20 Episode results for "Leonardo"

Who Would Win Buffy vs. Leonardo

#WhoWouldWin

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Who Would Win Buffy vs. Leonardo

"Slayers have to go to all manner of locations in their quest to destroy mystical evil. It was well below. Oh ground that buffy summers found herself on this day. She was prepared for the unexpected at every turn but the faint sound seemed very out of place was that that was that a pizza party. She turned a corner to track the noise and stumbled into the layer of the teenage. Mutant ninja turtles currently occupied applied by one leonardo leo without any time to think about the predicament grabs his sword that prepares to repel the intruder to his domain sleigh master general versus the blue students. It's sunny dale girl versus the radical uis spawn and loppy versus leonardo toned episode of who would win a show that completely ignores anything important happening in the world and instead focuses on a fictional battle between two characters from the world of comic sci fi and fantasy. I'm your host james gab sie and as always i'm joined by my co host race kanus ray. Today's battle is really intriguing. You'll really fascinating one when we put this together and this sometimes you come up with battles. Sometimes i come up with battles but often there's a back and fourth around it. This is very much a fifty fifty down the middle. You wanted to do leonardo. I wanted to do buffy. We said let's put them together here. We are almost feel bad putting these two characters together researching you know i got. I know a lot more about leonardo than it did about buffy the vampire slayer but then when i started doing my research she's an amazing character. Fantastic really really good has so much going for a series very very fun to watch. I'm kind of torn. I know i'm represent leonardo but i gotta tell you bobby. The vampire slayer is pretty awesome and i hope you feel terrible about opposing buffy the vampire slayer because when you deserve it and two it might make a little weakness in your argument because you may be psychologically. Don't wanna win this battle and that allow me to just drive it home well. Here's the thing i kind of thought what about this and how would buffy feel about being represented by race. Decanes should be a big fan. I have to believe i gotta think she she wouldn't. Luckily we have someone on the podcast today as a judge. It's someone who i hope so because we have. We need a judge to do this. Show the genius canes but this is someone who knows ray really really well. I'm a big fan of hers. Let me just introduce. This is the one the only gina little one of the amazing cast members of the cast of knowing is half the podcast gina. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for having me. We know you from your era very compensator. You've written for murphy brown correct show and your new show unicorn on c._b._s. Is coming out very soon to is that correct yes. That's correct september twenty sixth very nice okay and i don't oh no you felt your the right around thirty thursday september twenty six. I feel like that's what comes out. We're g._m. Deeply raven owns a television. No i just assume that the inside of raise head is like one of those little monkeys banging a drum. All the time in any external noise is filtered out. I believe there are many big like cat scans went public so i'm a little unnerved right now jeanette more importantly than than raise mental health <hes>. Let's talk about the somethings that yeah. I know i talk about something. That's really really impressive even more impressive in my opinion then you're impressive <hes> writing resume. You wrote a graphic novel. Oh i did and and can you tell us about it. I know it's called babe. Squad looks amazing tells about babe squad and where people can find it. Babe squad is a teenage mutant. Ninja turtles was crossed with sex and the city. It sounds like an obvious matched by the way yeah yeah the the classic mash up a no one ever knew they wanted are you. Are you like nervous because that that mashups been done so many times before up to this. We had to find a brand new. Take on it because it's well trod territory it's like are you carry early nardo. Ask themselves that every day yeah jokes on you because they serve the same purpose in their friend groups the real. You should be asking yourself. Are you a leonardo or are you a maranda. Oh i'm definitely miranda yeah i would agree with that yeah through it's about four struggling supermodels who get thrown from the highest cat that walking into a vat of radioactive furs and they when they wake up they are mutated and become half mutant half hot supermodel crimefighters. I am fighters aided by the help of their sense. Say carol who's an old drug addict alcoholic ex model who is also have toilet on the bottom what the hair there you go. Supermodel fused with toilet supermodel. Thee's a toy. That's the unique take. She's an alcoholic comes in handy because she can frequently throw up into her own bowl so this is clearly a you know a kids comic book named for young twins. Don't don't don't buy it it for little kids can buy it on amazon on target dot com barnes and noble dot com. It's like there's a slew of other sites that i'm forgetting some that i've never heard it'd probably just do tight babe squad into your goggles and then just hit the shopping tab and buy one from each. There's actually a question that the masses have been asking me ugh. I kind of let it slip not very often. We have someone with your the right. Word is magnificence presence. Resume the question everyone keeps asking asking is. Why do you do a podcast with ray. I've been getting asked that a lot in the two or three or ninety years since knowing is half the podcast casts started. I'm not sure how long it's been. How do you answer that because this is news to me. I usually say who's ray because as soon as i leave podcasting thing i erased from my memory banks. I think that's the healthiest thing you could do. I tried to read body. Language in ray looks very comfortable right now. Gina it looks it's like you are like sitting on a mound of termites. If lava was coming at you full speed i'm not saying you're uncomfortable but there's nothing that says comfortable comfortable about what you're going through right now. Am i reading you correctly. Yes absolutely when you have a titanic battle such as leonardo versus buffy. I can't imagine any judge. Judge wouldn't feel the pressure of having to determine such titanic matchup so babe squads available at stores everywhere. I look at my watch well. It's about that time. It's about about that time. Ray please do us the honors in today's matchup representing the jaw sweden multi-diverse the slayer who lives the song song another one bites the dust buffy and representing a multitude of comic universe is the turtle who proves that being blue is less easy than being green leonardo. Well done ray now before we go any further. Let's go over the official rules of who would win. Match now rule number one east to bed. We'll i'll be able to make three points. We'll number two the who had matched the random encounter in a neutral location with neither combatant necessarily knowing anything about their opponent or having any time to prepare for it ruled. That's that's right. These are these are official rules gina. This is a real again rule number three the exact version of the character has to be specifically stated now ray which version of up here you use. I'm going to ask you first. Which version of leonardo are you using certa best one. Which is the best one. I'm actually going to use the believe i._d. Ws current iteration ration- of leonardo from their teenage mutant ninja turtles title because i'm gonna stop you right there because i don't believe for a second. You're actually going to hold yourself to just the i._d. W you version because there are different versions of leonardo teenage mutant ninja turtle comic books out there. Are you sure you're not gonna spend a little bit because i know you and start pulling from other of the branches well. I can give you my word well okay. I know you can barely read so how would you be able to figure out if i was using another version of of a leonardo oppo research james gabsi okay so it'd be using the character of buffy the vampire slayer but which version well. It's basically you all you've said this before when we did the he man versus lobo debate and since you're going to be using every version of leonardo from comic books i'm going to be choosing to do the tv version as well as the comic version because essentially it's the same character one built off the mythos of the other and you've done this before so i will to the bitterness. I mean that's i will say that's accurate. Your adjust weeden considers the comic book the next season of buffy. I will say my favorite. Leonardo is the nintendo version and leonardo. That is the best one the midway fame arcade game than here's the deal gina you have the power. You're the judge we should. I don't wanna make you feel any more comfortable than you. Already are big. I just saw you look over at rae twice and then look away really fast. I'm not saying he threw up a little bit in your mouth but and let's face it. I'm very majestic and my presence is so fantastic. I can appreciate not wanting to look to close at the son clips glasses <hes> somewhere if we need them rule number four winner of the who'd went debate is a member of the judge decides that the best ability to incapacitate their opponent to the degree where they can safely walk away with no further threat being present this includes completely destroying their opponent removing it from the field of battle restraining them or knocking them out would went battle-torn not necessarily death matches. We'll number five live the judge that's eugene disallow veto point. Maybe one of the debaters if they feel it goes outside the scope of the battle or is irrelevant to the fight last but not least rule number six each debater peter must use examples of powers abilities or weapons that are part of the specific characters continuity or at least was with that character for good deal of time one off examples of powers are billy's ever a us only once in the characters history will not be allowed and now let's get to the tale of the tape for both of our combatants. Today's tell the tape is brought to you by t-shirts acceptable. Imitations find all the official so who wins shirts on amazon by typing hashtag who would win ray. Please give us the details on buffy buffy. Summers is a high school student who discovered that it is her fate to be a slayer earlier and that she has been gifted with all the abilities necessary to hunt vampires buffy was created by joss weeden and first appeared in the movie buffy the vampire slayer in nineteen eighteen ninety two five years after the movie weeden create an acclaimed tv series based on the same character that lasted for seven seasons and launched the character into the massive the popularity she enjoys to this day as a slayer buffy was gifted with the heart of a demon which grants her superhuman physical abilities as well as innate advanced advanced skills and also the knowledge of the experiences of all the slayers who came before her which means that a nutshell she has superhuman strength speed agility durability and these eight hundred fight against supernatural enemies that she typically faces the most common of which being of course vampires fun fact on the t._v. Series sarah michelle galar car was almost cast in a totally separate role on the show. Yes the original idea was to have galore play the role of cordelia with actor charisma carpenter playing buffy however over the network suggested that the two actors flip roles and that's how we ended up getting the iconic portrayals that we know today that is buffy the vampire slayer and here the details for leonardo now leonardo along the rest of the teenage mutant ninja turtles first appeared on comic book published by mirage studios in nineteen eighty four and the character was actually created by kevin eastman. Eh peter laird the teenage mutant ninja turtles start off as a lab experiment and when the lab was attacked by the evil foot clan in order to steal some of the news the turtles as well as a rat splinter were knocked walked out the window of the lab and onto open tank of the uis causing them to become humanoid and intelligent much like race to kansas leonardo's the eldest brother and the leader of the group of turtles. He's the most skilled the the most serious the most spiritual the most disciplined and the most in line with splinters teachings and thoughts leonardo is also the most committed to his duties of taking down the foot clan and serves as leader of the turtles he trains raines diligently and is an excellent titian and here's an interesting fact about leonardo. Did you know that leonardo's iconex towards are not actually atanas is true many fans writers. There's an even some producers of the various iterations of the teenage mutant ninja turtles thought that leonardo carries around two catanha sorts however catanha's are the sort of a samurai and since leonardo is a ninja his trademark trademarks oars are actually ninja toes which are the preferred sort of the sh- novi also known as digits and now you have the facts on both opponents gina. Do you have any questions before we get started. The the version of leonardo that i am familiar with is is i guess maybe from the movie where splinter is a human who touches the gets turned into a rat. That's the cartoon series. He's <hes> most famously it's oh i think it's it might also be the movie. No i think yeah there's so many iterations of it. That's the problem with the character to write for yeah but i did not think about is an agenda because i feel like he says that in one of the movies also feel like ray gave some spoilers about the buffy. The vampire ars layer series but that's okay one point. I'm not one who was opposed to character and the things they've done without ruling something. At some point i would say yeah that's true. Hopefully everyone watched every iteration of teenage ninja turtles and every single season of buffy the vampire slayer. Haven't i mean what's wrong with you. Go get on it. Yeah okay greg is point number. One place why point number one for buffy the vampire slayer. I want to just start talking about the weaponry that she uses because she has a signature weapon weapon known as the size and the side is what she uses to hunt vampires but i think it very much pairs well with fighting against the iconic teenage mutant ninja turtles first in foremost oh. She is a very acclaimed hand to hand fighter. She's known for using improvised weapons of all kinds and if she has the ability much like a jason bourne type character to to grab whatever's around her in the moment i've seen her pickup logs and sticks and just jam them into the vampire's causing them to turn to dust on the t._v. Show there are definitely moments of that. It happens a feat that i have right here. I'll just bring up now. Buffy was attacked by six vampires at the same time unarmed and she ended up killing all six of them in thirty seconds. This is the type of ridiculous combat abilities that she gained what she became a slayer and she <hes> got some of the the memories and what have you don't even know what taskmaster her. She doesn't even know what she's doing until she's about to do it and she can tap into that happens a lot in the comic books first and foremost is she doesn't know why but she knows that she's doing it and she knows that she's crushing. People talk about the side for example. The side is a two sided weapon. One side is a very it's almost like an axe than the other side is a a wooden stake that is extremely powerful extremely durable and extremely competent in cracking really really hard things that will come in handy here. Let's talk about the pokey side for a sec she had term. I believe that's how i refer to it. There is a class vampires called the terrific han and these are kind of like the elite vampires. The toughest of the tough regular stakes won't even pierce through their bodies and their bones are just so so tough so difficult to pierce when she uses the side. It's powerful enough in its mystical enough that it can puncture through them and caused them to turn to dust whereas a normal stake would not work uh-huh where else would a device such as that come in handy. Oh i know attacking someone with shell protecting them so hitting them from the front hitting it from the back. One hundred percent believe believe that the pokey side of the five is definitely strong enough to pierce the turtle shell and caused major damage to leonardo in a battle such as this the other side the hockey side or the act side. I it's it's really anyway works. It can absolutely be used to fight swords. She's done it before in the past fighting against people who we'll have all manner of swords and stabs and what have you and she's been able to cut through metal with others an example from the comic books that i pulled here where there alongside an armored car and and she's able to take the size and rip open the side of an armored car so she's able to cut through very very powerful indeed metal with the side again. I just don't think that the swords of leonardo with we get into a two swords or one sword. What have you versus the side. I think the side is just too powerful a weapon for any kind of not catanha that leonardo is going to be bringing onto the table in this battle if they to hit instead of the two swords hit each other. I think it is getting broken right there and then it's going to be cut right through not to mention the fact that the t._v. show at one point buffy took a regular sword and she snapped it over her knee breaking it in half she has ability to deal with a swordsman and no question at all the other thing that i'll mention right here is some of the innate training she sparring off with her watcher named rupert giles and he had been trained in a quarter staff since he was a little kid so he has a lifetime of training in this weapon buffy when being given the training of the of the slayers with rupert burp she ends up fighting says i'm gonna take it easy on you a little bit. I've been training since birth. You'd literally just got the staff because of the abilities that she gets imbued with as being a slayer she picks up the staff at immediately beats the heck out of him with it even though it's his weapon of choice even though he's been training with for a very long time another fact i think will come in handy against a leonardo character is the fact that she can match great artistry with weapons even if she's never picked it up before in her life that helps her sword play all all of that combined. That's my point number one gena before i say anything. What are your thoughts on his point. Everyone these these are actually these are some good points. He's relying heavily on the final final season of buffy and the end the comic books which threw me off a little bit at first but then when i realized what he was doing and what he was talking about he is right that the the weapon that she picks up in the finale is pretty damn powerful so he made some good points. I can't disagree with anything. He said again buffy well why wouldn't know truth. It's all true. Actually it is and buffy is incredible character. There's only one thing i'm gonna throw in there and this is more on the t._v. Show i love watching fighting styles and how the stunt performers dues all of their find especially when it comes to weapons work. What's a stunt performer stunt performer. Don't actors have to do all their own stunts. Tom cruise taught me the he's he has. The power of the scientology god's inside him. Oh well not everybody has wounded. Oh i take it all back. Keep going james sure no problem that guy who helped you into as the dumpster to get that half eaten big mac tom cruise. I wasn't tom cruise that was tom cruise told me this is why i put up with gina. I'm telling you it's crazy so here's the deal the site that she uses his actually. It's it's a heavy weapon so what i saw her doing the show which is actually highly accurate she'd have to kind of swing it once possibly even twice a crate that momentum to kind of come down with it on people when she's swelling at once who was that i think it was early season. There was that priests the evil priest. That's a late season that was nathan fillion. Nathan billion okay so there you go shows my show but which is unforgivable by the way because it's awesome but he caught it remember of times during their fight and the only time he couldn't catch is when she actually took a minute to kind of swing it. I kind of a loaded up and then go. That's just kind of a weird point but it's something that i will bring up later on now other other than that. I've got nothing to argue against. What ray brought up. Okay okay so let me go to my point number one and this. You may find a little controversial but i'm standing by called fighting skills. Okay okay. There's no other way than saying that that buffy is an amazing fighter absolutely she's taken on and taken out vampires demons which is and even other like really powerful called slayers right vampire slayers. Yes okay so she's not all that but when it comes to fighting here's the thing i have to explain this to ray in slowly by the way so can keep up there are levels and exactly there are levels and then there are levels okay so in researching both characters. I discovered that although buffy dedicates herself up to being the elite vampire slayer leonardo dedicates himself to being the elite ninja and that's a slight difference so for him to accomplish what he wants to do. He goes through his philosophical trae like who he is himself to get their her deal is not to be the best fighter is to be the most effective of what she does right which in certain ways would actually make her more suited for battle than leonardo but possibly not be perfectly help in a one random encounter when it comes to buffy fighting adding. She's like a strong nine out of ten. Maybe a nine point five scott incredible skill. She's got the ability to tap into that experience and knowledge of past and i believe future slayers ears as well and again. I'm i'm super impressed with how they created buffy and her overall character. She's absolutely incredible but bobby's nine point five then again leonardo's attend. Here's why he's he's demonstrated especially in the i._d. W comic books insane fighting proficiency and this was best demonstrated when he took on batman there was a batman and teenage mutant ninja turtles this crossover vent three of them and one time you know this is after they had initial fight and they all became friends which typically happens there in the back cave and batman and leonardo perspiring and splinters kinda overseeing it and split. It tells you noticed says out loud here. Watch out for him taking you down. That man says don't worry. I'll go easy easy on leonardo and under snow is actually talking to leonardo with which leonardo take down batman which is insanely impressive now. It's nothing against vampires empires which is demons and other slayers but you gotta remember this batman. A completely different type of fighter in batman has really impressed and things like hey this could be we like kind of i think this could be another robin or another protege of types out of all the turtles that would be the person i really wanna. Bring under my wing again. Let's talk about her weapon when she uses it. She's got to get a lot of momentum going to swing that site right and i saw that a number of times. It's still very impressive but she's got a ramp up to get speed. How fast you think leonardo auto is with his double swords right and i'm gonna get into this as well so he's fighting speed with a swords. He doesn't need to whip him around twice. Gill they're very light especially for him because he i also has super strength and super speed super agility so when it comes to counter hate to say it i really hate to say it but in terms of pure fighting skill the edge slightly goes to leonardo ardo. That's my point number one well. If you hate to say it so much. Don't say it especially when it's not true just like it is not a couple of things to say about here. You know i love. The james starts out and he says well. I'm a man of principle of honor. I'm only going to use the i._d. W version of leonardo and then immediately he's talking about an animated movie crossover with batman. It did not take place in the i._t. Double uterus incorrect did i know there is a batman crossover event latino as an animated movie that was actually based off the comic book series. I i just <hes> let me check if batman i w character no he's not. He's a dc character. So what are we even talking about this this is this is the nonsense inside his race so there's actually comic books with end leonardo fighting. Let's talk about since we're apparently as i as i knew you would apparently talking about all the different versions of leonardo. Let's talk about all the different versions of leonardo. Did you know that in other fights with leonardo he lost a one on one battle with rafael who is using size size size versus swords and he defeated leonardo any roughed him up real good and threw him out a window. Okay when dealing with the foot clan he is often defeated by small numbers of the foot clan three three four of these special throwaway ninja we talked about i._d. W towards talking about leonardo the image version of leonardo since you're talking about batman the europeans are reasonably in ardo got his hand cut off. He's so proficient in battle. He fought guy who cut off his hand but in the michael bay version they gave him and hideous muscles they did and they all of the media's facial expressions that were really like awkward kidnapped and defeated by a handful of foot clan members taken back to their base where he was brainwashed into becoming the defacto leader of the foot clan and turned evil because you talk about how spiritual he is apparently he's not spiritual enough because because through a little bit of light brainwashing they're able to turn him evil so as far as i'm so happy to goes. This is the w version the version you claim to be arguing. This guy is is not mentally strong. You cannot argue awfully buffy is not mentally strong. Okay buffy as mentally strong. I'm so glad that she never turned to the dark side or over got influenced by dark uh-huh that's right. She did big difference between getting hit by a demon or an elder vampire and a couple of ninjas with a boom box and an eyedropper. That's all i'm trying to say threader threader all right gene-o. Would you like to hear point number two or would you like the verbal diarrhea of radio literally screwing everywhere. What would you what would you. I would like point number two there you go. I have more diarrhea okay. I'll do point number two point number two. We're going to talk about the enhanced senses of buffy and this is where she is going to be you a cut above leonardo for a variety of reasons first off. She hasn't innate danger sense if something's about to attack her. She knows if something's about to pop out at her. She knows there's a moment where she's walking down the street by herself late at night on the t._v. Show and after walking shoes like looking like something's something's up. She just stops obstinate tracks and she says okay guys. I really don't have time for this nonsense. If you're going to come out and do something come out and do something. I don't want to deal with this. Three vampires just pop out of literally the nowhere one just kind of drops literally from the sky. I have no idea where he came from and be. She knew that they were there. In other instances people have attacked her shot arrows at her and what have you and she's been able to innately dodge or catch those things out of mid air even if she did not see it coming so one thing leonardo over the course of this entire battle is not not going to be able to do is get the drop honor and i know that he is an asia and he's trained in ninja skills and often they like to hide in the shadows even though he's a monster with giant shell on his back. I'm not sure how he would be able to pull that off but if he tries to do ninja stuff but he's got the skills and the tools to shut that down right there and make sure that it's an even even fight in addition to that we can talk about long range for a moment because buffy has shown proficiency in shooting a crossbow and even though she doesn't like guns she has used guns leonardo on the other flip of the coin has never to my knowledge shown proficiency with long range weapons ed detests guns so as far as the idea of using them in a battle like this. This buffy wouldn't like it. Leonardo would flat out not do it but if buffy takes a shot buffy gonna hit the shot the other thing. We're gonna talk about right. Now is hearing and i think that the the of the five senses hearing and sight are very important things to fighting. Would you agree with that. James that fighting and hearing would be if you want to see and hear things went involved in a combat situation. You could ask daredevil about that but yeah sure. Let's go absolutely he will. He creates his own version of sight but let's talk about sight and hearing for moment because buffy has an enhanced senses of she has enhanced install five cents is from being a slayer so one thing that she has his super hearing there's examples of the comic book of standing on a building and hearing from like way over on the other side of of the area korea somebody getting mugged in an alley which superman could hear that but a normal person wouldn't buffy has that sense of hearing one thing that i looked up here. Did you know gina that turtles lack lack air drums. I feel like i've never seen a turtle with really big years. They do not have them so a turtle and back me up. Leonardo is a turtle who was mutated. I choose to to grow big and become a ninja. He begins by lacking eardrums which means turtles have the ability to sense vibrations and hear things through that much like someone who is deaf f. would but leonardo lacks very very good hearing by because he is a turtle buffy super enhanced hearing so if it comes down to kind of a stealth battle title where one is trying to come at it the other from act stab like a rogue dungeons and dragons buffy would be able to pull this off because of her enhanced senses leonardo has weakened senses is in would not be able to do it. I think that's a big deal. I did research on science for this. That is my point number. Two is that what your head's hurting complaining like my head really hurts and he's that was at the deal for those migraine pills by the way science winstone vitamins deny any any thoughts on what you just feel like taste east is very important in fighting. You really want to be able to taste your food before a big fight like if you sit down to a big bowl of pasta you're like <hes> this is really good. It's so good now. I'm gonna go out and fight but if it's like it's like i can't really taste this. You lose all your motivation to fight. That's right sousse at that point. I like that point of normally eat large bowls of pasta before coming over here speaking to you. You're using your super sense of smell right now to <hes> detect the aroma of raise correct. That's correct okay. Let me kind of smells like diet soda and sadness a little bit of despair right right and just a little bit okay so let me let me kind of puts them in there so i agree. I don't think this is going to be a stealth battle. I mean every if you know try to sneak backup on buffy. It's bob. You'll be like blase. Really cool acknowledged that leonardo's in the shadows on our own. Come out and say okay cool. Let's go and i really think that's a great. It makes complete sense if anyone should have that innate danger sense. It's her so i and i agree but here's the thing you could just like. Spiderman has spider sense. It doesn't mean he actually gets out of the way it might help them understand. Something's coming at them but there's this great panel like we're spiderman is getting hit by the hulk and he's like my spider senses tingling as he's getting hit by the hulk repeatedly league like yep still feeling danger yeah there. It is yet still feeling there. It is getting smashed debate so it only goes so far but it's a good thing. He's not fighting spiderman today. What are we talking about right. Now allies ray. Have you lookin mary of okay so am i know. Here's the one thing where you're mistaken. Leonardo does use long range weapons. He uses the throwing serve the shriek into and he's done that before in the idea w version by the way that i'm arguing. He's actually thrown successfully throwing stars in because if he was throwing them unsuccessfully. This is the terrible points on your behalf. I mean i could throw a circuit unsuccessfully. That doesn't make me a killer in battle. Is this your body. Language is saying like eat me some fries for mcdonald's donald god. I do let me get my point number two okay. I'm gonna just call it as power hurts but speed kills and this is where i do think buffy has superior your senses that will serve her well at the beginning of the fight but as they kind of get into the battle being able to see things from far away someone's right in front of you fighting you only works works so well hearing someone coming at you as already in front of you may not really serve a greater purpose than that but where i really feel leonardo is superior to baffin again not by huge amount but enough is in the area of speed and enhanced speed. I know buffy has enhanced speed and probably demonstrated better in the comic book than it was in the t._v. Show but when it comes to speed i still think leonardo is definitely on a different level. Then buffy in one issue of the teenage ninja turtle citizens from w. leonardo has a hand gun and drawn at him at point blank range the guns fired and leonardo not only ducks under the boy doesn't go he ducks under the bullet after his fired mind you and then suites the legs of the person holding the gun before he has a chance to pull the trigger again. That's pretty frequently fast. Another issue leonardo's facing off against the alien threat who's wearing like enhanced exo skeleton type of robotic armor and he's waiting especially in our own as he's doing it. He opens fire by opening up his robotic hands review that reveal ten laser blasters on each hand so twenty and total ray if i'm going too fast let me know and this is at close range leonardo then proceeds to dodge all the laser blasts run up to threaten drag and slice off one of his robotic cans but this is where things get really fun. Leonardo skill enables him to swing a sword at extreme speed like two swords extreme speed so it's not his body movement. It's also his ability used his weapons that he's an expert at so. I check this out. I know a samurai sword can swing speed of one hundred miles per hour by a well trained human. The ninja ninja sword that leonardo has actually lighter than a samurai sword okay so don't ask me it it the exactly but is shorter and it can be sweating slider so oh if that can be powered by regular human who's well trained. Leonardo probably swain at least twice as fast. So how hard would it be for him to hit. Buffy swing between the thing the sorts twice speed of <hes> well trained human while also possessing way more power as well so even with buffy enhanced durability. She's gonna please please be cut and damaged by leonardo and probably outfought because of his speed. That's my point number two and i mean partially well argued on your part. I like the fact that you actually a for the first time in a long time actually brought some real feats an actual examples of your work instead of just making things up having a pure conjecture so i'd like to say you're growing and james. I really appreciate it. Just kiss already talking. No one wants to see that let's talk about. Let's talk about your calf. It's not a visual medium eighty among describes the kiss you described as being having a speed on a different level than buffy and to that i agree. It's a much lower level of speed compared to buffy. It is a a different level. Buffy is described through all of the guides and all of the media that i've been using as having superhuman speed as having definitely above peak human human definitely to a level of superhuman speed and i've got some examples of point number three to back that up leonardo and the other ninja turtles are described having elite olympic level speed strength endurance agility etc so if you have one character who has olympic level a human size level of powers and you have somebody who who has a super level of powers. We've encouraged this in a battle before we've incurred this. You have to give it to the person who has the superpower so the fact that you think that leonardo is faster than buffy when i've got some examples right here that your examples are adorable and don't get me wrong but buffy does that before breakfast generally early on most days. I've got to ask you so where where did you because there's different listings of strength levels levels and all that which which version of teenage turtles are you referring to when you say olympic level because the w versions that are clearly superhuman well since you're using all the different level. I am not the name using your example. I'm using the i._d. W current innovation and i can look up example from that but i would just say much like the way facts working james when a hip you to something right now. When someone tells you a fact sir you often remember the fact but not the source and this is how the fake news purveyors of the world thrive through the human brain is the fact that people remember. Oh i do remember x y i in z. I don't remember where i heard it from whether or not they are reputable what i would say is i looked on some guides that chronicle characters that i looked powers abilities and what have you through the magic logic the internet and the big guy that i had that laid out all of the different like how they would rate the different abilities referred to the ninja turtles having olympic caliber feats but i would say right now that's great. We can even talk about if you think that that's where leonardo is. I'll have examples important number. Three of how buffy is so much more than that all right so we'll agree to disagree which means i'm correct gino. What do you think what's called the turning point and this is where the judge tells everyone who they believe is ahead and what does the other side have to do to come out victoria. So who do you have in the lead and the other side have to do to pull out a win well. Let's see here. You almost had me actually with the gun thing. Because i didn't the versions of leonardo nardo in my head do not have superhuman speed but you have to you have to accept the fact that if he can dodge a bullet he obviously has to have superhuman human speed so that point you almost have at that point till ray reminded me that buffy also has superhuman speed. I feel like his point about stealth is a good one because i do think she would gain the upper hand there. I think weapons wise. They're pretty evenly matched to be honest. I think she probably has a better weapon but he he has a more efficient weapon so at this point i've kind of got i. I'm kind of leaning towards buffy excited to hear that but you know if you've got more points like the a bullet one. That's that's you should pull them out. You should put pull them out because that almost swayed me. That was <hes> you know. It was hard to deny that almost weighed me. I believe i've got more points. I think i can do this but let's see ray. What have you got for point number three point number three and i hate to say that i was sandbagging a little bit but i often do that and wait until point number three to hit you with the really big gun so puppies ahead right now. I am excited because this is going to push it right over the top. We're gonna go into depth about the level of buppies power set as well as some of the feats that she has accomplished first off. She's she fights the supernatural on a day-to-day basis but she doesn't just fight one supernatural character most of the time she's fighting them. A half dozen to a dozen to more there was a time in the comics when she was trapped outside the gates of the city and she was forced to fight an entire horde of demons unprepared. They snuck up. They came over the ridge. She was stuck on the outside. She's like i have to deal with this right now and absolutely destroyed every single one of these mutant demon monsters in addition. There's a moment in the t._v. Show when she's attacked by super soldiers who were all dressed like ninjas black clad head to toe using ninja weapons and she summarily dispatches each one of them and this isn't even with a weapon and they're coming after her with all manner of the ninja weapons and what have you and she just wipes the floor with three or four of them at which point all of the other people come out of the woodwork. Well it was a test. Please don't kill them. They're just people. We're just testing you. Oh my gosh you're so powerful. We didn't think you could do the things that you just did. In the final season of the tv show she defeated dracula. That's right the count dracula the most powerful vampire and basically any universe any vampire. The property that you can look at dracula is the main man leonardo houdini defeat. I mean let's face it in the w version. He didn't splinters the one who defeated shredder header. It wasn't leonardo so you don't have a victory there. I guess you can claim in some in somebody w property he defeated batman singlehandedly but we all know that is alive in additionally additionally buffy and the t._v. Show head play against 'em fighter except she'd been drained of all of her powers. She was relying purely on her combat abilities against a much bigger stronger longer. Well trained m._m._a. Fighter and she took a few shots beat. The heck out of him at the end of the day defeated him. Let's talk a little bit about the strength of buffy offi. Buffy is ridiculously strong easily much stronger than leonardo the mutants turtle one time she picked up a short of glass after being knocked down by a demon and she turned whip the decapitated the man decapitate of the demon with a shard of glass at one point she was wrapped up in a straitjacket notoriously difficult things to get out of she tore <unk> through tissue paper and ripped it off of her own body at one point was fighting vampire and she kicked him so hard he went through a stone wall at one point she needed to get to the other their site of stonewall so she kicked the wall and cut a giant hole in it like it was some crazy commercial with terry crews got it. She doesn't like walls. G hates walls not only that she's so so fast and this is part of the speed as well. Oh leonardo dodged bullets. That's fantastic. Somebody threw a knife at her set of knives and she caught them out of mid air. She call them out of mid air looking say ray i am. I haven't done the science on this but i think bullets go faster well. Let's go thank scientists points race story to catch a knife that's thrown by a master knife-thrower than it is to just move out of the way slightly of a bullet don't we don't even we know if it was fired correctly. We don't even know if the guy knew what was going on with a gun. The gun could have flown out of his hand. We have no idea what the speed and it also goes to her. Danger sense. She wants stepped in a bear trap and she pulled her foot out of the bear trap before it closed and did not injure her. That is a ridiculous level of speed because those airtran happened in an instant. She recognized that she stepped on a bear trap pulled her leg out from the bear trap completely unharmed. Let's talk when we talk about strength. We talked about speed endurance durance because to my understanding leaner doesn't really have a healing factor. He's had his hand cut off at hand st cut-off. Okay bronner's go ahead. All versions of leo are the version she and the t._v. Show and the comics is displayed a ridiculous healing factor where she's incurred broken bones over the course of a fight for being bludgeoned by these powerful four biblical creatures and by the end of the fight her bones are no longer broken and she's using those broke that broken arm one time she got her arm broken by a demon she stood up and at the end of the battle used that same arm to knock that demon unconscious that is an absolute thing that i saw happen gino. You're you don't remember it but that's what happened. I do remember it wasn't healed. She just fought with it but here's the deal she can fight with. It shows an endurance one time that she got in the comic books she got cut she got slashed by demon vampire and she was able to a huge slash along her side continued fighting defeated the monster more importantly. She got stabbed through the torso on the t._v. Show buy a sword and she was sort of like oh. Oh no i got stabbed by a sword and then turned beat the hell out of everybody else in the room. She has these powers and then a roughly a minute two minutes later. It was not even two minutes later. She had healed from that wound. She no longer had the cut in her body. So we've established super-strength. Leonardo's now have super speed at at best leonardo pushes this battle right right there on that regard but a supernatural endurance as well as feats <hes> that she is accomplished in combat. This just adds up to buffy winning this fight and that is my point number three three gina. You're you're you're. You're shaking your head in agreement. Sometimes mush the most of the time you're shaking and disagreement what what's going on through your well. I think here's the thing i know buffy very well every watched it many times so i think ray got a couple of the of the finer details wrong but his his overall general point was was right like she didn't she still she did get stabbed. She was not healed but she she she did prevail. Even though she had the sabaoon she sought a broken arm but she does heal faster than average people so so his overall general point was much faster than average people. There's one point of the show. She wonders what it's like for humans to have to actually go through a healing process yeah. She's injured but she doesn't stay. She's not let me put it this wolverine but she does heal much faster than average people so his general point was correct. How durable is she. She's i don't let me rephrase the question like if she had to because i saw one episode she was fighting is is it faith faith and she she stabbed faith with their own dagger and then day and then faith gave her the biggest backhand and knocked turn down off a platform and that took her out of the fight email faith was sad and i think she needed like face blood to kind of heal herself or something or something along those chocolate yeah yeah and then face that you're not gonna have it and she's then jumped off and landed in a truck that drove off as she was so. I was like okay wait. She's durable. She'd always up with faith back and the faith backhanded her faith character much stronger than leader. Leonardo isn't gonna backhander and send her off a building one of the here's the thing so it's not an issue remember who would win matches in a death match. It could be someone you could like. We've used battlefield removal. We've gone with like 'have you've been snared. You can get trapped. There's different ways as to incapacitate somewhere. We can safely walk away when it comes to this battle. I don't see leonardo having i'm just gonna put out there. I don't even have an ability to necessarily win. Kill her. I don't impressive but that doesn't mean he can't defeat her and this is where i'm gonna go there by the way we brought up the actually i i just got the dracula's not the most powerful vampire ever depicted we did scooby doo versus <hes> michael myers a classic episode where i brought up how scooby doo defeated whom i think is the most powerful vampire ever the australian vampire known as we yahoo you bring this back into the house would probably interestingly howard buffy do against the hour yahoo. I'm pretty sure she probably i mean excuse me scooby doo beat him. I think she's got a look. Wait was it an actual vampire power richard real vampire drugs are bad all right so let me just kind of keep going with this so who <hes> their point number three is not. Thank god. It's good to point number three. I got to defend myself from actually a very good point lasting longer than my points and my point was to to begin n with exactly you won't get bored over about to say but leonardo's taking on in this idea w series there is this one issue where they actually had this enhanced us and bain came over to the teenage mutant ninja turtle universe took over from shredder who got beat by batman by the way and then made it a superior stronger version of of was it rock steady is that like enhanced burglary and then being in has himself even more with us in the venom and leonardo. Oh had one point. I had to take on all three of them. He did such a good job impress bain and then escaped because it was just great cover for someone else we has taken on insanely powerful and and just got away the welcome to get away in this battle as well. Maybe maybe that's what he's gotta. Do okay number three and this is another area. I think where leonardo actually is superior to bobby because there's a lot of areas where he can say that it's durability. That's why i asked about it now. Of course he's taken insane amounts of punishment you know she's gotten even hit by fisk kick thrown things she's fallen from pretty good heights and she typically gets back but she does get hurt and she does have a healing factor but she it does take damage she does she can be hurt. That's the bottom line leonardo. Unfortunately he also gets hit a lot. He's also thrown walls and he's taken falls from really big heights but here's the difference leonardo's taking more punishment in terms of greater heights and i think hits for more possibly more direct hits for more powerful opponents. It's again take bane on venom was super mutated. Who's so you've got a walking talking. Super highly intelligent fighting monster known as bain gene who had superhuman strength magnified greatly leonardo took direct hits from bane of bebop rock steady and tank them felt them but taint them to create a distraction so spread and everyone else get away. He's been blasted by superstrong tasers and the one thing is i know a taser in the buff universe. I think that took out i forget who took doubt but that took out like a very powerful demon i think or at least knocked her down so a taser in the buffy. Universe is a really significant things. Leonardo's had been taste got backup. He's good to go leonardo. This is one oh my favorite ones literally. There was this creature called slasher which i think was a mutated snapping turtle so as a result is cute yeah so there's all he's like a giant savaged teenage mutant ninja turtle who wants to kill the turtles so they're all trying to take him on. Leonardo gets punted in the head by slasher and then kids. Let's pile driven from the punt headfirst into a wall smashes. The wall apart slasher turns around and take on the other turtles and also gets hit in the head by a throwing star from a very far distance distance hits him in the head damaged. Who's got these long. Range attacks turns around and leonardo's backup saying now we're gonna fight for real and is ready to take him on that by it doesn't even take into account leonardo's shell which take even more punishment and has also bulletproof and resistant to lasers to a great degree. Here's the other thing too. Leonardo was as reset one time captured and i think it was the shredder someone else and then thrown off a seven story building where he lands in a dumpster and then slowly crawls out. It's like okay. He's like give me a second. Yeah can still fight so. He doesn't have a healing power but he's got this. Indomitable will unfortunately buffy has that too but i think again. He's slightly edges out in terms of overall punishment. They it can take a moment and this is what allows him to kind of take on and take out much more physically dominating opponents to him so you know i know it's a reach but i still think he's got the better fighting skills martial technique higher level of speed remember getting wave a bullet versus throwing knives which are much lower by the way that's how speed works right and and <hes> also. I just think he's got physical billion. A slightly different level so i see leonardo plus on the tablet is a great tactician. He'll figure out a way to maybe put her through a wall and let the rebel kind of take down or capture some other way or in capacitor. I don't think you can killer but i do think he has a great chance somehow incapacitated or at least lease for the time being that's my point number three and i think you said a lot of things in there that were very freudian in nature because i agree with you. There aren't a lot of areas where or leonardo was better than buffy. It is a bit of a reach to make some of the claims. You're making a couple of the things where your first off his battle with bain. We talked before about one off. Examples should not be used used other powers. This is a battle throughout like a number of pages. Take shots from bain all the time. I would never yes when everybody's paying. Yes i would also say we're talking about this gene a lot in the show. Sometimes it's like who's comic book is it because i guarantee of leonardo shows up in baynes comic book bena throwing them off a seven story building it into a dumpster without really much effort whatsoever as he slaps the swords out of his hands so you have to take a little bit of a grain of salt when it comes to other outside characters coming into your comic book doc you will defeat them. That's just how so you gave examples of clearly of buffy doing all this outside of comic book is that correct no but she's fighting people burrowing universe where her power level in their power levels are established not two different universes trying to cross over. I would say this bad with pain that james so eloquently uses an example. I didn't even win that fight. He ran away so let's just say that now. You talked a little bit about getting thrown headfirst into a wall. This is an advantage leonardo because he can talk his head into his shell and dot suffered a concussion so i would say that maybe that feat of endurance. Maybe not as powerful. Maybe not as strong as it. I might take more punishment and not get damaged well. I would also say you say your show. Joe is very powerful. I established a point number one that she could puncture it with the size and she could absolutely go crack that shell with her weaponry. That's basically what i have right there. James i think made a lot of points for me in saying that yes in a head to head battle. I don't think leonardo's going to win james galaxy. There aren't a lot of areas where leonardo is better than buffy. James gaps and i'm making a little bit of a retailer with some of these examples james gabsi so i would just say my rebuttal is listening to james. He laid it out for you. It's right there gene and more importantly when you look at ray what goes through your mind. Oh i try not to look at him a little as possible. That's a fact i wear one of those handmaid's tale l. blinders anytime. I'm around him as much as i can. I may need to find out where you get. I think anyway gene. You've heard both sides of this argument human. You've heard some great points from ray for me. This is the time where you need to give us your wisdom. Your insight tell us who do you think won this fight and give us an insight into your process and tell us why they want one okay. Here's the thing so so. I have to say the leonardo fighting batman and winning seven and win. It was a tree. I will admit it was a training exercise. Man was like but batman was like there's no way you know he's confident that you've seen batman no way guys taking me down. He did and one in a sparring match and batman. I i will do better that fighting and winning. It's not to the level that i think james say. It's a a good argument as as is the argument that he was able to at least incapacitate bain long enough to leave again like i said the the you know being able to dodge a bullet at pretty much point blank range very compelling. I think by your own admission they're pretty buffy and leonardo are physically weekly pretty evenly matched so i think that if it came down to just a just hand to hand combat leonardo is going to have a hard time all out winning as you said now the the one main thing that is consistent with leonardo's character throughout all mediums is is that he is as you said in the beginning or as ray said in the beginning <hes> he's the one who who who's most closely to splinters training. He's he's not an improviser. He's he uses his training and he's he's sort of if anything portrayed in movies and in the comics and in the cartoon two in the various cartoons as sort of not being great when it comes to skewing away from what splinter splinter has told him what his training has told him so ray all you really had to do was say look at kendra the vampire slayer who was it was a character who is the equivalent of leonardo who was trained as a young child to be a slayer and then when she when she came into her slayer powers here's the first time buffy died which another point you've got to bring up was she's died multiple times and we shouldn't consider has managed to come back but kendra the vampire slayer was sort of the opposite of buffy in that she she relied heavily on her training and was not good at improvisation and ultimately <hes> kendra died and royal glad to hear that and you know buffy herself as sort of gives her this thing about like you need to be able to improvise so i think that even if we accept that they're physically evenly matched with both of you have i think raised point to her weapon in being able to slice through shell and her being great at improvising with other weapons which throughout the series we have seen her use swords and this and that whereas you know leonardo we mainly see him use use his an injustice. I think she gets a slight advantage weaponry so let's just say physicality. They're both even she has a slight advantage advantage weaponry and i would say that she does consistently as race ed face harder foes. I think the the foot clan is is is sort of the red shirts of the of the teenage mutant undeterred universe and even though every once in a while they may get to a big boss battle pretty much. Every episode of buffy is at some point. She faces says the big boss battles so i think consistency wise she faces more big bads and so that's why i've got to give it to ray and i've got to give it to buffy that that is very exciting. The streak is broken james. My street podcast co host tiny. I was literally the you've. You've heard of undefeated. I was literally purely defeated by every single podcast co host i've ever had gina thank you for being the smartest co host. I've ever done this show. We're this was a good matchup. This was a good up. I do think it's a little bit hampered by the fact that leonardo also fights with a team and buffy has had two solo fight many time. I actually okay so first of all. I can't disagree with your your judgments. I thought that was going into this. I'm like okay. This is going to be extremely challenging battle and then ultimately comes so that group dynamic buffy has the scooby gang. Doesn't they call it oh guess but they're nowhere near the helping hand so to speak that the rest of the teenage mutant ninja turtles are to leonardo. He's most highly proficient with them. Whereas buffy is very insanely kick ass. She's the regard manhattan that happened of that team right. He's great by herself and oh by the way she's also great if they happen to be there so i actually agree with your decision ray. I thought your points were horrible. Horribly laid out gina gina for being here because she's the one who really of the i think the people at home no i won this fight so gina thank you. We're doing the will of the people. Actually you made me nervous in your final verdict because actually you're bringing up like all the stake tell you really thought about it and i appreciated that the diligence what made me nervous as you brought up the point about how she died. Even neither of us had ever said it and i was like oh she's bringing in a negative point that we didn't say but then you countered it with a positive point that we also didn't say so so those two things kind of thing you were both talking about durability so i don't think coming back from the dead is a bad thing. I think when you're talking talking about like this one got knocked down but they got back up. There's no there's no better got knocked down and got back up then died and and by the way she was through supernatural super natural means in the first time she she technically drowned and was brought back by brought back by c._p._r. So no okay okay the second time it was. It was her friends through witchcraft brought her back muslim yesterday got it so happens a lot. Okay again you. <hes> you know i've got to admit something i was not super familiar with buffy before we came up this match and then start researching her and i'm like i gotta start watching. The series you have i have to is absolutely unloved character. She's great ray. I gotta tell you you did a horrible job but again thanks to gina you pull out a win. Has it feel by the way getting win. After so long i would say curve every win and the people at home we'll tell you i've won every battle of the show if you left it to the will of the people ray has one ninety two percents of all the who would win in battle. That's an unofficial statistic but i still stand by it. James thank you because if you think i did a terrible job it's because you're salt because you lost and i love hearing that from you because every retired you win a battle. I hear how great i did. I flew strategy. I feel like <hes> this has made me the bad guy i can feel myself turning to the dark excite since i cited with rain is really just a slight veering. I think by by tomorrow morning. I'm going to be killing babies and setting orphanages on fire. Is that what have you can feel the change happening within me. No i don't know where to go from gina. Thanks for being on the show. Please don't nobody <hes> feel free to sleep in tomorrow and not a personal day and just kind of you know reflect on who you are quick though gene and thank you very much much for the victory that i deserved what i would say. I want to talk about babe squad because i am a day one preorder purchaser of babe squad approved. It's proved that i took a picture and put it on the face icebox and he's got like no money how much begging i had to do to get that and they want somebody with a computer about nine dollars worth since i think that's what it's going. I think i paid more than that but it's going down as it was eleven bucks on amazon prime day everybody would say though is it's a really fantastic comic book. You know i'm a big fan. I took took it to work and i show it to people at my work place all the time and so i'm trying to get everybody into the babe squad and i would say this is a personal thing for you at home tom listening to this show. Check this out. It's less than ten dollars to buy on amazon even in no shipping no shipping charge. We assume your prime because we assume you you're awesome but you could probably really find a way to get this for no show. It's like nine dollars to get this comic book. Gina frigging road it with her writing partner haley mancini also fantastic and so it's great. It's really really funny. It's not for kids. It's adult and these ladies kick a lot of butter and i just want to say it's really well drawn. It's really well written. It's funny. I don't laugh out loud. I read comics very often. I did hear and then the we already spoiled it. Put the reveal of the toilet lady. Maybe one of my favorite things i've ever seen because it was so ridiculously particularly left-field part everything just said rate is the visual of you going to work and going out to people and say hey check out babe squad absolutely like you buy by my book. Your book is fantastic. I just like ray of all people not that you're not a handsome man. You're not but just going up to people and kind of like here's babe squad. I would think you of all people i have many years in sales and i can tell you i know how to sell a thing babe squad go by. I'm buying it. You know what based off that. I'm buying it gene. You know seriously you're fantastic. Thank you raise actually spoken very well about you. Wanna meet you forever. We've been trying to get you on the show for a very long time. <hes> pity busy busy with your the t._v. Shows you're writing your on a unicorn coming out soon september and again. Tell everyone where they can find you online and again. Tell them where they can buy squad. I am on twitter at gina epi also on instagram at gene epi and you can buy bape squad wherever graphic novels are sold and by that i mean amazon target dot com barnesandnoble the noble dot com and a few others that would sound totally kind of dushi except when you said and i was like yeah wherever i agree with that statement and ray please everyone where they can find you can find me on twitter at almighty ray. You should also listen to gina abelino myself and some other guy doing knowing is half the podcast. What's his name rob. I don't remember yeah. I get you guys confused. Salat get us confused a lot to be honest with you. I've heard that many other times for many other his name is robert robert clark chan that that makes a lot of sense robert clarke jan you could say knowing except the podcast of course at g._i. Joe podcast on twitter or go onto patriot patriot dot com slash the podcast and help us upgrade once again because ray keeps blowing them out to guys if you if you've listened to any episodes of this show you don't understand i do blah microphones. It's a talent is a talent skill. It's you can find me posey. My question of the day on twitter james gives you remember to join the official who would win facebook group to make a suggestion for a match for the show and in part of our growing community and check out the website at w._w._w. Dot who would win show dot com to access oliver podcast episodes as well to check out some great articles on behalf of myself racy kennison the recipe amazing win team. Thank you once again for listening to another episode of who would win. We'll see you next time.

leonardo howard buffy leonardo ray buffy leonardo leo Gina leonardo auto leonardo ardo w. leonardo tom cruise amazon official bobby james gabsi Decanes murphy brown jeanette batman
Monster buff Leonardo da Vinci would have loved Halloween

