18 Episode results for "Lenox"
Roundabout Roundup: iPhone SE, what_about_bunny, and Lenox Hill
"Welcome to around five of the parenting roundabout podcasts through the week of June twenty-ninth. I'm Terry Moro, and I'm here with Catherine Khalek O Paulo. And Nicole Eric's are there. Today. We're taking a break from talking and complaining and obsessing and instead shutting out things. Other people are doing that. We think you'll find as useful or enjoyable as we do. We call this our roundabout roundup. So this is my birthday week. My birthday was on Tuesday I. AM sixty one and I am feeling every minute of that age. But. One of the things last year when I turned sixty, I had trouble thinking of something I wanted, and so I did not really get these sort of lavish gift that I feel was appropriate for my sixtieth birthday. So this year I wanted to try and find something and apple helpfully came out with the iphone se shortwhile ago and I said there it is. That's what I'm getting myself. I haven't gotten myself a new IPHONE and a while. I think I have. Five s before this and I had not upgraded for many reasons including the fact that I like a small phone and Abbas been going in the direction of phones that are really just many tablets. My Children Love Them. They keep saying why you have that tiny little iphone. Why don't you have a big one like uh-huh and I'm like I want to put it in my pocket. I am a small person. My pockets are not large. If I got one your size, I would have do. Tang it by a string around my neck. It would not fit in my book. So fortunately, the E. is while not as small is my beloved old five s is not dramatically larger it. Fits in my pocket sticks a little bit out the top, but it. You know if I. Try to walk I. Feel it bouncing against my leg in way that I don't enjoy, but it's not. You know I don't have to get a purse to carry it in in my home, so we got about a week ago so I'm just sort of getting it setup and. Trying to figure it out, but You know I like it. It's nice. It still fits in my hand, my tiny hand, and if so, if you're wondering about it and have not been able to get to a store to actually hold one because of all the covid stuff and are wondering if it's a decent size, yeah, if you like small phone, it is not dramatically large, and it does some things that my old phone would not do, and I'm sure there will be more things coming along that it will do it. Has That haptic touch thing? Do you guys have that on your phone? Where like vibrates when you hit buttons on the screen? I think you can turn on. Its, I don't. It. freaked me out a little bit. But It's also kind of cool so I'm getting used to that. That's something. My old phone didn't have and I am so far quite happy with it and also very happy to have a new toy because I haven't gotten me a notorious Ed white sometime. Well I did not. That's by the way I did. Get new computer in December so. Shut up Jerry. But anyway. Working phone is a little less. Yes utilities providing it's it's so amazing. I. Think we talked about this with computers to how you can now. Make them look exactly like your old one sort of immediately. It just brings all the the same crud over from your old thing. used to be you would start with a fresh slate, and you would have said each thing individually, and now you just put, but the new phone next year, old phone and in fifteen minutes. It's exactly like your old phone with all the same style. Did you probably should have gotten rid of so you know I was I. It's it's been. Worst right into my new device, and I'm using my old devices o'clock, and it works out very nicely clock APP on it, and so now I have A. Nice big digital clock telling me how far behind him and. Nicole! What do you shutting out today? I haven't Instagram McCain Kerr you nichols instagram minute. This one's so cute. I! Don't know what it is about animals lately. I found another dog account. You have to follow it all dogs. What under slash about under such underscore? Underscore. So. What about bunny? B. and Y. cutest dog ever and not only is he super cute, but he's a sheep doodle. conversationalist! Goodness they have trained bunny sheep doodle to communicate with so the owners have trained to communicate using like these. Switch devices so the. Well. You have to check as instagram account out. He has looks like twenty different little kind of devices that he puts his paw on, and it will say a word, and it will indicate what he wants to do so if he wants to go outside, he'll go up to the switch that says. Or you know. The the switch that he knows outside and put his paw on it, and it will say outside, and then the owner lets him outside. cutest thing ever. You know or like he'll go over and. Because, they have different videos of him using it, which is like so cute? Press the button, mom, and then he'll run over to his mom or something like that. It's just it's very sweet and. Quite amazing to see that that they've managed to train him and it looks like. It looks like there's a company. Yeah they're called. Fluent pet HEX. Tiles and buttons. So. That's what they're. The I guess it's a product I've never seen before, but that's what they're using to. Teach bunny how to have a hundred sation. Those for teenagers. Yeah, what do you want? Can you say that in a nicer voice playing? Asking Your user tile, please. To Sassy. So super. Some love. Very it's fun, so that's my out. Nice will check that out and Catherwood. You have this week. So I My son discovered on net flicks I guess when he was done watching Madam Secretary or NCIS or one of the other shows. This docu series on Netflix. It's. Called Lenox Hill. And It is basically like e R., but a documentary in a part series, and they added on ninth episode about Kobe Nineteen because to them I eight had nothing to do with with that at all so then they came back later and added one more so basically is just a Lenox. Hill Hospital in New York. City they followed for different doctors, and over many months, and then put together in this documentary in its to neuro surgeons and. One. obgyn resident. And happened, be pregnant herself, and then another an er doctor. She was also pregnant That wasn't what the show is about, but anyway it was just talking. It was just. All different cases and their. What their day is like, you know. Obviously it's very different for the Er dog on the brain surgeons but It was it was fascinating. You know if you like me were an er person when that was on Didn't have so much of the like interpersonal drama that. But you know they're cutting people's skulls, open and operating on their brains. And as Sarah, bunting on Xtra, hot, great, pointed out. Did Not know that neurosurgeons swear like sailors like how wow, a lot of f-bomb came out. Out. Smell. So so yeah, it was. It was very compelling. It was one of those where I just was like. Another one. You know. On netflix it's called Lenox Hill, and also you know I used to live in New York. City and they used to live on the upper east side near Lenox hill, so I enjoyed seeing seeing the old hood. It was fun. So. May Miss Yorin although it was before Obviously York cut. Really, hit terribly hard by by the virus so. And I was sort of after I, watched the whole series, and I was like worrying about the emergency room, doctor because of the virus, and so then I was really glad that they dropped this extra one Then followed up a little bit, and it was mostly on her. It was about how she was handling it, but also how the neurosurgeons had to get you know redeployed from brain surgery to taking care of. covid nineteen patients So I was happy to see that she was doing okay. I was worried about. Anyway. It's nice to be worried about her a real person and not a a fiction writer. Yeah, and then I had I had to Google her. You know because. This. The extra episode went right up until like mid May. It was pretty pretty recent but I still had to make sure she was still okay and she is. Die Founded interview. That someone did with her. That just came out like last so good. Anyway rooting for you, Dr macrey so. Anyway that's it for another week. Apparently roundabout. If you missed any of our earlier episodes this week, look them up on Speaker Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts to hear what we have to say about our first. Work life balance with older kids and supporting kids. When they're stressed, you can also find all our episodes at parenting roundabout dot, com, talk back in the comments there on our facebook page or on twitter where you'll find us at roundabout chat and please visit our Amazon shop. At Amazon Dot com slash shop. Slash Mama Tude where you can find links to a lot of the things that we talk about here a great weekend and see you back here on Monday.
Eco Friendly Initiatives of Lenox Square Mall and Dynamic Escapes on Buckhead Podcast
"It's time once again for another episode of the Buckhead business show being brought to you by the bucket business association. Broadcasting live from the pro business Janelle studios in Atlanta. And now, here's your host for today's episode. Well, good day. Good day. We are here for the Buckhead podcast for this month's episode. We've got some great guests with us today. My name is Michael Moore's my pleasure to hostess organ disorganization of time. We're gonna learn a little bit about transportation each travel. I had to have fun. And then also we're gonna talk about sustainability from a different angle, we're going to talk about it from this from the position of Simon's mall, the largest mall operator in the country. And how they bring interesting things to us during a time when we're all trying to learn about sustainability and how we can reduce in change our carbon footprint whilst doing join things. Again. I'm Michael Moore days. Ho- show is hosted by the bay possible by not hosted. I'm the host of they right may possible by the book had business association founded in nineteen fifty one, and we are the voice of Buckhead business for number of years got a couple of it's still coming up. We'll talk about those and give you an opportunity participate, but let's kinda jump in. Let's talk about one of the stress reduces before we talk about. Sustainability? Let's talk with Loren Loren rock who is the owner of dynamic escapes. And of course, new title for you, by the way, you're the CTO. That's she travel officer. Yeah. You know, you could do that understand. You are an expert of trade travel, and you know, because life is all about experiences in the memories you create. That's what we all do every day. This is why Lauren rock founded on EMI escapes force service travel Concer Lawrence role as a travel concierge to take all the care and all make all the research do all the planning that goes into booking your trip that thereby she and Abel's her clients to just focus on enjoying the trip their time away Lauren established on that because capes in two thousand sixteen she's a member of the travel leaders network connections, prices, try and upgrades. Boy, all those things are important. She owes numerous numerous accreditations and as a special special certified by the travel industry. Lauren loves researching places ago things to do. And is it true? You are addicted to travel, I am very much addicted. Well, you know what? Caused you. Or what does these did you get to travel? I love seeing new places and seeing how other folks live and just instantly fascinates me endlessly fashion, I took. Okay. You've just let me right to the next question, which what is most fascinating place, you have ever ever ever been just one. Yeah. It's this is it pinpoint my book head, right? Wouldn't. Grew up in buckets travels from one side of the other. And that's that's not the experience. We're trying to sail here today. Well, gimme to fun places. Even we'll talk about the details later, the south of Spain, the Morrish culture and history and architecture their food, just amazing. And then I also have a weak spot for wildlife, so Costa Rica and Australia while life who freak I can just picture that. Now, I can hear the birds the Australia. What kind of noises the kangaroos me, by the way, the thought is they hit the ground. All right. We got that covered. So starting the business we obviously transferred a passionate new business. You started this from scratch your woman owned business talk little bit about that experience. I yeah, I started the business actually be at always done the research for folks friends family and whatnot. And I was in a corporate life, and it was actually my family who said, you know, you are much happier. When you talk about researching for friends and families trips than you are when you talk about your job at the corporation. Why don't you switch, and I thought wow. Why did I think that a long time ago and that is was the beginning? Really? Well, you know, we talked about where fun places we get to south Spain. We got straight stray Costa Rica talk about that most complicated trips. You you do a concert. I mean, some people have some very unusual. Maybe sometimes outlandish requests, no names. Now, of course, not I would say. The most in some ways interesting was a family of that has five children all between the ages at that time of fifteen down to eleven four girls and one boy and they wanted to road trip from Atlanta all the way up to the east coast of Canada. Wow. Yes. And they do it in five days, and they were fine. They wanted rental homes and apartments, and they were fine with all the kids in one room if they needed to and sharing bathroom, so I did the research of not only where to go, and what to see, but finding homes and places that would accommodate them, and their desires and my biggest joy when they came back was that the fifteen year old boy after spending five weeks with his entire family said it was a wonderful time, and he really enjoyed being with his family, and that just made me so happy that had they all felt that way especially him. Well, that's one step. Just having a great memory. He really had a great experience. Yes. Yes. Some people say the good old days weren't that far back, and they weren't that good. But he sounds like this young man, develops new relationships now with the sisters older younger younger, he used the older saw he got to be too big man on campus. Yeah. But I haven't four little sisters has to be a challenge could only dream. Can dream about that so K now, that's the complicated trip. Experience. Great. So what are some of the challenges you do actually encounter everyday that we might not think about for travel? Well, what people really want? Why are they taking their trip? You know, are you going because you wanna see a new place and visit every museum or are you going because you want to sit on a beach and relax from all the work you've been doing. And does your vision of your trip match the person you're going with? Well, I I guess interviewing does become a very important part of that really determining the first answer. They gave us the Trewin. Not just true that they really know for themselves because you know, if you're gonna go with someone else you both wanna have a good time. You both wanna make the most of it. Make sure you're on the same page. Make sure you have the same vision. Well, let's talk about some of those kind of trips where you don't travel along. So let's bucket list for minute that seems to be a movie called bucket list. Right. There's all kinds of this. But so talk about some of the bucket list experience where you've taken maybe high school friends. Or or or the girls group or I've had both have had a lot of grandparent grandchild trips, which is really nice for both ends to get to share something special together and creates memories, for grandparent, grandchildren. Time multifamily groups were multi generations, girls, just plain old girls trips and a few girl nothing special. No big. It's not a anniversary. It's not a wedding. It's not this. It's just time to be away together. So really runs the gamut. Well, what's what let's see what what happens if Vegas stays in. Now, probably generated some of those countries to let's talk about off the beaten track. Very strange unusual and memories, it can't be quoted in the family bible. You mean, the group that wanted to do all the wineries? They had with that yet. I had now we have to continent was on what country that was in. Did they drink Reta white? They drink everything. They went across Italy. And they wanted to see the wineries see the few museums along the way, but just sample all they could so as a booking agent. Did you get those request by please don't send them back. No, no. All right. So all across Italy. That's pretty cool. Now talk about some of the things which are trending in terms of traveled, a where where people going what are they doing special different depends on the people, you know, a lot of folks if they're lucky enough to have been to all the big, quote unquote, European cities people want new experiences something new to see game of thrones as had a huge influence on the travel industry. Croatia. Spain Northern Ireland folks wanting to see that finding small cities and towns across Europe that don't necessarily make every Instagram feed. Consecutive game of thrones. So what about downton abbey you've been done on tours downton abbey? Yeah. It's a destinations. Well, now travels important in most of us learned that years ago. We everybody doesn't always take vacation they deserve or they've earned, right? I know that Tom away from work is important in that certain that the fifteen year old man think about his mom and dad on a trip. So what are the trends and being away from work, and what's the productivity gain travel? Kind of. Let's go down that road for talk about some of your experiences, though. That's a big issue is Americans in general, don't take the time off that they have earnt and a lot of folks think will that look what a great worker. I am. But it affects your mindset it affects your ability to get your job done. Well, it affects even your health. There's numerous studies that show that if you spend all the time stressed and working it has a toll on you. And there's some studies that show that folks take vacations Regling gida mental break are actually more productive and happier in their jobs. And folks who don't so it's an important thing to do. And it doesn't have to be a huge trip along weakened away to go. Visit all the waterfalls outside of provide North Carolina can do wonders so don't feel that folks have to have a huge budget and a huge. Amount of time that is have to have the interest and desire, and as you said now with with the concierge, but also having the ability to build experiences. So maybe one time as going to the waterfalls of Vard the next long weekend might be three restaurants talk about some of the ways people expand and go back to the same places and not do the same thing says one of your concert features. Oh, folks, wanting to return to places well once you get past the, you know, things that on everyone's top ten lists. That you read everywhere else. A lot of people really want to have the the local experience not just eating a restaurant. But folks, go back, and they meet with chef. And they learn how to make food in a local kitchen, and they're not just eating great food. They're meeting people and learning about life. They're in in Peru. That's a common thing to do. Now, folks after they see much peach you and all the ruins they go through Lima, and they meet with chef and someone's home and learn about the culture in the food and meet people face to face that those connections are really memorable. When people get to know each. Other as individuals not as just faces on the bus while we're we're running back closer to the staycationing times. Now little bit talk about the expense. And and the planning some people go overboard with before they call you. Well, there's two sides to that. There are folks who spent an awful lot of time on the internet because on the one hand, you can find everything on the internet on the other hand, you can spend an awful lot of time finding an awful lot of stuff and not knowing what to do with a lot of people. I talked to. They're like, oh, I just you know, I thought I'd go online and read about a place and then book it, and they went oh my gosh. What is there's so much here. I don't know what to pick what to do and how to put it together. Well, I know you've got a lot of a lot of very happy customers over time and talk about those experiences. How how do you judge results? How do you outreach your concierge service? I ask everyone who comes back for a review not just the technical aspects. What did you think of that hotel? How did you like that tour guide? But I wanna know from folks, you know, what was your happiest time on the trip. What made you enjoy it? Most people do ninety nine percent of the time people have a wonderful trip. And that's the goal. I've had folks that have had adventures. Quote, unquote, along the way I've had people get sick. I've had people get injured and had to help them with that. But even those folks that will except for that little bit. We had a great time that broker leg ski slope. Other than that. But the chocolate was good in the fire was warm, exactly. As I have to go out in the cold. I've had to help a few folks with the last minute, you know, not so much last minute emergencies gotten a call from Australia from Germany of us this has happened. So there's some real life that intrudes sometimes on vacation I help folks without as well, you all show as a traveler talk about some surprises. You've you've experienced yourself. Well, checking out places for other people to go. I've learned that there's a huge difference between the quality of bus companies in Peru. That was the technical people like you get to travel all day, and I do, but I made up my point to be sure that I check out all the different things that are there and there's one bus company that was fantastic. It was a wonderful experience. I felt like I was an I class service on an airplane. And there was another one that I was just happy to get off that bus same thing with some airlines. I've went on one airline that everyone said was the great way to get a cheap trip to Europe. And you get a free stopover and everything's great the planes were pretty they were purple other than that. It was landings about takeoff was fine. But the the dog that was sitting in the emergency exit row. The airline that EV all four stops. They didn't get anybody seat. Correct. I had to redo everything each time and now that airline went out of business. So now we talked about memories. So you have memories today. So as as a concert person, you know, why why would we what would we not wanna fool with the internet while we not want to take the easy way? I'll let you plan our trip force. That's a good question. I think everybody should want someone to do all this for them. I will always let my wife do that in the in the with the kids input that we had a good trip. It met there met their needs. So wrapping up working here in Buckhead and working with folks, very unique opportunities how people get in touch with you. I'm online internet or website or good old fashioned phone call. Okay. My phone number is four zero four three seven to thirty four zero three right? And on the internet. You can be found at dynamic. Escapes dot com. And as we wrap up this segment, you know, what specialty you won't people think about summer travel here in Atlanta with one hundred nine things you've probably have done here. It's gonna be hot. So I'd say checkout Kennesaw mountain Arabia mountain all the wonderful walking and hiking trails that folks may not know exist that you can feel like you're away for the day. And not be quite as hot as you will be in town. I was kind of thinking about combining two of your trips your bus trip in your one trip here Lanta gray line. What is it? There's do that. There's some wineries not too far from town. We could do that to bless book. That trip was a pleasure. Visit we alarm I think I think people have now plan there some vacation. I sure hope they'll call amick escapes and and pick the best place to go when they have the best experience. Of course have the best memories. Thank you. So now as we turn our attention to sustainability, and I guess we did talk about it. But probably green tours pretty big in Costa Rica? Yes, and other places will folks are starting care about their carbon footprints and impacts. Whether that was my segue to the green Atlanta, we've got trees here. And I was thinking of I was. In Atlanta, nineteen fifty nine. I remember nineteen fifty seven remember clearing all the trees born to Bill lenox mall. So we've got some proper zip salmon's property Representative with us, they Lindsay Jones, and she is the coin of marketing, and I love it titles tourism marketing, and people do still come to lenox mall and stay in hotels across the street and have a phenomenal experience. So it becomes a travel experience, which becomes memory. Absolutely. We're definitely an iconic shopping destination as you alluded to turning sixty this year, which is a big big thing, you know, happening here in Atlanta because we're Lennox is such an iconic shopping destination. We have lots of visitors coming from all over the world here to Atlanta. And of course, one of their favorite stops in their top bucket list things is lenox square, and we're happy to be part of that when they have afforded show Lindsay sharing. She started out in Kenner, Louisiana was Simon's talk about your evolution. And I know one of the things you very proud of. And I know one of the things that your bosses he's a positioning social media that Simon mall lenox mall. Course plaza. Yes, here, you know, they're to destination shops, and I was gonna comment sixty year anniversary issue, but no lenox mall has been a senior for ten years when they turned fifty. It was a big iota Noche opping center because this was the first shopping center of the country. My right not in the country, but in Georgia. Yes, joking. I remember note for near mall and going with girlfriend down to casual corner and sitting on a bench outside which she shot sitting outside shops. Now's a lot more convenient because they have nice cheers nice air conditioning. And of course, food courts. So talk about the changes in shopping and social media. What's it, really? Meaning to you guys. Now, I mean, obviously, you can see through the years how much Lennox has changed but still continue to be the iconic, you know, dominant shopping center in Georgia in the southeast. I mean, really we kind of have everything for everybody and everything from top shopping Zara all the way through the luxury brands of Burberry and Louis Vitton could have anything that you need Lennox really has it all we have two hundred and fifty stores, which you know, between lenox Phipps, there's three hundred fifty stores with more than one hundred exclusive to the market are between the two shopping centers. You know, we really call it I- conic shopping at the corner of you know. Lennox. And so it's you know between the two shopping centers. It's really everything you need. And then obviously is you know, we continue to evolve and grow the shopping centers, you go through on a Saturday is doing, you know, so well booming, and then, you know, all of our great initiatives and everything happening this year's part of the university, and then all of our earth week initiatives that we've been doing to really talk about sustainability, which you'll see all of our social media like just all the different ways to be part of the community and to continue to guard the shopping center, which you know, just gets bigger and better every year will imprint of proud of Simon properties. And of course, nationally very proud of links and focusing on sustainability so talk a little bit about two month. We've been going through now and some of the some of the highlights is well, if some of the things that you folks do all year long to focus on sustainability. So what we've really been doing for the month is we've been working with wellspring living, which is a great organization here in town to do clothing donations for their women centers. So they really work to help bring women that have gone through sex trafficking back into society. So we've really been working to you know, collect claw. Adding to be able to donate to these women to really have professional outfits to be able to bring them back into the workforce. Which is a great community organization. We've been working with and we're doing that as part of our sustainability month as well to be able to recycle clothes rather than throw away and continue to contribute to the landfill. So that's been happening. And we're still gonna continue collecting for them. They're great organization. We did a little bit of a food court takeover. So we had all these great medal straws that we've been giving out all month long to be able to really get rid of some of the plastic and really do like reusable metal straws. They've been great branded with their own cleaners, and sterilized and everything. So we've been saying, you know, hundreds and hundreds of metal straws across the food court at lenox, which is so great to see, you know, really kind of take away from the plastic use and really talk about recycling. We've been doing a lot of recycling which we continue to do we've in conversion to LED lights which takes back on that energy in this kilowatt hours with his car touching stations. So we have twenty four carding stations Lennox which is really great for you know, to continue to promote the elect elect. Truecar's the Tusla in the front. We have the car stations by the food court. So lots of sustainability efforts we've been doing through the whole month and kind of continue on throughout the normal course of our business. And then, of course, retailers are really giving back this month. Apple as doing all kinds of recycling things for recycling. Your phone and electron IX J crew and made well or been great partners, recycling jeans, MAC, cosmetics, and Keells you bring in your old makeup products, which I know ladies have so much of you bring him back in and they'll give you new products to replace them. Which is. So MAC and heels they both have great programs are recycling. The containers. If you think about it like, what are you really doing with your containers? When you're done, right. You can bring them back into the store, which is a really great effort and initiative because you know, as ladies we have lots of make products. I wish leave one is there a record for how many tubes of lipstick. Someone's all I'm sure there is a great like you bring back ten and you get a free lipstick and return, which is really neat because when you think about how many lipstick tubes. You kind of have Lang exactly try new colors. So there's a lot of great initiative kind of all year round that also happen in terms of integrating opportunity for children and so forth. I'm sure that's bad some field trips during earth. There have been we've been seeing lots of kids all kinds of really fun family activities were also working with the national pediatric Cancer Foundation in the month of may. And we're doing a great children's fashion show that'll be happening with really fun kind of initiatives working with children throughout the month. And you know, family's been a big. Focus for us this year, and kind of seeing more and more kids kind of come through participating and garden planting that we've been doing pot decoration all kinds of family fun. Well, now, you can just go to Simon or Lennox dot com. And find all those things Tillis how people can get really involved because I know for one of the things about going into mall is suggested nation, but when you get there you go. Wow. I didn't realize all this was happening. How do you? How do you get the story out other than the Sunday paper, which we don't read the more? Well, the best thing is always check our social media. Our Instagram is always being updated, which is Atlantic square mall. Our Facebook page or Twitter. And then of course, if you're at the mall guest services, kind of your one stop shop for everything still run the Senate so right in the center, right outside Neiman, Marcus on the mall level. We have a great stuff there that really kind of knows everything the top inning. They can give directories restaurant information. They do coat and package check. So like if you wanna do keep some more shopping. You can actually check your packages he'd have to carry everything through the mall. There's a lot of great free services that we offer there. And they kind of know the ins and outs of everything going on a little. Zetter tip is to always check in a guest services. They have good stuff. You know, a scratch. You've got the up front parking. You've got to police station outback. You've got you've got all the stuff people need, and I'm facing ubereats caz swinging and picking up delivery food, so really small does do it already. Do it off something for everybody. There's got to be a slogan here. So what's the opportunity for the next few months? What's going on this summer that people might wanna said this summer? We actually have our I walk with livable Buckhead is doing their five K coming up in June. So that's going to be their first time doing it that we're happy to host. We also have of course, the sixtieth anniversary at lenox which will be happening in August as we're getting ready for back to school, which is always a great great fun time. And then of course, you know, looking forward to holiday we always have, of course, Macy's tree lighting, which everybody loves the fans. Don't forget Santa and the pink pig. Oh, all of those kind of great memories that happen at lenox are continuing to come back. You're over year super now in August. You said to sixty seven version. Is going on special is they're gonna gala the giant tree drop baller having a community reception to really look back and see everything that's happening kind of through the years of Lennox two years, and as we continue to grow Volvo of lots of great pictures and activation of things happening. And it's really looking at where Lennox started as outdoor center that you say, which is so great because if you actually walk by our office, we have one of the original benches from the outdoor centre with a photo of guy sitting on the bench of one of the original concrete benches. We're pretty sure it's you best Saudi. I can remember those days. It's so interesting because we have on these great artifacts already through them. All so it's just kind of bringing them all together as part of the sixtieth anniversary. So like if you ever walking through Lennox, if you're going by the food court bathrooms, you'll see that bench that I'm talking about with that great photo that really shows it back when it opened in nineteen Fifty-nine was a pleasure. So you've talked about Instagram. You talked about Facebook you've talked about all the other ways suppose someone wants to host or do something different them all year two point to con the person you'd like to have all kinds of special events, just whatever book had thinks of. So my information on the website. If you go Simon dot com, and you go to Lennox's page our information all be on there. But we would love to hear from everybody of what they're thinking. And all their great memories from our sixtieth year to like, you'll probably get a few of those phone calls. I remember we are the regional shopping. I George not I in I in south east, but not I in the country. I guess what was conscious Vitas out or something? That's all up north north assault nor so in wrapping up. What's the store you won't remember about lenox mall day? I mean to definitely check it all the great things that we have going on. And we're continuing to be a great community partner in all of our sustainability is going along with that all of the great information about everything we're doing for earth week and all of our coming information's on our website. So just check it out. There's always lots of things happening. And then the other good trick on our website is it has a list of all the deals so all the store sales. That are going on are all in our websites. You can even pull it up and planner trip before you come. Can you censor some of that advance? All right. So you must've read the segue part because you know, now, we've got a little bit of time left and Lindsey. I wanna thank you been was. And it's really interesting Lauren has talked about travel, we talked about lenox mall being destination. We've talked about taking care of yourself and shopping certainly a break it's therapeutic right shop. I absolutely believe that could tell. Yeah. So. Sustainability Costa Rica travel shopping taking time off it's just interact. A little bit about experiences that go on in your in your world, and how you might integrate and help each other because you can provide more customers and she can provide best experiences. Have a few memories. I remember the mall as an open air mall. I remember walking over there. When there used to be I think it was an AMP grocery store down where the near with the food court is now I'd walk with my grandmother from her apartment on lenox to that grocery store. So I hate to admit it. But I have some good memories of that last a little longer back, then I would care to admit, remember, the fireworks. Oh, yes. Good old days. Always memories. We love to hear as you go to the center, you'll see we have a lot of great old photos black and white from Davidson's, and like all like, no the real good history of like how Lennox has really been kind of the cornerstone of the shopping, especially here in Buckhead and remembering the experiences for one might have been the bad Saturday for the other one. It was the first pair of shoes for the for the door, and you hit about three, and she got into the shoe thing. I remember that day. So in terms of working on the planet. You can take destination vacations you can you can save in in staycationing talk about what you might enjoy over the summer integration of shopping. Can you have some shopping trips? People very much think about shopping a lot of folks when they travel they wanna see what unique things they can get when they're even other cities, the neat shop's places in New Orleans that are a little different experience than getting to have the entire world Lennox, but that is a big part of some people's shopping is part of their lives. We, and I think the experience of shopping in the store being able to touch and feel and try on and like really kind of building those connections, which you talked about like really kind of having connections with the people that work in the store, those people that you're shopping with I think it's all between travel and chopping all connection, which is really what people want to enjoy in their time off of work is like really being able to connect with other people, which is, you know, Lennox is a great place for it. When you're traveling for vacation. That's really what you're. To do. I think connection is really the point of kind of at all I'm thinking of good Davidge chocolate. Yeah. And shopping and Williams Sonoma, and and doing those things which we can relate to and we can show people and talk about things. So man, it is just so exciting about we got to destination. We got all these places to go. We got I don't know what the number is one hundred nine places she hasn't been in Georgia, but certainly many smaller should be on top of that list. And we look forward to visiting go folks and seeing again, we're brought to us incurred in part by the bucket business OC. And so, you know, since nineteen fifty one which was a little before the mall. We'll we'll be getting toward our seventy s a pretty soon and looking at the opportunities, I know both of you have participated Saima, small courses, sinuses, long-term, participant B. And of course, Lauren year, a Buckhead this association member, so let's just divert for just talk about your experiences to be as we wrap up today beating he's been great. You know, some people are like why did you need to join an organization. You're from the area. Don't you know, all you need to know? And it's not just knowing it's meeting all the new people learning all the great new ideas that are floating around Buckhead. You know bucket is not the same that it was when I was younger. I'll. Ten years ago or even ten years ago and really understanding what's coming. What's going on? How you can be a part of it everything from the growth of the mall, the idea for the park next to the mall over four hundred what all kinds of businesses are here. Now be has been a great way to connect with people. And learn more about a place that I knew a lot about, but you can always no more. There's a lot of details and your and your experiences you've been a couple of morning meetings. I have I think I mean it's early though, I know that they are very early. It's always good to be. 'cause you know, we really look at lenox as part of the community. So in order to be part of the community. We have to be part of the community. And I think that that's why it's really important is the mall is really part of the bucket community and has been for six years now. So it's always great to see the new faces that are coming in really talking to everybody in the community and really learning. What's going on in what people are looking for? Because we know we're always open to feedback on what people are interested in. What would they like to see more of? Kind of really hearing the feedback from the community is always very key. While I'm give it plug for the early morning meetings. Kid business association does meat at least three week three three Thursday mornings each month and sometimes four if his five Thurs, but we do on the third Thursday each month, we have an after hours, and so he had the opportunity to not only have breakfast time meetings with fifty or sixty of your closest friends because they'll get that way. Or you can join fifty sixty folks for an after hours one of our find bars or restaurants here to city or analogy, and you mentioned a moment ago about the park over four hundred get into here about the details from the people responsible for making it happen. It's very cool niche. We've had all types of developers. We've had all folks from the Georgia chamber of commerce talk about initiatives. We'd be paper from the legislature talk about things. So literally it's Thursday morning breakfast. You're gonna learn things that she would not have the opportunity to learn any other way unless you had all the French needed. And most of us don't have the ones that know the right stuff because they wanna talk about things, which we made it. I mean, I think is important. And so I gather we'll be seeing to bucket business breakfast of each time. And as well as the after hours now, we have two other simple plugs. We've got the signature lunch coming up which is in June. And then, of course, one thing you don't wanna miss early fall in September. This year's taste of bucket, which is obvious you great treat sell on behalf of the bucket business sociation on behalf of Michael Moore. Here they Lindsay Jones from Simon's properties and Lauren rock of dynamic escapes the new CTO for bucket. Thank you for being with us. Rich Lassana sof. Thank you for joining us and our guest on the pro business channel. Use the social media links here to share today show and stay tuned for the next episode of the Buckhead business show. Brought to you by the Buckhead business association.
