20 Episode results for "Liberal Party"

Episode 016 - The 2019 Liberal Party of Canada Platform

Poutine Politics

59:19 min | 1 year ago

Episode 016 - The 2019 Liberal Party of Canada Platform

"The people listening to People Care Maureen sign all homework now we have listeners. I'm actually researching before we were just talking out of our house like I don't have to do the research on this thing what's the matter now Mike they finished yes it's definitely less I decided I don't I don't remember what the twenty eleven conservative platform was like so there's multiple websites that are tracking this sort of thing and I think the one where you get the fifty six with that website in particular is the fact that the goal was still met it just wasn't met in the timeframe okay okay same website yet end of Twenty fifteen k the election happened in October so they had roughly a little over two months from when the election happened to welcome twenty five thousand refugees so when say that seven percent was started partially completed right right which is which is fine because you can go seven percent they'll went because they started or they partially completed it rightly that'd be argued potentially that unforeseen circumstances as they were could have resulted in made promises cap for Conservatives yes so does that mean that if we don't do a fourth episode that's promises made promises kept for us as well no because we're actually you know that was made in the liberal platform was to what it was twenty five thousand Syrian refugees into the country by the hit the twenty five thousand refugees mark was in like February of two thousand sixteen so it's like they missed the mark by two months and I think it's the exchange seventy seventy K. the liberals kept fifty six percent seven percent margin very where they've started it but completed yes all four episodes series on the twenty eighth nineteen federal election platforms. I say possibly for because we still don't know whether we're going to have a conservative one in time but that's promises hollow meter website that is not failed it's like well they didn't fail they still brought the people in it just took a little longer than they thought it would so part of my issue consistent okay I guess I guess you're right dragging this out going through the platforms going why can't they make these easy all right in case you haven't realized we sent number from one of the things that I think this one's called the Paula meter or something I know there's one called poly meter and there's one called Trudeau meter one of the promises body right 'cause it's very hard for you to say oh well we're going to do this and the other parties completely against it that's going to be your main rival and you have to compromise are going over the Liberal Party of Canada platform which came out just at the end or the end of September Stock Tober it is called forward real in for the middle class I love it forward serious question do you think the middle class still exists yes I saw a lot about the middle class here and reason why I find it hilarious because if you look at how the federal elections look like it's going it's looking very much like load liberal majority again now there's one thing you want to bring up what do you think if the federal government has a majority government how many promises should they keep as a percentage as a percentage because keeping Louis of their platform being completed sure in the sense that in October of two thousand fifteen nobody thought that Donald Trump was gonna win the presidency. I just look at it I look at it from some point if you have a majority yes you have no reason why not if you have a minority government I'm not going to hold you to him accountable with more seats in they're gonNA lose the popular vote you've heard you think more seats okay. That's what I was I was thinking I I haven't looked at any as low hanging fruit right that they could have done that they chose not yeah we are I haven't I haven't gone over the whole list and the polls I guess recently some of the stuff that I like yes the popular vote they're definitely currently lower but I've heard that yes potential majority but at like maybe like one hundred and seventy how does PC's do that same website I think with Harper was like seventy yeah something like that both had seven percent margin of error and say that yeah I look at it like this was there a major downturn in the economy no well not really know and some of the one or the wasn't major major you could make the argument for oil but both parties face the same thing yes I say this because a lot of people bring up election promises broken I just I personally I don't have the time to go over everything and try and be like okay yeah did they actually complete that did they actually fail that are they being too hard on on they created a a separate tax rate for people that make over two hundred thousand dollars of income and then they decreased the second tax brackets if you have a Gulf twenty-five thousand bringing twenty two thousand or the date extended by four months it's a partial and I'll probably credit for partial if you're looking at things gently that does appear to have worked from the stats that exist on it okay raise taxes on the wealthiest one percent and cut taxes for the middle class okay so that's corporate tax rates get moving into the actual platform itself now so chapter one building a strong middle-class chapters I love it his in chapters that's on people making over roughly forty five thousand dollars of income a year they reduced that by a point and a half I haven't again I haven't really looked at those numbers to see whether it made a difference and it's hard to tell when you consider the fact that the deficits as they've been in government have not changed much now they go off of deficit versus GDP all the basic personal amount or basic personal exemption so that is the amount of income that you can make just baseline and not have to pay taxes on it so right now that number is just goes up almost three thousand dollars in one year so it can make a significant difference so three thousand dollars at fifteen percent because that's the tax the Conservatives had those tax decreases in place before the twenty fifteen elections so the liberals basically just carried on the conservative tax cuts does do a small business so that was consolidating a bunch of programs into one try and make it more efficient and technically pay out more money to people that are lower income that need it and a bit above twelve thousand dollars before I get to the fifteen thousand dollars per so it increases in very small amounts every year again generally based on the consumer price index or based on inflation in a single income situation if there's a spouse that doesn't work the spousal amount is based on the personal exemption amount which means that if you have a spouse that doesn't all right I gotta put my reading glasses on hold on a second okay so the first part first thing I want to cover is moving forward with more ratio balanced yes lowered small business tax rates whole businesses growing create more jobs the argument I would have with one is that technically of what's happening in Ontario and interior decides she'll federal election general for yes yeah well I mean we've got how many what percentage of the writings are in Ontario so from twenty twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen it only went up by a bow three hundred dollars so this is talking about making a jump worry for the middle class will make sure that people don't pay federal taxes on the first fifteen thousand dollars they earn okay so everybody that files taxes has policy updates and releases and stuff like that they just haven't put it into a concise document so who knows 'cause I want to chase all that down unless they do some sort of income testing thing where if your income goes above a certain amount you start to lose that benefit so that someone who makes a quarter who has more of an effect on his people that are lower income because if it's since since it's likely to be a situation of an increase in the basic personal exemption work your spousal credits going to go up to and that's where some additional tax savings can come in yes it is a good way to promote those in not in the the platform where they put on they did put on the next page there notes on what their plan will do for here's one that I wanNA compare against what the conservative policy release is on maternity benefits in this situation the liberals are saying you know the into the conservative nonexistent platform I mean okay I could argue that we could still technically do an episode on a conservative quote unquote platform is because there's been a lot of billion dollars a year doesn't get the same benefit as someone who makes thirty thousand dollars a year maybe they're gonNa make it complicated like that but I have my doubts they at one hundred forty seven right at the lowest level now they're saying here that it would you know this would save the average family nearly six hundred dollars a year so with a with a dual income situation yeah it could save that much either some five hundred what's that the exception Oh is that where is that when it's supposed to phase out look at you do more work than I am the maybe they should have put that in insert conservative votes in Quebec will tend to go to they'll flip flop bit but I mean right now it seems like more of that vote's going towards the block as opposed to towards the Conservatives and as a result together here's some of what we've been able to do in the last four years what did they do so the things that I highlighted was introduced Canada child benefit help families keep up with cost of living houses cost more like Toronto Vancouver Victoria so making it worse so yeah so if you're buying a house in the near future and your first time homebuyer Oh yeah sort of offsetting deduction to remove from your income so you're not gonNA get taxed on it so what the conservative policy release on this is is essentially introducing liberals can conduct come up the middle and it's Quebec before we got it all right so in the last four years we've accomplished so middle-class I won't even call mental upset lower yeah right it does help them in class to I mean technically it does help everybody but obviously anew non-refundable no is it a refundable tax credit either way it's a tax credit instead but it's a tax credit instead of just saying here's the money it's making us before with the first time homebuyer incentive which will give up to ten percent off the purchase price of their first home which is interesting because when this program was introduced only talking about five percent so now they're talking about ten percent that the government would pitch in ten percent and they're also saying that they would increase the qualifying value on a property to to nearly eight hundred thousand dollars in places where the being loans until they make at least thirty five thousand dollars and if their income falls below that level there payments are put on hold again good thing yes sometimes you get out of your chapter one in comparison to what the conservative plan will do like well 'cause there's lease their platform in their companion it's for everyone else it's it's terrible idea guess terribly anyways make sure families get more money right away by making maternity and parental benefits tax free okay so here's so it's a little extra something yes it's not it's a good thing it's a good thing it's not a great thing but it's a good thing better support for the mental health of workers any that you get from me I for maternity you're not gonNA pay any taxes on that that's your money here you go either it will not you don't report it on your taxes at all or if you do there will be some relation is a good thing better if it was eliminated many but right take any benefit that I can get yeah change the rule so that graduates won't have to start reaping I looked childcare I have to say the levels that are very very good job okay. Increasing Canada student grants for students going to school giving students two years after graduation the discount will they make a they make a tax credit because they don't want to give it to everybody Yech yeah I know why don't WanNa give it to everybody I want fits from fifteen to twenty six weeks seems reasonable Yep someone going through cancer treatment or something like that it's probably GonNa be longer than fifteen weeks red seal trades creating the Canada get to that point but there's a lot of issues that they're going through even before they get to you know potential breakdown that people need support for extending IAE sickness simpler and removing red-tape is always easy solution and I believe the liberal platform is the easiest solution which kind of makes me cringe saying that would include mental health is a specific elements of occupational health and safety that would be good in my line of work I see a lot of people get stressed out and have at least a third or pretty close to third of the writings on terrorism and that in the fact okay so yeah the Quebec is the same but Quebec votes block so they just throw their votes away get started on a tip before they had to start paying back student loans so to your to your interest free period whereas right now federally at six months and right now in Ontario it's zero you get out of a field and you simply don't make enough money right away it takes a while to start making money not everyone come becomes a doctor some like if you're helping working Canadians get ahead help workers transition to a new job we'll move forward with a career insurance benefit there's benefit will be available to people who've worked continuously for the same employer for five or more years it's something that's frowned upon by certain things away bells let's Talk Day it's actually good thing that's a very good for that whole arm of talking about anxiety and stress and things like that in apprenticeship service so it's a partnership between provinces territories businesses and the federal government to ensure that when someone goes through to get their apprentice anything to help out students considering the amount that they have to pay is going up and up and up and relative comparison not just because it's going up with in working as a reporter or something like that it can take some time or the field that you got that you studied in you there's just nothing there for you at the time so you have to get them out so it's always I'm skipping past the cell phone the bills part do you WanNa talk about the cell phone bills part they're gonNA lower it by twenty five percents good luck okay let's update yeah just like the Conservatives did it all Lord Price Neat and do anything Khalid off when the business closes so potentially give workers in additional roughly sixteen thousand dollars while they try in either get retraining or try and find other work a two seats so it's like they just barely squeak out a majority of potentially it could be it could like there's a lot of positive but I really strongly think that's going to be majority because those you know have those kinds of mental health issues that need that kind of support that kind of support is not necessarily available no no specify it's a feel good story yes investing in good middle class jobs chapter to chapter two earth for their apprenticeship and to get their to get their ticket that when they get their ticket there's jobs available for them when they're when they're going through aggressive in the sense that they want to implement it sooner rather than later the liberal one is probably the least aggressive because that's basically all they mentioned is that overworking apprentice ship that there will be placements available for them and it's basically providing financial incentive for employers to hire apprentices yeah and and the reason one okay but that that's good so people are living longer when it was I designed it wasn't designed for seventy five year olds find for the population is going to be it's a good incentive for for green commerce yes that's action was called helping candidates entrepreneurs seen grow so I mean I guess it's tied into the fact that it is hardy and liberal their farm carom visions and aspirations are relatively the same gap the NDP's one is probably more through Business Development Bank to provide up to two thousand entrepreneurs with as much as fifty thousand dollars to launch their new businesses. So I'm it doesn't really explain whether it's loans or grants in this situation awards national Pharma Care Stay tuned that's all I got on that Oh they just curiosity increase old age security by ten percent for seniors when they turned seventy five pay no paperwork here's your money cut the corporate tax paid in half by companies that develop and manufacturer zero emissions technology why why does it make you cringe if you're right wing you should be Albany red tape let's let's get a tax credit rather than giving the discount just me it's all over the place I think More Health for Entrepreneurs Create the candidate entrepreneur count administered. I love it that like Oh yes and Kenny yeah well especially since I yeah I think in this be grants and there's no there's nothing about how they're going to do right exactly great here's the money awesome let's do this small business owners or business owners general but it you know it's like it's an environmental thing that's just thrown in the middle of the of the Middle Class section of the platform classics because that's how perfect it felt to me to make sure that the infrastructure that people in communities need is built we will require that all provinces and territories identifying approve all of their we at a Ford and Pallister so Manitoba and Ontario because they've they've essentially both said that they're not going to accept or they're like they're holding off not economy non climate air not green let's throw them that one all right I had to highlight this one because this is the dig at ESPEC- longterm infrastructure priorities within the next two years funds that aren't designated for specific projects by the end of two thousand twenty one will be reinvested directly in communities through I know growing up I just you know you heard about people going on stresses be thought the mental breakdowns and things like that yeah and it's not even it's yeah it can take a long time for someone to on accepting money from the federal government from the carbon tax that the money that's supposed to go into Green initiatives for the one I think the part of the reason I did highlight that one and I think it does come up a bit later in the platform was tied into the coups MMA national Pharma Care I'm not going to get into the Pharma care when again this'll be the third time that we talked about it ever all three all three and EP Green can do climate change initiative from a conservative point of view it's and let me make sure we're clear in this Andrew Scheer is introducing his own car except that money okay then we'll just give it to the municipalities instead Yep sucks to suck you know I get there's a difference between really I I really am wondering why don't go I know I know it's it you know the people oh terrible trade deal and Blah Blah Blah and I'm like okay again the ships that if you're going into field that are trades fields which is a sector that needs more people into you WanNa give those people's much incentive as possible the top of the federal gas tax fund I read so bypass the provincial governments that are playing ball and give the money right to the municipalities people who support liberal and people that support conservative but you know sometimes sometimes you can work together come January first Alberta's supposed to be paying the federal carbon taxes well and I'm sure they are going to try and do the same thing and say well we're not gonNA spend we're not gonNA whoa sometimes the thing balls meals about the conservatives being against the carbon tax the carbon tax is probably the single best way that you can our schools and hospitals and things like that okay so I read this and I'm like this is why this is in there is perfect I have to read it word for word Etienne's to reach net zero emissions why are you consulting Canadians. I don't know you consult experts experts what are we said time and time again because they exist so trying to broker even at even trying to broker a free trade between provinces within Canada but then also one part they do put in here the US MCA or whatever you WANNA call it the Nafta Nafta two point Oh and just the sense that I'm going to cut myself off facebook eventually do some research to reading and I guess the third part is it technically hasn't been ratified by the government of Canada or the government in the United States yet so really doc was in the title supporting more trade at home and around the world so this section talks about trying to break trade barriers between the provinces the negotiations have been done are done but it's not in place yet so anything that's happening right now has nothing to do with has the only G. Seven country with free trade agreements with other g seven nations all right good press good job okay that one gets a golf club gay the website that's just facts and I love doing like here's your fact shut up the problem is that doesn't work with a lot of people I know tax is just not calling it a carbon tax so what do you do if you if you if you missed that one you can go back and listen to episode eight which is a real plan to protect our environment and yes the question don't tell me to build a history program now moving on they're gonNA plant two billion trees yeah oh but the go to we consulted average everyday on Tehran's average everyday Ontarians don't know enough about education themselves to be able to provide a knowledgeable and reasonable suggestion as to what should be in the Caribbean Elam in any curriculum don't listen to us we're stupid I'm an average down -tarian I don't know enough about the education side I wanna say to five maybe six protecting our environment and moving our economy forward there's actually Oh yes okay so this so she this new Nafta like if you're gonNA come out somebody comes with facs seen some of the stuff that people go after you on I'm just like your tool I don't remember if this was in the green platform at the one thing that the liberals put in there was that they would set legally binding five year milestones based on the advice of experts and consultations with yeah that's my argument here's the facts read the chapter three in which the big bad wolf blows down the House of Straw is there I think only arrests that have burned down because really that doesn't happen as much as it should especially with the amount of forest I know that there's English I know that there's math I know that there's drama I know that there's arts I know that there's music I know that there's geography and other sister like I know I know what the different subjects are it's like okay trees are not carbon-offsetting as much as people there's no but it's that shouldn't be your folk if that's what you're pushing you need to go in such and Blah Blah Blah almost hurt when I went over it they it was pretty good like I was like Oh this is completely wrong because when I do my research as far as the popcorn's there wasn't a major downtown energy transition let's touch that one with a fifty foot pole install up to five thousand charging stations across and if it wasn't for the fact that I don't WanNa don't go down that well I don't save it and often times when I go on facebook with people I just I throw them facts I literally send them to like the flooding happens because the wastewater system gets overloaded because of a huge rainstorm is the government going to buy your house like is that how they're going to assist you relocate let's just like when they relocate the houses for I was I guess I mean they're going to have an they're going to have an action plan on it it's been done before hi protecting Canada's natural legacy yes this is one of those ones that has been getting credit the amount of wildfires that we are having a lot of those areas are kind of left barren wastelands and either nothing regrows or it it's kind of like that as well there was a lot of here's what we need to do by twenty thirty here's what we need to do by twenty fifty so this is kind of this this is the liberal same same kind of stuff so the the great part was like what was it three days or four days after after the platform comes out Elizabeth May's like we're going to build ten billion trees it's just okay it's a really long time for stuff to regrow and so if we could be encouraging it sure but yes I mean to be like we're GONNA play at two billion trees okay okay just recently yes okay let's let's we need we need a little bit more than two billion trees low cost National Flood Insurance Program because most insurance companies don't cover and to assist homeowners with potential relocation for those at the highest risk of repeat flooding but assisting those homeowners if they're in if they're in like are sorry not very low because I've been looking at a model three not that I'm buying anytime soon but I like to look let's not maybe a few whatever it's not flood plain but if they're in a location that let's say near a river or it's near waste let's say with what happens in Toronto where the flood problem for insurance well okay so part of the part of part of what they put in here was a when it comes to flooding is they want to complete all the flood maps in Canada and then develop a national action plan sized as well because this was the whole if in case you missed it Trudeau did a photo op where he was canoeing this was something recently and we've five thousand dollar rebate that was introduced in twenty eight teen no twenty nine hundred was this year's budget for you trust the scientists the scientists thank a scientist yeah thanks scientists trusted they're the ones that did the church this is like the education thing on change they're just going to deal with the band aid solution to the problem yeah okay this was a small one but I'll say it anyway so we will invest every dollar earned from transmitting expansion project in candidates welcome back to Putin politics Canadian issue server cheese skirts my name's Adam my name is Mike and it is number three in a possible or buying a new EV. But you only receive that grant up to a certain price like I don't know it's I know I know the prices of them are not very hard it's a feel good story right exactly so if you ever want to know what it's like to be homeless cocaine demise now you kill me like this isn't fair okay read listen to my podcast you're the one in the newspapers all right all right fine fair enough so it was. There was an avid canoe list that's the right term I think right yes it's canoeist not canoe a canoe were that ness anyways it's canoe so when he was were people were criticizing him because he's like he's he's paddling the canoe backwards and like okay just a photo op who cares doc the drug bright good what I okay now what I will say in in here is they do mention about replanting for tripped one of Canada's national or provincial parks including camping accommodations and travel bursary of up to two thousand dollars for kids to go camping expanding the learn to camp program which I didn't even know existed shows how much I pay attention government move forward with giving seventy thousand less privileged children and their families and up to four nine Cortana Trans Canada highway and other major road networks they're going to provide a ten percent rebate on used zero emission vehicles up to a maximum value of two thousand dollars so right now there is yes you were absolutely I love camping like I do this no but that's what you're doing leads anymore g wonder why does have to do with climate change in the fact that it's already problem in certain places I don't know what you're talking about but it's not just the climate change issue let's address younger you're the English dude I know he can walk news technically is not an English word take that we played scrabble net zero emissions by two thousand fifty so this is one of the things where you were like it's twenty nineteen I'm talking about where we're going to do by two thousand fifty which I said Okay we'll let the green platform was then for a like the only issue I have with is like flooding result like oftentimes these these major floods are often can be attributed to climate change but they're doing very little to address the I mean it's doing for photo like who doesn't know this stuff it's like the Green Party photo op the company he was younger because his father low bar bar meet after four we're getting they're building a stronger Canada likes these titles Good money for that yes yeah you're not wrong ban on single use plastics. Okay we've covered that one too and we both kind of think that that's the views Vancouver and Halifax as shipyards why are they gonNA use Halifax Irving Irvine does that have anything to do with politics coming out and recently carrier no no cough roll or anything like that you want to cover okay it do they talk about the coastguard and they're about the witch the coastguard because I don't know where he yeah requiring all judges in Canada undertake mandatory training on sexual assault law I can yes do you have anything else under the gun they need to keep these records now for lifetime which is basically a long gun registry without being called the long gun registry so I mean take that for what is it temporarily suspended firearms licenses for people who are suspected of posing a danger to themselves or others including their partners or kids do that I don't know what the long gun registry so again I guess for people that already own guns yeah there isn't GonNa be a registry for those people but the fact that Bill C seventy one says Oh you know although stores that sell guns and sell guns basic personal data from a platform like facebook or twitter or whatever where your information is potentially being used for advertising purposes No how personal data is being you everyone importing ammunition to show valley firearms license again good thing okay highlighted this one because of our episode on Bill C seventy one so owners for something they yet you're just taking their volume their guns hired good luck with that and investing gun prevention that's the part they like yeah and but they're actually investing in prevention okay so I did highlight some of that stuff and I was like I didn't know if I wanted to be doing the stuff comes up because they didn't read the platform from the pages I didn't I don't remember seeing anything about the coastguard there inches in the coastguard and shockingly there okay well I guess I guess it's in there because maybe people don't realize that it already happens yeah that's what I would say yeah it's not talking about Hof Norman Sh what have we got first responders vesting some stuff which back program buyback program that's good yeah so no no like the Banding Banning Rifles you're you're just punishing legal place and they're going to expand it to include correctional workers by the end of twenty twenty sounds good to me the digital charter being able to withdraw remove in a race the grant program for first responders which provides lump sum tax free payment up to three hundred thousand dollars to family members of first responders who have died as a result of their duties so that was something that was already in there's only so much that you can talk about when it comes to veterans but it's a very small section when you consider how negatively a lot of people have viewed the liberals used including knowing who has access to it and creating some sort of registries that you'd be able to see who has your information stance on veteran's even though they've done a fair bit to try and reverse the changes approval for most common disability applications including depression PTSD and arthritis among others support for families move forward with it with building new purpose built accessible and affordable housing units we will support this work with an additional investment of fifteen million dollars a year fifteen million dollars doesn't sound we do that which is good because that's what they the policy said that they should do in doing that right great yeah like providing more funding to the CBS a into the record specific but it is something they already do yep okay provide free legal aid to survivors of sexual assault and intimate partner violence again yes Oldham is that it's been cut into this like ten seconds soundbite and groups like Ontario Proud candidate proud and such are using that and it's like that's how he feels about veterans because it's an answer that a politician gives but he doesn't avoid he doesn't avoid the question entirely but he doesn't answer the question entirely hopefully it's fold well I don't see anything wrong with what they're trying to do I think it's very good okay good stuff supporting veterans and their families so mental and they want to make sure that the same pitfalls that the Europeans fell we didn't fall into so it's a similar idea so there is a blueprint out there that they could follow and baby steps will say yeah which is still better than nothing yes the problem the problem I see especially from the die-hard conservative supporters online because we see because the whole lifetime lifetime registration necessity Leo by weapons so it's so protecting the rights of hunters and farmers by not bringing back the meanwhile you can actually go on Youtube find the entire ten minute you can watch that whole town hall on Youtube but you can find the ten minute segment that has to do not only with support is in their give veterans up to three thousand dollars in free counseling services before a disability claim is required for disability benefits before with automatic the national employment and Training Support Service for veterans so again just trying to get veterans back into the or giving them assistance to get back into the workforce and then for homeless veterans moved ear for Organization for LGBTQ organizations pro a Pancanadian Pan Canadian Twenty four seven mental health crisis hotline this with this individual asking his question and Trudeau giving him a full answer not necessarily the most satisfactory a lot. There's a lot of veterans we don't have this massive arm yeah it's not like the American military no for sure the veterans say I mean I get line is they always like to they're always like to quote that one line from a from a town hall that Trudeau did in Edmonton I think in two thousand sixteen thinking about veterans I have no idea no idea because he hasn't really well now mind you he's not exactly getting the same media coverage sing could very much but that's small little part of our veterans are asking too much was like two seconds of a seven minute answer and that's what people focus on yet and it wasn't politically fifteen the ban has been reduced from a light from lifetime down to three months and so they wanted basically go for uh-huh amend the Criminal Code banned the practice of conversion therapy I can that's a good thing very good thing and the discriminatory blood donation band so that happened during the conservative government from twenty seven to two thousand fifteen the service it a lot to really harm the veterans the liberals done have taken I should've been done improve improve equality in Canada's job market man I feel like we've been talking about that for like twenty years so you're not seeing it a moving working with provinces and territories to make sure sexual and reproductive health medications are covered under national farm here okay so there's the pharmacy thing I mean they should be similar to what happened with if remember there was a big problem with air miles and things like that no I actually in candidate but you're a big problem with that when I came out we possibly have said something even better than what Trudeau or sheer has said in in in support of veterans and veterans services and things like that but he's not getting the media covered I think they're just saying that they're going to finish what they started because they got down to what they got it down to three months from lifetime but it is in to make it sound better yeah right like I'd rather be like if he says that okay at least I know where he stands yeah right like how does what is since two thousand fifteen the blood so I guess earlier than that gay men have not been able to donate blood if they've had sex with other men since twenty down whatever your I agree in the sense that it's low hanging fruit and it should have been like hey you know that that lifetime ban boom we're just getting rid of it it's over it's done there's a French college there's collage barral in Sudbury but there is not a French university strengthening parliament and public institutions was the one on where he was asked a question by a veteran and it's that line where he said that our veterans are asking too much the wrong thing to say I won't deny that but the what are you going to say if you're a business that has more than twenty employees you you you have to be like fifty fifty yeah good luck you can't legislate that if there's going to be a farmer care system should be pretty simple funding for LGBTQ groups so preventing providing an investment of ten million dollars and community newspapers can access affordable technology to develop and distribute local content. Good we're paying for it why shouldn't it be open just one thing that they should have got done you're not wrong hanging fruit just why would you why would you waste the time getting into three months just to complete a race I'm going to guess for all of the French People Ontario especially the ones that potentially feel more comfortable sending their kids or they themselves going to a French university there's got okay I would say there's gotta be more to it than that in the sense that the reason it got to where it is is maybe because maybe maybe we should blame the scientists on this one government's mandate assuming that it's a majority government not a minority in the last four years we've invested nearly two billion dollars to build your parent grade public water systems in first nations communities now they should be able to speak both official languages especially in Supreme Court and have to deal with all issues from Canada yes okay and then this was another dig at PC government and Ontario and help assistant attorney general we will implement the recommendations of the McClellan review oops because a little party more than six hundred thousand francophones in Ontario better access post-secondary education we'll move forward with the province to help establish the university two zero Francais one it's such low hanging fruit look this is easy but maybe the nation they were given it's like look we have to you can't just say everybody's fine you gotta do some sort of Okay anyways arts and culture requires CBC Radio Canada to open its digital platform said journalism startups. Because there's a lot of those I five we're not we're not quite at the house made of bricks yet building a better future with indigenous peoples okay so this section again not the most eliminating the use of whip and party lists to give the speaker greater freedom and calling on members who wish to speak I like that too because it kind of just potentially opens up parliament's a little bit more who I mean Yes yes but how more progress and yes exactly and how's the government going to do that really like are you going to go because it was you know you did the right thing for your local writing which doesn't always happen exactly standing up for your constituents or even more than her constituents really standing up for you when you when you don't do what you're told they're really good at making sure that that's encouraged Yeah Oh oh oh hopes chapter and say okay we're just going to completely eliminate that ban it's like hey had sex with a guy yesterday you can give blood today they said they're gonNA do yes so those two thousand fifteen platform it's not correct answer it was a more truthful answer which is a problem with Polish have Polish tell me something that's bad truthfully then oh like the average person sees that in the news and it's like they're not doing anything for the indigenous people because this one reserve has a huge issue and I'm not denying that it's a huge issue those things that the government was going to cut and they lost an MP over it the person the m the MP the only french-speaking MPP interesting narrows has this has this big issue with mercury in the water and and other and other contaminants and it's it's that's been a big thing in the news and so people that would have had huge benefits of a Franklin Teheran University Hill has cut the funding. I'm glad that that person's up down to yes do it in a concrete plan not something that's often twenty thirty twenty twenty nine one eight hundred eighty s they have to do it within their mandate two years within yes exactly within the next eligible when it comes to indigenous peoples issues going to do what I can't hear eliminate all long-term drinking water advisories on reserve by twenty twenty one yes she's still she's still votes but she doesn't keep up with it like I do and that's okay I'm so I'm torn in the sense that I know that there is so much that we need unfortunately scheduling sucks because I want to get it from his point of view because I don't know enough right and my wife my wife is indigenous and we've we've talked about this kind of stuff a little bit she's relatively non-political Okay and you know what could oester sure indigenous control over the development and delivery of services I I understand self-determination sorry go ahead yeah so the problem is and like mentioned earlier where it's not really it's not publicized very well but you hear stories about places like grassy narrows Zimbalist at protecting and promoting official languages I think the only thing I highlighted on that one was about appointing only bilingual judges to the Supreme Court I think that makes sense I mean they're in government but because it exists they're doing nothing I disagree with the do nothing come without me facts right don't say you're doing nothing so you're not doing you know maybe for MP's to actually support their constituents instead of you know I'm going to tell the party line all the time the party line perfect like a tribe or something like that but there's there are a group of people within the indigenous the Canadian indigenous community as a whole that is I feel like there are people within the indigenous community themselves whether it's elders whether it's whether it's council members or anything like that that are sometime I feel like there is a small a small amount and there are a group and not like understand when they argue that the government is is not doing enough because they probably aren't they most definitely aren't yet doing enough yes and then there and then there's the maybe the the maybe we made a mistake portion of the platform the roles of the minister of just potentially causing issues that the people are not seeing and they continue to blame it on the government so I always looked at it like this assistant overcome I have intention chance to beforehand to talk to my stepfather about this 'cause that's right and to do to to to help bring the indigenous population up from everything that they've endured and suffered but at the same this children make up less than eight percent vol children in the country but account for more than half of all children in foster care in private homes yep putting strong and did always going to have people take things you're always gonNa have corruption and whatever you WANNA call it however because it's seeping in so it's going to take some time so you have to look at it from the standpoint are they doing enough but depends on your perspective it's the major big things that it looks like they're trying to do in the liberal government that I like okay let me see here critical infrastructure needs housing feel takes advantage of their position and I understand like you'd like you just said about the government not doing enough tennis academies make sure indigenous communities directly benefit from major resource projects well if we're going to run pipelines through their territories maybe they should get some benefit or things like the there ancestoral homelands get there's really no argument about that at all except for that there are certain things that the UN has recommended like under which local parties planning to put into place yes yes I would yes absolutely I agree hey that's right legit argument nothing and which party proposing to shut up yeah continue to work with indigenous communities too the next six pages so two pages on supporting first nations priorities supporting nuit priorities and then supporting Mateen nation priorities they are literally just copies of each other except where one a fire which is still up in the air as to whether we're not gonNA whether we're going to tap into those natural resources right yeah you know what maybe they should benefit from the fact that we're taking natural resources admits children so yeah this was I feel like I knew this but even still to read the number was kind of shocking so and did made sense those are the things that when I would say they're not doing enough that's where I'm coming from okay when I hear people say about well I feel like that's in there just because of you know trump rhetoric oh for sure transfer seized assets help others prepare for climate related disasters gay yeah okay Expanding Canada's role in multilateral organizations like NATO in the United Nations wow almost there I didn't think it was going to take this long I knew it was gonna take this long yeah so renew candidate's commitment to peacekeeping efforts they got a roller coaster out of it transition away from the Indian Act yeah okay so that was the path forward we can continue to support indigenous like processes when we're talking about immigration were trained in bringing frilled yes skilled workers educated people rather than bringing in you know now just bringing in the random Joe's revisory and things like that there it's a work in progress it's going to take a lotta time especially with like mercury and things like that that's not easy to remove no yes and I would also say that the people the people groups that commit grave human rights abuses seemed to very rarely actually get you know go through the whole process there's the International Criminal Court or whatever they tend to die before overthrowing Gadhafi over there and governments tend not to be definitely a big issue when you consider the fact that there's still people especially in northern communities that are blaming in like tents or or houses that have like tarps for walls and stuff the people stop it yes stop complaining about helping people yes okay it's not people that live here but seriously get a conscience basically similar points what already covered so I'm going to skip pesos and get to chapter six so securing cans place in the world we're almost there okay then the numbers come in

Canada Canada Ontario Maureen federal government Liberal Party of Canada French People Ontario Mike Donald Trump cocaine Trudeau Albany Kenny facebook US Franklin Teheran University Hi
Episode 109  Liberal Fiberal

Sandy and Nora talk politics

46:15 min | 3 months ago

Episode 109 Liberal Fiberal

"Hey Sandy. Hey Nora. That because of someone really hilariously mixed up. On on twitter this week, and that person mixed us up and also wanted to deliver a fuck you to nora, and so was like Sandy Fuck, you and I was like well. Anyway then we learned that some people can't tell voices apart. That doesn't make any sense I listen to our voices a lot and they don't sound similar. No, that's just. That doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever get it together, people. Yeah I guess I should make the apology like I'm sorry for Calling Chomsky one hundred years old. How old is he? I don't know he's like ninety eleven. Should be more accurate. Accurate. The this individual was not super impressed with a appearance that Sandy had in Canada and lost with you. I was not on Canada land last week. Nor was on Kennedy land last week, and it was a fantastic episode. Actually No, I, thank you, thank. You got to hear you on that. Yeah, I really like I really like having the break from this conversation that you and I have Jesse Brown into it because it's. Really Different? It is different. Yeah. It's good, okay, We have some people to thank and I will do that, but do you want to like introduce this Cornucopia of topics today or how? How should we start this? Sure God this week was the most I. Don't know like I. Actually I don't Wanna qualify this week as anything. Because twenty twenty has a lot in store for us, and I'm not going to try to say that it's the most this that or whatever we have a few things to talk about this week. You mentioned some stuff that's going on in Quebec that English Canada hasn't picked up on yet. A bit of a metoo movement happening. They're gonNA tell us a little bit about that. We're also GONNA. Talk a little bit of a stupid fucking letter that was published in Harper's magazine from a bunch of liberal people saying that I don't know the black lives matter protests. run the danger of. censoring everyone. Don't know what the point of that Shit was whatever we'll get into that. And then we're going to talk about. We. We've talked about. We've for a couple of weeks and we're not going to just talk about we, but we're going to talk about like. How liberals operate with these kinds of organizations that they have? Connections with and hopefully give you some tidbits that will be helpful to your political illiteracy bullet. Oh boy I'm going to thank some people before we get started. So this week it's again another really amazing week. People's support and so thank you so much to Emma Keoni yen. Leeann Jena. katharina Alex Riley Marina. Jenna Xia Madeline Ryan Karen and. Philip, Sam Michelle Pamela Matt. Naomi, Sarah Robin Adrian Anna, Ryan, Rachel Barbara Ben John Mike and Ben. Thank you so so so so much. Thank you, okay. So what should we start with Quebec me, too? Yes, let's start to come back. So you know Quebec has this like wall between it and the rest of Canada, that is you know. Language plays a giant role in why this wall exist between Quebec in Canada, but it's not just language. It's also culture because Quebec. Has this incredible star system where they have celebrities and musicians and artists that the rest of Canada has no idea about because they're famous back, and they're not necessarily famous the rest of Canada and so. The news has been very quiet outside of Quebec of the fact that there this incredible new wave of metoo denouncements happening and it started on Instagram, focusing on abusive Tattoo artists in Montreal and the wave that has generated is is incredible. I mean this morning I was reading through. Someone's list of all the people who've been denounced sometimes at the denunciations are like two times five times ten people coming forward, and it took me honest to God ten minutes to read the whole list. Wow, that's how many names are on this thing. and. There's a lot of people who are are well known artists Lake Bernard atmos- and Alex Nevsky and There's personalities like Nike more who was denounced by Nolan and by a couple of other or one other at least artist. And, so it's just like it's hard to know where this is going to go. If it's going to be another set of people kind of yelling into the void and saying that this person was abusive, or here's my story, or whatever, but a lot of people have been dropped by their record labels. There's been people who've already had some consequences faced by. You know situations where those like up to ten stories, similar stories of of. Of someone's abusive behavior, and it's just so puzzling to me that this has not been talked about outside of Quebec really I don't really understand why. Journalists have not picked this up and I. Mean Quebec journals can be writing about this in English, and some have been, but by and large the scale of how massive this moment really is in Quebec. It's incredible and you know. A friend of mine was saying that it's surprising a little. Little bit that that that sexism seem so rampant. There's a lot of left wing names as well left wing bloggers and activists that have been that have been denounced and my friend was saying. It's really surprising that in a province that's like so feminist, and we're women have more rights than than than in the rest of Canada that you'd see these kinds of behaviors, still perpetuating themselves in in in spaces, especially progressive spaces and it's. It's actually an interesting kind of flip side to when you do have more rights and more empowerment around around women around women's issues that a lot of times it's feminist men that are still being shitty and abusive and hiding behind the politics that they put forward. So that's my little summary of what's going on in Quebec, and if you are interested in finding out more I would suggest that you check out, Montreal Gazette or CBC Montreal. Ct Montreal and global you might get some stories on on on the latest in the in the metoo allegations I mean. It's pretty fucked up I. mean these media organizations have? Like national scope, so it's not like the couldn't report that also I'm as a national story if it's something so huge, so I don't know like this. I'm. Pretty disappointed that that isn't being reported elsewhere outside of Quebec. And some of the names are famous outside of Quebec. Waco, one of the guys and simple plan was just announced as being abusive and so I. think that it's a real good sign that that media is not actually able to talk about sexual assault in a very sophisticated way, and so the excuse that it's hits back. This isn't necessarily relevant for readers. Toronto British Columbia or Regina or whatever I. Don't I don't buy that because these are also waves like it's happening on Instagram, and anyone can see it because that's where most of the denunciations are happening, and if we don't talk about sexual assault, we don't talk about. People, finding their voice, and and being able to speak the things that happened to them. Then people don't know that it's happening and I mean of course you know as we I think that people are becoming politically sophisticated in this moment I just think that it's really important to connect that back to. The issues of safety insecurity that we've been talking about for so long in terms of defending the police and so on. These these stories are definitely connected to that issue as well and I think we we deserve. A public I. To you. The rampant sexual assaults and gender based violence that people face daily. That are not being taken care of by literally any publicly funded system appropriately right now, so you know It is something that we really should be talking about part of this as well as the ability of someone to have that free speech to denounce someone, and to not feel like there's going to be repercussions for talking about an experience that that they that they had, but there's a letter of people that are really on the same page What free speech early actually actually means. Sandy, what do you? What do you think of the harpers letter on free? My God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Look okay, so, nor was on Canada land this week or last week. By the time you folks listen to this, and it's a good episode. You should take a listen when you said I. Am I am my first thought is that I'm very annoyed that you made me read this letter? I would like to. because. I read the letter because people kept texting me about it and then finally. Someone. May cousin was like you read this week? Fuck it talking about it. I know it's going to be bad like I already. I can smell I can taste I. Can Gut check that? This is GonNa be fucking terrible and it did not disappoint. No it did not support. Several Canadians on that list, a couple Canadians on that list. and. It's a list of like elite. Writers and academics and I. Don't know famous people. Who who are on as the letter I think itself talks, but I can't remember it says something like all sides of the political spectrum whatever it says like look. The point of the letter is basically to say hey, so trump and his ilk ferry bad true. Protesters out on the street. Try To do good things great, but let's be careful. Be careful to to make sure that the protesters out in the street and those who are calling for justice. Don't become what trump is just canceling. Everybody out here canceling editors canceling writers canceling people who just want to have their opinions known canceling bucks. Terrible don't do it. This illiberal! Is How the letter describes it, and I actually think the lasting negative effect of the letter is going to be. That concept, a concept of liberalism, being discussed more and becoming more concrete. I've seen a lot of people. Start using that term posts this letter coming out, which is so fucking stupid. That's the point of the letter I suppose I. Don't know, and it is absolutely ridiculous for all sorts of reasons one. The false equivalence between a government. Making choices about what people can say and what they can't the trump administration, or let's let's talk about say Ford. Doug Ford in Ontario. Make decision that if certain campuses. Are Against Free speech quote, unquote like student unions have particular types of events or refuse to have certain types of events then he won't fund the school to the same level as he would have like. That is a government. Clamping down on the type of speech that organizations and people. Can. Engage in and making that equivalent to black lives matter protesters out on the street. Saying Hey, stop. US This. Is just so laughable like the people who are protesting don't have power, and that's why they're protesting and to say that those things are equivalent is ridiculous. So okay I like made that point on twitter. kind of like I. Just think it's the most obvious points I didn't make it. Very intensely, but someone was like. You know you're being real. Free willfully ignorant like this is actually about. The power of those protesters to then come together and. Canceled someone like an O. J. K. Rowling and stop her from. Being you saying what she wants to say, it's like. CAN ANYBODY CANCEL A billionaire? If I have the magical power to cancel billionaire and I just didn't know yet. Please let me know because I have things to do. You know like nobody's canceling anybody out here like to say that people should be able to say the most reprehensible things about human beings in our society and faces zero response to. It is like what the fuck. What am I supposed to do just like? Sit here, being like yeah, JK, rallying transphobic, but can't say anything in the name of St Speech Fuck you if I do I, have free speech. Do I not have the free speech to respond to her? I should, but then I think the more important takeaway which I. wrote on twitter because again that thing that I just said, I feel like it's so obvious. It's like a free speech. Being curtailed by government, like actual power is a real thing me. Saying to Nora I don't like what you said Nora being like. I hate you. Stop silencing me is like ridiculous. You spoke back CEOS. Silencing you, so I'm not silencing you. That's what the fuck. I think the more important thing to recognize is that? You can't counts culture like this idea that this is something new is such bullshit. It's not new. It has always existed that people have experienced consequences for holding certain ideas or being a certain type of. I know this because I have been negotiating the risks of saying certain things, all of my life for fear of losing out on opportunities because I've always known that the things the ideas that I, have could be a risk. In certain spaces, the identity that I hold could be a risk in certain spaces, and I mean God. We have so many fucking examples of that like. Let's think about Anita Hill and like how difficult it was for her to say the truth of what happened to her at the hands of Clarence, Thomas and what? The risks that. resulted in for her career, and how people tried to make her into this figure that was reprehensible at the time that she came out and said this man sexually assaulted me. Here's the RUB like this type of thing has always existed for certain types of people saying certain types of things. power has always had the ability to cancel us. A woman is asserting that she should not be sexually assaulted in the workplace will fuck it. That's too. That's too much. Let's just fire her or a person exists is trans. We don't understand that. Let's just fire them. Do you know what I mean like? There's always been the ability to cancel people. It's just now become more democratized and the elites. They don't like that because now. Power is shifting such that they don't have as much anymore. And they could feel the consequences of saying some reprehensible. fucking shit and we are changing society such that what we deem reprehensible is shifting. In in a good way, and sometimes in a bad way, but in a good way mostly, and and that means that some people who have been pretty comfortable with being able to espouse like really disgusting fucking ideas forever. Now they're going to be held to account tough shit. The rest of us have already always dealt with that fuck you yeah, think that the the most important part about the issue for me and you know as you said like being forced to read this letter as like why I didn't need to read this letter. Because I know what it's going to say, it's going to say nothing. It's going to be incoherent and it's going to put forward a straw man. Man Argument and then debate that Straw man, and you'll be like what the fuck was the point of that, and then all these fucking apparently enlightened people have signed onto this ridiculous senseless like literally meaningless statement that tries just defend liberal democracy with the moment that we're in as you said is I think the most important thing to take from this free speech debate that this isn't at all about free speech. This is about the end of the American Empire. And the end of liberal democracy as its as it has operated in the postwar period, we are finally reaching that end period where things are falling apart, and it's not of course the least aided by the the pandemic I mean the pandemic ravaging the United States while at the same time, people have had like this opportunity to reflect and organized movements and and black people are still getting killed by police, and so then you've got this. coordinated incredible historic level resistance in the street that has also not exacerbated the pandemic. Pandemic suits, not even something that the elites can hope will just die out because of the pandemic, and so that is an incredible amount of power that average people have taken into their hands, and this letter is simply a reflection of their anxiety that they're losing their supremacy within liberal democracy and I love that you talked about this idea that ill. Liberalism is going to be like the next thing that they try to make because it really does. It's the defining characteristic of our time. What did liberalism do it? Balanced extreme of? And found kind of location in the center to try and. Pleasing everybody would be maybe the PR way to do it, but. To explain it, but instead it like papers over all of the the cracks within society, and allows this this liberal myth that everything is actually okay, and if you're complaining, you're just this fringe. Voice from one side of the political spectrum whether it's the left or the right well now we're seeing mass movements refused to accept this centrist Pablum, and it is so wonderful and the idea that Berry Weiss is like crying because she knows she's going to be. Guillotine, forty, years I'm. I'm down with that. I love it. I love that. These folks are sounding an alarm because it's like Yeah J., K. Rowling, you WanNa fucking say that like we can like women menstruate, and you're. You're willing to die on that hill. Cool. Will Bear you their? Whatever? Okay speaking of liberalism. Well exactly it's a perfect pivot because actually everything that we just talked about both like the freedom to denounce someone for causing you harm whether it's physical or emotional or sexual harm. Versus, the connection hiding these things to promote liberalism, or all wrapped up in the next topic and I just want to present it in this way Cassini I. Don't know if you saw my twitter feed. But. One of the bands that played we day in like two thousand and seventeen was a band called Headley. you know Headley yes, I have heard. I have heard of Headley. They've had, have you? Haven't they? Yeah. We. Lately no fuck, what do I? Know exactly because because they the the front leader of lead singer was like a was roundly denounced as being a sexual Predator so. Yeah no I recall them. Yeah, so they they did we day. They did. A couple of years ago before they were denounced play probably the year that they were now. Yeah and so all these threads. All the way through right into into we. So why do we WanNa talk about we for what is technically a third time. Why are that important God? They're not I mean they are they, are they are they are but I do WanNa. Make the very tiny point very tiny point that remember remember I saying. All of these people are out in the street. Protesting to defend the police and politicians are like. Should we? Is there something going on that we should pay attention to? And this we day stuff comes up I. mean there's no protest about it is very important. Politicians have acted so quickly. They've passed a motion in the house. Demanding an ethics review and so on, it's just very. Interesting how quickly politicians can move on this issue and rightly they should. It seems like there's some weird shit going on, but when our fucking service, it's supposed to keep us safe insecure. It's fucking killing black and indigenous people. Nobody gives a shit. Okay, so let's just go into why it's important as you ask. When I think is important for us to discuss today that I haven't really seen talks elsewhere. Is How normal this is! What's happening with me? I think that we're really seeing is it's like God? The liberals have such connections with this organization that it seems like this organization really functions. As an extension of the Liberal Party it provides a mechanism for the Liberal Party's strategy of celebrity to be a part of their. Of their political strategy to get votes or to become popular. It seems to provide directly people who are connected to the liberal. Party's political at apparatus funds money access to audiences. And it provides the Liberal Party with some sort of like. Sh shelter like some sort of like a place where they can literally grab youth. WHO become in without perhaps without any sort of partisan. Goals and they can link them directly to the Liberal Party. And create long lasting relationships that will benefit the party at the ballot box years later and I think it's very important for people to understand is that? Is Neither new nor weird. The Liberal Party does that it's like one of their strategies in all sorts of different sectors, and so what you're hearing about, we is really fucked up and you might know. People who've been involved in we I know there's people who I'm connected you. Have told me some stories that they're years, involved in the organization or free the children and it's like. Yeah. There's a lot of this stuff going on. This is not the only place The liberals employed this type of strategy. Like not even at all like this is, this is the thing is is that it is so ubiquitous that you know we're already seeing that. We has its tentacles all over different kinds of programs that the liberals also have their tentacles all ten to together so I was doing some research last night I mean research I was googling and like you know whatever and I found that like we became an official partner of Canada one fifty. And they had this like really. Cringe. Campaign called. We are Canada and like I. Don't remember any of that. Maybe they targeted only high school students. Maybe it was. Only to promote their we day, like I didn't see the amount of money that was given to that. That was something that I found by searching to see if like Melanesia Lee, who is the minister heritage had any kind of connections to the we charity, and and so on top of the millions of dollars that they received in government contracts sorry in government grants, and then the hundreds of thousands of dollars that they've received government contracts they as you say the US, the goodwill that are built around these charitable model to help. Refugees or poor people in Africa to bring in people who are progressive, minded and try and build them into young liberal activists, whether they go into the little party itself, or they go into the not for not for profit or NGO or charity apparatus, or they're just friendly to the Liberal Party and become liberal voters. It is so amazing to see the apparatus that they have set up. And I mean look at this as a left as a left wing person who's extremely critical of how the end EP and left wing kind of parties in general look at celebrity. Celebrity or look at charisma. Look at trying to like get a an interesting charismatic person to be the head of their party I. Mean they've they've tried to do that? With with Jug needs sing but that that was a weird I think there's a lot of progressives who are kind of like turned off by that kind of politics, but they the liberals have created an actual star system where they churn people through the various apparatus that they have to see to create them into stars and I think that this moment allows us to see that with total clarity. I mean bill more knows. Daughter is my favorite story in all of this. Yeah I mean I feel like you should talk about that. I saw I was watching your twitter feed because I was like Ooh Nora nor is like really interested in this. It's like. Watching your twitter feed. Yesterday, which is a recording this on Saturday so I was watching to feed on Friday. Just looking through all of the information that you've found on this girl who you know. Important to talk a little bit about. You know what's happened here because it's just so obviously curated and it's curated through we, but as this person who is the daughter of a political representative. Yeah, and so I said the daughter of bill more a bill more. No I shouldn't more clear because more. No has a couple of kids and one of his daughters who is adopted from Uganda when she was a teen. Actually works for we currently. which I mean I like Bill Moore. No is the little guy signing the nine hundred million dollar. Check to the charity at my my kid works. There seems like a bit of a conflict and when he was challenged. On this by by journalists. I believe is the the CBC that asked him about this. He was like. Oh, she works in like Travel Coordination Administration. She has nothing to do with the decision making there, but it's like there is no trouble going on right now, so like no offense, but that's not a fucking defense, and of course there's no. Response if there was a follow up, question was not answered, but his other daughter is named Clair. She is goal. Girl and I was only tipped onto this. Because I think you need to explain would have a girl. Girl is one point. You think you have to explain that because I'm not from Toronto and you have a very good handle on this, but. But I'll just say before that I was tipped onto this by a girl that went to school with her at have a real, and who was infuriated by seeing how much she was leveraging the power, given to her by her father and her father's position to claim like all this personal success. But what does it mean to be a have a girl Gal. Well you know. It's interesting I was explaining this to some Americans today like we have a very good public school system, so everybody goes to public school unless you're like the most elite piece of Shit douchebag. Ever Goal Is I? Mean many people may have heard of Upper Canada college where some of our prime ministers have gone to Upper Canada College. It's like Amends Private School in Toronto really elite. And like an exclusive club of people who end up going into Trinity College, you've T- generally, and then becoming dicks who? Run for the Liberal Party. have or goals like across the street had goals like the girls version of that, and so she going to have her goal means that she's either elite, or is one of the very few students who gets a scholarship there right? And so when she was seventeen, she wrote a book from Vanity. Publisher vanished, Vanity Publishing House of of her pen pal discussions with sales in a refugee camp in Kenya. And the camp is called the more no Chapelle, school for Girls More Chapelle. More no Chapelle of course being the the company that bill more no owns I mean that's we're more. No comes from and more Chapelle, their insurance company. Can you imagine like? To refugee camp like and that is your life, and then you get a Oh. Hey, this this girl! Wants to be your pen pal in your like cool I'm just chilling here at the more chapelle. fucking refugee spot. WHO's the girl and it's like? Oh, her name's more now. You're like what the? Anyway, so we continue. I just think that that is just so fucking. Typical. It's. Typical, and so there's there's rows and. Rows act like it's typical, but it's also fucking gross that they don't see anything wrong with that. Yes, like there's two. There's two kind of ways to tell the story and I'm GONNA I'm GonNa Start with the insider liberal patronage way, and then I think we should shift into the gross colonial racist way to tell the story and bull are so liberal. Liberal Party of Canada that it's just it's just awesome. So I there there was a the book had twitter account I spent some time reading through the tweets last night to see like how the book was promoted and Clare. More no did the full suite of of media. She was on here now on. CBC Radio in Toronto. She was on she's. Chatelaine glow male, and she did like the TV spots I think I saw breakfast, television, or like morning shows like that if I'm if I'm wrong, specifically about breakfast television and the there's a few public speaking events who's part of the Walrus talks, which is kind of a prestigious speaking series that the Walrus magazine puts out every year and My favorite was the talk that she did at the Rotman school. And so here you've got a seventeen year old. Who just published people's handwriting like I? Don't know if she paid the girls whose letters appeared in the book I mean that she better have. Some journalists who's listening, please. Please, please. His book only came out two years ago or yeah two years ago so three years ago now, so it's not too hard to find, but on on the day of the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination March Twenty one. She spoke at the Rotman School, which is the University of Toronto, school, of business and the dean of the Rotman. School is a guy called tiff Malcolm. And, so she got picture herself a tiff. Sandy. Do you know who tiff mclamb is now? Don't they need to tell me okay well and it did. It wasn't a huge announcement, so it has slipped through a lot of people's tiff. mclamb was just named by Clare's father to be the next governor of the Bank of Canada and it was a surprise appointment. People were like Oh why is the dean of Rahman being appointed to the governor of the Bank of Canada because there was a woman who is like the deputy governor who is kind of like the presumed next person and journalists covered it as in pill, no more no, such a renegade points from the outside of the Bank of Canada to shake it up. But Anyway, obviously they're buddies. If he's hosting bills, daughter at his school and I didn't see her speak at any other schools of business or any other faculty talks would show be speaking at a school of business. For this book I it doesn't make any sense and someone who does speaking gigs from once once in a while I. Mean You do speaking gigs once in a while I mean sometimes yeah, you get asked by a place that. Might be confusing. You're like. I never thought they would ask me, but maybe they. They WanNa to hear about what I have to say, but what does a high school student? Who is a pen, pal? For someone who is at a place or goes to school that her dad funds? Who's written or published those letters? have to offer to the business students. At at Rotman like what's the? What's the connection there? Maybe the peace and Conflict School Trinity, college or New. College or something like was places that you have t short, but rotman school of business yeah really. That sounds like something that was cooked up over our. No some drinks. That the more no family was having with. macklin. Maybe maybe would you think probably? Yeah, yeah, I mean there's she she was. A part of Heather responds picks, which is a way to get your book at the Front of Chapters and Indigo, which of course, Canada's largest book chain so somehow her book Kuma Girls. became a heathers pick and featured quite prominently so another little bit of help. She spoke at we day. and this is one connection that I feel like as is helps to kind of expand this conversation past the we charity, so you know and there's a picture of her and Justin Trudeau at at the we day, and they're just loving it and he's like the prime minister is like no big deal. I'm just talking big charity event that I have nothing to do with, and they're just paying my mom. Hundreds of millions hundreds of thousands of dollars. But she was also named a youth ambassador for the UNHCR and the school that her father has paid for his name to be on. It is actually a UNHCR school, and so to fund that school. You have to give money to the UNHCR so I have a whole bunch of questions about whether or not the Liberal Party is giving the UNHCR money for vanity projects that the name of the finance minister that might be tied to it, and we also know that like. Like that there's been a whole bunch of politicians that have gone to Kenya and done. We trips you know. Of course there was this big a bombshell investigation from Canada land that called into question. The we charities sketchy nece in Kenya, and so does. It seems very bizarre that like we is involved with this. You've got the UNHCR you've got the Liberal Party. You've got these young people who've been given book contracts for no fucking reason really beyond their last name. What is going on here? What is actually happening? When someone is constructed to be or organizations constructed to be in this way? Well look it consolidates power and let me tell you like when I say that. This is a strategy of the little. Liberal Party that they've done before like I. Have Examples for you when when black lives matter became became like. A very popular and the things that we were calling for became very popular in two thousand sixteen hole of a sudden, this organization was announced. The Federation of Black Canadians. and it was like. Where's this coming from You know we hadn't heard about you. Know I'm pretty plugged in to the black community and we haven't heard. That, this was coming up and you look at who was announced to be board members, and so on, and they were like some of the people were like MP's the spouses of sitting MP's. And people who had connections to the Liberal Party and it was like Oh, i. see I see what's happening here. The Liberal Party does not want to respond positively. To things that were calling for, and so they're setting up an alternative organization, an alternative Liberal Organization that can say those people over there. Who are black are calling for some radical things that you should not listen to, but we. We are the reasonable black people, and we will tell you that you're doing just fine, or here's the small things that you can you can. You can do, and then they can report in the media that they have the support of the Federation of Black Canadians now. People like myself. L Jones Desmond Coal. Black lives matters organization as a whole Rodney diverse. We really called this out. And didn't allow it. To become as public as I think it could have become as popular I. think it could have become. At their first convening, there were people there who roundly said like this is a liberal setup and we don't want this. And there was some scandals like two in the exposing of the connections that people who are on this board that nobody you know knew how it had been set up, even had connections with the Liberal Party and it kind of got quiet. I mean I know they're still operating right now. Apparently, they're like having meetings Zionist organizations is what I've heard some. It was like help Sandy. Stop them and I was like this is what they're going to do because they're. Party. Just GonNa try to justify whatever the Liberal Party. Is Doing. By helping them with whatever. Activities that they take on. But this is you know this is one of the ways that power tries to stifle. Change that might be demanded from the ground and I mean Nora and I have another example. That you know we were. Like so hard against for so long. Yeah, they when? After Mike Harris had been premier of Ontario where tuition fees had been deregulated, and they started to go up very very fast. The way that the Liberals and Ontario and a lot of the people who are around Dalton McGinty at the time. actually done did go to the Federal Party, so we're talking about very, if not the exact same people then like similar tactics within liberal operatives. Dolls McGinty was elected and promised to freeze tuition fees, which is a really big deal at the time, because tuition gone up so fast under Mike Harris and the tuition fee, promise was one of the only ones that McGinty actually kept he. He made a lot of promises to get elected in two thousand and three, and he did free tuition fees for tears, but there were two organizations that were so close to the Liberal Party I. Mean One of them was like literally liberals and they're all still young liberals and one just ran to be the leader of the fucking Ontario Liberals I mean. They are liberal, liberal, liberal liberal liberals. And they fought US step of the way when we would say students want lower tuition fees, they would say students reasonable limits to our tuition base, and during the process of determining what they would do with tuition fees. This is with the Liberals are so intelligent. They created a fucking bullshit review of post secondary education. They hired an insider to do. Do this review four them. The the heat already admitted that he admitted to the to the global mail that the that the decisions were pretty much predetermined, but he went through this dog and pony show across the province and the liberal front organizations for the students were able to promote what he was saying. Now Sandy. Remember who that was. Is Bob Rae. Bob Rae and Bob Rae was in the news again this week because he has just been given the plum appointment to be Canada's ambassador to the United. States, because of all his wonderful human rights work done in Myanmar. Yeah, that's what it is. The human rights work done a man Mar.. Right. It's just it's ridiculous. Web is so small and I. Think like we see Sandy, and I see it because we have been in the middle of it. We know a lot of their names and you can see these names pop up here in pop up. There and I get that. It's not I mean the reactions that I'm getting to some of the things that I'm putting out or the way that people are reacting to this. We kind of web of ridiculousness. I someone say that this is like like another version of the gumri inquiry where the sponsorship scandal just named person after person after person in this web of lies from the Liberal Party and it is like that it's like that that's literally how the Liberals operate. That is the only way the liberals know how to operate is through corruption and scandal and front organisations, and after turfing and and the celebrity culture that tries to use the individual to to hide all of the the things happening below the surface, and the problem of course is that it's largely successful. Yeah and I think you know some people might be listening to this. Being like what if this has all been happening for all these years and Y'all knew it like. Why didn't why don't we know what has been reported? Well one because a Liberal Party also owns a bunch of media. Story for another day, but honestly like I remember Nora, you were part of this conversation being in in an office one day being like we have got to expose this. We just need to call the fucking newspapers and tell them that. The Liberal Party has like a fucking front organization. Only meant to stop. US from making the arguments in the media, or that is only meant to make the counter argument for what we are making so that they can justify doing absolutely nothing and the arguments that we were having as as a group of activists were like. Yeah, we could try to call the media we try to do that. And some people already have and. They're not going to publish this story. It sounds so bizarre. Or they have their tentacles in the media and I think that what's really interesting about this moment. I mean you can even see that with we. Go Up to free the children. We Canada lands like. Hey, there's something weird here. Jaren cars like hey found out all this stuff. And the rest of the Canadian, medias like whatevs and turns around partially because again the Liberals have a lot of tentacles into media as well, but also because journalists like for whatever reason really fucking trust the Liberal Party and will report what they say as though it's truth even when it's not. And so it takes so much and years of doing investigation, and like pulling poking and prodding to get the mainstream media to report on we. That's why you haven't heard about this stuff before, but those of us who've been doing. It for years in this country. No, like the liberal like this is kind of what they do and you should know, too. the man.

