20 Episode results for "Kirk Johnson"

PRINCE: When Doves Cry

Death by Misadventure: True Paranormal Mystery

42:53 min | 2 years ago

PRINCE: When Doves Cry

"Our episodes do of serious and often distressing incidents. I may not be suitable for children. If you struggle with addiction, Phil depressed or suicidal thoughts, and you need support. Please contact your local crisis center or each out to a friend to ask how. On the ninth of April before teens principle forms to concerts, are the FOX theatre in Atlanta, Georgia just one week after postponing thirtieth scheduled shows due to a mysterious illness. Onstage that evening. His purple pianist based in light behind. It was a beautiful piece of artwork of prince with a third eye symbolizing his state of enlightenment and spiritual wisdom during the song controversy prince recited the Lord's prayer until the audience how much he loved God at the end of the show for his final encore. You would give an electrifying performance of purple rain one last time seven days later prince's lifeless body would be discovered and elevator at his pays Deepak state by his friend Cup Johnson. Join us on a supernatural journey as we tool that legendary musical history and life of prince explore his spiritual evolution and investigate his untimely backstage exit to the afterlife base his death. But misadventure. L Nelson and Mattie dillashaw met in nineteen fifty-six to show in Minneapolis. They were both jazz musicians. Our singer and him keyboardist MARCY would like to become a singer Nelson's bond. The prince Rogers tria the chief in love got married in nineteen fifty seven. Just one year later the young Uni weds welcomed prince Rogers Nelson on June, seventh nineteen fifty eight at Mount Sinai hospital in Minneapolis. Prince Ital sister taika was born may eighteenth two years later prince was a fragile child and suffered from epilepsy. Seizures but one day. Whoa. Talk to his mother and told her he would be sick anymore. When she asked him how he knew he replied because an angel told me so. Having musicians for parents men that prince and Tyco always immersed in music, but Princess home. Life was volatile and his parents conversations, but deteriorate into daily shouting matches to heal the trauma and pain from his dysfunctional environment. He would use music and dance is a safe haven from all the trauma. Prince told himself to play the piano by letting TV themes he owned his is studying the choir and his church and listening to the local radio in Minneapolis. His hometown was special because it's haven't even mix of soul funk and pot on its Airways. Pretty started writing music when he was about seven years old funk machine was his first Choon a not to his hair James Brown and sliced own at school. It was usually found in the music room which heading on guitar, however, Prentice home soon splinter when he was only eight years old when his parents divorce Massey remarried quickly to Heywood. Baker with imprint at a rocky relationship. Fortunately, his new stepfather did support is creativity and took prince to see James Brown when he was ten the hardest working manage show business left. A profound impression on him because of his soulful talent and super tight control on his back. Still prince missed his father, and we'll see move back in with him. But was kicked out again, the age of twelve when his that caught him at home in bed with the girl prince have no steady placed live after leaving his dad's. He was constantly moving journeys childhood changing addresses thirty times and bouncing between his parents and other relatives homes. Soon thereafter, fate stepped in to lend a hand when prince met Andre Simone in seventh grade, the cheap became fast, friends, and shed a passion for music later. The two young boys was apprised. If I now that prince's father John played in a band with Andre's father growing up. After running away from his mother's home prince moved in with Andrey's family, so they play music together. Full-time Andrea had five siblings. So space was tight. But prince was able to find his own space in the basement. It was his way could write songs and celebrate his sexuality, but basement would also become the rehearsal space for his band Graham, central consisted them. Andre Anderson Simone child Smith on Terry Jackson. The band played cover songs and originals. They did everything from earth wind and fire to war and Mandrell Jimi Hendrix, Billy Preston, you name it the band evolved and prince quickly gained ability to play all the tracks slowly becoming a one man production machine. He was ready to become a superstar. Princess first album for you was recorded at the plant and sausalito and released in nineteen seventy eight prince wrote arranged in played all the instruments on the record except for one song for his second album. Prince put together a new band and hit the road in nineteen seventy nine his musical lineup was funky and overtly sexy and included bandmates Andrea Simone on bass, Gayle Chapman. And Dr funk on keys Dez Dickerson playing guitar and Bobby G on the drums Warner Brothers was initially concerned whether or not the record would be a hit, but in October nineteen seventy nine they released the album prince and it shot to number twenty two on the billboard two hundred. And was soon certified platinum it also contained two are in B hits. Why you wanna treat me so bad, and I wanna be your lover which sold over a million copies and reached number. Eleven on the billboard hot one hundred and number one for two weeks on the hot soul singles chart in nineteen Eighty-one prince formed a side project called the time the ban released four albums between nineteen eighty one and nineteen ninety with prince writing and performing most of the instrumentation and backing vocals with lead vocals by Morris day. In late nineteen eighty two prince released a double album nineteen ninety nine which sold over three million copies. The title party jam track. Nineteen ninety nine was written to bring attention to the Cold War. And tap into how humanity might be feeling at the moment. He wrote the famous hook. They say two thousand zero zero party over ups at a time. So tonight, I'm going to party like it's nineteen ninety nine in a rare interview in nineteen ninety nine prince spoke with Larry King on CNN and explained the meaning behind the popular song. He said he was sitting with his bandmates watching a special on nineteen ninety nine and they were speculating on what the future held. He founded ironic how everyone around him who he thought was Optimus, dick. We're actually concerned about the political climate. They were living in he went on to state. He knew there was going to be rough times for the earth. And he just wanted to write a song that gave. People hope in a more positive outlook on life. In the early nineteen eighties prince asked his manager Bob Volvo to score a deal for him to star in a major motion picture this resulted in the hit film, purple rain, which starred Princeton's former flame Appalachia Qatar the movie was loosely based on prince's life. An included a number one soundtrack that went on to sell thirteen million copies in the US. The film purple rain won Princeton Oscar for best original song. Help also sponsored several number one hit songs, including when doves cry. And let's go crazy. But not everyone was a fan of prince's music. In fact, after Vice President Al Gore's wife Tipper hurt her eleven year old daughter Karenna listening to prince's song, darling. Nikki which gained wide notoriety for its sexual lyrics and a reference to masturbation, she founded the parents music resource center. The center advocated, the mandatory use of a warning label parental advisory explicit lyrics on the covers of records that have been judged to contain language or lyrical content unsuitable for minors the recording industry later voluntarily complied with this request, which of course, made prince's music even more desirable to listen to. The nineteen eighty six his album parade hit number three on the billboard charts and included the number one song kiss they album served as the soundtrack to his second film under the cherry moon. But the film flopped. He soon joined forces with drummer Sheila e and the sign of the times album was released on March of nineteen eighty-seven record included his duet with Sheena Easton. You've got the look once again prince released film along with the Elbe, and although the reviews were better than under the cherry moon. It was not financially successful. By nineteen Ninety-one Sheila e had left the band and prince had debuted a new band, the new power generation and in nineteen Ninety-two released. His twelfth of them at Baird only and unpronounceable on the cover later copyrighted as love symbol, number two. As title prince feeling confined by his label deal had decided to change his name to a glyphosate it defied phonetics and wonder brothers. He wanted the love symbol to fuse. The Astro logically inspired Mars, mail and Venus female symbols and the artist formerly known as prince was born from the beginning prince had a roadmap for the symbol. It was a fuck. You gesture to his record label, but it also held a much deeper meaning for the purple highness. The idea to create the symbol supposedly entered his consciousness during meditation. According to a report by the independent given that and the fact that he named it the love symbol. It's clear that it had a much deeper meaning to prince than a simple negotiating tool. On February eight two thousand four prince appeared at the forty six annual Grammy awards was beyond say one month later prince was inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of fame. And there was nothing the singer couldn't do he was the rare artists that could do everything. Well, saying dance, right and arranged songs produce music and lead a bad. Once he and wondered brothers parted ways in nineteen Ninety-six prince once again started experimenting with music here released albums, not only on traditional labels, but also exclusively via his website, a one eight hundred number with concert tickets and along with the Daily Mail newspaper as a result, many of his late nineties and early thousands releases can feel like hidden treasures difficult defined unless you bought them originally where can find them into us record store? throughout Princess nearly forty year musical career he surrounded himself with a collection of beautiful, muses and collaborators. Princess astrology chart tells an interesting tale of a powerful yet, troubled soul, he was born under the light hearted Sodhi sign of Gemini with a Scorpio rising. We're Tim nice curious in fluid Scorpio is intense IMAS Theriot's during his lifetime. He had to sail through troubled waters in order to gain wisdom and a deeper spiritual understanding about life. He used these experiences to write some of the most memorable songs to create the soundtrack to our lives. His desires were fueled by the ladies in his life. The first woman his mother who he felt abandoned him as a child would dramatically color his romantic relationships later in life. one of his most memorable relationships was with EPA loan Lia also known as Denise Matthew, a kaffir corn who played his girlfriend in the film, purple rain. And was the lead singer of the band vanity the couple split before the movie started filming and she would later tell people magazine I needed one person to love me, and he needed more. His path soon crossed with Sheila e a secretary ass- when her father and the band Santana was recording at the record plant in sausalito, next to him shortly after Sheila e attended one of Princess shows and introduced herself backstage, however, he already knew who she was because she had been doing session work with Herbie Hancock and George Duke. After the show prince told her that he and his basis Andre we're just fighting about which one of them would be the first to be your husband. He also prophetically vowed that one day she would join his band, the two struck up a friendship and soon began collaborating musically during the purple rain recording sessions prince took her under his wing, and she provided vocals on a Roddick cities be side to the single. Let's go crazy still Sheila e would become a successful artist in her own, right. And she scored several hits including the glamorous life and the bell of Saint Mark the relationship eventually took a romantic turn after she joined the tour together, she let Ian prince had all the makings of a perfect relationship. An unbreakable bond of love and friendship, unmatched talent striking looks fame and fortune at one point Sheila e in prince decided to take things to the next level. Inner memoir the beat of my own drum. She wrote how he popped the question live on stage. And she clad Lee accepted for the remainder of the year. The couple lived in romantic bliss, but like any other relationship prince and Sheely faced numerous ups and downs as time passed the couple of grew apart due to creative differences and her Chelsea over all the females that threw themselves at prince on a daily basis. Sheila e new towards the end of the love sexy tour that it was the beginning of the end for the relationship. She decided to leave the band and prince they were both really sad. And she would later tell billboard magazine. It was the hardest break-up that she ever had because she wasn't only losing her, man. But she was losing her best friend what she didn't know at the time was during the whole time. They were together prince was cheating on her with Wendy's twin sister Susannah. Prince definitely had a secretive side to him. And although he was a superstar emotionally he was an insecure man after the break-up was Sheely Princess romantic life became a revolving door of several leading ladies from actress Kim basing her in nineteen eighty nine to dating Madonna briefly. He even helped Madonna producer nineteen eighty nine album, like a prayer. Prince then moved onto a Spiring actress and singer Carmen Electra and helped launch her career in the early nineteen ninety s. Although their relationship was a little strange, she later commented in an interview about how prince meet her sleep in full makeup every night because he loves the fact that she looked like sleeping beauty when she slept. However might take his young backup. Singer was the first woman to truly capture heart completely and get prince to walk down the aisle in nineteen ninety a sixteen year old might say prince backstage after he saw a tape of her belly dancing sent by her parents, according to my Tae, she soon moved into his paisley park home, and he became a guardian after graduating from high school, she joined the new power generation the couple started dating when she turned eighteen and prince was thirty four my table later reveal in an interview she was virgin when she met him, and he was her first love prince fell deeply in love with her too. And love the fact that he was the only man might had ever been with he based his entire love symbol album around her and wrote the song the most beautiful girl in the world. Just for her four. Years after the couple started dating prince asked my Tate to be as wife, and they would enter into what she later called in her memoir of very bizarre marriage. after they married in nineteen ninety six might take up pregnant almost instantly. Unfortunately, their son boy, Gregory passed away just one week after he was born due to a rare birth defect called Pfeiffer syndrome, which is a defect of the school soon after that she became pregnant again and had a miscarriage the pain of losing to children was too much to bear and eventually tore their marriage apart and prince and my Tae divorced in two thousand prince quickly moved onto a second wife men Wella Testa Leaney who was a consultant for his charity love for one another. But they're speculation on how the couple really met and some say men Wella was once an obsessive Canadian fan who met prince before he actually divorced. My take. After his relationship ended with his first wife, Manuela, moved from Toronto to be with prince, and they got married on Christmas in two thousand one when she was twenty five, and he was forty three some believe prince, married men. Well on the rebound due to the incredible heartbreak. He felt over losing his son and wife, my take who is now dating Tommy Lee. And then afterwards was the crushing loss of his father in August two thousand one later in two thousand two Princess mother would die just two months after his wedding emotionally. It was a very rough period for prince. The couple's divorce papers paint a rocky relationship between Princeton, Manuela, and many of his friends and family accused her of being a gold digger the documents revealed that they lived in strategy lifestyle with each of them having their own personal assistant while they were married men Wella said she and prince through big parties after major awards shows like the Golden Globes Oscars and Grammy's for the events. Men. Wella would hire a five thousand dollar a day stylist to do her hair and makeup. The couple would spend fifty thousand dollars per party the divorce records showed in two thousand four alone prince earned forty two million dollars. What the papers failed to state was why the couple divorced. What we do know is that the marriage came to an abrupt end, and it must have been epic to upset prince. So deeply the Star Tribune revealed that in may two thousand five prince Lachmann Wella out of their marital home and Chan Hasson Minnesota. He also cut off her credit cards boxed up her stuff and stored it in a vault in paisley park for keeping prince than immediately tore down the house. They once lived in. Eventually she was awarded a house in Toronto worth approximately six million dollars in the settlement and Alexis during their split Manuela initially received ten thousand dollars a month in support prince also transferred three million dollars to our personal account. However, the divorce proceedings soon took a dark turn when Manuela got greedy. And she claims she needed forty two thousand seven. One hundred fifty four dollars a month in spousal support which she said amounted to no more than two percent of prince's monthly earnings because she needed to maintain a lifestyle that included attending the ward shows and hosting parties afterwards prince clapback stating this is my normal life and by filing her divorce petition she severed or access to his personal lifestyle. That third live together was not a marital standard of living that could be recreated with any money. The couple's divorce was granted in October two thousand seven later men. Well, it would go on to marry Eric Benet in two thousand eleven he's the former husband of Halle Berry who he had cheated on several times claiming he was a sex attic in the end, Princess, romantic fears, became true and all the women he loved did eventually leave. nineteen Ninety-two prince and the new power generation released. The love symbol album featured a mystical song written by his purple majesty about the divine number seven. The singer had a lifelong fascination with the sacred number partly because he was born on June seventh and would later go on to write his first song at the age of seven just like many religious scholars structures and mathematicians. He believed that the number seven was associated with God. And all things spiritual prince came into this world as an old soul with the life path number nine both numbers seven and nine would follow prince throughout significant periods in his life to his final moment in death when he was found alone and unresponsive in an elevator at his paisley park studio on April twenty first twenty sixteen. What's most significant about the date? He died it equal to the number seven. However, we must take a step back in time to seven days earlier in Atlanta, Georgia where prince would play his final concert to investigate what caused the singers timely death. On the night of April fourteenth prince performed two concerts at the FOX theatre in Atlanta a week after postponing the shows due to having the flu. Onstage that evening. His purple piano stood bathed in light behind. It was a beautiful piece of artwork of prince with a third eye symbolizing his state of enlightenment and spiritual wisdom, according to Lanta journals, conserve you prince shared a personal story with fans about how father taught him to play piano during the show. He left the stage a few times at one point saying to the crowd. Sometimes I forget how emotional these songs are. He sang an intimate rendition of his hit song nothing compares to you. And change deliri- of I would die for you from. I'm your messiah, and you're the reason why to he's the messiah, and he's the reason why. During the song controversy prince recited, the Lord's prayer and told the audience how much he loved God at the end of the show for his final encore. He would give an electrifying performance of purple ring little defense. No that only seven days later, he would be dead. It was reported the following day. Dr Schulenburg family care physician who worked at a clinic a few miles from the singer's home had written a prescription for opiates in the name of Princess friend. Kirk Johnson, his intention was that the drugs would go to the singer. And this is where the story gets even more twisted. According to Star Tribune later that evening prince would fall ill on a flight home from Atlanta and was found unconscious. The aircraft made an emergency landing emoting annoy, everyone on board feared he was dead. Longtime friend Kirk Johnson couldn't wake him unaware at the moment that prince had overdosed on opioids Johnson scooped up his boss in rushed him down the airplane steps creating Li like a baby paramedic said they gave him a shot of narking in opioid antidotes but were shocked when it didn't revive him. So they stuck them. Again, prince gasped and woke as responders ask questions a stoic Johnson spoke on behalf of prince giving short terse responses prince feels fine. He said I'll prince said was that he felt fuzzy he refused more treatment and a blood test because he didn't want people to know that he was addicted to prescription medications on Saturday. April sixteenth prince hosted a dance party at paisley park, showing up two hours late. He later told fans that evening way few days before you waste any prayers on April. Eighteenth prince was spotted. By fan riding, his bike around paisley park the picture of happiness smiling as he cruised around the neighborhood the fans that he wrote for at least an hour and showed no sign of fatigue on April. Twentieth. Prince's representatives called how're cornfield Marin, California specialist in addiction medicine, and pain management seeking medical treatment. For prince cornfield was scheduled to meet with prince on April twenty second. And he had contacted a local physician who cleared his schedule for physical examination on April twenty first. Prince was last pictured the night before he died leaving a Walgreens near his home around seven pm. It was the fourth time. The senior had been to the pharmacy that week an hour later prince headed back to his paisley park estate to retire for the evening. Sadly, just thirteen hours later he would be discovered a load in consciousness in an elevator by his friend, Kirk Johnson and personal assistant on April. Twenty first at nine forty three AM which early equals to the number seven the carbon county sheriff's office received a nine one one call requesting that an ambulance be sent to prince's home at paisley park. The caller initially told the dispatcher that an unidentified person at the home was unconscious then moments later said he was dead and finally identified the person as prints. The caller was cornfield sign with flown in that morning to devise a treatment plan for princes opioid addiction. Paramedics arrived shortly after the nine one one call and performed CPR. But we're unable to revive prince. The fifty seven year old singer was pronounced dead at ten seventy. Officials later stated that they believe prince was likely dead for proximity. Seven hours before his lifeless body was found. What's more chilly? The autopsy report would reveal that prince died of an accidental overdose of fennel a synthetic opioid fifty times more powerful than heroin. But carbon county attorney Marc Mets would later state that prince thought he was taking a common painkiller vicodin. But instead was taking counterfeit Vicadin laced with fennel. Leaving friends and family searching for answers and determined to find out who was responsible for giving prints the fatal dose that would later kill him. In two thousand one after two years of thoughtful consideration prince became a Jehovah's Witness in an interview with the New Yorker, he said, I don't really see it as a conversion more. You know, it's a realisation it's like morpheus and Neo in the matrix. After Princess religious awakening, he continued to be a spiritual soul seeker from that point on until his death. He made the study of scripture a lifelong endeavor, he was a member of the Jehovah's Witness kingdom hall in Saint Louis park. Minnesota an often engaged regularly in door to door ministry. His religion believes the death is not just the death of the physical body. But also, the death of the soul when a person dies. They cease to exist. In death is the opposite of life. The dead. Do not see or think, nor do they possess an immortal soul or spirit. According to prince's face. The funeral was required to take place within a week of his passing one day after his death. His body was cremated at the first memorial western chapel in Minnesota in witness by his sister, taika her son pres- as he took his final journey to the afterlife print had a very precise idea on how he wanted his death to be handled and had special instructions requesting a simple service. He believed his life in memory would continue to be honored on a daily basis through his words and music. The private service was held on Saturday, April twenty third in two thousand seventeen at his paisley park state in Minnesota a sea of purple marquee occasion. And mourners wore Princess favorite color to pay their final respects his life was celebrated by small group of family, friends and musicians in a beautiful ceremony the mourners included siblings. Taika Nelson close friends such as Damara is his former lover Sheila e band member Hanna Wilton and her husband, Josh Welton, and his two former ex wives the funeral program featured a quote from prince himself who said if I ever were to write down my life story, like a truly say with all the fame and glory. I was just a piece of clay indeed of the Potter's hand. Sly and the family stone basis, Larry Graham, who's credited with introducing prince to the Jehovah's Witness faith spoke about his friend and fellow musician at the service prince found great peace and fulfillment in his relationship with your ova guide. The program said he also found great satisfaction ensuring the things he learned from the bible with others. He did this faithfully up until his death on April twenty first two thousand sixteen prince drummer and former girlfriend Sheila e who was among the small group of mourners and attendant said of the service. It was very somber, quiet. We played his music quietly in the background. But it was hard a lot of crying. A lot of grieving. We were all holding each other up. After the funeral paisley park Steph handed out over three hundred purple boxes filled with prince souvenirs to fans who waited outside paisley park to pay their final respects. After the service prince's ashes were placed in a custom three d printed urn shaped like the paisley park estate. The earn is now on display in the atrium of the paisley park complex since October two thousand sixteen. After his death. Princess sister taika in an interview with people magazine said that she felt he knew he was going to die soon a few years before his death. He told his sister. I think I've done everything I've come to do taika cetera. Datum prints always spoken these types of riddles, and he was preparing her to go on in life without him. Tyco went on to say he needed to go prince said he was tired, and instead of crying he told her to dance he didn't like to see his sister cry and he didn't want us fans decry either his former lover up Alona would die at fifty seven. Also, just two months before prince on February fifteenth one day after Valentine's Day of renal, failure and Fremont, California. One of his friends Owen Husni Princess first manager from nineteen seventy six to nineteen eighty would tell variety magazine that in April. A few days before his death. He knew something wasn't right with prince Husni became even more concerned. When it was announced that prince was working on a memoir scheduled to be published in twenty seventeen. He also heard that the singer was looking into setting up his paisley park estate. So that it could be a public Graceland like visitors attraction, this is not something you do while. You're still living said Husni did prince have a foreboding that the end was near and wanted to get his affairs in order after his death. Investigators searched for clues on who may have been Princess drug supplier, the Daily Mail reported the footage inside his estate revealed a home that celebrated the singers achievements yet strangely lacked any warm personal touches like photos of family and friends and appeared to be a lonely bachelor pad. Sadly, the investigation revealed Princess said isolation that fueled his drug. Fiction with pill bottles in the name of his friend Kirk Johnson, which was found scattered throughout his mansion along with vault full of files drugs and cash in the weeks before Princess death, his friend Kirk Johnson arranged for the singer to meet Dr Schulenburg twice, according to search warrant documents. It stated the doctor had prescribed prince medication and reveal that he was showing acute signs of opiate withdrawal symptoms. Text messages between Kirk Johnson, and Dr Schulenburg which showed they were trying to get prince help in the days leading up to his death Jones and asked the doctor descend medical records to Howard Cornfeld, the addiction specialists Marin who sent a son to Minnesota to meet with prince on the day. He was found dead. However, the Walgreens video obtained by investigators shows Kirk Johnson picking up several prescriptions intended for prince the night before he died, which makes one ask if you're truly trying to help the singer get sober. Why to Kirk continue to enable prince's drug addiction by getting prescriptions filled in his name to give to them. Those questions and concerns would later be addressed in a lawsuit filed by Princess family against Dr Schulenburg and would be settled for a mere thirty thousand dollars in the aftermath of precise death more than forty five. People came forward claiming to be his wife child sibling or other relative one even included a Colorado inmate who claim to be his son, but a DNA test ruled it out in may twenty seventeen a judge ruled that the two hundred million dollars state would be given to sister taika, Nelson and his five half siblings. Sharon, Nelson Noreen Nelson. John r Nelson Amar bicker and Alfred Jackson, but two years later. His heirs have yet to receive any money from his estate, while the lawyers workout tax and legal issues. His estate announced in December two thousand eighteen that the Sony legacy reissues will begin in February two thousand nineteen the first three releases are to be Musicology thirty one Twenty-one and planet earth on the limited edition, purple vinyl and standard CD formats, also there is rumored to be prince memoir in the mix. That is expected to be released sometime in two thousand nineteen it will include as handwritten journals, and it will be filled with photos and memorabilia of the singer. When prince died and I put the twenty sixteen fans from around the world moon. The loss of the charismatic singer and celebration of his life. The whole world colored itself puzzle within hours of his death. Tributes poured in with bridges buildings on monuments. Listen, purple from Niagara Falls to the Eiffel tower in Paris to honor the memory of prince during his lifetime. A spiritual theme was constant presence in his music. Principally a strong spirit, which send rules, and he made up his own along the way. He created 'cause Mogae and a spiritual outlet that made sense to him his work and his creative. Life was proof of God. God working through him. Prince wants says despite everything no one can dictate who you are two other people people will always have their opinions only, you know, who you really are focused on living will typically and honestly haven't taken that you do those opinions matter. Worse live by prince gone, but never forgotten. Death, by misadventure was produced by cosmic media and written by me JC. Nova are supernatural team of co hosts includes the talented Eduardo Fahey in London. Tom dre, our master numerology and paranormal investigator in LA, Paul Robinson. Madge, I amuse and Marin and myself, I'm a psychic astrologer and paranormal investigator in Los Angeles. And San Francisco this episode was recorded at Robin sound studios Marin, California and also at union recording studio in West Hollywood, California kudos to sound engineers. Paul Robinson and Noah Shanklin, a special. Thanks to audio producer Christopher laying in Tucson who brings h up to life and Paulina from upper planet in London. She's responsible for the Super Bowl design of our official website. She's also the designer for one of our favorite true crime podcast. Casts case file, please like and follow us on Facebook, WWW dot Facebook dot com slash death, by misadventure podcast. Each episode is available for download direct VR our website at death by misadventure dot CO dot UK and also at itunes, Google play cast box Spotify pod being tune in radio public and Stitcher last. But not least our podcast is hosted by Lipson, I'm Tracy Nova and this has been death, by misadventure. Thanks for listening.

Ian prince prince Rogers Nelson Sheila e paisley park prince cornfield paisley park prince Husni prince clapback Kirk Johnson Atlanta California Dr Schulenburg paisley park estate James Brown sausalito Daily Mail Star Tribune FOX theatre Tyco Larry Graham
654: The Feather Heist

This American Life

1:06:18 hr | 1 year ago

654: The Feather Heist

"Support for this American life comes from capital one where you can open a savings account in about five minutes and earn five times the national average. Just imagine five times more savings toward that do home addition maybe even in addition on that addition this is banking reimagined. What's in your wallet? Capital title one and a member. FDIC support for this. American life comes from Royal Caribbean. Climb volcano in Saint Kitts. One day ZIP line through the Puerto Rican jungle the next day. Open your mind and push your limits. Come seek the Royal Caribbean ships registered in the Bahamas from WBZ Chicago. It's this American life. hourglasses off this week. I'm Shawn Call. So there's this guy who's been on our show a few times now Kirk Johnson. And he's this extraordinary person in his early twenty s he went to a rock and ran rebuilding projects in Fallujah for USA ID. After the invasion he saw that Iraqis he's who worked for the US military were being threatened and killed because of it and weren't getting asylum in the US and he was outraged so he singlehandedly launched a campaign which changed US lawn this and for years after he championed these cases saving thousands of people's lives it was beyond difficult extraordinary stressful job and so to decompress kirk fly fishing which is where today story actually starts. It has nothing to do with Iraq refugees and begins on a river in New Mexico. God fly-fishing just in case. You don't know you're using the special lure that looks like an insect. That's the fly floats on the water. Kirk makes his own flies out of things like rabbit for taking parts of one kind of animal using it to imitate another kind in order to catch a third kind. So kirks on the river in this guide a guy named Spencer Sime this is back in two thousand eleven and at one point Spencer reaches down to fetch something out of his tackle box. There's Kirk and and I caught this really colorful flash really beautiful looking fly and asked him what it was and he he pulls this thing out and it's it's a a it's a salmon fly that is its use to catch Salmon Kirk it only overseeing trout flies which are kind of brown or gray but this thing was intricately Lee tied together with bird feathers and silvery thread maybe an inch and a half long kind of a moth sized peacock like an impressionist version of insect. were dream about an insect. And it's got these emerald and Canary Yellow and Ruby colored strips from feathers of of these exotic birds may be ten or twelve species in total. And they're arranged in this really ornate pattern where the hook glitz and the Abbar Buell's can act gets really nerdy. Yes but I'd never seen anything like it. It's a beautiful piece of art. And he then said to me he goes well. If you think that's crazy you should hear about this kid who just broke into the British Museum of Natural History to steal hundreds of these exotic birds for their feathers which he sold to Victorian Salmon. Fly tyers because he wanted to buy a new golden flute and actual flute a musical instrument made of gold and As soon as he said that I mean I I'm not. I'm not like like over-dramatizing the moment like I was in the middle of a cast. When he was telling me this I just kind of froze I was like this? Is The craziest sentence. I've I've heard kirkstall applying Spencer with questions on the spot. They wanted to know everything so they went back to Spencer's place that night and looked up the kids profile on facebook his name Edwin Wrist R.. I S. T. and even that didn't seem like a real name to me. It seemed like some nineteenth century. You know he's one of these Victorian Taurean boxers Edwin had broken into the museum two years earlier in two thousand nine. This is a branch of Britain's Natural History Museum. A little town called train. So Kirk extorts googling around to read everything he can find out about the case but there wasn't much just a few articles in the British press that covered the basics which were Edwin wrist was from new. New York originally was in London. Studying music is exceptionally talented. Him Food he was only twenty when he stole the birds. Two hundred ninety nine of them and not just any dead birds. There were from one of the most important collections in scientific history and also their feathers would fetch about a million dollars if he took them apart and sold them to salmon fly tires. There's which he did some of them. He was caught. The police arrested him and yet somehow he was now walking around free auditioning for orchestras in Europe and huge huge number of the birds. Were still unaccounted for. Kirk wanted to understand how this happened. That a twenty year old with no particular experience and museum larceny made off with some of the most precious specimens in the world. Any wondered where the missing birds were Kurtz Guide. Spencer told him if you really WanNa find those specimens you should get yourself to the twenty first. Annual international fly tying symposium was in Somerset New Jersey at the Doubletree the hotel and conference center but one hundred people were there. If you've been to any trade show you can picture it sort of a maze of booths selling all kinds of fly. Tying supplies hooks thread feathers. And you buy whole birds there too. I I went to into one guy's booth and he had Like a pretty large box just full of parakeet heads and all love. Their beaks were kind of like open. You know like they were chirping at the moment. Won't go to gory. There but Were you about to say at the moment of their death is gonNA is actually going to say at the moment of their decapitation but there are bits of birds Everywhere the guy with the parakeet heads was busily tying a fly in a hook clamped in a vice and attach the feathers with thread wrapping it around the shaft. It's all of these spectators. Were gathered around him like he was a sidewalk magician. Doing a trick. Kirk post is a customer at first but the guy could tell. He wasn't serious about buying anything. So so kirk finally came clean and said to him that he was thinking of writing something about that museum heist and he looks up from his fly and he said. I don't think you want to write that story. And I said no like why and he goes because we're a small tight knit community and you do not want to piss off and I was momentarily stunned but in in my mind I was like holy cow. This is awesome because what would happen if you pissed them off. I don't normally pull this card out but I feel like my time. Influ job has calibrated raided my threat perception. A little bit differently and so a dude with a bunch of feathers pinched between his fingers does not constitute a threat to me Threat had the exact opposite effect on Kirk than he intended. And something kicked in for Kirk at this point like it sometimes does when he gets an idea in his head to me. It was just a very clear you know flare fired. Like if he was trying to turn me away from the story it it was just it was like he had just filled my tank up. It was like it was like hey pay more attention to this. This is crazy it is crazy stuff kirk found out. You can't turn away once you start hearing all the details not just about the highest risk. But we're the birds came from and the whole surreal subculture of salmon and fly tying what kirk calls the feather underground sometimes characterized by shady dealings and obsession Kirk interviewed more than fifty fly tires and discover the things that the people investigating the case. Didn't find out and that is our show today story we. I ran back in two thousand eighteen about what may be the greatest feather caper in history. Three expect high drama and ornithology and stay with us Act One specimens warning that this episode contains a few swear words. That unbeaten for the podcast version. You can find version with beeps at our website. This American Life Dot Org. The birds win still said they were valuable. Some of them were collected in the mid eighteen hundreds by one of the greatest scientific explorers of his time a man named Alfred Russel Wallace. It was another Darwin. And a peer of Darwin's Alfred Wallace spent nearly a decade thrashing through the Malarkey Pelayo capturing and preparing animal animal specimens and shipping them back to England. He lives in tiny huts. His flesh regularly invaded by bugs in about four years in he contracted malaria and figured figured he would just hunker down in his shack to sweat it out. And while he's hit in the middle of this fever he has a Eureka moment and figures out collusion through natural selection completely on his own. He's like I've got it like I figured it out and this is before Darwin came up with it. But this is the kicker he he sits down and he writes this paper meant for publication and he puts it in an envelope and e mails into Charles Darwin who had never publish wish anything on this yet. Darwin had figured it out to at that point but he'd been too scared to put it out there. These specimens were as important as Darwin's finches. which by the way are also at the museum? Am there early evidence of evolutionary theory and specimens like these can inform scientists about everything from climate change to the way we perceive color. Scientists are still using them. Alfred Wallace himself once wrote that each species each bird is an individual letter building. The words and sentences that describe the deep history of our planet if we allow these letters to disappear that history disappears with them. He also wrote that. It's probably best. If people from the West never see see birds like these and their original habitat and all their beauty and glory because they just plunder them and ruin everything. He had no idea how right he would turn out to be not long after. There was an industrialized slaughter all over the world and it was in the in the name of women's fashion. This was back when women were a lot of hats. It's an anyone who is anyone were had with a lot of feathers on them from parrots egrets ospreys designers in the US and Europe couldn't get enough of this stuff. Whole species were decimated by the fashion industry? You'd see hats decorated with entire birds in the nineteenth century. This was like the Gucci Bag. If you could only afford a robin that that was one thing but if you could afford a bird of paradise and we're talking about the whole bird being mounted with outstretched wings and sometimes these hats had several different birds mounted on them Holy Crow and sorry and it's a It's funny but it's like it was how they demonstrated their own purchase society. Ninety some women had so many birds on their hats that they had to squat just in order to fit into their carriages so gaudy and inconvenient. Meanwhile the gentlemen of the era we're also sort of using feathers as accessories salmon. Flies were like hat's for guys this was also around the time that all these exclusive fishing clubs were popping up on the coast of England and Scotland and each club had its own special patented Salmon Fi and the flies themselves had all these names. They're absurd like the exhort eum the Jock. Scott Scott. The Durham's ranger. Can I just WanNa digitally can I just. Yeah Yeah just to give people a sense of okay so so. This is the recipe for the first fly. That salmon fly that Edwin every tide. It's called the Durham Ranger. This is a recipe from the eighteen eighteen forties in the color of recipe. Yes the tail calls for feathers from the Indian crow. which is the red rough fruit crow? That's it all over South America the but requires two turns of black ostrich throat has light blue hackle usually from the Katanga which is from Central America? The wings have a pair of long jungle cock feathers with doubled tibbets on both sides and it goes on the cheeks from a bird called chatter the horns or blue macaw inches. A parrot of course back then when you wanted these feathers you went down to the local blue merchant or in Paris Plumas Ebay and you paid real money around the year. Nineteen hundred certain snowy. Egret feathers were more expensive than gold. But for me we all. I kept fixating on that. This is this is all bullshit that there's there's no reason why salmon should care about any of this they don't I mean you. You could tie a chocolate wrapper to a hook and catch salmon. Oh so all of these little subtleties of which subspecies us for the cheek of the feather. They don't even see any of that that that didn't matter to Victorian Salmon flight tires back then and these days. The community tying this kind of fly still tries to do it. According according to the same classical recipes in these one hundred year old manuals except now they don't even fish with them. They're just for show. These feathers from the same species arranged changed the same exact way so the fixation is on historical authenticity. Like a fly tower version of civil war reenacting. But because we've murdered so many birds words for so many reasons over the years. A lot of the most coveted species are now endangered or protected. Species of Kinga that is it's just completely illegal to to buy in salads the Katanga Macula and they completely Jones over this stuff. I have been struggling to find. Signed another hobby WHO's adherence are so quickly driven to break international laws To do the art. I mean you don't get into the dark side of knitting of course not every salmon fly tire is breaking the law but some of them openly flout the rules are just ignore them. Violators can be fined. Thousands of dollars there was a post on the main web form for this hobby. Classic fly tying dot com that sums up the slavish addiction to certain feathers. One one guy said there's something to a fly tied with the old materials and someone else responded. I've met this something I'm haunted by it constantly. Now it's like could drug nothing else matters nothing else compares. When it touches my fingers I feel the history? I'm taking back to a time. When fish were as big as logs looks fresh from the sea reds yellows and shades of blues their texture and color have the power to push? You do your best. There is nothing else compares to the power to the floats. I wanted to talk to the Burke's Edwin wrist. He emailed them every now and then over the course I have three years asking for an interview. Edwin always said no that it was still too raw and then finally agreed. Gave Kirk like a week's notice Kirk and his wife. Marie Jos Eighth flew to Duesseldorf where Edwin was living playing in an ensemble. Which is the music? You're hearing right now But Maria was worried. They didn't know this guy. He had broken into a museum after all. Who knew what he was was capable of if he was dangerous and they were meeting them at their hotel room so they hired a German bodyguard? Who Sat in the hallway during the eight hour interview? The Needn't didn't have bothered. Edwin will tall was not imposing even in his black peacoat. He was friendly Kirkum though. They're very different KIRKS Gosh farm boy. Midwestern nece and Edwin is living in a rarefied world of flutes and feathers in Europe we asked Edwin if we could air parts of their interview on the show and he said No. So you won't hear his voice but a lot of what we know about how we came to be in the museum. That night comes straight from him. He grew up in a quiet town in New York state. Eight south of Albany News cute sort of like Harry Potter with thick wire him glasses. Bit Of an Indoorsy Kid home schooled along with his younger brother and even back. Then he who is shaping up to be a great musician. Edwin parents were both journalists and when Edwin was about ten. His Dad was researching a story for discover magazine about the physics of fly fly casting so Edwin happened to watch an instructional video on how to tie flies using the specific kind of feather hackle. Let's tie the hackel around the base of the wing so that it floats lower in the surface and perhaps looks like a may fly at rest and defender is transformed. It's suddenly the hook. has like a thousand little legs sticking out in every different direction. Oh it looks like a like a centipede. Yes and for whatever. Ever reason ten year old Edwin brain was just frozen by this scene something so ordinary transform Indus something extraordinary link that was amazing to Edwin told Kirk that he and his brother watched that part of the video maybe eight times and soon. He was rummaging through the garage in the basement looking for a hook and thread anything he could find to try it himself. He plucked feathers from his mom's down pillow. His Dad Ed. Seeing all of this finally brought Edwin to a tackle shop got him advice and some hooks and other materials we could start tying flies for real trout. Flies to begin with the ugly ones Edwin brother got into a two. They took classes. Spent hours hunkered over their creations. And this kind of fussy trance before too long. They were winning. Fly tying competitions titians and going to conventions and it was at one of those conventions were Edwin laid eyes on his first salmon fly it was at the booth of a prominent flatiron named Edward Muzzle. Roll or Muzzy for short and once again little Edwin mind just froze. It was the same reaction Kirk hat on the water. Total bedazzle meant and and he's kind of wine and I and he starts talking to muzzy and then before you know it. He's arranging for private lessons with muzzy to learn how to do this. This new type of fly tying new to Edwin and so I think he was fourteen when he went up to Maine one summer and got lessons sends I think it was eight or twelve hour days. Were muzzy proceeded to walk them through not just the techniques. But the history of this art form during that first Detoro with Mazi though where Edwin tied the Durham Ranger. The used substitute feathers or subs. Meaning no rough troop grow no black ostrich feral. Instead they use like died chicken feathers or whatever and muzzy he'd been tying flies longer than Edwin had been alive could tell right away that Edwin was a natural a prodigy and and so at the end of that session that first session. When mazey's saying goodbye he gives Edwin an envelope and kind of in hushed tones said? This is what it's all about Edwin opens the envelope and inside is one hundred fifty or two hundred dollars worth of exotic bird feathers from the fruit crow. And from Captain Guy Think now mazey's stuff was legal and it was a gesture to this young acolyte. You work your way up to these things you know like when you get good enough. Try using one of these rhetoric fruit crow feathers and that's when Edwin caught the bug. All he wanted to use in his flies were exotic bird feathers from then on. He started doing chores for his neighbors gathering firewood. Just for a little extra together money. He soon grew into a master fly tire. which by the way means an expert mimicry able to consistently and perfectly Hue to the same classic recipes again and again but there was always this one limitation as to what he could accomplish as good as Edwin Guide and I mean he was heralded as the future of fly? I time by fly tire magazine which I subscribe to do you. Don't he was completely embraced by this community. By his sixteenth birthday. I thinking he was a legend already but as good as he was he was a sixteen year old who wasn't really flush with cash and so whenever there were occasional ebay auctions of the species that he wanted he always got outbid by these wealthier. Older d'oeuvres fly tyers who had disposable income and so his devotion to this art form was kind of always defined by I a longing for what he didn't have these other guys would say yeah. Well it's a good fly but Heino talk to me when you get some real Patenga. Yeah that's not going to feel that good no especially to a kid Edwin. Has this specific way of talking. Perhaps cultivated from living in Europe for many years and and on the topic of using substitute feathers. Instead of the real thing he told Kirk the knowledge of its falsity eats at you so in a way Edwin was a popper musician position gazing through a shop window at a shiny musical instrument which by the way he literally was that too at the same time he was excelling it fly tying he was also excelling at the flute just to give you a sense. This is a youtube video. Edwin posted of him. Covering master of puppets by METALLICA. Playing all the parts on different flutes. Anyway he was finally admitted to the Royal Academy of Music in London but he didn't bring any of his fly tying gear or feathers with him. He said customs wouldn't have appreciated his birdie bag around the same time. A fly tying friend in Canada and something of a mentor to Edwin sent him an email saying basically. Hey while you're over there you've got to check out this place. North of London a branch of the Natural History Museum in a town called Trang. The attached pictures of drawers filled with brilliantly colorful bird specimens. They weren't on display. They were stored away in a special wing of the museum. That the general public isn't allowed into Act Three the museum is this. Big Old Brick Tudor building from the eighteen eighty s on the outside aside. It looks more like a private mansion or boy school than a museum. The only way you can see that special bird collection is for legitimate research purposes so Edwin came up with a plan alive. He emailed the museum and told him he needed to photograph the birds for a friend's PhD thesis in November Fifth. Two Thousand Eight. He brought a camera to the museum. Signed the visitor logbook using his name and was escorted to the birds of Paradise Collection. You can tell a research specimen of a bird from a mile away there. I sockets are stuffed with cotton their wings folded down at their sides legs Steph. They're referred to as bird skins and importantly the legs have these tags attached to them with the species and date and other bio data and in this case Alfred Wallace's signature without that tag. The specimen isn't a specimen anymore. It's just a bird who knows where the hell it came from but research of course was the last thing on Edwards mind looking at the birds. He was just in awe of their arresting beauty. He made this analogy. He said if I put a gold brick on the table. It's really impressive. There's a shock value of understanding. Wow that's really valuable and this is is. This is what he told me he goes. If you go to Fort Knox if you go into the vault there's a drastically different feeling then just seeing a gold brick quote for a fly tire for someone who understands the feathers and sees the potential in them in really has a passion. I guess you could call it an obsession. I don't like to use it because it sounds like a negative term Bat over whelming. Wow what have I just seen feeling was all that I had and I remember it to this point because it was just so extraordinary and the sad thing he told me. Is that many many many well. Most people have no idea idea what that feels like Edwin photographed all sorts of different species of birds that day and he says he wasn't casing the museum that first time he just wanted to look except he also took pictures of the area around the museum. Those Shirley were not interesting photographs but they may have proved useful later on. Oh and also he opens up Microsoft Word on his computer and creates a file L.. Called Plan for Museum invasion. No and it's a little on the the no I know but you don't think anyone's ever gonna see your hard drive. You know like in some ways it was like A. It's a smart thing to do like to build a list of the things that you're going to need to pull off museum heist you don't want to just wing that wing at now. But I mean he wrote on there that I mean he would need a glass cutter and I said. Was this like one of those things you see in the movie where you know. It's some perfect disc shaped glass. Ugly Pink Pants. Yeah and it. It was just like a hand held like almost like an exacto knife and I was like well. Did you practice. And he's like no. I didn't think it'd be that hard. The evening of June twenty third two thousand nine Edwin finished playing a concert at the Royal Academy of Music and boarded a train to Trang. According to him he brought along long only one empty suitcase pair of latex gloves. He took from his doctor's office. Some wireclippers a little led light and the Glass Cutter Act Four. The height came up. Edwin came up from the station thing when a suitcase on the night before the detective on the case Adele Hopkin took Kirk to the crime scene up public footpath thirty-seven and trying to sort of secluded area outside the museum and he's frank which is doable. Up here on the top. He clips some strands of barbed wire in order to get to a window. This window here which is not balls and was the reason he brought the glass cutter which it turns out. He dropped along the way somewhere. He had a moment of doubt where he started saying to himself. Maybe that's some kind of sign that I'm not supposed to do this. Like maybe I should just bail on this whole thing but that this other voice in his head said No. You've been planning this forever. Like just figure it out so he used a different kind of glass cutter. Giant rock just smashed one of the windows an Winston Edwin says. He's not sure how he didn't cut himself up on the glass. An alarm is triggered in the museum and there is a security guard there that night This very contentious point but Edwin win told me that he thinks that the security guard was engrossed in a soccer match The museum virulent denies this And they told me the security depth particular security guard doesn't even like soccer but one thing that we're certain of is that an alarm was triggered the security guard did not notice it in Edwin had the run of the place and he was in there undetected for at least an hour was a weirdly easy thing to pull aloft. His plan had been to take a couple of the best specimens of each species but in the dark with just as little. Led Pinch Light. He couldn't see which were the best ones so we just started grabbing whatever he could fit in his hand the CA- Tangas were small bagged about one. Hundred of those the resplendent Quetzal though were trickier. He had to carefully coiled their long tails in order to make them fit. You moved from cabinet to cabinet sometimes emptying drawers or nearly. He took forty. He's seven of the museums. Forty eight REF fruit crow. You only left the last one because he didn't see at wedged in the back of the trae because he's been here before. Knew exactly exactly where the guy what you wanted to be. Suitcase leave it. Would you just back. Kirk tried to get Edwin to describe the feeling that he had load the birds into the suitcase but sitting together in the hotel and Dusseldorf Edwin was strangely devoid on this score. He told Kirk it wasn't like other my now Jojo it was surprisingly unexciting and technical. Like how do I make them fit. Though he did admit that even he was amazed he managed to pull it off Edwin and said quote the fact that essentially an idiot with Iraq could steal a suitcase full of birds from the Natural History Museum. Even as I think about it and I've thought about this myself it's absurd third and then he went out the way he came in. Shove the suitcase back out of the window. I and climbed out after it at which point this total exhaustion fell over him. Dragging one foot after the other back to town and mixed in with the fatigue was paranoia when he got to the train platform every set of footfalls falls on the walkway above him was a potential threat and he was there for hours. He had missed the last train back to London that night and had to sit on the platform with a million dollars. It's worth of birds until four. In the morning he got back to his room. Had this kind of fork moment where he laid out all the birds and kind of realized that the success of his hall on the floor or I think he laid out on his bed. Do you like roll around Dan. I can't that I don't know but There was nobody else on planet earth that had this many flawless specimens estimates of these species to now be sitting with this hall like it would just he would punch through due to the highest level of fly tying because he wouldn't want for anything and he would just have this kind of he could just totally in in a different game now and no one else able to play with it you know. And if they wanted to play they'd have to pay through the nose again. Edwin had stolen two hundred ninety nine birds for the museum and he would never have to wonder again where his next feather was coming from. The broken window wasn't discovered into the following morning. The cops were called in. They look around and the museum and the cops together conclude that nothing seems to have been stolen. Wait what they went looking for the things things that they knew had a huge market value. Like Darwin's Birds Darwin's birds the famous finches which were still safely cuddled in their drawer. Once again Alfred Wallace was second best to Darwin. Yeah I went through all that's to me. It was like one of the final blows to him. Is that if they had cared about Wallace as much as they should they would've gone and checked to make sure that Wallace's birds were still there but they didn't and if they had done that they would have found out right away aide. They had been robbed. They would have had a big head start on things but as it happened it took them a almost like it was well over a month before they even found out that they were robbed. Thirty five days days. In fact the closed circuit surveillance cameras in the town of Trang reset after twenty eight days in a statement to us. The museum said paraphrasing here. There's nothing more important than the security and welfare of the collection and after the theft changed how they grant access to the collections and also beefed up their security measures in the investigation. It was only when someone wrote to the museum with a question about one of the species that curator went to that cabinet. Open the drawer and saw that it was empty was a huge blow. The curator's at the train are part of a long lineage. Caring for and protecting this collection during the blitz of London in World War Two bombs raining down everywhere it was their predecessors who bundled up the museums bird specimens and secretive them out of the city up to their a new location in Trang. That's why they're there so they'd be safe and now under the watch of collections manager. Robert Priest Jones. This has happened. There is a missing chunk from the record. I think something flame bothered. It is missing chunk that you know really really substantial possibly over the half of the world's resource of that species is now missing. The whole thing was a complete kick in the guts it would desperately deeply depressing oppressing Alfred. Wallis Birds Survived Hitler but not at rest. The investigators didn't have a lot of obvious clues to go on. There is almost no physical evidence but had the police or the museum looked in the visitors log they would have found Edwin full name. which if someone had googled it they would have found Edwin risk dot com on which he was selling some of their specimens using their Latin names? They also would quickly discovered that he played the flute. And if they had gone looking for the birds on Ebay or the flying forums they would have found birds for sale from someone with the handle flute player. Nineteen eighty eight. One of the posts was titled Indian Crow Feathers for sale buying new flute. If any of the buyers asked Edwin when made up stories as to where the birds came from but mostly no one asked didn't WanNa know the way Edwin finally got caught with sort of random A tip came in from a flyer who had seen a bird skin at a festival in the Netherlands of all places that looked like it might come from the training and the guy traced it back to flute player in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight on Ebay. It took some doing but the police finally tracked wind down and showed up at his apartment with a warrant one year after the break in he confessed immediately brought the officers into his bedroom where his girlfriend was still sleeping and showed them the birds since he confessed and pled guilty. The case went right to sentencing Edwin was looking at ten years for burglary and fourteen years for selling stolen goods but during the sentencing process Edwin lawyers brought in a psychologist who diagnosed him with Asperger's syndrome. That changed everything. The judge in a statement said that Edwin crime holy really merited a lengthy prison sentence. He said the crime amounted to quote a natural history disaster of world proportions but he said because of the diagnosis and a legal precedent accident in the UK involving ass burgers. A Long prison. Sentence would probably be overturned on appeal so he sent. Instead into one year suspended. There was is a financial penalty to but no time behind bars of the two hundred ninety eighty nine birds. A third of them came back to the train unscathed. Another third had been plucked at or dismantled or in some way compromised chiefly their bio data. Tags had been been removed with the date and species Alfred Wallace's signature which meant those specimens. Were now useless to science and the last third did not come back to the museum. They were gone missing. Some of them were sold but certainly not all of them where were they. When Edwin was caught he pleaded guilty? which meant that? The investigation stopped and there was no search for the for anything else. The museum wasn't looking forward. The British police wasn't looking for it. And as I I was starting to dig around in these forums. I would see occasions guys cracking jokes about the heist and it wasn't like it was a a reformed community. I was like this is nuts. Like like someone's gotta find these things and Kirk is someone who can't stop himself when he comes across an injustice that that he might actually be able to fix. Also this unsettling thing happened during the interview Kirk says Edwin just didn't seem like someone with asperger's and after six of their eight hours hours together. He told him so Edwin responded that he hadn't exhibited any obvious symptoms of the disorder until he was in the evaluation room not long before sentencing. He said I became exactly what I was supposed to be. If I'm being honest I was pissed off like this is this started out as just a quirky funny funny story to me but when I learned about Wallace when I learned about the debt that we have to these specimen estimate collections and that they were still out there a lot of them. Were still missing Dan. It took on more serious. The valence that were suddenly. I was like okay. This isn't just like a funny thing like there's you can't go back and get another bird from eighteen sixty anymore that that birds gone and what I meant was a kid who was not remorseful. who kind of grimaced? When I referred it to him as a thief at one point and he told me that he doesn't think of himself as a thief you know are we at the anger level at this point like probably approaching there because now it says if this is a case closed and no one's looking for these birds and I'm still on these forums? Seen people trading and selling things that look suspiciously like Edwin Birds had Edwin hidden a bunch of way and was still selling them with someone else selling them Kirk couldn't let it go and then he had a kind of breakthrough became certain that he knew all of the missing specimens. Were coming up. Kirk goes and confronts his prime suspect and he learns that ornithologists can have serious potty mouths. That's an a minute from Chicago public radio when our program continues support for this American life comes from capital one capital one has a fresh take on banking. Now you can open a new savings account in about five minutes and earn five times. The national average banking with capital one means five times the savings toward your dream honeymoon or five times the savings toward your family's ultimate vacation even five times the savings toward just feeling good about saving whichever it is. It's time to make your savings goals come true. This is banking reimagined. What's in your wallet? Capital one and a member. FDIC support for this. American life comes from Royal. Caribbean with Royal Caribbean Arabian. You're invited to do more than just dip. Your toes in the water snorkel with whale sharks near Cozumel sore of the Bahamas in a helium balloon off perfect day island lind discover new delicacies at award winning restaurants and Soak in the warm Caribbean Sun. You can do all this and more on one cruise vacation come come. Seek the Royal Caribbean ships registered in the Bahamas. It's this American life. I'm Sean Cole in for Ira Glass Today. Show the feather highest highest the true story of one of the weirdest capers in recent history which was also a tragic loss to natural history. And it's the story of Kirk Johnson. Who took it upon himself itself to reinvestigate the theft of two hundred? Ninety nine bird specimens from the train museum. North of London accents. The suspect Kirk of course asked Edwin wrist about the missing bird skins when they were together and Dusseldorf Edwin told him. The police took everything from. I'm him they had everything he also in the interview called into question whether the museum new how many were still missing and suggested they never really knew how many they had in the first place but the people at the train had given Kirk this document a meticulous accounting of what come back to them and what was still unaccounted for. And Kirk had it with him this him reading into Edwin in the hotel room. I mean this is like a pretty thorough like this number specimens missing July in Texas. Hello without label approximate number especially represented by feathers and skin fragments estimate of consolidate. I know this is weird. This said this doesn't seem haphazard and Edwin said. No it doesn't seem hazard I would agree. It looks very very thorough and it looks very calculated. I guess and so I said well so then if that's accurate where are they and he goes if someone has them. I really don't know about it. And the question question is does one individual have them or is it parceled out over time and I I look up at him and I said but aren't you the person most uniquely position to answer that and he says in what sense and I looked down on I was like you're you're the one that took them and and After kind of a long winded Response he said. I don't have them. Fundamentally tweet. Used the word fundamentally yes now a number of Edwin customers return the feathers bird parts and whole birds that they bought from him to the museum. In some cases Edwin Dad reimbursed them spending thousands of dollars. The museum was now faced with the bizarre task. Of Having to calculate how many feathers equaled one red rough after fruit crow and factoring all of that in the number of outstanding birds on the spreadsheet shrank down to sixty four and his kirk waded through all of the past sales sales of birds online doing way back machine searches and stuff like that. The sort of pattern started to emerge. That seemed odd. There was another user who had clearly posted specimens is that came from Edwin Stash. This different user named Goh Kun G. O. K.. You either it was Edwin under another name or someone who is working with him to sell all the birds and accomplice and I really did not know the answer for a long time but this Goku guys suddenly became like a big person of interest. Chris to me Kirk started mapping of Edwin closest associates in the fly tying world and he developed a short list as to who might be if it wasn't Edwin and then one day Kirk happened to be visiting with an ornithologist at Yale named Rick from one of the head curator at the peabody museum MacArthur Genius Guggenheim recipient. And and you walk in. And he's just like dropping f-bomb right and left. I love this guy. He wrote these notes because I was trying to get fish. Wildlife Service to bus plus these fuckers rick from had taken an enraged interest in the train case himself like Kirk he had taken copious notes kept track of the sales online and listening adding to the two of them talk. Each met the only other person in the world who's not only heard of but loves justice passionately. The same band he worshiped in Highschool School. Did you get. Did you ever see risks his website at the day like when he was busted what was on his website his websites down. But did you ever recorded record it. I have got his hall worksite. almo screen shots and looking at Edwin website definitively narrowed the shortlist of who who might be down to one guy that long right there long and another top notch fly tire who's exactly Edwards Age. Their friends along the way and lives in Norway. So I you have no idea how hopeful that is me. This is why and Kirk had other evidence implicating long some facebook exchanges Edwin saying. Did your box arrive pictures of the two of them on a trip to Japan after which all kinds of new birds were posted for sale by Goku. Not only that other members of the community were openly accusing using long of working with Edwin telling him. We know it's you. Your days are numbered now. Edwin has insisted all along. That long was not involved in the highest. He defended long against accusations on the Internet and he told Kirk that long was not involved and then he put Kirk in touch with long and long the only other person Kirk new love clearly seemed to be selling. The stolen. Birds agreed to talk seven. Oslo Kirk thought maybe long had been at the museum with Edwin that night there was always a question question as to how Edwin pulled this off on his own. Maybe long had put him up to it. In the first place. He picked him being wealthy and manipulative using Edwin as upon and when kirks plane landed in Oslo. He was just about jumping out of his skin. He was so eager to talk with long. He took a train out to a little suburb of the city. Long met him at the station. He was a teenage look. Twenty something with a big smile Chuck Taylors. I had miraculously convinced him to do the interview at his home. Because I had this kind of fantastical notion that he would slip up and I would you know find some partially exposed wing under the couch or something and Like a box of dead birds would come tumbling when he was trying to reach for some sugar packets or something So we walk into the apartment and out of the corner of my either green flash just bombing towards my face and his parrot that just was loose in the apartment and flipped over and landed on my shoulder and and spent and most of the. I think that was like a seven hour interview the first day And it was a an uncomfortable interview around. I'm learning all of these things his life but also confronting him with stuff and his bird is anymore like kind of nibbling might year low and I hope I'm not like a jerker like the worst day for these questions by now those questions. Yeah and something else happened. When Kirk walked into the apartment all notions of long being the rich conniving mastermind of the train heist fell away? Long was from a family of Vietnamese. These refugees who had fled the war to Norway in the seventies he started tying flies in a boys home when he was a kid. Basically as an escape because the things were told blend in our family. I'm in I don't think about that now because it's like possible the things were bad We had to do our best to just go through it with a parents Being in Vietnam old After the war and stuff and Long said he never really had what he called true friends and around that same time. After it started tying flies he was reading about other flight tires online and he heard about this one kid in America who is exactly his age. A think US start hearing about adven- when I was fifteen gene or sixteen because he was really famous spectrum long looked up Edwin they met online. I just writing back and forth forth at a ton in common so they decided to meet that Japan trip was the first time they saw each other in person they type flies together. They're Edwin had already stolen the birds at that point but he hasn't been caught yet and you know he's telling me that Edwin reached out to him to ask him to help sell these things but just as a friend he just I said hey I found these things. Can you post these things online for me and long thought that that was what being a friend was. He thought he was can help Edwin make enough money to buy his new flute and he also felt really flattered and honored that Edwin wrist was paying attention to him. long-told Kirke mostly just reposted some Edwin ads including pictures of birds but it is true that Edwin sent him a bunch of resorted packets of feathers and three or four whole bird skins to sell long did sell some of them long. Says he didn't. Yeah no any of it was stolen at the time which Edwin Confirms Edwin made up stories about where the birds came from and long never stopped to think how implausible they were partly because he was blinded by his love of the birds but also probably he was blinded by his infatuation for Edwin Looking back long says Edwin was probably just trying to attract less attention to himself. My assumption is just like. He wanted to erase his traces but the traces all all literally I don't know why but he's using using you as a friend like like it's Fritz. Say No it's absolutely not an ahead like a tough like decision decision about how to deal this friendship. At the time I think when when he gets exposed I was really shocked. I was frozen from the forum because people a assumed that I was the one responsible for everything. I was considering if I should turn my back because it's reasonable for me to to erase this friendship. You know like you can't do this to France. It made me really upset with Edwin. Yeah I don't know how you look at this chain of events And see them as equals. I don't know how you look at the chain of events and see this as anything other than Edwin using him as a fence to potentially take the fall for him. If things got you you know Harry sitting with Long Kirk ultimately turned into the question of where the missing birds were that instead of just asking him outright. He eased into the subject with that kind of Colombo just one more question gentle persistence. Meanwhile long sometimes sounded like disgraced banker at a Congressional hearing saying he couldn't remember things that seem to basic for instance Kirk asked him whether the customers paid Edwin directly or if long handled any of the money. I don't remember if I received the money or if the money went to him but never right. I mean I'm not gonNA. I'm trying to remember people. These things were selling for thousands of dollars. Like yeah you. Don't you think he would remember. I don't think I saw things for thousands of dollars what I remember. Most is selling. Small amounts like Packages of feathers. I really rude by another point where I'm like I'm really just yeah. I understand because I spent like for years to try to forget all this. Yes yeah so what are you doing like try to bring up all the surface so that is quite uncared to myself because I trying to close this case. Yeah Kirk thought to himself. You and me both buddy. There are still a lot of skin missing. Yeah live now. And I don't have the skins many people would probably think that I possess those skits. Why because I was so close related to advance that would be chill thing to assume it would be very logical like reasonable for them to think that now? Yeah so I guess that's what I'm saying. Yeah if that's not true than a how can we prove that. That's not true. I can I can prove it. You can't you can't count then question. B. is where are they. I don't know how does that possible. How do you not know like you know like I mean you and I I I know what at like? I don't know where because tiny part was sold through me like you can't like ask for sued for not having skins in her apartment feeling bad for him but also frustrated it's still seemed like maybe he was holding something back and and he didn't know if he would ever see long again but then the next morning long was waiting for Kirk in the lobby of his hotel. He told Kirk had been thinking then. decided quit tying lying flies with exotic bird feathers. He was afraid though that he'd lose the few friends he still had. He said they only liked him because he tied beautiful flies. Kirk and long spent the next two days hanging out. They walked around the city together mostly sightseeing the one point. They met on the steps of the National Gallery. Were amongst painting. The scream was stolen in nineteen ninety-four by thieves who broke through a window and I just decided like screw it. I'm just going to. I'm going to just do one more. The tack on his defenses here and see if I can get him to admit anything. I heard from like two separate people that like in the last year. You've told them that you have so much Indian crow and you don't you don't have any need for it and and so like like what. Am I supposed to do with that like when you do whatever you but is it true that you have a lot of Indian crow. No I have like I still have some of the packages of The ones was was so okay. Long kept those packages. He was supposed to sell for himself. After Edwin was arrested. He sent back the bird skins but he kept the feathers and I suddenly I was like okay. This is is now. We're getting somewhere. Like how many and. He was just miserable under this line of questioning but finally estimated that he had between six six and eight hundred of these feathers from from Edwin but eight hundred is a lot of factors. I know. And he didn't have that many anymore he had sold half of them mm again back before he knew they were stolen and kept the rest which he had been tying with ever since he was now down to about one hundred feathers Kirk says long also also admitted that the number of birds Edwin sent him was more like ten or twenty rather than just a few we check this with long and refutes it in any case Kirk Burke finally felt like he was closing in on what he'd been after obviously he had no real standing to be asking. Any of these questions are making demands. He wasn't the police didn't work for the museum but he had been on this case so doggedly for so long I was like long. You know you have to show me these things right. And he kind of very quietly said yes and then he started crying and he started crying he and he you know he told me he's never told anyone about this that he'd not even his family knows about this like that that he's never admitted admitted this to anyone and I saw someone who is really struggling with his actions and in a way that I hadn't seen with with Edwin that There was no. We're no tears in the Edwin interview. There were no I mean there was kind of you know he thought it was just as crazy as I did. This whole story you attitude you know so not only are you getting a better accounting out there co-involvement and the number of birds that were involved but also there's something else that you've been looking for which is like contrition kind. Yeah Yeah Kurkin. Long took the train back to long department. We're long dipped in and fetched his binder of feathers. Sort of like a stamp book with little pockets. They brought it to a local bar ordered a couple of beers. Here's and opened up. Can I take pictures. I WanNa ask you like the just like what's what kind of in four years after he first I heard about the highest kirk had his hands feathers that no one else knew about Edwin risk had stolen from the museum. It was the first time he had seen stolen lynching museum feathers in the wild fugitive feathers. Kirk says holding that binder. He felt a straight line back to Wallace Wallace. Who wrote all living things were not made for man still while? It's probably never pictured two guys pouring over the detached feathers of birds in bar in suburban Oslo. So this is like It's this is this is not trying. Okay this is twinned and these are okay. So there's like should just count. How only the train I tell above every year that'd be great? Okay one two three four five six. I remember very clearly we. Having two-thirds one was six here they are. I found them. Can you tell so quickly. which ones okay sir? Uh you're at forty their forty one and then at the same time recognizing just how pathetic it all was and how small it all was. There weren't there wasn't a box of missing birds there. were no labels these things. I knew what would happen. They're just plucked harvested feathers from one hundred fifty year old birds that will never be returned to their. You can't reattach ranch and a bird you can't do anything with them and so it was complicated moment where I was really kind of like proud. So how'd but also a little embarrassed because I was like this is. There's nothing really triumphant about this moment. Cocteau Long. He thought long. I should send the feathers back to the museum partly because it might help long put the whole ugly business behind him long agreed it took him a few months but he finally stuffed them all into an envelope envelope with no return address. Kirk learned of two other full bird skins that definitively came from the train. The buyer lives in South Africa and has no interest in sending back back about twenty others belonging to a guy in Montreal. Look like possible trank birds. But he's resold them already and say long sold ten more of them. That would bring the total number birds unaccounted for down to thirty two. Which means A? There's just no way to find out what happened to all of them anymore and be Edwin is not the only fly tire are in the world who felt okay about knowingly owning stolen property. Anyone who bought anything from him should send it back to the museum in whatever shape. It's in that. What would come of them? Sending back parts of birds or feathers. Or whatever you know no scientific nine tiffin value of someone will figure out down the line how to figure out which feather came from which bird but it would be a a moral victory honestly a moral victory. Yeah I mean it's not an I'm fully aware of that. They're not going to be used but they don't belong to this to this community. The belong to that museum and the end of this should be. Everyone's just return things that they know are stolen even even if it's two feathers and they can walk around with their head a little bit higher and maybe that's just so stupid of me for suggesting this but if the the choices between them returning it and then getting to keep it that seems easy to me but Kirk finally decided to let go of this case. He realized that he had become just as obsessive as Edwin about the birds and obsessive as Wallace for that matter all three men for completely different reasons spent years fixating over the very same bird's not the same species. The same physical animals Wallace wanted knowledge. Ed Wynn solid beautiful callers and guests dollar signs and Kirk. No he knows how looney this sounds. Wanted to avenge the birds as a last ditch effort and with the museums knowledge. He went on the main fly tying forum and said that the train was ready to accept. Accept any anonymous returns. No questions asked. He said as much as I would personally like to know who might be in possession of any of the missing skins. It is much more important written that they be returned and have included the museums address below for anyone who is so in fine. I don't mean to lecture and imagine that some of you might be annoyed by this point but I am challenging you to help remove this cloud that hangs over your hobby simply deleting any reference to what happened at the. Trang doesn't seem like the best way of coming to terms with it. And then more than forty members of the fly tying community asked the moderator of the forum to Delete Kirk Post and like so many other things in the story disappeared. Both the Kirk Johnson wrote an excellent book about the museum highest which was the basis for this story. That has lots of details that we weren't able to get into on the radio. It's called the feather thief beauty obsession and the natural history heist of the century since this program first aired in two thousand eighteen perk investigated for other Natural Natural History Museum Heists for other cases of people stealing birds in Frankfurt Stuart Florida and in Los Angeles where he lives we should say that Edwin risked was not responsible for any of those crimes Little in a pretty pretty our program was produced today by Mickey Meek with help from Dana Chavez Neil Drumming Damien Grave Hana Joffe Walt. David Kastenbaum Seth Linda and Anna Martin Reuben Simeon Christopher's tallest Nelson Matt tyranny. Julie Whitaker and Diane Woo or senior producer for this episode. Was Brian Reid. Managing Editor was Susan Burton Production Helper. This rerun from Jessica lesson hop and more Gill Research helped for Michelle Harris Special. Thanks to Ellen Paul James Kosta and Marion Bentley. Our website is this American Life Dot Org Award. This American life is delivered to public radio stations by PR. The public radio exchange support for this American life comes from the lugging brewing company fuelling stories and songs logging DECI. PA and committed to keeping the pub- in public radio find out more at log. ANITA'S DOT com. Thanks as always to my boss. Ira Glass I happened to see him in the park last weekend again with his two dogs a labrador and a Pomeranian just the three of them walking along and he got really hostile when I approached them. Were a small tight knit community. And you do not want to piss off. I'm Sean Cole. Iris back next week with more stories of this American life where the cold winter wins. Dome You next podcast. This American Life Five Women Am eight and I felt like I was going to die if I never met him. They had like named someone like the hypnotize hypnotized. They're like oh the hypnotize hypnotize her. But eventually I found it was me. I'm twelve and you're an adult talking. Weinstein goes to trial. We have the story of five women and who dealt with a man who has not famous and how their own personal histories evicted. How that went? That's next weekend podcast or new public radio station

