11 Episode results for "Lena Epstein"

374 - Real-World Villains

Scriptnotes Podcast

59:19 min | 2 years ago

374 - Real-World Villains

"Uh-huh. Hello, welcome. My name is John August. This is episode three hundred seventy four script notes a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting to scream editors today on the show. It's a new round of how would this be a movie where we take a look at stories in the news and discuss how they can be turned into big screen, entertainment or realistically, small screen entertainment. Because that's where all the action is. Plus, we'll be answering a listener question about on Somboon movies. But we're only do this. If people vote because this episodes coming out on election day. So if you are a US citizen who is of age to vote. Stop what you're doing right now and go vote and come back and listen to this episode after you voted said fair, I think it's more than fair. And if you're still here, and you haven't voted and you're still listening. I'm angry. So now, you'll enjoy the gift of my anger. What are you doing stop? It. Do you enjoy this? Do you like podcasts and people saying what they wanna say and freedom, and I don't know a planet that isn't sweltering hot just go and vote just go vote. Dum dum. And then come back. Yeah. We're recording on a Friday. I have no idea what I'm actually going to do on Tuesday other than sort of Anik a little bit. Well at this point. I'm preparing curl up into the fetal position. But anything anything better than that will be joy. It will be a joy. What is also joy is the random advice episode that is now out for people to listen to. So if you're a premium subscriber, you can subscribe to scripts dot net, you have for you to listen to the random advice episodes record is good so good. It's actually. A delightful episode. It has almost nothing to do with screenwriting just other stuff. Right. That listeners a wrote in with their questions, and we are so good at everything. Yeah. We got opinions on boast everything we answered most is really good. I mean, we're really good at this. And I mean for buck ninety nine she's Louise I mean eager not voting you're not giving us two dollars a month. Well, good are you? I'm talking to you listeners. What what good are you? This is out. I designed like to drum up listenership, just direct abuse. It's it's it's a strategy on several people have written to us about film. Struck shutting down. I was not a subscriber to dumbstruck, which is probably part of the reason why it was me. My you did it. I was the person I did it. But it ties in very well to this competition, we had earlier about missing movies, and sort of the research I'd done on on moves that are no longer available. So film struck was one of the ways that some people can see some of those movies that were missing. But of course, the answer is that there's you can't have one service that rely on to solve all of the problem of his movies, and it has to be a systemic situation where the people who own copyright on his movies, actively put them out there in ways that people can see them and dumbstruck up by itself. Couldn't do that feel like I'm the reason it shut down because I did subscribe to film struck and I enjoyed it Melissa enjoyed it. And so, of course, that that was it just big big beef found out that we were enjoying it. And they took it away. I for years I paid for Cinemax. I don't think I watched anything on Cinemax now and Cinemax is still going strong. I think I have CBS all access have haven't used here you go haven't you? But you will once you turn nineteen. Oh, this is cheap shot. You know, what that was a sheep shot that? That's it's fine. Yeah. Luke in San Diego to us and said, thank you for singlehandedly bringing back the rom com, which we did I so that was in the repeat episode of the tests. Moore's oh on rob comps. Yes, we did. So I wonder if you could work your magic to bring back my all time favorite film genre. The terrible live action family Christmas comedy law. Chris at the cranks deck the halls and four Christmases, and it seems like all the bad Christmas movies come out in Hollywood. These days are either animated features or rated comedies. We please. Help return the true spirit of Christmas to our cinema screens. There is a genus of of sort of corny Christmas comedy jingle all the way is one of my favorites is Gordon and the reason that they're corny is because Christmas is corny. I mean, the whole thing. It's like let me see what will the theme of this Christmas movie be. It is better to give them to receive done. It's always the same thing. It's always family and faith and spirit and giving that's what Christmas is about. It's over the over and over and over and over and over and Harare. So I don't know do we need more. Or can we just sorta live off the stored up fat of this particular onre? I don't know. Maybe we do need more. Maybe we need. I mean, I'm sure we have the African American family version of this. But there's certainly always new opportunities to do new versions of this. I also just really kind of want to be on the set when it's like July and everybody has to wear their parkas, and they're just miserable and your your. It's fake snow everywhere. That's just a movie magic of Hollywood that that is never fun never fun for a scene where someone in our show had to be in a snowy park wearing a parka bundled up because it's it's Ukrainian winter and pregnant so wearing a pregnant padding, and I think it was probably ninety four degrees that day unpleasant, or as they would say over their thirty one celsius. I I tried to really master myself says while I was living in France at his never really did it it makes so much more sense. And yet I loved the granularity that we can sort of distinguish between like, oh, it's seventy two versus seventy three exactly normally I'm with them on this. I get it. Metric system base ten the whole thing. Yup. Yup. Totally but the extra gradations of temperature actually quite valuable, so yeah. A little bit of a trade off for some reason our water freezes at thirty two instead of a rational zero and water boils at two hundred twelve instead of a rational one hundred but we do have that you know, what you like I like my office at seventy four. That's what it was twenty on whatever. Mike my husband's listening right now. Just so Crump. Good. He loves the metric, of course celsius. Do you wanna take this thing about New Jersey? So we got a little bit of a communica DOE in from met with the day job. And he writes last summer, I was approached by production company via my agent to a deputy comic book series into a feature film. They sent me the comic and even put me in touch with its creator a win for the pitch. And it was just as Craig said, it was a fantastic conversation about what made both myself and the executives passionate about that story. They then asked me to write a brief outline of what I saw the movie to be before any formal deal was signed being the new writer on the block and not really knowing any better. I agreed. This began a are you sitting dear listener, a six month process of writing and rewriting an outline that varied from eleven pages to Twenty-eight pages long. I was otherwise unemployed at the time. So as you can imagine this process was incredibly frustrating after several drafts totalling. Somewhere around eighty pages across various drafts. Like, Craig I lost the job to quote, we decided not to make this movie during this time my agent encouraged me to do the same with two other projects with another production company. So for seven months I worked on multiple drafts of multiple outlines for multiple projects. Needless to say, I felt completely duped and foolish. Oh, and I will never ever do that. Again. I wish John that this were a rare story, but it is not it is not an even in his last week talking to some working matters you, and I both know this kind of thing still happens where there's like, oh, could you just right up this thing because it's between you this other person. And this could help put you over the top and. So what map does bring up here is that in this case, the agent said to do it. We've also heard from people said like all my manager told me to do it managed holds me. It's totally normal gatz. It's bad. That's that's not good because the agent and manager they're not getting paid for that free work either. So it should be in their interest to make sure their clients are being paid to right? And yet they seems to forgotten that key part of their job. Yeah. Your your agent or your manager who tells you should do this is literally saying the following to you, whether you realize it or not I your Representative do not feel that I can get you employment unless you debase yourself in this manner. I just don't think I can do it. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough to call this production company and say you like my client, you think they're amazing hire them, otherwise, I'm too smart to let my client work for six months and generate free labor for you in violation of a number of laws, by the way because a lot to do that. And and then. Yeah. And then. Not not get the job. So I'm not good enough to handle that for you. Dear client, therefore, you should just go do that. That's what they're saying to you. They're useless. They're worse than useless in this situation. You're better off without an agent or manager giving you this terrible advice, and to the people that do this to writers all I can tell you is your time has come. We're not gonna stop talking about this. We are not going to stop. You are going to stop because we're going to keep telling these stories and sharing these stories. The thing that ruins your little plan is when we all talk to each other and realized how often eat doesn't turn into anything except misery. So listen at home friends, when you say will, you know, Joan Krueger just trying to keep us from doing things because the can keep us out of the business know what we're trying to do is save you from the misery that Matt had to deal with and I'm going to repeat again, six months eighty pages. No employment. Yep. I'm trying to think of other industries that have agents managers and people trying to be hired to do things and where this would be possible. So I think about professional athletes, and like, you know, the agent for pressure athlete. The manager pro athlete is not going to let them go and play for six months for free hoping that they'll get signed on the team that just doesn't have it. I mean, the equivalent would be a trial. Right. So you you're not signed go to a tryout great go to a trial camp. That's a week or two. But you're not going to let them go on for all they're going to do is get injured and they're not. It's like, what are we playing for you or not you have enough information to decide? Yes, or no do it. Because what they can't do what any team can't do is see enough to go guaranteed. This guy's gonna help us win a championship. Nobody knows anything. You gotta let it just happen. Just let it happen trust it have faith. So if you were a model with it manages owner, no just go and let them take a ton of photos. Don't let their take a ton more photos. Let them use your photos. Let no definitely go. Spend six months note that. Say like you wanna take this person's picture that is a jaw taking up their time. That's the thing is it is also really their time is what they are billing, and they should Bill for that time their time is being abused. And also there I honestly just think that they're they are being abused. Their their person hood is being abused by this behavior and the people who did this this production company or if you are in a production company right now, new you work for one. You're listening to this. I want to tell you take the seriously, we're not, you know, we're not just mouthing off on a podcast it stopping we're coming for. We're going to share names, we do that. We know. And we're you know, what I'll start saying names on the show. I don't care I'll blow my career up. I'm basically good. You know what I mean? You know, what I mean like, I don't care anymore. I really don't. It's enough already. He's been pushed too far I've been pushed too far nothing. Luckily, I got nothing left to lose. I've one day to retirement. Halloway cliche is on top of this guy. He is it goes into this journey. I'm getting too old for this poop Katie wrote in. She said Ivan catching up on about two years at script notes episodes and just today reached episode three forty six the upset with Christina Hodson. The question of how to indicate a casting that characterised, quote, unquote, open gave me an idea why not work to implement and popularize shorthand abbreviation at needs open race or non-specified race. It could be as simple as teddy Johnson early thirties. Oh, are or NS are removes his jet pack and glowers at the gathered crowd. Even if anybody's choose not to use it. It could become a recognizable at accepted term that could help writers executives and casting departments move towards a more diverse range of actors, what do you think of OR, and as our this is not a bad idea at all the things like abbreviations like, oh are NS are may seem a little unwieldy. But then again, we have lots of abbreviations that we use in screenwriting all the time that are a little odd. Like, oh, S and v o and blah, blah, blah. However. Yeah. I think is something like this is going to have a prayer of succeeding it needs to be employer driven. Because ultimately, it's the studios that set the standards for screenplays. If all the studio said, listen, this is the thing part of our screenplay deal. It's in your contract is that this is part of the format we use then we would use it. But if you're just going to ask screenwriters in general to do it. It's just going to be incredibly difficult to reach critical mass, especially because most screenwriters and most screenplay material is for television where the cast is already in place. Although every television show is always bringing in new address a tube to play new little parts. And so there's there's always casting that's happening on a weekly based on television. I think television may actually be the opportunity I could see if a network or studio or even just to show decided like, oh, no what we're gonna always just market anything that it's an SR, and it's going to be just make it clear to our own internal team that like we are looking for a broad range of of different possibilities for this role. I don't. That they put just my impression of of television running it can be wrong. Just from what I've seen is. They don't really call the stuff out in their scripts. It's more because they're in production. All the time. It's a it's a casting breakdown kind of thing. I mean, but as I suspect racist still indicated in scripts where it's important even television, even like episode eleven of a right where it's important for sure. But here where it's not, I don't know. I think if studios and enlarge production companies made it part of the format than yes. But hard to to get people to just kind of piecemeal adapt, it, that's my that's my gut. That's got to. But if this already existed, I would be delighted for short exist. Yeah. It certainly I mean, it seems like it would be helpful. I think. All right. I'm a bigger topic was suggested by Aaron Sauerland, he tweeted at me, he said, hey, John, August, have you seen Mazen ever done an episode on writing scripts with an ensemble cast, my writing partner, and I already right now and love any insight on balancing characters or a story like that Craig you, and I have both written on Somboon movies. I'm so let's talk through some general advice for Aaron and his writing partner as they are started on. There's sure well, no matter what the unsolvable is. There's going to be one main character in meaning one protagonist. There will be typically on on samba films. A stories b stories c stories. There are some true on samba films, which are more in the kind of love actually mode where you are actually dividing a movie into really three movies that you're running simultaneously or something like that. And that's not this but for proper ensemble. I think you have your main story with your main character. And then there's a subset. Sorry with sub characters. John Hughes would do this quite a bit. You just to make sure you know, who's who? And and then you have to make sure that all the characters have a purpose. There is a thing that happens sometimes. And I I will see actually interestingly on sitcoms where three people four people six people are confronted by somebody and one of the group has a back and forth with that person. And everyone else is just standing there. And that can be awkward real even after a minute or two you start to wonder why people are just standing as you were describing the kinds of movies that are on symbols. I should break them down a little bit more because I guess I I have one idea for onslaught movie is, but there's clearly are kind of many different on Sola movies. So something like the hangover is is what you're describing where. Yes, there are multiple characters. But there's one character sort of going to protagonist over the course of it. And the other countries we're going to have a function that, but I look at a movie like go, which truly has you know. Protagonists in each of its sections. And so, you know in each of those chapters of different character. It really is the central character in the one who has to go through the biggest change, then you look at Robert Altman movies, which just have a bunch of people who are just doing stuff, and it's hard to say that that one character is the central care for the film, in fact in an outlet movie. Generally, you could take out one entire character from the whole movie, and the movie would still work. So they're kaleidoscopic in that way. What Aaron should maybe keep in mind as his running partner started is that within a scene like what you're describing in the sitcom thing, we're like one she was driving other characters or just sitting there and said something we talked about to go. I think on the show you're going to have one character who's the central character in that scene in his sort of the hero of that scene. And if you think of every scene is being its own little movie is probably going to be one person who is the central character in that moment, and you had to figure how to use the other characters to support that may care. Actors idea in that sequence continued that through the whole movie, and even if you're doing an Altman esque movie, or like go that has truly most will pretending this big fish, also multiple protagonists. You're still looking for a thread that follows a single character even those multiple characters around you. Yeah. And again, I I tend to think of on samba movies as more a unified story with a lot of actress sort of rotating around it as opposed to more of the kind of fragmented storytelling, which is more of the Tarantino kind of action in Pulp Fiction. I think goes well, it's a bit. You know, there's there's there's intersections right? But it seems like there's sort of somewhat independent stories going on chapters and chapters, whereas a like when I think of a classic on samba film. I think of some of the bridesmaid's where there are a lot of characters, and you do get to follow these mini stories, and what's very important for you. Aaron is you're balancing these things out. And you understand what your ace story is. And you understand what you'd be story is. No that okay. The a story needs to have the most stuff in it and the most emotionally complicated stuff, and it sort of needs the biggest beginning middle and end the beat as you go down the list of B C D, the stories need to get simpler, and shorter simpler, and shorter simpler and shorter to the point where unin de story. It may just be somebody wanted something in the very beginning of the movie, and they get it at the very end that it literally could be that. But it's really important to also keep in mind that when you have characters that feel really peripheral to the movie at some point they need to become incredibly important. It is just satisfying. When for instance, in bridesmaids, we see Melissa McCarthy's character. And we think she's just a goof and for while she is just goof, she isn't really super friendly with our main character and she steals puppies. She's kind of crazy, but any crucial point in the film. It's Melissa McCarthy's character who finally shakes Kristen wigs character out of her funk and says stop it. Go. Oh, be the better you she becomes incredibly crucial to the story. And that's really important. That's what you wanna see in a movie where you're layering people. Make that somebody that you didn't think was that important become super important. Suddenly we like them. Yeah. So a movie of my own night. But it wasn't the first thing that came to mind is Charlie's angels. So in the Charlie's angels movies. There is no one protagonist the three angels are all heroes protagonist and not any one of them is the main character, they're all three of the main character. And so one of the great challenges of that movie is trying to build our for all three of them. So they each had their own journey. So that each have affected to this journey that still have a a villain. Plot is still have overall surprises and twists that makes it really challenging because every scene has to do a bunch of different work to service, you the movie plot. But also service really the character moments the story moments that the going through so in that case, I think what's really crucial is to remember. That care if you're sort of dividing that protagonist role between they need to all be addressing the same central dramatic question. The same thematic issue just from his different way. So that they all feel like they need to be in the same because our all tackling the same the Matic territory on if you just have cared who's nothing but just a wildcard who's now out there throw hand grenades. You can't give character too much time or else they're just going to pull the movie into a very bad place. And that that's a really good point. And one thing I would say to you Erin is if you do kind of confront people saying well, everybody needs their own arc. Everybody needs the kind of attention and focus that the main character gets think about just as a point of rebuttal think about a movie like the big chill where you can kind of see where the main characters are, and you can see the ABC story. But you also can say reasonably that the character arc for a number of those characters is the relationship. That they all share that's kind of it. So it's a little bit of a family story. Like, we as a family have a problem, we as a family confronted, we as a family move past it that's reasonable. And in this way. You don't end up having to do individual little stories for every single person, it becomes exhausting and more importantly it begins to feel super fake because in life. We're not all equally struggling with really important stuff. That's going to be handled in the moment of the story of the movie. Most of those lives are not going to fall into that two hour block of screen time that we're talking about. So it is unrealistic to think that had this giant transformational journey over. The course that has two hours. But I just now realized what movie Aaron is writing he is writing the PG Christmas comedy that people so desperately want. So that is the ensemble movie that I'm sure Erin his writing. And I cannot wait to see what he and his writing partner where every single elf needs a backstory Depp, everyone every one of. Yeah. So I mean, you know, it's it's Tim Allen's coming back in all weapons as new sequel to the Santa Claus as Tim Allen's like handing off the mantle to the next person. Right. There was a Santa Claus. And then there was the Santa Claus owes the sequel this plus to is one or was it had like a funny name like all right? Like, the re close. I can't remember this matter. All right. What sold we had an item. You can look it up. Let's get to our main topic. Which is how would this be a movie? So this is how this works people send us either by Email or by tweet saying, hey, Johnny Craig how would this be a movie and a link to an article that they found in the news that they found fascinating. And they are all fascinating. So I will say that people do a very good job of sending us stuff. So in our outline here, we have at least ten things that I've passed on because they were good. I shouldn't find them. Interesting enough to be our marquee topics here. But in the show notes, we'll have links to all the things that people have also submitted because there's good stuff. There is a love story that ended the Texas prison system. There is a woman who made her ex thinks she was dead for five years after he dumped her by text Denver did for five years that he was a dad for five years. I think the I think the verse version could be a movie, but both can be good and and heroin. There's there's always heroin and drugs, but the ones I picked for today. Three of them are about real world villains and some of them have sort of political connections and the other two are just delightful. So let's start with this first one. So this is from Laura Wellesley writing for NPR mystery, novelist. Wife kills chef husband after pending two thousand eleven essay on how to kill once husband, basically this woman. She had written a blog post, and she's also survey an author of the sort roses blog post by your husband than her husband dies. And everyone's was like, wait. Did you kill your husband and just like me? So also, the visuals are helpful here. Because the woman kind of looks like my grandma, I'm so it wasn't, you know, she's not a young woman. She is she's an older she is a sixty eight sixty eight years old. It's this is an interesting one. So what's sort of fascinating is when she writes, this this essay, the thesis of the essay, basically is it's really easy to get caught killing someone you should probably be really really careful about it. Here's what you don't wanna do. Don't do. This don't do this don't do this. And the conclusion essentially was you know, what it's she writes, quote, it's easier to wish people dead than to actually kill them years later. She proceeds to make a century every single mistake that she interested in that essay. Which makes me think that in fact at the time she wrote it was not at all any kind of indication of premeditation that that something had happened in the last couple of years that had sent her on this path where? She decided to just shoot her husband who apparently was a lovely, man. And who it seemingly treated her? Really? Well, so the question is what do you do? How do you make this a movie, and I do think that there's an interesting deal here where and maybe an editor starts working with a promising novelist who is writing a mystery novel. And and the editor does what editors do, which is to constantly means test and logic challenge this person's murder mystery and keep saying no you'd be caught doing this be caught. She supposed to be. No, you're killer supposed to be a genius. And then one day when it's done perfectly the authors husband disappears. And then the only person that knows for sure. Or lease. She suspects that she is essentially helped this woman designed the murder of her spouse become a cool. I mean, they could be a cool sort of gone baby gone kind of movie. Yeah. So this idea from ABI strikes me as a Joe Astor house classic. So juster house people don't know with the premier's Freeman are really prominent screw matter of the eighties as we were getting started. So he did Basic Instinct he to jagged edge, which I always loved Jack nitrous if bat an author Basic Instinct, Catherine trial had also written a book about murder, so it feels like that kind of space. So the fact that she's sort of grannies Eliza twist on this is so whether you keep that junk keep that I like Craig's basic pitch for it that you have somebody who has insight into this author ahead of time. It has to figure out what's really going on. What was good about basic, actually 'cause jagged edge was that the person who has insight into it is also kind of falling for the person who may be the. Murderer right, which is a nice aspect of a to one of my favorite moments. In jagged edge is Glenn Close has the typewriter and types he is innocent. And a t is misaligned exactly the way that it was in this one clue right? That that was great well done. Joe Astor house took. Yeah. I think there's something here, and you don't have to go goofy. With it. You could go straight thriller. We just don't make those thrillers very much more. Well, we don't in theatrical unless it's based on a very popular novel, Allah Gami begun in even in that circumstance. You still need a top flight director in a top-flight. Well, police somebody they consider to be a movie star or else it's not going to happen. But they do make things like this all the time for television. Now, Joe Eszterhas was famous for the he did it. He didn't do it. He did it structure. So you would kind of be lured into believing that this person whether it was Jeff. Bridges, or whether it was Sharon Stone was clearly the killer. And then as you got deeper, and you realize oh my God. They're not they're not the killer. And the real killer is going to get away with this. Because this person just seems so awful that we thought they were the killer. The very end of the movie, I don't know they were the killer. It was his he he was as Goto you. He's he's a number of times. But yeah, I think there's something here. I think it's a good concept at least to kind of put a fresh spin on a murder mystery where there's something a little throw momma from the train about it. Also, you know, I don't know there's a dark comedy aspect to it. I think it can happen here. These straight up direct version of this. No it needs to it. Just needs to be you just need a little bit of a inspiration from this. I would say. One quote that served to quote here. I'll read I have sad news to relate, my husband best friend. Chef Dan Brophy was killed yesterday morning for those of you are close to me and feel this deserted phone call. You're right. But I'm struggling to make sense of everything right now. She wrote I appreciate all of your responses. I am overwhelmed. Please say phone calls for a few days until I can function. I thought that I believe that. I mean, it's sort of pulled trying to pull their stuff together. I get that. And then later on asked whether the police have been keeping her updated. She said, no, I'm a suspect without emotion. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The those those pretty good a neighbor said of her in the days following the murder. She never showed any signs of being upset. Her said, I would say she had an error for leaf. Those godson. That's yeah. Yeah. Maybe don't don't have an air of relief now. No, let's go on our next door. Craig I picked this one for you. Because I felt like this woman might drive you. I just don't I don't understand what's happening here. So this article entitled never go full Trump Bellina Epstein story, and this was written by somebody actually know Josh Marshall who I came to know at the last college reunion. I went to because he's married to a former college mate of mine. Oh nice. Yeah. Great guy does excellent work. He is the primary editor writer at talking points memo dot com, which is a political blog quite quite good stuff over there. But the way they have a new thing like t- PM gold, or I don't rhyme or I did it. I did it. I did it because PM you supported your supporting media. Yeah. Yeah. I'm supporting the media. And we don't advertise anything close to advertising something. So this article never go full Trump. Lena Epstein story is essentially, but this bizarre moment that happened recently where vice President Mike Pence held a. Event fundraising event, I believe on behalf of candidate. Lena Epstein she is running for what what is she running for. It's done entirely clear. She's running for so she she's a Republican candidate running for. I believe it is congress congress congress Michigan. She's running for the house of representatives in the eleventh district of Michigan. She is the daughter of one of one of Michigan's wealthiest Jewish families. She is Harvard educated, and she was a dyed-in-the-wool democrat until at least mid twenties. And then she went kind of super far, right? And what makes this particularly bizarre. Is that at this event? Mike Pence had a rabbi quote unquote, named Lauren Jacob's who's asked to say a prayer in behalf of the eleven Jews murdered at the synagogue in Pittsburgh, and it turns out that Lauren Jacobs. I think kind of got invited there by Epstein. Except learn Jacobs is not actually a rabbi learn Jacobs was. Was a clergy in the Jews for Jesus movement, which is a cult. He nodded all Jewish thing that Jewish people really I can tell you as a Jewish person. When I grow up like they were spoken of in the harshest possible terms. But amazingly Lauren Jacobs wasn't. He wasn't even good enough to stay a rabbi for them, even they kicked her out. So this is a double doubly defrocked rabbi, quote, unquote. But what's interesting is the notion of a candidate who is of a certain ethnicity that begins to pal around repeatedly with people who seem to be in direct opposition of her faith her ethnicity, her background, John? What do you what do you make of all this? So I found her to be a fascinating character. And so she is whether she is the central character who you're actually seeing the whole world through which is that's an exhausting movie. But but kind of fascinating or she is a character off to the side, the annoying sister of of actual. Arguments rested deal with her. But there was something rate about it's exactly what you're describing is that like you seem to be promoting something that is completely antithetical to your cultural heritage and your name is self interest. But just like, it's, you know, it's just like you're doing a disservice to your people, and she is fascinating that those ways might be kind of a Reese Witherspoon character from like, you know, if one of her sort of election type day election election character, but taken really really dark and sort of self serving I thought she was really just fascinating. Yeah. I think that this is a character more than a movie, I think, you're absolutely right. And it feels to me like if you were doing kind of an ongoing dramatic series, for instance, about politics or a wealthy family or something like that that that having one of the people be strangely affiliated with folks that want it sorted that self hating minor. Already trope, I guess, but it's not really a trope. I mean having grown up as part of a minority group in the United States. I saw it. I mean, it's a thing. It's a real thing. There are people that come to sort of internalize the external criticism of the group they're in and they kind of turn on it. I mean, there's the gay Republicans or the case for Trump like, oh, he'll be the best number four. There's like I have seen that firsthand. And and that's the equivalent of that in my. What's her face Jenner Jenner? Caitlyn Jenner Caitlyn Jenner. And finally was like, oh, well, maybe should I I have not. Okay. Let me silly goose. So yeah, I think a character here's real, and I think that the mechanism the psychological mechanism of self hatred is actually quite fascinating and complicated. And importantly in. There is a kernel of something that I think we can all empathize with because inevitably you start to see how someone has been a bit manipulated by the world around them that in their desire to pass which is a real phenomenon that has been studied numerous times, they begin to separate from the truth of who they are. And where they're from. And it is there is a kind of empathy. You can have for people like that. But it becomes tested a severely tested. When for instance, the case of somebody like this she's found to be following and liking posts from people like David Duke, who is of course, a a Nazi and. Now, that's not good. It's not good. I think where we both end up is that she is a great character. As part of an ensemble, probably recurring dramas or something like a succession. Yeah. Our she's like one of the siblings in that kind of show greed, but you probably don't base everything around her a great, a great, a similar, but also delightful thing from this past week is the humiliating crash and burn of a pro-trump mediates. Dr take a ball is the best political story of the season. I'm Lee into an article by destined roles for about. But there's a zillion other things you can follow this rabbit hole. All the way down this. I just found delightful just played I knew in a general sense of Jacob all was and it just became crazier and crazier so Jacob oh for people who are lucky enough. Not to know who he is disgraced of financial trader, and I saw that. But he's like twelve teenager his twenty years old, but he's already banned for making. Financial trades because of stuff he's done super pro Trumper Instagram or and just a hell, but so he's trying he was trying to peddle this story about Robert Muller heading committed a rape at some point in the past. And he's going to have a witness. It was trying to get different news outlets to buy into the story. All of them said I don't think that's going to be accurate or real. And they were right. And this is come to bite him it a delightful way. So again, I really thought he was a fascinating character. It reminded me a bit of shattered glass on if you raised grace journalists reminded me a bit of that. But Craig what do you take? There's a movie to be made around him, or this this circus think around the circus. Maybe there is something fascinating about the gang that couldn't shoot straightness of this. Because what happens here is he? Creates his own source. So essentially, he says some intelligence firm has gathered this intelligence and has given it to me. I guess I don't know why. Well, turns out that this intelligence company doesn't really exist. It's he's smart enough to create a fake website for it, which is very much shattered glass, not smart enough to leave his name off the rich, the the the actual registration for the domain name. But he just keeps digging which is amazing. He says I've got a picture of the woman who was going to testify, and so he, but I blanked her face out, and then somebody just did it reverse image. Search and it was like, Nope. That's your girlfriend. It's just he's so inept, you only feel like weight is he working for the Democrats because he's so bad at this. I mean, I couldn't think of anything more exculpatory for Bob Muller than this dingaling attempting to smear him. So. So terribly. I mean, it's so incompetent and incompetence on that level one has to look at his comedy. I don't know. How else you look at it? I think you're right. And so the gift that I saw applied most to this whole story as it was breaking was Brad Pitt from burn after reading. And so he's just like pumping the air because he's like so convinced he's like made a big score his really landed it, and so there's a Coen brothers kind of quality jettisoned. So you can see this as you can see this as an episode like veep, but it's more than courts Coen brothers. Like, you had no business even getting into this realm. And now you're going to be usually Marisol, not just usually embarrassed. But the FBI is investigating this because it's a crime. And I mean, what he was doing was essentially creating fraud and making false accusations. And at some point, it's it's your deal. You're forgot sake. You're doing it to the former director of the FBI. I mean, look, you know, you wanna egg someone's house, maybe maybe drive past the former town police share. House casino like, you know, the world works. I mean cheese. Louise, anyway, he's incredibly stupid, but he gonna do so dumb. So dumb dumb. So I don't know that there's necessarily movie here. And I loved the book I love the story that became shattered class, and I tried to get the rights to that. Billy Ray got the rights to to meet a really good movie. But I think part of the frustration of watching that movie is you are spending all your time watching this character squirm. You don't really like. And that's all it's it's hard to sit with that character for right? A hundred minutes two hours because it's just really uncomfortable. And you just kind of want to get away from now. Although I don't know if you watch Fargo, I mean, that's kinda what they that's the bread and butter there. And and they do it very very, well, you you do sort of sit there and watch you know, you and McGregor be a weasel. For a number of episodes. And it it grabs you so. I mean, I think you're right. And that is a cone brothers world. Right. I mean, even though they don't do that show. So I think there is a Coney brother the kind of thing here. But in the lens of what's going on right now. It's just how did Coen brothers characters actually become news in real life. Yeah. Boy. Well, let's let's take a look at this this next one. This is called Nicole from last night in this story, which was sent to us by sorry. It was written by Maya Kappler for the Huffington Post. So a gentleman named Carlos Tino, who's a student at the university of Calgary meets a girl one night in a bar, and he had some off with her, and he helps her friend get home. But and he knows her name and she gives him her number, but she accidentally gave him the wrong phone number. So he can get in touch with her. Or was it an African that's part where we're. Not really sure. So her name is Nicole. So he writes, a an Email to all two hundred forty seven people in the university of Calgary's directory whose name included some variation of the name, Nicole, even including. Professors and the emails simply said, hi, this is a mass Email to all Nicole's if you don't fit this description, then ignore and if you are the one and just don't wanna talk to me. That's okay as well. If your name is Nicole and your from Holland, and you think Nietzsche's depressing. The text me is number on Carlos, by the way. I'm the guy took you and your front homeless night. So I mean, he he gave her an out there. You know, he said if you don't want to talk to that's fine. And what happened was all these Nicole's were like, this is interesting and started emailing each other what's unified him at that point. It just became this like weird Nicole from last night club, which now is eighty members and they hang out. Which is hysterical. And the mystery Nicole was identified, and she actually did I think connect with him and agreed to see him for a date or something like that, which is romantic. So I dug this story. I I think there's something to do here. So it's it's the intersection of that guy in the movie who does the big romantic gesture like I've got to find this girl in like the consequences of that are I love all the other women coming together. I love that the original girl. I finally actually does find it was like, oh, yeah. Like, I guess I really I truly did mess up. I give you the wrong number on. Yeah. We could go out on a date. But the sense of like all the Nicole's is kind of rate. And so I feel like there is a thing to be done here. I agree to and I think you put your finger on the part look the deal where someone goes. Hey, miss connection. I've seen this billion times. There's nothing new there. What's new is that all these Nicole's former Nicole army, and there's so many ways to go about this. I mean, the wrong conversion version is that the Nicole that he's actually trying to reach is a little frazzled or worried or something and all these Nicole's kind of get together to find her. Maybe and to help her. I don't know do something that's a very sort of old school romantic comedy. But I'm more interested like this is a bad, dude. And the Nicole army is like there to protect Nicole. And also like take him down the idea of like the your toilet ensemble. You've got, you know, a cast of eight women, and they have nothing in common. They never met each other before except that they're all named Nicole. And they got they got a problem with this guy. That's kind of cool. I kind of like that. So the other variation is basically like a Cinderella kind of story where he's met this girl, then can't find this girl. And so instead of her shoe as the clue he has just has her name. So is going on searching by her name in if you could create a scenario, which he doesn't never got to see her or which was unclear they're only talking on a phone. There's something like that. Then like, you know, if his putting this thing out there in the world, there are all his Nicole's. And maybe he's trying to fight there. Who was Daschle girl? I spoke with so it was in VR's as it didn't know what she really looks like and his China find right into his all these call some data is a version of that that could work too. Yeah. We've always saved or mad. I just want to make sure that we keep it going. We have to provide new logs to keep that fire burning. You know, what's interesting is that this story probably doesn't even become a story. If if Nicole isn't named the coal if she's named like, Greta or Amy evens Amy's accompanying right? Like, you know, it's not anymore. It used to be but goal is just such a combination. The but there's also just about Nicole from last night. It sounds like a title of something it and also when you say like eighty Nicole's that's really funny now as if it was like eighty Jessica's is not as funny to me or like, Jessica from less, Nicole from less. There's just something about it. It's sort of the perfect name for this story. Our last how it is being movie is a story from face to face Africa. It is written up by Elizabeth of soi Johnson. And it was just a part of World War Two that I'd never heard of before. So meet the gallant all black American female battalion served in Europe during World War Two. So the right of the story is nice. But I was honestly really drawn in by the photos. So these photos of his African American women in uniform lined up walking down the street. They were largely a nurse's core and sort of mail mail delivery, insert getting people their male. But I just never seen on say it just never seen black faces in uniform in this context and enrolled war too. And I loved seeing them. And so what we actually have in. This little write up is in very much. But there was a character, whose cares real life person who's mentioned, and I did a little bit more research on her Mary McLeod Bethune who is sort of a in a very important sort of civil rights person of the ehre who actually had a really fascinating life. I wonder if she's tied into the store you'd actually make here. But I mostly just like this as a story space. I loved sort of seeing lack American women. In Europe in World War Two. Yeah. I've seen black men in these pictures. But you're right. A never seen black women particularly in uniform together like this in the European theater. So the pictures are fascinating. I think that given that so primarily they were part of something called the six eight eight eight which I guess they call the six triple eight six triple eight central postal directory battalion. So this is an all black female battalion of the women's army corps that was sent to parts of France and England to basically deliver mail. This was several years of abandoned backlogged mail in Europe, and they were doing this during World War Two sort of talent. But during World War Two now when I see that would I think is the one thing you want to avoid is sort of saying, here's what this movie is look like women in uniform, and yes, great ascend. You don't want to turn into a see look there. Doing it. So, but what I've never seen before is a war drama about delivering a letter. And it reminded me of a little bit of that saving private Ryan feel of some small that needed to happen. That wasn't about capturing a hill or assassinating the enemy. It was about preserving some small shred of humanity for one person who is somewhere out there, and the way they sort of put it here. This could be male that needed to be delivered to one of our soldiers. But it could also be male that needed to be delivered to just somebody who live in Europe. And that meant I think that that provides a possible just storyline for good old fashioned war story and based in history. So I thought this is really like I think fairly fertile fodder for for a good World War Two movie about the kinds of people. We haven't seen before. And when I say kinds of people, I don't mean black women, I mean, mail delivery people. Like that to me. That's fascinating. And then you put on top of it. The fact that we're dealing with African American women, and this was kind of their sort of entree into the war. I think there's all sorts of interesting stuff in come out of it. Absolutely. So you know, we had other stories about postal carrier. So we have if we have the postman we we have that sense of like, you know, part of reestablishing the lot of this happens after the war. So reestablishing normalcy is like getting the mail back. It's sort of, you know, making those connections again, which I think is rate in fascinating gravel a whole we've Europe has to rebuild as you're trying to come out of this dark place and back to you know, a a normalcy and trying to find some sort of normalcy. What do think it's interesting having African American woman here is that they are completely out of their element. And so they're out of America at the time and all the challenges of America time. So while they're new challenges in Europe. They don't not carry with them or they're not not confronted every moment. By sort of the expectations of America, and it being black women in America. And so there's there could be more latitude they could they can have different opportunities in Europe in they might be able to have in the United States. They have the structure of the army. But they also there in Europe there in France, I think that is potentially great to so you can track like just the same way that the men who fought in World War Two had never expected to go to Europe in their lifetimes and semi there. In europe. These women are in Europe, it had no prior to ever be there. Yeah. So I think it's cool. I like it. I mean, there's there's good fodder there for sure, but I think you're making basically entirely new story. Yeah. With these people or you're finding you're doing a lottery search to find who those people could be that could make it all together. It would be shocked if there were enough realistic material for a grip mean because honestly when you pour through all of what happened in World War Two people are still kind of making up stuff sort of be able to do the delivery system like saving private Ryan, which I think was based loosely on. Sort of thing. You know what I mean? So I would imagine there would have to be quite a bit of invention here. All right. So it's come time for us to wrap up and figure out which of these how is is B movies would be movie because as listeners know, we have a very high track record of the things we pick almost always one of them becomes slated for development almost like people listening to this. Maybe maybe they're listening to this. So Craig if you were to pick one of the five stories, we talked about which one do you think is most likely to become a movie? Most likely to become a movie, I think or picked up her development picked up for development to tie. It's a tie between what I'll call eighty Nicole's and the triple eight six. Yeah, I think both are likely to be developed. I think both helped I think those are the two winners by far. So the other things had interesting stuff. I bet you know, the Lena Epstein story of influencing some other character down the road. But you don't need to use her. Jacob wall will find characters who are sorted equivalent of adjustable character that Jacob character will show up on a law and order SVU at some point. Yeah. But, but no, I don't think we need and it is specific details from that. I do think there's a good movie spaced around the Nicole's and this female battalion. Yeah. And I would say the odds in terms of of actually being made eating Kohl's because just in general, period pieces and more movies are hard to make their expensive. And there's sort of a built in reduction and demand that said because there is such a hunger based on lack of supply for movies about African American women in figures showed us that that can overcome the period piece, and even the sort of what you might consider to be dry subject matter of rocketry mouth. So that may actually kind of undo what I'm saying here because eighty coal seems like a fun sort of possible Rahm coming thing to do. But the triple eight six, maybe I hope somebody might look at that and say this fits a an an under served demand. Maybe we should make this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I also think the Coles like Netflix is already like, okay. When can we have that because they may be dumped it right Mack? That to know what we we need that movie up on we movie in sixty days so get chopping. So exactly I think that they Netflix Greenland that when we started talking about it, and they're currently screen tested right now. Into. Netflix slowdown guys slow down. It's like what I told my kids when they're eating Choo Choo Choo. It's time for one thing. My uncle thing was sent in by micro big Leah because he wrote it is eight tips for getting your solo play to Broadway. Microbrewery a friend of the show. He's been on the show once or twice is twice. Maybe three times. He is a fantastic writer performer and comedian his brand new show on Broadway. He wrote an article for the New York Times that small paper about how you put together a show for Broadway. A one man show for Broadway, which is delightful like all things Mike Wrigley. So I would recommend that you read this article, and then get tickets to a show and enjoy his show because it's going to be a terrific show till Mike. Rick bigly gets to be by one cool thing. But we Leah Mike. Berbie? Burbs. Burbs is a column is fantastic. A you know, it was really just a I guess a coin toss who's gonna get to recommend him as are one thing because he's a friend of our show. He's been on our show and everything he does is really really good. And I have no doubt that his show is going to be extremely well reviewed cr-. Weekly acclaimed. Because he's he's everyone's darling. Certain my darling. I love that guy and talk about a talented block of people. He lives right near urine to Coenen, Mark Heller. So believe the share a wall, actually, do I think they're gonna do duplexes sort of. I dunno thing. It's New York City. I think is really cool. You know? So anyway, Margaret breglio awesome. I'm going to see that show for sure my one cool thing is more Wade dorky or than that. It's a game called decrypt. Oh, have you played it yet? John. No, I have not I opened this up. So it's on board game. Geek, it looks like it's a board game. A and I play in this right now don't know. So here's the deal. Have you played codenames? Of course, it's great to crypto is kind of codenames in reverse. It's incredibly simple to play. So the idea is let's say you, and I are on a team together. We have four words that you can see those forwards do not change throughout the many rounds. It's like pumpkin hat sand and car and every round one of us will pick a card has numbers on it. Like one too. Four or four three three or four three two. And basically, it's giving us an order, and we're supposed to clue I need to clue to you in order. Which of those words, I want you to say back to me, wouldn't you thinking? Well, how hard is that? We're both looking at the words. What's the big deal? Here's the problem. The other team is hearing my clue words to you. They're writing them down and the deal is if they can figure out from my clue words, what our clue words are then they're going to win. So I have to clue these to you in such a way that you get them. But misdirect anybody else that might be listening who doesn't see what the words are. It's so much fun. I love it. I was introduced to it by no surprise, David Kwong. Decrypt. Oh is super fun and you can play it. Honestly, I think as a family, it doesn't really require a lot of age stuff sorta like codenames. It's great that way. It's super similar knit in about. I don't know five minutes. And then it just becomes really just becomes really fun. So big thumbs up for decrypted. I'm playing tonight. In fact, very nice. I look forward to play with you at some point in the future that's show for this week. So as always show is produced by making McDonnell Senate, but methods are also this week is by Matthew. And so it's sort of a horror theme, and I know halloween's already passed, but you knew what terror can strike at any moment. Correct. Yeah. I think I I wanna make a Halloween movie that takes place mostly on November second just like you think you out of it. They'll know. No. I like that. I like November second. Yeah. That's a pretty good. That's you know, it's like after the data dead opened up another another beachhead in the horror of. Yes. If you've been out show, you can set us a link to ask at John dot com. We needs more outposts we've got a few saved up, but we can always use more. So remember, it's just like as long as it includes version of bump bump bump, bump them. That's all in ultra has to have in it ask it's on August dot com is the place where you send your questions and follow things. Like the people who did today for short questions on Twitter. I'm at on August crisis at Seattle Mazen. You can find us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to this right now. But if you could leave us a review that would be swell because it helps people find the show you can find the show notes for this episode all opposites at John autos dot com. We will put in links to all the articles we talked about. But also a bunch of articles. We didn't talk about because there were other potentially could movies about some cases, they articles for just really long. I did wanna read them too long didn't read. Yep. But you'll find the transcript also. On-off sicom. They go up within the week of episodes, airing Andrew to find all the backups oats at script notes dot net. That's also will you find the random advice episode that we just posted which is delightful. So thank you to everyone who subscribed and in a question because that's why that episode exists. All right, Craig. Thank you so much for a fun show. Thank you, John. Cenex time.

Johnny Craig Nicole army editor John United States Melissa McCarthy Aaron Sauerland Hollywood murder Mike Pence Somboon Louise John August Cinemax France partner Lauren Jacob FBI
#6 Musiker DARI - Musik, Mensch, Meinung - Die Arenz Show - mit GEWINNSPIEL