14 - Dr. Varinder Singh: Coronavirus At Ground Zero
"From Kurkcu media you see this is medicine. We're still practicing during a pandemic. I'm Bill Curtis with us through the wonders of remote. Telephony my co-host Drool Board certified doctor and Internal Medicine Pulmonary Disease Critical. Care and neuro critical. Care my very good friend Dr Steven Tailback. How You Doing Steve? Hey Bill could be nice to be in a doctor. Steve has been working fifteen hour days running the ICU at Providence Medical Center. And it sure is reassuring. Knowing we've got someone like Steve on the front lines of this battle every day. Thank you for making time for this today and thank You for devoting yourself to that. 'cause it's my pleasure. Our guest today is zooming in from Ground Zero in New York City. Dr Varinder Singh is Chairman of Cardiovascular Medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital Group in New York. He's secretary of the Lenox Hill Medical Board and he's an assistant professor of cardiology at the school of medicine and senior vice president of cardiology in the western region for all of the North Health Group. Which is the corporate entity for twenty three hospitals including Lenox Hill? I'm sure that I'm missing something. But thank you so much for joining us today. Verlander thank you very much for having me on one of the things that they feel like. We should cover. Now Dr Singh is that you have kind of a unique perspective on this disease both from the treatment side as well as your own personal experience. Can you tell us about that? I contracted cove in the middle of March. I had it For two weeks you know I have to tell you that Two things work with this disease. They really do relation. Works Right. Stay isolated the other thing that works to speak to eat We're looking at our conversion rates for our doctors and our frontline workers a appropriate use of PD. Well used we have less than six percent conversion rate but we still have the six percent conversion rate and I think. I'm pretty sure that's probably what happened to me on the front lines and I kind of look at my Cova. Domus all COVADONGA MRS as either. You're really sick or you're not that right it's like a define line And and if you survive it Categorized you in the you weren't that sick 'cause I've seen enough and I think Steve is probably seen enough to know that people that really do get sick with this. Don't where were you one of the guys that just had Hardly anything as far as symptoms are concerned or did you have some serious symptoms. I woke up on Tuesday a Tuesday night. I felt a little headache. And that's one of the known presenting symptoms of it again. I didn't think anything of it I just was like. Are you been working a lot doing a lot of the frontline ships on strange physical and emotional and I woke up? The next morning was Wednesday morning and I felt viral right. My eyes were puffy. They were watery And I had congestion and I knew enough that I should not go to work. I assumed I was awesome. I went and got tested. Did a chest x-ray the blood work and all emergency rooms right now and this is something that the public should know you know we are Cova contained and are pathways for evaluation in American healthcare. Right now are done scientifically. They're done through epidemiology so that you are actually at a low risk of getting Cova seeking medical care and that is very very important because I think a lot of people believe. Oh my God. All those patients are in that building. And if I walk in there that's where I'm actually GonNa get it and that's not true so I did. What everybody should be doing is I went to the emergency room. They had a whole pathway. The screen me before I even got really in the building a pathway which was the viral evaluation pathway Got Tested got chest. Xrays saturation's You know positive and we felt like I could manage myself at home. I can tell you that about four or five days into it. I could not remember what I had done five minutes ago. So this is important because we clearly know that the five to eight day window from the original diagnosis is a critical period of time. Steve Seen this. I've seen this people doing much better much better. They Crash Bang the inflammatory response. And so I actually got into an argument one week into it with my employees health director from the from my home self-isolated saying I'm ready to come back to work. And she was like no. You're not I'm not clearing and I. It's been a week. I have seventy two hours. No fever no cough. I WANNA come back to work. It was like no way. She was great and our after that phone call. It came back on and it came back on me much much worse than it did. The first time and a wound up in the next day. severely dehydrated. I've never been dehydrated in my life. The gave me fluid bag after bag and I just was like I need another one. You know what my own body was saying to me. You need more of this Listen you always become a better doctor when your patient you learn more empathy? You learn what's going on in somebody's head that sphere its anxiety. It's the same questions. I had the same off of like. Wow I still got a big run left in the. I'm not ready to go yet. I mean all the things that every one of us thinks about ourselves they think about and it makes you more empathetic incompassion. Tell us a little of how it makes you feel as doctors in the middle of this thing as you see us opening up with a higher base of infected people then we had even when we locked down in the first place. I don't think we've been hit nearly as hard as New York has. I'm actually very concerned embracing for major impact and very frustrated with the concept that people feel that it's okay to start opening businesses and re assimilate into society the higher density of the virus. I think may much more dangerous than it was in February. The fact that people have basically had enough with social distancing and masking and their frustration which will cause them to be even more lax than maybe they were before I think creates a potentially very dangerous set of circumstances and I think our hospitals will have a huge surge like we had initially but now with a base of patients who already have the disease but enough. You're going to add a sudden peak to that. We're going to feel that pressure. Healthcare professionals be at risk in patients will not be able to get the services that they need and that's at our level in Los Angeles. So how do you feel doctor saying? I can't imagine the pressure that you guys are under right now. At one point we had over four hundred forty patients in the hospital. We would like to think that what we learned early on and disseminated nationally and internationally helped you of you know we. I know that I was on multiple track groups that first week with physicians all over the East Coast positions of Midwest positions on the West Coast. And we still kept those going. Those first six weeks of this awful will you subject to some of the shortages that we all saw on the CUOMO press conference. We knew we were at just enough levels. And so every day you would wake up and you come in and you'd say how many people are under investigation. The merchants from how many people came in and it was just every day more and more and more and then we were scrambling to get stuff. We had People Donating de we had people Donating whatever they could do to to help us get what we needed to get through. It was overwhelming and it still remains overwhelming. You know a Steve. You've seen this when they first started coming in the people that we were discharging by because we were filled so we were trying to triage people to stay at home and call them to see how they were doing. And we all talk about it. You know some fifty five year old guy who comes with a bilateral pneumonia and has a PO to set of ninety four in the pre co era hundred percent would have gotten admitted right just for his own medical health and just because we were scrambling did an amazing job of like built making beds every night every night every day we make more bets but we would try and manage a lot of those patients at home call them and follow them and make sure that they were doing okay Just doing that early on was you realized that we were into something that we've never done before. Can I ask you how many ventilators you have it at Lenox Hill? I don't know the exact number but I can get it for you. Know it's interesting. Everyone talks about. Do you have an ventilators? We have capacity of one hundred ventilators but it always say and who is going to run one hundred ventilators. Did the the rate limiting step on that is not the number ventilators at least in our institutions. We have an ICU. Team of seven people. We could expand that ever so slightly are then going to say seven. Doctors are going to be running hundred ventilators not to mention all the other consoles on the floor. How big your team was Doctor Saying Atlantic Sill? But you had four hundred in House. You said half were critically ill. What kind of staff did you have to cover that kind of volume? So we you know we had three levels of care we had a a regional floor than stepping up to. Atelli covet floor and then the ICU. So sick pretty sick and then really really sick. So that's Kinda how we broke them up. We have just to get back. To Your your question. We have seventy four ventilate. There's on site right now. In Steve's absolutely right we thought ventilator ventilator ventilator. Let's get it. We learn quickly that you don't want ventilators right. You need them to support people but you want to try and keep people off the ventilator as much as you can because being on a ventilator was you may not have gotten off of the ventilator that's when you were really really really sick so all the things that you guys are doing that we were doing. It was absolutely amazing to see how many people we could just keep off the ventilator from doing things that simple rony putting them on their valley but in high flow masks on them. That's what we tried to do early on. And that's what we're still trying to keep them off to the vet and the weird thing is that it was learn as you go because initially the idea was let's not to you know heated high flow because that's going to increase era salinisation. And so you go from droplet to aerosol precautions so puts a higher risk for your healthcare staff so the initial recommendation was well. Let's intubate these early because otherwise you you know. They're going to be coughing. They're going to be on high flow. Just put them on event and then what we're finding is that people invents not doing so well best to keep them off if you can and so we've done a one eighty when it's come to innovation that's dive into verrender specialty for a minute because one of the things that is pretty clear by what we hear out in the press is that people with heart disease have a much higher risk of developing a serious illness from cove. It Dr saying why is that so clearly if you have underlying heart disease if you had underlying disease and you got covert and you got a bad case of it. You just did not do well. I think it's because people who were who had underlying disease had less reserve. The virus intern had some effects on the heart muscle itself in some patients where caused a direct myocarditis from the inflammatory reaction. People who are failure any heart failure whether it was a heart failure where your heart muscle is not weakened but it's just squeezing fine but his stiff any Israel our failure you got You did not do well. They also say that having high blood pressure leads to a more serious coverted illness. Having long standing hypertension can make your heart more steph right. It's so hard does two things at squeezes and then it needs to relax the let more blood in of people that have a hypertension often times have no problems wheezing and getting blood out of their heart but then the heart cavity get stiff and so that they can't relax as much an open it that's known as diastolic heart. Failure hypertension will more likely to have a dial car. Failure and people who had heart failure had a much worse outcome with their covert infections. This susceptibility issue certainly with diabetics and people with connective. Tissue Diseases like Lupus. They have a suppressed immune system so they have an increased likelihood of contracting the disease to begin with then on top of that. This is what we call. The Co Morbidity sees where they already have underlying heart failure and limited reserve as Dr Singh was referring to within not only have increased likelihood of contracting the disease but you also have a much greater likelihood of doing poorly once. You get the disease. So it's kind of a double hit phenomenon on that note We're GONNA take a quick break. We'll be right back. Hi I'm Robert Ross. Host of cars that matter you might be wondering what makes a car matter and I have a feeling you know the answer. Some cars have changed history. Some you can hear a mile away. Some have lines that make your heart skip a beat if a car ever made you look twice then. I think you know the ones that matter. Join me as I speak with designers collectors and market experts about the passionate drivers and passions. We drive cars that matter wherever you get your podcasts. We're back with Dr Vrinda saying and Dr Steven K BACK. Talking about some of the From the effects of covert. And what we're doing about it to Dr Singh when someone's in the hospital and they're Kobe patient and their positive and perhaps they're in the ICU. And they're there because their heart condition has led to a more serious illness with covert. Do you get called in on such cases or are they really just being treated for covert at that point? Yeah that's actually a very good question and a very good point. I think Kovic was the leading diagnosis. It was what we were treating one two and three The patients that did develop a myocarditis. We might have gotten called in to see if we could do a support device or even consider at Mora L. bad some of these advanced support devices. The good news was very few patients that required that The bad news. Was that if you have to go down that pathway you're not going to do well was really Kovin. That's what we're treating Kobe. Long support oxygenation. Have you changed your strategy? At all relative to cardiac illness duty when Cobra's involved versus some other maybe viral myocarditis or viral cardiomyopathy or other forms of cardiomyopathy. Has Your have your strategies changed. Have you learned so far? So we've learned From cardiac effects of Kobe. There were like three buckets right. So some patients leaked your own and shown the first marker for damage to your heart muscle Often times when people are heart attacks. That's one of the markers that will cease start show up in the blood Tr- opponents were elevated in Cova positive patients. The second group of patients was really this group of patients which we learned very early on. They're ekg's looked like an acute heart attack work. I guess the allegations and we would take them to the lab and people were taking them to the Cath lab do an inch rims and there was no significant obstruction. So there was this. Ekg evidence of a heart attack we went down to a normal pathways is going to be a blocked. Artery would open it and we would notice that there wasn't any major walk inches and then the third bucket is the most severe bucket the one that I just alluded to when people had a direct wildcard ideas from it direct myocarditis in the setting of critically. Ill patient multi system failure as you know if those patients don't duo whether it's the flu or cove it or st or any other systemic viral homes. We've we've realized that. There's a hyper collateral -bility. There's a high tendency of blood clotting with coded patients. Have you been able to correlate those changes in the segments and those that? Look like a possible cardiac infarction to those patients who also were hyper coagulant or there. Not really relationship there. We saw to write this whole idea where we were seeing patients developing. Ddt's then we were seeing the strokes right. People were starting to have some strokes and even some coronary thromboses. So we also recognize that. There was something hyper quagmire. Lable going on here so when we took these people to the Cath Lab. We were sure that we're GONNA see thrombosis from lesion in the property and we didn't right especially I think the multi system organ failure. You know more than any other disease that I have seen. Thus far seems to be a part related to this hyper coagulant process squeeze. We've had people actually who you think are turning the corner from the respiratory standpoint and you're thinking you know what this I is actually made actually come through because like you say life and death sort of depends on the lungs for most of these patients and if your lung survive the patient will survive and yet next thing you know. The patients showered with multiple cerebral infarction. You know and they suddenly go into this cardiomyopathy that that that does the men or they have massive ee. I mean we saw at people were doing great doing great and then boom massive be right. So it's see you're always you're you're more fragile than you think. Under these circumstances and you can usually get lulled into the sense of security that you know they seem to be coming off the ventilator oxygenation seems to be better and then you get this other you know the second hit of thrombosis events it's fascinating terrifying and it you feel. It's so funny eventually. I'm sure that they will look back as we look back now on the woo. Woo Plague and say Oh my God. All they needed was a little pencil. And and you know you're sitting pestis is gone. I mean this diseases over with you. Know and look at the millions of people who died and I'm sure at some point in time Our technology will catch up with you. Know the mysteries of virology and these will all be a historical fascinations for right now born. We really are struggling. You guys here that the background we do. That's The New York City seven. Pm Salute to healthcare workers. How Wonderful Pretty Amazing? It's the best part of the day. Open your window then. Let's hear it. Yes and every day on that form on seventy seven Lexington somebody a restaurant or entertainer or somebody does something new and special for all the frontline workers. Very amazing fading away now. That's very touching. That's amazing Brenda. What do you think is GonNa be your view of New York City going forward? How are you going to be dealing with the emotional backlash to the The feeling that well you knew a lot of people and you you talk to a restaurant tour or a waiter and chances are they knew somebody who was hit by covert. How is this going to affect the city so I lived in New York nine eleven nine eleven? You knew somebody who knew. Somebody may have known someone here. Every one of us is going to be directly affect everybody's GonNa know some everybody's GonNa have lost somebody that was close to them or in their life directly the psychological effects of that morning coupled with the unknown of this. Because we gotta to start living again right we got. We have to get force ourselves out there. I don't know how that's going to happen. Wire all my buddies. Call me all the time asking me. If we're going to have a also part of it is they're looking normal but part of it is. They're looking for some sites some insight. The question they should be asking is. How are we going to have any sporting events Susan they want to know what we think scientifically how it can happen and I think emotionally you guys you guys have been on the head not just for our frontline workers but for all of us? I mean we just went through something. We haven't been through in one hundred years as a country that doesn't just go away unit sinks in and it takes time for you to process it. Organize it and deal with it and is so global. You know it's like you want to escape. Where are you going to go? The Moon is the only place you can go right. I mean there's nowhere on this planet where you forty the escaped us. Well quite a quite a change doctor seeing as we open up society but especially in New York City. I just need to get your perspective about schools. Elementary schools through high school. How do you deal with what has always been a bit of a a a viral party in elementary schools? Where it's all brought home your parents. How do you deal with opening up those schools again in New York City? I'll answer your question by saying it shouldn't just be about schools. It should be about how we're going to actually re engage in every aspect of our lives. The days of me. Going to my pediatrician. Taking my kids for a preschool clearance sitting in a room of thirty other kids in a petri dish waiting to see the. That's over so I think we have to re look at every single mass congregation thing that we have in society and we have to look at them different. Know we have to look at schools. And how you gonNA socially distance those kids how GonNa Monitor those kids right. How am I looking at my own offices my office? We took half of the exam chairs out of the examples. Okay the in the Waiting Area. So okay Glass up there if you're in a community that the offices as a parking lot don't wait in the doctor's office even if the doctor tells you to wait in the doctor's office say here's my cellphone of right outside my car perfectly isolated and when you need to call me. I'm not stepping to sign in with this pen. That's been signed in by eight hundred other people and it's never been wiped down. You'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA do all that electrically before I come in there I'm GonNa wait my car. You're GONNA call me. I'M GONNA Walk Right through. I'm GonNa go do what I need to do. An I'm out of there. Were giving care with minimal exposure. That's the balance of everything going forward education. It's the same thing they have to educate with minimal exposure. I agree with you. I think early on during this process the way we're going to get back into community is by doing it. Slowly by distancing continuing to distance continuing to be cautious. But I'm not sure that this warrants US socially distanced forever. Well at least until we have a safe vaccine. I mean for the next two years clearly for for this virus. You need to make sure that is Safety but going forward long-term we're we're going to be social beings. We're going to get back to life eventually but not prematurely. I agree one hundred percent. Once we have a vaccine truly some sort of preventative or a treatment. That's very effective. That once you've got God forbid Geico Vid we give you the silver bullet and occurs. You also reduces the gravity of of this particular infection but I kind of feel like we're at Mile Five on a twenty six mile marathon. Exactly right we. We really shouldn't be looking at the finish line yet. We're not there yet. We're a long way way right. Yes I love I love. I'm a New Yorker through through I'm jaded New Yorker I hate it and I love it and what do I love about it? It's the energy what's the energy. It's all these people that love it the same way. The Restaurant Scene Walking Central Park. That's and density is our enemy when you're dealing with a virus so it's GonNa be so interesting to see how New York comes back. And then there's the you know. The human factor some people are in play the percentage and they're gonNA be like. I gotta live my life. Let's go out there and then there's going to be a group that's going to be like. I can't function knowing that I could get it out there. Under these circumstances at what point is a procedure considered somewhat elective or not like a stress test? If in a normal world you would send a patient to get a stress test and find out how they were doing. Is that something we should keep doing right now? If it is not an emergency in New York state and you can't in your city you cannot right. Under the governor's degree the no elective procedures. So the only thing that we've actually up to do is what we call level three procedures defined as urgent procedures. If you're having a heart attack in the four weeks ago during the Cova crisis you walked into Lennox Emergency Room. We treated you just like we did before the covert and now we're starting to get our teams back although not at full strength so we can start to do the urgent cases if you needed a hip replacement because you're having chronic pain that's an elective procedures. There's nothing urgent about that. You're doing it for your comfort. It's necessary it's worthwhile but you need to wait because the risks versus benefits certainly outweigh doing that procedure. At this time if it's not risking life and limb to delay then you should delay it up tell you this we determined. Obstetrics is not elected a woman in her twentieth. See gets the right a woman in her fortieth week of pregnancy. We made a determination. There's that what Steve was saying. It used to be emergent versus elected. Now there's a whole spectrum in there in obstetrics is not elected and people would say well. This woman's doing fine. She's with child that we need to continue to monitor and continue their medical care as we bring this show to a close. What is your prediction for how your field is going to go over the next? Oh let's say six months nine months As we opened things up. How do you think it's going to go for the covert situation as well as your issue of people who are handling or not handling something that could be critical for them At a time where you really want to consider avoiding doctors and hospitals and that pen at the drugstore that they make you sign the sheet with I think from Kovic standpoint. It's widely reported our governor. Who's done a great job with his With his press conferences. If you look at the rates on our plateau they're going down until the last two days. You see the uptick so I believe that as we allow people to be out more as the weather is better we are going to have a reemergence of some more Kovic cases right. I think I agree with you. One hundred percent or not We are not ready to open yet. We are prepared and I get it you have to people's livelihoods people sanity is going up in smoke right now so what you have to be prepared to accept what's coming which is going to be a reemergence of this. How bad it is. I tell you one thing. We're going to be able to handle a lot. Better rights the be able to test in a lot better. Where Gate right porn? Tina lot better able to source of snow. We're slowly getting ahead of it. We were caught flat-footed. You know back in January February but now we are prepared. We know what to expect so we can handle the surge better than we could initially but I would not want us to be cavalier about this notion that you know because we understand it better and we don't understand that much but at least because we understand what we need to do during a surge to help protect everybody that we should feel that we can be cavalier about opening at this juncture. A huge reemergence surgery emergence whatever. The nomenclature is is going to be devastating on multiple levels economically psychologically healthcare every level. So we have to be very very difficult. That's my word a jewelry right. Let everybody out. And everybody's happy for a week and then we're miserable again for three months and history has shown that if you look back at the Spanish flu nineteen eighteen. They were complaining about the same things that were complaining about. We don't like the mask is too uncomfortable. Livelihoods are suffering because we're being sequestered and the second surge was deadlier than the first. We're going to have to watch this closely We're going to have to pray for our family and friends. We're going to pray a lot for guys like you. Who are on the front lines. That are taking care of us in this tough time. Dr Verandah Sing in Dr Steven back. Thank you for coming in and zooming with us today. I hope that you'll come back and join us again. This was a wonderful and dynamic way to learn some tough things that we own. Don't thank you this is Madison. Were still practicing. Have a good day if you like what you hear. Please tell your friend and let us know how we're doing by leaving a comment. It really helps. If you give us a five star rating in we really appreciate it. You can also subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts. Stitcher or wherever you. Listen to your favorite podcast. This episode was produced and edited by Mike. Thomas Audio Engineering. By Michael Kennedy and the theme music was composed and performed by Celeste and Eric Dick. Thanks listening to Kirk who media media for your mind.
"Hello and welcome to season twelve episode eighteen of the ability to podcast in today's show. We're going to be having a chat about creating new APPS. It's not destroys and how to get started with LENOX DESKTOP APP development. We also have some gooey love and we'll go over your feedback joining me this week. We have a triple M. It's me Mark Martin Hello and Matias Hello so Martin. What have you being up to recently? I have been setting up the steam client with family view and library sharing in the invidia cloud using the nvidia shield as the front end to steam. Wow Okay when you say in the invidia cloud allowed. What significance does that have to your library sharing setup so with the invidia shield you? Can you know run. PC Games they run in the cloud on the East be cooled the invidia grid so basically a load of windows windows computers Puteh's with nvidia graphics cards in them and you can then say I want to play the game and it spins up that machine that game runs and it streams it to you you you know and you play the game and it works remarkably well. I've always been impressed. It works even with things like driving games where latency is kind of important for controls and stuff. How'd did you enjoy driving games? I do not driving games mentioned this before anyway. My daughter said to me it's the first time this has happened. She he played Lego worlds her friend's house and she really wanted to play Lego worlds so I looked into this and so of crater steam account and I we'll worlds in my steam account and shed my library with her and we now have the steam machine in the cloud an it's got I caught Causey on processor and sixteen gigs of Ram and two hundred and fifty six gigs of envy storage and a twenty four Gig of Video Ram Invidia Tesla. GPA New so it's it's quite pokey and we have the shed steam instance and I've been up up to share that game with her and she's now playing Lego worlds for the PC on all it all nvidia shield and in the steam client handles all of that xbox books controller support for the Invidia Shield control now just looks like an xbox controller in the in the cloud version of the game so hold on so so you have a dedicated gaming machine from invidia. Is that right or you have you have a machine which just happens to be connected to the Internet and you're playing over steam streaming. Now we have a we have our own dedicated windows computer in the nvidia cloud the happens to be esteemed computer both of our account Saronic and it's just like an actual. PC that you would have at home but you don't have to obey except he's not home and it's far more powerful than most is people's computers. Nice is pasties glimpse to the future with things like Google Stadium Errand Shadow stream or another organization during this Yeah Yeah. Is it just lego world so is there any micro fortnight in your house so for Agatha. It's just like a world's olds. However Mike How many other things I've actually been trying out for my own stuff so I've been trying some bracing games of course but also fortnight so yes fortnight is one of the options and that actually doesn't use steam but it uses the you play launch show again windows instance in the cloud so h sparks something up and I have fought night now and a bunch of other games as well so over you can go into the steam client and you can look at your entire library and potentially install anything and also it's interesting you install a game? That's thirty three gigabytes and just this goes installing done so I don't know how they've done that but like in installs are instantaneous as our updates but will there you can enable any game from your library. There is only a prescribed list are compatible safe. You try and install that's not it will tell you this isn't supported yet but the games that are supported are presented through the sale of the marketplace. Ui in the on the video shield and you search for Lego worlds and you find it and then underneath it will say steam so you know that's how you actually accessing the game of course you have to own a copy of these games or you can purchase them. If if you don't base is working very well I I think he's terrific yeah. I'll tell you what have you been up to right. So about a year ago. I created my first snap with a bit of help from popey and that went really well and was very easy so I thought take my take establish making another one and snap a piece of windows software called Heidi scale that was using mainly they just running it through wine as as time and that hasn't been straightforward with when you when you start franken signing a set up from a lot of Yemen's you end up in a lot of trouble so you were trying to piece together examples from other bases found em and as a developer who doesn't the doing he got some interesting results out there. Have you ended up with anything usable and not yet but when I get some time GonNa poke did Alanna for more help. He's been graciously pointing in the wrong direction for those of you know in in the no digital Danny's in L. Telegram Group. That's been to poke cost Ford Slash Telegram and his name is Daniela well in and he's a a prolific snack graft community contribution. Yes he snaps old things and a boon to the community. Yes absolutely other than that. I've been playing around with the latest blended two point eight eight release which is sir tremendous piece of software that I could talk about at length and already have so I see last week shake for that right. Let's go on with the show now we were listening to the latest telecast with popey while Allen's on his travels in in Canadian and he he had a short discussion with himself about the continuing proliferation formation of Lennox destroys and how he feels that it would be a much better service to the Lenox ecosystem if people were a two. Yes you build a distract yourself to learn how it works but if you want to go out to the world you shouldn't be making a district. You should be making an APP because of various reasons which we will discuss now so we've listened. What did you think of Allen's comments so the first point that I broadly agreed I o obviously I'm kind of in an awkward spot here because I am guilty of this very thing which is making destroy creating hype around making a Web site creating social accounts getting myself on Destroy Watch you know all if those you know tick box exercise of I'm a legit Lennox destroyed so yes I've I'm guilty of that? but I do to agree with Alan you know we don't actually need anymore distributions in the world and I think that there's plenty of opportunity to learn how to create destroy and how to integrate a desktop environment in a destroy without making a destroy you can use things like Lennox from scratch off aw ch or Jin to to learn the internals and how these things stitch together and if you're successful I think is right. You can keep it to yourself. What do you think about that? I certainly like the thought of one day when I've got you know a few days of free time might do the Knicks from scratch to archie understand. All this stuff hooks together because it doesn't impress me the knowledge you've managed to gain by just saying I could probably do with making this for my family and then now if I need to understand understand how something destroy works you seem to know or so I've always been interested in that but I would never I would never have thought that anything I might make from that. Point of view would be something I would release as something that other people would rely on for their computing. That kind of scares me yet scares the hell out may as well completely thinking back I was one of the people who contributed contributed to the phone when the kickstarter but the was a crowdfunding campaign for that 'cause I figured I would put my money when my mouth was I and one of the things that was most excited for that project was the core APPs weight which I felt was deeply needed to have integrated set of apps the way apple had done with our lives weight and it's a shame to me that that fell to the wayside yeah that cool rap story was quite powerful because it wasn't just the apps they will also creating an St k. It was a complete platform an ecosystem and it's something. I still think we need it. It's the separate acknowledges that we use that really great bud. Uh Apple really has nailed it with the these of us that come with just controlling chain so do you think we've got anything in the Lennox ecosystem compete in that respect with with regards to I I want to make desktop. This is the k the I go and use his may have frameworks and it's largely split between nominee Katie philosophies of how we make soft sweb unless you are going completely out in the woods on your own. I think I think it would have to it'd be more thoroughly. thought-out collaboration at the core between the platforms have been have been a few attempts to drive this from the community in the past we had a few years ago we had quickly which was a framework for spinning up new projects using python and GT UK which was a nice idea but I don't I don't remember seeing any apps like that. Were solve Donovan released and widely used which would start using quickly mighty. Try a few hellawell type things with it and it was it was a noise tool but it didn't seem to take people much further than that and in with the with the particularly with with two phone project we saw a lot of noise around cure now I if I tried making some acts as I thought it was a really brilliant way to make desktop APPs and graphical apps in general like if someone who's familiar mainly with the web having a sort of declarative way of saying this is my interface and then just hook into the coat when when you need it to actually do some logic you know something like that as a as a framework to push people towards seems like a really good idea idea that we should have. I don't think we necessarily need to come up with a way of appeasing all of the current entrenched philosophies because is at the end of the day. What you need is something which destroys will be willing to adopt destroys will be willing to adopt it with in what regard we can build stuff tuft of high enough quality to be the it will be if not available by default but the they will put in the effort to integrate integrated into their environments when I get this made that we can't even seem to agree on a notification system yes so you'll talking there about like like the the underlying sort of functions are fractured between the different desktop environments right yeah? It makes development harder better than it should be right. Well there there. Is You know there are standards there about the about the notification services what's facilities you stick should expose whether or not all of the stops are implementing those features out. I can absolutely say they're not there are differences in their gaps in the implementations -tations but some it was interesting that you mentioned q. Am L. and also how you know using web. Technologies would be comfortable to you. I'm not just describe electron Y. Y.'s electron not the the way that we should be advocating people create their applications for Lennox because because hey ho you don't get to create an APP for Lennox you get to create an APP for Windows Mac as well yeah I think I think he's a really good option especially. If that's what you want I fell with cure mel from the sorts of user experience so what's the word after sort of design language point of view. That's not quite what I'll get there in a minute and I'll say the declarative tip style. No no no. I'm not talking about not about the writing code style. I'm talking about what you end up with for the user the visual language yes. That's it yeah you end up with a familiar visual language the sort of native feel to it the the keeped gives you which is the underlying technology and you also have a lot of power to if if you walk your mouth issue in the framework isn't enough you can then go and create your own components for it which can give you extra power to add into it so that's why I think it's a really good technology and I know that electron I've not I've not built anything electrons so I don't know enough about how you doing. I'm aware that electron does let you sort of create the interfacing the web technologies. I'm have more power more native stuff behind as well yeah the stuff I'm more familiar with electronic basically making your web page in a container which is handy and something I've well. I work with to an extent and you can also use use the same technology then to make phone application by wrapping in Cordova instead of wrapping it in electron which is really handy. One of one of the things things were technologies which I think I think Mattias might been alluding to in the in the previous episode where he was talking about. CSS is the UH it's quite a broad and flexible set of technologies which can lead you to doing some things which aren't terribly advisable or terribly terribly noise to us and can add a lot of unnecessary bloat whereas something like cure mel keeps you focused on annoy lean y of writing an application Hausa content you just how much time I wasted. Yes getting a button in the right place so so. Do you think that we should be a advocating for these web. Technology things will do you think we should be taking a leaf out of elementaries book where they have spent a lot of time and being very careful about creating an st k. and a consistent way of creating applications consistent language engaged all of the documentation available. They've got a coded to built right into. They are s they've got the whole APP store publishing pipeline and you should all of the destroys go off and recreate that kind of experience or should we throw native applications out of the window and go with webs. I don't think he should go and create. Its own way of doing this. I think it would be really good if we could standardize dare. I say it on on some sort of common pathway for doing this sort the thing. My sister tends to defend Sweden as a generic. It's that we have standards any seems to wipe us and I don't see why it wouldn't it be true for lyrics ecosystem. The difficulty is the way starting from a position where we've got you know a a dozen different solutions funds to this particular problem seven competing standards right indeed so what we need is a new standard which F. One milligram right okay well well. You know there's some work going on you know there's always is always google around the corner who is going to create something new and shiny for people to to us only to abandon it well. Maybe you know I flutter seems to be gaining in popularity and you can use that for creating mobile apps and in desktop APPs across all of the platforms including Lennox so you know again that utilizes web technologies is not telling us something at ATS. I'm building a web technology APP. It's it's definitely an interesting failed but I don't think it's applicable to all types of software okay so you would prefer that you had native applications that fit in with your desktop Lennox operating system I I'm probably biased because it's what I'm used to and I don't know if I'd grown up ten years from now. If I would feel differently might devote position is that we've we should have software seems cohesive and intuitive and familiar so we've danced around bit the you know we've got lots of different from ways you could create apps for the Lenox stop but the the ultimate question allen was posing in his telecast is what can we do to promote the idea that people create apps for Lennox rather than destroys so why is it that we don't in have enough Tony George's in the world who are focused on creating applications that Garner high volumes of uses its it's a think the idea of making a district is exciting. The idea of making a utility is not so much. I think you with win. The clinics ecosystem destroys are celebrated. You know we have destroy watch. We don't have a watch we have. We do have some prototypes in in-app stores and stuff but we we don't necessarily make as much of a fuss about apps and developers as you see around you know if you look at the mobile platforms you don't get show you can create your own android rum if you want to but you don't that doesn't have the cash around the having your own APP does true interesting so the inverse obviously snaps alongside APP images on flat backs that the solving one aspect of this in terms of getting the software to everyone without having to worry about dependency so a thinking of few as time once we hone in on a standard that will inevitably become more prevalent than others it snaps be flat tax tax it. It's a it's all about making it easier before us to both make software but also consume it and you raise a good point now you know we do see not a lot of ISV's an independent developers self-serving publishing their applications in the snap store on they would never have I've published or attempted to publish their applications in you know the actor no. PM Repulsive trees because that is the domain of you know Lennox enthusiasts and volunteers and what have you but the snap Staw embodies that APP store paradigm that these develop is already familiar with thank creating electron applications. They're already publishing their applications in the windows store in the MAC. Os store they they have got the benefit of having something that runs on the next two and they won a store to publish their stuff in and we see this every day there are new APPs being published in the snap store and quite often than the interesting applications that we would not have known about the didn't even know that they will in excursions available and there's all sorts there's one I saw today from the Brazilian government and it's a an electron application yet can think what you like about that but as a metro application designed for deaf people and it will listen to the audio that you'll playing on youtube videos or whatever and then it displays an animated character that produces the sign language engage to translate wow that's fantastic yeah I know right and we would never have known this software existed. All the the Brazilian government was sponsoring initiative like this had they not published in snap store so I do think that yes this APP store. mentality ability is is kind of critical to this and I would like to think that Allen and I are doing what we can a professional level to promote this idea of creating APPs and we do celebrate bright paypal or your efforts are appreciate but I do understand that there is some kudos associated with being destroyed create or destroy. I maintain and I certainly capitalized on that because ultimate ultimate the end ended up getting a job doing that very thing working for canonical so that worked out very nicely for me so maybe there is some benefit in creating destroys. You have the benefit of having a buy in from the community you you don't just I have ten uses right well. There was a time when I had ten years there was a time when it was just me and my mom you know it's quite different now you you measure your user adoption. In how many stadium can you feel with people about you. What did you set out to create a multi for Edna was a data began as a learning opportunity for it began as a way to facilitate my family's these requirements to keep a lennox desktop environment running that they were familiar with that was ready where it came from his his you saw the practice problem but the other thing is this is the I have created several applications for Lennox as a result of working on up into Monday and I would have never have created these applications nations had I not created into multi so one of my counters to Allen's argument is the I think creating destroys actually results eighteen apps being created as well just look at the number of bespoke applications that exist within a boon to light the update manager for example and the software center in various other things things so creating destroys does also create APPs but I don't know whether a destroyed generates the same number of APPs that the same develop a could create if they were only making it does create a bit of a chaotic environment as well for an end user? I mean I'm on eight hundred four a believer leave us such for update as C. Three different icons for updating software. It's it's it's still a little bit of wild west and I would. It's still argue that we need explicit standards of how we should do things yet and there was a time when up into his going that with into touch Russian unity eight you know it was its own thing happiness de que I looked and smelled like the desktop environments from the mainstream vendors us in that respect in terms of you know developer attractiveness. It's it's it's. It's a shame best not money to be made in that space. Maybe that's part of thing maybe we need more monetization of APPs on their necks and that's what would drive more more people to do it as a sort of a small time thing at first but then you brought an out and out bought a few APPs on my android phone but I don't know why this why they're such resistance to pay software on the platform. I think we need both I think the discussion about paid apps on the next as a debate for another day. Let's leave it there for now then so if you any thoughts about how we could drive people to feel more APPs on the Knicks or what you think the best tools to use to to build Lennox apps are then you can get in touch with us this at all the usual ways you can email show at apple podcast or and some other ways that will tell you about intimate it and now it's time for some we love. We love you say some gear of what have you got for his mark well since I bought a new phone I've had a one plus one sitting around unused which is still just about limping along on its half dead battery so I thought I would have a go at installing into on it right since it is one of the supported devices by the UB ports what's project and I went to their website and look to their instructions and I found out that they have a piece of software called the reports installer where basically you you install the desktop you plug your phone over Usb and then you select your phone and you press installer Bentiu please and and it does everything and then it reboots and you're running into which is fantastic way easier than I've seen any android install. You don't have to flash sure I in recovery or go into the recovery and flash around Rome you just everything is handled for you. It pushes over over the year spay and does all the reboots and the flashing various images it needs to for you and then running system and it's really cool next them well done. Ub Ports we love getting your feedback. If you've got a comment about something you here on the show. Why don't you drop his name? Oh on show at Apple podcast dot org and now it's time for all of your wonderful lovely feedback. I up Allie amount us on the show Attleboro Dot Org. I just wanted to reply to a last episode this season twelve episode sixteen comment to say that the music music used in the show are old but they are nostalgic and fun so please keep them. I love them and more music. Love came from Dark Brown one on twitter. I can't believe the hate for the theme music I love it and have an absolute Pavlovian response when I hear it. It always makes me smile. Please never change IT A. R. K. had Brian Hole in my old. Would it be feasible and have any value to be able to install and run snap packages on the windows. Os was I think it would be a valley and coming to a WFL install near you soon. I think is the answer tonight. One uh-huh yes so yeah hopefully w ourselves to will enable snapped packages to run into on windows yes you you can so of course it to work today but we're working on refining that little bit okay so yeah we interesting to see how that works in practice I I would be very curious to see if the old windows software that is in snapped with wine will run better now. There's a challenge for somebody or comparing the comparing the blend snap to the blender windows build Shaimaa emailed I've played with Lenox off and on over the years but have never really had the need to set up Lennox box. I've recently sets up Lennox in a virtual machine at work but now it's up and running. I wondered if you could point me in some direction correction for some ideas oh projects to do with fresh Lennox install to help my knowledge grow. I set up a Samba server test scanning from photocopier. What awesome awesome must installs now? This got me thinking about when I was first experimented with Lenox. What were the first things the I installed and played with and I just got to thinking that really I just started using the things that I was using windows? I was doing a bit of Web Development. So I worked out house. I also use the tools to do that with Lenox and I'd been using the five bucks browser so I walked to housing five Fox in stored and use that for web browsing and then I just saw it to kind of explore explore else was available. Radian was using Katie so I spent a lot of time just playing around it understanding what Olympic stop environment was and how the file system was structured and and things like that yeah well my first experiences with Lennox I used it for were very different you know I was using mail service with demon Internet intimate mail relay an FTP transfers and stuff like that you know there. It was a very basic. I don't think about using Lennox Shas just getting stuff done so you know I just install the applications that I need to get work done and a lot of that is in the browser but you know as as I look at my icons in my workspace is obviously visual Studio Code is very important to me I ac- cloud for communicating with my colleagues into various projects. I'm involved in and the telegram client and wave box for organizing all of my Google males stuff and obviously blender now well. I I'll be honest with you. blenders mystery to me. It's a closed book I I. I don't think I have the mental capacity. Oh maybe the creative flair to watch the understand. What lender is for you? Don't need creativity. You need reference right okay. I think we're being very helpful. So I tell you what it would be good if our listeners could give a sham some advice you know what what should Shembe looking at to you know get them started with some interesting ideas idealism projects next up Charlie O's yeah. I really hope I pronounced that right email out. I I have been listening to the debate on whether you should advise people to run Lennox and not windows have been amazed at the negative I've installed Lennox men cinnamon on many computers the friends and others and they advantages a huge. It sounds like some of you a bustling out tried with one person and you will be amazed yet. I think the you know many many many general purpose computer users will be able to get long unused Lennox just fine. Most things worked for most people most of if the time these days yeah the the the reason. I think I've I was hesitant when we had this discussion was the I don't have the time inclination to be. It support for my friends and I worry that if I also if I get into installed Lennox and things go wrong then they're going to be yet I asking me for help and they might not live nearby and then I'm GonNa feel bad about but actually the few people I know who have switched since we had that conversation. I've not heard anything I'm from them. So I feel like my fears are not entirely justified and so in that you know It support problem isn't as hard. Does she think I mean I. I've got some tips where what you do is you create a bulletproof reliable distribution I pre install hardware partnership with a computer computer vendors somewhere in the UK and then when your family need a computer you tell them to go to intro where by this laptop and arrives at their house the next day with with your operating pre operating system pre installed which starts an application you deliberately wrote for your family so when they say well. How do I install google chrome? They I just have to click one button and he is taking care of an at no point. Do they have to talk to you or or or find you up. You just have to tell them where intro where lives on the Internet is pretty and he takes only takes five years to achieve this level of Zen master. Pull you know once you get there. It's plain sailing and as the subway needs grow you know you you just need to keep making more software the settling air copious prophecy and finally Stefan from G. pod Dot net tweeted. Thanks for mentioning my search for new maintain or on your podcast very much appreciated for anyone interested go to this get hub. Url which will have in the show notes. Yes I thought that was is worth mentioning again just in case there's anyone listening who might be interested in taking your maintenance jeapordy dot net and that's your feedback. Do you tweet follow us a boon to podcast Licheri tweezers tweets so all your twitter but he's confined us and that's all for episode eighteen. Thank you for listening. We will be back next this week while we'll be discussing community news going on goings on and events. I'm not sure who we're going to have with US next week but it will be a surprise. I know I'll be here. I might not be you might not be Allen might be not sure yet. Maybe we'll have a guest. Maybe not maybe maybe it could be three random people that have never done the full cost before you know it's and that'd be a fun experiment. Yes distributed postcards yeah. Maybe we'll just get people to do audio clips on telegram and stitch stitched together at ten accosted podcast yes well if you'd like to get in touch with us. You can email show to focus too all you can come and chat with all three of us and the cost of hundreds Atapattu podcast oxide telegram you can tweet US focus on twitter and you can leave nasty comments on our Youtube Channel YouTube