Dusseldorf Edwin Oslo Kirk Edwin Edwin wrist London Alfred Russel Wallace Europe Kirk Johnson Natural History Museum US Edwin Guide Edwin Birds Kirk extorts Edwin Dad Trang Edwin Stash Dusseldorf Edwin FDIC New York Iraq
The California Wildfires

The Daily

21:42 min | 3 years ago

The California Wildfires

"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the daily. Today. The campfire one of the deadliest and the most destructive wildfires in California history continues to rage in the state as to other fires burn their simultaneous in a state where devastating wildfires were already. The new. This time heals different. It's Monday November twelfth. Paradise is right in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada about one hundred miles north of Sacramento. It has roots back in the old extraction economy days of the eighteen hundreds as a logging and mining town, but it's real life in recent years has been partly as a retirement community and partly as a an affordable place for people who don't have a lot of money at has a kind of working class vibe. And I never saw in the days before the fire, but it by all accounts was beautiful place. Kirk Johnson is a national correspondent covering the west. He spent the weekend in paradise, California. Around six thirty am on Thursday. It began in the hills near paradise. Carring is ten twenty three in the morning. And it's so smoky out that looks like nighttime. Like, I can't even see inside the house. I'm in my car right now. Now, we're loading up, and we're going to be meeting down at Cole's and she got and kind of firestorm roared through with the pace that no one had ever witnessed or really forseeing. I think thirty nine in the afternoon. Fire. It was something that could not be stopped our homes going there. This is happening right now. Twelve forty two in the afternoon. Smoke. And because it was sweeping through a populated area. Twenty six thousand people in valley was all about rescue and getting people out. And there was no attempt or Billy even start to do anything about it until it was hours into the fire. All became about evacuation before it ever became about putting it out. Absolutely. And evacuation from home was really for many people only the beginning of the ordeal and the horror in meters away. Stuck on this road? People's houses and can wind is bringing it over. Right. This is I wonder what they're gonna do. There's one main highway in and out of paradise one-star way on my way out right now, everything is on fire, and it was choked with people escaping, but also fire closing on both sides of highway as people talked about and photographed and recorded at the time. This far. What's up with the lines? People told me about getting into their cars and the car died and the fire is closing in. And they can see the fire, and they can see neighbor's homes on fire, and suddenly they have no way out window is so hot can even touch the window right now. One woman described going by a motor home that had pulled off and was fully engulfed in flames and the traffic head of them stopped with her vehicle right next to this burning motorhome, and they couldn't get out and the heat was coming through the glass of their car from the blazing motorhome and it felt like our she said, but it was probably a couple minutes able they were able to get past. I guess what? We're not going to catch on fire. Okay. We're going to stay away from it. Won't be just fine. Hey, we're doing. All right. Another guy told me they had gotten the signal that it was closing in. When they started hearing, propane tanks exploding and neighborhood around them. So they ran from their home. This was a guy who didn't own a car. So they went onto the road on foot. There was a young pregnant woman and eight people together and a guy in a pickup truck just pulled up next to them and scream get in the back, and they held in and made it down. Oh shit. Treat. It's on fire. There. Oh my God. Shirley's praying right now. There was just one story after another that was impossible to forget. Skipped. By the time. I drove up skyline. It had been forty eight hours since that mass escape and the smoke was intensely thick still the ash was still falling from the sky and ask coded everything that had been airborne still laying down a layer of. The power lines in power poles were down across portions of the road. And then the goals. That had burned to the middle frames and glass and melted things everywhere. And it was impossible for me, not to just stop sometimes and look at a scene and drying. Imagine what had unfolded there when you would go by the school bus. And and it was you know, completely gutted by flame. What had happened there who had been in that? And where did they go and how did they get out Kirk? How many people do we know to have died in this fire at this point as we're talking on Sunday afternoon Twenty-three, it's still a running tally. So we don't know where it's gonna end up. But based on where we are it looks like it will be the third most deadly in lives lost. But most destruc-. Active in terms of homes and businesses and communities destroyed, and that's because this fire. It sounds like behaved in a way that despite the history of wildfires in California was some how unlike anything before it, the general nature of fires. They don't burn generally every single thing they seek out the fuels that are handy in a way and drawn toward those. But if there's a new normal that is feared it's the kind of Firelight campfire that is sort of monolithic in sweeping slates. And that's really raised a lot of anxiety about what the future might hold. So these fires burn everything. They don't hop around. They don't skip a tree or a house they consume everything there were huge stretches of that very pattern in paradise. It didn't seem to leave anything standing or its pace and it's heat. And it's for us today was such that it didn't pick and choose and it just swept so more or less but town of paradise was destroyed this weekend. That is about what you have to say, the cumulative impact is really going to be either the end of that community or a moment to think about rebuilding it entirely. There was very little that looked like well, here's a place where you can kind of start over and go back sumptious, by survivors. And former residents is that the place has gone and that they have nothing left to go back to their. Steve. Ventura County fire department, and I'm the public information officer for. It's team for. And how has the federal government responded to the campfire and to what's happening right now in California with the most current numbers? The federal government has responded as it always has for emergencies of this sort of signed to the fire right now thirty to twenty three the personnel and the coordination and the promise of funding has been there. There's more than seven thousand firefighters out on the fire lines still. But many of those assumptions were sort of upended on Saturday. President Trump is responding to the fires burning in California right now. When President Trump tweeted that there's no reason for these massive deadly and costly forest. Fires in California. There were mismanagement issues of the forests in play in California. Billions of dollars are giving each year with so many lives lost all because of gross mismanagement of the forest remedy now or no more fed payments, and that really hit a raw nerve for people who were still reeling from it that statement was idiot pick it was ill-timed, and it's in fearing that the federal response or the future response was somehow in doubt. It's a gross exaggeration to say Trump's declare war on California, governor elect Gavin Newsom immediately in vehemently denounced, the president's tweed. He said that this is not a time for partisanship. So clearly interpreted the president's statement as a politically driven rather than land management or environmental policy statement and presumably politically driven at a democratically dominated state that is certainly how you would read Gavin's statement. And President Trump is suggesting that these fires are the fault of mismanagement. By the state of California. Is that people think he's saying that appears to be the suggestion that the state of California was somehow at fault in managing those lands. But the fact is that the vast majority of forest lands in California like most of the west are federal the community of paradise itself. Really backs up to a national forest, and those are not state policies at all the US force service defines and manages those lands for better or worse. And there are definitely people who believe federal forest management has not been exactly what it should be. Well, and also how much of this is far as we understand. It does have to do with forest management versus say climate change. That's a hard mix to try and parse out, sir. Certainly there are many areas in the west and in California where decades of fire suppression. When a fire starts in a forest try and put it out that's been the eagles in the mantra since the smoky days, and there's also a lot less logging in those areas that people have said reduces who the fuel load that can burn a fire. So it may be that it kind of comes from both sides, if there's less healthy at a time when the environment around it is also changing and drying, and whatever it gets hit from both sides, so fire suppression combined with less logging may leave these forests primed for fires and climate change may do the rest in that sense. The president has a point about the need to manage these forests. But in fact. It sounds like you're saying Kirk that that's really the job of his own federal government more than the state of California that he's just threatened to withhold funds from well. I if it comes back down to who owns the land then. Yeah, you can only hold the state of California responsible for what is responsible for and like most western states. The federal government is a giant presence on the land. Whether it's in for service, or bureau of land management were fishing wildlife. It's a huge cumulative force that either does its job well or. Kirk as we speak on Sunday afternoon. The campfire which destroyed so much of paradise is just one of the three fires that are still burning in California. Right. The camp fire became focus, and in the huge numbers of homes and businesses destroyed and lives lost that sort of focal point of the fires. But it's really a fire moment and totally catastrophic. And really, I guess coincidental way. I mean environmental forces are always interconnected, but the campfire began early in the morning on Thursday and seven hours later, the Wolsey fire began in southern California. And in a state where something like that is coming from both ends at you starting in the same day. It's a collective trauma rather than you know, one big bad disaster. Ever since the officials in California started using this freeze new normal. I've struggled tonners. Jan how anyone could possibly embrace that concept that at any moment in California matter what season of the year. It is your home your neighbor's home, your town hall, your post office could just be destroyed by fire as if that is somehow normal at all I think it's it's yeah. It's it's an impossible thing to get your your head around. It's like living in the present. We all say we wanna do it. But. It's very difficult to do. And it's impossible and probably not good for your mental health to walk around. All the time thinking that your town your home, your community is on the sword's edge or whatever. So I think there's a lot of natural human denial that there is a new normal. It's it's much easier to an tempting to want to look back and say that. Things will look more like they have in the past and we have dealt with bad things in the past. And we're tough and. So how a new normal? Sinks into ordinary people. I think the tough road of its own that hasn't gotten there yet. Thank you. Very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. By Sunday night, the campfire had matched the deadliest in California history with twenty nine fatalities seven of the victims in the town of paradise died in their vehicles. We'll be back. The way. Humans digest information is changing and innovating the daily now brings traditional newspaper reporting tear ears every morning at Cole Haan. We've turned a century's worth of timeless footwear inside out for the same reason. Most shoes use technology that was around long before the term podcast even existed. But we think everyone deserves shoe. That's thoughtfully crafted to stand up to the way, we live today. Don't you honoring heritage is important focusing on the future is vital Cole Haan never stand. Still. Here's what else you need to joining us now from Naples, Florida. Governor Scott who thought he want election to the Senate Tuesday night, Florida has begun the first full state wide recount of votes in its history after it was from Tuesday's midterms left the elections for governor and US Senate too close to call. In the Senate race Republican. Rick Scott's lead over the democratic incumbent Bill has slipped to twelve thousand six hundred folks where we had eight people vote Chuck Schumer spent over fifty million dollars trying to beat me. But we won in the governor's race. Andrew gillum. The democrat is behind about thirty three thousand votes and has retracted his earlier concession to his Republican opponent. Rhonda Santa's I am replacing my words of concession within uncompromised in unapologetic call that we'd count every single vote in the Georgia governor's choice. Democrats DC Abrahams and Republican Ryan camp. There is still new declared with the vote's expected to be counted until tomorrow. The times is reporting that last year top Saudi intelligence officials close to the crown prince explored the possibility of using private companies to assassinate Iran enemies of the kingdom coming months before the killing of the journalist Jamal kashogi, those talks indicate that Saudi officials have considered assassinations as a political tool since the beginning of crown prince Mohammad bin Solomon's reign as he was first consolidating power. That's it for the deal. I'm michael. See you tomorrow. The daily is supported by Cole Haan as a fellow innovator. Cole Haan is constantly pushing the limits and bringing modern technology to classic footwear, by reimagining the way, we think about shoes to take advantage of today's special offer. Visit Cole Haan dot com slash the daily.

California paradise Kirk Johnson Cole Haan federal government president New York Times Michael Barbaro President Trump US Senate Cole Ventura County fire department Governor Scott Andrew gillum Sierra Nevada Naples Sacramento US eagles
Episode 10  Psychological Hurdles to Thriving

Lifecare Affordability Planning

24:49 min | 1 year ago

Episode 10 Psychological Hurdles to Thriving

"In the twenty plus years of helping people plan for the cost of retirement and long-term healthcare we identified one consistent theme among families and caregivers. People don't like to talk about money. Life Care. Affordability planning helps families who are facing long term health issues and increasing health related expenditures to make better informed financial decisions during a time when there are so many unanswered questions. It's time to face this topic ahead. On address. The emotional charge of discussing money and discover practical ways to bridge the gap between a long term health. Care Plan and your ability to paid for it. Hello and welcome to life care for planning with Tom. West and our vet read from signature estate an investment advisers to podcasts ago. Or so we talked about what it means to thrive when it comes to life care affordability planning today. I know that Tom and are going to be talking about the psychological hurdles when it comes to people thriving good morning. How are you guys morning? Eric Liu all right so so Tom. We're getting some psychology here. What are we what are we come ashore? Well today. What we're going to be leading our audience know thinking back in about that concept uptick thriving when professionals here Different ways the that that seniors message where they're coming from A. We thought it would be helpful from both the healthcare and a financial psychology standpoint to give our listeners some idea of of what some of the typical expressions of resistance to change. You know what they sound like and what we kind of think they really mean for different seniors in different situations at their in and I think by unpacking what these phrases sometimes. I'm sounding like we might be able to together explore some opportunities to be able to move forward and have seniors. Maybe become a little bit more self south aware and a little bit more accepting of help and I think probably the best the best way to jump in is to give you the first example one of the things things that we hear a lot in our life affordability conversations both in terms of when we're speaking in front of large groups or when we're an individual meetings is is when seniors either right out of the gate or as an expression of of resistance they will say the phrase listen. I JUST WANNA keep making my own decisions and we're going to talk a little bit about. I WANNA keep making my own decisions and and kind of what we think that that means part of a we've discovered discovered in our process is people say I want to keep making my own decisions. This is an expression of really a fear of losing independence of losing the ability to self direct of losing agency right in in in different things that might be coming and it's useful just to think about how do you get. How do you engage? How do you how do you get a senior to be able to feel heard when they use some resistance language like I want to keep making my own decisions and it Kinda put that to to our vet when when you hear From the senior housing using in healthcare side of things people saying listen. I I WANNA make my own decisions. I want to self direct. Tell me a little bit about how professionals in senior housing in healthcare hear that and react to it right because it really. It's an objection but sometimes it's okay for the person to feel that outweigh you just have to surround them with the choices of knowing that they're not something's not being taken away their independence is being taken away so an example would-be like yes. We agree that it would be great for you to keep making your own decisions. But how about we consider that if something changes and you're not able to make your decisions then what so. It's really about flipping. So maybe I WANNA be able to make the decisions as long as I'm able two or I want to be able to make my own decisions. As long as they continue to reflect what I want so work with them to change the phrase a little bit and and expand upon the circumstances where air making their own decisions might not be the best choice and you. He said something that was important. which was can you take a an objection like I want to keep making my own decisions and shift the framework work that were collectively understanding about that too? Why don't we agree on? What are the most important things? What are the values that are most important Jordan? What are the ways that you want choices in the future to express who you are and how you interact with your family your friends? The world in general enroll and what we've found is by being able to say. Listen I want my decisions. Under all circumstances to take care of my spouse I right and to hold fast on expressions of legacy which is the way that we're using money and wealth to express love and affection to future generations. We WanNa make sure that those priorities are always embedded in any decisions. That are made in even if if I can't make them myself. I'm looking for some assurance that in the event that there are some transitions that those important things are always held sacrosanct linked if if somebody needs to share the baton and decision making down the road a that whole concept Eric I think a lot of times unlocks the resistance. That's usually associated with the fear of losing independents who and brings people a little bit closer to the space that maybe they can accept that maybe things do do change. And as long as people's priorities remain articulated and recognized. We sometimes can bring families a little bit closer to a self awareness into accepting Perhaps some help that they might need and this could be as simple as a food choice. Right doesn't have to be something so big and lofty and from the years of working and senior housing and healthcare. And this is why I like this topic because I feel like this topic addresses so many different audiences dances right like the people that are actually making decisions about what's going on. In their healthcare you know and the senior housing and healthcare professionals that are hearing these objections and But it could simply be food choice like someone likes their specific ethnic food type in the idea of leaving home and going somewhere else to them means. I'm losing my independence of eating. I want because I have to eat. What's on their menu right we can? Everybody can overcome that solutions for that right. I remember Bert. When when I had a conversation about My kids with my wife within the last week and we were we were laughing a little bit about my Assan being somebody that even since he was a little kid. He's like I'm going to do this myself. Yeah Okay and you know I was. I was laughing at his expense and my wife looked at me and she says well well you know. That's you know you you you. You don't like anybody telling you what to do ever right under any circumstance and and this this idea of I wanNA keep he making my own decisions. You know rings especially true to me where we're self directing and like I'm not really interested in your. You know your suggestions about what I WANNA to do. Is I'm going to be self directing. I can imagine that this I wanNA keep making my own. Decisions is the most likely way that I'm going to expel Express resistance to change as as I get older and I might have some transitions right. I think that the idea of what are the things that are important to you. Tom And you get get to direct the definition of what's important rather you're still in control of of the establishment of priorities. When we built out some of this language? You know I I was trying to reflect internally. What are the kinds of things that people might say to me? That would make the give me the best ability ability to be able to overcome that resistance internally. All right Tom something else that seems to come up quite often is people just really really don't know where to start right and so it goes back to the idea that they're in the middle of having to make all these decisions and maybe this is new to them and so rather then make a decision at all. They just was like yeah. I don't know where to start so I'm not GONNA do anything. Now what do you think what do you think. The the the psychology behind that really is I think the hurdle is the version to the complexity of it all. There's so much coming at you that you're trying to digest. It's too complex. And so no you have to get over the psychological hurdle of hungering down and not doing anything like I don't know where to start so I'm not gonNA do anything else. Remember what we know about a brain brain function under stress. The idea that you know your bandwidth to be able to handle new incoming information gets gets is compromised quite a bit and this this aversion to complexity maybe in a less stressful situation might not exist. But when I'm when I'm totally focused on taking care of somebody that I love and what's going to happen I might really only be able to handle one new thing to think about as compared to you know. What about the diagnosis? What about the money? What about the my relationship with this person? What about communicating with the family minute by the way keeping track of ten medicines at once Korea? Right right right right absolutely so I think you hit it on the head the aversion to complexity so so what do you think howdy howdy. Eddie break that down tell me what senior housing healthcare people do to say on where to start. What does a typical response while? It's funny like from my senior housing care years ears and from doing the life care for ability plans that we've done one of the things I am constantly telling clients and prospects is you just got to take one step at a time and don't try to digest it all at once and then back to the personal time same thing when my mom was sick like I just had to tell myself one topic at at a time one step at a time and then it's not so complex and it becomes a solvable problem. That's right in front of you right You know you didn't elephant one bite at the time and I think that sometimes celebrating in encouraging any action is a way that professionals and family early can be supportive like listen. You know what you tried to tackle a small piece of one part of the problem today. Now is the first step and we need to celebrate and applaud you for being able to step up and do that. It could be as simple as moving right right or it could be as simple as just you know meddling choice about a piece of inventory that you gotta get rid of. I don't know the stuff so I'm not going to do anything I want to move or I'm ready to move or someone's you know whatever but I don't know what to do with China right right I think so. So and you know we we know in previous podcast. We talk about I've talked a little bit about inventory management with stuff that Besson I inherited when when my inlaws died and it took a while I think for us to develop the awareness that you know. We really don't necessarily certainly need all this stuff. And when I was thinking about awareness and self-awareness I was thinking about another psychological hurdle is what happens when people you don't feel defensive instead like I. I still make good decisions. You know the idea of you. I I shouldn't be I shouldn't have to share decision making because because I'm still I'm still capable and in by going down this past somehow. I'm admitting something about myself that maybe I'm not ready to. So so how do you go about you know talking about talking through objections make decisions that is shown as resistance to An offer for help I think. Part of that is the support system right so when when people aren't aware that they're not making your decisions they're gonNA think they're making good decisions right so the idea that you have a support system so maybe when you are more where you can say when I get to the point that I may not be making the best decisions. I've got people around me to help make sure I'm doing the right thing. And that can go all over the place. That could be timing of medication. It could be choices of eating. It could be driving right and I think let's remember that you know some of the stuff that we've talked about You know at length is the impact of dementia one. One of the realities of dementia is a lack of awareness about your ability to make decisions. Like I I I have no capacity to recognize that maybe I'm not firing firing on all cylinders so I think that the idea of of investing in your support system on personal and professional having articulated particularly these new things that that are most important to you a that is I think the way that you unpacked that resistance to a lack of Self Alpha awareness like making sure that even if the person isn't self aware that the support system is aware of what constitutes a good decision. Getting back up to the things that are most important. Well that's we've talked a lot with clients about the AARP safe driving right right. That's a great example of good driver. Yeah Yeah I'm still a driver I could drive but that's when the support system tells you when you're at risk right right if it's right. I think it's good so tell tell me a little bit about. What do you think that when you hear? Listen I'm not GonNa do anything right now. I'm GonNa do something when I see the first sign nine decline with me or with a family member. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA. I'm not gonNA do anything now. I'M GONNA wait till a C- a wheel a little wobbly Krasny Sistani Grozny Right right right. It's the I don't really want to deal with what's happening Sam's GonNa put my fingers in my ear head in the sand and procrastinate making any decision right and that's so that's a related the self-awareness which makes sort of a logical extension. But but I'll do. I'll do something when I see the first first sign of decline. How do you engage somebody that expressing that way? Then you need to go back to the idea of surrounding yourself with people people that are going to be able to make sure you're safe and make sure you're making the right decisions and be proactive. Help you help you. See that being proactive. Active is actually better for you right and not waiting for the disaster or the crash but to be back to the driving analogy but to be proactive PROACTIV. Take the AARP test and they during those test they give you skills and things that you can do to be proactive and things that you can do right now just in case something might happen and what would what would rings to me out of what you said. There was the in case something happens right. I think that if if when somebody's expressing expressing I'll do something when I see the first signs of decline. At least there's a window to communicate to that person that may be something might change change and if we can acknowledge that maybe something might change. Well maybe we WANNA take a particular action before options are taken away Eh. Right given that things might change. And that's the language in the psychology to pursue To through that one thing that that when meme was considering you know do something when I see the first signs of decline you can roll that up into into a bigger objection or a bigger psychological hurdle when somebody it just says as none of that's really GonNa Happen to me all all my parents and everybody in. My family died of a heart attack peacefully in their sleep at age seventy-five and and you know I I know myself and that just isn't going to happen to me being over confident. That's right being overconfident. Bats right. I've had no experience with a failure in health. Therefore it's it's unreal Damian and where do you go for that kind of an objection to unpack that kind of a hurdle. Yeah I think it also goes back to the planning and the idea that none of us know what the future holds and so this is the perfect perfect example of why the life care for it. Ability plan gets people opening up about things they normally wouldn't talk about because you're not committing any decision in this process. You're just talking about the what ifs. So if you go with the idea that we don't really know what's going to happen and so let's be realistic mystic about potential options that might present themselves down the road if something happens and then that way. You're that whole idea being overconfident confident. Nothing's going to happen to me. It's hypothetical and then people will actually open up and have that conversation because it's not really about what's really happening to you right in my experiences. This is Ben. You know the idea of externalizing that meaning right you know nobody that needed long term care help for five years. Thought it was going to happen. The one hundred percent of people that need help for super long period of time zero of them said like. Oh Yeah. That's good to be me right before it started. I've always found that that that kind of an approach actually doesn't work really well. Yeah the idea is talking about other people. I'm talking about me so so when I tried to approach folks it's it's trying to find things in their own life story that have surprised them that that hit them sideways. Wayside had to react that they had to make different decisions. And what I try to do is is. I tried to look forward in our imagination. Somebody's nobody's life about you know this might be just another chapter in the same story in there might be something like when you lost your job or when win. Your kid had the illness or when you don't so to. We might be surprised in the future and we might have to make good decisions. And and based on what you've learned in the past when you were surprised so too you can make good decisions in the future in the ideas just allowing for we really don't know exactly what the future holds right and expressing some empathy with if we knew how long somebody was going to live right now. If we knew how much help they were going to need right now. This would all be pretty academic but as as as as as people who are living through all the different from chapters of their life. How have you dealt with uncertainty and surprise in we as professionals? How can you plum some of that personal history history to project forward? What kind of lessons in the past have you learned that might be applied to the next time? You're you're you're surprised right right and even though eat people don't always want to talk about what happened to other people because they don't relate when you save things like have you ever had a friend or known someone that that has had dementia or have surgery. That went wrong and let them start talking about that story about somebody else that it becomes their restoring it becomes their story and then it's not you lecturing a what may happen. It's them telling you what happened to somebody else. And so it's become the little bit more tangible for them right in in allows like with everything that we learned about person centered care allows us as professionals to go to where they A. R. as compared to try to pull them to where you want them to be right and I think that that type of an approach can make some significant difference in in being able to to to establish trust and to be able to embrace the priorities. The the client is trying to express and for me to just to kind of wrap up what we're talking about today. It's important to know that there are psychological hurdles that people are thinking that may not come out of their mouth right so we said well. What if a person says this would if someone says I'll be fine. This is not gonna a happy to me or what if someone says I don't know where to start. The percentage of people that actually say those words in the Senate of people that actually think those words right. There's a lot more people thinking saying it so as the professionals and senior housing in healthcare we need to be more aware of what these people are trying to overcome. I'm as they're asking us for advice at the same time John. My closing thought is what's remember how this life care. Affordability conversation really started when seniors seniors. That are facing some changes in health will say something like. I can't afford it right. That that means a whole bunch of different things. That doesn't necessarily early. Mean they can't afford it. It might be just an objection that really. We have to plum a little bit more of these psychological hurdles to figure out what is keeping somebody nobody from moving forward to accept the help that they need and what our mission for. Today's podcast was to go a little bit beyond and and try to zero in on what might be the root cause of some of these expressions of resistance. So thank you very much. Everybody for for listening Eric that. That's that's our ideas for today. Yeah Tom an RV. This was fantastic. This is definitely one of those podcasts. At people should go back and listen to again because there was just so much stuff to chew on and think about and and really decipher and of questions about so that leads me to my question if they do have questions about this and they want to reach out to you. How do they do that? Well you know. Afford life. Care Dot Com we've got particular pathways for families for professionals both financial legal professionals as well as senior your housing and healthcare professionals and We invite you to go to the website in find your path. Find out what the PATS looked like. But we've built our website experience in such a way that that folks that are looking for more prompts and more information along these lines would have it at their fingertips fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. Today I take care I am. Thank you for joining us today on the life care affordability planning podcast with Tom. And our vet. If you've not subscribe to the podcast yet please. Click the subscribe now button below this way. When Tom and our bet come might with a new podcast it'll show up directly on? You're listening device. This will make it much easier to share these podcasts. With your friends and family and think about these questions thinking about these things that they talked about today. The hurdles hurdles is there somebody in your life that you know that you need to share this podcast with so they can start to break down these things and really start to think about them with their own family. Maybe they have some parents that are and a throw on some of these objections up. They need to be able to help. Walk them through that Share it with them. That'd be great again. Thanks for listening today for everyone at life care for it ability. Planning this Kirk Johnson. Reminding you to live your best day every day. And we'll see you next. Time is an opinions provided here and are those of the individual speakers all content is informational only and is not intended to be an endorsement or recommendation of any particular investment strategy. Or other course of action. Consult your tax legal and financial professions concerning your specific situation securities offered through Royal Alliance Societas INC member FINRA slash. SIPC advisory services offered through SA LLC Royal Alliance Societas Inc is separately owned and other entities and or marketing names products x or services referenced. Here are independent of Royal Alliance associates. Inc left care. Affordability plan is a marketing name for. Sei a services related to evaluating the client's healthcare treatment plan are independent of an not endorsed by Royal Alliance Associates Inc..

Life Care Tom Eric Liu AARP Kirk Johnson Eric I SIPC Royal Alliance Societas INC Royal Alliance associates Royal Alliance Associates Inc Eddie Korea Besson China Damian Wayside Ben Senate Eric A. R.
#375  How To Wingman

Kinky Katie's World

59:55 min | 6 d ago

#375 How To Wingman

"Okay so let me understand this all in one evening. You had one friend when you were younger that you told to get drunk to pretend she was drunk to Get laid then. You had another one that you're feeding shellfish because you know it gets her horny so you can take advantage of her the same night the weekend has landed. All the exists now club strokes popes and pies of four hours off from the world man. I'm going to blow steamer on my head like a screaming. I'm going to cut shit to strangers all night. I'm going to lose the plot on that. Dance floor the free radicals inside me a freaking and tonight i'm chip travolta three popper. I'm going to never neverland with my chosen family man. We're going to get more than neil armstrong. And tonight you know the seventy three quick buck burn watched lucknow and now live from rule. Thirty four studio bringing you a girl that sometimes gets excited when a man squeals like a pain. Chiens your host. The one the only kinky katie. Hello hello and welcome to the show. This is kinky world number three seventy five. I'm your host can be katie with me as ours is my absent favor fresh coming back to mr. sc okay. let's go down. You're doing right okay. we're coming to you. Live from rule. Thirty four studios kiki radio dot com cast dot net. Fun show for you tonight. Okay newport pick which is not my usual and you're gonna say where did this come from come from these reports. Come out of her mouth before this lips. Bright uttered such things promises. We'll see we'll see we'll see you forget sometimes but we'll see. I do have a tendency to forget things sometimes but whatever sure yeah no anyway and we have a great brand new hits man for you so yes we'll be we'll get to the tits man this week. We did last week. Chur whatever care if you do if you got. If you have some good boob content would appreciate it like my week up a little cleavage. Some nivel maybe oh right yeah more nipple tattooing right i get it. Yeah there's there's a fan who is obsessed with katie getting hurt nipples tattooed obsessed. I mean so. I don't know we've talked about it before. Yeah we have. But you know it's coming to a crescendo. Where he's like overly excited about the entire process. Will you please please for all that is holy pleased tattoo. You're nevels but it's it's almost like the more you do it the more i'm gonna be like no no not gonna i wanted to really i did. I was gonna do it. I was totally cool at that. Look pretty after. I saw this one. Breast cancer upsetting basser. I'm like ooh alex early. Pretty i like that right. I would totally do it right now. Now you feel like. I'm not going to be pushed in anything i don't i don't like being pushed into well. Okay okay. i don't like it. When i know i'm being pushed right now. The main rhinos. What you mean. Because i didn't say it so i know what you mean though. Do you know how to do it. Sometimes you do okay think but you know well speaking of using your words shit i would. I went and saw bryan dewitt. Yesterday over at atomic tattoos in orlando at i got my willie done beeped. Tapped tattoo update. That's right now. So i have. I have enjoyed. It was dummy on my arm fit That says willie he edits. It's from it's attributed to kill cam. That's going to be coming out soon. The last movie that you shot the last year that i shot it was heavily relied on dummies. That's right awa. Particular dummy willy. Willy makes me do bad things. Sure sure willie does. She does okay. We got to see we got to visit with the. Shane are one of our one of our good friends in and fans shane and his wife tabby and the kids today. Nice lunch absolutely right set. That was nice to say. hi pal. just let him know. Bright somebody who is a fan of yours that we became friends with. That's right Out with them when it reason town. Don't get any ideas people out there. 'cause i have some people who like i just like that guy who's wants to finger Right your desire right. If you don't lead lead with that really if would waited for a face to face on that one you'd have been a lot better off. You know you had more chance. I'm just saying i just you know. Sometimes you can't go right out things kid now gonna sidestep just a little tad Gauche right work with me here. Something like that. Oh my goodness gracious. So i feel. I feel kinda bad for for the girls The were going to be attending the The photo shoot covered up like two weeks right. You were talking about doing a photo. Shoot a bunch of girls Because it sounded like fun. Yeah another halloween shoot. Yes were you all were gonna do costumes won former another rivarlry cha right. You know like halloween penelope okay. Yeah yeah so what happened. Well three of the girls are going through some shit right out through some shit one one girl. She just had ankle surgery the other girl. She's got a like cova da pneumonia Stomach disease and then another one. Her her daughter has has has kovin psyched. Fuck people sucks. Feel i feel bad okay. So does that mean. You're still having the shoot. Noah seattle idle. I'd sure i'm not sure how. The numbers dwindled. Appoint to where. You're not going to be able to do it. That kind of thing. no. I think we still do it. Even if there's like you know a couple of us. So why not. I know i don't know it just seems like it'd be more fun if you had an orgy of ten verses like two or three oh wait a lot more fun that way. Think i think no matter what would make it fun. Sounds like a good time sam. There's this there's this place on on will see internet. You can get pretty much. Anything enrolled thirty. Four is always in full of act but this person was complaining that they need to stop putting cute faces on vibrators. Okay why why query query this. Well 'cause they look like children's toys but they're they're there to stick up your garbage okay. What you're you're letting the child you know dictate your orgasm. That's all i ever. Who are they to say these. These toys are not intended for kids. These are adults. They clearly say adult clearly. Clearly it's marked sure like a dig. Obviously it's where people over eighteen not shaped like. Well if all this it's phallic looking i mean are we gonna like no longer allow banana sales. Really you have to keep bringing up the bananas. No i don't have to but it was a good a an appropriate fucking Example fit italic. People you could you could fuck it anna cucumber. How about that zucchini. But you're not. You're not supposed to stick fruits and vegetables up your coach. I know you're not supposed to your point. You make video and she goes figured doodle that car stuff and asa. Yes but i didn't. I do stupid things. So you don't have to figuring thing when i stack. Ginger used to ginger up my ass right. Yes had we done had to done did science. I didn't you know we don't believe what we read. Sometimes we have to find out what you feel like when there is a piece of ginger admiral i mean because who knows what your butthole can can sense what it can taste. Maybe just ginger is much. Maybe it's something like Salawah with some people that have that that gene flip that You know it tastes like soap out your ass like you'd be like ooh soap clean. We don't know that that wasn't the case. Well you know it's likely to go to the sushi. Joints pallet cleanser pickled. Ginger right. you could just you know it's like well. Then what if i wanted to keep a spring ginger down there for a long oral trips that i could cleanse my palate cop out popular mouth Papa back in you know go back go back to business. Puts him with savvy on the clinton okay okay. Spies isn't willing. You're willing seems like it goes. Oh oh we talked about it a long time ago. Let's just maybe think of it. 'cause there's probably have heard about this but we're talking about in the In the pre show the man giant. Are you know doctor made. Sometimes what they used to rebuild the inside walls of the coochie is a certain kind of fish skin. Okay really yes hall. He'll no no no. Actually it's like carpe. it's a carton It's like carpet salafia. One of those really. It's something that when you take the scales off the skills don't grow back because they said that this specific type of fish skin bonds. It's closest to human skin and bonds with human flesh and skin graphs and shit like that too for a. What does that feel. I prefer skin probably funny how you get the fish smell out of fish skin you know. Is there a method soak in soda ash overnight. Kind of thing. Maybe maybe lemon may make me ginger. Sure cook it in. Eleven to ej style. Nate right and then spread it out. Like you know like your -taining buckskin fisker rate. What are we talking about. The fish skin is odd again. Remember it's the make of regina a pussy in the inside the walls why the flex leave while it I wonder if some doctor at some point was like you know i fucked. That fish in that fish feels really good. When you fuck that fish so that has to be the fish that we use to make turn turn turn sausage into a non sausage. So that's the narwhal thought when they saw the horse on the On the shores is one day on fuck that. And that's when you get a unicorn. So what dr wall is. When in our wall is a horse like horses swimming. He's running away. You know how. I really imagine it though maginness. You're you're in the arctic right. You're on Little ice floats are floating by. There's a polar bear chasing horstedt escaped from the annual down. The road right. He was just hanging out and he escaped during the the winter storm. Right and he's running past the polar bear so the polar bear is he's gonna need that horse because the horse looks good. Go polar bear. Obviously right this is arvin right so the horse is running away from the polar bears so the horse is jumping from iceberg to iceberg. Like running away in the flow but the bear the bear but seabiscuit fucking swim. Remember this horses swim really well so the horses swimming away from the pair but the bears really fast then. The norwalk comes out of nowhere takes. The bear out saves the horses life and the horse falls in love with the nar wall and fucks him him or her. I don't know which one the boy and a girl is. But whichever way it is it could be either way in this story. Thank you know whatever you like like. The nar wall was the female and the horse was the male. Maybe it's like a ligers like if it's one way or the other you end up with a a animal or land you end up with a nar wall without a horn and legs. They can't walk or up with horse with a horn that can run around and shit but cannot swim blowhole. It's a loves yori really. It's like titanic but better with our wall and horse a horse running from polar bear. Wow that was that was pretty put together right. Why are we talking about our walls and horses now. I do remember at the moment. I don't. I don't remember i'm sorry. Okay you're supposed to be driving g good luck with that. Put out a pilot on earlier. I i'm looking at the wheel. So i'm okay okay. Well you know you gotta do this all the time anyway. There's a chick. She is selling to glitter bombs Now if you're familiar with glitter bombs that's when you get the sting in the mail opened up. It's exploded shirts. I fucking superstar everywhere right. Well this shades of the craft world herpes. The makes you die. Stripper salt strimmer salt. Mike i cut seasoning. Well my what you do like three of them covenant vile three pills right and you stick them up your crotch time release glitter bomb. Yeah like dicta- you stick it up your pussy up to two hours before the fun begins says the capsule dissolve releasing sparkly mixture of glitter and lube adding a magical elements to tinkerbell uses lube. And this is it. I just imagined like poof of baby powder like speaker speaker speaker speaking it. Sort of sound effect here chime chime chimes chimes little light because norwell unicorn right so but my friend boasted the most hilarious thing the other day and i damn near spit out my tea when i read it. She's like i want to go out of town with somebody sun and get nastier than black jelly bean it. Oh she doesn't like black jelly rings. Nasty okay yeah. 'cause black jelly beans or growth. I was obsessed chasing the orange cat off of the table. There for a second was not listening. Very stubborn knows my friends in each show that i used to work with. And she's fucking historical. I miss her so much anyway. Let's go to my favorite segment fan by any by. It might not be the porn. You would paint corn katie wine. It's time once again for so my point pick of the week is a little little different and i. I don't really remember all. I remember how i got there. All right. this one is from a twitter feed. Okay he goes by the name of at dolemite and he started. Follow me say. Checked it out and i was getting all sorts of turned on by looking at what he reposted from his speed right. It's mostly be gigantic horse. Cocked black men banging these tiny little petit white girls. Okay and bbc amazed girl. How do you take that in your. But i i was. I was impressed. Very impressed watching a girl. Take a or girl guy. Anybody take the over extreme toys size traffic cone. And or if i of your choice because some girls can go badgen nine same idea. Wow so you basically did black on blonde deviate. I did exit. They weren't all blonde but okay. We can pretend sure whatever you contrast thing you know. Yeah contrast but i was just so amazed at the size for doll. Oh my gosh. I mean they really don't like horse cox did you hear. Did you hear like in your head or like this. You're you're you're you know statue Quiver a little bit when it takes about something that really. Oh god no well my my throat started to construct this poor girl this choking on it this poor girl she. He had her by the back of the hair. You know back the next week old none. And he is cr- she's like as our arms at he's cramming it in her mouth and i'm thinking does she have no teeth because you looks like a fucking chipmunk with her cheeks and he's like go inside he's like hitting the back of her spine like internet like. Oh my god you've worked girl and she. It was like a black version of maxi's going a little max hardcore on them or no they weren't they weren't dressed like no no no longer be dead right now. If they were they were going. Max hardcore would be dead. Things would be ruptured on the inside so it was the teddy weapon. Oh my god. Be a felony. Naji being slapped in the face of that thing. No i don't wanna really wanna be slapped in the face with a small pene really guys. They take their fucking dick nicholas maximum. Slap it on tongue or smacking on your forehead. Okay you know what i mean. I'm really my forehead. That's not what i'm going for really you do it sometimes. Yeah yes okay. So imagine doing now with this gigantic like seven pound weiner but like if i were you know. Negative for wack against black. I mean it's hard to identify with what i'm saying like a giant what i go for giant dick i would. I be a size queen. I don't think i would be a size queen if i was today. I'm i'm looking at that my worthy for the fucker. You're going to put that no ship mike. Wallace seems to be enjoying it immensely. She took it in every hall right. When she got hit the sides you know she needs somebody who can fill her holes. She didn't look like she waller out. Okay well you know. There's not a look if you squeeze babies thing and you know whatever it is adam. I thing you do well. It's designed for that anyway. Whatever i mean. It's totally designed for that sort of wear and tear so you know but there's this zarian that's caesarian. We take a lot smaller than a baby not lease a full term baby anyway. Sort of god the fucking ahead on this guy's dog his as big as a newborn child. Okay okay could bad for good soccer huge. Well that's not. The size of a newborn child was a preemie. Okay like i said full-term deny said yes you specified that. Sometimes you get baby clumpy. He's a lot smaller. Come in all sizes. It's not your fault. If you have a baby clubby something happened. We your you know. Yeah it doesn't mean you're whatever. Hey whatever sometimes there's a little plot that's all what was that i don't know. Oh my god blow bubble is that is that a bean with arms. what is that coming up like lizard. Please tell me it's a lizard. Okay why is it up there that that is your that. Is your porn porn home for a week to week. Goodness gracious oh. There was a guy that sent me a dm that said i took a screen shot of it said that you know would like further my career if i was more sexual more sexual in what way way that doesn't make sense i'm opponent it did. It doesn't make sense but Being in less where does he where. Where does he seeing your posts from. You know facebook. Maybe i don't know but like he someplace where he's is he. Is he retarded. Is there something wrong with him. Are you flirting with with the disabled. Not that you're you you shouldn't you should flare with whoever you wanna flirt with your body your choice. Everybody deserves love. Look at chain gillis. He deserves love. i i like him. he's funny. I do sure i know saturday night. Live on my pretty. We're pretty easy on. The a lot of people will make either one of us laugh. Were pretty good like that. Typically i mean you really have to have some sort of a stylistic issue or something if neither one of us are having a good time seeing a show like that person that opened up for sometimes you see people who just a really bad at what they do and they're trying and you don't like give all the like even in my mind. I don't wanna shit dude. You know. I don't want to but he'd sucked you. How bad you see like a bad Standup show it is just you know. But it's you know it makes the better person right. After him seem a lot better. I can tell you that much. Well maybe that was the point okay. But he's already funny anyway. The guy from i side story. I know or my side story at an early could have been line. You know we're we're looking at the other two air talking about it was. I think it was today in today. About whatever happened club exit. We've talked about it a few times. Outgoing fetish parties at club exit. And that's what talking about last week. Well let's let's. Let's take a breath here club in hollywood florida. That was was there when we lived in south florida. There was a few faddish events at it and it's been closed. Apparently for a few years is what i was telling you and for the last couple years of its existence. There like two thousand eleven. Something like that. it was. It was wasn't all ages clubs so it was like a petco Hut stop shop. You know like ask. That's how when you read the old yelp reviews for it. It was like oh my god and considering the story the back story of the things that we've done in that club. But what are you gonna do wasn't like story was from that. Rousseau fucking play a few different things and yet and yet still turned into an all ages club. Which you know you know we weren't there then. Now what do we know now our fault but still no done the deer that okay but at that had happened where all the kids were partying anyway. My god katie side story. No you're just you're like blown away by that. What i was like a turned into an all ages clockwise like eighteen and up. I was like oh no. i know. Kids don't touch anything they i'm sure. They disinfect really. Come back. that club was in just for that. You know i know. And it really wasn't most of the time it wasn't like a cd. Clever anything in pretty good shape no was just had some funky ass stairs in it. Yeah it was right stairs right off of a railroad. Track my yeah. My friend was a bartender. There that i went to high school with middle school and high school with so back to the update of a club that nobody cared about then and nobody definitely cares about now in the fort. Lauderdale miami area. I don't care. I watched thousands. I thought it was interesting to me. And i wanted to talk about it. Sherman way back machine two thousand eight. Let's go to episode role thirty four when we come back. I wanna talk about Interesting vanish. And i also want to talk about some fucked up weird gross things from the internet so yum time. Bullet basically andris thinks neck. And i don't know why it's that it's kind of irrational fear air. What you say. Escalators is pretty irrational. No at least there is some danger in there. If you yeah you could. You could slip into get hurt yourself. Hangers and other irrational failures and shocking. The simple no. That's just that flash disk they're just fucking but well hang on by wait a minute. Let's say you're pool was filled with seawater through a giant expansion. Pipe goes up from underneath and a shark was sucked into the piping system grew up and raise there for several years. And it's like ship jaws new coming to sifi a small one comes out of the main drain and the nice little salt water swimming pool on the ship of the giant ship. Vegas ship in the world. The okay yeah so there you go. I found a reason. You could possibly. I guess have a or an alligator can. Haven't you can alligator in a in a poodle because it happens all the time down here or you're visiting a drug lord friend and fucking columbia somewhere and he literally has a full of sharks. Need you being on their. W tracy and tiger in the in the driver we tell you darling like like like back in the day when there was tom selleck and the whole hawaii show where he was nagging. Ti okay that one and and that whole thing Instead of the two dogs a doberman pinschers they had in that one. There's tigers and swimming with fucking chart. Senate so i guess in that way. It's completely possible and i would say like no on with the show. World cedeno hit radio dot com radio dot net. You'd get me on the twitter later at king. Katie radio can katie radio dot com be katie radio gmail.com fair also on youtube. Y'all so he can get us watches shenanigan and for now anyway. Yeah you know. We'll see how that last really really. It's only a matter of time clocks. Ticking floor we get inevitably band forever fared something stupid. We won't be for anything really well. Just because xyz will sits ruining sex's that's right it is slowly one at a time really because we know if what what but if party part had to be evil a sexual body part we know for sure it would be the dick. The cock would be the evil like it would be the Antagonised of the movie of the film of the of the whole situation. Why do you say that. Because it's always it's everybody's having fun until the check out you know. I mean we're all fine. No one really cares like jay. Maybe it's a problem but we're looking at now and you know this to be true able you. Can you can have a whole table full of of of ladies driven down nothing getting topless. Rub it all over each other wherever you are you. You might get away with that. That may happen depending on where you're at right but you have checkout and there's like a ninety percent chance somebody's gotta have a problem with you decker out well. What if there's like a whole table season. They're all distributed. Dan's dog you know revenue stuttered dude stuff with each other. She was put. She said about the women right. They have been charging off their jerk off. Crystals for twenty five years. And they're released releasing it in a crescendo. At dj poopie crayons debut event. The prophecy has been fulfilled. His time to come. I picture them all coming out like monk robes take it with their little crystals in there has a like putting it on a box of tissues. Didn't we to you release the witness through things that happened like it it. It is maybe lost it tears the fabric of space time and puts us into an alternate on the other side of the s curve because the whole ending of humanity. Right right no it wouldn they would survive but they would be reproducing. A hermaphroditic Things you know when they switch a sexes. That's what they would be calm because they've been snails right. This is the ultimate form of the jerko. Crystal this is it's all of it. It's true it's ultimate power when it gets to route base. there's only certain number of pieces. It was all part of the shard. It's little chunk of the shard. was desert. people other daughter jerk off crystallization. You didn't listen or watch last week and you deserve to know. Because the answer's right there right. Whatever you're you're listening to the on this right now. You can definitely go back in here. Jail crystal sets and low all. I think it's even in the beginning of the episode slacker. Blow your nose and look it up. I wanted to say hello to to a fan of ours. it's at sweet little cinecitta. I've talked about her before. Just say hello and thank. You said that we are the only thing. She looks forward to on monday or tuesday. Good and big hearts and kisses a reasonable person that listens at her leisure. That's right that's the way it should be. So yes so she. She is a fan of the show. She does she likes. It could thank you thank you. Yes i didn't away horror at bore girls a dr. I know we need to encourage the i. I like a heavier female fan. I'm to be honest with you. So i'm wearing baseball. Hats more to drop. Is that related to looking for other ladies wearing baseball caps. Sending lipsticks made a little bit of a tomboy. Is like a new book. Your writing part of your secret to catching women baseball caps boys. No but it's baseball cavs. Take it my friend late at a concert though right well. Actually she didn't get laid she did end up giving head. You got a lot of people late. i mean i. i've been with you. I've assisted. We've got people ate a lot but this is way before. I met you right right where we were at a alan jackson concert. Okay oh evian easy place at somebody laid i know. Hey you ought to. You ought to hey. Did you know that she wants to write and go. Well anyway. i was pretending drunk. Like what. I'm like telling your fucking shit face and i'm helping you. That's that's a weird I was always been like gross. Better our speed for pick it up dick at the club. Well pretend like you're drunk. She added helping. I mean within like thirty seconds. And then as i slip says you know three is right over. And they're like oh we got you got you. I looked at her say as he got. Sick gabby fine. They're going to help me to the bathroom. One of my check later right and they will you know. Guys get confused sometimes and they. How does that ever have at. How don't you understand when a girl doesn't want it and does when you hear about that that speed run to deduct strat that you debt fucking nineteen hundreds right. Yeah the nineteen hundred. The nineteen back in the nineteen hundred zero in that. I know you're like just pretend like you're shit faced bring like flies applies to shit. Honey here i was really heavy back then too because is still in high school and then so oh hey now no you're out of high school you're at least eighteen years old work with me here. Kid yeah as a senior school okay. You're there you go see crack. Dismiss that what do you think. You're fucking japanese anime. Now that you could just plant the rules of age she twenty. I don't know we pretend like we don't know how old they are half the time you have to. Because they are not drawn liked. They're fucking fifteen in anime. No they're not. they're not draw that way. So you know what are you gonna do. I thought she was twenty. What do you mean like fifteen. Oh my gosh. Her outfit is like pasties booty shorts. That's what i thought. She was of age. And look at this cartoon just to let you know it's hard to all right. So what the fuck was i say god damn it. I was saying something completely threw miano what you're talking about. You're you're in the middle talking about your friend that you got laid the by some underhanded forever dealings ten like you're fucked up so you can get rate. Oh but but we were will. We were Tailgating hardcore before and then they had me sneaking a bottle of jack. It between my boobs. So i had like squish like my kitties now and it was great every totally. Works this before after you lead men to believe that they were date. Well back then. I guess at dating word thinking they were date rape and her chief just fucked up but come to find out she was perfectly sober and just wanted some dick down. Yeah right that was. She had like some smoke cover of of you know. Why did you bang it while. I was drinking as katie right. I was fucking hammered. That's that's everybody's favorite excuse drunk okay. Sometimes i leaned. I dunno wanted to bagger. I did you see her. She was hot but she's comply wanted to put my dick all over. Sorry yeah she said okay. So i jumped tried in all three of us bathroom. Just saying you know like those seals in the war. Oh jisr outer like your throat or a fish roy to your mega exc fantastic right then a visual slurs right like i said and they wonder why why there's some kind of an issue with dudes understanding things. Well dudes are retarded. I'm not sticking up for guys. Because i've seen too many guys be just play dumb just only and going too far stuff like that like and this is even you know. I'm accepting of a lot of things. But what i'm saying is this is why you're not getting laid is the way you're going at. Somebody is not helping you. Yeah like that. But even that you know i you you know. Pretend you're drug khan really. What are we talking about here. That's alarming god. It's not really alarming. She was sober. He's allowed to make decisions she and she asked. She said she was getting depressed. Chumming the water for sharks sample sharks. I for a little bit of day. She didn't care if she wanted. A fucking douchebag just whatever. She wanted some action. She's like i am bored. Notice talking to me. I can't find a guy. And i'm like i got you. Well it's not like. I'm sure you didn't invent that maneuver either there. Lots of girls. I knew that would really overdue how much they had to drake really so they can make bad decisions and not consequences for. Yeah well see. It really sounds like a pretty good of method. You know. that's what you need to talk yourself into having sexual who you want to. But it words. I guess you know you know it did. I'm sure that's creepy. And i know creepy now. But i wouldn't have thought it was creepy at all. No because back. Then i mean nothing was like a big deal and no one was all uptight and got offended by everything a room things like all right mostly. I was younger and horn here. So yeah that's me to up to. I was back your teenager. you know. we're like twenty three years when you're when you're you know sixteen years old you don't you don't fucking care. Think about the thirty year old lady you it like. You're not thinking she's a pedophile. You're like hell no. She gave that footsie up. What are you talking about waiting to that. Posey gionta right right your yard again but but from from my perspective now i kind of go like lady. What do you do this a. Why don't you just wait a couple years dummy. I mean there's a fucking just you're right there. You're at the end flow. wait the to. I was at the time of the same thing that was when i was sixteen and obey my friends boss she dip. But then you're then you're like like grooming because you knew the person before they were eighteen lose-lose here to dead end path. Everyone's like jesus christ. I had to break it down. Well we'll know when that's the way when you hear a anime rules of student council president girl you find out somebody for some reason you thought it was older is sixteen. Did you have to walk away forever. I think you have to turn your back ago. This is not where that this is not. Hey if i ever see you in ten years fine. But i can't newt kinko near you. Sorry how what is life and you need to. That's pretty much the rule now right. Yeah i mean do you. Can't there is no other. There's no other option. You have to turn around and walk away forever. you can't go back in. and even when she's nineteen. Kazan will talking to her when she was sixteen. Maybe they have a point to. You're talking to a sixteen year old dummy anyway due to stephen. I'm not sticking up for him. I've seen. I've seen too many stupid things right in front of me mostly to not get laid. Just talk themselves out of ass one way or another. You've seen it too. Yeah you like like your friend. The just wanted to get laid and had to pretend she was dropped laid. There's another friend of mine. I'm jealous of her. She has this allergy. That i would not mind having especially living in florida if she eats shellfish. Oh yeah you were telling them and the he gets the better she gets horny and she gets high right vang. Yeah she is she can give. I mean she's like it's like a mile role for her ear. Yes really well. We found we found this out which cocktail maybe sherve cocktail shrimp cocktail. Hey i got. I got some bald trip right here. That king crab spiny down. It's hard to take of king crab as sensual in any way you know. They're so i will see you could just take his lightly dragged down naked by okay. Still pretty sharp for like i okay. Some people would be into it. You do have a point. That's why we didn't find that out until he went to the keys. Godly marks probably ever her problem. She gets she gets off like watching. fucking oh deadliest catch really now but that would be what happens if she has l like an overload of shellfish as she really just blast off or does she di di fine line between death and ultimate orgasm here. You have to come close to death. I i don't know you know this person. This person close to death like like fuck fuck auto expiation running. Don't use your big words can't impose stick with small ones cat. Dog had kind of a thing about what i want to know is. Let's say she you you know normally if she has like a half a dozen jumbo shrimp like a nice fat jumbo shrimp okay. But then she she goes to hawaii someday and get some fucking giant asian. Prawn you know like the size of a lobster like cheat six of those. Is she going to overdose. Die or just bust a better. Not than she has ever busted before she gonna bust super shellfish. Not well we didn't we. I don't think we had enough to overdose her. But i didn't know how much i don't know. If she either of these questions. We did feeder shellfish. She had like a soft shell crab sandwich. Thank appealing shrimp as she was. Like revved up. Okay so let me understand this all in one evening. You had one friend when you were younger that you told to get drunk to pretend she was drunk to Get laid then. You had another one that you're feeding shellfish because you know it gets are harney so you can take advantage of her the same. This was this like really going through like a rape pays or actually but you were getting lucky in any of this you were just helping they self and self inflicted. What are you gonna do. You can't stop somebody from having fun of friends. What are you talking. Did they asked me to do it. I know how it is. I'm not. I mean i invite a friend into the keys. I'm not gonna tell her what you can or can't eat a rob fucking force feeder like goose lobster. You know a lot of the people that we ran into when we were out all the time really would use hanging out with us as an excuse to do fucked up shit they really would look and you could tell that data. That's why they hung around us when they did is because they always wanted to like well. It was hanging around with with katie. And you know it just seems normal to you know nor wall and a horse come and searches out really had to leave a mark at so but that's like a perfect example of that where both of them were. Hey i wanna get laid katie. How does this happen. And the other one you know i wanna get laid. Katie houses happen. Don't you that shellfish thing. Can we could hear kind feed you like shrimping. It's a different thing is really. It's just feeding this girl shrimp now but like the whole time we were there it was fucking. It was fucking great. 'cause we would laugh about it because we go out to lunch. Go out to dinner. We go to breakfast. And she'd like she would purposely order shellfish just fucking. It was fun. bright is fine. I wish i had that affliction until you died of animal access. You didn't have your your epi pen. That's nick you'd have to run over to the kid he's allergic to peanuts. Fuck you kidding. Look cam shot waggin cake. You occurred guy. Okay what can. I don't know cupido lady you get swollen. She gets tourney. This isn't going to work all right. Let's go to your favorite segment boobs in and on the news. It's time once again for. Hit this tits. Man is a young lady that i have had the pleasure of meeting at At several important conventions and dirty little things and stuff like that. Her name is jia. Love your at the check with the red tattoos. No that's g nova. Get confused this qian lover out. You probably don't remember. But i bring it up again. We were talking you love. Is she the one who loves artifacts. She owns a restaurant in the area. No she's a fetish model. Okay well there is a g love last name is love anyway. She's a fetish model. She also does movies cheetahs the female wrestling like she wrestles wrestling connection right. And she's got very large really. Yes and they're very very nice. Choice to rascal. Skin surely does anyway. So she super sweet. She got really nice cities. You can get her on instagram. Cuban queen g love she's g love dot com. I mean yeah g you love dot com. And i also. I have her facebook. It's kinky cuban queens if you want check this out you should and drop her line teller the kinky gabe says hi man so yes she does some fun stuff right she does. I'll have to check her up long long time ago. There was We've talked about the goat. See before right right right. Yes soon if you don't know what to go see is it's an early rick role pretty much you would click on it at on on a link that someone would send you and when you went through the picture of guy bending over spreading his asshole apart as wide as he can and it's pretty pretty pretty wide aggressive its aggressive very associate is older not old old but not young right right. Well guess what would we find found similar you. Someone found the some of who it is who he is. Who is go to you is not even alive. Do is posting. He's still playing anal stretching gymnastics circus. But the fuck or how. How come he is not more popular. You know he. Apparently he is in this morning in his own. Little section of of you know being able to do shit like that. His name is kirk johnson. Kirk johnson kirk johnson. Johnson is guilty. Kurt johnson curry was kurd. His name kirk johnson. His name kurt johnson. So yeah i think that's. That's that's kinda strange. Goaty the bud stretching goats. Yeah right then. And maybe think of mr hands. Mr hans definitely dead missed. Oh he's definitely. But mr hands steve stead was. He's wow this is dark anyway. This guy is getting it right. This guy used to him in a bunch of buddies. They weren't to this special farm special and they would like fuck with all the animals. Yeah him like three of his buddies they walk with. What do you mean get wasted. And they would go fuck with all of while the animal actually with or just like t's column names. Your hair looks funny. you stink. You just sit on the floor. What an animal got. No no no well he. Mr hans died when they had one of you know his buddies they fucking horse got fucked to death by eight right. If you've ever wondered if a horse could fuck you to death you have confirmation. Yes and they were. They were filming where thing. Yeah no i. I saw it right is i've i've seen the video because it was. It was everywhere. A commodity year can out. You know it's like well. This is back in the nineties right. So you were there with your fucking eight millimeter. You know literally really away as you're filming your buddy get railed by this horse cock and you see your brady buddy collapsed and then you take that heat is and then you actually develop that fucking like we you know. I don't know. I don't know if i could do that. They felt like one of the daily but they made a movie about it. Maybe i could i actually. Yeah because at that point. He's my buddy and they were both having fun. Bang and horses. They're having a good old time with it and filming it and they had done to series four. That's what i'm saying. So this was. This was something this was like. Their hobby here was horrible and they train one of the ponies suck dick Does not. I don't think i would want to trust the pony anywhere near my leg or my balls. That sounds pretty not a good idea. Is it mayor. Does that not definitely not sounds like a good idea. Now right not sound like a good idea. sure okay. So how did they walk away with dicks. I don't know course by horses blake day. Take a little devils at you when they feel like it. Well maybe that's what they're into. You could lose your dick like like just the thrill i have no idea but they would all give all do gross things with anyway. He died course rate takes. So there's a there's a fetish that's becoming more popular again. I mean it's always been out there but now more people are are making videos of it and more people are watching either. For the funder for the faulk doesn't matter but the cake farting fetish really Now for those of you don't know what cake farting is. This is pretty much self explanatory. This is when women on cakes addad. You guys had some highly skilled and trained cakes that you taught how to fart you know. I know self explanatory addicted one side of the layer so when it happens when girl cuts cheese on the cake. That's she fucking farts on the cake and then like sits and stuff and then keeps farting in the icing and shit and sometimes they get naked. Roll around ninety soon. Whatever but but it's always it's farting on cakes on some people. Some people are into like the like a girl on a cake and then they'll eat it so they're like Verka and then there's like there's other ones where we just like the idea of. Ibm we've seen a lot of people sitting on cakes. That's a that's a definite thing. Oh yeah no. I i have. I sat on upon. Okay no i filmed you do it. I know right. And i rubbed it all my task to sure so. Yeah that was one of the videos and that would also we. We know were trying to do one of those like Porn scarves out of the mouth. Lilo la la la la land anyway. Kirk crutch right. Well that's what we did pussy but we didn't have one of those one of those Scarfing so we took a vendetta and put not in it. oh my god and cramped a mutt. My kuch those were the dry foot now is not fun. Out retrospect we should have put him all inside of a condom like stuffed a condom full and then shoved the condom up. You're taught and fished it out later. Dude out like butter. I thought of an engineering a solution to that problem afterwards. You're getting a little rope. Bernie you know you gotta try to do it. It's key what you're pulling out a scarf bandanna tied into not actually several scarves tied into not shoved up your girls crotch or your man's ass or your girls ass. Whatever is that you want to take a firm grip and yank it really fucking hard. It is really key. 'cause you're not gonna be able to pull about otherwise you really gotta give them a a good solid hard tug down to that you are going to someone is gonna do. People do shit that we told them to do. Sit don't tell them not to do it. Just don't do it. Okay but the rule of the internet is if i tell them if i tell him not to do it though there. That's what i'm saying. I'm reverse psychology. Listen you're you're underestimating. Who they don't do what i say they do what i say not to do. I told them you know you're gonna try it. Let me know how that happened. How that works out for you. I fucking cupcake in. The mail farted on this for you. I bet your twitter bedia. Dsm couple Would be totally into that. That would be a good suggestion for some people. Fucking tame yet okay. How many scarves did you shove up there. Oh i'm stinking cake farting so i'll dob talking about grip. It and rip in a thirty five scarves tied in the non shoved up a dude's but does she could probably go to the hardware store and get a spool cramming in their sideways like a poll. And just like like. You're like you're one of those old style. Musket guns you know. You gotta like pack out boop boop and you dislike put it other like bid on the ended the pub- the god like stick like a tube in their first. You can get it through stays open and keep cramming men there right tied to a bumper car something like that. No slingshot. great like a winger. What does he an interesting over really. Oh my god man dies house around with the band. Dies in handkerchief ass trick. How did how did how did special will die by seventy two goddamn handkerchiefs tied in an odd shoved up his ass ripped out by nineteen seventy two. Vw boss. that's how he died. Thinking damn near flipped inside out which is actually inscribed on his tombstone. Now by its german. So it's a lot shorter. They had a word for all of that. Becky it that met person dies from having seventy two hecker chips and ripped al by nineteen seventy two. Vw bus aggressively right. Koi violently loopless louis sands lube said my anal ca David all right. Were you get out of here tonight. Her week are way. Yes we are. Look around and see what i gotta do here. I don i like closed everything. Well we'll because. I don't know i don't know i started closing style. Burger a goofy. A sal you know that right right okay. Thank god all right everybody. Well i hope you have a great rest day month. Meeks shift drive. Whatever these that you are doing debbie massey think guys. Well yeah. I dunno your social media later. Erica's plane. doug does anybody does.