Die Arenz Show

1:15:29 hr | 5 months ago

#6 Musiker DARI - Musik, Mensch, Meinung - Die Arenz Show - mit GEWINNSPIEL

"Hello shouldn't of you know matab. Is i buy nine four phone. The show what are in even fides could would even file into gusting winds item. I take usually fear mosaic georgia's passer own fellowship cough from spot had each progressive by me delivering. Dari high museum design shooting us above. Thank you my nothing. Da st louis did it can be found on gin entrepreneurial embassy in the materia yeah okay and twist kovac in kuntsler familiar. Dynamo taw modern than fatah jess movie. Kokin vassal does faddish. It's musica front. Forty nine anger locked tight ties eight an english field care. Tv ted kangol land as a minute advocacy knocked the switch and also calm in at the executive got us in my own view is clean cling in cobo hall minus. Father style have won over. He's been that's kind of tube of harm so from fateh the defranco's been vicky goals kvant also in the in the aweso monday. Some airtime upsets on minor. Fayza hampton midsection Says martha of meet meet eight sane fast. On this issue we Ups zombie billion industrial by listing adviser kept against intensity foods publish on absolute zone on the others. Auntie an ear on fire and party. Music tv mentioned. So outta jong putting. These doctors keeps our house by man. It'll abbas as guys issoire had to eat on line. In spotting to hop done experts oxen sluggish clubby on up to stop asthma of new foods foods speed and been unanswered slide. Speed zico commodity potted break onto the minded. A balloon does are and stuff kamata snow. We refer to wear my clothes for as a vast sean and puffy. Kara from from four dollars yuccas numbers by gluten that mankiewicz told emma foods pilot. So then how does he ask them how this process manchester fortuna shafts in kangol mid scene from amazon rookie against it citing zik coma savannah Einstein team finally odeen tala memento undesired shoo-in element gaps ideas and poems from. It's it's an arts in context by this martin on focused casino. Help me standard sideline influenced by engine. Okay vow bist danfoss by musician. Complete pushtun has that. Okay thank goodness this discount. Here's music. I had also as a club them and on the air if your kid vitamin and good cook but zooms is as close with her and give us a factoria with my football team. Nationalist skied the balls and they give us a glimpse analyst omen gives lesbians. Who can i buy for me. So helps so vital to shop these gin up on the manufacturing up donald mine french took and she moved off to her and as a necessarily no meters vitek his can grind. Wgn china the faith which will be footing quarter an online lotto latin speak to my tasks validity. Shinichi and i've done to us. I've taught him off steam on for me so good to something. Let's inside vitamin a hot so we have asked for. Let's on dan max. Schnee does keep doodo niche. Would it would want stood from fine would feel aligning. Thanks out onto her. ice us. Visit is van sous chefs to us. When yav kanoute's ms evans ziona missions on phosporous. Glue cobb boozy speller la. On don hobby signed lesson onto the posed you can on come monash via emission fence. It's important information. An ex pat night as a forced by leapt up some detail as if enough for village some Division shipped kiko alonso. contact hudson's goes over daito about canals hectic commerce khloe so target is dear but unleash suburban gyasi clobbered. Y'all nine satish stanford gesellschaft this. We've created new monday. Gladiatorial head and food speller most tuition vice we transfer. We are on. I'ma formula wounded oil more. Not finally each time. It's minds fancy. Finger is demons yet. So what was the eight hundred about varney moment out his as addition decision and it could measures of by spivey for for for. Yeah that's mostly sean. Zog faster influx negativeness skipped a conglomerate feeder spiel is. I ended up for governance and gakkai orders. Only sean shy about these are to get by momentum lobby indium colleagues of our vengeful spark don't as mitts tied for not shooting hoops. Short short sounds to nv gang. Africa strontium ozzy masterspy spion most invade pakad as hamas will. He is yes he does. The shaft is not to clean decide. Six unfitting who demand shaft does not toyota helped us make gone. So i've volleyball hundred massage. Be and eases to me of the disease come come now for investors to see if this has got the this being the vilas county so hot because the antibodies mark frostbite cook food for about nine point lights gotten the job. Here's despot when vin. Latin new to choice about one hundred internet who has led the league which she doesn't miss an ambivalent the sooners tigers control for steam exact foods but is so guy in reformulating princeton. I might combination homeless. You still does Does guns kuhlman spot next spot for the added only snuff harm statement even into santa's two yard dish zanga in excitement full spaghetti sauce on on the sporty variant with toilet invited twelve wounded visit visit so curtain a sport economy studio tommy soon missing a five hundred mile line shafting doug hush potters wound down laden onto a fun humphries donald john bachelor long and that's from parlayed into music. I'm gonna find out but for me vas and i'm nf of yorkers peck round about lonzo in the invasion of concisely cited. Become up to tanabe. I'd want land bus. Tickets will meet to long qualified. In the middle d'antoni limb comes onto hobbies automatic done sheds person attain apologies sending qualified contradict. My zeke dna form. She is my daughter of titan coverage monster. Missile does come again. And mama exploit zeke fries and mambas mr that meet us personally anyone to sports room even an affinity super but these athletes on cops fish boscombe of also this multi bot soon here on a transition motivation which movie comes amandine music. Slim gop staunchly momentum. Okay st louis. Plots and doesn't canada whom st muscle background shop ethnic sideline elegant by the imo. You by midcoast rookie saw on each. How does this thing giving us clint. She's a fantastic Lieber gazon fascinate mashed onto Tau and so. It gives absolute fund by personal. Come to pine. That's timmy madame dante. On this i the marino dead. How did you get into you. Can't come nash. About outside books on the harvesting kingland dare said zinnemann of awfully by swollen. You found intended to be the mets. Does he for minute. Dominika finding some off named linda. Then hobbies by invoke come off income martindale backstreet. Boys as long as you love me. I dare to master zuma so then hamby unfussy two hundred going. Come out i mean. I skied momentum of bush by of an advantage of afghan yet magazine. Garbage cans causing by musikari does is to spin on the talk. Talk and zico. Mark is a houghton of embarrassing for the bizarre forty amazon com often borrowed exclusive. Owns the vice show in vijay money being slashed cheap. Fuskus schenk done. How much does that settlement. Floyd doesn't allow best of with your club. Mucked about stephen d spokesman management style glide me as s needs to me. Zyppah talk on disol- to assign but had gone. Does he forgive zegers up next man. He's under the housing thing. Does concern zuzu loosey-goosey pledge commit on me but in does stations mocatta in Because she's display on via dynamo but from those of germany keeps the demanded dignity without Quicken imbalanced it's here of my visa. Commerce will have a game outta hin dominance watson on his dada use dotty. Come at speeder. Monday's practice in vico senior. Do demos. or you've gotta stomas that gets to tunes of manga bought stock gazillion onto me. And the talk me from aboard sack the him to germany shink by globeop. I think is helped by the voice on the made. It just needs to that out on the house. Side their belief does some forecasting angolan vada before these august fear forecasting steen before to hope. Not bailing comes foster and comes meaning s mcalpine since lloyd housing's acapella lighter than song. Don't come so vital comes in and sliding along doesn't anti loiter hyundai's delighted humid on piano dean. All chefs comes in as long as it's placebo and feel really hassle month per day bake would soon down perform worst drive shaft stoop and mind fire concern not an issue dollars telling us the then that's horrible. Fm oscar food tattoo as well as it's on a scooter. I'm gonna crumple evening meals. Nothing that's equaling song leaping swoops by finds of the house. Most of gladdened develop allegations seemed to stoneless. Fast hauser vice hoping. Divide episode on each other deployments to sean about that means no closer to five pacific. It was just of vison visa. Dolph come on demand by the early sign of exxon zuccaro. Alaei supernet against matters asian kudos team but he wanted shrimp seen by sister-in-law fanzine when he was coming from in youngstown at cnn. Is there of monkey virus. They pushed down kenley on kind. He defying the hits nieves. Kief kindergarten devoted fan the hose. It designed to pasta also guy lucas done under fixed. H schengen in an s and wounded in. Belinda falling blind to dishes when uncomfortable can believe you gotta believe a cockpit us as good versus lucile fixed. The wonder when van gauge. She shut up as a coffee. Was kenya's telephone iquitos. Giannino does dj type here. The voice of germany was mega unfortunate. This mid designed mississippi hardest is to the house. they say. Cloudy shutoff mega. She does start to shamas old school. It brief hiding spend casino. Don had i known divider in business until your spin up. Any dang kicks to sean. How's fun songs. Food and elsewhere and cuts are also must rice and that's another client meant to consign house. Finance languish placement universal central and zoom ultra tips and constant is casting schnitzer guessing by offbeat over the soil alison bin zayed. Common does look foolish sponsor with edge. Nervous steve martin on meters. It's the advisable stay on schefter band on demand. Phone johnny biedermann. Bangka speed mind slightly. Louis be the desire to heydari dot com. Hey lunch joining anson taco of this class by shelby got with us. Ninty hide flooding in flames. Two stanko saw don hobbies viana hauser vast monisha to vita. Then see not come come then. Obviously she integral called him to make the khandan simply may heydari to blind auditions. Viney should take off lander dishes in the book. But does it says mostly foreigners you only vice to most s my bosses in de- moment posse. It has been competing. Been around on the hub. Cooked in on books. Just assume tom This as well as anyone can always because the when does it's been the voice giving voice giving odysseus de shawn's lines liam's vendor mask and we'd see how cool disembodied sean ensure momentum on follow follow we as five. Does he stop by. Signed off now. Done by almost amazon is coaching of young information. Song oscar bed. He's using ostrich magnon format squeezing my son. I'll obviously up when he does. He's also done me from samaya. English and song writer much have eaten. Mid jaden tag madavo could follow up piece in our economy schoff. Zing medina's abe van. We see at one hundred. And should i should actually at lactating sunlen fun for nine. Roy shunt from emotion alison by the texas yellow. Davos share nine thousand mentioned in auto insurance wi fi condo towels and international as often. We start to finish. It's who we buy alcott. Esteban hits hit van shunting. Okay fights knee so start the engine. Elitist piloted i-in schmidt. I like guns my funding about when things i'd duck so biden hussien tartas schon sons. Y'all spun but he had enough him. Some analysis worked as targets. Does this fade. Had seen by the dossier dr. That's onion tug of kurds does. Tunisia told an eyelash. Knit sane between gang long. We do have some equality. Handbook dustless between most vitamin d can be free to my rainbows to pick teams us. Many other some of its must decide to off could talk. Condie matters zindabad wendy moment. Texas should get some vocal so vocal coach owned then manage my these suzanne winning when it's so gobbled one big lie. Didn't come on to sneaks around. How tasty nick stop by and up the abuna funes actor. Omar also say actions dot order any saxo near abu dhabi imanol nixon and tara's to muslim home before the opportunities schnitt bid for guessing to slide must know madeleine sets me fine up to use vessel and he thinks they abortion he's torn that's machine an in demand comex kissing around technology showdowns that. Hey good mind song when he cooks so okay. Dominic of avenue d extra and fleeing lessons under the dutch me. Las vegas and then at only. It's act there than in some nomadism. Okay amy she says lena epstein cass and concentrating that is a hostile life on talk on mafia name tag asked up feel it rains. Vitek anita rilo to bring political dot feel to the home. She called me and things. I i suppose mitigate the kind of own the england by my own affairs from the blind auditions the health converter tons active me doesn't give one eight eight lupu and lamar. Maximum eclipse viewpoints are vendors to indicate what does about kim starts saint thousand. Let's say guilty. I guess and then continue. Take say st l. on dusting as these a buzzer sounds dot diminish windisch beta off them into shakes zona. On the thing is a mighty often in mine i had to grind. Physical does have an end of people. Mutated our our nick when these are momentum the bustan from the third. And if you don coming off dubner on denver because on medium of which excited obama guns quarts of quasi bake we've got about that's would fast bone how to mia asthma. English could cite as origin kites mustache. Primo levi leeann on advice. Unopened unfunded bookish garbage strewn of their steelers dig into the end zone apollo less by poor to ask awkward and comex using at two on this interview sooners var mega afoul z. A. shoot murphy info as dominates funding from emma. Yvonne cutoff toy. No dominance media missions all. Okay yeah and so you can play one quarter field. That comes over to. Evan was authors toilet by zairean. The foreign here's an matsushima queasiness. These are the voice. Plaza these invoked. We haven't even songa. Abided these mega effect to got zealand on ballot hummus awesome. Wow as as the suicide down at. Who's been team gun shot Imanol contact on does finish human-sized clash mouth of music up to on us mcmahon. Also sean also height by shakira was twenty vincent us coming up through mountains. And she's mine that's just finishing we should the silent hours vice-premier hits deter dot. That side was the voice on tombs will get us on about. Somebody feels some team. Dear from unfinanced connection semantic doubt. And she'll be at the in congress damn by the may contact from concept does finish owned we trysofi from our site viva with but it was costing of And so here's my contractor hostile us vets and so definitive i aldea these. A by government mucks keesing filer. Yeah english is these ashore. The sanish helps to the hudson foreign had a speed to legit. So would i. v. V auden has really design but zygi kingdom abso-. It's also gonna lose by. Give us the moosehead flare engaging bus to sean for house we invite to talk to us from the plan to tour in. Fear stettin sean. I m faddish as hobbies your alice for enghien keep donald for she in front for trading on these cloud and far too often embattled shining even gun school two months. You come writer a before. Alan ball's historian dust from television comedian. Near the style you might stare garcon musica foul on these advocates fish. Pundits who hand mina as a niche. Does he does. Ding dong by sean. Not invite com conglomerates from from funding mucus. Cotton by club. I've done hostile. By fearing zine di da oscar students interested in my lloyd nevada macron's enough on bitcoin amaya days neglection went to my not convinced. Nobody shisha their hide. Initial spawned merchandise Inflatable orphee vincent until the sluggish beautiful on the eastern cassini's provided on them in their to offer twitter by the national mature democratize meter by the have me all figured on the a soviet style galvanise. Perfect love michelle relative calls and ashok book come on don valdez. Stores course but feeling valey mutterings at every continent al-sham blah blah blah do bashing displays from each us onto heads of mid answerable. Inviter will come into the less quit. India movement was about toys installation at the desk outside which feed off shell hypertensive food decent. Start as an aside from the almost john. Mitla contact eight alice to loiter conceived duarte forfeit effect kinda by the knicks queen sized. He's not so he knew blind. Auditions man muttiah is cotonou concerned. Get up this is and is given minor stuff on dutch reach. I'm start gives each nominee modern schlage ding foci until pneumonia. Lloyd ashville our hearts from medina machiavelli by the voice got in custody vanity so done by take competent economic certain buddhist one. You mentioned feeling them. Jim thome as a device of germany's question by the voice would schmidt mom by iphone. The super foulness global news just to dominate any a year as a meat on musica ended up the first movie called as push. Max vast to good comes of vegetables incomes abbas definitive and as lupus harmless english fish pass who tala mention can eight aside from the guy that site as a few in fight buster knock him off to us. Not really restrict your. Don't up the list of into. Dari is done by leaked dominant. Heat-damaged ten to eight declined. Been on for me. Domino's against him. Mark false max. Keesing needs site isla on when each to decide funding of sunda so when we get into band also it's on st andrew's eligible stop dali sunday cooler millions of forested. That's almost manifest benched. Habeas and on vici- be indecency album. Okay boban festival clinic linda. That's im- afford. Not eyelid is peckish. bronco as mathausen. Under the i'm here by donald new. Thank you out on nude often. He goes to the diner songs. Undersoil megaphone and kinna benji his blind on these offerings on avandia. So much inside spy. Simpson acts in benicia. Dari few mentioned in the tom vaz must darby finding darius music as a cloudy skies. Music says i presumably the monsoonal on st. Some hansen does point when galvin fellowship. He couldn't clean the savage nation. As each esther i money zied buffer zone between one republic of deutsche. Indus- is immanent. Gus would affect fellas gap so doesn't ending text anqing me dean relative band lasting sound on tostadas debut. I assume okay varlamov dhabi. You'd some by beauty aktuell a singer so high. All's the ap shine involved swazi. I don spanish. English should onto also please distortion in ice. Gets pd voiced releasing. No on the for the h. To give him. The hubby s non putting song added to this by com. Forgotten ambition to do it. I couldn't even by lost him esam song as varsity peninsula. I'd i lost on voter sierras. Let's assume fi zo by musa saw print deductions parkers and against polish. Get funded by guns. Nah i'm sh- mine cops much by pop music fishing quintex on schlage riskin. W about i'm asking does twice if you do. The other off cooks contest republic of deutchman two kinds of snakes qanon feature matias mandis in schmila on into under the vaulted in detect cement. I in but ceased under the advisor then pushed us embassy in off as he's been so high on is hide enhanced. My guns i moderna about your diet. Sodas me vish known disability so a game on The songs had of team does that. Stay the the hang glide. So on. So i d shined a little download portal of Fleshed kleiner anecdotally on Hutton vice cornishman. Ap putting tearful by his how wouldn't get in quote unquote lean will via the videos on doppler plus no songs martin and hunger even these include inc at the phones five dollars and when i'm done exact alien snow i'm fed. Can i some food for our songs ex common. That's also media founders albums income mahmoud zeke valley lifestyle kite village but does one hundred lieber volition spirits sandwich. Possibly a niche imamovic plan for zo. I'm amvest invite divide is is kinda hits us booking management for the void. I hit my yeah. Clark has autism and eleven dude rape off bits but the next semester. Zoll skip thousand vehicle and issue for two hundred when mine team schism because my mom asked ding las varma mutual damn busy mirage fighter. Hutton names before and had been the hamilton the and she doesn't insult their rep boot on mancha funding to date so long as this is our black motoryacht filed the view. Mclean mitch cohen. An author. Who fat from s talks video. Today's ultra dr trepca. Who latin america. Europe to hoffman. Song their mortgage. Save some iron grip on. Says we do that so we do. It doesn't like giddy. Spas mom the homeless us. Things desi my spouse but he's not like to believe us at us for about human platform went by the ep kusuma. If there's only the mafia song sign above advice until diet much bottom see in the thing is is you flexibility area. It's much song. Hotter exert of abraham against quickly yard quarterback transfiguration illiquidity is us is bist du. Dust order fledged of busy momentum. As it was it it doesn't work around. You had us thanked us mission vitamins about gunshots. shawn's on these these flow for what has been momentum game the vici- leave the as old as vice inspire yanni's so coming of russian vr and podcast. Mommy's eight so y'all been kind of doctor who findus. Duffy associates napa deficits leading to court on. Shane does he does. He's mr hyde good and they uncon- voice thank cease to stick on feud alvin by verizon asia's mantle and he's just fuel and feel like. I'm fred how leaders he my line of right of luzon iphone. Modern does in townsville coming out for socialism. Busy eds nasa's for us would be done to pop sign in front of us with. Tom shouldn't be dancing the side but he tinder also. Beyond how. how all kinds feeling kazlauskas. I two things one inviting. Yvonne does fiscal verse. Tim school we'll had so cling nicholas that actually devia alarm about voters deemed for involvement a message sponsored. The among gets modern negotiation would disturb city or tom and done often. Alejandra does to prevent on which are in years gone not answer. Truly shins instance by tim anderson to our own. No to ask me. I'd say i'm india. Phobic question Stock woodstove onto heighten hundred. Africans is on us and dust access towards zone. Visit artist is not to listeners. Toil east easiest on. Martha does bested. The me is an tidende bostock's to its musical actor towards zone badu. Does the at mergers of also steiner lager would have alleged or assume again anthem bleak finkel of dizzy to and become well. It is poorly in tucson phinda Gets and listen. Tom phenomenon mentioned my an anomaly. Wrinkle to become a front. Exxon does reach us as liquid village. Nissan does guns for sheila sheik silent. These outside i feel harsh excited by. She was familiar and house finished. And let's say more often comes for me at chef. Now musica your question for big. And she didn't in relative client booed and coma version initial feeling for freestone terms equality fibers team again when he says to kind of cool as his undisclosed about consciously beenish ivar from not now yama to lusty cena. God ilitza oscar thought by the scam scams feed. I'm not voter on top of that took too many. Deputy foreign bent india's not of target eight stage. Alice abba bygones comes as student owns. Thanks to the against vow for your state now. Clinton's approval but only from an amusing zips constitution so garnish. Your mother off the arctic dosage mcglesias off power does he does best also taught students. Nativity is tusk. Carter blew his mice nominate with us. Live schefter abba shoppers. What of spa philosophy being get also gave diese extremism too soon. Tv testaments because i tune oscillating in linden two weeks. An upturn and fleshed online workshops unbeaten country observer. Music mocked me up to mind for about a marketing hub for these continued yadda mustafa anti-god sufi puppy com class. Papaya calm about schmidt. Devonian in london would understood. I club and understand. No hope lies puzzle chief financial understood more my mind blithering onison goals of israel and we formed costumes and therefore shod cheat on. Mitch is d should knutson. Qatif zein z. Noise zacklin kamata on masonic fumes good. He's been booted from fraud on anti scavenge dependence of time for them continental vita does listen to me. Feel about football about this. Hudson gigi stacked outside aslan halls. This go to on finishes not muslim hard. Ud signing egg not outfit on a decree to abortion on. Does it pulse. Hi y'all orientation missing odor is for complete. Team does a moment of coveted for start fifty numa anti-british blamed. This does cloudy with us august league. Divide jewish is. he's against emerged. League natoli Lobby is the best. I interested in the auto industry without as i've abortion the mayor. Tom is height. So hit me okla within and this is really that as opposed to an economic zips eastman crew to finance vetoed. Does this the moment. He's in traffic on fico. Hudson twin given the vietnamese movie sodden issued hinge on qatif of home finish designed by flesh jitters about gandhi. Come come on almas. Gop be cabeza team in china buddha daffy movies on hotseat toss in mine mine. Avait daga study should be understood. Spawn ships a from become unfunded dot com to mr biden to shop in debt side few new laptop on nights asking. Yeah good swazi yet. He's spasms of a here can most unpopular a name with us this week in countries news on Cloud is few foreign. Up to hit maggie missed opt-out fondaco mandate allowed us. I mustn't zika from zanga finished on fox sports fans who can visha this evening it. It's an a goes crews phanom have awesome dance. Be newman president Phenomenal vidar of now. In the mid west western to dust us modell loiter im- chaotic barrage of martin vixen in freelancing notice. Hi steve madden few off. Trigger heinsohn vita fillets tesla's their relative custody in tuscany pushed by the deloite to hit on visa to social media under cutting against had a game. Noses collect uninvite ahead is optum and movies kevin. You're absolutely only modify on four favorites. My needs to feed isn't sheds michelle and he has finished all defiant. He's all setting its vice museum in eastland on ulta animus mountain forgotten or my modern. Conde's these pleased so how does not in extremes towards zinta naturally hits anguish. Date will become better angle named about knocking nine. I can produce only given virus. See his lisin conditions on fest standing up. Oh god mitzi schlepping when fever would it's penny meeting you might see fest on the in college. My mom it kept us with the emissions doesn't money misdemeanor. Thousands so vocation to consign. The alice harm on this being. That's my team is action in deutsche landowners flares that the human as in an abandoned could become prohibits too. I am devastated by design. He couldn't you. Couldn't your is your lucky vent mine. I don i not been dating. Kundi gets their vic incorrectly vanquished the thomason in the stop finnegan a few female in utah understood. So that's mogollon reporter. That's a standing. There's a sunnyside in deutschland fill in moscow so we communcation doesn't shimoda instead of about hostage then shifts in mining cocoa poonch exemption amount of the also tons each does a few hot arbor delorto above much of into bene- to add save standing mcleish. Then we had the zoo coffee buzz. It legal say about from your days. I unleashed eight now reading firm right from the alice. Financier lasagna survey. Naturally sodas hints having louis human. Who potato you understand. I guess it's interesting pulpit side on us to kick credit in infinitely until now. How does this session. he's just. He's talking about missions change. I'd senado side from scientists. Often they evacuated village. Is this vocally. Sold for supervision tune about. It's been a it's only five. Among each each vice those uncommitted to come islam avoid us from mid zing be the owner of down some fun usb league tom about stripes as soon will scam. Bihar dolphins done bist indian. Allah is was in a half to win. Clicks kidney gives team raced is about my gosh mementos global steeler to shouldn't floozy and get come on the smiley feuded. Slobber dilaudid moon humbling woman mukhlis carton. Yes absolute it's my name. The finci understood some good optima as to abortion head to the kitten. Couldn't it does well. That's kind of what time unless it's a few sheesh eat finger he says no masire fizzing fumes could go good understood and hide and alice. Super lofton's on that side is louie. So lucienne vetoes is couture walsh for complete non off. Come no foot. Alice was it's not a pandemic owned video. Emma medium visited upon me behalf design vita fight as you consider vital to insist on a view vignettes. Is tom against my vita. Glop student masin a few. Sheesh steady gins i'd stare autonoma nor concept From their on some bash team building or doubt in my mind for ins on rentals for einstein is also our globe store. Does we as vita martin garage inequal to oppose a diesel. Mit a massive often. Vcr is the tool bohol. No wolfing manda commission ala's to grind. I it's not have any kids. Bataille buying a t shirt state been zofia sheeting behind the toxins to abortion dostoevsky under non institute again on cooking by escaped sofitel constructor this. Hvac comes out on global ken. Dusk is if lab. They could to avert missed. One for nine hundred won't leaps consciousness. Jonathan knocked-on does give it in his house on one hundred doesn't just had one hundred mongolia. That's how i get tom against boost to fill. Your niche does from start from tells a most. Even yida invented ceiling indonesia lobby she gave in sluggish on of in nominate. Will you might be mark. Foster are not a good sign. Does job for dumped. Cook does a dashed washed. It does get just inclined jazz pianist and different. Come up with listen. I won't believe these. A buncrana. Answering and above my muslim allen fringe fifteen squeaked were looked so says the new gun famous code live kids game online st shots on moose from start from musket enfranchised. Be i quote him you so for sox targets into door to to butch and argue figuring out this is open my bush about that's my diaper cooked vasco understood and buses understood since we had on. That's my that's my english with chevron in november. Somebody if he's in new lyonel inmates only meant fuss vice. Elizabeth shy vice. Somebody does in november of two gang dyslexia thus quick. October tokugawa november and continue name. Until that's my unframed. Hot was kind of belowapple's bullying my most spits if you'd see him. Almost your ex patent in agreement is amount on us. This is as complex of more than a global definitive. Muslims and non does big life. That's our cfo. Because hr is kutu onto our female as dayton cooked does scans feel a barrage. Keep the understood since vets in michigan d. P. my vied trying seat abso- bus things to kern. Gotta mention the to hold on a visit Ever visited vasant will be as i'm puttin zone falsehoods student. Katie zion violent vince. He soy of lessons code as of any each day. May i introduce johnson even sticking guns of feeling limb. Does martin i for my email. I ask the lowest remind podcast muhammad. That's if i'm mocked. Alison ledin smoke from companionship. Let's zoom com would at emerson infesting this muck and input assign does marshall dire jewish in vehicle. Annoyed shoots hussein was higgins all my town. It was close to probation and venice is. If i'm to govern against it can can speak putin tudo. Kuta guterson's offer ends abe of peon on speed of us initially hits song time. High fatah's marcus. Being when i attack disease lesson. I was undergoes tune of hindi cohen. The human awesome for heights game whatsoever about club about us as taking on st martin shift on puppy gibson targeted by knives to when i honestly home debate. She taught me just vaccine us. National beam onsite often in gutu lloyd financial soon skipping on those team flags act test. Suppose we into. Mitch is the steamer across most of us. Would to me a mind wfld here novice einiger to damage to stick debut. Votes came to finish really he. Does she feeds zog in also fingered us via the company and see if he does not martic in the in the median scientists. Who get vice a monday leaping on top of this community. Run on leaving. My mom does rifle on mitch under the hebron zeiger. Do you understand on the fifty. Plus t my stash guys who come. But he's just he's been in a discreet django combat as don't go up become accomplished and also engine knock up. Kevin mahaney negatives of mine. I had a farm industrial stained guns feeling. The heat down does mendez. Active t at tesla. Mention the. I'll talk in guns nines toward soon. Cosimo's afam industrial activity does doesn't team is does we will emit and unfailing the one in most on does mantas. The artist community guy invasion from amsterdam most medine grading candy discontinued van. Canley saga issac. It's issac it's the public arsenals on another avoid slim down. Its stock is venice. I mentioned this community. This stuff on this community. Few is a sham. They're seeing emerged. Mr ghani so in love woman's side if you must steep loser. Einstein born dot com had blown the heart of the have john marston industrial. Everyone knows armed dust nine. It's a simple blame public sedan. Tradition to end up as an assistant off. David above indus- on venus vassal. John s often called simple. Blame the finish this video and jiang ask her. Five plus keeps got dhabi aga- tight thus via v and swansea team hidden informed furnish vallas just about swim imanol inbound. Vitas will feel ancient. You can mention d. v. spin decline. Mahindra's this on very shifted unstrained dot is on the favor mood equity find describes again cone game it's why point and try them lesion e is realized muzzle on mr stunned in silenced. Skate on boozer put it side. By does it was. That's on definition. Which does does does publiz investors inside and out of the independent in my arms when he has only bonus tax by drink. Walked us the. I've seen him become so in doesn't for certain spinach component diehards annoys new stimulus. He'd mama's pasta for in tatum octa. Innocence or diminished offers. End zebulon motorycles. Timoti dot gob dot good spice and they might have in demand flocked. He wasn't gondola teammates. Garnish regulation acting marked. Why accounts but listen done. It'll another from. This isn't as zebras mon. Mine apple And i m eastern these two thousand five. The smile absalon. Tim like the gone on as can use kind stuff on belie from dozen the stalin. The minute will help deductible on alarm she cannot with hoses team stays in zebra would mr to minor as down feeders will stumped his bilan. The ifa invasion raised council. Does i fought the hope for houses. Most he's finished he's against discrimination. You qasim i attack which theus thima that still about okay does does even god often talk mustang video ad asta even on tobias it. Somebody industry to cries so that matters. Minor winner yet star. Suzanne just perfect to star vice. I'll stick with us on into finger to husna trilogy draws on matryoshkas. Oh schrimm vaas. Me-right mr al-fayed each vision is does cosimo's kind of hog is fun and a hack who hold fab. Anger tried on on skipped endorsed. Can also this most fun. Guten will be fun game onto onto him as it's getting home. Roscosmos ended niche nine hundred. I'd assume by and that. Hasn't seamless team at be finished by two thousand four sendoff on about the new modestly among kind of mission management lehman cock-up might not to finish on my wasn't from abba mice than style valley's google fumes dole. For hobbled i've been without a niche. I was all hook mess. High soda spots hub. As a niche of zips mentioning comey's means on scene been disconnected by flesh On how to village climate your own cacao about finished needs to stuff your condoms duggan's via and conversely saga with him scanner for. Just stand up a vm. Yet numb you're buoyant. Miss howdy australian sliders from vic on a student. I've honey does this move. I this ohio that's form on this eastern is coming from west kennel d. I thought demand zone by the end assisting is initially be done we need about. He's does this shove. Negative is take ryan convince. Viseu often vowed advisement conga approval in ignored niche relish thing. That's an amish to find for new off to by doing Festival light does muslim. The muslim zionist undergoing keeps us his height address. Does its closure enough would suit fifty to fourteen days of leap tut. Canada's canada's does privileged as a hobby. Mondays two minutes sign indus- since he's feeling designed. Can you signed this by beefing about him. I would have to be born to squeeze perfect dodge income thompson. Phoolan sponsors d'amato abbasiya gook deutsche density is does does village it these against guns onto kissed of shoe plan also and high tides mundane islam humvee by indoor shunt lightish demon digging understood him veteran does mock funding lawton politici- won't sign owned eastern foe combat as of august nausea bundestag's. Ian wishes garnished man. Bundestag doesn't mind the position of the uncertainty of the five alabama Tie is league team understood. What's in nevada paseo. If michigan died. I'm jewish too. Darn most zola to managed. Charlie's ian none. No small sons does discriminate. Thima upstairs owned shoes. Classes most is tainted nine on so fun. Dialysis complexity was truly show insulation package on question. Colonel woman how to shoot off infers gudauta stellan host on vaas. Finish on my voice was. This was awesome. What where do dow foul knows. I'm linda diner. Diner become diner by toggle humble. Who from from from our setting and been represented butch after dot their diligence tour of the staff in mouse. Lund mid kin deutsche. Now naan as we find somebody to listen eastland moscow which leads to panama content. Seen any talent as could indochina to blink enough form does his on dodgers shy but he voted feet under partly on each helped on mutton. Songwriting workshops on twitter. Kids in deutschland for predom- local high on today. So don't you as louis. Koo and songwriting workshops of deutsche on and often omitting some is torch feels also need sixty nine cloudy or extra that suv as lebanon. And we kind of crackling stiffy not finish into tithing steal each nia on. It's all conserve knutson hazardous graffiti flesh through my mench vive. Nfl tied this priced on math. Latinas top some. Divide up into advocating steve numale and guns an hour in fact. This is dr to vote and storch vinnie aggrava- crunch on and he's been focused. I approached bundy. Had need others doja. Mozambique in eastland hose land. Italian of frank is operatives signed off schweitzer. Madonna finished mum appeared on the bill of excites. Darby would've pseudoscientific. So it's daddy. As he had some much much online is in mccreavy when cleanly for meals on davi and centime buzzfeed indian five boy from everytime deductive operated a sudden weekly. So there's some non stop. there comes on mcdonnell. Douglas added the only kind. I was estar estar. He frigo born until flag. Doesn't get my maiden rookie includes daddario irvine. Jasmine songs from your skibo done by schmidt dean at stocky mino song stories on our medina. Join some timberline show. Elephants dutch vindicate lungs on him. Assassinated dot gov answer gaynor of english cleon study on begin causing minor songs to we done. Suzano song does is super shula's this is bloomberg hedge. Minneapolis lesson when the our admit kim jong listener vicky lava fish pass by commandos shulan. Un-integrate visit humantarian unsung gannex coat. Smile speed of the burnishing psalms into these end victim in these upstream dissolves enter today the savvy as a matter of height of instagram. But as to austin duke michigan game to ns time it was two years on. Just about distinctly shula zing. That's kind of a shula of an deutsche. Was he says zoo. Puzzle found his azar with all sitting handoff own geography guinea. It a deep dish clash. State has to be industrial naturally for up on us. Each two touchdowns in the is of positive there to emerge bundling. What's your own politics dine. Oftentimes land daffron moose. Mutated does misprint viatical. Let's to my two thousand twenty the know to vendome with him all setting. I'm diagnosed done is allison schmitt but bundesliga as direct naidu fleece leaping dot by moscow beneath the floor into economic. You'll see she looked under quasi. I got in the i put on the autism baulch school in On the hudson india title clark was also meeting armed exposed on diplomatic startling. They are form. As as the also nestled tourism lender awesome to less about zion. Mean she beholds lending detail somebody who stand off askin can dilute of a harmless or lynch pun as it's an idyllic withdrew under art from mentioned revived the star tight governs least somebody these election on been off. Max needs to be eaten us. tied down. quick doesn't explode. ted's hang tight deep. Would i in ghana good iphones to quit. That sued insulation business wound when maximum point haagen pointed to the starting fucking so far being such views toward moscow answering in a feud lund. Y'all defense moscow's hush tyneside dice. Internet title nine. Festiva of homes teams often about does he leapt over fassino and most custody on is this he must really into the and dust of kudaka two invoices and beans spooky canine when you recruitment incitement non whom the others zindi. That's phone title. Stranger nicotine kindergarten game with us on december gleason hidden not the impacted billion eight hundred four fry and they're putin is strange starseed's emot- on wbz talk too. Good to miss relational was on this theater. Intermediate is putin zips wished to storage is kept amid tarnish pleasant maternal mutually gotten. Hang up on. So i get this Individual funding much interview of future. Sean mark Putin rookies in china and kuta starch. Snow no malibu does it was was awesome. Awesome to hear does whose land of the audit president showers. I mananger with proteins from which place from From mr george stay. I got this report on happier. He's been tighter kuntsler of concern that the home. That's why to kneel speed. I'm anti vm. As a quilt for 'em how much tougher deutschland in your study in for lokomotiv moscow speed and do often davos might presume relative handsome and orange and become thomas getting beaten england at kuntsler onto no parlay laden that you feel supporter so does adult us. Nissan vida gangly environment by his dot com does not off night and ancient you pump fund news online vision that him for him so not a lot stuck who fast baselga in foshan pay. Does our own go. Please allow komi on. That's fine yeah. Spanish pestle has two definitely connect them about only. does this version. Also he's had other speaker below. The is that your managerial deed up onto the extreme sober when alison zero. In by lloyd machine given now hussien would beat up in funding gap. Who does let's do. The verse of the list of harbor does to price on does dork and class boost. Yeah well let's see cr by he needs land and been talked up highs fillet on muslim when zealand zayn might not banned the finale to be in the swizzle of landed and had he from inside one hundred love me also three dollars in out of the huchon among scott peck argument. Up code lose dangle. Many song instant after perform but if we expect von von hoffman von does does it's only costa to lebed's folks price about what he had to come up. Kazakh voter is chartered by their for life. Buki shorts just pop quiz space time. It comes from festival spin. it's islanders. Shut co-funding the steve. Harvey is high to come on and under. So he hits a home yemen outing von yvonne. Cutoff eight von you as gift on partied ourselves. Kamata tonight isn't good as a foul. A customer spirit into nine hundred mega hit squads. Khuda fallen of shipping. Dubai isn't being shot. If alleged us life price is dunkeld. So last august financial scoot. Musk couldn't colson. These almost always hung as one of these tight is does Crossfield to plan a recycled snitch. It came hats off to her. Does inferior option. Few females zeke for me game but not as positive team as well moderates fee man. Hockey title could cite fun. Leibel at all near voice is music and mr anguish. Fear but six hundred nine phone calls by antle dozen mkaku by county the plant investments of gb of fema zeki club would feel kinda sponges right side Given to and kind of club with us. We rely too. Kindly honest as taylor. Jean schmidt a titan outside number to be pervading vita and vegan. Does the moment sign on our on this being zaire kids inside on on the battlefield on on this kind of forgotten. The sunak confidence in okay does shunde often social media cananea heighten letting between swells allotted younes podcast swoon. In notes some schloss mineralised nakasone of on smart house tunes packaging chemical flush maximum conversion. Yup today i on the fan box. Not spider just gets in the here on all about i scan through. Sandbox station is somebody desmond. I don't believe that's an instrumented window is allowed handy. Greta tool to cotton posted us. This will definitely gonna by fishing lose investor and fight nama on smart Zeks giving owned given current guns influence. Market your by epa podcasts in federal. Home bro boy. Hendy direct often the onshore podcast on done off defoe leaving. dari done. Shutdowns ganor dot a client was Of swedish to confrontational amazon's. Lighten on some schloss last anne. Heche dick dr. dr and done vetting on since dozens nixon's follows him. Clip dhabi islam into two euros trash fights donkey found. There's a cool. You often straight on to midst in on team only gang based on vitamins naturally foreign truly four hundred and he does sentry his ears again of dot com say johnson donkeys choice thousand militia leash one of maximum. Kite flattens toy on verizon's next.

sean germany Dari high museum fatah jess Kokin ted kangol Fayza hampton issoire mankiewicz emma foods vitek dan max yav kanoute evans ziona don hobby kiko alonso gyasi satish stanford amazon
Athena Naalina: How to move past anxiety

Jay Anxious Podcast

52:45 min | 3 months ago

Athena Naalina: How to move past anxiety

"Back everybody welcome back. Welcome back everybody for episode forty two of the j. anxious podcast and a very special guest here with us this afternoon. Her name is nisha. Molina shah otherwise known as athena and alina on twitter nisha. Thank you very very much for being on the show today. It's an honor. I appreciate it not a problem. So the question. I've been asking my first question for everybody in the last few episodes here that i picked up was what's on your mind right now. What's going on what's going on well. I'm working today. So i'm at the allergy clinic so if you hear the phone ring Because i'm at work. And i m just happy to be talking to you Hopefully i can help somebody. With some knowledge. I picked up through the years and seven again day. Awesome so i was asking you. What's what's on your mind right now. I'm not just talking about at work or doing anything pressing. Anything he got. You know worldwide anything going on in your mind right now. Oh gosh my brain is completely full of world thoughts. So we yeah. My mind is constantly going So we have you know this whole pandemic thing. There's rioting civil unrest people. Were you know having evan estate quarantined. There's vaccines everybody's freaking out. So it's been a tough year regardless of who you are. I think if you're the strongest person in the world you probably felt some extra stress this last year so my a thoughts are people need a little mental health boost Be reminded to take care of themselves and whole help. Include your mental health as well as your physical pal. I could not agree with. You agree with that statement that you just said right there and yes one way or another. It's probably been a difficult year if it's not you know beating you down mentally about you know maybe you lost your job for no fault your own which is horrible. That's really hard on people if you know just the frustration of being under some of these cockamamie rules that they've got going on that could be very frustrating so Yes i agree so we are going to talk a little bit of 'bout mental and physical health here today so if you can Nisha can you please give some background on your education and where you're coming from on this topic yes I originally took the career path to be a lawyer. My brother and my dad at the time convince me that medical school was just not good for women they're old school from india and a little patriarchal but anyway so i thought well i can help people by going into health law so into law school. That was extremely stressful for everyone so everyone just drank to self medicate and then i got out and went to work at a law firm in nashville there for four and a half years and again the culture is just to drink to self medicate the stress away And then my brother passed away. And i decided to go change careers completely and go to a bridge program vanderbilt so to become a nurse. Practitioner family nurse practitioner board certified. I've been doing that for five years. And i learned so much about mental and physical health through that program and through my own experiences very interesting. Okay well that takes us through a lot of different questions. So what made you decide. That being aware wasn't for you anymore and that you wanted to get into the medical field. Well so i've always been a bit. Noncommittal like to keep my open. So when i was in college i was pre med and like i said i just decided not to go to medical school for various reasons so i did have some of those prerequisites though i had know anatomy and physiology biology all of those types of classes that you need And then i really. When i was in law school i really knew it wasn't for me however i'd already had invested over year in it and the person i was dating at the time kind of pressured me to stay in law and there and he was like you know people would kill for this opportunity. What are you doing you know. Just press forward so. I did and i decided when i worked at the firm. I really hated it because i felt like i didn't have a purpose except for making money so i was miserable. I was really miserable. So when i found out that there was such a thing as a nurse practitioner I thought wow this may be something. That's perfect because i won't have to go to school for eight more years to be a doctor. I won't have the pressure of being a doctor. And i didn't at that point i didn't have any ego needs to be you know climbing a ladder and it's such a better fit for me. I love helping people so the medical field is awesome to a medical field is awesome and yeah. I wondered what is nurse practitioner. Do can you explain to the audience. A little bit yes. I'm so glad you asked that. Because i didn't know what they were before they There's different types of nurse practitioners. You can be a family nurse practitioner. You can be a psych nurse practitioner. The really big need for those right now. Seriously they're hiring everywhere You can be a pediatric nurse practitioner. You can be a hospital nurse practitioner so when you take the boards you can specialize so i am a family nurse. Practitioner gives me the Ability to treat people from they call it cradle to grave so we can write prescriptions. We are focused on preventative. Care theoretically by an because being a nurse. You're sort of focused on the whole person and on community health family. Hell as well as personal health interesting interesting so basically your doctor without the title. Well i hate to. Yes but i hate to say that. Because i don't want to discredit all the work and you know specialized knowledge doctors have but yes we we can do. What primary care doctors do. We are trained to know when something is out of our wheelhouse and then we can refer to specialists interesting interesting so when it comes to anxiety. What is your experience with it. And what do you think you could do you. What do you think you could say. Or some tips and tactics to help some people with with their anxiety problems. Okay so i've kind of dealt with it. Since i was a kid I some childhood bumps as many people have. And so i just always thought it was normal to be really stressed and uptight and have stomach issues and had really bad social anxiety I guess i had low self-esteem as a kid being half indian and raised in east. Tennessee was awkward. So but it really didn't come to a head. It didn't really affect me. It didn't affect my work. it didn't affect my schoolwork. Didn't affect anything. Until i got to the law firm and there i would just constantly second guess myself i was neurotic about how many hours something was taking me to do. I was. I was just focusing on the wrong things. I was not enjoying my life as having trouble at work. So okay what. I go ahead. I'm just saying okay. I was just listening. Okay so i Found out that getting reaching out and talking to somebody is okay. That is not weird. Everybody needs to talk to somebody There's different kinds of counseling and it's all confidential and The lady i went to even had our early hours and she said she had a lot. Lot of lawyers In her practice. So i was able to go before work So that was kinda my first initiation into getting help for myself. And then yes. And so then i was able to kind of function and Do my law work. Duma legal work. And i was good at it did well But everybody drinks so much. So i was also drinking Wine or whatever beer. I had to learn light beer. Because the peer pressure is i liked jackson cokes. Unlike like other drinks. But we can't just sit at a bar and patents. Drink those with people. So i need something with alcohol content and so anyway i learned to like beer Just from the peer pressure. And but i knew that. I was not gonna live long if i stayed in that environment. I knew that i was miserable. I actually went to the funeral of a colleague. While he was he was a partner. So he was way ahead of me on the totem pole. And he had died from psoriasis. And so we all went and it just really freaked me out. It was a very unhealthy environment The people i worked with were lovely but self medicating with alcohol is not a good idea. So when i got to nursing school alor nd so much about how mental health is just as important as physical health. I couldn't agree more. It's i think it's more important. Because you're mentally having problems than your physical. Health really doesn't make a difference because you're looking at. You can look fantastic. You could have a great body but if your mental health is is gone you know the rest of it isn't worth a shit my opinion. So how what. We're back to your therapist. Therapy did you. Did you go for Cbt or what was. Just talk there. i had you on this one lady before and she wanted to analyze my dreams and that fridge me out i was like this is just weird so i found this other lady and we just talked so that was good. I've never done. Cdt a year and have read studies about it being awesome But and then at vanderbilt. I went to this counselor. That did biofeedback and that was incredibly helpful. So what that is is. They gave me a thermometer to hold on my hands and hooked a pro berra a staying up to my ear that somehow measured my heart rate and my breathing so the goal was to get synchronized and for my heart rate to lower and from a hands to warm up because when you are stressed all the blood is going to your core. Oregon's and your hands get cold and your feet get cold because they're as important at the time So i learned how to control my breathing and my thoughts so that out my physical response would come under control interesting. Let's talk more about this. Because i i frequently have cold hands and feet and i wouldn't call myself particularly stressed anymore but okay so what what would you say. How would you get your your Your heart rate in your breathing under control. What would you give some tips on that. Okay so back then. And i mean this has been like seven or eight years ago so i've learned a whole lot since then but back then there was actually a little Video it was a game. So if i got my heart rate and breathing in synchronicity. They called it then. The say a hot air balloon would lift on the screen. So i don't know if that is a common form of therapy but it was amazing and she had she had worked with. Ptsd veterans and had wonderful results with them. But so i learned how to breathe and to thank better thought so that was my first initiation into how you're thinking actually affects your body. Absolutely you're thinking one hundred percent affects your body. So how were you trained to think. Better thoughts or think more positive thoughts okay. So then She just told me to think something happy. We compared my my heart rate to win. I was thinking of things that made me angry. It was crazy. How different was so. I didn't really internalized that lesson until the like the past year. And i learned that a our brain is neuro plastic so we can change the physiology of how are neurons are actually firing and working in our brain by thinking so i learned. We have control over our thoughts. Our thoughts do not have control over us. And that was a revelation to me. Because i'd always thought you know. I just had to deal with my thoughts and if they were really negative i would just have a bad day. I didn't realize i had control of that. Okay so how do you gain control over your thoughts. This is something. I'm sure a lot of people are looking for so go ahead and explain just basics if you will are how to get started maybe on controlling your own thoughts okay. We'll the first step is to know that you can control your thoughts like if you're having a negative thought thank sort of outside yourself and think wait. That was a negative thought. I need to spend that around and have a grateful so one thing. I've learned the power of gratitude every day. Especially if you just get up and are thankful for something. It puts you in a more positive frame of mind. So if we're always thinking in a manner of lax or victimhood or Negativity that's a choice. If we choose to focus on the good things in life the things we can be grateful for it. It actually rewires the brain to to be happier and more positive very interesting so you were saying when you have a negative thought like what are you talking about as a negative thought while i always experienced just The stays bad. Oh did i did. I choose the wrong house You know am. I living in the wrong city. Is this person taking advantage of me. So there's many facets to why you might have that your thoughts you may have some unresolved issues with a relationship. You need to talk to that person about. So i mean you know there you can have negative thoughts about anything they can they can spiral to. Oh i i don't wanna be on this earth and if that's if that's you go get help to the listeners So native thoughts can be anything from. I'm annoyed. I'm having a bad day to the extreme. I want her muscle. So like i said if somebody they please go get help. Go to the emergency room but So on the less extreme basis if you choose to focus on the negatives that's what you're gonna see and that's going to grow if you choose to focus on the positive and things that are good in your life and the gratitude that attracts abundance that attracts unhappiness. It attracts wellbeing absolutely. Excuse me so. Let's talk about this. Because i'm not trying to discount what you were saying like mayang zaidi thoughts. Because i'm i'm agreeing with you quite a bit on everything here but My anxiety thoughts were a lot more extreme than Is i never even thought about that. Life for me was second by second thought thinking and analyzing the sensations and feelings in my body of all times to check to see if i was having a stroke. Heart attack brain aneurysm. Everything like that. That's what i was worried about all day every day for twenty dollars. Okay so sir. Obsessive obsessive thinking. And i've i've been there too. Pardon so let's get into obsessive thinking because i did suffer from that for for for a long time. Now that doesn't mean that those thoughts don't come and go because they do go from time to time right. They're not they're constantly. If you're distracted a little bit they'll go away but also hit you at the worst times that you can imagine. When you're every single time that i was enjoying myself even for a little bit it would just go boom. There's that shot you know so and that would ruin right. So what about obsessive thinking. How did you get that under control. so i know we talked about this but so the twitter community and be now currently current nisha Thinks that you can get most things under control with diet and exercise and thinking which i think you said you did not ohkawa and it takes a lot of exercise and it takes a lot of work. But they're still days that shitty. What i mean there really are. Yeah and i don't know if the word control is fair. maybe under not as bothersome. Maybe or maybe you know you just get used to it. Which in my opinion is one of the things that works best. You just gotta accept it from time to time and know that you're not your thoughts. They're just the thought. So when you're saying when you said before you gotta step outside of your brain say wait a minute. That is not how i feel about anything. That's how i've overcome a lot. But i just accepted it like this is how this happens from time to time. You know. nothing's gonna come of it so just let it go. Let it float off into the ether. does it comes but it goes away a lot faster now that used to it used to feel like i was having a panic attack for twenty four hours. That's how bad they were. Yeah okay yeah. And i never. But i've never taken. I've never taken a pill for anxiety. I've never taken a pill for panic. Because i knew deep down inside myself that it was just my thinking gone. Crazy are really impressive. I mean. I think that's so impressive and i know they're there couple of people. I follow on twitter grim monkey and then the guy in argentina forgot his name. They were able to overcome actual. What could be Diagnosis schizophrenia and that kind of thing through nutrition and exercise. I did not have that knowledge or the willpower that you have when i was first having that obsessive thanking neurotic thanking stress so i did go the antidepressant route. I have a theory that our world is so crazy in our media. Our brains are so inundated with too much information too much stimuli. That sometimes the way we live humans now is not the way we were meant to live. We don't walk. We don't farm. We don't have to work hard just to feed ourselves at. We have everything fairly easy and we're looking at screens all day. And i don't think that's natural. So i think the brain probably i do think that's the reason a lot of us are really really anxious and depressed. The world is. We're not meant to intake news of the whole world every day. That's just too much. But so before i learned it was possible to get through things with diet and exercise. I did personally go on an antidepressant and that was revolutionary for me now. I'm not saying. Because i know so. Many people are very against that and i. I now know that it's possible to get over it without that. But i'm not against antidepressants. Win there needed anti. I'm not anti anything. And i'm completely aware that everybody's different okay. Everybody's different so what changed for me was it was diet. Ninety nine point nine percent diet right right. you're putting into your body that are causing chemical reactions that your body doesn't like mild sensitivities always up to major sensitivities as good a lot of things incorrect. It's going to make a lot of your hormones incorrect. It's going to make a lot of your the chemical makeup in your brain. I don't. I'm not a doctor and i don't offer medical advice but all i know. Is that with a different diet that it's gonna Took to clear up anything for anyone. When i say a diet change. I'm not talking about. Hey go eat meat for week and everything's going to change for you. You may not see anything. Change for ninety to a hundred and twenty days yes and it may be minimal and in the middle of those ninety. Two hundred twenty days might be the worst experiences you've ever had. Yes but that's that's where you lose a lot of people who say this isn't working in fact it's getting worse but for me when i had the realize after the seven ten fifteen th try was that when it's peaking and when you're in the middle of a big life change and it's peaking on you that is when you're going over the other side of the hill and you have to keep going right because if you are willing to go that for you have to see it through. And that's the one thing that always has taught me a lot of things in my life was going all the way because anxiety and panic attacks and all those other. Things are just a mechanism to avoid uncomfortable pain. True you get through the pain. Yes i is. Illness of seeking comfort at all times described but for somebody who has suffered with it for twenty five years. That's what it is. Anxiety is a mental illness all times. And that's why some people get so so wrapped up in. They're just homebound and even their own home isn't comfortable for them. Yes because mostly seeking comfort so a second go through discomfort and you're going through discomfort anyway right but when you hit that base my discomfort is we're discomfort is your baseline and you live in discomfort. You really really have to have some willpower and some want to to keep going and seek more of it and that is where the best for the promised. Land lies is on the other side of that. So if you're going to if you're going to like. I said before go half way backwards is where you were were used to being. It could get worse because you lose respect for yourself. You put more negative thoughts in your head. Like i can't do this. I'm always messing this up. I'm always finishing star and it gets worse and worse and worse and worse until it bubbles into a place where i can't even imagine right but if you wish yourself over that hill you can push yourself over that hill with diet with exercise with with your thinking with writing journaling at refined breakthrough in the gratitude. Now i don't wake up in in expressed gratitude. Maybe i should start. I've heard it from a lot of very smart people who have done a lot of really great things and i've never really implemented it but i'm sure there's a lot to it right but for me. Diet was huge diet was the big thing and then breathing was another big thing Practicing breathing which. I have gotten away from a little bit but i really haven't noticed any symptoms coming back but i'm also getting a better shape so i don't know maybe my breathing's getting better on its own anyway but But back to you back. Like i was saying back to your point. I know i went in a long diatribe there but I'm not saying that pills. Don't work or that. They should be avoided or anything like that. You'll hear that out of my mouth. I'm just saying for me. And i'll tell you why addiction runs in my family. Drug addiction runs in my family. I am so when. I say that if i got on a drug that made me feel good. I'm only gonna wanna feel better. And if i feel better off one pill i'll probably feel even better off to and i might even feel better off three and then so on and so forth the next thing you know. I'm in trouble with something else. So i knew that if i if if i went that route. That's why i've never tried hardcore narcotics. Because i know that i had to become addicted to them. So that's why. yeah well. And there's there's psych meds that don't that aren't scheduled medicines though they're they're not They don't make you feel good. Like non been zoos owes so most antidepressants would not be something. Anybody would could abuse or would abuse. Because they don't they don't make you feel good. They're they're not Addictive really. I mean they can cause dependence. That's the problem is in. You have to get off of it. But they're not scheduled in the united states meaning. They're they're not prone to abuse one of the things. I you as a nurse practitioner and as just some podcast host who gone through this wise person allies person. I won't mention their name because they'd really didn't want that. But i spoke to them last week and i not. This isn't the him for years and years in and he once told me he goes. If you want to find out what works medication. Find out what the medication. The synthetics in the medication are are mimicking and one of the biggest things that i found. One of the biggest mimic irs in in anti psychotics and anti depressants is gone to route and nashville gone through. I have taken it. And i do take it and it is one of the best things i've ever done. But you need to build up y'all rinse for it's just like anything else. The first five to ten to fifteen times. You take my give you a little bit more anxiety than you're used to but once your body to accept it it really makes a difference. It will really calm you down naturally. So i am a big proponent of gonda route. I've not really said that on this podcast or but if you do research what's in oshawa route is in it just won't so i totally agree so i'm still a work in progress because i was trained in western medicine. I know you know western medicine. But the last year i'm learning more about like asha ghana is an adapted gin which is a natural stress reliever. And there's so many of those like rodeo left. And i love actual gonda and so i went to a functional medicine doctor last fall for fatigue and he put me on so what you were saying about diet earlier to a totally agree with because the western diet is just garbage. It's toxic it'll make you feel like crap and sugars addictive. It actually works in your brain like drug so cocaine it does. It does through withdrawal. Not that i was a huge sugary eater. Cut out all of that and just ate whole foods. I actually felt my brain. Like i went through this angry in crazy withdrawal period from sugar from from our food so it was ridiculous so totally agree. Nutrition is key and your friends who doesn't want to be named. I agree with them as well. The the pharmaceutical companies just had to find a way to monetize and patent things so they found what worked and made it into a drug instead of us. Being natural so have synthesized natural natural remedies. What they right right. And so i'm learning more about that last year and So and everybody's pretty depleted and magnesium. Unlike a huge magnesium proponent now magnesium l three donate an magnesium glide. Eight like me vice nate. Yeah yeah that just those. Two things can revolution it revolutionized people's lives and their sleep and whoever go ahead. Quick tip on magnesium. I don't recall top of my head. What what what it is but if you take one of the cheaper forms of magnesium that maybe you just find in a supplement off the shelf in your your grocery store as opposed to buying it and pay and doing some research on it yourself. It will definitely give bathroom problems so be careful well. I was so pissed off. When i found the the the supplement that i've been by my boyfriend and i'd been buying from walgreens had magnesium zinc and calcium magnesium it is magnesium oxide and that might be what you're talking about one of the just make you do So i was so pissed off. Because i didn't know that there's like eight forms of magnesium. Nobody told me that in school we learned about the drugs. So yeah definitely go wrong grades because you may get the runs if you get your magnesium. They're not say may you will. I certain their age. They're a lot of your natural stole softeners. In a lot of your. Your cleansing products are made with oxide. Yeah yeah you can get out and you will and you will. so yeah. Vitamin d vitamin d. Nobody gets enough up because we've been taught. The sun is all dangerous bad when it's crucial vitamin d acts like a hormone not just a vitamin Everybody's low almost everybody in western countries. We say what did you say. I suggest she's isn't me. i'm not. I'm not when vitamin d. I just got. I'm like sixty two. Dan saying that's that's brag worthy. Well i live in northeastern pennsylvania as you know but i do supplement all winter with between five and ten thousand. I use a day. Mix with k to of course and then since its since now. There's a nice little app called d. Minder i don't know if you know about d. minder will let you know based on where you live when vitamin d is available from the sun will give you the time when it starts. Becoming available from the sun ended by. That's and the time that it goes away from the sun right so about mid-march about mid-march in northeast. Pa is when the sun has some vitamin d. n. It's from maybe eleven. Am to three pm. But now we're at like like now it's like eight forty seven in the morning until four forty five in the afternoon. The sentence vitamin d and then the son has solar known which is around one o'clock in the east coast. So that is when the sun has the most vitamin d and then and then you could tell you could tell the app. How close you have on. So if you have your shirt off your at like sixty seventy percent exposed to sign if you have just short sleeves in his in it and shorts on you're like fifty percent so on and so forth and in the app how long you're outside in the sun will let you know how much vitamin d you got in your session. That's pretty yeah. So check that out outright minded. We'll one thing. I found out to different people. Metabolize it from the sun differently. So i'm all skinned so. I'm not sure i get. I think that love to bake myself in the sun which i do enjoy doing upon occasion by going to the beach and yes. That's that's my favorite way to zero. But let me just give a quick shout out here to my buddy ivor comings. If you want to know more about vitamin d in what you need. Go on youtube. Ivor cummings i m i g s d these debacle. It's called is the video okay and you will get educated on vitamin d and it doesn't matter what kind of skin you have. You just might need more time in the sun. Yeah he strongly suggests against getting some bert. Which i strongly suggesting as well but the minute you get your base tan you can go out and for as long as you want and you will not burn. Yeah yeah. I think the problem is when people were in tanning beds and getting burned and blistered. And i mean that's not good that's third degree. Burn second degree burns very. You don't wanna do that right right. So i'm just kinda joking about begging my son but Kinda not But yeah never to. Mcdonald's me also don't worry about it that's true. Oh my gosh. All the toxic food is terrible So yes diet is important. Vitamin d epic magnesium not that walgreens cheap poopie kinds all. Those things are amazing and adapt. Degen's like you said Did you say rodeo now. You said ashley gonda entrepreneur. Yeah i like. I never had or heard of rodeo but i will look into it. I'll be vitamin complex. Support your nervous system. That really helped absolutely take your b- vitamin complex and don't worry about when you're pissing neon colors okay when it gets all orange. That's that makes me happy. I'm like yeah maybe vitamins. And the niacin flush That's kind of fun to yeah. I don't. I haven't really experienced that. Because i do tend to stay one nice and due to my cortisol levels being raised for so long so my body really takes the niacin in when it comes through but Yeah i don't deal with niacin flush. i'm also naturally read to begin with. I don't know why my my father is. Most of my men in my family are. I don't know why but we are serbs. I was like oh man. You got a lot of sun. Maybe i did. My skin's also just pretty read on a regular basis. But i don't know why it's not dry. It's not any that it's not. I've been through test out the wazoo because it's kind of embarrassing from time to time but it just is what it is. A lot of the doctors told me distrust. How you react to whatever's going on so. I'm not really all that concerned. You just have a nice colorful complexion. Thank you yeah nato but were react there. Yeah be the beep. Vitamin complex is extremely important. It will also help you out if you have Oh why is my brain. Not working right now. An issue with like vertigo or issue with You are out my god. This is terrible sonam. No in that is that. I had that too ads. Terrible neuralgia neuropathy. No i'm just talking about your. Oh my god since balance. What does that cogs now your ears. Burt starts in god. I'm not of any hope starts with an m. Mom you're not my. I'm having complete mental breakdown right now. let's okay so balance it helps with your mouth like the word. Metabolism keeps coming in my head but similar metabolism. God there's probably listeners screaming out the answer in mccain here probably are there probably are Oh my goodness forget it. I'm gonna this is going to drive. I will i will. i will mess with. What about the word yes. Yeah it's kind of like your centering when you like if you move your head too quick and you get a little dizzy but it will help that use. That used to having me all the time. I used to have a problem with that all the time. It's like your balance your sense of balance like you're not dizzy. It just seems like your blank word is off and fucking think about it and it's driving me nuts i. I'm not doing a very good job of filling in your blank either so our brains are probably on the same island today party but yes. B twelve will help your sense of balance a little bit. Also if you're taking drugs if you're pre diabetic or diabetic like metformin you must take b twelve met former ranger body of it and will make you energy your energy be a little bit low. So make sure you're getting your be twelve if you are in that scenario because if you need help with the diet you're more than likely not in the best health that is true and if you drink too much you're gonna be drained of b. vitamins. It drains all your vitamins so definitely take a be supplement. So that's interesting. Let's get into the alcoholism really quickly. What what now. Alcohol is the most difficult drug one of the most difficult drugs to come off of if you are indeed addicted to it or indeed Now here we're goes my brain again. I m still thinking of that word anyway. Yeah when you're depending when you're dependent on alcohol that withdrawal symptoms could be fatal you really condi- you can exactly and it's the burger. That happens quite a bit in fact. That's how amy winehouse died. Amy winehouse died from alcohol withdrawal. Oh did you. Yeah so the way it was explained to me is that when you're alcohol dependent the alcohol depresses the neurons in your brain. So much so that they don't fire particularly well but they keep needing the alcohol because the the withdrawal from the alcohol so pad. So if you quit if you're dependent on alcohol and you quit alcohol like cold turkey. What will happen is those as those. The alcohol subsists out of your system. Those neurons will fire back on in cause seizures and different ideas delirium trimmings. Yeah so i mean if people are hard core drinking every day and wanted detox. They need to do that in a supervised setting like a medically supervised sitting. Yeah with signal. Die with pills and everything else to write. There's pillows that yes act as alcohol so your brain doesn't think that you're stopping immediately and takes. It's a process like getting off of any other kind of drug it is. It is so Medical supervision is is needed for those situations You know and there's a lot of people who aren't to that point they drink and they're what. I call functional alcoholics. And they do their job but they're drinking too much so theirself medi. I have a family member who is just that way. They work seven in the morning till three in the afternoon. End by six o'clock at night there puddle in sleeping like every day. Yeah that's common. They're so good at their job. It's unbelievable i'm like. I don't know how he wakes up in the morning and is functional but i know that men. I've known that man for twenty five to thirty years. And i know for certain that his blood alcohol level is always over the legal limit at anytime of the day. There's no way that it's not right. There're people who can function and so they. They may not label themselves as alcoholics but they definitely have a substance use disorder. And they're drinking too much so The definition of alcoholism has kind of expanded to include. Those people really unhealthy. I mean your livers getting shots. You're you're a sauces getting worn down You're more likely to have cancer. This is bad. Let alone your poor family. Who's at home wanting attention and you're all drunk. You know unhealthy me. There's no about and to be honest with you. i find it. I find it interesting. That drugs like alcohol or not only legal but celebrated and drugs like marijuana and drugs. You'll find like mushrooms in all that are illegal which probably could help some people who were in our situation or in our situation. Currently because i do know that mushrooms do help quite a bit with panic attacks in anxiety. Yeah just learned about microdosing last year. I've i've not experienced it but it sounds awesome and it is crazy. How our culture is so alcohol. Syndrich i mean it was one of the only things open less true. Everything was shut down. You're still well. I mean if you stop that they would have. They would have lost by that. They knew that keeping that open was key to keeping people under locks believe it or not true. Because if you would've taken that away you would have seen you would have seen people fight back quicker. Believe it or not if you took away all alcohol immediately very very true. They kept sedated and and happy or not happy but just sedated. Yes dated so another. We're coming up on the end of the show here Nisha is there anything that you'd like to get out there or add before we call it a day Just if you're experiencing anxiety or stress. There's hope you're not alone. There are many options to help as far as supplemental nutrition counseling. So just just now. There's things you can do and you don't have to suffer and reach out. People people are there that can that want to help you absolutely i. I second that look one of the main reasons why anxiety get so bad with a lotta people is because they hold it in. Don't tell people what's going. On with them kerr setting you and letting other people know what you're going through is not pleasant is one of the biggest steps that you'll have because if when you explain to people that i've been dealing with this for year and you've been around me all this time you've had no idea doesn't make me any different than what i am when i tell you that i'm going through this right. And is somebody who isn't dealing with anxiety but as is is given the very trusting knowledge that somebody is struggling with this please for the love of god for the last fucking thing you want to say to them is just get over it because that is not the answer that is networks that you could say to these people worse than you could say to them because believe me. They're trying to get over it more. Would like to get over it okay. Now that he wants to that way no and if you if you haven't dealt with a real live panic attack yourself. Please don't give anybody any x any ideas on what it feels like and that goes for doctors to like. That's the worst. If you've never experienced panic attack please give any advice on how to get over it. You have no fucking clue. That's all. I mean so But at the same time. I love what you said. You're not alone. Anxiety is experienced. By over a i think the term is the to the tune of about a billion people on the planet Suffer from anxiety now. And i agree with what you said much earlier on the podcast that it is a it is something brought on by how easy our lives are and we make them harder by trying to keep up with the joneses or trying to get that bigger promotion or why. Don't i have more money. Or why am i not doing this. The number one thing to getting inside the under control is figured out who really are. That's the big thing that taking taking yourself out of your comfort zone because anxiety is a disease of comfort seeking comfort all the time. Get out of that comfort zone. Put yourself in difficult places get out in nature take a walk. Get your diet or Under control and go from there and you'll see vast differences. I totally second. That totally agree. Wow great so nisha. Can you tell everybody where they could find you on social media if they want to touch with the and maybe you could point them in the right direction if they're if they're struggling with something absolutely. Dm me at n now. Lena epstein dot com molina's middle name. And i'm on twitter and i will get your dm's and see if see if i can point you in the right direction. Okay thank you very much for that. I don't know what my microphone wasn't working there. Okay i was talking. I was talking to my little green dots over here. That tell me that i'm talking. And then it's being recorded wasn't going up so i was wondering what's going. It caught over five nine rain more reasons to know. thank you. Thank you so very much for being on the show today. Really appreciate your time Your expertise is much needed and please people if you need any help i know. She's there. we talk sometimes so she's definitely a helpful resource and i'm sure she'll do anything she can help you absolutely all right. Thank everybody for listening today and remember as always listen. Learn check back next time appreciate. Y'all have a great day bye bye.

nisha Molina shah evan estate twitter mayang zaidi Heart attack brain aneurysm ohkawa Nisha Diagnosis schizophrenia alina nashville athena gonda vanderbilt psoriasis Tennessee
The Pathetic Chuck Todd