Ideas

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

Monster buff Leonardo da Vinci would have loved Halloween

"I'm Keith Macarthur. Unlocking Bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. I am. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard, and our families search for a cure. Oh my Gosh! Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying. Heart in my throat, cure his controversial unlocking braces brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. I'm. Had Welcome to ideas. When you hear the name Leonardo Davinci, it's easy to think of fine art and nearing and design. The Italian Renaissance Man is known for his precise in beautiful paintings like the Mona Lisa and the last supper. His surviving notebooks are filled with mathematical calculations, architectural sketches and early designs for airplanes, helicopters and parachutes. But every so often. There's a drawing of something else. A monster. Leonardo carried into a room of his own lizards, crickets, serpents, butterflies, locusts, bats, and from all these he took an assembled different parts to create a fearsome and horrible monster. From time to Time Leonardo Da Vinci break from his scientific mentality to draw grotesque, looking people, Dragons and strange beats. How do these mermaids UNICORNS giants, dragons, all of this fit in with his supposedly rational, scientific and skeptical turn of mind. Leonardo DAVINCI's drawings of monsters were shown off at a recent lecture at Carleton University in Ottawa by Canadian, writer and historian Ross King. On today's episode, we'll find out why Leonardo Da Vinci. A man of science and reason had such a soft spot for the dark and fierce. Ross King writes history and historical fiction. He's written books such as mad enchantment Claude Monet in the painting of the water lilies, which one the 2017 RBC Taylor, price his book about Leonardo, Da Vinci called Leonardo in the last supper. One that twenty twelve governor General's literary award. He was born in Estevan Saskatchewan and now lives in Oxford in the UK. We've reached him. I want to start with DAVINCI's notes. He left a lot of notes when he died thousands of pages. You've seen those notes. One of those notebooks lake the one that I know the best because it's in London is the foster CODA sees these little, and when I say little I do mean little. They're like mole skin in maybe the smallest size of a mosque in notebook, and what really strikes. Strikes you about when you see them is how small his handwriting is. Everyone knows that he was left. Handed and road backwards is very striking for anyone who sees the Ford or Kota sees is is how minute has handwriting was compared to how we write today and I think it brings back to you both how steady his hand must have been, but also how good his eyesight had to be. Be as the the eyesight of anyone at that time who was a corner on paper in there for writing in incredibly small script, but it's really special to see them because he's really thinking out loud in them. He's He's making sketches of often very rough sketches, but also what he's doing is just trying to put trying to figure out how things go together so in some ways. Ways. What you get is a kind of access to his mind, which something that's so finished like the paintings don't give to us and so you get sort of like the the private life of Leonardo Da Vinci that you get a glimpse of when you look at at the notebooks. What's it like as a as a scholar to be able to peer into the mind of someone like Davinci. Well. It's a great privilege because it I mean. Leonardo DAVINCI's such a fascinating character. One of I think he's everyone's dream dinner companion, and so I think to be able to commune with him across five centuries by looking at his notebook, seeing the ink that he had prepared an. To see his handwriting and his erasures and corrections and things like that is really special and I think if kind of I won't say an intimacy with them, but maybe a a certain kind of historical proximity to him just by virtue of these tiny very beautiful, little artifacts. You mentioned also sketches, and we're particularly interested in the sketches of monsters and dragons. Can you describe some of those sketches? Yes, I mean they're. They're quite incredible because they one of my favorites is. at Windsor Castle, and it is a series of drawings of cats and Leonardo Da Vinci. He liked all animals but he seems to have been particularly fond of cats, and he obviously had cats in his household or else. His father did his stepmother, and and. He was clearly planning to Madonna and child painting with the child having a cat because he's made of studies of the child and the cat together and how that would have worked out of is. To think about what would have been a wonderful painting. And yet in the middle of all of his cat studies, the cats at one point begin to mutate into a mountain, lion, type, Creature Panther and then within that we also have a dragon. He makes a sketch of a dragon, and so I think what's fascinating is that he could do very detailed drawings of things he could actually see and touch and play with, and yet he could also do equally detailed drawings of things. Obviously, he had never seen an merely existed in his imagination. That didn't happen a lot I. I mean I think the fascinating thing about Leonardo Da. Vinci is the fact that in the fourteen hundreds. He's one of the few people who really is playing with this. motif of monsters dragons joins etcetera among his peers I mean we don't find Rafael doing something like that. We don't find Michelangelo doing that unless he's doing something like the temptation of Saint Anthony when Antony was tempted by the demons, which then of course gave license. If you're doing demons, you could let your imagination run wild and you could. Show, all sorts of grotesque beings, but apart from that the person the only person seems to have had an interest in monsters for their own sake was Leonardo Da Vinci. Of course, deeply interested in animals throat the course of his career, it did all sorts of dissections on monkeys, horses and pigs, and he did the leg and foot of a bear. And he also injected wax into the brain of an oxen order to figure out the structure of the ventricles and so at. Times I think is studio must've looked a bit like a butcher shop or something like that full of these animals that he was taking a part trying to. Understand how they were put together in fact, one of his notes to himself, says study the. Tongue of the woodpecker and the jaw of the crocodile, so he really wanted to figure out how how animals were put together what they were made of. And he was, he was looking very directly US carrying out experiments, dissections, etcetera on them, but also doing in the fourteen ninety s was writing out lists of animals and giving their characteristics, and on his list of about eighty. What we would today call mammals of birds, insects and reptiles, but infiltrating his list all of these other creatures things that he writes about the. Unicorn the Bacilus the mermaid, the Griffin and the Phoenix things like that the best seller list he tells us. Is a creature that looks sort of a cross between a rooster, and a dragon or something like that and lane order tells us apparently in all seriousness that it can kill with his gaze. He also writes about the Lamerica. Does anyone know what a L- America is? It tells us it is a creature from Asia minor on that is so bright it absorbs its own shadow, and once again he's someone who was very interested in shadow in the disposition of of shadows, and the relationship between shadow and light, and so he's fascinated with the. Lameta for that reason. His drawing on with OJ. Of course, he's not just making up these animals. There's a long history of them. And he's looking works of medieval writers and their best stories, all of course with a plan to creating his own best jury. The question then is is the relationship of these fantastical animals that he of course has never seen with the rest of what we come to think of. Someone anachronistically as his science. How do these mermaids UNICORNS giants dragons, all of this fit in with his supposedly rational, scientific and skeptical turn of mind, he wrote in a very typical statement. It seems that those sciences are vain and full of error, which you're not born of experience, mother of all certainty, firsthand experience, which in his origins or means, or end has passed through one of the five senses, and for him, of course, the I is the chief organ. He says it's one where by understanding can have the. The most complete and magnificent view of the infinite works of nature, so this is the Leonardo that scientists embrace as a kind of forerunner of them, someone who takes nothing on faith believes only what he gets with the five senses, but if we move into the realm of the Lamerica Mermaid or the giant, we suddenly have these things that he's interested in that he cannot have known through the five senses, and he's willing therefore to in some way, look beyond did look beyond the senses and try to understand. The relationship between what you can see with the i. what you can experience through taste and touch, and so forth, and what the imagination can create, and so, what's the relationship between this kind of rational induction that he has invested himself in, and also the monsters, for whatever reason we'll come to a couple of possibilities whatever reason he's very interested in. Were also interested in going beyond the five senses, so the question is how all of these creatures these dragons for example that you find drawn throughout. Trout has notebooks. How did they relate to what he says about the I and the sensors? He in some ways is an unlikely candidate to be looking at monsters and and superstitions and things like this. Not Only I. Say because of his commitment to empiricism or what we would today call empiricism, but also because of the fact that he was someone interested in proportion. He. studied. Per proportions throughout his life, trying to find the ideal proportions of the human body, so for example Vitriol Vian men, this image of what looks like it. Kind of Snow Angel I can use that metaphor in Canada, because we all know what a snow angel is here. The Snow Angel. This body fits inside both a circle and a square so the human body, the human form can physically occupy the too perfect geometrical forms, the square and the circle. geometrically programmed for perfection, and so this is a kind of. Red Statement about the perfection of the human body. But he was also very concerned with measuring measuring the body. This is something he got from Va Trivia the ancient Roman architect after whom Victorian man is named. The Trivia is measured himself a lot. An would say that his. The palm of his hand would go from his hairline to the bottom of his chin. ETC, mix all of these. Ratios within the human body and Leonardo did the same he had. Two young men threat so uncovered, Joe. He calls them and it's. It's not that Jodi. We just know them. After the names of their home, the the hometowns they came from, and he takes these two young men, and he measures them. and. Tries to find out the the distance from the the eyebrows to the. In relation to the forehead, the nose for the chain, it's Cetera this space between the mouth, and the base of the nose is one seventh of the face. Of the bottom of the Jin is the fourth part of the face. An equal to the width of the mouth can try this at home. Do these ratios get your ruler tape measure and see if you measure up to what Leonardo was finding as he made all of these measures trying to find the key to? The perfect to perfect human features. BAS interest in the grotesque, the ugly the Rep. Killian goes back to the time that he was a child. One of the first stories that we have of him. By his that biographer Giorgio victory. Why said did not know him bizarre? He was born in Fifty and eleven so too late to know him, but he knew many of the people that he did. Research was biography, and he met many people that. A New Leonardo Da Vinci. Until presumably he got some of their stories and one of them is about the first work of our that we are. We know that. Would have created, and that was when he was asked by his father to paint the wooden shield of a peasant in Vinci. So Leonardo's probably twelve thirteen fourteen years old at this time after that he went to Florence where he was fifteen sixteen years old, so this probably set in Vinci when he is a young adolescent. His father comes to him and asked him to paint the shield for him. And so bizarre it tells us. Lane order started to think what he could paint on so as to terrify anyone who saw to do what he wanted. Leonardo carried into a room of his own a number of green and other kinds of lizards, crickets, serpents, butterflies, locusts, bats, and various strange creatures of this nature, and from all these he took an assemble different parts to create a fearsome and horrible monster, but it's also interesting in all come back to this is kind of reconstruction of a monster based on visual observation, because he actually gets all of these creatures, and turns it into this horrible, and ultimately vizor tells us foul smelling creature in the room. He after discards all of the lizards etcetera, he lowers the lights and invites his father into the room, and his father comes in an thinks he sees a dragon, this horrible creature in the room and leaps back. It is the first very upset at what is not as done, but afterwards impressed, and possibly soon after that he apprentices laying Ardo when he Leonardo funding comes to Florence. Where the Father Sapiro is a notary and apprentices him to Andrea del Verragio possibly this story and I'd like to think it's not apocryphal is what got started on his career as a painter? This was not just a childish prank, either because there's another story about him when he was living in Rome in his sixties. Around the time that the portrait was Don's is a mature man in his sixties, and apparently the living in the Vatican and the Vatican Gardner one day discovered a lizard of some sort that he'd never seen before possibly deformed possibly some different kinds of species of lizard and Leonardo Davinci got it from him, kept it alive, and then by catching other lizards and bats and birds and things like that. That put a pair of wings on it gave it a beard, and put horns on its head, kept it in a box when his friends would come to visit, he would open the box and people would see this monster and be frightened by it, and so Leonardo would have this this sort of practical joke. You always had to be careful going to visit him because he would play. Practical jokes like inflating sheep's intestines with a bellows, and you would be forced into the coroner of his room, but Leonardo was a showman, and they don't have time to talk about it, but it's idea of creating. This image of the Lizard that it creates the peasants shield will serve him well when some twenty years hence his at the Court of the Duke of Milan Ludovico Sforza, and he begins making effectively becomes a special effects man with fire, making monsters come out of caves, etc like that. We've sadly we just have a few descriptions of these few of Leonardo's drawings for them, but this is part of the visual culture of Milan. In the fourteen ninety S, Leonardo was very involved in the. We sadly have lost but I. Think it's beginnings is with something like this and has been describing his mind teamed with his kind of invention throughout his life, if his first artistic work was that shield. Shield showing dragon this wooden shield by the that he did for the Peasants Vinci. His last recorded work of art is lost to us. It survives in sketch that was perhaps done by him. It was done on the paper in his studio might have been done by one of his students as a copy of his his nod, law's painting, but an eyewitness in fifteen seventeen two years before he died. Described how he when he saw Leonardo's studio, one of the things that was in the studio was painting, he had done for for King Francois, the first of Friends of a dragon, fighting a lion, and this is like a sort of pub, conversation or something, if a dragon fought aligned, who would win and so this is a very strange. If you consider the other paintings that were being shown at that time, where things like as painting of Saint, John the Baptist now in the Louvre. Or of course the Mona Lisa and so he also then showed this. Dragon Versus Lion Battle. But when he described, dragons and dragons recur throughout his writings. He described how to make one if you were going to paint one. and. This is his recipe for making a dragon. and. It's very much like when he assembled that serpent in his bedroom for the peasant in Vinci. He says that a take for the head of massive round around for the is a cat for the ears a porcupine. Porcupines, ears that distinctive, but nevertheless there we have it for the knows a greyhound, the brow of ally in the temple of an old and the neck of a terror partner turtle. So. That's how you that's his recipe for making a convincing dragon. I think the interesting thing about these descriptions that he makes is that they're very much based in physical observation observation of real creatures. Recruiters that you can see in creatures that and the case of the wooden buckler. The Shield he did see the did create before him. And why is that interesting? It's interesting because links up idea. He has of the five senses to the imagination. You're listening to a lecture called Leonardo's monsters on CBC Radio One in Canada across North America on Sirius Xm, in Australia on. And around the world at CBC DOT CA slash ideas. You can also hear ideas on the CBC listen APP or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Nulla. The theaters have closed, but the show look on, play me. PODCAST thrilled to present a new series. The show must go on featuring provocative productions from some of North America's most acclaimed creators for the stage. Sit back and experience everything from chilling thrillers to Gut wrenching dramas to reverend comedies. Each month experienced the exhilaration of. From the comfort of your own home, Clemmie available wherever you get your podcasts. I told the court that I'm wrong. To. Use One small man. Giant wheel. Wish, to say that it's official that I'm roughly right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong? Pimple, it might be. Available on, CBC, listen and wherever you get your podcasts. Leonardo Davinci was a true. Renaissance Map. Architect designer. Mathematician and Monster Maker. It's not as most well known work. But DAVINCI was fascinated by monsters, including giants, dragons and battles. Most of the time is writing about dragons and things like this he does. There is a kind of whimsy to it, but at other times he does fear. What the imagination! In this episode, we're hearing a public talk on the Charter Davinci's depictions of monsters and his views on the relationship between eighty and reality. Is it the imagination destroying everything, or what is this power? Our Guide is Ross King writer at the Governor General's Award winning book. Leonardo analyze. Monsters appear in ancient heroic myths and modern horror movies as well, but but what is the lineage? What a demoss represent in the classical or the media, it's very interesting monsters, originally a kind of transgression of natural or divine law, maybe the best way to think of it as just think back into any kind of Greek myth, in which we have monsters occurring, and usually they have a kind of genealogy. We learn about the the parents of the Monster Christianity when it came along many centuries after this head to explain monstrosities, whether it was mythological ones, biblical ones or what they could see evidence, obviously, if conjoined twins, which many references to them, someone that has been born with two heads, etc, clearly a conjoined twin. Born sometime which caused consternation because they you know. If you were a Christian, you had ask yourself. Does this creature have a soul? And what is its purpose? What is gone allow? A creature like this something that looks so abnormal and something that seems to defy our sense of what humanity is or should be. Why has gone allowed to exist? an very interesting explanation was come up with by people like Saint Augustine the. One of the Great Church fathers, writing around four hundred ad. He said did it was all part of a divine plan and that monster? The word monster our were monster English were monster. The Italian must throw comes. From the Latin monstrum, which is a reference to a warning, and so the monster is an idea of a warning or a display something being shown some kind of portend or an indication of the future, and some monsters were seen as prodigies. They warned people about something that was to come often something that was going to be quite unpleasant, and so if in you know whether it's five hundred ad or fifty nine hundred ad, if there was a couldn't conjoined twin born or some sort of a deformed birth, either in humans or in cattle, for example, this was always seen as a bad sign. It was a portend of something evil. It was about to come unless people change their ways. And the people that we think of as sort of standard bearers of reason and and enlightenment at this period like Niccolo. Machiavelli clearly believed this and in Machiavelli's writings. For example, we have references to the fact that He says that nothing ever happens. Nothing of significance ever happens in the state unless it's foretold by celestial signs or Indications like monstrous births and so even Niccolo machiavelli accepted This is what monsters represented before a Davinci what was. At that time thought to be the relationship between reason and imagination, reason was of much higher power than imagination reason was in the a higher part of the brain. Imagination was simply the kind of accumulation of sense data that if put together in the myriad ways that could have been structured and put together didn't necessarily make sense, and therefore you got people like Plato, saying if you if reason is not in charge, what you get are a series of things that don't make any sense. Because Plato came out against monsters and criticized them for. In works like the famous saying you tax the Chimera a combination of a lion, a goat, and a dragon or a hip tour, which across between a man and a horse, saying that they're inconceivable, their bizarre curiosities, and he says through the result of illness or drunkenness that when reason is not in charge when you're drunk, you're mentally ill you're you're you're fever? Brain comes up with these These images that don't make any sense, and so he and many of the the people, the philosophers and also writers such as the poet Horace, who followed him were adamant that you should not create in pigment on wall or or with INC on. On a page on papyrus, you should not create images that do not occur in nature. Obviously people had done so there was this philosophical sanction against it from Plato and Horace and others as what I think Leonardo Davinci was trying to do was to go back to that and say that reason. Can work with imagination. Imagination can be rational. kind of rationality to it, and when you put these two things together, you get things that yes, do not occur in nature, but that's no reason for criticizing them. And he exults. He says this is what makes the artist like a God, because God created something out of nothing, and that effectively is what is saying an artist can do an order. Artists can create something that was not in nature amid something that comes out of his imagination. Something very interesting happens when he starts thinking about the brain, and as I said he did dissect an ox head, and looked at the brain, and ultimately not in the fourteen eighty s when he was looking at skulls, but later by the fifteen tens he was able to get humans in Rome and it does appear that he was looking at the human and making. Dissections of that. came up with something very different from Medieval Faculty psychology, which was linked to aristotle, and through aristotle, galen the or the Roman. Physician whose word really was law in the natural sciences, the two great figures were aristotle for virtually everything, and for anatomy, and for medicine. Things like that. Galen was the last word Gaylon of course influenced by Aristotle in his own right when you thought about how cognition work to the imagination, word or perception word in the Middle Ages and before the. ventricles in the brain. It was said. The I was the where the imagination rested, and the imagination was linked. You can see the little lines coming up from the ear from the tongue from the I, it Cetera into that first ventricle of the brain. That's the imagination where everything comes in and it kind of jumble, the second chamber then is where cognition and judgment apprehension understanding all of these. These things take place, so it's a higher function than the imagination. The imagination is almost two kind of storehouse where everything is jumbled together, and sense has to be made as it goes into that second chamber, and then the third is a kind of storage storage John. That's the memory where we retain what judgment has given us. What judgment has pieced together? Leonardo made a number of drawings and writings in which he played with this. He seemed to accept it at first, but then very quickly abandoned and came up with something very different. Still believed three chambers in the brain, but the first two is now just the receptor of impressions, he said they imprint Steve and he has invented that word that we're does not exist in any of the prior literature, so he comes up with this entirely new concept four. For this kind of initial storehouse, this warehouse where the raw data comes into the second one in many ways, the most important one then is the census Communis, which is where the sensory impressions are coordinated finally with judgment intellect, and then crucially the imagination or what he calls fantasy. And so imagination and judgment are now together. They're working in concert. And for the most part hopefully in harmony, and so in order to really upgrades the imagination he moves it into the same chamber as judgment and puts it on an equal footing. Saying the judgement isn't something that just. Strikes from the imagination and something that actually works with it, and the two of them are perhaps equivalent, and so this becomes. A Very I think a very important moment in the history of fantasy and imagination where it's upgraded now to something that isn't simply to be despised. Way The Plato. Plato imagination and reason we're completely divorced for Leonardo. The two things go together, and as I say that dragon that he told us how to make the Lizard he monstrum made on the shield or great examples of that way there's a there's a recumbent nation of visual data. The rational induction is then used by the imagination, and so in his treatise on painting that he wrote for his students. He emphasizes that if the painter wishes to see beauties, which will enamored him his Lord of their production if he. He wishes to see monstrous things which frighten those which are buffoonish, laughable were truly compassionate. He is their Lord and God. So there's this is his answer is celebrating this kind of creation in the way that so many authors before him, philosophers and scientists had been denigrating, and so he's combining fantasy in reason, and saying this is what's going to create a both dragons, but also I think if you look at the opposite side of it is going to create good science as well as going to create. What today we call it kind of lateral thinking where the imagination is working in concert with kind of judgment in. This harmonious relationship, so what happens then with fantasy imagination judgement in the decades and centuries that follow his death, the monstrous things that he's celebrated, well alternately fall out of favor during the enlightenment during the age of reason, monsters or something that the age of reason needs to explain away the greatest sort of great philosopher, the greatest figuring the enlightenment in Spain was fair Ho, who wrote against all of the superstitions against monsters? in Ti throw critical where he's trying to say all of these things do not exist, and they're just the beliefs of superstitious peasants. We have to discard them. Even more famously was the encyclopedia in France with Diderot where all of these things are subjected to scientific scrutiny and rational explanation man i. Got Encyclopedia last week and look what he says about a lot of these monsters centers for example and Detoro himself has done the entry on centers and what he says about them, these figures are. Are Human on the top and equine or goat-like on the bottom. He says that they probably come from the fact that in thessaly on the slopes of Mount Pelly and That's where horses were domesticated for the first time, and people would have seen others on horseback known had ever seen this before, and therefore they could not differentiate. They took one or two two creatures for one. And this is where the center comes from, although interestingly enough, and this is very interesting for the late eighteenth century data row at the end of the article, said almost throws up his hands and says did they really exist? We can't be sure and so he almost backtracks on the rational explanation that he's given, which is very interesting and shows the way in which monsters always seem to be able to these mythical beasts. Always seem to be able to reenter culture the most famous statement about monsters from the enlightenment as Goya. which is his sleep of reason, produces monsters, fantasy abandoned by reason produces impossible monsters united with it. She is the mother of the arts and the origin of Marvel's. And if we just look at that back, reserve exchange two clauses. Reason and fantasy together create marvels. Leonardo would agree with that because that really is what he's saying. These things in combination produce beautiful art. They produce wonderful art. And also as I was saying wonderful science science needs fantasy as much as fantasy need science, but then fantasy when it's abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters sore back to the Plato. We're back to horace, but we're also in some ways back to Leonardo Davinci. Because he himself, I think retreats from the brink of what would happen to the imagination if it runs amok, and this of course is a fear of the enlightenment, possibly the great fear of the enlightenment, the age of reason fears, unreason and a rationality and Alexander Pope asks a question, would you? He doesn't really answer. And in fact, what in the eighteenth century can answer this question with tears? Round can reason hold her thrown in spite of witches. Witches, devils, dreams, and fire any lists a lot of other things as well there is this fear that reason can be dethroned that reason is the throne. Where are we and what sort of monsters are going to be produced? So there's I mean you could use Goya as an illustration to this question. That pope is raising here, but you could also use it as a kind of illustration of what you could say. We're Leonardo DAVINCI's darkest fears. Because most of the time that is writing about dragons and things like this he does. There is a kind of Whimsey to it and I think it's baby all too easy to say that he's just going back to medieval best juries, and this is still his still at heart, the kid on the hills outside Vinci gathering lizards, and taking them home in a Pale to make study of etc, but at other times. He does fear what the imagination could do. One of the books that he owned a big bestsellers of the late fifteenth century was Luigi pull cheese morgantown Majori pull. She was a very good friend of. Of Lorenzo Domenici Lorenzo the magnificent. And he wrote this book in the early fourteen immediately went into print. It's about a joined to become who befriends and night of Charlemagne Orlando and the two of them have various adventures together and this giant. Eats camels picks its teeth with pine trees. All of these things sort of say, he's kind of Gargantuan figure. It's really that. That kind of story that we get. Leonardo appears to have liked it a lot, and in fact he named. His. His houseboy and ultimately is lovers Sallai after. A character after a devil in this books we know he rented a knew about it, and he writes a lot about giant. Send when he writes about giants. His writings take a very dark turn by some of the strangest passages in all of his notebooks, and all of those six thousand pages, or when he's writing about giants. In the fourteen ninety s at the time that he was working on the last supper, he wrote A. Story which he called letter from the East, which is the fiction is that he's writing is a traveler who has gone to the east, and has seen this giant monster, and the havoc that it reeks a man, he describes it has a black face, horrible and terrifying to look upon swollen and bloodshot eyes set beneath awful eyebrows, which causes gotta be overcast and the Earth Tremble, so there's a real flight of the imagination of Leonardo's imagination as he's writing this the face of the. The infernal Lucifer would seem anjelica by contrast with his nose turned up, and it's note with wide nostrils, sticking out of these were quantities of large bristles beneath, which was the arched mouth, thick lips that WHO's extremities were Harris. legos of cats always finds that metaphor finds the similarly of what what is going to be like. The teeth were yellow, and from the talk of his instep he towered over the heads of men on horseback. so that's how tall he is even as instep. Taller than a man on horseback. Alas, now he gets to the after he's described, gets to the meat of what happens a last. How many attacks were made upon this raging fiend to whom every onslaught was as nothing? Oh, wretched folk, so he begins this apostrophe to these people who are being slaughtered by a wretched folk for you there avail not impregnable fortresses, nor the lofty walls of your city's nor being together in great numbers or your houses. Palaces etc, and he goes on to describe the wailing of the children, the death of the parents, and the way in which humanity has to flee, and they flee into underground tunnels and lives. He says after the manners of crabs and crickets in these little holes scuttling Ron, so they're really surrender their humanity. And so in some ways what we have here is out as flight of the imagination, giving us a kind of natural disaster, a terrible enemy who smites all of the people who's rash, rational world, who whose army whose fortresses kind of military engineering in which Ironically Leonard Da Vinci himself specialized. All of these things cannot save the people from the giant. In fact, they cannot even save the narrator of the story. Who Ends the story? Story ends with him saying I, know what to say or do for everywhere I seem to find myself swimming head down within the mighty throat, and remaining disfigured, in-depth buried within the huge belly, so he and narrator has not survived. What we have is the story coming out of the belly from beyond the grave of what this giant has done, and so in many ways we have this. We have Leonardo's exercise of Fentor Zia. Ultimately destroying him. He ends up dead. Nothing can save anyone from this. This terror that goes on Lazio appears to have been. Overrun trampled destroyed like everyone else by what what's what's happening here? One of the things that's often said about Leno Davinci is that towards the end of his life. He developed kind of dog pessimism. I wouldn't want to sign up to to too much of that. In fact, lectures I've given a couple of times this year's Noda's years in friends, the last two and a half years of his life try to argue that he was actually very productive, relatively happy very happy because they had a very good patron that people always point to. A couple of drawings five of them in Windsor Castle. which are his deluge drawings, which again are visual representation of what that giant did there the destruction of humanity by a flood destruction of cities by floods, a hurricane at see this first one where we see fluid dynamics, running amok, destroying destroying everything in its path, there multiple versions of them, explosion and flood on a rocky mountain cyber. Everything is being swept away, so we seem to have a kind of apocalyptic vision written. Written pocket elliptic imagination at the end of his life where what he saw in that giant in the fourteen ninety s when he's writing that story he almost feared was going to come true in some way. It's difficult to know how to read. These is someone who does a drawing this, which is incredibly beautiful in fact Ludwik Heidenreich. What are the Great Davinci scholars of the first half of the twentieth century says these. These are the best worke ever did. This is not clearly the work of a madman. This is someone in full command and control of his artistic powers, so it's difficult to know how to read these. Is this not just fluid dynamics running amok? Is it the imagination destroying everything? What is this power that he sees destroying? What is it a metaphor four but I think one thing to celebrate about. Leonardo five hundred years. Years after his death is is the ultimate crossover figure, he is the one who goes across from art designs. There's very fluid border for him. And in fact he would not recognize those two distinctions, and you know as he didn't recognize that distinction of Judgment in one chamber, and the imagination, the other they worked together. They have to be linked or two carriages on a train coupled together going to the same destination. Ross headed researching those monster. Change your own thinking about Davinci one of the things that were so used to with him as looking at the I, guess we might call them the canonical paintings, the works of art that he has created like the Mona Lisa like the last supper. That every everyone knows where Familiar with these, but suddenly I got to look at Leonardo Da. Vinci Sketches, which were unfamiliar some of them like is grotesque drawings that sort of cartoonish figures he does of of of the formed faces or people who clearly have some sort of a generic disorder, a- jaundice, far to larger, a an enormous Browett Cetera, we might know those, but for the most part is strong's of monsters. Don't get reproduced that widely as always able to really commune with a different kind of Leonardo An. An ally order who wasn't committed to ethereal beauty, as he is in his last paintings, but rather to to a something much earthier, much much rougher, and in some ways equally interesting like some other artists defense she said to have had a dark period, in which he was deeply pessimistic, and and there was a period marked by more monstrous are art and writing, maybe because of depression or other melt mental illness. I'm wondering what how fair you think it is to read into defense. She state of mind through his writing and his art. I'm I'm reluctant to do that because of the fact that if we read. Leonardo like that we read everyone like that and we have to say that fantasy novelists or on the hinged in some way or anyone who writes. Anything that has a dark complexion to it. is is disturbed in some way, and the very clear cases of people. With mental illnesses who have created great works of art. I'm I'm. There isn't enough evidence outside of a number of things Atlanta. wrote the give, or in some cases drew that give us an indication that he actually was experiencing the kind of emotional or mental difficulties that sometimes ascribed to him at the end of his career. If we are going to say I, mean the period of investigation as bribes, the last decade, or so of his life, and maybe more especially, the last is less two and a half. Student half years of his life, nine, hundred, sixteen, two, sorry, Fifteen, sixteen to nineteen in France there. There aren't really objective observations by other people that I think. Allow us to say this about him, but if we look at what he was writing at that time, his vision does seem to have darkened, and he will make little pen trials. He'll take his pan out an almost warm up his hand to write he will, he will say Inner tell me if I ever. Did a thing. I'm and he seems to be. Distressed about his lack of accomplishment he seems to believe and this was actually said about him by other people after his death. Is seems to believe that he hadn't done everything he could and should have done, and so I think he was troubled by that, because after all he had only completed a handful of paintings, he had not published anything a lot of the grand plans that he had such as the what was going to be his greatest work of art. He thought the Lebron's horse. The monument to Francesco Sports in Milan did not get finished, and ultimately the model for it was destroyed, and so I think his legacy. was going to be poultry one compared to what it could have been. And therefore I think maybe when he was on his deathbed in in April of May fifty nineteen, he probably did think that he was reproaching himself for not having completed more than for having as A later writer said of him having have for having produced as talent and maybe wasted time doing things that he should not have been doing rather than committing himself wholeheartedly to finishing certain of projects. I really liked in your lecture. How you describe that what Vinci was doing was looking past the senses, and relying more on the imagination and I wonder what the rest of us, ordinary non polymath people can what lessons we can draw from that kind of approach. Will I think one of them is is simply to use our imagination. Maybe maybe this is a kind of mindfulness, exercise or something like that to a close almost have a kind of sensory deprivation and clearer minds of everything that is around us and let the imagination runamuck. and Leonardo certainly did that He would talk about the way it would almost give. Experiments. Too Young painters where he would tell them to when they're lying just to stare at a blank wall and look at the wall and see what develops on it, and he would say that Using some visual data, but he would say that you know. Possibly a crack in the wall will be suggestive. Of a river, or possibly a you know that might be a Dan. Patrick something like that which would would morph into another image for them, but it was this idea of just letting the imagination run free, and giving it a kind of free reign which. I think. People didn't do very much back in his time and I think we don't do enough. Either of probably were always very fixated on getting the latest data of whether it is something we're reading or whether it's something we're looking at, but it's sometimes it's nice to shot all of that out and go beyond look beyond or it's. Say we're even committed to using the metaphors of looking, but somehow go beyond the visual go beyond the five senses. and. Imagine, let imagination. Take us to somewhere that were not expecting and that we maybe didn't know existed the time of the year when. Adults who would otherwise be reasonable are dressing up as zombies, vampires and monsters of all sorts. Given what we've heard today. How would you guess Leonardo Davinci might have felt about Halloween. He would have loved it. and I think I can say that with great confidence. Because of the fact that it another career, he could have had if he were alive. Today was a Hollywood special effects person because he was the go-to person. In the fourteen ninety S in Milan fourteen eighties, nineties and Milan, and then again in France and the war valley at 'em was after fifteen sixteen, he was the one who created masks and pageants, for whether it was the Duke of Milan or the King of France and so he would design costumes would design stage doors that open with flames coming out. He would have dragons stalking the stage Cetera so. He would have Halloween would have been one of his favorite favorite holidays. I'm sure and he would have. I'm sure designed his own costume in the costumes of others, and of course they would have been fantastical and wonderful. That's wonderful. Thank you so much for speaking with us. My pleasure, thank you. Ross King is the author of Leonardo and the Last Supper and the title of his talk at Carleton University was Leonardo's monsters. Thanks to Carleton University for allowing us to report that lecture. You can go to our website. CBC DOT CA slash ideas to see Leonardo Davinci's drawings of monsters, beasts and rackets. You can also find more episodes on that site on our podcast or the CBC listen. This episode was produced by contributing producer. Matthew Liaison Writer. Technical production, by Danielle Defoe. Our web producer is Lisa. Senior producer Nicol Election Greg Kelly is the executive producer of ideas and I'm Nella Miot. For more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC. DOT CA slash podcasts.

Leonardo Leonardo Davinci Leonardo Da Vinci DAVINCI Ross King Mona Lisa Leonardo Da Leonardo Vinci writer France CBC Plato Milan Carleton University Leonardo Davinci CBC DOT CA CBC London Leonardo An
Leonardo Da Vinci

Bedtime History: Inspirational Stories for Kids

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Leonardo Da Vinci

"Close Your eyes and think of your day think of some of the objects you saw family friends trees maybe bedtime history Luke Ludovico Sforza there. He created paintings and worked on inventions for the duke the ability to create an improved technical devices works the Virgin of the rocks and the Last Supper depicting Jesus and his twelve apostles he also helped design buildings and gave the Duke Ons which means rebirth because the way people saw the world was changing dramatically during this time the Medieval Times were over Leonardo Da Vinci Means Leonardo of Vinci the town where he was born he was born during a time that later became known as the renaissance an Pencil drawings and technical drawings of weapons and other mechanical devices he was very interested in how things worked and created new the next step in an artist's life was to join a guild and Leonardo did just that when engineering advice for his army one of Leonardo's other biggest projects was a huge twenty four foot bronze horse for Duke spores that he spent twelve all new and fresh as we get older many of these things become familiar perhaps not as interesting tonight we're going to learn about Leonardo Da Vinci Dale Verragio in Florence Italy an apprentice is a student to a master artist at this time Florence was known for its gifted and people are beginning to see themselves as beings who had control over their life in the world and could think differently than those who came before them Leonardo grew up but this father and spent much of his time exploring the land around their home he loved to observe the birds and animals and get lost in the beautiful countryside accepted into the painter's guild in Florence a guild was a group of skilled artists who worked in Matt together at this time He created many around the age of fifteen has father noticed he had an interest in a gift for art for this reason his father had him become an apprentice to Andrea I see the world differently to Leonardo was born on April fifteenth fourteen fifty two in the country of Italy in a town called Vinci to make grand sculptures Leonardo studied and helped with paintings and sculptures and virtues workshop until he was twenty years old it's called engineering and Leonardo was a very gifted engineer he worked for Dukes for for many years there he painted two of his best known who is one of the most curious and creative geniuses and recorded history as we learn about him think about how he saw the world differently and how you artists and sculptors virtues workshop Leonardo learned from his master how to paint and sculpt sculptors use materials like clay or marble the ball most of these objects are things you are used to but when you were a baby they were very interesting you are curious about everything because it was years designing it out of clay which would be a mold to be turned into bronze unfortunately before they could pour the metal into the mold to finish the horse sculpture the project was stopped because war started and the metal had abused for cannons instead of the Horse in day someone decided to get together the money aces he loved inventing things and fourteen eighty two when he was about thirty years old. Leonardo moved to the city of Milan where he worked for the cities is no longer duke so Leonardo stopped working for him the Leonardo continued working in his workshop in Milan and soon had his own students and apprentices to finally build the Horse Leonardo had always wanted if you ever visit Milan Italy you can see it today after the war dukes four zero was in Florence he painted his famous painting the Mona Lisa we in Ardo was a gifted artist but he wasn't afraid to learn new topics and never stopped learning he was infinitely curious Leonardo I began to study math and science he studied the human body which is called anatomy he also observed the flight of birds and studied the flow of air and water anything for granted and saw the miracle in everyday life and studied it to try to deeply understand it eventually Leonardo move back to Milan and continued his he looked at everyday objects through different eyes he wondered how bodies worked how birds flew in what gave living things they're motion he didn't take it hundreds of French army invaded and took over Milan so Leonardo left and went to Florence where he had been an apprentice as a young man antics studies writing and creating many sketchbooks help others understand the human body and how it worked he came to believe that all bodies and living one of the most famous artists of all time Michelangelo has also in Rome working on the pope's tune roam the famous Saint Peter's the famous Saint Peter's Cathedral was being built at the time Raphael was painting walls and then Pope's new apartment and where he lived in Nevada and worked for Giuliani DE`MEDICI at this time many of the popular renaissance artists were living in creating amazing works of art worked according to certain laws of nature which was very ahead of his time in fifteen thirteen around the age of Sixty Leonardo moved again to Rome Egypt sixty five Leonardo was asked by the King of France to move there where he became his main painter architect and engineer which was a great honor he continued his sketches and consulted other artists in their works he also helped plan a palace guard for the king he spent a lot of time his writings and sketches about nature in his many notebooks which fortunately we have today Leonardo passed away at an old age while living in France today we're lucky to have many of Leonardo's paintings and notebooks a helicopter and a parachute which he sketched in his notebooks he also had the idea for many military machines such as an armored car a giant crossbow in a three barreled cannon when you get the chance you can find a book about Leonardo's inventions at the library or look at them online they are amazing any of the ideas he had were for machines that wouldn't be invented for hundreds of years for example in a study of birds and flight he had the idea for an airplane one of the most interesting things about Leonardo was his ability to take his artistic talents and his engineering skills and combine them he became known as a renaissance man is the way he came to better understand the world one simple object at a time and because of his curiosity and ability to combine many different skills to invent amazing things he believed artists were the best qualified to achieve true college because of the unique way that they were able to view the world think about that is you observed the miraculous world around you never take for granted the little things to learn more about the world around you likely. Arto you could take the time to study Iraq relief and sketch it in a notebook just like Leonardo did in the big blue sky and the white moon the dark of night maybe you saw smile and objects moving the car speeding by someone thanks even the smallest living things like a flower or a B. extraordinary as you look at them closely learn more about them. Think about what you might do.

Leonardo Luke Ludovico Sforza Milan Iraq twenty four foot thirty years twenty years
The Hand of Leonardo

Against the Rules with Michael Lewis

42:44 min | 1 year ago

The Hand of Leonardo

"So ladies gentlemen, we move to the Leonardo da Vinci. The Salvator Mundi, the masterpiece by Leonardo of crisis savior previously in the collections of three kings of England art ninety million being auctioned, the parting of rich people from their money ninety five and I go one cent. It takes me back to the early nineteen eighties. And my first job after college. I was the stock boy for a New York art dealer. Call Wildenstein just about everything about the place felt like a secret except for how it started at the end of the nineteenth century Jewish street. Peddler in Paris named Nathan Wildenstein traded rags for paintings with some oddball artists, they called themselves. The impressionists he did this. So well that by the time, I got to the Wildenstein's the family had the most valuable private collection of art in the world, huge vaults line with racks of Monet's Renoirs and Poirots that no one had ever seen. They had Rembrandt's they had Raphael's. They had sixty nine Fragonard 's today the whole collection would fetch fifty billion dollars easily, but it was a strange business selling art. So guarded, the Wildenstein family didn't even really want customers to know what they had for sale to keep their tax status as a public gallery. They stuck a few obscure paintings on the downstairs walls the rest. They kept hidden upstairs with me. And so when people ask me what I actually did for the Wildenstein gallery. I found it hard to explain one of my predecessors had put his foot through his on. Clearly, my job was not to do that. But most of the time I just sat in a small cubby upstairs in waited to be asked to move the art around. There was the aroma of Cologne warned by rich Frenchman. But otherwise the place was a sensory deprivation chamber weeks would pass without anyone showing up. Then one day Thomas Hoving appeared. Hoving just spent a decade running the Metropolitan Museum of art and was still a huge deal in the art world. The Wildenstein's told me to show him whatever he wanted to see no one else got that sort of treatment Hoving, trusted, his first impressions? Actually. That's not quite right. He made a fetish of his first impressions. As I hall paintings in and out of the viewing room he stood with his back to me. He refused so much as to glimpse the pictures until I had them set up on the easel, I grunt and groan under some laughing cavalier by FRANZ halls and hoisted onto the red velvety isil, then I'd say ready, and he'd swivel kind of like a gunfighter and blurt whatever popped into his head sublime luminous nineteenth century copy. And every now and then he'd swivel and holler fake. Life in the art world had made Thomas Hoving wary as he stood in front of art works in the Wildenstein vault. He told me that half the paintings in American museums were not by the person whose name was on the wall. They were by someone else in assistant a follower before jer Hoving said that was the point of all the secrecy to hide the way the art world really worked in the way. It worked was that the referees and the art market the experts who declared a painting was by this old master or that one those experts were encouraged to make mistakes Aref who attributed a painting to a famous artist was paid a lot better than ref who said it was by some obscure assistant. Hoving may have been the single savviest player. The art market has ever seen by my time. It Wildenstein he was representing private collectors, and he didn't want his clients to be fleeced. He trusted his first impressions. Because there was nothing else to trust the art world, more or less was rigged. That's what he was saying and the referees help to rig it. The rest repaid to say, yes, yes. It's a Rembrandt. Yes. It's a Monet. Yes. It's leonardo. Where's that one? Fifty welcome. At one hundred fifty million won sixty might take it at one hundred and fifty million many places still sixties, I'm Michael Lewis. And this is against the rules. A show about the attack on the thority of the referees in American life. And what that's doing to our idea. Fairness. Ten to big. Carvey hanging with Alex right to. Leonardo through ten you coming to forty million. Konda used to be the alternate arbiter, especially in legal cases, even this is Walter Isaacson. He's written books about Ben Franklin, Albert, Einstein and Steve Jobs. And now he's written about Leonardo Davinci and told the story of this mysterious painting supposedly by Leonardo of Jesus Christ Walters interested in who gets to decide who painted what? And how they decide the art refs. They would bring in Thomas Hoving biller people like that. And they would make a pronouncement and then just not not brook any dissent whatsoever. As it happens. Walter, and I went to the same high school in New Orleans. He was eight years ahead of me every couple of years the entire student body of the door. Newman school would be herded into the school auditorium to hear Walter. Speak there. We were told all over again that we should all be a bit more like Walter in every time Walter had some new achievement. I had gone to Harvard then had been a Rhodes scholar then had been the youngest editor ever time magazine. God knows if that was even true, that's what they told us and here he and I are again, he somehow now written the best biography of Leonardo Davinci, which brings us to this painting called, Salvator Mundi and a question who painted it. There are few facts you need to know about the Salvator Mundi. The first is that it depicts a common subject in the history of western art, Christ as the savior of the world been painted thousands and thousands of times in more or less the same way Jesus looking bored or even a bit stoned stares straight ahead, his left hand holds a globe in his right hand is held up by his side. In the version. I'm talking about Jesus has his fingers crossed like maybe he's just fibbing. The second thing you need to know about this particular painting called Salvator Mundi. It was auctioned by Christie's in November two thousand seventeen up to that point. There was no record of Leonardo Davinci having painted it. Most paintings by Leonardo can be linked to documents that describe Leonardo working on it or promising to work on it, or at least pretending to work on it. He painted so little and so reluctantly. It whatever he did paint usually struck his contemporaries as worth mentioning. The Salvator Mundi has got nothing not so much as a footnote in. Leonardo's diaries one of Leonardo's assistance mentions Leonardo being asked to paint something called Christ the father, and that's it. Last thing. Most of Leonardo's paintings have his actual fingerprints on them. He likes much the paint. Are there any fingerprints on the Salvador Monday is or anybody out there's well, no, there's no Leonardo fingerprint that authentic h it? The first mention of what might be the painting comes in sixteen fifty one that's one hundred and thirty two years after Leonardo died. A piece of Christ done by Leonardo was listed along with the rest of Charles the first possessions after he was beheaded in London for treason, but it's unclear exactly which piece of Christ. It was around the same time. A check artist named Wenceslas Haller made an engraving of Jesus as savior of the world that engraving was said to be a copy of Leonardo. But that engraving also looks like any number of Salvador Moonies. It was yawn row by this. Point if anyone back in those days had any conviction that Leonardo painted, this particular, Salvador Mundi? They did a really good job of hiding their feelings. Meanwhile, the painting that Christie's eventually sold that got tossed around for years as if it had no special value right through the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The picture was identified as the work of someone called Bernardino looney then later as the copy of a work by someone else called bowl trophy. Oh. And no one really bothered to keep track of it by the nineteen fifties. It was officially lost. Oh, but it wasn't lost. It was in New Orleans hanging. Just a short walk from the houses where Walter and I live right through our childhoods. It had been bought in the late nineteen fifties in London for forty five pounds by New Orleans. Couple named Warren and many Kunz the Koussa's lived on the same street as my parents, six blocks away everyday for roughly eight years, I rode my bicycle to school past this mysterious painting who knew not me, not Walter. No one. Anyway, Warren, mini coons died and left their art collection to their nephew in two thousand four the nephew died and his heirs sold it through a New Orleans auction house. That's where New York art dealer. Robert Simon pay ten thousand dollars for Tartu say what it was it was a severely damaged torso. And head of a sad. Looking stonier holding a crystal orb yet, it started with Robert Simon couple of dealers who kind of found it had a sense of what it might be. Then they have cleaned cleaned. I mean, what exactly do they do? Well, they over cleaned it. An over restored at many critics would say the question is how many current brush drugs on that piece of wood actually were from a brush being held by the hand of Leonardo. And I suspect not many because you know, probably done by artist studio. And certainly the restoration when it was found in Louisiana Jesus had a beard. So they take the beard off of him in the restoration because Lintas Las hollered copy done three or four centuries ago didn't have a beard. So when they were store they take the beard off. So it begins to get more musing, maybe. But even after the Salvator Mundi has been repainted feel more likely Ardo. It's still doesn't feel much like Leonardo for example, the crystal orb is a real problem, at least if you wanna believe Leonardo painted reading your book, the person I'm reading about would revel in showing the optical affects of the clear globe on the other side of the globe. And he doesn't do that. Right. And that's a bit of a mystery which you have there is a crystal orb that Jesus holding and a crystal orb as Leonardo very well new because. He studied lenses, and the focusing of light would have distorted the robe of of Jesus. And yet there's not the tiniest bit of distortion in the robes of Jesus. But what the restore does to the painting maybe less important than what she doesn't do. This would be the moment to test the pain to see the sort of stuff that Leonardo used to test. The would Bassy how old it is. And to do this out in the open, the people who had this painting the dealers who discovered it, and we're trying not indicated they had it restored by goodwill stores, but all done in secret. It wasn't as if we have what we think is a Leonardo, and we want one hundred experts in and we're going to invite television crews end in science, and as we strip off parts of the paint and take his beard off and repaint some of the strokes that would have been a period where you probably could have had more independent scientific and techno. Michael analysis. But I think they were keeping it under wraps, then for reasons I understand, but on totally perfectly. So would be the good reason to do that. I think that they wanted to keep it under wraps because they hadn't finished offense accounting. They hadn't put up for sale. It's pretty great. You find this painting in Louisiana. You really hope it's Leonardo. So you can sell it as a Leonardo. But the smart way to do. This is to keep it in hiding for a while. Then they I go to the experts referees. And only now after the paintings been gussied up by its new owners do the authenticates get involved, but not openly the new owners don't just call in any referee who might have something useful to say about Leonardo era paintings after Jesus has been repainted heavily. And he looks a lot more likely than he did before the new owners hand pick the refs. They want to see the painting in a way that makes the refs feel like they're being invited into an exclusive club. They send them this note saying we all convinced that it is not as regional Russian. Although some of us consider that maybe parts, which are by the work show. Would you be free to come to London at anytime in this period? We all only inviting two or three scholars only two or three scholars that was an against the rules reenactment, by the way, one of the authenticates later declare. Bears. The painting look to him uniquely Nardo in conceptual terms in the way, it looks at the sheer complexity of seeing what stands out from me. No one seems to object to these authenticates assessing the painting in the presence of people with financial stake in their judgements. And by the time, the scholar show up the stakes are huge if two or three refs declare the picture Leonardo. It will be included in a blockbuster Leonardo show at the National Gallery in London and the experts declare yes, it's a Leonardo not kidding one o'clock this morning lines seven hundred when we people camping out on museum steps for spa. They will seem to cave. To cave videos on the national gallery's website for years to come people. Get this pilgrimage to make contact with. Genius. From palm. So that was the two thousand eleven show at the National Gallery, and guess what happens after it? The Salvator Mundi is sold in secret to a Russian billionaire for one hundred ten million dollars, the Russian billionaire sticks in Swiss warehouse for a few years, and then put it up for auction at Christie's for those of you following online. You may not have heard the big was three hundred fifty was cold all the telephone not three hundred fifty million Leonardo Salvator Mundi at three hundred and fifty mid air Christie's at three hundred fifty minute and looking for another bit police Ross well at three fifty. When that painting was being sold. You didn't hear whispers of doubt? It was definitely by Leonardo by the time. It was old. Yeah. Well, they did a very good publicity job. And even I was on some panels that they organized, and you know, they rolled it out beautifully. And brought it to San Francisco and Leonardo DiCaprio looked at it. And you know, it was very well handled. Not just the going to the traps of authentication, but also the publicity traps. And then I'll realize this wasn't because it was even Leonardo or because of the inherent value of the painting. It was because it was called the last Leonardo was the way they marketed this at the auction. The point isn't whether or not this particular, Salvator Mundi, Leonardo I have no idea of brush attached to the hand of Leonardo Davinci was responsible for any of the strokes on the thing. The point is that no one else does either. There is no good evidence. One way or the other only the opinions of a few rafts and the refs are clearly more compromised than you'd ideally want such a person to be, you know, you have many ways of making money off of you get to write the book the catalog if it turns out to be Leonardo it's much better than saying. Hey, no, no. That's just a twentieth. Century fake. They may or may not have been paid directly for their opinions. But they do much better for themselves. If they say, yes, yes. It's a Leonardo. Until now this entire podcast has been about the death of the referee. Everywhere you turn you could find referees under assault. There are thirty questioned their expertise doubted, but there's an exception a certain clean of ref still retains enormous power and prestige the authenticating the people who were there to assure us that thing is real. Once you start looking for these sorts of refs. You see them everywhere and the money they can manufacture more or less out of thin air. Let's consider the market for used cars just for a minute. So I by the car, I drive off the Lunt. I'm not doing anything. Crazy. Nothing happens to the car. Then I can't sell the car for what it's worth. So that's the point here. You have a case where a market has disappeared. That's George Aker lawf- professor of economics. He's famous in part because he's married to Janet Yellen. Who was the chairman of the Federal Reserve, but he's also famous for some thoughts. He had on his own back in the late nineteen fifties seemingly obvious question crossed his mind. What is a brand new car lose so much value? The moment it leaves the lot. If the same car, why should it plummet almost instantly up to van economists assume that buyers and sellers come to a transaction with basically the same information? But with things like used cars, that's obviously not true. Maybe the buyer and seller. Don't have the same information. You thing. Think that the seller has more information than the buyer the seller knows that that car just yesterday went over that terrible bump and then something else went wrong. And immediately decided I've had this car too long. I'm going to see if I can sell it to somebody else. So Acharaf wrote this paper called the market for lemons. It shows that when the seller knows more than the buyer and the buyer knows that the buyer lowers the price he's willing to pay any lowers it to the point where only the sellers of really crappy used cars are willing to deal causing the buyers to lower their prices even further it becomes a vicious cycle. Under the weight of all those lemons, the market simply collapses, a trusted ref can make this kind of market work making the buyer field protected from whatever secrets the seller might have by making the buyer feel like he's not getting lemon. There's no market for a badly damaged painting of Jesus Christ until a few. Art ref step in and say, yes, it's a Leonardo. The ref exist to restore the allusion that there are no secrets. Now. You might think why would a market in need of a neutral ref wind up with a ref who actually isn't neutral, but look around it happens a lot just ask Steve is men, although people seem to know me as the big short, Allah. Michael Lewis, Steve Carell played is men in the movie as a character with such a gift for insulting Wall Street. Big shots that the people who work for him, we go to meetings just to watch. But the bigger point about Heisman is that it didn't trust anyone not even the refs and his distrust made him rich, the crash of two thousand and eight gets called a housing crisis. But it was more of a trust crisis. People trusted the ratings agencies whose job was to evaluate the risk of subprime home loans, and they will give different letters to them. So the the best rating is triple A. Which means the probability of loss is almost zero these ratings agencies, Moody's and standard and poor. They were the refs who's calls is mean decided he didn't trust. And and what pressures would there have been on a Moody's or standard and poor to to rate rate bonds AAA when maybe they weren't going to be AAA. The the pressure was simply can Nommik in the sense that you were paid multiples more for rating that kind of stuff. So the more of the stuff that you that you would do the more money it'd make and if you didn't do it. The fact if you did the guy who said, you know, what I don't like this one I'm not going to rate it s and p would do it. The whole point of Moody's SNP was to be independent referees to judge the value of the stuff that the Wall Street banks created they were supposed to says the loans that inside the bonds. And then give those bonds a grade. Before the financial crisis is been went to SNP to ask one of its executives. What records she got from the banks? What we said to her was went went in the process of creating securitisations. Don't you get the low tapes? So that when you're doing the ratings you have a better idea of what's in there. And she said we don't have access to that. And I said, what do you mean, you don't have access to that? She says will the investment banks will give it to us. I laugh I said what he mean, they won't give it to you. You're the ratings agencies. They have to give you what you want. And she basically mumbled that if they had asked for they wouldn't get it. And then they would just walk across the street go to Moody's. So this surprised you I was shocked because it would have basically meant the ratings agencies didn't have any better data than I did. And that stunned me. Back in two thousand and eight. When Wall Street was collapsing, and Steve is men was making a fortune. The problem was clear. The ratings agencies have been bought and paid for by the game's most powerful players the rest lack of independence at fueled a world historic financial crisis. If someone had told you in early two thousand nine that the ratings agencies would be in the end unscathed by all this that they there'd be no reform of the structure of the raise agencies, and we'd be sitting here ten years later, and they'd be still being paid by the banks to to rate the bonds. Would you be surprised? I'd be stunned stunned because what's interesting is that there have been massive changes that have taken place with respect to the banks. I mean, truly massive. So then you have this other piece the referees of the securities that we're the pro at the heart of the problem. Correct. And the referees haven't been reformed, and why do you imagine that is? Is no it's one of life's great mysteries. One of life's great mysteries. Some things were reformed after the crisis to fix Wall Street, but not the refs. Why would this be? Why would a system prefer a bad ref to a good one? Why would it want a Thana cater the doesn't authenticate? Is McCann explain it? But your Jack off can. Let's take a. Somebody who is a very hard time getting a mortgage. This person is very risky, but that person's willing to pay a higher rate of interest on that mortgage. So I that bad mortgage. I don't mind the fact that the ratings agency it allows me to by the that band mortgage because then when there's my regulators or my board of directors, or my stockholders, whatever they can't blame me for the fact that I bought that bad mortars. Oh, this thing. And then he's making big profits. They can't play me that's the role for the phony ref. He absolves everyone at the table of responsibility. The guy with bad credit gets alone. The Bank buys alone gets a high interest rate. The ratings agency blesses the deal. Everyone seems to win. Here's the funny thing about referees. Just now the only place in the economy where they seem secure is where. Where they've been compromised because once they've been compromised their short of at least one truly enthusiastic source of support the people who control them think of it as a rule of thumb find a happy referee, and you found a problem. So we have a new rule where the referees are happy and prosperous, the probably helping to make life less fair. But let's flip it around. Let's ask a question. What's truly agreed just example of unfairness in American life? And are there any referees present at that scene and for years and years and years fortune magazine would have a cover story every year saying who gets paid how much ferry neutral, and then all of a sudden around nineteen ninety they cover story saying it's out of control. That's no minnow who helped found something called I s I s stands for institutional shareholder services. It was supposed to be a neutral referee to prevent the people who ran America's biggest corporations from abusing their power or paying themselves too much. So when you've got basically, the capitalist favorite magazine telling you, it's out of control it's out of control, and that was a fraction of what it is today. Way back in nineteen eighty the typical corporate CEO was paid roughly fifteen times what his average employee made. Now, he's paid roughly four hundred times with the average worker gets paid CEOs looked around and they saw investment bankers making tons of money. And they would say these guys worked for me. I'm a captain of industry. I am moving mountains. I should be making as much as they are. And so they started baking just tons and tons of money, and it just kept escalating escalating and escalating and these pay plans were incredibly complicated. So I was put in a position of kind of refereeing. CEO pay. It didn't have any real authority. Is there anybody in the CEO pay world whose job it is to declare pay packages fair for the company well in theory. Yeah. I'm Jan Cors. I am a senior managing director and region. President for Pearl Meyer. Which is a compensation consulting firm. We get hired by companies to advise them on their executive pay programs their border director pay and all of the corporate governance things. Go along with that. Jen cores is an example of a referee that simply didn't exist before CEO pay went nuts. The CEO pay consultant. There's a part of the whole question that I just don't get in the part of it is the idea that you need that extra night your ten million dollars. Yeah. Those extra nine million dollars of carrot. Yeah. For making good decisions inning. Smart. Trying hard are necessary to get a guy who's already am bishops in Taipei versus ROY to try hard. Make good decisions. Smart. Nobody's offering me ten million dollars to make a good decision about you know, what book I write Nesher? Nobody's offering most of the people in the company they're just assuming that that everybody's gonna try their hardest and make good decisions. This. This particular class of human being needs this giant reward in order to be smart is actually quite damning about that class of human being. So she was brave to talk to me. I don't wanna misrepresentative us. But I thought that maybe she might talk about Pearl Meyer as an authenticated or of CEO, pay packages. I mean in theory, the place exists to judge whether the CEO's pay is a good deal for the company, instead, she wound up defending how much see ios get paid. Why baseball players need that much money? Just because they happen to be good. Don't they love baseball, wouldn't they they basically less money. They do they they do and they they do play baseball for less money. So they do try hard for less money. So the answer is they don't need that much money. That much. Yeah. That's true. But that you don't get better performance out of them because of the money. No one argues, the baseball players have better the more you pay them. In fact, the argument you get in professional sports, if you pay a lot of money, they'll get lazy because they don't need the money the money anymore. So exactly. So in fact, it the best time to have baseball player is when you're not paying them anything, and you have the first six years of his career, and he's got a minimum salary and he's trying to prove he's trying to prove something. So why isn't the same true of the CEO where let's keep him on a starvation diet until he proves something. I was clearly making her a little uneasy. She didn't have a lot of power here. She was brought in by companies mainly to help their CEO's pay packages off the front page of the Wall Street Journal. And I guess the argument is is that by the time they get to be the CEO. They're like the Aaron Rodgers, right? They have they've already been through their trial. They've already done they're proving and having gotten to that CEO level. This is now where they get their. Reward. They're so valuable that you need to pay them this or in order to get them to do the job. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yes. And no there's not a lot of people that can hit hundred mile an hour fastballs. If you can do it you can make a lot of money. There's not a lot of people that can run ten billion dollar companies. Maybe that's true. I don't really know. There seemed to be a lot of people running big companies just fine. And a lot of others who don't seem all that different from them who'd be perfectly happy to do it too. I mean, how fragile must have company be so desperately need this one incredibly special person to run it. But you know, what's even harder to find the incredibly special person who can run a large company a person who's willing to referee them straight up. If you have any questions or comments regarding any of the for management proposal, just go to the standing microphone. Mike nato? Mike mayo is spent the last thirty years analyzing American banks. He tells shareholders whether they should buy or sell their shares. He sees it as his job to say about banks that one really is a lemon back before the financial crisis. Mayo saw that a lot of banks were making bad loans, and he called him out publicly a long list. What is the pass the board doing homework to ensure that group had the best most effective chairman? That is a very good question. That's mail a Mike in the great hall of the congress plaza hotel. Chicago is nothing really great about the great hall of the congress plaza hotel. It's not even a hall. The hotel website says that it's perfect for a reception of twelve hundred but really it's more like a place to throw a party to which you hope. No one will come. I mean, I've seen I've seen the slutty of companies where the CEO in the German on this day in June two thousand eighteen the great hall holds only a few dozen people mainly retirees and no Wall Street analysts except Mike mayo. Mayo buys a single share of stock and each Wall Street Bank. So that he has the right to come to meetings. Like this and grill the board of directors who sit on the stage among the largest US banks city had worst and five returns among its peers in two thousand seventeen yet hitting the CEO paid by forty eight percent and the grade imply that top management got almost rate. So why the disconnect your well? I think you know, companies have different kinds of to have different different jobs to would you say the city group CEO's over your during your tenure of watching them. Have been better at running the Bank or at getting themselves paid while city. What an example, I mean, this is an extreme example of CEO pay the Bank industry or corporate America, generally, CitiGroup. CEO's of the last two decades have gotten paid about more than any other banks eat ios at the same time. They've had the absolute worst stock price performance over that period. When was the first time you raise you you voiced any kind of complaint with what ac- was paid. Nineteen ninety four I raised a concern about the CEO of KeyCorp saying that the CEO's getting paid too much money in conjunction with a merger that they were doing and Mike concern was they did not disclose the information away that people could readily see it. So when you said that how how do they take it? They cut off all business with the firm that was working with. So when's the next time? You did such a thing. Well, then the late nineteen ninety s I wrote about compensation in the banking industry and some executives were paid too much and some CEO's repaid too much. And I thought that was all fine until I got fired the Wall Street analyst who does his job and speaks up about CEO pay is the analyst who keeps losing his job. It doesn't make any sense until you realize that the point of this ref is not to be independent, you're on your seventh. Brokerage firm my seventh. Brokerage firm, not attitude. Do young people ever come to you and say, Mike, how do I be like you? And and keep my job every now, and then but not too often. I think if I were to go about my career the way I did starting thirty years ago. Then I think I'd have a hard time keeping a job. Let's recap step one. A market in need of Aref Justice revive because the seller might know something the buyer does not the market for a used car, subprime mortgage and old master painting or for that matter a CEO. Step to the seller in one way or another captures the raff step three. The compromise ref becomes a stable raff a happy ref. He's an integral part of the market and has enough powerful people on his side that he makes a good living. He absolves both buyer and seller of blame. Now we arrive at step four when you hear the first creeks and groans of system about to crash under the weight of its own stupidity. So who is Bernardinos Louis? Ni Bernandino Leany had worked primarily north Italy and had returned to Milan in fifteen eight to set up studio practice and paint in the number of churches, thereafter, mainly doing frescoes. Matthew Landry's is a Leonardo scholar at Oxford University that period when he returns to Milan, he he has the opportunity to Maitland auto Vinci and Lantos studio through associates that that Leonardo had their funny thing happened after the rest pronounce the Salvator Mundi, Leonardo it went up on the wall of the National Gallery in London in two thousand eleven and some other refs people just as qualified as the ones who proclaim the painting Leonardo got to look at it for the first time Landrace was among the experts who I saw the Salvator Mundi while it was surrounded by gawking tourists when it was a fit I comply. But when he looked at his I thought wasn't of Leonardo it was Bernardino looney Landry suspected Bernardino Lueneburg painted, most of the Salvador Mundi, perhaps supervised by Leonardo though widely Narda would have done this without leaving any record of it is unclear but just because Matthew Landers thought it doesn't mean he's happy to say it into a microphone it. You think there's a chance entirely by Louis and Leonardo had nothing to do with Ono. No, I would not want to say that. Of course, there's a chance visit chance could be by all sorts of other people. There's no hard evidence that it was even painted in the sixteenth century. But you can see why Landrace would no longer wanna say it. There is a lot of pressure on art historians to be careful about commenting on paintings because people will then skew that information or change that information into discussions of value. Art markets not sort of. There's a lot of pressure on art historians there is, but it's all in one direction. It's not a pressure to say, no, it's not a Leonardo. It's a pressure to say, yes. Yes. It is Leonardo. And once someone said it the pressure only mounts to the point where it might affect even the most successful graduate of the isidor Neumann school in New Orleans, Louisiana. When I got invited by the auction house to be on the panels and be part of the special shows. I kept saying, you know on balance. Here's what I think. But I wasn't going to be a flame thrower at that point. I wasn't going to say, oh, I think this whole thing could be a total fraud. You get wrapped up in the excitement of it. Now. Fortunately, what I wrote in the book, I wrote well before this excitement. So I stand by everyone of those words, but I suspect on a panel. I got a little bit more enthusiastic simply because you know, you wanna be part of the party at three hundred and seventy million dollars. Four hundred. The last one you will ever be able to buy the last one in private hands four hundred minutes the pits, and you knew a Saudi prince would end up buying and the piece is so. The Saudi prince made a gift of newly Nardo to the new museum in Abu Dhabi that has arranged to call itself. The loof. Adapted. Liuw Abu Dhabi enquiring. All of this was all over the news. And then the world moved on except for one piece of it. The Salvador Mundi. Yes. I wanted to find out if you know win Salva tour Monday Leonardo painting will be on display. Do not have any information yet them. So you don't know why unveiling was postponed or where where it is. Now. No, one seems to know. I don't know. I mean, these rumors that the pictures gone missing. And they're these newspaper reports that the original Leuven Paris has has some small problems with the idea of hanging on the wall of it. Satellite museum, at least described as Leonardo. It was supposed to phone previously. But no, we do not have any Bidian. Do you know when you might have an update, I think whatever happens, I'm going to doubt it. I'm Michael Lewis. Thanks for listening to against the rules against the rules is brought to you by Pushkin industries. The show is produced by Audrey Dilling and Catherine Jared, oh with research assistance from Zoe Oliver, gray and Beth Johnson. Our editor is Julia Barton meal. O Lebel is our executive producer. Our theme was composed by Nick Patel with additional scoring by Seth Samuel mastering by Jason Gambro. I show was recorded by Tofa Ruth and Northgate studios in Berkeley special. Thanks to our founders Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm plaid wool. Think much. The different. VM?