Liberal Party Canada twitter US Sandy Nora Quebec Toronto O. J. K. Rowling Kenya CBC Jesse Brown Shit Ontario Liberal Party. Philip twenty twenty Quebec Chomsky Emma Keoni
Chaos in Canberra

Between The Lines

28:52 min | 2 years ago

Chaos in Canberra

"And welcome to a special edition of between. The and so I'm Tom Switzer. Always great to have you company. Well, nothing short of open warfare is broken out. Among the federal liberals this once grand and dignified political party will in the past week. It's resembled nothing so much as a power, bro. The drama started with a rebellion over the national energy guarantee that Cafo quickly turned into a leadership spill, Malcolm Turnbull, prevailed on Tuesday, but within two days the conservatives struck again fatally wounding, Malcolm Turnbull, he's thirty had been draining away as if from an open wound. So why is camera the coup capital of the world is this political volatility unprecedented. Now, we facing an enduring political crisis in this country. Judas bread is America's professor of politics at Latrobe university in millburn and author of several influential books, including Australian liberals and the moral middle-class John's Allen is professor of law, the university of Queensland in Brisbane and a regular contributed to the spectator Australia that had been consistently calling for the downfall of Malcolm tumble for pretty much the last three years and grime young is executive director of the Australian Institute for progress. A former Queensland state vice president and campaign chairman for the Queensland liberal party before we put this week. In a broader context, let's turn to the here. Now, Jim you've been one of the many conservative critics of Malcolm tumble. How accurate was the charge? That Malcolm toon will let a labor light government. Well, it certainly seems accurate to me. I mean, they attacked superannuation. They're big spending big debt governments after press. Trump was elected they ratified Paris throwing money at submarines the appointments that were made by Brandis and turn Bill Guthrie Mellon to the Roslyn crowd shirts. The human rights commission. Did you digital appointments? The economy is built on big immigration. If you look at gross domestic product per capita growth since the lives of come in. It's it's appalling zero point eight one point zero it's below inflation wages stagnating highest energy costs and the democratic world pretty much highest minimum wage just about one of the highest corporate tax rates. I mean, this is not a small government liberal party that I recognize listen the head tough border protection on the Malcolm tumble. He was pushing company techs cuts that doesn't sound like live a lot grime young. No gyms list of of issues of some of those are actually things. The government has no control the freeze heavily sought some minimum wage set by independent body. I think what you think what you go to recognize couldn't do anything about it. And I shouldn't do anything bad. It's an independent body can change the legislation. Well, let's join wants to do and he wants to actually increase it. So. Labor that we might. But that's what you have to work with to lot grime. I think what I think what to go to accept his that Bill showed never accepted that he lost the last election. Hayes been running around using the fact that the government doesn't have the numbers in the Senate to basically twist them by the tile. So Jim says they're big spending government will the not as big a spending government is shorten would have been the certainly a big spending government, and they should have been. But I've had an inability to get budgets through the Senate with at doing the guys and they're side lift a couple of time bombs by the the last prime minister of strategy before tiny Abbott, Julie Gila who put the India's and the gun skate cycled reforms into plies which were unfunded, and which put a time bomb they which future government had to deal with. And that's been a confounding problem as well, many conservatives and liberals Judy would agree with Jim Allen's analysis that term. Oh was too close to lie, but the coalition should represent a choice not an echo had you respond to that conservative. Critique. Well, my response to the Saint of a strike in politics progressives in the right wing of the light of Taty elections of one in the Santa. They don't one on the ages. So hang that symbols. Liabilities. Justice assistant an accumulation. I mean, he was I think a centrist prime minister and striding paid on the whole lock began. And they they won't government should provide into funds itself. But he was actually I think responding to to Wade Saint of politics. Judy is not alone. He Jim Lenora Tyler in the Godley. And she says the lack of policies at the heart of this insurrection this conservative insurrection shows it isn't about preserving the potty as a broad church. It's about following the global trend towards the firearm, which is ultimately unelectable your response. Well, the last time I was on with Utah my listed. We're basically John Howard policies and Paul Kelly called it far right program. It's not far. Right. There's nothing that has been articulated by Peter Dutton or anybody else. That's can be plausibly called far. Right. So I hate that fact that what about forty percent of people in Australia support is somehow can be labeled far, right? Look the commentary at around the world from the mostly journalist clearly are not very attuned to what's happening. They've got the Brexit vote wrong. They got Trump wrong. My native until you know, Doug, Ford got elected on a policy of we are going to pull out of Paris at the provincial level toward extending could kill all the subsidies and cut spending. He won a massive majority. The sort of marked texter view that you move a centimeter to the right of the labour party. And this is a good election strategy. That's supported by people who are left wing in their political inclinations. There's no evidence at works. You're much better off to offer the voter's choice put a chasm between you and labor. I do I do agree with Judy that. And and Graham that we have a huge problem with our Senate. So I think we can agree on that Justin Trudeau gets elected and Kennedy can do what he wants pretty much or a Tory in well Barrymore on the ill Impe government of Campbell. Newman did not have a Senate, and they lost Powell within one to great they lost. Because the voters didn't like they didn't lose because they were completely stuffed by upper house where you get five votes from your friends and Tasmania or some guy who likes cars, and you know, these people who are getting elected to the Senate. Eighteen first preference votes. It's ridiculous now many commentators, I think judy's one of them. You will see a lot of this in the Cambridge Chris gallery. Many of my colleagues at the I B C grime they say that tune Bols greatest Pechiney in the past two threes has been his valley to stay down. Conservatives. I have nowhere else to go. This is their argument and by failing to reach out to lie to support interest legislation. He really undermined he's leadership. How would you respond to those consents, but that's just size PayPal. The they press passes in that's the reality TV or the game of thrones view of politics, Milton. Berle is one vote. A cool 'cause he's a significant, but he's only one, but he represents a potty doesn't represent himself. I mean that is just Saif ashes in a sense in conception. It's ridiculous in the society to live a low so criticisms and to a certain extent from the lift that's what's being bringing Melton will down and it's completely unwarranted. Hayes is a man who leads a liberal arts center at potty. Why would I expect to be anything? But Sarah, there is because there is polling that indicates that, you know, I'm we saw the results of the same sex marriage vote that on some key issues. Strolling people decidedly to the lift of the liberal party conservative base. I'm six marriage renewables. So are the liberal party, especially that Rawling bite out of touch with middle. Australia grime well. Possibly because they don't middle the style. But that doesn't mean the unelectable listen to the discussion about the centrism before that's a two dimensional vision of politics, and it doesn't actually work in the real world. We live in a real world, that's three dimensions. Plus a full time. And we deal with that pretty well when it comes to politics, apparently, we think that you are the lift deride what you do in politics as you put together coalitions of supporters, and you do that as Jim says by differentiating position every person who has won a significant majority. From us auto politics industry has done that Bob Menzies did it on. How did it Malcolm fries? It you difference yet your product, and then you work out who's kind of bought I'm why the guy into bought you don't have any of this nonsense that all we'll just for the people in the middle whoever. They are have you defined the middle and tight and win the election. Does not work watch seems to me the part of the problem here is that the liberal party's still trying to work out, whether it's a liberal party or a conservative party. Let's he from Tom Hughes and Joan golden in the light sixties early seventies. Of course, these new ideas didn't go down will with the Trump dodge in the party. The conservatives will look I belong to a liberal. Well, I think it's a liberal and. That was Joan Gordon the prime minister of Australia from nineteen sixty eight to seventy one sign that the liberal party is a liberal party before that you heard from Tom Hughes. Who was he's attorney general also happens to be Malcolm. Campbell's father in law. Judy is the liberal party liberal party or a conservative potty? They clearly got elements of but one of pedals. I've been struck by topping listening to what they have been saying and the last of the last couple of months riff since to the heart and soul of Taty, and some people believing that the heart and soul of the potties in the base of the party. It reminds me of the schisms that split library, Pat in the prewar period, that's probably out of most people's historical memory now. But then you head really ideologically lift lift people in the light Apache wanting to stay true to the organization, which was essentially the trade union base against the sodas pal. The logic of the parliamentarians. I mean, that's why when Whitlam became lead the lighter potty, he actually increased the top Cottam appearance. So I could freidan fill in that. So seems to me with seeing is a group we little potty for whom it's more important to stay true to putting Audie logical belief. They has been these to win elections with a meaty conventional wisdom to. Judy clearly subscribes Jim is that the liberals would get walked out if the if pay a Dutton who leads a fire out of the potty leads the party at the Knicks election that's going to happen. How would you know, far right of the party, Tom stop talking like that? It's a it's a language. It's the language of the people making that argument. Okay. Well, two things wants terminological in nineteen sixty five. I would have been a liberal because he was talking about classical liberals. He wasn't talking about a modern American progressivism that uses the labor liberal. So we're going back to talk about a John Stuart mill type, liberalism, then count me a liberal. I don't think that there's any evidence that the Malcolm Turnbull black hand gang in the liberal party, a spouse, any of those views, so that's point one point two goes back to this claim about, you know, the polls on renewables, look, there hasn't been anybody in liberal party explained that there's no country in the world where you can you can increase renewables and lower price. If you ran a campaign to make it clear that nobody is living up to the Paris accords. And you every single place where they increase renewables, unless they actually have nuclear power plants. The cost is going to go up. You would see those polls change quickly and exactly the same way that when people saw the cost of moving to a Republican. I wasn't just a airy-fairy poll question, they quickly realized that a Republicans about idea if you explain to the voters what the problem is. We have no leadership. No one saying we're spending too much or here's the problem with renewables Graham, says that means ease fries how it he could argue Abbott. The most successful liberal leaders in the Motiur the federal level governed as an campaigned and governed as center ROY candidates, Judy when Abbott replaced whom Bill light two thousand and nine you said, and I think reflected the conventional wisdom, certainly in the flex media and the IB see quote, the liberals risk becoming a downmarket protest party of angry old men in the outer suburbs yet Abbott revived coalition fortunes. He knocked off road knocked off gilette anyone. Laude election, but also been printed. He was completely incapable of governing. I think eh beheading won the election. Like that improves you capable of governing. Mike people a little wary about the scenario repeating itself. And maybe I'm down here in Karang Ahmad way. Sarah Henderson will be gone think you've gotten we. And I think they'll be Victorian fates as world, it'll be the reason the flipside grime young. I mean, the liberals I want to win back. The million also conservatives who refuse to vote for Malcolm led coalition isn't the flip side of that argument that model unite a lotta those small liberals in electorates locker Wrangham on I'll show let's pot of the political calculus that for every win vote. You win potentially about the to lose. Then why not go have the prime minister because the clock losing move out some they winning. I think what we're talking about people talking about it into of winning the next election. You know, fries it as trying to achieve a strategic fate perhaps than route. If they don't care for they'll end up with a massacre. But but I think onto turmoil though, a heading for route under. Under the under Dutton. I think they could get a strategic defeat like solidify the Bice behind them, and and reassure them that they actually stand for those values on with with Jim this this tone firearm is mealy thrown around shutdown to bite to make it sound like someone's like Hitler. Now. That's just nothing's food from the truth. What what these paper cool the firearm paper who just solid citizens who think these should Kate what you should buy a house Pyatt down. The astrologer is applies. That has institutions rather apply. Set you can just dump people in I believe in. Rod SAI believe implying speaking. They don't believe in political correctness. You know, it's forty fifty sixty percent of the population. And some of them are excellent. Thanks, judy. Judy Judy Brit. Kisses as nine stream strata, many whom saw that. Conserved deficient, for example, on time six marriage where the people who are gotten his associated weekend some of supporters, which is shown to be quite out of out of line way. Nine string thinking news. And it was just times. Now, jim. Same sex marriage. But this was Julia Gillard policy as recently as fifteen years ago, it doesn't count as far right? You can you can agree with it or disagree. But the far, right. You know, my guests Judy Brit emeritus professor of politics at Latrobe James Allen, professor of law at the university of Queensland and grime young full McCain pine chaiman for the Queensland liberal party. Will let's pull this in a historical context. We keep hearing about full prime ministers being knocked since twenty ten Kevin Rudd. Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott nail Malcolm tumble. It's not a new phenomenon. Let's go back to the IB see in botch. Nineteen seventy-one MC month. Australia's new prime minister. This is Russell Simmons in Sydney with the national news report to all six states of the Commonwealth. The governor general Commission, Mr McMahon to form a government meeting of the liberal party decided on a change of leadership. Now Bill McMahon. Struck against Joan golden enlighten on sixty nine. He whited probably sixteen also months before striking again in nineteen seventy one these days, you do in two days back, then you had a month's Judy things really changed dramatically in Cambridge. I think. Well, I think the other comparison that in the past parliamentary prime minister fell on the floor of the house rather than in the potty. But again, it was because people change their nine. So, you know, in the first ten years, we had finished communist Menzies lost depri-. He's supposed prime minister sheep on the floor of the house went to heat supported defected. So, you know, the I mean now hadn't the potty room because potty won't be 'plain. I've trying to think, you know, you say plus two dot and when it becomes prime minister will full on the floor of the house. Probably not I think even full of the cross bench voted against he'd still be okay. And listen national decided to move but promised so I think that it's the discipline stops that I think that would be good thing. And we should just have an election. You grime this period of doubt and uncertainty. That's a fluted the ustralian. I mean, how different is it from other periods. Well, it's no different role. You know, we've had more of the soda thing in stroz history than we've had periods of pace. You know, we we look at the times when we've had long governments. But even Menzies who is invoked to us as prime minister turf debt, just before the war during the war, and then came back and full the liberal potty. And then one a long period of time, which which because a lot of people who come and tight grew up in that period of time that sets the standard as to what you think happens. We have paid us in here in Queensland Baltin, Victoria, and and ask six minutes. Tonight years, that's pretty odd isn't well everage term of government used to be about two and a half years. And then I go to doubt. So, you know, the people did that to thing at the moment. We've got the the back benches doing terrific out. But I think it's that unreas- unusual. But what we've got at the moment is we've got I do think it's unusual in energy. Lemme ask you your from Canada votes. I lead in New Zealand you've lived in this country for nearly fifteen years help Accua or unusual around problems. Are I think they are pretty naked? I put them down to two factors firstly if you compare us to Canada and Britain, the party members have say in the leader, it's not just up to the caucus. Turn Bill would never have won. If he had had to appeal to the party party members. So Justin Trudeau on the left of left side politics. He's not put in just by his carcass. He's put in by the party members. Even Theresa May. You know, they the caucus can get it down to two. And then the. Party members vote that brings some stability. The other distinct factor here in Australia. We're one of only three democratic countries in the world with a powerful upper-house Italy. It's a basket case the US has modeled on the US the US has one, but it's got only a two party system. So at least, you know, it's all the other parties fault. There's nobody accountable here. If I don't like what Jacqui Lambie does in the Senator. I don't like what some guy gets twelve votes from Victoria does. I have I have. No, there's nothing I can do is voter in Queensland the senate's powerful the voting systems of mess in the Senate. And so a guy gets elected or a woman gets elected. And there's nothing they can do. They can't get things through the Senate that doesn't apply anywhere else. We'll Kili the veteran journalist who's been on this program several times over the last few years. He says L nation is facing a political crisis. He's been saying this for some time petty partisanship political polarization, Pavel special interests poll, driven political, culture reform weary. Innis and camera, but Judy if you put this in an international perspective, you know, spent time in Westminster Washington in recent times, final Paul Rausing dysfunctional and partisan in Britain and America than it is he. They're not PO Kelly, Scott, he always funding crosses. He's. I mean, I think one of the great stabilities in Astrid is compulsory vouching that makes out app polity to hide quasi for me from Indiana countries. And I think one of the differences ease. It means that the motivation of the extremes doesn't work even the white dozen countries where you don't have compulsive housing way that mobilization is needed to bring out the vote. And I think that's one of the reasons that at politics is pooled always towards the Saint grim. Compulsory voting. I don't think it really makes much difference. The pot of what was saying at the moment. NFL Powell is collision of a sort of international idealistic way of looking at some issues like for example, climate change colliding with polcy reality and no party in the parliament of the moment has a solution to that. And none of them is prepared to be honest with the public as we're in on Tairea. So I think what you've got his cowardly politicians not fighting some of these issues getting swept along and getting compromised by their impasse decisions and tiny got himself compromised as well and not being prepared to taika positions. I think part of the problem is that there political class lease dies, and that some of the stuff you've been plying involved people who'd been involved in Wilbur took when you put you on the life on the line for your country. Your attitude politics is a lot different than if you've would. Y up through the the young liberals young vibe rule. Young nationals through members office and advisement what to sign him. What not to say with limited consequences if you get it wrong. And then suddenly, you're member of parliament. I think that's breeding some of the instability Judy hell, how do we resolve this problem in camera? What I think we need an election. Really? You know, if I'd been Malcolm to have have called an election today to actually create you would have blown up your own party and created an annoy elation just at a spite after having. Hoster having knife. The former prime minister white ended him for year and a half. I mean, if Turnbull had done his reputation would have been trash think the pod brash. I would have been a wis resulting. They're going to get do agree with Judy about compulsory voting though. I think the real problem is preferential voting. So the compulsive part is fine. The problem is if you're angry with your side of politics, you have to preference them, unless you're prepared to vote for labor, so in a first-past-the-post system or most other voting systems, you're not required to vote for the block and only in Australia, and I think some other country in the South Pacific has preferential voting are used to like it. But what it does is it locks you in. So you can put all these other parties I, but as long as you put the libs ahead of labor, you are affectively voting for the lives. And so it's very hard to discipline your own party with preferential voting. I think that's the pro to be continued grime Jim Judy. Thanks so much for being. Between the lines. Thanks, Judy British from Latrobe university James Ellen is from the university of Queensland and grime young is the executive director of the Australian Institute for progress. We'll before you leave us, let's take a trip down memory lane. The liberal party of bounds with Impey's and senators wielding Nantes's, many of them conservative low Mike is Representative of the potties Bice will they whiting to sink the gnaws between the latest shoulder blades. No. I'm not referring to August. Twenty eighteen that much nineteen seventy-one mentioned this earlier in the show. The liberal prime minister was John Gordon. His wrought hand men was Thome Hughes. Attorney general end Malcolm tumbles father in law, and the challenge was Bill mon- representing the conservative wing of the potty. He's the IB sees Nani ninety four documentary the liberals. Liberal party of been challenged. And the the question of the federal nature of the Patty because John Gordon had demonstrated that he'd be become a must centralist prime minister said never centrist, prime minister for a liberal have gotten was a man. Who really didn't have the same? Visuals standards as liberal party. I often wondered really having happened to get into the liberal party. I believe is himself transitional prime minister stuff. Number of young lido's in the liberal party. All. Not sufficiently mature to support that time. But during the is John Bolton would have been should have been. It would have that cell fail. The lead would've lived and being the future. Prime minister was finding within camber within my own area responsible. In many ways being repeated the press the spectrum of government in the spectrum of the Patty. And it was all of that that lived to join Gordon's undoing something was bound to be the last straw. Ladies and gentlemen on Sunday night. Could you list, Ellen Reid suggested on television that if Fraser resigned he would bring down Joan golden. Outdrawing Malcolm Epping, should did you hear that stuff that they could ever the the meeting and he should damage. Alright you get a bit bus to worry about. And I went to bed and next morning. I had to bash. But if I've made up a mind that I wanted to resign. Visit and want to be sick before. I resigned. And I think that's legitimate. That wasn't the other give any warning to join Gordon that night. What I'd intended. I wanted to have it out clear. As my decision. My option. On the Monday phrase did resign his cabinet post the morning while the day, I made my resignation speech. Two people into my office ahead speech was not an us oppose this indicates that. Two more in my mind because I'd never envisage that I'd be in that position. Last both of them have time to read the speech. But I said, I've got a speech that I think would probably. Destroy join Gordon's prime ministership. Should I make it? Oh, should I not make it? Ciller should make it. Jeez. The more things change the more. They stay the same. What a waking camera on Switzer? Hope you continue in again next week. And.

prime minister liberal party Jim Judy Australia Malcolm Jim labour party Malcolm Turnbull Queensland liberal party Senate Joan Gordon Tom Switzer university of Queensland Bob Menzies Peter Dutton Tony Abbott Paris Bill Joan golden Malcolm toon
How brutal politics and righteous prayers toppled a Prime Minister

Conversations

52:54 min | 1 year ago

How brutal politics and righteous prayers toppled a Prime Minister

"This is an a._b._c. Podcast ever is back on conversations today nikki's and experienced journalist and political a commentator with the particular line of insight into the workings of the liberal party because she worked for some years as a meteoroid to former treasurer pitta castillo now my stuff has been happening in the liberal party in the past year or so if you hadn't noticed one prime minister has been overthrown and his successor has won an an election against the odds nikki server has been looking at the underlying tectonic forces at work within the liberal party and she she sees nothing less than a war for the soul of robert menzies party and she thinks that once you understand that then the events of the past few years start to make like since he says book on the overthrow of malcolm turnbull and the rise of scott morrison is called plots and prayers heineke high written. You never expected into this book did you. I never thought i would write. This book. Never thought i would have to write this book. I thought after i'd region road to ruin that it that would be it for me and basically that would be it for the liberal party because i thought malcolm turnbull would probably be allowed to to continue in the job until the election he would win the election and then at some stage decide to leave and hand over to morrison and then what would be the story in that they wouldn't be one so i run into very cassidy not long after malcolm turnbull took over the liberal leadership once again and you know the view at the time time was so widespread and you know i i held it was the timber would easily win that election to twenty sixteen election and he would go on and on and on and on forever but he was seen to have been crippled by the needs to constantly appeal to the right of his party the group of people that undid him last time. How did he try to keep that section of the hobby. Happy nikki. He tried every day in every way to keep that side of the party close to him and he was reluctant to do anything or say anything that might put them off side or put his position in danger. How close was he. You too matijas coleman and peter dutton during those years. He relied on them completely. They were his praetorian god. They were the people who protected him. There were the people who ensured that whatever policies were being worked out. Were table to get either through the cabinet through the party or through the parliament matteis was instrumental in getting the legislation through true the senate because of his negotiating schools with the cross bench and dutton was he's conduit to the right wing of the the party but typically the queensland of the early queensland but even beyond queensland so although malcolm's the strongest supporters were from the progressive wing that is people like george brandis and julie bishop and christopher pyne the people that he relied on most were matisse coleman and peter dutton just taking timbale out of the picture momentarily class coleman and dutton figures dutton and coleman as dutton put it to me. We're like brothers you see. I didn't know that i didn't think that was often reported. I follow politics closely. I'd no idea the medina's cormon and peter dutton was so close but queensland party that w i party i thought they come from different backgrounds but they hadn't will you would think simply by looking at them that there were polar opposites but in many ways they were like brothers. They got along extremely extremely. Will they walk together. Every day. They confided in one another. They trusted one another absolutely and <hes> their relationship relationship continues in fact there now renting an apartment together in cambria so you know they like brothers sharing a house together. Herbert julie bishop the second most senior figure in the party and foreign minister at the time. How close was she to mitya's coleman given that they're both senior figures in the wwl liberal party. They loathed while another. They never got along. They didn't trust one another and they were to a large extent in competition with one another not only only for the attention and the year of the prime minister but also in terms of who was the most powerful figure in the wwl liberal party. This is all taking place within the context of a changing liberal party membership from your observations. How has the nature of the membership of the liberal party changed in glossed ten years or so it did use to be what john howard described as a broad church there was room in the liberal bro party for people with a small c conservative view and with a small lil liberal view now ah the nature of the base has changed quite considerably. I think it's now conservatives with a capital c driving art god or not allowing room or making room four people with small hill liberal views they they are becoming a much more conservative party in all sorts of ways except economic. They're very conservative. I think socially early particularly on social issues what gay marriage that kind of thing it black gay marriage like a religion washing all those kinds of things but when it comes to economic matters they are not the traditional liberal small spending kind of if party there into big spending. Maybe lower taxes but really not not much in the way of tax reform. The liberal party is often prided itself looping like the labor party and less prone to branch stacking less prior to an organizer organiz takeover from outside institutions within the party intrigues them. I think that's what trotskyites trotskyites call it or something like that. The liberals were wasn't proud that they've not been subject to that. Is that still true. A any kind of relationship between these new new liberal party members to outside institutions solutions will that has changed. This is not really meant to be gender specific. They used to be a much more gentlemanly kind of approach to politics from the liberal party but a few years ago that changed and they was active recruitment. That's one way to put it could be branch. Stacking being is another way to put it of deeply conservative people who were recruited into the liberal party particularly in victoria from church choose from churches but also win family. I failed when that disbanded. That was a pretty conservative social grouping. They was active recruitment of their membership but also from churches like the mormon church and <hes> the spiel that was made to them was that if you want to stop same sex marriage the way to do it is to get inside the liberal party to be a member of the liberal party not try to do it from outside so that led to the recruitment of fails tons of deeply conservative conservative socially people giving the temple. I've been doing these very level best. It seems to reach out to such people why would alienated from me. They never trusted him. He believed in same sex marriage for instance. He was an advocate for it. They never did and they never trusted him because of that. That was a key issue. When the same sex marriage plebiscite was passed there was there was a real backlash rush against him inside the base of the liberal party animal of the very conservative liberal impey's he's was there a sense among this group of the party that they were just waiting for a chance just looking for an opening to knock them out of the leadership doc i think that's obvious and <hes> the issue that they alighted on eventually was energy change the real issue that was bothering them or was it more things like same sex marriage. It was bothering them but it could have been anything. It could have been religious freedom for instance. If it hadn't been an energy it would have been something else and like i say there was smarting over same sex marriage even though it had been facilitated -tated by peter gotten and tony abbott abbott never thought that the plebiscite would happen. He never thought thought that parliament would give approval for the plebiscite so he thought <hes> there were going to be safe for some internal found a way through by just doing it through through a postal ballot through simply much government order rather than having to pass legislation which came from peter dutton the data dutton's idea to have if the postal ballot which was a stroke of genius on his part is quite an interesting character darden actually because he he came up with the idea and then a very bright young man in george brandis is office came up with the other idea of having the bureau of stats conduct conduct the ballot but when it came time to vote dutton voted in favor of it because his electorate voted for it and he also did not vote for any of the amendments and when it was over and morrison had been elected leader and eh dutton makes the point that you know i'm not the proud evangelical here. I'm not anti abortion and i voted for same sex marriage but anyway that is not hair his public persona translate to many people who want to buy the idea faded out as interest interest tryst is going to put he's not. He's not way out on the fringes on some things. Let's say head malcolm turnbull been warned lupita header lean and hungry look in his eyes so this week he was any number of times. George brandis warned him in two thousand seventeen after her story appeared in the daily telegraph which brandis thought had been sourced from dutton and <hes> he complained to turn boulevard in. What are you saying well. He he said that dutton was responsible for it and <hes> to dismissed it and and brander. I just said to him look. Can't you see this guy is stalking. You and turnbull said don't be ridiculous. Brandis said can't you say that he wants your job and and turnbull said george don't be ridiculous as if anyone could ever think the dutton could be laid or could be prime minister and laughed at him are timbale it was funny the whole the whole idea of his prime minister maker ridiculous notion and no one would ever believe it so there were a whole slew of by elections and what was called the super saturday weekend when all those by-elections occasion by breaches of six and forty four in the constitution and citizenship in the like that didn't wasn't seem to have gone well for the for the term government at the time and that seemed to be the trigger for the dutton forces to make their move now at this point turnbull will did see them coming turnbull moved i he moved ahead of dutton's plans and calling a spill off relationship how well prepared was dutton uh-huh and he supporters for an early challenge like that will dutton head a date circled on his calendar for a challenge orange against turnbull but it was sit for a couple of weeks hints he was waiting for the next news paul which would have made it forty news polls arose that turnbull had lost and <hes> so he was planning to make a move then but then someone briefed up the story in advance advance that dutton was on the move and was preparing to challenge of course everybody read it and started planning accordingly and indeterminable decided that he could either live on his knees or stand on his feet and five so he brought it on on the tuesday morning. He seemed to do that with some relish. Didn't they into my thinks. He likes to get the jump on his opponents he does. He does really what was his choice this could he should he just sat there and waited for dunton to be better organized anti bring it on or is malcolm. Fraser used to say try and catch him with his pants dan. That's what he tried to do. In fact in some ways that worked what did did scott morrison tech view as malcolm turnbull treasurer at the time and uh making many many supporting mcintosh's leadership this comores and have a view on malcolm turnbull calling leadership spill did he consult scott morrison this they i did speak over that weekend before and morrison told tumble not to do anything to bring it on. He said to him <hes>. Did you ever see john howard. Call on spill against peter costello now. It never happened so he surged him not to do. It comprised a cold andrew peacock pretty well for him. It worked well for him but very different times at this time you say there was was a distinct camp for scott morrison. He did have a group of followers who wanted him to become liberally told me about this group of mims mims upon very small group between ten and twelve he shared an apartment with <hes> two of them in camera that was <hes> stewart stuart robert and steve vines and most of the rest were part of a weekly prayer group whenever parliament set that they would meet together and have prayer sessions and most of them arrived in canberra around the same time in two thousand and seven so they were bonded together by a few things by the fact that they arrived around the same time and they had the added glue of religion. There were deeply religious. People how organized they were amazingly will organized okay so three of them live together and on the sunday night another member of the group that is alex hawke who is also very close emit in the apartment moment they shared and they mapped out every conceivable strategy and scenario that they thought would play out during that week because it was obvious that something was going to happen. Strategy to what end to making morrison lead to make morrison leader was morrison in those meetings yes yes. He attended those meetings did he's. I put you put spreadsheet away. You scams later. Is that what he said to the well. Alex hawke head numbers stored in in his laptop for months which he kept updating it was fairly easy to draw up lists of who who set where and who supported who depending on the issue say on same sex marriage for instance where would people lineup and on energy would people are knapp who who side with aon so that wasn't too bad was a popular figure outside this group of strongly strongly bonded supporters quarters morrison did not have very many friends inside the parliamentary liberal party beyond that group so this group's rock solid but but outside that that if he had relied solely on on that group he would never have got any way but what they did on tuesday was vote strategically for dutton to inflate dutton's numbers so dutton god vote of thirty five and that guaranteed that turnbull would never be able to come back from that if it had been a vote in the twenties he might have been able to survive that week and then to go on but because as many as probably tin the turnbull people think of morrison's people voted for dotson it it ensured that turnbull was made terminal some morrison supporters voted strategically tactically technically klay for peter with any desire for him to become the later ever wanted dutton's later held him up if you like so he would would he would lose but not by much not as much as anyone force and that would weaken turnbull in the process that might allow their man to come through what was what was morrison supporters to robert sang after this ballot which turned one forty eight to thirty five after the ballot but even before the ballot stewart robert was ringing liberal party back benches and saying to them turnbull is finished. His terminal dutton is not the answer yeah and if you want to win the next election. If you want any chance of winning the next election you got to vote for morrison. This was before even the first ballot before the. I was the turnbull capital where this was going on. Turnbull heard rumors to that effect that robert was doing that and rang <hes> stewart robert on tuesday morning wing for the meeting and said if anything happens can i count on your vote and robert said yes of course do you remember robert voted for tumble could he could he voted for ballot and but i asked i robert if he had and he said yes of course he did and you know we'll yes. Of course he would say that wouldn't he and also they in the next day after the ballot. He said tomorrow soon. If dutton wins wearing hill we're going straight to hell you. You have to run. It's your patriotic duty to run and morrison said well. I'm not gonna run against turnbull and robert said well. I'm i'm going to start talking to people now and morrison said to him. I'm not authorizing that. It was not a red light. He did not say to stewart robert. You better not do that because nothing's declared he just said. I'm not authorizing that will that in effect was a green light so why they went canvassing so the next day after this leadership. The timbale is one but not by a big margin. There's a press conference and at that press conference this prime i'm an attorney and he's being flanked by matisse cormon and scott morrison and this is the moment when scott morrison was asked by a journalist whether he had any leadership aspirations having any indication they this is my light. I'm ambitious paid on your thanks. That sounds like a rock solid support but if you think about it you pass the woods on. That doesn't mean a thing this is my later. Yes true and i'm in business for him. Well fine. I suppose we're ambitious for each other to will in this world but that doesn't mean not running against him does it now it doesn't and and and it was a premeditated gesture. I interviewed morrison after and he told me that he had done that quite deliberately but he says he's intention was to show that there was not even a sliver between him and internal at that time but you're right it was center no so as you saying that his people are having those conversations with other liberal party members saying terminals terminal kinda dutton you'll have to have albuque- how damaging tumble were conversations that were being head very damaging to him because if you've got as close to a man that you know is probably going to put his hand up for the leadership saying this guy's dead right and if if you vote for him you're going to lose your seat. It's a pretty big incentive isn't it to vote for the other guy so it was pretty clear what they were doing doing and why they were doing it and they all knew what was going on. I mean it's not as if it was a secret inside died the party the other bugs standing next to that day was not as common finance minister the terminator how how happy did he look being asked to pledge support to delay sending next to nikki well. I had spoken to coleman on the monday before the ballot the day before the day before the battery dies before this press conference before yes and i'd also spoken to him previously because my view was so long as dutton atten stuck with tumble and coleman stock with turnbull he would probably be safe right and so i checked with coleman woman on the monday and said to him are you sticking with turnbull and he said yes and i said until the bitter end and he said yes until the bitter end and if tembo goes down i've talked to my wife and i'm going to go down with him. If tumble goes i'm going two on resigning that was conversation almost verbatim right so no movement at all from myterious but then on wednesday wednesday morning he'd actually met with turnbull and tall turnbull that he should think about resigning and handing over ed to dayton then came out and gave this press conference where he was flanked by mci cash and mitch fluffy other front benches and this is what he said it's with great sadness and heavy hot that we went to see the prime minister yesterday afternoon to advise him that in our judgments he no longer enjoyed the support of a majority of members in the liberal party potty room and that it was in the best interest of liberal party for the prime minister to help manage an orderly transition but to a new leader just two days before that he told you he was just gonna leave. Parliament rather timber went down yes but even a matter of hours before that he had stood beside turnball at their press conference inference and was asked about whether he was going to stand by him and he said i will continue to serve him loyally into the the future. Those were his words and then a couple of hours later he told toon boom that he was defecting to to dutton and then he made the announcement so he's loyally didn't even see the setting of the sun why why did he flip like that after having making these public and private avid assurances. Why did he flip well. There are a couple of theories one is that coleman was complicit. All all along in dutton's plan and in fact dutton had been telling people <hes> days out that corman had done the numbers with him and he knew that he had the numbers to topple terminal and he also had war gamed everything with corman. That is what dutton tall all people. The other theory is that common could say that dutton's campaign was floundering at that stage although although he got this vote of thirty five it soon became apparent to them that they had been tactical voting and he didn't really have all those numbers. <hes> tumble had brought on and dutton wasn't prepared. He didn't have any kind of group around him organizing. They were <hes> stories going around that he was going to reinstate effort to the front bench that cost him votes abbot was so toxic inside inside the liberal party at that stage that people were telling dot and they weren't going to vote for him. If there was any chance that ev it would be coming back so don and was in a lot of trouble. So what you're saying is completely contradicts what he just said he said well hang on dutton's inevitability but you're saying hey houston and because he thought he's friends. Campaign was floundering lounging and this was a way of saying to them. Look i'm taking charge of the campaign a._m. Pain so it's safe to come across so they hoped that by having coleman out there publicly declare and then to take michaela highly cash and mitch fifield out with him also sent a signal that the cabinet was even further disintegrating that tumble was finished and the dutton was the man podcast and broadcast. This is conversations conversations with richard fidler a._b._c. radio's. We were just speaking for their of matisse's korman's extraordinary <hes> backflip in in in spot the reassurance given publicly and privately that he was going to stay with malcolm tumbled to the bitter end he popped out of the first leadership ballot saying actually it has has to be done you know even within the lie party and other parties in the senate but not a coin. That's been highly regarded. Figure kind of a word is my bond type. Character spoken respectfully by the likes of penny and others as well. What damage has this done to his reputation in politics nikki well. He's still able to function as government leader in the senate right but i i think he has trashed his own reputation and his credibility. I don't handshake anymore. Do you have to get stuff done in writing the guy now what happens now well. I guess look there are two things amongst politicians. They seems to be this thing. Oh bill you know we all have to till listen the truth truth. You know when we confronted with questions like that. So shortens had some interesting positions on party over over the eastern internally manily daikin still function but in terms of public perceptions of individuals i think they would look askance scans and it would further erode their trust in politicians when you look at someone who does something like that who can stand beside person one one day and say i'm with him until the bitter end and then the next day stick anopheles beck is equal will help. Can you possibly believe anything that anybody says anymore. That's maybe that's the bitter end. E was thinking of back during this period the interregnum between the two leadership shit ballots pull the second one came on malcolm turnbull was making noises about using the question is completed up eligibility to even sit in parliament where he may have committed the break section forty. Four of the constitution prepared to use that as a weapon against doesn't to the point of saying well. You can't fight for this guy because you don't even know if he's even allowed had to sit in the parliament. How malcolm turnbull prepared to go to wheel that as a weapon against peter dutton in his discussions with ministers who were threatening to cross over to dotson turnbull was saying to them. He's not eligible to sit in the parliament because he's in breach of section forty four and if you if you want proof i'll ring the governor general now. I'll get him on the phone and he can tell you know. Constitutional cross constitutional crisis is the attorney general becomes important here doesn't it christian porter were played a really interesting role during that entire period he i was asked to get advice from the solicitor general about whether dutton was in fact eligible or not and camera prime minister. Give the governor general that kind of advice the prime minister i advise you you cannot i'm advising you as promised you cannot appoint the replacement that my replacements pay deductible gutless party later because of this reason turnbull believed that as outgoing prime minister he could advise the governor general not to swear in peter dutton and this was in conflict with what with what christian porter thought christian boorda had sought advice on this because malcolm welcome had been flagging taking just that kind of action so port assorted vice independently from the attorney general's department on what were the grounds rounds that the governor general would look at to consider whether he could swear in a new prime minister or not and one was that the new you leaders head to have the confidence of the house and the other that he could guarantee supply and as far as a porta was concerned dutton. John could satisfy both those requirements but according to turnbull dutton willis ineligible because he was in breach of the constitution you. I think this is another thing. I learned from your book that we came to kinda. Something like anonymous skated passed a nineteen seventy-five type mammoth they didn't wiscon- to worst if dutton the head of a throne timbale and tumble i from moment he would have gone through with that that threat to ring the governor general and said governor. You must not appoint peter because he's eligibility. Just in parliament is the question then what goes up to the queen or i suppose it goes to someone else or that would have been pretty wild. Wouldn't it would have been very well. Alden also if dutton had been elected and he had the confidence of the house would turn bullet voted for dutton one st majority had a one c thirty and i think that the cross benches would've voted for data n- either so you know missed step by that much as this so lucky in so many ways that it was morrison and dutton who succeeded. You've got a new book emma where you have malcolm turnbull tilling rupert murdoch that pitted wouldn't win avert in house. Why was he talking to rip murdock. What's what businesses rupert murdoch's why why is he. What does he need to be consulted in such matters here. I don't think it was the consultation right. Rupert and there are lots of conspiracy theories that go around on this aruba texan interested in politics. A conspiracy has just an established fact that the conspiracy theory is rupert came out to restrain to you know involve himself in all this and i think that is nonsense. He happened to be here. They had prearranged to speak before the events took place and the phone call didn't happen for a number of reasons. I haven't spoken into rupert obviously but i've spoken to people close to rupert and their view was rupert wasn't exactly you know breaking leg to try to speak to turn because 'cause he knew what was going to say to him and that is <hes> he was very unhappy with the coverage that he was receiving so that was that was the basic thrust of is there a conversation that term was complaining about the coverage particularly of sky and rupert. Were saying well you know. He wasn't taking much of an interest in the australian operations anymore that was lachlan but he would speak to lachlan. You know he's kind of moved on tom. From politics seen astray lissa so another ballot was to be held petition was put forward with however many names names on its demanding another pottier vote and malcolm bullets. If this was brought on then he wouldn't stand as later so that opened the field for three people that was peter deductive course julie bishop put a hand up and at that point also scott morrison then put his hand up because he said i was gonna run against malcolm temple and he didn't not not in the party room as such and so there was a three way contest going on there with that julie bishop what happened to her support base the natural support base amongst the liberal party moderates during that contest she got eleven votes in that first ballot which tipped her out which was humiliating but the moderates moderates were completely ruthless and pragmatic days before they done their numbers and figured that bishop could beat marson but she couldn't beat darshan because the morrison people would not vote for bishop ship against dutton so they knew that if they threw their support behind by ship she would not marcin out of the race but then the morrison people would drift across didata n- and they would not julia out of the race so they made a strategic as i say ruthless decision decision not to vote for her but to vote for morrison said that they could make sure that morrison succeeded kingmakers for morrison innocence the moderate faction. Yes you know like i said before marson probably head tin votes as many as twelve votes maybe inside the party room without the moderates without christopher pyne and what he did morrison would not be prime minister today. Who's the really good chess play here. I mean is it morrison morrison's people all of them. I mean this is really amazing. Chess isn't it. I mean propping up dutton so he wounds turnbull and and then putting the credit situation where it makes sense pragmatically for the moderate stint to join the morrison camp which is in essence quite a small camp of people the was the king-maker is the who's the just just play here. Do you think marson is extremely clever is clever. He's cunning. He's <music> machiavellian think yeah. He's he's supreme in is kind of arts right otherwise he wouldn't be there. They had a very clear career that of how to get there they had a very clear objective and they knew what they had to do to get him the it just worked out exactly as as they intended so i think he's brilliant at those kind of arts and i think he was brilliant in the election campaign. He's a very good good campaigner. He's very disciplined campaign. What we don't know really is what kind of prime minister he will actually be what out of the kind of policies that he will implement and you know where he's going to take the country someone said to me. They never really regarded regarded him as a policy guy but hopefully that will change julie bishop head felt humiliated by the lack of support in the room from from her on heroin faction within the liberal party like a support from the moderates but that wouldn't have stopped there. I would've thought the staying on as foreign minister. Why didn't you want to stay on as foreign uh-huh. She couldn't bear to be in the same room as cormon and dutton. That was what morrison told me after it happened he. He invited her to stay on as foreign minister. She says the invitation was half hearted. She wasn't convinced that he really wanted in her there in any case and he says that the reason she left with because she couldn't bear to be in the same room as cormon and dutton. She also told me that she was very disappointed. That despite all the troll murder and all the bloodletting that dutton in and coleman had inflicted on the government. They paid no penalty whatsoever. They ended up in exactly the same positions that they had before so so what happened in that week kind of destroyed the faith i think of a lot of people in the liberal party and and the way it operated christopher pyne was another who ended up leaving now on his way out he made a very gracious concession speech which was funny and empathetic and all that but he'd been saying to people that he just thought it was a hateful place parliament parliament hypoplastic hype applies. How did he try to reach out sumatra's coleman afterwards given that they'd been so furiously opposed during this crosses pine told me that <hes> at the swearing in when morrison was spent swearing in he couldn't even bring himself to look at korman. He was so disgusted with him so miserable about what had happened at dinner. Afterwards six weeks went by why and this is christmas version. I'm a nas guy. Christopher says and i felt sorry for him. I could see what an effect it it had had on him personally like he had an still pays a big price for what he did in terms of loss of respect and dignity amongst people so pine felt sorry for him and took him to dinner at the commonwealth club and asked him <hes> he did it. It's quite interesting actually because home instead because authority had the numbers dutton had the numbers to win christopher said so what malcolm made you you should have stuck with him. No matter what like you said you would but why that's interesting thing is because <hes> sometime later kalman also had dinner with steve chabot who was a mutual friend with dutton and and whom dutton had convinced to come on board for the challenge because coleman had done the numbers and was convinced that he would would be able to topple tumble and they had dinner together in in davos and and chabot asked corne about this and common said no. I never thought he had the numbers so once again different stories to different stories on the eve of the second ballot which made scott morrison friendly to you describe how he stewart robert. He's principal numbers mental saporta one of its principal numbers men. They prayed together. What did they pray for meeting. This was actually on the morning of the ballot. Literally a few minutes before morrison was due to walk from his office to the party room for the ballot stuart stuart robertson everyone else away and they had a few moments together in the office and they prayed that righteousness would booed exalt the nation for a non christian. What does that mean. Will i asked robert. You know what that meant. Whether that meant that if morrison won it would mean that brought to snus had prevailed and <hes> he kind of dodged urged but i guess that is the meaning of it and then as morrison left his office and walk dirt. He walked past the receptionist. A young lady called mill and said to mel. Please text my family and asked them to pray for me so obviously worth it. Several liberal women had said afterwards that they've been some pretty fierce bullying from the mile numbers men in various various camps. Did you find out there was much truth to that allegation. Dickey jane hume was at the center of some of this stuff and her pre-selection for the senate had not been sorted and <hes> she was contacted by michael suka. Who's now back on the front bench. He's a victorian quote. Powerbroker unquote a big supporter of dutton's to in this yes very close to dushan and and he basically told her if you vote for dutton your pre-selection will be reassured in other words if you don't vote for you'll have trouble coupled with your selection of threats are pretty commonplace in the world of politics they when you're trying to get the numbers for things but was there anything morstead. Is it <hes> i'm i don't know about commonplace. I think you know it came as quite a shock to her a for instance for to put so bluntly in so boldly lately. You know you do what we tell you or else. You won't have a job and then she was also called by michael kroger who is then state the president and he advised her to go round and see matijas coleman and whatever coleman did she should do. What coleman did is will that stage. Coleman head defected from terminal two dutton. You'd have to be following. His twitter feed pretty closely. What uh-huh wouldn't you and then and then another of her colleagues said to her that she would have to show him her ballot to prove that she he had voted the right way. Now i think that's bullying. I think it seem intimidation and i think it goes beyond the bounds and they obviously did two two women did as well and said miles also complained about julia banks complained about it and linda reynolds stood up in the senate asia and exposed at all so. I don't think it comes from nowhere. I think there were making it up in a sort of showed quite a serious cultural old problem inside the liberal party komarov said one thing to one person nothing to another person nothing to the meteor another thing to the prime minister another thing to whoever i suppose throughout this period you can say that scott morrison said that he wouldn't run if tumble ran and he didn't he said he hadn't triggered a spill bill and he hadn't has really been fundamentally dishonest hit your imagination or is he been pretty. I mean there's there's been sort of interesting trusting use of words here and there but as has been dishonest in any way here on the surface he was doing everything properly below below the surface. He knew exactly what he's people were doing and why they were doing it so he could appear on the surface as s. If he had clean hands that was the whole point so that he could come out of it looking like a clean skin while he's mates. Did all the dirty work. How 'bout tumblers a strategist. How do you rate him threat this period well. He's not there. He's doomed anyway. Do you think well he was doomed. From from that first meeting. When the vote was thirty five against him there was no way that he could recover from that now. Maybe it would would have been better if he'd taken a different approach and instead of vacating his position head actually called out the people who were trying to bring him mundane and see whether they had you know the guts to do anything about it. He might have board himself some time but look abbas was determined to get him from day one from the very day that he lost the leadership and he never lit up it susan your story though it's interesting up until the point is what ending and undermining and what handing and undermining but the moment win stepped up and really challenged at that point tony seems to have almost no impact on this story really doesn't he doesn't seem to replay it other than as a kind of a minor nuisance to everyone else in the party will accept that he was the specter of what could happen and like i say they were people who had promised gotten after that first ballot that they they would vote for him and then changed their minds after they heard that abbott was going to be reinstated to the front bench they did not want abbott back in any way shape or form so he actually cost darton votes but the scenario for abbott and the people who supported him like your ellen joneses and and so on what they thought would happen was that it data would win the ballot lose the election and then create the opening for abbott to come back to to the leadership and lead them back to glorious victory. That was the plan that was when i was saying plan was a fantasy option right. That's that's what accounting being on but they didn't count on marson being so clever and they didn't count on the moderates being so ruthless and sacrificing bishop to to make sure that dutton never got up to the plan then just simply switch latest insofar as was he then hoping that morrison would lose the election so he might come up again in opposition leader added also never had any time for morrison at all and in fact blamed morrison for the the first spill against his leadership in two thousand fifteen the empty chair spill he thought morrison had played a big part in that art and also helped undermine abbott by refusing to take the treasury portfolio that he was offered and he didn't swing morrison did not swing his numbers behind abbott so there was a lot of bad blood there. How do these colleagues feel. After abbott lost his civil ringer in the federal election designedly steagall they would have been a handful who were devastated but most the more rejoicing there were glad he was gone so we come to election night and scott. Morrison wins one of those extraordinary victories that very few people. I can't think of anyone actually had had predicted outside of his own party. The seem to come sub profound shock got to every commentator and election night. He said i've always believed in miracles. I've always believed in miracles. Does that tell you anything about his. He's motivation and the source of self belief. I think it does <hes> his faith is real and it is fundamental to to him the night before the election he sent a text message to josh frieden berg to thank him for everything that he had done and they done everything that they could and finished up by saying it is now in god's hands and i believe in miracles so the these are not sort of throwaway lines that you know he just puts out. There is a way of marketing himself. He does do a lot of marketing acquitting of himself but he's faith is real. The other thing that was interesting. I thought during the campaign was when he allowed the cameras into his church on easter sunday and we saw those images of him on his feet with his arms raised is closed receiving the holy spirit. Was that an accidental. The campaign or planned aspect took the campaign. Do you think i think it was planned and at the time when i was speaking to labor party people they thought it would work against him right. They thought in the research showing that people thought he was a bit of a bible basher an australian have never really warmed to bible bashes. You know there's always been in a kind of skepticism but i think that is <hes> changing in parts and i think it sent a signal to people of faith breath that they were safe with him. There was some early research after the election by the new which showed that in liberal oh held seats with very high christian populations. There are a lot larger swings to the liberal party then in other seeds aids so they think there is a connection and that seems to be borne out by the comments of some prominent labor party figures subsequently including chris spelling. We said the labor party has to find a way to speak to people of faith. The liberal party loves a winner like anybody does particularly the liberal party. They have this thing that they call the few auto prints. It works there. You win an election in particular one against the odds. It works strongly in your favor. Religious conservatives won the leadership of the liberal party scott morrison. The alito won an election and he didn't heidi's beliefs as you say. He was allowed himself to be filmed in pentecostalist moment there. Does this mean the battle. This battle. We spoke of the battle battle for the soul of the liberal party is over. I mean the religious conservatives and now the predominant election winning faction in that party. I don't know that it's <music> over. I think it's going to continue but i think certainly the conservatives are in the ascendancy when it comes to the base of the liberal party and the way to counter that influence is to out stack them so if this decking you should be stacking more so let's let's see if they can energize themselves to increase their membership from the more progressive side but i'm not very optimistic mystic. Let's say that that will happen. I do think that the liberal party is changing. It has changed and it will continue to change. I i think it will turn into a capital sake conservative party. That's how i say it right to speak with you once again nikki and thank you so much thank you ever is the author of plots praise malcolm turnbull's demise and scott morrison ascension. I'm richard fidler. Thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with richard fidler for more conversations interviews. Please go to the website a._b._c. dot net dot a._u. Slash conversations <music> discover more great a._b._c. Podcasts live radio and explosives on the a._b._c. Listen up.