Part of the Problem

1:09:47 hr | 1 year ago

The Pathetic Chuck Todd

"We need to roll back the state we go on all of our own citizens are prisoners flooded with non violent drug offenders. If you WANNA know who America's next enemy is look at me everybody welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem I am David Smith he I got my fight pick right for the middleweight title fight Israel Outta Sonya undisputed middleweight champion. I'm back baby this is the double everything kind of worked at so we still get you guys episode and I can make it over the Soho Forum to do my my opening set there won't be debating this time I it was Lena Epstein is debating what's his name Richard Wolf on socialism verse capital is a debate I love tonight's debate is the Fire Robbie the king of the Cox Bernstein what's going on how are you sir I'm good man good to be here in studio B A little bit early other option but to stand with this guy and try to knock him out and I just don't think you're gonNA that's a very effective way to fight Israel out of Sonya who's probably the most decker a couple of things That I thought would be fun to talk about on the show today big the first piece of news big news the biggest news sweeping the nation right now as pointed every drug through the debate and like heroin this was not that bad so you guys are GonNa Demonized Crack I've been on crack this entire debate or am I making good points are you or humping the wall all right you know what this is the first time I've ever done crack didn't work out that well but I think I've proved my point still here okay so there's because I I wasn't even sure they were going to continue doing so forms dominant performance last month so big on coming up with what's the name the war crazy whitaker is going to go in there better mixed martial artists Blah Blah Blah called that called it perfectly and I called it for exactly the reason because I knew whitaker would have no than usual so today I I if you guys listed this John You haven't picked up on this I'm borderline retarded but so I forgot so we we are we were able to make it work route pushed around his second lunch luckily I think be ym is out of town so the studio was one this is the one that broke the curse biggest fight middleweight championship Australia versus New Zealand I was telling people Israel out of Sonya was GonNa win this fight and a lot of people were like your that I had the Soho form tonight and then rob texted me a few hours ago and was like hey so what are we doing with the podcast I mean you've got the Soho form tonight and I was like good every shot and coming up with next to nothing and and I thought it was just moving around he was relaxed us it was really interesting difference in like and I think it's something bitcoin shrugs it's a the legalization of drugs debate resolution but go to these four be great if the debater just a person rated striker in the AFC right dirty you gotta you gotta be pushing that up against the fans we didn't he tried to leap in and out and throw it S. Jn so we scrambled and got in earlier or in Studio B Thanks everybody for all moving up last night I had to push off my second launch to a little bit later he was dancing in the ring and anyway so the point is I'm back to being excellent at picking MMA fights big news in the country the second haymakers making a miss everything I mean like I I thought people when I'm doing some shots a couple shots and he proved got a chip that Kelton gasoline fight coming gasoline it's fucking truck and he takes shots from him for four rounds and came back and fucked them up in the V but a lot of people were like oh whitaker was winning that fight until he clipped him at the end of the first time I thought I thought out of Sonya was a great game plan there was no way whitaker was going to be able to keep that up for five rounds he was throwing everything into look man I gotta say I've actually really been enjoying this whole process and watching the media coverage of it so the big story that's broken since last time we were on the podcast is that a Monday since Friday what happened over the weekend is that it looks like a second whistle blower the pace and intensity was like even the way they came down to the Ring Whitaker came Garner's pump in his trust and he's like Ara and breakdowns in his way down maybe hate him though after noon but it's okay dinner yeah I inner instead of a second lunch hit the ACC brother hottest bowls in here anyway the coverage of this is that because there's no I mean look you can say good question a lot to find out here Now I one of the things that I think has been really interesting about Ori the story that's not quite as big looks like the impeachments moving forward of Donald Trump also a story that people around the country talking about it's a so strategy is like the same it reminds me of the Cavanaugh thing we'd be like I it's like well here's one completely unsubstantiated allegation but now we have to unsee it was a quid pro quo you can say it was an abuse of power or whatever you want to but there's just nothing in the transcript even in the text messages that I don't know what he's had but this is there like throw one more thing there and now let's do this guy strategize with shift I also well we don't know yeah I to agents coming we don't know the second guys CIA all we know is that the lawyer representing the first whistle blower says there's a second whistle blower we don't know who he is works Horton Bill Kristol but that's not till next May time before that I thought that was well that ACC well they really early but the big one that is coming up is our is coming forward this is the like it's so funny you CIA suggests this is like the the media's like death by a thousand cuts from from from like they're putting forward right is that Donald Trump said in conversation with the Ukrainians that he'd like to intiated allegations and then you got to but it does have a weird psychological effect on people where they go oh well now there's smoke there must be fire I mean there's a be like Oh my God this is you know like a such a scandal at the best case scenario the best case scenario the accusation that they've got it was not just lose the Goddamn nightmare but in terms of just breaking down the fight even as they were fighting whitaker just loading up with everything and not just cool and comedy it's almost there's a national emergency especially when you've been saying the guys up a puppet of Vladimir Putin you've been saying it's literally Hitler all these terrible things he's going to do the you see them look into the Joe Biden Hunter Biden thing that's off the transcript that's the big thing that you've got oh my God what an a bit like how you try to me which he then relinquished the foreign aid to them that's what they've got that's the story that he temporarily held closes out there saying like I really didn't want to impeach the constitutional duty I have I have to impeach we have to go through this horrible process because Donald Trump it was communicated by people around Donald Trump that he was withholding military aid in less they tried to get to the bottom of the origins of the Muller investigation I just hard to really sell that is like Oh my God and then according to the text messages and this is the official story of what's impeachable why we have no choice answer I heard on Joe Biden not that you know it's looking backward it has nothing to do with interfering in an election going forward it has to do with who interfered in the last election so there's old off on military aid because he wanted to look by the way not that he wanted to them even by the text messages not that digging up had any normal person you would look at that and be like Oh my God what a scandal is a hard sell it's a hard sell so in order to sell it the media even that I mean look maybe you can find some constitutional scholar who will say this is not following a certain protocol or something but the so that wasn't as this you got a really sell and the person who has been the most entertaining to watch on this this week has been chuck todd at Chuck Todd is the moderator they call him of meet the press although not such a moderator recently but he's a guy you know chuck todd was like the numbers guy ridiculous watching him a watching his reaction to this whole thing so the first clip I wanNA play a clip of Chuck Todd Yeah at MSNBC years ago and ended up like really going and becoming one of the big players on the network and it's just been I don't know hilarious and is a conspiring with hostile foreign power to change the election now that's a real oh God there's there there wasn't that declaim there's something to he has a he hosts meet the press every Sunday and then he has a show meet the press daily that he hosts every day on MSNBC so the first one is from his MSNBC show and this was chuck todd held up some military aid and some people around more like hey you may not get this aid unless you look into the origins of the trump Russia investigation which he then ended up giving them anyway doesn't basic rules of our democracy are under attack from the president all right let's begin tonight the basic rules of our democracy are under attack by the really look like they got to the bottom of anything but that's that's the actual story here's Chuck Todd describing those beard me neither it's too perfect you know discussing what I just told you this is not me adding anything this is factually what's going on here. Donald Trump mentioned on the phones that Ukrainian president that he'd like to see him look into Joe Biden and then it looks like he has to really sell it because there's nothing there's really no there there there's nothing to look at and go oh my God now if you're selling donald trump foreign governments to do investigations I mean okay I mean obviously on us the fundamental rules of democracy are being undermined by the president what exactly tip back to the beginning of this I wanna get make sure you get this wording exactly correct basic rules of our democracy are under attack from the president we begin tonight with a series of admissions by the president that all but assures his impeachment and the House of represented all right so let's see let's go back to the video welcome to Thursday it's meet the press daily good evening I'm Chuck Todd here in Washington I don't say this lightly but let's be frank and national nightmare is upon us the interesting day it's meet the press daily good evening I'm Chuck Todd here in Washington I don't say this lightly but let's be frank and national nightmares upon us into the Ukrainian president saying hey I'd really like to look into this this corruption with Joe Biden his kid that's a national nightmare of fundamental tack on the most Basic President I don't say this lightly but it's a national nightmare well actually chuck todd I I think you are saying it kind of lightly God dammit I hate that fucking term so much I tweeted this recently but I think that I've never heard the term what aboutism used when it wasn't responding to an excellent point has to say this is a national nightmare might be a little bit of an overstate trump took the military into Washington he killed off all the senators and told Congress that if they don't succeed now you really done it this is a super-duper national with no of course the fundamental rules of democracy would be what that people have a right to one of the problems with this which you know you get you get accused of like what aboutism or something like that which is Teredo what normal human being could take what I just told you which is not my opinion on it this is what's going on and say a national nightmare is all investigating done by foreigners and yet that was fine the only thing we wanted to worry about then was can we get to the bottom of this is there collusion between fundamental attack on the most basic rules of democracy to ask foreigners to investigate something will okay but when exactly did we start vote that our leaders are democratically elected I mean th th the idea that the fundamental rules of democracy are that you're not allowed to ask authorities immediately they were going to die as well and he finally did become the Hitler that they warned about the national night right to say Lake so what this is the thing that you almost wonder and that's I mean you're spot on with like the point you're getting at which is like so what would you describe that as since you're already using this language for official US postage twenty four seven for any letter any package any class of male anywhere you want to send it wants your mail is ready just handed to your mail carrier or drop it in a mailbox who is a British intelligence agent who says he had a he he put together the claim was that it was high level Kremlin officials who gave him all this dirt on Donald Trump's cares about looking into whether Joe Biden was actually corrupt no one cares about looking into the origins of the trump Russia investigation to begin with it's just no you're not allowed to do that foreign governments influencing America like if you really care about that well isn't the Joe Biden it's that simple with stamps dot com you also get five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percents off priority mail not to mention it's a fraction of the cost of those expense dot com look no one really has time to go to the post office we know you're busy who's got time for all the traffic parking lugging all your mail and packages than getting back in your car sitting in that somebody couldn't answer and that's just what aboutism it's like well yeah I'm putting things in historical context I'm pointing out if my point is that's right if it's a national nightmare and it's a traffic going back to the office it's a real hassle that's why you need stamps. Dot Com is one of the most popular time saving tools for small businesses stamps dot com eliminates trips to the post office rules of democracy what would you call it for president like suspended elections and was like I'm I'm serving out indefinitely like what you just be saying that standard because the big story for the last three years was trump Russia collusion and all of it was started off this Christopher Steele Guy who put together this dossier postage meters stamps dot com no brainer saving you time and money it's no wonder over seven hundred thousand small businesses are already using stamps dot com and right now the listeners get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long term commitment just go to stamps dot COM click on the microphone at the top of the homes my accusation isn't actually that it was illegal what they did I think it's legal the is more or less might take I don't know I'm not a lawyer I'm not an expert in Ukraine trump in the Russians that was the only thing we wanted to worry about yet when trump does it openly not not in a secret process is he saying openly hey I want you guys to look into this no one Joe Biden and they were being investigated in Ukraine before that that prosecutor got fired but I don't even really think at least from my my that's a national nightmare so just curious when when exactly these rules written I guys let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is stamped his and saves you money with discounts that you can't get at the post office stamps dot com brings all the services of the US post office right to your computer whether you're a small office they are is to try to gain influence over the vice president so if you are so concerned about foreign governments interfering or influence and Laura international law or constitutional I don't know but I don't actually think there's anything illegal about saying hey we're going to hire the vice sending invoices and online seller shipping out products or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day stamps dot com can handle it all with ease simply use your computer to pre foundation took like ten million dollars from the Saudis and then by the way is soon as Hillary Clinton wasn't president the whole foundation dried out it's actually Ukraine was the biggest awesome in Sun and give them six hundred thousand dollars a year to be on our board I don't think there's anything illegal about that but everybody knows the reason the guys far far far far less egregious violation of the same principle because nobody is actually thinking here at least there's on this but I believe the donations came in when she was at the State Department after Obama approve the massive foreign aid to them so it seems to be very highly tied in that the thing in example of that I mean come on dude whether or not we'll say all day long on MSNBC It'd be like there is no evidence of any illegal activity by Hunter Biden as soon as she wasn't president which shows all the sudden these people who were so into charity just don't really care about charity anymore it's like well no they were trying to influence power and she doesn't have so you'd be outraged by all these things but for these people who don't care at all and actually just mock you if you care about all these things to pretend this is some national emergency when this is a actually we gave money to them for them to hand back to Clinton now I still don't think technically speaking there's anything illegal about that it looks like the laws are written in a way incurs Biden was the front runner against them I'm sure I'm sure that's true it's still a they're a much less I mean if you think when Hillary Clinton was secretary of state very influential figure in the accusation that's actually like oh the Ukrainians were influencing policy exim policy why of Donald Trump they're just saying donald trump wanted to dig up power anymore so there was no there's nothing to influence there so I'm just saying if your concern was that the foreign influence of our system that down the guy is fucking ballsy he just came out and said at a press conference and he goes I think Ukraine should look into Joe Biden I think China should look into Obama administration and they're actually fighting wars on behalf of the Saudi Arabians getting involved in military conflicts on behalf of the Ukrainians and then government should investigate this what's wrong with that like what exactly is the problem now you can make connections say well he would benefit from that what happened in the Russia collusion and what happened with Joe Biden and his son that's all know sure is there something to donald trump partly want information on the Biden corrupt age type in problem and you get that awesome deal that stamps dot com and the Promo Code is problem all right let's get back into the show and the other thing is that if we're if you're talking about and saying our system it seems like you go well this is obvious what they're trying to do right there here's another example Okay Hillary Clinton's fucking foundation the Clinton National Nightmare is upon us by the way one of the best things that happened over the last week was donald trump in real trumpian fashion which I gotta Say Foundation is taking all of this money by any sane human standard that is a far more agreed violation of allowing foreign influence the biggest donator to the Clinton Foundation yeah ten billion Saudi Arabia's a little bit underneath and what's really wild about the Ukraine one was that I you guys fat check me Brokaw of any any of that stuff so yeah it's just a little bit it's a little rich too you're chuck todd put on his his serious I'm about to cry voice and go were you basically can get around the system and you could you couldn't give money directly to Hillary Clinton you couldn't get money directly their campaign but you certainly can give charity and by the way the point that all of this money dried up how how exactly do we do we define wear that starts and we are that ends so in other words if donald trump were to electability there's something interesting here that if you're trying to expose legitimate corruption if you're trying to expose corruption that actually happened that people then when she was like well this came from a foreign power while they're still your emails while Ryan you still fucked up it doesn't change the fact that something would help you in an election it's like well give a bunch of money to a charity you could say well that's going to help you in your next election because people will look at you as a really great guy for giving all this money to charity option why would anyone in the voting public Orrin government go hey that shouldn't be a part of the political process and here's the difference between that can go both ways join and say hey that shouldn't be a part of the election process in other words if you're fabricating corruption there was no corruption and now you're trying to you know I I don't know hack into some influencing in election I mean you know like you you could just literally say that like I don't know like that that dumb video of Beta award doing push ups that he put up online you like this is trying to make you look better so you get more votes everything politicians do is trying to is it actually a crime I mean the answer is not being a crime but is there actually anything wrong with the president or anyone else saying hey I think this is are Democrats or anything like that so it's like let's just say hypothetically that they had figured out that trump was actually working with Putin we would have been the first exposing Hillary Clinton's corruption or or Christopher Steele Exposing Donald Trump's corruption I don't care who expose it if it's real and there's real crimes in real corruption wants to be like Oh this guy's fucking corrupt shit like you should go down for that I wouldn't be like you used a foreign government to find out it's like I don't give a shit I don't care if it's wikileaks computer make it seem like they got a payment that they never did that you can then present so that's illegal you can't that's of course but I'm saying if you're taking measures to expose legitimate them being investigated it's like okay possibly but half they weren't corrupt and there would be nothing firm to investigate all right it doesn't change like it was the same exact thing with Hillary Clinton what's beautiful about being not on either one of these teams not be we're like we're not like a Maga- podcast and we're not a fucking we're certainly not lefties I am not a hunter Biden I think China should look into him too so he's just like yeah I'm out in public call on them to investigate this guy but then you have to stop and go like what funding right now obviously no one of these problems are government being way to work WanNa know and particularly if you believe in democracy which is Chuck Todd's whole point here you know there's a national nightmare because democracies undermined well what good is democracy it's expose it it should it should win for us yes but that's any journalist should agree with that for sure but just as fucking person I agree with that like yeah that's certainly interfere that's interfering in the election with the express goal of interfering in the election by this definition right I'm GonNa go visit Pennsylvania because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with with Ukraine so I would say that explain to me how you don't want voters to have more information voters having more information is interfering in the election I mean okay but by that logic right by that logic the thing that stands out to me the most of what Chuck Todd said that I just find to be so outrageously disingenuous and just like that he goes donald trump term nationalist seems a little bit nationalistic to be like we can do anything but if a foreign government does it it's evil but would you call that if you said Donald all right let's keep playing from Chuck Todd I hope he doesn't cry with a series of admissions by the president that all but assures his impeachment and the House of Representatives it's a moment around having more information and using that information to make their decision I thought that's the idea of democracy look I'm a guy who doesn't believe in democracy but clearly you do so guess if they were to uncover crimes that Joe Biden committed it might have an effect on the election outcome but again like we said they'd be doing us a favor truth for Republicans and they've been largely silent on what we've seen from the president today he publicly called on to foreign governments to interfere in the presidential election by investigating his chief twenty they were honest about it sort of major investigation into the vice severi simple answer they should investigate the by because presidents Alinsky if it were me I would recommend that they start an investigation into the violence because nobody has any doubts invited foreign governments to interfere in the twenty twenty election like they keep using this interfere in the election I mean I and tell them what I'm GonNa do for them so more of them vote for me when I entered into foreign countries our country by the way for a whole press corps who so adverse to the the word vagina just take the I did you see SNL did a funny joke that why is he doing every press conference while there's a helicopter in the background I if you're issue is interfering in the election after what Hillary Clinton did what Barack Obama did to Donald Trump that is a company that's duly formed and all these companies if you look at by the wake likewise China should start an investigation into the this looks fishy we'd better have ourselves and investigation that would be one nate love investigations well that's right well they they do when they're going in the right direction evidently by saying that sounds like he's calling on them to hack into voter you know like machines and change the balance it's the same way Mueller in Mueller's investigation I bet they weren't crooked crooked deal one hundred percents all right so which I it's like he couldn't pronounce the word China and someone's like by the lettering of the word I I guess you could describe it that way you know but it sounds like the the the image that's the invoked by interfered with our ability to have a duly elected official govern well how about that I mean right so if you get out of this nationalistic mindset of Chuck Todd and you talk about influence temper had a campaign rally in Pennsylvania this week to interfere in the twenty twenty election when she goes what do you mean interfere and persuade people I know and then again of Adam Schiff the head of the House Intelligence Committee Nancy Pelosi the speaker of the House as well as several other prominent Democrats say that they had seen evidence of a conspiracy it's like proposing a tax policy is interfering in the election right because that might influence people to vote for you is anything that might influence somebody to vote for you Chrissy with Donald Trump and the Russians heading they just let that sit muller's investigating Muller now I know we've pointed this out before but this this is worth the NSA and the CIA and the FBI did the Donald Trump and your silent through all of that but now all of a sudden this is interfering in an election process. I mean come on this is I I don't even know how to deal with this but then again it's not like they they're not idiots they're actually kind of and that's what untuckit has done their shirts were specifically designed to be worn untucked untucked is the brand you've been looking for is the original untucked shirt a modern solution to an old nothing that's what it is and we were absolutely right about that but if Moller's willing to do that he's willing to come out and say hey hey that's not true we don't have pointing out again muller when Buzzfeed came out a couple of months before the Muller investigation finished and they said that they had it that Donald Trump had instructed problem with no tucking or tailoring required no matter your size or shape their shirts are the perfect untucked length if you've been frustrated with shirt buying in the past you gotta go when you see me on Cable News appearances I wear their shirts all the time I've been wearing them for years if you've ever wondered why traditional button up shirts look so long and baggy is because they were never meant to that's that's interfering election I understand it's not using a foreign government but you're just using within our own country would you call that interfering in the election how about campaigning worn untucked but I like a lot of you guys don't really like talking in my shirts so what you need is a shirt that's actually designed to be untucked so it fits right it's the right length there was nothing to be gained from this except people's expectations being you know what I mean and we said right here on the show when it happened we go this is muller trying to control expectations because he's got either he was lying or someone showed him fake evidence now if someone showed you fake evidence I would think you would reveal that source right you don't need to protect that source anymore you go this guy checkout untucked it's super easy to shop for them I'm a person who does not like shopping and that's part of the reason why untuckit is so great for me they have more than fifty fit combinations so you can find the shirt that looks great for you with your tolstoy short slim athletic any age any size they're going to have a shirt that fits you perfectly you can order the shirts me lie and maybe look like an asshole and if you were lying you'd think is user saying he'd be fired a second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is untuckit I love untouched brilliant because there's something brilliant about saying you know if you were say once again Donald Trump calls on foreign governments to investigate whether there was criminal activity you use the Promo Code Problem at checkout you get twenty percent off your first order that's untuckit dot Com Promo Code problem all right let's get back in the show anyway saying I've seen the evidence indictments are coming down from Muller why wouldn't mother come out and go hey hey guys because obviously muller had no evidence of a conspiracy at that time one to lie to Congress there you go there's the crime that was committed mother had his people come out and say this story is inaccurate because it was about to wrap up this was after the mid term interfering in an election interfere with the election interfered wants the guy was elected well you had both you had a well I'm talking about the mid-term election oh yeah you had a online or you can check out their brick and mortar stores they have fifty stores go to Untuckit Dot Com get started they even offer free shipping and returns on all orders in the US conspiracy theory or two by the way this is not here say this is not a leak this is not a whistleblower complaint it's not a memorandum of a phone conversation the conspiracy I mean our last episode we pretty much went through prosecuting the case of the deep state conspiracy against Donald Trump. I've also talked a lot about how sitting out there while you go have a close mid term election I mean that's by by this standard again a far more agreed violation of the same principle that you're talking about here conspiracy and what's Chuck Chuck Todd Response to that debunked conspiracies debunked your spiracy out of my own head. I'm playing the words of Chuck Chuck Todd of Chuck Schumer of John Brennan of Phil Mudd of Rod Rosenstein the evidence he had seen what happened there there's two options some someone showed you fake evidence or you were lying through your teeth you must have a job anymore I saw he must be out of the whole deal okay let's play a little bit more from the clip is a public admission of the allegations of the heart of the houses impeachment inquiry and at the have that so don't buy the story by the way still haven't heard from that buzzfeed that the remember the the report who came on CNN and swore up and down that he had seen the whistle blowers complaint that the President United States Donald J trump is using the power of his office to solicit foreign interference and the two thousand twenty election while doing it relying on debunked office obviously it was an attempt to gain influence by hiring Joe Biden's son at this company and think about how much time is spent going through the whole here's the theory is debunked I love just just three words debunked conspiracy theory there you go well I guess that cancels everything I've been saying for the last year because he said three NBC News is top objective news story we're we're journalists here and this is just so outrageous interest debunked conspiracy theories all story could win a debate against somebody arguing that the deep state was working against Donald Trump. It's literally can't be done it's an it was so obvious from the words like Hey Chuck Todd do you care point me to wear this has been debunked like on the last episode I'm playing I'm not making infuriating about guys like Chuck Todd it's one thing if you go like hey here's this progressive woman who has an opinion talk show but chuck todd is the moderator of meet the press that is he just keeps taking these things like they're yelling thinks it's more presidential sounding are so stupid it's really a talk about so so my partners with that he was willing to come out and say that story was bullshit but going into a midterm election you have the head of the House Intelligence Committee it perfectly you send it right back you get the one that does that you it's a very easy process and you can save twenty percent on your first order by using my Promo code which is problem it buzzfeed and there's no way that make sense you know yeah exactly but you know you you would think right one of two things would happen there because there's only two options Was was what we just saw I think Ukraine and China should look into this Oh my God this is so much worse than focus with Joe Biden's son itself doesn't sound so bad but if you go donald trump calls on foreign governments to interfere in the election I mean technically thanks Chuck Todd's a journalist and they go this journalist told me these are debunked so I mean he would just say that with such certainty this is by the way this is not Rachel maddow and this is what those now because that's what the whole impeachment proceedings relying on I thought but Donald so this is this is the the in Chuck Todd's words a national nightmare excuse me Andrew McCabe talking about him and Rod Rosenstein did so what I mean like what's debunked about that but you can just say that Oh and he capable of civilized function just strain of questions like that where there are some angry negroes in some angry white people thing these debunked conspiracy theories it's just they just do that and then it would so fucked up about it is that there are still people out there only like fifty of them but there are still people at the the open they're not even being secretive about this but that's Chuck Todd's response to it and then like you said it was pretty funny that he goes to whistle blower this isn't it says it's like what's wrong with that the deep state was was working against Donald Trump right like nobody I've seen a lot of people try that nobody could against somebody who actually knows this at this before after his dream it was after the dream the dream right for the death okay and right in the middle of big old pile of pus the last seven wars that we've fought our spending the country into debt that will never pay off or you know what I mean like all the scandals we talk about all the time this is so much worse hey I think is you should look into this is really something all right let's go to the next video because what happened here which is funny so this is Chuck Todd on meet the press this Sunday and here's how he opened bins meet the press by addressing his actually get to meet the press on a show that's the show you're meeting him and he's the press while the okay so the show I'm an youtube I watched this one I remember years ago I watched it but it was like nineteen sixty eight with Martin Luther King on and it was the year Martin Luther King died a few months before he got and it's like before a time of political correctness or anything like that so like they would ask Martin Luther King these questions and they'd be like what do you say to the claim that the negroes aren't angry people not the president himself do you mean all the things we usually use just to make shit up outline like usually we just making it up and here's the David where the moderator would just they'd have a panel of journalists on back in the day and by the way there's old episodes of meet the press that were really interesting you can watch so many people including Donald Trump's Republican primary opponents predicted what happened and now it's upon us and less than three weeks we've moved from a simple wash story about it I mean trump himself said out loud that yes Ukraine in for that matter China should investigate by in other words you're darn right I did it there's nothing wrong with it seeing that we never got he did not have evidence right it didn't happen right so that wouldn't have been in good conscience about interfering in an election just allow that to be time perhaps every member of Congress Republican Democrat would do well to heed the words of Kurt Volker he's the former diplomat caught up in this Ukraine issue here's what Bulker said in his now I think Chuck Todd's been eating some shit for this video that he had the other day because people are making fun of him like a national nightmare you've like what are you talking about so he he implant which a whistle blower said President trump was pressuring Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and the origins of the two thousand sixteen election interference investigation to this Thursday the beginning and you have the you have all these people that we played last episode all these people just admitting it openly it look what Tucker Carlson said is the only argument you could make is that it's technically not a conspiracy because it was here I'm doing it again what are you going to do about it so this is where we are. The President United States calling on foreign governments plural to help him in next year's election good morning I made the point earlier this week that eight national nightmares upon us it's not something I said lightly or say it now but the stability of our democracy is at stake it's a moment is my responsibility to try to fix it so that's where Chuck Todd and this is where the quote objective journalists are tonight media he still has a little bit of a panel but now it's more of just a typical cable news show interview people and Shit like that but here's the opening of meet the press on Sunday yesterday good I no longer their job to report on the objective facts of a story and let the viewer decide which Chuck Todd's telling you is that look I'm China closet evidence similar poll from this case by the way I love that it's like it's so funny is that this is how so I've spent quite a bit of time on this show talking about job titles two different endeavors and again just he's doubling down on the national emergency story it's really funny like as you kind of aware of problem and it's my job to fix it okay but that is the role of an activist not supposed journalist are two different looted too early era but like so what would you call like it's this funny thing we're like what and this is part of the danger so basically nothing's a national emergency all right then chuck todd after After all of this insanity he had on a Republican Johnson. I believe the fellow's name as Republican congressman and I have I've watched Chuck Todd for many years I've never uh-huh white noise after a while the problem is that yes chuck todd I know you think it's a national emergency today guess what you thought it was a national emergency last week and the week before that House Democrats are now all but certain to impeach him Senate Republicans perhaps are all but certain to acquit him a country divided against itself than at any point in our lives think statement to congressional investigators I at some stage found myself faced with a choice to be aware of a problem and to ignore it or rather do accept that seen anything like this before and we don't have time on today's show but he also had John Brennan on and you should see the softball interview he gives John Brennan I mean another national emergency you know both the and this is the problem with the media's attempts to take down Donald Trump and this is why they've been largely so unsafe the week before that and basically since Donald Trump came down that elevator at a stupid hotel you've thought we were having a national emergency okay just it's really something we should play just as opening question to that because his opening question basically he goes you've been his opening question I mean I could basically tell you he goes you've I was getting crazy policy but but it was there's something really funny about the way they interviewed Martin Luther King because it's like they'd have like these like southern journalists on I winced my reaction was Oh god I don't WanNa see those two things combined why did you wince and what did you mean by those two things combined I've never seen a present administration be sabotaged from the day after the election I've never seen no no measure of honeymoon whatsoever and so the press keeping everything at eleven what if they're really like what what if Pearl Harbor to happens tomorrow we'll have another nine eleven happens tomorrow what do you call that then yeah I think that the negroes are angry over the oppression of it but this is really fascinating to look like how they talked about shit in that time so meet the press was a big panel of people from the I that the the frozen military aid was connected to a promise by Zilenski for investigations you said at that suggestion be no difference between that and what Chuck Todd does view Hey CIA can get you know there are you good you wanna Diet Coke Coke Coke zero that's better for you so you're such an awesome guy zestful so far is because if everything is the is the most outrageous scandal of the day everything's at eleven it all just kind of be is it like being you I this is like how you talk to the former CIA director a man who's right in the middle of this huge like you know scandal to put it investigation now do you remember what I said last week on the show when I said it's really important if you want to draw the right conclusions to frame things in the proper way mildly anyway so here is Chuck Todd Interviewing Congressman Johnson our discussion this morning with Senator Johnson Senator Johnson welcome back into the presser with what president trump has gone through. You know I'm sixty four years old I have never in my lifetime Sina president after being elected not having some measure well wishes from his opponents and that's what Senator Johnson's trying to do here so he's trying to start him with like you said this one little thing that this would be bad so this is bad right goes well is it let me just tell you what's going on with trump it was holed up military aid unless they tried to get to the bottom of the origins of the trump Russia investigation what he's talking about are involved in the origins of the trump we had your character assassinated in the media what what's it like going through all that it's like right away you're like wow man we might as well have state run media so he's chuck todd gets frustrated but I thought that's a completely reasonable way to start the interview anyway let's keep lying with Ukraine now listen if the voters don't have the relevant information yeah right so that was if anything they should say we shouldn't have to leave this to trump and foreign governments morning chuck let me start with something you told the Wall Street Journal late last week you had said when Mr Sunlen Seem Gordon sunlen seemed to imply orders would like to know where did this all come from who planted that false story senator I have a I have my third letter into the Inspector General tells US senator his entire his entire administration and now once he's been that was proven false he would like to know and I would like no and I know his why don't you ask him about this and of course chuck Todd's furious because this now POPs a hole in his entire narrative which is very simple you said this was bad and it happened so it's bad right stink our sisters who began linking light leaking like mad scorned word in political they're kicking into overdrive now December fifteenth six days scorned and what does this have to do with Ukraine it has everything oppose it here's what it has to do with Ukraine what Donald Trump what your alleging donald trump did what president trump said to endure a false accusation. By the way you've got John Brennan you ought to ask our director Brennan what did Peter Struck mean first of all you said a piece was typically very unbiased but let me first before I start answering all the detailed questions but let me just talk about why I'm pretty sympathetic Sir why Fox News conspiracy propaganda stuff is popping up on here is how just how before that is we first started hearing the leaking about Russia supporting the trump campaign that that that is why trump was so upset he had false narrative that resulted in being set up by James Komi and on January sixteenth then he has senator house appointed that has hampered his entire why I'm kind of sympathetic to him from the from before the day after he was elected forget him taking office he's been dealing with all of these things look at this text message you got Brennan on when he texted Lisa page on December fifteen two thousand sixteen Senator Kelly no let me let me finish what are they gonNA leaking Eh asking to just confirm just confirm are you investigating those leaks to Peter Struck talked about in the Senate any political rival fact raising hopes to lint roll I would think that how are you going to pay for that what does this Fox News talking points you know what she's asking where this fucking money's GonNa come from but so he just takes them through all these things infuriating is that again that's it's the Democratic candidates Birdie you know there'd be a Senator Sanders you've proposed six hundred trillion dollars in new spending anyway so he'll he'll be on on the show on Wednesday so I'm looking forward to that and yeah thanks for listening I'll be Soho form tonight catch me their piece investing the matter you can't officials reportedly helped Clinton allies research damaging information on trump is advisors there is potential interference in the two thousand sixteen. Let me ask you this that's what trump wants to the bottom of but the press doesn't want to and this article are being pilloried I'm being called conspiracy theorist John No rebuttal to the argument that you have and then goes others Fox News talking points debunked conspiracy theory just like that just three words Zeh so we know this isn't true this is Fox News says but the truth is Blah Blah Blah none of that just debunked Fox News well okay they can just oh that's it you don't get you don't get to make any of those points with this guy just said is that the whole trump Russia collusion thing turned out to be bullshit right that unlike unlike the narrative of the press that president trump wants to dig up dirt on his opponent what he wants he wants to an accounting of what happened and I wanted to I was supporting the eight as Senator Murphy as everybody that went to that initial inauguration but here's the salient point of why came forward when I asked the president somebody say that and it's like I don't know dude instead of just claiming something that debunk conspiracy are claiming their Fox News points since it's so stupid rate and Fox News is so dumb the number one story that people on your network Chuck Todd were running with light crazy turned out to be wrong so doesn't trump have a right to know where did this come from how did this story get out there weasel this chuck todd is it's like so what so you're just not going to respond to anything that that was brought up there by the way it's a pretty big point and this is the about that he completely denied it he adamantly denied it he vehemently angrily denied he said I'd never do that so that is the piece of the puzzle I'm here to report today and they're talking points are so wrong and the theory has been so debunked how about just win the argument then so show me where it's been debunked well this has been debunked because x y and rhetoric comes from the idea that you're asking a foreign government to interfere in our election to you know to the origins of the trump Russia investigation so here's the problem for Chuck Todd to deal with that his whole national nightmare way that has nothing to do with interfering election anymore that's just getting to the bottom of what happened in this last election what happened during this whole investigation that was like took up first twenty sixteen who set him up did things spring from Ukraine there's a good piece we've got an oversight letter on from political in two thousand seventeen where let me quote air that's Point Fox News talking points first off as very rude and Shitty if you're a hostess Rei was being frozen because the president wanted the an investigation. Why did you rent because I didn't want those connected Ah away to avoid answering questions to attack us in the press I'm well aware of that and that's where I'm trying to ask you something I said let me tell you what Volker what made you wince what is I'm asking a simple question about you clearly were upset that somehow there was implication that I explained that I believe that Mayor Giuliani continues to have a negative view of Ukraine based on assertions of actions that happened in two thousand sixteen and that this viewpoint is likely making its way to the dangerous position that Chuck Todd and his ilk have put themselves in is that what he just said there Senator Johnson just said blows Tom Being called conspiracy theorist because the press is horribly biased in trump and his supporters clearly and that I understand that president were you concerned that Rudy Giuliani's disinformation campaign sort of Ukrainian propaganda campaign was negatively info what what is it to undermine democracy or whatever rate but if we're looking backward at the last election that all falls it shouldn't be blamed for all of this really really outrageous and I'd love the moment where Chuck Todd just gets big Senator Senator Johnson and then as you up their entire narrative he wasn't trying to get dirt on Joe Biden I mean he made a one off common about that in in the telephone call but he said he wanted them to look in the article it says Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine trump they destroyed by disseminating documents implicating a top trump eight and corruption suggestion instead of trying to make Donald Trump feel better here that you're not criticize it not simple question and John Salomon doing some pretty good investigative reporting now the Washington Post is attacking him undermining him all information we have never got the answers to those questions ended out later then of course he has John Brennan does nothing but kisses ask through the whole interview can we get a little bit of that you know angry journalists we get that out for the season there's a lot of other stuff going on back into you know Hillary Clinton's campaign was searching for dirt maybe not only on Paul Manafort but try and keep President Vice President Biden out of the couple years of trump's administration so if you ask that then you're only argument is like well foreign governments should look into this stuff which is a pretty weak hi ed or no let's keep going that actually comes up to under oath and I'm curious if you share this concern investor Volcker said this chuck I want to get to the truth I'm not here defending the President I'm not here to denounce them either what I'm telling you my my piece of this puzzle here giving you adament especially if the foreign governments were involved in this stuff to begin with so they were already involved why shouldn't they be involved in uncovering it so he's got nothing response that so he's got a key question I want answered among I don't know about one hundred senator do do you not believe the Russians interfered of the presidential elections to benefit Donald Trump's they absolutely did I just that question alone so I mean if you're so concerned about protecting our democracy from what I understand if our government they're supposed to be three different branches they kind of keep each other and I guess you win Chuck Todd Let's keep playing that is that is senator exactly what president trump is upset in I just go the I know you try to attack the media I'm well aware you just blame the media it's like well maybe the media should be blamed how about defend yourself tell me why the meeting back so the answer is well I'm an elected official and I represent the American people and I'm a branch of government same as they are and part of my job is to make sure that they're doing their job the consent of the governed or whatever the whole myth is okay well none of them have any legitimacy to rule excuse me I'm a democratically elected senator these activities that's a legitimate branch of you know the government the same as the CIA is you care about democracy yeah there's nothing democratic about the CIA Russian if you don't trust them now you trust them now no interest in back then and you don't trust them now I do not trust John Brennan I'm not sure honest assessment of what I heard how the president told me repeatedly in the May Twenty Third Oval Office visit on the phone on the thirty first the reason he had very the deep state none of them are democratically elected and there's your if your whole thing is democracy and that's how you get your your legitimacy to rule is here APPs page okay after James Cone you believe the FBI and the CIA John Guys in the Obama Administration only thing the president's views or the current Ukrainian president so with reports and Allie from Rudy Giuliani but from Ken vocal out of political I've got to here is the extent of Chuck Todd's argument do you trust the CIA he goes no no the CIA and FBI them conclusions? You're trying to come to I'm just curious do you trust them now yeah I oversee the CIA are you at your mind trust them but imagine a journalist just going you don't trust the CIA of course because you should seconds bringing back a few seconds just like right there is fine because it's going to get to the best part of this but go ahead so I want to comment on that city not trust the FBI oh that's that's you talking about the CIA and the Edgy McCabe McCabe I don't trust James Comey I don't trust Peach Peter Struck I didn't trust John Brennan Senate on me ask you this I it was Peter Strut Peter Struck mean when the sisters began leaking like mad what what was the scorn and worried about what were they kick into overdrive there's one journalist go you don't trust them what you want to get to the bottom of this you want to verify that what

Chuck Chuck Todd Donald J trump president trump Joe Biden Russia John Brennan America Ukraine Fox News Israel senator David Smith Fox News Chuck Schumer Senate Senator Sanders Richard Wolf US Wall Street Journal
Slow Courts = Fantastic Tennis

The Mini-Break

47:11 min | 4 months ago

Slow Courts = Fantastic Tennis

"Support for this. Podcast comes from progressive. What would you do with an extra eight hundred dollars. Buy a plane ticket paid on your student. Loan treat yourself to those shoes. You benign with progressive. You could find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car insurance get your quote online at progressive dot com and see how much you could be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customer survey who save with progressive in two thousand nineteen. Welcome to the mini. Break your date podcasts. For the big storylines results and controversies from the tennis world. Today is monday march. Twenty ninth so many results for us to sift through from the past weekend of action. What we're going to do as we always try to do here to start our week. Reset things with all the action in miami. Of course it was a fantastic weekend in the college tennis world. The atp challenge tour never slows down. We're going to save those topics for our great shot. Podcast feed david. Gertler gonna join me later in the week to recap of the challenger action. Of course mance toco. Chris how the orest already joined me on the podcast. That's going to be released. Tuesday for all of your listeners. Recapping a wild weekend of college tennis. But what i want to do to recap all the action miami on part one or this. Podcast is gonna be two separate. It'll be a three hour episode. i'm gonna recap the weekend matches in miami. We're talking saturday and sunday. I believe that's back half round of sixty four front half round of thirty two four the men and then i think both round of thirty. Two's for the women. And then on part two of the podcast recap. Monday's matches round of sixteen four. The women round of thirty two for the men now. Of course you may have already seen those results and you know the impact of them on how i feel about the previous day's results to me. It makes no difference. I can be really excited about someone's performance in the round of thirty two round of sixty four. Whatever it may be. They can then lose their next match. I could still be excited about the previous mention. Of course there's a lot to be excited about. I don't want to skip any of that because again. We're just so excited to have tennis weekend week out day in day out amidst the pandemic we want to celebrate and take note of all the matches that are happening but again on today's podcast. Just gonna be me steering the ship part one. I'm going to recap all of saturday and sundays. Miami results To recap everything on monday so that were fresh to go. Tuesday night. Recapping tuesday's matches and so on and so forth. Of course the reason i'm able to do this day in day out here on the mini break. Podcast week in week out is because of all the support we get from all of you fantastic listeners. The support we get from our patriots subscribers and sincerely thank you to those patriots subscribers. It may be one dollar two dollars five dollars a month. It adds up and it supports all of the things. We try to do here at crack rackets and then of course i can do this day in day out here on the break podcast because of the support we get from our friends at midwest. Sports it's outdoor season folks. Update your gear so you can get your best performance for your return to the court. Go to midwest sports dot com where you can find all the best gear at all the best prices you used breast prices best prices. Hey great shot you use. Our promo code see are fifteen. You'll get fifteen percents off your order. Free two day shipping on all orders exceeding seventy five dollars and best of all a free can of wilson extra duty tennis balls midwest. Sports dot com. The promo code is c. r. Fifteen with that in mind. Do we have some tennis to talk about. Let's start on the women's side and for me. There are two big storylines may talked about them on the deciding point. If you listen to our great shot podcast feed. You may have already heard an abbreviated version of both of these story. One of them is the performance of the top seed to have been exceptional in miami. And i promise folks will get there but storyline number one the most feel good story and perhaps the most impactful story moving forward is the return of on acopia to an elite level in one thousand level event. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the name on coney twenty-three-year-old croatian is a former world junior number one who won the twenty thirteen junior australian open singles title. She followed that up playing a classic twenty thirteen. Us open girls singles final. I believe that match against tornado. Alicia black was seven six in the third battle back at the twenty thirteen. Us open again for me. That senior year of high school So that's right in the prime. When i'm following those things closest if you're asking why i remember that but let's talk about some of the other things coney as accomplished in her young career a she made her debut. Atp excuse me wti debut. Hey gray shot in two thousand fourteen at age sixteen. She made her debut in the top. One hundred in two thousand fifteen. She won her first wnba title in nottingham becoming the youngest player to win a main tour event since two thousand six she also reached a career. High ranking of number twenty in the deputy rankings in july of two thousand seventeen that came on the back of second round performances at the australian open and french open a fourth round the two thousand seventeen wimbledon and a quarter final at the two thousand sixteen. Us open you look at what. She's accomplished more granular throughout her career. Of course she had a couple of top ten wins. Of course. I mentioned the junior slam title. She's had in her career the top ten when she beat rudd wants to get at the us open in the fourth round. She beat content. Simple cova in twenty seventeen. She was on her way to be to establishing herself as one of the top young players in the women's game and then unfortunately injuries and off court setbacks have held her back. These past few seasons you look overall in twenty eighteen. She was barely able to play in total. She played six matches. She goes to and four in those matches. Twenty nine thousand nine hundred. She's only able to play five matches than twenty twenty. She's not played able to play at all until after the tour restarts in august. She goes twelve and five in primarily twenty five k. Level events makes a couple of semifinals. Wins ah w twenty five k. title. Inza grab to end the season and then here to start the year nine and six overall but most importantly you know. She plays qualifying at the australian open. Loses a three set match to irani qualifies dubai before losing to anisimov a loses. Second round of qualifying in saint petersburg but makes the most of her wild card here on the weekend and this past weekend she. She knocked off ecosphere contact. That was the big result on saturday. Six four two six six two comes on the back of her beating. Madison keys and katharina sin jaka in straight sets and i mean you watch konia play for ten minutes in. You're like oh yeah that and you find out. She's twenty three. You're like i bet. She was really good in the juniors because the ball just slowed off of iraq. It and let's start with a backhand because her ability to catch that backhand early go both cross court and down the line with tremendous power her ability to buy time on that wing. Elevate shots over the anatomy ability to catch that ball early and go short angle and it just makes sense why you know when you watch her. You're like oh yeah with that contact point with the way she swung. That ball should go exactly there. It just looked so easy for her on that wing and then the four handed an extreme grip. But she's able to produce heavy topspin changed direction create angle take the ball early. The ground strokes are really nice. In again you look for her performance here in her matches against veon tech. She makes sixty three point. Six sixty four percent of her first serves when seventy one percent of those points. Fifty percent of her second serve points saves four of the seven break points. She faced but he created fourteen break chances for herself only converted for them but they were the four. She needed she won over. I believe our she one fifty three point five percent of her second serve return points thirty seven percent of her first research points but about forty four percent for the match with the way she was holding serve. That was good enough and look you watch her play. It's clear konia's movement is not where it needs to be. Movement was never the strongest part of her game. But you she really hasn't played this level of matches in two three season so the fact that her footwork you know if you can get her stretched into the outer third. She'll either you know. Just say good shot. You win this rally. She's very good at conserving. Her energy or again she'll be stretched. Show hit a slice. And then you can go to the open court. You can go behind her things. Start to open up if you can get her on her back foot but you can say that about a lot of people and i think the most promising part for on a cognac is the fact that you know. She hasn't played a competitive match and three years. Give her two months of action. I promise you she will get back into the sort of match shape. She was two three seasons ago. That's the last piece that comes back when you're working from a long injury like this and the fact that the ground strokes look at as good as they do the fact that you know again in each of the matches she played this week. She won about seventy percent of her first serve points. She was over fifty percent on second. Serve points in two of her three victories. You have already seen her. She loses to sevastopol spoiler. Alert will talk about that in a little bit but on part two of this podcast but you know you watch konia and you can watch a lot of players in the top one hundred. The ball doesn't explode off of their rackets. The way does from her. She just has that talent. She's in that top point one point five percent of pro players who the ball just comes off the racket differently than everyone else and again patients will be the key even with her result here this week konia only at number two forty one in the live ranking so she she's gonna get some wildcards probably but she'll still have to play. I events hundred k's qualifying. She'll get a lot of matches under her belt if her bodies able to hold up but if her body is able to hold up she'll be in the top one hundred by the end of the twenty with the rankings protections. Maybe not this year. But i'd say the two thousand twenty two and she's talented. The ball she just strikes the ball to well. If you don't have weapons she's gonna hurt you if you leave a ball in the center of the court she's gonna punish you and even when you get her stretch she can do. Some special things on a konia was fantastic this week. Her win over beyond tech against six four. Two six six two was one of the matches of the weekend and again you know i thought it a really good job because she went down and break in that second set she could have just gone away. She didn't she bounces back. Takes the set six two but you know she just got a little tentative she koneohe through a lot of pace at her particulary at that forehand wing and she would leave a ball short in the center of the court and you know in the match. Her second serve sat up a little bit in these courts. In miami's playing so slow in that does help on konia for sure but you know the foreign. It was a little concerning because you do. It really wasn't concerning. I thought actually. She competed really well even though her game she didn't have her eight game on the day but again she did fight off ten of the fourteen break. Chances she fe. She kept this match super competitive. Coney just had the bigger weapons. I suppose that's the scary thing is if konia has bigger weapons and fiancee tech. She must be striking the ball well and she is. You know again. I found the forehand broke down a little bit in this match win pressured by pace but i thought she moved really well. She did a really solid job of withstanding. The first strike of co problem is second. Strike was just on on this day. And i think she fed the her backhand. It was just anytime soon. Teck hit to that backhand wing felt kona took control of the rally is really good performance from ana koneohe but again no concern from tickets. It's maybe her first. Round third. Like second round of thirty two atta masters event. This was not a bad loss by any stretch of the imagination. And by the way with this result xiantao's still putting points on the board for herself. She's gonna move up. I believe in the rankings. Her excuse me stay. Put number at number sixteen But she did gain points this week by making the round of thirty two in miami. Which of course is a little bit funny In the fact that she's a grand slam champion and still not ranked inside the top ten. But that was your big result from konia. That story nine number one story number two as i mentioned is the story of the top seeds continuing to show their form. Let's start with one of the less heralded seeds a topsy topsy to some people often. I don't wanna see some people. I hate attacking arbitrary straw man. It's fair to say alina s- fiddling upside is not as high as someone like a naomi. Osaka like bianca andrew rescue like an arena sample lenka even who when they're playing their best tennis simply we'll just hit their opponents off the court. Of course you wanna put kavita in that list mugabe. Ruth obviously a higher ceiling as well but alina s- fiddle. Lena is damn good in outside of simona halep. She's been the most consistent player in the women's game over the past seven and a half seasons. Don't believe me. Let's look at her record since two thousand fourteen. Thirty eight and twenty four forty one in twenty four forty one in twenty two fifty three in sixteen forty four and sixteen forty twenty one twenty one and nineteen. She's now thirteen in five to start the season here as she makes the quarter finals of this event this past weekend really impressive. Victory seven six six four over katharina alexandrova and it's a small thing because we all know. Certainly it's going to track down tunnel. Boss can make a bunch of extra shots. She's gonna move the ball well around the court she's gonna absorb your pace redirected but if you have the big weapons you can overwhelm her but fit alina. It's an i test numbers thing. Sort of matching up her first serve percentage on the season a little bit lower than it normally is. She's currently i believe at fifty point one percent for the season that's under her career average of sixty one point four however she's winning sixty eight percent of her first serve points that's greater than her first serve percentage of sixty six for her career. She's also at forty eight on the second serve. that's better than her career. Number of forty six. I think that's an testing. You can see. She's trying to be a little bit more aggressive on trying to create some plus when opportunities a few more free points in the match even if it leads to a slight dip in the first serve percentage. She trusts the rest of her game. And it's just can't she make things easy enough for herself over the course of a long match with a sample linka in osaka. Who eventually are going to find their rhythm right. And just hit you off the court for three straight games. Cance fiddle. lena do that to her. Opponents is the question that will determine respectfully whether she wins a grand slam in her career or not because she's so excellent at everything else again. A top ten mover in the women's game. I think forehand backhand wing. Neither is a glaring error. She's able to do all the things she wants. Shots go line go. Craw short angle. Elevate to crete time. She's got pretty good hands not great but good enough hands at the net in his able to recognize when the opportunity presents itself for her to move forward again. It's not the sexiest pick to say. Fiddling is going to make the semi-final of the event. But that's what usually happens. Whenever she's playing something like this at least the quarter-finals and again she just kind of worked alexandrova in this match through. A bunch of different looks at her never went in the same direction more than twice in a row. Because if you go in the same direction twice in a row alexandrov has got enough pop from the ground to hit through you. And she benefits from the slow core conditions as well gives her that extra half second to set her feet but fiddling just through a million different looks at her and again it was a really impressive. Victory for spin lena. To advance to the round of sixteen in ultimately will talk about her round of sixteen match again in part. Two of this podcast. Those were the two breakdowns i wanted to get. To from saturday's results. In terms of again the other matches kavita straight set. Wins over konta. It like this might be one of those weeks for her. She looked so outstanding has continued to be great here early in twenty twenty one sap elanca really nice victory over an informed. Rana cooter mathov again. Kuramoto veronica cooter montalva. Kuna tova is not going to be a top ten player. She just doesn't quite have enough of everything to get to that upper echelon but she's gonna beat a lot of top twenty top ten players throughout her career because when it looks good it looks really good for cooter matova. She's great athlete. She plays low flat tennis. And i think these courts were perfect for her settling. Just overwhelmed her with her. Power was one of those days four sample inca but caputo made her sweat and she was up. Four three in that first set tie-breaker linka serves cooperman. Topa miss two returns that she would love to have back because very makeable returns. But then sap. Lincoln hit a return winner. And i think a backhand down the line winner and that was the set. And that's when arenas apple inca will duty you great performance for her great performance for vk azarenka who i think moves to nine and one in her career ahead with angelique. Kerber kerber threw everything at azarenka in that first sadden in lead at multiple different times but just didn't have enough firepower to hit through as aranka again particularly on the slow courts azarenka. The run last year was real folks. She's back she looks great five and to win over kerber. You also had victories on the day from ashleigh. Barty who she you know. People questioned her deserving of the number one ranking. I'm not going to question. The merits of their questioning of her having the number one ranking because yes. She hasn't played as much tennis as a lot of other players. These past fifteen months but she's absolutely a top five player in the women's game her movement her ability to move the ball around the court her ability to absorb what you do. And take away thing you want to do. The most special folks and she just worked ostapenko to the corners in this match. It was a fun straight-set victory for her. Fortunately halla pulled out with injury against sevice stove. Hopefully we get her healthy for the french open. Run and then kevon drew of a three set. Win over belinda bench. Four six four six four. That match was fantastic. I'm not going to do a full breakdown. Because if i do this podcast will go six hours. But ventures about the lefty courts. Move the ball around. the court. Threw million different looks at bench. Bench is starting to play her best tennis again. Folks in that firepower can hit through anyone but von dirksen Work again was a really really fun. High level three three-set match. That was your saturday action. Let's go to sunday now on the women's side again just a cup. Nothing to christ for you in terms of the breakdown no conus fiddle lena epstein breakdowns but the sunday tennis across the board was fantastic. You had eight matches seven really given that osaka got a withdrawal from stoyanovich. Six of the seven matches go three sets on the day. And i mean let's start with the nightcap bianca and rescue seven six six seven. Six four over amanda denise. I'm over. I don't know how else to say it. Other than this. If healthy and rescues back she is that talented. She is that good that run to the us open title was no fluke folks and the level in this match was incredibly high and look a niece moments dealt with a ton of different injuries tunnel. You know off court things and we don't have to relitigate those right now but she's got so much. Talent does the young american. And i mean what. She's five eleven six foot. Her serve her groundstrokes the power she possesses one connects cleanly with the ball. It's either going to be a winner or it's going to set up a winner on the next stroke and you know i'm so sad. I didn't think of this comparison earlier. It reminds me of a modern caroliina. Plus cova a nissan elva a little bit more fluid. Leave a center in the ball in the center against her against plus cova. The point is over and they used their length to beat you to the spot. Take the ball early. Neither of them is going to be the most fluid moves around the court but because of their length they're able to a track down that ball and put it on your body before you're ready to hit it and you know i think i need a as really dynamic as well and in this match. She made seventy percent of her first serves one over sixty one sixty three point five percent of her first-serve points fifty six point. Eight percent of her second serve points fought off fourteen of the seventeen break points. She faced now. Why i say rescues legit and rescue got broken twice but those were the only two break points she faced. She was os to in terms of saving them but she was forty six fifty nine seventy percent on first-serve points twenty four second. Serve points whenever she was able to play plus one tennis or just get that return deep on the body of niece mova. She essentially won the point she whenever she was able to get stretched and she used her variety. Her dropshots her short angles taking the ball. Early moving forward hitting swinging volleys. She can do a little bit of everything and she moves really well and again she was able to withstand the overwhelming power of anisimov. A she didn't get too flustered. When an isam over would hit that kind of stretched out loop dover medvedeva stretch forehand down the line winner which can do because again. She's got that sort of firepower. But andrew skew throws everything at you and she's got that sort of firepower as well the jack of all trades. She's so delightful to watch so happy. She's healthy. she continues to find her form in. This is her best win yet as she knocks off a nissan over in three sets and now she's got our bean garuba who knocks off in three sets. Callen sky maruta but that was a great result. Count sky is the real deal folks. She's got that sort of firepower. That's what's so exciting about so many of these young players they all just hit the ball differently. Like it's just incredible. You can't leave balls in the center clara. Toss in saying sky. Obviously i just went on and on about amanda nissan. Mova i mean. I don't know if it's technology. I don't know if it's fitness. It's probably a combination of everything that the next generation of women's tennis is going to be. So so upstanding. There's so many talented young players accounts guy one of them. But that just too good credit to own your boot. Gets the first half ten of her win of her career. Three sets over her nemesis on the court. Sonia kenan this match featured so much variety so much fun point construction a far too many dropshots any humans liking but it was a really physical match again for kenan. No she you know. She usually wins this one. She didn't today but she's still finding her way back post-surgery posts many different things. So i thought it was a good competitive result for her. She really confident right now. Playing some great tennis. That's a great win for her. A well earned first top ten win of her career in terms of the highest quality match. I saw on the day. Lisa merton annette controversy mets. The alex can special. I talk about those players almost every week on the break. They're not the grand slam contenders. But they're the best of the rest. They're the ones who you can just pencil into your round of sixteen at each round At grand slam because unless you are significantly better than them. You're not going to beat them. They can just do a little bit of everything they move. Well they put balls away. Variety forehand-backhand backhand serves returns. That's the mertens controversy story. And this match was physical. I mean our forty seven for a six two zero six six two you think. Oh those are. All lopsided straight matches probably Sets is probably quick match. But no i mean ten fifteen twenty ball rallies context kind of figured out. Okay i want to go to mertens forehand side because that's the more I suppose that's the side with more variants that fluctuate more than her backhand wing but mertens just through the kitchen sink at contraband. They both again move really really well. They both take advantage when the opportunity presents itself to move forward attack. A short ball change direction. This was just fun physical tennyson. You know mertens. The wti wins leader last year for recent. She's a really tough outright now. Concentrate just didn't have quite enough juice. And it really felt like after constantly won the first game of the third set that she was going to win in my opinion the set but then mertens just found a level raced out to a five one. Lead conduct kept fighting back. But you know it just felt like every game point broke mertens way in that third seven. That's a credit when you're confident things roll your way. A certainly are for. Lisa mertens right. Now she's into the round of sixteen your other three results cirrus re best tormo. Who by the way now. Twenty five in eleven in her la- excuse me twenty seven and eleven in her last fifty two weeks she's knocked off bernard para in three sets jennifer brady in three sets in now elena rebecca in three sets as she earns a six one three six six two victory. She played high percentage tennis. You know she makes seventy percent of her first serves now though serves are so attack in you know she only wins fifty seven point three percent of her first serve points forty five point three percent of her second. Serve points the good news for her. Her first and second serves are fairly similar. The good news is she's one forty nine point two percent of her return points over the last fifty two weeks. She puts about every return in play. Her backhand slice just gives people trouble and then she moved so well around the court. Obviously she's coming off a win in guadalajara semi-final in monterey. She's confident as can be and now with these results. Sarah serie best tormo. Who by the way only twenty four years old up to new career high of number forty eight in the rankings. And what's so scary. Is you know with her game style. She's gonna be really really tough out on the clay so for her to rack up this many points at the wto level this early in the season beyond the look up her to crack the top forty beyond the look for to potentially be seated. Come the women's french open. She's that well-positioned she's playing that well. Such high percentage tennis and she tracks everything. Down that backhand slice is going to give you difficulties. It was a fantastic victory for her three sets over again. it was just the perfect contrast. She broke the strike zone of her opponent. Six one three six six two elena china who again i continue to say another three-set loss for her. She's come so close so often. This season don't give up hope on rebecca but certainly start thinking confidently positive thoughts about sarah serie best home. She has been fantastic here in twenty twenty one and just quickly by the way. Because i'm talking about how fantastic these players have been by alot ranking the tennis abstract which again measures who you're beating not wear your when you're beating them. Sarah sirri best hormone right now. Number forty seven on their Rankings by yearly ila ratings. Which is again eli ratings. Who you're playing are who you're beating just in this twenty twenty one season. She's a number twenty player by tennis abstract yearly. Elo ratings. she's eleven and three on the honestly number twenty feels about right. She has been other. She's ahead of people like convince us. So that's not right jabbour. That's probably not right but again she certainly been a top fifty player. You could argue top thirty these past fifty two weeks. She's just now certainly starting to have the results to prove that ranking god. I could get lost in these year. Though yearly ratings cass aquinas. three right. now that's probably a stretch jessica. Big euless four right now. Is that a stretch given she's been caroline applicable now three times. She doesn't again six four in the third to advance to the round of sixteen. I don't know number four. Yeah that's a stretch. But she's been a top twenty player certainly here to start the year fantastic win for her over plus cova and then maria soccer continues to rock and roll. She's regained her rhythm. Owen one win for her over samson. Ova that's your round of sixteen on the women's side on the men's side again fantastic set of results and i you know. I think the title of today's podcast is going to be slow. Courts equals fantastic. Tennis that has truly manifest itself on the men's side. I mean you start to look at some of the players who have had success here this week guys like daniel galon who was so outstanding on the clay courts to end last season. And i think made a semi-final at one of the south american clay court fifties a guy like sebastian korda. Frances tiafoe quarter was a fourth round. French open tiafoe. Highest win percentage by surface for him is clay guy like daego schwartzman. Or even you know. The character of players. The mayor in chile of the world of taylor fritz's of the world to a avoriaz who are bad movers. But certainly on a quicker court. Their lack of elite movement gets exposed. Will you give them an extra half second extra second. Give him a high bounce like these courts in miami are giving them. They're going to go on runs because when they have clean contact with the ball hit the ball as hard if not harder than anyone and that sort of dictated the results. We've seen across the board here this weekend in miami. Let's start with daniel galon who with his victory over alex de minaur four six six three six four is now was twenty six and nineteen in his last fifty two weeks but reaches the round of thirty two at a master's first masters victory of his career. You look now in the live rankings with these results galon up to new career high of number one ten he is now about. Let's see seven eighty four seven thirty nine about forty six points away from cracking the top one hundred and he has been that good. I mean you look for him over. The last fifty. Two weeks qualified made the third round of the french open. He wins the challenger in lima on. Clay makes a semi-final the week after in yaas made a semi-final at the kerry challenger to start this season. He wins a match del. Ray beach and you know makes that semifinal in santiago he's been right on the border of being top one hundred player and you'll find someone who looks at you who loves you the way daniel galon loves to hit forehands and on these slow courts boy did he find four hands against alex de our. You know it's very kyle. Ed mindy in the way he dominates off of that wing. If you give him a forehand he's in control of the point and he's go inside out inside out inside out to open up the inside in forehand and his backhands not a weapon. But it's more than just a placeholder like he is confident with his backhand in rallies. He can move that ball around. He's hits a really really heavy kick. Serve and you look for him against demon our he wants seventy two percent of his first-serve points fought off ten of the thirteen breakpoints. He faced. I mean he just had the biggest weapon on the corden team and hours taken some tough losses over the past few weeks. You look for him now over his last fifty two. He's nineteen and thirteen but the finals he made are the title. He wanted. Intel you to start the season the final he made in antwerp and the quarterfinals in the us. Open a lot of the heavy lifting you know. He's now lost his last three matches all in three sets. It was three sets to nisha corey. Three sets to share d three sets to daniel on. He lost three sets about teesta guten. Atp cup he lost three sets tian center in sofia three sets to nil medvedev in paris. His fitness keeps him in every man. She plays in his speed the mount pressure he puts on you. That's sneaky athleticism that sneaky pop on the forehand. He's a good back to win a set in each and every match he plays the problem. Is you know the first serve is good. It's not great in the second serve sits up a little bit and you know again. He's going to be a top twenty top twenty five guy throughout the course of his career. Longest he's healthy. What gets him into grand slam. Contending range is can develop that weapon. Can he make that. I serve a legitimate sets up a plus one ball for him every time. Can he get more free points because he does make things so difficult for himself given his athletic. I mean that's what he wants but of course that is just a tough style of play. Three out of five sets for two weeks. i'm gallon. Had been weapons than him in this matching certainly concerning giving galon not a top one hundred player but on will be top one hundred players shortly. And he's only what twenty three twenty four year old colombian. But you know if you're demon our. You're disappointed you were so close in this match but if you're daniel on your elated because you have played that well of late in the results are finally starting to come together. These conditions were perfect for him and he made the most of them getting the three-set victory speaking of making the most of the conditions of the matches available to you. Sebastian korda moves to twenty eight eight. I believe in his last fifty two weeks as he knocks off fabio phonemes earning the highest ranked win of his career With with a one six six four six two victory over the number ten seed. I mean look quarters numbers. The last fifty two weeks. Twenty nate overall french open fourth round i two challenger titles of his career. I final of his career in delray beach now. He makes the first round of thirty two and spoiler alert first round of sixteen at a masters event of his career. You look at the live rankings. Now despite all the protection sebastian korda up to new career. High of number seventy six. You look in the elo ratings by the way by illustrating daniel on right now number one thirty two bi yearly elo rating. Let's see what daniel john is right now. By e yearly illustrating. He's one seven however sebastian gorka number twenty eight bi yearly yellow rating number thirty six overall by yellow rating. I had this debate last tonight with someone. I think he's top fifty player. And i think it's pretty hands down like i don't think anyone. Do you think fashion quarter top fifty player right now. You look at his results. And i think you have to say yes and i think you can go even higher than that. He really has been borderline at top thirty two player in the world. Like if i asked you. Who are you more confident in right now. Moving forward sebastian korda or alex de minaur because the fairly similar in age before this year no are before august absolutely. No one says corta. After his french open run there may be a few people who say court now now didn't is it fifty fifty. I mean if you're listening to this podcast and you feel strongly. Please tweet at me accurate. Shout pot court. Averse de minaur. Who do you feel more strongly about. Certainly court has got the bigger weapons. He's got the definition of your modern male tennis player physical profile and he's got the results of late as well yet. It's a hot take that. I'm not saying i feel that way. I'm saying i don't feel any better about sebastian. About alex de minaur than to sebastian court. I feel equal equally exceptional about fashion. Corta just seventy six percent of his first serves when sixty nine percent of those points fights off eight twelve breakpoints gets the four eight on his break point chances. He's just efficient. He's disciplined it. Look so easy. He'd do a little bit of everything. Sebastian korda fantastic result over fabio for niimi in terms of the rest of your saturday. Saturday results again. These were round of sixty four matches going to rapid fire through them. Straight set wins from seats. Poss- andrey rublev indego schwartzman all top five seed shop of all of of played a testy but ultimately very fund six seven. Six four six four match against ilia vodka to advance thought. It was great way up all the justed the way he slowed down. But i still think physically. He clearly looks like he's taken a step forward. This year i think melo's round. It looks really good this week. Tune one win over jordan thompson. These high bouncing conditions so great for the servant volleyers. And you know that's why you saw him win. We saw is ner. Have success as well you look across the board chile. Another guy beat christian garin seven six in the third got chile having his best week since probably the twenty nineteen season. Your other winners carrots have over cushman unbear- over so some seti making bete-noire payer bryce oppose allowing ben pair to go on in early vacation. Senegal mannarino her hurkacz nishikori. Phuc soviet very fun three-set match overton esi cook innocuous your other winners on saturday. Let's move now to sunday's matches. And again i know. It's a bit monotonous here. Just have a lot of tennis to catch you all on. I apologize if you're sick of my voice. Although i suppose at this point it is in everyday podcast. And i think on it every day so probably used to my voice so with that in mind stuck by the round of thirty two matches. A lot of these were fun. We had eight of them. I believe one two three four five six seven of on. That can't be right. One two three four five six seven eight matches of the eight go three sets and if you include the seven six seven six affair between is and faa against seven of the eight decided on the margins. You're one straight-set win. Sasha puplic who continues to ride his momentum you look at the yearly ratings and and yellow ratings book right now by elo rating number twenty three bi yearly e low rating. You look for but. Number forty three by general yellow rating. Look for him right now in. The live ranking sasha black number. Forty five other feels about right as it's really difficult to beat The big server or excuse me the big serving twenty-three-year-old from kazakhstan. You look at the results. You know medvedev was cramping against alexi properly at the end. That may be the story. You want the real story. Medvedev forty five or forty nine and first-serve points. I'll actually popper in his first serve his forehand their elite and he won seventy three percent of his first-serve points goes fifty. Four of seventy four. He saved. I believe seven of the nine point that he faced was only broken twice in the match. Against maybe the third best returner on tour second best returner right now. Individual medvedev But you know if you can get the ball to his backhand wing if you can prevent him from setting his feet in turning into a forehand. You're going to be able to have success against him. And of course mad. No one does better taking away the thing you wanna do the most then daniel medvedev who had just enough who placed his serves just well enough to escape in a three-set him cramping at the end. Victory and again alexi popper forehand that serve. They're going to them. A lot of matches in his career is coming off of the first. Atp title of his career. he's been really great of late but again these slow the inside out forehand return. He ripped clinch the set on set To clinch the second set on set point. That's sort of him in the nutshell when he does that. When that shots landing he can beat anyone but he can also very much that on that list of anyone includes himself and just you know again. Medvedev makes things so tough for him popper and fought but medvedev just a little bit too much in the end. The best match of the day on sunday on the men's side belong to jahic sinner. Who knocked off. Karen hatch nov four. Six seven. Six six four in an incredibly physical affair center just hits the ball at a different speed ed with just more velocity more pace more action than ninety nine percent of players in luck. He's twenty seven and eleven now in his last fifty two weeks. He reaches the round of sixteen at a major for the first time in his career end. You know his first serve now. He's winning seventy percent of his first-serve points fifty three percent of his second serve points. He's holding eighty one percent of the time he's breaking serve about twenty seven percent of the time. Which isn't quite jovic. Nidal prime of their career level. Good but it's better than prime roger federer and he's you know holding serve at over eighty percent which is a really really good mark and i just think physically he becomes a better and better mover feels like with every match that cross court little flick slice shot he off hatch enough dropshot to create a break point chance for himself at four. All in the third said that just a pity is is improving athleticism and again his ability to change direction hatch tried to play to his backhand wing but center was having none of that he was going down the line with his backhand cross-court with his backhand never hitting the ball in the same direction more than two times in a row in. Just you can't let him play. Plus one forehand tennis because his weapons are too big. You can't let them play. You know big on the return you have to make a high percentage of first serves because you just can't give them control of the point but you know as he gets into the outer thirds of the court. He gets better and better with each passing matches. Well he's just a stud. I'm all in on yanni's center. He does have grand slam champion type upside and i'm not saying i didn't believe that before but i thoroughly believe it now. Not just one slam. But i may feel better about him. I mean certainly. then he's probably above the. I really like court of late. But he's definitely above the demon our tear the church near the hatch enough tear. He's advanced at a man at a minimum into the shape of all of faa tear. He may even be amongst the group now. It might be the big four of you. Know i still really think cafe is going to win a grand slam one day so i keep them in that group but it's probably five names now seat see palace medvedev. Faa have and center. I those are the five guys. I would be shocked if they emerged from this era without a grand slam title. That's how good jahic center has looked of late. Of course again. There are so many other good matches on the day is ner doesn't lose tiebreakers doesn't lose in miami. He's gone the past three years champion finalist now round of sixteen s he knocks off faa. And what was a really fun. Seven six seven six at least as fun as an is ner match can be are. Ba continues to come through in the big moment for six six. Three six two win for him over. Strew f- frances tiafoe three-set matches are what he does and again the slower court the higher the bounce the better he is one six seven five six three victory for him over the do stu. Sunlight luggage taylor. Fritz really nice three-set victory for him over cam. Nori again that extra half second. The conditions in miami providing him gave him enough time to swing through that backhand. And i think he actually won the backhand. The nori lefty forehand exchanges. His serve. I mean you look at the numbers in the match taylor. Fritz makes only sixty percent of his first serves but he's forty to fifty seven makes seventy four percent of a win seventy four percent of his first-serve points saves three of the four break point chances he faces a meal. Rusev ori who talked about a little bit on the last mini break podcast but just continues his form. Four six six one seven five in the battle of the nordic states as he knocks off sweden mikhail again a really fund match between two youngsters. But that's your weekend action in miami. And i'm telling you the round of sixteen women's matches the front half of the round of thirty two from the men's side. It delivered the goods on mondays In on monday in miami. So you're absolutely going to want to stick around for our part. Two of this podcast. Where again. I'll talk exclusively about monday's results. That will have us all caught up for tuesday nights. Podcast which will recap tuesday's matches and then from there. We're good to go the rest of the week. Of course i will remind you if you missed any of the action you need the immediate synopsys. You want to hear more about college. Want to hear more about challenger tennis you can find out about it. All on our website cracked rackets dot com. Of course like rate subscribe review to this podcast. The great shot podcast cracked interviews podcasts. And all of our crack shows you need the more immediate updates twitter instagram facebook youtube. We are at cracked rackets message directly. Excuse me i am at great shot pod shadowed as always to our super producers. Max leader daniel stuff for the of any job. They do day in day out show as well to our friends at midwest. Sports go to mid west sports dot com use. That promo code see are fifteen one last shout out. My boy old blew my old microphone. She i call her my boy but she unfortunately has retired on us. She passed away officially of course again. Old blue is a microphone that i recorded the first one eleven hundred crack. It's podcast with however many we've done. They were all by old blue. And unfortunately i think she had heard enough of my voice in she was just ready to be done with it But she was great to me. We'll get a replacement mike. It's already been ordered. It's in the mail so my peace will stop popping moving forward but again it's official. Do twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. She was fantastic to me. Studies thing. I had going unfortunately no more podcasts. For her but nevertheless again. That's really just my way of saying. I will have my new microphone in shortly. The audio quality will be back to where we want it to be with that in mind for my wonderful co co host my wonderful producers figuring westhoff our friends at midwest sports and all of us here at both craft rackets and the tennis channel podcast network. I'm your host. Alex ruskin we say that's the break and we will see all apart to thanks everyone else.

konia tennis miami anisimov alina midwest mertens azarenka daniel galon Gertler mance toco orest Alicia black sebastian korda Inza
Episode 920: Self-Hating Jew supporting the Squad?

The Charles Moscowitz Podcast

57:09 min | Last month

Episode 920: Self-Hating Jew supporting the Squad?

