17 Episode results for "Lgbtq Youth"

LGBTQ+ Youth Suicide Prevention

The Psych Central Show

28:50 min | 4 months ago

LGBTQ+ Youth Suicide Prevention

"You're listening to inside mental health. A psych central podcast where experts share experiences and the latest thinking on mental health and psychology. Here's your host gabe howard. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of inside mental health. A psych central podcast. I'm your host. Gabe howard and i wanna thank our sponsor better help you can get a week free just by visiting better help dot com slash psych central call into the show. Today we have dr. Amy green dr green the vice president of research at the trevor project in addition to leading the trevor project's annual national survey on lgbtq youth mental health. Her team publishes multiple research reports per year plus monthly research. Briefs that help inform the work of the lgbtq youth serving agencies and mental health organizations. Dr green welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me game. Great to be here since one thousand nine hundred nine. June has been set aside to celebrate and honor the experiences of the lgbtq plus community since two thousand nine. June has officially been called pride month. And i'm excited to welcome the trevor project to our show to help us understand the unique risk factors that members of the lgbtq plus community face when it comes to suicidality but before we dive into that dr green. Can you tell our listeners with the trevor project does. The trevor project is the world's largest suicide prevention and crisis intervention organization for lgbtq young people and we provide support to youth who are in crisis feeling that they need and accepting person in their life to help them through a challenging time. And so we do this through a number of confidential crisis programs on our platforms such as trevor lifeline trevor chat and trevor text and so those are twenty four seven available. We've for you to reach out to someone at any time that they are in need and we do that again on line and on the phone. That's where youth are often spending their time. We also have the world's largest space social networking site for lgbtq and that is called trevor stage and we have innovative public education advocacy and research programmes. This all works together as a united force to really better support on. Cptv now it sounds like you're saying and please correct me. If i'm wrong at the lgbtq youth have a higher risk for suicide than the national average. Is that true. Yes unfortunately that it's true and it's something that folks suspected for a decent amount of time Just out of anecdotes stories things that they knew stories about bullying and then more recently. So like in two thousand fifteen seventeen nineteen at the federal government. Lateral data was collected and actually showed that compared to straighten suspenders. So those who aren't lgbtq lgbtq youth or more than four times greater risk of attempting suicide in the past year. Let's go to high school youth for example those who aren't lgbtq about five percent of them attempt suicide in any given year and that's in itself is a really high number to think of one in twenty youth in high school when we get the lgbt youth. That number gets up above twenty percent. You suicide is unacceptable and preventable in the first place but now we have a population who unfortunately as a much higher risk why are lgbtq plus youth at a higher risk for suicide. Well there's been a a number of studies done over the years and what it it's really boils down to is that there's not something inherent about being. Lgbtq that increases risk for mental health challenges or considering are attempting suicide. Unfortunately it's the way lgbtq than lgbtq people in general are treated by those who are close to them like rejection from friends and family and other important people in allies by schools and bullying experiences. That may be hostile to them. All the way up to on a societal level experiences of discrimination victimization having policies that prevent them from having equal rights that this is pretty cumulative in it adds up and when we think about adolescents in general. It's a time where we're folks are seeking acceptance so much just looking for people to accept them and to love them as they are shor. Lgbtq unfortunately a lot of those faiths rejection and that can be really painful. What are some of the key. Risk factors for lgbtq plus youth suicide. Are there specific warning signs that differ from the general population. In terms of warning sign. Haven't seen too much research. They talk about different warning signs for suicide and they may be things like talking very specifically about not wanting to be there or making comments about you know people being better off if they were gone things like giving away some of their possessions. Really withdrawing from light not carrying as much anymore. I haven't seen too much. That shows that might differ but the parts that get them to that point are often a bit different for lgbtq youth. One of the most powerful negative risk factors is rejection Particularly as it comes from people who are close to them so their friends and family. That's something that fortunately most you don't have to experience in terms of existing being who they are and they're your friends and family are usually the people who stand up for you and love you the most and having those be the folks who are saying you're wrong. I don't accept this. You can't be this way is is really painful also. Bullying is a problem for you. In general but bowling takes on specific risk when it's related to aspects of the us identity job related to their sexual orientation and gender identity as well as experiences of discrimination and for transgender. And nonbinary you. Those experiences happen in all sorts of places and can include things like not being able to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender. And and it's really a lot of cumulative risk related to how they're treated based on their sexual orientation and gender identity and then also we see a lot about there are unfortunately right now. A lot of discriminatory policies continue to pop up across the country. And we think about youth sometimes as being maybe disengaged from the political process. But they're not they're paying attention and they're they're seeing heat and they're seeing harmful rhetoric about who they are and their identities. Those are all these factors and those are risk factors pretty specific to algae bt q so while the the things to look out for in terms of if a youth might be at risk for attempting suicide look pretty similar the things that get them there or actually different in pretty centered around their identity. Dr green. I know that you lead the research team for the trevor project. And the two thousand twenty one national survey on lgbtq plus youth mental health just came out. I know we can't read the entire thing on this podcast but what are some of the key findings of that survey. Yeah thanks for asking gave this past. Year has been incredibly difficult for so many with everything that happened but we also know that. Lgbtq face some unique challenges are twenty. Twenty one survey was able to capture the experiences of nearly thirty five thousand of those between the ages of thirteen and twenty four. This is our third year doing it. And so one of the things that we're seeing is that we're not seeing large overall changes in terms of the percentage of lgbtq who said they seriously considered side or attempted suicide in the past year. It was about forty two percent share for those who seriously considering the past twelve months in our pastures. It's been around forty so pretty close in terms of suicide. Attempts are overall rates in the past. Couple of years have always been somewhere around fourteen to fifteen percent so seeing some stability. They're not seeing high increases necessarily related to what happened in the past year with the covid nineteen pandemic but one of the things that we did new this year is that when our overall report came out we segmented not just by sexual orientation gender identity each but we we really looked at that data on how it inter-plays between lgbtq identities and use it and that's where some of the findings really start to look more stark. So when i said that fourteen percent overall attempted suicide in the past year it was twelve percent of white youth. That's around her little lower than we've seen in the past years but for our lgbt youth of color thirty one percent for native indigenous youth twenty one percent for black youth twenty one percent for youth. Who had more than one race ethnicity eighteen percent for next youth and then he should guyland or right around where white youth were at twelve percent. But it's it's really important for us to think intersection and that's one of the things. We've really focused our because if we we look overall the message could be Yeah well maybe everybody's kind of doing okay in this. Covert nineteen pandemic. It looks like not too much different from the previous year. But when we really start breaking out we see that there are youth who are struggling more and that really. Our work ends up being. Lgbtq of color and lgbtq who are transgender and non binary who also had much higher risk. One it's an unacceptable level in terms of considering attempting suicide but also that there are segments of lgbtq population who are struggling more on the ends up paralleling the data that we see on risk factors so we have data on discrimination experiences on food and security in the past year on whether or not. They've experience conversion therapy or someone trying to change their sexual orientation or gender identity and these are experienced by those who are transgender and non binary. Lgbt's of color at higher rates. And so we're sort of directly being interplay of some of these risk factors and having greater levels relating to suicide risk. I think in the pandemic one thing. That's been really interesting if the conversation has shifted towards mental health a lot and it's been really interesting and great to see in terms of when we think about de stigmatizing mental health. And all the interesting things that have happened with digital therapeutics and telehealth but In our data we're still seeing big gaps in terms of lgbtq who mental health care and are able to receive it. Most of our sample who wanted mental healthcare weren't able to get it and that's even greater disparities for lgbtq the color in terms of most of those who weren't able to get it. It seems like all of the risk factors that you keep mentioning our societal. There doesn't seem to be any risk factors that are physical attributes or anything like that. It's just the way that our society and culture treat people who are in the. Lgbtq community is at an over simplification. Or is that exactly right. I love that framing when we talk about. We need to get away from this individual ariss inherent to a person and think about this. What's called the social context everything that's happening around them and you're spot on that with. Lgbtq the risk factors that were saying that social context. It's the environment that they're living in when lgbtq provided with support. They haven't affirming space or not having discrimination to do pretty well. It's one of those things where there really needs to be some changes in the way that we treat people in order for for the mental health and the mental wellbeing of this group of youth to start improving back to the two thousand twenty one national survey. You noted disparities across gender and race. Is that still just caused by our society and nothing more you know. Twenty twenty one was a was a rough year for a lot of folks but one of the data points from our survey was that sixty seven percent of black. Lgbtq than sixty percent of asia pacific islander lgbtq reported that they were discriminated based on their race ethnicity. We have some data that we looked at where we broke down ways that you could have been discriminated against based on their sexual orientation based on their gender identity and then based on their ethnicity and i would encourage folks to take a look at the survey when they're able to on our website. But you'll see it's probably one of the most drastic carts that we have on our because you can see the numbers go from when these youth have no instances of discrimination. It's quite low and then it goes all the way up to thirty six percent if they have three different. Instances of discrimination so going from i think seven percent when they say no. I had none of these types of discrimination and remember. I said that that national average was around like five all the way up to thirty six percent. and so yeah absolutely. It's it's compounded. Those youth have multiple aspects of their identity. That they are experiencing rejection discrimination stigma and and unfortunately adds up. I think that the average person can understand that when things go wrong in your life. You're more prone to a mental health issue for example a break-up divorce losing your job financial issues the thing that helps alleviate all those things is support time and understanding grief may be misunderstood but when somebody dies we have ritual surrounding at people. Bring you food. There's there's an understanding from your coworkers. Is it fair to say that. It's sort of like that for the lgbtq community minus all of the understanding and the support. They're just. I hate to use the word. It's just an onslaught of negativity that they can escape from and nobody seems to be looking to resolve some so. And i think it's important when we talk about resilience and and you talked about resilience than adult. There are a lot of youth that we hear from our surveys. We want at my favorite part of the survey especially when. I'm looking at some of the harder to swallow. Data is that we have this really rich quality data where we ask you questions. Like what's help them thrive in their life or what's help them find joy in their life and the sponsor chase overwhelmingly positive for some youth and for other youth. They struggle with figuring out that answer. We've made a lot of progress in the past couple of decades. Lgbtq right so there are a lot of youth where they're supportive environments so some youth for whom this is not a day to day struggle for them. It's celebration it's it's you know we talk about pride. They are proud of their identity. They have a rich community of lgbtq friends of friends who are not members of the ldp community who support them. Those are really doing well but we also have some new to as you described where it's hard when we talk about suicide we often talk about hopelessness and inability to to towards a brighter future. So for those. Yeah i can feel sometimes like there's there's an onslaught of negative news particularly if they're then and a home or school environment where they're not supportive and and that hopelessness is another risk factor for for depression suicide. Unfortunately we'll be right back after worth from our sponsors. Is there something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals. I know managing my mental health and a busy recording schedule seemed impossible until i found better help online therapy. They can match you with your own. Licensed professional therapist in under forty eight hours. Just visit better help dot com slash psych central to save ten percent and get a week. Free that's better. H e l p dot com slash psych central. Join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health. Hey everyone my name is. Rachel star withers and i live with schizophrenia. I'm also the host of inside schizophrenia. A podcast that dives deep into all things schizophrenia featuring personal experiences and experts to help you better understand and navigate. schizophrenia inside. Schizophrenia is a psych central and line media podcasts. and we're available right now on your favorite podcast player. Check us out. And we're back discussing the trevor project's twenty twenty one national survey on lgbtq plus youth mental health with dr. amy green. now. I know that the reason that the trevor project does the national survey on lgbtq plus youth mental health is not just to give us a whole bunch of negative information. It's to help find solutions. Yes it's actually one of my favorite parts to talk about in our survey which is that a lot of times when we talk about. Lgbtq into because it's such a strong public health problem that we have to solve. We think of lgbtq is all being at risk for suicide and well you know maybe the society. There's always that sort of inherently can anyone. The majority of lgbtq are not attempting suicide each year and despite the world not being as fair and as as equals it should be for lgbtq particularly those where lgbtq the color and transcend nonbinary. You there's still a lot of good things happening. And so we have a section on our national survey where we actually pull out of the that they have and and a lot of it is visibility so things like seeing rainbow flags and stickers and public when there are celebrities who are out with pride so lgbtq celebrities who are proud of who they are being connected to other people having schools that support them one of the more interesting ones. I thought that that you've said it helping drive and find joy is something that you know. We started this podcast which is learning more about. Lgbtq history and learning more about the lgbtq community you that can often be a source of strength. And so there's a a lot really that can be done out there in terms of when we talk about the the society in the negative pressures of society announced teach you there are also a lot of a lot of folks in society who are doing really great things sometimes just by being who they are and being visible that are helping bt with the feel better about themselves if the social context is one of the biggest sources of risk for lgbt than the social context is something that we can change and by having more positively around. That's something that can help them. Actually feel better. And as we've mentioned the trevor project does the national survey on. Lgbtq plus youth mental health. So that they can increase access and we'll find ways to increase access. What are some of those ways. That's a great question Unfortunately for lgbtq you there's a a large number of barriers and we talked about mental healthcare to receiving care. When i think about you. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist as well and have been seen youth and working with us for a couple of decades now And i remember in the beginning that the biggest problem with youth mental health was awareness and stigma and getting folks to even acknowledge or no to have awareness that they might be struggling. Anyone who's ever tried to access mental healthcare in the us has probably experienced that challenge of it is not is not a straightforward easy system to negotiate in terms of finding the right provider who accepts the right insurance. Who's accepting client at that time. You know you're able to get to and so for you. This is the barriers that we all know exists in some but they also have concerns about lgbtq competence of providers. There's a lot of fear that. If i find someone they might try to convert me and tell me that i shouldn't be queer. I shouldn't be lgbtq that they'd have to tell their parents and their parents are part of the reason why they're struggling. The rejection from their parents in the first place part of it is getting the data out so that folks with barriers are but also trevor has a public education team in a big part of that is providing training for folks in how to understand. lgbtq identities how to support lgbtq. I think that's really important. Because i believe that there are a lot of well. Intentioned mental health care providers out there with up to be able to support these youth who may not have that knowledge and who may accidentally say something that it's hurtful and harmful or who may you know unknowingly think that they're helping but really provide further discrimination to those youth and so that's a big part of it in terms of increasing their excesses making sure that we increase the pool of folks who are able to serve them and you know that includes both the knowledge but also providers finding ways to let us know that that they are accepting and supportive of those who are. Lgbtq and that includes no safe spaces rainbow stickers ensuring that you know their materials and their website feature folks who are part of the lgbtq community that talk about that as types of individuals who they're looking to serve. And then when i think about youth and access to mental health care The media thing that comes to my mind our schools and so while there may not be a way to provide mental health. Care for every single you through the school. I think our schools are going to need to find some ways to identify you and have referral network. There's some schools that have what are called school based health centers. They actually have medical providers with mental health providers on staff but but particularly we think about if we go back to where this all started. We talk about suicide risk. The key to preventing suicide is to recognize and to refer and so being able to have places like schools that have suicide prevention policies that are specific content on lgbt. To you and how to assess refer to help those use get cares is a big step for our schools. What are some of the protective factors are key ways to prevent. Lgbtq plus youth suicide. That's a really important question for ask when we think about how to help end framing it from a positive standpoint in my first answer to the question is always so because there's so much research supporting it and that is support and affirmation from others when we look at differences in suicide risk among lgbtq to have lots of access to affirming spaces schools their home events in their community And lots of people who affirming support them friends straight friends. Lgbtq friends doctors hospitals that when we look at the data striking one of our data findings found lgbtq. Who have at least one accepting adult are forty percent less likely to report a suicide attempt when i say risk factors rejection is one of the biggest ones on the other sites protective factors. It's acceptance affirmation. It's support it's so crucial. During the adolescence and young adult period other protective factors are having a positive identity and ability to authentically express their identity. We know that positive role models including folks who are in their day to day life. That could be teachers people who are in their churches who are in their community events as well as folks like celebrities and influencers who they follow in social media when they have folks in their lives who are lgbtq invisible. I'm proud of their identity. It helps lgbt youth. Intern feel proud of their own identity and feel comfortable as their authentic self and that is also a protective factor against suicide so finding ways to help you feel accepted and feel that they are able to be authentically them so when we have inclusive policies they also suffer protection function the signifying of what those equality policies meant to them was enough that it in turn reduce the risk for suicide when we can have policies that are supportive that promote equality how those can actually reduce risk. What are some things that our listeners can do to support. Lgbtq plus youth. Let's start with the basics i leading. Lgbtq they know know that they're loved and valued just as they are. That's how you show acceptance and support and we're always encouraging everyone to work to be one of those accepting adults and a young person's life going back to that stat that that lgbtq with at least one accepting adult had a forty percent lower risk of suicide. We encourage folks to find ways to be that person to be that accepting and supporting adult. This also include visible signs of support rainbows safe-space stickers using lgbtq inclusive language. So thinking about the way we talk minimizing using gendered language language that implies a world that is based purely on heterosexual cisgender folks making sure that our language is inclusive. One way that i can do this is to open the space. When they're working with lgbtq expi- including their pronoun. My name's amy green. My pronouns i use are she. Her and i'm the vice president of research at the trevor project. That's how i open. Most of the meetings that i have with folks. It allows the space for someone to say their pronouns without having to be mis gendered in the beginning. I think that it shows folks who are lgbtq that this is a comfortable space. This is someone who's allowing me to speak to be my authentic self paralleling. When i talked about protective factors right. So he's got the visibility acceptance. Let's go to the other part. Which is the ongoing fights for quality and lgbtq community particularly for transgender. And nonbinary youth for those who are who are able to who are in a position to speak out against some of these harmful initiatives trying to ban transcend nonbinary youth from participating in sports from using bathrooms that are appropriate for their gender identity. That all of those. We're able to be in a place where we can support politicians who core not following those types of of policies but also vocalized the port for these youth to say you know. These policies are wrong. This is harmful this is going to harm you particularly us in who are in the in the mental health field. There's a number of places in which policies come up that we know are in direct opposition to the evidence base on what is good and what is bad for mental health and so speaking out finding a place where we're able to say this is harmful. You're you're going to harm us both to hopefully have an impact on those policies but also because listening you are listening all of the time even for things like politics and political decisions. But i think sometimes so think like. Oh well they have. They have other things that they're falling they're listening. We one of our scott's that we use from our survey year every year the percentage of youth who stay that politics negatively impacted their mental health. We had our highest number of the shared unfortunately ninety four percent of lgbtq who said that recent politics had negatively impacted their mental health or since himself and wellbeing a really high number and so for each of us to do what we can to counter. That message should whether it's in person or on your social media accounts. Lgbt youth are listening and they're looking for messages of support and care doctor. Green thank you so much for being here. We're can folks find the two thousand twenty one national survey on lgbtq youth mental health. And of course. Where can they find the trevor project. Thankfully they can find them at the same place on our website. The trevor project dot org there will be on the landing page a link to our national survey. We have a pretty cool microsite where they can go on an explorer findings as a pdf and that is also the starting point for all the other information including our resources as well as a place for lgbtq used to reach out for help and for folks to learn more about how they can help lgbtq you and listeners. Please keep in mind that the trevor project dot org o. r. g. Thank you to all of our listeners for being here my name is gabe howard and i'm the author of mental illnesses an asshole and other observations as well as a nationally recognized public speaker. Who would love to be at your next event. You can grab a signed copy of my book with free swagger. Learn more about me just by heading over to gabe. Howard dot com wherever you downloaded this. Podcast please follower subscribe to the show. It's absolutely free. And if you have a minute review the show tell other people why they should be listening. I will see everybody next thursday on inside mental health. You've been listening to inside mental health. A psych central podcast from health. Line media. have a topic or get suggestion. Email us at show at psych central dot com previous episodes can be found at psych central dot com slash. Show or on your favorite podcast player. Thank you for listening.

trevor project Dr green gabe howard Gabe howard Amy green dr green trevor project's annual nation dr green trevor lifeline schizophrenia united force amy green trevor
HR 1: Selfie Monday

Afternoons with Marcellus & Kelvin

46:10 min | 4 months ago

HR 1: Selfie Monday

"All right momo. I'm gonna let you have the floor here and respond. This shot across the bow got. That's all you got that's it that's all that's all you can find. I did a week radio with you and the only thing you got knocked me for is that i think to show that i'm listening when people are talking. That's it. yeah. I'm living okay then. Mace was Was ornery today. He took a shot at everybody except me today. Although i'm sure that will come soon that sorry. Yeah you're asking for it. I mean he shot a cap for retweeting compliment. This yeah i'll say this l z. I'm not generally to you just said I'm i'm not generally a guy that don't even tweet that often anymore period. Unless i'm watching a game but i mean occasionally it is nice to re tweet a compliment twitter's so vile most days that it is nice to just occasionally say like. Hey someone says nice stuff now. Every day i mean it's a different strategy but you know whatever. Listen i don't care. He gets all upset because people actually take the time to texas a nice tweet us. A knife flew to note there. Td him nice nuance to tend to your own guard and start worrying about our vegetables. Were good oh that's a great saying right there. Ten to your own guarded. Momo not acceptable. Say back say that nope. I should say that. There's a filtered my. There's a filter. Look when i used to re tweet a compliment here and there. And then i myself consciousness got the better of me. I was like now. I'm not gonna do that. You know that just seems like i'm too. I'm trying too hard or whatever it is but the truth is everything you put on. Social media becomes part of how people know you and so if you want people to see you as as like people like her like. They don't always realize that the richard compliments right so well versed compliment to complement ratio. That i like to correct. That's right for every ten to fifteen compliments you send now. You're allowed to retreat one of your own. So i'll say this you know used to reach me. Compliments all the time in this radio station. Oh he's own. Where did i know that name from used to work here. Oh what's he that. Baugh fellow with the broom. No i'm talking about garner. you know the janitor. The one in the bag always so nice. Oh no no no not that guy when he worked here he had a lot less kids. Now he's got a lot of kids used to re tweet couple of it's all the time. See picking on him. I keep a positive players. I'm sure there's that too. I guess that's an survive only a kicker in college so the the nfl the way you the way you can slyly be retweeting. Compliments is if you just somebody says. All of those great story loved the show. You can respond to everyone if you say thanks really appreciate that people who have notifications for you to see the thank you. And then they'll be like okay so that people love that story or whatever it is like i used to do that right stories and i tried to replied and i realize that people have notifications we just like seventy five notifications me. Say thanks really. All of a sudden people notifications thought like something big really went down. I do as i say thanks. I'll reply to a couple. But i'm like ny p of them or just hit the like button because otherwise it's just like too many like seventy five notification seriously ramona's stop well to kind of do a release sometimes do anyway is that i forgive myself for retweeting. Compliments or bulletins. Whatever because i engage with people who don't agree with me all right so it's like i'm not all about just i'm being right or at me. Look at me look at me. 'cause someone doesn't like a take or something i had to say and they hit me up as long as they're being respectful out engage with them so i feel as long as i do that kind of stuff. Then i'm okay with re tweeting something to yeah. I agree with that. I think you're right. I think there's so much negativity on social media that it's nice to like sprinkle in some of the compliments. 'cause the truth is you mostly only hear from the negative people really like i think they to negative the positive to negative things actually probably split fifty fifty but like in terms of what our perception is. We just see the negatives than most people just. We tweet me things. Although twitter's really good job at least with my feed for mostly filtering out the nasty stuff. I don't i don't know about you guys but i've adjusted some things on twitter and the their filters work. Okay not tear not great but okay satisfactory. I just go through days. Where i just go. No today satan. I'm not doing me social media like yesterday yesterday. I put my phone down just like you know i'm good. You know his father's day today out the juneteenth is pride going on. Yeah yup good yeah. That's an issue. I think social media has become for all of us who've been way in the spotlight of of it right when we get in the crosshairs up. Sure you get a lot of. I mean meant i don't know we just go underground. And the truth is is like get so negative with him but i i realize i only negative if you give it power only if you opted you ogden. Start engaging the now has power view you out. So kaplan does re tweet a lot. But he also tastes a lot of sell fees and. I don't know it feels. Selfie game is actually good though like is it good like hold on. Let me ask like the younger people on this show. Mora is kaplan selfie game. Good for national selfie. I mean i saw the one they posted. It was nice. He was out. You know it was good. Okay okay. I trust you on these things. Some of them in you know but the one. Oh one did he. Spn posted today was good. Oh that's very nice greg. so greg unit. Well we know we re making fun of your picture the other day. So we know. You're not a selfie. I know i am not a selfie person whatsoever. So i'm the wrong person to ask. Laura was the right person there. Don't i mean he's you know. He's looking over the ocean in selfie picture. So you know it's okay. I like i like southeast them. I think it's nice. And i think it's a nice way to commemorate because you can stop yourself as a lot of people wanting to share with you. You're out games came you do that. People want people you won the when you're out you know people's wanted to take a picture. Yeah yeah yeah. I thought you were saying like when i'm out do i take yourself no. I don't do it myself really. Yeah yeah yeah. I think it's a nice thing to like. That's a nice way of interacting. But i also think that there are really unfortunate itself. I could take him by people who don't know the rules of how to take a selfie. And i think the law right those blanks. What these ruins the rules is. Kate absolutely could not have any alcoholic beverages in the shot. If i take picture with u k or anything embarrassing because that's bad look for me. I can't do this. And i don't wanna have to ask so just an appropriate setting okay re to do not too close to where my husband sees this photo. He's gonna be like who is that guy. God i mean at least now with a mask on. It's not so bad right But there's also the way that you need to frame a selfie like you're supposed to hold it up your hands above your so that you're shooting down at eagle okay. Because that's how you look good in selfie shoot up. It's like now i got. I got fortunes fortune. What are we doing here. We're trying to make ourselves look good and we need to use a raise. Your hand up high enough to do that. Do you need to worry them like you. Just don't care wants to the air. Yeah and we do not like. We're using a nice selfie. Eli generally now. We do kind of social distance l. fees and that's a whole nother thing right but we don't need to have our whole body in the selfie it just needs to be like like shoulders up shoulders up. Put your hand up high and aimed down my right. Laura this is how you have to take a flattering photo. She there she doesn't. That's what you take. A flattering photo. You should have like that angle. The angle has all about angles right all. Look some people are like damn you look so skinny. Y'all good ingles okay. I do not get too close. And if you're like if you're kinda faded or whatever like gross with me or to smell your alcohol breath whatever his like. I've definitely had the like people pull you in a selfie and it's kind of a squeeze like an extra too much of a squeeze that's that's how no. Yeah that's a no no But i will say for momo. Yeah then no squeezing squeezing To me not even the teasing out of this lease get the teasing something. Funny we could do it like more of a funny pose. But i married woman. I have a toddler cheesy tease jovial. Not see you the one. I would just say county tech. She's like married women. Don't you dare make me. No because he as like my husband is going somewhere weird. He's going to see it. You know He's i thought he was your side piece. Remember i know that was speaking to sell fees. There was a video selfie today. Taken by las. Vegas raiders defensive. End carl and he came out of the closet today and he announced a one hundred thousand dollars donation to the trevor project to suicide prevention organization for the lgbtq youth Pretty big moment for an active player z in the nfl. Michael sam did it pre-draft but to have someone in that league to do it Wildfire an active player. A pretty big step. I would say no or history says yes. I mean you frame perfectly. I mean michael. Sam will definitely a big story but he was pre-draft and drafted and played you know in the defunct preseason but never actually made it to sundays and you know. We've had wade davis beyond the practice squad. I can go down the list of guys who have touched league or came out once. They've left early but never a guy to come out while still very much an active player in the league. So carl has done something that a week ago i do not think was possible and no one actually who listens to our show. I thought this was possible. Not cap not sodano. Greg not laura listeners. I'm now going to vegas. I know i know. I know that i said i would. I hate vegas. I won't go to vegas thing stinks. Vegas is awful. Ramona was they. Were dragging hate vegas. But dammit carl going to vegas an apparent. We're gonna watch a raider game going times. Because i need to make sure that you know you're not alone and the the coming out part when you're a public figure who the first wave is hard but you also have the support we're right there. Hr ce trevor project. Everybody's ready to go. We're ready to fight for you. But then we go away you just you and then you gotta manage life and the protective shield is gone but the antagonize is still there. So i hate vegas paloma people so i guess guess i gotta get to vegas times season we go. No i know we came out. What else do that's true. We gotta go support. Come next year your call you a raider fan now with me. Oh come on. Join momo post. Let's do you wanna come to watch the raider game with us at the ruling. A try that on. Try that on arena. It's the long a komo coming out as a long hard process. Don't force me out of this raider clausi yet. I just found. I know all serious. I'm going to get there as often as possible. because it is important representation matter but so does support so I think it's a great point about you. Know being there after the initials phase right. Because that is that's the hard part initial part is hard and you get a lot of attention But it's when everybody goes away and we're still now you know. I don't know how we feel about the phrase in the closet okay. But there's a reason why people stay in the closet in the sense that it's comfortable there right. There's a safety there. Because you've got things set up where you don't have to with What he's going to have to deal with now and hopefully it's all good okay but once once you come out. It's not just like okay. Open the door. Close the door like you're out. There's no there's no protective support system around anymore. You know in his and you can go to his instagram. I think you're gonna to look it up here or whatever but pretty sure. It's just called his name and he talks about having the support of his family and friends. And then there's a. There's a post that he has brothers by the way. L z that play in the league as well. His brother's the backup quarterback for the giants. I i was. I was going to say that. Apparently it appears as the raiders. New information for a while right that this isn't something that he told them you know yesterday right before the polls is seems he's been well supported even within the league even if it's just a small circle and we all have no those stories of guys being out which is among small groups of people not entirely consuming not the world. Maybe that was the circumstances for him but whatever it was. He felt safety in that locker room which out of everything that we talk about. What this story knowing that he felt safe now locker room. That's yeah that's hundred percent agree for sure. All right this portion got to win. Know exactly gonna let them off the hook because now they don't win the super bowl like already had a team so now we a they won't kadota dog just so you got to wear a dog. Gonnit ram this portion of the show is presented by alignment health pledging health. Care one person at a time. Hey coming up next greg. How much money do we have to give away for. Cast a big lot today right. Yeah if you get the right guy on the dodgers at six hundred dollars if you get the right guy in the right inning. Twelve one dollars so stick stick around. Listen during the commercial break for the cuticle and you can win either. Six hundred twelve hundred dollars if he picked the right person. We'll do that. Plus we'll look back a game. One between clippers and suns. Thank you christopher. We have our bash for cash contested. Today big big money bryant unter from la is with us. Brian how are you. I'm doing great. How you guys off. Good brother all good. So here's the deal. This is how it works. We need you to pick a dodger player to hit a homerun. And then tell us what ending. You think they'll do it. If you predict the correct player you win six hundred bucks but if you predict the correct player and the correcting you win twelve hundred dollars. Here's the catch though. If we don't have a correct prediction today folks. That are listening right now. Tomorrow's cash prize goes up to seven hundred fourteen hundred respectively. But i'm brian. You're going to win. So give us your prediction. We and which inning. I'm going to go with my man t justin turner the fourth. Okay justin turner in the fourth inning so bryant hunter from la picks justin turner in the fourth inning. Brian good luck bro. Will put you on hold. Okay thank you guys appreciate you sir and make sure to listen tomorrow with for fifteen we'll have another bash for cash contested especially things to owning bringing safety and simplicity to refinancing your home visit only dot com for more information. Today i love this little lounge. Music almost never been here for the lounge music. After benjamin cash driving around i listen to you guys know i listen to you guys when i'm driving around. And i think the lounging music usually it's like rush hour driving someplace and i. I don't know i. It's good for me like i feel like i fall asleep a little bit on freeway. So when it comes onto it up it brings some Some calmness is what else he said. Would you like an olive with your martini. I do this again. Where my filter. This is where my filter and was to be like no. I always like a dirty martini. I always when i order but yeah but then you're going to drop for the time. I'm on the radio martinez charity. I like lower my voice right dirty dirty as you can right. I mean they. Just laura get get laura i juice. I would like as much juice as you have on looking. We got stop here. We're for b. straight straight star No problem that's true. I haven't ordered him ritchie in a while. But when i do right there. that's true. That is too funny but never looked me the same way he's like. Oh snow like this. Wholesome mom y'all got a wild side that speaking of wild side. Nba playoffs boy. Wasn't that's a. that's a while side there so yeah so let's do it this way. Let me let me ask you e Now you we talked about this a little bit the other day about the young lions but the young are going to be front and center here in one way shape or form. I don't know if if i'm the nba. I'm thrilled about the eastern conference. Like i'm okay with the west. Certainly but i look at this now and the way. It is unfolded we are going to potentially see. And i know clipper fans. I've been on your bandwagon z. As you know for awhile here. I picked every series to this point that he has. But i picked against in this series. It is seven four after devon. Cook them on. Oh no it was before. Seven was the original pick. Would you want to see that. Devon donovan matchup. Man told you that's what you really want to see. No no no. No no. No i did not. I did not. I did want the clippers to get there. I wanted them to get to the conference finals. But without kawhi. And momo can tell us about that situation Without kawhi of winning if they were gonna win any game it was going to be game one. I didn't yeah. If they didn't do it. I don't feel great. I know ties at adjustments and all the stuff we've talked about before. I just think this team has been really dominant for the most part they have they have been and the more they begin to jail together and build competence the less staining. It is for me to look back and go. The lakers had a two one lead against his team and then off because the wheels fell off because of injury. When we were when our top tier players were healthy enough to play. Because i'm not saying they were healthy healthy enough to play. Well we want and in every seat is sons. Go out and sweep denver. And i don't know what they do clippers but like they get bad intentions home. I just go. I could have been i run. What is not and this is a different story and it is a fantastic story. Because you've got money. Williams you got chris paul and then you guys are no. I've been talking about the young cats and book i. I'm having a hard time calling him a young cat now because the bigger the stage the bigger he performs. That's not young cat behavior. And i don't know what trae young is out there doing. Because that a young cabbie. He's twenty two damn years. Oh momo he should not be doing this yeah the thing with trae is he has been the smallest guy on the team for his whole career so he has this like. I'm going to show you mentality. He has this. Like i mean. would you yesterday. When he made that shot and he started doing the push ups in the middle of game. I was like you know what like other people. If they did get slapped like they will get in trouble like people get upset with that like and then his whole mentality of like. I'm a stick to you. Believe that this little guy's beating you like. He just does that and he's been like that and then i think it's rubbed off in his whole team like john collins from the hawks showed up to his press conference wearing a shirt of him. Stone embiid these wounds are still raw aboard the shirts and maybe the next round of the day after but like that day girl. Ooh what vendor service you have. But wu making money i know i mean. Part of me is part of me. Likes the trash talk. I like it when people get into. It gives us something to talk about. Makes gains a little more fun. This sportsmanship side of me wasn't a fan of that. T shirt a mike. When with grace. You know. Louis i know i get it but you know this is like take the win you know i know i know. Look to catch a body remember. It's rare to catch bodies in the league. Now because dues out there shooting threes oughta time even the big man or talking or listen. And i told you about dairy not hall. Come on. I don't told you about here told you george since since the day. He was drafted. Have i changed george. You have not. You have not but dared by actually you right gearbox should be insulted because he also store two points at some point during those elimination gains. He would have scored ten points at some point. He took sixteen damn shots. He did shoot. He just didn't make any of them and then the ones that he didn't shoot were particularly bad defended ended. Ben simmons a ton mobile what your dunk attempt and bastard giambattista able in the corner. Who was like what this is coming. Why do i have this. I was like what i literally screened. I was at my friend's house. Okay yeah it was me him and his wife. Watch the gap. And i jumped out of my chair on his sofa and said what are you doing. I have so much sympathy for him. Because i went through something similar like this year. Yeah throwing a ball I used to have a really good arm. And then they got me thinking about my throwing motion right so i would like they re it was something about how ice released the ball and how it spends then i never used to think about how it throw as soon as they got me thinking about how i threw that i was thinking about how i throw the ball. It's like that whole syndrome and it's so difficult and i knew my teammates. They were just. They were patient with me cared about me. They were encouraging. But everybody was like just throwing the damn ball look seriously. Can you just get over this already. This has years like years. And i would read. Every sport. psychology there was ahead strategies for overcoming. It never goes away. Once that hits you it never goes away even playing slow pitch softball out there in my beer league and i still think what they're on the ball. Sometimes i'm like let me that is. That's why i'm worried about him. Like once it becomes this of the thing really hard to undo it. I would love to just kind of chat with people because there's plenty of people here who listen to this show that have played sports at a pretty high level even great high school players players who have probably gone through similar things. Like whether it's what. Simmons is going through nick anderson. One win yeah right. Chuck dob block of famous keel. And god knows we've seen plenty of episodes of tennis players great and small gibson there serve. I mean we saw and get the gifts on her serve. Yeah so so. Eight seven seven ten years. Bring it here for a second. We'll we'll get your thoughts on that. Has it ever happened to you. Plus over rated underrated all next here on ten. Espn back in three minutes. Thank you very much chris. And we'll it is a new week so everybody has their get at a jail. Free card included can't so let's start with birthdays like always in l z always starts off the birthdays. So we're going to go chris. Pratt or juliet. Lewis overrated underrated. Juliette lewis say say chris. Pratt is underrated. that yeah i agree with you. Elsie having chris pratt. Louis woody. harrelson wasn't even that Killers yeah great. Movie great movie no no. I don't think that she. I think that when people think. Chris pratt they faint of goof and humor and they should right but he's he's a layered actor and performer. And i i've seen him Chances and i would like to see more of those chances. Because i think he's overrated in his acting o. R. rated. I think yeah. I think he's under. I think he's really good. I think he actually can play a lot of different roles. And he's seen is this like action star guy. But i think he can be much more diverse by the way speaking of diverse. Did you sasha baron cohen. Have you seen him in this thing. The spy noli. Yes in credible. Great really good dramatic actor. Yeah did not maria. i'm gonna. I'm gonna agree with those momo what's next all right sodano. We miss this last week. But brad stevens has made his first move as gm of the celtics seal later kemba walker and on his way back to boston is al horford as kemba walker goes to okay see in a salaried them is this move overrated underrated which part of the celtics the celtics aspects of it. I would say it's i would say it's underrated. Ala's liked their He left obviously for philly and that hasn't worked out. He played much better in. Okay see until they wanted to sit him because they were losing games where they wanted to lose games. But i thought he played pretty well. He's not the guy he was when he was there the first time. But he's a you know. I don't want say shell. But he's some semblance of that. They could use a adult in that locker room. In my estimation he certainly provides that so while. i don't think he's going to be the al horford of four years ago from a production standpoint. I think he can help them. In certain ways so i would say underrated. I'm gonna say oh. I think it's underrated in the sense. That i think al horford was like out all the basically just told him. Take a seat. Like this. your sabbatical you don't have to play. You're in oklahoma city. We don't actually want to win. So please just sit out and be nice guy and he was like okay. Skip out here after this year. Because i do feel like having the rest of my career Always great boston. he will do they. They've needed a great much. Better front court than ever since they let him go right. Well i don't think they let him go. I think he just left but they've needed somebody who can stop do something with joel embiid or any other guys in the in the post. So that's that's a good move for them. Do you think it hurts them. A little bit though because they signed kemba walker that big deal other free agent who was their first region that they signed into law in a while and also doesn't usually get free agent so they're like yeah. It doesn't help. I think it's underrated in the sense. That i'm now curious to see what kimble's flipped for. Oh no question yeah. So that's the part of me. That tina's underrated. I don't really care what happens in boston. I really don't although i do like al. I don't know if you know. Elza greg i've been in like trouble your work out. I know how he's a great guy. But i don't care what happens to boston. This is about what happens. Next will kemba. Because i think he's probably gonna stay west and that may have a domino effect. I think they've do. You think they flip them for more draft picks. Oh well well. Draft picks. A young player may be appropriate. If there's another traffic's all. I mean they have seventeen through twenty twenty seven roster spots when you do the baby got a hold on trade up but i mean there's also you know the conversations of we don't know what's going to happen with dame so we don't know me part of a three team deal. We don't know what's in here. We don't know what's gonna happen there. Domino effect they do have a crapload of pigs. But i. it's how flipped. Kimba i think is the decision that impacts the lakers. More so than what the celtics did they're going to want a shea. Gilles alexander type back for kemba and and some paper cam buck not not maybe not a player of that caliber but a young prospect and epic is my guess that somebody give them that some team that like needs another guard the probably as he he's hurt ally and he has a knee. That's not gonna get yeah. It was very durable up among those. He's six feet tall right. That's the problem with kimba rice. Xp talk play like he's six ten. Yes depending there's a team out here in los angeles actually two teams here in los angeles. That could use a point guard. The sankei rally is l z. But you didn't want him to small likes dudes little do i saw lauren right small dudes that she is she's she's being put it this way. Jazz missed that shot. It wasn't a defense did. I didn't even see. Oh dude underneath. Oh man who holiday katie needs to have size shoot smaller and he'd be a game over. Yeah next what's next greg. All right momo. Few expect at the pga championship. Bryce into shambo got into brooks kept goes interview and it really really bothered. Kepco will descend bowed. Did it again last. Us open he jumped up and throw his hands in the air in the background while being interviewed again. Is this troll. Job by the shambo rated or underrated My aunt my usual answer would be underrated because we see this engulf. Very much But i've said underrated for everything so say overrated. Because at the end of the day gulf isn't really one of those sports we have rivalries. There's no contact in a trash hog. You're not supposed to be quiet when people are shooting stuff. So it's songs can build you a hard fallon that's great I like it because of that. I think he's the anti golfer now. He's not having more golfer but he's kinda like grunk in in a way. You know what i mean. So i'm okay with him Being that brooks kept takes himself very seriously. So i like the fact that he's screwing with that guy of all people do so. I'm gonna underrated because i liked. Just the the nonsense of it. I'm gonna say his underrated just because anything. Come out golf. Besides sorry what was i talking about. Yeah oh wow. You didn't get excited with with jon. Rahm didn't get aside interest. Is you know what is activity. That i can appreciate. I know it's very very difficult to do It just isn't my thing. That's all right. Okey doke that is overrated underrated. All right let's get to the calls year to second. We were talking earlier about ben. Simmons and his hips. Have you ever had the hiccups. Have you ever had a mental block. Has something ever whether it's athletically academically at your place of business where you've just been like bro. I'm fried. I can't believe i can't do what i normally can do. Or what i normally should be able to do. Eight seven seven seven ten. Espn eight seven seven. Seven three seven seven six plus coming up next as well We gotta get to the dodgers padres is. Does it still have the juice. Now that the padres have kinda slid back a little bit. I would say yes and i'll tell you why in just a moment We so there's two things we need to get to before we get right into the calls. There's people on hold if you want to jump on at eight seven. Seven seven ten. Espn eight seven seven. Seven seven three seven seven six. Let's start with the music and work our way backwards to the rejoin. This is david hasselhoff. Now yeah play it. Laura click craig virga. It sounds like a razor a little bit man. These lyrics are erase it. Can we do that. This show david yeah. Released released his third studio album looking for freedom thirty two years ago today. June twenty-first and eighty nine. We know dirk nowitzki. Big david hasselhoff David was big in germany. His music was very big germany I remember during those. Nba finals The fans would have pictures like those. Those cutouts of david hasselhoff all over the arena. Actually kind of funny But yeah hoffman. listen. I love nightrider as a kid. He'll always be michael night to me. That's the way i look at it. So oh i never understood the fascination sort of like how did that happen. But then i look up down john. Don johnson hit singles. I guess you know her yeah. He's very he strains a lot. Don johnson lord. Patrick swayze had an album tactics. We did awesome. She's like the wind was a good song saw i. I don't know if the whole albums no pitched ballot like. She's like the fire. She's at the earth she's like to wind. Yeah yeah recipes. Patrick swayze gone too soon. Is this don johnson. Now this is the went. Oh this is patrick swayze. Yeah it's also. They had the video that can be set to dirty dancing. Yeah come on now through threes. Oh that's a lyric that your next piece. All i know gotta be what late. Eighties eighty seven. Yeah yeah she doesn't time. Oh he swords there. We soar breath in my face or body close to me. Nope don't do it. Look in her rounds comes to note. She's adema lee just a fool to believe. I think the background singers. We're thinking that day. Oh man he is. That's why we're kind of industry. Is this yeah background. Singers are good. They're good singers really good singers. And it's just because nobody can market them such such a terrible terrible predicament to be like i know. Have you guys seen that documentary. Like one of the things like six feet from fame or something like that. Oh anyway anyways about some of the great background singers like of all time and the interview like a whole slew of them lisa fischer who actually won a grammy when she did a single as allow artists and then she went back to do background luther vandross and is really really fascinating but the thing that i click cracking up about. There are some songs that we love only because of the background. Singers right like mike hammer. Oh yes was about the background singers. Yeah right peter. Gabriel your fine and dandy. But it's the background sater's can you imagine the background singers on american idol. Like you have to like. You're probably a really good singer to get up there with one of the on american idol. Pretty good but without like in the early rounds and you've got to sing background for some fourteen year. Old kid is john. S what does this. Don johnson heartbeat. This is terrible. Patrick swayze this still hit the top ten top ten. I think something like that. Wow can you imagine if you're the song writer who wrote this. We're going to give your son to don johnson suman. You just like at that care. Just anybody they recorded. Oh here we go like every eighty song i've ever heard. Oh yeah it's thirty six number. Seventeen l z number. Seventeen i throw the top ten hit only top twenty ban though the worst ever as a singer is not even close. Who here's brosnan mama. Mia anything worse. Yes actually yes there is. Did you not see. Les mayors with russell. Crowe didn't see. Yeah that's true. That is that's worse when you just blame the agent. What made you think it was a good idea. Put your hathaway won the oscar for not laughing in the movie. I go russell preceding laura. Let's go to the roads leading in. What letting. George listen to new york george because you on it man from the you shoot the game when it comes talking about the clippers just as basketball fan and i'm gonna tell you something l z. I'm disappointed. I thought you were paid with your take about people concerned. They wanna see booker and mitchell. Now i live in barbershops shops and i literally black com- you know we talked about seeing donovan mitchell because the playoffs about grown men battle a the last ten championships were twenty nine years old so the story and there was five story when the clippers one on friday. The first was the the the team was owned by racist and it was taken over by much more but now they were Community minded owner bomber and against the backdrop of june team. We have now tiny being crowns. Probably when the best coach in the nba. Okay then you've got the story of people. Wanna know will paul george be able to read may or reclaim his image. And we claiming you got that story. Then you've got your young story you got to. Man wasn't even drafted in the first round. Came out put him. Were on jets and talking about your baller baller before. I love the fact that george never chased off by that. Because i'm nicely the two and they both problems you guys. I'm six pounds. You could probably cook do. I'll tell you that's not the story. You missed the story as journalists about what happened quickly. I'm as would you as i mean i. You're entitled to your opinion though the younger guys say the wrong with that though. There's no pushback it's all good. That's that's the beautiful thing about the lead. Yeah you can plug in wherever you fit in. He he's talking. About paul. George and the clippers and that's all finding dandy and at no point. Did i say that was not a story. What i said was i prefer to see beyond ballers. And while he's in comedy clubs and he's barbara shots. So am i am barbara shots on the basketball court. And other places where people who love ball congregate and when you check twitter. And when donna's ball now. I do believe the league is responded. Is it not so. I feel confident in what i said. And i'm sure he feels confident in what he said no beef. I don't need to defend. He's got his opinion. I got my. I'm true to and we all saw donovan. Data in that game seven. We all saw book date in game one so you tell me if you wanna see him ball against each other or not i would say the one thing we should mention and he brought up was terence mann mostly because we i wanna make fun of bergman firm literally going got talking about last week at some point and in a meeting which we added him for and Yeah yeah we did. We added On your point yeah always. You're always outta me for something but yeah it was a bigger point all around but it's fine that's did you were you okay. When terrorists man was balling again. Like where you were using good player and it was never anything. But i don't wanna spend time like breaking downturns man break it down. We just got right. That was the point. Not not anything about him. I covered that game six. And when i had to ride my lead my story i wrote about parents man like all. I know. it's a national story with the you know the national story was. Everybody was watching this game. And it wasn't paul toward and it wasn't marcus morris. Or you reggie jackson it was. Terry's mann everybody member deck low tweeted something like a man gets fifty. Let's all do shot trigon shots. We got close. He's in the wrong man. How old is four. Three nine to easily involved with donovan. A twenty four. He's twenty four twenty. Four c c mo so funny because the caller players and i was just curious because never mind burma. What he's just bastard. I'll just still listening. It's all good. Listen here's the thing about the thing that i love now about this particular phase of the postseason. Can you tell us on the other side. Yeah okay do we have. We have someone on the line. Laura tell this man. Dennis not to go anywhere because he. He claims to be a hypnotherapist for sports anxiety. Okay ooh i wanna hand at all right. So i want to hear from him to and i want to hear from you. We're gonna do that on the other side plus what you need to know. So we're back in two and a half minutes. Hey what's up everybody. This is l z. Granderson here to tell you about my new podcast. Adc audio called life out loud. This show all about preserving the history and honoring the contributions of the lgbtq community each week. I'll talk to some of the most fascinating people paving the way toward a more inclusive world. These conversations can get heavy but this show is also to be filled with so much joy. And i mean after we are called gay people right so gotta be some happiness in there somewhere checkout life out loud with me. L z granderson. Wherever you get your podcast.

justin turner vegas sodano greg clippers kaplan selfie twitter laura Vegas raiders trevor project to suicide prev Michael sam dammit carl kemba walker al horford celtics kadota Laura
FOF #2811  Out in the Cold