Ep. - 265 - DR. JOHN BOOCKVAR FROM LENOX HILL ON NETFLIX
"Welcome back to another episode of Reality With Casey. Hope that you had a wonderful father's Day weekend we had a great weekend with my husband and this incredible article was sent me by my friend Mora and I'm wondering if some of you already know the story a read about it and then went on to watch a spectacular episode of e sixty on ESPN about the story. Wanted to share it with you because there's nothing more than I love in a great great story. So dealing, McCullough is a cans. The Kansas City chiefs running back coach and he went on a search for his biological parents and found them were he never would have expected. So. He's the son of Carol Briggs. She played her newborn son. Up for adoption, he was born December I nine, hundred, seventy two. There was a big snowstorm that it hit the greater Pittsburgh area not night. And the birth mother Carol was sixteen years old. She drove an hour to this home for mother's babies and coalescence in Allison Park Pennsylvania. She wakes up around two o'clock and labor and thirty two minutes later. She was a mother and she named her baby John Kenneth. Bricks, now are older brother. Parents drove the our from her hometown of Youngstown. Ohio to be with her in the hospital after cleaning out a room at the maternity home and signing some papers, she was back in Ohio, the next day ready to resume relief as a sixteen year old high schooler and National Honor Society member of you can even imagine it just goes back to life as it was. The birth father was an eighteen year old. He already gone off to college by the time. She realized that she was pregnant. So no one outside of her immediate family and her cousin Robin knew about the baby only when she was preparing to sign the adoption papers. Did she consider sharing the news the father and ultimately she decided against it. She just felt like he's off at school. I got myself into this situation, and I'm going to have to find my way out of it so their parents blessing. She decided that when the child was warned that she would place them up for adoption. She was told in our last interaction with the adoption agency that he was placed with a doctor and his wife in Columbus Ohio. But he wasn't fact. Placed with another family Adele comber, and her husband adopted him after they lost a son they are. They had one son, and then lost another one, so they were eager to bring a new baby. And when he was two years old, the father Mr Palmer had a stroke and ultimately was part of a series of events that contributed to the deterioration of their marriage, and he ended up just walking away. Adele worked tirelessly to take care of these two young men instilled in them the value of an education of community in faith, and even though it was financially crippling at times, she was able to get them all the support that they needed in form of people in the community, great teachers and great coaches. Dealin was really phenomenal football. was really able to flourish in high school, and by the time he was a senior, he was getting offers from lots of local colleges. And he remembers fondly A. Having all this attention from schools in this one day at school remembers looking out the window and there's this beautiful Mercedes. Benz pulls up a red one with Tan interior and this man walks out a college. Football recruiter and offers them in a chance to play for Miami University, so he signs the letter of intent, and he goes on to play at Miami. Coach. Who says you know? Listen you guys You might have fathers of your own, but think of me like your father too I. Just WanNa make you strong men, and love the game of football and I'm here for you always so there were these great coaches and mentors along the way that we're there for him. So does quite well in in college. He goes on to play for Cincinnati bengals ultimately, his career is ended short with an injury. He gets married. He starts teaching. He rises up the ranks to a principal, then starts coaching. He rises up the ranks and coaching An- ends up becoming a football collar professional football coach. And ends up actually on the same team as his former Mentor for his college Miami, university. so He's feeling quite great abbey still it's still nine at him that he has not found his biological parents. So. It was particularly hard when his wife had their sons he they have four sons. Because when you're in the hospital, they ask you for information about your biological parents for your health information. And she of course was able to do so, and he couldn't because he just didn't know anything about his own birth parents, so we felt like there was a mission like I've got to find out. So an early two, thousand seventeen, he He gets word that new laws in Ohio and Pennsylvania had called for the unsealing of adoption records, which would give him new hope that he might find his birth parents so in November more than a year after filing out the requisite paperwork and years after search began, he finally received his adoption files in the mail, and so for the first time he sees the original birth certificate complete with his. His name John Kenneth Briggs and the name of his mother Carol Denise. Breaks there was no identifying information about his father, so he goes on a facebook search. He Finds Carol. He writes to her. He says did you by any chance of Sun December first nineteen, seventy two, and she responds I did he asked was his name John Kenneth Briggs. He was and so they make plans to call. And when they start talking, they get along really well or immediately, and it's soon after into the conversation. He's just like you know. What can you tell me about my birth father? And she says Oh Gosh. I haven't even said his name in so many years. Of course, she wanted to keep it a secret because she was afraid that if anybody heard the name of the up the father that it might. Begin some sort of gossip and she just felt like that was unfair. So, she says to him. While his name was Sherman, math and he gets totally. Loss for words, and he takes a big sigh, and he says. I, Know Sherman Smith. He was my coach at Miami University. He's been my friend or my friend and mentor for Twenty eight years. The man that showed up in the Mercedes Benz. The college recruiter signed him to Miami University. Who ended up being a coach of his who ended up being colleague? For Seattle. That was his father the entire time he was being coached the entire time afterwards that this man had become such a loyal. Loyal friend and colleague and Mentor. He was looking at his own father and had no idea. So he's so he eventually call Sherman and says you know I've got I've got to talk to you about something we'll you know I've been on this pursuit for my biological parents and he's like yes. Yes, I know I know. And I found out that I was born or my birth. Mother's from Youngstown Ohio Kid Outta here Oh. Isn't that crazy? And she told me his name Her name is Carol Briggs and he was like okay now. He's thinking himself. Oh, I, know carol breaks. and. He says you're you're my father. So if you can only imagine what that would be like these two men that have had this really very very deep relationship for all the years years to find a bad his son. So the ended up. Coming together and it's been quite an experience and now Deland McCullough the second is now playing Miami University at the same place. His grandfather coached whereas father played. And, they had this great thing at the end of the episode. Where Carol and Sherman and Adele, they were all in this big family photo with Dylan and his wife and his four children, and they said you know we are a modern family. You know somehow this is all worked out and we're all so happy. It just makes you. Makes you remember that. We all. All live in a very small world and that if you're meant to be connected to somebody that the universe finds a way for you to reconnect or to be together, or to have some sort of moment where it all comes for full circle. So found myself crying, crying, crying reading, not story, and then watching the episodes. So if you WANNA watch episode, you can go find it easily on Youtube. Just do a search for Deland McCullough and Sherman, Smith. Quote a great story. Also what I've been watching this weekend. Of course, I have been watching I watched all the episodes of Lenox Hill and Mike featured guest. Today is from that show, so we'll get to that in a minute, but I've also been looking at shows to watch this week and I wanted to give you an advance notice, so you can have some time to look through it I definitely still wants you to watch pistorious on Amazon prime. There is a new HBO DOC coming out Docu series in fact called all be gone in the dark so true crime writer Michelle McNamara. Spent years investigating the golden state killer, and while she died two years before he was arrested, her work was published in our efforts are being turned into the series, so that begins Sunday at ten, and it's called all begun in the dark and fantastic. If you love anything having to do with true crime. Ministry of evil. The twisted cold of Tony Alamo is on Sundance TV Mondays at seven. It's going to explore a couple who the network says came two-wheeled unimaginable power, becoming millionaires on the backs of their believers. Again I'm I love something about colts. I'm fascinated by them. And so that's called Ministry of evil, the twisted Colt of Tony Alamo, and then there's Netflix documentary that's coming out on Wednesday and I. Hope to speak to somebody about that project. It's called Athlete A. It's a documentary that follows the journalist who broke the story about team Dr Larry Nassar Assault of Olympic gymnasts. I've been following the story for quite some time and a lot of you have as well really it is. A. Another look at how important is as parents as coaches as teachers. To pay attention to the people that are in Children's orbit. To pay attention and to not look past things because someone has a job like doctor. To always pay attention so I'm going to be watching not as well so might guest this week or this for this episode is fantastic. His name is Dr John Boop far, and he is on this fantastic's fantastic show called Lenox Hill on net flicks. The show is great because it profiles four doctors in in. The storied Lenox Hill. Hospital in New York City as they balanced personal lives and their dedication to their patients. I like it because it's a real window into not only just busy hospital, but in to the delicate dance that these doctors have how two of them first of all heavily pregnant throughout the series, and they are managing heavy schedules. Heavy emotional physical work and In many cases for neurologist neurology team, trying to keep their patients alive, and you just are left wondering how in the world can they manage all of this and then still go home and have totally fulfilling lives personally how can still be married and be apparent and to be aware of the kids, teachers, sports, teams, and the friends at home, or go on vacations and have great conversations with their spouse or their friends after hours when you have to deal with someone's. Tumor growing or high pregnancy. It's so interesting and I I. I would I just wanted to know more about what that must be like to work in hospital. So I think that if you love those kind of behind the scenes looks, you will love the show and he's a riot. He so funny so kind I mean. Can you imagine the sky schedule and I reach out to them and say? Can I just grab you for a minute and just ask you about the show in your job and he could not have been more gracious. And he's happily married with four kids. Who are all teenagers and saving people's lives every day and just wanted new all to know how grateful he is for watching the show for being invested in the patient stories to be invested in their stories and also talk about the incredible work. The hospital is doing in light of covid nineteen now. I should tell you that it did. Did ask him off line that he should be on real housewives of New York. He did say that although his wife would be fantastic. That probably wouldn't be a good fit for him, but I don't know I'm like holding out hope that could maybe convince them otherwise because she seems super funny, and it would be really fun to see a doctor's wife one those shows. So I'm really excited for this episode so here we go. Dr John. BOOP VAR is the director of the brain tumor center and the Patou. Terry, neuro, Endocrine Center of the division of neurological surgery and the New York. Head and neck institute at Lenox. Hill, and Manhattan your throat hospitals. He is one of the doctors profiled in Netflix's incredible docu series. I love it. It's called Lenox Hill. It follows four doctors at New York's storied Lenox. Hill Hospital, as they balanced their personal lives and their dedication to their patients. John Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me Kate. Is it annoying to have to say all of those titles? Yeah, I mean. We can cut a gallon. So tell me a little bit about how this project came to be. This project came to be through actually David Langer who is also featured show through a mutual connection through the terrific production company called you. Lari films David was introduced to the concept and I credit David with really recognizing the opportunity to showcase to the world means to be inside of a hospital and helping Lenox Hill and the administration navigate through legal and others to make sure that we were able to do the show. It's incredible Chino at all how they chose the doctors. Well, absolutely, and they originally started with more than four doctors, and they started filming more than four I think the number was fixed and you. What people don't appreciate really is takes effort to make sure that you can consent patients, and not every doctor can get consensus, and for example there was an interest in doing you know showcasing a nurse for example, but a nurse who rotates from shift to shift it's it's much harder sometimes to get. Consent from a patient is being taken care of by a nurse On the floor for example, then from unintended. Doctors, so they started with about six of us, and then the after starting to film and seeing the cases and the patients who are willing to consent. They narrowed it down to the four of us. Was it a difficult process opening up the cameras to the patients? Did they all have difficulty agreeing to it or did? They seem to forget about the cameras just as much as you did. You know we about the cameras and we and the patients alike and their families. The terrific thing about the production company was they were so. attentive to the wishes and emotions, and of course safety of the patient that it never was an issue, not once never not once the patients felt safe. We as physicians or or practitioners felt safe, and frankly what was surprising in a beautiful way was how? So many patients wanted to share their stories good. And Emotional they wanted to get their stories out. They felt it was worth sharing. I wonder if they are beginning to get feedback. Just like you are assuming that you're overwhelmed with good, you know sweet notes from people I'm assuming. Maybe you're even recognize a little bit more Gino. If that's happening for some of these patients, too because I feel like we've been invested so much into their stories. Well I think so. In fact we just saw. Mitzi and Tony from Tennessee, and there are celebrities down in Tennessee now and I actually have spoken to even the families of patients shoe. You know we lost since the documentary and they're so grateful, and you know I had spoken to the daughter of a gentleman who lost his battle to glebe less Doma, and I think he is honored in episode six, and I just reminded her. There's been such an outpouring of love and support and engagement and and philanthropy because of this docu series, and and it's important for those families to know that. The the good that they're doing in mem- in Memoriam of their loved ones, whether it's raising awareness or raising money is really going along way. They're your super gratified and just It's really terrific. Because for some people they may have never even heard of the term blast Doma so now they have the face that's attached to that term. An all from a TV show. That must feel really gratifying. I think so. I think obviously patients about thirteen thousand nuclear westover patients per year in the United States, and that's that's not a big number. You know you've heard of obviously John McCain and Ted Kennedy and both Biden. but it's it's what we call. An orphan diseases, Shirley and underfunded disease but it has one of the largest the largest what we call lost income. Years of cancers because it strikes predominantly men in their fifties and sixties, and it's. It's just an absolutely terrible disease, so for some patients. It's obviously a difficult docu series to watch, but we hope it brings much optimism and joy, as it does heartache, and that's you know that's what we wanted to show. What are the majority of cases that you've seen over the last two years, and do you have new hope and new treatments? I do brain tumors. That's my thing. I do brain tumors, that or either malignant or benign and benign brain tumors in the brain can be deadly, so we have to remove many of them whether it's a mini Ngoma or Terry, region, tumor and then I do cancers obviously, which has been showcased in the Docu series and I have tremendous optimism I think as a field we have made incredible strides, even the last five years much like your technology on your iphone or your Samsung has improved. Improved the technology you know operating room has improved. We have new dies. That can pick up tumor when they're in the brain and allow the surgeon to know if it's tumor or normal, we have new technologies using artificial intelligence that can pick up changes on memorized skin, so we are rapidly using technology boom that the consumer is seeing in things like their iphone to improve the outcome of patients with things like Leo Blessed Alma. When did you know that you wanted to be a neurosurgeon? Well I always knew I wanted to be a doctor. I haven't identical twin brother. And he went to law school when I went to medical school, and we both went to college at University of Pennsylvania, so I knew from an early age, for whatever reason I was interested in medicine when I got to Penn, I had a professor named Steve Foolhardy. Who's now the Dean of the University of Pennsylvania? And he was my neuro psychopharmacology professor, and he just piqued my interest in the brain, and off I went running in. In I was really interested in medical school I knew I wanted to be a surgeon so I. Put you know my interest in the neuro sciences with my interest in being a surgeon together and I came up with neurosurgeon, so that's how it happened for me, and what is a typical day like for you because everyone sort of dumbfounded that you were able to cram so much in in a day and do you get a chance to see your kids like? How do you fit it all in and on day? Well I have to say I'm highly efficient in some people would say you know to fault, but I have a lot of responsibilities, not just a work, but to my wife into my. Four kids who are five years apart and so I. Get up really without an alarm clock between four thirty and five five thirty latest work out every day and Matt I. Think Six Twenty Eight train. And I ended up in Harlem and about six forty eight and my desk could 707. And I start surgery at seven thirty, and I make every effort to make sure that my mornings are efficient because I know I wanna be home for you, know dinner and homework and hanging around and tossing a ball with my kids and our new puppy. And then you know we sit down and we laugh, and we'll watch American idol, or even in sort of a bachelor with the girls Then I go to sleep and I hit repeat. And do your. Does your family get attached to patients? Do come home and kind of share with them. The stories of the patients that you're working with and do they feel invested as well. You know I I don't invest my kids in in the story, so my pacers I do invest my wife. My wife will know difficult case, and it's important that she knows. If? She knows every stressful case in you know and eloquent location in a young person where there's a lot of risk. She'll feel it, but you know it doesn't. It doesn't debilitate her, but if I'm you know eight hours in a and I'm finally dealt with the case. Check my phone I'll see four messages from her worrying how the case went but So, she's been a sounding board for me for twenty one years of marriage and and I. It's helpful for me to have that that That crutch, if you will and obviously guys like David Langer in the office or extremely important, it's really important to have a brother or sister in the office and you can rely on. That's You know so supportive of your work so that the quick update on the patients that we saw how is Murray? She's doing great. Her family's lovely. She's wonderful. She's sweetheart everything is She's doing terrific. Glad to report and how Mitch Doing. Mitch is still fighting and he's back a work. He's He's a terrific spirit also and really. He's got two great kids who are so supportive and He's really doing well. He's fighting this disease like anybody with cancer, but he's fully-functioning working hard doing surgery and and and continuing to fight the good fight. Do you think there's a chance that we can see second season? Up to net flix and the production company, you know we stay out of those kind of decisions I tell you, we think there's an appetite for these kind of shows I think from the outpouring of love and and responses that we see both on social media and directly we think there is a relative need for this kind of transparency, and they're surely an appetite, and so obviously. That's up to net flicks to decide, but I'm so pleased to see how much an appetite for this kind of Docu series. And then lastly, how is the hospital doing in light of Covid nineteen? was doing amazingly well. You know it it sort of a graphic analogy, but much like when a hurricane or tornado or some natural disaster can can destroy things, and and when you rebuild, it's much better, you know. Kobe was somewhat of a national natural disaster that's up to New York City in in March and April. But we pivoted as a hospital. We renovated. We built I see US ICU beds. rapidly we rapidly overturned are telehealth and so These are advances that we made. That are sustainable so our. How are hospitals are better than they were? Pre Kobe I'm happy to report well, that's great well. How can people kind of follow you? Track you down or find more information about you and your practice? I'm happy They can follow me on twitter. At John, book for or an Instagram and the same name anyone who wants to make an appointment can email us at Lenox Hill neuro-surgery at north, well dot Edu I'm available online by googling. US at Lenox Hill nurse sure agree will they'll find all of our contact information and our social, and we really available for any needs of anybody in any patients of course. So grateful for your time. Thank you so much. Okay Great Nice talking to you kate. Sing! I want to thank my fantastic. Gus Dr John Booth Far. And remind you guys to subscribe to the show to leave a five star review jump in the facebook group and talk about this episode. Talk about future episodes. What you're watching the podcast listening to the books that you're reading the stories that you're consuming the books you're reading everything that kind of keeps you fulfilled and entertained during the week. We would love to know about jumping the. The group. My twitter is at Cape Casey. My instagram is at CAPE KC and I have fantastic bonus episodes. If you go to my Patriot on page, which is P. T. R., E. O. N., Dot Com backslash Casey I. Just had one hour interview with Canada's Preeminent Society columnist Shenango Vanni about what's really going on with Jessica and Ben. Mulroney and Meghan Markle and I interviewed medium. Jonathan Mark about to unsolved cases, which was the what happened with the Valo kids, the decision making process that culminated with the death of the two children who was more culpable, Laurie or her husband, Chad, and also the case of Shandra, Levy, who was an intern in Washington DC, who had an affair with a congressman, and disappeared one day in Rock Creek Park in the middle of the day, and what really had happened her so? So check those episodes out on my Patriot on page as always I'm wishing you a very good week I know. All of you are busy I'm grateful for the time that you take to listen to my episodes. I'm grateful for all of your input on potential guests shows to watch it CETERA and I. I just want you to know that you mean just as much to me as I hope that this show means to you.
28 - A Doctor Contracts The COVID-19 Virus with Dr. Varinder Singh
"From Kurkcu media once in a great while we have a guest on one show who gives us profound things to think about. That really must be heard on another one of our programs one. Such example comes from Covid Nineteen Ground Zero in Manhattan a short time ago. We invited Dr Varinder Singh the Chairman of Cardiovascular Medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital Group in New York to join us on our medicine. We're still practicing. Podcast this is important. He told us about his experiences. Treating hundreds of covert patients in one of the countries hardest hit regions and he also gave us an inside. Look because as it turns out Dr Singh experienced the disease not only as a physician but also as a patient. This is medicine. We're still practicing during pandemic. I'm Bill Curtis with us through the wonders of Remote Telephony co-host Quadruple board certified doctor Internal Medicine Pulmonary Disease Critical. Care and neuro critical. Care my very good friend Dr Steven Tailback. How You Doing Steve? Hey Bill could be nice to the doctor. Steve has been working fifteen hour days running the ICU at Providence Medical Center and ensures reassuring knowing we've got someone like Steve on the front lines of this battle every day. Thank you for making time for this today and thank You for devoting yourself to that. 'cause it's my pleasure. Our guest today is zooming in from Ground Zero in New York City. Dr Verlander Sing is chairman of cardiovascular medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital Group in New York. He's secretary of the Lenox Hill Medical Board and he's an assistant professor of cardiology at the school of medicine and senior vice president of cardiology in the western region for all of the Northwest Health Group. Which is the corporate entity for twenty three hospitals including excel? I'm sure that I'm missing something. But thank you so much for joining us today. Verlander thank you very much for having me on one of the things that they feel like we should cover now the doctor seeing that you have kind of a unique perspective on this disease both from the treatment side as well as your own personal experience. Can you tell us a little about that? I contracted cove in the middle of March. I had it For two weeks you know I have to tell you that Two things work with this disease. They really do basically works right. Stay isolated and the other thing that works as peaky when we're looking at our conversion rates for our doctors and our frontline workers Appropriate use of PD well used. We have less than six percent conversion rate but we still have the six percent conversion rate and. I'm pretty sure that's probably what happened to me on the frontlines and I kind of look at my cove illness. I looked at all COVADONGA MRS as either. You're really sick or you're not that sick right if like define line And and if you survive it Categorize you in the. You weren't that sick because I've seen enough and I think Steve is probably seen enough to know that people that really do get sick with the system do well. Where were you one of the guys that just had Hardly anything as far as symptoms are concerned or did you have some serious symptoms. Woke up on Tuesday Tuesday night. I felt a little headache. And that's one of the known presenting symptoms of it Again I didn't think anything of it I just was like. Are you have been working a lot doing a lot of the frontline shift? Someone who are a lot of strange physical and emotional and I woke up. The next morning was a Wednesday morning and I felt viral right. My eyes were puffy. They were watery I had congestion and I knew enough that I should not go to work. I assumed I was. I went and got tested. They did a chest X ray. Did the blood work and all emergency rooms right now. This is something that the public should know. You know we are covert contained and are pathways for evaluation in American healthcare. Right now are done scientifically. They're done through epidemiology so that you are actually at a low risk of getting Kovic seeking medical care and that is very very important because I think a lot of people believe. Oh my God. All those patients are in that building and if I walk in there that's where I'm actually GonNa get it and that's not true. I did what everybody should be doing. Is I went to the emergency room? They had a whole pathway screen me before I even got in. The building put me in a pathway. Which was the viral evaluation pathway Got Tested got chest. X Rays Saturation's You know positive. And we felt like I could manage myself at home. I can tell you that about four five days into it. I could not remember what I had done five minutes ago. So this is important because we clearly know that the five to eight day window from the original diagnosis is a critical period of time. Seed you seen this. I've seen this people doing much better much better. They crash boom. Bang inflammatory response and so. I actually got into an argument one week into it with my employees health director from the from my home self-isolated saying. I'm ready to come back to work. And she was like no. You're not on not clearing and I said it's been a week. I have seventy two hours. No fever no cough. I WANNA come back to work. No she was great and our after that phone call. It came back on and it came back on the much much worse than it did. The first time and a wound up in the air the next day. severely dehydrated. I've never been dehydrated in my life. They gave me fluid bag after bag and I was like I need another one. You know what my own body was saying to me. You need more of this Listen you always become a better doctor? When you're a patient you learn more empathy. You learn what's going on in somebody's head fear anxiety. It's the same questions I had the same off of like while I still got a big run left the I. I'm not ready to go yet. All the things that every one of us thinks about ourselves they think about and makes you more empathetic and compassionate. Tell us a little of how it makes you feel as doctors in the middle of this thing as you see us opening up with a higher base of infected people then we had even when we locked down in the first place. I don't think we've we've been hit nearly as hard as New York cavs. I'm actually very concerned embracing for major impact and very frustrated with the concept that people feel that it's okay to start opening businesses and re assimilate into society the higher density of the virus. I think makes may much more dangerous than it was in February. The fact that people have basically had enough with social distancing masking and their frustration which will cause them to be even more lax than maybe they were before I think creates a potentially very dangerous set of circumstances and I think our hospitals will have a huge surge like we had initially but now with a base of patients who already have the disease. But if you're GONNA add a sudden peak to that we are going to feel that pressure. Healthcare professionals will be at risk and patients will will not be able to get the services that they need and that's at our level in Los Angeles so what. How do you feel doctor saying? I can't imagine the pressure that you guys are under right now. At one point we had over four hundred forty patients in the hospital. We would like to think that what we learned early on and disseminated nationally and internationally helped you guys of we. I know that I was on multiple chat groups that first week with physicians all over the East Coast positions the midwest physicians on the West Coast. And we still kept those going. Those first six weeks of this were awful. Will you subject to some of the shortages that we all saw on the CUOMO press conferences? We knew we were at just enough levels. And so every day you would wake up and you come in and you'd say how many people are under investigation. The merchants from how many people came in and it was just every day more and more and more and then we were scrambling to get stuff we had people donating to be. We had people Donating whatever they could do to help us get what we needed to get through. It was overwhelming and it still remains overwhelming a steve. You've seen this. When they first started coming in the people that were discharging home right because we were filled is we were trying to triage people to stay at home and call them to see how they were doing. And we all talk about it. You know some fifty five year old guy who comes in with a bilateral pneumonia and has a PO. To set of ninety four. In the PRE COVID era hundred percent would have gotten admitted right just for his own medical health and just because we were scrambling and we did an amazing job of like built making bets every night every night every day we were vets but we would try and manage a lot of those patients at home call them and follow them and make sure that they were doing okay Just doing that early on was you realized that we were into something that we've never done before. Cassie how many ventilators you have it at Lenox Hill. I don't know the exact number but I can get it for you. Know it's interesting. Everyone talks about. Do you have an ventilators? We have capacity of one hundred ventilators but it always say and who is gonNA run one hundred ventilators. The the rate limiting step on that is not the number ventilators at least in in our institutions. We have an ICU. Team of seven people. We could expand that ever so slightly. Are We then going to say seven? Doctors are going to be running a hundred ventilators not to mention all the other consoles on the floor. Know How big your team was doctor saying Atlantic Sill but you had four hundred in house. You said half were critically ill how. What kind of staff did you have to cover that kind of volume? So we had three levels of care we had a a regional floor than stepping up to telly. Covert floor and then the ICU. So sick pretty sick and then really really sick. So that's kind of how we vote them up. We have just to get back. To Your your question we have seventy four ventilate onsite right. Now in Steve's absolutely right we thought ventilator ventilator ventilator. Let's get layers. We learn quickly that you don't want ventilators right. You need them to support people but you want to try and people off of the ventilator as much as you can because being on a ventilator was you may not have gotten off of the ventilator. That's when you were really really really sick so all the things that you guys are doing that we were doing you know. It was absolutely amazing to see how many people we could just keep off of the ventilator from doing things that simple ronin putting them on their valley but in high flow masks on them. That's what we tried to do early on. And that's what we're still trying to keep them off to the vet and the weird thing is that it was learn as you go because initially the idea was let's not to heated high flow because that's going to increase Arizona's -ation and so you go from droplet aerosol precautions so puts a higher risk for your healthcare staff so the initial recommendation was well. Let's intubate these early because otherwise you know they're going to be coughing. They're going to be on high flow just put on event and then what we're finding that people events not doing so well best to keep them off the vent if you can and so we've done one eighty when his come to innovation. Let's dive into verrender specialty for a minute because one of the things that is pretty clear by what we hear out in the press. Is that people with heart. Disease have a much higher risk of developing a serious illness from covert Dr Singh. Why is that so clearly if you have underlying heart disease if you had underlying one disease and you've got covert and you got a bad case of it? You just did not do well. I think it's because people who were who had underlying disease had less reserved. The virus intern had some effects on the heart muscle itself In some patients where it caused a direct myocarditis but inflammatory reaction people who are earlier any art failure whether it was the type of heart failure. Where Your Heart? Muscle is not weakened but it's just squeezing fine but his stiff any history of our failure you got. You did not do well. They also say that having high blood pressure leads to more serious cova illness having hypertension can make your heart more stiff right. It's so hard does two things at squeezes and then it needs to relax the let more blood in of people that have a hypertension often times have no problem sweeping and getting blood out of their heart but then their heart tally get stiff and so that they can't relax it. As much in open that's known as DIASTOLIC HEART. Failure people that hypertension were more likely to have a diastolic heart? Failure and people had heart. Failure had a much worse outcome. With their covert infections this susceptibility issue. Certainly with diabetics and people with good connective. Tissue Diseases like Lupus. They have a suppressed immune system so they have an increased likelihood of contracting the disease to begin with then on top of that this. They're what we call. The Co Morbidity sees where they already have underlying heart failure and limited reserve as Dr Singh was referring to within not only have an increased likelihood of contracting the disease but you also have a much greater likelihood of doing poorly once. You get the disease. So it's kind of a double hit phenomenon on that note We're GONNA take a quick break. We'll be right back L. Elo out there. This is Jenny. Curtis I am a podcast producer at Kirk Co media and I am currently sitting alone in a very empty podcast studio surrounded by hand sanitizer. And I'm recording this in an effort to reach out. It's not an easy time right now. We don't know what the day to day is going to look like for the next few weeks even months so I'm proposing something. Let's all make something together. Kirk media has launched. A podcast called a moment of your time. These are bite sized episodes and each one features you out there good dot com slash a moment of your time for more information. We may have to stay apart. Let's create together. We're back with Dr Vrinda saying and Dr Steven taback talking about some of the some of the effects of covert in what we're doing about it to Dr Sanguine someone's in the hospital and they're a covert patient and their positive and perhaps they're in the ICU and there's there because their heart condition has led to a more serious illness with covert. Do you get called in on such cases or are they really just being treated for covert at that point? Yeah that's actually a very good question and a very good point. I think Kovic was the the leading diagnosis covid. Was what we were treating one two and three The patients that did develop a myocarditis. We might have gotten called in to see if we could do a support device or even consider at Mora L. bad some of these advanced support devices. The good news was very few patients that required that The bad news. Was that if you have to go down that pathway you're not going to do. It was really covid. That's what we're treating Kobe. Long support oxygenation. Have you change your strategy? At all relative to cardiac illness when Cobra's involved versus some other maybe viral myocarditis or viral cardiomyopathy or other forms of cardiomyopathy. Has Your have your strategies changed. What have you learned so far? So we've learned From the cardiac effects of Kobe. There were three buckets right so some patients leaked your own and trombone is the first marker for damage to your. Heart Muscle Often times when people are I'm heart attacks. That's one of the markers that will cease. Start showing up in the blood Proponents were elevated in Cova positive patients. The second group of patients was really this group of patients which we learned very early on their. Ekg's looked like an acute heart attack. Look I guess the allegations and we would take them to the lab and people were taking them to the Cath lab doing Nance ribs and there was no significant stretch. So there was this. Ekg evidence of a heart attack we went down to our normal pathways is going to be a blocked. Artery would open it and we've noticed that there wasn't any major walk inches and then the third bucket is the most severe bucket the one that I just alluded to when people had direct mile card ideas from it direct myocarditis in the setting of critically. Ill patient multi-system failure as you know. Steve. Those patients don't do whether it's the flu or covet or RSV or any other systemic viral homes. We've we've realized that there's a hyper coagulate. -bility there's a high tendency of blood clotting with KOGA PATIENTS. Have you been able to correlate those changes in the St Segments and those that looked like a possible Amount Cardi UNFORTUN- To those patients. Who also were hyper questionable? Or is there not really relationship there? We saw it to write this whole idea where we were seeing patients developing. Ddt's then we're seeing the strokes right. People were starting to have some strokes and even some coronary thromboses. So we also recognize if there was something hyper questionable going on here so when we took these people to the Cath Lab. We were sure that we're GONNA see thrombosis from lesion in the property and we didn't especially I think the multi system organ failure. You know more than any other disease that I have seen. Thus far seems to be a part related to this hyper. Kaga process squeeze. We've had people actually who you think are turning the corner from the respiratory standpoint and you're thinking you know what this person is actually made actually come through because like you say life and death sort of depends on the lungs for most of these patients and if your lung survive the patient will survive and yet next thing you know. The patient is showered with multiple cerebral infarction no and Or they suddenly go into this cardiomyopathy that that does the men or they have a massive ee. I mean we saw get people were doing great doing great and then boom massive right. So it's you're always you're you're more fragile than you think. Under these circumstances and you can usually get lulled into the sense of security that they seem to be coming off the ventilator oxygenation seems to be better and then you get this other you know the second hit of thrombosis events it's fascinating terrifying and it you feel. It's so funny eventually. I'm sure that they will look back as we look back now on. Woo Vanek Plague and say Oh my God. All they needed was a little pencil. And and you know you're sitting pestis has gone. I mean this diseases over with no and look at the millions of people who died and I'm sure it's important time Our technology will catch up with you. Know the the mysteries of virology and these will all be you know a historical you know fascinations but for right now. We really are struggling. You guys hear that in the background to that's The New York City seven. Pm Salute to healthcare workers. How Wonderful Pretty Amazing? It's the best part of day. Open your window. Then let's hear yes. And every day on that corner on seventy seven and Lexington somebody a restaurant or an entertainer or somebody does something new and special for all the front line workers. Very amazing fading away. Now that's very touching. That's amazing parental. What do you think is GonNa be your view of New York City going forward? How are you going to be dealing with the emotional backlash to the The feeling that well you knew a lot of people in new you talk to a restaurant tour or a waiter and chances are they knew somebody who was hit by Cova. How is this going to affect the city so I lived in New York through nine nine eleven? You knew somebody who knew somebody who may have known someone here. Every one of us is going to be directly affect everybody's GONNA to know somebody everybody's GonNa have lost somebody that was close to them or in their life directly the psychological effects of that morning coupled with the unknown of this. 'cause we start living again right we got. We have to get force ourselves out there. I don't know how that's going to happen. Wire all my buddies calling me all the time asking me. If we're going to have a football six part of it is they're looking for normal part of it is. They're looking for some science some insight. The question they should be asking is. How are we going to have any sporting events Susan? They want to know what we think. Scientifically how it can happen and I think emotionally you guys you guys have been on the head not just for our frontline workers but for all of us. I mean we just went through something. We haven't been through in a hundred years as a country that doesn't just go away unit sinks in and it takes time for you to process it it in and deal with it and it's so global you know it's like you want to escape. Where are you going to go? The Moon is the only place you can go right. I mean there's nowhere on this planet where you really escape us. Well quite quite a change doctor Singh as we open up society but especially in New York City. I just need to get your perspective about schools. Elementary schools through high school. How do you deal with what has always been a bit of a a a viral party in elementary schools? Where it's all brought home to your parents. Had he a deal with opening up those schools again in New York City. I'll answer your question of by saying it shouldn't just be about schools. It should be about how we're going to actually re-engage in every aspect of our lives. The days of me. Going to my pediatrician. Taking my kids for a preschool clearance sitting in a room of thirty other kids in a petri dish waiting to see. That's over so I think we we have to really look at every single mass congregation thing that we have in subside and we have to look at them. Different know look at schools and how you know socially distance those kids how GonNa Monitor those kids right. How am I looking at my own offices at my office? We TOOK HALF OF THE EXAM. Chairs out of the examines. Okay the in the Waiting Area so okay. A resource Plexiglass up there. If you're in a community that the offices as a parking lot don't wait in the doctor's office even if the doctor tells you to wait in the doctor's office say here's my cell phone of you're right outside my car perfectly isolated and when you need to call me. I'm not stepping to sign in with this pen. That's been signed in by eight hundred other people and it's never been white down you're GONNA we're GonNa do all that electronically before I come in there. I'M GONNA wait my car. You're GONNA call me. I'M GONNA Walk Right through. I'm to do what I need to do. And I'm out there. Were giving care with minimal exposure. That's the balance of everything going forward education. It's the same thing they have to educate with minimal exposure. I agree with you. I think early on during this process the way we're going to get back into community is by doing it slowly by distancing doing to distance continuing to be cautious. But I'm not sure that this warrants us being socially distanced forever. Well at least until we have a safe vaccine. I mean for the Knicks years. Clearly for this virus. You need to make sure that there is absolute safety going forward long term where we're going to be social beings. We're going to get back to life eventually but not prematurely. I agree one hundred percent. Once we have a vaccine truly some sort of preventative or a treatment. That's very effective that once you've got God forbid you get Covid we give you the silver bullet and occurs. You also reduces the gravity of of this particular infection. Nia but I kind of feel like we're at Mile Five in a twenty six miles a marathon. Exactly right we really shouldn't be looking at the finish line yet. We're not there yet. We're a long way way right. Yeah Look I. I love living in New York City. I Love I'm a New Yorker through and through I'm jaded New Yorker. I hate it and I love it. And what do I love about it? It's the energy what's the energy. It's all these people that love it the same way. The Restaurant Scene Walking Central Park. And that's density it is an density is our enemy when you're dealing with a virus so it's GonNa be so interesting to see how New York comes back and then there's the you know the human factor. Some people are in play the percentage and they're gonna be like I gotta live my life. Let's go out there and then there's GonNa be a group that's going to be like. I can't function knowing that I could get it out there. Under these circumstances at what point is a procedure considered somewhat elective or not like a stress test? If in a normal world if you would send a patient to get a stress test and find out how they were doing. Is that something we should keep doing right now? If it is not an emergency in New York state and you can't in your city came up right. You're still under a government decree that no elective procedures. So the only thing that we've actually up to do is what we call level three procedures defined as procedures if you're having a heart attack in the three four weeks ago during the Cova crisis and you walked into the emergency room. We treated you just like we did before the covert and now we're starting to get our tunes back although not at full strength so we can start to do the urgent cases if you needed a hip replacement because you're having chronic pain that's an elective procedures. There's nothing urgent about that. You're doing it for your comfort. It's necessary it's worthwhile but you need to wait. Because the risks versus benefits are certainly away doing that procedure at this time. If it's not risking life and limb to delay then you should delay it up. Tell you this we determined obstetrics is not elective. A woman in her twentieth of pregnancy gets seat of woman in her fortieth week of pregnancy. We made a determination that what see say it used to be emergent versus elected note. There's a whole spectrum in there. In obstetrics is not elected of people would say well this women's doing fine. She's with child that we need to continue the monitoring. Continue their medical care as we bring this show to a close. What is your prediction for? How your field is going to go over the next? Let's say six months nine months As we open things up how do you think it's GonNa go for the covid situation as well as your issue of people who are handling or not handling something that could be critical for them at a time where you really want to consider avoiding doctors and hospitals and that Penn at the drugstore that they make you sign the sheet with I think from a covert standpoint? It's widely reported our governor. Who's done a great job with his With his press conferences. If you look at the rates on our plateau were going down until the last two days you see the uptick so I believe that as we allow people to be out more as the weather is better we are going to have a reemergence of some more Kovic Cases Right. I think agree with you hundred or we're not. We are not ready to open yet. We are prepared and I get it. You have to people's Livelihood People's sanity is going up in smoke right now so what you have to be prepared to accept what's coming which is going to be a reemergence of this. How bad it is. I tell you one thing. We're going to be able to handle a lot. Better right. Steve WE ARE GONNA be able to test and a lot better. We'RE GONNA BE RIGHT. Quarantine a lot better worker able to source. We're slowly getting ahead of it. We were caught flat-footed. You know back in January February but now we are prepared. We know what to expect So we can handle the surge better than we could initially but I would not want us to be cavalier about this notion that you know because we understand it better and we don't understand that much but least because we understand what we need to do during a surge to help protect everybody that we should feel that we can be cavalier about opening At this juncture a huge reemergence. A surgery emergence. Whatever the nomenclature is is going to be devastating on multiple levels economically psychologically healthcare every level. So we have to be very very. That's my worry. A Chiro worry right me let everybody out and everybody's happy for a week and then we're miserable again for three months and history has shown that if you look back the Spanish flu nine hundred eighteen. They were complaining about the same things that were complaining about. We don't like the mass. There's too uncomfortable. Livelihoods are suffering because we're being sequestered and the second surge was deadlier than we're going to have to watch this closely We're going to have to pray for our family and friends. We're going to pray a lot for guys like you. Who are on the front lines. That are taking care of us in this tough time. Dr Verandas saying in Dr Steven Tailback. Thank you for coming in and zooming with us today. I hope that saying you'll come back and join us again. This was a wonderful and dynamic way to learn some tough things that we all need to thank you again. This is medicine where still practicing have a day. If you like what you hear please tell your friends and let us know how we're doing by leaving a comment. It really helps. If you give us a five star rating in we really appreciate it. You can also subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts. Stitcher or wherever you. Listen to your favorite podcast. This episode was produced and edited by Mike. Thomas Audio Engineering. Bhai Michael Kennedy and the theme music was composed and performed by Celeste and Eric. Thanks for listening Kirk Oh media media for your mind.