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Dinopocalypse Redux


45:15 min | 2 years ago

Dinopocalypse Redux

"You're listening. Listening to radio land route. From W N Y. And NPR, ladies and gentlemen. Please. Welcome to the stage, your host for this evening. Jan Atta Radha rubber. I'm chad. I'm rod, I'm Robert krulwich. This is radio lab and a while back. We were on stage. We were live at the paramount theatre in downtown Seattle was several years ago. He called that show apocalyptic because it was about endings different kinds of endings of different things. It was a show that we did with all of these incredible musicians. Video artists we had puppets. We had huge. Yes. Puppets, all of which you can see on the video on our website at radio dot work. But what we're gonna do for you. Now is play you part of that original show, actually, the first story in that show, which is about the end of the dinosaurs. Because we we have news to tell you about that story, and it's very similitude. Yes. So we're going to go. I play part one of our show about dinosaurs. Go back to the paramount theatre in Seattle. We don't okay, we're going to start you off with the guy will the guy who started off for us guy named Jay dream Milosz professor and Purdue University, and I study. Impact craters among other things not only can shave Malaj create impact craters with his mind. But he and his colleagues have been investigating this moment almost as if it were a crime scene that happened not sixty million years ago. But yesterday. And the story that they've put together it's more than just interesting. It's frankly. Terrifying. Dan, weirdly specific as it happens. Take for example, the seemingly simple question of when when did it happen? You don't mean like the year that would be a little too specific. No, I I don't know. If you remember what J got even more specific than that. This was a casual question that I threw out listen to his answer, by the way. Do we know anything about seasons was a worm particularly actually it was between? Well, this is a bit of a stretch. But it was some time between June July, you can say that. So specifically what you know that the reasoning is we confers simple. This was the this is the first surprise kind of a controversial idea. But basically goes like this Jay says scientists have found some pollen in rocks which date from that time to different kinds of pollen. And based on of those two kinds of pollen. We know that the impact took place between the flowering of the Lotus and the flowering of the water lilies. Okay. So that's what Lotus UC flowering on the left. Hits a water leaf flowering on the right? You can see this. If you look at our video online fossils found at the impact site that had pollen from both of these flowers in the same rock would suggest that the impact didn't fact take place somewhere between June and July is one of those things in jail, which we we get a glimpse of a moment. Far far back in time to let's go deeper into that moment. Let's collectively rewind ner minds back in time tennis, millions of years into the past sixty six million years ago to be precise. There. They are. Majestic beasts. Hanging out on the planes. Eaten there? Lotus leaves? Sometime in June. June seventeenth. Let's say. In everything on this day, pretty much normal. This particular fateful day was no different than any of millions and millions of previous days as far as the dinosaurs were concerned. But if there were any astronomers at the time, which they weren't they might have had some inkling that something's coming because they looked up. They would have seen a tiny little dot of light in the sky. Whereas planets the moon move with respect to the stars. This would have had a constant bearing and old semen could tell you that. If you see something constant bearing that's on a collision course with you. And that thing, of course, is our asteroid zeroing in on the earth. I want to say that we do know quite a bit about this asteroid from the size of the creator and from the amount of certain minerals found at the impact site, we know that the asteroid was roughly six miles wide, and then again, roughly six miles long, which makes it approximately the size of Manhattan island or Mount Everest regular size of Mount Everest. That has Doug Robertson geologist who knows quite a bit about this asteroid. And by the way, it has a name that it's it's the asteroids called Baptist. Tina Baptists Dima why that's student Baptist. I don't know the name asteroids on another subject, we do know that the earth's moon was probably produced by a. Collision with something. The size of Mars. Whoa. Just do that in because it's cool doesn't really relate to our story. The whole evening here. Let's just to it. Okay. The dinosaurs are here on earth. They're eating their leaves. Meanwhile, up in space are asteroid Baptist team. His now hurtling towards the earth twenty thousand miles an hour area fast when he times faster than very fast wife oval, and scientists couldn't be sure what would happen, mathematically. I mean when a Mount Everest size bullet travelling at twenty thousand miles an hour. It's our atmosphere. The fear is really just a very very thin skin over the rest of the earth. Scientists all right. If we're gonna construct this story, let's just take a piece by piece, and I figure out what would happen when this big ball hurling through space slams into our atmosphere, which is made of gas, of course. So just to approximate. Let's fire a bullet through some gas. And watch what happens now here we basically showed a super slow motion video of gun firing -able at underwater. You can see it on a website radio lab dot org. It's very beautiful. See the bullet coming out and freeze it right there at the edge. Okay. Basically what you see is bullet steaming through the water, by the way, we use water as Brooks mission for gas because gas you'd have the same effect. I'm about to describe creating a wake behind it and the wake gets wider and wider as trails away from the bullet. And if you're imagine this shape in three dimensions. Really what you're looking at is kind of a cone funnel shape in inside the walls of the funnel. Inside that cone is nothing. Nothing nothing because it's water. So you're saying there's a hole in the water. That's what I'm saying. There's nothing in there. It's a vacuum in there. Because the bullet is shooting through the water pushes the water out of the way. And for a beat the water doesn't have time to come back together. And so all you have is emptiness in there. Right there. This what you're seeing a massive hole in the water created by tiny little bullet. Now, imagine that that bullet is six miles wide and the whole that it's making is right above your head. What does that mean? If you're dinosaurs looking up what would happen. Well, if you were in the right place, and this is going to be the wrong place in the second or you in the right place to look behind the asteroid as it came in. You'd probably be able to to see clearly through the space. Does that mean you would suddenly be looking at a nighttime hole in daytime sky? Right. To be fair. Jay did tell us that you would need special kinds of eyeballs to see this night whole day sky, the diners didn't have that. So science still I mean, just imagine what a last image that would be to see day and night come together in the same moment. But according to j you better not blink. Because before you could open your eyes again. The asteroid would have hit the surface. And if you're in a position to to see that then you're gonna be in golfed by the violence that is just about to occur, by the way, the audience was just laughing at Dino still too graphic that just came on the screens. So we know it was a big explosion fine that it was violent fine. But I think we should be a little bit subtle about this. Because obviously if an asteroid is the size of Manhattan ended lands on your head. You're not gonna feel very good about that. But if Manhattan is is hitting the planet earth that's a little bit. Like a pebble hitting any normal beach ball. Yeah. And I imagine that that the little pebble size relativists speaking, the pebble would create some damage in the spot where it landed. But let's suppose that you are. Aleve. Eating mother of three hadrosaur living in New Zealand. Right. And you're just at the moment that the asteroid comes in your on your anti-polio on the other side of the planet. Would you have any idea that this was happening? The next question that we took today how much damage with this thing actually do. Well, we can do experiments. We can produce things situations like this in small quantities in the laboratory. Which brings us. We're good to hear to the sky, Peter Scholtz, and I like to do impact experience. Pete shields, basically has every thirteen year olds dream job. It gets to blow shit up for a living. Basically would be does he works at this place? You're seeing right here on the screen. This is the NASA Ames laboratory in California, and the thing that they're putting together there in the middle frame. That is a giant three story tall canon or does he takes projectile? So for example, you're going to see him a little glass bullet over there. And he's going to load it into the top of the cannon, and he's going to fire it right into a stand up for planet earth, which for him will be a sand pit and looking for us when we called Pete he was just about to pull the trigger on this thing to your. We're calling you on a day in which you are trying to expre- experience the day, actually. Yeah. I think we're gonna survive. That's our plan. Okay. Hold on. We're gonna get an assume the position to cross fingers. Here we go. We have already. Rolling. That is gorgeous that oh my gosh. Are they your instruments? Oh my gosh. That is the sound of man, very happy with his explosion. You can see every piece of this of what's happening. So based on experiments like this people IP can figure out precisely what happened when the asteroid hit the earth they can quantify the explosions power by basically leveraging experiments like this. So according to the amount of energy that would have been unleashed. When that came rushing in onto earth is roughly this hit the earth with an explosion. That's one hundred million megatons. Sierra lips they Sarah archetypes kinda swimmer guitar around had a mental moment though, look her or she'll do that to you. Okay. So here's essentially how Doug broke that down for us. Two tons of TNT. We're talking tons megatons. Tons of TNT will essentially do this. On what of the three screens? You see at ten story building imploding few tons of tea and tea will take down a building. Now fifteen thousand tons of TNT that is what the United States dropped on Hiroshima in nineteen forty five on a second screen. We see our Kyle footage of the atomic bomb. That chaos is fifteen thousand tons of TNT. Now these days, according to Doug Robertson, a hydrogen bomb. Current hydrogen bombs are typically of the order of one million tonnes of TNT equivalent. Now one million tons of TNT equivalent. That's what we call a megaton. If you remember Doug said that the asteroid impact was equivalent of one hundred million megatons, really what he's saying in concrete terms that that impact was the equivalent of one hundred million of those bombs going off all at once in the same spot. Which is a lot. Debt is true. That is true. However, it means it's really depends on what you mean by a lot because I was doing a little googling. And I was surprised to learn that one hundred ten million megatons is not nearly enough to destroy the planet to destroy the entire planet. You would need you ready for this one hundred and ten quadrille, Ian, megatons of GMT, which one hundred million times one hundred ten million megatons of TNT so going back to your head resource situation mother of three in New Zealand if the thing came in NT puddle to her maybe she would feel the ground shake a little bit. But after miniature Bill, whatever and should go back to eating leaves, you probably wouldn't notice. Well, no, that's not what we were taught in homeroom by MRs lagrue or whoever your teacher was here's the classic explanation. There was an impact, of course, and kicked up enormous amount of dust you remember this the dust then kind of covers the planet blankets, the earth makes earth very cold. Makes your very nasty all the big plans die the plants get sick. Dinosaurs, get hungry. Dinosaurs get sick, and then gradually they get dead debtor and data and from different things ten thousand years thirty thousand years for two till you get like nine hundred thousand years later, you've got a shivering last dinosaurs sitting in the cold. And that's the that's the story. We were told in school is a long slow wintry. Yeah. Oh, why would till these good people that tired old story for MRs? What is it? Miss mcgruder. Make I made her mcgruder tonight. Okay. Let us offer up a completely different night. Scottish? All right. We'll go with that. Let's actually flip the understanding completely. I think we based on new science. So right here. We're going to Keith pull up that ballistics video that we showed earlier with the red sand. Can you sort of pull that up and blow it up to the three screens? And then yeah, reminded back. I think you wouldn't affects bitten with. Okay. So this is a six thousand frame second video that you're seeing here from Pete's lab disappoint on the screen. All you're seeing a pit of red sand. Now, what you see in the first few frames you see the laser hitting right red sand flying in the air super slow and then the next frame forward. Right there you see some fire. See little bulb of fire erupt near the impact site, right? Where the laser hits the sand. There's this little clump of flame in we freeze on that spot. Now, scientists can now measure the temperatures in that spot right there. Integrate there and just to state the obvious. We know from those measurements that spot, right? There would have gotten very very very very very hot. Wavy on the temperature of the sun. We were talking temperatures, maybe twenty thousand degrees sons temperatures about five thousand and if we're talking temperatures four times hotter than the sun will anything that's that hot is going to instantly instantly turn to gas. A very very high temperature high-pressure guests, it's actually rock vapor rock steam, so magin. This thing comes barreling into asteroid. It doesn't just bounce off the earth Clough's into the earth goes into the surface, two miles in five miles in seven miles in ten miles in twenty miles into the earth. That goes all the rock. That's it's plowing into his turning into a liquid and then into a gas. And now watch what happens next. This is a basic physics experiment. We're gonna show you on the screen. You see very lovely video actually of a hand dropping a metal ball in to some sand. Do dropping a bone some sand watch this right here. Ball goes in. In like, a millisecond effort makes impact disappears into the sand. A little spear of San go shooting back in the opposite direction sort of abouts back affect does. This always happen. This whatever this is it's like Newton's love something. Newton's love sand. What you see is you see this fine plume of sand. You're shooting back in the opposite direction as sort of rebound right now magin that that ball is an asteroid and that sand over there that's the planet earth to Keith play that one more time we play the video again. But this time as the ball drops it gradually more into an asteroid. Thank you for the what you would get the same effect. You would get. Simple is just something. We do. You wonder where we get all of our sound out of that man's mouth. That's where you would get that same bounceback effective of fine plume shooting back in the opposite direction. But we know we just heard a Doug described that it would not be ro would not be saying in this case, it would be rock gas gas expands upward and pushes right on through the atmosphere up into space, some fraction the moon read it and some fraction of that hit Mars. Okay. So now, you've got this sneeze of rock, vapor. It's out in space. Basic physics says it travels out further away from the earth. What's going to happen is it's going to start to cool down a bit. And when it cools Rican dense into little droplets that basically form class very quickly little droplets of glass about the size of sand. Now, if you look at one of these little droplets of glass under a microscope. This is what it looks like right there on the screen. You see what looks like a translucent snowball that is actually a magnified image of one of these. Bits of glass it fell from space that day. Most of them didn't land on the ground talk about that. In a second. There. It is. I don't know about you. But I find that totally terrifying. 'cause that's it looks like a little Baptist. You know? Right tiny last droid, except now magin trillions of these things in the cloud in the cloud of shrapnel going out out away from the earth. What's going to happen next is that it's going to start to lose momentum. That cloud win does the earth's gravity is going to grab hold of it and say come on back and ninety percent of them come back to the earth. This falling glass, deuce harm. Yes. Because what happens is that the the glass out in space starts to spread out like north and south east and west and eventually it will appear in the sky over New Zealand. It's now a global phenomena, and you know, it's really hard to imagine what the hadrosaur would have seen. But the thing to keep in mind is that these things that are coming in these glass. Ninety percent are burning up in the atmosphere. So very few of them are hitting the ground. So from her point of view, probably would have looked like the greatest meteor shower any one has ever seen. With one significant bummer, which is this. When these little bits of glass, come in each one that burns up is depositing. A little bit of heat into the sky and collectively there's such a massive reign of these things coming in. Well, the heat would build up the sky would turn red. It would beginning hotter and hotter. And at a certain point Jay wondered. Wow. Hot exactly would have gotten the cow much heat exactly would have built up there in the sky. And then started to radiate down, we calculated the amount of heat would come down, a number ten kilowatts per square, meter and. Yeah. Okay. Well, we get this number. Well, what what does that mean? Well, I I went home, and I hooked up a current meter and pride to measure the amount of heat produced in my oven for different amounts of power. And I could get about seven kilowatts per square meter in my oven on broil, and oh like five hundred degrees broil, but that wasn't quite enough. Not nearly so Jay started measuring other kinds ovens and finally found out that the heat would be in fact, like being an pizza pizza oven is about right, which means that if you were terrestrial dinosaur anywhere above the ground on. On the earth on that day. You've experienced some heat. It is almost unimaginable. Maybe it started a hundred degrees because it was June was summer, but within minutes, it would have been three hundred degrees. Five hundred degrees. Seven hundred degrees. Nine hundred degrees. Estimates are on that day temperatures topped out at something like twelve hundred degrees. At that temperature. Nothing can protect you your scales. Your for whatever you got nothing to do any good. Your blood will literally start to boil inside your body, and you will die. Essentially to this theory. The dinosaurs everything else on earth that day would have been incinerated. Doug thinks that's what the demand not so much the impact all that. Ojectives went up into the sky came down glass rain in created that heat. That's what did them in. And he would argue it didn't just do some of them were even many of them in. He would say it did all of them in all at once. There is zero evidence that any dinosaur made it through the crazy part of this series at J Doug thinks the whole process from the impact to the glass rain to the incineration of all of these species on the planet. It would have taken a few hours. His best guests he thinks maybe two hours. I mean, that's less time than a a business lunch. You try getting east north with anywhere on Mercer street at rush hour in two. And do you think about that is less time than you will spend in this theater tonight? That means that you're saying that animal that had been supreme on the planet for two hundred million. Disappears in a few hours completely. Yes. That's what the evidence suggests. That's right. Well, you can consider the evidence. But also, you could consider common sense. I mean, we've got a world filled with terrestrial dinosaurs. They were on every continent that even in Antarctica and to say that they all disappeared in two hours. All that. Would that suggests that there's none of them out of harm's way? None of them in a cave somewhere. None of them in the grotto. None of them in a in a protected forest any kind of the word all not connection. It's just too much. I just don't. Yeah. Truth is that the science is never going to be so exact as to say, yeah. All of them disappeared or it happened on a single day or on an afternoon. No, no tool that we have is that precise. But what Jay is saying is that happened fast. Very fast nothing made it through. What I find interesting is that ultimately, you don't need the ballistics or anything we've shown you so far to know that something major sudden happened because you can see evidence of it literally etched into the earth. So. So. Spot where we I found abound. You can see it really well out in Colorado. Actually, we sent one of our producers, Molly Webster out there to meet a paleontologist, Kirk Johnson. They hiked over a couple hills found this one specific spot for dinosaur come around the corner and these started to dig. Down like. Afoot points from where we were turns out every three feet down ten thousand years time. See the has layers kind of like a tree has rains and every three feet down you go. You're going back in time about ten thousand years. And when you go all the way down all the way back to sixty six point nine million years, you will find this one little skinny strip of rock. That's a development. That this one skinny gray line? This this gray crappy. Known a very real way that line that you're seeing that represents the day the asteroid hit the day just above that line. That's a little bit after the day just below that line a little bit before today. The line is called the boundary, and what's cool is you can actually touch you can touch evidence of that moment. In fact, Kirk what he did that day was he took his finger and dug a piece out in handed Tamale. I'm hauling holy. Uphold in the. It's like. Chunks of coal, but it's not holding is dark grey, mud stone carbon rich, bud stone in that mud stone. You'll find all kinds of things I mean, you'll find very rare minerals like iridium that probably came in on the asteroid and got smushed into that line. Those little glass balls talking about this little hill. Balls will if you get out a microscope, and you look at that rock, you will see them in there. We put a funny cartoon of the little help balls. They're all in that line teasing that line. What's about is like hitmen? They're sort of a story that day absolute. Here's the crazy thing if this is the line right here this strip here, Robert traces picture of the KT boundary with finger. And then you dig just below the line you're gonna find over and over again, dinosaurs everywhere, I mean, not gonna be alive. Of course, he's putting some toy dinosaurs. Under the line and making the move by giving them a certain amount of energy, which I should but their fossils, and you will find dinosaur fossils from Europe. And I'd Aho and Montana. This one says it was made in China. But if you just go above the line, you don't find any times so below the line scientists have looked everywhere above and they haven't well everywhere. They have looked anyway, they found nothing nothing. Nothing. It's a different world. That's the amazing thing that's different world. And it's pretty worried. This is one world. You're literally just pointing pinky to pointer fingers spread. This is another moment where I would urge you at some point not now keep listening, but at some point watch the video of this performance because what Sarah Darin Glen Keith do in this moment, visually pretty mazing. Okay. So that was the story. We told about the end of the dinosaurs live at the paramount theatre in Seattle Washington when we come back we're gonna take a quick break right now. But when we come back, our reporter, Molly Webster, I will dish about what we have just learned about that day, those hours so long ago, we have all. I'm not going to tell you have to stay riot is coming up in just a minute. This is Mike bell from Newton North Carolina radio lab is supported in part. By the Alfred P Sloan foundation enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at WWW Sloan dot org. This is radio lab. I'm chad. I'm Robert we are back. Now, you just heard are drastic in the moment version of the day, the dinosaurs all died, and now you're thinking of something different. No, no, no. It was some guy who sort of Amador, and he was and he went to we haven't update maybe you should bring dump to me. From our reporter, Molly Webster who reported that story for us way back when and now she is here again with news. Very interesting news. So we're updating the apocalyptic episode, right? Which was probably the last time. I saw you. I don't know. And and the reason we're updating is because this science article came out the basically if. It proves to be true. It could be one of the largest paleontological discoveries of day. The dinosaurs died it claims to tell the story of the first fifteen minutes to three hours after the asteroid hit down in Mexico. And basically what it is is geologic formation that is kind of like that line that we saw in Colorado, but like that line on steroids. And it's in the southwest corner of North Dakota close to close to is not close to the Gulf of Mexico at all it's like three thousand kilometers away, and this particular site used to be I guess the assumption is sixty six million years ago that it was kind of like a river like a river valley that was muddy and warm, and it was near something called the western interior seaway. So then what did they find there? So one of the authors on this paper is this super famous paleontologist, John Smit, he said. When he went to the site, and he stood there. He's like what I see in. This place is a three hour story of that day with all the victims. And it feels like a movie is playing out before me who so he can of turned into a scene by scene by scene adventure in time. Yeah. So the story that they lay out in the paper is that this area within like fifteen minutes after the asteroid it was hit by waves from the western interior sea. And they brought with them saltwater fish, and like seashells and things like into this freshwater area. And then at the same time. Remember like, we talked about those glass balls fell from the sky. So the story that this area tells is that they're actually kind of like three phases of those glass balls of various like size and proportions and some. That went really really far into like space and came back. And so they came back later than all the other ones and are more. You know, it's funny. It's all glass balls in the end, really. But like if you're paleontologist, you're really geeking out right now over like, the different types of glass balls that this site last balls are basically the spill of giant crash. Yeah. And some of them are actually made of particles from the actual impact site, Mike in all of the previous sites. They had found in the United States. None of those glass balls were actually still glass, they had decomposed into clay apparently glass will change into clay over time. I did not know this, but in this location, they actually have glass unaltered by the passage of time. So it holds within it like the air in chemistry of of that day, and that place, and they found some that were actually I feel like this such a Jurassic Park. They found. Them there were trapped in amber that haven't that are totally unaltered. And I was just like I I really don't know anything except for that like Jurassic Park made me think anything amber is really important very very old Ed like unfrozen holds holds all of the memories of mother earth and just back over back in the back in on the day that this this asteroid hit the earth that was a tropical well, populated place. Yes. So sub-tropical well-populated short would have dinosaurs. And it would have dinosaurs. It would have fish. It seemed to be covered in trees insects. Lots of insects mammals little little looks like mammals, whatever our oldest mammal was. Yes. So it was a really like lush happening area, and what they see in this site that they've uncovered today is what appears to be in. Instantaneous deaths. They've described fish that are stacked dead fish fossilized fish that are stacked logs and its freshwater fish and marine fish, and they do describe it as like a mass grave. There are fish fossils, wrapped around tree basis like creatures plants and stones and pebbles and shellfish and everything saltwater freshwater everything switched together feels like tumble of life. That was like thrown like almost like thrown together in a wash and like mixed up. You know, if you're if you're an animal in that moment, you're there and something happens in Mexico, and you have no idea, but maybe about fifteen minutes after that thing happens in Mexico that you have no idea about you might feel the earth rumble. There's some shaking, and then that rumbling that shaking comes with it a big wave from the sea. And so you get this big comes in. And then what happens is that comes in is your Ardy starting to get the glass balls from the heavens. And so and what they see is you get this like wave of kind of what seems to be almost like raining glass balls, and then that's like mixed in with the mud from like, the title, search and the layers of things that are dying and the fish some of the details that stand out to me, the most are the the fish are all generally pointed in the same direction, and they're like stacked pretty tightly mouths open and their fins splayed. But one of the things I think super cool is that all that different stuff. We talked about happening across the globe in our original show. Like probably got really hot like, you know, that was Jay Milosz was like it's really hot Doug Robertson was talking about like, the boiler the boiler effect. And then we talked about flash of blue light. And we talked about things raining from the sky and. We talked about June or July all that stuff. A lot of that stuff was based on really smart models. This seems to be a place that actually will provide evidence either four against those models like charge tree trunks, which I think made like J Milosz, really happy. 'cause he was like I did get really hot too. You know, and then they're like the fish wrapped around trees. And then there appears to be a dinosaur bone and possibly dinosaur bone with skin still attached. And Kirk Johnson said if if that is if it really is at dinosaur bone and that site is connected to the asteroid impact. Like, they think it is. It would be the youngest dinosaur ever. Last question is something we need to know about the man who's dig this. That would color our feelings about the the study's author the main authors sky, Robert poma, he's in his late thirties. He does not have a PHD. He works a lot outside of normal academia, but Jameh law who is in our first thing he is the editor on the on the article, and then Walter Alvarez and yon Smith in the article are are co-authors. And then this other guy like March, Mark Richards, who's like a really famous soon NAMI earthquake guy. So he's he's got a collection of people around him. And I think everyone else says like if the stuff that they say that they have is there. It's amazing. I do think one of the things in the paper like is like people are like you're claiming to know a three hour window sixty six million years ago that is very big claim, right? You're really going to have to produce. A lot of evidence. And I think that people think it could be there. Boy, you convinced me if you got it looks good animal squished up together all ones, and you got rain that you can count for in different stages. It looks like you're right there at the splat moment of must three I and everything's dead. And the forest is burned. It's like it's almost like it's exactly what we said. I know I was like, well, I'm hooked. It's just it does leave you at the end of the day, filling a little bit nervous to be on this big safe blue dot recognizing that we're so vulnerable. Life is really fragile when pebble can murder I think the crazy part is if you were an animal standing, North Dakota. You have no idea what was happening. There's like I like logic. I like to be able to say there's a source. And then a thing happened and to just be there. And all of a sudden, the earth starts rattling like a bell around you. And then a tidal wave comes in. And then I'm dead when you're not even near the sea. No like that to me is the most is the most stunning part is salt on your mouth issued is. Yeah. It's just it's just like. To just be standing there on a wears. And then a thing happens that really has nothing to do with you nothing. That's the weird part to me. Thank you. I just wanna give a very special thanks to the people who shared the stage with Sarah state from Novell, Darin gray on the base England coach in the drums. They're both from the band on Fillmore. We are so lucky to share the stage with guys along with video maestro key scratch who's doing video of ruins puppeteer. Myron Guzzo, I got that guy. So good, check out all of them at radio app dot org slash lives. Could see them doing visual pretty pretty watching? Jan iran. Probably thanks. Jason still in Seattle. Washington radio lab was created by John Oberon, and is produced by Soren Wheeler. Dylan Keefe, our director of sound design Susie is our executive producer our staff includes Simon Adler that Cup Pressler Rachel cusak. David Bethel, Tracy hunt. Nora Keller Kilty rubber Koehler. Any McEwen Nassar, Melissa Donal, Sarah carring, Arianne, lack Walters and Molly with help from Shima. Audrey, Quinn and Neil. And our checker is Michelle hair.

Jay Doug Robertson Seattle Molly Webster New Zealand Kirk Johnson TNT Pete shields Sarah Darin Glen Keith J Doug Colorado Mexico United States North Dakota Mount Everest Robert krulwich Mike bell Sarah Jay dream Milosz tennis

Dear America with Graham Allen Podcast

1:16:00 hr | 2 months ago


"Right what's up america. This is a emergency broadcast. Oh god please go podcast. Do you like do that. Emergency broadcast podcast. So a lot of you are here a lot of you paying attention because of the live feed that i just did on facebook. Jake has no idea what i'm talking about. Because he just got to work. I've been here for three hours staring at a white board trying to figure out the future. That is everything so first and foremost. I'm going to pull back the curtain. And before i talked to you about the fact of the dnc is now going to monitor our text messages. Dims in texas have literally left the state to avoid having to vote on something which you they're still getting paid which is crazy but also Rona ronna mcdaniel. The head of the gop is under scrutiny. In fire because of everything that we've been saying since we started running for congress but before we talk about all that stuff. I wanna pull back the veil and the curtain for you guys for a moment. I every single one of you an apology. And i'm gonna talk to you about why i'm gonna try to condense the past year into like ten minutes so all right. Everyone knows that over the past four and a half years we have become one of the top twenty five voices in the conservative movement and a lot of that was due to facebook the majority of it we have amassed four billion with a b. billion views on facebook in the past four and a half years. Okay so we're averaging around a billion views a year on facebook The common misconception for everybody is that we were making facebook money the entire time. That is actually not true. Facebook didn't start allowing people to make money until about two years ago when they went into war with youtube. So you know me and jake. We decided to leave the blaze because we felt as though we could do things better on our own Proven right by that and we love the people at the blaze but it was just. We felt like at the end of the day. We don't fit into this freaking box that everybody wants to put us in and we wanted to be able to do it our way but the thing i have to apologize to you guys about is me and jake figured out how to beat the system on facebook. We figured out that one. We got monetize status on facebook for the first time. Ever we figured out that we could clip videos and post them things that were going on in the news and it would go viral and and make a lot of money. We found out that there were key words of things that we could not say or the videos would get monetize so we figured out a way to bypass that it literally would just put like. Oh look at the puppies kennedy thing like super super soft thing so the facebook algorithm wouldn't pick it up until you guys saw the videos okay. These weren't nothing videos. These were actually real. Thanks people literally attacking men in their trucks Simply for being white kayleigh mcenany destroying the fake news media. I mean these were real videos about real stuff. But we figured out a way to beat the facebook to where facebook wouldn't pick up that it was deemed d. monetize -able or non monetize boil by their algorithms until about three days had gone by and the truth is we were making a lot of money doing it that way and then in. I think it was august time frame last august so eleven months ago. Sounds right we got hit with. They finally caught onto us and we got hit with d. monetization. It was supposed to last thirty days. It lasted about fifty days. And by that point i mean everybody was doing this. Okay so so let's call it what. It is. the only way to get the stuff out there charlie. Kirk johnson hodge twins. David eyres junior terrance williams every single conservative. You can imagine we all were talking to each other and we all realized that if we cross posted the same videos with each other that everybody made money and it got further right like a video would get ten million views as opposed to one. If we all work together. I guess just the money though because i could have been posting. Liberal stuff was the way to beat the algorithm. Exactly that's what it was about. It was a way to beat the algorithms or else they never would have seen. It was a way for you guys to hear our show right. I mean we. We did it with our clips as well in the hajj twins. I if you go back a year you'll see videos of the hajj twins on the graham alan page etc. It was a way for us all to help each other out to beat the facebook algorithms but it was also a way for us to be able to pay the bills. I mean it was. We have in police here it. It's what helped get nine. Twelve started literally. I use that money to help far nine twelve until nine twelve could stand on its own. It helped fund paying for people to work for the charity organization without having the charity. Pay for it. I mean we use that money to expand open up a lot of things but then we got d monetize for forty five days. Facebook picked up on what everybody was doing. And then they came up with this clause that it has to be original content. So now you'll now what you are seeing from people is they'll show the clip and then they'll do three minutes of commentary on it. Dan bongino do the same thing. I mean everybody did this. There's no way that you did not see it the trend everybody did it but then we decided to run for cars. Oh no that skipping ahead. Too much But they crackdown. They crack down on what we could monetize how we could monetize it. We literally got told we were not allowed to not put what we were talking about. The captions facebook algorithms deemed it to be monetize -able than it wouldn't get then it wouldn't get monetize and it wouldn't go and that's another thing. It's not just about the money. We've talked about this multiple times. If your videos on facebook are not monetize they go to the bottom of the algorithms. And you don't see it anyway because the algorithms are designed for the videos that are making facebook money to be seen by more people they just got pissed that the conservatives figured it out a loophole in then they cracked down on us. And even to this day. If you look at everybody's pages look on. Gino's look at benny's look at. Charlie's look at hodge twins. Everybody's pages have been just catastrophically hit. I think we're we are lucky to break a million views now on a video. The hodgman's same way. Everybody is don jr. every everybody is lucky to break a million because they neutered us. Yeah that's what they did they notice and and our megaphone away. The reason that i owe you guys an apology. This why because. I allowed facebook to win over on us and what i mean by that. Is i allowed fear of less money coming in to be able to pay people salaries all this stuff. I allowed the fear of that to dictate us speaking about what actually needs to be spoken about and so for months. That's what we did. We talked about things that we knew wouldn't get his dinged a and basically you weren't allowed to talk about biden in any way shape or fashion any in any way other than you love. Joe biden like you weren't allowed to say anything. Do anything about kobe. You couldn't talk about it. Anything about Suppression of articles that are damaging to the dnc at anyway anything about the builder anything about the election. Oh god if you said anything if you even said the word election year even said that was weird. Yeah you can. You can't say the word tyranny. You can't say the word riots anything about the riots of we weren't allowed to talk about it because it would get demonetized and no body would see it in ladies and gentlemen. I need you to understand. It wasn't as much about the money as it was about the fact of literally a- d. monetize video won't even break a hundred thousand views and i know that to you guys. That may still sound like a lot to us. No it's not like our lowest video would average three million views And that'd be a low video real. America how much time we spend on it and it censored why waste the time you know exactly and so i owe you we all. Oh you an apology. Because we allowed facebook to win but then we decided to run for congress and we when we decided to run for congress. Facebook send us a nice little email that we were expecting once we won in congress like we were expecting that it. You know if we win this congressional race we knew that facebook was gonna take away our monetization. Because i'd be a government government official. And you know you can't do that. We weren't expecting three days after we announced for them to remove our ability to make money Without the ability to make money. I mean all the stuff cost money like the the freaking video camera. That records is more money than you want to know. It's expensive anyway and so for the past couple months. Obviously we were focused heavily on the campaign for a little while. But i have literally been staring at a blank whiteboard for weeks. Trying to figure out what we're gonna do. What are we going to do. How are we going to. Because i have to think about things two different ways. I have to think about things of if i win this race and i also simultaneously at the same time. I have to think about if i win the race. How do i said things up for success back here and still be able to do the job that i need to do in congress and then i also have to think about. Well what if. I don't win What happens after that. And that's very hard thing to do. It's very hard those are two. We're talking about two completely different. Lives having to figure it out. And it's been driving me crazy and has been driving me nuts and then today it finally just occurred to me this morning i was hopped up on pre workout. And that's when my best ideas come to me man. I mean it really does. I'm hopped up on pre workout. I'm i got the jitters. The jitters jitters and my best ideas. Come to me and i got to thinking about the fact of before facebook started monetize thing i was just saying what i really wanted to say and back then before this conservative influence. Her thing happened in facebook started cracking down. That's what got us where we are speaking the truth without worrying about it makes money or not the first three years of me doing this. I did not make a single dime off. Facebook thinks that we've been millionaires for years. That is not true zero. Not even one penny from facebook until the end of two thousand and nineteen really. That's that's the truth. I started doing this in two thousand fifteen okay. So that's that's four years okay. Not a single red sent from facebook. I think it's funny that this is This is here. I feel like people were telling me something. Losing my hair people. Everybody knows this. How will you know you're ready to do something about your receding hairline and bald spot when they're the first things you see in the mirror okay. It's time now. What that's easy keeps keeps has more five star reviews than any competitor's and hundreds of thousands of guys trust keeps for their hair loss prevention keeps offers recommended. Fda approved hair treatment and because they're generic versions you pay about half the cost best of all you do everything online answer. A few easy questions snap a couple of picks of your hair and a licensed doctor reviews your info a recommends the right hair loss treatment for you ladies. I know a lot of ladies. Listen to this show. Every single one of us knows the majority of your men are losing their hair right. Just call it what it is. You can find it sexy if you want to. But they're your man. Doesn't i promise so. Get this for them right now. You can get started with a special discount. Go to keep dot com k. e. p. s. dot com slash gram for fifty percent off your first order of hair loss treatments. That's keeps dot com slash. Graham keeps dot com slash graham. Anyway so it occurred to me. I was just making videos. Because you guys would hear it and you guys would see it in his what i felt and what i believed so i need to get back to that. It needs to get back to speaking the truth without fear of monetization and censorship. And all this stuff but the rules in the war has changed and so that is why on the live feed today on facebook. I let you know that things are changing. I see the path of the future in the path of the future is to facebook. Page is dead compared to what it was and it's never going to be the same ever ever ever again people. Ask me all the time. But why don't you bring back the old rent videos and this and that and this and that will because you never see them. that's why. yeah that's why i don't do it. Yeah you would never ever ever see them. The videos that i made in the beginning Would be fact checked band and deleted off of facebook now. The the videos where i would stat my finger in a ar fifteen pop in my hands and all this other stuff. Those videos would be taken off for inciting violence now. In fact i had a video taken off. And all i did was show that i carry and i lifted up my shirt to show that i carry everyday deleted facebook for inciting violence okay. The rules have changed. That's why you don't see that. So what is the path of. What is the future. So as i told many of you if you are new to the show today because you came in from the live feed on on and so welcome to the show i promise. They're not all ask serious like this but honestly a lot of them are going to start getting like this because we need to start talking about the truth of what is going on in our country without fear of censorship without fear of worrying about if big tech is going to allow it to go or allow it not to go and we are focusing moving forward. This is what i said on the live feed. And this is what i'm saying here. We are rebranding. This show jake is hearing about this for the very first time. We are rebranding. this show. It's still going to be america podcasts. Don't worry about that but but we are going to go back to filming video and we're gonna go back to. I haven't decided how many times a day or a week we're going to do this thing. But we are putting all of our focus in all of our energy with graham allen media. Okay grandma ollie. Media is one of my companies grandma and media holds. The podcast holds. I guess you could call it me as a figure i mean. That's what falls underneath that. Graham media's focus is this show moving forward because it is the only answer moving forward facebook instagram youtube. We are not doing youtube i refuse. Yeah we i in fact out of protest. I'm probably going to delete the youtube channel of protest. Yeah we already like Took all the videos off and we have a video that sell content has been moved to grand mound dot com right down with. And so what we're going to do is we're going to move to rumble. That's what we're doing. We're moving to rumble. We're move into places that do not censor what is allowed to be on there and yes that means that it's going to get a hot less views for a long time. But here's what we know. And this is what i talked about. The irony on facebook on the facebook live is the truth is are we going to go off facebook no. We're not going to go off facebook because we can't yet. Facebook is still a very powerful tool. If you use the right way for the right reason the right reason is to start pushing people from facebook to this show. Lou crowder crowder has had it figured out for years It's much better to have one hundred thousand people listening to louder with crowder than it is to have. A billion people listing on facebook. Yeah just is so. That's what we're doing. We're going to start putting all of our focus. All of our f- assist into growing this show because on this show we can talk about whatever we want however we want whenever we want and so the title is episode is an emergency broadcast. And it's that way for a reason. Because i am letting everyone know that we are done playing by these cutesy. Honestly just tiptoe around rules around big tech tyranny. Were done over it tiptoeing around china which yes whoo we are over it our intentions just so you know are going to be very clear. We are going to grow the show. We are going to become syndicated and we're going to go. It's it's so ironic. That audio is what's going to save the conservative movement. In a in an age where social media big tech is. This is this everywhere. It is audio and radio. That's going to save us. That is the truth. And that is the future and that is where we're going. And that is what i am committed to doing. I don't care how long it takes. I don't care how much money it cost. i don't care. I've got some meetings today with some people that i think are going to believe in us. As i think that you believe in us. I do not care anymore. Our focus is dear america. Podcast with graham allen. I really want to get rid of the graham allen. I never really wanted on the first one but everybody says that we have for the name either way. I think it's stupid either way. The point is dear. America is the focus. Because on this show i can say things like cove is a scam. I can say things like the election. Was meddled with there was election fraud. I can say things like they want you to live in fear through cove misinformation from them. i can say those things i can say to you. As fellow republicans that there is a difference between republicans and conservatives Hundred percent you can say that black lives matters. Founded by act blue the jesse marxist organizations and black lives matter should be black lives inc should be deemed a terrorist organization. I can say those things. I can say things like you know. Joe biden is not in control. The white house. I don't really know who's in control the white house because now i think we'll get into some of the topics here in a minute. This is the shot across the bow from us that we are willing to bleed for you if you are willing to fight with us. We're in the fight with congress and now we're going in the fight against big tech and the only way to do that is to get off. A big tech. Social media is to get off of. It used them for the purpose of pushing traffic and pushing you the listeners. To where we actually can talk to you about real things. That is the truth. The days of the daily rants and all that stuff. They're dead not by my choice. It's it's it's it's through big tax choice. It's not my choice. I didn't choose do that. I you love magazine. I had fun making those videos. But they won't let you see it and honestly as i have matured and as this has become much more what's the word consequential show consequential movement like the things we say matter and people listen to it. We ended up on the news about it. And all this other stuff we have to be able to have more in depth conversations than just a five minute. Hit video about how stupid the left is we. Just do we have to have those real conversations okay. I'm fixing to be thirty five years old. I can't be screaming my truck anymore. Yeah okay this isn't a stick. This is real life of what i believe in what i think what i feel. I love ginger billy. He's one of my favorite people on social media as a grown man running around in a tractor or or a lawnmower that he turned into a truck and it's a hilarious and gets a lot of us but at the end of the day our purpose is not to entertain you right and that has been the biggest change it started off as i wanted to entertain you through attacking social issues through comedy and sarcasm because i thought it was funny but now i realize that we have a much bigger purpose in that. Oh yeah that's the tell you the truth so what. I'm asking every single one of you to do right now is i'm asking you to share this podcast on your social media's help spread the word and tell everybody to come subscribe to this show because this show is fixing to be the most aggressive the most truthful the most in-your-face show in conservative podcasting media. Whatever ramon i am tired. i'm tired. I'm tired of being neutered and not being the graham allen that i actually want to be And so we're not going to do it anymore. So please give us five stars on the show right. It helps us out a really. Does the more five stars get every single person that listens to this show. I need you to simply go. And just hit the five star. that's it. I know you guys get mad at charlie. Kirk charlie kirk go does is say. Subscribe to the podcast. Give us five stars. He's also the most listened to podcasts in the world okay. There's a reason for that guys. If you want change you have to get behind the people that are trying to change it. So i need you all to go right now before we get into the topics of the day that need to be discussed. And i need you to subscribe. if you're not already subscribed share the podcast on your platforms. Tell your friends to subscribe and give us five stars. I have literally seen charlie kirk in a photo line. Before he'll take the photo they got. Subscribe to the podcast really. It's it's awesome. It's free and it's not like give me five bucks. I'll take hey dog. Just click a button man. That's it support person super simple but now we gotta talk about real stuff. I feel good. We feel everybody feel awesome about the things all right. Well now. let's punch everybody in the mouth about some things all right so let's talk about the rnc right. Let's talk about the rnc rmc The gop chair ronna mcdaniel reports have now come out and jenna. Alice has been all over her. But man ellis was one of the lawyers for donald trump after the election and report for election for fraud. Now it's come out that one. Ag bar blocked the pennsylvania ag from looking into election fraud. That has come out now. Interesting why would you do that. These are the questions like why. How can you claim 'cause bar claim that there was no evidence of election. Ferris claim that if you blocked in let it happen. Yeah someone from investigating but either way. Gop chair ronna mcdaniel blocks trump election lawyer. Jinnah a o on twitter. This is why hang on. I'm trying to find the ruling party. Abandoned the president following the election. Democrats were able to steal a landslide. Victory for the most part of the prison history jim. ls tweeted that i'm trying to figure out. Last november trump campaign lawyers received an email that forwarded over republican national committee chief counsel justin rhymer or rimmer with gop official questioning the former president's election claims in the note roemer reportedly wrote to his rnc. Collies asking why they are why they were backing. Trump's unfounded claims of election for also expressing that the organization raised more cash battling democrats than challenging election results. Ellis who was having dinner with. Rulli rudy giuliani and former new york city police. Commissioner bernie kerik pastor phone around for everyone to view. The message reportedly left them stunned. According to the assembled group it was just one more example of trump having to fight the establishment which wolf entails in landslide. Finally there's a book. Giuliani who was trump's personal or at the time was insisted incensed by remers email according to the book. Can you believe this. He said they are back during us doing everything in their power not to help us. So basically here's what happened so for those of you who don't understand in november when trump's lawyers jinnah ls re giuliani. And all them were trying to fight against the election for on the republican national committee. Chief counsel basically told the entire. Gop do not help them because we raise more money as the gop fighting democrats instead of challenging elections that is verbatim what is said while he also expressed that the organization raised more cash badly democrats than challenging election results. So one and i've said this multiple times absolutely. Do i believe that trump won. I do. I believe it. I one hundred percent believe that donald trump won the election. But now we're finding out more and more and more that our own party mere days after the election says do not help seems like they are implicated somehow do helped out not help in these election fraud pursuits. So now that there's emails come out everybody's challenging ronna mcdaniel. Immortal mcdaniel is blocking everybody. It further goes on to prove what i've been saying since i got into this campaign. Ladies and gentlemen here's the truth. The rnc is dnc light. Yep there is an establishment or a system on both sides. It is dark it is bloody. It is nasty. Swampy we'll swap doesn't even cover it lie in if i win this thing and i don't know if i will. I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't know. I know that we probably should. Maybe but there are so many things that wanna stack up against us because we don't fit in the system look at every single new person. That's running for congress. Larry elder just announced. He's running for governor in california on nice. I didn't hear that just announced it. That is awesome but watch what happens. Yeah all right. You've heard me talk about my future recently. And i am thinking ahead and really concerned about the future of this country with a skyrocketing debt democrats in power and show. It's hor horrific stupid idiotic. Spending plan the future looks grim for the. Us dollar which is why started diversifying with gold and silver. We recently partnered with hartford goal. And i recommend you check them out. They sell physical gold and silver delivered. Right to your door inside your eye. Ra the process is straightforward and honest which is key why they have an a plus rating from the better business bureau in thousands of satisfied clients. When you call today they will give you up to fifteen hundred dollars of free silver with your first order. Some now's a great time to check them out. Call eight six six five three zero seven nine nine six or text america to six five five three two in a world full of fake news fake social media and fake money in things that are real with real value. That's eight hundred sixty six five three zero seven nine nine six or text america to six five five three to the entire a republican. All of them are going to turn against him. Was like the never trumpers power. They have their positions and they don't want these new cats coming in and with. That's what i'm saying. We've been the biggest bullhorn for republicans for the past four and a half years but now that we wanna throw our name in the hat now all the sudden we belong. We're outsiders we we. Uh oh no you can't do that lease gentleman. Here's the truth and this is an every state okay. I don't give a crap if you live in texas. I'll give a crap. You live in florida south carolina like we live. I do not care. There is a system in place that is designed to prevent every day average americans from a knowing what's going on or be ever having a shot to end up on the ballot. Yeah right before. Trump got elected. Newt gingrich went on tv and he said the reason they hate him because he wasn't initiated. He didn't go through the secret societies. And the families that you know are raising these politicians and it's the same with you. Same with larry elder saying with all the the reason that they hate people like me. And we've talked about this okay and and this is the this is going to be our last only audio episode right and i'm going to talk about the future of the show here at the end. I wish i could do it here. I draw a draw. I drew a diagram yesterday for jake on the board because we were talking about the campaign so imagine a bunch of people in a group right. There's a bunch of people in the group in the middle of a in the middle and then there's a straight line that leads down and with a bunch of people in a group straight-line leads down to one person. Okay that is what you would call the systems pool of people that they have vetted that have paid their dues in quotation marks. Which is basically Jargon for they show us something and we can control them and then they pick from that group and then there's a pipeline goes down and then that's the person on the right side of them is everyday americans that want to throw their name in the hat for public office in between them is a gigantic freaking firewall. That makes it to where they never have a shot ever k. Here's the truth. If you can't raise money you don't end up on the ballot just the truth It doesn't make sense. It should not be that way. I actually think we should pass legislation that limits. The amount of personal donations. You're allowed to do one hundred percents Because self made millionaire should not be allowed to buy their way into congress right okay. You can donate one hundred grand of your own money into the account. That's it everything else has got to be the people. Yeah and if you can't raise the money from the people guests freaking what. I got no problem with the money. Being raised out of state i really don't i don't have a problem with that especially with national figures to where you have people nationally that believe in the message that you're trying to do. I have no problem with that right. There are people that have national status. Okay they can't help that all right. If the people want to support them from out of state honestly in my opinion that kind of shows that they have even more influence than normal. Because maybe santa's that's right and we don't even limited state right. It affects us zero. But but but here's what's happening okay. You've got people from the nation that are realizing that we need different people so they are supporting from everywhere to try to ensure that we get different people into office even though you don't live in their state you know they're going to fight for the right things so you help put them in there. There's firewalls for the normal americans where they can't do that but they portrayed as they're not being a firewall so anybody can be elected which name put your name in the hat. But how are you going to fundraise. And these are the questions that if i do get elected i swear to you god and man and everybody i will get to the bottom of all of it in fagla damn dowry told noah. I said my speech. If i win will say that. We won this election to tear down the wall that keeps normal americans from being able to put their name in the hat as much as i want to say that. I'm a normal american. I'm not anymore. And i know that i had to work really hard to get here but i realized that i have assets to my disposal that other people don't and that's why they hate me because on the left side is an anomaly. Like me or a larry elder all these other people that are influencers to where you've got us blocked from raising money in the state yeah. I'm challenging an incumbent even though he sucks a needs to be kicked out of office no republican acid in the state is going to move against him because they've got this secret code it. No republican will go after another republican. That's why if we're being honest you have a lot of cowards in congress right now cowards. Absolute cowards. That's the truth. You think the left follows the rules. No they don't but but but but but republican congressmen and women and senators will not support someone even if they know. That's the person that needs to make it. They cannot support publicly that person because if they do they'll get on the bad side of the rnc there are systems in place to protect republicans whether they deserve to be protected or not. That is the truth. Ladies and gentlemen if were you. I wouldn't donate a single dime to the rnc. I would donate it all to the candidate you believe in because the rnc is just as against new people coming in giving the power back to the people as the democrats are they are. They are and i've learned that in two months running for congress. Look at chad. Pray through my good friend. Chad prater. He'll tell you the same thing. Yeah he put opposed the other day that said He learned cpac today that he has to raise at least thirty million dollars to represent the state of texas. Are you kid for a job that pays a hundred and fifty three thousand dollars a year. You gotta raise thirty something plus million dollars to be able to run a governor's race think about that for five seconds. What sits does that make a job that pays a hundred and fifty three thousand dollars a year. Why do you need thirty million plus dollars to run a race kind of bottles my mind. I mean but but it's true. Yeah these are the systems that have been put in place that we need to break down. This is why the rnc turn their back on donald trump. This is why you're seeing people that are true. Rhinos republicans in name only. There's a lot of people that don't go. Rhino actually means Like kin zinger cheney. All these people that are trying everything they can to get conservatives to leave the america first movement donald trump sent a clear shot at cpac to where he basically said. You know we're coming. It may not be me. I don't know if it's going to be me and twenty twenty four but we are going to. We are going to stack the deck to not only defeat the democrats but also defeat the republicans. It's about time because because they're just as bad. They are politicians and we have to make a decision as a country. Are we going to continue to allow third party. Bureaucrats make decisions for us In think that it's gonna turn out better for us doing it that way name one time in history that a politician made a decision for you without your input that it turned out better for you. I'll wait navy time or turned out better for the country. Mind you name it name one time that that happened. Yeah we'll give you thirty seconds like the dnc. The the american people on the left voted for bernie sanders and he won. Dnc said no. No no we know what's best for you guys. Were gonna put our guy in there and the rnc's bernie sanders wanted both times. Yes sixteen and in twenty and the same with the rnc. They're like no. Don't worry about looking into election fraud. We know what's best. But that's that's my point is the thing that has given the thing that hurt me. The most is that. I now realize that i'm not fighting. I'm not fighting. Take out somebody who forgot his place and didn't listen to the people district seven. I'm fighting against the system. The democrats and the rnc that enables that kind of stuff. Yeah yes it is literally us against the world literally in. You're seeing all over the country. You're seeing these candidates coming out that normally never would have existed if it wasn't for donald trump you're seeing everywhere but you're also seeing the very a companies that help those people get elected like arsenal media group and people like that amazing people over there. The did all of the amazing Political videos last year all those videos are getting throttled now. This year last election cycle tens twenty million views every single one of them. This one. you're lucky to break half a million. Are i remember the feeling you got as a kid getting tucked into bed or the feeling you get now in the arms of somebody you love. I don't get that illicit doesn't hug me that way. It's normally the other way round who comforts me. That's what i really wanna know. Well i'll tell you who and that simply safe. Of course. I wouldn't bring it to you unless simply safe had an award winning system. That has all the technology bells and whistles. You'd expect these days and they do and the thing is simply safe just makes it so easy. It takes about two minutes to customize the system on their website simplisafe dot com slash dear america. Look at super simple. Okay i did it. And i am not what you would call a handy person. All right Not a hansie person a handy person are. I am not the person you call when something needs setup but it was super easy. And i was able to do it myself and they are available with super amazing experts at your fingertips twenty four seven to learn more. About how simply safe can help. Protect you and your family visit simplisafe dot com slash dear america today to customize your system and get a free security camera you also get a sixty day risk-free trial so there's nothing to lose that simplisafe dot com slash dear america. Everything's getting throttled and it's all part of the plan. The plan is that the rnc wanted it to go back to the days before trump because a lot of them really enjoyed that americans didn't care. Americans just went along their day off. They didn't ask any questions. Speaking of asking questions. Let's talk about the people of taxes. Caso texas has got texas. It's in trouble ladies and gentlemen. Let me explain something to you right now so first of all you've got abbott who's endorsed by trump chad. Pray the governor's race allen west just jumped in. And i am telling you matthew mcconnell hey is super close to jump into this freaking in taxes and if you don't think matthew mcconaughey hey will beat greg abbott urine idiot. He probably would. You are an idiot. Thirty million dollars to win the race. Matthew mcconaughey change donate that in itself. You wanna talk about something terrifying. I now i don't think matthew mcconaughey on the surfaces bad dude right but but but but he is a. He's an independent. That leans left or or a centre-left call it so he's not a full-fledged like crazy leftist but he's also not read by any means right as he would probably like to say. I'm orange you know kind of thing. Because he wouldn't use that color but texas he's he's longhorn j. anyway okay so a majority of did so texas in trouble. Here's why george of texas house. Democrats fled the state on a charter flight. Bound for washington dc on monday in an effort to stop the passage of a measure. That would overhaul the state's election procedures in addition to other controversial priorities backed by abbot. Lieutenant governor dan patrick during a special legislative session so basically texas along with any other sane state wants to make it. The bill called for new limits on early voting and curbside voting band round the clock voting centers and voting facilities outdoor structures like parking garages eliminated straight ticket voting and limited. The use of drop. Basically if you want to vote you gotta show up to an actual voting precinct. that's it. Yeah that's what they want it so democrats literally hopped on charter flight. So first of all they paid for charter flight with your dollars texans. Because they refuse to take it to the force basically if they're not there they can't take it to the vote on it because they know that they're gonna lose in the vote. Grownups there's not gonna show up so texas governor. Greg abbott on monday said the democratic lawmakers who left the state earlier that day to deny republicans quorum to convene a special legislative session and consider a sweeping elections reform. Bill will be arrested upon their return to the little store. Stay romo three king the lord. Yes arrest them. Yes sorry if you're preventing democracy and you are a frigging politician. I also think that they should be immediately retired. Yeah yeah and you should hold special elections for every single one of their seats. Yeah i don't i don't understand. This is my. This is my true belief. If you become an elected official whether it's on the state side of the federal side you give up your right to do that because your job is to go legislate. That's your job whether you whether you like the bill that you're legislating or not if you don't like it your job is to fight against it in the chamber or whatever. It is not hop on a charter plane. A baby of which. You don't wear masks on the charter plane. So you admit that you know that the mask is stupid and you don't wear it because you're on a charter plane that budweiser miller lite on their bus. Like they're partying. You'll get to do that so not only should you be fired because you are not doing your job. You should be arrested for hindering democracy. Yeah i agree. Completely one hundred percent one hundred percent you have the freedom to make stupid choices and stupid choices lead to you in handcuffs sometimes Now i don't think the be imprisoned but they'll be find mean it all this stuff. I all heck no State legislator people only make so much money a year. I think here in south carolina they only make like ten grand a year or something like that because part toyota. He'll yeah right. That's your fine your entire frequent paycheck for being a state legislature. Pay any more money. That's how they get compromised. You know money comes into it anyway. So good for taxes there Speaking of the voter. Id thing or just voting in general. I pretty good tweet the other day. That said if you can you know they're talking about all these rural people that don't have the resources to print out or whatever they don't have the internet. Oh but you can go door to door for vaccines but you can't go door to door to get people registered to vote exactly Kamala harris comes out and basically says oh and this is what i wanna talk about between the biden harris administrations because they're two separate administrations and a lot of people don't want mitt that but they are. They're two separate administrations. Apparently they don't even talk directly to each other k. Kamala harris came out and again had another horrible interview where she basically said that people from rural communities like i'm from i'm from a rural community Still to this day there's only eleven hundred people in the town limits or whatnot especially said that they don't have the ability One she said they don't have a kinko's which i'm pretty sure kinko's has been out of business for like ten years. I i mean fact. Check me on that. But i'm pretty sure kinko's is not even a business bottom right. The point is gone. Costco or or office depot or officemax our Office supply or ups or anywhere. Yeah but she went with key coast anyway. Kink owes kinko's kinko's yeah. Anyway she basically says let's just basically say she says it. That rural communities are not able to photocopy to prove who they are and that by asking people to prove who they are. We are interfering with elections. The worst since trim jim crow laws. Yeah totally okay. So rumor mills around the board. And that's why. I'm so glad that we're able to talk on this show. I just hit the microphone. But this is why you need to share. Because a lot of times i love what don jr. said at cpac the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is about six months. We have to talk about the rumors right now. So the rumors are that the trump of the trump the biden admin is now leaking hit pieces on harris showing how incompetent. She is showing how she's failed with the border. And all this other stuff. Because they are legitimately concerned that she's gonna invoke the twenty fifth amendment on biden. He's realizing the scam that he's okay. No no no now. let's be clear. What biden has no idea okay. Yeah they'll biden. Admin is doing list okay so by as far. He doesn't even know who come. All here is the thing. Yeah yeah he has no idea. Oh kamala here. It's a really nice car that's him. Yeah there's no clue. I've never been to the kamal. I hear it's nice and then summer anyway There's a lot of people that have been molly anyway. The point is really old. Denzil had some anyway mantell. Yeah that's it not denzel mantell thank you very much. Yeah that would have been bad. Denzel washington sleeps with kamala harris anyway. Okay so that's that's an interesting thing to watch. Yeah okay because one yes. Biden should have the twenty fifth amendment put on him. I believe that so. I didn't know. I've found this out during the twenty twenty election from the white house. I was like there's no way biden's going to pass a physical to become the president. They're light what are you talking about. Michael phelps over everybody talk no no no but there are times. There's no physical to become the president. Like what i said. You don't have to take a physical to become the leader of the free world but an eighteen year old has to take a physical to see if they're able to join the military. Yeah vat the leader of the free world is in charge of like they did have to do a physical. They have to do a yearly checkup once. They're in oak okay. But there's no cognitive test right. it's just your vital signs and stuff like that. Heart's still beating your cholesterol's chorus. They is great your bmi index. And all that stuff. Fantastic all right. I think that they should be required to take a cognitive abilities. Test absolutely i think it should be mandated by the american people. The american people should mandate it. If you're over this age every single year you have to take a cognitive abilities test. Because the american people deserve to know the finger on the nuclear buttons. Yes art too. You know what that animal is. You know what i'm saying. What shape is this you know like they deserve to know if there if the leader of the free world knows these things. I think that it should one hundred percent be mandated by the by the american people that if you are the president vice president speaker of the house basically the top three right cognitive abilities test every single year period. I don't think that's crazy but biden will never do it because they know who fail it. Yeah another thing that we can on this show that we can't say or they'll just implication dr said that on facebook like Fact checkers find this. Be false information biden has never said that he would Fail cognitive abilities test. Yeah i know. And he's never going to I think that there is going to be very interesting. Things happened in that administration but the most interesting thing came out yesterday. Fao she came out there Basically saying that people that don't want to get the vaccine potentially are a death sentence But the most interesting this politico by the way so. This isn't fake news. Politico is actually a very well known saying This is the scariest part out of all of it. We know they're going to go door to door which i raised the question of. How do they know what doors to go to. Yeah that's my biggest question or they literally just going to go to every door or are they gonna go to very specific doors which means they're going to have to violate hippo and find out who's had the shot who hadn't in areas etc but this is a big thing that came out in the politico article yesterday the biden allied groups including the democrat. National committee are also not thinking about planning to engage. Fact checkers more aggressively and work with sms carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that has sent over social media and tax messages. Let me read that just one more time just in case you didn't quite pick it up. The biden allied groups including the democrat. National committee are planning to engage. Fact checkers more aggressively and work with sms carriers. That would be your cell phone carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation seeing those barriers lessons or removed entirely. First of all that doesn't make sense to what they just said. They just said that they're more aggressively. Going to fact. Check people on social media and the sms carriers are going to dispel misinformation about vaccines which means sms. Karg carriers are going to monitor your text messages. And i guess that means if you say the vaccine is a sham it will let you send the message. Yeah i guess. I say that's the house we go knock on the door right but then the very next thing they say. The goal of this is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting the vaccination tation because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely. How does monitoring your text messages over vaccine misinformation. Help people find the bus station to get to the nearest vaccine. And also they've been helping since the beginning get people to locations. Everybody knows where it is like. What rock or people find me. One person doesn't remotely know where they can go to get a vaccine. Find him bring them out. Put them on. The show explained to me how you did not know these things. What is it like living under. What is it like living under the are we talking about. The homeless populations living in tent. City i promise you they know where it is. Yeah they pass. Cvs and walgreens every day they know for fact but this is politico in this is dnc messaging and nobody says anything they go from planning to engage fact checkers more aggressively and work with sms carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that has over social media and text messages and then they jump right over to left field in say. The goal of that is ensure that people know how to get on a bus to find the vaccine centers. That's why so funny when they trump a fascist and the conservatives are fascists. It's like y'all really want to see this flipped around so there's people that are defending biden and they're like oh you're outraged by this as well. The bush administration did it too. Yeah i'm well aware of this. But at least they kind of tried to hide it. Okay all right george. Bush didn't come out on tv. And go or monitoring your text messages. Be careful what you say right by and the dnc. Just don't give a crap anymore. They're like oh by the way we're listening to everything you say. Were what we're paying attention to everything you taxed. I literally text my dad yesterday. And i put it all over the internet. And i'm like. I wanted record since they're paying attention getting the vaccine neither. Is anybody in my family. Also don't knock on my door. We are living in a society that we are allowing to deteriorate before our very eyes. We are allowing this to happen. How can americans. Americans read that and go. You know. that's what everybody's doing you know better than a fascist republican like trump. What do you expect you know blah shot. Yeah just took the shot. Don't you wanna die like the rest of the. Here's the thing freedom. Does it work that way. And here's the other biggest thing that i want to talk about. It's the last thing i want to talk about today. Is we have fundamentally the new york times over the cuba thing. That's going on right now. The new york times said freedom and other antigovernment slogans. The new york times said that. Nice literally the hold on i. I know i took a screen. I wanna read it verbatim just so i'm clear really quick. I guess i see i mean. Freedom is less government. Okay new york times. Talking about cuban's denounced misery in biggest protest in decades all right near ties. Caption writers is shouting. Freedom and other anti government slogans. Hundreds of cubans took to the streets in cities around the country on sunday to protest food and medicine shortage in a remarkable eruption of discontent not seen in nearly thirty years. So you know the new york times equates freedom to an anti government slogan in it occurred to me that they're not wrong in today's society the word freedom is an anti-government slogan yeah because america america is based around the principle. Or at least we were. The government has no authority to give you anything. Nothing and people need to hear me when. I say that i'm our freedom. Based off our constitution is given to us by our creator a higher power than anything on this world life liberty the pursuit of happiness freedom of speech secondment all those rights in those freedoms are given to us by god. You can call it a hot. You know higher power create or whatever is got in. The government has no authority to challenge or take away those freedoms because it's not theirs to give. Let's say kill. God which is what they try and right but what is happening is the government is trying to make you believe that you have what you have because of them. Does anybody know the government's actual role the actual role of the government. The government was created through our founding fathers. Our founding documents that the only time the government stepped in was if those freedoms and those fundamental rights were being infringed infringed upon their job is to step in to defend those rights in those freedoms right. Not tell you what you're allowed to say what you're not allowed to say and this goes into everything. If you go down that rabbit hole people were talking about trump's Suing of big tech and how trump's never go to win because big tech is a private company so to tell big tag that they have to allow certain people talk is infringing upon their first amendment rights and the government is not allowed to do that. i would say that the government is actively infringing on other people's right not enforcing it as right. Because how do you become a business. How do you become a corporation through the government through the government the irs and everything issues you attack. Id number the government signs off and says yes you can be a business right blah blah blah blah blah. So therefore the government. Not making sure that every the government's job is to make sure that no one's rights are being infringed upon right. It's the opposite. He's but that's the government's job. Yeah so if if a company is not that claims that they are pro freedom of expression. That's what facebook claims. Okay if if facebook was to come out tomorrow and say we are pro. Everyone that believes what we believe. Then they'd have an argument. We told them. Don't like conserve we conservatives. They came out here. Anyway i tell people this all the time. I'm white dude with tattoos. I know that there are certain places at around three o'clock in the morning. That i probably should not be walking alone by myself okay. There are certain things that you know. You just don't do certain things but facebook claims that they are pro free expression and facebook and twitter have even had issues with other countries. that have said nope. We're not using your platform because you're pieces of crap and they say you're infringing upon people's rights takes brushing or meddling in our government's job is only to enforce and defend our freedoms all americans freedoms not billion dollar companies nine hundred billion dollars facebook worth when we suppress our rights and our freedoms come from god. Our big tech company doesn't get to decide what we're allowed to say in how we're allowed to say now. I don't think that a company should be held liable because somebody goes on there and decides that they're gonna shoot a bunch of people and they recruit a whole regime to go do it right. Which is there. that is what they're using. They're like that section two thirty protects us from that these crazy people get on here and they do a whole bunch of this stuff and then people get hurt because of it. Okay the same thing can be said about. Tv heard tucker. Carlson say something because he said that that made me think that we need to go shoot this person. Yeah but if they if they censored all of it it'd be one thing but louis farrakhan can talk about jews being parasites and insurance sumi insurance. Because i know one day somebody is gonna do something dumb. And one of their favourite people's going to be me you know to this day. It still haunts me. The ashley babbitt. Which by the way who shot ashley. Babbitt i don't think anyone really knows a cop. One of her last tweets. She retweeted was me. Yeah her second to last tweet that she re tweeted on her. Twitter account was me. Yeah you'll think that bothers me. You'll think that doesn't haunt me. It does but i can't control what other people do right in the end. Do i think she should have been shot. No she never gun should have nothing. Where's the outrage. She's a white air force veteran. I'm pretty sure air force. Please please forgive me if i'm wrong about that. Know a vet That's the world we live in people. That's where we're at. That's why we need real people in dc mia khalifa. The porn star are. I didn't recognize the name when you first said she sure. Sure you didn't make a who anyway former porn star mia khalifa accused of inciting protests in cuba cuba. So desperate. now they're going after a porn star all right so first of all. Khalifa is not only a porn star. Which hey. I don't hate 'em porn stars. It is a horrific abusive enterprise that takes advantage of women and pornhub shot pulled off the internet Any free streaming porn service should be pulled off the internet especially in today's age access. That children have But either way. I also you know i mean it's america if you wanna watch porn watch can't afford ten dollars a month because she's your mash. Yeah i mean you know that there are literal. Have pause titanic on that anyway. I think that. I probably almost froze that to the tv as a kid. They definitely pause that so we can divert for just one minute. I went to the movie theater. Six times when tight can't say that was my first boob. I ever say all right. I'm just be for real and it was on a big screen and there was kate winslet. God bless you may Anyway bad so the other day mia khalifa was talking crap about america on the fourth of july and she basically said that america was a bunch of you know we still land and we do all this and we do all that and blah. But now they're saying well who does dictator. Okay america's dude exchange for cuba. The cuban dictatorship thinks me. A khalifa is partially responsible for the protest and folding on the island freedom. Loving people have taken to the streets in cuba. In cuban dictatorship to protest oppression in the regime wanted. I think she is well. Who does tear shively arrived. I made it tweeter star. He told his country that she's being used as a tool of america to help insight protest. You might think. I'm kidding. But i'm not you can check out the video from giancarlo. Sopa below I thought this. Would you joke when i heard of it. But cuba's dictator. Did in fact go on national television this morning and accused me a khalifa of working with the american government to fuel yesterday's protests against the regime. He must have missed her. July fourth thing talk about how much she hated america. That's the always stupid thing. Fbi literally in fbi documents show that they confiscated a lego set of the cap. Have you not heard this. Are you kidding me okay. So you know the fbi. Still looking into january six up insurrection. Or whatever they found a well they initially claimed. They found a fully assembled capitol building lego set at one of the insurrectionist homes. A lego set. It's laco like i said. Yeah now it's come out that they've retracted. That and it was not a lego set. They found the lego set box of the capital in one of their homes. And so hanging. Lego has got to be freaking out right to losing their minds. There is an actual fbi paperwork. That's sites the finding a capitol building lego set. Wow and what are the insurrectionist homes. That's that's how far we've fallen folks. That is where we are. I you know at this point. Mike lindell save us. Please please. I love it. What if mike lindell turns out to be the savior of american. Who's right the whole time. You know what. If i mean this dude has been rung through the wringer and what if he turns out to be the guy before porn stash and i love mike lindell. He turns out to be the savior of the world. When it's all said and done use code riot. Forty fifth pray forty-five anyway all right lays german. That's all the news today. Here's what's going to happen. And here's the future is premature. Not yet jake Here's what's going to happen. Moving for in the future. As i said we are moving forward in this being the defacto means that we communicate with you guys What that means is we're fixing to redesign set and so we are going to get ready to start videoing The show again and you will be able to see the show on rumble and rumble. Only we will attempt to post clips on facebook doubt. You'll sim but we'll do that And get ready. Because the charlie kirk thanks fixing happen everything we do is going to be swipe up and subscribe to the podcast etc etc etc because it is of the utmost importance that we grow this thing because this is how we communicate with you we are fixing to start going after syndication All the above and that is the plan because we believe that is important for us to stand up against big tech tyranny and this is how we do it so thanks for joining if your new share this episode on your social platforms and encourage others to subscribe every single person listening. You're literally on your phone. Give us five stars right now. It helps us in ratings. Thank you guys so much for listening and this is just the start and we'll see again next time.