peter dutton scott morrison liberal party malcolm turnbull prime minister parliament morrison matisse coleman liberal party malcolm senate christopher pyne turnbull dutton morrison morrison coleman stewart robert nikki george brandis turnbull john howard
Episode 75  #BlackFaceTrudeau and Canadian white supremacy

Sandy and Nora talk politics

51:52 min | 1 year ago

Episode 75 #BlackFaceTrudeau and Canadian white supremacy

"Assistance are as any last week made a prediction in that our elections are really boring. I really don't like eating ship. You don't have to eat too much shit on this prediction. The prediction was a fair prediction. We didn't see what was coming. Okay okay before we get into it. She should be shadowed some of our children our new patron. Yeah I mean. People are responding like doc really amazingly to the show and so thank you so so so so much for that And I mean just in the past Couple of days even Mm I want to show folks who've donated to us the first time or who've changed her donations so thank you so much to Sam to Raden Mike. Jillian crystal and FROGGY bear Jamie Anna. Nicole Nicole maybe we caught last week. We'll see again if we did anyway. So thank you so so so much your your support support means a lot to us Literally because you know it helps us pay for hosting in the website and transcriptions and our equipment so You make take this possible. We sound good because of you and we can do it with. Oh you so thank you. Thank you and no things to the current Canadian Canadian government. You're like just we need to get into this. I want to also remind people October twelfth at the Tarragon Theatre. We're doing a live. Yes so yeah will link it to this episode. It's linked to last week's episode as well and you have to get tickets. I think the tickets are actually going pretty quickly so make sure you get your tickets. They don't cost anything there there just for capacity so see you in a couple weeks Toronto Sandy takeaway so Ooh some things happen and I have some things to say. Say about them. Know a few things okay. So obviously you've all been waiting. I'm sure waiting like Standing Nora. What do you feel about this and if you follow me on twitter you'll note that might twitter engagement has gone up significantly because it was like like my only? I gotta wait until Sunday to talk to Nora about this so let me just remember that twitter exists and just say all the things those that are on my mind but it wasn't all the things that are on my mind because I I only engage in twitter in a ridiculous way. Here I will try I to be less ridiculous but it might be difficult so Justin Trudeau Canada's Prince America's darling the world leader that everybody wants to Call Bay everyone but the two women housing his podcast no he turns out turns out. He is not all that he portrayed trade himself to be which is such a shock to me. I don't know I don't know who hasn't been paying attention but I know I if you go back to. When he was elected in our podcast I bet me? Say some shit about him being this kind of guy we. We probably didn't say there's probably some black face photos that he's in somewhere in some yearbook. But we probably made allusions to him being this kind of guy because it's so so obvious. It's so obvious so a lot has been set in the last few days and I do want to try to like put a spin on this. That is not something that people have read in the last few days. Well there has been a lot said and a lot of. It's been really good and some of it's been really bad and We are already into a new news cycle and so so you know while this felt like it was the biggest news. We can't believe in so many people are surprised and by the way. Like if you're surprised you need to sit with yourself for like two hours and wonder why because you shouldn't not surprised by this news and so this is going to not probably define next week. Next week will be a completely different issue. Yes which says does a lot and people have been working very hard to make this not matter and to make this go away and so I think for for our task in the show is to see is to explain. What does this expose about who we are as Canadians? What does this expose about the big liberal lie lie? I mean we have a category on this on this podcast called liberal schemes and faulk like doesn't it just feel like this is kind of a scheme like such. I just scheme like I feel like someone's laughing somewhere in in there like coms like we're almost three you guys we totally be totally made it through. This is this was easy. Don't worry we're on track. Yeah exactly exactly because all you had to do was was was making a genuine apology and that was enough for all of the liberal liberal voters and activists and people who are directly involved with the party to say he's apologized let's move on and of course everyone said that in a different way from the liberal side either. This is so bad odd. But he's not a bad person. This is so bad but shears worse. This is so bad but it okay. I actually like. Let's pause there for a second because I do WanNa talk about that. I WanNa talk about the idea of an apology. I did a couple interviews this week because you know the Canadian media and some of the American media remembered that there are black and Brown people in Canada who are writers and thinkers. And we're like. Oh my God let's call them. And so you know I did a couple interviews this week and we're also also smart on other things just so you know and the one of the things that That was consistent. Question in these interviews was okay but he apologized and so now it And like I haven't seen anybody interrogate this quite in a piece so so I want to talk about this like the idea that an apology then puts the onus on the person who was wronged or on the community that was wronged to then then set the stage for what should happen next is correct. It's like yeah we. We should set the stage but the expectation that people people are placing on that community is. What else do you want? That's the question. That is the motivation behind the question. Of what comes next after an apology. Not It's not a genuine. Hey community what else needs to happen for us to really address. What's going on with black and Brown communities? He's in Canada. That's not what people are talking about. They're like he apologized. What else do you want? What sort of the self immolation do you want him to do? In order to move panelists and isn't it isn't it fascinating that that is the first question that comes to mind for so many people is how does he get past this. Rather than how has he hurt you to a community like like that to me is like so fascinating. How the idea of an apology has warped? What what we think about accountability because apologies have become a script in this formula of okay? I've done something wrong now. I know I need to do the public apology to get it out of the media as quickly as possible like that's what's happening it's not. It's not a like a genuine may copa or anything like that. And so what that it does. Is it twists the onus of like. Who Need who is really holding us up here? It's not just in judo. It's these communities. You just can't get it over it and it's like so disgusting. That apologies have been warped to be that yeah. I think that it's a really white white way of thinking about individual relationships that has that has kind of created this narrative because for so many of us these uh-huh these relationships are transactional. And so if I wrong you I can apologize in his in absolve myself. And then that's that's the end of what is expected expected of the person who's in the wrong rather than asking the broader questions like well. Where does the campaign go from here in terms of its commitments to black combranch communities and people in Canada or can we interrogate things that have happened in the past with Justin Trudeau with this knowledge? and think maybe maybe one of the biggest problems of the Liberal Party. Canada is that they are so God damned cynical and how they use identity and how they use people apple to try and hide the the policies that they have which are actually bad in a lot of a lot of circumstances and a lot of cases I mean I don't know. Did you catch the current with with L Jones the other day it is the one current I didn't catch because I know that it's good so I will be listening to it. Yes it was it was. It was definitely worth listening to. It was L. Jones Kamal also lady. WHO's a professor at the at Ryerson University and for some reason for the first time fucking ever? The current was hosted by Rosemary Barton who is dangerously unqualified to talk about this topic and and and so l. was pulling the conversation back to where it needed to be the statistics systemic structural not asking what next what else does Justin Trudeau need to do or is he really a racist or not which is like oh my goodness people like can we think a little harder please. And in L. Reference the fact that under Trudeau were increasing. Deportations Sion's in Canada Borton cut her off and said No. The deportations are increasing because there's been an influx of refugees and then pivoted the the conversation conversation to come out and that was it. Wow which is not true. which is factually not true like L.? Does this work work all the time. She knows what she's talking about and I wouldn't expect her to jump back in and incorrect the host because it's like the dynamics in that situation are difficult and you're trying to stay on top of a lot of different points and get the Moton you know three minutes or format soundbites. But now the fact that Barton was like owner no and then repeated. What is effectively a far-right right? Lie that we've got this this spike in refugee asylum claimants which is like true but the spikes not actually that high if you look at historical trends uh-huh and then under the guise of being welcoming and open to the world. Justin Trudeau is increasing. Deportation amounts by thirty eighty five up to thirty five percent which puts it back to where it was under under Stephen Harper and which is not a response to the number of people come in that is a percentage which is a higher percentage than it had been. It's just. It's this kind of stuff that that Canadians religion need to ask themselves. Does it fucking matter. If Justin Trudeau seems Nice seems with it. Seems like he's not racist and seems like he's not sexist. Or is that a complete distraction from what the real issues are which is that. The Liberal Party of Canada is maintaining maintaining a system that subjugates people that requires people to be subjugated to continue to operate. If you WANNA look at resource extraction and and their purchase of of transmission TRANSCO pipeline. And all we have our journalists who are able to ask the most basic question like okay. So he's apologized now one. Yeah it's like you. You know I just kept thinking back to that photo of all of The press on Justin Trudeau's campaign train or plane the Liberals Campaign plane. And I'm just like none of these people are going to know or remember some of the very important issues that have been affecting black and brown communities in this country to be able able to throw that into the question mix which is like okay. Justin Trudeau participates in this super racist cultural like expression expression of anti blackness. Right which informs like how he feels about black and Brown people like some people may not believe that but but it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not there is a record that shows that that is the case like what's fascinating about all this he puts on this costume but he's been like wearing black and brown an indigenous people as a costume as part of his brand for like forever for like. Yeah yeah he puts he uses these communities and the Liberal Party uses these communities as a cloak. There's an article that came out today where former former liberal staffer reveals that they used to talk about communities of color color as ethnic vote banks and that he had to leave because of the way that he felt that he was being Tokaido and How racist they were at at the top of the Liberal Party? It's like this is not. This is not some weird off and the the the evidence of that is everywhere. The other thing thing that I was hearing a lot in some of these these questions that people were asking was like related to the apology thing is like isn't this just cancelled culture like if if if like we get rid of Justin Trudeau Canada's rants like isn't that just like getting rid of of someone for no reason not actually looking deep into who he really is and Just like canceling him undeserved because because of something he did so long ago like two thousand and one was such a racist time. You know and nobody really knew nobody knew in two thousand and one what black face really was like. Oh so wild. Some of these things that people are saying to me. It's like when I hear these discussions. Uh about cancel culture. What I'm hearing people really want is they want like a simple formula that helps assists decide when we can get over something that somebody has done that may or may not be reprehensible and an objective formula that we can apply to all situations right like? That's what I'm hearing people want but I need people to understand hand that these issues are contextual and complex and there will never be a simple formula for something like this whether someone and should be forgiven or not like. That's it shouldn't be the question but given that so many people are thinking about it like I just I want you to think about it this way like this is complex. There is a history of decisions that the Liberal Party under this leadership and in previous leaderships have made that. Make it very very clear that this is not just about forgiving. Someone who made a simple boom mistake one time. I WANNA remind folks who a lot of people keep reminding me you know. He's so good on refugees. That policy changed when the majority of of refugees started to become black when they were Haitian all of a sudden the doors to Canada started to close. Okay like I want people to remember that. He pointed Bill Blair notoriously anti black police chief from Toronto to his Cabinet and Bill Blair. There was speaking just last week as he tried to do. His pivot around how he's not anti-black and change the channel when he announced announced his criminalization of gun possession in in Toronto Danforth area. It's like there's there's a history of things that this the government has done under his leadership and I just named to. There's so much more and way more on the indigenous file as well like this this is consistent and so if if this is a concern if this like is consistent with his previous engagement that treats Black Brown indigenous people as lacking full humanity. Then why would you even ask the the question we were being asked to believe. Before was that. Oh you know like he had to change these policies. Because there's there's too much and just wait. He'll he'll change these policies around Policies in the North with indigenous folks. Later like we. You just need to wait and all of that like you know. We're being told that he's truly a good person and we just need to wait. Well now we have some proof you've that perhaps that's not what's actually happening. Perhaps we're just the lowest priority that he has and quite frankly. I don't know why we would do anymore. Gymnastics to try to absolve this man of what has been a consistent pattern of engagement with communities of color her. Yeah the bigger problem I think. Is that when you start to. Even go out from him. His inner circle to other ministers who he's very close to this pattern is unlike consistently there as well and so I think for people who are like. Oh my God. There's an election and I have to park my vote somewhere. It's really difficult to to appreciate. Just how deep the rot does go within the Liberal Party and then reconcile that with their fear that Andrew Scheer might win of which is a a differently rotten party right and I I like when you were talking. I was thinking about especially about what Trudeau and Bill Blair have done in their hypocrisy. I was thinking about a speech that I was just at of Christiane Freeland who who was like first of all. I have a very hard time listening to her. Because I I I actually want to like put forks in my in my ears when I when I listen to her talk she was like trying to explain that the liberal order order is crumbling and that we need to fight for the middle class and this is what the Liberal Party of candidates going to do with no sense of irony that the Liberal Party of Canada has played a massive role in why there is a crisis of affordability. Why there is of a crisis of home ownership while there's a crisis of of Like fuck you can name so many things that have been that of inches pounding Canadians regardless of the cost of their in. Of course it's been hurting people who have less money and she's just like yes. We're GONNA fight that and it's like you're also selling weapons to Saudi Arabia you're also intervening in Venezuela you're also chummy with Bolsonaro like sewri. Sorry but we can fucking see we see this and so when when I saw so many people surprised about the the the pictures with Trudeau. I I was wondering like maybe people still haven't seen enough behind that mask behind the liberal. Party's really actually trying to accomplish. Well I mean of course not like the media has been a partner the Liberal Party in all of this like Time Time magazine broke the story Time Magazine. It was incredible. Oh my goodness it's it's. It's absolutely incredible that it was Time magazine. So much of what you're talking about are just small stories in the. That is the Canadian media landscape. It's like why why. Why are people surprised? Because we haven't been really delivered the truth on some of this stat like sandy and Nora Right. Enjoy looking for it. Because you know it's there Yeah we can find it right but it's it doesn't make massive news at these are decisions that our government is making that hurts these communities communities and so yeah. I think that that's right. That people haven't really seen behind the mask. Well let's talk about like you mentioned people who are like Like like the alternative sheer. There's nothing we can do but we must forgive Trudeau because otherwise we get the worst alternative which is sheer. Let's talk about this year. Mongers good line as a good little word. I liked it it to think I one of the things that's also kind of occurred to me in the last couple of days is the reality that I think I think that the honeymoon about Trudeau and who he is and all this kind of stuff. Jeff is pretty much gone right that if people were voting for Justin Trudeau in two thousand fifteen that is not the narrative that is emerging this election that people are going to be voting liberal because has either they're voting strategically or because they are a liberal or whatever but it's not actually because of Justin Trudeau which then means that when he has a transgression like this. It's kind of easy to ignore because because you never you're never really voting for him in the first place but this goes back to something that we've talked about a lot on the show. which is that at the end of the day? These both parties need to be fought. Both parties need to be confronted and both parties are differently. Bad they're differently. Bad and the outcome is like like I used to explain this to to folks when I was in the student movement. Where like what's the difference between someone who is like Is like beating beating you and stealing your money or someone. Who's just slowly stealing your money but apologizing for it every every fucking time? They still your money like that. That's the difference between these two parties. And so you know you wanna tell me that the that it is so critical that we stop Andrew Scheer well first of all. There's a third party. There's a fourth party in Quebec. There's a fifth party There are options. And even if your vote is not gonna be cast for the person who wins guests fucking what it never is. I mean gene. We're also lied to by the party that they would change the voting system which they didn't do so like people have to get out of their minds that that the election is going to dictate the priorities of the party's going forward once they're elected and what I mean by that is like we we make the priorities. We're the ones that are supposed to be forcing certain priorities and certain perspectives or whatever into action and whether that's a majority Jordy government are minority government and it looks like we might be minority territory so people should feel good actually about not necessarily voting for power like we will have have to be there no matter fucking what. And if you're telling me that sheer is so much worse than Trudeau in the face piece of these images like let me remind you at Trudeau represents. He represents an elite extraordinarily wealthy section of Canadian society that wants to pay his as low taxes as possible. That doesn't necessarily want to see people die in the streets but isn't GonNa do much to help. Stop that from happening either. So I have a real hard time with the sheer mongering telling everybody that we this doesn't matter because sheer is so so much worse their cut from the same cloth. They're all we're all. We're all living in the same fucking tapestry in this country and guess fucking what they all come from the same kinds of problems problems that we will have to confront no matter what I also think that people need to understand like how Canadian democracy works like so much of our our media and understanding of politics comes from the American political landscape. And you know that's not our fault like our education. Asian system doesn't really attempt to to make us understand how Canada works and American influences everywhere but a lot of people have been talking about. Like cheers the alternative shoes. The alternative as though that really is the only alternative as it would be in the the United States in this like two party system. But it's like so it's not the only alternative here now like there. There are several different types of configurations. That could happen and frequently do happen especially if we have a minority government situation which this could be leading us into and so for people who are like literally there's nothing else but sheer like open your minds remember how we got healthcare in this country. Remember how we got the pension implant in this country these things. If you don't know maybe just look it up at like fucking education system should be teaching this shit but it was minority governments. That brought these massive kind of social policy changes through where the balance of power was held by the end EP. And so just like think. Do you like what the the liberal response to all of this shit. All the time is like hat. You guys have no choice but to not hate us because otherwise you get the real racists racists Andrew Scheer and sheer will be like you have to vote for us because you know you're gonNA get way worse than the Liberals if you vote for the MVP or the Greens or whatever maxime. Brignone is really trying to stay relevant. But we don't need him anymore we've got other racists and it's like these aren't the only options the fact that they're telling us. This is a tactic and people need to understand it as a tactic. It's tactic to make you ignore the other options that could force a a government that could truly get us something like childcare. That could truly get us. Something like Pharma Care. Like if here's like here's another promise right like the liberals made like the put forth Pharma Care like where is it. Yeah like if they wanted to do it they had a majority government. They're probably we're going to have a majority government anymore going into the fall if they wanted to do this type of shit all the stuff that they're saying like their record is so good on they would've fucking done in it. They have no intention of doing these things that are like so hard and really expensive and it's going to hurt their friends and in these big big businesses is or whatever but if we remember that there is other options that can come from saying actually liberals. You're not GonNa get our vote because you have been. Can you not only have a fucking leader that promotes minstrel see or has engaged in mental minstrel. See You have a history Korea record of decisions that harm black and Brown and indigenous communities so nope not gonNA give it to you and force a a rise in other parties getting Votes at that could form a minority government like remember that that is another the option that has happened in this country not infrequently. That's right I mean. The the opposition to people voting in DP at at this point is is completely flimsy like it just comes down to prejudice and night. I mean prejudice like in general against the EP and likely direct prejudice against Jagmeet. Singh the leader of the EP. And so I though all of the people who are just so gung Ho about the Liberal Party I mean this is your fault this is you are making aching palatable someone who should not be made palatable and and you know nothing about Troodos ascendancy in this party has been a surprise at one. The things that I'm not sure anyone really has focused on in the in the the pictures and then also in how he has used feminism in the same way to say that. He's a feminist administered shit. I need that offers picture came out like the way he had his hand around the woman's neck. I'm not sure that he noticed that I sure sure did. Yeah Yeah I was just thinking back to my high school like if I had ever seen a picture in the yearbook of a teacher with his hand around someone's neck whether that women's astuter senior another teacher doesn't really matter I slake. Wow this is the kind of guy that likes steers his girlfriend holding the back of her neck. My brother always said you gotta be careful those guys because you know there's something wrong with them street and and he did that and he did that so well on feminism and no one really noticed. I know one really called him out. Certainly the international media was all about how wonderful it is to have this feminist prime minister And and the Canadian media was like lapping up. I mean it wasn't until maybe two or three years later that people are like. Oh maybe he's not really feminist. Let's take a look at his at his policies or whatever and And and so you have to ask yourself how. How many times am I willing to be played by Federal Party? How many times like is it? The worst case scenario at the end EP is that they get elected they've foothold government and nothing happens because they can't figure out how to get stuff through because they've never empower. That's literally the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that can happen with the Liberals is that deportations continue to go up that we continue to fund our war Our war commitments around the world and to the tune of billions of dollars that nothing continues to happen. People people are still priced out of their homes and they're still price to the communities. I mean that's the worst that can happen with liberals and the thing is it's like the whole like don't don't switch vote from you know because sheer will get into power. It's like even just mathematically that doesn't make sense if the idea is that all the liberal voters people who who voted liberal before are then going to vote and DP and that gives the Conservatives a majority that doesn't that doesn't work because has it still means the majority of voters voted for a liberal and DP and so it's a minority government so stop listening to that bullshit. Just stop listening to it. It doesn't make sense. Yeah Yeah Yeah totally now this week also of course was a super bad. We've looted. This already bows a super bad week. For the FA media flicky he media and I think we've probably have to focus on that for the rest. Well I have I have. I do have one more thing to say. One more thing to say to the listeners. Okay I it's been like so weird to see how many people are willing to forgive this and to even like argue you that it wasn't racism to just be like but it's not racist. It's like Justin Trudeau. It's saying that it's racist and the man who did it is like I was racist and people are like is is it. Racism is it two thousand and one was a different time and like this is in black. Face he was just trying to be allowed in and Oh there are other incidents incidents. Okay well you know he was really like. Is it racism. If he didn't know he's he's from Quebec like all of this equivocating and I've had like I'm like this is bizarre to see how many people are equivocating on it like I. It's it's bizarre like I shouldn't be surprised prized anymore on this stuff but like it's just like he has admitted it and still people are arguing about this and I have to wonder if it's because people people see themselves in this act and someone who I am a friend with on facebook posted something that was like like the most revealing thing for me to to read in all of the discussions that have been happening in the week and he posted something that was like I was wondering why people were having a hard time accepting that this is racism and then I remembered some of the things that we used to do in camp and I went to Camp Kampfer When I was young where a mostly wealthy white boys would be going to and we engaged in some Pretty unsavory like official camp activities. That are racist and so he posts this is like and so perhaps people all are are seeing themselves in this and are having a hard time but it is racist and so on and then some folks begin responding in the comments and they're like yeah To also engaged in this type of thing in camp. Oh my camp used to do this and I'm like Oh okay so I think that part of the problem is that people. We'll see this and see like understand that it's actually in the fabric of What it means means to have grown up white and in Canada the this is something that people may have engaged in or concede themselves in and I think that people really need to have like some serious reflection time on that like is that? What's really going on? I think it might be well. And this is where like if we had a media that could actually reckon with this properly and not probably be filled with shame because of all of the black face memories memories in their own closet that they have like. There's no question that a Canadian white identity is premised on on white supremacy and whether that's the premacy as direct as in you are better than people who are not white or it's indirect as in you have a right to do what you want to this land. You have a right to access whatever you want access in this this country that you you are here and this is your your thing for the taking. That's all white supremacy but the problem is is that it is so so ubiquitous that that actually identifying that for people who in good faith don't WanNa find out that they've actually been engaged in white supremacy figuring out ways for us to talk about that is not that easy or it takes a bit of a skill that are that the that the national press landscape is not ought equipped to take on because their job instead is to launder Canadian identity where there continue consistently placing whiteness as is the norm and non whiteness as being outside of the norm or bizarre or something for us to be fearful of and the fact that we we have so few options we white people have so few options to talk about the stuff and to understand how this forms every single thing about our daily daily interactions. What we understand about the school system where we understand about our own experiences in the school system how it relates to our implication to ongoing going genocide or to ongoing colonialism? I mean this is. This is what I think. Is the most frightening for elites. And why it's been so bad that this discussion. She has focused so much. Justin Trudeau is racist or nod. Or is he story is he. Not Sorry is because the implications are so massive for Canadians and because has there so massive. I think that's also why so. Many liberals are able to say so easily while this is not a big deal because it's just this is just how it is in Canada and You know when someone engages in something like this. It's not it's not racist because they didn't have an understanding of being racist and I I'm not sure how we get out of this like short of like like sticking dynamite to the doors of certain national newspapers in this country like it's it is a it is a an existential crisis assists. I think for white candidates to come to terms with their own location in this and then once you come to terms your location and it using that location to actually talk talk about this with other people and to make sense of it for other people because one of the ways assisted. Systemic racism remained so entrenched in. Canada is because the white majority he can claim honestly or they can lie about it. They don't see it and when you see you don't see it and someone says they see it then. The discussion becomes well then. They're lying that that's not really true. That's not really what it's like and I think that that I think that that's probably the biggest part of what Canadian identity is right now like that is that is they. Cut like at the core of who we white people are in Canada and getting us out of that mindset or that box is not easy especially because political forces are are are exploiting it for us to stay even further in that box and close our eyes to what's going on and and to be even more intensely clinging onto this white identity that That when you look at objective is actually meaningless. Yeah the other thing that we can focus on for the last little bit too is is what should organizations be doing because some some organizations have put out some statements. Yeah some words some some some words on a screen or paper. That don't really say same much and I like it is truly disappointing to me. Because you know. I don't know that we've had something something. Such a mishap of of these staggering proportions in this country's Political Lewinsky. Before have we. Is there something else that matches us in both. It's it's stupidity like racism and like like worldwide. Reach each of like utter ridiculousness. I on the radio classically. One white reporter was saying that he was kind of reminded of when blend is drawn across the floor. That's not the same he. He made it. He made it clear that it didn't come to close. That was all he could think of. I think I heard that I think I think I heard that I know what you're talking about. What a segment you were talking about but yeah there's nothing and so? We are creating the precedent for what happens next right like we're we're we're creating the the scripts for what happens when ultimately the liberals finally find something on the Conservatives that are just as bad to to put out. Because I know that that's what they're all working on right now or when when you know. Our our political system goes just to shit as like others and we get a a true fascist in and we need to respond to some shit right like this is. We're creating the blueprint. I'm not okay with this blueprint. And and the blueprint that's being created these these organizations that are putting out statements that are like what a what a learning moment. What a great teachable moment for Canadians Medians? We truly hope we acknowledge that Justin Trudeau has apologized and now we hope that the Liberal Party will will work work to do more as we all should but elect them. I that is that is the tenor sort of most of these statements. That are coming out. which is unfair fucking believable to me? It's unbelievable perhaps. They're just wondering what they should be he doing. I don't know but y'all like if this is like I'm you there. He should not be allowed to retain leadership. I'm sorry he shouldn't like the whole top of the Liberal Party should be falling down right now. Like I don't understand why people are allowing this to go through and the way to do that. The Way to force a change on this matter if you're truly as an organization interested in making that happen it's not to put out a statement that says literally nothing like just don't waste your calms people's Times like put out a statement that says something like we will not meet with the leadership of the Liberal Party on some issues until you show us that you're changing and one of those things is to commit to this that the other like make make them commit to certain policy changes inches and tell them that he's gotta go like be forceful on this stuff like like you folks are powerful as organizations Whether it's like policy organizations or labor organizations or what have you like you folks are powerful like you are what props up the Liberal Party like people point to you to say see. They're not that upset with us. They just want us to get a little bit better and as a result we they are still good like you are important so say something of import like use your power to shift. What's happening in the Liberal Party? Otherwise what good are you combine. This precedent sucks. Yeah especially because from like even purely strategic political perspective like now is when they need to pivot to something good like now is is literally your best chance to get a promise that is of fundamental promise or that could that. It'd be transformational or something like that. You know they already pivoted to gun control and even the gun control. Promise is not what Canada needs. It doesn't go far enough. No no Oh that's a whole other thing that we maybe should talk about later but like it was just so I was like gun control really. That's that's what they're gonNA put it to and and there's not a strong enough organization out there to say why that doesn't make sense well and you know what I want to say like police SUV. Zhang has been doing that work They'd do it in English and French. That's the group of survivors from Echo Polytechnic of the shooting. The in at in December six on December sixth nineteen thousand nine. But it's not enough and and the in the the connections that have to be made in this country between These like quote unquote tough on crime and gun control and all this stuff and then the actual reality that's existing within our cities which is what poverty boredom Lots of social problems that are being fueled by an out of control market. That is pushing people out of their homes and pushing people to extremes. I mean there is nothing as we speak on the show. There is nothing about the cost of living in this budget in this budget. Oh my God in this election. There's nothing for renters. There's nothing about how fucking hard has become to live in a lot of these cities and and gun control is connected to that. Crime is connected to that and all we've got his bill fucking Blair who it would be impossible to expect Bill Blair to come up with the policy that doesn't and sock and so if you're an organization right now right those fucking policies and give it to them and say we expect we expect you to adopt these things. We expect you to change your policies on this this kind of stuff because too often civil society is just kind of looked at politics. And it's like well. This is their game. They have their own strategy. They already have their platform figured out. But it's like no no now is the time that you actually can influence fluence that and and if you also can call for the for the resignation of the leader over something that has been so internationally focused on and and proof if that he's really not a great prime minister. Yeah where you gotTa do it do it. Gosh like could you imagine working in the organization where you have to meet with him in the fall as like if I if I was like I got elected and then I had to like sit in a meeting with him in December December. I'd be like Oh it's you the black face one like I. It's just so I don't want no have you have you before I don't think so. No I don't think so so I got dragged into meeting with him When we were in the student movement and I remember the meeting very very well because we were making arguments but how expensive higher education is and all this kind of stuff and he looked at Straight straight in the face and he's like I had to work to pay off my a higher education. You can do it too. I know it's hard but you just have to work really hard. He said he he said excuse. Who what it would you talk? Yeah Yeah and I remember. I was like I was like look. Here's the difference. Did you say we are. Yeah I was like your father was a Prime Minister Canada. My my father. Great Man Librarian I he's library. Are you like it was it was so clear he was completely Lee out to lunch. On what average people want so like even the obsession with his In his appearance in his in his brand and all this kind of stuff it is hurting the party. Clearly so maybe that's our free advice is Hey where the organizations can't call for it we can say Liberal Party put someone else in there one hundred percent like we all know why he was put there in the first place was falling apart. I mean they probably knew at the time that they made this decision. They're like guys guys we've got but nothing parties falling apart the end. EP is the official opposition. People are saying this is our death. Now what what do we have in our bag of tricks. What's left the name Trudeau? God Damn it. But he's not smart and he's got all this stuff in his past like is let's do. Some political calculus will really matter in the end in this country. We call Canada Canada or will people just look to the Chew Mania and the Prince of this country or whatever and be like this is the man and can we get some people to style him as Canada Bay and they did a political calculus. That was like Yeah we could eat that we eat that shit that he's not smart and we can eat shit that he's done all of this terrible stuff in the best and we'll we'll try to bank on that judo name and it worked okay. You don't need that anymore. It's not working anymore. Just you know pick somebody else. Yeah I do WANNA mention one other thing. And this goes back to my my anger with the media so's listening to CBC radios. The House yesterday morning thing and I don't know do you listen to that show. No I do. Not It is aggravating and I do not recommend anybody listen to it. It is nothing but talking heads talking points from from From politicians who never get challenged but I I tuned in and there was a conversation between Chris Hall the host and Sri Credit Card from from the Toronto Star and Erika Eiffel from another podcast at cool batum bitchy and they're talking about Whether or not meet is to white and it's a great it's a great segment. You should definitely look it up and so they go through this. Yeah so they go through this thing. I mean hall is out of his League and he can't ask the right questions but but Sri like really brings the conversation back to historical roots in that context that we were talking about earlier and it was great and so this segment ends. And I'm like making my coffee and I'm like again ready for the day. Whatever it Saturday morning guess what they follow the segment up with? Oh Fuck I don't know what what would be the what would be the the worst first thing to follow that segment up with or who panel of White Dude. I don't know how `bout one white dude who's running for a AH racist Federal Party. Oh shut maxine really. Are you know it was stunning. It was I was stunned. I I don't expect much from the House but this was unbelievable. And so so Chris Hall Interviews Maksim like asking what he thinks a really tough questions except they're not tough questions because like maxine proud to be racist. Racy can't ask a racist well. Aren't you a bit ashamed to be racist. And it's like well no on the fucking racist. Why would I be ashamed? You're like WHOA. That was good response. Okay next question. So he he Max Bernie was let. I think I might make a complaint to the on this because this is really this was really agrees. He claimed on the questions about immigration. And why do you want to reduce immigration. Bernie's like we can't we can't let in a anymore immigrants there's just not enough Space or some bullshit In Canada. And if you in the halls like well what's your proof that and he says well if you look at Toronto and In Vancouver where they all go. There's a housing crisis and the housing crisis is because there's this influx of immigrants and rather other than saying Whoa. WHOA WHOA that's completely fucking falls? That's a total lie. What you just said was lies? You're lying on the public broadcaster. Chris Okay I want to ask you. You know you. You came into this race. Talking about surf fiscal conservatism and balancing the books. Why don't you focus on that? Isn't that a better message than than focusing on immigration through Tequila so he just allowing am to campaign on the air. That's great that's good great. That's all it was and at the end Chris Halls like wow well this was. We're in for lively debate. And then Bernie as thanks so much Chris for for the practice and it was like two white guys who have absolutely no Fear about what the rhetoric that comes from Bernier is going to do to them so everybody at the fucking house at CBC Fuck You. I hope you're fucking show gets cancelled. I'M GONNA laugh when it gets fucking cancelled because you're fucking fucking it up and I hope that that you guys apologize for that because it was reckless. It was really reckless journalism and especially to gone right from an actually thoughtful interesting conversation. Only because of the guests that you had on the air by the way not because of of the talent of Chris Hall to go from that into into interview with Maxim Bernie was so classic. CBC that I was like Oh my God are you kidding me. So that's my little rant dear media get it together get like change your newsrooms. It is not difficult like these people are smart these. He's black and Brown folks. These indigenous folks. They are smart. They will make the news better and you won't have to keep being embarrassed by a reckless shitty content content sir. Yeah it took

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The splintering of the Coalition

Between The Lines

29:07 min | 1 year ago

The splintering of the Coalition

"This is an ABC podcast. Get welcome to between the lines on Tom Switzer. All is great too, heavy company. Well today on the program, liberals splintering, how often have you heard about the defections and departures from the left end of the liberal party spectrum while in fact, the major defections attacking place on the right side of the coalition parties and the splintering, well, that's Lockley to have a legislative impact. Remember in twenty sixteen nearly a million conservatives could not stomach, Malcolm Turnbull. So they voted for alternative parties and deed, many lifelong liberals even preference lineup and that nearly cost the coalition office after being in power for only one term and one of the major bell grounds in the upcoming. Newsouth whilst election will be that for the house after mosh Twenty-three mono- on the rot. They luckily to hold the balance of power, so as the liberal national coalition, increasingly. Splinters? What's the objective of one nation, the Liberal Democrats, and the Australian conservatives Mark life is one nation candidate for the New South Wales up house? He's also a former federal labor later. Great to have you back on between the law and mock, thanks very much. Tom Corey Benatti is leader of the Australian conservatives and Senator he's a former liberal holiday Corey very good and David limbic is the newly elected liberal Democratic Party member in the Victorian legislative council. Welcome to the program, David hot, Tom NASA. Now, let's start with how each of you got to where you are now, politically and philosophically Mark your former vigil, I believe throughout the two thousand four election campaign. You were the darling of the metropolitan sophisticates a few years ago you join the L D P. Now, you're a one nation candidate for the New South Wales up a house. How do you can't your audio odyssey? Well, there are many issues, Tom, but I think generally. I would think that I've stayed pretty well stabling terms of minority logical position. Join the live party forty years ago, because I had a great believe in meritocracy that if we provide good social and economic opportunities for people and pick jobs promotions roles in society based on merit. We could have the good society that would be a genuine social democratic objective. And I still believe in that tonight, forty years lighter meritocracy, whereas unfortunately, live or another lift of Santa parties have moved to a system of identity politics, which instead of judging H individual on their merit. They work ethic that community contribution there night quality as an individual. They judging them on rice, gender and sexuality and these categories. I believe our betrayal of the ideals that people like Whitlam and hawks it for the live party, by diner, tree, social, democracy and social Justice. It's really. My opposition to identity politics that has seen me arrive in one nation, but it's more that live as moved to the left. They've very much allied green party and as long as they johnke meritocracy and embrace identity politics. They weren't have more support. Not I think they'll achieve their objects. What Ronald Reagan said when he left the Democrats joined the Republicans, he said, I didn't leave my party my party, lift me, well to some extent, but I think most people would acknowledge over the past dick item in particular politics. China fundamentally there's been a collapse in the quality of leadership since the defeat of the Howard government twelve years ago, the embrace of identity issues led to a transformation on I this is an example. But who would have thought in the news, we have this week that significant number of employees would be leaving the British live party on the grounds of racism and anti semitism story. And it just shows you the. Impact of identity politics is in fact, a new form of racism practiced by the lift and for me, that's the part of the beliefs. I had decades ago and the beliefs I still today now Corey Benatti you, of course, we're leading conservative voice in the liberal potty room both opposition and government. And yet you came to believe like many liberals and conservatives that Malcolm timbale was not in Margaret Thatcher's pollens one of us you think about Saif schools. Six nineteen see superannuation changes, I'm six marriage climate energy policy. All that. So term was clearly out of kilter with conservatives irreparably. So and there was no point in prolonging the egging. That's why they got rid of him the question now that term has left. The potty remain parliament. What you Corey return to the liberal party? I lift the liberal party not because of Malcolm timbale, but because of what the party has become end. I realized that it had lost its moral compass lost its anchor, and my odyssey hasn't been as great as max. But I haven't moved jot or tittle in in my views about how the world should function in the role of government. I believe that, you know, Texas should be lower and government should be limited are think that civil society is really important free enterprise is worth fostering, and developing, and I realized that when tiny Abbott became prime minister, and he advocated in the potty room that he we should be putting Texas up that the potty had probably lost a little bit of its underlying underpinning ethos when there were movements within the party room to have big spending social welfare programs using borrowed money when they funded safe schools and keep going on and on and on. I realized that. It wasn't about the leadership so much. It was about what the potty itself had become it ceased to stand for the things that it previously had and David Lindberg, your new to Representative politics. You recently were elected to the Victorian legislative council. What's your ideological, pedigree, our party and myself, we'd be called libertarian classical liberal party? And so we believe that people should be free to act free from interference of government as long as they not harming other people. And so I've always had this belief in personal freedom. But since around two thousand I've noticed, and and sort of echo a lot of the sentiments of markan Corey that governments have been getting larger and more dangerous interfering with the economy watching IVA people's lives. We've seen a lot more things like, you know, with the daughter and things like this way, they treating SAT as if all potential suspects, and you know, as I say, my no-go space, you know, you don't have to look at much history. See the danger of government getting out of control. And so I believe there's a market for people who believe in freedom, and limited government k now they seems to be a bit of overlap here. Rule broadly market-oriented yet, Mark one nation. You know, it has been described as protectionist anti-foreign investments, and even agrarian socialist. How would you reconcile these positions with your long standing support for market economy? Well, parties, China and evolve all time and one nation did I has leading market by advocates lock Malcolm Roberts heading up. The Senate ticket in Queensland myself heading up the site ticket in use out wiles. And if you look at our major policy in terms of impact on the economy, it is the governments to do list middle less in the energy market, Al policy. New South Wales is to abolish the ID five dollars electricity tax to end the grow subsidy of renewable. Stop picking winners doctrine indicate the energy. It was all is practices have resulted in higher prices and less energy security. I've been a disaster and. You know, again, Al policy and energy deregulation, abandoned, the prohibition on nuclear power and even uranium mining, and you south wiles very much policies that I've been up the energy market for more sources of power generation, which provides energy security helps the drive down prices in the medium term most of the one nation initiative. You're talking about her in the past or they are nation building policies in Queensland where topical again, one of the things the parties interested in water capture in Queensland to to help with alleviating drought. And obviously doing something that'll the water that's been wasted. In the in. Terrible floods they've headed north Queensland in recent times. So I think one nation has changed in that regard. And I'm entirely comfortable, particularly with the New South Wales. Policies were advocating significantly regulation and freeing up energy market and Koi ninety. How would you distinguish the ustralian conservatives from site the liberal party on economics? Well, I want to fully embrace what Mark has just said. Because the abandonment of subsidies for new Ables, the the allowance of nuclear energy and Scifo and let the MAC Rippin the energy sector, for example, part about ethos an L policy position where I will defer is that Mack may hold these positions. But what one nation has done. Federally is is pos- apart from that. If I may say, they are advocating for the government to build call for pastime, Malcolm Roberts, voted for emissions restrictions, full lawnmowers, and wages and things which opens the door to emissions restrictions for motive equals and farm machinery and stuff like this. It goes on and on and on it is about consistency in the application. I don't doubt that believes in what he's he's doing. But the problem is there isn't that consistent position approach from one nation. Okay. And so from from our point. View. That's all I'm trying to do is to continually say government should be not being too fearing in in markets in the mine, and we need to make sure that taxpayer getting good value for money. A at all this takes place when we've seen a lot of Pauling evidence in in this country, Australia, certainly the United States and even Britain a majority of millennials people born between ninety two and late nineties. They're embracing socialism. The cover of this week's economist the rise of the millennial socialist, David how do you and of course, LDP when I've been to the events of a lot of young people, but had you appealing to millennials when some of them blamed capitalism for things like housing prices education costs and and what some site climate catastrophe. Well, I noticed that the serve I didn't include Venezuelan millennials. I think it's rather rather blessed? But look if you take housing prices, for example in and I think that the characterize Asian that Lisi's the fault of capitalism. He's he's totally wrong. If you look at housing, for example, we when you buy a house you've got stamped Judy that inhibits people moving to more appropriate accommodation. It makes it more difficult for young people to to buy a house. We've got massive planning controls. We've got land released all of these government interference that it's making housing more expensive. And I think young people millennials in particular, very, you know, they can be very rational and open today's ID's when they say, well, he's government might be the problem. He and with finding a lot of young people are attracted to libertarian IT's. They they wanna be able to think for themselves. And I think it's just more matter of getting the message out there. My guest amok life them one nation. Corey benatti. Australian conservatives and David Limerick L D pay which walking the splintering of the ROY. Let's move to identity politics, Mark life. And because you mentioned it earlier why is it fracturing the liberal conservative movement? And what do you think at sinus? Well, I think the fracturing is fascinating in itself that there is something of a cross in traditional conservatism. The left of put not only authentic politics, but post modernism, and the culture was on the agenda the reserve ice explicit of audiology and approach on the question of nationalism, the astride Ida bite the role of gender quiet as climate change energy policy, sign sex marriage refugees, police guys on and on. And I think the point for conservative voters want people to fight against the leftist taika ever of institutions in these areas of the culture was and when I can't find a politician conservative who's willing to fight will I turn to outside as Donald Trump is they have in the office, the whole Trump phenomena was a product finding someone who would fought tooth. The Nile to drive the leftist hike, Ivor institutions ally. And I think that's why you've got this fundamental split down the middle of old conservative parties as they going through. A new audio logical realignment inevitably on these questions of social fairness, and the divisiveness of identity politics, the file your of energy policy. We've seen it in in in in recent times the fire of bold A-List world. Well this change. I voted for the old release things file in practice. Now, David you I think you'll might address in parliament you limit the rise recently of authoritarian, and you say on both the lift and the rot attempting to declare sections of society as good or bad is the identity politics that Maga just been talking about who on the raw. Do you have in mind? Okay. So if you look at what's happened, we've left Tennessee politics. It's had the natural consequence and predictable. I think that there's a reaction to and if you look in the in the US, you know, the rise of the ultra movement, they really just a mirror image of what you see on the authoritarian left with their identity politics, and you know, it's it's sort of a predictable outcome because you think well these people who are being accused of being bad because they belong to a certain group. You know, they might be Maine or whatever then they react to it. And so I said in my inaugural speech that you know, I reject identity politics outright. Because I think that it's a natural consequence that it causes these fragmentation of society and leads to social chaos in the end, we're ending up with you know, groups being segregated from each other. And I just don't think it's a healthy thing. I think we need to focus much more on the individual. And you talk a lot about social policy differentiation is certainly evident when. It comes to say cannabis legalisation just described the pay position. Yeah. So since pods founding in two thousand and one policy on cannabis has been to legalize that with few restrictions except full restrictions on the size, two children shouldn't be sold to children. But you know, it used to be considered fairly radical suppose. But now, it's not so much. We're already saying these being legalized in many states in the US and in Canada. And you know, if you look at it in in the two thousand sixteen seventeen financial year in Victoria, alone that was ten thousand arrests ju just to cannabis, and so that's ten thousand police officers time ten thousand cold cases, and ten thousand young people's laws potentially ruined with a criminal conviction. I just don't think that this is a good use of taxpayer racehorses. And and I don't want these young people getting criminal conviction smoking joint or something like that and ending up on welfare and not being able to get a job and what about pill testing because you've joined some other monasteries on the lift on this issue. Act. Let's correct and look with pill testing, again, it's it's it's a matter of I think the name probably beat unfortunate. Really? I'd rather call it peel consultation or something like that. Because really the value we've pill testing as that young people. They take these drugs, right? They they take them. And it doesn't matter you can't arrest your way out of stopping children taking these drugs. So testing is a way for young people before they take these drugs to sit down with a health expert and talk about it in in serious in series, and honest way, and for many people this is the first time that ever spoken to anyone about the drug taking behavior. And what happens is that? They get told that, you know, here's what we've discovered in your pills. And sometimes it's bad things in the pills that they went wasn't what they expecting. And they throw it in the being sometimes just talking to a medical professional about the risks from taking these pills is enough to put the wind up these people and and putting it into being as well. And even if they do go. Ahead, and and take the pills. Well, at least they've gotten some information about the possible risks some possible strategies for dealing with those risks, and they'll be much less home, and when we wave sane. They seem traduced of essays we much lower levels of of and look a lot of people as well saying, oh, we'll wash taxpayers paying for these. The no one's really asking taxpayers to pay for it really just asking for the government to get out of the way and let voluntary organisations run a trial. So that they can see how it works out, actually. Or you just heard the L D pay position on drugs. What's the conservative response? We'll I don't support pill tasting and the reason I regard myself as conservatives because I want the maximum amount of freedom for people to do things to enjoy themselves into participate in civil society. But also Keatley aware that you know, the live team in existence is demonstrated people are trying to excess and there are areas where they need to be limits placed upon things now if if. Pills are illegal. It is absolutely wrong for us to be testing drugs. And then giving them back to someone to make a decision about what they should be doing with involuntary capacity and David makes good point. This may be the first time someone's spoken to them about drugs. Well, rather than talking to them in schools about gender transitioning and deciding whether you're a boy or a girl guide floral full years of age, why not sit them down and have a serious conversation about the diners that drugs course, people people die from that get mental illness and the the costs of drug addiction drug treatment in this country is Esther nominal and just because you can't beat it. Or you don't think you can beat it doesn't mean you should give up and say, well, this is tested and let you take your chances knock life them. Well, the problem is that for the Liberal Democrats. It's actually expansion of the role of government which is country to what they spice the Stanford because onto the current system and individual tax of these pills synthetic drugs. Factored in someone's backyard garage like type the individual risk about the contents of the pill, and they have to leave with the individual consequences of what they're doing. But if you've got government authorized pill testing, you'll transferring the risk onto the tax payer because the first time one of the pills is faulty and the analysis of it is wrong, and the young person has detrimental impacts government, and the text file rep for normal amounts of money in compensation. Find. Well, you assign government would give permission for voluntary organisations government-sanctioned pill testing and other people say they would be government medical offices testing these pills within ten minutes of a person entering what I'm using slash drug festival. So David Limburg is pill testing a burden on taxpayers. No. In fact, I think it removes there's already abode on tax payers people taking these pills. The the the ICU bids cost money. The the the car the car in his reports costs money all these things already costs money. So this the organizations that want to do these trials they government run. They not government funded. They they've private organizations that wanna wanna do these overseas. When you see these organizations actually painful by the festivals themselves in at Lowe's their insurance premiums. So this is not this is not like a government service. Theses people trying to reduce the ham from drugs that people are going to take. Anyway, if we can if we can reduce the Hambo giving people access to. Medical consultations and more information about the substances taking we'll save lots and it will reduce the number of people that take strikes if we say, I've essays when the when the people have had these consultations appeal tasting a lot of times already said, I throw them in the being so I think this is a very effective way of reducing drug using drug consumption too shy. They're awesome divisions. Roll dive Olympic from the Liberal Democrats. He's in Milton Mike life in the one nation candidate for the New South Wales election in March. He's in Sydney with me in Corey Benatti. He's the leader of the Australian conservatives he's in paliament house studio in camera, and we're discussing this splintering of the raw and the third party alternatives to coalition parties mock you, and I lost few years have been talking a lot about Donald Trump, and it has to be knowledge that various stages throughout twenty sixteen year, one of the few people in this country thought that Trump could win but hasn't he just represented the sort of insurgency forces? That dismantling established parties in Europe that it's a populous backlash against economic low blase, Shen porous borders and identity politics. If that's true is Trump a role model for one nation. Well in large part. Yes. A popular backlash against Dimity. Politics, and porous borders is very much justified. We had porous borders in astrology are under the rod and Gila governments and twelve hundred asylum-seekers drowning cluding young children go on. So how anyone could resurrect that type of approach under the banner of social Justice, just defies any form of logic. People like Whitman would have said to me in the Nadi nineties dyke any notice of a person's skin color, or they gender or the sexually these things are superfluous to the true character of the individual. So why now Saimaa focus on skin kala, gender and sexuality in the form of identity politics. And you know, I reject the notion that populism somehow as duty would if you'll engaging the public. And harnessing popular views against bad policy. That's a very good thing for democracy. Yeah. Corey benatti. You're you're like me you're fan of Ronald Reagan, many American conservatives such as the distinguished columnist. George will nisi that Trump is repudiation of reigons coal governing philosophy small government free. Trade immigration is Trump an ally or a false prophet Corbin. Hoti Trump is an ally in short, and if you get past the the personality of Donald Trump, and you know, the mocking that is made of him in the media, and you look at his agenda. It's very mainstream. What country doesn't want to secure the voters? The left us Europeans. And even I regret at at Eliza. So that's what he wants to renegotiating trade deals is I think, absolutely wise. I mean these deals entered into decades ago and had, you know, whether the still working to your advantage or not should they set and forget, no one in the commercial world does that and we have been damaged by some of the deals that would Donna treaty cypher example on on refugees back in the fifties was still bound by we should be revisiting all of these things. He wants to deregulate the economy cop, Texas, that's very mainstream agenda for a conservative any wants to read the country. Dame aggression because I mean Reagan was a big immigration guy. Trump wants to slash immigration. Well, he wants to make immigration work in the national interest for America, and quite frankly immigration in this country, for example, and in America is not working to the betterment full ordinary people governments love big immigration policies because it props up the GDP, and it makes the economy to grow. But it takes a negative stiff for many people that are already struggling community limits libertarians in the United States divided generally speaking are inclined towards free immigrations. Do you will support open borders? No, we don't support I've been bought it. So we knowledge the benefits that come from immigration. So the prosperity that can cause, but we also acknowledged that immigration needs to be controlled. So we don't support I've been I formerly pull Kelly from the Australian he's been on between the lawns. Every so often he often talks about the revolts of the liberal better off progressive middle-class on moral grounds, especially climate change and Kili sees as a liberal wake nece that is the failure to fought the left on moral issues with moral language, and he says that every progressive campaign is based on morality, no matter. How immoral it might be Mike life, and I you how do you fought your real logical opponents on the lift on moral grounds? Well, defied hot against the takeover of institutions with sitting in one here at the Ivy. See then for Utah. You know, you need to be realistic about that. But also to highlight the shallowness of virtue signal if a woman as wealthy as Karen fill. So Lisa Wilkinson or pay to fit. Saw you live in a big house with security unitedly within Cooley of refugee taught communities out in the western suburbs of Sydney, how do you prove your moral virtue to others virtue signal about climate change about refugee policy, and why doing it because you know, to be filthy rich, of course, in the all dies. I'd be described as greedy capitalist pigs. Well, let them want that said about them at swank, INA potties side, they have to have this moral dimension, which is tightly shall I? That don't have windmills and big solid farms in the eastern suburbs will allow a north shore of Sydney that live within Kuei where the refugees leave. I'll take a handful of these by people, you know, every now and then if I ran into one in the mine Streep Dabo by that'd be in a state of shock that have a heart attack side virtue signal and gets them off the hook dive Olympic from our point of view. It's it's. More along the lines of well, libertarian libertarianism is fundamentally immoral position. So we feel comfortable looking at out philosophy and how we can argue these points on a moral grant. And I think if if you look at a lot of these left positions, they they're really about some elite group making a plan for the average person. So they trying to plan people's lives rather than let them planet full themselves, and you know, fundamentally that that's that's not a moral position. That should be supported him. We need to point that out to people. And I think that we have the the philosophical foundation that we can do that. And Corey outy, how do you fought your real ideological opponents on moral grounds? Let's not do the lily morality has historically come from religious observance, and you know, in a strike Judeo Christian values, and if the lift of systematically dismantle let to demonize and and undermined anybody. One of hold that in the public sphere. Whilst appropriating the language and present themselves as this this new religion. And when people like me and MAC and David pushback against the Inara unwise, of course, with the marginalized ones because the institutions are now fully captured by this lift assault cost. And I think we've just got to keep pushing back, and ultimately, I think the younger people of strata will recognize the counterculture movement is with supporting because the prevailing culture is doing them disservice their job their outcomes, they're out McFaul the country, whether they in in educational standards or opportunities ease Folles than it was a decade of. So again, that's because of government and lift is thinking, very interesting discussion, Corey Mark, David. Thanks much between the lines. Thanks very much, Tom. Thanks. That was Corey Benatti from the Australian conservatives Mark life them from one nation and David. Limerick from the Liberal Democrats. Well, that's it for this week show. Remember if you'd like to hear the episode again or download segments since twenty fourteen just go to ABC dot net dot I used slash Aren and follow the prompts to between the lines or you can listen via the ABC listen app, or wherever you get your podcast, you can even subscribe. So you never miss an episode on Tom Switzer high containing next week. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