Feast of Fun

1:03:01 hr | 2 years ago

FOF #2811 Out in the Cold

"This holiday season thousands of LGBTQ youth are out in the cold because they were thrown out of their homes when they came out or outed to their families to combat. This problem the Chicago charity already. Care for friends is inviting folks to spend the night in tents out in the cold in the middle of February to raise money to support homeless. LGBTQ TODAY JD. Miller homeless youth activist and chairperson for Care For friends a nonprofit serving all homeless people with an emphasis on. LGBTQ youth joins us to talk about the complex nature of what it takes to motivate people to give not just during the holiday season but all year long plus is it okay. The share your charitable donations on social media. Oh balls a bone marrow. Transplant recipients sperm is one hundred percent a DNA match to his is donor and the conflict over Democratic presidential candidate. Pete booty judges volunteering for the ovation. Army I'm Fausto Fernow it also marked fillion and this is feast of fun. Feast defined is made possible because of fabulous people. Like you for the past us. Fifteen years our microphones hard drives mixers and cables have fearlessly been recording podcasts with thousands of legendary. LGBTQ artists right. Now we need your help to save fees to fund. Two of our microphones are broken. Our equipment and our website had it and are in urgent need of repairs or to continue antennae. This holiday season please consider stuffing your stocking with beasted by you'll do go fund me dot com slash save feast of fun and pledge edged any amount today thank you. Christmas is here and almost half of all homeless youth identify as Lgbtq this holiday season thousands thousands of young people will be left out in the cold because they were thrown out of their homes outed or came out to their unforgiving families our guest. Today is the chairman of the Board for care for friends a nonprofit that caters to homeless people with an emphasis on youth in a very exciting and interesting way. Welcome to the fun. Jt Miller his name out here Jd. You're a longtime listener. The show yes and water and supporter. And you started listening to this podcast when you were in the closet. Yes I did. When fees fees the fund kind of helped you find your voice as a queer person? Absolutely I think I think you guys create a community a safe space for people to learn about new and scary ideas and so I think I think we're born gay and I was probably gave my whole life but had an admitted it to myself yet. So you're a great place to start exploring that before I had to go out in the world. World Explorer live and in person. So we're like the kiddie pool before you don't sized pool and Goodlatte absolutely just splash. Jacuzzis getting your warm. So tell me about care for friends is interesting idea of fundraising for homeless. People and Homeless Youth is that you invite people sort of the the same way that they raise money for AIDS with marathons to experience what it's like to be homeless by camping out on the lawn of your organization. Yeah so you described it exactly right. I think we're always looking for interesting ways to get people interested in an idea and with the issue of Homelessness Homelessness. One of the things we talked about is what is it like to actually be homeless and so we looked at the calendar. We've picked one of the coldest days of the year February twenty first and we said what would be like if we had to sleep outside. Now we know in you and your listeners and my friends really don't want to have that true authentic homeless experience so we set up a bunch of tents on the lawn this year. We'll pitch Two hundred tonnes. We'll have campfires and hot beverages and s'mores and things ring mattresses and fire entertainment lots. That's a bonfires. Yeah so IT'S A. It's a nice kind of camping experience. If it's too cold you can go right inside our building and we've got heated bathrooms and places to sleep but does does that defeat the purpose though. Like 'cause you're trying to get people a sense of what it's like to have no resources and to be out in the cold but you're making comfortable for them to to participate in this. Well you know I tell you you can. You can be authentic and not raise any money or you can make it nice for people and have a ton of people participate so I decided I want two hundred people to come fundraise with me instead of the five. That would really do the authentic experience so we made room for two hundred people sleep and having some of the creature comforts you know makes it easier for people to come participate. Part of it is about building a community of people interested in helping youth. And you do that by bringing people together absolutely who nope the proposed this idea initially to care for friends because they didn't start out that way. No it didn't so care for friends has been dealing with homeless issues in Chicago for about fifty two years. I took over as chairman of the board about seven years ago and we were going through a staff change and I had a a new executive director coming on board and as with with all nonprofits. You know there's never enough money but to pay the new executive director salary at a a shortfall and money that I needed to raise really quickly and so threw it out as just a random idea idea one day and said hey what if we you know. It's getting cold. What if we just go sleep out on the lawn and asked people to sponsor us every hour out in the cold they can? They can throw some some money any our way. I can imagine that was not well received I well you know. I thought it was a joke but I was surprised that the people around the table all said Jd. If you're willing to do that let's let's go do it you know. Let's do it in two weeks so initially you're just being sarcastic. I thought it was a throwaway idea. Yeah well let's crazy idea. Sometimes they're the ones that really work. Yeah ones is it like. You're thinking outside the box. It appeals to people and I had read a about a few years ago. I thought well that really is an interesting concept. Really is something the Is the one that you told me about the euro. That was like yeah. Let's have him on. Yeah so the first year there were six of us and even though I had been working with our we have about twelve thousand homeless guests come through our facility and although I thought I knew a lot about homelessness that night we really wrestled with questions. About what would it be like if we you're truly out here where would we sleep. Where would I go to the bathroom? How would I shower? You know all of that Kinda stuff and we were doing some back than twitter posts. We had a little HASHTAG. CF Asleep which is care for friends sleeves that we're posting these pictures on and suddenly I found out that everyone was really interested in it and so the next year six became twenty-five that Ed I want to experience that too and it just it grew and grew and grew and grew so our capacity about two hundred. What did you learn the first night that you did this about being homeless? I learned seven. Eleven is the Mecca for for homeless people. We're right in the Middle Lincoln Park where at Clark and Fullerton and it's a very gentrifying neighborhood. Fifty years ago when care for friends started Lincoln. Park was not the Lincoln Park. We know of today. But you know we're next door to three million dollar home woman. People are less excited to have you know homeless people in the neighborhood and so a lot of businesses and you know they they call it aggressive architecture. Her have really have really shifted things. Like you have to have a key to go to the starbucks bathroom and you've got to the park benches all these little ridges that are gonNa make it hard for you to lay down under an arm rest in the middle of it and when you really start looking around your neighborhood for that you realize how aggressive it is to people without homes And then you find some some glints of gold like a seven eleven. WHO's constantly saying come on and we've got dollar coffee and we've got five dollar pizzas and you can use bathroom and you find some small business? Owners that are really opened. Serving their community was was a lot of pushback from the nonprofit to start art. This or I mean. It's grown to something pretty sizable now. But imagine the first year first couple of years. It wasn't yeah I mean I think I think the nonprofit was excited sighted about it. We knew in the first year that it had caught on as it had caught the imaginations of people and now it's become our largest fundraiser. This year this year we're expecting eighteen across quarter million dollars raised in the which helps us you know. Serve twelve thousand homeless people. A year helps us get eighty five percent of them housed within six months hook them up with mental and physical health. Do job training a lot of stuff so you really turning around people's lives. Yeah so we talk we also kind of talk about Hashtag more than a meal And really what we're trying to do is create a community where people can come together and get connected to life changing resources. There are a lot of organizations in the city that can address. You're you're homeless. Need and get you the job or get your housing but a lot of homeless people are afraid to access them. Part of being homeless is Being afraid of authority being afraid of people treating you poorly and so you know when shelters first question to you is show me your. Id what's your name. Sign this form. What's your religion? What's your gender identity or your homosexual a lot of that kind of stuff right even though it may be an organization? That's that has has the resources there to help you. You're turned away right away. You're afraid of it and so what we're doing care for friends is we. We do a hot meal that we invite about one hundred and fifty people for lunch. Each day they come in they spend time with us. We don't just do a cafeteria. They come in for two or three hours spend the afternoon with us and then mixed in at our tables our representatives from some of these other organizations in over time we build a trusting relationship that if you've had lunch with us for two or three weeks now I can introduce you to that drug and alcohol counselor and now I can introduce you to a housing provider and you're willing to accept that gift. What do you make about? Who is it? The celebrity was handing out like vegan meals to homeless people in Los Angeles and there are like I want mashed potatoes. What kind of food or you guys serving we you have a wide variety of food we try and actually we have a celebrity TV chef? WHO IN CHICAGO? WHO's really active in the kitchen as well so it was really taught us a lot about nutrition in and thinking about the needs of homeless people? And what kind of nutritional needs they actually have. But you know when you think about that celebrity chef the question is who are you really serving and are you trying to serve the homeless person trying to serve yourself in your ego. So you're not doing your during meals that they want absolutely good and tasty food. Did you know you and I were talking earlier about close stores that are like and buy a pair of shoes and we'll give a pair of shoes away to to a poor person and and what's interesting about that is it's much more a marketing campaign than trying to do good Homeless person maybe doesn't want those shoes and by the way the shoes that you bought for yourself are not the shoes that actually are getting delivered to the homeless shelter. It's a totally different quality and and different kind of cost. And so when I think about that celebrity. It's what's their intention engine. And do they intend to do. Good in the community or do they intend to just bolster their reputation. Well that's a tricky thing and and at the core of today's show is this holiday holiday season. I see so many people with great intentions and I think about you know booty judge ringing the bell for Salvation and army doing a photo op. In two thousand seventeen. He had been helping raise funds for the Salvation Army for three years before that and the backlash that's happening running and how people say if you're going to help somebody for charity don't treat this as content for your social media do it it because it comes from the goodness of your heart however these nonprofit organizations like yours understand that maybe a little show business. A little appealing to people's Vanity can actually get them over that Hump to donate to take action because the ultimate crime is not money it's not apathy apathy apathy absolutely. Yeah Yeah I think you're right there and you know someone who runs a non profit. I'll take the help any way I can get it. And you know if if the way I'm going to get help for our service is by giving you a little press or giving you an instagram moment. I'm going to capitalize on that. But it's interesting to see that there is a season of giving right now. It's Christmas and Thanksgiving and everyone wants that holiday moment to say I took the kids down to the shelter and I served Camille or I handed out a pair of socks. People are still homeless and May and June and July and people aren't thinking about those homeless people at that point either and so you know one of our challenges changes when we think about fundraising and how sustain an organization for a year or a lifetime is not just to have support on Thanksgiving and Christmas but how to use that moment To really support us all year long. How do you sort of fight? This exploitation of people in the most vulnerable moments people call it poverty tourism where someone who is in the most vulnerable place in their lives when they're homeless is being exploited by. I somebody who wants to have a photo op or You know superficial with their needs to try to help them and they're not actually helping them. They're just helping helping themselves. Yeah how do you guys like fight against that. I'm glad you asked that question because it's one that we talk about a lot. We want our guests to feel that they've always. It's been an space of dignity and respect and so one of the rules. We have care for friends as you're never allowed to take a photo of one of our guests now. The flip side of that is if you're coming Ming with your maybe you're coming by yourself or your family or your company to volunteer. You want something you're GonNa put on facebook or instagram. So one of our tricks is to really figure out. Where can we create create instagram volunteer moments? That aren't gonNA exploit those people So the sleep out is a great one. You know we will have a few homeless speakers that night but mostly mostly will have great campfires and intense and backdrops. That'll be great for people to get that kind of instagram. Fix Out of And it's not at the expense of an individual person that that's going to be exposed and really one of their most vulnerable moments Really profound so this leap out you guys provide the tensor you providing sleeping bags. Is You bring your own sleeping bags. And what's because I imagine you know February Twenty First Chicago Illinois. Coal is more marketing. I'm in reality. Probably so we tell we tell the people who are participating you bring a sleeping bag and winter coat and we'll take care of the rest of what you need. The the truth is I've done this. This'll be my sixth year in a row sleeping out and by the time of getting my bag at night. It's you know I'm taking off my code. I'm taking off my shirt and I'm waking up sweating leading. What are we supposed to sleep in? Sleeping bag naked. I don't know if you know that that's kind of the sleeping bag of this because you're supposed to get the ones that reflect the heat back on. Yeah I mean they said that if you sleep near sleeping but you'll be more warm that the close actually recommended like a homeless person. Take their clothes off. I mean it. It is a life or death experience when you take your jacket off because somebody might steal it from well. So actually what happens. Is You actually take off a lot of close and keep them in your sleeping meg. Okay so when you wake up in the morning you have to put on but inside a sleeping bag and a tent. That's got six or eight other people in it. You generate a lot of heat. No mark were. Are you a cub scout or a boy scout cub scout. Yeah so you probably learned about rubbing two sticks together and getting really warm. Also currently you're also probably had you know that inside attempt experience. Staying warm is not the challenge of being homeless on February twenty first. It's much more about trying to get a little sleep because I imagine. Some people were pardoning down Oh people are partying and people are snoring. I always have to remind people you know you're in this little ten that feels really cozy but the tent right next door to the US is three inches away and a very thin piece of fabrics. I'm reading you so keeping your voices down and keeping the noise down and being respectful. Your neighbors is part of the funny funny thing is that this podcast started out as a sleep over art event. Many many years ago at Randolph Street Gallery Gallery here in Chicago. The radical ferries had a fundraiser for the for this Avin guarded experimental art museum and we had invited people to do a slumber party party really to have an urban experience in wicker park and this art gallery and we're raising funds for the gallery and it. Was You know a lot of of discussion about homelessness as well. But a lot of people who go to ferry gatherings and bring their tents we're setting up their tents in the gallery and spending the night together and that was Difficult night I'll tell you sleep at all. I slept a little bit. Yeah but my friend Karen who is sharing the ten with me. She was like quick. Sign word it was funny to hear that story because a lot of times when you're here about LGBT lives homelessness is kind of an undercurrent that we don't talk a lot about but you. You know so many queens part of that little bio is I was couch surfing or I was. I was homeless when I got the call of the beyond the season or that season and tag tyra Sanchez. Her friend was trying to get rid of her because she was so. He put together her audition video and tape and sent to world wonder and that's why she got on dragon euro off my couch for sure on. T. and that's kind of the nature typically of LGBT. She homelessness isn't it. It's not they're always like living on the street but they they don't really. They're staying at friends houses there on on somebody's couch going from place to place. Maybe they're they. Were having sex with somebody in exchange for a place to sleep absolutely so yeah the research says about forty one percent of LGBT kids are exchanging sex for somewhere where to live at some point in their homelessness and and the challenges unlike a Lotta straight homeless youth there's really not a social safety net of other family members who will take them in or family friends who I'll take them in We don't think about in Chicago this Big Progressive City but twenty five percent of LGBT. Kids are still getting kicked out out of their parents house when they come out. And how much is that. Twenty seven twenty five percents five percents one out of every four. Yeah and so a Lotta Times. That's that's out in the suburbs and uh-huh and they migrate downtown where they don't have any family they don't know anyone and suddenly they need to play. They need a place to stay so do they. Typically just go to the percentage percentage of gay culture like boys sound Andersonville and places and just hang out. Hang out go to the bars try. Pick someone up to spend the night with and then a one night stand becomes a can. Can I stay a little bit longer and stay a little bit longer. And it's kind of the CD underside of of of what life has to be like. I was talking to an all Puerto Rican. The Shiite kicks out house in the eighties. She wrote in Humboldt Park and she goes back in the day. It was like that I like New York. We're in that first night that you spent the entire renate out there like Oh you don't need to sleep here anymore. Do you get out black. We were like living six of US apartment and you know it's much different back in the eighties I take. Oh Papa was all. The city was a little bit more affordable and the prices for rented or you know astronomical in some senses compared to what they were back back in the day and these kids don't necessarily have the means FCC. These millennials are the poorest generation to come absolutely you know. I was walking home from the gym the Other Day Day or ten in the morning and I was walking by SRO and there was a single residence occupancy so like one of those apartments that you can rent by the day right so there's one in the neighborhood and I was walking by and you know guys standing outside leaning against the door and he he kind of watches me walk by and says hey baby maybe you look real cute. But I'm real tired. Can You just give me twenty bucks and it seemed kind of supposed to be upset about that. Offended ended by that or if that was a compliment job for a reason. But that is the reality of you you know. Where was he going to sleep that night he he was actually at the building he wanted? You know twenty more bucks so he could spend you know he could pay for the rent that night But it's ten in the morning and who who knows what he's done all night long and he's he's trying to figure out where that next bed has been come from or meal's going to come from or whatever so it's a really tough situation that our young gay kids find themselves in and are you finding kids coming from other parts of the country and coming here or is it just mainly this the burbs and the people in the city. I think we're drawing from a lot of Illinois Indiana Wisconsin if you're if you're gay from another part of the country are probably headed out to San Francisco I know why anyone would try to migrate to Chicago. Kogo with the winters that we have But certainly are surrounding our surrounding counties in suburbs. We're big destination for for freshly out gay kits. It's what are some things that people don't realize about homeless youth the misconceptions that will have besides you know that it's glamorous or so I'll sing musicals based on homelessness and based on on rent the musical or something you know. Yeah I mean so so being homeless. Just one facet of their personality and just in the same way that being gay is one facet of their personality. So you know our our homeless gay kids have the same in kind of life ambitions and dreams ever else does. I wrote a piece for care for France blog A week ago about this Jackie and she grew up in the suburbs and and she had all of the affluence financial services. Father and and mom was really excited about her career. She got into college. Mom And dad went down to college and said how do we get her into law school and then at the end of her sophomore year. You know she's chasing a triple major. She's a pre law and she calls home to say you know I'm getting straight as and by the way I met this girl in college and and I have a girlfriend and her parents immediately cut her off and so said you know hung up the phone own. Had their brother call a couple of days later and say mom and dad cut off your credit cards. Your phone's going to be turned off at the end of the month. You know they want the car returned back to this location. I and they're going to call the police and report it stolen. Don't know how you're GonNa Finish College or do what else you're going to do but we want nothing to do with you anymore. And so you know. That's who are homeless kids are it's it's the same kind of career aspirations and goals that everyone else as they just suddenly have lost the infrastructure underneath. That's that's really just heartbreaking and part of it is you know like I think about those kinds of situations like I wonder if like people who get kicked out by their parents. What do they think? Oh I was just joking. It'd be the back in the closet. Sure there's a lot of people. Oh I was mistaken or something. Yeah Yeah I've seen it happen to people before well and so many gay people are told you can change. Go Go pray about it and it'll come back and I think you you know I I give kids a lot of credit who come out my own coming out. Process took me a long time and I had professional issues that I was thinking about. But you know it's a lot of things you need to think about and we've all had our own coming out journey you know what's the trade off and eventually you know we all kind of get to the point that that I know it's GonNa it's GonNa come with pain but it's GonNa be worth it in the long run but kids are now wrestling with that younger younger and and dealing with consequences younger and younger to when you were running this very successful startup. It was when it went had IPO. It was the largest. What was it? It was the largest tech company me to have an it was the largest. IPO OF TECH Company and for people who are not familiar with the stock market or how it works that means that this tech the company started offering shares of stock and it became the most valuable company before Google came into being. Yeah right yeah so. In addition to running care for friends friends. I have a day job working in sales in technology and my first job was at a small startup. It was in the late nineties and so we were selling a product that help people build websites so I began there. I wasn't the CEO. At that point I was just a regular sales are up and my sales pitch was kind of like. Hey I'm calling from the Internet. The company was called Vignette vignettes Vignette and they were pioneers in a really simplify this like the Internet used to be static documents just like if you were pulling Microsoft word documents off of somebody's computer and then came this technology called XML which allowed to separate the content was what you see on on a website and that's what gave rise to podcasts to rss feeds all this good stuff that basically the way that we use the Internet today absolutely social media and and you guys as a company created software that allowed companies like American Airlines Amazon to get their start start doing shopping carts and all that stuff all of that kind of can you guys like built the Internet from scratch. We did now. I was not the smart one I was just a sale. You are involved involved with. It was very fortunate I was twenty four years years old. I started at this company. They had sold seven hundred thousand dollars in that year which I thought was a ton of money. Six years later the company was selling nine billion billion dollars a year. We had six thousand employees. We went public. Did all of that kind of stuff. It's a good thing you didn't work for PETS DOT COM. We probably built their website coffee and say hello. I'm from the Internet. Basically my sales pitch and I thought I don't know why ever and doesn't go into sales. This is like the easiest message from the Internet. Do you need a Web page and exactly as you said all the newspapers did and the airlines did the car companies did A really nice start but so that that experience really launched me into tech sales sales career. Wherever since then I've worked with a variety of software companies helping you streamline their sales organizations so overtime you know I got better skills? I became a sales manager. I became the sales. I've been the CEO of companies now. I'm we call it. The chief revenue officer run sales and marketing for a tech company. And I forgot how we got down this path but well and so in this journey you were this point in your life. You're this very successful leader in a company penny and yet you're terrified to come out as gay to an era telling me that like still in this day and age like credibly high number people are terrified to come out of gay workers out at work and it took me. I was the CEO of the company. Before I came out and I know this because whenever I tell people that I'm gay there is get all huge like and I'm like maybe this is why I work at a bakery when you work in a you know people think about what's it what's it GonNa do to my career. What's IT GONNA do to my professional reputation? We still live in across the country. You can get fired for being gay. They're not legal protections in many many states and certainly not nationally. It's not a protected class. So you really have to think twice about it and not only is is not a protected class where you can actually be quite hostile work environment for you if you are in. LGBT person you're out you're ridiculed your mocked your beaten up all sorts of things can happen to absolutely absolutely and so it wasn't until I was the CEO. And I was like well. I'm basically the boss here now. I can walk in the off into the office and say hey I'm the IT I'm the new guy in town and you know it wasn't a big announcement but I made sure I was. Actually this is my first day on the job Bob and made sure I was making comments about you. Know The guy who knows my husband but You know making those references and kind of letting people know this is going to be a safe replace. Jd Miller is Farsi has lifestyle. Were showing his wedding ring on to uh so how. How did you react to that? How did you handle those kind of comments? Well you know I didn't get a lot of pushback. I was actually fortunate. I was the CEO. I was take Boston and no one was going to say anything have changed but there are still some very backward people out there of course. Yeah what do you say to. To The T.. CEOS like the the Guy who runs T. mobile apple who are some like seals. Cook Peter Thiel of paypal. He's a he's a trump supporter order. I think it really is about being visible. If you as the CEO can't be out at work. How do you think your employees who are making king much less money than you are are going to feel comfortable and safe there it does it make it easy to come out as as Lgbtq when the leadership of of the company you work for is out and proud and is vetting nonprofit so their not donating money to like you know this is Jalen? Oh man rate or the Salvation Army's of the world and instead you're doing too good charities actually do work and have very low overhead. Yeah so it was interesting me. This fall CRAIN's Chicago business. It's a business magazine in Chicago. Did this eighty five. LGBT executives in Chicago notable executives tips. And I was one of the one of the eighty thank. You can't give me the email addresses because we're trying to raise money but you know we're we're like a reception option for this so you had a party. They had a party L.. Asking for money too but perhaps and it was amazing. How many of the people said you know when I was approach to receive this award? I wasn't sure if I was GONNA take it because I had to wrestle with my name is going to be in the paper. LGBT and their CEO who is in big big name titles so away to come out of the closet or they had been to a couple of people and yeah and so you think if it's hard for that kind of person come out. How rough is it for the fourteen fifteen sixteen year old kid whose parents are fundamentalist Christians and tell them they're gonna go to hell? Ellen how do you make all of that work. So who's the most like exotic eccentric queer. CEO You've met so folks. I tell you who I think it is the guy the guy who runs a T. mobile. He's off off the law on social busy. I don't see Love T. mobile like I run into people who have slept with him and so all the time. His name is John and he like. It's not a coincidence that T. mobile's color is pink ball just that way I love it. It's like a really. You know a person with good head on his shoulders but he's he's very eccentric. You Know I. I don't know I don't know if I have accenture but there's a woman that I met actually through the the cranes thing who's actually also we're GONNA sleep out with us and she's Tran with women again. Ah She's Trans and she runs. A company called hardhats in high heels and so she in her wife stand out as construction workers with the with the signs on the polls and tell people when to start and stop traffic and I think about what courage that must take to be first of all the woman construction and then out Trans Woman and Construction and all of those battles that might need to get caught and I just love that although not eccentric centric the way you talked about other CEOS. I love that she created this. Winging title for a company called hard hats and high heels to what you build it they will come yes so she has a good head on her shoulders. She's not like fighting with people on twitter mill. No no no. No she's actually Garrett. Does that really good for the community. Eh That's wonderful. That's Okay I would remind folks that fees to fund is made possible because of your generous contributions right right now. We are trying to save the equipment that we use to produce this podcast. If you gotTa go fund me Dot Com Slash Feast of fun save fees to fund. You can help us continue into the years to come. We are here today because of fabulous of the support of fabulous people like you J.. Jay Miller credit card. That's right people say he's the fun and right now we have made it to two thousand seven dollars and our goal. Aw is thirty five hundred dollars. YES CHARLOTTE TO SEAN LA- penske Jake Tolan of failure. Joy All raw field steven in Howell Oscar Torres. Joe Adama Kyle coffin. Jeff Right Mark Sanford. Mike Stabler John Smith David McColl Gary Ballinger read loveland Larry Lafontaine and so many other people. You guys have been friends of ours and listeners. All these years were deeply grateful that we've gone. This far thirty-three donors made possible. You can go to go fund me dot com slash. Save Feast of fun and help us be around for years has to come thank you so much for your support really means a lot. Now this is what we got into the hot tea of the show. Jay Talk about being an intern for or the Bill Clinton White House at the same time as Monica Lewinsky class. Absolutely yes what happened what you. So it's an intern class. Is that how. How does this work? How does this work? Yeah so I was in college. I thought it was going to law school. And part of the part of the pre law program was go. Get an internship so I had a friend who had been White House intern turn and she said you should apply to be a White House intern and they took one hundred of us a semester. And so I flew out to DC and got to go to work in the White House. Every day and Monica Lewinsky was just one among one hundred other people. So it's not like you got to know her that well and she was just as attractive and charismatic. Other men and women in in your group absolutely and she and I have very different jobs to do okay but much like the she worked in in legislative affairs and I worked in the president's scheduling and so I didn't have a great relationship a close relationship with her whereas you know much like the girl who sat in your math class two rows down knew who she was knew her name and you know have some pictures that she's in and so so you don't have any t- to fill over that you heard. There were some rumors right while you were there. But you didn't think much of it. Yeah so we had. We had a ton of rumors you know you think about. The government is this big league institution wherever and puts on suits and ties every day and has a has a big grown up job but there were rumors about so many things going on then summer so you know back. I'm old so that was back in ninety six. Thanks there's people are talking about Vince foster committing suicide and all sorts of stuff going on and of course Monaco a rumor as well but it wasn't till the what was Komo news time. I'm you know. Exactly what the news is that she was having an affair in the Oval Office. Okay so you guys knew about this before was published her. That store store heard. That story didn't believe at the time. It seemed highly unlikely. Yeah it seems you know. It seemed didn't believe it never saw myself didn't think it to be true but then something about her. I'm sure well I'm sure and Linda TRIPP as well you know was was not keeping that a secret either It was about a year later. I was done with the internship and started to hear the news and at first I was like I've kind of heard that story before. I'm surprised they're running with it. But then you know the same same story in the same story in the same story coming out and and of course then we discovered the whole thing. It was all on tape and the rest of it in the blue dress so there was an interesting time what do you make about. Republicans comparing today's impeachment proceedings to Bill Clinton's impeachment proceeding. Not at all. The same name. Bill Clinton was was impeached on looking for an excuse to impeach him on something. He didn't his private life. And you know the me to move. Maybe makes this thing very different things about a relationship with a Boston. There's ordinate and there's a lot to be discussed there. But it's it's not quite the same thing hanging in my mind. Anyway is as actually asking foreign countries to intervene in your elections because that was a big factor why House Democrats were reluctant to proceed with impeachment proceedings. Even though it's very clear that trump has always broken the law and has been like what are you gonNa do about it kind of like a bully you you know well you know it's very brazen I was listening to the impeachment hearings today and one of the one of the house. Representatives talked about in the in the Nixon impeachment and in the Clinton impeachment. Both of those presidents said I'm going to fully we comply with the with the subpoenas. I'M GONNA make my staff and my records and everyone else available. This is the first impeachment. We're going through where the president is blocking his staff from participating baiting fighting every subpoena along the way and not participating in the process. And that's GonNa work out and trump's favor I don't know I mean I certainly think he's been enabled to delay and delay and delay. We've gone election coming up so no regardless of what you think of this president you should be an active voting citizen. And and you know if he's not impeached he he may be able to. He may be able to run down. The clock can get to the next election and it's really up to us as citizens to decide. I do want to continue on with us for another four years. Can we even trust the results of the next election. We'll see who knows. I mean it's like you know right now in social media there's this article corrine spread by everybody saying it's like you know all these young people registered to vote two million registered to vote in the UK yeah fine print the UK and part of me thinks it's like facebook is probably pushing this in in a way to get people here in the United States to think that all these young people are registered to vote. Oh I don't need to vote. The young kids are going to take care of it because now there's two million of them were check the data on it it's from the UK. Well we have made very easy for people registered to vote now and so in the last presidential election. There's big deal made out of record turnout. It was like sixty a year. sixty-five percent of eligible voters actually did sixty five percent. Turnout is actually really terrible. When you look at how many people go vote in foreign countries? It's a right that we have. It's the one thing that you can do to really change your destiny and and there's no reason not listening right now. You should go get registered and then go exercise your voice tambourines driving. You brought up the blue dress. I should tell you the story about this guy so this guy had a a bone marrow transplant because he had cancer right and so they went to look at his body after the bone marrow transplant and they did certain swabs to look at his DNA so his blood and his blood system is a one hundred percent. The the donor's blood now because it's changed so now he's got the donate blood running through his body. They did swab serve his mouth and his lips and that also has donor DNA in it. The only place like his body. That didn't have donor. DNA was the hair on his scalp and on his chest and hand the sperm and his body produce was one hundred percent donor DNA. So this guy basically is like like disappearing. But it's still saying the same. This is some forensic files stuff going on within that wild so scientists have discovered that a recipient of Brown marrow transplants themselves most of the DNA and his body is changing. His physical appearance is still staying the same well pretty much still saying the same now. I posted this. That's shocking and profound news. Because it means that what we understand of persons phenotype the way they appear. Earn Gino type. The code of their DNA is way dramatically different than when we thought before. And here's some hard evidence so I mean it really shows a lot that maybe gene therapies. Who knows what could happen in the future? And daisy push or drag queen friend of ours on Facebook I posted. I did this. And she said that his his uncle or drag queen of got Bone marrow transplant from his mother and that he was a real asshole before for ever since. He got the bone marrow transplant from his mother who was a kind gentle person. He has become a nicer person. And it's not just because of you know he thinks it's not just because of the the being grateful to not have cancer anymore but because the actually did something to him physically picking up a little bit of someone else someone else having maybe some like that female energy that empathy kind of thing. That's really cool profound profound. Yeah Yeah. Yeah it's certainly in terms of fighting These kind of a physical ailments. It's definitely going to be a profound found. Change in how we think about genetics disease illness and solutions and treatment and also the athletes. I'm this guy could go out out and make a baby with somebody else. And it wouldn't even be his kid and the baby my navy and look like him. What would be the other guys kid? And whatever this other guys like African American American or dubbing dramatically different. Yeah or like a guy white or do we know. He's like white But he The was going to say I mean the point of two so like let's say he goes. Oh gets this woman pregnant and he runs out of the picture. Who's responsible for that baby now Wada? A lot of genes. I WANNA get your thoughts a little bit more into this idea of the controversy with Pete Booty Judge Uh who is a top Democratic candidates. He might get the ticket he could be our next president. And you know for quite quite some time He came out in two thousand fifteen in the second run for Mayor of South Bend Indiana and that same year he started participating anticipating with the Salvation Army to raise funds as a bell ringer and he did a lot of photo. OPS in two thousand seventeen actually was photographed and most recently see. Those photos have been made onto the Internet and causing a lot of division. A Lotta anger and people saying why are you support. I mean chick fillet this past past year. Cut Ties with Salvation Army because of their homophobia and transphobia. What you have to make about that? Or what advice would you give to somebody. He likes beauty. Judge well I guess guess the optimist is happy that he's doing he's doing something good and whatever whatever caused him to get there. Hopefully it's become a habit for him now. And so if he becomes the President I hope continues to support the Salvation Army and in advance their mission in advance their goals. CHICK-FIL-A doesn't even want to support the Salvation Army. And they're they're the they're they're the homophobic ones you know they're so salvation army was so harmful to Lgbtq people that even chick-fil-a doesn't want to be associated with them anymore. Think about that actually. Yeah I'm actually to me. It's like I don't like to me. It's kind of illustrates the value of being part of a community. Which is is if Budi judge really wants to be our next president and he wants to you know be the the dealmaker to to make these conservative organizations nations be more kinder understanding of the needs of Lgbtq people and not harm us not create a divisive world? He needs to understand where we're coming from in order to have that conversation. He can't advocate for us when he doesn't know us even he may. You may be out as gay but have you hung out with you now with care for friends and spent a night in the tent. No he hasn't. Yeah well admittedly I probably need to do some education my own on Salvation Army. Because I think I'm learning sitting here to list in nineteen ninety seven. They fought against universal health. Care and the city of San Francisco in two thousand is an eight denied a Trans Woman's shelter which led to her death in Austin Texas in two thousand thirteen. They were caught referring vulnerable people. LGBT people in our organization listen to conversion torture groups in two thousand sixteen they fought against protecting LGBT youth from bullying and public schools in Australia. And so they're using using the money that we're thinking is going to support homeless people in those red buckets and a portion of them definitely goes to help them but another portion of that goes to to advancing. They're very conservative. Viewpoints that are harmful to people including LGBT youth homeless youth. Well I suppose I suppose he is learning that with great power comes great responsibility and so you know he becomes a mouthpiece for for these sorts of things and you you know as a donor as volunteer. You really need to get educated about what you're what you're supporting. He could've google that he got a wiki. PD ME as a politician. You know at least the wikipedia entry of their position. You're going to support sure. Sure it for you. I mean I think you know and and part of me is like I know I worked with people like Pete when I worked the Chicago. Free Press and the newspaper. I think the owner of that paper actually reminded me a lot of booty judge in the sense like there's a lot of pain and suffering and unreconciled trauma when we come come out as gay or trans or Lgbtq and we come from very conservative backgrounds. And so when we're out and about we sort of have this Messiah Ahah Complex and I noticed that friends do this. They're like suddenly discover some some horrible crime that everybody knows about. And they're the ones who are GONNA a solve it because they just the johnny-come-latelies that came into the picture and they know something that everybody else doesn't and part of it is like you know in terms of leadership hip and you know this and I know this a lot of people do great leaders are a ser is a servant job. It's a job where you are listening. You are leading from behind. You are taking advice from people and you're making sense of and disseminating you're not telling other people what what to do. You're listening to and you're absolutely and you're setting direction as well kind of thinking back to our discussion about CEOS coming out and all of a sudden it's a safe place when a a candidate or if he becomes president you know. Makes a small offhand comment. The rest of the world listens very closely and follows and will will barrel down that path because they're supporter so it really does. It really does mean you know. He's he will have a lot of great power and really needs to be very careful. Flynn thoughtful in everything that he does. Yeah I mean but that's true for anybody in politics. Were you you with the huge audience and huge listeners. You have to wear your words a lot more carefully than someone who has five people listening to them. Well I'm part of it is like I. I'd like to think that you know the Times that we've said things are made mistakes. That audience is willing to talk to us about it and that we're capable of listening coming to them and extend some grace and give room to make mistakes and then hopefully people grow from it as well and learn can say i. I was wrong or I did something poorly but I think if we want a seriously fight homelessness in this country and advocate the needs of youth. We have to advocate for universal health care. We need to advocate for increasing the minimum wage. The -solutely Louis or the cost of living is not keeping pace with our income and and young people. Today are the poorest least financially comfortable generation generation ever absolutely and. I think it's very easy to get into bumper sticker kind of statements about you know why. Don't homeless people just go get a job or pull themselves up by by their bootstraps and the truth is a lot of homeless. People have jobs we in Chicago. We've got twenty five thousand employed homeless people. They're the people who are cleaning. Meaning Your Hotel Room or checking you out at the Super Center. You know bagging groceries but still that don't have a regular place sleep at night and and sometimes sleep in their cars you know and part of it is like and they're working for they're they're they're pulling up themselves by bootstraps but it's still not enough right so we have construction going on next door always complaining about why do they start so early. Start so early and then they add. They're done by two o'clock among bullied. Probably go to their other job right right. And so if you're going to address an issue like homelessness there's a lot of systemic stuff like mental health and physical healthcare. You know people have to decide often between am I gonNA pay my rent American. Buy Groceries or pay that medical bill that just came in. And you know you pick the wrong one of those and and suddenly you're downward spiral and then it all falls apart for you. A friend of mine who was advocating very kind very generous person. And he's like I don't believe in food stamps. I think the government should get rid of food stamps. Like totally be our next president and I said to him like you know food stamps is if you believe that that you should have food stamps. You should apply for them for sure but food stamps affect us all in lowering the cost of grocery store bill. A lot of grocery stores wouldn't wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for food stamp programs and if there wasn't any food programs the ones that were still in business like whole foods you think your whole foods bills high without food stamps or but three or four times higher grocery store certainly are operating on. Yeah really really tight. Margins in every dollar counts there. But I think you're exactly right that if you want to make change in the world it's not it's not just putting a dollar in the Salvation Army's bucket hopefully you're gonna put it in care friends bucket but only because we're really gonNA be looking at. How do you solve all of the interdependent issues? And how does one thing leads to the next lead to the next and give people foundation stand on can you guys have you guys is talked about or thought about approaching chick-fil-a and say you know where LGBT friendly. We need the money. We'll put it in a good news. You know I'm a really small organization out here. But if they want to change their public damage Chick-fil-a if you're listening to here today absolutely you know get in touch with Mark Info Sta and and they'll put you in touch with me at the end of the conversation that you guys as is a nonprofit organization have these conversations all the time like who. You're associating yourself with where your money's coming from and how it affects your Publican chaps. Absolutely you know one of the you know. It's a good thing in a bad thing about what we do serving a hot meal on a regular basis. Is it really attractive. Volunteer volunteer opportunity for companies. A lot of companies will come with a check as well and say you've got one hundred fifty homeless people. Can you take twenty volunteers. And we'll also pay you for it and the truth is running a nonprofit is is about fundraising you need to get money somewhere but we do have to think very carefully about who do we say yes to. And and and how are they going to use that experience in in their own marketing or or media social media and pictures and the rest of it and and really be careful about who he associated with amazing using well. I hope that you guys have a huge turnout this year in February. What night is it GonNa be? It's GonNa Be February twenty first and You can still have spots available. People can can register at a hotel. Absolutely we villa. It will fill up. It will will fill up. Now get in now you you can go register at C. F. F. SLEEPS DOT com and that's care for Friends Sleeps Dot Com. Can You bring your inflatable mattress immutable heater. And we are pretty tolerant of the line. If you're willing to sleep with US and you're willing to ask your friends to to donate money to support you will will make space for a lot of stuff. So what's the like so if somebody wants to participate with that. What's the minimum? They need to raise two because there's like AIDS charity fundraiser like a marathon right yeah you know. We don't have a fundraising minimum. Okay we used to we. We discovered word that actually when people just opened their networks they far exceeded any minimums. We ever. So what's most important to us. Is that you sign up and you have your friend and sign up and bring people along. It's always a better party if you got more people sleeping with you so come on along and get other people encouraged to do sleep with J. T. Miller he's it's available. I in that way. It certainly sounds like a fun event and it really goes to incredible. 'cause I wish everybody could participate NAT NAT and if they can't participate in that figure out some way where you can help. LGBT homeless youth somewhere in the world will be sleeper Goethe's CFF SLEEPS DOT COM and and support one of our sleep with your dollars to write. I buy microphone for for fees to fund and then throw some are way I tell you you know. We've already started putting putting that money to us. And we got new microphones. You can hear it but it's like it's like having new shoes you know when you're when you're foot sticking out the bottom and put a new show so you're like Oh my God it's like I can breathe again. You know this. This microphone that I was talking on. It was having that it was like dropping pro black dust On onto my board hailing. That yeah probably not healthy. It's because these microphones are wrapped with this foam inside and basically basically degrade all this stuff. And these. These microphones are almost as old as I am. It's like a really. They have A. They have a history. It's been money really well. Spent a professional environment that's not too extravagant and wasteful. They've they've they've invested in quality quality equipment for a quality product and and not not being wasteful on it as well. I appreciate that I wanted to end the show with talking about the power of listening sinning and the power this podcast. In helping you come to terms with the on sexual identity because when you start lifting listening to the show you were in a relationship ship a long term relationship with a woman yes and you start to explain to her. How your enthusiasm for Feast Fun? And and she was is like said she never actually asked that question though she never. She never got to that question but I do and this is this. Is maybe a topic for us to come back and talk about another time. But I think PODCASTS are really interesting because although you're speaking to thousands of people It's a very one on one. One very intimate connection like you're physically in my ear. Every day and the words you speak are kind of influencing influencing people's brains and thoughts and and how they approach the world and so I stumbled upon your podcast years ago and At the time I wasn't in place in my life that I was like I'm going to seek out a gay podcast. They wanted up in the feed and in overtime at you know things started to resonate and things that I always knew about myself and maybe didn't WanNa wrestle with you guys have that conversation with myself myself and then eventually have that conversation with the rest of the world too so meanwhile we're talking about here now stuff on TV. That made us giggle. The sweaters on Walmart that had a snowman snorting cocaine shelves. How like what moment in in the In the history of the show stood out for you that made you think twice about yourself. Is there a moment that you can reflect. Yeah this is the show really this episode specifically did I don't think I have. I wish I had one for. I don't think I had a big a white shorts Tocchet. Okay said Oh I have feasted with fun foods on Feast of food. I think it was much more about a little baby steps and getting in the water and then take it back and put a toe in the water and take a bag so the gay community is a really complex place. That's that's different than straight people inhabit. That's an understatement. And there's a lot of stuff to learn a lot of stuff to know about and you know it's got a whole language and all sorts of stuff going on with it and so you know when I started to You know explore that that part of myself you know. I think. I probably drew on lessons that I picked up all along the way about you know how do you how do you treat people respectfully really. And how do you keep yourself safe. And how do you manage that. And how do you how do you look to the culture and find fun frivolous things to to enjoy too. I just want to say how proud I am a view of of where you come so far in your life and how you're making things better for people who are most vulnerable in the world. I think it's fantastic. What you're doing and I'm so touched and moved by the fact that we had some tiny bit to do with that? So thank you for are letting us know how we affected. Your Life means a lot to us especially at Christmas now because it's like it's the holidays it's the time sentimental nostalgia and doing good out in the world and it's nice to know that we were able to help you a little bit and and you are in turn helping a lot of young people out there and I just you know warms my heart. Well Oh thanks for including me in your life and then tomorrow we can talk about Santa Lost Aho and then Pocahontas. The movie the Willow Tree and uh-huh she says like we're just two people. What can we do and she says she's the pond? The ripples and the water starts small but they go out thaw and live. Never know where you'RE GONNA you've touched thousands of people and and some some you'll get to come in and sit down and tell you about lawsuits. You'll never I just kidding. I'm very respectful. Yeah so far. That is a question we get asked all the time I'm put you know we're actually opening ourselves up to a very vulnerable space as well and I and you are asking me like how we had people bowl who have violated that trust or harmed us to some degree and I was. ACS But generally speaking if you're willing to come into two gay guys apartment and talk on filtered for an hour about things that most matter to you and you're willing to make yourself that vulnerable herbal. You can't be that bad of a person if you're willing to expose yourself to the world that way and that you trust us to make sure that we take care of view as much as you take care of us. Well tell you over the years you know I. I think the trust is coming the other way because I feel like I knew before I walked in. I knew the name of your dog and I knew everything about you. You had no idea who you were. Open good training for things on the Internet. That's why I tell you that what we meet listeners. Though it's almost like a lot of times it's instant connection. Because they know us they know what we sound like. They know how we talked and stuff and so it's not really scarves and because you listen to us we're going to have that common interests that's for sure Jay. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me bivary body the by to say a few there are many way to say I can call you anyway to say manually to say I love you. Just buy anywhere when things things are sad and scary spy To say I love you cleaning up can say I love you hanging up. A four-year asked to do special pictures for the holiday and making play. You'll find many ways to say I love you. You will find many way to understand what laughing anyway. Many way manny way to say hey I love you.

Chicago CEO Salvation Army president Homeless Youth Jd Miller LGBTQ Pete Booty facebook twitter United States Boston Google San Francisco Jt Miller Illinois Salvation and army
Jo Langford on LGBTQ Youth  Smart Sex Smart Love with Dr Joe Kort

PodcastDetroit.com

29:41 min | 2 years ago

Jo Langford on LGBTQ Youth Smart Sex Smart Love with Dr Joe Kort

"Welcome to smart sex smart love we're talking about sex goes beyond the taboos and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon I'm Dr Joe Court thanks you're listening to the podcast Detroit visit www dot podcast detroit dot com before information so many decades and generations being able to use it in a positive way to refer to you and your people I think there's power in that too use Internet safety digital citizenship and comprehensive sex education his newest book the Pride Guide is a guy to sexual and social development Washington from working in peer counseling and student outreach programs in high schools to medical residential and psychiatric settings Joe provides trainings for Gay Bisexual transgender queer questioning Intersex an ally and a sexual in the sixties television played in hi Mary awareness tool around gender diversity and of the needs and experiences of Trans and gender non conforming people including children my guest today Joe Lankford. Ma Joe is a dad a master's level therapist author and sex educator for tweens teens and parents in Seattle mutations and agencies as well as therapy to adolescents and families around a gamut of sexuality themes with an emphasis on LGBTQ issue I purity book written with Queer and Specifically Trans Youth in mind Joel's also promotes healthy positive and safe sexual and social behavior normal part in social awareness around race for LGBTQ people the advent of the World Wide Web was a game changer in the nineties. Today social media is the it is yes which I find myself doing kind of more often than I think that I should but basically safety and health for Queer Youth and for their families covering all aspects of Lgbtq adolescence both online and off this book is the first at his website be heroes dot net. Welcome Joe Thank you for having me I'm so excited to hear I'm so glad you're here to and Kinda covers everybody you can say just one syllable word without having to do all the letters 'cause there's so many letters out there and I really I guess I should ask between Queer Lgbtq I well I think Queer in in my head and my definition it just means like not straight or says gender like everything sort of outside of that sort of what we think of as the primary norm right think that's great I think the point of it of that whole initial inclusion and it can sort of morph into this kind of unwieldy alphabet soup sometimes in here you know you said Queer Youth can you speak to that like what do all these things mean the letters the initial will why so many well but queer can kind of get the point across in their kind of more simple way and I think that being able to use that word as well I use the word yes use the word SIS gender CIS G. E. N. D. R. Six gender can you tell people who don't know what that means what is are thought we could start if you wouldn't mind I kinda going you know when I do the LGBT LGBTQ and sometimes I'll say Lgbtq IRA and then is is in that vein of that sort of power disempowerment thing where you can look back like when people who aren't clear used the word of the weapon and house hop things you do is working with the parents of Queer Youth and you say that statistically most parents of LGBT youth are not seeking out any type of formal support or therapy means someone who's gentler to someone who is who's outside appearance and their and their sense of themselves matches the janitor I've run into situations especially Kinda recently even professionals that are like what does that word mean and having to educate them and I know that one year you were born with and so since Jenner's when it does but that word feels like it's a word that everybody kind of knows to me but I but more and more like I on having lgbt child what are those what are the challenges for them then and how do you help them well I think there's I think there's lots of challenges to kids gay or my kid is trans like I don't really see that as a problem so I'm not GonNa go seek out any help our resources 'cause they associate doing that with you know at things from sleepovers to sex education like those things are at a different angle uh addressing a problem which is great but I think parents still need resources and then there's other parents who either don't care don't notice right the kids they are with straight or suspend kids and sometimes parents have a hard time remembering that but I do a lot of work with parents around your kids and and I'm always so refreshed like one of my favorite favorite things just went pants will come and they'll say we think our kids gay or kid or parenting a queer kid and and I think in some ways it's there's lots of reasons that they don't seek out resources and sometimes it's kinda sweet because they're like well I just kinda give him sort of a patent lists like I encourage them to you know ask about it to talk about it a lot of parents are kind of sheepish about bringing it up kind of sort of struggling or figuring things out on their own and they haven't come out to their parents so the pants don't even know that there's an issue to be dealt with but we support them because you know honestly we're living in some dark days right now and and there's there's a certain flavors of hate that and then I I really encourage them to can help make their house a little more clear friendly you know having like some books on the Shelf Sa- bumper stickers on the car the place but generally it's you know leading your kid be different a lot of pancer scared for queer kids in terms of you know if if a lot of that kind of depends on the situation in terms you know safety is always the most important thing but but then I am also a big believer in self expression and in themselves and the kid says well I'm going to do this I'm sorry you're GonNa have to figure it out how do you help a parent you know calm themselves down think that parenting a career kid is different than parenting a straight kit in almost every way like a lot of dynamics are exactly the same but a coffee mug with a rainbow or something you know what I mean just something that kind of gives them symbols and evidence around their home that there are home is included that'd be targets and that's going to happen and so part of me is like there's no really avoiding that so let's let's lean into let's be ready for it let's support them when it happens and so I I kind of do this balance like it's okay to talk about it and you can ask them questions just but don't do it every day or every meal you know what I mean like you don't have to Korea which they were born so a man who shows up as male and you know actual but now what do I do it's like having my sis my heterosexual child who wants to have an opposite sex person come and sleep over what do you say to that Japan on how to approach it because I you know I don't approach it that way because your kid is you know lgbt whatever letter self-esteem and those things are I think intimately related and and so if the kid wants to have blue hair for a while and that's the way that they're kind of accessing who they are around trying to project to the world and you know unless there's a clear like obvious safety issues like let's let them express themselves for a while but then be ready it is yes yeah and then you have to books prior to this current Book Pride Guide that are about youth right male and female correct yes what are the about homophobia parenting but nice dry. Well what I love about your work as you work a lot is it primarily with youth are lined that it's sort of the opposite of transgender so transgender as someone who's outside appearance were inner sense of themselves doesn't necessarily match the plumbing the estimate sometimes and they're gonNA have to deal with it either way what do you tell parents because I get this a lot too when they say okay so now I know that my my daughter is less and and and kind of go from there that makes it helps kids to be able to learn how to navigate that stuff 'cause it it is just sort of unrelenting it seems into them the spare me the talk series so I spent the talk was a book for for teenage boys or boy identified people girls written by a Guy Oh wow wow now what do you think there isn't any the windows many books or hardly any for boys to all the time because some parents get kind of Gung Ho and then jump in there and kind of get a little intimidating with that I think but but there wasn't a book that was just for boys there's a hundred million books for girls but but there wasn't a book that was just for boys so I wanted A. and she wants to or bisexual let's say whatever and now she wants to have a sleepover with a girl and I don't know are they going to have sex either girlfriends and you know it's different if they were both had sprint and so I was like this kind of needs to be in the world 'cause you know there's a lot of great books that kind of jump both sides of that sort of fence I just think we have really under served our boys honestly you know what I mean and we can tell like this you know all this stuff in our culture wouldn't then don't allow it but based on Matt on some kind of level of fairness because kids are you know you've you've worked with kids before I think right like an and guys Kinda need shut our mouths a little bit and let the girls have their time and talk about their experiences and learn from that and Kinda thought had been almost a radical and they're back with a vengeance and and they're gonNA be targets because you know people especially kids and 'cause there wasn't any books for boys there had been one before like puberty growing up book that was just for boys but it was out of bad for the teenagers themselves about growing up he would be their bodies consent you know sexuality identification all that stuff and and it's just not the time for boys you know what I mean I think right now in kind of a big way is is it's time for girls and then the section in the back for the parents as well and people like did I got great feedback on it and then people the the biggest feedback I got was like wasn't like we're totally down with that but we have no idea what we're doing like how do you can you help us not screwed up and what do you what do you say what changes do we need to make sure yeah and what made you decide okay I'll go ahead oh so but at some point we're going to have to yeah I that is a that is really funny as comes up a watch that's one of the most popular thing that happens and and so I I kind of have to gotTa have to help the Jake that part too sometimes and how do you tell them because I do get that to parents say I'm really worried in the way they're dressing or they seem like they're going to bring a tent all those things we did with boys in the eighties like it is it's coming to a head now right and we have to start doing something soon for the boys who are adolescents in culturally we're not quite there yet I think I think it's it's right in timely that we give attention to our young men but but at some point we're going to have to now is coming to ahead in terms of sexual assault and violence and privilege it's we're we're we're figuring out how to deal with it now yeah I guess so then you wrote these two books and then you thought okay I'm going to write a book for Queer Youth Pride Guide what made you decide that mostly because there wasn't talk about boys and Boyhood and how to raise them and whether they need to know and how do we teach them that that time is coming and I'm hoping to be part of that conversation but just approach it like what would your stance be in like you said an opposite if if they were heterosexual kid would you allow it yes than than allowed if L. so that in thirty years we don't have a bunch of more Kavanagh's running around we're learning how to do that why that's important there's GonNa be need to be a reckoning we're GONNA have to figure out how to deal with our boys in a proactive way so that those those problems don't continue it's not I think people need to understand that it's not just like you know like a single digit percentage of the population of those numbers are growing and changing and necessarily young men's fault that this is going on but this is this is how we're growing them right we're we're seeing now with all the cavenaugh stuff like acceptance groves they're getting bigger and even the adults are learning from the kids now and we've got people coming out in their forties fifties and sixties because I think the kids are doing here's to blue or their manners and strategic the sector going to bring violence on themselves and or someone will talk for violence and and I got it and in it and just since you've written it what would you like to see more of or less in terms of the culture around Queer Youth think just acknowledging that they are there I think sort of the the the prevailing theory for a really long time that it's like it was a small population such a great job and so understanding that how much culture needs to shift and not like acknowledging that they're they're making rooms how not to wear more than eight to ten or what is it twelve hours and that's asleep in it stand to pee the packing you know you get into all the the hormone blockers for them helping them feel accepted but you know I think it's that kind of change I think is is big and at hard for people in the bathrooms media I think that has really made played a big part in it but it it it's more Part of the conversation now and I think that needs to continue one it was like twenty seventeen and I was looking for resources for these families that we're talking about and I was like how the Hell is there not a puberty book for chanting career kids and things to keep in mind that's what I liked about your book and that's you answer the way I wanted you to I want people to hear including therapists who might be listening to this podcast because they always ask a small number of the population that I think now as kids have become more vocal and I think like you were saying at the beginning like with the advent of social how do you have these conversations when you have them you know what are the conversations what are the things you say you're very specific in the book about all this stuff and I think extremely examples being prominent right right bringing bathroom new gender-neutral yeah how hard is this conversation like I don't like I talked to schools all the time needed which there are many you know their their resources are google and when you google stuff you never know what you're gonNA get necessarily there's there's some great reliant this is like what are the resources going to be and are they going to be reliable and you know if somebody has a an adult in their life that they can ask questions and rely on then that's great for them that the the the prognosis for that kid is a lot more positive but there's other kids who are form and we ask about sexual preference or gender identity maybe in the intake and then we fill out the form and then we kind of maybe never revisit that even here and youth but I learned things about you you talk about when Trans males teenagers WANNA wear binders rights when they're flattening the chest helpful and people said that to you yeah they have actually I've I've gotten the pleasure of doing the trainings for agencies and other professionals the girl version of this book so I was like the girls have eight hundred books already but did it anyway so it was kind of fun so why don't they only book for turns kids like that doesn't seem to me and I called around and I talked to a lot of people and there's just nothing out there so I decided to run super well versed with that but so I talked to other professionals about how to just make room for queer kids right like your therapist most of us have an intake yeah they'll they'll play that the homophobe card you know as soon as they can just being home with parents have deal with that right like no steering that ship and educating you I think is good for them but then you can also see what they're actually talking about because there are a lot of it specifically you WanNa talk about but just like the idea that like the kids need these things and if you know at some trans kidding my answer generally is just breathe through it I think as a as a as an adult and someone who hasn't grown up in that specific culture his whole when to begin how to navigate through that I know that's a lot I just said but could you speak to a little bit of that sure I I mean I'm not sure thank you know how to have the same thing like grew friendly books maybe a poster or something like that in your office so that they can see that they're represented in there and save And a lot of doc say ask me this all the time as do parents oh my gosh they say it's like eventually people say it's so it's becoming a trend and it's trending to kids are identifying different gender I think it is you know this new culture where with all the languaging and the new words that are popping up it can be overwhelming and on kind of annoying sometimes oh you were about themselves and then the attitude becomes less important and then you can educate them if they are actively using a word wrong right because I've heard the term third than you did when you know when it was the fourth question on the intake form then graft you know what I mean when they just met you six minutes ago and stuff like that I think just Kinda don't necessarily think about that so yeah I get I get to help people kind of figured that out to what do you say to people my therapist and my altitude is out there that kids are using that people are using and but kids don't always understand them accurately so they may be what if there wasn't anything there that looks like it needed revisiting so I really encourage therapist like you know after a couple of months when you've built the report and use the key trust you and you're working with them like maybe ask him again about how they identify or whether they are on the data straight scale and you probably get a different in because like I said even like trained professional therapists and you know like twice in the last six months like what is this gender mean like your therapist just ask them what do you mean by that like explain that word to me when you say that what you're talking about can you break it down for me and kind of give them the experience of saying one word but meaning something different than that and so you can sort of you know help sort of cokes out what it is that they're like the meat of what they're trying to now have permission to be confused and explore and have all kinds of identities around gender and sexuality it's part of their job they now have the permission are word that doesn't fit for me I'm going to take this and that and create my own and you're gonNA refer to me how I want to be referred to not squeeze myself into this little box which I think is awesome ager is to be confused and change their mind every day about career about girlfriends about boyfriends about school about all the way they dress their hair so why now so using terms and they're changing the meaning you have to ask them what it means for them Oh yeah and it just changes every minute to I mean even matt energy like thinking about who they are thinking about sexuality and thinking about how their identity like slams up against another person in the world and then there was by but that was hardly ever talked about you know so it's it's nice that they have this and I think I think it's fantastic that they are spending so much there's out of the blue and a different sexual orientations out of the blue younger and younger what do we do there're almost panicked about it I have my answer but I'd like to hear yours first both sites out there for kids but but there's a bunch of other ones that have a lot of misinformation or a lot of outdated information and So I just wanted to try to take this this isn't rocket science like this is pretty easy to figure out like wh why are you stuck with it what I love about pride guide that I think is so important for parents about this they say you know they talk about well they would tell their their client to find other ways to be on the Internet to meet people and you know there really aren't any other ways for especially languaging can be exhausting yeah because it's a revolution rave hopefully we'll get to some more but yeah I feel like what they're saying is I'm not fitting myself into some old fashioned generational yeah that there are young boys fourteen years old who look older and get on Grindr the SMART APP phone with a GPS system and they say they're nineteen year old sophomore to think parents right you say oh so that's how you self identify what does that mean for you and not to even assume even if they use a word you think you know what it means kids and even adults ah kids are creating boutique identities which I love right and what I say to pee ons you say what I say but I also add this I say look the job description of a team ration- never had would you agree with that Oh yeah there is like the three choices there was there was gay or straight yeah sample right and then yeah yeah and then you talk it takes some work to get to what they're what they're meaning or what they're wanting to convey sometimes but I think it's totally worth it right and now we say the therapist get something that could be accessible not just the kids but again like I said in the back there's a whole section for the parents because it's there's so many challenges in terms of I know I don't I know you know they don't and and but it but it is because I think you know this idea like oh it's a really small percentage of the population so it make well I mean that's my other wheelhouse is dealing with parenting digital generations like around the Internet like being safe and smart online so that you know even like an older kid who might be fifteen or sixteen like you can still like how a culture in your house where they level charges and things like that and they have to understand like your your your choices have impacts on people outside of you that they don't always consider necessarily arm I know what I wanted to address appearance would be listening even youth Internet danger right so I mean I talk about how I always in my talks always include the their screens and so I deal with that quite a bit and I'm a huge fan of parental monitoring and making contracts with kids around their behavior understand Internet right there misleading to the older adults who think they're with somebody who is an adult and they're not I mean it's a mess really and I like that you're in your book the briefs through it right but with the kids like just meet them where they are when they say oh I'm identifying this way this way this way and that sort of a few adjectives that you yes and they end up being sexual with older men who think and the older men think there with a nineteen year old young man but they're not there with a minor and when I

Joe Lankford Queer Youth Dr Joe Court Ma Joe Seattle Detroit Washington Joel nineteen year fourteen years thirty years twelve hours six minutes six months one year
Carl Nassib Becomes First Active NFL Player to Come Out as Gay