"Suv go love and youtube. Just we had a little bit of resolution in israel. I guess but we should definitely talk about that and and also Thanks for joining me up. He one charles moskowitz here with david david. An i are have been doing this program on thursdays. Live at one. P m. we discuss often Judaism and its intersection with politics with israel with culture so dove. This is a new government in israel now Headed by naphtali bennett. It will be there for two years and then Lop eared will be in there for two years to kind of a similar to the national unity government in israel. back in the seventies when you had peres and shamir share a four year term peres into and then shamir during two. And it's one of these kind of compromises where a government was cobbled together and was able to obtain enough votes and enough seats in the knesset to be in power so they are in place now. Israel also has a new president. what what What do you see The situation as it stands now. And what do you think we should expect there. I mean the biggest difference obviously is bennett. Only having five percent of the vote think either coalition government. Then you'll prime minister is no comparison. Ever that does someone could be prime minister with only five percent of the vote and it was obviously because of the vast Pressure to get rid of netanyahu that such a possibility but i don't know we could look it up. Put your how many seats shamir something has. But but i think they had at least fifteen twenty percent of the electorate. But not unfortunate probably. I'm not. I'm not so confident. I think that I mean you see that The most likely thing that's going to happen in it could be instantly could even be today. There's already problems coming today. That will talk about with the votes that ever came across. The knesset that everyone that the polls eighty percent of israelis maybe even ninety percent predict that this government is going to collapse. And then we're going to be in the same situation. We were before of but is not going to be netanyahu. It's going to be naftali bennett. And as i think it's going to be a disaster. We talked about How he did in lebanon telling you like besides like the un and international corden palestinians. that even israel said that like this guy was a loose cannon. This guy was out of control and that was the israeli report and it is our prime minister. I mean at least. I mean israel citizen but the people that really care and follow about israel and the most likely thing is the government is going to collapse and we're going to be in the same situation with perpetual Abandoned that and you may be they'll be able to speak out of budget of before the government collapses but i would not be surprised if The government collapses before they could even eke out a budget and you may be israel could survive. You'll like going on like this. I mean you talked to mordecai qatar and visions for israel as american citizens basically include call it the destruction but the dismantling of the way the israeli government is currently set up. So i mean i mean even charles we have disagreements about what we would like to see in israel. I think both of us largely agree that the current system probably has to be dismantled in. They need some sort of constitutional convention in new structure. A government of its emirate or whatever a system But that's not on the table that's just like people like me and charles. In even in israel people like professor could dr are avesta minority in and unfortunately on likely the only thing that will unify israel again will be some sort of military threat. So i i get a minimum. I'm pretty. I wouldn't use the word scared of but i'm worried and pessimistic. You know. I don't really know the politics of israel deeply. I should say that up front here. I interview people over the years. Including recently o'clock odar and maya sense is that The government is going to go forward. And it'll be fine. And i think he will be prime minister for two years and that lapierre will be prime minister. Two years just like the Peres arrangement that you know disarray. Of by which of people's pasts can be forgiven once they're in power. You know nothing the given but you know. There are various dynamics that take place where people want someone to be in power and what they represent regardless and we could look at for example biden. I mean look. The guy has a racist segregationist past where he's using. The edward consular made vicious anti-black confident speeches in congress and was you know and yet that's overlooked because the the establishment in and segments of them want him to be president so they willing to pay for it over and i think that the senate i wanted bennett. It was some sort of anomaly. Agent a different from shamir. Bennett is extremely popular. He didn't even make it into the knesset election. In this time he only got five percent. I told you the polls only eleven percent of israelis think that the coalition. You're taught you think that this coalition is gonna last two years. Eleven percent of israelis agree with you. It interest all day like all. It teaches the arab party or are these groups to back out in. There's going to be new elections and that could be this week if ram the air piracy backs out. They'll have to call new elections next week. We'll be prepared by minister. And i think that they. They wanna have some consistency. They wanna have some sense of cohesion you know they were able to get rid of netanyahu. I think most people in israel quite honestly with tired of him regardless of the fact that becomes a very successful prime minister. But you know he's been in power off and on for thirty years. And i think that the there is this desire to do something different and move forward. It's zeitgeist again in situations like that. Often nuances of a person's past and whatnot are just overlooked. Let's put it that way. He's politicians only got five percent of the vote biden. But the point is he's there click shamir the p that's very popular at least among a hundreds of thousands of israelis there are thousands of but the difference is that it's not about him. It's the way politics works as such. The people of israel wanna have some sense of the building cohesion. I don't think they wanna go through another election. Given the fact that is already four. I think in the past couple years and People wanna see some sense and stability and up to. I think that for that reason because anyone dealing lights him but it's because they wanna see a government move forward and i think it will move forward and the fact that he is going to be. The only two years is at least somewhat of a safety valve in terms of people willing to to do to go along with it in the interest of national cohesion. at least you know who knows. We'll have to see what happens. But but that's my sense of it unless he really steps in it and does something so ridiculous or outrageous. And i don't think that's going to happen. The coalition is between benefit and the foul and the more left cardi than generally which is what they have the promise of getting in there in two years which i think they value and the arab which is their ally You know. I think that it's gonna tell you today's news when you're ready in why the coalition might collapse today in its relate to something that we've talked about on this show of before the family reunification law that bans palestinians and infiltrators who marry israelis from earning israeli citizenship. That currently there's a law in israel called the family reunification law that if you're a palestinian in you marry in israeli which generally is a path to citizenship. Only palestinians are barred from this path to citizenship and the palestinian Aram group has refused to back and So that could lead could lead to a collapse clarity on that law. So that say your your christian you marry. An israeli and american christian palestinians are borrowed anywhere from everybody in the world. Besides the palestinian mary's jew could get israeli citizenship without converted to judaism yet. Just through just through a numeric melt. This a specific law called the family reunification law that bars that has to be renewed every year and it needs to be renewed and the ramco. Listen said they're not gonna vote for it. And if ram back down to the coalition over this or if the right wing won the government to collapse the government could collapse. Today in there would be new. Elections will listen. I understand once. The coalition collapsed. It's bennett so then the right wing wants to see this wall continue. Which is that specifically palestinians singled out not like other groups. Are chris if somebody is rarely marries a christian or european or a frenchman or german that person automatically becomes a citizen of israel if they emigrated. Israel was eligible on the palestinians. it's forbidden whereas if you're palestinian and you married israeli you don't become a citizen. Is that if it's impossible to to its less converts to judaism. I suppose i told you the law. You can't even convert to judaism now. That's i looked into that. That's not a law. The family reunification does know that. A palestinian numeiri isreaeli then converts to judaism is still barred from coming in israeli citizen. That that's my understanding. It was debate in the knesset. Today you can look it up. okay Well i mean it's a issue. You know israel very careful about It could be the right wing. Wants the government to collapse could say like the peed if the peace coalition with the agreement that bennett bennett is just the first prime minister in a rotation so the right wing probably wants the government to collapse and would prefer perpetual Ah bennett in new elections ever. They're not gonna get better than no elections. The only five percent popularity but my but it doesn't matter they have if they call for new elections. Bennett will be prime minister until a new coalition is formed and so like just like netanyahu there before elections and they couldn't former polish. Netanyahu remained prime minister so rigorous apart bennett will remain until they new coalition as the coalition falls apart. They'll call new elections in which kill until that stop. it will be perpetual governance. in doesn't which is saying look it doesn't make sense politically. It may be happened but they have been in there for two years talking about the right. And if they if they're right conspires to to to destabilize. The government for new elections bennett ain't gonna be any more popular and he'll buy he might get in for another two year arrangement nothing. They're not going to gain anything. He's not gonna win a popular vote if he's is unpopular. She won't matter. You won't be able to get rid of him besides a new coalition so bennett. Even though he only had five percent of the vote through default will become perpetual prime minister till a new coalition through elections. They have trauma them. Pretty quickly right now. Very unlikely. I mean you saw how hard it was to get rid of netanyahu. Getting whatever right now and have. He may have been there for two years. A new election isn't gonna take two years. It's going to take probably a few months. And then they'll be back to square one. They'll be lucky if he's in it. All be the same thing that there is no path forward in israel period john coalition coalition that leaving. He's had to be done in order to get rid of benefits will be like anybody but Be of ill become anybody but bennett. In the coalition will require people that don't agree with each other forming a coalition already. Wasn't purpose of getting rid of bennett. They already did that to get rid of netanyahu. Look we don't you. And i don't know what what will happen but i don't think that i don't think at the end of the day that makes sense politically. The anybody left right center. I'm so worried. I'm you have faith in. You have faith that somehow this coalition government's going last for two years. I told you only eleven percent of israelis agree with you. We'll say i mean. That's i don't know which sat on what paul you're looking at but i think most israelis don't want to see another instance a continuation of this instability with constant elections. You know for the interest of the nation that's why the perez Shamir government work. Because people would tie of that. I mean there was some similar dynamic back then. I know that should that they were both heads of major. Parties and bennett is in but nevertheless there was a sense especially after the assassination of issaquah being that they wanted to have stability so they had a national unity government. I mean look at it. I mean ben. Gordon had a national unity government for a while and the smell of fesser qatar saying there is no stability in this kind of what me and you are agreeing upon within the current framework of the israeli governmental. Same within the policy is no possibility. Okay they need some sort of a new constitutional mean they don't even have a constitutionally but they actually need some sort of a constitutional convention to completely rework the political system in within the current system there in possibility of stability. That's and that's my electric of. I mean you're talking about amber parlementary system modeled after action british parliamentary system. I wonder how sincere to well. That's right they don't have a house of lords but they do over ceremonial president I don't i mean. I do agree that i mean get away. The american system is a better system with a strong president executive balanced by two other branches of government. And these instances states. But you know it depends most most countries in the world. I think have more of a british style parliamentary system. not just israel. I mean that's that's kind of the standard system in most european countries and prevalent force. Israel doesn't have constitution like if it's jordan arab countries that are constitutional mark monitor catchy alone have prostituted factual israel's supposed to have a constitution like they did the basic loves it was under the provisions that eventually they would form a constitution and revolted. So it's like a constitution. But that's what i'd be proposing saying. Yes the system. Israel's was supposed to be temporary system till they developed a constitution and much measures. They probably should be calling for in. Great britain doesn't have a constitution doesn't have israel was supposed to have when they made the basic laws and temporary to create a constitution. They never accomplished all right. Fair enough. what else is new Look at michigan semitism and with the In a we talked about the election of course. But what's going on in the jewish world. I mean actually boycotted the zim shipping. I think they didn't oakland california new so that the protests university of michigan had as pressure. But i don't. I don't think there's been as eds But missing they had there's a company called z. I m that is is isreaeli international shipping in oakland california. They actually black the ports and convinced the union not on loaded and the had protest in new york also had such problems so they just have office here in like seventy five people outside and protested for an hour but lay in in my area. The there hasn't really been noticeable increase in anti-semitism in the universities and the public statements In terms of the violence of illegal has she tischler. I think he got the new palestinian bill. Have back you know. We'll see the city council elections coming up. We'll see maybe he wins the democratic nominee in ends up Coming onto city council but like la. I think violence amongst the jews increasing in some areas. It hasn't been the case here in metro detroit. I think it's unlikely. The dynamics that there would be that kind of violence against the jews in detroit. So it's more just a question. Politically andy levin. Our local congressman Decide to back. Ilhan omar inner statement to yearly that. They had the twenty. The jewish congressman that Stood up in wanted. Ilan omer to clarify her statement about like is comparing israel to a massive place and andy levin agreed with her. that That you know these forcing her to clarify is essentially racist and islamaphobia that even if you disagree with her this force you to clarify and now he is being Stopping semitism as god forbid. They're gonna call. Andy levin carl levin's of sauna Yo senator levin's nephew antisemite. Over defending illinois omar into but let me in terms of. That's more political usa. Be like the one point. Two billion late like The one point two billion dollar package for israel for various things and eleven has a vote and that vote might make a difference. So there's a lot of pressure about that in universities that have like video resolutions adjust the general status of you know how high we hold their head as a jew but i honestly i'm not that concerned about rising antisemitism. I like as far as i know. I haven't heard any. Jews beat up in metro detroit. I haven't heard of people's businesses beating losing a job or various things. And i'm not expecting that. It tends to come in waves usually when israel is in the news intensive depending itself against a war. Like i did about a month ago. When his you know another attempted genocide in israel you get all the vicious haters from both the left and the right and it's more left that right these days crawl out from under the woodwork and start to agitate against israel and against us and then wants over they go back underground And i think that's what's happened. You know so you know. The that hasn't changed airing of that phenomena. Back in the day i mean. Is you know going back in the seventies. Israel's war get them all come out is and it's the same general unholy coalition between israel's enemies like her models or an arab country coalesced with leftist around the world You do have right now. Great criticism against your your good friend Your congresswoman to laid and omar and the so-called squad formed eleven for one of the most famous jewish families have been like one hundred years in michigan dominate. Carl levin was one of the most senior ranking senators You know his uncle is Disagreeing with you in. And he's stepping out. He's going hunting or employees. Why does he want to boycott. Israel supporting wants to boycott israel but But but what does. It's about them for because leftist in. He's probably his support Multicultural immigrant america in feels that defending it has to deal with the defending phobia or dark skinned Multicultural burqa. he'd by support. His own. people mean there's nothing that doesn't support via supporting his voicing. The opinion of the is warning jews in this area. So ag- you as someone. That's interested advocating for israel to sosa n eleven majority advocating for the greater in his district or the non. Jews who live in his district in advocating for israel goes against that where his uncle carl levin obviously was probably did more for israel he what he was the head of the ways and means committee. Most of the money that went through to israel was done through carl levin another nephews gone gone bad you you say he went bad. But your that's your opinion. Who cares about israel because yeah now they're that you're the guy. He lost the frank. So i mean barney frank line. We didn't we did disagree on that biography. What if he was in office today he would probably be similar. Oh i don't think you'd be fragrance inside. No i disagree because he's decades older. We're saying if she was decades young. I don't think it'd be we'd be zayn. Does a lot of people on the left are levin and apparently a lot of the survey then. i mean. we didn't talk about the democrats. I guess the most jews in greater detroit are anti israel. Now i mean intake there does not pro israel. They care the they're not saying that they want to be anti israel but they don't reload this was in the defacto say napping pro israel as being anti israel. They they'd be actively anti-israel in in an overt sense. But if they're supporting a jew hater and an anti israel activists like their anti israel in the defacto sense rhetoric using their supporting omar. Because they feel like maybe people like you are picking on her because she's muslim and has dark skin even anti israel absolutely upset she doesn't i israel blood libellous lie notes were and eleven loves in mature hindi levin those who are important for him because they haven't genocidal attitude toward the end of the state of israel they want to see every jewish man woman and child in israel murdered that. I think that's what he's saying. The one i think she's moslem they are very. There are plenty of muslims in this country. Who do not support her position. I'm sure occurred. Scenario andy levin would stand up to you to protect your on homer. And he's protecting jew hating per european is but he end up to protect her against people like you. It's not my opinion by new construction standing up for civically against people like you against movie. Because i'm calling people like andy. Levin is amazing. My i built. There's nothing to do with muslims. Rams i know andy levin sandy levin standing up to you the reason is because people like you because he's a paving jew. You claim your reason for his intention. But he's like no he's necessarily picking on her as i don't like spending art to send defensor against you. Yeah he's not a claim that because i don't go step to the left and zig heil to her points of view. I have something against muslims. Or i don't like somebody because of their skin color. That is a vicious goddamn lie and he is sick if he thinks that. Okay this inter jewish balance. Where you in. Andy lebanon getting in a fight over your opinion about illinois Opinion about ill owner and he's willing to stand up to you stands up for her policies. My opinion against her is because of her policies not because of her ethnic background relevant. She'll get one vote on whether to give more money to israel or not but what she thinks about. Israel is basically. It's very fellow guessing very relevant. Israel's based we get one vote in whether to go no no no. it's very dove. It is very relevant because she combined with talib and my own congresswoman here at boston. Yana presley and others are basically taking over the democratic party so it is every bit relevant given to think that most people in this area that are voting these elections. Don't really care about us policy in israel and saying as a us congressperson more. You're like old. There's only really one vote that they're going to get. It's going to make a difference on israel and that's going to be the funding of illinois homer and your congresswoman vote against funding for israel may and eleven votes for maybe he votes against it. Every jordan makes native for his constituents now if he is supporting a congress person who wants to cut aid to israel and one who is combined with others who are likewise of that opinion and who are really taking over to a certain degree. I would argue the democratic party including the existing administration. Then he is. He's supporting the destruction of israel. And he's i would argue a self. Aiding jew is nothing to do with omar's ethnic background. I couldn't care less about her ethnic background and for for you to suggest for him to suggest that i have something against anyone because of that is a vicious lie and a piece of agitprop communist propaganda. I might add this ops s and by the way now that we're on the subject this whole business of attorney. General merit garland coming out and saying the biggest problem facing this country. Right now is white supremacy. What does he really saying. He's saying anybody who supported trump. that's what he's saying. The white supremacy is there. It's always been there. it's not. I don't think it's any more now than it's ever been and it's something that's been condemned by everybody. It's a fringe thinkers but for him to try that out at a time like this and ask people to turn in their relatives if they think they might not have an opinion or something. That's what they did in nazi germany. This vicious this is ugly and santa american something to do with the there isn't a major pro. White supremacy is always a problem. But it's it's it's way down the list in terms of the real problems countries facing right now and it does not describe the most trump supporters. In fact i would suggest in in a way that the more supremacist attitude is found in the so called critical race theory. Who focused on this obsessive identification of people based on race and ripping people apart and dividing the country up. That's the problem if you wanna take a look at race problems so some fringe nuts on under a rock somewhere. Who part of some weird white. Supremacist cult we understand who they are and they should be looked at. But that's not that's not mainstream. That's like that's not suddenly becoming like the acts like this is some crisis that needs the whole country needs to mobilize. That's that's this is. This is just agitprop. This is dividing interesting dynamics of what's gonna happen politically in this area. How of because Any levin is the congressmen the district. Right now that's adjacent to where most useless that jews and eleven represents not too many jews the majority of the jews living hayley stevens district who ran against my friend Epstein was the coordinator of trump for michigan as republican. Mind into the jewish community in it tends but decided finishing layout layout the politics jewish community here in metro detroit unequivocally opposed lena epstein in favor of hayley stevens so if there's going to be district let me finish explaining something So there's gonna be redistricting because there were elections in in so it looks like they're gonna re district The districts and so andy levin should he run will be in primary against hayley stevens and will no longer be representing The area that doesn't have too many jews in his multicultural a'democratic but he will now be to run directly against hayley stevens in the area where tens of thousands of of jews metro detroit live and yes extremely likely that the organized jewish community will agree with charles and will back stevens over eleven in the primary over israel. But currently right now. Dr. levin is in the district. Were too many jews and no one in his district. Really cares that much about Your the issue does on why. I'm not saying he's he. He is a multicultural area. He represents you know. Like the uae and unions and a lot of african americans and arabs and it He probably does politically. It's good for him. Electorally to stand up for illinois owners no weekly like these are on found unfair attacks but because of the redistricting in the next election he will be democratic primary with in the jewish district. Do you ever win. Likely to become the congress area here will majority agree with charles. Thanks what. I'm glad that in two thousand we'll see next year. Yeah i hope we take. They'll be next unions interesting. I mean deflate rashida delayed. There's only like one percent of liking hayley stevens like fifteen percent of the electorate is jewish area like one percent of the electorate may be any leads. Three percent of the electorate is jewish. And so it's gonna be re district in bardon interesting brandon. Detroit's jews are not. I don't know if the same thing is happening in your area and also. I think because my area boston you know. I think that that safe to say that in my area of boston just like greater detroit majority of jews remain pro israel even if the liberal doesn't matter liberal conservative pro israel s johnson hayley stevens presley's congresswoman anyways presley is my congresswoman. But she doesn't she represent. i mean. i live in the city of boston. I don't live in the jewish neighborhood but percent of the electorate you're so you're saying presley is not the congresswoman of the district that includes the majority of jews area where you move not having armed with the majority of jews that's right. She's an if she was in the area that included jury you probably would not be elected with positions that the redistricting makes a big deal in this area. And that's why compared to that. I don't know if you're going through redistricting there in if they realized into overlap presley's area with the major jewish community the jewish. But in the air you live. The jewish community probably has close to know power within the democratic primary process to get rid of her just like here in michigan that the jewish community has basically no power to defeat laban election. That's right same dynamic. You're absolutely right. And i mean just again. It sounds to me. Like just to reiterate here. The jewish community boston just like the jewish new detroit which is liberal is predominantly and i would even suggest largely overwhelmingly pro israel and that sounds like hayley stevens. Who's not jewish is is pro israel and away way yeah and is supported by the jewish community among others and she's probably liberal to which is fine but the point is that this guy this guy Eleven is not in the mainstream of judaism. He is citing with anti jewish and anti israel. Click because they aren't disparate proper. My mother was partners of the same law firm. She's retired but when count retired he became a partner at his uncle. Eleven levin is about as meaning. It won't be as as you could get. They was good. Americans disguise his son now. All the sudden isn't in the main. I guess not mean he's from the dine movement where saying like he was what was made obviously went bad at some point because thinks mushrooming he. It was the if you find a way out our vay. It's just a natural trend of people like him that the that the epic spoiled silver spoon in his mouth. Rich when you're putting on it is necessary that they were like like like aoc and other people who it is a classic profile. He grew cuddling. You probably didn't even now most of his friends that he was jewish. He profusely somewhat integrated african american friends. Things like the union. The jewish shoes were more about supporting the and multicultural. aggression like. don't think most Eleven he still following like the uae integration. It's only it's only israel that And i also don't think the most african americans generally following policy the. I think that most african americans are anti israel. I don't think office basically off the ua that any enrich his union avenue backing. I am african american. I wonder if his anti israel thing is probably not because he thinks it's i think the anti israel acts appropriate real israel people who wanna cut aid to israel. That's aunt supportive. He's just too fancy. People like do have mean you're in mich- ordering pedal morning in young get some palestinian kid. I stood up for the palestinian kit against. Doesn't make me anti israel yet on this merrill with you because that's what you're saying you're insist on that. He's anti israel for against people like you attacking them. Yes no every say like i wanna go. I don't like the way you're talking about. Ilhan omar doesn't make me to israel not liking the way that you talk and you know what i don't wanna go back in this merry garard. We've got over it. I will do it briefly. Going to change the subject okay. My opposition to rely on omar is not because of ethnic backward and he thinks it is. It's a damn lie it's a it's a blood libel and it's vicious. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with her public policies. Which are anti israel and that if he thinks criticizing omar's because of their ethnic background he's he's demented is nothing to do with that. That's an attack on jews. It has to do with her. Anti jewish and anti israel attitudes period nothing to do with her background and most certainly most african americans. I wouldn't even think of pretty. Good percentage of arabs are not anti israel and i don't think that's why he is side for i don't think he's signing israel anti israel and not anti israelis pros for de facto anti israel. If he's citing them no is saying that he and say he just standing up for not standing up for her opinions on israeli state airbag attack because of her policies which are anti israel was even. If you're right about what she thinks about israel he's saying yes as a jew i will stand up for her against you because she has a right to be anti israel. Even if i'm look i'm gonna defender. She has a right to the anti israel. Look at adolf. Hitler was elected in. Her district has a right to serve because he's elected. That doesn't mean. I'm going to support them. And he is when he the agree before aggressive policies besides for her positions on israel to power the unions he came to power on aggressive of platform. That has anything about her present controversy in congress about his statements about israel and comparing israel to the taliban has he criticized that has he come out publicly and talk about the said. The defender of buzzy did he criticizes that no. He's right ending his anti israel. That's pro israel white you said because he's refusing to attack in he he's anti israel i don't i don't know i walked down the street and i see someone eating up palestinian anti israeli activist. God forbid and stop the person from beating up the palestinians that make me anti-israel no but if that's things that what he's doing with a few but by supporting his her public policy does he's not immune to personally if she's i don't wanna hear her head damage to me is i would defend her. As a person of a her husband is right mean very little financial policy because ninety percent of issues. he's in the same progress of camping. He like they're both basically union back. Canada that this one issue he rbis as a low spas. Unions are way more important than than by the pro union people who are pro israel also most of the unions pro israel i would ask the unions. Position is unless it just demand that he turned against o. Marcus her position on doesn't mean that he agrees. Before bishop position on israel he should come out and vigorously condemn. We should do that as an anti-semite messy urging anti-semite if you don't condemning anti-semites them sorry. He is lying. Who talks with immortal. Jar and richard sir says the man who talks with richard spent vigorously you saying that he actively supports her and he has endorsed her supports her as a person in gaza polack. He has as a person who has progressive agenda. Adding visita has supported her as a politician bad ninety percent of their agendas progressives the same but he has to come out with that ten percent and condemn it or does he have to. He doesn't have you calling upon him l. under saying he's a bad june as he does there or he's anti israel unless he does i s i am and if he has any conscience he would do that because she is she and her not just for but her crowd her squad as they call it our anti israel and they are wielding considerable influence in the democratic party. And yeah he could come up. You can agree with our wishes. But you know i mean the fact that this is a big. But she's gonna say this guy charles's attacking me to work together on the unions and police reform. If you don't defend me against charles. I don't know what you mean by that but i just if illinois o'mara says the same logic that you're saying is like these guys. Are you choosing me of being anti semi. You know me you know me. I'm not anti need you to defend me. So that's what. Andy levin doing great together on various amounts of issue is she needs jews to come out in supporter in so andy levin step forward i will stand up for and he should have done it in the context that he does not agree with and condemns her israel policies. And he didn't do that diddy. no i'm not. i'm not as daddy. I'm not defending him. I i if there's going to support a candidate for office and they take a position that you disagree with. You have to put that out there and make that known that you don't support that particular thing you don't just goosestep along and say oh. I support this person. And you don't lie and say that anyone who disagrees with me has something legalize sent so that he's saying the houses the liar. She is not that that's what he's saying he's saying he knows the woman and jews non anti-semites patients by saying that he's bending or because he thinks people have really he thinks he's an anti semite. He is from front of the most famous jewish families. In all of america be standing up and saying she's not an anti semite and you also said that she feels that she's being attacked because of her ethnic background by jews which is a terrible whereas lama fled. That people are demanding that she clarify is essentially islamic finishing. That's eleven like you demanding. The stuff is basically black and muslim. And that's what. I think that's aggressive. But that's what. Andy levin and he said that he is connecticut blood libel against hugging her. Because she's muslim that's and that's why he's standing up. Defenders is an anti semite. He knows her as divisive. And it's vicious lie and she has made her position quite clearly known about israel and even so even to a degree about jews. I may add and he has you know the fact that he's he's doing disagrees with us. The point of what he's saying he's a jew from one of the most prominent jewish families in all his razi standing up and saying traumas wrong. This year's list is raising the legacy of his own family by not publicly saint. That's up to what father who think still his uncle who still live. His father passed away his ankle. Say i don't know if he's comment on it. But i wonder i'd like it'd be interesting of carl levin agrees with you. I've just grassing the legacy of his own family. I've got you he. He doesn't think of what you bet. You don't speak on behalf of your ladies. You're right to say he's disgracing or his family's right to stay. If carole evans alive is that his right to say whether his nephew msa to hold it against him if he doesn't have family here so maybe he doesn't want to fine. But i am not related to these people that i can make our opinion on. I'm really he is not condemning. An agenda that seeks to destroy the state of israel. It speaks for itself. She says that doesn't mean that she's personally and semite. Even though i think she is but either way her actions her advocacy is de facto anti israel and as such. I would argue antisemitic and the fact that he wants to. He doesn't wanna come come on condemned that and then he phrases it that we have something against her because of her ethnic background. Not only is he a coward for not coming out and criticizing her publicly for that. Assuming he's also not anti israel which i don't but to add that smear on top of it is really a disgrace and it's vicious. Let's talk about something stirred. What else he covid mate. Kingso a big issue michigan. We had the lowest case count in over year. Only one hundred fifty cases restrictions are about to be a completely removed there might be you'll flare ups or Variants in the usa. It's going to be interesting what happens. What has happening on the street out there. I mean people. Taken off the mass. There's lots of people going to restaurants again what's going on. Yes so restaurants reopen. I think you could even go endorse now. The local synagogues now have went back. I'm not sure if they get rid of social distancing but the but you can now go into almost all of the local or modern orthodox snake eggs without a mask in without. I think even without social distancing requirements as per the out on the street people doing it i mean. Are people going into the restaurants now without the mass of a walking. How many mass. These seen i was with president trump and i was disappointed in president trump when he did found through. The i was hoping social distancing would last after nineteen. But you so you. I'm asking what you found around us here. That's a lot of stores that sell have policies. That mask required that now. The government does not require stores to have a mask requirement policies but generally the majority of stores do still have a mask requirements and people. Maybe you're on the street. Maybe like twenty. Five percent of people are still wearing. Masks and social distancing is at some level effective But less than like as. I would mind if i think. Social distancing is generally a good thing like people deserve our private germs. Like i remember yeah. People always used to cough all over me and and that's a good thing. I'm i've never been comfortable like with tight. Crowds and and i don't think we need go back to handshakes to me. There's some benefit to protecting your yourself from from all sorts of germs. However i think that in my neck of the woods which is boston the It's kind of a mixed thing. I see people without the mask in store. I see clerks in the store without the mass at seen people in the restaurants without the mask. But i've also seen people still walking around with double masks outside long. I think it has a lot to do with the individuals comfort level Store policy mincing no longer north enforcing doesn't amass date but some stores duke. Still the policy stores do most would say it's optional and they've they suggest that if you're vaccinated wear it of course they can't ask. That been shouldn't ask that because that's a personal. But most most businesses in massachusetts have made it optional. I haven't seen anyone. That's still absolutely mandates. It i think that for good reason thing like hospitals and nursing homes mandated insurance but most regular businesses that are open to the public on. Not at this point. And i would say that the common down the masks that is and i see less it as time goes on in his people feel more competent My own personal doctor at mass general hospital who tends to think like i think has said that. She thinks that there's going to be a group of people including patients who are never going to take off the mask and who's going to fully emerge into society always going to be for the rest of their lives gonna be in a state of semi isolation and i think that unless you have a a serious preexisting condition Oil you're you're over eighty then. It seems to me that that is not is more. That's more psychological and maybe political than it is scientific. That's my pin. People should probably foll- local case. Count numbers if you have more even if you're fully vaccinated in the case count. An infection rate is quite low. You're a still keep social distance of the case to count starts going up. She will probably go back to mask and we got ten minutes. We should to the g seven in putin biden. And i would say that putin probably won on almost all accounts even though the. Us media is tied to that somehow portray it likley biden. Having the upper hand is biden. Obviously i mean look. I'm i don't want us to get in trouble with the answer but to me. It's obvious that he is dealing with a an increasing level of dementia. He is a dementia. Is i can speak to this. My father had dementia. It is a progressive disease. It doesn't get better. It gets worse and worse and he just seemed to be in intermediate stages of it at this point in his life. I think everyone knew that. In a way as president trump was on fox news yesterday hannity. It's not aging. Like there is a sizable you know. Ten twenty percent of elderly people who get dementia like dementia comes with age minority feral apl. Who are elderly. They get the dementia and there are many. Although who don't in fact. I think most of them but i think he does and You know i suppose. Sort of like tally bennett. To bring things back to israel. He's not popular. Most people don't think he is fit to be prime minister but they put him in there because they want to defeat. Netanyahu need i say more anyway jovan. I want kind of wrap it up. Because i want to make sure that the show will download properly to rumble and gab. And mines and bitch shoot and all of these other people to carry the show now but they tend to get finicky. If i go onto it doesn't it doesn't download so won't share your thoughts you up to in terms of broadcasting these days when you have coming up. I'm interviewing actually later this afternoon. A local senior hurry christian disciple who Actually ran for congress like he tried to run even against jerry peters petersburg for senate he wasn't Successful and interesting character is a professor of writing but but he's been You know he became a r krishnan decades ago and he is the one who convinced me to become a vegetarian. When i went to the local is kong temple. He was one of the first people. I spoke to and we had tens of hours of conversations mostly about the ethics of a meeting. So i'm going to be talking to and we're i included him. I was part of the local interfaith organization with actually a female. Rabbi in detroit in. I ended up being able to include him in it and then he became pretty prominent in interfaith and he's in lansing You're the capital of michigan. And he started his own interfaith network. There's an interview him on my channel in an hour at three about the interfaith end cow protection as he advocates for not forcing everybody to be a vegetarian but just generally The at your the ethics our. But my behind the of vegetarianism or or why and honestly when i Became vegetarian really convinced. Me that It's probably not such a good idea to kill the cow. Oughta rabbis agree with me. And saying that i agree that judaism has specific protections uniquely for the cow because the cow rise a benevolent men. Will that gives. Its milk to us and i have nothing in return. So you'll kosher says you just can't eat milk and meat together out of some respect for the cow but the current state of mass slaughter and we know in europe Most jews rarely had beef or or meet tillerson at most. The toddler talks about late. Most have just having meat on that today. Then as opposed the current your average porno sin if beef two or three times you could be homeless and poor instill beef two or three times a day in god largely in agreement about being against industrial slaughter. I am so sorry. I caught and i'm having on a catholic. Priest is just read the book about his own experiences with excesses them and the existence of demons in the world and their possession of people and how seen nece can hebrew and the sages phenomenon is hollywood exist. And i have to say that i personally never really thought much about this until maybe recent years when i started to think i'm having some things going on i'll be getting into that with with the priest whereas okay are you going crazy or is it is around and if you are careful in fact i've been plugging your book. Sometimes in conversations related to topix about the nature of hatred or the nature of evil in new zealanders debate on the nature of evil and to debate on the nature of hatred and in late and we discussed that with your book is at this added element that causes it in say like. Is it that we don't fight the eight sahara. We don't fight the evil inclination in the spirits that are always there therefore enter it in. You know certain it that new said that people are naturally good and it's not that people do bad things as the people don't protect ourself against these spirits entering his everett's interest in your book. It was just a pamphlet and was able to get into these metaphysical type. That will definitely be looking forward to that. And i don't mention your book even times over the last few shared that my and horton topic to understand like what causes. Not just other people that you disagree with To do bad things will cause me myself to do bad things and act in a different way. And if you're saying well maybe it's fierce. Maybe be well. That's the question and starting to actually have some. You know things that make me. Think it is and i'll get into that my interview by the way. Thank you for mentioning my book traditionally. So that's what. But that's maybe what jews believed even metaphysically or is the sahara you or is the sahara horror element that causes you to do bad things now as you obviously body and limbs do bad things. It's us the did it but was the cause of it me or was the caused the combinator lament the world deals with this question always has and it. It doesn't absolve the individual of allowing something an evil influence. Not only to take take over them but then manifest itself in them that is part of a will. So it's not like. I'm saying you're free unclear because this isn't your trumping able and it's something outside if the rabbi says one hundred percent of his evil evil spirits that enter the person who still is legally a he has the moral. And that's not no might be less like the intent to sarah's new crime without ten thousands more punishment than someone who did a without under the individual is responsible because it's the individual who allows that he will spirit of the degree it happens. What about the case. In france like yo save with that Mainland jewish community pick concerned that that guy who smoke marijuana or said spirits that the french court let him off for forbid killing the elderly jewish woman. And i was wrong because you're responsible his crime and he left at spirit in however it happened anyway. So we'll talk next week and as always wanna thank you joining great things. All right take care.

israel andy levin bennett hayley stevens shamir netanyahu carl levin detroit omar charles levin charles moskowitz naphtali bennett naftali bennett biden mordecai qatar israeli government
The Left, Right & Center Midterms Special

Left, Right & Center

1:03:25 hr | 3 years ago

The Left, Right & Center Midterms Special

"Support comes from UCLA extension. Classes are available on campus and online with weekend and evening courses to fit busy lives in role for winter today at UCLA extension dot EDU slash KCRW and roll now and save up to ten percent classes start January seventh as the holidays approach supporting KCRW might slip off your to do list. So try this picture the white sand beaches of Los Cabos, Mexico. Explore majestic coral reefs in a glittering see dine out in the historic colonial district and ring in the new year from the beachfront luxury of the viceroy. It's KCRW's viceroy Los Cabos ultimate New Year's Eve getaway. Sweeps. Donate today to be entered to win your ticket to paradise sweeps. Ends November thirteenth so do it. Now at KCRW dot com slash join from KCRW. This is left right and center. Welcome to a special live edition of left right and center, presented by the town, all in midtown Manhattan. As always left, right and center is your civilized yet provocative antidote. The Celtics Indian bubbles that dominate political debate. I'm Josh barrow, your host your center and business columnist at New York magazine on the right is rich Lowry editor of national review on the left is Ana Marie Cox, host of with friends like these and columnist for scifis fan girls. And please join me in welcoming our first to special guests, Steve Kornacki is national political correspondent for NBC news and MSNBC and author of the new book the reading the blue and a stood Herndon is a national politics reporter for the New York Times. Welcome. So there was some big news today Wednesday. You may have seen it the president fired. The attorney general we will get to that in the second half of this show. But I there was also some pretty big news yesterday. You may recall there was an election six or seven news cycles ago. Democrats have retaken the majority in the house of representatives, but they have lost seats in the Senate Democrats will end up with something on the order of two hundred thirty seats in the house and maybe forty six or forty seven seats in the Senate. Let's start with the house. Steve can you give us the overview of how Democrats pull this off? It looks like sort of a revenge of the suburbs story. Yeah. That's the main sort of story for the Democrats is you you take these districts in metro, areas suburbs. They tend to be higher income higher share of college graduates of white collar professionals their districts that already didn't like Donald Trump. And a lot of cases a lot of cases they voted for Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen but they also reelected their local Republican member of congress. Two years into the Trump era, those same voters seemed to be saying, okay. Our problem is not just with Trump. Our problem is with anybody who has the Republican party label that Donald Trump has. And so there's a total of twenty five districts out there in the country coming in the last night that were represented by Republicans, but that voted for Hillary Clinton were still waiting on results from California. But the overwhelming share of those districts have now gone to the Democrats. So that's that's the main component of it. The second component is Democrats did make some inroads back into we'd call Trump country places that Trump had one in two thousand sixteen in most cases, these are districts, you wanna think by single digits their districts that had voted for Barack Obama before Donald Trump. So with a couple exceptions out there. But generally, you know, it was the Clinton districts, plus the ones that Trump one single digits or so I found a remarkable because basically Democrats hit the about the overall Mark that the models were expecting like at five thirty eight with the New York Times polling suggested. But it looked like there. For certain places. They underperformed in other places where they over performed. And particularly it looked like they did really well in metro areas, including in some where the president had done fairly. Well, you know, it looks like they may Democrats might pick up a seat in Salt Lake City. They picked up a seat that's based in Charleston, South Carolina, one in Oklahoma City. And I want you to talk about there's a district well outside Chicago, Illinois fourteenth district that was Dennis Hastert old district. And while the Chicago area had been strong for Hillary Clinton. This is an sexually Republican district. And it's a district that Trump won. And this is one of these places. I know you were on the ground there some where really you could feel this late momentum. And it really did pay off in terms of a win for Democrats yet. These are one that the district's that didn't Democrats had as a target, but not as necessarily as part of that I hear the Clinton one districts where they thought we have to win in order to flip the house. This is part of that second or third tier? But what happened out there is you had a candidate in Lauren Underwood. I got on the ground early and was able to beat six challenges in the primary but opinions a. Thirty-one-year-old black woman in overwhelmingly white district is from there, but initially had some resistance from the from the party saying, I don't know if that person can win the air, but you the national media that descendant there, and the amount of energy that popped up in these places of the grassroots campaigns the coalitions that really mobilize to try to oust of Randy Khokar in down. There really is what made this happen. And so you have last night, the someone who was not looked at for the party initially, someone who maybe more surprising demographic than what that district looked like still come away with the victory, partly because those voters are really repudiating Trump in those metro suburbs, it rich, it kind of looks like there's a conscious choice, the president made going into this, which is that he identified a portion of the country that was core to his electoral math that was core to the Senate map, which we'll talk about a little bit later. And so he ends up doing rallies in places like Elko, Nevada. Cape Girardeau, Missouri. And the problem is that if you divide the country up that way, he ends up losing a lot of these districts kind of looks like he came up with a plan that was almost designed to result in a loss of the house on the house side and reminded of the post-election statement of great old Aaron Senator mo- udall who said after one election. It didn't go as way the voters have spoken the bastards. Look this election where we just see deepening the divide geographic class education that we saw in two thousand sixteen but even more so and what really happened in the house races. Last night was forecast by what happened in the Virginia. Gubernatorial race last year where you had a Republican Ed Gillespie who knew Trump was not playing. Well in Virginia did everything he could distance himself from Trump's that. I know the guy had never met them. And it just didn't matter because suburban voters will willing to crawl over broken glass to vote against Ed Gillespie like considered fine, upstanding, Republican to send a message to Donald Trump. They didn't care how much separation he tried to get. And that's what we saw last night. Republicans have lost for the time being the country club. They have lost suburban women. And I think for Trump the path is still open and twenty twenty to repeat what? He didn't 2016 he has his coalition is still there. It's just not a majority coalition, and what's require kind of a very delicately trotting the same electoral college path he did in two thousand sixteen on do you see any lessons here for Democrats in terms of where they won how they won why they won that. They can take into future elections. Well, I mean, yeah, I think the lesson is they they continue to be the party that the most get bits the most votes in the country. Well, you have didn't work in two thousand sixteen. The only thing that in some ways twenty eighteen a sequel to two thousand sixteen in like all sequels, they were higher stakes and a lot more blood. And then people people feel really strongly about this. And I think you did have a tendency to see votes get run up in the places that were the safest, and that is a problem for Democrats. It's a it's a democratic problem. More than anything else. I also think it's sort of interesting, this suburbs urban areas versus rural areas, the deepening of the divide. There is is important in. Maybe a problem that we should be thinking about as a country because they seem to have I believe I mean, Steve might he's our numbers guy might know better. But they they got further apart right in terms of voting for Republicans and Democrats the ratios there. So I what I see in this country is Blue's getting bluer and reds getting redder. I will say I want to say that the blue blue not because they got more left. They just they were just more Democrats that one they Democrats are very I think wise in letting the districts choose their candidates. I mean, you had a wide array of ideological diversity in the democratic candidates that you did not see among Republicans. Steve do you skinny patterns there? In terms of candidate choices that either helped Democrats over former underperform there's been a bit of an argument today about was it a bad night for the progressive left, and you can certainly identify certain candidates like Karen Eastman, who was nominated in Omaha lost pretty badly. Katie porter and Orange County is trailing. Although we don't have all the the votes in yet from California is that fair to look at that and say that in some districts Democrats went too far to the left and lost. Or is it that they did that in districts that we're reaches anyway. And so they would lost either way. Yeah. I'm hesitant to draw sweeping conclusions there. I mean, I look at some of the more sort of the marquee names. Stacey Abrams in Georgia. We're going to see if the final votes candidates and provisional semester standing votes if if that ends up in a runoff situation, but she's behind right now. But she's also close, you know, she's if you go back. Four years ago in Georgia. The Democrats used what was sort of the standard playbook for the Democratic Party in the south of the modern era. Which was they went with the Michelle Nunn is sort of a brand name the daughter of a legendary conservative centrist, Democrats Sam Nunn, she staked out sort of middle of the road positions and went after sort of that sort of prototypical center, the middle of the road voter Democrats took a very different path this time look Michelle Nunn in twenty fourteen loss by eight points in the governor's race of Stacey Abrams. Does lose the margin is going to be somewhere on the order of two and a half points. So you know, there's improvement are even if there's a loss. I look at like Bedwell Rourke in Texas again, look at Texas in two thousand twelve Mitt Romney is the presidential candidate carries Texas by sixteen points. Donald Trump comes along sheds a lot of that suburban support Republicans said the margin in two thousand sixteen in Texas Republicans goes down to nine points. There's even more energy in the suburbs and a little bit more Latino energy in twenty eighteen with Bedwell Rourke, the margin goes down to three points you've gone from sixteen to three. Not winning yet. If you're a democrat, but you've gotten rid of most of that deficit you face to six years ago to point out here, especially with Stacey Abrams. She did that not by appealing to moderate voters. I mean, she changed literally she changed complexion of the Democratic Party said you were on the on the ground in Georgia for some of that. And I don't know these tend to which she appealed explicitly to moderate voters. But it looks like she ran up quite good totals in district's like Georgia six which is upscale mostly white suburban district. So it seems like she she succeeded in appealing to both minority voters and to to suburban whites in a way that got her closer than previous candidates, right? If you talked to the Abrahams campaign, they see they don't see that as a choice. Right. They say you run the candidate as authentic Lee who they are. They run the candidate. And you're kind of unapologetic about those positions. But they think that those positions, especially the ones the kind of economic populist ones are ones that appeal in the Georgia six and are ones that appeal to more voters who have more disaffected from the system. And so I think if. You if you look at I think, certainly it is a new type of playbook that you're seeing there folks like Stacey Abrams, folks, like Andrew gillum. I you know, I saw the same conversation. You're talking about about the progressive versus moderate wing, and who had the better night among the Democratic Party and the truth is that Donald Trump his popularity indoors in places like Florida in places like Ohio and places like Missouri. And the like that is a challenge for Democrats and twenty twenty it is unclear to me, whether the we have good enough results or answers last night that says progressives or moderates or the best choice there. What we do know is Donald Trump is still popular with Republicans. And so that's something they're going to have to get over at least counterintuitive that that the highest profile progressive candidates Democratic Party ran were in read a real tough swing states. Georgia, Texas, Florida, Steve's right? Maybe they would run better than more conventional Democrats. But I do think the house candidates and Nancy Pelosi. Deserve credit for staying on message. No matter what the candidates lot of the more tailored well to their districts, a little reminiscent of Rama manual when he was heading the democratic campaign in two thousand six when Democrats took back the house, and they just stayed on healthcare healthcare healthcare. No matter what and never took the bait, and what was the Republicans healthcare healthcare healthcare. I mean, they were made it sound like tailored to the district. I mean, they were responding to the desires of the people in the district and also I just want to also say more Stacey Abrams, which is that. She went out. She's been working in Atlanta, Georgia for a long time, and she's been registering and involving and empowering African American voters for two years, not just to get their vote as governor, but as a community organizer. I mean, she really made a difference in the state of Georgia for a generation to come. What about Republicans and how they tried to hold on? You had the president on Wednesday. Day attacking members of his own party who lost elections sort of mocking them at a press conference. And then also saying that the reason they lost. They did not embrace him enough Ottawa's pointing this out earlier. He literally used the word embrace over and over as though the candidates were supposed to literally hug him. He said that Mia love did not show him enough love, which especially funny because the votes aren't counted me loves district. She might win. And then it'd be in congress enough to work with the president again. But rich so first of all this analysis is self self-serving for the president. But I think a lot of these Republicans these districts were caught in a very tough position. It's not like hugging. The president would work for them. We saw Lena Epstein, for example, as a candidate in the eleventh district in Michigan outside Detroit. Try the hug Donald Trump as much as you can strategy. She lost by seven points. So was there a strategy available to these suburban Republicans, and how did they try to thread that needle? No, I don't think there was really a strategy available to them that could worked Barbara Comstock who lost a suburban Virginia district outside of Washington DC is probably the. One of the single most impressive members of congress. I've ever known she's hardworking. She's smart she'll knock on every last door that she can. And she did all that and lost by thirteen points. And if she embraced Donald Trump, she would have lost by twenty six points. But you know, a big some of this. You know, this is a little woulda coulda shoulda. But it definitely hurt that there are so many Republican retirements heck, even the speaker of the house quit in the middle of this thing. And just wants you have open seats. It attracts more formidable challengers in means the. The Republican who's running who's not the income is not going to raise as much money. It just tracks more attention, generally and Republicans for a year have been acting like they knew they were going to lose. And it was a little bit of a self filling prophecy. They also weren't having very good time a lot of them under Donald Trump. And they also figured even if they held the majority nothing was going to happen anyway. And that's why losing a house of congress is a big deal. Democrats will have subpoena power. We'll talk about that later. But I don't think this is as controversial as ninety four. Oh, six or twenty ten when you really had a party taken a house of congress ability to stop a president's agenda and his tracks. Because the fact of the matter there was going to be no Donald Trump congressional agenda in this next congress to speak of anyway. When that's that's the bright side. When we would talk about like Republicans trying to customize themselves to their districts and be like I'm better than from. There were five members who I tended to say, we're really good at that. And three of them held on last night. Which is John Kako represents circuits New York. Brian Fitzpatrick represents suburbs outside Philadelphia and David Val from the central valley of California and Steve. We know four of them held on because we'll hurt also hold on heard. Probably got him back. And Carlos Cabello is the fifth and he just barely lost outside Miami. And I don't know Steve you look at those candidates, and they they did something that really did build an independent profile that most other members in in the Republican conference. Couldn't what exactly is it that they did differently. Well, it's by necessity though, I mean, but but Barbara Comstock needed to do that. And she failed. Right. Well in the Carello district. There's also some very specific local factors there too. With Cuban American voters. Traditionally more loyal to the Republican party offended more specifically by Trump. So Cabello had that working in his favor. The problem Comstock had was there was there was already evidence going back to the two thousand sixteen campaign that Donald Trump had a sort of reverse energizing effect on would become stuck voters in northern Virginia. And we saw it in the 2017 gubernatorial election in Virginia the turn out just surged in northern Virginia. I think it was clear then Comstock was gonna lose the interesting thing to me looking at the results is look. Trump wasn't going to help any of the any of the Republicans in districts that Trump did terribly in in two thousand sixteen the verdict in those places has been settled when it comes to Trump for a long time. My question looking at the results last night going in was the major lines of division that were revealed in the two thousand sixteen election that got Donald Trump elected have the changed in some fundamental ways. So that when we look ahead to twenty twenty we say now, the path is kind of closed off the Donald Trump, and I was just looking at one of those road to two seventy scenarios today. I don't see much. I don't see evidence in those results last night that much. I mean, Florida I was in the air for about thirty minutes last night. And I was having deja because the polls in Florida put Gillam ahead. The early returns put Gillam head same thing for for Nelson. In the Senate race, we were looking at the same counties where where the Democrats are doing well. And then all of a sudden the same day vote came in in the Gulf Coast the retirees from the midwest. The Republican surged ahead it looked just like twenty sixteen for a minute there. I was saying is this going to spread it? The country it didn't. But Florida looks an awful lot. Like it did two years ago. One thing that could change it in Florida's the Rian franchise -ment, formerly incarcerated people they got the vote. Thanks. That's the largest one point almost one point five million. People will be the largest expansion of the franchise and fifty years, and that's an estate where elections are won in lost by handful of votes. So that could change a lot of guys say I've heard so many theories through the years about this group is going to change Florida in the last year, the story was Puerto Ricans. We're going to change Florida as a result of the hurricane. And I looked in Osceola county, for instance, where this was supposed to happen in the Democrats didn't do as well as they didn't twenty sixteen. I wanted to add something about well heard who we've mentioned it cross talk a little bit. He's a congressman in Texas who you said has been done a good job of kind of being his own, man. He also has like Beto of works best friend. So maybe that might help. Let's take a quick break. And then all of us will come back to talk about the Senate. I'll be back with rich Lowry. Ana Marie Cox, Steve Kornacki and a steady earned it. You're listening to left right and center. What do you think? Share your thoughts on today's show on our Facebook page or tweet us at L RC KCRW and download the KCRW app to listen to left right and center on demand. Support for KCRW comes from UCLA extension from business to digital tech entertainment studies to project management make this the year, you go from dreaming doing classes are available in Westwood downtown LA and Woodland Hills with weekend and evening courses to fit busy lives. Online study is also available enroll for winter today at UCLA extension dot EDU slash KCRW. Classes start January seventh. Twenty thirty eight is only two decades away. But the world might look very different then flying driverless cars a Chinese world. Order computers in your stomach or your pants an internet, Cold War broadband beam directly into your brain, robots doing everything, and we mean, everything some of these predictions are probably going to come through. But which ones and win. From New York magazine and intelligence because he's twenty thirty eight a podcast about the weird near future. In each episode. We'll talk to someone who thinks they know the ways the world will be changed in the years ahead from gene editing to climate change and geopolitics to six then we'll grow them about it to see what holds up, and what doesn't I'm David Wallace wells. I'm max read to hear these predictions subscribe to twenty thirty eight and check us out at NY MAG dot com forward slash twenty thirty eight. Welcome to the future. Back again with left right and center live at the town hall in New York City. I'm Josh barrow of New York magazine and MSNBC on the right is rich Lowry editor of national review on the left is Ana Marie Cox, host of with friends like these and columnists for scifis fan girls. We're also joined by Steve Kornacki, who is national political correspondent for NBC news and MSNBC and author of the red and the blue and stead Herndon national politics reporter for the New York Times is also with us. So Democrats had a very good night in the house did not have such a good night in the Senate rich the flip side of that strategy. I talked about earlier where the president sort of alienated the suburbs is he does seem to have managed to win quite solidly. These Senate races in Missouri, North Dakota in Indiana. And then just by Herron, Florida. Yeah. And well, three of them were pretty sizable margins and these are states where his rating was above water, and where he could really rally his base and make a difference and going to Steve's point. A little while ago. You kind of look at the map and last night, if you're Trump you're all sorts of things can happen for twenty twenty but your courage about a couple important swing states. At least swing states from two thousand sixteen Iowa Republican won the governor's mansion Ohio same thing, Florida both when the Senate race probably and the governor's mansion in North Carolina. So then you kind of if you color those in for Trump, then you're you're back to Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin Democrats did better and those places, but in these kind of states like look at Florida, and Wisconsin Florida where Ron Santa's probably one it's trench warfare. You losing the urban areas who lives in the suburbs. But you just turn out just enough rural though to win Wisconsin. Scott Walker finally goes down exact same pattern, but just a little bit off with with working class whites in the rural areas, and you lose and from this juncture again, lots of things can happen. But that's what it seems like twenty twenty. It's going to be. Like a steady. Do you have a sense of these three states where Democrats were defending red states where the polls had looked for a while? Like, it was going to be close. And then it really wasn't at all. What happened? What did we miss or was it a late break? Florida Georgia, Texas. No, I'm talking about Missouri in Anna KOTA. I mean, the reality is this was a tough map in the Senate for Democrats. And the reality is that Donald Trump is popular in these states and people like Claire mccaskill people like Joe Donnelly were always going to have a very difficult time until last night. What we see is a couple of things they did not get the necessary turnout activation of urban areas to to mimic a presidential ish coalition. And if those people didn't do that, then that means that they had to rely on their kind of individual report with these people in the kind of Joe Manchin esque way, where we don't we don't like or we like Donald Trump, but we like you and that necessarily didn't translate to these candidates. I don't think it's I don't think we can necessarily definitively say this is all cavenaugh or all something else you see John tester winning out in Montana. But we do know like we said earlier that President Trump's were poor is high in these places, and that's why he was doing those rallies in these states. That's why he was mobilising and activating that voter base. And that's why these Senate candidates on the Republican side where hewing so closely to him people like Marsha Blackburn and Ted Cruz running stand for the anthem as that's the Donald Trump playbook. I was just gonna say I mean, I think we're sort of using report with these people as you. I mean, he campaigned on on racism and fear. Like, he that's what he did in red states. Is he reminded them of these things that he didn't original in two thousand sixteen campaign? I almost feel like you're being generous to call it a strategy. I mean, he just did what he does. He went to the places where people already liked him. And he said the things that they know that he knows excite them. I mean, it's not much of a strategy that the thing I find remarkable, though, is I think this is how Trump thinks he won the whole election. But this and this seems to have he went with hard on the immigration thing. And it seems to have won him in certain places. But I mean, Steve this did this did not work in Pennsylvania. It didn't work in Michigan. It didn't work in these upper midwest states where he really thought that it that it was key to his victory. So what separates those out? What is with these parts of the Trump coalition that gave him the to seventy two win that did not show up for Republican Senate candidate? Yeah. Well, when I say, I don't see a lot of change in the electoral map that the two you just mentioned Pennsylvania and Michigan, obviously, if you look at the Trump coalition that got him there in two thousand sixteen those are the two most troubling signs last night, Pennsylvania. I think by far the most troubling sign, but Michigan is well now if you take what Trump got in two thousand sixteen subtract, Pennsylvania and Michigan he can still get to the two seventy. So the question is Wisconsin. Wisconsin's interesting to me because it's the home of more counties than any other state in the country that they call pivot counties. They went Obama two thousand eight Obama two thousand twelve also by the way. Tammy Baldwin two thousand twelve one of the most liberal members of the US Senate, and then in two thousand sixteen these twenty counties voted for Donald Trump in one thing. I was looking for last night was how many of them are going to migrate back to the Democrats. And the governor's race the answer six six twenty went back to the Democrats and the governor's race. Now. Rich was just saying a second ago, how close Wisconsin was we were looking at the results last night thinking Scott Walker was going to pull this out in Wisconsin. And then all of a sudden in my ear. They say they just found a forty five thousand absentee votes in Milwaukee county, don't or is going to get eighty five percent of them. I said, okay, I guess to Everts is going to be the governor. But that's how close Wisconsin was. And so Trump can win back six pivot counties that Scott Walker failed to carry that could be the difference in Wisconsin. If you get Wisconsin, if you hang onto Iowa, if you hang onto Ohio, if you hang on a Florida Carolina that electoral vote up in Maine could still win a game of precisely to seventy if you do. Talking to voters in these states. I mean, you cannot separate Donald Trump's win and places like Michigan or in places like Pennsylvania from Hillary Clinton. I mean, when you go to the state, I mean, I've been the Michigan five times this summer and pokes talk about what they did in 2016, even the Trump voters almost always lead with Hillary Clinton. And whether they deserve thing, whether you know, it was kind of separate question from the reality of it. And what we see in Michigan last night as a slate of almost all women Democrats winning on local levels on a statewide level, which kind of bust up that theory that some had after twenty sixteen that these people could not vote for women. This might be a case of come twenty twenty. We're looking at something saying these places wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. Let's talk about Rourke because a lot of people including me kick made kind of snarky comments about the level of national interest in better aerobics race, and that he was obviously going to lose. And he did lose. I've been saying he was going to lose by four and he lost by two and a half or something. But he he. Ran a lot better than a lot of the other Democrats who people took a lot more seriously in their Senate races. And I think it what it does say. Is that Texas has changed a lot and conceivably when Ted Cruz comes up again in two thousand twenty four and Texas has changed a little bit more and people still really dislike Ted Cruz. He could be quite vulnerable on. What were you surprised by how close he came, and what lessons do you take from that? I was not surprised I would love to be more optimistic about Texas, which is my home state going more blue. But I have to say this is an extraordinarily specific set of circumstances. Ted Cruz is uniquely repellent. As a personality, and as a politician, and I mean that both a little bit snarky but also like he played two thousand sixteen exactly wrong. Right. Like, he refused to endorse Trump at the convention. I was on the floor with the Texas delegation. Not as a member, but on floors eggs ellegation when he gave that speech in the booze were deafening people really hated that. And then and then somehow in private like in the in the back room of his campaign. He decided to go ahead and endorse Trump in this really weird kind of like, oh, I guess I as a good Republican I'm going to do this. So he alienated a bunch of Trump people. And then people who wanted to maybe look at him as a never Trump stalwart were then disappointed him to an Texas. I just think that meant that a lot of Republicans and conservatives particularly just weren't excited to vote for him. And then work is a uniquely. Yes, we can mock how much attention he got. But he got it. For a reason he's incredibly. Charismatic like in. He speaks in a language that is unlike most politicians, I love the fact that he holds his microphone like a punk rocker like it's one of the most it's a little thing. But as a performer punk rock punk rock. Right. And. And. I know I'm not a probably worse than he is a politician. He's probably better politician than he was a musician. But it's funny because he he just treats politics differently than most politicians. He treats the performance of politics differently. And I also think the people that I talked to in Texas, the Republicans I talked to in Texas who were open to voting for Rourke would not have been open to it had. They not already had a Republican Senator. So I think it's just a unique set of circumstances. I I also think Texas demographics are changing he turned. He he I think is responsible for that increase in over five hundred percent and the youth turn out in Texas. So he's going to leave a Mark. We'll just see how much of a market is. I want to talk about some places where Democrats outperformed one is in the south west where we have a very close race in Arizona. So this is not outperforming the polls the polls it had karston cinema up. But it's remarkable given Arizona's heritage as a Republican state that this we have a basically tight Senate race there. And then in Nevada where in the Senate and the governor's race, you have Democrats significantly beating their polls Steve Doocy lessons from this region of the country. What what did Democrats figure out there in the Senate that they didn't elsewhere? Yeah. Although I got to say if Mick Sally hangs on an air Zona in it looks from this vantage point, it looks slightly more likely that mic Sally is going to win in Arizona than cinema. I Sam I'm I'm surprised by that. Because I went into election day thinking that the Democrats were going to pick off Arizona, the strength of the democrat Mira cope is almost two thirds of the state the strength there that we're seeing the same day vote. The folks who showed up on election day to vote. There seemed to be a break their toured mic Sally that I wasn't necessarily expecting their Nevada. Data in terms of dean Heller just looking at the returns in this state. The problem for him was look he pulled off something close to a political miracle to get elected in the first place in two thousand twelve remember Barack Obama one Nevada by six points in two thousand twelve huge turnout or activated. The unions all of that what saved dean Heller in twenty twelve and got him elected. Was this double digit win in wash? Oh county, you know, Reno which is near his home part of the state. The question was could he replicate that in two thousand eighteen he got blown out in wash oh county. And that was basically it he took this sort of more working class part of the state did really well the first time around and just spell the pieces. And that's why he lost that one. And I want to talk about one other democrat who I think really outperformed fundamentals, and I believe there's a slide. We can pull up about this from Minnesota. If you here in the theater what we're looking at is a map of the results in Minnesota's regularly scheduled Senate election. There were two Senate elections in Minnesota this Tuesday Democrats won both of them Amy klobuchar looks like she has won by twenty four points. She's a three term incumbent on. This is your Senator Minnesota's swing state. Now, look at all that blue on that map, all those rural counties that Amy club char one. What does she get that like Claire mccaskill who won like six counties in the state of Missouri? Doesn't get why. And and why shouldn't Democrats just run her for president and try to win forty-three states? I'm serious if you can put up a map like this in Minnesota. You ought to be able to kick Trump's ass. I if I knew I would be a political consultant make a lot more money than I do. Now, I will say I think one of the things that was remarkable observing the election from my living room in Minnesota was how few ads for any candidate mentioned, the Republican or Democratic Party even Amy klobuchar is as we're all about I'm a Minnesotan. I will fight for Minnesota, and wait was very old fashioned politics. And I think that she is a she is seen as being a genuine advocate for the state. And she is as a Senator, I think that Minnesotans find it appealing that. She is a strong advocate without being a showboat or show. You know, she doesn't grandstand. Really like she her moment in the in the spotlight enduring having on hearings. It's actually rather subdued in quiet moment that he made go viral by asking her what did he asked her does she like to drink, and then he had to apologize to her Brad Cavanaugh who was so defiant on that day. It was Amy club rich, I was really struck by this. And I think it relates to this map, and how she got so many crossover votes is that the cavenaugh hearings were so bitter and people were so angry about it. And Republicans thought that they had been really treated unfairly by everyone on that committee except Amy klobuchar who I really like a lot of conservatives saying that they thought that she was the one person who behaved in an appropriate and fair manner. Even though she was pretty tough on Brad Kavanagh. She goes down easy for Republicans compared to most Democrats just be careful extrapolating from landslide state victories to what someone could do as national candidates, potentially. But look, obviously, the sweet spot is being able to energize the base. The same time you can have a reasonable affect and some appeal to the other side just very difficult to do it requires a once in a generation political talent is what Democrats had in two thousand and eight and Barack Obama. But a candidate like that doesn't come around very often. I love Amy, but she's not exactly a fireball of charisma and in Minnesota that actually works in your favor. They don't trust people who are charismatic. So. We're working nationally. Now, it's time for tweet to the week. Sometimes it only takes one hundred forty characters maybe two hundred eighty two still the spirit of the week. Steve Kornacki, what's your tweet of the week? Let's see it's. We'll run he said, Democrats and Republicans alike can take comfort in this. It could have been worse. A step on. What's your tweet mine's pretty boring? It's retiring Representative Ryan Castillo saying different people can be disgusted by different things. This one is this one such thing for me. I don't use the word discussed it lightly. But I use it to say this is part of the retiring wing of the Republican party Trump has overtaken them and they're done because because Trump said mean things about retirement about looking disgusted rich Lowry. What tweet struck you because I'm a mean-spirited conservative. I'm a fan of a certain niche of comedy, which is anti John casick comedy humor. So. I don't know who this person is. But he tweeted when it when the news came down at Mike dewine, the Republican was going to win and succeed. John casick in Ohio. Wow. Republicans flip the Ohio governor's mansion. About it. Although Mike dewine. We'll see what kind of squish Mike dewine is in a few years. Ana Marie Cox. What's your Twitter the week? It is like commentary on the press conference today from Ashley Feinberg from having ten post at my funeral. I'm going to hire someone to take a bunch of Benadryl and stand up and read off the names of everyone who has wronged me, and it will look exactly like this. My Twitter the week is from Alex shepherd who is a staff writer at the new Republic. And he says, obviously, we're two years away. But this feels like a very plausible twenty twenty outcome. And then there's an electoral map showing what Steve Kornacki described a little bit earlier, which is if you take the two thousand sixteen map, and you give Pennsylvania and Michigan to the democrat. And you give Maine's second district to the Democrats for the democrat. It's all four electoral votes from Maine. You get a map that is to sixty nine to sixty nine in an election. That is a perfect tie because decided by the house of representatives, and I think it is nearly inevitable that this is where we are headed given the news cycles that we have been to Trump Trump Winton that's narrow by the way that could be the Trump map. So it's it's almost delegations by stance. Yeah. Well, yeah. So that's definitely what's going to happen. Then. Steve Kornacki in-instead hurt, and I wanna thank you very much for joining us. Coming up. We will look at Jeff Sessions is next career steps listening to left right and center live. Join the conversation on our Facebook page or tweet us at L RC KCRW stream, all episodes of left, right and center and other great shows at KCRW dot com slash podcast. Support for KCRW comes from UCLA extension from business to digital tech entertainment studies to project management make this the year you go from dreaming to doing. Classes are available in Westwood downtown LA and Woodland Hills with weekend and evening courses to fit busy lives. Online study is also available enroll for winter today at UCLA extension dot EDU slash KCRW. Classes start January seventh. I'm more on all may there are Jews in President Trump's own family. But have his words encouraged anti-semites like the killer in Pittsburgh, some the tree of life synagogue think. So I don't believe that he literally wanted to target Jewish people in south, but he has shown time and again in time, and again that he doesn't understand the effects of his rhetoric to the point where ever you get your, pumpkin. Back again with a special live left right and center at the town hall in New York City. I'm your host Josh barrow on the right is rich Lowry editor of national review on the left is honorary Cox, host of with friends like these and columnist for scifis fan girls. And we're now joined by two of my colleagues here at New York magazine's intelligence, sir. If you're not familiar with intelligence, or well, it's the awesome website that New York recently hired me to write for I cover business. But I'm really glad to have to my plugged in politics colleagues up here from Washington on a day when there has been a pretty significant bit of post-election news Olivia Newton is our Washington correspondent covering the White House, and Jonathan Chait is our political columnist. Welcome to both of you. So President Trump fired Jeff Sessions today. There was reporting the Jeff Sessions asked if he could stay in work until Friday and was told no that he had to leave today. There is an acting attorney general his name is Matt Whitaker. He had been the chief of staff to Jeff Sessions, but he was really sort of like, the White House's man inside the DOJ and seen very much as a Trump loyalist. And we know that rod Rosenstein has been taken off his duties overseeing the Russian investigation because he did that because sessions was recused. And this new guy Whittaker apparently is not recused Olivia was this expected at the White House where you surprised when the president made this move. I was surprised by the fact that he did it today. I it was as if he was told you have to wait until after the midterms and at like midnight last night just sort of said, well, it's after the midterms I'm gonna do it. Now, he seemed was at the press conference earlier today, and he did seem sort of the resist certain darkness about him. But I wasn't expecting to leave the White House and look at my phone and see that in the ten minutes that I was gone. He had fired Jeff Sessions if it's not really in the cards day for me. So your thought is that he was planning to do this around this time. And like, you know, he was annoyed about the way people were talking about Republicans losing and asked about it today at the press conference. And he said something I thought that he'd lied initially. It went back and looked and it was kind of a remarkable case where he deflected, but she doesn't normally do. And he said something like I'll answer that question at a little bit different time, which is not proper English. True. Little bit date was a little bit different. And we all sort of went when he said that. But now not make sense. So John you did not like this move very much. No, I actually think it's the worst thing that's happened to this country since Donald Trump was elected. I honest to God do and so why what do you think is going to happen? What I why is that? As a country as a democracy. You can't come up with a law to prevent every possible abuse of power. So you need norms to fill in the gaps because you just can't write enough rules to cover every possible situation where people have power might want to abuse their power one of the norms. We have is that the department of Justice doesn't get used by the president as a weapon to just go after the people he wants to lock up and to let himself in his buddies and his friends go free. Mark Whitaker has been sitting there raising his hand saying, I know what you want to do with this department. Pick me pick me. I'll do it. He's not qualified for his job in any remotely normal sense. Like a few years ago. He was working for this patent scam company is basically their legal muscle threatening people to to back off when they were getting scammed saying, I'm a real lawyer in all mess, you up bad if you complain then his job at the department of Justice, you said the eyes and ears. You know in the Soviet Union you'd say he was a political coma. Sar would be the job of the loyalist. You put into the urban to make sure is is running the way the party wants to do and issuing a series of statements saying he wants to lock up Hillary Muller's going too far roses seen to clamp down on this investigation. Really who wouldn't have taken that meeting with the Russians at Trump Tower. I know I would everything he said was him screaming the Trump that he was the loyalists that Trump has been saying all along he wants remember Trump's conception of the department of Justice is totally into thankful to not only. It's it's designed, but the functioning of democracy, he said under Obama Obama committed all these crimes and Eric Holder, cover them all up, and that was great. I admire him for doing it. He was right to cover up those crimes because that's what the attorney general should do. I want someone like that. He literally said that to the New York Times in December of two thousand seventeen and he's been saying he. Wants also my ROY Cohn referring to one of the most famous sleaze balls in American history. So there's no mystery about what he wants out of this position. And now he's actually doing it rich does that sound about right to you. This was at the very least of vengeance. Firing. And I'm a little surprised it wasn't even more flagrantly humiliating and the tragedy for Jeff Sessions. Of course, is he was one of the first to get on board for Senator to endorse Trump and had some major role in normalising him for publicans. So this is a scorpion the fraud kind of situation or I've been reading a lot of children's books lately. Ginger mint gingerbread man in the FOX situation. I don't know what option what entre by the way, the digital Bradman really have besides running out out of the oven. Baked. But we'll see you know with. With Whittaker Muller is not an independent council. He it's not true that he literally has no oversight any oversight of him is the end of American democracy. I think the problem Trump has the obviously hates the investigation. But it's at this point is sort of unsure down -able. I mean, if if someone if he fired Muller tomorrow, he would be as soon as Democrats took over congress in January. It would be before the judiciary committee giving testimony about all of what is evidence is. So the cat is really out of the bag. And there's a reason that Trump's legal advisers told him not to do this now with sessions in a wait until the more investigation is over because now it'll play into a potential obstruction case against Trump. So that I think the competition is whether he can be constrained in such a way to. Rationally act in his own interest. Or whether he's so hates this investigation and has such a distorted view of the Justice department. He's going to do something that's very harmful to himself in the country. People if he's been fired, right? It's a little bit. Like OBI wan kanobi saying if you strike me Donald become more, powerful, possibly imagine. And really all I can do is just give cryptic advice to Luke Skywalker. We can't slice people up with light savers anymore. He's really much less powerful than ever was. It's it's like the same thing. Like, yes, he could talk about all the good times about when he was the special prosecutor really can't actually go to people say you're going to jail. Now. The the name of the game now is really molars report and all along the most important aspect of it has been a potential impeachment report. So if he's fired and can't do that report, which is probably working on as we speak. He'll go tell congress about it and it will proceed anyway, that's why I think there's no realistic irrational option for Trump besides letting him finish. And then fight it out over the findings the way any other president in the circumstance would I want lay out that I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves in that, you know, if when. The when the probe I existed if you were talking about rod Rosenstein is the person overseeing this probe you could have said, well, we'll rod Rosenstein is the guy who wrote the memo that was the pretext for Donald Trump to fire James Comey. And that would be literally true, but it would not tell you very much about the manner that Rosenstein ended up in fact overseeing the investigation, I think there's a lot of inertia inside the department of Justice and a lot of institutional norms. And I'm I'm not saying John that what you're laying out isn't going to happen. I think it might happen. Although I also think it might will not happen. I think that the president he has chosen in the past not end the Muller probe because he decided that it was going to be more costly to him to try to do that than to not try to do that. And it's not clear to me that that calculus is different. Now, just because he's picked up a couple of seats in the Senate. I mean, it doesn't even need a new attorney general confirmed if he was going to acting AG route he could've done it before when had only fifty one Senate seats or even only going to have minority. So I don't know on are you where is your freakout level between mine and Jonathan's? So in. The obi-wan-kenobi scenario. It's Adam shit Skywalker. And is like the instant power the exhaust port on the death star. Like, I'm trying to figure out like. What? Lightsabres is the indictments people. Indict Luke, Sarah, they do blow up the death star. Just I'm sorry. I'm sorry. One more second. We made bricks the limits of this argument. I did also that there is probably more humiliating way. You could have fired Jeff Sessions, which is rather to have him take his stuff out in a box. They could have taken Jeff Sessions out in a box. I do think that it is premature to say much right now because it has been hours like Olivia. Like, I mean, I lost all sense of time. To be too old to talk about. So let's the sweet spot here. So I guess Livia. What else are they bracing for inside the White House because there was this list that axios obtained that was basically what what House Republicans put together of all the things they think Democrats will try to investigate if they take the majority which now they've done. And so there were literally like one hundred items on this list, and Jonathan and I had a strange about this earlier today because I was saying, you know, well, you have to be careful not to look like the Republicans in the s and look and go down or like like you're reading from Brett Kavanagh's high school yearbook, and then Chait John Jonathan system. You will like what on this list would not look smart to investigate and look at because it's like, oh, yeah. Like all of these things are pretty good. So are they are they prepared for that? What is their strategy about the now do they understand the problem? This is going to be. They're not really big on planning like that. I think that's pretty obvious. They haven't plans anything in all the time. They've been there. I I mean, the first thing that it looks like might happen is a formal request for the president's tax returns. He dismissed this completely today when he was asked about it. He claimed again that while he's under audit. Lawyers say, I think it's the phrase that you shouldn't release tax returns, you showed his tax returns are very complicated. Nobody will understand right, which I think is a challenge. Democrats are willing to take. But this is a conversation. I've been having for months at this point with his advisors and people in the White House and the administration. Does he understand the stakes? And that was the question about the midterms seemed to see really understand what it would mean to lose control of the house or lose the Senate. And now that that's here. I'm not sure that the answer is any different than it was months ago, which was not really and even the people closest to him who are also not very. Politically skilled they don't have a lot of history and politics. They didn't seem to understand the stakes either. So I don't know how that will work when they start getting these requests and having to produce tax returns or other documents, or, you know, appear before congress alley just the other day if things go the wrong way and Democrats take the house. I'm just going to figure it out. Yeah. Mean he said that repeatedly today the press conference is like the first time he spoke besides Twitter right after the midterms, and he kept kind of going back and forth. I it was like I'm going to try really hard to get along with them. We're going to get things John even though there's no sign that that didn't happen when they had control of both chambers. And then he was going back to a well, if there's gridlock it's going to be good for me, politically, which is an astonishing thing to say out loud to other people never mind the world. It would have been worse had they had a Republicans had a thin majority. Yeah. I think at one point he said a lot of things at that. But it was an hour and twenty six minutes not that I was counting. But. He. But he was saying that it would be good for him that he has no plans to try to work in a bipartisan way if they do start investigating him. And then three minutes later five minutes later, he would say, oh, we're going to get a lot. Jim. We're gonna work together. No matter what. So it's like who the hell knows what he's really going to do. I don't know rich Republicans relationship to this to be very odd. Because the purpose of this stretchy was basically say look how terrible it is. They'll do all these investigations. And I realized that, you know, congressional investigations often generate more heat than light. It is possible to investigate a fair question and unfair way, but these are really fair questions and with the partial exception of Russian interference in the election. The choice of Republicans has been basically to not do oversight on these questions. What possible defense can there be that and shouldn't on some level, you welcome investigations into graft and cabinet departments, and that sort of thing so that he can be stopped from tarnishing the brand of your party with all of this corruption that is endemic and his administration. Well, couple of things definitely. The hurricane Maria response and Puerto Rico just for the public good and getting better and improving you'd wanna fact-based investigation into that. There's a public interest in seeing his tax returns. Which is why it was a norm before he came along to release your tax returns. But I would just say politically Republicans went through this with Clinton in the ninety s and it's really tempting and there's things you legitimately should look at but the political up side of this usually unless you find some smoking gun, and you think that Bob Moore is already onto a smoking gun. If one exists is really not high. So it'll be enervating for the administration. It'll be distracting people pay a lot of legal bills have to spend a lot of time producing documents. I'm just not I just don't think if Democrats beat Trump in two thousand twenty this major publicans been stopping you. Like, you'll only need one of them to turn up a smoking gun. Right. I mean in. That smoking gun could really I don't know how else to put it like this could be really bad for you. Yeah. I've been aware of that since late two thousand fifteen. John when you look at that menu. And that's basically what the Republicans put together as a menu for Democrats to pick from what what appeals what are you gonna order off that menu. What what would I pick? Like if I could only pick one. No, no, what's your. What are your top priorities? What should Democrats be holding hearings and pounding the table about obviously you get the tax germs? They're going to get the tax returns on day one. They may have have a legal fight. But the law is totally clear. It says you can get the tax return from any person any person, and they've used it before in the past to get it from people in the executive branch the user to get Richard Nixon's tax returns. So I don't think there's any possible leg to stand on. But Trump is going to fight on no legs to try to try to. That's that's that's number one. You know, I agree that that molars mostly handling the Russia's stuff. The hurricane response is is a pretty big issue. All the cabinet graft. I feel like those are pretty powerful political issues for Democrats to exploit and not only is there a public good interest. But I think you know, I think it helps get the message out that there's a lot of scumbags who have attached themselves to this president in use their jobs to get rich Olivia. I think I sort of wonder if one of the things that made the president feel frustrated today. Besides losing the election is a sense that he's losing control of the news cycle. And this seemed to be a thing that was happening for him in the last few weeks of the campaign as well. Like, why can't I get everyone to focus on the caravan all day every day in terms of damage from these investigations have they process the fact that you know, when when you subpoena things when you hold hearings, you gain your own megaphone, and you're able to to throw the new cycle around is the president prepared to have less control over what people talk about still. No, no procreation. I don't think he knows what it means to not be in control of both chambers. I don't think he understands he hasn't experienced it before. Right. And so I just I don't think that they're prepared for it. But one thing that I wouldn't say they have a plan. But I think that it's very clear that the president is going to be fighting any requests for his tax returns that he will be taking it as as far as he has to take it to not release them. Which makes you wonder what could possibly be in them that it's worth all the gridlock that might come of that. Answered that a few weeks ago. They didn't get the tax returns. I think the idea that there might have something quite similar in the recent return or. But if fraud committed tax fraud for years and years and years like serious fraud. It makes you wonder is there are there connections to Russia that we don't know about. I mean, it just politically it's very stupid to not release. So the doesn't the reality of what's pardon. It depends. What's in them? It might be smart enough reality. Damage can can see at the very least they show him not to be as rich as as he claims things. But I really object must subject to the idea that he's losing control of the new cycle. I mean, listen hour and twenty twenty six minutes and tell me you weren't transfixed by that it seemed at some point there'd be like a South Korean parliamentary style brawl breaking out over Jim Kostas questions. He will be the center of the political circus in this country until January twenty twenty one or twenty five. I don't think that was a plan. Right. I don't think that the president had notes prepared and an idea of what he was going to do at the press conference today. It's an it's hard. It is. Instinctual person. It's like watching something on that GIO when you're at one of those press conference, and I think that he saw an opportunity why do you call on the reporters who he tends to fight with its fight with them. And I think he saw an opportunity, and it was quite successful at at changing the news cycle. What are we talking about? Now, if you look at Twitter, it's about Trump versus the media. Unfortunately, we're going to leave it there. I want to thank you Jonathan shade for being with us. Thank you. We have reached time once again for famed left right and center ranch featuring pet peeves from across the political spectrum. Ana Marie Cox. It actually dovetails nicely with what we were just talking about. I would like to make the point that this election was not just about Donald Trump, and that progressives made real gains that we do a disservice to the people that made them if we don't pay attention to it. Thank you. Yes. Reformist candidates in sheriff's office in DA's office beat tough on crime sheriff's a three hundred thousand low income people gained access to healthcare four states. Pass nonpartisan redistricting laws Kim Davis lost. Black sheriff's wants seven counties in North Carolina. Alabama had its first black sheriff in accounting ever. And the people that did that were women and people of color, and especially women of color. They were the people on the ground in these elections in these races. And we need to give them the respect and the attention that they are due. I'm going to take advantage of this venue to go, really, parochial and small-minded the. I'm rich. I'm up to the task Twitter. Some of our listeners already. The video screens in the back of taxis in the city are a disgrace. I wanted to watch twelve twelve hour old news clips or old episodes of talk stoop. I would seek them out on my own. And why is it literally impossible to hit the button to turn it off? Come on New York. I just want to note that annoying feature in taxis got louder applause democracy there. For my rent. I want to mention one thing that I was kind of surprised not to hear from the president to sit. I want to mention one thing that I was kinda surprised not hear from the president today. Which is he didn't say this was a fake election result. There was no claim of three million illegal votes in this election. I think it's because he's not the one who personally lost. If he loses somebody else must have cheated. But if other people lose they must have been stupid or they must not have embraced him enough. But still it seems like that was an option available to him. This is a thing you hear a lot from Democrats about while the president is going to call into question the legitimacy of these things that go against him. And certainly sometimes he does that. But I was interested to see today that he chose not to do that and entirely sure why that's all we have time for tonight. I wanna thank all of you for coming out in tuning into this special live edition of left right and center special. Thanks to rich Lowry on my talk. Steve Kornacki, stead Herndon new team Jonathan Chait a huge. Thank you to the town hall for presenting tonight show into our live audience for joining us live was produced by errands today in the case or w events team. Mm-hmm. Sarah, Laura, die million produce tonight's program. The show was recorded by Paul Ruus Norico Kobe of Argo studios. Our technical director at KCRW is Jason. Simon composed. Our theme music. I'm Josh barrow. I'm Josh barrow. Tune in every Friday on KCRW in case W dot com. Three and seven pm. Thanks for joining us and good night. Download and subscribe at KCRW dot com slash L. R RC the KCRW app or wherever you find podcast left. Right and center is produced and distributed by KCRW. This podcast was made by public radio station. KCRW our status has a nonprofit enables us to make bold and unusual programs. But we need your support to keep it that way donate or become a member at KCRW dot com slash join. And thanks.