Corey Benatti David Liberal Democrats Donald Trump Tom Corey Benatti United States Corey Mark liberal party ABC South Wales Tom Switzer Ronald Reagan Malcolm Roberts Victorian legislative council Texas Tom Mark life
National Affairs Panel: Provincial premiers make their demands

The Current

21:33 min | 11 months ago

National Affairs Panel: Provincial premiers make their demands

"How do you take down criminal network hidden in the shadows? I tell him that. I know that they're the ones who are running the largest child abuse website on the dark net the journalists working to expose the darkest corners of the Internet. That's your playroom for that's your baby's clothes. That's my house. The police ace who hunt down online predators. The environment. They're using no we didn't we didn't make it. They made it hunting. MOORHEAD subscribe wherever you get at your podcasts. This is a CBC DC podcast. Hi I'm Laura Lynch this podcast from the December third edition of the current can't if you can't sustain healthcare and all the multitude of services don't start with another program get that right start by getting that right because there are too many people across this country waiting far too long to get care and we as premiers have to address that issue head on But without a relationship with Ottawa is some sustenance. We're not going to achieve the goals. The Canadians deserve us to achieve. So that's my point Manitoba Premier. Brian Pallister speaking yesterday about the liberal. Government's Pharma Care Proposal. Canada's provincial. Premiers might have different opinions about that plan but yesterday they agreed auto wash should increase healthcare transfers. They shoot several other demands for Justin Trudeau to when they met in Toronto and with the Prime Minister. Handicapped by a minority government and concerns earns about politically fractured country. They're banking on getting a captive audience. In fact the premier's many of them conservative are sounding a lot like the opposition these days while Andrew Scheer Shear leader of the official opposition faces on going questions about his future our national affairs panel is here to discuss all of this. JP tasker is reporter in the CBS's parliamentary bureau. We've reached him in Toronto. Susan delicate is a national columnist and Ottawa. Bureau chief for the Toronto Star. She is in our Ottawa. Studio and and Checchi Curl is executive director of the Angus Reid Institute and she is in our London England studio today. Hello to all of you good. Jp Let's start with you the premier's here's had a laundry list of demands to what stood out for you as the most important. Yeah I mean it's hard not to see this year's meeting as anything but a victory no AETNA victory for from Berta Premium Jason Kenney You know I'm calling it the candy coup because he came up with a plan a plan for fairness for over to any gun all thirteen eighteen provincial territorial leaders to sign on and it really isn't small potatoes stop they've agreed to some big changes to the fiscal stabilization program which it sounds rather dull but it really could be something to help deal with these national unique questions. We've been facing over the last number of months and really what they've all agreed to do. Is pressure off watching boost the payments they give provinces that are going through tough times promises like Albertus Newfoundland Labrador which has seen their budgets have been holed blowing allowing them because of the oil. Price Crater I mean he thinks they've agreed to the premiums also agreed to pressure off a chain bill c sixty nine which hearing a lot about lately to the environmental neck. Liberal government introduced in the last parliament. They all said that there needs to be some change legislation to make them more palatable than the natural resources sector actor that he can get. Projects Built Kenny had both of those at the top of this list and the others went along. Even someone like the John Organ is obviously been against pipeline pointed development. He's agreed to sign on the dotted line with this one after the government to kind weaken or water down its environmental assessment bill. So that's that it's not insignificant and I think the Liberal government has got his marching orders from the dreamers And it's something it carries more weight. I think when they've all agreed to the same principle. Susan Delacour stood out to you. I think yes the call for unity and it should be said that Premieres are never so united as when they're asking auto offer for thing You and I have been covering this longtime Laura and we know that when it comes down to Asking them in to agree with what they should give to the federation rather than get from the federation it becomes a more Conflicted discussion but I to to like J. P. was struck by the tone The idea that they were all going to hang together I it's not insignificant significant to note though to that Christa Freeland the new deputy prime minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs was sounding pretty positive after she's been having thing some rather upbeat meetings with some of the premier's and She was trying to keep that tone up when she responded yesterday to or or her spokespeople responded to the premier saying Ottawa listening Ottawa's open. And we'll see that being said I. I did ask the Prime Minister's Office yesterday whether anything happening at the premier's conference yesterday we would see in the throne speech later this week and I said At these they said probably not. Okay Suchy Crow. What do you make of the way? The premiums tried to present a united front. You Know I. It's like this to shut cheese on this. So the less cynical shut she would say that yes. These are areas where the premier can move the ball because they know that they are priorities for government because government knows that these are priorities for Canadian. So what we're consistently the top issues in the federal election campaign health spending in a one in five Canadian. ADA has trouble accessing primary healthcare whether that's finding a doctor or finding themselves on waiting lists for surgery or for other procedures Pharma Care Plan. Dan Huge win in terms of buyin across the political spectrum conservatives many conservatives like it just as much as those on the left of center and you you know despite JP talks about the coup for Kenny the idea that L. Berta particularly and the western provinces albertans sketch catch. One have been in need of relief in need of recalibration on the equalization front on the economic front is not a new message. So I'm not tremendously surprised to see movement on that now cynical Shijie says that. It's really easy for premieres to come together and present a so called United Front Front and put the onus on Ottawa and really put the ball back in their court. When you're dealing with low hanging fruit you know? The the premiums did not come together to talk about interprovincial provincial trade barriers or labor mobility or sharing delivery of health and education or indeed the carbon tax because those would have been much more fractious conversations right so they knew how to present the United Front. JP just wonder It was called this meeting And he also chaired the meeting and tried to look like Captain Canada. I'm wondering how much you noticed. Sort of a transformation of his Or attempt to transforming his role on the national stage since the election. Yeah Yeah I mean it's been a rocky eighteen months. Since he was first elected is numbers of tanks in the polls here provincially so I think he is trying to present himself as Captain Canada. He you know. Prime Minister and Liberal Party slagged them for the better part of three months basically trying to pin the reelection hopes on him You know making him the foil if you will to their plan and you know he has been fairly gracious. I think he's tried to avoid going after the prime minister going after Liberal Party in those times. But let's not a have any doubts here. He's still very much opposed to the liberal plan. And you know he was the CO hosts at that meeting yesterday and none of the liberal government's priorities were reflected in communicated they produce at the end of that meeting You know he has definitely been a thorn in their side on things like infrastructure and other of dinosaur in the side on things like handguns handguns and all the liberal agenda needs to be they need to work with the provinces and territories to get some of their big election promises. And it's looking like they just don't have a willing group right yeah. There's no way they can get farmer care across the line if they have people like Brian Pallister yesterday pouring cold water on it thing. Forget about a new social program. Let's work with what we got so Doug Doug Ford is definitely still very much part of the resistance if you will. If you'll remember that team this magazine cover on the claims when they had all the conservative minded premiums front and center with that resistance assistance. Banner along the bottom. He's still ringleader in that leading the charge against the Liberals Agenda but he is taking a more conciliatory tone is definitely more cordial cordial than he has been in the past all right Susan given all of all of that and and what you've told us about the PMO's replied the premier's demands. How hard do you think it's going to beef? Prime Minister to smooth over regional divides during the second term in office. Well I think just as there's a Ford two point zero A brand new. Doug Ford there is also brand new. Justin Trudeau You know I I too have a cynical susana an optimistic but let's stay dealing with a bunch of Split personalities here history Algeria and and speaking speaking of Split Personalities It will be interesting to see whether Justin Trudeau two point zero. The post-election humble more more low profile Justin Trudeau That idea sort of infuses the next few months. It's it in two thousand fifteen when Justin true there are many differences between Justin Trudeau. Twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen But the that Justin Trudeau held a first ministers meeting before for he did a throne speech two weeks before This Justin Trudeau was waiting almost two months afterward and he has been meeting with them and talking with them them one on one. But I think you're seeing a slower more deliberative Federal Government a little more more cautious I think what you're going to see from them to is Less identity stuff Less talking about who they dr rather than what they're going to do If you like More verbs fewer nouns in the In the speech from the throne I I I get the sense. That and they've been telegraphing this that the election for everybody was a humbling. Experience and Dat Demeanor is going to be taken to discussions. We'll see how long it lasts. Politics is not for the humble as we know no but But but that is the approach right now look. The word of the last month of this year is going to be collaboration shouting. What do you think Canadians want to see from this new parliament? Well I think they do want to see something of that collaboration if you live anywhere outside of Ontario in this country you're you're quite of the view auto is not listening to your needs your priorities or reflecting. What's important to you? So you know. Susan talks about the reset or or or the new Trudeau in the new Ford. Look these things have to go beyond tone. Certainly it helps to walk back the rhetoric it helps to walk back some of the virtue signaling but ultimately this is a a government that is going to have to walk. It's talk and so that does mean squaring the circle on things such as Bill C sixty nine and that's going to get very thorny because they also so have a pretty motivated committed pro climate change base that Burnham and elected them and we'll maybe not take kindly to seeing that watered watered down at the end of the day. Canadians usually have a pretty positive view or pretty optimistic view of minority parliaments. Insofar so far is they look at it as an opportunity for their own needs and priorities to be met. And you see this with the outcome of this last election. two-thirds thirds say that they're either pleased or neutral about the election outcome. No one's really in a mood to see another election anytime soon so this can be a time. We're both the premiers and the parties and parliament can actually demonstrate that the political class isn't tuned out isn't focused on their their own gamesmanship gamesmanship in does have an opportunity And a motivation to actually work on behalf of Canadians. Let's see again. Whether any of that comes to fruition I think a lot of that has to do with how skillfully Trudeau and his government can manage a minority parliament. We saw in the first term that they didn't necessarily early skillfully handle a majority. Parliament will see. Jp What are you expecting from the throne speech. I think it's the forty third. Parliament will look a lot different than the forty thirty second parliament that we just finished. And I think there's a two pronged approach for the liberal government essay head into this minority governments. There could be an election within eighteen months two years. Who knows but but they have to be thinking they have to be election ready as it is now and I think they're going to be really going after Quebec we saw and how they might make mention of the throne speech? We saw how justin intruder structure to cabinet that time. Many more people from Quebec in prominent positions in an effort to win back those seats that went blocked the last time. If they want to get that majority government back they have to pick up the seats. That went to the book. Like why there's thirty two was during across some cheering Grassi. Off and then each and every day so they put Pablo Rodriguez House leader. He was the heritage minister. I should say now. He's going to be the host leader. He's going to have to deal with the You know a group of contingent. That is very much more Quebec centric. They didn't have that that problem time. They might have to throw a bone here and there to keep them on side. And they do have to smooth over this western illumination thing. That prime minister doesn't WanNA head into another election Russian Dealing with a flare up of something like exit in Alberta Saskatchewan now. I don't think he's been a remarkably improved his standing among western Canadians and win a bunch of feedback but even just to do something throw them a bone. Maybe Change Bill Sixty nine maybe look at alternatives to the oil tanker Bangle. They put in when British Columbia in the last time just to show the rest of Canada that they're sensitive to western Kenyan alien nation that they're on it that they're doing something I think setting Christie it really really up you know. Trudeau's top tenant as deputy prime minister and the lead on. This file does send a message that this will be the focus so they deal with those two issues. I think their mind. They believe that they can drag small right back into majority government of course easier said than done I host of ideas join me on a deep dive into contemporary thought and intellectual history at ideas we explore everything from the roots of totalitarianism to the evolution of Denim. No topic is off limits. Each episode cracks open a concept to see how it's played out over place and time and shows why it still matters today. Subscribe to ideas on the listen APP. Or wherever you catch podcasts now Susan a ah one of the first orders of business in parliament resumes as electing a new speaker and W- that's an important role in a minority government right. Yes it is The the the last speaker. Jeff Regan is running again as is a former liberal caucus chair Anthony Roda And there a AH a number of other Carol Hughes from the The the strange thing is we. We don't know who exactly is renting until tomorrow night at six PM because it's like like negative option billing you are considered a candidate until you pull your name off and some of these new rookies Ninety eight of them may not know that they have to do that. So if if you are the they're listening. MP's were still on the list. Knock your name off. But we're expecting about half a dozen people to run and I'm going to be watching the just the visuals of this. They're going to be interesting. I think people have forgotten that the the first of the last Trudeau government woman true to one point zero. Unusually only had one throne speech. Usually governments have them every couple of years and the last government Their explanation clinician was. Well we had so much in the platform and the first throne speech. We didn't need to do another one But a lot has changed since two thousand fifteen put it mildly And one of them is that center block has been shut down now for a year. So this is GonNa be the first time we see the the speech from the throne being read by Julie Piat who is not Governor General in two thousand fifteen and in the new Senate building which is the old government conference centre which means that. MP's actually have to walk outdoors hours and down the street here in Ottawa. To go and see the throne speech so it's going to be different in in just the visual look of it and it is going to be different. I think very very different from twenty fifteen as I was saying I think in tone I was struck the liberal platform about. How many their promises hinged on help with others including premieres and? I think you're going to hear that will will be a a a strong theme is We'd like to get these things done but we need help from others to do it including the opposition parties. Well let's see I don't want to do at the time. Remaining is just go round the table but about the different leaders. Jp Let's start with you. Andrew shared facing calls from some conservatives to step down. What will he do once? The House is back in session into put those questions to rest. Yeah the stakes are so high for Andrea Sherr over the next five or so months before that leadership review able April. He has to really shore up support and I think he has has to prove he's a formidable opposition leader. Someone who can take on Trudeau head-on If only to make it clear to the party membership that someone someone who can do it next time the next election. He's capable of toppling prime minister I think he was not a terrible opposition leader. I think he really was quite effective on things like essences since the level and he's bloodied them up a bit on that day in and day out of the House of Commons. If we can have a repeat performance he might be able to salvage his reputation among the party base. which you know from everyone? I've been speaking to seeming to turn off in a bit They they've kind of gone off. After the October twenty first election so he has to come out in a very leisurely way and he has to be squarely focused on taking on the prime minister. Not Easy and he's going to be pulled away from the house quite often over the next few months because he's on on these listening tours going out to meet with party members across the country to try and convince them to back him in the leadership review. We're GONNA have in April in Toronto. So it's it'd be a very difficult task for him and if that's if he can hang on. I mean the pressure might build to such a point that untenable for md even stay on as leader but third forty. We've seen more and more voice them for like we have in the last two weeks to call that all right. I do not envy Andrea Sherr jumping in on you. Because we've only got about a minute and a half left and we have two more leaders to go through shots she curl. What will end EP leader Doug? Mitzi need to do to advance. His party's agenda Parliament. He has to look like he is effective in parliament and he has to hope that the troubles of Andrew Scheer can continue although I would say that they're not really just about Andrew sheer the manner. The leader it is more of an existential angst that conservatives take going forward are facing do they want to be the social conservative protests party of Alberta Saskatchewan. Do they want to be more centrist party. Seeing did not end ended up performing as well as he did in two thousand fifteen yet. He has enough personal credibility to probably ride him through if he can look like. He's making making a difference and then for Trudeau and for the liberals there's two things they need to count on the fact that the opposition parties will be preoccupied with their own issues and more than just tone and showing humility. They actually need to show sincerity. Western candidate needs more than just a bone thrown into it. It actually needs to see that it's feeling respect pacers and you only have about thirty seconds left. I'm not going to Elizabeth May. Because she's announced her resignation. But what about capable leader. Ethan's Blanchet clearly clearly the most intriguing and fascinating leader during the election campaign interested. See if that carries on and also interested to see if they're going to be like the Bloc Quebecois allow position was in nineteen ninety-three or so Very civil very effective but the difference between a national separatist party and a separatist separatist separatist party. I'm going to be watching. How do you represent Quebec that way all right? Thank you very much to all three of you looking forward to the resumption of parliament. Thank you you AH JP tasker as a reporter in the parliamentary bureau. He was in Toronto. Susan Delicate is a national columnist bureau chief for the Toronto Star. She was in our Ottawa. Studio and Xiaojie Curl is executive director of the Angus Reid Institute today. She was in our London. England studio for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Justin Trudeau Prime Minister Ottawa JP tasker Toronto Liberal government Parliament Doug Doug Ford Susan Brian Pallister Laura Lynch prime minister Canada Susan delicate Captain Canada Liberal Party Liberal Party Quebec Federal Government
Election 2019: even some conservatives think we need a Labor government

Between The Lines

29:07 min | 1 year ago

Election 2019: even some conservatives think we need a Labor government

"This is an ABC podcast. Tom Switzer here, and welcome to between the lines. And now federal election week now tonight on the show. We'll be looking at another election in South Africa, twenty five years after the end of a pod has the hard work of Nelson Mandela to win the all rice fout has that been forgotten, but first, a leading political columnist, she joins us to share her opinions on how things might land in Australia on my team. Stay with us. Well, ever since Malcolm Turnbull nearly lost the twenty sixteen election, the polls, the pundits and the bidding markets that consistently put lie in a winning position pointing to a landslide this weekend. But such is the magic politics that the federal election could be a lot closer than anyone had the raw to expect a week or whatnot agai, remember during the past half-century close vigil elections favor, the incumbent, you think of Gordon's narrow victory over whitland in sixty nine the so-called don's party or Gillard up against Abbott losing her majority in twenty ten but when oppositions wind power from the government, the victories are usually in fatty, you think of phrases massive landslide against whitland, seventy five or how smashing catering in ninety six but in politics, there are no guarantees, and the smart money is still on a lie. Victory. And according to my guest, that may be a good thing for conservatism and the nation. Australia, where told needs a shortened government to help us break out of Al complacency genital Ricksen is a columnist with the Australian. She's a board member on the institute of public affairs, and a former board member here at the get I Janet, welcome to our Tom, now you're leading conservative commentator. So naturally, many of our listeners here on between the lines. We'll be shocked to hear you say that a and prime ministership could be a good thing house on Tom. I think some of my raiders were shelter and I made that argument few weeks ago, but I think it's we've now come to the position where we need the lived experience of a shorten government to return, the labor party to the wisdom of the hawk aiding agenda. We need a short and government to force a liberal party to get through what I think, is an existential crisis identity crisis to rediscover its roots to rebuild a very confused. Brand. And we, we the voters, we need lived experience of short and government to, to deliver, what I call buyer's remorse to realize that whitland, esque mix of big promises without policies that grow the economy is not just nicotinic disaster. But a social disaster, and I really think you have to go back to the days of the Whitlam era, to, to find the level of complacency that we see today, and my colleague at the astray Lian PO Kelly code. It know that nineteen sixties grand delusion, that continued prosperity was a strategy is destiny. And it's true, we've had almost thirty years of, of economic growth, but that is not a given. So you sign in the shorten economic agenda increases the prospects of a recession, and Farley will be mudbound, reality. I think that's absolutely right. Because Bill Schoten is very honest that he's politics, the politics of redistribution not growing economic pie, and it's it's much easier by the white to redistribute rather grow the economic pie. If you think of the big reform. The hard reforms in a strategy during the eighties nineties, and the early two thousands. They were hard reforms, but they were important reforms. It liberalized the economy. We're not seeing those same kind of policies with the short and government. He's Fago economics is a slogan. It's premised on complacency is premise on emotion. Just listen is shooting in some of the might say that, you know, we're, we're experiencing an ideological seachange in the electric, the oldest twenty percent of the electorate si- fifteen years ago in two thousand and four. When you wrote that conservatism was cool on the John Howard, the oldest twenty percent back. Then they largely voted for the coalition. They've been replaced by the youngest twenty percent of voters who lift, you got social media Twitter trolls, all the ride a poll show that socialism has risen in stature, especially among these millennials. And of course you got tried unions. They luckily to be reim- powered. So have haven't times changed time certainly have changed in the environment's changed. But what? What you're saying is very much. You know, not just the liberal party and existential crisis, but the left side of politics is strong because it's buttressed by so many elements in civil society that you do not see, on the centre-right of politics strata. It's almost as if liberalism depends on the liberal party in a stray area. And if you have a liberal party that stepped away from those basic, liberal values, what's left, so it really is up to other organizations, I think, to build the foundations of liberalism in ustralia to make deeper than the liberal party cannot rest on a conviction later such as John Howard. We haven't had one since two thousand and seven and look, what's happened to liberal values in that time you've had get up. You have the unions, you have the light party and other organizations. It's up to the center right of a Strayer to rebuild to make the case for liberal values. And that's what hasn't happened. You've written the Rausing damp of the wits in the liberal party has lift the joint with dodgy foundations. And just might clear, the conservatives now would rather walk away than stand up and fought. And he also criticized the so-called modern liberals. But at these decisions by the senior liberals to shift towards the so called center at they attempts to adjust to what many political analysts, I is an increasingly more progressive political and cultural landscape. I certainly think that way in politicians nervous about, you know, their prospects that they start to put on new labels. And we're saying range of liberals call themselves modern liberals. Now, I've pressed a few of them as to what the what that means, and it really doesn't mean anything, it's just a bit of branding. I call it branding bunkum. What is the most important to be successful in politics, merger of conviction with good retail political skills? We've seen that before the last ten years, though, we've seen we've seen the party and politicians on the center, right suffer a deficit of both conviction, and, and really good retail politics now recently under Scott Morrison, I think the party has started to reimburse, for example, explain the social good of a strong economy, the virtues of lower taxes, allowing people to have more of their own money to make decisions how they spend their money. But imagine if the liberal party had more core values at the center of it story for the past ten years, it would be in a much stronger position. It's not about rebranding as modern liberal. I mean this, this guy's back today, but Cameron calling himself, a compassionate conservative, or which had Nixon, quote himself, a conservative with a heart. What does it mean if liberal parties, make the moral case for classical liberalism, you want convince voters about the purpose of a liberal governor Cosa, just to clarify, you think it's premature to read the last rods two Austrailia conservatism. Your argument, is that conservatives a losing tonight because they not farting. But Janet, we had on this program last week Tim sue pomace on the former rice discrimination Commissioner, and he I use that a short vitual Mark the end of what's derided as neoliberalism hasn't market capitalism, filed given the widespread economic inequality, wick told by because I think the evidence is just not there for, for widespread economic inequality. It's become a slogan. If you look at their three surveys from the can. Census. And I think there was another one by Hilda. They all showed that inequality has pretty much not changed over three decades of productivity commission. More recently is found that claims to growing income inequality. Not true. The economic growth has lifted standards across all income groups. I mean these are the facts, but the slogan of income inequality is being used to justify dismantling capitalism, in the name of some sort of utopian social democratic project, we've been here before now at this stage Paul's point to alive victory. But Malcolm Turnbull mind tines he would won the election, if it weren't for his wing enemies in the media, and the potty room. Let's hear for major Neal's interview with tumble on the BBC two months ago at the time of the coup in August. We were level pegging on the public Paul's or the opposition and we were four points ahead on the polling in the marginal seats. But basically, you could argue that the concern was not that I would lose the election, but rather that I would win it. You telling me your own party didn't want you to win the next. I'm just saying if you analyze credit. Well, Andrew, you've only got to look at the facts because Malcolm Turnbull on the base on why he would have won the election Janet Albertson. Well, I see we've moved into the comedy section of this. There is not some I'm sure in, in Malcolm's man, there is. But there is actually not any Shakespearean tragedy afoot here. The facts is simply that Malcolm Turnbull cold for the leadership spill that he is. No longer later because he filed to harness support from his parliamentary colleagues, and I replaced him because they wanted to lose what lose their careers, their livelihoods that some level of self delusion, I think, and it's sort of political hurry, carry that I haven't seen hang on many people, including my colleagues L complying that Malcolm timbale was brutally buys on colleagues. And that sit in plice this that seems today stabilize the coalition. There is no argument that the liberal party has been consumed, but it goes back with personality conflicts with arguments over ideas. But that goes back longer than Malcolm Turnbull that was happening. When tiny abbot was prime minister, what's happening is that the liberal party is trying to. To settle on, on what, what, what is purposes. And after John, how it's really struggled in that process, Magus Janet Albert's. And she's a columnist at the Australian newspaper in which heading about this weekend's federal election. Now news cope, the company that publishes you'll pipe the ause the ustralian that's been subjected to a lot of criticism for its apparently one saw did unbalanced and unfair coverage his walk'll award winning news journalists tiny Koch in the guardian. No way to I worked for would have put up with the biased anti-labour rubbish, the shamefully the pipe now produce on a daily basis. If it is not anti-labour. It is anti green or quite ridiculously, and he obeys e anything except the story negative to the liberal or national parties gone is the requirement for balance now. That's tiny Koch on News, Corp, boss, agenda, Albertson, given the front page coverage of the oil. Ause and it's news coverage generally doesn't have a point. Well, Tom before I get onto that it might be useful. I think is background for your listeners to know that, yes. Tiny cautious a former news journalist, but he is also right now acting as a immediate visor to alive candidates Danny against pay to dot and in the state of Dixon, really. Alley franz. That's right. And that's his prerogative, of course, but those people who have, you know, many people, including some of the gushed about this terrific pace by tiny cauti-. I think it's important to mention that silent fact it explains what his politics are. And let's not pretend he doesn't come to that pace with his own set of boss. But before you impugn, someone's motives entries arguments, he'll side that the front page of the ause die in is biased in favor of the coalition. Well, I think the strategy has unashamedly bane a center right, paper from the moment, it was established in the sixties. Is it now breaking news at a newspaper? Has a set of values behind it. What the age doesn't have political views at the Sydney Morning. Herald doesn't. I mean, give me a bright, these really his comedy hour. Now tell your critics would say that unlike the ause other tabloids news tabloids, the public broadcaster and the former v x titles. They're paragons of balance and famous. I read the Fairfax publications and I'm not saying great deal of fan as I'm saying newspapers with their own political slant. I think what you have in astrologer is a choice between newspapers that have said, values behind them, and I'll give me a break the paragon of fantasy. Come on. I mean, the public rounded broadcast has it shot that requires it to be impartial. And yet, I've watched recent primetime ABC interviews with the grains later, Richard tally that did not hold him to account on his radical plan to control the output of the media. Now, this is radical stuff that he is proposing the NBC count even manage diversity voices. I look at today here with you about you don't say a lot of. Conservative voices on the, I think that's reflected Tolman comments that were made recently by Jonathan homes in his exposition of the auntie published boy. Yeah. That's right. And I think he's written recently on crock EBay. He said that the output, especially on radio national if I might say, shoot. Welcome paper with political views at a right of center, and it doesn't look what we've got you on the program today. So give us some critic now fondly rice this election is held against the backdrop of cross church. Now the media conventional wisdom and again teams with Amazon reflected this orthodoxy on the program last week that says that our nation's entrenched rice, ZIM fuels is Lamma phobia and other forms of bigotry, and this in turn encourages rot wing extremist violence. How would you respond to that? I think it's, you know, the response is pretty straightforward. Australia has maintained non-discriminatory immigration policy for decades by both sides of politics. It was supported by Philip Roddick as. Immigration minister on the liberal side. And by again, on the liberal side as immigration minister. So where is the proof of entrenched, racism? I think one of the most successful multi last week with signed that three liberal candidates have been disendorsed because of their offensive remarks on social media true, endorsed, Tom as they should be. But the double standards here in focusing on offensive remarks made by liberal parties is pretty stock. And I think rather dishonest I mean on 'em profoundly. Disappointed that grains candidate George Hanna used a rice, est slur against just enter proselytizer candidate in this in a state in northern territory. He quote, her coconut black on the outside, white on the inside an awful, Rice's, slur. That doesn't make it any less racist. Because George Hanna is indigenous. I don't think so. And yet, I'm even more disappointed that the grains later today. Natalia who often talks about hate speech, didn't find that height for Wendy's endorse that candidate. So there's a double standard. He wears a scrutiny. The greens for their righteous remarks on an on an indigenous liberal candidate that you'll point. Absolutely. I could give you many more examples to Tom during this campaign of very, very uncivil behavior on the left against conservative candidates. Thanks much. Bring on the program. Thanks, joe. Albertson is a columnist with the Australian and a former board member of the. Urine are in this. When I ninety ninety four the political world was firmly focused on South Africa, as the later of the ANC, this is the African National Congress heck, and we forget, Nelson Mandela, he cast his vote in the first all rice election. Now, this signal the end of the country's oppressive apartheid regime Mandela went onto win the election becoming president of country, desperate, China. I stand before you feel with dip pike and. On the ordinal how people of this country. You have shown, such calm patient determination to play this. As though. And I can loudly per play from the rooftops. Free at last. Nelson Mandela twenty five years ago, my Noni ninety four. Now fast forward to my eyesight twenty nine teen. That's just last week. The light of South African election and the sixth after the end of a pod. The INC has continuously hill, power, and its leader, Cyril Ramaphosa. He returns as president, he has led the party since the retirement of Jacob Zuma, who led the party under a cloud of corruption finan knees. However, elections in South Africa. Not only about who leads the party. They're also about who actually votes in the election and not have to twenty five years of freedom for all rices to vote question. Here is would Nelson Mandela himself would he base apprised at the sentiments of South Africans who chose not to cast their ballot to be honest? I'm not. That's just because I don't think there is one of the participants go into make any changes. All I went to say an all I want to. Lou is that everyone must stand up and do everything for themselves, not expecting EFF ANC, or whatever to do something for the now, that was from the bay say news. Just one of the thirty three percent of all eligible South Africans who chose not to cast their ballot. So why after talk so much to gain the raw to vote, why people not voting. Now my guest today, professor Francis. Paid his rector and vice chancellor of the university of the Free State in bloom from town in South Africa. He write a recent opinion pace on this attention. And hey, says the problem is not just limited to the disappointed South Africans who have experienced little change since gaining the vote, professor Patterson. Welcome to between the lines. Well, thank you very much indeed. A patient. Well, thank you very much, and told me the election last week. What was the voter turnout lock well, they was, they was more than two million voters to vote or with any people to. But the voter turnout was probably the nervous central since the democracy, non non to four. It's about sixty five point three percent while the voter turnout for the next last week sixty five percent in the United States lucky to get more than fifty percent who else chose not to vote in the elections last week. Well, I think it's probably ninety the younger voters. They was a knowledge of younger voters didn't tend to vote, but there was also a percentage of is it say that was unsure who to vote for, because it wasn't that clear. They were certain expectations that they would have specific political party that I would like to vote for they didn't exceeding that, enough, five years or some. Something that has happened in the parties and say year or get in half. And then they decided, well, I can't they interpretive, and they are not going to go. And so it really young people in that percentage of small voters could might up their mind. And that brings us to this article the erode the good a lot of traffic. What was a mine message of your faces? Well, who's the might mention that I want to cross each effectively was mentioned too young people, man. Because at university, we, we obviously have a lot of young people, and it was important for me to bring the mentioned across that you would not going to be able to change. If you don't participate in the elections is going to change the McClatchy effectiveness of government and Bosch, staying away. You might just indicate one message, but you not gonna say a very good democracy and all that can should function. And that was the basis each to a whole suite of young, potential voters. That is not really impressed. With government. And then they started to stay away, and I want to, to really make up their mind and participating even if down to because that's the only way to make sure that, that the challenges that the half with government can be addressed. And the second one is really just on the lying cycle wanted to my he said, you know, some of young people because I in that of their life where if they don't get what they think they shoot they tend to go to go and do demonstrations from protests and some of those potentates can be can get out of hand and that's the way in which they can force change that becomes can become a practice and I wanted an obscene the challenges that we as university management's across Africa had to deal with dude in the protests of two fifths of movements that happened north couple of years. Obviously a lot of these young paper were born after ninety four but don't they don't they young paper? Still value the efforts of Mandela, and of course stars, offering who the wife full their freedom to have a sign who runs the country. Yeah, I can to do, but there's not only five years after nineteen ninety four the also promises that has been Mike tutti jump people to indicate bitten off. So if it is way Montana kinds through the social Justice and, and the model draws the youngsters of subsequent to that the younger people. They are expecting now the sort of, deliveries they every that the she has promise in haven't seen it, and I think that he's really frustrations that spoiled of inside the younger, younger voters, and that sort of force, not to influence in not about, we're talking about the young people of South Africa. And how they assert their political will, this is all against the backdrop of the recent elections, twenty five years since the end of a pod, and the raw survive protests, why more effective than voting got young voters. They using nonvoting to protest a political. Claw, with I feel they're not being heard tell us about some examples say roads must fall and phase must fall toes about those movements. So what happened that statue of roads, British imperialist? Yes. Yes. Rhonda on the kept on, and they felt that university of town really haven't moved away from the colonial influence, the statue was sort of a proxy or reminder of that. And that is the reason why those was talking more about the phase must walnuts speechless full, the primary focus was the on free, higher education, ROY and tennis before he's much for period, the bus Johnson's at the, the twenty six universities of South Africa has actually reminded government and all the pressure on national testing, and the department of education chiny to say that all all support, it be get five became from the state. Is action to loan? And what has happened is that diversity is to balance the books to increase the fees? It's wants one of those things that government didn't do never own. And that was that was really the driving force of fish much for, but he was other things that came with. That was the issue of, again device violence, which also of course, they would issue of also seeing. So you've outsourcing of non core census, I felt that the outsource companies were exploited and they was also focused on student accommodation and that wasn't enough. Again. They felt that this fight didn't come to the even come to party the way that they should guest today is professor Francis paid us. And he's rector and Voss chancellor of the university of the Free State in South Africa. Now president Zuma, he left a legacy of corruption mistrust, how has president Ramaphosa he's successor? How has restored the Feith of South Africans since Zuma? Well, I think he. In the practice of trying to do that. But what he did was adrift certain components of corruption specific organs such as the trinity provided. It's some of transport national transport entities of Trump's net in others also have changed some of the, the director of the both of these entities in charge. More people with take team people with with understanding people with knowledge onto those boats, and he's dealing with issues like actually culture. And in charge is to say, I want to listen to you and I hear you issues. Screw option in fitness of government to deliver those things going to change. We going to try to grow the economy at sauce. The pike one doings. So I think the sons of that he wants to change the author and to a certain extent that gives us hope are just Maru event. He. He he's lost his party. The party. He leads the I say they lost a lot of this election. I think it's they lowest result since nine ninety four. What changed, I believe it was reflection, because, you know, the they need to be assigned to see that Australia's on the design construction, they think which is not working. So the voters needs to kicking like that. And then she really that, but the vote is also need to, to give Rama pulsa and the site. Well, you've got the jokey in all you have to get your party in order to ensure that what he has planned. Yes. The enabling environment to be able to never so they also need to be that support provided. And I think the vote that she got over fifty percent. It's for me. Quite sweet spot. It doesn't give the on the they are they opinion for. The white, they had ran the con- the country of detainees, but they also giving a sort of same confidence to say, well, they just give you a loss loss chance, we'll give you that opportunity to fix and we believe the right person to fix it will be this, and this brings us back to the, the really the fame of this discussion, which is about the young people of South Africa. They clearly remind the largest population within South Africa, what will happen if I disengage further from establish democracy in South Africa. I think we will win in trouble in a way because they are that they allow components versus other people that need to draw going forward. They all the new society that shape this country. So they fold it would be important to address the issues that the young people are looking for on those are the issues of employment. Those are the issues. We can only those all the issues all the promises that you. Would be night. And I think the she is now aware of that east the constituency that we will have to work hard with going forward over the next five years of domestic Francis. Thank you so much for being on IV say today. Thank you for having me that was professor Francis. Paid us in. He's rector and vice chancellor of the university of the Free State in Bloomfontein, South Africa. And we'll put a link to his opinion piece on our website. Well that's it for this week show. Remember, if you'd like to hear the episode again, just go to ABC dot thought I used slash Aren and follow the prompts to between the lines. You can listen via the ABC listen app, or wherever you get your podcast, you can even subscribe, so you never miss an episode on Tom Switzer high be continuing next week. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great podcasts. Live radio and explosives on the obey say, listen up.

liberal party South Africa Tom Switzer Nelson Mandela Malcolm Turnbull South Africa Australia ABC liberal party president Janet Albertson John Howard president Zuma Albertson professor institute of public affairs chancellor Cyril Ramaphosa
Blair's Labour and Johnson's Brexit