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 Leonardo da Vinci and the mystery of the world's most expensive painting

Today in Focus

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Leonardo da Vinci and the mystery of the world's most expensive painting

"Today. The mysterious story of the world's most expensive painting. Ben, can you take us inside the auction room at Christie's seventeen? Two thousand seventeen. What happens? What's it like? So Ladies and gentlemen we move to the Leonardo Da Vinci the Salvator Mundi the masterpiece by Leonardo of Christ. The savior is something sexy about it, but also something perverted. Let us sort of. You know isn't there and the odd gaspar something reaches the stratospheric level two, hundred million is bid at two, hundred million. Two hundred million seems that they were quite a few bidders up to about two hundred and twenty million for the Leonardo. So you coming back in after two hundred and twenty million, they were just two bidders both anonymous both on the phone. One bidder was kind of. Normal he turned out to be the under the one. He didn't win for the other guy, his bidding it was off the map. Suddenly, he would lobby in ten million dollar increment I thought so. Three hundred million. Then, the next thing he would love in an eighteen million dollar increment I mean. Why overpay by eighteen million or something, and then the winning bid right? The bidding was at three, hundred, seventy, million, four, hundred, million dollars is the bid and the piece is. Sold With A painting that was thought to have been lost to history sold for more than any work of ever had at a public auction. But how? Ben Lewis is an art historian and has spent years trying to code this mystery. No one knew when the auction ended who the winning bidder was and is very unlikely that winning bidder wanted his identity to be outed. His book, the last Leonardo. Hours of interviews with people across the art world tells the story of a painting that may be a masterpiece. By Leonardo DA VINCI A two. Now it is the greatest guessing game in the art world today who bought Salvador Mundi Chris once say who the buyer is only saying that quote the bids came from all over the world that can from the Guardian I'm Rachel Humphries today in focus how the Salvator Mundi became the world's most expensive painting. So the savior of the world originally commissioned by a French King Louis the twelfth once owned by an English one Charles I is destined to find a new owner. Another question is whether it's a US buyer or someone from overseas. Most of the speculation is on foreign buyers today probably China or Asia. Somehow you know the name got out news either because people in Saudi Arabia were so amazed at what had happened. You know that insiders leaked the information or is because somebody you know in the American Intelligence Service was monitoring what Mohammed bin Salman was doing maybe some bloke at the FBI was the monitoring Mohammed bin Salman like this is so gross i. got a phone at the New York Times, anyway got out Mohammed, bin Salman, the de facto ruler Saudi Arabia. The the guardian of Mecca had bought. You know a very significant image of Jesus. Christ. Say Muhammad. Bin Salman obviously hasn't confirmed that he was the buyer it seems that an associate of his were sent to do the bidding day in November twenty seventeen. Why do you think bin Salman might have wanted the painting I mean is he known to be an art collector? I think Mohammed bin Salman thought he was buying the Mailman Eliezer and in a way it's a good bet if he. Put It in a museum in his kingdom or you put it in the Abbey Dhabi Louvre maybe people would flock to the Dhabi Louvre just like they flocked to the Louvre what do you think this purchase tells us about Abu Dhabi. In Saudi, Arabia tells us that they want US artists camouflage. Kings and Queens bought works have offer status and used to make themselves. Look look more glamorous but. Nowadays it's all that and it's also something else. I mean worse because is to distract us from everything else. They're doing to distract us from the liberals arrested his to distract us from the activists that they put in prison his distract us from all the human rights abuses that are listed in the. Guardian. Obviously saddened fronted the Salvator Mundi. What would I see what I be looking up? The full technical documentation of the restoration and all the photographs today with have not actually been publicly released. But if you're standing in front of what you would see is a bust portrait of Christ his right hand will be raised in blessing. His fingers crossed and I think fingers crossed his qua- significant symbol for this picture lots different ways like good luck or I'm. But anyway here it's like I'm blessing you crisis blessing you in the other hand he's holding this transparent orb right and this kind of picture it's called a Salvator Mundi. It's a picture for private devotion. It's like forty six centimeters high thirty, six centimeters long and Christ face wafts out you in this soft smokey look, which is you know Leonardo trademark style. It's Arto. The result is like a head that almost looks like an apparition. These painted by probably the most famous in the World Leonardo Da Vinci which most people think familiar with but was he? Delivered between fourteen, fifty to fifteen nineteen. And Leonardo is known delicacy and His grace and his fusion of naturalism and idealism. Do we know how many paintings produced in his lifetime there're a maximum of twenty surviving paintings by Leonardo and fourteen of those are widely agreed to be Leonardo's I think you can whittle it down to nine. If you're really really fussy let's just say they're fourteen bona fide a universally agreed Leonardo's surviving in the world today and let me tell you how little at is do you know how many pictures surviving pictures we have by Rafael now two hundred. Okay. Wow. Why is that? Because Leonardo spent a Lotta time conducting his scientific studies and he also took a long time to paint his pictures You know he wasn't particularly keen on painting. You know he he got bored. He left a Lotta pictures unfinished. It's a famous quote by Leonardo Laboratory Causa Mentally, which is basically painting is all in the mind that sounds like a great excuse for not doing any work doesn't it? You know how he worked Arthur became famous. He would Sydney studio producing a prototype sort of master picture of something like the Mona Leeza or the Virgin and child with Santan why he was making his cartoon or he's sort of prototype his assistants were busy making copies that were then sold questioned with the Salvator Mundi painting. Is is that Leonardo's prototype or is it just another copy? that. Discovers the Salvator Mundi and where did they find it? These two dealers Robert Simon and Alex parish. They found the Salvator Mundi at an obscure auction house in New Orleans the painting turned up in an auction in New Orleans Louisiana in April two, thousand five. It was a picture in a minor auction house and one that that I spotted in the catalog together with a colleague of mine. Alexandra. Perish. That's such a good chalk and cheese couple or partnership I should say robot Simon's like you know quiet ever die bit strategic diplomatic careful Alex parishes like Indiana Jones. He's intrepid explorer his get his hands dirty finding pictures you know amazing guy. He knows when the Internet came along, he was smart enough to develop this his own database of auction houses. It might have pictures of interested to make sure they send him the electronic catalog or their newsletters or whatever, and he says he's to spend ten hours a day. Click Click Click clicking he said there was no picture That was for sale anywhere in America that I didn't know about that was my emission one day Alex, Perez Click Click, click, and he found the Salvator Mundi item six, six, four in know sent Chelsea Gallery New Orleans Estate Sale. You know actually if you're a dealer and you see a salvator, Mundi you kind of know there are lots of versions of it. You know that's well known. You know that Leonardo might have painted the original so is offered only Alex spotted his picture and that when it was auctioned, he was possibly the. Only bidder it was estimated only one, thousand, two, hundred to one, thousand, eight, hundred dollars. It's like nuts and what year was this this was two thousand and five he rings it rings out Robert Simon says, will you go with me on this? So he could import the Salvator Mundi for under six hundred bucks in two thousand and five neither of them went to New Orleans all done on the Internet and the phone and Robert Simon. Acts parents have been going around telling everybody that they paid around ten thousand dollars for it but. You would wouldn't you know you wouldn't say she paid just less than six hundred dollars each for what was thought at the time is. Not Going to say a Leonardo for half the price of iphone you. But, the painting that turns up when it sent to them from the the auction house, what does it look like stage? It looked like a work by a follower of Leonardo Da Vinci of the Salvator Mundi it was badly overpainted the first known photograph of this picture dates from nine, hundred, Ninety, seven to nine, hundred, Ninety, eight when it was in the cook collection and you can see in that picture that. Had A very odd face job that picture I mean Christ seems to have a moustache and. Droopy Like. He's really stoned and he saw looks like a Mexican from a sort of you know surgery fifties Western but the hand didn't have over paint on it and the hand looked very good. I mean that's pound. No the blessing had incredibly good and that's what drew Alex Parishes attention to it. So by the time, Alex Pasha Robert Simon, get the painting they're pretty convinced by the hand that this is a genuine painting by Leonardo Da Vinci no I do think. So that's not how they. Felt. They could see the blessing has really good but they had no idea whether it was a Leonardo or not. They thought it was period, which means it could be a by Leonardo be a sort of collaboration between Leonardo in his workshop a designed by Leonardo painted by an Assistant Leonardo finished off or it could be something painted entirely by one of Leonardo's assistance or followers based on a design or drawing that Leonardo had in his studio, which means it could have been painted you know. When Leonardo is alive or twenty years after he was dead, the Salvator Mundi belongs in one of those three boxes. Say He Alex, Parish Robert Simon get? To, restore the painting. Relate. went to am Diane Modest Dini who is a very, very highly regarded restorer who'd restored scores of paintings for the Kress collection for museums in America. We touching the picture. Studying. There were a lot of changes penalty of a major soit which had already been exposed. Is that a point to which a painting is restored so much the moves away from being the original animal. Republican is there no hardened false rules right The other problem that you have to bear in mind desires spectrum right with restoration at one end and forgery at the other. You you think that affords painted out of thin air, a blank canvas or wooden boss something up. No. A lot of forgeries you know a painted on really old pieces of wood and allow them are painted on top of second-rate pictures. So this is a picture is kind of up cycled you know or cooked. You know there's a bit of restoration. That's fine. Okay. You have you have holes in pictures. You Know Mo- most when you go into the National Gallery, we're GONNA to any museum most pictures much more damage than you think they are. So it's kind of okay to fill in the gaps between things like you know what's on either side see fill in the gaps that's called in painting or bridging in, but it's more difficult. If you come to the picture, you know the Salvator Mundi, all is the mouth where it so badly damaged you don't really know what was there to start with what do you do then who for? Some people in the art world, it's fine to make it look as good as new on best guesswork fine. You're an expert story. You got plenty of experience. You know you've studied renaissance painting and Leonardo's for decades do your best because we know that some of these other bits are really good. So you can kind of make up the rest as best you can. But for other people, you know that's an anathema and one of the dilemmas of this painting right is it's really very oh, caterers tour a picture like that. If it's a market restoration, right? If you're selling the picture if you're a dealer or private collector that's. Not. Okay in the modern age to restore a picture like that if you're a museum and the dialing for. Herself to Mundi is it it's a market restoration of a museum painting. The National Gallery in London took an interest in this painting for not coming in the inaudible exhibition. One of us, the National Gary Very hard indeed about including the Salvator Mundi Exhibition. Overseas, a picture just been attributed to Leonardo. It's in in private hands. We felt in the end that the case for its attribution to Leonardo was sufficiently strong for this to be the moment where we would put it together with other words to see how people felt but rather extraordinary meeting took place. Didn't it in London before that? What happened at that meeting? At the National Gallery Director, Nicholas Penny and curator. Luke's Eisenhower organizing a Leonardo Exhibition. They saw the picture in New York they liked it. They thought it was a Leonardo. They wanted to put it in their Leonardo show, which was going to take place in three years time are they knew they couldn't do it by themselves that would be to say their solution was to basically convene a High Council of the world's five. Greatest. Leninists Leonardo specialist to look at the picture in the national. Gallery's Restoration Studios Conservation Studios in London in the meeting of the Leonard meeting, and that took place in May two, thousand eight behind closed doors. Luke size came out of the meeting and told Nicholas Penny that everyone agreed that it was a Leonardo or they some people did were concerned that Leonardo's assistance might have painted part of the picture notice no blurred line. I mean the whole thing the whole. subtexts here is less just forget about the Leonardo Plus Workshop Category, and let's just call everything that might be Leonardo workshop. And then the. Is Leonardo Viennese quite basic, right. So there was some people at that meeting. He did think it was a Leonardo and others by the art historian common bombeck who would not so confident. She said I don't think this is a Leonardo Davinci I think is I think it's a bowl traff yoke one of his assistants that Leonardo finished it off. Did you go to the exhibition? You remember even Salvator Mundi there dude, what do you make of it? I didn't hear the music of the spheres you know I mean. I think. I can't pretend that I'm expert art historian much more the Guy. Who tells the story of the story? So I I looked at it and Thought Yeah it's okay. It looks a bit odd as an he's got a kind of froggy face, but it's got that sort of ethereal. Leonardo. Feel about it hasn't it. Feels authentic. Okay. Not Really I mean once just left in I want just left feeling ambivalent towards it. The exhibition takes place in London Two Thousand and eleven and it was hugely popular lots of people saw the painting. Last queuing one o'clock this morning. I think there seven hundred when we got here. Is a massive people, but they all seem perfectly happy to. Better in a cold, it was worth lack of sleep. Piece of history in the making. then. After that, you might presume the the painting would be worth a lot and lots of private buyers we wanted to get their hands on it was that the case knows quite difficult to set after twenty eleven. Really. Robert Simul suggest you. That's because he put such a high price tag on it. How much did he? Twenty? Two, two, hundred, million oh okay. Nobody made an offer navy said, how much will you take for this because? It's too damaged. Do you want to pick to that damage in your collection? How are you? GonNa Label it Leonardo question-mark plus workshop question mark plus was it's just too tricky for Western Museum. Coming up. Salvator. Mundi finds a buyer. What's the best mattress for you? If you're an egg or a kitten check out the competition. But if you're a human person, put your body on nectar mattress as well as award-winning layers of comfort, you can sleep easy knowing you got incredible value mattresses start at just four, hundred, ninety, nine dollars, and she get hundreds of dollars in accessories thrown in as well as a three, hundred, sixty, five night home trial and a forever warranty. Go to necker sleep. Dot. com. D-. And then somebody does actually decide to buy a Russian businessman. He we see and how does he fit into this story? The picture was in the doldrums nobody seemed to want to buy it, and then along comes to meet favorable of. Shania Google in Chester. Thurston. Dmitri Rivoli have made a fortune in the potash business in Russia. He's got six billion in the bank. What does he do? He decided to build a bespoke collection of the world's greatest paintings. It's like Modigliani it's Picasso. It's Monet. It's Renoir. You know it's basically now that's what I call hard for you. Can scenarious and Alex Berenson Robert Simon and trying to sell the Salvator Mundi they write to Dmitry. Rybolovlev he says, Oh, I'm interested then he asked his dealer the Tasneem bought he's bought all these pictures of EPA Shall I buy it or not? EPA says M- I don't know. But Dmitry Rybolovlev says now feel something with his picture. Yves Bouvier Hammers Robert Simon and Alex parish down to a price of eighty million dollars, which is actually sixty, eight, million in cash and old. Picasso apparently worth twelve million God must be so annoying when you hope to get two, hundred million. Eighty. They were desperate to sell it twenty four hours later, Bouvier had sold it to Dmitri Ivanov live one hundred and twenty seven point five, million dollars very smart. So eventually let finds out, he's been overcharged offer the Salvator Mundi and around thirty five other paintings and they don't use another lawsuit against these are all lawsuits against bovi launches. Another lawsuit against Salve Abe's he claims were in on it and we're helping overcharge him I. mean those those seats have beginning of for years. Now have they eventually become known as the Bouvier affair with this art dealer facing criminal charges for money laundering and fraud in several countries via denies any wrongdoing and Monica has recently dismissed ribble of lives claim against him. So I imagine after all this real might not have such a good feeling about the Salvator Mundi anymore. When he told me that that he still loved art but he fell after this Salvator Mundi. Sorry. He couldn't really look at his paintings the same way again. And he started to put them on the market. The Salvator Mundi sold for three times. What he paid for it say he was the person he sold it through Christie's ruble of made the decision to consign the painting to Christie's and that brought us to lot nine bay when it goes to auction at Christie's a Christie's said that this is a genuine Leonardo Christie's pretend to. Catalog in a way based on the National Gallery's catalog and inverted commerce research into the Salvator Mundi that was in a way even on its own terms contradictory because as I said a bit at the beginning where it of says, probably in the collection of Francis, I probably brought over to Britain by Princess. Henrietta Maria who married shells I probably in the collection neutral probably in the. Shells a second anyway, and so it goes on. It starts the probably starts become indisputable. It's the world's most expensive painting. But you're not convinced that this as a genuine Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Roy now I'm hiding behind it might be, but we don't know yet. So I. I. Know that's a cop out because actually meant to say I think it's this or I think is that I think you know I think in the age of fake news and Post Truth, it's important to say no clear argument has been presented that this is a Leonardo Da Vinci but it might be I think is very unlikely to be Leonardo is just too weird. You know it's almost certainly a work by assistant that so badly damaged and so much of the face has been worn away. Somebody's damage part that the picture looks more Leonardo than it actually is after Mohammed bin Salman bought that painting disappeared from public view. It was reported that have been installed a have been salmon's your. The world's most expensive work of art is said to have resurfaced after its whereabouts unknown for eighteen months. Art Net Dot Com has Leonardo Davinci's salvator. Mundi on a super yacht owners by Saudi Crown Mohammad bin Salman the five hundred. Alex Parish Simon, and so the leonardus might be worried that this very valuable painting is bobbing around on a yacht somewhere. I think everyone will be very, very worried that if this painting was bobbing around on your, you turn one that Patia in a damn. INT- I. Mean I'm sure Mohammed bin Salman is really great. Air Conditioning on is your but still. I would question if that was a good idea. But know the yacht is only a theory. Nobody knows where this picture is. Right? Nobody knows my best guess is that it's in a lockup in. Switzerland in Geneva freeport. Have we ever gonNA say again could the public ever see Southam Mundi? Again, I, I'm not a prophet. Let me gaze into my crystal. Tell you what will happen in the future as regards Salvator Mundi just I might end with all my face I'm GONNA. Say I think we're not gonNA see this help to Mundi for another fifty years. K. Ben, thank you very much. Thank you very much. That Ben Lewis his book. The last Leonardo is available to buy now and is a very good read. We contacted Christie's about this episode and a spokesperson told us the attribution to Leonardo was established ten years prior to the sale by a panel of a dozen scholars head of its unveiling as part of the National Gallery Exhibition and was reconfirmed at the time of Sao. In two thousand seventeen. while. We recognize that this painting is a subject of enormous public opinion. No new discussion speculation since the twenty seventeen sale at Christie's caused us to revisit its position. They said they wouldn't comment on whether Mohammed bin Salman was the buyers the painting. We also contacted Sotheby's who didn't provide us with a statement. Today's episode was a huge team effort and pass three nearly as many homes as the Salvator Mundi it was produced by cheek as Elizabeth Casson, Hannah more and SOM- Colbert. Sound design was by Axel Cookie Ta. The executive producers, I feel made odds and Nicole Jackson. Will Be. Back tomorrow.

Leonardo Salvator Mundi Salvator Mundi Leonardo Salvator Mundi Leonardo Leonardo Christie Leonardo Da Vinci Leonardo Da Vinci Salvator Mundi Bin Salman Leonardo DA World Leonardo Da Vinci Salvator Mundi Exhibition Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Roy Robert Simon Mohammed Leonardo workshop Leonardo Viennese Salvador Mundi Chris
Celebrating Leonardo da Vinci

The Science Show

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Celebrating Leonardo da Vinci

"The show on Aren Pizzas of course come from Italy. And you'll be aware that the most famous Italian could well be. Leonardo Davinci died five hundred years ago. We end the celebrator a year with professor fiorenzo Galli from Millan. Who points to a final event next month to cap tributes to that artistic and scientific genius? He's the National Museum in Milan. Well it's the anniversary as we know how you celebrating it at your museum. First of all Lewis a new lab in which we can teach the engineer. Racial students likely now to work as painter the tradition one of our teeny talent renaissance in the second part of this lab Villanova Engineer. Who's a several machines you can open? You can work. We'll we've citizens threatening to understand the thinking of the now that mechanism how his drawings The way we had a very important exhibition of fifty two tradition historical models talking about Leonardo engineer and twenty nine friscos coming. I'm from churches now. Destroyed about given to assent to celebrate the arson signs and the third thing is a great and very important -portant exhibition in Rome at Squid Equity Nali as the President of China Republic during the three months celebrating Leonardo as a scientist before signs but last and the most important is certification of the new galleries. One thousand three hundred square meters. I in the central part of the museum that we are inside the comment of the sixteenth century in Milano with a new interactive and very interesting cultural and economical investment in the cocktail. Another the venture. That will be opened. The nine of December of the end of the year of CID did Abrasions. Now you said models now. Is it my impression on my wrong. I've seen the models. I saw them in Da Vinci itself where he used to live and I saw the models here in Sydney at the University of Technology Sydney when IBM brought them out. But did Leonardo ever see models off his drawings. We haven't any evidence about that about no not the US the drawing and emitted of study and and he used to walk around having his pocket. A Booklet Drawing Deacon notes trying to understand the things in natural and the works made made by other people in this renison very interesting period of life in Italy and so he draw those things existing in mead made by other forests Brunelleschi. That made a lot of works in Santa. Maria fury in Florence who's in using machines Sheen's still existing when Leonardo went and moved to Flores coming from Vinci Handy. Draw that trying to understand the mechanism and tried try to improve that with his idea. So our interpretation of the reality many many people he met and he worked with them thinking to who improved his knowledge. There have been books recently saying that he has not finished very much. And it only makes sense if you say hey that he was using it as a dialogue not as a finished work. He didn't finish in many works and he left few works when he moved from Florence to Milan. It was a fourteen eighty. Two was thirty years old he needed this pulsar. He need somebody working for war because You know in that appear in Italy. We had seventeen different states. Always fighting together and fighting for instance against France so to present himself to the duke looking talking to be employed there he wrote a letter to present his skills in ten points in the tenth point presenting also like a painter winter really. He presented himself like a military engineer to build. We pawns all the things needed by a powerful duke to fight against against the neighbors are somebody tried to invade them but they are. Now the hated the war. He produced several times his idea. That was our terrible. The thing for human beings he'll have nature and love animals and level the other people know but he had to earn a living. Now what about his anatomy because wonderful drawings wings of the body did he see corpses to DC two sections thirty. See what doctors did. How did he get inside the knowledge of Anatomy? You know that in the period of Italian renaissance began an idea that to the knowledge could not be just philosophy teary thinking but also touching observation experimentation. This is the reason why we think about Leonardo Science before signs close to one Hundred Years Before Leo People for instance to wanted to look at the the body human body likely walks. Houses skeleton can sustain it like for instance in architecture. And this anatomist is a the we buy we learn. Add The for instance could studies thaddeus Moscow's looking at death people. The Moscow of the feces end drawing the most important than the astonishing smile in the history of painting. Painting like for Monalisa. Yes extraordinary work. He was an absolute genius wasn't he yes I'm used to say was awarded a friend of mine. That is a very important geneticist. Nathalie though of the bunch that with a lot of effort somebody can try to be like Isaac Cottin. You can try to be advertised but nobody can try to be Leonardo Da Vinci. Yes do we. I understand really how that incredible genius grew up. How did he manage it? He spent the first part of his life without any mutation because he was an an legitimate son so he had not any formal education so he spends the first part of his life looking around the countryside looking at the animals looking at the reverse looking nature thinking trying to understand something by himself. This was the at the beginning of CNC who was a eight year old then. The family moved to Florence and when he was eight nine years old. The father. The okay you you hadn't occasions but you can work with hands so go to that boutique at Iraqs workshop of Andrea the rockets families. This culture is at least 'cause. The workshop of that is in that period was made by people working iron working with ceramics painting ask culture a great deal of skills needed to work in that Workshop and so he had a lot of different convergent opportunities to understand things and he was very clever and he talked with people and had a lot of opportunities to develop Phillip this geniality in his life and then he's to doubt especially as painter. That was the beginning of fortune in in Flores. orest professor Fiorenzo Galli from the National Museum of Science and Technology in Milan with a final tribute to Leonardo opening on the ninth of December.

Leonardo Florence Italy Leonardo Davinci engineer fiorenzo Galli Leonardo Da Vinci National Museum in Milan professor Milan Leonardo Science lab Villanova Engineer Sydney Milano Da Vinci US National Museum of Science and arson Santa France
Leonardo at the Louvre: the spectacular show and the Salvator Mundi no-show

The Art Newspaper Weekly

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Leonardo at the Louvre: the spectacular show and the Salvator Mundi no-show

"Bonhams auction is since seventeen ninety three to find out more visit bottoms dot com hello and welcome to the newspaper Puck I I am Ben Luke coasties in association the owner really wanted to open up this picture to properly scrutinized by by all specialists and frankly the public then show from one of its curator's and we'll look at the Mona Lisa in virtual reality but I so much of the expectation around the show has focused on the Salvator Mundi the painting that was lose by The pyramid with fountains playing in the background and we now know categorically that the Salvator Mundi for the moment is not in the Leeann and and they're hanging on either side of the Ganay Salvator Mundi which is an extremely good French curatorial gag you know because in the London benches next I M Pei's pyramid in the courtyard of the move to get all the latest News Ben we're sitting out side the doubters will do you end up with on your face because doesn't they so we'll play into them in in during mystery around this picture surely if they definitely ask for it and in fact there was a missing catalog number in the Louvre in the Louvers Leonardo Exhibition Catalog number one hundred fifty seven for it they wanted the Salvator Mundi emir exhibition and they seem to have made provision for two forms of catalog catalog with the painting and the catalog without they show the lube. What's your reaction to that yet killer word yet I mean I might sound quite tentative and confused when I it's no number one five seven I mean it's so exciting I mean nobody knows what what happened I mean nobody knows why Leonardo Exhibition in the National Gallery those two drawings are hanging on either side of the Saudi Salvator Mundi right so that that's really good sort of poked appeasing two and two together and making five or six in in different ways you know say it's quite confusing situation it is but what we know he's they definitely students well we have the answers to some but not all of these questions I caught up with Ben Lewis or through a book about the Salvator Mundi caught the last Leonardo on the stone like one five five and one five six the famous Windsor Preparatory drawings for the Salvator Mundi that everyone's seen it this rated whatever online and everywhere and there in the exhibition the questions you'll get you'll going to post me because it's a developing story and particularly know what's going on myself I didn't really know what's going on myself very well but and everyone I mean why would why why would the Saudis not agree to put that picture in the Louvre show because let's face it if they put the picture in the show right that four hundred fifty million dollars nobody's ever GonNa believe it's Autograph Leonardo Da Vinci doesn't I mean let's play devil's advocate for a moment could they could they be security is that Vance van louvers curator tried to have his cake and eat it and he tried to negotiate diplomatically as possible to get the Salvator Mundi live in this exhibition even after all the grand ceremony I think it's definitely a possibility that Salvator Mundi will show up and then Leonardo Exhibition in the next month or so yeah I mean Okay Christie's in New York in two thousand seventeen for four hundred fifty million dollars would it be in the show with the label say it was by Leonardo or Leonardo in studio or by one of his how I just somehow it must mustn't it like you said I mean why not I mean what what's what reason could the owner you published your book last Leonardo and since then you know the story has evolved and even since you came on the podcast last the stories of old so respond to his request because they were waiting for him to offer more that's my theory which is minding noses it could easily be wrong? So why should we rewind the bid the exhibition without actually promising to label it as an autograph Leonardo and therein lies the problem the Saudis ultimately probably didn't then they lend and they they they give it to the show to be properly looked at scrutinized need joy frankly you know my theory which is mine and nobody else's what you say the Saudis Oh one hundred percent sure now that the picture is owned by the Saudis more or less one hundred percent sure and the short story is in the Louvre Catalog one five five one six of these preparatory drawings the Salvator Mundi and there is no one five seven auto but actually the faces so damaged that affect you could come from centuries of damage in bad restoration and they just done these scientific tests on the Naples labeling coordinates what else but you know there comes a point where you know the show opens his picture still not there and somebody's going to whisper in his ear look at this picture isn't in the show well oil paintings at the same time in the studio more or less next to each other or whatever and then if you compare all three if there is an original or one that Leonardo had oh come on right so if there isn't a bad now what did the face originally looked like it may have looked nothing like the face that we're looking at now my much more like us days okay does that indicate that there might still be a possibility okay so it's the press few today it's the grand opening tomorrow it's still a possibility that the Salvator Mundi will out of Jam Padrino face or already Disisto face or saliva face who knows that's one point and then the other point in the catalog entry right secretly in Ardo story and I can't give away other people secret story I can only tell you mine I think we're going to be pretty sure the Saudis of the real owners in a couple of days picture the Salvator Mundi that's worth a billion the day after it's in the exhibition right and you know little old little old people like me we end up with loads of gone off as do we you know because fifteenth century from the Netherlands had glass or you know that is why drapery behind is not particularly refracted so the key thing about that us like the glasses in the last copy of the Last Supper and they're all academy it's a book standard glass or just I call the only ones in the second half of the of the oh I think it's a problem is eventally events the incredibly well written but somewhat circumspect catalogue entry for the Salvator Mundi and there's like a few bullet points we're GONNA be one hundred percent sure in a couple of days I count the trouble is everyone's go my friends you know all these great arts everyone's got their own elsewhere in that catalogue entry he says the face is really really damaged and that's the ultimate number the whole salvator problem is like you look at the face and you think that's US auto face at looks ages and then trying to explain away the fact why doesn't have major of refraction upside down reflections and all kinds of distortions in the drapery behind the reason it doesn't have all these distortions right it's because it's it was by so this book is out it's been out in the world and it's been hotly debated by Leonardo Scholars you've come under some attack haven't you catalogue entry is that there is a fudge right in the sense that he doesn't come down either side of the debate he he needed says it is a Leonardo back of really good pope from Vance I really like it but anyway Vance explained Vassiliou values is the curator Leonardo exhibition yet almost says the Saudi Salvatore's the original right because he's looking at the three of them the Naples one the Ganay and the Saudi and he said he thinks major point score is currently thinks the orb is made of glass right sorry Professor Martin Kim Not Rock Crystal not the Rock Crystal Bingo it says on the on the behalf of the you know because it's become such a phenomenon it's an it's a natural target it becomes you know as an illustration how tantalizing I got a sneaking suspicion when he was planning to hang it in the Louvre shows going to hang it just like that was just GonNa say Salvator Mundi and Autograph Leonardo perhaps we should conduct tests and all the documents all the scientific documentation and restoration documentation should be made public what could be more sensational than saying oh I discovered a Leonardo Da Vinci and a junk shop in New Orleans surely it's much less sensational to say I'm not sure if this is not say it's Leonardo workshop or just work show that right that's right I mean the pictures doesn't have doesn't have an author is just as Salvator Mundi more involvement and it would have to be the Saudi one look at it look through motto it's a whole different level of Marteau than the other two right but probe lame oh if the painting have not to put it in I mean imagine him holding out for ages thinking you know I'm GonNa wait till they absolutely promised me it's going to be on all by itself for the Leonardo Da Vinci thank you so much thank you very much it has now been made public last week Diane modesty neither restore uploaded this fantastic fantastic website documenting kinds of aspects of it could be other reasons why they're reluctant to I'm sure they can drive it drive it down the Schanzer Lazy and a tie in a tank on and bring it to the Louvre I mean that's no problem you know eighteen mostly focused on the restoration anyway and then and then a lot of the criticism it's just being open Lewis he's just journalist snare snare build up a convincing case at the Salvator Mundi the Saudi Salvator Mundi is an autograph Leonardo it might be but actually they're onto the fact you can use to argue that case very convincing about this momentous show vassal to begin with you very rarely get the chance to curate an exhibition of Leonardo Davinci's Word Alberto Monday in Rhode Island there are tiny traces of bid on it and if there are tiny traces of bid on that one and then must have once been bit of a bid on the Saudi salvator do all that stuff in the press it so sensational oh it's a sensational journalist you know and we we know where that's coming from Bentley and to which my responses the less I get the sense that despite your skepticism about this picture you were genuinely looking forward to actually seeing it in the flesh again learning yeah I was very much looking forward to seeing this hour so you know it's a shame it's not in the exhibition you know whatever whatever it is it's a really important picture it's a really amazing find an incredible achievement by Robert Simon and extraordinary featuring more than one hundred sixty paintings during sketchbooks manuscripts and sculptures by Leonardo he's four years and his followers it also includes new scientific Alex parish you know to find this pictures incredible achievement but Diane Modesty restore it wherever you think of the restoration and it's a great contribution to art history and I think ultimately that's that's very damning is that there aren't a lot of facts you know to present that there aren't a lot of facts that you can use windy and looking at it closely you know because I now know ten times more about Leonardo Da Vinci than I did when I saw it previously so yeah Louis is published by William Collins Twenty pounds in the UK and by Ballantine books in the US and Canada price twenty eight dollars now what about the show itself well prevent I've ever been to but we manage to steal away Vance on the Louvre one of the two curator of the exhibition with Louis Franck into a courtroom behind the exhibition to find out more analysis with infrared reflect Tucker Affi of every single one of Leonardo's autograph paintings I went to the press view at the Louvre earlier this week and as you can imagine it was the busiest only the tragedy for this painting is that it's been attributed not so much by connoisseurs as Baikonour sneers like a scientist an architect engineer and so it gives the impression that the painting was only one of you can still do some out some of the debates that that that have emerged from the fact that you you will because published Mesa the criticism has been oh doc so can you tell me the strategy behind this one and what in a way what you want to say with this very important moment strategy list and Working Leonardo Da Vinci with my colleague reform we discovered that we a lot of it has been written said tell me about that is based on the idea that the idea that he's he's become such a polymath in people's minds that in a way freedom of fluidity and his language can you tell me more about sure it was really very important for us to show these infrared photography because the if it is a good word for that is more that exhibition in the conclusion of a non work another when she started when I ride we are working is based on that new approach more objective approach and these scientific images gave us a lot of information a new kind of a new vision that she because we wanted to reaffirm that the importance of painting of the art of painting folio another in she and we wanted to for that great anniversary of Leon others this in France wanted to celebrate these with event a position more than paint it and what we discover thanks to recision did and also thanks to the scientists to be but seeing the infrared image helps people to understand the freer manner of painting then thinking rating the composition and that was that was one of the aim of exhibition we wanted to to focus it should work is an experience long experience and thanks to these scientific images we are able to understand in a good way tiffany investigation for each position we are able to propose a new disease on on the competition also table to understand in a better way the personality of the artist so these them dorothy are shown in addition no other interests and and maybe not the most important there was also something else often it is said that Leonardo for him it was more important to the painting and on the Saint John on the Saint John the Baptist on the Mona Lisa and many others Leonardo spent more time painting the word wings in the painting you can't see that when you see the painting in direct light but thanks infrared horrific dorothy you can see the for Steps Leonardo Da Vinci painted only a few paintings but he wanted to make only perfect paintings and he took a long time and to paint them and so don t tell me about that these infrared images the marvelous they dotted throughout the show as you say the all the paintings and what one sees tremendous in two thousand and six I started because we had to restore some paintings by that she santana bent the Benfield near Saint lightly in autos journey is happening in front of you and you begin with this really marvelous sculpture by the rookie Oh and around it these studies of drapery and you feel this season brush directly on the on the wood panel and we see him changing defying Tom Parts way that you conjure the man and the journey of the man because sometimes exhibitions can feel like a lecture in three dimensions this doesn't feel like that you feel we present the infrared roofing feet and near that we see several of his preparatory drawings and we understand how he reused these he's his painting is more sideline that you think it should be exactly what usually we present Leonardo da Vinci as a painter but not only the life during class exactly there is the model at the center of the room which is that one fool one of the masterpieces of the renaissance culture equality of Saint Thomas over near the ads around it you see all the pupils the preparatory joins paintings we should say after another that these one fool study of drapery online which are the first excise of Leonardo and he comes back to Florence for instance you show the connection between place and the person well in fact we have been teacher for three years that's he drawn directly we the what we call the cupboard she no black chalk n with a he's a pence so the the end of drawing you can see many changes and you have also an understanding of his betrayal technic one of the things I really loved about shows all times a figure it seem it's incredible it's impressive and it's a way to show that the free manner to paint but it also something through his life in in the different phases of his of his work and how place hugely affected the way he would work there's a shift when he arrives in Milan there's another flonaze Vinci at the end of the seventies beginning the Eighties Leonardo starts painting new way and when you the public is able to see another interesting with that these images it's a link between drawing and painting so the other Russian of the magic which in Milan in half of fourteen eighty s Leonardo needs to be done in a more precise to descend in which he tried to understand light and shadow so then you take us on that chronology and you a friend who you know he's movement in Italy doesn't correspond to his real changes of his manner of his tile so we propose public slightly different because in fact to my opinion but it's only my opinion is the study of another vincis drawings and paintings for example it's a way to for the public to see all the paintings of nother Vinci some travel for example the adoration of Maj we never asked for that painting was too fragile added to paint to donors and with a product we know several preparatory drawings which show a new way of drawing and only reproduce the external form of light but also at the international forum of Eliza what people had in mind but also stories done in Florence in eighty eighty one eighty two and the first works done in Milan in the eighties are really seeming are the vision of the rocks is search your was in the Veracruz Workshop single chapter we call it liberty and this is the beginning is in Florence at the end of the seventies the third chatter way nature and he starts that scientific investigation and all the field on all the nature geometry Maddie Maddie which is really the last supper the real maturity of Leonardo Da Vinci and then after that Saint Saint John the Baptist Battle of Jerry is to moment in your life and then to me opinion the last several Republicans exhibition we called it life because another weather I two all the the real life of of of nature and this takes take place in Milano so the about the middle of the nineties with the Last Supper how and why Leonardo decided to perfect to change not only the form of the composition with those meaning of the composition and sex was envision we the first change in no non life is influence the end of the seventies in seventy eight Leonardo has leaks optics anatomy everything because he wants to understand absolutely everything and so this is another all the same period so you see it's not our the division we propose of development is not linked with his exactly exactly the kind of technique of the shot of so the real changes in Leonardo's life are slightly Asian that's the traditional vision of Leonardo in Florence Lauren Manana then comeback in Florence Rome Milan Rome in France but what we propose. These vision is likely Virginia's this week we're looking at what must be the most hotly anticipated exhibition of the Year Leonardo Da Vinci at the Louvre in Paris a bit later we'll hear all about investigation which were done on all the paintings by that she eight that's fallen other than in the most important thing was painting the act of Ah Colorado on new another that she and I made these courses and we can say with these in the simple the Russian of a new way of painting also in a free row freer and manner so to our opinion we this is the first he's really interesting is the way that you looking to the followers in great debt and bought traffic for instance there's a range of works by him where he really rises as as an artist movement in Italy but more on what we see in his drawings and paintings now one of the aspects of the show workshop inevitably when we talk about the workshop there's been a lot of debate about the Salvator Mundi and unfortunately it's not here so you can't now put alongside other window moved to Florence and then me Lenexa he he's workshop change a little bit other kind of artists were around him People Appeal of Leonardo Da Vinci but you see this was the way the workshop was working in Milan in the ninety s but for example Alana though remained quiet classical he reproduce the traditional image of Jesus Christ Salvator Mundi with no expression ratty an expensive painting shore but clearly that Composition Leonardo invented probably at the beginning of the sixteenth century in Florence is for example a wonderful portrait of a young man from the Music Pushkin Pushkin Museum Moscow and he is clearly he was clearly the best open that it will the exhbition will open in a few days without a the painting it would have in a good opportunity to see mm-hmm assailant in two thousand seventeen were has not been definitively event so it remains eighteen so when the painting was still the property of the former owner and we still wanted the painting after its in the context of all these near the preparatory drawings of in Missouri that's life you know Salvador Mundi is with some scholars like Baheen for example who has I think is about the identity of some of his pupils ed by color so it's also a way to show that low another weather great master with a real workshop with good painters around him and how the Paints Salah and melody and that time they were mostly making copies very more precise copy of his paintings and we are proposal for some sometimes for attribution for example the musician and the Roseana is considered by some scholars to be not to buy another way the young Salah arrives at that time and still today call us do not agree about the old the bution in the exhibition we followed and in fact the most the best scholar at the best pupil seems to be trough you and you seem to be in the exhibition the Commission in that Commission Leonardo Strangely did not invent a new economical well position so if you WANNA send Leonardo you should look at them and Eliza he should Saint Saint John the Baptist it was works by Leonardo and the workshop and Staten we can't study at the public can't see but you didn't intend to bring it to Paris didn't he sure yes we ask all the painting in two thousand another most representative Ileana art what is Leonardo is the saints on the Batson everything is movement expression with Salvador Mundi it you see if it works and I think one of the greatest moment of insulation of these emission was when we we a crowning achievement. I'm sure of your work but I want to know about how you feel personally when you're in those spacey's putting those works on the woman it must be doc marrying them with tradition subjects and stones he was rewarded with emissions for political leaders who recognize the power petition of Japanese graphs from the Globals Day uh we'll be back to the moon in virtual reality after this I ever virtual reality experience all about its most famous masterpiece produced in partnership with HTC vibe Arts Mona Lisa beyond the glass takes us into the painting almost unreal to actually see it developing into a physical real thing sure and you know it's always a moment of truth will so because you about the experience a note winches Lahcen she's talking about the Last Supper Leonardo Great Wall painting in Milan Dominique I mean I want to know about your personal feelings when you show you say thirteen years you've been working on this exhibition it's we were absolutely it was a one of the greatest emotion I ever had and what was incredible that moment it was not you know it's still a great debate debate between the Followers of Da Vinci Milan at the beginning of the ninety s we know that Michael Delgiorno Bowl trophy wearing his studio only one of the five Leonardo paintings owned by the lose that is not in the show it has to be kept on view for visitors who aren't visiting the exhibition but right next the show the lupus created and the paintings by the that she will thank you so much to pleasure opinion of Japanese lacquer artists the nineteenth century master should be desertion ranks amongst the greatest. His career seismic changes that swept Japan with the introduction of Cooks Mona Lisa could never be in the exhibition of Leonardo Da Vinci so you had to do something on the Mona Lisa presume that was what inspired you to do the virtually tall reality we had I in mind lesson from Milano because we we have thought of the pension which you were picky about groupings gathering some specific drawings paintings of our culture and when you see them but are at the very first move when we were proposed by HTC to do an experience on the the armed enfold of of personality of less invention than macro journal and also to show devolution of Leonardo in your computer it looks great and you will will give liked to an ID but it's only when you put in south works is that the possibility of experience works of art so we we observe that we would need many many information and the world of Leonardo and Lisa Dini the woman who is the subject of the painting I spoke to Dominique Default Rayo director the interpretation and cultural programming department at the loop and with many different examination researches and whatever it's Monalisa so we said Okay Grady do it on Monalisa and the VR is not to get jet at all it's not only tool or technology could tool of whatever it's also something that gives and feelings but more the gods of the exhibit Shen they told US opens this incredible what we see in this country exactly exactly what we saw on the line and Sleet couldn't come because the wall itself and why it's quite you could go and at the two we have spent some weeks obviously but it's also something more something else I don't know executives say that and then we had the possibility of that we could get on lesson for different reasons so we say okay there is one work on which we are many many many things which is very important but also to explore why is it so important what's going on what's his behind the curtain minded international exhibitions and he became a revered name Japan one of the finest collections obsessions work hands entity pays exactly if I miss this so of course the MONALISA could not be with exhibition for for for many reasons and autism lucid a sharp stick to point palms dot com welcome back now the Mona Lisa is the the to put on the world the drip line on that first room and the day we put the the Greater Group of Sculpture I had in mind that's very of course interesting technology and John quite a smart technology and able to to a design new things new technology core things but I haven't in mind Tom that it could also be there was a lot to actually tell people about exactly that of a lot that people about of course and also something that it's interesting because using more that is also could be a way of experience the defending and also exploring the the the creation and the Chretien itself and that what happened in fact Bq is some of course Melissa is Nicole the issues and not only the issues regarding the bending it says our it was done while it was decided to be to be done or song of course very quickly we realized that we are to face different different questions different issues blurring new devices also Moniz and also to then thanks to the Vr to address many many exact colo of fits of the seat of whatever and our it was of course very interesting questions it was crucial Christians full the appraise that it's incredible why is is is people without any great knowledge on the another immediately so the relationship between the group Oh we at the time wherever where I sat it's for to do the Vr you need to get a lot of information in fact sighting from exactly how many times how much time but it doesn't matter were spent some some weeks thinking of green to lessen and it's an code it's something that move even in master work in the word it's more than a masterwork if I miss oh something you know it's a matter of course both as precise in terms of new technological devices possible but we wanted also to be as good as precise in terms of then of course it happens at at couldn't be within the exhibition will be great to go further but the first reason that we wanted to be summa came in the late sixties after centuries of looking inwards Japan with some methods to engage with the outside world -sition embrace techniques of Western exhibition to answer all the different questions and we have been discussing alert about on the air of the Mona Lisa is information and without a Bluef- so we need to be as close as possible of something that is maybe not the truth but as as how far more than only technological devices technological gadgets one is as I said before trying to be exquisite panel farmhouse Sonnen is this November as part of its masterpiece collection as director where she's seated and many many things like that and it was very interesting because doing so we have been close to two things and to think that inside the mind of the creation when we decide to to bend someone when someone is putting for you as an artist you have to decide deep because of that something that I was very much interested in to have been doing the same things that were that were used by the Oh you're making a painting in the round it's something very interesting because at the very the very first time when you are working on that academic bentos nineteenth century our to be as close as possible to reality without having the proof of the is right our being

Salvator Mundi Leonardo Autograph Leonardo Da Vinci Leonardo Exhibition Louvers Leonardo Exhibition Ca Salvator Mundi Ganay Salvator Mundi Saudi Salvator Mundi Leonardo Da Vinci Last Supper Leonardo Great Wal Leonardo Cooks Mona Lisa Da Vinci Milan Mona Lisa Ben Luke coasties New York Japan Virginia Milan
How to Be Smart Like Leonardo DaVinci

Living Legacy Leadership

00:00 sec | Last month

How to Be Smart Like Leonardo DaVinci

"Welcome to living legacy leadership where we explore, discover and share insights, tools and strategies for life well lived into elder hood. I'm your host Donna Kim Brand Author Speaker Legacy Strategy Coach, and creator of the concept living legacy where you choose to live life on your own terms while contributing to people, places and projects along your. Life, Journey. I believe that the life you live is the legacy you leave. Now the guests I bring to each week all address some unique aspect of learning leadership or legacy. This helps you raise your own game as a leader of business in life and also showcases some extraordinary people who exemplify living legacy leadership. At least once a month, I also offer a training session skill you and game change your thinking for your own application. So get your notebook ready or sharpen up your memory by tuning in your attention, and we'll dive right in. Well today folks is one of those game change your thinking days and we're gonNA be talking about how to be smart like Leonardo Da Vinci. I'm going to share with you the principles of learning used by Leonardo Davinci to be the polymath considered the number one genius in history according to most people. Accessing the insights and wisdom of my colleague Michael, Gallup who's author of the book how to think like Leonardo Davinci you too can take on Davinci's approach to observing and acting on life all around all around you to express your own brand of genius. So just to. Tell you again that the book how to think like Leonardo Da Vinci was written by a colleague of Mine Longtime Colleague I've known Michael Gelb for. Thirty thirty five years. We've waltzed around the country and multiple countries in the same circles working together for example, with Tony Buzen? WHO's the crater of mind mapping and in fact Gal was in England as a young upstart think early twenties or so think he was going to college is going to attending a course on the Alexander Technique which has to do with. Body Movement and Getting the most out of your physique and physiology. Anyway, he was in London for this. Many years ago now and he met up with Tony Beeson and In fact, they traded services so to speak so Tony Tony's taught Michael Mind Mapping and Michael. Talk. Tony Juggling. and. In fact, a little side story When Tony's book the Mind Mapping Book Reached Twenty Five Years those of US involved in the network and certain invited public were invited to Royal Albert. Hall. In London I was one of those my kids were all their husband was there and we. Made a Guinness Book of world, Records Record for the most people juggling at any one time and and same place. So we were doing this. At the Royal Albert Hall and I had been invited to juggle up on the stage, but I had to go down. To the floor because when I juggled I can't moving forward and they were afraid I would walk off the stage so. That was my little story about my being with Michael Gale Juggling Albert Hall in London Michael is also married now to the opera singer Deborah Domanski and He's also a practitioner of Kito and If you look Michael GELB DOT com, he has different interviews and programs and so on about. Creative thinking in general. But of course, Leonardo Da Vinci is his specialist. Subject. So Leonardo was born in fourteen, fifty two. So Couple of hundred? Years. Ago. and He of course is considered a polymath season artist although frankly you know what? He didn't actually paint that many pictures at least that if survived and and yet we know his work as some of the most famous art work in the world kind of interesting. From. A historical perspective he was pretty much known in his time. He has a he was patronized by a lot of the feudal lords and so on of the time and he moved around the Feudal Kingdoms in Italy at the time Florence. Milan Rome all these places as an inventor as someone who invented military weapons as an architect and urban designer. He designed canal systems he studied waves and wave action of water We know him for his drawing of Vitriol V and man, which is purports to show the perfect or divine proportions of human beings and how they interrelate to. Through things like the fifth series with a sacred geometry and so on we know he kept prolific notes in his notebooks with odd features like writing backwards. Some people say it was because he was dyslexic and we know that influence just learning styles and you're going to see here how some of his Principles of learning relate to the fact that he was dyslexic. But, whether that was the the sole reason he wrote that way isn't his books or there's also some speculation that actually. was trying to foil his competitors He didn't want them to be able to figure out things. He was still thinking through and working on and stealing his ideas and so he wrote in this dubious manner but it was a guy that is you'll see through the principles that we're GonNa talk about in a minute. Approached life quite differently than most of us he you know it. It's Leonardo Da Vinci meaning from Vinci He was an basically he had a he had a father. News fathered as illegitimate child but his father did stay with him for a while as a youngster until he was sent off to work as an apprentice in various art studios and and other other types of more bureaucratic institutions thankfully, grow was able to combine both artistic and. Technical skills in his future work and that that's part of how he developed his genius. Now, Leonardo actually lived through several. Pandemics he was born after the black plague which killed. They say they're not even sure somewhere between seventy five and two hundred million people died between thirteen, forty, seven and thirteen fifty, one, four year period of the black plague But as a result of having studied about the black plague and living through a plague himself when he was living in Milan, he actually designed buildings and even a city I mentioned he did sign with better sanitation and built in social distancing in terms of the actual structures and traffic flow such as it was with carts and walking and and just how the layout of the architectural and streetscape was so he Just took into account everything that was in his. environment. And paid attention to alternative perspective, which frankly opened himself up to creativity, and in fact, the black plague because there was so much devastation and required. So many changes in how people were living their lives. It said that that's what spawned the renaissance during which, of course, the Onoda was was a of and all the new inventions, all the new artistic upswing. and so on. But the other thing about Leonardo that a lot of people don't know about is how you know how he thought about things. He was very much into controlling your emotions by doing things like avoiding grievous moods as he said, and keep your mind cheerful. So he was sort of an early proponent of psycho neuro immunology because he knew that emotions. positive or negative were contagious. And, that your attitude could affect your immune system. So this was very advanced thinking for his time and played into a lot of the choices he made professionally but also personally. So, in the book, how to think like Leonardo Da Vinci Michael Gelb has based on his research, not only looking through the notebooks but reading ancillary writings of contemporaries Leonardo and paying attention to simultaneous renaissance kind of inventions in the scientific fields and the philosophical fields in the medical field and the religious fields everything that was surrounding the upswing of the Renaissance in Italy at least and much of Europe an overall. Gal put together seven principles that Leonardo. Put into play to live out his life in such a way in with such a fullness and a vast range of skills and Expressions of expertise that he is now labeled as I said, the number one genius across history as far as we know and as far as we look at him now. So it wasn't that Leonardo sat down and wrote these out as his principles something that Gelb himself has called and coalesced energized from his research and his observations and his love of Leonardo his favorite genius. So. Let's start with. A big one here and I'm just GonNa have some fun with you and talk in my worst. Italian. Accent. So one of the principles is. Kunio Sita. which is curiosity, of course. So Leonardo. And maybe you know going to hear me say a couple of times it might be related to his dyslexia. But the fact that. He his brain was word differently, and he couldn't always function in traditional ways. was. What prompted him always to be asking questions. He was just a curious person where we went whatever he did. He would ask questions what is this? How does it work What if we don't do this? What if we do that and so on and of course, he began keeping his notebooks and so that became a repository of of. Thoughts that he took to some conclusions by maybe inventing something or. By drawing something or by working with other masters like I said, he'd gone into different apprentice situations because he was. You know a kid on his own, pretty much in that though he had a your parents, but it was raised mostly. By his father who sent him away at around h ten or twelve, which was normal for those days to apprentice. So Cudi, Sita was a very big underpinning of Leonardo's approach to learning and self expression. He coupled that with another aspect. Mon.. But. Tony Demons ups only which translates literally demonstration. But what it really means is hands on by do things through experience. He was an experiential learner on once again probably because of his dyslexia where you know things that were written were too complicated he would. Do, his own experiments he would. Literally, put his hands into things and pay attention and observe in ways that went beyond what was available to anyone else at the time and you know they say that he he was able to lay silently underneath trees and burden s o on to the extent of Observing, and then sketching birds in flight and as they they left and came to the nest, he was able to capture in drawings the birds. Anatomy and the wing motion and so on. To such a precise degree that it looks like a photograph though he was able to capture the detail in. So the detail that it almost was as good as what might be considered a photograph nowadays. So This was a very big part of his upbringing. In the early work he was forced to do in the in the offices and then in the. Chamber's but he took advantage by using his brain, his powers of. Vacation to make Demonstra saone a very key pillar of how he learned and how he operated in the world. Another one. Since. Tony, this is where sensations maybe sensuality to a certain degree because he used all his senses. Once. Again, he asked questions about life being curious. He was working hands on and he noticed that it was through his senses of. Hearing and take and touching, and smelling, and especially seeing vision. That he was able to take in information and you know this is something that even current day educators seemed to forget the last time we use all senses in most. Learning situations is kindergarten. We have a lot of fun with collars and noise and music, and all kinds of sensory experiences in kindergarten, and then after that, it turns into black and white text in books and You pretty much have to make do with that you know with obviously expect exceptions now that we know about how how the brain learns and handles information, but in his day. That was You know that was how things went and he put his sensations, his senses to use especially in combining them in what's called sinister sinister Asia is the combining of the census. So this was a third pillar of Leonardo Davinci's approach to learning and observing and creating. So Cuneo Ta Demonstra theon since that Sioni and then let's move onto through model through motto and if you think about that word. Ma though it has the word fumes in it, which means smokey or hazy, and this is where Leonardo had the capability to deal with uncertainty with paradox. With complexity and then being able to take complexity and break it down into its simple parts. He also was tuned into using and paying attention to his intuition, which is part of that wholesome through Maputo in hazy when something just comes to you as an inkling or the kind of interesting angle on something, he would follow it. He would write about it in his notebooks. He would experiment and take things to the edge in terms of what might be possible for under in his day and age. So that's fool Monsanto. So we move on then to our fe she enza art, they Chee Enza with arts and sciences. So. As I mentioned earlier based on his upbringing and the kind of apprenticeship he was sort of thrust into as a kid preteen even, and then through his teenage years, he developed this whole sensibility that embraced both the logic and Sort of articulation and precision of science along with the aesthetics of the arts he was very much into beauty and he saw beauty as an antidote to stress. he was into aesthetics he himself and we're GONNA talk more about this in a minute was apparently a very handsome. Physique at a handsome physique was considered very handsome, but he's also very engaging conversationalist, and so he was often invited as a dinner guest. and. So you know he he was a very pleasant pleasing handsome person to have around. But you the deeper sense of that he you know have took a painting. He understood about colors about counterpoint that was aesthetically appealing. He knew about balancing the heart and the brain. So to speak even in the days when people used to think the brain was in your rear end. He knew they were separate and appeal to different parts of of one's psyche and so yes, as a painter he definitely played out the role of beauty. He also had this incredible ability to display perspective. Now, if you think about his artwork called the Last Supper, which was a fresco done on the wall of A monastery it's up on the wall at a height above eyesight. And if you recall the imagery, Jesus historic figure is holding his arms out and the the disciples are along the table at the so-called. Last Supper. And Apparently Leonardo was so good at perspective that he does he painted the arms and the the outstretched arms in the hands of. Jesus. So that when the monks would come into the dining hall in which this fresco was displayed, it looked like he was literally like plucking them and welcoming them in through the door because of how he used perspective and so they felt welcomed into the room. Now from close up, you might say Jesus Body looked out of proportion. But in fact, from the angle at which these monks were experiencing in that experiencing it in that environment, he had perfect sense of Perspective? Pretty. Cool Pretty Amazing Okay. Now, another of the lessons or skills that and principles that Leonardo would use according to Michael Gal is cor. Corporate. Not Get the Word Corp in there, which means body it has to physicality. So as I mentioned already Leonardo was actually a Very, handsome physical specimen apparently, and a very strong and the stories were abounding that he could bend horseshoes with his bare hands. Now whether that was true or not who knows maybe but he was a strong guy and well-balanced himself in his physique but also took really good care of his body health was very important to him. As I mentioned before he said, you need to be responsible for your own health not only physically in fact, he was a vegetarian which I didn't know before but then also understood about the impact of your mood and your attitude on your physical wellbeing. So Corporales. Ta. is where he would express physicality threw himself in his own body but also we know he appreciated the bodies of others around him and I am sure he built that into a lot of his inventions as well and then finally. The the seventh of the principles that Gallup has laid out as key to Leonardo's approach to thinking and learning and expressing his genius. was. Shown saone. Name, which is connection. Now. There's a famous quote by Leonardo that said that everything connects with everything else. And this is all about systems thinking, but also the Internet connection of one thing to another. So if you have a teenager for example or a staff member who is lacking in. Interest, in any topic or engagement in their schoolwork or their work projects or so on the the the trick is the key is to find something that connects the two. So when I was working a lot with young people particularly in England. And they were struggling with mathematics. We would use the example of playing pool or billiards and talk about the angles of shooting the ball. Well, they understood that they could get it. They knew they had to turn the Q.. certain direction to hit the ball at a certain place to make sure it went into pocket and then we could turn. That back and and talk about vectors and angles, and so on the impact and consequences, and so on of as as relates to mathematics. So and that's not my area of expertise. So I found that interesting. So that's a good way to find ways to connect that connect to something else, and that then will engender interest and engagement in any topic. So. Just to repeat the principles. That how to think like Leonardo Davinci according to Michael Gal by the book of the same name. Cuneo Sita curiosity demonstra own a demonstration or hands on since that Sione, which is using all your senses especially vision. Fool montel dealing with paradox uncertainty complexity, and using your intuition are they ends. including both as Fedex and beauty along with logic in your work in a balanced way with your heart and your mind or your brain. Corp byerly. Keep good care and one hundred percent responsibility for your health and physical strength and balance indicated by the true Vian Man, and then connects saone all about systems and how things connect and rebounding everything connects with everything else. So, just to finish off with Leonardo There's a quote that He said fix fix your course to a star and navigate any storm and he related this especially to feeling like your life had a. Purpose and we don't often hear about that in regards to Leonardo. So this is really an invitation to liberate your own creative power to unleash your own creative resilience, and then gift it all to yourself and to the world around you saw. Thanks Leonardo and thank you to you our listeners for being here with us do check out the archival shows on SOB radio network DOT COM also check into game your thinking dot Com and see what's going on over there in my world and thank you so much for being here today. We hope you'll join us next week and remember the life you live is the legacy you leave. bye-bye.