President Trump Democrats president Trump US Senate Donald Trump Steve Texas rich Lowry Barack Obama congress Trump Republican party Steve Kornacki Michigan Trump Trump Winton KCRW Bedwell Rourke Trump Tower
Effectively Wild Episode 1649: The Energizer Battery

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:29:21 hr | 6 months ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1649: The Energizer Battery

"Hey everyone just letting you know that some big baseball news broke after we recorded the episode. You're about to hear mets owner. Steve cohen deleted his twitter account. No not that. The cardinals reportedly traded rockies third baseman and perennial all-star gold glove and mvp vote-getter no are not oh who has been by fan graphs war the best third baseman in baseball. Dating back to twenty fifteen. You'll hear me and meg briefly bring up are not. oh trade. Rumors and speculate about an essential transaction activity finally gaining some steam. But we didn't learn about the trade until late on friday because big baseball news tends to break at inconvenient times it looks like the rockies will send roughly fifty million dollars to saint louis along with arnaldo in exchange for a package of non elite prospects and the exciting centerpieces salary relief and financial flexibility. There are all kinds of complexities involving no trade clauses and opt-outs and deferrals and an additional year guaranteed and approval from the league in the union. So discuss all of that and much more next time but it seems safe to say that if the deal gets done the cardinals will catapult to the top of the projected standings in tightly packed in mostly mediocre vision for now. I'll remind you not to make the matt holliday. Dj will make you mistake of treating are not does road stats as iraqi as his real offensive skill level outside of course field and leave you with this e mail we received from a listener named brett. I think i may be the only rockies fan that ever sends emails allow me to represent the fan base with the following message pain de back in a moment and welcome to episode sixteen forty nine respectively while a fan grass. Baseball podcast brought to you by our patriot. Supporters growly van grass and. I joined as always by ben of the ringer ben. How're you doing all right. How're you doing all right. Can i tell you about an exciting development in the world of baseball video games. Share not your favorite corner of the baseball world. I know so. Thank you for indulging me. I mean we made you learn about short sales yesterday. So i think that if the least that i can do. What do you got. Well as pointed out to us by patriots supporter russell goldstein. There was a discovery of a baseball game that never existed. Or i guess it sort of existed but never really made it to market and it was to be the baseball equivalent of nba gem. Everyone knows nba gem the incredibly popular nineteen ninety-three nba arcade game that Really just catapulted. Sports games into the mainstream in remains incredibly popular and was kind of a touchstone for an entire generation. It's famous of course for players being on fire and there were a few games that were made by the developer of nba midway games that tried to port that arcadi for media two other sports so i think most notably nfl blitz but they were like hockey equivalents and wrestling equivalents and. There was a baseball game in the works which was not previously known are not widely known at least and this was just unearthed by frank sofala the and the video game history foundation which is a great organization interviewed frank before and they have this initiative. Now that is going back to preserve the source code from old video games the video game source project and so they discovered this abandoned. Cdr just labeled baseball. There was a developer named chris o. Birth who passed away in two thousand twelve and behind a big archive of his work and so the foundation and his family have been working together to document it. And this just a very innocently named cr just a blank disk with a tape on it. That says ball and it turns out to have been a pretty complete game that i worked on with midway. Oh birth was part of this. Developer called incredible technologies. That made golden tee golf and this is a game that was supposed to come out in nineteen ninety six or so. It was called power up baseball. And i will link to this. There's a video of some game play and some screen shots and information from people who are involved in the development of 'bout how was supposed to work and may why it didn't completely the code is also available to download. So if you're handy with an emulator you can get this running and try it for yourself. Knits kind of fascinating to me. I think both the way that they designed it and the reason that it didn't work so there have been some baseball arcadi type games. There have been quite a few of them. Of course in there was A fairly successful series called baseball stars. That was made in the late eighties early nineties. Bay s and k and midway did eventually develop a series called. Mlp slugfest in the two thousand and that was sort of the nba. Jim spiritual successor. And it's very like cartoony and comic and over the top and you could like punch people that game which we don't condone of course now that it was a weird and fund in a virtual way so this game was supposed to come out in arcades and they basically finished it and they put it out in some chicago area arcades. I guess they made like fourteen or fifteen cabinets and they put it out and it just didn't test and it's sort of flops and it's like it's hard for me to tell just from watching the video and reading the description whether this game would have been good or not. There are some interesting choices that they made here but they like digitized. A few players that they borrowed from the south bend minor league team at the time. And so it's kind of cool mix of like semi realistic looking character models and faces with this cartoony style. But i think what was most interesting to me is that the game just didn't earn well like when you made an arcade game in those days. You would put it out in a local arcade and you see if it made money like in a real environment you just see. Did people play it. How many quarters were in the thing and then if it worked out you would expand it. And i'm reading from the art director in this oral history. Here we put out on test in a handful of locations. It didn't do well. And then after a couple of weeks it was yanked and we reworked it and we worked really hard and trying to fix it. Make it better and put it out again and it didn't earn so this game power baseball was just cancelled. It never came out. And i think what is really interesting to me. Is that one reason why didn't earn. Why it didn't make sense. Economically was that baseball is just not very well designed for an arcade game. Apparently so i'm reading from the marketing director here. The economy for basketball was easy. You can buy a quarter you can buy hafer. you can buy a full game. You know the pricing for that as well as just the whole programming time basis of the game allowed it to be fair value. Not only for the player but more importantly good potential for the location. The same thing for hockey wanna play one period two or three and game designer says baseball plays as long as a piece of string right. You know you can show up. You can have a four count on every batter. I don't know what that means exactly. It's not baseball terminology. I'm familiar with you. Don't know how many batters you're going to face in an inning en this was the problem. Yeah it's like. They couldn't predict how long someone would play like. Divide up baseball because that's one of the great things about baseball. The actual sport and also one of the frustrating thinks is that it takes a long time. And you don't know exactly how long it's gonna take so this. Other programmers says it was too long we shortened it down to maybe three innings or something like that and at some point. You could buy one inning at a time and who's gonna play one inning rain. It was great if you could be there for a whole game. But that was like the length of two or three and gyms and that's tough for anybody to sit through the marketing guy says it's one thing to put it in a box for a home console. I don't care how long it takes you to play the game. You've made the purchase but is it a quarter inning and nine quarters upfront to give you a discount. And it's two dollars to play a nine inning game vs two dollars to play a fourth quarter basketball came. You can have the greatest arcade game known to man but if it's going to take ten minutes to play that game it's going to bring in one dollar versus it's going to take twenty seconds to earn one dollar as location owner. Which product am. I going to buy the game designer. Says you can't predict the game play time. And that's the hidden part of the business that you have to bring in a certain amount of quarters during prime time at the arcade and if you can't control that game playtime then you're dead and that was ultimately the big mistake we made. We should have figured out out from the beginning. And i don't know how they could've figured it out exactly because that's baseball. That's just the challenge that they spelled the real sport presents. But also the arcade game. It's like you just don't know how long it's gonna last how you divide it up so i thought that was pretty interesting that the same challenges would apply to the digital version of the sport. I'm so comforted by this explanation. Because you sent the the article here. And and i watched the simulated game play and i saw some of the special features that they were planning to incorporate. And the you know being able to swing with a lightsaber and do gravitas. And all sorts of stuff. And i as as you've noted here in our listeners know am not like emphysema nago of of video games. So i or arcade games for that matter. Much to the chagrin of several members of our staff at fan graphs who love arcade games. Yeah sean dolan created his game indeed. And so i i was watching the simulated gameplay and seeing some of the fun stuff you could do and i. I just felt like a real dummy. Ben because i didn't understand this seems like it's my understanding of what is appealing about video games so far removed from reality that i'm not able to detect an obvious flaw and it just didn't. It didn't occur to me that this would be the problem until i read on. Because when i have seen baseball video games. They've been in of the home console environment. Where you know you if you wanna play nine innings you posit and you come back and and a lot of the time you wanna sit there for. Maybe i don't know half an hour and play your way through. And so i was going on here but yeah it's such a. It's such a funny challenge because even the three inning option it you still don't have a ton of predictability about how long that's going to last and if you introduce artificial boundaries to it right like at a certain point the game says okay you've been playing for too long so we need to get some quick out so that we can move on. That's not going to be a satisfying game experience for the person playing it so it is sort of a weird challenge. Which is a bummer. Because i think that if the if it had been put to me that i could swing a lightsaber to play baseball. My entire engagement with this might have been different. I want to talk about the power ups second because the way that you played. This game is really interesting. I think you play it with a ball. you know. there's like a a ball that you roll to do stuff and so it was like this furious activity so the programmer says you were one foot from the person you're playing it's like a one vs one thing and you're like rolling the trackball up as fast as you can. So you're pitcher would go back and then down as fast as you can. It was just intense. You'd be covered in sweat after a game and there was so much trash talking going on. Nba jam keeps moving super fast in this. You had a couple of seconds between every pitch in every hit so there was a ton of ribbing in there and you pitch and you hit with the track ball and it was like the faster you roll with the ball the faster you pitch which is kinda cool. I think in the same with batting. Like if you roll the ball really fast you swing fester. I guess so. People were just like slamming. The track pulses are as they could which would have been hard on the hardware. I assume maybe would have given you terrible carpal tunnel or who knows what this would have caused. But i think the image of that like it's kind of fun that you are actually physically moving something faster to move something faster in the game. It sounds unique unusual. At least let's talk a little bit about the power ups here because you know like in nba gm you're on fire and you are more likely to to hit your shots but in this one it's like when you get power of i guess you get to choose from various special moves both as a pitcher and as a hitter and some of them. I understand and others. I don't really so there are like little gifts of each of these years. So the pitching ones. There's a vintage pitch and a vintage swing for pitching and batting. With as far as i can tell just seems to be that your character muddle is replaced by like a black and white dead ball person. Which like i don't understand how that's the power of exactly. It's just replacing it with someone who probably would have hit the ball a lot less hard. Yeah yeah so. There's like an old timey wind up. I don't know if that's supposed to be distracting. Looks like there's some flames with the old-timey wind up that come out of the ball. So i don't know that seems more like a just an aesthetic difference than really power up now. There's a tornado pitch which that does seem quite beneficial's just like you you rotate really really fast. Like a figure skater. And then you let go of the ball and the ball goes fast. It seems like that would be a pretty valuable power up to have in real life. But then there's a bean ball pitch. Yeah and it's not. It's not pulling any punches. Pitch you you in the guy right in the head. Yeah which again arguable. That that's a power up because It looks like you just hit the guy in the head and it tastes. Take your base. So i don't know how that's a power up you're putting someone on bass i guess like if you're hurting the guy and he doesn't get to play anywhere it doesn't seem like that's the case. Then there's an underhand pitch which is kinda cool you know. I guess it's like a super s type thing. I guess it would have been hard to hit if you were not geared up for that and then the hitting ones as you mentioned. There's a lightsaber swing which The guy just gets lightsaber for some reason. And from what. I understand about lightsabres. Doesn't seem like it would work this at the ball and it goes very fire. It seems to me like about where it seems like it would cut the ball in half and so it would. It would be kind of cool. If the animation that accompanied this is the ball being cut in half and then Dropping you know just far enough away from the catcher that they can't fielded and so you get like an infield hit. I guess but i. I suspect that if the ball why. I don't know we don't we don't necessarily we don't penalize a hitter he he literally hits the cover off the ball. Let's not a not a bad thing. So i suppose if you hit hard enough to slice it in half and the catcher were not able to feel that you'd probably be allowed to take your base. Yeah that's true. It doesn't seem to do that though. Rep if you could just slice the ball and it was impossible to throw you out the power of a very very far to the outfield. And i yeah. I share your confusion about the physics. That are in play here Even the lowest medical best car or something. That's a reference for the mandalorian fence out there. There's also a one arm swing power up which again seems like the opposite of power up. It's just a a two handed batter who swings with one arm and in the gif at least just hit a week grounder. Yeah the middle comes out. It seems he's out after this power ups that's beneficial then. There's something that the game called a karate swing which in this case looks like the better just like turns around so his back is to the pitcher and then he again uses one arm to just like swing the bat like it's an chuck or something and it appears to be effective in this gift but doesn't look to me like something that would be beneficial in real life. Then there's the gravitas which. I like a lot where the hitter just catches the ball with one hand throws it up and hits it again. I don't know if this would be beneficial. I mean it's time to hit the ball as hard when you toss it to yourself. But i guess you you have much more bat control and can place it. I don't know how exactly he catches the ball without hurting himself. That's just part of the physics. That produce the lightsaber swing. I guess is that you could do. This would be quite a bad s thing to do a better. Where to somehow catch the ball barehanded or with a baton. Kloof as just a show of your philosophy is so weak that i can just catch this thing and it won't even hurt. Yeah although i have to imagine as you said that the The average exit velocity on a on a pitch that you are tossing to yourself and then trying to hit has to be like notably lower than it would be on a that. You're barreling up That is to you by the pitcher but it would be. I mean this looks cool. This looks cool. Like the lightsaber swing. It looks cool. I don't know that the physics of it necessarily works in terms of what the game is rewarding brought. It looks cool. Yeah and then the last one is what's called a caveman swing which looks like basically a butcher boy kind of thing. It's like swinging vertically. You know down from above your head and again just seems to produce a week grounder at least in this gif and it only works. Evidently if the ball pitches happening so it's like they both have to have power ups and you can do the cave-in to counter the beanpole pitch. Which is kinda cool. I guess but again most of these power ups seem like they would be powered downs to me. But i like the variety. I like the comic zany -ness of it for some reason. When you hit a home run a fountain of baseball's explodes out of the area. Just behind home plate. It just popped out like fireworks. Don't know why and I wish this game had come out and were widely playable again. I don't know if it's a good caper like it seems like among the people interviewed here at the reviews differed the art director says the batting portion was okay the fielding portion was in my opinion never superfund and then the marketing person says the game itself was fine. I mean don't get me wrong. Liked it which is not really a rave review and the programmer says. I like the game a lot so varied guess. And according to the arcade testing seemed like the market just rejected the so. We never got power baseball. But i'm glad its existence has been documented. Seems like they had some interesting ideas. At least if you want your arcade baseball fix you can dig up baseball stars or mlb slug fester backyard lower rbi baseball or whatever their options out there but mostly not as soon as this one seemed to be but it's a cool alternate history like if power baseball head out and america had just gone wild for. I don't know the the caveman swing and this became as big a fad as nba. Jam was who knows how that would have affected baseball history. I suppose that the sort of baseball contests that lends itself. Best to this would probably be something like a homerun derby right like you could have a home run derby arcade game. I don't know if anyone would want to play it. You would be able to you. Can you can have a clock. 'cause the derby has o'clock and you'd still get the satisfaction of hitting the ball really far hopefully And you get to play as some of the sort of most popular and famous players in the game and you could. You could spice it up by having the derby sort of bp thrown by someone who isn't like the players dad or you know. I hitting coach but by an actual major leaguer so you know when this game off and so on makes millions. I want my cut. Yeah there have been some like browser based homerun derby games that have been kind of popular and there's that google doodle a couple of fourth of july's ago. Were you hit thousand foot dinger's and you play his food from backyard barbecues but power baseball this was like a licensed thing like they had the real players it you know. Mlb license mlb license. it was looking legitimate. It was all the real teams hawk. Harrelson was the announcer so it had personality. I'm glad it was found but said that it was lost. Anyway i will link to that for anyone who wants to see it in action and hear it and read about it and potentially play it so we are going to do some emails today. And i guess there couple more signings that we can discuss a little bit of news and some l. central news actual and central transactions. They can happen. I had forgotten that such things were possible. I think when the cardinals brought back. Adam wainwright dollar deal. I'm pretty sure that deal alone. Doubled the previous collective expenditure of all l. central team son off reagents this winter. So that's how dead. It's been in the al central but at wayne rate back with the cardinals and the cubs quickly countered by signing. John peterson to a one year. Seven million dollar deal. So there is a little life and the cardinals. Rockies nolan are nado trade rumors have been revived again. Nothing has happened there as we speak. But those rumors which have been going on for quite a while now are back again so it seems as if maybe there little glimmers of life in that were abundant division. Some they're some glimmers of life. I still would. I would still paint both of these signings as sort of being of the the second tier variety in terms of potential impact that they will have although given you know the way things are going in in that division may be. These are all that you need. Maybe it's all you need. Ben peterson was our seventeenth ranked free agent. When we did our exercise in the earlier part of this winter wainwright was our forty seven. I am going to be curious to see how chicago plans to deploy drug peterson because it sounded like they were trying to give him every day repsonse center and he has a pretty marked platoon splits. So i wonder what the deal is there. It seems like the dodgers were really smart in the way that they deployed peterson. And he's a good player. So i don't mean this as a knock on him but he is one who benefits from seeing lefthanded pitching more than right handed pitching so. I'll be curious to see kind of what they do there. It is certainly a defensive upgrade on sh warburg from an outfield perspective. Although they weren't you know lake playing center centerfield. 'cause that would be that'd be wild ben offensively. He's very similar. Wake their numbers. At least they're slash stats are like almost identical. Really both their career numbers and their platoon splits and stats like very similar. Peterson's adjust for the park and playing dodger stadium. Peterson has probably been a bit better. It would be hard to come up with a closer competent. Those case probably so they basically replaced shorter with a slightly older slightly cheaper and or defensively capable version of schmerber. Doesn't have the history with the team and the clubhouse ties and fan affiliation and all of that in fact i just went to baseball reference and players on baseball reference have similarity scores that. Compare them to other players and jack peterson's most similar batter overall is kyle schwarzer and kyle schwab irs. Second most similar better is chock peterson and birds most similar batter through age twenty. Seven is peterson. So yeah you could say. The cubs have type when it comes to the corner. Outfielders wonder if there's a future step last in their players replaced by extremely similar players. So that's sort of a lateral move. You know like peterson as a player but as he said he has been somewhat limited and he's only played more than one hundred fifty games one time and that was very early in his career since then he's been more limited partly due to injuries but mostly just because that's his role and he kind of carved out a valuable role with the dodgers who just had so many moving pieces and did a job of working them all in finding ways to play them to take advantage of their skills or minimized their weaknesses but would be kinda interesting to see him. Get a shot at just in everyday. Roll like at this age. You probably wouldn't expect him to figure out how to hit lefties sudden so probably he is who he is but you know he could play in an everyday role and be good enough against righties to make him worth playing. Yeah i think that's right and again it's good to see them do something. Yeah and wayne right with saint louis. That's obviously a move to or not even a lateral move. It's just bringing back someone who has been there forever. But as dinsmore ski pointed out in his post about this it's not just like bringing back a franchise icon in the twilight years just for old time sake like wait. Right was their most valuable pitcher west. You're still quite effective. And he's turning forty in august and he obviously has extensive injury history so not necessarily someone you can count on to be a workhorse. But he sure was a workhorse last year and he made ten starts and he went deep into games in he pitched about as well as he usually does in latter years so he is still like a valuable contributor on top of just being someone who means a lot to that organization. If you're having to choose between sentimental re signings in the case of the cardinals. I shudder to say this. Because they know how dare he has their fans but this is a superior one to bringing molina but sorry is more useful to your baseball team so i think that it's fine. I think this was the outcome that we sort of expected. And if this ends up being sort of last ride for him and that that curveball than he has a bright future in broadcasting it would seem as you note yet your molina not back with the cardinals yet but it does look like. It's only a matter of time and probably not much more time on friday. Jon morosi tweeted. That molina is expected to resign with saint louis after the conclusion of the caribbean series on february. Six if not sooner. It's taken a little longer than expected to get that deal done. Molina has seemingly made it clear that he's not gonna just take any deal to come back there but obviously he's played his whole career. There wayne right now. Who's been molina's teammate. Forever is now back. Maybe that makes him a little more likely to sign up for another tour. We will see. I actually have a step last on this topic here win. Rate and molina related. So do that now. A sets us so selfishly and speaking as a neutral observer. I hope the cardinals do make it official and bring back both molina and wayne right. We've talked before about how. Yeah we support players deciding to go wherever they want to and wherever they get the most money wherever it makes sense for them but it's also nice when hit works out that that turns out to be the place their whole career. And you get to be just a legend with that franchise and people get to see the beginning and end of your careers and wainwright and molina have made. What hundred forty hundred. Fifty million plus stars in their careers. Not saying that means that they have to take some sort of discounters sweetheart deal. But i'm personally not losing sleep over their finances like i assume they'll be okay so i think it would be nice for them and nice for the fans if they were to finish their careers together and i hope that they do for another reason. Which is that. They are moving up and interesting leaderboard here. I was curious where they rank all time in among active players. In the most prolific pitcher catcher batteries in terms of most starts made together molina debuted with the cardinals in two thousand and four wayne rate debuted with the cardinals in two thousand and five and since then they have worked together. An awful lot wainwright in his career has made three hundred twenty six starts. That's just regular season starts and two hundred seventy four of those have been with yet here. Molina who of course has been a iron man himself and that ranks really high actually on the all time list and i went to our frequent stat plus consultant adam out here for the list. And it turns out that wainwright and molina. They currently ranked sixth all-time when it comes to most starts made by a pitcher catcher combo and they rank behind. Only mickey lynch and bill freehand warren spahn and del crandall red faber. And ray schalk. Don drysdale and john roseborough and read roughing and bill dickey. And then you have wainwright and lena epstein seventy four launch and freehand are at three twenty four. So that's the all time record. If they were to pitch again a full season together this year they could move up two spots or possibly three or more spots on the leaderboard. It depends you have roughing and dickey or two eighty two so just eight ahead of win right. Molina that is well within reach drysdale and roseborough to eighty three. So that's just one more. So barring injury they would clear those two and they would be fourth all time. The only other one. That's within reach favor and shock who are third all-time at three. Oh six technically. That could happen. They would need to make thirty two starts together. Which would be difficult like wainwright has made thirty two or more starts in his career. I think What seven times. He's exceeded thirty two starts four times so it could happen. But at his age and at lena's it's not likely but if they were to stay together for two more seasons they really would have a shot of being the most prolific battery of all time. That would be pretty cool. And no one is anywhere close to them among active battery so among pitcher catcher tandems who played in two thousand and twenty. It's wainwright molina at two seventy four. Then the second most is actually carlos martinez and molina at one. Eleven and the most prolific non molina combo among active players is danny duffy and salvador perez. Really one oh two. Yeah so duffy. An peres are less than forty percent of the way to wayne rate and molina. It's just like pretty much uncatchable count. Madison bumgarner and buster posey were within shouting distance at two twenty six. That's twentieth most all time. But that pairing was broken up at twenty nineteen win. Bumgarner went to the diamondbacks. And i should add. Adam also sent me a list with postseason starts included net. Change the order of the top six. It does bump up win. Rate in molina from two seventy four to eighty eight and it narrows the gap so they're only one behind drysdale and roseborough three behind roughing and dickey and forty behind lola and freehand at the top. That's with postseason starts included. Of course there are more opportunities to make. Postseason starts in this era but the fact that they ranked sixth all-time in regular season starts. I think it's particularly impressive that they've done it in this era because on the one hand you have more games than you did in these earlier eras and like the five combos that are ahead of them are from decades ago like half a century ago. The most recent one like wallich chin freehand their last start. Together was nineteen seventy-five spun and crandall nineteen sixty three favor and shock. Nineteen twenty six drysdale and rosebrough nineteen sixty seven and roughing and dickie nineteen forty six in fact even the prolific combos. That win rate n will. Lena have passed recently. Were all for the most part from a long time ago the only other combos at two hundred fifty starts her above steve rogers and gary carter last together in nineteen eighty-four. Bob lemon jim hagen. At two sixty four that was nineteen. Fifty seven pete alexander and bill offer at two fifty one that was one thousand nine hundred twenty one their last pairing and early win and jim he again at two fifty and they also broke up after nineteen fifty seven though there was tom. Glavin in javier lopez at two forty eight last seen together in two thousand two. By the way. I will put this entire spreadsheet online and linked to it from the show page as usual so when you think of how long ago the pairings close to molina and wainwright worked together for them to be up. There in. Twenty twenty is really impressive. I think because despite the fact that they're more games they're also five man rotation it's rare for a starter to get more than you know thirty two or so starts these days and if you look at some of the names above them. They were routinely getting totals in the high thirties. Or even the forty you know there were Madan drysdale regularly started forty. Plus games sodas. Which was incredible in nineteen seventy-one mickey wallich through three hundred seventy six innings in forty five starts a so. That was a cy young runner up season. So wainwright can't do that like with five rotations. You're basically limited to thirty two thirty three. Maybe thirty four at the high end starts and to do it. In this era also in era with much higher turnover among players. You know because of free agency because they're more teams etc. They're just more players changing teams than there. And that's rare among good players. Like wainwright and molina who would climb to the top of this list but even good players have had higher turnover than they did. In earlier. years of baseball history will link to a a study. That shows that if you wanna see it in a graph. It's pretty incredible that they have had this one jeopardy together and so as someone who appreciates baseball history and the history that we're seeing in front of our own is. I want them to continue to add to this count. So cardinals do whatever it takes spring back yet. Her molina and let them climb to the top of this list and clear. Don't have any issue with him being on the cardinals next year. I'm just saying one. We're forced to choose if you will encountered mean jeannie. And he was like which of these guys will help the cardinals advance further in a soft central division right and and then and then I'd i'd make that wish but my my real wishes that cardinals fans as you said. Get an opportunity to say goodbye. Hopefully safely in the ballpark to a guy who's meant a great deal to their franchise and has been a terrific player over the course of his career and is likely nearing the end of it. So wanna make that disclaimer. Very clear. Ben because i wouldn't want tarnish either molina's reputation or make people doubt that i appreciate him as a player because that is not true. Also did i say that. Jack petersen hits better against lefties than rights because they met at the other way. It's just that he had a weird river split this year. Okay so i just felt like clarify on the record and case. People are like meg. Do you know how what hand he hits with. And i would say yes they do. I just you know i did a little weird thing in my brain anyway. Sorry i interrupted you no problem. Yeah if If anyone's wondering how win rate might perform if malina were not brought back so wainwright has a career three point. Two six era with your your molina compared to a three point three eight year a overall so it seems like His tops plus is a little bit better with molina. So the he's been a tiny bit better with molina than with other players but not a whole lot. It's not as if he's been horrible when melina isn't catching him. Of course i haven't looked at like the distribution of seasons. Maybe he has happened to be caught by million more in his best season. Or whatever and you would expect him to be a little bit better with molina. Just because millions defensive scares and his reputation as a a pitch caller and all that but he's been pretty good without molina to. It's also impressive. Because wainwright has missed like four years because of injuries basically like all or parts of those years and also the shortened twenty twenty so despite all of that he has still ascended close to the top of the list an era that does not favor that so really impressive and cool and i hope that they can stay together and keep making memories for cardinals fans indeed so one other thing i wanted to bring up that is sorta stat plastic. Is that nick madrigal who has been sort of a favorite of this podcast. He made some comments about aspiring to join the three thousand hits club. Nick metrical has thirty five matronly kits to his name right now so he is a mere twenty nine hundred and sixty five way but he was interviewed this week on the white sox talk podcast and the three thousand hits club. Came up and magical. Sounds quite confident about this. As he does about all things he said. I've seen a lot of great hitters in this league growing up and watching guys. The three thousand mark is not easy at all. There's very few people that do it. But i feel like that's very reachable. I know that's throwing a big statement out there. But i believe in myself and i know what it takes to play this game. I feel confident. I can do it. I haven't broken it down exactly by season. But i know it's going to take a lot of getting on base which is true. It's maybe an understatement. But he says. I'm not big on telling people your goals are saying you're going to do something ultimately you've got to go out and do it. There's been a lot of people that have said they're going to do things. But i feel confident in myself and my work ability and hopefully it comes god willing so this is One of his traits as a person and as a prospect that he is quite confident and he has reason to be confident and also i guess it served him well as a player he believes in himself maybe even more than he should. I don't know but i am rooting for him here. I just wanted to put into perspective. Since he says that he has not really broke into town and thought about what this would take exactly. I thought i would point out what it would take an how steep the odds are against him much as i would like him to do it. It's obviously quite difficult to get to the three thousand hits club. I think only thirty two players in history have done it and the problem is that he's already behind the pace by a considerable argentiere bike to be in the three thousand hits club you have to play forever and be productive for a really long time but it also helps if you debut young man get a head start and he didn't really do that he he didn't come up particularly old but he wasn't someone who's like coming up as a teenager or something and banking those hits and he came up this past year. He is now almost twenty four years old. He turns twenty four in march and so through his age twenty three season again he just has those thirty five hits and i found a recent study that was done by ryan pots at overtime heroics dot net and he looked at the baseline basically for every member of the three thousand hits club he looked at like what's the average number of hits that they have had through each age and through age twenty three. The average hits total among players. Who went on to join. The three thousand. Hits club is four. Forty eight so magical. Who again is at thirty five. Only he is Quite a bit behind the pace four hundred thirteen hits behind the pace and member of our facebook group. Chris mc lynch did a little additional research here and he found that of the thirty two players in history to get to three thousand hits only four of them debuted at twenty three or older so really tough. The the four are wade boggs each row. Who of course was playing japan before he came to be paul waner and honus wagner and those four all played into their forty s and remained productive at late ages and i think they all got their three thousand th hit either at age thirty nine in wieners case or once they were in their forties for the other three so to replicate that to do what the only other members of the three thousand hits club who debuted as late have done metric old would have to play for you. Know another seventeen eighteen years at least and be steady and productive and durable which is difficult. That's why not a lot of people do it. But i liked his confidence said. I hope he's right. I would say that of all the things he could claim he might do. This seems like the one to aspire to given his profile as player the amount of contact he makes how little he strikes out. You know he doesn't walk a ton he he isn't up there saying i'm gonna hit five hundred home runs if he did that. We would say neck. We need to have a conversation about your your profile as a player and how how likely that is given what you bring to the table which is great deal but not that but yes it seems. It seems to me unlikely that he will. He will be in a position to do what he is claiming but i think that You know having a goals and dreams is good and he seems to be putting it in the proper perspective and have an appreciation for its difficulty. So so that's a good thing although it does kind of remind me a bit but have i ever told you. The story of mike. Xenos tops chrome twenty thirteen baseball card. I don't put so okay. So this is this is You know it was early in my career and it had one of the career chased line a snippets that you sometimes see on cards. Here's what it said was zero. Home runs mike's it is seven hundred sixty two away from barry bonds. All time record of seven sixty two on pace for zero on his for zero is just a funny and not really all that related to bit but one that i remember i also remind my earlier statement about jack petersen just point out that he only took nine outbursts against lifted hitting in twenty twenty which can explain why he was really good against them. Because you just got them all that often again an important thing that i just feel like in the pursuit of avoiding any. Just lay that all out for our listeners. You should just continue to sprinkle in little jack pearson addendums threat the rest of the episode. That would be a recurring bit. I'll do my best. Yeah as you mentioned. Metrical totally fits the profile of someone who could do this. He doesn't strike out. He doesn't really walk and he's had pretty high babs over the last couple seasons so he could do it like according to the fan graphs steps charts projections. He has the fourth highest projected average in baseball at two hundred seven after lewis arise wants soda and dj lemay hugh so if he were to repeat the season that he is projected for so sips and steamer combined have him projected for a to ninety seven three forty four three eighty nine line at a seven thirty three apiece and two point three war. Which is you know. Basically like an average player. That's in one hundred forty three games and six hundred sixteen appearances so that's not an unreasonable projection. It's not like he plays one hundred sixty two games or something if he were to have that line for the rest of his career obviously that is assuming he ever suffered a serious injury and that he doesn't get much better which of course could happen as he ages into his prime but if he were to repeat this protected line over and over again it would take him between seventeen and eighteen seasons to get to the three thousand threshold. So you know he would be somewhere around his fortieth birthday so it could happen. It is theoretically possible and medicals a fascinating player because there is so much dispute about him as a prospect. You know a lot of people thinking he was a really promising player others thinking that his skill set just wouldn't translate to the majors that he wouldn't have enough power to keep pitchers honest. And i've been at believer in him just because of his great bet to ball skills and contact ability. And i don't know if he will be a star or if you will just be a steady consistent solid producer but i like him because he goes against the grain of modern hitting and this would be an interesting cooperstown case. I guess because if he were to repeat this line for the next eighteen years or so he would be a three thousand hits club member but he would also probably have. I don't know forty or fifty four or something like he would be like a hollow. Very good like compiler type who is just average every year forever. Which i'm pretty sure is a hypothetical question that we have gotten an answer in the past so it would be. I don't know kind of like a fiscal. Ask cooperstown case. I guess without maybe the defensive flashing although metropolitans a pretty capable defender to at second base so that would be an interesting case. It's like with some of the other players who have been on pace to get three thousand without being star players at various points. Like i'm trying to think who fits that bold like started castro. Our dick marquess or edgar renteria players like that. Who have been mentioned as like boy. If this guy gets to three thousand that would be a quandary for hall of fame voters and they never seemed to make it. They never quite keep up the pace because they aren't great to begin with and they don't have far to fall and whitney decline. They lose playing time that we haven't had that test case like who's the worst to player in the three thousand hits club. They're all pretty good. I guess war would say lou brock probably but wasn't viewed as supporter wine guy at the time. He was a first ballot hall of famer so we haven't had the mediocre compiler three thousand hits club member with incredible longevity. And maybe that's for the best. The last thing we need at this point another country offering voters at least that would be based on field performance of that kind of fun to talk about. Actually i was gonna say ben would love it would love a statistical quandary stirs useful quandary. Sounds like a welcome change of pace. Can i briefly. Say the the the best part of all of that. And i think nick madrigal should get his stew and he if he were to put that fame case together it would be a very interesting one for us to bait to debate but the thing that really stood out and all of that to me. Is that a guy who is currently projected for thirty nine home runs also projected for a batting average over three hundred one. Soto is a freaking miracle. We should appreciate him every single. Yeah yeah exactly. And that's kind of what i'm talking about. like one. Soto who is still just twenty two younger considerably younger than magical and he already has. Three hundred twenty eight hits so he is well on his way to joining that club and like every other club we could join to all right and the last thing. I want to mention just a little bit of news. Be announced that ken griffey junior was named as a senior advisor to the commissioner which produced some very confusing and hard to parse headlines about ken griffey junior being a senior adviser. Epi names ken griffey junior senior adviser. Commissioner is mlb traders had which is even were confusing because there is a ken griffey senior so it took me a minute to to sort this out but because we talked about and sort of lauded. Mlp's decision to bring on theo epstein as a consultant. When it came to unfilled issues griffey will be a consultant. Whose emphasis will be on. I'm quoting here. Baseball operations and youth baseball development particularly regarding improving diversity at amateur levels of the game and he'll be an ambassador at various youth baseball initiatives and events. And i think that's fun and cool because ken griffey junior is someone who i think. There's very little negatively associated with his story and he was really one of the last baseball players to be a national celebrity and someone who brought together all different cultures and aspects of society and can the fifty something. Ken griffey junior make. That happen again. I don't know. I don't know what his powers will be here or what. His plan will be exactly. But i think it's nice that. Mlb is making an effort to enlist the services of people like this who seem smart and have the credentials and have demonstrated the ability to do these things and at least trying to make an effort to target areas of the game that have been lacking and lacking so. I don't know if anyone can make baseball popular again. Among the youths had increased the percentage of players who are black which has been declining for years and years. I have some faith in kid. Griffey junior to have some ideas about how to do that. So best of luck to him. I think that it's a very smart higher for any number of reasons. I hope that it comes with continued increasing financial investment to make the game more accessible particularly in the communities that you named because as we know there any number of systemic barriers that are in the way of youth participation in baseball in communities of color and particularly in the black community. But i think addressing. Those issues is going to take a concerted effort from a number of people. And having someone like ken griffey junior at the head is wonderful and i hope that it is backed with resources to put him in a position to act on all of the great ideas that i'm sure he's gonna bring to the league so Yeah to have. It's nice to have good news. And i hope that it's followed up with further good news. Because i think that there's a lot of potential for this to be impactful in places that would you know. Need resources and need sort of direct ambassadorship that is backed with meaningful action on the leaves part so yeah of course griffey himself because of the aforementioned ken griffey senior does not have like a a typical route to getting interested in baseball have a parent who is a mobile star player. That seems like a good thing. If we could make that happen for more people than we'd probably get a lot worse kids interested in baseball. They could just all have dads who are big leaguers themselves. That would be great. I'm sure that Despite that somewhat skewed perspective griffey junior must still have some interesting insights based on having been a national figure and to talking to so many fans over the years so hopefully will have some good ideas. Yeah i know that he remains active with the mariners talking to their Minor leaguers and sort of being involved in the organization in that way so he already has some experience as an ambassador for the game in a someone who can give advice perspective on what it takes. And so i'm really. I'm really excited to see what he does with this. Because like you said if anyone can help with this effort it has to be one of the guys who is the last like sort of nationally recognized star not only for his incredible hall of fame worthy career but also for just his you know his personality his cool he was he was cool. We don't have a lot of We don't have a lot of baseball players who have broken through in that way and there are lots of reasons why that's true but the speaks to at least speaks to our generation and i imagine we'll speak future generations to you so yeah cool at minimum just having a household name associated with this ball in an official capacity. Probably can't be a bad thing. Not the kids today would know who he is but at least their parents would and speaking of arcadia baseball games. Maybe he can reboot ken. Griffey junior slugfests that could be his method of getting kids interested in baseball as a fun. Game video games and increased funding for little league. Let's go yeah okay. Let's see if we can sneak in a few emails here. This one is from drew. He says. I just had to listen to episode sixteen thirty two and really enjoyed the interview with louis. Ouchi who is awfully impressive and well-spoken. Her story as a trailblazer seemed very much in keeping with some of the themes of the mvp machine so a question are there ever incentives in player contracts to promote the use of a data based approach as a means to improve so many free agent contracts way against the risk of deterioration over time. But i don't hear a lot about actively promoting improvement outside of incentives for awards and sometimes for appearances for those with a history of injuries. So this is interesting. I thinking there are limits on the kinds of incentives that you can have so rules. Say that i'm quoting here. No major league uniform players contract or minor league uniform player contract shall be approved if it contains a bonus for playing pitching or batting skill or if it provides for the payment of a bonus contingent on the standing of the signing club at the end of the championship season. So you can't say look if you a bonus if you hit x. number of home runs or if the team finishes first or whatever. You can't do that. But i'm not sure that this would fall into that category like i think you can have attendance bonuses awards bonuses things like that and this is less of a skills based incentive for performance incentive than it is like a practice based incentive. Yeah you're basically like trying to ensure that the players are undergoing some sort of continuing education here. Yeah they are trying to apply themselves off the field or incorporate new technologies or or ways of looking at the game. So i don't know that the sort of thing exists. I've never heard of it. And i don't know if it would fall into a legal gray area but on the surface. Seems like it might be permissible. So i guess the question is if it were. How would you implement that. Gosh i don't know it. Seems like i mean during the season that seems like an easy thing to monitor right because the guys at your facility every day and traveling with the team and so a fuse engaging in this sort of stuff you can sort of verify that pretty easily. I don't know how it would work. You can't really have offseason incentives but that seems like the place where you know working out in front of a machine like this or engaging in pitch design stuff is going to be the most impactful. So i don't know how you would sequence an incentive like that am i thinking of the wrong way ben. No i mean it's tough because you don't really wanna lick give your players homework. Guess that it would be kind of annoying. But i could see the upside of giving players a reason to do this because especially like as you age and maybe some of your skills decline the things that worked well for you. Before might not work. As well and players are very adaptable and willing to incorporate new ideas and new approaches and others are also and they cling to what worked well for them before even after it stops working so if there were a way to say like gosh. I don't know all the stuff that we were talking about on our last episode with like seem shifted wakened spin mirroring and this things and again. This is something that players may just do instinctively or they may know about already but if there are advances like this maybe if there were like hey you have to If you attend a seminar with our coaches and our baseball operations staff were they fill you in on the latest advances in the latest tools that are available to you then you will get some sort of bonus like that happens already like they're already briefings and meetings like that in one on one instruction so maybe it's not necessary in this era when i think most players are pretty receptive to the stuff just because they've seen how well it works for other players and younger players coming up have just been immersed in this environment from the start of their career and grew up in the moneyball era so it's not foreign or intimidating or alien to them so it may be less and less necessary as time goes on and i think if you have a good system set up then it's just kind of routine like from the second you get into that organization you're being exposed to this and it's available to you and you're getting benchmarks and all of that but all i can think of his that like you would give people bonus for like you know completing some training or something it's like you know you have to at least Read about it or click through editors we'll give you a primer about all of this and you have to answer a little quiz or something and we'll give you a bonus you know just basically give players homework so that they're aware of everything that's going on and just give them a little extra incentive to do that on top of just say this might make you better at baseball. I imagine that it would. It would allow you to tailor it more specifically and maybe the you know maybe this question has the same mind but as we've talked about when we've discuss player development is going to resonate with a player is vary person to person and you know what am i trying to say. You don't necessarily want every guy to try to redesign his pitch. Mix with seem shifted. Wakened mind because he knows if that's going to be complementary to his existing repertoire effect changes really gonna be one that advances his performance. So you wanna be able to tailor very very specifically and it seems like if you already have that in mind you don't necessarily need to make a contract incentive. You're probably already having those conversations with the player and trying to figure out what motive sort of disseminating that information is going to make it sort of stick and resonate the best way so yeah but it is an interesting. It is an interesting thing. And then i would wanna see and i'm not advocating like broad player surveillance when i say this but i would be fascinated to see if this becomes a place where players and writers are the same in that. Most of their engagement with those resources would happen like four days before they have to report to spring raining because everyone does better when they're right in right before the deadline which they don't encourage just like this is how it goes. Sometimes you you need the you need the fear before you actually do the work so i would be curious to see what the distribution of access to those resources was in terms of the calendar and sort of how likely guys are to push it off and push it off but yeah yeah and i guess you're right. This could very easily creep into creepy surveillance territory. Where it's like. Hey we'll give you a buddhist if you where this sleep auditor or something and we know what you're doing and not doing off the field or like i don't know maybe hey we'll send you a a hit tracks machine or rep sodo or something so that you have that over the off season and we will know how much you used it or something or i guess it could be like. Hey we'll give you a bonus if you go to drive line for a week every winter for a tune-up or you know some some team run meese balls academy over the winter or something like if you're going to try to compel players to to do that to put in extra work than it seems only right that you would give them some financial reward for doing that so i could see something like that but it could it could easily go into sort of flick territory where it would just be like a big brother type mechanism. Yeah then can. I break some news on the pod odor. You thought this was going to be really big news. This is very relevant to you. Personally oh okay. Mic fulton average through for teams in atlanta. Today and he was ninety two ninety two but looked to be in fine shape. Ooh all right. My number one minor week. Free agent drafty That's that sounds good healthy. At least it sounds like he was capable of throwing some pitches. Yeah good all right. I hope there will be a corey. Kluber esque bidding war. That's i think. Jake arrieta's doing a showcase soon writer. Yeah so it showcases. And but right may fulton average end up with a depleted rotation where he can get lots and lots of playing time. You thought i was going to make talk about. Trevor bauer on the slide. Didn't i thought it might be something a little bit bigger than that. Or maybe something you just discovered about. Jack petersen stats no okay. This one is in the mike trout genre but it's sort of inversion or perversion of the mike trout. Hypothetical this is from another ben. Who says this is my first attempt at a contribution to the mike trout hypothetical genre. What would happen if mike trout. Like dr manhattan grows tired of his baseball superiority and decides to set a new goal to accumulate as much cumulative negative were as possible between now and the end of his career. What would be the best strategy to accomplish this. How much negative work could he wreck up before. He wasn't allowed to play anymore. Are there sneaky ways. He could be bad with no one noticing. So this is mike trout. Tanking hypothetical in the past we've had like metro gets tired of baseball. And he just takes up another sport or mike trout to pretends to be some other player and he has a second or third hall of fame career. But in this case mike trout. You just falls out of love with the game. And for whatever reason he doesn't walk away he just decides to be as bad as possible until they make him stop playing. You're going to be happy to know that. I once contemplated this very question for baseball prospectus. Okay i tried. I tried to think of situations now. They did not have the doctor manhattan. Ask agency that this question implies. They did not come with trout. Tiring of the game or wanting to plot a strange course but i wondered how we could make him less. Good at baseball. And i'm here to tell you that some of these are really weird all right. Would you like me to run through. I wondered what would happen if he carried a bunch of coins in his pockets. Okay yeah like you know. Like if he 'cause baseball players carry all sorts of stuff with them on the field. They have snacks. They got batting gloves. It looks like they're carrying wallet back there sometimes just because of the the form that those gloves take and so. I wondered how many coins he would have to carry specifically in his back pockets to make him either more injury prone like if he he slides in feet first but on his bum into second. And then you know had a bunch of coins in there. Their red hurt his bum and then he answered her on the injured list or if it would just slow him down ever so slightly straight. You know who's carrying weight so that was one bit of business that i wondered about. I wondered if he thought he had a bunch of spiders on him. If it would make him worse like how many spiders would he think he had on him before he went from being like. I think there's a bug on me to being driven mad. Really by the number of spiders. I arrived at six. Being the number of spiders would have to think he had on him before he would be replacement level basically. I contemplated him. Trying less hard. And i wondered how if we would notice him trying less harshest based on how broad his skill set. Is you know he'd have to try less hard. And a bunch of different ways. And i think that he'd have to be noticeably less good for a while before we would we would ask any questions and then i think my favorite was like what would happen if all he. It was me ben. But ben what would happen. So in two thousand fifteen mitra in response to a question about his diet told the los angeles times as food. I'm eating better and better. My parents taught me to eat my greens. But i was always meet meet meet and now i'm more balanced eating protein and vegetables and staying away from candy. I just wondered what if all all he ate was meat. 'cause 'cause russell carlton has done some good work. On the potential effect. That improved nutrition can have on minor leaguers and how it can elevate their game because they're healthier overall and we've all eaten too much. Meet those of us who eat meat have eaten too much and then like had weird. Meat sweats and felt yucky. And you know you get kind of irregular sometimes and so. I think that that would make him less good if all he ate was me. If it was just me me me me me. Like you've got one of those protein bowls. They have at subway now. Which to me is just a. I think it's just a bowl of meat. Ben subway selling you a bowl of cold cuts. What if my trout on trout super pretzels. Right that i think he would surfing less good at baseball. Because he'd i too much sodium. He he would be all carbs. He wouldn't be getting nutrition he needs. You know like. I think that his his gut would feel funny. So i don't know if that answers your question but this is one of those things where i was like. You know. it's really nice. That sam lets me do stuff so just to bring it back around. This was a nice. Hey let's let me write this. Five grams per serving in the super pretzels looks like a protein. More than i would have expected to actually sodium ben just all wata sodium thirty eight percent of your recommended daily values. And that's just one pretzel dried out dehydrated full carbs. Yeah we've We've done mike trout. Pathetic goals along those lines. We've definitely had mike trout weight gain hypotheticals. There is a long list of our mike trout hypotheticals on the effectively wild wicky which is wonderful and we did have Wet if mike. Trout gained sixty five pounds during the off season. How much of a burden handicapped. What might trout need for. Ben and jeff to beat him in a foot race. We've come up with various other ways to torture. Mike trout or make him worse baseball. Like what if he had fewer fingers was a memorable one. Would if. I had to wear noise cancelling headphones. I think One was just raining on top of mike trout. Only all the time so we've come up with all kinds of ways like if we want to stick to the realm of the realistic here which show we rarely do when it comes to mike trout hypotheticals. Because that's sort of defeats the purpose. But i guess one way if he wanted to do this sneakily guess is that he could be on clutch on purpose so he could be his regular self in like low leverage situations but he could be terrible in high leverage situations. If he were to do that it would not actually affect his war but it would make him a lot less valuable and yet you would continue to play him because his overall stats would still be pretty good and you just think well. He's getting unlucky in the clutch situations. It'll even out so he could hurt a team that way because It's not like he could make himself even better probably in the low leverage situation. So he would be where's overall but he'd be disproportionately bad in the moments when it counts the most so i guess the other thing he could do if he wanted to like. Keep playing but accumulate. Negative war is do the opposite of that so he could be clutch and so he could then provide value to a team but he could be bad at all other times and so his were would still be lousy even though he would be providing some real value and he might still be playable like if mike trout were still mike trout in high levered spots. But we're just a bad player at all at times. I think you would probably still roster him right. I mean overall numbers might not be great. But you'd be getting the best player baseball at the most important moment. So of course you would still want mike trout but his war would suffer because most of his plate appearances would not the highest leverage once. And so it would seem like he was bad and hurting team. It's kind of like the the Holes scenario in recent years where he has been pretty clutch and he has driven in a lot of runs and yet his overall stat line is lousy and his worse have been bad so that's one way he could do it. You know i guess another way is just to like be bad on defense which would be a little less noticeable or like a little less credible i mean his defensive stats have fluctuated and they haven't really been elite since early in his career for the most part so if he to take it easy on defense in his defensive stats would suffer but for a while we would be saying oh well defensive stats an small sample and and all of that and we'll sit. We're very apparent that he were not trying not running at all. So that's something he can do but really be bad for awhile and he would still be getting chances because he is like to this point basically the best player ever so if you show some skill and talent like you will keep catching on. You'll keep getting opportunities because teams will think that there might be still something left and if he hasn't let himself go like if his skills are are still intact for the most part than he would keep getting chances indefinitely that he would bounce back so he could probably be bad for quite a while before they would stop letting him be bad. I mean again not to pick on host. But you don't have to look far from mike trout to find another player who has continued to rack up a ton of playing time without producing a lot of value mostly because he has a track record of being great and is being paid as if he is still great. I like your scenarios because none of them involve maiming. Even the coins thing has the potential to cause some amount of injury and who knows if his digestion whatever recover from all of that world those pretzels. Yeah i think the most interesting thing about these questions is always just how you get a sense. Almost immediately of just. How long leash mike. Trout would be given because he has been the best player in baseball for such a long time. That i think even the like. Hey take a couple of games off to like get your head right. I think that he would probably not be granted that opportunity even if it were beneficial to him. In a non doctor manhattan. I'm trying to accrue negative war scenario but just in a you know like stuff happens in guys lives. They get a little hurt. They would benefit from a couple of days of rest to reset and sort of get their heads focused on baseball again. If they have stuff going on in their personal lives that are destroyed. That's distracting them understandably. And i think that he might be. He might end up pushing through the point at which arrest period makes sense just because he is the best player in baseball. He's the best player on the angels. And you want that guy in the lineup. Every day just based on the potential of all the things he can do even if he hasn't been doing them recently. So even mike trout hypotheticals where we are either making him worse or he is making himself worse. We still walk away saying. Wow my trump's really good baseball. I guess he could allow hunter renfrow to substitute for him. They could do this up fish. Okay okay all right more on that topic coming all right so i'll do one more here because it is also a hypothetical about making a thing that we love worse and i don't know why people are asking about this but will entertain the question so this is from simon who says i was just finishing up episodes sixteen twenty five and was inspired by the questions on overnight baseball a universal strike zone to ask the following. What would baseball look like if you made it. As as possible without removing the core structure of the game. The baseball community often discusses how to make the game more enjoyable for spectators. So it might be worth it to talk about the opposite for a bit. What where's that in. What way. I don't know but Simon says my favorite proposal to reduce the aesthetic quality of the game would be to force of the players to wear uniforms from the big and tall store. Could call back. That's fantastic okay. Well if i were coming up with some that were like a little more serious. I suppose i think the and we'll set aside the really icke like structural changes that you could make baseball that we won't entertain because even progress past them. But the ones that are like i think that if you mandated pitching changes like if you said after every inning after every three outs after how if you if you took a small stretch of time in the game and then required that the pitcher change i think people would stop watching baseball because they would just games are just stretch and stretch and stretch. And we wouldn't we'd we'd very rapidly start seeing less and less talented guys and you would end with position. Players pitching all the time and the novelty of that would wear off entirely and it would just be terrible slog and so i think that would that would be a really detrimental one. I think that if you if you shrunk or expanded the strike zone comically so that it is either so wildly tipped in one side's favour or the other that people would would rapidly lose patients for that. Because you'd end up you know you'd end up with no one getting on base or everyone getting on base and that would be. That would be detrimental. One change that. I know that brennan gajewski has suggested which i actually think would probably make things better and so i will take the opposite of it. He has he has wondered if we if we shouldn't make fielders gloves smaller that it's harder to catch the ball and thus you would end up with more balls in play because it's harder to catch them so then what if we made them really really big. I mean it would be funny for like a day and you probably would still end up with some some odd like errors in the field that would result in guys getting on base because those are cumbersome. How big would you have to make the clubs before it would cease to be an advantage would actually be a detriment to like at a certain point like if you made the glove so big that it would just cover the entire outfield and you just stuck your hand in the side of it away so that you could literally catch every ball. That would be cheating. I suppose that goes against the spirit of the question. If we assume that you have to be able to like lift the glove and move it and it's like made out of leather and heavy then there is a point at which like it would just be hard to run with the thing so if you're carrying just like a fire department life net size glove than you're just like teetering under five ball. I don't know exactly where the trade off is between size and surface area and wait in agility if you had like that jeff franker novelty glove. That was way over sized. Like as big as maybe his chest to the top of his head but it still fit on his hand. That would probably be beneficial. I think that the answer to this question is that in a spring training game we should have a variety of of gloves on the field and they should increase in size by ten percent each and then because you needed you know we needed as an experiment. We need to do an experiment. And then after size husband determine then we can start monitoring with weights at spring. Training says a matter like us. Let us enjoy something. Yeah they're ways. I think to make baseball. Where so it's easier to ruin something. I think than to make something that we already like a lot better so we talk a lot about making baseball better. We talk less about making baseball worse. Both because we don't want it to be worse and because there are just so many ways you could do it. Like i don't know you could just make the ball completely dead making it a little more dead than it is right now. Might actually be better. That seems like a good idea but making it so dead that it's like deader than dead ball and it just is like a sopping piece of paper and it doesn't go anywhere then. That would kill baseball pretty quickly so there are a lot of ways. You can do that. Sam actually answered this one because this was sent back in december and he wrote my as far as i know never mentioned favourite proposal to make. Baseball terrible has been that all fielders must be emotion when the pitch comes in. They can be anywhere. They want running in any direction they want but they have to be running which I can see why that would make baseball worse of. Oh i would imagine that it would soon be exploited by players suit just like like what is running exactly you know it. Is it like you're making a move like a lot of players are in motion to a degree when the pitcher's throwing their leaning one way maybe they're taking a step or something so i guess it depends like if you had them have to reach a certain minimum speed so that they really had to like get going and back up and then sprint to where they would normally be in their position and motion as the pitch was crossing the plate. That would be pretty fun and would also probably make them worse. It might help if the ball happened to be hit in the right direction but the momentum would be carrying them in one way and if the ball did not go that way it would be pretty difficult so yet that would probably make baseball. Where's yeah yeah but again like for the first couple times we saw. We think it was great. Yeah it would be. Like a line of scrimmage sort of situation where you'd have like you can't cross a certain point before the pitches thrown or like you have to attain a certain speed before the throw it in and then what happens if you don't is a flag thrown on the play is there just a ball assessed because the left fielder wasn't sprinting. At the right time yourself they. I don't know that that would be bad. I think that would be fun for a little while for a spring training game but after that would be bad so trying to come up with creative ideas to make baseball worse but also fun but You mentioned when we were talking about this before just like scoring with the strike zone way which shed sam has actually suggested that as like a thing that he wants like having no strikes on all but but if you did make the strike zone huge or tiny there could be some effects there that you would not want if the strike zone word just like the width of one ball or something. Then everyone would walk constantly and if it were than probably everyone would just strike out so yeah you could ruin the sport very easily. Yeah it doesn't take a lot which is why all we invite experimentation and trying things we also think that those experiments should have a relatively short leash on the show. Ill-effects say no. That didn't do what i want. Let us move on or you could just have. All the players have a lot of coins in their pockets. Only disgust i. Wouldn't i would never mandate diet anyone because there's all sorts of things that go into that but only eat one thing that seems like whatever that one thing is i mean. They're probably exceptions to this. I'm not a nutritionist. Talked to real nutritionist. Before you decided to only eat one thing we it's different kinds of things. I guess except not offense. We've established that on this show. Were going offense if think about stuff And he chuck peterson's that want to slip in there Let's see one time jack. Petersen wore a knit beanie and giant mittens in a postseason game when it was like sixty degrees and i worry about how he will adopt to chicago based on that. I think that los angeles may have his blood. So that's a concern. I don't know. What do i have to say about dr peterson this year. I wish that offensively it had gone a little bit better for him but he did hit two postseason home runs and had a one sixty-eight wrc plus in thirty seven postseason at bats. And so we're going to give marcus simeon a little bit of grace for his postseason line and what that suggests about. His overall performance is think that we have to do the same thing for jock so cubs fans. He's a good player. That hopefully your team deploys. Well put him in a position to succeed and it's nice to see the cubs do a thing as we'll say again. Maybe every player could wear giant mittens. And beanie like jack peterson. That would probably make baseball worse. Yeah that would probably make maybe not the beanie. They already have hats. On and in april they they might be grateful for something a little bit warmer than Than just a baseball cap. Although i suppose they do fit the little hoodie deals on under. They're the little You know f- leisure but you wear them when it's cold and you have to be outside but you need something that is in bulk so breaking cubs news. Has we finish up here. Sources have confirmed. David caplan that tom. Ricketts has recently increased the cubs player payroll for twenty twenty one. This has allowed. Jed hoyer some flexibility to reshape his roster in a division the cubs view as winnable. So how about that slightly loosening. The purse strings. Perhaps not like to sign someone huge but I bruce levine tweeted that the cubs are in pursuit of some veteran arms listing carlos raton and jeff samardzija as two possibilities they will be throwing for the cubs and cheery etta too. So don't get too excited cups fence. But they might actually do something. I guess. We no longer have to say that daniel also is their biggest position player. Free agents of the past few years or or post hayward eric. Peterson's probably a little bit better than that stubborn slim pickens in post darvish deal years. So perhaps they are not quite dud adding on the one hand. I want to be snarky about this decision. Coming or at least being reported will be fair on january twenty ninth but on the other hand there are still a lot of very good and serviceable free agents available to sign. So maybe it doesn't matter. They should pick up faulty. Maybe and they can further their goal to have the slowest throwing rotation modern history. That would be fun. We'll be fine all right. We will end their one. Quick correction. I got a tweet from someone who said did people yell at you for calling them assistant captains in hockey that was in episode. Sixteen forty eight answer. No no one has yelled at me about that yet. But i'm correcting the record. Regardless it is not assistant captains or to captain or assistant to the regional. Captain it is alternate captain my apologies to the hockey heads out there. I have great respect for your sport. Lastly i want to extend my congratulations to craig late of fan graphs. Who got himself. A new gig. Craig had been shamed grass for six years. He has joined us on the podcast several times to talk about prospect valuation baseball economics and various other topics and as he announced friday he is leaving fan graphs to join the major league baseball players association as it senior analyst for economics and collective bargaining which sounds like an exciting opportunity. He's going from writing about economic issues in the sport to actually influencing them. So my best craig. He really had a knack for explaining complicated subjects in digestible ways and obviously the players association picked up on that ability that he has so. It's always sad to see an established and valued member of the baseball block. Sphere move on and take their work closed doors. But i'm sure he'll continue to do great work and maybe we'll be able to have him on again some time down the road to talk about what it's like on the inside and if you wanna try to be the new craig. Edwards fan crafts is hiring part time writers. I will link to meg's post about that in case you're interested in applying. That will do it for this week. You can all support effectively wild on patriot by going to petri on dot com slash effectively. Wild appalling listeners have already signed up and played some snowmobiling out to help. Keep the podcast. Going and themselves access to some perks. Sam raker mike lehrman john walrus lang hummer loss. Gusta guard and kelvin brown. Thanks to all of you. You can our facebook group at facebook dot com slash slash effectively wild kuchen rate view and subscribed to effectively wild on i tunes and spotify and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me and meg coming. Don't all have to be at baseball. My trap being worse than they are at podcast fan graphs dot com or via the nesting system. If you are a supporter of higgins for his editing assistance we will be back with another episode early next week abbey wonderful weekend and he will talk to you soon. Down and Day you and me a bag.