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#108 - About Passwordless with Kurt Johnson

Identity at the Center

1:00:40 hr | 2 weeks ago

#108 - About Passwordless with Kurt Johnson

"You're listening to the identity at the center. Podcast this is a show that talks about identity and access management and making sure who has access to what let's get started. Welcome to the identity at the center. Podcast i'm jeff and that's jim. Hey jim hey jeff how are you. Oh not so bad yourself. I'm good man. I've been given thought to podcast. I listen to a lot of podcasts. Outside of recording this podcast with you and i'm wondering what is your favorite podcast other than identity at the center. Of course i'll be honest. I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. And i barely listen to this show because one i record it. It's i'm here. i'm present for the conversation. I know what happened. And then i edit. Which means i'm usually listening to the show like three to four times so when i do listen to a podcast and has wrongly couple that. Listen to right now. With any type of regularity it would be conan. O'brien needs a friend. It's usually something around comedy him talking to folks and just being conan o'brien himself and then the other one that i like is i'm a big fan of anthony. Jessil nick so anthony. Just nick and greg rosenthal have a comedy podcasts slash. Whatever you call it called The jesernik and rosenthal vanity project jr vp. So i listened to that with some regularity every at least every couple of weeks or so. What are you listening to. I'm a big fan of the the risky business. Podcast with patrick gray. A think in the space. You've gotta you've gotta tune into that It comes out every tuesday. That's a fantastic. One where they pretty much talk about The infosec headlines mostly about companies that have gotten ransomware recently and then of course huge baseball nut so I listen to baseball america podcast. I listened to one called thirty with murdy murdy being a A yankees broadcaster. There's some other identity and access management pie cash. I liked to listen to like the hybrid identity protection. Podcast shoot. there's a few others There's one that was put out by The sea so over microsoft called security locked and then there are a bunch that are put out by npr. Which are really radio. Shows that have become podcasts. As well like this american life freakonomics hidden brain loser just oh and marketplace. Of course i am. Those are i. Don't listen to all of them every week. But that's kind of my listening list. That's a pretty healthy list. I mean for someone who doesn't listen to get you just named off like seven hundred different shows. Yeah well i'm. I'm hoping that somebody can find a nugget there and but i definitely recommend the the risky business. Podcast anybody's listening us on a regular basis also should be tuning into that right on. So why don't we change this podcast over to maybe talking some identity. I think you know as we're talking with our guest introduced here in a second. We were kind of looking at ideas on. Where do we take this episode and we settled on the past present and future of strong authentication. Which i think is an amazing title if if we do say so ourselves and the person who helped us come up with that. His name is kirk johnson. He's the vice president of strategy and business development at beyond identity. And want to welcome you to the show kirk. Thank you very much. Nice to be here jeff. Jim great the yeah. Thanks so much for joining so the company that you work for beyond identity beyond identity dot com really plays in the strong off games. I'm really excited that you're here to kind of help us understand what is strong off. What does it mean and maybe helping us understand. What are the differences may be the space. Because i think there are some things to to kind of consider on that but as this is the first time on our show we like to find out our guests origin stories when it comes to identity and infosec. So maybe you can kind of recap You know your your career from from from our perspective at the identity level. How did you get into the identity space. It's it's something that you chose or did it choose. You know it definitely chose me has a bit of an accident in a bit of an evolution at the same time because i started in identity before we even calling it identity management. I actually spent years as a industry. Analysts does working with a company called meta group that's now part of gartner and one of the areas that i was covering was the whole. It service management help desk. And so i was getting calls from clients all the time around. What could we be doing to reduce the number one. Cause my help desk. Which was password resets in this company. Corey on was on my radar as an early stage startup. Who was doing self service password reset. So i was digging into them to see if this was real and really became focused on the whole self service initiatives. And how do you reduce the burden and pain for these poor helpdesk agents and beat people and as i was kind of getting deeper in this and watching curry on kind of just launch itself from its early beginnings it kinda hit me as well that if i kept being an analyst i probably would be one the rest of my life and i was kind of tired of being the roger. Ebert wanted to be a steven spielberg. Get my hands dirty on building so actually join curry on right when they were about twelve people and as we started to evolve from password resets in talking to help desk people about this great tool that could reduce their calls as we're getting deeper into the sale cycle the security people and see sows in particular. Going you're doing. What with passwords. So tell me a little bit more about this. 'cause nobody's touching that it's so as we realized we had to shift our sales strategy to really appeal to the security side and show this as a better way of doing it in kind of people right in sticky notes and all of that and we were looking at automating other tasks in doing this hitting the joiners. Movers lieber so built one of the first provisioning systems so we were doing all of this provisioning and identity governance in administration before we're calling it and then finally started to see. Identity management emerge and. That's where we really started. Branding around that term identity management when the regulations in governance came along around who had access to what we had this great system that was setting up modifying them and turning them off that we now have a basis of governance solution before we were calling it Identity governance and administration. So i spent fifteen plus years akari on watching it from its early stages we ended up selling it to p. e. company and was involved in some tuck in acquisitions actually merging it with a core security. Which was time for me to leave. After that amount of time and i actually went over to a fintech company early stage five person company doing electronic payments we were doing great efficiencies and reducing cost and pain. But i realized. I really miss security. I i miss dealing with companies that were solving real problems that you know they were coming under attack. And how could you help their businesses. Keep going that after. We sold this fintech company. After a couple of years. I immediately went right back into security and joined an email. Security company focused on cloud email and anti fishing but realized i was missing the identity side of the houses well and it was great to be back to security but i always kept my eyes open and what was going on with. The identity were alden. I think it was the glazer that said it's me. One time he said you know identities like the mafia. You can leave but you really. Can't you know thinking you leave. But it brings you right back. And i got this call about this company in stealth mode that was looking to do some really interesting things around eliminating passwords. And i had to listen and It was pre revenue to be part of a self company sounded incredibly intriguing. The co-founders are jim clark. Tj german lockin. Jim tj just. Have this incredible. History of starting companies and and building them into Absolute name brands like silicon graphics and netscape and at home networks and web. Md and to be part of working with alongside them to start this company and then frankly to get back into really kind of drew me in so came back in around january of twenty twenty and You know i'm back. I feel like somewhere out there. There's like this identity boogeyman and they left the identity horse head in your bed so when you thought you you're out you know all of a sudden you wake up now back in. I'm back into security. Never mind and this is how we know each other. We actually go back. You know this makes me feel like fifteen years or so. Because i was actually a customer of korean at one point and i'm absolutely one of those people is all right. We're having trouble of passwords right. And this is by like early two thousands and koreans reach out to ended up kind of going with going with them and helping us with a variety. Different things so we go back from that perspective so it's always fascinating to kind of think about where where you might be decades later and the relationships that get made and this is why. I think you'd never burn bridges right and put yourself off into professional mode so that Because you never know what's going to happen and especially in the identity spaces such a tight knit group where we see a lot of people who move from organization to organization but you know it's always ever expanding but there's a lot of familiar faces at you'll see over time the longer you stick in the business so it's always great to see folks from korean and or i should say the band formerly known as korean still. Today i was at identifies Few weeks back. It was like old home week. You know seeing all these all races different companies. Perhaps but yeah it really is and it's been interesting to watch do as identity and has really become far more prevalent and security in the early days. It was kind of like a felt like the outsider. But now it's like we're sitting at the cool kids table in the cafeteria. So darn straight. I love it. So i've been hearing that. The passwords been dead for for years. Now i think like bill gates. I'd like a decade ago. Was dad and we keep hearing every year that instead. And i think that's kind of where we're heading now right. Is this really. It's not that it's really the strongest indication play. So when we talk about the past present and future of authentication it probably makes sense to kind of start with the past and understanding you know. Where have we been. We all know password suck where we now and then what's next right. Maybe maybe can kind take us through that journey a little bit here to kind of level set the conversation for folks who are listening. Yeah it's amazing to think it was kind of in the early nineteen sixties. The passwords were first introduced at mit and working within kind of these data center environments and they served a purpose to enable more controls insecurity around access But then when we hit the nineteen eighties instead our co-founders jim clark and tj germ logan. Jim was the co founder of netscape. And jim was the Jim was though founder of netscape and tj the ceo founder of at home networks. Which was the first broadband provider to the home in the to them. Play a large part on making the internet accessible to like everybody and passwords just exponentially grew in proliferated to the hundreds of thousands even millions so by the time. The nineties came along. That's where the focus was all on. Well we have to make them harder and longer and higher entropy make rotate them more frequently in expire because as more passwords game. more password. Theft came so you really look at passwords and you talk about how much they saw him and they suck for just about everybody except for the attackers right. Because you don't have to break in anymore. You can just log in and password reuse and misuse and getting stolen left and right. Ib we've really just created this environment. Where the vulnerability and risk is greater than ever before and so then. We've kind of moved into the band so he created password. Managers could at least have one place to go and let them recycle in. Move your passwords. But how did you access a password manager well with the username and password so now the compromise could open the door to even more attacks. Oh along came our good friends multi factor authentication two factor authentication. Which the idea was that this plurality of security measures could hopefully increase the overall security. But really what we saw was a significant increase friction for the end user waiting for a code or needing a second device or on my phone. I had a have a folder prior to beyond identity with a bunch of multi factor authentication applications. So where do i use the word microsoft authenticate or at the u. salesforce authenticate or over here. So you know. It's no doubt we've seen the adoption of mfa be so low. I think four five one. Three search company says around fifty percent adoption. Adc told us it was closer to thirty percent and there is which is significantly less than any other security functionality like firewalls or intrusion detection even endpoint which is hitting ninety percent. Plus why is that. I mean the friction and experience for end users as i said is painful and they're also complex and expensive to deploy so even where you see. They're deployed it's often just for a subset of users or The capabilities maybe just for remote access. Maybe just for a privileged. So i think as we've created this environment where we're putting more and more of these multi factors. It's kind of where we are today this. This world of whack-a-mole has to stop where the overwhelming majority of attacks are still based on stolen in misused credentials. The world economic forum's over eighty percent verizon is somewhere over sixty percent but name your number. It's a lot right. And and as i said. Attackers don't need to break in. They just log in and if this creek teacup vulnerability of this credential is being used. As a matter of fact valid credential misuses at the source of these attacks so it is real passwords. That are getting stolen misused in guests and you know it. It can't continue. You know the the reality is whereas vulnerable as we've ever before so with traditional. Mfa the password still there still exists as part of that equation and we prayed at this band aid to deal with. What's become an open wound in organizations. And you know maybe you don't use the password using a magic lane or something else or an sms but these are coming under attack. So are they more secure. Sure but does it really slam the door on credential attacks not really a matter of fact. It's opened the door to other kinds of attacks so we have removed sms and also sim card swapping took place. We have email links but email gets compromised. We had the attackers doing these push attacks. Where if you hit the organization which with enough notifications and pushes but not p. Somebody's going to click. Yes that's me so we've done all this and create greater user friction than ever before. Clearly we know we have to change right and so. That's why i think where we are. Today we're seeing the rise in early password. Bliss initiatives the alliance. There's a lot of things that are trying to bypass the password. And i think we all have to agree. The password has to go which is creating rise in these new approaches but at the same time really are eliminating passwords or are we just kind of making them. You know less part of the equation. So today you know you start to hear more reno. We've been talking about. Identity is the new perimeter for a while. now can't really call it the new perimeter anymore. Because we've been talking about it long enough that that statements even become commonplace too. But if you think about it. I believe that even the notion of a perimeter is is wrong. I it's the idea that things inside. We trust while those outside. We do not and authentic. I heard this used. I think by Four five one research as well. That authentications is like a bouncer at a nightclub. Once get past the door you can do whatever you want inside the club so it really is forming to. You know. that's where we are. Where do we need to get to and that's really leads to what's next. And what does this ideal solution look. Like which was really behind the beginnings of our company when we started to look to foreign beyond identity. We looked out in this environment and all the the pain and the friction for an users but also the vulnerability for organizations when we looked at what does modern authentication look like. We know it had to eliminate ads words. We know you have to houses validate the users in the devices. They're on you need to make it easy for users to gain access and not create friction in that process while at the same time reducing. It and support costs and that kind of leads to kind of the beginnings in the fox around things like zero. Trust in really kind of where we are. You know bottom line regardless of who. You are where you are what you're on. What you're doing. You should be going through an identity system to authenticate and authorize. What you're doing but i think it needs to move more to like a toll booth rather than a toll bridge which is where we are today. Push everyone through a vp and check the traffic. Check the devices. It's not wrong but it's very hard very expensive and you don't have to do that to really get a good understanding of who the person is and the device they're on and what they're trying to do to create stronger authentication so we need to move to an environment without passwords making it easier and the big part is that it's not a one and done it needs to be continuous. You can't just look wants and let that person in but you need to be kind of looking at what's going on on a continuous basis with the ability to take action and deny that authentication. So you know we talk a lot about you know where we're going and you know bottom line is you can't have zero trust if you still have a password and if you do. You're already starting with a fail. Yeah i think that the The passengers on obvious weakness right. I mean we used to call it a cottage industry to get these credentials. Sell them on. The dark web was reading an article prior to starting this. According to the headline article dark reading the average cost to buy access to compromise company. One thousand dollars sound even a cottage industry right. That's a thrift store that's walmart or a blade special for going out and getting access and included in. That is a thousand dollars. Get you credential to vpn or to rdp. So if you're not at least using multi factor. We said this a million times on the show. You need you absolutely. Need to be using multi factor. But you know kind of play on what kurt was talking about is you know with zero. Trust methodology or mindset is you know everything's cover and you can't just think about it from your external points of entry Kurt at i think you know you gave a really good overview about the past president future. The future is your trust. Your trust is also right now. But you know i think and i think lewis if you're listening to this show you probably already are like okay guys. Yes you beat this into us. We know the password socks right. If not a is not strong enough control in this day and age and i think everybody would say if i can flip a switch and get rid of the password. I would do it but it's it is hard right or maybe you're gonna tell me is not hard but i'm thinking okay. I've got an enterprise guy. Hundreds of systems. I've got a different entry points. I've got some new technology. I've got some legacy. I've got cloud applications need to be pastoralists or do we need less passwords. Yeah it's a great question. And i think it's i saw a survey that said that the average business user as one hundred ninety one passwords and i i was challenging that on a road show we were doing with a c. So event and all of them started talking gano. Yeah i looked at my password manager. And i've got three hundred. I've got two hundred ninety. And i think some estimates is over three hundred billion passwords so passwords have truly. I mean this day and age kind of launching company during a pandemic which wasn't really part of our original playbook but a lot of things in perspective. But i think the rough analogy is that passwords are virus. You know they have spread like crazy and free hundred billion of them out there. You can't just wipe them out overnight but at the same time we need to you know. We need the hurry immunity. We need people to be taking the steps to the approach is on what you can really do. And i think that's where the term password lists in. The industry has a number of different kinds of players approaching essen yet. We really are trying to distinguish between password as one word versus towards password dash less than that password. List isn't just avoiding the use of password you know it. The term meaning abroad set of things but were not trying to just eliminate from the end user side of me. The whole definition of password is part of shared secrets. Right shared secret service that one person in the other side no it so if the individual knows it and it matches what sitting in the database of a system or a directory. Then we will blessed that that gives you the opportunity of tacking either side so if you just kind of eliminated from the end user. It's still exists out there. It's still something that could be stolen. They can get added. They can use it for another account where it's being reused and even if you make a more difficult password that can still be entered in a phishing attack as well so i think it's important where we're talking about this that the opportunity and the capability to truly eliminating the password does exist but you really wanna look at. What are you replacing it with. And you can look inside. The architecture and st that password still exists anywhere could you report that still vulnerability or did you replace it with something. Such as asymmetric cryptography or public. He's and binding them to the device carrying that with your identity. I think this was our thinking behind starting beyond identity in the first place. I it's about eliminating the password. But binding that device in identity leveraging existing proven technology around asymmetric cryptography digital certificates. But do so. In a way that you can make this government level security available for the masses and make it easy to deploy which has not traditionally been the experience of many who dealt with. Pk are digital certificates but that capability does exist. We need to really look at how we can apply. That part of it was when we even watched our solution. We give the password lists authenticate or away for free. Because that's just piece of the equation. Let's do our best that we can actually help eliminate the passwords out there and really eliminate them from the system but with three hundred billion of them out there. We know that's going to be a pretty big task. Could take some time. So i think there's a lot of different kinds of definitions around pastoralists and especially when it comes to kind of the the different vendors that are out there right. So you're you're one of several that. At least that i know of and i'm sure there are others that i don't know if when it comes to strong authentication and trying to remove the password. Is there a common approach that vendors in this space kind of look at as far as okay. Is it really eliminating the password. Or is it obfuscating the password somewhere behind some sort of hidden layer that it's still exists. But maybe you're just not not aware that it's there hutto i guess. As an industry perspective hauer lists companies coming at it. Because then. I think what i'd like to talk about next would be okay. So why are you special right. What's the difference in the way that you guys are approaching it. I think it's part of the concern. I mean obviously because passwords are so horrendous. The idea of password less is a catchy phrase. It's i hate to say buzzword but that's truly kind of it's becoming and i think it's it makes it challenging for those looking at potential solutions to really distinguish between them because there is a lot that an organization has to do to really understand their goals and initiatives but also what the capabilities because there are a bunch of password list technologies which i would just say our ways of bypassing them using something instead of a password but that password absolutely still exists. And you you know magic links. Sms all of those are ways of kind of avoiding password. I look at my banking application. That i use them. I phone i use face. Id to get into it. But they're still a password. They're all it's really end. The passwords even taking place in the authentication sequence. That's starting with face. Id so. That's what i was saying before. We really have to look at the just making it. Less visible or less used by the user versus absolutely eliminating altogether a part of the naming of our company beyond identity was like it has to go beyond just the password angle but since a lot of it is just bypass it from the user experience saying. You really have to look into the architecture. And can't we truly eliminate it and that's been our goal is that we really want to eliminate the passwords and all the risks and vulnerabilities that. Go with that but doing so. In a way that makes true secure authentication capability make that government level security available to the masses and that was when we were kind of looking at the market. You know it when we first went out there. We had a lot of debate to not even call ourselves password list. Because we didn't want to be just lumped in with a bunch of of convenience technologies for an users yes eliminating friction for the user and improving. The experience was absolutely paramount to what we were trying to do. But the purpose and the goal was really to create a security solution and really bring that to the realm of identity. Not just the kind of change it in the sequence for the end users. So i i really think that's you have to take a look at that from an architectural standpoint. Are we really eliminating or we just kind of not making the end user. Used them as often so. I think that's really interesting. Because i see a lot of these technologies kind of. Don't come across our at least my view of it and asking us to look at it and provide thoughts cetera. And that's one of the first question usually asked us okay. So where's the password right. Because usually there is still a password somewhere. So if i'm listening and hearing what you're saying it's your actually eliminating the password. There is no password in play which immediately piques my interest. So i guess help me understand. You know we definitely you know. Try not to do commercials for any specific product. But i think this is an important distinction here where i'd like to understand the approach that you guys take from a product perspective when it comes to beyond identity and going truly password lists. How do you do that. Yeah so really. What we did was we. We took a look out there and Really looked at. How could we take battle-tested proven technology. Extend that down to the end user in their device in the extend the authentication experience so coming back from our founders with jim when he founded netscape that was the first creation the vessel from the browser to hair all gamal. Who's the father of. Ssl sits on our advisory board Have been working with jim back in that day as is hellman of fame when you really look at these core technologies that are in place in over. The last couple of decades really haven't changed that much. Ssl is now t. l. s. encryption but still using x five zero nine certificates and that is how all immediate that's what secures trillions of dollars of transactions every day on the well that kind of in the old way. We had the user of a password to access these machines but the machines used certificates interact with each other technically private keys verify through certificates to validate that when you made a purchase on amazon with pay pal that it was really pay pal on the other end. That amazon was communicating with and so we looked at taking that technology and really just extending that down to pull the end user and their device into that chain of trust and that what we recognized was that you know kind of back in the old days. It was kind of a thankless task for anybody to want to be a certificate authority for every end user out there and and frankly there was no place or nothing to do with a private key. But come today where you now have these devices that have the teepee and secure enclaves which provide a perfect insecure way of housing that private key and we created this notion of a personal certificate authority. Where every end user and could be their own. Ca without knowing what ca is or even does and so we're not reinventing any cryptographic protocols or algorithms were using these time-tested proven capabilities to pull that end user and the device into the equation and the processes that the end user gets the beyond identity authenticate on their device. They register that initial profile. In basically what you've done is created a certificate chain or the identity is the root of that chain and the devices are just different lengths on that so what that does is allow the end user to extend that chain with various devices and no one devices dependent on the other so unlike traditional pk. I were you remove one note and all the children all along with it. This allows you to prune that tree and extend that chain. You lose one phone. You could use any other device to extend that in creative Extension of the certificate chain on a new device without calling. it helpdesks or administrators. And so being on that device offers a lot of interesting aspects you know we can actually interact with that advice to assess the trust of the device at the point of logging and by being on advisor can speak to the security of the device itself when that end user is logging. On by anchoring the key in the hardware you eliminate the mobility of that key as credential can't leave the device. It can't be ported. From that device we disrupt the lateral movement or disrupting valid. Got credential misuse by housing. It in that security. Pm but recognizing one of the benefits of passwords was the portability that you can be used from any device since still have that happen. We brought all of that down to the beyond identity solution. So leveraging standards like x five. Oh nine and t. l. s. creating a notion of a personal certificate authority making it easy for the device itself to authenticate and thus it's the analogy is airport security. You have to show an id so we know it's really jeff for it's really jim. We then still have to go through the The metal detectors do the same thing. Authentication make sure it's you make sure it's your device. Make sure that device is trustworthy at the point of authentication so kurdish conceptual of some pecan of Quite frankly goes a little bit over my head so it is definitely a very technical conversation rape it at a conceptual level mentioned the binding of a device. So how does the binding of a device to a human improve or strengthen that authentication experience when you really look at it that the device itself as opposed to just being familiar like. Oh i've seen kirk use this device before it's part of the database the strength of actually binding and identity in a device together In my opinion becomes a building block of zero trust. You verify the identity you actually bind it to the device that is trying to access and then that can be transmitted and carried with you throughout the journey of transactions. If you look at most two attacks today the really hitting on those two factors right. They're either trying to compromise the identity and pretend they are somebody. There are not really do stolen passwords or other even attacks on mfa or they're going after the device itself whether that could be malware ransomware down through that so most zero. Trust initiatives that we've started today are kind of looking at the various components is single threaded indicators of risk you know is this kurt but what of kurtz trying to access from a computer in the library that's covered in malware and don't know who's been used it before it's my kids laptop talk everything else on it and don't know if that thing's been compromised so you also have often seen a lot of organizations especially as we went to the whole work from home through this pandemic really focus on mobile device management. Mdm or in point detection and response dr tools because they needed more visibility into those devices and what was coming in or pushing them through the vpn but many of those are very intrusive technologies that go beyond in enable you to really see a lot of the information data on those devices in frankly putting cameras and dressing rooms can cut down on shoplifting right but we really want to have that as a mechanism for security. Some people feel the same way about these. I don't want this on my personal device so you know from our perspective it was like let's bring these factors together and really completely changed the notion of having just looking at the security posture is description on his. Firewall enable visit a personal device or a corporate device is jail. Broken is malware running. I'm bringing that at the point of authentication. So that's what i'm saying. It's like the airport analogy. It's me. I also know it's my bag and i'm gonna scream that bag but unlike airport security i want it to be done without friction so from an end user launch an app this runs in the background making sure passes all that but we can actually at the point of authenticating verify that only a laptop description enabled can access patient data. If it's personal device maybe a judge should get office suite or email. But i wanted to be a corporate device. Corporate managed device that has more of this secured lockdown capability before accessing. Aws or get harbor. Any other more sensitive applications. That's really is kind of where we need to evolve this too and that's what we feel when we can really kind of make those one in bind those together. It's a lot different than just looking at them as individual statistics and then you can look at things like the location in the network. You know if i know. It's kurtz device and it's trustworthy at the point about the negation. Do i really care if it's coming from a starbucks that i haven't seen before. Because i have good high assurance and let's look at the rest of the indicators from like a behavioral analytic standpoint. So what somebody's doing is it. A risky action is that look atypical than what they do. Then yeah let's let them verify or let them step up the authentication. So i i do believe there's all the aspects of kind of really looking through the broad zero trust but this notion of really kind of bringing that identity and the device together as one we just feel greens such a higher level of assurance that then doing that in authenticating with the symmetric cryptography and certificates and not a password. The end user doesn't even know what's happening behind their you bring. It's one of the rare times we can bring higher level security and better user experience at the same time. I feel like this is an area that couldn't exist a decade ago. I feel like this is an area where the modern advances in technology and the you know the shear power of computing right that you have at your fingertips fingertips at these days right. Your phone might be the most powerful device you have in your in your entire life right. It might be stronger than even your computer and when we start talking about cryptography and being able to act as you know certificate authorities like this is this is type of stuff. You weren't going to see on your old blackberry or windows phone or things like that. And i think this is where the zero trust. Part comes in as well right. We're talking a lot. I things you just described are typically what i see like under conditional or adaptive authentication rules right taking a bunch of different signals and then figuring out. What do you want to do with that information right. Is it safe do you. Do you meet the The level of assurance that you want. And maybe there's different levels of assurance if i'm trying to get to the cafeteria menu who cares right but wide open but if i'm trying to get to the secret sauce for or or the you know the recipe for kfc chicken right. Maybe there's a few a few more hoops to jump through to get to that. So i think it's interesting that i feel like the the advances in technology space have definitely enable this because i go back to the original statement. I said well. Bill gets at the passengers deadly ten years ago. But i don't think it really could have been. I think what he meant. The password is really hidden behind something. Else right biometrics you know. It may be so i think. That's that's kind of where. I've seen the industry go. But i'm also a little bit skeptic. So i hear all this cool stuff. I want to go password less but i also hear from a lot of different vendors and i think the distinction comes in too so microsoft. Tout's password list through windows. Hello apple has it through the various mechanisms of Touch id and face idee and if. I'm a skeptical. See so i guess the question. I'm gonna ask. You is okay. So what is the value proposition. Here why do i need an ad on a senate shocked like aspergillus when microsoft or octa or paying or whoever right is telling me already have this as part of their solution. Is that something that you can kind of. Help me understand that context. Absolutely i i think obviously with the risk and vulnerability of passwords. This is an wide movement to reduce that risk as much as we can and everybody kind of trying to get into to help support. That is a good thing though. That's what i was saying it but it goes beyond that. You know just the elimination of passwords. I it's a critical component to it. But this notion of zero trust and device providence and security posture are critical aspects. Take that beyond just kind of authentication experience. And i think that's kind of been a different approach from a lot of the philosophy that you shouldn't have to have to pick up a second device in order to log in and even though does avoid password. Yeah that's great but we can bring that even one step. Further in our goals and initiatives out there as an industry being on that device gives the additional benefit of a better user experience than you're right it was before we had t pm's enclaves of these devices that really wasn't audible or as secure but take week. We saw this with apple back in the tragedy. The san bernardino shootings. They wanted to get access to the pin code to get into that iphone and apple was like we can't do that so the device security built in taking that but then kind of extending that through Broader means was really kind of what we felt was where the industry needed to move to. So yeah you there. Are you know free features. You can get with a lot of these vendors and in my belief afri feature can be like a free puppy and really understand a lot of them require. Md emory dr. To be in that equation to give the device security or you have to stand up your own certificate management system or they'll do it for you which comes at a cost and that's not easy so really kind of where are thinking in the goal was was that yeah you can leverage the enclaves and tps to really enable the private key but the notion of a personal certificate authority. How can use do this without knowing they're doing. It is a critical ingredient. So i think as customers of these vendors it's great to see what kind of features they have but the reason we felt that we create a company in create a premium offering is one hundred percent focused on the delivery of the most secure authentication experience possible. Stop credential based attacks right in their tracks but make it a better experience for the end user so and don't do this just for the specific systems of that vendor but in a hybrid environment in our philosophy. Was that the approach. We're taking finding identity. And the security posture of that device bringing at the point of authentication. Our first was doing this for the workforce and we didn't want to replace the identity providers we made it so we can integrate directly into octa paying for druk microsoft and working just as a delegated identity provider to interact with that system. Which means it doesn't disrupt. You don't have to change what you've done in those systems you don't have to configure. Ap is to make this work work with that environment then. We took it through cuts to customers as well and customer loggins through interaction with siam or even a nasty k- that can be embedded into the app. So we provide this secure easy form of authentication freakish friction this authentication for customers and end users. So you're bringing up some some really good meaty topics which i think are the things that you know our listeners. I am practitioners over people who are evaluating and procuring and then having to deploy technologies like password lists and their environment and so we have martin kupa on the podcast last week and we talked about. The puc process was to right way to conduct. Pse is not just as jake something like the leadership com compass or the magic quadrant. Just take this solution. That's you know. Ranked the highest in that analysis. It's really you know that can be a guide right. That can be a data point But you need to conduct some kind of proof of concept. And so what i wanted to ask you is me. I'm sure in your role you've been involved with a lot of proof of concepts where companies are evaluating pastoralists and what's your takeaway on. You know some of the best ways to do that. What have you. Where have you seen where a customers just doing it right. They're they're they're really evaluating pastoralists in the right way. They're asking the right questions. Whatever versus what. What's the wrong way to do it. Yeah at part of. It's really going into understand. What your goals and initiatives are we were talking about this before password. This means so many different things that you're not gonna find a laundry list of leg. Rip responses or check box items. Because if the systems are meant for very different things one just to do multi factor authentication one to provide a full secure authentication experience. It really is going into your eyes open to. What are you really trying to accomplish here and belief that our goal is to really truly eliminate that password is really going to provide the better long-term experience really understanding. where does that occur. Can that car so going into it. There's there's two sides this we want to improve the security we also want to reduce the user Friction and make that a good experience and those have to be critical components. The proof of concept in you need to test us. What does it take to deploy the solution. Do you have to make configuration. Changes to your systems or api changes to the applications at your authenticating to how easy can get stood up. We challenge them to time us. From the point we start to the point we finish and see how quickly we can actually integrate into that system and not cause any disruption to your current environment but also with the policy itself as i mentioned bringing that device into it is something very unique. That most solutions aren't doing. Is that something important to you. And how do you want that to occur. What policy makes sense really thinking through your organization on where do we want to be more restrictive versus. Where do we want to be more open with that access as well and the most important pieces testing this with end users and say probably the most uncomfortable or awkward. poc's where only the it people are testing it and it's the security people testing it. It's like put it in front of end users. Who are the people who are challenging. Call the help desk a bunch and see how easy it is for them. Because when you change the user experience especially at the point of authentication you're going to have changed behavior that that's impacts and so even when it's easier it can also be somewhat disruptive we we actually saw this through kind of some of the user experience testing. We were doing early. On because the whole notion ideas that launched the application and redirect and the authentication the price the public he gets issue signing. It's a privacy. None of that's visible to the end user. They don't have to pick up our app or pick up a second device so they were opening the app and all they were knowing they were in and they never entered a password. and so that. Calling saying hey. Something's wrong here if somebody's in my account so we actually had to create some graphic showing that something's happening behind the scenes here. It's doing something so you know all okay. I feel comfortable that was authentic and we almost brought it too far so really understanding that user experiences just a critical piece and testing with the right users. We love the poc's because we feel once we take the password away from an end users can be real hard to give it back. They don't want to move forward. Yeah no absolutely. And that's i think a step that organizations needs to do more organizational change management really thinking about the impact the customer experience that they're creating whether even for internal users. I remember when i first got into i am the mindset was okay what are the different them and i am. I'll see you have to have a really good user experience but for employees. Who gives a who i think. That mindset a shifting alive because i think tools are better now right and that becomes a differentiator but i you know you've been great with your time but i did want to ask one more question. Which is you know. Selfishly from consultant perspective still getting asked about self service pasture reset a should we be looking for solution are how do we approach self service password reset to me. It seems like the answer to be. Why even if you haven't gotten there yet why go there. Why not just go right to passer lists so can password. Liz be substitute for self service. Passer reset and if so what are kind of our their trade offs. I mean is it. A is a good substitute for self service faster reset we offered. Say you can't steal a bike. The bike doesn't exist. The password doesn't exist you can't steal it but they also don't need to reset it anymore. And so it's actually kind of a true benefit that often prompts a lot of these organizations that as much as they built many of these tools to do self service reset it still is a major problem for these helpdesks. So yeah if you read that out. Altogether you've got nothing left that needs to be reset so absolutely can change the game and and i think part of it is as we've looked in you're asking before a tower different certainly logging onto corporate resources. Logging onto consumer resources are important. You nailed it jim. There's been this mindset with with our employees. We can get away with a lot more. We can make it more painful but even that hits ah level at some point. We're seeing it with other things like you know we're we're seeing us being asked to integrate with like the cyber ark sin psychotics and beyond trust to the world privileged access. So why should we be pulling these things out of a vault with. Mfa as well if we can truly authenticate that experience in the new area. We've been getting into his even with devops that you have developers who are signing code and interacting with these repositories all the time and they do them from account so you have daffy duck one-two-three and you don't know who that is and obviously with things like supply chain security and we saw with the solar winds attack that you wanna make sure you know who is signing code. And what device. They're doing it from we have applicable. There're a believe me. You wanna talk about an environment. You don't wanna make friction is your developers who are writing code and signing code in so kind of looking at all these different use case scenarios the level of user friction is critical component to wet. But yeah let's. Let's finally stop the calls to the help desk in customer service for forgotten passwords. Or how many times have you gotten something from service that said hey are asked database. Looks like it may have been stolen. We don't know if your stuff has but we strongly recommend you change your password so we create that spiral all over again to something new. I have to remember that. I'm bound to forget as well. So the best way of eliminating the problem his truly eliminating the problem right. That's a great answer so kurt you've been super generous with your time. We always like to wrap up each episode on the lighter. Note right talk about something fun and so we when we were pre gaming for this episode. You mentioned you're from boston. Obviously that's my favorite or maybe not so obviously but that's my favorite donut shop which is dunkin donuts right. That's where it started in boston. And i recommended to jeff that we could have an entire episode on donuts. And so maybe we will do that at some point in the future. Let me know. i'll be there at the center. Don't end the center donor holes But i'm also. I'm from augusta georgia right. That's the epicenter of golf of the golf world and at least one once a year does and you mentioned that. You're an avid golfer. So i wanted to ask you. What is the best part of your golf game. And what's the worst part of your golfing. What what what gives you hope that what what keeps you coming back to the course and then what is it that tells you you're never going to be a scratch golfer. The greatest thing about golf is even when you're doing terrible all day long that one great drive and it just gives you confidence you can comeback and think through working on my game. I've really my driving has gotten much better off. The tiem feeling far more comfortable than ever before. And it's the all drive for show. Putt for dough. I can't putt for anything to save my life. And i watch these pros analyze these greens and squatting down in. Yeah i'm out there squatting. Down staring at him. And don't have a fricking clue what they're actually gonna do. And unlike why did my putt go that way and it really started looking into it and just stuff. You know the worst thing you can do for your golf game is go to a startup because there's nothing you need to do then play more in up doesn't really help you on on doing more of that but i just realized how many strokes i'm spending on the green and three putting that it's why i don't but i'll go back to the range and just start hit long balls again feeling good about myself so it gives me the confidence that hey i can do this but then when you really get down to it. Yeah that's that's where it when you look at the pros and just that big huge book. They're carrying in their back pocket. I could never imagine having one of those. But you realize the. And that's what i love about the game right. It's it's out there. The environment ben to augusta which is probably one of the greatest places i've ever been to customer national to to see how beautiful it is you're outdoors. You're interacting having a good communication in good time with friends and even the frustration parts. You can kinda get past again. But yeah if i could learn how to putt into save so many of those strokes. I think i could probably do a lot better than just going back to the range and trying to hit bombs you. You're listening to kurt here. And i was listening. Hit and good drives and can't putt. I meet we thought of happy. Gilmore was the king of the master. Drive golf anywhere. Near as much as i used to and actually took lessons when i was much younger in my guess mid to late teens but i would say. The strength of my game is the seven iron That is the club that i can. I can nail just about almost every time. I cannot hit a wood or a driver to save my life and it shows because that's where my lessons ended. i learned how to hit irons. And we're working our way up to the woods. And i stopped taking lessons and i never actually got to the driver. The the three would five would etcetera those sort of things. So i struggle mightily to hit any of those clubs yarmulke putting i guess you know not not perfect at it but i'm also not looking to beat but give me the seven iron and top golf Afternoon and and i'm all over it. I love is that combination physical and thinking. There's a lot of thinking in it but you talk about the lessons. It's incredible how much different advice you can get. You could just drive yourself crazy that these little tiny nuances can completely mess up. Something that worked really well. In the past so yeah. I'm always debating. Go take another lesson. But i do my best to try to stay away from you too because i learned to many different things that never seemed to work a lot of conflicting ideas. Jim what about you about your golf game well. Lot of what. Kurt was saying was resident with me. I think i two thoughts with everything was one top golf. I've really enjoyed. I think that's a fantastic time and you're drinking beer while you're golfing to me is just the way to do it. The second just talking about Augusta national golf in general made me think back to the mass of humanity following tiger woods as he went from. Hold a whole and whatever. You think tiger woods right. The the guy was the best golfer that i ever saw play. I mean you know the way he could perform in the clutch unbelievable and i think that takes a special rare individual who can have all the pressure in the world to you have to perform right now and to be able to do it. It's almost like podcasting almost well. I feel. I'm working with the tiger woods of podcasting here with the two of you. Flattery will get you everywhere so thank you very much. That's actually an excellent spot where he can leave it for this week Before we go any final thoughts. Kurt for folks. Who are listening out there and you know they're interested in password lists what are some some key takeaways. They should take away from this conversation. I think really looking at it from the notion as we were talking about before password less versus password dash. Let's let's get the herd immunity. Let's truly look to eliminate these and frustrate the fishing thrush frustrate the credentials stuffing attackers by really eliminating that threat. But yeah. I'm a big believer in the in the notion of zero trust. We need to know the identity. The device the network the location to behavior. But paul to those identity and device together bring those signals at the point of authentication and the rest of the wrist signals. We can look at from true behavioral analytics to kind of assess risk. I we're moving in the right direction and the bottom line authentication no longer can be bounced. Let you in or keeping you out. It needs to be continuous in taking a look at these signals on ongoing basis is the only way of really truly reducing. The risk out that it's okay to get smarter and passer way to get smarter so Good thoughts there. Jim about yourself for this week. I mean it's. It's what i talked about earlier with the companies being compromised credentials being sold for one thousand dollars. It just shows you the the the massive massive scale which is being don passer has to die is the only way that these credentials are being sold. Thousand dollars is that. It's the simple same old south of people for using passwords or using common passwords. He's gotta as just an insufficient control for your organization so multifactoral indication's step one getting rid of the password. Step two and if you can go right to step to all the better for you. Multi factor one of. Those doesn't have to be pass work. So let's get away from thinking that it has to be password plus something better. Let's get the passer equation. Can still have multi factor. But you don't need a password to be one of them. That's a great point right. Password is not part of the mfa definition. It just something. So that's a good one to go That's a good way to end on. So what are we going to leave it there. If you'd like the wear more beyond identity you can find them on the web at beyond identity dot com if you want to learn more about us on the podcast itself Visit our spanking new website. That's been redesigned and updated with all of our fancy new logos identity at the center dot com and you can also hit us up on twitter at issy podcast. I'll have some links to all of our lincoln information in the show notes as well as a link to that article in dark reading that jim had mentioned about how cheap relatively a thousand dollars for a compromise the company to ticket their passports. Please do not use that for bad things. A thousand dollars in bitcoin is like you know point zero zero zero three right now and it just seems again and it just change again and stop chandra follett appreciate everyone's time this week. Thanks so much for joining us. Kurt jim thanks as always and for folks are listening. Thanks for listening please. Like subscribe rate chair. Whatever it is. Share it with a friendship with an enemy. Don't care lawns get shared. Get out there with a folks and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. Thanks for listening to the identity at the center. Podcasts like what you heard. Don't forget to subscribe visit us on the left identity at the center dot com

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Ep. 316 - How an Asteroid Changed Neotropical Rainforests

