20 Episode results for "Kinshasa"
Get Up And Dance To A Mini-Concert From Jupiter & Okwess
"This is the world cafe. I'm rina's i hope you are ready to move your body. Take a second. make some room for yourself. Make sure you're wearing uncomfortable clothes. Maybe because you are about to be treated to a mini concert recorded live by jupiter and saturn jupiter and are fronted by jupiter kanji. Who was born. In the democratic republic of congo and while his lyrics often tackle the serious issues facing that nation the music which blends range of congolese american and european influences is undeniably danceable and fun. Jupiter and requests. Have a brand new album coming out called nakazawa. They'll be performing songs from that album. And from their twenty eighteen album. Kim sonic live for the world cafe. This is jupiter and oh ques- to america to toe quiz from congo kinshasa. We have pinning music. Fog were cuff. it is on these are these are you. He's he's oh i did. You saw these are yoko. He's oh he's talking about shooter. Who were you your did mom and not being gonna will end up on know data on a don't now by own bytedance. Got dot four lockdown by head coach. Paul not Whoa report wanted county. Kabul john bought now parts. Did the i love them too. Feed the Loan would apply out the birthday. Would your files rodeo back. Doc you are listening to the world cafe. This is a mini concert with jupiter. And oh ques- post moved. Believe detroit do cold belt off back york I talk happiness ohio album. Don't brits base turnout post office. A row recorded live four world cafe. You just heard a mini concert from jupiter and their new album is called nakazawa. Big thank you to jupiter. Know oakley's now you can catch your breath. We'll be back in just a moment with more world cafe.
Chris Lema and Managed WooCommerce Hosting
"Over there. Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode one. Oh, one of how I built it today. I'm talking to my good friend and second repeat guest. Chris lem Chris gonna tell us all about how he and his team at lift web built the managed wound commerce platform over there and their goal was to make glue commerce and e commerce in general more accessible to people. So he's going to talk through his whole process as well. As some important information, you need to keep in mind. If your building a e commerce website with commerce or any other form, but we're really going to focus on blue commerce today. So that is the episode that we're gonna talk about today before we get started. I do want to tell you about our sponsors pantheon boot, you'll hear about a little bit later on in the show and. Ainu one lakh see so today is brought to you by a z from the team behind the events calendar. The most popular events plug in on WordPress. Luxy is the online events calendar that makes it easy to display and publisher events on any website. It was built with design in mind too, easily fit your website, no matter where it's built squarespace shop affi- and beyond. You'll hear a little bit more about Loxley later on in the show. So for now, let's get to it. Chris. How are you today? I'm doing great good to see you get to see too. I'm very excited for this episode. I'm also very excited because we are recording this right before we both leave for Kabul press, which is a fantastic event that I'm deeply looking forward to the best business conference in Kabo. May also be the only business conference in combo, but it's the best business conferencing cover. See I was about to agree with you assuming you're shopping at best business conference. So with the qualifier. It's one hundred percent true. But today, we're actually going to talk about your managed. Woo commerce hosting of from liquid web. Is that right? Cool. So I for those for those who don't know, why don't you? Let us know who you are in which do sure so. My name's Christina. I am the VP products over applic- web. And the majority of what I spend my time doing is doing product development and managing managing product. So that often ends up being focused in WordPress and move commerce. We spent the first year that I was here working on on commerce. And then from there building out on top of that the managed starting with WordPress. And then building on top of that the manage commerce offering the the dynamic is most people know what manage WordPress is because it's been around for nine years. Right. And so people have experienced that difference. If you go back in time, you remember back when if you were running WordPress on a regular shared host or someone rack space a manage and you called in and you had a problem there answer was threatening to give you more. Ram disk? Right. That was it. And you're like, no. But I'm time the application. They said, no. We don't pay the right now nine years later. Everybody has had an experience with a managed WordPress host where you call and you have a question, they know WordPress. So they can help you, and that's awesome. But if you put a plug in on top of WordPress, right? And you're like, oh, I use this classifies pug, and they're like, no, no, no, I I don't I don't get into the applications that you run onward pressed, I just go up to WordPress. And what's amazing is with more than three million commerce sites on top of WordPress? That was still the state of affairs. Right. And so you would have commerce store and something would be slow, and you would call and they'd be like, well, here's what we see at the WordPress. What do you see at the commerce? No, that's we don't get into plug. It's right. We just we're not. We're like is to come came. There's too many of them is too complicated. And so we said, let's build a dedicated solution that much like manage WordPress was differentiated from managed hosting. Let's differentiate manage commerce from minutes WordPress and really bring a lot of expertise performance. Optimization thinking about it differently for commerce stores into the market. Nice. Yeah. That's fantastic. Right. Because those who have been around a while like you said, we'll remember calling your hosting company and the answer that I got more often than not was oh, well, you know, word presses inefficient. So it's probably something in WordPress. And I'm like, well, that's probably not the case. And then they would ask. Well, do you need more ram or or more processing? Your. But yeah, but but the managed Whoo commerce platform is I think the first of its kind, right? And especially the way that you guys offer which comes with just a ton of really great tools. So. So as we get into kind of the research question here, I think the first thing I wanna hit is you mentioned that you had to build out managed WordPress hosting first. Right. So when you came to liquid web, there was no managed WordPress hosting and you couldn't just make the jump to manage commerce hosting. Why is that? Well, a lot of what happens when you start when you if you're building a managed application in a managed hosting company. Right. The managed hosting company pays attention to network and operating system, and disk and ram. The monitors are set for that. But what you do after that. If I went into my into our ops team and said, hey, tell me which customers on our cloud VPS are getting a ton of traffic, meaning look at the ingress routes for ADP, or as PS if I said show me the ones that are getting high traffic that are still HDP because I would like to offer them. A migraine over to they would be like, we don't we don't look at that. Why would we look at the Ingram slayer for ACP versus the PS traffic for sites that are running on their own boxes? We just we're the cloud service provider. So when you when you shift into applications, you have to go wall, I need to monitor different things I need to interact with the differently. I need my support to be different. So thankfully, the web is a ready clear. They were doing this. Right. They were like we're going to do manage WordPress because they had done a scan of all their accounts all their services and in gun. We have like thirty percent of our customers thirty percent of servers are hosting WordPress. Right. And so we should do this. And what what I added to the equation was. Yeah, you should. But after that, we should do something dedicated to commerce, and that's when people all star discussion heads going that sounds very interesting. What does that mean? How big could it be? What can we do? And how we do it. And. You know to your earlier point it is different. It's different than there's a unoppossed. Really good host hosts that I have no problem recommending who will allow you to deploy commerce like any other plugging right at one point when when blue host friends launched it, they said one touch point for commerce, and you're like it's one touch for every plug it. Are you click a button and it downloads? It right. And and so you're like, yeah. There's a lot of hosts and good hosts they can deploy comes. That's that's not different our competition. Never in my mind. Never was Kim STA. Dopey engine. Why we owe site ground blue hose dream host those were not paisley. Those are not my competition. Mike competition, we shop a fi and big commerce right hosted e commerce platforms, and when you compete at that level, you realize what those people are optimizing their system for high traffic load. Right. Whereas imagine imagine if you do if you go to regular WordPress shop, and you and you install commerce, a normative WordPress environment. Right. And we're talking about how you build. It. You start looking in the details in normal WordPress environment. If you're host, you're gonna want it highly cashable, right? So I think the default over Kinshasa is that you get to. Workers. And there's there's absolutely nothing wrong with that right to peach workers in order to understand what a Petri worker is. You'd think of it. As a cashier at McDonald's, a Burger King you walk in the door. There's a line of people, and you go how many cashiers do that? And to be workers to cashiers. Okay. Why only too? Well, it turns out if you're running WordPress a lot you're gonna put a cashing layer. So that most of the requests never hit peach p you whether you turn out full page cash. Right. That's normally we're timeout. So something like varnish or a cash plug in that that you're you want that. Hey, hit ratio to be ninety ninety five percent, which means only five percents coming through to your peach workers. So you can be highly scalable and have to peach workers, but try and do try and go to any of these places and run commerce, and you're going to quickly go way this. From wasn't really designed for commerce designed for WordPress. It was designed for high cash utilization, low PHP workers, and and in our world, we go. No, I need. I need a hundred peach workers, I need three hundred workers if you if you want a hundred PHP workers, right? And you go to one of those other places, you might be paying a thousand two thousand dollars a month. Right. If they even let you have it and ours is much lower. So. We when we were building this out. We had to go. Okay. I get everything right for WordPress. But now, how do you layer on top of that and still tweak it differently? So that you can get high high performance on a platform that yes, you use some cash we offer Barnish and we offer readiness for object storage. And yeah, there's ways do that. But most importantly, I think everything to be super fast. Right. So then I gotta pay attention to my infrastructure and shape it e-commerce logged in transactions not just non logged in page of us. Right. And that's the big difference. Right. Is that on on WordPress? I publish a post. It's highly unlikely that I'm going to change that post for a long time. So you can reasonably assume that people will just be the same copy. But if I'm buying something, I'm probably going to be logged in the experience is going to be different from another person who could be buying another thing. And you can't reasonably cash that information. And you start getting nuances, right? Like, let's say I want cash the product page 'cause you're like, it's the product pages everyone's gonna see the same. Yeah. But the product page has variations in there are changing imagery. And I don't want you to pick a blue shirt that size large when that large blue is no more immature. Right. So now, I'm dynamically changing that and so you're like, oh, yeah. This is this is going to be more complicated than just a regular, right? Right. Or or if you're know split testing crisis or something like that. If there's a lot of things that that are moving parts with an e commerce store. So so you went pretty deep. They're talking about like PHP workers and stuff like that. But you also include a lot of extra services for four. Woo commerce. Shop owners can you talk about like what the decision making was there? Like, I see you include guilt. You include glue and things like that. So so here's thing right, again, if you get to the point of saying, my customer, the competition half of that customer is buying shop affi- right now or they're buying big commerce right now, if you read let's say, you you go to Google Google commerce versus shopping fi or cars were shocked by review. Right. If you pull up the top ten links content articles. You're going to read those and you're going to hear a story. And it goes something like this. We'll commerce has these features shop Chevy has features commerce has this interaction show by this interaction. We'll congress has this. Oh, it's free. But you have to buy theme and you have to pay a couple of feature plug-ins shot vice cheap. Then you have to pay for features. You also gotta patrons fees, and you get to the almost end the annulment of the of the article they're about to tell you, and they go so basically ninety percents article, it's basically a top. And then you get the final paragraph, and it says something like, but with commerce you have to figure out your own hosting. You gotta become your own Deb ops. So you gotta hire people to manage it. You gotta support it especially in high traffic, you're gonna have your own engineering team that has to do that show unless you're developer. Right. We recommend that you choose show and that went, okay? So what we have to do is take that last paragraph out of the reviews. How do we build a product? How do we design a product where people no longer say? Oh, but also this worry about managing it hosting it configuring it getting opt. Mayes for traffic and performance when if I didn't have to do that that's managed commerce. Right. But then when you do that you then end up with but hold on a second. We know some things we know that. There is no native cart abandonment with commerce, which means shopping is gonna do it. And you're not going to do it that that's not right, or we know that shove you have to pay. You gotta go up the chain to get their advanced reporting. Right. You you're not gonna get it for twenty nine dollars. But eventually when you go up like, let's say you're paying to ninety nine you're going to get their advanced reporting. But their advanced pointing is not going to impact the performance of your store, and we all know, if you're running advanced reports in commerce, you're going to be using the same resources and doing the same stuff that your store uses to deliver value to customers, and that's gonna kill you too. So we went out into the deal glue. So that we could have a best in class analytics and reporting solution that didn't have performance impact on the store. Jill Abana car is also a SAS. So it doesn't affect the performance of the store a lot of people like open his cheaper, just go by this. And you go, right. But if that plug in does all the work on the same server. And it's pulling data and running queries, then your site slows down. So we start looking against some SAS partners to integrate so that we could keep your site going really fast speed and performance being the most important thing for new comer store. So we did that we turned around and went. Okay. What else? What else? Do we want to give these guys right? What else should be in in this package? And so we tested fifty different commerce themes, right and found the fastest right? The fast inched out in front of a couple of others by barely little. But Astra was the fastest performing theme for commerce, and you go. Okay. So Astra's free, which is awesome. But Astra has a prohibition, which is a little plug in that goes with it, and that opens up the of configuration commerce, and we went let's go do a deal and get Astra pro here for everybody. So everybody who signs up to our business plans, right? Which is the two fifty and up. Oh bait they get that. They get they get beaver builder too because Astra's great with page billers and of the page builders beaver builder is the one that is not only incredibly powerful, but also really good with caching. And so you go Kate. Let's get these together. And so we said, okay, we'll get you the page builder especially for your landing pages or product as we do custom will get you Astro for your overall theme to be fast. We'll get you. Reporting through glue, again, if you're in the business, and we'll get you a joke to do this stuff. And we'll get you a high amount of peach workers give you good amount of ram. So when you go look at the chart, and you see what you get for that price. Nobody who's running a real store has ever called him and said yob can I get a discount because it's kind of expensive. In fact, a majority of our customers who have come from other hosts have lowered their fees. They were paying twelve hundred dollars. And now seven fifty they were paying six hundred dollars and now to fifty right because we increase the ram or we increase peach be workers or we increase their feature set, and they didn't have to pay for some of those other plans, and they go, you're you're you're building the whole solution, and you go that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm building you is solution. I'm not just saying this is about route commerce, right? Most companies say, yeah, you can install commerce here. They're just like, yes, you can install the plug in our goal was to build a total solution. And so for all our business plan, which is the standard of the pro in the enterprise, we've created solution that comes with a whole bunch. And then of course, as we launched in the last thirty days, we said not everybody has an existing store. Not everybody is spending a thousand dollars or I mean yesterday, I was gonna call the guy who was spending up to one hundred thousand dollars a month in hosting who had just. Shifted over to an AWS plus racks base Ombo Rana down to thirty grand and Mike quote going out to there's gonna be something like six dollars, right? And we're we've looked at all the data. Right. And what what they're paying for is not always just the hosting. They're paying for the support or they're paying knowledge that can help them with this. They're paying for the ability to extend their service when they need to do stuff right dynamic adjustments. But they're paying a lot. And they're an almost everyone that comes over starts Inglis. That's because they're they're serious. Right. Four hundred five hundred concurrent users on the site at any given moment in time. Right. You're like, yeah. All of us would love to have stores that are that are running four five hundred people at the same time hitting store trying to buy stuff. There's a lot more people that are that are looking for starter plans. Right. And so the, you know, the last three days we've rolled out three of our four starter plans on the beginner plan. Now, we have the basic plan, and we have a marketplace ban the one that will come next week's drop shipping plan. And and those are all for people who are just getting started. Right. The beginner plan starts out at thirty nine dollars. And then the others. Ninety nine one twenty five one forty nine and the the dynamic various people who wanna get started. You tell you want to start with drop shipping. I wanna get you start with drug shipping. Right. Like, you're going to be ready to go. You want to start with the marketplace. I'm gonna give you the marketplace dough can plug in and we're going to help you get started though can't. So that you you can run a marketplace. Right. If you're a beginner, we wrote some additional code that locks in either how many skews you have right? So you can say, oh, I have only fifteen skews, but I want unamended orders or you can say I have I have you know, way more than fifteen skews. But I'm gonna tap it out it at one hundred and fifty dollars, right? And that lets us really constrain it, which allows us to shape how many resources we put against that. But you could start for thirty nine dollars. And at any point if you're like, oh, I wanna take off the constraint. Our basic plan is you know, we we done one man, right? And we'll take the constraints off, and you you shift into the basic nine dollars. And if you are making enough sales at thirty nine to say, I'm ready to take off constrains the ninety nine hundred problem. Right. So we started with the series fans because we started with serious stores and customers were running series stores. And then we said now, let's back up and fill in the bottom part of this to make sure that people who are just getting started having easy way to do that. Today's episode is brought to you by pantheon WordPress by point now in the new editor Gutenberg are coming. Are you prepared? Do you want to learn about the changes in advance pantheon has gathered resources to help you prepare including webinars? And tutorials pantheon also has made it easy end break to try Gutenberg with your site before the official launch visit pantheon dot I O slash Gutenberg. Let them know that how I built it sent you. And now back to the show you mentioned a lot of things here that really boil down to this. You are helping people make money, right? It's I've always said to people it's it's a little easier to sell like the price of an ecommerce store or a website that is directly making money because you could say right now, you're spending this to make this. I can help you make this if you just increase your spending a little bit, right? So like for the beginner if. Spending thirty nine bucks a month. They are if they make two three five sales or whatever that's justified. Right. And they're able to go to the next level where they they're getting more resources. More tools when you get into jilts jilts pricing model isn't credible. Right. Because the first twenty five recovered carts are free or something like that. And by that point, you're like, well, they've already recovered X amount of dollars for me. So it's worth paying for. So. You really are helping people get started with online with ecommerce. And then you're, you know, making them customers for life because you offer the best service. So that is exactly right. Our goal is is eventually to make sure that people think of commerce in the same way, they think about shopping fi today people go shopping thinking about it all and commerce. Oh, there's so much to figure out and we go. Well, actually, I think we can mitigate that. So there's not a lot fee to think about but once people start working with it. Right. You start realizing how I have some constraints in shop becomes world that I don't have the flexibility the open source the speed of customizing, something right is dramatically different. And so you get customers who are saying, oh, by the way on this one off inventory system. And you're like, yeah. There's a there's a plug in for that. That's great charm. I can do it or or. They go. Well, there's a part of that. But doesn't do all the rest of it open. It's open source. So you can you're developing can take it and layer on top and go. This is amazing that just two months development time, you go right? So the flexibility of commerce allows us to compete better than better with shop. Fine. If we can do the rest of our part, right, right? If we can get rid of the headaches around hosting and everything else, then we can do all that. And then where we really spend time is helping people speed up their stores. Optimizing making go faster. So that they make more money, right? We had a customer who is using commerce on AWS. They went crashed just straight up fellow ver and minutes after launch. And so I got a call about eight PM said some pm said can you get on a phone call with these guys because they want somehow I'm on yet. So we started the call eight just like this on zoom. Call and. I was on. And I told him I won't get off this call. So we have a plan. Right. So we were on the phone with until two in the morning. Right about that point. I pulled all their code down. We had done a scan over a bunch of stuff. So I could figure out what was going on. And I went, oh, this the problem is the problem this from development agency was on the call too. And they were like we're we're out of our league. We didn't know. We find it was ending wrong. They just admitted right? When we they designed the entire theme using ACS as their page builder. Right. And they hard coded things. So if you hard code something part of what that means is the full page won't load unless each component loads, but that component was tied to plug into was really poor performing. So when you turn off the poor performing in then the panel doesn't load if the panel doesn't lo the rest of patient load, your white screen, and you're like. Guys got like, there's a big problem. Right. So we say what you have you have a whole audience that is ready for this launch. Let's just go spin up a new store. A little pop up store just for this one product, and we'll get you making money, and then we'll turn around and will integrate back in and we'll do so in two hours, they generate an we did that we we help them spent get everything configured get running bring their product Matori over for that product line. We within forty eight hours. Right. I don't really know. You know, there's not a lot of agencies that would be like if you call me on Sunday, I can have a brand new site for that product line launched Tuesday night. Right. 'cause most are like if you call me on Sunday, we can have meetings this next week, and then we can deal, and then we can put out a bronze plan, and maybe three months, but these guys had an audience that was cute up ready to buy product. Right. So we did a pop up store got it up and the first two hours. Right. They did more revenue in two hours than they had done in their best month of the year last year Christmas. Well, now what we focused on was the engineering the infrastructure at the low level code that would make sure that they're page fast. When we first started working with their pages ruling in twenty eight seconds. I'm like, well, it doesn't matter if it goes down because even when it's it's not really up, right? Yeah. Right. And then got him. We got him down to one point seven seconds, right? And. It was fantastic. And then even even as we are doing I don't recommend anyone a while. We're doing it seem be some problem with the payment gateway. Right. And so people were queuing up and getting stuck right in that you can watch it in the Google links real time, we're watching it. And seeing does this choke point people are sitting at the checkout, and there's too many people at checkout concurrently? There's a problem there. And we started looking at the API calls to to pay out and going, oh, there's a problem. But it's on our sites. Let's switch the payment gateway. About standard where we just route them to pay pal making just check out there. We're not gonna use guy. We I'm not joking. We did the change in real time. Right. So I got a developer. Who's on the phone with me? And I'm like, okay. Install the standard. Okay. Get it configured. Okay. Believe it inactive. Okay. I haven't here. Now, a look at the product on their side. Tell me you look at the numbers, right? Where we at. Let's get to a point where it Suzanne for just a second. Okay. We went from eight hundred down to two hundred people concurrently on the checkout. Okay. Now Cois I'm gonna turn this off you turn it on and everyone will just move on with their car active straits, pay towel. Right. And they didn't not only the knowledge thing. All of a sudden you saw in realistic in real time. Right. You saw people are no longer choking up here, right checkout pages, not aggregating all these concurrent users. But also, right. Look at pay pound now just bringing in money, right? One over another after another after another good and the CEO companies like. D do you always do that? Like you have like. I've never seen that. I'm a cat. I don't I don't recommend changing payment gateway in the middle of a product launch. Right. But you had you had problem. We have to solve the problem. Because what you don't want is everyone to look back later and go that was a mistake. And we didn't we couldn't get that done. But lesson learned I guess, we'll learn for six months later for a next on showing. No there's money on the table right now. Right. That's that's an expensive lesson to learn especially one that you could fix in. If you can. Yeah. Well, so that was I mean, this is not a video podcast. But if you could see what I looked like while he was telling that story it was like the same. Look I had when watching like the last Jedi. I just like during the fight scene with Ray in Kylo, Ren. So that's an incredible story. And I haven't even gotten to the title question at we're we're we're coming up on time. But I for the title question. I wanna ask you something a little bit different. Because we got a lot of the the details for how you put together this hosting. If I want to build a fast site. How would you built that? Like, what would you recommend? I need for that to build a fast commerce site. Yes. So. Several several dynamics that are at play here. Right. First of all, you need image cashing in image, compression. So people will upload images that are way too big that they don't need. They're only gonna show six hundred pixels wide, and they upload a five Meg image. And you know, so you wanna compress your images you wanna use the CDN right for the non image files. Whether you're talking about your job script files, or if you have PDF files or anything else, you wanna be able to get those in the in the broadest and most distributed dynamic so that. Anyone anywhere in the world who pulls his is getting it from the edge rather than running all the way to your server, which allows you to have more transactions permanent on the server because they're not worried about doing other things. That's another piece. You wanna do you wanna do something? We call Russa's, prioritization, which is Luke over every single plug in and figure out if you need it or don't there's a lot of plug ins on sites that you just go. No, you don't need that. You don't need that. You don't need that you what you really wanna do is evaluate performance impact of any site. Which means you need to get good at testing. But you want to understand the performance impact of any plug in on site. But you also want to end the revenue implications on a site. If you have a pop up that is not super fast has a couple of shoes, etc. But it generates thirty percent lift on your revenue you keep that baby there. But if you have some that you like because you think is super cool. There's a little video of me that slides up in the transplant background, and I'm talking to my customer and you're like not as poor performing. No one's ever clicked. Right. You've even like an come here. Quick here to go to my that knowing that you have zero turns out, but I like it and. It's me talking and it feels like turn it off. Right. So the Ruth aspires -ation gets gets gone. What another thing we've seen there is plug ins that? You're you're using one feature on a plug in the has forty eight features. And yet, you gotta re you gotta load a bunch of job script every time that pays you got a load bunch of images and other other scripts in you're like, no this bad. Let's just take the one feature you really need and loaded into something like code snippets. So it does that one feature of that's again, a lot of mistakes that happen in store is built by someone who may not know how to write that line of code. So they just keep grabbing plugging off the show, and you're like note that suboptimal because you're you're causing the PHP engines of your server to do work to parse and process stuff that you don't even need because it's not a feature you're using. Then I'd say there's a whole bunch of. Either WordPress or commerce their settings and features that really you can turn off perf matters is a Plugin that I use often perf matters will let me quickly turn a bunch of these things off right like windows used to have a writer windows writer, which let you write blog posts from their desktop. There are there's Kobe's inward press to let you hook into that. If you don't have a windows computer at all, you're not likely to be writing your blog from there. And if that's not probably do earned that. All right. So so so part of what happens is you something like to close it off. But perpetrators also has each is like. Pre calling and professing sites and resources. Prefixing and working with a DSP fetching. So that's connecting the servers other places other domain names. So there's a lot you can optimize their. So that things move a little faster. And then having my weight theme, which we've talked about ready. From there. I think you're you're in a pretty good place to do the last step which is performance test over again. Right. 'cause as you performance, you're gonna find little things that you go what's going on here? And that's when you realize I need to up the Mayes XYZ. This episode is brought to you by locks your website need to calendar and locks is made up from the experts behind the events calendar on WordPress. Luxy is the platform agnostic events calendar, you can embed into any website with just a simple cut and paste locks. He makes it fun and easy to build a calendar. An advent with robust listings, it's free to build your calendar. And you only pay when you're ready to publish. I can't stress this enough. If you need an embedded events calendar. No matter what platform, you're using Luxy is the way to go. So you can check it out by going over to locks dot, I that's L O, X dot CO. And exclusively for how I built it listeners. You can use the code get lock see now for your first three months Bree, that's G E T L O X, I and W or your first three months or free. And now back to the show, you mentioned perf matters. That's wordpress. Plug in. I just picked up WPA rocket, which I think maybe does something similar do you have do you have a preference over the other? So I like I like to rocket a lot. On our particular platform because we're offering reticent because we're offering varnish, and because you know, weekly row in the couple of things. Some people go I don't think I need of Iraq to do that. But if you're not on our platform, and if you're just trying to get a site fast of your it can be an incredibly useful product to help you navigate through a couple of these different things. Right. Not not just one thing. Right. So yeah. You'd wanna look at a couple of these different tools to see what's right? But it it does some optimizations, and it also provides some cash and lets you connect to other solutions if you need to right. So there's a lot in there. That's very very powerful. Gotcha. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. I actually I was between the two and I saw your testimonial on the WB rocket page 'cause I do I have liquid web managed WordPress hosting. I don't have managed commerce hosting yet. So we can work on that. Well. Cool. So they'll be a bonus episode after this where we talk about that. But that's there's a lot of really great information in there. I tell if you are not on on liquid web hosting. Than you know. These are definitely some really good takeaways. We also talked a bit about your plans for the future. You mentioned that you're rolling out a drop shipping. The tier or level. I just spoke recently to Anton Crowley Crowley of from drop sip lifestyle that episodes actually coming out after this one launches, but drop shipping is a very interesting topic to me maybe in the last few minutes. Your plans for the future. Why did you choose job shipping as a specific level? Because when we talk about people who are getting started in in ecommerce, the two that are the hottest in two thousand eighteen predicted also be hot in two thousand nineteen right are drop shipping. And marketplace, it doesn't mean that people aren't going to do courses. It doesn't mean people aren't gonna do members from sites doesn't mean they're not going to do lots of other things. But the hot ones the ones that are tracking and people are searching for in Google trends, and the ones that people are looking at in other platforms like shop affi-, you look at these things and you just go. Yup. People people want this, right? One of the things that they have in common dropped shipping. And marketplace is. People don't have products. So when you don't have products, but you wanna get into ecommerce. What do you do? Well, you that other people busy the products, right or you other people create their stores in your store, and let them so their products prostrate to either way drug ship marketplace's there, so our drop shipping. Integration is with a product is SaaS product called shop master and most people I talked to have never heard of shot master, right? But again, the people aren't trying to our commerce people. So they're always talking about. Oh, I did a Google search for commerce, and drop shipping or commerce and all you express, and what are the plug ins air, and there's all drop ship and there's wound drop ship. I mean, there's a couple of those. None of them were doing what I would what I wanted this, right? And. That's okay. Let's go figure out what you know. What happens if I don't just want to be with all the express? What if I want to be with, you know, Amazon to or what if I want to be with, you know, other other pieces what if I have more than one website you start getting into these nuances, and you realize I need to need a better one. And of course, as you know, a big SAS fan. It's why we do so much. What we do the way we do it. And so we went looking for a drop shipping SAS that we could integrate with and that's shot masters. So we're very excited. Roll that out in the next couple of weeks. The cool will all be sure to try to pair the job shipping episode closely with this one. So that you kinda one two punch. That's your twenty nineteen plans. You can get the liquid web job shipping. Tear learn how job shipping works, and maybe have a lucrative twenty nineteen that is I mean, always it's a pleasure talking to you. But I do need to ask my favorite question. You provided a very good answer to this last time which. Do you have any trade secrets for us? Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it can give you a something something interesting. So so one of the things one things, we know. Right. When it comes to e commerce is that speed is everything performances everything in that space. One of the things we know is that when you're store takes more than two to two point seven seconds to load between pages people session length drops off by fifty percent, which means people will leave and that's our experience to right. When you go to website and you click and you have to wait a few seconds. And you click you have to eventually like forget this. So speeds big deal performance too. Big deal. It has direct impact on session linked which has direct impact on revenue, and what you really want to do is performance test your store and people go. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know how to do that. And I don't even know what test to create right? And what we've told people forever is. Hey has a liquid web will do that for you? Right. If you come over here, and you get, you know, especially with our business plans, we have a whole bunch of different tests. We've created and we can run your stuff through tests and tell you where there are things that are that. But my little insider's secret is not right. It's not a pitch for Gwen. My insider's secret is. I think those tests are public somewhere. I think all those tests that you can potentially load up at load impact and run on your own ink. They all exist somewhere publicly, so. A you can look around form or be you can Email me Chris at liquid dot com. And I can send you a link to the repo. So that if you're one of those people who goes, oh, I wanna tell my customers that I've performance their store. I want to know how to do this for my store. That's that's our little secret. I think they're public ready. And so we can help you get access to them. So that you can run your, wow. That is a great call to action and a great piece of advice. So you already told us, but where can people find you? I'm over at liquid web. So you can find me at Chris outlook web dot com. You can also find me blogging over liquor web dot com. I also have a blog over Chris dot com. And of course, the easiest way to reach me is on Twitter, which is at Chris limo. All right. Chris. It's always a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. All right. Take care. Bye. And thanks out there to everybody listening until next time get out there and build something. Thanks so much to crisper joining today. It is an absolute pleasure. Talking to him whenever I have the opportunity to do. So I appreciate everything talked about not just from a building a platform stand point. But good advice for any ecommerce store. Right. Talking about the importance of performance, and how you can improve performance and how he let us in on a little secret that droff shipping is very popular in twenty nineteen. I'm actually going to have a guest talking all about drop shipping. So definitely look for that in the future. Once again, thanks so much to our sponsors pantheon and see this show would not be possible without them. The question of the week for you is what are some ways you can improve the performance of your e commerce site. I just went through this myself by working my way through some performance issues over on creator courses, and I'm curious what are some ways that you can improve the performance of your e commerce site. Let me know on Twitter J Casablanca or Email me Joe at how I built dot it. If you want to join the conversation with other listeners, you can head over to how I built dot it slash Facebook. And join the community over there. You can find all of the show notes everything that we talked about at how I felt dot it slash one. Oh one. Joe head over to apple podcasts and leave us rating interview and helps people discover us. So I think that's everything. Thank you. Chris thanks to the sponsors. And thank you for listening until next time get out there and build something.