TIME's Top Stories

05:55 min | 4 months ago

Carl Nassib Becomes First Active NFL Player to Come Out as Gay

"Carl nasa because i active nfl player to come out as gay by arne stapleton associated. Press las vegas raiders. Defensive end carl. Nasa on monday became the first active. Nfl player to come out as gay nasa who is entering his sixth nfl. Season and second with the raiders announced the news on instagram. Saying he wasn't doing it for the attention but because he felt representation and visibility were important. I just wanted to take a quick moment to say that i'm gay. Nasa said on his video message from his home in west chester pennsylvania. I've been meaning to do this for a while. Now but i finally feel comfortable enough to get it off my chest. I really have the best life. I got the best family friends and a job a guy can ask for. I'm pretty private person. So i hope you guys know that. I'm really not doing this attention. I just think that representation and visibility are so important. Nasa added in a written message that followed the video that he agonized over this moment. For the last fifteen years and only recently decided to go public with his sexuality after receiving the support of family and friends i am also incredibly thankful for the nfl. My coaches and fellow players for their support nasa road. I would not have been able to do this without them from the jump. I was greeted with the utmost respect and acceptance nasa whose announcement came during pride month added that he was donating one hundred thousand dollars to the trevor project a nonprofit that seeks to prevent suicides among lgbtq youth. The nfl family is proud of carl for courageously sharing his truth today. Nfl commissioner roger goodell said in a statement representation matters. We share his hope that someday soon statements like his will no longer be newsworthy as we march toward full equality for the lgbtq plus community. We wish carl the best of luck. This coming season nasa announcement also was greeted by brian burke president of the nhl pittsburgh. Penguins burke has been a major proponent of lgbtq rights for more than a decade since. His late son brendan came out as gay proud to support carl and his decision to come out as the first active gay player in the nfl. Burke said i hope other sports executives will join me and publicly expressing their support as well. The raiders showed their support writing. Proud of you karl. On their re post of nasr's message on twitter and adding a black heart emoji the morris smith executive director of the nfl players association tweeted. Our union supports carl and his work with the trevor project is proof that he like. Our membership is about making his community and this world a better place not for themselves. But for others. Penn state coach james franklin said he and his wife fumie inspired by nasa announcement to donate ten thousand dollars to the trevor project. I am very proud of carl for his courage and voice. Franklin said this announcement doesn't surprise me. Because if you know carl you know his strength carl's story continues to add chapters which will have an impact. Well beyond the field of play nasa led nation with fifteen and a half sacks and twenty. Fifteen franklin's second season in state college and he was a cornerstone of the programs path. Back to contention carl's brave. Announcement will forge a path for others to be true to their authentic self. franklin added. I was proud of carl when he led the nation in sacks. But i'm even more proud of him now former all pro linebacker shawne merriman commended nasa and suggested teammates and opponents won't have a problem with this announcement. Congrats carl nassib on coming out. That's a big step. I think that most players are concerned if he can play or not. Merriman tweeden anna. A post saying he was proud of nasa hall of famer. Warren moon said he played with several gay football players in a storied pro career that spanned from nineteen seventy eight to two thousand but none were comfortable enough to go public. They were great teammates and obviously very talented as long as they helped us win and were great teammates. Their sexual preference was never an issue. Moon road we live in a different time. Now where diversity is much more accepted. Jeers carl and i hope this. Let's other athletes. No it's okay to say who you are added fellow nittany lions alarm and giants running back saquon barkley much respect brother sarah. Kate ellis president and ceo of glad a leading lgbtq advocacy organization called nasa powerful coming out is a historic reflection of the growing state of lgbtq visibility and inclusion in the world of professional sports which has been driven by a long list of brave lgbtq athletes. Who came before him. Ellis said nasa story will not only have a profound impact on the future of lgbtq visibility and acceptance in sports but sends a strong message to so many lgbtq people especially youth that they too can one day grow up to be and succeed as a professional athlete like him. More than a dozen nfl players have come out escape after their careers. Were over former university of missouri defensive star. Michael sam was the first openly gay. Football player ever selected in the nfl draft going in the seventh round to the then saint. Louis rams in two thousand fourteen but he never made the final roster and retired in twenty fifteen having played an nfl regular season game. Nassib is a sixth year pro. Who was drafted by the cleveland. Browns and twenty sixteen in the third round sixty fifth overall out of penn state. He played two seasons for the browns and to tampa bay. Before joining the raiders. Twenty twenty he has twenty and a half sacks and seventy three career games.

nasa carl Nfl Carl nasa arne stapleton las vegas raiders trevor project raiders morris smith nfl players association fumie west chester roger goodell brian burke carl nassib nasr james franklin franklin
A Decade After Jamey Rodemeyers Death, His Parents Are Still Trying to Protect Kids From Homophobia and Bullying

TIME's Top Stories

10:07 min | Last month

A Decade After Jamey Rodemeyers Death, His Parents Are Still Trying to Protect Kids From Homophobia and Bullying

"Brought to you by audible a decade. After jamie wrote a myers death. His parents are still trying to protect kids from homophobia and bullying by madeleine carlisle. It has been ten years since the death of fourteen year. Old jamey wrote meyer. A williamsville new york teen whose suicide further turned a national spotlight on the issue of lgbtq mental health and bullying in may of twenty eleven a few months after he came out to friends as bisexual jamie participated in the it gets better social media campaign founded by journalist. Dan savage and his partner. Terry miller the campaign served as an attempt to combat suicide among lgbtq youth with video testimonials from lgbtq adults and allies reassuring kids and teens that their lives improved after they faced harassment in their adolescence in his video jamie shared that he faced harassment and bullying for his sexuality at school but wanted queer kids to know that it does get better his death by suicide just a few months later. On september eighteenth twenty eleven sparked an outpouring of grief and outrage across america. National news stories highlighted the relentless cruel harassment jamie had received including numerous posts on forms spring and anonymous qna based social networking site popular with teens. At the time telling him to kill himself. No one in my school cares about preventing suicide. While you're the ones calling me gay slur and tearing me down wrote a. Meyer had blog on his tumbler account on september eighth purry report by the washington post. He wrote the next day. I always say how bullied i am but no one listens. What do i have to do. So people will listen to me in the decade. Since jamie's death his mother tracy wrote a meyer tells time that we got so many messages from people who told us they were considering suicide and they heard jamie story and reached out to us and they said he saved my life. I mean hundreds of people. I know he has touched people and i just wanted to continue. She said in a september fifteenth interview. I want people who have heard of him to hear about him again. And i want people who haven't heard about him to hear about him. Some progress has been made for. Lgbtq writes in that last ten years but queer teens in the us are still uniquely vulnerable. A national survey undertaken between october and december twenty twenty by the suicide prevention nonprofit. The trevor project found that forty. Two percent of lgbtq youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year including more than half of transgender and non binary youth per the trevor project. Lesbian gay and bi youth seriously contemplate suicide at nearly three times the rate of their heterosexual peers tracy and her husband. Tim have pledged to continue spreading. Jamie's message of self acceptance and tolerance. Time spoke with the rota myers ahead of the ten year anniversary of jamie's death about their son's life and legacy and the progress yet to be made time in the ten years since jamie's death you and your family of work to combat bullying and homophobia. What is your work entailed. Tracy wrote a meyer when it comes to bullying and suicide. Nobody wants to talk about it. We used to talk to jamie about it all the time when he was younger then as he got older you know getting into the teenage years. He was kind of like. Oh yeah. I'm not gonna talk about things as much. But after he died people were reaching out to us. We decided right then and there to get the message out to kids that feel alone. That are getting bullied or are considering suicide. We want kids to know that they have options to seek help. It was just very important to us for kids to see jamie as a human being just like them and that he can teach us all a lesson about bullying and ignorance so any opportunity. We had whoever asked whatever age group we would go and do talks tim meyer wherever we were invited. We would go even cross country. What i used to say in our talks to schools is you are who you are and you are special. You have to love yourself and accept yourself. You are not alone time. What is it been like to become advocates in a movement that you would never have hoped to have to lead. Have you received any backlash and doing your work tracy. It hit me. I at jamie's funeral. Lgbtq people who we didn't even know showed up to protect us in our family in case there was some kind of disruption that opened my eyes to the fact that this was a possibility bad publicity or bad people coming after us. I was honestly very shocked that we didn't really get one ounce of backlash to be honest. Ninety nine percent was all good. Maybe one percent of people have said anything bad but it doesn't really affect us time looking back on the past decade. What have been some of your biggest takeaways from that work tim. One of the biggest takeaways for me is that. I don't think that the school systems really do care about bullying as much as they say they do. I think it's all just talk. Maybe in some cases. But i would say the majority just fluff it off his kids being kids. They should take bullying a little bit more seriously. Just as an example at the beginning of the school year the kids at jamie's former school get together with an administrator and they go over all the rules and keep in mind. our daughter. Eliza is in the audience it comes up to the bullying part and this is the year after jimmy had passed and the administrator said well. I know you've heard a lot about bullying. But i guess i have to talk about this. And then he went through it in like thirty seconds. Tracy how can you say that. My daughter came home and she was like. You've got to be kidding me. They knew she was still at the school. Tim another thing that i've taken away from this experiences. Just how many kids there are that. Need to talk to somebody in schools about being bullied for being gay or just being different in some way there should be more people or ways that these kids can talk and get their feelings out tracy. I was really shocked when we went to these talks and such. I remember how it was. When i was a kid you'd go into an auditorium injured. Wanted to end but people would stand in line to talk to us afterwards and say i'm having this trouble i don't know what to do. I don't know how to tell my parents. I'm like well. Where are your parents. And they'd point like ten feet away and here they're willing to talk to somebody that they don't even know because they know what we experienced. And what jamie went through. So they can relate time. You made the point. Tracy that people don't like to talk about suicide. And there's a real stigma around discussing the topic and risk. How do you think we can combat this tracy. Jamie didn't even survive two weeks in high school. We didn't know that there were support groups for example if schools could get education on resources to the parents and the kids that would help if there were interventions especially to the new freshman class. Hey we know things are tough. Here's the people you can go to. If you're ever feeling this or offering up a suicide prevention hotline. Tim we need to start talking to kids and listening honestly about suicide time. You've both said you want to continue to amplify jamie's message. What does that entail tracy. It's really around acceptance. Be who you are love. Who you are. Don't let anyone take your freedom in your life away from you. Jamie was a very beautiful soul. People told me which. I didn't know that even though he was all sad and getting bullied if they came to school and got bullied he would take care of them. Saying you know love yourself. Don't let ignorant people get to you. Even though deep down he was going through it. He was there to help others time. What would you like readers to remember on the ten year anniversary of. Jamie's death tim. We're still talking about homophobic bullying and we shouldn't be because it shouldn't still be happening. More people need to get serious about this problem. Tracy there have been days where it feels like. It just happened yesterday. It's been ten years of anger of sadness. The reason people clung to this story so much is because jamie was such an advocate when you're bullying someone like that even if they don't take their own life it's a tragic thing for everybody. Jamie was fourteen and a half. He's almost been gone as much as he lived. And no one had the right to make him feel like he did not belong in this world interested in learning more about the world outside your door try audible. It has everything you love listening to including an extensive collection of exclusive originals podcasts and audiobooks like green lights and unconventional memoir written and narrated by matthew mcconaughey or hero behind the scenes account of an electrifying. Broadway show turned movie with in the heights finding home try audible for free with a thirty day. Trial when you sign up at audible dot com.

jamie madeleine carlisle Old jamey tracy meyer rota myers Terry miller Tracy williamsville Dan savage tim meyer Jamie Tim the washington post Meyer america new york
Fresh Take: Ellen Kahn On Supporting Our LGBTQ Kids

What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

39:55 min | 4 months ago

Fresh Take: Ellen Kahn On Supporting Our LGBTQ Kids

"With parenting amy likes to say there's always that thing in a thing. Parenthood is full of twists and turns and ups. And let's be honest down and motion sickness sometime. Oh yes always motion sickness. We want to tell you about a new parenting podcast. That captures all those moments and it's called stroller coaster sterler coaster is hosted by faith. Staley whom you guys might know from sunday morning on. Cbs and wait wait. Don't tell me on. Mpr roller coasters. A podcast for parents of kids of all ages. It's smart it's fun. It's super informative. Rollercoaster offers parenting experts plus guests with inspirational real life. Parenting stories rollercoaster is created by munchkin. The most beloved baby lifestyle brand in the world subscribe or follow stroller coaster. A parenting podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to fresh take from what fresh hell laughing. In the face of motherhood this is margaret. And this is amy and today. We're talking to ellen kong. She's the senior director of programs and partnerships at the human rights campaign in her role ellen provides national leadership and expertise in public education and advocacy efforts on behalf of lgbtq youth and families ellen has shaped innovative system change work in child welfare education and healthcare. She's nationally recognized as an expert on lgbtq family life and lgbtq use ellen is also a proud mom of two fabulous teenage daughters today. We'll talk with alin about how parents can create a home environment. That affirms accepts. Lgbtq children and how to advocate for them in the larger world. Welcome allen thank you. I served so interesting. Well we like a good bio we always say. Listen we set you up for success but then you gotta deliver listen the big bio means we expect big things exactly so since mrs pride month we wanna talk with you ellen about how we as parents were straight or gay can create a home environment. That affirms accepts are lgbtq. Children can we talk about lgbtq and what that means and entails for people who might feel familiar sure so lgbtq. The acronym is lesbian gay bisexual transgender queer. Those are identities that many people in our community having claimed but it doesn't really exhausted. I mean they're young. People killer who identifies hand sexual gender queer gender fluid all kinds of language that might be newer to some people but generally speaking. Lgbtq mental encompass. Anybody who is not six jenner. Not heterosexual. I also use the term. Soji quite a bit which is sexual orientation gender identity expression as urgi and sometimes we're just talking about surgery. Gender identity generally for example a resume human being has sexual orientation and gender identity and gender expression. I can get stock. Sometimes i quit. I understand this. But i don't understand pan sexual or i understand non binary but i don't understand this. I guess it's kind of not our job as parents to understand such as support because it seems to me. This conversation is continually evolving. Yes for sure languages evolving. I do a lot of training folks. Who are you know my age. People who are working and shell welfare teaching and kanter troll. Schools are working in pediatrician's offices. And sometimes i do see a little glazing over when we talk about all the ways in which people are self identifying and it's often say as it's not as if young people today have a totally different set of feelings and experiences and attractions. That say i had for eight years ago. Just said there is such a nuanced understanding and identifying and talking about what those things mean so it's just kind of a more of i think were vast language like a deeper understanding of the complexity of sexuality and gender and gender expression and what to say to folks our age is you don't really have to keep up with the language you don't have to know every single thing and shurmur what it means. I think it's just being open and being serious one of the things. We talk a lot about on. The podcast is like. How can we widen ourselves. How can we open ourselves up to different experiences. Sometimes we get hung up on this thing of this. All seems to be moving very fast. I don't understand it. And we're just trying to widen our language to be able to excess. The experiences our children are having verses like our children are somehow finding something brand new that may or may not be real right exactly and it is all real and i feel like it's gift for this younger generation that they have some. I mean it's of inciting being ever go online part of bitch set. Lgbt to people are so much more visible generally much more accepted not just look at public opinion polling. There's no seventy plus percent of people feel that people should have full equality. Should not ever be fired because of who they are should be able to raise june all those kinds of things so yes a different world. I- gift for kids for sure. And also i think the challenge for some people but a worthwhile challenge is finding the gift for ourselves as well my friend. Alexandra billings who is transgender. Was she just did a post about with her mother-in-law talking about she is transgender. She and her wife were married. Probably in the late eighties and her mother-in-law was somewhat franken talking about like. I didn't know what to make of this. I had known this alexandra before as a different person in my mind and that she was able to talk about like i would have missed the gift of this life of my daughter and the love of her life spending their lives together and having an amazing existence. If i hadn't been able to take that wideness than enough to have this experience of these two amazing people. Yeah i think that's really smart. She's really one of my favorite people. She's an incredible speaker. If you find her alexsandr billings. You might know her from the show. Transparent a put a link. Turn the show notes. Yeah we'll link to on the show you can find our oliver. Yes she's fantastic. I think you know one of the things. I hear from parents pretty often. I talk about this. Is i think that for most parents. We have some idea from the time our children come our lives of sort of what the future might hold for them. You know we typically if we give birth to adopt a child who has a female anatomy. We sort of have this idea. She'll grow up to marry men. Have children you know. Have this kind of lice. I don't mean that like until we super-rigid but there's just sort of this you know narratives that most of us grew up with in that shirley. The majority of people is probably true partially true. That is you know that you're gonna be straight you're going to be six gender. You're going to marry someone of the opposite section or all these kinds of things. And i think i think we also started. Our children are going to be healthy. They're gonna be happy. They're going to succeed in school. And you know as parents many of those things. Don't unfold exactly as we had hoped right. Are i always wanted a kid who want to throw a ball with the front. Like a majok right. One of my kids had any interest whatsoever in sports. A little disappointment. Certainly not huge what. My kids is super successful academically. Either one has struggled a bit and we just have to accept our chance for who they are. They each have their own journey. And i think we it's ideal for our children if we have the same openness to who they're gonna love they're gonna be attracted to how are going to express their gender. their gender is going to be. It might not be what we think and that everything. We are saying enduring. From the time our kids can hear and our in our homes is laying the groundwork for whether undertaken really come to full fruition in every way right in terms of a are as a creative person who are academically who they are in terms of the kind of personality they have their physical abilities. And i think that it's hard for a lot of parents i mean. I think it's real a lot of parents that they're scared. They're disappointed in there. Maybe just you know angry. That they have a child who's lgbtq they don't want a shaming to them in to set of beliefs. They have or have been handed which they are. Maybe they're worried about their child will be all these are should legit but it and the you know even if your reaction is isn't great in the moment of worrying you have no. Gb child literally what you say to them and the space made for them and the reassurance you give your love mendel you'll always be there for them even if you don't understand kind of like maybe what. Alexandra billings mother-in-law was grappling. With is. i don't understand this. But i love you and i'm gonna sort of figure this out with you. I was looking at statistics for lgbtq youth there at a higher risk of depression and self harm and things like that. And i just wanna be clear not because of their identity but due to the hostility they experience in the wider world. Which is part of what parents are worried about. My when their kid comes out that they're going to have a difficult experience. But anyway i read a study saying that the acceptance of parents was actually the number one factor in an adult living. Lgbtq who thought they're living a happy life was had their parents accepted them so it's an absolutely crucial. Yeah i mean. There's a ton of science around. This i think most level-headed letting people would say it's kind of a no brainer right that if you support your kid you're gonna do better but we look at us. We have decades of a peer reviewed research and backup up that wonderful instinctive hours that wonderful sense of parenting means and it is. Yeah it's When kids are like our kids. Lgbtq kids even in this moment where we've made so much progress socially employees we've got you know celebrities and elected officials and athletes. You're out crowd. Lgbtq folks young people are going through some inner turmoil even when their parents and their families are pretty open and accepting which just happening developmentally when you're eight. Ten twelve fourteen years old is not affected so much by the fact that you know many leading corporations would be happy to hire you. That's not your number one factor when you're nine yes salon game. It's like am. I in my ouch am i same or other when my parents love me will you know. Is there you kind of pick up. Shame and stigma you pick up that you are different in some way and so even with some good foundational things like supportive parents. You know people who have made clear they will accept you. You can still go to bed at night and stare at the ceiling worrying about you know what your life is going to be. An part of that is that there is still a ton of anti lgbtq sentiment. They're still a ton of like teasing that goes on with kids especially around like gender expression like there's so much policing boys wearing a pink shirt or boys a little bit get it a little bit more like chinon or non-conforming boys get a lot more teasing they're targeted much more than girls weren't for me at least in those younger years but cheeser link you know. They're very perceptive around wins okay. And what's not. Which is why i always come back to. And it's so important to talk about research literally everything you're saying is apparent around. Your kids is shaping whether they're gonna be able to accept who they are if they have same sex attraction or questioning their gender of looking for signs and making themselves. I mean. I grew up in a home where you know was shamed for the kind of clothes i wanted to wear. I was reached tomboyish. I was there was an expectation that i was going to be into boys. I mean all those things we say like oh you know she must really like you or you know right. Is that your boyfriends. Yeah and kids even if you do be very affirming person instill say that out of habit or maybe you have a there's a grandparent or ankle or avi says those kinds of things just i can say from my experience the message in those things that i heard growing up. Was there certain things. We're going to be okay and we're gonna get positive reinforcement for my parents and other things. Were not going to be okay. There was no space being made for me to be essentially. Who i was and i don't think my parents had any clue. Does some instincts they said and did were actually starting to weigh on me when i was six seven eight nine years old. I think that this idea of age when this starts and how early we need to start on. This is a place where some people are pretty confused. I'm talking about myself. I want to talk about that as soon as we get back sometimes at night by like a glass of wine but if you open a whole bottle you know you end up either pouring half of it out three days later or drinking more than you really wanted to and a tuesday night and that is why i was so excited to try usual wines. Usual winds comes in single. Serve six ounce bottles about a glass and a half of wine super-sleek. They've got red blend. Arosa end sparkling white called groot plus usual spritz a low calorie wine cooler in. Here's the kicker each serving of usual wines with grapes from california vineyards has just eighty-three calories and they're fermented until there's no more sugar. Usual are really delicious. And they're perfect to serve at a party or just keep around for evenings at home. Check out their website. Usual winds dot com and use our discount code fresh. Hell for eight dollars off your first order. It's really good and you get to try your first glass on us. That's usual wines. Dot com and the code. Fresh hell for eight dollars off usual winds the perfect glass of wine in a bottle. Amy i always say i'm going to start reading more but this summer. I'm actually doing it and you know why. Why literati book clubs for grownups where the world's most inspiring people share the books that most inspired them. So i joined literati. Joseph cambell miphan meaning book club but once school is out. I just might switch to ellen. Hildebrand club for some beach reads mean no shame in in wrong with that no matter which club you pick the literati app helps you engage with a diverse community of readers from all around the world and talk about melas. Favorite books with malala literati delivers their monthly book club. Picks straight to your door. You can spend less time finding a good book and more time actually reading one move freely between clubs or use the standard membership to access everything and choose the books you want. Delivered all book club members can shot the entire literati library with discounts up to fifty percent off and more download. The app and you can see all sorts of content about your book plus chat with the whole literati community. I love this from guys reimagine. What book club can be redeem your free trial at literati. Dot com slash. What fresh hell head to literati dot com slash. What fresh hell to learn more and read more with literati. That's l. i. T. r. a. T. i. literati dot com slash. What fresh hell okay. we're back. How do we start these conversations with our kids. How do we avoid may be some of the mistakes of the past in having affirming conversations but also speak on a level that's developmentally appropriate for kids. Yeah great questions. I think so. Many parents struggle with this didn't get the rare parent who has like a ton of comfort talking about you know our bodies and traction and section. I think you know just an example. I gave her minutes ago about how you can say. Your girl who's playmate is a way. Oh you have a boyfriend well. Isn't that sort of like sexualizing. Your child in way and it is and so the fear and we do that routinely without even thinking about it frankly. I don't like that. And i worked really hard to not do that with my kids. But somehow that doesn't really make people uncomfortable. So since you have books in your his rome or your playroom that include some of the books. That have a tumor to family right. There's not enough sex just like any children's book it's about family. It's about who you love and who you and how you care for each other so one of the ways. You can create kind of a sense of anything's possible. And i just went heavy. Is you know whether you're or kids are lgbt cure. Now were in five or ten or twenty years or not. This is really important because you're also raising children to live in a an increasingly diverse world where they'll have. Lgbtq friends the work in stores and in restaurants in companies that expect you to be comfortable in a diverse environment hopefully up sanders when a kid gets bullied. Not one of the bullies. So you're planning seeds not only soda if you happen to have a kid who's lgbtq. They're getting those early messages. That it's okay but you're straight or sis will be getting messages that we really see everyone as equal and important and valued and it's okay to be lgbtq. I mean i think so. Many of the kids who are sort of bowling and teasing me. Junior do that today. They got messages in their homes and maybe at their church or in their summer camp or wherever you know that being gay is not cool and like yes you can. Jesus gay kids or you know. So i think you're also alternating the kind of social emotional skills in your children that make them good friends. Joji btcu kits and make good citizens and good citizens to all people to i mean. Listen if your kid is bullying someone because they think they're in other and that's a problem. Yeah i was just gonna say so part of the planning stages thinking about you know you have books that have different kinds of families different kinds of characters. Are we in a program called welcoming schools and the website. Welcome you start. Orrick has amazing book. Lists for kids different asians in stages prosekey through twelve but like a de emphasis on accused from five to lots of books for younger children. This is just again like exposing your kids whether it's stories about she into our different backgrounds cultures just coming to the country consumer black brown. She's different abilities. Experiences like has books in your house in just says your kid. These are all possible. Ways of being families are all possible ways of you know who you might live with how you might express yourself and things like that. I think when you're watching television with your children and their characters are transparent. Jerseys or there's anti lgbtq sentiment express you know you're going to make a teachable moment out of that you know you're gonna say hey. I really like how these two people really took care of one another or oh do you have any gay friends school. You know like just use it as a way to have a conversation with your kiss sometimes not the bullying but the lack of support and disdain might come from our own extended families and i wanted to talk about your parent of an algebra t q kid who's coming out for the parent. There's kind of your own coming out experience in a way right and i have seen. It expressed the sort of like okay. You can be who you are but can you turn down in front of grandpa. 'cause i don't wanna get into it. That's maybe not the best approach. And how do we support a parent. Who's in that situation where the extended family is the problem yet. It's really tough for me. I would think at the center of those decisions is. What's going to help my kid be. Okay how do i reduce or eliminate toxicity stress. I think it's reasonable that when a child discloses who they are that a grandparent or valley friends or even parent struggles a little bit. But there's a difference between struggling and having a private conversation in your bedroom between the parents when the kids asleep to say. I'm trying really hard here. I'm really troubled with this. You know what are you saying. You think we should maybe find a support group or you know you you know as your some will be could talk to you or why do you think this is so hard for me. But you're not doing that in front of kit right like they're you know parents and grandparents and other family members you know trying to stay s- find the right space to talk about what's hard. Maybe you need a good cry. that's okay it's just literally what you're saying to your child and what you're doing in front of your child is important. They're like what they're hearing thorough ears and what they're seeing that. The role is with their feeling. Much of a heart is really important. And i didn't get your journey. I think that you know a lot of parents and grandparents are initially rejecting or afraid. Maybe they do worry that their child not going to have a happy life depends on where they get their information and what they believe and who they know right i mean maybe they don't know what transfers maybe i don't know about sexual maybe the and so like there's just thinking the worst and i think many many folks i think it's rare that a parent or grandparent literally get stuck in that place of i can't do this or you know being gay stanton whenever that reaction is and it's there's a little time there lots of resources there's lots of support and you have to you know decide what your patients here like. You know as grandma's coming over or listen to you. And they refuse to use your kids pronoun or they. You know shane your kid like it's really tough but i have seen parents drawer really hard line and say no. We're not coming home for thanksgiving this year. You're not coming over every friday night anymore until you accept my child for who he is or who they are as seen families have to really restructure themselves but more often i see families move into a place of acceptance and i think part of the work of the immediate family we were talking to susan katz miller about interface families which i think have a lot of some of these same issues and we have some special needs stuff going on with our families some of the same issues right. I don't believe that that's not a real thing. That's outside of our understanding. They thing that's going on with. Your kid is real. Whether it's a illness. A special need a different faith. And she talked about the idea of a sacred circle and creating a sacred circle around your immediate family and within that sacred circle these are the rules and that people your invite into our sacred circle is understanding what happens within it. And that's how you get invited in and we may visit you outside of our secret circle but we come back into this space where we protect each other. We respect each other's needs abilities. Whatever we respect everything that people are within here. And i think if you set that sacred circle up in a smart way is swings in arrows can come in from the outside but your kids have a sense that like in here we respect each other and come at us world like we're ready for you and i think that resonates with me with this issue too. Yeah absolutely. i think that's essentially what you do is you can use with us. Who has our back. And those are the folks re hang out with. I mean it could be into my come out as trans and to come out as trans sometimes as young as you know three or four soon as they can articulate how they feel certainly elementary school age. Heart of that sacred circle. That is coming into shape might include. Not just your team family members but wish your kids friends parents are going to say you know what like. I don't want our kids friendship to does all over this. You know i have your back and that family goes home and they read and they learn and they're like okay. There's this makes sense. And because i'll tell you honestly kids themselves don't scratch their heads a whole lot when they burn very simply through like say i am jazz. That's just about jazz jennings. When she was six and you know felt like knew she wasn't girl even though she had a boy body and you know like was able to them become the girl she knew she was like literally kids. Get a story. That's nice and concrete like that and it's often. The parents are struggle. So sigrid sir include. You know some of your his friends and their parents. Who have you know played with you and play soccer together or hang out outside together. Sh- sometimes it's a really just a couple of key family members. I think that's a really like that concept and look. There's a lot of pain. Sometimes when certain folks jumped ship feel betrayed people. There's a loss to parents. I've talked to parents of lgbtq canto. Not only you know went through that journey with their kids and solar kids struggle until they got to the place of really landing feeling loved and accepted but the parents themselves lawson friends or family. Yeah it's real. It's hard that's right. I don't want him. Presented critic of circle happiness. Ensues like how life works unfortunate right right one other thing really quickly wanted to mention we just look at the research were more data about. Lgbtq young people like the cdc ever two years they were national survey of high school students and a few years ago they added sexual orientation gender identity to the demographic section so now not only getting better sense of like how many kids are. Identifying is farthest community share their experiences to not be chance. There are also a couple other national surveys. And what we're seeing is. Roughly nine or ten percent of young people are identifying as not heterosexual lesbian gay bisexual or questioning or sexual orientation and about two percent or so are defying his trans gender or non binary meaning not gender and we also see that the average age of coming out has dropped dramatically safe from like nineteen ninety where it was in eighteen nineteen years old to now sumer between fourteen at sixteen. That's for sexual orientation. I think we don't have enough data but because gender identity is often sort of you can really know your gender identity. It's kind of solidified at much earlier ages than say sexual orientation where your awareness of your sexual orientation is usually pre-adolescents when you start to feel actual like traction and you can you know those butterflies in your stomach. That tends to happen a little bit later but so we have this on one hand. We have this change where young people think again because there are so many were role models. There's literature with bg characters. Tv shows just general acceptance. They can sort of claim at a younger age. This is how i am so there. I see it because the burden of carrying a secret. We know from research. Well where's on your mental health. However the flip side of that is a fourteen year old boy who comes out his gay at home and is accepted great. Fourteen year old boys. You comes out as gay at home and is literally thrown out on the street. Which does happen is in a fourteen year old boy on the street. And i talk a lot about how in my generation most young people most gibt folks. We just are hedge down and try to like get through high school soon at the very least you could be so sufficient right. You wouldn't get a job. Some people put their heads down until they got from college because they couldn't risk losing their parents financial support or the security of their home life in order to go to college whenever shooter dream was and that's not like this younger generation. Of course it's true for some people who are terrified in our survey of jeans a couple years ago fifty percent were not out to their immediate family and others stripper said half of them had heard lots of negative things said at home about. Lgbtq people's so they were afraid to disclose so they're carrying this burden like they know who they are and they're carrying new berlet because the burden is great. You are rejected by your family. It's your shamed ushered and at were thrown out of the house. I mean you can't manage you can't survive in healthy way thirteen or fourteen or fifteen or sixteen. You take the temperature the sort of climate of your home as a safe place for. Lgbtq people like where's the conversation like at home watch to tone it other conversations about lgbt folks. There jimmy talked to your children about all the different ways. You might feel like. I used to say my kids a lesbian i. Of course i had. I was tuned. Engine this in a win. It most nano giudici. Parents might not be. But i would say you know when you grow up and you love someone right or if you get married or you know things that are not about assuming you're going to be heterosexual none of that assuming you're have certain rights dislikes so even just like that kind of language is again like creating a home. The she's possibilities for young people and doesn't huntington's into this sort of like rigid trajectory of life. Like you're going to be this way this. Wear these clothes like these things. These people marry these people. Because you don't necessarily know if you have an take you person living in your house. No let's take a break and we'll come back and explore that a little bit further letting people into our mess isn't always easy but no matter what we shouldn't walk through tough times alone and with better help no matter where you live. You don't have to better help. Is there for you with confidential inconvenient online counseling with counselors in all fifty states. Better help therapists are available by text. Chat phone end video on your desktop or on the better health app. It's not a crisis line. It's actual counseling with professionals who specialize in trauma family conflicts grief. Whatever you have going on better help is affordable and private and their therapist offer counselling for individuals couples and teens to let a questionnaire to help. Better assess your needs. And you'll be matched with the counselor. You love plus financial aid is available for those who qualify join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Go to better help dot com slash fresh and use the code fresh to get ten percent off your first month of better help. That's better help. H. e. l. p. better help dot com slash and the code fresh to get ten percent off your first month. you know. i like getting some protein in my kids in the morning but two of them really don't like for breakfast so it was kind of a struggle until i got them some magic spoon cereal all the flavors kids like but is super nutritious. It's got thirteen to fourteen grams of protein per serving plus zero sugar for net grams of carbs. And one hundred and forty calories. Magic spoon is kito friendly. Gluten free grain. Free free carb ngoma. Gmo free and when you go to magic spoon dot com slash fresh. You can build your custom. Bundle from all these flavors. Cocoa fruity frosted peanut butter blueberry and cinnamon. And i'm here to say that cinnamon magic spoon is also available to you as an afternoon snack. You can thank me later. It anytime really go to magic spoon dot com slash fresh to grab a custom bundle of cereal and try it today and use our promo code fresh at checkout to save five dollars off your order. Magic spoon is so confident in their product. It's backed with a one hundred percent happiness guarantee so if you don't like it for any reason they will refund your money. No questions asked get your next delicious bowl of guilt free cereal at magic spoon dot com slash fresh and use the code fresh to save five dollars off. I think this idea of keeping our homes open to the widest possible range of experience for our kids is good. We also saw. I live in new york new yorker. We live in areas where there's a lot of acceptance and there's not a lot of i would say pushback i feel like we've gotten the memo where we live for a shorthand had say it but i know we have a lot of listeners who live in different places where that is not the case. What about people who might believe that opening the world to their kids and saying you know all these choices have equal value. Encourages kids to become lgbtq and they feel worried about that. If i offer my kid all these choices they're going to choose something. I want to offer them the right choices only. Yeah well yeah. I mean maybe you also want your. You know like you're hoping your kid wants to go to like this over our school that you went shoe or the right or are they're going to be the captain of the football team like you were. Yeah i mean if you only talk to them about the things that are okay with your limiting the world. I think well one thing i just. I don't mean this literally like choice. But i do wanna just tank a teachable moment. Because it's important to remind folks that search for information gender identity are not things you choose. It's just sort of the blueprint. Were war with you know. And we either get you kind of self actualize in every way were suppressed and repressed and can so you know for me i think about. I can draw from my own experience right. I grew up in a fairly traditional home in the sixties and seventies where the only coach choice that i saw in front of me was compulsory. Heterosexuality girls are where these closed during these things and i was not fitting into that and as much as my parents and the people around me were only showing me that it didn't matter it can change me to be who they thought. I should be right just in the same way that by even opening the door to say to your children some girls. Mary girls some girls. Mary boys link. That's not suddenly going to mean that your girls like oh great. I'm going to marry a girl. I was just about to put on this dress and do this thing but now that i see this yeah i've changed my mind. Yeah and i think it's just kinda wish making sure your children know that there are different kinds of families for example like or that you know that there are so many different ways to be aboard to be a girl and some kids. Don't even feeling like a boy. Or girl i mean to me. That's just stating a fact right. Some people in jewish people are catholics people. Are you know christian. Some people are easiest insight into fact of the world we live in. It's not necessarily saying and you might child. You will only be has like bum getting to main takeaways from our whole conversation today one. Is that your discomfort as a parent which may occur is a journey. Something you're gonna move through. You might be uncomfortable with having an autistic child to but you're going to have to get through it right and similarly. This is a process but that support for your kids can come even when you're still working for your discomfort. You don't have to get okay with that before you protect them. Yeah i mean if you say to your head like you caught me off guard. I'm not sure. I totally understand. But i love you. I'm here for you like to say that is literally something that could save your kids like to just get that much out of your mouse or nuts the other takeaway i had this is that you know. We can fear that the world won't be kind or easy on our children who are different but it is our parental words and actions. There are the best line of defense. We're gonna protect them. The motion the things we fear if we support them yes and i love that you just said that because for all your listeners who have younger kids i think we all worry like if i have a child who has a physical disability or has a learning challenge or whatever the case might be like worry that our children are not going to log or supported or safe while all of us have the ultimate responsibility to raise our children to be nice kind children right so if my kid is fire trans lesbian or queer or gender fluid or whatever and your head is not but was raised to be kind to all people and raised in a family. Where there was no patience for antibeach you name warriors. You know that's creating a better world for my kit. So you know it's all of us together chiseling away raisin parents are fearful. Let's just not raise families anymore. And i know schools are doing a lot more. I'm not saying people literally erase bullies. But i think when we interrupt some of those behaviors in our kids it helps. I know schools more and more are really trying to address. You know all kinds of bias face bullying including bias pudding by about race or other things so you know. I think we all could do that for one another kids. Can you point us to some places people can go. They've heard our conversation and they're like. I want to dig a little deeper on this. Yeah well for listening. Who have a kid who you know. Maybe you're observing something or the kid has shared something. They are either already identifying as ldp. Tq or the shared something about researcher in two zero identity makes you think might be pf l. a. Dot org is. A national reservation has tons of chapters parents. Lgbtq kids and they have support groups and urges great resources. There's also this. Huge facebook called serendipity own slash and. It's a twenty thousand mostly moms of lgbtq. Kids who share a line is gorgeous. It's beautiful slice of humanity to see how these parents share with one another support each other. Some folks coming to that just starting a journey and terrified and they take a risk and reward and they don't understand why seventeen year old child is to either transit understand. I'm scared and then you know. Two months later. Dave just gained so much wisdom and support insight and seductive resource there tunnel books i mentioned welcoming schools. Which has a lot of resources for parents especially of younger kids and if you have younger kids welcoming schools is kind of program. You would hope that your kids are in school. Principal would say well. We need this in our school in it. So in addition to things like book lists like frequently asked questions program. Itself is a really great program for schools. I think those are some of the things that that just that. Come to mind right away. We'll link to all of those. Yeah and allen. Toss where we can find you on the internet you know. Tell us where we can find you right now. We have muffins. We want to protect us. I love that. Will i work at the human rights campaign and you can find me. There's information about me on the human rights campaign website. I'm not a big social media user. By i am that's about. We'll find you there one and done. Well thanks so much for talking to us today. This is such a great conversation. Thank you allen. It was my pleasure a really enjoyed it.

ellen Alexandra billings ellen kong Soji amy Joseph cambell Hildebrand club malala literati T. r Staley Joji btcu jenner franken susan katz miller mendel Cbs
Irreverent Media Spotlight: A Tiny Revolution w/ Kevin Garcia

Exvangelical

42:04 min | 4 months ago

Irreverent Media Spotlight: A Tiny Revolution w/ Kevin Garcia

"Support for this podcast comes from invented together. I bet you didn't know that inventing activity by black inventors peaked in eighteen ninety nine and it has never recovered black and hispanic college graduates patented half the rate of white college graduates. That's just one of the reasons why you need to know about invent together. When our patent system gets more diverse will get stronger and more successful. Find out how you can help. Diverse inventors and unleash economic opportunity at invent together dot org. You're listening to a special episode of a revolution brought to you by beloved arise. Beloved arise is the first and only lgbtq youth group for youth of faith in the entire world. And this friday june fourth. They're going to be releasing their first called serenade songs for the beloved volume one to learn more about that. Please go to beloved rise dot org slash serenade and to listen to an exclusive track early. Stay tuned after this episode to hear one of those incredible tracks. That i swear is going to make you cry Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the show. Boom boom boom. Hello friends kevin garcia and. Welcome back to serenade. The podcast brought to you by beloved rise and me kevin g on a tiny revolution. My podcast that. I've been doing for the past three years where we explore ordinary people living mabilu schnee lives. It was a natural partnership win junior. Who is the executive director of beloved rise. When he said. I want to do something. Big to celebrate queer youth this here in a way that was extensive and expansive in that involved more than just the usual suspects. So i said let's to a podcast series. Obviously because that is what i do. And so i not only got to a listen to the alabama early which influence or perks guys own so sorry. Repent anyways The music is absolutely incredible and not to mention in features so many of my own personal friends which i find amazing and this particular podcast. I'm so excited to share with you. Because i've known this person for so long and seen how they've grown and really become an incredible queer man openly. Oh just an incredible beautiful human. His name is blake lindell and Blake is goes by the artist named courier and he's going to discuss in the podcast. He writes songs about other people. He says i'm not. These stories are mine. I'm just the delivery guy and today on the podcast we're going to be discussing The song he wrote called forty times he'll go into the story but a story about a queer youth who's actually heart of the beloved through. Alex and there was a time when alex is having a really hard time Mental health wise was having a hard time holding on and so Alex's mom reached out chew beloved rise and there were these amazing forty letters in this box. Immediately i don't know why i'm telling you the story earlier i'm going to ruin it for us. Let me shut up and tell you about if this is what i want to say personally. This is my personal connection. Wake i've known him for a while as he was becoming himself and learning how to love himself learning how to come into his own and it has just been a pleasure to watch them blossom into the beautiful powerful creative human that he is and i'm just so pleased that he's here to share his journey of faith to share. Why music like this is important in. Why we're both so passionate about the work of beloved rise and i know it. Sounds like a fucking kitschy thing. But i'm telling you. I love this group so much because i mean god. Can you imagine what would have been like to have a youth group. That didn't shame you a youth group that said now you can wear that. It doesn't really matter if the boys can you know. Mind their own is you know. There's just there's something beautiful about. Lgbtq focused youth group. That is absolutely beyond anything that i could possibly imagine. And i'm so glad to be a part of this and glad that you're going to listen to a new song. Actually we're going to play lakes. The song forty times at the end of the podcasts does state boon Couple of things before we jump in. If you're listening to this podcast awesome. You actually go watch the entire interview on my youtube page. That's youtube dot com slash. Hello i'm kevin in the in. Just check the lincoln. My bio you. Can you can get it there. And if you're watching this on youtube right now you can go over to my podcast. A tiny revolution wherever you can get your podcast and listened to blake's new tune Forty times coming out. This friday june fourth and also one more thing. Please go to the show notes right. Now click the link to save the album on spotify apple music. And then this friday. We're going to share the hell out of this. You know what. I'm saying because we want to get this in the ears of as many queer youth faith as possible and also to mention if you are queer. If you've got any church hurt you've got anything like this is gonna eat so healing for you. I'm already tearing up thinking about this and jeez some okay. Let me not delay you any further. Let me get into this conversation. This beautiful conversation with my friend. Mike lindell aka currier. Hi everyone welcome back to another episode of the serenade tiny revolution collaboration station We're continuously blowing up as you can see on this channel using app. Today i'm talking with blake is not mundell bundle right. It's mundell okay. Mindell blake a month aka currier aka One of the most wonderful and delightful humans. I had the pleasure of Joining in friendship with over the past couple of years might be friend That actually means I think this view the myth. I caught up on this. I know i know. I need to call you more randomly at midnight after hours to see. If you're awake i need to answer more randomly because no unless my calls are like planned ahead. It's like do. I have the social energy. And that's real i. I'm a freak in. Won't let me rephrase it. I'm not afraid. I'm a person who i i would. Just call people randomly. Because i live by myself. All of you know win. The war was still open. I was traveling all over the place. And that's where i would have my social interactions and friendship times conferences and concerts and now but none of the world's opening back up. I'm very excited about hanging out and getting getting back in touch with people. So just say i'm coming to your time this summer so i can't wait to hang perfect. I can't wait either. Yeah it's all of our muscles like our social muscles have atrophied you know so it's like we gotta get back into the gym and backup. It's hard and sometimes the gym is going to you. Wanna go out dancing tonight. And i'm like i can technically do that. Joe biden told me i could and so we did. We had a great time. But then i also caught myself feeling very young all of a sudden in the fact of lake you know. I don't know if you experience as you know when you we all have that one friend who's dislike technically hotter you know According to social standards and when the other boys at the club pay attention to your hot friends and not to you. And you're like wait but what's wrong with me. And i'm like kevin. You're thirty one years old. What are you doing. But i'm usually like i usually intentionally physician myself like in the corner and so normally if people aren't paying attention to me i'm right where i wanna be so go different. Maybe trade places with me. Because that's a need. I need to not need that more But you know we all have our learning curves but we're not here to talk about our social anxiety. That's not what this is about. The you know the next time we'll do but today okay cool. I came specifically to talk to you about serenade. The new album coming out from beloved arise featuring ten beautiful tracks from queer people of faith and allies directly sung and written for crete the faith the world over So let's start off with this musically. Who the hell are you blake. What what kind of. What's your deal in this whole serenade business. Yeah that's that could be a long story but To sum it up. I've been making music under the name currier for the past five issues but i've been playing music my whole life So i'm one of the songs on. The record was written by me. In collaboration with one of an amazing human Who is now a part of the beloved rice community and so yeah june. Actually to me. This was probably February or or january this early this year and I kind of. I told june kinda like what's this music thing that i do is all about. So i kind of I like to write songs about other people's experiences rather than my own styles release music under my own name in its to be more fully just like journaling in music form but then also got currier and With currier alright. Sons about other people's life stories so and that's kind of like the career thing like just picking up a package from one person and delivering it to the listener. I like that. I had no idea the name behind the story behind the name. That's cool. yeah yeah. I'm just i'm just a paper guy. I'm a mailman. But so with this particular song out. I was humbled and honored enough to be the courier for this story By this young person who came out last year and Got as most of us have experienced A bunch of ridicule a bunch of exclusion From their church community and Went into a dark place. And i'm made it attempts at their own life and then after that received Dozens of letters from the beloved rice community as well as other people sharing love and support and it was kind of A pivot moment in this person's life Meant a lot to them. So that's what the song is about And yeah like you said like listening through all this on the record. There's hardly one that acting listen to without crying. Do you know what i mean. I do because when. I got the album when i got linked to listen. I was walking my dog and i'm talking. I forty five seconds into the first song crocodile tears. Yes as i'm walking around and people are looking at crying crying. Yes no the same i was at a. I was right outside the coffee shop because i like calling my order under these people. Just pick up my coffee. And i was like can i. Can i go get my coffee right now or am i going to wait to pull myself together. Am i going to have to like do you know. Breathe into my body and come back. Yes 'cause it really When i was listening to your track which is called forty time forty times is how we pronounce forty x figure figured as much. Yeah yeah. I was just trying to be cool. I think it's cool. I like it. it's you know like when somebody just uses the letter you in a song. Where are you now like. Yes like hips. Hips seeking justin bieber. Yeah thank god. You didn't appropriate. Martin luther king for your album though you know what. I'm saying what i know right now. Different podcasts we just and we pray for him. Every single day Teacher youth pastor of hill song. Of jesus christ have mercy on all of their souls Not that we're here to drag hill song or their noninclusive worship something that actually. I'm always here to drag noninclusive worship but this is. This is something You and i have talked about. This is kind of a phenomenon not really a phenomenon but it is a common occurrence that happens among queer people of faith. Is that when people start to car coming out process like you know for the forty times we often lose access to our spiritual communities we lose access or maybe not even access it. But it's just that songs that remind us of our past like worship songs that were meant to be connecting us to the divine to ourselves become trigger points for so many of us. Was that something that happened for you. Oh yeah so. When you say lose access i i agree with that. It's not you're not just losing physical access road just being exiled from a physical church and a like a community of people around us. It's it also creates this trauma where we almost lose access within ourselves if we access it again. It's like oh my gosh. Last time i approached this. I got hurt. And so. I don't think i can approach this again And that that's like the shitty part about that is that was not our fault but now it's our responsibility to manage that you know. And that's that's the that's just the way that we carry forward but for me personally so i got started in the christian music industry. I came out here. to nashville is where i live And was like. I'm gonna write worship. Sounds like oh yeah wide. Is these rose colored glasses. Like i'm going to lead people closer to jesus in those that i right and in in their congregations on sunday they're going to to to feel his loved and got disillusioned that very quickly. Once i actually like saw behind the curtain of the business. I was in got. This was the biggest Worship music publishing Company at the time so like we wanna talk about hill song like all of that was was a part of this and i i realized you know it's a business like business they've got to turn a buck and at the at the end of the day that's what it's going to be about Was just like. I just want to highlight that real quick. Because that is true of any system within capitalism in general and so true especially of the christian industrial complex and i say not just in music but across the board with the youth programs Missionary stuff churches specially megachurches. It's not sometime a lot of. I don't wanna say a lot of times. I don't know the statistics but what seems to be. The trend is that churches are not focusing on actual people but they're focusing on. How do we keep our profits so that we can maintain a building or a program that serves only a very specific kind of person in a very specific kind of economic status etc. And that's what it is and so it's like there's not a surprise here that the music industry for even the christian music industry is still at the end of the day concerned with one thing and that is how are we gonna pay our bills or and not even like our bills. How are we going to make an excess of money off of these people at the bottom absolutely and then you. Didn't you combine a business plan like a marketing scheme with theology. Girl you mesh all got together and it's like now. We're getting like colt tactics. Keep people in keep people coming and it's like you you mix all that together and that's toxic you know but but yeah like There was. I remember this. This was the last straw for me. There was this one song meeting i went into. I brought this song. We were going to pitch it to this christian rock band at the time and they were like this was the head of the publishing company at the time and he was like. I really love this song. He was like it. Just it says the word. Jesus too much. And so i was like okay. I was like maybe you know it says in the courses and there are a couple of times assistant in the verse. Oh what if we just like. I'll take it on the versus. And he's like. I think we need to take the whole song and so i was like okay like in the back of my head. I'm like y'all the biggest worship music publisher in the world. Like why are we taking this word out of your songs. And he said he's like i'm just thinking in terms of marketability It'll go further. If we take the word jesus out and at that point. I mean you know my thoughts lesson in christianity. I'm barrett at that point. Oh yeah keep going. I'm sorry just narrowly. By this absolutely like at that point. I was just like why. Why am i here. You know like. I'm not here to try to make another dollar for the christian music industry like like i said like i tried to have pretty like pure motives and it was just like i just want to lead people to jesus and jesus name at my songs you know so that was kind of the last offer me at that time right but it's an it's so interesting how i will say there are many of us. Who have you know had like you know very very earnest. Faith i think is how one person described it to me. Recently is like yeah like we like so many of us. This is what i think is so wild. Is we get this. We get accused all the time from conservatives and folks who are not affirming of lgbtq folks that the reason that we leave the church is because we have so little faith that we didn't really believe but really a lot of times. I found that the people who have left the church are are actually the people who are most devout that people who had a a very close relationship with the person of jesus in whatever way you can have a relationship with A metaphysical leader. You know be because kevin like what's keeping what's keeping the folks what's keeping that head of publishing in the church the dollar With what brought us out here. Jesus right my my buddy. Yeah it's like you all of the ones that wanted to take the name of jesus out of your songs. Like i was the one that that i that is. Why insulting when when folks are like you must never been a christian You must never had true faith. Jesus must have never really took root in your heart. It's like that's bullshit as let me tell you know it. It's bullshit and you know it especially because like girl. Like i wouldn't be fighting so hard to get you to recognize who i am and what all of this encompasses if it were not so if it were not so i wouldn't bother you. You know i wouldn't. I wouldn't go off continuously trying to share my story and this is also another reason. Why like this album is come. Together is because the main narrative for queer people of faith are sweeper. In general is that spirituality is not for you. That god is not for you. Jesus is not for you. Love is not for you and we all know. that's bullshit. Oh yeah. And that's that's why. I feel i again. I feel so honored to be part of this project because it is like I wish that i when i was a teenager. Or even when i was like a wide eyed like young songwriter in the music industry. If i'd had a record like this fight heard songs like these. Like there is space for this I can be earnestly seeking the deepest questions of my faith among people who are one also doing that in to care about that journey Yes i mean. I can't wait for people to latch onto this record about it. I am too when you're thinking about You know the the anyone who's gonna listen to us but especially queer youth through faith. Who honestly like what the reason i think you and i are both so passionate about working with and collaborating with beloved arise is because it is the only lgbtq youth group resource of its kind in the world. Right now i think that is equipping. Young people with space to belong space to explore these questions and space to really own their faith. it's one of the reasons that we you know volunteer time volunteer energy and like give give to this group so i want to know if you whoever's going to hear this album one is one thing you want them to walk away knowing after hearing your track and also hearing this whole album First of all you know. I think one of the things that are does especially the the content. I'm trying to do right. I'm trying to take someone's story and give it to somebody else. And i think that act in and of itself whether we're giving other people are stories or someone else's stories with informed voluntary consent right Is because when you hear the experience of another person in that matches your own you feel us alone And that is that's what yeah like. That's what twelve year old blake was longing for was. Is there an experience like this out there. because i'm not seeing it in my immediate harass So i would hope that they walk away affirmed in their experience of Navigating the world from a place. That's off the status quo in a place where the trail is not well-worn yet but there are some of us out here And so yeah i would. I would hope that they feel less alone. Can i tell you when you said that you're gonna have to walk the trail. That's a little less warn. I had chills does run down because that is really what it is. It is I often liken it to this journey where we have to like. You know it's almost like we've been living in this walled city for so long but then like something out in the wilderness. Either were driven out of the city or something in the wilderness calls to us and because of that because we go out there like the the people of the city like our families of origin are faith. Families of origins. Outside of this line of this place is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Don't go there. god's not out there and then we have to to survive and at first sometimes it can be very lonely because we're just like almost like looking down at our feet until as we're walking this well worn path until you know if you let your ears perk up when you hear the music and you realize oh my god. It's not weeping and gnashing of teeth. It's dancing and it's joy and its connection and it's family and at first. Yeah we lose a lot of things as queer folks of faith when we come out. But i will tell you what. I am sure that you can say the same thing. I have gained more authentic friendships and relationships as myself as an openly queer. Human than i ever did when i was pretending to be a straight worship leader one hundred percent. Yeah same yeah. I love that image of of the walled off city too. And i'm hoping that this record is like you mentioned the music outside the walls that maybe this this record is just like a way that we could record that music outside the walls and launch it into the city and that's really what it is it lands. Yeah and that was so cool. I feel like we are on the brink of something very interesting happening within the arts and creative space and faith face because just this past year Sweet fran grace baldrige who Is the musician and assembler I think the way that the articles are saying is that gray similar game stopped the christian music industry and got like yeah and got a career record at the top of the christian charts. And it's just like oh. This is not only reasonable but like this can go mainstream you know. We've got artists like joy. A lot of coon also who is a queer woman of faith. A queer black woman of faith. Who is on jimmy fallon and who is going through and like writing music with like people who have incredible platforms and it just goes to show that lake. You know what we thought was impossible. Just even five years ago is not only possible but it's happening and we get to be a part of that. Yeah so in in that. I hear you know most of us when we leave the city walls that you were talking about. I'm just i'm carrying your metaphor. Bring it i love it is we we. We can't be exiled in most of us are but but it's usually because there is this calling in us to embrace a different narrative. Mortell list considerate different narrative city. Folks have been preaching at us all our lives right. And so. I feel that personally. But i also feel that musically because you know i fought so hard to get into the christian music industry and also cite note like grace's interviews with like christian music industry folks out here so powerful to it. If you haven't seen those like go watch those but With with the music thing. It's like a for so long. I was like. How do i find my niche and write these songs. Where i was like i wanna be. I wanna exist inside the christian music industry but maybe just jason so that people can feel like this heartfelt sense of exploring and wrestling and sometimes being angry with god like i had a song called psalm. Eighty eight which is the only song that that psalm literally ends. Darkness is my closest friend and i latched onto that song because there is no sort of sunnyside to it And then i realized once coming out that i've been like this was my niche along. I was always writing songs for christians. Because i was writing songs for me. Come through now. it's like yeah like with music to that. Was also the calling outside of the city walls to go and you like this always belonged and now you can actually be here. You know fully. That's it coming out being fully yourself like we don't like the the the opposite is true what they say like you find you. Find god when you lose all. Is that weird verse in the bible where jesus says listen. If you want to save your life you gotta lose it. And that's what he's talking about. I think is not so much like the physical loss of life which this is something. I don't know if you've ever had this but when at it such a manipulative thing that christians and conservative faith people do. I've had it said to me is like they say they think because jesus died on a cross they understand what it is to give their life and they will say things like i would die for you. I love you so much that i would die for. You and. I'm like you know nobody's asking you to do that. No one's asking you to brutalize your body. In fact we're asking you to stop the cycle of violence that you think is necessary in order to belong to god and i think that is something that people of faith. Queer christians are really bringing into this conversation. Is that what has happened to us. And what is happening to queer. Youth is violence. You know. we're not building space for queer youth. We're not building space for trans youth. In fact like you know in states all across the south right. Now there are so many legislative pieces of bullshit. That are coming to just ruin a lot of people's lives ruined a lot of people's experiences in like making people incredibly unsafe and i also need to point out like so near those like some of them are focused on trans-youth but the majority of them i feel like at least like adversely affect trans-youth in particular and i honestly like that's been one of the things that i've been thinking about it throughout the course of making this record is i just i feel the weight of that of all of the legislation everywhere. i carry these metaphors forward in the city when they hear the music and it interrupts the narrative that's going on. They're gonna fight harder to impose their narrative. Yes right In so i you know again. I think that this record. I hope that it is a bomb to to folks Especially those intersections right. Yeah i think it will be. I know it has been for me. It is like done a lot of leg delicious. Inner healing on my inner child who is still very present and still very like i always tell 'em couple of my friends Josh and adrian who run the dirty rotten church kits pasta podcast. I was like listen if you if you were ever a youth group. Kid this is for you if you were ever in a place where it just like. You thought god was the thing that's out there and not this thing that's right here and i can't wait it's going to. I really do think that this thing is going to rock some some serious serious things. Like an i and i wanna i want. I'm so glad that we get to be a part of this. So ten on your. I want to know where people can find you on the internet how they can connect with your music and etc so you can find music stuff at the real courier com. That's the music site and Really the rest on is just my name on. Twitter blake mundell Instruments blake adele kaz. Instagram will not let me change it for some reason But yeah that's that's that's pretty universal. Across all talk youtube you can find places to does a stanford. Awesome sup stupid. Oh god why do they let me do this as a middle name to have lincoln the nineties but i feel like i would have got real tired of it in my whole life. Yeah it's like when. I jokingly say that i want to name my give my childhood middle name danger when i'm older i don't have any children. So maybe my dogs tippy. Do you want your military danger. Danger tippy danger garcia. that feels. That feels great. Just her commuter. You gotta own the unc. Everyone you wanna see my dog one hundred percent one come. Oh baby i love those ears tippy. Danger garcia is here to say go stream serenade everywhere stream music go to and you can be An ally to wow. She's not very good at writing. Jesus step your game up. Garden voice though is amazing for a dog. I know dog. Yeah truly impression dogs like that. If you're watching you're listening to this back on the podcast and you don't know what's going on. Please go to youtube dot com slash beloved arise or. Hello i'm kev in kvm And you can watch the whole interview with me and blake back. You can also watch every single Video interview right here on youtube. And listen to it on the podcast. Please go share this podcast with someone you think. It's going to be helpful to click the lincoln the description and pre save the serenade. It's coming out on june fifth and this Podcast is dropping a week from tomorrow. So it'll be coming out this week and when you do that That when you save it send it to all the queer youth that you know. Send it to anybody actually sent it to everyone. You know so that we can really start to get some ground. Swirl around that we really want this to make a huge impact reach as many as possible and you know loki change the world. Mild things. right You can also connect with me at the kevin garcia dot com. My handles are audi. Kevin spacey as stated here and until next time everyone. We'll see the conversation with blake muddle. What a good judy's. He is such a doll. And if you want to watch this interview if you're one of those people who likes visualization and also because you get to see all of our wonderful facial expressions that go along with this Which i like. It feels really real There's a conversation between me and blake this actual conversation posted to youtube page. Youtube dot com slash. Hello i'm kevin again. Everything in the show notes. He went to follow. Blake go to instagram dot com slash lake a model again all the links in the description box because they don't want to spell it out right now mostly because i don't want to mess it up because i'm not really sure how to spell blake's name right now i'm being honest anyway Look up courier. Music all over spotify apple play etc and also click the link to save serenade songs for the beloved volume when on spotify him apple music and share this with a queer youth in your life. You know you know queer young person and even if you don't know just share it with everybody because the thing is if we can get into the hands of everyone into the ears of more people this is going to heal so many lives. Can i get a witness. Come out somebody especially the song that you're gonna hear so if you're watching this on youtube right now. Go to my podcast. A tiny revolution. Listen to the new song. I don't know what else to say you guys i'm just really effing pumped around. This is the best thing to happen. Honestly saints honestly since grace dropped last. Up with similar like this is just like we're in a season and advent of really really fucking good music for the people who anyways if you like this episode and you want to support more stuff like it you can go to patriot dot com slash. The kevin garcia. Learn about all of those perks. If you want to check out my tour where. I'm coming to about eight different cities across the summer. Please go to the kevin garcia dot com slash tour or. Check out if you like this kind of stuff And you want to share it with your friends or maybe leave us rating in the i tune store Le- give us a thumbs. give us subscribe. You know all that shit is really comfortable You can follow me across social media at the kevin garcia and my website is becoming dot com. The book is called bad theology. Kills if you haven't read it yet. What are you doing girl. Get your life together now. Also Big queer bible. Study course is just four dollars. Now we've dropped the price for pride month. Who knew who knew okay. That's all of my little advertisements to you. I love you so much with all of my heart here. A blessing Until next time this has been another of tiny revolution. Take your meds all your person. Shake your ass. Listen to some music that makes you feel good inside like serenade of obviously obviously I'm done talking. i'll talk to. Actually i have another episode coming out probably later today. Because you know we've got contracts to fill bitch right. I love you so much I'll talk to you next week or later. Goodbye japan Expect those are just thinking about all out to you. Know who bob from florida strain to the has been a thing whenever doubt and stronger than thought it could be. Gotta some knitting is gonna love. I gonna love me. Forty times if i follow but i'm okay. I'm okay bone in his. Those are few joe's demont. Go god's own thought the door scene you start by dot com love love. I'm okay can s under. I'm oh kay didn't expect Does it he just

blake kevin garcia youtube kevin g mabilu schnee blake lindell Mike lindell aka currier Mindell blake kevin Alex lincoln Blake Joe biden alabama fran grace baldrige alex justin bieber apple Martin luther king
Summer Dessert Recipes; Ozarks Church Sponsors Queer Camp