Leonardo Leonardo Davinci Leonardo Da Vinci Michael Gelb Leonardo Da Vinci Leonardo Davinci Tony Tony Michael Gelb England Cuneo Sita Tony Buzen London Italy Michael Gal Royal Albert Hall Donna Kim Davinci Michael Gale billiards Tony Juggling. Milan
The Beauty of Truth and the Secret to Thinking like Leonardo Da Vinci with Michael J. Gelb

What's Next! with Tiffani Bova

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

The Beauty of Truth and the Secret to Thinking like Leonardo Da Vinci with Michael J. Gelb

"Hi this is Tiffany Bo. Welcome to this week's what's next podcast. Odd cast with Michael Gelb years a luminary in the field of personal development and organizational development as well as executive coaching. He is a pioneer of creative thinking. He's written sixteen books on creativity and innovation included the international bestseller how to think like Leonardo Da Vinci another one of his books. Innovate like Edison was actually co authored with the Great Grand Niece of Thomas Edison himself and one of my favorites the art of connection in each of these books. He guides us to cultivate the skills we all need to deepen. Our relationships broaden our humanity and transform our lives no small feat welcome. Welcome to the PODCAST. Michael thank you so much great to be with you. Yes and I as everybody knows. I love to start my podcast off with with what I call bullish and bearish nothing too painful quick questions bullish bearish if you're against it and Like always I always ask ask for the one word but you guys are so smart you might want to dig into one of those answers. We'll try and hold it. So are you ready ready. All right the first I want bullish or bearish the more confused you are the more creative you become bullish. That was a softball I totally gave. That went to you all right all right. The next one having definitive answers and searching for definitive answers actually holds back back innovation. Bullish are right on the last one little fun. Those first two were sort of leading the horse to water. We're GONNA talk about that in a little bit but the last last one is a little more fun. The last one is do you think robots will ever become professional jugglers. The bullish excellent well. Let's just start with the fun one because people are going like where did that come from So maybe you can share with our listeners. Your juggling famous juggling history. Well yes I. I worked my way through graduate school. As has a professional juggler. And juggled with Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones juggled with Bob Dylan is part of Tours. They did and I'm probably the world's highest paid juggler because a book years ago called lessons from the art of Juggling and around another one called more balls than hands which is the technical definition of juggling. And I've over. The years taught groups obsessive in one case a thousand IBM engineers how to Juggle and use it as a metaphor for the process of keeping a number of things up in the air. Not Getting too to upset when you drop a ball make a mistake. I have people juggle in partners in teams so that they pick the balls up for one another so they can model teamwork. They have a fabulous fun time and we also take the task and we break down so we have them start with just one bulb to everybody. He gets a success. Experience and success builds confidence and confidence builds more success and the ironic thing about it. Is that what confidence really is is is the embrace of mistakes and failure because you know you can learn from them and keep the balls back up in the air. Well I think that's great great you know and I and I'd say what I love most about that is I am a visual. Listen learn read learner. It's just sort of the way that I learn. And so when someone gives me an exercise size like that where it's fun and engaging and memorable I feel like my learning my willingness to learn number one because I'm more engaged but my the sort of the end result is I always remember the experience and the lesson that I learned versus if you were sort of standing on stage talking about how to build better teams and how to embrace bracing failure in how to multitask. I'd be like is the paint done drying right but that kind of engagement and I'd say that it's probably really really well received people love it and his thing. I loved to have fun and I learned in a similar way. I like to have experiences. And then abstract lessons from them and share them with others a so that yes it comes to life so people people people love. When I started out doing this it was forty years ago? So I go into these corporate environments where everybody's wearing a jacket and time was pretty stiff and serious and I pull out the juggling balls get them to toss in the air as they take off the ties they'd start laughing and it brings out that the child like playful aspect which is our birthright of genius. Yeah and what's what's the message also for me here. Is You know for those of you listening. Where if you're running a team or your leader or manager keep this in mind right some crazy hobby you have that? There's a story to tie it back another a friend of mine. I've had on the show just Josh Link nor he's a jazz musician and so when I've seen him give keynotes he'll let go and find the local jazz musician. That either plays like a horn or a saxophone and he plays guitar and he's never met them and he invites them to come here. He pays them bites them to come for a one hour or quote unquote gig and it's not really about eight minutes on stage but it's about how he starts to play and then the other guy or girl is listening and starts riffing and how they rift if together and how it's a little off and then it gets better and better and better than you know forty five seconds or a minute in there just jamming and neither one had ever met before you know in how the music can bring people together and then everyone's having fun and so everyone remembers that so I think it's a great way to use You know some skill that you may have have to to tell a story that relates back to what we do every day a man I love. I love the the whole Jazz Metaphor and getting people bowl exposed to it. Because you can you hear the difference you experience it and I love what you just described when they're not quite in synch and not quite there and then all of a sudden there's that magical moment same thing actually happens juggling because we do partner juggling and you're tossing the ball is back and forth each other and at first you're focusing. Was He on catching the ball yourself. So you don't attend as much to what your party needs. But then you realize the secret is focused on tossing the ball to my partner partner and if my partner focuses on tossing the ball to me and we both make accurate tosses and then we get into a rhythm all of a sudden it just like got same jazz moment when it clicks. And it's seamless. Well you know that. That's fantastic. I love that story. I didn't know where the Juggler story was going to go. Wow but I like it thank you thank. You might go all right so so. Let's move on to the more serious stuff. I guess you know one of the. There's a couple reasons I really wanted to have you on the show and one is this how to think like Leonardo Davinci. I'm fascinated when you know someone like you write freely digs into. What can you learn from someone that so many of us in the world are familiar with their from an artistic standpoint? But what sort of inspired you to go down not path and and find ways to tie this back to obviously what you do for a living which is really helping companies in leaders and individuals perform better. Yes well my grandmother had an Italian grandmother. Grandma rose edge happened to be a painter and when I was about six or seven years old she told me about about Leonardo Da Vinci and he became one of my childhood heroes. Along with Superman. I remember when I realised superman was just just a comic book character but Leonardo was real so as my career evolved and teaching creative thinking and innovation into senior leaders around the world. I'm telling them stories about Leonardo and a certain point. I just thought this is. This is the ultimate archetype. The ultimate metaphor the supreme inspiration. He's the they call him the wool Mo- universality universality that's the universal human the person who represents our gifts talents. Our abilities are aspirations. The Supreme Renaissance icon. So it just occurred to me what what are his teachings to us. Did he leave guidance. In his notebooks to his students that I might be able to translate more specifically into practical advice that would be relevant to people now for their professional personal development so I read his notebooks over and over again I I went to the place where he was born. I went to the place where he died literally walked in his footsteps. I traveled the world to contemplate his works of Art I interviewed the Great Davinci scholars. And I really did start dreaming about him and from those dreams. These seven principals for thinking like Leonardo Da Vinci emerged and I gave a talk about it to a business group. They loved it and I thought. Hey maybe I should turn this into a book which was one of the best moves I ever made outside of your juggling career two things. Well so why don't you sort of share share the the set those seven principles and maybe a little back story on how each of them came to light through through the art. Sure so the first principle oh cool Ta Leonardo Da Vinci was probably the most curious person who ever lived and when you read as notebooks he records these questions. He has the kind of curiosity of trial. Except with the perspicacity and diligence. and the focus of a genius grownup so it just is our birthright Children are curious. They're asking questions all the talk with amazing passion and also with incredible energy and wild imagination but then they go to school and they start art to put the cap on their imagination. And they're told the answers are more important than asking questions and in the old days of the workplace when things were a little more bureaucratic and things weren't changing so quickly. You counted stability. We needed you to just execute Q.. Pretty much the same thing for a long period of time so curiosity wasn't necessarily valued as much as as it is today now. We need people who could be agile. Who can learn and change and grow who can learn? Learn how to learn and that'll begins with a renaissance Assads of this birthright so Leonardo is a supreme haute role model for that. And of course I backed that up in the book with lots of very practical l'exercise that people can do to experience that renaissance are. It's a curiosity which you know. I've had a number of people on that just absolutely you know live by that doc mantra right. It's like asking questions in maintaining this level of curiosity. so that's fantastic all right. So what's the second one. Okay and with the great thing too is when you when you have that curiosity and you feel free to then start to explore your imagination you get more energy so you have more energy as you get older. It's to be more curious and be more imaginative at the same time. We move onto the second principle Dima strategy on demonstrate things in your own experience so Leonardo also said an inventory and original thinker challenged original independent thinking Leonardo's time besides the strictures of the church was just. That information was hard to get. Now we live at a time of course where there's an overload of information so How do we cut through the Salami of spam to be genuine independent thinkers in the world? Today Will Leonardo again gives us practical legal advice. He says. Learn to think critically question your beliefs look important issues from multiple perspectives so with the senior leaders that that I coach helping them get away from being surrounded by yes men and yes women. That's part of that's part of why they need to pay favorite coach. They need to pay somebody to to not just feed them back their own positive publicity statement right on. I think that that's always the most difficult right. I think that that even comes down to when you're running a team like your team needs to be able to feel that they can come and give you real feedback without Out The risk of feeling like well. That's a career limiting move. If I walk into time if feedback right sometimes that outside Beato voice and and I I say this all the time look I can walk in and say the sky is blue. And you've been telling your boss or whomever right that the sky's been blue for six months and they didn't hear you and then I say the sky is blue quote unquote outsider. And they go. Oh my God skies right so there is a little value on that third that third party party voice if you will vary very critical which lead just the third principal sends that Siani which is to sharpen sharpen all your senses and this has obvious business implications you want your team to be sharp perspicacious present mindful paying being attention. The opposite is dull and more than just that obvious notion since the owners is also the secret of enjoying our lives. It's the ability to appreciate beauty. What are the questions? I have my clients meditate on and and guide them to find practical answers. How can I make my life more beautiful? How can I make life more beautiful wonderful for others and when we make life more beautiful where more joyful we discover discover happiness and fulfilment? We tend to be more creative. We tend to be more generous. People like to be around us. We we cultivate a much more enlivening quality of energy so for Leonardo beauty and creativity. We go together. But it's even more found in that. I was blessed when I lived in Santa Fe New Mexico to be friends with Murray Gilman the Nobel Noble laureate in physics who discovered quarks and Murray once told me at one of the dinners that we have regular dinners at my home. They're great a wine cells with various greatest minds murray was always a centerpiece. And we were looking at. What's what are the real keys to being grade? And burying stated well. It's quite interesting that interfere radical physics. A Theory Eerie. That is more beautiful is more likely to be true. So I'm I'm I am profoundly interested in the relationship relationship between beauty and truth and goodness and I believe that business can be organized around those principles cancels and it will thereby be more profitable and more creative all the way around right fourth earth principal motto swell motto so this relates to your early questions about being bullish or bearish I call it. Confusion endurance the big breakthrough. You have to go into the unknown. That means you have to give up what you currently. Thank you know. And this is one of the secrets of the most creative. The people the ability to embrace the unknown and smile like the Mona Lisa in the face of uncertainty and it's also critical for a leader because people people are looking to you and when things are are uncertain can you instill confidence when you don't even know you don't know what's going to happen yet either either. But can you be open. Can you be curious. Can you think for yourself. Can You be appreciative of beauty. In the midst of of uncertain circumstances. That's to me a missing link for many leaders and just also a wonderful skill for all of us as individual human beings to to make the most out of the challenging times in her life. It's almost like we. We use the term. I'm sure you've heard it right. The beginner's mind like that whole all kind of beginners mindset but often when I say that people go so you want me to forget everything I know and so I always qualify it by saying I actually want you to bring the things those those experiences with you but I want you to allow yourself enough space in being curious to acknowledge the fact that you don't always know the answer and so once you give yourself that space that beginner's mind you you start to kind of free up some time as as we asked in the bullish bearish right actually innovate. Yes and and I love your reference to the beginner's mind because that's what we're born with that's cool atop so yes I know this but what else is available for me here. What happened? I thought of yet your Thomas. Edison always ask people in his In his his laboratory well. What if there's a better way so constant focus on yes that's wonderful? And what else is there for us to learn so it could. US that other question about certainty and so on and it is yes and let's explore further So that were were bringing that Kumasi todd to deeper deeper deeper levels were not afraid of the uncertainty. We Brit embrace it. We smile like Mona Lisa. We wake up at four o'clock in the morning with some Aha insight we write it down in our DAVINCI notebook. And then we have an environment in our workplace that we've cultivated where we're free to share our off the wall L. wacky crazy ideas and that creates more. Fun Creates more alignment in the team but of course ultimately we have to translate these wonderful ideas in this beauty truth and goodness into practice. So we apply the fifth principle ARTETA. Cheyenne's the ends where we balance our artistic intuitive inspirations with scientific planning metrics tricks and logic and analysis and this this harmony is one of the keys to high performance. It's really at all levels in all kinds of endeavors. Is We balance our inspiration. Our imagination and artistic sharing being with our focus on results with our analysis with our peak and most people and many teams are better at one of those things the other right right in part by people love Leonardo is. He's the ultimate role model for the integration of art and science logic imagination but then to actually execute and make it happen. We need energy energy. That's the six principal corporales Ta Balance Your Body and your mind so I share with my clients sir. My own just forty plus years of exploring how to optimize an integrate the energy of mind and embody and by friend and colleague professor. Jim Clawson and I taught a seminar at University of Virginia. Virginia's Darden Graduate School of business for many years called leading innovation. And the first line we'd always share with. The students is the first line of one of Jim's books and it is. This leadership is about managing energy. I in yourself and men and others and managing energy is what the six principals support thinking like. Leonardo is all about the seventh principle. See on everything connects to everything else. The assistant GM sinker. Have the big picture. What your vision? What's your mission? What are your values? What are your strategy? What are your goals? What are your tactics? And then how are you supporting those with the way you recruit and hire people with the way you train and develop them with the way you give them incentives and compensation good with the overall culture that you create so one of the challenges of leadership is to be able to look at and to consider until care for and meet more and more needs of different constituents. The people in you're in your organization the clients or customers you serve vendors you partner with the shareholders to whom you for whom you generate tremendous return communities in which you live and the planet on which this all happens. Well was that seven to hit seven. Yeah yeah all right so now we say right if which I just I love the whole interconnectedness of each of those kind of like. They're building blocks on each other. I'm making an assumption here right. You can't sort of pull one out and get really good at it and forget the rest thank you. Yes I love when people get that. This is a system each principles important but the order of the principles is not accidental. Bill and and the order of the exercises in the book. I mean I invite readers in the beginning of the biggest. If you WANNA skip around go ahead and just start wherever you're most drawn and you can do it. All non linearity but there is a definite progression from each principal and from each exercise and one builds on the other and create create. Something that's way more than the sum of its parts. And so what you know what I guess. What are the one or two things if if someone goes wow? I really like besides three the book. Obviously because as you said in each chapter you've got sort of exercises in ways to step them through but if there was a couple of things you'd say this is what you know. This is where I I suggest you begin when you're on this journey yes does the simplest most immediate place to begin. End This's Leonardo talking. I'm just being his representative here. Because he tells his students have a little notebook. Carry with you wherever you go and right your ideas down now. That would be powerful advice. Just from Leonardo probably history's greatest genius but upped. What if I told you that? Thomas Edison insisted that all of the people who worked in his laboratory. Did the same thing and Marie Curie did the same thing and so did Murray Gelman and so did Darwin and so just about every other great genius in human history. So most people get their breakthrough ideas ideas for o'clock in the morning driving the car taking a shower in the bath out in nature. The Difference Between Geniuses says in most people is genius. Write them down right right. I find I have like my best ideas and this goes back to this concept that you were saying this kind of noise coming from us from all directions when I'm at my most quiet so sometimes sometimes it's like I'm in the shower and they're always joking like I need to have a notepad in eerie because it's no one's bothering me you know besides you're wasting water if you start Thinking in the shower so we got to figure out how to take shorter showers while still thinking but driving flying is really good. Time for me Anything and like that and capturing and so I actually text message myself. I things like that right and I do the same thing now. Because was unusually writing a new book. And when I texted to myself and then I just put it right into the manuscript that I'm working on so I do the same. Thank you and I'm not. I'm not writing a second one yet. I feel like my only child is. She's good right now but but maybe soon but not right right now but My problem has been that. I used to handwrite my notes and I kept one book and the book I I actually ordered the books for about ten years like I just had these. You know books that I was sitting in meetings or an executive meeting or when I was working at Gartner and I was consulting. You know you get these great ideas or someone says something and you want to capture at night have them all and then I realized that never went back to them and so when I was writing my book I was like you know what I should do is just go grab that stack of books and Inulin inspire me to remember things. I thought were really good. And it. And it did but really digitizing that I think is something I have to figure out right because just writing down the notes I mean I think that helps you remember things because writing is such so much easier but you then you have to be able and be willing to go back and say okay. What was that? What was that lesson or even even like this? PODCAST is an example. You're listening to it. You're probably driving or on the treadmill or you're you're doing something you may not have paper and then you go. I want to go back to that. What what was that? I want to listen to it again. It was really good and so finding a way to capture those moments of of peace where you can really get take advantage of the stillness and and really percolate on things like this right with two things that are happening and this is for most people. So when you're by yourself when you're quiet your brain shifts from the more active Beta state. It's probably in at work to the slower or Alpha or even Feta's state if you're resting and better in the bat which is associated with breakthrough ideas. The other thing is most people. Do get their best ideas when they're by themselves because there's no fear of embarrassment and we feel freer and so then yes. I love what you share it. Because it's it's indicative of important thing for everyone to understand is find your own best way to do this fine the way that works for you. The universal missile wisdom is record your ideas and be sensitive to where you are when you get your best ideas and you may need to spend more time. I'm they're if it's not the shower. Take a walk in the park meditate a spend a notebook next year to your bed if you get your best ideas when you're waking up in the early morning and then the other thing to come back to your your question about what is real practical takeaways for the people from thinking. Leonardo another one is to learn. Mind mapping when I do teach it in the book but it's it's ubiquitous. These days I worked for many years with Tony Zan. The originator of mind mapping Tony was inspired to create mind. Mapping by his the study of the notebooks of Leonardo Davinci and Thomas Edison and a mind map is a way of expressing your ideas in pictures and images images along with key words. It's more organic. It's non linear it. Integrates Art and science. It's a practical methodology for really thinking thinking more likely in order to Vinci. Well this is just been fantastic. I could just keep going like we didn't even get to the you know the the the art of connection because this was this was great. But you know I know we only have a couple of minutes left but you can't really give justice to have connection but I just got the pivot quickly because I think through all this that I am a firm believer that sort of business and success and personal growth and all that is a team sport and so you know. Ultimately the connection has a foundation in building these relationships to help you be more successful so with that what. What would you you know if you had to give your elevator pitch on on such a fantastic book? I know that's difficult. I bet you it's all right. Go because you're so right years of writing about Davinci and Edison and how to be more creative working with clients in the real world. I discovered that you. It's easy to generate the creative idea. It's hard to get by. It's hard to get that collaboration. It's hard it to get people to align around a big change or transformation so the motto of the Book The Art of connection and a great great takeaway the potentially life changing. I put it in Latin. So people really will get that it's important and it is conduct Jerry. A salvage which means connect be four solve it so rather than going into the transaction action rather than focusing on the results in the performance always focused first on the human beings with whom you are interacting interacting connect with those humans. Look for the soul. Fullness within that person doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing you don't have the a hot tub it can happen in a nanosecond really but be fully present to their humanness. A magical thing happens when you do that. First of all your own humanness is enlivened. Second of all you are now on the path to report to connection and when people are in rapport when they're connect connected solutions. Find You well. That's just fantastic. I might have to have you come back to keep talking about that that one so now I feel like I've cheated the listeners. I apologize you know. Don't send me notes some. I'm aware that would just to get in good. And and now now we gotta go but you know Michael. This is just been fantastic. I just I'm so thrilled that I got exposed to your work and your passionate around everything that you've been doing for for the last forty years. I just think it's fantastic so I just WanNa personally thank you for for spending this time and sharing your wisdom with our listeners. Here at what's what's it's next but before I let you go if you could have dinner with anybody alive or deceased. Who would it be? Well obviously Leonardo I was gonna say that's has a softball to yes pretty easy one. Would that be the only person you think you think that you could keep it going. I'll I'll tell you I have a bunch of other. People have Jerry Seinfeld L. K.. Because I am assigned velden. I do feel that. He's the modern Shakespeare. He said that are just laughing off but so many life lessons are in that. Show and I- i- humor is one of my the highest values. When before I go to sleep at night I actually I watch videos of people who I probably would want to have dinner with? And they're either their spiritual masters geniuses of one sort or another or comedians. There you go. Yeah well thank you so much Michael and so how can people keep in touch with all of your fantastic work thanks for asking. I'll give you two websites sites if people WANNA learn more about how to think like Leonardo the art of connection all my books and my speaking work and my seminars they can go to Michael Michael. GELB DOT COM that's G. E. L. B. and if people are interested in my work as an executive leadership coach I destined to please go to healing healing leader Dot Com. That's healing leader dot com fantastic again. Thank you so much Michael for joining us today on the. What's next podcast? I appreciate your time and I appreciate you thank you so much. Thank you on that. Have you at that dinner to. I better be invited. Our all right thank you. What a great conversation I coulda kept talking to Michael? I feel like I completely short-changed you on not spending enough time on the art of connection but it just means go out and get the book. I loved his concepts around keeping multiple balls in the air and how we can solve those problems really really quickly that thinking about competence is the ability to embrace failure and the last one is just maintaining the curiosity of a child. The focus of a grown-up. I thought that was just a really great quote which I'm going to use a and again so I hope you enjoyed the latest of what's next expunged cast with Michael Gelb. Please don't forget to subscribe all of me online. Leave some feedback always enjoy hearing from you once again. Thank you for spending some time with me today on the. What's next podcast?

Leonardo Thomas Edison Leonardo Da Vinci principal partner Leonardo Davinci Michael Michael executive softball Michael Gelb Mona Lisa Ta Leonardo Da Vinci Edison Jerry Seinfeld Mick Jagger Bob Dylan Tiffany Bo IBM Great Davinci scholars I
1871: Michael Gelb: Entrepreneurial Secrets of Leonardo Da Vinci

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1871: Michael Gelb: Entrepreneurial Secrets of Leonardo Da Vinci

"Welcome to the conscious millionaire show episode number 18 71. Hi. I'm Michael Gelb and on today's show. I will be speaking about the entrepreneurial secrets of Leonardo DaVinci. Welcome to conscious millionaire. The number one show for conscious entrepreneurs and CEOs on a mission to build a highly profitable business that makes a positive impact on each episode discover how to make bigger money create a bigger impact and live a bigger lives. You're listening to the conscious meaner Network her by over twelve million listeners in 190 countries. Now join your host JV Crum the 3rd, the conscious millionaire Mentor Master NLP coach speaker and author of the number one international best-seller conscious millionaire grow your business by making a difference. This is JV. And if you're listening to the conscious millionaire show, I believe it's because you want to Achieve Financial Freedom by making a big difference. That's why I've created a New Jersey audio for you. It's the born to make millions empowerment audio and it's free to you today as my listener. Get your born to make millions audio right now, Go to conscious millionaire.com forward slash make millions again. Go to conscious millionaire.com forward slash make millions. Hi, this is JV and I'm so excited that you joined me and I want to remind you this isn't just a podcast and and syndicated radio show. It's an entrepreneurial training for you to help you build a high-profit business makes a positive impact. You know, I have a real treat have an incredible guests for you. Help me welcome hate is the author of 70 books including the international bestseller wage. I think like Leonardo da Vinci his books have sold more than 1 million copies and he's a senior fellow at the center of humanistic management the cobelli School of Business Office. He serves as an executive leadership coach and consultant for high performers. Yes. My guest today is Michael Jack Michael. Welcome to the show. Great to be with you. Thanks. How bout you know, I want you to remember, it's Leonardo da Vinci. We're going to be talking about Leonardo da Vinci and you and I were discussing right before we went to a recording that I was in Berlin and I saw an exhibition of his drawing the new one up me twenty Times by saying all the exhibitions that you had been and including at the uffizi gallery, which I've been to in Florence. I happen to Love Florence pinche. I didn't bring that up cuz did you go to the restaurant piccioni? Yes, I did and folks there is another pensioni in case you're in Tokyo. They have one as well. But here's what's most important job. It is the number one restaurant and has the largest Wine Cellar of any restaurant in Italy and I held the distinction because I went there and as you know, I was looking at the menu and I was very happy. I'd had a couple of glasses of wine before I got there because I started translating translating it realized there wasn't an appetizer for under $100 and write down the the waiter went by and I said to myself young man. You're going to be spending some money tonight, you might as well enjoy it and enjoy it I did cuz I stayed for 4 hours cuz I believe in long dining experiences and I was the last Patron in the restaurant so they invited me to a wine cellar tour cuz they were all because after everybody left and you know how stayed it's almost like a French restaurant. Then I would not real conversations with all the waiters and nobody else even acknowledge. They were they were standing there. So they invited me to The Wine Cellar then they took me to their private gapo, you know, drop a room and then this I walk There was a camera to film it all everybody who worked in the restaurant all the waiters. Everybody lined up and shook my hand as I left the restaurant. It's a magical moment. I'll always remember cuz what's the likelihood that's going to happen again, right? That's a magical place. Yes. And actually I actually went there for the first time in Nineteen Ninety Four. I gave the very first Public Presentation about how to think like Leonardo DaVinci at a Waipio University in Florence wage. And the great thing about these Waipio universities is it have all these resources and they take you around to all of the greatest art Treasures with the professor who wrote the song about whatever it is you're seeing and there's something that happens in Florence. They call it the stendhal effect where you reach a certain point where you just can't take any more Exquisite art or off. Architecture and there was a certain point we're getting ready to go on this bus to take us to get another Museum and I just thought let's go to a different kind of art gallery. Let's go to the inoteca, right and and I did a thing that I've learned to do as an improviser. I walked to the nearest five star hotel. I went up to the concierge invested to make me a reservation even though it wasn't staying there. He called up he got us in we showed up and remembered the thing. I remember the most is reading the message you and they had these you could order the wine separately and that would be wildly expensive but then they had deals where you could choose from these young French Asha Breeze for example, and then you could choose from this group of barolos and you could choose from this group of brunellos, right? And I thought these are fabulous wines and the overall project. Four person was not as outrageous as the individual bottle. So I said great I'll have this this this and this and I thought you get a glass of each for that price. Well, no, they give you the whole panel as much as you can drink. So my guests and I drank the better part of four bottles of Exquisite wine over the course of those four hours off and my most vivid memory the pink tablecloths the very formal group of people there who look like counts and countesses and so on and so forth, right and they're just like key moments. I remember saying to the person I was with Do you think we can get up and walk out without falling? I remember that because as I followed that up by learning while I was in the process of learning wine and collected 1100 very carefully curated bottles of wine, and and I remember distinctively because I'd never spent that much one of my glasses of wine was $100. Right and I'm like going what makes it worth $100 now since then, I've got a lot of money on the line, but I also had my first as long as we were talking about wines. My phone number Super Tuscan Tignanello, which is a fabulous wine really incredible wine, and I love my brunellas and Source folks will get through with wines and just a moment, but I used to have cases of found a cob and I described now the, if you've had valdicava, I described it as drinking from God's veins. Because this this is heaven on Earth. Well, it's so great that you we share this passion because wine and genius go together wine was the beverage of the Greek Symposium that inspired the birth of Western philosophy the Quest for truth beauty and goodness. Wine was what brought together the Medici Leonardo Michelangelo Galileo and they created the Renaissance The Rebirth of the age Greek genius and then Thomas Jefferson John Adams George Washington all got together shared. The finest wines, they could and came up with this idea of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Ben Franklin said wine is proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy and over the years when I teach a day for business people about how to think like Leonardo in the evening. We do a wine dinner. And we do a comparative tasting of Fine Wines and we get people to describe the wines in poetic terms and they wind up writing remarkable poetry month. And what happens is people see that the person over there in accounting are the IT person is way more creative than they they may have imagined because of wine brings out in the right dosage and especially if it's something great like the wines you were mentioning. It's art that you can drink, you know and inspires people. So I actually took another book which is called wine-drinking for inspired thinking also known as how to drink like Leonardo da Vinci so so long folks. We've now talked a lot about wine, but now we're going to talk about the entrepreneurial Secrets other than drinking of Leonardo da Vinci. So let's let's drop into that. What are some home? Things you've discovered in terms of Leonardo's genius that relates to entrepreneurial ism. I abstracted seven principles for thinking like Leonardo DaVinci from a very careful reading of his notebooks and I was looking for the advice that he gives his students on how to be creative and by definition an entrepreneur is a Creator you want to create wealth you want to create value for others you want to make a difference if you're a conscious millionaire and aspiring millionaire, you're wanting to create value have positive social impact and generate wild abundance so we can all apply these seven principles to our endeavors and the first Julio sitar never-ending curiosity in our conversation before we turned on the official now. We're really talking about technology. We were discussing how we're both students lifelong students. We live the questions as the poet rilke said and the questions you ask every day determine the quality of your life. So look at the questions you ask every day and make sure that those questions you want to be a conscious millionaire your questions every day have to focus off the Consciousness and the millions and how do you integrate those two because the dominant Paradigm in our world still is that they're separate? So we're asking new questions about how do we create abundance? How do we create impact how do we create goodness and human flourishing while generating wild returns and profit right? And at that is the essence of conscious millionaire. It's bringing the two together. And so let's let's delve through to make sure that we get through all seven of these principles second one the most strategy only think for yourself be an independent thinker be a critical thinker. So in business the way this really applies is make sure you have a team of people that will look at things from different points of view. We tend as a natural human tendency to human Frailty to just surround ourselves with people who agree with us who have the same training in the same background went to the same kind of University. Right? And therefore have the same blind spots that we do exactly and I want to Champion that because I think in every area of life is critical to have people who literally have different filters and you know, if you've listened for a long time, I don't talk about religion or politics. This is going to be my entire political comment probably for a couple of years now is that it's bizarre to me that in the realm of politics. We are so polarized we don't want anybody at the table who doesn't think like us an edge. It's only by having different people who think differently that we can come to our best conclusions and our best insights and our best projects and the best way to organize Society, but number three Number three cents at Sea on a sense. That's the only sharpen your senses if you want to be creative surround yourself with beauty. This is the wisdom of Plato. The Renaissance is The Rebirth of that ancient Greek wisdom. Leonardo's the Supreme embodiment of this ideal. What does that mean translate that into your workplace if you're working from home now as many of us obviously are and will be for awhile make that environment as beautiful and inspiring and uplifting as you can and ask yourself the question everyday, how can I make the world more beautiful for the people I interact with so I want to I want to add here cuz it's something I'm doing and right now I'm long over I have a big face of very tall red gladiolas and I have another vase on another desk to have three desks. That's all these beautiful flowers and every week. I am indulging and the Art of choosing flowers to bring Beauty and inspiration into my environment because it actually uplifts me and and and brings my Consciousness up time does Beauty raises Consciousness Beauty awakens us you people just we walk every day. We live near the Rockefeller preserve we walk through the woods and dead. Multiple times and every what we just stopped at the incredible beauty of the sky or The Meadows or the trees or a hawk my wife. We went we walk my my wife found the feather of a of a baby hawk and the texture of it the site of it. It's so beautiful. It's so inspiring Leonardo said nurture your soul with beauty to nurture your creativity. And the next principal the fourth principle full Matos model. It's the it's the term that our critics coined to refer to the hazy mysterious quality in Leonardo's paintings like Mona Lisa, of course and what it represents is the most distinguishing characteristic of Highly creative entrepreneurs, which is our ability to smile in the face of uncertainty to recognize that ambiguity change and challenge our opportunities. Well, I have to tell you folks. We've got a special opportunity for you. We're going to talk about in just a moment. But if this is wedding your appetite, I'm certain that you're going to like what we have for you, and I got to tell you Michael somehow somewhere. We gotta get together and eat and drink together only involved the Cava and I'll bring the car miliano that we actually open up tonight. We have a little bit left but I bought I bought it. I bought all they had at the local wine stores now, hahaha. So principal principal number five armed Ed Sheeran's artificial balance Art and Science what that means for us is use your whole brain. Check the data check the details check the analytics use your imagination be a Visionary have the big picture all too often. What what undermines and entrepreneurs they're trying to do everything all data-driven. It's all out on Linux. No vision, no big picture or they're dreamers and they're big pictures, but they go broke cuz they didn't have a good account. We have to do both if we want to be successful Leonardo's an amazing role model and what is coming up next folks. It's like it's like we're having a smorgasbord. It's like a wonderful find dinner. That's what I feel like. The sixth principle corper Alita balance body and mind so everyone's familiar with Leonardo's Vitruvian Man. Which is used more than five hundred years after he drew it as a sketch as an illustration for his friends book on Divine proportion how the human organism is rejection of the harmony of the whole universe. It resonates globally as a symbol of Health balance, wholeness. So a minute link for a lot of people he want to be a conscious millionaire. It's going to take a lot of energy. You have to learn to balance your energy to strengthen to come off your energy. This has been a The passion of mine throughout my career is how do we Revitalize ourselves? What are the most effective practices for integrating Body Mind and Spirit and optimizing o r g for more than ten years. I used to teach a class called leading Innovation at the University of Virginia Darden business school and my co Professor was Professor Jim Ross and who wrote a fabulous book called level three leadership. And the first line of that book is leadership is about managing energy first in yourself off and then in others, but to manage your energy you need corporate Alita. Well, and I'm just going to throw in there where we're going to talk about my mother's side of the family on my father's side. We came over and 1657 from Amsterdam to what was New Amsterdam. Actually Long Island before it became New York and I've got a hundred and fifteen page document with all the genealogy, but on my mother's side. I am a direct descendant and have a piece of cut glass that Edmund Randolph the first governor of Virginia law that came down through my grandmother's the the the maternal side of that but folks we digress the static principle and then we're going to check but I got to tell you we have an incredible opportunity coming up for you. You've got to stay until after the break can't tell you about it until then but what's the seventh principle Michael seven principal is Cornett c on it. everything connects to everything else Leonardo is one of the first systems thinkers. We have to learn to look at the whole system all the stakeholders of our Enterprise how to deliver value not just with customers is a mistake entrepreneurs make is let's focus on the customer know Focus first on the people who are going to serve the customers on your own people focus on your communities focus on your vendors, of course focus on your customers focus on your investors see the whole picture of your Enterprise think through all of the stakeholders and how you're going to uplift those stakeholders and and you'll you'll be more successful than you might have even imagined was possible. So folks if this has what if your appetite so to say I'm wet now you gotta stay tuned. We'll be right back after this break. I want to thank you for doing your part during this pandemic and financially challenging time using your talents to help others is the greatest gift you can bring forth now. My heartfelt gratitude goes out to you and to help you grow your business. My team of coaches are here to provide you with a complimentary accelerate session to apply go to conscious millionaire.com forward slash that's conscious millionaire.com forward slash accelerate. Welcome back. This is Jamie from the third host of the conscious millionaire show. I'm here with our featured guest Michael gelk author of the book how to think like Leonardo da Vinci and we've been discussing a entrepreneurial secrets of Leonardo DaVinci and we have a very special discussion with you we want to have right now because Michael has a new program if you like this if you've just started and the new program is how to think like Leonardo and here's the special link where you can go find out about it. It's conscious millionaire. Com forward slash think like Leonardo that's conscious millionaire.com forward slash think like Leonardo and what all you know, just kind of an introduction to what's in that course that's going to really help entrepreneurs take their businesses to another level be more conscious about how they can make an impact. The world and also become more financially successful. What's in the course? It is the course that I've been teaching people around the world that I do for Waipio companies for fortune five hundred companies for senior executive teams. Take them away. We used to take him away for five days. Now, we recently we had to condense it into three days and two days and now we're doing lots of them on am I right? So what I've done is is I realize and and rightly. So in case you're not familiar with that is Young Presidents organization. Yes company presidents globally wage, so I said well look I've written this book people love it. They read it. But the book is you you're on your own. How can I give people the experience of being in the room having this high-level oftentimes sea-level opportunity to go deep into the application of The DaVinci principles to their Enterprise. So we've created this online. It's an interactive course with Earth. Just I can it's the most passionate intense cool thing. I've had the chance to do. We got a world-class team of videographers director. We set up a beautiful DaVinci studio. And then we really put how do we translate this into the medium of video? So that people can do the class in their home in their office on their computer even on their device. You can get the full experience of our class that we do live and have done live around the world song. That's the idea is to live the experience of The DaVinci principles. We take you through the explorations the practices to really embody these principles and by the way, not just for your business, but for your whole life to be a happier more fulfilled person my favorite thing that anybody ever said about the book was a father who wrote to me and said this book gave Everything I always wanted to teach my children but didn't have the words to say and those same principles apply equally to your business to anything. You want to create the achieve Any Dream you want to manifest Leonardo is one of History's Greatest mentors in this course brings him to life for you. So again, that link is conscious millionaire.com forward slash think like Leonardo. It's conscious millionaire, think like Leonardo and if for any reason you're driving jogging do anything where you can't write that down, you know that the headquarters for everything related to the conscious millionaire show is yes at conscious millionaire show off., just scroll down to the title of today's show entrepreneurial secrets of Leonardo da Vinci. I want to give a special shout-out. Yes, we should start with Florence. Yep. Cuz we've been talking about Florence and Santa Fe, New Mexico. And now it's time for the conscious millionaire entrepreneur questions going to just go through and rapid-fire the mindset that you've created that helps you discover your best business opportunities, Michael curiosa Tha it's a never-ending curiosity think in an open-minded play took away. Let go of preconceptions. And and I agree curiosity will open so many unexpected doors and then you go down a hallway Nago my gosh. They're twenty doors on this hallway that I can also open which is makes a lot of fun, you know, something something from your courses strategy that will help entrepreneurs actually increase profits. I'll give it a technique a tool because it's from the course. It's one of the things we teach people and it's a substitute of tool for really thinking like Leonardo. It's called mind-mapping. It's a way of generating and organizing your ideas so that you can be a better strategic thinker because you're better able to literally see the whole picture and the details and look at how one thing connects to another so I'm absolutely curious about your answer to this because being a conscious millionaire is life hard all about contribution what it is a way that you contribute that allows you to make a bigger difference a greater contribution to the world. Well to me, that's everything I do if it isn't about making a difference. I don't do it. I never have I figured that out but I think that's an important thing that you're you're saying because a mentor who's I've been working with said the same thing to me essentially. He said, okay, you've got all these goals that are traditional goals how much money you want to make all this he says, but stay first true to your spiritual path. And the right answers will come to you and I think that in part is what you're saying. You know, I once again how to think like Leonardo da Vinci. Yes. That is the theme of the show folks Incredible Book by Michael Gelb. What's a book that you'd like to recommend? There are so many but I'd like to recommend firms of endearment by my friend Professor Raj sisodia and his colleagues because firms of endearment was one of the first business school case study type books showing that companies that actually care for all of their stakeholders will make more money particularly and Russia sodium by the way has been on the show a couple of times. He's an incredible guy. I've had the opportunity to meet him multiple times. I'm curious if someone wants to just reach out to connect with you. What's the best way to do that Michael Michael Gelb, love to hear from people come to Michael Gill, sign up for our free newsletter and stay in touch. And you know, this is the question folks you might think. Well, maybe I talked to guess about it. I actually have no idea what anybody else. The answer so it's a mystery for me too, but it's my curiosity, you know here you are creating so much difference in the world and doing so many fun things and obviously drinking a lot of great wine. What's the next Summit? You want to climb a what might be a challenge or obstacle you're going to have to overcome to get to get another mountain top. Well on a business level I'm super excited about taking my DaVinci project. The books sold 700000 copies so far. That sounds pretty good. But I'm I'm looking at 5 million. Hahaha. I Want A Million by the end of this year. So I'm really focused in terms of like business goals. I'm super focused on just getting that number to be made real. So that's a very practical measurable goal. I have gone right at the moment. Yeah, and I want to give you that link again. If you want to go find out about this entire training on Leonardo da Vinci go to conscious millionaire.com forward slash think like Leonardo that's conscious millionaire. I think like Leonardo and our final and parting question, which is kind of our trademark question dead. What's the Legacy you want to leave Michael? the Legacy is a kids will grow up. And the seven principles of History's Greatest genius will just be part of their school curriculum. So that every child were every child is born with this potential for genius. We all have a half billion brain cells, but they didn't come with a manual. My legacy is to leave the manual to develop that genius that every child comes into the world with And folks I want you to know how excited I am that you join us for this conversation. I believe there are no accidents that this is exactly the information material that you need money as a catalyst to take your next step. So you can make a bigger difference with your life. You can build a high-profit business that's making a positive impact. I'd love to hear from you. Tell me what was something you got from the show. What does something you want to apply? Here's my cell phone. Send me a text. It's at 303-641-0401. I'm going to give you that sell. Again. It's 303-641-0401. I want to thank you for all that you're doing in the world and I so much look forward to connecting with you on the next conscious. Millionaire Michael. Thank you so much for being our featured guest today off. I want to thank you for doing your part during this pandemic and financially challenging time using your talents to help others is the greatest gift you can bring forth now. My heartfelt gratitude goes out to you and to help you grow your business. My team of coaches are here to provide you with a complimentary acceleration Obsession to apply go to conscious millionaire, that's conscious millionaire.com slash slash accelerate next listening to conscience millionaire media podcast Radio Network the host producer of the show distributors in broadcast media make no claims that the strategies information discussed and show results in profits may result in loss the opinions and advice on hosts guests. Do not necessarily represent those of the owners staff management or broadcasters of the show illegal, accounting or financial or health devices made of the show your advised to seek counsel not related to your business financial investments or other dog. That is from license advisors always consult your physician or licensed Health advisor prior to making any changes in your diet exercise program and planning any health strategies or information discussed on the shows. Now information provided may be suitable for your situation as always take full responsibility for the decisions and actions you take including responses that they create in your health.

Leonardo Leonardo da Vinci Michael Jack Michael Leonardo DaVinci Leonardo DaVinci Michael Michael Gelb Florence Medici Leonardo Michelangelo G JV principal JV Crum cobelli School of Business Off senior fellow professor Waipio Ben Franklin Plato executive The Wine Cellar
Introducing Searching for Salai

Searching for Salai

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Introducing Searching for Salai

"A master of his time a Timeless icon But what do we really know about Leonardo da Vinci? A mysterious caller has emerged surfacing information that challenges some of the longest-held records about Leonardo's life. I have been a long time people and personal friend of Leonardo himself off. But who is he? Why is he here? My life it belongs in the Italian Renaissance. But my heart my spirit belongs here. This is a technological Renaissance. I live for this time. Maybe we were actually connected. Why us he's lying to you you get that right? Is it possible to different periods in history are more connected than a new. My name is Charlotte Warburton, and this is searching for Sally Smith.

Leonardo Italian Renaissance Charlotte Warburton Sally Smith
155 - Leonardo da Vinci