219: Thriving as an Introvert with Alie Harwood
"Welcome back to the hearts unleash. Podcast returning dreamers into doers. If you're ready to open your heart and take inspired action on your dreams. You are in the perfect place with wonderful people. Here's your host dreamer Educator and adventure abigail gas stuff all right my friends. Welcome to the podcast where we are turning dreamers into doers and i am here with alli hardwood a holistic wellness and competence coach. You guys this is going to be an interesting conversation. I already know it. So i'm just so excited to share that. But not only is she a wellness in confidence coach but also attornal student of life. She supports shy. Introverted women to break free from chronic overthinking south judgment and holding back so that they can finally feel at peace in their own mind body and express their true authentic south in the world. So as you guys can imagine why she is on. The hearts only podcast. I would love to welcome you. Allie thanks for joining us today. Thank you say to having a. Yeah so i can hardly wait to dive right into this. Introvert idea I m nodded introverts and for the most part. When i come across entrepreneurs they're usually extroverts or at least even the insurance that i know feel like they are forced to extroverts in order to get their name in their voice out into the world so i would love to talk about that but before we dive into that conversation. Tell us a little bit about yourself in how you got into what you got into really for me. My story strutted what. I wanted my teenage years in high school and like many of us time become more south aware and sons compare myself and it soon became clear to me that i was a little more quiet than others and i think that reading tending to shyness your can discuss and basically this just lead to subconscious belief that my personality and therefore really my sense of identity was not good enough because obviously we have this extroverted of you know that desired will end searchable unlike popular just useful to be speaking out to be kind of assess and to may be adventurous. Just kinda explicitly confident and served for me. I try to compensate for that. By targeting by buddy and trying to look as good as a kid and fortunately that led to an eating disorder. When i was fourteen. I mean luckily at that point i didn't i didn't get admitted anyway because the sort of that terrified may butts they. It was a very private struggle for me. So i never really got to the bottom of age. I just had this. Very turbulent relationship with with myself whole with my buddy with food and exercise up until my early twenties buried very self conscious like of young my appearance. What i said or didn't say d- do didn't do everything he hated talking about myself. And kind alternated between trying to be like others to fit in or queen To learn and so yeah looking back. I can see how i just you know had good memories in good friends and it was hard for me to relax and be myself. You know the turning point for me was really unexpected sir. In my third year of university. I went back hired for the summer and i read this inspiring true story online about a woman who discovers that. She has suppressed anger towards dad. And this really resonated with me and she basically goes through this forgiveness protests you Himself and i just knew i had to do that. So i i did that. And that was crowded but then the second plot was actually having the courage to tell my miandad face to face. You know how that experience not only my dad together just like rekindled. Our relationship also had a positive Effects on my other relationships and it was the first conscious experience where i was taking responsibility for my own. Wellbeing releasing myself that that block inspired wasn't even sure it had didn't know and it was really from that point. Now that i look back. I entered this journey of self discovery and self love grow freely which is just been my biggest drive ever since then so good so good. You're sharing so many gems that i wanna pause there for just a moment because i can only imagine how many of our listeners relates to so much of what you shared raden I wanted to point out when you're talking about being a teenager for all of us. At some point we conclude it's not safe to be me in all of us to different degrees different levels and end. It produces different identities and results. But i like the fact that it resulted in an eating disorder. Kind of a rejection of the south or needing to be different or like you said i controlled what i could like. I did want to control at least something right. And i really love the way that you mentioned the ideal persona rate of an extrovert in this and that in one a detriment that that can be and so i i really was You know i appreciate you sharing. I wanna talk a little bit about that dad stuff in a moment but wanted to ask about the impact of rejecting the software like the impact of feeling like. I'm not that i deal extrovert or not. That a deal type. And what the impact of that is in the relationship to the south maybe on the emotional level for me. I think the biggest emotion with shading feeding your shame of of just how i was and thinking that that was a weakness and Just no good in our case clean. Yeah yeah thank you. Thank you cause shame as such a such a slippery slope in what we don't talk about enough is that we all experienced it or feel it to our own capacities. Just thank you for pointing out that because my understanding is you. You help women with that. You help winning deal with that. And so but you had to deal with that on your own surfacing that suppressed anger specifically towards dad in in one. Kudos to you. Because i know the work that is in the courage that teams. Then i call those like you said i talk. My dad took responsibility for what. I was feeling in my experience of life and i call those sweaty conversations because usually sweat our way through them and and that it brought you closer so i acknowledge you because i am that. They're like so many listeners can look at. How am i upset with my parents. In what way my upset was made parents in one. Is there for me to explore and communicate and so is there anything you'd love to say directly to our listeners about that process or two maybe how can you can either encourage them in that or how. They concert that i did the most important realization for me. There was that am doing this for myself. I obviously have you know suppressed. Now that i become aware answer now have a choice. Do i want to carry on as normal and and just hold it inside me or do i want to do something about it. I'm really like i call it. Taking empowered responsibility if anyone can relate to the endgame particularity some kind of blaine. So what the process involved. He was firstly writing out a list of all the things that i was angry about. Says kind of just like knowledge that outlet. You know this was by writing. I did this. And then secondly i write all the same. He said i loved. Appreciate it about my dad and said this was anything that i'd like to apologize for. That was just such a healing process because it made me realize like of course. My dad's no patrick note. No natives and yeah it was just it was like a reframing notes instead of just only seen him in one way coast. It'll be sings in. Also i m be playing pie in this to you. Know just him because relationships are intimidating things. Yeah that was. That was the crisis for me. As and that's something that everyone can take on and i think that tho- those journaling prompster. Those writing prompts are so valuable and important. So i wonder what have you had to give up or like oh of a release in order to move on and have the life that you have now i would say this victim mindsets disempowered mindset of feeding sorry for myself Boy blaming other people are saying feel differently like saying the cycle of resistance and judgment because when we say when just basically reinforcing in creating more of that right as opposed to accepting like okay. This is the current situation. And you're coming to a place of acceptance obey. Because then you're going to move on but what i've found otherwise you just in this constant cycle of like feeling frustrated and judging yourself feeling shamed than and then feeling bad for feeding change pretty vicious i also holding back. Truth was bead one. I was very afraid. He actually seek that out loud comparison with other tico looking outside of myself so announces for approval and said the defection pot needing to look and be faked. Yes so much as to all that end while the victim mindset can murder any anyone's possibility or or the lane that they dream of living. Because i think that when we say the victim no matter what we do. If we're coming from that victim mentality things are always john to us or at us in it. You said about really being choice like there's not a lot of choice in that mindset and so thank you for sharing that in shining slight there and then also holding back in comparison and perfectionism and so holding back though especially the that you help women with their authenticity their voice and and being powerful. Tell us more about this introvert. In how like the ways that you have learned to accept an extension that yeah so the first thing is the most common misunderstandings is being equals being shy of having social anxiety or being answer show four like these kind of things and i know that i i also think was that light and that's why i never. I never used to say out loud. That that i must be injury. It was only yet just full. I did my urging costs that. I actually really discovered what it really means and so you tight as self. It's not it's definitely something to fate and the most common traits are really like internal processing so making sense of things privately often quite deeply in our minds. We love to reflect. Imagine analyze in danger you and then this kind of sensitivity to simulation environment so whether it's a lot of people movement noise lying energy These things they basically can drain ninety after says point blow quick quick given extra screen for extra security more they. They're gaining energy in that environment. And so yeah and so it makes sense that we have more sensitive to oba's information and we're taking long time to process and therefore we need time to to see her as well to make decisions but of course it is especially in a we are energy mood in kinshasa but in general the kind of coal trains and there have been some studies to shire kind of differences in britain's like extroverts being less sensitive to Need more to like field hockey whereas manger introverts that can be over stimulating. Another one Study showed that introverts have long been euro pathways. Say so. that's quite interesting tonight. But i always. I always like to emphasize that careful with any label that we give ourselves next because it's so easy to over identify the end then essentially. You're you're limiting yourself to a set of criteria. So yeah the the biggest thing. I loved When i'm helping women as to reading noted themselves so it is asking those self discovering question. Do you know what are my needs and my preference is what am i design. As what am i. Passion in values my strength and might other areas that i would like to heal In i'm junior being super honest with that because may be used kind of thought that your shoes in things because of other people save most acceptable thing to just really getting rid of old And coming back to what feels truly free. Yeah like lesser mentioned you to force the sensors acceptances like okay. So this is what feels true for me for now and may be sold that he's hot of your true essence but it can also change. You know we're always evolving so being open minded to that and then it's like from there you can then decide okay. What do i want to really embrace here. I'm what is it that i would like to develop. I love this year. You're walking us through so much in its soviet fall in. I wanna backtracks us a little bit. Because i really appreciate the way that you shifted the context of an introvert from shy or Boring or social anxiety or social antisocial over to reflective imaginative and allies in a calculated consider in process right. I was a teacher for three years in the also coach. And everything and you know just the different learning styles even Again i i also appreciate you on dropping in the aspect of not necessarily labeling right but just understanding that. We don't process a same way that some people do need to hear it kind of mentally chew on it or even emotionally be with it so then they can have come up with a response or you know any of that and then the sensitivity to stimuli. Because i i was imagining as you're sharing. How many of our listeners are probably heads. Bobbing up dowling. She knows that was an introvert. Really or i. I made my like identify that way. And and then the dreamed or and or limited energy limited capacity for the public setting. And i love what you said about the way that extroverts are actually energized by social interaction because that's true too and then just the way that you dropped in there like. There's nothing to fix here. I just appreciate that because hearts unleash and what we stand for is. There is nothing wrong with you. We've just seen condition in an opposite navy like an opposition with the way that we are in an internal natural state. The more we can shed who were not the more we can be who we are who we are as absolutely perfect. I just really appreciate the way that you're seeking into the hearts of our listeners. Who her getting full this every day. But that it's nice to hear some different perspectives. So thank you for them and then so you you work with women one on one and you have a program. It sounds like what you were saying. A moment ago about identifying needs and desires and our ssn really accepting ourselves. Sounds like that might be the work that you do with limit. Yes i can speak a bit more about. Yeah i was gonna say well. Tell us what it looks like to work with you in in what someone would expect in that process. Yes waste my my one to one trigger. Message is a three months one. And i really take a holistic approach to building confidence because i had a massive believer that every area via lives and evolve. Being is is can Old influences when another Jenny and we cover the first step. This is very reflective of mary. Touched your boss. Buying releasing suppressed emotions. And then we look at discovering. What feels true fee you and and really uncovering your mindset in your sense of identity is currently making that up so that's looking at your beliefs and you yourself told all the lanes of you identify it really cleaning up basically sake looking at the ones that savvy and realizing that actually you do get shoes. These you know you'll believe are not facts but what you choose to believe will be so that's kind of like the mindset reprogramming and then the next step is self love so all about in actually really making that practice which is of course an ongoing thing you know self love and compassion. The next step is then honoring your body just bringing strengthening that mind body connection and the physical self care and then so they're all kind of self fergus. And then sophisticated owning your voice so that you know that confidence when you're around other people the finance that then is connected to your purpose and you're kind of vision yoyo. Pretend show that's really the kind of That i think that i just so you know. Put together the speech for jenny and appreciate that. And i'm curious vow your ideal client and and the the ideal personality serve because when you specifically that question came up for me when you said owning your voice and really discovering and accepting your purposes that looks different for all of us and so what would you know someone who is already resonating with. How would they be able to identify that that. You're the coach for them. Yeah well i mean. I always say that i what quit shy introverted women. Because you know it's kind of the clearest seem to be identified with those words. Of course what i can relate to the myers but i think the most important thing is whether someone resonates with my message and the winter wax the way daring together because i never the i've had many stations wave extra beds. Who actually say while ex. I've also struggled with confidence. Speaking keying with self judgment and are very aware of course regardless of whether you're an intimate connection at you should still experience these struggles in just shows up in different ways. Oh maybe you manage it in different ways. Maybe the introvert is kind of mold. Proud to withdraw in whereas the extra is may be more predator kind of tribes covering up in some way so. Yeah i think it's more about you resonates with you. Yeah i love how you just pointed out the way that we cope differently or are we processed differently so so valuable to witness ourselves in our processing and is so if someone was really resonating with this and and really just want to explore working with you. Could they set up a sample call with you. Related to caller. What's the best way to reach you in and start that relationship. Yes i am for a complimentary coal which you're finding my website. Wealthed dot com. I'm also very active on my instagram. And i also have a private facebook. Great which is confident asia shrive. Yes server tribe please out head over there. Yeah cool and is there anything. You'd love to leave our listeners. With the hearts and community the the writer is this reminded that we are not limited to a set of labels and patents. We are multifaceted involving a We really get to choose who we want to be in how we see ourselves. I love that and just to jump in here like ride. That wave with you. it's so safe. It's so safe to be ourselves. And like i have really enjoyed the conversation because it. I can tally We all go through that phase of ownership which was actually kind of funny. 'cause you said i began the process like in my teens and that's true for i. Think for our generation. But i you know. It just amazes me because we're awakening so much sooner. That seems normal to me and to you and then i know fifty six year olds. Who still had wakened or still. Haven't done the self exploration process. Were really honest with themselves. So yes i remain a group and i will say people who are all to say that an eye is such a kind of a realizations. Wow i'm so grateful. I'm actually wearing avenue now. Speaking always i discovered this your full. Yes and so i. I'm just so grateful for that perspective to bring that today because this is so available in this day and age and it's wonderful to meet people who are awakening younger and younger and also honoring their gift and they're calling in their purpose younger in younger. Because i know that we can really turn the tide on living consciously and having conscious population not just in the community setting or the state or countrywide setting but globally and yes and we're closing those gaps. and and. yeah and you're calling in for like like across the world tillis. We're going again in the middle east. Yes and so. I really am presence. The global wave of transformation that we get to cost together. So i just wanted to thank you for being part of the hearts unleashed wave and also your wellness lay that you're causing in the world. It's matter so much. Think he's really enjoyed this. Yeah thank you in hearts. Thank you for being here to open your big hearts introverted extroverted however you've identified somewhere in the middle or on the spectrum. It does not matter but thank you for being here. Thank you for being you. Thank you for loving accepting in sharing yourself because here. The hearts podcast. We are turning. Dreamers into the hearts unleash podcast. We hope you found all the inspiration that you need to today and the use it to take the next inspired action on your dreams. Have you love the show shirt with a friend. We love spreading the love. The more information to listen more episodes or shop. Hearts unleashed visit us. At hearts unleashed dot com. See next time hearts
PODCAST: UN Catch-Up Dateline Geneva episode 3
"Hello and welcome to. Un catch datelined geneva a weekly review of international events that are making the headlines at the united nations. Thanks for listening. I'm your host daniel johnson and in today's show we'll be hearing about you. Rights chief michelle basch. Let's update to member states. On the situation in belarus also efforts to get aid into ethiopia tigray region and for the world's workers a warning from the international labor organization that covid nineteen impact on wages is only just getting started. That's all in the news bulletin coming right up. But first we're off to the democratic republic of the congo. Where we're going to find out about how you radio company is busy providing lifesaving and trusted information on cave nineteen to its many millions of listeners. Not just on the new corona virus in fact but on deadly ebola disease which is endemic in the country along with cholera measles and malaria. This is a massive task almost as fast as the country itself which is the size of western europe and home to the un peacekeeping mission moscow. But it's more urgent than ever as the country faces a new infection. Spike in all provinces to help understand how radio okapi is tackling the problem of rumors and misinformation. I spoke to the station's head of strategic communication and public information. Kristof billy iraq. I started by asking him for the latest news on covid nineteen india congo. Unfortunately for coffee we are now in a situation where received signal often increase of second wave of covid in most in kinshasa abbott also in khiva winning in most of the provinces of the dr congo is. Just you know is just coming back. We have to take or the measures of precaution. I must say that the situation is not the same. He in congo with lots of economic programs. Lots of problems of peace and security. So that was all you know. It's difficult in some of kinshasa to find to see some people who are wearing mass now but there is clearly a need given the alarming signal that we received to read sensitize. And that's what we have done since the biggest thing on the radio copy but we are going to talk about. That's absolutely unassured. Say that only you could give us an bit of insight into democratic republic of the congo. It's a vast country. So how do you go about tailoring. Your programming to the different needs of the country. How many transmitters do you have for example over there. we have forty transmitters. Radio copy is actually the the regio number one in the country lesson lesson kinshasa because they re some competition which is very good that very healthy but in the rest of the country out the regular number one we have relative weekly audience of twenty three million people forty transmitters in most of the provinces of the country and we are so developing some partnerships with local communities. That's a radio that the un regular was born in two thousand and twenty eight and our daily struggle is to provide credible and reliable information about all the country. And of course we broadcast in five languages french but also then gala league congo chiluba. And i must add a few languages in the recent to jewel and local program that we have put in. Place in the keyholes during the last ebola epidemics where we need to be able to speak to people because that's what it's about right is to speak to communities and we are so at some local languages like candy and we now get the feedback that you know that was extremely important to speak to people in context of pandemic because there is a lot of resistance. There were a lot of rumors that was true. Foible that's true for covid and that's always clear sec- t to speak to people and to be leeson's and you know that people even in country a huge country like congo. They are very demanding. If they don't like the radio program they would switch it off so we need to be a useful right. you're it's dna is really the focus on reliability and ability. It's great that you mentioned credibility because trust obviously is so important. Your listeners actually trust what you say and it reminds me of a conversation. I had with one of your colleagues reporters last year and she was saying that one of the things that people understand about capi is that the information is verified. So it's not going to be immediately perhaps available but it will take a little bit longer to verify. That really brings me to my question. How do you keep up with social media and misinformation that surrounds not only covid but ebola and all sorts of things you know. There's lots of unfounded information out there. So how'd you keep pace with it. Your question is at the heart of what we're doing because we are engaging the process of transforming radio copy in a beam india. It's a radio station. So we we manipulate twenty news twenty thirteen news every day. Some of them very sensitive the wields. Nbc news hour gusting on air. But we also want these news to be on the social media quickly because the situation the way to consume to access information go of changing very reputable articulating. The cds and we need to cope with that. We need to follow this process. I omitted to tell you that at the facebook page of radio. Capi is the biggest facebook. Beijing the congo as well so For us we have right now. Limited capacity in community management but for us the main things through our facebook page through twitter account that grandma to our website the website of frederick. He's very very followed. Not only in congo abroad among the jasper ryan. Those each support. You know again providing the right then verified and that's often enough you know when you have the credibility to ensure that rumors and fake news on note consider as credible who. Just jump in there quickly. How do you nip those rooms in the bud. I mean maybe give me some specific reactions and responses to confronting misinformation about not only about covert. Some of the the talk shows that you have. How do you directly. Stay in contact with your listener base. We have three main programs. The three most popular programs of friday okapi interactive. We allow the listeners from all the provinces of this huge country eighty times belgium. When you take a plane need to fly for three three hours to go on the other side so we get within one hour from calls from the east from the west from the north further south of the country. They often ask questions that we affront to against thought to ourselves. They often convey rumors and misinformation. And that's a very efficient way to ensure that the these misinformation on not circulating other. But that's not enough. Of course it's very important to listen to people to give them the opportunity to speak and to answer to them. But of course we also need to work at the same time on the facebook page social media. It's more important your rights for us to be credible than to be fast that being said you know we also need to fast just because if you are not fast you give the space for all the information to grow so we are currently reorganizing. Interupt okapi so that we can send notifications on the social media. We don't want to be in a position where we have to wait for the first ride. You'll news will turn to provide an impotent formation. We need to put on the website before. Thank you for that. That really is fascinating. Insight into how a traditional radio station is evolving to meet the needs of this fight against a misinformation. Just tell me why it could be harmful in the context. You know there were people who were dying because they were afraid of going to get help when your i mean i what i heard in congo during the latest abela. Apd makes sense inequality was was pretty much Than what i heard. When i was in liberia and sierra leone few years ago in west africa during the biggest crises there is during these time especially in areas without peace and security issues. Everything is integrated. If everything is meeks right you think that you need to provide the right information. So that pecorella just take the rights miserable not all style to the medical team. But it's more complex than that because clearly people don't want peace who don't want the disease. The outbreak to be stopped because it generates money or generates cowo- and discover scowl is actually good for their own private interest so that becomes extremely complex and i guess the right thing is to be able to reach people to reach the communities and the radio station of course is unique. Not the only one. But that's a unique tool and to do it. With right may sage at the right time using the right language and doing repetition radio is very important in africa and the regio podcast so can be sent on these platforms so there was some austerity waltz. The medical teams and that was extremely dangerous for the humanitarian work in the context of some points given insecurity and they were lots of challenges logistic. She's it's a huge country so the programs are incredible here and that's good to hear the local authorities i to say that the radio station was instrumental. It's not us who say that it's either them. I wasn't guten one in the northeast. That's in the northeast. And that's near baby in any you of on group idea for killing the population civilians. Other time you had a black. And you imagine of all of these interrogating and how it's difficult to fight against an outbreak into that and the the reason why we have created new studio in these northeast part of congo is because we were asked by the local authorities. Say we need radio copy to speak specifically to our population and convince our population. The people come to fight against buddha are not enemies because some spoils tell them that they are the enemies so it's very clear reminder. That radio broadcast is incredibly. If it's well done and if it's really targeting the right audience it's incredibly useful to fight spending mix that was. I just want to say that that was that was not the focus on that of fragile copyright guppies not congo to fight pandemics. But it's the what is interesting. How we we use this tool to also fight pandemics on on on on fighting On on sensitization but on education. Very last question to you christoph. It'd be really insightful. To understand how you personally and your team have coped with covid. I mean radio stations are less complicated than tv. That's for sure but still they need a certain minimum level of material gear to make things work. How did you cope with the restrictions placed on you because of covid like in. Many countries wasn't just new situation. Lots of fields lots of things. I tease lots of room. He didn't know where we would go. The long term consequences of that that at the time we have quietly knowledge of the beginning. Show remember well about these disease. We hut civil stuff that tested positive. We lost one colleague and we had no choice down We didn't want to stoke the right. You don't shut down the radio at at a time where people are at home and listen to radio and need the radio even more than usually we have to find the technical way to continue broadcasting without new stuff in the office and we managed each stuff manage to to present the news from home. We re recall the will sometimes live and we managed to maintain sensitization on coveyed in all of congo. I will news reliable because it's not because they could be that the program stock in terms of peace and security and we managed to keep our audience. That was great. That's not over now. We are not back to normal but of course we know now that we are able to continue broadcasting if everybody has to go back home crystal studio arrack from radio kathy in the democratic republic congo. Thank you for this insight. I thought i was busy until i just spoke to you so i will let you get on with your money. Various challenges and we look forward to speaking to you again. Look after yourself crystal. Billy iraq from radio copy and democratic republic of the congo. Now it's time for the news. Hundreds of people continue to be arrested every week during demonstrations in belarus what protesters have been systematically and violently dispersed you and human rights chief. Michelle bachelet said at the human rights council. Speaking on friday in geneva the high commissioner for human rights expressed deep concern about use of force violations by the security forces misbash bachelet who maintained that the situation in belarus had seen no improvement since protesters began contesting the result of presidential elections in august said that reportedly around one thousand people were arrested on the eighth of november and seven hundred on the fifteenth. She told member states. That allegations of injuries caused by crowd dispersal measures and of ill-treatment during arrests have continued to emerge and that at least four people had died. Numerous accounts is quite demonstrators. And passers-by being randomly chased kicked and severely beaten with batons during the dispersal rallies. We also have multiple and credible reports of people beaten by members of the security forces during and after the transport to police stations or detention centers if confirmed such incidents should constitute ill-treatment and in some cases may amount to torture in reply belarus's permanent representative to the geneva. Yuri umbrella. vich said that most people were continuing with their normal lives in the country and that the government was functioning as factories and offices. The un is doing its outmost to secure aid access to ethiopia's tigray region. It said on friday after a deal was struck to reach. Displaced civilians affected by weeks of fighting between federal and regional forces. The development comes. After an earlier announcement that the ethiopian government had authorized unimpeded sustained unsecure humanitarian access to reach those in need across areas now under control in the northeast of the country in geneva u n refugee agency. Spokesperson baba balak said that more than forty seven thousand ethiopian. Refugee arrivals had reached sudan. So far with moore expected but they're still concerned for tens of thousands of airtran refugees. Still inside tigray. Here's well food program spokesperson thompson ferry. Wfp's priority is to locate some of the fifty thousand eritrean refugees who before the conflict received food assistance in four camps in tigray. It is possible that some may have led by now in such of seventy. The impact of the conflict on civilians is also a major worry amid warnings from the world health organization. Who not the worsening of the covid nineteen pandemic. It was to be expected along with injuries. Malnutrition communicable diseases. Such as malaria finally global pressure on wages from covid nineteen will not stop with the arrival of a vaccine. The head of the international labor is ation ilo has warned ilo director-general guy. Ryder was speaking at the launch of the bodies flagship global wage report which is published every two years it showed how the pandemic had or reversed a trend of rising wages across the world hitting women workers and the low paid hardest. It's going to be a long road back. And i think it's going to be turbulent and it's going to be hard. Mr rider told journalists except china which was bouncing back remarkably quickly. According to the un data most of the world would take a considerable period of time to get back to where it was before the pandemic and this had delta extraordinary blow to the world of work almost overnight. They ilo chief said on wednesday. He explained that there was at least a strong likelihood that as wade subsidies and government interventions are reduced as they will be over time that we are likely to face continued downward pressure on wages. According to those report after four years when wages grew on average by nine point four two nine point nine percent annually in advanced g twenty economies and three point five to four point five percent in emerging twenty economies wage growth slowed or reversed in two thirds of countries. So that was the new. So let's wrap this up but not before have heard from our guests salons tailgate got as and alford yellow from the un information. Service here in geneva solange to you i. What are your thoughts then on what christoph had to say about trust building the need to really fight this misinformation scourge that is so prevalent and preventing people from getting the right information. Well hi daniel. Hi everybody. I like very much. So when christopher said that during the last ebola crisis he heard similar things from ecuador tool sierra leone. Liberia i mean. This is something that we're living also now with the covid. The virus is everywhere but the misinformation is everywhere. Also it reminds me of the stories. We deal with a eunice being the us information service and there are lots of them around the world. Sorry for the acronyms listeners. Thank you yeah. The story was in and cardona the director of unicef. You already thank you ted. That he loved to listen. Radio okapi because the radio links latin and african read. This is exactly what i think. We need to build britsh within cultures and they did use in music. To safety belies. The local populations in each language in very much languages to says he believes about khalid and it works because music is a universal language. That reminds me about another story which you reported on this year. Solange from bolivia. And this time you highlighted the work of a young rapper. Kool crusoe who is in alto which is a city of three thousand meters above lopez and he was a rapper who used to earn his living down in the city but covy put a stop to all of that and he had to turn to recycling and earning pennies. I think really to get by and he really was struggling. But then he got into an initiative with the information service down there. Your and karen dana. Sorry for the pronunciation being quarantine. He used music there to get in touch with young people and explained about covert and ready to express solidarity. Maybe you could put some flesh on that story for me. You pronounce your thin and that this is story was powerful because gristle is a young khabour and he worked with un team in bolivia and it was really powerful because he used he book to civilize about and here a game it. Bob is a would like to say it exists everywhere not only one country so we it again. If misinformation is a global issue then the answer is also global and this is what the job was very effective because he lives there he suffered there. He was without work. I mean he needed to survive like in when kristoff talk about the local populations in in in africa. He said i mean varies economic issues. We we cannot just think okay. Putin moscow do this. And that i mean. They have really economic problems in greece. Even with they all his problems he wanted to help. He wanted to be part of the solution singing and doing what he knows to do. Thank you that salons and quickly to al. If i may it would be interesting to hear your insight because you and i together here. It your engine. We've covered the ebola crisis not only in the democratic republic of the congo but there are so many similarities. Aren't there between the approach to how you tackle something as deadly as ebola as you might have also approached covert and the question of trust is one. That's really important to getting the trust of the communities and overcoming stigma. What do you think about what kristof said any. Did that bring up any memories of al coverage of ebola in the past there essential. Thank you salons years. That's right it's not enough to have a vaccine and regarding what is the said. It's not enough to have a vaccine the disease you have also the bought of the community or your health interventions won't work and i think won't health organization has this time in a gang press conference over the years in geneva this also cutting off respecting traditional beliefs in light of the funeral practice. That transmitted disease after munoz became infect by touching the defendant. So it's this kind of things can only be addressed by people who have the trust of the community. And i want to complete them by evoking some listen from ebola in west africa where the community engagement was one of the key to stop the spread of disease and in the fight against covid nineteen it highlights importance of building trust working with the healthcare workers and communities thank you. I know that is something that all of the humanitarian coordinators of the united nations all humanitarian 's would echo because one of the things they say to us when we talk to them is. Oh my goodness got so many meetings. I can't get into the field enough because that's where you stay in contact with people on. That's where you really understand what the needs are on the ground so that issue of trust is obviously very difficult to define. But it's something that you can't do without on. I think salons and alpha unless you have anything else to say that brings us to the end of our first. Un catch-up datelined geneva. I don't think we will take this forward listeners. If your happy with this we would love to hear from you at n geneva. Just get in touch with information service. And maybe you have a store that you'd like to share because we'd like to hear from you so just remains for me to thank salaj tailgate gutters and alfred yellow from geneva. My name is daniel johnson until next time.