In Defense of Plants Podcast

1:06:36 hr | 4 months ago

Ep. 316 - How an Asteroid Changed Neotropical Rainforests

"Hello everyone and welcome to the defense plants. Podcast the official podcast of indefens- plants dot com. What's up this is your welcome to the show. How's everyone doing this week. I know i'm doing great because i'm super excited to bring you this episode today now. Many of you will be super familiar with the asteroid impact at the end of the cretaceous period that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs. It is probably the world's most famous and well-known extinction event and while the dinosaurs steal the show in terms of the dynamics of what was going on at that time the bigger question is how did the ecosystems respond specifically for this podcast. At least how did plants come out on the other side of that giant asteroid impact. And that's where people like my guest. Today come in joining us. Is dr monica carballo. She's a post doctoral fellow at the smithsonian tropical research institute and her interest focus on how tropical forests changed after the asteroid slammed into the catan peninsula to do this. She looks at a lot of fossil evidence. It's really interesting work. Because it looks at sort of the shape and function of the leaves to understand what was going on with the climate at that time and you will be really amazed at how much resolution and information they can gather just by looking at the shape and size of differently fossils most importantly they have fossil's from both before and after the asteroid impact which allows them to answer some really important questions about how these tropical ecosystems have changed over time. You know we take for granted that these are old biodiverse habitat types. But they haven't always been the same as they are today. I don't wanna steal any of her thunder so you know what let's just jump right into it. This is an incredible conversation so without further ado. Here's my conversation with dr monica carballo. I hope you enjoy all right. Dr monica carballo. Thank you so much. For coming on the podcast. I'm really excited to talk to you today. But first let's tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what it is you do. Well thank you very much for having me and you said my name is monica. Carballo a botanist and they pay biologists and i started the evolution of tropical rainforests using the plant fossil record especially leaf. Oh so. I have undergraduate in biology which is in columbia and i always knew. I wanted to study plants so since i was a very very young little girl. I had this book in my house. You know basically told was reading and talk about you know these little green package that leaves had could turn on light into Sugars and it was just fascinated by that. Like oh my god. They make their own food. And i would go as a little girl to my mother's plan just like there will be a racy. Tropical racy really stick. They have a very thick epidermis. So you can actually just like peel out the skin. And i would just like look at them and tv's like what i would think back then were chloroplast with felix some tiny little green packets. Obviously they were non but to me. It was just fascinating and bad kind of spiked my love for so. I did my undergraduate in. Because i wanted to study plans and then The love with lucien. I wanted to know what was the origin of all this tropical biodiversity and somehow i got directed toward Fossil plants Back in that day. there was a big project going on collecting clan fossil's in northern colombia in the hunt for mission which is a fifty eight to sixteen million-year-old deposit and this deposit how what would be the earliest known tropical rainforest so i got involved with that and they wanted to collecting and it was just so amazing to be able to split open iraq and finally or find a flower. I just fell in love with it after that. I did a master's in geosciences. Because i want to know a little bit more about puzzles. And what could we learn about these off of the posits That was penn state university. And then i did my phd in plant morphology With dr karl close at cornell. University racing graduated Three years ago. And after that i joined the smithsonian tropical research institute of postdoctoral fellow and i've been studying the fossil record of tropical rainforest. So it's rare. That i get someone on the show that they start so steeped in the world of botany and just loving plants from such an early age and that's a really cool perspective to bring to the table because you know realizing it early on sets the stage for so much and it's so awesome to hear that trajectory kind of go from i like plants. I also like the past. So let's try to figure out that out and then sort of the morphological. I mean the nicholas lab is very sort of abstract but also very physical when it comes to plants and then taking all of that together into the world of palea botany to try to understand sort of the history of these ecosystems but also are planning my hats off to you. That is incredible. It's it's a lot i mean. I love plants. I basically i always wanted to do a phd. Because i wanted to understand how plants work and how they evolved. So it's it's been fun I've been quite privileged to you. Know have great mentors and and be able to study. What i what i love. So i think in that context coming in with more of a traditional like botany modern day flora kind of background. Do you think that really strengthened your dive into the world of hardcore paleo. Botany because i mean it's one thing to be geosciences understanding sort of the rocky the history the deposition that sort of stuff but to truly understand what these fossils can tell us. You really have to know a lot about extent plants right yes yes definitely I feel that if you come into palea. Botany from Geoscience perspective you have very good understanding the environments of deposition environments Assume setting and. It's a very interesting and it's very important thing to how but in order to really understand these ecosystems how they work how they looks like you do need a very profound understanding of of modern fund holiday work how can you interpret their morphology in terms of what they do so. Yeah i agree. It's it's it's a very valuable tool I think it's yeah. Because i can imagine it's one thing to think of plant fossil is sort of being this nice complete. Almost scanned image of what that plant wants looked like but most of the time you're dealing with fragments or bits and pieces that are disarticulated. You don't know what goes with. What and oftentimes. It's really hard to even find a taxonomic affinity especially the farther back in time you go. That's right so i mean plants the ticu lead right so when you find fossil plants you can find you know isolated leaves you find their pollen or some flowers. Her mineralized tree trunks. It's really really rare to to actually be able to put these little these pieces together and reconstruct the whole lot and you know. That's that's something that's Really complicated and it would be wonderful to have the whole organism. We could learn so much from that. You know the hydraulics. We could under have a much better understanding of exactly what is it. They were doing back then. So that's why you have to be a little bit of a addictive and interpret these. These isolated fragments. That's one of the reasons. I kind of focused most on lead but even though leaves get a lot of information we always have to think that you know these are not just slated things. They're part of the whole organism. Any really have to think about organising biology all these fun in order to say anything. I mean hypothesize anything because these are always going to be. Yeah and that's an important thing to to admit and it's good when you hear it directly from the scientists mouth. I mean we can read all of the scientific reports that we want that kind of make it sound a little bit more certain than a lot of the stuff actually is. I mean even with modern science. There's there's always a degree of uncertainty with this soda. Here that a lot of this inference and sort of not speculation but like you said hypotheses. You're checking yourself all along the way you're not trying to claim more than than what you really can given the data available. Yes that's that's absolutely right and and that's something we always talk to keep in mind because it's so so it's of the scientific process everything that we say our hypotheses and it's important to look back at. What is the evidence. These hypotheses are baseball. And you know that that's the way constantly checking ourselves and checking all the new ideas that are coming out every day and so in the context of where you've been working in recent years you know paleo. Botany is a deep invest field and plants more so than literally most other terrestrial organisms have a deep deep history on this planet. So where do you begin to even pick a timeframe to start asking questions and just be curious about i. Is it something that just kind of. Well here's the funding. Here's what we have go for it or do you kind of come in and go i really like the end cretaceous well In my experience are kind of just fell into the paleocene and then a natural question. Was you know what happened during the cretaceous extinction that leads duties pacing for. But it's it's something that i truly believe that it's easier to think of something interesting. You know so. Many interesting things have happened in earth history and during evolution there so many interesting questions You know from early land plants all the day. Look what was there. The all aji you can look at the permian extinction. You can look at climate change in the fossil record. So there's there's always something interesting no matter where you look i mean as as i see it There's so much to do with botany today right you can. You can look at so many different aspects but then you can just take that same scenario and just pull it back in time. So you know. It's almost like an infant universe of research. Oh no no. That's actually really exciting. Because obviously you're curious person or else he wouldn't have gone through all the steps to get to where you are today and i'm sure that no matter where you could situate yourself on that time line like you said you would find interesting questions and ideas to pursue. But you're working in a really interesting time in our history and especially as it relates to sort of what we see on the landscape today. Because i think you know you hear tropical rainforest you hear flowering plants. I mean these are really iconic ecosystems and organisms for most people. I mean even. If you don't have an interest in plants you can recognize the flowering plant and you can go to the tropics and experience all the amazing diversity but when you stop to think about like it wasn't always this way. There's never a point in time in our history could go be like. Oh that's how it was before. Now we're just gonna return. No it doesn't work like that. And so you know what to you. Excite you kind of i guess in a big way about this transition from the cretaceous to paleocene or paleocene pillaging can use either. Okay yeah. I mean one thing. That was really hard to read my my my head around was the fact that critique cretaceous rainforests were different being. You know being a tropical creatures and it's really hard to think about anything else in the tropic mean being dominated by by flowering plants and not being just the exclusion of green. It's it's mind blowing. So even when i was looking at the fossil they looked weird. There you know you definitely recognized that there are lowering in there but the leaves look weird you cannot really pinpoint to what they are with their affinity is it could. Have you know it could be part of a big clayton. I mean you definitely recognize you know. This could be a alien thing but you can't really pinpoint to to what family they belong. It's it's weird and then when we started putting the pieces together you know thinking about this in a little bit more of an ecological perspective. How were these orest rowing. How were they were working just realizing that. You don't have that vertical complexity that you see today in tropical rainforest that you had probably what were open. Canopy four is but it was still rainy. But it wasn't you know we see we see rainy. Rainforests and the olympia today and there. There's a lot of conifers there. But it's still not a tropical scenario. Not warm all year. Round trying to imagine god. I think it's the most challenging thing because there is certainly nothing. That's an analog to anything that we find today. There's no analog that so it became it was it was hard but at the end it was kind of fun actually thinking okay. I mean if we had a raw tropical rain is what happens if we were like you. What happens when we remove all this vertical complexity and just put in a bunch of monkey trees or cowry pine. What would that look like. How would they ecology of the forest. Change was was fun. Yes especially just even having that background in modern. Botany like you said that trying to figure out what it looks like even before you start doing the science but you know you mentioned that you're looking in areas that were tropical at some point whether they looked the same or not or had the same sort of structure or not is a different point. We'll get to in a second but you know even from the geological perspective when you're out these fossils. How do you know you're pulling out fossils from a tropical ecosystem versus a temperate rainforest ecosystem. What kind of clues are you looking at to to kind of infer. What kind of ecosystem. This would be before you even start thinking about the composition and structure of it all on a great question. So that's that's rich. Leaf fossils are actually pretty full and that's because Lee fossils sleeves in general. Tell us a lot about climate. You know water. Availability is a great thing. And it's it's one of the primary factors that determine league size. The range of leafs is that we invite in a forest. There's very little water availability. You will just not find any leaves their large. Everything's going to be really really small. So these fossils. When you start finding you know pretty large sleeves. That's pretty indicative that you know it was. It was rainy There was a lot of water around leaf. Margins are also very useful at telling us you know what the temperature was like and that even though we don't know exactly what the controlling mechanisms for that are there are several ideas out there In general you know the colder you get the more leaves with teeth. You're gonna find so in the past forest. We were finding very largely almost all of them. Had you know entire margin they had drip tips which is also something. That's pretty common in tropical rainforests day and kind of follows that me that way leave. Look in the tropics and we can. We can look at that and actually estimate you know. How much rainfall did we have back then. Also there there's indirect ways of looking at temperature in these areas that have to do with the geological record so there are some pretty good thermometers to call them that way from deep sea. Sediments that are now known from that. Same time period and that are calibrated with With how modern organisms work. So we know that it was fairly warm across the whole cretaceous and daily. Seen temperature didn't fluctuate too much and we see from belief that it was rainy both before the extinction and out there and it's really cool to see how sort of the background you have. And then the physical aspects of what structures a plant in those attributes that are shaped by the physical environment and the climate and all that really lends well to this type of work. I mean. I don't think you could really do this without having a strong background in that. But you coming in with it really probably set you ahead of the game and allows you to kind of breeze pass a lot of the basic questions and kind of start getting into it a little bit deeper but also it's really cool and again this is how science works but to see all of these different lines of evidence that kind of confirm one another. It's not just well. I see this type of leave. I'm going to say it's this. It's no this matches with this matches with this and then even if we look out in the ocean sediments confirming a lot of what we're figuring out here so you got a lot of data to support with a lot of confidence that these are really strong hypotheses to be working with. Yeah no that's that's that's one of those really cool things about you know. Looking looking at the fossil record you can pull independent lines of evidence together from the geological record and then observations. That have been made on plan. You know since Over a hundred years ago you know the correlation between Rainfall temperature and the size is something that was actually described in the early nineteen hundreds. And then because you know this is something you find fossil leaves. It's really useful to be able to say something about climate. They have really look through the years into this correlation and tried to put it in a quantitative. So it's actually standing on the shoulders of giants science science. That's really exciting. And so let's kind of put this bigger work into context here again. You're you're working at this boundary at the end cretaceous which you know for many many many people listening. If you are at all familiar with dinosaurs you know what happened at the end cretaceous. A giant rock fell out of sky. Obliterated mush of life on this planet and super famous. But you obviously know it for the sake of dinosaurs you get that. Shot of the t. Rex looking up at the asteroid. That's going to wipe out all of its relatives. But what you see. Far less talked about is what happened to life. After that. i mean we know. Mammals took over but none of these organisms could exist without the plant communities. And i feel like i mean maybe this is just my biased perspective having only looked at this remorse pop science background. But it doesn't seem like there's a lot of attention paid to what was going on with the flora of that time period both before and then right after sort of looking at. How did plants fair after a massive extinction event brought on by an asteroid. You're absolutely right and especially because you know. The unpretentious has become such a huge part of pop culture. We only think of dinosaurs quite funny. We actually don't in general people don't really realize that around seventy five percent of all life on her went extinct ammonites in the ocean extinct. A lot of marine reptiles went extinct. And we don't really realize you know seventy five percents of species in in the planet with extinct at that time from the plan perspective. People don't really talk too much about it. There is very good research on it especially in temperate zones and go neha in new zealand in the great plains in the us but it hasn't really kind of stuck to popular culture. And i think one of the reasons is that we don't have you know an analog to dinosaurs we don't have you know that big iconic group that just disappeared completely instead what we see. In ecosystems that the extinction was not homogeneous around the earth it was harsher arts and other and we see that there is more of an ecological change rather than having this big tax on on the group just fade away. This was i sad by kirk johnson. he found in castle rock This beautiful flora that looks like a rain forest stated to be just right after the extinction so he was kind of a first to show that you know cretaceous ecosystem. We're very different before the extinction. What appeared after the extinction. I was actually something completely new. And that's really powerful if we think about the evolution of terrestrial ecosystem because it's a complete reset like now we're seeing. You know this catastrophe. Mayday completely set on terrestrial plan and allowed new communities to build in to evolve and with those new plant communities. It's not surprising that you know. We have a complete bottle turnover. You have the age of mammals just because dinosaurs disappeared but also because you know they build these close relationships with flowering lynch when you think about it from that context again that plants are setting the foundation for every ecosystem interaction that we really see and it skills all the way up to the top predators that don't touch plants other than to hide within them and so recognizing that like you said is very powerful but then trying to understand it as a completely different thing because you know you're working with what the fossil record tells you and again from my basic understanding. We have a good grasp on what's going on in less tropical areas. You had mentioned a few habitats there but it seems to me a little bit more. Like especially in areas like south america around the equator. What happened with tropical force is a completely different story. And is it because you know. The fossil record is just much harder to grasp on tropical areas. I mean what what really kinda limits our understanding to date on what was going on with tropical ecosystems at that time period. Yeah what did you say. It's really really key. And there hasn't been much of a continuous tradition or historically hasn't been really big in the tropics and that's primarily because fossils are hard to find you know in order to find fossils rocks and in the tropics. You know everything's covered with meditation and it's great there are very deep foiled so in order to find. You know fresh rock. It's it's really hard. And that's actually one of the reasons why people there is this common belief in the past that you know nothing would fog allies in the in in tropical rainforests. Because you know everything would just get eaten or rotten and it's true. It's just that there's a bias in in how we find these fossils and it's really hard one thing related to that too is As biologists we always have this this conception this idea that tropical rainforests as we know them today kind of evolved with the rise of angiosperms. So i remember even as a as an undergraduate student there. There's this idea that you know flooring plants juice they diversified they took over and they kind of immediately built these Rainforests as we know them today but there was no evidence on that. Except for the fact that you know they're really diapers today and we see in the brussel record that in general they diversify pretty early. So that's also one of the kind of key points that this research is no showing is we have collected annual thousands of leaves over the years within fifteen years or more Collecting fossils because they're hard to find We go to fill stone minds. We go to coal mines. We look at what road cuts although those are always much harder. Line in order to build these really large status head and in order to have kind of a something it would be really representative of of how these forests looks like in the past and you know we were finding things that were unexpected to are kind of like what we thought things were during the late. Cretaceous it's so exciting and yeah reading your paper which was published in science huge congrats to you and your colleagues for taking that up but also you know looking at your methods. I got anxious just reading those going like fifteen years and all that work so i mean my head is off to you and your colleagues. This is incredible work. And you found some really really fascinating patterns but you can also pat yourself on the back that by putting in all of that effort. Your resolution is barn on one of the best. I've seen in a study like this. So let's begin there. I mean just having that resolution it spans the both before and after the cretaceous extinction event. Right and that's that's a really amazing place to be botanically with the fossil record. Yeah so what we did was You know because it's not easy to find also leaves. What we did in general was kind of combined. Two different things we looked at the pollen and the paul is great. Because you know it's a lot easier to find. It gives us a very high temporal resolution so kind of like by stitching together different alcohol. We were able to have a full record of the whole of the maastricht in so starting seven hundred million years ago and the whole of the paleocene so it goes all the way over to fifty seven fifty six years ago. And it's really really good. The pollen can tell us a lot about diversity. It can tell us a lot about that proportion of flowering plants versus Ferns versus. Jim no spurned. But it's not really good at telling us about you know berry definite or high resolution of fox affinities and that's where the leaves coming to play the leaves because they represent more of a local environment because of the way they fossilized We're able to see you know we can maybe identify some plant families that we know. Today we can also infer a lot about that ecology of how how the forest looks like so these two different lines of evidence. They complement each other. Really really well. And i think that's why you know we will lose. Probably wouldn't be able to tell this story if we had looked at these things separately before we get to the leaf fossils. I do want to spend a little bit of time. Talking about pollen fossils. Because that's wild. We're as we record this spring. In the northern hemisphere everyone is cursing the sheer amount of pollen. That's in the air right now. But that is a method plans have been using for a very long time and not all of that pollen ends up fertilizing ahve you'll nor does it always end up in your sinuses so a lot of it ends up in the environment and think that you could a fine fossil. Pollen is rooted bonkers to me but also be able to use it to some extent. I mean like you said not getting the resolution on tax and omic affinity but there's enough of morphological sorta trend with pollen grains to be able to say. Okay we have jim burns or maybe even this sort of family. I mean the head. That's got to be one of the most abstract forms of paleo. Botany out there but also one of the most important. Yeah absolutely. it's definitely one of the most important because you know you can find it almost anywhere. It's it's it's the it's the best way you know the most complete record of plants on earth and Yeah what happens is that you know. Plan their producing all in all the time in you know. The temporary areas mostly concentrated during the spring in tropic. Mostly all the time trees flower different times so all this production you know pauling. Even if it's transported by animals even plants are animal. Pollinated so that you know it rain. Also the ground It flies around and eventually it will end up. You know in something like lake deposit or or these mud stone deposits that we find in the fossil record and what we do is we take you know pieces of fresh rock kind of mass rate them with them. Through acid to dissolve the whole. You know the mineral stuff and because paulin has for pullen in this compound is actually previ- resistant and it's still organic. So we're able to separate that organic phase. Which would be the paul and per se from the mineral side is located. And then what we end up having you know an assemblage community of different pollen grains and sports that are actually representative of you know before in a regional and we don't know exactly how much of it represents the it's not a local representation something a lot more regional because pollen travels especially if you know it comes from plants are pollinated so from that. We're able to have a pretty good idea of what those communities look like based on your pollen. Morphology is a four from fern. Is it something that you know when pollinated and has more of a conifer like more volatility is something else and andrew sperm the further. You go back in time. It's going to be a lot harder to pisa apart. Some specific groups especially within the angiosperms tricolor pay fallen grains. You have won a copay pollen grains but as you go further back in time. It's it becomes harder to say. Oh are you sure. This is monica on. Are you sure know you die cod or is it something you know more and sperm. So what we do generally is is group things into these broad taxing on the groups. So we can easily differentiate angiosperms. Aren't ferns and from general firm while talk about hours in the lab under a microscope but then the other side of it is these beautifully preserved parts of plants. The leaves twigs sometimes. I'm guessing flowers and other you know seed producing structures even if it's gymnast firms or angiosperms. But you know this idea of no analog also kind of complicates things. because there's i'm sure a ton of convergent evolution over time in terms of just like again a leaf has to withstand the wind. It has to capture sunlight. It also has to deal with evapotranspiration that sort of stuff so when you're looking at a leaf fossil even then if it looks familiar there's there's no guarantee that it necessarily is which means you're trying to find other lines of evidence or at least like you said trying to pin it in some sort of larger classification that has a higher degree of certainty. In it right. Yes that's right. And it's completely true with awe with leaf fossils. There's a lot of convergence and leaves. There are definitely certain traits that we know from looking at water plans are likely to have evolved from what we know from modern plants. That doesn't eliminate the idea that it could have evolved separately independently in another group in the past so that complicates a lot of the ad. Intimidation what we usually do. We know it's. It's a lot of morphological comparison in understanding a little bit about development. And kind of having you know just from morphology saying well this could be either a b or c. You know if there's a lot more than that many different plant families that how this same type of lever architecture like well they were just going to say we don't know it could be anything. It could be something. That's you know common to all these different families and that means that we can't really pinpoint it down and you know. Nfl genetic context. What claes long to and we're pretty. You know honest about that in reality. The number of leaves that we're actually able to identify kind of like give them a natural affinity. It's very very level. I would say that it's you know like maybe five percents of the different leaf morpeth types that we find that we can. We can accurately say well you know i. I have pretty solid evidence. I believe this. Is you know elo basir of something like that. One thing that helps is when we have Sometimes you find preserved cuticle so leave waxes. They're all so they're pretty resistant. And depending on the type of fossil you house sometimes we find that the cuticle of the leaves are still preserved. Kind of just compress. Their stand witched between no inside the rock. We can isolate it again. You know using acids using different chemicals and of clear them out and in those cases we actually have this perfect impression of what the epidermis looked like. We have d'amato morphology we have tried combs and that is very useful when we when we were trying to tease apart. What family does this leave. Belong to because it's kind of a different line of evidence it's not morphological anatomical and it. Actually it's very helpful when we want to test our our hypotheses. Is this you know. Plant come with airplanes. Be well you know there are different. So maybe that's how can in down exactly what we're talking about. that's amazing. Oh my gosh the attention to detail. Really emphasizing that. Botany background that you need to even start being ineffective paleobotanist. You have to be able to recognize the stuff and have that knowledge base to be able to start associating it with certain things but okay. We've established that you've got a deep line of evidence and data to work with your both in the pollen record in the fossil leaf record. And i'm sure there's lots of other geological things going on but the important thing is is you have these records from both before and after the asteroid impact in that allows you to ask some really interesting questions about what's going on with these ecosystems maybe not individual species per se but the ecosystem in general. And that's really what you all set out with with this paper that you are lead author on here. So you know what i guess. We'll start with what were some of the big questions you were trying to answer in looking at this and then we can kind of go into the patterns that you're able to reveal k. So historically you know. We've i found this paleocene so post extinction forest in the new orleans columbia and we found that no. It's it's really similar to to what we see today in the tropics we were finding the same plant. Family their dominant by birth in the tropics. Today we're finding you know there's a lot of insect herbivore which means you intense. Biotic interactions Brainy it was warm as we know from. You know night again princes. And it's okay. you know. Basically we're seeing tropical rainforest as we know it today. It was a little bit less diverse. But it's kind of the same thing so the natural question to ask. Well when did they originate. And you know how we have a massive planet. Perry events that happened you know a few billion years before that How were rainforests impacted. Our they affected by the asteroid and that ecological atrophy that was triggered. So that's where we started building this massive data so students malicious and you know kudos to them. They have a lot a lot of patients. They started collecting from thirty nine. Different outcrops and horse that had been drilled for oil exploration and whatnot. Isolating paul and looking at it and at the same time. We also started looking for landfall for mega fossils. Four leaf fossils in coal mines. That we knew were dated from the late cretaceous from the metric. Sian so right before the impact. In that i mean columbia is a quite privileged country in terms of the fossil record because from the last one hundred and forty million years. Colombia has been pretty much in tropical south. America hasn't moved much. So it's been just there in the tropics and with the andean uplift. What happened is that all these deposits that started forming. Since about that time. They're just you know they were uplifted. Everything's covered in vegetation though but the rocks are there so we have a very early good continuous record of why has been going on in the tropics for the past one hundred and forty million years. We were able to go and okay. So let's look for rocks that are dated this age just before the extinction. And let's go find all their amazing. Yeah i mean just. The quirks of geology in and of itself blows my mind because yeah it. Is this like weird historical privilege of just happenstance of of what geology does and here you are at least able in a position to go and look and find and collect and collaborate with people that have been able to put this together but to think about just the sheer amount of time you have a record for is so amazing. And so you've mentioned that post extinction event following the cretaceous. You're seeing things that are very reminiscent of what you would see in a tropical rainforest today which already blows my mind because it just goes to show you how old these ecosystems really are early. Some semblance of them is but you know how different was it prior to asteroid impact. I mean there was obviously different selection pressures going on before a giant rockfalls out of space and obliterates half the globe overnight. kind of thing So how different were the pre extinction event forests of this region. They were very different. And that's something that was surprising to me again because coming from a biological background in my head you know. Flowering plants diversified and that was it tropical rainforests and When we started looking at the forest before the impact first of all we saw that andrew sperms were not the dominant feature. And that's something that we see in the pollen record so when we look at these pundits We see that about forty percent of all the different rains that we find our from foreign plans. Another forty percent or so are fern. And then the rest are kinda i Mainly monkey fogle tree family right after the impact. What we see is that firing five paulin green become ninety percent of the whole on assemblage. We're looking at two different. No equivalent very comparable samples. And we see that. There's definitely a drastic change in the proportion of flowering plants that we see and that proportion kind of like remain for the rest of the of the paleocene meeting that there is a permanent change in the plan communities when we were looking at the at the fossil lease the one thing. God is really striking in forest after the impact is the abundance the sheer abundance of leggings. There's a lot of a lot of leggings. Leaves a lot of leg pod. There's a big diversity as well. I mean we have six different leggy leaks in the paleocene which is pretty high for a family that had just begun to diversify. We have also like sixty eight different types of meghan pod. Wow this really tells us something about you. Know what was going on. This is really the the age of legumes gonna say. Yeah i'm gonna bought an is this This is not the age of novels. Yes when we when we were looking at the foreign prior to the impact there were not. I mean even botanically evolutionary lead mean leggings may have appeared during the cretaceous but they were not a dominant feature. They were not a common feature and because of ecological role they have today. We know that ecologically these forests were working a little bit differently so that was the that was the main thing also a lot of the a lot of the families. The families that we were able to identify either leaves or fruiting structures after the impact. Were also absent before the impact so those those were the main out of the most striking difference we later got into looking at kind of more of ecologically. What could mean and we started looking. Will heather graham She led a paper in which she looked at no isotopic signature of carbon in these fossil leaves or both before and after the impact and she saw the range of delta c thirteen in both types of forests was also different and this is associated to the fore structure so whereas in closed canopy forest. There's a lot of soil. respiration there's a lot of leaf respiration going on and that changes the The delta c thirteen signature in five before compared to what you see in the upper part of course in open canopy rainforest have a lot of air circulation going on. There's not a big difference in the topic signature of either. The co two or leave that are up in the canopy and the ones that are in the under story. That is one line of evidence. The other one was also the variation in the The density of fine vein in leads they also reflect a lot how the forest looks like and it's something very similar to what you just explained. enclosed kind of before. Is you how the very strong light gradient amount of light that leaves the kathy or receiving very high the amount of light that leaves a receiving and the story is very low. And this translate if you look at a single tree this translate in that leaves. That are open. The canopy they're smaller and overall they have a higher density of leave. Venetian when you look at the leaves that are in the under story. There are a lot larger expand a lot more and therefore veins are also wider spaced apart and being density a lot lower so that variation we were also able to see to evaluate in the poorest before and after the impact and we also see that same difference that is telling us before canopies were opened and afterward became closed. This is wild just because thinking of all the different lines of evidence that really support each other to have that much kind of congruence in and of itself is is really remarkable. But you know. I use carbon thirteen in my own work. But that's with modern day plants and to think you could use leaf chemistry or at least infer leave. Chemistry from fossils blows my mind but it's a really good indication of water use efficiency. And that's why i use it and that's the kind of evidence i see so to be able to pull that out of the fossil record is just so cool and to be able to you know say something about the structure of these forest because again plants are routed into place. They don't have the luxury of moving to more. Favourable climates within their lifetime so more than most other organisms. They are at the mercy of physics. Yes they are absolutely absolutely. And that's that's one of the wonderful thing of plants as i see it is that you know they're. They're the perfect counseling. So if you know physics and chemistry. They're just standing there so they have to cope with everything that's going on around them and that's also one of the very cool things that you know looking into the past. We can really go back to those kind of first principles of how things work of how processes work and and we're able to for how funds were living just based on physical principles. That is so cool. And so yeah you've got all these lines of evidence showing you that the force we're going from more open to more close after the extinction event you've got the rise of angiosperms in a very big way. A lot of new families are starting to dominate. I mean you weren't you responsible for like one of the first legume fossil discoveries of that time period as well. I mean just before we jump into the main part of this question. Yeah so That we find in columbia their overall not the oldest views but we do have the oldest like says helping no leg you that that we have in columbia and one of cool things is that you know. For that time period there are also there are like us elsewhere. But in the places where you find these seen leg you you only find like one one type of leave for two types of -ly you don't find the you know the diversity that you find in the tropics which really points to kind of like spoiler coming up pretty soon The diversification really. We're seeing that leggings really diversified In the tropics. I well that is so cool. So okay the structure changed the species composition. Change obviously a giant asteroid impact especially very close to where it did hit up in the u. catan. That's a huge selection of in a very intense one in a very short amount of time but overtime as well so you can kind of understand that yes. Ecosystems would have changed but based on the evidence that you've been able to uncover and put together. What were some of the hypotheses as to why we see the shift. To more closed canopy denser forests more angiosperms dominance and the reisen families like for basically. Yeah so that's that was the fun part of the paper after collecting you know thousands and analyzing thousand data points thinking about what could have happened and this this catastrophe. It's something that. I don't think you really. You really cannot really wrap your head around it. You know. After a while. I i started thinking about it. It's like oh my god. It was so much bigger than so much catastrophic than previously thought that he previously imagined because it. Yeah it's kind of like the closest that earth's been into an apocalypse and we started thinking we'll we'll why why would see these differences The first thing that you know we started thinking about is okay. You know flowering plants. They started diversifying early cretaceous and by the an predation. They were already pretty diverse. If you know taxing omically ecologically we know that there were large trees. There were herbs on so they're not really reason why you know flowering plants on their own. Were not able to make it closed kind before is so perhaps there was some sort of disturbance or some limitations that was kind of keeping them at bay one eight could be that large dinosaurs roaming around not only eating but just like knocking things down as they were walking through and we started thinking something analogous that happens today. And that's with. You know elephants and the african savanna and also with the reintroduction of large herbivores in in siberia We're seeing that you know animals. Actually they kind of help create their environment they knock things down and that favours the growth of other plant species of her smoker basis. Things for sure everything so could be that and then you know after the extinction large animals were gone and that kind of maybe it could have allowed while wants to take over and build up. These code closed canopy rainforest. Another idea is that how the during the cretaceous we still have a lot of conifers around nowadays in the new tropics especially Newly conifer that you really find it lowland environments as need him. I mean needham. Kinda camouflage is really good. Lowering so cool So it could be if you know the fact that there were in. In cretaceous we have all these conifers. Maybe the presence of conifers that it could've contributed to having an open canopy. And then maybe there could have been selective extinction against conifers regionally in the new tropics. And that's why you know they left open. This need space and lowering again. Could've have taken over. And the last one which is a really interesting has to do with soil nutrients and what we see is the during during the cretaceous The end the mountain belt was not there. There was not a lot of you. Know weathering upset him and bringing up nutrients minerals into the oil. So these were kind of like old soils that were there and it could have been that you know nutrient content was very low. Then with the catastrophe in new you have big su- nami waves bringing in ocean sediments you have thousands of tons of rock. That were vaporized and thrown into the atmosphere. That then came down again. You have wildfires going on. There's ashes everywhere that could have created five. Some sort of you know like a hurdle association of morris Especially considering off faith which we know are usually limiting in tropical environments due to continues rainfall and leaching. So could it be that there. This this fertilisation this. In this post apocalyptic scenario where we raise the land. We just fertilize the soil and then Flowering plants we know. They grow better than either ferns or conifers. High nutrient conditions could have kind of like helped. Give them a fast start in growth and then especially with the diversification and increasing london of leggings. That could've kind of led to a positive feedback of soil nitrogen fixation and that in general would have kept on helping the angiosperms dominated floor. It's really interesting to think of the patterns that could play into this and those are really three fascinating hypotheses that you make a point in the paper to say they're not mutually exclusive. I mean every one of these could have an influence in some way or another picking. Your poison is just a matter of which one interests you the most but you know some are easier to detect than others but to think of all of the processes that can really change an ecosystem state and going back to this idea of no analogues. You know that's why this idea of like a community and sort of an ecosystem generals interesting because yeah you kind of have climate dictating. What types of ecosystems might evolve. But it just goes to show you that these little perturbations or of the him can have massive consequences and potentially reshape entire regions of the planet flurries. At least and then of course you know if the plants are changing everything is going to change in tandem as exactly mean. The forest is a lot more than the sum of its parts own. These interactions Really makes you think about you. Know the another role because they're playing a specific roles. They're just there but you know the interactions that plant species individual plant species or plant families. How community it's really really important If you start removing either how many do you read to remove until you have a completely different assemblage yen from an ecological perspective of someone. That's also interested in modern day communities. Implants you know. Just trying to understand extinctions kind of put into context. What's happening with our planet today. And just i mean the destruction that we can rot and then sort of the hubris of being like yeah. It's going to be fine or we'll always will restore back to what it was like to me. It's just a constant shift of things. But i would really love to get your perspective as someone that has both modern and deep time perspectives on plant community composition and changes. Well one of the things that struck me the most with you know something was lost during the during the extinction in the tropics was about forty five percents of diversity It was gone but it also means that you're a little bit more than half remained a little bit more than half of all the species that were there remained but we find that these new communities. They're completely different. Even if we had a little bit more than half of the species. So that really tells us that you know extinction really changes things. It's not that we're gonna have the same fourth. It's going to be something different. And it's not just that if it's gonna take a long time to recover so that forty five percent of diversity that was lost during the extinction. It took about seven million years to recover so the level of diversity had before the extinction we required seven million years to get back to that alone time and to think of the rate at which we are destroying for us especially i mean. Last year there was a spike in before station in the amazon rainforest added to everything that we've been doing. The rate of climate change is another pressure on forests everywhere. It's going really really fast. It's equivalent to geologic incident. I mean what triggered to be the invitations extinction wasn't the asteroid per se was a holy cause catastrophe that triggered no for about one hundred hundred years. There was little sunlight There is no synthesis. All the food chains were were kind of shut down completely. It's not equivalent to what's going on today but still the rate at which we are perturbing. Our environment is really really fast. It's it's almost analogous to mass extinction. So it's worrisome. I find it very very worrisome to things that no we are taking things down. We are leading species to extinction reducing the area of rainforest and we are inevitably leading the planet or something it will not know these ecosystems school not back. Something else will call back. And we're not going to be here to see it. Probably very important perspectives. And i haven't really actually heard the context of extinction as it relates to the cretaceous extinction is being. Yeah the the impact was bad but everything that followed was really kind of the the the nails in the coffin so to speak for the ecology as it was at that time. But you make a really good point here in this idea that there's like functional equivalency or something like that like oh if we lose one species something we'll replace it. It's almost if they're saying like if you lose a puzzle piece. There's an equal league fitted puzzle piece to put in there and yes. Some species might have a lot of overlap in niche base. But they're never the same and every little bit that's lost a replaced changes things we don't quite know understand or really have the power to predict how that's gonna go but we know how we can exist on this planet as it exists right now and to think that you know the changes that we can have can take millions of years to recover from. I mean just in terms of a number on the diversity chart that's sobering because you know the let nature take its course or it doesn't really matter people. It's almost like they think. Oh well then fifty years to one hundred years. It'll be better. We're talking like hundreds of thousands if not many millions of years for ecosystems to bounce back from massive disturbances and humans. I mean he. That asteroid impact delineated time in earth's history and now human activity is also delineating time in history as it relates to biology. Absolutely absolutely. I mean what were you. Learn from. The fossil record is that yeah. It just seems recover. I think the real question is whether we will recover. Will we actually be able to to live without what we already know. And what we already have i. I personally don't think so but yeah that's just my opinion. A well informed and honest opinion but on a less darker notes. I you obviously have made a huge milestone in career with this paper and all of your colleagues kudos to everyone that put in the effort and collaborated on getting this work together. And i think you set yourself up really nicely but where do you go. I mean. obviously you've got so many more questions. I'm sure that were generated from this research and it's not like you figured out the cretaceous extinction. I mean this is still just one place on our planet. So where do you wanna go with this year. Post doc now correct and you've got a whole career ahead of you of really interesting questions to ask. So what do you hope to do in the coming years. Oh gosh that's the question. Yes some positive that we propose here. We can actually using geologic record so. That's something that we're definitely looking into. I personally i mean my my research has always revolved into studying both living plants and fossils plan. Because i don't think that you can fully understand one without the other. My interest from the fossil perspective goes into looking at other cretaceous going further back in time looking out early. Cretaceous rainforests in the tropics. We house with we continue to. Who's at the chicago botanical garden. He's great at finding offals. he's i mean he's plant fossil whisper. We have continued to explore. You know the sedimentary record in columbia in quarter and now we're moving into no further back in time so there's some exciting very fighting prospects there from the plant perspective. I mean i'm always interested in in hydraulics. And i actually did. My phd looking at flow hydraulics and floor and is something that you don't really very often in in fossils. I mean some mineralized treetrunks knew how authorized for him but something that really interests me. Because we don't really know much about that side of plants Where the controls how we know generally how the flow work by. There's there's so much else to be known nitty gritty. How does you know the architecture leave kind of affect the rate of flowing exports or the different mechanisms of export. So yeah those are my my two big. That is fascinating stuff in. I think i speak for everyone listening that we would love to hear more about that. So on that note if people wanna keep track of your research as it comes out or just kind of learn more about the work you've done and are going to do or same. Goes for your colleagues as well. Where do you recommend the go looking for more information about you and continuing work on these sorts of topics well also perspective at the smithsonian tropical research institute to there is a very big lab which i'm currently based on So it's the calm lose. Heart amigos lab over there so through their website. You can find a lot of information. I also have my personal website. Try to keep updated period biology monica carvalho. Fighting will put a pass. I'll send you. I'll send you the links so yeah it's a very exciting future for tropical research and tropical pay. We bought me There's a lot to be found. We've been fighting a lot of things. There's a lot of questions interesting questions to be answered and you was kind of an open niece so anybody who wants to explore study though the tropics in the past is more than welcome wonderful. Well dr followed. This has been absolutely amazing. I can't congratulate you enough in all of this monumental achievements in terms of just the scientific publishing process but also the findings that you've had you really given us a more complete picture of the history of life on this planet especially of the sorely under studied areas of the tropics during this time periods. Thank you so much for doing this. But also sitting down to talk with us and tell us all about it. This has been great. All thank you very much for inviting me. This was this was where a lot of fun good. I'm glad and you are welcome back at any time. So please keep in touch and update as more and more research comes out of your career. Thank you very much okay. Well hang in there. Stay healthy and happy. Botany ising both in modern day in the rock record. Cheers all right. That wraps up this conversation. That was incredible. I can't believe the amount of work that went into making all of this research possible. I highly recommend you track down some of those resources and of course the best place to do that is over in the show. Notes for this episode at indefensible plants dot com slash podcast. I think dr carballo for taking time out of her busy schedule to talk with us. And i can't wait to see what kind of new information her career uncovers moving into the future. It's just amazing to me that we can use fossilized leaves in much the same way as we use modern leaves today and the kind of resolution and information we can gain from them is mind blowing and it's only going to get better as we get more and more technology for analyzing and looking at fossils but that is it for this episode. I thank you all for listening. Of course please please please. Consider supporting this podcast. I could not be doing it without my patrons over at patriotair dot com slash in defense plants and the best part is if you sign up to support us with a small financial donation each month. You're getting great kickbacks including access to multiple mini bonus episodes each and every month so you can keep this botanical and ecological conversation going over at patriotair dot com slash indefens- a plants. You can also pick up merch. Over at spring dot com slash store slash indefensible plants. It's customizable and full of great vintage. Botanical prints and there is always stickers sale as well over at in defense plants dot com slash shop. Can't remember these links once again. Just hit the show notes over. At indefens- plants dot com slash podcast. There there and at the very least make sure you hit that. Subscribe button so you can stay up to date on all the great conversations get to have each and every week but yeah that is it for me. I thank you all for listening but until next week this is your host matt signing out audio everyone.

dr monica carballo smithsonian tropical research catan peninsula Dr monica carballo Carballo penn state university dr karl smithsonian tropical research kirk johnson monica columbia lucien felix Botany cornell colombia
Smithsonian Museum and Zoo records the natural world as it collides with human civilisation

The Science Show

07:36 min | 2 years ago

Smithsonian Museum and Zoo records the natural world as it collides with human civilisation

"The science show on Aren. Washington DC is packed with scientific institutions on a vast scale. And when there isn't a shutdown. They are a must visitor not least is the Smithsonian network. My name's Kirk Johnson. I'm the Sant director of the Sony national museum of natural history at the Washington DC National Mall. What is the extent of your collection? We have a remarkable collection. It's almost a hundred and fifty million objects the largest networks direction in the world by far is about twice as large the next largest one, and it represents the full spectrum from all living things on planet earth, all the minerals and fossils of planet earth and the human cultures on planet earth and looking after the must be a gigantic job. It's a vast job. We have a staff of hundreds of collection managers and curator's whose job it is to acquire the collections continue to grow them to take care of them to make sure they're used for scientific research public education. Is there any argument these days about to whether you know? The seventy threats to the natural world that collecting and doing systematics and other classification is somewhat nineteenth century, and you really ought to change that sort of thing to do something else in no way. The fact is that netra she museums have preserved what we as humans know and understand about the natural world, and we've collected them over the last several hundred years at the same time as human impact on the planet was increasing. We've basically collected the story of our planet as intersex with the growing humanity in civilize -ation, we need to keep collecting, and I can assure you that the actual impact on naturally systems from collecting miniscule compared to that related to agriculture habitat, destruction pollution and cetera. So we're really part of the solution and not part of the problem. And in fact, when these museums work rated the nineteenth century, they were aware that humans are having an impact it's one of the reasons they made the museums was to document our footprint on the planet as we were understanding what was in the planet. In other words, if you're doing. Doing the classifications naming of parts of such like, you can track the changes and the impact of the human activity. Exactly. And we know the planet has far more species that we've ever discovered we've maimed about two million things, but the probably about ten million things. So we're still in the basic discovery phase at the same time looking at what is the impact you community on the planet. I'm wanting a priorities. These days we are really doing the three branches. What our museum does one is to ten and grow the national collection to do scientific research. It's relevant to humanity and the natural world and three to share that with his large public as possible. And this year, we're opening the national hall of fossils on June eighth which is the story of life on earth an embeds humans within that story. So the story ends actually in the future not in the past. So well that look like when it's opened in three months time. We'll walk into gigantic hall. It's one thousand square feet. It has actual specimens of ancient animals and plants are. Arranged in a rough time line goes up through the recent ice ages and then into the origin of humans in theon human civilization and into our present dilemma, the twenty first century. How do we as humans survive the center without destroying the environments of the world, and well, keeping sustainable future alive for all the people on the planet one quick question. And you'll history who was Smithson James Smithson was an English chemist mineralogy st- who when he died willed his estate to the United States for the formation of an institution for the increase in diffusion of knowledge in Washington DC, and it was about five hundred thousand gold, crowns, and it was enough to start the Smithsonian Institution eighteen forty six and at the museum you'd be delighted to receive a strain visitors. Of course, we love us trillions cut Johnson Smithsonian museum of natural history. And then there is the zoo. I'm Steve Montfort. I'm the director of this Massoni national zoo and concert. Nation biology institute, the national zoo is in Washington DC right in the center of town. And that's the one you look after. Yes, sir. You were talking before about the scale of what you do could you just summit up for us? Sure. We have have zoo. If two million visitors that come way of four hundred species in two thousand animals, but beyond that, we have one of the largest research departments of any zoo in the world, and we focus on a spectrum of work from two individual animals in our care all the way to the work. We're doing to save them in the wild elephants. You mentioned, you know, elephants are at risk of extinction. Asian elephants are in great risk in the wild. There's fewer than fifty thousand animals left and many of them were used in logging activities in past years. And in the recent times, those animals have logging as been ceased and these animals four thousand more or less, unemployed Asian elephants, and they represent a treasure trove of biodiversity genetic diversity represented in those animals is very important. So we. I don't understand how we can rewire those animals, basically, create some social groups that can then be placed back into existing intact for systems. So we can not lose valuable genetics that they represent to their wealth counterparts. And so you'll mainly looking after the genetic heritage, you're not reviled in the meal solves well, actually, what we're doing these these animals some of them may have actually been wild animals at one time they have a very long lifespans decades ago. They may have been taken from the wild on. There are some that have been born in these camps in captivity. So really, we have to understand how do we take these groups of animals, and sort of reacclimated them to living in the wild in a way that they will survive and thrive when we do that. And what sort of scale that how many elephants have you dealt with in that sense. You know, we're really the well the effort is just beginning with something in the neighborhood of four thousand of these elephants now compared to only fifty thousand left that's a very large number. So we're really at the very beginning of understanding what that population represents genetically. And then trying to figure out what are the factors that we need to take into account that will lead to success? You know, when we're putting together, these are, very smart animals are social animals, you can't just throw them back into the wild. And hope for the best we need to be able to understand the social factors. How are we going to track them and make sure that they're successful? Once they're released some sort of work with other animals on the other round the world. Absolutely. We work in about thirty different countries. We have a staff around two hundred and fifty scientists that are working on everything from EMF IBI ns and avian species all the way up to elephants. So it's a very diverse portfolio. We work in thirty countries. A lot of work in Africa southeast Asia Latin America, how many people know that. I mean in the United States the extent of what you do not very many, people know that the Smithsonian does research at all much less that we have national zoo that's leading the world, and what we do people think of this Massoni, and as a cultural institution that houses Lincoln's hat and Dorothy, ruby slippers, and that sort of thing but in. Reality. We have the largest assemblage of biodiversity and conservation scientists of any institution in the world. If you look at our natural history museum, our environmental research center tropical research institute, and our zoo. It's quite an awesome, assemblage of intellectual strength. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much steeped Montfort is the director of the Smithsonian's national zoo. And he spoke of the trip last meeting in Washington DC just ended.

Washington director United States Johnson Smithsonian museum of Sony national museum of natura Smithsonian network Kirk Johnson Washington DC National Mall Smithsonian Institution Smithson James Smithson center tropical research insti Steve Montfort -ation Montfort Africa Nation biology institute Massoni Lincoln Asia Latin America
Selu Vega, fotgrafo y viajero, nos habla de Sevilla- De Donosti al cielo 94

Podcast RadioViajera

31:12 min | 1 year ago

Selu Vega, fotgrafo y viajero, nos habla de Sevilla- De Donosti al cielo 94

"Status Gutenberg did not hear Hilo Gardeners Bengo. This appeal is the the thing that Boondoggle I mean I did. Donosti theon solid the carling. There's the sunset both Kaz the Theodore Kaczynski Iraqi by some of the fina me and Activity that is something you'll be suspended. Alaska Thermal Cuanto thousand. Mrs a secrets our sound Beatles get not win thousands course hospital gayness decastro give you liaison to stem damn being corsage the newest wrath as whom when I mean football raffle lands the from both cousins the League Donald Silva us it'll taper off to Syria e confined almost solely one of them K. The until the phone the the your second date evening. Kamal over the need for the with the if they're not case. See User spendy states that mental and those is not going to Siemian Domas even. Don't mind for your defense. We look for the imperials. The two zero one hundred and fifty figuring out and give he'll talk over. We have a fabulous outlook on even the vertical shows. Every on your nickel yearbook game of Yemen and then location month. Kosovan you will see that concerned that federal awarding typing me Komo lumberjack. Weather's 'cause I'm wearing. Don't you see Monday NATO by not let me hold on? Woman don't UNSEE and producer my knife within the the yeah part three. Don't I'm not the another assure your Sony's mustered up cutting juicy Keith I'm in in stamp was diplomacy Monkey Nada. You went through the window out really contact Yosi you possibly others in the dog autos fundraising Cuneo. But I think almost ICE POOL WITH EMMA. I'M NOT COMMIT HEART ATTACK. Have focused one wingfield out on the other. Fun Won't autopsy on the desert to the rally yong-kil the a month or so in the name of our sons they couldn't tell you're talking about Michael Antonio the we say. But he's having the whole. Don't you buckle? They is GRETEL DOT COM developers. Leaving them as if our doses. But if I don't come I love for democracy. Yeah focused on decaying little. 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Luther. Yes if you get one though for the five over. Thirty Seconds Chameleon Not United Soda the Laker. And say well No. I've been Michael Hindle to your number. Come OUT FOR GAY. Say nothing every. Em forgot it. They won't our new head for you. If you haven't with stuff mean hundred feet of the line thing getting his would up to get him radio program so you'll know. Instead of for the Meller law no for Saddam Fatemi fails a little bit of Donald Sterling. Not as the guy he care for Nicholas in buffalo bubbles. They give you with a fierce closeness. Ninety four laid out the day mean not only the Philadelphia after thirty thirty dollars bother putting on email. Lipping does gatos as widow bit Ogata Polo but why don't Look Logo Megi Maria with the He's on you work. And Lucy say that allies. And you're like I can look like you get your monthly my survey separate Sooty Israeli. For the day on the rightfully they take up can be off vehicle. Mounting concern One of issues the deal. via discuss Showed us in Corsa both governors Was founded fossils They but a says true Russia the Mystique Skinny evidently a lot of mid more Trump he does he thought he US Journal says even throw out. Get been salvaged. Ford on is the means. Then mainly those rows we should be guy knows Sylvia Indiscreet Won The Copa Old via Fifteen still get something for your search two zero applebees or radical equality summer right. I mean the volunteer eighth. I'm David Advisor Team. Vida in the and on your focus for this young or different than thief by the WHO Traffic John Bogel. They don't look I'm throw absolutely. You're never goal of electoral victory. Love seal the Mahama Marketer. Beautiful kids other the wrong nominee. I'll get over it or read up but it's just sort of rhythm a makeup some holidays new mother guns did by a ruling on the win them a valid k. Tomago feeble news yes. I'm one of my obvious will not be novelist. Salvator Mundi so daily guessing cutty theon. I can handle better. What a bummer. Not Fiance. Give almost The'd with whom the voice in theology but not PGA but at the go go through The a thief. And you're the poorest you not over and insensitive heavy getting since one of Biting Mackerel. Lemus welcome glad into is eventually. If you're not weakening we want us to have our complete but I need someone valid or I lost. Yo Diets gone through who? Now make the way you'll keep a ula from the thing. Is the last Jedi Mental? A that way beyond me is Africa or indefinite menam of the minority. You man get up until for your salary in terms of the company in Lhasa This with to how are we go on Saturday any not not when the or not? You'RE GONNA she's up on your name even gang your media go I your okay. You're probably faltering funding not come. You're you're not even we. We leaker many on the rest I left left about. 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Best Of: Mike Golic Jr.

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Best Of: Mike Golic Jr.

"This is the base of the donlevatar show with the stugatz podcasts. He spent the wake and take with stugatz goal now. As sakes. Four five six eight three seven you are out of the area. Seventy six four five six four eight three seven my not work. You might have to dial. One seven eight six four five six four eight three seven. He myself detained seven eight six four five six four eight three seven but it is not you need to the one before seven eight six four five six four eight three seven. Stunned their practice for distance calls again, if you're out of the area dial seven eight six four five six four eight three seven now one eight six four five six four eight three seven that's seven eight six four five six four eight three seven but only if you're out of the area. No way, if you're out of the area is actually one seven eight six four five six four eight three seven. My bad sorry that one. So me like the one before seven eight six four five six four eight three seven. Okay, let's go through these one more time. Trump Tom if you're out of the area. Now one seventy six four five six eight three seven. If you are out of the area. Joe's Donald seven eight six four five six four eight three seven. Go now. It is waking take here on ESPN radio. I have news. I have notes. I have thought I have opinions. I could open up my microphone. I can give them to you. But that's not how we do it here on wake. It's or the Dan Le Batard show on ESPN radio, you have to do the work, you have to call up ask the right questions. If you do, perhaps, you will get my news. My notes, my thoughts my opinions go Joe is in with us today. Mike is up in New York is prepping for tomorrow's show. Billy, Chris ROY are here, taking attendance Elseneer. No housing. Dan here. About here. Roy. Go. Good, Chris good. I'm good. Good. I'm good. So you get. I'm Mike, right. You get. I'm everyone. How's how's, how's Allison? If you get good. We know Dan was good. Those good. Go Joe said he has never wakened taped before about about that first time longtime. You buy go. No, no. Probably right. Definitely. We'll get to your calls here, just a second. But I. We interview Ghirma, wow. I thought for sure this is going to be go just to time. Wac twist. Well, yes, the very good question during the local hour that I wanted to explore. I wanted to ask you about you ask the question. How many times a day, does Tim Kirch in call Elias? Kirch is gonna join us at eleven we'll ask them by how many times do you imagine the I don't imagine that Tim Kirch in calls Elias. I imagine that lie is calls, Tim Kirch about that, Bill. I feel like there's confusion here like, you know, Elias isn't a person, right? Dewey. Sure true. We don't know that alliance isn't a, a know what all this time, they assume the lies stood for something. But it could just be someone named allies force someone in a room. How does Tim Kirch in by the way, not having offspring named Elias? That's a good point. Wait till is, is not a person why to know maybe I'm going to put on the pool is a live person. But do you imagine that ally has caused him courage, not the other way around? That's what I'm asking fat. Chris, do you imagine Elias, just call when they have something for Kirch, and they call him or does it does Tim in pepper allies Imogen that they have just a walkie talkie, rarely you can always contact each other? Don't go phone call even has to be made its like shh. Foale who calls too. Call Elias or does Elias call Kirch it. I feel it gets like they're in a relationship, but like they don't live together. So it's like, hey, good morning. How are you? Hi, just sleep. And then it's just kind of like a running chain throughout the day between Tim and allies. See, you have a much more cordial view of their relationship. I agree there in a relationship they don't live together. But I imagine Elias. Ascending Tim, Kirk Johnson, pretty racy you up texts. Hey, Tim, at check out this box store box score might be another working phone number. Commander cemented today to him. Baby. Call me I was at three AM. Elias were you drunk again? The allies the person. He they Tim has a special line that he can't exclusively call when he calls allows is they like the Kirch line. Is there any sort of line? Well, he told us he has a friend that works at allies may not be a priority lies as Fred and I thought, yeah, but he has a person at as just goes straight to this person and said, that this is one of his closest friends. Could be Elias though. I guess he never relented. I'm I think friends with Elias. Right. That's what I think. Now, picturing him texting people stats in tone that, you know, raunchy. Yeah. Yeah. Like six straight strikeout. You see them turn that double play six four three minutes. Only having one twenty. Is the first time it live all air. Creeped out man. Say new live ball era, like that really kind of puts me in a mood. I wasn't ready for I want you guys to keep going. No, we don't. Yes, we. What do you thinks the dirtiest thing that allies Tim have texted each other? That's a good question. What's the dirtiest thing that can happen in a baseball game? Yes. Where ally is in Kerch at hitting streak is so long. I feel like someone's stealing home squeeze play. Ooh, Tim probably grounds out to I lot biggies una term sack on Bach. Little dribbling. Canna corn. What rupaul? What's the one that gets? It's got it's gotta be in the mood and feel like it's cana- corn. Just because that's the pinochle. Show me your best. Oh now houses, right? Wrist me on the radio does not work. No. Four, I don't even know what that is. But I know it's a baseball bat. Oh, wow. Woo. Chains in whip excite Tim, as a great. Event tomorrow and Saturday in the city, I was told totally bring a trenchcoat. I have no idea. What would anything else is that? NC students, you push back on this, like you don't reek of trenchcoat guide. But I don't have one. I know I what you look like if a trenchcoat were to become a person, you would be that person. Really, well, because when I think of trench coat of someone, either completely nude underneath or someone opening up and trying to sell you something both of which seem very on brand trying to flash. You very brand for you in that case, the flashing part, thank you. Tubby dovey. Go ahead. You're awake. You take here on ESPN radio. Hey, first of all shell stugatz. Absolutely. Crushing around the horn. Hey. You know to, to long for them to have young. That'd be Shane themselves. Thank you. Rash. I'm expecting is is Mikey? Say gonna be on today. We'll listen we never know Mike. See you there today. Spike. You see there to just figured Joe together, Mikey. See, did you get a smoke break together? I know Billy told you that me and go, Joe, we're doing this show. Did you get a smoke break together for for today known a very busy week? Mike. He's he was very busy this week. All right. All right, Joe. So we won't be what were you busy doing smoking thir- talking in the third person busy doing that? Busy not getting to the microphone on time. I mean but we doing I don't have headphones. This is very difficult. Your work at radio for a living for crying out loud. How do you have headphones? Billy. What are you laughing at understand how he doesn't have headphones? That's my see. W anything else. You know, I was wondering if Kevin Durant gets rain for sitting out the playoffs this year. No, I mean he didn't get a ring while being the finals MVP. He's getting rings for sitting out during the playoffs. He's back to back finals MVP and he still has a ring in my personal record book. Thank you for the call w. I want to stay in this Kirch Elaine for a while. I really do. I don't I don't wanna ever leave it. I want to do to tire show at it. No now I need to find out what Tim sexy. Baseball voice voice team uses way talks to Elias. We'll find out we will. But after this more wake you take donlevatar, America's addicted to its technology, and it's really unhealthy. I keep having this discussion with my wife because she is on that phone nonstop and what I have asked for our family to do moving forward is, let's figure out a time where all of us put our phones away, and none of us use them till the next morning, stugatz. But nobody wants to be with you that just dawned on me. Thanks. Then these live at our show with his two guys on ESPN radio. And now back to wake and fake with Stu at do. Seven eight six at four or five six two cats for eight three seven cats. That's seventy six two cats. Two cats four five six two four eight three seven two cats. Call now. Do cats cats Saturday, six two four five six two cats for eight three seven do cats. That's seventy six two guys to gets four five six two four eight three seven two. Two. Eight three seven. Baseball season's in full swing. Tomorrow's Bryce Harper. The Phillies host the Rockies coverage begins at three thirty pm eastern on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. It is way could take year audience be radio. Lebatardshow out today. Kurt you're gonna join us at eleven. Mike is up in New York. Mike. Are we expecting any special guests to come by the student? You're not where I was up in New York, which was right in the middle of the office, I was right by Jacoby desk. You seem to be in a much nicer place, then where I was up in New York City, they rolled out the red coleus terrible. Oh, oh man. It's been a long week long. We lots of travel, but I'm not in the cubicle where we put seeing Van Gundy in front of that window. They rolled out the red carpet. I'm here in the CNA. Smith. Studio is at a town will Cain is Atta town, and we have this fancy backdrop to really nice studio. I did not know you're in his studio smell, like, how is it? I just imagine he smells fantastic, the air conditioning is perfect. There is a sort of white ball of light when you walk in. In to the door, where he usually sits, relieves, his aura. I like to imagine that. There's just takes littered around the room hasn't used but that require him writing them down. And we know like any great battle rapper. Stephen a Smith is straight off the top. Mike is there anything from that studio that you feel like maybe you could bring home for me? I see a couple of items right behind your shoulder there. Like so. State coffee Cup the way that they do this. Studio is pretty amazing. I used to think that the Clevelanders sued ios worked at max efficiency, but all the radio shows Jalen and Jacoby. Stephen a Smith will Cain. They all emanate from the same room yet, if you watch them on TV it all looks like it's an different studio. They change each wall is a different studio. So it's pretty amazing in each wall has Bodos at our framed that are specific to that show and Jalen and Jacoby by far. The coolest wall is Jimmy Kimmel and Steven Naismith one there. There is a there's a photo of Bill Simmons. So I'm guessing that's the Jacoby Jacobean wall. Yeah. Yeah. Parliament. There's an older bastard, driver's license. I'm guessing the support of the Jalen and Jacoby set right now. But it's impressive do I look like I'm sitting in the middle of a white ball of light. Yes. You're glowing the best. You've looked I'm so mad at sue God's we can get into that later. Let's continue with wakened take I lied to it won't be the big time. Well, it was the first time and it won't be the last kid big time life. I mean bigger than usual, like no offence. I feel like this is kind of expected. Chalk it up as I forgot to do something more so than a lie. And you know, whatever. Times. Twice. I Bala just for no. Maybe maybe it was four, I don't know. I lost Razzi Kohl's Jimmy, Jimmy, you're on you take year on ESPN radio. Had yet. Jimmy line tenor. In the half. Court challenge say you got ten parts. You gotta hit the same putt that tiger hit on the eighteenth at the master's first part. Not the tappan crowds the same cameras are rolling. You get ten tries you make it everything comes along with being masters champion. If you miss all ten you never get to play another round of golf in your life. You taking the chance. How far was that putt? I'm thinking, I'm trying to think that right? The eighteenth all at Augusta this a couple of months like a couple of weeks ago, you're say. The first putty had, you know, you have missed that one. He hit the tap into win it, but the first one maybe fourteen fifteen footer downhill little, little slippery left or right? Right. But that's the putty missed, correct. Correct. That's the part you add any any tapped into win it. Right. So you're telling me, the fourteen fifteen footer eighteenth hole of Augusta? I get ten shots if I hit one time I get everything that comes along with being the masters champion if I miss it. I never play golf again. Correct. That is a great question ration. That is a great, great question. Chris feel about that. I mean you got ten drives the hit that putt. This isn't the same Brown or teen fifteen footer on an Augusta green. This is in the same realm of our half court conundrum that we did a few weeks back where you get ten half court shots. You make one you get two billion dollars. You miss them all you go to jail for two years. Yeah, like the, the high of being a masters champion, obviously. That's awesome. But I don't wanna give up golf for the rest of big. We're, we're hitting that putt. I'm with you. I'm not giving up golf for the rest of my life, and I have left in my life. It really is this radio show and my children. All I have left has said that yesterday about the dead and the dead. So I have four things remaining in my life ESPN. My children, dolphin, the Grateful Dead and your wife. Let's go to Cory. Cory, go ahead. You're on wake you. Take your audience, bien radio, dude after I love you, man. I love you. I love it. Hey. I think for here I'm charging you nothing. I wanna be your personal sports. Wagering consultant and a win so much money we're gonna win so much money. Whoa, qualifications. He have did you see my picks to you gots last year? I started the season one in thirty four. Jackley and we're gonna go we're gonna flip that this year got twenty years, baby. But why should I trust just out of curiosity? Well, 'cause I'm not charging you. I'm gonna prove to you how good I am. I maybe at the end of it all we play around the golf together. That's it. Well depends that much money you do this. To do this. You give us three winters right now for the weekend. You get them. All right. We'll talk to you on Monday gray point. Okay. Okay. Right now, yet three winters grow. Take the points with Toronto. Tonight. It's wit Serano tonight yet. Minnesota Seattle over Minnesota Seattle over, I think it's eight and a half or nine are you talking twins and Mariners there? Yes, sir. All right. The twinkies. And, and let's go Yankees run line. The Yanks to the X run line many and Mariners over the twinkies and we have the points with Toronto. Are used. Here's the deal Bill take number damn. Okay. Corey if you go three and over the weekend, we will make this app it. I mean you're offering me free services, but I'm still I am not convinced. I want your services yet perhaps, they'll be more convinced after the weekend put him on hall. Get your number. And maybe perhaps your three wins away from becoming my best friend, that entertainment purposes, only, of course, of course, of course, I feel like you should take the spirit of the masters bet. And if he goes over three, there's got to be a penalty, you gotta go the other way on this if he goes three. No. He gets to be your best friend, make picture. You golfing. He goes oh, and three can listen again band. Transition time for some ants who's gonna make sure that happens, though, someone, Chris, you get a ride around in his car. Make sure you never listened to the show. Again. That's right. Everytime, you turn it on. You turn it off the good the enforcer. Cash. More of the Dan labor are show with stugatz, then to one eastern on ESPN radio and ESPN news, stugatz here. We all love night out, whether it seeing our favorite band in person or being there in the ground that you're on our favorite team with vivid seats. You can attend the concert show or sporting event of your choice at a great prize vivid seats is the top source for tickets for all the live events, you want to go to you can sort by price, or look for seats in the section and row of your choice to make things even better vivid is giving listeners and exclusive promo code for new customers receive ten percent off your first ticket order to save even more money about that. 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August 17th: Major General Jeffrey Schloesser HR 1

Mornings With Gail - 1310 KFKA

32:26 min | Last month

August 17th: Major General Jeffrey Schloesser HR 1

"This is mornings with kale and northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi k. Southbound myself right now of that ever changing story relative super and the fate of this Story restaurant you remember. We talked about The south park creators. saying that Yeah we can pony up some cash. Yoke think and it got all the cash they need. That's for sure But castle benita owners of castle benita at that point in time said nope while we might be in chapter eleven bankruptcy. Were not for sale. Funny how things change. This has apparently reportedly you've had those south park creators matt stone and trey parker they told the colorado governor jared polas they have tentatively agreed to purchase castle benito once again which had entered chapter eleven bankruptcy funny how things change on a dime six. Oh eight down. Northern colorado's voice one or three one thirteen ten. Kfi mornings with gail from the auto collision specialists studios all right. Brian kelly behind the glass at a con doing a masterful job as my musical maestro and my technical producer are you fan of south park It's very fever. Dream to me. You know like fever dream fever dream. Okay a yeah. It is kinda random yeah it just like that throughout obviously like the crude and topics talk about over. It just does not sit right with me and my body. It's kinda like arrested development right. Yeah we're just like stupid. Like family garlic american data futurama right. I really think like the animations. What makes me distrust. yeah. I mean we all have our guilty television. Viewing habits right are guilty pleasures. I am dave. Oh to some degree when i have the time watching the real housewives name the city course yell and scream at each other and drink into oblivion. You know them me. It's just it's unbelievable. It's like are you people really that shallow in that vein and know they all go on tv. And it's funny because Let's see we got the real housewives of atlanta and the real housewives of miami and the real housewives of new york and the The list goes on and on beverly hills and it's there seems to be a trajectory to that show because within several years. They're not housewives anymore there and it seems to me they should call it. The real x housewives fill in the blank citizens of orange county. Yeah exactly exactly. I mean just shaped my head in disbelief. It's kind of like watching a train wreck. Yeah but that's what makes it so much fun you know. Is that what it is. Yeah i guess you can just sit back and watch all the drama unfold. Maybe that's what it is because you say to yourself. Well you know what yeah. We've all got our issues. We've all got our problems and challenges. But when i look at that despite all the money. I mean there's something to be said for more money more problems because they've got more problems than cosmopolitan has issues. I mean and you sit there and you go well you know. All things considered my life really. Isn't that that don't truly i remember. I mean we've talked about this before. I believe off air but like vendor rules Entire relationship between the staff and everyone is just absolutely insane speaking of arrested development. I think he looked at up in the dictionary. You'll find a picture. Jack's jerk and then stasi got the a kibosh on the show. She got kicked off the show for well. Let's just say very ill time to tweet. Oh yes yes. yeah. I remember that one. Yeah exactly. But i mean jack stealing a pair of sunglasses in hawaii really. Jacks really gave a recall. I've watched shows like a year or two. So i can't recall what happens but i used to religiously watch it. Well if you are. Dave oh tae of south park if you've watched any of the twenty four seasons ryan. Can you believe south park's on for twenty four season. No it's insane right. There was that did they i. Oh my gosh. i don't know twenty four years ago i know. Hey exactly now. But twenty four seasons that exist of south park. If you've watched any of that no doubt you've heard those fourth graders. Talking in their fourth grade way about kassab anita in fact it was the entirety of the season. Eleven episode appropriately titled castle bonita match in that it focuses on the kids and their connection to kassab benita. Now again castle. Gina's we've talked about that. You know the only reason i bring this up is because who has gone to kassab nina. I mean really. If you've got kids if you've got people coming in from out town. I mean it's it's something to see right it's it's it's kind of iconic and you don't go there for the food okay. Maybe the sopapillas with those are really good but you go there for the show in the clip divers right well because of the pandemic once again kassab benita gone through some pretty tough times and we've gone through the trajectory of that you have the south park creators matt stone. Trey parker making an offer. Cast subpoenas saying nope. We're not for sale. Then they reconsidered and it was just this past friday that they told governor poll. As that they've tentatively agreed to buy kassab benita now. They haven't said yet what they plan to do with that but they did tell the governor that they do they have every intention to sink some money into it and improve upon it Parker said in a statement This past friday. I think everyone knows the potential of what the place can be and we certainly do. And i think it's going to be an awesome colorado thing now. Here's where it gets kind of interesting because the decision comes a week after the south park creators landed a nine hundred million dollar deal. Incredible with viacom. Cbs to continue the animated series through two thousand twenty seven and create fourteen count on south park features to exclusively stream on the paramount plus streaming app Stone gave his first in depth interview on the deal To bloomberg's screen time newsletter. Saying that the megadeal this nine hundred million dollar deal with viacom. Cbs now gives the sartre south park. Do big money. We're so rich we don't know what to do with it all money now. Stone referred to it in a more crass manner and being family show. Well you get the idea now. Stone and parker released the first south park movie south park bigger longer and uncut cut way back in nineteen ninety nine as for the fourteen features to come Features to come stone said streaming. Movies is pretty darn promising. No doubt caffeine acquisition. Not only sounds like an amazing town to diversify the pairs portfolio but utilize the squirting to appease. I pulled out of ya who entertainment but use some of that money for a good cause and a time when well so many people particularly in the restaurant biz are struggling We've been rich a long time stone fed in this bloomberg interview. Gay doesn't mince word. We have nice houses and cars. Apparently they have a one point. Five million dollar mansion up and steamboat. If i'm not mistaken. They've sold that if they've unloaded that or not but stone went on to say. Even this giant deal won't change my day to day. I'm not going to buy a new watch like he needs one. Where media company. We use the proceeds from this to invest These are multi year projects We invested a bunch of money in the next season. In case you just can't get enough of south park That'll watch on comedy central in two thousand nine hundred twenty two. The first two new south park films were will debut this year so looks as though Those divers. Hopefully they'll keep the cliff diving there because that's one of the things that makes a castle benita so special so unique. Six seventeen now. Northern colorado's voice one zero three one thirteen in k. f. a. this time sponsored by the candlelight dinner playhouse in johnstown bringing you an incredible production of shrek the musical taking center stage now through august twenty second time is growing show short to see the show so i would suggest you jump online too. Sweet for tickets and show information at colorado. Candlelight dot com candlelight. Interplay house in johnstown broadway in your backyard while the whole sports story in northern colorado state in the country tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two and thirteen ten. Kfi k. other in colorado's voice and your home for the denver. Broncos is one zero three point one in thirteen ten. Kfi six twenty five on your t. Say morning to start with spending time with us this morning on northern colorado's voice one three one thirteen ten kfi mornings with gail via the auto collisions specialists studios all right. Let's crack this wide open. Did anyone did you happen to watch president biden. I mean auguring. In very violent president biden yesterday saying that he stands squarely behind his afghanistan decision. I suppose we could ask the question. Could it have gone any worse. Well yes it could have gone worse. But i'll tell you what what we saw transpire from The announcement made in april. That we're gonna pull all of our troops out by september eleventh auspicious day to day of infamy certainly a a very symbolic date across this nation Which rankled no shortage of you. And i under i. Well understand why because it was a political base decision saying that. We're going to pull all of our troops out well. I can't help but wonder what did the president expect. Because he didn't telegraph this information. I mean this was an under the radar. No he trumpeted the fact that basically we were pulling up stakes and getting out of dodge afghanistan as the case may be after nearly twenty years. How many tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars how much blood has been spilled by american servicemen and women on afghan soil. I mean you talk about the terms of cost in our treasure. But not. I'm not talking money i'm talking about the treasure. Young individuals who so courageously and bravely took to battlefield in afghanistan fighting. What many referred to. I mean if you look back in time any nation that has invaded afghanistan has well turn tail and run just as america did and you look at the number of those who have lost their lives in afghanistan fighting Well once again Conflict that really had no clear endgame reference. Charlie wilson's war does yesterday. I don't know if you saw that movie or not but Yeah pretty much. Messed up the in game now. A lot of comparisons being made is this president. Biden's bay of pigs remember president kennedy in the bay of kids or pigs or is this his saigon moment in the waning days of the vietnam war. Do you remember those images as as well as you had. Americans standing atop the roof of the embassy in saigon waiting to be airlifted to safety. And when you saw those chaotic scenes coming out of afghanistan over the weekend as well yeah afghanistan has fallen to the taliban there so many questions as to how this could have been done in such a more graceful manner. And how many promises have we broken to those afghans. That spot to side by side with american troops with nato troops as well. But you had president. Joe biden saying no i stand squarely behind my decision now. He did call the anguish of the trapped. Afghan civilians gut wrenching well. And meanwhile you gotta love this right. The kinder gentler. And i use that term an air quotes the kinder. Gentler taliban is launching a full court press social pr campaign to soften their barbaric bloodthirsty image even inviting women. Oh to come work with them in their well. Let's just say Many afghanis not buying an and that's why we saw all of the chaos at the kabul airport which by the way has reopened but all the chaos as a so many. Were just trying desperately to get out of a nation that has crumbled that has fallen into the talibans hands. Stay with us. We're going to have a fascinating conversation with one major general. Geoffrey slow scher now. He's a retired army major general. He commanded the one hundred first airborne division for thirty three months including fifteen months in combat in afghanistan. Thirty four year army career. He served in afghanistan iraq kuwait. The list goes on and on and on he's author of a great book and a relevant Book as well to our conversation. This morning Marathon war leadership in combat in afghanistan major general geoffrey slow share joins us at six thirty five six thirty now one three one thirteen ten. Kfi a northern colorado's voice. What's happening in your own. Backyard listened to no co- now with tanner's swint a northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi kfi. It's greeley west day in thirteen days. Thirteen teams presented by bagley family dental tonight at five northern colorado's voice one zero three point one thirteen ten kfi k. Just slip out the back. So we beginning behind the exit from america's longest war as we saw those just a heartbreaking scenes of chaos particularly at the kabul airport as afghans along with the usa personnel struggled to get out of the country but what was the thought process behind a us leaving afghanistan. I mean seems to me that If that was our exit strategy well. It was disastrous. Don't take my word for it. Six thirty eight now. Northern colorado's voice one. Oh three one thirteen ten. Kfi mornings with gail via the auto collisions specialists studios joined this morning. By major general geoffrey slow he is author of marathon war leadership in combat in afghanistan and major. Thank you for taking the time this morning because my heart just breaks. I'm being. I whatever this was as you had president. Joe biden took off the camp david over the weekends and jen psaki. She's on vacation. She's not answering media questions. Well he finally reemerged for twenty minutes speech yesterday very defiant in his tone saying that he stands squarely behind the afghanistan decision. What say you well. Thanks for having mana show. I mean and very clearly. The president Basically said that. He thought he made the right decision and that he was making a decision for america. I i just have to say let me you know. I've i've spent on tire lifetime. Trying to protect america and americans and i think that the this withdrawal the way it was executed I would say. I'm not even sure what's plans at. All the way was executed. The way it's actually happening out in the ground is going to have dire consequences. Not only for america But also for all of our allies over the last twenty years and probably more importantly to other things. It's it's it's removing The promise that we gave a generation of afghans who actually enjoyed human rights over the last twenty years including so many half the female population right. I mean half or off female population half the population and then probably more importantly strategically and you know is that Everybody's got to be looking in america and going you guys weak-kneed you know you'd lack the willpower to do things the right way. You lack the confidence to do it. The right way. You know Maybe we can take advantage of you. I mean it's lesson our deterrence value of a strong country with the willpower to act on proper. I believe around the world illustrate to particularly our enemies as bad actors around. The globe does illustrate an america in decline. Absolutely gale and i want to remind all of our listeners that afghanistan is centered between the west iran. No friend of the united states To the north or the soviet former soviet republics that russia now really deeply interested in the stands to the east it borders on china and also borders on nuclear armed pakistan And to the south is the persian gulf in the streets of hormuz through which all oil for the rest of the world goes If you're china or your russia or your rain you know i mean. Obviously you're paying a heck of a lot of attention afghanistan because that's on your border and now you're seeing the united states and i dare say i mean. This is my opinion. You know. I gotta be Pretty close to here but it looks like we put her tail between her legs and we're runoff like a scared little puppy right and It is it's in my mind shameful the public way. More important than my. My shame is the idea that We have less nar deterrence value in our in a very tough world out there right and A lot of things going on and We have lessened. The united states stance. We've less and you know our perceptions of power and by the way in the world strength really does count and And the perception that you're willing to use it on right on the right things You have the moral courage to do that Yeah all of that. I think has been called in the question. And thank you for bringing up that point about moral courage and jeff because i watched the trailer for your book. Marathon war leadership in combat in afghanistan. And i wanted to ask you that question. The way in which this was carried out seems to so You know. He ignored all the input that he was getting a from military leaders. Like yourself those who have been immersed in afghanistan both literally and figuratively for years because well president bind just knows better. I mean you know no one does foreign policy any better than president biden seems to so they made the decision but there was no planning involved whatsoever. So i don't know if you watched president biden yesterday as he doubled down on this decision saying well. It happened a lot quicker than we thought it would. What what did he expect. I mean he didn't telegraph to the taliban we relieving. He trumpeted via press release via announcement that in april but talk about Those attributes of moral courage and confidence and character and personal honour. Did you see any of that yesterday. Why i didn't say i don't watch. The president speak and he very clearly believes that he made the right decision for future of america And you know. I obviously disagree for all the reasons i've already said I do believe this became a very personal decision. His point on his part. I have to believe than i do. Know about the secretary of defense. And i do know the term of the joint chiefs He served under me and afghanistan. While i wrote you know about this book. I know they know combats like i know they know what You know a tough characters like the taliban actually are they're liars and they cannot be negotiated with without position strength. So i just have to say that. I think the president amid a very personal decision and you know And then the military followed as they as they should Unfortunately i didn't see the plan that was necessary. Once he made it very clear he promised the world and the taleban that we would leave by september eleventh and that moved up to the end of august. Soon as you do that you lose almost every that power that you have because as you try to accomplish that you pull out your air power your poetry. Soldiers your visors and so does all of your allies. They all left as well. There were ten thousand troops serving with our thousand five hundred advisers. They're all gone. They left you know They help provide a huge amount of expertise without afghan army and some amount of expertise that afghan government they gave the public the afghans of backbone That was removed. Once you make that promise all off and and and as you said You know. I mean he how he feels is how he feels. But what's happening to america. What's happening to our deterrence Around the world. I think it's going to be very challenging over the next year and while he said the buck stops here referencing himself in the next breath he went on to blame the actions of president trump with regard to the taliban and the afghan fighters themselves. I found that very problematic. I think it was disingenuous. Anybody that's been involved in this war knows that there's been thousands upon thousands upon thousands of afghan soldiers that have been killed in action Again we didn't do this where we were treating them like kindergarteners. We were partners with them. You know we went into combat with them. We train with them. We've provided we told them we have. We're gonna provide your logistics background background backbone because you guys does the don't have one you know we're going to help provide the air corps until your air course fully train. What by the way our plan. So that they wouldn't be fully trained for another two years You know so. Finger pointing to the afghans themselves. I think is partially disingenuous. Am i disappointed that they didn't fight as much as they should have. And that the government collapsed the way it did with ghani leaving. I'm absolutely disappointed about that. There's no doubt about it But we played a role in that mean. We pulled the carpet underneath them. Yeah from underneath them. You can't you know. The president said in april. I told them that they'd have to get their act together. And they'd have to lead and have the willpower. That was just several months ago. Those few months ago you know You know i remind our listeners. You know we're still in germany after world war two. We still have troops. There were still in south korea. We're still and japan. We're still in kuwait after that conflict. We're still in kosovo. We stay in places for reasons that have personal interest on our national. You know that our national for us and You know in this case here. I mean i think we disregarded that and it's gonna come back to haunt us. You know like. I say america org gail We can forget about afghanistan. Afghanistan won't forget about us well and that was that goes to the heart of a question. I asked yesterday. I would say that We picked up all our and i don't mean to be disrespectful but Air quote toys. And just you know. We're we're out of we're out of here on home. Unfortunately no we left so much behind in terms of armament and what about intelligence all of that in the hands of the taliban. But here's my question just because we're done with them. Does it mean they're done with us. No you know. I mean there are well one. We all an awful lot to the afghans. Serve our country. There's thirty thousand interpreters. The and there are tens of thousands of troops Family members. And i think to my last count there about two thousand that we've been able to get out of the country because that was so bureaucratically bubbles as well You know so one. we're not gonna. We can't forget about that but they're not gonna they're not gonna stop trying to get out of that country they're not gonna stop trying to you know. Tell us. hey you owe us you know. We fought with as friends but probably more importantly is is that the al-qaeda islamic state all these other terrorist groups that are falling all ready back into the country. They've been fighting with the taliban against the afghans right. So they're going to go back and let's remember. The taliban wanna have vomit state of afghanistan. They're gonna worry about that. Al qaeda with their goal is to defeat the united states america. Our western allies. Anybody that has Beliefs that are different than their radical islamic believes. Anybody that has an economy. You know anybody. That has a participatory government. They're going be aiming for us yet again. It's gonna be like not before nine eleven You know we are better. Prepare our intelligence. Organizations are much better focused When our politicians allowed them to be so and i think going to see a renewed You know intent to ensure that al-qaeda does not attack us on our own homeland. Well and you know the optics of this. Were going to see the taliban flag. If it's not all ready flying over the embassy it soon will be as america essentially surrendered to the taliban as we approach the twentieth anniversary of Nine eleven the optics of this are just horrific unfortunately also is the reality. Yeah it certainly is no doubt whatsoever. I could continue this conversation with you all morning. I knew very busy. But i appreciate your service. First and foremost and your passion. Jeff slasher is a slow. Excuse me as a retired army major general. He commanded the one hundred first airborne division the thirty three months including fifteen months in combat in afghanistan. He's author a truly great book. A must read. So where can we find your book and gail our can find it online. You know either. At the amazon dot com dot com. Simon schuster dot com. Or if you like indie books like i do independent bookstores in dot com as well and really appreciate you talking about the book. Now thank you so much again. The book of marathon war leadership in combat in afghanistan major. Slow sir. thank you again. Thanks guilt by by sixty one now. Northern colorado's voice one of three one. Thirteen ten kfi k. Here mornings with gail weekdays. Six to nine and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. Comoran kfi k. Programs podcast sports schedule news goto. Thirteen ten kfi k. A. dot com now back to mornings with kale coming way yet this morning. Very busy tuesday on colorado's voice one three one thirteen ten kfi k. A. morning sagale from the auto collision specialists studios stay with us. Eight thirty five. It is day seven thirteen days at thirteen teens presented by our umbrella sponsor pro design counter top specialists but always enjoy the chance to get into The discussions with a clark. Johnson our voice of preps radio of course host of clark and the coach weekdays at eleven thirteen days thirteen teams at five right after the good afternoon. Guy with a brian. Gary heard weekdays third three to five. Well we're going to get into the valley. Vikings today and talk about everything that they can look ahead to in thirteen days. Thirteen teams when kirk. Johnson joins us this morning at eight thirty five. We're also going to check in with a cdot region for communications manager jared file when he joins us while we're still figuring out the exact time sometimes things are a little bit Fluid here but stay with us as the world. Food bank is seeking volunteers. A great chance for you to give back to the community as so many of you always do western edmonds communications manager. Well foodbank joins us at seven. Oh five kfi greeley. It's seven o'clock.