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

155 - Leonardo da Vinci

"Leonardo da vinci the man the myth the guy who too damn near everything better than anyone who would come before him and better than most came after him the genius genius there was seemingly nothing. This guy couldn't do exceptionally well. He painted some of the most esteemed invaluable pieces of art of all time he's catch detailed semantics inventions that were in some cases several several hundred years ahead of their time he was an artist and architect and inventor a mad scientist a student of all things scientific he possessed the intense curiosity one thousand curious people and the drive of ten thousand to follow through on that curiosity with continual experimentation that led towards immense understanding and scientific scientific advancement his social circle included kings nobles the other top artists of the italian renaissance and the pope his natural genius cross so many disciplines that that he epitomized the term renaissance man and he did this all despite being born the bastard child of either a peasant or slave. We're gonna have fun today going to get some inspiration peration and i'm probably going to say some super fucked up stuff here and there because it makes me so happy to do that all kinds of stuff happening on today's if i can accomplish one percent of what leonardo da vinci did head all have lived a very full and successful life edition of time suck. This is michael mcdonald and you're listening to time suck take. I'm happy monday made sacks. I'm dan comments he of many stock-based nicknames and you are listening to time suck pumps the map coming podcast whore forecast scared to death now on itunes. I think everywhere else all the big third party. Podcast apps hairless athena hope can scare you like scaring queen of the suck lindsey goes subscribe scared to death nimr bojangles triple and can take a back seat today hail. You told the curious member. Today's time suck is brought to you once again by longtime supporter of this sucks lisa can't yeah yeah put your butt on the lisa the only thing that you should spend more time with your hiney touch and then you leesa mattress is your undies or you know don't live free and have nothing spend more time with your bottom than leesamattress. Helu safina leases on a mission to give your body the rest of needs with two awesome mattresses plus accessories and basis for a better place place to sleep. They also believe in providing a better night's sleep for everybody and today they've donated more than thirty two thousand mattresses through more than one thousand nonprofit organizations. I love seeing those numbers continue to climb such an awesome organization not just making money given back as well it fifty percents off your entire kick ass order at least dot com slash time suck use promo code time suck. That's l. e. S. a. dot com slash time. Suck promo code time. Suck times have also brought today by tool. Fuck ya last week. I checked the upcoming sponsor list while listen to top tool tracks on spotify and azam checking and listening to parabola. The tool sponsorship comes in. Do you know the tool is finally available. In places like spotify tools entire music catalog now now available finally hailed him rot for streaming and download for the first time ever fans like myself we can all five albums and i have been now on spotify defy apple music amazon itunes youtube music pandora and more to also announced their brand new album one we tool fans have been waiting for since two thousand six career available now dropped on august thirtieth and it's long worth. It's worth long way. I mean had to records in august twenty seven so i i i only heard the fear innocuous single but love it and i also have read reviews about the upcoming album up coming to me now as you're hearing this out now critic saying ended it lives up to the hype worth along wait so star listening to tools entire music hello today don't miss the new album fear released just this past august thirtieth. Thanks to anyone who came to the hollywood and san diego shows hoping they went really well next day to chicago. Get the hall one show friday september thirteenth friday the thirteenth chicago fucking fucking get their <hes> phoenix copper blues live september nineteen to the twenty first a lifetime suck and he'll kids suck on the twenty-first indy after that being indianapolis apples at the helium new comedy club more dates. Dan was dot tv. Get back to school in style this year with the putin juju shirt made up of over twenty different fan renditions of what these weird lovable dealings my look like a love at fan artwork t shirts all shirts made a three hundred percent pure zip juju tune in to did a puny friendship and love and also porcupine dick to keep the shirts from getting to soften mental domestic free range porcupine dick. I might add also to go with his cuter than a putu shirt. We have an old school putin judy metal lunchbox straight out of the fucking eighties backpacker does peanut butter utter. Sammy's throw him in. This bad was hot apple cider showbiz. Put it in this lunch box shirley. I can picture judy walk into their weird little jobs or you know boring boring tool jobs actually <hes> care australia the lunches of candy and juice boxes and carney food. Thanks thanks get so weird. Meets acts put in jail. I hope i hope you guys continue to like them. Pop enough time to time and thanks for linda's donate and continued do that don't in three thousand to charity this month. Hell yeah nimrod made his way to the ring. Not the throwdown brought to eight. That's that's pretty cool. <hes> september is hosted so many national days national chest a national german sandwich day national 4._0._1._k. Day and most importantly to my wife lindsey quinta suck a beyonce as birthday donate to be on say she's. She's she's good. We're donating three thousand dollars to the nonprofit youth on record with the help of colorado's most talented and willie musicians youth on record inspires is at risk youth to see the potential for a better life. Thanks to loyal fan in denver michael. Sorry no last name given that we could find for this amazing suggestion you've done records. Envisioning for colorado used to discover how voice value can create a better world. They're committed to ensuring that the youth they serve graduate from high school already to enter the workforce transition to college enter advanced advanced technical training and careers their programs and power thousand plus teens some denver's most vulnerable communities to make life choices positively impact your future by teach them developed developed coping tools inspiration to nasties to succeed in today's world and to become leaders of tomorrow you really cool shit like work with at risk teens who are on the he is not graduating having local musicians work with them to make up lost graduates <hes> <hes> and show them a different non traditional artistic way to succeed in life so hail nimrod and their founders stephen bracket from floats that ban with the big hit song handlebars denver-based musician right that song. I can ride my bike with no handlebars. No uh-huh handlebars no hands you've heard at thanks to all the space for allowed us to donate this money on behalf time suck nimrod safina very pleased announcements are done if good news annoys you or to get onto the life and works of davinci now to fit in here to do this may mark five hundred years since his death great h. choice pedro on space lizards and and thank you for allowing us to hire our third full time employees well someone who worked for months time volunteer then for well over a year so and making getting a little bit each month to do so many social media things <hes> you know skip she got the private facebook group started moderated discord started moderated move from portland oregon to cd the d._a. Idaho just for this job. Hari veldkamp high priest is <hes> thank you for bringing her to us so hail nimrod now backlit davinci artist architect inventor engineer scientists and more davinci's many talents interests accomplishments made them the inspiration of many of us lowly hustler's slurs grinders workaholics other ambitious lunatics working our asses off to try and create something amazing. I sure as shit do not have this man's level of talent but i may have a touch of his drive to create so let's get inspired. Let's get to know leonardo motherfucking davinci as we'll soon learned davinci's. Many many interests would take him away from an even greater art career than he could have had <hes> what she had such an amazing already. It's crazy to think but how famous of an artist he is five centuries after he died. I mean davinci's paintings are some of the most valuable pieces of art ever created even the unfinished and damage one's part of their value may may liner scarcity. There are only under twenty surviving pieces. That davinci gets credit for even some of those. Are you know disputed for some reason. I thought there was way more than that. The most it's expensive of da vinci's works at least have been put up for sale so far called salvator mundi or savior of the world sold at christie's auction house in new york two thousand seventeen seventeen for a record smashing four hundred fifty point three million dollars almost half a billion fucking dollars for one painting for a painting that in my opinion isn't even like in the top five best paintings you made and it's pretty beat up or the mona lisa get a i'm going to tell you later. It's insane. <hes> what is valued at all so this particular davinci painting the most <hes> you know <hes> commonly of his quote unquote known works to be a fraud a lot of members at the art world dispute its authenticity so someone spent four hundred fifty million bucks for what might be one of davinci paintings newest i kind of cash flow on a painting by the way anyway <hes> saudi prince about baiter being abdulah bin mohammad bin farrand assad and the salvador mundi isn't even currently on display in fact known even knows what opinion is rumored rumored to about deteriorated to a point that it might not be fit for display the highest amount paid for a work of art at auction previously was one hundred seventy nine point four million for he made that scene sound like a small number number life. Whatever billion hundred eighty mill okay at your trash painting picasso's women of algiers in may of two thousand fifteen. The highs is known sale price for for any artwork. You know not necessarily an auction was three hundred million dollars for william de kooning's interchange modern art sold privately in september two thousand some fifteen by the david geffen foundation to hedge fund manager kennedy griffin distract landscape and if i didn't care when i say this if i didn't know its value and sought at a local art gallery i literally wouldn't put it in my house if they gave it to me for fucking free artists so subjective like i looked at my that to me is a a piece of shit. One man's throw that piece of shit in the trash and burnt is another man's three hundred million dollars painting. Gotta love art in addition to be known for his art. Davinci also known for conspiracies who buddy yeah weird after half millennium scholarship on leonardo is immense and continuing leonardo's life and work of long been the stuff is speculation wild theories untrammelled fantasy says martin kemp professor emeritus of art history at oxford in one of the world's foremost ardo scholars bombarded with things about leonardo on a regular basis that ranged from laughable too insane the bombardier's include neuroscientists dennis dennis opthamologist psychologist pathologist geo morphology or the data's artists photographers even art historians campus devised a taxonomy of disinformed or eccentric ideas about leonardo says it <hes> there are mystic theorists who believe that secret messages about the nature of the cosmos or concealed leonardo's work heresy see syrus who believed that leonardo was involved in some sort of religious cabal gio theorists who followed of themselves trying to identify the background landscape in the mona lisa and other paintings attribution theorists who wanna put leonardo's name on worked at his his drag theorists who believe that the mona lisa depicts either leonardo or one people's dresses woman sci-fi theorists pretty much exactly what you imagine the believe some kind of a billion space lizard some nudity luminosity member come down breath kemp calls dan brown <hes> author of the da vinci code the godfather of many of these theories <hes>. It's funny how one fitch author writing one fictional novel focusing ah vinci has played a part in you know mysteries that unraveling to other fictional mysteries written about other fictional written in other fictional dan brown novels millions forget forget about the fiction part of the job description and think they should have like like dan brownie. He has written a lot of books about a lot of weird things and he uses real names but it's fiction. Kemp says that brown is responsible. Oh for the idea that there are hidden codes messages mystic geometry's disguise words esoteric numbers in a variety of renaissance paintings. I wonder if the end brown was only fifty. Five right right now just laughs his ass off when taking a second to really reflect on how many wacko doodles he is fucking riled up people now out on the web passing along long his ideas that he pulled out of his ass as actual could not be more true wake-up <unk> conspiracies where does that. He made all of it up to write a novel now years later like i don't even know maybe millions of people like yeah. I mean you know that he was part of the priory of si- on knows nonsense oh man i wonder how many conspiracy nuts even understand what the word facial mates carmen see baumbach <hes> curator of the in the department of drawings and prints at the metropolitan museum of art. The author of an upcoming four volume study leonardo da vinci rediscovered. Here's some leonardo disciples on the fringe at least once a week. She says <hes> a a recent example is to men said that leonardo's earliest dated drawing the arno valley from fourteen seventy three they saw elephants camels and birds. What essentially is a landscape. I commend them for their love w. nardo but said there are no elephants or other animals in the drawing. I started this image for a few minutes and i didn't see anything that remotely resembled any animal especially like an elephant for a few humanists. I was pretty sure i saw some sweet boobs. Oh hell is to finish those taught us for sure projected those girls into the image things that people do they see what they want to see. One of the more widespread leonardo theories involves the figure of the apostle. John was his vaguely feminine features in the last supper the idea here which parallels the findings of brown's <hes> robert langdon the fictional professor of somebody symbolic at harvard fictional is leonardo was depicting john but mary magdalene and the church authorities through the centuries waged a campaign to cover up this intimate relationship between jesus and mary zero reputable scholarship supports this interpretation of the last supper. You're we're gonna have some fun with this particular belief in a few minutes to really dig into this one <hes> the mona lisa has been the subject of a lot of non experts speculation hidden images in the painting have been found quote unquote by many ron piccirillo and artists in rochester new york claimed on his website that we looked at the painting upside down and followed the highlights of for portrait he was able to spot turned out to be a lion's head in a head in buffalo head. He added that quote for me. It helps to only use one. I and hand the viewer should be extremely close to the left edge of the painting good job ron. What do you get to the bottom of some shit. Nobody's time doing that very helpful very interesting. The vinci may have made it very very difficult to maybe kind of random spot a few dumb animals hidden into a painting what silvano people all dedicated so much of their lives so von of incentives and art history sleuth to run something in italy called the national committee for the promotion of historical and cultural heritage claims that he can discern minute letters painted. Mona lisa's is in the right eye for instance. He detects letters l. m._v._p. Louvre says that this is a very famous museum in paris. So that is examined the painting was every possible laboratory tests and has found no letters <hes> yes all the experts louvre must be hiding something fucking knights templar the puppets tons of conspiracies revolve around the mona lisa. There are hidden messages in symbolism to speculation and mona lisa's himself for an assistant dresses woman as i said earlier animal's numbers snead himself to painting. Maybe dressed as a woman. I hear that and i think who gives a fuck was davinci connected with the major ancient mysteries was a member of some clandestine secret society and those rules wackadoo tools or take your tin foil hats fuck off my lawn. According to some leonardo was the leader of a group called the priory of silent according to the da vinci code fictional book the primaries mission to keep the secret of mary magdalene in her marriage. Urge to jesus live while the davinci eviction it is based on theories from controversial nonfiction book entitled the holy blood holy grail written by michael <hes> vagit richard allay henry lincoln in the early nineteen eighties holy blood holy grail sites the evidence for leonardo's membership in the secret primary of psi on as a number of documents deposit in the bibliotheque nationale l. in paris but is that even true our spoiler no we're gonna look into the priory of sign and just a bit we have talked about that group before and debunked previously easily. We're going to get into that again here. <hes> so let's take a second to point out one thing before we did. The davinci really did do that. Helps conspiracy theories believe lots of crazy shit about the man davinci. The <hes> really was not a stranger to secret coats. A lot of his notes were written backwards with quote unquote mirror writing. It's unclear exactly why leonardo did this. It's been suggested that he may have felt that. Some of his military inventions would be too destructive and powerful. If they fell into the wrong hands therefore he protected his notes by using a reverse method of writing other scholars point out. This type of encryption was pretty easy to break. You'll need to hold the paper to a mirror to read. It not exactly a real. <hes> you know secret code. If leonardo was used for security he probably only just trying to protect the contents from a casual observer. Just kind of like walking by glanced over shoulder for second and other researchers have suggested that he used this reverse writing because he just found it easier to write right that way and he was a weird eccentric genius. He was left handed. It would've made writing backwards less difficult for him than than for a right handed person now. I just think it's funny that some people think he wrote backwards to hide powerful invention powerful people like people like the leaders of the church leaders of nefarious secret societies as if these powerful leaders just weren't smart enough to figure out he was fucking just riding backwards. It's literally the easiest code to break. Hold up to mir code broken okay so let's take a second now examined. The juicy is conspiracy. I teased a bit here. This one involving dan brown's davinci code the last supper painting and the priory of syon. Let's pop into today's today's idiots of the internet internet okay the video. Today's called <hes>. Does the last supper really have a hidden meaning. It's published by the smithsonian channel barely reputable june eighteenth two thousand thirteen four minute video. It looks into the dan brown. Davinci code novels claimed at the figure sitting to the right of jesus in the painting is not the disciple john as a church claims names but instead mary magdalene and mary is the holy grail. So what does that even mean that would mean that mary board jesus at least one child scandal handle alert jesus would not sell a bit in jason wasn't celebrate that means a christian churches have been enforcing a patriarchy based on lies. It means that the catholic church in particular earlier has built its entire celibate priests based workforce on lice scam for the church to entertain unnatural dominion over its faithful. When the truth was used jesus. I was just a dude so calm the fuck down on the celibacy and on the necessity of the priests and <hes> it could also mean the bloodline of christ lead passes death that the descendants ascendance of jesus walk amongst us. You know the literal descendants their the holy grail and what does that mean. What is she trying to tell us well. It means that christ a sentence or part god odd therefore they might have some kind of god like wizard powers. These god wizards are probably illuminated leaders or maybe they've been hidden generation after generation by knights templars or freemasons or priory of si- on people people may think that they're not god wizard because the church defray to them they could tip balance of power. Maybe the catholic church is trying to exterminate them because there are a threat to its very existence since look. No one can really seem to agree on a lot of different species that just kind of spiral out from the <hes>. This basic belief that mary magdalene was sitting next to him a lot of people. We'll just seem to agree that. Davinci tried to expose some carefully guarded secrets in his paintings. They could shake up the current power structure of the world. Somehow i think a lot of these conspiracies you know fall apart pretty quickly when you try and find out exactly what they do in fact me if they seem to have just more of a general vibe of just like we're trying to find out what it means. We just know that they're hiding something dan okay the global elites are making it difficult to find out hurting. So what exactly is the holy grail even supposed to be anyway. Attorneys tossed around with the grail is at fabled artefact. Artifact usually shows up as the cup that jesus drank of its last supper. We spent some time talking about this and suck one forty legends of king arthur. We learned that sucks at the holy. Grail is an invention of arthur thirty three and legend myth making like no one even talked about it. In the first millennium after the death of christ doesn't show up at all until eleven ninety in the smithsonian only and video a da vinci expert carefully explains saint. John always looked like a woman in other previous traditional pains of the last supper. Davinci didn't just come up with his last supper idea in the way range and everything it was part of a tradition of many frescoes murals and paintings a lot of different medicines guys did last supper paintings. Many of them will before davinci so davinci had to follow some kind of like you know traditions when he's doing this painting and that's why you know and then these painting saint peter handles nive judas carries a purse of silver are and that's why the davinci's depiction of saint john is feminine. It's tradition. He looks feminine in all of the church commission last supper paintings completed by variety of other artists. The venture didn't invent this dementia did break. One tradition is painting. His rendition of the last supper is the first known example of jesus and his disciples not having halos. What does that mean did eventually thinks that these people were not saying they were just dudes possibly or maybe someone told him to do that. They thought it would look cooler. Fucked me was just random. Artistic whimsey <hes> the narrator of the smithsonian quickly points out that there are no hidden letters in the painting alluding to mary magdalene being a in the painting and be her womb being the real holy grail and when you look at it there's just not an any hidden letters clearly okay but now now do we kind of have an understanding of what this video is. Let's look at the comments. Renee s rights people believe that this painting in holds a hidden meaning because da vinci was supposedly in the priory of science and then mandy j. madison quick to reply she writes. You seem to have missed out on the most important when important point that the expert in this documentary is making dan brown's book is all caps fiction. None of it is true. The letters are not there. The young person is not mary magdalene. There is no reference whatsoever to the holy grail. The priory of science didn't exist and manny's right there was no primary every of sign we cover that and bonus up twenty three knights templar we learned that a whack a doodle named pierre plantar made it all up he invented a secret organization within the knights templars alert tasked with ensuring christ's blood descendant survived and that the real identities were kept secret for fear that the church would kill them pull the whole thing of his wackadoo last this same guy pierre <hes> also claimed that as prophesied by nostradamus that he would become the french emperor he would retain or take the holy roman empire fire bring it back take to new heights of glory and that he would fight the devil during the second coming of christ and you know he didn't do that. He died poured unknown in february third. Two thousand in the earth spins. There was no big battle. There is no holy remnant roman empire. No rapture blah blah <hes>. Sometimes i scare myself by the way the weird shit that i now know thanks these episodes way too much weird conspiracy trivia inside my head. I crush jeopardy jeopardy jeopardy jeopardy categories <hes> they would never appear on the the show. Nathan dunlap doesn't give two shits about the real origins of any of this. He believes he just has hard time. Expressing those beliefs writing renee s oh oh they're more truth out there in many things i believe some circuit societies are ribbit on some hidden truths. I backup facts with big little made him and it's not even close to the one seen is more than an eye but a mind and they got this from the bible. I will lead you with my mind. Okay okay mind is spirit and side soul. It's a sentence not just an i._r._a. Set of is not just the ir set of is in god we trust. That's another zone. There's some hidden truth even in druid time magician scotland bring in rick written in stone tablets. Okay thank thank you. I hope you are raising kids. I be a shame not to have someone to pass. All of your awesome knowledge down to <hes> petty kelly wants to believe she knows why mary magdalene was hidden from us and she's pissed about it. She writes mary. Magdalene was hated free and a woman and jealousy surrounded her for how jesus felt about her. When male religious leaders turn everything into a boys club they shun their our own birth givers mothers. It's disgusting. How religion has been used in turn against spirituality and to control keeping women down and men boastful filled with arrogance and pride god which is not something god would like and i and i really liked patty stocks i truly do i agree that. Most religions have a you know had a misogynistic patriarchal agenda whoa would into them. Naseem sway is not agree with patty. Here's very different theory on why women specifically were left out when it came to church leadership writing one-sentence. It's because women suck satan's dick okay then all right. Patty has yet to reply to this difference of opinion. I would love it if she did take it. Seriously disrobes something back like interesting observations. It seems way. I hadn't thought of all the devil dick sucking when i made my initial post. Can you send links to theological explanations sion's that help give credence to your claims of satanic show would love to continue examining your very credible not at all inflammatory hypothesis captain seven seven harris posts. I'm i'm not sure about the letter thing but that one figure does appear to be a woman and that is super annoying. It's knowing because a good two fucking minutes of the four minute video is dedicated specifically to carefully explaining how there was a long tradition of artists commissioned by the church to paint last supper scenes depicting john is being feminine why because he was the youngest apostle. Just symbolic is not some secret symbol. Da vinci has snuck into the painting. You know instead of making him tiny to pick john. Being younger artist made him look a little more feminine since young men do look more feminine than older men because that's how fucking life works series the last supper paintings are shown to prove this in this video that this guy is completely just ignored the world's top davinci experts interviewed and still captain dump fox doesn't listen zain wright's one figure does appear to be a woman though that is just as ignorant as like you. Watch someone who made a video explaining how mirage works they break down the exact scientific. Take principles to come together to make it look. You know like there's there's water in the distance when they're in fact is no water experts. Come on talk about diagrams or fucking drawn out. Joan footage footages evaluated carefully dissected. Everyone agrees that. It looks like there's water when there's for sure now water and that's how mirage works in someone like captain seven seven harris chris just rights not sure about the whole light refracted by warm air near the ground thing would there for sure some water in the distance. Why is that lisa. Lisa amaechi writes. Why is the holy grail in the wall and not on the table where it once was just asking manny j. Madison doesn't care if she's losing her shit. She's popping back up in the feet. She applies the video is telling you is that the book is nonsense. Did you miss that point. It isn't about the holy grail i can see. I can see her tightness here or just. Ah got dim it talking about real painting. That's a stupid book dan brown look what you've done. Now leave you with tom atto. Who should you probably listening to learn more entitled unless he writes first of all who the hell was davinci an my point of view. He was just a painter. A man who painted he has that and coach for some reason who painted did pictures of things he visualized in his mind the last supper just a painting made up his mind of what the last supper might have looked like like the painting has no meaning nor fact about crap because he was not present at the time of event. Thank you utah. Thank you for showing up everybody. I want you grab your participation trophy. It's backed by the fucking dumpster your brain lifts. What are you talking about. Only people who were there could be trusted when it comes to the accuracy of historical event all right well. Let's just take ninety percent of the pulitzer prize winning biographies of important people just fucking barnum them. It's as burnham. They weren't there throw they weren't event. Throw them out attention all history professors. If worn out event shut the fuck fuck up you facts about crap beat it roman history experts none of you trixie fuckers. Were there so enough with your horsecrap. Hey guy working on thomas jefferson term paper take computer. Shove it up your line ass. You don't crap about crap crap face. Hey paleontologist the intelligence. Remember that one time you hung out with dinosaurs no than pack up your crap jobs crap holes. That's all for today's idiots a crappy internet media and the internet. I got to say i'm feeling feeling better about that education donation. We've made this month so important. It's important. Please please educate kids. Please god please okay now hopefully sean there isn't much credence to davinci conspiracies. Let's look into how cool is life actually was like like legit. One of the coolest lives ever in my opinion in the history of all lives. Let's get to know this a scribbling in a doodling some bitch. Let's dig into life and achievements as renaissance man in today's times like timeline right after a word from our next bossard time is brought to you by hymns makers of man lotions and so much more. I'll sleep enough of course. 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All sponsor links there leonardo motherfucking davinci timeline rights now on those books soldier where martin down a time james stockton timelines leonardo da vinci was born on april fifteenth fourteen fifty two at the third hour of the night around ten pm in the tuscan hills town of vinci in the lower valley of the river in the territory of florence. His birth was recorded by his paternal attornal grandfather in a journal vince he just outside of florence. Only thirty five kilometers just over twenty miles west of the city of the renaissance. The main attraction of this little fourteen thousand thousand six hundred and fifty person town ish area outer suburb of florence is the leonardo da vinci museum or to say it in italian audion maceo lena dino comfort pains in sticking on the beach by some audio my best not keep slipping into a bad cartoonish italian. A stereotypical accent based only on the mario brothers but it's gonna be hard not to keep doing it. I losing gentleman spaghetti. I was much kickapoo. La la vinci is a sister city of allentown pennsylvania for you time suckers living there just a few kilometers outside the current town is the home where de events you was born. His birth home still stands which is pretty awesome. You can get to walk trail through an olive tree grove to get there. How very italian the home was recently. <hes> reopen to the public after a careful restoration project a lokossa nato deal leonardo davinci was the illegitimate son of macedo piero for the antonio da vinci a florentine notary and lawyer member of the family of minor nobles and catalina a peasant who may have been a slave from china or the middle east humble beginnings. It was a bastard literally the illegitimate child of perhaps slave loving him even more right now and actually being born illegitimately pave the way for or leonardo to become an artist had he been born legitimately he would have been expected to take part in the family business of being a notary or lawyer notaries by the way played an important role drawn up commercial contracts land sales wills other legal documents in latin for the merchants of florence is flourishing trade and banking industries since he wasn't legitimate the culture they dictated that he was forbidden to join the family business which opened the path to art for him. Also leonardo also had been born ambassador in italy in the mid fifteenth century because unlike like other times in european history other places in europe. It wasn't a social hindrance. Nineteenth century cultural historian jacob burckhardt went so far as to label the italian renaissance a golden age for bastards pious to who's the pope was born wrote about visiting ferrara italy where his welcoming party included seven princes from the ruling family among them the reigning duke all born out of wedlock right so now back leonardo's mother mother. Bring my my pizza pie a mother. Maybe some a meatballs on a stick. A mother katharina was accommodating for slaves at that point <hes> some analysis led <unk> some to believe <hes> supposedly fingerprint had features common to people of middle eastern origin. Most scholars seem to think she was not a slave. Just a very poor peasant kemp that <hes> emeritus professor of art history oxford university said that his research into the archives of vinci and florence suggests that katerina and her brother popho orphans lived in a derelict derelict farmhouse with her grandmother. Just outside of inch e meanwhile ceo piano davinci was on his way to becoming a successful lawyer florence and was engaged to be married. Piero's families menace father side of an active in florentine politics for three centuries and they own farmland numerous businesses in the area. So you know there were family of means on mother's side his family owned owned ceramic kilns and the nearby town of buckle. The incredibly powerful and influential italian medici family will show up late in the suck bit had a hunting lodge in beca dotto and would by hi the now famous cobalt blue majolica ceramic pottery still seeing a florence today in places like <hes> florence's oldest active hospital the hospital of santa maria nueva during a visit hometown in july fourteen fifty one scipio sad. I met a young woman katharina and she became pregnant so i guess he did more more than just meet her in case. You don't how babies are made. I put his penis inside of her vagina where it would remain at least for a moment post ejaculation and did this least once then then as would be customary. His family seems to have given her a dowry so that she would have enough value to be married off to another man was crazy saudi again about your time in another sheet. No longer has purity to offer the youngest. Maybe there's a goldstar will find a fellow into the middle to bed data. Allow me to introduce them. Another luigi he particular from about how weird sad is that there's a lot of truth when i joked about like that really that was how people thought of women like a store they woman's value is located primarily just between her legs like she was a car. Won't you be thrown off the lot value depreciated immensely very primitive live <hes> reduction area way to look at somebody. Professor kemp figured all this out manitou property tax records also founded that scipio conducted a minor legal transaction action for caterina's husband another connection linking the artis parents leonardo has no surname in the modern sense. Davinci doesn't come from his dad or you know it has to do with him. Being a bastard just means of vinci as he was born in the village of vinci his full birthday was leonardo. They see a piero da vinci meaning leonardo son of scipio from vinci. He spent his first five years. Mainly in the hamlet of on channel with his mother then lived primarily in the household of his father grandparents grandparents uncle francesco in the small town of vinci on john was essentially it's a neighborhood inside the communist vinci economy and being an administrative division of italy and the commun- boundary so you know sometimes a little different than the city actually ends visually they give it like a tiny american county <hes> not clear exactly why leonardo went to live with his father when he's about about five but since we know that the man was genus most likely showed a glimmer of his future intellectual and artistic abilities when he was a small boy and his father having a lot more means that his mother would be able to provide him with an education that she could not we do know that he didn't go live with his dad because mom died because record show that thirty five years after her son was born katharina went to live with leonardo briefly records showing that he paid for her funeral if katharina and did give him to his birth father to be given opportunity she could not give him a all admit that i'm speculating regarding this but if true wow what incredible sacrifice i'm continually amazed by stories like that from history repair chooses to let someone else raise their kids to give them a better chance of having a comfortable life so incredibly selfless such enormous sacrifice. I can't imagine that was cairo losing them losing time with them. Due to divorce was hard enough incredibly hard very painful can imagine essentially saying goodbye to them hoping or at least you know for for most of their life so that they could have a life that i knew i couldn't give them who oh yeah. He acts feel some emotions talking about that. <hes> so fourteen fifty seven leonardo da vinci five years old goes those live with his dad and his father's wife albena pierrot had married a sixteen year old albeit a day giovanni minority daughter of a prominent florentine shoemaker occur in fourteen fifty two when he was twenty five and beata loved her little illegitimate stepson leonardo like he was her own and fourteen sixty two. We learn leonardo was ten is believed. He began his formal artistic education. Little else is known about leonardo's early years later life. He would <hes> record only to childhood incidents in his journals. The one which he regarded as an omen was a hawk like bird called a kite dropped from the sky hovered over his cradle two years old. Its tail feathers brushing his face opening his mouth. He would be obsessed with the art and science of flying all his life. He attributed some of that to that moment. The second incident occurred while exploring in the mountains literally. Oh discovered a cave and was terrified. Verify that some great monster might lurk inside and also it was driven by curiosity to go inside and find out if it was there so showed you know that great determination to follow curiosities aussies young child <hes> leonardo's early life has been the subject of a lot of historical conjecture lot of tales about him that are probably just missed legends. The sorry a sixteenth century biographer biography of renaissance painters tells of how local peasants requests that scipio ask his talented son to paint a picture on around plaque leonardo responded with a painting of snakes spitting adding fire which was so terrifying that piano sold it to a florentine art dealer who sold it to the duke of milan. Meanwhile have you made a profit. Scipio bought a plaque decorate with heart pierced by an arrow which he gave to the peasant okay so now back to fourteen sixty two. We're leonardo is ten beginning his artistic education. If you'll recall shapiro's family had killed in battle shuttle which was the center of a tick ceramic work in the florence district the most important and artistic area in all of europe if not in all of the world at that time in the mid fifteenth century the italian renaissance was still ramping up renaissance is essentially a fancy word for rebirth and towards the end of the fourteenth century. A handful of italian thinkers declared that they were living living in a new reborn age. The barbarians on unenlightened middle ages were over new age of learning and literature art and culture had begun fifteenth century italy was unlike any other place in europe especially florence <hes> but yeah but but italy <hes> it was divided into independent city states each with a different form of government florence where the italian renaissance began again the city-state leonardo's birth fell under the jurisdiction of was an independent republic also a banking and commercial juggernaut after london and constantinople it was the third third largest city in europe at the time wealthy florentines like the medici family flaunted their money and power by becoming patrons or supporters of artists and intellectuals like leonardo the vinci and because of this artistic patronage florence became the cultural center of europe and of the renaissance itself very cool those guys you know thought to do that in your what great art was produced largely by families like the medici or because of them because they're able to support artists like davinci in addition to leonardo davinci to florence art scene would produce other renaissance artists teenage mutant ninja turtles. <hes> you know michelangelo donatello raphael michelangelo crazy stuff like this david the painting the sistine chapel he was one of the architects of the famed an inspiring vatican cathedral help design saint peter's basilica architect sculptor and painter donatello created equestrian statue of got the maleta that stan stay in the piazza santo and purdue italy <hes> the also multi-talented raphael credit works such as madonna of the pinks a beautiful painting showcase today in the national gallery london that is not a legs splayed wide open crotch shot despite what his name clearly implies sorry about that fina florence also kicked out a sandro botticelli one one of my favorite renaissance artists who produce beautiful paintings like the birth of venus seemed today in florence as you feed to gallery and venus and mars in the national gallery of london as well. It feels like a century ago. When i went to school for a few months london i used to sit in awe in front of venus. Mars blown away trying to figure out something so beautiful inartistically powerful was created so long ago <hes> leonardo da vinci's painting version of the rocks one of two of those also house in london's national gallery also blew me away the detail the color saturation the mood and feelings vote by this painting is true master's of art and ten year old davinci is there in the midst of this great artistic revival this great awakening his fame mm is the product of being born with a great mind a great time and fate placing him in the right situation leonardo grownup just outside of florence in the midst of florence's renaissance. His father's family owns a kiln where the medici h. u. Family will buy ceramic materials that are put to use by artistic masters in new buildings and monuments built showcases to showcase his power and strength and we think think win. His artistic education begins early initiation at this age or younger has been more conclusively documented in the lives of other renaissance artists. We have better childhood records of a guy like raphael who was apprenticed to pietro perugino another notice renaissance artists by the age of ten so fourteen sixty four leonardo's now twenty-eight-year-old world stepmother albeit dies during childbirth. The baby was to be s._a._p. Does i legitimate child but sounded. The baby also dies during the birth that same year thirty-seven-year-old scipio. It'll quickly remarried. Francesca descente giuliano manfredini listed in some sources being fifteen other sources being twenty little else's written about her other than she died early into the marriage and did not produce legitimate heir. What's interesting here is that despite his first two wives not producing legitimate heir leonardo's father does not go through a legal process to make illegal outta leonardo which was possible you could go to the courts and go through a process to make this happen. Historians think that scipio did not go through this is legal process because leonardo likely had already shown a passion for and a talent in the arts and he didn't want to take an artistic future away from his son fourteen sixty six aged. You fourteen leonardo's artistic education taken to the next level. Now we have some documentation and what's going on with his life. He gets apprentice to one of the most successful artists of the day andrea raya and read this yoni better known as roko. <hes> row. Kill is his most famous work of art sculpture. The equestrian statue of batallio are are bottle bartolomeo male kellyanne which can be seen today in venice in the compost santi giovanni apollo city square foot. Oh kyo had himself a study in her donatello and served as an official sculpture to the ruling medici family not only skilled artists but a skilled teacher vocals workshop was in the heart of florence's intellectual and a cultural epicenter assure in the young leonardo of a fine education in the humanities other famous painter's apprentice or associated with the workshop include gallon gallon d._o. Pedal gino but a chilly and other names that sound like stuff. You'd say ordering something delicious authentic italian pizzeria yes. I'd like eh gilan deal. They can please. Can i get us some pit. Aquino papers can have a semi-finished roundabout jail sprinkle on top of the pizza by a tola h._r. Getting this getting apprenticeship was definitely a good news bad news kind of deal. The good news about getting an apprenticeship and votto goes workshop was leonardo would be exposed to a vast range of technical skills and have the opportunity to learn drafting chemistry metallurgy metalworking plaster astor casting leather-working mechanics carpenters well as artistic skills of drawing painting sculpting modelling from one of the best in the world surrounded by other amazing students who go on to become some of the world's greatest artists davinci's love for studying the anatomy of living things also likely began hearing this artistic think tank workshop <hes> the bad news about <hes>. This apprenticeship is a da vinci was likely repeatedly sodomized by barocco other masters operating out of the workshop and even other students farther along in their apprenticeship as was sadly customary at the time what the fuck <hes> the origin of the phrase paying dues is thought to have come from the fifteenth century italian practice which itself was pulled from ancient roman and greek traditions and then it had a you know sad revival during the renaissance and i guess no one seemed to think it was wrong to do that to kids. Is you almost ten back then weird bit history to try and contemplate davinci michelangelo raphael donatella celli all these other italian masters sodomized repeatedly for several years as children children in order to learn the skills that allow them to produce beautiful art later in life that we now know them for. It's gonna make it a little difficult lift. These paintings the same way going forward. Even the greats leonardo stood out as one of the best. If not the best he would collaborate with barocco on his baptism of christ a painting of a young angel. We'll holding jesus his robe complete some time between fourteen seventy two in fourteen seventy five legend has it eventually painted a manner that was so far superior to his master's that vote okeyo <unk> put down. His brush never painted again. This is probably a little more myth making but when you look at the two painter's works in auto clearly did possess superior ability leonardo himself may have been the model for two works by but okeyo including the bronze statue of david in the bar jello and the archangel michael tobias and the angel but creepy was what i mentioned earlier around fourteen seventy one verrocchio shop nineteen year old leonardo works with botticelli perugino lorenzo decree and gallon gallon dial here in the first first half the fourteen seventy s these various masters collaborated on numerous works producing <hes> you know <hes> a variety of important pieces of art from tobias in the archangel raphael in the national gallery in london to drive madonna currently the national gallery of art in washington d._c. <hes> that one is generally primarily attributed to lorenzo renzo declared the tokyo and the young davinci believed also worked on it and this collaboration is what made it difficult to ascertain which works really were davinci's in which were forgeries reseau fakes nowhere for high-quality complex here the baptism of christ annunciation <hes> and the annunciation in u. T. two masterpieces of synthesis in which leonardo's role is evident is cooled davinci worked with other masters by fourteen seventy two dated twenty leonardo qualified as a master in the guild of saint luke. A highly respected expected guild of artists can a union almost <hes> or university and doctors of medicine even after his father said him up in his own workshop though his attachment to vote okeyo with such that he continued to collaborate with him <hes> leonardo's earliest known solo dated work drawing in a impending of the arno valley drawn on august fifth fourteen eighteen seventy three oh and before i forget <hes> sodomy was not part of any italian renaissance apprenticeship program <hes> at least not that i'm aware of i made it up at least a few new listeners would just be thinking for the next few minutes about like what the fuck like the guy who painted the mona. Lisa had to go through that to learn how to do that. I was just a joke in <hes>. I can't beat. Hey i'm making jokes are sorry not sorry not sorry we notably in order to become a member of the florence painters get yeah forty seventy two because his name appears in florence companies redbook of creditors and debtors leonardo they say repeal davinci painter thank you record could keepers the painting annunciation or the annunciation by leonardo da vinci was painted with david okeyo around fourteen seventy two one of his earliest known works one of my favourite's stunning color saturation richness and detail and again <hes> yeah just <hes> i did not know about a lot of these renaissance paintings that they were done with a variety of people people variance to me <hes> in eighteen sixty nine some critics recognize the enunciation as the youthful work by leonardo because of okeyo. Oh kyo use lead-based paint heavy brushstrokes and art historians figured out that he left a note for leonardo to finish the background and the angel leonardo use light brush strokes and no lead when the annunciation ta tion was x-rayed but okay does work evident while leonardo's angel would become invisible pretty cool how they're able to kind of figure out who did what on some of these paintings fourteen seventy-three leonardo draws a landscape on the feast of santa maria della navy <hes> that pick where the thought he saw an elephant hidden in the background this earliest known so low drawing that we have record of around fourteen seventy five. It's believed to begin painting the portrait of janetta guinevere at fuck. Something ours and weird place is being currently on his plane washing d._c. At the national gallery of art why why haven't gone there. I didn't realize it <hes> so much. Cooler was in dc fourteen seventy five leonardo may have collaborate on the piazza madonna madonna for the hysteria cathedral roco <hes> that guy that fake needed fake dues had to be paid for <hes> lorenzo declivity who's adela a painting or sculpture on the front of a raised shelf above an altar which typically forms the basis for an altarpiece now in the louvre around fourteen seventy five in order also designs tapestry for for the king of portugal which has sadly been lost over time if you do find it art historians likely to send it to suck tension p._o. Box three nine one eight hundred six. We will take good curve it and sell it. I mean donate it to the highest bidder. I mean protector of art things leonardo still working barocco shop in fourteen seventy six on april night fourteen seventy six twenty four years old. A major event occurs in his life. He is accused of sodomy something. I totally forgot about <unk> out when i was joking about him. Pants twos. I'll show myself out. Leonardo was arrested along with a few other male companions one of which he had already been arrested for the crime before it was a well known prostitute when no witnesses came forward to testify against the artist and his friends da vinci was acquitted on june sixteenth. The charges were dismissed for lack of evidence there speculation that sends one of the accused leonardo day <hes> taught a wani was related to a lorenzo they medea the medici family may have exerted its powerful influence to distilled secure a dismissal of this case the miniature family extremely successful and wealthy merchants and bankers one of the most if not the most powerful and wealthy family and not i just in florence but in all of europe at this time leonardo journal suggests that the allegations were somewhat devastating to a man who liked to keep his private life private and because these accusations it may have cost us a lot of details about his life he may have become much more private because he really doesn't say much in his journals that he wrote about his private life many speculated because the sodomy charge he maintained a life of celibacy other speculation he continued to have homosexual relationships or lease flings that he kept extremely private many historians things then she wasn't all likelihood homosexual he was known in addition to being talented and successful and well liked to also possess what wanted meyer called outstanding physical beauty and yet he had no no known romantic liaisons with any women over the course of his life. He never married never had kids the only thing he states regarding sex and it's no big at all is the act of procreation anything that has any relation to it is so disgusting that human beings would soon die out if there were no pretty faces and sensuous dispositions okay <hes> greed disagree leonardo the nude female form to me long way from discussing most beautiful thing on earth hill safina. Maybe that one time he you know he did it and got arrested. Maybe just went the wrong way with their own bodies by wrong buddies. I don't mean male bodies. I mean dirty bodies clean bro dirty dog in a mud but it's gonna make for rough. I write shelby's talk about peanut butter. If you can't take the creamy davinci take your monkey and u._p._s.'s out of the spank. My fat bottomed pedal bleeds kitchen. That's how they do it. Hollywood hollywood our fish lake gentleman. He'll be here all week. Try the veal showbiz <hes> and maybe he really becomes kind of a sexual. Maybe he was a sexual. I have known people over the course of my life. That read very very very a sexual. If we're going to believe you know sexuality is on on a spectrum with home actually one-sided heterosexuality on the other thing y'all got to. I believe that a sexualities in there maybe in the middle somewhere okay so sad for sure that homosexuality non-acceptable adventures day he was lucky hidden live a few decades earlier because <hes> sodomy and florence just a few decades prior was a crime punishable by death fourteen seventy six leonardo da vinci painting the portrait of dean she <hes> she was born in fourteen fifty. Seven was the lady of the era aristocratic class in fifteenth century florence admired for her intelligence by florentine contemporaries. The oil on wood portrait permanently acquired the national gallery of art washington d._c. <hes> nine hundred except for five million bucks paid to the princely house of leichtenstein stein stein record price to time wonder how much they would go for now seven hundred fifty million. How trouble would you get in for trying to steal it yeah asking for a friend. It's also the only painting <hes> tributed only two dimensions. It exists in perm display north america. The portrait is one of the highlights of the national gallery of art admired by many four trail of ghinva's. Her name is i g. I n. e. v. r. a. the fuck <hes> beautiful steer. She has no hint of a smile in her gaze. Though forward seems indifferent indifferent to the viewer a strip from about in the paint was removed in the past presumably presumably due to damage and our arms and hands. I'm gonna call her. Go ginny any chinese arms. The hands were lost fourteen seventy eight. Leonardo writes in his notebooks that he has begun to virgin. Mary's is also likely that the when when woz madonna was the first work painted by leonardo and fourteen seventy eight. Maybe maybe painted by entirely by the there's a lot of some of the time was very difficult in the painting section because we don't know the exact dates and some people think that one painting was the first one someone thinks by sofa from bounced around a little bit i apologize. It was a son of a bitch to put together in the section. <hes> the composition of madonna and child was flowers proved to be one of the most and by the way on that note really quick. I mean debates continue new to this day over a lot of his works. Some works you know definitively attributed to him by some art scholars some art historians are thought by others to nope not by hand but attributed to some other italian master. Sometimes people think they had a little bit to do with one painting. <hes> other people think that a lot to do without one yeah get a lot of the records regarding specifically the paintings we have better records for for other the stuff where we can positively attributed other like sketches and kind of inventions to him the paintings the way they were done with the collaboration and again the lack of records pretty tricky <hes> but yeah fourteen seventy eight ben wa madonna <hes> painted by leonardo. The british museum owns two of leonardo's preliminary sketches for this piece. The composition of madonna and child with flowers proved to be one of the most popular works also completed needed thought to be completed in fourteen seventy eight it was extensively copied by young painters including raphael whose own version of leonardo's design but none of the pinks was acquired in two thousand four by the national gallery three in london <hes> for centuries madonna and child flowers considered lost and the ninety nine the russian architect leon bete-noire sensationally exhibited it in saint petersburg burgas part of his father-in-law's collection. The painting had been apparently brought over from italy to russia by the notable connoisseur alexander korchikov in the seventeen ninety s fucking snaky russians if they're not spreading communism or cyber hacking or making dolls that are open to reveal tiny dolls. They're hiding famous paintings in class classic russian move. That's russia. This painting is curly exhibited. In saint petersburg state. Hermitage museum never heard of it but apparently the second largest museum in the world. I gotta get saint petersburg siberia. I can skip saint petersburg will be cool as hell data. Leonardo's early works proving authenticity is difficult but this picture was probably painted somewhere between fourteen seventy five and and fourteen eighty when his record leonardo's produced several virgin mary's <hes> donna of the carnation aka madonna with vase or madonna with child is an oil painting by davinci created sometime around fourteen seventy eight four hundred eighty permanently displayed in munich germany and a gallery with the name. It looks like it was created by the devil himself to torture people with pronunciation limitations has about four hundred constants and to vows. It's been there since eighty nine after it was in private ownership besides painting stupid babies and shit leonardo also also did some cool inventing. Let's get to that leonardo. Da vinci sketched these self propelled cart sometime between fourteen seventy eight forty for many years folio eight. One two are of the codex atlantic is was considered part of leonardo's famous automobile project only recently has revealed true nature as a cart device for use in theatrical settings the manage manchester page illustrations show two distinct projects <hes> a provincial and preparatory drawing and a more well defined one at the center of the folio. Two large spiral springs underneath a horizontal. Where's donald cogwheels at the cart to provide the motive power to set the wheels in motion the also acts as a lever system for theatre puppets. An additional ingenious device serves as remote control. Oh handbrake. I mean i mean you can't call this the first car but it does feel like an ancestor to the first car for sure amazing how he drew on it looks centuries ahead of its time looks more like production deduction guide for something being made in the late nineteenth century then a sketch someone thought about the mid fifteenth century in fourteen eighty leonardo paint saint jerome in the wilderness it depicts fix saint jerome during his retreat the syrian desert where he lived the life of a hermit and where if davinci's davinci's patients accurate he also looked more like some kinda creepy <unk> from lord of the rings than he did like an actual human. I'm guessing this is the da vinci painting you at least want to hang your bedroom. If you hate nightmares in this painting gene creepy ass saint jerome kneeling in a rocky landscape gazing towards a crucifix that can be discerned faintly sketched in the extreme right of the painting in drums right hand unhealed rock with which traditionally shown beating his chest and penance sweet not psychotic at all at his feet is a line which became came a loyal companion after he extracted a thorn from his pot that part sweet like that part of the story like the part of being friendly to lyon <hes> way more than the beating his chest with iraq like a fucking psychopath path <hes> the lion the stone in cardinal's hat are the traditional attributes of the saint on the left side of the panel. The background is a distant landscape of a lake surrounded by mountains shredded missed the right hand side. The only discernible features a faintly sketched church saint to the opening and some rocks the church's presence may lose drums position in western christianity is one of the doctors of the church left unfinished painting provides visitors with extraordinary glimpse into leonardo's creative process as he moved from under drawing to the realization of forms and paint the painting also preserves. The input of the fingers in the upper left corner fourteen. Anyone davinci paints the the adoration of the maj i for the monks of san san diego a scorpio in florence leonardo was giving the commission by augustine monks of san donato escapade in florence but departed from alon the following following year leaving the painting unfinished as he you're gonna find out did often. It has been new pizza gallery in florence in sixteen seventy. I have left several voice mails offering free to finish it myself for free still waiting to hear back so hopeful so hopeful that i can get in there and do some stuff do some due to the virgin mary and child depicted in the foreground of the painting form a triangular shape with kneel in adoration behind them as a semicircle of accompanying figures including what may be a self portrait of the young leonardo in the far right in the background. The left is is the ruin of a pagan building on which workman can be seen apparently repairing it on the right or men on horseback fighting in a sketch of a rocky landscape. There's lot going on in the adoration into the magic. Leonardo develops pioneer use of the treatment of light and shade and drawing and painting <hes> shadow skill creating a seemingly chaotic mess of the mass of people plunged into darkness and confusion from which the magic pure towards the brightly lit figures of mary and jesus who's really good at like making like paint seem just like three d. his use of <unk> how he drew light the same year most of the other noteworthy painters in florence were sent to rome for work on projects for the pope fourteen eighty eighty two leonardo moves from florence to milan entering into a long patronage he would have with a little ludovico sephora future duke of milan by this time leonardo's riding riding in there's no books on a regular basis davinci worked on many projects for the future duke including the preparation of floats and pageants for special occasions did fucking parades new designs for a dome for milan cathedral and a model for huge equestrian monument to francesco safaga ludovic goes predecessor fourteen eighty two it was meant to be the biggest horse statue in the world world seventy tons of bronze set aside seventy tons of bronze set aside for casting the monument known as leonardo's horse. The monument remained unfinished for several early years which apparently again not unusual for leonardo. Do not have a problem walking away from a job. The bronze he was using statue was used several decades later for canons to protect the city of milan from the invasion of charles. The fifth king of france between fourteen eighty three and fourteen five leonardo taints the first madonna on the rocks <hes> the version of the rock sometimes madonna the rocks <hes> is is the title of two different paintings with almost identical compositions which were both largely painted by leonardo da vinci one is in the louvre in paris other is in in the national gallery in london which i mentioned earlier mos authorities agreed that the version louvre is for the most part painted by leonardo and his you know the earlier of the two works defined brushwork use use of c._s. Kudo chiba shadow schiavo considered characteristic many of leonardo's works and it's about eight centimeters taller than the london version the first record record of those pictures and sixteen twenty five when it was in the french royal collection on april twenty fifth fourteen three leonardo and the brothers ambrosio and evangelista the perez were commissioned by the milanese co fraternity of the immaculate conception to paint a work celebrating the immaculate conception for the new chapel. The contract survives as does much of the documentation asian from labor disputes over it now being finished goddamn nardo fucking leonardo di diva apparently they'd already. They're already been a previous contract and fourteen fourteen eighty with john komo. They'll know evidently the work was not completed. Among the work stipulated in second contract was completion and gilding various carvings for the wooden framework of the altarpiece none of which are not survive the three paintings were stimulated a central virgin child in two side panels with angels described only earlier contract trek with del maino these paintings also in the national gallery with different province. <hes> prevent provinces from the main. <hes> got to many words words. There sat as well for a while there but every paragraph in this suck. It's like no just back. Sweat providence's from the main were painted entirely by the brothers brothers to pettus according to modern art historians and contemporary statement by the brothers legal dispute. All the work was to be completed by the feast of the conception december eight th fourteen eighty three but it didn't happen because davinci apparently sassy temperament of n._f._l. Wide receiver at some later date. The legal dispute began the main issue being that the main painting was not finished leeann are left milan without gel fucking doing that <hes> meanwhile the depress brothers completed their portion of the work. They wanted payment. The dispute was settled on april twenty seven fifty six with requirement that leonardo needed needed to return to milan within two years complete the painting and then receive further sums beyond those in the original contract so maybe just want more money that went along something that appears to have happened he peers. We've got more money. Another son was paid him fifty seven in around fourteen eighty-three davinci sketches sketches. The design for a parachute is no book again davinci so far ahead of his time. This time was not the first time he came up with this idea. Though some things that a form of parachute was mentioned by chinese unease texts twenty twenty one centuries ago a conical parachute appears for the first time in the fourteen seventy s in italian manuscript slightly proceeding leonardo davinci's. She's conical parachute designs. It was intended as an escape device to allow people to jump from burning buildings but there is no evidence that it was actually ever used. Leonardo's parachute shoot design consists of sealed linen cloth held open by a pyramid of wooden poles about seven meters long along with the design is no book had an accompanying note that read if a man it is provided with the length of gummed linen cloth the length of twelve yards or each side and twelve yards high he can jump from any great height whatsoever without injury despite this confidence no record davinci trying it out. I feel like he's like yeah uses parachute you can jump out of the window ten score ten tower and if there's no way you can get hurt. Go ahead. Go ahead and try me demonstrate and forgot it here. I am a davinci. I don't even to finish my projects that half of the time hi you want me to do the demonstration ashida then it's fucking pay inside the next invention to come from davinci will be the first of many created for war and let's go over these theoretical weapons right after today's final sponsor today's time so is brought to you by the whole air banjo uh-huh academy traditional italian music master class limited time special edition forgotten works of davinci course. Don't push elite. I know some of you hate the evangelist so much. I want to demonstrate how to play. A song recently rediscovered the davinci. Had you know <hes> you know put together for the air banjo just just just humor for you. Just a bitch didn't damper. Don't thank bumper-to-bumper temper. Thanked trump banked. Don't don't don't don't put them but thank thank patino brattleboro. Take time to think about me but the damp a temper tantrum think tank okay. I'm done see that wasn't that wasn't too bad had and of course it had nothing to do with davinci's an excuse to force a mario brothers theme song you think i think i thank you. Thank you. Thank you banker. Taganka donka tanker tanker. Okay normally done done here. We go ooh really only me. Today's time suck is brought to you by hellofresh commericals number one meal kit. Yes delicious food jake diligence food. You like food. That tastes like it's been scraped off some dirty asphalt or do you prefer delicious food. <hes> oh okay me too with hellofresh. You'll get easy. Seasonal recipes premeasured ingredients delivered right to your door. All you have to do is cook and enjoy hellofresh. 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From some kind of fancy taco joint perfectly seasoned pork would what for sure make again kiwi salsa fancy like some kind of hawaiian taco school like i got my hawaiian taco doctorate dr taco. Maybe that's another new nickname for me me. For eighty dollars off your first month of hellofresh go to hellofresh dot com slash time suck eighty enter code time suck eighty. It's t. I m. the s. u. C. k. eight zero. That's like receiving eight meals for free. When you go to hellofresh dot com time suck eighty enter the code t. I m. e. s. u. C. p._k. Eight zero lincoln the description now. Let's talk about some crazy ass davinci weapons four seventy five poss- possibly ninety six leonardo gets into the missile launching business sketches design for giant crossbow like a really big crossbow. The effort put into design components indicates that he was striving to realize it as it's a workable weapon. The structure is huge. It's dimensions can be judged when comparing machine to drive a man who's operating it. The bow was made within would on six wheels twenty-seven yards arts across made up of thirty nine separate parts this giant crossbow we'd be cranked winding gears had two different firing mechanisms the simplest of which involve aww releasing a holding pen by striking it with a mallet if successfully built it would've been able to shoot giant rocks other huge projectiles very fast across the battlefield reminds reminds me of how the plague suck we talked about launching plague infected bodies through the air with a tributary would if you could shoot infected dude across about if it was a giant crossbow loud the greg greg greg crossbow fire that greg mchugh magistrate a giant crossbow the battlefield i mean they did already have cannons but i think a giant crossbow way more intimidating. That's that's like straight out of game of thrones like. It's like one of those things us. Try and kill the dragons with what are they gonna make giant eros you know just shooting shoot him to the bathroom like just just just make shishkabob enemy dudes with the era was on fire. What if you could make a flaming human shish kebab. It's a good thing vlad. The impaler ruled few decades before da. Vinci didn't get ahold of that weapon. He'd have been shishkabob. Motherfuckers left right for wlac. Ya also around forty five leonardo da vinci sketched designs signs for some other vehicles of war. One idea was a sized chariot. My god this is something like grim reaper graphic novel type shit the size chariot gary it was propelled by horses with a pillion rider and carried in front of it foresights mounted on a revolving gear turned by a shaft driven by the wheels of a cart behind the horses. It was like it was like having a chariot with huge helicopter blade just out in front. If all the blades were essentially giant fucking sorts just four huge sword blades spin around charlton people's arms and heads off shit or malfunctioning and chopping off the horse had there was pulling the chariot or pulling the chopping off the head of the driver leonardo. It did note this particular idea. Was you know maybe not as best. Maybe had the potential to do. A lot of collateral damage probably best that one stays in no book leonardo leonardo it also drew a sketch and nobody's during this time about a what was basically a tank davinci's tank was said to be propelled. We're supposed to be propelled by two men powering crankshafts. Although the drawing self looks quite finished the mechanics apparently a fully developed because if built drawing the tank with a lot of effort might be he made to rotate on the spot would never progress before direction but in a in a bbc documentary was such good title leonardo the man who wanted to know everything a military team built machine and just made one slight little tweak <hes> found that you know they just had to change one of the gears and that it did actually work really well. <hes> these guys were were moving around around one guys. You know <hes> mankind of the top part of like the turrets. There's a couple of guys chris. Turn in these gears making the tank actually move leonardo's notebooks also <hes> <hes> showed cannons which he claimed could hurl small stones like a storm with the smoke of these causing great territory enemy in great loss confusion. These canons would come out of the tank and an armoured moving vehicle capable of shooting numerous projectiles if you sent those across the battlefield annual shoot at the enemy of the giant sucking crossbow. I feel like psychological. Intimidation alone is going to win when you some battles and enemies would just be so confused. At what does it he saw a what did they think that they do win. Who the making a giant cost bull. It's crazy. It's a makeup weak- it must be a lot of you'll behind these. Maybe that's how i love it knowing. It's mad when you just do. The most patient is an italian accent. <hes> davinci knew a lot about medieval warfare. Here's a quote that speaks to his military acumen. He wrote when a place is besieged. I know how to cut off water from the trenches and construct an infinite variety of bridges mantel. It's scaling ladders other instruments pertaining to sieges. I also have types of mortars that are very convenient and easy to transport support when a place cannot be reduced by the method bombardment either because of its height or its location. I have method for destroying any fortress or other stronghold even if it'd be founded upon on rock if the engagement be it see i have many engines of a kind most efficient for offense and defense and ships that can resist cannons and powder all right right in my god in addition to being a super talented intelligence. Dude also had no shortage confidence. You had to go to win the battle. It's the simple as you need a giant of fuckin- and cost i got i got that you want to tank. I got you a tank. I believe believe me there are ways to do you want you want to know about it. Believe me here can get you a tank or by three o'clock this afternoon. You need a chair with a bunch of giant sized spinning around cutting everything or to shake out. I don't recommend it because it's very hard to control <music> but i can do that. A rocket launcher attack the beam to knew what the fuck over. I can do a dollar baby davinci now should i'm in the middle title of a few contracts at the moment but i can wake away. I can walk away from us should easy. I don't think he would the falko about the finishing campaigns individuals and babies and i do all of the time and yes big lebowski fans. I did try to sneak walter parody in the middle of that. You want to tell you you told by noon you till about three o'clock jesus walter in four hundred five play took over milan where leonardo was living and working leonardo survived but outbreaks of the disease killed some fifty thousand people a full third of the city's population and all these deaths inspired the renaissance man to design concepts for a future city that he illuminated series of drawings and notations completed between fourteen eighty seven forty nine hundred more on that in a second and fourteen eighty seven leonardo withdraw one of his most recognizable images the iconic truyen man to company by notes based based on the work of a trivia a first century b._c. Roman military architect author and civil engineer the drawing which is an ink and on <hes> which is in pen and ink on paper depicts a male figure in to superimpose positions with his arms and legs apart simultaneously inscribed in a circle square. The drawing texture sometimes called the canon canon of proportions or less often proportions of man. They're stored in the gallery. Del academia in venice italy and like most works on paper displayed only occasionally the drawing is based on the correlations of ideal human proportions with geometry described by the ancient rome of attributes the tribe's described the human figures being the principal source of proportion among the classical orders of architecture other artists attempted to depict the concept with less success. The drawing is traditionally named in honor of this architect leonardo's famous drawings of the tribune proportions of a man's body i and inscribed square and then with feet and arms outspread inscribed circle provide an excellent early example of the way in which his studies proportion would would fuse and scientific objectives is leonardo not attributes you point out that if you open the leg so as to reduce the stature by one fourteenth and open and raise as your arms so that the middle fingers touch the lines the top of the head no that the center of the extremities of the outspread limbs will be the biggest and the space between the legs will. We'll make an equilateral triangle and you know what i under. I understand all that. I i do sure i do. I get it eighty degree. Yeah i was thinking a lot of the the same things when i looked at i got to be the middle. You know what i mean and you gotta have squares and triangles to make it all all work. That's moving along fourteen eighty eight in response to the plague. Leonardo finishes designs on that ideal city. I mentioned the renaissance concept with the ideal city expressed by leonardo in his rigorously geometric urban planning envisioned vision two signature features of this future city a network of canals that would support both commerce and better sanitation that would lead to less outbreaks of disease the vertical division of the city itself itself into as many as three different tiers each for a different purpose the radical vision essentially what are required either the founding of brand new city perfectly located on site featuring large rivers or existing said it to be entirely rebuilt not surprised and it is a city dreamed went unrealized leonardo conceived of buildings as hydraulic hydraulic machines which distributed water and all the rooms of the house as well as in the artesian workshops through mechanical lifting system and the workshops. The energy released in this way was used to drive various types of machines. I mean fuck man. He basically was like trying to have a mechanical city way back in the fifteenth century so called he was even just thinking about things like that always thinking oh he's dreaming <hes> you know the jokes may not have suited him but i do think davinci would like the spirit of time suck hailed a vinci davinci's inventions continue between fourteen hundred four twenty nine leonardo's sketches the designed for his first flying machine in fast as with flying leonardo temperature combine the dynamic potential of the human body with an imitation of natural flight and is not sites bats kites and other birds as models to imitate he even refers to his flying machine as the great bird he wrote an object offers as much resistance to the air as the air does to the object you may see that the beaten of its wings against the air supports a heavy eagle in the highest rarest atmosphere here close to the sphere of elemental fire again you may see the air and motion over the c fill the swilling sales and drive heavily laden ships from these instances and the reasons given a man with wings large enough and duly connected might learn to overcome the resistance of the air and by concrete succeeded in subjugating it and rising above jesus really was such a genius with at work no not that design but it wasn't his final attempt at a flight machine sometime from fourteen to eight fourteen ninety leonardo's the sketches the design for a double decker bridge surprisingly modern it recalls the function of bridges in some modern metropolises where the two way flow of traffic arranged on different levels leonardo's doesn't mention what this was actually four but it is clear that it is a way of organizing to circulation system in such a way that doesn't create traffic jams or obstructions <hes> while da vinci was inventing cars planes tanks bridges and fucking cities he was also still into painting leonardo would paint is famous lady with an remain remain from four hundred eighty nine to fourteen ninety and by the way is a cute little short tailed white weasel their tiny less than a pound. One leonardo's notebooks was a competitive animals where where he made notes about different species and of the earning he wrote the out of moderation never eats but once a day and it would rather let itself be captured by hunters then take refuge in a dirty layer in order not to stain its purity and it is thought he included an image of this creature with the subject of the portrait identified cecilia got out get around to symbolize symbolize her purity which is funny because this portrait is probably painted a time when she was demilitarized mistress of the duke of milan leonardo was being paid to serve so the purity not of mistress slightly ironic <hes> the painting is one of only four female portraits painted by leonardo the others being mona lisa the portrait of gin gin goddamn. I'm that falcons. Ginny is one of the only word that comes up all the time this sucks. I didn't look at the pronunciation for guinevere. Whatever debenture and a long word it is displayed by the <hes> oh jesus christ displayed by the star tortoise ski museum in krakow poland and it is cited the museum guide is the first truly modern portrait. It's been in poland since seventeen ninety eight and if you're surprised polling our don't be remember polish people people can't read so they love pictures why said cited and the museum guide as the first truly modern portrait of a moment ago. I didn't mean it was written. I meant to polish museum guide points inside it and yells. That's part of lady de vinci. Did it longtime ago. He does it every thirty seconds every two hours. He's given a sausage as a reward aleppo's. If you polish hackers as i make fun of you for your limitations when i can barely say so many words fourteen eighty nine davinci also planned a wedding sir nothing he couldn't do yes to knock kidding davinci plan the wedding of duke giovanni gasio with zabala the gone in milan and fourteen eighty nine on behalf is patron patron ludovico savalas data. I should say everything and we'd accents then. At least it sounds kind of scenery. He's he's made it away. Got the milan lovely some talk about his production for the ceremony included a representation of heaven and the revolving planet's as couple walked through the display display each planet opened revealing person dressed as the deity of jesus each person resided <hes> a bellagio poem for the newlyweds and then he helped planning planning even bigger milan wedding in fourteen ninety one for the duke himself not only did he create the menu entertainment decoration he even designed what guess would wear including clued hats based on dining room layout <hes> which was a one long table with diners all set on the same side on the style of the last supper painting. He may have also composed the music to be played this wedding the evidence of davinci's composition abilities scarce but he was in charge of the music at the wedding. It's believed he knew how to compose for sure did invent a new musical instrument in fourteen ninety somewhere between forty eight fourteen thousand nine davinci's designs for something called a viola organised sta sta <hes>. I guess it could have been fourteen ninety as well. It was designed to use a friction belt to vibrate individual strings kind of like a how violin bruce out you press keys keys on a keyboard to select different strings kinda like an organ. It's a mix of piano and violin. It's now believed vinci ever built one but polish concert pianist instrument builder islam amir zuber sqi guest post people can do some pretty cool things did make one based on davinci's designed resigned in two thousand thirteen and wait to hear this. Here's a sample of this man. In two thousand thirteen plane the strange and beautiful instrument that vinci created five centuries previously <music> <music> <music> there was a few notations regarding <hes> lyrics lyrics nothing full on we don't have anything <hes> unfortunately like the full song but there was a couple of scribbles <hes>. I believe the words were supposed wants to be the spaghetti electoralism nesta. I know that i i do know that but how fucking calls that sound all of that noise from one instrument sound so full so i think multiple to me it sounds like multiple insurance are being played yeah yeah just an instrument built on plans over five hundred years old da vinci's amazing brain kept being curious and inventive in the fourteen ninety s around four hundred ninety leonardo sketch designed in for an adding machine basically an old key early type of calculator and one of the journals that particular journal be lost until the twentieth century. What a cool discovery. This is february thirteenth in nineteen sixty. Seven an amazing discovery was made by american scientists working in the national library of spain in madrid <hes> they had a chance upon to unknown works of leonardo da vinci known as the codex madrid one hundred ninety seven pages. These guys found of davinci notes that we've just been lost in this giant libraries vast inventory tori. I'm it turns out that actually lost. They were just misplaced. Like how cool would it be defined that now. Do you want to old notebooks doodles out <hes> <hes> they say property of leonardo da vinci of the front about was it worth a million billion dollars each french mathematician and inventor blase pascal scowl. He is credited with the adding machine sixteen forty two the first one diagrams and directions discovered for an even earlier at machine design. Though sixteen twenty four ville helm ca-car designed a mechanical calculator believed that two prototypes revived whereabouts remain unknown leonardo's device was a lot like pascal adding machine and he he came up with it now now because these books we know over a hundred and fifty years earlier and had davinci been able to implement this invention so many others he could have revolutionized iced the already innovative renaissance so much for that he could have single handedly advanced society in so many different ways centuries my god his work towards the goal of human flight continue the fourteen ninety s <hes> in fourteen ninety three leonardo da vinci sketches his design for his aerial screw. The world's first known designed designed for a helicopter type device leonardo da vinci credited with having i thought of a machine designed for vertical flight so he's like the guy who thought of the first helicopter the machine designs davinci's air screw dated fourteen ninety. Three again discovered that madrid library so cool. I can't imagine finding a book like that and some old archives. Life's fuck oak island that is cool buried treasure way cooler to me that a big pile of gold cooler than pirate's treasure and worth more than a bunch of gold. It's just cool to somebody. Else could find something in some monastery attic or cub inter. Maybe some other library who knows what's out there anyway. That's designed consists of a platform mm surmounted by a helical screw driven by somewhat rudimentary system kinda like the rubber powered propeller of a of a model aircraft like a kid <hes> model aircraft the a great genius wrote that if this instrument in the form of a screw was made of linen the pores of which have been stopped starch it should upon being turned sharply rise into the air in a spiral however however his design was never put into any practical use so cool how he understood through his genius years of study yet to be explained scientific principles. I mean sixteen eighty six two to full centuries later. Sir isaac newton would introduce his third law of motion summarize ask for every action in nature. There's an equal opposite reaction and davinci's description of an object offering offering much resistance to the air as the air does to the object tells me he understood this law perfectly fourteen thousand five davinci busy painting. One of his most famous works the last supper. You're the one author dan brown room from billions of paranoid people. This religious <unk> mural was created for his patron duke. <hes> milan ludovico sivarasa last <hes> supper measures fifteen feet by twenty nine feet covers the back wall of the dining hall at the unesco world heritage site in church. The santa maria della gracie in milan italy had no idea was that huge the theme was traditional one for communal eating halls leonardo's talents gave it much greater realism in depth the arches above the main painting painted with the so what is the coat of arms the opposite wall of the refectory refectory covered by crucifixion fresco painted by much less known milan-based renaissance artist giovanni johny denardo montano leonardo began working the last supper and i ninety five completed it in fourteen ninety eight however he did not work on the peace continuously throughout this period of course she didn't gain this whimsical son of a bitch just kind of stepped away from things when he felt like it <hes> as we learned in the industry the internet lots of last supper paintings were commissioned during the italian renaissance. What makes conventions work so remarkable will i the disciples are all displaying very human identifiable emotions leonardo's versions the first depict real people acting like real people secondly the technical perspective davinci displayed in the last summer set a new bar for art at the time every single element of the painting directs one's attention straight to the midpoint of the composition in christ's head too many respected art experts. The last supper is arguably the greatest example of one point perspective ever created like ever and and if i had you know even heard of one point perspective before i would probably agree but my art knowledge is limited but yeah. I guess it'd be fuck. Fuck yeah yeah yeah. I know is the best i get it cool. I didn't we didn't use stick figures. I the worst art tour guide. Yes this guy face local and and you know i like the colors and this is like a bigger painting. This guy was known for like bigger things and that's why he was more famous and <hes> he liked the blue. That's fucking <hes> cool shit anyway plus for art. Some are starting to fourteen ninety. Five leonardo also paints the second of madonna on the rocks. Dude love madonna's and he loves rocks. I don't know that about leonardo is big big guy <hes>. If i was given a tour i would include that too. That'd be like yes printed. Madan rocks 'cause <hes> get hard for rocks rocks rocks off anyway moving along the second version of the rocks is the national gallery london in <hes> we mentioned that as well earlier fourteen ninety eight the italian mathematician and francis can fire a celibate member of the catholic religious order founded by saint francis of assisi luca pecchioli who's called the father of accounting and bookkeeping composed a book called day davina proposed on the divine proportion which was illustrated by our buddy leonardo davinci. The title of the book refers to the golden ratio. What does that mean doesn't have to do with golden showers as italian how he disparages america's before you give a golden shower is that rude should extra hydrated for golden shower. She you take a regular shower before giving someone a golden shower and should they probably shower after receiving your shower so you've probably never talk about what any of this you probably never do it. It's probably not healthy. Golden ratio has nothing to do. Thank god was gold showers in the golden ratio. A. b. is to a as as to be golden. Ratio is a special number found by dividing line into two parts said the longer part divided by the smaller part is equal to the whole length divided by the longer part often symbolized by using five so nice pronounced fee the twenty first letter of the greek alphabet. Why is it important will some theorized that many leonardo's paintings employed with the golden ratio in ways that gives it gives work perspective that our brains naturally identify as looking better like more perfect somehow he was using mass to kind of trick our minds minds into finding more beauty and his work. You know you just using scientific wizard. Tricks is kinda like how babies are more drawn to faces that are more symmetrical that then those aren't they've done studies that have proven that <hes> or like how adults tend to find more symmetrical faces more attractive <hes> kind of like how banana peels or way sex you're looking you know then other fruit. You know forget about that. Last example we're trying to say is that whether we are conscious of it or not we do seek out and appreciate balance and leonardo knew that and he knew how to incorporate certain mathematic principles into his work however saying that most art historians don't think he did headed to the level some people do. They don't think he you know <hes> use the golden ratio as much art as much as others as part of the legend so nimrod wills wills me to include it in telling it to you 14.99 back on track french army invades milan leonardo leaves should build tanks should have made some is jan. Crossbows duke was overthrown which leaves now forty seven year leonardo without a patron. He traveled around italy for awhile. Maybe snuck in a little saudi on the on the down low some speculate you gotta have some kind of romantic life right. Maybe maybe not then landed in mantua before eventually returning to florence while in meant to our davinci vinci draws the portrait in profile of isabela estee famous drawing is a sketch for a portrait that was never painted despite his fragile state of conservation it is said to be one of leonardo's ardoz finest head and shoulders portraits. It is also the only known drawing by the master highlighted several color pigments it offers cool inside as well to his portrait process starting starting with a detailed sketch before moving into the actual paint starting to fourteen ninety nine leonardo draws the virgin and child with saint anne and saint john the baptist. The virgin and child was sane nine and saint john. The baptist sometimes called the burlington house cartoon. <hes> is a full size cartoon done by leonardo da vinci and i have such i feel like hopefully i'm doing this episode justice. I have such little artistic education like i've always loved it. I've always loved paintings. Specifically don't know fucking shit about them how to make come the background artists when i first came across the words burlington house cartoon. I'm not saying this joke. I actually thought he drew do some cartoons. I thought he made like some davinci. Cartoons like some kind of medieval version of sunday paper refunding like with little like word bubbles and everything. You know that that's cool bike you l. like maybe the burlington house was. Just a place for a bunch of wacky renaissance bachelor's lives big goofy grains googly eyes. You know some bearded artists guy in some in frame walks up to the burlington house all beat up bruce soaking wet and and she said i thought the killer dakota but she said killer the boat and that's why oh we crashed into the dock. Everybody laughs the next frame some horny old man from upstairs windows this leonardo da you always know how to make the ladies aware da aw everybody laughs in the next frame except for some lady who's all fucking soaked miserable from you know record on a boat. I didn't say he's going to do a good cartoon. That's just where my mind went. No in in the context of renaissance painting a cartoon refers to a full-scale preparatory drawing for a fresco oil painting or tapestry of the word we use today comes to me telling cortana which simply means a large paper or card so bummer. You didn't do cartoon. The burlington house cartoon combines two popular themes in florentine painting in the fifteenth century. The virgin asian mary and the child was saint baptist or same same baptist saint john the baptist any version and a child was saint. Anne charlie hangs the national gallery in london. There's there's a subtle interplay between the gazes of the four figures with saint ann's smiled and her daughter mary will mary's is or fixed on her son. As our saint john's there is little in the way of clear delineation between the four bodies as the head of the two women in particular look like growths on the same body saint ann's in nick matic gesture appoint her index finger towards the heavens recurs to leonardo charters last paintings says saint john the baptist and bacchus and is regarded as the quintessential leonardo esque gesture drawing in charcoal and black and white chalk covers. There's eight sheets of paper glued together unusual for cartoon. The outlines have never been pricked or incised indicating that the stage of transferring the design to the panel that would be painted on was is not reached the worst title bryan cartoon refers to its home at the royal academy until nineteen sixty two when it was put on sale for eight hundred thousand pounds which is crazy for like a very unfinished unfinished work that much in nineteen eighty-seven the roads now's cartoon was attacked in an active vandalism was sawed off shotgun. The blast caused significant damage despite not fully penetrating penetrating the canvas after shattering the glass covering but has since been restored the shooter was robert cambridge who claimed he committed this act in order to bring attention to political social and economic conditions in britain he did not he did it because he was extremely mentally. Ill speaking of guns. Leonardo may have drawn designs for the world's first machine gun at least the first drawing of machine gun around fifteen hundred see da vinci sketched in one of his notebooks designed for what can only be called a machine gun. Leonardo also wanted to increase <hes> he wanted to increase the rate of bullets that could be fired at one time so he designed machines with multiple cannons so they can be fired successively or altogether. He ended up driving to different machine. Gun type type design illustrative weapons used racks of eleven or fourteen different guns while the top row is being fired. The next rack was loaded simultaneously a third racket. Be cooling off off another design had the guns in the triangle spread out for greater distribution of their projectiles by leonardo would find a new job and become <hes> but jonah is head military engineer the military engineer in romagna former province in northern italy artists wedding planner musical instrument inventor inventors vinter so many other things he could he used he probably gonna juggle forty seven balls at one time if he's alive he'll be people magazine's sexiest man alive probability hit a receiver mid strides wanna football three hundred yards and as dick probably saying beautiful songs when it came. I just finished i._s._p. This now go into sleep. Yeah that would be what dick would say <hes> leonardo would travel around the region inspecting fortifications on behalf of our for his new job. Cinzano pasha was sort of a big deal himself by the way miss laughing at all these fucking words love these episodes when they get on paper when when i'm going over and preparation and preparation process have all these pronunciation notes all over like yeah fuck got this can be so easy. I'll say a few sentences here and there out loud yeah got at this and then i go to record my brain's good luck dummy it just like god damn it twenty five thousand words in about about ten today's episode honestly over over over twenty five thousand words and it feels like ten thousand of them are just like oh no <hes> she's outta bhattacharya sort of b._d._o. Himself borja was duke of valentine. Wa was an italian military leader plus. A nobleman politician cardinal ordinal borgia also has happened to pope alexander the six and his long term mistress suzeta baweja fights his fight for power beat a major inspiration for machiavelli's of elis. I like that word great work. The prince while working for zsa leonardo built a canal from susanna to puerto fucking something porto. It is an article this can still exists is the only canal or used daily in the town of manja speaking of machiavelli. There was a time when dementia vinci and machiavelli would put their minds together and plotted steeler river. Leonardo da vinci has resided at borjas court when the great niccolo machiavelli came to visit the gifted author poet what philosopher playwright father of modern political science and more another brilliant renaissance man machiavelli is the man behind the term machiavellian an adjective meaning cunning scheming and unscrupulous us especially in politics or advancing one's career davinci machiavelli fifty to fifty north three working together to do some shady shit they hatch a brilliant scheme to make florence rich and screw over florentine rival city city state pisa once and for all they actually tried to steal the river arno. I think is amazing. Fuck a bank heist. They try a river heist. The river arno was the main water source for both florence and pizza by stealing the arnold machiavelli and eventually hope to not only deprive pisa of the ability to grow their own crops bathe in stay alive but also better irrigate farmlands of florence and turn a profit by selling the water to local farmers additionally the water would be diverted into into a series of canals it would make it possible for ships to sail from florence out to the mediterranean very ambitious plan stealing the would spell wells for florence and would spell death for for pisa. I feel like the phrase go big or go. Home was written about davinci. Dude went real big with some designs and plants and they actually set out too big to make this it happened. Davinci gleefully said about making plans involve tunneling under mountain moving millions of tons of dirt and it would require fifty thousand workers leonardo proposed construction of one wide channel deeper than the arno itself which when combined with the dam would divert the entirety of the river away from pisa and into some nearby marshland the channel was intended to be eighty feet wide at its mouth sixty four feet wide and thirty feet deep and a mile long big project and they did give it a go once machiavelli signed off on the idea davinci's plans went to an engineer named casino who frankly just wasn't smart enough to carry out davinci's vision instead of digging one massive <unk> vincis plan colombia no decided it was easier to build too shallow trenches and let the river erode into one of them or wrote them into one canal columbia alameda also underestimated the amount of time and then he would need to build these two canals buck and callum beano. I knew i didn't like that asshole now. I know why columbia construction plans fails yeah. The arno destroys his two canals and more or less the river stays on its natural course maquiavelian davinci partways never attempting to revisit this insane project again while planning adding that river-diversion leonardo. Also you know nobody whoops designed. Several machines just invented several new things to help make digging and moving easier disguises showed off his point but honestly that's amazing easy like what if they would have done that would pull that off you know down there in pisa and all of a sudden river goes dry what what did he. We go up there. He stole rivera. He's working with them. Bows inner around fifty one or fifty two leonardo da vinci made a sketch a giant single single span bridge that was to be built be built over the golden horn a natural inlet of the boss boss for a straight divide in the city of constantinople present day instanbul instanbul. It was to be part of silla near project for sultan by the second. Everyone wanted peace. This guy's brain the massive bridge was to be seventy two feet wide twenty four meters meters thousand eight hundred total links three hundred sixty meters one hundred twenty feet forty meters above the sea level the highest point of the span. This'll be the first time in history that such a long single span bridge bridge had ever been proposed. The construction methods needed to build such a structure <hes> wouldn't even come into existence for three hundred years consequently. The bridge could not be built. It was just too advanced for the builders of the time to carry out his vision for five hundred years. Leonardo's graceful design remained at obscure tiny drawn in the corner one of his you you know many notebooks until nineteen sixty six when a contemporary norwegian artist bjarne sand saw the drawing an exhibition of one of leonardo's engineering during designs or some of them sam assan was impressed by it so impressed by when he returns oslo he proposes that the norwegian public roads undertaking construction of this project for the next few years via born sawn devoted his time and effort to transform the artaud bridge project from a dream into a reality in two thousand one a small pedestrian footbridge based on the ardoz original original design was built near the town of funny letter a._s. In norway on highway eighteen linking oslo and stockholm leonardo's golden home bridge design is a perfect pressed bo leonardo surmised correctly that the classic keystone arched could be stretched narrow and substantially widened without losing integrity but he's gonna flared foothold old or peer and the terrain anchor each end of the span again amazingly. This was conceived by this dude. Three hundred years prior to its engineering principles being generally accepted. I i mean you can see why the ancient astronaut theorists loved davinci. I mean if you could cloned himself. He could he could have move the world forward a few hundred years and a crazy amount always in fifteen dollars three leonardo's some more painting and florence some time around october fifteen threes commission to paint a mural of the battle of jetty in the reese got that one and the recently rebuilt great call of the plaza vecchio flagging mailing it now and florence during the first years of the republican government he would finish his ambitious and reportedly difficult the project and fifty five the battle of the jani sometimes referred to as the loss leonardo some commentators believe it's still hidden beneath later frescoes in the hall of five hundred and the plots lots of luck vecchio it central seemed to pick the three men riding raging war horses engage in battle for <hes> for something <hes> engaged in battle for what will future technology allowed art historians to find it and if it's their removed paintings place on top it without damaging it time will tell if davinci himself lived today. He probably already had this figured out. <hes> three also the year that leonardo finishes the most famous painting on earth thomas k. d. peaceful retreat wait i mean van gogh's starry night. No i mean the mona lisa also known as legit legit a la jar conduct luxair aja login fucking stanton mona lisa. It's it's also known as the each <hes>. She's a beautiful lady. The mona lisa owned by the government of france and his on the the wall and the louvre in paris with the title portrait of lisa g got on dini wife offense esco dale jr condo. The painting is half linked portrait depicts a woman who's expressions often described as matic the ambiguity of the expression the monument of the half figure composition the subtle modeling of forms and atmospherics illusion ism were novel qualities that have contributed to the paintings continuing fascination few of the works of art have been subject to so much scrutiny study mythology ising conspiracies and parody historian donald soon catalog the growth of the paintings fame during the mid eighteen hundreds feel file got ta and the romantic poets were able to write right about mona lisa as a fem fatale because lisa was an ordinary person. Mona lisa was an open text into which one can read that when wanted or what wanted probably because she was not a religious image and probably because the literary gazers were mainly men who subjected her to an endless stream of male fantasies so listen guys jerking off the mona lisa which is hard to imagine today. She didn't exactly use sex appeal but guess <hes> you know be disney out of the beholder. <hes> the painting really became famous in nineteen eleven italian handyman named vincenzo paducah stolen from the louvre. <hes> vincenza was the guy who helped construct the paintings glass case and he stole his painting by walking into the museum during regular hours hiding a broom closet and then just walking fuck out when the painting <hes> you know or after hours with a painting hidden under his coat simple ingenious last week sucker jesse james would have approved or maybe not. Maybe you know maybe it's been two sneaky for him. Maybe jesse james wrote up guns drawn shot anyone refusing to giving the painting and self-defense pre was an italian patriot who believed that leonardo's paintings means should have been returned to an italian museum also a guy who wanted to make a ton of money selling it in the second part was his primary motivation. He <hes> hid the painting department for two years. The world looked for it in the mona. Lisa fame grew then he got caught trying to sell to the pizza gallery in florence from december nineteen sixty two march nineteen sixty three the french government lent the united states to be split in new york city washington dc in nineteen seventy four and then the painting was exhibited in tokyo and moscow after that between before the nineteen sixty to nineteen sixty sixty three tour the painting was assessed for insurance purposes being valued at one hundred million. No one really knows how much the pain is worth. Two thousand fourteen a french tv station suggested it could be sold to ease the french national debt and it was speculated to be valued at two and a half billion dollars wow and by the way no one really knows who mona lisa was us. She's thought to be young. Florentine woman mono- or mona lisa who in fourteen ninety five married francesco della condo a wealthy silk merchant and thus came to would be known as la deconda okay. I got it that time on july nine fifty four at the age of seventy seven sapiro leonardo's father dies sapiro dive will work in his notary influence no big barrel funeral for him that we know of no records that have been found so leonardo may not have attended because he not it was not not directly a part of the family. He gained nothing in an inheritance. Did davinci have some kind of falling houses. Dad was yet his signs. Dad passed just wasn't recorded. We don't know again. Davinci wrote next to nothing about his private life and the bar ballpark of fifty five leonardo makes an attempt to build another flying machine by about fifty five fifty three year old leonardo have been and thinking about how to fly for roughly twenty years something he built a complex ornithology her a machine with flapping wings too closely mimic the anatomy birds fifty five. No one really knows if leonardo actually actually built a model of untested is off to or not but it's fun to imagine him giving it a go years later in fifteen fifty one of his associates care donnas did write that a traitor that is teacher heater tried in vain to get an ornithologist off the ground so i guess there's a possibility the renaissance man you know took his machine out for a few disastrous spins and may may a fifty six leonardo is summoned by to milan by charles de umbrellas the french governor and in fifteen o seven leonardo's appointed french king louis the twelfth painter and engineer in fifteen fifteen. Oh wait leonardo da vinci painting the virgin and child with saint anne and lamb <hes> fame psychiatrist sigmund freud would later seal kinds of symbolism hidden in this painting claiming to see a vulture a hidden in the painting that somehow represented vincis passive homosexuality when i look at it i see a hidden donut which represents my current attempt to get back on a low carb died died after eating several donors last week and really wanting more donuts this week and don't make me feel happy. When i get sad about say stuff in fifteen ten fifteen eleven leonardo da vinci collaborates with renaissance professor of anatomy mark dantonio dilatory lecture at the university of papua university of dua on a work of theoretical anatomy as an artist leonardo was a master of <hes> topographic anatomy drawing many studies of muscles tendons other visible in that anatomical features he was given permission to dissect human corpses at the hospital of santa me and the waiver in florence and later at hospitals in milan and rome together with marcantonio toyota a theoretical work on anatomy emmy for which leonardo made more than two hundred joins published only in sixteen eighty one hundred sixty one years after his death under the title treats on painting its purpose purpose was to teach students how to draw more realistic human animal figures by understanding the you know the organs muscles bones and everything tendons that lie beneath our skin leonardo drew many studies as of the human skeleton and it's part as well as muscles and sinews the heart and vascular system the sex organs other internal organs he even made one of the first scientific drawings of a fetus fetus in utero as an artist are closely observed or recorded the effects of age and of human emotion on the physiology studying in particular the effects of rage <hes> he also drew many figures who had significant facial deformities or signs of illness he also drew a studied and drew many other animals as well dissecting cows birds monkeys monkeys bears and frogs comparing in his drawings their anatomical structure with that of humans also made a number of studies of horses. <hes> this book now exist at the elmer belt library u._c._l._a. In los angeles elmer belt pioneer and sex reassignment surgery and collector of everything da vinci he could get his hands on afford a leonardo da vinci paint saint john the baptist fifteen fifteen when he's sixty three an oil painting a walnut wood or on walnut would believe to be davinci's last painting and saw sixty nine fifty seven centimeters little guy guy lewis guy now exhibited at the louvre in paris peace to pick saint john the baptist nice latian saint john pelts long curly hair smiling in in in in in ign- matic in jesus christ indyk matic manner reminiscing of leonardo's famous leader. <hes> also looks like kenny g. like a. lot at saint. John looks a lot like energy painting. <hes> have fun trying to not think about that. If you ever look at it <hes> from september fifteen thirteen to fifteen sixty leonardo spent much of of his time living in the belvedere in the vatican in rome where raphael and michelangelo or both active pretty sweet just three teenage mutant ninja turtles children the vatican. Nobody whoop three the greatest artist of all time she didn't shit that's all also fifteen fifteen francis. The first takes thrown in france <hes> and on december nineteenth fifteen fifteen leonardo meets with francis the first pope leo the tenth so you know it's kinda famous ship kind of a big deal beaten up with the king you know france and the pope having some wine and some cheese take any liens out measure them making the guy with the smallest one running naked lap around the palace being bruce following year francis the first commissions d._n._c. to build a robot not kidding he wanted a robot lion or at least mechanical ones so we asked the greatest wizard live to make it for him and then leonardo did indeed build a mechanical lion for the coronation of the king of france he built his mechanical chemical line with the ability to walk and upon reaching his destination open a compartment in is fully automated chest revealing a florida a stylized lily league honor of the french monarchy unsurprisingly <hes> the line was lost destroyed some point history god bummer in two thousand nine another mechanical tinker run out the door but at o. drew inspiration from davinci's line made his own version based on davinci's plans which walked swayed his tail moves jaws. I had a secret compartment that opened the <hes> to really florida. I mean swedish. No wonder some people think this guy was new money. He made a walking robot line and fifteen fifteen. I watched a video. The replica walk around his fucking mind-blowing. That's like the biggest. Most elaborate kids wind up till you've ever seen <hes> guessing. The king of france was more than a little impressed in fifteen sixteen. He gives da vinci use of a manor house near the king's own royal residence at the chateau and wa and davinci spent the last three years as life living here in luxury on a comfortable stipend company by his friend and apprentice twenty five year old count francesco melody francesco mosey while not well known go on to be a bad ass artists of his own after davinci's death breath returning to italy getting married and having eight kids and then leonardo da vinci dies on may second fifteen thousand nine hundred eighty seven king francis the first to become a close friend end the famous artists in store in giorgio assadi records at the king held leonardo's head in his arms as he died although the story may be more legend than fact act. I'm gonna choose to believe it because i really like it. In his last days in auto sent for a priest to make his confession and receive the holy sacrament he was buried the chapel of saint <hes> huber in the chateau. Oh damn well. That was unfortunately demolished. In the early nineteenth century an excavation decades later turned up bones that were believed to be leonardo's inscription notes carefully. The site holds the art what is presumed remains davinci's pu pupil francesco melody the only of davinci students to stay with him until death was he principal heir and executor receiving his money final final paintings tools library and other personal effects and his death leonardo did also remember other longtime pune companion salai and his servant batista a day <hes> velocities who each received half of leonardo's vineyards and some of his half brothers did receive some land. Why never really wrote about him again again. So little is known about his private life. He did have nine half brothers and three half sisters. We don't know how close he was to any of them. Finally a serving woman received a single black cloak guessing. There's a story behind that that will never know i._b._m. Story you know she might just made one comment sweet coat and it was the day he happened to write in his willing to laugh okay. I'll i'll give it to you. Upon davinci's death is contemporary and other renaissance man named named benedetto cellini who was an italian goldsmith sculptor draftsman soldier musician artists author settling ardo. There had never been another man born in the world who knew as much as leonardo. I think that's enough for today's time. Suck time good job up shoulder. You've made it back then what life my god the legacy leonardo motherfucking davinci insanely vast from the world's most renowned painter to an inventor hundreds of years ahead of his time to a military strategist outages who plotted to steal a river and could have quite possibly pulled it off the guy truly one of the world's great genius. This is listen. This guy's interest real quick scientists scientists mathematician engineer inventor anatomist painter sculptor architect wedding planner musician teacher robot line maker wizard time traveler ninja juggler model train enthusiast civil war reenactor film director he started in season two of stranger things play the giant monster monster not sure last few but it seems possible. How the hell do all that well. He didn't have kids get married. That's how i think that's a real lesson day. If you want accomplish hawkish dumping great you keep your dick giants or you gotta. Keep your vagina free. Addicts founded have kids fighting and have wife. I saved perfectly now. I thought the real lesson that's not the real lesson at all but leading what seemed like a solitary life did allow him to <hes> you know follow. His artistic whims a little easier. The real thing is if you want to accomplish all the did you gotta be curious. This could be real. Curious got to be willing to take risks. Get work really really hard batat by the best be born in the right place at the right time in the right situation with right parents and have what may have been the haiku seculow time you know in shorts short look. Does you know like we barely had time to look into the highly scientific mind to this incredible man as a scientist. He greatly advanced. It's a state of knowledge in the fields of anatomy civil engineering optics hydrodynamics as well as outlined a rudimentary theory of plate tectonics covered so much shit today needed so much more or maybe the most diversely talented human to ever live as engineer. His ideas were vastly out of their time. You know conceptualize tanks some say cars concentrated solar power for a calculator submarine double whole number of flying machines like gliders and helicopter invented the first practical ball bearings relatively few designs were ever constructed through even feasible to construct during his lifetime but some of the smaller inventions such as an automated bobbin winder machine for testing the tensile strength of wired did enter the world of manufacturing rain in two thousand sixteen time researchers used historic records to identify thirty five living descendants of leonardo only on his father's side those living relatives include oscar-nominated occur nominated italian director franco zeffirelli was really <hes> perhaps most famous for his nineteen sixty eight film romeo and juliet. I've looked into it so i'm soom. Maybe i'm another senate. My twenty three meter dolts do include point six percent of me being broadly european so maybe i like to think that i did inherit his little talent for being able to have cartoonish accents. It's to me <hes> leonardo and she to make a lot of things alex. Take a the lion melissa. I'm making so many the skills. I make spaghetti pizza pie with opinions from the browser. Let's go go now to the top five or takeaways. Let me time away way number. One despite all of the many many talented davinci his paintings are what he's best remembered for debate still john five hundred years after davinci's death over which the arriving pains are actually davinci's works too many collaborations even the salvator mundi not considered a true da vinci by some respected experts on renaissance art still sold for almost half a billion dollars might be davinci's work number too. Many davinci sketches and inventions were designed for military use even though few made it to the battlefield from our tanks. Thanks giant crossbows multi-candidate type devices. Leonardo wisconsin created new ways to meet sac number. Three davinci was obsessed with flight. No one knows if he ever succeeded in taking flight but his aerial screw gliders and dr were sweet fucking attempts especially for someone who lived over five hundred years ago. I can't even make a decent recent paper. Airplane always ended with tiny wing at one kind of big clunky wing and they really make it across through needs. Just kind of spin down to the floor. Davinci could probably make a paper airplane. They could fly you know clear across the midwest in one shot. You probably have passengers on it now. Number four da vinci was a bastard literally. His mother may have been a slave. He was born in a good time to be you bastard but still i love the despite having wealthy father historians still feels like the story of an underdog makes it a pinch more inspiring hail. The underdog praise bojangles our very own underdog number five new info. Let's look to more sweet inventions. I didn't mention i how about a military diving suit designed hundreds of years before modern scuba gear or working in venice the water city in fifteen hundred venture design scuba gear for sneak attacks on enemy ships. The leather diving suit was equipped with the bag like mask that went over the diver's head attached attached to the mask around the nose area to kane tubes lead up to a cork diving bell floating on the surface air was provided for the opening of the tube to the dire below the mask also was equipped equipped with a valve operated balloon could inflated or deflated. The diver could more easily service inc. Additionally leonardo davinci scuba gear invention inc a pouch for the diver already urinated davinci's idea for scuba gear didn't become well known until his famous famous codex atlantic his twelve volume set of his drawings and notes published after his death or bound <hes> wasn't until the middle of the twentieth century the jacques cousteau and engineer a meal <hes> gagnon invented the aqualung or modern scuba suit so many many of davinci's inventions were so far ahead of his time but it's designed for a humanoid robot might have been the most futuristic davinci invented a robotic night they can wave its arms move. Its neck even open and close his mouth. The strange doll was controlled externally by cables operate with a hand crank as as well as by an internal gear driven urban ancient machine about four hundred and fifty years after da vinci design his robotic night is detailed sketches of the inventions were rediscovered. This contraption made from a suit of armor pack. The springs gears pulleys could reportedly sit stand. Walking raises arms mark rush. I'm a robot assists to his built. Robotic systems for nasa heard of it lockheed martin martin okay whatever built a working model of davinci's robotic night in two thousand and two mark ross. I'm <hes> russia researched researched leonardo's robot obsessively because certain robotic pieces like the wrist joints are very difficult to build today and they were so well designed by da vinci five centuries ago the russia incorporated some of davinci's elements <hes> you know into a modern robot robot hugh some of the elements that went into robot night davinci made into a modern robot he was working on for nasa to possible the us in the international space station fucking real a nasa robot assist still learning from davinci hail davinci time it all right highly talented possibly ancient alien leonardo da vinci has been sucked worked leonardo da vinci which could met him and again. If i fumble more than usual it wasn't from lack of effort. Thanks time so team. Thanks to the queen of the suck lindsey comments high. I priest of the sock harmony veldkamp reverend dr joe horse koch johnson paisley. Thanks to the bit elixir app design crew new update charlie in a final beta test loved loved my beta version. Thanks to access apparel script keepers <unk> flannery <hes> thanks everyone checking links in the episode description bounce out to discord in our facebook culture the curious private facebook group for further interaction and fellowship with fellow cult members next week a return to true crime shit the dirtbag do of henry lucas otis tool. Those are names. I can say right every time running away for inspiration next week. Indulging the morbid curiosity so many of us share when it comes to crime henry henry lucas notice tool or either some of the worst serial killers in american history or a pair of terrible liars they claim to travel across america murdering raping burning even cannibalizing everyone who crossed their pass and henry lucas is to be believed. They killed dallas. The two men met in one thousand nine hundred six soup kitchen fell in love before nightfall. Lucas basically moved into tools home shared his bed. They both claim to have been murderers before they met and then go on to murder many more together both were horrifically abused as children. Lucas ended up killing his on mom in retaliation for abuse mother. Go in that direction again after meeting the to travel across twenty states masquerade as many people as they could find preying upon hitchhikers shakers prostitutes migrant workers more or did they when they both were eventually arrested. They ended up talking a lot to police about what they've done and then they talk some more instill some more and some more again they basically confessed eventually to every unsolved murder that had happened during their lifetimes lucas in particular confessed murderer couldn't possibly committed like he confessed over like a thousand. How's immerse he for sure lied about some of them but did he lie about all of them. Did they go to jail for murder. They didn't commit or were. They actually almost as bad as they were pretending to be. It's a dark tail and after looking into it. It sure seems like they did do for sure a lot of unbelievably horrible things. Are they going to be as bad as our fish. Toy box killer even worse find out next monday. Find out what the colt has been up to right now with today's time sucker updates the times starting off with an update truly made me laugh out loud. I read a apache say jack update not kidding time soccer michael. Leave your last name out to keep you from possibly get some trouble. F-r-o-t-h insane deadheads sucker duggar. I hear you are looking for some dirt on that awful man with spelling show pat say jack. I grew up in the town pad. Save jack lives in maryland so here's the dirt was addicted me. When i was sixteen years old in two thousand eight it was when i worked at a local grocery store which happened to be across from his rich neighborhood. One day. I was refilling yogurt yogurt when i spotted a man in sunglasses and a hat staring at the yogurt down the aisle for way too long so i saddled up to the guy as needed any help that's when out of no where he just yelled at me about how he doesn't need help. He's in there all the time and then he says and i quote. Don't you know how much money i donate this community. He yells at me briefly and storms off another part of store. I immediately recognized him when he turns yellow me fucking pat say jack to this day. I don't know why why he decided to yell at me for trying to do my job and why he had to bring up his community so there you go pat say jake is dick now when you mentioned he's a mantra on the show you you can least know that he was a monster of source at least once thanks for such a great show for history nerd to laugh and learn at p._s. His son in the same age and i knew him he was a cocky ass who thought it was the greatest baseball player ever and drove porsche age of sixty. Well thank you michael. I got to say it is strangely. Reassuring to know that say jack is imperfect and he's not asir. He's not the monster joked about. He's not a saint. No guy didn't like to be fucked with scoping out some of that you know some of that yogurt stinking about his yogurt you know he's what is he going to get zenia blackberry. Gonna get greek. You throw yo you know then apparently interrupted that thought process fucking snapped a little bit. Maybe angry frustrated time sticker. Mitch browning rounding writes in about some tech issues mitch writes. Hey guys. I'm a huge fan of time so i've been since the beginning thanks for all the effort you're team puts into each episode some point and riding his ask. If you know why haven't been getting the last few episodes on my google play account. I have an android phone and it appears that i've been getting last year episode stagger between each other. I never got episodes. One forty eight one fifty one one fifty three you. You know what's going on. Please let me know thanks for all you do loyal time sukkur mitch brownie <hes> mitch sorry having trouble. <hes> let me just start by saying google. Play fucking sucks in my opinion is the worst podcast player out there. I hate it so much. Tru-truly over the course of the show with the secret suck and with the app had more problems with with the google play store than with anything else than with any third party athen with apple which is crazy to me because google is a huge company almost limitless technical support capabilities but when it comes to podcast podcast they don't give a shit. The customer service is almost nonexistent. They don't get back to podcast providers. When are you know are are s feed fucks up on google play the only only place it is fucked up and like the last two years. Luckily there's a ton of other free options. Podcast addict is a good app on android cashbox seems to be good stitcher works great spotify a lot of fireworks great. We have the time gap. We have a major update coming out soon. The based on the beta version. I've had for weeks is better than all of those not going to be. I think so so good sorry about google play not that we can do on our end <hes> i would recommend ditching that and grabbing one of the many other awesome players out there that don't have problems hail nimrod <hes> jesse james gang relatives update coming in from yeah yeah yeah sucker daniel aims daniel writes dear master sucker. This is rocco aims okay. I think it's a daniel on on the email for some reason anyway. This is rocco aims again writing with small jesse james suck date. You mentioned that one of your relatives cummins was affiliate by the yeah. We did jim well. We haven't been in common my biological father whom you mentioned in a previous edna rain worn update. Excuse me has provided me with an unpublished photo of bloody bill. Well anderson claims him to be my four times great uncle apparently my biological grandmother had some genealogy down back in the early nineteen nineties through some nonprofit. They were able the dig this information along with the photo day identified. There was an old box of our family photos who knows if it's a hundred percent true but we may have a photo somewhere of our ancestors smashing some cheap moonshine moonshine together keep up the great work hale nimrod hilas fina praise at sweet boy bojangles and most of all hail you the baddest at the very nice p._s. Tell pacey. There's no shame in his big or not so big dick game that is that's amazing. Rocco <hes> small world. Yeah sounds like your ancestor mind probably did throwbacks moonshine together after doing some horrible horrible outlaw shit and i'm guessing your relation may made my relation a wee bit nervous. I didn't realize more into my relation because of your message that another one of my relatives electives are telecom was the wife of bob ford. The guy who shot jesse james windy jim bill gates those maniacs out to be related to someone and related to us. Thanks for writing in you. Fell outlaw descended and i think pays eugene okay. He seems alright horse cocker or micro pain whatever he's got cute kids and a beautiful wife so you know could be worse. I think he's too worried about as wayne finally touching vaccination update from ryan last name non mus who writes you can read this on the part. If you want but please leave my last name out. I wanted to thank you. I just finished listening to the episode about vaccinations was finally inspired to do my own research. I live in an area that surprisingly full all of anti vaxxers. I have been on the fence about whether or not to vaccinate my firstborn son due in october after listening to this episode. I started really looking into study. Scientific ones not just the ones usually referenced in my neck of the woods that are mostly essays written by religious people for the first time. I noticed just how much evidence there is to support vaccines being a much safer option. I showed some of the research i found on my own and studies you reference to my wife and she and i are in agreement that we will be vaccinated in our son and have a vaccine plan set up with our pediatrician. I wanted to say thank you for doing the re the episode because without you odds are i never would have heard just how much science there is to support vaccines and you may have helped say my son's life. It may sound stupid that i ever considered giving them a new father and just trying to do as best my son and all we ever hear around here. Vaccines give kids seizures or autism and and i've even heard from people i know very well they have heard vaccines cause aids and with all false information fear being put out there. It's scary to think about how many times i was. I put my son in harm hardaway or might have put my son in harm's way had i not looked into vaccinations more. I've always been pretty gullible willing to follow whatever information is put in in front of me without looking into it myself. My son in this podcast have both inspired me to become more analytical and i hope that maybe someday i myself voice of reason to someone in my situation sorry for the awful grammar grammar. I never got higher than c grammar class. Thanks for everything you do. Keep spreading knowledge. Keep a third eye open hail niran keep on well. It's heavy shit ryan and real quick. <hes> your grammar was top notch these i think so. I don't have a ton of grammar conference myself. Your grammar abilities are easily four hundred times greater than my pronunciation nation-building. <hes> i respect the shit out of your strong desire to be an amazing father man <hes>. You sound like an awesome dude hope. I hope i steer right when i really love is. He didn't trust me. Either needed additional research yourself can't stress how important that is no one should take what anyone else says it face value when it comes to celebrate his important society in which needles sticking their child. I do the best best job. I can say words spreading. What i feel is the most active. I can't but inevitably goddamn. I should say i let it was literally was going to say inevitably blay. I fuck up and i fucked up toward negatively. Truly i fuck it all the time and you should not based any life decision off of any of the shit that comes out of my mouth without doing a lot of extra digging. I you know when i wanna spread most on this show is not <hes> not total agassi curiosity and just you know an analytical approach to life you know some kind of a version of what davinci had the curiosity to figure out how our world works just try to figure out how how things work why things are being said. Take things seriously you know it takes time to look into stoppers worth it. The more you learn the better decisions you make the better your life is going to be. I do believe that to be true with every refinement of my bean and i'm so so grateful that i was able to spread that curiosity virus to you so ask questions verify <hes> information ryan. I love it learn to discern good sources from bad sources. Thing critically makes solid decisions. Make the most out of your journeys around the beautiful son and and <hes> you know and and do the best job you can to to give your kids the best chance of having the best life they can love this colts. Thanks time we all did have a great week. Everyone get out there. Bent something amazing. Create something beautiful or you know. If you don't wanna do those things maybe you can subscribe to the new scared to death podcast mugging and the key banana suck can achieve on a sock it as much to come <music> so sound listen guys jerking off the mona lisa.