Talking Politics

48:27 min | 8 months ago

Blair's Labour and Johnson's Brexit

"Hello my name's David Runciman and this is talking politics. We're going to get back to talking about British politics today from Blair to Johnson to Brexit. I'm beyond talking. Politics is brought to you in partnership with the London. Review of books and the now has a beautiful new website. Tomorrow mark its fortieth anniversary. Jus- go to alabi DOT CO dot U. K. And you will discover a treasure trove of articles from the last forty years and all the latest writing including Adam shots on the death of Cellini. If you take out a subscription you will get all this and so much more. The print magazine the alabi APP and unlimited access to that archive all for just one pound issue to subscribe visit. Alabi dot me food slashed. Today it is me and Helen. We're in a slightly different location so there might be a bit of background noise. We apologize for that. We've been talking about Europe for a few weeks but British politics has been moving on and we're going to cover a few things starting with the speech that Tony Blair gave last week to celebrate the hundred and twentieth birthday of Labor Party. I believe the birthday is today that they were recording. It was a typical Tony Blair speech and it was really annoying and it was also quite interesting and he said that the Labor Party needs to do three things. If it's going to get back in the game the one goal the coverage was it needs to not go down the cul de sac of identity politics so we are not going to get on the cul de sac. Talking about Tony Blair on identity politics. We're GONNA talk about the other two which didn't get nearly as much coverage. She said the other two things that Labor needs to do Get back into some kind of progressive liberal coalition. The black project has always been to some extent to reunite the Liberal Party and the Labour Party and for our American listeners. We have to be clear here. That liberal doesn't mean US liberal. It means the British Liberal Party by chance. Yesterday I bumped in someone in the street who happened to be listening to our Mike League Naughty episode an American who stopped me and said how can you call him liberal? And he's not for Bernie. I'm I didn't know where to start except to say he's Canadian. Liberal means so many different things in different places the Liberal Progressive Alliance here does not mean Bernie and then the other thing. Blessed Labor needs to do which people in labor and indeed in search democratic parties around the Western World. Been saying for about twenty years is workout opposable account of the future which takes account of the fact that the nature of labor is changing. We are entering the age digital automation and Labor. Needs a story about the future of work and that means a new story about the economy. A news story about the nature of government. All of these things have to be completely reconfigured and this was an implicit criticism of the leadership candidates. All of them. I think they weren't looking for that progressive alliance and they weren't telling a story about a feature. Helen do you buy it? Well I think that depends which aspect to this that we're talking about if we start with the first issue bless plea for there to be cooperation between Labour and the Liberal Democrat so he did sort of touch some conditions in to that in terms of the Liberal Democrats being serious it wasn't just a plea labor as he sees it to be serious. I think several things struck me about it. The first is that Blair has always been alone in this obviously but very keen on this language of being progressive in some sense that doesn't actually differentiate him from people much further to the left within the Labour Party and all of the leadership candidates totally comfortable in the language of progressivism. It's just they don't like the joining with the Democrats. Are we read the speech again this morning? And it's pretty difficult to work out. What Blair actually means by progressive? I mean in some sense. I think that which is quite common with him. It is it means newness because it means the future is the other bit visual of something. That's new against something that's all. I mean that's sort of central the whole idea of in presenting his new labour. And he always you know in his heyday like to identify Labor with future conservatives with the with the past but clearly there are plenty of people who think that being progressive means a lot more than simply being in favor of what's new against what's owed and not really interested in disentangling giving any specific meaning really to his idea of being progressive is but the second thing about it is that it's really strange history. I think that that he's telling because in his version of history that there's some sort of birth defects is the phrase that you use. It goes wrong right at the beginning because labor in the liberals should be the same party at the beginning of the twentieth century on. They they come apart and that this is the ongoing tragedy of the centre-left and progressive politics and by the reason why the Conservatives keep winning election absolutely hot from him no Labour leader. Living Labour leader has managed to but really talking about such a short period of time. I think where you could say that there is this almost mythical liberal labour cooperation which is around the time when liberals were in power and when they were landslide victory. We'd Labor's help all effectively part at the Times. Help nine hundred ninety six. I think about forty eight seats where the Liberals are stand in one thousand nine hundred six and that is a reforming liberal government. Passes some of the early welfare state legislation but that Liberal Party I mean can say several things about it first of all. It's it's going to come apart in the end just like the previous version of liberalism. The Liberal Party did over home rule. It's going to come over the first world war you could also say that the two most consequential people in that liberal government turn out to be Lou. George who in the end when faced with a choice is going to take his version of the liberals into a coalition with the Conservatives as outlast the first world war Winston Churchill who's obviously not some emblem of progressive progressive politics. So you've got a pretty small period of time in which you can say that this sort of mythical corporation that is what is necessary actually is on. It doesn't last. It makes me think of the fact that many people in the Labour party believed that stories being repeated because Nick Clegg given the choice also showed that he was more comfortable forming a government with the Conservatives them with the Labor Party and that as they say it. Betrayal will take a long time to unwind itself. I think Blair also thinks the other missed moment was nineteen ninety-seven. There's always a story. That's told about him that he was completely prepared. In government with a sort of smallish majority to reach out to the Liberal Democrats and then the British people selfishly gave him an absolutely massive majority and say the moment was passed and I think he still believes that he missed a moment. Now and then. There's the question that I was thinking about. Whenever these things it's an alliance or coalition but what's the former politics will cement it. We talked about this. A few weeks ago Blah ninety-seven made a very good case against proportional representation. Which is one route? Great it one of the presiding stories of politics is the idea. There is this anti-tory alliance but it needs a different voting systems. Come to the fore. The other option is the nineteen ninety-six gas which is deals between seats across seas. We just had an election that shows what incredibly fragile thing is the frustration. I have with the Blair account and it connects to the other point about reimagining the economy for the digital age and reimagining. What government would look like? It never reimagined the political system itself. It's always has to be Kinda pass through a very very conventional account of what the goal of politics is which is for political parties under this political system to win power. And we've got one hundred plus years of history showing that doesn't work in the direction of these kinds of alliances and yet he's not because nothing in there about how you'd hold it together. Yeah I think you can also say. Is that what we seen since the one thousand nine hundred eighty s is when you do get a period and I would say that that runs from nine hundred ninety two actually through to probably to two thousand and ten where you do get some tacit corporation between Labor and the Democrat. Voters basically a tactical voting in ways. That make it difficult for the conservative. So that I say it begins in ninety two because you've got much reduced conservative majority of pretty much the same share of the vote in Nineteen ninety-two. It's dependent on the low party being led by somebody like tiny black so if you get the conditions that have quite a lot of Liberal Democrat Labour Corporation than you have a Labor Party. That doesn't actually need the Liberal Democrats not to any considerable extent as soon as you have an election like the ones in two thousand fifteen and two thousand and nineteen where you have very considerable skepticism from potential anti-tory voters about the Labour leader. Whether that's because the significantly far to the left like Corbin or because of the Scottish nationalist issue like in two thousand fifteen with Ed milliband you actually make per difficult for quite a number of potential debris Democrat voters to vote Liberal Democrat because faced with a choice between Labour leader on the conservative state. They go with conservatives. I think that that goes back to the fact that if you look at what happened then to the Liberal Party after the first World War once he starts having these very heavy electoral defeats if you look in the in the nineteen twenties when it makes some recovery particularly in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine does so by taking votes away conservatives and not by taking votes away from the Labor Party so the idea that nobody can compete for itself and then offer corporation to liberal voters whether the old liberal voters all only put Democrat voters ignores the fine that the liberals and the Liberal Democrats have got complicated relationship with the Conservative Party and indeed with potential conservative voters. Another thing that's true. Is that the great wedge in this Mythical Progressive Liberal coalition was the one that Blair introduced by fighting the Iraq war. That's what broke it. So you said this period from ninety two to two thousand and ten but there is this huge dividing line in that period which is two thousand and three which both reinvigorates a Liberal Democrats missiles create this narrative. That's still playing out in the Labor Party about betrayal and what went wrong and is another version. What you just said kind of circular sort of had there been some kind of alliance. I wouldn't be able to fight that war. Which would have preserved aligns but there wasn't an alliance which meant he with his parliamentary majority. Could fight that will which makes healing that rift much much harder and we're still know far enough on from that. I think for any Liberal Democrats and like you say that bit of the Labor Party that considers blade the enemy could ally with Liberal Democrats on their mutual hatred of the Iraq Project. And that's no plas- in mind at all by progressive. It is interesting if you look at the history of this is is that foreign policy questions on questions of the Union as well Ongoing features of the complicated relationship not only between the Liberals on the Labor Party historically but between the Liberals and the Conservative Party as well. I mean if you're about to begin. The the end of the nineteenth century the beginning of the Twentieth Century. In you say well how do you get to a Liberal Party that is willing to offer that corporation we Labor that it did in one thousand nine hundred six? The necessary condition of that is that a significant part of the Liberal Party has gone off to the Conservatives over the question of home rule. How'd you then end up with somebody like Churchill in that? Radical Liberal government is because of the Conservatives profound disagreements about the free-trade question how is it the liberals blow apart during the first world war? It's over the questions about how the war should be prosecuted so actually faultlines around Britain's external in Tation to the rest of the world as well as the multinational state United Kingdom is fairly fundamental questions. That any of these coalitions have got provide some kind of coherent answer to you. Didn't mention the Greens. I didn't think that he in the speech. Nine hundred so there is a possibility that what we're seeing a shift in British European politics again. It really depends on the electoral system that that could be swayed the younger vectors for him. If they were given a free choice many more would vote green and that must be. Puff is progressive aligns and yet the. Green Party is much closer to the Kuban wing of Labor. I mean there's another possible rift opening up here on the progressive side is one of the reasons why. I think black has a case. He should be very careful if your labor about proportional representation because you could open the door not this label them governing coalition for Tennessee but a big labor green rift opening up nothing without addressing that. This still looks like it's is either coming from ten fifteen years ago or it's it's wishful in the context of now. I mean if you look at the problems of the center-left parties facing in Europe the German Social Democrats for example in a pretty significant part of their problem is the competition that now exists for the same kind of young middle class voters that they relied on in the past now. Voting for the the Green Party in that sense is it looks like the German Social Democrats have been displaced as the second party in in German politics by the Greens are now at the moment. Labor doesn't have that problem of pretty significant competition to its green left. Absolutely would I think under a system of proportional representation on the other bit just briefly because it's too big to discuss at length what it would be to re imagine an economy and a form of government that was suited to the Middle Part of the twentieth century and wasn't a relic of the Middle Part of the twentieth century. So sent let politicians have been saying this for about twenty years more since they noticed that there was a digital revolution. They were going to have to come up with an account with a future which recognized the changing character work of labor of sharing of ownership. So on there's nothing in bless speech to flesh it out. I'm sure probably he could summon up some think tanks to come up with some ideas still seems to me that the most interesting versions of those visions of the future are coming from the of the Labor Party. He doesn't like I mean I think. Pull MASON IN POST. Capitalism has a much more interesting account of what a future economy and future form of politics might look like from the point of view. The problem with it I think is not necessarily some of the core ideas but it seems completely wishful about the basic politics of winning and holding power but then goes back to his earlier argument. I mean it seems to me like he's going around in circles here. He wants both a conventional account of how a party like the party that he led governs with a majority of very twentieth century idea and ideas that are suited for the middle of the twenty first century. And I think you've got if you're GONNA do the second you gotta give up on the. I don't think he's if you're a Blairite April air follower. You have to accept that you can't have it both ways. You can't want it to be nineteen ninety-seven again with a philosophy seat for twenty twenty seven. I think twenty twenty seven. If it's new is really new. Yeah I mean I agree entirely. I mean I think this goes back in some sense to the way in which Blair fetish is is really newness. I think one of the things that was to me striking about the speech when he's talking about the future is how we really frames. That almost entirely in terms of Technology Carlson. It is not the respect. The white heat the technological revolution continental whether the Brexit was entirely missing from the the speech but it any substantial discussion of it. I mean that is a a future that has to now be worked out in quite literally. The United Kingdom is ripped up its previous constitutional relationship with the European Union with profound consequences for its own constitution. It's about changes economic relationship with the European Union. And it's doing so in a completely different geopolitical world than the one in which Blair became prime minister and these demands of the future. Knew that is new but this is not something that he's got anything to say about. Now I think in part by is because in some sense. This is past coming back. Is the past constitution coming back at something about pass? Geopolitical competition coming back is the question of basically having to reconsider. Fundamental trade relationships are coming back and then not the conduct questions the blaze mind I think is attracted to. He's attracted to the idea of the radical transformation of the president by these big forces. That mean that nothing is ever like. It was before at the same time though as you say being trapped in a narrative of well we can go back to me as prime minister and understand how I became the successful prime minister. I have that still has supposedly has guidance for the party. Despite the fact that on this the fundamental big future question for Britain is Britain over the next decade is how to reconfigure. Its its place in the world and its domestic politics relation to Brexit Blair. Entirely bet on the wrong outcome. I don't mean that any sense of the it was wrong to want to stay in the European Union but he he gambled that he in some sense he could stop the off after I after it happened and he was utterly defeated. The he doesn't seem to have anything to say about what the future of political response the low parties should be to. This changed political world. Maybe I'm saying the same thing but when I read the speech it says a new kind of government in a new kind of economy. It doesn't say it's not like how speech anyway. What the relationship is between the two? Does the new kind of economy generate new forms of government to new forms of government generate a new kind of economy and my feeling is that he still assumes the government. Leads on this. Somehow that you're somehow going to get a government that reconfigures the economy in a way that makes it Farah for the kind of people that Labor exist to protect but it never explains how the two and it's going to be a messy relationship. Connect to each other and I had the same thought which is Nebraska is. The thing is actually driving a really fundamental question about how the economy relates to form the government and have forms of government can account reconfigure the economy and in some senses camp. I mean that's the other thing that has to be some skepticism here about whether you can just do it. I mean it's it's fine to want to do it but is it really the case in the digital age? The government can reconfigure the economy. But the test is not GONNA BE BLAST. Test is going to be brexit and that she was seeing. I mean that's the way to talk about the other side of politics on. We seeing version of that argument being played. I inside the Conservative Party. Right now. This question. Let's don't make it a little bit. Cummings but this question about whether government really can drive the reconfiguration of the economy or whether the government actually is at the mercy of forces. It can't control basic real question of politics. We're seeing it. We're GONNA learn things about that but it's not going to be blessed lesson now. They clearly two aspects to these kind of dilemmas of the the government. Conservative government faces. The first is a domestic won't because this conservative leadership is taken the view not least because of the electoral geography behind his electoral victory. That some fairly fundamental things about the way in which the British domestic economy works of the change. They hoped that they can use the power. The state to change the regional distributional outcomes not the way that the British economy has worked for the last at least the last thirty years if perhaps no longer includes pushing innovation or not. Just redistribution is. It hasn't Blair Elementary. Which is if we all moving into this. Brave new world of the win is going to be the people who are technologically most nimble. Let's do it out of the North Midland. But it's also obviously. I'm a question in relation to the British Labour markets as well by ending freedom of movement in relation to the citizens and controlling. Who can come in an economic sense to work in the British economy? But it's how to do this at the same time as reconfiguring Britain's economic position in the world and DC's coming to you know obvious tension with each other so if you say well what is it that the government wants it would like judging from the species at least that that it makes it would like eleven upper gender home to use its terms and it wants a global free trade agenda abroad and the way in which I work in the long term at least is is that Bush is going to be have a more adaptable economy and is going to be able to offer some leadership on the trade questions. I'm leaving aside. All the difficulties of what leveling up can mean in practice and what governments can and can't do about it is the problem that the world at the moment is moving in the opposite direction where trade concerned is. That trade is becoming much more geopolitical question though much more charged geopolitical sensitivities around supply chains than they were five years ago is that the American president has been engaged in a trade war effectively with China is constantly writing a trade war with the European Union. The British government is going to be simultaneously trying to negotiate a trade agreement with the European Union and a trade agreement with the United States. And all this is got to be made to supposedly complement each other without getting tangled up in the website. Someone like Michael would say is the essential great power economic struggle going on between the United States on On China and these are the most immediate future questions and some of the things that Blair would say would determine the future UH likes of global technology issues all the very ones actually being contested as part of this renewed trade talking. Politics is brought to you in partnership with the London review of books when you say that the goal is to make the British economy more adaptable. So it's fit for purpose in this world. So one version of economic adaptability. Yes you restrict freedom of movement from people coming in from the outside. But you need people move more internally. I mean that's part of how an economy makes itself adaptable. The people we took s to do flow about this people are less sticky but the economy itself. And that's boys meant to be one of the stories about the US economy in probably a myth. But people do move. If you'RE GONNA rebalance it in favor of north you're going to have to get people moving back to the north on you. I mean it's not Po. What this has to be about which to me suggests the really strong faith in the ability of governments to shape behavior as well as economic outcomes. Isn't it quite an aggressive interventionist agenda to get to the state of adaptability? Don't you actually have to do a lot? And that then opens up the question of internal divisions in the Conservative Party because there are lots of people for whom getting to the point where you count. Adoptable requires the cost intervention that. They're very very uncomfortable with just want to let the economy kind of find its level. I think there's a. There's a really interesting sort of tension here. We go to the off. What the company's always trying to to do and that is is doesn't really think of the leveling up agenda US complementary to the external free trade adaptability agenda or does it think of it as a necessary safeguard for pursuing the adaptability. Free Trade. Agenda is leveling off actually supposed to help in terms of trade deductability or is it. How effectively provide some political stability home while you're having to do things that in other respects are more aggressively pursuing a competitiveness agenda when it comes to trade? Now I think most optimistic. They might think the two things are company but it's not difficult to see how they run into considerable tension with each other and partly that will come about because it's not clear yet. How much political support those in the border conservative pop parliamentary Conservative Party? Doing some of the things that the leveling up agenda might require. We're not in the business trying to read the mind of Dominic Cummings. But I'm just GONNA GUESS. I think he believes that the complementary I think it's partly that mindset that thinks that somehow British politics and economic life is got trapped in the blog and the blog is centered in London and there are these vested interests and there are these ignorant people he can't DC before crossing and can breaking out of that even physically relocating physicists. To the north of England does create a more dynamic society that will be better suited to this by suspect. He's kind of alone in that or close to being alone in that. I don't think there's a huge constituency for that is quite a maverick position and I think it's more likely that the party itself is as you say really divided on this question and it's a it's a deep division. I didn't know you might be able to explain this. I don't understand it whether it cuts across the kind of says he Javid Rasheed neck switch in. There's a power struggle gang on number ten control with the Treasury as a battle between special advisers but is there a philosophical dispute going on because a conservative party is philosophically potentially divided on the question. About whether you whether you just doing this as a safeguard. He won the season. Go to kind of keep them sweet. But you're basically in the agenda free trade and potentially even deregulation whether you're actually you genuinely believe that there is a philosophical justification for much more state intervention to create the kind of society as a conservative. You want on the on the dispute between the differences between that the president and the previous chancellor there is a attention this clearly that sort of in some sense existed for the entirety of conservative parties existence. Is that on the one hand it has been party that has people in it who are economically liberal. And that's how they understand. The purpose of being conservative is just because it's not liberal again. Just tell us what you mean by liberal. I mean by liberal is is is that the state might need to do certain things in relation to economies but the basic the state should largely stay out of economic life or at least it should act in a minimum wage in relation to economic life and that they see the point of the Conservative Party in defending property rights signed all the things that make essentially market economies functions. They sit in ways that bring about reasonable levels of prosperity willing to engage in economic the ambitious policies. That George Osborne is kind of conservative and he was willing to to go down the northern powerhouse agenda in that didn't involve in part by using the power of the state to do to do certain things but that's coexisted with. Let's call it disraeli's Conservative Party where the place. The Nation is being more significant. The state has been seen in more positive. Terms at the point of the Conservative Party has in some sense being in. Its name to conserve certain things and that includes certain traditional forms of authority traditions in relation to culture and I think the manifestation of that in the present debate is in those who want to say. Actually we need to take place seriously and that they would interpret then the victory in the in the last general election as the assertion of these particular places that had previously been labor looking to the Conservatives to articulate something of that in relation both to Brexit but also in relation to a Labor Party that seemed to be indifferent to those kinds of concerns and the emotions that they that place generates. If you think of the the leveling up agenda in in more defensive terms if you like in terms of a defensive politics terms in sort of saying okay we won these these. We need help. We need you here and that we need to in all economic policies at home give those often towns a certain dignity back you gain. That is one kind of direction that the Conservative Party can go. I don't think it's necessarily they walk. Cummings is interested in as you say I mean. I think he's would seem to be any way more ambitious in thinking that the leveling up agenda can as you say part of the external adaptability agenda. There isn't necessarily this clash between the the two longer. Competing discourses within the Conservative Party. Is the way that I've been presenting it but having said that I mean coming not conservative? It's not any particular history with the Conservative Party. That's obviously why look enough people in the parliamentary conservative. Party actually not keen on him. The person I was most acute wasn't Johnston was theresa. May I mean trees? Macy's me the politicians absolutely WISCON- really strongly pulled in both directions in one sense as a conventional thatcherite of some kind and the Nick Timothy version of Theresa May and it kind of did destroy. Lots of things destroyed premiership but she never really managed to resolve that she didn't manage to square that circle. And there's always that question with Johnson that he can square the circle by not about whether it is a challenge or not by just kind of as afflicting one way or the other. It was almost as she took the dilemma more seriously than he did and that the conceivable takes a dilemma. Seriously has really got a pro at some point. I think Johnson's going to have to face up to it. It is the deep challenge and Brexit and Corona virus and everything else can throw a government of tracking a week. And they're going to be things that will happen in the next six months. Never mind the next six years make Johnson really have to face some serious risks but he can't avoid the dilemmas. You described it that the body is probably most successful when it finds some way of the tension coexisting both parts of its historical inheritance have got to have got to co exist with each other. I think what we can see though is. Is that reconfiguration eating? Both Britain's internal economy in its internal politics and reconfiguring. Its external relations is going to strain the relationship between the different parts of the policy in a pretty intensely. I think too. They're not in which we haven't mentioned so far really audio. In relation to label conservatives dilemmas is all got to same time be played out whilst still a significant secessionist pressure within the United Kingdom's politics immediately from Scotland but also probably in the medium-term in relation to Northern Ireland to. Let's finish with the geopolitics of this touch on something that he said that. We're GonNa talk about something that you said at more length and electricity gave when we're going to make available to people who want to hear it too so to connect back to the episode that we did on macro. He is the most significant portion in Europe at the moment. And he's been talking tough on the negotiating phase of the in the next negotiating phase of the brexit deal. To what extent is this government's fortunes tied to the the macron takes? How much do you think? How much leverage has he got over the next six to nine months of the brexit process? Could he really make it hard for Johnson? I mean yes I mean. I think that any anything to do with these negotiations can make can make things hard on not only the direct negotiations between the British government and the U. Over the future relationship. But also how things are going to go and trying to negotiate a trade agreement with the United States. If you put so many things into play. British politics has into play. At the moment. There are going to be contingencies. Coming in from all directions that have got the ability to really cause huge problems for any government leaving macron. Aside at the moment there looks to be a pretty severe disagreement between the E U and the British government about not the basic structure of the the trade talks. But the starting place of the Munich GonNa Start in radically different places from each other. Johnson's has made it clear that as far as he's concerned that he's willing to put significantly higher premium on. Let's call it. Sovereignty than on trying to achieve US richness tried as possible from the point of view of the EU. It's clear that they are going to be pretty insistent on what they see as sticking to what I thought was agreed in the the political declaration particularly in relation to level playing field issues and they are not willing to say that the Britain can have the same kind of trade agreement as the negotiated with Canada for instance. Because they say you simply can't compare person as an economy in relation to the U. When it's sitting sort of twenty five miles across the English Channel is narrows point with the trading relationship with Canada on on. I think that it's particularly important that the isn't seem to make compromises economically with Britain the US credibility as the EU is defended now in one sentence of bit paradoxical macron because at the same time. He's the person who wants to say. Look you spend too much time thinking about itself. In terms of the Single Market Economist. Interview too much time worrying about the US about nine telecommunication operators and he wants the to think in much more Western civilization geopolitical terms on that. And you could say then. The weakness of macron's position here is one of the EU's GonNa think much more geopolitical terms and it needs to think geopolitically about his relationship with Britain rather than just think about it as a matter of the the single market but at the moment contradictions position that macron is holding. And it's going to be even more difficult than it might otherwise be when the Johnson government is committed British credibility or his government's anyways credibility to having these trade talks within a year. You gave a lecture a couple of weeks ago. A Chatham House. We have a recording of it. Which we're GONNA make available through our show nights and it does connect top of the themes that we've been talking about today not just Europe brexit but Black Iraq bankrupted When he could not swayed the German Chancellor Schroder and the French president. Jacques Chirac to support the war. I wanted to comedy you position on the Middle East issue when one was simply not available wherever the Iraq war now illustrated how Middle Eastern discord could spread to divisions within the European Union about Russia. John Chirac could not contain his fury that those issue opinion states that are about to join the EU sided with Washington. Either Paris putting NATO and Russian Phys I without realistic prospect that we could develop this accused. Confederation was back to the problem inherited if the EU were partially Economic Federation embracing could not join Monetary Union in the absence of democratic support. There were limits to British political influence inside the one of the things that you do in that lecture is you you make a connection across. I think it's six geo political dilemmas. That her face Britain and Europe both ways in that relationship preceding in joining the full European Community right the way through to Britain already having left. So there's a feeling about the faces coming up that it's in blast homes his knee and we were saying is new but there is a deep continuities and there. Would you describe in this lecture? And it's definitely worth listening to. The whole lecture geopolitical challenges that recur recurring this face to an includes relationship not just print Britain in Europe but both to the United States. Just give us a sense of what you think is not new about what's coming up. What connects this phase of the longstanding story of hyperion relates to the content of Europe to these earlier versions. I think that One of the things. That is fundamentally different than the previous geopolitical predicaments is that China didn't really feature in the previous ones and it now does and it does because of the fact that China is Paul not exclusively but part of the Lens by which the President American president but I think in on this trump is nowhere near as much of an outline on other matters is reconsidering relations between the United States and the European Union on Europe more generally in relation to European members of of NATO so there is a long history of strained relationships between the United States in the EU. I trade matters I energy matters on over. Nato well and then strained relations between the United States on a NATO these matters and they've had consequences for Britain's dilemmas but haven't played out in a context where the United States is fretting about China as a potential long-term geopolitical rival but these ended lecture Britain often core in these European. Us tensions often pull both ways brand continues to be pulled. Both ways in this brin can't make a clean break from either is not the continuity isn't that isn't there a story about Britain in Europe which does see Britain tune in ways other countries on. This is a complicated question because more since the answer to that is yes in the issues. Arise from the geopolitics on the other. Is that significant? Part of the way in which Britain is ended up. Torn is because of the way in which the if you like the constitutional and the economic questions. Interact with that on. The in some sense but in recurring has been about is about like what wait to put on each of those considerations in working out what kind of relationship it can have with European Union or its predecessors on so I think that the continuity comes because the thing that Britain wanted before it joined European Community is the thing that is now trying to have now which is to negotiate a trade relationship a largely free trade relationship with what was then the European Economic Community. What is now the European Union unto do so without having to mix of any constitutional questions into the mix. I do not get into a position. Where Britain's constitutional order has to be changed by having a free trade relations essentially free trade relationship with the European Union. Whichever form that that takes now. It was because that was not proved impossible to do not Manila and tried to do that and and failed to do that and he wasn't able to us what he thought would be. If you like. The trump card geopolitical leverage security that Britain ended up turning to membership is. The story is more complicated than that. But that's the gist of the story. There now trying to say okay. We are stronger than we were by the true or not another matter Bob is. That's where we are now and say okay. We can try and do this again. We can and say we can have our sovereignty. Or you're GonNa say we can have our domestic constitutional order and we can try to negotiate a free trade relationship without having to make concessions say for example in terms of the European Court of Justice's Authority in relation to to certain issues and the US position is essentially the same as it was back in the nineteen fifties in the early nineteen sixties. Is Now you calm. And part of the reason why you can't is is because of your geography. You're too close to your part. You are part of Europe. We do trade relationships in Europe on our own terms and you're not going to be any different and using security is a bugging tool is still a very high risk it is and so the same thing is going to be tried again which is to try new security in other as a bargaining. Till now I think that the question then is as well. Is it going to be more effective as a bargaining tool than it was when it filed as a bargaining tool? Were clear differences. One of them is to do with the attitude of the United States in a list which is much more supportive of European integration in the nineteen fifties and than it is now but you also got another continuity in that is the French attitude towards these security geopolitical economic trade. Off Questions on that quite a lot of the things that my quantities being signed particularly in the last year over sounded increasingly lot of things that the goal Charleston Golda. The French president was saying about the United States in the war throughout the nineteen sixties afterward. It was de Gaulle. Who said no to Britain's first and second application to join the European Economic Community and? I'm sure that there's a part macronet quite likes the idea of saying no to Persson having a trade agreement at the at the end of this year but at the same time I think that the geopolitical context about to the point I made earlier is in many ways significantly less advantageous to Europe. And just me. Now when I say Europe I mean including Britain that it was back in the nineteen sixties now has left the European Union. How can the Johnston Government simaltaneously construct new economic insecurity relationships with the EU while stabilizing Brisson's own territorial union under secessions pressure in at least Scotland if we put this predicament into his geopolitical context the possible contingency of the American relationship to Europe? Is I would argue now. Central there is the risk that the American security guaranteed to the EU. Nato is coming to an end. That would be a problem for Britain regardless of the British Defense Secretary Ben. Wallace recently told The Sunday Times the prospect of the US and didn't security commitment keeps in white. Could not if you'd like to hear Helen's Chattan House lecture the link to it will be in our show notes on twitter at Teepee podcast on the school next week. If you'd like to come to a live recording talking politics we are doing a morning after the night before following Super Tuesday on CPA Wednesday at eight. Am together a bit before that you can come in here. Helen and me and Gary Gusto. Chew over the results. It's at the mccrum lecture theatre which is Corpus. Christi College in Cambridge will make all the details available in the show notes. You can sign up that we got some other exciting things coming up we're GONNA be talking about superfood costing we're GONNA be talking tonight. Silver from five thirty eight. We'RE GONNA be talking to Tom. Watson about the future of Labor we're GONNA be talking to the novelist an-and right about storytelling. Ireland and politics to join us all of that in the coming weeks my name is David Johnson and weeping talking politics we're GONNA be talking to an end right the novelist about life itself. It's what are we going to be doing?

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Why are so many people protesting?

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

07:42 min | 1 year ago

Why are so many people protesting?

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by MD Anderson Cancer Center home to one of the nation's largest cancer clinical trial programs of its kind providing hope to patients new approaches in detection an advanced therapies more at making cancer history dot Com and by Code Wizards HQ The number one coding school for kids and Teens Ages eight to eighteen visual normally procedure is to listen to one leader finish before the next begins that is not the case so a nasty campaign now develops into but he ruined means prime minister you are sending our liberal team back to work back to Ottawa with a clear mandate we election campaign Mr Trudeau swept to power four years ago promising quote sunny ways but this time around he failed to inspire as many voters he will lead a minority government after his Liberal Party failed to secure any seats in the country's economically frustrated Western prairie provinces including Saskatchewan Alberta the latter of which has struggled with low oil victor in election that saw his reputation buttered and his political career threatened his Liberal Party no longer has a majority in parliament a lot of like fear mongering and lies spreading and it's been something that's never really been seen quite like this before in Canadian politics so by I will make life more affordable we will continue to fight climate change we will get guns off our streets and we will keep investing percent off your first month we're getting inside the mind of the global protester to find out what's pushing people to the streets all across the world live from London skills will prepare them to thrive in technologically advanced world that's changing every day go online to code wizards H Q dot Com and use offer code marketplace to get and gas prices and high unemployment for the last several years the BBC's Chris Buckler reports from Montreal they chanted Justin Trudeau's NAM that's the BBC's Chris Buckler Reporting Montreal there let's do the numbers back here in the UK the pound is down slightly as the prime minister hopes to persuade members lights but there are signs this election has left him scarred and my message tonight is that the strength of our democracy is not only Andrea she does concession speech this is the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service. On Victoria Craig Good Morning I to Canada where Prime Minister Justin Trudeau narrowly won a second term in a bitterly fought the South American nation isn't the only country experiencing rising levels of unrest in the last several months we've seen street protests breakout a state election night victory speech here we go the Conservatives did make gains and those who worked in the Liberal Party Campaign New Justin Trudeau count ignored aw well we're GONNA get to the bottom of the scandal coming from the Conservatives we've seen a lot of like nasty campaigning was rudely interrupted on television by Mr Trudeau decided not dewitt to celebrate his success made a donation just so you know what you're seeing here this is very unusual the parliament today to approve his Brexit Bill in three days in order to leave the EU on the thirty first of this month but opposition parties say they need more time for proper scrutiny and this time it's fueled by deepening social divides these types off issues they are rooted in traditional social thirty so it is really about independence are the protesters learning from each other yes so in addition enough to question about the prime minister's humbling over corruption scandal and that's why when we formed government I will hold a judicial inquiry into his scandal get to the bottom to getting inspired by others they also learn about the issues about what it is you can get really mad out take for instance the metoo movement or black lives matter but also in terms of how to Ebanon Hong Kong even the UK Jacqueline Steck Lindbergh at the University Amsterdam says that's because the protest mentality of the nineteen sixties has made a comeback protests what strategies work during the demonstrations people are in contact with each other before social media to the streets of Bolivia this morning where another election results favoring an incumbent is fueling discontent among citizens yeah death was really really hard but now they can come together or disperse at places that they know that the police is awesome multiculturalism in Canada for years ago in this election old pictures emerged with the space blacked up and the Conservative leader Andrew Scheer reaced quest in the loss of seats suggests some Canadians did it their fee it's shaken and Mysterio do was seen as the golden boy of Politics Angle protest or campaign there is one researcher in the United States who in the eighties histories search showed at around thirty percent of the movements accomplished part of our goal or their goals so it is well in general they take four years and in elections in general about multiple issues so protests US actually make a difference that there's anyone on the other side hearing that and an acting it's very very hard to single out defects of one he's a rather effective way of citizens to influence politicians because the other way is via elections really proud about how the liberals have handled that and taxes Mr Tito's supporters may see him as white it's not now it's one thing for protesters to take to the streets to show their dissatisfaction on a range of issues and to push for change but is there any evidence that these protest give you the opportunity to focus on one single issue that you deem important rather than waiting for the next elections Jacqueline van stickler from the view university in Amsterdam. Thank you thank you finally diamond. Giant beers is losing more or less term as customers increasingly consider lab-grown jewels supported by Alpha Trader Alpha trader is a weekly investor focused podcast produced by seeking Alpha that will dive into the most impactful market news and set the stage for upcoming markets quarter production is down fourteen percent do mine closures and weaker market demand in London. I'm Victoria Craig with the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service this marketplace podcast wii commence led to a chance that would probably on more appropriate at a rally for President Trump in Canada's near neighbor pitches in society between the haves and the half knots at Luna also Hong Kong is related to central and peripheral events hosted by Aaron Task Stephen Alpher every Tuesday new episodes include discussions with market experts on topics that are relevant active traders who are seeking Alpha these virtual teacher led classes have student success rate. That's fifteen times better than self paced

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One month after the unlosable election; and why we no longer need NATO

Between The Lines

28:52 min | 1 year ago

One month after the unlosable election; and why we no longer need NATO

"The. And welcome to between the lines on a online and listen up. This is Tom Switzer, and as always, it's great to have you company will coming up later in the program discussion. We locked coal with the benefit of Hans now seventy years ago, Naito was created to contain Soviet communism thirty years ago, the threat that justified Naito that disappeared with the full of the Berlin wool get twenty ago, Naito expanded. We just infuriated, the Russians. So with the benefit of Hans, not the question today is was night, how expansion such a good ide- stay with us for that. Well, it's been a month since the federal election and the live apart. And the commentaries they remained in a state of disbelief and despair. This was, we will told the unlivable election. So just how did the pundits get my so badly? Roan is it fair to just blind? The polls will the coalition scare campaign as if scape campaigns never happened in politics. What do you think was this election reminder that many commentators, especially in the camera? Chris gallery. They really do. Leave in a bubble. Well, one veteran columnist consistently believed that the coalition had a pathway to victory and he's my guest today. Jared Henderson, now you've no doubt seen him as a regular guest on the inside, as you can read these call them every Saturday in the Weekend Australian, and he publishes a Wally read blog called media watch dog. Now, jeff. Rod is one of the leading historians of the liberal party. He's books include Menzies child, liberal party of Australia and Santa Maria. A most unusual man as published by immu p the Papp's Jared's. Mine work is executive director of the Sydney institute. Jared, it's great to have you on between the lines. Thanks for the invitation to them. Now, what are the punditry get the election so badly? Wrong, what I think you've got to look at brief contemporary history here. We know that the polls go to wrong with Trump's victory. The polls got it wrong with bricks and the penetration Australia should have been aware that Paul's aunt, who is reliable. But in a in a sense, I think must of the commentators in most of the journalist wanted the coalition defeated, and there was a sort of projection onto the electric of their own views. They didn't believe that the coalition was worthy of government. They didn't believe modem timbale should have been overthrown. They wanted the. Coalition replaced, and I think they projected onto the electric debuts day held without checking out what the views the electric hill, and I think biolog-, many of them are out of touch some common title is on the lift such as professor Judith Brit, from Latrobe university shoot. She took to the cover story in the monthly magazine leading up to the my I election. And she said that this was the headline laced self interest groups, the liberal party has little lift, but appeals to the hypocrisy on her lawn was that the liberals must be hoping that enough of it supporters. These are woods hours, morally bankrupt as it has become happy to try the planets, and they children's future for pocketful of Silva. Judas breath is very often wrong on these matters. It's twenty five years ago. She predicted the end of the liberal party that didn't work out too well, and then I saw her piece in the monthly, but it's rather superficial. Peace and innocent Sasol fractious pace because what she's saying is that Australian shouldn't be primarily consumer their economic interests. Now, I always sought before the campaign during the campaign that essentially Australians would those on their economic interest, because that was the only thing that can really determine about others thought that they should vote on perceptions of climate change who perceptions about the liberal party. But that's not how have worked in the past and, and make sense. If, if you'll someone on on modest to listen, modest means you're gonna look look after self. And, and I think it's wise that you do that. It's not simply self. It's also you family. I think there was a tendency of many of the commentariat heated look down on other astray ins they thought privately I thought they wouldn't express it they thought they went as. Well educated today with I wanted us in a sense that as morals with wanting, the real big issues. I mean in, in a meeting, I did very few discussions before the vixen vetted, one, one business Madiun, David Maron, Jennifer Hewett, and David Meyer. Showed me, the whole election was going to be decided on climate change and suggested David that he might drive out to the suburbs. So into some of the regional towns to find out what people really talking about about. He didn't do this and I didn't finish to the MAs of the will that they, they are get out clause now is that, well that would just following the polls and the polls consistently said that the coalition would not win the election and raises the question. And we saw the same phenomenon happen both with Brexit and Trump. And we've talked about the shy Trump factor that people feed and meeting, I'd vote for the Republican nomination, because he was socially unacceptable during the twenty sixteen Brexit referendum Paul's pointed to remind. Find victory millions of. Scheib residencies unite crypt into the Pauling booze. I voted leave you'll saying the same phenomenon heath. Well, we are saying the same here, but there's another factor. It's wrong to blame the Pels in in this insulin, usually, the Pels arrived, this time, the weren't right? But in any event, the magin was fifty one and a half to forty eight and a half. And that's still within the magic mirror. So very unwise for any journalist to say, well, look, the coalition's behind by that, much, of course, look at ninety ninety three when Paul Keating won a come from behind election victory Johnson. That was a classic wasn't it. Well, it was in 'cause pull ditties victory speech out in the western suburbs. And he come into the second eleven of journalists being sent. All the I live in was hanging around waiting for Joan his victory speech, which he, which he never delivered. So in a column, I did the Australian before in the period of the election said, Labour's, he went from a position on three occasions, not seventy two with Gulf with him. He was not a popular figure, but a huge figure then with Bob Hawke, who was both very popular figure, and a huge figure. And with Kevin rod who wasn't a huge figure, but a very popular figure. Now, when you look at it that way, Bill, shorten wasn't at that level. And then there was this fixation among sections of the press. Go raise it, the review among sections, the prescription some other commentators, that's okay for the liberal party to have a later who might win provided his name, Malcolm Turnbull, preps. Julie bishop. They didn't believe that the term should have been replaced, and therefore, they didn't believe that Morrison could win because they predicted they've you of turn belong to the electorate. But the electric didn't have that view of timber all guest is Jared Hinson is a columnist with the. Australia now on election, not the vanquish Tony Abbott. He talked about a political realignment in this country. Let's heave from the former prime minister. There is something of a rail lineman poets going on rolling around this country. It's clear that in what might be described as working seats. We are doing so much better. It's also clear in, at least some of what described as wealthy Sates way undoing it tough. And the Green Left is doing better. They will be gripe deal of analysis of the pot that climate China deal did not ply in the ring outcome. And let me just say these says, my first word if not necessarily my last word on this subject. Climate change is moral issue. We liberals do tough where plummet China is an economic issue as a result tonight shows. We do very. Prime Minister Tony Abbott on election, not on the emerging political realignment, Jared Hinson truth to that. Well, there's a lot of that if you look at some of what with the very safe liberal seats in Melbourne, and in Sydney, Matt Higgins on north or Sydney, Brad field. And of course, went with, with liberals one, but it's still a very big thing against the previous elections thing from the by-election the liberal vote went down to a greater or lesser extent. But then if you look at west and Sydney, satelite read and others liberal. And banks, liberal vote, substantially increased respo- and seat in big. Swing against books. So what's happened? Is that the way it's looking? I don't make predictions. It's very unwise to make predictions, but you can see that the liberals can gain most seats in Wisden Sydney, because because of a combination of spirituel third is out. There are a lot of people have migrant backgrounds or a lot of people who are Christians or Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, men and women of faith. And look, it was meant it was many years ago that Bill Sheldon warned about about the labor party losing connection with people faith, but he didn't do anything about it in tap again. So what did came Bazeley senior say about the danger for the live apart in the early nineteen seventies? But I think he said something like it's gone from the best of the working class to the dregs of the middle class or something like that. Look, I thought that was a bit harsh. I mean if you look at the hook Keating labor government. I mean, that was essentially a social democrat. Democratic government and I have because of my own roots. My father had a background in the trade union movement. And in the labor party before the great split in Victoria me. I have a lot of time for the social Democrats, but what has happened in recent times in, particularly in this election? Labour has sort of halted that social democratic tradition, which is tradition in recent times of can Katie. And for whatever reason Bill showed and move the party to the lift and what happened then was that the basic lab voters walk away from the Patty so now you've got a situation where of the ten most marginal seats in the country. Eight of them held by the labour party including one by independent. So only to a held by the coalition. So. And a lot of this is occurred areas, like in, in western Sydney and other places. So what happened was the liberals hell this season spotted of the swing and labor struggled? And of course, then you have this great problem that live has particularly in queens in whistle. How does the lighter party appeal to Queensland I think they have something like six out of thirty federal states? There are now how do they appeal to Queensland is with a left wing in a city, Sydney Leiberman? Well, it's going to be very difficult. It's hard for labor to appeal to voters in Winston at the federal level. They did it with Kevin Rudd, of course, but Kevin read, presented himself as an economic conservative, and that was part of the imitation of John. How she said, I'm a bit lighter on how he's, you know, we're all of it board without put me and I'm more interesting. But I'm just like, John, how'd, but that's not, what Bill shorten said. And it's not what Anthony Albanesi. Likely to say because he said dependent on holding off the grains in his own electorate, in, in a city, Sydney. So it's a difficult task. And there was a lot of talk sometime ago about how the coalition was going to fold over in Western Australia. Of course, that never happened. And so the real determine if the election was that the coalition held the west and, and one in Queensland north of Brisbane, and I'd make predictions about the future, but it has changed about, and what you're dealing with here is that you dealing with men and women work in the mining industry and related industries, people who won't their jobs who concerned about the futures, and you've got to win an election. You've got to present the idea that you've really concerned about if and met Canavan, and the national party led that charge up in coins, the liberals that triumphant finale, I surely Feis, some really serious challenges, attracting young voters, stopping the hemorrhage of conservative support to fringe parties, making sure that those metropolitan longtime liberal voters don't leave the party. Well, that's true. But then you go to look back and say, well, they did pretty well if you just change in this between the lines on our in on Tom Switzer, and my guest is Jared Henderson, from the Sydney institute, and one of our nation's leading commentators. Jared, many commentators still mind tying that. Malcolm timbale could have won the election. Let's listen to what the former prime minister himself told the BBC's Andrew Neil in much at the time of the coup in August. We were level pegging on the public polls, the opposition, and we were four points ahead on the polling in the marginal seats. But bicycling you could argue that the concern was not that I would lose the election, but rather that I would win it telling me your own party didn't want you to win the next. I'm just saying if you analyze credit. Well, Andrew, you've only got to look at the facts, Malcolm Turnbull on the base E ON wall, he would have won the election. Jared Henderson legiti while deliver Patty wanted to win the election. Potties want to win the election. The real problem. Mr. Turnbull was that not so much the polls or they were against him thought the Longman by-election, because he presented that as a challenge between him and Bill shorten on leadership. The liberal party got less than thirty percent of the primary virgin that stage. I think people like paid at Dutton another's realized that they weren't going to win with Milton and that's why he was removed. He was removed because he lost the support of a majority of the of the material and the Liber potty room and what you find is that Scott Morrison was able to win back some of the states that Milton blest in two thousand and sixteen which raises the possibility that the liberals amount of the coach and might have done better with Tony evident two thousand sixteen with Milton Bill. He would've lost some. What you saw what they did was. They went back to northern Sydney that they hill, the ground pretty well in Victoria, apart from the adverse effect of the redistribution that when seats in western Sydney in northern Queensland, and these were the air is where modem timbale didn't perform very well in two thousand sixteen. So I think Morrison did what tumble didn't do, and that is really not the liberal party conservative. Bice reunited got the social conservatives back onside, and they went out and worked on the polling biz and the other point that's been overlooked and he didn't carriage an actual support back into the party. So the liberal party, went in much better financially supported than was expected. And with many more people willing to work for it Paul born join his regular contributor to Iran's breakfast. This is what he said, in the Senate, I- pipe, April, five, the coalition has gone into this campaign with its credibility in tatters. Ju to the fact that the person leading it is not Malcolm timbale is well, that too classic. Case of projection because you think Malcolm Turnbull should lay the liberal party think that others think, than another don't think that it must people very well connected with politics, anyway. But it was for an average astray in man or woman living in, in the suburbs, or original Santa, it was much easier for them to identify with Mr. MRs Morrison than with Mr. MRs Turnbull, that simply effective life. And, and the results are on the boat and Scott Morrison scored well, and those who said the liberals couldn't win. Wisco- Morrison was simply wrong, and what I find is interesting about so many journalists having got it wrong. They have to say this sorry is like another version of lobster paid event onslaught to be has knowledge. He's got virtually every election wrong in the last ten years, that as, as unusual, most of them, Muslim Manatt into self analysis. They don't say mccown it. I get it wrong. Jared Henson's my guest now the inaugural issue of your media watch Jared was published in April nineteen eighty I that's more than a year before the first edition of the TV make. Tijuana program went away since nine ninety seven. It was published as part of the Sydney institute quarterly. What distinguishes? You'll media watch from the IB made you watch. What I think the from the media watch and I watch it, but there's a tendency to preach and tomorrow, I don't do that. I'm much more. Reverend have fun. I state my position clearly, but I don't sort of get up and moralize it everyone and I just try to annoy as many people as I can want us this program to highlight what you say is, I Bassi, Boston group thing, but I'll ask you, these does Australia still need a public broadcaster in twenty nine teen, my view, the interests. Yes, I've never supported the privatization of the I mean it's not going to happen any rate because there's a lot of support for the among rural liberals and nationals because the public broadcaster pleasant important role in, in the lists in the morass landed pats stadia. But what I also notice is that I would say about ninety percent of the criticism of the ten on ten percent of its programmes news. And current his there is a lot of goodwill to the within the coalition. But if the a b c remained conservative free zone with barely conservative in the place. It's not surprising times that the coalition politicians get get frustrated with the public broadcast of. But that's the role for the property broadcaster to reform itself. But I think they'll always be public k now the pay is currently in the news for the rides. They carried out within the IB, see with the freedom of press here. But isn't this initial astray tion of why we do need a public broadcaster? What I think we need a public broadcaster. However, I can understand why the stray in defense force was concerned about lake from within its own organisation about a very sensitive matter about the performance of special forces in Afghanistan. And so if the strain defense fools complaints to the astray in federal place, about a lake that, then that medicos outside the government, which is what Dennis Richardson said on seven thirty this wing, and I'm gonna say the pretty protective about its own its own material and have says, well, but I'm sure this'll be resolved identity think the government involved, but, but we're dealing here with with leaks by people who pledged when I join employment that they want lake. So what you're dealing here. With his the issue of whistle blowers really than the issue journalist. I finally am. I guess Jared Hinson from the cine institute, Jerry, their massive anxieties about the state of the nation. You know, we hit about cross church that atrocity and the conventional wisdom in the aftermath of that atrocity was that shows there's an entrenched rice zooms in a phobia, in the country that. Encourages the locks of this raw wing extremists to go a shooting rampage. We're all too often told that ask stance on a solemn seek is shows where calcining humane in the odds of the world, we've, we've had these recent rule commissions that clearly show badly damaged trust in the corporate sector and the church, you an optimist or pessimist about our nation. What I'm an optimist what I notice about as a part from the criticism of the lift in this country. There's a very high level of intermarriage partnership between various ethnic groups, this very low level of think motivated crime. We all get on pretty well with one another, they wasn't atrocious crime in New Zealand of an extreme right-wing variety. And they've been is limited text within Australia. But by and large. I think we're managing this Sydney, Australia. We managing pretty well. I mean what happened in New Zealand was the security in New Zealand was not monitoring extreme right-wing groups in Australia. Razia has always monitored as groups so on tend to think we. Do pretty well. Our economy is going raise me will also science is a very tolerant place. And the real test is people want to come and live here. I mean it was bad as sort of left wing long till you we'd all be moving out. I mean occasionally, this is promise. Jillian, Ben tied together Candida, once Jane Garo, hinder, Chima, good, and New Zealand. They will hang around when you go when you made a lot of what sometimes Kodori Australians. I mean they didn't have that at all. I don't when, when I mixed with, with people as I mixed with so many people, I, I never come across his Audi a nation among among the people who go out and vote on, on Saturday election. Time you find it among a very small group of lifting until agency a members. But, but if you really serious about this, she can always up and leave. I mean you can go to knees Zealand, if you want to more difficult to go to Canada, but you can get a museum, but he Jared as am I and that's great to have you back on our in again. Thank you. Jared Henderson is executive director of the Sydney institute, who posts Jared Henderson. Media watchdog every Friday afternoon urine. Irene looking back in retrospect Denisot of Hans we'd know Knin what we know now. Will seventy years ago, the North Atlantic Treaty organization, or Naito that alliance was created. It was a magnificent achievement and it was spectacularly dramatized in this use documentary from nineteen fifty ite on four April nineteen forty nine North Atlantic Treaty was signed by Norway Denmark, another limbs Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Portugal. United Kingdom Iceland, Canada and the United States is union upheld nation became known as the North Atlantic Treaty organization, or more simply nickel, they were sworn to stand together against aggression against one would be an attack against. And it worked night helped maintain western unity against the Soviet Union and its block. However, the threat that justified the creation of night. I that is not existed since the fall of the Berlin Wall thirties ago and with the benefit of haunt sought the expansion of NATO starting twenty years ago in my judgment. It was a bad and dangerous. He's President Bill Clinton making the case for night. Our expansion today. We welcome Hungary Poland. The Czech Republic finally erasing the boundary line, the Cold War artificially imposed on the continent of Europe, strengthening alliance. That now clearly is better preserved keep the peace and deserve our security into the twenty first century. For the sixteen of us already in NATO enlarging, our lands. Our goal is to help to build a Europe that is undecided free. Democratic at peace and secure at the time though, many Russians with your use, and several prominent foreign policy realists warned about the folly of getting into Russia's spice. George Kennan was one of those critics. He was intellectual architect of the containment doctrine against us Ivy. It's in the late nineteen forties. However, inau ninety seven a very old, Kenan finally warned that the decision to expand night Eastwood's that would be the most fight full era of the post cold will Aera and a strategic blunder of potentially epic proportions. There was this is kenan's argument. No cle- imprison danger to justify Naito expansion his professor Steve Cohen. Remembering Kenan whom he knew will at Princeton during the nineties, George. Was very wise about Russia, because he thought, historically, he knew Russia a new how Russia would react. So when he said that Wynn Washington made a decision to begin the move its Cold War, military alliance ever closer to Russia's borders. Russia would react, and it would react in a way, it would make us very unhappy and would make the world very dangerous. He was right. Expanding night, I also violated the wise, principle enunciated, bog Winston Churchill in victory. Magnaminity now Churchill was not softy. But he recognized the folly of grinding the face of a defeated foe in the dirt sounded by the way, president, George H W Bush, his senior adviser, and secretary of state James Baker. I remember he used which said in these meetings, ending tell, you know, one thing we ought to do is, make sure we don't gloat on. There were forget a huge press conference shortly. After the wall fell in the Oval Office, and we had a ton of press there, and they were beating up on, why can't you be a little more emotion? He finally looked up at him and he said, look, we got some business still to do. We're not going to dance on the ruins of the wall. The US and the Bush banker also made a promise to Moscow, the inex- change for German reunification in ninety ninety the west would not go, east Naito would not expand into Russia's traditional sphere of influence unless Bush forty one successes intoxicated, by the belief that the US was the indispensable nation as Madeleine Albright, put it thank nude Bush's restraint and move Naito into eastern Europe, wrought onto Russia's doorstep. Two is lighter the chickens coming home to roost today night, Tillery, not just the bombers and missiles that can hit some big no wonder many ordinary Russians believe Naito. Oh, is a full it a word wasn't inevitable to Putin and the Kremlin would push back. He's an IV and use bulletin from twenty four. They called in the heart of the cancer of people's Crimea, doing has always been and remains an eligible part of Russia, Russian president that even putting as informal documents and cooperating Ukraine's Crimea region into the Russian celebration. It comes despite the threats to the punitive sanctions by the west now Russia's pushback in Ukraine was a reaction to provocative Naito expansion now you might say, what about self-determination? What about the rights of the Ukrainians Georgians to determine their own destiny? They are after all sovereign states free to join the whist. Well, listen to profess, join me Chonma on this program. I believe this is a foolish way to think about international politics states that live next to great powers. Don't have the right to pursue any foreign policy. They want Cuba did not have a right in the cold. War, at least from the Americans point of view to form a military alliance with the Soviet Union invite the Soviet Union to put missiles and naval and ground forces in Cuba. We were enraged that they did that Taiwan today does not have the right to declare its independence, China would not tolerate that, and the United States goes along with China on this point. The fact is Ukraine is going to end up destroying itself, if it continues to act as if it has the right to join forces with the west and what the west is in effect. Doing is leading the Ukrainians down the primrose path by encouraging them to pursue this foolish policy when the west has no interest whatsoever and coming into backup Ukrainians as they get into more and more trouble professor John Shammar on between the lines and he can he more from John nicks wake so with the benefit of hunt side, Naito expansion was a bad and dangerous Audie in my judgment with. The single exception of the decision to invade Iraq in two thousand and three nine expansion should be saying as America's worst foreign policy decision of the post, call will era. Well, that's it for this week's edition of between the lines remember, you can keep today's episode in your pocket, you can listen again on the app or wherever you get your podcasts or you can go to the program page, ABC dot net. Useless iron and follow the links and enjoy all the cards since twenty four. I'm Tom Switzer, always great to heavy company. Hope you continue again next week.

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09-16-19 Should Trudeau get another chance?

Native America Calling

59:00 min | 1 year ago

09-16-19 Should Trudeau get another chance?