News in Brief 16 June 2021
"This is the news in brief from the united nations migrants. Working away from their families made significant sacrifices to send almost as much money home last year as they did before covid. Un chief antonio guitarist said on wednesday warning that now is not the time for countries to withdraw their support to these key workers the secretary-general's message to mark the international day of family. Remittances comes as world. Data showed that cash wired home from migrants in wealthy countries. Dropped only one point six percent in two thousand and twenty from twelve months earlier to five hundred and forty billion dollars migrants. Put their families. I by buying lessened dipping into their savings to send money to relatives. Mr cherish said financial support from host countries also played its part and it must continue insisted urging all countries to include migrant workers in the covid nineteen vaccination plans. They should also aim to reduce the costs of sending remittances to as close to zero was possible in line with the twenty thirty agenda for sustainable development he said to the democratic republic of the congo. Now where the. Un on wednesday condemned a spike in hate speech that looked to incite ethnic division. In several parts of the country been to cater represents the un secretary general india congo touched all political and community leaders to abstain from using discriminatory and provocative language at a time of exceptional instability in eastern provinces. She said hate speech was prevalent in the us and cheery but also in katanga mind dombi and even in the capital kinshasa incitement to hate violence and conflict fronts contrary to international on congolese michaela noted before urging the country's parliament to adopt taper posed. Bill against travel isn't racism and xenophobia. Finally an appeal on wednesday from the secretary general to protect land from russian and unsustainable development and help vulnerable communities adapt to climate change in his message marking the world day to combat desertification and drought antonio guiterrez said that land degradation from climate change and the expansion of agriculture cities and infrastructure have undermined the wellbeing of three point two billion people in addition to the harm done to the planet's biodiversity. The un chief insisted that land degradation had also allowed infectious diseases to emerge such as covid nineteen to counter. This greater efforts are needed to promote healthy land. He said the benefits include removing carbon from the atmosphere and the generation of an extra one point four trillion dollars in agricultural production each year. The best part is that land. Restoration is simple inexpensive and accessible to all according to the un secretary general. He said that it was one of the best ways of accelerating progress towards the sustainable development goals. Daniel johnson un news.
Rebroadcast - #93: What if you witnessed the limits of human suffering?
"Presentation of the Audio podcast. This is actually happening. On. Ninety three Have you witnessed? Suffering I grew up in Dubai for much of my childhood till I was ten years old and Dubai back then was just desert. It was a shakes guest house and this huge concrete apartment block in a sea of sand. Device so hot most of the year that you can't go out until unless your parents take you out so much of life with indoors, and that's still true now and as a child, you just have less agency. So I spent a lot of time by myself reading. Writing playing. Inventing Games. And I think that's translated into a lot of what I do now which is writing? It's almost necessary to be able to to right to be able to spend those long periods of time alone. At the age of ten, I went to boarding school in India. My formative years. Were India, and so that was in this secluded, born in school in the middle of nowhere founded by philosopher an Indian philosopher Krishnamurti. Philosophies! non-competition and we didn't have exams. We even have uniforms. It was very sort of freethinking school. We spent four months in science class in sixth grade, trying to figure out how to calculate the circumference of the earth, and we weren't allowed to look in the textbooks or see how the Greek or how the Egyptians in it, and that was the assignment, and of course people cheated. Of course, people looked of course, some of US didn't and of course, most of us didn't figure out how did how to get it done, but it taught us does stay with a problem for four months, and that self is a little gift. My parents are Indian. They moved to Dubai before I was born. They were financial or economic migrants. Seeking a better life and I think for most of my life. They trained me in the same way the they wanted me to seek out a better life for myself, so they would always points to Europe and America as places I should want to live in. Be To better my life in the way they better. I did a year of university in India. And Engineering School hopelessly oppressive and I had a friend who went to Caltech in California and he he kept writing me and saying man. This is amazing. You should come out here and so I applied. I didn't know what I was doing. I just applied to sort of top ten us. News rankings stopped ten colleges and I got into yield, so that's where I went. Indian education often tries to put you in buckets and the American liberal arts system is. Really Amazing, you don't even have to choose your major to you're in your third year. Sometimes for me was like Manna from heaven or something just total totally locked out when I remember getting accepted acceptance letter thinking why told only? People from certain class of the world, class of society got to go to these places, and I was like well. It's happening to me. Tried courses in photography and cognitive science and philosophy. History of science anthropology anything that I could find that was different from the engineering pigeonholed that I had been put into in India, and eventually I fell back to mathematics to pure mathematics. I studied algebra abstract Algebra. It's an incredibly beautiful world mathematics, and it's perfect. It's a deductive. Everything is true, but one course. That I took. In creative writing creative writing seminar totally changed my life. I think I think there was. I remember walking down the street. My best friend and saying I found what I WANNA do. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I WANNA, write. I'm studying met. I have no idea I'm gonNA make that leap. Senior Year in college I was in the dining hall at Yale and I remember opening up a New York. Times newspaper and I was just flipping through was lunchtime. I probably late for class or something and. And this little article at the bottom of the middle page of the newspaper caught my eye, and it was a tiny tiny article. That said four million people had died in Congo. And it didn't make any sense to me because our peace was so small, it just a couple of hundred words, and the vents was talking about were so huge. War conflict millions of people dead I thought a couple of people dying on the front page. And here is the people are fit into this tiny piece. And from there I began to research and realize that there are these places in the world were. Immense events are happening affecting the lives of millions of people in tumultous tragic ways. History is happening in these places human history unfolding on massive scales. And very few people are reporting on them. Those, a professor math professor was really important to sort of kind of a legend in mathematics. Name is Serge Lang I remember walking into his office with all these math textbooks that he'd given me for free or Meth experts that he'd written. He understood from the moment I walked in. That this, was it for me? I was not going to do math, and he said what happened and I said I'm going. I'm leaving I'm going to travel. I'm going to be a journalist. And he was like going where I set to Congo and he said are typically the fool. and. He was supportive and. I didn't understand what I was going out setting out to do but I think he understood more than I did at that point where that journey might lead me. Another person at Yale who was important to me was a cashier. And I went to be my final bill. Final? and. The cashier was African. Where you from, and she said year, which is the old name for Congo and I? Said oh I might go there and she said Oh. You can't just go there. You stupid yield kids. You think you can do anything you want. You Get robbed, raped or killed. Like will you help me? And she said no way no way in Hell. This is wrong for you. Don't do it and I found out that she worked a second job at a new haven. Parking, lot and so every night I would go and hang out with her, and I by her Dunkin donuts shakes, and we talk, and she told me her family pictures, and she'd come with a new hairdo and see. How do I look and so we began to become friends, and finally she said okay. I will introduce you to my inlaws in Kinshasa, and you can stay with them. And that was my brick. Shortly afterwards. I ended up buying one way ticket to Contessa in Congo. As, a fresh graduate, twenty two years old, no journalistic training. Only a math degree. Never written for publication my life, but with this idea that whatever I would find in this place should be news, and there were stories here that I needed to find. That's how I should've launched myself into this whole life and this whole career. The family whom I never met before the in laws of the cashier here. Where at the airport to meet me. I remember the asked me. How long are you going to be here and I didn't know? So I. my phone was stolen base street boy. And I tried to recover the phone. That led me to this abandoned cemetery. That's been turned into a garbage dump. And where abandoned children live children? These children are abandoned by their families often because they can't afford to raise them and so. What happens in many cases, the child was taken to church. Fake Church EVANGELISTA ANJELICA church. Were there somehow told that they're being possessed by the devil, and there's a very. Tormented. Ritual. Of Breaking the child away from the family psychologically, and the child is abandoned out. On the streets and they know they shouldn't come back. so I went searching for the street boy. in in the cemetery and I hung out with them for night. It was That was one of my first experiences off the city with these kids. Who Walk Around at night, and during the day to sleep in Kinshasa loner like forty thousand kids like this. And in that cemetery I don't know they're all hiding. These caucuses abandoned cars. Often, they're described in very tragic terms that NGOs trying to help them troops trying to help them older and good work, but there described as sort of. These tragedies in society and my night with them. Was One of childish pleasure I felt this was what all of us would be doing. If we didn't have parents to force us to go to school, these kids were. Drinking alcohol having, sex smoking up. And exploring the city on store and motorcycles, feeling reckless free. And we we ended up going to stadium and calling out into the darkness. Games childish. Games I didn't get my phone back. I think it was God, but I got this priceless experience with these kids. Shortly, after that I was. Picking up a taxi somewhere in the city. Share taxi in contrast, so I couldn't afford these four taxis and I got into one of these share taxis. I ended up in. The backseat in the middle. The taxi went further down. Pick someone else had people on either side of me in the back seat, there was someone in the front seat. And there was a driver. They were taking me down the city. They were just talking to me and join me out at one point I said Oh. Those people in the Ministry of Immigration which we passed I was like Oh. They're all thieves. And the guy turned to me and said. WHO YOU CALLING THIEVES! And I send something, and I, said. It's okay I'll get off and they were like. No, it's okay. We're just a little further down I. Like I think I wanNA. Get down here and they pushed me back. the two guys in front, helped my legs, and the guys behind me. Pin Me Down by the shoulder guy next to me pulled out a gun. Rejected the magazine showed me shiny new bullets. Put it back, cocked the gun and put it to my head and said give me everything you've got. To be carrying cash because they trusted no one I trust. The House I was staying in which was in the slum. In Kinshasa was safe. People were coming in and out of the house all the time so I had all my money with me like two thousand, five hundred dollars or something, and so they got all of that and I begged them to keep giving back my phone. Which I didn't want to lose for a second time as I told him. This and I'm a journalist. Means of livelihood. All contacts contacted that phone are the way I earned my living. Don't take that for me. Take the money. They took the money and they let me give my phone. After that I didn't know if I could stay and. I was getting desperate. I had no way of making a living so I was in this desperate position. The relationship with my family was also getting kind of tense and. I met this journalists who told me the EP had just quit. The Associated Press correspondent had just quit and the cut the position. And, so he said Hey, maybe the looking for someone so I wrote to the AP editor on Sunday afternoon from an Internet cafe from Cyber Caffeine just. and. Twenty minutes later. The Communists, who the hell are you? What the hell are you doing trusted? Comes here, and so we got talking and and he said I don't I. Don't have any reason to disbelieve. You're this kid who's going to yield. Who studied math was come here like I believe anything in your CV. This has never happened I mean I trust you just like that? So we're going to put you in probation I need to. You need to work with us for a while before I can trust you, and so I began to file stories for the Associated Press for ten cents, a word, ten cents a word that they published another ten cents a word that I wrote No insurance, no! All expenses would remind phone calls transport. Everything was my own expense. But I hear I was. This is my chance. I began hustling. There was a spate of plane crashes in the jungle, which I heard on the radio, and so those became my first news stories. Those plane crashes were kind of my early lifeline. Struggle in Kinshasa begin clearly me that I would have to get out and start exploring the country. Start finding stories elsewhere, and I went on these mad adventures I went up the Congo River with an Indian businessman told me there was a story on this piece of land. We never made it to the barge that we were on broke down because stuck somewhere in the middle of the jungle or sticking to a pygmy tribe that had given away huge swaths of forest rainforest logging companies in exchange for sex assault. And a couple of chickens. The were pygmy tribe that used to work on rubber plantations, and they had forgotten how to extract salt from the trees. From the forest and so salt had become this incredibly precious commodity to them. They didn't know that was worth a couple of cents. In the world outside, and they had very little sense of how easily man can now destroy forest or rainforest, and when I talked to the big michief. Oh, no, the brain force to force never ends. There's no way they could cut down all these trees, and of course the long companies. That's exactly what they were doing. And, so that story about this pygmy tribe became one of the stories that. Kind, got an and the editors really liked it, and it won an award leader. That was the first story for me. It was totally. In a position of desperation I had gone out. Spend a lot of money to guard with his Indian businessmen. We hadn't found the story and I was stuck in the middle of the jungle. The editor was calling me and saying hey, we. You're missing all these stories. And just so, what are you doing when you coming back and I was really desperate and here I found this pygmy tribe, and they became story after that the kind of begin to finance some of my expenses begin to allow me to travel, and that's kind of how I grew out. Found out into the country began to report on the war. There which is six hundred miles away from Kinshasa. In the east go to these places where there were hundreds of thousands of people displaced where there were mass graves, massacres warlords who'd been operating for a decade. Congo's war has now now killed more than six million people apparently and. It is the worst war in the world. Since World War Two. Despite this, there isn't that much. That is said about it. We don't hear that much about it in the news. Like a wound on our earth, we just sort of let this war continue It's almost like we don't want to look at it because we know how intertwined this war is. With Modern Society Congo is a place that has been pillaged again and again. When. Automobiles were invented and mass produced. They needed rubber for car tires and they went to Congo to get rubber. The, Belgians killed. I think half Congress population. They would cut off people's hands if they didn't produce enough rubber. Then there was the electrical electric revolution, and the world needed copper and Congo copper one of the largest copper deposits in the world again the wars for the Western powers would. Try to have one of the copper. Rich provinces secede from the rest of the country led to civil war Congo's independence hero patriots. Mama was killed to produce copper wires for the world, then the digital revolution and we need electric circuits. The metal in those circuits is made of. Tin And Congo has. And so again, the world went to Congo. Supporting militiamen and warlords Congo's has diamonds and gold, which perennially valuable, and now with the cellular phone revolution, the World Needs Tantalum and Congo has dental and one of the largest deposits in the world. People say like half of the world's known deposits are sitting in Congo so again. These kids are going to mind. These are stories began to report on watching. Kids carry fifty kilos of Tantalum Coltan. IS THE OR And they would carry fifty kills on their back, and I would walking through the forest night. See Graves of these children who died from exhaustion. These are the sorts of connections between the world and Congo and I think maybe partly because of that. It's too painful to look at this wound. This! Conflict that we are in part responsible for creating whose war we feed to our consumption. It became really hard for me when I came back from Congo I was in San Francisco Forbid. Became really hard for me to just sit in San Francisco and look at everything around me and benign way I every every that I saw I wondered whether metal was coming from every we'll that I saw I wonder whether rubber was coming from work to get it, it's. Very tiring exhausting way to live. Even in Kinshasa watching people. Struggle for basic life, basic necessities and kind of had to build a wall around myself to of keep experiencing all these things once I came out of Congo. That wall sort of fell away. I felt the enormity of all the things that I'd seen. That seems so distant so remote and yet they weren't. There were so connected to our world. So, after coming to San Francisco worked as a consultant for a bit. By that point I wanted to write a book about everything that happened in Congo where everything that I've seen everything that I had experienced. I was offered this little gig in Rwanda to teach some journalists. So I went to Rwanda to write this book, about Congo, and I was offered this little Gig to teach Rwanda journalists and NGO. As I was teaching them very quickly became apparent that. These journalists were working incredibly repressive conditions. One of them had been beaten into a coma. For bringing up the to the press in front of the President of the press conference, another girl was with. And she'd been imprisoned after criticizing the government and did not let her sleep. They would drag her from room to room. And suddenly I was thinking Oh my God. What is going on here like Rwanda. Everything I'd heard about wonder was telling me. We're seeing wonder. Was the country making great progress? Improving by every measure and was safe was calm. The economy was growing and here suddenly these students opened up this other side of society for me in which people were living in a great deal of fear. So I. Wonder Wonder to write a book. I want to write some novels I want do other stuff. I'm reading this book online I want to move to other things. So I wasn't to uncover anything. I happen to be around these students who were incredibly brave to stand up to power. To try to expose what the government was doing. I went to Rwanda in two thousand nine, so was fifteen years after the genocide in Rwanda, in which nearly a million people were killed in one hundred days. So was the rate of killing even faster than the Holocaust the genocide killed nearly a million people mostly to sees the minority in Rwanda, and the Hutu had been ruling until then for about thirty forty years. Wonder was a Belgian colony, and when colonialism ended, it was a WHO's so took power. Who's what happened? In One? Thousand nine hundred was that there were a group of people who were living in exile. Who? Wanted to come back, but the Hutu government at that time said no Rwanda's wonderful, and so these two TSE's. Who've been raised and brought up in exile, yearning for their country yearning to be able to live in their country I've been taught that the purpose in life. was to get back their country. They invaded wonder from Uganda and that started off this four year conflict that culminated in genocide. In which the Hutus felt. Or their narrative lease was that if we don't exterminate. The to? Then they're going to press again and there were a whole set of narratives to justify what they were doing. The end of the genocide, this tube see group that invaded headed by your general Polka gummy. Took power. So in the middle of the genocide, Polka Gami the thousand forces. Attacked a weakened government government in many ways was weakened by this attempt to exterminate the two groups. There were spread thin. The Tutti group that invaded were militarily very capable, and they won the war. Supporter me the Tuzi. Leader who invaded the country took over the country. Once He. Gained power promised an inclusive. Democracy equality of progress, initially, I think the world was willing to give him. Leeway and because of what had happened enormity of the genocide. Who knows how to rebuild the country after genocide, you know, how do you? How do you even begin? The world just wanted to help. And, he got a lot of help. But in hindsight, he got a lot of aid military support for an expertise whatever he wanted money, and also the world overlooked summa his crimes. Kagami essentially saw that he could get away with mass murder. He's this evidence that he's killed. Tens or hundreds of thousands of people mostly Hutu. So it's a very complicated peer. It's hard even to investigate it now. Because independent research is not allowed about that period, because it's so important to the. POLKA gummy its narrative that he ended the genocide that he saved the two. And that this is, he's the legitimate leader of this new wonder so focused. On winning, the war became president took over the country. has been ruling ever since. And I understand the world wanted to see some of hope in that time, some figure of goodness and all evil, but over time it is a -tarian dictatorial tendencies have become more and more apparent. The press destroyed institutions like the judiciary, the parliament to concentrate power in his office in his person, and he is the old powerful figure in Rwanda today. And when I arrived in in Rwanda in two thousand and nine, that was when the free press journalists were on their last legs. Somehow the people in my class were the last journalists who dare to be independent dared to stand up to the government, talking about some of these massacres that nobody dared speak about talking about. Government corruption that nobody dared. Speak About and I sort of inherited the classroom full. These brave Rwandans who saw that. Their country was heading in a very dangerous direction. One of my Rwandan journalism students. Began to be pursued by the government i. He fled. He was tracked down. There was nowhere else to go on my house. He was hiding in my house, and then eventually I helped him flee the country, and I was so moved by what happened to him, and I wanted to write about it, so began to take notes for a story about a magazine piece or something. Seventy pages than I realized that this was something greater than a story. It was a book, and so I needed to understand the country more completely I needed a research. What was going on, and that's when I began to. Actively. Investigate the one country how the control is achieved. I began to explore and understand investigate. What was happening in the country, but the book was always focusing on this on the students in my class. Scoop about a dozen journalists who might trained none of them were practising. One of the colleague opines shot dead. On the day. He criticized President to women were sent to prison for many years for insulting. The president to others fled the country fearing for their lives. Others joined the presidential propaganda team so through the story of the. Destruction of this class of journalists. How journalists when they began to be began to scream. because. They felt that there was no-one listening to them. They said if I can't speak. I will scream and that only. worsened the repression heightened until everyone was silenced, and now the country those the harmony and you go and ask people questions, and you will get remarkably consistent and coherent responses from them, too many people that might sound like the truth, but editorship when everyone is saying the same thing. Speaks to something that has been lost something that has been relegated, and all of that turned into this examination of twenty-first-century dictatorship. I had to come to a point. Why asked myself? Why am I writing? This book I'm writing it because I care for these students, I really admire them. Care for these journalists. Are Remarkable individuals and I want to make sure. That their work is not forgotten as soon as a journalist disappears skilled. They're seen as enemies of the state. Nobody talks about them. And so the book in some way puts on the record. Who they are what they did. And what they stood for. All the dealerships there they have shiny building skyscrapers. Nice roads are hospitals at work, but of course. If you criticize the president, you lose everything over time. These leaders destroy institution's democratic institutions that. Would, assure stability. But that also means that these leaders have to share power with those institutions, and that's something you don't want to do, and so afterwards after they're gone, very often is a great violence breaks out, and this is the situation, unfortunately that one does living in today, and that these journalists who I was training. were. Aware of and we're trying to counter. Speak up against and. They were remarkable remarkable individuals such a privilege to watch them at work I. Don't know if I would have been brave. As brave as them to challenge such power. Knowing that my life, my family's lives could be a danger. The free press was destroyed in the twenty ten presidential elections when that elections happened by then around then basically, the press was silenced, and everyone was speaking up in favor of gummy. Journalists told me the people there were thousands of homeless people are in the countryside. And I went out with him because he said he'd show me. We found villages with huts, were ruthless, and the thatched from the roof was lying on the ground. And it didn't make any sense, the didn't seem to have been any violence sir. There were no bullet holes. No sign of the military no tank treads nothing. and these people were all sitting on the ground outside their homes. And they didn't put the roof backup. We found a cement house. Where you know, families were living there. The families were into rooms with goats and pigs for lack of space. They were just sort of squeezing two rooms. Children were sick with pneumonia. It was rainy season, so many elderly run were growing living outside in the rain, contracted, pneumonia were dying, and so I went up to them and ask them who did this like? Did the army do this to you? WHO This to you? The army the police like who destroy your homes like. Tell me who did this to you. And the answer was something I never would have expected. They said we did. Poke Gami had said had felt the statue parts were primitive. And local leaders were so desperate. Pleas their please the president. They went out to the villagers. Instead district your roofs. The president said the primitive. We need to get rid of them. Who was going to speak up for them? who were they going to tell? What were they going to do? There was no press no civil society. No one to speak up for them, so they went up climbed on their own roofs, and destroyed their own homes, and many of these homes built with their own hands, and when I came back to the capital after. Seeing this and I told people you know this is what's happening the countryside. Nobody would believe me. Because, they were like no. The president's a good man. Look at the papers. There's only stuff happening, so if you came to Rwandan you read. The papers listened to the news. You would think that the place is a paradise that is what the Kagami is saying. A miracle that has risen from the ashes of the genocide. This is a narrative, the official narrative and this is what you would believe. I'm so people who've lived on dictatorship. They know that there's something wrong when they just see good news. Good News. Good News, so that's why I called the book bad news because. My Book Bad News because the bad news is what? Is So important to society and that we're not hearing and now in America. Many journalists I feel are sort of feeling that they're in a similar kind of repressive situation are kind of. Confused about how to confront this new presidency that disdains the press doesn't care for the press, and the press seems to almost be losing its ability and capacity to hold power accountable. I think Americans would do well now to learn from people like the Rwandan students who might taught whom I worked alongside. Who Know What this feels like who? Know How it might be countered, who've tried to counter it sometimes successfully, sometimes not. But who had that experience? And now I think the world we in a place where the world has a lot to share with America now and to help American civil society. And I say sometimes that a society that can't speak is like a body that doesn't feel pain, so someone can cut off your leg and you won't know it. You can cut off your own leg and you won't know it because you don't feel pain. Free, speech. Or oppresses that feedback. That society gives to power and gives to itself, saying something wrong happening here. We need to change. We need to address the situation and I think with the press in America. There's a sense that the press might lose some of its ability. To counter what the White House does! I think in some ways. It's exciting. America looking outward now. For Solutions. Twenty first century dictatorship. And authoritarianism is now coming to. Places that we thought were bastions of liberty and democracy and speech that we. We looked up to. And now we're seeing that even those under threat. So where do we go from here? It's very fragile. And Dangerous moment I think in the in the world. Also exciting in a way, because it brings us all together, it's not us and them or us in you. We are confronting these universal questions of freedom of free speech of. Living lives that are unencumbered by government abuse. We all are facing the same questions and we're all in it together, so there's a certain potential. Journalism for me going to Congo and Rwanda was. A way to educate myself. About the limits of humanity in our world, and going to some of these places where extreme things are happening to understand what they look like. What does it look like to see one hundred thousand people being displaced? What what is a warlord looks like? How does how does? She behave. What does it feel like to be in a city that is about to be attacked where everything that you have built? All, the things we take for granted our homes our savings. Are Identities our careers. All of that will come to not. when the city's raised, what does it feel like to be among people who are facing the? Possibility. Trying to understand the full spectrum, and it's in these places that you begin to see the limits of human capacity. Resilient we are how inventive we are. How we will find a way in the deepest darkest circumstances we will find a way. A ray of hope to cling onto that will keep going. Even though from the outside we see it as a place of conflict of war, tragedy and sadness. In Congo there's a great deal of joy in Kinshasa concertos vibrant city in the place I was living in slum. Our walk down the street and there'd be saxophonists on the rooftop splitting. Original Music. Creating Ambiance Congolese call themselves ambience servers, creators of ambience, and the creating this ambience, creating this joy and excitement in part to forget. The pain, the sorrow, and so you see that the mind has this ability to create happiness create joy. We have this innate desire to be free. In Congo I would see. When I saw how people behaving in the war, a lot of it came down. I felt to questions of identity. I didn't understand why a militia fighter for example would not. Just go and take over village and maybe kill some people in order to take over their village, but in Congo they would. There were stories all the time of extraordinarily horrific acts of violence, people being maimed and forced into certain positions and killed very slowly. That didn't make any military sense. One of the explanations, I came to was that the people committing these acts are trying to somehow make a mark on their world. Assert themselves on the world and say you know I. Exist This is my work. You find a lot of artists in Congo many many artists, and in some way. Even these militia fighters were killing in. Really creative ways to say this is my way of killing. I'm not just going to kill someone. I'm going to kill them in my way, it's. counterintuitive seems horribly perverse, but the militarily doesn't make any sense so. You feel like. Everyone. Congo in these places yearning for a sense of identity since the day belong that they exist and the fundamentally of this urge. I hadn't realized before going to this place. HOW IMPORTANT IS! For us. To be something and feel like we are someone. It was really important to me that someone should witness what is going on. And I remember when I was going through the Central African. Republic arrived at a at a village that just been attacked and burnt down, and it was empty, all the people of fled to the jungle, and so we were calling out friends. It's okay. And one of the first people come out. Was this woman? She came running towards us and behind whole bunch of uncle of men, also and the rest. The village came out when they saw nothing was happening to her. She wasn't being killed. They had no food. They had no water, no medicine, but when they came out, they didn't ask for food. and asked for water. They're not for medicine. Then ask for help the first thing. They said to me was. Do people know. Do people know what's happening to us or is this happening to us and nobody knows. That is so important to people to know that someone out there knows is a source of so much hope, and so that's something else. I took away. How powerful how fundamental to know that someone anyone doesn't matter black white. The race doesn't matter religious matter to someone know, and if no one knows then, we're really. Really really in trouble like then there's really there maybe sort of no way out. And I. Met Brave, brave people. There was a Polish priest in the middle of the Central African Republic who was driving into these war zones, where even the French peacekeepers arm to their teeth would not dare enter. It was so dangerous, and so he was driving his white pick-up, and he I asked if I could go along, and so he took me along, and so we were driving in through these deserted. Warzone. The frontline and empty villages, and he'd stop at each version. He'd honk and from the. Forest, someone would run out print out with a piece paper. and He'd handed to the priest, and the priest were stuffing stuffing in his glove compartment, and on that paper would be neatly written with. The names of all the people who died the names of people who were still alive. What they needed. Who was sick? There was no phone. There was no way to communicate this, so he would go village-by-village and get these pieces of paper and the drive back to the city. And then hold a meeting with the NGOs with the French peacekeepers. Everyone else and say this village needs water. This urge needs medicine. It's humbling to find people like that who still need to do that, but who are doing that who are taking such great personal risk. I hadn't. Until that point fully understood just how? Powerful. The journalists work can be the simple act of documenting something and then putting it out there. Go in with preconceived ideas of what people in. Tough situations need and want and I. think that's happened a lot throughout history. We decide for other people. A dictatorships okay for them because they had war. so they're happy. This is enough for them. And this is all they need. In a place of conflict is just bullets flying everywhere and there aren't the parties. There isn't the joy, no, but joys a fundamental human need. We will created even in the most abject places. And you can imagine that people who are who whose homes and villages have been destroyed. All they care about is food. and Water and medicine, but there are other things that are as fundamental in some ways that. That that they're seeking that they want. They want recognition. And feels just wrong like why does it have to be engine driving in this dinky little car through this village to discover the had been a massacre of hundred people. This is wrong. We're in the twenty century with age of information. We're supposed to know about these things. Okay, we. Maybe we can't fix everything we're supposed to know. That's the I. We tell ourselves, but there are huge portions of the earth where. People Act with impunity. Great homes done. And nobody knows yeah, it's. HUMBLING! When I first went out to Congo I guess something was wrong me there. And ever since I've been trying to understand that act and I think sometimes we do things. That take us a lifetime to understand. Maybe, maybe we never really do. People come up to me and see you do the crazy thing you know going out to Congo. When I think about myself in that time. I don't even know if I would do such a thing again sort of the the innocence, a Navy of youth but I'm really really glad. I listened to that little voice in my head. That said you know maybe you want to. Do something. That is more immediately socially. impactful relevant. In some ways it's strange in some ways. It seems almost inevitable. There's how could have gone happened otherwise. I can't imagine who might be. That if I had not? Paid attention to that little voice I think someone said. Finney's don't come as Eureka as a flash become as little, whisper. And you need to listen to it.