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745: Getting Out

This American Life

1:02:56 hr | 2 weeks ago

745: Getting Out

"Support for this. American life comes from capital one with no fees or minimum some checking and savings accounts banking with capital. One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions kind of choosing to listen to your favorite song on repeat and with their top rated app. You can deposit checks and transfer money anytime anywhere. Making capital one even easier decision. That's banking reimagined. What's in your wallet. Terms apply capital one and a member. Fdic a quick warning. There are curse words. That are unbeaten in today's episode of the show. If you prefer beep version you can find that at our website. This american life dot org from wbz chicago. It's this american life. I'm david kastenbaum sitting in for glass. Ijima can you hear me. I don't okay. So are you still in front of the canadian or not. The comedian into your in the water right now. This is a phone call between a man and california and a man standing in a canal outside the airport in kabul ghanistan. That'll make more sense in a minute. We a totally different show planned for you today. But then we came across this phone call and it just seemed important to put it on. The air. now is from monday before the explosion around the airport that killed dozens of people. But it's a snapshot in away from the last hours of this war. The us leaves afghanistan when who would get out and who would not was all still being decided hour by hour. So we're going to do on the show today is we're going to hear the story of that phone call. And then we're going to play you some other stories about getting out about people trying to extricate themselves from seemingly impossible situations so the first guy heard on the call. The guy in california is kirk. Johnson we've had him on the show before and when things started to fall apart in afghanistan he reached out to us because years ago he did reconstruction work in iraq for the us government and since then for a long time. Now he's been trying to get people in iraq and afghanistan who've worked with the us government and who are in danger out of those countries you started an organization back in two thousand seven called the list project so these past weeks kirk has been on the phone constantly and on monday night with his kids asleep in the other room. He had the series of phone calls which he recorded with the man you heard his name is optimal and kirk is trying to talk them through the crowds and the confusion and chaos around the airport. Neff ghanistan to try to get optimal and his family past all the barriers hopefully onto a plane out of the country. All this is happening over the phone from half a world away. Nancy updike here has known kirk for many years. She talked to him about what happened. Here's nancy kirk. Didn't know before monday night. He never met him he just heard. This was a person who needed help one of the many people who needed help. Whose names have been piling up in these threads kirk has been on all week group chats with us veterans active military current and former diplomats aid workers some afghan citizens of the us and other countries all on their phones day and night trying to help afghans get out monday night. Kurt called okay. So are you still in front of the canadian or not. Yeah kind of canadian into you're in the water right now. The canadian is a canadian. Soldier and the water is the canal. Right outside the kabul airport. The only thing. I was trying to do here. The whole thing is to slog his way to within earshot of the one canadian soldier he can see and make himself heard above the crowd worked for an ngo funded by the united states. And now he and his family need to leave him his parents and his brother. They're luckier than most of the people around them because they have citizenship in another country he and his family are all canadian citizens. And please picture this young canadian. Ajmal kirk sent me a photo him in the canal. Jamal is twenty seven years old. Pretty sure he could pass for. Nineteen without his goatee. He's slight big glasses wearing his backpack in front of him on his chest. Like nervous tourist. He is knee deep in water on one. Side of the canal is a growing crowd of afghans on the other our soldiers and behind the soldiers is the path to get into the airport. You know the name. The soldiers name no waiting exactly. How jamal came to be standing in a canal is hours earlier. He'd received an email with instructions for what to do how to get out. He forwarded the email to kirk. Here's the email that i got at three one a. m. from From the canadian government cook. Read the key part important instructions. Go to the baron hotel immediately. All caps do not wear western style clothing all caps the prepared to wait for many hours once inside. Go to the garden and sit under the canadian flag and wait for canadian. Officials bring food and water if possible. That's the official process. Here get yourself to a hotel garden. Sit down under a flag. Do this immediately somehow bring water. And his family had gone to the place they thought was the baron hotel but it was the wrong place no canadian officials. They could see seem to be all british people. So kirk drew map looking at google maps with the root ajmal. His parents and his brother needed to through more crowds to get to the right place. The canal believe it or not was the right place were as close as they were able to get. The canal is next to the baron hotel and there was a canadian soldier there. They could see him yet. A little canadian flag on his uniform but he kept stepping away. Okay is he back good. He's talking to someone else. Okay okay trying to get the soldiers attention because as i keep saying optimal is a citizen of canada. He is not a supplicant. He has the right papers but jamal who comes across as a cautious rule following sort of person with his face masks pulled neatly under his chin in case he's ever inside again. That young man is stuck in a canal. I'll be patient. Other people in the same situation might have trouble bellowing to get someone's attention soft-spoken asthma is saying. Excuse me excuse me canada. The soldier is talking to other people. Were walking even further away. Ajmal asks kirk what words. He should be calling out to him. Got you win when you get an opportunity. Ajmal okay. Can you hear me. You know. I'm going to stay on the line with you when when he finishes with this guy. You need to say that. There is a a friend of a canadian minister on the phone can use a friend of a canadian minister on the phone. It's true kirk. Previous wife is friends with canadian member of parliament. A minister who at that point was fast asleep and had no idea this was happening. Kirk is trying to think of anything he can tell say to get the soldiers attention name-dropping. Yes sure definitely not. Where is he. I read it for him. Okay i don't want you to just say canada. I want you to say i'm canadian citizen. He doesn't know me he's putting trust in me. I don't know him. I've already pushed him to fight through the crowd and jump into the canal. That was your idea to get in the canal. Yes by the time of that phone call. That was already when he got to the back end of that crowd and saw thousands of people he said. There's i can't do this. There's no i have my parents here. Third we're not. We can't get to the front. We're just gonna have to try another day or or wait for you to work your connections to get the canadians to come out. And and and find us. And i told them this is all over text. They're not gonna come out for you. You have to push through that crowd and his sister was on the thread and a couple of other People who have been who had been trying to to help him and they were messaging me saying go easy on him. He was in the hospital last week with a panic attack. He's you know he's you know they were basically saying He's already at the breaking point. But i do that if he couldn't get within earshot of a canadian soldier he had there was. There was nothing not knowing if he gives up today. Whether or not the doors will be completely shut tomorrow and the thing that is is wayne on on me. But i'm not telling him. Is this dread of one. Rogue talib opening fire into that crowd. One i e d going off in that crowd less than twenty four hours. After we talked a bomb was detonated outside the airport and someone started shooting into the crowd so everything came down to try to get him in the right point on earth where his voice would be loud enough to be heard and strong enough to be listened to your in the right position. But i think they're leaving. What what do you okay. I think the you have you have to shout. I'm a canadian citizen. Do it right now if you see them. Not canadian say canadian citizen. You can't just say canadian ajmal. You have to say canadian citizen. I keep saying that if you have sharp ears you can hear kirk swearing under his breath. All during this call basically cursing his way through the stress. What's happening. I think what he's saying. The crowd is increasing. It's increasing. I know i know but you are. You're in the right position. You can't give up right now. You i mean that's my now. That's how far away are they. Kirk is groaning. because he didn't realize was separated from his family his parents brother at this point even if they're not that far away right now while alma kirk focused on connecting with this soldier as well as family could get pushed out of sight as the crowd keeps swelling and pushing forward. A bad scenario would be optimal ends up getting out but his family stays lost in the throng on these group threads. These chats kirk is following. They are full of stories of family. Members getting separated agua hadn't wanted to bring his parents and his brother into this gross canal unless it was clear they were going to get out. He said the bottom of the canal had these slippery stones and he worried one of his parents would fall injure themselves now. There's no time for armada break off and go get them. He has to keep trying to reach this soldier. You can't lose that spot. You have that you had that soldier right in front of you. He's gonna come back. Turn both of you. Have you have to stay in that spot and wait for him to come back the fact that you just sent me that i wouldn't call me back as soon as he gets. Close okay just in case. Anyone is finding their ire at this point focused on canada. I want to state the obvious and say that in the big picture. This was our show the united states. Our plans our timeline. Those were dictating the overall scene at the airport and got back on the phone. They've been at it for almost six hours. Do not let them go away without saying. You're a canadian citizen. And a minister is on the phone. Minute goes by. Where kirk can't tell what's happening. Jamal keeps asking him. Please wait please wait. Don't don't worry about me. Just do not let them leave without saying what i told you another half minute. Asthma is fading despair. The soldier isn't responding to him funding. What did you say so much. Are you still close to him. Another agonizing minute and a half and then suddenly can you hear me love. Hello who's this yes. Who am i talking to this kirk. Johnson i've served a in iraq. Sorry can you hear me can okay. You have four canadian citizens there. I'm calling on behalf of melanesia lee. Who's a minister of economic development. Four canada four canadian citizens. They were asked to go in there right now. Look and they've they've been pushed back several times so it there's a lot of people here. We will protest against. I understand but i just need your assurance that they're going to get through because the one of the group is in poor health so and i know that melanesia is is. She's the minister is one she wants through this just. I didn't need to be able to tell the minister that they're through. I'm gonna look at his paperwork and they will be able to get through cocaine. I'm going to stay on the line. Thank you for doing that. I appreciate. I know. I know you got your hands full. I know i'll tell them to say out. I'm grateful to you for your help. Sir thank you okay. I'll give him the back okay. I'm going to stay on the line. It's not clear. If the canadian minister gambit carried any sway with this soldier he mostly sounds like he wanted to get off the phone and get back to work but admiral finally had his attention. And what a frightening degree of perseverance. It took mall to get to this point where he could just hand someone who's papers and even perseverance most likely wouldn't have been enough about luck without connections to these groups kirk and others are part of were someone else with power. How many people in the crowd around ajmal had perseverance even courage but none of the luck. Okay yeah can you hear me. Okay get your family close to you. K- i don't tell tell them to come. You may have to wait a while but do not do not be separate from them now. Do not move where you are. Okay okay kirk. And i did this interview day and a half after this call with asthma. Ended and kirk was still waiting to hear if jamal and his family made it out then finally. He got a text from him. It came through as kirk. And i were finishing up our interview. He he i. He texted me On oh my god would they just got on a plane family there on a plane. Yes there's one story that took kirks breath away even the retailing. It was the way osmo ended up finding his brother after he made contact with the soldier because osmo family as kirk had feared had gotten lost in the crowd. You don't have to have brothers to to feel this but My brothers are my best friends and The way that i subsequently found out he was able to to get them was that he just called from the canal into this crowd asking his fellow afghans to to start calling his brother's name and they all started shouting it out and that's how they found his his brother and parents and so they then got into the canal from there and joined him You like i feel. I want to feel proud about this. And a few like this is a good story but it's just There's so much more suffering that has happened in people that aren't getting through. I don't want people who hear this to think that You know people who are sort of discomfited what they're hearing about this. Who may not really be close to the situation or understand what's going on to be like. Oh hey i heard it's bad but hey all right good now this guy. This has a happy ending a happy ending for this guy and his family and for a small percentage of the lucky few that are getting through I fear that we're we're not going to really see the full toll of this when this is all over. And we're we're just about at the end of this whole disaster at the start of something much darker i fear. I fear that too. Nancy updike is one of the producers of our show coming up some of our favorite stories. We've run about getting out including a choose your own adventure story about getting out of a relationship. Yeah choose your own adventure on the radio somehow. That's in a minute from chicago. Public radio when our program continues support for this american life comes from better help online therapy making professional therapy accessible affordable and convenient better offers licensed therapist who specialize in issues including depression and anxiety as well as relationships trauma anger and more you connect privately with your therapist through chat phone or video calls and you'll get on your own time at your own pace at an affordable rate for ten percent off your first month of online therapy. Visit better help dot com slash t. a. l. That's better h. E. l. p. dot com slash t. a. l. support for this american life. Comes from straight talk. Wireless five g. is here. But the big carriers probably want you to sign a pricey long term contract to get in on it not anymore because straight talk wireless has ruled out five g. coverage nationwide with plans starting at just thirty five dollars a month and no contract all on america's best networks five g. coverage five g phones less money. Straight talk wireless no contract no compromise available at walmart and walmart dot com five g. capable device required actual availability coverage and speed may vary if this american life david kastenbaum in for ira glass. This week on our show getting out stories of people making out of seemingly impossible situations are trying to anyway act too. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave. So what are the things about trying to get out of. An intense situation is that it can feel like every little decision make might take you down the wrong path back when she was a teenager. One of our co workers on the baker found herself in that position. She's trapped in a hotel room with her siblings. Held there by a stranger. What happened was the family was all staying at the marriott but there's such a big family that the parents and the oldest kid were in one room l. Nna and the three other kids were next door in their own room. There was elena who was fourteen at the time julia who is ten britain. Who is eight. And jill who has five on the sharing a bed with her elmo. Who's in eighth grade at. The time was more or less in charge and then one night. They're all sleep. It's the middle of the night. She told the saltire. My memory is that. If i saw like a sliver of light which is what woke me up and the sound of the door closing in there was the feeling that there was someone standing at the foot of the bed so i reached over and i turn the lamp on and there was this woman and she looked startled to see us and the first thing she said was. You're just children. I didn't expect you to be children. So that's pretty creepy right. what did you make. They're saying that. I instantly felt like this is an unsafe situation. Yeah describe her remember. She was my mom's age so she was probably in her forties and Brown hair white kind of like frumpy looking like somebody. You'd sit next to on the bus or something that she seem menacing. She seemed really distressed. She was crying too. she's crying. she was crying. She cried the whole time. Show there. She's crying and she said your children. I didn't expect you to be children and the other kids get up. Everyone's wide awake. I distinctly remember my little brothers and sisters faces because there is burgess huge but no one said anything and they sitting up to or they dislike lang flat still. They're still laying flat like nobody miffed burr She's talking right. This isn't how is supposed to be and and she's also crying and she's talking to herself. I remember being very hard to follow. What what. She was saying and Eventually i said I'm sorry. I think you have the wrong room. And she started to cry and she said. I know i know i do this. I do this. I don't know why i do this. And then she's pacing back and forth And and kind of crying and she sits down on the bed at the foot of the bed. Did she seem crazy or does she seem upset. I mean it's interesting i was. I think i. I was too young and unfamiliar to identify. What a crazy person seems. Like but what i could identify in that moment was that this person was unpredictable. So you go have got to be really careful how i do this. I remember feeling that pressure and in that moment very very very aware of my brothers and sisters because they were so little and that something bad could happen to them and that the way that it wasn't going to happen to them was me. There were no adults there. I think the first situation. I was ever in where there was. You couldn't defer to someone else to to keep you safe or tell you what to do. And why do i do. And it had that quality of like time slows down. And you're kind of you're there but you're also watching and then i did the math in my head and i was like okay. I have a couple of options. They are cry for help scream. But i don't think anyone will here I remember looking at how far away. The phone was for me. And i realized i can reach and grabbed the phone and call for help or Even like like if i could knock on the door where my sister was sister in the connecting room. Next door i could. At least they would know something was happening in here and they could get to us in time. But all of that felt like Like an escalation. Like i would provoke her. And so what. Can i do not provoke her. Kind of play up the fact that we're children and What i felt i needed to do was i needed to calm her down and become her friend and if i could become her friend she would leave and she wouldn't hurt us like get her to see you as a person like maker think i was on her side because then it didn't feel like she didn't see his people. It just felt like gum. If dangerous and i didn't understand why and i felt like the key to being safe was slowing everything down and i remember saying like i'm really sorry. I'm sorry i'm sorry i'm here. I'm sorry i'm doing this. I'm sorry and i don't remember this but my brother remembers that what she said was. I'm sorry girls. I'm sorry girls and his whole memory of this night was just being like i'm a boy So i asked her. I said are you okay. Is everything okay. And that's she kept going on about how her night was so hard and i was like. I'm so sorry. That sounds really really difficult. Trying to befriend her. Yeah this me. Trying to befriend her. But it's weird. I feel like. I was hyper alert to like if i can understand. What's going on with her. I can help solve it. But i couldn't understand because it didn't make any sense did feel sorry for. I've felt concerned for her and And then she took her out her purse and she reached into her person and then she grabbed onto something. And i remember thinking like oh no they what the way they can like. It's like a gun or something all right garnering knife or something. I remember my heart just dropping and then she pulled out a hairbrush and then she started brushing her hair. Like at the foot of my bed and and at that point i was like this is really weird. This is and i don't think she's going to leave. And then she sat on the vanity in front of the mirror the desk and she took her earrings off and and she started like take sugar shoes off. They took her coat off just like making herself comfortable to be here now. And so i let her do all that And would sort of listening to her. Go on about what was wrong. And then eventually after i felt like enough time had passed. I said we We have to wake up early to go to school tomorrow. And we're really tired. So i think we should probably go back to bed and she was like i know. I'm sorry. i'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm here i'm here. I'm sorry i'm here. And i said No it's like totally. You hear almost like you know. Thank you for being here but Do you mind Leaving now and so. I like very slowly stood up and walked over to the door and like every was like making sure dave and then i opened the door and she said okay okay. She put her shoes on and she started to leave and just as she was about to leave. I said oh you forgot your earrings. And then she started crying all over again like it was. This huge thing walked over to get the earrings and then sat back down on the bed. And i remember thinking like why did i bring up the earrings like we were so close to being safe. The whole thing is basically the whole thing started all over again right to like listen to her cry like calm her down and then finally. I'm like You know we have to wake up early to go to school. do mind leaving. And i walked her to the door and she walked out of the door and is soon as she was out of the door. I just like like push the door. As hard as i could to close it and when i pushed it like bisque like slammed it shut. She screamed at the top of her lungs. And is there like a bolt or something on the door. I think i did bolted after. I slammed at shy and then i heard her screaming in the hallway and she ran down the hallway screaming and she ran back towards the door screaming and that must have been terrified was so scary and then then it was quiet and then i heard this loud. She's like banging on the door like as hard as you can right. And then i hear a voice since my dad. My dad's like open. The door opened the door. And i realize it's not her band the door. So i opened the door and my dad standing there and he's like. Did you hear someone screaming in the hallway. So then i tell missile story. I'm like there's this woman juice room. I tell them all the details and he is furious. You're so matt And then he told us to stay there. Shut the door. Don't open the door. And then he went downstairs and talk to the hotel about it in. They tell him that she had been outside. She was crying. They asked if she was a guest there. She said yes. Her name was elena baker and so they looked up the name elena baker elena baker and your name is ellen baker. He asks okay. But i don't believe this part of the story. I think someone at the hotel gis said this to him cover and then they gave her a key and i gave her a key. Yep and So the hotel offered him. You know the whole safer. Free everything for free. And he's like. I don't care about your money. I want you guys to do a formal investigation as to how this happened. While it's a white man takes charge move does not white. Oh point take listen hispanic man. I was thinking like you just never hear like somebody be like. I demand a formal investigation. You know what i mean. It's like as member of congress or something you know. Yeah yeah all right anyway. But that's what i mean. That's totally my. That's my dad. Point taken okay And so they do a formal investigation which they then sent my dad and long after you've gone from the hotel exactly and in it there's a picture of the woman and then there's her history. She had been in a psychiatric hospital and escape that night. Come to the hotel and She had a long history of breaking into people's homes and like he's not certain about this parts. I don't remember. He doesn't remember what he says that he he remembers her being Like she had attacked people in g broken into their homes. That's what he remembers. That's the way he remembers the part of the story. The best gatien who the woman was an only found that out a couple of years ago which asked her about it at the time back when she was fourteen her parents kept all that from her brother and sisters they didn't want them to dwell on it. Make them afraid of the world. They didn't win that evening to become a bigger deal already was on says today that worked. And it's funny. I've even as i've told this story over the years people like that so traumatic. Or that's crazy. I don't think of it like that. It just it just sort of like Because nothing bad happened. It has no category for me. If that makes sense it was it's been easier. It was easier to just think. Oh this one. This weird thing happened one night when we were in a hotel. In retrospect would you have preferred if they had told you back when you were fourteen. No i think it's good that i got to live in a world that i think is safe on the other hand. She says if they had made clear how much danger she was in the families. Memory of her memory of it would be of this. Weird event with no category is random. It happened one night instead fit squarely into the category called. Victory solid win for fourteen girl a big religious family when she got that stranger out of their hotel room without anybody getting hurt. And i'm the says she would have liked that win inside a room with an unpredictable person. Really all you got. Is you wits and your ability to read situation. You judgment guessing. What a work to show everybody. Even kid can make the right call. Sometimes the pay attention casino baker. One of the producers are xiao talking to ira glass. Act three you can't go your own way in her memoir in the dream house carmen. Maria machado wrote this chapter. That set up like a choose your own adventure story which i thought was so smart when i read it in it. She imagined different choices. She could have made with a partner that she's in a bad relationship with an abusive relationship and one of the things that captures is just the mental energy. That somebody in that situation can end up putting into trying to figure out what they do or not do to avoid setting their partner heads up that. This excerpt includes a scene with sexual content. It's read for us by actress. Zoe winters page one. You wake up and the air is milky and bright. The room glows with the kind of effervescent contentment. Despite the boxes enclosing dishes you think to yourself. This is the kind of morning you could get used to when you turn over. She is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light colonels in your stomach. You don't remember ever going from awake too afraid so quickly you are moving all night. She says your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake if you apologize. Profusely go to page two. If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows toucher in your sleep. Go to page three if you tell her to calm down. Go to page five. I choose page to page two. I'm so sorry you tell her. I really didn't mean to. I just moved my arms around a lot in my sleep. You try to be light about it. Did you know my dad. Does the same thing. The sleeping damsels swoon. So weird i must have. Are you really sorry. She says. I don't think you are i. Am you say you want the first impression of the morning to return to you. It's freshness it's light. I really am prove how. Stop i told you. I can't fuck yo she says and gets out of bed. You follow her all the way to the kitchen. Age seven page seven breakfast scrambled eggs. Make some toast. She eats mechanically and leaves the plate on the table. Clean that up. She says as she goes to the bedroom to get dressed. If you stare mutely at the dirty plate and all you can think about. Is clara barton. The feminist icon of your youth. Who had to teach yourself how to be a nurse and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn and you remember being so angry and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper and your mom said yes and your dad said no and you for the first time had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was. Go to page ten if you do as you're told go to page eight if you tell her to do it herself. Go page five page five. Are you kidding. He'd never do this. Don't try to convince any of these people that you'd stand up for yourself for one second. Get out of here. Go to the next chapter. You're out wait no. Let's try that again. I go to page eight page eight as your washing the dishes you think to yourself. Maybe i should put a tack on my forehead. Maybe i should be a better person. Go to page one page one. You wake up in the air as milky and bright. The room glows with the kind of effort bessant contentment despite the boxes and clothes dishes. You think to yourself. This is kind of morning if you get used to. When you turn over she is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light. Colonels in your stomach you don't remember ever going from awake too afraid so quickly. You are moving all night. She says your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake if you apologized refuse. Sleep go to page two if you tell her to calm down go to page five if you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows toucher in your sleep. Go to page three. Go to page three page three baby. If this ever happens in the future you can always wake me up. And i'll go to the couch. I promise i really don't mean to do it. I don't have any memory of it. I can't control how a move in my sleep. You are such a fucking count. She says you never take responsibility for anything. All you have to do is wake me up. You say a kind of incoherent desperation zipping through your skull. That's it wake me up and tell me to move or sleep on the couch. And i will do it. I swear to you fuck you. She says and gets out of bed. You follow her to the kitchen. Go to page seven page. seven breakfast. He scramble makes makes them toast. She eats mechanically and leaves the played on the table. Clean that up. She says she goes to the bedroom to get dressed if you do as you're told go to page eight if you tell her to do it herself. Go to page five. If you stare mutely at the dirty plate and all you can think about is clara barton. The feminist icon of your youth. Who had to teach yourself how to be a nurse and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn and you remember being so angry and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper and your mom said yes. Your dad said no and you for the first time had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was. Go to page ten Peach ten that night. She you as you lie there. Mutely praying for it to be over praying. She won't notice you're gone. You avoided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit reflexive as a psi. It reminds you of your first boyfriend who do while watching porn howie rutted and rutted and then every so often lifted the remote to rely on something. You couldn't see once you turn your head over the lip of the bed and saw tangle of upside down limbs and your brain couldn't make sense of them. You never looked again. You would just lie. There silently watching his face move over you. It was like being unfolded beneath theon of the planetarium. As a kid the sped up rotation of the earth the movement of the stars the constellations melting into and out of being you shudder and moan with precision. She turns off the lights. You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you or you leave to sleep. Go to page fourteen to dream about the present. Go to page thirteen to dream about the future. Go to page twelve to dream about the past. Go to page eleven. I wanna dream about the past. I choose page eleven. Page eleven the first time. It happened the first time she yelled at you so much. You're crying within thirty seconds from waking a record. She said the first ten minutes of the day. I'm not responsible for anything. i say. The struck you as poetic you even wrote it down. Sure you would find a place for it in a book. Maybe go to page fourteen Page nine you shouldn't be on this page. There's no way to get here from the choices given to you. Do you think that by flipping through this chapter linearly. You'd find some kind of relief. Don't you get it. All of this shit already happened. And you can't make it not happen no matter what you do. Do you want a picture of a fawn. Will that help okay. here's a fun. She is small and dabbled and loose legged. She hears a sound freezes and then bolts. she knows what to do. She knows there somewhere safer. She can be go to page ten. I don't wanna go to page ten page six. You shouldn't be on this page. There's no way to get here from the choices given to you. You flipped here because you got sick of the cycle. You wanted to get out. You're smarter than me. Go to page ten fine. I go page ten page ten. That night she fucks as you lie. There mutely praying for it to be over prank. She won't notice you're gone. You avoided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit reflexive as a psi. It reminds you of your equipment. The earth the movement of the stars the constellations melting into and out of being you shudder and moan with precision. She turns off the lights. You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you or you leave it to sleep. Go to page fourteen to dream about the past. Go to page eleven to dream about the president. Go to page thirteen page thirteen. You shouldn't be here but it's okay. It's a dream. She can't find you here in a minute. You're gonna wake up and everything is going to seem like it's the same but it's not there's a way out you're listening to me you can't forget when you wake up you can go to page fourteen. I want to dream about the future. I go to page twelve page twelve. It's going to be right one day. Your wife will gently adjust your arm if it touches her face at night. Soothingly straightening it while kissing. You sometimes will wake up just enough to notice other times. She'll only tell you in the morning. It's the kind of morning to get used to go to page fourteen page fourteen. You wake up and the air is milky bright. The room goes with the kind of effervescent contentment. Despite the boxes and closing dishes you think to yourself. This is the kind of morning you could get used to when you turn over. She is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light colonels in your stomach. You don't remember ever going from awake too afraid so quickly you were moving all night. She says your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake if you apologize. Profusely go to page two. If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows toucher in your sleep. Go to page three. If you toss back the blankets from your body and hit the floor with both feet and tear through the house like it's pamplona and when you get to the driveway your car keys are already in your hand and you drive away with theatrical squeal of tires never to return again go page fifteen page fifteen. That's not how it happened but okay we can pretend i'll give it to you just this once. Turn to page sixteen page. Sixteen an end. In the pit of it you fantasize about dying tripping on a sidewalk and stumbling into the path of an oncoming car a gas leak silently offing. You in your sleep. A machete-wielding madman on public transit. Falling down the stairs the drunk. So you flop limb over limb like marionette and feel no pain anything to make it stop. You have forgotten how zoe winters reading a chapter from carmen. Maria machado's memoir in the dream house. Carmen has a comic series out now. Called the low. Low woods from dc comex. You can see zoe winters in season. Three of hbo's succession which is out in october. Act for blue kid on the block. This last story is about what happens after you get out in this particular case when you get out of rochester new york. The kid in this story who were going to call leo not as real name. His family had moved to an entirely different state and he was not happy about it at the time. Leo was just starting seventh grade. He's having a harder time finding a place in middle school than other middle school kids. Because you know he was new to town. But also because leo still loved rochester. He loved his school there. He loved his friends. Suddenly everything about his life was different. And according to leo much worse the signature on his g mail account now read. Rochester is much better in big red letters. Sarah kane knows leo and his parents. She visited them at home to leo. Is doing this is how much leo does not want to be here. When i got to his house he was on the sofa with a laptop investigating. Greyhound bus schedules. His mother was going to drive him and his sister back to rochester for the columbus day weekend but not until saturday morning and lewanda get there friday for more time with his friends a stage negotiation followed with his dad. For one thing. I take it costs money. That's not a problem for you know that wasn't a problem you know but isn't one nine six fifteen in the morning and you will let me miss school on friday. The bus takes eight hours. Even if you left at noon you get. You're gonna do the math. That's excellent never mind that the bus takes twice as long as driving and never mind that leo would be alone and to change buses and then his parents had no intention of letting him go through with this plan. But it's the kind of negotiation you indulge when your kid is miserable and leo is miserable. He told me right away he was and that he had been from the moment he got here in. August is the first time you in your life where you felt like you've been sad about something for this long. I think so except for maybe when my other cat died my cat. Does this feel worse than that. Yes i've never had long periods of said until now don't know i don't know anyone here really and i think it's just everything in general overwhelming back in rochester. Leo had known all his best friend since kindergarten before they played together at school after school on weekends. Everybody everybody everything was comfortable and as a sixth grader. In his old school he and his friends were at the top of the heap. They were green sashes in the morning and got to be door monitors for the younger kids coming into the building. So imagine now. Leo takes a school bus for the first time to his new school. A sprawling one story building full of sixth seventh and eighth graders small for his age. Only a hair taller than his sister is only nine years old on day one. He knows exactly no one who had much louder than my old school much. Louder people talking people closing opening lockers. People walking just noise is older. Kids more kids because miles was tiny. Leo's between these old enough to decipher greyhound bus schedules. But not old enough to actually travel on one by himself. An old enough to know that if he's going to survive in middle school he has to make friends. But that making those friends stands to be significantly more complicated than it was back in rochester. Leo sister auden is in fourth grade. He says she's not having his heart a time of it. She hasn't been alive as long as she hasn't made a deep connections and she already met some a friend in her school. I think it's easier to make friends on the metro school on in middle school. Because people care less about who you are. What do you mean by that. The older you get the marie judge people on their looks their background their how they act like what cool is for kids because in kindergarten you could just walk up to someone and say do you want to be my friend and they then that would be it but it's harder. I think people are more wary before they open up like first grade. I if i met someone. I wouldn't really care who they were. Just care if they were nicer not the day. I interviewed him. Lead had a couple of breakthroughs. He emailed his parents during the school day to tell them the first piece of good news they'd had from him until that day. The emails had mostly been three desperate words. I feel awful that even a period at the end to make the feeling finite was an endless awful but on this thursday he wrote to tell them mashed potatoes. They serve in. The cafeteria were great followed by four exclamation points. Second and this was the big news. He asked another kid if he wanted to come over. Leo told me he thought about it first few days and finally emailed the boy whose name is devon another seventh grader. But now. Leo didn't wanna call devon's house to finalize a plan. He dreaded the awkwardness of the phone. So his dad called devon's parents introduced himself as leo's father. He goes to school with your son. Evan and we were devon. i'm so sorry devon. i'm getting evil for my son. I apologize but we're hoping devon can come over on sunday thinks i panicked beco- not well i thought you might be upset about it would be gets sulky but here. He was cracking up joking with his dad. It was such a relief to hear him laugh after he'd been so solomon our interview and i thought this is all gonna be okay. He's going to snap out of it. He's almost there and afternoon with devon is gonna do the trick then. Sunday came now. I have three health again wolster. Okay i'm going to tell my wolf to attack man. We are taught devon how to play dungeons and dragons and the wolf on its feet. Go wealthy multi multi and so weird on the drive home. Leo and talk nonstop gentle rat-a-tat one-upmanship emanating from deep inside a computer game. I am i am. What else warlock locks are fun. Can you summon your imp- yet Yeah you start with him all right. I like I had a goblin. Sean i want. And i i can turn into a chat at level eight snooze and at level twelve you bear and then by the time they dropped them and off. They were giggling our response. Whatever you call said isn't a and we can come football. Thanks for coming over. Thank you for inviting tomorrow. So a perfect day right. Leo's parents relieved hopeful. But no it's wednesday. You had your friend over on sunday how to go when okay. Yeah when okay. Has it changed anything about Being here oh a little bit. I don't think very much but a little bit. Yeah what's changed. What's the little bit. I know someone at school. It helps not all that much but sort of yeah and this is when i realized i underestimated the depth of leo's gloom that he greets every morning of every school day with dread and not because he's being bullied or anyone's being mean to him. I feel sick. Because i know that i have a whole day after me and then i have the next day and the next day and the next and the next day and the next day ahead of me does it pass once you get to school. It usually Good increases to a climax around lunchtime. And i actually have been throwing up recently and then it just stays that level sickness until i get on. You're kidding me. You're throwing up at school. he yeah. That's awful in the bathroom or where. Yeah in the bathroom usually lunch. I feel really bad and then go to the bathroom. And i throw up as that happened this week today did do you tell your parents. I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go or do you. Just you know you have to see. Don't say anything. No i throw a screaming fit every morning. Yeah pretty much. I didn't today. What was different about this morning. How come you didn't today. I felt resigned. I knew that. I would have to go anywhere. So i gave up. Here's the curse of being almost thirteen old enough to understand. His life will supposedly get better with time but not old enough to really believe he's gonna feel any differently than he does right this minute. Since making friends with devon. Leo is one step toward being the kid. He wants to be someone with pals someone who's comfortable yen but he says right now he's just worried he's going to be throwing up all year. Sarah caning she's the host of cereal emirs since this story. Ron leo has made many friends. They've become immersed in the world of theater and has finally forgiven their parents for the move. Leo did return to new york though they graduated from. Nyu this past spring advantage and you. Today's program was produced by diane wu and lena the people who put the show together today include them. Alan baker ben. Calhoun dana davis sean cole. Aviva cornfeld seth lynn stone. Nelson catherine remondo nadia raymond. Christopher switala matt tyranny nancy updike including winer are managing editor sarah abdurrahman our executive editor is manual. Berry especial thanks. Today to harrison nesbitt will yemen hillary apple men and maximo berryman cheese our website this american life dot org where you can stream archive of over seven hundred episodes for absolutely free again. This american life dot org. This american life is delivered to public radio stations by pr x the public radio exchange. Thanks to her boss hourglass you know. He says he's on vacation keeps coming into the studio making these tiny little edits our stories. I'm really sorry. i'm sorry. i'm sorry i'm here. I'm sorry i'm doing this. I'm sorry we'll be back next week. More stories. this american for me and software next week on the podcast of this american life can was in his sixties living in a nursing home when his friend. David started publishing his thoughts about music. Like this one about a lefty frizzell tune. Man take me back. Take me right back to the arizona. Desert the kind of music gets you so help me. It does at the moon a sucker singing like this girl's walking around the music connects us next week on the podcast new okla public radio station

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Episode 60 - Rishat eats soap

DUH:A Bangladeshi Podcast

1:15:56 hr | Last month

Episode 60 - Rishat eats soap

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Episode 3: 'Not A Bunch Of Jamokes'

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39:06 min | 3 years ago

Episode 3: 'Not A Bunch Of Jamokes'

"Lesson is supported by ADT. ADT presents surveillance service. Use your ADT app to monitor your cameras or video doorbell and check on your home from virtually anywhere, visit ADT dot com. Slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install your custom smart home backed by twenty four, seven protection and by Samuel Adams of all the beer Sam Adams has ever brewed Boston lager is their favourite Boston loggers distinctive balance of spicy, hops, sweet roasted malts and smooth finish is proof that there's nothing quite like the taste of an original Sam Adams, Boston lager, Boston beer company, Boston mass, Xaver responsibly. Produced by WB you are and the Boston Globe. Certain people really did take their jobs seriously, and then others really did not. This is ridiculous. And he would open up the doors of this museum for a psychedelic party for him in his random friends is incredible. What did you see when you when you watch the video? From the night before it was not a guard checking to make sure the doors were secure in law. It was somebody being let in after hours and being led in where the robbers went almost exactly twenty four hours there. Do you suspect the guards of collusion. Holiday dismount enough. Having this big league. This is an AAA bald on Pawtucket. This Fenway park. This is Martin lepto, a big league, criminal defense attorney with some strong opinions about the greatest art heist in history. Let me say this way the God, him robbery was so easy. Someone that wasn't a salami of burglars coming in and do it. They have musicians guiding millions and millions and millions of dollars with a paintings musicians that's like putting Dracula in charge of a blood Bank. It's so foolish and stupid that it's, it's it almost invited the place to be robbed at eighty. Six Aleppo is still practicing. He says, if there's one thing to know about him is that he's loyal to his wife of fifty one years to his three sons, even the to have given him some heartache into the veritable rogues gallery of clients, he's represented over the years. Men whose rap sheets span decades and crimes. There's a lot. There's a lot of case a lot of murders, a lot of organized crime cases. Lot of disorganized crime case armed robberies, drug deals, armored car, stick up jobs, you name it, but it's the crime that gave Boston's Isabella Stewart Gardner museum. The dubious distinction of being the scene of the single largest art theft in history that seems to hold special meaning for lepto framed reproductions of some of the stolen paintings. Hang in his law offices, including one. He's especially partial to the concert by Vermeer j. Just talked to you. So wonderful magnificent. I think if you can't appreciate. You know, from one of the great masters. What else is. If lepto takes particular interest in the Gardner heist, it isn't only because he feels the loss of what was stolen. It's also because he just might know who did it. No. Other defense attorney has represented more criminals who have been tied if only unofficially to the Gardner case seven and all they are men Lebo has long defended for other crimes. And while he won't comment on what they might have known about the plan to steal some of the most valuable in beloved treasures from Isabella Stewart, Gardner's collection, he will say this about whoever pulled off the robbery. Which was done by a bunch of. Tim oaks. Because this was a well organized. Well, organized thing fulfill pudding. Haven't found a thing by they lepto means the FBI and he's right in the twenty eight and a half years since the heist. They haven't found any of the stolen masterpieces. But one of the places the f. b. i. has been looking at the longest reveals a lot about who they think might be behind this still unsolved crime. It's a car repair shop called TRC auto electric, a place hard to beat for criminals per capita. And if many of the men suspected of planning or pulling off the Gardner heist have needed Martin Lepos services, it's because of other crimes they hatched at TRC. The question is, was the plan to rock isabela's to regarding museum. One of them. From WB are Boston and the Boston Globe. This is last seen. I'm Kelly horn, Jack, readily, go episode three, not a bunch of jokes. Pullover for a second to make sure they could go the wrong way. If one road to some of the suspects in the Isabella Stewart Gardner museum heist lead to the law offices of Martin lepto. Another leads to thirteen twenty five Dorchester avenue in the door, Chester neighborhood of Boston one day last summer, Kelly drove there with the garden museums, head of security, Anthony, Amora. Wait here. That's that's really. I, in my mind, it was a much a much greater thing. Okay. Picture a low slung brick and cinder block building, much longer than it is wide with corrugated metal doors. There's a spindly tree on the sidewalk out front. It's canopy too sparse to offer shade under a withering July son. There's everything you'd expect to find it in mechanics, and assortment of vehicles. Hoods up three open repair bays and spare tires in parts. Leaning against an exterior wall painted, an industrial Bauge. What there isn't is any suggestion whatsoever that the former TRC auto electric was in its heyday of front for a thriving hub of criminal activity. It's only about four miles from Isabel Stewart, gardening resume, but this place could not feel farther away true. It is a world away you go from this talion renaissance Palazzo is ability to regarding her built to resemble the one she left to stay in Venice. And here we are at a single story brick building. That's just a a real different look. Disagree place for crime headquarters, right people coming and going all day. It's perfect completely auspicious, too. I mean, I would have driven right by it. If if I didn't have you in the car to do. And the police knew it because the man who presided over t. r. c. auto electric wasn't underworld powerhouse with mafia ties and a long criminal record. His name was Carmelo Marino. He was involved in what a different Bank heist team is heavily involved in cocaine, dealing out of TSE. There wasn't any sort of crime. He didn't have his hand in Carmella release was a criminal. The way other people are in a religious order. He seemed called to it and he was devoted the same is true. Amaury says of the assorted low lives Merlene oh, had swirling around him at TRC studied crime, not the history of crime. They studied the newspapers and say, hey, d'you hear so. And so did such and such. It's the way baseball fanatics might follow the Red Sox. One thing I've learned doing this reporting is that they also meet each other in prisons chrome college. And released would be at Walpole and you'd have the most desirable cell. He would be in really well with the prison leadership because he was likeable and people listen to him, and I don't want to say it's like that scene in goodfellas where you know they go to jail, and that's a big party and people are cutting up garlic for their pasta sauce. But Malino made the best of it. In the late nineteen eighties Carmelo Merlene oes side hustle in car repair wasn't fooling anyone. He knew nothing about how to fix cars, but he had a real flair for turning cocaine, dealt out of carburetor boxes into millions of dollars in cash between nine hundred eighty nine and nineteen Ninety-one a stretch of time that includes the hit on the Gardner museum state and local police. In conjunction with the US attorney's office end the DA had t. r. c. auto electric under surveillance. Robertson Kelly was a fairly new assistant attorney general for Massachusetts. At the time he recalls being part of the massive effort to make sense of it. All we the wire cups on your see Carmelo, Molina's home, phone, all conversations I ever saw. We're all cryptic encoded. I mean, nouns nouns were off limits with this. They never said a name that never said a place or anything. And we had situations where we were convinced that an important meeting was going to take place given the discussion surrounding it, and then it turned out to be the knock you ac- no lunch thing with the an aunt. So it was very, very hard to really try to piece together what it is they were talking about and the foot traffic in and out of that was was utterly amazing. I mean, there was hundreds of people coming and going. There was a mini Grand Central station. So trying to piece all this together and understand exactly what was happening was exceedingly difficult, but not impossible by nine hundred ninety two to Kelly's and his. Team had amassed enough evidence to indict Carmelo Marino and members of his crew on cocaine trafficking charges. In response Malino pull the play straight from the gangster handbook. He offered authorities a quid pro quo, give me leniency and I'll give you a stolen painting our colleague from the Boston Globe, Steve Kirk Johnson says, when we're Lino made this offer, he also made himself a suspect in the Gardner heist. And that might have been. The point is terrific faint because I don't think a, he knew anything about the God is at the time and it really complicated his life, but it did absolutely get the attention of the state police in the assistant attorney generals including Kelly's. Now if you're on the hook for one bad crime, why on earth would you want to raise your hand and make yourself a suspect in a worst one? Why would Marlena wanna face that kind of heat who wouldn't want to be prince of the city. Find these paintings and you merge prints of the city. All of your sins are forgiven. You know, you come back and you have helped, you know, civilized society, the museum in the art, loving world, young and old to get these paintings back. This notion, this prince of the city ideal offers an insight into nearly every gardener heist suspect that we've investigated because like Carmella Malino each of these guys at one point or another shot his hand up and said, essentially, I did it, or I know who did it, or I know where the paintings are. The criminal mind is nothing if not an expiration, a one. Why wouldn't you want your name attached to the greatest score of all time. Carmelo Malino wasn't going to be crowned the prince of anything because the painting he dangled wasn't a Rembrandt's last from its frame. At the Gardner museum, it wasn't ever MIR or Manet or even a Degussa sketch. It was a portrait of George Washington that had been stolen in nineteen eighty-five from the Henry Wadsworth longfellow house in Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's estimated value at the time was five thousand dollars hardly the kind of bounty that doubled as a get out of jail free card relief. No, was going back to prison. Last seen is supported by ADT. ADT presents surveillance service. Surround yourself with peace of mind with video doorbells, an indoor and outdoor cameras from ADT security, visit ADT dot com. Slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install your custom smart home backed by twenty four, seven protection. Six years later in November nineteen. Ninety-seven Carmelo Marino out of prison. And back at the helm at TR siato electric had a new hire at the garage, a younger guy, he'd known for a long time both in and out of prison. Unlike Carmelo Lino though this guy really could fix cars. His name was Anthony Romano. He also answered to Tony. He looked up Carmelo admired him. And in fact, when Anthony was in prison, he ran into Carmelo and Carmelo took care of him and he cheese guy. He was respected in prison. Anything. He said, went with the other prisoners retired f. b. i. agent. David Nidal ski spent twenty one years at the bureau. He has the tidy haircut, and good posture you associate with g man. He has the warmth and easy. Laughter. You don't need hausky says Anthony. Ramana was not a thug just a guy who made bad choice. Choices. He says he was a central casting image of junkie, convict alarmingly thin, stringy hair, lots of tattoos at a time before everybody had one. And then as role would come up, you would get out new would be good for a while and then he'd get back in the drugs and then it'd be sticking up places again with a toy gun and he'd be back in prison. So that's basically pattern, never. Did he hurt anyone. I assess him as someone who really regretted the way things turned out for himself and he wanted to do something about it. I think he wanted to make a difference and I think he wanted to matter to somebody while still in prison. Anthony Ramana had reached out to nadeau ski at the FBI with tip that led to the recovery valuable manuscripts stolen from the John Quincy Adams library in Quincy Massachusetts Romano had even been right about who'd stolen them. So based on this, I determine Anthony was. Truthful and reliable with information. When he got out of prison, he asked meet with me wanted to talk about some information that had come his way concerning the gardener theft. This was only six years after the Gardner heist people still talked about it all the time. One of those people according to Ramono was Carmelo Marino. Eventually, it was clear that he was getting the impression that mill criminal Marino goes by the name mill knew where the paintings were or or thought he knew where they were or and somehow or other wanted to get a hold of the paintings. He Tony didn't think he was actually part of the robbery. But was working on getting the reward. By finding the paintings Nidal ski wasn't assigned to the Gardner case. He worked major crimes that fell under federal jurisdiction, like Bank robberies, and armored car jobs. So he pulled in special agent who was leading the FBI's Gardner investigation at the time Neil Cronin. I was basically introducing him to Anthony and letting Anthony tell him what he knew knew about Gardner or suspected, and not very long after that Tony told me that Carmelo Marino wanted to rub the Loomis Fargo VO facility in eastern for the Boston FBI. Tony Ramana was essentially a two for one informant his notes on the comings and goings and conversations. He observed inside TRC helped Nidal sqi work on his angle on Loomis, and they helped Cronin where his on the Gardner. We obtained Anthony romano's confidential informant reports or three. Oh two's between October nineteen Ninety-seven and November nineteen ninety eight. One name appears in them more than any other alongside Carmelo Marino's fat Richie. That's not the name is mother gave him. Fat Ritchie was born Richard tchaykovsky picture a sharply dressed boss, Doni missing all of his hair and some of his front teeth with an explicable Brooklyn accent and a career as a scam artist as vast as the man himself was large, which is not to say tall one day fat Richie called the Boston supervisor of the f. b. i. squad that oversaw the Gardner case that Richie didn't introduce himself, but he didn't have to actually said to the caller on the phone, he goes, are you Richie. Go ahead and identified himself, and he goes, there was a big pausing will some people do call me that Dallas case is fat. Ritchie told him in agent Cronin that he could get the paintings from Carmelo Lino and he says, but. Fuck him. You know if I can get five mil by getting the paintings from him, that's what I want out of this. He goes out, turn on him, so we just looked at each other. This is beautiful, and that's how Richie tchaykovsky. Aka fat Ritchie became the second confidential informant inside TRC auto electric. We obtained fat Ritchie's three, oh twos, and they are full of instances of Carmelo Malino promising to deliver the paintings in one dated January sixth nineteen ninety eight that Ritchie reported that Merlin oh, planned to return half of the stolen paintings and hold. The rest for security Marino had also reportedly said to Richie quote, I've got the news you've been waiting for. I have the Vermeer and the Rembrandt. For the FBI. It must have been shining moment. They had two informants ratting on to heists won the Loomis hit in the planning stages and the other. The Gardner robbery still casting its long shadow over the city. Just maybe the one that had yet to happen would yield clues or better still an arrest in the one that had yet to be solved. It was at this point that the feds offered Carmelo Malino a quid pro quo of their own a letter of immunity from prosecution in exchange for the stolen art. But he assured nearly goes, I don't have them. He goes, if I had him, I'd take that five million. I'd given to you. He goes, I'm just as interested in finding them as you are. I want to get the money. The feds didn't buy it. They numerously no kept that immunity letter from the US attorney's office taped under his desk at TRC. Why would he need it? If he was only in it for the reward, if only they had leverage some other crime, they could squeeze him on to make him talk about what he knew about the Gardner heist. Something like an armored Carvel robbery. He told Tony that he was nudges thinking of it. He was planning it. He was going on. Surveillances was sizing it up. He wanted to do this and the way he wants to do it was to put somebody on the inside who he could Troy. In other words, get somebody in there as an employee that's willing to give it up when when the time came that was his big plan. He wasn't going to go in there. Guns blazing. He wanted to go in there and have have it set up already that the place was going to fall. There's nothing like being jammed up on one whopping federal crime to make a bad guy sing about what he knows about another one. That was the hope anyway. Coming up. The second sting in a decade on t. r. c. auto electric, and it's all down to secret recordings made from inside and the knee romano's pants. Little. It's about three inches by four inches in an inch wide, then it's got wires coming out of it with microphones. And so I pull it out Tony, I'm gonna. Have you put this in a belly band in your back? Looked at it and he goes fucking thing. Looks like a refrigerator. Can't wear that. Doni. Don't worry about it. It's going to be okay. Less scene is supported by Samuel Adams. Here's founder, Jim cook. Each fall. People can't wait for us to brew are very first batch of Samuel Adams, October fest, and neither can we Sam Adams, October fest, everything you of about fall in one sip with the unique blend of caramel roasted malts it's sweet, smooth and delicious. Savor this season with the fall. Favorite Sam Adams, lactobacillus fest, Boston beer company, Boston mass saver responsibly. The entire time that Carmelo Molina was making claims about the Gardner paintings. He was also planning a strike on the Loomis Fargo. Armored car volt facility have out twenty three miles south of TRC in eastern Massachusetts. The Loomis heist presented just the chance the feds needed. They didn't have any proof that Marino really did have access to the Gardner paintings. So they sought the next best thing. Pressure him on a different crime once serious enough to make him give up whatever he knew about the Gardner. David Nidal ski had a come to Jesus moment with his informant. Anthony Romano. He'd have to do two things, introduce undercover FBI agent to pose as the inside guy at Loomis and wear a wire to catch Malino into accomplices planning the takedown. Conversations at that mellow and others have regarding the theft. So as we discussed year wearing the wire now, right? And he said, yeah, where and I said, you know that you're when this happens if it goes and it and you know, we make rests the you gotta testifying court, right? Yeah. I know you got to leave the state, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know. I said, okay. And is going to change your life drastically, right? Yeah, I know he goes. That's okay. I, I don't want. I'm sick at Boston anyway. I wanna go somewhere else. Anthony Maure says the stakes for Romano could not have been higher. He wore a wire. He wore a wire inside that place right there that we're looking at a police that professional ruthless vicious criminals in and out of every day. One misstep would have cost him his life on the spot. And he did it anyway because he wanted to redeem himself. It wasn't about getting out of any sort of sentence. He didn't have to told only all you need to do is bring up the subject that you got a guy in the insight, shut your mouth and let him do all the talking for all of his misgivings for all of how maddeningly terrifying must've been to walk into that garage with a recorder strapped to his body in the midst of the baddest of bad guys. Romano was smooth. He was a natural here. He is in one of the secret FBI recordings that we obtained floating the news to Marino that he found a guy on the inside at Loomis. We talked about that eastern thing. Yeah. Yeah. But. Really. I've known a long time. I got a guy. Number, I told you too big for me. For me now. Talking. Fifty nine dollars. And it was called, it was gold. I mean, Tony winning their gave. The cover story said, hey, remember I wanted to do that job at Loomis. And I come across a guy who actually works there. You've been asking me to get a guy in. There's a guy in there and I know he's willing to do it. He's willing to cooperate with us and mellow doesn't really ask any question. She just goes, wow, really, you'll see. But the thing is mellow. It's too big for me. I need your help and he goes, well, it's not to fucking big for me, and then he just goes on and on and on about how he's gonna planet, run it. He's gonna do this. He's going to do that. He's going to bring his crew in that crew had yet to be assembled. But one thing was certain they would be experienced and they would be discreet. Here's Merlene explaining the consequences of indiscretion to Ramono. Six weeks to screw. Everybody gets equal end, and that's it. Veterans have been around yard. All right. And say, listen, everybody's gonna make one pack discussion about anybody spends more money than they and they show the get a gift left. So as long as everybody knows that that's going to happen. You don't have to worry about them Murli. No says they're veterans, but anyone spends more than they should. They're gonna get clipped in his world. No one was above paying with his life Marino and his hand picked Louis hice crew foremen and all plus Tony Romano had one of their final meetings in a car in CVS parking lot across the street from bickford pancake house. It was January nineteen. Ninety nine Ramana was recording end transmitting the meeting to agents hiding nearby. So I was sitting in a car with a billion other agents listening to the conversation as it was taking place because if anything went wrong, we had to move in fast. But nothing went wrong and nobody suspected. Anything Neal. Conan had great ears, and he goes, do you remember? Did you hear him saying about the bringing anger date? No, I didn't. But that was on the tape that's considered a weapon of mass destruction and that doubles your time that live hand. Grenade alone would meet a minimum mandatory sentence of thirty years in prison. So he was the plan Malino and his crew would storm the facility take down there inside guy, and the other guard on duty emptied the vaults stuff. The loot in a stolen, Loomis armored car, and then race back to TR seat to divide up their spoils Marino expected. The take to be upwards of fifty million dollars and also says the talian the vaults that weekend was actually more like one hundred million. It was go time. The plan was for them to come together at TRC early in the morning. So we had one hundred million cops out there. We had the surveillance squad in the air. We had the surveillance on the ground. We had police everywhere, but everybody's hitting, I had Tony take his car market outside. TRC go in, turn the lights on, and then jump back into my current take off. So we took off. So mellow pulls up. He sees the twenties car playtime goes in, starts to go in, and he gets jumped by the swat team and taken down. The sting was going as planned after nabbing release. The swat team took out the next accomplice to arrive at TRC two down two to go, but where were they in adult ski remembers feeling that something wasn't right. And then they came around the block again and they drove by and didn't stop. And they came back to TRC and for whatever reason they decided this, this doesn't smell right, and they took off. And so the swat team decided to in the event that these guys were going to run that they were going to get on them, they drove up onto the sidewalk and started tearing down the sidewalk in this what vehicle collided with them. And this guy's jumped out smashed out the windows and dragged him out of the car and lock them up. Anthony is on the floor of my car, screaming and yelling, and and he's just, he's scared shitless. So so it all went down. And then when they were brought in, they realized that they were one man short. That one man was Anthony Ramana. Oh, after this, dang on TRC he entered the federal witness protection program and relocated to Florida. It was there in two thousand thirteen that he died of a brain aneurysm. He was fifty six years old. With Carmelo Malino and is Luma's heist accomplices in custody f. b. i. agents Nidal ski and Cronin wanted to know one thing. And we just talked each one individually and said, look. Urine some shit here. You know, if you know anything about the Gardner, now's the time to talk. Maybe there's something we can do to help you. The FBI seemed confident that the Loomis arrest would yield a break in the Gardner mystery. And it wasn't only because they had Carmelo Marino on tape. Talking about the stolen paintings, considerate, Marino's plan. He insisted upon having inside information about Loomis to ensure that the facility would fall without a fight. He had taken care to find out where all the security cameras were and how the alarm system worked. One of his accomplices disguises for the men to wear during the robbery. Maybe this is how seasoned criminals plan all their jobs, but these are details. You can't help, but associate with the Gardner heist where the thieves were disguises, took the museum with relative ease, where they seemed to know about the panic button and they knew not only about the security camera footage but where to find the. Tape. Other details ring a bell to Marino had originally wanted to hit the vault facility, the night of Super Bowl, Sunday in nineteen ninety nine. That's not exactly official holiday in Boston. The way Saint Patrick's Day is, but it might as well be. So when FBI agents douse key in Cronin offered to bargain in exchange for information about the Gardner heist. What did each of these men facing decades in prison say, oh, for of individually. Doulos the the new nothing don't bother me. I don't. I don't have anything for you. Knows it. That was it. But what about fat? Reggie's reports that Molina was going to return. The Gardner art turns out, fat Ritchie, put the con in confidential informant the whole time. He'd been telling the FBI that Marino is promising. The paintings fat Richie had been promising them to Merlin. Oh, Carmelo. Malino sentenced to forty seven years and six months in prison, died there in two thousand five at the age of seventy one. You'd think that if he'd had something to say about the Gardner art, he'd have set it killing you, five million bucks for his family anyway. And. A family? Yes, decent kids. So I'm sure we would wanna help them out. So after all that after the sting on the Louis facility, the stack of confidential informant reports that mentioned for MIR and Rembrandt and promises to return them. And the similarities between how the Gardner heist went down and how the Loomis hit was planned. Did David Nidal sqi believe the plot to rob the garden museum was hatched out of TRC auto electric, the former FBI agent who had been so expensive in his responses had this time. Just one thing to say. Anthony Moray who is still looking at the TRC gang isn't so sure there were capable this. Someone mentioned to you the the marine Lino gang, which was a pretty big gang out of TRC Dorchester, no one doubted their capability to do any sort of crime and they were doing all sorts of crimes to say that they could have pulled off the gardener. Yeah, they have done it. Absolutely Roberts Kelly's the former assistant attorney general who was listening in on the TRC gang during the period win. The Gardner museum was robbed. He wonders to, they would not have been surprising. They were very, very careful. These were very seasoned, very experienced operatives not going to go on the phone and say, okay, well, you don't forget. We got the Gardner tonight guys at seven and we'll do it. You know, that's unheard of. Maybe come Eller Malino hated the feds more than he hated the prospect of dying in prison. We can't know, but we can say with certainty is that Carmelo Malino was hardly the last best suspect to come out of TRC auto electric. Next time. Two more men who made TRC auto electric, their criminal Homebase one remains locked up for his role planning the Louis heist. The other is dead. I do believe that David Turner is gonna go down in history alongside the Boston strangler alongside Whitey Bulger as one of the most notorious criminals come out of Boston. Probably the best thing about rice Felder as loyal person ever wanna meet. Probably the worst thing was it was stoical psycho. Go to WBU are dot org slash last seem to read our cast of characters and learn more about the art featuring three in-depth videos and to go behind the scenes with last seeing, subscribe to our newsletter at globe dot com. Slash last seen last seen as a production of WB are and the Boston Globe are consulting producer, Steven, kurkin production and sound design by John Perotti special. Thanks to David Greene for waiting through hours of undercover tape into our production assistant Eve's. Zucca who transcribed those tapes and counted three hundred sixty six instances of the effort. Lawyer ready, just whatever he might just. Title. Additional production by Catherine, you're our digital team is Amy Gorell Tiffany, Campbell diago Fujiuwara Jesse Kosta and Elizabeth Gillis we had help from the Boston Globe Shelley Murphy, Brendan McCarthy and John Tamaki digital help from Heather Cyrus, Jason TUI and Ryan huddle editing by Jessica Alpert. Our executive producer is iris Adler. I'm senior producer and reporter Kelly Horan I'm senior reporter Jack Royer Ligo special. Thanks to artists. Sophie Calle who I used the title last seen at the Gardner museum in nineteen ninety one and who granted us permission to use it. If you have a tip theory or thought, call our tip line at six one seven nine two nine seven nine nine nine. That's six one. Seven nine two nine seven nine nine nine follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at last seen podcast, all one word. If you haven't already subscribe to our podcast in apple podcasts and leave us. A review. It helps people find the show. Funny part is all these kids were in the parking lot with their dad's going, play hockey. So the dads and they see this whole thing guys get pulled out of this car handcuffed and they all go. They word fist pump, and they were cool.