"Welcome come to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Monica Brain. Can the Liberal Party of Canada keep their top spot in the government. Justin Trudeau has about a month and a half to convince voters that he deserves to continue as prime minister last time around their efforts to get more first nation in you went and Mateen devoter's to the polls this time Prime Minister Trudeau didn't mention indigenous people in his kickoff campaign speech. Today we'll examine the political system in in Canada and discussed the top issues on the minds of the country's indigenous people back right after the news. This is national native news making camera in for Antonio Gonzales. A Navajo man is seeking a stay of execution contending possible racial bias among jury members numbers convicted him the Arizona Republic reports attorneys for less known Mitchell filed the stay with the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit Mitchell was convicted in two thousand and three refer to counts of first degree murder prosecutors said he killed a woman and her nine year old granddaughter during a carjacking the Navajo Times reports Mitchell was sentenced under the Federal Death Penalty Donald The act because the crime was a carjacking that resulted in death Mitchell's attorneys argued in their appeal for a stay that the government held him in a tribal jail and repeatedly interrogated needed him without affording him his constitutional rights. They also claim prosecutors quote aggressive steps to keep native Americans off the jury and made statements to the jury directed against Mitchell's Navajo Heritage Mitchell is being held at the Federal Correctional Institution in Indiana. His execution is scheduled for December eleventh in Maine. Native American leaders are working to change a law that gives the state oversight of tribes the Bangor Daily News reports the Indian claims Task Force has drafted changes to the law that currently allows main to treat tribes more like municipalities tribes say the provision could help restore their status as sovereign nations. The changes ages are aimed at the Federal Maine Indian Claims Settlement Act of one thousand nine hundred eighty which settled a claim by the pessimist quality to twelve million acres in the state tribes have often criticized the the deal these proposed changes would give types more jurisdiction over certain fishing rights courts and gambling enterprises in some cases tribes have tried to resolve many of these rights through the the court the legislature without success the longstanding fight around sovereignty came to ahead in two thousand fifteen when tribal leader said their rights were not being respected in the state legislature Cher- and to withdrew their representatives to the body and he changes recommended by the Task Force must be approved by the legislature at a hearing in Washington. DC He last week Democrats and tribal leaders criticised plans by the bureau of land management to move its headquarters to the West the mountain West News Bureau reports the House Committee on Natural Resources says her testimony on those relocation plans Tony Small Vice Chairman of the Indian tribe Business Committee said the Department of Interior has not consulted with tribes on the reorganisation annexation small said moving bill would eliminate accountability and reduce coordination. He warned them would become a tool of special interests and lose focus on its mission which which includes trust and accountability to tribes the drank. Oh Herald reports Democratic Representative deb Haaland from New Mexico a member of Laguna Pueblo and vice chair of the committee accused Abiola Acting Director William Perry pedley of mocking native Americans in a speech he gave ten years ago penalty said he was a private attorney at the time and said as representative presentative he believes the move west will help the agency work more closely with tribal leaders. The agency has ten thousand employees most are located in field offices around the West. The plan would move more than two hundred positions from B. M. Headquarters Various Western states a student at the University of Wisconsin. Oh Claire found a racial will slur scrawled across her dorm room on Sunday and the message go back to the res- Katie Langer is Red Lake Ojibway and a junior. She told the daily Cardinal Student newspaper she has experienced other racial incidents at the school but said this one was out there even for UW Clare which she called a very white campus langer langer shared a photo of the door on twitter she plans to fill out a report to the university's bias hate incident response team but she said reports about previous racist incidents have often been ignored by the administration Langer said she'd like to see the person who defaced her door held accountable university officials did not respond to the newspaper's request for comment before it went to press for National Native News. I'm Megan Camera. The national native news is produced by Kalani wanted to grab cast corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting support by AARP AARP tackles issues that matter to you your family and your community like fighting fraud find details on fraud prevention tools and events at a a RPI dot org slash AK and by the law offices of Saskia Chambers Sexy Miller and Moncton national tribal rights law firm with offices in Washington DC New Mexico California Alaska and online at S- Oscar Dot com native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America Calling Monica Brain Canadian voters head head to the polls October twenty first the election four years ago ended nine years of conservative control putting the Liberal Party and Prime Minister Justin in Trudeau in charge Trudeau's campaign included a number of promises for the country's indigenous residents he talked of reconciliation and he put to indigenous his people in his cabinet but did he turn out to be the prime minister. The indigenous people of Canada were hoping for a number of first nations opposed his administration's PERP purchase of the Trans Mountain pipeline today we'll hear a few perspectives about the upcoming election and what it means for. I Canada's first nation meat meet people but first here's a minor crash course in Canada's government. The country is a constitutional monarchy. It uses a parliamentary system. They have a House of Commons which elects three hundred thirty eight members of parliament they mainly come from three major political co parties liberals conservatives and the New Democratic Party or the end EP. Whichever party gets the majority in parliament? Their leader becomes prime minister so voters don't mark a ballot picking between candidates for Prime Minister Canada also has a Senate the prime minister not voters select the senators. There's and the senators serve until they're seventy five. They still also acknowledged the queen of England as their queen but only symbolically. She doesn't actually rule the country if you'd like to get on our conversation about Canada's election give us a call. The number is one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. That's also one eight hundred hundred nine nine native joining us now from SC through skype is Wayne case beer. He is a writer and host of the roundtable podcast detainees haudenosaunee from the six nations reserve. Welcome Wayne Thank you also. We've got Karen Puglisi. She's the former executive director the Aboriginal Peoples Television network and a Nieman fellow at Harvard University and she's Algonquin of the pick wachner gone first nation. Hey there Karen and I'm Karen. Let's start with you anything. You'd like to add to my very brief description of the Canadian political system Let's see okay so you nailed it. I think he did a really good job. A few things that American listeners might I find interesting. one is that it's possible to have a majority of government in Canada which means that essentially the party has has the power to ram through for four years and nobody can stop them. it's also possible for this majority government and this might be interesting because there's been a lot of discussion since the Clinton trump election about popular votes it is possible to have somebody elected in Canada who has a majority government in house power but who does not have the popular vote and so I'll just break down really simply really simple way to to think about it so you have three people running in a writing and one gets a hundred votes one get one hundred votes and one gets one hundred one votes there winner gets a one hundred one votes with two hundred people voted not to have them so that's how that scenario where you can happen but you already but majority government but an knocked the popular vote kind of happens so elections in Canada can also be minority governments in which case the other parties can gang up and defeat a bill that the major government wants so as we're going into this election. The question is cool win but also will have a majority government and so have all that power or minority government and it doesn't necessarily have to do with how popular vote was right and also what was accomplished in the last last four years particularly when we think about first nation may T- an you at people in Canada what was actually accomplished having this majority Jordan government for the whole time. That's our conversation today. If you want to join US give us a call. The number is eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight Wayne anything else you want to add about the how the Canadian system is setup no affects so I'd like to go through the conversation in and anything comes to mind. I'll bring it up all right. okay so I WANNA can. Let's talk a little bit about the political parties. I think the the thing that's pretty interesting to me is that there's not just two parties ruling everything. Although the there are two parties that are significantly have have higher members of parliament then you know the third party so so the first one is the Liberal Party explained explain to us a little bit about you know what the Liberal Party is the Liberal Party's of Big Tent Party and it goes host from a range of sort of left to right and I guess you'd say that they they try to be very inclusive and the reason that they tried to do that so they can bring in as many votes as possible. It's often said that they campaign a little bit to the left and then govern a little bit too right alright so that they do a bit a slight of hand generally they they tend to be supportive of social programs programs they tend to be a little bit like your Democrats in the US and then what about the Conservative Party is that are they similar to the Republican Party in the US getting more similar. you know really conservative parties in Canada I'm always a little bit lefty to the tastes of say England at the US like it seemed like we would have a lot of what we call Red Tories so that when you get to the far end of the right on the Liberals and you start getting into the Tories it's it's Kinda hard to distinguish between clean. Look what's happened. I think a lot of it has been influenced from the US is a more right wing. party has come mop and largely through the prairie provinces particularly Alberta. Alberta has a tendency to feel left out they have a tendency to have different and more more conservative point of views and basically excluded by Liberal Party and then yeah we have these a lot of right right wing ideas that are coming up from the US committed influence our politics as well so you'll see things like concerned about immigration for example that comes up in Canada that's sort of being said not just by the US but by other parts of the world as well and then you talk to us about the New Democratic Party so the New Democratic Party has never held power federally although they have held party ah how power is the provinces and they would be to the left they would view Socialist Party they would be ones that started universal. Oh healthcare who advocates working groups. They're not necessarily there was sort of a Labor party if you will. They're not necessarily a green Curti Hertie or an environmental party because you understand. There's there could be a conflict between having you know advocating for Labor and end advocating for jobs and then what happens when you start advocate advocating for a greener environment and sometimes that's in conflict with some of the traditional jobs the traditional additional economy so between the two they'll be fairly on the left and then able to sort of shy away from green policies when those conflict with Labor policy all right yes so we have a someone from the Green Party. Who's GonNa join the show just in a little bit? I'm but let's talk a little bit about the Green Party Karen we you know the green. There's a green parties throughout. We have a Green party here in the United States dates but how is it different candida flow I mean the Green party can be a little bit conservative on some of it values the way they pick a little bit from the right. I mean really though they have been a one-issue party. They've tried to diversify and kind of show themselves as as more than that but really Elizabeth may has been the leader of that party for a while. She's she's actually AH everybody knows Elizabeth. She's a really persona and exceptionally smart she ran the Sierra Club of Canada before becoming leader of green and you know I think as I talked Dr over the years you know sometimes ask questions like well. If you became prime minister and she kind of offices I'm not going to become prime minister really what they see their role as well you know she knows you know what she sees. Her role as as being an influence grew up in parliament and I think what the Greeks would really like to have is have a balance of power born and minority government so that the conservatives or the liberals sort of leaning towards their suggestions and Policy Development and and they can hold the balance of power that can make or break a government be yeah yeah that's interesting I watched the the there was a debate. The first debate happened and Prime Minister Trudeau didn't attend and so it was between the three party leaders from the New Democratic Party Jug meet seeing and the Conservative Party Andrew Scheer and Elizabeth May and it was really interesting to hear in the debate how different the parties are in some ways and also how much they talked to over over each other. During the debate. It was a lot of interrupting politely interrupting but also really trying to drive the point home. I'm like no. This is not what you are saying. You know what you're saying is not correct and things like that well. If you're just joining us we're talking about the Canadian election action which is going to be on October twenty first and Ken Justin Trudeau get another four years. What do you think give us a call? Share your thoughts. The number is one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. That's also one eight hundred nine nine native. We're going to talk more about the Trans Mountain pipeline which the Canadian government purchased and which number of first nations oppose and we'll also discuss some mm additional political parties that the that are showing up in the news but not really that significant including the People's Party the block Quebec Qua- and the ran authoress party. We're talking about the Canadian election today. Maybe of questions about how things go in Canada give us a call one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. WE'RE GONNA go to a short break. We'll be right back. friends and family members of addicts can have their lives turned upside down from behaviors associated with the addiction and when it gets too you much some people turn to an intervention as a way to get the attic help. It's hard work that benefits from professional guidance the goal is to get the addict to agree to treatment and we'll discuss interventions on the next native America calling support for this program provided by the American Indian Higher Education consortium the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities cities for over thirty years a heck has worked to ensure that tribal sovereignty is recognised and respected and that tribal colleges and universities are included in this nations higher education system information on a tribal college or university near you at A. H. E. C. Dot Org off mm-hmm. Thanks for tuning into native America calling. I'm Monica brain sitting in for tear gatewood. We're talking about the Canadian federal election today. October twenty first is when Canadian citizens since will head to the polls. If you WANNA get in on the conversation give us a call one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. Let's take a call. We've got Gustavia in Alaska. Hey there Gustavia via good morning. Everybody nine eighteen. I just like save for Kansas Sake. all all votes count no matter what you're voting for because all voice has a say and very important Alaska we had like I know how many close votes that they slide that counted talked by hand and once in computer price this because it was so close to election like I say important to vote vote for all people want you say something that you wish thank you all right. Thank you so much for giving us a call and Karen Gustav brings up an interesting point about you know encouraging people to vote. Have you seen a are there a lot lot of like get out the vote campaigns and particularly for aboriginal folks just starting up now. I think I mean the some I nation which is our national organization. It's a lobby group for chief so it you know chiefs elected grand chief and or three national chief and he deals else with the federal government on their behalf so they put something every election that really encourages for stations to get out and vote well they try to encourage whether or not successful varies from year to year that pending chopping medically but one of their arguments is that they take a look at the writings things that we're kind of like really close horse races and they overlay that with data about how like if indigenous people voted as a bloc in those writings could they turn it one way or the other and there's about fifty ridings in Canada where first nations if they go out and they vote as a block kin can shape the election and you know that that can be significant in a close race can make a difference between a majority minority government it can make a difference really between who wins and who loses so in that sense not only is it encouraging but what we saw last election because there is a lot of frustration with the former government which was Prime Minister Harper's conservative government prior to the liberals getting elected there was a get out to vote campaign that was very grassroots and people people were walking around with signs. ABC Anybody but conservative and there was a move to vote strategically and so we saw that going into the election and that was just kind of like observational science if you will we didn't really know people were going to turn out to vote but afterwards the were analysis done of these writings and and they did show that the aboriginal vote influenced several of the writings so the majority government that be liberals enjoyed right now depends hence a lot on them getting the indigenous people to vote and if the Conservatives won a majority government feeder to turn those votes or convince indigenous people stay home Wayne here in the US. We definitely have native folks who who unapologetically choose is not to vote in federal elections vote in their tribal elections but you know they don't see themselves as part of the system. Do you have that going on in Canada days. Well Yes for sure and that's particularly. I would say the case at least in the that where I'm from the whole notion Mohawks tend to look very very much the government as a another nation as a nation to nation relationships so the last election in twenty fifty in west something of an anomaly saw that jump a fifty percent up to about sixty two percent unreserved voter turnout which is pretty high and it was mostly driven by a lot of the presentations -tations that Justin Trudeau was making he spoke a lot about. I'm going to create a new relationship. It's going to be reconciliation. There's GonNa be nations the nation so kind of almost paradoxically he was bringing out voter turnout and participation in the Canadian system by talking about a new kind of federal indigenous relationship which is a core issue for a lot of indigenous people that sort of the common denominator out there when you cross the country we want to have a non paternalistic non-colonial relationship. I WanNa talk more about whether or not it seems like he kept his promises and changed that relationship but first. Let's Wayne. Let's go back through There's a couple of parties that we we still haven't talked about so. The People's Party is one. That's really interesting to me because it's it's new What can you share with us about it well? It's going to habits first birthday in two days. It's exactly when you're old and it was founded by a libertarian conservative who is nearing Maxime Bernier East from Quebec and he actually ran for the leadership of the Conservative Party and lost by one percent then to the current leader Andrew share so he came pretty close to being the leader of the Conservative Party but he's arguably to the right of most of the Conservative Party and has a libertarian who is something of an anomaly so he started this party up and I think it's appeal appeal has to the sort of populist nationalist elements of the Conservative Party pulling off really support I think from the Conservative Party to the degree that he has its way on the back of the back I I've heard some comparisons to of him to WHO president trump. Would you say that he's like on the same level conservatively reminds reminds me of the tea party which which is to say a kind of a movements conservatism and trump has really been cold by that as has the whole conservative partner Republican Republican Party in the United States. What about the block Quebec Qua- so but block is uh-huh Quebec is a whole rabbit all we could talk for an hour just keep it very simple Quebec the bloc Quebecois really represents the aspirations operations of the province of Quebec so you have states in the US we have provinces and territories and for a long time now so the the idea the aspiration of separation from Canada has been one of the undercurrents of Quebec politics so they've they've got party? That's pretty much just ironic. I guess they represent the separatist out aspirations of Quebec in the federal government within the the system not to go too far down the rabbit hole with this but I'm just curious if this party acknowledges the first nations in Quebec and what where they stand in terms of the idea of succession from from Canada. I know that I was speaking to someone from the kid gun. CB first nation and they don't even speak French on that on that reserve so Wayne. Would I mean what do you think about that is there. Is there any discussion about first nations and how they feel about this movement. Yeah Galliano Quebec is really interesting. I lived there for eight years and the Mohawks Gung hauge. We have a very how selected the most neutrally a very difficult relationship because even though Quebec has these separatists aspirations they don't really assume to look at indigenous people and to recognize the legitimacy of the independence aspirations or this the sovereigntists aspirations a lot of the ordinal Shonan particularly you know I'm speaking from my own experience and knowledge and I want to speak he can be off of other indigenous people so the Bloc Quebecois you would think in principle that they would be very supportive of indigenous rights instance aspirations. You'd think Quebec would be generally but that actually hasn't been the case okay question yeah well. It's a complicated situation for sure El Caso the last party I know is is not a serious party. It's called the worry Nostra's Party and I noted that their their tagline is our lies. Surpass all the standards of ridicule of parliament. What can you tell me about this Wayne? Oh Gosh I mean I just think of that as and there are many parties you don't hear about from the you know the Marxist Leninists and so on that come out but it's kind of a like a protests party and I don't I don't take it Ashley either say about one of many parties that are out there in the running okay so Karen. Let's let's back to Trudeau and you know there was a lot of hope and excitement when Trudeau became Prime Minister Mr particularly for my understanding. Is You know first nations inuit may T- folks we're pretty excited that he he eh promised to change the relationship with those people with the Canadian government with indigenous people in Canada. Did he an accomplish that what do you think Karen well. Maybe it doesn't matter what I think but I think it seems like a like with the May t- Mateen Asian large emory t don't have of Mateen nations back but back in the US but in Canada there is the people who are mixed blood but formed the road nation prior to Canada orbits orbits nation so they have their own separate governments and their own ways their own culture developed out for trade so they are thank people at a nation in Canada. They're happy they feel like they. You know like when we were doing interviews with them on. AP Shannon Shannon was kind of funny because like we're interviewing Clem Sharkey whose national Krejci at present and our host was like okay. We Know You love Trudeau you you love Trudeau and largely that's because of the first of all the recognition because the mateer usually very left Oh and secondly he did a plot I think open jobs and business opportunities and they had basically been ignored and completely left out by the previous government so then and with the with the first nations that's where the real highs and lows are. I think Trudeau came in he was following. Let's say he was falling about their relationship with the Harper. Conservatives had certainly deteriorated since the apology I think also since losing they had a really strong minister of Indian affairs and they shuffled and that was Jim Prentice and who who sounds pathway but he's been a very strong minister beauty to fairs and they were getting some things done afterthought the relationship basically deteriorated and so been trudeau comes in and promises and makes promises that it just seems like it's impossible both for him going to be able to keep all these things but here's C. Comes right before the election. That's the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with a host of really really significant changes that Canada has to make repair the relationship with indigenous people and Trudeau says I kept all of it. I'll do all of it so I mean it's. It seemed impossible so I think we'll do say some things that they've done some things that they've failed to do. the pipeline that you mentioned controversial some first nations majority of first nations grassroots people really don't support it and some first nations do when I was at a piano we made a point of going out and trying to talk to the other side of the debate which is the be pro pipeline debate and you can really see communities that by participating in oil have gone from impoverished having high suicide rates not having think anything for their kids to do having hockey rink some good schools and and they feel like they're having maybe an influence on the street by participating and maybe making team the industry more environmental. I mean you can argue that point but that's that's what they'll say to us and then on the other side of the people who are dead sense against that so the pushing through the pipeline and the purchase of it by the federal government was down her on the upside a few things one of them was the it got missed a lot in the media but in negotiating pushing Glenn claims one of the things that has happened since the nineteen sixties FBI's land claims many of the comprehensive land claims that Canada where the land was just simply stolen stolen no treaty with signed it nothing was ever given an exchange these are unsettled and when they started these cases started to you come together again in the nineteen seventies because we were able we were legally allowed to hire lawyers at that point and a lot of are still unsettled even after all these years going into we do century one of the interesting things that happened with first nation didn't have the money to pay lawyers so the government was making loans to first nations and the idea was when you settle your land claim you pay them back but several years and billions of dollars later you start realizing that you're in the sloop you've gotTa keep negotiating because you've got to pay this lawyer but you may end up spending all the money out of your land claim on paying the lawyer and bay forgave species loans like they said that they would forgive these boats and so that was a little blue and mainstream Canada. I think that story because they didn't understand it. they've been fighting reasons. The liberals have been fighting two reasons that scene incomprehensible against settlements towards children brin who have been in federal child welfare systems be indigenous child welfare system is federal run essentially by the federal government although it's supposed to be run by first nations but the they they have the purse strings right so they've been underfunding it for many years human rights tribunal has ordered them. I'm to pay and said that it was discriminatory and they had to be cold dock. Before the Human Rights Tribunal several times and recently they've ordered the the government to pay every child has gone through system since two thousand six I think it was like something like forty thousand dollars each and there's about fifty thousand I was in children's who could be impacted so it's why would you why are there showing such resistance to really changing that the system and improving it and settling it. It doesn't match some of the other things that they're doing. you've no doubt heard about things like water were they over over promised and couldn't quite deliver ripe like grassy narrows which is how to Boil Water Advisory For over twenty years and still will they do not have water that they can just drink right from the HAPP well. If you're just joining us we are talking about the an election the federal election in Canada and if you want to join the conversation we love to hear from you. Give us a call. The number is eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. Do you think Trudeau kept his promises and Are you comparing this system to the system in the United States. What do you think about it? Give this call one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. We're going to go to a short break and after the break we are going to talk with a representative from the Green Party of Canada and we'll hear a little bit of the first debates between three party leaders in Canada will be right back support court by the Intertribal Agriculture Council annual conference agriculture investing in sovereignty the country's largest gathering of American Indian agricultural producers tribal natural well resource professionals and USDA service providers focusing on native agricultural production sustainability and conservation at the Las Vegas Hard Rock Hotel December ninth through twelfth. Our ancestors fed themselves and weaken too early bird registration ends November Eighteenth Info and Indian egg dot Org This is native America Calling Monica Brain. We're talking about the Canadian election today. If you want to get in there still time one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight eight before the break we were talking with Karen Police. She's the former executive director of the Aboriginal Peoples Television network and an Eamon fellow at Harvard and Karen anything else you wanted to share about Trudeau's promises and whether or not he he met his promises. I think the only other the only other things like it's a little weird stuff. I'm GonNa Serve Indian affairs and now how broken that department and so I mean there are a lot of jokes in countries like Oh great now. We've got like two Indian affairs departments but it was a real surprise and he actually did that. He said out of the Nineteen Ninety six World Commission on Indigenous Peoples one of the things that happened. That's concertos whenever people get very angry about something they have a real commission and we all sit down and studies problem so in not one based said that maybe maybe what should happen is that the service part of Indian affairs should be divided from the government's part because at some of the governance things could could be transferred over actually to first nations to control themselves. That's supposed to be the idea behind it. I don't know I don't know if I'm mccrone seemed like I really understand that. There's there's a difference though right I want to add one more voice to the conversation joining us now. As Lorraine rain recommends. She is an indigenous affairs critic for the Green Party in Canada and the rain is gone quinn and of French descent and a band member of the Serpent River First Nation Welcome to native America Calling Lorraine thanking Wanaka. I'm glad to be here okay so I I know you WanNa talk about Trudeau when I want to hear your thoughts on Trudeau but what is an indigenous affairs critic well. I'm part of the shadow cabinet inside the Green Party already and my task is to track legislation that comes from the federal government and look at impacts on indigenous people pull and make well conduct analysis and try to figure out where they're going with it and maybe sometimes criticize most often criticized especially asleep and there's lots to criticize it so it's a huge file and I've often told the leader of the party that is very challenging because because indigenous affairs deals with everything it deals with you know land-management deals with governance it deals with social services so we you have a critic for every everything from transportation to foreign affairs inside the Green Party but we've got one indigenous affairs critic detract track it all so you know we've got to look at. I think what you know what we're doing inside political parties and and try to try to do better so I'm curious your thoughts on my question that I posed to to Karen about whether or not Trudeau kept his promises well. I would have to say that I think a lot of people including myself are disappointed with you know with what he presented and I think the fact that the relationship has been litigious with first nation communities especially over the child welfare file it's just you you know the actions. Don't match two words so it's you know I'm getting offensive. The Trudeau government and the liberal government of Canada will make concessions and address indigenous rights issues when it's consistent with their plans for resource development yeah stuff that would be my criticism so I think there's been and you know with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that was talked about earlier. I mean one of the just glaring SORTA glaring deficiency agency is if we've come through a truth and Reconciliation Commission where people have been describing trauma that they have suffered so through colonial oppression in state sanctioned measures. It's it's just a a huge vacuum acumen terms of healing and addressing those those trauma so there hasn't been any support for indigenous civil organizations. It's to address trauma support healing there's only been talk of compensation payouts to to the survivors of the residential pufus awesome because there's been no investment and support to help people work through those issues. I understand that the Green Party's platform platform though is to addressed address those those types of issues yeah so we've got I mean we've got some you know. I just think it's interesting interesting. I just WanNa say you know we've come out with policy. We passed a motion at our last convention to repeating the doctrine of discovery you know which is really take probably makes people wonder when his side right and they probably roll their eyes and think what does this. I have to do with anything but if we look at foundational pieces in terms of how people have you know built the Constitution of Canada you know not not just sort of the doctrine of discovery you know assumes that commando was tearing novelist and that people had the right to come in and exert authority and exert their own sovereignty over over territory so the Greens are saying well. You know this is we have to go back and reexamine based on based on current legal decisions you know the title is intact him. And how do you know how do we proceed so more thing in 'cause foundational pieces to our platform that go back to the very beginning no one no one is talking right now about constitutional reform but we're getting a sense that in the future this is where we have to go so we've got pieces respecting indigenous sovereignty and and inherent rights to self-determination nation cultural revitalization and healing so supporting people in communities you know implementing the call to action. I think I really do think that's a big piece that other parties are missing in their platform so there's certainly services programs and services that have to be supported but there's other needs that are not that other parties are not identifying those are the strong social needs 'cause communities have been devastated through uh-huh child welfare system and we're looking at investing inhaling yet you know one of the things that sort of stood out to me was the the the debate the first debate was broken down into four areas economy foreign policy energy and environment and indigenous issues and in the indigenous issues area there was discussion of a bill that would put Canadian laws in line with the UN Declaration of Rights of indigenous peoples and I WANNA play this clip is Andrew share the leader of the Conservative Party explaining why conservatives services in the Senate blocked this bill and you're going to hear Green party leader Elizabeth may jump in there are many laudable goals within this piece of legislation flation many things that the conservative I consider government will support that I will support as prime minister but we cannot create a system in this country where one group of individuals one inches community can hold hostage large projects that employ so many indigenous Canadians mining for example is the single largest employer for indigenous Canadians. Ah With this bill is implemented. We will see the complete blockages of large projects that the types of prosperity there were thirty seven partnerships agreement agreement signed with the Northern Gateway Pipeline Project. There are many indigenous canes who will benefit from Trans Mountain and yes there are people who are posed it but we do not live in a country where any one group for people think it's so inappropriate when talking about indigenous Canadians you're missing the fact that section thirty five of the constitution already as interpreted by the courts goes almost all the way to what digital consulting it's not I will check with you till you agree with what we've already decided decided to do. The consultation and it's not it's what you think is concentrated but it helped me free prior informed consent. I just love of that. They're even having the discussion about free prior and informed consent during a you know prime minister debates it's fascinating to me Lorraine. Is this part of the reason why your your behind the Green Party is is this this beginning platform of acknowledging indigenous peoples right to free prior and informed consent because is like I I think it's disappointing because we have we have case law in Canada that acknowledges title being intact and mm setting direction for people and how to undertake consultation then there's a test for meaningful consultation and we're advocating for free prior and informed consent percent and it's really disappointing to hear you know that a candidate who might be prime minister has such a poor understanding of Canada's Constitution and case law so we you know we've watched cases emerged over the years that talk about title being intact Talk Kubota Canada's responsibility so Canada has produced Sherry Duty Elizabeth talked about section thirty five of the Constitution and it sets out responsibilities responsibilities for the federal government and one I one of the cases I mean the judge warned against sharp dealings with indigenous people and I think the Conservatives would do well to read that case you know it's I think holding up a piece of legislation in the Senate to fulfill your resource development. Aspirations is a misuse of our institutions so I think the Greens liens and you know what I would like to save the Green Party of Canada is that we are different from other political parties and a sense we try to take consensus based decision making approach and consensus doesn't mean everybody's going to agree all the time but what it does mean it means that if you disagree you put your differences aside so that we can move forward if if most people want to go in a certain direction so well you know the the policy in the platform emerges from grass roots and one of the things the green I think have to their advantage is we we have connections with Global Greens across the world who are dealing with indigenous issues in other countries so there's you know there's a bigger sure I guess if bigger encyclopedia of experience and information available to us on what's working and what's not working and how to move forward and I think the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous people it's such a critical piece of reconciliation and that we have to have legislation we have have much relation to implement the call and it's to you know to to see a political party blocked that bill you know and they're only they're only motive must be resource development. Don't miss because that's what Andrea Sherr was talking about Wayne. We're getting close to the end of the hour. what is the atmosphere in Canada over. This election are folks excited. Are they burnt out. What what are you getting from this well? We are the callers I got curious and I looked this up today and this probably brings it out more than anything else that I can think of Justin. Trudeau has about sixty one percent disapproval rating in Canada right now two thirds of the cars now don't approve of him as prime minister. That's that's actually a higher number Donald Trump donald trump somewhere around forty percent approval and fifty one percent disapproval or something like that restrictor but it's a lower number. That's my point so I think people are very are very jaded. They're tired of politicians and I have to say day. I think the prime minister said this up his it's his personality. He's an idealist. You want everyone to like him. He wants approval and I think he genuinely wants to make connections with people and he seems to kind of person who will promise everybody everything and when you run in is an idealist produce the ideal and what we've had in Canada are a lot at zero song propositions. You're either going to build a pipeline or you're. We're going to protect the environment you can't build APPA pipeline and I feel that really the exhaustion the the anger the cynicism is something that when you over promise that's one of the things that you produce and certainly engineers people are feeling that way right now he he said all the right things and sounded wonderful but the reality hasn't been there. Do you think that they'll there's a possibility that you'll end up with a conservative majority already a conservative majority boy you know elections are funny things. You just never know I. I think a conservative minority at this point is conceivable. I think everything really from another note. Majority Conservative minority looks looks like it could happen but I wouldn't. I wouldn't bet on anything it's a really close race right now Karen. We're right at the the end of our. Are you excited to be watching this from the states. You know what I am. I'll just quickly say indigenous issues don't usually make it into any sort of leadership debate. conservative leaders in Canada have never sat down with indigenous media so it was exciting to see at least the media breakthrough and for the first time have our issues as a topic a major debate and maybe that's good news for your your show. Maybe you'll have democratic and Republican leaders coming on to talk to you. Maybe this brexit. We'll see we'll see. We'll certainly be asking taking them well. We're right at the end of the hour. When say thank you so much to our guest today Wayne Case Spear he's the writer and host of the roundtable podcast cast? We've got a link to his website on our website native America calling dot Com Karen. She's the former executive director of the Aboriginal Peoples Television the network and a Nieman fellow at Harvard University and Lorraine recommends. She's the indigenous affairs critic for the Green Party of Canada. We're back tomorrow with a discussion about drug and alcohol interventions. We'll see you tomorrow. the national Indian Education Education Association is Celebrating Fifty Years of building education nations strengthening and advancing native control of Native Education at the Minneapolis Convention Center the October eighth through the twelfth. We'll explore critical topics that advance educational opportunities for native students will connect with friends and colleagues with an awards gala a cultural heritage and a power online registration and September thirteenth at an I. E. A. Dot Org Proud to support this show small king gave gave me COPD which makes it harder and harder for me to breathe have pre if your doctor gives you five years to live spend it talking with your grandchildren explained to them now. You're not going to be around anymore to share his wisdom and love. I haven't figured out how to do that yet. I'm running out of time. COPD makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free help. Call one eight hundred quit now a message from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Native America calling produced in the Birds National Native Oi Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantico Broadcast Corporation and Native Nonprofit Media Organization funding is provided by the corporation for Public Broadcasting Broadcasting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service Music is by Brent Michael Davids native voice one the native American radio

Canada Justin Trudeau prime minister federal government US Green Party Green Party of Canada America Wayne Liberal Party Karen People's Party Conservative Party New Democratic Party Alaska Monica Brain Trans Mountain Conservative Party Canadian government Conservative Party
Episode 9: The Last Straw

The Sicario Effect

29:27 min | 2 years ago

Episode 9: The Last Straw

"A listener. Note, this story contains adult content and language. If you're listening to this podcast, you might wanna go back and started up sewed one. This is story being told in chronological order. Therefore, if you come in and episode two, you might miss them details or context that are pretty important of the story from exclave media. This is the Sicario effect. I lack. Means that the Heidel. Alaska's guy. Colombian hired killer known as Papa has been released from prison. Abadie pay. Episode nine the last straw. Well, Franklin, Conteh rose. Death was an epic blowed Colombian law enforcement as well as the country. It was mostly overshadowed by an event that took place the same day just several hours later, your goes to the minority and touching on August eighteenth nineteen Eighty-nine keel. The belief karnal Franklin, king Tero out six, four in the morning on the same day at seven, twenty five of night in so article in America. We kill. But, but you didn't personally kill him. Louis Golomb Nolanda does the Julie's of in our kind Maggie wasn't a temp of nation against on hearing gene, but he was unharmed. Then he went back to where we organize. He's nation. For example, I again on everything was nice by literally got aka enemy. He knew who was an important player in the merging cartel seven, forty, five pm, three car motorcade with ten motorcycles, leading and flanking. The procession speeds along the Topeka, sewer highway. Their destination is the Colombian city of wacho a relatively small city. So watch is considered to be a borough Bogota can like Staten Island or Queens New York city. But officially it's a municipality of the department of Kundun Marco, it's a working class town with a population of around half a million writing inside the middle car is the hope for Columbia. Luiz Carlos Galan the John f. Kennedy of Columbia long. Graduated from Hungary on a university in nineteen sixty five, the doctorate in law and economics after college, he worked as a reporter for the national newspaper, El Tiempo. He began to distinguish himself as a journalist, writing articles about the numerous problems facing Columbia. He. He wrote considerably about the shortcomings in Columbia's schools as a reporter. He interviewed, the president is l. Pastrana the father of under spur strana during the interview Galon displayed a deep understanding of the crisis facing the education system in Colombia. Strana was so impressed with the lawn. Shortly afterwards. He pointed Galon to be as minister of education, marking his entrance into national politics in nineteen seventy two. He was appointed ambassador to Italy for years later, he returned to Columbia and went back to journalism. He published more than three hundred articles. Many articles address the disturbing rise of narcotrafficking and the dangerous consequences that would have on all aspects of Colombian life. Extensively, but the threat of narco-money influencing the political system. In nineteen seventy nine Galon re entered politics and was successfully elected as the Senator for his native state of Santander. A member of the liberal party delone grew frustrated at the party's inability to find consensus on a myriad of issues. He felt the party needed to be reformed and invigorated. He wasn't alone. Another young politician read Rigo Lada Baena shared his sentiments together. They took a hard look at the challenges Columbia faced and decided that the liberal party in its current form wouldn't be affective enough and decided to form a new party on November. Thirtieth nineteen Seventy-nine. Luiz Carlos Galon and Rigo Laura in two other colleagues announced the formation of the new wave. Oh, Liebe Elise party. The new liberal party, a faction of the liberal party by nineteen eighty eighty-two. The Lon ran for president and one, seven hundred forty, five thousand votes. He was defeated by the conservative candidate audio Bettencourt despite being defeated in. Presidential race. It was an undeniable show of strength for the new liberal party in Colombian politics. The message was clear. These guys would be taken seriously. The party was gaining support across the nation. Dhillon was reelected as a Senator new liberal party co-founder Rodriguez Laura was appointed minister of Justice. Numerous other liberal party candidates were winning seats throughout Colombia of all the liberal party candidates that were elected one in particular stood out and until those. A couple induced you couple area candidate from anti Yokio running as a member of the newly formed liberal alternative party. Pablo Escobar was elected as an alternate member of congress. Escobar had originally wanted to be part of the new liberal party. However, after investigating the source of Pablo's money Luis Carlos Galan and Rodrigo Lara took the position that the new liberal party would have nothing to do with the man for medicine. Thus beginning Pablo Escobar antagonism towards two of Colombia's rising political stars. A few months later on April, thirtieth nineteen Eighty-four. Red Rigo. Lara was assassinated by publis Kabar Sicario 's by the middle of the eighties, the deep divisions within the liberal party were taking its toll. As a result, the lawn turned down the opportunity to run in the nineteen Ninety-six presidential election. Instead, he decided to take a break from politics and accepted a position teaching at Oxford University. Galon was enjoying teaching and traveling throughout Europe. The group of ruthless. Men were making big advances in constructing Narco syndicate. That was slowly infiltrating all aspects of Columbia. By nineteen Eighty-eight. The violence in Colombia was beginning to rise. Narco-traffickers had amassed a great deal of power and influence disturbed from the escalating violence in the increasing grip of narcotraffickers Luis Carlos Galon didn't wanna sit on the sidelines. He returned to Columbia in nineteen eighty eight and appeared at the liberal party convention in Cartagena up in data money, haughtily style. Now, the last United style kissy for going on. Several months. He garnered support within the party on July sixth nineteen nine. The new liberal party announced Luiz Carlos Galon has their candidate for president along with his running mate. Cesar Gaviria one of gallons, key platforms endorsed a treaty with the United States for the extradition of Narco kingpins and their accomplices. Colombiano kobo. The moment he announced his candidacy for president. He picked up a groundswell of support his popularity surged Colombians begin to pin onto Galon their hope for change. Real change to put this in context. It's closer to home. One can imagine the same energy and excitement America felt during Robert Kennedy's campaign for president by August. I all of lawns public rallies had ballooned in size, his speeches electrified. The crowds young people were invigorated by his call to action. It was a real moment and Colombian politics. It also made him the most threatened man in the country. Keenly aware of the increasing threats on his life on general, Miguel Masa Marcus director of the dos that's Colombians version of the FBI to review his security detail in protocols precaution it was a prudent requests for a candidate loved to engage with crowds. At the end of July, the dos changed gallons head of security veteran agent, Victor Julio Cruz Dylan's chief security agent during the presidential campaigns of nineteen eighty two and eighty six was unexpectedly reassigned to the security detail of another politician agent Huckabee a Gozo was appointed head of gallons security detail. The move surprised both Galon and cruise, an air of confusion and suspicion took root amongst the security team responsible for on safety on August fourth nineteen. Eighty nine Galon was scheduled to speak at the university of Antioquia accompanied by some members of his campaign staff. The presidential candidate had come to Midi despite receiving. Number of anonymous death threats Colonel Franklin Conteh was well aware of these threats extremely concerned about Cologne safety. He insisted on investigating anything big or small having to do with gallons route. The Colonel instructed all radio dispatch calls to be channelled. His command post later that morning, an elderly woman called complaining about some suspicious looking men hanging out at truck. It was close to the university concerto dispatched his men. A few minutes later, his radio squawked l.. L. is a rocket launcher in the truck. While his men secured the area. The Colonel was immediately brought to gallons location and Medine where he insisted on personally escorting the candidate to Eliah Harare airport where he'd be flown immediately out of marine talking on the way to the airport. They both agreed that the country cannot afford to give into the demands of narco-terrorists. Two days after the failed attack in mitigation Gilan went to Venezuela. He was accompanied by his running mate. Cesar Gaviria their reception in Venezuela resembled something that would be given to a head of state when asked by the press about his safety Dylan replied, men can be killed, but ideas cannot. And on the contrary, when they kill men, ideas become stronger. I just hope that Columbia is aware of changing before it's too late. We've worked hard to change the system to create a new space, and if my death manages to achieve that change in my mission will be fulfilled. Eight. Oh five PM August eighteenth nineteen Eighty-nine. The motorcade carrying Luis Carlos Galan makes its way through swatch inside his vehicle agent. Tori goes, handsome, bulletproof vest on normally didn't like to wear it, but didn't argue the evening. He put the vest on as they entered the neighborhood of lettuce. Spencer Tony goes to remind him of the entrance plans. We will get out of the cars here. You will get onto the back of the truck, which will take you right into the town square, then we can get you out right by the stage. His security team consisted of twenty bodyguards all armed when the motorcade came to a stop gallons. Personal aide looked out the window. It appeared that there were a lot more people from what they were originally told. Another thing is eight noticed. There were no checkpoints leading into the square, and nobody was being searched stepping out of his armored vehicle, rush of security personnel and enthusiastic fans and circle on his bodyguards moving towards a large. Flatbed truck that appears bold and somewhat wobbly. The agents are focused on Galon and don't seem to notice several onlookers hoping to get a glimpse of the candidate are now trying to climb onto the truck receiving assistance from his bodyguards go on has helped up onto the truck. Once all the members of his staffer aboard, the truck slips back and then jolts forward into gear jarring everyone on board slowly. The Trump begins to move leaving the armored cars and motorcycle escorts behind from above. It resembles a sea of red and white. The colors of glunz party. A lot of them drinking cheap, brandy and identity. Radiant. The square is packed wall to wall people, large signs, flags and banners carried by individuals. The truck stops in his overcome with people. Lack of police is clearly evident is throngs Gulf truck Novisti barriers. Keeping people away. His security jumps down to push people back as Galon tries to step down for a moment. It appears he's about to be carried off on the shoulders of his supporters. After a few seconds security helps them get back on the ground, his bodyguards from a ring around him, push their way through the swarm of people reports. The stage waves is used pushed along the way to the stage weeds Herrmann Vargas and Pathy, Osama bear to friends who came to accompany five to ten seconds. Later gets stage quickly moves forward at the foot of the stage is a large banner. Unlike other banners, this one is upside down the detail that lawns security doesn't take notice. The chanting the lawn amigo Pueblo stock Latigo lawn Amiga town with u. louder by the second. Lawn steps forward. He raises both his arms to wave to the crowd. His best rises up leaving his abdomen exposed suddenly amidst the chaos, three loud submachine gun bursts erupt from the bottom of the state near the down. Banner belong falls back. One of his bodyguards, Santiago Cuervo directly in front of him struck by bullets. Another security agent, Pedro Nel. Anglo rushes to Galon side also hit by gunfire standing on the stage just a few feet from Galon. So watch a city councilman Julio Cesar pedalos turns to run for cover the shot twice to the ground shots continue to be heard over, screams pandemonium breaks out in the square over the bursts of gunfire. Four of gallons security agents have managed to lift him up by his legs and arms and carry his body. Off the stage. He remains conscious throughout with weapons drawn several other agents look to return fire, but are unable to find the assailants amongst the masses. Moments later, a dark sedan pulls up and within seconds. The lawns bodyguards begin to move inside of the car agent hotel on his shoulders, entering the car backwards to lay him on the back seat of the vehicle speeds off the bullets entered just below his vest and rip through his belly. The swatch a hospital is situated, roughly two hundred meters right around the corner from the public square worried over the possibility of a second wave attack from the assassins. They decide to take the lawn to the Connell hospital located in the CNN or national administrative center of Bogota thirteen miles away. Noticing gallons deteriorating condition. The agents realize they don't have a lot of time and change course to the Bosa hospital, a small medical clinic in the nearby town of Bosa. One of the agents looks like Alon and pleads. Hold on. Hold on boss, please don't die. Former Galon head of security. Victor Julio Cruz is on his day off at home in nearby San Mateo when he receives a call. From daas colleague who informs him of what just happened crews immediately leaves his house and heads out to Bosa hospital eight fifty, five pm. The car arrives at Bosa hospital Galon is diagnosed with multiple internal injuries from gunshot wounds and severe blood loss agent crews. Now, at the hospital stands with the other bodyguards, talking to the doctor in charge who informs them because of gallons, internal bleeding, he requires specialized surgery. But unfortunately, the hospital doesn't have the equipment to treat him. Cruise makes the decision to transfer him to the Kennedy hospital, roughly three miles away over the radio lead agent tour Gaza informs the other members of the security detail. He's gone to get a secure ambulance frustrated, not wanting aways precious time agent crews orders the men to use whatever ambulances available. Nine twenty five pm. Galon arrives at Kennedy hospital at Kennedy is taken directly in the surgery team of specialists because of his dire condition. Once inside the OR doctors extraordinary measures and cut his chest surgeon, administers direct cardiac massage in an effort to keep them alive simultaneously. The trauma surgeon treats is Donal wounds allowed single flatlined. EKG tone is heard throughout the OR after seven more minutes of attempting to resuscitate him to get no response. Finally, the surgeon calls it time of death, ten twelve pm. Luis Carlos Galan Sarmiento presidential candidate, the leader of the new liberal party. The man who is believed to change politics in Colombia. The country's great hope for a better future was dead. He was forty six years old. Columbia was paralyzed. Its future had been struck by wrecking ball. The police arrested, thirteen suspects gallons murder was ordered and carried out by the Medine cartel masterminded by Pablo Escobar Medellin cartel boss Gonzalo Rodriguez. Gotcha. Aka. And may he personally oversaw and coordinated the operation public bars, chief Sicario. John Jairo Velazquez Vasquez alias. Popeye was in charge of procuring the machine guns that would be used by the assassins. Over the next several years. A government panel investigating gallons assassination would expose vast conspiracy Popeye's testimony. In the case, shed light on several co conspirators and led to the indictment of several government officials Luis Carlos Galan posed an imminent threat to the narcotraffickers, the paramilitary groups and a handful of corrupt government officials who all conspired together to snuff out the hope of a nation for his role in the killing of presidential candidate Luis Carlos Galon Popeye pled guilty to murder and along with the other charges of terrorism Narco trafficking and kidnapping. He received a sentence of forty years, the maximum under Colombian law. However, his sentence was reduced thirty years as part of a deal made with the prosecutor in exchange for his testimony. In the case. Say. That it perform, Jonathan kill Columbia will be Kuchar on organization. Thumper you will never have another organization, so powerful the million cartel. I'm still fascinated by how were you ever scared wherever even in the very first time you had to kill somebody where you scared? No, four k. Yoji powerless go on? No, he was gored men. So he had the stomach for it on from the very first time he killed. He wasn't riskier. And he, no, he knew this a professional hitman. He helped to shut someone into head to times. Have you ever been scared get to LA Vida. Wake on the Madonna by Romulus Korea. So no, the only time he felt scare was went, Bobby, let's go war was taken down because he was in jail on he listened to everyone in jealous yell in. Going down, give EMMY also million up by LA CARA. He, you know, he went to his his sale, his Leppings himself like because he was that care who was panicking. And he said, no, I can't lose control of myself. I have to. I'm almost man. I have to take control of the surgeon. I mean, what a power this person had over you another another's as well. It's. It's it's frankly, it's remarkable because I, I mean, they say it was like for them. Yeah, he was a gut it when it was like a cult. He was like a DVD and I suppose that would take away the fear, I guess, of any I if if you had and at that point it's just doing your job, completing a mission. And I'm curious because I also heard you say something in an interview where you talked about. Killing people and an assassin. Is different than a psychopath. Where's the psychopath wants to kill people an assassin. It's just a job. I have to go. I have to kill these people. It's I, this is, you know, and. Like a construction worker, a guy who you know a carpenter he has to, you know, but when he's not doing it, he's not thinking about wanting to do carpentry. He's just, you know, that's his job and he does it. Interesting mindset. I'm curious how you did you always have this mindset. In contrast the but the personnel. Yeah. One, those throws out onto damaging Noman is council. They have never found any traces of psychopathy in his personality in as personality, but yet the empathy increase here, Notre dear the memo pad, thrown out. The end of the one of those. Brigadier you question he's back then for them, there was no race. They were either scaping or killing. So there was no time to someone thinking of something else they were. They were escaping, yes. Like when they were running away from the lead the for them when they weren't running. Law before they were in the in in Jalen out before they were on the s Cup. Cup under is Capanna though there's a principle policy on joint tic- compiler squads persecution. When he started nine hundred, they were already being. Thank goodness. You're not Horma. So he's gonna. Describe what an assess is like, what has all this? We to deals. North American ideal scenario and assessing a professional assassin here for I mean. The way he describes him is of report person will say, good morning to everyone other respectful person. Very good neighbor actually see torrential castle out peer per Don t set the lamenting. No Rita e for example, he will be involving can actually them with you. He will pay for them. It's just he will excuse himself awarded happen. Do will be no yelling, no show. We know showing oval began, for example, weapons. Nor reckless driving, for instance, respectful, very spectral of of of norms. The only thing that they will do gains roles would be killing or moment when up. Northfield. There's essential causa no lows parties home, for example, for necess- in. I mean, we're in be any prostitutes coming in and out of their homes, no fancy cars. They will leave in the morning, like everybody else do their job on the comeback of night to rest. Just a job is just a job. Exactly. This pedicle seniors. You must be thinking of your neighbors, he'd been. Yeah. He's very quiet respectfully. So. Okay. So now let me go to where. What. Not local. See. So now we go back to where it's. You're in prison with public in the. It's time to run. It's time to leave prison. Did you ever in your mind I understand your loyalty. I have not questioning, but did you ever question this the strategy? Did you ever think that maybe the boss was wrong, mid Neum, ca settle. I'm the os Joe then yes, you have. Yes, you have thrown with Boras quad decided. Ky-ko has to be killed inside prison. Joe. Hi, who was very close quarter. He actually questions. Why don't we kill them outside prison, but bubbas go our seas since with him until seem like part of the process. Like he makes him see the the mistake with that which is lying on ESPN like like I feel like. I feel like on the convenience having these people, let's being kidnapped outside of prison will mean that their families will pay the rent. Some a hundred million dollars on the will leave to the state and the will have a bigger problem than the only have because, for example, they needed these guys to get back some property, even our word that they have actually belong to core. So according to go on, what explained to your hydro. Mistake, having them killed outside prison in how to be inside because the people they trust was inside prison. Normal site. The and they couldn't kill him outside. No emit occasionally. The go-to minus. I mean, no matter how much money the reward was for Public Co. ours have none of them will think of having them to the police to the government. He was just, I mean, does the level of loyalty they have. It could be older amount of morning as they were. I mean, there was no question about even thinking about it. Well. Did you ever think? Did you ever want to become an narcotraffic onto yourself? Meet up, ethical Chima, swear thing, but combating, but who still. On? No, he was very good. I will hit it, which was shooting. I got was very, very good that. But he he has no luck for traffic in no luck for traffic in business itself. Here he tried it. He wants, but he failed. He tried it once really. We've been, how did it fail? MBA. MBA. Okay. Sand shipment to Holland. Whole coordination and everything fail. Not your new era hound up where they've been killing. It would have been a different story. He will. He would have come through everything really. Wow. And did you lose money? But these studies owners say, now we when you try this where you working for just Justa. Russkoe are already that. From here. Wow, you I mean, okay, just from, I don't know enough about Colombian prisons, but from prison, you were doing a deal with Holland. How does something like that even happens? Meet up on this. Let's put money how models producers before it was basically inmates who run everything. They have control over prison with them. For example, very easy to something like this. When the American government intervened to change the situation, bring the American bureau of something bracelets. They the whole situation teams, but actually he points out that was change the plan, but is because of that that he's alive today. So he saying that he owns his life to the American government. If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe rate and review. Seriously, it helps. I hate bothering everybody for this, but I gotta do it. Please visit our website for fullest of credits and some cool bonus materials like photos videos and declassified documents at the Sicario effect dot com. If you're not sure how to spell it, it's the name of the podcast, or you can follow us on Instagram at the Sicario effect for on Twitter at Sicario effect, there is no the in the handle and Facebook ad x. played media. I'm Jonathan Branston your host and writer the shows produced by me Caitlyn Terrel earning her Tato and Madison. Our editors William Broughton, our engineer sound design and mix. Ernie her Tato co-producer Esteban arose co music composed by Preston, no account ski artwork. One Philippa Roscoe. Additional music is composed by William Broten interview translator hundred Costanzo additional translation to Lee at Restrepo Cristina Madrid. Production support was provided by Daniel aurea. Especial, thanks to lure Kate Jones. Marie. Marie? Kelly hundred Gragus hundred goring Alexandra during Tim Ferriss, Tom. Reston Ross Bernard Kelvin wells. The second Saad Mohseni Yoshi OB Ashi Jeff Frankel Stephen Molina and the fabulous Las Manos arose. Go. Additional thanks to the new CEO custody memoria in Medine the Ronald Reagan presidential library, the George Bush presidential library and museum. Michael Pinkney, Mary Finch, he f- admitting Luis Garcia's also please visit the Narco to project at NASA o. t. o. u. r. dot CO. That's Narko tour dot CO. This podcast is dedicated to the memory of gear McConnell, Anthony, bourdain, and Larry Bresnan.