NEW PODCAST: UN Catch-Up Dateline Geneva
"Hello and welcome to un. Catch up datelined. Geneva a weekly review of international events that are making the headlines at the united nations. Thanks for listening. I'm your host daniel johnson and in today's show we'll be hearing about you and rights chief. Michelle basch. Let's update to member states on the situation in belarus also efforts to get aid into ethiopia's tigray region and for the world's workers a warning from the international labor organization that covid nineteen impact on wages is only just getting started. That's all in the news bulletin coming right up. But first we're off to the democratic republic of the congo where we're going to find out about how you and broadcaster radio copy is busy providing lifesaving and trusted information on cave nineteen to its many millions of listeners. Not just on the new corona virus in fact but on deadly ebola disease which is endemic in the country along with cholera measles and malaria. This is a massive task almost as fast as the country itself which is the size of western europe and home to the un peacekeeping mission moscow. But it's more urgent than ever as the country faces a new infections. Spike in all provinces to help understand how radio capi is tackling the problem of rumors and misinformation. I spoke to the station's head of strategic communication and public information. Christoph video rack. I started by asking him for the latest news on covid nineteen india congo. Unfortunately for covy we are now in a situation where receive signal often increase of second wave of covid in most in kinshasa abbott also in khiva winning in most of the provinces of the congo is. Just you know it's just coming back. We have to take or the measures of precaution. I must say that the situation is not the same. He in congo is lots of economic problems. Lots of problems of peace and security. So there was all the you know is difficult in some part of kinshasa to find to see some people who are wearing masks now but there is clearly a need given. The alarming signaled that we receive to read sensitize. And that's what we we have done since the biggest thing on the radio coffee but we are going to talk about. That's absolutely an unassured. Say that own. Maybe you could give us an insight into democratic republic of the congo. It's a vast country. So how do you go about tailoring. Your programming to the different needs of the country. How many transmitters do you have for example over there. we have forty transmitters. Radio copy is actually the regio number one in the country lesson lesson kinshasa because they re some competition which is very good that very healthy but in the rest of the country out the regular number one we have to not weekly audience of twenty three million people forty transmitters in most of the provinces of the country and we are so developing some partnership with local communities. That's a radio that the un regular was bonding. Two thousand and twenty eight and our daily struggle is to provide credible and reliable information about all the country. And of course we broadcast in five languages french selene gala swati league kongo luba and i must add a few other languages in the reasons to jewel and local program that we have put in place in the keevil during the last ebola epidemics where we need to be able to speak to people. Because that's what it's about right. Radio is to speak to communities and we are so at some local language is like candy and we now get the feedback. That you know. That was extremely important to speak to people in context of pandemic because there is a lot of resistance. There were a lot of rumors that was true. Foible that's true for covid. And that's always clearly necessity to speak to people and to be leeson's and you know that people even in the us country like congo. They are very demanding. If they don't like the radio program would switch it off so we need to be a useful right. Your dna is really the focus on reliability and ability. It's great that you mentioned credibility because trust overseas so important your listeners actually trust what you say and it reminds me of a conversation. I had with one of your colleagues reporters last year and she was saying that one of the things that people understand about copy is that the information is verified. So it's not going to be immediately perhaps available but it will take a little bit longer to verify. That really brings me to my question. How do you keep up with social media and misinformation that surrounds not only covid but ebola and all sorts of things you know. There's lots of unfounded information out there. So how'd you keep pace with it. Your question is at the heart of what we're doing now because we are engaged in the process of transforming roger copy in a beam india. It's a radio station. So we we manipulate twenty news twenty thirteen news every day. Some of them very sensitive but wields. Nbc news hour gusting on air. But we also want these news to be on the social media quickly because the situation the way to consume to access information go some changing very rapidly after quitting the cds and we need to cope with that we need to follow this process. I omitted to tell you that. Facebook page of radio copy is the biggest facebook beijing the congo as well so For us we have right now. Limited capacity in community management but for us. The main things through our facebook page through twitter account that told saw websites. Go to the website of frederick so very very followed not only in congo abroad among the jasper ryan. Those book you know again providing the right and very verified news. And that's often enough. You know when you have a credibility to ensure that rumor and fake news on not consider as credible. Who can i just jump in there quickly. How do you nip those rooms in the bud. I mean maybe give me Some specific reactions and responses to confronting misinformation about not only about covert. Some of the the talk shows that you have. How do you directly. Stay in contact with your listener base. We have three main programs. The three most popular programs off fragile okapi interactive. We allow the listeners from all the traces of this huge country eighty times belgium when you take a plane unique to fly for three three hours to go on the other side so we get weaving one some calls from the east from the west from the notes for the south of the country. They often ask questions that we have from to against thought to ourselves. They often convey rumors and misinformation. And that's a very efficient way to ensure that the these misinformation on not circulating further. But that's not enough. Of course it's very important to listen to people to give them the opportunity to speak and to answer to them. But of course we also need to work at the same time on the facebook page social media. It's more important your rights for us to be credible than to be fast that being said you know we also need to be fast just because if you are not fast you give the space for all the information to grow so we are currently reorganizing into iraq okapi so that we can send notifications on the social media. We don't want to be in position where we have to wait for the to ride. You'll news turn to provide an impotent formation. We need to get on the website before. Thank you for that. That really is fascinating. Insight into how a traditional radio station is evolving to meet the needs of this fight against a misinformation. Just tell me why it could be harmful in the ebola context. You know there were people who were dying because they were afraid of going to get help. Wendy yes i mean i what i heard in congo during the latest abela apd. The inequality was was pretty much similar. While than what. I heard when i was in liberia and sierra leone. Few years ago in west africa during the biggest crises there is during the time especially in areas without peace and security issues. Everything is integrated in everything. Is meeks right. You think that you need to provide the right information. So that peop- korla just take the rights. Minerals are not ah style to the medical team. But it's more complex than that because clearly people don't want peace who don't want the disease. The outbreak to be stopped because it generates money or generates cow and scowl is actually good for their own private interest so that becomes extremely complex. And i guess the right thing is to be able to reach people to reach the communities and the radio station of course is unique. Not the only one. But that's a unique tool and to do it with the right may sage the right time using the right language and doing repetition radio is very important in africa and the radio. Podcast so can be sent on these platforms so there was some austerity the medical teams and that was extremely dangerous for the humanitarian work in the context of at some points given insecurity and the way out. Lots of challenges logistic challenges again. It's a huge country so the problems are incredible here and that's good to hear local authorities i to say that the radio station was instrumental. It's not us who say that it's it's them. I wasn't guten one in the northeast. That's in the northeast. And that's near baby in any you of on group idea for killing the population civilians. Other time you had a block and you imagine of all of this sees intriguing and how. It's difficult to fight against an outbreak into that. And the the reason why we have created new studio in these northeast bottle of congo is because we were asked by the local authorities say regular copy to speak specifically to our population and convince our population. The people come to fight against table are not enemies because some spoils tell them that they all the enemies so it's just a very clear reminder that radio broadcast is incredibly if it's well done and if it's really targeting the right audience it's incredibly useful to fight spanta. Mix that was. I just want to say that. Well that was not the focus on that of radio. Copyright fees not congo to fight pandemics. It's the what is interesting is how we we use this tool to also fight. Sunday makes on on on on fighting on on sensitization but on education. Very last question to you christoph. It'd be really insightful. To understand how you personally and your team have coped with covid. I mean radio stations are less complicated than tv. That's for sure but still they need a certain minimum level of material gear to make things work. How did you cope with the restrictions placed on you because of covid us like in many countries was just a new situation. Lots of fields. Lots of thanks. I tease lots of room. know where we would go the long term consequences of data at that time. We have quite leader reg at the beginning. Show remember well about this disease. We hot civil stuff that well tested positive. We lost one koenig and we had no choice down We didn't want to stoke the right. You don't shut down the radio at at at a time where people are at home and listen the radio and need the radio even more than usually we have to find the technical way to continue broadcasting without new stuff in the office and we managed each stuff manage to to present the news from home. We re recall the we sometimes live and we managed to maintain Sensitization on copied in all of congo. Our news reliable because it's not because there could be that the problem stop in terms of peace and security and we managed to keep our audience. That was great. That's not over now. We are not back to normal but of course we know now that we are able to continue broadcasting even if everybody has to go back home kristof duty iraq from radio kathy in the democratic republic congo. Thank you for this insight. I thought i was busy until i spoke to you so i will let you get on with your money. Various challenges and we look forward to speaking to you again. Look after yourself crystal billions iraq from radio copy and democratic republic of the congo. Now it's time for the news. Hundreds of people continue to be arrested every week during demonstrations in belarus protesters have been systematically and violently dispersed. You human rights chief. Michelle bachelet said at the human rights council speaking on friday in geneva. The high commissioner for human rights expressed deep concern about use of force violations by the security forces. ms bachelet situation belarus had seen no improvement since protesters began contesting. The result of presidential elections in august said that reportedly around one thousand people were arrested on the eighth of november and seven hundred on the fifteenth. She told member states. That allegations of injuries caused by crowd dispersal measures and of ill-treatment during arrests have continued to emerge and that at least four people had died. Numerous accounts describe demonstrator. Some passersby being randomly chased kicked and severely beaten with batons during the dispersal of rallies. We also have multiple and credible reports of people beaten by members of the security forces during and after the transport to police stations or detention centers if confirm such incidents should constitute ill-treatment and in some cases may amount to torture in belarus's permanent representative to the un in geneva europe umbrella. Vich said that most people were continuing with their normal lives in the country and that the government was functioning as factories and offices. The un is doing its outmost to secure aid access to ethiopia's tigray region. It said on friday after a deal was struck to reach. Displaced civilians affected by weeks of fighting between federal and regional forces. The development comes. After an earlier announcement that the ethiopian government had authorized unimpeded sustained unsecure humanitarian access to reach those in need across areas. Now under control in the northeast of the country in geneva agency. Spokesperson baba balak said that more than forty seven thousand ethiopian. Refugee arrivals had reached a sudan. So far with moore expected but they're still concerned for tens of thousands of barrett train refugees. Still inside tigray his food program spokesperson thompson ferry. Wfp's priority is to locate some of the fifty thousand eritrean refugees who before the conflict received food assistance in four camps in tigray. It is possible that some may have led by now in of seventy. The impact of the conflict on civilians is also a major worry amid warnings from the world health organization. Who not the worsening of the covid nineteen pandemic. It was to be expected along with injuries. Malnutrition communicable diseases. Such as malaria finally global pressure on wages from covid nineteen will not stop with the arrival of a vaccine. The head of the international labor organization ilo has warned ilo director-general guy. Ryder was speaking at the launch of the bodies flagship global way to report which is published every two years. It showed how the pandemic had slowed or reversed. A trend of rising wages across the world hitting women workers on the low paid hardest. It's going to be a long road back. And i think it's going to be turbulent and it's going to be hard. Mr rider told journalists except china which was bouncing back remarkably quickly. According to the un data most of the world would take a considerable period of time to get back to where it was before the pandemic and this had elton extraordinary blow to the world of work almost overnight. They ilo chief said on wednesday. He explained that there was at least a strong likelihood that has weighed subsidies and government interventions are reduced as they will be over time that we are likely to face continued downward pressure on wages. According to ireland's report after four years when wages grew on average by nine point four two nine point nine percent annually in advanced g twenty economies and three point five to four point five percent in emerging twenty economies wage growth slowed or reversed in two thirds of countries. So that was the new. So let's wrap this up but not before we have heard from our guests salons tailgate got as and alford yellow from the un information. Service here in geneva solange to you i. What are your thoughts then on what christoph had to say about trust building the need to really fight this misinformation scourge that is so prevalent and preventing people from getting the right information. Well how daniel. Hey everybody i like very much. When christopher said that during the last ebola crisis he heard similar things from ecuador tools sierra leone liberia. I mean this is something that we are living also now with the koby. The virus is everywhere but the misinformation is everywhere also. It reminds me one of the stories we did with. The eunice is being the un information service and there are lots of them around the world. Sorry for the acronyms listeners. Thank you yeah. The story was in senegal and carolina. The director of unions. You already thank you ted. That he loves to listen. Radio okapi because the radio links latin and african read. This is exactly what i think. We need to do to build britsh within characters and they did use in music to says he belies. The local populations in each language in very much languages to says he believes about khalid and it works because is a universal language. That reminds me about another story which reported on this year. Solange from bolivia. And this time you highlighted the work of a young rapper. Kool crusoe who is in alto which is a city of three thousand meters above lopez and he was a rapper who used to earn his living down in the city but covy put a stop to all of that and he had to turn to recycling and earning pennies. I think really to get by and he really was struggling. But then he got into an initiative with the information service down there. Your karen dana. Sorry for the pronunciation being quarantine and he used music there to get in touch with young people and explained about covert and really to express solidarity. Maybe you could put some flesh on that story for me. You pronounce your thin. And this is story was powerful because greece is a young rapper and he worked with the un team in bolivia and it was really powerful because he used he book to send civilize about and here the game. It bob is a would like to say it exists everywhere not only one country. So we again. If misinformation is a global issue then the answer is also global and this is what the was doing very effective because he lives there he suffered there. He was without work. I mean he needed survive like in when kristoff talk about the local populations in in in africa. I mean valley's economic issues. We cannot just think okay. Put a mask go do this and that i mean. They have really economic problems in greece. Even with they all his problems he wanted to help. He wanted to be part of the solution singing and doing what he knows to do. Thank you for that salange and quickly to you. Al for if i may it would be interesting to hear your inside because you and i together here to your engine. We've covered the ebola crisis. Not only in the democratic republic of the congo many similarities. Aren't there between the approach to how you tackle something as deadly as ebola as you might have also approached covert and the question of trust is one. That's really important to getting the trust of the communities and overcoming stigma. What do you think about what kristof said any. Did that bring up any memories of of ebola in the past there essential done. Thank you salons years. That's right it's not enough to have a vaccine and regarding what is the black said it's not enough to have a vaccine Disease you have to get also the support of the community or your health. Interventions won't work. And i think one tenth organization has this time in again a press conference over the years in geneva. This also cutting off respecting traditional beliefs in light of the funeral. Practice that transmitted disease after munoz can infect by touching the defendant. So it's kind of things can only be addressed by people who have the trust of the community and i want to complete them by evoking some listen from ebola in west africa whereas the community engagement was one of the key to stop the spread of disease and in the fight against covid nineteen it highlights importance of building trust working with the healthcare workers and communities thank you l. i know that is something that all the humanitarian coordinators of the united nations all all humanitarian 's would echo because one of the things they say to us when we talked to them is. Oh my goodness. I've got so many meetings. I can't get into the field enough because that's where you stay in contact with people on. That's what you really understand. What the needs are on the ground so that issue of trust is obviously very difficult to define. But it's something that you can't do without on. I think salon and alpha unless you have anything else to say that brings us to the end of our first. Un catch-up datelined geneva. I think we will take this forward listeners. If your happy with this we would love to hear from you at geneva. Just get in touch with information service. And maybe you have a story that you'd like to share because we'd like to hear from you so just remains for me to thank solarte's gate got as and alfred yellow from geneva. My name is daniel johnson until next time.
Episode 447: Kin-Dza-Dza (1986)
"Christopher media let's make some noise Honest what my opinion. UH At least sort of Beloki Cabetican has much in could be machine. I added. I'm a brief cool welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. Mike White showing me once again is MS Jennifer hand. Orf Do also with us is Mr Dan Martin Hello. Sifi December continues what they look at the nineteen eighty-six film from Georgie. He then Kinsahsa respect for drying. I am trying my best and I'm going to try character names. It's going to be fun. It's it's a story of two men who are transported to planet to pollute where they have to navigate the barren landscape and strange culture of the people that live there will be unpacking their rituals and the anthropological implications of Pook as we go along. I don't necessarily think that will be spoiling the film for people who haven't seen it yet as I don't think there's too much much to ruin in the film It's more about the journey than the destination when it comes to Kinshasa so Jennifer heads. You've seen this one before you agree to be part of the episode. I had not but having seen it a and having seen a lot of people who I think were influenced Mel I think maybe I'll have seen aspects of it that now feel familiar. It's a bit watching. It's a bit like having deja Vu if you've ever enjoyed Terry Gilliam morning of that sort of check mystical realism stuff. That Terry Gilliam really Andrew from so no. This is my first time though. It feels as though I may have once seen in a dream. How about you? Dan Seen Bits but not the whole thing. This was also the first time. Watch for me. I'd had this film for years on. DVD that eventually. Even though I hadn't seen it I upgraded to BLU ray silly me. Is there a blue right. Yeah I can't remember where I got it from but maybe musk's film perhaps and then. I know that there's a German company that's going to be putting it out very I shortly to hopefully with English subtitles. This was everything that I hoped it would be. I had heard about it for years. I heard that there is this strange Soviet science ends fiction film where people spoke in a whole different language That's not necessarily true because eventually they do start speaking Russian and a little bit of Georgian. But wow it really plays with that stranger in a strange land trope and I really dug it. Yeah it's it's a lovely lovely thing when the very first shot when it's when it's tracking across the desert we were trying to work out. How much of that was real? How much of that was painted with? It was miniatures and throughout the film. They're all like match cuts between these amazing. I think jen you looked it up and it was a it's a real drain. Say isn't it the way they were filming but as match between that on some really lovely miniature work as well often you. It's hard to tell which is which it's really gorgeous home. Well and this and this film was well it takes purely from an imagined agent world. It's obviously you know if you're if you're a big sci-fi fan it's obviously a humanoid planet where the where the aliens very much look like humans and there's not anything to distinguish them other than their kids culture. The made up vocabulary was something I really enjoyed. Because I'm hard of hearing and so. I just sort of gently Lee edged into not knowing what they were saying. At any given point I enjoyed for a good part of the film imagining that they were just saying. Cool Cool Daddy. Oh that's cool. Every time they spoke about anything which gave it a bit of a positive spin for about twenty minutes which is Great. It's a weird journey. I mean it's a weird journey for them. It's weird journey for the audience. It's a weird little earning this film. Do you know what the linguistic basis of coup is Mike a lot of the other words. They use a based on Georgian words. Woods or all puns. I guess references but I couldn't find anything that said won't coup was the inspiration for coup was unnatural where it comes from though. I know that the film almost got into trouble. Because coup sounded like the initials of a Soviet or Georgian leader at one point so so but then apparently they were ousted very quickly after the film came out the the leader not the film and Yeah so there's all this controversy about that and then also so when they played at a film festival and I want to say it was Portugal. But I'm not sure that that meant the Kumon swearword so they were getting into trouble at a film vessel for a made up word in there. Is that's amazing and talking about getting in trouble. I was really surprised the film with this direct a critique critique of political codes of conduct and you know it straight satire if nothing else and it's interesting to see that it was allowed to be made in supported awarded that time that's all it's point obviously anti-capitalism and like sort of social hierarchies but the KGB also feature heavily heavily in its in its police metaphor. I think or I guess like with a lot of the Soviet Era Sipho as you as long as you want visibly ruder about the Soviet system than you are about the decorative west than it was kind of okay well and it's all taking place on a different planet's not like this is really about the Soviet Union right. They were still pretty touchy about. This is something else in my why native ISM came forward at this point where I kept trying to make something of the fact it was called Planet Pluto because I just read it in the subtitle and I kept reading it as Pew can I thought. Oh well maybe there is like no now. Obviously it was written in Russian originally. And there's no there's no connection whatsoever but I couldn't figure out what what planet pollute. Luke was related to either. That was bit talking talking about the different words though And I maybe someone's got it in front of them but the name of the the name of the police Is Apparently the Russian word for police backwards the name for the police class. So there's a lot of word play which I feel probably someone someone with a with a much better grasp of Russia Georgian than I could probably unravel along there. Yeah the whole thing about. The prison is based on a Georgian word for prison apparently which is a bathtub and some bathtubs are filled with nails and others aren't and then you get locked in there and shoved amongst all these other bathtubs. It feels a bit like something a kid would would threaten you with like. I'm GonNa put you in a bathtub full of nails that's like it's it's very it's very childish of its ways days. Have you seen the remake. Mike I have. Yeah I've I've not seen it but I've I've so skimmed through the automation. It's interesting to see what he's is. Capped absolutely the same on what. He's changed because things like all. The prisoners evolve. Feels like like it might be a budgetary attorney decision because you know those cheap and yet that is how it is drawn in the animation as well. So He's stuck with. That will be interesting. It'll be interesting to compare and contrast when Sary's against the early alien the creature's on on pook feels like this movie had just such threadbare budget but then you look at the special effects in your like these are actually pretty good special effects like the actual flying machine that the two aliens that we meet. It's like that actually looks pretty decent. That looks better than some special effects. I see now especially on the sci-fi channel. I think lots of things look great when you compare it to this life lunch even the row pissed of puppets is still real thing that exists in the real world and so it never feels unreal. And it's charming enough that you've you willingly boy into it exactly. CGI It has. It has that crappy happy handmade charm that things like money fallen in like I said earlier Terry Gilliam and the like like shrank. Meyer and that kind of stuff really lenten Clinton to an it's an aesthetic. That really means something. When you're in it is a dystopia world like this? It's the sort of the the budgetary aesthetic of Gallium Jones Jones. And then the tech aesthetic of Gilliam. Very much borough from this. I'd say I like it very much. Reminds me of the of the behind the scenes Agnes's Brazil like inbetween the walls of Brazil particularly the future escapes into of monkeys. As well. If you look at how how much Gilliam sort of based himself on on Carl's Eamon. He's obviously a fan of eastern cinema all eastern European cinema so. I'd be surprised if you hadn't seen this. Yeah that that was something thing also started to wonder. Like how far did this actually get distributed at any given point. When was it actually released? Because it's it's the kind of thing Were you could imagine certain certain people watching it and completely ripping it off in in the late eighties early nineties but equally how often was actually being seen in someone's living room in in nineteen eighty eighty nine in England of the states are wherever you have you know so we should talk a little bit more about the plot here this begins on earth and it begins pretty. Normally we've got our main character Vladmir. Who is a builder? He checks in with his wife in the morning. He's office on his way to work. And then he just so happens to run into the man Jetta von who comes up and he's like. Hey there's this guy over here without out any shoes we should probably help him the go over and talk to this guy and he is asking about what number they are in the galaxy. Because he's trying to get home home. Obviously we're thinking this is just a homeless dude. WHO's maybe a little crazy until they hit a button on this little machine that he's got and then are instantly transported to this desert landscape there? They're just thrown into Iraq. You know so it's or tattooing if you prefer it does it's very cheap and this whole movie has that great aesthetic and it's this whole thing where they then meet these two Aliens Bay and West off and bay. Is this taller guy and weapons this little a little dude and we learn through. Oh little bit of time that they are of two different classes and that classism is just this major thing and it's basically how Pook the planet works is people of one class Lording it over another class and we talked last week or two weeks ago when we talked about creating the humanoids about the hold star belly. Snatches thing and it's like it's so arbitrary because there's a machine that they have where they point at you and if it shows up green than you are a pot sock the the lower class and shows up horns your what is it a chat chat havoc and then to further confuse the issue depending on what planet you're on their ranking is the other around so depending on what what group you ended up in with which it was a brilliant way of just nothing was consistent which is a bit late coca. Ask in that way that the second you you think you know the rules then suddenly. There's another rule that twists all around. When I was a child oiled one of the very few videotapes we had in? The House was an animated Asterix movie. That wasn't based on one of the books called the twelve talks of Asterix. I think maybe they did a book lighter and it can one of the tasks was to you know get a document something or other signed over at the Roman Bureau works also and and it turned into a bureaucratic nightmare of the highest old with them having to go from office to office because they have this one this form until they've got these full they have to request that phone with that full and it always comes back to mind when I'm stuck in sort of paperwork nightmare and this felt very aligned with that in the the show totally unaware of the rules and the younger guy is a little bit of cake and came so wanting to just smash everything off and he's a clubs the tunnels to some extent but he's he's at actual KLEPTOMANIAC but they're constantly about the fact that they're they don't know the rules. Josh the opening in Russia were there at the moment where the were young. Our young lead walks up to our older lead and says you know commerce brother may be rather than call Madam. Yeah I thought I might be over rushing up in my memory but This guy needs help you know. He's gone looks yet. And it's it's I just love the idea that you could grab someone else in the street and say we need to help someone. We've just had a fairly significant election in the UK. And I think you know we could all do with giving ourselves to each other but the U. K.. Right now But I love okay. So that's one of the philosophies that it starts with. Is this idea of taking care of people who needs to be taken care of. And then secondly or ostensibly are time travelers slash Mentally ill displaced human and is saying no no no. Just tell me the coordinates of your planet. And they've got no idea what he's talking about