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Top of the Pods: Leonardothe Salvator Mundi saga

The Art Newspaper Weekly

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Top of the Pods: Leonardothe Salvator Mundi saga

"The newspaper put coast is brought to you in association with bonhams auctioneers since seventeen ninety three to find out more visit bombs dot com hello and welcome to another top of the pods a series of episodes in which we look back over the highlights of two hundred interviews we've done since we lost the newspaper podcast in september two thousand seventeen this week we're looking at what's probably the biggest art world story in that period that of leonardo davinci's salvator mundi it sold at christie's in new york in november two thousand seventeen for four hundred million dollars or four hundred and fifty million with fees smashing the world record for artwork sold at auction ever since it's been the subject of widespread conjecture and intrigue we'll begin by taking you back to the morning after the night before and my chat with judd tully who is in the christie saleroom in manhattan for the newspaper on wednesday the fifteenth of november twenty seventeen and witnessed this my mentors event. It was a packed room. <hes> everyone was looking for these special red paddles that christie's dreamed up sometimes times they use it in jewelry sales to kind of that potential bidders who wanted to bid on the leonardo because it was <hes> you know suggested that the estimate was something like in the region of one hundred million and actually during the early elite part of the nineteen minute long marathon <hes> battles for the painting u._c. Pill cannon the auction near or when the price went to ninety million. He said he told the sales room. I can sell it at ninety and do you know which seemed kind of wow there's no interest and then that seemed to just trigger this bidding war between <hes> <hes> three <hes> non ass- telephone bidders and i believe there was one person in the room i couldn't see them but as the numbers ticked up and they started <hes> the bidding at seventy million and they moved quite along easily at five million and then i think it was luik gouzer who who's christie's chairman of postwar contemporary whatever and sort of if you want to call it the mastermind behind the this whole marketing campaign paying for the painting for the leonardo he jumped. I think it was ten million dollars and then you just saw this sort of shootout between incredibly incredibly wealthy people and the numbers kept going up and as they went and surpassed the picasso price for his <hes> painting that made i think one hundred seventy nine million you could start hearing gasps in the room and <hes> <hes> and it just kept going and i mean it was just kind of flabbergasting flabbergasting that there didn't seem to be any any end of it and you know it at certain points the bidding slow down and then it you know it was only only two million dollar hour increments and then all of a sudden alex rotter who's <hes> co-chairman i think the post war and formely family <hes> head of sotheby's contemporary art and he moved over to christie's <hes> about a year ago <hes> suddenly he raises the <hes> the bidding by thirty million dollars just from three seventy when it was at three seventy to four hundred and that did it and what happens when the gap will when the gavel finally swept down was there was applause. Ooh was there a kind of stunned. Silence was <hes> you know whistles clapping hooting. <hes> you know it was like a party. It's very theatrical. The whole whole thing was like performance art piece and i think just everyone was just dumbfounded. Now one of the leonardo scholars whose authenticated this woman the is martin kemp professor emeritus of the history of our at trinity college in oxford. He's one of the world's leading experts in leonardo's work. We spoke to him. In march twenty eighteen when he published his book living with leonardo and among jails our london correspondent martin bailey asked him about the salvator mundi and his reaction to that stratospheric sale i was interested in the book that <hes> you reproduce the very poor early black and white photograph of the painting before it was restored in the early twentieth century and you actually described it a a as an image of a drug crazed hippie so that point <hes> many some years ago you obviously reject it <hes>. What is your present position do except that it's entirely from leonardo's hand. Most of what we see speaks of fled. The difficulty is that some of the areas still with painter surviving being clash of braided so it's very difficult to say well that is absolutely salute elaine nardo but those areas. I confined to the drapery particularly insulates work. It's very complex work. Not work what you may will get assistance silence to do you know how do we do package off and say that's how you do it goes on over there under there and how the threads work and somebody could go on and do it but it i would say a what i can see the huge majority of it turned into a percentage huge majority of it is utterly consistent assist with leonardo consistent in style new so the way he manipulates the subject matter so it's not just a question of a connoisseur earlier judge ruled through by is i prefer to call it coming in and saying this is leading although i can tell that there's a lot of very subtle manipulation of that subject for a particular chiklis kind of content and what about the price four hundred fifty million dollars did this price surprise you and is the painting worth it on the night of the sale of is obviously night ending in england and i knew that there was a guarantee on the painting of one hundred million dollars <music>. Somebody had backs that price a nothing. That's how they priced out of. The ruble off laughs basically said well. We've got a guaranteed price for this is he wasn't intending to sell us initially and i felt since the revival of left paintings have been setting for much less than that he'd taboo v._a. For them the king of the freeport's i thought this is going to struggle to get much above hundred hundred million. I thought it probably gets hundred and ten million so i went to bed. I'm just not can do better things. You should have stayed well at two o'clock in the morning. My phone started drinking and i opened my emails and going bing bing bing and all hell broke loose and then spent judd p._a. Kate round and we didn't spend the next twenty four hours doing the rounds of the new studios and it was completely crazy breakfast and lunch disappeared some other and it was absolutely astonishing what it shows is that leonardo in its from reason i wrote the book <hes> is a different league differently to michelangelo from any of the big figures from shakespeare that he likes them is subject to enormous miss terrific public interest but the degree to a witch leonardo evoke status. I think completely extraordinary so. I don't think this is a world record price for a painting in the normal marketed. It's a world record price for eight learn ardo which is a completely separate thing from from anything else. It's just stunning. Aw living with leonardo is published by thames and hudson and price thirty four dollars ninety five in the u._s. On one thousand nine pounds ninety nine in april two thousand nineteen critic and broadcaster ben lewis came into the studio to discuss his latest book. The last leonardo the previous week the book could make the front page of the times newspaper in london because it reveals that when five international leonardo scholars was shown the painting in march two two thousand eight at the national gallery there were doubts about its attribution to leonardo to quite louis the final score from the national gallery meeting seems to have been to yes is one no and to know comments yet when the painting appeared in the national two thousand eleven leonardo blockbuster it was unequivocally attributed to leonardo and described as an autograph work. This was among the many conundrums mystery surrounding the salvator mundi that we discussed another was the whereabouts of the painting since then. It's been reported that it's on a yacht owned by muhammad mitt bin salman the saudi crown prince and still is uncertain whether the painting will appear in this autumn's blockbuster leonardo show at the louvre in paris marking the five hundred aniversary of leonardo's is death. The plot continues to thicken anyway. Here's the interview with ben lewis from april this year. Tell me about this meeting meeting at the national gallery and about what that tells us about the attribution of this painting to leonardo only a month or two into research into the story of the painting and its its attribution i dotted focusing pretty quickly on this national gallery meeting and then i noticed that everyone else who is telling the story and the salvator mundi studying cell too windy all art historians so it's all about you know the cause of the hair and the embroidery and auto auto on the face and the blessing hand and the chateau here and there and they weren't journalists but if you're a journalist in which you know i am partly. It's an interdisciplinary book but let's face it. I am partly journalists to be good at that. You know you look at events dates events documents what people say when and here was this meeting behind in closed doors. Okay fine you sometimes. You've got to have a meeting behind closed doors. You want everybody to know what you said when we entered at it but meeting behind closed doors there. It was no minutes from it. You know nothing came out of it. Was the press release. That came out of it was real was printed three years later you know the meeting was in two thousand and eight. The press release was published printed in two thousand eleven. That's weird so you know. Basically something went on there. That was the pivot in a way if the whole story because the attribution of the salvator mundi was really the national gallery's business it was putting it in the leonardo auto show this big fantastic show whatever luke's ice and put on putting it in and said this is a leonardo and then you could be older leonardo and we know what happened after after that so zoomed into the meeting i found out he was there. You know a five art historians. One of them was actually there and either day later but this was the cabal all the high a council as i call it in my book i contacted them all and it was actually incredibly difficult to get answers out or some of them like like david brown eventually. He wrote me a great emails saying i believe this is a leonardo the moment i saw it. I knew this was a leonardo. I offended. I'm one of the people authenticated it very grateful for you. For hearing your opinion david alan brown to me like eight months to get her out of him and i had to write a letter letter to the press of the trump teams email to the press office saying i was going to complain that by not responding to me. They were breaching american museum guidelines. Basically he's got quite a serious because he's at the national gallery of art in motion yeah. He's a big fish and i i you know basically accusing of being unethical in order to get an answer so that was quite extreme. Pietro mirani was <hes>. I don't wanna talk about this on the phone. I don't wanna talk about this in email but it but if you if you come if i come to london talk to you so i you know months later went to milan and he saw me and he was gay gave me his answer. I did not authenticated as leonardo auto nobody asked me to this is interesting. He wasn't asked well. You know nobody there was actually asked. Do you think this is a leonardo. Nobody was awesome. Take part in either unofficial authentication procedure of some kind or to participate in an informal consensus. All that happened was an informal almo discussion around the painting right in the conservation studio inside another little leonardo painting alongside the virgin of the rocks which the national gallery also thinks nardo most other people think is mostly done by assistant so spot the spot the agenda anyway so there you know they talk oaken formerly and of course they're very you didn't put an art historian on the spot he's going to be he or she is going to be really polite. Because why antagonize you know your host eight or a museum that one day you might want to borrow work of art from you know i mean professional networks at everything in our history and in the museum world save basically. They all nodded their head. Oh yes very interesting. Yes very leonardo. Fantastic does a wonderful thank you for inviting us and they went away and then yeah luke's aisin curated the exhibition yeah reported back to nicholas penny the the people the meeting had said it was a leonardo brackets although they thought some parts thoughts of it might have been painted by his assistance but the interesting thing is that when he writes up the catalog entry on the work so it's in this exhibition this leonardo exhibition in the catalog entry in the catalog he makes it quite forceful case for it. Being an autograph were bali another. We're loose is in is entitled to his opinion. This is an autograph work by galleon ardo and that is his opinion and he's a very distinguished. He's a very distinguished curator and also you know really nice guy to talk to and he passionately believes is is leonardo released into the last time i spoke to him but the fact is that you know other people at that meeting were not convinced and he did not faithfully reflect the views views so you've got martin kemp and david allen brown on the one correct and they are the two yeses. We think there was a big. Yes gases great yeses. Piatra mirani is also a really big leonardo hitter. He's the italian leonardo i scholar he. He's the big guy and he's like. I'm not saying one way or the other and then you have maria tereza furio who i also met the you know fan yeah specialist in the leonard and leonardo's assistance people's followers staff and she just said you know i never gave an opinion and then three years later later. I'll i'm reading in the newspapers that i'm one of the four people said this was a leonardo. I mean and she raped me an email. It's in black and white you. It was not very happy and what did she say in that email. This is essentially i. I never gave this authentication yeah. That's exactly what she said. Dear i've been i've never issued official opinions on the salvator mundi and in any case. I've never been asked to do so always discussed informally with colleagues and i do not you've never what use was made of my opinion. Certainly it happened after the london exhibition. If the salvator mundi was exhibited as an autograph work the national the gallery it was no tournaments decision by my colleagues in london. I've never been an official opinion so i had i asked her. You know why you didn't you if you're if you misused if your views were misrepresented in this way. Why didn't you bring it up. That was what i said yeah she she because i was really pursuing her. I wanted wanted to make really sure this so she said i had no reason to raise the problem with my colleagues. In london i certainly discussed it with professor marnie but we've known each other for thirty years and our discussions discussions always have a friendly and informal character right so this is really interesting thing about an. I think you bring out really well. In the book about ashley really within the sort of scholarship community around leonardo there are lots of people with particular bugbears particular passions particularly little projects wchs and you sort of bring this up nicely in the book the leninist there's no love lost between the leninist when i went through the kenneth clarke archive at the tate i found this letter from kenneth clarke a to call a pretty who is the big italian leonardo scholar ah he dominated leonardo scholarship in italy in the second half of the twentieth century and he died in two thousand seven and said the salvator mundi was not by leonardo but he hadn't actually seen it but anyway i just got a letter from a to him from kenneth clarke and key and it quote at the front of the book and it's basically the politics the politics leonardo scholarship like any other politics except so far no blood has been spilt the field of scholarship rulership. Obviously it's so it's such high state especially within because there were so few paintings and again you go into this in quite a lot of detail in the book. Don't you want you. You want to trace the history of the artist and the number of paintings he's made. I mean the books yawn basically or if you like it three yards in one it's not just sort of investigation nor you know a journalistic mystic account of some dodgy attribution. It's not really like that is basically the the spine of the of the book is kind of heist story. It's a thriller. It's like how did these guys by picture for one thousand one hundred seventy five bucks and within twelve years turned into four hundred fifty million bucks that is amazing mazing and i totally salute i i really liked him. I really admire them and the fact they managed to persuade the saudis of all people to part with half off billion dollars on this leonardo brilliant hats off to them nice one. I wish we could do that every week. So that's like the spine of the story. How do you how do you do that. It's amazing. I mean no one's have made so much money so quickly before and that but then underneath that there's the history history of the painting you know and it starts as a you know starts with a walnut tree because it's painted on walnut word and the painting would panelists carton <music> coated and and then it follows the painting the p._o._v. point of view of the painting through these different you know palaces and penthouses and and also dusty storerooms dull american suburbs it traces his five hundred year history. It has made some mazing ups and downs. I swear no painting in the history. History of the world has ever had such extreme experiences and that's why i love telling the story it's amazing how much larger than life and then underneath that right there's a third sort of stranding away a third book which is a sort of bog revere leonardo very simple with a few different the chapters activated to a few different themes that takes us slightly less reverential attitude leonardo then you know the books by water isaacs nor martin kim i call him as genius i call him a duda and adored ler can explain what you mean by that well the notebooks totally totally chaotic and he had huge problems finishing paintings you gave up the of course the story begins games as you say in this most unlikely scenario where a very diligent scholar and dealer kind rush small time dealer really this looks indians always dealer and one of them's medium-size erudite and the other guy he just had a load of bad luck all his life alex parish. You know he's the guy i saw it on the internet and stuff and great good for him you know yeah so alex parish and and robert simon are they sort of these sort of unlikely brothers arm yeah brilliant yeah they've put in totally unlikely couple if you like or partnership ship and that's one of the joys of the books almost has his fictional equality you know robert. Simon is very quiet very careful about everything. He says you know <hes> really ways everything up and says very little indiscreet. You know an alex parish just blurts it all out and he actually at one point in his life became a born again christian dan you know he'd been down on his luck so many times as he says i've been down to one suitcase more than once in my life and he's he's used to being very low down on on the food chain whereas robert simon is used to being you know policy did <hes> you know uptown society and and i love the way they sort of go together and the reason that together because ultimately they pretty decent guys and they know they can trust each other right and but they both separately spotted that there was this interesting in this auction in new orleans yeah i think alex for it i on the internet but you know robert was getting the robot was getting the hardcopy catalogs in the mail and he must have seen it very shortly afterwards because when alex rang up as i understand it roberts yeah i've seen that looks interesting here right and so they bought at auction for how much one thousand one hundred and seventy five dollars what happens from there well they bought it and they they never actually went to new orleans. They sent they got a courier to pick it up. Whatever is great. They bought it over the internet and on the telephone they go to korea to pick it up. Took it to new york to new york. Alex unpacked it and it's like oh. This lows really interesting and then you know robert. Simon took a look at it and i was like yeah and then robert you know how handsome connections a to a very distinguished restore a couple marriott. Mary owned iron modest dini husband and wife both restores sort of work together <hes> some of the time and he brought it round to them and showed it showed it to them and you know mary was just a year away from death sadly and he he looks statements like <hes> leonardo is painted by somebody really good at generation after his death you know that's interesting in it says quite revealing feeling that he would say that and then robber asked diane to restore it and she said yeah i'll do it and did she believe it was a leonardo most at a certain point in the restoration she came to believe it was a leonardo yes by that point to her husband had died and i think she was in in a very emotional state. You know i mean she was really upset about his death and she drives. She actually writes about it in her. In a chapter in his memoir washy writes the last chapter about restoring salvator mundi and she says you know she was taking various kinds of medication to calm down and you know she was carrying on a conversation with mario in her head so i think one could argue that the picture took on a somewhat larger than life role in her in a in a world old and anyway she was restoring it and she came to a point. I think she was doing the mouth. I can't remember it was the mouth and she thought the mouth so delicately painted only leonardo could paint like that but actually restores aren't really meant to make attributions and and it's a very difficult area whether you know one of leonardo's followers could actually paint mouth dislike leonardo. I mean they certainly knew how how is interesting but i suppose one of the most interesting her role is really pivotal in this process isn't it because she took on the painting when it was was in really pretty shabby condition. Can you give us some of the details about what it looked like. When it came into her possession into her studio oh god it was a total wreck back and that was that wreck was the word that the fantastic bergeford historian ellis waterhouse used when he saw the painting this other bees auctioning nine hundred fifty eight which was a painting was sold to a new orleans furniture company executive forty-five quit and he saw the picture just like wreck wreck. It was a cook collection election picture. There's a factor that isn't in my discovered today or yesterday or last week. I keep following stuff off. It was bored right at the cook collection ceo in one thousand nine hundred fifty eight forty five pounds right. That's nothing and there were lots of other more expensive pictures from the collection. It sold for a lot more now. One one of them was a disaster in jerome which was actually hanging below the salvator mundi one hundred seven in the cook collection catalog in the salvator mundi one one hundred sixty eight underneath right how many guys forty-five quit at ben how much she is already. Disisto goes for one thousand seven seven hundred and fifty pounds so an astronomically larger amount of the settlement. I went to see it. Last week is in the southampton art gallery anyway. You were asked me something completely different. The the state of the picture was it was a total wreck it had only about twenty percent of the picture was leonardo's final layers on it right twenty percent of the picture was sort of scratched away to the word or somebody else's over paint and then sixty percent was leonardo's under layers plus. Somebody else's over paint here and there fact it obviously been restored many many times in its history. I mean he's been restored once in the late twentieth century but it also being restored at least once in the nineteenth century if not twice you you know and it's one of these sort of hybrid works of art you know the artist. The original arts leonardi might have been involved. The the studio studio worked on it his assistance not really sure which and then restore after restore tone it to repair whatever damage you know somebody had done to it along the way i mean just i mean it's hot history rich them one things you know and there are often many more authors than one things in a work of art but this one in terms terms of in terms of the amount of damage the salvator mundi had right and in terms of where that damage was like most on the face and this is a portrait you know i i think we can safely say no newly discovered painting by a major artist has ever had so much damage on it when it was discovered one of the big factors in that is the fact that it's painted on walnut with a not a really crucial part of the panel. This is one of the sort of inexplicable reasons as you know this. This doesn't tally with the great technician leonardo who is very careful about true surfaces he painted on that kind of rule one of the first things frank zoellner who's in the catalog raising a leonardo paintings and drawings to one of the things and said to me and his sort of german was no. I don't think leonardo of what would use a piece of like that. I mean he knew about what he's a very interested in technique and technology no very difficult to imagine you know i mean the wood was already a problem and then not only that normally it has not in a panel god knows her plenty of paintings out there from the race with not in the panel the not is filled in with vegetable fibres to sort of help it contract expand you know in different heat different dry dry or humid conditions to make it a bit safer. You know in this not had not been filled in and i find that incredibly mysterious i mean it's almost inexplicable really what are what are the characteristics so the paintings that convinced you that leonardo may have had a hand in it. Oh there's a few of those the lesson hand extremely subtle you know it's very softly it and it's kind of really cool little shade little shadows along the along the fingers and the thing in house house really kind of subtly done and then if you look at the all banned some really nice highlights on the fingertips that light reflected light that's luster leonardo wrote about whether you can sometimes see that on other copies of the ceremony and then there are these fantastic of ringlets on the on the the right side of his head. I think that's right. When you're looking at it. You know it's like a double helix of ringlets and that's like such a specific structure and if you look at all the paintings by leonardo's as follows the hair is quite schematic and they don't have an amazing shape in like that so when you look at that shape it's quite light is difficult not to think leonardo didn't and have a big hand to play in it but you just don't know if there's some you know if he donna drawing like that once upon a time which has now she's now lost which an assistant assistant used what about the optics because again you know we know that leonardo was this great scientists but you think that there are some inconsistencies because it wouldn't a great scientist anticipative have captured the optics in the ore princeton's and also the distance of the fieger from the hand and all this kinda yeah i mean the optics in the orbit bizarre absolutely bizarre as another german is touring based in switzerland dietrich seabird who looked at the infrared and thought he could see that actually in the under drawing the artist did bend the light bend. The drapery folds behind the all. He's not really sure about it but it's just bizarre. There's no who there's no strong indication whatsoever that the light alters behind the organ. I didn't think very difficult to conceive leonardo painting something like that just so eroneous -ly i mean you can imagine toning it down or something but not totally like that and if you look at the the you know the glass the the the the the wine in the glasses in the last supper in the royal academy you can see a little bit of refraction. You know the robes and stuff behind. You know it's not major major. There's a little bit guy on the other thing is the other strange thing right the opposite the optics his face mark martin kemp suggested that the reason the phases so sort of it the'real and blood and the hand is so crisp is because the leonardo was sort of using depth of field and you know he'd written about aerial perspective and he said that if things were further they're away leonardo advised in his note in the notes for his treat is on paintings and if things father away they should look less distinct you know if that's the case why leonardo's faith so ethereal but the hair which is in the same plane. Why is that so sharp. There were all sorts so inconsistencies in other words just fantastic puzzle. I mean the whole paintings fantastic puzzle you know the sense in the book of the is really lucky sort rollicking tail apartment at the and of course this this is consistent with a lot of your work before you came to even think about leonardo in terms of studying the art world and what you see is the deep corruptions and and problems with the art world. Can you tell us more about that. I have in the past made a very critical about contemporary art market and i tried to take a step back really with this book and just in a there's lots of opinions by me at the end of the book but until then there's a major effort to be just to lay out the facts and the pluses and the minuses and turning cars the reader to reach an opinion per. You know you're asking me for my opinion and here we have a newly discovered painting by the greatest artists who ever lived and it dan show it's face. You know it's invisible. Oh it disappeared. It's so shameful you know that it can't be seen. I mean that's really damning of if you like the art ecosystem the system i mean something is seriously wrong and it's not in a way. It's not really for me to say what that is. I mean this is so bad that it's like over to you guys over not martyn campbell over to eulex aisin over to uniquely penny over to you pietri mirani sort this out. What what what are your theories about on the one hand. Where is it and also why. Why do we not know where it is. We're we're pretty sure it's in switzerland because if you want to move it right. It's very very delicate. It's in five different pieces of delicate illegally together. You paid four hundred fifty million dollars for it. You know you're not going to put it in a plastic cpac. You have to bring out the restore time odyssey numidian new york and make sure how to do it. No no nobody entrusted with moving. That picture is going to move it like that. It just a move it so in the autumn a swiss restore actually did ring up diana and said i think he meant sending the picture to france. How do we move. It says oh now we know it's in switzerland so it's it's in some lack of in switzerland is almost certain that it was bought a you know by the day facto two ruler of saudi arabia crown prince mohammad bin salman so he's almost certainly got it. Why isn't he showing it possibly possibly because he wants to save it up for his own museum but i think that there's a kind of embarrassment not not because because it's a picture of christ i mean i think that's kinda in there. I think there are problems with the attribution of his painting. There are problems with the provenance of this painting and there's problems with the rest raises painting all of which of enumerated in my book and i think they're worried he's one of the purposes of this book and drew attention to it. The front page story on the times is one of your hopes that might flush the painting out yes. I think we have to flush out themselves. Who monday i would do anything to see <hes>. If i can just take this opportunity to tell the world i was sacrificed any body part of which i have to if i can see the salvator mundi yeah yeah i think we all need to see it really and we need you know in a way presenting the bringing bringing the painting out of its hiding place it's the same as as my book is bringing all the facts they're hiding place and putting in the public domain and when i brought a couple of stories of the art newspaper while i wrote the book of my publishers like oh. Can you save them up for the book and i'm like i just didn't believe in that i think is our is there to be shed. If you have information you put it out in the public domain and let's talk about it or argue about it and if we do that i think we can come to a much deeper and more honest appreciation of whatever it is a really interesting. Painting is your sense and that we might see it at the louvre in the big leonardo show later in the i'm gonna say very very unlikely because the louvre i'm sure sure want to borrow it equally sure they do want to put a label next to it. Says leonardo da vinci right that is a problem and the guy lending it. You know hey this how the saudis. I'm sure they wanna see it in the louvre in paris you know but i'm sure they want to see it. In the louvre in paris his workshop of leonardo is that because the curator aleve he's one of the people that would say it's possible that it's leonardo but i can't be sure well the curator louvre by the last reckoning did not have an opinion either either way and the the sort of you know. A highly placed sources told me that the louvre has a collective group of curator's. Do not think this is an autograph leonardo de. Hey it's going to run the loan for some time. Venue bookies really fascinating. Thanks so much commune telling us about it. Thanks for letting me off. The last leonardo but ben lewis is published by william collins at twenty pounds in the u._k. And by ballantine books in the u._s. and canada price twenty eight dollars. That's this episode. Don't forget you can follow all the latest developments in the world at the art newspaper dot com or an app for i._o._s. S. which can find at the app store on the website. You'll find a range of subscriptions so that you can read our content seamlessly across multiple platforms and you can subscribe for free to our daily newsletter letter for all the latest stories goto the newspaper dot com and click on the link at the top right of the page do subscribe to this podcast wherever you normally listen to them and please he's leaving rating or review on apple podcasts and follow us on twitter at tan audio will russo on instagram and facebook of course the art newspaper podcast is produced by judy and a house. Ah amy dawson and david clack and david does the editing. We'll be back with another top of the puts next week by finance the newspaper association with bonhams auctioneers since seventeen ninety three to find out more visit <music>.

leonardo davinci salvator mundi london leonardo salvator mundi robert simon new york paris ben lewis Pietro mirani judd tully switzerland christie trinity college new orleans luke christie elaine nardo art newspaper martin kemp professor emeritus
Decoding Da Vinci

1A

29:23 min | 1 year ago

Decoding Da Vinci

"Support for NPR and the following message come from Dulles International Airport with the highest on time takeoff percentage of any airport on the east coast. I a d means I'm already departing more at fly, Dallas dot com slash fast. Hey there. It's Todd's willik infra Joshua Johnson. A message on our podcast this week. We messed up we made a change to our web servers that we didn't expect to have any effect on our podcast. And clearly we were wrong and it forced a bunch of episodes into NPR podcast feeds resulting endowed loads that you didn't ask for it. Also made it hard or impossible for you to find in. Listen to your favorite NPR podcast. We are truly sorry for this. We fixed the root cause of the problem shortly after we discovered it, but it's taking awhile for that fix to make it into all of the podcast apps. If you unsubscribe from this show or any other NPR show, please take a minute and resubscribe if you're still having problems, go to our website, NPR dot org slash help. We are taking steps to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again, thanks for listening and now onto the show. This is one A. I'm todd. We'll look in Washington sitting in for Joshua Johnson. It's possible that no single human has had more influence over our culture, and how it developed then Leonardo da Vinci he is perhaps the most famous polymath of our times. There are few fields his ideas in observations haven't touched, we know invest for artwork. Like the Mona Lisa and the last supper and for his drawing of the trivia man, which revolutionized the study of anatomy, but we're about to learn much more about Leonardo's impact. And it's fitting that we do it today because today is the five hundred anniversary of the renaissance renaissance man's death. Joining me to discuss Leonardo davinci's life and legacy is teacher and biographer Walter Isaacson. He's a professor of history at the two lane university and the subjects of his acclaimed biographies include Albert Einstein Benjamin Franklin Steve Jobs, and of course, Leonardo da Vinci, Walter Isaacson, welcome to one A. Thank you. Thanks for having me wonderful to have you Lee. In order to Vinci. Of course died in fifteen nineteen five hundred years ago today in twenty nineteen countries. All over the world are organizing celebrations to commemorate his life. Why do you think this five hundredth anniversary is so significant to so many people in so many places I think this day and age we've learned the value of combining many disciplines it used to be in the twentieth century. There was a separation of art and science. But when you look at the biotech revolution. When you look at the technology revolution and the digital revolution. You see people bringing together the arts and the sciences music and math. And that is exactly what Leonardo dead. I saw that. Bill Gates, did a wonderful video. That's being tweeted around today because his whole idea of what the digital revolution is about comes down to understanding how we connect arts and sciences the way Leonardo did. Well, we don't have time to talk about all of the an artist's influence in all of his areas of studies because that's why your book is so thick. I think six hundred pages. But can can you give me a sense of the breadth and the depth of this man's work? Just an idea of the size of the influence. He's had on us. Well, yeah. I mean, I'll pick one example, which is you know, he was self taught as a kid because he was illegitimate. He was gay. He was left handed. He was sort of misfit. So he didn't get sent to the traditional schools until he loves looking at how water flows past rocks and throughout his notebooks. You see that flow. But you see him do it with corals of air, and then coils of hair like with the Mona Lisa and even trying to do a little bit of the math Feb Naci equations, and then he dissects the human heart, and he realizes that the heart valve opens and shots not because of the pressure of the blood going up and down. But because of the way the blood swirls. Centrifugal force brings a valve at that ability to see patterns, I could give you dozens of such examples, but that ability to see patterns across nature is actually what makes the Mona Lisa smile. Her smile is an example of that. 'cause it's a combination of optics anatomy and pure beauty of art. And as you turn the pages of his notebooks or reproductions of his notebooks to look at his life's work in his own hand. It must be amazing for you as a researcher. And I know you spent so much time with his work as math Matic work is artwork. His studies his drawings to get a sense of of how he viewed the world through his own is, you know, one of the really glorious things about Leonardo da Vinci and base my book on it. And so many pictures of it in the book is that he left us more than seven thousand two hundred pages of notebooks daily doodles to do less like, you know. Questions. He wanted to answer. Like, why is the sky blue of what is the tongue of a woodpecker looked like as well as anatomy drawings and sketches for the last supper all crammed together on these notebook pages and one of the small lessons. I took from Leonardo is take notes on paper papers are wonderful technology five hundred years later, we can still use it. It's still flipped through it. Unlike our tweets and Facebook posts and emails, which hopefully will be gone five hundred years now, some of us have deleted some of them already Walter Isaacson. Who was this man Leonardo Davinci? What was he like in life? He was a very congenial fun friendly guy had a lot of people around him. He was very comfortable with himself. He was gay in Florence in the fourteen seventy and fourteen eighties. When there was a new spirit of tolerance. So he dressed, and you know, wonderful. Car. He had a young companion. They threw Dana's all the time. We can look at his notebooks. And even see what they bought at the because we are not a writes down what they bought at the marketplace. But he was also obsessively observant and curious he'd look at a bird taking off and figure out to the wings flap up or do they flap down faster, and then he would use that to try to do props in the pageants and plays. He was doing. So that you'd see little birds that would fly and then eventually he tries to build flying machines all of that is reflected in his art. So I think if you had to give a bunch of adjectives, it would be obsessively curious playfully observant and very friendly. He's just the most likeable guy. I love hearing this because one of the images of Leonardo one of the only ones we're used to seeing a sort of typical time kind of scowl on his face or or he's a very old, man. And you see that image. And you you don't get the true side of him that you describe which is lots and lots of friends lots of parties gay in gregarious, having a great time in also a brilliant brilliant observer of the world, you know, if you wanna know what he really looks like I think and I try to prove this in my book, votre vian, man. Wonderful guy doing jumping Jackson the circle in the square that I of drawing that's the beautiful curls of. Leonardo's have that we know. That's the square jaw. That's the intense there. You know, that's the very physical strong athletic body that he had. And I am sure that that jawing, and so are many other scholars is Leonardo saying here. I am standing in the world standing in our cosmos, saying how do I fit in? It's a perfect work of anatomy with perfect, you know, measurements of all parts of the human body. But it's also a great. Piece of art. And most importantly, it's a spiritual statement of here. We are fitting into this cosmos did Leonardo catch controversy in his time. And if so how did he handle it? There was some controversy, and he leaves Florence for awhile to move to Milan, partly because the main controversy about Leonardo was he was such a perfectionist that he didn't finish a lot of his painting. So as a twenty something painter in Florence. We have a beautiful half painting of Saint Jerome in the wilderness. We have a wonderful adoration of the mad Gye, that's just been restored. But he never finished it. And I think after a while the Medici family got sick of this perfectionist young genius. And the ends up going to Milan and writing a wonderful job application letter to the Duke of Milan, that's eleven paragraphs long. The first ten paragraphs are all about his engineering, skills and ability. To devote waters and built weapons build weapons and build great buildings. It's only in the eleventh paragraph that he says I can also paint as well as any person. And of course, the Duke of Milan says fine do the last supper on the rectory of my favorite church. Walter Isaacson, Janet us this E mail with a question is there evidence that Leonardo could have been dyslexic is there? I don't like trying to diagnose people from five hundred years ago. There's not much evidence that he's dyslexic because he loved to read he read very well you have to remember that the year. He was born Gutenberg opens first printing shop inside selling books, and so this is a godsend for Leonardo because he had not gone to university. He was a clearly had attention deficit issues. I'm not sure I wanna diagnosis is exactly ADHD. But he jumped around was hyper folk. Focused. But then also once he had hyperfocused he'd sometimes get distracted and move on to other things. And it sounds like Leonardo was the type of person who you would have really liked to have been around. Sometimes I asked biographers like that that question do you like this person? Would you have liked to spend time with them? Absolutely. I I've never quite understood being a biographer who writes about somebody. You don't want to spend time with because you're living with the dude. And the two people that are most that way Benjamin Franklin and Leonardo Davinci their bow. And the two two of my subjects, and they both are interested in everything from science to governance to poetry to music, and they're both very gregarious. They both throw really good dinner parties as we can tell from there memos and journal there are celebrations all over the world on this five hundredth anniversary of the death of Leonardo Davinci next. We're going to get into some of the reasons. Leonardo's life and work are still. Influencing us today. I'm speaking with Walter Isaacson, the biographer of Leonardo da Vinci, and so many other influential people I'm Todd's, well, it it's one stay with us. Support for NPR and the following message come from VS p individual vision plans offering coverage for a low monthly cost. If you don't have vision coverage through an employer, you'll get access to the nation's largest network of independent doctors and hundreds of name-brand frames. Plus you can save more than two hundred dollars a year. VS people leaves you deserve to see better for life for less. Discover for yourself at need VS p coverage dot com. Wait can be Forni topic. But life kid is here to give you the facts the scale measures the gravitational pull of the earth at a given moment in time the scale doesn't measure help happiness success effort or self worth here at life kit. We're rethinking wait. Find it wherever you're listening or an NPR dot org slash life kit. It's one eight. I'm Todd's willik. I'm speaking with Walter Isaacson, professor and biographer and biographer of Leonardo Davinci on this five hundredth anniversary of Leonardo's death. Walter Isaacson, you mentioned Bill Gates just one of the influential people today who claims direct influence from Leonardo and Bill Gates has been sending around a video of a manuscript a codex that he bought. Leonardo's original notes. I think I wanna say thirty million dollars. Listen, this codex is the only one that's not in the European museum. Leonardo Davinci wrote all observations in these notebooks than his ability to diagrams things. And just think things through was the best five hundred years later. We have the actual notebooks. He does MIR writing riding backwards because he was left handed. I am. M if you write the normal way, then you always smudging the ink. And so if you do it backwards, then you completely avoid that problem. So here you're just seeing the page exactly as it looked to Vinci. Walter Isaacson once we get past the jaw-dropping thirty million dollar price tag. Bill Gates was able to pay for that codex. You really hear one person who values elliptical open minded thinking talk about the influence that another person who values that kind of thinking hat on him. Those notebooks are so wonderful and the notebooks called the codex LeicesteR that Bill Gates has he's been good enough to put on display there actually in Florence now on display because they show Leonardo connecting his science to all of his other curiosities. And so the wonderful drawings as experiments he's trying to figure out how to mountain streams form is it. Because of precipitation, or is it because of springs that come up from the earth, all of these wonderful curiosities. And as you look at it. I've looked at it. You know with Bill Gates and looked at it in museums. You just say, oh my goodness. You can you can just sense the hand of the master, in fact, Retrouve, Ian, man was something like that on a notebook page and our member when I went to go see it in Venice, there's a poor tractor whole, you know, right? Where you see Leonardo did the compass to do the circle. So it's just it's just fascinating. Steve jobs. Also counted Leonardo as as one of his heroes. He was going to name a product after Leonardo because Steve Jobs whenever he announced one of his great products. Like the MacIntosh Vanu Macintoshes in the late nineteen ninety s or the ipod iphone, ipad, the last slide. He showed those. Great sort of unveiling announcements, he did was the intersection of the liberal arts and the technology to streets, and he said that will we add apple stand. And he said to me over and over again that Leonardo da Vinci was inspiration for standing at that intersection of the arts, and engineering. Well, you also note in your book that the difficulty of this term that we're so tempted to use with Leonardo Davinci, well, he's just a genius. He must have been a genius. And you say it's problematic in part because he was so so grounded in so relatable, despite being so incredible at all these different disciplines that can you talk a little bit about Leonardo's relationship to that reductive idea being genius. Well, first of all, let's say he was really a genius. But I think that idea minimizes him because it makes it seem like he was touched by lightning by the gods, creators, whatever and had some superhuman powers and in some ways. Of people like that like Einstein or Newton. They there's no way you, and I or any of our listeners are ever going to reproduce the thought processes of Einstein or Newton because they did have some really huge amazing. You know, gifted genius. I think for Leonardo though we could all try to be more like because he wasn't particularly good at math. But he learned to love it. He was not a very well educated. But he learned to teach himself and what he had was curiosity. What he had was a passionate ability to be observant. And I think those are things that we can train ourselves. So when I say that we shouldn't minimize them by saying he was a genius. Would mean is we shouldn't say, oh, we'll never understand it it some mystery. No, we can understand exactly how Leonardo created everything. He did because we can watch his mind at work. And it wasn't some weird superhuman power. It was just the willful and playful curiosity of a wonderful human being. And maybe if even I'm not a genius. And I'm not I can still look at his example of being observant and being patient and seeing the connections between things and maybe open up my own views of the world, you can do it. And I try to do it. You know, the streetcar coming down here or whatever in Orleans, and I watch how the light hits a shiny leaf and the little bit of luster. And I move my head the way Leonardo did, you know when he's writing about it to see how the lesser changes. These are just tiny things we can do every minute of the day lunch. We put our iphones down and say, I'm going to be observant. And most importantly, we can encourage that in kids whether you're talking about K through twelve education or your own kids. You have to avoid saying stop asking so many stupid. Questions you want to encourage that natural curiosity that fascination with the world that we all have during our wonder years as children and gets knocked out of us. After awhile near Leonardo da Vinci, never let those wonder years get knocked out of him. Well, somebody with so much influence as Leonardo da Vinci has inevitably inspired some myth making. And there are lots of people in our society today whose first moment knowing about Leonardo da Vinci may have been Dan Brown's massively popular book, the Davinci code. It contains a popular conspiracy theory Walter nine, I know, you know, this about that last supper painting, and it also appears in the in the film version of dementia code, listen, wait peas, you'll saying the holy grail is a person a woman and terms on. She makes right. That will. What about that figure on the right hand of our Lord seated in the place of all? Flowing rim. Ha Phil did seven hands. Into the bosom. Dude. It's called sculptor. Ma the mind sees what it uses to see we see. Yeah. That's mad backed Walter Isaacson. Now, it was a fun movie. And boy, oh boy to Dan Brown sell a lot of books, but true or false is is Mary Magdalene depicted at all in the last supper del. It's false. But let me do say a love Dan Brown's book or find them wonderful read. I enjoyed the Davinci code, but we have so much evidence of exactly who the model was in that. And of course, it's John who in the Davinci code. I think Dan Brown said that has the professor say that Leonardo didn't do many androgynous figures. No Leonardo always painted. His figures to be somewhat androgynous sort of sexually ambiguous. But that's John in the last supper, even though it's a wonderful plot device and the Davinci code. How religious was Leonardo devotional painting was was hot in the renaissance. That's how you got funded, and it's what people painted about was Leonardo religious. And how did he view the intersection of of faith in science? Leonardo was not conventionally devotional religious. We don't have much evidence until his deathbed of him caring much about, you know, religious, practices or going to church. In fact, he uses science to challenge some of the teachings say of religion, for example. He looks at all the fossil layers in valleys around Florence and takes wonderful notes about them and drawings and says that these were built. Up over thousands and thousands of years. So the biblical account of the flood of the deluge is not correct. And so he's willing to use to challenge conventional religious dogma that said he wasn't anti-religious, and he does many Madonna's and other devotional paintings. I think you see the beginning of the renaissance the beginning of the scientific method where people aren't just looking to only religion to give truce Leonardo as saying there's other ways to find truths. It seems like his impact is inexhaustible spin reported. There are plans to DNA test a lock of his hair and compare it possibly to living descendants. It's twenty three and me for Leonardo and his clan. Yeah. I think that would be fun. He had no children. So they would be in direct descendant has it is. Yes, it would be fun. You know, we're we're going into a new age of biotech. And Leonardo would've loved it because he loved Madison and Adamy physiology, and what we have now with DNA is sort of the wonderful code that helps explain some of our traits. And I think Leonardo would understand as a humanist how we have to make these connections between what is encoded by our bodies. And to what extent we ourselves can determine who we wanna be what we want to believe that something Leonardo wrestled with his whole life. And that's what makes them relevant after his death. Leonardo da Vinci died five hundred years ago today, we're learning a lot more about him from Walter Isaacson. The former editor of time magazine and former CEO of CNN he's now a history professor at lane, New Orleans and biographer of Davinci Moorhead. Planet money tip number seventeen. Sometimes life is exactly like the movies. You might have thirty seconds. They set d minus. Planet money a podcast about the economy and sometimes about rocket ships back now to our conversation on Leonardo da Vinci with biographer Walter Isaacson. You may also know his books about Steve Jobs and Benjamin Franklin will the five hundred year celebrations are on Walter Isaacson aside from doing interviews with grateful audiences. Are you taking part of what are you seeing as you look around the world activities honoring Leonardo in his life? That are the most interesting. Oh, I think there's wonderful museum and other exhibitions in England. The great anatomy drawings are owned by her majesty the Queen there in the Royal collection, but they're being shown in places all over England. So it would make a wonderful drive like was take museum in the Netherlands has a I've been there. It's an absolutely beautiful exhibition. The Louvre, of course, will do the ultimate exhibition because they have. The Mona Lisa as well. As the say, an and many other great paintings and then Bill Gates his notebook as as we speak in Florence. And then there's a wonderful one in Madrid coming up. So I think people can make if they could great tour of trying to see some of these wonderful celebrations of the life of Leonardo Davinci at the very least don't let yourself be duped by thinking if you've seen the Mona Lisa, and you've seen that mysterious smile that you've you've seen it all when it comes to Leonardo. I think the mysterious smile of the Mona Lisa is to me the ultimate thing about him. Because he's dissected the human face do the nerves and muscles. Just right. But he also understands how emotions from inside a human or effect the motions of the face. And the is. So it's the first painting we have that truly alive. And if you go see it, please try to avoid when you get to the Louvre you'll see every. Nobody there and they're all doing selfies that trying to take pictures of themselves with the Munnelly's doing south southeast. Don't do that put the phone away. And look at the Mona Lisa, and thank this is how Leonardo would have done it. He would have observed it very carefully and felt the thrill of being in the moment. Well, Walter Isaacson, we've talked so much and we've only scratched the surface of Leonardo's contributions and the breadth of his ability and his observations as his biographer in our society have have you let yourself think about what our culture would be look would look like if Leonardo was never with us if you'd never been born. Well, what Leonardo did was he helped spark this ability to connect all of our curiosities and that helped spark the renaissance, but as I said when we were talking about the fossil layers, whatever it's the first nascent feelings the birth. Of the scientific revolution of testing things by experiment over and over in his notebooks. He says, let's do the experiment, and then he revises a theory as based on an experiment, and then he sees the beauty of the science and the beauty of some of the engineering and does beautiful drawings. But that becomes part of his art. So I think we would have had a slower time getting to the modern aid which depends on scientific inquiry and an enlightened view of the connection of spirituality to science to art to the human soul, and we have just a minute left. Walter isaacson. I have to let you go. But I would love to know. When was the last time you stood either on the pontiff Vecchio in Florence or outside of the academy in the square and Florence. Leonardo's hometown and thought about him strolling through on his way to go shopping with his partner or or on his way to do a study. That's an absolutely brilliant question. And I remember just a few months ago being in those narrow streets of Florence exactly where he lived and thinking my goodness. These vary stones he tried over that and then going to see the notebooks there and saying he put his hands on this parchment, and this paper, it was just a thrill the life of Leonardo da Vinci celebrated this year on this day five hundred years to the day since Leonardo's death. Walter Isaacson is the biographer of Leonardo da Vinci in addition to other figures, including Steve Jobs, Albert Einstein Benjamin, Franklin speaking to us from New Orleans. Walter isaacson. Thank you so much for joining us. What a pleasure. Thank you so much what an interesting topic. I appreciate it. And it's wonderful to have you as well. And so many ideas from Walter Isaacson for us to take advantage this year and use the anniversary of Leonardo davinci's death to maybe expand our own minds. Just a little bit. This conversation was produced by stay. She Brown in edited by Miranda full more to learn more about statia and Miranda and the rest of the great team here at one eight visit the website, the one eight dot org slash staff. This program comes to you from W AMU part of American University in Washington, it's distributed by NPR until we meet again, I'm Todd's will infra Joshua Johnson. Thank you so much for being here. And for listening to this conversation all about the contributions of the division. This is one.