Luiz Carlos Galon liberal party Columbia Colombia Luis Carlos Galan Columbia president Robert Kennedy Galon Cesar Gaviria Luis Carlos Galon Popeye Luiz Carlos Galan Pablo Escobar America Bogota Victor Julio Cruz Dylan Alaska Medine Topeka Galon
Making Changes: Canadian Elections, Opioid Settlement, and Floppy Disks

Skimm This

13:28 min | 1 year ago

Making Changes: Canadian Elections, Opioid Settlement, and Floppy Disks

"Election Day in Canada booting their works a little differently than it does in the US but the issues at stake may seem very familiar then. It's Monday October twenty first welcome to skim this we're bringing down the most complex stories of the day and giving you the context on why they matter it's our website at the skin dot com it's everything you need to know to start your day right in your inbox it over the drama the country's ethics watchdog said Trudeau broke conflict of interest laws but he hasn't apologized then last month there were leaked Pictures Wing Trudeau in black and Brown face he apologized for this one here he is last month what I get the choices I made hurt people hurt people is due for an update. We're here to make your evening smarter let's Skim this today's episode is Prime Minister and Liberal Party leader Justin Trudeau in the other corner is Conservative Party leader Andrew Scheer Trudeau gained international attention thought I was an ally now I am ally but this is something that obviously I deeply regret they never should have done but it's not all bad headlines for Trudeau last week former. US President Barack Obama tweeted endorsement for his old friend saying quote that person might end up being one of two people and they both have some baggage in one corner is six weeks must be nice but that's because their system is totally different they will parliament which means people only vote for their member of parliament in the out to you by Carmax the way it should be the most complicated story today is about Canada today the US is neighbor back in two thousand fifteen when his party won in a landslide his party is heading into election day holding slightly over half the seats in parliament but in the last year Trudeau started the world needs his progressive leadership now so that's Trudeau's deal then there's Andrew Scheer who's the leader of the next biggest party and Canada's government and what's happened I there was an ethics investigation earlier this year Canada's then attorney general said government officials pressured her to settle out of court back in the US candidates running for president often campaign for months even years in Canada candidates running for a seat in parliament campaign for just slipping from the ranks during his first year in office his approval rating was between fifty and sixty percent which is pretty good now it's down to thirty five percent north went to the voting booth for their parliamentary elections polls heading into election day showed the two major parties in a virtual tie so today we're going to give you a refresher on how their political system works who's on the ballot and what the big issues are let's get into it starting with a quick reminder on how elections work in Canada with a big engineering firm that's based introduce home district the firm had been charged with bribery and corruption and the attorney general said she was threatened and the demoted seven million people nearly five million people voted early but it's unclear what turnout will look like today some say that the tight race might draw more people to the polls earlier this month sheer became involved in a scandal of his own the career Canadian politician confirmed that he was also a US citizen he had dual citizenship which yeah well others say a lack of enthusiasm for either major party might keep people home at the end of the day which ever party gets the most votes gets to name the Prime Minister the Conservative Party hold less than a third of the seats in parliament right now she's been in office since two thousand and four elected when he was just twenty five years old the White House F. Y. it's called twenty four Sussex drive which might come in handy for your next Trivia night anyway that means all three hundred and thirty eight C. he became the youngest speaker of the House of Commons when he was thirty two which is basically a position where you oversee debate and he's lead his party since two thousand seventeen but about it so those are the party leaders and their recent scandals but what are the issues at stake here pulls House of Commons kind of like their equivalent to the US House of reps whichever party wins the majority of seats in the House of Commons gets to put their leader up for prime minister in Canada's version it's are up for grabs today in the House of Commons and a party needs to win one hundred seventy of those seats to form a majority in government Canada has a population of more than thirty to be clear is totally okay over there but after fifteen years of being in public office some people think it's Kinda weird you never said anything his response show that voters care most about health care the environment taxes education and immigration but some people are calling this the Seinfeld election seeing don't quote no one's ever asked before fair enough sheer said he started the process of renouncing his U. S. citizenship of you months ago before everyone found out the election about nothing there hasn't really been one big issue that's driven the campaign or captivated the voters so what are the candidates talking about in his while shears career has largely been defined by social issues like his opposition to abortion and his refusal to say where he stands on same sex marriage this time he's mostly campaigned on numbers he wants to lower taxes if this all sounds familiar you're not wrong a lot of these same issues are playing out in the US too play not so foreign at all so what's the skin preliminary results are expected to start coming in later tonight historic so far Trudeau's lowered poverty levels across the country and the economy's been doing well he ran on that legacy and try to avoid digs from his opponents about scandals me ahead of the next presidential election so when it comes to elections in the US and Canada the voting processes may be different and the scandals may be different but the issues early Canadians almost always gave their prime minister a second term but this is being seen as one of the closest elections in Canada's history if neither party reaches the are a morning another issue worth keeping an eye on the first federal trial into the OPIOID epidemic which was supposed to start this morning until everything magic one hundred and seventy seat threshold the need to team up with smaller parties to gain a majority of neither party is able to form a majority they might have to call new elections changed. We'll tell you why after the break a car is a big purchase but it doesn't have to be a stressful one at we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves but basically anything can happen so we'll be keeping our eyes on this one expect any news regarding results in your daily Skim federal trial concerning the role of drug companies in the OPIOID epidemic but early this morning just before opening statements were scheduled to begin four of the companies involved announced full-week to decide whether the car is right

Andrew Scheer Trudeau US Conservative Party Liberal Party Canada Prime Minister Barack Obama President Brown thirty five percent twenty five years fifteen years sixty percent six weeks
The battle for green voters begins

Front Burner

21:05 min | 1 year ago

The battle for green voters begins

"This is a C._B._C.. PODCAST in the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing she had a very <hes> very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable and you'd see you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find were her thirty cats shot dead. I always knew something that happened to her D- vanish like that uncover the Cat lady case from C._B._C.. podcasts is available now hi. I'm Michelle Shepherd in for Jamie Whistle. The Canadian election is three months away and the fight for the green vote is on last month. We shared our plan to fight climate change while also creating reading three hundred thousand new good clean jobs that Jagmeet Singh preaching the N._D._p.'s platform of green new deal but what about the Green party well their popularity is searching their winning seats and provincial elections and now they've caught up to the M._v._p.. In the polls some light think its mission impossible to do what's required but we we have crunch the numbers its mission possible. We can do it so here. We have two parties fighting for the same green turf in the next election. Asian is their room for them. Both maybe they should think about cooperating or are mergers in the mix offi Arash has been talking to voters in B._C.. This week for the Huffington post voters there are trying to figure out who to support in this crowded field this this is front burner. Thanks so much for joining us this morning via. Thank you for having me. Let's start with where you are right now in B._C.. And you're with the candidates and you're talking to voters. What are you hearing from them? There is a great deal of disenchantment with the Liberal government whether you're speaking to people on the right of the political spectrum or people on the left the political spectrum a lot of people in two thousand fifteen. I think it's fair to say lent the Liberal Party their vote. They really wanted to get rid of Stephen Harper Liberal majority government who thought it'd be saying that just two months ago conservatives you look at that thirty two percent nationally nationally <hes> they really drop back in Atlanta candidate but on the left side of the political spectrum that you have voters who would describe themselves I think as progressives who believed in the Liberal Party's message they were interested in the Liberal Party Hardy's centre-left platform lot of new Democrats lent the Liberals or vote twenty fifteen election will be the last using I passed the post the environment and the economy they go together like paddles and canoes sunny ways my my friends so those people though now are looking at the Liberals record and they are either really unhappy about electoral reform or on climate and climate is really big issue. They feel a liberal government has let them down. The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion attention is a vital strategic interest to Canada. It will be built if you believe and the I._P._C. Report. This is the U._N.. report that came out last fall that says that we basically only have twelve years to you avoid catastrophic climate change then you probably are trying to square a carbon tax with buying a pipeline and a lot of those voters and EP and potential Greens are saying we don't WanNa vote liberal again. I'm intrigued intrigue that a lot of this seems to have benefit the Green Party obviously the one that's been most advocating for environmental reforms and if feels like there's this rise that they've been across the country that they've been winning provincial seats. Can you give us a bit of a recap of where they're at and what you think they've accomplished capitalizing on this this movement right now and somebody's I guess you could argue that. What we're seeing now is kind of the orange wave that seemed to be building in the lead up to the two thousand fifteen election in the sense that Rachel not least government in Alberta had been elected? Change has finally come to Alberta the M._v._p.. Federally were ecstatic and it seems like the option for change. The Anti Harper option was <hes> galvanizing around the M._v._p.. Of course we know that's not what happened the M._V._p.. There well under twenty percent. They're back to where they used to be free twenty eleven days that the green seemed to have momentum on their side. They've elected Greens in many parts of the country of course N._B._C.. Here they hold the balance of power there no coalition government with John Horgan's and EP government for Green Party announced it would back new Democrats in the legislature paving the way for an end. To sixteen years of liberal rule most recently were the official opposition in Prince Edward Island. There are Greens in New Brunswick Caucus Rena Malaise. We will do what he will be shaking things up and the Greens elected an M._p._p.. In Wealth in Ontario I'm ready to take my sita Queens Park so there seems to be across the country. Provincially the Greens are making inroads that was going to say. Do you think that'll carry over federally though well what it does help the party with Federal Party is is hoping that they can benefit from is focused areas of strength so there are opportunities for the Greens perhaps more than ever before and we see not in polling that they're doing much better than they ever have frankly the raising more money than they ever have but I wanted to add like an asterix while we're staying all these wonderful things about the Greens the end ep when they were basically at the same fundraising level and at the same area of polling we were saying that the end ep was on its deathbed and boy was that ever troubled for the end ep so take that with the grain of salt right like they're doing a lot better than they ever have but there is no majority green in government in the polls year right right. How close are the two parties? The Greens are obviously up in the polls the end EP or down but are they running neck and neck. I mean what's the real competition there well. It depends which pool you look at Michelle so just earlier this week then Nana's <hes> Nanos research poll had the M._v._p.. At nineteen percent and the Greens at eight whereas the Angus Reid had the M._v._p.. At Fourteen and the Greens at ten I mean basically what we're looking at our trend lines. The Greens means our polling far above weather normal goodyear seven eight percent there have been in the double digits which is kind of unheard of and the end EP has been I in some polls as low as single digits they they are close and they're fighting voters who are tend to be quite similar so it's fair to see that there's some cannibalizing going on here and what is happening with the M._v._p.. The same indicators that suggests that the Greens are doing well suggests that the doing badly I mean that's going to the bad media. New Democrats are really frustrated with journalists who are suggesting that losing seats six months out that has to worry you leave. It's hard not at all I mean there's things that we can learn from by-elections but the only election they count and this is the general election but you know like the end ep in the last quarter of two thousand fifteen when the ramp up through spending they pulled in close to two million dollars one point nine seven million I think it was the Greens pulled in one point five million and then we wrote about how like Oh this was like a breakthrough for the Greens because they'd never raises money whereas whereas like the N._d._p.'s in trouble we don't actually have clear sense of what their financial picture is because they have not given their annual report two thousand eighteen to elections candidate. They were granted an extension but what the party is told me is that they a are still generally spending more money than they're bringing in when the report will be released it will show that they are a little two point six million dollars in debt. They still owe that money from the two thousand fifteen campaign they've had to remortgage well mortgage actually the building basically unions gave them money before we change the election rules in two thousand four and they purchased this building downtown which they've had to put up as collateral to get alone for this next election campaign things are not going well. They're not <hes> engaging in fundraising at the same level as other political parties the end EP spin on that is that over different that being said you know when the only fundraiser you've had a typical ticketed fundraiser has been for twenty five dollars whereas Justin Trudeau and Andrew Sheer your are doing sixteen hundred dollar fundraisers in an election year. You probably do want to raise as much money as you possibly can and I know we went to before coming on. We went to their website to see when the next fundraising event was the M._v._p.. And it just simply says there are no fundraising events planned <hes> beyond what they say that they're not about this. They don't want to do it that way. There has to be more behind that as to why there's no effort for fundraising. What did you find out well? I mean the party does not want to say how any fundraising events of the leader has taken pardons. He became leader on October first two thousand seventeen. There isn't that much data that one can look at to see how much money they're actually pulling in but they're not raising that much money. They say that what happens some DP events is they will ask people for donations. When you have like a group meeting or whatnot like I was at spen- Robinson who's the former M._p.? Now candidate in burnaby north see more of his campaign launch and they did like can open call like who can give us a thousand dollars Mook and give us eight hundred dollars and while they were a few hands but you know when they got two hundred dollars quite a few hands right so fundraising is done in different ways but the overall health of. The Party and the real really the fact that they had to put the building up as collateral and that they're still paying off their two thousand fifteen campaign debt the there were rumors running around Ottawa that then ep wasn't even going to have a regular leaders campaign that there weren't GonNa Charter harder clean and the party was really quick to put those rumors duress no no he will have an official campaign but those things are really expensive and that's one of the reasons why they need to go to the bank and say hey we need some more money <hes> and then you have you know the fact that according to the caucus at least a quarter of the caucus not running again so there is a lack of incumbency advantage and you have a leader that frankly is really unpopular. You know it's really not <hes> things are not going well for the end ep well in fact Thomas Mulcair the previous sweeter of the M._v._p.. Set on T._V.. That he thinks progressive voters may abandon his party for the Greens. Mr Sing has now decided he's going to support a liquefied natural gas pipeline so people who believe that environmental issues should be top of mine are worried about what type of society in world. We're GONNA leave to our children grandchildren. They're kind of start paying attention to Elizabeth as Green Party. Thomas Mulcair. I think has an extra at the moment with the he's a little bit ep well. Yeah I mean no political leader ever in Canadian history was beheaded the way politically that he was with getting forty eight percent of support fifty two percent plus have said they WANNA leadership convention. Go tell you that there were times kind of felt like public hanging from the election. Obviously is something that we're now going to be able to leave behind us with a change at the helm and that's fine. I think a lot of people in the end EP are actually having buyer's remorse like they were really upset that the end ep ran campaign that was seen as being to the right of the liberals the last election and so I think Mr Mulcair well sometimes you make is really great points a does you know have a little bit of an agenda and I think we need to look at that from that angle that being said I think it is possible if voters droves who are unhappy with the end EP leader and just tired or don't see a reason to vote and EP in the writings they may go green. I think the Greens also have <hes> they're not just seen as an option for new Democrats but you know I met a bunch of conservative voters is who told me that they think they're gonNa vote green this time that they voted liberal in two thousand fifteen just because they want to get rid of Harper. They're more to the rights but hey why not give Elizabeth may chance <music> so as a strategy if the M._v._p.. Is recognizing that Jagmeet Singh is not there. Most popular leader is part of their strategy to go after the Green Party in a way that we are watching this rise of the Green Party and perhaps the M._v._p.. Is Looking at it as pulling votes away from them. <hes> I think it was Shawntel Baron Toronto Star she wrote that it was the rise of the Green Party that she sees as a mortal threat to the and DP. I think you can clearly see that the M._v._p.. Is struggling not to be in contention for government is it wasn't the last election but to hold on enough seats to retain official party status in the House of Commons and knocked led the Greens become the so-called green conscience of the house of comments. Do you think that's fair. Absolutely I think especially like I've been N._B._C.. For about two weeks now and you can sense it just speaking to the candidates how oh they fear that the threat to them comes from the green. There is a lot of overlap between the two political parties if you think the I._p._C._C. report is like a call for change that really need to take bold action when you look at both parties. These platforms are actually quite similar. They boats ingest federal government action that would try to get us to one point five degree Celsius warming rather than the trajectory that we're on at the moment with big bull change all experts have made it clear the future energy source for our planet cannot be fossil fuels that has to be renewable energy start with the essential step of making sure that all the electricity we use comes from renewable energy. You know the Greens platform is far more detailed than the M._v._p.. Platform but the N._D._P.'s message at the doors is while we need to do big bold action but we also can't forget workers which obviously resonates with a lot of new Democrat voters but there is definitely a sense of the two parties or kind of cannibalizing each other. I'd say the end EP has become far more progressive and attacking the Greens not just in what the candidates are saying but also in terms of their social media presence like you've had a couple of and EP M._p.'s take it go. I'd Elizabeth May for when she talked about Canada being energy independence as we move off fossil fuels we should only be using Canadian fossil fuels till twenty fifty. The Democrats are suggesting that Oh that means building a new pipeline to eastern candidate which obviously is very unpopular popular in Quebec and that the Green Party leader in Quebec came out and said Hey. I don't support this. I think it's very important for Greens. All across candidates take a clear position against the Alberta Tar Sands. It's an oil that <hes> that comes out of there that is much more rehouse. Host gas emission intensive than conventional oil has since changed what she's saying on that to say no. We don't need to use Alberta oil. We can use Newfoundland's oil firm Hibernia to make us energy dependent out east but there's it's definitely a sense of the two parties are more aggressive towards each other especially from the end ep be more aggressive with regards to the Greens and the N.. P. Not only has to like watch. It's like left flank to make sure that the Greens are not coming up certain writings but also across the country where it's possible voters decide that they're going to give something else to try but is there room for both of these parties you know you see in various op-eds and calmness have been talking about even having a merger between the two who or candidates run strategically but in practice. That's really not what we're seeing. It's they're digging in and going after each other. Where do you think that's GonNa go well? It could go to help elect conservative government which is what the conservative certainly are hoping for like. Why would why doesn't seem like a discussion? That's being had between nodes or not. I mean at the moment it's probably too early to have discussion on the left about merging these tea parties the partisans seasons in the M._v._p.. And the GREENSVILLE argue they are very very different. New Democrats will say that the Greens are not socially progressive enough that they're actually rather conservative. They'll point Elizabeth may working with Brian Mulroney in the eighties. What Mr Mulroney accomplished push for us was huge Elizabeth? <hes> is a Christian earlier comments on abortion or L._G._B._T.. That she's not l._G._B._T._Q.. Friendly enough out I when you have demonstrated that they are that that they are committed to women's rights now ubt rights so women must have access to legal say abortions whenever a woman needs one but those author basically the areas of of attack from the EP the Greens thing that the N._d._p.'s not going far enough and that they're the only party that really has a plan to eliminate fossil fuels completely that their targets are much bolder that they we have detailed plan that is feasible. I mean that they will work in part of the Green. Ethos is that they will work with other political parties like the new Democrats Elizabeth may talks about building a war cabinet address climate change bring and members of all political parties to it kind of focus attention on this one crisis that that she believes the country needs to be obsessed with to the point where are single mission is to make sure that in her words humanity survives and the Greens have a plan to get us there so can they merge the moment. No I mean even when you raise that with new Democrat candidates and green candidates that they think the public will elect them. Everybody thinks that they're going to win right that the public will elect them and then they we'll be able to influence the debate. Maybe it's not a majority government. Maybe he's not even a government but maybe it's the balance of power. Maybe they can change the way that what the Liberals Common Policies are. I mean at the end of the day there to parties who on this issue really resemble each other mm-hmm and this is an unfair question because I know it so difficult to predict but with three months to go. Do you see any big game changer any dramatic shocker. That's GONNA come and really change the terrain. Oh I have no idea three months before the two thousand fifteen election you know who had heard of like Alan Kirti who had heard of who sought that the kneecap cab decision was gonNA send the campaign kind of Anna Tailwind in in Quebec. We don't know what's going to happen. Maybe Jagmeet Singh is like a total rockstar and he knocks it out of the part and the debate and people take a second look. Maybe Elizabeth may lands of really vicious attack against the Prime Minister and people you know give new consideration devoting liberals and maybe maybe this is the year to give it to the Greens. Maybe enter sheer surprises. Everybody incomes that with a much stronger climate plan and has all these probably not but you know like you. You never know what's going to happen. We could be talking about a completely different issue in three months. Well thank you so much. We'll continue to watch your reporting leading up to election action. Thanks Michelle was the pleasure and the Liberal Party was also talking up its environmental credit this week. They announced Stephen She bo would be running for them. In Montreal Sheba worked for Greenpeace for ten years and was an anti pipeline activists which might seem unlike a weird fit given that the liberal government bought a pipeline. She both says he thinks he can do more to fight climate change by working inside the party for me. The decision to jump into the political arena is the logical conclusion.

Greens Green party EP Party Liberal Party Jagmeet Singh N._D._P. Liberal government Elizabeth Stephen Harper official Michelle B._C Thomas Mulcair Canada Alberta Michelle Shepherd
Has Scott Morrison spent too much?; and can China rise peacefully?

Between The Lines

29:08 min | 3 weeks ago

Has Scott Morrison spent too much?; and can China rise peacefully?

"This is an ABC podcast. Get there and welcome to between the lines. This is Tom Switzer and it's great to heavy company. Now, today on the show we all too often he that China's President Xi Jinping wants to overturn international status quo having emerged from two centuries of economic and military weakness to finally master fisted technologies. A more authoritarian China is growing rapidly and converting its economic might into strategic clout. So how should the US and it's Liberal Democratic allies meet China's challenge stay with this segment on China and the rules based order. But first liberals and the upcoming federal budget. Well. Forgive me. If you've already heard me mention this but one of my favorite quotes during the covid crosses a pdf the guardian. This is the British lift wing newspaper. Now, this was the heart of the coronavirus crisis. It would have been light much quote just as there are no atheists on a sinking ship, there are no free marketeers during a pandemic. Now, the author of that apt quote Jonathan Freedland, he was referring to the audio logical revolution within the British conservative. Party. Now, according to Freedland Boris Johnson's his have defied four decades of thatcherism small-state free-market, thinking I to spend staggering amounts of money and then subsidizing the wages of workers. Could the same thing be said about Australia's Liberal Party they're the party of Howard and Costello now embraces big-spending high deficit government interventionism. And is a permanent state of affairs poor kilis editor at large of the Australian US pipe and Judas Brit is emeritus professor of politics at Latrobe University poll judy welcome back to the show. Hristo Paul, you've written to calms about this subject in the past week, summarize your faces. Will Martha is that all parties and all governments have to respond to the times in which they find themselves on display in Australia. Now we face an extraordinary economic crisis and the response reveals the nature of Scott Morrison, his prime minister and the Mars and government. So Morrison, not responding as Liberal Party progressive or is it Liberal Party conservative? He doesn't see himself in those terms his responses pragmatic selects able and practical. He's not inhibited by former policy and audio logical icons of the Liberal Party. Say What we say is the government has abandoned the long-term syllabus aspirations. It's A. Big Spending government it's a government government intervention focused on Keynesian demand management. It does however on the Liberal Party tradition of tax cuts will see next week. So it's prepared to regulate or deregulate according to the situation according to what's required. So to sum up say that Morrison wants to be defined by results and outcomes not philosophical principle. Okay. You mentioned the tax cuts leaving that aside traditional liberal governments are about balancing the books Paul, how much an as do you think aries in the Liberal Party about in the parliament and outside about these handouts to preserve jobs and livelihoods? Are. I. Don't think there's much on these at all OPTIMA and Tom. and. A couple of reasons for this if there is to be on, he's He's will come through the down the track, but essentially what's happening here is to govern is following the Orthodoxy or what you might call the new Orthodoxy in terms of meeting the financial and economic crisis. So roller response is sort of radical. It's also conventional. The official family is working together very closely. The Treasury the Reserve Bank, what the government is doing is essentially supported by private-sector economists. It's in law and with Patrick amended by the VCD and the IMF not the cabinet is very nodded, the Prime Minister and the treasurer are working very closely together so far the results look good. I think the Overwhelming sentiment on the back benches. Support, the government strategy in the hope that this gives individual employees, the chance of actually being reelected and my will give the government the chance of being reelected. So the reinvention of Australian liberalism is on full display with this budget judith break you agree with Paul Kelly about the the audio logical significance of these changes but actually think the government had much choice in that sense I do think we can see something audio logical preferences in a couple of the policies poor mentioned the tax cuts they've chosen tax cuts over for example, committing to a permanent increase in new act now co Job Seca. They've also, for example, if we look at the way, they wanted to stimulate the housing market. They've gone for giving money to individual owners rather than, for example, embarking on a social housing project. So I think in some of the means, we can still see some of the ideological preferences of the Patty. One of the things I've wondered when I've been watching the events unfold. If Labor had won the last election was in government with the Liberals have supported the same levels of spending or would they have if you like stayed in the sort of ideological bunker bean and attacked the blow out of the deficit? I mean, it's a hypothetical. In some ways I think we've been very lucky that it's been the liberals and the coalition in government because they can sense being able to Ghana much more support. I, think than I have been able to do for the same levels of spending but isn't cameras response to the COVID crosses more consistent with other Western governments during the pandemic Judy. Yes that's what I think. I had much option but the question is if the coalition of being opposition, would they have supported a Labor government going? You've written a lot about this have many many decades about when orthodoxies or overturned. It's usually bipartisan is that you'll since if the coalition cypher argument's sake wherein opposition I would have gone along with this big spending interventionism. Look are essentially agree with what Judy's said about this I think in a sense we're. Fortunate, if you liked that the coalition's in government because it's taken all the big spending decisions. and. Lay has been prepared to go along with back. In fact, it's argued that there should be even more spending. So in that sense, we've had a broad degree of thought-out ship within the economic framework. It is hot the typical of course to tron speculate about what would have happened if alive had been in office doing this but I do think that the coalition in opposition would have been tempted to make caught a lot of criticisms and to suggest that the spending had gone too far. There's a big difference for party thing in government managing across and being an opposition. Cape with this theme of a political realignment among center right parties around the Western world. If you think about Donald Trump in two thousand sixteen, he tapped into widespread anxieties. America's rust belt. What can class constituencies? Boris Johnson showed last December, he resonated with traditional British Library voters in the Midlands and northern England. Judy. Do you think that Morrison in a wise doing the same thing here in Australia? Now, I think they're very different sorts of crises. I mean the pandemic is an external. Crisis, it's not being caused by politics in any way it's not back nationalism versus globalism or any of those things, and so I don't agree with that. I agree with what Paul was saying earlier that Morrison's shown himself to be pragmatic and quick footed in this and I think we're lucky for that. But I I don't think that this lines up with bricks and with trump's appeal to the rest spilled poor Kelly. Well I think conservatism is changing if you look at. America Britain Australia and there's not a dopey getting very significant changes into servitude. Thought. Different changes argued very strongly that there are very substantial differences between Donald Trump and Scott Morrison. I think people who argue that. Morrison is a pilot version of DONALD TRUMP MAUREEN DOWD in the New York Times by the way, but go on. I think. I think turned him mentally misunderstand the situation I. Think the change in conservatism is very dramatic in the United States. If you'd like because we've got the transition from Ronald, Reagan who a generation ago was the great conservative champion, and now we have Donald Trump, who if you lock is a populist conservative? And that transformation is simply enormous install ending content I mean trump violates all the virtues of conservatism in terms of restraint prudence disciplined respect. Regard for the political system, he thrives on division. So he likes all the traditional conservative norms, and then when looks at his policies. Well he's sabotage the global trading system. He's an arch protectionist. He's engaged in this trade war with China he's appraised dictators and suspicious about. So I guess one of the Fundamental Christians here is the extent to which trump is an aberration. And the extent to which post trump American concert is we'll have to try and create a new position cognisant of the damage that trump has done to the traditional Republican Party I. Guess Paul Kelly author of several books including the end of certainty and the march of Patriots Judith Brit, his author of Australia's liberals and the moral middle class and Robert Menzies Forgotten. People. Judy when thinking about the coming budget and how that fits into the history of Liberal Party audiology how do you account for cameras attitudes towards the universities and the arts I mean does it represent a betrayal of Cy Robert Menzies? It's certainly very different from the physician that Robert Menzies took but at think it's because of the nature of the middle class has changed. Mentioning my book. Straightened liberals in the moral middle class in menzies time education was much less widely distributed and they were in a way more united behind certainly support for the arts and Menzies. Innocence. Expanded the university system. What's happened to the universities in a strategy? I think is puzzling in some ways it's been pat because by the government pulling money out of the sector as student fees increased the government supporters decrease it's also have been caused by choices the universities themselves have made tally in response to external pressure, but not only there. But, I think that Australians at lodge should be really alarmed about what's happening to me. It's the quality of teaching which has been declining over couple of decades in terms of the resources that universities have prepared to put into the teaching, and it can be seen in the schedule as Asian of the teaching staff which has many of them. You know they worked very had their highly skilled people, but they not paid to give the. Sort of support to students that I got as an undergraduate. Any I retired from teaching around two thousand twelve and even then teaching staff what we had more time to give to supporting students. So class sizes have increased subject choices decrease in I think taxpayers should be really concerned about the quality of the education that their children and grandchildren getting universities now okay. Farley the post budget economic recovery. We've got several economists I believe the best. Way Out of this crisis is via a new productivity enhancing reform agenda that improves incentives to work strengthens long-term growth living standards. This is the treasurer at Josh Freudenberg with ABC's David speeds this was just a few months ago. He did say when it comes to economic reform the other day that you'll be taking inspiration from Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan really well, they dealt very successfully with the challenges that they faced particularly stagflation unemployment high. Inflation. But if you if you look at Margaret, Thatcher alive is winter of discontent she came in she reduced the number of days lost to industrial disputation from Damian down to mean she cut Texas and when it comes to to Ronald Reagan, he's talk about two economists having three opinions. But what he did say is that cutting taxes cutting red type, He created twenty million new jobs. I. Say he was very success, right? Reaganomics. Boosted growth and sometimes down. Trawler. Thatcher Reagan. Figures of height for the lift because that was so successful one got tombs, which was the maximum you can get in the United States Magara Thatcher go to live in the half year is seven officers. Will. You take inspiration from lots of different sources. I also taken from Howard and Castilla, but the reality is that veteran right can cut red type they cut taxes and I delivered stronger economies that was josh. Falkenberg. David, spy's Paul Kelly the treasure. This sounds a lot like a true believer in free market reforms. I. Think that interview is a one off module belt. This is. Thatcher and Reagan a not. particularly. Good examples for. The Morrison government. And I did note in that interview, the Treasurer said that Thatcher and Reagan were not. He's guiding lights as such and then referred to how Costello and so on. I think we currently live in a very different time to fetch and Reagan. It's not surprising that the treasury defends them. Of course, he's going to defend them. But in terms of sort of productivity both supply side reform. Agenda. This is the soda. Thing. I've. Supported for many indeed. Discussing with the whole Katie tradition to bother why pool or well of course, it is however, I've also argued. That I think this sort of reform agenda is incredibly difficult to get up these days. And I'm not at all surprised that Morrison and FROLUNDA. Have focused on demand management at the moment that is. Boosting activity boosting jobs are providing a lot of government spending providing tax cuts trying to get the economy ticking a Gyn, and there is significantly in the treasurer stipends. Last week, he indicated that they would not start to look at fiscal consolidation until unemployment was comfortably below six percent. This is a very, very cautious stands to take. It means that the debate will be about economic expansion for a number of years yet certainly, beyond the next election I think the government would lock to engage in supply side reforms but I believe it will be very cautious and selective about the supply side reforms does identify. Last week the treasurer identified to in relation to insolvencies and expansion of credit and I think there's a logic to both the US and I think the government. Can make a political case for both ause beyond that are still believe that the task of productivity enhancing supply side reforms is extremely difficult in political terms, but Hogan catering used the mid nineties. Currency crosses balance of payments crosses to justify around of productivity enhancing supplies, odd reform I Judy Ken Morrison, and Freudenberg use this crosses to kick start a new era of productivity enhancing supply side reform. Well, the thing about what who can Katie was something that did that in partnership with the union movement that was still employing a large number of employees was still in and we have a quite different economy. Now, as we know this a lot fewer people in unions of a lot more salt tried a. Small business people we've got the challenge of the GIG economy, which is locking people into insecure headwork. So it's pretty different. I think an only ideological barriers are just reading today in the age about the problems with getting agriculture workers and I'm thinking we've got all these asylum-seekers who are not allowed to work living in the community. Many of them will have come from rural backgrounds will probably be quite happy to go out and pick cabbages. You know they still some big blocks in terms of the pragmatism that Morrison government is shelling in relationship to the problems that the economy's facing Judy Paul to be continued. Thanks so much for being on our end. Thanks for having me tone dog autumn. Judith bread is emeritus professor of politics at Latrobe University and Paul Kelly is editor at large of the Australian newspaper. This is between the lines with Tom Swift. Making sense of Australia's place in the world, we'll know subject is dominated this programs agenda more than the economic and geopolitical rise of China. Now, it's obviously an issue of particular importance for Australia after all China's is just tried Patna. But the question here is Kanchana rise peacefully does Beijing. Have a stake in what turned the rules-based international order, which after all has provided the stability necessary for China's rise orders China have an interest in overturning an order that he did not create. With Lowy Institute Australia's leading foreign policy. Think tank just published a collection of us on this subject and two of the contributors join us. Now John Cova is a former senior US intelligence officer with thirty five years experience as a leading. CRI analysts of East Asia is and Ben. Scott is director of Australia security and the rules based order project at the low institute John Been Working to RN thanksgiving Tom Hanks Tom it's great to be with you. Now Ben, you have written that the key components of the rules based order There obviously established by the US as the dominant power in the post. World War Two era does a rising China still have a stake in order. Thanks Tom well as the contributions this debate show the answer is B. Complicated I mean China wants to keep some parts of DC news team order it certainly likes having a permanency to Urine Security Council for example on the hand it wants to get rid of some pots especially all that stuff about universal individual human rights and between those two extremes what we say in the debate is that wants to take over. Repurpose or even modify large parts of that order. So one of my takeaways from the project is that the sort of hard nosed real of the Chinese Communist Party actually have a very healthy appreciation for the power of a rules based order under international norms particular. Yeah. But it's been about two decades since China into the WTO the World Trade Organization and the widespread hope at the time was the China would gradually become a responsible stakeholder and you clearly China has become more authoritarian at home more city abroad John in allowing contribution you say that over the past decade, many aspects of China's behavior have been horned jaundice this mean that China Conroy's peacefully. Well taking the question literally I'd say it's still possible training could rise peacefully but that will take hard work on all sides and some of the Chinese leaders or We have to see some evidence that Chinese leaders are capable of coming what I like to call increasingly narcissistic nationalism. This is not a confident regime and I'd wager that Xi Jinping and spending his nights happily envisioning glorious rejuvenated China hint estimates for the mid. Century. He has far too many other problems on his mind most of them domestic, but we don't need to reprise the cold. War To stop China's plan for global domination because it probably doesn't have one. It has a narrative that addresses domestic grievances over the so-called hundred and fifty years of humiliation and including the inevitable reunification of Taiwan is they like to put it and the Communist Party needs. To demonstrate that it can return China to its rightful place as primitive power in Asia and a great power globally, and so you know what? I've been seeing it I. Think this came through in some aspects of the debate is this is going to require efforts by the United States Australia and the other Western democracies to meet China's China's challenge especially over the values norms the international order. This will not be a repeat of the Cold War but a competition that requires us to confront things like the current pandemic, as well as the societal economic insecurity challenges posed by change and the fourth industrial revolution. China's conduct is related to the leadership of Shea Jingping. Do you think China's conduct is driven more by say, Marxism Leninism, the John mentioned that audiology or is driven more by nationalism Tom. This is something a lot of debate about in in our feature. The end of the day I think I'm persuaded by the arguments that ideology plays a major role, probably a greater role and we would have assumed say ten years ago in looking at the say cd pay but it's still the case that the Chinese Communist Party's first priority is its own survival that's very tied up with ideology because legitimacy link to ideology that he's also make as much use of nationalism as Ken. On the question of changing things personally I I also persuaded by the that does make a big difference but there's a lot of this have to do with structural factors and not internal factors I think historical precedents when you look at America's rise in the nineteenth century, it keep the European powers of the region in order to secure a sphere of influence in Latin America John Is Chana likely to follow in the US footsteps in the sense that it will kick out the Americans in order to impose its own sphere of influence John Call the. Not to be glad but the Communist Party seems to assess it doesn't need to kick the US out of Asia because thanks that the US will depart to regions as the region's affinity for the US declines assuming that China demonstrates deliver regional goods such as infrastructure, economic growth, security instability, and as far as long as these offset the costs of complying with China's goals and demands. My guest John Calva he's a former veteran, CIA analyst of East Asian Affairs and Ben Scott. He's director of the Lowe Institutes. Rules based order project. Now, it's pain four years more than four years now since The Hague International Tribunal ruled against China. This was about its conduct in the South China Sea they said it was illegal yet the US in its allies have filed changed badging behavior. Ben Scott doesn't this suggest the very limits of the so-called rules liberal. International Order. the short answer is, yes, it does. But I would say that the fact that states are able to nor international law as China has in the South China. Sea doesn't mean that the international law has no fixed often a price to pay in terms of legitimacy which I think China has tied in paying and then on the South China Sea in particular I'd say that although China's made a lot of progress I, don't think that all's lost it's still possible that climate sites can come together to cooperate more can work more with other interested powers. Australia's one of them United States Japan Europe pushback a bit more. If. If indeed, Beijing continues to disregard global norms and rules most notably in the South China Sea John What, what can the US and its allies do I. I think of are serious case of China violating norms roles. It's brutal crackdown of its Muslim community especially the warriors but really. An internal issue though what kind of leverage does America in the wrist have? With respect to an internal matter. Well I think reputation and so far. It is disconcerting that despite efforts by the international community led by specially Australia in the United States Muslim majority states have been quiet but it doesn't mean you stop is they're conducting cultural genocide and they were a little cost it means we need to continue to drive that conversation on the South China Sea I really agree with Ben that all is not lost that they largely stopped the aggressive posture we saw without retreating, but they haven't advanced with more land reclamation and impart because to be blunt. The. Failure of the Philippines to assert their case after the tribunal decision in two thousand, sixteen allow China to kind of coast and focus on a code of conduct negotiations. But I think that if we align ourselves, mean the broader world with really stand up in promoting common goals on trade security freedom of navigation that we can presentable united front and try to slow China's role final question to you, John Calvin. If she were replaced in coming years. Would Washington seed as a sign of hope? Or a vulnerability to exploit. I think it depends a bit on which Americans. So it's important to note that Xi Jinping did not exactly knife fight his way to the top of the Communist Party. He didn't execute a coup d'etat. He was selected by the Polar Bureau Standing Committee and powerful elders like John's amid some Changhong backed by a strong consensus of the Central Committee. There was a collective sense that China in the party needed stronger and more decisive. Leadership. So in the event that say she were to pass from the scene tomorrow, a lot would depend on what the Communist Party did next and how the US viewed it. There's no successor waiting in the wings. She's made sure of that, and if she who was a princeling the son of a prominent revolutionary elder was a consensus answer of for mounting contradictions of collective leadership, the Communist Party would have to decide if today. In his absence whether his policies and actions needed to be reassessed for example, with the Communist. Party conclude that he mismanaged China's most important relationship that the United States or will they conclude that no leader would have succeeded with the advent of us. President Donald Trump. So, I could foresee the Communist Party's leadership conclude that she's problems were the problem that the US has a jealous hegemonic and it has more aggressive efforts to blunt China's rise. John Ben thanks so much for being on our today. Thank you very much Tom Pleasure Tom John Cova is a former senior US intelligence officer with thirty five years of experience leading CI analysts of East Asian Affairs, and he was with Ben Scott Director of Australia's security and the rules by stored project at the Lowy Institute, and for more on the project visit the lowy homepage and low institute DOT Org. Well, that's it. For this weekend. Remember if you'd like to download past episodes of the program including earliest segment on the Liberals Ideological Odyssey that was with Paul Kelly and Judith Brit just go to ABC dot net dot edu slash Iran and follow the prompts to between the lines or of course you can download the podcast via the ABC listen. I'm Tom Switzer from radio national hype you continue to between the lines week. You've been listening to an ABC podcast discover more great. ABC podcasts live radio and exclusives on the ABC listen APP.

China United States government Australia Scott Morrison Liberal Party Paul Kelly Judy Ken Morrison Donald Trump Hristo Paul treasurer America Chinese Communist Party Tom John Cova Tom Switzer South China Sea Ronald Reagan Ben Scott Freedland Boris Johnson Morrison government
Highlights from Monocle 24

Monocle 24: Midori House

24:00 min | 1 year ago

Highlights from Monocle 24

"The you're listening to Monaco's house view first broadcast on the twenty first of October two thousand nine hundred on monocle twenty four on a third of the vote in terms of voter intentions now I think if you're looking at what is needed to host majority Tapie Monaco's house view starts now welcome to the program Canadians important to remember however that four years ago when Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party won a landslide victory across the country the opinion polls went predicting that either looking at the opinion polls they have consistently shown that the three or four major parties of being pretty deadlocked throughout the campaign the latest opinion dental of Indonesia Jacoby is expected to prioritize education and foreign investment during his final tump starting with some added youth in his cabinet on on each of the parties have tried to conduct really rather positive campaign speaking broadly I'd say but I think when you hear lots of events like town opinion polls open across the country today but I think for electric that we're told that is fairly sort of in low mood over this year's votes at that actually context saying that they feel a little bit browbeaten by the choices on offer now I think that's quite interesting when you couple it with looking at what happened during early in Canada have been slipping fairly consistently for at least the past year I would say I think if you look at the tone of the campaign as Paul's over this final past weekend of campaigning showed no difference in that no single party at the moment has more voting which took place last week that has broken records more Canadians than ever before turned out to vote early during several days last week I think about four point seven million voters cast their ballots then it's difficult to say whether that will translate into record tonight's a very high turnouts as degrees of this Mike Steven deal and John Everard are here to discuss Donald Trump's latest twitter gaffe and US threats to pull our the administration in Ottawa unique about thirty five I think with thirty eight percents of the vote to do that so it really does feel as though it could go either way it is a second term in office plus trump has for a long time produce disgraced dream of tweets with curious spelling mistakes fat necrosis and so on but adding to the polls today to decide where Prime Minister Justin Trudeau gets a second term in office I'm joined on the line by Monaco's Toronto Bureau Chief Thomas Lewis so as I mentioned I think that might be surprises to come a little later today let's talk about the first pass to the Post Voting System Trudeau promise something that has rankled a lot of Canadian voters he made the promise four years ago and I think he made it not actually may be thinking that Arcus I think as you say just in Trudeau's political honeymoon was pretty remarkable that has asked for some time now and his approval ratings here in offer three two cents to keep the peace between Moscow and Washington and we hear Water Joko Widodo has planned for his second term in office as breast who turn out might say that there is some surprises along the way as votes counted later tonight exciting how difficult will it be to predict this result while it's incredibly difficult if you're which I think if you look at the opinion polls is unlikely but if she wins that she would implement a different voting system proportional one of it so we will have still the first-past-the-post-system Elizabeth may at the Green party she has vowed that if she wins unwholesome things that brewer causes the have conducted over the past few weeks you do hear this sentiment from various voters in those Gerias that when I've spoken to voters throughout the cost of the past four years I guess that this failure to overhaul the voting system is really weather actually people feel so sort of disenfranchised by you know various elements of Justin Trudeau's track record over the past four years whether they do it's read of it in the last election but it still in place for today's ballots how could that affect the balance of power well I think that's one of the for for decades here in Canada that was really sort of a landmark moment for them we've seen lots of interesting proposals on various things and he would win an right majority overhauling any voting system is a hugely complicated task both in terms of the politics but also in terms of the logistics laws implemented for example to stave off the decline of the print media in various times in cities across the countries to he has also have come into place since he was elected back in Twenty fifteen and I think you know that's been sort of compounded by the scandal I suppose that Justin Trudeau and his government will be hoping that there is a little bit of strategy going on in during election day today but we'll have to wait and see have managed to break through this sense that perhaps despite being voted on a big platform of change last time around that many voters felt that by the end of his first serve of mistrust has really clouded lots of those achievements for many voters given how how many how many changes the government has been harshly criticized in many quarters for quite a controversial new pipeline project that has been very controversial issues Foale Trudeau promising well the environment has been a huge issue across all of the major parties here just intrigued as liberal it's almost a wash is the public mood like now Trudeau had two long honeymoon period -SSIPI has been increasingly criticized well it's an interesting question those big assertions on housing affordability on creating jobs for younger voters if he is elected to a second term if those promises leader in terms of the economics of green technology many of his opponents say well how can you promise those kinds of things and also walk huge shifts in policy here and into the law here in Canada too I suppose one of the big flagship issues the legalization he promised for years ago he managed to keep his other election promises he's actually kept a remarkable number of his election promises and many of them are then by a company that will build one of the most enormous sort of gas and oil infrastructure projects going on in North America when works work starts on it I think affordability has been a big issue particularly for voters in the big cities that something that again we feel as though you're on the left of the spectrum you may then tend to vote strategically so even if in your heart of hearts you'd like to vote for the new Democrats which is the which lots of Trudeau's opponents seemed to claim will be fairway voting a national government I think what the first part of the postseason does is spectrum or to try maintain the middle ground and I think that's made lots of lots of voters pretty suspicious as well so I think in terms of the economy has done pretty well under Justin Trudeau also that the picture is being a little bit mixed over the past few months but I think what's interesting is for him is I think this shapeless have conducted themselves They are having their own sort of splits if you like in terms of whether to move to a more populist wing of the political there you are listening to Monaco Salsa few we'll be hearing from our panelists Stephen De l. and June everard in just a moment but first here are some of the other stories follow their hearts in some way and vote for party they haven't voted for before let's let's talk about the truck record a bit more as you mentioned through failed to overall the voting system that is something some time now that's in western Canada and I think we will hear more about that a little later he was elected on a platform promising that Canada would become a word regulations this follows the introduction of national security laws which journalists say impede their ability to carry out their jobs the government has said it does back the US seeping into Canada too so I think there will be lots of themes that play when voters make their decision a little later today Monaco's Toronto Bureau Chief Thomas Lewis and all the party leaders have face lots of tough questions on I think actually very broadly an idea of trust I think if you look at how the Conservative Party press freedom but said quote no one is above the lawn and finally German media reports the country's Economy Minister Peter Altmaier is considering building a space in government has approved a package of economic reforms as it desperately attempts to quell the biggest protest in the country for a number of years the government is planning to scrap controversial tax it was kind of business as usual in terms of how politicians usually conduct themselves what kind of other election promises have you heard so far what are the most serious challenges government that they vote in next and I think when you look that to the southern neighbor here in Canada this idea of trust is shopping quite the yeah of marijuana use that was a topic of protest four activists who wanted to see the decriminalization of marijuana stinky and I think there is kind of that might play into the action today the Canadians don't want to be Don't want to have what's happening politically with the Conservatives led by former House Speaker Andrew Scheer it's thought that young voters will be crucial in determining the outcome of the election Lebanon's Cohen Reforms and to cut the salaries of officials in a bid to prevent a general strike Australia's biggest newspapers have published redacted front pages and a protest against press is launch center this follows calls from German industries to invest more space research and development for more on this story download today's edition of the briefing party on the left of the spectrum here or the Green Party say that actually feels that chances might be slim so you'd go for the Liberal Party instead over the weekend Donald Trump made a few incredible statements on twitter and made huge gaffe as well all in a single tweet the students was attempting to attribute statements on American troops in Syria to his secretary of Defense whom Donald Trump named as Mark Esperanto where our news panel for a longer look at some of the main stories we're following today which today include Saraya analyst Stephen Deal and John Everard former I've been following today thank you Marcus as we've been hearing Canadian voters are deciding whether to give Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a second term in office Mr Trudeau's Liberal Party is next thrusting one's leaders and just injured I think one the trust vote pretty pretty firmly last time Iran's whether Canadians feel that they can trust in Syria for example he claims troops are coming home when indeed sobbing moved Iraq and some we'll stay in Syria well yes that's right he's claimed that the troops are coming home is not entirely those are some of the stories we're following today now back to you Markus thanks Daniel this is Monaco's house view are Marcus Hippie I'm joined now but it just makes him look such an idiot again I guess there are many many questions that can be raised re in regards to this tweets what is trump's plan for leaving some three Brenta Anita's carried on writing you know he he's not a careful man in in many things so but I mean it's deeply insulting to the man himself for start in reality is defense chief is called Mark Esber Stephen is this a case of autocorrect one assume that possibly juice discreet stream of tweets with curious spelling mistakes nurses and so on but there's degrees of this and not as district but in general over the last several weeks is the essence see lava lands scandal a few months ago of course the black face photographs I think contributed to that so it'll be interesting to see whether tree we have seen a crescendo of almost comical factual errors and I'm seeing a lot of analysis now on American blogs suggesting the to miss spelt by your boss probably greats rather but I think there's a wider issue here I mean a as you said the beginning marcus the trump has for a long time combusted to North Korea welcome to the program we look first to the United States a country led by a man known for being forced and loose with the facts certainly we've been we've been saying for the last three years you know this is extraordinary and trump does trump says that whatever but as John says it just gets weirder weirder used yeah I I mean it's a fact of life I was going to say an unfortunate fact of life but that's totally subjective for my part but I well actually sending them to Iraq probably putting them into more likely a combat situation than where they are now he's it is yes and if I go back to Israel see what he's been saying and one or two other politicians but I it's it is actually I if we're joking apart it's it's actually very serious I mean you know this is the United States we're talking about this is the president of the mammoth finger on the nuclear baton I it's it's it's a worrying situation when United States led by someone who seems so out of control trump is in some kind of meltdown that the stresses of the impeachment process whether or not I she comes to anything a really telling on him and what crossed with reality something about we secured the oil and what does that mean what no one knows that's it and and you know yes pulling back pulling back the it depends how they express themselves doesn't it I mean knowing what will leaders thing is is a good thing it helps us to understand better if I can use a Russian example whether it was a an instagram picture sent by the Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev which Alexander and when you shouldn't be able to do that on the Russian prime minister salary exactly well let's finally turn our attention to international security enter three to four which the peace you didn't read is tweet as clerk athletes you shoulda done his phone at putting Esperanto one assumes that but of course you can never show with with donald trump maybe some kind of factor modern life you know social media particularly twitter and one or two others I mean there's a very interesting point from instagram in fact where the joke of his I mean he is just so far beyond the Pale that that that's that's the the the guest you know that the autocorrect came up with it with a statement potentially yes as long as they stick to the rules and if we go back even further indeed thirty years before it was it was it was way we follow police success changed it's not only donald trump was very active until we hear from many many other world leaders and leading politicians about their views on line do you think that's a positive thing t he may have had is nothing away Stephen Decree do I think he's very good it's a very good analysis John and things he put in that same tweet all the wells being run on what's driving these people if you follow Donald Trump's twitter stream I'm not sure that you do get great insights into into the great mind you just get Confu- dates in part of this deal allows countries do fly unarmed surveillance aircraft over one another's territory to monitor things like military activity enjoy can perhaps in part be attributed the open skies agreement dates back to nineteen ninety two and eating gluts thirty four countries including Russia and the United States get some useful information you get some use news points that come out sometimes But yeah I mean I I would never sold following trump for one thing I mean mation to either NATO allies or Ukraine Ukraine doesn't have satellites that can pick up Russian troop movements. The Americans can do that with that planes and and and so Stephen if I come to you I it's been said that even when relations between Moscow and Washington hands this treaty allows level of transparency and trust which could've been there was a yacht there even inside close zones Petersburg and and there was a photo taken from that so in fact they can actually pull the rug out from under themselves at times can expect that in Germany that little piece of Russia that's outside separated from the main Russian Russian country and so and that they're not supposed to do so there rooms are explicitly included the other thing of course it doesn't include China this same criticism leveled at the IMF but these criticism suggesting not that anything wrong with it oh for goodness sake don't pull out of treaty Mr President Trump because it does actually give us greater benefits American planes can fly over Russia for example and feedback certain complaints from the American side but the balance of arguments and there are some who very strongly arguing with the other in America but the balance of the argument is not the thing happening if they announcing time to to do with the rules hang twenty four hours notice you know we're gonNA fly of your country it'll be an unarmed plan you can check the plane most treaties are I mean diplomacy is mucky ought you implementation tends to fray slide around the edges nevertheless open skies is in fact I've I've laid off stopped using twitter because I mean no one follows me anyway and it said and why should they and there's I'm talking about the youtube nine hundred sixty where an American spy plane flying over the over the Soviet Union was shot down now it avoids that Sir a true as mark asper a man who Ho Marcus brand new to come to has has has quietly pointed out some relish having your name bounty the unofficial leader the opposition used to show that that Medvedev had a yacht because he was he was in a position where only only it's it's not perfect but it's better than the not having and indeed as you as you mentioned there are reports that some trump administration officials are keen a very viable treaty and has reinforced confidence between two potential adversaries over a long period is key weaknesses are that firstly it was this is Monaco's few I am marcus hip to Indonesia now where the nation's president is now officially back for a second term the all the provisions of there but for example the Russians have not exactly played ball because they have restricted flights over Kaliningrad. which is that was what's thank you very much in a moment we ask what's next for Indonesia you're listening to Monaco's house view stay tuned plea dubious about signing new treaties about any kind of international entanglement and I think that it Sir brought into being in nineteen sixty two we have to keep missile crisis where you have sixty no sorry read to them in the case the US decides to stay do you think there's John's let China might be key to join one day as well? I think that would take a lot of hard persuasion I mean China is d include the founder of the Indonesian style Unicorn Goja but kick-starting Indonesia's faltering economy faces plenty of diversions chief among them Tree Jacoby is expected to prioritize education and foreign investment during his final tump starting with some added youth in his cabinet reported the the Russians would love it because if they still got in place I mean they stay they still have the right to fly over America whereas America has the right to fly with Russia Stephen Deal and John the ratio of his second term in Jakarta yesterday street violence in recent weeks has taken some of the shine of of the former carpenters reelection may student demonstrate invented before the Dragon Age so that it refers to aircraft you can probably stretched a bit drunk but it will be good in a perfect world to have it recast to the date I agree I mean and nothing that if a US pull out would only be welcomed by Moscow. I don't think

Tapie Monaco Justin Trudeau Stephen Deal America Liberal Party China Indonesia Jakarta US carpenters founder Russia Moscow four years twenty four hours thirty years three years one day
Episode 80  does the left really eat itself?

Sandy and Nora talk politics

49:58 min | 1 year ago

Episode 80 does the left really eat itself?