Here & Now

43:05 min | 3 months ago

Summer Dessert Recipes; Ozarks Church Sponsors Queer Camp

"Support for this podcast and the following message come from the new wells fargo active cash credit card. It's ready for your every move with no caps or categories to track just unlimited two percent cash rewards on purchases terms apply learn more at wellsfargo dot com slash active cash fun. Npr wbz are. I'm robin young. And i'm callin- borders. It's here and now stocks in the. Us took a big hit at the open. Today amid concerns about the widespread of the delta variant of covert nineteen the variant is driving increases in covert nineteen infections and hospitalizations across the country. Cdc director rachelle walinsky warned friday about a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Meanwhile the number of getting vaccinated has dropped in many states in recent weeks. Let's check on how one state is dealing with this situation joining us as roy. Cooper governor of north carolina. He's a democrat governor cooper. Welcome to here now. Glad to be with you glad to have you understand that last week your state began seeing more than a thousand new cova nineteen cases a day for the first time since early may and about fifty six percent of people over twelve or at least partially vaccinated in your state so that's a majority but it is still below the national average. So how are you trying to convince people who aren't yet vaccinated to get shot. We know that vaccinations are the way to the other side of this pandemic But we know that there are areas in our state and across the country where we have not only hesitancy but downright hostility to this vaccine which is deeply concerning. The evidence is so strong right now that ninety nine percent plus of the people who are getting sick going into the hospital going into icu and dying or unvaccinated people. So we're pulling out all of the stops. We're going door to door. We are conducting cash drawings. We are giving people twenty five dollars gift cards to bring people in to get vaccinated We know that we have to do everything that we can to save lives and we know this is going to be something. That's going to be person by person. Conversation by conversation shot by shot. And we're not going to stop until we can get on the other side of this pandemic there are kind of carrot and stick approaches to this right. I wanna ask about one of the carrots that you've been daily which i think you mentioned a moment ago you started a lottery in june Giving vaccinated carolinians a chance to enter to win a million dollars or college tuition and yet we haven't seen a spike in vaccinations. Since then so i. If if that isn't enough to entice people to do it what might do the trick. Different things that motivate different people. We saw a surge in ohio. I believe they were the first date to do this. A number of other states have followed suit. We've not seen the surge in our state or other states. We have seen a leveling off and just this past week. We did see some increase after the first two drawings. But we know it's a lot more than this. We have an obligation to do everything that we can The most convincing arguments are are the lifesaving lawns the fact that people need to understand that this delta variant is much more contagious and that we have to do something to stop it and the vaccines are the way out. We know that it's going to take trusted. Community leaders were encouraging people to talk with their doctors about this. We're working on getting vaccines. In as many general practice doctors offices as possible and continuing the work to try to convince people to get this done. Yeah when you mentioned trusted leaders. We know that pastors for example have been effective messengers at times but governor. While i have you. I do want to ask you about vaccine equity. This has been a challenge in many states because we know the couvert nineteen disproportionately hit black and latte next communities in our country and that the vaccination rates in those places often lagged behind the rates in white communities. But last week the cdc actually touted your efforts in north carolina to increase vaccination rates in black and hispanic communities. So how have you pulled it off. Well the pandemic has put a spotlight on health disparities in communities of color that had been there for a long time We knew early. In this pandemic we saw black people and hispanic latin x people dying more than twice the rate. We had to step up and make sure that more people got vaccinated in those communities. We built our own database. That made sure that we collected demographic information. You can't tackle a problem unless you can see it We've been touted in north carolina for having the very best most transparent data. And what we did is we told our vaccine providers. We are expecting you to vaccinate people in the percentage at least a proportion of the population your community. We want you to match the demographics of your community. We did work with community leaders and we have closed the gap on vaccine equity in our latin x and hispanic community and we've narrowed the gap in our black american community. And we're very proud of that so encouraging equity numbers governor. But i imagine that you are concerned about the spike. Among young people in north carolina about a thirty two percent jump in the past week for kids who are under fourteen. Many of them of course are not eligible yet to get vaccinated. So what are you doing about that as we get close to going back to school in the fall one of the things about young people as they often feel invincible and so many of our young people are thinking that well. It's something that. I don't have to pushing hard on the message through our schools at our universities to let them know that this is not just about them that they can transmit this virus to other people and yes young people do get sick and yes. Young people do die. Many of our private universities have required the vaccine and going back to school. The public universities do not believe that they have the authority at this point yet. They are encouraging strongly students to get vaccinated and they are encouraging strongly people who are not vaccinated to wear mass when they are at school and so it's really important that we continue this effort to focus on young people because we do see a lag. There that we've got close. Roy cooper is the governor of north carolina governor cooper. Thank you for your time. Thanks callum. I appreciate it out of san jose california where there's been a lot of reaction to the city council passing a set of draft ordinances aimed at gun control. Proponents say the measures will reduce gun crime and violence dramatically but if enacted will they survive lawsuits audi. Bundle the moody from member station k. Q. takes a closer look san jose mayor. Sam lucado has a bevy of gun control mandates to in particular have captured national attention. Because they've never been tried before one requires gun owners to get liability insurance the other mandates an annual fee gun owners would have to pay to offset tax. Payer spend every year on gun violence. Here's lagarto yeah. I'd prefer that we weren't the i. I prefer the entire state of california with move forward and cities all move forward together. I think we recognize that. We're going to face litigation. We know that in the world of reasonable gun regulation On litigated ted miller. A researcher with the pacific institute for research evaluation has been working with san jose to draft measures. He says city taxpayers spent more than four hundred million dollars between twenty thirteen and two thousand nineteen on costs associated with gun violence. For example. many tax payers don't even realize that most emergency medical response is paid for by the local government. Not by our insurance. So these mandates be enforced. San jose police have said they won't be knocking on people's doors and asking them to register their guns instead. If they come across a gun in a search they'll ask to see the registration and insurance but stanford law professor john donohue worries. If you've got a system that is only enforceable two teams contact and then when we make shifting burden of the particular relation onto people of color which is exactly what. pb gomez afraid of. He's the founder of the latino rifle association a national gun rights group the chapter in california police in san jose have this mandate like. Hey make sure that everyone has gun insurance. And if they don't have gun insurance you charge them and then confiscate their weapons. That expands the purview of the things. They can search people for on the things that they can. You know rambo enforcement in the city and those are things always affect the poorest resins of the city and black and brown people liability insurance has been around for a while but a city mandating. It is brand new all kinds of companies offering this kind of insurance particularly to gun owners with concealed carry permits. Here's an ad for insurance from the company. Ccw safe you have a concealed carry permit to protect yourself your loved ones and your home and keep them safe but ultimately some things out of your hands. Ccw safes basic. Plan starts at two hundred and nine dollars. A year gomez is afraid. It'll price people out working boston. America cannot afford so basically as just a defacto ban on people owning done the lowest. Earning san jose's current proposal does allow a waiver for that annual fee and the insurance plan for low income folks who qualify but all of that might not even matter gun rights activists have already threatened legal challenges to these ordinances if they pass and if they reach the us supreme court. John donahue doesn't count on these proposals holding up especially against the national rifle association or the nra justices trump put on court were cheerfulness vetted and sometimes very strongly opposed to the national foundation for gun. Rights has issued a season desist letter to the san jose city council to stop writing the proposals before the final votes timber. Counselor say they're gonna keep writing anyway for here and now i'm moody Many americans were shocked to hear reports about the remains of children more than a thousand so far found in mass graves on the grounds of canada's mostly catholic church run boarding schools for indigenous kids who were forcibly taken from families to be what was euphemistically called a simulated. These sites have been a national shame in canada since far back as two thousand eight when canadian officials created a national truth and reconciliation commission and issued an apology. We'll have more on the agonizing revelations in canada tomorrow but another shock for some americans came recently when us interior secretary depp holland. The country's first native american cabinet secretary called for an investigation into the american boarding schools. Three hundred fifty of them at one time for children taken from american indigenous families among those institutions steward indian school in carson city nevada. Stacey mon- tooth is the director of the nevada indian commission where she's been collecting information about the stewart school. She's also a member of the walker river. Pyatt nation governor. Steve selects liaison to nevada's twenty-seven native tribes bands in colonies and. Her family attended the school. She joins us from carson city. And stacey what did you think. When you heard secretary holland's call. I was really relieved. And then i thought to myself it's about time. Well let's remind people what we're talking about. These schools were started in the eighteen seventies in the us when the us was still at war with native peoples. What was their purpose well in eighteen. Nineteen the united states. Government passed what they called. the indian. Civilization acts and the intent was to establish indian boarding schools to culturally assimilate indigenous children by forcibly removing them. In twenty twenty one. We would say kidnap in some cases. Children were literally and physically ripped from their mother's arms and in the case of my ancestors it was here I'm talking to you. From the stewart indian school. It opened in eighteen ninety after several different policies enacted to try to alleviate what was deemed the indian problem and it has forever changed the lives of not just the first people of of the great basin but indigenous people all over the country well when you say assimilation policy. That's putting it politely. And you have general richard pratt. Who founded the first of these schools. He gave a famous speech in eighteen. Ninety two quoting teddy roosevelt before he became president who said in not his finest moment. I won't go so far as saying the only good indians are the dead indians but nine out of ten are and i shouldn't like to inquire too closely about that tenth and frat went on to say as if he was you know maybe being kinder in a sense. I agree with that but only in this. All the indian. There isn't a race should be dead. Kill the indian in him and save the man. These schools right. We're about killing the indian in the child. You're absolutely right. And his hideous. It was quickly adopted. I can tell you that my relatives came to this boarding school and were treated as young as four years old much like young men and women when they joined the united states military. There harris cut their given. Uniforms and corporal punishments mental torture. This was a strategy that was very well thought out by our federal government and the tactic to remove a generation by attacking the women the children to destroy the family unit. I can tell you from my personal family. My just amazing beautiful ninety five year old grandmother was just four years old when she was sent away and when she left after spending fifteen of her her first nineteen years at boarding school. She ashamed of her language. She was ashamed of of being native with his duty. You well like my thirty one cousins. I am a product of what the federal government was trying to attain. It was an intel college. That i put the pieces together from you. Know conversations that. I had overheard and stories that i wasn't supposed to have been exposed to it all clicked and i have been able to use what has happened to my family every day. My job is to do exactly the opposite of what federal government tried to do not just to my grandmother but thousands and thousands of american indian people who were forced to attend school. Well actually there were government reports one thousand nine hundred twenty eight estimated that by nine hundred. Twenty six eighty. Three percent of native american children were in these. don't even want to call them boarding schools. They were punishing and then vocational and then forty years later. There was the kennedy report in the nineteen sixties. It call them a national tragedy. There were still these schools existing in the nineteen sixties. What is your fear about what the us is going to if it starts investigating the way candidate did. I think that this is going to be the first opportunity for healing. You know in order for my grandmother to really even try to tackle the physical and the mental anguish that she was put through. She needs my family needs an acknowledgement from the united states government. That they knowingly did this and that they understand that it was not just wrong but that it is still impacting our indigenous people today. So your grandmother's still alive. She is she lives in a little greenhouse on the walker river reservation. What does she. What does she want. Does she think there are children unaccounted for. Well i actually haven't had that hard conversation with her. It's very common. That are alumni. They don't want to talk about their experience here. It was so traumatic Such an emotional toll that at times. It's just physically impossible to to discuss. I can tell you not only as a direct descendant of the stewart indian reporting school but as a woman that as you said it's not appropriate that we even refer to these institutions the schools. Most americans would have a tough time reconciling the fact that every boarding school in the country had a cemetery on the campus grounds are nearby and for native american people. It's so commonplace that the discovery of the remains of these little babies in the canadian residential schools. It's shocking but it's something we've known all along and where i am sitting today right across. The street is the dot so lawley cemetery. I have seen upwards of two hundred unmarked graves. So i know in my heart. And my eyes have seen the evidence that the initiative undertaken by. The secretary of the interior is going to reveal. Exactly what is taking place in canada. Americans don't want to know that their federal government sanctioned the annihilation of not just any group of people but it's the people that were the first caretakers of the land. It's hard to argue that. My people are the most marginalized depress people in the united states. And so this is. This is really hard but it really could be an opportunity for healing. Certainly i've been disappointed before by our elected officials. But i really think that this is an occasion in which americans are going to galvanize and they're going to realize this horrible history that has an ever been recognized and it's going to change the course of the future of how not just american indians in this country but indigenous people all over the planet are treated stacy mom tooth director of the nevada indian commission and also a member of the walker river pyeho nation. Stacey thank you so much speaking to stop this. You're welcome. it's just it's such a painful story but it's got to be told it's absolutely got to be told and it's unbelievable tomorrow. The view from canada. Good question that's a really good question. It's great question is free therapy. Thank you for asking me that god. That's educate question. That's an interesting question but what fresh air interviews are really about are the interesting answers. Listen and subscribe to fresh air from whyy. An npr haiti's interim prime minister said today he will step down ending a power struggle that emerged after the summation nation of president. Giovanelli's earlier this month. Npr has confirmed that. Claude joseph will hand over power to re who'd been appointed to that position just before movies was killed but never took office. Npr's carrie. Kahn is here with more. And and carry as you will know. It hasn't been clear. Who's in charge in haiti. Since at least july seventh when the president was assassinated shot to death in his home. Does this end that power struggle. Oh i don't want to ever make any definitive comments about haitian politics that's a very difficult and always a turbulent situation so i'm not going to say one or the other i can just tell you what what i've heard and that is that joseph says he will step down. There are a lot of actors here in a lot of different names. But he was the acting prime minister closures f when the president was assassinated but the president had already named a different prime minister. Who just hours later was to take over. And that's already ellen nri and he's a seventy one year old neurosurgeon and he. The two men had been saying they were both the head of haiti. But the thing was before the army and the police were solidly behind closures. Deaf and the united states and the un had said that they were backing him to that all changed over the weekend and there were negotiations between the two men that had been vying for power. And i think that's what changed was the negotiations over the weekend. The two men came to an agreement and audio laundry will take over well and in reading reporting that some in haiti are saying. That's just an agreement between two men. You know it doesn't. It's not legal. But what did the acting prime minister say about why he's stepping down now. Will he gave an interview over the weekend to to Npr and he said you know. I'm not a politician. I want what's best for the country i want. He was hit said he was going to step down along. That was the plan until the president was assassinated. And he was there was going to be no problem with that and he says i just want justice for my friend who was the president. And that's why he held on but he has. He no longer has the backing of the international community in that became apparent over the weekend when this group it's called the core group and it's a group of key diplomats which include representatives from the united states the un the organization of american states and the candidate and the eu amongst others. I think germany. And i said canada to and they all came. They all kind of changed their backing. From joseph to arial andre and so i think that's sort of dealt him the cards he needed to step down and pass over the power. But like you said this is an agreement between these men because there is no functioning parliament in haiti at this time and the other problem is that when if something constitutionally if something were to happen to the president the head of the supreme court is to take over but the head of the supreme court died of cova just recently so that that succession of power was very murky and very difficult. And so. that's why people are saying. This is just an agreement between two men. There's only ten senators that remain lawfully in power in the parliament. All the rest have not been reelected. There's been no elections in many years. So it's difficult process and we'll have to see and we'll get more announcements later today. Am this formal announcements of this change in power tomorrow. Npr's carrie kahn. As haiti's interim prime minister said today he will step down And he will turn over power to arielle on re will follow the story here on. Npr kerry thanks as always. You're welcome thanks for having me over the weekend. Los angeles county reinstated its mask. Mandate residents are now required to wear masks again in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status officials are seeing a resurgence in cases about a month after rolling back. Many corona virus restrictions. Here's dr davis the health officer for los angeles county just last week. We took a chance In terms of you know lifting the as a state in terms of lifting the physical distance requirements as well as the capacity limits are. we changed the basking At the time We felt it was reasonable to do given the level of community transmission that we had at that moment but this is not the same situation. We're in a very different situation This is not the same. As what was june fifteen joining us now is jackie forty health reporter at kpcc. Jackie fill in the detail there. Then i mean things were going so well a month ago. So where two cases stand in la. Now what's been happening that led to this new mask. Mandate yeah cases. We're going really well. And then physical distancing requirements were taken away and so as the statewide mask mandate on june fifteenth. And ever. since then we've seen cases slowly increasing and then in the last couple of weeks we've really in cases just You know. I wouldn't say surge but certainly increase at an alarming rate. We had over ten thousand cases in la county in the last week. Now we're routinely reporting over a thousand cases a day got close to two thousand over the weekend while we know at least some of this is because of the new delta variant is spreading and this is particularly a problem for people who are not yet vaccinated so bring up to speed on the vaccination campaign. There i mean what percentage of the population still needs to get the shots. I just about sixty percents of people in l. a. county are fully vaccinated. But we're seeing pockets as in a lot of other places black and latino angelenos or easily the least vaccinated and if you look at the data by age group especially younger people are not getting vaccinated But that is especially true. With black and latino angelinos so younger black and brown people are not getting vaccinated at the same rate asians Have the highest vaccination by far of any age group in l. a. county and then white folks are kind of in the middle there so know health officials that i've talked to you. Were just really concerned that we're going to see more cases especially in black and latino dominated neighborhoods one thing. I'm wondering. Jackie is as we've learned more about masking. I mean it is an effective tool but it's only as effective as compliance and we heard the la county. Sheriff say that his department isn't going to enforce this new mask mandate so what impact will it have. Will people actually follow the rules. Well it's not really that big deal for the kennedy sheriff to say they won't enforce it because they never really enforce the other statewide mask mandate when that was in place. It's up to the la county health department to enforce it because they have inspectors that go out and an enforce all the other health aspects in restaurants and things like that. That's their purview. So they are going to send out inspectors They said that they were going to do kind of an education campaign and you know put posters and remind people that they do. Need to wear masks indoor settings like restaurants that usually seems to be the place where most people have the most problem with it And they said they aren't gonna find you know businesses initially. But i mean this mask mandate doesn't have an end date. It's just until the county health department decides that cases are low enough and they're really doing it to try to curb the number of cases. And i think also protect workers You know a lot of low income workers are routinely exposed to potentially hundreds of people every day and you don't know their vaccination status. I see so it's open ended but one of the other complaints folks might have is. Hey you know this. This new rule is at odds with what the state department of public health. And the cdc are saying which is that vaccinated. People don't have to wear masks indoors. So how will they get compliance from folks who have been vaccinated. I mean at a certain point though is still definitely the honor system. you know. Just half of the county's population is is you know fully vaccinated and the new order just doesn't distinguish between those. Two groups masks are required for all indoor settings. Except when you're eating or drinking so it's an easier way to just try to get everyone to mask up because of course you don't know vaccination status You know health officials are saying that will make it more Routine normal if everyone has to wear a mask so we'll see if people are willing to put them back on sure and of course one other bit of important context is that kovic nineteen hospitalizations in the county have doubled over the last three weeks. So that's something to keep an eye on as well jackie. Forty eight is a health reporter for kp cc. Jackie thanks for joining us. Thank you well in arkansas. Legislators have passed a number of anti trans bills restricting gender affirming treatment among other things which prompted one church in the ozarks to launch queer cap. A week long day camp for lgbtq plus youth. The first of its kind of south. Jacqueline frolic from member station k. u. af reports children's free paint and glitter graffiti on the forested parking lot of good shepherd lutheran church and fade. Bill they can choose activities ranging from birding yoga chaos ball and theater do princess forsake their families and carve out a simple life for themselves innkeepers in medina tradition thrown out the window. But at least you're happy counselor. Journal easel is teaching a bunch of girls and boys how to apply makeup and nail polish. If you wanna do manicure pedicure you want to mass. More than ninety kids ages twelve to eighteen signed up for queer camp says camp director newsom doyle. They were not asked to declare their gender identities. We didn't want to ask Because there might be some campers who maybe don't feel fully ready to express that To their parents or guardians. And so you can come to clear camp as you are. Each morning campers meet in self led peer empowerment groups where they account explore such issues. Joanne pointer is the facilitator is population of kids. Who typically don't get this kind of support and like public school setting or even a private school setting camper mylar newman is twelve. I'm gay. I'm gay and i really wanna make a lot of gay friends and it's just to me. It's cool to have a lot of like queer friends that you relate to my name is timothy. Newman and i am milos father. I heard about clear camp from a member of the church. We are not members of the church and a member of the church suggested that we check it out because it might be a safe space to identify as queer openly and make friends clear. Camp has no religion classes says pastor. Clint schneck law. We have been a essentially outpost kind of hopefully safe-space. Lgbtq church in arkansas. For quite a while and so yeah. That's definitely part of our mission because that's who we want to be as the people have got dozens of secular camps for lgbtq plus kids operate across the country but only a few faith-based camps exists especially in the south according to ross murray. He's operated a nondenominational christian camp in rural minnesota. Since two thousand three and has authored a new guidebook on lgbtq inclusive youth ministries seeing. What is happening in arkansas and recognizing there needs to be part space a safe haven sanctuary four young. Lgbtq youth especially this year for young folks that are feeling battered. on on all sides the arkansas state legislature recently enacted laws targeting trans-youth one bars gender affirming medical care another bands participation by trans girls and women in public school and college. Sports camper maximus adkins age. Thirteen protested lawmakers at the state capitol. Because they're trying to create what they believe the perfect america. They're trying to correct something that they don't understand. They're afraid they try to tell us who we are and that doesn't make any sense. Don't tell me who. I am when you know nothing about me. Cam volunteer apparent ashley. Churchmen helped initiate queer camp. And i have a kid of. That's already had some mental health struggles and attempts suicide so a spy safe-space like this for kids is not only A beautiful thing it can truly be saving. It's so much more to me than just a fun camp. But after enrollment for queer cap was first announced in april pastor schneck law received hate messages and death threats so while camp in session. The facilities were secured was an undercover police officer. Trolling the grounds for here. Now jacquelyn frolic in fayetteville. Now that we're at the height of the summer fruit season. Are you craving cobbler. Crisper pie will if you are. You're in luck because here. Now's resident. Chef kathy guns has been dreaming up some recipes using summer berries. And she's with us now to share them. Hi kathy hello there how are you. I'm well but with the summer heat. A lot of folks are trying to avoid turning on their ovens can relate to this kathy. I'm the baker in my house and my wife doesn't like it. Would i turn it onto baixa. How do we get around that and still make tasty desserts. I completely understand too. Because when it's hot i ever kitchen. That has no air conditioning. And it's brutal. There are a few things to do because this is the great time of year for fresh berries stone fruit cherries peaches on and on. I like to bake early in the morning before my workday begins or else are prep everything late at night and pop it in the oven as soon as we sit down to dinner. Helpfully different room. So you do want to kind of plan when you're gonna turn your oven on and add extra heat to an already hot. Summer helps that fruit. Set up a little bit too. I find that if you bake it right after dinner. It's hard to be patient enough to let it cool properly needs. So that's a chip. Help us understand some of these recipes that you brought up a my mouth is watering at this three berry cobbler Explain what a cobbler is. What qualifies and what happens if you've only got one or two berries on hand. Oh you can make this with a single fruit. If you've got a peach tree you could just use peaches if you've been to the farmers market and you've only found raspberries and blueberries use those essentially what you do. Is you take four cups of fruit. Mix it very lightly with sugar. And a touch of cornstarch pile that into a pie plate or a grad ten dish. Some sort of baking dish. And then you make a very simple buttermilk biscuit. You mix flour sugar and buttermilk with some butter you cut out six biscuits and you place them on top of the fruit and then you bake it and what happens is the fruit softens and bubbles but the biscuit gets crisp and buttery and it's beautiful topping to summer fruit and it's a highly adaptable recipe. As these all are just sounds fabulous if you're trying to scale back on the butter a little bit though kathy. You do have a blueberry crisp before us that uses granola which at least sounds healthier it. Well it this is. This is the simplest recipe of all. Again you could use any summer fruit you have. This is something. I'll put together at the last minute or people stop by you. Mix the summer fruit again. Thrown into a pie pan. And then you mix some granola. Or if you don't have that you could use oats and nuts and raisins with some light. Brown sugar ginger and cinnamon and you work a stick of butter into that and essentially becomes like a crown or topping. You press it down lightly on the fruit almost like putting a blanket on a child. You tuck that fruit in and you bake it until that fruit bubbles up and the crisp. this is why it's called a chris because the topping gives you this delicious. Chris topping will will tighten up. I also realized that an answer. Your other question about a cobbler. Apparently the look of these biscuits on top of the fruit looks like a cobbled street or you know a cobblestone. So that's where it gets. its name. yeah we're very familiar with the cobblestones here in boston. So familiar and and i hear that the there is some butter in thereafter all. What makes the blueberry desert though a crisp and not a crumble. With the difference there well. I mean for a lot of people. It's semantics a crisp generally tosses fruit and tops it with oats Or granola and crumbled tens not to use oats but it sort of more of a topping of of light brown sugar and a little bit of butter. Also i wanna say. There's one stick of butter in each of these but they serve four two six six or seven people it summer. We need to celebrate. We've been through a really tough year. Stick of butter go for it. Came in and that's that's barely a tablespoon for everybody so it's fine. It's all spread around. You've also brought us one more kathy a pie recipe and we've talked about this before pies can be intimidating for folks. How do you make this easy okay. So this is the pie for everybody. That says i can't bake a pie all right. No shame here. I use a premade graham cracker crust. If you wanna make your own go for it but you can find really good premade cross and then i mix a can of sweetened. Condensed milk with some egg yolks a lot of fresh lime juice. A lot of graded lines zest the green outside of the lime. And you bake it for a mere fifteen minutes so your your kitchen me heat up for fifteen minutes you take it out and you wanna chill it for about two four hours and then right before you're ready to serve it you whip some cream with vanilla and sugar. You make lovely topping on the pie. You can toast coconut sprinkled add on and fresh berries blueberries blackberries raspberries strawberries and it is such a beautiful refreshing pie. The lime coconut the berries. But it's it'll take you less than half an hour from start to finish. Well now i'm hungry and also feeling liberated because kathy has given us permission to use store-bought pies so thank you for that kathy and thank you as always for your time. These recipes are here. Now dot org. Thanks kathy thanks so much here. Now is a production of npr and wvu are boston. I'm callum borders who it has just been revealed does the baking in his house. Yes ma'am yup. I'm robin young. Not now home.

san jose north carolina america nevada indian commission walker river haiti canada robin young wbz rachelle walinsky governor cooper Sam lucado ted miller pacific institute for research john donohue latino rifle association
Breaking Down the Biden Administration's Immigration Policies 2021-03-09

The Takeaway

52:13 min | 7 months ago

Breaking Down the Biden Administration's Immigration Policies 2021-03-09

"This week on the experiment. Podcast from the atlantic and wnyc studios. What does it take to overcome. One of the largest disinformation campaigns. We ever had was in. Subscribe to the experiment. Wherever you get podcasts. Uh this is the takeaway on wnyc reporter matt katz. And i'm in this week. For tenzin of vega since taking office. The biden administration has pledged to overhaul many of the hardline immigration policies. That former president trump was known for and they've also outlines an approach immigration. that they say is more humane. Here's homeland security secretary. Ulla hundred maya orcas speaking on nbc this past weekend we're taking a look at the immigration system writ large and seeing what reforms are we can achieve to ensure that the manner in which we address the needs of individuals looking for a better life adheres to the principles and values of our country. And it's proud proudest traditions soon. After taking office the biden administration issued a memo intended to halt most deportations during his first one hundred days in office. That order was temporarily blocked last month by federal judge in texas. In the meantime the administration has announced a less restrictive approach. Deportation people consider national security threats and those with aggravated felony. Convictions are prioritized for removal answer. Recent border crossers other immigrants without documents or supposed to be allowed to stay in the us and fight their deportation cases and yet. There's a trump error immigration enforcement tactic that the biden administration is still using to deport immigrants. Starting in march of twenty twenty the trump administration began using a cdc regulation known as title forty two to justify the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of migrants at the southern border on the grounds that they represented a public health threat during the pandemic and the biden administration has continued to use title forty to expel hundreds of undocumented immigrants over the past few months determining how much has really changed our immigration system under president biden is where we start today here with me now. Is maria national immigration reporter for the washington post. I maria thanks for being here for having me. It's our pleasure. I you know maria. I keep seeing this word used to refer to the biden administration's removal of migrants and asylum seekers and the word is expulsion. Not deportation can you explain the difference. Yes i'm expulsion. As is something that happens much more quickly. Deportation as is often the result of a process. Sometimes it's it's a very quick process but sometimes it's process that can drag on for decades and you go before a judge an immigration judge. You can appeal to the board of immigration appeals. You can even appeal some things to the real federal court system. But it's something that can take a lot longer. Expulsion can happen. In a matter of hours or days There are some protect humanitarian protections but far fewer and that's what's happening under title forty two right. It's this expulsion of started by the trump administration now by the biden administration exactly and it's titled forty two of the Public health code and the idea was to basically effectively stop crossings at the border to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. Now of course the united states is one of the hardest hit by the coronavirus so migrants are just crossing into this country would be at risk themselves but that is something that the trump administration instituted and something that the biden administration has continued and except for unaccompanied minors and now you see the number of unaccompanied minors rising y'all why is the number of unaccompanied minors rising and you said except for that group of people. How is the by administration handling those migrants well so a federal judge stop the trump administration from expelling migrants. These are teenagers. Children who travel are dropped off at the border by themselves without their parents and they would be expelled to their home. Country misses something. A lot of people don't realize is this is something that routinely happens with mexico because The the two countries have an agreement. But we don't have similar agreements with third countries like honduras or other venezuela other countries so so to expel took expelled minors traveling without their parents that that was a very big ill to immigrant advocates and they sued and won and lower court but then an appeals court overturned them so the bundy ministration has the authority to expel minors. They just have decided not to. And as a result you're seeing more and more Minors crossing into the united states Some people say you know that that by expelling so many people into mexico and also to their home countries The trump administration kind of created this pent up demand that That people are continuing to try or seeing a lot of repeat attempts at the border. So the numbers you know. Each one is an encounter. Each one is some someone. a border. Patrol agent has do Book in and greet to end and process but So so there are risks there on the border of spreading the disease. Just your would be anywhere in the united states. But the biden administration's continued to expel migrant families and and other people. We mentioned that last month. Federal judge blocked the biden administration's memo halting most deportations. How much did that ruling change. The administration's approach deportations so that is understanding. What one thing. I that that is always important to point out. Is that unlike the regular court system on tv law and order and things like that or just in regular news coverage those records republic records are public. You know who gets arrested you you. None of that happens in the immigration system. You know the the arrests are not public record. You can't pull a court records show. A lot of it is very foggy So our understanding is that thousands of people have been deported. This fiscal year We don't know precisely. How many biden has deported Many more people have been expelled under the title. Forty order that biden has kept in place So that that continues to happen but with the judge enjoying part of a memo that the acting the former acting homeland security secretary It created on biden's first day And he enjoined the part that said you can't halt deportation for one hundred days. But he did not enjoy the part. That set new priorities for deportation. So lots of people out there who normally could be tart would have been targeted under the trump administration. Who are just no longer target right. So well draw knowing national security threats. Those convicted of serious crimes are not supposed to be prioritize. I i you know. I report immigration here. Wnyc last week. I learned about a guatemalan man living in new jersey for the last thirteen years. Us citizen wife and kids no criminal convictions. And yet a few days ago he was deported back to guatemala and made me wonder that biden does want to be more permissive when it comes to immigration enforcement maybe he does want that man to be allowed to stay in the country and until his cases is fully processed. Do we know if ice will do as he says. you know are. Are we getting a test now to see if isis a rogue agency a some democrats have have alleged over the last several years. Well i think. I think because beyond that i think that you know i mean how do we know. It's a rogue agency you know. how do we. Why didn't we know ahead of time that the man from guatemala who had no criminal record was about to be deported equal. You know this is something that these are. These are secret records. and so. that's why so much controversy swirls around. Is there such a polarized view of it because no one can really get close enough to see it the way we can in In the criminal justice system and the and the civil system you go pull the records and find out if what the government is saying is true We can find out if someone's in the system we shouldn't be there. I mean we through foy as we found immigrant detainees who had been used to work for the boston globe Who had been detained for twenty years and nobody knew about and the man who had been detained for fourteen years and he was in a wheelchair. We've been writing about this for years and that seems to be one of the central issues here which is just that. How are you gonna know you know this this is. This is the thing if the immigrant doesn't have a lawyer doesn't have someone who will call the media and say hey up and arrested right you know. Part of our job is media is to go and find out who got arrested. That ice simply won't tell us right. I mean that's the only way. I knew a lawyer called me. It's not like covering local police department where you could say. Who did you arrested. If you're a local reporter you can. I ask ice such thing right as a reporter. I mean they won't they don't they. Don't have to tell you i mean we asked all the time But they don't tell us and and they say it's protect immigrants privacy but if you're jailing someone and trying to deport them to some of the most dangerous countries on earth you. Is that an inappropriate response. We're the media. We have to do our jobs. Be supposed find out got arrested. It's one of those things. Government can do to another person and there. there may be privacy concerns If the same you would have for victims of sexual assaults and and and people who are endanger But that you know the komo justice system deals as also the the there's an immigration reform plan that biden has announced. It's trying to move. Its way through congress that would change the system that we've been talking about in many many ways. Does it seem like that. Proposal has gained any traction among lawmakers so far from your perspective. Yeah i. I'm not sure it would make the system any more transparent but Which is a big issue but But i think what What i would do is a dramatically changed the landscape for undocumented immigrants newly legalized most of them. so right right now. You have ice deporting a small fraction of undocumented immigrants in the country and a lot come back in. So i there are questions about you. Know is is ineffective way to spend several billion dollars every year Is it is it making an impact Is it making people safer And there's there's a debate over that and And i think that's that's what's coming and But right now. I mean the city's chart doesn't appear to have Is is not something. People are talking about every day. We're not hearing the white house briefing every day in with a a a lot of energy and so maybe that will change But there's other ways that immigrant advocates are trying to pass a bill so we'll we'll definitely cover that this year we're trying to take pieces of it may be. And maybe some of the pro immigration advocates can get pieces of this accomplish if not the whole comprehensive deal Advocates know that this year is perhaps their only chance to pass something inauguration and they are determined to pass it. It's been thirty five years since Major legalisation see what happens. We will be watching. Maria security is immigration reporter for the washington post. Maria thankful for your reporting. Thanks for coming on the takeaway. Same thank you. One country that's been particularly affected by. This is haiti. More than nine hundred. Haitians were deported in the first part of february alone. At least seventy two have been deported already this week but the deportees many of them children are being sent back to a country in turmoil. Massive protests against president jove now mo. Moe's have been met with police. Violence that have left dozens that so. What could this mean politically for the biden administration and haitian people living in the us and for biden supporters. Who expected an end to such widespread. Deportations here with us to answer these questions and more jacqueline charles. Caribbean correspondent for the miami herald. hijack lynn. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. We've been talking about deportations. How does haiti fit into this. Bigger picture is there a sense that people coming from. Haiti are being targeted for deportation. More than other migrants. We really have been trying to understand this. Because during the campaign for president biden then vice president biden and democratic nominee. Visited south florida specifically. They'll haiti i was at the event And this was one of the promises that he made that you know there is going to be this moratorium on deportations so the community was very happy about this because this has been a huge issue for them whether they have families in this situation or not but given the reality of haiti currently People felt that this was a humane thing to do. But what we saw was that after he was inaugurated he issued his moratorium. You had the ruling by the texas court but what advocate. You're telling me is that even with that moratorium. In without the ruling of the texas court we would have still seen these deportations that were seen as it relates to haitians because of this title forty. Two rule now has been unclear to me. Is that whether or not everyone on those flight to whether or not. They meet the standard. Because i wrote a story Just a few weeks ago about paul purely who is a stateless man. Born of haitian parents but not born in haiti has no documentation is not recognized by the haitian government. President trump tried to send him on his last deportation flight. To haiti that was halted. And then we see under biden administration. This gentleman is sent back to haiti along with others. He was not at the border. He doesn't qualify title forty two but he was returned back. So how. Many paul. Purely is have been sent to haiti Since president biden has come into office was he somebody who had been in the country for a little bit of time. He was not a recent arrival. Forty years old. He moved to the united states when he was five. Lived in new york. Wow th that's i mean you're referring earlier to a quarter that was one that had temporarily rejected biden effort to stop deportations for a period of time So deportations are allowed to continue. But they don't have to continue right. I mean the the biden administration controls the agency's That run the border and the administration can make final determinations about weather migrants should be detained allowed into the country or kicked out right. So that's i guess what's particularly confusing about this case and others right. Well yes no because one of the questions that have come up you know among some the advocates and of course the people who support President biden is whether or not it's lingering question out there whether or not dhs has gone rogue If you recall it took a while for us to get a Ahead secretary for department of homeland security and so you know just in my interviews with lawyers and immigration advocates. A lot of this was brought up where they said. look no. The prime minister left sort of a lot of land mines. That have you know tight. The hands of of the biden administration and dhs has always had discretionary right in terms of who they deported when they deport just because texas order went into effect. It did not say you should start deporting everybody. So they're really sense. Felt like there was the sense to just rush to get as many people as you can Out and what we saw in that is a lot of haitian migrants. Advocates are telling me this week that in fact over a thousand that have been deported and at least sixteen flights But again i'm back to you. Had that little asteroids title forty two you know what they are characterizing it as these are patients who are at the us southern border who had been waiting To get into the united states came in. And in some instances they were sent back to mexico which was not supposed to happen and in other instances that they were put on flights. There's been a real lack of transparency. Frankly about these deportation to know who are they. How did they get introduced. Its grasp We are hearing that. Yes there are a number of children. Two months old You know you family so there. There's a lot of questions that we don't have answers to and even members of congress who are really concerned about these deportations. I mean really an uptick in deportations of haitians that we have been seeing in the last several months since this new administration came in. But from your reporting it's it's haitians who both are alleged to fall under the title. Forty two which you referenced which is a section of the public health code and is intended to protect the country from from the spread of the pandemic right. This was some of those implemented by trump and has been continued to be enforced by biden. So there's both recent arrivals who are coming from the land border from mexico who who who originally come from haiti who are coming in and being deported under title forty two but your reporting also indicates that there other patients are also getting mixed up in this people who have lived in the country for many years are also being deported on these same flights. Exactly i mean. We showed this paul periods whose deportation have been halted because the haitian government according to them not give permission to not give travel documents and you know. He had a previous case involving brothers. Something similar where. He was deported back to haiti and they had to bring him back to the united states. And the question that we have today is how many paul purely are also on these flights. How many people who have been living in in the united states for a number of years who should have been protected under some sort of a moratorium or at least half the possibility to exhaust all of their immigration opportunities before they were returned to haiti and pulp. Yalies clearly showed that not everybody. Is flights fall under this title. Forty two we're going to protect ourselves from the spread of the pandemic jecklin. Charles is caribbean correspondent for the miami. Herald jacqueline thanks. So much putting all this into context for us appreciate it thanks for having. The takeaway is supported by feather. Did you know people who live in. Cities moved six to eight times before they hit their early thirties. That's why there's feather a furniture rental company designed for people who want to feel at home no matter how often they move their delivery team brings furniture rugs lamps one art and more directly to your home in as little as seven days right now. 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A new podcast series from wnyc studios and budo studios available in english and spanish subscribed to vegas wherever you get podcasts. In the lead up to the twenty twenty election we watched closely as states grappled with how to administer election safely during a global health pandemic and in many cases that meant expanding access to the ballot. More people voted early and by absentee ballot. And that leads to a higher voter turnout that we've had for a presidential election in one hundred and twenty years at the same time. A false narrative emerged about a rigged election conspiracy theory championed by former president. Donald trump now flurry of legislation in states across the country aims to restrict acesse. And that brings us to georgia yesterday. Lawmakers in the state debated election law for hours at a marathon session of the general assembly known. As crossover day. It was the deadline for a bill to pass either the house or the senate and then be considered by the other chamber from now on that's mark nece- a reporter covering the georgia government for the atlanta journal constitution. If a bill is a house bill had to pass the house by yesterday. It's a senate. Bill had to pass the senate by yesterday and anything that didn't pass on. Monday is not quite dead because it could still be attached to another bill but definitely much harder to make it into law. Mark was in the senate gallery yesterday for the long debate that led to the georgia senate passing a bill that restricts absentee voting and the pass by just one vote. What does this all mean for georgia voters ask mark with the vibe was like in the georgia senate. It was you know. Very divided between republicans and democrats. It's a very partisan issue over voting rights and which how voters should be able to access the ballot and so you know we had democrats and republicans on very polarized sides and that tension came through in the speeches delivered for over three hours yesterday afternoon. we saw you know democrats very passionately saying that. The election wasn't stolen and that this these bills these proposals are built on what they said our lies from president donald trump and then we had republicans saying no this has been going on for a long time and there are problems with our election system and the time is right to correct what they view as issues by for example their biggest item restricting no excuse absentee balloting in georgia. The debate that was playing out on the floor was it reflected outside where protesters also from both sides. Going at it. that's right. There were protesters inside and outside the capitol while the debate was going on inside the capitol. there was a sit in on the capitol stairs whereas some of the Protesters wore chains to kind of show that they were that they're voting rights and their voices were potentially being silenced and then outside you had more traditional rallies with people using bullhorns and holding signs and marching both in liberty plaza public gathering area and also closer to lawmakers around the entrances of the capital's urging them to either you know from the voting rights. Protesters not passed the bill. And from those who are more republican and trump supporters asking legislators to crack down on voting access so that In their perception there would be less chance of any potential fraud so mark. Let's drill down on one of these election related pieces of legislation. Sp to forty one passed on a party line. Vote twenty nine to twenty with republicans favor. What's in this bill. So this is a big bill. It does a lot of things to change. Georgia's voting rules. The headline item is that it would eliminate no excuse absentee voting which is a law in georgia. Since two thousand five that has allowed any voter to request an absentee ballot without having to provide a reason under this bill absentee voting would only be allowed for people who are at least sixty five years old. have a physical disability or are out of town on election day and the bill does a lot of other things as well. It requires absentee voters to provide ideally in the form of a drivers license or state. Id number or a photocopy of other documentation. It allows the legislature to throw out emergency rules set by the state election ward for example. Drop boxes which were allowed for voters to drop off their ballots. Last year creates a hotline to the attorney general's office for voters to report irregularities. It bands early voting buses that were used in fulton. County which is georgia's most populous county in atlanta and it has provisions They were concerned about the vote. Count taking so long in georgia. The bill also requires election officials to continue counting ballots until they're done even if it takes days so election officials would have to work in shifts to comply with that part of this legislation. I mean some of these restrictions seem aimded trying to prevent election. Fraud are there cases of election fraud in georgia that have been so significant that they've swayed elections where republicans basing these efforts on. What are they basing. These efforts on there is no evidence of fraud that would have been in the amount that could have swayed the presidential or us senate elections and georgia. You know in if you look back over the years there has been fraud on smaller scales in smaller elections. But that didn't happen. And these large presidential and senate races in georgia so a lot of the fears about voting fraud in georgia are based on conspiracy theories or ms truth or lies from people who believed that donald trump one in georgia. They're also conspiracy theories about dead people voting or ballot box stuffing or fake registrations. None or very little of that is true. If you look at the history of voter fraud cases in georgia. They're almost always very minor right right. And then the backdrop to all of this is not just that joe biden georgia by a hair but then democrats narrowly won both of the states to. Us senate seats. This is a consequential election georgia. This past year and democratic voters were far more likely to exercise the vote by mail option in those elections. So is this pushback by republicans who control the legislature against not just democratic voters but also black voters who were more likely to use some of these voting options that are available to them by law and are now potentially being taken away. Yes that's the argument from organizations. Is that these policies are the kind of election rules. That would disproportionately impact black voters. There was a study from the brennan center for justice at new york university that showed for example that absentee voting among black voters in georgia greatly increased between the twenty sixteen and twenty twenty elections. And now after that increase we're seeing potential rollbacks and absentee voting another example. There's another bill that passed the state house that would limit weekend early voting days. And if you look at the data you can see that. On sunday voting black voters disproportionate. Lee vote more. So if you reduce sunday voting access that would affect black voters to a greater degree than voters of other races. So they're making an argument that these policies do have a racial impact. And i'm pretty certain that if these bills were to become law we would see court cases arguing that these bills have a discriminatory effect. Yeah the former gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. I saw an interview. She called these voting bills taken together as jim crow and an suit and tie which of course refers to georgia's history right and then the jim crow era and restricting finding ways over many decades restrict black voters from accessing the ballot. That's right and that's this ongoing voting rights battle in georgia that stacey. Abrams has been fighting for years. Now you know. She has seen a path both toward Electoral success for democrats but also for greater voting access for all voters. That's her main platform. You know she has been trying to expand the electorate based on the belief that if more people vote that will benefit her supporters and democrats and that has started to show to be true because georgia is changing and growing state it is becoming more diverse and more people are moving to the metro areas in particular atlanta and these voters are more likely to be democrats and then you see the reaction from republicans where they tried to do the opposite and put forward bills that instead of expand the electorate constricted so mark. It was widely noted yesterday that lieutenant governor. Jeff duncan republican who typically would preside over the senate proceedings did not do so yesterday because of his opposition to the election restrictions. So that's donkin. The lieutenant governor. Where does governor kemp stand He's a republican is he expected to sign these restrictions into law. They pass both chambers. It's hard to say. Governor camp has not weighed in on many of these proposals. The only thing. He has been clear on that he does support proposals. That would require more identification to vote an absentee ballot in georgia but on issues like restricting. No excuse absentee voting. He has not weighed in on that. So far and i don't know what he's thinking but i suspect that he doesn't want to wade into an issue. That may not ever reach his desk. you know. He doesn't have to make the decision about whether to sign or veto the bill if it doesn't pass the house of representatives after it passed the senate on monday so i think his thoughts might be known at a more strategic juncture. You know if the house for example doesn't move forward with the proposal to eliminate no excuse absentee voting then governor camp doesn't have to risk alienating his base by or angering the other side by taking a position one way or the other will it might not reaches desk. I mean as a possible that some of these proposals do not end up passing the legislature. I think it's likely that some of these proposals passed the legislature. I think the one that we know has broad based support among the republican majority in georgia is the call for more ide- before voting absentee but all the other proposals It's wildly unpredictable. What will happen for example. The no excuse absentee voting restrictions that passed the senate yesterday back in january. The speaker of georgia's house. David roulston said that you'd have to make a pretty strong case to him to convince him that the election laws need to be changed pertaining to who can vote absentee in georgia and that was his position in january ultimately. It's not entirely his decision. It's the will of the committees and the his party. But i think he sent a message in early january that it wasn't something that was a top priority of his and also limits that kind of limit on apps devoting wasn't in the house version of the election proposals that passed so i don't know if that will How much consideration. That will get on the house side now that it will start considering this bill. It seems that former georgia congressman. John lewis a civil rights icon who fought for voting rights could potentially still play a part in georgia politics because if the us house of representatives they have this bill. Hr one Voting rights act. That's named after john. Lewis if that were to pass and be signed by president biden. Do you have a sense of what that could mean for. Efforts like these to restrict voting In georgia and anywhere around the country. While the john lewis voting rights act which is pending in congress would reinstate federal oversight in states that have a history of discriminatory voting practices such as georgia. You know previously up until two thousand thirteen. The federal government did review voting changes before they could become law to make sure that they didn't have a discriminatory impact and that was under the voting rights act of nineteen sixty five which was a landmark law passed at the height of the civil rights movement but in two thousand thirteen. The us supreme court ruled that The federal oversight requirements were no longer valid. And so what this bill in congress would do would create a new standard for which states were covered by the federal government for review of voting changes voting laws before they could go into effect You know that bill hasn't past right now. It's just up to the state of georgia and up to the courts. Based on part other parts of the voting rights act and other laws such as the help. America vote act and the national voter registration act. There are a lot of voting laws in this country. But there's no pre review by the department of justice like there used to be mark is a reporter covering the georgia government for the atlanta journal. constitution mark. Thanks so much for your reporting all this next for having me on the nineteen seventies. Were turbulent time. In the united states the antiwar movement was in full swing second wave feminism had taken hold in the black power movement at gained recognition time that members of the gay and lesbian community. Who face discrimination. In everything from housing employment became more visible as they advocated for equal rights under the law recent reporting from the new yorker found that it was during this cultural revolution that social workers quietly began placing lgbtq teenagers with queer foster parents. After placements and more traditional homes fell through karen hagberg is seventy seven years old and she was an activist and the gay movement in upstate. New york in the late sixties and early seventies we were approached by the social services department of monroe county new york requesting that we find foster parents for a young teenager who was described to us at that time as a cross dressing boy and we would call her now a transgender woman. Karen could hardly believe during a time and homosexuality was criminalised at the state was reaching out to the gay lesbian community in an official capacity this seemed so radical and subversive and so amazing on the part of the department of social services that we felt compelled to answer their request and they affirmative karen and her partner applied and became foster parents to transgender african. American teenager named vera who had previously been moved in and out of several filed foster placements. She was able to be herself in our home and she hadn't been with gay people before and here we were lesbians than we had lots of gay male friends and other lesbians coming and going and it was very different from other foster families she had been exposed to she had discovered a community of of trans women and she hung out with them and felt good when she was around them to learn more about the history of this seemingly radical act of placing queer youth gay and lesbian foster families in the seventy s spoke to marie emilie. George an assistant professor of law at wake forest university specializing in lgbtq rights. And michael waters a freelance writer. Who wrote about this recently for the new yorker. The main thrust of this piece is talking about these series of foster care. Placements that happened loosely without a connection in the early nineteen seventy s and essentially. What happened is individual social workers and Social work agencies started reaching out to the queer community in different ways essentially in order to register queer people as foster parents one of the first times that you see you like this sort of mainstream recognition of queer people ask potentially parents and this took all sorts of forums oughta times what happened is social workers. Had these kids who were in and out of the foster care system so they'd go through multiple homes and a lotta times they would be failed. Placements and a lot of these families rejected them because the kids were queer and especially trans gender non conforming and so some individuals social workers just kind of out of desperation seemingly would place like ads and gained newspapers for instance basically saying like. Hey we have this kid. Will you take care of them for us. And so i mean for this piece. I spoke to a couple. People who respond to those ads responded to requests him social workers and actually got registered as parents like officially with the county or state for the first time. We're gonna talk about some of those specific examples. The stronger reporting marie emilie. George this is a pretty remarkable Set of circumstances given the time period. Right i mean advocating for gay and lesbian rights was certainly part of the cultural shift taking place during the seventies book. Can you give us some context for what was going on in society at the time. So let me give you two separate transit background that are really useful for understanding. What's happening now or during this period. The first is just an incredible cultural revolution. That is happening in the late sixties and early seventies. there's a rise of new left with student protests against vietnam There's a growing militancy in civil rights movement. Also in large part coming from students. There is a rise of second wave feminism. So there's just a spirit of radicalism and casey for social change. That is really palpable. Around this time Any gives rise to a new wave of gay and lesbian rights advocacy Before the stonewall riots in eighteen sixty nine most gay and lesbian rights advocates were emphasizing milk Conformity and having mainstream society tolerate gays lesbians after stonewall. There's a rise of a new gallup movement which is really talking about how being gay just as good as being straight and so it takes on a new tone it becomes much more militant and as part of that are pressing for advocacy in all parts of their lives. So an end to employment discrimination until the early seventies being gay or lesbian was an automatic basis for being fired from jobs with the federal government. You can get a security clearance until nineteen sixty one Every state criminalised consensual same sex sexual activity. And that's hard to change in the early seventies gays and lesbians who socialized at bars could be arrested just for being gay. They're under lunacy vagrancy and disorderly conduct charges and so there's really a strong movement to expand gay rights in this period. So michael let's get into one of these examples. Don ward is one of the children you wrote about in in your story and his biological parents signed him over to washington state when he was fifteen years old after they found out that was gay. And that's why the they did. So what was life like for before. And then after he was placed with the gay foster parent the first few homes that don was placed in were quite bad for a number of different reasons but a lot of did center around his sexuality and also don although he he identified as he was assist man He did try make makeup. He was sort of playing with gender in a way that i think especially drew notice to him in this system that was not friendly to people in the slightest And so you know. He told me that after every place meant he with social worker named marian and at some point i after a few of these failed foster placements. Marian decided that they had to try something new. She had the wild idea to reach out to a gay person. Don ward around this time for context was involved in the gay scene in seattle. So he was going to. This place called the gay counseling center for instance mostly on a social basis on a lot of like adults and other queer kids around his age started to hang out there and so he had some of these early connections to the queer community and at the same time there were a series of protests in seattle around police brutality against queer people and he actually participated in some of those as well and so you know his his social worker hearing and seeing all the wrong those happening in these Like straight six gender families that didn't accept him to decide to reach out to an activist in the community. Who was a gay reverend at the time and who was also one of the protest leaders and basically took him to a cafeteria and said hey are you willing to be a foster parent for this child. And he said yes. Marie emily in the seventy social workers were quietly placing queer youth with gay and lesbian foster parents at a time. When homosexuality was criminalised in the us. How do you square the state sanctioned placement of these children with gay and lesbian families with the fact that states themselves were simultaneously anti lgbtq. It seems incredibly radical. But it's less so when you think about why it is that people were afraid of gay lesbian parents. No one was sure how it is. That people became gay right. There was this theory that dated back decades that people learn. Learn to be gay right. It wasn't innate trait but rather that people learned from role models and were indoctrinated into the so-called game lifestyle and so one of the big fears in the lesbian mother and gay father custody cases. Was that by allowing these parents to have custody of their children. The state was basically going to allow these children to grow up to be gay. What made the adoption and foster care. Context different is that these were self identified gay and lesbian teens so this harmful outcome that this fate had already fallen them. So it's not like gay. Lesbian parents could make the situation bad. And it was already there The the real shift And sort of radical move was when gain lesbian parents started. Fostering young children who didn't self identify in any particular way and at point. A lot of social science research had come out showing that parental sexual orientation had no impact on children's future sexual orientation. Social workers were much more comfortable with that. Michael what was it like for the foster parents themselves and and you spoke to some of them to hear from a social worker to get a call and for them to become parents sort of unexpectedly. Yeah i think the foster parent. I spoke to best exemplifies. This is karen burke who fostered a child in rochester new york around nineteen seventy two and the way she described it to me that it was such a surprising thing to be asked. That just couldn't turn it down. Just because it felt so revolutionary. She almost felt compelled to do it. and so the way it happened for her a newspaper article newspaper ad from nine hundred. Seventy two in which the County social services department had advertised in the game newspaper for rochester. Essentially saying we have this girl who's been in and out of the system this trans girl in their exact wording Something along the lines of we feel that a gay family would be the best placement. Karen hagberg doesn't remember exactly how she responded to that ad but at some point she did and she was at the time. Living with a girlfriend named kate In the two of them responded said they were interested and the county sent them over paperwork. And i mean. I mentioned also because the paperwork wasn't even really ready to have queer parents as foster parents for instance on the papers that they were assigned to fill out in order to register with the county assumed that the couple would be a man and a woman so karen and they literally just crossed out man and woman and instead wrote lovers and so the system although the county had reached out it wasn't necessarily equipped to deal with her parents and i also think a an important thing to note too that you know karen. Kate were in their early twenties at the time. And she like she did. Tell me that almost felt compelled to say yes because it was such a radical proposition in the first place. But i mean she. Herself was quick to admit that she didn't know that she was the most equipped to be a foster parent in the end. I think that was true of the foster parents that i did speak to. It just felt like how could you say no to this you know. They did their best. But i don't think any of them necessarily thought that they were as ready as they could have been. And then in terms of finding foster homes for these queer foster youth what ruled did activism. Play at this time really. I mean in terms of like just making sure that these kids were taken care of and highlighting these issues chosen workers were turning to gay lesbian rights groups and they were self identified as gay lesbian rights groups at the time as lgbtq And we're asking them to find foster parents for them. So some of these organizations like the mattachine society the national gain lesbian task force They were setting up formal programs to put social workers in touch with a potential foster parents. sort of these ads in enganed lesbian newspapers That michael described Are ones that Gay and lesbian rights organizations are are producing their circulating. There's also a sharp increase in the number of organizations addressing Game lesbian issues. There are specific lesbian mothers groups gay fathers groups and they provide networks of support for people who want to become parents marie emilie. Let's talk about today. Michael reported that only twenty five states prohibit agencies from discriminating against perspective parents on the basis of sexuality and gender identity and some agencies today continue to reject gay parents for foster placements because they're gay President obama barred such agencies from receiving federal funds. President trump reverse that meanwhile the supreme court is expected to rule this year on whether the city of philadelphia was within its rights to not renew a contract with catholic social services because that agency won't allow same sex couples to foster children. Could that supreme court case. Be a breaking point in in this Story that we've been talking about. It's been ongoing over the last four decades. So it's possible that the court will rule that these agencies can't discriminate based on sexual orientation it might also be the case that the court rules they can but there's also some possibilities in the middle. They could really narrowly tailor this and say look. These agencies are private agencies. But they're performing a quintessential public service right. Foster care has been a state program. They're working as agents of the state and so because of that were gonna treat them differently than say a private business. And so we're gonna say you're basically acting with the state's authority which means you have to follow the rules of the state. Imposes marie emilie. Michael thank you very much for taking the time. Thanks for having such marie emilie. George is an assistant professor of law. Wake forest university and michael waters is a freelance writer focuses on queer history special. Thanks to michael for his excellent reporting in the new yorker and for introducing us to karen hagberg one of the queer foster parents who cared for lgbtq youth. That's all we have for you today. Call us if you have any thoughts or show ideas at eight. Seven seven eight might take. That's eight seven. Seven eight six nine eight two five three or send us a tweet at the takeaway can also shoot me a tweet. I'm at mit kt zero zero. You could also record a voice memo on your phone and email to take away callers at g. Mao dot com. Thanks so much for listening. A matt katz in for ten zero vega and this is the takeaway.