Leonardo Leonardo da Vinci Leonardo da Vinci Walter Isaacson Florence Leonardo Davinci Mona Lisa Bill Gates NPR Vinci Leonardo Dan Brown Steve jobs Todd NPR New Orleans Benjamin Franklin Joshua Johnson Washington Davinci
Monster buff Leonardo da Vinci would have loved Halloween

Ideas

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Monster buff Leonardo da Vinci would have loved Halloween

"Hi I'm Jamie for the last decade I've been a newspaper reporter Hours in the consulates appearance or my I want to change that at least cast this is a CBC when you hear the name Tyson beautiful paintings like the Mona Lisa and the last supper but every so often there is a drawing of something else room of his own lizards crickets serpents butterflies locusts from time to time Leonardo Davinci took a break from his scientific mentality this fit in with his supposedly rational scientific and skeptical historian Ross King on today's episode we'll find out why of the water lilies which one the twenty seventeen rbis Taylor price his book and now lives in Oxford in the UK where we've reached him I wanted to start with I because it's in London is the Forster Kota sees these little and when is how small his handwriting is everyone knows that he was left handed in I today and I think it brings back to you both how steady his hand must have been but in incredibly small script but it's really special to see them because thing is just trying to put trying to figure out how things go together be the private life of Land Davinci that you get a glimpse of because it I mean Davinci's such a fascinating character one it His notebook seeing the ink that he had prepared and it may be a a a certain kind of historical proximity to him In the sketches of monsters and dragons can you describe some of those sketches yes series of drawings of cats and Leonardo Da Vinci he liked all animals and and he was clearly planning to Madonna and child painting would have been a wonderful painting and yet in the middle of all of his Catt studies so have a dragon he makes a sketch of a dragon and so I think what's fascinating is that he could is it obviously he had never seen an that merely existed in his imagination that playing with this motif of monsters dragons giants it Cetera in Anthony when San Antonio was tempted by demons which then of course gave you license who've had an interest in monstrous for their own sake was Leonard Da Vinci trusted in animal throughout the course of his career they did all sorts of dissections the brain of an ox in order to figure out the structure of the ventricles and so dan how they were put together in one of his notes to himself says study what they were made of and he and so he was looking very empirically US carrying risks and on his list of eighty what he writes about the the Unicorn the Bacilus the Mermaid auster and a dragon or something like that later tells us apparently in all seriousness minor that is so bright it absorbs its own shadow and once again America for that reason his drawing on ancient mythology of course a plan to creating his own best jury so the question then is what realistically as his science how do these MERMAIDS UNICORNS giants names that those scientists are vain and full of error which are not born of Experience News and for him of course the guy is the chief organ he says in order that scientists embrace kind of forerunner of them someone who suddenly have these things that he's interested in that he cannot have known through the five what you can see with the eye what you can experience through taste and touch and so forth fin and also the monsters that for whatever reason we'll come to a couple of possibilities these dragons for example that you find drawn throughout throughout his looking at monsters and and superstitions and things like this not he studied proportions throughout his life trying to find the because we all know what a snow angel is here the snow angel the two perfect geometrical forms the square and the circle we are geometrically concerned with measuring measuring the body this is something he got from vitro via Dan would go from his hairline to the bottom of his chain etc mix all of these Cova Jodi we just know them after the names of their home the hometowns they came the in relation to the forehead nose to the chain etc the space between hi this at home do these ratios were get your ruler tape measure and see if does interest in the grotesque the ugly the Reptilian did not know him bizarre was born in Fifty and eleven so too late to know him God some of their stories and one of them is about the first work of art that we inch so Leonardo's probably twelve thirteen fourteen years old at this time after you paint the shield for him so vizor he tells us a and other kinds of lizards crickets serpents butterflies locusts double monster but it's also interesting I'll come back to this that it is a kind of tells us foul smelling creature in the room he after he discards return the room and leaps back and I very upset at what is done but afterwards a notary apprentices him to Andrea del Rocco so possibly Justin Childish Prank either because there's another story about him when he was living in the Vatican and the Vatican Gardner one day discovered a lizard of some other lizards and bats and birds and things like that put a pair of wings on it frightened by it and so it would have this sort of practical joke you always have to late order was a showman and they don't have talked to talk about it but it's like creating hit the Duke of Milan Ludovico Sforza and he begins making effectively a few of Leonardo's drawings for them but this is part of the visual culture of Milan in describing his mind teamed with his kind of invention throughout his life if his first asked recorded work of art is lost to us it survives in a sketch look law's painting but an eyewitness in fifteen seventeen two years before he the first of Friends of a dragon fighting a lion that were being shown at that time we're things like is painting of Saint John the Baptist now in the Liuw but when he described dragons and dragons recur throughout his writings he described Mike when he assembled that serpent in his bedroom for the peasants in Vinci Ed distinctive but nevertheless there we have it for the knows a greyhound the brow the thing about these descriptions that he makes is that they're very much based in physical create before him and why is that interesting it's interesting because links up the Erica on Sirius. Xm In Australia on our N.. And around the world at I love it Leonardo Da Vinci was a true Rene Saenz his most well known work but DAVINCI was fascinated by monsters including giant it does fear what the imagination could do in this episode at the imagination destroying everything what is this power our guide monsters yeah it's very interesting monsters originally a kind of transgression monsters occurring and usually they have a kind of genealogy we learn about the the parents uh-huh or what they could see the evidence obviously conjoined because they were a Christian you had ask yourself does this creature have a soul humanity is or should be why has gone allowed to exist he he said that it was all part of a divine plan and That monster is there a reference to a warning so the monster is an idea of a warning or a display something that was to come often something that was going to be quite unpleasant and so a deformed birth either in humans or cattle for example sort of standard bearers of reason and and enlightenment has the nothing ever happens nothing of significance ever happens in the state this is what monsters represented before Davinci what was a higher part of the brain imagination was simply didn't necessarily make sense and therefore you got people like Plato Against Monsters and criticized them for in works like the Horace saying that they're inconceivable bizarre curiosities and brain comes up with these these images that don't you should not create in pigment on wall or people had done so but there was this philosophical sanction against it from can work with imagination can be rational there's kind of rationality he exults them he says this is what makes the artist like a God because God sure I mean something that comes out of his imagination talking about the brain and as I said he did dissect an ox head and in Rome and it does appear that he was looking at the human brain and making through aristotle galen the or the Roman a for medicine things like that Galen was the last word Gaylon of course just and before the three ventricles in the brain was said coming from the I. At cetera into that first ventricle of the brain that's standing all of these things take place so it's a higher function than the imagination the third is a kind of storage house or a storage jar that's the memory where we retain is he seemed to accept it at first but then very quickly abandoned and impressions he calls it the imprint Ziva and he has invented that were storehouse this warehouse where the raw data comes into the second enjoyment intellect and then crucially the imagination or what he calls nobody and so in order to really upgrades imagination he moves it into the same chamber with them or perhaps equivalent and so this becomes a is the way the Plato for Plato Imagination and reason we're completely divorced great examples of that way there's a kind of recombination of visual data painter wishes to see beauties which will enamored him his Lord of their production his answer is celebrating this kind of creation in the way that and to create both dragons but also I think if you look at the opposite third with the kind of judgment in cut this harmonious relationship he's celebrated ultimately fall out of favor during the enlightenment during the age figuring the enlightenment in Spain was fair Ho who wrote against all superstitious peasants we have to discard them even more famously explanation and I got the encyclopedia last them these figures that are are human on the talk compelling where horses were domesticated for the first time and creatures for one and this is where the center comes from although interestingly you're so he almost backtracks on the rational explanation that he's given which is statement about monsters from the enlightenment Goya which is his the origin of Marvel's and if we just look at that back reserve exchange two clauses nation produce beautiful art they produce wonderful art and also as resort back to the Plato back to horace but we're also in some ways back and this of course is a fear of the enlightenment possibly the great fear of the Enlightenment Age of reason the century can answer this question with terrors round can reason hold is

Leonardo Da Vinci Jamie reporter Australia Rene twelve thirteen fourteen years fifteen seventeen two years one day
E27: Amaretto Sour, Massimo Giuseppe Bossetti, and the Soap-Maker of Correggio

Killer Cocktails

43:16 min | 1 year ago

E27: Amaretto Sour, Massimo Giuseppe Bossetti, and the Soap-Maker of Correggio

"Hey, guys. You are listening to killer cocktails where the drinks are stiff, but the bodies are stiffer. This is a casual true crime podcast where to friends get drunk and talk about gruesome murders each week. We pick different drink whose name or ingredients set the tone for our stories. Okay. Guys. Welcome back to another week killer cocktails. We are drinking a cocktail. And that cocktail is you forgot, and that's real. You're telling. You were ever at it. Stalling this week. We are drinking the amaretto sour, smooth dre. Thanks. These are TC. They're really good on upon first sip. I went who alike it, and I'm mmediately went. I'm going to have another one of these at some point malign. Yeah. Ten point in my life. Like this year. I've been creating like a summer cocktails list of things that when I am out and about and get a drink ragged. You all have this. And I know and this is like a little dish baggy, pardon me, with another people go, what did you just go out of sour, then they tasted like, that's really where you like educate. Other people are delicious choice you love educating. I do. Yeah. Being a little bit of a douchebag. Yup. That was my place. So the first one I made us it was like the you'd say the classic recipe. You have your Moretto you're supposed to have cast proof bourbon. We just had buffalo. Trace you have your fresh lemon juice simple syrup and white, and you just kinda shaky shaky shaky and it's still should garnish with limited cherry and so good so good. But then we saw we this week tasting drink sweet tasting drink for sure. And then we saw this other recipe. That's even simpler, it's Moretto sweet sour mix in like spray and this one just as like a soda a different kind of soda. Yeah. Yeah. With the bubbles and everything through similar issue tasting drinks. But also kind of super different my mind. This is like what Kyle was I feel like if you went out, and you ordered one obviously, there's a variety of ways for someone to make it. But I like the variety like, I wouldn't be bent out of shape. Whichever way the bartender took it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they can mess this up unless are trying. Yeah. Yeah. But I would definitely say this is a very refreshing probably more spring summertime for this one. When I was looking into Onorato 's because they didn't know much about him just Rono is in Morocco. And I just remember those commercials from like the nineties have like disarray. No on the rocks like it like stuck in my psyche. Yeah. And then I was like is it actually a good? I looked up. Right. So it's a decent Onorato in what they were saying is if you get a really cheap, I'm retto like a ten dollar Onorato that they're really like sticky. Sweet. Oh, and sometimes that can make the cocktail a little like too sweet for people. Yeah. So you have to have a good Onorato. And then you create the sweetness with other things, I think this was the perfect kind. Like, I think I am not sweetened climbed definitely shaver in. I'm really liking this cocktail. And then by there was a bacon. Cocktail. This cocktail was actually recommended to buy an avid listener. That's right. Actually, Kyle's really good friend. Tom who lives in Texas? What up Tom? Thank you, Tom. You always text him about different episodes. So thank you for listening. Tom, Tom, Tom time. Okay. The murder. So I'm gonna give you a little bit history Birkdale. We look this up very last minute. So ultimately what I discovered is that it was his crime as an elusive cocktail. Oh that there is very little in the way of stories attached to it. Okay. While many cocktails have people clamoring over who invented this one. They kinda say was lost to the times. Okay. So while we don't really have anyone to pin it on or any specific bar or anything like that. They kind of think that it most likely was created in the nineteen seventies. So I'm going to get a little reading here for a minute. It was around that time that Italian spirits and liqueurs were starting to become fashionable in the states. So you had a lot of Italian immigrants in German immigrants coming into the US. Well before the seventies. Obviously. And Italians kept trying to get people into their drinks. And people were like, bitter people like wine and times loved, you know, wine with dinner. But there were what do you call it? There's a term there's like before dinner drinks and dinner, drink say operatives stuff like that. But people always kinda found him bitter. And then there was like the lagers with Germany and Americans loved really, sweet drinks. They really liked bourbon with sugar mashed into it in like, it's always been America's always had a bit of week. The nagourney. I think is another Italian and that took a while for for that to catch on here in America. Anyway, so they start importing Onorato disarray. No. And it becomes a sensation in the US. Because it's sweet it's nutty, and it's very palatable. So do drink it on the rocks like the Geico say of yes about that. That's what's cool about on Renos. You can have it on the rocks. You can mix it into spirits. There's a you put it in coffee. There's a bunch of different ways. Enjoy it. Yes. And it is the key greedy in two drinks called the godfather godmother godchild, apparently and those ones us on in either scotch vodka or cream, there's all sorts of different kinds of things that you can do. And that's kind of the history of shorten sweet. Yeah. I like this cocktail a little bit. Awesome. Thank you, Jackie. I think we're going to jump into the murder murder. All right. I'm gonna tell you about Leonardo Chint, usually I like it. Yeah. All right. The Narda was born on November the lady. Yeah. Leonardo data. Yeah. She was born on November fourteenth 1893 in month, della province of AVI, Lino weird. This is an old story. Yeah. Weird. And we're going back to Italy. I like it like our Moretto from Italy's U tie. There's matai. All right. We're gonna jump into her early life, which I don't know much about. Other than that. Her mother was not a very nice woman. Oh, always tell a Leonardo that she was cursed by the devil, and she would never do anything with her life. Unfortunately, I think her home life kind of drove her to try to commit suicide twice while growing up as a kid as a kid, so rare, isn't it? I feel like I read it more in today's teenagers or different than kit. Yeah. I would I would kid is rare. Yeah. I wanna say she was like early kid going into teens. So sad regardless it sad. But so in nineteen fourteen she marries, a register office clerk name Ruffy, L, pun Sardi. But her parents are not about this guy because they wanted her to marry this other guy, I don't think it was arranged marriage. But I think it was kind of like it was strongly. That's who you're gonna marry so other than that. They she goes and gets married to the the clerk and at the wedding. Leonardo's mother Kirsch is the new couple o- plea. Yeah. She's like she puts on an old lady Italian curse on them. Like, you'll never amount to anything brought up our hate it. So the couple then moves to lure. Linnea in alter protein. We're at least. I'm so sorry. Parts of it. Yeah. Ram in Leonardo is sent to jail for short time for fraud. And then their home is destroyed by an earthquake in nineteen thirty SU. So they're like, maybe we are cursed. I mean, the fraud is probably on them. But. Luck is where you've look for it. Yeah. And so they decide to move to Korea geo where Leonardo opens the small shop becomes very popular around town people described as kind of shop nice and gentle woman. I don't know shop. That's a little tricky. Shoplift says, she gets a little tricky little chat skis. We'll just getting. Everyone around town like she's nice. She's awesome. She's the sweetest so Leonardo a bit of a b. But she's not even around. So the Leonardo starts to get pregnant as you do when you're married, and she actually becomes pregnant seventeen times. Yeah. Gives birth to seventeen people or no, not quite. So she has three miscarriages and then ten children die before they reach Egypt. Ten. K K. So obviously, she I give you a side. Yeah. It's not that. Okay. So obviously Kevin kids in the olden Lia into or she's cursed. How did I forget? So obviously, obviously she becomes very protective of the for children who are still alive and on top of that before she started having children, a fortune teller told her that she would marry and have children, but that all of the children would die. So she has this kind of prophecy going into all this. These an issue with these. Fortuneteller? Yeah. What's your shoe? So it's either complete hocus pocus K. Uh-huh. Either complete hogwash and. The person I feel like it just takes advantage of people who are in this place where they're searching for something. And so you you're talking to someone who you consider thority on whatever. And they tell you something that either relieves you or stresses you out, and if they tell you they tell you prison, they tell you all these things they'll fulfilling prophecy a little bit. Or if let's say, let's benefit of the doubt. Okay. Kind of a weird position to be in to tell somebody. All your children children are gonna die. Yeah. Like, I don't know if I saw that. You need to tell the mother that. Yeah. Yeah. You could see it. And then be like, hey, you've got a hard life ahead. I don't know the show. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know maybe honesty is the best policy when it comes to knowing the future tellers, but I just I don't know. She also saw another fortune teller who practice palm reading and this person told her in your right hand, I see prison and in your left criminal asylum. So maybe a little, you know, can I have what is that foreshadowing for the future? Yeah. So in nineteen thirty nine leonardos smallest town where the no she's been to jail for fraud. No. She moved remember. Yeah. Yeah. And now the town thinks she's amazing. She has a little shop room. But these fortune tellers were back in our old town. So I feel like those are before she was having children. Okay. Maybe her mother's friends. I don't know. Yeah. This is all just her mother trying to get to her exactly. So in nineteen thirty nine Leonardus eldest son just Sepe got lifted to join the Italian army to go fight in World War taste, choose going on everyone's affected by all. Wars weird. So just up just happened to be Leonardus favorite child. And she decided she wanted to protect him at all costs. So over the years Leonardo had become very superstitious as we have heard is she decided that in order to keep your children safe. She would need to start making human sacrifices, a leap Philippe. Yeah. Obviously, there's some data in here that missing. But that is the conclusion she got you so Leonardus first victim was foot Stena SETI who was a lifelong spinster. And so she knows Leonardo from Ron town. And she goes to her one day, and she's just in her shop and Leonardo's like I can help you find a husband, and she's like say. And Leonardo was like, yeah. I actually have the perfect guy for you in he lives in Pola Italy. And she's like you don't want to it. Don't tell anybody about him yet. She also convinces a festina to write letters and postcards ahead of time to relatives. And friends saying she had met the love of her life and that she was safe in her new home. So on the day festina is supposed to leave. She goes taking advantage lonely. People is so sad. Yeah. All right. So festina goes to Leonardo because she's about to leave and Leonardo's like, I'm so happy for you. Let's celebrate. Here's some wine. So she gives her the wine, and it's obviously drugged and so festina packing drug affiliate. That's a great movie yoga watch percents. Brian. Dying. Festiva passes out in leeann Narda takes an axe in kills festina while she's sleeping with an ex in her like shop, I wanna say it's in the back room. But yeah, she then drags the body into a closet and cuts the body into nine parts in gathers the blood into a bucket, and this is an entry from her diary. She then. Got to keep a diary. If you're committing crimes. Yes. Keep that data everyone if you're going to commit a crime, please write down detailed notes. Yes. Yes. Extra friends about it. Facebook live it. She then so this from her diary, she then throws the pieces of body and blood into a pot and add seven kilos of sodium hydroxide AK lie in jersey until the pieces of body have dissolved into thick dark mush, she then pours the mixture into several buckets and empties it into a nearby septic tank. Yawn. She then waits for the blood in the puck to quietly and dried it out in the oven grounded and mix it with flour sugar chocolate milk eggs as well as a bit of margarine needing all the ingredients together. And she says in her diary, I made lots of crunchy tea cakes and serve them to the lady ladies who came to visit though just Sepe, and I also ate them. Okay. I was taking a sip was mildly detracted. What she she's intially took the quietly blood. She tried it out put in the oven mixed it in what she made her own like almond flour. But with blood, okay. Yeah. Okay. She poured most of the going to a septic tank. Yes. But then she still had some leftover and she decided to make TK out them cut. She kicks and she ate them. Her son's eight them. Everyone around town ate them. That is mean to involve other people crazy to have just magin going to someone's shop or just imagine. That someone offers you a treat and we all love being offered treats. And we all partake in the treats. And then tell him that person like this is delicious, and then going on about it, and she's like high. Will now here's a follow up question. How many free treats have you taken in your life? And how many do you think have been weird free treats? Jackie. But I know someone brings free treats to all the time. Listen. Yeah. They never eat them. Yeah. Oh my God. I hate it. Oh, do this remind even anything yet? Probably not yet. Okay. We'll keep reading something in the store is going to remind you of a movie, I think, I know, but I never saw it chuckled. No, no, come. The plot of that movie at all. Magic. I never. A love story. Oh. Yeah. All right. So Leonardo also took a festive life a movie that's not yet. You will. No, go ahead. You just told me, okay. So you're not a also takes the life savings of festina, which is thirty thousand Lear which is about five thousand five hundred leader. I don't know that. That's okay. When I don't know if I'm right? But man, it sounds right. Okay. So she took about five thousand five hundred dollars from her. As payments for her services. Oh, my this. Ladies. She's trying to save children. Yeah. So Leonardo also new franchesca? So so AVI, and she was like, your friend. I found you a job friend. I found you a job at a school for girls in Pia since again, Leonardo convinces franchesca to write postcards to be sent to friends explaining her new situation in than Francesca comes to see Narda before she leaves on her new journey, and again, Leonardo gives Francesca some drugged wine and kills her with an axe on September fifth of nineteen forty dang. And again, Leonardo makes the body into cheek aches and passes them out to people around town is outrageous. All right, then so much. About cake about. Yeah. What if it was the best cake you've ever had more mad? That you treat me the lightning cannibal cakes. Yeah. Campbell kings. Get your cannibal cakes. Not. I'd be mad Traya. I'm sorry. I did. That's me. I'd be mad. I can't cook. Gonna make you crunchy. This is not going to happen. Okay. So now, I'm going to tell you about Virginia Chope, though, catch OPEL vigil Virginia was a former soprano who sung at less Scotla. She met learned Nardo note, Leonardo you're not it was like you got a job for you as a secretary in Florence. And again, she told her not to tell anyone about the job and again Virginia. Agreed. I don't understand that at all. Well, let's pre write letters. You. Gotta think what's supposed to service like in the forties. You've telephones in the forties, right? Really forty have homes. It's the war you got phone telegrams. For sure you got TV's gonna come out in a decade. Tv's out color. Tv don't know where the Asli story. Anyway, I could see if you're going to be in a you could spin an argument that there's going to be a hiccup with the male, right? These ahead of time. So we can get him out to your family. Doesn't worry. Yeah. All right. So. On September thirtieth nineteen forty. She went to see Leonardo before her trip in Leonardo drug her and killed kilter with an x Leonardo puts through Meade's inner pot again in in her diary. She wrote her flesh was fat and white when it had melted. I added a bottle of Cologne and after a long time on the boil I was able to make some most acceptable creamy soap. I gave bars to neighbours in acquaint. The cakes too were better. That woman was really sweet. Do you know what movies from now? Yeah. Yeah. They're. Yeah. Different than shrug lot. Yeah. I'm really glad I asked you in the beginning. And. Oh, yeah. I know the movie, but I haven't seen it for Fisher Houston. So again, Leonardo steal some money from her about nine thousand dollars and some jewels from Virginia so. Some of the family is getting kind of you know, suspicious. Yeah, Virginia's sister-in-law was the first to come forward because she's like frigid you just kind of left suddenly and the last I heard she was was at Leonardo's house. So she reported her suspicions superintendent of police who opened investigation in soon arrested Leonardo Leonardo immediately confessed to the murders providing detailed account of what she had done. She has her diary to that. Just kinda. Yeah. Nail in the Falkland. Yeah. She has her crunchy biscuit, risky recipe. That she was tried for murder and in nineteen forty six during the trial. She showed no remorse going so far as to correct the official count while on the stand. She quote unquote said I gave the copper ladle which I use the skin the fat off the kettles to my country, which was so badly in need of medal during the last days of the war. She was found guilty for crimes incense to thirty years in prison and three years in criminal sign. Lynn. The two hands lift. Leonardo a died of cerebral apocalypse, apocalypse. She died of a stroke, essentially in the women's criminal Silom. On October fifteenth of nineteen seventy a number of artifacts from the case, including the pot in which the victims were boiled are on display at the criminology museum in Rome. Whoa. And she also wrote a memo memoir called and embittered soul's confessions, which kind of details her life and crimes day. Yeah. And that is I feel like would you go? I feel like I could only go to murder museum if it was like hell of old with what like a hell like a murder museum about really old crimes. Yeah. Elegant I wanna go to the don't know that is of the I don't know they wanna go to anything recent. You've got to put some time between it. Yeah. Yeah. What was it? Did we tell this one? Or did I tell you one of the I think I was just telling you about it one of the crimes to place on like an old farm place, and it was like a mass murder of the whole family. Yeah. And they to pay off the mortgage in the debt that the family left over the family pay like made it. Yeah. To like walk through. And there was like a fruitcake on the counter that the left because that's what had been left out and people started taking raisins from the fruitcake like as souvenirs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll Jackie that was a soap maker of quota Rigo. Yeah. Yeah. Gross strata anytime. Anytime you wanna come over for the tickets. I wanna watch you pop the seal. Normally break time. Yeah. Been taking breaks just go the bathroom or for a stranger. Okay. Right. Okay. I'm gonna tell you a story that took place in Italy. Italy. Italy originally, I feel like I was gonna tell you about an almond murder. But then I ended up not doing that one. Okay. So on November twenty six two thousand ten oh, okay. Little after five PM. This one said a thirteen year old girl named Yara Gumby Rossio Gumby Rossio, so she leaves her house, and she's headed down the street, and all she's gonna do she's gonna take a stereo whether she's in a she's gymnasts. Okay. And she's got a performance that Sunday. So she's gonna take a stereo down and leave it with her instructor. Okay. And the sports complex is like seven hundred like less than half a mile from hell does she get thirteen thirteen which maybe now people have a problem with? But I like joking with my family like I was straight up six and might like no older than sex. My brother was no older than eight. And we would ride our bikes everywhere. My parents knew we were maybe within a square mile of the house. Yeah. We'd ride down to the liquor store. Buy candy bar hang out at the creek. We go down to the canyon. We were all over the place. Yeah. Okay. So she's going to go drop this stereo after her instructor 'cause she's got this performance coming up on Sunday. And so she leaves the house round five ish than they say that she left the sports complex round like six forty five sober structure says he is our she came into tumbled around for a bit. And then she left. There's a text message that she sent to a friend at six forty four PM that said, hey, like, I'm excited you Sunday. Like it wasn't about like, I'm walking home. But like that's last time she had possession over phones and sentenced. So they think she left round like six forty five. Then she's not back way seven her family's getting concerned. They kinda worried they call her voice. Call her phone. It goes straight to voicemail. The like so seven clock. They're worried that call her at seven ten seven ten she doesn't pick up by seven twenty. They've called the police in there like something's. Okay. Yeah. So they're pretty on it and quick a search goes underway. So this is again, this is in November of two thousand ten they won't find her body until February twenty six two thousand eleven several months Bill by her body was found in Telliance hard. Chinoy no-load diesel. It's about ten kilometers from where she went missing. This guy was out flying a remote control airplane, and he's like having issues with the airplane lands it and goes over basically he's in a field playing with this remote control airplane. And then while he's out in this field. He discovers to think I mean to think if he was like, you know, I don't feel good today. I when I go out to you know, like happenstance. No, that's crazy. So was it was she buried or she they find her ipod her keys her phone book battery, but no phone, okay? They her body showed multiple superficial cuts shoot like defensive looms or they say possibly made by pointed objects such as nail or a knife. And a large wound on her head. So later on that summer, the final autopsy hadn't been released yet. But there's all sorts of speculation like leaked documents and stuff, and they're saying that her death was caused by a combination of the head blow as from falling on a hard surface or being hit with stones shit this big head blow and that at least six wounds or cuts that were not deadly. They're calling superficial. Like just kind of stabbings. I guess. It's determined. I think ultimately what they decide is. She's hit on the head. She has all these stabbings, but she died of exposure, oh and left her out there. And and they're saying that while they have trace evidence of stuff that she wasn't sexually assaulted. So originally, they go after this Moroccan guy, and he's arrested because he made a comment that was mis translated. So then it's later cleared up and he's exonerated. And it wasn't in the original recalls reading found in another article. So basically, they have these really short timelines they're kind of on this from the get-go. And my understanding is that they pulled cellphone towers, and they know what cell phones are in the area when she went missing. Now, we have we're going to tap all those phones. And it's like fifty thousand phones are small town. Yeah. But basically, they're eavesdropping tapping into this guy's phone may hear him say something about I didn't mean to kill her. But they must translated. But they mistranslated this not what he said, you know, said then later cleared up. But I was just fascinated by the fact that you've got this murder now, we're tapping all these phones fifty thousand I think that's correct. That's insane. But without this. It's just like any cell phone office tower in the last day. Yeah. That's still interesting that you have that kind of scope power to do that. Yep. Like a switch. They flip. And they're just listening. I I don't know. Oh, like, America's different than Italy. Like, I don't know. How the oh I forgot where in Italy. So. They find trace evidence of genetic material taken off her pants and leggings. And it's so basically, they get some DNA I think offer under this is like pants and closed, but then on another article that said underpants, but so somewhere in her clothing, they find DNA evidence. And now, they're comparing it to all these DNA profiles. They create a suspect DNA in the call it ignorant. Oh, one means unknown one. So here's the DNA profile. This is who were after a pretty sure this is the this is the killer. Then he ended up like going to couple different wild goose chases. So the Moroccan Gaza loggers chase. Then they decide that because she was found in this field. There's a club nearby, and it's cold a camera with the Italian name is for at quicksand so took a club and the club has a membership. And so they know all the people who are regulars, and what the investigation thinking is this is kind of a weird remote area that people tend to don't body like they'll like in places that they know. So they're thinking, maybe whoever dropped his body here goes to this club. So then they're like searching through the records of the club of the memberships. And then they just kinda stake it out and they're just in front of the club just asking for people's DNA. So they're doing these big searches and people are giving their DNA. So as part of one of these like stings on this thing. One of these like gathered as as at the club is they get some DNA. That's not exact match, but it's really close. So like relative to. Essentially. Okay. So this racer tension to domino, Gregory Nonni, Kurt legit. He's alternately cleared because he was out of the country when this all happened. Okay. But like his DNA they're like they're excited about his DNA. So it's this covered that his mother was hired help in yours home. Oh, and that this against the very small town. But that she had been there twice a week for forever. Like for a long time ago. He's not currently employed by them. So they investigate her. And they're still like, basically when they're talking to this lady Viggo, this is just a crazy coincidence. Okay. They kind of the exhausted, and they go she really cares about this family. She really cares about this girl. This is a small town weird. But they're still really obsessed with this guy's DNA. So then from that they kind of whittled down, and they're like going through family trees the become obsessed with this family tree. And they ultimately land on this guy. Just Sepe GIO Guerrino quarry Nonni my Sepe. Seven. Envy. Like go back to his house. He died in nineteen ninety nine. He's not around. Yeah. But his d like they're convinced. He's the guy not the murderer. But like he's part of anyway, they go into the ten correct. Been dead for a long time. Yeah, they find a stamp that he supposedly licked. Okay. And they pull his DNA, and they're like this is the father of Ignatov one. Based off children. Yeah. But all the children are so it's an illegitimate child. Everyone else cleared. So now, they're like all right. We got this potential saliva off this twenty year old stamp that might have been licked that might have been like we think it was liked by Giuseppi. We're now positive that separates illegitimate child. Because now we've got his wife's DNA like we're pretty positive that. There's a a kid out there. Oh, not to the murderer is what a hit for that wife too. Yeah. So then look bunch of rigmarole. It eventually lands them on this guy who is a local Italian bricklayer living in the area. That was the other part of it was they've found on her clothing, the found traces of lime and I can't remember the name of it essentially type of rope. I think we'll come across it in a bit here. So there was already a working theory that the murderer was a labor like like he worked in building in some. So now they've got this guy who they do. Discover is no limit son of Giuseppi and his name is mossy mo- Giuseppi SETI mall. And so he becomes a target investigations. Because his mother's DNA is tested, and they're like, all right. Yes. They're figuring all this out through all these blood tests because they wanted to observe him for several months before confronting the wanna make sure he's the guy they. Create this situation where essentially they try to have him do a Breathalyzer tests. And that's when they get his DNA. So they staged this whole other thing to get his DNA. And then they're like boom matches the crime. Oh, he's our guy. Now, we're in. So he's arrested on June sixteenth two thousand fourteen charged with murder you killed this little girl, your DNA matches the DNA that's found on her body. But said he is claimed all along he is innocent. He states that he suffered from idle this up suffered from epi stocks is-, which is some sort of like your nose bleeds all the time. I guess a okay, he says, it someone had stolen all a bunch of his work tools, including a knife in all in a travel and the DNA proof is fabricated, or there was excessive exposure due to weather or the humans mess it up. So he's just like, I'm missing budget tools. And I have a blood thing riceville blood on other stuff, and you don't that? True. Yes. Uh-huh. And did he ever report all that stuff stolen? None of that's really broad. So basically he's like I'm innocent. Here's all the reasons why I think you're cases bullshit. But they the police maintain that the samples of excellent quality nothing happened to it. And they're so sure of his guilt that they don't offer him. A plea plea bargain, they won't let him confess. They're like. Nope. We're just you're guilty. Wow. He's charged with life imprisonment his wife confirms his alibi. She's like he was with me. And she's not believed they say the phone recordings that I was gonna say that was four years ago. How do you know where you were all specific day? That's really what I did yesterday. I was home all day. I have no alibi. He making tea cakes. Cleaning. Ramsey sorry. So then January first two thousand fifteen a scientific advisor to the court states that so basically they bring in this. And if you're the defense, you're hiring people to be like, no for this reason. That's no. So they hire this guy. Who's like, I don't think that his DNA matches. And here's the reasons I don't think it matches. And there's a there's I'm not going to get into this the nitty gritty of it. If you wanna get DNA nuts about it. There's an argument to be made as to why this is incorrect, not his. So let's pretend that he's incorrectly in prison, and it wasn't him who could be. Yeah. So his defense are saying that it was an instructor at the gym that Sylvia Brenna was the focus of their, you know, they're they're saying, it's her her blood was found on the sleeves of yours jacket. Was it? Identified by Danna. Whoa. That on the night of yours disappearance, Sylvia. Brennan's father said that she cried all night, although she has given no reason for this under questioning she said that she remembered nothing and could not explain why she or her brother had sent text messages to each other at the time of your yards disappearance, and why they hit immediately deleted those text messages without any others. Just the messages to other. Well, how did you text anything about that though? If you knew George to help you move a body call him, what would her motive be? I don't know baby. It was an accident. I don't know. I don't mean to her you just the town. I've had are you doing the end of Jhangvi? No. So we don't know there's a dude in jail who was found guilty. I went to jail. Oh, he's in jail. I is down guilty. They vity name matches. He says he's innocent. But the courts have found him guilty went through appeals the appeals found what he's guilty. What was his motive? He has no connection to her. N he had. No prior whatever he was never not mentioning the guardian did a really detailed article about it. If you want more details on it. The guardian has a really great. Yeah. Article. Wow. I'm at that. Because I don't get a closure. I yeah. Well, who do you think on its surface? Yeah. Just Sepe did it, and he you know, he's in jail for it. But like mossy most used me, what's his blood was all over the girl too. I don't like I that's why I included it that's wizard complete hearsay. I know one don't come after me. But I think just be saw her attacked her. But it's weird that there was no violation of sexual nature. But then at the same time, it's the gym teacher. She was tumbling around. Maybe there was an accident. Maybe she freaked out. I don't know why she wouldn't just call the cops. Because then maybe she did have a little bit more to do with it. And then she takes her brother. I don't know. There's a tire tracks out to where the body. That was good. I mean, the the story about the instructor it just is so confusing. Yeah. There's a lot of those like why? Yeah. Why didn't follow up on it? Like, yeah. I'd like to think of investigators did all that worked heard all that. And there is a man in jail for it. So he's probably did it. I mean, we see people go to jail the time. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, I'll definitely look this one up because that's has their their need documentaries or any their visas. I feel like there was a movie made or like a miniseries. Yeah. Oh that girl. She just oh, wait, I'm thinking of difference for gonna tell you. Oh, I don't think there's anything that the poor girl was just going now kept, you know, Italian murders. Every in the pops up, Amanda Knox. Oh, yeah. Which is a crazy story about it's weird. She didn't Papa all for me the most famous Italian murder. I got my ways of Google. It was so annoying. Like one would put like minus. Show me shit with. Not that that in itself. Isn't it? Interesting case fasten, it was just too much. Yeah. It was too much with we've talked about potentially doing different kind of resources that aren't part of this. That are you. And I talked about the same case. And we do bigger cases. That would be one that. I think we both take our. Yeah. Yeah. We were in the works of talking about getting a patriot up and going and covering the cases that you know, everyone knows. But like who doesn't love hearing about them all over again. Like, Ted Bundy gain, you know, it Kemper. Yeah. All right, guys. We'll see you next week on killer cocktails podcasts. Tuning into this week's episode of killer cocktails as always on her talentless, Jackie. Andrea sure. Be sure to check out her Instagram at the cocktails podcast or stop by our website killer cocktails podcast dot com for up to date information photos, contests more logo logos. Created by Michelle firm whose amazing art founded shell from designs com. Our music was created by Nikolai Highland, and we'll be back next week on hashtag Mondays.

Leonardo Leonardo murder Jackie Italy Onorato Tom time instructor AVI Moretto Virginia Leonardo Chint America Sepe Kyle Moretto Texas US Giuseppi Geico
The Vitruvian Wager | S1E1

Searching for Salai

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

The Vitruvian Wager | S1E1

"Ladies and gentlemen, I am thrilled to introduce you to one of the most knowledgeable historians on the Renaissance. I have ever met Mister Jack Finney off, right? Oh, you are beautiful. I can't believe this. I'm so excited to be here. The universe has called back and we have answered all of our knowledge begins with our perceptions. And today. We finally open our eyes what you're listening to is the beginning of a lecture on Leonardo da Vinci at the Art Institute of Chicago as a member of the Art Institute. I've been to many events just like this but this one thanks to the guest lecturer was by far the most unusual learn is to grow and we are here to grow what made this so different was not the lecturers unbridled energy that you just heard for an art institute talk. I might call that unexpected but I wouldn't characterize it as a dog. Usual nor was it his eerily specific accounts of Renaissance life and culture something that most historians wouldn't dare make claim to know music music was also very popular in the Renaissance stringed instruments were popular because people thought you look ugly playing with the instruments, you know know what was most unusual was that halfway through his lecture Jack Finney destroyed all his credibility when he announced on ironically that he was a time traveler from the fifteen hundreds. Most people when they make claim to being a time traveler are mocked or at least dismissed and no surprise. That's exactly what happened that day. Most of the audience turned on Jack. They either took him or walked out lucky for me though. I'm not most people if you're a podcast net or do you have a lot of time on your hands? You might have come across my little podcast called people of interest. It's an interview Series where I talked with Fascinating People from all walks of life. Now, here's a guy seemingly put together lecturing at one of the most prestigious museums in the country and yet he was making these wildly ridiculous claims. That's a perfect subject in my book. But once I started investigating who Jackson he really was it took me down a path. That was far beyond my previous Ventures and podcasting it took me to a place. I was not expecting to go. This is not people of interest. It's a whole new Journey. My name is Charlotte Warburton and this is searching for Sally shut off. One rule of profiling or investigation is to always be objective, but I'm going to tell you right now. This is not an objective story. It's subjective and at the end of it you're going to have to decide for yourself what you believe. This is a story about the past the future and about opening your eyes to see what lies between it is a story that has changed me a great deal and they've all started with Leonardo DaVinci. It's like Like you're living in the past. That's my producer Sam being a little too vocal about where I started in this process. I mean you have to see it. I think that's an exaggeration. Okay, okay, but tell me you'd be even half as interested in the story if it didn't have something to do with DaVinci. What do you want from me? I was a fine arts major in college. Yeah, but for you it's all about him. It's like an obsession obsessed might be a bit strong, but she does have a point ever since I was young. I have been infatuated with Leonardo DaVinci. Now, we all talk about Leonardo the painter the last supper and the Mona Lisa are probably the most recognized and iconic paintings in the world. But my infatuation has always been about more than just his paintings in addition to home art. He left us with his notebooks over seventy two hundred pages that combine art with science engineering biology and philosophy some of the most shoe. And forward-thinking work of his time for instance. Leonardo's dots on movement and inertia. They nearly predicted what Newton would make his first law of motion almost two hundred years. Later, not every page is filled with Genius. Of course, some of the books have things as mundane as a grocery list, but others contain intricate drawings of anatomy notes and diagrams and Technologies Inc. New water systems and even weapons of war inventions that couldn't be contemplated for centuries like the various flying machines and submarines. He drew and above all there are thoughts and theories about why things are the way they are something I feel like we don't stop to think about enough these days. As for living in the past. Well, what can I say? I love the Renaissance. It was a time where creativity and curiosity created in a long a time when imagination was revered and Leonardo was the Renaissance he was able to take Art and Science and Usher in a new way of thinking he was a true Innovation a an icon whose Brilliance has echoed throughout history and yet there was always a level of mystery to Leonardo. Some of his notes were written in code. He famously wrote in a backwards mirrored hand right off for reasons. We may never know. There are two years of his life that we have no accounting for for someone who kept such detailed notes there seems to be a hole between 1476 and 1478 off even his paintings have a bit of mystery to them. If you close your eyes, you can see that Rhino knowing smile that appears on the face of the Mona Lisa and many of his subjects. It seems suggest off. Maybe Leonardo knew more than he was letting on who knows maybe he did but back to the lecture at the Art Institute and where this all started for me. After Jack finished his enthusiastic opening which included what wine was popular in 1500 Milan and how he himself preferred beer the audience began to get a bit Restless off the staff of the Art Institute who introduced Jack had left the small Auditorium and the twenty or so remaining people began to realize this lecture had very little to do with Leonardo Michelangelo. I don't know such a bitter ugly little man the world, you know sense of of anything bigger than his own accomplishments. Oh, you know what I'm saying? I thought this lecture was about Leonardo when Jack would finally talked about Leonardo. He would be combative or dismissive of other theories. I just think Leonardo was not the first to paint in perspective. I mean painting down to size. You'll get about perspective not how you say he cared about the I how you see perspective to him was not just about the menu the size but loss of color and outline as a knob It gets further away. No one else was thinking that way his paintings were concerned with all attributes of side Darkness light so later the color form and position distances, but I think with emotion and rest know I know you do not it's clear that Jack knew a great deal about Leonardo and his works but it became increasingly harder to keep him on track. He seemed to be much more interested in life than his lecture here. He is interacting with me as I sat recording him in the front row your regarding yes. Yes that okay, of course, of course I am here for you. I just need to make sure that I'm interested in your mind extreme pleasure to be here with you today. You you want I should see. Yeah, should I sing everybody? Yes, you know that loving feeling whoa that loving feeling you lost faith now is gone. Hope well, yeah, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, you don't worry about flying you guys don't like Top Gun and then everything got turned on a said. Excuse me. Do you have any insight about the Vitruvian man? If it's really a man through your man everyone wants to know about this. Yes. It is a drawing made by Leonardo of a perfectly proportioned not as described by the ancient Roman architect Vitruvius this what you asked. Yeah. I was just curious. Do you think this is Leonardo's attempt to relate man to Nature? I mean why put so much money into the proportions of the drawing. What was he trying to say, you know to be honest. It was a bad. That what there was a dinner Giacomo Andreas house, he and Leonardo and Francesco de Giorgio. They were all talking about the true. Yes, and they all make it bad to see who can draw the proportion a man as he is described. Yeah. I've never heard of that. I don't think that's accurate. It's through it was a bad there was a lot of wind involved and and the egos in this room. You wouldn't believe I mean everyone's thoughts that they could do it. Oh and Giacomo Andreas Chef make the most delicious start. They all decide the winner could have the last lives. What are you talking about? This wasn't some bet. It was Leonardo saying that the workings of the human body were an analogy of the workings of the universe know it was about proving his friends wrong as Leonardo da Vinci buff. I've heard many theories on why Leonardo drew the Vitruvian man, but this was a new one for me Faith is true attempts by Francesco de Giorgio and Giacomo Andrea do exist. There is even a record of them having dinner together, but no mention of a drunken vet. Yr. Lecturer insisted that this was the one and only reason Leonardo made his drawing was certainly odd and as he and the contemptuous man from the back of the room continued to argue it became clear. He was losing the audience then to top it off. He said this how would you know, why do you keep insisting? This is what happened back then how could you possibly know what happened off hundreds of years ago? Because I was there know you were there. I have been a longtime pupil and personal friend of Leonardo himself. Some know me as Andreas. Hi. You're you're telling me you're selling and what you travel the time precisely. I don't understand is this part of the lecture? Yeah, you don't understand because this guy's an idiot. There are three types of people those who see those who see when they are shown and those who do not see this is where people started to leave the emotions in the room raised from cautious too confused from dismissive to downright outraged. But the whole time the lecturer Jack had this bemused look on his face was this some sort of comedy bit some outside-the-box way of getting us to engage with his lecture or did he actually believed he was a time-traveling pupil of Leonardo da Vinci. In fact, the only person besides Jack who seemed to be enjoying this chaos was myself something that was not lost on him. All right people if you want off. Can leave that's fine. Go on. You only have first-hand knowledge of the Renaissance from a man who was actually there but I'm sure there is something good on TV tonight as I watch people leave the room one-by-one. We would exchange looks Jack would give me a wink like I was in on the joke on his face. Was that same wry knowing smile that Leonardo painted so many times Right, then something clicked. I needed to know more at this point. There was no part of me that believed the Jack was andreea, Sally still I was intrigued Leonardo. She died a renowned artist and inventor. However in his life, he would sometimes struggle to hold these steam of his patrons and peers. I often thought that people who met him probably thought he was either crazy or brilliant maybe both and here was this guy giving this lecture a guy who was as infatuated know obsessed with Leonardo da Vinci as I am a guy who is so obsessed that he either pretends to be from the Renaissance or he actually believes that he is is he crazy or brilliant maybe sometimes you have to be a little crazy to unlock a little Brilliance off. Whatever he was. He certainly was committed as the last few stragglers were leaving the lecture the man in the last row still had some things to say. So if you're really who you say you are then who was the Mona Lisa when that was a commissioned by Francesco Del. Giocondo of his wife Lisa. Yeah. That's what they say. But Leonardo always wife was not striking enough to paint. Of course. He didn't use the word striking off Joey changed the model. So who was it then you can tell the motor was me. Am searching for Solly is a production of sap and column 5 to uncover more of Charlotte education visit searching for saali.

Leonardo Leonardo da Vinci Mister Jack Finney Leonardo DaVinci Leonardo Leonardo DaVinci Mona Lisa Leonardo Michelangelo Art Institute Art Institute of Chicago Sally guest lecturer Lecturer DaVinci Giacomo Andreas Chef Charlotte Warburton Jackson Giacomo Andreas house Newton producer
Episode 47 Leonardo!

The Past and the Curious

00:00 sec | 2 months ago

Episode 47 Leonardo!