"Hey Nora Hey Sandy. Have you recovered yet. Oh coming goodness. I think I'm still recovering a little bit Trying to wrap my head around this new tape which we'll give we'll give we'll give a little bit of a roundup on and then we're just going to move on we're GONNA move on. We're going to talk about something different. Yes the first but I We have to show a lot of folks for their support. because This election a brought a lot of people people to the podcast. And so welcome if you found the podcast of the election and And the Patriots have been really popular. So thank you so much to bubble guppy to NIEVE. Graham Michael to quayle to Barbara. Martin Elliott Sherry and Michelle for all of your support and all the patrons friends that have been supporting us for months Whose names of you know? We don't get to see every single month but we do appreciate the support. You folks make this happen and we couldn't do without you. Thank you okay so roundup last week we were Kinda like you know. This doesn't seem so bad. The election outcome obviously is what I'm talking about this liberal minority where perhaps there would be some willingness to ally with the end. EP beat push forward. Maybe some of the more progressive things that we all hope can happen. Well if this week was any indicator it it seems like at a Liberal Party is more likely to be allying with the Conservative Party to pass through. Some of the things is that perhaps the majority of people who voted don't want to happen given that the majority of people who voted voted for parties. That don't want these types of things to happen and of course I am talking about This week's a commitment that Justin Trudeau and the liberals have made to a focus on at both tax cuts and building the Trans Mountain pipeline. Things that that weren't at number one top of mind being talked about In the election but of course the election's over now in the Liberals can take takeoff that progressive veneer. And Show you all. We've been saying forever that they are not who they pretend to to be. It doesn't bode well for the next. What one and a half years? Okay Max too I I think that you know it's important. Keep things in perspective. It's still minority. Government is still better than majority government because the Liberals Liberal's like bought a pipeline. It's not a huge surprise that they wanted continue doing pipeline stuff. But yet it's it's definitely I think coming as surprised to some progressives who believe the liberal rhetoric on an caring about the environment or carrying about funding services and therefore not necessarily meaning to to cut taxes of course taxes are at all time lows corporate taxes especially but also personal income tax and I don't know Seyni Zany how do you fight this. If they're going to ally themselves with the Conservatives it just seems so bleak well I think you know last week on the podcast. We talked about this On the live show. Where was it the live show and I remember? I think we talked about this in the last couple episodes and probably episodes long before but the most important thing especially in a minority government situation is to have really strong strong social movements Political action on the ground that forces the political parties to pay attention inching. Because as we've said before in a minority government situation the government can fall at any time and so it is going to be really the imperative On those of us on the ground were organizing to force the parties to respond to widespread red mass demands for things like A different direction on the climate crisis. for things like you know not being able to afford these. These types of tax cuts in fact which should be happening is more taxes on the wealthy healthy or things like A dental care program. You know like the these things we we really need to be fighting in the streets To make sure that these things happen because as we said before on this show the liberals are just not interested in a good policy for good policies. Sake they're not super focused on You know on on making this society better and they do have other interests and those are their corporate interests and the people who really fund their party and so it's up it's going to be up to us to create the political pressure that we we need to force some of these These these bad policies to go away and for these policies to have some sort of Implementation Vision. Yeah Yeah like the there. The door is a little bit open and the Liberals running towards the Conservatives as their first I order business is not too surprising because the liberals also polls they also chase popularity and with the Conservatives having win having won the popular vote and the MVP doing so poorly Orley. It's not super surprising that they went right also because they go right whenever they get elected rather than going left but it is possible to push them left and there is an interesting interesting Something interesting in this week that I thought Oh okay here. Perhaps is the signed that the conservatives are perhaps worth our time in terms of fighting them. I'm to change your position on climate. Change Blaine Higgs. The pre- premier of New Brunswick was saying that it was very clear in his provinces case that they voted in favor of the carbon carbon tax because the new Brunswick most people voted liberal and they also elected green candidate and he's Anti carbon-tax but he said that will you know the will of my people is that right. And so I'm I'm comfortable with that. And it reminded me that conservatives are like like the current brand conservatives are so connected connected to what their constituents think that they too can be pushed right. We don't have a hard line ideological conservative party right now like we had under Stephen Harper and so the force that movements can have on not just the Liberals but also the Conservatives is really important we're going to be able to move that yardstick stick. This is the time that we can do it. And we have to like I keep saying this show get out of the logic of partisanship and and do that on the ground work to convince local candidates that they will feel intense heat if they don't do what they're What they're constituency agency wants them to do because they know that? If at the drop of a hat there can be an election they need to have had the cred and the work done on the ground to confirm firm they can ruin their seat. And that's the power of the minority government that they will enter into that electoral period the conservatives being the ones that the most power in this situation of other than the Liberals They can enter into that electoral period. If they know that they'll they think they'll know that they'll win. And so now is the time to get to work into do that. Work and and and not feel like it's completely bleak and again if you voted liberal if you support the Liberal Party like sorry folks You're extremely part of the problem. Like I really hope that. You're calling every liberal person. Why don't you? I hope that you call every liberal. I and you know and be like what the fuck is this bullshit. Because that's exactly what this is bullshit. And let's also not discount the generational divide on a lot of these issues and not for anybody. WHO's under like fifty were fighting a very entrenched social Construction of of how politics works and what politics is and while of course people over the age of fifty. I mean the the millennial bulge that the Gen Ed Bulge. That's trying to take back control of their politics politics. We're not really getting anywhere. We're river still quite held captive by this old guard That refuses to realize the wrong or retire or or go away. So let's just keep up the fight folks. We're not um there's no reason to get to two down About stuff. Yeah unless you pay attention to media in in that case it's all fucking bad 'cause. I don't know if you saw sandy this week. But they announced to the new Margaret went. Oh I sure fucking did I was I was as like oh she's leaving. CVC opinions that's rate. That's great that is great for society and then I I saw which was going. So whatever fucked the Globe and Mail Most things That they put up his behind a paywall. It should be paying. I hope that nobody out there is paying The Globe in Mail to get past paywall. Because they've had some pretty terrible rebel writers in the past. Everybody listens podcast applied for a position with the global mail. Thinking that maybe maybe maybe was their time. Sorry I really do feel your pain because like that sucks it is such bullshit. Wow Okay I've wanted just slide that in there because I wanted to acknowledge fucking bullshit should that is and how fucked we really all are. But we're not talking about that today and we're not really gonNA talk much more about the federal government today either because we've done a fucking lot on that dumpster fire right but we are going to talk about something a little bit related. It's kind of like okay so you're probably wondering to yourself. It's a minority government government. These people keep telling us that we have to organize. What are some things that we have to think about when we are organizing on the ground so we are GonNa talk a little bit about that and I mean we this this the idea for this podcast came from one of our Attendees for the for the live live shows and thank you for this. We're going to talk a little bit about And Nora I mean we. We talked about the so briefly the the show started. But I'M GONNA I'M GONNA TURN IT education. Oh how how. We educate people when it comes is to Organizing but also a little bit of culture because education and culture so Mixed together and I WANNA frame aim it around education because they don't want it to just be a conversation like many of the conversations are think pieces that we've seen before and so the big wheel of the the topic. Is You know. There's like a frustration. That often happens about the left eating the laughs and how the culture of the left is so exclusive and so on and I really really do think that that is linked to different ideas of how we educate one another on the ground and do you know what I'm getting here normally. Does that make sense to you. I think it does. Okay tell me what that brings brings up for you. Yeah I think that when we're trying to figure out how to convince other people We forget that that's number one is skill and it's never too. It's not a skill that's rooted in how much education you have or or in any of those things that can kind of put you in a societal place that that makes you superior to another person right and I'm specifically thinking about universities right like you learn the best arguments that you learn you. You understand the best arguments who learned from marks and you're GONNA use marks to go out and spread the good word of of marks marks to to people who are who are who are less educated or less intelligent than you are. I'm not not and I think a lot of times. We we understand education to be that which is should not be in when it's done well. It isn't but the idea that through organizing we are able to transmit different different ways of thinking about things that we experience every single day. That's where like extremely radical work happens and we don't really talk about how. How do that work where to do that? Work and And the most effective ways to do that work am I. Am I right or yeah well. I think it's a writer wrong thing. I just think like I want into frame the conversation about around education because I I think that talking about you know having a like a kind of be headed I guess conversation about how how the left just eats itself and that sucks. isn't very useful. I send think it's not very useful because ooh I've seen that conversation for the last ten years. Now you know it doesn't do anything to say like Oh man. The left is so oh and united and to leave it there but like let's talk about why we're not united Or what we can do about it or why. We're feeling this way. And one of the things that they think is so crucial to having a a good well organized social movement that is inches inches stagnant but is also committed to becoming better is a social movement that is able to have debate And that has forums for where debate can happen and is couching that debate in in experiences. That people who need the change that we seek in our society. The most what those experiences are are. And I don't know that we have those types of flora and so what. I think that that ends up doing is that some people or groups of the people will have an idea of how things should be and you know things are so urgent and so people are very very passionate about how things things should be. And perhaps we skip the piece where we do the educating and debating and the discussion in with one another on the left and instead we're like this is how things should be and I'm so resolutely to help resolutely committed to how things should be That that I'm just going to go ahead and work on that and if people don't see why this is the way things should be I don't have time for the education season so I'm just gonNa keep keep going great. I keep focusing on that and then that could create an air of resentment. But that doesn't mean that those folks are incorrect act and it doesn't mean the folks who maybe don't get it don't understand These really passionate positions aren't going to come along long at some point. It just means that we're missing like step like a crucial step. Like that's how I feel. I don't know what do you think. Yeah I think when you said having a discussion. That's a bit like decapitated. The decapitated I think is really Gruesome and interesting way to think about it. I liked it. You know. It's you may be listening to us on Halloween. So there goes your little little Halloween treat To think of because the so I and maybe it's just because like I'm super cynical well and I'm often accused of being like way too critical to other people on the left but I I actually don't really buy the line about the left eating itself I have certainly read articles articles by people who've written that the left is so ineffective because it can't get its shit together and because it's always shitting on on another and certainly in the last federal election you can look at the Greens and the MVP and you could say that's maybe what happened You can look at a lot of other examples actually to especially if you're like in a union situation. People totally disagree on the topic. Nick that you're supposed to take and as you say there's no location to have that debate to decide with. The best. Tactic might beat now. I've just written a manuscript for book that's GonNa come out next year and In in this is awesome because this is actually the first. My first two chapters in the book is talking about literally this guy. I didn't plan it. Ah I know you're not seeing this this manuscript yet and the the problem the real problem is not that the left is eating itself. Like my God like the the biggest victims of of Stalinism were fucking communist like the left has a long history of killing other lefties The real problem is that there are no locations to have debate. And so what we're left with is the only debate that we can have is debate. That's online online and I think when it's debate that's online it. It becomes even more explosive even more divisive. Because there really isn't much ability to mitigate our our our rawness and so what I mean by that is first of all. If you're if you're debating with some online you need to be very literate right. You need to be able to read an understand and synthesize and fasten your writing and be clean your writing or else everything goes off the fucking rails and in real life debate. You don't have to be that literate right you actually look at someone's facial expressions you can understand if they're uncomfortable you can understand if they're angry. You can understand if the heat has gone too high and just need to take a moment or you can understand if someone's really on your side or if they're being sarcastic are making a joke. None of that exists online and and instead what we have is we have outsourced. Our individual interactions to private for profit corporations that are run in founded by Nazis and Nazi not sympathizers who actually make it completely impossible to have a a an online version of a real life debate and so oh like you know San you and I were not in the same room right now. I can't see your face I can hear your voice. I can hear the tone of your voice and this is a conversation I ah is sure. It's being mitigated by our foams right but the voice media and the reason why podcast excited is exciting in expanding is because people like like really can hear the warmth or the anger or the fury or the intention or the sarcasm invoice in printed is not the same thing and instead we are writing to Hugh One another mitigated through platforms that say. Oh no no no. You can't say that word or no no no. You can't exceed two hundred eighty characters or oh no no no. You can't take more than five minutes or ten minutes or today's because otherwise it's gone right or whatever and that fucking changes everything that changes literally fucking everything and don't you think it is fascinating that we I mean we. We hear more about the left eating itself than we do about whether or not communication on social media is like genuine or true or even possible. Yeah I mean this this is the thing right. It's just. The conversation is so devoid from any type of direction right. It's like okay so if the point is that the left is eating itself and then so stop eating eating yourself like how do you how how. What is the direction that one goes into do that given the reality the you've just kind of spelled out for us hopefully fool you tell us the answer in your book that I you know I also think that You know there's ways that we can employ employ the Internet to create those types of flora. Perhaps on twitter but like you know there may be. There might be ways to do it but I think obviously The the best ways is when people are in front of one another because as you say we have different faculties for communication and and You know when you are able to use more of them you are better communicator and so you can communicate with someone that you you. Don't you disagree with their ideas or you don't understand their ideas in a way that can be received with okay this conversation. We I want to continue this conversation. which is less and less possible? It feels like online especially with like the mitigating trolls But you know like I said I do think that there are ways that we can create those types of forums online especially if we have closed forums with breath with people online. And I just think that it is very crucial for us to think about how now we're going to take some of the most complex ideas that we have right now like like. Let's talk about the climate crisis right like the the the climate crisis the solutions are really complex. And it's hard to distill down to folks who maybe haven't had an opportunity opportunity to think about the climate crisis in the ways that others of us have and it's going to in in order to create the political pressure that we need to force Policy makers and those in power to make the changes that need to be made so that the corporations don't continue to distress wrestle. We didn't need to be really committed to that education work and we're going to need to be really committed to having the discussion Russian and debate because there's going to be people who have experiences with the climate crisis who we don't have access to the media in the same ways. Ace that others do right. People who are from indigenous communities who live in poverty are going to have a different experience with the climate Emmett crisis than people who've been thinking about it from the safe walls an ivory tower and that's not to say that what people are communicating from from a university. Context isn't important but it is to say that more people are going to hear from that university professor. Then they're going to hear from an an indigenous youth from the Amazon and so that that's something that we have to keep in mind. Is that the education piece of this is very crucial show. And we're going to have to be doing what we can to create for Where people who aren't often heard or aren't often part of the discussion gene but are central to the discussion Need to be heard while I have so many different directions that we could go in in this discussion You you know while you were talking. I was thinking about what. Why do we need to talk with those forms? Look like and one of the things that struck me. I always think about like candidate. So fucking big. It's so expensive to travel. How do we get people together in the same room? It seems impossible and then during the research of my book I would be reading about national conferences. That happened in like eighteen. fucking ninety ninety. And you're like okay. Like Canada was actually harder to travel around in one thousand nine hundred so they did it possible for them to do it. Why is it so hard for us to do our our even in the nineteen sixty s and nineteen eighties or whatever and so I think that social media has also put up the blockers of of imagination and thinking of of the necessity to get us together into the same room because we because we have positive Things that come from social media. We met people online. We found communities of people online. There's so many great things about social media media but it doesn't replace that that organizing in real life. I mean one of the things I always says. If you can't be sure that the person you're communicating with is like not a cop that is not going to be a platform for revolutionary organizing period. Right like much. Someone says who they are online like unless you're certain Well of course real life It does happen that the police are able to to Get involved in organising In ways as for that we don't realize like was during the G Twenty in Toronto in two thousand and ten where police were undercover and actively participating an anarchist organizations. I mean at the very least you still have to become friends with people and you know who they are in real life online at so much. It's so much easier and you know. oftentimes people kind of look at the the right and they say like you know the rate is united. There's a big tens of right wing thought that ranges that that that that runs the gambit from really outrageous racist far-right voices two who social conservatives to religious conservatives to whatever in some people will say like members of the Green Party And so how can they do it in the left. Can't can't I think we also need to think about the ways that social media actually helped promote the right and how they can use that outrage because the discussions fans are in the tenor of the discussions completely different when when everything is is is bashing stuff and insulting people and smashing things down and saying like completely outrageous shit. That's not true. Of course social media is going to carry message better when you're trying to be nuance to bring people together and you try to have a good of a good faith debate. Doing that online becomes extremely family. Difficult and then it becomes inaccessible for certain people for reasons of time or for reasons of Internet. Connectivity or reasons of as I said earlier literacy like whatever there's so many barriers to having a good nuanced debate online that these social that these structures are actually exclusive. And we don't talk about the the impact that that has on our movements and so what what results in that is you know someone like Greta. Turn Tonsberg who becomes like an international superstar for fucking King. Some reason like I'm not sure what force propelled her. Of course there's conspiracy theories on the left and the right about what's behind her success but it means that she's able to bring up more people people to a rally in Vancouver or Montreal or an Edmonton than any number of the local activists whose daily existence is impacted by climate change or by Environmental Tale Racism and so bizarre. Yeah right it's really bizarre. I get celebrity culture. I think that it's great that there is a high profile young a young woman that has like a really good example of what we need to do but but like nut in the left cannot survive on celebrity culture. There's there's no number of individual the people no matter how impressive or important they are that is going to be the catalyst to get us to figure out how to move forward and instead we again we sit on on social media oftentimes because even those of us who are active locally that local organising doesn't often get out bigger than our own communities indies. How man isn't it so mazing like the Internet is supposed to be the thing that connects us greater than ever before and that? We have the entire body of knowledge of humanity at our fingertips tips. And somehow it has completely isolated us in profound and difficult ways. I mean who created the Internet. Nora the military you know. That's getting well. It was as I now know since I'm a student at UCLA. It was a student you still. They've got all these banners and say birthplace of the Internet everywhere and they've got home on the. Oh Yeah they've got they've got the classroom where it was like created they've like they've like pre preserved it like very funny. I haven't gone to see it. I've just heard about it. It's like in the you know the same blackboard with the same stuff on the board. Oh Yeah it's like very anyway anyway. What what I meant by that was like who created Internet? The Internet like as it exists today all the different spaces of the Internet. It's mostly people who would create a situation where a a communication form for communication tears support or doesn't doesn't in fact Bring it think about things that will bring us together and so on you know talking about the people who wound everything the wealthiest white men amongst us. But it's also like and I know you know this organizing right. It's like so much easier to tear something down than it is to build something. It is so much easier to destroy thing than to build thing like. Yeah I mean the the right has an advantage. Just generally Because they're being Dick's online in that travels but also because they're often it didn't trying to destroy or dismantle some of the things that we have spent very long time in society building and it's very very easy to do that you don't have to to to think too much about like who's going to be affected. What are the nuances of this going to be like? Where do we go? I you know who do we. Who Do we prioritize when you're saying destroy the healthcare system sister saying like fuck universities when you're saying I don't want people to have protections on their speech like just tear it all down it so so so much easier to destroy something then to build it and I think that we do have some of those tendencies in the left to that when we when we feel a like sometimes we'll feel a AH movement coming on where it's like? Oh I can destroy this or I can. I can talk about this In a way. That's like super maybe devoid avoid from politics and that is more about culture and trying to make a pivot to language here and it's not working. Yeah well I I might be able to help because they feel like One of the other things that we also have appreciate is that you know sectarianism on the left is something audits existed since the left has existed and this is nothing new this is not new with Inter no also exist on the right and I think we should you know. Make sure that people know about that too. It's just like political. Political organizing comes Exactly INSECTARY ISM is really important. I mean like the the end. EP is weak. Make because the far left is weak right the MVP is not weak. Because like they're just completely not able to figure out what people want and they are incompetent. There there's a there's a connection between how strong social democracy is and how strong the opposition to social democracy is from the left. And you know like I I I know. oftentimes people will like anarchists for doing something. And they're like. Why did you go and do that? That was unnecessary. That was extreme. Or whatever and I personally I love that. There's a full diversity of what people engage in and I'm personally might not be prepared to engage in something I might not think something is strategic but I fully appreciate the role that the the different strains of the left play and I'm comfortable in the strain that I've chosen and I've chosen it because of the work that I've done I understand where I think I'm suited and where I think is the most strategic and I'm happy to argue about that with people are debate with other people and I think that the lack of debate just makes people feel uncomfortable? Because it's like you know the second you see you know a bank window being smashed and you're like Oh. Why did they do that like? Why did they do that? Because that's going to pivot this this the coverage to being vandalism or why did they do that. Don't support vandalism or whatever it's like rather than looking at it that way you could also look at it as a well that is a symbolic example of the the pain that the banks of caused on on people or this like these are decisions being made by marginalized people in. Perhaps you're not part of that discussion. You're part of the district is the strategy and you just have to go. Maybe I don't understand. And we you have to be able to live with these differences on the left and accept these differences on the left where language comes in I think is it so easy easy to confuse people. About what is the left and there's the subdivisions in the subdivisions and sectarianism and the the good sectarianism awesome and bads attorney and because it is so easy to disorient an already fractured and broken Movement language becomes weaponized weaponized by people to disparage work to tear things down Sometimes you have the tyranny of language so someone who's like super verbose or or or maybe highly educated like just slapping people with thesaurus. And it's like and it's also very easy for the right to use leftist language and then confused fuck it of everybody and that's a really good example where you see turfs right where the were feminist tennis is in in the word turf and then all of a sudden people like. I don't understand why these feminists are such Dick's or like in one of my pet peeves is like the the The way that the right uses the word silence all the time which you know like the conception of silence on the left that were often talking about comes from like a really You know Academic Way to talk about how certain identities are are literally not given the space to speak actively from a more dominant identities and it doesn't mean that northern you and I are having an argument and then I said something that she disagrees with it so she says I disagree with you or maybe more forcefully like shut the fuck up and silence. That's not what it actually means. What it means is that you don't see the opinions and discussions that are ah the closest and most important to black women in Armenia like because they are actively silenced generally from society the the the the the Voice of Black Women are silenced in our broader culture? And so you know the left's has this this concept that they come up with and develop in an academic context and then the right like it's like. Oh how do we take this spin. It which is a total tactic of theirs because they do with so many of our concept and they take silence and then all of a sudden Fuckin- Tucker Carlson on television talking about how he's been. I don't know if this is reopened. I'm sure it is how he's been silenced. from Greta Tonsberg dislike. It becomes like this really bizarre thing but it's also a part of the problem is how you know when we come up with these concepts on the left's again a the lack of education to making these concepts useful for us to talk about in society beyond The people who are like developing it in an academic sense because these concepts were like naming things that aren't necessarily understood or don't necessarily have names in society and we need to give them names to give them like a recognisability inability ability to talk about them and so on but so many people need these concepts and they need them in the very specific ways that they've been developed and if we don't do the education patient work APP to to responsibly Make sure that these concepts can be used in the way that they so desperately need to be the US. Well then the right can come and take them and destroy them and make them not useful at all You must be thinking of a couple of examples of this. I certainly have some alignment my mind. But what are your favorite examples of this happening other than silence. There's there's so so so many and like you for a while had in my office with an office together like a list of words. They'd want people to say in my office unless they were going to do work to make sure that people really understood what we were talking about because I I sometimes the other thing that happens some of these words and terms is that we start using them as cigna fires for our own cultural place rather than using to talk about particular terms so like some that I'm talking about our What's a good one trigger warning Trader Wednesday morning. You know it's a very important concept that has often been used incorrectly. We certainly by the right but also incorrectly by the left and there hasn't been enough like education Kishan works that people can talk about what the idea of a trigger warning is and has also Diluted looted what it means but but also the idea of using the words trigger warning to give a trigger. Weren't we don't have to do that right. Like the concept sugar warning is to make sure that people Are Aware that what they're going to be. Viewing reading experiencing reinstating might be difficult for them. If I told my mother that I was going to give her a trigger warning. She didn't know what I was talking about. Because that's just it's not culturally something that she would understand but when the news or a television program says a warning to viewers. Some of what you're about to experience might be disturbing like that is that is a content note. That isn't true warning but we don't have to necessarily use either those this particular word or we can make sure that when we're using those terms that we do it not without the education work that needs to be done and so what does the right eight do when we when we use such terms without doing the education work that needs to be done around them or devoid of what it's original the purpose of is the use that concept trigger warning to say that we're all snowflakes or something like that. Despite the fact that these types of warnings have existed in our culture since since certainly since before I was born like a really long time. This is this is it's it's it's regular and we we've been talking about more in a different way but without doing the necessary education work to make sure that everyone's brought along with us. Yeah what's that's one of your famous while I was GonNa say I actually this also in my book. Yeah getting a copy of it. Yeah I know exactly one of the things one of the the terms I think actually y which is an example. I can come up with other ones that are that have been completely distorted or whatever I think you know. Gasoline is another great example as well and everything has gas lighting and instead of saying lying. We're just saying gas lighting and it's like no no appropriation or Michael. Shriner's take the multiple words for racism that that that become distorted out in the world. Yep Yep but one of the words that what I think the work had been done in a very good way is Rape Culture because my remember when rape culture started to become something that like like feminists were were saying more and more I felt like it was a signifier that they were all in the know and I wasn't because they never could my head around with the fuck that meant liking like I knew that we lived in a culture. That was misogynistic. I knew that rape was normalized but the but the idea of rape culture never sat. Well well with me. Because I couldn't parse those two words together and the work that feminists did to make that into a term on. Its own so that you're not sitting going rape culture. What is rape culture insisting Greek culture like as a shorthand for the way that misogyny and patriarchy you know sexualize sexualize women's especially sixth sexualize young women and girls in rampant Sexual assaults that exists or harassment Blah Blah Blah on which the entire society's right. He's built the work that that people did to to to normalize and explain in French we would say vulgar era his. I always wanted to say that That term was was exactly. I think what you're talking about that. We have to be very aware that you know that the left if we're if we're doing the the the the work of knowledge creation than we also have to do the work of knowledge dissemination not use these terms to to to be to bludgeoned legend people who are not in it or with it or whatever and that I think is also probably what this person meant by the left eating itself because I mean we don't really have leftist leftist movements that are that strong and so the true consumption the auto consumption of the left is not at the level. It should be because we don't have much chapel left right and so I suspect it's more of these kinds of feelings of being a aggressed or of being Outside of the no or or not being woke I mean fuck woke another really good example of one of these fucking words right and and yeah and we need to talk about what when when we are creating knowledge then dissemination of that knowledge has to be done in a very careful and a very intelligent way another great example of a Dun-rite misogyny Dr her which is a concept that you know I I imagined has existed for many many many years but has only been in the in the mainstream for a couple of ears and you can talk about the different racism sexism combination of of of both experienced by black women by saying misogyny and people go. Okay I understand what you're saying. Yes and even the way that Especially in the last I would say five or six six years the idea of anti black racism which is a concept. That's been around for a really long time but the way that it's been You Know I. It carefully used to educate people about the fact that this is something specific that is also been done really really well but we gotta be careful with the way that we are employing language and culture in our goals because it is so easy to be able to to be manipulated through these things and part of it is because of what we were talking about before the lack of Spaces in which we can we can do some of the dissemination work That is so so crucial to our movements. And so what do we do with all this like. We identified a bunch of stuff. Like what do we do. I know we've run out of time so we'll just be like sorry everybody to know we're not gonNA do that I think that the most important thing that we do in our practice of like social change whatever the fuck that means for. Are you individually or collectively. If you're listening around radio listening to us with a group of people is Is that we have to find spaces to do the stuff in real life and whether that means in real life literally in real life or via skype or whatever like coming together is really really important. And if you're in an organization that has the resources versus the capacity to bring people together you fucking should be bringing people together. I mean this is where the Labor movement is both very good and very bad. That's very good in that conventions are still held. oftentimes in real life and people are able to argue about things on convention floor. And it's kind of bad in that they're not necessarily expanding These kinds of spaces to be reaching people weren't unionized. So that's that's something I think for people to listen to think about if they are in any kind of grouping of people that has money especially a disgruntled liberal and you hate the Liberal Party and you want to figure out a way to spend spend some of their money in a on a does and my my final piece of advice would be to think about all the ways in which the left is vulnerable able to being infiltrated and being attacked being surveyed and being confused by the right because in all of our discussions about about the left eating itself there is a right wing piece of shit that is actually fermenting it and making things worse and so you know we know especially on the on those those subjects that are the most touchy not where you have people who might mascot and who might Engage in in vandalism or engage in whatever in acts at a protest that you're really frustrated by why in you get get upset by if you get upset by that to know that we know in this country that police infiltrate these movements all the fucking time and that oftentimes the things that you're most upset by you being manipulated to be upset my end and so the the speeches given in at at At Mohawk hot college in Hamilton. where a little old lady was like harassed from Angry mean racialist anarchists Little old white lady just trying to get into a speech given by fucking like pro-fascists including Maxime Bernier. I mean we can't be manipulated by this stuff and and the manipulation is is is driven by the right. There's no question that this stuff is being driven by the right whether it's extremely organized or it's like chaotically organized organized. It's being organized by the right but left us to look at that stuff and who are uncomfortable with it. And then who say I agree we need to condemn that. What happened there like you? You gotta think really hard about who is making this into an outrage. And why are they making an insured outrage and is the true outrage that Some folks blocked access to an event hosted hosted by Dave Rubin and Maxim Bernabei or is the true outrage. The fact that these fucking people are trying to get in there right. Uh that was a lot to talk about into think about a little heavier than our last few episodes. But thank you very much sherry. Who came to our our live show in Toronto a couple of weeks ago and gave us that idea? I hope That was kind of what you were thinking about and for other listeners especially our new listeners. Send there's ideas of things to talk about that you would like to hear US talk about We take those ideas from time to time and we chat about him. We do we do and I just want to show someone else who was giving me tons of ideas for a show and we didn't talk about those ideas yet. WanNa show at Steve for his ideas. he he was saying that of course the at some point we need to talk Western separatism in in alien nation and. I think that that would be a wonderful topic for us to talk about. Not because we need to take those fools seriously. Obviously but you know maybe future up. We can talk about self-determination and sovereignty and why Canada is fake. Okay they have a great week. Everybody Happy Halloween or whatever. I guess. Breath

Liberal Party Nora Hey Sandy MVP rape Toronto US vandalism Canada Graham Michael Greta Tonsberg Justin Trudeau Dick Patriots Max Blaine Higgs federal government Stephen Harper
#114 - Climate Election

Think: Sustainability

18:54 min | 1 year ago

#114 - Climate Election

"Due to the polling the whole country expected that we were going to get a Labor government everyone from the Liberal Party to live a party to the union movement to the Environment Movement to a whole bunch of really engaged voters alike nick trying to reassess reorientated in in a situation which was not what was expected this is nicky ice in my my co-founder of community power agency and a research as I sit here at the Institute for Sustainable Features A._T._S. and in this episode with the benefit of hindsight we'll look back at the election what went right what went wrong and what we can learn about the climate campaign so back before may eighteen we. I thought we were in a climate election. Why do you think that was will we wear in a climate election? We had seen extreme weather events from bushfires in the middle of Tasmania that had never burnt went forty fires burning across the state for Tasmania is very bushfires in the middle of winter massive floods that killed livestock in Townsville and actually to aboriginal peoples lives begin to recede in Townsville Police Place of made a tragic discovery the board and then we had hate waves across some of that were unprecedented extreme. Hey w-we is sweeping across much of the country to route cooks temperatures soaring up to blistering thirty eight and we could see the impacts of climate on day to day lives and that really connected with people main while this is happening all over the world and you had people like growth humbug. I'm here to say our house is on fire leading the <hes> Fridays for the future and that led to the school strikes here in Australia. You had the big stop at and campaign. I think it was really catalyzed by the I._P._C.. The international intergovernmental panel on Climate Change One point five degree decree report last year according to the I._P._C.. We are less than twelve years away from not being able to undo our mistakes of us to be getting out of coal to ensure that we don't lose all of the wraith the right of of new coral growth in the race has dropped my eighty-nine assent and all of the Pacific islands many shop into so there was a combination of a whole range of things in the late up to to the election and certainly they were places around the country that did vote for climate change and made it a really top priority but was it priority enough has begun in this is sustainability. I mean a Kirpal an owner how much weight we should be putting on polls in any form lost election but there were polls said. That people were really concerned about climate change. Yes how are you feeling. Did you feel like people were going to be voting with climate change in mind potentially leading to a non liberal win that was certainly the indication the narrative the polling and things like that. I think if we just talk about polling for a second the K. thing that we didn't know because the pulses didn't tell us was how many undecided voters there were so <hes> Pity Lois from essential media said the thing that we will never do again. It is a present a two party preferred number in polling that adds up to a hundred people were asked if they would vote liberal label and not offered any alternatives that boy silences and disenfranchised the on engaged people potentially -verting for minority parties who people we need to be reaching out to the people who in this country where we have compulsory voting and the people that actually helps decide elections. It was a very close election both parties. I didn't do well as well as they fought in the primary vote but what happened is you saw a lot of people vote for minor parties that denser a floor in preferences to the to the Liberal Party so I think that if you look at the a number of people who were really engaged particularly on the progressive side of politics who hadn't been engaged before there was a really strong sentiment around climate and I think that he'd sway a number of people's votes and if you look at places like indic- and Ringa Inga they were climate elections in die and will ringa. I just two electorates out of one hundred and fifty one in Australia but together they can teach us a lot about what went right and drone for climate in the lost election and we're Ringo former prime minister attorney Abbott lost his seat in an area that had been safely conservative for close to a century. I think what you saw was a groundswell of people in the wearing your electric who said we no no longer want this person who has been climate blocker a climate saboteur if you will for over a decade we no longer want him to represent our interests and us in parliament and I think that they were raisins beyond climate change but climate change was really the focal point kid is wakes. I suspect they will be a great deal of analysis of the part that AH climate change did not apply in the ring outcome. Let me just say these says my first word if not necessarily my last word on this subject the climate change is a moral issue. We liberals do it. Tough for climate. Change is an economic issue as results shows. We do very very the vision. I've heard of that climate. Change is a moral issue. The progressive side of politics wins and that was certainly the case in places like ringer but where they vote based on economics that they vote not to act on climate. I disagree I think in places like India people voted for climate action based on the local economic benefits of clean energy abbots categorization of climate change Verdes as being either morally or economically focused might work in his electorate but there are some areas where campaigns blurring the boundaries we have been unapologetic about the agenda of this campaign. This is Helen Hanes independent for indic- giving a victory speech on the night of the election and foremost in that agenda was action on climate di wants this is a traditionally conservative electorate the Liberal Party held for many many years and then you saw a groundswell in two thousand tain of local people dying. We don't like similar the the local candidate the local member there was <hes> circa Mirabella and shoes similarly divisive like Tony Abbott and very hard right wing <hes> local member Marin people didn't like that and you had a groundswell that led to voices for indic- that led to the election of Cathy McGowan and what was really interesting is that those people who worked to try and get an independent pendant voice into parliament that really represented rage that regional constituency that did want to see more public transport greater healthcare and things like that at the same time you saw the emergence of community renewable energy they started as community grass roots initiatives and so those people who are doing work around independence in an election context also went. We'll let's do something around independence in an energy context and they laid the groundwork over the last six years to be able to go actually renewable energy is really good for our region where you can go to one hundred percent renewables we can lower our Powell bills. We can help keep the money that we spend on our power bills circulating in the local economy <hes> so there are all of these different benefits and then what you saw is as Cathy McGowan retired voices for die run a process where they selected who they wanted day independent candidate Bay that was Helen Hanes now. It's time to pass on the Baton Helen. John Heinz is an excellent candidate and she's ready to go who had been involved in some of the community groups and was able to talk really authentically about how acting on climate change would benefit the electric of indic- and point will of these great examples of projects that are going ahead so they made it really real. Helen Hanes wasn't just talking about economics and she wasn't just talking about the environment she was highlighting. The Way I community was already working to bring them both together. I see how communities being directly impacted by the changing climate then I say the leadership from many about young and old working together to create renewable energy solutions when government have filed. Title to provide them and she got support not just in those sort of trae change communities of Yakin Nanna but in the regional centers like would donder and Wangaratta and places like that so it's it's not just some changes and I think think this model that we need to be looking at more across particularly regionalist really ended up proved that the economic benefits of renewable energy can make for a powerful campaign but it's a message that was missed in merced of Australia Australia after the election Hashtag Qu- exit emerged with people tweeting things like I'd like to thank the Feller Hashtag Queensland People for making my future a grim one upside down Smiley Face Hashtag election two thousand nineteen results Hashtag exit and I am calling it. It's time for coexist. You've really screwed us. Queensland Hashtag Australia Votes Twenty Nine thousand nine Hashtag was Po- HASHTAG coexist. I think there's a whole bunch of stuff around Queensland and maybe I'll try and unpack some of it. I think the first thing is they was a swing to the more conservative side of politics particularly the minor parties that in Queensland that translated translated to lodge swings a couple of places so that is a real thing on your queen. My mom is from Queensland. My partner is from Queensland. Queensland is an amazing statements not going anywhere. I think that there's is a few things one is we didn't talk about renewable energy very much as a movement in the election. We talked about climate change. We talked about stopping Donnie. We didn't talk about renewable energy particularly so that's the first thing so we had a now we said it was the conditions were created for jobs fusses environment narrative even your the amount of jobs in mind likely Danica very small even though they're amazing jobs happening in Queensland already the renewables industry and even though there's a whole range of economic diversification options in tourism in manufacturing a whole range of things so it was a highly polarized context there was some things the we could have done differently to reduce the polarization and I think we're learning those lessons at the moment whether federal election campaign in Queensland failed to deliver the message that climate and economy can go together Nikki. He says the Victorian state government has succeeded. I actually wrote an opinion piece for the the age where a look at what the Victorian government has really done to show what the current and future jobs look clock as we act on climate change and show how everyone can be a winner as we act on Climate Change Victorian state government ran a reverse auction program looking for ideas to fund that would boost the renewable sector and employment. It's about encouraging people's kind of question the norm and really encouraging people that has led to the retooling of an old cop plant in Geelong to now manufacturer wind turbines. It's led to the establishment of a new you renewable energy training program Ambala rat. That's going to train local people to be <hes> operators and maintenance staff on the wind and solar projects <hes> and it's also led to a whole range of community benefit funds and on new opportunities some ways of engaging and communities directly benefiting from large-scale renewable energy so this is not just a conversation around co versus renewables but what does a future look like where we act on climate change and enjoy the economic benefits over and that's a complex narrative that's difficult to cut through INA soundbite base election but we need to be doing more work to lay the groundwork and I think state governments particularly the Queen Sang State government needs to be doing more to make that easier for people like us to do and certainly I would say the Victorian government has done that. Let's see what happens in the next eighteen months in the lead up to the Queensland state election. I mean it's interesting because I'm framing this discussion about an a federal election action and here we are talking about state governance. Is that the problem here that really these solutions are being left to state governments and then we ask the solutions from the federal government that they aren't able to give us so climate change is an issue that works at every a single level of government. It certainly would be easier if we had federal leadership to act on climate change in Australia played a much more proactive and positive role in the international arena but in the absence of that Federal Action Action there is a huge amount that state governments can do well not least that largest contribution to climate change is through exports of fossil fuels and through Colfax pass stations Nasdaq governments responsible for approving irving minds <hes> and they're also responsible for <hes> your electricity they are the national electricity lower is actually state by state legislation so we need to be doing state. Governments do have a really really big role to play here that would be made easier if the federal government took a leadership role in the absence of that leadership role state governments need to step up even more so some of the things that the Liberal Party promised during during the election campaign that was their emission reduction targets or twenty six to twenty eight percent by two thousand and thirty there climate solutions fund plan snowy two point. Are these things that you think we can work with in order to enact positive change. I would say it's challenging. I think the battery of the nation and Snowy two point Oh our if we want to move to renewable energy quickly they are good initiatives if you want to move to renewable energy. Slowly they're not actually needed yet. <hes> so there's a way to work with those two initiatives the twenty six to twenty eight percent talker is woefully low and we're not even meeting that so that is a big problem bloom and then the climate solutions fund which is just a rebranding of the emissions reduction fund <hes> is currently under Review <hes> and the review is looking at about whether that funding can be used to upgrade coal-fired power stations so. I don't think it's a good program they looking to make it a west program. I think that there's a lot of work that needs to be done to hold this government to account the federal government and the ideological opposition to acting on climate and renewables nobles in the Federal Coalition is really out of step with what is happening in the world both in terms of the public sentiment and desire for people for leadership on climate change but also the economics we have aging coal-fired power stations wins in Australia. They need to be replaced by something. They'RE GONNA be replaced by the cheapest form of new generation and that will be Sola weaned battery storage pumped hydro and all the foaming solutions the Reserve Bank gets this. The economic regulator gets this be H._p.. Gets this blue scope steel here. So many different companies get this state governments starting to get it. There's only so long <hes> the federal federal government can hold back the tide of these global economic trends and global economic realities so it will be very difficult for them to continue to hold the line they currently hold. They're going to give it a red hot guy but I think it's going to be much more difficult these terror government than it has been for the last two so I think there is a lot of disappointment <music> but I don't think there is any illusions that Labor was going to be this great climate later. They certainly had a lot better policies than the Liberal Party does and the National Party leader but they ah if you compare the science to what the Labor Party was proposing. There's still quite a long way to guard so that's something that people keep in the back of their mind and then the third thing is a huge amount of determination <music>. If we want to make sure that we have a livable future and a safe future for people living now but also people who are yet to be born for the species across the panic particularly the most vulnerable he Nath Society's. We don't have a choice. We've got to keep going and so I think he say that determination across moven tinged by sadness but certainly a huge amount of determination people getting fired up mm-hmm. You've been listening to think sustainability which is made in the studios of S._E._O.. With support of the Institute for Sustainable Futures this show is made on.

Australia Liberal Party Queensland federal government Helen Hanes Cathy McGowan Victorian government Townsville Tony Abbott Labor government Queensland Tasmania Environment Movement John Heinz Institute for Sustainable Feat Kirpal
Tony Abbott in conversation with James Forsyth

Coffee House Shots

21:11 min | 1 year ago

Tony Abbott in conversation with James Forsyth

"Just before we start listening to this podcast reminded that we have a special subscription her he can at twelve issues of the spectator for twelve pounds as well as the twenty pound amazon voucher the go-to you spectator dot com forward slash voucher if you'd like to get his offer hello and welcome to a special canals shorts goes before plans to australia. It's nice to be here. Whether you're in london. You gave a speech yesterday exchange saying that the brexit fails person vilem coming from overseas how do you how do you see the brisbane school situation as you've landed here it looked i should be absolutely strike with you. I'm an incorrigible anglophile. Always have always will be britain. Is it's an extraordinarily successful an extraordinarily influential country. If you look at what britain has given the world the industrial revolution the mother of parliaments the world common language now country on earth has had as much impact on the wider world is britain modern world has effectively denied in english if not all white in england so this is an extraordinary country which has managed to get itself shackled in in european union which i think is holding britain bag which the british people have democratically decided to leave and that vote has been undermined and subverted at every turn by the british establishment and at the moment the power plant is threatening to derail the thing now. I just think that's verging on the unconscionable. I understand that there are lots of people who were disappointed with the result. I understand there are lots of papal who for their own perfectly good reasons <hes> would have preferred a different result but but the people have spoken and when the people speak in that way <hes> a democrat has got. I will do it now to raise him. I was right when she said no. Deal is is better than a bad deal. The deal britain was ever gonna get out of the was a bad deal because the a._u. Is absolutely theological event ever class a union. They are theological geological about the europe project. Anyone who isn't prepared to subscribe to their project is a is essentially a heretic <hes> you know they do. The heretic takes that i'd trade them. Well people lots of the critics of not you to damage the person's international reputation ideal but it reminds me. There's a risk of international damage the other way if you end up having a referendum and then you end up saying changed her mind reversing it doesn't send the most steady signal to the world exactly right. I mean if having decided to to leave the british polity proves incapable of putting listen to practice this would be an epic failure national humiliation on an extraordinary scale that we'll echo down through the ages and that's the last thing that any britain should want and that's the last thing that a friend of britain should want to see this country humiliated and that's what it would be to have come thus far in the life process and then not to see it through would be testify. It would be a complete complete an utter failure of will as i said in the speech yesterday he who puts his hand to the plow and then turns bag is unworthy of the kingdom when you think about it from australian men's birth canal future u._k. Australia trade deal when you look at the proposed used. Theresa may deal that was rejected by parliament. How much do you think that would have constrained to u._k. Australia trade deal well. It couldn't have happened. I mean under the theresa my proposed proposed deal britain would remind in the customs union effectively forever certainly indefinitely and while britain is in the european customs union union it cannot do any deals with anyone else it simply comedy cooked on tariffs irradiation within that couldn't do yeah but nothing of significance and that's the whole point of the do it is to constrain the freedom and the independence of the countries within it so so you presume your happier with proposal when he says the deal he wants a basically allow the u._k. To diverge from the absolute that with that for the the whole point of getting out of the e._u. was to take back control to to use the fries and and taking back control complains that the british parliament decides what happens in this country the british parliament decides tripe policy tariff policy defense policy immigration policy it decides relations that britain has with the rest of the world not the bureaucrats in brussels when you look at the u._k. Australia trade deal. I i mean how quickly do you think it could be done. The howard bush u._s. Australia traded that was two years. Even get can be done in that. Timescale absolutely right look to countries on earth. Should it'd be more capable of doing a swift deal the most right here in britain. I mean your way up comparable countries in our standard of living coming in out of rules and regulations in living standards way complementary economies. We are people else who naturally get on well with each other. We certainly speak the same language and i think a free trade deal between britain and australia involved <hes> tariffs quite as on goods full mutual recognition of standards and qualifications and much freer the movement of people and this is very important for work at decent wages not welfare and i stress decent wages because you dont want people coming in from anywhere britain's dot one australians coming in australians that one britain's coming in to depress wages but where people can come in and mikey contribution tradition gripe. Let them do it an until civil australian public opinion almost any aspects of this deal but you think would be controversial in australia look now. Australian factory is gonna close down. British factory ni- british farm is gonna close down australian farm. We have almost entirely unsubsidized agriculture recall chief. <hes> we have almost entirely unsubsidized manufacturers out services are very much free and look. I don't believe that any reasonable britain looking at australia in the way we do things would regard australia as an unfair competitor the she's going to be things like who might try to beef isn't it. <hes> look my psycho but i personally wouldn't get too. I about something like that. Because if you don't want hormone-treated beef down there is a simplicity glistening volume that is we haven't debated a trade deal in the u._k. Or sells for forty odd years and that does mean that there is going to be on on a particularly on food standards animal welfare bodies when gonna be webbie's riles take place but we don't mistreat animals uh-huh mistreat animals in britain but that this is going to be the i mean the tension is going to be around. I look look if you start fretting too much. Don't sweat the small stuff as i say. Why should britain's fret over things like that. If you wanna do a free trade deal you've got to be prepared to accept that. Not everything in your in your partners. Economy is gonna be absolutely the same as yours. I mean if you want if you want to do it that way. Wanna did you vote to leave the e._u. Because that's the whole point of the a you its exact uniformity of everything everywhere but it is i mean it is gonna be a challenge for the british deeply coming out of his system which has worked as you sail looking moody accepting difference viva la difference. What aspect where we intend to import from australia is is your immigration system. Boris johnson has repeatedly said that he wants to kind of essentially copy the australian style point system for migration. What would you you say are the three lessons. Britain should learn from australia organization. Well the first person i think you've already learned and that is strict. Border control although i notice there is a bit of a problem of buds coming across the channel now but certainly for some years now if you have been landing in britain from from anywhere including the a you you've gone through very strict border control. That's the first lesson second lesson is that migrants have got to be able to make a contribution. They've got to join the team and the best way to be sure that migrants joining owning the team is if they have a job from day one. They're paying taxes from day one. They're integrating with they work nights from day one and and that's the key and our point system is supposed to ensure that people are employable from diwan now. It's not perfect. I system system is perfect but i think there is a lot to rigorously that you don't need a job offer. You just need to meet a series of qualifications that show that you in all likelihood get a job job. Once you've arrived there are different elements to our system. There's permanent migration and this temporary migration <hes> to come as a temporary migrant you nee to have a job to go up yeah tacoma's a permanent migrant and and a lot of these people eventually do become permanent migrants but it is possible to come as a permanent migrant not because you've got a job lined up from diwan <hes> but because you made various a <hes> requirements you've got good english. You've got recognized qualifications. <hes> you below a certain age that kind of thing now frankly. I think it would be an improvement to our system if the permanent migrants had a job lined up as well but at the moment it's often the case but it isn't always is so and when you look at the traction of your straightened system to the british petitions fairly liberal minded on immigration basic training experiences you can have a relatively high level of immigration. We've public consent. Yes although even in australia yeah. I think we're starting to push the boundaries of public acceptability. We've been a net overseas migration which is not just permanent margaret sits. Everyone who comes for twelve months or longer and let's face it. If you're gonna be here for more than twelve months. You'll want a house a car and a job so there's downward pressure on wages is up when pressure on housing and there's much more pressure on on roads and public transport so so al net overseas migration has been running at about a quarter of a million a year for the last day kyd it's been running at effectively doubled the level of the howard years and what's the rural population twenty twenty one so at the moment way bringing in perfectly legally under the rules a quarter million any year so in in two years. We'll bring in the equivalent of a city. The size of canberra so arum aggression is running at historically record record levels but you make a very good point. Normally era migration program has had a high degree of public support for for two reasons because we are confident <hes> thanks to things like the point system that the immigration system is working for us and not just for the migrants and second because in the end every australian other than aboriginal people now on an emigrant or the descendants of immigrants and when you've got the immigrant experience as part of your memory you obviously have a degree of acceptance of immigration griped generally so from what you're saying that that does suggest that there might be a limit to how much read across there is from the australian system to hear the more britain copies australia in every respect but what the point system is supposed to do is ensure that people are employable from day one and this should be at the very heart of any sensible immigration immigration system and you would expect was the last couple of australian high commissioners londoners that is they have talk live semi publicly about their concerns about how much horrid is becoming especially the young australians to come home that they felt was beginning to freshen the cultural and and social links as well as economics between those reading u._k. You would hope to see up taken under the system and optic in the number absolutely right absolutely right look. When i was a youngster it was a rite of passage for australians together to england to work to backpack to do whatever and i think that was good for us. It was good for you and i certainly would like to see that continue. I look if a britain wants to come to australia forever but is prepared to join our famous invariably britain's up and is capable typical of holding down a decent job and is not stealing a local job and isn't reducing locals wages. Why not why not we wouldn't the country if that hadn't happened at high levels over the decades so one other aspect of brexit is taking place at a time in which the global balance of power appears to be shifting towards asia and the grain communists. That's one of the arguments brexit but it also chalks up an interesting question as it comes at a time with of confrontation between the u._s. and china increased tensions. One of the big decisions that are made after brexit is what to do about hawaii and the five g. network in the u._k. Australia used to have a very open attitude towards chinese investment and it's called me that appears to be changing. Can you just explain a little bit about why i'm what is driving that decision australia. Well all the security advice that the gillard government got the security advice that my government got the security advice that the terminal and the morrison government scott is that we can't be sure that equipment from this particular manufacturer facture widened some why mike compromise and networks now. I'm not an expert on i._t. And ida know precisely how it is possible to do these things but but people in is vastly more about it than i do and have the best interests of our country at heart were absolutely convinced and i think it it it is important for the five is network to have a common approach to this and i think it's pretty obvious that there has been a degree agree of intellectual theft at agree of <hes> tried exploitation by china. I've many years now and what i think is happening. Lisa's far as president trump is concerned is a bit of an attempt to take china out of the supply apply china. Now i understand that and i think all of us have to be a lot more astute in managing. This particular relationship and you think that is that is obviously going to be a challenge to the global trading system at precisely the moment that the u._k. Is leaving the when you talk about balancing. What do do you think the reaction in asia would be if you k- for example brexit once joined the trans-pacific partnership wonderful why not i mean look britain is a country that people naturally look to <hes>. It's a country that people look up it to. It's a country which threatens now on. It's a country which helps many people a country. That's inspired all and this is why britain has such extraordinary soft power power. This is why britain has sammy friends around the world and the way that china has because for centuries britain has been in a force for good and britain has been there to lend a helping hand and when you look looks from today like a- as this is tuesday morning i should say who is changing more rapidly here. It looks like we're not going to get to brexit without an election. When you look at the recent there is a lot of shad electra knowledge between the liberal party and the conservative party here when you look at the recent liberal federal victory. What do you think the lessons but the consultant here we see he till on you've got to have a very clear message and you've got a very clearly differentiate yourself from the other side odd now it also helps if you're on the side of the people and are on the side of the late so the establishment it also helps if you're gonna put money into people's pockets rather than take money out of their pockets and <hes> i think that if they were to be an election with both the broad message boris get brexit <hes> vied for anyone else get corbin <hes> that's a pretty strong platform on which together the people and do you think the us yourself apart of his trent devoting that center-right parties that they can have electoral bases can appears we can realigning across the the english speaking world there is absolutely night out that <hes> wealthy people attending to become more progressive and working people are tending to become more conservative is no doubt about that and i used to sigh by a member of the howard government and in the as the potty later myself the the way the center right liberal national coalition in australia where the real party of the workers and the library had become <hes> i kind of a grab bag of the grain left <hes> the welfare close and the very wealthy and even that means a can of shift away from the kind of traditional small-state free market economics of a center roy yes and no i've never thought that santa ride gavin instead well when they look like a mindlessly following some economic textbook but certainly you do have to try to keep taxes texas low very importantly. You do have to try to keep regulation. The regulatory burden lied right but traditionally. We've also been the patriotic parties were the parties of support for the armed forces support for the police support for traditional values so so look strong and effective santa ride parties have on the one hand <hes> wanted <hes> <hes> lower taxes smaller government greider freedom but we've also i wanted to save the family thrive <hes> with wanted to. Let's see small business. Flourish have been the party's of small business not a big business and we've wanted to support values and institutions that have stood the test of time. I think in the end the great strength of our parties is that we have never sacrificed the nation state to global institutions. If we have to choose between global institutions and our country we put our country first tha yup. Thank you very much. Thanks jobs.

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