and they assume he's insane because they don't understand the rules of what he's talking about now later everyone's GonNa look at them like they're insane. I love the bit where they're trying to find out what the coordinates is. Just tell tellers the specific gravity century Dr Bob I love. I love that. They're being looked like how do you. How do you okay? Fine just tell us the the circumference of your planet and it's like it's all this kind of stuff that you can imagine in an interplanetary kind of world being really basic knowledge like your street number or or your post code or something like that and and so that swap of being in a different culture and having something totally normal versus something being totally alien and then then the third thing I really love about it is the fact the or or older hero just grabs the box and pushes the button and suddenly in the desert which is so very much the editing style of this film Old Sam as well so it's just too abandoned abandoned vignette go into a completely different chunk of story. What's the point of that? Vignette was resolved is absolutely a spectacular. Yeah it just it moves very quickly and they even though. This movie is a little over two hours. I can't think of any place in this movie. That drax REX. No it's it's really quite nippy for something of that length I was. I I tell you I didn't expect it to be in two parts the the little The little boy threw was quite nice. I loved that it was a bit Meta but it was also a bit like a traveler's guide to to plunk thank like it was it was it was sort of it. Felt like I was a tourist and they called them tourists and tour guide for the characters will. They should've are operating under under the falsehood that they would just before they realized there another planet. They think they're still in Russia. They just further away it. What's the what's the closest we must be there so they say oh you know we just lost our two ago wanted right tickets to the next big city and will be there exactly but I love I love the way that that sort of plunk for dummies dictionary comes up in the middle as though to include us in this gag is look we know you are things? Don't understand so look we're just going to spell it out for you so going forward. You've got this information. By that time. I feel like I had figured out a lot of that stuff absolutely so it wasn't like unlocking the key for the second half and it wasn't a great reveal. It was more like a more like revision. More just saying okay if you haven't gotten it yet. This is what's going on a specific terms for the penal system having been explained that up until that point so they were quite useful. I like that the word for money Johnny was Chattel. That's quite that's quite direct to English is that that sort of and but then equally a love. There's a bit where they're counting out their money in the older chop it hasn't figured it out. And he's just handing these seemingly random probably randomly shaped pieces of metal Sort of trump is audio shards words of metals. The younger guy going. How much is this? That's fifty and how much is this. That's a hundred and it's sort of just reminds me of like the first day of any trip. I've taken to a foreign country. We're sort of going through your change going. That is that five cents or five dollars. I don't know what that is. Well the other thing is that it's pretty clear that the hierarchy is almost entirely Charlie based on wealth which is obviously a trouser color will the trouser color is more of a uniform trousers like it super frantic capitalist in the Super Bowl like pro Russian system communism because it's lambasting the society for being having class based in China knowledge which money people have so we've got the chaps with the bells and their nose the pot socks who who on puncture the or the lowest citizen than above is that we've got the chops with Nobel's on their nose Chuttha Leans Chatelaine liens coal and then above level Outta channel. Who have a lot of chattel exactly? Who have the the new law as it were the balloons now? So and then above that is the Calypso the police but backwards effectively effectively. The ones that the lights on their heads spinning around they is that a closer is a job. I feel like I feel like it's a job that comes with a ranking which which I suppose expensive suppose like the military police and then ended above that. You've got the the big go. I Mr Legal Hippies. He's between them. The hippies the people on the planet 'cause they have the count there the council something or other filled out for pollute the ones we meet towards the very end Komo got reported the same rank you have to go to talk to them because they stay off world but they are in charge of a bunch of stuff and they just turn everyone to again. They're interacting with you. Please put on a mosque. You'll spoiling lovely. I could imagine for someone who's not seen the film. This whole. Sounds like we're talking talking nonsense. And yet we understand each other completely because of the context of the fill all of these things are related you whereas in actual outside of this this world it does seem like complete and total gibberish. The I don't know where Mr Peasy h stands compared to say a dwarf wearing yellow pants. I think he's above a door by Flint Shirley and socially above the door feeling hands and then they talk about Crimson Pants as well but I never never saw anybody with Crimson Pants go who turns up and they all start kowtowing really hard to who has a like a gun that can cut a pipe. In from a distance he crimson pants Over good some pants gun cutter so again as we sort of meander through the rules of this world. That is kind of what the narrative does isn't Nett Lake every little interaction reveals another version of how one is meant to interact. I find the I mean this this is a this is a British British tradition busking. I find the the way that the buskers are treated. The sort of traveling musicians who were playing for money is is a really interesting commentary. Gary the thing Moscow Russia late New York like all these cities has a lot of street performers in and I am sure that the people who wrote this film had those street performers in mind when they were writing about the musicians who have to stand in a cage and then get money threat because that's their only way a forward. I mean the after a little while we learned that they need to have this rather fist. Capella or whatever. This this thing that will help the ship run and and they're like okay. Well we need money to buy one of these things so their only option is to busk and then yeah we find out that they can't the can't busk outside of a cage so so they need to allowed to him and in certain places they can't even bust indicate if they're not kneeling down because that areas kneeling allowed to be in a cage outside the cage naming down. I never looked out. We'll those two spherical metal shapes whether they would put down either side of the cage little razzle dazzle the extra footlights. But it's interesting that they using violin. One of them was trying to return to sort of fill Monica performance. So this is something from their I will that represents like hike loss and respected ought a now vat like screeching out these miss tunes in the desert it does it does need to be said that their notion of of musical entertainment is far lacking the end and again faulting with a springer mouth out There was a there was a there was a low of things that made me. WanNa take a bath after the first half of this mcvay of there was A. Yeah there's some kind of game the so this is it. It's almost like you've been on a holiday and you're explaining to people different things that happened on your holiday. There is a game where they put a spring in their mouth. And whoever over can spit this spring the farthest Wayne's and it's Do you remember this. It's going for the first match and then as we go in a separate to the spring spring musical instrument. Oh I know but that's a different one but then later when we go to meet that group of people who they first performed for. There's a load of people doing that. Weird spitting out of their mouths gain. Yeah there's a lot of spitting in this because not only is that but then the the the the little guy will spit on the big guy when he's in his cage quite a bit yes. There's a lot of that going on. And then a lot of sort of gentle knows tickling as well like the bell. The bell get sort of like like sort of silly slaps of the jazz fingers anger sort of on the bell Found that the toll guy when he was wearing. His Bell looked uncomfortably like John cleese from time to time. That's Oh doc wow I found quite distracting a cross between clean and the British article Mark Heap. WHO's in spiced? Have we specifically let the audience know where the bills are hanging from. Because I feel like if we haven't been clear about that people could be getting the wrong idea if you don't if you don't allow allred trousers pants you have to wear like a Septum bell on your nose like a like a mutual from mules or like they were able the exactly like a Bull Bell Guy Thank you. Yeah so you you know in the bull ring. Yeah in through the nose and the bow around the neck. Then you're getting cow hung account more efficient as a minute and it's easier to see you can see a hotak at fifty paces if they have their balance actually well presumably if you ESA if if you could see a podcast they see you. So they would be squatting in recognition ignition of noises and waving their homes. Yes this whole genuflection thing is just amazing and again it's just sort of being exposed to this culture until you know you've got a blend in. It's great this movie reminded me a lot of hard to be a God with this. Whole idea of someone coming from Earth? Though it's a more advanced earth and then coming to a very middle-age type the dark ages ages type place except our our characters that are coming here aren't nearly as advances say the scientists and hard to be God they just are thrown into this world. which has this kind of Dark Ages type of parents to it and also I love that? Speaking of where we're at politically in today's world that get used to be quite a different planet but they used all of the water for fuel so now they have no more water left on this planet and it becomes as precious commodity and they have to to actually convert now fuel back to water before they can even have a drink. It's this endless process of converting fuel to water and water to fuel. Well and the the absolute ludicrous of ludicrous of Ness of it that the travelers instantly recognized but the citizens or completely baffled by them. Saying what do you mean you trained your into water into the other and then back into the other and you don't feel that delay. Well they've got the for some reason. Sulfur are important to them. Because you rocketship DOC ID ship. They've got this sort of like infinite fuss source that they give him to light his cigarettes in in exchange for the mattress because it matches this precious Kaz and there's only when they run out of matches that they have to resort to busking to to get their power but is not so. He's that powerful charged with water. Somehow is that is that what women like the fake silence of the thing that spins around with fire shooting out of it's never explained how their spaceship works. It just works. And that's okay and I like that about this particular brand new science fiction where we're not expected to be gifted any great concept of physics or anything like this. It basically works on a round slowed rule rule in a button. So I've not actually seen the film. You're making comparison to Mike. But I think I think Dan has tested. So what do you reckon. It's the thing is hall to be a gold sensors around the idea that Brit Earth scientists of found a I'm a planet that is exactly the same as US but X. years behind us so they send an expedition to examine. Earth would have been like like at that period because the space situation is such that it's perfect fuck similarly of in the post and then these guys that with Advanced Knowledge are essentially God's because they know so much more than the locals but immediately they stuck so since I've seen it do they get stuck there and they get back Acworth just like taking a route. I think they're digging around. Yeah they've got some like more modern instruments that they've taken with them so there's an interesting correlation Asian there as well because they've got an oboe like modern clarinet oboe with them in halt big old but that basically basically like kind of like a violin. Yeah exactly the land barons by the time they get there because they have this information and therefore there's so much in advance of everyone else but they can't reveal themselves as Alliens and they call reveal themselves as essentially future people because it would blow these batteries back. These bottles people's minds lines. Prime directive is not a matter of degrees it is an absolute whereas with Kenza. They are actually like they've go interplanetary travel and they can teleport and they can send people back in time like so they're actually very evolved. Resource will four matches because they've mismanaged society so badly that they have sort of destroyed themselves. They've invested all is there. A powers in ensued technology and not nothing to charisma or healing the ones in charge of bug it off to that lovely lush planet with its or injuries and and Super Clean Air. That you're only allowed to breathe if you'll only if you look clean and they've left the the lower rungs of society on a horrible desert planet presumably working for the people on the planet. Oh that's never met Cla once. We do see their work forces. It is this giant faceless faceless. It reminds me of when you see videos of like Asian prison camps that are doing exercise in the morning and they're all like massive numbers of people so moving in the same uniform. Same really just desperately want to be there. Just be anywhere else but going through the motions of what they're told to do kinda thing that should have using these big dynamite plunges widow. Mike is the east east to settle. TNC The rail the rail war What were those things on the railroad that they say surival down the railroad it yet the manual Ryoko see-saw yes? So that that that powering something they're operating something but it's very hard to know what presumably Vail replacing the fuel that has to be done by control Volta or they are blowing up that last breath Mr Pch. Even though he's still alive I don't understand that. That was a bit confusing was it. was he the one in the bathtub in the hot tub. I think so. And so when we finally get revealed to him he feels like an idiot. It feels like he's probably got like a seventy. I Q and just in the bathtub all day. He's in the Boston with his boyfriend. Who is a news beller? You're a pot sock. He's in the ball pot sack and one of the last things that are heroes do is swapped the bell across from the back to the the elite ago. And he's just like it's very much. One of those ideas were. The machine of government is actually disconnected from the individuals. Where he himself it is not? There is no great wizard. Behind the curtain. There is just the system and the way people interpret this system in the moment which has become a runaway thing in itself. It doesn't need to be state. Is Being Stated Ashes leaderless fascism. Is that too far. Because they're they're all they really WANNA fall it like there. No you know what it is. They're so fearful of punishment that they will follow the rules to a fault in less. They're confident they won't be caught because things like stealing league will everybody next stuff in this and they make a big thing about the father everyone lawing all the time. Don't leave your purse on. The back of your chair is what I'm saying. Everybody next stuff in this movie. They say the traveler actually rich when they meet him again. He returns they're Saux. He's an honorable shop. And that's when they re they rolled them. I what's also interesting that the is just the police or does everybody have telepathy they. Everyone does because when playing chess chess against the patach petach say. Oh you're thinking the you're cheating because you were thinking things you do. Yeah he's not play chess before but he's able to Beta tejero's because he can read them on so he knows what moves they going to do. And so the next time they do a big bet and he deliberately thinks about moves he's not going to do to spoil the make it impossible to cheat and he thinks that that in itself is cheating so yeah they can all like an old remind covet. I love that very like turning on its head where the ideas that we can all read minds so if you can stop me reading your mind than your cheating you as opposed to the it reminds me of Like as as a as a film producer different cultures do business in different ways and of been in parts of the the world's wear. It's just assumed that you're going to be lying to each other. And it becomes very weird negotiation. Where if if you're not in on it everyone's lying to you and they assume you're lying to them when you're telling the truth and obviously quite quickly it goes very badly everybody's upset? It's almost almost like the election. We've just had worked out but not being willing to tell endless. Noise is a huge detriment to accompany. But if you have everyone in negotiation is aware the everyone is telling lies than its fair. It's this bunker system of it being unfair to everyone in the same way Rather than being fair to everyone in the same. I'm way it was very hard to fix that kind of thing because anyone who isn't long all the time is at a massive disadvantage because everyone just assumes that long anyway but it's flying because he is in fact. The horrible horrible KLEPTOMANIAC. Who for no reason that has ever explained consistently steels sinks? Wherever their way? Yeah he steals a gym out of the spaceship ship. Says it was important is not just a piece of glass like a child. Did you need that. I didn't know my bath. We'll also totally into fucking each other over and the the aliens who we think are may becoming friends with our two main characters they he just fucked them over consistently and then at the end when they are locked in the bathtub and our heroes are like well no we have to save them. That's the right right thing to do. It becomes so foreign to them that why are you doing this. Why are you trying to save us? And they want to stay in that bathtub. And that's that's kind of what I mean about. The like cultural balance and cultural equity in that sense is that if if the cultural rule is that we both know that one of us is at any moment gonNa fuck when over. Then it's okay. You don't feel cheated because it's expected but they get they are the the two locals are so thrown off guard by the fact that these two guys are helping them and then ten minutes later they fucked them over again removed from but I remember it. Maybe a sketch. Maybe some movie remember conversation between two to characters in something where one of them is trying to explain something and the other one keeps on going. Okay and what's the angle angle. which is going to do this or I get? What's the con the? There's no there's no going to be nice. Topple Bluff again. No so as soon as these guys are sort of super bowl neural. They've they have viewed with suspicion. Because that's not something that happens on this planet because they give over. They gave up to challenges to go home. Because it would mean about these guys and then they end up. Having to use time travel the do the end let's say heist the breakout a second time. which was just like what what what the Hell's going on here? Well they told they can go back to Earth but those guys will stay in the prison cell all they can go back to the back to the time they specific decision which would mean that they could combust the guys out but they wouldn't get to. This is where it does it sort of one hour TV wrapping it up really quickly to make everything a little tidy because they go back in time before the original time traveler came to where they are so they rescue their friends before that happened so that when he gets there they can all go back accepts. Immediately there to friends wanted. Nick is funny off his what. What kind of system you go there you want to let me hold live from? It won't let me hold your space and time travel device button from it. I promise I won't read away with just immediately disappears again. That brings us back to this delightful smash edit of this of this film. When wants certain things are done? You do not come back from them. Once the matches gone. They don't come back. It's the it's gone. There's nothing to be done and you've just got to move on from this. Absolute absolute response to law surchange. Oh everyone I'm a big fan of the night on the planet that greed is only limited by their imagination when they discover that matches plentiful resource on earth initially. They're like I mean leaned okay but we couldn't do it for less than seven bucks a then by the end of the movie they like. It's eleven thousand in two thousand eight hundred bucks as you need at first there fascinated by the idea that that he's got one match one match my God one match and they watch him light a cigarette with a they just about plots and it just as dead says it just this idea of wealth just escalating from there where initially at the beginning of the film. The idea of owning one match would be more wealth than they could ever imagine and then by the end of the film twenty thousand boxes of matches plus twenty three. Don't forget the additional twenty three. We need every match we can get. I mean obviously Safin Communist Angle. It's a it's a view of capitalism that is is unfavorable as it should be but the communist side of it. is they all literally saying that. You have to live in a capitalist society like when when when things all capitalist truth is go out the window because there's no room for truth capitalist world things that you would think are really really easy to come by are very difficult to come by in the Soviet Union. At this time I mean this was the age of. Oh are you going to. Russia will take a little suitcase full of jeans. Because they'll you'll pay thousands of dollars for a pair of jeans what absolutely and it was in fact It wasn't so close to this but ten years later I actually actually I already as a young teenager Spent about three months in Russia and my dad was working there even then it was absolutely partly just such a different world to look at and as you say so much closer to this bordering. Don't look what don't put your stuff down because it will be gone because you shouldn't shouldn't have put it down. And we watched recently watched one two three the billy while depiction sat on the Berlin divides. And it's about as someone trying to introduce Coca Cola Communist Gemini of the time they using Coca Cola abroad as a currency because these things aren't available so things that are so plentiful in our world. Were much more. Scarce over the well and again this becomes like terrifyingly relevant. I think I think America's probably GONNA be Shin deepened in Hershey bars and Coca Cola for his lungs at once but over here the UK. We'll kind of see what starts happening over the next. We'll we'll have free access assist tool lovely American goods. We just have to give us because we don't want your communist healthcare system. I wouldn't if it was a Silva plan that I have to to pay for someone else's healthcare. Forget it I don't want. Why should I help the people around me thank you very much? I'll pay thousands thousands of times both of my own healthcare the nothing for care at a fraction of I'm sorry. Do they have bells in their noses because if they don't have bells in their noses I'm not paying for their health care. How can you run the society when you don't know who to school tat exactly what color? What color trousers do they have? The because we can have one kind of health care for yellow trousers and one client of healthcare for red trousers others and that does sound fair. Red Trousers means the healthcare isn't going well now. The stub Elliott's niches bellies with Star Plain. Bellied sneakers had known upon no stars on their balance. No stars in other stars want so big. They were really quite small. You would think such a thing wouldn't matter at all but because they had stopped all the stop. SNITCHING would brag obsessed. Ask Me with this. newts in the ad they would sniff and they'd played at nothing to do with a plane belly saw mm-hmm the police are really a class unto themselves and that they can read minds and they're just like don't think about the matches whenever the police uh-huh because the police just steal whatever they want in they get away with whatever they want exactly and there's this there's this fantastic encounter towards the end when Mike just about made enough money to get whatever next port of their plan is gonNA is GonNa move forward and they they get a isolated by this call and they put their hands up in school and he just walks up behind them puts his hand into their pockets. Takes out all their money walks around without even so much as a holiday do as it were he just sort of one fluid motion takes all of their money out of their pockets and then starts the conversation and it's it's absolutely spectacular the again the parallel to now and in certain communities where this is the issue that people are really living with will end the roller astonishing lack of you've Roenick self-awareness. As quite how the government was behaving in Russia was oil. Well this is again it goes back to the idea of of how south you you know. How self aware were filmmakers? When they were putting this out was this propaganda purely to say that the west and capitalism was wrong or is there an element of saying aren't are you know we're not exactly right either guys will? You've you've got the the big dividing line in Soviet cinema isn't that you've got pre took hosts Game Post Oko Ski Soviet cinema and stuff before was will like spice rice and where the blast also is is better than the West. The West is time we watched acres. XP expe- one the other day and those moments when they come across an American spaceship and everyone is dead and they've died from using a weapon gas because America's facial English writing on the walls. And obviously that's because the less advanced than upside down writing pens ends and they just use pencils all that jazz. Yeah no I've I've I've seen that But it's you know it's it's unusual and Obviously yeah I mean I've lived in the states for a while about about eleven years now for you coming from the states. Does it seem like an indictment more of communism capitalism. Where do you think at foals goals? I hate to be wishy washy but as feels like is just a critique of any sort of system and I don't necessarily see yeah there's a a lot of running after chattel but still even see that when it comes to the Soviets in just the way that they want to do it. I mean just this whole idea of wealth and status yes and who lorded over who and the corruption of the police and the knowingness the idiosyncrasy of the the higher ups. Yeah it feels like is critiquing every system all at once but I think as a as a slightly state controlled media or they're not as bad then as there's maybe back in the forties and fifties but the argument there would be you know stupid leaders and corruption and money like the decadent West. Nothing like Russia so like even if that wasn't quite what the filmmakers we're doing I think it was definitely explained. At least at some point to someone is definitely big allegorical about the pitfalls of capitalism on our little characters adventures the locals in the and the travelers finally before travelers are presented with their with their ultimate choice. They go to the home planet of one of our locals and it's absolutely decimated the oxygen isn't breathable. And this is that bit of the film is i. Think the peace of the film that is most like. That's the that's the sort of thoughts the really juicy bit of it. They land on this planet. That's absolutely decimated and the the locals make this all for travelers which is that look We can't actually get to earth in this thing because we can only get as far as this other planet will be killed on this other planet so we can't take you any further But what we could do is we could all all do the singing thing by this planet for cheap but some oxygen after that avenue goes half half the planet and we have the planet. And that'll be pretty nice. End The most charming offer you've ever saying end. The travelers response is that they he goes. Solid tries is to kill himself in the toxic atmosphere of the planet rather than committing himself to a lifetime with these other two. And it's just as far as and as I say the film sort of moves through these vignettes but it's Oh my God absolutely poignant. He sat there in the dust of the dying planet. Slowly it's succeeding on its toxic atmosphere with these two guys saying come on come on. It won't be so bad boys in in the eighties. What was Russia's feeling about like environmentalism? and that kind of stuff like was. That was a topic that was being exploded. Lost over there. I mean awesome stuff. Oversee Japan was quite into into environmentalism. And that era well. This was the same year as the disaster. Yeah and it's and it's so I think this is just before they got really wary of all the coin of modern technology in this kind of thing Because the most of this stuff you get afterwards is is more in response to. We tried that and it didn't work rather than this era where it's a bit more hopeful but I do love that they're utopia is still this Alpha planet which is covered in beautiful fauna and flora. Like pretty pretty people people in see through dresses and dogs like sexy star Star Trek Planet. Have you guys ever seen American astronaut. I highly recommended. It's a musical comedy adventure film from Korea Maccabi and there were parts of it. That reminded me of this as far as when when they're on that smaller planet the planet. And there's a really awkward thing where the guy kind of jumps up in the film switches to slow moat. Say Says Yeah. This is low gravity they do some low gravity stuff in American astronaut. Where there's a guy going across basically it's a big sound stage filled with sand and it's shot just slightly slower so it does look like that's no gravity and towards the end of that they end up going to Venus? which is this Utopian world and all all these beautiful women and they're all in white deafness dresses so and the the science fiction and that is really really low budget like when they are traveling from Roma Planet to another planet? It's done a series of still images and the spaceships almost look like trains. Amazing amazing. Yeah it's great and this this is what era was that from. What is that from? That was early two thousands case equipment. Because the other thing I was going to say this is this is going back to the sixties stays is that it reminded me a bit of Barbarella in in. It's like absolutely ludicrous. Cultural observation like sort of almost zoo zoological adventure adventure through another society's culture This is again and again in the vignette sat kind of away just going from location to location spaceship ship to spaceship with not much care on how you get in between as you say these sort of stilted images because for for this one in Kenzo we are. I love it. We are are insulated. The spaceship whenever they're traveling because there's no windows on the spaceship so we're with our heroes and in fact there's one point where they're like. Oh no what's happening. What's happening was happening always landed? Oh okay did we take off. Is that happened okay. Yeah there's no like shaking the camera anything even say like you are now in motion exactly and there's no sort of Schultz of them looking out the window with all of the spectacular stores and views of planet Earth. And you know what part of that I don't know how much Russia had seen Russia. The mass culture had seen of those photographs of the Earth from space at that point into space. Yeah but did they. I mean I don't know if they took pictures while they were checking but like the spice they forgot the camera guys. We don't have any room for it. Just takes drawings because we've got a bit of a problem. The dog is not taking photographs. But it's I mean you know what I mean in in American culture this sort of NASA. That'll all is a huge piece of propaganda. That says look good. We're doing look at space. Look at all this so it was interesting to see that absent from film that is extensively about space travel But again it's because it comes like everything up until SA- Loris and took off skis depression-era Russian Scifi so obvious. This offer was spice rice voice to the stalls. But you know they were Ralway. The spices is Tim. Is this that more responsible. And you've seen all Spaced off. We're just going to be in the ship. I think that there is absolutely no way. Russia wasn't like pumping we beat America to space into every home in Russia. They were very proud of. I wonder if that's how this got financed because it is quite a politically charged film and obviously a lot of films were completely financed by the government at this time over there so there wouldn't have been a lot of money in it if it wasn't government approved. I wonder if that is element of it. The idea that Russians have this A this advanced technology because they are Russian and that the space traveler went to Russia because it is Russia if that was a part of of the message the film Islam Away while whale did we as humans are depicted as significantly in advance of this culture sort of morally and societally. There's no there's no way you can. You could say that. Even you know post Galore. And we couldn't claim to be as advanced technologically or as you know with with space travel as the aliens were vital able to teleport to our world and they have these Max of entire solar systems and stars and all that kind of stuff