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What Being On Hookup Apps Is Like | #SwipingSafely

Teenager Therapy

45:50 min | 4 months ago

What Being On Hookup Apps Is Like | #SwipingSafely

"A guess we have. Hey everyone welcome back teenager therapy. I'm geico and welcome back to another episode of hashtag swiping safely. This episode. you're going to be hearing from teenagers. That have personally used Apps like grinder tinder bumble or have experienced some sort of grooming or predatory behavior. And they're both going to be anonymous because we want to protect the privacy and there also very vulnerable and we want to respect that so it will be audio only And you will not know their names. I'm so sorry you will not other names but you will another ages in their experiences. Which i think is more than enough to understand what they're going through This was a really cool episode. And thank you to both individuals for talking to me. It was really great. we had Such a good experience is being up to here What they have gone through what they felt what they regretted and what they wish they would have done differently And they both gave some really great advice on what to do and what not to do so further to do. Here's the first person so now we have an eighteen year old from so cal that is going to be joining us to talk about his experience on grindr So be or like you said. When did you first start using grinder. I started using grinder when i was sixteen years old. Sixteen yeah so you were a junior in high school were you. At senior was in my two year of highschool. Now why did you start using it I think. I was starting to get into trying to figure out more about my sexuality and at the time there wasn't really a safe place to kind of talk about in initiate kind of conversations surrounding alley without being kind of targeted or whatnot. So i was also in a sports team during this time and i knew a lot of my peers would talk about in league reference. The app and i felt like curious. I've outlived the community and stuff. So i was very hesitant and kind of downloaded. The like didn't really like log into into like has encouraged it. Initially it was more so like a curiosity of not having been able to find a community so a community that was readily available. Will site grinders is like like. Let me see what what's like. What's the community like and whatnot around so you. It was because your sports team talk throughout right what sport. I played volleyball volleyball. And so you you had. So that's assuming you had a group of gay friends as well that could relate to you and your experiences. Yeah it was. It's kind of a little bit more than that though because it was interesting because like since they knew what the app was like they were kind of more like all like you should do though but like when you tell like a kid nuts like get greedy like of course. They're going to try to get the cookie. So like i felt like they're like subtle warnings was more like more For me to like get the accurate. Moore's like what's about about this like an op. So the more that they talked about getting the more made. You wanna get on the nc. Why they were even saying that in the first place exactly thing and so when you got the app a you said that you wear mainly on the others like you and stuff like that was before this. Had you ever had a boyfriend or you know. Had a chance. Exporter sexuality now I still haven't had a boyfriend so lucky. That nap has got me anything that way. But before this. I think the only like views of sexuality was the rue like pouring and also like movies like social media dislike reviewing of what sexually by but in a very kind of commercialized and Almost like non reality so very artificial. And i felt like my view of that was three masked by this like production quality. And what's it like sexually gay could look like algebra Fake so trying to find some more like actual real like these. With the way that i thought i could seek it out through the app. Yeah it's it's interesting. You mentioned that you don't have a boyfriend which is pretty common. I mean i think the majority of teens don't really get into a very late in their lives When you were younger and throughout your high school years specifically was getting a boyfriend the big priority for you. I thought like it was more. It wasn't more like a priority but it was more like having someone to relate with to share your own connection with and beautifully balanced off. So like i would get close and you would not like the talking stage. Where like you have to like talk about your day at work. The court quality with but it was like it. Never got past that so i felt like getting away with more like priority but it was more like by someone who you could be like friends but more than just friends with you know. Yeah yeah feel lonely because of that or was all these people around you announced to kind of keep you from feeling that way. It's an interesting feeling to say. I don't i feel like lowly is kind of like to deep over word. Almost i wanna say like the feeling was more like conclusive and undeserving. I felt like through my tribulations going through these different relationships of people whether or not they resolved in a boyfriend and of course. They didn't but i felt like all of these experiences demonstrated this sense of like undeserving of what i would. What i've seen through different means to social media media's absorb so interesting so the fact that you didn't get a chance to talk to people but they never turned into boyfriends just made you feel like you weren't good enough. Yeah in a way. And i think a big thing that i came to conclusions with. Was this whole other story in the kind of message behind like intersection analogy like rachel references which played a huge role within the community. 'cause i feel like the big steiner stereotypes in the bbc even like eurocentric ideals and characteristics. Are what people kind of gravitate towards and even worse like looking at like tiktok communities now like when you look at elche media communities in what kind of thrives it's more those like whites almost like hetero gendered normative that get conv- sculpted sculpted and magnified. So anyone who doesn't fit in these different standards are what austin got away or the fide. And it's kind of like hard to fit into this circle where you're just not meeting the standards. Yeah i i totally agree with that. You think that that combined with The fact that you have access to an app grindr in does that you think. Do you think that makes the app even more dangerous. Since you're going in there and you're feeling very vulnerable. And i guess maybe under appreciated definitely no one hundred percent. I think it's taken me a while to recognize this blake when you're the and there's such a variety of people who exist within the app and a there's people who kind of value. What your knee. Shes the who you are. It's hard because that's instant gratification. So when you get recognized or how you look and how you are for who you are. It's very like in the moment and it makes you feel good about yourself. So you're kind of creating more attention so you get into this loophole of warning to find more flat. And i feel like looking back. Now that was like a very toxic trade that exists. And i think it's it's definitely a huge struggle to like be in the situation like when you're in a you don't release the harmful and notions that these attention brings through like looking back. You're like dow like these people are definitely they know what to say because they know what they want and often. that's more. That's more of an expectation tactic. I mean yeah you're coming into the app and you're vulnerable you. You're you're insecure even So you're in this very fragile state of mind and suddenly put your profile. You put your pictures and when before you went on the app everyone was saying like no and you start to feel like you weren't good enough but you go on the app and suddenly after making your profile you know you're getting tons of taps and lots of messages and people showing interest so obviously that makes you feel really good about yourself. You start to feel like you know. Maybe they do want me and like you said these people are saying the right things they're They're comforting you. Validating you do you think you felt trapped into to that and believing it and did that ever get to a point where like you trusted someone so much and you later realize they only really wanted to use you. I think to a certain point. Yeah you start to trust people. And i know like a big term is used within the community is grooming so in the sense like kind of nurtured in a ways to get you to trust people. But it's like it's such an easy tactic when you're doing it on a screen like when you have someone to talk to an it's not like physical you're kind of relying on like what people say and i think young me definitely trusted people way too much and i definitely got into like different troubles with a but i wouldn't say they're regrets thirty things. You definitely learn from experiences and you learn who throughout and even if you like you muscle boy obscure lake make. What can i do next to like avoid situations like such but no yeah i feel like it in around like there's such a comfort level when you're really young and naive because you feel like you're being wanted but in reality it's like people are saying what you wanna hear so they can get a gratification for themselves to Yeah i i agree with that and it's interesting that you say that you you don't regret it and you actually learned a lot from it. Do you think that. I mean how do you feel about that when it comes to these experiences. Because you're glad that you were able to take something away from. But i guess there's also a sort of a a sad reality to that that queer teens are forced to live through these traumatic events in order to be aware of the dangers. That hide in these apps. I definitely think it is a sad reality. Because it's something that you kind of have to like undergo physically and emotionally to come out the other side. Be be okay with that and i feel like i'm lucky enough to say that it's an okay experience because they didn't traumatize me an didn't affect me hard and unfortunately i know that there are other people who who've gone through more extreme situations have been manipulated and then they are the kind of undergo a different experience with us. But i think i even sadder reality is that late individuals and young individuals within our community. Don't have like a more staffers. Space within like physical places like schools and different communities to have conversations about how. They're feeling where to look to. And i know it's like original intently. Grinder is not like a. It's not meant for like hooking up and stuff but that's what it's too and like can be said for like all all these other out super in social media. But i think it's not so having to change the kind of stigmas at the app is but more searching the people and the kind of interactions are making within their choices like. I know it's really hard to kind of change what people do but like i think it all starts with like one mentality Yeah for sure and moving on from a i. I wanna go back to when you first downloaded grinder. for sixteen. What did you find when you came on the app where an array of different things. I know Got band of times with to say that a lot of people don't want to catch a case which her good but really really. That's interesting though you got you got banned from the platform. Yeah no so. I know there's like there's like a way you can report people in moves for being underage. All these other things so being underage is definitely like i think away that greiner can abuses its platform to kind of make sure that people don't abuse the app for the for lake tile mathiesen whatnot all these other things but on my first initial kind introduction within the app is definitely noticing. How from people wanted or like. We're okay with age and keep were not So that was a huge thing. I definitely yeah and and hold on and so going back to that banned the couple of times so you were banned but then you were able to make a new account pretty easily right now. Yeah which interesting. I actually took in as a sign of like. Try again when you're older. But now i was very committed across at the time So all i did like make a new email and we re signed up. So i guess besides aids i found the other side of it that people were interested like i know a a huge tribe. I guess is like a a preference like older men with younger guys. And that's like my. It's kind of an alarming. Try but i guess like age when you think of it you you can think of it as like underage minors but there's also like in your twenties strive as anyways I guess in my pursuit of like looking for gratification. Kind of like survey the entire people within your community. I feel like looking at that. It's kind of you kind of pick up on who you thought or what people look like. Or what what people are within the ultimate community. So i guess he's for my first instances of cross dressers which i know i knew they like were thing because i grew up watching kind of parodies of them within different shows and such but like to see them in my own community and ambi- app was definitely a realization that i had but also like overall a huge a huge mixture. Like what you think because when you think of gay people you definitely have like astaire's and i definitely had a stereotype going on but it was interesting to see all these different facets of white queer culture and culture looks like and it's it's definitely not what you think because anybody can can be gay and like what they like but have a whole different lifestyle when we don't have to apply to what like media and what media tells you they look like so. That was a huge realization. I had That's interesting and did you. Did you ever meet up with anyone. Of course there who met up with people was how long once you got the app. Did you meet up with someone i think. It took me almost six months before he met with buddy. Yeah it was a little while. Why why did it take you so long. I think especially being raised in a very concerned household and kind of this reminder of like what's right and what's wrong like i feel like i've been in the shelter of believings like your people in your household early. Good people people who are outside our bad so you never know like people's intentions but it took me a lot of like trust encouraged before able to like meet people and non even right in a sexual way like i definitely off limit people like just to have coffee and stuff and those two are different experiences that i i kind of appreciate Interesting so okay. I wanna know all about that so that that first experience Why did you decide to meet up with them. And what what was it like so my very first experience as with this guy who's like visiting talent so he's from like vegas i think and in my mind like i think this is perfect because if the screens goes by i'd never have to see the source again. He doesn't even live here. So that was check wine Check to his sister's house and his sister was at home so it was like okay. Great nobody's whole Do you think new. So that was another great check for me. and i third. We had been talking for a few days and he seemed like a legitimate guy was like verified snapchat and everything And we met a experience. My first experience I don't know what to say. Let's just say as someone who wasn't experience. The with a expands. It was like a very an okay feeling to be inexpedient. Be someone who can help lead you. And he's thinking okay guy. He wasn't super judgy anything so he's an okay experience. Needless to say i did him mastering. And how how old is he He was a very twenty. The it's it's been a while so but he was twenty in early. Twenty s of interesting and the age. Bother you at all. now i i. I think he's been around a lot of older people. Like a lot of my cousins are older than i am. So i guess in that age gap. No matter like big is. I felt like i had. I was able to connect them connect with them in some capacities. And then even when i was like in schools i hired a mentor is older than i and it was just more about intention in connection so like just having someone you can talk to and be able to like just connecting some level i felt was a weight. The bridge communities so in that sense age didn't really bother me and i know it is for a lot of people but in my in my head it felt normal because it was what i was used to. That's interesting it's it's this is a really interesting point because for a lot of these teenagers H h doesn't bother them at all. They don't see anything wrong with it. They're okay with being fifteen sixteen hooking up with someone twenty seven twenty five twenty three to them. It doesn't seem like that big of a deal but usually when you ask them. If you're twenty three would you be hooking up with the sixteen year old. A lot of them are like i would never do that. So is that something that you personally would feel comfortable. If you were to have been that twenty-three-year-old honestly no honesty. No and i think a big way. I only got away with it was because i kinda lied about my age. They enrich. in retrospect. It's kind of like very bad. But i felt like it was something would It was something i needed to do for my own experience like that. Some experience that i needed to have it at sixteen But i think but knowing. A lot of lakes sixteen year olds age. Why people in my own there. They're definitely people who seem like their age and people who don't so i know not even with just like on grindr but like even within my own friend groups thin friends that i have who were in college when i was in highschool. There lay. No ya'll you're you definitely seem old. Uc mature. i felt like in that sense. I was able to carry on this secret life with having Interesting and I think it's interesting that you felt like you had to do this. To like you know as a sixteen year old. Are you saying you had to like you. Wanted to have the experience of being able to hook up with someone or you wanted to be able to hook up with someone older use specifically i think the experience that i thought i needed was just sex in general but also just like meeting people who i could have a connection with because like junior high school. You hear all your friends talk about their goods like the guy across the room and whatnot and different like social experiences. That i felt like i was listening. And i was like a big person went to parties either so i then was just isolated from all these social events and happenings that other people were having and it definitely made me feel like i was missing how i was feeling a bit of fomo but in a more deeper sense of nuance and looking back i felt like i could have waited because they always say like when you have sex with someone who you are closer with like it's better and definitely can say agree with that statement so younger talk should've waited but there you go so there's a piece of advice vice to give is wait until you have someone you could have a connection with. Yes no yeah even just like it doesn't even have to be a super long connection just someone you no and like trust with. I feel like a good. A good rule of thumb is like if you could like lift with their live with them. They're good person that you can be with them interesting. I like that That's good to know so coming near the end here. So i just would like to know what was what's the number one thing that you think is what was the worst that you experience on the app i definitely think communication and lacking of consent I feel like when you're younger with someone who is older or even if someone's like the same age i feel like if there's like a lot of dominance in over in this relationship in that relationship whether it'd be like just friends or just talking i feel like coercion is a huge thing that occurs and i feel like you can be roped to doing things that you wouldn't do and like as someone who is in super outspoken. I felt like there been linked different occasions. Where like i wish. I could have said something to prevent things from happening. Like even if just come through ability but like when you're in the moment and you feel like you got to uphold someone's time because not only is like in my mind if you're taking up time you think of their space but i think now like i feel like it's your own autonomy like at the end of the day it is your body and to have sex like you have to have more than one person like you can. Just be yourself so you feel like you have control over what happens no matter what. The other person says So there was a moment where you maybe felt regret. And you didn't want to participate in whatever sexual activity during aging in but you still obligated to simply because you were already there and you didn't want to disappoint them. Yeah interesting Well very sorry that happened to you. I think it's important to emphasize that yet. Is your body and it is your choice and after all these are people that you don't know any you don't owe anything to write it was. It's something that you agree to and you can opt out of it at anytime because it's not something that you owe them and they don't yo you anything so always make sure to take control of your own body and last thing that i want to ask is what advice would you have to someone who twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen and on the app or is thinking about getting the app. What piece of advice you have for them. I think in advice gives to anyone of any age. Who if only wanting to get the thing about it is kind of like asking. What benefits could you get from. Getting me off like i think looking back at twenty twenty twenty twenty one being such roughs years like i feel like social connections are definitely the way that many people have been opting to but like in what capacity do you feel like these connections garner. You like if they're positive or not. Like i guess like afternoon daily. What are your intentions of being where you are wherever you are like if these intentions or something that you would want it to. Like if they're beneficial. I feel like the two questions that we should be asking yourself if not more so like preventing because i feel like at the at the end of the day like it's your own choice and you should be able to do what you wanted to but just really asking yourself like are the choices you're making gonna be beneficial in the long run and if the answer is yes then i feel like proceed with caution and definitely be aware of the different experiences but otherwise like do what you wanna do but do it in a way that make sure that you are staged and how essentially being aware with how you're feeling in the moment like if you're nervous anxious like keying into like how you're feeling in the moment is definitely going to be a big saver in how things will interact and i wish i took that advice because i felt like if i had listened more so what i was feeling in the moment the anxiousness or kind of like curiosity like proceeding with caution. And just knowing what you want and how you're feeling is a big advice. I would perfect. That is really true. I agree with everything you said. I was really well. Said thank you. Thank you for joining You reached out to us a little better. Go to tell us your story on dating apps. you said that you kind of started this when you were fourteen So 'em how old are you right now. I just turned eighteen just turned eighteen. And what has your experience been like through. Dating apps in hookup outs have used them before. I have yes. What kind of apps do you use. An practically everything under the sun used whisper kick to scored Tinder for an a couple others. Zoe and stuff wow. When did you begin. Thirteen fourteen ish. You were thirteen and fourteen when you began season. And why did he begin to use them in the first place Well the house. I come from very conservative I grew up going to a baptist christian school in middle of nowhere So being gay was considered a san. And i just wanted to feel like i was something to someone. Not just this walking talking sinful burden and would you identify as identify as pencil pants. Actual experience like when you first began to use these apps. What did you encounter win. In how the even come across this. Yes so i just came across. I was looking at like a reddit. Form of where like gay people meet or lgbt members in particular at it but need a kick and whisper and materials who was georgia's hormonal. A was still recovering from a lot of the things that went down from those kind of things happened. A lot of very predatory behavior I tell these people my age shows fourteen and they would be in their late twenties and save that they don't care I'll get constant messages asking for nudes or asking for Sexual text etc and one of the biggest things that took a toll on me was with all these people every person i met at the same like. You're not actually gay if you don't do this for me or if you don't say that really there was a lot of people trying to get you to do stuff as a way to prove that you were part of the community. Yes and how do you respond to all of that. I mean i just did it. Because i felt i felt alone. I felt scared. I wanted to fill this void in my life of not feeling like i was a part of anything So i will. I would send you know nothing. My face was spur enough to know that but very sexual things videos pictures etcetera and these were all people that were much older than you right. Yes when what was it like when you did send those things that he tried to ask for more than they try to make lead somewhere. More intense They would ask for more and it got to the point where one of the women that was doing to me It was non-stop every day. Every minute my phone is constantly. Blow up with her Physically forcing me in descending news in descending videos really so there was a mix of women and men that you talk to was it only woman it was only when and how did he respond to this woman that was constantly blowing up your phone. I would tell I don't feel comfortable with that. Choose like then you must not actually be gay. She was like. I think you're just you know a straight girl wanting to explore experiment. Now just cry. I was like okay. I guess this is what i have to do to prove on part of your community. And did you do it. Yes and how old was the woman. She was nineteen turning twenty turning twenty anyway. what fourteen. thirteen fourteen. Wow and was there at at some point. What happened to all the other people you were talking to that you just stop talking to them. She actually because we were on mostly just like whispering kick. she would message them to be like. Don't talk to her. Like don't like that's mine mine. Only she can't vary like predatory and very protective and those other people were like this worth it and hoping they stopped. But i don't know. Did you ever talk to someone. That was your own age. No no why not. I just felt like. I didn't find anyone own age Especially like found a couple of like gay guy friends but never Never any other queer women weren't able to find them thing. How did you eventually realize of what was going on that. You need a to get off these apps Just the guilt took a toll on me about every time. I'd get a message from her. I would just have horrific panic attacks on a self harming along a hated myself. And i would just i would just look in the mirror and cry because i felt like all i was good for was my body and once i hit a Like a appoint where i was like. I'm done i tempted suicide. I went to therapy. I can't i can't take it anymore. These abstract you to the point of attempting suicide yes. How were you able to cope with everything i just. You know. I think expressing to lgbt youth mentoring lgbt. Youth has really helped me a lot on. That's been really big coping mechanism for me to letting them know and letting them avoid the situation but also when it comes to my body on how. I think it's being just used for that It's been a lot of a lot of work But i think the best thing. I was able to do with surround myself from with really cool. Lgbt friends that. I eventually found when i was older. And just getting to know more about mean the things that i love. Where did you find people. Your own. And i found people my own age once. I got out of my christian school. So when i went to public school and started finding people but it's still not allied only a couple of people. Yeah what do you wish. What kind of resources do you wish you had access to back. Then i think having the internet be a little bit more regulated in letting people know the behaviors of bad but also like being lgbt. I wish we had more resources. Now that i'm normal. Like i'm not like maybe people to talk to people my age. That safe and i know they're not grown would have been nice instead of just finding. Lgbt people on hiccups. Yeah that makes that makes sense. Do you think there's a little bit of controversy with these absent. People aren't sure whether they should ban them for. I guess they are banned for minors. But she do you think dating and hook up apps. It should be encouraged that minor. Stay off of them or should it be encouraged that if they use them there they try to stay safe and only meet people that are their own age. Yeah i mean. That's hard. Because i knew i would just say to people who are when these eating. You don't know who's behind the screen and so make sure one hundred percent that they are real and that they are your age but i think that comes a little bit. Older in life may be sixteen seventeen. I think there are certain age groups. And i'm like no i think you should be on it because you don't really know what's going on and i mean a fourteen thirteen. You don't really know morally. She chips ya. You don't really know about sexual encounters you don't really know about consent which is super significant So i would say it really depends on your age. And you know it depends. Are you willing to take that risk and just know that my story is just one of the many consequences of if you take that risk. Yeah i agree with you. Well thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm so sorry that happened to you and at least. I'm glad that you're doing better now that you got the help that you needed. Because that's something lot of teenagers. Don't get they get stuck in this. And it's also unfortunate that these apps and being on these apps becoming normalized For some people when they think it's like a necessary part of being bt q. So thank you for sharing your story. Yeah thank you for having me on. It was a pleasure. Horse that concludes this episode. Had some really great conversations you got to hear about The experiences of other teenagers let me know what did you. What did you get out of this episode. Did anything surprise you You have a similar experience. If you're comfortable sharing that please do because We wanna know we want to know what you've gone through But thank you again to those people that join me. It was an incredible conversation. And yeah make sure you subscribe like common. Do all of that and please go to our instagram at teenagers. Therapy and reshare all the post that we doing this entire pride month. It's really important and we really would love your support so without further. Thank you for listening. And we'll see you next time bye. This episode is sponsored by anchor. A lot of guys always ask us. How do you record a podcast for europol gaz. How do you put it on. Spotify apple podcasts and everywhere else while the answer to that is anger. 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Hookup Apps, Grooming, and Dating While Queer | #SwipingSafely

Teenager Therapy

45:33 min | 4 months ago

Hookup Apps, Grooming, and Dating While Queer | #SwipingSafely

"A guess we have welcome back teenage therapy. I'm gail i'm thomas. Am isaac cam kayla and welcome back to another episode of teenagers therapy which is actually a very special episode. Because this pride month were dedicating the entire month of june to a campaign that we made And the campaign that were making is all about the exploitation of plus youth in online communities. And how we can help facilitate better and safer online spaces together And what that means is that we're basically going to be focusing on the issues. That a lot of young queer people fall into you know such as grooming and sexual assault in ops also known as gm as geo social networking apps and for the rest of june. We're going to be doing six episodes. There's going to be the first episode. Which is this one is going to be the kickoff episode or we'll be talking about basically a summary of the issue and the next five episodes we're going to be interviewing celebrities. Influencers will also going to have An episode with experts talking about the issue and therapists. We're going to have an episode with activists and finally we're going to have an episode talking to teenagers around the world who have also experienced these issues first hand and this is really important to us because i think this issue specifically is one. That's not really talked about And it's one that's very it's tucked under the rug but it's affecting a lot of people And we just think it's really important and we wanted to dedicate the entire month just talking about this and spreading it to as many people as possible and we hope that To you listening if you're queer and you're young that this is something that you probably experience. But also i hope this campaign helps you. I think this is an issue. That is so normalized. And it's not talked about enough. But i guess like it's pretty reasonable Which is why we are doing this campaign to bring more awareness to it. And it's an issue that i think affects Garland i am very deeply because we are part of the lgbtq plus youth community so to get into the issue. Let's start off basically with explaining what a gna is. So i think we kinda came up with the term because joe social networking. yeah right. no that is. That is really if i the flow. I thought you were the one who created the term and we wanted no scientific term that i created. Not scientific is just like an abbreviation. Gna's is short for geo social networking apps that means an app that allows you that. Uses your location to connect you with people around you and one of the ways is like tinder right like tender. Bumble it's a dating that you go on it and it connects you with people around you in the area that are looking today or make friends connect and whatnot and the problem in the community. Is that because society as a whole is still very much still very much homophobic. Guess and maybe not as accepting of crew relationships as they are of heterosexual relationships so one of the ways that this affects queer youth is that crew youth don't necessarily have the same spaces to explore their sexuality other the romantic interest and really just get to know themselves in the same way like a street person does ray if for example if you are straight and you're scoring a teenager you could find people today easily like you. Just start talking to a girl to a boy and they're more likely than not going to be stray and like there might be something that could happen. But if you're queer if you're gay lesbian pan sexual. The chances of that are so much lower. Because you don't know who's out maybe you're not out yourself Maybe people around you aren't accepting and they'll they could bull you they make fun of you and what that leads to. Is you never get the same chance to experience. Love like asamoah now and guana first day or have a crush. Because you know like it's just not possible. There's not people around. You don't feel safe doing that. And because of that a lot of queer people get desperate and they get just they they want to find someone they they long to find someone they could you know. Call their boyfriend or girlfriend and the they realize that the only way they're gonna find someone like that is if they go on apps like tinder bumble and grinder and i think one of the most problematic apps for gay boys specifically and just gay queer teenagers specifically grinder Which is marketed as a way to find people like you. But it's really just the hookup. It gets its place you go when you're looking for sex and that's where you go and the problem with it. Is that the people that are on. That app are just not the people you really wanna meet because the ad kind of promotes being anonymous and being like an undercover on the down low. And it's very secretive so obviously when when you're going to adb you're gonna find people that are a little bit weird that i wanna stay undercover and anonymous. And that's never a good sign right. That's not a good thing when someone doesn't want to give you any information about themselves And so what happens is a lot of teen boys go onto these apps and you know some as young as thirteen twelve years old I've seen even people like as young as eleven years old. Say they've been on that absence then and they go under because they're looking to find friends they're looking to find someone that will validate them We did a survey and we've got a one hundred responses about. Why did you go on these apps. And the number one thing was validation. Seventy eight percent of teenagers that answered our survey said validation was the main reason for going on these apps. And so people are going to these apps for validation which is upsetting. Because i guess maybe they just don't feel validated by anyone else. No one tells them that they're attractive or they're worthy of being loved that that that you know they have a crush on them and so they. I think the people are desperate for the validation right. Yeah i mean it just would feel nice knowing that there are people who would find you desirable because you wouldn't know that otherwise in school there is probably what three gay guys total And like you're not interested in any of them interested in you and that's okay but you're never validated and you're not liked. I guess and not to mention when you're growing up is our Especially for me. I remember i was growing up. And i always felt very inferior about Being gay Being gay made me feel very inferior and it made me feel like our problem with me. i would like just like beg and i would pray and like i wish i was straight so like i was normal And i guess because of that. I always felt uncomfortable in my own. Skin Yeah i never really validated myself. And so people go on these apps feeling that way to get that validation and the the deeper issues go on these applicant for validation. So that obviously means you're in a vulnerable state of mind. You're you're desperate. When you're desperate you will do all sorts of things to obtain the thing. You're looking for the thing you're searching for. And what happens very frequently and it's almost like the normal experience that people expect is you're gonna go onto these apps. You're going to be looking for validation. You're going to be desperate for the validation and you'll be willing to do whatever it takes to get that and that may sometimes mean hooking up with someone twenty years older than you fifteen years older even like as old as fifty while you're like eighteen and stuff and sixteen and that's a really big problem because people the people that are on these apps are there's a lot of predators a lot of predatory behavior on these apps. There's a lot of gay men that are like twenty twenty five thirty forty fifty. That will message you. Even if you're buying a lot of people put like young high school boy right like like high school which basically means you're selling high school and you'll still get lots of people that are like thirty forty years old messaging you like. Hey do you wanna do something. Do you wanna meet up and even after you disclose your age and you're like hey like fourteen is that okay. I'm fifteen okay. There's no problem where you could pick you up. And there's men willing to pick minor up and engage in sexual activity with them and that's not really a problem and it's really common and it's dangerous because there's all these miners and no one's talking about this issue. No one's telling them like don't do this right or like watch. How for these dangers and they go in there very naively and they they they think like i want to do this like this is what i want i. I'm just looking for this. And i think the tends to be an issue that the person using the app that the minor using the app dozen. See the problem with it because it's become so normalized that they see it as it's just a normal part of the community like i can go anywhere else is just how it is right and i've seen talks to where it's like someone complaining about grinding. And they're like oh someone criticizing and saying you shouldn't be on grindr when you're minor and the comments are just felt like well you're not queer so you don't know what that is just normal for like. Oh i've been on since isn't like it's just like whatever i like is traumatic but what can i do and also a lot of people take pride in being able to hook up with someone twenty years old like deflects about it. They're like well. Yeah me after hugging with someone that and they're like fifteen. Yeah it's it's really upsetting and even when the comments section Like there's so many people who are like agreeing with them and those who are like Like saying it's wrong. Everyone attacks them because they just wouldn't really understand what like how it is for them but it's just very upset. I think maybe it's even just the defense response. You're like you know you experienced trauma and you know you're it was painful and you regret it and so when someone criticizes you instead of admitting that like it does really hurt you and you regret it. You try to maybe take it. You know. i don't know give it powered by being like i'm proud of you. Don't want you went through this trauma exactly. I think maybe for some people. That's what it is is that they know like it was wrong and they regretted it but the can't take the criticism because their hurts to admit that was wrong and if they can't take it back they might as well be proud of. I guess that's really sad. And it's really upsetting. And i think part of it is like most people on our young and so you know task something that happened to you like it can take a long time to fully process it and realized we'll action have been like it can take months because they year you know so in the moment they might just be laughing it off joking about it. But they don't fully happened because again people are young you know. How can you be now like thirteen. Fifteen and fully process that you know you might have been groomed. It's like such a difficult concept. Suggested is difficult. Especially when you're the one being groomed and grooming is one of the big issues of this. Is that a lot of young. Minors and a lot of young queer youth are being groomed. But they don't realize it because maybe they don't necessarily know what grooming is and if you don't know what grooming is basically the action of a person older than you Talking to you trying to get something out of you know like i guess. Sort of trying to gain your trust. let's say you're sixteen. There's a forty year old talking to you. They might act friendly they might Try to gain your trust Tell you they'll take care of you. They'll be your friend your mentor. And they'll use dab bond and that relationship they have with you and the trust that you have with them. They might try to make you feel cared for radio. A lot of people are looking for validation. So they'll meet that need and call you nice things and they'll say oh you're amazing you really attractive and you'll start to be like well. This person actually cares about me like it's not like everyone else in my life. A they actually care about me. They understand me and when that happens you you gain the you start to trust them and it's once you trust them that they'll proceed to engage in like a sexual act with you and use you for that and even though they only are using you for sex and for your body and really you're just they're just objectified you to try to make you think otherwise by telling you know i really care about you when it's really it's really not that it's a sad reality because it's hard in the moment to see you're being group because if you're alone if you're desperate for validation and you have no one else to talk to even an ounce of attention can be incredibly just addicting and it could be incredibly magnetic of a force to resist Which is why this is such a common problem. Do you think Do you think these issues hidden. Because it's like so normalized or what do you. Yeah i mean. I think there's a really big problem with Lgbt like the queer youth community day are okay with it. Like a lotta people. They think they're okay with it. Because they're young and they are desperate for validation. They're desperate for friends. They want to experience things. They wouldn't be able to experience in their own high schools or anything and so a lot of them are okay with a lot of them. Don't see the problem. Which is why. It's so hard to address it. I think a big part of it is that it's become so normalized I thomas said but also normalized in media that and it's just a hard thing to talk about because of secretive nature right. You don't usually people already have a hard time talking about sex talking about sex publicly and their experiences. Now imagine talking about sex and the fact that you were basically groomed and the you like had sex with someone a lot older. There's a lotta shame. Still people aren't openly talking about time. You can't really blame them because it's hard to talk about that. And there's there's just like a problem in the media of normalizing of these kind of relationships even though they don't necessarily try to normalize in normalize them just showing them kinda dud like one of the most popular like we're movies. Coming of age movies is call me by your name and that movie is idolized that it is like everything about that movies. Romance sized ama- just idolized the where what you want to experience right but in that movie the main relationship is a predatory relationship between a seventeen year. Old twenty six or seven agree. I seen so much about that movie on tiktok everywhere and you know like those fan cam and everything and i tried to watch it. I watch all of it just because of the basic facts behind. It is an old man with a young teenager. And that's it know like there's no it's hard to believe that there's love there because of the h. Gap that's completely normal to be skeptical of that and especially because it's romanticizing that movie i could watch it. Yeah exactly. I think The media does play a really big role in it Like in every movie. I've seen or not in every movie but like when there's like kotla high school senior girls dating college guys and is normal. Is there like i feel like when you're dating someone much older than you it's cool. It's like viewed as oh yeah. I'm attainable like number one. Like i am desire. I'm desirable even these matures of his accounted college guys wami and is just like swept under the rug like i mean there's really no excuse for it and no one really thinks there's a problem with for the most part it's not a flex that you're dating someone older than you. You are a victim. You are older significantly older. Yes you are a victim for that like you do not need to be eighteen. They someone that's thirty. The fact you got with someone's dad is not a flag that's weird it's predatory it's grooming it's creepy. You shouldn't be doing that and that's not really helping you A lot of people see it as a flex in thomas head which is so weird because i think also another thing about grooming is when you're let's say sixteen seventeen and your approached by someone like twenty five twenty six. You're at an age where it's kind of like you think you can consent to it. You're like yes like i wanted. I was fine with it. I was fine with the age difference. I'm like pretty mature. I could handle it and he was very respectful and nice. But when you think about you being twenty six twenty seven would you date in eighteen year old like when you see yourself someone dating you. You think it's fine and normal like there's no problem but to a lot of people when you imagine yourself at that age dating someone that seventeen. You're like that'd be so weird. I would never do that. And that's when it really puts it into perspective. What kind what kind of person you have to be to be dating minor advantage exactly. I agree and it's like. I know that there's a lot of them teenagers. Gala a gay teenagers who have a type for older guys I think both like sexually and romantically. I don't know if there's like like psychological. We're actually talking to an expert about that and he has a really interesting point of view. Okay stay too. I know the yeah I'll listen to later then. So yeah there could also be reason why like it's very likely and when i was talking to the expert because i was like i think the reason young people have thing for people older is because they don't feel like they can be comforted by someone their own age. Because if you think about where you are so like deprived of these experiences that a lot of queer youth aren't mature enough to handle relationships. They don't know themselves and if they don't know themselves and who they are who they authentically are. How can you expect them to be able to handle someone else in love them and and stuff like that a large part of the reason you know minors look for people older than them is because they see them as sort of a a mentor and like a teacher and someone. That is unapologetically themselves. That could teach them how to like have sex and teach them how to love and how to be queer and how to beat themselves and they find comfort in that and one of the things is like saks. There's no sex education right. There's no true comprehensive sexual education for lgbt cupolas. And so what that leads to. Is you look for older men who are much more experienced than people your own age who you expect will guide you through all these acts and we'll help you and a lotta people find comfort in that. And so their preferences. I want someone older than me. Because no one my age understands me and that's a whole nother issue that's true yeah A lot of these men They disguise themselves on justify what they're doing because the call themselves. Oh just mentoring them. Where i'm just a friend. Oh i'm just showing them what to do. I'm just helping them out If they want to. I can eyeball while like. I've obviously you like it. It's a crime. It's it's illegal And we can't really do much about it. But i think the purpose of this campaign is really to spread awareness of this problem and really get these Teenagers to eyler. Stay off of these apps or use it safely. Yeah i think this is such a systemic problem that there's no true way to fix it. Ideally you'd want to ten tomorrow. There's society that like is accepting of everyone and you could go in highschool. I see who's gay them and there's no judgment but that can happen. That's a slow progress. And i understand why teenagers around these apps. I understand because they have no other choice. I mean if you're a teenager in a in a very conservative town that isn't you know accepting of you being queer. You're going to be desperate to find romance because you don't wanna miss out when that's fair. It's it's understandable that you want the same experiences as heterosexual people. Have you want those same experiences. And it's understandable that you'd go on apps like tinder bumble and grinder and even other parts of the internet to find people like you. And that's why. I think what we're trying to do with this campaign is trying to like you know we understand why you feel this way and why you feel you have to go on these apps and if you feel like that's your only choice and that's the only way you'll get to experience these things then we once while he's show you how to stay safe And we wanted to tell you what to watch out for in the red flags in the consequences of what you're about to do. Because i think. I think for many people deleting these apps is in an option or not being on these apps in an option. So we have to be considerate of that and say well let us help you as well right because not everyone has the luxury of living in progressive town. Where you don't necessarily need these apps for some people this is their only resource and that's a whole nother debate about internet like the good and the bad that comes with it because the good things about these apps is that it allows queer used to have a place to meet people that are like them. The bad is that it opens them up to predatory behavior and groomers and stuff like that. Yeah i think it's like very important that we make clear that we aren't encouraging using like the usage of these apps but if you are going to use it you need to use it safely. I don't think our words alone or the information we're gonna share or the expertise We're gonna be provided with Is gonna stop the teenagers from going on this app. so yeah we just being consider them to But you know obviously the ideal situation is to hold these groomers and predators accountable and make You know have these teenagers day off the app. Yeah that'd be ideal but that's not the world religions have And so i guess i i. If you've been on these apps you wanna let you know what it's like. Because i think the one where specifically can focus on that we that we have been focusing on his grinder because that's kind of like the main app for queer youth And i we wanna talk about our experiences as a queer as a gay male right unfortunately in this episode we have the experiences of like any like transgender teenagers or lesbian teenagers. But that will becoming in the next few episodes and you get to see a lot of different viewpoints on how other people handle romance and dating and stuff like that and so in. My experience is that i've i've used grinder before and i've been on those apps and part of that is why i've been able to like see this issue first hand and why no. It's so bad. And the way i see it and in my point of view i always saw those absence kind of like. I don't know. I always felt like is not something that necessarily need. Because i've never really been desperate for validation or i've never been so insecure with myself that like i felt the need to go and search for these things and for me. The reason i use these apps is because I wanted to experience the same things as like. Three people do which is having like a few relationships and finding a lot of different people that like you might be able to be a match with and like having a casual relationship breaking up and then maybe getting into another one. Because i think that's really valuable in my experience. I think it's your teenage years are an incredible phase of your life. You're able to experiment and find what you enjoy what you don't enjoy and learn a lot about yourself right and you don't need to be in a relationship but I think some people enjoy if they feel like they able to handle and they're able to put in the work then it's something that you can participate in and i i wanted that And for me. I felt like my only option was to go on and apply grinder and tinder mumble and try to find people my own age and i'll make it clear that when i went on these ads i specifically chose to only talk to people my age because i i mean i was very well aware of the fact that i'm not gonna date someone older than me I'm not gonna be beating twenty six year old so i didn't wanna talk to them. They don't want to talk to anyone younger than me. I really went on the app to find friends and find people like me and people that are part of my community that could understand my struggles and also maybe find a partner And i am a believer that it is possible to use these apps and not have any traumatic experiences. But that's only going to happen if you're responsible with how you use these apps and when you're on these apps you shouldn't meet up with people that insists on staying anonymous. That don't wanna show their face that they don't wanna give you any personal information like their instagram twitter. Like phone number anything about them even name. Sometimes they don't wanna tell you their age Don't meet up with people like just pressuring you for sacks. I can you send something. He's a news. do you wanna meet. You wanna meet up. Meet up with those types of people. Don't meet up with people older than you. That is a probably could. That alone can save you so much. Trauma in itself is domino. But people older than you It's just not really worth it right And i guess i'd say another thing to watch out for Is is yeah only. Meet up with people your own age. If you're able to go on these apps and you can meet up with people that are like the same age as you die and you could get to know them first and you know. Become friends talked to him for a couple of days. They're not pressuring you they're respecting boundaries. And they're respectful and they're nice. Then you know you could talk to them like maybe on instagram on snapchat. If you feel safe for them you could start talking to them and maybe eventually meet up and it doesn't mean it has to be for sex. It could be just as a friend as hang out and then maybe it turns into something else you never know but also if you do meet up with someone tell like a friend where you're going right or toll. Apparently someone that you're going to be there and you know if something happens like please do this. And i did all of that and i always made sure to be pretty safe and not talk to any weird people and i did meet people on that app I also like people that. I consider friends on that app. Were my own age And i think all that shows is that it is possible to use these communities as a way to find people. And there's actually. There's actually been a study done that like most teenagers that are going on. These apps are going on the to find friends That's like the main reason for a lot of people as they wanna find friends But it's also easy to get stuck up on the validation and everybody messaging you and wanting to hook up and stuff that you kinda get a rushing feel wanted invalidated and desirable so you do do it but then you regret it But yeah that was my experience. Yeah I feel like you don't need to like if if you're gal and you do need to or you want that of getting into relationships. I'm meeting other people here. Agent in your own community. I know this is not the vest alternative. But it's a safer alternative and that would be ugo 'cause you vote is for like teenagers Because if you are going to go on the app and your only intent is to meet with people your own age just you just use. You've oh so you don't expose yourself to many predators and everything On grindr like yeah. I agree with you. This is definitely a stigma when it comes to you know people like only desperate people go there like appeared. People are on there they just like to hook up and that's true for every every. Ah there's we're desperate like insecure people on every am but there's also a lot of good and that's what i said there's a good and a bad side to everything internet. You both one of those things. Where if you use a ri- it can be a very good resource and it sucks that. I know you has a very bad connotation People see this. I cringe to have its. We're only where people go on it but now it's very much a good resource for people who don't have access to other things. It's a little bit of knowing that it's usually the heterosexual people street people that are like. Oh who the fog is ugo. 'cause i mean i can't really blame because i don't expect them to understand the issues in the struggles of seeing everyone in a relationship and knowing there's no one else like you. Right is a really heavy weight on a lot of teenagers. And you boza great like resource for that and not only discord to on discourse also a really good place to find a sense of community and find people like you So those are just some ways like some places where you can find people like you and we have our own discord. Who if you want to go on therapy podcast dot com and then click on a discord time We just use these platforms and websites. Whatever that are meant for people your age I highly discouraged Anyone from having to download Grinder tinder or anything that is meant for people on eighteen years of age or older just because even if you even if you are safe and even if like you're taking all the precautions necessary and you think you're mature enough. It's dangerous and i feel like you're much better off using apps like hugo and stuff so i mean like you said everything's dangerous. Both right on discord dangers. Going on you. Angels going on instagram. Even could be dangerous so something to keep in mind that it's not about whether an app is dangerous or not because everything is but it's about how you could use a responsibly. And how you can keep yourself safe. I think if anything it's important we highlight The things you can do to be safe rather than the dangers. That are around you. Because i think when you say danger you sort of like scare people away or make them even more curious to see like whoa. What kind of danger is there. I wanna see it but when you say like just stay safe. It's like. I don't know to me. It's a little bit more positive a little bit more hopeful that like stay safe right. Just stay safe and that to me sticks a little bit more now. it's just like also keep in mind. I'd is legal. What like these options are illegal. The elon is not lee is legal. So keep that in mind i like. I don't know. I feel like i always have conflicting viewpoints will when it came to this. 'cause i really didn't want to promote any usage grinder or anything 'cause legal and i'm not saying that i use it but i'm just saying that like i highly regret using it and is just like i just feel like there's so many better options and legal options. Yeah that's a yeah thomason. I talk about this a lot Because we have different opinions. And they're both you know good opinions. But i'm a believer. That abstinence just doesn't were telling someone don't do something she doesn't work in. There's also research that shows it doesn't work and there's also psychology behind. Why doesn't work. And i've always been like. I think you can use these apps you could use a responsibly. Just like anything you could use it responsibly. And if you know how to use if you're safe with it there could be no harm. And i'm i'm a big believer in harm reduction and like approaching everything by trying to reduce the harm instead just completely not experiencing it because it's hard as a person to not ever do something your life i tell. You never absolutely never fucking like or smoke way to do. It's like really like never in my life. it could experience. That usually doesn't work. It's like well if you're gonna here's how to stay safe right. So i'm curious what you guys think are because thomas also has a viewpoint it's better to just not use it at all. Okay well obviously is very not use it at all. But i know that that's too idealistic and i'm also being realistic. And so i am embracing safe usage of these apps. But i'm also just reminding everyone that it is illegal to use and Don't violate the rules. Like i did. Because i mean it's just it's not worth it at all and yeah yeah it's also annoying because a lot of these apps don't have any age verification and thomas has is like illegal which technically is if you wanna look at illegally And it's unfortunate that these apps don't have any sort of age verification. Like if you go on the app right now you can put in a random email a password. The only verification is one of those things where it's like tap all the images that have a traffic light and it just has you do that. You verify your phone number and you could use. Yeah you get banned. You would just use another random email. I put random letters and gmo dot com. And it lets you went. So there's no sort of as i think they should the checkers scattered. Yes i know a lot of would do that but for something important. Is that like literally crimes are being committed now like old men or just like being predators toys little kids. That's just messed up. I honestly think that these companies and apps they don't address the issue because they're still contributing to like the usage of the so like profit off of them like they're aware of these problems happening. These apps aren't like oh this is happening. They know yeah he's crazy. The app stores is still keep them up. They should be like a big movement to just require big regulation. Yeah it really should be. And that's a big problem like more regulation on these apps and like you know if you're eighteen make it clear that you need to be eighteen for these apps and there's just a whole that's a whole nother like discussion On age verification the legalities of like what a company has the rights to do and not do so at the end of the day. It really just makes like grinder and stuff like shitty company for knowing what's happening and then choosing profit over the safety of its users And children really which is unfortunate Thomas mentioned like you bow and grinder. You're comparing the two and then you're just like let's all dangerous. I do agree that they are dangerous. But i think some are more dangerous than others. So i would agree with thomas us you bow instead of grinder Is because it is safer. Of course you know. They're both dangerous book. One is more safe. And i know that using these apps pretty inevitable which is understandable. I completely understand why. Just take the proper precautions And i don't know hopefully when you are older specifically to youth. You know when you're older you won't need to rely on those apps and you can get away from your house your town wherever you're stuck in that toxic environment So hopefully those after just a placeholder for now and then you'll experience it in real life using an app that is made for. Teenagers is obviously better than using an app made for adults so use the teenager. One if you can. And i feel like already. There's a power dynamic just in getting the app because most of the users from what i'm hearing are like old and so when you're young you're obviously going to be influenced to please them. You know you're going to say yes. I i'm consenting but you're only saying that because it's an older person you feel. You might feel intimidated or you. Just want to validate them. And so you're not really saying yes for yourself you sing yes for the other person i feel like the difference in using those apps is that you feel obligated to like somebody something on grindr versus ugo like you both like. Oh it's just like teenage somebody my age. I don't care exactly you go and grinder and there's up yards exactly Yeah yeah i say. We remove the stigma from you. So i i know you think it's cringe but this is really helpful for people and shaming people for using you calling them desperate calling all. This is really really bad because there are some people who this is their only option. And it's just so. If i think if if you were aware that like some people are meeting up with adults. 'cause they're like they don't have anyone their own age. You definitely would not be saying that so. There's nothing wrong with using yugo. You don't have to if you don't like it. That's fine but don't shame others who that's their only resource for finding people liked them exactly And like once you do. Shame them then they might move onto another app. That's like worse and they're not gonna tell anybody insulin. It just becomes a risk because just having conversations with you know some random person. They're not gonna tell you because now they don't feel safe exact and so they don't have anybody to protect them protect queer youth. That is the goal project queer youth anyways that and also do. I do want to say that. This episode is presented by breath week. And like i said earlier breath. Work is an app that allows you to control your breathing and a guide you through breathing exercises to help you calm your anxiety. Help you be more focused and help you be more aware to I have used breath work before and is really helpful. Really like a breathing and such and i've seen a lot of research around the about why breathing powerful and wide such a good thing. Hopefully you could use the app. You could go on the app. Try breath work and try you know taking a breath taking a breather and hopefully helps conjuring zaidi because it definitely helped me so thank you again breath work for sponsoring this episode. But i think that's it That's it for this episode. Which wanted to talk about the issue. Give you like some information about what it is. Who it's affecting and Wide such a problem. And i were so excited for this campaign. We're gonna have a lot of cool things on our instagram. Making a lot of you know flyers with more info and infographics so to teenager therapy on instagram. To see all of that and at teenagers therapy on tiktok to cr clips At teenage darby on twitter to see the tweets that were making about this and supporters in I dunno reshare stuff. Reshare it Get the word out like this is the one thing we really do. Need your help on his suggest. Share everything that we post this month because it could reach someone that really sahira And if you're going through this if you're on grindr you're talking to older men. I just ask you to stay save and please like realize that you're worth so much more than that. You're you're desirability. You know people wanting wanting your body in a sexual way doesn't determine your worth either. Some an older man wanted you someone not wanting you doesn't mean you're less valuable than others or less desirable So please don't believe that and yet your body is in the only good thing about you and hooking up with adults is also not part of the experience. That's not true anyone that tells us just a normal part of our community. That's not true amish. Shouldn't be and it is not a flex nod nod affleck's so just stay save. Please only meet with people your own age And stay safe on these apps and we don't want you to get hurt and if you've already experienced this and you feel you have a lot of trauma you're just feel hopeless as to how you can move forward just know that your trauma doesn't define you. It is possible to move forward and it doesn't Define who you are as a person and you can be. You can recover. And it shouldn't be holding you back. And hopefully our talks with experts in the upcoming up so it's will allow you to gain some insight as to how to move forward with all this. Even after experiencing stuff like sexual assault or grooming and other predatory behavior so but that being said thank you so much for listening anyways. Thank you yeah. Thank you stay tuned for the rest of the campaign. I think it's going to be really helpful and reshare repose common like everything to support as means so much so thank you for listening and we'll see in the next episode of this campaign by this episode is sponsored by anger. A lot of you guys always ask us. How do you record a podcast. How do you record your potty has and how do you put it on spotify apple podcast and everywhere else while the answer to that is anchor. It's what we use to upload. Our podcasts spotify an everywhere else that you listen to it It makes super easy to record and publish and also allows you to make money while doing it. So download the free app or go to anger f. m. to get started. Now i want to tell you about anchor but specifically increased music plus talk feature with music plus talk you can creating music plus talk show. That has music in it right. That's cool so you could add any songs spotify directly to your episodes alongside your talk segment So there's a lot of possibilities you could add a song that matches the mood of the conversation. Always just the song that you really like really cool. So you've got an idea for a music plus talk show just head over to anchor dot. Fm music plus talk. That's the fm slash music. Plus talk to sign up for anchor and make your own music plus talk show for free.