baseball molina cardinals nba wainwright rockies arnaldo russell goldstein frank sofala peterson chris o wayne Bay s Jim spiritual south bend minor league hafer
Vaccines, election security, remembering Frank Kelley.  Sam Inglot of Progress Michigan on govt. transparency

Michigan Policast

1:08:11 hr | 5 months ago

Vaccines, election security, remembering Frank Kelley. Sam Inglot of Progress Michigan on govt. transparency

"This pandemic is not over and we must all continues to remain vigilant. Must have good news. Is we have the tools that we need to fight this. Pandemic back over sixty million americans have been vaccinated across the country and over. Two point two million michiganders' have ever seen these safe and effective vaccine. Federal and state. Health officials warned that we may be spiking the ball on the ten yard line. Which makes it a big fumble even as politicians ease up on precautions. I wall sword. Yeah i i really bristle. At the That characterization governor moves to relax restrictions on restaurants in nursing homes. But i knew controversy over big payouts to departing official. Is a big distraction from the battle against the virus. I'm christine berry. This is michigan. Podcast with walt sorghum. Christine berry michigan politics policy and a national stories impacting our pleasant peninsulas. Later in the podcast. We'll be joined by progress. Michigan sam england on a petition drive aimed at finally bringing some openness to the legislature. And the governor's office but first let's go for dinner today. We are announcing at restaurants and bars can operate at fifty percent capacity. That's up from twenty-five percent. I'm also pleased that we can now allow visitations and nursing. Homes to governor makes a move that's popular with a lot of constituencies but that doesn't include public health officials while it's not as extreme as the things wide open mandates in texas mississippi and other red states fill runs counter to the advice from the head of the cdc richelle wolinsky the numbers remain concerning cases are still too high and have now told hold for more than a week at levels we saw during the late summer. Surge following six weeks of steady declines. This is why. I'm asking you to double down on our prevention measures. I know the idea of relaxing mask. Wearing and getting back to everyday activities is appealing. But we're not there yet and we have seen this movie before when prevention measures like mask mandates or roll back his but for michigan the mask mandate stays in place and that is good. Thing contrasts michigan's cautious approach to texas where governor abbott threw caution to the wind and said y'all come on down now everything's wide open and masks are no longer necessary. Dr walinsky noted a new. Cdc study that basically calls that decision. A death sentence for an awful lot of texans researchers found that increases in both daily rates and cova cases and deaths slowed significantly within twenty days of putting mask mandates into place and protective effect of the mass fans. Aids ru stronger over time in contrast increases daily deference of covid nineteen cases and deaths real more quickly within forty to eighty days following restaurants being allowed to resume on premises dining this report is the critical reminder that with the current levels of covid nineteen in communities and the continued spread of more transmissible virus variants which have now been detected in forty eight states strictly following prevention measures remains essential for putting an end to this pandemic it also serves as a warning about prematurely lifting prevention measures. Here's what abbott did. In his executive order he said that there are no limits on any business or other establishment unless the local hospitals have a high hospitalization rate and he said that no local jurisdiction can order establishments to close to less than fifty percent regardless of the hospital. Stace if norton they impose any kind of penalty for not wearing a mask. I don't have much to add to what dr will lonski said but only about thirteen percent of texas has been vaccinated walter or so many bowl. Noble people there and new variants coming in well. Not only that. That gets spring break coming in and in southern neil along the The gulf coast. That can be a really big deal. I said at the beginning. It's like spiking the ball and a ten yard line Another football comparison which hope fans would understand is its first and goal at the ten yard line. We can see the goal line in our sights. But that means you don't give up on the fundamentals you continue to block you. Continue to tackle you. Continue to fight and for covert the vet. The fundamentals are social distancing and wearing a mask. And you've got to keep up with the fundamentals to we crossed the goal line. And we aren't just ain't there yet and we've got a long ways to go until we've got the herd immunity that we need. the state. now is not the time to let up united as tempting as it is. I'm not going out to a restaurant right now. I ordered order. Take out the other night. And that's gonna continue to do for a long time. I'm not going to sit down at a restaurant. I'm certainly not taken off my masks. And i assume you're doing the same. Yep exactly the same although Good news is. I will be eligible for the vaccine very soon with us. 'cause you're not as old as me well The new restrictions ease up on indoor dining retail and entertainment venues. These can increase to fifty percent with a cap at three hundred people. The governor's hadn't come visits can resume. Conditions are met. And you know these are things that we're doing as well as other things that are also against the advice of dr landscape because as you said we are we are almost there and as she said there's been a two percent increase nationwide in both the seven day average of cases and the seven day ever of deaths. So we absolutely like. we're at the cusp. We absolutely have to hang on. We'll be talking about the change at the top of the michigan department of health and human services a little bit later but one thing that we came up as speculation senator. Jeff irwin mentioned this. That it is very likely he feels that robert gordon resigned because he objected to the governor lifting the restrictions on restaurants. He didn't think it was a good idea and so he he had to leave. His resignation was announced at the same time that the governor started easing up on the restrictions on restaurants. I think she is beginning violent. Feel the political pressure to move on something. She's trying to stay one step ahead of the legislature but in the process she lost her rector of health and human services and the to it. Looks like the to actually May be very well related. There was one good piece of good news this week in the covert battle. Besides vaccinations going up and that came from national tennessee vaccine that seen back see. I'm magna hesitate that scene vaccine. That scene that see once you're in that submit to american treasure dolly. Parton waited her. Turn in line for the vaccine even after donating one million dollars for its development and she split braided in a purely dolly way. Michigan has now asked the two million mark in initial vaccinations with supplies. Ramping up. it comes even as infectious hospitalizations and deaths are plateauing. After two months of reductions state health director. Dr johnny sheldon cases are now at about ninety one cases per million people slightly lower than where we were the previous week test. Positivie is now at three point. Seven percent has increased slightly from three point five percent the previous week. This is similar to where we were in the beginning of october this past week. The most reported new outbreaks included k. Through twelve schools followed by manufacturing and construction and long term care facilities overall long term. Care facilities still have the most ongoing outbreaks and make over forty percent of all reported ongoing outbreaks. We are also still concerned about the be one one seven variant that has been identified in the state so far there have been four hundred and twenty two identify cases of the b. One seven variant about two thirds of those have been associated with outbreak at a correctional facility. But there are other places in the state or do not know where those individuals became infected with the variant which means there is likely some undetected spread occurring in the community and the good news for michigan is of course the johnson and johnson vaccine is being shift and we'll be getting a lot of those doses in the state during this week so we can increase vaccinations but detroit mayor. Mike duggan caused a small firestorm when he initially said he didn't want the new johnson johnson vaccine for detroiters because it wasn't as good. He was immediately contradicted by dr anthony. Fauci we have three highly efficacious back scenes with a very good safety profile. Each of them are very effective in preventing clinically apparent disease but importantly all three of them have a very important effect of being extraordinarily effective in preventing severe disease and particularly preventing hospitalizations and deaths. That's point number one. It's a question if you go in and a vaccine is available to you. I would take the first available vaccine because the most important thing to do is to get vaccinated and not to try and figure out what one may or may not be better than the oven and while if you look at Some of the links are shown out there is one that breaks down how the testing worked and so the johnson and johnson vaccine test numbers. Make it look like that. Vaccines is not as effective as the other shoe. But that's because the tests aren't aunt parody. It's not really apples and apples. They were developed at different times and there developed in different ways. The johnson and johnson is one shot and it doesn't have the same handling requirements as the other two. So i think what doug did was probably misunderstand. The different testing context. And maybe it was just strong. Speak from someone who was thinking how important it was to build confidence because what he said was there's going to get the best for detroiters but he didn't recognize the impact of saying johnson and johnson was good but not the best and so after that he did after clearly walk backwards address. What he said another challenge we have with vaccines the partisan split over who is willing to be vaccinated. Recent gallup poll of likely voters forty seven percent of republicans said they do not plan to get vaccinated compared with forty six percent. Who do plan ticket at the vaccine. The that is like half and half you know and if the line with everything else let's going on in that party half and half skews young Older people by far are willing and wanting to get the vaccine. I've got something here. I've been saving for a while. The press release. I got from the governor's office one year ago. This wednesday march tenth. Twenty twenty governor gretchen whitmer the department of health and human services and the oakland county health division in wayne county health department announced today the two michigan residents tested presumptive positive for coronavirus disease covid nineteen. The first confirmed cases in the state. That was one year ago this wednesday. How far we've come now with nearly sixteen thousand michiganders' killed by this virus in the last year and the numbers have stabilized but they are still at a very high level We've got a long way to go. Like i said before We can't we can't give up blocking and tackling yet because we're still on the ten yard line. Were not in the end zone by any means. I just want to remind people to understand. This is going to be a very tough time for a lot of people in the detroit area because We are coming on the time when they just basic their ass kicked by covid nineteen. I lost five friends all within a couple of weeks and it was such a painful time. So keep your friends in mind as they go through this horrible anniversary another poll. That was run by epic. Mri the governor's approach to the pandemic still has the support of the majority of michiganders. But that support is drinking. She still gets a positive job. Approval rating that key to percents forge zeppelin percent. Her favorability rating is forty nine percent positive to forty four percent. So it's it's clear that her her work is still supported by the majority of michiganders' but also that this past year has just been a trying time. We even sixty nine percent giving the michigan economy negative rating which is up from forty nine percent last summer. It'll be in the shutouts. it's tough it's tough time. It's also very cynical time to people. After the last year. I think are exhausted with politicians and government and everything else in the epic. Emory poll both joe biden and gretchen whitmer. Visually pulled identically on favorability biden. It was forty nine forty five widmer forty nine forty four trump by the way came in at forty percent favorable fifty five percent unfavorable and kamala harris came at forty six forty two so kind of breaks down along the partisan split in michigan but people are much happier about as you say The way the governor's handling the problem. That is coming down But she joe biden still get positive marks. I suspect that biden's remarks especially are gonna come up quite a bit now that the congress has reached agreement on the covid relief bill. And we're all going be getting a huge deposit into our checking accounts are getting a large check in the next few days and you may recall. We mentioned a problem that they had that the could have been a political firestorm. Had they not addressed it in. That was the fact. That unemployment benefits are taxable. One of the things included in the covid. Relief bill is to make the first ten thousand two hundred dollars of unemployment benefits last year. Tax exempt. so if you're in a ten percent tax bracket where most people are gonna be if They've lost their job and they're living on unemployment. That's a thousand dollars more in their pocket that they're gonna have to pay up to the irs. At least that was one crisis averted in the bill and the overall bill wall street loves it. Because it's going to richard really pump up. The economy increased demand because it is putting a lot of money into the economy right away whether it's for schools whether it's state and local governments whether it is for critical infrastructure projects such as mass transit. Which is very important to getting people vaccinated. That's why they're shoring up mass transit. I know the bus system here in lansing is bleeding cash because people aren't writing on it as much because of the pandemic yet if the buses stop running. How are people gonna get to the vaccine. Yeah exactly we need. We have to get the money into the economy and that includes the money here at the state level that republicans in the legislature continue their assault on the governor's emergency powers using billions in federal covert relief. Money as their weapon effectively putting michigan citizens right in the middle of their tantrum and other things senate majority leader. Mike shuki wants michigan to pretty much. Follow the leader of passes a state which happens to have one of the worst infection rate increases in the nation already governor greg abbott effective next wednesday all businesses of any type are allowed to open one hundred percent then include any type of entity in texas. Also i'm ending the statewide mask mandate. Let's say you were governor. What what would you do something similar. Not exactly the same similar. What governor amazon texas mike. Mike you hitching your wagon. The taxes are you using example and identifying reinforcing that. We've all learned what to do with this past year to stay and remain safe and continue to chris to do so then. Let's businesses and organizations start determining whether it's safe for them when let them start determining what safe for them to start opening up to capacity. And what does joe biden. Think of that approach. Last thing is neanderthal. Thinking that in the meantime everything's fine. Take off your mask forget it. It still matters. Shuki was interviewed on jackson's w k h m and It's interesting that he said that we have all learned what to do. When you just heard all that applause when greg abbott said no more mask mandate the you know the people who they're pandering to haven't learned anything. The logic is people are gonna do the responsible thing because they know what to do. Well we all know that. It is irresponsible to drink and drive. We all know that it's irresponsible to murder people. It we still have laws for those who choose to be responsible. And there's a good reason for that. It's because people will be irresponsible on dimes. It's maybe considered an insult of those of us who wouldn't consider drinking and driving and those of us who wouldn't consider murdering somebody but still the laws need to remain on the books the what the republicans in lansing have done is tied some of this aid that we've been given they've tied it to legislation that would prevent the state health department from issuing orders that ban in person classes or stop sporting events due to covid nineteen it also restricts it restricts what local health departments would be allowed to do so i think i think it was Johnny hell doing who is talking about an outbreak at a facility in this legislation that the republicans have written local health. Departments could not consider outbreaks at correctional facilities and the republicans are framing. This as an opportunity for the governor to check her and help people so here we are again with this attitude that started in lame duck before she even with office about restricting the executive and expanding were legislature and unfortunately they're holding up the millions of dollars in aid that would give people relief and get our economy going and this idiot shuki goes on the radio and says i just want to open up like texas. Although you know. I'm just using that as an example. Know senate leader mike. You can't say anything and actually standby it. It is and it's only going to get worse as we go down the pike because this new covert relief act that the president will be signing probably. This week provides billions of dollars in aid for michigan state government. So it's going to give the michigan legislature. Even more money not to spend until gretchen. Whitmer gives them their way so this fight to go on for weeks and weeks not months and it's only gonna get nastier nastier and not helping things is. The governor gave the republicans some ammunition for their political war with some controversial going away presence for the former d. h. h. s. director. We mentioned as well as two other. Top appointed officials whitmer was pretty angry about defending the payouts. As a common business practice which it is in the private sector not so much so when you talk about the government separation agreement here question are used often and the public and private sector when someone in a leadership position leaves an organization and due to the nature of the agreement. There's not a lot more. That i can say honest subject however i do want to say There were not any improprieties with director gordon's work. It's simply that. He tendered his resignation. And i accepted it and appointed a new director elizabeth hertel who has hit the ground running shoes doing incredible work and she needed to put her own team together at. Hhs so that we can stay laser. Focus on ramping up efforts and and this pandemic and get to life back to life as normal sooner. So i'm going to have to respect the nature of the separation agreement but i'll say that i did really appreciate roberts work and i wish him well in the future. She's getting a lot of heat on this. And i think rightly so The separation agreements are not common in government. Although i've got to admit to. When i left a government agency position many years ago i had a separation agreement which both sides agreed to. I didn't leave under hostile circumstances by any means there was no impropriety. Trust me on that but we just decided to As a part of my departure I was given some additional Severance pay and moved on. It does happen from time to time but it is not very common like the governor said well. I think this would have been a smaller problem still a problem. The smaller problem had we just said he's leaving. And these are the terms of our supper while not the terms of our separation agreement but we have as separate separation agreement in place or not going to speak about the details but we are going to go in a different direction. I think everyone understands that. Robert gordon was just about science and governor. Whitman has to balance the science and the public health and the economy and education. She has to balance everything. And so yes. There's this much of a risk because of what you say with the science. But there's this other risk over here of the kids at getting educated or other things happening in the state. So i don't see any problem with them separating based on different priorities and i really don't even see a problem with a separation agreement. It just feels like if you have a separation agreement you should just come right out and say it because it is the public sector. It's not a private company. Although the people who are really beating on her want us to run government like a business. So there you go. And all of this is being exacerbated by lines that are being propagated on social media regarding what the governor has been doing. There are a lot of people on social media who believed. She made the decision to shut down the schools which simply isn't true. Most of the decisions on schools and in person versus virtual learning are being made at the local level by school boards and superintendents and that was a deliberate decision of the governor the health department and the legislature greened all of that shell hasn't shutdown michigan's economy by any means yes. She has put severe restrictions on the hospitality industry and restaurants. But those are those are loosening a little bit gyms are open now and virtually every business is free to open. They just have some restrictions at how they have to operate so. That's a long ways from shutting down the economy yet. That's the story on a lot of these social media for these groups like you know on facebook. There's an impeach gretchen whitmer site. And there's a still john james site although he's all already in the rear view mirror and a few others where they just rail against everything that she hasn't done as well as things that she has done so it's a it's a real problem you ought to move on. I think it's okay. let's move on. Let's talk about something that we've been debating since november and that is the election. Well the numbers are getting wrapped. Up secretary of state jocelyn benson is just wrapped up a massive audit of election results around the state or what they do basically is take a lot of precincts around the state at random and have the local clerks republicans democrats and independents audit. Those results with hand recounts of the precincts and match them against the machines reported on election day and what they found in each and every one of the more than two hundred fifty audits they conducted is that michigan's election was the most secure in our state's history and the results accurately reflect the will of voters this finding eradicates any rationale for continuing to question the integrity of the election and the validity of the outcome and what they found two there were some very minor differences in vote totals. You had some of balanced precincts were. The number of ballots. Cast did not exactly match the number of ballots recorded as being cast but the differences were really minuscule out of balance precincts simply do not merit the criticism that has been heaped on them by officials seeking to undermine faith in the elections of some of our most populous cities. These efforts are dangerous. Racist and undertaken for personal and political gain. They are also completely meritless. As proven by these audits and must be treated as such in the future. No leader or personal power elected or otherwise should have played political games with the integrity of our elections. But those who did must stop now. And then there's this guy and his complaints about detroit selection. We have a little problem adjusting in detroit. We seem to have more votes than we have. People a lot more votes and election changing number. We're not talking about a number where you know. These are election changing numbers. The lie that people voted has long been devan devonian's long before any state. Legislators recently said it Corks rejected the absentee ballots of thousands of voters. Who cast them while alive and died before election day and so so we hope that similarly legislative leaders that have wrongly tried to spread that misinformation in recent weeks will again stop doing so look at the truth and affirm that these results of the elections were accurate to all of their constituents. And that's the end of that story. We would hope but in reality. Republicans are using these allies about election fraud including the false stories about detroit as a nationwide effort to make it harder to vote. This election was rigged and the supreme court and other courts didn't want to do anything about it motor suppression laws bills. I should say going through statehouses state senates across the country. You know what well. These are really really racist. I found it amazing. That in a supreme court hearing on the voting rights case coming out of arizona a republican attorney representing the republican party said out loud that the reason they didn't want the court to rule in one direction was it would make it harder for republicans to win elections. That should not be the basis for election laws. Election law should be based on the idea that everybody every citizen has the right to vote and the government shouldn't get in the way of that right to vote but republicans are arguing very openly that we want to get in the way of that right to vote. Because if we don't do that we're gonna lose elections and that's the philosophy behind the voting rights act and the protect of the people act. That just passed the house of representatives and is now in the senate. The problem in the senate is they. Gotta out a way to get to pass mitch. mcconnell republicans. hate this bill. They are already lying about it saying that it's going to cause all sorts of election fraud using as their excuse the election fraud they allege happened last november. That didn't happen but they don't really care about that. They've got their stories. They've been you'd with the help of donald trump have been propagating them for months and months and months. So that's the excuse for making it harder for people mostly people of color and for young people to vote. This is finally going to be what kills the filibuster in the senate because the only way they're going to get through this bill through in the senate in the next two years is to get rid of the filibuster and do it on a party line. Vote republicans to a person. Do not want to change the laws in favor of making it easier to vote because they know that could be the death knell for the republican party in many states and possibly keep them out of the white house for a long time. I find it absolutely reprehensible what they're doing and i just thank heavens that in michigan we amended our constitution to make it very hard for voter suppression to take place in the state. It's interesting that these things are being said out loud. We have had times in the past when people have said the quiet things out loud like we have to suppress the detroit voter. We're never gonna win anything or something like that. That is an accident but decades ago people were talking about how we never want to see the electoral college. Go away a racist construct. If there ever was won the electoral college. We never want to see it. Go away because more people both those the less likely we are to win trump. And this whole sense of entitlement with the nationalist. If you will. And what kind of has done to the courts people feel emboldened they feel entitled to say. We're not going to make it easier for you equal person to vote as it is for me it's reprehensible as you say it's also also stunning. It's unbelievable that we got this far and they keep saying the mail in voting is open to fraud and anything is open to fraud. If people try hard enough that they can find ways to fry but is incredibly difficult to organize. mass voter. fraud is gonna impact the outcome of an election. They have been doing nothing but vote by mail in five states west now several election cycles and there are absolutely no reports of widespread voter fraud in colorado or washington or utah. Our away california's now implementing an all male in process. And it works. It's simply works. And when it's fully implemented it also saves money because you don't have to have as many polling places you have a longer time for voters to cast an informed vote because they've got their ballots sitting on their dining room table and if they've got a question about candidate or a question about a ballot proposal. That's on that ballot. They can get online or they can talk to their friends and get more information about whatever it is there. They need more information about so that they're they're not making snap decisions. Based on some prejudice when they walk into the voting booth it is all about power and maintaining power and quite honestly destroying the of representative democracy. They don't want a representative democracy. They want an oligarchy. Or at least a situation where it's mostly white people you know. The country started when only white male landowners were allowed to vote. If you are a woman or you were a person of color and certainly if you're a slave you had no vote we've evolved from that. They say well let's go back with the founders intended the founders intended for this to be an autocracy where the the rich people basically called all the shots. You didn't have direct election. The united states senate. He didn't have women voting. You didn't have. We had slavery in half the country. So it's we've come a long way from there but now they're trying to kind of go backwards and move back towards that system and i just find that horrible. Yeah and. I don't want to carry this on too much longer or get off on a tangent but i feel like i might be the only one in the country who just doesn't care what the founders intended i appreciate the constitution but they did make it possible change because they knew that the people may want to change direction in this country. Why do i care what the founders intended now. The founders never envisioned a world like this and we'll talk around powdered wigs again. I saw a discussion on link the other day. Jeb livengood this great this great article out a week or two ago about term limits and lee chatfield and somebody mentioned that those of us who support term limits envisioned these gentlemen going to serve their state or their community whatever and then coming home after a short period of time and return to their farm or they're placed business and work under the laws that they passed. I refer you to george washington and thomas jefferson and all this kind of stuff and i thought it's a romanticized view of something that doesn't apply right now. That's just a that's kind of where that's coming from. I just set aside with the founders intended set aside what they did and you know take a look at the world that you live in right now and that's far more relevant to what we're dealing with. You know you get the two sides you've got the originalists who say every we gotta go exactly with original intent which i find ridiculous and we've got those like you and me that the constitution was designed to be a living breathing. Document that adjusts itself as circumstances. Change i really. Don't think the thomas jefferson the iphone. I don't think envision the internet or with the founders think of our podcast. Hello yeah so. We're kind of like the printing press with the twenty first century another area that has evolved tremendously in government but hasn't evolved. Enough is the inability of michigan state government to provide accountability and openness to the public a petition. Drive has been announced to deal with one aspect of that failing the petition would open up all government records in the legislature and governor's office to the public by repealing loopholes. In the freedom of information act the petition drive will be spearheaded by the liberal activist group. Progress michigan sam england from progress michigan. Thanks for joining us on. The pali cast the petition. Drive your launching on ethics. It seems to be in parallel. With some efforts that are underway in the legislature. Right now especially some of those being led by the speaker of the house but usually goes a lot further. How what are some of the things that's going to cover. I think it's or to frame this conversation right. Why we're doing this so Michigan has some of the worst ethics in transparency rankings in the entire country An end at least a piece of that puzzle is the fact that michigan is only one of two states where the governor and the legislature are exempt from foia. Now that's the freedom of information act correct freedom of information act. Which is you know how the public the media get access to communications in documents that relate to government and public policy people want transparent and accountable government. We wanna make sure that government is truly of buying for the people and not being done. You know just on behalf of the the lobbyists with the most money in their pockets or the you know the corporate interests that bankrolled campaigns in the reason that we decided to launch this ballot initiative. Because we're sort of tired of the same song dance that we hear in the legislature seems on a regular basis. What's happening right now in the legislature as relates. Boya isn't all that different from what we've seen in the past. Typically what happens is a foia. Bill expansion buckets brought up. It passes the us with flying colors and then it goes to the republican controlled senate to die and so it allows all these lawmakers to pad their resumes with. I voted on with it. Seems almost the the knowledge that it will never actually go anywhere. And so we're saying okay enough of those games we're going to just take this directly to the people and we're going to have them vote on it and we think there will be you just outpouring of public support for this effort because inherently people want transparent and accountable government getting the signatures for a petition. Drive is a monumental process requires Nearly a half million signatures just for statutory initiative. What are the plans in terms of timing and also are you partnering up with any organizations to get those signatures. Yeah we're definitely gonna have some some some partners along this effort you know. The the beauty of this wall is that we really. We have time to build this thing up our plans to get. That's on the november twenty twenty two ballot of which gives us a lot of time to talk to the community. Educate the public around the issue. Really build a solid campaign on and then When it comes time to collect signatures get that piece done. You're right that is a. It's a tough effort there right getting over three hundred and forty thousand signatures. Which is what we would need to put this on. The ballot is no small task based on the public support that we see based on the fact that this issue continually gets brought up in doesn't go anywhere that there will be an appetite for a while we don't have any specific timelines yet on when we will start the signature gathering process. We have a lot of time between now in twenty twenty to get this thing done in addition to needing a lot of signatures and hopefully help from a lot of volunteers any petition drive requires substantial amount of money as well. Do you have funding commitments for this proposal. That's something that were that were that were working on getting. We have roughly will less than two years to make this thing work. And you know it's it's a you need money to help get signatures and sort of build the campaign infrastructure and then you also need you know resources to tell people about it right and those are things that will be working on building in conjunction partners Over the coming months our plan is to roll out the actual language of itself during sunshine Which is a kind of a national pseudo holiday where government transparency is talked about in push for during the week of march fourteenth and twentieth. So within the next two weeks. We'll have some finalize language to present to the public and from there we start building this thing and get ready to sail for twenty and twenty two. There are a lot of good government reforms that are needed to really improve michigan score when it comes to sunshine and government. Why did you decide to take on this piece of the effort. I reinvent formation as opposed to ethics reform or public funding of campaigns and the sorts of things. Sheriff's i've got. I've got two pieces to that answer. I'll start the first one so since been at progress michigan which is coming up on eight years now. Foyer reform has been something that has really been a key issue of are something that we've talked about a lot. Something that we have supported previous efforts on legislatively in bringing a a tool of government accountability that we have used to great effect. You're right as i mentioned one piece of the puzzle. We think access to information is key to finding out how government is working and how our elected officials may not be working on behalf of the people you know it was through the freedom of information. Act that progress michigan discovered knee of issues with the present privatized prison food contract of under the administration when they were finding maggots in the food. Drug dealing You know sex with inmates and things like that going on because of this privatize food contract. That was something that we discovered through foia at the same time when the water crisis We're able to obtain documents showing that while the snyder administration was telling people in flint. Oh the water is safe to drink. it's fine. They were secretly shipping in bottled water to stink buildings state employees in flint. So it really just kind of opens the door to the different levers and pulleys and buttons of government that make all these public services go and gives a watchdogs the publican constituents and the media an opportunity to see how things are going to for problems too you know again. It is supposed to be government of buying for the people. This is public information that belongs to us so we should be able to look at it and assess. How are things going. So that's kind of one piece in an where we've seen. The power of the freedom of information act in having more transparent and accountable government exposing some of the problems that just kind of taking a peek under the hood and seeing how things are going at the same time. Another thing that i believe. We've talked about before that we're looking to start up again. This year are lobbying reform ballot initiative. That is something that we haven't got blast out in a press. Release or anything like that just yet. But when calvin hit that kind of sidelined are lobbying reform initiative and we are fully planning on picking that up and running with it for twenty twenty two as well so we think between parity in state government in transparency in the lobbying culture of state government. That can go a long way in moving michigan up from the bottom of the barrels far ethics in transparency goes And restore and rebuild some trust and confidence in our public institutions. As you said you are going to be seeking out. Some partners in terms of organizations is there a role for individuals who might want to get involved so hundred. They do it. Yeah i would say You can go to close lansing loopholes dot com and sign up by email list. There will also be having a tax program and things like that coming out soon like this is something that we are building that we are we want in will need broad support non to make this thing happen and you can check out progress michigan dot org sauce and social media will be inundated with information there. And if you're interested in seeing some of the work that already went into the lobby reform proposal you can check out closing loopholes dot com sam. You know it's it's amazing. But i've been following this issue in the legislature on and offer nearly fifty years and it seems like it never come to fruition. Good luck and making it happen. Appreciate it similar from progress michigan. Well it's time for some quick political notes leading off another maga. Opponet for freshman congressman. Peter meyer of grand rapids and this is a maga who is very serious about her trump. love it so rose wild take it. This is audrey. Johnson of kent county. She picked up the name maga bride after her trump themed wedding where she wore a mog address and everyone had to wear a trump hats and whatever else maga people do at a freaky trump seemed wedding. Although it's gonna look good on our website those pictures well she's also one of the three women who had to be forcibly removed from the capitol building in lansing because it was closed to the public that day. And she went on karen on them saying that she was assaulted for trying to exert her constitutional rights so that the maga address that she wore to her wedding qualifies her for congress and the trump heartbe of treason. She has announced her intention to run but she has not yet filed with the f. b. c. And she joins. Tom norton who announced his intention. Shortly after peter myers impeachment vote in the primary but there will be new congressional districts by the time she runs our. He runs again so on house. What's going to happen. Speaking of maga republicans. There is a new potential. Republican opponent for gretchen. Whitmer on the scene. It is multimillionaire lena epstein. She ran for an open. Us house seat suburban detroit in two thousand eighteen. She lost a hayley stevens in that election. She co owns vesco oil corporation. Which makes her very very wealthy. And she's registered or committee has officially announced yet If props out to david exe from the associated press who uncovered this on twitter Interesting for her talk with a reformer republican now. An independent friend of mine. Who said yet. She's another magi nut and if she runs against whitmer. Gretchen should coast to reelection. Fingers crossed. Then good news for state senate majority leader might shirty. I know that makes you happy. The man who is holding up federal funds for covid relief still somehow has managed cash in personally on federal now. S- turkey is the founder and owner of orbit form which is a manufacturing place in jackson. It makes custom parts and pieces in which it's and whatnot and orbit forum just received one point seven million dollar load in federal assistance. This is the company's second loan from the federal paycheck protection program. They received one point. Eight million last april and turkey is one of the leaders of the obstruction of everything. Are admiral aid. You know money is stuck in the legislature. He's obstructing that. The governor's pandemic prevention efforts. Yep constructs that he even obstructs the acceptance of the election. Circus just obstructing everything. And i'm sure that shirke didn't have much if anything to do with orbit forgetting the assistance. But he is a beneficiary of the financial and operational wellness of that company if his company is receiving pandemic related financial assistance while he's obstructing that for others. It's the hypocrisy that we're dealing with here in. The federal funds are good for me not for you as basic attitude. Apparently as long as gretchen whitmer is by way of getting what. I want some news from the swamp that is washington. Dc congressman tim. Walberg of michigan is openly threatening his corporate donors with official retaliation if they decided against giving him campaign money because of his role to overturn the results of the presidential election. And he's saying it out loud because of our votes there are corporations dow chemical blue cross blue shield horizon consumer energy is considering it right now and i represent consumers energy and by the way i sit on the most powerful committee in the in the us house the oldest standing committee and congress energy and commerce committee. I sit on the energy subsidy which has a lot to say about consumers energy and and i love them. I want them to succeed. I want them to do the right thing. But they are going to cancel me for many packs support because of my vote. Now i hope they change their mind but it's also also going over to other sectors Whether it's the detroit chamber of commerce that is considering canceling me. Now and jack bergman at least mclean or whether it's dow chemical. That's canceled me already from receiving any type of packed support. Even though and i sit on the probably most meaningful committee relative to them And look at Issues relative to energy commerce my french. But how fucking obvious can you get. That is outright extortion. Well he's in the minority now. He can threaten them all he wants. He'll probably be even less relevant when he's up for reelection again. But you don't hear him going on the radio and saying you know. I have constituents who are upset with my vote. And they're going to cancel me even though i represent all of my constituents. He's not concerned about that as concerned about his pack money. And if i was one of. The wound was withholding money from him because he contributed to this absurd narrative that our elections were rigged. Then i would definitely a big in on this. Because i'm not going to be threatened by anybody. Get my buddy irony is he. He could be cancelled by the new district. Maps as michigan loses one member of congress. He could be the person who gets. Who's the person out in this game of musical chairs were going from fourteen members to thirteen members. Talk more about redistricting in just a second though. There's another issue. I though dealing with washington that's actually something positive about one of our elected officials. Yes senator gary peters now. His first term was defined by working behind the scenes now as chair of the homeland. Security committee is leading an investigation. That has the potential to owners a major scandal. Where the of benedict arnold major general william j walker commanding. General of the dc. National guard said he was ready to go with troops to help on january six but the pentagon did not approve the deployment. There were communication and decision making breakdowns. That created a three hour and twenty minute delay to deployment. So why you and i and the rest of the world while watching the capitol building get it's ass kicked by these domestic terrorists the keystone cops over there were scratching their heads about what to do. Wasn't all on the national guard where the pentagon our breakdowns with the capitalist too but overall this was unnecessary and the hearings. They are looking into why this happened. What systems need to be fixed and is there anyone who has culpability here. And i think it's that last one that's really politically charged. You know the general made it very clear that the reason he didn't go in is because he was given a very unusual order that he couldn't do anything until he got sign off from both secretary of defense and the secretary of the army and he said that is very unusual circumstance like this. He didn't have that kind of restriction last summer when it was a a black lives matter demonstration in washington. Dc but he did this time and what changed at the pentagon was just before all of this happened in december. The white house wiped out the top civilian leadership of the pentagon and replaced them all with a bunch of magas people who weren't necessarily qualified for the jobs other than they were loyalists. Donald trump and to me the issue becomes did the trump administration beginning with the president specifically. Tell their people slow. Walk any help for this demonstration because we wanted to get out of hand and we want to send congress a message before we send in the cavalry to get order restored on the capital and the general made it very clear once. The troops went in from the national guard. They had things under control in a matter of minutes had gone earlier. A lot of destruction and a lot of the threat would have gone away but the president was watching the sun television. His secretary of defense. Who had to be watching it on television and the secretary of army who had to be watching it on television as well as one of the key deputies in the process was mike flynn's brother. Mike flynn the traitor. Who was pardoned by the president after being convicted of multiple counts of basically selling his country for cash. The whole thing to me really you know. You use the term benedict arnold in leading into this discussion. I think it's totally appropriate. And i don't even know exactly if there was a specific intention but we know we were watching it at the end of last year as these personnel at the pentagon the all these people were being swapped out for people who were really you know the most qualified. They didn't improve anything. They weren't making improvements in any way they rotated in and other people are being rotated out and we all saw. We knew they were loyalists and we were like was happening. Something big is going to happen. Why is this happening. And whether this was what was envisioned or something else. You don't know but Even even more than there were conversations about the optics of having the national guard Using these tactics or these other tactics or whatever and to a certain extent i understand. You don't want to have another situation where you have say. The helicopters helicopters were used for crowd control when the peaceful be emma. Riots were happening. And they had two military helicopters out there and they lower to a height that actually disperses the crowd. Because it's a you know you can't stand under these helicopters when they the washes killer. Yeah yeah that's that's it and so it you know i can understand saying we don't wanna have that kind of overreaction to peaceful protests but this is even messed up in the terms of what when they were when the national guard was deployed where they were deployed to what they were allowed to do. And then of course. Like i said the optics thing Kind of comes into play in terms of what they could carry in how they could respond. And i even think that you know you mentioned once the guard dot they're saying settled down well. It still took a couple of hours. And i don't think it would have taken that long. If they had been so restricted and had such a narrow scope given the joy that apparently donald trump head over the entire demonstration reports from the white house that he was really. He was rooting on the demonstration. I think it goes right to the top. But then again i've always been a little suspicious of the conman who was president for four years at the state level. Some news from our citizens independent redistricting commission a couple of things. First of all the panel is going to ask the state supreme court to basically let it deal with reality rather than what's in the constitution. The constitutional amendment requires that they have their maps submitted to the people for comment no later than the middle of september yet. The census data won't be available until the end of september thus. It is impossible for them to do that so they are going to petition the supreme to basically say hey. Nobody anticipated this. And we've got to deal with the reality of what it is. Give us a bit gives a delay. Give your stamp of approval on that if the supreme court does that i think it sets the stage for a federal lawsuit down the road against the maps. The other thing they have done is they picked a company. That's going to provide technical assistance in drawing the maps. And there's some controversy over that only eight of the thirteen commissioners voted in favor of the company. Which is headed by a guy who's been referred to as the picasso of gerrymandering. I personally think they did the right thing because the people that help them. Draw the maps. The technical experts no matter how bias they are if they come up with a map that has rigged for one party or the other the public hearing requirements and the openness of the process guarantees that the commission will be made aware of the fact that they have been had by their contractor and it puts pressure on the contractor to actually do a fair and honest job now. This contractor is gone out and hired three people to lead up the project. One independent one republican and one democrat. Which is the way it really needs to be done. And when you're hiring a technocrat basically you're paying them to provide you with expertise and you tell them the direction you want them to go. So i think that the the right decision even though it was very controversial most of the democrats i think it was a three of the four democrats on the commission opposed it. But i support the commission's decision to bring in this particular consultant. I hope it works out. Well it's like you said it's a work in progress when we wrote the constitutional amendment. We knew the first round of redistricting was going to be a really interesting process to see if what we wrote actually works and this is just another step in that process. And i i look at this. I i don't know one You know redistricting or electoral map drying company from another. But i look at all partisan their partisan you can't find the nonpartisan redistricting company. They don't exist well but i assume that there is some technical expertise that has to go into it and that expertise is not In a big and supply like it's i. I don't think that there are many companies. That do it if i'm wrong. Let's okay but it. It struck me as the old kobe. Tracing program awhile ago there has company in place that could do it. They picked it and then all of a sudden. Oh no they have ties democrats. We have to cancel it. So that's kind of how the struck me but here's a story that makes us feel good. Well a call for beefing up civics education in public schools and this is a project that actually started two years ago. it's a group of historians teachers and other leaders in education. Who are looking at how we can improve the teaching of social studies history and civics and get that kind of curriculum into the classroom over the next ten years. This is education for american democracy. That's the name of the group. The report that they released last week argues students. Do not need a laundry list of fats but a process that produces a better understanding of how the country's history shaped its presence. It reminds me of sitting around in college. Talk to my friends about you. Know different majors and what you actually get out of college. You learn to think he learn to process that kind of thing. I'm not saying kids are not learning to think in school. But i think it is true that history is more than just dates and chronological order of things. You have to understand it and parkland. The school is actually a really good example. Of what happens when you have an excellent civics program and debate program and so on when those kids were traumatized with that shooting. What did they do. They were able to come out and organize and speak for themselves but partially it's because it's a good school district. It's you know a little bit privileged in terms of you know the money around it but it's also because those kids were taught how to do that. I think it's really important. I've run for public office a couple of times. I lost both times but during the process of going door to door and talking with people. That i hoped would vote for me. I was absolutely appalled by the lack of understanding of how government works and what the responsibilities are government at different levels. Whether you know. It's the county commissioner of the state legislature or the federal government. People just kind of all blended together in their minds and not because they're stupid. It's because they haven't been provided the education on just how are very complex system of self government works and i think that allows people to be manipulated by witness the person who said in the oval office for four years. He lied and lied and lied and lied. And most people didn't have the background information of the knowledge to understand that he was lying and so they took him at face value in part because they wanted to believe what he was saying. But also because they just weren't capable of evaluating what is saying and to me that is the the ultimate downfall of our democracy. We need a better educated electorate. They need to know how the system works or to fall. Well and don't forget about the special interests that are out there providing quote unquote educational programs as like a tax free. Sing and i forget what law that allows that but now if you're hungry for more information about the government you can get a free class in the constitution it's non-partisan holding out my fingers for air quotes and what it is is. Put a screen river that on the website. That's like yet you know it's it's a or even Hosanna college dibs out. Free lessons in constitution and government. Don't want hillsdale college. The features people how government works because that is based on a conservative viewpoint of how government should work so anyway. Yeah we'll have some links in the shots and help out a picture of me Before we close this week a personal note michigan lost one of its giants on friday. Frank kelly who served thirty seven years as michigan's attorney general passed away at the age of ninety six. Mr kelly was appointed attorney. General in nineteen sixty. One governor john swenson and went on to serve side by side with four more michigan governors. George romney. bill. Milliken jim blanchard and john engler. He was both the youngest and oldest attorney. General in michigan history. He holds the national record for consecutive years. As a state attorney general he can read about his record of public service. There are many many stories everywhere. Many of them linked on our website. I wanna take a moment to talk about the personal side of frank kelly. He and i met way back in nineteen sixty eight. I was very young radio reporter and my first big name interview was with michigan's attorney general over the years are professional relationship. Grew into a strong friendship when i left journalism for a career as a consultant. He hired me to help with his file reelection campaign. He really didn't need my help. Any new business needed a client. Mr kelly was a great storyteller. Always coming up with a a new yarn regarding the many people he had known in his long political career ended his personal life. One of college roommates was legendary. Tv star steve allen the original host of. Nbc's tonight show. Kelly actually inspired allen to write a song or at least. That's the way frank told. One sunday morning. Kelly was headed out the door allan s and where he was. Kelly responded that he was going to church allen. A devout atheist descended to stay in their room. While kelly was gone allen wrote years later became a major hit recording ads. Son running own son. That song inspired by frank. Kelly became a chart. Hit for the duo of jimmy. Wake leeann margaret whiting hitting number thirteen on the pop charts and number two in the country charts in nineteen fifty. at least. That's the way frank. Kelly told the story. Mister kellyanne many showbiz friends over the years. None of them closer to him than legendary. Comedian jimmy durante. I had offices in detroit. Of course i'd have to go down there about once a week or once every ten days to say a couple of days and when i went to detroit always stayed at the book acre sharing alike hotel and i always ate at the table where the manager of the hotel aid well and he would say by the way. Frank sows in the house tonight. He always referred to the hotel as the house and when he comes down for breakfast or she'll introduce you well. Among the people came down for breakfast. Was jimmy durante. And he introduced of jimmy durante and the during ran asked me to sit with them and believe it or not celebrities. Many of them are fascinated by people who have a political titles. I don't know why you'd think that i'd wanna would be fascinated by the star. Quality of jimmy durante. Most of the time you meet these people and they wanna about politics you know. Did you know song so. Did you ever meet john kennedy at central cetera. And i talk. Politics showed him and I should say he talked politics. I talk show business with him. He came to detroit. The oh maybe twice a year to play at the elmwood. Every time he came he call my office and insisted that. I bring my family over to the show which i would do. And we became friends and One time i needed my call them in hollywood and he picked up his his troop in. Las vegas came to detroit to the old latin quarter on the boulevard order. Erase seventy five thousand dollars for me. In one night for a fundraiser s. a low of it was but he made his mark as attorney general where he basically wrote the rules for the job. That was the result of the change in governors year after he took office democrat john. Swenson was defeated by republican. George ronnie it was Quite tense for awhile. And because governor romney Came from business. He was president of american motors. He had the impression that an attorney general is just like corporate attorney he would push a button and i was close to come in his office and do his bidding while it didn't work out that way for years so when you came on the scene and sixty we didn't get along that well and took a while for us to realize what i respective duties were and Finally one day. After a long argument i came into his office and it was the day after the election which we both one big thick thinking state in the united states people going around in and they also have me for gentle so i wonder was off as a couple of days later and he was sitting and i said you know governor. The people evidently wanna serve together. Maybe we should try to get along a little better. They said frank. You're absolutely right. So i had My deputy attorney general leon cohen and he had as deputy And they negotiated a peace treaty in other words. What were the duties of The governor went where the duties of the attorney general. After a month's work on that i wanted to governor romney's office on. We signed the what was known as the the treaty of lansing and After that govern around me. I get along very well. I must say that All the governors i worked with were men of integrity. I didn't always agree with them politically but they all had the sense that what were they were doing. They were doing right. And every one of them was a was an honest person and had the best interest of the state at heart even though are solutions. Deploys agree of mine frank. Kelly was renowned for his loyalty to as many many many friends. He had the same personal assistant pat anderson for more than forty years of professional relationship and friendship that continued for the rest of his life literally dozens if not hundreds were also the recipients of that loyalty. I'm very thankful to have been one of them. Frank kelly was ninety six years old rusted in peace. My friend sure is but that's it for this week's podcast for more information on today's topics. Might i suggest our website michigan pollock s dot com. You'll find links tweets videos. Maybe some beams and this week will have our favorite past recipe as well as a little bit of the history of the past very interest. Oh i love it. I can't wait to see that as always we welcome your comments. You can emails at m. i. Paulie g dot com or comment via our facebook page or twitter. And make sure you check out the new podcast republic if you can keep it with longtime michigan political insiders. Jeff timor and mark brewer. You can find it on apple. Podcasts google podcasts tune in and iheart radio and you can find a link to it as well on our website. We'll be back in a week. Sia michigan podcast. With walt sore and christine. Barry is a production of michigan citizens. Ra- better tomorrow.

michigan gretchen whitmer johnson legislature texas senate detroit joe biden christine berry walt sorghum Christine berry sam england richelle wolinsky governor abbott Dr walinsky lonski
The Skeptics Guide #736 - Aug 17 2019