Black History Month: Emily Richmond and Maxie Jones
"Welcome to the moth podcast and your host this week. Our Thomas the sound studio in our office is under construction at the moment. So right now, we're coming to you from the Sundance TV podcast doodo at the Sundance film festival. This is a special black history month episode, and we have two stories for you. You may recognize my voice from October twenty eighteen squeaky wheels up Assode of the mob podcast. I told a story by writing an editorial about black. Here's your. Accidentally went super viral. If you missed it, you can find it on the mass dot org. I've also had the pleasure of hearing hundreds. If not thousands of off stories as the host of the story slams in DC and Philadelphia many of which today's stories are about density and race I up we have Emily Richmond. Here's Emily at a month story, slam in New Orleans. I was very smart when I was very young. And on the first day of fourth grade. My teacher brought us all together and said we were going to take spelling tests all day just sort of round Robin until you got two spelling word wrong. And then we'd know what level you were at. And I was the only kid in my class that got no words wrong. And because I went to a less than mediocre public school. Instead of giving me like tenth grade words or like twelfth grade words, they were just like you don't have to spell the rest of the year you've done it fourth grade, you've mastered. So needless to say, I was like feeling myself that day and my teacher came around a little bit later. It was like we're going to do just like a little. Survey that the school is having us fill out. Gama pen ready was ready to ace this thing. And the first thing I see on the sheet, which is like if you look like me lasting you honestly on sheet of paper, which is like please choose your race select only one and I am stumped. And I'm sitting there, and I feel sick. And I call my teacher over because I can't answer this question. And she does like the very lovely cancer and says like just choose whatever feels best which is not helpful. Because I don't know if that's all none any so she leaves, and I sit and I decide I'm going to approach this survey and read the questions first and see if I can like infer which race I should pick based on what the rest of the survey is asking and wants to know how many books I read it wants to know, how many hours I spend doing homework. How much junk food? I e and I can't am fourth grade. I can't like connect these things back to race in any way. And so I'm like surveying the room trying to find an answer. And to my left is my friend Ashley, and she's Asian, and we read the same books, and we same food and we'd drink same drinks and watch the same shows, and I looked to my right and on my right is my friend. Ashley who is white and she's blonde. And she and I read an e and drink all the same things. And I look over my shoulder and behind me, it's my friend Ashley, and she's brunette and she's not white. But you also not round something's definitely mixed in there. But for the purposes of my hometown, she's white, and we're all sort of the same person. And I can't figure it out. So I fill out the survey just as it is give all truthful answers. And I can't figure out the race thing. My teacher finally comes over and says sorta like we got to wrap it up. You gotta just like choose one. And so I answered it, truthfully. And I feel like if I can't answer black because that feels like ally no wanted to deny my I can't deny my parent. I can't choose white that feels like ally. It kind of doesn't matter what I choose. So I just fill in a circle, and I send it off. And I wait anxiously for someone to come in and say you ruin the study you've failed. It you lie. Your race was wrong, and nobody comes in. And my teaser doesn't scold me and nothing happens. And so then the next time survey comes along I try my look again I pick another race. I lie about how many books Irene. And I send that survey off and nobody comes in. Nobody scolds me, and I realize it doesn't fucking matter. And so I was like a little bit older. And my hometown is like very why and kinda racist for being in New England. And I'm starting to understand how the world works. I'm starting to resent these surveys because I feel like they're playing into some weird stereotypes that are coming back at me as one of the only Brown people in my town as those surveys star coming I start like poring, my like anger into these surveys. And I'm just like, you know, what I think I know what you want me to say. So they I'm black and I only read books, and I never watch TV. And I don't eat junk food because buck you. And then the next time. I get a survey. I see that I'm white and all I do is the junk food, and I smoked twelve packs of cigarettes a day, and I stare at the ceiling, and I hang out with boys, and I drink all Ida back. You back you on these surveys. And so that has a little bit older and a little older, my dad's sort of notices me and says to me you most proud mixed person. I have ever met in my life. And I tell him it's true. I'm very excited to be black. I'm very excited to be white. I love being mixed. It's one occasion. Where one in one makes three. But I realized that as much as I hate checking those boxes, and I still do even on that little release even though we can check as many as apply, which is lovely. I don't like checking the boxes but having to face that box over and over and over again really helped me to think outside of it. Really richmond. And we is a writer based in New Orleans, Louisiana. You can find her monthly at a moth story slam or telling jokes and stories into microphones other shows around the Nola area up next. We have Maxie Jones with a story that takes place in Harlem, New York, the night of the two thousand eight election. Here's maxie. My father maxi Jones senior came to Harlem in the nineteen fifties from Prentiss Mississippi. And I remember one time when he took me down here for visit. We were driving down to main street and Prentice and up ahead. We saw at the traffic light to Ku Klux Klan, we handing out flyers to drivers. They were handing the flyers only to the white drivers. They were in full KKK garb. They had the hoods the gowns everything. As we drew closer to them. The better you could see there is rolling around in those little holes in the hoods. I had only seen him on TV prior to that. It's a lot different in person. They gave a fly to the driver in front of us said he eagle, ma'am. White power. Then they looked at us. And I was scared because I was wondering what they were going to say to us, but they didn't say anything they just walked right past went to the car behind us and said, hey, go, sir. White power. And as we drove off asked my father said dad, how could they do that in broad daylight? Just like that right in front of us. My father said maxi, just sit still and keep quiet. And I felt that he should be angry like I was angry but for him it was just normal. My father never talked about politics politics to me, and I don't even know if he ever voted. The only thing he ever said to me about politics was. She. Because that's how he started off everything. He said she don't matter who the president is going to known for us. No way. And I understood why he felt that way because he grew up in the world where in politics back folks, just didn't matter. When I was a kid. My mother is telling me maxi, you could be anything you want to be. She says shoot you could be president of the United States. If you want to and I never really believed it I thought that was really saying was you could try to be the president and you'll land somewhere. When I was about ten years old. I remember when Nixon beat McGovern in the presidential election by what seemed like just a few votes and the next day. My social studies teachers came in and she said, I can't believe he won. I just can't believe it. If more people had come out to vote, he wouldn't know won that election, and it was from her that I learned that people don't show up to vote just to put someone into office you show up to vote. Also, keep somebody out. The year. I turned eighteen just happen to beat them an election year and voted that year because I was excited even though my candidate didn't win and ever since. Then I've never miss an opportunity. In two thousand seven my father passed away and roundabout that time I started hearing about this Senator from Illinois named Barack Obama who threw his hat in the ring for the president for the presidency. Now, my first thought was that was one of those situations where I know I'm not going to win. But at least we could get people used to the idea of a black man being president. Not knowing my father would say he would go. She. You ain't gonna see. No black president in your lifetime. And based on that. I thought ain't no way. This guy's going to win. On election day, two thousand eight I had to be to work at eight o'clock that morning, and I heard the polls opened up at six o'clock. So I got up early sock. Could be the first one down there. It was at Gladys Hampton houses, right though. And Saint Nicholas avenue, so I got up, and I went there, and I was shocked to find the place was crowded already people had been lined up from early to vote and is not like any other election where you just standing in line waiting to vote people were celebrating and everybody was talking like they knew each other one guy had his kids with him. He was like I brought my kids for this historic moment. And there was this other lady who said this is one time I made sure to get out to vote. But for me, it was just business. The reason I was voting was to make sure that if Barack Obama didn't win it wasn't going to be because I didn't vote. Took me about an hour and fifteen minutes, and then I was on my way to work, and I called my friends, Cheryl because it was her birthday. And when I called it. She said maxi guess what I just had the best birthday ever. I said what does that she says, I just voted for a black man for presidency on my birthday. I said well good. The wanna hang up the phone. I said well, at least she got the vote for him. Then I went to work, and when I was at work, all my coworkers were talking about making sure they got out to vote and people were actually asking for time off. So that they could make sure that they had time to vote before they go going, home and everywhere, I turn people were talking about voting. And after a while, I actually started to feel some hope. I said, maybe it guy. Obama cooed win this election. So when I got home night, even in the first thing, I did was turn on my TV. And I looked and I was like, oh shoe. Just dude is winning. So I stayed glued to my set. After that. Now normally whenever I vote I just wait till the next morning to find out what the results are. But this time I wanted to know right away. So I called my friend Martin I said Martin when do we find out who won the election? He laughed at me and say to eleven o'clock. So I said all right. I was sitting in watching and then those off to sleep. And I woke up to chance of yes, we can. Yes, we can. And I was looking at the TV, and they were showing this huge crowd in Washington. DC didn't they showed this huge crowd in Chicago, Illinois, and then they showed huge crowd in Harlem. House like how I see no crowd in Harlem. Wiz that crowd. Now two doors from my apartment there was a Barack Obama campaign office. So I said, well, maybe they're out there. So I decided to go outside and see now by this time I had on a pair of sweat that. I only wear to bed. But I figured no one's going to notice. So I just do want a leather jacket and went outside when I got outside. There was nobody there. So I said well, nobody's here. Maybe you're on one hundred twenty fifth street. So I started walking down to one hundred twenty fifth street when I got to one hundred twenty fifth street. I looked Wes I saw nothing down look east towards seventh avenue, and I saw these bright lights and this huge crowd. So I said I wonder if that's the crowd on TV. So I went over there to see and as I approached seventh avenue there was this huge stage setup right there on the corner one hundred twenty fifth street and seventh avenue and celebrities on the stage talking to the crowd, and they had the crowd chanting. Yes. We can. Yes, we can. And when I got there, I saw this huge Jumbotron set up, and they were showing up to the minute coverage of the election, and every time it showed Barack winning in another state the crowd cheered. Yes. We can. Yes. We can. The police were trying to keep the traffic moving on one hundred twenty fifth street, but it was almost impossible because people were jumping out of their cars, screaming OPA. I saw one of my neighbors. Lisa, and I went over to say, hi. And she just started crying. She said, I can't believe this. I can't believe in what she said a black man is about to be president of the United States. And the moment she said that the college just erupted, and I turned around to see what was going on. And the Jumbotron said Barack Obama elective forty fourth president of the United States. And right, then a total stranger just hugged me say, we did it. We did it. We did it. And then next thing, you know, nother stranger hug me, and we were jumping up down. We did it. We did it we did. And then suddenly I thought we did I wonder what my father would think about this. And at that moment, a tears start rolling down my face and step aside outside of the crowd. And I said well, dad. I'm sorry. It didn't happen in your lifetime. But thank goodness is happening in mind. Just in my cell phone rang. And it was my my friend Kelly. She said maxi where are you at? I said I'm one hundred twenty fifth street come here. Let's have a dream as she came and met me. They said, okay. Where are we going? And I said, let's go to lenox lounge, and what better place to be at this moment than lenox lounge restarted walk into the lenox lounge and we pass by the next avenue subway station and people were coming up in droves off the subway ought to one hundred twenty fifth street, and they were just hugging people. Everybody would just hugging. Each other. I must have hugged about fifty more strangers. Then we got to lenox lounge and as soon as I stepped in the door a man pushed me in a slam the door behind me and said, that's it recognise city, and I felt lucky to be inside the place was packed ahead. Young people old people black people white people, rich and poor. Everybody was in there. Just celebrate having a great time. People were dressed up in formal wear. And I had on my JAMA sweats. And the place was boisterous and people were celebrating all of a sudden a hush came over to whole room when Obama came out to make his acceptance speech, and even though I'll listening to the speech I was looking around the room and everybody was just captivated and hanging onto his every word. And then suddenly he said change has come the whole room erupted again at people started, celebrating some more. And then when all the celebration was over I stepped back out onto lenox avenue, and people were still all in the streets cars are blowing their horn trying to get through I turn and I saw a Dixieland band. Come in toward me. I said it's data Dixieland band. Somebody said, yeah, I was like, okay. This is just a dream. So I started walking home across a hundred twenty fifth street. The sun was coming up. Accrue was dismantling stage taken down, the Jumbotron. I stepped into a Bodega picked up the newspaper, tucked it under my arm and went on home. When I got home, I found I had left my door unlocked. The TV was to lawn the lights were still loan and I sat down and I said. Did this really just happened? Is a black man really the president of the United States. Was that a Dixieland band? Took the newspaper and went to set it down on the coffee table and read the headline for the very first time. And it said change has come. And I said, yes. It has. Thank you. Jones discovered them off when he moved from New York City to Michigan in two thousand twelve since then he's told over sixty stories moth stages in Detroit in Arbor, New York, maxi says he has plenty more stories to tell and doesn't plan on stopping until he's told them all thinking back on this particular story. He tells us quote, many of my phone just memories are living in Harlem and being so close while the action centered around African American people making history that's gonna do it this time around, but we'll be back again soon with more stories until then have a story worthy week. Our Thomas is a playwright and longtime host and storyteller with the mall. He's also a senior staff writer for L dot com, where he writes, Eric reads, the news daily, current events and culture column his debut memoir in essays entitled cheer for it. It will be published by Valentine books in early twenty twenty podcast production by Julia pursell especial. Thanks to see him hacker. Gavin Allen, I'm the team at Sundance TV for. Being this episode possible. The moth podcast is presented by X. The public radio exchange helping make public radio more public at PX dot org.
Full Circle Weekly News #154
"You're listening to full circle. Weekly News News Items are compiled by. Aren't food while breath and delivered by me. Your host Leo Chop this episode covers the twenty eighth of October to the third of November twenty nineteen. PHP Remote Code Execution Flaw actively exploited against engine x servers this flaw X.. Engine x servers running HP and the PHP FPM module a crafted http get request paired with a command is all that is required to exploit this flaw as always the best mitigation will be to upgrade upgrade to a non vulnerable version of PHP those include seven dot three dot eleven seven dot to dot twenty four seven dot one dot thirty three Fidora thirty-one released with genome three dot. Thirty four and Lennox five dot three. This version of Fedora will be the first official release to drop support for thirty two bit installations. Thirty one. Also disables root password logging over. SSh improves the Fedora toolbox. Introduces Google noto Fonts Fire Fox on Waylon by default ends. Es Td compression for faster. Updating automated testing comes to the Lenox colonel recently recently becoming a Lennox Foundation project colonel. Ci Testing Framework is now the agreed upon standard by many of the top Lennox developers. Colonel See I will automate testing on the variety of hardware and reduce duplication of effort by trimming down the amount of testing projects further. Ill provide a single place to compare and keep track of all results GAM to dot ten fourteen released of note in this release is a show all option that allows the editor to show an edit. The the image beyond the canvas boundary and newly loaded images without PPI information will be defaulted to seventy two PPI Lennox Lennox meant nineteen dot three announced this version of Lennox code-named Tricia will move the Ubuntu LTS based district to the hardware enablement stack meaning. It will see see Colonel Five dot zero and X or one dot twenty celluloid video player as well as g note replaced. VOC and Tomboy respectively the X. FC e edition we'll see the desktop environment upgraded to four fourteen and a new grub menu and boots splash. Green will be available while no official data set. The upgrade is promised to arrive. Have sometime before Christmas. Lynn Spire eight dot five released based on into eighteen. O Four dot three and code-named swordfish fish to this version is a new major release. The OS tackles the bloated state of software that was brought up by the community by picking best of breed applications including proprietary. Hi Terry Codex Katie. Five twelve dot nineteen is the updated default desktop environment. A Boon to touch installer now supports oneplus three and Sony experience phones as a follow up to episode one fifty three Maurice Grips Guard on twitter said of the new devices you can now install arm sixty four to touch on one plus three and Sony experience with the installer. You must be aware that it's still not ready. It has a few bugs and the image is only available on the edge channel which means it can break at any time for any reason. This has been another episode. Kosova Full Circle Weekly News for more news and ramblings find me at Leo Chavez Dot Org Follow me on twitter at Leo Java's or hear me and my fellow co hosts on mint cast. And well see you next week.
Listening vs downloads over the past few weeks
"The latest from our newsletter palled news dot net downloads. It down this name as down more so says Johnson unlike other download numbers that we've linked to so far chargeable also has access to spotify and apple podcast listening data which you'd aggregate into its platform listening. They say has dropped off much more than downloads. Half this is likely because many podcast. Apps like Apple. Podcasts will continue downloading podcast episodes. Even if they're not actually played the number of reviews there's also dramatically trump's downloads over cellular networks. There is a slow recovery on the way though by way of balance. Count Yourself. Lucky you're not trying to sell out of home. Advertising out of home spend in China was down by ninety percent in January. It is now recovering. So drop twenty percent or so in podcast. Consumption perhaps almost nothing worth worrying about conversely morning consult claims eighteen percent of. Us adults listening to podcasts. More than they did before they started social distancing itself isolating according to a poll. We linked to the full data from our show notes and our newsletter. Today order is a free open source podcasts player for windows my call Lenox Stephan contact us and breathlessly says after playing around with it for ten minutes. It's by far the best desktop. Podcast player. I've recently tried. We reported in February that former. Us presidential candidate Andrew. Yang was to launch a podcast. He signed with cadence. Thirteen podcast to Yang speaks will be released in May Forbes Street Studios sydney-based to podcast studio has launched a remote podcasting recording service which is quite neat fireside has added bulk episode editing spam filtering of content forms a new help system the AP has moved New Fronts that publisher showcase event optimistically to June. The twenty second and we applaud the Guardian for their dark humor behind their podcast list. Ical some shapeless week. Ten of the best travel podcasts. Yeah go on RUB it. In in Polka News radio DOT COM has released. Its Top ten most listened to if you're interested the number one is unlocking asks either. The platform doesn't carry Joe Rogan for the world's gone wrong because he doesn't appear in the top ten at all. Joe Biden's own podcast. Here's the deal is much loved by the Washington Post but does get some critique from mark good birdie could do better on. Seo It seems. It's one of sixteen podcasts. By the way called his the deal the art work for keep away corona. Looks like it's been designed by five year old it has it turns out the host. His Albie who's five lives in Chicago and is the subject of ATV news. Report does CORONA VIRUS UPDATE MIT. A Christian Dresden is apparently Germany's number one podcast according to NPR at least took three days from conception to production all things equal start season three. The new season is about technology and human rights with the first episode focusing on digital privacy and Robin INS- off the infinite. Monkey cage is hosting a comedy quiz. Show the novel game developed with the late. Nicholas Parsons it runs for seven weeks and recorded in front of a live studio audience which you can't say very much these days and there's plenty more and all the links in our newsletter subscribe at Pod News Dot net.
Full Circle Weekly News #150
"You're listening to full circle. Weekly News News items are compiled by armed freed while Breck and delivered by me. Your host Leo Challenge. This episode covers the thirtieth of September through the sixth of October. Twenty Nineteen Lennox men Debbie in addition four to be dubbed. Debbie no released for Debbie is available yet however work is being done to complete the X.. APP Status icon. API API to make it easier to create Aplin both cinnamon and Metais work for nineteen dot three the next version of the main version of it is also underway and finally a new logo ago that drops the leaf design for a more. Modern look is showcased. The new next cloud seventeen brings remote wipe this feature will allow administrators administrators to clean data from still misplaced devices next log text using. Markdown allows real time collaboration. As well as syntax highlighting an access to the next loud sidebar other features include watermarking next cloud talk new two factor setup and held up rights support Flat flat-pack. One point five rolls out with new features these features include the new or update option to be used during installation of a flat. Pack that will update date the package. If it's already installed us can now mask or pin versions of software to prevent updates altogether and flat pack now support self updating and better monitoring of updates in progress ca libra open source e book management APP gets major release after two years this. This version sees a migration from the deprecated Cutie Web Kit to the newer Cutie web engine which gives rise to a completely rewritten e book reader a modified pdf output feature and faster less resource intensive book details panel every effort to retain backwards. Compatibility has been made but incompatibilities will exist. Lanus Torvald to add lockdown security feature in Lenox Colonel Five dot four proposed by Matthew Garrett a a Google engineer back in two thousand ten this feature would prevent a root account from changing kernel code after much discussion forums and mailing lists the feature will be added but disabled disabled by default to lockdown parameters do the heavy lifting integrity will disable the user's ability to modify a running kernel and confidentiality which prevents prevents a user from extracting confidential information from the colonel canonical releases. Major Colonel Security Update for nineteen o four and eighteen o four this major patsies fixes for Wi fi. GTC Oh input usb audio and other device drivers which could allow attackers within range. The ability to expose information crashed the system or even execute code this update effects. You on the five dot O.. Colonel in supported versions of a boon to and available at the time of this recording all users should upgrade as soon as feasible. This has been another episode of Full Circle. Weekly News for more news and ramblings find me at Leo Java's Dot Org Follow me on twitter at Leo Java's or hear me and my fellow co hosts on mint cast. And I'll see you next week.
329: At Least 32-Bits, Thank You
"Welcome to embedded I am in the white I am alongside Christopher White and our guest. This week is Kate. Stewart of the Lennox Foundation Ryan talk about the Zephyr Artas. Welcome thank you very much for inviting me looking forward to talking with you on this one. Could you tell us about yourself as though we met at an embedded systems conference? You probably will see me at some of those yes. I've been working in software for about thirty years and for over fifteen and have been involved with embedded links conferences for several of those years. As well as plumbers conference so I tend to be focusing on the embedded side of the technology space and helping to see what's emerging Make you a little bit better started. I started pretty much for compilers way back when and have Like to be between the software and the hardware interfaces and working with the hardware. So that's kind of my happy spot and Zephyr is one of the projects that I'm working with at the Lewis Foundation. I'm a strategic director there and we're basically looking at how we can apply the best practices into An open source project that can be used when Lennox is just too big. 'cause Lennox doesn't get much smaller than to make these station. Suffer is how do we make sure we have a good place for people to collaborate that was served emotions behind it. So that's when the projects that work with and I have lots of questions about differ metoo but before we do that we wanna do lightning round where we ask you short questions and we want short answers and if we're behaving ourselves we won't say why how are you sure already. Okay okay go for it. Should we bring back a dinosaur's no compiler question what's your favorite token Anne language? He wouldn't have favorite token semi colon. Action are full. Actually no one of the projects I worked with something called the credit and What it does is replays. Get history for a log. And instead of storing things line-by-line chain stores took my token changes and semi Colon Test. Rivera useful figuring out You know where statements in logical syntax elements so I. Yes tokens cool till I to complete one project started dozen started doesn't do you have a favorite processor That will get me in trouble. I to be neutral. What Planet or moon would you visit? If you could Earth's moon I'd love to see the view in the other direction as a short trail disease those that may even happened. You know within our lifetimes. Do you have a tip? Everyone should now Tip Everyone should know always assume that people are trying the best and don't assume people are being malicious when they're irritating you good tip for getting along in the world well in open source projects. We know there's issues with trolls and usually it's just a matter of sitting down and really understanding what they're doing and try and make sure the empathy happens so community building is something that's in some ways and I think we're figuring out some things we still a long way to go and other places and since we're all remote these days with Kovic we're doing more of the type of community stuff that we usually do online and more the community. More of the wider population is going to start to experience. What we tend to do online says Zephyr is it are these best practices related to community building or to code or both all of the above so with Zephyr. We looked at what was sort of working with Lenox in terms of processes Things like make it easy for people to contribute. Zephyr works with the do which is a developer certificate of origin. And that's the same that you lynn excuses where people sign off on their changes so they retained the copyrights to their changes. And that means that things don't get unpredictable for them based on who the copyright holder is or some. Cla's that have been signed things like that. So the next girls been very effective using that for twenty years. Twenty plus years and so that's like a good model for us to pick up and work from when we started the project off We wanted to make sure it was neutral governance so that one no one company controlled the entire project And so when we wrote up the governance stocks. We made it clear that you know we're keeping the decisions about finance and where we spend the money separate from the technical decisions which is another lesson we learnt from and we also have You know the concept of doing lt S.'s. Altius his are what their long-term stable releases. Okay and so. The colonel has various long-term steel release isn't generally that's what the distrust pick up to put products out on and it also is where other people take make products From and the idea with that is that there's one place that we can focus on making sure that the fixes their important go and if people wanNA serve do that. They're not constantly chasing a moving target and shifting interfaces so this gives them a bit of a of a stability that they can build their products on top of it. The same concept you see with like to write sixteen forest eighteen and twenty four. That just came up for that matter. Yes actually in my background. I was released manager for a couple of years about ten years ago now and so I learned a lot of lessons from that experience. It was very formative helped understanding what communities are when the working. Well when they're not and how to fire hazard navigate that side of it. So that was yeah. That's that's been very formative for me. And how do we make communities happen? And how do we keep people motivated and make it a good place for them to work in? There's a lot of things that I think that the two communities right so playing some of those leads in subtly has been something that we've been working towards. There's a few things that you know. The last community has that tried to. We're trying different paths for instance. We don't have like one dictator at the top of the pyramid We have maintainers We have TSE chair who serves fills that role in. That chair is elected every couple of years so we have continuity and you know maintaining the TSE. But it's different voices and it. Has You know the community has a chance to change over. And we've gone through a change in chairs already on the project in the same way in our governing boards. We also changed and everything's under election so it's the peers working with Their constituencies to have confidence in them activity. I'm sorry it's a technical staff technical steering committee. Okay okay so it's basically where the maintainers like with Lenox community where this maintainers over pieces of code and that's where they're sort of meeting and so we're adding something that's new or you know potentially controversial. That's where they served can meet to thrash out the differences. What's controversial I mean? What what kind of things can be controversial with the operating system? Oh well different. People have different proposals on how to do a certain piece of function and the network and things like that and so. It's you know discussing the pros and cons and figuring out what's going to be the best future so the right technical decisions can happen or if there's a couple of different approaches for doing things on security that's interesting whether the areas we're working on right now is what coating guidelines does the Zephyr community want to follow and that scenario where sort of tried to all come to agreement on specifically because we're gonNA be going after a safety certification as a project and so we'll have to comply with certain certain. The safety standards require this type of thing and having And having misra compliance is something. They're looking for so figuring at which rules were going to adhere to which we're GonNa make form step Shin and then making sure we have the tooling in place but when you start talking about how code is formed that gets people very passionate and you know we all WanNa make sure we can get zapped to that stage so we're looking at okay. How do we get the guidelines that everyone can live with in place? So that's I think queuing up for the TSE discussions right now. It's been in the safety committee until now this is this seems like a a lot of discussions but this is an actual operating system. It's not just about the organization is it. I mean is it is an operating system. Kernel is really a real time. Operating System is ever okay. Zephyr is a real time operating system and it has a reasonably complete stack around it now with a lot of peripherals the same way. Lennox has a lot of drivers and infrastructure. Zephyr very similar. In addition to the operating system there is Some infor infrastructure for building an ST K. Around it as well as West which is a built tool that we've created To support built plea modules in and out. Zephyr for organization purposes. So it is a true operating system It has been evolving and is lots and lots of code going in I just checked before I got on this. And there's now over forty thousand commencing Zephyr Repo and given that. The project opened opened up in. I guess about four years ago for an embedded project that's pretty spectacular with that rate of change. So been working that up. There's there's six hundred seventy two contributors right now and when I go and look at insights on get hung self As of today right now when I'm looking at it over one hundred twenty nine authors have pushed thirteen hundred commits to master in fourteen hundred commits or fourteen two nights to all branches and this is in the last month so in thirty days so to put it in perspective. I think we're averaging now Over one commit per hour and the lyrics colonel community the kernel itself the upstream. It's about Nine something nine point four. I think commits per hour active. So it's active so we're actually like say we're we're we've got an ice philosophy and a lot of the content is a lot of good features going in and a lot of polishing and people are finding a good place to do some you know to build from and then they contribute back. And so that's kind of thing makes it really quite exciting to see what's emerging You know one of the surprises for me with this project was when we were aiming for the court like you know the issues and m course for the arm processor as well as other architectures that embedded side and since we actually started. We've now got a whole very interesting range of architectures in here including the art course which was a logical one from the on the arm side but then of course has just started getting added. We started off with risk five thirty two at once and then to put a sixty four. Bit Risk five ported until It's been there since start. And it's been x eighty six and X and x sixty four and we're seeing things like open power coming in which you know. I would not have expected that to come into a sixty four power. Pc to come in to Embedded os like this. What's the reason to scale way up to the desktop class? Chips is it. I guess I don't. I haven't looked into his efforts architecture. That deeply but Is it a full process model? That can take advantage of 'em you or is it more like traditional threat ex and stuff like that now. It's a full process can take advantage of the news and I think the putting the the Some of the more desktop type of course in because they want to use Serving Mix systems right or they're using Zephyr to do a limited function but they're running on the same course as other and using other interfaces you know Lyrics may be on other cores and certain functions get partitioned between different course. So we're talking about a multi core system and running Zephyr on some of them. Yeah okay so one of the chips listed is the CORTEX zero which doesn't have an Emma Mu. How does differ? It seems like that's a dividing line like either you run APPS and you have a protected memory. Space for the absolute. You don't really run APPS. You run a colonel and a scheduler and you have tasks and processes. But they're not independent. How do you handle that? So what's up for has is it using the same K. configure infrastructure. That's in the Colonel. And it uses device tree. And so you're picking the parts you want to have working and you. That's what lets you actually can statically build it for a certain Footprint Zephyr Small Buddy Kaye. Okay and and you know once you start putting some of the communication decks obviously towards five twelve okay but we can do a lot of things in very small footprint and we do that by statically compiling what we need. But you'll see that the other work and the architectures and everything else electable. And that's what lets you have that flexibility. The flexibility is great. And you talked about the velocity and people committing as an embedded software engineer. I hate it when things change. That's why we have an ATS for you okay. So you can. You can basically say okay. None of my are going to change. It's going to be stable for the next two years. I can. Innovate on top of that. And then I can decide if I WANNA move to the next Celsius and when I see Zephyr is supported on a chip on the Zephyr page. What does that mean well? It means that the code is in the Repo and that there are a certain amount of testing. That's been done that. It's building and so forth. Some of them are different stages of completeness and I think it's a matter of figuring out which one you want to use and how close it is to your target. There's certain ones that are very well tested and you know very well excised and there are others that people are adding so I think it's matter of looking and sort of see what you want be using and what you have access to. How do I look? I mean what am I looking at my looking at get commits in this area or is there something that will tell me? Oh this chip is fully supported with all of its interfaces and this chip while you can runs Ephron it but don't expect us by driver and we'd love to be that way the documentations really pretty good and love. There's a lot of information we pull over the documentation of the code for the documentation. And then if you look at the docks Stutz ever It goes into more detail about the level of support uncertain of the chips. I'd love to masturbate table of you. Know which chips which drivers her well-tested and everything else but It's an open source project so no one's started generating that yet is that I mean documentation on a normal product is always one of the hardest. Bits how do you convince people who aren't necessarily doing this as part of professional role that the code alone doesn't actually standalone? Well this is. I think where we're sort of lucky in that the companies that are working on Zephyr have had a strong belief in important documentation In the early part of this effort we've had David Kinder- from Intel whose didn't absolutely excellent job of keeping the documentation up to date and has made efforts documentation that really good Unfortunately he's moved on to another job. inside Intel. But he's put us on a really good sound foundation and so I'd encourage you look at our documentation and if people like to work and documentation. Obviously help is always welcome. If you see a narrow just open a bug or even better yet request because all our documentations up on get to it is. It's pretty easy to read. And and it's not just doksan outputs right. Yeah no like I say. Kudos for that or to kinder- like say he did a beautiful job. You're list of supported. Boards is really long. You mentioned cortex Xeros The CORTEX a five threes risk five in SEATAC Alpha on their. No No. No no one's giving us a simulated version of it yet however there's like I say there's a pull request waiting looking for skiing spark in there now got like I say we're seeing a lot of people especially with the FPJ's and working with the architectures this love revitalization happening on some of these coding Fam- like some of the architecture families so eighty fifty. Live forever no. I haven't seen that one and I'm we do need to have at least thirty bits. Thank you please. Thirty two and sixty four. Yeah that was sixteen. Wasn't it? I remember correct now. No it was fine. No it wasn't doing. Yeah it's eight eight thanks. What do the boards have in common? I mean do they all have USB J. Tag flash tools. Or I think they all have basically some sort of serial connection. That's coming out. Most of them have some degree of Some interface coming out at least One way or the other and yes having the tags in the connections. But I don't know if that all of them do. I'm not sure if there is really common denominators among small other than they're all using the same colonel. I couldn't make it. I couldn't make a statement about the peripherals not without a lot of work. How do I decide which operating system to use? I mean there's Free Artas that's out there and there's a for and there are many many many others how I mean you you were you work for the foundation you were on Zephyr. So you're gonNA tummies effort but I also work on lyrics to I also worked with Lenox and I also worked with other things but yes. Of course I've got my biases. How how do you think people should go about trying to choose the way this is going to choose as look what their goals are? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to sell a product? Or you're trying to do something as a Hobbyist. Be One aspect what level of support is how seriously you know. What does it cost you to get security? Updates for instance. What does it cost you for moving? You know getting things you care about upstream can you retain your rights? These are the things that I think are important. You know that are worth looking at. I also think is how clear is the licensing that's important to look at Could someone come after you for patents? After you've put product made some money. One of the choices. Effort made was to go after the Apache two license because it had an explicit pat grant in it so people who are contributing to it are granting patents associated with a code that they're contributing and these sorts of things so it's I think it's a question of you know what are you trying to do. And what are what's important to you from A. Is this something you just doing for yourself or is this something you're trying to scale okay? So let's say it's something I want to scale that I want to use his professionally. Okay so what you make sure is that you've got clean licensing because you do not want someone becoming after you after. You've start shipping. So that's first thing to look at next thing to look at is okay patents. Then it's going to be. How easy is it for me to work with the code base and can I find developers to work with the code base who've worked with the CODE BASE? Then once you start scaling it are you trying to. And it's people's hands. Do you have a way of letting them know if there might be a vulnerability in it? One of the things we're doing right now is that for is we actually have A security team that has now been working since the start of the project. So if you look on the Mitre site you'll see that Zephyr is actually one of the few open source projects there that is a sea. Cna and so. The project has appeaser team or project. Security Incident Response Team. That is responsible for you. Know reviewing any Vulnerabilities that come in and then figuring out the rest of the team how to address them and then reporting back to mitre. So we're working on you know. We have several that. We're working on And we are being very transparent about them and letting people know when they're fixed and those who are And then those who are have products that are registered with us. We're letting them know within the embargo period to So we're taking security very very seriously and we wanna make sure that it's a separate can be used products safely and in terms of safety. There's also the whole element of you know is Is your product going to be used in safety? Critical context Zephyr is actively working towards being able to go after safety certifications hoping sixty one five eight initially and there's some of our members will also take that to twenty six twenty six to We have potential interest from some others in towards the medical device space so but sixty one. Five eight gives us a good grounding for all the others that's the Eyeso- Yep let's see. I saw sixty one five hundred eight and what we're doing. Is You know if we can get to the stage where we can get that certification as a project. I think is you know. And we're making the keeping the sources available to everyone so you'll have a pretty good base. So the next LTS LTS number two. We're working towards that for next year. And we're hoping to have everything in the stage where we can go after those certifications with that that next. Delta's to So it's you know like say we're working towards it pretty tightly. We've got safety team. That's working on it looking at things like the coding standards as well as okay. What evidence do we need to do? One of the things that we'll probably be talking about in an upcoming technical steering committee meeting. Is You know how we're going. To be mapping Code back to requirements. Which is what allowed these safety standards. Yeah Bingo Yup exactly. And so we've got some ideas on how we can do that within the code base so that we can generate a lot of the stuff and as well as the testing of and so forth. So we're sort of bracing and a little bit of trail here on the stuff by doing it out the open and it's kind of exciting. Let's actually It's one of the parts of the project. I'm super excited about is that we're making progress here now and security and being able to be certified. I mean those are the two reasons to buy an artas so Because at that makes that huge thing somebody else's problem but one of the things with Lenox and I'd love Lennox I I use it a lot But it is sometimes free as in a puppy. Sometimes it is. It is a lot of work to get it working and to get it configured the way I want and super flexible but it's so flexible that I spent all of my time worrying about my operating system and not enough time worrying about the application. Which is what I really wanted to spend my time on does defer suffer from question in clinics There are operating system districts right that basically allow the configuration testing keeping up to date pushing fixes. That you know a bunch to red hat so forthright in Zephyr. We are starting to see Our ECOSYSTEM Emerging with solutions. There there's one of our members is foundries and they will basically keep up to date for you and work with you to make sure it's compete for what you need and so that you can focus on your application. So there's there's options emerging and because it is such a smaller code base than Lennox. There's a more you know you. You will need to keep on top of it. I guess is one thing you do need to do unless you have someone. That's there to help you. And their consultants out there. Who will do work for you? Lennox As well as the also work in Zephyr so a lot of some of the embedded the knicks Consultants that are fairly well known in the in the industry right now like Consol is one bay Lebron's and other I know that they've worked in created Zephyr products for people already. You know they also do a love working embedded Lennox and to a large extent with Steph. Or if you're familiar with embedded Lennox Charleston's of embedded Lennox surfers pretty similar You know using device trees using the K can fix this type of information structure the directories is very clean so things are pretty much where you roughly expect them to be. And you know if you've got suggestions for You know how things can get better. Obviously start up Paul requests and start the discussion but this live knobs and not to turn and things to adjust so because it depends on the product of most operating systems. Infra name bedside. It's a little on the downside of the downside but it's a different world and that people use it for their desktops or servers and things which is kind of a different universe than an embedded device. Where once you get your configuration on your better device kind of locked down and I was gonNA ask about architectural. You said it's similar to Lennox was a clean sheet development or let's take Lennox and para parrot down because I remember using the Knicks in the early ninety s amazingly. And you know it ran on a four eighty six with. I think. I had eight megabytes of Ram and comparable to some to a nicely. Configure embedded board these days. It's like okay. Why don't we just take that from the nineties and put it so it was that kind of thing or was it a clean sheet with Lenox principles. Actually it was. It ended up being a clean a clean sheet with Lenox principles. What had happened is Wind River had made an acquisition of company at one point and had their artas sitting on the shelf they have obviously be ex works and when Intel acquired when river they took a look at options and they decided to start with this Artas that was sitting inside. Wind River called Viper and the Open Lennox team an intel the open source team and Intel basically took that and unstructured it into something that was useful from their perspectives. And since it was Olympics team that was doing the initial structuring. You saw a lot of the Feel and things that were common in. Lenox commander Initially it was. You know there was a different make system that was more commented clinics and they actually switched that out a couple of years ago for see me because that's what the embedded developers wanted We initially started on a Garrett's system and we moved over to get out because again that's what the developers wanted. So the code base is very much shipped by the developers for the developers and You know the discussions in the resolution frictions happens at the technical steering committee level. So hopefully the best idea works. And they've they've done something and then come back a couple years later and said no we should do differently and that happens too so it is. It is an active code base in. It's not like it's written once in it's that way forever. People are looking for ways of improving things although some parts are very stable and have been touched at all just like in Lenox so it's probably more familiar to people from Lennox background than somebody who's used traditional tossed on the we're getting some you know some of our members have coming in from the very deep embedded space and they're looking at trying to keep up with all the new technologies like the Bluetooth Stack and so forth and wanting to use that take advantage and working with their traditional co basis It's very very painful. And so they start looking at Seffrin. See that it's an easy transition to just add the bits that they want because a rotten all the other stuff is there now at a level of quality. They're comfortable worth working on. I'm glad you brought up early because I have a project that starting and it's it's on a TI board and I'm relatively familiar with the TI are burning system with Bialy but not super familiar Should I ask my clients to pay me to evaluate Zephyr for use on the TI board? I mean I see that supported but Well Texas instruments was one of our members for the project and so they're demonstrating their commitment to be there with Zephyr by helping us with membership. And so I'd say that. Yeah I I think the question is what the long term cost going to be to your client for the product. They're news either way. Long term is more about the features they get in the confidence they get from good software for the operating systems for either the operatings upbringings. Sorry software isn't free. I am definitely charging you. So the question here is What's the what's the ongoing support? Costs going to be. Are they likely to end? Deal with vulnerabilities down. The road is completely closed. Or are the interfaces open given its feely there's potential for Militias actors to interact with potential in some ways. So if they're both free that's fine. Do you have the support? I guess the question will say as you said. Free isn't puppy. What are the long term costs and if the long term costs You know if you see support palace and everything else in both options than they are good there but if you don't see a support pass caught path then maybe it's worth taking a look at suffer and seeing you know whether it's close enough. Let's actually the problem is that with. Ti using the TI operating system. That's a pretty clear support back. I mean they're probably not going to abandon. Their forms are not necessarily the most active in the way that I want but they exist in as long as. I'm not coloring outside the lines. What they have will work for me. I know that because that's what they say. The chip does but I'm curious about different. I want to try it but I'm having trouble. You know. Have all these questions? Is it certified the way it needs to be certified for TI. Can I get to the lowest power? Do I need lowest power? Can I do but that means I have to spend days and days reading about Zephyr CZ beal implementation. Just want you to talk me into there is no. I'm afraid I'm actually. I probably reach out to some of the folks that are working on this effort project. And I'd ask them that's fair but your stack is certified and your WIFI stack is fcc all all the fund certifications have happened for all these things right. So the is when we've been tracking The WIFI ONE I think are basically our members have been taking it through but we don't we haven't done it as a project with the Bluetooth. We've done it as a project because we're pretty cutting edge there cool. Yeah It was kind of exciting for us in the sense that the Bluetooth Sig tends to use effort as a proving ground before they really specs. And so we're you know we we. We keep pretty current to the tip it all and all the new technologies coming out which has been really exciting for the project. And it is I mean. I know that the TI Auburn into some doesn't support the barely five Mesh networking. And so maybe that's what gets me over to checkout Zephyr. That's good yeah on the slack. Channel for instance We've got really active slack channel. It's a free one and so there's no history so don't don't think you're in bookmark. Something scrape it please if you need to keep it around but we've got a lot of Pretty friendly community and you'll find people from TI and other places On those channels and you can ask them questions directly. If there's issues on specifics like I say if you sit in the Monitor the slack for bet you'll Joel Channel. You'll see a lot of good discussion. That's going on and the discussion that I saw was both about developing Zephyr and using it in the general channel you'll see both and there's other channels are served more specific areas but You will see you know use and development happening. There's a user list and develop mel list and it's just a matter of perspective where people seem to ask questions but I think the most active is probably the slack rather than the mail list. How real time can a Lennox operating system be? How mealtime is suffer You've hit a spot that I don't have a good answer for you. I want qualified still. There's some work I want to do to get qualified to get it specifically precise in a way that I trust. I've seen some estimates done but I don't believe them when the other projects that work on Israel Time Lennox. I'm pretty sensitive to the stuff. Okay gas and and as a result I've seen people obviously claiming that you know this effort is GonNa be able to certain cycle times and so forth but when I look at the methodology. I'm not quite believing them so I can't give you a good answer right now because I don't have the data and I have not had I haven't had the data from someone I trust yet. Let's put it that way. I liked that answer because evaluating these things in the past it's always been very difficult because every operating system vendor has their own slightly different methodology. And so the numbers comparable. Oh we can do you know this context switch plus Blah Blah Blah and fifty microseconds or whatever but it turns out. It's a slightly different from the other persons who claimed seventy five microseconds maybe that matters Nubia dozens and its descendant law. Ask about okay. What aspects like in the face of noise and then. How long is it likely to be sustained? How long has been running for without issues and I mean I didn't specify a board or even a family. There was no Russian. Well if you say I I haven't. I've seen a couple people starting to tackle that and it's an area that I would. I'm probably DISA- people. I wanted to be talking to summer. And I'll see you can start to get some more details emerging on that in the fall but right now like this lab in Germany os AD L. or saddle sometimes referred to and they have a really good real time lab. And I've been talking to Karston there about them. Doing some runs with suffer and with lyrics and You know doing characterization and He seemed interested. And so it's just a matter of you know finding the right boards to send them and things like that so I'm hoping by next fall. I should have some better data for you so real time. Lennox is a thing an embedded. Lennox is a thing and Zephyr is a thing. How do I decide which one I WANNA look at? They all seem overlapping. Well real time. Lennox is a set of patches right now that imply upon embedded Lennox and worked for real time at the the preempt. Rt Patches are going upstream right now or hoping that by five eight all of them will be upstream and that we will have the ability to Have real time. Just configure option in the colonel and it being used embedded is just comment on which options are being chosen for. Zephyr when you're looking at embedded I'll lennox. It really doesn't get smaller than to make our with Nicholas Peter when I was at prior organization before I went to Lose Foundation. He was busy trying to get shrunk down small as possible and he had to play some pretty intricate tricks to get it down to about to make and so functional usable functional system links. You really don't want to be lower than to make Zephyr Like saying we can do eight K. for the bare bones as well and certainly we can go up to their at five. Twelve K becomes reasonable. So it's a question of what's your memory footprint and then with sufferer you using less of your computing resources so you can have a much longer battery life potential and so. How long does your battery did I need to last One of sufferers members is already Khan and they're doing their experience line on Zephyr because of the Bluetooth because I think the battery life they actually give a really good talk Last August at some open source summit North America and they were explaining how they were using it Zephyr in their products. And so you know that people are GonNa be using it in hearing aids you want you want your battery life there right. You don't want to be having to plug this stuff in. And so they've finds ever to be a good solution there so these wearables You know things that have to last a long time one of the other applications. I know that using effort right now is your tags on reindeers. Yeah so it's they're running nordics chips and they've basically put these Created these EAR TAGS FOR THE RANGERS UP IN SCANDINAVIA. So that the Herders contract the heard and the reason it's effective for them to do. It is because of the way that the system is set up. Where is if a natural Predator takes down a reindeer? The herders reimbursed by the government for it and so by tracking the deers and the cost of these tags effectively. They can recruit more of the insurance money that the government would pay them predators prey on it. They can show the evidence so that helps a much more natural situation in evolve and from my perspective. I look at them really impressed. Because you see these endangered animals with huge callers on and things like that and I'd much rather move your tags so people can keep an eye on them so hearing aides ear tags. I'm sensing a theme here. I was offering a reindeer fraud screenplay. Now there's there's some really cool things emerging effort like the creativity that's kicking into. This community is awesome just last night. I was reading up about one of the other. Products using Zephyr is Has You safety shoes? And with these safety shoes what they're doing is letting you people top Morse and get haptic feedback annoys environments And so they've been awards and recently they just Came out and announced a wait. Wait I am sorry. Safety Shoes and Morse Code Kidding Cook. So if you're in a very noisy environment okay. You can't hear an alarm because of your wearing headphones and your where there's a lot of a lot of heavy machinery to you so you being single into to tap on you not use tapping on the shoe. The shoes may give you a buzz okay. So they'll be some sort of haptic feedback and if you needed to communicate back you can tap or something like that. Got It okay. Okay thank you sorry. I couldn't picture and so on Wednesday April twenty second the the interim folk basically announced they're creating a smart tag that goes onto the issues. It's a smart feature so that it helps with the social distancing and Health support them with social distancing. So that it's detecting. Are you close enough to another worker or not? So it's using that type of feature to basically tell you if you're getting too close to someone from the social distancing perspective so you see yeah so you're seeing some really creative ways that people are using the technology to help help keep people safe and you know one of our other members right now is ate a fruit and their pivot different direction but they're busy making PPNL face shields in New York City in trying to help things out there so they're doing awesome work as well so we're super proud of that member and what they're trying to help so you know with without the running There's a lot of creativity in the community and that's kind of exciting to see where it goes as with any embedded project You don't know if people are using it or not. And so finding these little breadcrumbs of where people are using it to help motivate keep you going sometimes. That is so true. Yeah your title is Senior Director of strategic programs at the Linens Foundation. That's that's a cool title. What does it mean? Well it means. There are certain projects that in programs that we're working on here at the Lenox Foundation that Our strategic to the overall industry. And how we can make things better and so I hope portfolio projects that I help And so it's different roles in different projects from the director of the project to you know someone to help. Earth is literally communications. It's you know there's a lot of different things I work with but I work with real time. Lennox and I work this effort and then the other project. I'm working with right now. That's kind of exciting. Is something called? Lisa which is enabling lyrics and safety critical applications and again the safety themes kicking in here but Because of the standards like sixty five eight they were written with a very specific mindset and a specific model of development in mind. And what we're trying to do is figure out. What is it going to take to make people feel confident? That Lennox is safe in your what types of you know. What should they be looking at in their analysis Before they deploy a product could have a safety critical application. Things are Tesla's out there right now. Running Lennox I don't believe they've gone through sixty one five eight certifications. How can we make sure that these in you as we get towards the autonomous driving they need the processing power of something like Lennox? How can we make sure? The sorts of things are safe How can we figure out what's important there and in other applications and you know what level of safety so it's a big open question and we've seen people like From all different spaces coming together to try to help figure this out. We've got a medical devices workgroup right now where we're looking at where. Lennox is being used in medical devices. And we're trying to figure out. How can we analyze the interfaces around it and we were looking at There's an open source project called open. Aps WHICH IS OPEN. Artificial pancreas system. That's our project that's being done by type one diabetes for themselves. It's a hobbyist project. But what they've done is improved the quality of their life by creating closed loop between there. INSULIN PUMP glucose monitors and stopping the alarm fatigue. And so we're looking at. How Lennox is being used there? It's not key components not the algorithm but the algorithms running clinics. And so what's really important and try to do some analysis there Recently though we decided to apply our analysis work onto the open source ventilator options that are out there and so we've been looking at the various open source ventilators there and starting to look at trying to do some safety analysis with them. And you know. There's one GRA. Standardize on like say fishy are surveys off right now. that Has a good part of it there and looks like it's in reasonable shape but they are going to be communication happening to screen somewhere for displaying the results and thus where it'll end up fitting in we think and so we're actively monitoring what's going on that group has got people from ul underwriters laboratory as well as some of the tubes over in Europe participating in trying to figure out. How can we figure out? What the lyrics is safer? Not In these sorts of situations. And how can we mitigate the risks which is mostly what safety analysis understanding your system and then mitigating risk? So we're going after it from that perspective in that group. There's another group obviously for automotive and we're looking at trying to form one working in the robotics industrial too so there's this different use case domains working and then we're looking at okay. How do you break down the process related to the clinics and related to the Standards Processes? What's the evidence it's air what's not there as well as You know how do you start looking at key? Parts of Lennox. Where important and you know. There's one researcher Who's doing formal verification on parts of the scheduling part of the kernel for instance and other places? We should be doing formal verification. Things like that to make safe so on one hand you something like effort which is very small and you can go through the judicial processes and then on the other hand you have Lennox which has a whole slew of interesting domains to interact from and some part and some heart problems to solve. You know on the other hand. It's you know everyone seems to be that it's got pretty good quality at this point and so you know there's a lot of things in place to keep it with good quality and so it's just making those visible in a way that the safety people understand that's a tough thing to do both from the safety getting people to understand but also it's a lot of work to get anything safety. Certified really amazing amount of work. Yeah but you know if people's lives are depending on it and there's liability issues you really don't want anything to go wrong and so figuring out how we can make it easier for people to do. The steps of tasks is one of the things are looking at in this group as well as you know trying to do as much for the work for everyone we can infer So there's GonNa be more and more of these two safety critical implications happening. I ever needed an implant. I'd want to not be able to know I could. You know. There's an open source view of the code somewhere and I can understand what's going on. Sometimes these are and what batteries allow you to last a long time too so these are also replaces it. We want to see Safety Brought into Ambi accessible to the applications because his love cool ideas out there but we want to make sure that they can be used in Safeway and the neat thing about Zephyr is not only. Are you building that thing and certifying the thing the Zephyr part of it? You are showing everybody else how to do it. Which is definitely important to. We're showing showing people how we're doing it. Zephyr with has a certain set of parameters around it and we're working our way from a very small subset of the functionality and separate up on the lakeside. We're basically looking at different techniques to accomplish the same types of goals and it's a really interesting spectrum between them The other project I look at Is San I sit on their safety team. There and I'm trying to make sure we cross pollinate between all three projects. What are the best practices to us? And so in this way. These things are all strategic. And that's why I'm thinking often them another area. That's our strategic is you know. How do we make sure that we can have transparency in the supply chain? So do you know what's running on your device lot of do you know what's you know? We we saw things several years ago about heart bleed and that Serb servicer base. But when you start looking at the bedside how do you know what's on your device for less some gives you an accurate suffer bill materials you don't and if you're renting a bill you stacks and could potentially hockey if you don't know your version has been updated you know what stack on it? You may or may not susceptible so native really improved the transparency of what we're sharing. I offer information so that we can use these things safely. Bet It systems are going to have to grow up soon. There'll always be a place for people to be creative. Come on yes. Oh definitely it's just thinking about all the additional stuff. It's important along those lines if fi got excited and wanted to try. Zephyr out what's the. What's the quickest route deserve specific board? That's great Or is there a tutorial it says? Hey go through these steps and you'll be up and running in our this quick. Start this this bunch of quickstart guides for various boards out there to get to two blinky effective legal One of the boards that we really like As well supported is Fi Tek actually created a board for the project agree. So you can tell you. Know that that and they've actually have extension boards on it and things like that so adding different peripherals but that one's very well supported and it's got a little led on it and health says Basically the Bluetooth and so you can serve signal to each other in a in a set of them things like that. So depending what franchise you WanNa play with The fight tick board is a really cool one and there's other ones that are out there from some other members like inexperience an order and so forth that are like the next thing are all running. Zephyr quite well as some of the The Ones Number. So this good you know options that are available pre cheap too and if you look at the list There's a good chance that most people listening to this show might have one of these boards. Yup I would say the discos are all there and the explains in the nucleus is and yeah there. There's this this list is very long. Esp thirty. Two's that might be. You know it's like say a lot of people have contributed a lot of boards. And this is how we've got somebody commits right as people are putting what they're needing and using on a day to day so that it's kept up to date with everything else with testing infrastructure. I mean if you're GONNA have to spy driver you might as well race by driver. Other people can use exactly. That's a whole benefit of open source. Kate thank you so much for speaking with us. Do you have any thoughts? You'd like to leave us with. I'm sure Just you know in this Crazy rover and right. Now stay safe and be creative with the extra time you've got at home now. Our guest has been Kate Stewart. Senior Director of strategic programs at the Lenox Foundation. Okay thank you thank you to Christopher for producing an coasting and thank you for listening you can always contact us at show at embedded dot. Fm own the contact link on embedded DOT FM. And now some thoughts to leave you with Zephyr as you may know is the name of the West wind the bringer of Spring and summer breezes. But did you M- now that Boreas is the north wind bringer of cold. Notices the southwind the hot wind and Urus is the East bringer of rain happy Spring Northern Hemisphere emitted is an independently produced radio show that focuses on the many aspects of engineering. It is a production of logical elegance and embedded software consulting company in California. If there are advertisements in the show we did not put them there and do not receive money from them at this time. Our sponsors are logical elegance and listeners like you.
Ep.359 The Kernel of Google's Ire ft. Ron Amadeo
"If you consider the meaning of life to be about the struggles one goes through then between the Pixel foreign. Sadia bugles full of life right now. So let's Dawson Lennox while we're at it. This is the android police podcast. The it's Wednesday November twentieth. I'm David about time we had on our guests today. He's in to Penn Tabula sears. A before leaving and spending every minute since kicking the butts at ars technica another fantastic. A write in from jewels there It's Ron Ron Ron. D'Amato what's up High Ron. It's been a little while since you think you've been on the show. I feel like the last time was maybe like the Google podcast. Yeah yeah the Google podcast. I is a tradition. Where all of drunk idiots get together and and podcast from couch it's awesome yes and Arm Refuses to join us out of out of principle So we have a few things talk about this week. But Ron you've spent like the last you went to this thing. I didn't even know I didn't. I didn't go to a thing. You didn't go do the thing. No I watched it three hour video on Youtube Man. Oh God even worse So let's let's talk about this. I was even aware this was happening or like that. There would be the android related announcements at this event. It's the Lennox Plumbers Conference which is like the least like? It doesn't sound official or important at all But apparently some very low level stuff happening with the Lenox colonel and some of it relates significantly to android right now. So Ron what did you. What did you learn well? Well yeah I mean I lennox links. Plumbers conference happens every year. And it's like we're used to Google al.. I guess where it's like you know the people onstage Google developers and then like like everybody audiences like a lower to your APP developers and journalists and stuff like that the Lennox Plumbers Conference. I guess it's like invite only and it's like fifty or some some people that all work on Lenox and they're all like peers so like the people on stage and the people in the audience are all like that the big name Lennox developers. So so you're yeah like crazy stuff gets talked about. They're and they're they're talking about bringing the like Android Karnal picket shift on your phone and kind of merging that with Lenox kernel that that actually gets used in desktop computers and this was basically a A Youtube three hour like brainstorm session session between between the various parade of Google's on stage and the people in the audience about how to how to make these things come together and like they talked. You Bet it last year and they kind of pitched the idea last year and this year they had a lot more information to talk about and how they want to do it and stuff like that interesting so like I guess probably. They're discussing this at such a low level that extracting any kind of analysis in terms of what it means for android right might be a little difficult but was there anything that kind of like I mean for me even. I don't really understand a lot of this stuff. And so I like struggle to understand unlike what what would be the benefits to bringing androids Lennox colonel and Mex- colonel other than the obvious stuff. Like obviously it's going to get off security benefits that are in the mainline Lennox colonel. I'm it'll be more up to date more frequently And hopefully not break things. But I don't know these are all really big questions. I'd have wouldn't even know where to begin again. Like looking for answers to them. Well I mean the obvious F is a great place to start. I mean right now. The Colonel Ends up in your device is a brand new device device ships with a two year old Lennox Journal. So you lose all of the all of this security patches. In new features that get added to the Leonard Journal and Lynch Journal is is the the world's biggest software project so like if you are not on mainline the amount of things that just happen every day is happens that such an insane pace. It's so hard to keep up with your crappy fork of the lyrics colonel but also part of the reason that android is. This is kind of Like insulated imbedded system that you can't move from device to device is because every Lennox kernel that ends up on an android device is specific to only that device and all of the hardware support is like baked in to the kernel for that one item. And you can't like move move it around the way you can like limits on a desktop and yeah Google just talked about all of the ways. We can change things so that that doesn't happen so I see one of a little items we have in the sheet. Here says that abstraction essentially locks in the base colonel version and Google will be forces support six years of Lennox long term support releases. So that it. We'll do we think that's going to have any kind of effect on like the update lifetime of phones. What makes them easier to support longer? Or is this really just all very specific to the Lenox. Colonel Title I think the the core of how long phone gets supported kind of up to qualcomm because they need to. I think they need to continue supporting supporting the whole update process of their. SS's I don't know if they would be willing to do that for longer. But it would certainly make it less work like Google draws a a lot of comparisons to project trouble with this new colonel thing which doesn't have a silly project name yet. I don't know why. But it's kind of like the the like separation and modular rising of hardware like dependencies so that code can be more portable and more easily updated and like they talked about. How like a glimpse colonel gets on your phone? And it's like a series of fork so like Google takes the the Colonel admit and turns it into the android colonel so they added special android code to basically. That's a fork. And then they give that to qualcomm and then qualcomm forks that android Carl and they add all their qualcomm specific code for like like the snapdragon eight fifty five. And then that gets sent to Samson in Samson folks that and then they add towed specific for Galaxy S. ten and then that ends up on your it only works on that because it's been fort like three or four times by now and that's why everything's two years old and why everything's so slow and and difficult to Ford around rant interesting so I guess like the kind of speaks to a broader effort. I think on the ANDROID team where I've seen a lot of investment in reducing using the amount of work partners have to do like I feel like that motivates so much of what's going on with android anymore and it makes it harder to explain to people like why this matters in the end like if Samsung has to do less work on the colonel. If Samsung is not going to have to deal with this they can focus probably software development resources on other things they can. You know feel less rushed I mean. Phones are always on a rush time on for software we review phones. We know we get phones with unstable software to review like all the time like. It's it's gotten better. I won't lie about that like I remember like back in the day. You get some seriously rough. pre-release builds on review units. But I think Google really is making a big effort just to try to. I just activated my Google home Is Making a big effort to try to really. I guess like the Word Ivanhoe make android much more modular and make it such that they can ship big chunks of it out to their partners and say this is set up. You don't need to worry about it like we have these hooks in here for you. Work with Flit stop tinkering with the low level parts of the system right and that that works great for Android. When it's something Google controls but you know Google goes up in front of the audience is like listen? We should really old Lennon's journalists the away. We're GONNA fix that is to have you guys do a whole bunch of work and totally change the layout of of how the external works and isn't this a great solution. Let's all let's I'll do it. Let's have you do all of this change so that it makes our lives better and like is the next community going to do that. maybe maybe so. This is just a proposal. Oh yeah yeah I mean they. Sometimes they would go up there and say this is a problem that we have. Does anyone in the audience know how we can fix this because because because the people in the audience are the people that you want to talk about about fix these things and sometimes were other people from Google from different divisions sometimes they were people from Lennox so yes it sounds like it's a crazy the environment but also like the the mood in the crowd. It didn't seem like people were skeptical or against the idea. It seemed like everyone was kind of like brainstorming rainstorm. On how to make this happen because injured after all is probably the biggest lennox distribution of course far and they did get the Lennox community recently to extend the timeline for colonel support so like long term support used to be two years or four years or something and now at six and they did that specifically because android take so long to ship these things and they want them to ship kernels that get security updates. Yeah Yeah I think. That's I think the fact that android is so big now. It's hard to drive for the lowest community to ignore the reality of like this is this is what a lennox destroying the wild looks like. Now do you WanNa make it better. I mean they have to have some level of like you know pride and self respect say like well I guess we should probably make it such that. The most those popular Lennox distribution for the foreseeable future like is at least a little more updateable a little more portable. Because you know it's it's never going to be the year of clinic on the desktop and the cool thing is like they've they've made a ton of progress like somebody had a phone there from Larry was like a it was a POCO. F One chief Xiaomi. It was running the regular Lennox Journal with Android. And I guess that's the first phone on earth to do it and it works for that only only and they need to kind of do an ecosystem wide investigation of like well this hardware works. What do we need to do to make the other hardware? We're working you know Samson's fingerprint or heart rate scanners and all of those all of those weird crazy things that android phone chip with need to have a modular logical arised plugging for external. And there's so many I mean obviously like you know you have that extra layer with qualcomm where they are adding so many things because vulgar custom hardware you now so they are such a big player in this too. I wonder if qualcomm had people there right yeah. I didn't see any but like the the the suggestion that Google made is to have a stable. API or a bi where like just like project trouble where like okay this is. This is like the code that you can plug into. And then you can write modules as they plug into this code for like your speakers and microphones and SS's and whatever else and this is suggested so frequently in the lyrics colonel community they have like a document on. Why don't want to do this? And what the document says is like. We don't want to do this because the best way to to be kept up to date with Leonard Thrown is to open source your driver code and then we will stick it in Lenox colonel and we will maintain it for you are like open source. Religious motivation is the reason that this is not exist and Google is basically weekly saying look. That's not realistic. QUALCOMM NEVER GONNA open source their SC drivers. Your option is either nothing or a modular alerts solution. So let's make a monitor. Modular Solution Suey can plug in a binary blob and have it work. Yeah I think that is that is probably the toughest part of the conversation. The Lennox community has like inherited. This like militant attitude from Linus Torvald over the years where he has been so adamant about about what companies need to do in order to be a friend of the Lennox Foundation and I think that probably plays into a lot of their beliefs. which unfortunately like you said? It's totally unrealistic unrealistic to expect qualcomm to open source it's drivers like their their GPA. They don't even like like tell you. What the architecture is like they have to do x Ray Scans of QUALCOMM? GPU's determined what the layout is because they just won't say anything you know. These companies are so secretive about like the marginal advantages they can achieve over their competitors. They never want to let that stuff get out in the wild. It's just another avenue to get reverse engineered somehow so you know like if qualcomm open source it's GP view drivers like I imagine how much. Ip Theft from China would happen immediately. They would steal everything and they wouldn't respect the open source license. They don't Oh care so I think that you know it's not just companies being greedy. It's also like companies rightfully. You know probably being like hey you know we like created a lot but this stuff it does important things we are proud of it and we believe it gives us a competitive advantage. Also we don't want everybody else to share our competitive advantage and I think that's it's like that's reasonable like that's how companies make money. That's how you get the very nice smartphone. You have in your pocket so I think that's that's a fair point even even if like the you know the Lennox community doesn't care because it's them it's all just about like the philosophy behind it. I don't know so I feel like we've probably exhausted exhausted. The the Lennox Plumbers Conference for now I didn't even realize was just like a proposal so I wonder how long it will will hear about this Google next year if any any progress has been made or if this is going to be a years long battle yet they basically ended it was saying. Oh we have you know miles to go but we know what problems we need to tackle now and they've the only been working on it for like two years or so so yeah give it time. Yeah like everything But I think one of the other topics we should discuss today. You know reviews views of stadium out. And you know we haven't really discussed it too much on the show as of yet I think we talked about a little bit on Monday. But I'd like to Iran. I'd like to get your Opinion Union and attitude on stadia so far because I feel like the reviewer experiences have been highly divergent like your guys review was pretty brutal. Our or review is like it's fine fine it works and so there is definitely immediately apparent on launch day. Like a there are this is not what is this. This is typical google. Yeah Stadia so I played product stream and I've played stadia shows a few times project stream. I got to play at my house but like the stadium that I played at shows. Google controlled stadium works fine but like I think the big problem with stadio rather rather than does it work is like who. Is this supposed to be four because like I feel like Google designed a platform. That is That it's it's very appropriate for a casual Gamer. That doesn't want to invest in a console. Doesn't have a consul already and maybe won't notice the couple lag issues that popped up but then they loaded it with a game library that appeals like exclusively to hardcore gamers like the big games our destiny to and doom five five or whatever number tombs up to now and like. I don't think those two I don't think the game selection and platform capabilities. Really go together in a thing that anybody's GonNa want to buy because anybody that likes to play competitive shooters is GonNa have an xbox. Don't think the market for those style games can get much bigger. Yeah and I think that for me what I run up against is like Google argument has been the consoles have served served as a barrier to entry for a lot of people and I don't know man like in in the year twenty nineteen. I don't think that's nearly as true as it was like. Twenty years ago Consuls were comparatively more expensive back in the day. A lot of the time and games were still pretty expensive games. I think actually I think gotten cheaper if you adjust for inflation even with the bumped the sixty dollars I think games are cheaper today than they were twenty years ago because I remember Sega Games being fifty dollars like back in the day. You know there were some expensive games out there so I don't know that like financial accessibility is a good a good sell for this. I think the the problem right now is that it's only available You know with the subscription mode which I think is coloring a lot of the reviews. I think once this goes totally free and you can just buy your games. You know like if you did this one game you WanNa play you can play for free on Sadie at ten eighty P swimming. It works works reasonably well. You Supply Your own control you can use your pc your laptop or whatever. I still feel like. That's a very appealing thing. I think the idea that it it replaces a game console like Nah. I don't think that's I don't think that's the case so I do wonder like you said how big is the market. How many of these people are out there that want? Yes like the don't already have access to a game console because game consoles have become really cheap. Like Nintendo switch has proven that. There's still a lot of people out there who are perfectly happy you to pay for a game console. That's not very technologically advanced has a lot of compromises but gets taken everywhere with them and it plays a lot of the games they know in love. Yeah yeah the thing to your point about not removing a financial barrier. Isn't like you still need and incredible Internet connection and a great like Wifi network in order for this to work like you can't be if you're a low income family or like someone in the developing hoping world or whatever like stadia isn't GonNa work unless you have a fairly like a rich person's Internet are just just because it has so many demands on on on your local network performance and your wider Internet performance. that it doesn't work on crappy Internet and it's never gonNA work on Apple. TV or anything like that. Either you know so i. I know what Google's like plan with mobile is and it's just like they're just I feel like stadium like so many of these like streaming services have been is like a head ahead of its time still. I think Google's betting that was five G. The latency reductions will make it such that playing over mobile will become tenable for some people in some region's whenever we get five G. in apparently like I never ten years. Yeah Yeah exactly. It's GonNa take forever so I feel like that part of it. It's like it would feel so much more complete. If you're at a place where a mobile Internet connection really could support a stable connection to a service like this at that point I could you see a lot more clearly like you could play like your favorite games like on the bus on the train or in a car. It doesn't matter like that fantasy I think is is like a lot of gamers. Do want that like in those are people who have consoles or have. PC's energised like being frustrated by technology at this point the fact that mobile connections are. I'm good enough for this so I think that's like a dream to aspire to but like Microsoft is doing this playstations already doing this INVIDIA has a service to Steam you can use steam linked to to the same effect to play Games on mobile. If you really want to be a masochist. That way but Google's advantage seems seems to be a lot more nebulous to me. I don't really know what they're bringing to the table. That special like Microsoft's cloud thing looks like basically the same. Yeah Google would say what they're bringing specialist their infrastructure. But like I think we've seen a huge like variability of performance in reviews and I think a big part of that is I wi fi connection like they're trying this over Wifi in it is not working and like stadia is the hardest thing your Internet will ever I do because I've seen like crazy reports out there that are like Oh if you can watch youtube you can run stadium. And it's like no youtube gets to be buffered you can. You can download Y- in ten or ten seconds or a minute of a youtube video at a time stadium. It's one frame at a time if your wi fi connection has the slightest little issue or somebody turns earns on a microwave or a person next door starts watching net flicks. Your performance goes to crack. And that's that is way too much to ask of love most people's Wi fi networks. Yeah I agree. And it also relies on concepts like jitter which most people aren't even aware of what their network jitter is. So you could have like the network just bounce for a moment and like you end up losing several seconds of Gameplay and. I'm sure that Google has built in some fail safe. Anything to try to mitigate that but like the reality of Wi fi is that it's a messy imperfect technology and performances very inconsistent. Oh and did you see. The next router has a stadium mode. Does it where it will. Yeah it will try to like boost your your gaming performance for your device. I mean that's kind of cool. I will say the Google Wifi is the best Wifi router. I've ever had like. It is no issues no fuss like. I think I've had to reset it once once ever and it works it just works so I will say Google like probably has the best product for this experience. And do you want a microphone in it and not really no I. I would turn off the always on functionality and s wife. I don't really understand that product. I think I think getting off track here. I think Google the goal is getting a little desperate shove speaker into everything you can get. It's kind of ridiculous at this point but The stadium you know. I know I'm not the target audience. I would sometimes like to play games on the go but I don't really care about it enough to make an investment. I'd I wouldn't spend money on that. I have a gaming. Pc like you know it's just it doesn't make much sense and then I the whole idea of like investing like sixty dollars in a game that you don't own I. I think some people can get past that I personally am still pretty. I would have trepidation like I'd be concerned. Yeah I think it has much stronger future as like a as a demo products like hey this game came out click here and play it for ten minutes right now on your computer computer. No waiting. It's going to take like like ten seconds to start up. Oh give it a try right now. The instant gratification angles. Not when I had considered that's actually that could probably convert sales. I bet they could get people to buy stuff by doing that. Like play. Fifteen minutes of red dead redemption to In you you know like a big screen pops up and says by now I mean. That's kind of cool actually her but would I would. I would imagine what happens. Is this games coming out on on and xbox Playstation Stadium Click here. Play the stadium version for ten minutes. See if you like it and then buy it for your xbox yes so Google essentially gets best bide by. Hey everybody it's so true. Yeah because honestly who wants to take the time to download a demo of a game. It's pain pain in the ASS so I guess we'll see what happens with it. I the reviews of like significantly tampered my excitement over what I think Google has and the fact that they had to like delay a bunch of the the features they initially announced his part of it. It's just so typical google everything about it like. Oh all that cool stuff. He said it would do that would make it interesting and unique in the marketplace. Well you don't have to wait a little offer that we don't know when I mean it's not even interesting and unique unique it stuff like achievements don't work and you can't do family sharing and like all of these all of these basic features. Don't work yet. I don't even think this controller works wirelessly on all platforms like everyday life. Form has a different implementation with different quality levels. It's it's a Beta test. It's Bay detached that people can pay for. It is a Beta test. I I absolutely agree agree with that is unfortunately the case for Google really testing products on the on the public and we know how that tends to go I'm going to run our ad real quick here before we switch skiers. Hey if you're watching the ANDROID podcasts on twitter today thank you so much and if you are watching on twitch we'd really appreciate it if you subscribed if you're an Amazon prime member you subscribed to us for free on twitch inscribed you one Channel per month on twitch. You do have to renew that every month if you keep supporting us but it does not cost you any money. I'm in a gives Amazon's money to us so if you WANNA take jeff basis money and give it to us so tripos on twitch we really appreciate it and you know if you're able to join us for live show you can ask questions and chat with the hosts mostly with jewels because usually we're talking but You know it's awesome. You can also pay to subscribe if you want to tear start at five dollars much. You can get extra entries and AP giveaways subscriber even also Learn there's no also you can just go to twitter dot TV slash android. Police subscribe and if you don't use twitch had android police dot com. You can get the donate button if you just WANNA make one time donations saying thanks for the show. We're thanks for doing android police or whatever Thanks for listening. Everybody and we'll get back to show again. That's twitch DOT TV slash android. Were lives four times a week. Three podcasts and then one QNA show on Tuesdays. So you've been at ours for how long now four dude you said. I was at Android red police for two years so it was total news to me. I don't know man. Time is whatever you probably five years. I WanNa say I that sounds about right I remember I because I feel like the one that I were you at the I feel like you were at the event. The first event I went to the you were with ours. That was in New York was what's the LG was it the G. Five something like that. That wasn't event I went to. I don't know they all blur together. The one that was like the World Trade Center after one year office because we did we went to the cafeteria word. Yeah wow five years. We had eric on the other week and I also so got feel sad about how long I'm coming up on my tenth anniversary Next year run. It's been a long time. So what are you doing these days at our society so like you write about android but obviously there's more to the world and android are you. Are there any other topics you're like breaking into into these days. I mean I started doing all of this for fun so like android kind of what I want to write about so not really I mean occasionally get to write about cars Which is fun? I wrote a thing. I don't know a couple years ago. There was a car like various car. INFOTAINMENT systems like comparing and trashing them the same way I would have cell phone. Superfund yeah I don't know I wanNA start writing styles but there's so many cellphones I I don't really have too much time for any of that. Yeah smart there are a lot of funds but I feel like phones are getting to the point where they're