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James Wright on Coming Out, Dating, and Toxic Masculinity | #SwipingSafely

Teenager Therapy

28:05 min | 4 months ago

James Wright on Coming Out, Dating, and Toxic Masculinity | #SwipingSafely

"Hey everyone. Welcome back teenage therapy. I'm gay oh and today we have a really special guest james. Would you like to introduce yourself. Is i'm james You might have seen me on tiktok but yes. I'm excited to be here today. In talk yet ames. Yeah how are you. I'm doing pretty well. How are you. i'm good. I'm excited to talk to you about this so on for all the listeners This is part of a campaign. We're doing which is called swiping safely. And what it is is we're focusing on the exploitation. Lgbt you plus youth in all in communities and how we can help facilitate communities So what that means is basically trying to warn teenagers about the dangers of being on apps like tinder bombo grinder as a minor and the consequences that that could come from that So james would you You recently came out right. i did I think in december of twenty so couple months ago I was in hawaiian. Just figured it was time. And i wanted to. You know come out to my or my following. Just i don't know if it was like a surprise to a lot of people so i of saw it as like thirty two to like be a wake up call for people. I guess you could say just in. Just show that like you know. It's like i'm gonna break certain stereotypes into show that like you know anyone to not be straight and you don't have to look a certain way. Do you think you look straight and people like very much thought you were a hundred percent straight that way. no yeah. i've i've gotten that before. But i mean i don't like looking i mean i don't try to look certain way but like i like uber like i didn't expect that only just just knowing how people automatically assume that lake straight is a defoe personnel or sexual a no for sure that is a big problem and also like what does that even mean to la- gay like the exact right. There's a definitely i think. When you really look into the commissar like damn. I didn't expect that from us. Like why not do away that you expected it a gay person to act. Did you come out was gay or bisexual pan. Sexual came out as bisexual. Nice actual. yeah. So i'm i'm interested to know how you came to find yourself on how. How when you realized that you were by sexual So been for a pretty long time. I've known that i wasn't straight But like growing up if elementary school. I only like which obviously he's like. I can control anything but it was only had crushes on girls. I mean it wasn't like hard to Or wasn't like a hard experience to like. I don't know but anyways like middle school. I like puberty time. That was when i was kind of having a rough time. We'd like you know having to fit in and stuff. So i feel like middle. School is definitely the point razek. I am certain way. I was starting to accept it and then finally in high school for all the social media stuff kind of like really kick gen. That's when i really truly accepted myself and then came out. It was like a long experience. Yeah what happened in middle school. Why why was that like a a sort of a starting point for everything. So i feel it goes kind of a hard time for everyone because you really you. You have a lot of hormones in your body. But i went to a christian. Middle school is a private school so we did learn a lot. I mean obviously it was such a good experience in it was. I did learn a lot but there are some things that you learned that are like you know going against your own self. You know like he saw two things that's just like kinda make you rethink reality and it's just like you know your your your middle school and you're like why is the world treating you like this and it's just a rough time but you kinda i learned to accept it and you know live with it and everything that you ever have like conflicting feelings about yourself. Because he wearing much christian school was that that play a part in how you foul and how long it took to finally fully accept yourself. So i mean i'm not really religious now but at the time i definitely was like religious and myself i def- i mean. Obviously you know in the bible says homosexuality is a sin. But i truly believe that. Like a good christians believe that like they love one and in all honesty. I don't think it's even a sen- So i mean personally conflicting views. It was just like the fact that like the world were treated. You know The lgbtq community in like certain countries like unfairly and it was just kind of like a cherry on top to link see that like some of his. Some of these christians say that they're christian but they're homophobic but yeah i think it's interesting And something we talked about. A lot is about being bisexual and internalized homophobia and how that kind of has an interesting way. It affects bisexual. People because i mean if you're gay in your you someone phobia most people just like turn to hatred and stuff and like they get really angry themselves but i think when you're bisexual it's so easy to justice. Just say i'm not gonna like boys or any man. I'll just stick to girls because that's what's normal. Did you ever experience any of that. That like you knew you like both but you purposely only sick that women as a you know a way to feel like everyone else will obviously like Growing up. I feel like everyone kind of experiences. Or is just like raised have internalized homophobia because that's just like our society is so i mean they're definitely worse than points where i was like out. It's easier to Now rather than holding hands with a guy in public. Because i mean i also grew up like an athlete and i did sports so i mean i guess i did kind of see that like getting with a girl was easier and that does kind of suck. Because it's i don't know you. You can't control your feelings. But i mean i've learned a lot definitely but it definitely was. That internalized homophobia definitely affected me that way. So you get to high school and you start really like figuring out what. Why didn't you come out sooner. So actually i came out when you know the pandemic started and we were in school. So that's that was that. But i'm also high schools like a hard time for everyone and i mean personally. I like kind of knew that wasn't straight blake. I didn't really want to accept. Or i didn't really want. I don't want to change people's like in my mind. I didn't want people to have a different opinion about me. Which obviously is shouldn't even matter. Because i'm not. I'm the same person but i was scared. People like people aren't gonna like me anymore. You know really you thought they were going to see us as i guess less masculine Stuff like yeah. And it's so weird. Because i did have those dots. But like when you think about it. It's so such a weird like judgments go like. Why is it like while. Was i like prioritizing masculinity so much point i was like i'm gonna like hide a part of myself and masculinity and femininity. Feminity are literally like. They're so unimportant but they are important so unimportant. So yeah now. That's an interesting point. That i think a lot of people have trouble coming out mostly just because they don't wanna be proceeds less masculine Ride especially when you grow up around like a group of when you grow up. I guess looking straight in your around with like a bunch of boys in. You're always you know you're you're an athlete. You do all of the obvious things so coming out as gay gets a little bit harder because if you do come out then everybody will start to be like well. Maybe you don't belong with us anymore. And then you it almost feels like coming out means you're gonna lose like a part of yourself a part of masculinity and there's a lot of pride in that I think there's a lot of fear with that and you're right it is. It is very disappointing. I we do you know attached so much value to masculinity and femininity Do you. i'm curious when you hadn't come out. Do you think you're able to this. Might be like obvious but d. Do you feel like now that you've came out you're able to just express yourself in any way no matter if it's like a let's say you're you do something and it's a little bit more feminine. Do you still have those doubts. Have only maybe. I shouldn't do this too. Feminine doesn't really matter anymore I mean i feel like it's been like internalized homophobia has been so ingrained in my mind that there's obviously going to be some points where i'm like. Have that swing judgment and like oh no. I shouldn't be playing this example like songs or something like give them. Obviously at songs are even. I'm just doing the stereotype. Like the other definitely. Are those points where i'm like having those sites on knows someone going to be suspicious about something but it's honestly but then i like i remember in every. Tell myself that. Like it's not important. And i just need to do what makes me happy and not because other people there. I mean other people's opinions do matter but they don't matter when it comes to like your health and your mental health. You know right. yeah. I think it's kind of funny. Asong even is enough to make someone question themselves to the point that. I know maybe i shouldn't do this. so what was it like after you came out. What were the reactions with your friends. Family stuff like that. In all honesty it was like a lot better than i thought it was going to be really. I honestly think. I'd like made more friends coming out of it than i did before and i didn't lose any friends i mean even if i did i guess i didn't even realize it but that goes to show like who's important your life i. I've had a great experience honestly think i'm glad that i did it because i feel like i changed so many people's opinions about like just the lgbtq community in general. That's not saying that every person that looks like meat is like. I don't know the i don't whatever but i'm just glad that broke certain stereotypes because like that's definitely needed that's on sanita but definitely just think that's what it's going to take for people to really change their mind about the gm in snow. No i get what you're saying. I think that like. I guess the fact that people saw you as very like straight like you know an athlete in very masculine and ended up. Also being queer is important because that does break a certain stereotype of like you know not every queer man is like a very feminine and extravagant. You know all of these things like low key very I guess toned down So that you didn't like some people that weren't wearing your life then on your life now so there were some people that kind of distance themselves from you a little bit. I mean go thinking back. I honestly could not tell you a name but like i'm quite certain there probably were like people that like just had keno wrong or a feeling about the whole thing and i guess they haven't checked i honestly have. I haven't had any bad experiences. I haven't thought thought of anyone specific. And when you say that question so yeah you think the reason some people distance themselves just they feel a little uncomfortable by i yes totally an honestly like from my own experience. I know that like i. I wasn't homophobic. But i know that i was kind of scared around someone who is very comfortable with themselves in all honesty. If i'm not assuming anything but if you hard that uncomfortable in that offended then little thank you so angry Interesting and it's also nice that you like admit that you also kind of felt a little uncomfortable beforehand. Was i really just like. I don't know a scared. How come to where they were with themselves and maybe a little bit of just envy at that definitely. No it's i mean 'cause it takes a lot of courage for someone to really be comfortable themselves and that's what sucks about society because it shouldn't take that much courage but it does and so seeing someone that like. I really wanted to be. But i was scared to be definitely with like you know. Listen but yeah so moving on from coming out and stuff glad to hear you gotta had a good experience the the next thing that is basically like the main aspect of this campaign is like love and romance right and the fact that like. There's a lot of young people that live in areas that maybe aren't as progressive as like la in california because of that they don't have access to like people who are accepting and they don't have axes to the support system that that people like us do And there's just not enough people like them and they're not able to experience things that their street counterparts do such as sexual in exploring the romantic interest in having a crush and all of that. Have you had a chance to explore any of that have had a chance to explore that new aspects of your sexuality so Interestingly i so i came out in hawaii in december And then two days. After zone. Hawaii i met this guy and we started dating and it was good. Relationship is definitely a good learning experience. And i was glad that i had been in that relationship to learn a lot of stuff but i don't know it was just. It was just the odds that i got into a relationship two days after i came out then it definitely put me into the world of relationships with guys taught me a lot and i was like to experience that you know. Was that your first time with having any sort of experience with a guy yes. It was my first time. How did how did that feel. It felt amazing obviously I feel like love and general and relationships are such a fun experience and it definitely. I do agree with the statement. That's or the phrase that people say like love is a drug because it really is like. I know when i was in the relationship i like put all my energy into it and it's addicting is on but it definitely. I feel like love and relationships general teachers so much about yourself as well and so there's just so many benefits that from it and There was even after you came out was. You're still a part of you. That fell uncomfortable. Just odd being out in the open. You know with with the boyfriend and stuff definitely like i know like we obviously always had to watch out when we were holding hands in public. And you know. I mean even though like i didn't want to. It was still like you know just a safety issue. And that's what sucks about society. But no. They're definitely were those feelings. And then obviously like i see some tiktok sometimes words like i can't believe my family to see me kiss a boy at my wedding. And it's just like i'm you'd obviously. I've had those thoughts. But i think it takes more like exposure to like seeing seeing people like us or like. Yeah no i think it's about exposure I think for a lot of young people. It's still very much weird for their family to see that. Because i think people see gay people is very weird different and like the idea of something like a man kissing another man like a masculine man. Kissing another mass human is weird people at the very least the exposure that has been out there has been very feminine men kissing one another and that's accepted but society as a whole is still very much uncomfortable. i think with A masculine person being queer. And like you know. That's why he's talking about like saxon. Stuff is still very taboo. Very uncomfortable for a lot of people And all of that When you were younger or even just now did you ever get like any sort of education into like the world of Being bisexual insects and having sex with another man and all these things like was that education. Something that you have received so there definitely wasn't any education like that in school But my uncle is based on my dad's brother So we definitely. I'd knew of like you know. I was educated. Me no my parents everything they were accepting as well so that was a benefit but now they're definitely there's nothing in school about it and i definitely think that there should be a push for that because it's such a big percent of the population in the fact that like there isn't any coverage in education or anything. It kind of fuels the like fuels. The you know people say homophobic or to key people in the closet which obviously is not what they're trying to do but yeah that's interesting and where you ever when when you when you did. You got a boyfriend stuff. What were some of the things that you learned that were different. I mean i. I assume you've been in a relationship with a girl prior to that right. Yes where were the main differences in did a few any different was basically just the same thing So when i started dating this guy he had not come out yet so that was definitely a different experience than being with a girl it like. It was a lot of like you know kind of seeing him become more comfortable with himself. And i think in that position. It's kinda like. I should have waited just a little bit just because like i didn't wanna like affect my mental health when it came like i don't know i didn't want to deal with other people others people's problems but it definitely was a different experience because I mean obviously is not gonna. I mean she can't come up. Girls not gonna go the experience of like you know like am. I losing my masculinity now just like me. Yeah did you ever feel like you're losing your masculinity. I'm i've had experienced is yes i feel like i've actually had pretty pretty good luck with telling myself that it's the concept of masculinity is so stupid and i'm also pretty big man like i'm six three. I'm like two hundred and ten pounds. So i'm like why the looks of. I'm a pretty scary man. Oh it's like it's just so stupid. How people play such like. I don't know so much emphasis on masculinity and stuff when like it's doesn't matter like i can be feminine as i want but i can still beat up a home even exactly Do you think the reason well. This is a piece of a common issue with like people in clear teens is that they kind of looked to older people as their safe-space right and when they're dating someone a lot of these people go on like dating apps and when they do that they go on these apps and they're they're looking for older men because they find a sense of comfort in them they find a sense of acceptance someone that truly knows who they are and they're unapologetically themselves. Have you ever felt any sort of pull towards someone like that. That is just much more experienced very much shooting themselves me personally. I don't think i've ever like really like looked for an older man. But i totally understand why people are interested in that because i mean that is such a big thing like the queer communities that like like the younger you are you kind of. You're not really comfortable with yourself like you said it is a yacht and like you said it does provide a place of comfortableness and safety. But i'm me personally. I've never looked for an older guy. Because i don't know i just i do know how dangerous it can be. Sometimes i do like certain apps that are just like very predatory and it. Just i know the whole situation is pretty scary but i understand why yeah. Have you ever used a dating apps after coming out like tender. Bumbler grinds me people. I just turned eighteen so it was like two months ago but i think the tender that was. I've tried it out for a little bit. i don't i don't really like obviously. I'm not hating on dating apps. But i feel like it's it's it's a little bit overwhelming honestly It's fun i'm not gonna lie. It definitely is fun but like trying to keep up with so many different like matches and stuff. I don't know. I feel like a conversation is just to the same thing and much at the same time. You can only handle so many. Like i get to know each other. I guess exactly. How are us you are you. What are you doing. what are you doing right. yeah it's definitely little superficial at times But like you said it is fun it is. You got that rash of like everyone's like swiping on everyone's doing all this so I see why people are attracted to it. The other thing is that people a lot of people have a hard time being bisexual I think a lot of people either wish they were fully strayer fully gay because being in the middle is a little bit odd. It's like an awkward spot to be in like people often ask you. What do you guys more. do you like girls moore. You like ninety percent gain ninety percents ten percent straight. The is the fact that you're by like harder on you. Do you wish you were just straight or gay or are you fine completely and i mean i. There's so many people in my life that like i. I don't blame them because obviously it's an interesting subject. I get the question all like all the time like you do more or like are you actually buy and even like myself like i conflict with myself. Wait to only like boys or dwelling girl and then there's moments where like no. I've had the i can't like invalidate my feelings but it is like i feel like there is a lot of confusion with bisexuality and that's why i also don't like labels either because i feel like you should just feel what you wanna feel instead of like. Yeah i have to do whatever but definitely it's been a hard experience. But i feel like it's also been a good learning experience as well. How are you coping with With i guess yeah. I think more than anything of a constant like invalidating of your feelings and you know you question yourself lot probably so i do see how someone could be offended by. No it's just like the deal d. legitimization of bisexuality but me personally i feel like okay like if uncomfortable with myself and i'm having feelings for a certain person than i shouldn't i shouldn't let someone else's opinion like really affect that at all And so i mean me personally. I'm i'm doing pretty fine. It's definitely sucks for people to think that way but it's not affecting me. I can like who i want like. That's really good. Well it's good to hear that you had such a good experience. I think just the fact that you would come out so publicly after there. Was this sort of pressure on you to look a certain way and be a certain way. I think it's going to help a lot of people and It's it seems like you got a lot of great stuff going on to stanford. Recently congrats on that. Are you excited to me. Everyone knew there. I mean that's a whole new environment. Right now i am so it's gonna be a good step away from like the la social media. Were all and i've already met a couple like a tiny bone social media. So that's what i'm excited about and it's good to start a new life. You know really be yourself. And i don't know i just know it's interesting Because yeah i guess you will be away from like the la scene in the social media world. Are you planning on. Maybe toning down your emphasis and your focus on social media. While you're there definitely. I'm i'm going to be studying lot And i'm also. I'm throwing like contract there and so i'm conducting. A lot of my schedule is going to be filled. But i might. I'm i'm going to probably like i'm not gonna go completely. League goes but yeah. I'm definitely a slow down a little bit exciting. No yeah it's it's a good change of pace Do you think do you think there. It's like a more 'cause you said like it's kind of like a fresh start. There's like no expectations of you on what to be. Definitely i think i mean obviously people might like some people might know who i am. So that's gonna be a little bit. I mean but i also think i'm comfortable so i'm not gonna change anything but it definitely is a fresh calm. College in general is just a fresh. Start for everyone you know. Yeah your hometown friends more. It's just a new start. Your meeting new people. And also i find college in college campuses to be more accepting usually than like suburban towns. Yeah for sure. Yeah well as kind of everything i had for you. You have a anything else. That i didn't ask you. That you think is important to talk about I think i was gonna say that. I'm definitely lucky to have like the experience. That i had coming out but i do know that it is a very hard experience. For a lot of people and so obviously. That's not okay at all. But i just don't want people always expect obviously expect the best but just be safe and i know that it is a rough time for a lot of people and you know i'm always here to talk and i don't want you guys have the want you to be happy and just be safe. Yeah well thank you james for talking about me. It was great. Thank you so much for having me course. This episode is sponsored by anger. A lot of you guys always ask us. How do you record a podcast. How do you record your party has. And how do you put it on. Spotify apple podcasts and everywhere else while the answer to that is anchored. It's a we use to upload our podcasts spotify and everywhere else that you listen to it It makes it super easy to record in publish and also allows you to make money while doing it. So download the free in grab or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. Now i want to tell you about anchor but specifically inkers music plus talk feature with music plus talk you can create a music plus talk show. That has music in it right. That's so cool. So you could add any songs from spotify directly to your episodes alongside your toxic minutes So there's a lot of possibilities you could add a song that matches the mood of the conversation. Always just the song that you really like really cool so you got an idea for a music. Plus talk. Show just head over to anchor dot. Fm slash music plus talk that's anchored fm slash music. Plus talk to sign up for anchor and make your own music plus talk show for free.

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137: Cyndi Lauper | Part 2

Homo Sapiens

21:10 min | 2 months ago

137: Cyndi Lauper | Part 2

"Zindi lauper the second this to a lovely chat with lopa. If you haven't heard part one yet go back to click on one. Then come back here because this is part two cindy would you mind telling the story of gregory and angry natale. yes well. He was a kid. I guess in spanish harlem. He was a victim of abuse in home he had a stepfather that continually raped him from the time he was aid to the time he was twelve and at twelve his mother walked in on them him being raped and through the kid out. Good not the husband know their kid and so emit soil this in me the press every you know child abuse now every button This kid was out on the street at twelve. I knew him when he was twenty. Three twenty four. I think he died at twenty four from aids her to meet him. He was my neighbor. He lived downstairs from me. When i was in blue angel him and call and i had a dream about them before i met them. I dreamed that there were. The word is is weird. But i dreamed there were fairy princesses downstairs and they lived in a a sparkly like castle right so when i met them i my sister new call years from the east village and she was helping me you know when i moved in. She said oh. College see a call. Is my friends from ten street. So it's like okay. And so she went downstairs and introduced me to him and said hello and when i actually went into the apartment they had painted it all pink and took broken mirror shards and gloom so the what it was like it was it was a princess and i thought to myself only god and you know i. They became my friends. They they helped me. Make my big heart that i wore For privates when. I had a hard on that said i thought it was pretty funny and my hands through it and valentine's day so so it was you know it it just i. They were my close close friends. And as i got to know him and know his story. And the fact that if you're treated really badly as a kid and you're out on the street you very vulnerable to self destruct You feel like this. No is no farther down. You could fall Because you started down there so whatever happens. It doesn't matter because you've been there done that. And that's not true and that's where kids make bad choices. And that's why the lgbtq kids who are who are experiencing homelessness on the most vulnerable because the church is the take federal funds and keep in mind we are still a government governed by laws not by people or people's religion in fact a lot of people came to this country for religious freedom ranks so to then have these church groups involved in our laws right because espy separation of church and state. It has to be. That's our government. That is what this country is. Based on so for you first of all i could say if you had any compassion or any god and you would all you'd look at a youth who was experiencing homelessness and frequent tournament away because of gender identity or were purposely. Put them where your belief system Feels that that's the right thing to do. Because it is so wrong and they will leave. They will not get help and they will get into worse worse shape and those were the group because that's up to forty percent. That's what i've been working on. That's why because. I know firsthand what it does. I've seen it. And i just you know i just can't take it anymore or shut up about a situation that is just wrong. We're americans we were supposed to be open minded and we are the most close-minded races homophobic people. Sometimes i'm sorry. Was that like to him. Should we just. Jesus christ pepper up. My god comedy pocus. No no it's a beautiful story. And i think what i think is an incredible about is that you saw this and you did something about because that. That was a lot of people. Just see it and get cross about it. But they didn't about the true colors foundation. Now it's colours united. Just whatever you marriage marriage with other people no we. Yeah because we found that the work we were doing was Working with outreach programs bringing people together bringing government agencies and philanthropy agencies together to really accomplish things We worked with a lot of different. We did research i to find out what the heck was wrong and how to what we could actually do to fix right. Not not to say okay. We're going to have a Charity and we're gonna. Because i got no time for that known. I mean i gotta get it done right. Yes and we'd obviously al. I know a lot about it. Would you describe as a lgbtq youth organization where you help homeless lgbtq. Us is not the correct description these days. We have a lot of things we do. Yes we empower we lobby. We do if people can go and lobby for guns. We can go and lobby for kids. And i'm talking about from twelve to twenty four and some kids age out of Orphanages they age out and then what then. Oh see ya and then what they got no family you know and you bit of misfit. You feel like that. What i see. Youth as experiencing an embracing who they are in a world that's accepting and not so close minded. We're not the freak. In pilgrims burn and women at the stake because we want the property or we think they're witches because there are a little different you know going in that direction again. Yeah a little bit. When when you hear that a black man has been chased to be lynched. Okay well there are. These started to have lynchings in this country right after the. Yeah just after the george protesters all these lynchings and there's an except committed suicide now also like i think there's things like you know. The the percentage of homeless people percents of homeless people that are of color color. They brutal over euros. Wait a minute. They put these. Sro's which is single room occupancies for a homeless man who are some are sex offenders. Some are drug addicts. Som- are just fucking poor and need fucking place but what they don't have is social workers. They need people to talk to the counselors. Who can have them life coaches who can help them. Start over having new life you know. Just trip lobby entreat him. Why johnke and put like a metal detector in there. You treat people badly. They behave badly. That's just a common sense thing. If you had a dog and you smack the dog around constantly. What do you think that dog's going to do is going to be a biter and mental health. I think is the you know. That's another one. It's a huge thing. 'cause you know people who go into these traumatic things and there's no mental health sort of safety net for the but also i read something about you know when you think about it the way that mental health is so Seemingly seen as unimportant in in the united states when there's you know people who go out and shoot people of course bringing people social workers in crisis people to help the people who've been victims of this but what about the people who are doing the shitting. Where's the mental health care in the community to stop them getting to that point and that just that's that's as well this is any should in the freak imprisons and the fact that they have housed and that they we have a baby prison in our country. We have a baby prison. Who would've thought this we as americans we're going to save the world have a baby prison and that's okay or you mean the cages in h hook fed babies from the people who were trying to immigrate to this country. That's right and now the babies and they get money for everybody. Everybody that's in. It's a business. Cindy i'm i'm dying off your question. The may Today see we think that i was re reminding myself of some of the incredible stuff you said over the is over the past couple of days and i wondered if you have seen fleabag. No phoebe waller bridge is were. I tried to watch it. Did you see any parallels with iso seventy parallels with the stuff that you would talking about way back when you know all sort of the principles of not pitting women against each other trying to be more progressive about how women viewed and i got that firsthand didn't they. They pitched me against madonna. And everybody. And i just felt like how dare you that. There's not enough room for two women to be you know working. What is the problem. You have all these men. They're doing stuff. What's wrong with more than one woman. Being successful you know men who using the sexuality as well ladda people are doing what they do. I did what i did. It's apples and oranges. I don't judge somebody else for what they are doing. I do what i do. That's a new set of wonderful thing about it. Being a tactic to keep women in that place. Oh yeah oh yeah these women soochow how bad this how. 'bout a woman wants what she knows what she wants. She can see it. She knows visual. She knows what it should sound like. And what is she a bitch difficult. Yeah man knows what it looks like knows what it should sound like. What is he fucking. Genius show biz. Yeah now it's not big sets. Yeah do you feel about that has changed since you've been i ever talking about t- think is improved Very little well. Some you know some strides but let me tell you something. That's going on right now. We're all involved in black. Lives matters right being one way or the other you are. You have to be living on this planet and your kids are going out marching. God bless them. They've fighting the good fight. That's what we are supposed to do as americans we are supposed to win. We think it is wrong. Use our voice use our vote. I always say if you don't vote you lose your voice you lose your power. You have no one to represent you. You need to fight with your vote. That's what this country is based on. So anyway i just. I just i just think that in alabama and in a few places the right to have Your pregnancy terminated which is not something you want to jump to or like woohoo. But if you have to write. You can't know shocking. And and what they are doing is state by state. They're shutting down so there are different organizations now raising money to help these women and you know in suppor- again that that's what kills me. You know i always. I always have to lay off. Because i'm like. Oh yeah you don't want to kill the little tiny feed is you wanna wait till they're grown up and send him off to a war. That's all about your pocketbook. We'll get your face it just. It went so wrong. Didn't sorry no my god. It's not bleak because we have hope they're going to get you gotta be hopeful that it can change like the power. We have the power to make. The change must rise up and use your vote. That is the power. If we don't then we become powerless in a society that overlooks most people. Unless you're super freaking rich ended up just to wrap up. Thank you so much for this loveliest senior collection in the background. I love my. Hat's no look at their me to their amazing. It's they could serve sculpture on top of that wardrobe. I loved it. Well i decided. I looked up there and i said i saw a misdemeanor. Goria gms emporium in. I have hats and they're just sitting in the cause. I remember when i bought my hats. in eighty six and went into a vintage store and they were all on the ceiling and a friend of mine see. Ceo of pizza. She said to me. Hey rick up. There aren't those hats crate. And i thought. Oh my god. Yeah and so. I bought a lot of them but i thought why should they sit in the free closet. You gotta get him out. You know i was just wanted to say you know how your your house in new york. Your europe office and studio pleased that you. You're a place where you live is in that building the continental baths. No no. no that's sonya you got it wrong beyond sonya had that continental baths. Oh i used to go to my vocal lessons fa- katie. She was on the sixteenth. Four in crusoes old studio and i. Yeah that's where. I started learning from katie and i had dream about her before i met her that she was this angel and she she kind of is so so that was with in the hap thorpe. Which was seeing that was made supposedly by the astor's because they were jewish and the dakota did not allow jews in this shit is everywhere wallet time like when did we learn. Listen if we could take if everybody could move together and be educated and you get the great minds right. You don't wanna you don't know who the mind that got wasted because of the color of their skin or because of the agenda or because they just came from bed so much you know could have could have should coulda woulda you know fix. The planet had great idea for ecology had a great idea for economic that. You don't know so the fact that you cut yourself off by the knees thinking that the white man okay is king is ridiculous ridiculous anyway. Whatever cindy lauper. It's been a journey. I'm sorry but i feel great. I am still hopeful us. Good let's get to hear. I'm thrilled to hear that. You make me hopeful with people at you on this planet. We're all hopeful you know what's funny listening to that. It reminded me of a stood. Another study where i did a benefit for obama and the i i think in the first time he got elected i asked cindy lopate compete the musical guests and she did. She came and she sang couple songs and she was the main event but we when i before i left the stage i introduced. We sang songs together. And say what would we say. I thought we might sing the song we sang in the threepenny opera together but she said no. Let's do time after time i could. Oh my god. So i also you know in that film room. Michele's high school reunion. That's the song that me and mira sorvino and lisa couture dance to that hilarious. Sort of weird dance thing. We do at the reunion nine. An and so it's kind of quite big in my life anyway. And then cindy lauper asked me to sing with our so. And i had learned very nervous. And and she's kind of a stickler for you know she's always check she's always really say the anal and but you know it's really good. She really knows what she knows her stuff. Certainly so we were singing it. I had to spares the an comes in you go time after and then she would come in for the second so i went time after time expecting she would serve sing on top of me and go into the secretary. No stop stop stop. I said well you never seen the second time. You've never seen the second time. I say well at sei math. The two of us nice thing. No no you'd never seen and it's funny 'cause i remem- now you talk about it like i remember that it kind of leaves you wanting that she never says that word. I know time time to do the idea of having to sing something winston. I know it wasn't that fascinating and so nice to heat are so fighting and still the same. You know still such a trail blazer spit in our heart all years later listeners. We want to know a youth about that chat with the inimitable. Cindy lauper so you can write to us at. Hello thomas scipion. Podcasts dot com or you can go to inscribe sapiens facebook messages podcast on facebook. We should be here. We're awaiting your contact and she'd like to go to apple podcasts. You could review us as well which is always nice. Could subscribe as well if you don't already and if you could possibly win a t shirt a homeless t-shirt because we choose a review which is in the homeless if he's extra next week and you could actually win chris wrap it up with his hands and pop it in the post box. And if you'd like to buy a t-shirt switcher you can do. So because they're available for sale via allen coming to comforts shop ever presto comfort him sapien. Yes very reasonably priced delightfully comfortable. How quickly. I love mine. My sweater love it. And i'm so thanks for listening. Tell us what you thought dealer purchase. Tell us what you think. General take callousness. Lots of love and take care of russia here by.

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Trans Issues, Being Asexual, And Activism | #SwipingSafely

Teenager Therapy

1:01:18 hr | 4 months ago

Trans Issues, Being Asexual, And Activism | #SwipingSafely

"A guess we have. Hey welcome back to therapy. I'm gail and welcome back to another episode of hashtag swiping safely in this episode. We're going to be talking to activists. We have a lot of really agree. People that are on this episode With a lot of expertise behind activism what it means to be an activist how to be an activist And you'll get to hear from some really great people that will educate you more on a lot of issues such as you know being trans interested in transitioning and such and trans athletes. And then you also get to hear about what it is to be a sexual and what a sexuality is because it's one Sexuality that isn't really talked about much so have a really great episode for you guys before we begin you're going to hear about the un youth envoy herself but her introduce herself so here she is very happy to you today. My name is death by becomin- ica i'm originally from sri lanka. But i now look at the united nations as the secretary agendas in roy on youth. And what does that mean. That means i advise and represent the world's top diplomat the un secretary general on issues that affect anna related to young people. Now our today. Wow how did you even begin to get a job like that. This is certainly not a job out that existed. You know when. I was in high school or even recipe. Because it's quite a new role and the role actually came into being because a today our these younger than it has able being. We have hoffarber for today on the age of thirteen. I'm so the united nations wanted to create a focal point on an office that can be an interface with those young people and that can also be a bridge between young people and governments and the united nations so my was established with that in mind and i came into this role because in my home country sri lanka. I had done quite a bit of work when it comes to youth mobilization and youth activism on youth policy ending the national youth council of wine country. So all of that work that i had done in my national level and international level made me be appointed for this roy for years ago. That sounds really amazing. And as you know. This episode is all about activists and The activists in that young people can take in the kind of change they could bring about. So what is activism you-know-what who can be an activist And just how do you even become one. Anyone can become an activist. I think sometimes their Misconceptions and stereotypes in society that. If you're an actor is you need to have a make a phone and pasta and be on the streets. You're at a protest but trainings out. The ice added my activism by writing a poem to a newspaper. I was living in my home country. Sri lanka visit war happening. My countrymen through thirty along armed conflict and during that time i was always thinking of different ways that we can bring peace to my country entry. It's people so. I don't oppose him about it and that's how i started my activism. I know so many other young people which use different ways to express themselves and dimond for that rights and freedoms. So you don't necessarily have to be altered the streets protesting you can use odd. You can use theater. You can write a letter to your president your prime minister to your congressman nobleman and really find different ways to express yourself find ways that you also comfortable in expressing yourself and that anyone can become an actress. That's really great to hear. What is the importance of youth activism. As a whole. I think today. I would is facing so many problems because of the mistakes that were done by previous generations. Example your living in a world that is so uncertain today particularly when it comes to the health of our planet if you look at the climate change under daffyd speed that our climate is changing. We don't even noise young people and future generations have healthy planet to living on on. So i think it's so important that young people take this responsibility into our hands to reverse those mistakes that were done by previous generations and this means holding our elected political leaders to account but also leaving our lives and changing our lifestyles innova that we can be an example to those who came before. I know that you should. It's expected that adults will be role Children but i think the has come. The children and young people can will models for adults to follow because we really need to change the way that our world is going right now. Yeah i agree and because of that you think. There's a lot more pressure on young people to to do something and get the word out about the issues that matter to them maybe because they feel like their elected officials aren't representing in the way that they want to be. Then you know it's also not necessarily a good thing because if you are a child if you're a young person you should have an opportunity to enjoy your childhood enjoy. You toured and to do things that nola children people would do. But today the responsibilities on young people and children to go out into the streets and mont faction trump Leaders to speak up about issue sometimes even drinking their own safety and own lives in different faces like today we see in myanmar in columbia. Young people are the ones who have been targeted by the military enforcing their country just for speaking up and for demanding for democracy and accountability in that country. So it-it's not a good thing that we're putting the responsibility on young people. But i think at the same time see young people around the road really taking these matters into their hands on trying to bring about the change because you are fed up of seeing lack of progress we are fed up of seeing just speeches not action and really need all generation to take leadership and change the course of our world. Yeah well thank you so much for telling me that as you know. It's episode is filled with a lot of great activists are doing some very real work Specifically in the lgbtq plus community And just advancing things like trans rights queer rights and creating more safe community and society as a whole so to finish off. Is there anything else on your mind that you think is important for young people to know yes especially when we talk about activism. I think it's so important to keep on mental health in check particularly for young people because we know even before the kobe pandemic Young people more susceptible to mental health issues but for example suicide rates among Were higher than deputy is still be really even though. I know that all of you are really excited about bringing about change. You take that responsibility upon yourselves. Please make sure that you take care of yourself to and that you keep your mental health check because we need to stick your cells in order to be able to take care of this. Yeah that's really really important. Something that i would also emphasize taking care of your mental health is perfectly normal and if you need to take a break that's also fine. You don't have to be an activist. Twenty four seven. You can take a break as well Well thank you so much for joining me. This was really great. And we're going to continue with our interview with the next activists on twenty. Thank you for your time and Yeah thanks for having began Coming up next we have our first activist and we have skylar who is incredible. I mean he is incredible athlete. He's a trans athle- and he's been all over giving speeches about his experience would you like transducer yourself Yeah thanks so much. For having me gail schuyler. A uc him pronounced I'm a d- a speaker. Educator life coach and also author. And i guess instagram educator these days as well yeah thank you so much for being on this is going to be. I'm really excited to talk to you. Because i think your story is so unique can also one that is very rare to kind of come across and it's not really something that Is not something that many people have experienced. You're the first transgender transgender. Ncaa d. one meant athlete What exactly does that even mean. Yeah so the ended ablaze college. Athletics d one is the top tier of athletics And i was the first trans man to compete as a man. Indeed athletics What does that mean. It means difficult lonely in many ways it means it was empowering means i got to keep swimming which is one of the most important things in in In my life. For as long as i can remember Yeah means a lot of different things. So can you take us back to when you were in high school because after all this is a podcast for teenagers and i want to know who you were freshman year and what your life was like back then all right freshman year. So i'm like fifth fourteen fifteen right somewhere in there a honestly i. I was super weird really quirky. I love the color green still like the green of green beans. I was swimming all the time. That was sort of when i got. I got good at swimming. So i was training. Twenty plus hours a week my life revolved around swimming. I think all the clothes i wore were soon closed as well from different. Some meats i was very driven very I wanna say robotic actually at the time in this kind of can concise way into mental health as well. But i think i was so focused on swimming in on on school in getting good grades winning all those gold medals that i didn't have much of much of myself outside of those things the i became my accolades. Yeah that sort of summary of what. I was like at the time but i don't know where you want me to push all i can say more about anything i think i want. I would love to know I guess sort of your experience being out ubt hugh plus you in high school I think right now there is a. There's definitely i think. Lgbtq youth have a hard time in school. because it's a really interesting time for many of us where Starting to get to know ourselves starting to get to know who we are what we like and that could be very lonely ri- and For for many incoming freshman. They're starting to find yourself. So what were you like. Did you know who you were You know that you know or kind of community you belong to no. I did not I had inklings. I actually had not come out in ninth grade. I didn't know a lot about myself at the time or rather i was afraid to come out. I think at the time. I i'd figured out liked girls but in ninth grade actually switched from one. Swim team to another team is a very small team that i started on switch to a bigger team and i think that word squelched all the self discovery that i have been sort of leading up to until then because the new team i felt was very homophobic was very slow Very sort of like. I don't know house what they were the popular kids at school. Do i mean. I just felt very not not could be myself there The first questions a lot of the girls asking the new team was only god guys. Do you think are cute. Like what guys do you wanna date and it was all about is this and i was like. I don't know you know because that wasn't something that i was interested in I think that that really threw me for a loop at the time. I was presenting as female assuming swimming on women's team. I thought that i liked girls. But i knew i wa. I felt like i shouldn't so i was very ashamed. Actually if my sexuality at the time and knew nothing about my gender so in that way. I think to what you're saying absolutely i was out of very difficult. Time as ineligible q person as youth in high school because i felt like i had to not be myself most of the time. It wasn't until junior year. That i that i came out so it took me a while really and so you said you knew you were too scared was why were you you i mean. I guess it's kinda obvious why you were scared. But what kind of gave you the courage to come out. I got to a point the summer before my junior year in high school. Where i think. I had a dream actually about telling one of my friends on the swim team and she had been supported my dream and i and i remember feeling this immense relief. I've been so anxious up until that point. And i thought gosh i really just got gotta do it. I gotta tell people. Because i got to be able to talk about this and i felt this. I felt a pressure of very close with my parents. Growing up actually felt pressure to tell them first. Before i told my friends. So i i did that and i just think i just like pulled it together. One day i just have to tell somebody I need to tell somebody so. I told my dad that i liked girls in like the five minutes. It took to drive to practice dancing. Okay bye got out of the car and left him he. I i remember he. Parents are very progressive and they were disliked Okay and were confused as to why i had to make it like a big deal who unquote Somebody would have been fine so it was very you know not a big deal at home but when i when i went to some practice i still didn't tell anybody so a i actually didn't never came out as gay woman to my friends in swimming until way later on when i came out as trans man. And how did you figure out that you were a trans and that were transgender. I think that's a really complicated issue. That is so difficult to come to terms with and just realizing yourself. So how were you able to do that. Figure that out. Yeah i mean. I think it's difficult but it's also not difficult in the sense that it's putting words to a feeling like i think a lot of trans people always belted the w- the way we feel about ourselves. Just how do we put words to it. And how do we get the courage and the resources to that actually. Speak about it I think i just i. I wanna sort of respond to that thought of always difficult because it is an isn't and i liked to also remind us that sometimes beauty and like hey i do know myself and the difficulty is being able to claiming nassir necessarily knowing right. I know that's not what you're saying. I just wanted to sort of expand on that for me that space those resources. That courage came through therapy. So i went to a residential treatment center actually at the end of highschool. I took a gap year for mental health specifically. Because i was struggling so much and they said you know what i don't baby my therapist said i don't think that outpatient therapy One hour of therapy a week is enough. You need more And so they recommended that they take gap year. They sit out the. You're actually going to be able to deal with any of this unless you go to residential treatment therapy twelve hours at every day for months until i did i. I was miserable. i was so depressed. I was so Struggling at the time as struggle masseuse analogies well in eating disorder. And i just said i gotta try something different. This isn't working at that center. I was finally able to unpack the things that were hurting me. One of those things was gender. And i was able to realize i'm actually transgender. I met other transport that was life changing. I mean being able to see myself in other people have finally reflect my my childhood. My boyhood Even though i was given girlhood and enter how. I walked through gender at the time. Being able to somebody else was so illuminating. It's so interesting that one of the biggest factors was just seeing other people like you. Yeah i think. That's i think that's unique right. I think visibility is saves lives Every day because like us we say oh we can exist to and we'll be google you know example for example transgender sumer trench interpersonal transgender athletes. Specifically i think being able to see other people like me would have been so helpful before i came out in that. That's why choose to do the work that i do now because night you can google transgender sumer and athlete and have somebody pop up i pop up for the trench under similar one and It's not about me popping up right. it's about somebody being there. Because when i was googling people nobody nobody came up. And i concluded the batman. I couldn't exist so even when i figured out that i was trans. I still didn't have the right visibility and now there is that visibility and when a when a kid is googling transgender swimmer or transgender athlete. They're googling do. I belong in this world right and i want my picture that comes up on that search returned to be a resounding yes. Yes absolutely transits. Belong here belong in sports shoe. That's that's really inspiring. I'm amazed that you were able to go through such a hard period especially being so young and overcome that and not just overcome it but really like thrive afterwards and you became a a top athlete as a as a swimmer. What was that experience like when when you kinda came out of it that the performance even increase in get better as soon as you of concrete your mental health. Yeah i mean. I did get faster in college but i will add that i was not nearly as competitive as was competing as a woman. I i was probably the top one percent before i was. I was seated to be very much top. The top of the of the of the ncwa swimmers for the women's side but as the men's side ended up being the top like fourteen percent. Fifteen percent Which is not top one percent. But it's not. It's not terrible right so i think it It was a different a different game in many ways than i was definitely starting from a disadvantage of just barely even beginning my transition. When i started college so physiologically speaking i was quite behind but But there was so much glory in just being able to be myself. And i was very proud that i ended up. Not being terrible right being pretty decent fingers but But it was different and i performed way better than i had ever done before and beating myself was really The number one goal. That's really that's really good to hear. I think it's interesting. Because there's obviously a big discussion about transact leads and you know where they kind of belong on which team they belong in. did you ever kind of. Maybe doubt that you should go on the women's team or have you always been sure that no i belong in the man's team in the men's team compete there even if it's at a disadvantage so the summary is that. I think that trans athletes should compete for the team that they feel most comfortable with. And sometimes that's gonna mean a trans man competes for women. Seem as. I'm gonna mean that they could beat from nc like i did The the rules at the below based on hormones. So if you take hormones as a trans man like me then you have to compete as mail If you're assigned male at birth and you must compete as mail unless you can prove that you've been on one documented year of hormone suppressants right so you're homeless. Go down to an average female level than you can tweet us female. That's what the rules were For me. I think that you said the echo the word disadvantage i think the disadvantage for me is not that i'm trans. It's that i started puberty at at year. Nineteen as opposed to at your fourteen right. Most most boys start with your puberty advice. Start releasing testosterone around the ages of twelve thirteen fourteen and so by the time they get to college eighteen years old they then quote on austrian for six or seven years whereas for me i was starting to saas thrown nineteen years old and i started college three months after i started to saw strowman so the disadvantage on elective really clear about this the disadvantage for me was the timing and not that i'm transgender if that makes sense and the reason i'm rubbing Trans man can absolutely compete against and beat. This man and we are capable of doing that. We don't have to be at a disadvantage. I think at that statement again. This misleading. If we don't talk about in its specificity might just timing had a gotten possession. Earlier time before started competing on ansi might think i would have been not disadvantage But but but you know. I had a bit of catching up to do the first and second year. Yeah that makes a lot of times. I think a lot of these issues. Really come down specific about what we're talking about because that's the wrong language in the wrong wording to really get i don't know kinda lose the message as you spread over large audience and stuff so as a trans activists walking of issues. Are you advocating for him. What's the change that you're trying to make right now. Focused on fighting these anti transgender. Bill serena there's over a hundred and forty anti trans bills passing around the country in various state legislatures despite the fact that actually the federal government so biden administration has said clearly that trans people belong Which is wonderful but the problem is this this. This country is governed by state. Governments has so one hundred forty four right at the last time i checked. But over one hundred forty rate anti-trump bills most of them are focused on excluding trans people from sport or removing healthcare gender from health. Care for kids So what kids do they really like. Play sports and go to the doctor and eat food. They don't do a whole lot other than the things that were attacking the currently. The governments are attacking force. So this is a massive attack on trans-youth right and the thing is they're focused on them mostly for for really unfounded reasons for for things that are not actual facts. Every single major medical psychiatric and psychological association opposes the healthcare bands for trans youth. Every single major medical and psychological and psychiatric association affirms that the best way to respond to a transgender kid is to affirm their gender identity and to allow them transitional resources if they want them right but the bills are being like well. No we shouldn't because what whatever right. There's a lot of things that people try to report there. But mostly it's oh. Kids are not old enough to make these decisions. That's false kids are absolutely old enough to know their gender identity. They can actually know it as soon as they can talk around three to five years old. And that's according to many major medical association's right but the lawmakers are saying no. We know better than doctors about healthcare which is false lawmakers do not know better about healthcare than the doctors do so that sort of that one and the other side is the sports one which we could dive deeply into if you'd like but In summary they mostly want to exclude. Trans women from sports specifically from women's sports and a lot of that argument is based on fairness in this idea of. It's not fair because these these women were born men or their quote biologically male the first thing i would say if we're gonna talk about this you're gonna you're gonna not be transphobic as you talk about it so transgender women. Girls are not biological males. They are not born men. These are trans women. These are women right the first thing and then beyond that if you wanna talk about biology anatomy okay. Let's talk about that. But the reality is restarting from the fact that they are women. The next thing is they'll go about fairness thing biology. I gotta yada yada and the reality is these bills are talking about children in most children don't have biological differences to speak up because they haven't gone through puberty right and then people will be like well with the olympics. This and you know national level this and elite sports this feature not about elite sports because at all levels of elite sports there are already regulations. I talked about the ansi. Aa the ncaa already has regulations for transgender athletes compete and they do have to have hormone regulations. Same with the the olympics. The ioc the paralympics with international swimming committee. Like all of these major Associations of sports require you to have hormone regulations at elite levels. But if you're not a lead it doesn't matter and if you're a child right who's just kicking a ball with their friends because they're eight years old. It really doesn't matter because there are no biological differences to speak up before the age of thirteen. Ish right tanner stage to puberty which is a stage to When actual differences occur. So there's a lot there. We can unpack it. There's a lot of Actually involved misogyny sexism. It's not just transphobia. But i don't know how much you want me to dive into that. Yeah i think this is really interesting issue. And it's something that i'm still trying to figure out because i definitely i think the one issue that a lot of young people are confused about. That's a little unclear to them out of. They have a hard time. Understanding is just the concept of It is about fairness in for for the young people that i've talked to their main concern as well are. They biologically a male. So there's this advantage ornette advantage so curious to hear why that isn't true and why that's not a valid argument or concerns. Really be worried about. Yeah so there's a couple of the first thing is let's we talk about biologically male. Let's let's unpack that for a second because the reality is that although we're taught usually in whatever eighth grade biology that the world is comprised of people who are biologically beyond biologically female. That's biologically false. Biology is not ever that simple biology and biological sex is actually spectrum too. And there's not one way to find biological sex. Lotta people will think okay. Penis sequels man. John eagles woman that simple. That's biology right. Were chromosomes in the reality is. There's actually five main components of biological sex which include chromosomes hormones hormone expression which is separate from the hormone Internal genitalia an extra genitalia. And these don't always develop these neat little buckets of classically male classically female about two percent of the time they don't those folks are called intersex intersex means between sacks and the important thing about many important things about people who are intersex but one important thing to recognize is two percent is not insignificant to percent is actually a massive amount of population. Two percent of the world populations russian. Two percent of the population has red hair. Ablation is green-eyed so nobody is going around saying that red haired people don't exist or the russians don't exist people with green eyes don't exist actually. Those are pretty normal things to see around the world and actually russia's considered one of the biggest countries in the world right so in the same way that those people are significant and exist so to intersex people and far more common than we think so. The first step is this idea of like. Oh they're biologically melt. You don't know what their biology looks like. You don't know what's going on in their money. You don't know anything. Actually about their bodies the fact that they make had been assigned male at birth right. That's all you know So the next thing is that if you wanna stick on. The specifics of biology wanna talk about People with higher levels of testosterone people with penises people with testicle. We can actually talk about the biology so that we don't agenda people. The reality is that having a penis has no impact on sports. It does not make you better at a sport. in fact it might even make you worse at a sport to some degree because you have more to protect But for the most part. And i heard this argument before where people like. Well but they have penises and whatever. It doesn't make you better at a sport which leads me to the main part of this issue about the idea of being biologically male being an advantage is actually very sexist. It says boys are automatically better at sports. It's as people who are assigned male at birth are automatically better sports whereas this is not the case. Somebody who's just. Let's say assigned male birth waltz into a sports field. Let's say swimming. And they've never swum before they are not automatically going to be better than missy franklin one of the best female swimmers in the world or katie the duckie. They're not just going to be better. Because they were assigned male at birth. They're going to have to train. And this is again. A very sexist misogynist That people who are signed mill earth with the world considers men are automatically. Better at sports are not again before the age of thirteen people. There are biological differences anyways. That's really interesting. I know another thing that i've seen is When when we're talking about professional athletes is that that males i guess have a higher muscle density and such but does that difference. Go away when you When you're put onto For certain amount of time. Yeah so let's let's back up for a second. You just said professional sports. We're not talking about professional sports when we talk about any of these bills rates none bills in the in the country are applying to professional sports. The bills are children who are just playing on their local teams in their high school teams. they're not only the children. We're talking about kids. Yeah because all the level so when you say professional sports they have rules already there. And that's different and the state legislatures. I don't think actually have impacts on those sports. Were talking most the bills. And maybe i've been read every single one of them but most of the bills are talking about kids are not talking professional athletes. And so the argument that you just brought to me is the exact issue that happens when we talk about these in public and with people's but what about that that that you know that Anime fighter go to the nfl martin. Single time she's not a child we're not talking about children And by the way the argument about her as also unfounded people break things all the in fighting whether or not they're assigned to meal at birth. There are plenty of a bad accidents in fighting. So that wouldn't be can draw as well but that aside even if you did want bring validity to that argument that's professional athlete. This is not professional athletes. We're not talking about professional sports. Because the government doesn't have the ability to regulate that they are not a professional sports body right they're regulating what activities which includes school so. I think it's worth no sorry. I wanted to say one thing about to answer your question directly though when you go into sasha's suppressants so it's not that you're taking off your assigned male at birth and you've been through storage puberty. That means testosterone has been released in your body Then you go into social suppressants. It stops testosterone for being. You know through your veins and they actually give estrogen set and that lowers auction. Labs like you're asking interesting. That is so interesting that these bills are about children at a little bit. Hard to wrap your head around that the government so worried about. Its playing sports just for fun. I bring sports and we're talking about kids in sports. Who had the you know. plenty of. Legislators have had Transplant allowed in sports for decades. And no trans girl. Domination has occurred right. No transplant is actually even never been in the olympics and they've been allowed in the past two olympics so if anything trans people are vastly under represented in the olympics. We are non winning anything in the ways that the people are fear mongering about because the whole arguments this unfairness thing right. Which immediately bags. So they're going to win everything we're not. There have been like two cases. Maybe three transplant winning and sports right now and that is vastly underrepresented even those three cases. If it's three you could actually rental light by under three hundred. It's still way under right. So none of the Based in fact they are based in what fear and bigotry racism homophobia transphobia misogyny etc. I think there's really does come down to a couple of fundamental issues But hopefully in the next couple of years we start to see more representation and you know it's happening slowly but at least it is advancing. And it's thanks to people like you that make possible that people are willing to speak out. So thank you for for doing that. Work and apart from this. I want to ask about something. That's the such that this campaign because we're focusing on the exploitation of algebra plus youth in online communities and also how we can facilitate safer communities And the issue that we really focusing on is the fact that. Lgbt hughes don't have the same spaces as a heterosexual youth due to explore their sexuality romantic interest their friendships and find people like them. Is that something you think. Is that something you've experienced before when you were younger. Did you think about dating. And what was your mentality at the time. I mean absolutely. I experienced that kind of lack of resource and community. I i did have a gsa. So i was able to connect with other people who are from the lgbtq plus community. But i think that just because the way the world works specifically for me in swimming. I didn't have those resources that support. I think that was a really big detriment to me. So i think it's actually crucial that we find community and that's something that try to do online as well as provide more community for folks is As i'm able to connect with each other who are other other where people are eligible. You folks So yeah i think that's a pretty a pretty large issue within our community But i think social media is making it better in many ways than there's also always like hard edges of social media too. Because how can you control at the trolls. The you know the agreement says in the people who who mckay comment. So i think it's kind of a double edged sword in that way. Yeah did you have. Have you experienced a lot of toxic city on social media or do you think it's been overall a positive impact on your life. Yes absolutely spend tons of toxicity on on on the online wherever that be comments on news articles. Dm's to you know comments on my instagram especially ones that they get a lot of attention or engagement. And it's a overall positive experience. So i think both are true right and one of things. I've learned over the years and i think i learned this. Actually very early on in my account is that their opinions don't mean anything to me. Their opinions reflect them right. Their opinions are Their comments are hate their dams. Whatever are all reflections of who they are. I got a message recently. It was after. I posted on the gun. Control and black lives matter And just sort of the theme of white supremacy in gun control right or the lack thereof and somebody message me and was like i hope somebody shoots you in. The cop doesn't shoot them in that like he. They was really intense. And i read it and i. I had this overwhelming feeling of sadness for this person. Because i was like wow they must really be miserable or upset or something had a really bad day to message me. Something like that. Like what what cruelty. What inspires kind of cruelty. And it's usually cruelty to oneself or experiencing cruelty. And so i think and that's been sort of a practice that i've learned to understand where people coming from. It doesn't mean that it's okay be really clear. It doesn't mean. I was like oh. Let me. Just give this on hug. No i deleted the message block. The person Because i don't have space for that in. That's not mind to hold on i. I'm gonna protect myself. I but i don't get hurt by the messages anymore. I don't really feel like. I internalize any of them. Because it's such an expression of them and not a reflection of me expression of them not a reflection of me. it's really important distinction that learned. Yeah definitely is there. What's next for you. I guess is my question Do you have anything coming up. I've a lot of random projects So private is coming up right so that i don't know when exactly on this is going to air but i'm assuming probably in the next couple weeks or maybe during pride so i i'm really excited for product and Got a bunch of content planned. And i'm just excited. For sort of the heightened visibility that always comes with it and hoping that drives forward action as well that's long lasting. So that's that's the first one. It's coming up at got a couple of other things in the works but the biggest thing. That's coming up as the publishing of my book so i wrote a book is it's called. Obi is man enough and it's about a thirteen year. Old korean american swimmer who is also transgender. And it's about his life his story as he as he navigates swimming And transmits is is an important part of his story. But it's not the only thing and that was my goal was to sort of give us a little bit more of a human story where we're more than just trans people. You know a lot of stories. Focus on coming out and the trauma that comes with being trans. And i think those are valuable to a degree. But i want more. I want more humanity right. So i wrote that story from all the kids Who are transient who are just people to write And for everybody else to learn about trans kids so it's called. Opiates man enough. And it's out for preorder now on it will be available this fall in september listening next my next big project. That's coming out amazing well Hopefully everyone listening can pre-order. It sounds like a really cool book. And where can people find you. You can find me on instagram at at pink matej so pink like the color manta ray like the animal handler that exit for twitter which is sp underscore pink manner and my website is also rich with resources and ways to connect with me. I also offer life coaching. I have support groups for trans in. Lgbtq plus people many other resources online so my website is pink monterey dot com and you can find all of that. They're well thank you so much schuyler for joining us. Educating of on trans issues. It's been such a valuable conversation. And i think your story alone is already credibly valuable. So thank you again for the work. You're doing in a hope. Everything goes well for you. Thanks thanks for having me so that was schuyler. He is incredible. His journey is incredible in so inspiring and he really really had a really great conversation with him Learn so much about the trans community and the issues that are actually affecting them. Uh turns out there's a law that i didn't know about it so really great to hear super informative coming up next. We have an asexual activists And she is an advocate for asexuality awareness. And what it means to be a sexual so here. She is Hi i'm caroline from western australia. I'm a twenty six year old A sexual activist And in like the film and tv industry working to get more representation for the community. So you're a sexual. Atta what exactly does it means to be a sexual for our listeners. Our aware that Eight sexuality if you're unaware ease little to nari sexual attraction It's a massive spectrum of Sexual attraction and way kinda fit It's very underrepresented In the community and everywhere And yet we're just trying to help get it get more awareness about out of it Yeah so actually means little to no sexual attraction so that just means like there's no interest i i guess i off. We have to be cleared out sexual trashing and romance of attraction or two very different things right exactly yes So you can be a relationship with someone but you want sexually attracted some And there are many different factories because it's a spectrum so you can be sex positive you can enjoy sex. But you just don't feel that attraction You can be demi sexual which basically means you only feel sexual attraction when you feel comfortable and safe or intimate with much on and yet as a lot of different on different descriptions for people And how they fake spectrum Yeah so i really wanna die kind of look into those. Because i think what's something that's really helpful is What this campaign honestly about queer dating generally like why acquit us. Don't have opportunity to date people. But i also wanna take a moment to acknowledge that not. Everyone wants to date right. Not everyone wants magic partner. Not everyone's sexual harder. And i think that's something that's often just thought of as the norm in To break away from that scene is pretty unorthodox in. It's just not something that's very common. So i wanna take a moment to just really dive into what all of this means than what actually is how you can discover your sexual and just the different. Many many different ways that it kinda transpires across the spectrum so i started off what exactly is in means to be romantically attracted to someone but not sexually mean. You can't find them attractive e. I guess the personality but you'll have any sense that they are attractive person. I'm sorry sexual attraction. It's more or less like you see someone new one with them You can be like physically attracted to someone or statically attracted to someone but with a sexuality. It's the physical side. You don't wanna have sex with them. We don't feel that urge A lot of people would refer to being horny all lock yeah And so you just don't feel that. Oh that's just not a presence in your life A lot of people refer to it as being sexually frustrated and Kind of just on a warpath Thought the accents That some people just don't feel that so they don't feel any sort of i guess wanted to have sex with someone but does that also mean that it's not something that's possible for them like they're not able to physically bring themselves to having sex There are some people who are sex. Repulsed sir. The shia idea of sex physically repulses them and they feel really uncomfortable But on the other side there are people who are sex positive so They enjoy sex and that comes with it but they just don't feel that initial attraction that would lead them to that poff And it's just it is really hard to kind of figure out where you see on the spectrum and took me very long time A lot of that came from myron trauma Because i did identifies demi sexual came from sexual trauma that early feel sexual attraction to someone when i feel comfortable and safe around them. And it's like my body. Its own defense mechanism. Utter that sexual trach. I feel comfortable and safe in someone's presence interesting. Yeah the idea of being your sex repulsed bisects in also just being able to have it but maybe not necessarily seek it So i think what is confusing for a lot of people about eight x reality as they just can't fathom the fact that us don't find anyone attract the so is there. Is there a form on the spectrum where you truly don't find like people attractive. There's no form of aesthetic attractiveness over mantika sexual attractiveness. It's purely just their mind and personality. Yeah that would kind of full undo aromatic which is basically. You don't want to have any kind relationship with them. Like romantically you. Just kind of wanna be in their presence and especially fuqua youth. That would be a quick platonic relationship way. You just wanna be friends with them for life and be chilly their presence and foam dot kind of bond and this literally almost zero representation in film and tv sir that normalcy is kind of like with derived of it. People don't understand that it's completely normal because they don't see themselves in a character on the favourite. tv show film And so it's kind of like it's my soul peppis to kind of bring that normalcy in bring that light understanding that. You're not alarmed. There's so many people who Own i guess to talk about more as a romanticism. What's it called yeah It's basically you just want to hang out with. I mean you can be aromatic And also have that sexual attraction because it's kind of like two different spectrums with our medic. You kind of just. It's like a relationship without the romance like we don't to hold hands with them. You don't wanna kiss them. You just want to hang out in forma. Really intimate bond like emotional. So is that something that against would be considered a relationship. Because i guess there's a lot of different definitions award relationship isn't what it means to be in one in for a lot of people. It's you know having sex having Kissing one another inches engaging in those activities so if you're let's say a romantic Is there a. I guess a sort of way that you can enjoy having that relationship but just not. I guess this isn't Let me phrase that for a lot of six. Are they getting in relationships or is immortal. They stay away from it but they're still very close to it but there's never that definition of calling it a relationship you can be an aromatic relationship. It's just because the every every single like apple like is a relationship leading off to boundaries and parameters east trouble End sorry it is really tough are medically people because they feel sorry isolated because they don't stay stable. They feel very often in other in relationships around them And sorry there are. There is so much like a sexual phobia especially in the quick community as well I know a lot of friends of mine Ends there are magical a sexual but they constantly told that like all You're gay because you don't like sex or like you can't be a lesbian because you don't want a guard down on someone and it's like is. Is this kind of like all your to you. Destroy afraid or your inexperienced. Aw and it's a lot of like people down pigeonholing them into something that fits their agenda on that. She's might think yeah. No that's really interesting. I do definitely see a lot which is invalidating someone sexuality in what they identify as simply because they don't wanna engage in certain parts are considered a norm to be that sexuality. Right like if you're gay You're expected to do certain things but then i guess also kind of raises the question of what does it truly mean to be gay. Lesbian pants actuates transgender. Let's say you're a sexual. How far does the spectrum go right is it. Can you be you know a romantic but still want to have like saxon. Be completely you know participated in that. Is that a form of the spectrum. And is there a point. Where i guess what i'm asking is where the boundaries between you know you base sexual you have to meet certain criteria. Well i think a lot of it is kind of build your late like there are certainly labels in the show community that help people but like all the only one that can set the boundaries of how you feel on how you wanna be eight and certainly aren't always have to be like pigeon holed into a label like a sexual or romantic because like you what you're comfortable with And i think a lot of people. They are fees trying to figure out like their identity. Oh who they are. And sometimes he kind of slips in between the cracks and it's a little bit gray and sarah lot of people will find it really hot and pull a lot of pressure on themselves to find that perfect that fits in perfectly but sometimes it's not easy. There is lot of kind of notch is not a sexual spectrum and the spectrum are familiar. I'm still learning everything it's very loss is very beak and Like it just takes a bit of a google a bit of a kind of research and trust me. It makes it so much aco. I mean like the i found out that i would say sexual was that i got drunk at three in the morning and giggled sex bad so rural kind of just finding offloading and is no pressure to kind of get it. Pethick the fest round. I think for a lot of queer youth. What's most helpful for them when discovering who they are is kinda just no labels right. You don't need a label yourself just as actual exactly just experienced Whether you're able to Actually you don't need a late lynch's yet because when you're young it's still very confusing for a lot of us because you're figuring out who you actually are in you change so much so quickly that it gets very confusing. I think Labels can be good. And i think they're mostly useful when you're older in you kind of know what you don't like and then you're able to put a label on it instead of trying to look at the labels and see which one you fit into When you're on some. I think as sex rally is a a very underrepresented community. A lot of people don't know so what would you say is your best advice to someone. That's like feels very isolated user. You know what. I've never really felt the need for roy friend or girlfriend or i've never felt the need to have sex would be attracted to someone. How how can you do. You have any advice for someone that is in that whole honestly the a sexual community is welcoming. And if you are uninsured. Ireland takes like a couple minutes on instagram way. Confined like ceremony really helpful accounts That karst updates and on different labels in different kind of flight experiences and it's like you can kind of see yourself in imagery in that kind of like all of the unlock analysis. That has already been done for you. i've been talking recently with a produce saw in. She's coming out with a film. Cold dealer cloth me on which is groundbreaking because we have a sexual representation and The way that she found out she was a sexual was because she gave her script to have friend to her a sexual friend and her a sexual friend says This is a beautiful quibble. Tonic relationship like storyline. Like a sexual. And she's like what's that like it. It happens like life happens when you busy making other plans like e aegis comes together so beautifully. That's really interesting. That's really really nice to hear. I think it's something that a lot of us need me to here is that thanks just kind of happened in kinda relates to the message of this campaign which is all about you know why are teenagers resorting to cuck about to find someone like them into a meet up with people like them and it's a lot of the times is because they should simply are desperate for connection in love in their desperate for i guess almost also desperate figure themselves out Spirit seal normal. And do you want their friends. Italians to with a friend of doing and so you grind or an stuff. It's so exploitative. Mike mike flawlessness system wet queer youth getting preyed on an It it makes me really upset. He's just now they're they're definitely is so much of that because like you said they're desperate to feel normal. That's a big reason why grooming is such. A big issue is because a lot of queer youth are looking to these older men who are secure their sexuality their secure in their image and they're looking to them almost for guidance even if it's subconscious at date it's comforting to see that. Yeah that's why it's seen film you wanna be reassured that like what you're feeling what you're going through east slack. There's another person is live through that already. They can teach you but those people are then. Taking innocent child is in teenager and going archive can manipulate them into maheen into feeling like well. I'm going to be providing them in what i'm going to be influencing as normal and so that rooming aspect comes into play like super massively in Youth just getting exploited. Yeah i think that's also related to film right. You see if you see characters like you you see you know movies where your stories represented you. You feel that it's normal. You feel you belong and this really ties into the quick midday because there's such a lack of that a lot of people don't see themselves on there so they look for people that are that but in real life automates water grooming so Again thank you for the way that you're doing and film because i get such an important thing especially for actual nature many people thank you. And it's i think with tb in film like this. Oh my Like real characters that you can kind of draw to her like. I got really excited a couple years ago. Because i sold that Call spouse from. Riverdell was campaigning for he's character to be a sexual which is on cannon comex they just completely disregarded it and the couple he was in the shower was the merced sexualize couple and it was like a slap in the face to all the people who were campaigning. Full that representation and it slot. It plays into the fact that these grown adults are sexually exploiting teenagers in film. And it's like this. This many film directors that like they should not be betraying like sexuality in teenagers essentially grooming like. Yeah the trying to make children and teenagers feel like that is normal and that is the way it should be an sorry. That grinds is or no i am. Musk the actually had no clue that he really pushed for that. It was rough zayed. Not just rub aside but religious like well now we're gonna make back up one person So it's disappointing that i think a lotta this read. The reason there's such little representation is because the majority of people are straight male females in so they're appealing to what drives the more the most revenue and stuff so it sad for communities like ours which are a lot smaller But clearly it's it's clear that we're passionate about this and when there is that were quick to support it so hopefully in the next couple of years we see more as actual representation more romantic representations in just more queer than station in general. Yeah exactly and If you didn't pick up on it before definitely checkout luke. love me It's going to be an amazing groundbreaking film and yet i can't wait for sure that's going to be such a good watch in the. It'll be a great alternative to all. these other. Movies are sometimes very exploitive. So are they caroline joining me. Where can people find you. I'm sorry on instagram i'm click full caroline Where all my a sexual activism is and. We've also got just aces official. Which is our a sexual hub. Thought we're gonna hopefully one day turn into a tv series But yet that's that's me. Perfect well thanks so much caroline for joining me talking to me. It was great learning all about gay sex community in. I wish the best for you. And hopefully keep it up terry. Congratulations on graduating. thank you you. So that concludes this episode. Had some really great conversations. Learned so much i mean over you learn the whether you take out of it and you identify as a sexual Are you trans or you transitioning. Let me know i would love to know So that's it for this episode of swiping safely. I think you so much for listening. Hopefully you took something out of it and make sure you subscribe like to the whole thing and i'll see you in the next episode by this episode is sponsored by anger. A lot of you guys always ask us. How do you record podcast. 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Dealing With Trauma, Healing, and Systemic Queer Issues | #SwipingSafely