things that we didn't have that point fairness I love those maps so I mean so much of the design of this film is just gorgeous in. It's that I don't WanNA use the S. word. I don't WanNa say steam Ponca but is that like we talk about the used universe. This is like us thrown away and reclaimed universe shabby chic. Soy very rest arrest. Rusty Sifi But it is. I mean you could say what it is. It's even films like waterworld in this kind of Mad Max kind of a world and and I think when you consider Russia home of the hammer and cycle The obviously they're going to focus on an industrialized Darah Book involve in the nineties. Was it response to things or did it exist before that because obviously it takes place in sort of Victorian Elisabetha nashes. But but where did I mean you know. It feels like this kind of stuff that fed into that mythology rather than being a part of it imagining steam punk was invented by someone who found a warehouse. Full talk parts and cogs exactly useless calls. That don't go any lots of goggles. Season Awesome welding goggles and toll. Pats what can I do with these but yeah no. It's it really does. The internal mechanism of their spaceship is fantastic. It's basically the inside of a bullet get sort of a weird conical shape and at one point when our younger traveler goes to goes to the LOO. They remind him that anyone who goes to the LEO has to put their money on the shelf beforehand. They don't try to steal their money and then he goes out the door. We wait a few minutes and the older traveler says is. He's you know he's not come out with the little yet. OJ admit that's not delude. That's just a trap door or to the outside of his face. Chin scrape pulled living victim in an escape. We injected him ages ago It's calm Colin Bay. One man's escape escape. pod is another man's toilet But it's it's this spectacular esque internal mechanism. Where you don't really know anything does or where it goes up down or left is right but but all of the pieces make sense? And they're not explained it's interesting. I think it's different to things like Mad Max. Some which came before came off towards because those are very much about making new technology out of the remnants of a bygone civilization whereas these these seem to be machines that will bill purpose is still being used as they were. I got a long bygone in the desert. The desert feels like we would definitely dystopia unlike the absence of water and all that kind of stuff. It's a decimal any of the the Remnants this sort of ARCHAEA archaeological all sites of like things that look like they've been long buried in the sand and the NFL players wheel and that kind of stuff. That's obviously that's obviously all found yet. No I competancy what you're saying what I'm saying is that the spaceship is a spaceship. And it's being used as it was built as Royalva van like vehicles in the Second Mad Max film where they cobbled together out of bits of other things and they've sort of knock this stuff together from the Detroit is of a bygone civilization whereas the old stuff in this the stuff from before is at most being used a shelter and often is just lying around. Like they're not known using the I will they just happen to be occasionally the a a bit of a shock like the the end of a boat I still think they harvest off. But but ah hello wanted alone necessarily. It's there's a small variation between the men and the women in this movie and there is there is a very character. Dr Phil Split Down The middle. We don't have any protagonist. There was only people we meet on the way there's obviously the wife of our older traveller But then we meet a woman they try to seduce who gets one over on them. trixie lady Ralph leaves them behind and then later we we do a flash for their sort of jumping around entertaining some people and there's a woman who does a WHO does a phony wall because she walked up to the Ferris wheel sort of sexy funny skit. Walk talk show quite enjoyed. And then there is the exceptionally well endowed a gorge in the tunnel of the prison yes who are or or short squall. A local is quite enamored with and she does that. same fantastic will jump away all the women sort of watch in the film and it's it's a very very it's it's such a cool weird thing to do to to not pointed out but just have all the women do like a one-two-three skip one day three. Skip as they look just to separate it out and now it's a very thoroughly considered considered world that they've built even if none of it makes any sense George. The Ele- made another film that I really WanNa see after seeing this one called thirty three. which is the same guy who plays the squat up Lukin He? He plays this guy who has thirty three not in as being hailed as a hero because everyone else has thirty two teeth so it feels like a place with a lot of the same themes of this as far as just a minor differences princeton him versus other people and it ends with the government wanting to teleport him. Tomorrow's because they feel that maybe that thirty three thirteenth would help him communicate with Martians. And it's just like that was one thousand nine sixty five just watching this film really makes me want to see more of than yellows filmography because it just seems seems like he had some amazing ideas. Well I like the way I like the way that that's what came before because it seems like he was sort of putting his toe in the water of political. Dissenting tangoing. Is it okay. If I'm critical of the system in this way in the sixties and we'll just give him a thirty third tooth we're not gonNA make him black or anything like that. We're I'm just GONNA. We're just going to give him a thirty third tooth and as long as everybody's okay with that then maybe later we'll try putting a bellwether knows but we'll probably have to wait until the eighties until we can troy something like that. It seems like the idea of the space between cultures and the idea of of this inherent. Don't inequity between the groups is quite interesting. It also feels like they're really playing with this idea too because then the other was a Georgian. And we've got the two humane characters. One as George in one is a Russian and I think that that is also being hinted at as far as the differences between the cultures here on earth. I mean we're talking more than just you know bourgeoisie and the proletariat we're also talking about like how are other countries that aren't Russia being treated redoing the Soviet Union so I think that's very pointed thing as well. How different are we actually? We've got different nines but actually everything about us is the same lie. You know the idea that Georgian culture in Russian culture were very similar. Say for you know A slide from geopolitical boundaries. A couple of also very very clear cultural differences but inherently someone from Georgia might be closer to someone from Russia than someone from one indeed Russia and the other Russia. Yeah it's it's not standing depiction of the variants with the lack of variance in the employed variance between individuals. All I all. I adore this this weird little. USB Internet of things button. They have that they can point at people to see whether they're higher or lower culture and end the just absolute of randomness of it and the idea. It's consistent when it points that you will always does the same color at you but the idea of what does that even even mean and who decided which one was better which one was worse and does it actually mean anything and it goes back to the star belly inches of course in the idea that will just just because we're different. Does that mean different or you know how much of a difference is it. Is it just the color of the thing or is it. A bigger higher Morton in anything beyond that little light in. I think that's all it is. Yeah and that the like you said earlier you can switch when you go to do that. Little Planet which is just seems like a rock in the sky. It's like Oh yeah no. This is a patach planet so the chat-lines have to bow to us. They have to incuding US instead. Exactly exactly they take them go. Hey Hey don't forget you've got to do that on this planet and above all things they have to honor this this nonsensical sequence of bowing and cooing. Because that is a greater said than theft. If you ignore your stature make sure you're wearing your bowel l. into your bowels. Otherwise its lifetime in Boston. He's actually stealing stuff tights fine. Otherwise Bats Villa nails talking about the Georgia versus Russian thing. I think that that is really coming through at the end to when you have both of her character's transported back to earth and they don't seem to have any memory necessarily of pook until they both see this flashing yellow light which is like police light and they both Kutu it right there and then they remember each other and who they are so it's like this whole journey has allowed these two people who might not normally ever converse talk to each other to finally actually connect here here back on earth see I really loved the PTSD sort of element of it where where it was sort of two soldiers who hadn't really engaged with each other hearing a occur backfire and then catching each other's all eyes and realizing Oh my God it was you along. The film starts out with our younger travel or asking the older traveler to help a homeless person than any instantly says yes and the end the notion that the to reach out to connect But then coming around and realizing that they wouldn't have remembered the shared experience they would buried it so deeply. Had it not been for this trigger. That set them both off at the same time and then again in true form for this film it ends just finishes with a very big on endings of. They often just stop sometimes. Sometimes I guess that's better. Are you doing an episode on the air. I remember. See that on your list. We did an episode the year. Yeah I I missed it. Yeah I watched that for the first time recently as well as a bureau come in the UK and that also just kind of stops. Yeah you might want to check. Who did the audio commentary on that? I really nice. It's lovely disc. I'll definitely give that a listen. Yeah we did it. It was kind of Nice we did episode slash commentary for that so our episode was the commentariat vice versa. It'll be on that BLU ray that okay on the list when you first. I talked about this this season. You know without making it all all about money. There's a certain economy to just finishing when you're done isn't there. There's a certain style you're welcome sort of stoicism to end their back on earth and they recognize each other. And that's what we need to tell you about it. We don't need to know if he gets his bread for his wife. We don't need to know if the leak at the factory is fixed. We don't need to know the famous violinist ever gets his violin. We just need to know that they have this experience and it was real and they'll always remember it and no one else believes them and they may not remember it. Dan I think he mentioned Solaris earlier in the Salon has a little bit bigger of a budget. At least they had like a big set and everything but really that movie is pretty fricking cheap to win in the first half of it is all on earth and just you need a pretty location. You've got that six minute car ride and then boom you're out in space. There is none of this all right. Let's get them in capsule and shoot them up here and have him wait lists and all. This was the one weightless sequence which is gorgeous but that looks like a shot basically looks like somebody's den so it's that that weird mix of practical locations and science fiction all in Wine Linux. It also reminds me of a film that would come a couple years later which was on the silver globe. Where and it's like there's parts of that are just shot in a city? Yeah when there's a bunch the other stuff that's all shot on the beach so you're just using these locations here on earth but shooting them in such a way that it looks like they're not on earth thiamine anna-corina past state. Of course that's got me thinking about Alphaville and just that use of locations as science fiction where it is just this Paris of nineteen whatever. And we're going to make it look like a science fiction fell. Yeah well there's the I think I might mentioned on the law steps that we recorded with you but I had jeff either just watched about to watch a Swedish Sifi. I think Swedish called Yara which is a beautiful beautiful so I if I felt but his all locations as no builds and they've just found these amazing spaces to be the inside of this enormous spaceship whereas Gen produced a really nice quite small. Soy Phone call native a few years back and they built well. Joan revill John Adjourns designer. We stay inside of the ship but when he went to Earth you found this was the does that does this beach up by Liverpool. And it's absolutely the tide. goes out like you wouldn't don't believe and then literally so we go there at about five in the morning. It's not really maybe even gotten there at four and we were filming the these scenes so all of the sand is wet because the toilets golbright out. The Sun is rising. It's reflecting off of the total Title Sand go end. There's no city on the Horizon Isan and as far as you can see. There's a little bit of of urban buildings covered in fog and it's spectacular but the water comes is in at over a foot every ten seconds and so so people. It's quite dangerous. It's very very dangerous and we only we also only had about on our filming so the there is this kind of use of environment that you can make but equally. It's it's also you know it's always. There's a reason people build houses houses. There did some city stuff. We used a lot of Brita list architecture which in post World War Two UK was a hugely popular just oil And so we were able to find all these buildings that were just sort of innately geometrical in sort of geophysics Cute there we go easy for you to say you just Jada physics in a weird ways it spheres but yet no it was it was it was fantastic but then CR was gonna talk about something like the prisoner where again. This is a place that exists. Dan will remember the name of the village Marianne Port Marion Wells That's a real place that exists lists and somehow they were able to shoot the entire TV series. There is though it was the science fiction compound. I love that kind of thing where they use real life locations Shinzo as other worldly otherworldly truths lots of places for Mars or shot in Morocco. Because the red sand always a fun one. Yeah Yeah they use a lot of the brutalises architecture in Mexico City for total recall and we talked about Gatica just so much of that film. I mean it's All the future and there's a couple of shots of rockets but that's about it in it's just the locations that they chose for so much of the film made it look like it was otherworldly. I one of my favorite things living in London is genuinely so much of London. Looks like it could be a science fiction film set and it's it's it's all just a pressure hose away away from being from Vegas It really is between the subway stations and and everything else. There's such tremendous architecture architecture and it's it's it's a great thing when films used that because it is just taking the world around us and making us look at it in a slightly different ways not will you. We just finished rushed picture earlier. This year. coal possessor which is going to be at Sundance in January. Brian Cronin Bugsy Picture and that's a sort of high concept sci-fi set in a if not an all now than very near future and the locations people did some great work and the setback people. Oh did some amazing work. Both we do a few builds but there was a lot of location shoots as well in and around Toronto and they found these really fantastic slightly. We had places to fill all right. Let's go ahead and take a break. And we'll be back right after these messages. I they're faithful projection booth listener. Chris Stash you here if you're looking for even more for deep dive discussion. Both old and new on and off the cinematic beaten path check out the culture cast every episode. I'm joined by a different guest as we traverse the cinema landscape talking about not only are monthly theme. But also some of the year's biggest films I'm even joined by the host of projection booths. The one and only Mike White so if you WANNA listen to even more conversations on film head on over to culture cast dot com or find it all all pot catchers full android and hello from Cinema Detroit. We are Metro Detroit's only truly independent cinema and also the only first run seventy a week lyric incubator in greater downtown. We deliver an eclectic mix of mainstream art indie genre caulk and classic movies in the heart of the city a like a Somalia choosing wine or a DJ mixing that we handpick Films many of which are exclusive to the Metro area. The the state of Michigan or the entire Midwest Region Cinema Detroit features unique setting in a former furniture store and the warm neighborhood atmosphere including always always fresh popcorn and trade. FAGO SODA and other locally created cheats please visit our website. Cinema Detroit Dot Org for the latest I features and showtimes. You can also like us on facebook and follow us on twitter Tumbler and instagram. We look forward to seeing you soon at four one. Two Hugh six third street in the city for eight two zero one. Jamuna CY everybody everybody. Welcome back. I'm Brent Barrett. I'm Kevin batchelder. I'm Wendy hemp. Brock of viewers guide genre television. Welcome everyone to a special supernatural focus. One and welcome to do the fate of family of podcasts for the genre loving television viewer. I'll come to Saturday. Be Movie Real. Welcome to the top genre characters of all time countdown L.. Today we're GONNA be talking about game of thrones season three find US tuning into SCI FI TV dot com. This is Andrew from we hate movies and you're listening to the projection booths. If you feel like laughing after listening to some serious film discussion and I'm over in our show. WHM PODCASTS DOT COM. Every Tuesday new episode set drops US ragging on bad movies whereas here at the protection. But if they're talking about good hardy cinema related stuff go here for the cinema. Come to us for the last afterwards. We hate movies every Tuesday In Eugene students to Scoble yes they wanna live in the news shimmy northeast video dump or mobile Piglets mortared sally. I am edition. SCUTTLEBUTT could sit off a half second. ooh ooh ooh Compania Glukhikh. We'd be gambling this butts. I bought in Yeah Cool Ronan. showbusiness released is assigned. McClellan savell cody. Convenient you at Cmu thus all right we are back and we were talking about. Kim's odds are so few years after Qin's came out well quite a few years after Kim Sadza came out. The director actually did a remake of his own film. which we've seen that before we've we we all know about things like fun games or and this is interesting using because he made it into an animated film and I have to say I love the animation style for this it just it looks really gorgeous and they change shit up a few ways but then there are other places where they kept Cantata? Almost exactly the same. They've they've got rid of the the slightly likely complicated backstory as to why they're carrying violet and they've just made the oldest professional musician. They've made them related to them Randomly in the street they are actually. They're actually uncle in a nephew which is funny because in the main in the in the original film terms like uncle all in brother and father and son are used as terms of respect and endearment with communist society. Yes my brother this kinda think thank you yes uncle whereas suddenly they're just like this is making his uncle. Why not why not? They'll be related even though you don't not necessarily at least until the the reveal. I didn't think that he was actually related to this guy. I don't think they are. Are they related. You made any original. No no no in the remake because yeah because at one point they finally do confirm that he actually is related to his uncle but for the rest but I was just like oh no. He's trying to scam the sky by calling him uncle and saying that you know. Oh Yeah I'm so and so's son but then at one point they finally do figure out that he actually actually is related to his uncle. Well and he sort of painted his in the in the live action film. He's much more of an artist scholar and in the remake remake of Athletic Jersey on which is quite American sporty. You've introduced cell phones Stephanie. Yeah it's it's not really the same on a character is A. I love that they use the Mama Song as the guys ringtone. That is fantastic. Such a nice way the terrible song long in order to then have that. Come back as the the the song we're going to Busk to it. was I really enjoyed. That must be hit some place on earth. Well that's the thing. It must be an old Rueda song or something feeling the Georgian folk song because in the in the live action feature. The little guy says that his mom was from Georgia does so I- slightly wonder if it's a Lullaby that she sang to him as a baby and he happens to know it and it's just because obviously like they don't care about being time indepth forgetting the lyrics Wrong in any of this. So they're just shouting the words rough tune if things be I always wondered if that was a totally back to maybe his mom was George in in that came from before but but yeah and I love In the in the live action as well and I can't remember what it is now. They do actually sang a song that they would have had to pay the modern rights to if they did but yeah yeah I was thinking about that. I couldn't remember what the singer visit some enchanted evening evening. I don't remember I feel like it was more modern than I feel like when they're doing the violin and they're in the cage and they get told they after Neil is. Is it possible to play a song so badly that you off. How could you possibly think it was? The same thing is obviously completely completely different. That's terrible for one thing. It's rare that someone gets to remake their own work or which used remake at work even so fun Little Romp. It reminds reminds me a little bit of like Three kings of Tokyo or The Women of Belleville that sort of cheerful animation soil oil. I think I mean three photos. Three Godfathers of Turkey. I thank you for a bit but yeah that sort of jolly coined of end. It is same for your younger audience. I think it is. It is a little bit more childlike. But it's still really fun piece. I was just looking up. That apparently are older older character in the original film when he's in his apartment they're playing a bit of a film called Cutoff. Ski From Nineteen forty-three in that has the line. Mama Mama what shall we do. I love it nicely. Done Sir nicely done. I don't know where that one comes from and yeah you could be right. It could be Georgia folk song Lullaby by. Yeah so there is a connection. There brilliant brilliant. I was reminded a lot of the guy who used to do animated segments on on MTV quite a bit and then he actually ended up being able to feature films where he does almost like a three cell animation where it's like the same image. It's just three different ways so it's kind of this wavering thing to it but the character design in skains odds are cool Qatada. The remake reminds me of that type both character design especially the uncle with the hair going up in out kind of thing. Mike is Struggling to remember the name. Bill Clinton I like like that. Were playing the classism even more in this that. He is wearing a Tuxedo through the whole thing. He's very upper class coming from earth and then he's thrown into the lower class and it doesn't matter that he is a professional cellist and that he is seen as very important person on earth he is just like everybody else. Yeah I mean it's obviously the they've really hammered into the close for that. Really William really underlined it in. I'm not sure if I like that. They styled to look much more like aliens. I kind of like the idea of the aliens looking EXAC- like us. I like the way they look but I'm with you. I prefer them to be humanoids. Will it's like. We were saying earlier about the ball. It's obvious that he has changed some things that he he may be felt. He couldn't do the first time like having they couldn't those guys in full prosthetics have them be puppets. CJ or whatever the boss of the same and then they've change the Indians and they also definitely changed the guy from pook or maybe it's not from Luke but the guy who transports them. I love the head hold. aureus got the flowers going around his head and he just different dynamic his name. He is an interesting design because they've got him. He is still alien but he looks humanoid enough that their suspicions aroused the beginning and they really. They chop out quite a bit. I mean especially at the end the whole idea of them. I'm going to that very fertile. Almost identify Planet is just gone. Well this is sort of wondered with the Flower Halo on his head if they were GonNa to do something with the time travel about that but as you said they just didn't really it seems like he he didn't want to over complicate things by introducing another another Shelter as well like it's it really goes but Clinton so it's GonNa it's got to something out. I mean my granddaughter granddaughter over yesterday and has really helping to experiment on her and have her watch this film and see if it is a kids film or not. How does he respond to it? Unfortunately actually your mom took her back for DADS. I mean she came over. She took her out of the skinner box. And then it was all a whole different thing. You were ringing the bell at everything be want food. You have to hit the spouse hit the button hit not that bad. And that's the shocking about Grandpa told you about that now It's a No. It's it's funny because it it. It does seem like a bizarre wholesomely highfaluting clean of film but equally truly. It's playful enough that you can see to where it would appeal to children as well. Yeah especially once it's been culture unified. Yeah when you see like the little girl Castilian who gives the piece of wood to one of the guys. I'm just like okay. This seems almost like who's from WHOVILLE. Yeah yeah that that they are tune but much more cartoony I. It's also means that it's sunny. It's interesting that they've gone so much. More heavy handed on the the class divide allegory. Stuff given that it is more in every other respect. He's more the aimed at children and so it feels like pixel putting in the old slightly smutty joke for the GROWNUPS. You have to go more of these films with their kids. So they've put in a little this this commentary for the for the parents. I'm really hoping that when they put this movie out that they include the little documentary that they did on Soviet TV about Daniella. That was really nice. I don't know if you guys had a chance to take a look at that but it's called something like like the man from planet can Sadza. We have not. I'm afraid was. His was his place amongst Russian directors relatively revered or was he a working going or was it you know. How do we know how this placed at the time while I think that at the time it was looked at as being okay he? They make very brief mention of Tarkovsky in the film. And I want to say that he actually had a little bit of input on and It's are in the documentary once he had a little bit of Input when it came to Kinsahsa but it felt like this guy was always kind of skirting the edges. Like the first film that he put out Actually had a hit song in it and people are really excited about. This song was walking walking the streets of Moscow. Not so much this movie no no not really though the score for this movie is going for Boo Koo box on Amazon. It's Craz it's a really great aging. It's such a funny thing to have them to very rarely. Do you have people doing something ship music in a film and then also have good music playing in the Selma's while it's spectacular. The the contrast is is great because of it so he clearly had a very musical background then well in he also chose a really really good musician to do the score and apparently the musician could not handle the parts when they were just abusing that violent he would have to leave the studio and have have someone else do that part because he just couldn't handle it but yeah they actually. They interviewed a bunch of people for this documentary and they. It's an interesting way that they put the thing together because we'll talk about Daniela historically and then they'll jump to consolidate. It seems like this was really the movie that people remember him for and and then they go back to the historical and then switched to Kazakhstan. And they just it's like the piecemeal it through the whole thing and I think it was also made while he he was making the coup Kazadi the animated version and it felt almost like a promo piece for that. But it was. I'd say at least in our were long and really well put together. The only thing that confused me was when they would make those jumps from past two Kazaa and I was just like wait. Which which movie are we talking about now but after bit I've finally realized like okay? There's a rhythm to this thing so okay now. They're going to talk about it because they would talk about like. Oh Yeah. The controversy controversy with the Soviet premier the Georgian or whoever it was their initial sounding like Koo so I was like okay. Now I get a now. I figure out what you what you're doing here. I mean there was a long gap those what was it like thirteen years between the remaking the film had done previous to it so in his film before Lori died so I can say that it sounds like what you were saying about. The documentary may be being positive Hey guys this guy is back. He's doing this for for the for the new version the interviews with the guy who did the production design I thought were fantastic. And he even has like the I don't WanNa say Faberge egg that the one. The police ship reminds me a lot of an egg and he was holding up those things. And just yeah just saying like okay. Here's the miniature of this listen. Just he's he seemed like a really fascinating guy and they were talking with some of the actors and actresses and it was just they really at this point in time a lot of people all from the original were still alive so they were able to get some great interviews. Russia miniature is have long been a home of beautiful craftsmanship as allow. Yeah I love it. I was particularly tickled when they put the wheels on the spaceship transplanted its feet for wheels. That was great in pushing it through the Desert Eh. Because you see it moving behind to do so you didn't realize they're pushing it to start with and then the camera cranes up you see that they just pushing yeah. This is now one where I will probably go back to Kazakh quite often just because I had so much fun watching it and I think you can watch it in a lot of different ways and just probably pick Out a lot more things each time I really watched it just last night. 'cause I watch it for the first time probably about a week ago and I was already seeing things things that I hadn't picked up the first time. It's a constant dose of information. It's a constant exposure to a new world. Every bit of it is different. I'm from ours. That said it is really nice. Frugal World Building and this one is right now fairly easy to get mentioned that there's a dvd of it. There's a BLU ray. It has BLU ray coming out but MAS film has put this out all over the place you can find the full version or the version split in two parts. Both of them With English subtitles out on Youtube. No problem and they're totally legal version. So that should be out there for at least another week until you know some somebody makes them mention and there's a copyright strike against them audibly. Right I'm G- I'm going to all right. We're GONNA take another break in play preview for next week's week show Ah It uh UH Uh Uh as where it will be back next week with our first episode of Twenty Twenty. Where we're going to be looking at a lot of films from the one thousand nine hundred sixty nine? This time we'll be talking about Eros plus massacre Kerr until then I want to thank this week's Co host dancer. Jen what is happening in your world so I think I've mentioned it last time I was here. We're still working on our documentary. A monster in house which is a about Tarantulas and the people who love them surrounding the UK's and in fact the world's biggest tarantula the beauty contest as a working not and then Yeah just a couple of the things that hopefully can share with already but soon and how about you Dan. The Canadian film I mentioned earlier in the episode is going through. Its final. Mix In in Soho London at the moment ahead of its sundance preview. So I'm very excited about that. I'm doing some stuff for a couple of TV shows over in the UK at the moment. Yeah Not really much I can talk about specifically but let possesses gonNA come out soon and it's going to be amazing so that fantastic. Thank you guys for being on the show. Thanks everybody for listening. Please head on over to the website projection booth podcasts dot com. Where you can find out more about today's as episode? You'll slow to find a link to patriots where he can make a donation to the show every donation we get helps the projection booth take over this world and Pook mm-hmm mm-hmm cooled. Uh If you enjoy Oy this show and want more people to know about it head on over to itunes leave a comment and rated five stars. Make sure you like insurance on facebook and don't forget to follow us on twitter just search for Christopher for me. Thank you in advance for supporting Christopher media by clicking on the paypal button and by clicking through to all the sponsors who support Christopher media dot net most importantly we'd like to take the time to extend an extra special thanks to you. Christopher media could not exist without your support thank you for visiting Christopher Media Dot Net and thank you for listening Christopher media. Let's make some noise.