Carmelo Marino Gardner Boston TRC Carmella Malino FBI Isabella Stewart Gardner museu Loomis Tony Anthony Romano Boston Globe robbery David Nidal Carmelo Lino ADT Carmelo Molina TRC auto electric Anthony Samuel Adams Carmelo Merlene
January 8th: Brady Hull HR 2

NoCo Now ? 1310 KFKA

40:51 min | 9 months ago

January 8th: Brady Hull HR 2

"Brother colorado never stops neither do we. This is no co now presented by shanin agency. Here's tanner swint back. Everybody getting their day started off right on this friday just a couple more hours than it seems like a long ways away before that five o'clock bell but you're almost there. I promise this friday morning and when you are off the tavern say michael square is ready for you. Go and visit them over there. It's it's been a week. It's been a week time for a beer. It's time for beer. We all know it is just go over to the tavern at saint michel square pair. It with some of their delicious food. They've got indoor dining up to twenty five percent. Indoor dining. they've got the patio seating. It's heated out there It's sat out a number of times throwing a code. You're going to be set and ready to go. The tavern at saint michel square just because the holiday season is over. Normally this is when restaurants really see a decline anyways in the first month of january because people spent all their money in december. So keep that in mind. They're still getting hit hard. They're still having to pay their normal amount of rent. They're still having to pay all of those normal things that they usually do but now on top of it they just don't have one hundred percent capacity and we do go there. They've got great staff tipped him well. The tavern at saint michael's square Let's get into it our number two We got the poll question. Still up there. It's be honest with us. Is your christmas tree still up. Is it nine seven zero three five three thirteen ten nine seven zero three five. Three thirteen techs. That k of k texan nine seven zero four seven eight one three zero one nine seven zero four seven eight one. Three zero one text. Kfi that number and you'll be subscribed ready to go Let's get into sports. Shall we the talked about it yesterday. Four or four games four basketball games for colorado teams last night. Let's start with the good because there was the good. The bad and the ugly all took place last night that good the colorado buffaloes how about those buffalo's beat number seventeen ranked oregon ducks seventy nine to seventy two mckinley. Right was downright special in this one. Twenty one point. He sealed the game late with twenty seven seconds left and colorado holds off number seventeen oregon with a seventy nine seventy two win. This was a game that i thought was thought it was about over and then oregon made a little bit of iran. And the good thing for me watching this team if you're a colorado fan you look back at what happened last year when something like this would have taken place. You probably would have squandered it remember when they went on that terrible terrible streak of just losing everything they probably would have squandered it but this year this team had like what mckinley right can do. He ended up with again. Twenty one points sealed. This saying it's a big time win for us with this win. You'd have to expect the colorado. Buffaloes see you should move in to the top twenty five. They sit to into conference play. We talked about how important of a win. This would be if they could get it because they had the conference play. Ucla who they lost to by three just last week is sitting at eight and two four own conference play. So all of these games are vitally important and they pull out a big one right there. Colorado big man. Evan batty says. I'm in awe of mckinley right on the court. He had twelve points and ten rebounds as well. I'm in awe. But i'm in the i'm in the play as it's being ran so it's kind of special watch in being while you're in the action. Mckinley right actually took a pretty good fall early on in this one. He fell and hit his head on a chair. On the underside. Courtside chair left a big nod on the back of his neck but all he did was going. Put up twenty one points and lead the colorado buffaloes to a win seventy nine seventy two over number seventeen oregon i think think-i see colorado start role and even get in to that top twenty five. Let's shift gears. Move up a little bit to some more good colorado state because the rams they get the win erased a thirteen point second half deficit to beat. Unlv kevin lytle my man with the story here out of the colorado and they are just starting to become the comeback kids. Unlv really shouldn't be that good of a team this year. I don't know if we will continue to see them play like they did last night. But colorado state falls behind again. I feel like we've said this won't timer to. They come back in a race. That thirteen point deficit and in kevin lytle mentions it may not have been as dramatic as the twenty six point comeback against san diego state. But the seventy four seventy one win over. Unlv at moby arena is as important in. Its own way david. Roddy as a stevens kindle more they did get kindle more back in the lineup And they were able to to handle what the the best rebels could have. The rebels were one in five coming in her. Excuse me wanna four going into that game. Isaiah stevens twenty five points and pair of free throws with seven seconds. Left rallied to win this one. Seventy four seventy one. I mentioned david roddy. He at eighteen points and scored the go-ahead basket with just twenty six seconds left to push colorado state to seven and two on the year. Cs you with that seven to two record sitting third in the mountain west conference standings they sit behind a us state and boise state who are nine and one eight and three respect irrespectively and both five in the Conference play. so what's next for the rams. They've got another one against unlv on saturday. Just tomorrow That's a two o'clock tip off there. So the rams are legit. I mean it seems like the clear answer is yes but they got to quit coming back and having to come back from those big deficits but they do as kevin lytle mentions in historian the colorado. And they've got that swagger in those moments they play like they expect to find a way to win weird because they're so young that shouldn't be the case they should do normally young teams shrink in those different moments but they have not As niko medved says you see that confidence in your players. That's everything those guys have that swagger. They never quit. They have confidence that they're in it until the end they proven it time and time again that that is the absolute truth about this team and again they play tomorrow against. Unlv the rebels again Trying to take sweep of that. That's one that they do need to win to continue to keep pace with others Let's move up. Let's jump up classification and to the nba. What was going on in the association last night. Well you had a good battle really between the dallas mavericks and the denver nuggets one that denver for the first half looked really good And then luca danni kind of woke up in the second half he goes off in this one for thirty eight points And the the dallas mavericks beat the denver nuggets in overtime. It was really Really surprised that it even went into overtime. Nikola yoka tend to head a game. Tying buzzer beater at the end of the fourth. Quarter to tie it at one zero nine to send it into overtime but then the dallas mavericks just outscore. The denver nuggets won by seven fifteen eight in overtime period. Again they win. One twenty four to one seventeen. Yokich scored twenty of his thirty eight points after halftime and grabbed eleven rebounds. Four denver. jamal. Murray had twenty one points and nine assists but as i'm sure you'll hear brady hole when he joins us to talk more about this game. Hill mentioned it. Jamal murray just kind of fell apart where he go. And that's the problem is that we've seen this a multitude of times where he just just shrinks in the moment and that's that's can't keep happening Four for the denver nuggets so they lose that one one twenty four to one seventeen. They fall to three and five on the air. They're scheduled to play the philadelphia. Seventy sixers on saturday with the sixers did have a positive covid nineteen test. So will that happen. We're not sure. Seth curry was the one who tested positive. Let's talk some baseball here. Sad news breaking news here hall of fame los angeles dodgers manager. Tommy lasorda has passed away at the age of nine thirty three. The team announced this morning. He suffered a sudden cardiopulmonary arrested home thursday night and was taken to the hospital where he was pronounced dead less than an hour later. Managed the dodgers from nineteen seventy six to nineteen ninety-six. Winning two world series. Titles four national league pennants. An eight division crowns. He was named manager of the year twice in one. One thousand five hundred and ninety nine career games again tommy. Lasorda was ninety three years old passing away this morning. Sad news there. But tommy lasorda was a legend of baseball and we'll be will be very much missed by everybody in the baseball community. That'll do it for the sports segment. Obviously i mentioned. Unc you talked about that and create depth with jason alvin. So don't need to rehash the pain. That was that loss for the unc unc bears last night. Let's take a break when we come back on the other side. We haven't got a chance to get some national news going on including the breaking news. That just broke a couple couple of minutes ago that that president donald trump will not be attending the inauguration of president-elect joe biden. We'll discuss on the other side nocona presented by audi jeanine agencies on northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi k northern. Colorado's voice is thirteen. Ten k of k. Tanner will be back after the break cone. Now weekdays at four northern colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi k ten twenty one time on this friday morning. Thanks for being with us here. No canal presented by the chain nine agencies. We are of course as we always are. Live from the auto collision specialist studios. In tanner swint ryan kelly. Doing the production work as always Let's get to national news coming out this out of the The associated press pelosi s top general about curbing trump's military power house speaker. Nancy pelosi's had friday. She had spoke to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff about preventing president donald trump initiating military actions or a nuclear strike. This is what i was hoping wasn't gonna come out of this. Because president trump has been sitting for four years as president and guess how many wars were started in those four years. That's right ryan held up big fat zero. So what makes nancy pelosi. Think that in the next week what are we. We're on january eighth in the next twelve days. What makes her think that's all of a sudden going to change. Policy said in a statement to colleagues that she spoke with general mark milley to discuss available precautions from preventing an unstable president from initiating male military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering nuclear strike. She said the situation of quote. This unhinged president could not be more dangerous. This this this is the rhetoric. This is what i'm talking about on both sides. You're doing nothing more here than just continuing to trample on a man that you've been doing this to for four years. You can disagree with them. You can be excited that your candidate one which good for you but this just takes over that that edge and i. I don't understand it. Blows in chuck schumer have called on vice president. Mike pence and the cabinet to invoke the twenty fifth amendment to force trump from office. It's a process for moving the president and installing the vice president to take over. Its twelve days. Why waste anybody's time money and resources on it. Twelve days joe biden is going to be inaugurated which again that came out this morning that the donald trump will not attend that. That's got to be the first time. I i need to do some research on that ryan because you may be looked at up. See what you can find when the last time. The sitting president did not attend an inauguration for the new president cannot believe it's happened very often but regardless of who you voted for. Do you blame the man. What whether you agree with him or not. He has been drug through the mud. Like no other president before. And they're doing it still on his last twelve days. Dump trump got underneath the skin of these lifelong politicians so badly that in his last twelve days they still are trying to call him an unhinged president. You can disagree with. I disagreed with how you handled the story of the capital. This is just unfair and unjust. Zero war started in the last four years. Did you find. Iran was last time. This happened so it was one hundred fifty two years ago It was andrew johnson and he did not attend ulysses s. Grant's one hundred and fifty two years ago was the last time that this didn't happen. I saw somebody joking the other day saying i don't know about you but i'm real tired of living through these historical events. I can't say i. I'm for off. There's something to be said about having some sense of normalcy ido. I do not blame president. Donald trump for not going to this. I don't he was elected based on based on not being the politician right. He was elected based on being a newcomer drain. The swamp and this. This tagline has agenda. What he put into place rallied so many people and it rattled the cages of politicians. Not a single drop of evidence was proven that russia colluded the impeachment. Trials were the biggest scam that we've seen now what happened. The other day. I get tempers are high that understandable. But don't call a man who has not started a war in his four years. Don't call him unhinged and and don't try and say that you have evidence that you believe he would do something like that unless the twelve days. That rhetoric is dangerous. Nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are just as much to blame for what happened at the capitol as donald trump is in my opinion because they their rhetoric in the rhetoric in this country about how we discuss and talk to each other. It's it's terrible. It's awful and that doesn't make things any better. What she's doing right now. it does it. It makes things a lot worse so we move on president. Trump's got twelve days left the impeachment process. What's it worth. You're gonna cut president short by twelve twelve days or do they want to do it just because they can finally say we impeach from because he bugs them that much. I think that's honest questions. And after being s more sad news talking about the capital siege The police officers There was a police officer who passed away over the evening due to injuries from the capital. Siege A police officer has died from injuries. Suffered as that trump supporters stormed the capital It's forcing hand questions about the defeated presidents remaining days. We just talked about that The us capitol police said in a statement that officer. Brian de sick. Nick was injured while physically engaging with protesters during the wednesday ride. He is the fifth person to die because of the capital protests and violence drink struggling at the capitol signet who is a forty two year. Old was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher. To law enforcement officials said the officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to the associated press on condition of anonymity On a non a minute So that's very sad news. That came out of this. I think the number of people arrested has moved up into the eighties. Now and you're going to continue to see that climb But this just further reinstates that. What happened on wednesday was horrific. It was something that again. I point to and say what do our enemies think about us. You know when we step in if there's a legit Country who is having problems with their their democracy. You know they're gonna look at us and say what are you doing. You can't even have your own under control. Let alone the fact of saying so they just a couple of hundred of and there's a picture showing you know eighty year old women in the us capital. You're telling me that our enemies foreign and a. rod that are looking at that and saying oh that might be a little easier than we thought. This capital siege raises security questions for biden inaugur inauguration. I don't know why wouldn't The scrutiny over the security at the upcoming inauguration ceremony for president elect joe biden which already has been reshaped by the pandemic and president trump's decision not to attend but is president-elect kamala harris will take the oath of office from the capital's west front one of the occasions where a mob police and stormed the building. Those those scenes are still very surreal looking at that. They also scaled and occupy the scaffolding and bleachers in place for the ceremonies. So they're already. They were getting ready for that plans for the january twentieth inauguration. We're already sa- scaled back because of the coronavirus but the brazen attack raises new questions about preparedness for that event that welcomes the new administration after a bitter election again. Working out the associated press yesterday was sad day and solemn day for our country said senator roy blunt and amy klobuchar from minnesota the outrageous attack on the capital however will not stop us from affirming to americans and the world that our democracy endures. The great american tradition of any inaugural ceremony has occurred in times of peace in times of turmoil in times of prosperity and in times of adversity they continued. We will be swearing in president-elect biden. These are all questions that instantly. I thought of as well what does this. What does this mean coming up. What does it mean for the inauguration in again dump trump deciding not to attend. I don't think that's really a big a big surprise that he's not coming but why why the why the brazen and the aggressive attack to try and get him out of office twelve days left it just for the thing that lacks. The most from a lot of politicians seems to be common sense. Why put the time and effort into something for twelve damn days. This president started zero wars. So for nancy pelosi to be saying that she's completely unfounded. That rhetoric needs to change. You know hearing people talk saying hearing these politicians talk saying that they do have friends across the aisle that narrative needs to be pushed more. Because i'm guilty of it when i think of congress. I think that there are people you know. The right does their own thing at launch. I mean they of their own tables right. It's it's the the different clicks in high school. That's how i view it. It's hard for me to fathom. Somebody like ted cruz. Sitting down with kamala harris in having a peaceful lunch like talking about something other than their fundamental disagreements. That's hard because we don't see that side we see the side of them where they're in front of the camera and they're using this rhetoric to gain votes and their political agenda is on. That's got to stop the other. Narrative needs to be shown. The other side has to be shown with that being said too. I think the eyes of many in the minds of many are starting to shift to say is two party system. The best that questions been thrown out there but one thing is for sure for both parties if it stays at this two party system no longer can we excess Except the worst of two evils you know and that's how a lot of people felt this last election. They voted because well he was slightly better than other. And you see people all over the place that will not get into politics and do you playing them. You've got the private sector where you're gonna make more money. You get your own to make your own decisions. You don't answer to anybody when it comes to politics and politicians. They're not paid enough based on what they're actually paid for their job. Now i know there's lobbyists and all these other things that they can make their money and get set up on but it's a mess and we have but we have to find a way as a country to get better candidate in there. It has to change. The rhetoric has to change my thoughts on what was a a difficult week for and A controversial one to say the least ten thirty three the time now when we come on the other side. We're going to switch gears a little bit. That's enough political talk. I think we've all heard enough of it so far this week. I'm sure we'll continue to watch going forward. See what news breaks. But we're going to switch back brady hole in the whole of the whole show will join us. He is a big time denver. Nuggets guy he talks to talk to the coaches. He talks to the insiders. I'm going to ask him point blank. Is it time to worry if you're a denver nuggets fan. We'll talk about that on the other side. Noko now present about the jeanine agencies want to be part of the conversation nine seven zero three five three thirteen ten or the kfc tax text kfi to nine seven zero four seven eight. Thirteen zero one. Nine seven zero four seven eight one. Three zero one. You'll be ready to go and text and ten thirty four the time. Let's get to the bottom of the hour news and weather center here mornings with kale weekdays. Six to nine and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten kfi k. A. ten thirty nine the time. Welcome back into the auto special studios. I m tanner. Schwendt rank killing the production work. Glad to be with you here on a friday just a couple of minutes remaining We'll get to the greeley cop blog mech segment. That's always one of my favorite segments. So we'll get into see who did what and how did they do it wrong. And how dom were they. Were all the questions that will answer next joining us now. Host of the whole show in the denver nuggets expert joining us. We'll use the term lightly but we'll throw it over there brady hall. Thanks for joining us. Fight comey expert on some things. I'm sure you're going to be talking extensively about the night of basketball that we had in colorado. It really was the good the bad and the ugly right crazy. I mean a lot of different games. All four the teams we kind of focus on up here with cu colorado state unc and the nuggets mixed. Bag abc's comes away with the win win us. You gets their win It hasn't played since one thousand nine forty seven. That's actually accurate. Factually accurate and they lost to the montana state team that beat unc last night. So i mean. I don't know what that tells you but i don't know that you know he's great. Maybe they took thirty games. Game plan for issue maybe and then unc loses and of course The nuggets lose in overtime. Let's talk about this nuggets game. You know that first quarter i think was about the best that you see of. The denver nuggets. Jamal murray is hitting yokich is doing his thing. He got an early foul trouble. But that first quarter and that first half was really good nuggets basketball. Yeah you're seeing. You have to have the one two combo now. This is not a league. We're just one guy can can do it anymore. You gotta have at least two guys so in the first half your c. n. But the cracks keep showing rearing their ugly head for this nuggets team in the second half of ballgames or in the second quarter third quarter but in the fourth he had hero ball with joker but nobody else was really there. So i mean i like what i'm saying. What you michael green. He kind of is replacing. The grant side of things. I suppose but you have some issues. There's some concerns today. Three and five now at the nuggets fall to nickel. Yokich obviously off to a hot start. you'd rather yokich put up a ungodly numbers twenty of his points. Come in the fourth quarter. You'd rather stay to that twenty four point range and have some help and have them win games. I think really You know he's had this incredible start. But it's not translating the winds and that's the scary part in four assists last night. But it wasn't because he wasn't passing you just guys that aren't scoring. I mean that's that's a. That's a big deal here. I mean you scored one hundred seventeen points. It's not the end of the day into the world. Defense is awful. It is first quarter was not bad mike malone had the shortest press conference in the history of his press conference last night he was mad at everything. We don't have answers on a lot of things with this very frustrating composite who has had really good games. last was nowhere to be seen. Great ball defense to right. But you're bureau allowing the mavericks to dictate your lineup. He was asked why did not play and he said well because the mavericks went big. I thought the old adage was. We're not gonna worry about what they do. We were about what we do. So he's letting their lineup dictates so if you go small does that mean you're not gonna play the guys i don't know but it's a it's curious to see what's going to happen but me. Mike malone was certainly frustrated. One of his more negative press conferences. I yeah it is rightfully so and i because that was a game that you know chris. Tops thing is still out for the mavericks. Luca danni which is going to be special no matter what that felt like a game for the majority of it that they they should have one. And luca's hurt. I mean she kept grabbing his ankle throughout the night. He was banged up. He's thought thirty eight points. That's that's a tough spot man. I mean it was a very frustrating way to in that game. It was exciting to watch. I know i harp on this a lot on my show but jamal murray. That's where i was going next to. You have to be charles. Barkley said last night on the broadcast. They hey you showed us one thing in the bubble and you showed us another thing here. Where are you on a consistent basis. He gets mad when reporters asked that question. But i mean he had. He had some nice points last night. But that was all in the first time when you need it in the mouth. I think it was twenty. One points nine assists normal. You look at it and say okay. That's pretty nice night for murray but they needed more and they needed it. Spread out not just all in that first quarter. Yeah well and you saw you saw the start. Standstill late in the fourth and then overtime joker gets the ball and guys aren't moving around. This is why faulk who can basel so good. He understands the movement side of it will barton tries to play isolation ball. Jamal murray just kind of looks like he's not ready to win. I mean who did the ball go to at the end of regulation. There was no no no doubt it was going into okay. Yeah and as great as nicole yokich is you. He has to rely on these other people to be cutting and moving. And that's how he plays his best basketball. He's not going to be that. Lebron james site where he just got james harden those players where he can take either the three point back you down to go to the rim. I mean he's got to have other people moving for him to play. His best basketball is moving a lot more this year. I mean he took it upon himself. I mean you're seeing them start to back down earlier he'll get the ball to free throw line extended it back down so you are seeing joker. Take it upon himself. No he's not gonna go between the legs behind the back and do lebron james type stuff but he is. I think he's looking around saying if i'm not going to have help i have to do it myself. And that's a new joker that we haven't seen last year. He was very much content. Just all right. i guess. We'll die by bypassing. But no he's he needs help. I mean that's the bottom line. That will be good news for the nuggets when they get if they get into the playoffs when they get into the playoffs that new and improved yokich. I think we'll be fantastic to see you mentioned. There's a lot of things that we don't know about the the key one. The main one right now is michael porter. Jr. and his availability trusted nuggets reporters before that game were saying. He was cleared to play shortly after that report came out. We hear that. He's out for ten games. Mike malone will not speak on it he will not talk about michael porter jr. when asked. He said he's not here. So i'm not talking about and we'll talk about when he gets here. So what happened. Does he have covid. I mean with this age. People are pretty quick to tell us when players have covid so it's clearly not that michael porter jr. in the bubble did say that he believed this whole covert thing was away for the government to control society. I don't care what side of the year on. Whatever that's what is that going on again is not wearing his mask. Is he going out. I guess my frustration with all of this is mike malone been preaching covert series. Where your mask. Soon as mike willow needs to order out an to dish out an order to his team he pulls that mask down and screams. The mask is there to protect spit coming out of your mouth and when you scream and take it down and then put it back up. When you're quiet doesn't make any sense kind of makes you look like a hypocrite right. It does and the other thing that that comes along with your. You're the leader of the team. You're the head coach. You're the one at the end of the day has to answer for this michael porter. Jr. can score some points in clutch times have been the difference last night. Where is he in. You've got to answer that. So i know a lot of people haven't really criticized mike malone and there hasn't been a ton to criticize so far but how he's handling this is imperative. Especially if you think that michael porter jr. is going to be a building block for the going forward if that's going to ruin the relationship in mp jaywalks when his contract is up you got to point back to this or you have to trade him now. If you don't think he and mike malone can get along you have to get an asset but we saw at the beginning of the season. This guy is starting to get into that mode where he scorned. Mid twenties and thirties is defense still sucks but so does everybody in the nuggets awful so might as well put a great offensive player in and outscore because gary harris is defense is average now. And he's not. I mean he had night's game last night but you're not gonna count on that so one of your best players as far as the offense goes we won't we can't even get an answer as to why he's not on the floor. We were told he was going to play now. It's ten days so what's going on with brady whole the whole show about the denver nuggets soft a three and five a little bit of a slow start and Last night it was a game that you thought that they probably should've had in the bag They ended up losing it. Yokich show of course hits the buzzer beater at the end to force overtime But just not enough firepower. It looked like and we'll barton is kind of become a liability at least in my opinion but What what have you seen from. We'll barton and that's a role. That michael porter jr. gets more minutes when when wills when wills a little off he's a he's kind of the same player that he's been over the past five years you know i mean he's going to give you great moments and he's gonna he's gonna make you scratch your head last night. He tries to get to get a rebound and he tries to go hero ball and take three guys and that was the proves costly He can hit some key shots at twenty points. The other night against minnesota. But no. that's that's a bench guy. he's not a starter in this league. Not the stage talk with the whole of the whole show denver nuggets. So do you think they get a panic button hitting time yet or do you. Wait and see how they respond. They're supposed to play saturday. Covid nineteen concerns out and seth curry a mpg jays. Al but they're still playing. It all depends on the contact tracing rate So it'll depend on that but Is it is it. Time to hit the panic button. How how long are we going to ask. is jamal. murray going to be consistent. How long does this go on. Because he signed a massive contract. He's with this team for like five more years when he gets it right. You don't have to panic. But he is. In his history of his career he has been very inconsistent Michael porter jr. mike malone. Is there fracture there. The if that's there's a fracture there and you don't think you can repair it then. It's probably a little bit of panic. Time the only thing i will say is the lakers lost last night. They have three losses. The nuggets have five. So you're looking at the best in the west and the nuggets your two games out so the mavericks are supposed to be really with or without kristaps. So they're supposed to be better So i will say that. Nobody's really pulling away just yet. So that's the only thing that you can point to the buys you some time. Yeah and there's other teams that are going through some growing pains to because this is a weird year to only two months off. It is a strange shortened season. Two in a lot that goes into it but You know i agree with you. I don't think it's necessarily time to hit the panic button yet but Maybe maybe closing in on their in the western conference like you'd mentioned the the best team in the western conference. The phoenix suns six and two. That's that's spall and they've turned this thing around man. I mean it's they're they're they're good team brady whole the whole show coming up twelve to. What do you got on tap today. A lot about this. We'll be getting into the nuggets. We're going to preview the nfl. Weekend coming up Also our our poll question today is what should the broncos do with von miller. I mean do you want to see this guy finished his career in denver or does it matter t that much might not have that much left in the can looking forward to a twelve to to the whole show coming here. Brady thank you so much. Thanks man all right. We'll be back on the they said. Let's get to the greeley cop log this going to be fun. Don't go to our snow cone presented by the jeanine agencies on northern colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi it's a party. Northern colorado's force thirteen kfi k a block party wednesdays from four ten pm et. Welcome in no-go now greeley cop blog time with my favorite gotta go out trevor. Read the tribune throwing this together at one thirty eight am december twenty third a collar on the twenty eight one hundred block. Twenty fifth street reported a man who appeared intoxicated who into the collars door and said he was dropping off a woman who wanted to be dropped off there. The woman appeared sober me. December twenty four five forty five pm collar walking on sixth avenue from twenty street on his way to a marijuana dispensary. Contacted police about a fraud case. He said an fbi agent or officer was contacting him on facebook about a lottery that he had one police informed him. With a high probability it was a scam hesitant to accept the feedback and disconnected back christmas day. Twelve pm caller sitting at a fast food restaurant reported what appeared to be a door that was broken into liquor store on tenth street near eighth f on closer inspection. He realized it was just glitter. Amp december twenty seven twelve pm. Please just wanted to a hotel in the seven. Hundred block of eighth street were found in handcuffs attached to a bathroom door. The last occupant of the room advised they belonged to her ex husband wanting to number twenty eight three pm. Police responded to a home in the one hundred block of north fifty. First avenue recall reported finding a snake in a pump in the basement. It was dead later that afternoon. December twenty eighth police responded to seventh avenue where a caller reported a neighbor dog. It was constantly getting out. The caller said the dog is an aggressive but it tries to make trouble with the other colleagues that is really cop log for the week of december. twenty third. So i i wouldn't. I wouldn't assume that a mini snakes would be out right now and slither around. But you never know. That's got to call the cops when you see it coming up later. Today we do have the power trip coming up next they will be talking with michelle vance. Executive director of the windsor chamber of commerce. Make that makes you check that eleven to twelve twelve to the whole show more basketball talk from brady and company then this evening. We got our first basketball coverage. It's just a scrimmage club scrimmage taking place kirk johnson. We'll be on the call. Pre game show starting at six o'clock tonight. Make sure you don't miss that. Of course streaming availability as well visit thirteen ten. Kfi am dot com for more information. If you wanna watch the broadcast tonight. You'll get the audio and the visual effect of what goes into that coming up. Next week we will have starting on monday. Kris van arranger reporting for nine news We're gonna have a lot of talk about might have to take that one to segments. I'm not sure cove. Nineteen the dial dashboard as well as everything. Going on. leading. Up to the inauguration of joe biden. We'll talk about that map. Makers we'll get your weather forecasts setup for next weekend So busy week. Hey one week down two hours every single day. Nine eleven follow along on facebook noko now. We'll put posting our poll questions up there every single day. And if you haven't like me taking on your christmas tree get it on this weekend. There's not a whole lot else to do rewards yourself. have yourself a drink and take down the christmas tree. Throw up some some sports on the tube listening as we have a. unc bears basketball broadcasts. Tomorrow that will just about do it for us Here for noko now We'll be back at it on a monday. That for us know co now presented by the jeanine agencies on northern colorado voice. Thirteen ten kfi.

colorado denver nuggets saint michel square tanner swint kevin lytle nuggets Jamal murray mckinley Donald trump Yokich Unlv dallas mavericks nancy pelosi mike malone rams colorado buffaloes yokich Tommy lasorda shanin michael square
Fat-Bike Radio All-Star Jam with Special Guest Jay Petervary and music by Ex Uncle

Fat-bike Radio

1:07:01 hr | 1 year ago

Fat-Bike Radio All-Star Jam with Special Guest Jay Petervary and music by Ex Uncle

"And we're right on right on. Thanks for the boys. Welcome to the Illinois Resort and Convention Center Hotel Here in Zion Illinois fatter by the Lake Live podcasting it is this got Gomez to my left their homes for going down at the end of the table made that big drive down from Milwaukee. Oh yes I was to master. 'cause like South says like downhill so yeah just makes sense. So how many better by the lakes are we had Mr Chris. Probably an eight nine eight or nine track in two thousand and twelve. Perhaps I won somewhere that makes sense in the chronology of of the early days. Yeah and they kept getting bigger and bigger and here we are kicking off. podcasting is a music started off with two people. And now look what you got. Yeah yeah so federal by the Lake weekend retreat sponsored by surly bikes. We gotta get that plug in their plug in their contractual obligation in conjunction with the huge jazz at the bike series. Right on Yeah I. I predict three hundred people tomorrow. It's going to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA snick of fresh snow lightly lightly just sprinkled with strontium ninety ninety and some some gamma radiation maybe just site order of his bestest sand. Do they have a disclaimer about about the dust in the air. No you guys all look pretty healthy no more power plant. I have to worry about. Just the remains. Yeah just the spent fuel rods sittings and casts. ooh Look Gravel. Live better on the stone almost running over the bartender. Nice job there Shannon and tim she gets a good on the DANCEFLOOR. If only there was video to go with this we need some derby music. They're going going around in a counter clockwise Derby Sir Towards the big winner Shannon Chat West like thumper wheels are dirt dirt component on an straight shit. I couldn't I couldn't multitask. I was about to get out there with a chair to close it up like hey so jake spent a long time so you and I shared the same set of headphones airwaves. Well the fun girl. Yeah come on yeah funder. This is the fourth of the series of the fund euros. I TOOK A to Chirp of the way back machine and looked back at all those leading up to this. Because you know I'm a nervous mess before the little sippy Putin in move us one. Oh that's right. Yeah that's Eh new sweat could pull this together plus the hundreds show. Yeah hundreds show. I looked at that picture too and was like Oh yeah you some good stuff. AP LEMAIRE you're wrong L. Raw. Who Yeah and man I love Bernie Sanders campaign a couple of times through read that night? A bucket ball patch Siegel Derby being inside. Go just like really out my front. Wheel and bucket ball spinner could not ryerson. He'll be on the show later. He took me out. But that's bucket bomb. If you don't like pavement and SCABS ABS- sport for you. Yeah I got a crash course where it was a point of okay. I'm sober. I get the theory completely on this and we're running afoul of the Wifi here again at the Illinois resort and Convention Center. We got nothing. So I'm going to call Mr Peter Mary and let him off the hook and do a quick interview with him and get it into the show in a couple of days all right if you come down to the Illinois Resort Convention Center. You'RE GONNA to be phone free for the most part. The WIFI Wifi the phone still that works but all right let me give them a call so we don't let them sit out there waiting for nothing all right well. They're getting him on the phone. We're GONNA play all the new some it's called awake and dreaming and it goes like this there. Ah Take a so much monster. uh-huh yeah uh-huh Right on right on you guys are jamming. What's that awake and dreaming all right? Well we just got off the phone with Mr Peter Very even though. y'All can't hear them. We're going to interview them later in the week. And get Mr Daisy here to plug that right into the show going to be just like Budha and Same thing with Amelia. She's also very understanding. Technologies is letting us down but That doesn't mean we don't have a show so imagine right there. We'll get them running away going on a hand basket right here. Let's do a sock toss. Oh Yeah Yeah. We're with throwing stuff out to the crowd by we throw we days the royal we've made royal. So what are you gonNA. It's time to pull this show right Outta here as well so very I will catch them later in the week and we'll we'll have him on the show doing ultra say. Hey that was great. To hear from Jay. Wasn't it was awesome. Thanks thanks very much for being on the show Jay. Yeah you know he is such a character actor. That's a girl so we're GonNa do this thing where we're going to give away the Pugsley World Championship. So thank you jess ray smile. which right three hundred people? Close course full-contact Razor Blades motocross. And that's not anybody's inner class citizen class and is involved. Oh yeah that's it was. It was I listed as short fun for the citizen and fast and fun enver the elite. I think there's something called the adventure camp or something it points for it and I saw this. I saw this at the last race. If you do that part of the race which takes like five minutes you have to pull off in the up to do some sort of trick or whatever they had pin the tail on the Sam Slash. I think or something that sounds like a bonus check one at the river was twenty four. There you go so if you do that they pick a person in randomness like huge king of the day you know. That's that's my plan for the if I could put a plug it in for the danger no heck back. Yeah you can't plug it on this show. What can you bug it on? So we're going to interview that person tomorrow. Amelia she's going to be around on tomorrow so we'll get to talk to her on the danger dome and Shannon. WHO's out in the crowd or yet there is he's he's going to be on the show right on tomorrow? And then after that. Though there's there's steeped in mystery and I made a hash tag of Skid Circus Skid Circus contest. I don't know what it what it was but it was something that was supposed to be. Clever and Aaron. Joe Joe Meyer from surly is going to be here and you're GonNa he's GonNa give away a couple of sets a wheels and there's going to be stuck burning. Skids can't believe how much stuff's getting didn't give away including over there. Yeah that's kind of what I'm getting to. You're GONNA interview spinner. We're going to ask him about that later. Yeah there's many different layers at the league weekend retreat spots that. It's it's almost like a marathon. You should get like twenty two twenty three whatever it takes sticker for participating in every one of the events participant or I like or merit badge. Judge all right so after after that Sunday. What do we Chris I? What are we doing on Sunday? So Sunday is the traditional Zion's sake Larry Taco ride February are yeah tacos tacos by our neighbor lows trace Vermont US and they're pretty fabulous so we basically eat tacos we ride all the trails and Illinois beach each State Park and then we come back and eat more tacos and drinks and beer. That's the agenda people. It's a complete weekend of fat bike fun and are we interested the trails that if there's snow deep enough snow that you're going to get to groom. That is the plan if we do ever get deep enough snow to groom. They've been pretty open to US grooming down here now. So we've kind of temporarily maybe lost our beach but we may have gained some snow grooming. So you know you give and take Jake sometimes people but hey the are you going to get a sweet bogner one piece. Like snowmobiling joke soup. I already have one APU asks. Why up yes? I do need a sweet snowmobile. Snowmobile my wife's here. Maybe she could approve right now. Approved a snowmobile shaking her head. No she says yes you got you got a new amp man. What more do you want? What what else? What else you guys got going on? Oh Oh got some gigs. In the beautiful city of Kenosha Wisconsin January eighteenth or playing the Great Chili. Cook off at hat tricks. That's a classic to Milwaukee Money these days. Yeah we'll get we'll get there for sure and circle that's your huckleberry up there okay. It sounds good. I mean I'm on and hey everybody back Mr Spinner Ryerson here still. JK taking powder you're at this. Time is so spinner The pug world championship first edition was two thousand housing. Eleven in dicara. I did not know that we have is and we have the acts here but I thought maybe a little bit of a history of the Pugsley world championships might be an order. Sure I guess kind of what started out of of you know Jeffrey who he's a community do-gooder in the Dakota Iowa area and and Gary and I were riding talking talking about single speeds and the one who said why doesn't that happen in the winter. Wiesner fat bikes like that. And if you put one on I will donate one eight five hundred dollars. I remember the five hundred dollar part of the deal which was a big deal because if you won the world championship race you got five hundred dollars and it's five hundred dollar bills remember. This place gets nothing. I moved here so that actually had a pretty big draw. Brought a lot of people down from Minneapolis. Saab lived in decor at the time and a lot of the studs came down. Hollywood Henderson race. It Remember remember seeing a Kind of a home built version of a big dummy at that first race IRA built is welded together a pub a back end of a big dummy to make a big fat dummy. The first big fat dummy. I think it was the first race. Yeah that was a point where we started CRESCO Iowa and raced snowmobile trails and gravel roads. which was quite a challenge? It was snowy and Wendy that year or two it was really cold and the best story is when Hollywood came through the halfway point to town and Ridgeway which was about fifteen miles through the trails. he was wearing full spandex. Get up including the SPANDEX shorts and his man region was freezing exquisitely pulled up through towns I was standing there like sodomy. Have your hat and gave it to him. He shot it straight down his pants and kept on going uh-huh and when he got to the finish line at the end to give back to Samsung. Put it back on. His head knows it. So I know that trade it off was the first pugsley world champion acts holder. Yes and that was at the point when you did the race and you're eligible dribble to do the shenanigans after and when the acts. Yeah I'm trying to think what were the games at that person. was that the king of the hill drinking until I think was the second one we had two thousand teeter-totters tug o war tug of war. That's ray somebody's bike out of the way. It was a good one. Yeah Two Thousand Twelve was Colin Ford. Year that's right. Yeah and Dave Lens awarded himself a trophy. You just found a plundering hundred bathroom and I was going through some of the pictures earlier and if I can put together some kind of video slide show. I'll try to do that because going back. You know eight nine years ago now. Those are some pretty interesting remembrances. Some of the early fat bike racing. That happened in the Midwest. Yeah it was kind of before like the big series he started and we didn't know exactly what we were doing and how was going to work Like we put in a lot of course was never the same. The first year was a point point a lot working out logistics with getting people's cars from the start to the finish line. One year was mostly gravel apple race when we didn't have as much snow another year. We've had a lot of trails involved and we race stone-built trails until we got kicked off of those. The first four years were very different. How did how did she ended up winning in two thousand thirteen? What there's a picture of him in the basement? I think it is underwear with an axe. Yeah I don't know exactly how that one went but basically it was kind of a best in show of the events. At the end of the night I would just pick somebody like go. You would and it's helped me put quite a few of them and he actually think. Think many guests it was twenty sixteen. He hosted Pugsley world's up in Rochester and it was a board game that when they had the apples or shoots and ladders or something he made his own Bugsy World Board game and they had a little ride and they played a board game in a bar in that salad. That must've been sixteen or seventeen. I'm looking and Mike McColgan. One in two thousand fourteen Yup by virtue of the fact that he takes kick ass photos or I'm not sure how he got it but I'm not sure either. I'm sure I worded it. I don't know how now he's deserving as far as the final name on the axes Ogura in two thousand fifteen. So yeah that's one I wasn't there I wasn't able to make that one and Kirk Johnson ran that one and I'm not sure I know they had a jump. The shark because of the fat I bikes have jumped the shark and everybody was saying the thing is over. It's a fad so they had a shark jumping contests. Somehow he won that. And somehow that's the year that the acts decided to you leave and not return I thought that was a year. Didn't he like hide it in the bar like you. He hit the corner of the bar and Dave found at the next year and it had ooh and awarded it to shock. Willie worded it. which is kind of what the theme of the whole world's as I'm looking at the the axe now I remember we had a kiss aside grinder? We're in the backup D.C. Shop we cut a surly early Pugsley rim and half or is that a twenty four hundred twenty four large. Marge Yeah and then we just cut a tire mountain bike tire and made a handle and so it hasn't traveled Pretty well for the first couple of years and now it's time to get it back out there. Have Somebody win this thing. So the kind of the new format separates this from the Pugsley World Championship race. That might still happen in the car at some point in the future and turns out more into a traveling trophy not with somebody getting awarded the axe at event with several possible components and then they'll custodiet for awhile L. and then come up with another event somewhere else and that's up to them to do that at that point. I'd like to see it. You're putting on a race somewhere that that's always going to be tough and you never know what's going to happen in winter like no Kind of where I live depends on the snowmobile. If there's snow did he have snowmobile wheel trails. But if there's no snow you're not allowed on them so depending on the time year in what. The weather's like you might have thirty miles of trail. You might have done so the idea a here. Is that the Games. The actual was never awarded to the winner of the race necessarily. I don't think it ever happened. Where the when are the race won? The ax doesn't look like it. So the idea is that it's always been the games and the stupid stuff that happens the after party where the AX is warded. So I would like to see you know Steve Puts on Grace Sweaty Pugsley Games. They offer his race. He's one of Georgia's racist or down. Here maybe you could even be at What's a urban cross urban jungle PROC- jump across something like that? Where there's here's a cool man and everybody can do their race peace and then we just bring in the the after event and the answer right on so it's going to happen here at fatter by by the lake Tomorrow night Saturday night. Yeah once it's GONNA post Probably next week some time so I think what we're going to try to do is a goalpost ghost ride where you have to go ride your bike about twenty feet and you have to get it through the goal post in order to qualify for the next round right so so you don't bring your fancy carbon. I might have to lend this guy out five thousand dollar bike and going through the Gulf. I WANNA say my Pugsley sitting right in front of us. It's the the white one. This is my fourth one because I broke three and this one is probably probably got like six hundred bucks and this baby. That's kick ass. I can see if he can break it again tomorrow. The idea this one's lasted quite a bit. You can see the scars on it. The bucket ball scars. Yeah it's been hard. I've been trying tried to preserve white tires. I wrote it and single speed Arizona. M My tires turnpike orange to sand and dirt and stuff so It only comes out in the winter now so after the after you qualify. You're going to have the weather events to weed out and crowned champions to look and see kind of what the terrain is around here unless we do something like Data Science Iq. What the parking lots are parking? Lots we got a beach we got. There's plenty of stuff to work on some cool stuff. Maybe we'll see we will see so. That's Saturday night. We will have a champion and probably you'll hear about it on some future. Show new new Pugsley champion. Who all right? Well thanks for filling us in on that see. Mr Daisy. Annette's uncles ready for another song. Radio the Moroccan. I think he just received a request. Did you. You've got to put money in your pocket right now. I'd requested free They've it took True Sir yeah Stalled a a a In their. Hi Amelia. How is it going? It's going well very good. We're kind of inserting this into the show. We did live on Friday night just because at our technical they'll difficulties down there no problem so I'm just going to basically excuse me. Welcome you to the show just like we were talking at that point but I think it'll be obvious through the through. Our this really happened later. That's okay do you want me to try to have the perspective of a couple of days ago. No Oh that's okay. I mean it's yeah they. They had really bad wi fi at the hotel so we couldn't get a signal for the phone and stuff in places like awesome and weird at the same time right. Yeah for sure all right so I will. I will start now all right all all right. Everyone please welcome Amelia Cagle from wheel and sprocket and the huge ass fat bike series. Hello there you yeah. I think you you actually have hyphen on your name. Now don't you I do. I just got married deployed did all that. Yeah I think we kind of caught up with you that they sort of that was the day of the steelers real ride in Milwaukee and we got to enlighten and there was a uh of very large bike. Parking area thanks going out at this place that's awesome. I'm glad to hear it. Yeah you know we have a bike processional parade which was like you know. At first I was like more trouble than it's worth but it was absolutely awesome. Yeah definitely recommended. It forever likes to ride with her partner. Shaw definitely a cool thing so it's winter now and We're basically halfway through the huge asked series You and I were just down in Illinois for race number three at at Illinois Beach State Park in Zion. And I just wanted to get your perspective on how the seasons going and and maybe clue people in a little bit that might not know what the hugest series is all about as to what they can expect from the remaining three races her sure yeah. We're so excited. We're actually on our fifth season huge. Ask which is pretty awesome and is honestly like in my personal life made like winter like it really has so Yeah we're really. We try to be something different so you know all those chemicals Kinda grew up in the bike industry but going to a lottery says a lot of like you know. Oh pretty serious things. But there's something about like like sutter just inherently fun and like it seems like the people who like riding especially in the winter like have this this little bit of edge of Wacky nece so we wanted to create a series. That was like something different something that really emphasize like having fun and finding places and bringing awesome the people together own that bikes in the winter. And yes we decided like you know we'd go to great new places but we didn't want to take it too seriously. So we started with paper plates Number like how are you need to the scoring system. We found a bucket and a thing of tires. And like this'll work so whoever finishes first throes Irt uh-huh plate in the bucket. And that's who's going to win and throughout the five years. It's just been awesome because we're really trying to have a like very welcoming atmosphere. We we recognize like not everyone is try to before and we really want to grow the category so we try to be like very fun. Keep it like pretty simple and and you know. I think it's been really well received. So yeah that's kind of how he just started. Yeah I noticed a lot of plaid shirts out there. I think you get you get a few extra points caressing in flat. Is that correct for sure you know like spandex. LYCRA is like very special place in my heart. But you know we thought we'd baseless series on a fictional lumberjack. Who has come to life over the last couple of years? And Yeah so we wanted to reward people for dressing up in costume doing things a little wacky. And then you always get points if you have flannel on your your bike. And I've been very pleased to see the creativity that has come out through the years. It's been great. Yeah there's a lot of Lumberjacks in the woods Another thing that I Found on the course when I was riding around taking photos was a shortcut. What is that That's something that happens at every race. We tried to do a shortcut time. And you know we always done a beer. Shark cut rate because like we're Wisconsin. It's cold all the all deserve a beer. But this was a funny one we went down Illinois and we forgot like you can't drink in the parks and the State parks there. So this year We had a little creative and we had a smaller shortcut. So you had a roast a marshmallow and wait a little bit and then eat at mallow and it was super funny so yeah it. There's a good one. I'll Dan. Dan was kind of the master of ceremonies down there. I think going all these are so good. I don't know how many had tried to the demonstrate to the other people that were coming in how to do this so that they can make source. I think Cardi route seeing You know people had Moore's in their pockets for later pretty pretty great. It seemed like some people weren't really familiar with what a s'mores is. I'm kind of surprised but they kind of figured it out right over. Glad to expose people people to the awesome ways of camping and enjoy the outdoors so yeah so The course was a good one down there at the beach because there was some sand to deal with with the fat bikes. Definitely having a major advantage in that kind of terrain I was just looking over the the races I've been I've been into every one of these places but I can't really remember them being as Sandia San Valley. Obviously but how do you find. A course. That's kind of conducive to sat Bhai clown. Yeah you know though. The original thought was that we were GONNA throw race next to a park near every single one of our will and sprocket locations so so the first couple of years we kind of followed that pattern but the last couple years we've been able to partner with Just cool places so you know like sand daily. For example simple someone reached out to us and we're like what hundreds of acres of sand dunes like. That sounds awesome. Let's go there This last race anxiety on you know it's been really really awesome to partner with other bike shops and other people who love bike so working with Chris Zion and you had to tap dot com like we just thought it was a natural like let's team together and do something something cool and I don't know there's just too much like hatred in this world and a little bit of like. Oh we can't work together but honestly it's so much more magical when people do so. I thought this last weekend was really really quite special. Yeah we had a great time lows. They're both Friday and Saturday nights and While you're race was in in the daytime title on on Saturday. Some there were some shenanigans on Saturday night. That awarded are a ugly world championship axe to a new x holder. And so there was. It was a really fun just because like the whole weekend was about that bikes and and and having fun to be celebrated I think absolutely right right on so the next one's ad is at regular Parkin West. Bend on the twenty fifth so folks still have time if they want to partake in the fun how do they go about Registering and is for sure. So all I got to do is find huge. Ask that bike or just type into Google huge S. We come up pretty good there. Riegner Park is going to be a good one It's an awesome park with a lot of mixed terrain so kind of like reached what we just had but the cool part is there's some single track Through the woods there too so it's going to be an awesome course and really looking forward to it. There's an ice rink that I'm trying to figure out a way to get into there too but yeah yeah all you gotta do is register online or you can register Davin person if you're more like that but Yeah we really encourage people of all abilities to come out like you've never tried to fat. I bike like you're really missing out like it's just so much fun So we have ten rental bikes that every race to their first-come-first-served but yeah it's a great way to get out there and try something a little little different area good. I saw that I think Specialized had some demo bikes and I think surly had some demo bikes too. So you might run into a spot where you can try several different fat bikes if you haven't done it before. Yes for sure. Talk to the person next to you and be like hey bride like uh and everything about the fat by community. I really do think it's a lot of like minded people lot of a little bit of a weird taste to the rest of us but You know I think thank we all get along pretty good so and and then I see you have some more local stuff going on this. The Snow Alley Rally is has that really. I mean we haven't had a lot lot of snow since October. So I don't know if that's something that's mandatory for your fun but It definitely not. We always can make course autumn anything. But this one's a fun one just to Eh keep people engaged. You know racing around a building fund raising or on a cornfield though as five he just always good to get people together and just kind of Stretch the muscles there and see who's really who's got the skills days very good so There's then there's two more racists in February and Yeah we're super excited for this Blackhawk one and Middleton so we somehow coerced a private Ski and Bike Club to let us all come for the day. So we're really excited about that and you know you also get to be a member for the rest of the season there. So that's kind of a cool thing but this place is really built talk and the single tracks. Amazing it's just Super Fund and that will be guaranteed some snow because we'll go on the cross country snow blown trails there too so I have something to go on. I put my order. And hopefully we'll handsome by that. And so he he. Yeah and then Season Finale at San Valley Golf resort art. which is an acoustic was announcing kind of the central state by Wisconsin rapids there? It is Wisconsin's only desert ecosystem and is just the neatest place place in the world so if you can travel that one's definitely worth it as well. Yup that one's on my calendar for sure so it's like really weird you feel like you're in Arizona. Thank you very roll up. And they're like cactus and you're like am I the yeah. It's quite the spot so definitely check it out all right well walls or anything else. You want folks to know before we let you head back to a day's work you know. Our tagline is always at huge. If you're not having fun you're not doing it right. So Oh yeah we encourage you to come out and really. Just try something new if you haven't done bike race before we feel like we're pretty welcoming place to start right on well again. Thanks for taking taking the time to talk to us and the rest of your day and thank you for all you do. All right takes forever JP It's I was going to spend from fat bike radio here. How are you doing? Well how are you doing. Great little chilly in Milwaukee but Still a nice day out there was ten this morning ten degrees. Not Quite not quite what you get. Probably but Still a little bit on the cool side thirty degrees here right on nasty. So we're we're catching you IN-BETWEEN A couple of events. That you've been putting together for quite a while out there and it's been a couple of years since we talked to you so I just kind of wanted to catch Chapman C. C.. How life treating you and and talk about some of the stuff you're doing in the Yellowstone Valley there? Let's do it so so I just got back this morning. Actually and the This was the fat. Pursuit can't be head last weekend. Correct yeah exactly that was. It's Kinda new this year just kind of China. You know Kinda funny in general if that you're trying to understand what may be people want and need So that was kind of a new thing this year Just trying to help people set them up for success for the event really I mean I just I know a lot of people. People don't have the opportunity to be in the cold or on this type of snow that we have here we have allegation. And you know there's a lot of tricks uh to riding on snow and just everything that goes along with it so We kinda concentrated on. Yes asking them up for success at the event As opposed to just kind of winter camping and going into kind of like with our other can't yep we kinda go more in depth into more of a camping at ask winter camping aspect to it and tearing apart stoves and six and things like that ad and Just more in depth stuff and so At this past weekend we were just really focusing in on. How can we help these folks get to the finish line and I think it's a good formula? I think it worked out. Well good yeah just build takes away the nerves from participant and really gives them confidence You know there's definitely a lot of nervousness going into an event like this and and fair enough they should should be It's the pursuit to be taken lightly. so yeah we come back this morning I was. He's doing a bunch of management stuff last night and yesterday and meeting with land managers and getting grooming stuff plays you know I mean it's complex right ideal to different state agencies Montana and Idaho. I deal with Grooming district's on both sides no deal grooming district The State Park with Harriman State Park. And then we deal with the forest service with that piece of shells. Well so Kinda touched all those bases yesterday and Now I'm taking a breather to kind load. Everything backed up to take off their tomorrow. Busy Time Florio for sure. So you kind of what you live Ensler You GotTa Watch his passion can get you in trouble so this year ear. You've got the fat pursuit race. Coming up Just like in a day or two and you've got Bike and ski as well as foot. Put Racers available. It sounds like that's something new for the event Tom. How did that come about? Yeah so I mean for years ever since I started of course like we we know winter ultras as human tower right so since day. One I've been kind of being asked about it and I just been kind of like. I'm a biker. So I kind of been reluctant to do it but I've always wanted to but I just didn't want to put the effort into chew it And mainly it really comes down to timelines and Really it's that The people on foot so so you know I mean that can definitely extend the event with volunteers in my weekend and everything else and then And of course I was always thinking. Well I got open up the long distance event to to foot traffic and ski but then someone it's it's really. It was driven driven by other people saying well Jay. Why don't you just try opening up the sixty K.? Maybe that's a good way to start and so So that's what we did. We open open that up to foot ski. And we actually don't We don't ask for clarification of Discipline so you can make up your mind literally the day before it when you register and I and I think that's a cool thing because I know I I'm a multi sport athlete and I know a lot of other people are around here and saying so and we absolutely do have great ski snow And so for someone to make that last minute decision if you're scaring biker. I think that's that's a cool opportunity And then with doing that this year new obviously we also I wanted some Beta testers for for the two hundred K.. Route and so I have three people on foot and three people on skis. That will be Beta testing that two hundred K.. And that's just for me to kind of to see some timelines see trail uses interactions And just to kind of introduce that also to other agencies and things to see that and you know really it's to build upon for next year And helped me figure that out. So yeah I'm excited for it to see how it all pans out. I'm not always said we have With the I know we have. I mean it'd be interesting to see how skiers fare does. Yeah sounds good. It sounds like you're doing it. The right way is getting some some knowledge before you really opened up to everyone and make sure that it's going to work and that you have all the infrastructure in place and all that good stuff so yeah yeah assets. Just yeah it'll be so that's obviously the big stuff that's been happening in your life recently. But you've had some other changes just over the past year or so Regarding sponsors and whatnot how stuff shaping up for you for doing other ultra races and around the country with the different types of events that you like to participate in rather than organize Yeah so I had a counter shaping up I mean my life. This is still moving on as I would Definitely a you know just different the landscapes different but What I do is not going to change who I am is not GonNa Change And so as far as counter things It's the first year not going to idea rod after eleven years. So that's kind of a change but changes. I'm going to Morocco for the atlas out race so that's a new event And it's the same race organizers as the Silk Road and mountain race which is Kinda got some popularity over the past two years So Oh yeah. In February. I'll be taken off to Morocco and riding gravel bike which is kinda crazy because I'm training on snow right now. but That's really exciting for me. Something Different I've dedicated so many of my winners revolve around I did and it's Yeah I'll miss it. What's going on but it's kind of really refreshing for me because I'm not all hung up on? I did I did. I did her odd and I'm actually doing more fun riding With friends and things like that on snow and just doing some different things and training differently. So it's actually reached aged and this is only the beginning of the winter but It's been a change and I just I don't feel pressured actually did right. I mean I feel a little bit nervous trying to go and do a A race that's going to be in the spring while it's winter here but I think that's what I enjoy. I need that challenge and something different so That's coming right up pretty much as soon as pursue over I have another camp after that and then I'll be just like shutting down in a hundred percent focus on that 'cause that that'll be just a couple of weeks away And then I'll be going back to Italy again. some other opportunities over there Be Going and riding Italy. Divide as well There's a lot of kind Different irons in the fire as well right now. So we're kind of really see what shakes out Through my years previously. I've had a lot of opportunities that I would I would softly entertain but ultimately kind of probably turned down because I was so dedicated to that life of what I was leading and so I didn't really need to take up on those opportunities and now now I am. I have yeah just different opportunities with cannon going other places Sounds like it's cool. That sounds like it's cool that some things things are opening up some opportunities. You're able to take advantage of that. You might not to have been before so the racist like Atlas and the one in Italy. These are multi day. Are they kind of tour. Divide esque style races. Yeah the mountain ranges. It's like I said it was organized. So that's like a I don't know if it's like seven or fifty miles or something like that So that'll be great Italy divide. I've been doing that since day. One and I know that race organizer really well. It helped him out a bit. So this'll be the fifth year for that actually And that's even a great tour. I recommend it to anybody 'cause it is it. Is that lifestyle and cafes and this and that but it's also an awesome raised if you WANNA race it or if you want to just go to write it so I really liked that culture over there and other partners over. They are with the title ahead and Physique. So in a touring company that I'm toying with over there so there's just some good stuff but yeah bike packing events and then Some other sell. I think that run counter is I'll be back dirty Kanza. Xl So You know that's a that's a family family of mine. If you will the gravel family and dirty candidate things so I'm excited to kind of go back there again And then twenty around with that high country row immediately after actually dirty cancer which is around Arkansas that that got released last year by Adventure Cycling Association and now there's an event on it so there's been some kind of back and forth those folks over there We'll see you know just kind of taking it a little by little and folks thing on kind of in the moment stuff but also looking down the road And just kind of negotiation some other partnerships as well More or less just moving my life forward and what. I've always done right on it so doing a couple of different kinds of races. You must have a couple of different kinds of bikes. What What what are he currently riding for your snow type and and then for your grandma type racing you know I I got rid of most all my also bikes except for an older batteries. Which is actually one of my favorite fat bikes? That's ever been made as the older version. So I'm actually riding that right now And that's shooting me fine you know When it comes to like the whole bike sponsor thing and stuff like I'm not just going to go chase down and ask for a bike? Go right up different bikes That seems just a bit like fake for me and like yeah I can do that. I'm sure I can ask some brands for for a fight against that but I have a bike here so I like it so the right it Because I'm not gonNA commit to a company. I'm not going to get a product to get a product and just not that type of athlete if you will or when I look at sponsorships author shifts and things. So that's just a weird thing for me and you know I mean as I understand you know you're you're asking me you know what kind of bike riding and things like that and I definitely gone down. The road of looking for a bike sponsor a bit and then I actually backed off off of it because to me. It's like what does that mean to me. It actually makes me answer that question. It's just like you know I like I said earlier. I just don't want to get bikes that. I don't really feel a hundred percent behind representative. Just just a represent a brand or just to get a paycheck like I had those conversations and I actually kind of walked away from them and said No. I don't feel good about this. This isn't right And so you know I do have a some other stuff stuff going on. I mean most people know her Silk Road. I wrote the radio labs by the trail Donkin. It's an amazing bike and really amazing. Brandon ended just Getting to know those guys have been really fun I like their Personality and kind of who they are And those kind of relationships are are fun for me And some kind like I backed off and now I'm taking it slow not So yeah and that's good. I'll probably ride that bike again for our The atlas coming up and Yeah we'll just kinda see where it goes you know right on. Sounds good So you had been talking about. I did a rod earlier and that this is the first year in a long time. You're not going to be doing it. what what do you have As Recommendations for folks that are just GonNa start out. I mean aside from attending one of your fat camps what what what do people need to know. That might be contemplating it at this point as as it's a mature event now what do people know. There's so much it's out there now. you know it's coming to tell these people kind of just like take it as like a take it slow and ticket and live in that moment take a camping trip. And don't rush it and don't don't be overly nervous about it I mean I mean you really got to enjoy that type of stuff have success in it and Alaska in general it was just like a a little bit of a different different. DC and you're gonNA come across different terrain that maybe once not used to the environment they never been. And so okay. I mean it's all about being prepared I don't know if I have any great tips or insight to it for somebody but I will say like You GotTa Really WanNa do it. And don't let the pitcher is on the Internet. Full you into being such Jay This romantic beautiful thing and it is you. She's some if you enjoy that type of Type Style Song 'cause it's just it's it's very there is hello there is no fallback safety. You know You are your own safety and Yeah served just respect it. I guess what I have to say. Yeah well I know you're busy. Jp I really thank you for having a few minutes. Talk to us and I hope it's not a couple years before we catch up with you again and have some other things to discuss. Yeah chime back whenever you want man I appreciate the call. Okay Dude enjoy picking up links by all right all right. Yeah well it was a show. We're bigger to that Rosengren from our friends from Exxon. Hey how no matter. How about a round of applause for example league? Give it give yourselves around applause for the Derby action to yeah wouldn't be. I can't finish your show toasting Tony. `Grande SES twenty nine. Th Birthday tonight had heard Eh you all right. So that's our show tonight. We'd I'd like to think surly bikes and forty five north and Manitou and Fed Bike Dot Com Zion psychically huge assery series stained on podcast. No no a maybe the every day cycling full Oh spectrum cycling show thing showgrounds children. It's you know you reach sixty and and your brain steps work. Maybe it stopped a little earlier. I didn't notice all right. Thanks everybody and we'll have back suckle take because of this thing ladies and gentlemen. This is our dance number. This is a brand new one. It's called Unicorn Porn. You can guess what it's about allowed uh-huh mm-hmm the borough awards. Meaning the Eh mm-hmm casing clean streams. It adds up. Thank you

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New Year Weekend // This Is Our Time