The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe

1:34:09 hr | 2 years ago

The Skeptics Guide #736 - Aug 17 2019

"<music> you're listening to the skeptics guide to the universe your escape to reality low hello and welcome to the skeptics guide to the universe. Today is wednesday august fourteenth twenty nineteen and this is your host steven novella joining me this week or bob novella everybody jane avella hey guys and evan bernstein good evening folks no care this week because she just moved into a new home and has no internet so i talked to carry today. She called me with a very funny story. She's a j. You got to hear this <hes>. She wants me to tell you guys tonight so she ends up calling the l. a. d. w. p. which is the department of water and power no way really so that wasn't it keep going in this guy elmore romero helping her on the phone. He's finally gets. She's creating the account. He finally gets to the point where he's like. So what's your name and he says she says cara santa. Maria and he's like what would well you know. Aren't you on that podcast like that's my favorite podcasts. The guy i was he listens to this show and he's been listening for ten years and carriages thought that was awesome. It was really adorable like hearing her. Tell me the story back because she just got off the phone with the guy yeah. The random encounters were always fun. Yeah totally out of context complete so so give you guys a quick follow up so i was away on a family vacation and i told you guys i was gonna go indoor skydiving. Do you remember this to remember that happen all allies outdoor outdoor skydiving. Apparently that was the the distraction so i was off the trail because it was it's my birthday. It was my birthday last week. It turns out that they took me to see all the i know because i was really looking forward to it but what we ended up doing was even better. They took me to go see billy joel in congo. I had so much fun. It was really awesome like he is seventy years old. This sky can still do it all all singing playing everything he was awesome. He's funny. He's really really charming and self deprecating sitting in a really familiar kind of northeastern kind of ways very very new york. You know what i mean. Oh yes sure us very quick before we go on to a new segment that bob is going to be trying this week before go onto that <hes> last week we were talking about food origins and i jokingly said that pizza was invented into the new haven and a couple of about that obviously it wasn't serious but it did end up inspiring me to investigate what the actual history of pizza pizza was. It went down to pizza whole it went down the pizza rabbit hole so it just very quickly on pizzas of very important food. I mean let's come on and let's space it so i always find this interesting that like there's no clean answer because there is no clear definition of where are you draw the line as to what count is pizza right drew so if you include any flat bread with stuff on top then who knows that's right that it may be it was greece. It was probably multiple places there. Was you know that's that's the cut the kind of thing that's hard to track down but if you say all right what about 'bout flat bread with cheese and sauce that probably was invented in naples and in that's called a the pizza napolitano right pizza neapolitan pizza that was so that was brought to the united states by italian americans. The new haven pizza was opened in nineteen twenty five by pep pay right pepsi's pizza and he was from naples <hes> but he innovated did new haven style pizza napolitano right so it's the neapolitan pizza sauce and cheese but with very crunchy thin crust so that lots of gluten so if you if you say that that's real pizza then yes was of course new york thinks that they invented the thin in style pizza crust pizza and they did because they predated that like nine hundred ninety nine or something so the new york style in new haven style pizza are very similar. I actually have to say. I prefer new york style pizza but you guys you ever saw rate. It's fantastic but new york is a little bit better. What's the subtle difference between the two. It's the new york is less crunchy. Crust is if you go if you go to pepys pizza still open. I've been there you go to pet today. It's a great pizza but the crushes really crunchy pepsi's it is amazing. I mean you know steve when you get into that league. It's like you know they're both so awesome. I've had tons and tons of amazing pizza in lots of different places in in new england but pep as we go every month you know pet is just ridiculously good but you like you like it to be a little bit more bready. Yeah i read ready. I like it but i do but not deep dish. I'm not crazy about deep dish chicago style pizza but i have to say we were nexus a couple years ago and and it was late at night. We were looking for something to eat. You walked into some random pizza place and i had the best free concise at mile life. You're random new york. Pichon man pizza was fantastic. I know it was just so it was it was epic. It was absolutely the joke is and it's probably true like if you're in new york city and you're selling frigging pizza like it's gotta be like think about how many joints there are new york like if you're going to be anywhere that people we're going to for traffic. You have to be serving good pizza. Yes you can't serve crappy pizza and survive in montana yeah. I've had some amazing pizza in brooklyn as well. Oh my god awed almost life changing so i have. I have a an interesting thing that i go to colorado. We know maybe once a year twice a a year to go see my sister and brother-in-law peace out there well. It's not good and everybody knows it. In a in a big part of it is last year as an example. I made homemade pasta and meatballs right. <hes> and i make homemade sauce. It took me over a day to cook the sauce because of what the air pressure the air pressure aw yeah cooking temperatures are different yet at the also i me and my brother-in-law scott both have the same <hes> tea kettle that we use to make poor over coffee. I can get mine easily up to two hundred and twelve degrees. His doesn't go above two oh four yeah because of the air pressure. That's funny so the air pressure so you can't get food as hot that is definitely a factor in all sorts of cooking pressure cookers baby interesting i think i just think there's differences that changed the chemistry. You know when you're cooking. You're just you're when you're you're. You're essentially just changing the chemistry of the food. The other thing is the water the w- the minerals and whatever you would find in the water that changes the properties of the water. I think it has a big effect as well. You're like new york bagels probably something to do with the water yet abc rate every now and then you find somebody who learned how to make some like quintessential dish from their region in ghost they move somewhere else <unk> export like we found a place once remember this guys that could make new york bagels in florida and the new york bagels i've had i've had some new york cuisine in las vegas which has been excellent yeah but it's still not as good as new york though for whatever reason i still is good. It's worth a trip to have you ever been to the big. The big apple and you had to go there go. They're just eat the bagels and the pizza go to arthur avenue. Go to arthur avenue. Yeah pants j. that extra insurance go in knowing that you're just going to be blowing yourself out all right. Let's go on so bob. Yeah numbers up kid. What is the name of bob yes. I bought this new segment. Is your number's up your number's up okay. What is this. Is this about so i'll tell you jay. New segment is about numbers. I love numbers one one specific one specific number for each time i do so these numbers will usually be historically iconic immensely useful and important to mathematics physics chemistry. Perhaps meaningful only to me. <music> hopefully hopefully they'll all be fascinating and informative or at least entertaining so for my premiere episode i will say so. What's your favorite number guys. What's your favorite number and be quick about it twelve thirteen five okay so you see most. Everyone has one right. They didn't really even have to <hes>. There's usually some personal reason why it resonates with you. Now i love the macabre and i'm also amused frustrated with silly fears that people have about some numbers so therefore i love the numbers thirteen and six six six. They are my go-to top five favorite numbers of all time i also love the number sixteen billion because because and i also love i also love things at the extremes of sizes so i am. I invariably also include in my favorite numberless. One of the largest are just numbers. I've ever heard about this number. I it's it's a number. It's very specific. It has a name and it was actually used seriously in a mathematical proof so that would distinguish it from a lot of other numbers that you could throw out. I think you know it's kind of an important distinction <hes> for for a number. That's on your favorites list. This is called graham's number. <hes> it's so big and fascinating. I think it will actually surprise you. In a lot of ways. A grams numbers named after mathematician ronald graham <hes> he is the chief scientist at the california institute for telecommunications and information technology. A grants number itself was calculated by gram as the upper bound answer related to a problem in a branch of mathematics called ramsey's ramsey theory now ramsey theory is a branch of mathematics concerning the conditions when order has to appear in assistant system so for example problems in ramsey's theory often. Ask questions like how many elements have some structure must be there to be guaranteed at a particular property. <hes> pity will hold so for example show that any party with at least six people will contain a group of three mutual friends or a group of three mutual non friends. That's it's kind of like what you would encounter industry. A gram wasn't concerned with this party problem. Necessarily he was concerned with <hes> by chromatic hyper cubes a higher are you dimensional cubes that are colored different colors and and the order that that's related to that so i won't go into details about that as pretty heady stuff but doc but at the time of its introduction by famous mathematician martin gardner it was the largest specific positive integer ever used in published mathematical proof. This number was also published published in one thousand nine hundred eighty version of the guinness book of world records which brought it to a lot of people's attention so trying to think of ways you know how. How do you even imagine this number. It's so beyond gargantuan that really you can never be fully appreciated and you can't even you can't even write this number down. It's so big they they the have to use a specific symbol a specific notation to even write it. You just can't like throw in exponents or anything like that to try to represent represent this out to its final digit or whatever can't so they don't symbol for it right but you know but this is different you need to you need way to kind of a kind of derive or an expression that equals this number. They know what this number is. They they know you. They know things like <hes> they could calculate. It's like it's last digit is seven. They know that they know that but the number itself was so gargantuan that you you need a special. You need a way to communicate it <music> a concise way so they have a scientist named knuth came up with an arrow called. It's aero up. Notation is just an arrow pointing up that that's pretty much it right there so this is this is how it works. It's kind of like us exponents but on mega steroids beyond all imagination so you got the air so for example three up arrow three that equals three to the third power very simple right three times three times three twenty seven so now let's throw in another barrow so three up arrow up aero three so we got to eros in the middle that's three to the third power to the third power so three to the third is twenty seven and three he to the twenty seventh power is seven point six trillion a little bit more than seven point six trillion so we've gone up. We've added one ero and we've gone from twenty seven to seven point six trillion so that's kind of the progression that you need to kind of embrace when you're adding aero's to this to this notation tation okay so to about three aero aero aero three you get that little e error in your calculator into that one in absolutely the error this maybe a capital e because this that would be so far beyond so imagine this to put that number into into perspective here three aero aero three equals three to the power three to the power of three to the power three and i keep saying that seven point six trillion sometimes well okay. That's a long podcast but okay so we know now how big of a leap just by adding one up era. We know the leaves. We're talking talk. Now we go to three with four barrows three okay. You got to threes and inbetween them. You've got four arrows. That number is the first step up that you need to have when calculating grams number that's called g one for i guess grams number one. That's the first step so now for one so so three four four up hours three. We know that's a number. That's beyond comprehension already. That's g one but then when you go to the next step what you have is three and then a jeff one number of arrows three so do you follow that one yes sure so the number of arrows is so big that it's the g. one number of arrows number that we still we probably can't really express are the very well at all anyway and then so you keep going up then you take the next level. Will you take three g to number of arrows three and then you keep going that way until it's g. Three g. four finally when you get to g sixty four four that's grams number right there that is so so beyond immense that it's our let me see if i can explain it this way. How big exactly you couldn't fit it into the universe so i heard one mathematician describe it this way. I liked this description. If you wrote that number down on a piece of paper you would literally fill fill the observable universe with paper and you still wouldn't even be close it. What about recycling a huge recycling might need to use other are multi versus all right. Here's one more this one. I love this one. I love because there's an there's a maximum amount of entropy that can be stored in your head. If you pictured ensured grams number in your head it would collapse into a black hole way bob mcleod into your head class because there's so much information there that your ahead collapse into a black hole literally literally so literally and it'll blow your mind just beyond the black hole of your mind undiminished evan. Bob graham's number yeah ready grams number times too. I could beat that because i know i know we were gonna get emails like oh yeah grams numbers nothing. I know what number is bigger. There's not many numbers that are that are bigger but there is one. There's a couple that well actually there's infinitely bigger now. But of course there are of course who are doce. If you remember early in my talk it's these numbers are specific and they have a name and they've been they've been using it in a proof so so infinity plus three is not in anybody's proof so so that's that's why those numbers are just are boring. They're just they're just boring. Okay so here's another one that i'm just gonna throw out and quickly describe. This is called tree three. Look it up fastening. It's tree and then three in parentheses so this is so big that graham's number is essentially zero next to it and this is also producing them in a mathematical proof one. I'll give one description of it. It's so big compared to graham's number. That big is it. How big is it that if you had a grams number number of people and all of them had a piece of tree three in their heads all all of their heads would collapse to a black hole. That's how big that's how big that number and how numbers collapse into a black hole. If if your brain were big enough that it had enough processing power to hold that number in the head it would be so big it would collapse into a back that that i get and that's that's what i said and that's what i basically said evan so this number and check this number out seahorse seven about that roof to king's bishop three three exactly you know square root of negative one bob. I have one question yeah j. Why do we need numbers. That are so big that we can't even think about them. Well i mean we don't jay this is like i said. This isn't a random arbitrary number. This is a number that was used in the proof to to give the upper bound now that this problem album in ramsey's theory that they're trying to have the solution to the number. Is this the number the answer. They know what the answer is. That answer is between eleven and graham's number number so that's why graham came up with this number because he gave he determined he calculated in a very elegant way that the solution to this hard problem problem is got to be between eleven and graham's number and he's got a really narrow down the they've eliminated one through ten. Yes it's a huge range. It's probably beyond huge but the interesting thing is that he knows he showed in a proof that it could not be one one digit greater than graham's number and that's and that's an accomplishment and it just a fascinating thing that he came up with when one of the biggest numbers and it was the biggest number ever using the proof the like that until tree three came around and took took the prize bob seahorse seven-man seahorse savon number is so yeah. It's crazy yeah you have after you must describe how that nomenclature works jay because i'm skeptical that it's big. Here's how it works. You take a word and you throw a number back. Come up with a new all right. I must stop these inane comments with my clothes with my closer this this was bob your number's up. I hope you enjoy. I hope you enjoy it more than when your number's up that closer might change. It's a work in progress but now i can see why you're no longer doing quickey with bob's because you're you've lost your cool factor and you're you're just not having sex anymore. It's quickies with bob bob. It's good point stephen jay jay say that again but say it in a funny way in a funny way portal. I i love that voice. I liked graham's number or jay. How much longer am i going to be able to enjoy my bananas only for seahorse. You're seven depressing. I clearly remember steve predicting that the cavendish banana has a questionable future and this is due to a fungus and i didn't believe him. I didn't believe it meaning like that will never happen or that's like one hundred years away. Nope this is called panama disease tropical race ace four or t r four for short fun j. What is what is the cabinets banana. The cavendish banana was this couple bobby. You know i can't answer that. Question is is complicated. We've talked about this. Well kevin dishes a specific variety of banana that <hes> we currently the vast majority of people on the earth or eating the cavendish banana because of a lot of properties at it has but let me get into it because i have to unravel this a little bit. I know a lot of a lot of listeners know all about our banana talk and steve trying to you and ethically failing at growing bananas new england but let me unravel this a little bit that we can get into that so the fungus has been hitting plantations in the eastern hemisphere and and even though banana growers have been doing everything they can to prevent the spread the fungus is finally found its way to the americas and this is really dad bad news so the fungus was identified in the early nineteen nineties and taiwan and they were able to confine it to southeast asia and australia and to to until two thousand thirteen where it was found in both the middle east and africa which you know like you think about like they're trying to contain a fungus. This is complicated. They don't wanna ship a banana that has fungus spores on it right. They don't want to have that the plant infest the rest of the planet but you know we have a problem with this type of thing with lots of different and products not just bananas but let me continue so as as of this summer the colombian agriculture and livestock authority have confirmed through laboratory testing that they have positively identified t._r. Four banana farms in the caribbean coastal region. They even declared a national state of emergency because of how serious serious this could be for their economy and i did not know this. I didn't know that is there an antifungal that they have to know. Here are now listen to this guys. I didn't know this next thing. This is important. The the real problem that we're seeing here is that bananas are not just an export commodity but that you know that employees he's a ton of people staple millions of people. It is a primary source of nutrition for a vast amount of people around the world and you know once. They've spotted this this fungus auto plant. It's already too late once once the once the farmers go up. There's the fungus it's too late. It's got the tree has got it and get rid of it. In in this circumstance the fruits are still edible all the way up until the plant just stops producing fruit and that's what happens the plants stop producing fruit and that's the problem here so scientists. I systems that what happened is that what happened to all your banana plants so this year no cats on a hell of a lot more than steph's frigate banana pathway. They have to get into that. That's bad so scientists have been working on a fund aside. Would you say fungal side fungicides side underside so so they've been working on it for a long time and they haven't found anything that's effective and the only thing that's helped was containing the fungus but they don't think they're ever going to be able to eradicated needed which is really sad now. I know that steve knows the answer to this next question. But why do you guys think one fungus is so damn effective at destroying the cabinet the cabinet monoculture right exactly back right on the nose evan. I'm disappointed totally disappointed the michelle. What about the girl machel. That's let me get to that saw uh-huh yeah just kidding answer simple though the cabinet banana is exclusively from one clone variety then this means every banana that you eat every cavendish banana that you've ever for eight in your entire life is a clone of every single other one that you've ever eaten in your entire life so their genetics are identical which means that there are also susceptible to the same freaking freaking diseases and this is the problem and as bob said this is called a monoculture so why did big banana agriculture is a big banana steve yeah sure and why did they decide to do this well. This is a fun and interesting reason behind this. The cavendish was a fantastic replacement for the banana that came before it. Which is the the grow michelle right so this same thing happened to that banana that banana died of something called race one fungus and there were like what are we going to do and they're like well. We have the cabin dish. It's not as delicious and it's not as good but the cavendish will actually meet. All of our requirements and those requirements are pretty hefty like that. The banana has is to be able to be mass grown. It has to be able to be transported without spoiling. It has to ripen when it gets to market. It has to be hardy enough to due to withstand different places like different regional places for it to grow. There's lots of reasons when they pick a fruit to to do a specific thing or maybe even selectively breed of fruit to have certain properties but the kevin dish was able to replace the grow michelle but now since the t._r. Four has taken root this new fungus. It's starting to wipe wipe out the cabin dish and there's there are thousands of varieties of bananas out there but none of them. Maybe a handful have a lot of good properties that would be able to <hes> meet some of the requirements that we need but there isn't a simple one the pop over to now. That's gonna satisfy. All the things and one of the things of course is the palette of the people who eat it. We've been eating cabinets bananas for so long some of us. Maybe that's the only banana they've ever had there. That is banana. That's banana. It's like you can't can't you can't change that and i'll tell you what the other thing is. It's not like when you eat an apple. There's there's so many varieties of apples and you can get your hands on a lot of variety of apples. I like i do too two and new england. You can get lots of different apples. They can go to local farms and you can get your hands on apple's that you can't even get in the supermarket. We're going going this saturday by the way guys. I'll go already steve yeah the they ended their beacon. Pick the the golden crisp amazing. Is that the same crisper different than in crisp type two golden crispy golden yellow apple all those yellow ones there. I think the most amazing apple's i've ever eaten they explode in your mouth. I mean they're just super crunchy so the thing is this every banana you've had taste just like every other banana like there is no the variability in the flavor is if they're cabinet you you say banana you mean cavendish clear. There's there's plenty of this month. Many many different cultivars have been in around the world and most of the staple bananas that people reading are are not <unk> not even dessert bananas there. There's more starchy <hes> plantation type in anna's yeah so but but the kevin kevin dish banana is super consistent in its flavor and texture and everything you could just go through you can go to a banana in any place just because i live in the united states. I'm familiar with the united the states of course so you could buy a banana in new york. You could buy banana in l._a. Or somewhere in the mid west and hair gonna taste the same unlike pizza yeah right that's right. What's sad is is that this is. We're not going to be able to get a <hes> an easy replacement for this. They're saying that this this the it's a blight in it's really hitting bananas that is hard and what the first thing we're going to see is that prices are going to start to go up and men bananas are super cheap have you do you realize how cheap bananas are for how far they have to ship these things and the work that it takes cakes yeah. This is something that has to be sold in in a massive amount in order for it to be a worthy. A worthy crop of bananas went up to be like two bucks a pop forget about it. You know like you're just not gonna use net and i'm not going to spend twenty dollars on bananas when i go to the store so <hes> and then there is an obvious question question here what about genetically modifying them you know and they the from what i'm reading here the they're not doing it because they are assuming that the global population asian is not gonna wanna eat a g._m. Owed banana hold on. They've already done ajay researchers in australia who have already made a g._m._o. Cavendish having dish banana that looks to be pretty much one hundred percent resistant to the fusarium fungus which is the one that's causing the panama disease so now it's just a matter of approving it and marketing it. They tweet that banana to be resistant to the fungus and that's yeah they don't they will. There's two different kinds. There's is one day borrowed genes from other banana varieties that are resistant to the fungus and then in the other one. They took genes from a nematode and sat. It's a nematode parasite. Oh great steve so he's been an sucking. The brains chain with jiggling brains jay all right. That's great. I'm glad that you see of course steve knows more about this i didn't i didn't find anything about that but he subscribes to banana weekly jay. We've talked about that. Why don't they gently engineer grow michelle yeah. That's my question yeah. That's exactly right they should. I mean partly i think because the industry now is geared geared around the cabinet but you're right bob. Why the hell you could make a g._m._o. Cavendish that's resistant to the panama disease make frequent g._m._o. Grow michelle thank you if city city of heroes can come back and grow michelle and that's it. I'm done talking about this so look guys. Please go to the supermarket by some bananas and enjoy enjoy them because you know legit. We have a problem with bananas. Yeah you gotta leave. You guys watching that show on h._b._o. Years and years now no it's interesting yeah. They'd it goes through the next ten years. They get ends around twenty thirty and it's a pretty dark look at our near future right but not much of extrapolate just extrapolating from what's going on now but not in a good way but as an off hand comment. Somebody made like twenty twenty eight and somebody's mentioned that yeah what we you don't have bananas anymore so yeah. It's probably reasonable timeline. You know what this keeps going the way it is my now that it's in south america. That's it. We're screwed. That's role of our bananas. Come from guys. I know it's really weird you know. We just take so much for granted like i. I don't want my kids to not enjoy bananas. You l. like bananas like this could happen to any crop. Steve get to work on your new england variety any monoculture crop for sure well. That's the other thing is that we shouldn't just replace the cavin dish with another monoculture because that's that's not sustainable. They really need to diversify the dessert banana for export. You know infrastructure so we have grown michelle and cavendish and let's make another dozen varieties that are i don't care red ones little ones. The apple bananas like like all kinds of things. I make them so that they're good for transport but there's a lot of variety. We can't have this monoculture. It's not sustainable well. Everyone's gonna take a quick break from our show to talk about one of our sponsors this week bumba socks you know we've been talking about bomba socks for quite a while now but the one thing we haven't said as they have kids socks to we all know we've said it many many times how amazingly comfortable bomba socks are but the kids are incredibly cold for and they even have kobi's on them great bob when you say bs you mean like like honeybees yeah that's right but they still have all of the comfort innovations that you've grown used to in the adult socks including the reinforced toes and heels and extra extra padding and stay up technology and since bombers donates a pair of socks for every pair purchased. You should get some for yourself too so send your kids back to school with baba's the socks that that will keep them comfy colorful ready to take on the school year visit bomba's dot com slash skeptics and get twenty percents off your first purchase that let's be o. M. b. s. dot com slash skeptics for twenty percent off your first purchase all right guys. Let's get back to the show all right evan yeah mandy epstein conspiracies or flying what's going on here. They're flying all right yeah. It's the person i've been aware of for a very long time ten years more. I've kind of been following the story of him. Although ironically you know if you ask people people most people a couple of months ago. I'm not sure that many of them even knew who he was but once you get arrested by federal agents for sex sex trafficking charges in two states that will make people pay attention and that is exactly certainly what happened the problem with the jeffrey epstein saga is it is a saga and it has origins that go back to the nineteen nineties for those of you know jeffrey epstein was a wealthy american businessmen began in his career in finance he was with the investment bank bear stearns and then he formed his own company off off of that details of how he amassed his his fortune are sketchy. It's being investigated but he was worth hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars or at least billions of dollars at one point he was not only rich. Here's he's what you could. I think generously call person who had passions for very specific. Things and science was one of them before he got into the world of finance he was a teacher in the mid nineteen seventy s he taught physics and mathematics now his eventual rise in wealth which came along with the social status that came along with it because he was not not born into wealth. He became wealthy on his own. He worked his way into circles with some of the top names in science popularization and the and the science community eighty some big names lot of them. We've spoken about before on the show and you can read about them and how that all relates. He was a very generous philanthropist purpose to scientific institutions to the tune of tens of millions of dollars over the past two decades his jeffrey epstein virgin islands foundation was the vehicle he established established to help fund scientists their research and their institutions now he also had a passion for politics as well he hosted parties fundraisers donate to politicians titians political figures across party lines in the united states that means both democrats and republicans and iran in the circle of friends and what could be considered the cultural elite movie stars major musical artists royal family members among others but his most infamous and certainly lurid in criminal passionless his affection and lust for girls teenage girls and that's why in april two thousand five was when the investigations began into him apparent complained that he molested their fourteen year old daughter long lengthy investigation it led to his eventual pleading guilty to a charge of <hes> of procuring an underage girl for prostitution and that came down in two thousand eight and he served thirteen months in custody with work release as part of a plea deal. We've heard some stories about that as well. It was kind of a sweet plum deal. He got unbelievable. I mean should not have happened it. Just sweet media unprecedented suspiciously sweet suspiciously sweet. It's part of the long story and even though at the time federal officials had identified thirty six girls fourteen years old or underage fourteen to eight to seventeen years old and they claim that they were molested but that's what happened. That's how that's how it went down now. In the years leading up to his conviction and several more times after his guilty plea he's been the subject of accusations of having a child sex ring that actually cater it to some of the world's richest and the most famous men with which epstein shared substantial amounts of his time and within these allegations lie the seeds of the conspiracy spiracy there you have the background. There's a lot more but that's just the very broad broad strokes so you kind of know where we are now. Come to current times july six two thousand nineteen. Lena epstein gets arrested on the federal charges for sex trafficking of minors in florida and new york's. This is a federal case. He's being held without bail in manhattan correctional center or the m._c._c. see and it was suspected that he tried to kill himself in there on july twenty third. He was found semi-conscious with injuries to his neck. There are unsubstantiated reports. That epstein claims he was attacked by another inmate but that's in direct conflict to other reports that he tried to take his own life. There's been no official determination and what happened on july twenty third but he was treated for his injuries and placed for six days on suicide watch. He was taken off of suicide. Watch on july twenty ninth life and then moved to a wing within the m._c._c. a housing unit and he was put in there with another inmate on august ninth the day before his death breath. The other inmate was removed so epstein was alone in his cell overnight from august nine to the morning of august ten and the people at the m._c._c. facility were assigned to monitor the the units prisoners epstein among them the the facility people the guards or whomever was in charge of watching him supposedly fell asleep huge coach huge huge mistake. They're supposed to be checking on epstein every thirty minutes but it's now come out that they were asleep and for several <unk> hours unmonitored that's when they found them just after six in the morning august tenth. He was a conscious in his cell. They attempted to revive them in the cell. It was unsuccessful. They brought to the hospital. They couldn't revive him there. He was pronounced dead by apparent suicide. There it is the news breaks and then i i learned about it. Sort lord of the news broke. I got a a little blurb on the came up and alert so i went right to my computer and i started looking around and i would say within an hour or two not even less than one hour outcome the conspiracy theories they were. They were ready to go with this. One is almost in a way that they were just waiting for the moment to happen so so that they can let these things fly so of course the one i saw i. The clintons got him right for those of us unfamiliar with with it. There's a set of political conspiracies all revolving around the clintons called so-called so-called the clinton body count which is a running list associates of bill and hillary clinton who has supposedly died under mysterious circumstances over the past couple of decades with disturbing political each of them taking disturbing political secrets and knowledge of crimes to their graves so of course because of epstein's prior dealings or associations with with bill clinton. He automatically becomes part of that list and that is a <hes> continues. The clinton body counts not going to end with jeffrey epstein so this just adds fuel to that fire but right on the heels of that one. No clinton didn't get 'em trump got him. The most powerful man in the world his attorney general's office was the one one who okayed epstein's removal from the suicide watch and so basically set him up so that he could either take his life or his life could be taken but somehow trump trump was the one who orchestrated this so that's another conspiracy. That's out there. Oh here's another one epstein was an f._b._i. Informant or asset may be both both perhaps it was the reason why he back in two thousand eight got such a sweet deal because of cooperation in some capacity and if anyone has the means to see someone dead. Wouldn't it be the f._b._i. Or c._i._a. So that one's out there. Oh here's another one guy's massad. That's the israeli rayleigh version israel's equivalent of the cia epsteins accused of being massad asset a jewish man former ties to the israeli political class class and the israeli scientific community you know there's pictures of him with politicians from israel and he's given money to scientists and scientific organizations in israel israel and if you doing covert work he must have been working from assad so they must've got him oh but it gets even in that house this one. This is the best. I think the best s. one. He's not really dead <hes>. If you go to four chan we know about four chan right conspiracy laden message board where people express fantasies with abandoned the word of epstein's death made it to the message board thirty to forty minutes before an official announcement was made and that is being investigated see if a first responder may have leaked some information and ahead of time or someone from the m._c._c. but it's more than that because they're suggesting that someone witnessed that someone in military uniforms came in at four in the morning wheeled him out of there in chains on a gurney and replaced him with a lookalike cadaver. Yeah that's ridiculous the stranger things but steve it's unfortunate how season one big strategic things yeah bob exactly yeah so me. There's actually an interesting shing discussion because i did write about this as well and in the comments with a lot of people asking so how crazy is it to speculate that there may be the l. a. hidden story going on here to like not believe the official version <hes> what we're being told because you know no. It's not a grand conspiracy. It's literally you know. A few people would have had to have been involved <hes> stumbled. I paid one of the guards to look the other way you know or whatever so it's not inherently implausible that something untoward could have happened <hes> but at the same time there's absolutely no reason to think that there was any conspiracy or anything going on so you know the story that we're being told is the the simplest explanation of the facts that we do have. He was found hanged. Apparently autopsy said he died of of hanging there was no evidence of foul play on the top of the official version is pending interviewing the guards and stuff like that which is standard procedure. The guards were overworked. They were <hes> the one of the guards was on his fifth straight night of overtime. The another guard was a substitute <unk>. There's a question about whether they were properly trained to basically just fell asleep on the job yeah because they were overworked. Ed they're big. The jails understaffed for various reasons and so this is what happens. It's a series series of unfortunate events require an extraordinary explanation joe it really doesn't there's certainly no evidence for any of these specific conspiracies and i do think it's it is absurd to think that like you know the president or the clintons were involved in the national silly so until anyone can produce produce anything specific you know the fact that this guy had every reason to commit suicide in when people are waiting to be arraigned is statistically statistically as when they're at the highest risk for suicide having acclimated to the idea that they're gonna be in prison. This guy could certainly be thinking that the lifestyle to which he had grown accustomed with certainly never going to be his again and this seemed to be the quick way out so i i think at this point in time there is no need for a conspiracy theory. The explanation makes perfect sense but it wouldn't be impossible if there was. There's more to this story in that. There was something you know. It is possible that epstein had dirt on people that he preferred to take to the grave or if somebody wanted him to take to the grave. It's not in and of itself crazy. We have no reason to think of right but actually what happened but if we focus on the death it doesn't require anything no crazy to to to speculate on the look whenever you can attribute human error or in this case maybe operator to a problem. I think you'll find that is the case. Almost most of the time becomes the most common causes kind of where you really have to start malice when simple incompetence will do right is a good rule of thumb yup. I agree so have you guys ever heard of weber's law. Man tat is avocado groves number weber's loss. I had not heard of it until recently. It's actually pronounced vaber so i'll pronounce it correctly from this point of age w. e. b. e. r. but it's pronounced vapor neighbor. The jury i read your blog steve yeah yeah prior to reading my blog. You probably hadn't heard of vapors lava so this is the law of just noticeable. We'll differences so let's say for example. I put a weight in your left hand and a very similar weight in your right hand and your task is to. I decide which one is heavier. How much heavier would one of those weights need to be before you would be able to notice the difference got a lot of factors that go into that depends on the weight plus. Your arms aren't the same sort of strength and have the same exact so but here's the law favors law. Is that it none of that matter austin none of that matters and specifically what does doesn't matter is the absolute value of the weight. It's all about the ratio so if for any task. Let's say that you establish that you you can tell the difference between a one pound weight and a one point one pound weight to a ten percent difference. I don't think that that ten percent difference would <music> hold out through linearly few out any way one hundred pounds and one hundred ten pounds or twenty pounds three ten percent. Is that the number. Is you telling us no. I'm making that up ratios different for each task but like four that task once you establish <unk> the ratio than that ratio holds regardless of intensity. That's vapors law that makes sense so it could be how bright is which light is brighter than the other light you know or it could be which line is long. More lights is longer than the other lines for lines or which sounds is louder or which pitches higher or which snagged stronger or whatever it doesn't matter. It's any sensory intensity. We'll <hes> that your ability to perceive the just noticeable difference will be the ratio will be consistent regardless of the absolute intensity. That's let's grab abors law call so it's an interesting observation <hes> it suggests it's so consider there's other things it's massively consistent. It's one of the most replicated and universal laws in neuro science. It holds for pretty much any sensory terminology and pretty much any animal species including invertebrates like bees holds through ear almost any experimental paradigm. I was able to find only one paper that had a test where a population of subjects for whom vapors law did not on hold and if you read my blog was people with autism and they famously process sensory information differently and interestingly maybe vapors brazil does not hold for them but that's an aside other than that's pretty much any species any central bayer's law halt so that doesn't it doesn't apply suggests that it's not just this interesting quirky observation. It's telling us something fundamental about how brains process information formation of course neuroscientist would love to reverse engineer what that lesson is. What is it telling us. It's a it's a puzzle apiece. It's a puzzle piece that we're holding. It's a clue yeah so there have been multiple multiple hypotheses to explain vapors law. The problem is that they're all consistent with the evidence. There's there's no way to distinguish distinguish among all the different hypotheses or so in order to these hypotheses are basically models right you cope with a model of how sensory sensory information is processed and you see if that model is consistent with vapors life it predicts vaporous law and many different ones that all are consistent with papers law the models produce outcomes which are in line with papers law so but there's no way to tell the difference among them so we've been stuck in this vis position for a couple of hundred years which is how old <unk> so this is now. We're getting to the new bit right the science news item here you're in that there was recently a study in which scientists for the first time discovered a new aspect to abors law that gives us a second puzzle apiece <hes> and what they looked at which was very very good thing to do they looked at how long did it take the subjects to decide decide which <hes> whatever which stimulus was more intense the time factor so they i did did rats rats like humans will orient their head automatically to a sound so if you give a rat an audio stimulus in both ears they oreo mint to the louder of to sounds right. It will turn their head to the right. If the right ears getting louder sound they'll turn to the left the left in the ladder sound so you could use that to test vabres law. You give them like little headphones <unk>. Give them different audio intensity when they get when they turn their head. That's when they're they're able to notice the difference. They must be the cutest headphones ever. Dr dre beats up so oh i they replicated vapors law it holds up in this paradigm works and then. They said they calculated. How long did it take before the rats. Listening to the two sides were able to turn their head to notice which one was ladder and they found that there was a linear relationship again they found there was a very specific relationship which they said was the time intensity equivalents in discrimination or tied rule t._e._d. So that's now a second puzzle with this enables us to do is go back to all of those models that predict vapors law and say do they also predict this time intensity equivalents law right so it's like triangulation triangulate. If you have one line line through what you're what you're detecting could be anywhere along the line you have a second line and suddenly you have it narrowed down to one point so even though you're just adding a the second piece of information when you're trying to just an analogy right when you're triangulating could narrow many many many possibilities down to two very few and maybe maybe even one and that's what happened here when they plugged in tied this new observation into the previous models only very very few of them were consistent with both vapors law and to the time intensity equivalent <hes> and so that could there for the he an experimental way to distinguish among the many models. It doesn't get us there yet. So <hes> first of all they replicated the study in humans and it held out to now it's true for rats and humans and then they went back and looked at data from other that other people had collected but they looked at olfactory theory stimulation in rats and found that the same time intensity rule applied there as well so that's two sentimentalities two species so that suggests that maybe it is a universal law so obviously lots of replication has to happen here. You have to be tested in lots of different species lots of different central to see if it's a general rule like vapors law is a general rule <hes> and then if it is that we have to have your neuroscience neuroscientists. Take a crack at it to see all right. Does this get us to a much shorter list of possible. Models and these models are basically mathematical mathematical models about information processing. You know which are way over my head. I can't get into the details like what those models would be mathematical. It's kinda analyzed grams number right bob. Could you know that mathematicians can understand it but in any case we'll say this. Could this could be a very a very useful step forward and obviously being able to reverse engineer exactly how neurons process sensory information or other kinds of information in is critical to understanding consciousness and will be critical to our attempts at replicating consciousness in and silicon right in in computers. I suspect at some point these models will become actual simulations with neural networks right. You've you've designed neural network. One way is favors log on to apply to neural networks computer simulations and if so than in any other aspect of vapors law that researchers discover you will it predict them as well and that will give us the ability to triangulate to how our brains <unk> actually function so it's pretty cool. I like the fact that they were thinking outside the box and this leads it. Just hopefully it will it. It will spur other researchers to also think outside the box in other ways okay well. If there's this time factor with vapors law what else what other questions could be asked about it in other pramod irs would other dimensions might there be to this phenomenon that will help us triangulate even further other. That's where that's where the brilliance of scientists and being able to think about how to test something. Obviously people be able to cope with all kinds of hypotheses. That's actually the hardest thing to do. In science what is hard is coming up with a testable hypothesis awaited tested and that's what these researchers debt so. That's really interesting. Okay vabres law. Add that tier vaber vatanen cooper's law got. It got it steve. It's a law aw well everyone for one of our sponsors this week. We have a public service announcement from the national highway traffic safety administration or nitsa. I'm sure you all know about the risks of driving drunk but let me tell you some surprising statistics almost twenty nine people in the united states die every day in an alcohol impaired haired vehicle crash. That's one person every fifty minutes and even though drunk driving fatalities a fallen by third in the last three decades drunk driving crashes still oh claim more than ten thousand ten thousand lives a year. Many people are unaware that driving while high can be just as dangerous in two thousand fifteen forty two percent of drivers killed in crashes ashes tested positive for drugs and from two thousand seven to two thousand fifteen marijuana use among drivers killed in crashes doubled. The truth is driving while high as deadly. The bottom line line is if you're impaired from alcohol or drugs. Don't get behind the wheel or is. Let's get back to our show. What's next day i do. Who's that noisy noisy time okay last week. I played this noisy aw aw all right so. What do you think boys. A listener named aimed evil eye who you've heard many many times so good guy right here. He said it sounds sped up but i'm guessing that it's our son ringing like a bell the singing socket it. That's a really really awesome guest solar seismology away yeah. I think so that is not correct but that was a fun on an interesting guests. Next guest is charlie ross. Charlie charlie is a friend of the show and i love i love this man and he said was this week's noisy. The ringing of a bond show he has no show is charlie provides charlie says there are these giant bells. They have in buddhist temples that they ring using a big tree trunk suspended by ropes now. Can you picture them. Yeah sure yeah right here the description he said if that was not a bond show well then maybe look it up and use it as a noisy some other time too late acts charlie charlie but you are on the right track and we have have a good guest here. I think this is about as close as we get to to a winner. This was timothy blackout and timothy says hi guys this. Week's noisy sounds like the partisans cloister bell almost certainly not the right answer but hopefully a fun so it's not the cloister bell but i i decided to get this audio because i figured steve would want me to hear it is to you doctor who fans recognized this yeah. Yes sooner. The tournus isn't it. It's kinda scary tired. That's not it but it is indeed. It sounds like a bell is isabel and it's very very cool bell sound because here it is so i'll cut right to it. No one has ever heard the liberty bell ring. That's live of course right. Oh has it hasn't been running in over one hundred years so this is what this is what john far farquaad load john four quad. John says in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine well. He's he's. He's quoting something now. The graduate students from pennsylvania state university were able to digitally create a structural model of the liberty bell from the computer model. They were able to mathematically mattingly equate the vibration of the bell and add sound. Oh my god knowing that the tone of the bell was e flat. They were able to come up with a fairly close approximation of the original. The sound of the liberty bell come on now. Listen to this listen to it again. This is probably what the liberty bell sounded like wall. Okay how are they. How do they know that that's close to the liberty bell sound sound so historically they knew that it was an e flat so they they know what note that is then what they did was they they were able to create the finished finished bell and and using the computer model that they had and then they were able to ring that bell with a computer simulation that was able to determine what what the different vibrations who would put out now the thing is when you when you play a symbol or a bell especially like when you get into these super large ones they have lots of different tones at they're putting out that sound very different like you could if you could tease out all the different tones at a thing like this makes making a lot you know like a train whistle has four four different notes said it's playing at the same time but collectively they make a particular sound talking about right. Well bell's work that way to like. There's lots of different noises in there that that all kind china together make this sound and they were able to use a computer model to simulate all of that and plus. You know evidence i like. We don't know what bells like the liberty bell sound like you know what i mean. There's other bells out there that are like the liberty bell i get that get that i wouldn't it be some variances though and the the actual crafting of the bell itself that would be of course from other bells the actual material or the alloy that it's in it and then the computer can compounds can can basically nail all that <hes> well. We don't know differences exactly right so so. How do we know i would. I would like to think just like any anything else like they. They got it about as close as they could. Figure out a way to you. We need to test it. How how can we test it. You need to make you need to make another liberty belle now. Also obviously the liberty bell is cracked. Are we talking about the crack. Liberty bell what it would sound like occur when it was intact when it was intact okay so there's that you need to you would eat yeah you could duplicate it. I would think well. I guess so i mean we could laser scan it right so we could laser printer and call today. No you know i can yes so you've got to figure out exactly what alloy they were. Using right was probably gonna lead among who knows i'm sure they could we have we have the technology breath. I would imagine that i thought it was in there and some other other things. I mean what all right anyway. Thank you offer everybody that wrote in again another great week. I got some some really cool ideas. You know what's fun is like a lot of things i can't use but they're still fun sounds announced and i've had a few people ask me like it would be great if you if you made of like you know just a a list or put them all online or something well of course that would take take a phenomenal amount of work but i i am now starting to make a collection every week of the fun stuff that comes through that i know is not good for the show but might be fun for people lizzy and maybe eventually i'll release that out there apparently the liberty bell is twenty five percent ten seventy percent copper copper tin and copper brass and bronze or both tin and copper just different ratios. I forget what that ratio be but it is sort of in the brass bronze family than thanks. That's cool so before i continue if you're going to be a dragon con this year and you'd like to see the chew at a private show. We're going to have a great one this year. We're going to be using the same hotel we use last year with an upgraded room which would be more comfortable and see a few more people and that is all found at skeptics guide dot event bright dot com. You can find all all the information you want their listen to and also less than yeah. I know it's coming up. It's i can't wait. We're gonna we're really psyched about this. We have a lot of great things evan and end <hes> which game i is going to be doing four or five panels of varying people on those panels from the group the s g you will be doing three different shows. <hes> we're going to be doing one about our book. We're going to be doing a regular live stage show and of course the private show and if you haven't heard of our science fiction review show me bob and steve do a pure science fiction for the sake in love of science fiction. It's called alpha quadrant six. That's alpha quadrant and the number six can find us on youtube and you can go to our website. We're on facebook. Would you live streaming. We cover a lot of star trek discovery doing after show for that but we do a lot of general science fiction. We just did one of the <hes> the the boys the boys from amazon prime. I hear it's great is gonna watch it soon since it's my new favorite t._v. Show the review was a lot of fun. We we do a really deep dive into the show and talk about pretty much everything that we could possibly think of <hes> so you can go. Check us out on. Are you to page or you can go to conference dot skeptics that enzi. This will give you all the information you need about the conference coming up in new zealand but if you happen happen to want to know the dates the dates are what steve they are november twenty nine th through december first the issue will be there and we are then after that conference going to fly over over to melbourne melbourne melbourne melbourne melbourne i can i can think of that is the way you pronounce. It and that's it all those ways. We'll get no more emails on that. I learned on that one sixth through eighth and it's it's in melbourne and all the information is found wherever find out all the information at w._w._w. Dot skeptics dot com <hes> dot a._u. The a us stands for australia. Oh is that was four and we'll be there. We'll be all right guys. Here's this week's new noisy <music> aw aw aw <music> all right guys if you think you know what this week's noisy is or you've heard something so cool that you can't believe it. Send it to me at w. at the skeptics guy dot org. Thank you j. jay jay. You said this special report. There's just an interesting discussion. You said this around. Jane sparked so much discussion at we'd bring it onto the show. Yeah you guys heard word of the cuts worth international fixed calendar. Yes nice description so this is what a thirteen month calendar that every single goal month is identical rights eight days twenty eight days. The first day of the month is always sunday. The last day of the month is always saturday. If you by any chance wanted to know so if something happens on the nineteenth it's always on a thursday. The nineteenth is always on a thursday forever. That's it and the thing about it is without thinking of all all the things that would make this incredible herculean effort globally it jus- cleans up all of the ridiculous things about the modern calendar because every month is identical antica l- thirteen months twenty eight days starting on sunday ending on sat right and at the end of the last month. I liked that at the end of the last month. There's one day that's it's new this new year's day and not a month one day. It's going down. It's one day in between the calendars and then if it's leakier you get two of <hes> two days that are totally free and then you jumped back into your sunday the first monday the second <hes> for the first month of the year so this is so clean and an interesting but i'm sure programme can happen yeah right because i know software is a problem but there's gotta be other reasons well first of all. If you're birthdays on a tuesday it's going to be on a tuesday for the rest of your life sucks. Although you waiting for that finally a weekend day for you're never gonna happen yeah but who cares because invariably. You're always like okay fine. My birthday is on wednesday. Let's saturday saturday before the saturday. After who you let see just when you could make the actual day would be on the same day of the week also everyone everyone. I know that the transition would be painful not just because of all the forms all the history books and everything when you switch over dates manuscripts causes a lot of downstream problems uh-huh but also like your birthday would be different and you'd have to sort of rewrite. He grew up your whole life with your birthday that number being blazoned in your brain. You know what if you get the thirteenth month smart or whatever the hell go by. That's the cool thing is they would have to come up with another month name. Which i think is so cool. It's coming up with another color month-to-month face yeah i i would love to see that the process of trying to develop another month. Maybe it would it be named after a god or what would they do you steve. I hear you right. You're jay. When when was this calendar i proposed question nineteen o two yes but using wait what calendar calendar date this exact one cots worth calendar nineteen o two okay so yes so it hasn't caught fire in the last one hundred seventeen years you think when they were starting they'd be like whoa let's talk about calendars. You know what i mean. Before we start programming time to do this would have been about five hundred years. You know they they kind of like the gregorian calendar. What would this do to the season with us. I mean we have first month's show. We'd have the dead of winter for some of our eventually we would have have the middle of the summer would be our month and they wouldn't have shift the seasons drastically no can i still three hundred sixty five days in the year just that they won't cleanly divide into three months of of course right yeah. Okay yeah all right so let me give you my personal opinion. These are the types of things that i would think. Vocations would be doing yeah because they're like yup. This is logical. Let us do it. We will suffer through in the next. Generations can thank us but humans would never do. I am totally for this. It makes sense. It's easy. It's it's so easy. It's ridiculous it. Just it's like it just seems like a no brainer but i i get it. It would probably cost tens of billions of dollars for humanity the two of them to fix but what what you need to do steve i think would be is you'd have to run the calendars like side by side for five years or fifteen fifteen year whenever it would take so like okay. It's you know it's august fourteenth as we record this show in in this new calendar. It is actually september something jay. We haven't has been able to switch over to fully metric in this country steve. I'm not i'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying if we were if we if humanity had its shit together. Gather yeah which we don't if united states had its shit together and we would have to get on us but also but there is something to be said for four per history right again again the the fact that everything that was recorded in written up to that change over with now be obsolete right. When did everything happened. We'd have to like translate. The dates of everything did may not be worth it so the bite by it's never going to happen because the alleged benefits are slight light and the pain of the transition is hugh. Yeah i expect more from you. Steve another another analogy. The divorce keyboard keyboard the keyboard is superior to the kurdish keyboard and yet that change is never going to happen to entrenched is to entrench french so i mean i i've been typing my whole life on a critic keyboard pretty good at it what i want to learn different setup of keys because it's mathematically slightly advantageous no way that a fair assessment of of the advantage i mean it's much more efficient. It's definitely much more efficient. If it's yeah it's a little bit more than slightly mathematically better more efficient definitely a better keys so if if it was a hundred hundred and fifty years ago or whatever deciding what keyboard layout which we should have the divorce action out over the party absolutely just like if you're as hundreds of thousand years ago we deciding what calendar you could make the argument for the thirteen months twenty eight day calendar absolutely but now that we're the now that culturally entrenched. It's it's too late. That's just suck it up and deal with it right well. I mean finding. I guess okay but we could. We could all okay. We could have dreams right. It's an interesting thought experiment like living in a world with that calendar. What would it be like what it really would. How big were the advantages do gada. I like the fact that like knowing that. If it's the sixth day of the month it's always a that would be a friday right <hes> <unk> knowing what the day the week is automatically just from the date and being able to calculate like sometimes you think like how many weeks between now and then he kind of fudge. It was four four weeks sort of per month but then there's like a little bit extra so it would be easier to do those kinds of calculations because four weeks is exactly a month and it would make things easier like paycheck etc. You get paid every two weeks. It's twice a month just yeah i totally get it all adds up evenly and everything like i would probably go for that that calendar if we weren't already stuck with the one we got. You know what i'm saying. I do yep teijin our clocks either twenty four hour day yeah. Let's let's get rid of daylight. Saving time i go and then we can talk about changing over the free free calendar that celsius crap fahrenheit. You earn heights good for the environment so celsius for everything else. Okay okay. We'll do one quick name logical fallacy. This comes from max. The ginger orion max writes been a listener since late twenty sixteen when when attending scoop fest event hosted by the improv podcast matt and mattingly's ice cream social your podcast came up from a few attendees as i should check checkout anyway my question i had shared an article about saudi arabia declaring all atheists terrorists a friend commented. This isn't any more ridiculous than all. Muslims are terrorists. I wasn't sure which logical fallacy this was because a few seem to fit but i am not confident on how well thank you for all what you do max ginger okay max. I think the first question to ask is is there a logical fallacy in he. I think he's saying the logical. Fallacy is equating the the claim that all muslims are terrorists with this is where it gets tricky is so our mission is to start out if there is a logical fallacy in here. It's a false analogy right. That's the only one that i think that fits. Is there a false analogy between these two claims names but it depends on what claim you're talking about so on the one side. There is just the just the claim all muslims are terrorists on the other side. You have saudi arabia declaring. All atheists are terrorists. So if you're just talking about those it was two things as claims the claim that all atheists are terrorists is a pretty reasonable analogy to claim that all muslims are terrorists right sharp. I don't i don't. I think that that's yeah. They're both equally stupid but i think that that's a perfectly crumlin analogy. I don't see that that's a false analogy. The point was it's no more that saudi arabia like a government declaring officially that atheists are automatically likely designated terrorists that certainly is not analogous to just the belief for the claim that all muslims are terrorists. One is actually the official action of a government now. If the united states government declared that we're gonna treat all muslims automatically terrorists in them were back to the reasonable analogy right yeah all make sense yes so far. I think that's it. There isn't necessarily a fallacy there. It depends on what exactly you're trying to say is analogous but if anything there could be a false analogy depending on how far you're taking it that make sense <hes> false analogies can sometimes be subtle and some oftentimes probably more often than not when somebody is saying that something is a false analogy there over calling it in my experience something <hes> the the most common error i see people make is when they dismiss dismissing analogy because the two things are not same in every way or they're not the same in a specific way that they decide it is important <hes> but that's not what it analogy is right so oftentimes we can say that these things are analogous in this one way even though they may be completely different in other ways that still is a perfectly reasonable analogy but i i often see people try to dismiss the analogy by saying well. It's not the same in this other way who cares. I didn't say they're identically the same thing i said. There are analogous in this one way to question them. Yeah yeah interesting question. Thank you max the ginger yeah gingers or a guys. Let's move on with science fiction. It's time for science science fiction each week. I come up at three sites side effects to real one fake and i challenged my panelists got. Tell me which one is the fake just three regular news items this week. Nothing you guys are still smarting from the sweep last week so i just gave you three regular news items to fertile. You guys ready yeah. Do it okay either number. One a study saudi of investment decisions made by non experts fines that they intuitively pick more risky portfolios and would be better off picking stocks at random number two the most accurate estimate to date indicates that earth-like planets orbiting around sun like stars in the goldilocks zone. I should occur on average in one out of every ten thousand stars and number. Three scientists have discovered a way to make some existing listing antibiotics hundreds of times more effective against resistant strains of bacteria j. gophers. Yes this first one. A study of investment decisions made by non non experts finds that they intuitively pick more risky portfolios and be better off picking stocks at random. Yes so you know investment decisions made by non experts. You had me right there. Okay whatever comes after that. If it sounds ridiculous i believe it. I seem i seem to think that this one makes sense that they would be better off. Picking stocks at random okay so the second one here we are saying that earth like planets would would occur about in one out of every ten ten thousand stars where there were a planet earth is in the right zone to the sun but i would argue that there really isn't a goldilocks zone from things that that i've read in an hearing people talk about why that's more of a science fiction anything than it is science. I don't know the ultimate truth there but it does seem to make a lotta sense that a planet like the earth with the relative size of the earth in iran in its relative position to the son like what would happen to our atmosphere if we were in a closer orbit in this is complicated as hell but i would say that this one is is between the first and the second. This one's a fake so far in the second. I'm sorry in the final one scientists. I have discovered a way to make some existing antibiotics hundreds of times more effective against resistant strains of bacteria. Okay now you could say that but you didn't tell us the mechanism so therefore for this is like literally like throwing darts at a darpa khel dartboard blindfolded like sure eventually like they'll probably be able to come up with something. We haven't told us anything media that i can actually dissect other than the fact that they've done this hundreds of times more effective i mean i think it's possible that they've discovered a way to make some existing antibiotics and i got. I hope it's true but there's not enough information here. I don't like that. I'm going to go with the second one about the goldilocks as the fake because of my incredible knowledge of planet cheering bob the investment one makes sense that they that the non-experts <unk> would pick more risky portfolios that they will be attracted to them yeah picking them at random sure i mean that's that seems possible third one here some existing antibiotics hundreds of times more effective should jermaine yeah. Let's let's hope that's really hope that's true. I really really do that's a hundred times. More effective is amazing and i could see some sort of tweak to the antibiotic biotic to make it <hes> much more effective against the resistant strains of bacteria that seems plausible as well. Let's go to the one that jay thinks is fiction earth like sons in the goldilocks zone of trying to run some numbers in my head of what i don't know how many earth-like planets found and if i knew that then multiply by that by ten thousand the result would that be a reasonable number of stars to have searched through already to come up with this average but i don't know how many earth-like planets we've found <hes> <unk> screw these these are. This is a tough one. I'll i'll go. I'll go with the j. The earth like planet that's fiction as well it could it could very very wealthy and evan all right well regarding the planets only because i looked this up recently. I forget which why was looking it up. I think we've discovered roughly about four thousand exoplanets. We've identified now but but that doesn't that's only one small piece of the puzzle muscle the most accurate estimate today so you have to extrapolate that based on how many stars have they observed of the hundred billion two hundred two billion that we have in our galaxy compared to the four thousand exo planets. We've discovered some of those or multiple planets around the same star <hes> so you we know a lot a lot of different variables in that equation so it's kind of just guessing sort of at that point if this one to ten thousand ratio is gonna wind up being correct i have a feeling is that it will be and therefore i'm going to say that i think the fiction is is the stocks one only because they've got these old ideas in my head for mold articles i've read about the randomness of stocks and you know people people children monkeys and blindfolded people at dart boards picking stocks basically the random you better off picking random but i don't think that they go necessarily surly for the more risky portfolio if they do. It's out of ignorance. They don't realize that they're more risky but if i don't know if they know that they're more risk. I don't know that that that people's tendencies go in that direction when non blinded in this in this particular situation either so i have a feeling that the investment decision and one is gonna be the fiction of this group. Okay striking out on your own again yup so let's start with number. Three scientists have discovered a way to make aches some existing antibiotics hundreds of times more effective against resistant strains of bacteria. You guys all think and hope that this one is science and this one is science nice. How is it as good as it sounds or us probably better ooh wow so this since since the antibiotics in question are amino gleich asides class of antibiotics sides are the main mechanism of resistance to a munich lakeside antibiotics is inhibition of uptake rates with bacteria become resistant by inhibiting the ability of the of the antibiotic to be transported into the bacteria right so they blocks uptake so what they found was that if you add a ram no lipid ram no lipids if you <hes> add that to the mix to the biotic it induces the uptake of the antibiotic into staph aureus which is the particular bacteria that they were studying in the study so this is a way of of targeting a resistant bacteria populations end basically rescuing the efficacy of munich like aside antibiotics addicts by overcoming the the mechanism of the resistance the blocking of the uptake of the antibiotic into the south. They also suspect i mean this is. This is find that this is often what they say but that it would be very difficult for bacteria to evolve resistance to <music>. This mechanism doesn't mean they're not gonna find a way but <hes> this could get us. At least another generation of use out of these antibiotics against resistant strains will bob. That's all we need is about one more generation right. We're good. We're good yeah our kids. Our grandkids grandkids to whatever it takes all right. Let's go back to number one a study of investment decisions made by non experts fines that they intuitively pick more risky portfolios and will be better off picking stocks at random avenue think this one is the fiction jay bob you think this one is science and this one is science. I thought this'll be fun to talk about so here's there's a layer here. So why is it. What is it what's going on. What is the intuition. That's going awry here so evan. They're not intending to pick risky portfolios folios when they're trying to pick a safe portfolio the they intuitively pick a risky portfolio up picks have the opposite effect so they they would actually be better off just picking stocks at random which means they're not interpreting correctly what they're looking at is. It's not a matter of interpretation reputation. It's a it's a a again. The exact mental error is very interesting so if you ask people to pick a safe in a low risk portfolio they would but if experts would pick a diversified portfolio right and how do you diversify portfolio you pick items you pick stocks that are in different sectors that tend to be independent of each other or that that tend to be the inverse of each other meaning that when one sector goes up the other sector will go down when one set goes down the other sectoral tend to go up so that way ahead. It's a true hedge against if you know if the energy sector is going down this other whatever the textile sector goes up. I'm just making that up. I'm just saying so. Have you. Diversify your portfolio knowing how the different types of stocks are likely to behave changes in the market. You can <music> average them out so that your your all your entire investment won't won't plummet all at once right but what people who don't i don't know how to pick stocks do is they. They actually tend to pick stocks that tracks together and because the thinking is that because because if you're looking at the history of stocks they pick stocks that all go up and down together to the same eggs in the same bisque yeah so they which is an inherently risky portfolio because if that's the those sector even though they might be different they will tend to go up and go down together so that means their entire investment could could crash at the same time and they think that they do that because it's simple. It's it's easier to put them to wrap their head around and they all these things. I'm going to pick these five stocks as they're all tracking together you. You know they sort of intuitively do that. When it's the opposite of what they do and also it may be counterintuitive to pick two different stocks that seem to to be working against each other like how am i going to make money if my stock goes up this other one's gonna go down but they don't realize that that's a hedge. That's what you want. You know if you if you have have that then you're stocks will slowly rise with the increase of the market but it'll average out but if you are trying to make money by having everything go up up at once you're also creating the probability that everything will go down at once so the risk versus benefit isn't there the potential for making a lot of money is a lot less than the potential for losing money so it's what you're better off. Having a balanced portfolio by people intuitively do not do that so in fact. If you picked your stocks at random it would be it would be more balanced than what people <unk> untrained. You're not experts would intuitively do okay all veins. That's the most accurate estimates to date indicates that earth like planets orbiting around sun like stars in the goldilocks zone should occur on average in one out of every ten thousand thousand stars is the fiction so that's three criteria here right there. It has to be an earth like planet earth like so they had to operationally define that that had to be within certain parameters size and and mass <hes> and then in in the goldilocks zone had to be within a certain distance the star and have a year between so many days and other days so all things had to average out to specific parameters earth like not identical tickle but just within reasonable parameters earth and also be orbiting around a sun like star to that eliminates all of the red dwarfs right yeah all the stars ours is not like our own sun so you know hoping the waiting with all of those criteria you would your whittling down many but actually that's that it's one in every four stars well more love. How could it be that common because that's what they calculated. It would be one in every four stars would be an earthquake the planet around a sun like well. How much are they lady. Accent best. Estimate today is the best estimate today based by all of the exoplanets that we've gathered so far wow aw one in four yeah i was surprised wow yeah universe must be tissue plug added to the drake equation to see what comes out right at number one in four orb was the was the best estimate but they also give the error bars. You know they range it could be anywhere from one in every two stars two one in every thirty three stars out three threes extreme <hes> yeah so two to thirty three but they said like the would be the peak of that system curve yeah. That's my mind was going the other direction thing yeah. It'd be a much higher numbers. That's funny. That's higher than i was thinking. It'd be like one one percent two percent one one hundred ten thousand surprise me too. I mean i really low balled it to make sure it was clearly fiction yeah yeah but <hes> i would have thought maybe around something like one to two percent but yeah one four. That's that's pretty darn good twenty percent amazing. I hope that's true incred. I never would have imagined so yeah but how how can we gather more data that estimate gets more and more accurate but i doubt it's going to change by an order of magnitude i mean i think that's probably pretty close to where it's going to settle in cool. It's great. That's great is that we've collected enough data on exo planets. We could start to do these kind of statistical analysis. You know i was when we first started discovering hot jupiters. I i was getting a little worried because you know a hot jupiters like imagine if jupiter slowly moved in towards the sun on gravitational interaction should between them and knocked every inner planet out of its orbit and then jupiter settled into an orbit inside where the current orbit of mercury inside mercury uh-huh that's a hot jupiter so we were discovering a lot of systems that had hodgson like holy shit what if it turns out that most systems that's what happens but then it turns out that only only like one percent of stellar systems we have a hot jupiter like that and it was just we were finding them first because those are the easiest. Here's plan is to find. They're big and they're close. They have short period yet. It's a low hanging for exactly so. I was like i read that right. That's the drunk looking for the keys under the light right yeah so i was happy when the first estimates came as a one percenter great only one percent who good i thought it was gonna be like ninety percent to that was great. Wow yeah these estimates now. It's like yeah. There's going to be a lot of earth-like planets. That is awesome so that we're going to plug into the drake equation done. I just did it. What did you come definite grants number seven or seven cool three hiros so these are these three items two of which were pretty clearly good news and the other one is good advice area guest. If you have no idea what what you're doing just get get a portfolio a mutual fund right. Let somebody else balance it for you. Something knows what they're i'll bet you. There's a great course teaching people how to make make some good stock probably give us a quote. Scientific thinking is being inquisitive skeptical and taking nothing for granted prestige fame success are irrelevant. Perfect theories are irrelevant. The smallest piece of contradictory evidence can refute your grand unifying theory eerie and science encompasses all that it's an emergent concept and this is what is self correcting that was written by sam schwartzkopf workup who's a cognitive insistems neuroscientist who blogs at neuro neurotic which is a pretty cool log and where he was talking there about the self correcting nature of science is quote very nice all right guys. Thank you all for joining joining me this week chairman. Thanks steve and until next week. This is your a skeptics guide to the universe. Skeptics scarred universes produced by s. g. u. Productions dedicated to produce science and critical thinking for more information visit us at the skeptic skied dot headquarters. Send your questions to info at the skeptics guy dot org if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do go to patriotic dot com slash slash skeptics guide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the community. Our listeners and supporters are what make estrogen possible and remember drunk. Driving is a big until you could get in a crash. People could get hurt or killed and you could get arrested her huge legal expenses or even lose your job so next time you plan on drinking. Make sure sure you plan ahead designate a sober driver or use a ride service to get home safely.

steve it new york bob bob ronald graham evan bernstein jeffrey epstein michelle scientist united states Cavendish england apple epstein ramsey kevin dish billy joel official naples engineer australia
Episode 377: Howard Unruh