getting so much just being a commodity like it's hard for for me to personally get very excited about a given phone for more than like five minutes anymore. I learned like the list of features that make it slightly different than every other phone and and then like mostly move on. I don't know that I have like I will say that. I've lost a lot of the lust for reviewing funds. I it's not something I really enjoy anymore The car stuff is interesting. Though like the God infotainment reviewing infotainment systems like you could be the most brutal critic in the universe talking about like just so terrible. Yeah I managed to hunt down. What operating system was under like each infotainment system awesome and it's always like Lennox or like Hugh Annex which either is the company that owns blackberry or blackberry? Owns them when one of those it's links and sometimes android and like the oldest saddest version of android. You could possibly imagine like gingerbread ice cream sandwich. It's super bad but I think I'm going to get a hold of a pulse star. Is it a pole star to android automotive. Yeah and yeah look at android automotive. That'll be super fun. Yeah I'm pretty excited for that. have been talking with them about getting on that launch. I feel like so i. I know their partners. So far. They've got post. Are I think they announced a Fiat. Chrysler is going to be a partner with them but Fiat. Chrysler won't bundle the Google APPs which which is so weird they're just going to have the OS and then shoes application partners. which okay? Yeah so I. I think it's a way for them to make money right. There are sales to be made. Yeah exactly which to me is gross. I can't believe Google's allowing them to do that. That's that's not nice but I feel like there's another automaker announced that they they were getting on board with it too. Because you're right like I know that Hyundai use ice cream sandwich on their infotainment for years. I'm not sure if they still do but I think it's because a lot of these car. Companies like Harman Kardon is their supply partner in harmon develops the software like so Samsung is the company that actually technically supplies a lot of this stuff. Now it's L. G. TO LG does like all of GM stuff like so whatever like is on GM's cars it's an LG LG infotainment system. You'd think they'd be better at this than I mean how long does Samsung by Hartman Garden. That was a couple of years ago. Okay okay enough. Enough to matter in the glacier slow development of a car payment system probably everything takes five years in everything everything is five years old as a result. There's no there's no magic to it. It's we started developing this five years ago and we released it today and yes. That's how old version Asian of Android you're going to get. Yeah Yeah exactly guys talking with the Pollstar guys about this and I was talking to some of the Google Project Product Manager for android automotive. He's like yeah when we started working with pollstar they're like. Oh yeah you know usually like to do software freeze A year ahead of production and the Google guys like. That's literally never going going to work. You have to have to pick a different INFOTAINMENT system partner. If you want to do that. So Google is we were thinking of shipping. Final software scored like thirty days. After the car came out. Exactly like you can't wait for the first reviews to be like Full disclosure closer. This car is running a Beta software build representative of final retail unit experience. But it will be cool. I think have like Google will like updating stuff like maps. You know like so that they can then break things But also you know keep them up to date like that's the worst thing about a car like the infotainment system agent's out in in horrible ways I have a Mazda infotainment system and it is trash it is just garbage. No good very bad. It's one of those crappy Lennox destroy ones and like you can be upgraded to run android auto on it but honestly it performed so terribly like I'm just like why. Why would five hundred dollars to add android auto to my objectively terrible infotainment screen? You have to pay to add android auto. Yes because it's a rhetoric rate because they also have to install eight Point one APP USB hub into the car because it only ships with a one APP hub like my car does not charge my phone appreciably. Oh okay like it's so slow so I'm happy to see like I'm going to be excited. Try at the pole. Start to like it should be pretty awesome. But I think they're also doing android auto auto automotive on some kind of Sev's at like an x q exporting execute. Yeah a Volvo is the other one because those same companies pollstar so that makes sense right so if they won't give you a pollstar try for the SUV. It doesn't matter. It should all be the same software. One of our listeners says full disclosure I worked with the Dallas based Toyota the CV team on their camera and Lexi unit platform I that was all of the old Toyota. Like infotainment systems are among the very worst. I I think because they're licensed from Subaru or is it Subaru that licenses from Toyota. They're like they have been the most harangue of any of them out there I know Subaru just got android auto like in the last year. It took them that long. Cars are such like a reviewing cars ars from a technological standpoint. I would probably just eventually tear my hair out. I would not want to do. It would be so dead. I say it. It's back to like early android funds back in the day. Where just? There's nobody knows what they're doing. It's a crazy wild west of abandoned software and hardware that doesn't work and it's super fun to write it is i. I love to write about it like it is really really not. It's it's pretty brutal Quite frankly like I was driving a Hyundai last year to see yes and like their infotainment system is not changed appreciably early in like four or five years now you know just because the development cycles are so long but so cars Let's see what else can we talk about today. Sorry usually it's a little more. It's I'm kidding. It's not usually more structured than this. Well let's talk about like let's talk about Pixel for a little bit. I think we're always good for a little pixel for bashing here. And Ron your review was I think the most brutal to date really yes. It absolutely was didn't an end with it in a trash can so it can't be that. Oh that's that's that's my benchmark that is a piece of android police history. Oh that's good content. The the Pixel Four. Yeah I mean it just seems cheap like I don't mean like the materials build qualities bad. I mean it just feels like Google build it down to a price and and and to get there. They had to cut the SPEC sheet down considerably but then they didn't pass any of this onto consumers like it seems like. It's a cut rate eight phone. Did they still sold for nine hundred dollars. I mean there's less rammed another phones. There's less storage. The storage is slow. If you're GONNA do the multi camera thing there's there's not enough cameras because everybody else has three and you've got to the battery super small. There's Wi fi six even built into the QUALCOMM. Sec and you just need to add an antenna thing to it. They cut back on the inbox accessories like the headphone Jack Adapter headphones they cut. Cut The cloud storage so like there's all of these things where they made these changes for. I'm sure Google would make some kind of stupid argument in favor of them but like they made among these changes to increase their profit margins. It seems like and I don't really understand why but it just seems like remember the old one plus phones that would come out like five years ago where they would you know. Here's a high end phone with the latest. Sec for like three hundred bucks or whatever and it's like yeah they cut a couple of corners but for three eight hundred bucks. It's fine but then for eight hundred or nine hundred. It's not fine at all. Yeah I have to agree this year that it's just not a good situation. I feel like wants the Pixel for a comes out next year like the shoes gonna drop like so Google can make two decisions to me with the Pixel for a they can either choose is to keep the camera ray from the Pixel phone for Excel or they can keep it single camera on the back just out of spite in differentiation and I think if they put the oh camera on the back like game over every review is just going to say. Don't buy a pixel four. Just buy the cheaper one. If you want Google software experience and I feel like that was true this year to most people like if you don't really care about having the latest tech in your phone spy pixel three. It's good it's fine. It's cheap yeah. Other than the he said Wide Angle Lens yet or telephone other than the Telephoto Lens. It's the same camera I think it's certainly the same sensor. They back boarded the astro photography. You and all those other features so like you're you're not a camera was the only thing that takes a line did well. If basically the same ones on the on the cheaper one get that yeah I just don't I don't really get how their business strategy is going to work going forward if they're just gonNA keep undercutting themselves every six months of me like well you know all that cool stuff. We showed you in the phone from six months ago. We put most of it in a much cheaper phone here you go. That doesn't seem like a good way to sell your flagship. The Pixel four seems like a business strategy change where like somebody knocked on their door and was like. Hey if you're going to keep doing this hardware thing. The profit margin needs to go way up. We need to stop losing money on this. I like the only way I can. Theorize the Pixel for changes being justify disease like Google needed higher profit margins on these phones for some reason because like we. We compare the Google hardware team to apple and Samsung but like in terms of size. Google is a very big advertising company but Google's hardware division is nowhere near the size of apple and Samsung. And I would imagine when you go to a camera vendor and apple and Samsung say. Yeah we want ten million in units and Google says we want one hundred thousand units I would imagine the ten million order gets away lower price. You'll go probably is. I hadn't thought about that but yeah you're yeah right. They're probably paying a premium on components. Because like they're doing small orders and we know there's like over the years there was a problem that plagued the nexus phones for ages where they just run out the phone so fast because Google was too afraid to build too many of them because they didn't want to lose money like the penny pinching biting them in the ass so hard now like it's it's counterproductive. Google really need. They're going to make this work. They need to be willing to burn money and they have money they can do it right. I mean but maybe maybe that's what they've been doing with the Pixel Line because I think to compete with apple and Samsung on specs and features and price. which is I feel like what they did from the Pixel one two and three that must have been extremely expensive with low profit margins and I think with the pig before they decided? Hey we have to not do that and an and you know not compete so much like you can buy an iphone eleven for less than a pixel four. Yeah yeah and it's honestly it's a better phone at being a phone like I use the Promo for like a month and it's an objectively better smartphone than the Pixel. I don't like the operating system runs but like as a smartphone mark phone. It's just better and basically every way. The cameras were better. The battery lasts like ten times as long the speakers are better the optics are better. The screen green is better like everything about the whole product. Experience generally is just better. Everything works better. It charges faster even like which you cannot save out an iphone on for years and I feel like Google really just. I think you're right about the cost. Cutting because even as like material materials wise the pixel four feels way cheaper than the three. Xl like three excelled felt very refined like it had that cool gradient on the glass and everything like all the little Polish cuts around the camera. Cut Out it looked very very like very like it was very polished the Pixel xl is two pieces of glass sandwiched around a pretty ugly camera module brimmed in plastic. I do not like the plastic. I think it's metal with a plastic coating. Yeah maybe weird. I do like this. I don't know what color you got. White Okay Yeah. The white one has a soft touch back that I like. I'm a fan of it. It doesn't seem like it has melted off yet either or scratched away or anything and I think that feels really nice but yeah the the plastic sides are weird. Yeah it's it's just strange and I it does not feel to me the as premium as the three xl. I think that there were definitely some material changes. Probably I mean this kind of stuff again like I think you're right about supply chain coming to be an issue. Issue like apple can make the iphone eleven pro out of stainless steel because they sell so damn many of them that they can afford to like. CNC stainless. Nobody else is going to do that. Because a huge huge waste of money but apple shipping so much volume that it can afford these these more exotic expensive materials right and also they have the capital to investigate that kind of thing thing and build a supply line can actually make that because there ain't an existing you know let's Mila phone out of stainless steel or whatever it is. They did like the apple fool. Apple does this all the time where they create a supply line that did not exist before. Yeah and I can only go around and say hey like the back of the Pixel three where it was like a soft touch glass that you could scratch. I swear the way that happened to somebody went to them and came. We came up with this new technology. Do you want to use it in your phone and Google was like sure like that. I don't think that kind of stuff is the thing where people can go in and ask someone to make for. Yeah Google Lozada Material Science Company. That's that's not achieve and I think that goes to show with the component choices to the Pixel for this year. You know. They're using basically really the same Sony Image Sensor they use last year like they're not even bothering to upgrade to the latest and greatest stuff because it's too expensive like I've heard like the new hundred eight megapixel pixel Sony sensors or like forty dollars or something a piece like they're expensive for a phone part but companies like read me and like Samsung. You'RE GONNA to start using them immediately. Because they know like got to have those mega pixels. Because guess what everybody's doing these stupid like specs. She comparisons and I think it's Google's Guls. Frugal Ness is probably hurting them. Worst now with the phones would even like four years ago. Because it's it's hard to differentiate it's hard to stand out Emini. Germany used stuff that's objectively less good than your competitors like you're just setting yourself up for all these negative comparisons. Yeah they they do a great job of of propping up their their crappy old camera sensor with great software. But I don't really like that I feel like it's a shame I sit there. I think well what what could Google's camera team do with a modern camera sensor like what could shift in a way phone or yeah one of those hundred hundred megapixel like whatever things it just they just keep shipping. The same stuff likely will call it a software defined camera and it's like okay. Yeah but you shouldn't keep the same hardware year. After year like upgrade everything it would be so much better if they could yeah and so good question from the chat here is do we feel. There's a five year future for Pixel as phone brand. I don't know I did put that in my my review like if if this were if the pixel line was a google software project it would it would probably be up for cancellation soon. I feel like hardware requires more of a of of a commitment than software and I feel like there's some behind the scenes motivation to do this the the android people still tell you like this is the phone that we develop android on like we need if nothing else. We need to build a phone that we can use for development that that we have schematics and source to and all that stuff Did they wouldn't get from a third party. And so because this I mean that's why the next line started. It was like because we have to do this anyway. We might as well just release it and and like I think the best case scenario is they go back to a more next style thing where they're like. Yeah we're not going to release like a pixel five. It's just going to be a series kind of price point and I think if they did that it would be fine because if you if you can't compete with people on execution and specs and stuff compete with with an on price and that's fine. Yeah and I you know but Google is built up this whole like they had this image. They've created now where we are a hardware company company. You know we need to be talked about in the same sentence as apple and Samsung. That really has been clearly. The goal of the Pixel team like. That's why they make laptops. It's like there is no good reason for Google to be a laptop company like why unless literally the laptops they make. The people who work at Google can't use them because they don't run on the software necessary for those people to do their damn jobs. Like how can you like. It's one of those things where they're doing it for completeness like they're doing it because like oh well you know. Apple has laptops. Microsoft has laptops Samsung has laptops. We should also have a laptop to fill out our ecosystem and the just doesn't make any sense ans- whereas with the phones like there's at least a reason for Google to make a phone like they make the world's most popular operating system so it makes sense they should have a reference device like tested on but the whole shift like making it a consumer brand and like heavy on advertising. Like if you live in the San Francisco area so you see Pixel billboards everywhere like they really advertised the hell out of that foam but I just feel like that. Google has not brought this together in a way where I feel like it's actually a serious business. They spend money like it's a serious business probably but I've got the sense of like who goal is really he like especially like one of the big things like you know just like comparative testing. Like how do you. How does your product stack up against the stuff you're allegedly trying compete with? It seems like Google just doesn't care about that at all like they. They actively ignore what everybody else is doing. Yeah it's it's totally baffling baffling. It's very what Jewish brought up. HCC in the chat like Google bought a bunch of HCC. I want to use the phrase. They bought the HDZ employees. But that's wrong they they acquired. HDC's like manufacturing division or part of their manufacturing division and like the Pixel for the whole Pixel Six aligned reminds me a lot of htc phones where it's like here's this device that is completely oblivious to the market and a new one comes out every year and it's very expensive and it doesn't really we have a lot of features or anything that that stand out from the crowd. It's just here. Here's a new device and we're GONNA do this every year until we give up an kind of coast along on the bottom of the market and that is where the Pixel Line is. I think they have like zero point. Three percent market share according to and you know they only sell these phones in like fourteen countries. Instead of the hundred in seventy you can buy a Samsung phone in and it. It's just so they seem so not serious about building a smartphone. And at this point I'm just asking like why. Why are we doing this? Who is this for? What purpose does it serve to to continue dispelling smartphone division like we we all gave the first model the benefit of the doubt? But like it's been four years now and is the pixel line growing or getting better or doing things better like no all of the same problems with the Pixel one are still here here. It's still poorly distributed. The design is like years behind or at least a year or two behind the competition. Software is cool but like companies are catching up to that and nothing's changed over four years and it's time to to not be so nice about it. Yeah I have to agree. This is the first ear like I felt like. If somebody like people have asked me like Oh should I buy the new pixel is a good. Because they've always recommended them in the past generally speaking and this year I'm like no. You probably shouldn't like just don't like if you really wanna Google phone go by the three a xl. It's going to be on sale on black Friday and get if like I stupid cheap like and if you don't like if you just want a good phone I just I've been telling everybody to buy the one plus seven t I might now. You should just go by that like it's much better use of your money like keep it for two years resell it. You'll be able to upgrade whatever you want it'll keep most of its value like with Pixel phone part of it like it's just been so frustrating to me. Google actively undermines the resale value of their smartphones actively. Make themselves for way less this money because like within of course like a month of found coming out they're gonNA chop two hundred dollars off of it and of course they'll sell fair. They'll sell probably way more over black Friday Friday than they did during lunch and the resale price of their phones on the market will go down probably about two hundred dollars like and then we'll have more and more sales and they'll we'll just get cheaper and cheaper and eventually like a use pixel is worth like a bag of peanuts. It's it really is sad and you go like to go trait in like. They're not even trying to cultivate loyalty. which is baffling to me? Like if you have a pixel xl and you won't upgrade to the four xl. Google offer you like some like really insultingly lead low amount of money for your foam because their trade and values are based on market values from their reconditioning partner. Like they're not just like sucking it up. In subsidizing the cost of upgrading upgrading for older customers. It'd be like that's what we're giving you because that's what our our reconditioning partner says they're willing to bay like it's just so insulting. Yeah I'm I'm the same as you. I have no desire to use pixel for for my daily. I mean there's one all my desk somewhere and I'm just I'm not interested in using it. I'm Zine one plus seven pro with the fancy fancy pop up camera I even at even at two hundred hundred dollars off. Is that a good deal for Pixel for like if a picture four had a one plus logo on the back of it. How much would it cost? Yeah exactly and I think that number probably around around five hundred dollars. Yeah I don't I don't want to pay for two hundred dollars off. It's still too expensive. Yeah I and you know one plus to me has been like increasingly the reason I just can't support you know Google's pricing because one plus is phones have gotten pretty damn good period like there's not a lot of but to one pluses phones any more like there. Are things like yeah. They won't give it a water resistance rating and I don't really understand why it's probably because OPO doesn't know how to build water some phones but like everything else also bowed screens really good charges stupid fast like the battery. Life's pretty decent. You know the screen Ryan doesn't screen as much but I think it's totally fine. The cameras are decent didn't passable. They work like not amazing but honestly like they produce better images than Samsung phones. Do and a lot of situations so you couldn't say that about one plus like three years ago sure the Google Pixel takes better pictures but most people are not going to care about marginally subjectively better pictures as compared to. Oh by the way the other one costs like three hundred fifty dollars less and actually performs better And probably most people like it more more quite frankly yen what did it from. I got android tenant fifteen days on the Euro one plus killing it with the updates. These days they're proving that like Google's all of their claimed advantages and like. Oh well because we run android we know how to android best. No actually I trust one plus two probably put out like a phone with fewer day one critical bugs than Google at this point like the behavior of my pixel xl like. There's so many like weird little things where it's like. This is normal Google but guys you've been doing this for like nine years like you can't launch a phone that works properly like day one. It's just it's insanely aggravating. Yeah Oh man did you. Did you see the Stadia Day. One issues to people have controllers but no access codes to use the certainly rocking and man like one of the things like the the game crashed like server side and I think destiny to runs it medium settings on Stadia. So it's like worse than xbox yet. Google watches everything like that. It's all it's all stuff that's completely broken. Broken on release it needs to be updated weeks months afterwards and yet. It's it's a mess it's rough. That's why I finally like after years. There's like a couple of years of using promo switched back to Windows on my laptop. I'm like I'm done with this. I I waited for years for like get it together with chrome and and they never have like chrome still basically the same operating system was like five years ago. Yeah I think Lennox made it worse and more complicated and more annoying oh the android support is like literally the worst thing. I stopped using any ANDROID APPS on my chromebook because they behave horribly buggy. They break stuff like just not good. The file handling situation ration- is a actual nightmare getting chrome os to talk to the Android apps and like what files they've stored is like not explained anywhere in any kind of good detail l.. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't like just things like that. Google is very happy. It feels like sometimes to leave things broken because they're like well most people don't use it that way or care about it and it's like well guys like those edge cases are water defining your products in the press in media. Like when your stuff doesn't do the stuff that everybody else's stuff does well guess what people are going to focus on like if handling files on chromosomes a nightmare. What do you think the people are going to focus on when they review like chrome laptop? They're probably going to focus on that. Yeah but also like. I don't think it's insane to look at a chrome os laptop and be like. Yeah okay. Cool look I need content creation tools photoshop. Some kind of video editor things like that and Lennox doesn't really fix those problems. ANDROID doesn't really fix those problems. They they seem to not have a problem. Complicating the operating system. But they don't WanNA complicated implicated in a way that I feel like would broaden the consumer base more 'cause I feel like content creation is pretty common market for people to target it. I mean you see apple ads for things like exclusively target that it's like. Oh you can draw on our tablets and and make videos and stuff on our MAC books and and don't like apple owns that market like trying to go after it. Yeah it's aspirational. I think that's like one of the things that like when I talked to people like under Google team about like what the pixels can do like the there. was that podcast that the verge had with one of the camera leads and they're like well. Why doesn't the Pixel Ford you four K.? Sixty video like why doesn't record and he's like well. Basically eighty percent of people are never going to use that feature and it takes up a bunch of storage so why why why. We didn't think it was worth doing like we just thought that wasn't a necessary feature for our phone and it's like well guys all of your competitors funds have this and if storage is the complaint you could put more storage in the phone. I don't know I think it was Nikolai. Who is like? Don't you own youtube like rises. This is the perfect thing to hear. Record this thing with video and send it to you to like get some cross companies this energy going or like just the basic things like android has not does not have a competent video. Editing application doesn't exist like Google goal like you said company that owns Youtube Company that like has the platform with like the most content creators and would have like probably a very receptive audience too like building an inhouse like video editing and creation tool like they. They're totally uninterested in because it's too big. It's too hard hard like they've had honeycomb yes I remember that. Say That yes. He made one briefly for honeycomb. And it's just like there's no will incite google to do anything. It feels like that doesn't conform to the whole well. Eighty percent of people do acts like if we're talking about that other twenty percent of people those don't those don't matter like we're not going to build products that specification because that's silly. We should focus our energy on the mass audience. It's like well guys like that twenty percent of people that you're not concerned with are the twenty percent of people telling the eighty percent of people where the spend their money and like what's good Yo. Hey Yo influencers. I'm sure all the public relations people will tell you to go for influences but I could care they. They really don't seem to anyway I think we've we've ragged on Google enough today. I seen it. There seems to be a lot of harping on Google. Going on in this podcast lately in the Middle East. That is my fault but they have to me. That's not your they. They deserve it. They have so frustrated minutes and we found out today that like so the Pixel three is basically out of stock on the Google store. I it's it's gone there. Have they have the not pink three. Xl Now and that's all that's left. Yeah have they sold. Oh well because the pixel three. As out now so they don't have to sell the old versions anymore. I guess yeah because they they sold pixel two all the way through April this year like so this would be killing last generation to the phone six months early. Well I think they say stop manufacturing and then they sell it until they're gone. Yeah I guess so it just never one of those things like well you know. It's actually it's good to do that in the sense because like look what apple does with it. They use it to create like a tier structure for their phones. We're like okay. You don't have money to buy an iphone eleven pro but you can buy an iphone eight or like an iphone Had A regular old iphone ten in their way cheaper. Think the iphone eight is like four hundred fifty dollars something like that. Yeah I think the IPHONE line probably has like okay cohesive manufacturing machine and every pixel phone. Seems like it's been formed completely from MM scratch and is unrelated to the other device. Yeah that's been a bit of an issue for them as well. Unfortunately I guess you know probably would be too expensive to keep manufacturing phones ones that don't sell as many copies at Foxconn but probably the least of Google's concern for their smartphone business Okay I think we We are running a little long at this point. So Ron thank you so much for coming on the show today to to rant with me sure thanks for having me. Yeah absolutely All the topics we talked about today can be founded I android police dot com slash. podcast live four times a week. That's three podcast. Monday Wednesday Friday around noon Pacific and on Tuesdays. We have cue natio- We'd love to hear your thoughts. Please send an email all to podcasts and android please dot com if you have feedback if it's negative feedback. Don't send it. I don't I don't need to hear it. Ron where can people find you Ours technical dot com for long articles and stuff If you wanna hear me wine about whatever is happening up to the minute that's twitter dot com slash random audio. That's a is my last name. Yeah okay on twitter I am. Rdr V. Three our producer. Jules Lang is at point. Jewels and our theme music is Zviad home. We're back again on Friday but until then take care and stay hydrated. I'm not sure with hydrates about but you should stay hydrated. That's important advice. Hey you guys don't have stay hydrated just which means.
Episode 74: Michael Lenox, co-author of Can Business Save the Earth?
"This is taking care in business. A podcast dives into the topic of corporate social responsibility from many different perspectives host. Kathy Potty Hayes is an expert in CSSR and philanthropic giving and her co host Vikki. Bolson is the founder and CEO of Bulletin Group A unified marketing company. That was also the first B. Corp Certified Company in Indiana Cathy. Vicky became friends and equally passionate about CSSR when they first worked together several years ago. Join them as they talk about why it is always worthwhile to take care in business. Hey Vicky Hey Kathy how's it going? I am great. We have a special guest here today. I know I only have fewer days left with her. So I'm excited I everyone. I'm Grace Vicki's oldest daughter. Yes so she just graduated early from Oberlin. Crazy at went by so fast at least for me why it was early but it still seemed like it went by really quickly. So what are you going to be doing now? Grace so for the spring I'm going to be wolfing Worst stands for worldwide opportunities on organic farms and different countries. Join and you get a membership. So I'm actually going to Hawaii I'll be starting at like a hostel for scientists and then going to an actual farm and then a community that's trying to be one hundred percent peaceful so I'm really excited and roof is the organization that I you know. I told you she had done Puerto Rico and and so we've reached out to move and if anyone who knows wolf is listening we want you on our podcast. Yes we do. Yeah so anyway. She's she's leaving next week and as She's a fan of the podcast. I tell her all the time yes I love it. I actually helped research on before Kathy and Vicky decided to do a podcast. They were maybe going to write a book and I was like podcasts. Are Really taking off so I'm glad this is what you guys are doing. It's awesome I think she cast okay. Well she's one of those millennials that really cares about our earth and so I'm going to ask you a Walker as I introduce our guests. I'm nasty okay Do you think business can save the Earth? I do? Okay good I I agree and so And I just wrote Chitchat and then I said I think we'd agree that a lot of today's environmental and social issues are driven by irresponsible. Business practices and on this podcast. We highlight people and companies that have chosen to use. The power of business is a force for good so I love the of the Book Can Business Save the Earth? I mean wow. This might seem like a rather haughty topic but with decades of research behind it and as faculty member of the Business School at the University of Virginia. Michael Lenox Dell's into this topic from a practical standpoint. For instance in one of his chapters. He writes business cannot save the Earth without consumers choosing sustainable goods and services from available alternatives. Right I love this. I mean to me that means businesses and consumers need to be intentional in their purpose practices. How do we transition to a sustainable future? This is a big topic. But I'm excited to have Michael here today to dive into it and take a bit talk a bit more about what we can glean from his book and at the end of this episode will even tell you how you can win a copy of it. So stay tuned to the end Hi Michael How are you today? I'm doing well. Thank you for having me your welcome. We're glad to have you here. Yeah delighted so how did get the inspiration to write this book so This is work that I've been doing going back really to even the early nineteen nineties but long been interested in environmental issues I studied as an economist and got very interested. at that interface between business and sustainability. And so this was really a labor of love that kind of grew out of work. I'm doing for the past twenty five years you so you are a professor at Uva What talk about The class that you that you teach and the Just your impression of the overall Generation of students that you're teaching right now yes so. I teach primarily are NBA Teach Business Strategy and I would say that you definitely have seen a greater awareness About environmental issues and sustainability I think this is a generation. That definitely cares deeply about these issues. I think also pragmatic they. They WanNa talk about solution How how do we address things like climate change? These are obviously critical issues that we all are facing but they are facing as well and so I think they want to understand you. Know How do you leverage is in this organization to help Help solve some of the challenges. We face well. I know that's an area that my daughter is really concerned about whenever we have conversations at home about politics or the earth we just get so fired up Ryan Grace. Yeah I think it's just Crazy that we haven't been talking about this as much In the past like that. It's just now really becoming the forefront of the conversation to me by. I'm happy that I'm at that age where I can be part of the solution I'm curious do your students have a sense of hope or are they kind of experiencing Eko anxiety. I think you know as as more and more data comes in and more and more stories come in especially around climate change. I think it's hard for all of us to remain optimistic. I'm very optimistic by nature and and I do think there are no possibilities here for addressing the issues we face. It's incredibly daunting. If you think about something like climate change we basically need to decarbonised the global economy by roughly twenty fifty or so and that is a very tall order. That's you know. Potentially one hundred percent electric vehicles one hundred percent renewable energy or the Euro carbon-emitting Electrical generation and you kind of go down the list so it is incredibly daunting but at the same time You know I think there are solutions here and on the horizon. I think there's greater political will though it's still not where it needs to be an clearly just kind of general kind of societal sentiment is kind of turning more and more attention to these issues couldn't be going to be any sooner. I think that businesses are great communities To make people feel like they're not alone in the issues that were trying to solve that as we argue in the book you know a lot of them are hate him. Business markets are going to be part of the solution the way acknowledges find their way into the into our homes and into the marketplace and they're going to have to be part of the solution so Michael. What kind of strategies do you think business could employ in terms of trying to out how they can plug into? You know saving the Earth you know if you think about kind of evolution and in business and environmental issues over the last twenty thirty years. I think there was an earlier time period where it was really just about combined. It was all about what regulations were said and how they would respond to them. Very legalistic interpretation. I think as time went on there was a recognition that there were some opportunities here both in terms of consumers who demand green products in terms of creating efficiency and your operations by addressing way streams. And the like that you create. I think the the current World Generation. We're moving into is one has to recognize that there are opportunities in terms of new products and services. And I do a lot on kind of disruptive technology like that there are wholesale ways to rethink. How you deliver value that can be more sustainable And again I take a lot of focus on technology but again you can think of electric vehicles rise renewable energy Or just in general you know kind of burgeoning set of green technology. You said something to me that I wrote down that really resonated with me and it was your strategist challenge. Remember that part of our conversation. Can you just explain that to our listeners? I think it's really. It's a great starting point. Yeah this is something we teach in our first year. Nba Strategy Classes. This Perhaps simple idea that valuable competitive positions valuable competitive strategies firms emerge out of the intersection of The values of the Organization. The opportunities market is creating and then the capability of your station. I think sometimes there's a tendency to maybe downplay the values But it's absolutely critical. There's a lot of discretion in business. There's a lot of discretion even publicly traded firms to choose where you put your attention. What market you plan and ultimately what values you bring to the marketplace and I think sometimes we We don't talk about that enough And emphasize that enough for business that they have discretion in choice here about who they are and I think that people my age really care about the values of the place that they want to work Do you think that something that you've seen change and your students that they're carrying more about the businesses values Absolutely I think you know. There's such a war for talent. These days to in beating technology companies and others They understand that that you know people are looking more than just the paycheck. They're looking for the quality of life company that worked for the purpose of that company. All of those. I think have lead companies to understand that you know. These aren't just nice to have. These are critical to their functioning able to express that values and how they're trying to live by them. What did he say when Because sometimes I get this like if I pop out. My you know reusable. Strada restaurant or you know I pick up some litter in the parking lot of the grocery store and I get looks from people who feel like we're not going to save the world with your little action. What do you? What do you say to someone that Reacts THAT WAY TO SOMEBODY. Who's trying to do something to help? Yeah you know one of the big kind of perspectives. We have in our book. Is this idea that you have to view it as a system And business markets operating a larger kind of social political system and so at the end of the day when you have a large complex system It's very hard to design the system or to kind of force it you know with. Just one kind of lever to make things happen and so one of things we talk a lot about is that you have to really be thinking of all the available levers available and so that means you know the only way you move the system forward is actually through a whole bunch of smaller changes There there is no silver bullet. We talked quite a bit about the book. It's going to solve these issues. It's GonNa have to take the concerted effort of millions and millions of different actors. Pushing little levers available so then to move the system towards sustainable future So probably true. You're not GonNa Save the Earth by you know. Just switching your straws. You eventually but again. No one has the one lever. That's going to change the whole system so so we all have a responsibility and a role to play and in terms of Creating attractive products to sort of this changing market. How do you feel like businesses responding to that? I think I think there's a couple of ways to think about it. I think we've long had smaller Market Opportunities for Green Products Green conscious consumers And that's existed for for decades. I think that kind of percentage if you will. The consumers is growing I think the number of people care about these issues is growing But I actually think it's really fascinating. Is that in some instances. We're seeing technologies. We're seeing products that maybe simply deliver value in the kind of traditional ways you would expect outfit's an automobile good driving handling maybe lower cost efficient and on those merits alone the green choice the quote unquote green choice can start to win and I think for a lot of businesses who care about sustainability care about the environment you know being able to generate and understand those opportunities is really powerful because then you're not just simply relying on the kind of goodwill of customers to buy green but you're actually creating new products or is that on one hand address some of our sustainability challenges but on the other hand or highly desirable marketplace. You told me during our pre interview that you really heated up the writing of this book during the Most recent recession. Yeah you know I think one of the evolution and I own thinking if I had done a lot of work on kind of large corporation but they have Done or not done restart to environmental issues and I think a big change in my own mindset was getting back to this idea of the change needed within different technologies and different industries and definitely in the wake of kind of the two thousand eight financial crisis and recession was thinking that you know when we have disruptive change it's often newer companies entrepreneurs and the like enter markets and transform them so it might not be about getting oil and gas companies to become sustainable adopt renewable energy more likely from what we know from the economic is. You're GONNA have displacement. You're going to have companies going out of business while do what's rise up to replace them with again. Hopefully more sustainable technology this is. I guess it would be the. What would you call it? The top five tips for for dummies. It's like the books for Dummies What would be if you were going to give our listeners? You know three or five tips of something that they should be doing differently. So that can save the Earth. What would those things be is just a consumer is just the consumer well I've just done a series of reports where you've been looking at this again. Potential to decarbonised different Sectors one of the most challenging one is agriculture And in particular one of the most challenging pieces of agriculture is actually And so I think number one thing you could probably do it or consume less be because it is a significant greenhouse gas emission from cows from cattle And that in itself could I think have a huge impact and be and be one. That's otherwise very difficult Difficult to address and we did see like beef. Consumption has gone down I think in the last year so as veganism eating plant paces kinda taking off I I eat mostly that way. So it's great to hear that's being confirmed by the business people she was. You know the real concern is how do you do that? On a on. A local basis growing population and the storage safely as countries become a more advanced in their economies They also tend to you. Know demand more protein rich diet and so while there might be pockets in the United States that are consuming less teeth. You Know How do you do that on? A on a global scale especially in places like China or Africa and other kind of growing a growing areas. Okay so that was one. I think I think the other kind of interesting thing that's happening. I think have a lot of potential this. We look at to other sectors transportation and energy. There is a a take maybe a vision. That's starting to be realized where one could imagine Having almost more self sufficiency in terms of your energy usage in which if you're you know Fortunate enough to be in position where you could put solar panels on your home having an electric vehicle in the garage. Habit battery storage In that garage as well and then be able to trade those electrons on a smart grid with your local utility a lot of the technologies that just named become much more economically attractive for individual consumer As they as you kind of bundle them together. So it's it's not necessarily what an individual can do In of themselves. But as you kind of see these new technologies start to reverse the leveraging of smart technology in the home for Chrissy energy efficiency all of those together really a lot of promise here To kind of reduce your your own personal carbon footprint so Michael. How can our listeners learn more about you and your book so You know encourage you to look up my work Either at my My website I want not Michael Lennox Dot Com which talks about my book and some of my other work as well I have a series of reports that we just did on business innovation climate change again that looks at the possibilities of different sectors decarbonising And I'm actually working on a follow up book looking very specifically at climate change again this possibility of decarbonising by twenty fifty great well We are going to post on our instagram page. Information on how you can win a copy of the book so Go to our instagram. Page and follow the instructions and Maybe you'll be one of the lucky people who can Read the book But if somebody doesn't win Can they purchase the book Absolutely book on yeah through Amazon or through Stanford University press or any number of outlets avail. Well thank you Michael. We really appreciate the time he spent with us today. Thank you for the opportunity So I am really excited for taking care and community this nomination this week because this is an organization. That's near and dear to my heart in that My son Ethan was part of at Your School A. Y. S. services When he was in elementary school and the nomination is for crystal Stroman. Who is the CEO of at your school or as many of us know A yes and crystal is somebody. She's just I don't really know her but she's somebody that I've worked in and around and is greatly respected For the work that she does. I was excited to see the nomination. But do you know about a i? They provide before and after school. Care right -actly at there at the school which is really nice so The the the organization provides before and after school program for children of three thousand working families throughout central. And that's really the great thing is is that it's at your school. So when you're mixing simple little teeny weeny. Little Kid is done with Their School Day. They can you know. Walk down the hall and go to the gym and play and Get some homework support and be in a safe environment so that they don't have to go home by themselves. Great and thanks to National Bank of Nepal's for letting US provide this Public Service announcement to our listeners. Let's give a big thank you to our sound engineer. Matsui and are taking care and community sponsor National Bank of Indianapolis if you'd like to nominate someone or an organization for a future episode. You can visit our website taking here in business dot com. Don't forget to subscribe. Follow our download taking care of business wherever you get our podcast. If you love taking care of business give us a five star rating and leave a review or share this episode on your social media. We are on instagram twitter and facebook at taking care in Biz B. I Z. If you have questions or comments you can also email us at info at taking care. In BUSINESS DOT com. Thank you for joining us today. And until next time take care in business.