"One day in eighteen, seventy, six and Bath County Kentucky meet fell from the sky. Meet meet me. Yes meet, and in twenty nineteen, we were weird enough to write a book about it. Not just any book because we can't do anything normal. What we decided to do is pretend that the only surviving piece of meat in the world which really doesn't this. Yeah, we made him the narrator of our store. I can't wait to share it with you. It is called the shower. It is available. Now, as we speak is me got enough you're talking right now. As you listen, and as I speak, it is available. Now you can go to our website the past curious dot com or the publisher's website early works dot com for more information. On needs. So you're telling me that they made a Mona Lisa entirely out of chewed bubblegum. Do you think it was the same person who the bubblegum? It's gross. Anyway. Welcome to the show. My name is Mick Sullivan, and this is the past and the curious. This episode is about Davinci and about a painting the DAVINCI painted. But another man stole. It's a fun show I'm really excited about it i. have some thank Yous I need to thank Lonnie powers from book power for kids. She played the role of a kind of F. trinket sort of character. If you've ever seen the hunger games and I'm also excited to welcome back at much request. I get a lot of requests to bring back Dr the Palaiseau professor. But I can't have him on very often because it's kind of hard to do. You know what I'm saying but he's here today if you don't know what Pailin domes mean well, I'll tell you before we get started. Anyway let's start the for story. To. The Renaissance, Oh Italy, how you have suffered through the darkness of the Middle Ages, and now here we are standing on the cusp of a new era where we will turn our minds to nature. Humans, and the world striving to understand how it all works, congratulations to us all. We've made it. This speech is not even remotely real though it was very well delivered. Thank you very much money, but it is easy to mistake this sentiment as something that people at the time might have actually felt. Most likely no one at the time realized that a new era, the renaissance had begun in the year fourteen hundred it's not like a giant switch flipped flooding the so called dark, ages with the bright light of the renaissance like US folks were just living their lives day to day. Most people will probably never even realized that the world was changing in such tremendous ways. It took historians to do that our story centers around Italy which in the early eighteen hundreds became the center of the renaissant. which radiated to the world the term renaissance refers to a time period that brought a new focus on philosophy and the arts sciences, understanding of the world and the mathematics behind it, and also a humans place in it. All like all other times it was also a period filled with wars and conflict because you know people right but it was a period of great advancement and achievement. Some of the greatest the world has ever known. The most famous and probably most important figure from this time and place was a left handed polymath who is unmarried and socially mismatched parents didn't even pay for him to be educated. Luckily for him and for the rest of us, he was really smart and he worked hard to keep getting smarter. No one could argue about his genius, His name was Leonardo Da Vinci. As. A young boy without the means for an Education Leonardo took advantage of the apprentice system in Italy, his natural ability with art and strong grasp of geometry and math, which she somehow learned without ever actually going to school earned him a spot as an apprentice to an artist in Florence named Ferruccio. Broke Yo is a leading painter and sculptor an his workshop near the Arno River Leonardo rose from sweeping the floors and mixing paints to working side by side with his master. It was not uncommon for an apprentice to handle much of the actual painting in a workshop and Leonardo was no different much of the painted onto canvases signed by Rubio was actually put there by Leonardo in fourteen seventy two at only twenty years of age Davinci officially became a master himself. This meant he could accept commissions for his own work which he did this how you made money. But he also found patronage or support from powerful political leaders. He moved to Milan to work under the Duke of Milan a man named sports. He originally got sports as attention by making him a lute from a horse go and silver. Which is pretty Nedal for being honest. This horse had instrument must have worked because sports decided to pay him a bunch of money. For Seventeen years in Milan, he made statues designed architectural features, created models and drawings. The even painted the masterpiece the last supper on the wall of the Monastery of Santa Maria. Della GRADS E. In addition to all of this, he was learning about the anatomy of living creatures, including people. Of course, do this he had to dissect cadavers or dead bodies? And to get these, he had to dig them up when no one was looking. Just pretty gross, but people learned a lot from his willingness to get his hands dirty. Honestly he was kind of a Rockstar people wanted to hire him for everything and he honestly left a lot of jobs unfinished because more. We're always coming his way. But when he did finish something, people would rush to see it and flocks like we might do for a concert or a Broadway show today. As. If this wasn't enough he was also designing some of the most incredible technology. The world has ever seen. Remember he was a polymath an expert at many thanks. Most of his designs were never actually built like a helicopter and a tank, a diving suit and a super mega gigantic crossbow. These just existed as detailed drawings in his many notebooks filled with a never ending flow of ideas. Some of his inventions did become real but either way he regularly impressed people with the constant highly detailed ideas that just seem to come to him and dreams but all of the military conflict and strife in Italy eventually changed his life. His rich princely friends Sforza. The Duke of Milan was overthrown. Fellows Sports. Your days are over. Over If it wasn't clear when this happened, Davinci had to ease on down the road looking for a new home phone. Now sorry that didn't really work either nice try though this time he wound up in Venice here in fifteen o two, he got to know, Cesar Borja. The borjas were one of the most powerful families actually probably the most powerful family Italy and not just because they're brother was the pope. They were good people to have as friends to say the least and Davinci was valuable to them for many reasons. Not, the least of which being his abilities with a weapon design. But DAVINCI like war, and he looked for ways to avoid it a situation arose involving the Arno River the Arno ran from Florence through Pisa and then to the sea. Rivers with the lifeblood of cities they allowed people to trade with everyone else along the river easily, but they also met access to the sea and ocean and this meant trade with the world, which was very important for a city like Florence. Unfortunately, pizza was in the way they had recently revolted against Florence which cramp the style of the powerful people there who were counting on open trade routes things headed for the ocean had to get through a I. This was a problem and traditional warfare had gone nowhere for decades and so Davinci. Came up with what he thought was a great. IDEA. You're going to do what? Of. River. Like Moo Cow. I'm going to move that I'm going to change the direction of that river. Moved me a rib bird. Oh, I see now is it still going to be a river though you're not going to like build a dam just flood the forest of would to make it a lake filled with timber right? Do you mean a Timberlake? No. I'm going to change the course of this river with my bare hands or. Actually. The hand of a bunch of laborers. Davinci and another famous man named Machiavelli came up with a plan to dig a new channel through the dry earth which the river would follow instead. They would divert the river so far that the path would travel all the way around Pisa leaving it high and dry. The original river path would be nothing more than a muddy trickle. There would be no water to sustain farms and people no water to trade on and most importantly no way to hold up. Lawrence's plans. They thought it was foolproof. Were they right. They were worse than right. They were wrong. Even a genius left-handed Italian polymath as a few failures. So as soon he left the service of the BORJAS and settled back in his native Florence where he began work in fifteen o three on what would one day become the most famous painting in the world. People. Still argue about it today and there certainly some mystery around it. But most believe it was a commission from a silk merchant named Francesco they'll gio condo the merchant Davinci to paint a portrait of his wife Lisa. By fifteen seven Davinci had yet finish it and even when he did though many believe it remains unfinished still. He never gave it to Francesco. Instead as Da Vinci continued to move around. Italy. He took the painting we know as the Mona Lisa with him. Did he do this because he had grown too attached to it. Because he wasn't satisfied with it and plan to work on it further. We just don't know, but we do know that he took it with him to France. When King Francois, I invited him to live and work there under his patronage. It was in Da Vinci possession when he died in fifteen nineteen, which was a full sixteen years after he was hired to paint. Lisa. Deljo condo. The painting was purchased from Davinci's assistant by that same French king who as an art loving royal had quite a collection of paintings. For years, he hung on the wall of one of his smaller royal homes of which he had several. Is reason to believe he hung it in the bathroom? Beatrice from Philadelphia, you have thirty seconds to tell us something. Awesome. I've already heard it and I know that at awesome. So why don't you tell the rest of the people? Beatrice in my here's Murray Marie Curie was born in Warsaw Poland on November seventh eighteen, sixty seven. She studied at the university and then she began her scientific studies and France. Then she married a man named here carry together they want to know vote prices Savvy Murray died from radiation poison but I know lifetime discovered two new radioactive elements radium and polonium and became the only woman to win two Nobel Prizes. Thank you so much that was awesome. Marie Curie is a fascinating person. I really appreciate you sending that, and if you have a submission for you have thirty seconds, there are instructions on our website. Oh, you really need is a voice recorder on a phone diseases that can't wait to hear what you said. You know I wonder if Davinci ever invented a machine that could tell me what time it is. Birth time. A. All right. Here we go. It's a quiz about Leonardo Da Vinci in the renaissance. So here we go win Napoleon's troops were in Milan in the early eighteen hundreds. What did they do with the giant FRESCO? We know as the last supper, it's multiple choice. Did they eat breakfast under it? Try to paint copies or use it for target practice. If you said they used it as target practice. You are correct though the Mona Lisa belonged to Napoleon at the time and reportedly traveled with him to hang in his commander's tent. His men weren't as interested in Renaissance Art. They used the last supper for target practice and years. Later, it had to be restored due to the damage. Amazingly, it survived the bombings during World War Two. Question number. Two. Two years before Leonardo. Davinci was born Yohannes Gutenberg invented something that would change the world some say it was the most important invention of all time. What was it? It. Was the printing press. Finally, books and pamphlets could be reproduced quickly so that they could be available to everyone before that books had only been available at libraries or universities most were written or copied by hand, which meant that they were very difficult to get your hands on after the printing press was invented more and more people learn to read which allowed them to be exposed to new ideas and ways of thinking, and it was one of the most important aspects of the renaissance. Okay Question Number Three Leonardo Da Vinci wasn't the only great Italian renaissance painter and he wasn't the only one who shared a name with an injury turtle. which other painter slash Ninja turtle namesake was the creator of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Wasn't Raphael and it wasn't Donatello Michelangelo Michelangelo and Leonardo were rivals in real life. So they probably didn't share any pizza. The real. Michelangelo. Spent four years painting the incredible frescoes on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. By the end I, BET, his arms were pretty tight. Maybe, you've seen this before, and if you haven't, that's totally cool. It's very easy to imagine in a gallery of Fine Art Museum. Someone is set up with their Easel, our sketch pad painting drawing stopping regularly to stare deep into the detail of a masterpiece on the wall. Masterpieces are just that masterpieces. They are marvels of detail technique filled with inspiration, and for many they are a unique way to learn to paint. Nothing beats at something in person up close and personal with a critical eye. These art gallery art makers are learning from the masters even if the masters have been dead for centuries. This is precisely what Louis Baru had in mind when he walked into the Louvre on a Tuesday in nineteen eleven. No, he wasn't hoping to take lessons from some Zombie painters. He was going to spend the morning with the painting created and sort of May be finished by Leonardo. Da Vinci four hundred years before in nineteen eleven the Mona Lisa was a pretty normal painting people new Davinci was important but this wasn't believed to be his most important work. For centuries, it had been out of public eye and when it was finally hung on the walls of the Louvre, it was about as exciting to folks as all of the other thousands of paintings that hung on the walls of the twenty six acre building. In the late eighteen hundreds of artists and critics began to realize or simply decided how great it was. But they were the snobby sort to most folks. It was just another portrait of a lady who? May Not be smiling Louis must have been one of these parolees up people because she's exactly who he was there to see. But when he got to the room where the painting usually hung, he found only four nails that once held it onto the wall. She was gone. Now. Yes. Excuse me I came here to see the Davinci in this room but it's gone what Davinci Yes I heard you what painting can't you find the Mona Lisa Dewa. The Mona Lisa. We have no painting called the Mona Lisa yes you do or you did it's The Da Vinci painting. It's a half length portrait of a woman who's Kinda smiling kind of nod and there's some interesting scenes over her shoulder in the distance and what did you call it the Mona Lisa we well, this is France and here we call that painting a Kanda Okay. Well, it appears Lajja. Kanda is missing from your wall. Any idea where it is Doa, Law Asia condo missing where is it? You mean the Mona Lisa's missing. This security guard checked with the photography department they had been working through the collection. So he assumed that the painting was temporarily removed so that photographs could be taken. Was He right He was worse than right. He was way he worse than right he was super duper Ding Dong Mega. Wrong. The Mona Lisa had been stolen. The HOOPLA that followed made the most famous painting in the world, and you could argue that the Mona Lisa never would have been as famous as it is now if Vincenzo Peruse. Hadn't initiated a worldwide search when he stole it on a Monday morning in nineteen eleven. Vincenzo had worked at the loop often on as a contractor for years. In fact, the museum had chosen one hundred paintings including the Mona Lisa. To put behind glass for extra protection and Vincenzo had installed. Many of those glass covers people hated the glass covers because sometimes the light would reflect on the glass and you couldn't actually see the painting that you came to see but instead the mirror image of your own face or someone else near you straining to see the Dang thing in the first place. The criticism didn't hurt Vinnie. He did most of his work on Mondays when the museum was closed. So No, one was around to complain to him. It's not like he could have done anything about it. Anyway. He was just a hired hand a regular guy who moved to France from Italy? Living in a tiny apartment and who is apparently nurturing a quiet. Yet, burning passion for returning Italy's important artworks back to Italy. He knew all too well that the move would be closed on Mondays. So one Sunday night instead of going home afterward, he and two accomplices snuck into a broom closet and spent the night with the cleaning supplies. When the morning came, they did their stretches put on work clothes and a smock with identify them as maintenance workers. Making a beeline for Lisa, they pulled her off of the wall and quickly headed for the door. Stairwell. They removed the centuries old frame and carelessly tossed it aside. DAVINCI painted the Mona Lisa on wood. So it was impossible to roll up which is a good thing for the art world. So vinnie hid the inflexible rectangle under his smock the only surprise person he ran into must have been incredibly lacking in the Observation Department or else didn't care because the painting is two and a half feet tall and nearly two feet wide there is no wave and Shinzo didn't look suspicious especially for someone leaving an art museum that Dude didn't say a word. It's hard to know what mention does plan was later he said he didn't really even have one other than to return the painting Davinci's native country Italy. But many believed that he and the others wanted to either sell it. Or have someone create copies and then pass those off as the original to several unwitting and lawless collectors who were okay with having stolen art in their collections. Apparently those people exist and that's totally lame. It took officials at the museum twenty six hours to figure out that the painting was gone and when they did they searched high and low. It was nowhere in the building. Of course, there were suspects. Other people had stolen things from them in the past and they checked with them. But none of those investigations uncovered the slightest shred of evidence on the winner about of the Mona Lisa. Police even brought the famous painter. Pablo Picasso in for questioning. The accusations made him blue for a period but they explained that they had to look at the crime from all possible angles at what's which he of course understood. Once the international press learned about the highest. The story was everywhere the New York. Times was astounded. Someone could walk out of a museum in the heart of a bustling city with a large renaissance portrait and the more people heard about it. The more the painting was planted in their imagination not many people in North or South. America had seen the Mona Lisa. Most Europeans hadn't even seen it but the case and the amount of money tied to the painting was in every newspaper around the globe. So now everyone knew about the Mona Lisa. All of this attention made it really difficult for Vincenzo to do anything with the pilfered painting. So he stuck it inside a trunk in his tiny apartment. Right next to the stove. Put some socks and underwear on top of it, and there it stayed for a couple of years to the world. It was just gone and the authorities slowly began to lose hope. Until one day, an art dealer in Florence got a letter from someone who claimed to have the Mona Lisa. This person wanted to sell it and to see that it would wind up back in Italy. Yes. Sure. Okay. Buddy. He probably wrote back I'm going to need to see it before I can give you a price. The Art dealer assumed that the letter came from someone who actually just had a copy of the DAVINCI. But Ju just in case he called the curator at the nearby Art Museum. Vincenzo Robak. Sure. Come on up to Paris. I'll show you the painting I, keep it with my underwear. nope. Coming up there to see your underwear, you come on down here and you can bring Lisa. Then, he was hoping for that cash payment. So he brought the painting and the art dealer brought his curators friend. And the police. Vincenzo was arrested and for his crime of stealing what became the most being this painting in the world he served. Seven months in prison. You later served in the Italian army during World War One and died in relative obscurity. The Mona. Lisa on the other hand was displayed in Italy to enormous crowds many of whom had probably never even heard of it until the heist. It returned to Paris on the penultimate day of nineteen thirteen, and since then it has been the most popular painting balloon. which is arguably the finest. Museum in the world. Okay you all be cool because it's time for Dr. Awkward. Now, here's the thing about Dr Awkward. Everything he says is a pal android that means it is spelt the exact same way forward as it is backwards. It's pretty crazy I don't understand why he does that. Anyway. Here goes nothing. It's stuck up words the Landreau broke. It's doctor. Pal Gross. It's Dr Awkward. Dr. Rock. Solid Room. Dr Awkward It's great to have you back. Is it. It is. Well I know that everyone has missed you I get requests to have you on all the time. But you have to understand that I can only have you on every. So often for a number of reasons, seven Eve's now it's been way more than seven Eve since you were last here. Hey, anyway, you probably noticed that security has changed around the studio. You'll need to wear this name tag. You're here shall I write Dr Awkward on it for you? Know it's Abe Sebastian. is that right I never knew your full name eight Sebastian Awkward is that what you would like me to call you name now one man. Yes. I'm naming a one man and that man is you. So what should I write on your name tag? Dr Awkward. Yeah. That was my original suggestion. Here you go. Oh No, it doesn't seem to be very sticky. I could get some tape so it'll stay on your jacket. No, tie it on. we'll get a hole punch and then some string and their we kill. Now we brought you on this episode because I understand that you actually witnessed an art heist and this is very exciting to me. I heard some of the details and it seems like you are in the restroom when the heist began, where was the restroom as I P I c Pisa. Oh Pisa Italy very fancy. Yes. There's a lot of great art in that city. Though it's alarming that someone tried to steal some especially from a bathroom. So while you were. In. His bathroom you noticed someone stealing some art is that how it went down elite tile tiles like mosaic not sounds interesting. What was pictured on the tile eve as in Adam and Eve wo say. Wonder what Adam said to her when they first met like when they saw each other for the first time Madam in. Eden I'm Adam. Maybe. Maybe you're right. Yeah. Anyway. What did you do when you saw this art being stolen put Elliott's toilet up. Like a portable toilet, you're borrowing from someone named Elliot you put it away. Okay. Well, did you get a good look at thief mom it was your mom. I can't imagine what was going through your head Amy Must I ju Jitsu Ma? Whose amy more importantly did you Jujitsu? Your mom mom is just as selfless as I am. Well, it doesn't sound very selfless to steal a mosaic of Eve from a bathroom and pizza. Art Name no time emit but one mantra one mantra did you resolve the situation by saying something marge let send a sadness telegram. So your mom is marge and her sadness was reason that she stole this eve from the bathroom and you've got her to confront her sadness by writing someone telegram. What did it say? Mister Owl met my metal work from. That's at Well I. Don't think this is going to work for me won't it? No. Well I was hoping for more action acrobats stab ORCA nurses run our talking stop murder not tonsured rum pots. Tino dump mud on it. Yeah. That's the stuff. Slap a ham on Omaha House. All right. That's enough. Thanks. I think we can unquestionably call this your most successful visit to the show ever. But that's not saying much. Is it? Awkward. It's Dr. off. Salad. Well for those of you who like Dr Awkward you're welcome for those of you who hoped you'd never hear it again. Sorry I can't do very often though so you know. I have a lot of Patriot people to thank again this month I, appreciate it so much you help me keep going and doing the show. It means a lot. So if anyone else is interested there are links to our patron count on our website the passengers dot com. To simple latest support the show. Without. Further Ado. I need to think. Abraham. Had a nice message from your mom. Vicky Abraham Thank you Abraham. I also need to think Luka had a nice message from your mom Kate and I'm so glad that you are out there. Luca Luca. Thank you. Same Story Really Cool Dad named Phil probably a pretty cool probably cooler actually kid if we're going to be honest right Arthur Arthur thank you very much. Glad you're out there with those ears listening and Moses in a story New York hello. Moses. Thank you much sir. And last but not least will actually ultimate but not. Ultimate. Song after this anyway. There's one more group of kids that I mean I think Bingham and Emma brother and sister. Thank you so much. Bingham, and Emma. So happy to know that you are out there. And last but not least now using that term correctly or appropriately at least for the situation I have a song for an old friend named Chris and. I'M GONNA send it out to her. This is the past and the curious. My name is maxine. You're listening enjoy this little ditty and I'll talk to you in the future next month. This Chris Chris Chris Chris Chris. Is Grizzlies. Also Chris. Chris Chris. I remember on. And you're. Like. Those white shirt. Goose. That was so long. She. Chris Chris Chris Chris Christie. Green. To Thanks everybody stay well.

Mona Lisa Davinci Italy Davinci Mona Lisa Leonardo Da Vinci Florence Milan France Sebastian Awkward Pisa Leonardo Chris Chris Chris Chris Chris Vincenzo Italy Chris Chris Chris Chris Christ BORJAS Mona Lisa Dewa Mick Sullivan
A Tale of Two Movie Stars: Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio | Ringer Dish

Ringer Dish

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

A Tale of Two Movie Stars: Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio | Ringer Dish

"It's summertime and that means it's time to get outside and enjoy the weather with some crisp refreshing bud lights bud light has the perfect summer lineup bud light lime and Bud Light Orange both brewed with real citrus peels new and just in time for summer is bud light lemon not brewed with real lemon peels tea leaves. It's the ideal drink for summer but it's only here for a limited time so get it before. It's gone and to really get you in the summer. Spirit Bud light is giving everyone the chance to win the getaway of a lifetime. You can win two tickets V._I._p.. Cruised to the Bahamas this summer featuring live performance by Jake Owen and of course plenty of Bud light for a chance to win simply post your bud light summertime photos using the hashtags real enough to get away and Hashtag Bud light contest on facebook and instagram see bud I'd like dot com slash real enough to get away for more details and welcome to bring her dish. I'm Amanda Dobbins. I am joined today by Andrew Gritted Arrow and kate nibs Hi guys hey and we're here to talk about movie stars which is really exciting because I love movie stars and it's also because we don't talk about movie stars as much as we used to dish this is a podcast and have podcast feed about celebrities and fame and the history and industry that goes into that and for a long in time movie stars fueled it and in two thousand eighteen not as much you guys Andrew. Why are we here to talk about movie stars? What is the special occasion? I would say it's like the biggest it's a blockbuster four movie stars <hes> <hes> it's called once upon a time in Hollywood I have so is the ringer dot com. Please check care. We have a lot of content about it but tell the people went once upon a time in Hollywood is what's most packers. A lot of dangerous stuff cliff here helps carry the load. I try deeply. The Heroes July twenty six struggle we do we came to playtime is over. I don't beat him. He kills you not when Rick Don's got a shotgun pointing Tarantino I loved that stuff once upon a time in Hollywood July twenty six Quentin Tarantino's latest movie about Hollywood in the sixties around the time of Charles Manson and Leonardo DiCaprio stars in it as a literal movie star and Brad Brad Pitt is also in it as his stuntman and so it's this movie about movie stars starring movie stars its Peak Hollywood. Kate are Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt two of the most. It's important movie stars in your lifetime. I would say learning Caprio is the most important movie star in my life. Pal Brad is one hundred percent leading question like podcast nonsense and you really took it to the next level. Tell let me why I mean because I was eleven or twelve. In the film. Titanic was released I Sai- four or five times in theaters I'M NOT GONNA go in to detail about all that played in my yep awakening as an adult female but it played a role I I had like unauthorized biographies of you know to Capri out. He was just the like teen movie star when I was at a very appreciable yeah I should say that the lineup of this particular particular podcast is intentional and it is who were alive and allowed to see movies theaters when titanic was released because that really was a foundational moment for our generation which I'm going to say mid to old millennial. Do you guys except that is embrace. Okay being in the mid to old bracket with yours. Yes Leonardo DiCaprio a huge kinda generation defining movie The star and then I think alongside that is Brad Pitt. Maybe maybe I'm the old person who's GonNa talk about. How Brad Pitt is like a generation defining movie star but in a way he is and this is what we're GonNa talk about in the podcast kind of their careers ours and also their fame and the archetypes of movie stars that they are but Brad Pitt is someone who probably off scream is the best example of the last twenty years of like a <hes> movie star level of fame and investment in his life while also doing working people don't really care about people in movies as much as they have cared about Brad Pitt in the last twenty years? Would you say that's accurate yeah. I think that's fair and I think on the flip side. The interest in Leo is a little bit different. I mean they're definitely they definitely charted different paths in their personal lives fair to say like the the investment and Brad Pitt as as a celebrity is so tied up in his extremely high profile Romances with equally high profile female celebrities <hes> and and the brain selena thing and everything everything with Jennifer Aniston that came before and then before that you know he was dating one of Paltrow he was out there like he has he ever dated a non famous person not to my knowledge so people have always been sort of drawn to to him in in that way in a way like since Leo has basically planted his flag in the just dating in anonymous rotating cast of young models he hasn't really <hes> yeah seems purpose to strategy eighty and it's interesting I wanna go through all of this and we're just GonNa go through kind of the phases of their career and examine the choices that they made onscreen and often kind of how it adds to the legend of both these celebrities but everything you just said is exactly right and it's all things that happened not in a movie and that for longtime was our definition of what a movie star is which is someone who could hold your attention both on screen and offscreen. It was someone that you would we'd go see you would go see movie because that person was in it right. You'd be like Oh. Tom Hanks's in movie. I'll go see it but there was always this added element of part of the reason you would go see it is because you were invested in that person right and total investment what they were doing outside of the movie movie and part of the reason once upon a time in Hollywood and these guys being a movie so excited because we don't really have movie stars like that anymore. It's not something that happens that often in two thousand nineteen Andrew Why is I guess it's a few things one like just cultures so fractured right now that everyone has their own people and there's not sort of these monolithic people at the front of at the front of pop culture. I think you know people get famous in different ways now. It's not sort of this like mythological uprising where suddenly Leonardo DiCaprio's the the the face on the screen. It's sort of like little Naza Exxon Tick Tock and then suddenly everywhere so it's it's just like this different format now and at least for our generation generation it doesn't have the same pull whereas someone coming up from sort of viral fain. Is this this amorphous thing that sort of hard to latch onto yeah I think is also that movies are a bit different in new rule that movies plan are in pop. Culture is a bit different. You know we have a whole podcast the big picture that is like now devoted to fetching about how people don't go to the movies literally every week it's just me and Sean big like Oh my God and then people didn't go to the movies which makes sense when you look at netflixing you understand that how we watch things is very different and also they make movies so now the big movie events are kind of I._P.. Driven you're going to see Superman or Spiderman Spiderman or a Batman or the Lion King. You're going for the recognition of the franchise itself as opposed to the people in it and you know. I don't WanNa be to absolutist about that because like Tom Holland is the new spiderman men and I think he's like very very famous and he's very famous because he's been in a lot of movies but even if you were to compare Tom Holland in two thousand eighteen to Leonardo DiCaprio in nineteen ninety eight. It's slightly a different. I think there's a lot more he's famous because he spiderman you know and we heard a cap heroes famous because he's Leonardo DiCaprio or he was which is a great segue into. Let's let's just go back to nineteen ninety eight. Let's go to we're going to examine the breakthroughs of both Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt and talk about how they became famous which is similar to have you components now and also really really different and Kate I just I'd like to ask you about Leo in the late nineties. I feel free to be as personal and it's frank as you would like to be. I will hundred <hes>. What do you WanNa know 'cause? I know I know a lot about Leo's back story. Yeah we more then I should. We all know if you don't know he started out in television. Actually he was a like sort of recurring star in later season growing pants. I didn't actually watch that I I think that was a little that wasn't when he came into my <hes> like world but then he starred in what's eating Gilbert grape and he and <hes> this boy's life. Is that what it was called the one where Robert Deniro is really mean him yes so and both of those roles those were like really meaty character role so he established himself really early on is like the next sort of intelligent character actor before he sort of the people realize that he was the next big hearthrob right like his acting Bona Fides were well established as also very young at that point yeah. He was like thirteen or something like yeah like he was. He was a kid he started just growing. He was very baby-faced. P P started appearing a lot of teen magazines his public persona actually sort of surged ahead of his his like acting roles as a heartthrob when he finally started in Romeo and Juliet people were very excited added about him and then by the time titanic came out he was really before the movie was even released. He was already like America's hot young part up as rose. You'RE GONNA GET OUTTA here. You're going to go on and you're GONNA make lots of babies. Watch him grow. You're GONNA die an old old lady warm in her bed. I'm a little bit older in U._k.. But I still a teenager in this era and I remember Romeo and Juliet wrecked by Baas Lerman also starting Claire Danes was like all the teenage girls new you know like the this scene with him looking declared through the fish tank and you're just like Oh. That's my guy. There's a lot of that you know those photos were in lockers and once he had the teen crowd I felt that built the anticipation for botanic and so so a lot of people did go see titanic because of Leonardo Dicaprio I certainly did yeah is it fair say that this is like the peak of like Tiger beat. Yes totally thirteen there. There were so many different kinds of magazines of that nature where there is like a literal Palau centerfold teen boy and I feel like every other magazine was like Leonardo DiCaprio Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Maybe throw Devon Sawa one. There is a week solid devin. Sala is on twitter being great acting wonderful. I you love to see it thirty years twenty years later he's he's finding his way but yes leo was at the forefront of that and obviously titanic was just a total sensation and made a ton of money and won Oscars and was a technical feet at the time though if you're watching now that boat look so fake but whatever don't tell Jim Cameron really does I mean I guess like we've achieved a lot in twenty years. We should feel proud of ourselves. I still get spooked when that guy hits the propeller. That's tough that's it hurts yeah but apart of titanic sensation and success was that the people went to see it over and over and over again in theaters and I don't have the data on this but I can tell you anecdotally that is a hundred percent team girls going to see Leonardo Dicaprio over and over and over again and I know because I knew you all of them Kate. How many times did you see in theaters four okay yeah? That's like average that but answer that seems like a very normal if you're under the age of eighteen seems like a normal amount five times to have seen titanic in theaters. What else are you going to do? I didn't even like I have cable. It was either watch reruns of nine hundred one O or look at my book read books. <music> go to the actual movie theater. You mentioned like the unauthorized biography Leonardo DiCaprio but that's true before the Internet. They just had to publish weird books. You couldn't go look at families. I definitely I. I don't know if I had that my friend Katie who will be listening to this has a full collection. I went to her house like ten years ago and her mother had preserved it and we're talking like ten books about McCaffrey. Oh I have a V._H._S. tape sitting on my desk as an unauthorized of Leo but I found it in my fiance's like basement and like I need to bring this home and I've yet to actually see it. 'cause nobody I know owns owns for all the young people listening to this it. It was really real in the late nineties to work in order to have an internet boyfriend you actually you had to perch to pay money and you had to use several different types of technology including books and V._H._S. and I distinctly remember so I mean the Internet did exist at this point but it was very it was dial up. It was slow. I would go into my dad's office in Chicago because he she had better Internet than we did at my house so that I can look at like fan pages like <hes> the Geo Metro fan pages and and it was I would take a train. It was really much in Seoul. Did you ever print them out kate. Yes yes I did because we also used to like. Put Our hands on the copy copy machine and stuff near the ninety s oh good so fast. This is very weird but one time I actually copied the Leonardo DiCaprio unauthorized whereas biography at my dad's work like pictures of it and then headed around because I like wanted to make sure everyone knew about so I was in I was in I think I think that's a really great encapsulation of where Leonardo Leonardo DiCaprio was circuit titanic because it is it's a very different type of fame from say Brad Pitt's level of fame and I I wanNA talk briefly about it and you. We were all a little young for this. I think that I kinda Brad Pitt has always been a movie star in my consciousness which is just kind of interesting way to think about it but he obviously his big breakthrough was thelma and Louise where he's playing like a similar heartthrob role but it's kind of like yeah full grown man heartthrob. You know this is for adults. It doesn't have that Tiger beat aspect to it as which direction your head and try and get back school Murad fell through stuck here extinct on stinks so I was thinking you're going my way on your way. I think we're going to Oklahoma City not sure yeah well Dr appreciate it much and that's an eighteen ninety one and then Brad Pitt is just like the really hot grown men guy in movies for I mean I would say for four decades but that's a different conversation but it's it's interesting because you you know that's a ninety one and he spends the ninety s just like being in great movies that you would go see and Leo breaks through in a teen way and then is clearly really uncomfortable with it and spend a lot of time trying to avoid avoid it or trying to reinvent himself. At least that was my interpretation of it. I always felt that wasn't the most grateful of our appreciation kate. Did you ever feel that well. I just I found this website recently. Yes that collects all live these different nineties interviews Leo I shared it with you guys and rereading the interviews is really wild because it was so apparent how bewildered and not enthusiastic about his heart Bob staticy was and he seemed kind of panicked act. You know he grew up in like this hippie household. I think he wanted to be a character actor and then found himself sort of thrust in this position and it's quite a position to be in yeah. I don't really blame him to be honest day. Yeah Yeah it's understandable. She was I get the sense that he's always sort of looked to like. Jack Nicholson and Robert Deniro is his as his models of the kind of career that he's wanted and so you know eighteen girls are not putting up posters of Robert Deniro. You know that's true were like were they in the seventies though like with Nicholson and stuff. I don't know I the old for everyone listening. You know especially De Niro always seems like a he came in at the grown man level yeah as a post like when you think of old Timey teenyboppers I think it's a Beatles Beatles right but no I think that's a good comparison that he wanted to be a serious actor and idolize those seventies movie stars and he also seemed his never really warmed back up to titanic which which new story this week when he went to answer the question about about <hes> dine on the bed yes literally not having Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie on camera. You can watch watch that video. We'll share it so yeah. He's there was also a great interview with two caprio Tarantino and Brad Pitt in esquire this year where there's a whole long thing about how Lino Dicaprio's like I've never been in a movie that takes place over the course a couple of days and then Tarantino Movie Nerd is like <hes> Titanic. He's like Oh Leo's like basically trying to pretend like it never happened but you can understand it. A little. It was such a big deal it doesn't than it is more of a crowd pleasing blockbuster than say some of the movies he makes later and I'm sure it was dispiriting in dispiriting but Kinda just overwhelming in terms of the level of fame in the level of attention sukey Sukhi. Would you like to tell us a little bit about how he processed that level of fame and engaged with it yes he formed a sort of protective circle around himself. <hes> inches already laughing. They formed a squad posse. They call themselves the Pussy posse because they were young men who like to go out on the town and mix it up with the ladies and he sort of made these very close friends <hes> <hes> Tobey Maguire of Spiderman fame is probably the most famous but it's also there's quite a few it's like Kevin Connolly <hes> who would later go on to be in a fictional basically version of this on entourage David David Blaine the magician course Lukas Haas Sucato guy actually having a pretty good time like careerwise J._r.. Ferguson best-known Stone Has Stan on Madman. Sara Gilbert was like an sort of have yet they win. I understand it is there are like solid set set members who are like the founding members and then they have have sort of like honorary distinctions and Sara Gilbert is one of those q tip is is so I'm just interject rate here number one. We should say that we are not experts at any of this. This is all according to its very famous piece by Nancy Joe Sales in New York magazine in one thousand nine hundred where she establishes the Pussy Posse and this is the stuff of Hollywood legend so we're making our best guesses but they definitely did roam around Hollywood in the late nineties having a great time and Kate that kind of became Leo's Persona for Awhile Right. Yes I mean it has really I think also currently played into his current persona with romance in that. He's never really had a super serious girlfriend who he seems to respect as an equal he seems to think that we can channel the inner workings of Leo's mind and know about whether he's respecting some people are not what we can say is that aside from dating Giselle which will talk about he does seem to date a certain type of woman who is often younger than him and he has never been married and he's mostly seen with these girlfriends on tropical vacations and doing water sports in having a nice time. The lifespans of said relationships are somewhat short. Yes Oh yeah I mean I should. He probably respects them. They're the current girlfriends agreed actress actually but he doesn't seem to be that commits her name. Let's say her name Camilla marrone rare own great actress. That's good I suspect I do. I like her though <hes> yes so he just he became sort of the king of the Bro the Hollywood Bros.. With the Pussy posse right and he has never really deviated from that and apparently in recent years they've they've reconvened and re-christened themselves the wolf pack which is I suppose more P._C.. Term is it. Isn't that a reference to the hangover whether on purpose or not I guess it's relatively more P._C.. Think this is that's Joanna Hills influence yeah it I mean this is all nine. Hundred Ninety eight was a different time in a lot of ways in Hollywood in Pop Razzi coverage in what people would tell reporters honestly. Can you imagine anyone being like yes. We have a group of friends. They're called the Pussy posse now in two thousand eighteen. I mean I feel like Justin Bieber. Maybe an aware day should make this about but no it's interesting yeah and he does that for I mean he's still doing it but he is kind of his response to titanic is to become the Hollywood party guy and then also just start making a lot of movies with Martin scores as it's quite a run that he and with other directors but he seems to be like now. I'm only doing serious. Movies like gangs of New York the aviator the departed I mean it's really a run and then he serious at work and then has fun on his off time. Yeah we as we all showed great work life balance. Today's episode is brought to you by luminary new podcast subscription service with some of the best content around. 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There's that famous moment when they have them mashing haircuts which was just an all-time great experience for everyone and then daybreak up and then pretty soon he she marries Jennifer Aniston and this is that's. I think that's the late nineties because he's on friends in two thousand or two thousand one because he wants to do nice thing for his wife and they're lovely power couple and and then of course the scandal heard round the world branch Selena which I like. I don't really think that we can underestimate in celebrity terms. How ground shaking branch Selena was in terms of just tabloids because it kind of US weekly reinvented itself and became what it is because it covered Angelina and kind of how we all consume celebrity news changes result our concept of power couples goals and celebrity couples which was definitely you know? The portmanteau was a thing it's still is. I guess even though we've run out of good combinations did branch Alina come before the Ben Affleck Benefactor bene-. For the first one was bandages Benfer as the first one we actually we did it another podcast on a ringer dish `bout benef- her. I did it with Julia and Amelia so you guys check that out but yeah that was the first one and then I think brand Joel Nina is when and it's like two as a trend like center for walks so brutally could fly exactly other better for which I'd forgotten we do this podcast. It's like they were really only together for six months. It was really up and down the whole time and was a mess and and the thing about branch Selena was that you had one marriage breaking up. You had another come together. You had three unbelievably famous people you had the real sexist team jody team Aniston aspects of it which I I say that like I I didn't have opinions wasn't super invested in it which I was like World Hyun where you I was partial to the Aniston of at all now all right. What am I saying? I was sort of seeing an in Angelina. I mean I'm here for the drama. You know we have podcast and it was it was so fascinating for the drama. Obviously I also here for men taking responsibility for their actions so I don't really like Brad Pitt was married to generate just further record and I really like Mr Mrs Smith. I think that's a movie I that's the main thing team Angelina okay. I was hard core Ryan Team Angelina and yes. I am aware this is a harmful framing but whatever I was on team Angelina all these years later I might be teaming. It's tough I went back and reread the Vanity Fair article that Jennifer Aniston Jason did after the divorce it was like finally Jennifer speaks and you know she's in that white shirt. I thank you know on the cover <hes> and she makes the famous comment about missing sensitivity chip that stuff is is is brutal and again is far more candid than I think anyone would be in two thousand eighteen which is fascinating. It's fascinating the accent which we know so much about both of these people and their lives because both the coverage was more interested in them and it somehow is less managed. Even though I think it was super managed at the time it's just I can't imagine Jennifer Aniston sitting on the cover vanity fair and crying to reporter and being like here's what happened in my love life anymore it just it's. It's just doesn't seem like it would happen well. I'm trying to think because it also feels like it's important to note like the mediums through which we got all this stuff. <hes> I'm trying to like Brad Pitt would be in the notes APP Chrissy Teigen in John Legend God forbid separated or something this huge if legend then started dating Cardi B. or whatever like this would all play out on social social media pretty quickly. I feel like yeah and I don't know there's some sort of like mysticism that it's in glossy magazines I think also because this you know since this is technically a podcast about Brad Pitt he would bear a lot more responsibility for what happened in two thousand eighteen. He really did not back in the day it was you know there was the terrible stuff about how they're all these rumors about. How Brad Pitt wanted kids and AH Jennifer Aniston was like quote to focus on her career so she wouldn't which I I can't even believe I repeated that because it's so toxin sexist but that was a part of the conversation at the time and he it really was Jennifer versus Angelina he was just kind of the vehicle for a lot of this and I think kate? I think that would be different. Now I think so to although I do think that one of the reasons why brad got a bit overlooked in the whole thing is because frankly Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston are more interesting celebrities <hes> they hit slander and I I know I'm sorry that he was responsible for you to tango but like Joe don't come to my house and say that about Brad Pitt responsible but he and I'm not knocking his acting or charisma but I don't know if I was going to have dinner with anyone in out of those three people he would be last on the list. Wow Oh I got to be honest. I'm sorry what's your ranking for Derek. I think it's Angelina not know Brad Angelina. It's tough to mind as we can couches. The whole time about the couch. Couches are embiid with like to talk about architecture with Brett I became I think you so charming. I think that that's such an essential part of his appeal. Oh and I think that's part of why he's a great actor and part of why he's been a celebrity for so long as I just find him so he lights up he has charisma. It's like paddle. You mean to him yeah well. I was about to being limited to Capri because I don't feel that he has the same charisma I think you put your your finger on it when you said he wanted to be a character actor and he's been trying to get back to that character actor situation his whole life unlike and maybe honestly he has with once upon a time in Hollywood and I'm interested in the glamour. I'm interested in the charm. This is a podcast about movie stars. I feel like that is what's appealing about Brad Pitt but you don't pick up on that no no I do. I feel like I was slandering bread a little heat. It's not that he's not charismatic entrusting. I just think that Angelina seems like such a character. I actually would WANNA have dinner with her because I think it would be just a spectacle not because I think she you're doing this for journalism and now for personal enjoy that well for her Aniston. I think would would actually be the most fun to hang out with and Brad just sort of in the middle so it's not I don't coming to slay Brad. I just find both of those women to be very very interesting in him to be pretty interesting yeah in terms of having things to share information that I'm interested in I would guess re with you but in terms of experience experience I wanNA hang out with Brad Pitt which you know is. Maybe a great summary for the different ways that we respond to celebrity. I think you what's interesting is also at this moment careerwise. This is the oceans era and he's doing oceans. He's doing troy. He's does Mrs Smith and obviously that's where he meets Angelina Jolie but he's Kinda coasting on the Brad Pitt charm as well and that is that's both his movie star. That's like his career persona and he's getting away with a lot lot offscreen as we've learned and it's funny how the Brand Jelena's thing affects his career because after it he starts getting he starts getting pretty weird and there's like you know there's the legends of the fall and then fight club Brad Pitt then there's oceans Brad Pitt and then there's like the assassination of Jesse James Effort after reading and inglorious bastards and like tree of Life Brad Pitt where he's experimenting and doing things that he thinks are interesting is what it seems like but it does seem like all of the very public celebrity like the intense Brandolini of it all I mean they couldn't go anywhere for I mean a decade really but especially like in the mid to thousands of so intense and he was so famous that he seems to have responded to it by being like well. I don't have to do movie star roles anymore and it's just interesting to me how the offscreen green stuff can really affect the choices that people make in their careers because I think it was true of Leo a titanic and it Kinda the you know the Brad Pitt as an actor as we know him now is I think really different from Mr Mrs Smith Arab Andrew. Do you disagree no. I think you're I think you're right. I think it's also interesting to look at Angelenos filmography alongside Brad's because they kind of coincide in the way that they get a little more are serious and take on things that are quote unquote more and more important just like she has like changeling and a mighty Har- and in the land of blood and honey right didn't she direct one of those to like I feel like this landon in a blood and honey yeah when we were they were buckling down and trying to make a difference in the world <unk> being celebs yeah okay so this is probably a bad takeaway morally but could stop it so like the horrors of `Paparazzi and overwhelming fame really made Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt's career is better and more interesting Jhangvi. The lesson here is that the Paparazzi are good yeah. That's I mean here arts not for life I arts. I think one thing that's important to know. I think what you said about fame making them. Both make interesting decisions. Nations is definitely true. I think a little bit of that is that they're just like to classically handsome white guys in in an area where in a in a time in Hollywood where that just met you do whatever you want it and there were just more roles for for them. There's also the thing of once you get really famous than you can. Start doing the things that you want to do so I guess in that sense. The PAPARAZZI helped I again. This is a podcast that is in large part built around things from Paparazzi photos so I can't pretend to be above and I think that I just I'm reluctant to should be like it's objectively good. How about that? I'm a fair I'm just saying it's good for me as a viewer. It's obviously don't you think is that still true. Do People get really famous now and then they do the interesting stuff like Chris Evans. How are we feeling about his career post Captain America I? I don't know that he's making the right rate decisions but he's certainly trying to be more serious. He's necessarily my guy when I think about that. I think about Shiloh buff who I really liked in American honey who I think is a good actor and who sort of transitioned from child stardom and like the transformer transformer series into this sort of mode yeah show has had some ups and downs though shy is also a real example of the ways in which the Paparazzi can I know undermine yeah and that sort of thing that it is remarkable marketable that some that Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt have for the most part of voided the pitfalls though I guess you know we just talked a lot about their peak movies are seven. We should talk about kind of the Post Nice to movies star phase which they're both kind of in right now I mean they're they're Leonardo DiCaprio Brad Pitt there two of our generations greatest movie stars but they have been a little bit more in the margins the last few years which is why once upon monetize Hollywood is such an occasion for us and they have for different reasons obviously Brad Pitt Angelina Jolie split up and that was ugly and then he did an interview with G. Q. Talking about how he was in place and his struggle with substances absences and he's kind of he's worked through that and seems to be on the other side of it which is great and in a lot of ways I I wouldn't call it a comeback. I don't think you can have a comeback. If you're Brad Pitt 'cause you're so famous famous but narrative speaking it was this is an up point after a few down years. Is that fair to say Andrew Yeah I mean he went through some like real life shit. We're it was the stories coming out where the the fight on the plane and there's a literal F._B._i.. Investigation about his parenting like that's that's real real life stuff. That's not just like a celebrity is making news so he and he did kind of receipt a little bit. You know he had allied. I think was the movie that's a really tough one Marion Cotillard courtyard yeah yeah yeah and I and I think that's the worst performance I've ever seen. Now I do and I like as a fan of his in you know you can I think that came two months came out two months after the plane incident and his the announcement of divorced so you you know it's on their messed up stuff around that where it's like oh they must have gotten divorced because he in Marianne courtyard or dating. I remember that race so it was like this is literal literal <hes> dark period and ends at least as a as an actor and as a celebrity kate when we were preparing for this you pointed out he has been really successful producer yeah and I think he definitely deserves credit for that like plan. B. Is doing some amazing work and yeah May and maybe he wants to be transitioning into a behind the scenes role more like maybe he is just only GonNa be in a movie once every five years from here now. I don't know so he does deserve credit for that but yeah fifty five years old. He looks amazing amazing my guys fifty five. I've never seen a fifty five year old like in the history of time. It looks like this and you know in Leonardo. DiCaprio is a bit younger but it's still he's forty four bit younger. That's so rude. Is Up he's younger. We'll brad look so good that they basically look like yeah temporary right yeah they put their reaching the age where you're not automatically leading man in the conventional romantic sense ads which doesn't really matter because no one makes this movies anymore but that sense of the stories about you. It's not always the case so you're right that they have to you know they're figuring out different things. It's it's interesting to compare Brad's last three or four years to Leo's last three or four years Andrew. How would you describe Leo's last five years <hes> well so at the beginning beginning of this period we have him finally winning in Oscar and sort of like bringing a close to this period of like desperately? Oh I think like screams. Internally is one of the better memes ever made. That's just does face at a Golden Globes I think after not winning an award and it's just sort of closed mouth smirking so he he wins he finally wins in Oscar. It's like a huge triumph for him. You can tell that it's a big deal for him. I like the most Boring Oscars Digest yes. It's terrible and sorry kate. It's time with them remnant. Yeah I hate that movie. No I'd I even the movie I know I cared about Leonardo DiCaprio's Oscar speech after like twenty years of why don't they give Leo an Oscar he's one of our greatest actors and it was the most boring speech ever seen but there is this. There's like a video you could probably go and find it of him standing there while they edge his name into the trophy and he's just like he's kind of like a kid. I don't know he just like you could feel how badly he personally needed the award. I'm happy for him. I wish she got it for movie. I liked but I'm happy for him after after that though it's like a weird lull in like a dark period where he's not doing doing that much. He's sort of like he's dived into environmentalism. I mean let's like really going for that like all right. He's got a whole nonprofit. Honestly the the environment needs help thank you Leonardo Dicaprio and the only thing about it is that I mean it is like the greatest crisis facing our generation jokes so I appreciate it but he it's so boring he still has made this really dire dire situation and like really ernest work ah dedicated to it just seem really boring so boring about it he had this has been a pretty good time for Leo memes well. That's that's what I was leading to. The fact that there is an actual Leo content on the screen has now led to the fact that he's literally a like. I think there's a whole cottage industry of Leo memes just based on Instagram or not in Scrim sorry Paparazzi photos where the screams internally thing happened kind of simultaneously with him running around with a squirt gun <hes> which is one of the better `Paparazzi photos. I've raising is that contemporaneous with Joanna Hill Him yeah like Joan with phone. The black as there are no now okay. That's like that's I think this is like the peak of like Summer Leo Yes Summer Leo so inspirational where she hot boys he's riding around on city bikes like every day and Yang photographed on city bikes like blowing huge smoke clouds of vape deep into like Battery Park. Yeah I was GonNa say that the defining image of Leonardo DiCaprio in the last five years to me. It's just water sports yeah. It's either him with that. Little jetpack thing that you go to water or on a boat coach or it's just Leo having a great time in the water. which is you know jam sessions number one interest when I see when I see that photo of him writing that jetpack I think that is what a celebrity doing that to me? He has reached sched the goal. That is what you should do if you're that famous ride a frigging water jet pack. I wish I was doing that right now. Yeah Andrew to your point of him. Idolizing Kinda seventies people you mentioned Jack Nicholson and it does Kinda seem like it's that's the model he's like basically he has both Jack Nicholson at Lakers games and you know living a great life which is what Jack Nicholson does but he's also basically Jack Nicholson character from something's gotTa give that's the Msci Myers Movie Rada Data. Which I you know I think someone will write a play about him in his seventies? I hope yeah he it's true he's just he's made it through the celebrity wilderness and now just gets to have a nice time and make movies movies like once upon a time in Hollywood which it seems that I'm really excited about. It's interesting like the madness of this movie that they're both comment to you know this movie is about Hollywood and a lot of we haven't seen it yet by the way I should say that but our understanding of it is that it's about Hollywood fifty years ago and events that happened then but as always with Quentin Tarantino movie is commenting on how we connect to the movies and how we can actually the fame and so it's it's interesting what they're both at a place where they're actually willing to participate in that. I wouldn't have said that either of them is really the most self reflective of celebrities Kate you disagree. No I think I agree honestly. It's hard had to say I feel like I actually don't know it. Leonardo DiCaprio's personality is like at all and yet your favorite celebrity because of that because he's like the cipher that I can project all the serpent King I you think since since that Leo Principal City the Nancy Joe sales piece there's kind of Ben like a huge course correction for him where he's he cemented the people around him and then like I'm going to be close with eight people. I'm going to be close with my mom close with my dad and I'm not going to really give anyone else anything in NYC. He'll do an interview but you'll read it and you'll be like I don't. I'm not any closer to knowing this guy. No like the big rumor about him is about how distant he is in in romantic relationships. That's that's really what Hudson let's. Let's keep it classy. We've got to classy. That's far if you'd like to for jams. I shouldn't Leonardo Dicaprio a romantic rumors. I'm sure you'll find it. Yes this is a key. I'm interested the same more of why that appeals to you because he's a safer because is that more does that appeal to you more than actress celebrity as boasts. I like as a celebrity. It feels different now because we're in this age where the younger stars are so available on social media and are always trying to deliver this narrative to their fans about who they are and he just seems really interested in doing that and way more interested in like riding water jet packs I and I I like it and I respect it. I hope I never meet him because I don't WanNa know anymore really yeah Andrew. What about you? I Yeah I agree. I think it's it's like he's just like Kate so you don't really we know who he is. So the only updates you get are these like weird public moments where he's kind of like acting a fool and he's also he's also one of the most recognizable movie stars we have and yet he just looks around in cargo shorts newsboy caps and <hes> baseball caps more specifically and it's just it's it's like this incongruous thing that I for some reason can't get enough of and he's more than happy to be photograph like playing beach volleyball. He's willing to play like a very specific celebrity role and then otherwise just have a nice time which I guess Brad Pitt a little less oh given what he's gone through in the last five years but it's the same thing where they neither really has to be out in public that much anymore. They don't really have to give that many interviews except for the ones that they're contractually obligated to give to promote movies vs but they were just they were so famous for so long kind of have held on as movie stars that now they just really get to enjoy it and it's fine it. It seems reasonably nice for them and it's nice for us as well. There's a lot of work going going into it either them or as as people who are interested in them which is nice yeah there. I mean they're they're now like hanging out with their friends. Yeah make movies that would be great. That's a goal for all of us. Here's my last question for you guys. Is there an equivalent to these guys to Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio today either Kinda in the in their early fame mold like who is there someone here like Oh. That's the next Leo or it. Is there someone who is kind of doing the same thing famous or are they Kinda Chew Very Special Unique snowflake movie stars. I I was trying to think of off like a comparison and I'd just like can't like you brought up. Tom Hall and earlier <hes> and I guess in terms of like age and level of fame. He fits but he doesn't have this sort of like mystique. Speak and part of that is the fact that he looks like he's still looks like a boy. He's a Tobey Maguire guys know she determined Maguire but he's a Tobey Maguire. He's like growing pains Leo at this point to saying that because of it <hes> the Spiderman yes that Spiderman movies. Have you watched anytime hollins content. I'm a he's he's. I've literally never seen him in a movie. I barely know who he is. He's he's really charming gate but he is also it to Andrews point kind of playing along a little more than like part of being spiderman and part of being famous now is is doing the public act in a way that I don't think Leo or Brad ever had to do and in fact shunned in a lot of ways yeah and all the like if you look up the highest grossing actors from Twenty Nineteen they're all people in Superhero movies and they're all people who have to do this promo that definitely takes away some sort of <hes> edge. I guess what about Shallow May Timothy Shall I mean he does have that sort of hurt. throb thing that we owe had when Leo was really Lanky like the Pre Titanic Leo feels it. Ladybird Lady Bird felt like some Real Romeo and Juliet to me of people being like Oh this guy and he's playing a certain type of a teen that you know and then he's just going to be in forty five really great he he he likes Frank Ocean as much as Brad Pitt. I think shallow may is hard though because he doesn't have that roguishness I feel like Shell mate is. He seems like such a sweetheart yet but your kids now want roguishness freshness. I don't know I mean that's another. It's like I don't know whether the same qualities apply I feel like earnestness is actually working in his favor yeah but not in the same way that it's not it's just different. You know it's true and it's also like I I think Timothy is going to be in little women which is Greta Gerwig new movie and Etretat think we'll do like actually really well now. He's also going to be in Dune which a lot of people young people that we work with care about. I don't like he's he's in a lot of big deal movies but none of those we're going to be as big as titanic and to Andrew. I think you said at the beginning of the podcast this idea that some of it is just like we don't have the same mass market cultural products so you can't really get a Leo or a Brad Pitt anymore is also just like in terms of Timothy Xiaomei like Leo and I think to a larger extent Brad Pitt sort of had this. It's like Paul Newman thing or Robert Redford thing going on and Timothy Xiaomei just doesn't just like by the way he looks and but by the way he's literally shaped. He's got a jazz name. Okay Wow how China's name what are you doing. That's all right but he looks. I don't know there's something I just think that the he's never he's not a honk. He's not going to be a hunk. He's always going to be a lot of people. Oh said that about Leonardo DiCaprio in nineteen ninety six. I'm going to be honest with you then he filled out. Maybe the next generation <unk> fill out to you. I think I think what we're trying to say here. Brad Brad Pitt Leonardo DiCaprio twice in a lifetime stars yeah they might be the last of their kind. I think they are yeah. Yeah which I think is what this movie is a little bit of Bam well. We'll see we'll find out I like. I really depressed now because I want more Brad Pitt's in my life and Leo's but primarily Brad Pitt. It's being really really honest all right. We will find out guys. This has been great Kate Andrew. Thank you for joining us. Thank you everyone for listening. We will be back with jam session.

Brad Brad Pitt Leonardo DiCaprio Kate Andrew Leo Brad Pitt Hollywood Brad Brad Brad Pitt Leonardo DiCapr Jennifer Aniston Brad Angelina Quentin Tarantino Capri Mr Mrs Smith Robert Deniro Jack Nicholson Tobey Maguire New York Tom Hanks Gwyneth paltrow Oscar
The Time Travelers Technology | S1E2

Searching for Salai

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

The Time Travelers Technology | S1E2

"Sally I want to rest no more Wars no more War I Surrender Palm. These words were written by Leonardo DaVinci in obvious frustration about his longtime pupil Gian Giacomo carotid artery. No better known as Sally born in 1582 a peasant family outside of Milan. He came to live with Leonardo at the age of ten for twenty-five years. He lived with Leonardo as his student and his assistant he traveled with him. He helped him with chores daily tasks. He modeled for him on occasion and he learned how to paint. Although he never received the same a claim as his master. There are several paintings in existence attributed to him under the name of the most famous being a nude version of the Mona Lisa called The Mona Vanna Leonardo took on many students over the course of his life somewhere with him for only short periods of time others like Francesco melzi were students for years, but none of them stayed with Leonardo for as long as Sally some historians claim their relationship with sexual others think it was more familiar. Feel something like Father and Son regardless their bond was Stronger Than Just Master and student. They were Companions and Leonardo cared for him a great deal. Leonardo mentioned his personal life and his notebooks but Sally was mentioned dozens of times often with an air of amusement and affection. Sally was once described as a graceful and beautiful used with curly hair in which Leonardo greatly delighted greatly delighted. I haven't met Leonardo for most of my life. I've had countless imaginary conversations with him in my head the thought of being His companion having his ear maybe even his affection is certainly appealing but as far as my imagination goes, it stops short of actually claiming to be satellite. Perhaps for Jack Finney the art historian who says he can travel through time. The thought of greatly delighting Leonardo is too exciting not to get lost in I can understand that. But even if he might know a great deal about Leonardo da Vinci and although he does have dark curly hair. And yes, I do admit he can in some ways be quite attractive. That's a long way off from actually being Andre SLE. My name is Charlotte Warburton and this is searching for Sally took off approaching Jack after the lecture. I wasn't sure what to expect with all the smiles and Winks. He was giving me while claiming to be a 15th century. Traveler I had convinced myself that this was all a joke that he got bored with his job and decided to have a little fun. Excuse me. Hi. Yeah. Could I ask you a few questions? My name is Charlotte am now going to love that. Yeah. Yes. Of course. That was fun. Was it? Oh what alienating everyone in the room? You have a good with I did not alienate you did. I thought no no good. I guess it was yeah does so do I call you jack orselli, whatever you like? Okay, so you're sticking with the story, huh? It's not true. Story is my life. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. This is the kind of subject I had dreamed about I told them about my podcast and asked him for an interview. So, who do you interview every month? I mean different interesting people if you have a fascinating job or unique perspective, you might be a good subject. So it's not because you think I'm crazy. No, no, of course not it's because you're interesting I've interviewee. Marvel workers account accountants. Okay, I guess that one and so interesting. Look it's a hobby really but this this is what you are meant to do. Yes. No, I'm actually an artist a painter. I'm a I work in an office but it's hard to make it in the art World know it's not hard. Oh, no, I guess you should tell them to the galleries who turned me down by. Yes. Maybe I think you should because maybe maybe it's the paint. Yes. It's just not your medium. I believe I'm the one who's supposed to be doing this interview. Okay? Okay. Sorry, but that was never the case with Jack the interview went both ways. There was always a give and take off or not saying it bothered me. I found Jack quite easy to talk to he was Mormon comfortable. We talked just the two of us right outside the auditorium for nearly an hour after a while. I began to play along asking him questions about satellite. He told me about Sally's father a poor Vineyard worker with little options to support his family. He told me about the works of art he made the difficulties he had with the blue paint in home. Of Christ, I wanted to use much more but it was very expensive that the true blue it my time. It was more expensive than gold. I asked him to tell me the places. He had lived and traveled with Leonardo last place. I was with him was in France. It was fifteen eighteen. I had I had left him at the Chateau. Dukla loosen ambroeus where Leonardo died. Oh, I mean you did know that of course for a rare moment. Jack is silent a heaviness ways over him when I talked about Leonardo's death. It's enough to make me rethink how I'm talking to him. It's not that it convinces me that Jack is who he says he is but it's enough to shift me fully into his game. I stopped interviewing Jack and I asked Sally what type of relationship he had with Leonardo close. Were you lovers people today? They put so much emphasis on who you are how you are perceived Leonardo and page it cannot be defined by today's standards. It's what you call complicated. It's complicated I get it. Yes, but we loved each other very much. Jack tells me that he thinks about Leonardo a lot especially coming to this time and seeing how much he's influenced us. He tells me that he has been thinking about him a lot on this trip in particular song. Because he knows that when he left Leonardo was very sick. And with the way my travelling works it is unlikely. I will see him again. I'm sorry. So, can you tell me how it works? Do you travel back and forth? Do you have a time machine or a DeLorean or something? Sorry what it's from a movie what you've seen Top Gun, but you haven't seen Back to the Future. I'm sorry. I have not it's good movie or okay. Okay. Sorry go on. Oh god. Oh, I have a device a device. Yeah, it's kind of vague allows me to create a traversable wormhole that can bring me two different points in time. Well, I guess I'd like to see it at some point if you hear this is it are you off what yes, that's it. That's the device. Jack has just handed me a small black box. It is the size of a cellphone or a hard drive. It feels heavier than it should and it is completely closed with no money Outlet SAR openings anywhere to bite. Yes. This is it. Yes. I always keep it on me put this could be anything. You don't my iPhone is also a hoverboard hover. What? Okay, forget it. No, I'm just Just saying this is a black box. This doesn't prove anything technology is not always what it appears to be. Okay. So how does it work? It's it's also what you say complicated. Yeah, right. Do you have any idea some? Oh, let's see. Everything is connected. Yes, if you say so, okay all things in the universe. They all points in time are one. How do you explain? Okay in your time you do. You know what it is the internet of things. Are you talking about the internet? No, no, no, no not the internet The Internet of Things. It is a network of actual things. Oh, yes. Yes, I o t a network of physical devices that can connect and exchange data using software and sensors. Yes, it's everywhere. I know it's amazing. Yes this device. It works like that. We connects all the things that exchanges data with all the things all at once. So then what you just plug in coordinates no, no, no it learns, you know like log. This machine learning. Uh-huh. You do not know the stern machine learning. No. No, I know what it is. It's a form of artificial intelligence. Exactly. Yes, it allows your device to learn without programming anything in there. My question is how do you know about this aren't you from the Renaissance? Yes, but I am here now all this technology you have what a wonder how long I suppose cell and what else I wonder is why no one contemplates how it works. He's right. I'm no expert but I know as much about technology as the next gal but even with my knowledge, how often do I stop to think about how my Fitbit works or my GPS? How often does anyone Jack certainly did and for seemingly, no other reason than he just wanted to know about Jack was like a sponge for technology. He seemed to have a grasp on everything in our day and maybe some things that aren't quite here yet. He told me that this was his favorite time period that every time he was here he dead. As much as he could he loved to say that technology is moving faster today than it ever has and slower than it ever will. So this device it studies and cream trucks algorithms that can make predictions on data. Okay. And what is this data? We we are the data everything around us is the date wait. So you're saying this works in conjunction with the human element. I I'm saying it works in conjunction with the universe and you don't choose where to go. It just brings you here precisely. So where did this supposed device come from? Leonardo certainly was a prolific inventor, but this was a guy out of his wheelhouse. It is from the future. Of course, Jack claimed that at some point in the future time travel is invented. He said it is a time when we realize all things are connected in a time when technology and man can work together in harmony, even though can you see it? Okay, you are headed for the time when you combine technology data and people you can attain khong Leave transformative and and sustainable Innovation. Jack told me he had been there that the device took him there once just briefly. He said that the future is a golden age where we will use our technology to create a type of utopic society are predictive sensors and software will be able to detect problems before they arise all our civil services will work with maximum efficiency. Everything works in your life. A man these free to pursue learning and art Jack thinks that the device was made during this time and that it was brought to Leonardo by a man with only one name since I hardly another dimension the name vents. I did not know he was the man who gave him the device until years later. But now I am convinced it was him wait. So this device it belonged to long. Did he ever use it you have to understand it does not work with everyone. Jack told me that the universe will only allow certain people to go to certain places. Leonardo is a very important issue. Mankey holds great historical significance. The universe is not like to mess with this but surely he must have tried. I believe he did but don't call me Shirley cross reference from the movie. You get it from the movie Airplane. Wow, you only see movies about flying in my time. We cannot fly. This was something I needed to see so, okay. So Leonardo was he ever able to travel by the time I met him he had no interest in time travel Jack did say that Leonardo told him he was able to use the device just once but it was not something he liked to talk about. I'm not sure where he went. I've often wondered about the two years that Leonardo went missing. Is it possible that instead of roaming the Italian Countryside? He was actually traveling through time. I don't think we were 11:00. So if she was the one who was given the device, how do you have it? Is it not obvious? I stole it as Jack said this I noticed that ride devilish smile creep across his face. The name Sally was a nickname given to Leonardo's Young when he moved in with him and almost immediately started stealing roughly translated. It means little devil selling you was said to have been mischievous stubborn and above all a thief off. Apparently Leonardo kept a running. Tally of the things he had stolen on one occasion. Leonardo was gifted a Turkish hide from which to make a pair of boots, but Sally sold the hide and used the money to buy candy as involved as I had become with Jack's tale of time travel and utopian Futures the mischievous smile on his face reminds me of how implausible this all was. I mean, how could this man be who he claimed? Selling you was a real historical figure. We have a records of where he was at certain points in time. We know his works of art that he made I pressed Jack again about these facts. So you say Thursday is Leonardo in France. Yes, I do not know how long I will be gone in my time. Yeah, but after France selling he goes back to Milan. I mean, that's where he ends up. It is a strange thing to know how you are going to die this time. I'm the one who's silent all of a sudden. I'm back in Jax world as his smile turned serious. My life has been a gradual Venture, but I always know how it ends at some point. I will return to Milan where I will meet Bianca carneiro Lidia. No. No. I hope that I will love her very much because I know I will marry her. I also know that a year after my marriage I will get into an altercation in a bar and be shot with the crossbow shortly after I will die. Searching for Solly is a production of sap and column 5 to uncover more of Charlotte's investigation. Visit searching for saali kahi kham.

Mona Vanna Leonardo Jack Leonardo DaVinci Leonardo da Vinci Sally Jack Finney jack orselli Milan France Andre SLE Francesco melzi Charlotte Warburton Gian Giacomo saali kahi kham Mona Lisa Charlotte Marvel