Teenager Therapy

1:29:26 hr | 4 months ago

Dealing With Trauma, Healing, and Systemic Queer Issues | #SwipingSafely

"A guess we have. Hey everyone welcome back therapy. I'm gail and welcomed the next episode of our swiping safely series and in this episode insides really exciting Gonna be talking to a variety of experts that are going to be breaking down on the issue about grooming and predatory behavior and trauma in recover from it. So we're going to be able to talk to these experts and get their input on. Why visit a problem. Why so many teams are resorting to these asks. The dangers of it and the best solutions and how we could help improve this as a community so our first guest will be timothy elliott who is a psychotherapist that specializes in. Lgbtq plus counseling. And so you're going to get to hear him. I But i'll let him introduce himself. Thank you gail. i'm timothy eliot. I'm a clinical social worker practicing for over a decade right outside of dc washington dc two of my specialty areas supporting the lgbt community specifically young people and the other is helping people recovering heal from trauma. I'm just so excited to be here with you today. paint you i'm excited to talk to you So as you know. This episode is part of our campaign about about the exploitation of lgbtq plus youth online communities and also trying to answer the question of how do we facilitate safer communities for queer youth And more specifically is the exploitation of lgbtq plus youth in dating apps on hookup apps and apps like those. So i guess. I would like to start first with why what you think about queer youth and and the way that the spaces they have available to explore their sexuality romantic interests and such. And if you think there's a lack of spaces that that causes a lot of youth to kind of maybe searched for more desperate means to find the comfort absolutely and so glad. We're talking about this. Because i think it is a real issue within the community myself as a queer person. I like to consider myself a youth retirement so little removed from it. But i'm just thinking about my own experiences. Plus the experiences of young people that. I'm working with right now. Adolescents is hard. It's so much going on developmentally and socially and one of the more challenging things for lgbt. Young people is to find a space for they are seen and fit them and kind of finding their tried. You know so thinking about why. So many people do go to some of these Dating habsi and networking sites is to try to find a safer place to connect. And so it's something. I see all the time with my young people Fifteen sixteen seventeen year olds. Who are logging on and technology. It's beautiful because it does allow us to connect but the downside is it's really easy to bypass some of those. You have to be eighteen requirements for different apps on an often. It's coming from a place of just looking for a space to be seen to be heard and valued and all of who they are and their identity. The downside as i think you know. And i'm sure as wire. This campaign is coming from miss that there are a lot of risks to that everything from cat fishing. And you never really know who's on the other end of it but also from a developmental standpoint young people their brains are still developing at and oftentimes They aren't able to think through some of the real safety risks are concerns around meeting up with someone online using some of these networking sites. And so i'm just glad that we're talking about it. I i think it is a real concern but it also provides something for them. It provides a space to connect which so often they don't have and communities In their families in their schools and so it's kind of out of a necessity that they turned to some of these other apps that do have some harm associated with them. Yeah i i think it's really interesting that you mentioned a lot of these people come to it out of necessity and i agree with that. And i've even heard of the statement that these hookup dating apps are sort of like a necessary evil in the community. Do you think do you think that's true. Ooh that's a that's a loaded question. I don't I'll just come out and say i don't think it's a necessary evil because i i think that there are other ways that we as a society and different communities can do better to create affirming and supportive spaces for everyone regardless of the identity that they hold. I think that that as school settings in particular We do a job to be quite honest. And i've worked in schools for about half of my career. So i feel like i can say that because i had been part of the system that in many ways has been fucked up and and really marginalized continues to marginalize an already marginalized community in so many ways. So i i think that while it makes sense why young people in particular are reaching out to the on these dating apps to find connection and community. I don't think it's a necessary evil. I think that there are other ways that we can create safer spaces for young people to be seen to be heard and to feel valued and connected and what kind of spaces with a look like i mean thinking to the pandemic. I have a lot of young people who are using discord away. Which has it's own pitfalls. I mean there's a lot of squirrel stuff out on the internet. Anyway and dischord tends to to kind of capture a lot of fat. And just what i've heard experience but it's a space where they can kind of set up their own servers and groups based on different shared identities which it's not revolving around sex. Which a lot of the dating apps it's revolving around saxon. Let's just be honest. You know. I think also communities can do a better job of of normalizing identities and. I think that we've come a long way around this but we still have a long way to go thinking again. In schools just educating teachers and administrators that all identities are welcome and are positive and are part of healthy human developments really challenging homophobic and transphobic remarks but then creating spaces where young people can come in connect together outside of it just revolving around sex. Which a lot of the dating apps. I feel like half found out. Yeah i think the issue with fact just one of the frustrating things about this is that it's such a systemic issue that is just like revolves around just society in homophobic ideas. And such that. Like because of that. You know young. People don't feel like they have they're able to express themselves and be open about who they truly aren't. They resort to apps like grinder in tender and bumble. And i think my question is. I mean what can you i think the overall goal is to encourage you know more accepting communities and were slowly inching towards that but when you think about the short term and and being at thirteen fourteen year old right now in starting high school wanting to find more people like them and they feel like they can't either because maybe they're school was very not accepting of that and maybe they don't have access to the same like gsa and networking opportunities that like other people are more progressive areas. Do what can they do to feel less alone and feel more accepted and and also have a chance to explore romantic interest in their sexuality. And things like that. Yeah i i think one resource that comes to mind. It's a national resource q. Chat which is an online platform specifically for career young people and giving them a space to connect and kind of the format they use. They have different kind of topic. Groups that run. Every day of the week and are facilitated often times by young people themselves but a safer place to come and connect with people to start building up those social networks and communities and the other piece of it. And i'm glad that you named it. I mean this is a stomach issue tomorrow. We're not going to get rid of tinder and grinder and honestly. I'm not sure if that's really the best thing kind of big picture but what we can do especially for young people's do more harm reduction and talking about all right if this is something that you are going to do. Let's talk about. How can you do it safer. And how can we just kind of talk through some of the risks around what information you're putting out there. What pictures are you sending. And when you send a message picture or anything over the internet you are letting go of some of the the rights you have to that and the control around where that goes and who sees s on if you are meeting with people. Let's talk through. How can we make it as safe as possible Because i was a teenager and adult told me you can't go meet up with someone. I was gonna go meet up with them even more probably do more frequently. You know so. I think that that harm reduction approach can do a lot of good and really help especially are are younger adolescents. Thirteen fourteen year old. start thinking through. How can they keep themselves safe. How can we empower them to make a healthier choices even if the options that are available to them aren't the best options. Yeah that's as a really interesting point about harm reduction. And it's something that i've been thinking a lot about And in this campaign specifically the two issues that we had come across is is it better to encourage people to you know. Delete them in kind of abstinence from these apps or warn them about the possible dangers and consequences of and show them how to navigate them but in a safer way and that is sort of something that i think is is a. I think a dilemma. Because in some ways trying to preach abstinence from anything is usually not very effective. And especially for this where there's like no other alternatives. So it's either go on these absent gear her or don't experience anything until you're liking your twenties monsieur higher adolescents. Have no chances to really find yourself. So what do you think is the way companies and activists and just individuals should be talking about the issue and should it be like deleted or just. Try your best to stay on it. I definitely come down on the try to stay safe and coming from the harm reduction for a couple reasons. I think one if you tell anybody not to do something. They're more likely to do it. I mean there's a psychological piece to that of defenses. Go up and any of the information on why you're telling them not to do. Oftentimes they're going in one ear and out the other right so starting right there if we're really wanting what's best for young people we've got to build a strong trusting relationship and connection and part of that is understanding that they're going to be times where people are going to do things that we as either peers or adults don't necessarily agree with and that actually a very important developmental phase for them to differentiate and come into who they are and also to learn how to manage things that they're going to be expected to do after they get through high school and whatever comes next and enter navigating the world mars an adult. So it's a good learning tool. I think the other thing is that it does open up some conversations that i know for a adults and parents that i work with can often be very uncomfortable Because dating often is related to sex and sexuality which for many adults. It's just a a not a super comfortable thing. But we've we've got to take the stigma away and say you know what i might not agree with your choices being on the south but if this is something that you're doing let's have real talk about it. Let's kind of break it down. And how can we make this a safe for you as possible Sometimes i've actually found that when young people are engaged in those conversations it opens them up to other possibilities of ways of connecting that they may not have thought about before. Because i think a lot of this comes from young people especially young people. Don't have the space to talk about the things that are coming up and to explore some of the normal developmental stages of socialization and relationships and sex and sexuality as the non-career appears do have because of some of the stigma. That's out there. So yeah i definitely come down. Not harm reduction approach and we need to as a adults and supporters individuals. Kind of look into any of the biases that we hold about some of these dating apps check ourselves through our own work so that we can actually show up and be fully present with a young person if a conversation comes up and really give them our full attention but also helpful information so that they can make safer choices. I think it was interesting that you said that. If you talk about these issues than you really are sincere and honest about your concerns you just tell them straightforward what. They should be expecting that that makes people more likely to actually maybe try to find other alternatives. So i guess that goes kind of hand in hand with preaching abstinence. And how that. Just kinda blogs people off but as soon as you you kinda just empathize with them and try to understand them. You find that there's actually young people start you know. Maybe you're right. I i understand than maybe i should look into other other alternatives to this with so much of it too is. It's just they don't have the space the literal space to kind of talk through things and not now. Not one of us are canada process and think through everything on our like none of us are on an island. We need community like we are creatures of community and connection and especially so during the the kind of developmental years of adolescent young adult butts. So much is happening. On a brain science level that we need that perspective and not sounding board To hear ourselves say at to have someone else witness it and hold it and to kind of expand. Our perspectives on. What's possible. Yeah and another thing is when it comes to career communities a lot of one. It's kind of upsetting that. This has become such a normalized part of the of being a young queer teenager that many people just see it as this is part of the experience like i was if you go through tiktok and every once in awhile video about a team sharing their experience and telling someone like don't go and grind. There is something the comments are just filled with like. Oh i've been on this. I was like thirteen like it's just normal. It's normal what you think could be the long term consequences of normalizing. This is it. Why maybe the queer community tends to be very. I guess sex driven and just sexual in nature from a very young age is it because they don't have the chances to explore their sexuality slow burn type of way and the kind of answer this world all at once i get there is a pressure cooker effect to it. Because of some of the homophobia and transphobia that is very alive and rampant in our country and in every area of our communities. Unfortunately that it doesn't give the space for sexual development to to happen out in the open. You know even just thinking of our country which is a very prudish country compared with other countries and communities around the globe that that sex already has a stigma associated with that when you have sex in ways that are different than what society sees is kind of the a hate this word but but normal or predominant or whatever the those kind of associations are it makes it even harder for young people especially to feel safe enough to talk about it or or to think. They're allowed to talk about it so yeah. I think that that's a piece of that too that pressure cooker the fact of if it was taught about in schools like our sex education is shit. And i've been on some of the the committee's here in the dc area with school districts that are the most progressive in the country around sad and clear sex ed and just educating at an early age. And it still doesn't go far enough to really normalize things at an early age at and create the space for for more healthy sexual development throughout adolescence. That's really i think. A big part of it. Yeah it's sex ed. Why do you think. I guess i really just all comes down just The way society views gay sex in how it's futures very much sinful and Grows or just abnormal. So it's unfortunate that a lot of teenagers kind there. I guess just feel like they're not valid in like they're doing something weird and disgusting and i guess maybe that's why when they're finally like exposed to that world it sorta just like an instant they have to be forced to learn everything on their own Which i think part of that means they'll go on these apps in the experiment with much older people because a lot of people that are their age really have any experience with everyone's kind of on the same boat. Do you think maybe even the lack of sex. Ed is the reason why so many young people tend to resort and maybe even hook up and have sex with people ten twenty years older than them. I think that's a contributing factor. Absolutely i think that there's also that sense of safety or community that perception that's there and unfortunately oftentimes is not an and we see time and time again that young queer people are connected with older people and it can open them up to Different levels of abuse or are now treatment unfortunately But it's this idea this contract that older queers no and they've experienced it they can kind of teach me which in some ways. It's very true. The elders in our community hold so much wisdom and we really do need to hold that in reference and learned from eggs. But at the same time i think going back to two sex ed in schools we could be doing a better job at opening up the space and and giving accurate real. Talk information. I mean even this idea of gay sex what is gay sex. It's there's no gay sacks their sex with different body parts with different types with different acts and ways of connecting and if we could talk about more from kind of dot space. I think that it will be doing a lot of good in creating the space for everybody with all sexual identities and experiences and interests to be able to navigate a bit safer. Why do you think that how would you be to youth. Resort to older men. And why has that been so normalized. I mean you see it in in movies. Like you know euphoria in call me by your name. One of the most really queer movies. And it's based around sort of predatory relationship between eighteen or older man. Why why is that. Such a large part in just so normalized in the queer community. Now i'm thinking about a couple of clients who have recently worked with and and part of their story and why they gravitated towards older men as they were navigating relationships was because of the negative experience they had with their peers specifically being homophobic transphobic and not having the space. They are and so in their mind. Nathan said this to me. They said timothy. There's just no one my age who i'm interested in. Even if there were the pool is so small. There's only like one or two people that i know that around my age I need more options. So i i think part of it is visibility. Thing part of it is a trauma thing that there have been experiences of a real negative interactions with with peers. And part of it is what we had spoken about earlier that there's this perception that if you're older not only. Are you going to have more experienced sexually and kind of helped me along but also experienced as a queer personality in the world Almost like it feels very much like a mentorship loss to an informal mentorship if you will of having someone who's been there who could guide them through Which in some ways make sense and other ways the world So different. I mean i'm mid thirties and i'm thinking about when i was going through middle and high school and kind of coming to terms and understanding who i was It's so different than what young people are going through. Right now thinking about technology we didn't have the back than thinking about understanding and communities. We've come a long way. They're still a long way to go. And so that whole idea of a have to find an older to kind of guide. Me sometimes doesn't hold as much merit And can do some harm us said that some of your clients have told you that. They're not interested in people their asian. And that's really interesting. Because i've definitely heard that same sentiment among like my own queer friends and you know i i noticed the like seek out older men and i'm like why do you do that. Why don't you just try to find people your own age and the repeating statement. They tell me that repeating answers just. I'm just not interested like everyone. My age is just to like immature and just is. I don't know i guess maybe queer youth more than anything are just looking for someone to comfort them and because people around them are young they can come for each other's they need someone experience but what are what are they need comfort from. What is what is it that trying to be comforted from now. I think part of that is the experience that gone through. You know coming out and coming into ourselves as a queer person can be traumatic and for non queer people. They aren't forced to come out to our to navigate some of those very sophisticated processes. So part of it is as a person who's come out and gone through is this person gonna be accepting. Is my family going to be accepting or am. I going to have to deal with some backlash It's verbal or physical or being excluded from friend groups or being asked inappropriate questions That can kind of mature them faster than developmentally their brains out of that makes sense and in some ways when they're connecting with peers. It's almost like oh what are you complaining about like a school assignment or what college are gonna go to. I'm here dealing with real shit of am. I gonna get kicked out of my house or not. And they don't feel like they can relate because experiences lived experiences so different based on the trauma that they've had to navigate through and so sometimes i feel that that's another reason why younger queer people will connect attached to older people. Because there's the sense of. Oh you get it in some way you you've been there and i don't need to explain myself for you. There's this automatic by which actually makes it deal safer Another issue Is why are there. So many predatory men on these apps and maybe this is just a larger thing. Something that is common but it's just more visible in the queer community. You go on apps like grinder and you'll find that people there's grown adults that are perfectly okay with hooking up with a thirteen year old a fourteen year old. And they're willing to do that. I mean if you go on the app you say like your age. Not many people will care. Why is that so common. On these apps. I think part of it is the psychology of anonymity being able to hide behind a screen. It allows you to do things that may be. You wouldn't do or lowers ambitions around that. So i think that that is a piece of just kind of all of these apps are fairly anonymous or at least to the level that you want them to be based on what pictures you share and things like that i think also is the the apple pie is are specifically For sex and i know a lot of people will say that no it's their networking and building connections. And sure i believe you. But i also know that in the experience of many of the people i've worked with. That's why they go to these apps it is. It's an exploration around sex in our people going to find me attractive and can i explore different sexual behaviors with people that that's what was created for you know so i think that's another piece. It's kind of Coming from this area where maybe that they have not had spaces to explore things and a safer or more age appropriate way again. Going back to the homophobia and transphobia in our society thing goes across stages. Like when we talk about the impact. It's not just on young people. It's on people that are in their sixties seventies and eighties and sometimes Impacting them in deeper ways. Not not once more or less but deeper ways because of the experience that was so different as they were growing up and coming into who they are understanding a piece of their identity. You think maybe is is part of the reason that a lot of older men seem to be okay and sometimes even actually actively seek out Younger people is because they themselves never got to explore their own sexuality while they were young so they missed out on like their teen years in their young years in when they were finally able to be themselves. There were a lot older so there. There's a sense of what does that feel like. What does feel like to be young and be sexually active with someone. That's also young. Absolutely i think that you're you're hitting the nail on the head with this one. It there is this. I've missed out. And how can i can reclaim some of that. That that could be a piece of it as well absolutely interesting. And i know your specialty is just treating trauma with young people in you know why they seek out risky behaviors and situations and i guess. There's a lot to unpack your. But first of all i would just like you. Just let us know why. Why do people seek out these risky behaviors. I know part of it is just out of desperation. There's no other place to do it What are the consequences of this howard. Teenagers dealing within what are the. What are they experiencing. Well with with queer teens. We know that they are impacted. Disproportionately with higher rates of depression Of negative intrusive thoughts of self harming or suicidal either impulses or behaviors of substance misuse. And just other risky behaviors. And unfortunately there's been a lot of research done around that so we have really solid numbers to look at some of the ways that it's impacting our queer young people But but the other piece of it is. How are we helping them. Connect both with safe and affirming people in communities but also to connect with himself in safe and affirming way. We've talked a lot so far. Today about the homophobia that's outside in our communities. But there is an internalized homophobia that happens just by being a human being navigating a homophobic community And that's a piece. Which isn't going to happen overnight. I mean going back to what you said about this assistance issue and it'd be nice if we could change things with a blink of an eye but it does take Really intentional introspection and finding a place where we can start talking about it safely for me and my trauma work most of the work that i do as i'm setting up the in therapy is building safe relationship with that young person because i know any of the work. We're gonna do unpacking the the homophobic experience. They've had in their schools. Or the internalized homophobia that they may experiencing any of the work around doing harm reduction when it comes to some of these apps or thinking through. What are some other safer spaces where you can connect and find your tribe of people. That work can only happen in the confines of a trusting genuine relationship. And if we don't have that the best intervention the best information again is not gonna lay out. It's going to go in one ear and out the other. So i always start with. We've gotta create a relationship. And that means i'm going to be honest with you. Sometimes i'm gonna tell you stuff that you may not agree with and that's okay. I actually really valued that. I want that here. But i'm never gonna lie to you and that's one thing. Could i do commit that in our work together. I'm gonna keep it real and keep it up front. And i want you to feel like you can ask questions even if they may be a little bit hard knowing that. I'm not going to judge you that. We all have questions and we need that safe place to be able to explore them together. Yeah for sure. A lot of this isn't turn allies homophobia and it's just a whole nother issue that it's unfortunate that there's no overnight solution and it's when talking about how you fix it it's really just small steps and it's a lot of patients when obviously a lot of young people are coming onto these apps and they're coming onto these very innocent leeann the kind of leave and they're you know maybe actually assaulted and traumatized and may be violated or just groomed and a lot of other terrible things can happen. How do you begin to heal from that because after traumatic experience many queer youth. Don't feel the same way about sex. Maybe when they try to have sex with a partner the start disassociating. They start You know getting flashbacks bad experiences and some. Maybe don't trust other people anymore. And they don't trust them to let them in in in their space and such wonderful way. So how do you begin to heal from that. Especially when you don't have access to therapists and resources and you're kind of on your. I think the first thing is you've got to focus on physical. Safety can thinking of some of the hierarchy of needs Some of the research and work of maslov We look at argue in a place where you are physically safin. Have your your basic needs met. That's gotta be priority one and if you're not how can we do some safety planning to help you get there whether it's around looking at. How can we just get you through high school to to wear. Maybe college living on your own to to do more of this work. This perhaps where you're living isn't a safe place to start exploring house I even tell that to young people who are questioning whether they should come out or not. Because they're they're afraid their parents are caregivers might kick them out or have some other negative repercussions and i'm always of the mind of we have to do what's going to be best for you and if that means keeping this private until you are more self sustaining and can meet some of your basic needs. Let's do that and at the same time. How can we connect you with other supports online. Find a communities that queer people that understand where you can be open with just to get you through that but for me it it comes back to. We've got to focus on that physical safety. I because all of that work If you try to do it too soon or too quickly. It's going to make things worse. That's what we know about. The neuroscience of trauma is that retraumatize ation and flooding can happen. So oftentimes i'll have young people who come in and say hey. This horrible thing happened to me assault. I want to work on it. And i'm like i'm here. I want to work on it as well. But you've just met me so it's not going to be safe for you to re-experience and tell me all the details about this assault. We've got to get to know each other we've gotta talk about boundaries and and how therapy works gotta talk about your experience therapy before. Are there positive experiences that really worked. Are there times where it just missed the mark in. That's information that's helpful is kind of creating the safe space together here to do that work. That's coming down the line and is is there a way to appears can help their own friends and the the you know what kind of work can kinda friend due to to make a queer friend feel better in just more comfortable and just be supportive. I think the first thing is believed that the sharon something with you Don't take that as an opportunity to enter into a debate especially if it's something about who they are on the earned experienced. They've had believed them. And i often recommend asking what would be most helpful. Do you just need someone to talk to. Do you want me to help you find resources. Connect with maybe a trusted adult who can get you a other supports or help that appear might not be able to help but believing someone in and listening to them in those moments does go a long way. I agree i really like. I really want to emphasize. Just ask them what they want. Because i think sometimes young people. Obviously you can't really blame them because they're not professionals but they tend to maybe give them arguments or debate with them and like you said. Just do everything but listening. I think it's important that you just ask them what it is. You want There's no shame in non knowing what your ones even if they're your best friend you think you should know. There's no shame in that either. It's good to. It's good to ask at Well none of us are remind readers you know. We have to ask that the only way. You're going to know for sure what the other person needs by them telling you. Yeah so those. Were all the questions that i had is there. Was there anything else. I missed that you think is important to talk about the other thing. I'll just piggyback off of this last question that you asked and when it comes to what can we do for our peers who might be going through a rough time on helping them do things that will ground them So often a high school is hectic and thinking especially about this past year where so much has changed with pandemic that takes a huge toll on our nervous system and so without are even conscious awareness around us where it faced ten around anxiety and stress and that takes toll on on our whole body and just physical being and so if there are ways to say hey can we just chill. Can we listen to music. We don't have to do anything specifically but just be together. Can we maybe go for a walk. Movement is is great. And i've had a lot of young people as things have opened up more and vaccines are coming out. That are going out and meeting up with friends just to walk around the neighborhood. Have one young person who says i go and walk for an hour. We may be say five four to each other and that's fine but it's just the fact of being physically together and walking can help bring that nervous system back into a space where it needs to be for optimal learning For any of us so that that's another thing that we can do is don't feel like if someone is sharing something hard. We've gotta jump right into action. Oftentimes we actually need to slow down and that can be a really helpful strategy for a friend who might be going through a hard time. That's really good advice. I've never like. That's the first time i've heard about something like that. So that's incredibly helpful. And i'm sure this conversation as a whole has been incredibly helpful for a lot of young people that both are wanting to understand this issue more and just had to help others and help themselves So thank you timothy for joining me. It was a it was a pleasure talking to you. Just hearing you talk about. All these issues was incredibly informative in just educational. Absolutely thank you so much again for inviting me on the show up in our next ghost is matthias. Who is a therapist that we'll be talking with those today about just Hopefully just giving you guys some great advice and wisdom on how to deal with the consequences that unfortunately arise because of the issue so with is. Do you wanna give us a quick introduction to you and what you do i. Yeah thanks. i Yeah i'm a psychotherapist in spokane washington and i just Yeah i've seen clients for the past several years and then started making some content online. And so i'm posting videos on tiktok. Instagram and Just kind. I've joined the conversation on what it looks like. She mental health and to move towards what matters even despite hardship and conflict in. Yeah so Pain and suffering is pretty diverse. There's a lot different ways. People can suffer and go through hard times. And so it's an honor to kinda just join. The conversation gets talked by can move towards meaningful even despite that. Yeah so what is the what exactly is psychotherapy. Yeah like mental health counseling and psychotherapy. Those are kinda just worse for the same thing. So whenever you see it there counselling psychotherapy so as opposed to like physical therapy to you. Work out your ankle injury de your heart is okay great so one of the biggest issues that one of the biggest consequences that teenagers you know experience while on these apps is well first. Let's dive into the reasoning. That leads people to this situation in the first place. A lot of queer people a lot of lgbtq plus teenagers go the and their entire lives not getting the same opportunities to explore their sexuality and romantic interests the same way that a straight person might and so because of those many people. Many teenagers are in search of validation. And they're they're in search to to find comfort and experience. Love so what you think. Is you know what do you think about that. I think i think that loneliness is something really pushes us towards not just like the worst parts of ourselves. But i'm kind of the worst in the world. We just become desperate when we get like cripplingly lonely and because it's a need to have that companionship to have that to be seen with people that we love and admire and want us around our lives with a human and so i think that when we feel like we're in a world look around. We're like okay. i can be myself. I can't really talk about what i'm going through. I can't connect with people freely or at least the avenues field to do that or I dunno present problems boundaries. Overcome that i become desperate become i look for any means necessary to be able to kind of that. Very cute immed- that's where people find themselves in dangerous season times the need for comfort and for having others around you. That's really interesting do you think. Why don't you think people can find this in themselves. Why i think that we are formed. Schmunity with human beings like for example. There's been lots of studies done on little infants. How they grow up and how much time they get with their caretakers. How much do they get to have a little girl right now. Which is my wife just had a kid. Three weeks ago and That we spent a lot of time to staring at her face and she's kind of looking back at us and she's pretty confused about who we are and we're getting to know who she is. There's just lots of like mirroring which just means that. She makes like really surprised face. And then i make a really surprise face. She kind of you'll crack smile. I crack a smile. She's crying and i'm attending to her in trying to comfort her. So there's like from the very beginning from the first moments that were on this planet. We are building who we are with another person. You're going who we are in the context of our family of people that we love and and as my little girl gets older she'll toddler sister she'll start to form words Form words that. I formed because just speak english election Use my vocabulary. She'll describe things in the way that i describe things and so you know when it comes to like finding that settled nece finding that inner peace or calm. That's that's not something. That's a super sport team. Sport at cincinnati reformed we regulate and discover who are in the context of people. Love us and i think. Do you think there's a certain age where you can truly understand what love is a question. I think that we mean a lot of different things. Let me say left others. There's agents where we can feel. Maybe if we don't know how to understand or talk about that loves from apparent where maybe seal the absence of that lovers like when we don't join us stirred or we don't so seen you know even toddlers with that feels like don't talk about it and maybe as we get older words to sean chests around the luxury experience with what do you think you know. I think i mean. I've always felt that when approaching love and you know i a lot of older people will tell what teenager that you don't truly know what love is and when you're young it certainly feels like you do but another thing i was considering is that i think the more love you experience the more you understand what it truly is and what love feels like. Because if you've only ever let's say you've only dated one person and you feel like you love them. Well how do you know there isn't someone will show you that you're capable of loving even more and so because of that. I think that life is definitely just a constant experience of discovery in new heights. New intensities of the same emotions you always fell which doesn't really shouldn't undermine the fact that when you're young that was what you knew and that was reality so at the time that was love to you even though it might not have been later on so what but yeah i think We also the way that we loved his kids in the way of growing up. Inform how we love and connect with other to and so when we like. I like what you're saying. You're saying all that the first romantic connection that we have somebody like tells us a lot about us and then we're not really sure like is that what many connections like you have a different connection with somebody different. Those are all questions of the austin explore within the context of the kids in. Do you think that first romantic connection you experience. Your i love. Does that shape. What you feel like love is capable of. And i mean i think in a lot of these kids. They're going into these apps not having ever experienced the intimacy of another partner and because of their first experiences someone that could be five to ten years older than them and to them. That's what they think. Love is as we think. Comfort is is it possible to overwrite that and are there certain effects that that experience will leave on an individual. It depends on that first experience. I think there's like we were saying before. There's just very basic desires needs for just companionship. To be seen to known to love for the unique parts of to shine through for those things to be accepted We desire to feel that companionship and wholeness. I think that that's that can. There's a romantic part of me. Romance connect with people that's expression in. That's that's unifying ourselves with another person to whatever degree in a way of of trying to match like okay. Who are you. Who am i in in world looking into another person as a mirror in other people for select different things back at us and so they less for example like they they see the artistic and creative parts really mired us insensitive really support our network or they they really love the intellectual vigor that we've been two conversations as we explore the world and they're like smart. I love just like ask me questions in hearing talk things interested in Maybe they on other really connect with us in a physical way feel religious warm and comforted intended to connect with them physically in southern. This is like whenever you're in a relationship. There's something reflected back you kind of your first relationship. Sometimes we think that the only parts of that matter the only parts of this that have values votes flex back What was reflected back to us in that first relationship. And and that's why i like what you're saying that aiders lot. There's a variety of protection. You can with people. We're going to have different experiences not as evil. That's really interesting. That i i think that first relationship is i. Guess what you determine is worthy of being love. Since that's why you know you. I knew and i think that's where the danger comes in in having do think there's a danger in having a bad for his experience sure i. I don't know. I think all of kennedy's peripheral first experiences like in grade school in like middle school and and that i think all of this story was like all that would tear off like you just have crush somebody or might somebody in. It wasn't reciprocated. Or they talk weird rejected or maybe went great than ended. Like inflames and someone who really cared about some of your whole world suddenly just isn't a part of your life anymore and it's hard to even think about who you are invited that young as a huge impact and i think for a lot of people a lot of teenagers on these apps may enter very filled with hope that they'll find a special someone that they'll find somebody can connect with that cares about them and where they end up. Finding is actually very different from that it is instead a world filled with predators and just predatory behavior and lot of abuse and assault and things that they could have never imagined and when they leave they leave very damaged and with a warped perception of their their own self worth their self-esteem their image. How do you even begin to overcome something like that. Know whenever you go through any form of trauma in trauma to find that oakland because everyone has a different thing that commits a trauma Buzzword traumas like pain from the past that still hanging out at the end the president. It's it's this that is imprinted itself upon you in a way you feel like you can't get out of the past like it's still kind of inside your head like you're not really here. You're not lean personal relationship. You're still back there. You're so there's a piece of you that hasn't caught up. maybe that's one way to think about it sound. It's when he learns also maybe just like an existential crisis in that you learn something new about the world that you don't really know what it is yet. Maybe didn't know the world was that unsafe. Maybe didn't a world is that fragile. And you didn't know you were that fragile. Maybe to know the people to be that malicious in so you're kind of like worked in inch infused about what exactly just happened. You know so for example like like if you got bit Kid and you're terrified of dogs now. It's because like whoa. Those things like fluffy in snuggling. I thought those things were totally safe and then like you get bit by dog it. It just showers your universe. 'cause you're like i didn't know those things dangerous like descendants of wolves like now i don't know what to think and that's that's kind of the crux of traumas that i don't know what to think anymore. I don't know where to go from here. I don't know. I'm safe for if i'm danger. Injury okay or disorganized. I'm just have crushed and so moving into a relationship. That may was the first relationship early on your kind of like texting somebody who meeting someone online. There's so many unknowns as you start to kind of form a picture what you think's going on here who do you think that person is and if they're safe and if there's something you wanna connect with if like we were saying earlier there's a mirror that they're shining parts back you the maybe like you're discovering something about yourself as severing who they are. But then there's a trivial or or something goes completely off the rails and it's not just your questioning persons questioning your own ability to assess if you're safer not understand if you're okay in that's for the come traumatizing for a lot of us. Don't have the tools understand. Like how can i tell him in a safe situation. How can i tell things are okay. How can i tell if this versus trust rate especially if it's online because like you said you know it's it's not that it's a it's an equal playing field like if you're lgbtq like you're looking at high school and it's not yet this huge pool of people to start engaging with gives not everybody is you know our you know straightforward about like who You know what the preferences ours for sitting on connect with and so it's it's it's highly sophisticated and complicated to try to connect with people in person in one of huge benefit of the internet is it can connect you all country all world that are living in experience. Just thank you But there's also a whole realm of unknown factors that can you're saying can impose a lot of risk and so having tools and being able to select identify. What a safe situation. It's not former really satisfy connection with somebody in a way not opening up new traumatize. Yeah do you. How do you you mentioned that there is. There's a time and because of a series of events that happened in the past trauma you start to fear the unknown and if you experienced abuse in a relationship in a past relationship and you're scared to go into a new one because you're scared of getting hurt. You're scared of getting betrayed assaulted or anything else. How do you begin to overcome that question. You gotta learn the lesson happen. That's that's part of it so for example. If i was in a relationship with someone cheated on me. And i didn't see it coming at all maybe cheating for a year and in it into. That's that's a crisis right because that doesn't just rewrite what you think about that person. Not right side entire year of life all these moments. That thought you're safe. You're actioning in the presence of someone on trustworthy in so you any blind to you didn't know you didn't know that they were treating on you that with somebody else in. So part of what makes stat traumatizing. Is that you don't know what situations are safe or not safe. Like your your Your smoke detector wasn't working is another way to put it like you couldn't sense that there is a there is. This was burning down. And so you gotta do is back in revile smoke detector so that you can sense for next time if you're safer not so a lot of these situations where it's something horrific like abuse or i being harmed or whether it's something like the training or even if it's something you know pretty a common like just a year and a relationship with someone that really connected with him and he thought things were going great now they are. They fall out of love became disinterested in. You don't know why not do some work and find out why in in not why is much. You gotta figure out what that person's experience was in in like because he can't read someone's mind but he has to be able to kind of tell for yourself. When can i tell when i'm in injured. What can i tell. How can i tell if. I'm really connecting with someone. They're on different page. Can i tell. If i'm in a situation that's dangerous and could lead to my heart and when you start to update that and start to gain more information to gain more insight than you can go into the next relationship confident okay. What to look for. I haven't updated smoke alarm and catch every kind of smoke but at least it can. It can catch the smoke Encountered in passing. But when you go in blind your own without any lessons learned yeah news. Now you've gone in the first place and that's of course you feel nervous young rightfielder you need to update the smoker can. Yeah so it. Is it really just a matter of learning from your past experiences. And just having the courage to. I guess the puck have the courage to answer a situation where you know your feelings might possibly get hurt. I am afraid that some people might be listening thinking like it just might not be worth it just to get hurt like that again to to risk actually opening up my heart in being open to love that a. That's more risk than it's worth. Then you have to just think like why is it scary to you like scary because i could be in a relationship Be hurt hurt again. It's like well. What about that hurt. What about the whole situation falling hartford as well heard is i'm a lonely. Al-anon rejected in By myself ok. Well forcing yourself to be by yourself. A weird solution through the fear being by yourself confusing sentence like you know it's It's like it's a solution that actually creates the problem that you're scared like if i'm scared of rejections why jackson scary because rejection leaves you alone rejection leaves you alone with with no one to have as a companion will in addition to live other things but in the sense of being alone you know avoiding people to avoid illness is not strategy. You gotta opening back up that's interesting. I think a lot of people that you know experience dramatic. The past definitely have a tend to close up and they're scared of really being hurt like that again. So that's a really good point. You made that. I guess it is the solution that a lot of these things. It's just you just have to be to pick yourself up and do it again and just learn from your mistakes and kind of as far as that goes i think for queer people in general what what they feel is a. I think it's about feeling accepted and it's about. It's about feeling validated. How do you begin to find that in yourself. Especially when you know. Maybe you haven't experienced the same things others have. How do you feel that you are worth the same or that. You have the potential to have those experiences well onto my immediately. It's not an unfamiliar circumstance. you like i. I don't know how to find any sort of positive. You know stable identity or version of myself and and like this. These reinforcer sm- identity. How can i find that in me without having to be dependent on kind of all these outside opinions in everyone's thoughts and i'm gonna find that in myself in a question that can wise. We're talking this while. Let's say that there was somebody else similar in your shoes. You're talking to in wisconsin to for advice. And let's say you sit there and they're exploring for for sinus queer identity. That feels very foreign yet. Familiar in parts of the scary. It's relationships maybe. The friends or family. That are in question about. You'll feel validated and seen by them at home or josh to condemn rejected in. There's this whole world of questions you don't know the answer to the all. Those relationships are gonna come together and instead of trying to control all that. Be anxious about that. There's a desire to become settled in hole in in your own character in your own heart so that you're not on the roller coaster of everyone else you know everyone else is. How do you have that at that center. Like what advice. Would you give them if someone told you that they were feeling worthless. Like what would you say. You'd probably come near to them compassionate right. You'd probably probably want to hug him. Probably would more close like like honestly a lot of those things become pretty clear. When it's about someone who is like your little brother your sister your little niece or cousin like it was someone younger. They came to you and they needed comfort. What would you do. How would you encourage them. And the answer becomes pretty clear that it's less about having kind of these perfect. Well frames monologues advice. It's it's more about just that warmth in compassion and that's something that we learned to give ourselves to. It's a hold of the skill an offering it to somebody else for sometimes version of us. That knows how to love. The people can teach the version of sense learning about ourselves. Yeah i agree. I think that in terms of self love. I definitely think that it's really just it. It's acceptance More than anything. It's not necessarily about being in love with every aspect of yourself but just coming to accept it I think that's also where confidence come comes from. It's really all just about accepting your flaws in that you know maybe today you look ugly but i accept that fact and i still love myself regardless and i think that's that's how i think about it. Yeah yeah and i think even even in those spaces like the idea of like okay. If i was giving advice to sort younger than i cared about. It's like someone who's really self-critical frustrate themselves. Like i feel like i look ugly. I feel like i. I don't know that i'm stupid. I feel like i i'm unlovable. It's like if you heard someone who loves the like your little niece or nephew. What would you say it service that to you like. You probably wouldn't be like yeah. You're probably right. You're pretty stupid so you wouldn't do that and then he wouldn't grill them which barade- them like. How dare you think that about yourself. Like i can't believe like you want you to be compassionate. Compassion is just this like action trying to actually job. I mean like you say that's that's that comes from. Yeah i agree i agree. I think that's really important for a lot of our listeners. because it's definitely something may struggle with I think lastly it's to to wrap this up. It's when you're when you find yourself in a desperate when you feel desperate enough that you want relationship you want to be one of your desk. Prefer that intimacy and that experience and you don't have access to a safe way to go about that. How do you stop yourself from turning to dangerous alternatives as a way of getting the validation and romantic experience question. Well i think there's two things. I could hear intelligent Hey don't get on gender and grinder in all those apps bad instincts but then you have some like. I don't know. I don't have a lot of outlets to connect with people just at my school in my friend group and and that's how complicated and there's all these people online that seem to have similar experience to me and like i could tell it they just don't do it but that's not helpful. It's not helpful advice like the question of you. Like how can you tell your. And how can you lights in entitled. We're talking before. What are the lessons line. What actually can keep you in place. You'll be okay. I think that there's like a few things. I share them. If feels relevant like that. I think might be helpful. If you're trying to come find connection with people online You know there's there's some common themes that you've been look forward so what you wanna be able to. Do you want first since its field to identify persons like what age range there are with their basic formations instead of concealing information. So that is not to be like your address Just has to be like okay. Do you have you. Do you know how old this person is. Are they in the same country like did they go to a high school like some basic information that you can verify understand that who this identity is like danger likes to hang out in secrecy. And so if you're oftentimes news online platforms you're interacting provisory interacting with avatars and and that's a place full of danger in in salt lake. You wanna actually even if the initially you kinda find people like your gaming or something in the country people in these onsite zero online getting to a place before you become sexual before you become romantic before you become anything like that. Having just basic information like that that you would know from any person walk in a grocery store like what is your image and like you know where you apps so the second would be that. There's there's elements of friendship before this elements romance like that. You can actually get to know like what are their inches further favorite music is there you know. What are they like to do when they're bored. Like some of those basic things are really helpful to knowledge if you notice. That conversation is standing really heavily romantic or sexual ride away. That's a rifle like if you're if you're trying to find connection with people emerge trying to gear in conversation towards on sexual content immediately found. His that is a signal of danger and so another one would be demonstration of respects like you're talking to mocking intimidation threats In even threats towards them like hey talk to me talk to me if you don't talk him hurt myself. If you talk to fill myself noser just signals that. You're you're dealing with somebody that might not safe not might be somebody who's ready for connection with someone aligned. Its ultra might. It's something Supportive similar around and that kind of being pulled into relationships in creep would endanger not as well and lastly another format even if you sense like high of like them trying to isolate complaint favoritism Meaning like they are trying to keep you for themselves and they don't want to you to family is they. Don't want to your family is they. Don't wanna be your friends. They don't want a game like a price they just want like you and then everything's just by yourselves like texting or streaming streaming whatever and and you just feel like this your sense of possessiveness trying to make decisions for you trying to like. Take over your choices. Maybe they're trying to give you advice. Get really mad. If you don't follow their advice is also cited as a sign that you're dealing with somebody that might not have to just the personal result aired deal to hold your choices as well as their preferences and so those are things that i think are really helpful when you try and find connections online like knowing just basic information is their h one. Is there like where they live like. being being able to have friendship elements in interest before moving into making walkmans for sexual being able to demonstrate respect not having any sort of like mocking intimidation a genuine respecting. Also looking out for excessiveness things. I tried to overrun mattress. This thanks the an green. That's really great thing. Is there anything else that you think is important that i haven't asked you about. This is a really robust foundation. You covered a lot of ground. Pretty quick i'm really thankful for the top young. Yeah it's I think this is a cool podcast in a place that safe to ask hard questions since i really monitor banking on caste system access information. This anybody's time so much. Respect thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing as well where i think the world could use more. I'm a big supply of psychotherapists than just therapy in general. So thank you. it's thomas and i'm joined by a very special guest app. Ebony day from rain omitted. You'd like to share a little bit about yourself show My name is ebony. The like i said the clinical director here at rain And i've been with rain for about seven years now. I m a licensed social worker. So i've worked in the field of really Providing services to those impacted by trauma for about fifteen years but specifically working in the realm of sexual violence in the last seven And so that is definitely you know after working so many years in other areas what i noticed was that there are so many people who are impacted by sexual violence That seeks services and a variety of places. And there's no one who's really supporting them in their healing or really providing them the space to talk about what they've experienced in so i like dove feeding and haven't left so we thought that she would be a very perfect Expert who could share some insight with us a as our campaign is focusing on grooming and one of the consequences of grooming is trauma. So i hope we can get some insight and a little bit of advice. In caveat questions answered So the first question is how does growing traumatized you sow grooming. Actually traumatizes us Because essentially it exploits their trust. You know Herbert traitors use grooming to actually connect with With us and really it's a false connection right because they're using that connection an order to either use the trust to exploit that us harm that used to manipulate and so it really impacts the use sense of trust because once they are ultimately harmed or exploited by this perpetrator. This is someone they trusted. This is someone that they were connected to and so and for them it. That trust was real. It was authentic. And so how do. I trust someone else after that. If someone that i thought cared about me thought Loved me or or whatever if i thought that of you and i trust the you how do i trust again. How do i know if the next person Motives are they trying to exploit me. Are they going to harm me. So it really impacts just that that baseline that standard of trust and you know when that happens at a young age it really impacts folks later on into their adulthood because in adulthood. You know Survivors of sexual assault or those who experienced grammy Often find it difficult to trust others. So it really impacts someone's life when they are exposed to grooming at a young age and when they Face grooming when they are groomed and exploited and their abuse. How do they get over. And we're like how can they start to better themselves. Working they seek. Help sell one way One way someone can try to move forward after experiencing grooming or exploitation abuse assault. Anything like that is they. The first thing is giving yourself permission to feel but has so often The the president was grooming. Them will try to discount. Discredit how they feel that. A lot of emotional abuse That that is connected to grow me and so it's beginning to trust yourself again and giving yourself permission to feel how you if you wanna cry. You have every right to if you're angry and sometimes when wanna break open at the next but giving yourself permission to feel and then also giving yourself permission to seek support from those you do feel like you can trust and it's not sometimes. There aren't a lot of people we think we can trust. And sometimes we have anybody you can trust. And so that's where hotlines might come into play Of course i work. I've rain and we have the national sexual assault hotline on. But there are there other heartlands depending on. You know what you've experienced that can really be a place where you can get some confidential and anonymous services. If you don't feel like you have anyone in your life that you can trust with what you've experienced in some people really don't have anyone so Or or they're too afraid and so connecting with sometimes professional or or someone. Outside of your family are france market. Might be the best first step just to explore what your options are but speaking support and giving yourself time like giving yourself time to be upset to agree to recover to sometimes have a good day and sometimes have a bad day. They give yourself the space to do that. Because it's not your fault no matter what anyone tells you no matter how. The guilt trip. So the shame. That perpetrator may quit on you. It's not your fault and you do have to give yourself the space to really be able to cope. A. into reach out for support. So you've worked with a lot of these victims on a lot of them are underage on. What is your personal approach to heal from is kind of trauma and sexual assault From me to start with is starting with self compassion on that something that always With how how survivors. That i speak with that. You know new. Have to give yourself some compassion. You did not know that this person was ultimately trying to harm. You hurt me. And so How ever it may seem your mind that this is somehow your fault. It's not and you have to be able to have some compassion and realizing that trauma whether it's sexual violence or physical violence is really process through various parts of us. So it's it's process where our emotions it's process through our mental and our thoughts and process throughout physical body and so all those pieces had their own healing in coping that they have to go through right and so there are times. Like you see here folks who've experienced sexual violence or Or those who have gone through grooming and gas lighting where they say why they rent billion hits shane intense guilt about what they experience on that bedding notional ps and. So you're going to have to heal their a place. Next place is gonna have to be healed in so that might be therapy. That might be journaling. That might be going to support. That might be That might be some type of art. Therapy only can look so many different ways depending on the person and that's one thing that are hotline works with a visitors on is how to identify. What your healing techniques will be which are healing journey can look like what knowing that there the different pieces of as your physical by. There's some folks who have like physical like headaches after they've experienced trauma or constant Stomach issues like they always feel like. There's there's somebody gives a not because that part of the trauma that they've experienced and how their body is is manifesting in presenting it and so they have to be able to find things that help with healing wet. Wet su su it drinking on warm couple teed. Is it being out in the sun is it takes a Days were don't talk to anybody. You just have a day for you like. It's really about identifying. Where are the things that speak to you. And that is what your healing can look like And it's it's not a once acids. Oh so there's no you know and there's no right way to do it There's there are people who would sound you. You need to go to therapy. You have to go to you know you have groups not like say because maybe that's not what your healing journey is going to look and so knowing that the best way you can do it is a way that speaks to you and not to someone else and also noting that they'll be good days and bad days like i said before so if you've had twelve good day one really bad day it doesn't mean that you're not healing or you regressed or you know you're doing something wrong it just means that there's going to be something days as bad days but the more you keep pushing or more you keep going. Those good days side outlets saturdays. I completely agree. I think that is so Always real A lot of people. He'll in different ways and healing is not just one linear graphics. There are curves. There's like it's just one long process. Don't think frigging yes. Impatience is a very very big component of that for dating. Apps are contributing to a lot of this Grooming a lot of this sexual violence on a lot of this form of use though. What advice would you were underage Going on dating out. Who fill their needs. I mean ask. Fire with safety has to be the priority We know that there are folks that on. He's asked who their purpose their sole reason to their own. These ads is to harm like they are looking for. Folks said they can take advantage of that they can latch you they can. Groom they can manipulate and so coming into If you're going to use dating apps being very aware and honest with yourself like hey. They're they're folks on here who don't mean me any good right they. They are seeking to hurt others. And so i need to you know if this is something i really want to do because i mean we. Don't these any absolute right now. It's a little heart and so How do i identify like what are the safest dating apps or and what does it mean to be aiding Where the process with. What are the protocols that they have in place. What are the standards How is my information protected. How how do they. You know that people who are on if they do that How how do they ensure safety. If i if i have a complaint. What do they do like really doing your homework on these dating apps that you're deciding to To to log into and then also going into If you're going to do online dating or utilize aiding at being clear on what is okay to share. What is not you know. Be able to set your boundaries way. I don't give people information. They don't need to know the city that i live in a really being able given of course different apps you know. They have requirements various requirements. And so it those requirements violator boundaries. You don't even need to to to deal with that app because we're talking about perpetrators accessing information and utilizing this information to harm others in so when i want young people to really understand i want everybody to understand. Would you date nats. You really have to be able to to say. Well what's my boundaries would do. I want known about me when am i. Okay with if someone If i went discussions am i okay with him. I'm not okay with someone rigging up on the first two times we talk to each other we chat each other and i explained that and they still do it. Got to go. You know the really being able to set boundaries we. You're you're talking with people. Hey that's not. I'm not okay with that or this is like how you know how you know. Want to communicate. I don't want to have like receiving communications after eleven pm. If this person is like sending messages all night or send pictures on themselves back. Gotta go so it's really about being able to sexual boundaries if anything i can say set your boundaries and whole from to them if someone won't respect them at honor them by their someone else out there and is really important for you to realize style you are obligated to anyone anything Like they are just some stranger online. You don't need to send nudes. You don't need to share your information if you don't want to so please Take those precautions and keep yourself safe our. Yeah exactly and the last question is what is actual At what was it looked like. I actually love their culturally Because when i think of sexual wellness i really think of any sexual activity between partners or any sexual activity wear boundaries are respected has sent is honored in. Were in a while. It's all where there is open communication with fear and so there are so many relationships. There's so many sexual experiences that can occur. That doesn't have all those pieces but for its deed wellness in for its be healthy. There has to be to be able to communicate my boundaries in you have to be able to communicate your boundaries and they'd be respected and honored and consent has to at the core of the because if everything that's happening is not consensual. We're talking about some an abusive situation. If it is not consensual we're talking about some manipulation of some sort some coercion of some sort. And that is that all is unhealthy. Net coercion can never be so really really being able to have that communication without fear of some kind of harm or damage like really being able to to express yourself Sexually and feel good about it absolutely. I completely agree Yeah so this was a very helpful in inflatable conversation when I hope that if you are listening and you Kind of resonated with what we said we said something that you could kind of take into your own L. fan Take care of yourself with And yeah do you have anything else to say. The tens and tens is right But one thing. I really want to hone in on is that you know a grooming situations They often occur win. Sometimes we may not feel As lead in our other relationships or as respected or as honored as as we may need to feel a one to feel Than someone comes in with this this false sense of this naples for us but It it is false because they don't really care in we open up and we connect you know we think after these this roaming situation or this relation i can never trust again on. I can never had healthy relationships again. i m ultimately forever damaged in some way. I just want to say that. It's all untrue managed. We all have experienced some kind of trauma in some kind of way so when not damaged and the fact that someone manipulated or lie. Coerce you an in built a false trust. That is not your fault and that you can have helped relationship. You can have love in your life. You can have support in your life. Please don't latte those instances that that situation derailed. You're thinking or pause you feel like you are unlikable because you deserve less you deserve respect and you deserve on exactly I just think that I know super difficult and painful process to move forward to new. But i think everyone deserves that chance. And they deserve to give themselves the opportunity to heating on and to grow on overly million enjoyed a episode. This interview Thank you so much for joining us. ethnic You are really terrific. And i hope that Wise really checkout her orgnization. And if you need help please reach out thank you. Well that's That's it for this episode. hopefully you enjoy it. You got to hear some really really great mathies a and timothy thank you so much again for coming on the show speaking to us And hopefully you got something out of it. Because they they said a lot of really valuable Let us know what you found the most useful We let to unless you re through those commons. anyways Yeah thank you for listening and we will see you in the next episode of swiping safely. Thank you bye. This episode is sponsored by anchor. A lot of you guys always ask. How do you record a podcast record. Your potty has and how do you put it on spotify apple podcasts. And everywhere else while the answer to that is anchor. It's why we use to upload our podcasts spotify an everywhere else that you listen to it It makes it super easy to record publish and also allows you to make money while doing it. So download the free in crap or go to anger dot. Fm to get started. Now i wanna tell you about inker but specifically inkers music plus talk feature with music plus talk you can create a music plus talk show. That has music in it right. That's so cool. So you could add any songs from spotify directly to your episodes alongside your talk segments So there's a lot of possibilities you could add a song that matches the mood of the conversation or it's just that you really like really cool. So have you got an idea for a music. Plus talk show just over two anchor. Fm slash music plus talk. That's anchor dot fm stationed music plus talk to sign up for anchor and make your own music plus talk show for free.