Season 2 Trailer!
"In early March Twenty Twenty Joey K goal showed up in the podcast scene with his podcast jokes stove weeks at. He went on to talk about cryptocurrency unions and tech programming languages to learn at the current epidemic and more that was season one and season two. We up the game. I'm Joey K goal ended season two of Joey's totally tech. We will have more product reviews and bring in guests to the podcast. Will take your calls the tech line at nine, eight, own, nine, nine, nine, O, eight, three, five that's nine eight, zero, nine, zero, t e K as well as the Joey's totally tech community at least totally tech dot com slash community. So feel free to ask your tech questions on either of those on the podcast we'll be talking about Lenox. Terminal patients of the upcoming Gaming Consoles PC games, tech careers, and more. New episodes are released publicly starting September fourteenth listened Matt Joey's totally Tech Dot. com or get an early review by subscribing to the Joey's totally tech exclusives at Jones. Totally TAT DOT com slash exclusive and I will catch you next how. The. Dome. Though. Listen on Joey's totally tech dot com or your favorite podcast now.
Why Toyota Is Betting on Hybrid Technology
"Podcast is brought to you by knowledge award. Japanese car company Toyota recently announcing it's going to share its patents for hybrid vehicle technology for free until the year twenty thirty. This includes some to twenty four thousand patents, which they hope will advance the use of hybrid vehicles around the world in years to come hybrids have both a combustion engine and an electric motor offer high fuel efficiency with low emissions. The Prius was the first mass produced hybrid car and contributed to the thirteen million hybrids that Toyota has sold over the years, but other automakers have moved to a more towards electric vehicles all electric vehicles. Something Toyota has not done. The automaker is pushing the idea that hybrid technology will end up being more effective than EV's. This move also opens up the potential for other automakers to use Toyota hybrid parts and pay fees for consultation services with more. We are joined on the phone by John Paul mcduffie management professor here at the world and director of the program on vehicle mobility in. Asian at the MAC institute. Also with us Michael lenox business, professor associate dean and chief strategy officer with the university of Virginia Darden school of business. John Paul gray Chevy back with his Michael, Debbie. Joining the show good to be here. Thank you as well. Thank you Michael start with you. It is interesting. I think that that Toyota is taking the stance that hybrids as you move down the road are going to be the better option. It feels like. I I wonder if that's really the truth here behind this. When I when I think about what might be going on here. I think there's maybe a couple of things I I do think we're seeing a transition to all electric hundred percent electric, and when we look at like sales of hybrid vehicles and the kind of decline in the US and the continued growth of electric vehicles. Are we in the midst of transition here? So one of the arguments for why you know, Toyota might be making this this play is impart to leverage the assets already have and hybrids as that technology shifts. So again, selling that technology, what might even be excess capacity to others, especially in China. The second interesting thing that I think is going on as if if we are moving to electric, you can think interior ways there'd be battery powered electric, but there could also be fuel cells, and Toyota's publicly stated that they're betting on you'll cells. And so this might be impart a play to try to win a standards battle. As we move forward with one hundred percent electric vehicles. And thinking that you know, we have had, you know, especially with your mind battery-powered vehicles from Tusla and P D And others are kind of in the weed at this point, maybe an attempt to try to bring fuel cells in more into play than they than they currently are jump all your thoughts. Yeah. I mean, the if you'll saw angle is certainly important to keep in mind cause third has been saying that for while that they think fuel cells, the more promising future, technology and hybrids or the transitional technology, and and something I didn't hadn't caught my attention until I read some of these new stories as Toda open its patents on fuel cells back a bunch of years ago. Twenty fifteen no real evidence on how much that's been taken up. It's there's no other automaker. I can think of that's as bullish on fuel cells as Toyota, but certainly others are looking at it as well. So, you know, I do think the toad has had a genuine belief that hybrids are better transitional technology from internal combustion to whatever the future is. And they went on record for awhile fairly boldly to say that they thought fully electric battery electric vehicles were not ready for prime time that they're just too many ways in which they weren't going to provide everything that. Customers wanted now in the surge of interest and competitor action around full about electric vehicles. So this kind of backed off from that, you might almost say public critique, and they're saying that they are going to bring forward some battery electric vehicles or their own. I'm pretty confident that it is knowledge depth on this technology is deep enough that they can do that that they can bring like your vehicles to market as quickly as they want to. But I think they, you know, they're they're leveraging something that they've already got in the bag which is in disputed dominance in hybrids, and why not see if they can get some more leverage out of that by selling the component selling some consulting services at cetera. Parts of me. And the fact that they are seemingly willing to to have their components in other vehicles, the consulting services. I I understand as part of the process, and the, and they believe that they are a leader in this area. But the selling components really is interesting, and maybe wonder jump all about the types of partnerships. That Toyota may be looking at down the road. Yeah. You know, I mean tutor set up a separate electron IX subsidiary back when they were doing the early work before preseason launch. And everyone was surprised because they had a strong partnership within. So which is probably the strongest automotive electronics firm in the world, maybe Bosh in that same category. And the reason really was that they wanted to patent. They wanted to lock up all the patents on the Prius hybrid drive train, and they did. And you know, it's been around for quite a while. They have licensed it to other manufacturers. I remember that Nissan license it for a while. And then decided, you know for us to be the third or fourth carmaker in the market with a hybrid would which is not our technology doesn't do much good. We're going to go straight to battery electric, and that's when they did the leaf. So, you know, it's it's it's been around others could have made a big bet on if if they had wanted it's not clear that too. It is going to see a rush to buy these components, but it is true. That with China putting a high priority as a as a government policy on moving towards electric future, maybe hybrid, they'll find a way to meet some of their governments ambitious goals on the way to full battery electric, but does it feel like Michael also that as Toyota may be moved forward with with some of these ideas that the styles of the cars that they will be building with with hybrid technology or maybe partnering with others to build. We'll we'll have a little more zest to them. I obviously a lot of people talk about the Prius. And and it's you know, it's affordability, and what it brings to the average consumer. But then you look on the other side with the EV side, and what tesla is trying to do with some of the the more high end vehicles that they have. Yeah. I think one of the things that maybe has been surprising to again with kind of success that tesla and others have had with electric vehicles is the value proposition for electric vehicles can be quite strong because it has other parts of functionality that they offer in terms of performance in handling terms of acceleration that that maybe add value even beyond just the cost of them would worry about. And so I would be worried if I was Toyota that hybrid again, we've all seen as a transitional technology to actually fully electric, and it's not clear to me what the advantages of a hybrid over an electric vehicle are what about from the cost perspective. Once again, you know, one of the interesting things about electric vehicles is they're they're simple machines. They're basically a battery in an electric motor. Now, the concern, and of course, the cost dome. It is driven by the battery price. Right. So as battery prices have come down greatly in the last year, or so there is the potential there that I think that just swamps hybrid the hybrid market here. And I think that that to me seems to be what the writing on the wall is right now jumble. Yeah. I mean, hybrid is definitely a more complicated design. And I think that's one of the reasons not that many other automakers went hard after hybrid on Toda's, obviously, mastered it and figured out how to build it at scale. They figured out how to take it out of just one, you know, branded product the Prius and put it in pretty much their whole product line. And I think they've promised. There will be a hybrid option pretty much across their product lines going going forward. You know, we've got a huge amount of stated intent to bring electric to the market by all kinds of makers, it's not just China. And you know, the Germans are Volkswagen particularly after diesel gate making very dramatic claims about how many models OB out there. We haven't seen the consumer demand yet. Why is that? So one might be the cost isn't quite comparible battery costs are coming down. As Michael said. I have a hunch that there's also. Even cost parity won't be enough to get widespread, adoption, there's gotta be a convenience factor that feels equivalent or some offsetting performance benefit for people who aren't already enthusiasts about the technology. And the charging issue is not a big deal if you live in the garage, but it's a big deal in a lot of other situations. And so I'm not quite as optimistic as Michael may be about seeing a surge in demand for vs. And you know, if you bring them to market, and they don't sell then it's going to be tough for these companies to keep on that Embiid time line. I think I predict hybrid sales will stick around for a little bit longer not growing, but providing that transitional product for quite a while, I wonder if there's if we really need to focus also on the fact that Toyota recently made the announcement about a new fifteen billion dollar investment in if acidity and projects you're in the US of what that is all going to entail. In terms of their product lines here in the United States. And if they, you know believe are and they continue to push forward on hybrids than I they obviously see that that gasoline is going to continue to be some sort of element here in the United States market. Yeah. I think you know, again as optimistic is I am on electric vehicles that, you know, this isn't going to happen tomorrow there going to be a transition phase here that will last years, and as a result, I think, you know, to the point just previously made that you know, there is absolutely going to be demand for hybrids and the in the short near-term here. So I think is they think about their strategies and those investments in the US increasing that portfolio of both hybrids, and then eventually Electric's makes total sense to me here. I do agree with the same at that. You know, we are seeing decline in hybrid sales. And I think we're gonna be seeing this transition, but it's gonna take it's gonna take a while. It's not gonna be again, the next twelve months and something everyone's buying electric vehicles. We're joined on the phone by John Paul mcduffie of the warden school Michael Lennox of. The university of Virginia. Your comments are welcome at eight four four Warton eight four four nine four two seven eight six or if you'd like Senator comment on Twitter at biz radio BIC radio one thirty two or my Twitter account, which is add Dan loan yellow any y twenty one jump all. I mentioned that this was the second time that that Toyota had done this yet. What was the impact the first time? You know, I don't know much about it. But my prediction would be or my guess would be that since other manufacturers aren't doing a lot with at least visibly that. They haven't picked up on it in a big way. It makes me wonder if these patents which some cases have been around for a while how much value they have to competitors in their overall technology strategy. You know, tesla made a big splash a couple years ago by offering to open up their patents for their charging technology. And you know, it was certainly a bid symbolically to look like a, you know. A tech company that that pursues open standards and his wants to advance of the future of this technology for everybody that certainly also looked like an effort to get a jump on the standards for charging in the future. So the more people that would adopt Tesla's charging technology, the more tesla would kind of control where that charging standard would go in the future. I haven't seen much evidence that any of Tesla's major competitors have gone after that, maybe some smaller companies have. So again, it was a it was a big splash. We all talked about it for a while. And it's not clear that it had that much impact on the general technology competition. If if other companies are going more whole hog into the EV world from the strategy perspective, as you said because of the fact that there is this gap between where we are now. And and maybe down the road in an all EV world or mostly EV world that their strategy is look let's focus on. In the next ten years, or whatever that timeframe is and will assess at that point. Yeah. I think that's accurate. I mean going back to this question. Like, why did tesla really, you know, release their patents? I totally agree. You know, they're standardization issues here that deaths lows probably trying to control them some way, or at least hope drive. I also think there's just a simple calculus here that at this point growth of the sector of electric vehicles is positive for all those about right? So as sex pickles become more, comfortable, people get maybe over the ranging Zayed's people have with electric vehicles that just helps tesla. So they're at a point in the markets. It's so nascent still we're just simply diffusing technology, whether it's Tessler others a positive for them. But as you can imagine as as competition increases into fusion increases that decision calculus will change, you know, quite a bit between these different players jump. All your thoughts. Yeah. No, I agree. And and you know, I mean for tesla to increase Susie has. About electric house. Tesla and helps the sector and helps it's Jim Assy. You know, in a funny way toad is obviously a giant and has been around for a long time. But if they can in any way, increase public willingness to move beyond internal combustion, and you know, if if they're gonna stop it hybrid a first step that helps too and it probably helps the transition to. So again, probably not much for Toyota to lose a lot of these patents are older, some of them, frankly may be relevant to appear electric vehicle because some of those components are probably usable in either format. So it's twenty four thousand patents. That's a lot of patents. And I doubt that they're all entirely tied up in the hybrid feature of the drive train again Toda's pretty deep knowledge on I I think for them to say, they don't think about electric vehicles already for prime time doesn't mean that they're underprepared and behind and just trying to dicit I think it means that they know it deeply, and that's their strategic, you know, and and competitive Cal. Relation at the moment. I kind of think from seeing turn in the past they tend to be slow getting going on things, but they can execute very quickly when they decide it's necessary. So I think if if battery electric really took off to put some models in the market that would be quite competitive. They might stumble for while. But I they would not be out of the game gentlemen. Great to have you with us. Thank you. John. Paul Michael heavy with us today. Pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you jump whole mcduffie from here at the Wharton school Michael Lennox at the university of Virginia for more insight from knowledge, please visit dot Morton dot U, Penn dot EDU.
Epidemic Response Part 1: Stories about past epidemics
"And now a game of commercial chicken brought to you by progressive where we see how long can go without talking about insurance ready. Go We. Guess we should talk about. How's the Vermicelli game in your town gotten a good Vietnamese restaurants. Vermicelli oh, it's a noodle very good drivers the switch to progressive. Save big. Okay you win. We can't help it save customers money. Progressive. Casualty. Insurance Company and affiliates. Science Story. He's nyu scientists the fell. Well tweeted out it was that golden moment because science was on my side. Hey everybody. Welcome to the story collider where we bring you true personal stories about science I'm your host Aaron Barker and this week representing stories about epidemics but not Kobe nineteen. These are stories from our back catalogue about epidemics of the past. Wanted to re share these stories with you all I because we feel they're so relevant to some of the conversations that are happening right now. But also because we're in the process of preparing our brand new podcast series, the stories of covid nineteen. and. These stories be like an apt introduction to that series. Our first story today is from Ken. How're it was recorded in May twenty seventeen at the Saint Louis storytelling festival the theme that night was equips. In the summer of Nineteen eighty-one, I was beginning my pediatrics residency at Lenox Hill Hospital on Manhattan's upper east side. The year before I. Don a rotating internship at NASA hospital in Mineola Long Island about ten miles from where I grew up in a town called Hicksville. Yeah, I know. It always been my dream growing up in those postwar tract house suburbs that someday I would live in New York City. Especially after I, I was old enough to be able to buy tickets to the long island railroad and go in by myself and see the skyscrapers in the parks in the museums and the Broadway shows. It wasn't until. It wasn't until that year though that it really happened and what was really best about it was that I was moving in with Bob Corsicato. My boyfriend. My partner. My. Lover. It was the eighties. Funny thing even though Bob and I met and became friends and fell in love in Omaha Nebraska, when we when we were both students at Creighton University. Bob Grew up and CEOS at Long Island about two miles from where I grew up. Kind of like we were always meant to be together like like Kismet. The. So the thing is that. When we both graduated from our respective programs. We moved east together and that first year I lived in hospital. Apartments in Mineola and he lives Parents House got a job in the city and would commute in each day on the train. So. Finally, after a year, we were going to live the dream and live in New York City. Now, for those of you who may not have been adults in the nineteen eighties. Or even on the planet. For Gay men to move in together in those days was kind of a big deal. I mean just three years before that Anita Bryant and her save our children coalition had succeeded in overturning a gay rights ordinance in Miami. Florida. By expounding on how horrible homosexuals were with children. And so it wasn't something did lightly. especially. If one of you was going to be going into a training program to become a doctor who takes care of kids. But Love would find a way. Now Lenox Hill Hospital. started out many many years ago as the German dispensary and nine hundred and eighteen, fifty seven. To serve the growing German community in New York's east side, and so basically, it really was a a community hospital and it had a very small pediatrics program only four residents in each of the three years. That meant that each of us spent a little bit of time at other hospitals, larger institutions to get sub specialty training that we just couldn't get it Lenox. Which is why in August of Nineteen eighty-one I found myself at Memorial Sloan Kettering. Then as now one of the premier cancer hospitals in the United States. To do my pediatric hematology, oncology rotation. I was taking care of kids from all over the world with cancer and Leukemia Memorial was the place where the mysterious cases were sent. For many including kids it was sometimes the hospital of last resort. Now, each morning, our team, the attending physician, the residents, the interns like myself and the The medical students. Would go down to the Radiology Department and go over the X. Rays have been done the day before with the with the radiologist. We just finished up when he said wait a minute I know you guys are but I want to show you this one film. It's really interesting. That's when he sort of rifled through the x rays are on his desk, picked one up and slapped it up on the backlog view box. Thank. You look at this. When you think. Silences. We regarded this strange film. In my head, I started to go through the checklist that I learned as a third year medical student about how to read a chest x Ray. Okay size and soft tissue. It appears to be thin adults probably mail since no breast shadows were evident. Good quality film no rotation heart size normal normal shape longs. Something about the lungs. For the most part, they were almost black fields indicating that the x rays have gone clear through the mostly air the lungs to expose the film behind. Interrupted at regular intervals by the gentle white arcs of the ribs bordering encircling the chest. But in the black where there should be nothing. More white something some things blocking the xrays. Floating in space. And looking like A. Giant cotton balls. Fluffy infiltrates is attorney radiologists sometimes use for for lesion such as these I thought I could rattle off a few things that my causes, but it would help to know more about the patient I knew my place. So the resident was the one who asked the question what's the history? twenty-seven-year-old previously healthy white male. and. I thought that makes no sense. This is the sort of thing that's usually seen in a fungal pneumonia and really old people. Yeah. The radiologist said he's been coughing for a few months anyone Wanna guess what this is. The attending said fundamentally I thought cool now that one. Nope the radiologists said clearly pleased that having stumped a clinician. Anyone else want to take a guess. Silence. The radiologist looked over the crowd and with a sly smile he said. Numa Sister Serena. Ammonia. Is Audience. Did Not disappoint this revelation actually brought a gas from the attending for myself. I thought. That's impossible. Nemesis thought to be a Protozoan and a very rare cause of disease in otherwise healthy human beings. In fact, my only previous experience with to come the year before when I was doing a a month of internal medicine at the at Nasa Hospital and I saw this woman in her late eighties who? was diagnosed with the just before her death. For to be president someone this young and this healthy was inconceivable. The attending was was mirroring my thoughts. How do you know that's it? Pulmonary did a biopsy. But shouldn't your next question be what's in the MONJA DOING MEMORIAL We looked at each other. Yeah. It should why indeed what an infectious pneumonia be admitted to a cancer hospital? Again the radiologist scan the crowd. And said. Because he was originally referred here for Kaposi Sarcoma. Again audience was thunderstruck. Kaposi. Sarcoma is a form of skin cancer. They're often looks like a bluish Purple Bruise and in fact, most people think it is a bluish purple bruise until they realize after weeks or sometimes months, it hasn't gone away. That's when they go to the doctor to have it checked out and they get the bad news. But again, it was only seen in very old sick people whose immune systems route working what was going on with this twenty seven year old. Yeah. So the guy comes in. They find out he's been coughing. And they get this chest x ray he's been losing weight they find out it's Numa sisters and their stumps. They talked to other docs around town they find out that is not the only one with this stuff going on. I mean like five six cases like this pretty much like it right here in new. York. And you will have in common. They're all homosexual. I don't know if I broke into a sweat I, I imagine that my face flush and I'm pretty sure that my heart started pounding one of the jackhammers out on. York Avenue. I stared at the x Ray for something. What Wait a minute the attending said I read something about this and Morbidity and mortality weekly report these clusters of homosexuals coming down with these diseases here, San, Francisco Atlanta. This is one of them. The radiologists said as if he were presenting a rare white tiger. Assis- Carini I- Kaposi Sarcoma Fluffy infiltrates. I'd heard things I'd seen. In the pit of my stomach I knew I would see them over and over and over again. In hospitals and clinics in bars. In friends. Something bad was happening and then this guy, this twenty, seven year old he could be me someday I wondered. WHAT IBM? I don't remember that much more of the conversation that followed as as people start talking about what they'd heard and hadn't heard what they knew and didn't know about these clusters of cases. Someone says something about sexual spreads someone else something about a term sheet heard for colgate lung disease someone else made a wise crack about faggots. I stood silent staring at patterns of shadow and light. Once I got back to the in patient floor. I had a lot of kids to take care of, and it really didn't give me time to think much about this guy. This with this. This. Thing with no name. It wasn't until much later as I finished my work and I was walking slowly the fifteen block back to my apartment at second. Avenue. Near eightieth in the dark still hot August evening that I. I started to feel the unease of the morning return. Home late that night Bob was there. Already eaten as usual. How Long Day I said Yeah. He. Fix me a plate. As. Usual. De Long Day I said as I looked up at him. Almost examining him. At night I held Bob in bad as we slapped and I listened to his breathing his strong healthy and I wondered about the future. I wanted this moment to last forever. I didn't know them at this twenty-seven-year-old Guy I would never meet would be one of first. Gay Men diagnosed with. Something that would. Briefly be called grid for Gay Related Immune Deficiency. And later would become known to the world as acquired, Immune Deficiency Syndrome or AIDS, and that a virus that would be dubbed you know human immunodeficiency virus had already spread to many of my friends and that many of them would die in the coming years. I didn't know then the Bob and I would split up three years later. But that we become very best friends very soon after that, we would remain best friends until he died at the age of thirty six. On thanksgiving weekend nineteen ninety-four. Bob would come to me in a dream and nineteen ninety-seven a dream, which I know to be a real visitation against all reason all science. Because, it was briefly interrupted by a phone call which I did not answer, but which I found out later. was from Bob's mother who was calling and said, she felt compelled to call it that moment just ask how I was. I did not know then that in that dream, Bob would comfort me. Tell me that he was a piece that death was nothing to fear. That he would always be with me and he would always love. Kismet. That this day would mark the split between before and after in my life and that I would be one of the survivors to tell the story of my people. I didn't know any of this as I held my love on that sultry night in August as he slept peacefully in my arms. Or earlier that day as I stood frozen in the dark staring the chest x ray of a nameless doom twenty seven year old gay man. As I finally fell. into trouble sleep that life as I knew it. Had changed forever. Thank you. That was Ken Holler. I'm proud to say that Ken is a member of the story Collider Board of directors. He's also a professor of pediatrics at the Saint Louis University School of medicine and Cardinal Glennon Children's hospital he served on the boards of the Arts and Education Council of Greater, St., Louis, Saint Louis University Library Associates, and the Gateway Media Literacy project and has served on many others. He's a frequent spokesperson and local and national media on the healthcare needs of children and adolescents as well as an accomplished actor produced playwright in acclaimed cabaret performer in twenty fifteen, he was named Best Saint Louis Cabaret performer by the Saint Louis Post dispatch. For we continue on to our next story, I WANNA remind you all about our live online shows we have live online show's happening several times a month you can hear never before heard science stories told live and tonight we actually have a slam a show where you can put your name in the virtual hat for the chance to be invited Onscreen to share your story with our supportive audience. You might out more about all of these shows as well as our storytelling workshops add story quieter dot org. Today's episode is brought to you by better help online therapy service. It's so important to look after your mental health especially in these days and better help makes it easy even during pandemic. Better help will assess you needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapists new start communicating and under forty eight hours. It's not a crisis line it's not self help. It's professional counseling done securely. There's a broad range of expertise available which might not be locally available in many areas and their services available to clients worldwide. You can log into your account anytime cinna message to your counselor. You'll get timely and thoughtful responses plus you can schedule a weekly video or phone session. See never even have to leave the house. Better health is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. So they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed. It's more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. Better help wants you to start living a happier life today visit better help dot com slash story quieter. That's better h. e. l. p. and join the more than a million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. That so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. Special offer restorick later, listeners, you can get ten percent off your first month at better help, DOT com. Our next story today is from Johannes men. It was recorded in May twenty eighteen caveat in New York City at our eighth anniversary celebration. I'll start my story in the winter during a three foot snowstorm in Connecticut. It was right after Barack Obama had been elected for the second time right after inauguration and I couldn't get out of my driveway. So I was working at home in my study and the phone rang and it was John Holdren. Key Science Adviser for President Obama and very calmly said the president and I would like you to come to Washington serve in the White House as a science advisor and direct science division of the Office of Science and technology. Policy. Now don't say no read the President's science agenda. Well, I said no any way very quickly. Said thanks so much John Wonderful offer but I'm afraid I have the best job in the world. See I was a professor at Yale at the time and I had these wonderful students I had a lab full of researchers and I owed them a lot. I owed them my support and my advice and my guidance. Can just walk out on them. So. We cordially hung up and I was watching the snow fall and my husband who was also snowden came into my study and he asked what the call was about. So I told him and he said, so you're going to do it right And I said you're kidding, right And I looked at him and I couldn't believe it because this is my husband who knows me so well and knows how I love my science I love being in the lab and I love my students and I have a sense of responsibility and anyway, why would he think that I would want to hang out with boring bureaucratic scientists the government Any. Shook his head and he walked out of my study and he said when you're president calls you listen. I knew he wasn't kidding. So I felt like my patriotism had been questioned and I knew I had to take this off a little more seriously. So I thought more about it and one thing really lasted from what my husband said. He said when your president caused this was my president. This was president. Barack Obama who not only was brilliant and sweet and funny and I saw a great leader but he loves science he was every scientists president. So how could I just say? No so quickly So I went down to Washington and I met with John Holdren and I asked him why me out of all the thousands of scientists you could have in this country why would you want me? I know nothing about policy and I know even less about politics he said don't worry about that. Leave all that to us. We'll teach you that I want ideas. The president needs ideas in science and proceeded to describe a job where I could set my own agenda I could work on any aspects of science that I wanted and I could teach the president about those aspects of science. That started sounding pretty cool. So I had to think seriously, well, I went back home to Connecticut I thought some more and eventually I accepted the position. But then even after I accepted it, I withdrew twice because the White House ethics office gave me a hard time I about publishing papers. They said you cannot publish papers. That's a conflict of interest you know can you just see the headline the Washington Post Science Adviser to the President Publishes in the Journal of Bacteriology. I couldn't quite figure out why this was a problem. But we work that one out and then they said I couldn't visit my students and I said well, you're asking me to actually have create a conflict of interest and eventually I said I just can't do this job I would not compromise but eventually they compromised. So it was very satisfying I countered mine emphasis in that case and I went to Washington and It took a long time for the Senate to finally confirm me not because they didn't like me but because they didn't vote and they eventually did I was confirmed and I went to work and got sworn in and my first morning after I was sworn in forty five minutes later I was sitting at my big desk in this gigantic Victorian office with these. High Ceilings and the desk for the first time in my life was completely clear this enormous Mahogany shiny desk had nothing on it, and so I immediately started musing about all the things I could do should I start with my agenda on science education or should I try to save America soils or should I work on precision medicine and just as I was Thinking, about this, my staff member may choose knocked on the door said, how do you like your job so far? well, I forty five minutes have been pretty okay. She said well, I. Hope You so like it when I'm done with you and she came in and close the door and may then told me about the Bola epidemic that was mounting in Africa. And she told me about this epidemic that was characterized by people dying in blood on the streets and healthcare workers dying from doing their jobs because they caught Ebola from their patients and she described it as a growing epidemic. That was threatening the world and needed the United States to take leadership will all of a sudden my job had gotten a lot harder and a lot scarier and I pushed my own agenda off I. Knew I was delaying it but I postponed it to work on this much more urgent and very scary issue. I knew nothing about public health when I started I was a microbiologist for decades but I didn't do the kind of micro-biology that was needed to solve the abol crisis. So my first thing to do was to pull together people who actually knew something and so I ask members of twenty six federal agencies to come to a meeting at the White House and talk about their plans for Bola. And when I walked into the room and found that every single person had invited at all of these agencies had shown up in these were leaders CDC and USDA AN NIH in all branches of the military I knew. I had acquired a superpower and it resided in the line. Hi, I'm calling from the White House and that's all it took to get these people to a meeting. Well my task force pulled together. They had lots of plans for how to screen at airports and keep the epidemic out of the United States when we should be moving into Liberia with help and support and many many other issues that I could never have handled. After we got started then I I started hearing things as much through the news as I did through my email at work things like President Obama announced that the military was moving into into Liberia. The army was taking over the logistical part of Ebola and I thought what is the army know about infectious disease I'm the microbiologist. But enough I learned exactly what the Army knows about infectious disease a couple of months. Later, we're in a meeting in the situation room, which by the way doesn't look anything like what you see on television. And we were having conversation over video link with the general that was running the bowl operation in Liberia and there he was this big guy in his in his camouflage fatigues kind of all sprawled out looking very relaxed and told us in exquisite detail. All of the great things that the army had done to launch the Ebola response and mainly it was setting up the bowl response units that allowed people to be treated and they. They didn't have any place for people to be treated and they set up these units across all of Liberia. So I started asking lots of questions thinking I'm going to stump the sky and. Found that no, he was extremely knowledgeable and could answer all of my questions and I suddenly became really impressed and was so grateful to the men and women of the army who had taken that first step and they were the first boots on the ground in Liberia and they had no idea what they were facing. They hit know if they were going to get you bowl if they were gonna be exposed and there were very few healthcare workers treat them if they did. But they did an incredible job with military precision, you might say of setting up the treatment units and preparing for the rest of the Bowler response. While, as I walked back to my office I sort of lost track of of the generals, very calming and reassuring voice and the stark reality started hitting me again, we may have all those beds but what are we going to do if we don't have the train personnel and we don't have the supplies and we knew that many of these treatment units didn't have even running water a quarter of them didn't have any running water and most of them didn't even have gloves and masks the basic equipment that healthcare workers needed to treat Ebola patients. So there was a long way to go and what was needed was an act of Congress and we all know how hard that is. We didn't have the money to buy a there was no allocation to buy the supplies or train the personnel, and so there was a request in front of Congress, and we were waiting for them to approve it in every day we would hear about the horrors of Ebola and we would see the really grotesque pictures of people dying and the tragedy that was going on and every day. The consequences of the stalling of Congress would be felt in lives lost but they kept stalling because they felt no real pressure they they dragged their feet saying that it wasn't important to Americans because this happening in a country far away that probably most Americans couldn't find on a map. So that was a pretty discouraging aspect, here was this crisis of humanitarian suffering human suffering and Congress had the ability to do what what needed to be done, and they wouldn't do it, which was blocking our ability to do what we needed to do. So there was a lot of despair during that time I remember. I. Would Walk Home Every night late from the White House to my dark lonely apartment and on the way I would think about all the things that I hadn't been able to do all the things that we couldn't fix and I felt so inadequate I looked at these pictures every day. and. There was one day I. Remember in particular this picture of a Liberian woman on her knees reaching out towards stretcher, which had a corpse on it that was being carried away by masked healthcare workers. It was so tragic and so painful and these came at us every day all the time and everyone felt like a reproach for what I couldn't do. And I started to feel like a an impostor like I didn't really know my job because I couldn't fix this and I started thinking well, if I knew more or if I had had more experience or just better at this job, I would be able to do it. So one night after these one of these long walks home the I came into. My apartment and the phone is ringing and it was my husband and I. Sat there talking to him in the dark for about an hour and I told him how is feeling that I was just not good at this that maybe I shouldn't be doing this job because I wasn't being able to to to solve the crisis and even make it better. And he very wisely said, you're not supposed to solve it by yourself. This is a group activity. So be part of the group. And all of a sudden, there was real safety in numbers. There was a real sense of being part of something larger. We'd already seen what our friends in the military could do that. We never would have been able to do from the White House alone, and that's started reassuring me and sure enough soon after that, the political machine in the White House started working very hard in Congress and finally Congress passed the the bill that that funded the Bola Initiative So even the politicians had our backs and so I learned a really important lesson there about working as part of a big machine and that big machine really pulled together to get a job done. Didn't look so rosy right away. I wish it happen faster but he didn't, and we still got these reports of deaths and these horrible spreads. To new areas there was one day where we got a report of a hundred and thirteen deaths in in a single day and the numbers remounting, and it was quite discouraging. But around November, I pulled together my big task force and ask for reports and all of a sudden there was this ray of light I started thinking. Maybe there's actually hope here because I found out that we had four thousand. Trained workers, healthcare workers in Liberia that hadn't been trained a few months earlier, we had more beds than patients in these Ebola treatment units that the army had set up, and now we had ten labs fully equipped with modern equipment and the state of the art techniques for detecting the virus to do diagnosis there only been one when we started. So we suddenly had the tools to begin to handle this epidemic. And the President of Liberia President Sirleaf issued her Ebola must go campaign that took the country by storm and led to all sorts of innovations, including things like giving cell phones to tribal leaders so that when there were outbreaks in the rural areas, they could call them in and get healthcare workers to come to them. By December we were down to ten cases per day and then down to a trickle, and we started to think maybe Liberia could become a bowl of free and we waited through the beginning of of two thousand fifteen. We waited and counted the days because it takes forty two days to become. Ebola, free with no diagnoses of new cases and we thought were going to make it and then in March a woman got sick in Monrovia, the capital of Liberia and she died a week later and so we had to start the count again we had several false starts finally in. September. September third two thousand fifteen Liberia with declared Ebola free. And it was quite a moment but we couldn't celebrate because we knew that this virus was so unpredictable that it would pop up again someplace sometime and we didn't want to be premature in our celebration but that was the beginning of the end of the Ebola crisis even the other countries where it had spread to began to see a demonstration of cases. So I learned an enormous amount from that process I learned to appreciate what this government could do. I was so proud to be part of our public health system even know I was this tiny little part I was cog in this gigantic thing. This this thing that we call government is this unruly and kind of floppy thing that nobody seems to truly understand I certainly couldn't comprehend, but it somehow gets really hard jobs done and the people who do those jobs are not boring dull bureaucratic scientists. They became my heroes. I learned a lot also about humanitarian issues and just being human and one of the people that taught me the most about being human was Barack Obama. He always brought the human side to events and one of the things that he always taught us was don't lose your humanity and part of being human is having a sense of humor. So at the height of the abol a crisis when cases were coming in all the time and we're all distracted by how deathly literally this epidemic was. I went to visit the president. One. Day delivering a group of scientists who had gotten wards and he was greeting them. We went to the Oval Office and I waited until the scientists trickled out and lingered behind and I placed the president right in front of me. The secret service couldn't see through him. He was big enough to block because I knew I was going to do something that was illegal and the secret service would probably tackled me. If they saw I was going to give to the president to not supposed to do. And I pulled out of my pocket a little fluffy stuffed microorganism. It was a streptococcus beautiful little red for racing and it was the flesh-eating bacterium. The president was quite enthralled. He loves the flesh-eating bacterium. We had a very serious conversation and he wanted to know all about the lifestyle of the flesh eating bacteria and what it would eat and actually how to keep it at bay. He said at one point I'M GONNA keep my eye on this guy. And when we were done, I started walking out thinking tonight just disgraced myself by giving toy to the president of the United States the leader of the free world. Then I heard his voice behind me and I turned around and he said I need one of these free. Bola. NYE SAID COMING UP MR PRESIDENT That night at dinner. Chef place a stuffed Ebola virus on his plate. And I heard that the president had very good dinner that night. That was. Men Joe is the director of the Wisconsin Institute for Discovery at the University of Wisconsin Madison Avila's research professor and Howard Hughes Medical Institute professor. Previously served as science advisor to President Barack Obama as he socio director for Science, the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy where she served for three years until January twenty seventeen. And she was on the faculty at the University of Wisconsin and Yale University before that. She's responsible for groundbreaking studies in microbial communication and messaging onyx. She received the Presidential Award for Excellence in Science Mathematics and engineering mentoring from President Obama in twenty eleven was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences Twenty nineteen. were. So grateful to Kenan Joe. For sharing their stories with us the story clutter is also very grateful for this port of Science Sandbox Assignments Foundation Initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science. Story. Quieter is led by me artistique director Aaron Barker with help from deputy director, Nisa Greenberg, operations manager, Lindsay Cooper, and the rest of our amazing team. The stories featured in today's podcast were from show is produced by me Aaron Barker. The podcast is edited by our podcast team including Chen Gwen, Hogan and Johnny Nicholson. The theme music is by Ghost. Special thanks to the same Lewis storytelling festival and caveat for hosting new shows. And to all the medical professionals, researchers, epidemiologists, central workers, and more for their hard work in sleepless nights. Thanks for listening. We say serious cash with a progressive home and auto bundle and used the money to buy a new boat. Is Not a real testimonial. Sure. Customers can save big money with progressive but not enough for a new boat, they'll probably spent on rent or gas money or maybe one of those little plastic wading pools for the yard. Is what the captain might say on the toy boat in your waiting pool. Rest Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.