42: Biggest Inspirations (w/ Kinjaz)
"This is a head gum podcast. This next comet comes or Maya mean, she tells it best of the best which I've never been described. She said I need all this advice that actively listened to process and then completely ignore because I'm stubborn but keep up the good work. Not only my also stubborn. But this is the exact same protocol. I have when eating anything terrible for me. I actively eat it digest it. And then completely forget that. I ate it. So they don't feel like crap person, sweat guess, we're twins two three four. If you're looking for advice from real girl who might not have the answers goddamn. She'll just the newbie on your. Just a tip and advice podcast hosted by me, mega attune. Sometimes I can't solve my plans. And then I feel like no one wants to hang out. So that's why today, I not only have one friend. I have three friends to help me help you. We have my we have been and we have Charles Howdy of the Qin jazz. Oh, you guys should say kinder- bang at the same time or something five six seven eight. That's we dad's. We don't we don't talk. Synchronized movement. Not with voice. We quick internet stock to you and found that your friends your fans, your friends, maybe now, you're bins. Don't know what kills me. True. Our fans don't know. What are you? Sure. There are. Found now. Okay. If someone doesn't know what kinder's means what does it mean? Go ahead. Ben Kinshasa's is a compound word with the word kin, which means family and ninjas, which means ninjas, and then you slap those together and you get like a family of ninjas, but can inland also means movement. Oh, it's like a family of or family of movement. Ninjas? Don't forget the though Z because we're hip hop Z because we all like zebras end zebras. I knew half of that. Really? Yeah. Well, I I knew that Ken was family. And then the ninjas didn't know that can in. Kinetic movement. Connecticut energy came up with the name. That's a great question. I wanna say it was a Mike song Anthony Lee combo. That sounds. Yeah. Yeah. It was a name. It was called on boo black ops before that from Nardo. And that's from Naruto course, anime we are geeky anime kids of ninja anime. Around the time that I performed guys one time. Perform I remember that one Ellen Kim and another girl killed you guys on minoa. Yeah. Cindy concubine. Concubines if you search for Congess death of the concubines, you can see Megan you can find that on the internet. Yeah. You can find that on the internet. Wow. We watch it all the time. Does my thick with two. I can just performances actually. Wants to. Oh, you those are first choreography performance for our first performance was free style. Yeah. That sounds horrific to me that was really weird. That was the weary Sal performance. Sounds like I wanna die. I'd never priest sage before my good. I have so many nightmares where I'm on stage. And I don't know the choreography in everyone's doing it. And I have to look to try and like make sure that I'm doing at the same time. She goes those. That was real life. I've had that dream before you get a prank pulled on you. I did on stage where everyone was dancing behind you. And then you turned around and no one was there anymore. Yes. Yes. Was that it can just performance. A was I do remember that performance? They they gave me the frigging cat. Daddy song. And then they're like a Mkhori to it. Now's like, okay years. Learn it. Oh, yeah. We'll learn Dory. Oh my God. We'll learn it. And then, you know, then I performed on stage by myself. I've done a lot of little weird things on stage. You know? Pranks that you pull on each other during rehearsal or you guys just nice to each other. I don't think we. Pretty nice. Yeah. That's like the boring answer. I'm trying to think of something. I mean, when there's like some initiations that happen, then you know, there's other those are kind of. Yeah. Those are forbidden secrets of. Can't talk about scared. That's very good. This is not a podcast about cults. Although I wish it worked. Hod cast people right in with their sticky situations, and we do our best to sound off. And maybe help them. Are you interested in helping help out love good altruistic group? Let's go. So I've been wanting to start a YouTube channel because let's see why they want to. I forgot how to. I've been wanting to start YouTube channel because my friends, and I love to film videos. However, I'm not looking to make it my career anything. I just wanna know how to create a regional content. How do you come up with for videos or projects that aren't cliche? I don't want to end up only remaking other people's ideas from sorta stuck well would you when did you guys make your YouTube channel? I think it started in. Well, it didn't start in twenty ten because that's when the crew started. I feel like I saw I wasn't even on the crew in his started. But I remember I think I saw the first Kinjo video maybe like in two thousand eleven or twelve. Yeah. Okay. It was the dance anime video year all the effects. Yeah. I was I. Girl. There's a bit. There's three girls the three of us the the final the final. Affects in many. Yeah. Oh, my favorite thing about the YouTube channel is at all the videos, you put up our so quality because right now, even if it's like in the studio, right? It's like you've got formations you have a moving camera. It's not like a class video, which is like, my least favorite thing. And it feels like every time you upload. It's going to be something better than what's out there already. And it's consistent from video video, regardless of what dancers what Quakers or who shot. It. It's always good. Thanks to vibrancy upshot. They're really good. So in order to answer. This person's question, would you say like have good team around you? Yeah. Well, I mean, unless you are like a one man team or one woman team like I don't know we we enjoy doing things with each other. Because it's way more fun that way. And it's a lot easier to focus on what you're really good at if you can kind of like divvy it up and divide and conquer and let everybody on a play to their strengths. So. Yeah, kinder's is really good at that. Yeah. I mean, that's what's good about having so many people how many people are in congest thirty five thirty five sometimes thirty six sometimes sometimes sometimes. Every four years. Why gets the being there? Sometimes. Wow. That's I mean, I think that's super smart because as someone that used to try to do it all on your own. It's you're going to die. You're gonna break in having people around you that you can't divvy up like that is so smart, but in terms of creating original content like there's so much dance out there so many videos, whether it's class or concept. How do you? How do you make sure that you guys are making original stuff that hasn't already been done in? I think there's a few ways to look at it creatively. I think flipping things isn't, you know, isn't like a bad thing. I think flipping things is a cool thing if you know, how to flip it the right way, in what way kind of the terms of making it a intentionally original to you, you know. And I feel like that's really what it is. If you are intentional with how original this is to yourself than its original. Because at the day when you make something there's always gonna be people that say, oh, you're biting this your by that. But I think if you truly believe in something and you. See it as a regional, even if it may be a dancing. You know, I think I think believing in it will make it original is that kind of makes sense. Taking it from a choreography standpoint. Or like putting together a set all every move kind of has been done in order. But how do you how do you think that the piece that you're making is original or feel good about it? If it's kind of like, well, this is just another dance. Like, do you have a litmus test or kind of checklist of something that you go through when you're creating in the process to be like I am behind this fully because it is original. Or is it just like does it feel good enough? I think a lot of it has to do with field. But then like if you really think of it from like, a Dan sent point like, you have to know your foundation, and then from the foundation, you can use your creativity and artistry to like ramp up everything else past that. So yeah, it really does go into just the overall pitcher then plus like if you have a good team around you then you can see how it looks that you can get some input. And then and then produce awesome content had ever shown someone a piece of yours or we're teaching something but didn't want notes, and they're like, I think you should do this. And you're like pipe down. This is my. Every now, and then you're like good idea. All the time. All the time. It's like, hey, you wanna see my new piece, but it's more more. So like, hey, I wanna show you something like, you know, that was great. But I think he should work on. Feel like I've been getting notes like that my whole life, even when I was a Popper and just trying to ask people I ache. How do you do that? Okay. In wash my freestyle. What did it do better? They just tell me stuff that I'm like, okay. I would like to hear something good. I think that's a part of it. Right. Being creative is is taking that input and really looking beyond that beyond your emotions. And and I think that's a part of it. That's why super hard keeping the emotion away. When you're showing somebody something for the first time because it's so vulnerable like you've worked hard at this. It's taking hours it's taking a lot of creativity in you're like, here's this and they're like, well, I don't like this move. I think you should maybe do that. It's like you didn't coy. And you know, how much this move means to me. This is my favorite. Time is all of my emotions body. Roll have snaking from popping sonic. You know, your stuff, sir? I never said that this is. Do you have a favorite video speaking of YouTube channels? Like from our chat both oh video of ever seen. That's not yours and your favorite one from the. Oh, man. Well off the top of my head just thinking about favorite YouTube videos of all time. I would say music box by cloud. Oh, yeah. Good. I show so many people that like all my non dancer friends. I'm like, you probably watch this just to open your mind up. Yeah. The music box by day. No cloud Campos. You should look that up. If you're listening anybody else, very favorite video, these cloud. I feel like all of these videos m j one thousand was so sick. Yeah. Houston won the he did in the parking lot. Where you like. Yes. Hopped over a car you percents. Yeah. Ktar trick is wild. The way. Mine works is so crazy. I mean, I guess mine would be like pacman videos, others not. I mean, there's this one where he used a he was doing totting video, and he was transferring balls through little warp circles, and that one was just like, okay. Yeah. You're you're the shit. Yeah. I think that's that's mine. I think as I get a kick out of like allusion stuff. I'm just like oh. I also really enjoy Dietrich's trick shot. Video had those are told us that he found out that all these other people like edit there's. He's a say so much time that made me feel like also then you're just legit the best trick shot. Don't and. I do I've done a few tricks with him. And it's like some of them one shot would take two and a half hour. This is my whole day. Are you look like you just did it? Take so long. He's broken. My fridge that way. And my shoulder. Must be great. Very much so and then favorite video on the channel. There's so many hang I'll have to come off top. Because this just came to mind. I when I first saw Anthony lease icy fire at the Korean Bill. I don't know if I should reveal the location. Oh, well, I think people know by now. But yeah, it was I was like what is this location? It's like overlooking the ocean and the wind blowing the music, and obviously the movement. I was like dang. That's really good. That's why. I think I mean just off the top two because there's so many Pat cruises climax videos. Shot in China. The location was breathtaking the movement breathtaking. Breath left after this video took it all. Can't really think of a favorite light. 'cause there's so many but just thinking back to like Anthony's chew. What was it? They. The Crimea river. That's what I was gonna say Tessa, wait. Yeah. Because I was kind of the first time we really used effects like that John she from vibrancy. He really kinda like made affects like that blew me away by the time. I saw like the first round of it. I was like, whoa. Oh, also Veen's glitch mob. Oh, yeah. Down super good. What does it call? Can kill us. I was like being kill me. Now. That was like because we did this whole Kim just chronicles thing where we created like our own universe. You know, sorta like a marvel universe sort of thing and Ving like a three part series of his character. And he really went in. And yeah, it was shot. Really? Well, there's a whole cinematic. And there's a fight sequence. There was fireballs all of that all the elements that work for us. When you're making videos. What's the most important part? Do you think if anyone wants to make videos like kindles like how do you? What would you say to them? That's really important. Would it be like the pre production of it would be the location? Would it be the actual Corey would be how you film it? What quit and use? What do you think is the the one tip that you'd give to make quality videos? Yes. Literally everything, but what the best part like the one that. Maybe maybe not the best. But the one that you either like the most or the one that you think is the absolute most necessary. I'll give you a deeper answer out. Always take a deeper answer. I think I deputy identities something that you need to have when you are making videos. I think that's a really important thing to think about before you start making stuff because all the things that you mentioned above are, definitely necessities. And they're always, you know, time to to grow in these departments of locations and video graffiti and choreography, but I think having an identity of what you wanna share is probably the best advice. I can give. Yeah. That's a message. Vice I sure because in the end people are watching for you, you can shoot it on a Nokia. Can you do that? I don't think you can Nokia's don't have phones they can sneak. I like that a lot. So to answer this question, creating original content. I mean, be you your original, you are truly. Oh, yes. One more quest. We. I wanted to know if you have any advice for a dancer who needs to strengthen their core muscles. I found out that I have an interior pelvic tilt, which means I have a weaker abdomen and back muscles than the average person. I'm twenty three and constantly feel like I should let dance go because I feel like I'll never achieve the physical strength needed to be competent dancer. Do you have any advice about exercises? I can do to increase strength or should. I just start wrapping my head around the fact that I may never be able to dance the way I'd like to from tilted in turbulent. That's well one. We're not doctors or physical, therapists. So we can't give you live mice. But what I what I will say though. So I have a friend who recently told me that she was born without a hit socket or a hip bone or something like that. So like literally without that. And so she had trouble she hits like learn how to walk again. I guess you just kind of a weird concept, but she said that she had to go through all kinds of physical therapy to learn how to compensate for that, you know, her handicapped for lack of a better way to put it, and she's an amazing dancer, so I guess all to say that if you really want something there's all kinds of ways to figure out how to compensate for your inability to do something naturally. I don't know to what degree, you know. This person is injured or it has that. Sort of a disability. But I definitely know there are ways to strengthen muscles around certain areas to kinda help build up and support. I mean. Yeah. Core strength is so important to everything I think everything comes from your core like your center of balance to yet being able to carry your weight and all that. So do your research don't be discouraged. 'cause I know it's possible. Because again, I and I found this out recently. I was my mind was blown like dang. How did you learn how to walk again? Like what's that like, and how did you learn how to dance on top of that? And amazing, so yeah, it's possible. What's your favorite core? Exercise on the because because I need something to do after. I don't know guy need to work on my core myself most of the time, but what I do before performances to like kinda like get a tight. So I don't use my balance on stage. I do the Russian twists knows gas because he really feel the engagement. Yeah. If you don't know the Russian twist is basically, you're balancing on your sits bones. And then you have your like both of your arms going side to side almost touching your for. I'm so the ground. I didn't know these recalled sits bones. I mean only a lot as instructors. But. Pointy parts of your rear. If you sit on those like, new sits bones. That's another good answer to you because Pilates, I took it once, and I was really really sore after it. It's so much more. Wild core. I actually liked doing all my Abbott. Whether it's the Russians twist but doing it on the boasts ewbal that half rubber ball. And and then, you know, obviously because you're having to find your balance on like this sort of airfield rubber ball. You're engaging so much of your core including like even your back like your lower back. So I think it's kind of a combo compound sort of thing to us if you're going to do regular crunches and stuff like that on there. But I use the bow allot. That's a really good answer. Always forget about that. Charles. Exercise. Yeah. I think if you're will I don't I don't know how severe the problem is like with your core. But are like with the muscles around it. But I also had a weak core. And I think I just was disciplining myself to do like a routine every time ago the gym before I work at any muscle. So I always work my coronary start out with like deep inclined situps, and then I go into like hanging leg raises. And then I worked the oblique with weight. So I think you should build up into that. And then once you have that routine, it'll build your core really strong. It's also good to use much muscle confusion. So don't you just do the same exercise? Every time you go to the gym Kazan. Your body will get used to it and you get that plateau effect. So it's always cool, and it's just way more fun to just switch up your routine. So I always like if I feel like I'm doing the same thing. And I'm like sick of it. Then I'll look up. Other exercise that you can there's tons of stuff that you could do, but muscle confusion is a good way to build strength. Yeah. Absolutely. Do you have a favorite warmup song a ho Queen? Don't stop me. Now. That's so I would be pumped for life. For me. When anytime I hear Drake trophies. Winnings. He's the creator. Look it up. Well, I don't know if I've warm-up song I have a playlist I made on my Spotify called hype town. It's the same playlist. I use to work out before I go out. It's my pre workout. What are some songs on high town? We got a childish Gambino swept Nance. Perfect song to jump rope to jump rope. Oh, joe. Before maybe one day. I'll do it. I'd probably suck scared. Okay. Fine. I'll do it. Double Dutch scares me. It's because it's like you only have a window of opportunity and miss it. Every time. So don't go for it. Then I'll never miss it. Very deep silver D before we take a break. What is the best way to motivate yourself in order to have her team? Whether it may be an advertiser workout routine or dance routine or just like a routine of health. What's the best way to motivate yourself to keep this going? I think for myself knowing what you want as your result ahead of time will help you get started. Because if you just kind of start something aimlessly that you kinda don't have a direction like you don't even know what you're looking for. So it's hard to stay in that rhythm, especially when you don't have this goal. So at least for myself, if I have let's say your goal is to get a six pack. The now, you know that that's what I need. So you're going to do everything you can to get there. Whether that's adjust your diet to do tons of abex or sizes to all that. Now, you know what you're trying to get. If you don't have that. Then you might just be like, I just wanna work out more. And then once you start doing that you might kind of lose hype. And then it might die out. I feel that do you? What about you? I can't say much to motivation because like like what motivates me is like different from like what actually think it like should be like a regardless of motivation. I think you should just create a system for yourself that we just do it. This is what I have to do to get there versus motivation 'cause you could lose that moment. Fresh air. Yeah. I think will. Thinking about why you're doing it in the first place. I feel like is like a big thing that that will always take you back to wire China get these routine set, and then consistency, you know, wanting to get consistency rather than. Like not achieving your goal. But like being sad that didn't couldn't do everything. But basically doing everything in your power to speak consistent. Yeah. I think all those together for sure I think the one that I do the most I think might be banned is like having a deadline or a goal in mind. And then maybe after a certain checkpoint. If you did like if your goal was to get back, if you like start seeing the numbers, go down the scale or the definition, then it's like, yeah. Now, treat yourself for all the hard work and not get navy remotivate you because then you're looking forward to the next time. You get to have a slice of cheese game a little cheese tree the Angie. Cheesecake. On that note, we are going to take a quick break while the king just give us an extra piece of advice. You can find on Meghan between dot com slash podcast. And we'll be right back. Jan we're back in anyone do abbots or sizes while we were gone. I did a little bit. If you do you ever feel like you're constantly holding in your core? Just a little bit. Like right now. Do you feel like you're like I am. No, right. Started flexing. Involuntarily. Full flex. But definitely just like supporting your back a little I feel that I feel like a slight burn. This comfortable like in a long time. So I'm like, relaxing everywhere on. The chair now. Before we move onto our tip jar segment. What's going on in the world of Kenya's? Oh, you know, just a bunch of ninjas just punch in Jess. Going on just the bunch of ninja. The podcast. Yeah. We have a podcast. We started it about four months ago. It's called the kinder's podcasts. Jayme. Right. Well, it's called movement in the shadows. That's kind of the like the behind the hustle origin stories the stories that people may not see or hear off of like any other sort of interview Instagram. It's really the long form version of your life to where you're at now. And why you do what you do things. So Kim just podcast. Yeah. You can find that on all the podcast of. And all we just opened up a new DOE Joe in China in Beijing craze as our second China kindreds Dojo, I when I was in Chengdu and Yadel's crazy was really it was really fun and early next year. We will be opening up our newest spot called the Kim just complex as will be right here in the arts district. Be another DOJ but over here, it's not a DOE. Joe? It's the complex when what's the different? I would really like how rub fantasy factory we're going to have the complex. Yes. Our own fantasy factory. We're still we're still in concept phase in terms of all the elements that we're going to put into it. But it will house literally everything that we can dream of hopefully, so it's going to be like a sound stage or sat or what are you? So obviously there's gonna be a studio. Right. But from vibrancy there their production headquarters will be there a show showroom for kinesthetic, which is our clothing line. And some other surprise elements that I don't think we can quite talk about yet. No only because they're not even finalized. But we are just say this. We are in dream phase right now, and I'm actually really excited for what we're dreaming about. Because I don't know if it's possible. But that's the fun part. We try to make it possible. And obviously, we will also be housing are podcasts there. Hopefully, we'll have a cool. That's so cool. You guys are doing so much. Good stuff. That's the difference. It's not just so much stuff. Like, it's so much good stuff. And that's the difference. Here's our set. Why you make in your sick? You can't tell but I have can just sticker on my shoulder. And I'm very proud. Yeah. Check out their podcast. If you're listening to this one go, listen to theirs after we just didn't episode that I absolutely love because I feel like I haven't gone that deep into my story how I feel about dance or the community class culture. Now, Mike taking a picture of my feet. No. With the sticker. We go. Wikipedia? Feet. Wicky accident. No thing. Yeah. Is an actual website where they take screen shots of your feet, and then you can search he'd be like Selena Gomez. And then I'll show you every single photo of her feet. It's. It's gotta be I feel like I mentioned it way too often. And so I'm probably giving them so much. I don't want people to look up. Look it up years. Like Dietrich's has always been like, you got some big Ashby. And I'm like, oh my God. A half really that. It's really pretty average. I would say for girl my size, but yeah, everything's future feet. And now, you can you have great feet. Thank you so much has really cute great feat. That's why I took my shoes. Really cute. Great is. But yeah, the gas. I think I had a really good time. Yeah. I was I was telling this to you earlier downstairs, this is that was the first sort of real conversation or long conversation. I've had with you, and I really appreciated that that was actually. Yes. So far one of my favorites because I feel like one because it was real and in the moment and learning things, but I really appreciated your openness and vulnerability. That's a hard thing to do. And I said that there too. Thanks for surely stoke for that one at Dr. Yeah. I like it because everyone's trying to be like put together now, which of course, we all want to be put together, but we're not. So that one hundred percent of the time. Yeah. Not always sometimes ever shining moments. But like in between the glories are a bunch of just like gutters show. Both real people. You know what I'm saying? I really liked that episode definitely go listen to that. After this. Subscribe to the kid just podcast. You will not be disappointed. Okay. Now tip jar section to. This is a Twitter generated section so everything here has been sent in by people to my Twitter and their one or two suggestions. And you're gonna give your best tip on whatever the subject is in one word one or two out. There suggestion is one. You can give the best tip. So. We'll do one. What's your best tip for car accidents? Oh. Don't get. Allegri? Oh, oh, Honey, get ever get. Everybody's information. Take a picture of everybody's ide-. Everybody's insurance. And also file a police report. No matter how big the accident is because then everybody's gonna be like, oh, did you report back now 'cause nobody got hurt. And they're like, oh, well, I guess we really can't do much for you. I'm going through this right now if you couldn't tell by my fragments. Shoot. Yeah. So talk to everybody and take pictures home, man. Good. That's also true for me ingrate. Good. Good. Tip for car accidents. We'll go around there, and we can start with you child. Man. Don't drive away you're going to live with the guilt because I drove away once I did. But it wasn't big one. It was like a small one. It was like a, oh, my bad attacked your door, and then like pull over and I'm art I'll pull over and then I spent. That's what happened. Yeah. How that was like when I was in my college days. Yeah. I feel I feel the guilt though. But that's it. That's actually illegal. So how you know is true though. I mean. Could be who knows great. Does the tip is don't do it? Theory. Don't be like me. I think right. Who knows? Don't do it recently. Well, I was in a parking lot. And I was waiting for a space, and then a lady backed up into my car, and then just kept backing up to my car. Just like what's happening card moving. And then the guy in front of me he was honking. Look. She's hitting. She's hitting your Carl's like what? Because I was like, why didn't know no. So this is my car. She's like reversing I'm waiting for like this car. So like, I'm not even looking this way, and she's like in my blind spot. So I couldn't see anything the back of your guests. There's dented my bumper. So after that and the guy that was how game he's like get out of your car. She's about to leave just like, oh, you right? So I got out of my car, and I stood in front of her car. Did what stop there? Your palm out startling. Yeah. You know, I had to explain that. There's a dent in my car now, and I got on formation stuff like that. But yes, that's to file a police report because I didn't do that yet. And this was a few months ago. Like, she didn't know she was hitting here car, just so. It was really loud. Yeah. It's really weird. I don't know. But yeah. Follow up with that. Because I still have not probably should you're right. Okay. I will say don't ever say you're sorry because then you're emitting fault. Oh, and that's not good. Because then you'll lose because then they could use that against you. Like, oh, this person said they were sorry said that it was their faults. Right. Because they're collisions not accident at that time. He just get the information. Take your photos filed a report don't say you're sorry. Cool insurance will handle it piece. Said sorry, I say for things I haven't even done. Blame for Brexit. Like, i'm. I constantly sorry about these. Brexit sounds like a brunch place. Accidents. I guess just be very nice to them because everyone's shaken up and everyone's mad at you to mainly because it's your fault. I've only been into one accident that wasn't my fault. I've been into like five. So I should probably stop saying. I'm sorry except for it is my fault. But my tip would be just to be nice. And know that everybody's also crying and freaking out unless they're not in just you. Or you don't see them. Can joke. I saw you just drove away. You guys have a tip for long car rides a whole actually I have one. So before when Pandora was cool. I would put a comedian in in Pandora. And then like you just get a bunch of clips of like random comedians in how you'd fine like new comedians. That's actually how I found. John malini. Pando at loves John Mullany. Do I I used to do this game with myself, pretty sad. Pandora. She would put the the station the comedy station on. And then the game. I would play is. I would name the comedian before she would like tell me who it was. And if I was right, then I would win against myself. Good. That's really good yourself. It's not, but then it evolved and then now on Spotify. You can listen the whole comedy specials. A good car game. Have you played the played the game contact. Yes. Yeah. I was just thinking that in my head right now, you're like that was going to be you're gonna say like think of good game to play like contact 'cause I was introduced to that game on a car ride. Now anytime we do road trips like it's just contact contact city dude, it's the coolest game. Let's explain it. Because I feel like this is the coolest I hit the people that interested. I think it was Brian Pusa that told me about it. And it's so intense to to like, explain let's try because I think that this would be really cool for people that don't know what it I don't know. We could try. We all know how. To play kind of let me explain it. And if I. So contact you have to have at least three people. Okay. So one person we can call them the game master, they have a word in mind. So we're going to say that we'll say that Charles is the game Astor the game master so the game master flex Inc. A word. Okay. Tell me when you have the word I have the word. Okay. So Charles has the word he's gonna give us the first letter of the word, which is s the letter is s so what the group has to do is find a clue to where the answer starts with the letter s. So if one person figures out clue they say it, and if anyone in the group knows what the answer is then they yell contact. Then the game master has a second to see if they know what the word is if it's wrong, the two people that connected with the contact will count to three and then on one-two-three, then they'll say the word, and if it's the correct word if they say the exact same thing at the same time, we will unlock a second letter. So let's see how visited issue. So when the when the person when the people guessing say contact yet and the game master thinks they know the word that the clue he can say he can. Yell out the outward block, right? Okay. I will block. Okay. So let's see. Let's see how this goes here. Come closer. I'm going to have come closer to me. So we can all share this microphone. So the letter is s now we might have to at some of the silences, but the letter is asked now, let's see if we can connect in and get the the letter. Okay. So. Gravity contact. Okay. So now Charles has away. Right. We countdown and as we can't block during the during June countdown during the cat. Okay. So we're going to three to one and this is Mick. Nope. Three to center. Okay. Cool. All both great. Get mine was more of a movie related think. Oh, yeah. That's what I okay never mind. Explain that day to now we will continue to see if we can connect on a different clue. American idol. Contact one to Simon cow early. I was gonna say. On the dance. I know. Enjoy the ass. But it isn't this. No sorry. Guys. My old best friend contact. Okay. You're not going to us, but you can guess three to one. So this is what's cool about contact. Is you can do layered answer. So obviously, Iran, and I are the only people that would know that what you're trying to do bypass the gay master. You're trying to get something that Charles's not going to know. And so we did. So now that we have that we unlock the next letter, which is you. So the word has to start with SU. So whatever clue the next clue that you give has to be s you. So like if the if your end word was like suspect, you'd have to figure out a clue that ended up being that word. There's also these kind of like bylaws depending on who you're playing with because I play where it has to be pup pup culture or commonly known something that everyone can kind of like Google because then you can have inside jokes with people which fair. Yeah. And you all style where you have three chances to guess the word that the game master is holding in their head. Oh before you actually spell it all out. And then there's a three strikes rule. So if I guess if we like guest three times, and then we lose then game master wins. Okay. More fair way to play. Yeah. Yeah. I was not in a very volatile. We're like I knew Brian was like my sixth grade birthday cake flavor. We're like, we don't know this. Chance. I guess you're right. Okay. Let's do one less last one. So that people would understand exactly if we can get one more will your s you did. So let's we're on you ours usually goes s you, oh is that harder. The word has to have has avenue in it. Just play. Like just the first letter the next the next letter revealed has to be the first letter of just the next that we content that would be way easier. You multiply it by. Divided by seven same answer. Every. Candy. But is it a you or an issue? Yes. What candy. But is it which one is trying to like you? You meant the candy. Oh, sh contact three t what string. I said so let you say Sunday candy. Oh, that would have been smart knows. Sunday, candy by chance the rapper. We just kind of cute chance the rapper with a w. All the puns he missed out. Anyway, that's contact. We did it very well. We're kind of all over the place. That's one of those games that has like so many different rules that I do like your rule better because that would make everyone inclusive, and it's less hard. Like the way I was doing it. No one's having a good time. How many games great on car rides and also longlines at like Disneyland. Oh, yeah. Taxes, really good. Okay. Tip for the best drink like non alcoholic or both or both non alcoholic. Strawberry lemonade half. Strawberry lemonade with ice with sprite or seven up half enough. Fifty fifty can I say this? Fifty two in one divided. A N P non alcoholic drink. I would say the watermelon boot show that they now sell in your local stores. Wow. Okay. Cool in LA. Mike. A drink two things. Most is plot in tears. Water and cold brew slightly chilled would be good. Maybe like, oh, actually, I think three things and whiskey and slightly chilled would also apply to that one. Ask you one ice cube. Okay. Good best drink tip. I don't know if I'm gonna give the same type of answer. I'm not gonna give you a drink. That's delicious. But it's a tip for drinking. Okay. So to avoid coffee stains on your teeth drink through a straw. That is a good drink tip because I get a lot of copy stains. And when I went to the dentist, the dentist was asking. Do you drink a lot of coffee? Yeah. So you drink out of a straw. Like. No. You should. That's how you're gonna. Void those things. Thank you. Well, there's my tip. I'll give you another good drink tip. You know, those straws that kind of those bendable straws those are good drinking tips 'cause you can bend. The mouse. That's true. Tip would be this. Okay. I'll give you two one is a very cheap cocktail, which is just like a shot of odd cut and some sparkling water, and like some blueberries crushed up whatever you have in your. And then the other one is a better way to drink emergency. Which is like my favorite way to do it 'cause like emergency fine and good, right? You put it in a Mason jar and you fill up with ice, and you put your emergency tablet in there and you fill up with tangerine LaCroix. And then you put a little code orange slice on talking like emergency. Cocktail. I thought you were going to be like you just rip the package open you. Pour the patterns he amount. Mouth because that's what we do. A meal out of my. You break it up put half in your mouth saved the other half reliever for later. Do you guys? Speaking of drinks, what is your best to for a drunk friend. Oh, man. Don't drive. Don't drive drink. Lots of water. And don't text an ex. Text the next next Texan. So I wish there is like a way like an app or plug in that would block your Xs number, and you have to like solve crazy problem that you can only solve if you're sober. So that. This amazing like the app, and you open it took your feisty friend. It's like. Shrike girl. My tip for drunk friend would be to eat before. And after and during. Don't. Shot you eat a bowl of for is a bowl full of fries. Every cocktail a Cup of mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes potatoes. Drive. There you go. A tip for drunk friend. Mike disco home. Just go home. Do it safely with an Uber. Yeah. Eighty. Drunk friend. I mean, a person that's always drunk or if they're drunk now always. Always help. I have die talked to them talk to them. It's up, man. Tip for you. Or for them. Take all their alcohol and replace it with like water. That's good. That is Oklahoma cbo's. That would be sad. What is your tip for talking to a crush? I would say for talking to your crush is. Are in their mind comeback. What you say to her? Never mind. Last like, your she's factory. Don't know what you want. Good. Start on that site. I don't have a tip for talking. Okay. Here's my tip is replied to their Instagram story. Like, just like a cold resp- like you see their story. So you like, hey, I'm interested. I should be like emoji face like ha or. What do you say that you post something from the studio, and I would go I would say something, I don't know what it would be. Maybe I mentioned something about your shoes or the walls or like there's a muse song playing in the back me like I love to Caesar like something like that. This is just like recognizing. Hey, I'm watching you. And I'm just going to comment on something. Interesting to make your presence known my. See now, we're I'm thinking who does that to me? Who do I have a crush on them? Can tell. I feel like dang talking to your crush. I'm gonna I'm gonna go for the face to face talking interaction. Do your best to be yourself. Because I think anytime you try anything other than that you normally kinda crash in Bern and you make the situation kind of awkward. Yeah. And and that's not always easy to do. Because I mean, you're gonna be nervous. But I think the more confident you are of yourself and also think of it this way because let's just say whatever sort of compensation you have works. And then you have a follow up conversation and follow up. If that first conversation was not you at some point. She's gonna catch onto like, wait. What happened to that guy that I I met, you know, so and at the end of the day, you don't want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with you for who you are. Just be yourself while I like that I was talking to. So like a few years ago. I saw this Dan show. And then just like, wow, there's incredible talent here a lot of like like, beautiful, girls and stuff. And then I saw like one girl, and she was like extremely beautiful and extremely talented dancing. And I did nothing. I did nothing about it. But then I kept seeing her around in the studio, but you couldn't really talk to her or anything like that. And then the artist I was dancing for at the time had dishes, and then she just happened to be at that dish in and then I asked a friend introduced me to her and I'll just like oh dope. Hey. Okay. Bye. And then after that. So I would see her around with like a mutual friends every once in a while. And then I message turned Facebook and saying, hey, it's other YouTube video that you're in you do a really good impression of that person. I'll just like, and then it opened up a conversation. She invited to me she invited me to a party and we've been together since. Shutout and cute. My I never heard. Wow. Facebook facebook. I use it to look at internet business groups. Responsible mike. Hey, you know. So the tip would be to reach out or the tip would be to have somebody introduced for you so into in relation to yours as just replied serum summary. I like long same lines. Yeah. For sure. Okay. Just the more dated reference. Only thing I can think about is. If you're talking to the crush, if you already got the attention try to listen more than Hong, you know, because if you're a deed, the less, you talk, the cooler, you are we gotta still hold the interest level still gotta make jokes. You still got just so that say what you're about be yourself. But you know, you gotta gotta listen because when you listen you might hear some golden nuggets navy like, oh, I'm about to use this right now. I also tap dance. He can only get if you listen, you know, what I mean? So it advice. Yes. I think that's one good listening as great tip for everything. Do you guys have a tip for gift giving? Giving a good gift how to give a gift how to receive a gift how to get a gift where to get a gift how to wrap it water. Your things I'm gonna gifts are gifts. Those are you sure to Jeff the guy? Jeff's Jif Gips are peanut butter gift. I would believe you 'cause you're Tak-man nine thousand team created. I don't know. I don't know his name, but it sends for graphic interchange format. But yeah, it's. Yeah. G but he pronounces it. Jeff. He's wrong. Cool. So in terms of gifts everyone's gonna hate this answer, especially my friends from back home. But I think gift cards are the best gifts ever because you can take them to the places that you want to take them to especially if they're for that place, and you can buy whatever you want. Yeah. That's a subjective. Answer told you I like that answer right cards. I love them too. I'm cool with them. I think okay. Whenever I receive a gift card. I'm like oh tight. But then when I received something like, oh shoot. Like, I've been wanting this or like, oh shoot. Like, I could really use this. I personally appreciate it. When the person who is giving me the gift either gave me something that they kind of caught on to that. I might have liked said in passing or you know, what I mean, or they kinda know that you appreciate these types of things. So then it just shows that extra mile of like, oh, you actually really put some thought into this or you have intention behind. Let's just say for instance, I just got a gift from my good friends. Mike, Anthony, John Lee, Jane, the got me an ipad. I never said I wanted an ipad. I never even hinted that I wanted an ipad, but their intention behind. Hey, we feel like this could be really useful for you. And I use that. I paddle time now. So yeah, I'm gonna use my answer in reference to your answer. But say like, let's say let's say you really needed like an ipad or a camera or something like that. If I were to get you like best buy gift card because I do need to camera or an ipad. And I didn't know which one that be useful to you. And I want you to make the decision like, we'd be odd, man. This is perfect. I'm gonna buy both now since I get a discount on. Both also really good really good. Is going to be about receiving gifts. Because I don't give gifts. So when receiving a gift, it's always nice to say, thank you and not just defending yourself on. No. You shouldn't have got me that late. No, don't don't go into that. They'll go into victim mode. Just say, thank you. I've really appreciate you. It's so nice that you're thinking about me. I wish I could got you something. And then you go get them something. And then you say thank you once again, you finish the conversation. You closing click the XBox, right? So this is a chat this. Close XBox turn off the TV. Right. Go outside. You hug your mom say, thanks mom. Outside she's outside in the in the kitchen. She's visiting you know, she's giving me gifts. So I was like what a gift stand for. What is it grammatically? Medically intellectual fractions. All right. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. That's gotta have you guys ever received gift before you get the other person they are gift in. You're like, oh, what did they get me? So I know what to get them. Oh, my favorite one horse. I'm like how much are we gonna spend on each other? And then like, they give me their first dot it. Ever happened. He wants them. Exactly gift giving tip one on one for me. I definitely agree with Ben like keeping something in mind listening. What you said about the crush listening and using that in terms of gift, I like, a whole note pad in my phone or on notes where I'm like this person said they like this like every person has their own thing. And so I always go back. Thank you. I just am forgetful. There is other than that though, since you already said that I would say gift giving a handwritten card always goes super Shaw. Yeah. Write a card even if it's like when you you can buy like, you don't have to make the card as long as you like right something. But an inside joke on their put their name on it. Make them feel good presentations, huge for me, so cute. I feel I feel that. Yes. Yes. I'm gonna start giving gifts. And you should I am. But I'm gonna give intentional gifts. Because you've inspired. I will say that. According to what we're all kind of saying, I think when you because you had to give me an explanation as to why this gift card is so tight you had written that on a late. Here's why I'm giving you this best buy gift card because I know you said you wanted a camera. So I wanted to give you this gift card. So you can choose to get either one or maybe both dang that's really tight, Mike. Thank you, like how you said, you know, writing a handwritten card just giving that personal connection as to why you're giving them something. Even if it's something not expensive. It doesn't have to be that. I think the thought behind it when it's particularly did can make like the world of the difference. Right. There hundred percent arts are great guys cards, a great. Okay. Our last quick tip before we leave. What is your best tip for a necessary dance accessory? If you're about to dance. What do you got to have? Oh man for me. It's a hat. I always wear a hat when I don't feel like identity. Good without a hat. Yeah. Dance. Well, sorry. My grammar is even suffering without. Not enough. I like wearing hats dance. I get that. I like to wear hats when I'm uncomfortable. Maybe that's what. Agree. But yeah, I think that actually goes back to Charlie's answer about like just Chretien because like it's part of an identity as well is I my character, especially when dancing has had on several different hats on that any given moment. So it's just like which had are you gonna put on? Okay. So I'm gonna go with the tech. I I wanna say air pods because they're available. And I think it's it's an amazing useful tool for when you're free styling or choreographing, you know, and yeah, I think that's the dance tip of the day. I've never quite wrapped with air pods in. What's oh, how do you choreograph like with the speakers? Oh, you could do that too for everything. Yeah. Headphones. General I feel like I'm just more focused. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like one I hate to have always go over to the my device to you know, rewind or whatever. And I also feel like I hear everything in the music much better in my ears. But when you're wearing air pods in your rewind do just have your phone on you either on me in my pocket, or like, just, you know, a little a little dresser something there's two answers to that. If you wearing your airplanes, actually. You can set the settings. So if you tap the left one it'll go to beginning of song. Otherwise, if you have an apple watch just go, and then it's back to the beginning or the next on whatever we're giving. Madge. Shouts to apple right now. My mind is. That's a really good tip. I'm not even gonna give one because that's way, better than I was. Where a big shirt. Bigger close on good Bush shoes to dance in like running shoes. What's your favorite dance? Shoot aware will ever. They were like he's a row. She Ellie went douse. Those are the most like comfortable shoes, and they're like, not flat. But then they're not not flat. So those would probably be my favorite shoes of all time. What about you? I like dancing diva shell toes. Really, I I'd like flat-footed shoes. Yeah. Converse? But those I feel like are harder than converse. I think I like I do like the hard toabacco because it's great for glides. And because it's flat-footed helps I don't know for me like stabilization balance, especially stuff on one leg and stuff. So flat-footed shoes for stars would have to save An's old school lights. Oh, yeah. I think those are like my my dad's shoe right now because of the flat-footed nece, but also the lightness because I like to practice a lot of footwork. I like that a lot I used to dance out of my shoes because I performance anxiety. So it'd have to wear converse or anything that would ground me because I would like when I try to danton Rochus has like such a big incline of he'll would always trip and fall also 'cause like the sock nature of the top of the shoe was like. No support. Yes. I agree. But if if you I don't know if you can really find him anymore. I find especially oh, I think you can find on EBay, but then the L D went they were like instead of being like sock material it was like a harder material, and they wasn't so high. I think that's why I like them. I bought like every color that they're all destroyed. Now, you should try the reacts those sound Urania reacts. On that note. Thank you so much. I think we helped a lot of people. Hey, where can we find you on the internet? Just dot com. On I g Twitter and all that Atkin just carry in Jay Z and can just kinder's dot com slash podcast cast with a K 'cause we spell all things with a K and personal on I G at Batak underscore, Ben Chung can at might fell and Mike year fail. You find me at Charles v. New win on Instagram or Choji v new on Facebook. What about your my space is linked in Zangas space is a capitals E lurk and dragon percentage. Sign war. Hens Anka's never had saying you didn't okay. Old enough. I don't think because I live journal and my space. Definitely my well, my speech was the same time. What's my space? Now is just music music. I think I haven't logged onto my space to look at it in years. So I don't know what it is. My log in didn't work didn't like Justin Timberlake own it or something for this something like that. Yeah. He did or something that. I remember his name was definitely attached to it recently, Elliot, remember that. While kinda if you guys have a sticky situation or burning in certain Email us at just a tip show at G L dot com and be sure to sign up sleepless in Seattle style. So we don't out your persona. Also, if you wanna get in on this tip jar action tweet me at mega attune, hashtag just a tip jar. And we'll put you in the Bank for future episodes guys. This was a delight. Thank you for letting meeting on your world. On the other day. You might be mad at me for this because I'm not inducted into kindles, but I took a dance class, and they're like do a couple poses. And I just did the kindle sign. I'm not part of the krill a representing AM wearing the sticker. Original performances. So. Judah? What's girl version of a Congess? We haven't quite developed it officially yet. I haven't hearing things there. There are things in the works. We like to be very secretive about stuff. So just know that it's in the works. Real g's move in silence like lasagna who. Who? Shoutout to Wayne. Back to. That was a hit gum podcast.