Last Podcast on the Left

1:34:23 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 377: Howard Unruh

"Place to escape to the lost cast on the left. That's one of the cannibalistic listen started. Only fittings think that we record today's episode on the first time that tool has released two single and thirteen because i think that howard howard would be a massive fan of fear inoculate new dirge like single from tool. He might be a maynard. I got to iraq. Are you still in tool camp. I'm a tool camp guy because you know what it did. It gave bass players a reason to feel cocky. All the lotteries feel caught. I let us say come on yeah. I know that but tool was bass player band. Bass players always got big dick and can't they actually agree with. Hey what's up everyone. Welcome to the last podcast on the left. I am ben joined by marcus. I and of course we have henry zabriskie on the beautiful west coast. I'll you know what i love the way to start a week. One of my favorite ways this week is to walk ah to spend several hours looking at old tiny crime scene photos of amash shooter and all the bodies in the in the fun outfits fits from if they were ladder with blood <hes> to the point where i am having active shooter nightmares that are outside of just what's happening opening in the news. That's wonderful won't it's important. It's i guess it's important to be prepared. I suppose it's very sad. It's a good time for the good the time for protective outerwear companies oh this is a golden age and hopefully they can make a skirt with pockets so today. We're talking about a man. His name is howard run now. In full disclosure we decided to tackle the subject of america's first widely sadly known mass shooter about two weeks ago because we needed a one shot episode to give us enough time to get together the research for the big series that starting next week and when we decided to do it jokingly texted henry something along the lines like we'll be fine doing it just so long as there's not a mass shooting between now and then right man. We just laughed laughed marcus. Does it make a lot of good zingers like um marcus jamming all any young men of mass tragedy jokes next day gilroy garlic festival jeez <hes> three people were killed but you know we decided to go ahead the episode because we honestly cynically thought ought and people are probably gonna forget about gilroy by the time the episodes released. It's brutal unless you were there or you knew someone who was there at. Let's be honest. You probably would have forgotten about golf overall. If you haven't already forgotten about gilroy comes the most l._a. Sentence i'm gonna say is that that day of my i went to a yoga class and the yoga teacher was on her way to the gilroy garlic festival jeez yeah she's fine but he's yoga and garlic good. Just send in your mixtures of food. What is what is only the garlic seem class. So this is great. I love feeling like like a piece of spaghetti in an italian stew or regardless we moved forward but then el paso murders happened last saturday with the dayton murders coming later that night and there were still others in the last couple of weeks that were barely blips in the news. You had the disgruntled employees kill to a walmart mississippi yet. The mass shooting here in brooklyn out in brownsville. Eleven people were wounded and one was killed. I didn't even make the local papers early made the local news. It was not on the front page of the daily news like i. I was looking it up earlier today. You know where it is new york one. That's the best news source in the newer one. I miss it. Yes new york. What is great local new york news. It's great local news but it's not even the post i remember when i used to work in the financial district. I used to turn on new york one just to see if there was terrorist activity the in manhattan so i wouldn't have to go to work. You were recording this on wednesday before we go out for a tour this weekend. So there's a fucking chance there might be another mass shooting between now and the time we release on friday night in other words. If we were to wait until there were no mass shootings to cover a mass nash shooter we would never cover any mass shooters and why then the question is marcus. Why are we covering shooters. Besides the fact that we run a podcast us where we cover every single thing that is dark and fucking horrible because these dick heads are just as worthy of scorn and derision as the serial killers we cover week after week absolutely and this story is fascinating no matter what the context so. We're going to move ahead with where all this shit started camden new jersey z. Can you smell the street fish yes. It's like a mailbox is a farting beautiful new jersey where every angels got got us a wonderful beautiful streets a lot of grass and they have their a lot of people think that the era of the mass shooter began with charles whitman picking up college students from the bell tower at the university of texas in nineteen sixty six but almost twenty years before that that there was howard unruh. It's charles whitman. Charles whitman's led zeppelin right but howard owner is the trog no kidding over the course of thirteen minutes on september six nineteen forty nine howard owner took what came to be known as the walk of death through his camden new jersey neighborhood murdering thirteen people and wounding three at the time ohio was diagnosed as a schizophrenic mostly because people back then they figured there was no way somebody would do this. If they weren't quote unquote crazy and schizophrenia back then was just kind of a catchall diagnosis for abnormal in disturbing behavior okay but who who knew that his behavior was sort of like a seed that would be pushed into the soil of america and be one of our common methods of everyday crime essentially just some weird whatever whatever it is the dark soul of this country that has conferred that expressing itself in these explosions of violence howard on row was one of the very early examples of that <hes> but howard owner was not a schizophrenic. Admittedly though i mean owner did have his pressures he may have suffered from post world war two p._t._s._d. E._s._p._n. He was a veteran and he was gay living in a time when homosexuality was not only accepted but fully illegal it was it was fucking illegal to be gay. I forgot all about all this. It's bad to be fair. I'm not sure how well it's doing in camden new jersey right now either so we can just those cigar smoke good angels or getting blown out jersey baby right but perhaps the biggest pressure of all on howard own ro visit he liked the vast s. majority of mass shooters was an unapologetic unlikable incurable asshole <hes> comparable to awkward dick heads like james holmes and sunk show. Oh that's his biggest flaw was a fucking asshole looked like a nerd frankenstein really he was he was all forehead had he looked like lurch of lurch got wedgies from bigger lurches. Oh today we call howard psychopath in when howard was asked asked why he did what he did. He only expressed remorse that he didn't kill more saying he killed thousands. If he had enough bullets dairy mr right so you mentioned show and an home homework batman movie theater shooter virginia tech aurora in virginia tech yeah <hes> were they influenced to this influence anybody or he was forgotten. Okay totally forgotten okay outside of true crime circles and academics howard owner just kind and went away alcoa nineteen forty nine because there wasn't anything else like it until nineteen sixty six and honestly people wanted to forget about howard owner at the time. It was one of the most terrifying thing to ever happen in america so they weren't doing like camden new jersey like it's the death march tour on the headache targets and stuff like they would do now. They didn't have as much of a rockabilly movement okay in camden at the time the about owner those as far as the media coverage bridge goes a guy named meyer berger actually won a pulse won the pulitzer prize that year for his writing on the camden massacre. It's beautiful. It is so beautiful article. It's a meg oh and read. It's meyer berger. I can't remember what like there's an album the politics side. It's called mass shooting tight deadline. He wrote it within six hours. I do and of going doing the interviews. I it's hot and journalism schools now. It's one of the most beautiful pieces of true crime writing i've ever it's up there with capote okay now and as far. There's like sources go. We didn't actually mean to do herald checker sourced episodes in a row but we discovered after getting an owner that scheckter had written a fantastic fantastic chapter in a book called rampage that was about the camden massacre so that along with a wonderful indepth peace and smithsonian magazine by patrick sour provided provided a lot of the information you're about to hear also inside the minds of mass murderers why they killed by catherine rams which has some she does jump to a lot conclusions and her own version of a jump to conclusions of spree killers but <hes> her information is pretty solid good little read no yeah ransoms john's a hell of a researcher great so without further ado let's get into the story of america's first widely known mass shooter howard o'hara now as far as howard's upbringing upbringing goes it wasn't marked with the sort of tragic events you might expect most abnormal aspect of his childhood was that he didn't walk or talk until he was sixteen months old and he she had quote a prolonged period of toilet training mommy. I don't think you understand. I just like to sit. Honestly that's not bad. I didn't talk until i was two years old. I grunted and rolled over. My brothers brought me everything. It didn't make me lazy in any way but now it made up for not speaking but that's not that's not abnormals yeah exactly. It's not that weird. It's not that weird. I couldn't talk shoes until i was eight and they thought that they put me in remedial classes for hot second thinking it again that i was mentally handicap and actually i was so not mentally handicapped that i had problems with my fingers reaching my shoeless. Oh really really the only thing in howard onerous childhood that was in any way abnormal was only abnormal for the time when howard was about nine nine years old whose parents got a divorce which in the thirties just didn't happen. His parents were sam and frieda unrest and his father worked for the american dredging dredging company and all that dredging kept sam out of the house which contributed to the disintegration of his marriage to free also. He worked at a company where the job was guess. Lifting things out of sludge dredging is stretching dragging the bottom of the river for treasures or body honestly so it's not romantic come back with a bunch of like toilet seat rims and a guy that another christmas wreath. We put a call paul bows on his shit jesus. Gonna oh love. That sounds very romantic. You can find a lot of things at the bottom of a lake so after salmon roe left howard's mother got a job as packer at the evanston soap company and supported howard and howard younger brother james. We'll say pre automation. Jobs are funny to me yeah packer the packer packer drudgery weekend. We have a family now used to work in this country. We don't know a lot about howard's younger years the according to his high school yearbook his only extracurricular was the science club his nickname wrong with them so far. There's nothing wrong with the way you set up career a lot of people who are in the science club. I would have been in the science club. If my school could have afforded science club. It's all part of the av squad and i also started started. The risk club really would have loved to have all those things. I see how many people joined you risk club. Mayor was five stalwart members members each one braver than the next each one more bespectacled man that we called ten is because he had five sets of glasses song. Oh it must have been very good at risk furthermore howard's yearbook. They listed nickname. His nickname was how cherkessia yeah yeah how how like if my nickname was mark yeah when it's better than calling him offered she's calling howard's arts and end <hes> howard onerous. Life ambition at the age of eighteen was to be a generic government employees again. Great benefits teves just making decisions visions as a fifteen year old honestly so far so not abnormal and as far as grades went he was also on remarkable yearned mostly bees in the area of cooperation cooperation courtesy and dependability so far. This man is making me feel really bad about my own because my mom used to say sees get degrees when in reality c. pluses get degrees but that was my report card and he well he did get some sees he sees in the areas of mental alertness and personal impression and what is the class of mental illness ernest. Just clap in your fucking years. Why in the nineteen thirties are the judging. Little children like the dogs talks seem like he might have been good gate. Check the gums excellent gums find seta genitalia mothballs are their profit traffic perfectly drooped do last time. I watched westminster. There was a judge that was actively molesting the dog. He was into the but way too. I felt really strange. I remember there was a guy that corgi the core was a big one in the mid size when i remember when the judge got underneath the horn like sorta like when you look like eliot spitzer his pants off socks on and he just was teabag. This dog and everyone was like interesting. Oh he's really getting in there and the dog gonna keep second-place seconds not bad at westminster not at all well really the only things that howard unruh of really cared about were model trains stamp stamp collecting and church. Okay i mean he was inert. Spee was a full on nerd and he looked part. There is no like you see that picture of howard era and it's exactly what like you take that face and you extrapolate it to eight chan now same guy. I mean there what what were the other options didn't you stamp collection was big bottle transfer. I don't know if they were big. Amongst big boulders orders do what else other options was to dredge or play stickball on play stickball play marbles with the boys go to the jukebox shop true well howard i mean he is when he was younger his faith very important. He was a devout evangelical lutheran <hes> but his faith did later just disappear completely after high school howard didn't get that dream government job instead he spent the years from nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty two working generic but respectable manual labor jobs like printers helper stamping press operator and sheet metal worker. All johns don't exist in america of course not guys like live not opposite of comfortably not comfortably in a gray area of mediocrity dougherty where they live in this spot neither getting enough negative attention right. Get somebody pay attention or getting enough positive attention because what they do is start to develop his own little world. He basically put himself in this place which is not it is manual labor some more skill than others <hes> but he didn't have to apply lie anything to himself. Meanwhile deep on the inside. He is starting to formulate ideas that he might be a superior person being forced in an inferior perio- place interesting generic might be the worst life gray very christian bale in the machinist yeah unless you're fucking totally cool with there. Are people just like you get. You got your job. You make your money like but then people invest importance and other things all of his other interests were kind of these passing thing just kind of busy work for church church at the time became both a way for him to lord it over other people he would bring his church teachings to school and lecture people. That's what kind of people knew about him was that he was not even then about jesus christ okay yeah i mean he was one of those guys he started a believe he was superior and all the work around him was inferior <hes> but he also did nothing to actually tell himself out of that and they'll do anything better with his life. That is a recipe for disaster point. In one thousand nine hundred eighty two howard owner would make a decision that either fucked up forever or woke up something that was waiting waiting to be activated that was the year that owner enlisted in the army and was sent to the european theater of world war two right into the shit right at me. My fucking mean pop up. My pop up was there man in italy. Italy was fighting. Four mussalini was command us a week man van who loves pasta because you you have made for the u._s. Army using u._s. army killing italian. He was killing really kind of wanted him to be pro. Mussalini over you the way that you lord my family's history me on a regular basis. We were abused part of the good boys us <music> caught under ground. He lost all his teeth so mussalini is dead body hanging square spaghetti boys owner again i mean he got drafted into the army. He went just like everybody else did but one dude who served with howard named challah our said yeah into challah is an interesting name but he said howard howard conducted himself in an intelligent quiet courteous obedient manner rating howard service in the three hundred forty second armored field artillery battalion under general george george patten as excellent. Ooh i just feel like shawl was born after he's baby feet pushed out a bunch of red man chewing tobacco from his mother who just a bunch of chalk came out autrey. I'll tell you one thing bound. Grow gay get personally screwed shooter it. It also gun usually straight shooter. Nowadays my opinion this change could also he could eat the most albury steak on she. If you've been listening to this show you've heard me talk about frame bridge. Oh boy la frame bridge which they make it super easy and affordable to frame your favorite things like your mother murder from art prints and posters the travel photo sitting on your phone. Here's how it works. Go to frame bridge dot com and upload your photo or they'll send you packaging to safely mail in your physical pieces preview item online in any frame style. Choose your favorite or get free recommendations from their talented onto designers. The expert team had frame bridge will custom frame your item and deliver your finnish piece directly to your door ready to hang instead of the hundreds. You'd pay it a framing raving store. Their prices start at thirty nine dollars and all shipping is free plus. My listeners will get fifteen percent off there. I ordered frame bridge dot com when they use my code l. e._f._t. Fifteen honestly i trusted frame bridge frame some photos for my wedding and they did a killer job at a very very sweet very fast very efficient and it's such a nice easy painless gift to give to a family member. That has some sort of emotional hold over you and what you do get started today. Frame your photos are send the perfect perfect gift for weddings. Birthdays and special events go to frame bridge dot com and use promo code l. e. f. t. you'll save an additional fifty percent off your first order. Just go to frame bridge dot com promo code l. e. t. frame bridge dot com promo code left. Thanks to squarespace for supporting last podcasts on the left from websites and online stores marketing tools and analytics squarespace is the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business no matter what you need the website for squarespace can help wanna share your tasteful bigfoot erotica but the prudes in your online forums keep banning you because just how sweet and thick and girthy your bigfoot erotica uh-huh is spur space has beautiful template showing just how girthy bigfoot candy or al how beautiful but moth man can have created by world class designers designers in their free insecure hosting with nothing to patch or upgrade ever makes it easy for anyone to have a website no matter. How tech savvy are you selling doggie. Been dana's pups can rep your podcast you got to you got to get that street team going. That's us we here at l. P. n. u. squarespace to host our website and list all our merch with squarespace own your own domain and promote your business with their powerful ecommerce functionality that makes it easy to sell anything online bayonets bayonet holders bayonet cleaners squarespace gives you the power to customize the look and feel settings products and more with just clicks and squarespace just launched email campaigns. They're all in one platform makes it easy z. to unify your brand voice from your home page to your emails and talk about to as many people you can as fast as possible. Just how nice boss man's buddies and have you ever have any questions. Concerns just hit up there twenty four seven award winning customer service team had squarespace dot com slash last pod for a free trial when you're ready to launch us the offer code l. a. the s. t. p. o. d. to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. You'll hear again and again and more particularly world war. Two is the story about the soldier purposely shooting over the heads of enemies because contrary to popular belief humans for the most part are not born killers especially when the enemy looks like them as they did in the european theater of war <hes> that's why they have to train like what makes the grass grow blood blood blood. That's why they do that sort of training because they have to remove the stops that most humans have they keep us from killing each other because humans have evolved to be social creatures. Yes i remember that tony morrison poem grow blood blah blah blah but she <hes> it's. It's really interesting how you have to break somebody down to a robot gonna find there's some people that are better at it than others and then what does that mean when they come back from the work it would seem to me so far the character breakdown that you've given he would be a perfect soldier. He absolutely was howard. Howard owner was not one of those men that needed to be broken down other soldiers called him unrattled and efficient with a rifle and owner participated in he was in the battle the bulge i mean he was fighting back against hitler one last time yes or henry and i battle of the different thirty call the battle of the swallow. Oh i am just getting swollen. You are your served in the battle. The bulge with distinction while the rest of the soldiers were spending every free moment they could. I'm trying to get laid spent all his free time with his bible and there was a very good reason why owner was doing this or the time. They just thought he was. They thought i mean they call them nerds and they separated from the other officers because they would go and fuck all night and be like what are you doing buddy. We just got done blowing up nazis all day. Aren't you horny and say but then he's just they're working on his bible. It's like i wish i could bottle according to hear elephants were made before and getting. Did you know that it was done by briefly mentioned earlier. Howard owner was gay time when homosexuality was only considered highly immoral but was actually punishable in america by a lengthy prison sentence really howard's bible study didn't set him that far apart from other soldiers because there plenty of religious guys in the service back then right what really set owner apart was how he approached the act of killing while most of the soldiers who did actively kill did so with a sense of duty and eventual guilt that they just pushed down as hard as they could when they got home right howard era was privately relishing every single kill um see until the day he was arrested owner obsessively recorded his day to day life in a series of diaries one day during the war. One one of howard squad mates who later joined the n._y._p._d. Took a look at one of howard's battlefield diaries. This soldier found that owner had carefully noted the time time date and location of every kill and would howard was able to see the body up-close and study its condition howard even described how each dead nazi looked after death in great detail <hes> june i it was at three p._m. In the afternoon it was a stump that add a frog on it and when and i look deep into his eyes i saw a tiny kooky little smile here. If anything could be compared to someone like timothy mcveigh who joined the service just to see what it was like to kill someone and howard discovered the he liked it even so both howard's brother james and howard's awards father said that when howard returned from the war he was never the same. I think a little similar to what we've seen other killers that have served time in the war or a various wars anew actually saw combat. There's very few of them. Actually saw combat joined army. He got training but part of what the training sort of does it does create a the sense of the there's a hierarchy and structure you go and to you especially to somebody who views the world like he has an emotional filter right where everything kind of is a shallow to him as possible. A key can't seem to break through he he has no empathy for other human beings army and all this kinda shit gives you a structure to your life thing to shoot for gives you like a you get up. These are the things that showed that you've made progress in our world of weird mogus social networks works and our lives leading a successful life is very you know it's challenging and it takes a lot of you have to learn how to cooperate with people have to learn all all the ships were there you just become a cognitive machine and then when you're kicked out of the structure someone like who every day you had things that do set things that you were supposed to accomplish and then all of a sudden. You just got to figure it out on your own. He never had those skills. He went from school to the army where he just fucking went went from one set of handlers roy another and then he's back out dane like all right. Good luck have fun. Do you want barbara webby scientists. I don't know it it's interesting though because now i mean it also seems as if he could be praised when he gets back for all of his work were looking over the diaries but i'm thinking there was a movie made about a sniper the american sniper every single kill registered and it was used as a point of pride <hes> well it was. I don't even know if it was a point of pride for howard owner like it was more it just it was more ninety or not even really an obsession key just liked. It was something that he enjoyed this. I did this. This is something like and he liked to relive it. 'cause it's kind of almost like a serial killer with a trophy. You know it's a way to relive. Those kills like to note the time time date place and the location of the body. That immediately takes you back to that moment right. You also got positive allegation for it. You got followed by every single time and kill the german. Everybody was super super happy and then it was a good thing where he was making people happy even though personally he could not connect yeah so when i got back from the war he wandered from job to job never last for more than a few months in any job i mean the closest he got to ambition was when he enrolled in pharmacy school at temple university but even that only lasted about three months before howard dropped off l. per quote unquote health reasons. I have this thing i <hes> the doctors diagnosed me with. I have dick fevered can't really make it to school. 'cause i am just yeah well. I need to get some of that. <hes> speaking of which i mean he did attempt to relationship with a woman from his bible study group up as a bible study groups have long been a dependable dating pool for closeted men women because it allows for appearances while giving a convenient excuse to avoid thus my church good news fellowship church still around in steven's point wisconsin. They put together they would marry large lesbians bushier lesbians with really really petite gay men and they thought that's what i swear to god talking with horror. There was a dude. Tim g love science so there was this rosie z. Marriage with this guy tim g and he married female truck driver who was like maude of redeeming herman and i have no idea what happened with that pure love nothing somebody fuck it in iraq and sex passionate kisses great trips at disney world so much merged bought a disney much between the two of them evangelical christians trying trying to figure out how to cure homosexuality is the single craziest thing that's ever happened. It's crazy and i hope both of those people got the fuck out of that prison. We decided the door away. Got not gay hat. Put it on there <hes> sooners yeah put it on your that game at ease. Well you know because of this. You know howard's relationship with his girlfriend. It never got past hand holding he even he would refuse to even kiss her on the cheek he let her on for two a years and finally told her that he was quote unquote skitso and he was never gonna marry her or anyone else. At least he was strangely honest strangely so after temple owner ended up back at his mother's house where he would live as an unemployed loser playing with model trains and collect stamps letting his anger fester for two years <music> and say loser because that's exactly what howard owner was this was. This was post world war two america. This was the healthiest economy this country ever had especially. If you were a veteran he could have gotten a job at anytime. I grandfather became the head of travel for pepsi like these things were at the time you left war war too and you came to america as a hero. This is when it actually would have benefited you and you weren't a pariah of society and you were destroyed. Some of them were destroyed destroyed by shell shock yeah but you know they learned to smile and if under pace in their hair and they learned to pump several loveless children into a wife they wrote letters enters too for several years look at that isn't that nice i mean so he played with model trains played with stamps. He stood he was angry. He's just neil young. Gotta have a hit hit record career. First ri- you can lose your life to model was the hit record but also you have to be such a dictator to be into model train. It is like with civilization five where you just are like decide if the trains go where they stop high side of the trains get to where they're going. I also also decide if i don't blow up this whole fucking tape foul. Yes your europe session with five is very michael machiavelli valium gotta get it out. You know you should try no man's sky. It's a space expiration game. Was that the one with all of this all the planets where you go to different places and you find resources. They updated a about a year ago. It's much better now. I love it. I played it all the time then killing. Oh no there's tons of killing the bruiser you just kill animals and plants lance. Oh you kill robots. Do i mean talking about howard owner after world. We're definitely not mitigating the p._t._s._d. That a lot of veterans go through. That's very real and does prevent people from living quote unquote normal. Absolutely this is back when it was called called shell shock and it only happened a tough guys because that's the thing i don't think howard owner had p._t._s._d. Despite what his family said howard owner was just an asshole asshole and he lived his life accordingly during the two years leading up to the massacre howard owners life. It's like a nerd version of taxi drivers. It it really is it is a brill cream version of just walking around new york city in texas because he lived a fucking loan ass life dressed up the same brown suit everyday. He had a series of ties. Some words favorite summer is not bota. He had these combat it combat boots that he'd wear twenty four seven and his thing was that he'd walk doc right upright super br like straight back shoulders back right like a like a soldier and the way they describe it as that he would march through through the neighborhood like march and shit like waiting for somebody to disrespect him right. They lived in a room like his room was just filled with war trophies. All this shit that smuggled back from world war two yet bayonets let cross on the walls. He had nazi luger's that he brought back he had ashtrays that were made from nazi shells. It's kinda crazy. How often they see boys brought back stuff over to a love that whole thing that they were talking about in the herald scheckter chapter where the the how i to create a panel of people saying okay we know you love your nazi landmines and your nazi guns back over to you kill those guys righteously sure yeah you can keep them but bring them to us so we can make sure that they're inoperable so the and then after howard indra there was seventy. It was a rush of seventy thousand people. That came came at a nowhere to show. Hey all right here. All these nazi landmines. I have right digits brought back. Pistols active landmines active grenades. It just put them in their bag and brought him home well. It's a different time p._s._a. Was a little bit more relaxed or non-existent. One could argue and howard wasn't in his room playing with trains answer cataloging stamps. He was in his mother's cramped low ceilinged basement target. Practicing <hes> howard was already deadly with a gun by the time he got back from the war four but down in the basement howard became truly skilled he would practice for hours using a luger semiautomatic pistol he bought from philadelphia the upon shop for thirty seven dollars and fifty cents. How was he practicing in his mom's basement was he. Shooting real bullets back in the day in his mother's basement mid yeah in a in the middle of residential and commercial neighborhood. This is back in the day. When people didn't complain yet he did did not care but think about this and i also love the always find fascinating when people actually physical is they're weird mental states where he had had his trophy room where his mom was forced to live with them like she. You know she was the super fucking supporting him but she was in. Her area becomes smaller smaller smaller in this one bedroom apartment. One half department came covered in nazi regalia right he would retreat to the basement his private world where he shoot you guns on there and you are you are your mommy. You're mrs. kissel. Your mother above you like her. Mom euro almost go down. Stirs or is it almond duma prac- zain all cape and she man went every year. Gotta do benji. Maybe you just throw in bud. Light cans are right. They're not sticky white. Oh they're not darts at some point. Though don't you just become a nazi we'll because he had nazi paraphernalia everywhere. He racked in his basement. There were trophies and he's about it was about him seeing the fruits of his labor right where they were trophies of of his kills trophies of murder. You know trophies yeah. I mean they it wasn't that he was into nazi. Ideology right just liked to look at them and think about bat nazi that he killed. I actually they. I agree with kissel a little bit. I think there is a time period. I think when you do start collecting these things yes they started trophies trophies of your your subjects right of the people that you killed because you brought them back right but i think especially with what then happened with howard era as that you do begin to sort of look up to the the fascist state of mind which is my way or the highway was catherine rams and talks about out which is the concept which i really agree with which is the concept of rigidity of personnel were. It's like legitimately viewer going to try to create the these people especially mass shooters cannot handle anybody trying to challenge their worldview in any way shape or form and that's why they come back into hysterical way yeah i i mean pretty much like out was with howard he was he had he was completely unable to accept frustration in any way whatsoever he had a very strict and specific set of rules that he thought the world should follow or at least rules people should follow when they were interacting with him and if anyone broke those rules are transgressed pressed against howard in any way whatsoever howard would make a mental note and later on that person would be added to a list this is not this is like steve buscemi and billy madison good. You wanna get more of your way done like if you're really frustrated people a good way said if anybody tells you you know even if the d._m._v. right you go like you. They're like <hes> sir. You're gonna have to come back and we need another form. The other like you know birth certificate and you just go. What's your name. Book the back of your pants last name interesting see you soon like you just you just write it down and then you cryptically walkout very scary. Howard didn't stop his diary keeping after he left the service instead of cataloging kills onerous onerous started keeping a tally of every instance in which he thought someone in his camden new jersey neighborhood had wronged him people who made howard in his word sore. If you do not want to be screamed at get out of camden new jersey span is in these simple wars place effort. I do not have any kind of ability to deal with someone criticizing his calling him hard every now and again. You're going to have a hard time. In the entire. Tri-state stayed areas the barber clark hoover had been doing some construction work in a vacant lot adjoining howard's home which it caused howard's precious basement to flood god so hoover made the list noises. He's staring looking at his wet bullet casing then you had the shoemaker john pillar chick who had a habit of using howard's backyard as a garbage dump. He's on the list also had dominique <unk> tele who owned a a local restaurant and referred to howard as a gun toting quote unquote gangster. This is not my gun. This is my pet. I'll tell you what your dirty italian. I killed so many of you and the other side. Oh you flip flop and spaghetti loving italian take. I won't put a hole in your rigatoni. I'm sorry go to sleep go to sleep by precious little pet name her girth. Oh from germany girth of the gun but what's wrong with being called the gangster her and he didn't like it because it was derogatory. Gangster was a derogatory term this time to see if you wanted to get calling somebody gangster or a pimp in the nineteen fifties was way to get punched in the face. There was even a teenager named coral soreg who had sold christmas trees vacant sore under howard's apartment and soreg <unk> had run an extension cord into howard basement trees he'd stolen trysofi. Oh i will say these grievances are you're adorable. Suburban gripes yeah well he. He's the problem is that you are george costanza until you are howard unruh. I understand it up to a point. I understand the frustrations building. You see each one spend like or you're taking my lumens. You're taking my photons. There was nobody in howard's neighborhood who pissed them off. As much as his neighbors. The cohen's maurice the patriarch owned and ran the local drugstore any lived next door to howard maurice it was him it was his wife was his young son and his mother and in this case it was definitely honora who was at fault see the owner liked to listen to the radio on high volume all night line client client what the way this is your neighbor there. The former c. and onerous family house were attached by the wall but house him more ching in his own gun range uh-huh jeeze obsesed. Did someone would give it would be like hey excuse me sir. Could you just keep it down just a little bit. It sounds like there's a military parade. It does sound like that and but we'll owner justified it because for christmas one year the coens got charles coined the youngest son they got adema bugle for christmas and i know i know but they let him play it and owner hated it so he said thought he was fully justified in his music as loud as you wanted whenever he wanted cohen's where the astles here obviously i have no idea suburban. Politics are endlessly amazing. Jersey has not change change and i will say there is nothing worse than a child learning to play an instrument sound on the face of the planet with the big sticking point between owner and cohen's was the most oh suburban thing of all their shared backyard the colons who gave them permission and his mother to use the back gate but howard he kept leaving the fucking door open which meant stray dogs. They're coming in their mustn't up. Garbage colin's got to clean it up. This is a fucking episode of everybody loves raina it offensively be kind of scared of he's coming home every night later and later he's huge. He's over six feet tall. He's a scary looking dude. Now that one point he's just nerdy but then he becomes scary got tony little beady eyes fucking huge ass eraserhead like head and and he just like you know he's leaving that fucking gate open on purpose you know now. It's become like every single time. This is war suburban war yeah and the gate problem became such a controversy that cohen's mother actually had a guy come out and build a second gate just for howard to us how much of a little bit you have to be at your own mother had called up and get another gate and you watch. I think our gate is smaller than the code. Well yeah well. Hey really the people in the neighborhood weren't noticing. That howard owner was going downhill. I mean for all all they thought that this guy is harmless. He wouldn't hurt a fly hi but onerous mother she was living with him. She was in that house with them every day and she noticed that he was going downhill and that's why she got the gay put in. She's trying she is she's a little dutch boy putting her fingers in the dike trying to keep the damn from bursting rush yeah i've seen that fucking video my friends in in <hes> in howard's little notebook next to every person's name on his little grudge list howard had britain notations like rhett w. t. s. and d._n._d. Are those stood for retaliate. When time is suitable and do do not delay retaliation is frightening to think about that the fact that he has this little the concept of retaliation allegation each one of these which shows that he i mean he has an antisocial personality easily now where he does believe that all of these things are pointed to attacks on his because he also believes that society did him wrong right that he is not a success as he should be. He came back from the war. He did his fucking job. As an american he served the country he came back and no one came and just left prizes at his feet where he didn't understand everybody else who super fucking industrious austrian yeah it was like jumping into work. He just was a listless dude. That was kind of expecting something else and then all of a sudden you just start your little list. I mean i have a less but it says like you know d._d._s. Which zab donuts toward service which i know that each time somebody it does something good for me right oh them one of the new crispy cream reese's peanut butter donuts interesting. I don't like the corporate mixing is in there is there is in the butter in the <hes> the peanut butter cups. I don't need it. I don't need now. I'll have a reasons if i wanna raises. Thank you but ironically enough. I think he would have done great in nazi germany as a nazi. I don't think so though because that's because the nazis were for people who've like rolls right it was all about his roles and everyone saw the nazis roles are not gonna vibe with his roles because all that matters is him but if he went on a shooting shooting spree in nazi germany technically hero technically yeah. It's very weird in a way that he's an interesting character but it wasn't just simple everyday neighborhood conflicts that bothered howard he also believes that everyone in the neighborhood knew he was gay and we're calling them names and he believed that the neighborhood neighborhoods psalm as a parasitic mama's boy and in reality mr cohen did derisively tell customers that howard allowed his mother's to support him and the local taylor thomas agree no was spreading rumors that he saw howard getting blown by dude back alley. You have no idea what i was doing that elliott. Who was my best friend roger he. He had a be stuck in his and i was trying to catch that be with my baby proof mouth. I've a straight shoot mad. Ah straight shooting man. I'm as straight as the letter q i love. The law. Lady seems like you had a hard time saying that he love a dead lady. I love. I love an alive man. Ooh that rumor probably wasn't true because howard actually went to great lengths to hide his sexuality multiple times every single week howard powered would drive to philadelphia for random hookups various spots around town and he put a lot of work into a living. This lifestyle was very difficult. The nineteen forties yeah and every single time the howard had a sexual encounter. He logged the sexual encounter right alongside his grudges and win. Those sexual logs were discovered the newspapers of the time time described them as quote social contacts with other men they were yet. They couldn't say that they were doing envelope party. We're trying to see like how many how how many tubes can fit in a sock. They were all those specific games right. He was doing a very very difficult for them. Say what do you what do you think about the lists. I like it does at some point. I think what it does is dehumanize the entire experience. I think that when he starts making these lists it's the same scorecard as the germans. It's actually the same shit where he is still viewing them as marks like just tallies not anything like a human connection. Yeah it's antisocial sociopathic psychopathic. It's seeing other people as ways to facilitate his own pleasures. You know that's just the little tally marks with every dude like they're just there to serve howard onerous sexual pleasures and those people these making the list for the the grudge like they're are there to serve howard's anger one of those tall dude stu so he probably. He's probably got a big one. You have a very strange idea of komen well howard our hugh hooked up so much. He actually kept a room in philadelphia. Lodging house for thirty bucks a month just for fucking dudes and he contracted the clap on one occasion he had fun. If you are like that like that's that's money put into the lifestyle now where it's almost like. It's really a shame but i'd like in jeffrey dahmer case you can't save the late and homophobia of the time was really to blame. It's also a part of it is the it's it's just strange. It helped him zinc one part of his compartmentalized personality into an area that was totally covered with shadows that nobody could have any sort of entrance to because just being him was illegal so on some level it kind of helps other things sink into the dark parts of your personality. Well very sad. He had to be underground around like that but then again there were a lot of gay fighters freedom fighters were very active and open difficult times but he could have also just gone gone up bent fighter for gay rights. He could've just gone what thirty minutes to new york city sure. I think they had some people in new york city gene by the feeder. Yeah i understand it was tough you know and it's you know the the persecution like he did have a persecution complex on but the persecution against gay people at the time was extremely real. It was a very very very real but he did not he used that as a way to fuel anger he used that as a way to justify his own and terrible and shitty behavior and it was after one of these hookups had failed the howard ultra finally snapped on september fifth nineteen forty nine mine owner had a date waiting at a cruising spot on market street in philadelphia called the family theater but howard got held up by traffic going into the phillies so by the time he showed up his date had already given up and left so howard sat through three showings of the double feature just sitting there seething seething that night the theater was playing. I cheated the law which is pretty much looks like a forgettable courtroom drama and the lady gambles starring barbara stanwick. Guess what it's about kissel guessing i she gambled. It's about a lady who gamble on blow on the dice. I'll i'll be the lucky charm for a lady who <music>. Hey go dull face. Go buy yourself a bud light. Live fifty dollar chip in your waistband. The movies don't really have anything to do with that. I mean he just sat there just staring off into the middle distance and he sat there through three showings those double features i mean he sat there from probably nine pm and then finally at two twenty a m after the whole thing was over and done with he left. He just sat through. These people just would have been kicked ages. It just kicked the can down the road a few more days. Magical blowy sometimes can turn your life around again. I mean it's just it's just like i was saying earlier like it's just using using people for whatever pleasures wants the matter at times yeah. It's just a matter of time so after <hes> the double feature is other over at about two twenty a._m. a._m. Howard got in his car and drove back to camden and when he arrived he found that the fence that his mother had commissioned for his use and his use only uh-huh was gone man. I'm getting mad for honestly though dude. That is a bold move. Was that cohen that i didn't know it was just a bunch of kids. This is anyone who has ever been annoyed by children can understand the rage that he must have felt now granted of course obviously took part way too far. I can be kicking up. Dust kick an entire my favorite stump we ever did. I think i've told the one where we just moved. Everyone's mailbox one house down was the greatest but i know it must have really angered some people bowl if there was one howard yeah in that fucking on that street and that was the final straw yes as we really need to think about what kind of pranks you're pulling and what kind of fun things are having with your weird little neighbors. I'm not blaming victims here but remember if he looks like he's got a spiderweb hi to web of veins that are slowly growing from around is is through the middle of his forehead and he seems to be getting more agitated. Maybe layoff lady bring him some ice cream. Do something fun for oh. We'll just be upset about butter. <hes> what do you think i am some kind of cure you. You know it's just butter. I i know what you're saying. Talk straight the even though it did it did turn out to be just a bunch of kids but howard decided that it had to have been the cohen saw <music> in this black henry said this was the last straw owner went inside laid in bed just stared up at the ceiling fantasizing about about how everyone on his list was finally gonna pay. He just had to decide how he was going to do it. One option howard had on the table was mass decapitation capitalization months before howard ordered a machete from l.l bean. L.l bean the change the net company because now you've just get double beds. He gets them duck boots from them. They're kind of nice but i really want them to bring them machete back and howard you spent nights just sharpening sharpening the blade until it was razor sharp and just sit there and fantasize about cutting off the heads of each and every member of specifically the coen family how oh honey are you done. Sharpening your machete. Do you want to have some split beef. I made split the family camry whole lot of mom. I'm almost done. This machete can almost split a fly in half. Oh howard i knew you work where you were to go near a good boy very scary very scary but eventually decided that the machete just wasn't efficient and instead instead decided that the best way to get everyone was to use his semiautomatic luger pistol may deadlier by years of target practice okay so howard loaded two clips and dozed off for a coupla hours until the shops. We're once again opened the next morning. 'cause howard knew that would maximize the body count now. I was in school the cool thing where those jelly slap hands you know. You're cool if you're slapping around school and you weren't if you didn't and now it's bomba socks bring out all envy in the school yard. Which really isn't all that surprising. They're the most comfortable kid socks ever. They're colorful colorful literally bursting with color. They even have a little colorful be on them and they're comfortable. They are so comfortable they're designed with several comfort innovations innovations that helped make them feel better than any other kids suck ever made so senior kids back to school with the socks that keep them comfy colorful and ready to take on the school year and since bus thus donates a pair of socks for every pair purchase. You should get yourself some do actually it's not just for kids. I actually got some free bomba's. They're extremely comfortable trouble. I've got some tube socks. Go up my calf. Keep those warm and i got some ankle socks that i wear wear my short. Some welcome mud dog around brooklyn. I love damn things now. Visit bomb dot com slash last pot and get twenty percent off your first purchase. That's b. o. M. b. the a._s. Dot com slash last pod for twenty percent off your first purchase bomb dot com slash last pod. I know we we got a lot of detectives listening to us so here's something to investigate. What if there was an easy way to straighten your teeth without paying a fortune. What if you could get the smile you've always wanted without worrying about wires brackets or office visits. Now you can smile direct club helps you straighten your smile without putting your teeth behind the bars for a fraction of the cost of traditional braces. There's nothing mysterious about it. Smile direct club makes it easier than ever to get a smile. You'll love love visit smile. Direct club dot com to book a free visit and three d. image one of their smile shops or have an impression kit mail to you. They'll email you a preview for your new smile. Once you get your liners one of the smile direct clubs duly licensed dentist orthodontist will check in on your progress every ninety days. The evidence speaks for itself. Smile direct club helped more than half a million people get the smiles they deserve. Join the club today and straighten in your smile in as little as six months get started without leaving the comfort of your home find out. If you're a candidate by taking a free thirty seconds smile assessment on their website website as one of our listeners you'll get a free at home impression kit with rebate and one hundred dollars off your liners just go to h. T. t. p. colon colon slash slash smile direct dot com slash podcast and use offer code last pod. Don't wait any longer to get the smile. You deserve zurve us this exclusive offer to get one hundred dollars off at h. T. t. p. colon slash slash. Smile direct dot com slash podcast last with code last pod. That's h. T. t. p. colon slash slash. Smile direct club dot com slash podcast offer code last pod as far as mass shootings in america. Go howard unruh was not the first not even a year before <music> owners walk of death. A man named melvin collins had shot and killed eight people from the second story window of a boarding house but there are two reasons. Why nobody knows is the name melvin collins. The first was that melbourne's murders got no attention even at the time because melvin and his victims were all black and the news media just didn't give a fuck. I mean even today when you google the name melvin collins. The mass murderer is actually the fifth result and even then it's just a short entry on murder murder pedia reposting a three hundred word piece the barely qualifies as an article from the november nineteen forty eight issue of time magazine but the second reason why melvin isn't known is is because besides just race melvin background was totally different from howard's see melvin had a demonstrably violent criminal record which included two stretches in prison for for gun related crimes and an attempted murder charge after melvin tried to stab his own brother to death. We'll say these guys are definitely doing a good job of reforming in the nerdy names howard and melman mastery lee scary extremely scary names. I'm deeply scared of a melvin. If you're bored because the the the deck is stacked against you in this life especially in two thousand nineteen and if you are a melting yeah well in other words while it was shocking and tragic melvin collins could be written off as a simple criminal whether that's fair or not but howard owner had no record of violence he served with distinction in the war and he was known in the neighborhood as prickly but harmless harmless. You couldn't ignore him deeply scared of a melvin if you're bored because the the deck is stacked against you in this life especially in two thousand nineteen and if you are are a mountain yeah well in other words while it was shocking and tragic melvin collins could be written off as a simple criminal whether that's fair or not but howard owner had no record of violence he served with distinction in the war and he was known in the neighborhood as prickly but harmless. You couldn't ignore the story of howard owner because howard our owner was something totally new. He was the first example of the so called lone wolf who suddenly snapped and murdered a bunch of people for no reason whatsoever no reason it doesn't seem like there's that much of a reason my gate to gate howard did not say you were gay. Just it's just a gate gate. I'll show you not gay and i'm gonna blow you so hard that your own father aww come in his pants today we call. What howard owner did we call it mass murder but back then nineteen forty nine some some people actually tried to coin the term super murder. Oh my by attaching it to horror movies fast cars atom bombs and of all things fucking superman there is a way to extrapolate this entire theory which is sort of hint at it because they were saying that the the the atomic bombs and all of the atomic age was going to make new super villains and that sort of like the movie unbreakable that basically people would show up and create great mass violence in order to see if superman will appear to stop them no because he likes mr glass. It's also tied ride into a pop culture thing blaming pop culture. It always zyklon as they've been doing it. Since nineteen fifty-three frederick worthen the seduction of the innocent the you went up and up in front of fucking congress to talk about how tales from the crypt was turning the nation's. Youth knew a bunch of juvenile delinquents that were going to murder us all in our sleep. They've been trying to blame pop culture for violence since the fucking fifties and it's fucking dumb because there was no more inspired to kill by the mummy's curse than eric harrison harrison dylan klebold or inspired by doom and marilyn manson right absolutely in these do that that was the most infuriating thing about the coverage of el paso and <hes> and dan and the video game conversation. You drove me in saying game. Yeah please go there. He's a terrorist and is that's. We're saying right here. Owner generous not a terrorist which is also the different to this is the type of example of crime that we're showing that's also uniquely american are now our version of domestic. Terrorism is is actually plentiful throughout the entire world that we are just experiencing it all the time now yeah i was a little firecracker that just fucking turn out to be an atomic bomb in the middle of new jersey. I think we could probably retrofit the term domestic terrorist and place it over though i don't think we could but realize that's the thing went went. He had no point whatsoever. He wasn't trying to make a point. He had no political ideology behind him. He it was all just defense. He just put it wasn't just the fence missile defense represented it was that he's a veteran that was disrespected and he was straight now about how much sex limits or movie theaters. I mean the guy el paso he is a terrorist. He has domestic terrorist but he's using violence to try to scare people into believing his political ideology o'hara own wa was just trying to make the people who broke his precious little rules pay. That's all he wanted to do. I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind. He had no political ideology behind what he was doing. He was just an asshole and make people pay is exactly what he did. On september six nineteen forty-nine that morning morning woke up at eight a._m. And walk down to breakfast of fried eggs and milk his mother had prepared. I love a good old-fashioned number. Two <hes> that i it makes me immediately duke liquid diarrhea yeah. That's exactly what it sounds like. After breakfast owner went down to the basement and fetched a wrench wrench that he'd cut near the stairs just in case the soreg kit ever came back owner then walked back to the kitchen and brandished the wrench towards his mother other because his original plan was to kill his mother i to save her. The shame of having a son who is capable of doing what howard was about to do howard found. He couldn't do it instead. He just hung the wrench over his mother's head as she asked him. What do you wanna do that for howard over and over and over again you mentioned your huge sun and coming in the room. He just lifted the wrench over his head and stared at her. We like what do you want to do that for. How what do you want to do that and he's just rambling in staring and trembling staring and then he's like. I guess i'm just gonna leave. I'm just gonna go exit. Stage raincoat <music> fucking scurried out of the house staring with fucking wrench extended in his hands poor woman or woman she ran to a neighbor's house like she had no idea media what the fuck to do after his mother left howard collected his weapons taking his luger two clips sixteen shells extra a six inch knife life and tear-gas penn howard walked out the backyard of his apartment dressed in a brown suit white shirt and a striped bow tie. The first person howard came upon was a bread deliveryman howard had never seen nor met but regardless howard raises gun and fired. Luckily for the driver over though howard missed that for shot since the driver wasn't on the list howard deemed unimportant and moved to a small group of shops where the real objects of his rage rage all lived and worked. It was literally all within one block. All of this happens within one section. The first victim was jon pillar chick. The shoemaker schumaker howard open the door to pillar chick store raised his pistol and shot pillar chick in the stomach without a word of explanation before killing the shoemaker with a shot to the head. She's after the shoe store. Owner walked to clark hoover's barbershop. There clark was cutting the hair of a six year old boy who who was attending his first day of the first grade the very next day and for the first time that day onerous spoke tone clark that he had something for him. When clark saw the gun he tried shielding the boy but he wasn't fast enough onerous. I shot in the barbershop hit the boy directly in the head killing him instantly instantly then opened fire on the barber shooting him in the chest and the head with the barber and the shoemaker taken care of boonrod started making his way towards his ultimate target the cohen's drugstore before he could enter an insurance agent named james hutton blocked his path who he actually had a who he actually had had a u._s. His client in the body just bought an insurance claim from him. Yeah and hutton had no idea what was going on. He just said hello howard responded with with a curt excuse me but at that moment hot and saw the gun and howard's hand and he froze and when hutton froze lost his patience because someone <unk> had broken a rule so raised the gun and shot hut and twice again in the torso and the head killing him as well and maurice cohen watching for behind the counter honor saw the whole damn thing unfold in the doorway of his store so cohen ran up the stairs to warn his family on the second floor but howard calmly follow behind dropping an empty clip and reloading another by the time howard got to the top of the stairs rose cohen was hiding in one closet while their son hid in another maurice east cohen had opened a window and was trying to hide on the roof but in trying to save his family maurice had chosen the most obvious hiding spot owner could clearly see him through the window so aimed in shock cone in the back by the time cohen hit the pavement he was dead owner then heard ros- cohen from the closet so he fired three shots through the door then opened it and shot rose once more in the head then hearing someone in the next room howard walked in to find cohen's mother many trying to call the police before so she can get through the o. onnor shot in the face killing her as well only the cohen son charles would survive because after the murder of many owner lost lost interest in the cohen home and walked back outside to make his way to thomas za green the taylor but while howard was crossing the street a tv repairman driving by ride named alvin day slowdown when he noticed james hutton's body on the sidewalk taken the opportunity owner calmly shot alvin day in the head killing him as well and it at this point that the neighborhood finally noticed that something truly terrible was happening at that point it they just thought it was a car backfiring maybe some firecrackers something like that so frank engel and his bartender poke their heads out of their saloon which attracted a wild hell of bullets from owner but owner missed every single shot but after engelen his bartender took refuge back inside owner looked up to the second story window of the apartment next to the bar and saw a two year old boy looking out attracted by the noise choice and again with no emotion owner fired and killed the toddler and when i finally got to the tailor shop thomas agree no wasn't there instead it was his new wife helga twenty eight years old owner ended her life with two more shots as people outside tried taking cover and a lot of those took refuge a hornets grocery store and after killing the taylor's wife owner decided that url horner was next even though horner had never made was list earl horner was always very nice to anura but then if he had a new grocer clark that actually was super rude to one time so the clerk was on the list but not the owner of the grocery store. Luckily horner thought to lock up the shop and three shots from owners lugar weren't enough to bust through the door and when owner didn't immediately make it through his natural frustration just kept moving owner turned his attention back to the street where a car was stopped at a red light inside was helen wilson her mother emma and her nine year old son john ron howard killed all three of them with one shot each then bereft of businesses and pedestrians to terrorize onerous wandered into the home of madeleine harry who is sitting in her kitchen with her two teenage sons armand and leroy now overcome by adrenaline owner fired three shots but only hit madeline and the arm an armand tried rushing howard but instinct kicked in and howard took the boy down with a quick knock to the head with his pistol then as if to punish the boy for his insolence howard george shot him once in each arm howard then aimed the gun directly armand's chest and pulled the trigger but by some stroke of fate the hammer fell on an empty chamber this is how scary is this shit house curious. You're sitting on your sitting at dinner with your family and the door opens and nerd frankenstein standing there with the hello did gone and he is just because also at this point. He's now unhinged and they were before now. He's unhinged which is fucked up to say before he was moving like fucking not one thousand just like emotionlessly walking just an unending. He didn't stop now. Poop poop poop important and then all of a sudden he just walks in your house now very scary but at that point howard owner was out of bullets gone through both of his clips and he'd gone through all the fucking amunition that he brought with him so he went back outside but at that moment he felt a sharp stinging pain in his buttocks it was he he also the way he said it was just like forrest gump. I said something just jumped up and bit me. You got shot right now but turned <unk> out frank angle the saloon keeper grabbed his thirty eight special and had fired on onerous from his second story window but that was the only shot that angle fired. He later said he could end it all right there but he didn't. He said he just couldn't pull the trigger anymore and he had no idea why most likely because angle like the vast majority the people he wasn't a killer right. Oh doesn't matter who the fuck it is in front. Most people just aren't killers in to his credit usually if you shoot some of the but that person's stops when he got shutting them because shutting the button he just turned around and looked at him and i it's it's difficult but i completely league agree with it. I think that's what people don't understand the concept of good guy with a gun beating a bad guy with a gun is i don't think most people it's very difficult for them to shoot somebody even if they have a gun owner also in putting other people's lives in danger absolutely taking somebody's life changes everything you know about yourself yeah if you have of human empathy. It's it's difficult. You have to get over it the serve in the armed services. That's why it's such difficult job. I mean it's hard for most people to just punch someone in the face a much less point a gun at them in in their life right there. It doesn't matter who the fuck it is doesn't matter how big of an asshole they are or what they've done. Most is people just don't have it in them and that's a good thing or a great thing. I mean it's an evolutionary thing but it's a good thing we have that we have that failsafe most people do so wounded and out of bullets just thirteen minutes after the walk of death began this whole thing took thirteen minutes howard owner went home before the cops had even even show up and admittedly thirteen minutes does seem like a long time for the cops to arrive in this type of situation but you gotta remember. This was nineteen forty-nine right. It isn't like it is today. We've got five or six mass shootings every single week. This type of thing just didn't happen so there was no police protocol for the situation in any way they way. They talk about it. Was that the the d._a. Got as much to me like you know that there's like maniac on the fucking loose in that thing happened like it was. It's kind of subtle because it happen so fucking fast. It happened so fast that no one really even got a chance to even think about what was happening. Everybody was fighter flight until finally like someone call the cops but when it was like by the time it got to the d._a. He was already arrested. Yeah i mean compared to <hes> today like to just two compared to say like dayton this howard owner of that was thirteen minutes thirteen dead <hes> and you know about fifteen minutes until the cops show up <hes> dayton dayton one minute nine dead yes and about one minute for the cops to show off because he's a pussy with an assault rifle this dude who is a guy who fucking actually i mean unfor- unfortunately he did this bullet by bullet. He was trained by the u._s. Army to do what he did highly trained and he trained himself to do this as well right so by the time howard gotten back to his home and barricaded himself in his room. Damn near every cop and camden had surrounded his house. I read two different accounts of what he did. One i heard that he definitely barricaded but then another one i heard which actually also sounds eerily real is that he just crawled in bed that he went in he went into his room and he pulled the covers up to his chen and just lay there and tried to go to sleep and of course henry when you said that you're also trained for this. He trained by playing video games right the u._k. <hes> four he was playing to like that's what did it obviously all of this forty nine virtual yeah so of course so i mean no matter what howard did when he came home you know the cops fifty cops showed up you know and they gave them a chance to surrender but howard decided to be cute and fire a couple of shots out the window and then response fifty officers armed with shotguns pistols and submachine guns opened fire and you can still go like this the building where howard own relived it still stands to this day and you can go and see bullet holes in the stucco now. It's the front. The bottom businesses gomez shoes. Oh good the apartment where howard owner lived still back into this day. No one after owner left no one ever moved andrews ever again. I read story but the guys that run gomez shoes in the ass like why no one lives up there and the boy the son of the owner i remember him for some reason around the sentence he he just went fonterra's which means go so hence the reason why they don't live there because it's fucking haunted to shit oh my gosh jesus christ but after the bullets having none of those bullets actually hit howard <hes> and after the shots died down howard telephone rang c word got around pretty damn fast. The name of the killer was howard owner so the assistant editor at the camden evening currier philip buxton just looked up howard's name in the phone book and gave him a call to fuck by. Not let's test. Why not i suppose <hes> oh and here's the how that call went according to buxton hello. Is this howard. Yes this is howard. What's the last name of the party you want. <hes> who are you in. What do you want. I'm a friend and i want to know what they're doing you well. They haven't done anything to me yet but i'm doing plenty to them. I mean if you killed. I don't know yet have encountered them but it looks like a pretty good score. Why are you killing people. I don't know i can't answer that yet. I'm too busy. I'll have to talk delaitre. A couple of friends coming to gummy that howard hung up the phone geez all right so he's very casual very cold. Yeah i'm too busy to he was very was when you're getting shot. At by fifty police i would chalk that up to being like preoccupied ccupied with something to do moments later and officers standing on the roof where mr cohen had been shot tossed a tear gas canister through the window but it didn't go off the second yeah no did and unlike most of the killers that came after him howard owner decided to give himself up rather than commit suicide by gun or by cop and he came out with his hands hands raised above his head just cut to just cut to rabin like thank you for the tear gas. It's the first time i've ever cried. I actually actually i wonder why he didn't commit suicide. The this is the most common way these crimes and <hes> it's very he he didn't have a plan. He obviously had no clue that life life would continue going after he enacted his revenge <hes> and as one of the officers led howard to a squad car he asked howard if he was a psycho and somehow howard took this as a huge affront and replied oh no he replied quote. I'm not a psycho. I've got got a good mind that your answer that like you're a psycho a gay night and not even say you were suck your dick though to show you how long how much l. gag on it i'll gag on it and gag on it until you come in my throat. I'm not gay. Are you gay whole <hes> <hes> get my notebook so after his arrest howard was immediately taken to a camden detectives office and interrogated and howard confessed is to everything retold the whole story in a calm collected unemotional tone and they could not handle that couldn't could not handle it he the way he he rattled it out. It was sixty six pages of talking where he just monologues every single action and every single step etelka. He talked about every single time he reloaded he talked about amy talked about all the shit run and they just stared at him because they've never dealt with anybody. That's just like the way k. did in his cry and his trial the way he just bip bip bip bip through each one of his crimes for categorically and you know some of the cops are trying to rationalize this by being like where's the marijuana cigarette. I know that you must've that's not been high on marijuana cigarettes where hanging out with jazz cats jazz doggone it must be the only after howard was dumb with the story that someone noticed i noticed that howard had been bleeding from his buttocks wound the entire time he got he got shot in the ass and he had shown the least bit of discomfort or care where it was around this time that people started calling howard crazy one opinion joined another and within twenty four hours of his arrest howard owner was transferred to the room building heading for the criminally insane at trenton psychiatric hospital the day howard owner was arrested that was the only day he ever spent in jail cell wile after being examined by team of psychiatrist for weeks owner was diagnosed with quote dementia. Pray cox mixed type with pronounced catatonic catatonic paranoid coloring and that is also called. He's a white guy. How do we i mean prison for. He's kind of a jerk mark. It becomes a near or second time. We'll let him go in other words. They diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic because they'd already decided he was crazy and they needed to make it sound good owner had no not a single symptom of paranoid schizophrenia. He had no commanding thoughts commanding voices or anything like that he did it because he fucking wanted to yeah he he was fucking asshole and he was declared to mentally ill to stand trial now. It could be said that owners statements during those examinations were colored heard by the psychiatrist use of sodium pentothal aka truth serum. This drug was used in conjunction with a psychiatric technique known as narco synthesis assists which was originally used to treat p._t._s._d. But was used on to quote unquote recover memories. They were trying to see why he done this like there must be something in his past. Something must have happened to him that one little seed that made him do all this shit. He just kept on repeating the fence fence. Offense offense has been stolen. This is a gate issue during one of these sessions that were told the doctor that he'd been to bed with his mother that he'd fondled his mother's breasts quote. The privates touched you. When you're sleeping with mommy every day or eight and she and you uh-huh you know i. I don't know man i know. He fondled her breasts. If assure a provia did though probably probably probably had a dream that he fondled his mother's breasts but also think he was just that in the closet where he's like nah. Tell them i thought my mom. My mother is what i certainly don't suck dick but if you show a picture of my mother's asshole the first thing i'm gonna do is come my ruining today. Am i making thinking everybody said everybody's frowning. Oh my god today <hes> would've without a doubt been found sane and under current new jersey law owner would have spent the rest of his life in prison but back then all of this was so bizarre so out of the ordinary that it was decided that had to be mentally ill partly because people couldn't understand it and partly because i mean really just like today the thought of a sane person doing something like this scared the fuck out of people and it scared us so howard's father was ordered to pay fifteen dollars a month for expenses and wild away the next sixty years at trenton psychiatric where he busied zied himself with stamp collecting and mopping the floors with a steady mutter. If only i can't wait to live my life just just sweeping and modern day. That's my retirement plan so he only he basically did everything he would have done. If he was not in a in a psychiatric ward minus the model trains yeah and his dad who's paying rent eventually was transferred to the geriatric unit of the hospital the ray kroc center and it was there that howard owner died on october nineteenth two thousand nine at the age of eighty eight howard owner died ten years ago. Oh my god that's yet is and he looks crazy to as he got older. He got fucking silver. Lurch alright silver lurch toss up too a stupid question but we run. We run a show. That's about the mayor ed keon or or howard who light the psychiatric ward better ed geene. Lena epstein really was at home and they psychiatric ward owner was trying to get out so many many years so he didn't need structure of it. No it's not even about the structure is that at at some point he became so convinced still that what he did was not a crime and that what he did that he kind of was passed it. It seemed to be his his prevailing attitude was. I don't understand why everybody's still like wrapped up in this shit just like let's go. Let's get past. This one day is yesterday. Today is president. Which is why. It's a gift like trying to spin it that way. He was literally just like cigars. I'm over it. Have we thought about you being thought about you. Get no the other thing was is that someone reminded howard owner that like hey the moment you get declared sane. You're going on trial for murdering. All all these people rise anyone right back to media like oh really. I ran sweeping them up <music>. Now at the time howard onerous kill count of thirteen was above and beyond the largest mass murder committed with a firearm by a single person in united states history now though camden massacre barely makes the top twenty las vegas pulse virginia tech sandyhook sutherland springs luby's since zero el paso parkland on the university of texas san bernardino the post office fort hood binghamton and columbine all surpassed howard in rye and as a small kota of horror for in cruelty in the universe charles cohen maurice cohen son eventually had a granddaughter named karleena vel karleena vel had to live through the shooting at marjory stoneman douglas high school in parkland florida seventy years after her grandfather survived camden. That's so sad can chill up my spine and so we we he kinda hoped was that looking back at one of the first examples of something like this that may be that there's something in the center of this which can help plus learn in the future and the answer is. I don't know i do drawing that chorus of. I don't know now and i hope we have listener that smarter than us from body. Tell us how to fix that is the story of howard moon rows and i mean honestly this is just about you. Gotta watch out for each other and you're the best thing you can do you. Do you know what is true because we were talking about this shit head from el paso natalie and i part of it. It's about how do you how do you reach out to these little pieces of shit. How do you make sure that they have some sort of clear d- channel of communication when the neck is rape list was found early on in his life where they had an opportunity to essentially like they should have through women women and mental hospital fucking immediate like they're. They're no beds anymore for people like this. They have no way to figure out how to challenge these really really intense problems that some of some of our youth have because like these these dudes are just loss on the internet. It's very difficult and obviously now. We talk about this able to stop at at some solutions red flag laws for example. This would be a prime candidate for his neighbors to just be like howard shoots in the basement at night yeah. He doesn't seem staple. Both he's extremely irrational. Maybe we should just go see if he has a lot of loaded guns and maybe he doesn't need those well. The coens actually the night before the this is a horrible herbal thing but the night before the massacre like it was the thought of someone doing like something like this is so out of their purview so out of their content <hes> they joked the night before it's honestly jokin i before like he's probably gonna kill someday what happened. We've seen so far. We haven't seen something something that will most likely occur which is going to be drone mass shooting yeah that will happen. It'll be done by a dude in his basement and we won't even know where it is for a long time and they're gonna. I mean now. We're we're just at this crux where we are now so paralyzed with the fear of this scenario that nobody is trying to figure out. There's there's nobody who's got the balls to really stand up and like do a clampdown. I do appreciate our sense of freedom in america and i know why they don't want like i vaguely understand that concept of not wanting these gun law. I don't know i mean i'm obviously out of my depth politically trying to discuss these these fucking issues but there's got to be something done and part of it is that the how do you divide the line between nanny state and like sometimes the government can really help you fucking scooping open you up and put you in a room for a little bit and it can like honestly like maybe you need to be arrested for a little bit so that someone could come and listen to your thoughts and then uh-huh find out a way that prisoners can actually be rehabilitated. These people are like searching for solutions for problems. I imagine also really be helpful if they can't get their hands on assault rifles at these little fucking tourists with no fucking training even have training. They're learning how to use these guns from the fucking internet yeah of course and of of course those video games but no it really is about community activism community boards know your community yuccas reach it is because i i think as we've talked about before in my personal opinion in my lifetime. I don't think we're going to see much gun movement obviously right now we have less laws than ever. Semi assault rifle ban was allowed to expire after after columbine. I think we had a chance in this country. We did and then once gore lost. I think pork particle admire after fucking one sandy any hook happened and we allowed all of these kids who get murdered and then we didn't make any sort of change towards i mean this is obviously we're heading to very heavy workers here. Yes <hes> and i am damned personally out of my depth when it comes to talk about gun laws but you know maybe something can be done anyway that that's a conversation that we we continue to have the top outside stories. We address it but this was just absolutely fascinating to hear a story that is so timeless in american history. It's very it's the tail is old as american history and that was really informative yeah the only difference between now and then is that now that story would happen in an amazon warehouse because because there's no longer a shoemaker a barber and a taylor and if you really if they're really good at it they can get on the cover of the rolling stone all right everyone one that is howard unra the first mass shooter in american history. I suppose the second after marriage but widely known the lone wolf all right well now. It's time to tell you we're we're going to beat this weekend as completely vulnerable to standing up there air with no body armor on check us out already in midwest right now in love it love and our people of love and loving. Haven't we love you. You gotta buy them tickets to atlantic city. You gotta biden tickets to bethlehem pennsylvania yeah and you got to buy them. Tickets gets to port chester which i've heard again is the most beautiful city and then northeast really august sixteenth atlantic city august the seventeenth bethlehem pennsylvania august eighteenth port chester new york just come on out for onside stories that are dr gallager to to see more chester bethlehem. I can't but seriously come on. We cannot wait to see you. Come on ah those areas and then of course you're doing dumb bristle edinburgh manchester birmingham birmingham london bergman london stockholm and berlin <hes> in september eighteenth last boxing left dot com. There are links to every single ticket that you want to buy. Yes absolutely absolutely and august eleventh. I'm doing premier at in milwaukee. It's a smaller theatre there by the pabst theater of hail yourself america so if you haven't got tickets tickets to that make it a full all last podcast weekend and we'll go have some bursts afterwards and eat some meats and cheeses and have a good milwaukee time yeah man fuel that gout hi this is golden age henry doubt gal yet all right. Everyone thank you so much for listening. Hail yourselves tables satan mugusa they homes. This show is made possible. Oh by listeners like you think store ad sponsors you can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listen to go to last podcast network dot com.

howard howard america new york howard unruh camden murder mrs. kissel philadelphia howard indra howard o'hara mr cohen golf henry zabriskie iraq charles whitman barbara stanwick howard maurice