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TNW 87: How Deep is Your Fake

Tech News Today

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

TNW 87: How Deep is Your Fake

"Coming up on tech news weekly how to lock down your Facebook account. John Gruber says WW DC was kind of a return to form online support for LGBTQ youth the intersection of Nancy Pelosi and Mark Zuckerberg deep fakes and Dale Dougherty talks about why he had to close down maker media. All that coming up on tech news weekly. Casts you love from people you trust. This is. This is tech news weekly episode eighty seven recorded Thursday, June thirteenth twenty nineteen episode. Tuck. Newsweeklies brought to you by gazelle trusted online, marketplace for buying us devices is, visit gazelle dot com slash twit by a certified pre owned device and for slim. And by cachefly give you users, the seamless online experience. They want power your site or app with cash flies CDN and be thirty percent faster than the competition. Can learn more at Twitter dot cachefly dot com and fresh, a number one accounting software in the cloud for self employed professionals in the team's confident business decisions with ease while using fresh bells try it free for thirty days. Fresh books dot com slash t and w. Hello tuck news weekly. This is the show where every week, we talk about the people, making breaking the tech news. I'm Meghan Rooney. Right. Right. Out next week in the week after. So you might forget her, then you'll remember what you rise again. Let's do it. Yeah. Joe ben? All right. If you haven't heard by now, Facebook, isn't the greatest with all that data at has on you. But Facebook does offer a number of ways to lock down here so you can sleep, maybe a little bit easier at night. Jason Cipriani at CNN put together a handy list of all the ways you can best, secure your data on Facebook and joins us. Now walk Jason take guys. How are you doing awesome? It's great to get you back. It's been a little while it's also nice to have another Jason on the show. So I appreciate you. First of all, is the best data protection to get rid of a Facebook account entirely, or is that just what I did, or does that even stop the flow of data anyway? Well, I think it's a good step. If you really wanna get extreme with, it absolutely does not stop the flow of data all the companies still track you whether or not, you're registered registered user. So I mean yeah, if you wanna go nuclear that's a great option. But there's a lot of people like myself and everyone else in my family. That that's our main method of keeping in touch with each other keeping tabs on what's going on in each other's life as well, as you know, there's important groups on there and some people have to use it for work. I share quite a bit of stuff on there from work as well. So it's you know as much as I don't like Facebook. I'm kind of stuck with it. Yeah. It's kind of the option where most people are so people feel like that they have to be there for that reason loan. So I mean obviously, there are tons of users, right? So many people are. Keeping their account, they might still want to practice safety and security and protection of their account. Data talk a little bit about some of the ways they can do that password protection is kind of the first and of the obvious step. This is the thing that everybody does their account is password protected. But what can they do to make it even more secure in that regard? Yes. So I think the first step is getting a password manager, whether it's one password, or one of the competitors and using that to not only create a very strong and unique password. But remember it for you, and all of these absence services are able to auto fill passwords for you, so you don't have to go and copy and paste the extra built in, whether it's Android IOS windows or MAC. I is create a very strong password. I always tell people I have, like five hundred accounts in my one password vault, and I probably know two of those passwords. And so it's okay, not to know your password. The second step is to factor out indication and what that. Is basically you log in with your unique password, your hard to guess password, and then a code is sent to your device, it's a random six digit code that then is required to gain access to your account. So it's two steps to get into your account. But the main thing there is, when you pick a password manager, all of them support to pass two factor authentication codes. And so instead of setting it up to receive that code through text messaging, which may seem very convenient in reality. It's very insecure, just this week fellow writer ZD net where I also freelance and do work for had his T mobile, sim card hijacked, which thing gave the hackers access to his Twitter, g mail Facebook at all other accounts. Because they were able to take over his phone number. Whereas codes were sent so strong password to factor, thin -cation, that is used in an app and not through text messaging, I think is a great start to keep in your account secure. So a lot of people these days are sort of deleting all their past tweets on Twitter. There's like software that will let you just like get rid of that, because, you know, it might come up and there's no context and you don't really know such easier to delete. Now talk about limit past posts on Facebook. Is that the same thing? Yeah. Basically, it is to an extent. It doesn't delete everything off of your Facebook account. But I think the way we've all used social media has changed quite a bit over the years. You know, in the past ten years, what I posted on Facebook ten years ago is not what I post now and we've become more aware of a public post versus a friends only post. And so what pass tweets, does, it's one button, click that takes all of your old, public posts, and drops him down to friends, only so those. Post will also disappear from your time line and only your friends will be able to see him. Now, if you wanna go into lead them you have to do that individually, but it's also a good way of maybe not having context around opposed. But if you post a personal information years ago and you forgot all about it that can be used in social engineering attacks to gain access to your cellular account or other methods. It's a good way of taking all that off line, at least from the public domain, and one click and kidding going through my head thinking I need to do that, then I remember Facebook account anymore. So. The point is moved for me. But I should tell my wife about that she should know. I was surprised when I saw at least as relates to Twitter and definitely with Facebook. When I did have an account, how many apps I had granted access to mind, you, I had my Facebook account, you know, from the from probably two thousand seven or two somewhere around there. So a long time and over the course of that time, you just ended up granting, these things you don't think about it anymore and then go back, and you see this, huge list, and you're like holy cow. I don't even know what that company is anymore. How can people trim this number down? What are some of the side effects that they might encounter as a result? That's a great point. So Facebook actually give you a list of all the apps that have been approved to your to access your account, and it's so easy to open an APs. He signed with Facebook tap that, now that has access to your Facebook account, and whatever information is included in that, but long-term developers abandoned at some point or hackers get into those databases, those app. Who then in turn gain access to your Facebook information? I we saw with the Cambridge Analytica stuff where it wasn't necessarily someone who approved Kimber, Janelle etiquette access to that app. But, you know there were still able to collect all that data and in turn into the scandal that thankfully happened I was surprised as well. A couple years ago actually might have been right around the Cambridge stuff when I went in and looked at all the app set did have access to my Facebook account. It's in settings under. I think it's privacy and there's a list of every app that has access your account that you've approved access to your couch and you could go in and manually revoke each one, there's a select all, and you can revoke all apps at once, and then there's even one or Facebook has started expiring apps access. If you haven't used them recently or if they've had, you know, got into trouble with Facebook, they actually will expire the credentials access to your account, so you could do view those as well. But you still should go in, and revoke those. Along with absent currently have access to your information. So I use Facebook but I deleted it off my phone because I don't like the idea of it. You know knowing where I'm going at all times, and crossword thing that sort of thing is there anything I can do. Can I put it back on my phone and prevented from tracking me my location? So there's two options here. One is you can it back on your phone when you get the prompts on your phone, whether or not you wanna prove location access to Facebook is just tonight, just completely turn off. Okay. Access for Facebook and it kept track. You would all however if you like Facebook checking into places or using some of the location, where futures that Facebook has you can allow it, you could turn off location history, which would location history, what they do is create a log of everywhere. You've been every day, based on where your phone goes and Facebook provides a setting in the app, both Android. An Iowa's where you could go in and turn off location history. It's in the settings under privacy. I think there's a manager locations. Settings option and then location history, and you just need to turn that off, so you can still use below can features or at least have the app installed on your phone and not worry about them, creating a map of where you've been in. It's, it's kind of interesting, if you've you your location, history that Facebook has on you, it literally is day by day map of where your phone is gone. And, you know, if someone was to gain access to your account, they're gonna have quite a bit information for it, and that's, that's really scary, and I get a little nervous about that too, because it was pretty recently that there was the news around Google, you know, obviously, Facebook two very different companies all the much of their operations are similar, but about Google basically, giving you the option to opt out a location sharing. But then it was proven that they still get these location hooks. Is there any indication that when you opt out on this, you know, through Facebook app or an Iowa versus Android? They are actually cutting off all access in that regard. You know, not that I can see nothing in the settings or anything like. That with thirteen coming out later this year. And the developer beta already out there. There's a new feature in there that blocks bluetooth ads from scanning for bluetooth devices which can be used to create maps of where you're at you go to a restaurant the same bluetooth devices, or their over time, these companies gather all the data and I've installed. The developer beta in one of the first apps, I launched in saw the prompt for bluetooth access was Facebook. So immediately denied Facebook bluetooth access on my device. So obviously there's ways around it. And GPS location is, is just one part of that. Hopefully, Google, and as we see with apple moved out for in trying to limit access to scanning for bluetooth wifi networks. One of the reasons I love this piece that I think we get we're in the mindset, it was like, oh, it's so terrifying. I can't do anything to protect myself, so I'll do nothing. And in fact, you don't have to do nothing like there, lots of steps you can take care. That's not a question. Just a statement. Go read has. That's right. Really appreciate it. You do a lot of relate kind of walk throughs, and how to and everything for your post through seen that, so definitely encourage everyone to head on over to CNN and look up. Jason's articles they're working people follow you online, if they want to get, you know, keep up to date on what you're up to. Yeah. Sure. So my main online, presence is probably on Twitter. It's Mr. sippy, MR CIP, y very easy. I'm active on their pretty much every day. I don't really use Facebook a whole lot outside of just posted and not really monitoring what goes on there. So if you want to get in touch. Let's talk on Twitter on Jason. Thank you so much for hopping on today. We appreciate it. We'll talk to ask me was great. Absolutely. We'll talk to you again. Thank you. The dust to settle on Apple's. Big developer conference. So now, we can find out what daring fireballs John Gruber thinks all these announcements really mean. But first, this episode of tech news weekly is brought to you by gazelle, the trusted online, marketplace for buying certified pre-owned devices. You've set your creative, and your professional goals, but you have the right tools to tackle them. It's time to upgrade your devices with gazelle devices Zeller available in fair. Good and excellent condition, and all at great prices everything from iphone six through. I phoned ten, there's also a variety of Samsung galaxy phones they offer MAC books, air and pro and I Pat standard air, and I had pro each device goes through a thorough thirty point inspection devices are backed by thirty day return policy no restocking fee and free shipping. Their products are sold without a carrier contract. And they're all available for support by major carriers or unlocked financing is available on all devices with a firm can get instantly approved and pay off. Three six or twelve months just elect financing with a firm at checkout with gazelles, incredible selection of quality pre-owned devices. They're also an excellent choice for students. Don't know what to do with your old devices on to tell you check out Zell for competitive offers on your use phones, tablets, or computers. We all have that drawer of old devices. Go check it out sell, those devices, they're doing no one, good in that drawer level, up with new tech from gazelle, visit gazelle dot com slash twit to buy certified pre-owned device and get ten percent off your purchase. That's gazelle dot com slash twit. And we think L for their supports. WW 2019 nineteen is in the books and joining us to talk about it is John Gruber from daring fireball and host of the talk show. Welcome to the show. John. Meghan, so you write that for a long stretch. WW DC felt largely like an IS developer conference. But last week felt like w w DC should be what it should be an apple developer conference. Tell us what you mean by that. Well, I just think I mean I it goes back to the. History of the iphone really that, you know, even in two thousand seven when the original iphone was going to ship. There was a press release apple issued that just said, hey, we were going to ship new version of MAC, OS ten I forget what version it was twelve years ago. But hey, we pulled up a bunch of engineers. We had to put him on the iphone, it's our top priority. Mac OS ten whatever it was is going to be late. And you know, it's shipped in November instead of June. But ever since I it really has seemed like for as much money as apple has an as big a company as they are they they've been it's been difficult for them to walk into gum at the same time as the, the phrase that's been used houses of times. And I really thought last week at w this was the first deputy where it really felt like all of the major platforms specially to me MAC OS in combination with. IOS but watch OS and TV OS to there. They all moved forward in lockstep. The swift, you, I, which is to me, long-term the biggest announcement that they had last week for developers, it, it's launching it on all of these platforms at the same time you can use with you. I on the MAC I o s watch OS, TBO, S all at once. And that's just not how apple has debuted things in the last since they've become a multi-platform company usually it comes out, I for one of the platforms, usually, I o s and then in years later trickles down to the other platforms, and I really feel like they've got the ball rolling on keeping everything moving forward in lockstep. So what has been the catalyst than to drive them to be able to do that? Successfully this time if they haven't done this, you know, effectively in such a longtime why now what what has changed about now? That makes his possible. I don't know you'd have to ask, you know there. They're so secretive about what they do internally, and why they've had such a difficult time doing that. I don't know. I think part of it, though, is that swift, you, I was conceived from the get-go, as being this foundation layer for any and all platforms going forward for, for specifies in the user, interface for software. Can I think that's different? It's a catalyst was. That's a way of porting. The ipad apps to I o to MAC. But you also say that in some ways this is already depreciated talk a little bit about that. Well. So in very broad terms, starting all the way back at, at the next step era, when it was next computer company in late late eighties early nineties app kit, was the fundamental framework that you use to make apps for the next computer system. When apple acquired next and sorta reunified the company with Steve Jobs in his leadership team. They really got to things. They got a new leadership team, Steve Jobs and his trusted lieutenants, and they got the next software. And the next software revolved around advocate advocate is just basically, the fundamental framework that you use to write apps for the MAC. And it was what you used to write apps for next in aka KoKo, that's the name they gave it to, to give it a sort of consumer friendly name. When the iphone debuted in two thousand seven it didn't use app kit. It used something new called you I kit, which was basically a new version of, of app kit built for touch, and also designed by people from the next team. And from the app kit team to sort of look back at, at, at that point seven sixteen seventeen years of app kit. And said, what would we do differently? And you I kit was always very, very similar and familiar to ABC kit, developers so MAC, developers could move to s and in the early years, two thousand seven two thousand eight thousand nine. A large number of Iowa's, developers were coming from the MAC and it's sort of like a gear that turns one way, though it going from abq kit to you. I kit was very familiar and relatively easy going from the other way if you started with you, I kit and going to app kit, a lot of developers found it difficult, it was a or at least tedious and unfamiliar, because it was you I kit in some ways easier. It's sort of tough word to say with developing applications. But let's just keep it in broad terms. And so catalyst is away for you. I kit, developers people who know how to write apps fry OS to, to port their apps to the MAC without learning advocate sticking with you. I kit and hopefully doing a lot less work and maintaining one code base. And I think that's great. I think it's probably a good idea that they shipped it. But I say that it's already deprecated the year that debuts because swift UI is, I think it certainly intended to be the future of you, I programming for all of those platforms, and I think it will be I mean, there's some chance you never know how things will play out. There's some chance that developers will reject it. I, I don't see that happening though. So I feel like five years from now. There won't be many people writing new apps for either app kit, or you I kit, they're all going to be using swift, you. I whether it's for MAC or IRS. Shifting gears. A little bit one thing that I that was kind of struck by because I followed definitely Google Android side. A lot closer than I do the apple side of things among ago. Google had its developer conference Gallego with an intense, focus, our fischel intelligence, just like, hey, I was everywhere. It's basically like, hey, we have all your data. We're doing all these crazy things they I and you're gonna love it. And then apple apples event days, seemingly take a lighter approach to I feel like a couple years ago, there was more emphasis on a and we still have Siri, of course, but there's a lot lighter of touch with a from from apple right now. Why, why do you think there's such a difference in do you think that maybe this hinders the potential of what we're seeing in Siri compared to some of the competitors? What do you think? Well, I think they're a little. They're certainly late to the game, Google, you would have held up as the corporate leader in. Artificial intelligence, maybe his as far back as almost as far back as Google goes, you know, certainly from the very early days that the company. And you know, much like maps, and maps in some way, is, you know, is under that umbrella, you know, because a lot of what we wanna do. I mean, some of the war with maps is just the hard work of putting cars out on the road, driving millions, and millions of miles and taking millions and millions of pictures, and documenting. Everything some of it is just just hard work, and there's catch up to be done on that front. But a lot of what we talk about maps now is very much about a I it is about talking to your assistant and saying, here's where I wanna go. I wanna get there by public transport transmit transit or I want to drive or I wanna walk or tell me what to do. Tell me if I should walk or take transit, and, and then tell me what to do to get there. That's why I don't think apple takes it any less lightly than than Google. Now. I just think they're slightly behind because they got started later. And I think hiring John and I'm going. Butcher. His last name j g John, John. Whatever his name is the former head of Google search who's now the head of AI and machine. Learning at at apple, that's a big signal. And I they talk about it less because they talk about the experience more. But a lot of the features they're talking about our AI apple spent a lot of time in the keynote last week talking about the update to photos and they had again, I don't have his name in front of me. But they had one of the engineers on the apple photos team, using his own personal photo library. And you could tell it like his kids looked exactly like him. It wasn't one of these, like fake photo libraries shot by a professional photographer, which is a lot of times, what apple does, you know, is they'll load up demo and the photo real is shot. They may actually be photos. They are actually photo shot with an iphone, but they're shocked by a professional photographer of professional models in beautiful beaches and mountains and stuff like that. And said this guy was showing his real family photos, and the way that the Iowa. Thirteen photos app, can now organize your photo by months and years, and, and collapse. And, you know, you can go to view to see all of your photos, but it looks like they want you to default to view where it's going to skip things like screen shots. And if you have seven straight shots of a young kid blowing out the candles on a birthday cake, they're going to using a, you just sort of pick the one that they think is best and put that in the view as you scroll. So I, I just think they don't talk about it being. I think there's a lot of features, they're using that, that are driven by that. And I think we'll see more and more of that as as time goes on. It's something different than Google is using Google photos, that makes it more secure and private because everyone always talks about Google photos being, like, well, I don't wanna give my kid's, you know, face print to Google is apple doing anything different in that end. Well, the big differences that Google, apple does everything on device, and Google doesn't, but Google is moving towards that. Google is doing a lot more on device. There's an awful lot more happening on device with like. Like the pixel photos like the night-sight mode. That's you know, that's art of or machine learning. I mean, there's machine learning models that are that are allowing the nightside camera on a pixel camera to shoot in practical darkness. That's all happening on device, too. So it's not like everything Google does happens in the cloud. But Apple's difference is that they're doing everything on device? So as you mentioned, before, sometimes what apple does is just a mystery of no idea. So, for example, like, we got the ipads last year, that had the USB port, but you couldn't you couldn't actually use it. There was no USB drive support. But then, then suddenly there was in the keynote, and use folk to Craig federa ghee, and Greg joswiak about white took so long. And what did they say? I think all my show their answer wasn't as, as clear as what I've heard and other background briefings with, with folks from apple and basically, I think the answer is as often as the case, it's multi variant and there's there's just multiple variables involved and saying it was one thing is oversimplifying it. So I think on a philosophical level apple was holding out for a future where even a pro I ipad might not need USB drive access that everything, you know, that as the years go on. And we quickly turn to cloud base storage that, that cloud base storage would be enough on a philosophical level. And, and it is cleaner in theory of everything we're fast enough, and we always had fast enough network connections. It certainly is a clean way to think about things, but in practice. Sometimes you need to drive. It's just the. It's just the truth. You know last week. I did that live episode my show. I wanted to get it posted to YouTube the day after my video team worked really hard to get it edited. And there we are the day, after it's four o'clock. One of the guys has to catch a flight. It's a thirteen gigabyte file. How am I gonna how am I going to get this to YouTube? An ST card, right? They gave me an ST card now. I have thirteen gigabyte file on an ST card. I go to somewhere where there was fast internet and get it uploaded. There's, there's no way that would work in an all cloud environment. Right. Sometimes you need an ST card a thirteen gigabyte file that I wanted to post to YouTube if we had to go through the cloud, and they had put it somewhere wait for it like on hotel WI fi. And then I have to download it. It's just ridiculous. When they have they just give it to me. So why did it takes a long for the together? I think part of it was philisophical that they thought maybe they could wait it out. And I think part of it was technical where where these things really are a, a, a vector force, Curie problems. I mean you can get there's, there's a history of, of viruses, and security problems, even get by using a an infected USB stick, or an ST card. And my understanding is that for the ipad alas the paddle has thirteen apple is using a brand new USB stack and the software side they didn't. It's not just like oh copy and paste, the USB support from MAC and just stick it on the IRS call it a day. Now, when you put a USB drive in the USB port of an ipad pro it'll just show up in files up. They re implemented their USB stack from from scratch to keep it affectively sandbox so that no matter what happens, even if you have a, an ST card that has some sort of Maur something wants to auto launch when it's inserted it's all sandbox when it comes up. So I think part of it was was a technical issue where you just had to wait for people to get around to, to writing USB ST card support in a way that they felt fits with the ipads, much tighter security model than what we have on a MAC. John Gerber is the host of the excellent, apple podcasts, the talk show and his sight is daring, fireball dot net. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me, a pleasure. Talking with you, John talk to you soon. Thank you. All right up next how LGBTQ youth can find support online. But I the Cepsa tech news weekly is brought to you by cachefly. You can give your users, the seamless online experience that they want by powering your site or app with cash Licey D. And it'll be thirty percent faster than the competition when you do that. 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That's twit dot cachefly dot com, and we thank cash lie for their support poll of over thirty four thousand young people in two thousand eighteen by the nonprofit Trevor project says that nearly half of kids between the ages of thirteen and twenty four end in his LGBTQ, t have seriously considered suicide and seventy six percent of those kids say they prefer to get hope online via text chat, or instant message. Joining us to talk about this city, Emily Dreyfuss senior writer at wired, welcome the show, Emily, thank you so much for having me. Mega jason. Good to have you back. You write that despite the fact that acceptance for queer people is on the rise. It's still very difficult for kids to find safe online spaces to express who they really are. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. It's not just online spaces. This poll really revealed that as much as we have made huge strides in its pride month right now. So we're celebrating the ways in which people have gained acceptance and rights, since the stonewall riots, this survey really also revealed that there is so much more work to do. And it looked at thirty four thousand young people between ages of thirteen and twenty four and it found that vast majorities of them are facing to still discrimination pressure from their families, and, and they are deeply sad hopeless and many of them have considered aside. Many of them have attempted suicide. So it's, it's I think the most important thing. About this survey is, is that it's a reminder that there's just so much more work to do. I think it's also a reminder of just what's online, and we talk about all the toxic stuff. That's online. I mean we live in, you know, in a bubble the bay area's know mccown at three teenagers I'm always like, you know you love who you love, and we love you. But then I don't exactly know what they're looking at online. They, they might be saying something completely different, especially now that in, because the, you know, the, the entire web is not so. No mccown and also just the whole political culture, so talk about that. Yeah. So you know there's this week and last week, we've seen YouTube come under fire for the way that it's not protecting the gay community and queer people online, all of the major platforms have taken heat in the past months and years for the ways in which they do not protect people from harassment. And when we're talking about the queer community algae. V q community in particular, you know, some of the major platforms have a real problem with taking down content that actually would be helpful to people because like transition videos or things that may be showed nudity, or are taken out of context may seem inappropriate to the platform moderators, who are not steeped in queer culture, but are actually attempts for people to find community online. And one thing that was really striking about this survey was that over eighty percent of the three or four thousand people polled said that finding a community online that would be specifically safe for LGBTQ. Use is incredibly important part of that is because a space like that, whether it's a social network platform created just for them or whether it's a private Facebook group that they've created or tumbler. Page that they've created for themselves to make knee communities out of mainstream communities is they actually understand the context and needs of LGBTQ individuals specifically match really really important in order to provide that kind of community now, you right, help for many of the kids, LGBTQ, specific specifically kids, they prefer digital means of communication in times of need times of stress. Our just curiosity talk about the, the quality of that digital connection. And whether like, how that compares to like an actual physical experience person to person experience versus getting a digitally. Do they receive the same quality of information of care that, that they're looking for? The Trevor project which operates crisis hotline that is available twenty four hours a day for anyone who wants to talk or feeling suicide or is feeling hopeless has always been something that you could call. But we've seen over the past five ten years, this impulse especially among young people to not pick up the phone necessarily make a phone call. But to actually text, this is the means in which they're living their lives and into the Trevor project has. Met them where they are. And now has a crisis text line, and you can also I n then instant message done, and the, the quality to, to answer your question, it's exactly the same these kids will still be speaking to the exact same person. They would have reached via voice, but just now they're talking on chat. And I think, you know, young people today are really comfortable, speaking in digital textual mediums. And, and I think we've seen time and again that those interactions can be really very very meaningful and end there's something I think that we can understand that is know a mediated safe-space as well about it being digital over text. It's like a little bit less daunting and one of the, it's really hard to reach out in a time of crisis. The maybe the hardest thing to do is actually pick up the phone and attempt to get help. And if people feel more. Doing that in text rather than having to have the vulnerability of using their voice than I think it's really, it's really vital and important that we that we meet them meet their needs. What about health information? I know that, you know, we've all we all know that there are like, anti choice organization, sort of masquerading as a abortion clinic. Let's say just to bring people in the same thing happening with the transition clinics like are there, people out there who want to convince someone that they're not transgender, but then offering services trans health services. So I, I haven't specifically looked into that in my reporting, but through my just reading as a consumer, I, I have read about places that, you know, frame their message to gay or or trans curious youth in a way that is intentionally confusing and studies have also shown that LGBTQ and trans. In particular, non binary news. Really do go online for information about their health about their transitions their bodies more than six gendered and maybe heterosexual youth do. And so they're the, you know, the internet is almost like honeypot LGBTQ youth to find information because they're so hungry for it. They may be don't know someone in their life that they feel comfortable asking, and so it, absolutely represents an opportunity for people with an agenda to prey upon them. If they present that information at as, as something other than what it is end this Trevor project survey really found that a majority of LGBTQ youth, not just transgender, but, you know, any kind anywhere along the spectrum sexual orientation as well. Have had people in their lives attempt to dissuade them from being, they are a whether that was apparent that they were coming out. To, whether it was a friend or a medical professional, or someone who is actively engaged in conversion therapy taps now talk a little bit about Trevor space, because it seems to be kind of, you know, obviously, it's a part of the project what, what is it? How can people get involved? So Trevor face is a, a social media network that the Trevor project runs they've done. So for years. I don't exactly remember when it started, but it's, it's, it's not brand new, but in the past year, they've been putting a lot of effort into making sure people know about it, and making it be a robust community. The idea of this space is specifically a social network to connect with other LGBTQ us and crucially, it is moderated. Actively by Trent Trevor project employees. And that's really important because they they're saying, we want this to be a an actual harassment free zone. We do not want anyone feeling uncomfortable and, and they don't want the onus of moderation to be on the users, which is true in so many other parts of the open web where the platforms will say, hey, you know, if you if you don't like the content up to users to flag it and once it's flag, we'll take it down Trevor spaces, not like that. They are someone monitoring it. Actively and will. Take get anyone off the site where the content removed from the site if it is in any way discriminatory and it's you can anyone can join it. It's free. It's Trevor space dot com. Google it. You can get there. And definitely send it to a youth that, you know, if you're an adult that, you know, you feel like this this'll be a nice place if they don't wanna talk to you. They might want to be part of this. Yeah. Emily drive is senior writer at wired covering technology's impact on society. She's also very funny on Twitter at Emily griffis. Thank you so much for joining us. So the coal from vices here to talk about that Dr Mark Zuckerberg video making the rounds this week. But first, this episode of tech news weekly is brought to you by fresh books. The number one accounting software that makes dealing with your business finances, painless. 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Samantha. It's great to have you for joining us. So perhaps it actually makes more sense to begin with the Nancy Pelosi video that hit a few weeks back, which isn't necessarily a deep fake. But it's kind of a long the same vein, right? Her audio artificially, slowed made her sound drunk that was ultimately posted to Facebook. What, what was the call that was made around whether that video in particular state up or or was taken down? And how that relates to the video. Sure. Yeah. Video was really interesting because it definitely wasn't he pick. There was no high-tech, augured make editing happening there. It was just slowed down to make our junk, like you said, so that one got millions of us shared thousands of times. It's red really quickly and basically Facebook chose to keep it up. They said that they were going to de prioritize it, which basically means they're going to push it down through people. Feed. It doesn't pop up on your feet organically, so much, and it would put it alongside third party back checker information, the face would be for product, every have said that the company's thinks it's important to make their own choices for what to believe and to give them all the information that they need to make those decisions and type of themselves. So the video up, it's just got some this resign now. Now, of course, we have the leader of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg pronouncing some, let's say sinister things in fake video post on Instagram this one definitely falls in line of what a deep fake, actually is talk a little bit about how this video came to be. Says that one was part of an art, project, actually out of the UK art project looks at how companies use our data and data privacy basically, so an artist partnered with researchers and people who actually make fakes accompanying called Channy, and they made the videos using a proprietary over them that is essentially a depict the way that they explained it to me, but it's trained on twenty one seconds, I believe of a video of Mark from two thousand seventeen where he's giving that address about Russian election, Russian election meddling and yeah, it's mashed up with basically someone putting his face to say, make it look like he's saying something that he never did he's saying that he's got control of. You know, all these people's stolen data. So that. The basics on how that came to be. It only took twenty one seconds of original video create this fake of Mark with bird, which is pretty pretty interesting. So where does it stand? Now, is it still up on Instagram? Did did Facebook take it down. What's the situation with this video now? Told us that they were going to do the same stance with this as they did with the video, and they plan to do with all misinformation going forward on the platforms. Basically, they have a third party fact checkers, something that will market as all the time that it is all, and then filter it through people see prop up so much, basically. The prioritizing it so. Yeah, it's still up. They this is their stance on this information now. So that's what they have to stick to the roadmap going forward, so regarding the Luxembourg video, it's super obvious to me, and I imagine a lot of people that the voice is not his, it's kind of it's disconcerting, what he watches, like there's some qualities, but it's obviously someone doing a person, and also that, you know, you can spot the digital artifact around the mouth a little bit things seem smear. At times. But would you say like a deep deep fake of this caliber is enough to, to fool, or trick, a lot of people like and could that mean that the damage would already be done anyways, even if it's pretty obvious to some of the totally fake? I mean, I think yet, you're definitely right that it doesn't look completely real. If you're watching those things. But if you think about the way people consume media. It's on a phone. The images are small grainy a lot of the times quality is not good. So you have those artifacts in a video, and you can't really tell like how equality is this video of someone the voices definitely not him? Obviously. I think it sounds like Bill Nye a little bit. Extreme and they, but, you know, they had a voice actor kind of mimic, the way the speaks so that they could done. You've got to make the and resulting video better and they can match it to video of that speaker. So, yeah, I think just to kinda got your question, I think it would trickle out of people if it was out of context from, you know, a saying, this is not real big just came upon your feet organically. It might raise some flags, because the wouldn't say something like I'm in control of Celinda, that would be as but I think just taking it as video and itself. It is really easy for these things, especially fast. And then once the checking in the verification goes through that takes, you know, minutes to Dave, maybe, and that's the damage already done like it's already spread people believe they. Leave. It's out of your control at that point. So I think it's possible there's already a bias built in right? Like we believe what we wanna believe. I mean it's happened to me, a lot of times, like I'll see something on Twitter that, you know, is not, not conservative. It's very liberal. And I'll think, oh, yeah, of course, I, I believe that right away. Because it's kind of what I want to believe, and then you find out that it's false. Exactly. I think that's what we saw with pussy video, if you want to believe you don't like a new to video of her foreigners beach, or, you know, acting on stage, you know, you might hit the share button immediately. And this Larry us, everybody look, I think that these things confirm vices, once we see them, and that's the real dangerous takes. No, we're starting to see some some movement in, you know, in the US government, at least around the potential of the face, and potentially the damage. Of course. Everybody, you know what we keep hearing is deep fakes are gonna come along. And they're gonna make, you know, the, the twenty twenty election, a lot more challenging, or, you know, so we're our awareness is raising a little bit around us, and there's the deep fake Bill. That's going through right now are what? What can you tell us about that? Are you aware of the deep fake Bill? Do you think it's adequate? What do you think? Yeah. I mean that Bill or do they believe this week creek me from Ron, but it basically would force creators of take to watermark, their creations. Wis close that it fake or maybe in some way and put a watermark on a video that would tip off. Researchers or friends analysts to the Saint fake. So I think that's a really good start. Having these conversations is a good start. Having the conversation we're having now is productive. I think any time we can talk about nealer the and vital indications of things being Martha's fake when they're actually true. And what is truth is all productive conversation. So, yeah, I think that Bill will be really interesting to see the, the repercussions of that support behind that. Yeah. But I'm not sure beyond that would have to see. And so I mean is there I'm always a little bit reg registered to say, like regulation is the answer because I'm afraid that the people making the regulation, don't know as much about the technology as, as they need to. I mean, does that I know that this is part of the section to thirty of the communication decency, act is what I think that they're trying to change. Do you worry at all that regulation might go too far? Yeah. I mean, that's definitely concerned that quite a few people have raised who are much more well steady on this than I am. But just in my own experience and listening to them. I think that, that would put a lot of power in government, hands decide what shoe and what's not, and not definitely scary to me. And I think it should be concerning anyone who cares about this stuff. But yeah, it's, it's definitely not the answer to legislate, a lot of I would rather see legislation around like I said, like media literacy, or ownership of bodily atonomy, or this all started from videos of women in porn that were used against their consent. I'd love to see laws around revenge porn before I saw around winning watermarks on video definitely not the only answer, but it's a start. Not only that, like, when I hear from the Bill, you know, we require you to put a watermark on your thing that you're putting out there to try and trick people or whatever the case may be. I mean, obviously there, the onus would fall on the people making the tool, so Dobie, for example, has, you know, hooks and their software that enable this, and they're working on that more. I could see obviously a company like adobe being like okay, great, we'll build a watermark in here so that it's easily identified. But there are a lot of people out there who have no interest in making their, their fake video easily identifiable to anyone. That's the point. So who knows how successful that will be, but overall, this is a really fascinating kind of development, that's happening in the world of technology. And really appreciate you taking time out of your day to talk to us about as ethical is with vice vice dot com, working people follow you online, if they wanna follow your work. Twitter at an legal or checkout aboard on by right on thank you against Fanta. We'll talk to Sheehan. And finally, you thought we were done with interviews because usually we do three to four. We've got a fifth. This is like a super size episode. I actually had the opportunity to chat with Dale Dougherty yesterday. He's the man behind maker media, and well, there's some news around this. So why don't you go ahead and check out my interview with Dale? Now, some of you may heard the news over the weekend. I know I did it made me sad maker media the company behind make magazine and maker faire is closing down. Joining me to talk about this news. As Dale Dougherty founder and CEO of maker, media, del welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for having me. It's really great to get you here. Although, like I said, I'm sad that it's under these circumstances because maker, faire, make magazine everything you guys are doing is so and have for the last, what fifteen years super inspirational talk a little bit about what, what has transpired to lead to the closing down of the operations as they are now. Yeah, well, I think. You know. You know, it's kind of a business failure in a way. It's a sculptural or or sorry. You know, it's, it's, it's, you know, the structure of the business doesn't work really well for what we're trying to do. And I've been trying to patch it for a couple years, and keep it going. And it just seemed time to say, well, this just isn't working, it's really about, you know, I think to, to differentiate Sunday when I told the team is our mission is wonderful our businesses and so great, you know, we have we've struggled and we sometimes just have to face that. That's not gonna get any better in. This was the last option. We had I don't think it's the end. We'll talk about that in a minute. But it is a transformation or restructuring that perhaps can put us in a better way. Ultimately to do what we want to do all along. Sure. So. I mean, one of the obvious you know, the things that people can really point to is the success, at least the seeming success of all these maker fairs that are happening around the world from outside, looking in at looks like it's been an enormous success. But what has changed over the years? What's so challenging about that model? Well, I think that, you know that when we talk about maker, faire, there are two that we produce and, and New York in San Francisco. And then there's a network that we license out their independently produced and they'll those will continue, they are doing well, the while maybe a little bit of a morale issued with some people, I think though, the pick it up and can keep going the issue with particular and they are successful. We just did three weeks ago was, unfortunately, had a lot of rain, people still came out and people love the event and, and I just, you know, sometimes you doubt yourself, but when I was in the midst of all those people there, and I said, this works, you know, people love it, and it's important that we are able to do it. But you know, we've had a diminishment in, in corporate sponsorship, which underwrites the event, you know, we have. Sponsors. And we have we sell tickets and those kind of two pieces of revenue and, and behind it, it's, it's about taking the risk to do it. You don't know how many people are gonna show up, you don't know, whether it's going to rain, you don't know all these other things. And I think when we had more corporate sponsorship, it provided a bit of a buffer, you know. So increasingly it was falling on me to take all the risk in doing the event, and that just doesn't work kind of. Personally got over extended with it. And, and so, you know, the I have to step back and say, is there a different way of doing it different way of looking at it. It's not the problem with the event. It's the problem of, you know, the financial risk in doing these events. So it's just kind of import to separate those out a little bit the uncertainty of knowing you're going to get on the other end. But, but as you said, the licensing of some of these events that's still going to happen. Yeah. I, I will, I mean the company's going through this restructuring process. It'll be, you know, I hope I am trying to go to get the assets of the company as founder in to be able to make those kind of decisions in the future should someone else, get them. They might not do what I would do with them in a bit of a struggle to get to the next phase here, but I'm pretty confident of that. I can get there. But then we're gonna have to ask the community to support it in ways that they have in. The past. But I'll tell you the whole process, going to zip a great sadness, for me, but there's also great happiness hearing from people of what this is meant to them. How many years they've been involved with how it's kinda help them? Get where they wanted to be in life that, you know, I don't know all the all the ways it's intersected with people, whether it's the event or the magazine, but it's really good to hear from people. Tell me this, this makes a difference. This help create a world that I became part of. Absolutely. So you're not in this in this scenario, you're not filing for bankruptcy necessarily. You're moving toward a possible transition to nonprofit, which when I first heard this news that was the thought that, that really came to mind, you know, maybe this would work in a better capacity as on profit. But what does that what does that look like how does that transition happen? And does that how, how does that affect or change what the public sees from the outside looking? Well, I, I don't think it would change at all from the public in and, you know, most people thought we were nonprofit I to be honest. But I you know, nonprofits has strong missions and, and then begged for funding. I, I don't I don't wanna be that kind of nonprofit though. You know, I see us in some ways like an association, you know where we have members and we do things that the members value, and they have a voice in that. And that's, that's the kind of nonprofit. I'm thinking of in may be something else. I'm looking to ops and some other structures that might actually reflect the kind of community and Konami that we want to build in this world. And that gets me excited because I think. One of the issues is, how do you keep things going that the market doesn't necessarily value, you know that, you know, education's one of them Emag print magazines and other one and some degree affair, that is more about learning an exploration creativity than it is about a trade show with, you know, that's the difference that I'm trying to right now, trying to figure out how to protect the what we've created and what it means. And then I'm trying to figure out how sustain it. So that future generations can benefit. So, so that's kind of the primary goals in thinking about what's the new structure going forward? Okay. Okay. Now, I read that you mentioned interview, a few days ago that the closure of your company is a sign of the changing times in San Francisco. I think I have a sense of what you mean by this. But I'm curious to get your take. What do you mean by that? Exactly. Well, I you know, I think make has been part at maker, faire particulars been part of a kind of counter cultural effort to almost connected to the sixties connected to a lot of. You know. Up that we're not stream things, and, and, and I think, you know, San Francisco's become increasingly about money, money and status. And I think in oh that's not. That's not culture. Right. That's just something else, and, and there has to be a place in our heart, if not in our city for this kind of creative communities exploring and expressing themselves and, you know, maybe we go away but. You know, maybe we don't but I'd say, you know, people should ask, what kind of community, do you want to support, what devalue, there are certainly companies here making billions of dollars and I'm not sure they're creating an economy, that's has participatory as we like that benefits, more and more people. And that really is my goal of the maker movement, that there are ways for you to learn to get involved to, to whether starting a business, or solving, an important social issue, you know, helping others learn how to do things, you know that this benefits, lots of people and not just a few people on sandhill, so, you know, how does how, how do we ensure those things survive? How do we ensure that they in fact thrive? So that's kind of all, I mean by it. I mean it's not San Francisco. Celebrate. Place. But it's you know, sometimes I went to visit a big company a couple of weeks ago that heard that we're having troubles on, and it's one of those companies with billions of people, but they had this maker space in the a first floor took up the first floor. It was best hardware, you could ever imagine. And the people there were makers and yes, they work in this big owners say, but they love what they're doing. They're prototyping doing hardware and, you know. You know, sometimes loose sight of that. And you know that those are the people creating value, those are the people who are productive nasc- themselves as part of this movement. The company may not see that connection. But there are people within these companies that do and I'm proud to that. They're part of what we do. Yeah, yeah. And you've got a lot to be proud of because of an awesome legacy. You've pulled down you've enlivened and lit, lit a spark in people and help to kind of create like when you talk about the maker movement, I feel like maker media, and the work that you've done with maker, faire make magazine is such a huge part of that movement. And that's something super proud of what about what about schools like do think. Oh, that's actually, if there's a legacy an idol, like think of, you know, this in the past, but, you know, we have the I think the most important impact maker movement, as had is, is coming in through the side door into schools. Sure. Hand. You know, teachers bring in students, bringing in and really changing the nature of learning in school. You know, I, I have to say our federal governments and state governments administrations there basically clueless. And they don't really seem to care about what real learning looks like, but I know what it is. I see it and I've tried to spread it to bringing maker spaces giving kids the opportunity to explore and have ideas and develop those ideas. And you know, it's I believe that, you know, to the degree that America's leader in technology. It's because people often on their own, you know, found ways. To learn this way, you know, and maybe a parent supported or someone else it wasn't, you know, very often in schools. But I think if we want more people to participate in tech economy, we better change, our educational system so that they have the opportunity to use tools. Learn how to use them effectively, and most importantly, exercise, that creative mind. So it becomes something really good. Yeah. A lot of opportunity, there, speaking of opportunity, how can people who want to be a part of helping out on this greater mission as, as you guys kind of move into this next direction? Whatever the, you know, the future has in store for you. Is there a way that people that are super like driven an interested, and want to be involved as their way that they can help you directly? They can reach out to me. I'm Dale Dougherty at g mail dot com. I think you know next week or so I hope we can, you know, set up something new that will allow people to become members of this new organization that will support maker fairs make make media, and we're gonna need people to show show support for that. So if people have other kinds of ideas, you know, you know, they can reach me, but right now I have to ensure that the financial support to move forward. And, and if people are willing to talk to me about that, you know, I'd be happy to tenor Tatum, headed to the nation makers this. Friday, Saturday, Sunday in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I'll see a lot of people from the community. They're awesome. Well dale. Maker media has in, you know, in my opinion success. At it wake people up like I said, and being bringing people into this movements you've got to be proud of. I'm really happy that you had had a moment to hop on the show and, and Tom Cruise today del Dougherty maker media dot com, where you can go to find all of this work, where people follow you actually make seen dot com. Seic dot co her of the two main. Okay. It's you. Okay. There we go. All right. How about you wanna find you on Twitter? I'm Dale PD? But I've kind of been off social media out. I understand I just kinda have myself. All right. Thank you so much. Best of luck. Awesome interview with Dale really appreciate that. He was able to hop on. And we missed you Megan. Yes. Being. And so we've issue at I'm sorry, equally at the same time. You can see it because I live tweeted it which I is everyone wants to see that. Yeah. You were there Floyd three hours south out, right? Yeah. The world of the DMV, fills tech news weekly records, live every Thursday at eleven am Pacific twit dot TV slash live and be part of the show by emailing us. We hope that you do T and W at twit dot TV and subscribe to our show at dot TV slash team w and if you're already subscribed in you like what you hear and you think someone else, you know, might also like to hear or watch what we do some link you know we, we love to, to spread the words word of mouth is the best way to spread the word about our show. And if you want to tweet me, I'm mega Maroney at Jason. How thanks everyone helps out in here? We got a Burke, John John Jeff so many Jays. And then a b what are you doing? Burke runs this place. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week. I'll see next week makings out scoring rice two weeks. So you got me for the next two weeks on techniques weekly by everybody.

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