Celebrate Community Church

50:39 min | 9 months ago

New Year Weekend // This Is Our Time

"Everybody this is keith lee. I'm the founding senior pastor of celebrate church in sioux falls south dakota and this is our podcast i just wanna say thank you for joining us and it is my prayer that this week's message would truly encourage you. Enjoy hello celebrate. We hope you had a wonderful christmas. But as passer keith has been talking about actually christmas starts now. We had december twenty fifth at christmas. Comes after the birth of christ so we hope that. You're having a great christmas season as we go forward test your knowledge on a couple of things. What do you call a snowman. That has a six pack. The ab domino's snowman k. It doesn't get any better so hang in there with me. What are the gingerbread man. Put on his bed a cookie sheet. Okay how about this one. Why did rudolph get a bad report card. Because he went down in history. Yeah that might be be knowledge that you don't need. But lemme kirk. Johnson is that i think that would absolutely change your life. You know pastor keith. It's been a marvelous teacher and starting january nineteenth. He's going to be teaching a class for eight weeks. On tuesday nights on the old testament now some of us were part of what he just finished on the new testament and from my standpoint mandate i learn a lot so many things that helped me understand god's word even more than i understood before the old testament is so full of understanding of how god works in naya that a lot of people never quite get it and they get caught up in some of the things while he's going to be teaching a class that he's going to unpack an understanding of the old testament. And we encourage you to join us for that. Now you can take it for credit but she also on it. Which means you don't have to do the assignments or great but you still get alert for now. You can find all about that at celebrate. Church with backslash education. We encourage you to join us for that. I'm so grateful that pastor keith for all the teaching that he does and he's law me to open up. God's word with you today. Would you open up to luke chapter nine. Luke chapter nine now. It's hard to believe that we're only a few days away from two thousand twenty one man. I mean that's crazy. I got crazy year but mainly a few days away in the days before a new year are great days to reflect and ask ourselves some questions to evaluate. Ashur sell some questions. So here's a couple of courses. I wanna ask you when you look at the world today. Are you concerned about what you see. What do you think if i said. Are you concerned about the way you see. People treat each other. Would you say i'm concerned. Yes are you concerned. About the direction of morality and spirituality in our country are you concerned about what the next generation will phase kate. We'd all agree on that. But i'll ask you a different question than how many of you would love to see a movement guy that would sweep the world. That's a yes absolutely. you know. Most people don't know how close they are to losing something until it's too late. I've been around couples that one of them had no idea. The marriage was that far gone until it was too late. Maybe a health situation person didn't understand what was going on until it's too late. Maybe a a parent who relies on addiction. That a child had until it's too late this country. The united states of america was founded as one country under god yet on july second eighteen sixty three that dream of a united states almost ended. Our country was a great civil war. The south had been winning many battles and there were literally one major victory away from a u nited states becoming a divided states from that point on on a hot humid day near gettysburg virginia. The battle was raging. The south was actually winning the battle and historians would agree that had the south won that battle of gettysburg. The war would have probably been over within the next few months in our country would have been divided forever. A key point of that battle was held by the union forces and it was a point that the south wanted to take the reasons because they were able to take that point they could surround the union forces in the battle would be over the responsible. For holding that point was given to a thirty four year old schoolteacher from maine now. It was the twentieth maine regiment that he was in charge of well five times. The rebels attacked that point and tried to take it and five times. They were beaten back as he faces situation. Colonel joshua chamberlain is. He faced the reality of what was happening. He saw this half his men were dead over. How the half were wounded. As he looked down the hill he saw the rebel forces down there. He's outnumbered five to one. They're averaging two bullets per man is what they have left. He understood the situation but he also understood that if that point fell that the battle would be lost. He understood that as he looked down the hill he saw the rebel forces again. Mobilizing for another charge. The last one had been hand to hand combat at the wall. He understood that that charge would probably be mean death and would mean defeat. We'll come back to that story just a minute. In luke. nine jesus has called his disciples together. Now let's define disciple. Disciple is a follower of jesus. So how many of you are followers of jesus. That means you're a what disciple. So he's talking to disciples then he's talking to us now. Now the disciples at that time. Obviously they're facing a world that's full of fear uncertainty and broken us today. We're facing a world that is full of fear uncertainty and broken us. And i say that. Because the what what he's gonna do here was for the disciples but it's as much for us now as we look at two two at the two thousand twenty one. And what's ahead. So i want us to read. These versus gathers luke nine versus one and two. And if you read out loud with me here we go and call the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all the demons and he'll diseases and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of god to perform healing now to do something a little different. I'm going to go through these two versus literally word for word to unpack. What does that mean for us. Not what do you mean dead. But what does it mean for us now. Okay so you're ready to learn here. We go first word is he said that with me. He tao who is he. Lots of crater the creator of the heavens and the earth. The galaxies the moon the stars. The earth is part of the milky way galaxy. Gets crazy there are one hundred thousand million stars in the milky way galaxy. One hundred thousand million stars in the galaxy and the milky way galaxy is one of up to two trillion galaxies that we know of. That's crazy. now here's a question. Who created him he did. He created everything that there is. So whatever comes behind the word he he blank. You can count on it if it says he gave count on it. He forgives count it. He does whatever it is. You can count it. Why because he is a creative and he is your dad. Here's an expert. This has he gave them say that with me. He gave them see you. You can only give what you have reminds me of a man that was in the in the gym and he was working out and he's working out and phone rings and he grabs a phone on the other end. Wife says honey. I just got a call from a realtor. I know that we've been looking at houses. Will that house that we've been looking at. I know it's i know it's hot about price. But but they just said they knock down ten thousand off of it he says. Let's get it absolutely put in the offer she goes. Are you sure we can have absolutely absolutely. She said well then remember. We've been looking at different cars while the guy said there's a new car i know that's more than we wanted it. But it's available and he's worked with us. He's has get it get it. She says sweetheart shares his absolute said. Well one last thing you'll be talked about visiting my mom taking a trip. He has booked up lights bookham. She goes are you sure absolutely okay by the phone and walks a little bit and he said who's phone is this anyway. Give somebody else's but if you're going to give you have to have in order to give it so example. I said hey. Can i have a thousand dollar bill. Well you'd have to have it in order to be able to give. He gave them he gave him. He has the ability to give because he hasn't he created everything. What did he give the next word is he gave them power so that word now the word power means strength power straight goes together. I know a lot of you guys got as i work out almost everyday at the gym and man the gym holy cow. I see a lot of power a lot of straight and man. That's that's just. Look in the mirror. Before i get out there and actually start working out. There's a lot of power in there. But i want you to just quickly turned to matthew eight just anybody who was turned to matthew eight. We're not going to read. I just wanna glance at the power of jesus. It says he gave them power. Did jesus have power. Look at this in just two chapters matthew eight nine glance at the power that's displayed if you look at chapter eight verse. Three jesus heals a man that had leprosy now glance at verse seven. He heals this insurance servant. Look at verse fourteen. He heals the mother-in-law of peter look at twenty six. He calms the see. The winds in its stops immediately just on his word. Look at verse. Thirty two of chapter eight. He cast demons out of a man. Now look at chapter nine verse twenty. A woman touched cheeses while he was walking by and she's immediately he'll disease that she had for a number of years. Look at i twenty five. He raised a young girl from the dead. I twenty nine. He restores sight to blind man. And then i thirty three. He cast out demons. Then look at verse. Thirty five chapter nine thirty five says this. Jesus traveled through all the towns and villages of that area teaching in the synagogues and announcing the good news about the kingdom and he healed every kind of disease and illness. How many kinds every kind of disease and illness. He gave them power. That's power. it's interesting if you ever been as place in a place where maybe you had. Authority didn't have power for example. Let's say ultimate fighter came into my home. I would have the authority to tell them to leave. Not sure i'd have the power to be able to do that. But does not have the power he does. he has all power and he gives that power to to you. You and i have all of that power but not just powered. Says he gave them power. And here's the next word and authority. Say that word with me forty now. The definition of authority is the lawful. Right to enforce obedience. I like that definition the lawful. Right to enforce obedience have. Have you ever served on any kind of committee or with a group that to balance you served on it but you guys had no authority to me like why are we here. We have no authority to do anything at all. Well you can have power sometimes but if you don't have authority. It doesn't help when i was in college. One of the jobs. I had as i waited tables at a restaurant so nice restaurant and in really enjoyed. I think everybody should do that. Just to learn how to serve people but because of that experience my wife said he doesn't always like to go out to a restaurant with me. I guess what i'm judging. How the waiters and waitresses are doing okay. Because when you did it especially the higher end place you there's a standard and so i'm always critiquing you'll of thing and she's don't do that but one of the frustrations have you ever heard. This were all i want is smart water. And that's all i want and nobody seems to be paying any attention while right over there. I can see in the kitchen. Is the water now. I have the power to go get it. Do i have the authority. No okay and so what. It is is the fact of looking at the fact that god gives us power but he also gives us what authority. What gives us the authority. Because he's our dad. Were made in the lightness. An image of him so everything that is god is hours. He says he's given it all to us. So it says that. Jesus gave them power and authority things about this. Your dad the god of the universe. The creator of the sun the moon the stars has given you his power and authority. It's the same power that cast out demons. Raise the dead healed. The sick caused the lame to walk. The blind to see walked on water. Raise the raise. The debit made the deck to hear that power is ours but not just power authority. The same authority to tell unclean spirits of fear to leave air subside. Less to dissipate discouragement to fade away at ours. He gives it to us. He gave them power and authority. He gives us that same thing. I love this next week though. Love next word over. Say with me over. I love that word you in high school. For winter sport we have to sports. We could choose from for the guys basketball and wrestling okay. That was the two sports to gopher basketball. I played basketball and it was. Also the reason i chose basketball and not wrestling was the fact that at that point six four hundred not quite a four hundred and forty pounds. That picture meena singlet not a pretty picture. You want in your mind. Sorry too late okay there. But here's the one thing i learned about wrestling. It's possible to defeat your opponent when you're under that makes sense if you're going to defeat an opponent arresting what position do you need to have over. You need to be over if you're under. There's no chance of un win make sense yet. I talked to so many people that they say they believe in god. They say they're following. Jesus how you doing You'll under the circumstances i wait. Wait wait wait wait. What was that word you use. Did you say under under the circumstances. What are you doing there. Because god jesus gave him power and authority. What's the word over all for you. And i have power and authority over every situation over every circumstances. Why are you under it. I love how romans eight says it no in all these things. We are more than conquerors through him. Who loved us so we talked about so far is that he gave them power and authority over cape before on. Let's just posit. What's going through your mind right now. Just what we've talked about so far have a hard time realizing that. I have all that up power in the sometimes because i still want to grab the wheel i still want to I guess i still second guess myself. i'm not questioning god but he gave me all that power. I'm so unworthy gave me all that authority. I am so unworthy of that. And i find it a challenge sometimes to accept yeah just to piggyback on. I think it's a lot easier for me to say you know god. Has this for giving you all this. He he's forgiven your sins but for me to believe it for myself. I feel like sometimes. That's hard to the devil. Use that so you know it's easier for me to say you got first of all we like. I said god gave it to me. So it's his now. He gave it to me and be able to own it and embrace that knowing that it's through him in the holy spirit not me and be able to work in that view it as queer ambassadors of christ's so when he's given us power as through christ who strengthens us and so we have to utilize that aspect to make sure that we know that it is through christ so we're not doing stuff just for ourselves. The power was given was it was given to the world was given to the sons of god sons and daughters of god But we are supposed to use it not for ourselves. But we're supposed to use it for god's purpose so i think that's what is lost because it's easy to take control if the reasoning is for myself very easy but a lot of times we don't want to take control when it's for everyone or for others. We are selfish beings. I think we we have the understanding that how 'bout humble understanding that it's from god Then amazing things can be done when we can just let go of that. It says that the the power is like the working of his mighty strength ritchie exerted in christ when they raised him from the dead so the power that raised christ from the dead. Now a fijian's has this is the same power that we have at work with us and if we just. I mean i do this. But by and all of us just realized that and had a humble attitude think what can be done. 'cause he gave them but he gives us we have to personalize it. He gives jonathan all. He jotted the he gives us powered authority over. Okay let's continue it now because the next word is all say that word with me long. He gave it a power thirty over all now. There's a word that when a man hears it. He loses really consciousness in some areas. Okay he starts sliding sweating. He kinda just loses. The thought process is not the word. You're thinking of it it's this word buffet. Buffet see men right now. They're they've lost okay. They're they're totally gone at the point. 'cause man for for man buffet whole hall. Now let's say you go to a buffet and there's hundred different items of food. How many are you allowed to eat hundred all of them absolutely and how much of it can you eat all you until you can't eat anymore. It says that he gave him power authority over all. I love what jesus had. Matthew sixteen says i've given you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. What ever were for all whatever you bind. Earth will be bound in heaven. Does that include. Everything includes everything. He gives us power and authority over all fear over all despair overall discouragment doubt disillusioning. Defeat you and i have power and authority over all not some overall now. The next couple of words people might go next couple words. He gave power authority over all the demons. It's interesting poll taken recently. The majority of people believe that there is a heaven absolutely. They believe there's a heaven but a much smaller version believe that there's actual hell amancio. If demons and unclean spirits were evident. Then because jesus out are they evident now if they were real then are they real now yes. They are absolutely in fact equations. Six paul says it this way for we are not fighting against flesh and blood enemies but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world against mighty powers in this dark world and against evil spirits in the heavenly places. Now when you think of the word demons curious what picture comes your mind. Maybe some of us are old enough to remember. A movie called the exorcist. Okay and the head spins round. Collect your mother-in-law okay. Maybe something like that but another word is unclean spirits. That's used in the bible and that means a controlling influence. Think about that unclean. Spirit is a controlling influence. Let me ask you. This is poverty it controlling influence. Yes it is. How about anger. Yes how about worry. yes would rescue. Think how about fear. Let's look these words. Hate discouragement. Depression anxiousness abuse. Procrastination undisciplined unforgiveness. Poor self image all controlling influence. I said it. Because sometimes i'm around people. That's hey man. I just can't seem to control myself. I can't seem to help myself. Wait wait wait wait. You have power and authority over how much all demons is an unclean spirits. You have power authority over all of that you were created greater than the divas. You are not to be intimidated. You rule let me ask you have you ever. You ever had a cast something out of your house for example your kids. If they're small brought in a new path that they had found on the street. Get that thing out of the house ever there or maybe you were the kid. Get out of the house. You rule or let me ask you this. Have you ever been in a house. That was ruled by an out of control two year. Old raise your hand okay shares but let me ask you if you have an out of control two year old. How much dialogue is there. Do you have a collective bargaining agreement with them negotiation session. I don't think so you rule you control why 'cause you have part of thirty over that that's what god has given us. He's given us power and authority over. All demons says unclean spirits and many ads. These three words and two. He'll say those resources me to you. Know he'll now when we think of healing we think of obviously the physical healing which of course there is but are there other types of healing. This is emotional healing absolute mental financial about marriage. There's all kinds of says this and two. He'll give us power authority to heal. Let me ask you are are more people in need of a fiscal healing or an emotional healing. Do you think motion. I think we're all gonna even a even in this covert situation. More people need emotional healing than physical. How do you heal has and to heal well. Proper sixteen has good words. He'll like medicine. You and i literally have the ability to speak words of healing into people he gave them gave us gives us power authority over all the demons and to heal. Here's an ex word diseases now. Everything diseases we think. Cancer heart disease and so forth. But there's kind of philosophies about illness and that is the the symptom or the cause. Is that make sense. Unfortunately we focus more on symptoms and my right but can we agree that causes influence that so for example can worry an anxiousness cause sickness disease. We all know that. How about anger and hate can poverty about unforgiveness. Poor self image. In fact has been noted that they estimate not in a pandemic systems but in a normal situation almost half. The people that are hospitals could walk out. They knew they were forgiven because of the link between gate. Now we're face off the versus the second but let's review it. Did he said he gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. Okay what's going through your mind now. I think one of the keys and you and you said it when you said people on the hospital if they knew that they were healed The devil the devil wants us to fight against each other and he was reading the fusion. Six we spend so much time fighting our brothers and our sisters and not fighting those things that are unseen. My problem is with you or you were you. You know what i mean and we focus so much on that but half the customer. That's not the he's not the problem she's not the problem. Praise for those on seeing things in. And i think that's the key as believers understanding that in not wasting that time fighting against each other world. Same team i mean just to pay off of what you said. It's almost like we are sometimes naming conditions without going. God since god is god knows all god knows whether the condition is is is Is you know it's a spiritual condition or whether it's a sickness condition or whether it's a disease In matthew tan. I won It said you know. He called him his twelve disciples. He gave them power against unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease so all of those three components are three different components and sometimes we are trying to attack the wrong component. And we're and and that that's where we sometimes wonder about the efficacy of our efforts and it's not necessarily that we're not trying to help. It's just that we're not. We're not we're not We're not exerting power and authority for the specific thing that is necessary to be To be to be reached so when you mentioned the i think it was out of matthew mentioned scripture that we have the keys to the kingdom as followers of christ as disciples God god trusts me. God's entrusted me and just by look we were talking about earlier. I think we see so little. Were under so much so much of the time that you say. The hospitals and so many people could just walk out. Were under so much. We don't realize the amount of trust that god's put in us to be over. Say when you're speaking of the two year old it's totally what's going on in our house right. Now we have a toddler that just loves detest us. And god's just testing our emotion. I think and it's so true that we have to remember all the time when she is just having a fit. She's testing our strength. But we also have to remember. We have power and authority over that we have a power and authority to. How do we react what we're do. We use absolutely well says that he gave them gives us power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. And now here's a key. And he sent them out so that with me and he sent to them he gives us all this power all this authority over all things to do what to sit and listen to sit and just be fat. Are you kidding meet. No he did it to send us out. We celebrate are multiplying church. Were a sending church not a sitting church so this might sound crazy. But we don't want you to come. Sounds crazy when you say that we don't want to come. We want you to what to go. We want you to go see. You won't see miracles in your life. Stay at home. You'll see miracles. Your life isolating yourself or being under fear. Hugh won't see that. It's when you go out that you see miracles sad statement but there's four thousand churches a year in the united states that close their doors thing about that four thousand churches a year closed doors. You know why for a lot of them. They didn't go. All it did was stay. It's kind of like the dead sea. They have stuff going in but nothing comes out and stuff like that becomes stagnant and dies. It reminds me of the story of the traveling evangelists to a one congregation for weekend and spoke friday night and he preached saturday night and then sunday morning sunday night on sunday night. He says this he says you having been with you for these this weekend. I'm convinced that this congregation will be the first to see. Jesus when he rises again in man they'll sit up and look at each other because he says it says clearly in bible that the dead in christ will rise first. Well we don't want to be that he's given us all this power all over the but to send us out but then look what comes right behind it. He sent him to proclaim the kingdom of god and perform healing and then for six says to. They began going throughout the villages. T preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. So why does he give us this. This power and authority over everything and he sends us out for this purpose. You wonder what's my purpose to proclaim the kingdom of god and perform healing. It was then and it is today and we looked to two thousand twenty one. That is what we're to do. The mission of celebrate is to me cheeses. Help people meet. Jesus because we believe this when you meet jesus everything changes. You can't stay the same. It's kind of. I love the now passer. Keith gave a couple of weeks ago. it's like pulling a pin on a grenade in swallowing it. Others are going know. 'cause it will explode when you've met jesus there is power to throw. That will come out of you if you've met him. That's our vision. our mission is to be. Jesus not just help people to help them. Be jesus to a lost lawson hurting world a faith that doesn't produce life change in a faith that doesn't go isn't a faith it all. That's why patrick heath you might know crispus but do you know christ peace. If that's the case it will be. What would happen in our community. Whatever community in if there were one thousand. Jesus is in sioux falls. Do you think things would change. There should be. We're all called to beat at. Because we have his power and authority in every way shape and form in fact. Why did god sent his son. Jesus to proclaim the kingdom. This is what it says in luke. Nineteen for the son of man. This is jesus talking has come to seek and to save that which was lost can ask our people lost today. Yes are they lost in direction. Loss hope loss in their marriages lost in truth. They're lost i. I've been ministry for forty two years and the reason i been a mystery for forty two years as ben because of one incident that happened forty. Two years ago it happened at the sioux falls arena. Whose lincoln high school's graduation and in those days. There could still be prayer. That and so i was asked to an opening prayer. So we're at the arena. Eight hundred students on the floor then. Of course all the family sitting up on the seats and then there's a few of us on the upper level then after that. The people that were differing degrees went down to a lower level where they were going to obviously give the degrees and so i was up there by myself. They said just step here. You can watch so great. They walked down. I'm there and i physically felt the presence of god. Come and sit in the chair next me. It was as real as chris here. I felt it that closely and is the first person stews name was announced and came across and shook the hand gaza diploma. I heard him whisper something mayor he said. Did we reach him or did we lose him. And i knew what he was saying. 'cause statistics share that eighty five percent of students. That don't make a decision for christ by the time they graduate from high school. Never will the second one came. He whispered the same thing in my ear. The third one the fourth when he did it eight hundred times and broke my heart. I realized i can't sit. I can't sit. I have to do something i have to. Here's what matthew nine says when he jesus saw the crowds he had compassion on them because they were confused and helpless that in today's society like sheep without a shepherd. He said to his disciples the harvest. Great but the workers are few so pray to the lord. Who's in charge of the harvest. Ask him to send more workers into his feels. Think about i'm going to. I'm gonna be turned sixty five years old this next year. you know. You're getting old when the candles cost more than the cake. Okay that's how you know you're getting older. But i look back and i go. What did i sell my life. Or what did i give my life for last year. they'll give it for something. Would i give the last twenty five years. And then what am i going to the next twenty five. What are you. What are you gonna get the next twenty five years of your life for you can give it for something. You win. Colonel chamberlain face his reality. It looked very very bleak when we look at what's happening in our country today and around the world. can we say it looks bleak. Here's a couple of stats. According to a recent pew research poll eighty four percent of my parents generation described themselves as christian gate. My parents eighty four percent. My generation seventy six percent millennials which are twenty three to thirty nine forty. Nine percent went from semi six to forty nine percent. It's snowballing downwards with each generation. The ranks of the religious unaffiliated have risen to twenty six percent. That's up nine percent one decade. It's leading a recent poll by dubbed. Confirmed that millennials have surpassed generation x. And baby boomers as the loneliest generation. The report found that thirty percent of millennials always are often feel only about one in five people in this age range. Say that they have no friends. While twenty seven percent said they have no close friends and thirty percents had had no best friends. Those surveys are m. is of the soul one author said it this way. This generation of young men have traded adventure for video games and traded romance for porn. We'll finish off here in a minute. What's going through your mind now. Well that scripture that you're sharing about the the harvest is plentiful or whatever that That just really came alive to me. Yesterday i was out shopping. And i just talked to the the cashier and they just said oh i love your nails and you know this kind of third having a conversation and then just said well. I don't know if you've found a church. But you know i got to celebrate and just wanted to you and see just i mean god had he had said that moment up because she was ready. She's like the lord. I think the lord was speaking to me yesterday. You know i'm gonna comma. I promise you. I'm i'm gonna be coming. And she told me a story. And i i kind of walked out going. Wow so often. I think that no one wants to know the lord but there is. We don't know where those people are. Our job is to just be be cries. I mean sometimes. I get stuck thinking well. I'm not doing anything. Unless i'm you know speaking to all these people or something but just being just having a cheerful look you know just being kind or just you know spending time with god every day so that just he just comes out you know and you don't necessarily have to try it but you know people will see you know and like you were saying earlier. It's it's it's not us you know. It's just christ in us just people see it and they do want to know the lord. That's not so good. You just what i was gonna i put down. I was like. Don't make excuses so many times we wa. I'm not a. I'm not pastor key that my best read. I don't work at a church you know. That's their that's their job and we or and we make all these excuses are we spent time comparing ourselves. You know what i mean. And the devil wants that to happen because we're not about the father's business and there's other verse that says about us given us dominion and i don't wanna make excuses anymore. You know what i mean. What wherever my mission field is got has been there for a reason and just like what what what karen did. She could of made an excuse for it. Well i don't wanna do nothing. But she got a point that moment and she was just being obedient to that prompt him. And i think that's what we need to do is be obedient to that prompting and not make excuses because got us call each and every one of us to go out and make disciples now just people that work at church each and every one of us and if we took that on the okay got knowing this is not me you gave me. This and i will walk in humbleness in got an you do your work. God can do crazy things through that being in the word being cheerful. You know professed the gospel at all times and if necessary you would use words and boom you take that bold step about church and she says yes she receives it how many thousands of lives can be changed because of that one question the us. I think we're all seeking something. I've been seeking something my whole life just the wrong direction and then somebody turned me and now in the right direction. Can't hold that gift. This is after christmas. Noggin wrapped up and put away need to share that gift. We are called share. That gift has boldly in as much as possible because everybody on this planet no matter what they profess. They're seeking something we had that answer. I agree Like you said it's We're to proclaim the kingdom of god We're the face. The hands the feet of christ Were disciples of christ like you said It's easy to be to surrender and to be defeated when we're under and that's that's that's a huge part of of of of control is being under however we always have the power to overcome and we have to let people know that and we always have that power is just a matter of whether we will be under a whether we will be over so we have to have that message and and and in preached the gospel The son of man came to seek and save all that were lost And it was because gotta given the world and mankind free will and we had spiraled and snowball as you said things have gotten almost out of control but god is can is in control and so as long as we represent the the face of defeat. The hands of god we can produce change psalm. Eleven verse three assists question. The foundations are being destroyed. What then is there for the righteous to can we ask. Are the foundations being destroyed. Sort of the rights to do well. There's a couple options retreat. Pretend it doesn't exist you know we can In fact i look at two thousand twenty. I think a lot of people have retreated. They retreated into their homes. The retreated into isolation the retreated into social media. I think churches have retreated. I've seen different churches that have retreated and people wanted to just get back. I just wanted to get back. You want definition. Get back is retreat. That's retreat so we can retreat. Here's another option surrender. Just surrender. Man's be as somebody else needs to do. Something about that surrender. That can do anything but banned. The government needs to do something man. The school system should do something. Somebody should do something about that. While i'm holding my remote being entertained when colonel chamberlain face a situation. He had the choice guard retreat. Do i surrender. Just die or is there another choice as soldiers look to him knowing the attack is coming looked him. What's what what's it to do. He made a statement said fixture bayonets and they knew what that meant because the last one had been hand to hand at the wall. They did but then he said second command. They weren't expecting as he looked at him. He looked over the wall and he said charge what he yelled again charge with that. He jumped over the wall and started running down the hill. Those who are remain the twentieth maine regiment. Were so captured by that. They jumped over the wall with him and ran into history because the south army see them charge thought reinforcements had come and many the rebel simply lay down their arms and literally in ten minutes with no ammunition left. They had captured the fifteenth and forty seventh alabama. More than four hundred men. They saved the point that saved battle that saved war that saved the country because one man said charge. Why are you an eye alive right now. Of all times in history god could have planted. He has his alive right now. Why not to sit not to watch not to surrender not to retreat. No going back. This is our time to charge. We have to go through our neighborhoods and communities. We're going to preaching the gospel and providing healing through relationships to the words of our mouth. It's not just about some people going to plant churches in home churches which is about every one of us who's a follower of jesus charging into her god has called us our work our neighborhoods. Somebody might think. What can i do. You can give direction to a teenager. You can mentor a child. You can visit a senior citizen. You can encourage someone who's discouraged. You can give hope to someone who's lost meeting. You can love those who are empty hearted. You can help those who are hurting. You can get direction to those who are lost. She can share true to those who are being lied to. You can be a friend to those who are lonely. You can get purpose of those who have lost meaning and much much more. This is our time. This is our time to charge. Here's how i think. The verse reads today as we go into this next year. And jesus called celebrate church together and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of god into perform so departing. Two thousand and twenty. They began going throughout the villages. Preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. He last thoughts before pre one just Thinks so often said that already earlier but it's so easy to think that you know we're not doing anything we just you know if we talked to a teenager. Well that's just one teenager. We mentor a child. It's just one child you know but they just have kind of a picture of like all dark dark trying dr rectangle and then Each one of us is just a little spot of light and then around each one. There's like five more spots of light because we each reached five people and pretty soon the whole thing is. There's a lot of light in the rectangle so maybe it is one teenager and one kid at school but then those people are going to reach more and eventually re end up reaching a lot of people and so often. we think. I can't do that. I don't have the words. I don't you know that's not my expertise but we don't need to. All we need to do is be listening ear. Let god speak through us. They had no munition. They just charged guided. everything else. Matthieu question do you know. Christ really pass besser. Keith asked during the series up to hear that you might know christmas. bettino christ. Are you experiencing his power authority. Because if you're not you might not know him. The michigan second question. Are you going or are you sitting. Because if you're sitting you might not know him. 'cause christmas starts now. It's time to charge. We were born for this time. Let me pray for us. Father god i thank you that your word is as true to us today as it was two thousand years ago. This is not about what you did with. A group of menu sat beside then. This is what you're doing and saying to us now. God thank you that you're the same yesterday today and forever and because of that the same power same authority over. All the demons an unclean spirits. All of that is ours to be over that. The god that you're you're sending us out to proclaim the kingdom of god and perform healing. God forgive us for the times that we have sat not this year. This is our year god. We want to see miracles. Thank you for what you're gonna do that. You use us as weak and frail as we are grateful for that we love you and your name. Amen thanks again for listening to hear more messages. Like this one. Make sure to subscribe in. Check out our podcast. Jennifer pass messages. And if you like what you're hearing consideration hidden evening sharing it with your friends it helps so much you know you can click the share button. Take a screen shot and on your social stories and tags at celebrate church for more content from celebrating to connect with us go to celebrate dot church. We love you and we believe in you god bless.

matthew keith lee celebrate church lemme kirk basketball pastor keith Ashur gettysburg Colonel joshua chamberlain jesus wrestling luke keith maine meena singlet man buffet whole hall amancio us
Bonus: Maureen Ryan Griffin  Spinning Words into Gold

Charlotte Readers Podcast

56:11 min | 2 years ago

Bonus: Maureen Ryan Griffin Spinning Words into Gold

"Support for charlotte readers podcast is provided by park road books the oldest and only independent bookstore in charlotte conveniently located in park road shopping center her and by charlotte mecklenburg library a connector of readers leaders and learners with twenty locations and a twenty four hour online presence for more information about these book minded sponsors who help authors give voice to their written words. Please visit them online at park. Road books dot com and see 'em library dot org or drop by the bookstore or any library branch. I literally felt out my heart leap in my body. I just i i thought you could do this. You could read people writing and you could write together and then you could read it and then you could make something out of it. I just it just. I've never wanted anything more than than that. In that moment when i felt that and and i get immense satisfaction out of out of supporting writers you can listen to charlotte readers podcast episodes for free at charlotte readers podcast dot com or at charlotte mecklenburg libraries digital branch website and you can subscribe and listen for free on apple podcasts or wherever you like to get your podcasts host. Landis wade is committed to making this podcast worth your time. He's a recovering trial lawyer award winning author book and dog lover who's laid back style encourages authors to read and talk about author published and emerging works. These are the stories that touched the emotions followed by conversations that offer death an insight into the readings and writing lives lives of the authors. Welcome charlotte readers podcast authors. Give voice to the written words. This is the show we meet charlotte area authors and those visit queen city city hear them read their work. I'm your host. Landis wait and before you any further wanna thank you for taking some valuable time to listen to this podcast. I know there are a lot of things you could be doing right now and the fact chosen to spend this time with us is an honor and a privilege for between season three and season four with bonus episodes should be inspirational original instructive and entertain in today's episode we meet author and writing coach maureen ryan griffin poetry from her collection ten thousand cicadas can't be wrong and guys writing books pinning words into go a hands on god to the craft of roy long other topics morning exposed to the man and blair riding discusses some of the secrets to get writing. We start the show good morning reading porn. Why you can go back to a story you abandon abandon years ago and finally finished why you can go back to a story you abandon years ago and finally finish it because a field the old that's been fallow yields better crop because seats have germination periods because some cicadas needs seventeen years here's because we need darkness to see the light and so two are stories because we had some living to do. I become who we needed to be to right our story because we grow into the stories that are hours to tell because the thing we need to include to make our story. What it needs needs to be hadn't happened yet because we needed to practice because our stories are patient. Our stories are kind are stories. Keep no record of wrongs nor count the number of times we have abandoned them because our stories seek only to serve us and the people who need them because some births are harder and more painful than others because labor is called labor for a reason because we say yes to a labor we're of love to birthing a story when we are ready and not before because we can come to see that a story is often into polite to say ready or not here. I come but will come if you call that. It is time for supper because a story loves to be stopped. Marine ryan griffin has taught the art and craft of writing for twenty five years the wide variety of venues cleaning queens university central piedmont community college charlotte the john campbell folks cool in the appalachian mountains chautauqua institution. She's an award winning poetry. Not fishing writer his published in such publications kaelin chelsea cincinnati poetry view and texas review the author spinning words into gold the hands on guy to the craft of writing the tag. I'm yet daily practice a three month journey of thanksgiving knowledgeable gratitude intention. How do i say goodbye and three poetry books folks apart from her latest collection. Ten thousand cicadas can't be wrong was featured on the writer's almanac. Maureen was the recipient of c._p._c.'s as two thousand eighteen irene blair hunnicutt legacy award honoring a community member who has contributed outstanding service support of local and regional writers and offers individual digital coaching as well as treats workshops and classes to her business wardle maureen welcome to the show thank you it is such a pleasure to be here. I'm psyched liked today that we're gonna be talking about <hes> writing but before we forget to that <hes> ten thousand cicadas can't be wrong. You mentioned something in the poem about <hes> some cicadas <hes> come round every seventeen years. I went to a deep dive on the same when i saw this cicadas. Come like every thirteen seventeen years right yeah well they have every kind of cicadas has its own life cycle so well but but there are there are some that are annual. It depends on the kind kind of cicada broods so they come at different times. Yes yes <hes> this poem actually evolved from a wonderful writing exercise and the takeda's <hes> came into the poem without my thinking about them ahead of time they just showed up so you kind of talk about the introduction of the book about how this came to kind of percolated and then you found your voice with it and then this this poem though the title interestingly enough why you can go back to a store you abandon years ago and finally finished it a slight. It's never too late to finish. What you started is that the idea also never too late to due to start writing. I actually wrote this poem. In one of my classes i'd given some kind of prompt and there was a woman who'd come to this class and i hadn't seen her for a long time and she'd been working on a story and had abandoned it so i wrote it as an encouragement to her and then i realized it's really an encouragement went to many writers including me. I've actually very recently returned to a a a writing project. I abandoned for a long time so so so also never too late in life to start right exactly so you've got a graphic of the life cycle of kate in front of this book. What's that all skaters right. I did they started showing up everywhere and i don't want to miss community to be singing. That's really what it means to me. Make your joyful noise switch really to me is is what writing is. It's an opportunity to speak our are truths to to tell our stories to learn to grow to preserve the things we love so we're featuring today on the show your book bending words gold hands on guy to the craft of writing. You got a very helpful in detail index in the front. <hes> you have stories essays and poems sprinkled throughout the book because examples. What was the idea behind that well. When i was in elementary school i my favorite book was my reader and i don't know if you remember readers or if you had a reader but it was this <hes> this whole collection of stories and poems that we read and then talked about and did work and i i really wanted a book that was a community and chorus of writers. I didn't want this book to be me talking talking about writing without having a lot of other writers experiences in here without having work of other writers in here so i think of it as kind of a one in room schoolhouse in a way which is how i teach many of my classes where you have multi genres and multi levels of experience but we're we're all at the same process and we can all teach each other and we can all learn from one another so that was important to me so we're going to go through this. This is a very comprehensive book. If you're if you're out there and you've been writing for a while or are you just thinking about getting into the writing <hes> it's a very good resource and we can't cover it also also we're going to cover some important parts of it here and we're going to start with one of the things that you thought was important to start with so let's start with a little reading you there in your chapter about who i've never even heard of a fire balloon before i read zen in the art of writing and came across this beautiful passage passage and yet because of ray bradbury's words. I not only know what a fire balloon is. See one now lit by a boy and his his grandfather still drifting and burning in an illinois sky. This is the power writers have who are we. We writers as unique as each of us is there is something we have in common something special we share out of all the people in any given moment who thought the same things things and didn't say them we are each that one who finally has to say we put our yearnings and our love into into a latter an essay a story poem as writers. We transcend time in space because we say it is so our words preserve serve and create worlds. This book is organized around the six basic questions. Every investigative reporters taught to ask a friend. I talked talked with like this idea but he asked. Shouldn't you start with why no i told him. Writing always starts with who there are many things. I'm not sure i've in this world. This is not one of them think about it. Writing isn't always about who though it most often is but there is always a who for the writer who's somewhere at some time spun the words we are reading onto a page even that infamous anonymous had a heart and long's a personality desires and dislikes and obsessions a family of some sort a community and country you do to all these things and more make you who you are and are part of what you have to give as a writer some maureen in this reading here use the words yearnings and love yearnings in love with it gets turned into a letter a story or maybe maybe passion ashen i you know i i think probably any strong. Emotion can drive us to writing. It doesn't have to be love. I i did a lot of writing when i was really angry and that was great eight fuel. I think we need some kind of emotion. We have to care because it it takes something as i know you know and i think most of the people listening to this know ooh that if you're not passionate in some way you're not going to have that that energy. You need to to get it done to get finished so <hes>. Let's talk about the beginning rider or the rider who lacks confidence. You've got a very short paragraph on page thirteen of the book which you're gonna read them. That'll springboard burst onto the next conversation instead of focusing on your talent or lack there of ask questions such as is. How can i become a better writer and what's possible for me. If i throw my whole heart into my writing what juicy fascinating person place or thing can i write about. What can i write that will touch or entertainer inspire someone else your chances for happiness and success will multiply so this is all about asking a question asking a more empowering inspiring question that actually leads you forward so you teach classes you have writers the classes and do you ever get the question mighty good all the time. I mean that's why i that's exactly what this action my favorite question to ask as a writer is how good can i get. I don't know the answer to that question but boy do. I love you know working my way into seeing where that that leads me. How good can i get if i just keep at this and it's kind of like <hes> roll up your sleeves and get to it right exactly an and forget yourself you know i think one of the reasons that we love to ride is because we go to this magical place where we do forget ourselves we i ah i i know you must have had the experience of these words. Just they seem to come through us sometimes rather than are coming up with them and i so many writers i've talked to we love that experience and if you're worrying about yourself and how good you are. You're not gonna find that that magical sweet spot. It's it's about focusing on the word urge or writing or focusing on the person or people. You're writing at four war either. One of those places will will get you somewhere. Move you forward but focusing on yourself. There's this it just spits up every worst fear. You have about yourself really a i think having listened to what you just said there. Maybe don't get caught up in you know whether you're any good or not because even the good ones still have to sit down focus on the mechanics and get it done right exactly exactly we all start with a blank page. Let's focus on for just a minute so i think the most most important thing is is to discuss we have to discover our own y for ourselves what we get out of it and just like i started the who who chapter of the book with ray bradbury. I started the uae chapter with leo tolstoy and i have a long thing. I'm going to read you one sentence. This is leo tolstoy if already told that i should that what i should write would be read in twenty years time by those who are now children and that they would laugh and cry over it and i love life i would devote all my own life and all my energies to which you pointed out my my language of the the love that that comes through that that's important to me so this is a very noble thing but i loved learning that crime novelists who graft and has his whole series of books starting a is for alibi alibi and i heard somewhere that she'd had a very acrimonious divorce and she would lay awake at night fantasizing about how she could poison and and and and those fantasies turned into her book so there was this whatever you call that was a very powerful why of getting those emotions out so so i think we all find our around and i i love talking to people about that. You talk about on page. <hes> let's say forty here what riding can provide and and you get <hes> adventure venture direction communication gratitude healing and immortality there. You can read along you. You did talk about memories. Reese preserved <hes> get into the memoir. <hes> is that kind of what riding gives back. <hes> you know in this process of discovery this healing this direction in your life perhaps fulfillment farm joy you got joy love and influence inspiration russian now success you snuck that word in there that feel sneaky so riders to be successful to whatever whatever however they define success different ways of defining right and i think for i think for some people their success is is getting their story down and for their success is being a new york times bestseller <hes> and or writing new york times bestseller so i i think again it all comes down to what really getting in touch with what we personally want for ourselves what matters to us and i think we we do right for different reasons for me. It has always been a about connection and most of the things i've written either. I wrote for fun because i just i call my business word because i just really love just strained words around and seeing what they say to each other what they say to me what i want to say to them <hes> but but but also because somebody wants something and i think if i write it i'm giving them that the grief rich while i have how you mentioned how do i say goodbye and i have a crystalline praying yoga by came directly because somebody lost a father after i lost my mother and created a ritual to to to say goodbye to her and move through the different spaces of that and she said well you please write it down and then will you please turn this into a puck and i had no intention of running but i did it for her. Uh-huh so <hes> that's me though and i think everyone has their own their own <hes> gifts that writing gives them so we a lot of listeners here. <hes> may not be right as they love books listening to stories and good poetry <hes> and yet a lot of what you talk about in your book. <hes> is the people that aren't necessarily working toward getting something published <hes> it might be as you mentioned this chapter gratitude journal it might be just preserving memories unreas- for their own children <hes> it might be scratching something out on a daily basis that <hes> helps them get the day started you know or or just hell it could the to do list right. That's writing it. Is i love thank you leonard. That is just exactly it. I think <hes> i i really wanted people to find tools and strategies for whatever their intention was whatever they wanted to get out of writing i. I tried to put as much as i could. In here. I have a very detailed chapter on the process of revision <hes> very nitty gritty and some people will never look at that because that's not a part if what they're you know they're y of writing. That doesn't really help with what they're wanting for themselves. Let's talk for a minute before the the mineral break here about the win and we're writing. I think talking to you before we recorded <hes> about winter right and i was explaining to you that i started this podcast at all. These ideas going to write and my retirement with all these things. I'm learning about podcasting all these task. I am writing a lot. I'm doing show notes. I'm doing scheduling but you know finding the time when and where so you've got this chapter when you talk about regularity irregularity speak to that issue okay okay so i'm going to speak to that issue by actually reading a little section one of my writing heroes naomi she have ni- likes to write early in the morning being when asked about her writing day when she spoke at chautauqua institution. She shared her delight at discovering that her writing hero william stafford had the same habit but now i believe that regularity is critical. I love a quote by david agnosio a great poet from new york. She told us once when someone questions about his every day eight a._m. Writing habit he said well of course i have to go to my desk at the same time every day because i feel as a writer that all these little ideas and immature gathering in line waiting waiting to rush into the room when i ride and if i don't go to my desk at a regular time how do they know when to line up. Oh i love that and i go under say that ever. Since i heard that i picture my writing ideas like kindergartners all the shy rowdy dreamy eyed and they're lining up for a chance to play in my poems and stories you also talk about forming rituals and the fact that you might <hes> certain things before or after you write in a navy maybe you get your ideas about walking in the morning riding your bike or emails out for a second or whatever but bill ritual and try to find that found that time to create yeah yeah and and i think the best rituals i think our sensory and i do not advise anyone to write their emails they right. I think the best thing to do is to is to either. Do it really soon after you wake up before you've you've let yourself think about what you have to do or give yourself alf some clearing time i have a one of my writing students goes for long she swims laps and and while she swimming she's thinking about which is kinda right and then she goes home and right so i think getting yourself back in your body and you can do that by letting a candle listening piece of music by walking something very sensory that that ah just gives you that that entrance and habitual things are very useful. If you're you know if you sit in a certain chair and you know when you get to that chair chair that you're writing chair that can be really powerful for people we know the value of regularity terms of win but where would right you talk about well. Where have you written before. Where would you like to write. Where where have you never written. Where are you now. You know i had current carrying a lot of writers told me they carry notebooks and i've heard that is a good creative process to carry notebook <hes> so give give us some ideas here where where to right well. I have in the past <hes> sometimes i will give my writing students a contest and i'll say okay your job. This week is to you know like like from star trek right where you've never written before. That's what that's never been before and <hes> and i encourage. It's that and i think that i when i did this. I realized that there were chairs on my house. I had never even sat in before and i just find that it's very valuable to discover one big major thing. Do you write better in your own house or out of your house because some people people really when they're at home they're just too distracted by what they need to do and and going out somewhere else is what they need to get their writing flowing and some people right perfectly well in their homes and i again i really believe get curious and an experiment. I'm a big believer in experimenting about all of these things and just trying it and back to the one also expanding with what time of day is better for you. 'cause you really might not know what time of day is best for you too right so i've given that a lot too students experiment experiment and just try right in three different places this week right at three different times a day. See what happens and then i also think it depends where you are in your a project because if you are ordering your book of poems and you you know you're spreading them all on our table. That's very different than if you're generating a new piece of work that kind of thing you might pull over on the side of the road or you might be comfortable in your own space. Kirk johnson talked about making your writing. Space your own unique to you. You put up little things around you that help inspire you put those ideas are aligning to told right exactly exactly but i heard a wonderful story and i wish i could remember which writer this was but <hes> very <hes> very famous <hes> person who very successful and he was he built himself self this really wonderful writing studio when his first book took off and he found he couldn't write in any went right back to the kitchen tables. Were always road okay. That's good well. Luckily <hes> one of our sponsors sure on the library at c. M. library or has numerous branches where one can go to right and <hes> charlotte lit at charlotte. Dot org is located on central avenue here in charlotte close to where we record and they have a welcoming writing stadium from members and of course in your workshops you right people right to do we do and i'm so glad you mentioned the library because i love to write in libraries and charlotte lit as well has such an inviting space and they have this great thing going on and i don't know how long they'll be doing it but i know this summer they have this open studio studio where you can go down there and they have i studio two yeah and it's it's just amazing and they you know there's there's a writer. There who's kind of holding the space they have a wonderful name for that like sheepdog or something like that that that that person is holding the space so that you if you liked her riding community just knowing other people are writing and while you're writing. That's a wonderful option so we're gonna take a little break now. When we come back we're going to touch the senses with the marines help. <hes> we're gonna do a little bit. <hes> you know how to begin with the writing project. <hes> we've got a writing life segment as well. We're gonna finish up with a foul reading. I'm from ten thousand cicadas can't be wrong. No they can't so stay with us. Listeners next week could kick off season four qatar preview episode on that episode. I'm going to be joined by two riders gore connected to shaw laboratory <unk> who wrote an essay poem that appeared in beautiful truth a gathering of voices from charlotte north carolina port of charlotte blitz two thousand nineteen some beautiful truth initiative. You'll also hear story written by me. Appeared on a podcast called six minutes stories which is the brainchild of randal jones randall was on our podcast earlier in the year. He is an author himself and he has awesome anthologies that he publishes of writers and north carolina and kentucky and he's taken that work and he's turned into a podcast kiss. I've got a story that appears on that. You'll hear him read the story in addition to the store and the esa and the poem we're gonna talk about the author's author's coming in season four and we have a great land am excited to say that our sponsors back for susan four porco books and show national the library for more information to these you can go department books dot com and seem library dot org reading dropped by the bookstore any library branch. Tell him i'm shirley richard podcast charlotte readers podcast is a member of the twin city podcast network powered by ortho carolina for more information formation go to queen city podcast network dot com. We're back with maureen ryan griffin author of spinning words into gold hands on guy to craft craft riding the maureen when we were having a break here you know or stretching and bending and moving around and trying to get our bodies loose again. We're talking about the hyper focus of uh-huh things from a health standpoint riders need to get up out of the cheer every now and they're right yeah and so what do you do to kind of. Stay loosen number you a yoga person. Are you a walker. What do i am a huge walker. I i have averaged ten thousand steps a day for the for the past probably a year and a half or two years i i don't walk ten thousand steps every day but i make it up if i don't and speaking of the physical spink physical buying speaking touching in the sense as you got this section of the book right with your whole body and you got a little reading or related to that. Can you tell us a little bit about that. Sure sure so. This particular piece is from the what chapter and i explore a number of different what's but this is from a essay called what are the secrets of good writing and one of the secrets i talk about is writing with your whole body. Think of the water pump see near the end of the movie. The miracle worker in which anne sullivan played by anne bancroft is trying yet again to reach helen keller played by patty duke a girl rendered blind and deaf by illness on this at eighteen months of age and he sullivan spells letters into helen keller's hand as the water flows w. a. t. e. r. sullivan is is about to be discharged. She has failed to teach helen and the time allotted her w. a. t. e. r. w. a. t. e. r. it happens to be a word. Helen learned before her illness. The scene is as riveting as an electric shock. Helen freezes drops the pitcher. She is filling wa wahda wa she groans a guttural sound from a lost place deep inside she is frantic wild with this newfound found knowledge that her world can be named and shared w. a. t. e. r. language enters our bodies through our bodies. He's cascading into our eyes and ears and noses and mouths over our skin. This is the greatest secret of good writing. It's how we give ourselves in our readers the gifts of tears surprise laughter and more. It's how we show don't tell i began writing using i dea not words with my brain not my senses and when irene honeycutt in my first class with her showed me the importance of writing straight straight from my body it was at least a bit like that water pump moment of helen keller's there was a whole world that had been escaping my notice like the sound of of a single oak leaf skittering across the sidewalk and the shining drops of rain at the end of each pine needle after a storm now the years of my ears awake and now the eyes of my eyes are opened as e cummings. Put it what we need to do. In order to give our readers experiences that are truer than if they really happened end as hemingway puts it is to stock are writing with images so they can see hear smell taste and touch our words so does that what it means leans to right straight from your body to take the census that your body experiences on a daily basis and try to convey those to the reader to to bring a a world alive and when you're reading about something that happened in the past to put yourself the air. I'm one of the tools i talk about in the in the how to begin chapter is actually something i call a test or from a book by mavinga called a wrinkle in time where you close your eyes and you imagine yourself back to the plate place in time you're writing about and and go through all of your senses yeah and that's that's a good transition to a little bit how and how to begin. You've got a chapter after <hes> that offers a number of methods beginning on page one twenty one of the book number is to kind of get writers started. Okay and <hes> just talk about. Let's talk about a list of four five of these and then i'm gonna have you drill down in one. I'm here but give us a couple of examples of some of these that these days to get started. Okay created. I'm going to start off with a couple words maxwell perkins just get it down on paper for and then we'll see what to do with because i love that quote call well then. We'll bring out our own editor. Perhaps a because revision is such a different energy than the creative process so so one of my favorite ways to begin writing is just the list. Oh my gosh <hes> sometimes there's i will when i i know that i wanna write about something. I'll just start getting images and words come at me or i'm if i'm <hes> for example in the book that i'm working on now about about my mother that i've gone back to how she fed us. I will just make a list of different moments that i remember being with my mother and that list will get me going knowing and often when making that list and i start a lot of my students off with. Let's make a list of of first times think about the first first time you did something. Make a list of first time that you remember <hes> whether it's meeting a particular person or seeing place or any kind of experience and i remember the first time i ever heard the beatles for example that was the first time <hes> and then you can take the most akayev interesting one off that list and then write about it and then the sprawl which is my terminology for some kind of mind map people call the sprawl sprawl <hes> <hes> and it it's really this is all doubt. It's a great thing to do on the floor. Actually all out and make us grow sprawling. Yeah there you go in a sprawl is where you know you want to write about something. Whatever your topic is an example i give him. The book is my son. My baby was getting ready to you get a driver's license and he was going to drive off in a car by himself and and i speaking of first times that was that was the first time that i got the idea for making a list of first i times and and so i put dan's first time driving in the middle of a piece of paper and then i just all the way around the paper i just wrote down images words phrases little scraps of dialogue <hes> anything i can think of that might have to do with that topic and it's it's a way to just sort of gather yourself in it and i love it as opposed to the list. This is wonderful too but this is a very non linear way to approach the writing so that's that's it's been very useful and i can take a sprawl and look at it after i'm done and maybe i'll keep adding to it but i look at it and go. Where can i start. I just want when i write essays. Wh- what can i start with right. Oh that be a great starting spot. What can i end. Maybe an issue and then you took issue yeah well. Even sometimes it's an image like that that that essay i wrote about my son had started with an image of his ninety three ford taurus and when he was driving for the first time it was old then you know and he had been polishing it with all this paste wax and at this very old car and it was sitting in the driveway waiting for him to draw leapfrog. That's where you just take a piece of writing by someone else and read it and just read it. I actually have this thing. I love to do which is just generating the belief that an any piece piece of writing. There's there's a gem for you. There's there's a gift for you that will that is exactly what you need to write about. Exactly what you you need to write about. I mean i made that belief but why not no and so i will. I will tell people okay. Listen get your pencil out and and i think it's good to listen and read when you're when you're doing leapfrog and and just underline or put a star next to some interesting words or images or some idea idea and see what it may trigger a new and then start with that and and so you're leaping off <hes> someone else when i was describing this said it's kind of like a launching pad you use that that person's writing as an inspiration to get you started. What about the inquiry okay so you've heard talk about. Be curious be curious. I keep i keep hitting on that so that is starting with questions and i find it really useful when when you are beginning project just sit down and give yourself a good thirty minutes and just be with what can i possibly be curious about because usually the first thing that shows up for people when i when i suggest this is why i don't even know what questions to ask exactly you don't because you have this big muddle in your brain of not knowing where to go next but if you if you take that model and you start thinking of these questions who what where when why hi how and what might come out as who might be able to help me with <hes> is <hes>. Where could i find information about <hes> <hes> betty crocker speaking of the book. I'm ready for my mother. Just just using it as a as an entry point into writing or but you've told me your favorite god is the sprint yes that will always be my favorite section page one twenty three that kind of speaks thanks to the yes and and i i'm going to have to evoke william faulkner here. Who said get it down. Take chances. It may be bad but it's the only way you can do anything really really good. Get it down right and so i'll read read you my experience with this irene honeycutt my teacher mentor and friend introduced made this technique and a journal class. I took with her in one thousand nine hundred nine. It changed my life and i don't say that lightly. The text for the class was now the goldbergs writing down the bones freeing the writer within at the time. I had no idea you could let words pour out of you any which way with no regard for order grammar or even logic goldberg causes approach writing practice and she lists six rules. My favorite is lose control. Her book turned me into virtual writing machine. I spent a rather delirious two months pulling off into convenience store parking lots to capture a lyrical phrase. He's waking up at two a._m. To scribble down dream images watching words tumble out and trip over themselves to please me it was wonderful. That's a <hes> hamas sort of encouraging stream-of-consciousness. Get it. Just get the paper or your computer. Whatever he's an and start writing. Yes yes us and i think often you're better off on paper because there's nothing blinking at you and underlining words no i know i know yeah yeah but i i've really been been thinking about this and and <hes> you know one of the things i tell people whenever i lead a workshop we always introduce them to the sprint and and and some of them are familiar with it already and there's always people who aren't and and i i have a particular approach so the first thing i do is i pour some language language into them. I read them a short passage or poem because i think it it stimulates their their <hes> neural pathways their language center is is is lighting up when they hear language <hes> and i tell them this is going to maybe have nothing to do with what you're going to write although it could but i just want to pour some language into you like it's like priming a palm and then i give them a home phrase or home word like i remember or the last time and then i tell them ahead of time. After i've read this piece i'm setting the timer for may say seven minutes and you are going to keep up your hand continuously moving during that time and if your brain falls on you don't have anything to say than just repeat i remember i remember i remember and until something something else smells like a promise not to again. I promise not to again. They're in that one little scott go to the trump and and sometimes people fall back on that and and they often don't need to but but i think what it gives you a th the gifts gives you want is that you're probably probably gonna i know i do. I have a lot of stuff that is just unusable. You know it is just schlocky. I don't know what to write. I do make grocery lists sometimes yeah yeah. I mean that doesn't happen often. That's why i direct it with that phrase but some of it. I'm just going to throw out. It's not going to be any good but i find for my poems. I will often have these wilder freer more original more interesting things. That would never have come out of me. Using my regular writing process of sort would've mulling it over and letting the words come out you know in in pretty linear order and the and i think it's a great way to find your own natural writer's voice the other first thing i think it really develops over time is is just really developed a writing muscle like it it it develops your ability to get words from your brain onto a page more naturally more quickly and if you've ever had the experience i think almost everyone has having this beautiful idea and it starts to come on. That's so oh good then. You've got to ride it out and it's lost. You know what i'm talking about. I thought about it as a riding muscle but she i guess <hes> if you're training to keep your body in shape if you're going to train as a writer you should try to keep your body muscle and i think it just allows it. Just strengthens that those pathways as between your brain and your hand or hands so that when something wonderful calms your body is just trained to get what's going through your mind down. You know without a a lot of junk without worrying how it sounds without worrying about whether you're spelling it right it. Lets the creative process be the creative process and then you can go back if you need to clean up grammar <music> outright like this all the time but it's a it's a wonderful starting point well. Let's do this you. You're kind of leading into it here. This dual quick writing life segment with maureen here. Tell us about the who of maureen as a writer what makes up your who has it changed over time. What drives you well. I it started. I don't remember learning how to read. I have always loved books just devoured the my mother at literally had to hide my library books for me so i would do anything but read i i. I'm not kidding. She was very worried about me video game. I know there yeah actually you're you're right. You're right that was that was my my video game and and so books were better yeah. Oh i think so i think so. I believe that very very fervently yes i do. I think i think reading is is very good for us and and so i started writing poems when i was nine years old and i have have always loved to ride and it was it was really more for my own self expression. I was a journalism major for one semester in college and i realized that people were going join to tell me what to write and didn't want that. I wanted to write what i wanted to write so i i didn't pursue that and and <hes> so that's that's the who of me is someone who just loves language and i i really just i i don't i would love to be a really fine writer and and like most of us. I think sometimes i look at my own writing and i'm not very satisfied with it. That's hence how good can i get. That's the wrong question. I guess around question right so but but this idea of just being able to be a writer is what excites me just being among my writing buddy so that's important an and i write for as i said earlier for i find it very fulfilling i find it connects me to <hes> other people and to the best parts of myself twelve and <hes> i guess i should i should throw his that's my wall. You're what i got that so. What about your win. Well i i. I have to confess that that running a business is not very good for my writing life. I a lot of my creative energy does go into supporting reporting writers and i love doing that as well and <hes> i i will tell you that my my most recent one way or is that my daughter who lives fifteen minutes away from me took her family of three small children and her husband they went to the beach and i went over to her house with my writing stuff and i gave myself a in writing retreat a two day overnight writing retreat and i wrote like a maniac and it was amazing and wonderful so that that really worked for me. We still have to carve out the time yeah and i think i think it's so important and i have been very guilty of not doing this over the past several years <hes> but but i think you know i think you really just putting it. I like putting your writing. I because what happens to me as i say friday was going to be and my writing day for a lotta years and friday will yes soon as i finish this up and oh i need to email these people about the they asked me about this thing and so. I am very excited because i am i am when i come back from my travels and i start my new year. Monday is going to be my writing day before i do my work. I've heard that some writers say you got to be a little selfish and gorge riding even if it interferes with other things or other people's goals is where if you're gonna i it's very true and for me i i love so many people i have a an enormous family and many friends and many <hes> you you know people in the writing community and i just love your family supportive of your writing. Oh absolutely my husband is amazingly. He from the very beginning he's been amazingly. Submersible is worse than i talked about that. At great length i talk about it in the book and facts gold so foul question question here you're writing. Life story includes more than just writing. You've taken upon yourself to help others with their writing. When did you feel that calling calling and what do you do it so it was in that same german class that i mentioned when i fell in love with with sprinting with irene honeycutt i i literally felt my heart leap in my body. Just i thought you could do this. Yes you could read people writing and you could write together and then you could read it and then you could make something out of it. I just it just i've never wanted anything more than that in that moment when i felt that and and i get immense satisfaction out of out of supporting writers i i i <hes> early in my writing life i went through a book called the artist's weber julia cameron recovering your creativity and chooses beautiful sentence in there we are meant don't to midwife dreams for one another and i believe that so fervently and one of the things about so many of the people that i've worked with is there works have come out of life experiences. That have been sometimes very painful. There's been a lot of healing. There's spend a lot of people who have made important life decisions to alter their lives because they've been writing to do to take on things that they they've always wanted to do so. I've i love the transformational dance formation aspect of of supporting people's writing and i love for people to have their dreams. Come true. I i truly do love that. It makes me very happy as kind of like <hes> you know with podcast i'm doing i feel a little bit the same way in terms of supporting authors because authors you know getting out and talking to large groups may not be there thing but we sit down and have a conversation one and then we go out and a lot people can hear it and it's <hes> but it's really nice to sit down and kind of get to the heart of what's important to the writers and they can talk better without having to feel like they're on stage necessarily and yet in fact. They are because their works getting out there so yeah. I'm with you okay. This is such a generous onerous thing to do. I i can't tell you how how much i i appreciate that you are are doing this and i'm saying that as a reader and as a write off i appreciate that but like like what you go through i think i get i get back from it as well because i'm meet very interesting. People read books. I might why not read before. I come hell even learning to like poetry so so there you go and speaking of poetry. Let i transition into your last <hes> poem here for all right and <hes> so i'm going to read this poem. Oh on and i i just wanna say <hes> that back to the writing project. I'm working on now. How how she fed us which i am <hes> went from being a family cookbook. Now i'm calling it a cookbook memoir reflections on the recipes of a perfectly imperfect mother and back to irene. I'm speaking so much about her that she she has just been so instrumental in my writing life and my mother struggled with some mental illnesses and i i really had to mothers <hes> i had this. This mother who <hes> did some some pretty hurtful things and then this other mother who was was just lovely and wonderful well and when i started writing poetry i wrote all the hard ones all the hard things at one time. I actually said to me. Shirley must have one happy your mother right that one. She was just tired of me all these darkly intense up painful poems and and i realized that i had so many happy happy memories and this is one of them gets called for mother as i sort through this box of clothes you save for a granddaughter. I remember sitting in the tub you you wash my hair a halo around your head. Where light met the steam. I was telling you how much i loved being eight that i wanted to be eight forever forever and then i was nine and so happy to be nine. I wanted that age to last forever do then ten years clicking by lag. I hail marys on your rosary beads till i would want nothing more than to leave you but that year my eight you bought me this striped pink and white dress with a whale application on it. I remember wanting to cry when i tried it on the next summer and it no longer fit and though i didn't say a word you came home one day carrying an identical dress in the next larger size proving something about love. I've never found words to thank you for and that is nice. It was it was a wonderful wonderful memory to <hes> to <hes> resurrect yeah years. We're clicking by like hail. Mary are minutes have been clicking by as as well and we're about to the end of the show and before we foresaw off today <hes> just tell us a little bit about where we can get under email list and learn more about <hes>. You know these writing classes that you offer thank you so i have a website. It's word play now. How dot com word play dot com was taken but i like the now being in these dot com and can you can sign up for my what i call the word zine. I feature writers. I've actually <hes> featured just this past week catherine twilly who she was on the show. I loved her show. I love catherine so that was a lot of fun to do and there's a there's a bookshelf where you put in your name and email and then you click yeah i really want to get these and you can get that and and often the zuhdi milk well funny. You should ask that because i've been doing it every monday and i started in two thousand twelve and i i think i've only missed maybe two times i really been very faithful to it and i realized that a lot of my writing energy goes into writing those so starting in september birther i am going to put it out <hes> every other monday <hes> and in between i'm going to i'm going to send out a little report of how how my book is going because i'm determined to finish my books so you're carving out that time carving out that time when you saw your email list you also get a little something called the seven steps to a writing process. It's actually seven dreams tour writing. I dream fulfilled but she does have a lot of processes in it. You're right it does yes. It's a template for if you have a writing project that you truly want to get done then. This is how to do it. These are these are the seven steps and they truly truly work and i pulled them from what i actually did to get the family cookbook done <hes> when i needed to get done and it worked beautifully and i use the same process for reading spending words into gold as well so i thought i give people that listeners who might be those who are still waiting around right that first piece they can get on your email list for free get access to this this information for free and then if they might want to take a course thing check with you on that as well lake marinas been a lot of fun today <hes> talking to you about ready you too. Can i get one more. I wanna get one more shout out. <hes> i wanna give a shout out to emma. Scott douglas of main street rag published <hes> both of these books that has been words into gold and ten thousand cicadas can't be wrong if you're interested in and checking out these books and perhaps purchasing them then you can find them at main street rag dot com tom in the bookshelf. These books are also available on my website but i would love all of you listeners to go and buy them from scott. He's just been so supportive of me in so many writers like q. Landis is this book in the library as well <hes> yes. Yes absolutely an probably can get it through parker books too. I'm sure they can order anything absolutely yes they can. I'm i'm a big believer in supporting local bookstores. We are so lucky to have perk read books. Yes we'll fax maureen thank you. Landis been been wonderful to be with you well. That's it for today and other fine giving voice to the written words. If you like show please tell your friends and please leave a review on apple podcast reviews or like the gasoline selena drive traffic to the podcast subscribe to the podcast which is free on apple podcast. Wherever you like to get your podcast our social media links if you're into that sort of thing we're at our website showery podcast dot com. If you have feedback when idea for an author to be on the show you can email us in our contact page on the website an authors welcome to smitten me on the show when the author page you sign up for email list at our website. Thank you for that. We will give you free. E book work of fiction written by your host by the way if you do sign up for email list. We promised not to spam you. That takes way too much time. Would you send you periodic updates about the show. Please don't don't forget our spots from park. 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writer charlotte Landis wade ray bradbury helen keller Maureen charlotte mecklenburg library Scott douglas irene honeycutt shirley richard maureen maureen ryan john campbell queen city charlotte mecklenburg librarie ryan griffin leo tolstoy william stafford uae