Friday, March 6, 2020
"This is ABC News Special Cova. Nineteen what you need to know from. Abc News headquarters here is correspondent. Aaron Katersky New York confirmed eleven new cases today bringing the total in the state to thirty three all of them connected to an attorney who remains hospitalized with corona virus and all of those cases continue the expected climb of cases of covert nineteen in this country in the Anna confirmed. Its first case today. President trump's good for the visit to the Centers for Disease Control. The city of Miami cancelled a big electronic dance music festival that was expected to draw nearly two hundred thousand people and we heard from a census worker in Iowa who said the virus made her concerned about going door to door for the once in a decade census. We know all of this brings up a lot of questions and our chief health and medical editor. Dr Jen Ashton is here to answer them with. Abc's Diane Macedo. Here's our first one. If one person has it at school what are the chances of getting it okay? Well first of all you have to ask. Has that person been confirmed and most likely here widespread in the country. The answer is no. We know that the pediatric population has almost no symptoms of this To date it's unlikely that they're not getting infected however it's just likely that they're not showing symptoms so when you say a person at school. Is that a staff member and employees teachers so on because it's hasn't been a child yet The next question is on transmission. We don't know exactly about this. New Strain of Corona virus but based on other corona viruses other respiratory viruses. We know that they're spread the droplets and contact so the closer the contact the longer the contact. It's just common sense that increases the risk of getting something. That's why schools are a vulnerable location. It is the one of the most jammed packed. You know pieces of real estate. We have in this country So again when people start to see sporadic school closings. Maybe it's because there's a documented or confirmed case in the community but maybe it's just one of those N. P. is non-drug interventions. That's trying to prevent. Not just it's spreading through that school but then those young children bringing it home to their very vulnerable grandparents and then this one is a myth that seems to be circulating. The Internet our next question comes reviewer. Asking some say this will lessen in warmer weather. Is that true? No one knows and I'll tell you what we have to remember here. Dianne which is really interesting. Remember when it's warm weather here. It's winter in the southern hemisphere and since this corona strain is now global and spreading in many many countries throughout the world. Just because it's summer or warm weather in the northern hemisphere doesn't mean it's not cold weather or winter in the southern hemisphere and no one has a crystal ball on this for some scientific perspective. The murs strain of Corona viruses spread in sub Saharan Africa and the Arabian Peninsula which was over one hundred degrees. And we do have cases of this virus in warm weather communities. So we just don't know We hear a lot about the flu shot. It flew she. Susan does getting the flu shot help in not getting the corona virus. These are really good questions. Diane You know. I think we're keeping now. I know it's important to know number. One flew is still a much greater. Risk to the average person in this country While the flu cases are declining. And we're about to hear the CDC's recent numbers on flu estimates Your risk is still greater of getting the flu then getting this novel Corona virus it. It's not too late to get the flu. Shot by the way because seasonal influenza circulates throughout the world. A Co you know throughout the year but there is no direct protection. That's my long answer way of answering maccari question. There's no direct protection conveyed by the flu. Vaccine Against this corona virus. Say The flu. Shot won't help YOU NOT GET CORONA VIRUS. But you should get it anyway because it. You should the other thing that I want people to remember because you know. I'm always interested in teaching people how to think like doctor. You can get more than one respiratory pathogen. At a time. I mean that would be very unlikely unlucky and maybe not that likely but it is possible to have a bacterial infection and viral infection. It's possible even to get to viral infections at the same time. So you're never gonNa hear me not say. Don't get a flu vaccine. It's better than nothing. It's like wearing a seatbelt. When you get into your car and I love this next question. Is it better to get the corona virus now before it gets stronger so you develop an immunity voice? So I'm sure we're going to start to see on the fringes people saying let's have a corona virus party and get it over with. I really caution people. This is an unknown. We have no track record on this virus And in general just because you are naturally exposed to something doesn't mean that it will be less severe doesn't mean you won't pass it to someone who's at very high risk for complications and we don't know what that will do to us down the road. Were still even trying to learn about the at least two strains of this corona virus. And whether you can be infected by both strains or get reinfected while that's unlikely it's still not known so my short answer to that question is no okay last question we can make a quick but is there any concern about us creating some superbug from all the hand sanitizer. Everybody's using not for this. I mean we have to remember you know. This is a global health. Emergency and handwashing hand hygiene is critically important So you know we have to just take common steps common sense steps that we can hand. Washing is a big one. Abc's chief health and medical editor. Dr Jennifer Ashton there with my colleague. Diane Macedo answering some of your questions about corona virus and they are questions that all of us have as the virus continues to permeate not only the news but also in very real ways People on cruise ships say thousands of passengers are waiting for results of tests that were flown to them by helicopter while they're cruise ship was parked off. California. Abc's Matt Gutman. Is there in San Francisco joins US now Matt what's the scene? We're all waiting for the ship. We're all waiting for news and Right now it's when those twenty four hundred twenty two passengers aboard the grandparents are supposed to get news about what happened with those three hundred or so test kits that were flown off the ship at about eight. Pm Eastern five PM local landed here around five thirty A. whisked off for what the through ambulances with a police motorcade surrounding them that gives you an indication of how important and how seriously they are taking this to a lab. Those test kits have been tested. We don't yet know the results. Obviously a pretty significant amount of trepidation by those passengers aboard the ship. They are concerned about the decision. Made by the CDC and local health officials about what will happen if corona virus. was found on the ship that people tested positive Is going to be quarantined for a significant period of time offshore Will it be brought here Just up the pier from me at Pier. Twenty seven offloaded and maybe just a healthy people will be taken off. Nobody knows what's going to happen and the CDC tells me that until they actually know what the results of those tests are. They will not have made an actual decision. We understand the decision has been made. We just don't know the results just yet. Everybody is waiting so especially for those people who are elderly aboard that ship and there are significant number of them. This is a time of great concern Two people aboard that ship. A one person confirmed to have died having contracted the corona virus on the previous cruise about two weeks ago. Another person possibly suspected of contracting the disease has passed away. They're investigating that particular case but nobody wants to be trapped on that ship. Nobody wants to get sick right now. Certainly ABC's Matt Gutman with us from San Francisco lying that cruise ship now park off California and today in Britain they reported a first corona virus death so we turn to London now and ABC's James Longman. What do we know about this case? James? Yes so not. Very much is A woman an elderly lady who had some underlying complications already. That is something we've heard from victims. I think around the world it would be the second British person but the first person to die here in the UK And there's another person and other elderly gentleman who also suddenly died where authorities are looking to see if he also died from corona virus. But this is in the UK. We've recorded the largest daily jump in cases one hundred and sixty three cases now. In Britain. Twenty thousand people have been tested and this is part of a larger theme seeing now in Europe. You GotTa look at this as a kind of a wave from China and it feels in Europe. It's cresting now. A lot of countries all recording big jumps in their daily recorded cases Italy again as had a massive jump. Something like over three thousand cases there and as this virus has westwood's other countries as well Iran. Over twelve hundred new cases overnight. So I think now we're sort of seeing in Europe this biggest spread as specifically I think elderly populations are concerned in countries are worried about making sure that those particularly those communities are protected. Because you know it leads. The second law the second sort of eldest population on earth Greece Spain Germany large communities of of elderly people. So I think that is where the concern is in the Vatican. Now we've seen the first case a clinic. There has been shot down to be sterilized. So we're just seeing this this these cases pop up in more and more and more and more locations across Europe. So it's really extraordinary. Just how this virus is has taken hold as it travelled westwards and how authorities are just trying to do that. Best to make sure it doesn't spread and James I know you're tracking this viruses March across the globe. There is some better news out of Asia. What are you following their? That's right so China actually has recorded false fewer daily cases. Just let me just check one hundred and forty three new cases in a day so that if you compared to the thousands of being recorded daily just a couple of weeks ago that is a good new South Korea as well saying the same. The majority of cases are still focused on Ebay province. That's where we had. Is that city where this virus seems to emanate at eighty percent of cases. There's they're recording less of a spread as well. That is good news but the issue is I think anyway for European countries and for the United States is that China have all sorts of ways of controlling the population that bombs in Europe and the United States. They don't have. They can employ slightly more draconian methods forcibly removing people from their homes forced quarantine. You're unlikely to see that. In places like Europe and the United States Europe is one of the most connected possibly the most connected continent on Earth. People travel around move all the time. Millions travel daily. I mean freedom of movement basically underpins the whole reason. Europe exists so whatever has worked in China. Because I don't think it's fair to say there's viruses tapering off is just that they've managed to restrict people so heavily. That is why we're seeing fewer cases recorded if indeed. We can believe all the numbers that they give us an important to say. We could take the numbers with a pinch of soul but over here in Europe and in the United States. It's not as easy for authorities to use the same sorts of methods. So even though it's tapering off there it doesn't necessarily follow that it'll taper off here but we can only hope that it does certainly ABC's James Longman with us from his post in London and we're joined now from Lenox Hill Hospital here in New York by Dr David Book Var Doc. I wanted to ask you about that point. That James was just telling us about this containment idea because you've called on the surgeon general of the United States to do more. What do you want to see happen? Well I I agree with that Approach that coney measures that are in China or not necessarily applicable to what we can do in the United States and I think it would be prudent to take a step back here and even have the Surgeon General or the vice president declare even as early as next week. A Corona virus containment week where we essentially shut down or slow down the entire country to recognize the importance that we have a couple of days to a couple of weeks to prevent the dissemination of this This virus and Wall Street will have to use. Remote trading deaths in schools will have to use remote learning or take a week of spring break and it will allow us In the hospital to get enough testing kits to Get enough n ninety five masks and you know we can't bs to Conan as the Chinese government but we're going to have to do things in the very short term to shut things down and that's GonNa that's GonNa be painful for March madness sports and large gatherings and events but it's GonNa pay dividends when this relatively tame virus for most of us will not infect our vulnerable populations of elderly and those with pre existing conditions. So I'm in favor and I think the markets in New York here will respond very favorably. If the country comes together understands this and says you know what next week or the week after? We're GONNA have a crown of ours containment week. Their incentives that the government can do to to cushion some of the economic blows that can include increasing paid leave or giving payroll taxes so the goal of the corporations. Don't feel such a hit. I Know Wall Street will then respond favorably and as our healthcare systems are better prepared. Better testing we'll be ready to open our doors again a week from Monday And I think it would be a much better position from a a viral dissemination as well now you realize doc how alarming that sounds to to people but in your view the viruses is that serious that it requires a whole basically week off for the country. Yup and I don't think it. Let me just preface. I think the viruses actually not Nearly as dangerous if you will as influenza or or Other pathogens that we dealt with in previous pandemics and again fear and panic is is worse now than the virus itself but we don't know is how communicable the virus is. We do know that people are going walking around on untested and That's going to be a problem. This fires takes hold in large numbers. And if those vulnerable populations of elderly and those with pre existing conditions start hitting our healthcare systems. It's GonNa completely saturate our ability to help people who need other types of of medical issues so we can follow China Japan Italy and show that you have to have Social isolation in order to improve the the in the You know stop the transmission of this virus to some extent and so. I think we have to organize this in a way. That is unified right. Now we're tracking person by person. I mean every day. We're getting a new report that you know today. Pennsylvania has two people in yesterday tennis. You know I think needs to be less effort on tracking one individual time in your fifty contacts and the day then saying you know what? Let's practice Some prudent unified approaches To modified social isolation. Let's get control of this. That's organized as a country and And stop this in its tracks responding with Dr David Book from Lenox Hill Hospital here in New York City as we continue our conversation about Kovic nineteen and the toll that it is taking on economic activity on communities but most of all on ordinary people. Out and DOC is you call for this Containment week I wanted to pick up on something else. You said that that hospitals need to restock tests and supplies are hospitals not properly equipped at this stage. Oh we don't have tests yet and There there are many states in the United States. That have no testing now. The good news is we're very close. And in fact in our healthcare system here in New York northward health we have the largest healthcare system in New York. We were about I would say about a week away from providing tests and and several Private companies are now entering the field but as Governor. Cuomo said here in New York just a couple of minutes ago. They've only done dozens of tests on people and there are thirty three positives here in the state of New York When we start widespread testing the numbers are GonNa go dramatically up and everyone is measuring success by the numbers that are contained. And we have to be honest with testing all these people and and into track one individual at a time and then look at contacts. You develop a lot of hysteria and your quarantining people. We have a local doctor here in New York. Who was just tested? Positive and that family is now under quarantine for fourteen days with with Children at home. They're stigmatism attached to it And it really. That one person is in our opinion or at least in my opinion It needs to be a more global approach To shutting down what we know is the American Way. of traveling at will of going to sporting events will of going you know concerts it will and I think the month of March is going to determine how we as Americans decide to curtail some of these activities for the common good. I wonder if people would be more receptive if this were something like Ebola where it seemed on. Its face anyway and again. We don't know a lot about corona virus yet but to be far more serious contract People look at this in here. Comparisons to a cold or the flu and say I don't know shutting down the American way of life for a week for this. He and I think that's a good point. You know if you had image of a a bulla victim with blood coming out of their eyes or something grotesque You know everyone say let's do this or else But it's going to take you know. Several people losing grandparents or a friend who's got lupus or otherwise. Well people to understand that. This is a difficult process in their vulnerable populations that although that can die from the common cold so we we lose sixteen thousand approximately sixteen thousand people to influenza each year. And now we've a virus. That doesn't have the possibility of what we call herd immunity where you can vaccinate a large amount of people and so we're GONNA lose patience this year that we should not have lost and that's going to be family members and grandparents and otherwise well people in healthcare workers and ultimately that's a burden on the American people all right so that may be the the wishlist approach. Can you talk about the approach that public health officials and I suppose politicians who were doing most of the talking about this around the country Can you gauge their effect? So far and how they're doing well first of all we're at the tip of the iceberg. Right mean we as healthcare providers. We're and either. This is the information that's coming to us. If we're to tell people who feel like they have cold symptoms first and foremost stay at home. Stay at home if you have cough fever feeling sick sneeze into your sleeve us. Good hand hygiene. Don't touch your face but stay at home if those symptoms persist please visit either an urgent care center go to a local primary care. Physician do not come to our emergency room. Please do not. This is what the message were being told. Please do not come to the emergency room. So the message that he's getting out right now is one that. We're just not ready to test for for this virus in healthcare systems across the country. Now we're slowly improving the capabilities. We hope in New York State for example to go to to go up to five hundred test per day And we'll be ready. I do believe we need some time. And in order to prevent this in the next seven or ten days We would benefit from a slowdown of dissemination. And and I'm sure as as you know And as Americans we pride ourselves on being able to jump on the train and go down to the you know a another city or flying an airplane and we don't think about that person sitting next to us that may have Rheumatoid arthritis or and beyond Some immunosuppressant so you know. I think we're at an inflection point where leadership really must look at the country as a whole and stop fouling people by people and a new case. You're in a new case there. Obviously there's importance to tracking but Wall Street. The government the economy. Everyone needs some leadership. Appear and without student draconian approaches that we see in China. We need to institute. American approaches. That coordinate the effort and buy some time for the American healthcare system to get ready and then we can hold off and I think by six weeks from now by summertime. We'll start plateauing seeing these cases diminish and we'll have gone through it and whether it comes back in the fall with the colder air We'll see but I think it's very very important that we we organized as a country. Daca David Book Var of Lenox Hill Hospital. Here in New York Doc thanks very much for the perspective. Appreciate it okay. Thank you Dr. David Book at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York calling for the surgeon. General to announce a corona virus containment week whereby effectively? The American way of life would shut down or cease for a week. He says so that the virus could perhaps be controlled. Lead hospitals restock let hospitals and doctors get testing kits and then they would be more prepared to deal with corona virus as it continues its upward climb in the United States today. President trump signed an eight point. Three billion dollar measure to help tackle the corona virus outbreak. It is so far killed more than a dozen people in the United States and infected more than two hundred. This legislation provides federal public health agencies with money for vaccines and tests and potential treatments. It helps state and local governments. Prepare and respond to the threat of the rapid spread of the virus of course has rocked financial markets. Were looking at the dow down at the moment as we speak another four hundred plus points. It has certainly interrupted travel. And we've learned that Lufthansa another airline That's been affected by this is going to curtail. Its travel by fifty percent. Because of Corona virus of the president had planned to sign the bill at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. There was some concerns raised about a person who may been infected a work at the CDC but that person has since tested negative for the virus and the CDC was re added to the president scheduled for later on Friday. I'm Aaron Katersky. You've been listening to. Abc News Special ABC News Honored Winner of four and Edward R Murrow awards ABC News. America's number one news choice.
S12E28 Super Sprint
"Yeah well absolutely department it could be an antenna services department or you could have external customers as well or external partners serving internal the and reviewing what you doing and making sure that your providing value so it in this case is like the internal IT services Hello Hello how are you taking me boo good mock it's been a while it has what have you been up to I went the department needs to be within an organization and how to make sure that what you're doing is aligned with the people you're providing services for so you not just undestand department do what they do why are you here yes yes exactly how to do things what kind of people go on this thing well I always assumed the new ready to be interesting for like it managers Bachelor we had a we joining me this week to go of all of that Mark Tallow Hello Hello how you doing I'm none too shabby Thanki good pleased to hear it and Allen I to a mix of so there was me and another developer there were a few of all delivery managers in scrum masters and this week we're going to be discussing our personal wishlists for a boon to desktop twenty four what I've come online love and listener feedback and I'd like get a naval gazing and producing bits for the sake of it you're actually focused on what the organization needs from it so I sort of manual for how to set up an it department so it's looking at the various functions of overnight I didn't realize what it was now I had no idea and yeah I found it a lot more interesting than I expected to I have to say as someone who my job is just some of all media it's like middle manager type people and yet it was it was a mix of people really but yeah it's not really a developer focus thing and when I said that I'd been on it to some of the people in more of the operation side of the department they were like Oh were you coming into operations we're probably changed in the last twenty years since I did it Oh yeah definitely yeah yes what's this what the best way I can describe it is it's kind of like into nineteen ten will have just been released optimistic well now I'm I'm feeling confident definitely as you're listening to this bright code actually learning about this stuff was kind of interesting as well Louis about writing the right code for the right people at the right time for the right reasons as I was saying nineteen detainees released by now and we want like look into the future a little bit prediction episode on a training course last week to learn about till oh I've done this in the past how long in the past because Varney it's changed a bit absolutely positively out lately we've got that we've got the editorial control if need be actions or yeah it's sort of it's kind of choice to be agnostic as to what kind of organization you are and how you're setup and just be so general guidance because they sort of say is more focused them which is why do we saw contained within a very small of Aita covers but it's kind of interesting too what we have wishlists for the desktop for the twentieth full release so each come up with some ideas and we're gonNA throw it right then we'll let you listen to this Alan under the bus I Allan which you like to talk us through your idea your wish-lists yes so bear mind twenty four is a lts released steals windows ten and windows ten has been could feedback hub one of the things we hear lot from people is filing bugs Kim support and we know lots of people installed the Elti S.'s or upgrade to the LTS's and stay on them like I remember reading that it was component of the system the bug might be in and you can submit it does it guide you through that process as to how to categorize things well it tries to the people are going to wanNA use because it's going to survive for long time right the is so the first one the I put in there is actually I'd like to see blog posts and it's also got Qa in there as well invites you to do these things called quests and they're basically Qa is chain ten times in twenty times more people than non Elsia so I think it's important to get the LTS right you know needs to be stable and reliable but also you need features it's hard and if you're an on an inside a building those ten you get invited to open feedback hub and name with your outlook account and then you do what you do the report you type in a description of Physi- selections for what type of it might be what what asking you to get open an application turn on a particular feature trying out and then report back here if it worked and if it didn't fill in this box with what went wrong report bugs directly in it it's a desktop application and it's kind of a front end to a bug tracker but it's a much more friendly to on your local machine you just news and certainly I recognize the requirement for this because a couple of weeks ago is with the beat was released for nineteen ten made lots of cools for come and test and file you'll bugs and people did so thank you for that the thing and send people do all these different disparate locations having only one is a fairly simple APP but it's very powerful so I think something like that would be really good allows people to file bugs but the thing about feedback of hobbies is way more than that an S. feed in their important development updates and the notifications from anything nothing at all nothing for many browsers nothing for many applications that have their own bespoke notification system nothing extensible than people might be able to contribute you plug in -able things to support all these other weird applications that we have because we don't have a unified a lot of people were like okay I found some issues but I don't know what to do now a niche would be the perfect vehicle to help those people contribute in a meaningful have you the actually you know decided you gonNA contribute and get involved this time round brilliant fantastic job but then I felt like I'd let people down because for someone to develop and launch has an API things API gets a huge lead difficult thing to create I think he uh-huh weird notifications telegrams weird notifications but if there was some way that you know it was possible to make connects the second one is super easy to describe do not disturb I wanna but my compress and I get it's Qa and so having that all bundled in one place rather than having to send people off to launch pad for one thing and send people off to an icy track other people rather than my stupid shells groups that are useful to me right yes there's definitely more value in creating something that other people can use re into the well known Xt G notifications specifications. Right I knew you have this which is why extended the requirements to be yes and it's got a little bit of research and try and find related bugs but just simplistic again I didn't think it needs all of that at just something that stealing feedback hub from windows infancy something like it on a windy we might have to discuss licensing terms with Microsoft but other than that it's a great idea so steve notifications and all these things old different and sometimes I just want them all to just go away and I want to be able to press abutment and Galway yeah that's an interesting one I was I was Tapie Hyphen notifications are all over the place and so I think rather than take the elementary attitude all the project attitude you've used that nothing else I would rather we knew the people using all kinds of different applications like discord and signed smugly reply or her well the green version of a Bantu does this now but your description of do not disturb is much broader than just hooking in it's worth having well today I learned Allen Pepys in fact developer so you're always looking for positive contributions so it sounds like you've found package got removed all the nvidia binary driver update went wrong all the disc is full or whatever right this I'm from the desktop native cases I won't none I want to I it may need to have some kind of plugin architecture to be able to cope with crummy as we don't do well when something goes wrong on the users just dumped a black screen as lots of causes for this and for an end user that's an appalling state to be left in because you can do nothing you're not empowered to fix the thing you've got a black screen and you can't get any contract oh and guide them through how to do the test and then guide them through to follow bug when it goes wrong I think I think there is sending space for that so that's that's my first one is you think so I feel like we should identify what the you use data science to identify the most common we get people coming into the the podcast telegram channel that I see quite low on the open to read it where people you know they've they've booted machine probably easily anyone who's been around into Lennox for for a while to come up probably with half a dozen to a dozen different scenarios that would cause you to get black screen doc what is the first off your list well this has annoyed me no end ever since I started using they could be nodding hopefully and saying I've seen that we need to fix that we need to stop stop dumping people in a horrible place so that's my three so ma h people to success like we've got the recovery console maybe they need things adding that maybe we automatically into recovery or something to make it better so yeah I want I want us to fixate a bit on end user support when things go catastrophic hero because we see this quite a lot in away and there are lots of other things that could in this like why imagine that that cool for testing imagine that was in the at by an popped a notification out and said hey and taking a blurry picture of kernel panic little black screen or Grub you know any any one of these things you have seen all of these people the nothing nothing else happens and you think we'll why did clicking notification then give me another notification rather than giving me the APP or courses of black screen and figure out solutions either to mitigate them like to prevent them happening in the first place all too default no shell up into desktop there were various cases when you're using you're using an application or you click a notification and but I don't think it's acceptable to give people this in an lts distribution have you followed the bug trackers to find out why I have fan of fan so for project yeah kind of I I mean isn't interesting thing and it would be quite interesting to start developing something that is useful you've got opens a window in the background and then POPs up in education saying this application is ready useful thing right yes yeah yet is it is definitely and the final thing I would really like for twenty four is a thing that has frustrated me for years I said wait for the show so here we are I'm absolutely clueless as to what this is because I run the green version of never seen this thing so why why they either get a blank screen all some era which doesn't get them as far as logan prompt and they left with taking a photo of their monitoring posting it because that's all you can do at that you know what's it what's it doing now that is ready it seems like the most bizarre and pointless Ba of user experience I've ever seen an it's behind everything it's like there is it it it's infuriating and I can understand on what you'd already delivered on not that daft can see the troll will trolling animation running running over in my head right now I realise you've baited me but he is is as this thing what's his purpose day some sort of deep down bit of of stuff in GT K.. I think or in the Gnome yes edify me why what is this so in the in the pre show I saw this and I was like what is this I don't know what this is and both but the trouble is that it does even if the window has is dropping focus in response to a specific action that you've performed which means that you end up with a notification Raleigh did you know that is that that's probably the only computer and that they're they're having to resort to opening a messaging system or opening ready on their mobile phone agreement with mark that wherever the thing is is busted is causing them to have this workaround fixed that but in the meantime let's have an extension it's you know decided another window once focus so instead of doing a puppy open education inform you that the the window once focus responsibly and you can't stop doing this because there for very good reason you need to ask you a question differently or something like that and that all that adds to the frustration because breeze which is third stop window stealing focus unexpectedly basically so that you're not typing in one window then suddenly typing another because the thing that needs testing a new verdict in because you've installed the APP manuals the APP we've pressed a button this has often tests and stuff yeah that kind of thing could drive people yes it's the podcast you're pod catcher has been waiting for it's a boon to podcast season twelve episode twenty eight whole whatever left to get somebody with some influenced take a look at that one I think yeah totally so my next one is I'd like the the window that you're after and I've seen various bugs where basically the the developer of said this is expected behavior go away I which isn't very helpful or have dismissed because of because of the frustration caused the buzzer reporting because basically said we need to stop doing this seems like I don't care about how bad experience this induces it is completely use a hostile in but there are a few rough edges that still need ironing out there so in particular when you're downloading stuff nor on a on a debbeen packaged action like the fact that I can click an icon to launch an application and it says yeah your applications ready but it's nowhere on three screens hair an isn't on any of them experience of using five Fox snap to be smoothed out a bit who so he's great being able to have Fox not because it means you get the regular updates people want to mitigate the problem of typing in your password and going in the wrong boats and you end up typing your password denial see I think was what one of the bug reports said to go away and that all all name shed extensions which make it go away and have various results I'm just stop appearing some make it so the focus is the wind lights manager then either opens the file or directory it's independent you do however in the snap you don't generally get the options for which yeah okay I've seen I ac- channels and see people pause and he's quite funny that moment momentarily I accidentally typed the word awesome into unifier Fox you you click on file it might offer you some options for ways to launch file and if you've downloaded the file and you click in the down I five Fox has its own fairly rapid release cycle much more rapid than they have been to desktop itself and snaps already good ways to deliver that and I also see channel today and it turned out it was absolutely the correct response that so yeah I I am one hundred percent it's two thousand nineteen because you know all of everyone yeah everyone uses oil say all the time so that's the most important thing to get right and not not type of possibilities chat rides you then no I'm using the snap version and you shouldn't have to know that yes good point I can't disagree with that applications to open a type of file and if you try and click the file in the download manager it then has to ask you for permission to Sh- to show you that file in the file matter and then the use of Spacey's files were an overlay on top of that and when you want to reset back to factory it would just yeah that's one thing I always liked on the old EPC's ran zander's I think they had a base installed basically does the same thing as pressing saupiquet is really weird just having the word activities on your screen all the time there's very little context to that and next to that is a menu which is the says the current pikestaff occasion after puzzling over it for you've got the launcher down the left hand side and at the top of that in unity used to get the the buttons if your window is maximized we are one of the things I loved about unity was how how well used that space up there whereas I've I've always felt on shell it's a bit something like a factory reset or power wash feature so without having to new pave urine stool you can just say and then you would have the global menu so of next to that for the current APP that you're using what you have now is you have some Texas minutes I realized this Angie exactly the same thing as if you right click the the application in launcher so it seems to me that that's completely redundant and tree reset and you get the system as blank you know you start up and you set up username and Password and g blogging and it's fresh system some of the rather excellent design things that we've done in unity went away with it like all of that focus in that top left hand corner is launching applications close application says activities which I just discovered is about and never tried clicking it before it's been has been click for like a decade now yes so yet Sundin and it could be much better used so I'd like to see something better dumb with it part of the problem with the activities thing is on default Khanum installed with the introduction of albeit experimental that affects support in one thousand nine hundred ten I think there's an opportunity to introduce certainly hover that makes that activities thing it's like a hot corner isn't it yeah is how corner you can very easily trigger against infuriating so we turn the top left hand corner what's the top left hand corner of the desktop right so the top left hand corner of the desktop had so the tissue yeah yeah exactly recovery petition reset box factory for love this I really wish we had this yeah so this as as I I love this one of the things whenever we get to review those Dell's I always like playing with the Dell Utility because they've baked this in recovery the it's kind of split brain some of it's up there in the top left and some of it's over on the right it's a bit strange guilt in going them right so be aware from the last episode or two episodes ago I reviewed the thirty five forte and was reacquainted with this utility and Dell it's great because you can do a couple of things one you can create recovery media on a USB stick but also you know you can just go wam factory reset attorney on often the theme Still I I agree I completely agree with you and it frustrates me when unity went away has been installed on many many millions of windows workstations millions many many millions and minimizing applications maximum all up there in that all associated together whereas now we have game sheldon old WFL For human beings I we know that W ESL and and you go through the first user set up experience and you've got a clean system without having to talk people through how you dare I say almost the second politician and you're left back on the original install amend the older updates were gone but you're you're back on unoriginal instinct uh-huh yes that's him that's different I expect it right okay and while we can't tell it D- D and image onto a USB stick can go through the whole installation process yeah certainly do bomb snakes my next one I've how many of those are inactive us we do know that there have been these instals and if you look around the place about people using WFL there's a number to get involved in some command line foe so things like seamless audio hook-up so if you're running an application the things that crop up that people want to do with WFL which is a bit thorny and requires people who might not be familiar with been too in WFL that needs to speak twenty that should just work and you know you can make X.. Applications work but that requires finger walked through because on Lenox a lot of people hate wizards they hate these like structured pathways take vacation but on every works is graphic application you're talking about running Basically development tools on windows and the common way to be a bit self indulgent I'd like to see a boon to Mateo Amazon workspaces what is Amazon workspaces Amazon how the platform is common like you sign up to a new Web web service that Lafontaine he threw a few slides and then I'll ask you to sign in which you can skip one of those describe Amazon workspaces as a desktop as a service which basically means a desktop operating system in the cloud and similarly on windows they've got this notion of like guiding you through and it feels like we install urban two or windows and you clicky this theme you WanNa add these plug ins do you WanNa turn this feature on or off as your home directory where you WanNa Story of stuff it seems to me like that's a thing missing like some the and snaps being too fast sins in Waso that would be funky yes and my third pick I'm just going to you can run Amazon Lennox with believe it or not with the Mateo desktop in Amazon workspaces that's the that's the default experience is that you install an x server on windows La Blah Blah and you know south the display environment variable in various other things and it can be done station that is adjacent to those data sets are so you not throwing big chunks of data back and forth over the Internet I say Yes yes and there are other reasons as well you know the electronic voting and you know people that are privacy conscious I know this sounds crazy but I know people that are privacy conscious that stand up a temporary on guy he's a shell welcome to nineteen ninety-seven everybody yes and and I love it I love the terminal but workstation in the cloud travel to events in the countries that they consider places that infringe their liberties with a burn a laptop and you been to Mata is specifically geared to this particular use case and if anyone from Amazon is listening and should be prominent mark now you had a bonus a bonus item and I I it looked very interesting so I'd like you to present it yes I just oh that's gonna hat that must really hurt well it does because Amazon Lennox's derived from you know sent us Ralph L. somewhere that gets run on first boot that does apt install finish this H. server or something like that so that does exist in raspy and if you touch you think of the audience and tailor it feels like I feel like that could be better so yeah I like that one in in conjunction with you know that then you know system d sheen learning and quite often now you'll large data sets you want to manipulate are in these clouds and you won a works into everything headless I think that'd be arena sedition yeah I wonder if that's possible to do via just dropping is anyone in Amazon workspaces please drop an email to show a up into POLKA DOT org I'll be more more than happy to talk to you about how the green version of into should run through some installing setup the SSh serve yourself and this is true I've been to several have been too cool what I'd like is if there was an Dora whatever and it doesn't carry the patches for remote desktop awareness whereas been to Monterey does and my desk and then I'll unplug my laptop from the docking station and walk away and then realize I've been disconnected because I've effectively unplugged the Ethernet cable from my last on this quickly so this is an air actually up into desktop thing but it's something that I'd like to see in in into twenty four so I tell me how to be able to play with installing a into server on a Ross reply and when you instill raspberry on a raspberry Pi you have an option when that you can connect to with a remote terminal service okay do you have a like persistent storage there as well right and also you know when you're thinking about me this burn a laptop Darcy's connect to this cloud instance of a workstation so so can you already run vanilla into it workspaces no you he would ssh marsh us host and once you're connected you could then unplug the network cable and Marshall Detect the network is going away when the network I've been reacquainting myself with marsh which is a remote terminal application that allows rooming and supports intimate connectivity so lists for a boon to mostly to desktop twenty four we'd love to know what yours are so send them to show at into poker file in the boot partition just SSh it will do that for you so yeah this nice bit provisioning there anyway those were our wishes you're making USD card you can create a file which will enable the SSH server by default so we have to do is stick your card in the Rosbif Pie into image that you could just stick on the card and you didn't have to plug it into a monitor ever you could just stick on your network and you could connect to it remotely by feel like that should all just happen magically he's just be at a stall plumer on run plumer and Egypt has it come on blind love for us this week I do I've been reacquainting myself with this because I've got a bunch of servers at home and I frequently ssh into them while I'm you install developer tools on windows you get to the company's website and you download they set up a new double click on it right and then you take into a wizard the take she threw you know John and now it's time for all your wonderful feedback then he sparrows emailed us at show it had been to podcast dot org I use open media volts ever org if you love the come line as much as we do send us a command that will blow our minds and we might even mentioned on the show send your command line learn gun full retro with Modems and stuff at actually it has a GSM as well so has has it'll so yeah you can switch Jimmy of those now on show at Apple podcast dot org and you can log into it plug it into net welcome is there whereas with a boon to you actually have to plug it into a screen and keyboard store my photos which get backed up to an external hard drive locally I have until recently been using Jupiter catchy to back up my photo library to Amazon cloud goals yes no no your your laptop that's only got server installed and it has WIFI Okay Eileen for that I thought emailed US I'm refreshing photographer and I use open source solutions for nearly all of my workplace I'm also an IT freshman with five years on the job my workflow starts by Jessica also emailed us for the most part I use my phone to take most of my pictures every few days I opened the gallery of my phone review recent pitches and delete the bad ones tim show up to Bantu podcast so I am reliably informed that Allen support or just do away with the service very frustrating yes I think you may be able to use our clone which is a means to it comes back maybe via wireless or maybe plugged in network cable by Kenny carries left off or maybe via modem on your what are you running on your phone our interest which which operating system I could take a guess but I'd love to know and Challah ru emailed us must you like all sink style data to the various cloud Akins so maybe take a look at by myself problem for you call copy the ingestion step which is placed on external rate five stories drive I'm running sink thing on my workstation and once the copies made another copy is made to a home I recently discovered the Amazon stop supporting the API that dupleix Kathy uses so I now need to find another cloud service to back out to you never know when these companies will the choices and also I can endorse rapid photo download that is a fantastic way to get images and videos of your camera it does exactly what it says on the Tin and it keeps commission it's really good we love getting your feedback if you've got the comments about something you here on the show why don't you drop his name well that's all for this bumper episode episode