BONUS: The Honest Fakery of Wrestling
"Hey everyone. This is archie. We're taking a short break from our pandemic Season of Commons this week, but we wanted to share a special bonus show with you. It's a conversation with Damian. Abraham, you might remember Damian from the dynasty season and our episode about Canada's unforgettable wrestling family the hearts. He's also the host of turned out of PUNK podcast. The Creator and host of a documentary series called the wrestlers and a member of the legendary Toronto. Band fucked up. Scenarios not going to tell you the whole story of the dynasty, the greatest wrestling family Canadian history. If you WanNa, hear that you'll have to check out our original episode. Instead you'll hear. Damian tells about his introduction to wrestling the fine art of juggling the real and the fake the turf wars between local wrestling leagues, and how all evolved into world wrestling entertainment as we know it today. I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I'm marshy man and from Canada land. This is a special episode of Commons. I was always a Fan I've always watched it I was always fascinated by the only thing that operates in. Honestly in two worlds. Were we live in a world where baseball players are stealing other players signals where football players after fleeting football, so everything's worked. Everything's like how do how do these finals keep going to seven games? Because everything ultimately is about taking dollars out of your pocket. That's what entertainment does. That's what? Everything does but wrestling's the only thing that says here's what we're doing and were deceiving. You and we all know the wrestling, so it's like the most honest sport to the era. I came up in. The late Nineties Bret Hart the Rock Undertaker Kane man mankind. As, it's been historically the ads I have now learned. It is it is something that everyone's got that touchstone their past with like. If you're not, you know immediately you know into it now. Looking were. Did. You come up like what what who are your guys? I was kind of the era before that I was many years before I was like Hulk Hogan I was like Iron Sheik. Nikolai Volkov like that was kind of my under the giants tail end of his run but it was it was the rock and wrestling era. I guess it was called then and I was into it, but my parents didn't like it so I. I bought the toys. I watched it on TV, but they would never bring me to a show I would watch and continue that way until my teen years I didn't go so I didn't even go to a wrestling show until I was in my twenties. Yeah, do you think you were ever the kid who believed that it was real? And then you realize more? No, it was. Was Right from the Syria I think there's people disbelieving it way back. As soon as it started getting character-driven, there were like this doesn't seem real, and then also people that fight for real, and they're like. Listen when you throw someone against the wall. They fall down. They don't bounce off ropes. They don't back to you. You know they're physics at work. Work here that don't make sense, but it was real. You know there was a time when it was as real heart attack. They were the the carnival days they would go out there and they would. The strongman would defeat strength, and then it'd be like who can beat me and be people in the crowd that would be like Oh me and then Straw. Straw man would beat the crap out of them, but then eventually they were like people are gambling on this one is if we put someone in the crowd who looks really small, but he's good at wrestling, and he can beat the strong man so then they are doing that and that's that's the beginning of the work, and then it. It's kind of. Develop as an art form from the work you know the work is the deception at the foundation of it, but it's so beautiful. What's kind of like a Pearl? You know at the center of it. There's this like why, but around it. There's this like incredible shell. Is A, prochell. I think I think it's like a million little chef. That's right, so a million little shells around that are so beautiful, and that's like in wrestling everywhere goes at changes and adapts the culture because it wants to. It wants to take money of the fans pockets, and they know the best way to do that is by reflecting the culture back at if I come from punk and punk is is a very fairly international Kinda Sean. But. It's still largely. With American driven in a lot of the ways, wrestling is totally unique wherever you go, it's the culture is completely independent of obviously there's a mega culture which is the WWE, but at the same time there's like Japanese. Wrestling looks nothing like American wrestling, which looks nothing like Mexican wrestling at which looks nothing like wrestling from Kinshasa like it's all beautifully different. I mean we're GONNA have wrestling fans in the audience show, but for a lot of folks could mean. I was hoping you could take us through some of the definitions. You mentioned work. Yeah, well. Maybe that's a good place to start, and then also. This is a weird thing to talk about. Because wrestlers hate when you use the language. So I'm doing this with the utmost respect when I'm when I'm trying to do this and I'm trying to. Just you know I I also, I'm not a wrestler. I'm just a fan. I feel incredibly privileged in a Lotta ways I have a lot of privilege, but I also feel privileged as a wrestling fan. That I was allowed access to the world and kind of see. See Behind the curtain a little bit because it is very secretive as much as we do. Know what's going on their stuff that we don't know at all like as much as I think I. Know Everything at this point Oh. There's tons of subterfuge and deceptions that I don't know about and a lot of that goes back to language. You know in the language that they have comes out of the carnival. some. Some people call it, Carney, speaking carney I'm not gonNA try to impression of it because I would choose a terribly, but there are wrestlers that can speak it fluently, and neither wrestlers especially from the older generation, it's kind of a dying language, but it their wrestlers that could speak it and just carry on a conversation with each other, but there are certain holdovers and certain words like The Big One is Cape. And Cave is something Cannons weapon actually put breaking cave about a record years ago, and that was I remember reading that that's kind of taboo. Wonder, if any wrestlers they're gonNA. Be pissed at him for this. Because cave is what wrestling hinges on, and that's the idea that it is a it is a work like what you're seeing is not on the up and up. You're seeing two or more people engaged in physical combat, which on some level, because it's not always completely work, but at some level is predetermined so and that is. Out of that, you actually have MMA come. You actually have a Lotta combat. Sports come at a pro wrestling and You know these these things aren't. Worked, they not predetermined, but at the same time they do come out of the sort of work background, so there's always kind of certain levels of of work to it. I'm sorry, I wa. Now. Work is the idea that. That it's not real, it's not real such. It is real like it's you know what they're doing really hurts everything they do in. That ring really hurts like a falling on. The ring hurts like I couldn't believe the first time I landed on that ring from any sort of height, which is just stowing, so you've been in the ring own death. I guess the first time I went in the ring years ago. Hey, this is tiffany. You've been listening to the special bonus episode of comments. We produce these shows as thanks to the listeners who support us directly and make our work possible. We'd love it if he became one of them. You can do this in two minutes. And then we listened to the rest of this interview with. Damian Abraham just click the link in. In the show notes and sign up for just five bucks a month. Canadian, when you do, you'll get a premium ad feet at this podcast and more bonus episodes like this. You'll also get access to an upcoming candidate land slack channel connecting you all the hosts and producers of our shows again. It's super easy. Click the link in the show notes, or if you're listening on a computer, go to comments PODCAST DOT com.
Utopian Hours: the city at stake
"Hello and welcome to mali. Fours the urbanized show all about the cities we live in. I'm angie talk coming up on today's program. But i think there's some really good ideas here. I believe there is a group of people that really want to move things forward. And i believe that these type of events and this group of people's really has some tools to push things forward and make change we check in with taran as the monocle team or a team of one stops by at one of the few urbanism festivals that managed go ahead this year. Despite uncertain certain regulations and uninviting border restrictions an exciting team of designers thinkers and city makers still assembled in the north of italy as well as dialing in from around the world to discuss. What's at stake right now. For the city itself head. We talked to the festival's organiser as well as some of the inspiring speakers. You may this year's edition of the event and even more memorable one than already was set to be. That's all coming up right here on the east with me. And while the urbanism event circuit yes there is one certainly. Didn't harm light usual. This summer was at least one of the festival's on our radar that managed to go ahead despite its own laundry list of challenges utopian hours an event organized by torino stratospheric in italy's northwestern hub of charon took place over three days in late september offering up a fresh perspective and visionary voices from near and far to get a rundown on how this year's program went ahead and look back at some of the highlights. I'm joined now by luca ballerini founder of stratospheric and organizer of the utopian. Ask festival lucre. Firstly well done on staging this very successful events a very tough time. Can you tell us about this year's edition of the festival and what your focus was well the focus this year. Was you know we had the theme for the very first time and theme was the city at stake. We put forward this theme in in february when the covid was not as bad as we know now but we felt the need to rediscuss about the role of cd's not just their form political issues but also the issue about liberty freedom and being around. The city doesn't feel as it fell to the in. The past city is now a little bit more not just the place we used to longing for and some people actually quitting cities so felt need to discuss about it and we had several voices of course talking about the pros and cons of living in cities in our cities can change in the near future so to our listeners was the balance between the festival happens in sharon was the balance between what happens in the city and the desire to see what's happening in other cities around the world because you bring in lots of guests from all sorts of places how important is to arenas that the hosting base for the festival. Well we think of children as a test bed in a way to see what could be done. of course. we bring forward many ideas that we work on. During the whole era with brainstorming visually sessions and bringing to the table several representative of the creative industry cultural industry from the local seen as so we discussed the future of juryman and dan utopian hours festival cavs a platform to discuss both the future of the city of children but at the same time the city in general the city is a concept and so that's why we are always looking for best practices and good practical things that have happened in cities around the world and we invite the people who have actually done these things to tell us how they manage to do these things in their cities. So it's a real dialogue between how terrain could become a better city improving and learning from other cities around the world and it's very inspiring of course to have a concentrate dialogue between fifty klaus people coming from different cities in turin and discuss these issues. Very contemporary issues. Very pressing urgent issues facing the challenges that cities are facing today. So that's fifty speakers. Because i guess both digitally and in the space but how many people viewed the talks and things issue is here we add fantastic because it was unprecedented for us so we decided to go also livestreaming two three weeks before festival because we could see the tide coming of a second wave of covid and of course in the beginning we had like a thirty five people that were coming in person and then in the end it was fifty fifty so we actually had twenty six speakers in person and twenty four talking remotely so we had eight hundred people coming to the festival in person these ear because of the situation we had to put up ticket and then we add nearly two thousand people following festival on livestreaming and that was for us. It was a success. Because we definitely enlarge our audience to you know more international at least european metal audience now on nolan an architect traitor amongst many other things and and has his own podcast hero. Monocle twenty four he came to see you in part in the event. And i know that he got chat to join beakman's who's the co founder of pop-up city. Now you do this interesting thing every year where you get. Somebody's be visiting of explorer. You kind of send them off to the ground children. Tell me what did he find him. What was your hope with this program. Paul we're very happy of this format of visiting urban explorers and this is the fourth year we to it so it's very simple because it happens to everyone of us when we get back to our city. We've been around for a while while not in these days. Unfortunately but usually you know you come back to your hometown and you try to see to with the eyes of someone who's never been there before and so this is exactly the concept of the core of this and the format we invite people who have never been before to win. We ask them to go. Round explore the city by themselves for three days and then onto forte. They have to come stage with very little preparation of course because they didn't have the chance apart from these last three days of walking around maybe talking to some people and then they had to come up with ideas and suggestions so your own back mounds of up city from amsterdam very much focused on one of the issue which is more problematic for us insurance. Which is the quality of air which is very very bad. The quality of life is very high jury for many reasons but the quality of our is just. I think one of the lowest in europe. So it's a real night and so he addressed this directly. You know with no carbs directly there said hey during these people you have to do something for these. So was trying to suggest. From small initiatives bottom up initiatives to more high-profile strategic thought to we could address this issue of having a very polluted air and he was inspiring of course and i think the audience is very happy to hear people talking about this because you can really get out even someone. That's coming from another country now. The city can get some very important issues and things and face it about your city. They're intimately just by being an urban explorer for three days. Well let's have a listen now to some of drones. Conversation with nolan drone began by shedding some light and what he had found so far while roaming through the streets of charon actually one instruction on the list was to not really go into the city centre exploited the outskirts of bit more but i just walked through direction and i ended up in the city centre in the first place so i needed to get out there. What intrigued me was of course the grit better enough to city and also to view on the alps. Of course i mean you can especially. Today is beautiful day you can watch yelps from afar really cool. So i discovered that the city actually has next circle skyline instead of an internal. Kyle which i think is super interesting and then at some point i ended up at the riverside the bow and You think is funny to feel how the city they're sort of transforms do more quiet and easygoing place by the way from all the cars and all the traffic and i also visited dunker which is a feels like a temporary place but it's somewhere in In the outskirts it's combination of climbing hall theater space. It's all open air. There's of course vegetable garden. There's a bar. Sides was pretty cool. But you know it's overtime so everything was closed. So i was sort of walking around here on my own in the grayish rain so it's very peculiar experience to be honest. Yeah so we're here at utopian hours which is a festival all about urbanism which is quite a rare thing but obviously it attracts a big audience. Here it's been going for a while this clearly an interest. What'd you think makes this event so special. I think there's a great bunch of people at events. I've been to quite a lot of festivals festivals. And i think they've created a really good program so that's really good ideas here. I believe there is a group of people that really want to move things forward. I believe that People living in two in. I think they're known as being a bit. Introverts and fans of status quo. And i believe these type of events and this group of people's really has some tools to push things forward button and make change. One of the things i've noticed being here is as a city. It feels very walkable. And i went out yesterday morning and it was nice to be an environment where this cafes open. There's people walking their children to school. It feels like it's very i guess. Dense is probably a good way to describe especially kind of around where we are here. Do you feel the city as a place of excitement of good energy. I mean we're talking a time when you know. Most of our cities are kind of losing their soul. A little bit especially in this era of cova but also just looking back and you seeing our city centers. Become you know places of luxury shops and losing the character. Do you feel in a way has retained. Its character how you feel about that. Yes a good point. You know you're in is known to be an alternative shitty. Another prime tourist destination people. When go to italy day visit florence and venice of course in rome. Tunis often overlooked and the interesting thing is people go to these authentic italian places because they are looking for authenticity butts. The huge numbers of tour showing up there actually results in displaces becoming more generic and less authentic so i think tune is in a position to beat his authentic city that we long for. Maybe we shouldn't talk about that too much. In case people start turning up here and making it a bit more touristy. But i'm really interested in your work from what i understand you pop up interventions in cities you do a lot of projects. What's been on the agenda this year. I'm especially interested because of the current situation. The city amsterdam is a client thus One of the bigger clients. We are running a place making place making program in southeast city for those who've been amsterdam's new football stadium. It's now an office park. Very mono functional city wants to build fifteen thousand homes in the coming decades there. It's very sub. Urban was built in eighteen. Ninety s. Ferry car centered. They've asked us to curate a strategic program which we bring energy and life to this area so we link anti real estate owners with people with good ideas. We just devout food truck strategy for the area to make public space more livable more vibrant. We'd commission of public artworks and in overtime. Actually i always look at city making as We work on the intersection of urbanism or design and communication. And it's a lot about perception. Of course. I mean you can really change a place by changing perception of place and this anti communicative bart's dis- marketing of place can just continue and even in overtime. So i still have quite a lot of work to do. I guess what you'll doing like a one-size-fits-all solution for every different environment. In fact it's probably an exact specific thing each specific place. So i'm just wondering a little bit about your process how you examine a place or a project how you think about it and then how you create action. They're talking about this project. Just refer to one of the big challenges for us was to engage the local community so the city of amsterdam displays her working in district. Working in there was a railway track running through. Its on the one end on one side. There's this office park which i just explained about on. The other side of the railway track is one of the most deprived areas of the city and rival city. A huge African community living there and one of the very important aspects of our work is to make these communities benefit from big money that's investments by the project developers on the other side of the railway track. So the first thing we did when we were starting to work in this area was fine. Local partners a local creative agency with a huge network in the local community also to serve gain credibility and not come there as an outside force and telling people what they should do so we really really built a sort of a platform which facilitates good ideas. That are already present in this neighborhood. And that's i think super super important to do and is that more difficult to do in a place that you don't know so well if you were to come here to charene for example is it really about activating the people of place. And how'd you do that as a foreigner. I think you have to identify the people in the organizations that's really play a pivotal role in society and sitting really spent some time in getting to not speak and their gateway to other people auto networks. So i guess the medium that you work and it's something that we're seeing more and more of and i'm really interested to know all you now able to kind of work at a deeper level with cities when you're engaging with developers city governments. Are they more interested in something that actually has a bit more meaning rather than you know just superficially plunking something temporarily down and aside. How deep do these people want to go. There is some good guys in the market and some bad guys in the markets. you know. There's a lot of product developers and investors who are for quick money grits special amsterdam with booming housing markets. People are calling it a bubble at the moment. But there's also a lot of good guys. One thing is with the city. We working closely with the city in this destination area and we really try to find new mechanisms to for instance reward. Investments in the public domain by product developers with prince has the opportunity to develop more force base drone. beakman's co founder of pop-up city and one of utopia now's visiting urban explorers. They're speaking with known. And i'm so here with luca ballerini organizer of the utopian hours festival. Now nolan also. Got the chance to speak with stephanie. Becker one of the authors of future cities which looks at upcoming cities all around the world from kashasa to lima to addis ababa. Now look at what we hoping to explore here. What was your ambition with. This guest here is of course to bring an aspect of cities that were very keen of which of course the creative culture underground cultures music scene. Everything this coming up. And it's not very much recognized on the superficial level so you have to dig a little bit defined his thing out and this is exactly what they've done. Stephanie backer and her late companionship. Unfortunately died in june this year. They've done a remarkable effort in understanding the creative cultures of this upcoming metropolis and so they portrayed these cities in ways that rarely are shown the idea behind it was of course to see some cities that are less known than others of course first of all so we had for the first time. We had the opportunity to see big cities from asia. South africa south america. That have been rarely say showcase in our festival in the past years and at the same time of course leverage some of these creative industry forces that are shaping actually the image of the city the future. So as you know. We're very much concerned about what. Image our cd. Your city is projecting to visitors to tourists the two people who are considering moving there so the image of the city of these cities came out in a very good shape so i think this was very good contribution to the festival this year. Let's have a listen than to steph chat with nolan. Stephanie began by sharing ideas behind her future. Cities project future cities. It's about five cities. Five emerging cities around world. It's about kinshasa lima yang-gon in myanmar made the gene and other saba and these are non the city. You think about immediately when thinking about the future of the world bond at the same time the cities are all growing very fast in economic sense demographic sense and that's what surprised us lot and We wanted to know what doing so well. And how is live over there. Because before we went to conceal we didn't know anything about kinshasa what we knew what. Stereotypes like war poverty and rebels bud. What we found out is that there's a complete different story to tell us well and that's what we focused on with. Future cities focused on the strength of the city instead of focusing on the problems. So some of these stories that you kind of uncovered what is the positive nature of these cities. Could you share with us. A few examples. Yeah what we found out for. Instance is that talking about kinshasa only knew before we left. Was the stereotypes you see in the media war and poverty and what we found out is that can has the most stylish people i can say more or less in the world. There are a lot of fashion shows. There are suppers. stylish man that's linked together. Which group is the most stylish in lima. For example. i've been there. Fifteen years ago while traveling and i had four six weeks rise and beans and i heard someone telling a chef that lima had a torn boom so we went there and we had the most fantastic food and what we saw. Is that this gastronomy. Boom is changing the city and is changing lives as well so future. Cities focuses on the strength of the city but we do not neglect to problems. So the starting point of our stories is different. It start with strength with talent of people from their. You come to that kind of more balanced view on the cities. And the way you've documented you've done it in a very kind of beautiful way real storytelling approach to the subject. But now that you've created the stories or you've told the stories what you intend to do with them. Actually we've been working for almost five years on this project. And that was also. Because we wanted to disseminate the stories in in a different way so we published our stories in a global news papers in magazines we did exhibitions lectures and we have an independent web documentary. What i really liked that. The project became an inclusive project twice. We organized an exhibition in the presence of the protagonists for instance in kitale we were invited by the united nations to do an exhibition at their habitat three city summit and we invited as well three of the protagonists one from kinshasa one from young on one from lima and they also were able to tell stories about their dreams and their lives and their vision. The future of their cities and normally city summits are about architecture policies. And not about people. And that's why we added. And that's what. I'm kind of proud of i used to live in southeast asia and i've seen developing cities and in a way these places because they're growing so quickly economically they can be quite nimble in a way and alleviate problems in some ways faster than in more developed cities whether that's in bank call creating amazing public transport infrastructure very quickly and alleviating all the traffic issues. They have their. Did you take any learnings from these cities and and see ways that they were alleviating issues in the urban environment that may be transferred to develop city. You know what. I learned from these cities and from the people that live. There is that they can dream. We had elza a girl from lima living in one of the slums and studying at a social cooking school and she was with us when we opened the exhibition in amsterdam and we invited young people from the netherlands to talk about dreams and also had a very clear dream and these dutch kits that almost half everything they had no dreams. So what i learned from these people in these emerging cities that they have dreams and that they were very hard to realize their dreams. And that's what i think it's fantastic and it's super refreshing to hear that and is this what you're here to do today to kind of to show that this this ambition in these places in this excitement. I what you plan to really share today. Our motto from future cities is here. The city meet the people feel the energy. So i i want to transmit the energy the knowledge and the inspiration from these cities into our worlds so the variety of places. You went to is very different. You went to different continents but with there similarities in these places yeah of course these cities were very very different from another but yes what we found was that our project is basically about identity out onto ity talent of the people and what we found is that the real talent of people cannot thrive on the bad economy cannot drive on the repression and what we saw. Is that in all these cities. Now they have more economic growth. They have more political freedom now. The talents people always hats. Start to flourish and that also enables change in other aspects. And that's what we saw happening in. All these places stephanie. Backer co author of future cities. There in conversation with annan giles. Back to you just finally liquor well done again forgetting everything to go ahead. We're all hopeful that things will be easier in the years to come in terms of bringing people together for these important discussions. What you hope to be doing next year and beyond with this festival well the thing. We're very happy for is. I was really impressed by how much the speakers could even if participating remotely could understand the feeling i would also say the kind of tone of voice of this festival from the name itself utopian hours. It's definitely a time during the year or a time during the day. When we have to push forward we have to be more visionary and so everybody from reach of florida to end. The many people who participated really felt these and so i think that our ambition now is really to become one of the best moment during every year to bring great minds together and to fill together a kind of more progressive and more cautious thinking about cities in the future and our future as human beings of course in urban environments so and is particularly because he was so difficult and the audience could feel it and the guest speakers could feel it was the real utopian itself now bringing people from all over the world virtually or physically in the same place for three days just talking about cds and cities are our future so it was a great effort for everyone that was involved and the outcome the imports and also the passionate and heartfelt messages that we were able to gather during these three days where outstanding. So for us organizers. It's really something we want to push forward and get to another level for the next year edition. Ballerini of trina strassel erica and organizer of utopian hours festival in. Thank you for joining me. That's all for this edition of the program. Thanks to not in jars reporting from tehran. Today's episode was produced by collage. Rabelo and david stevens and david or edited. Show to play you out of this week's episode l. His with utopia. Thanks for listening. City lovers see.
Eating the Wild: Bushmeat, Game, and the Fuzzy Line Between Them
"The Ron virus has countries across the world but officials believe that it all started in Wuhan China. It's believed that the virus may have originated from a market in the city where people can buy assortment of wild game. Meat Bats snakes and other wildlife as well as dogs and cats. A rule sold here alive in cages stacked on top of each other images of the market from early December. Taken by concern customer indicate. It was apparently selling other live. Wild animals including skin birds snakes in Brooklyn dogs sparking concern that the virus might have been transmitted from animals to humans. I imagine that you listeners have heard this or something like it in the past few months. The Corona virus has spread around the world and shutdown basically everything and many scientists believe in emerged in wildlife and jumped to humans somewhere along the process of those animals becoming dinner. But don't worry we haven't suddenly become a corona virus. Podcast this is still gastropod. The podcast that looks food through the Lens of Science and history. I'm Nikola And I'm Cynthia Graber and while we're not going to spend this episode discussing the INS and outs of the emergence of covert nineteen. We are going to talk about eating wild animals. It's timely yes and also jeanneret La- SERVA- has a new book about it. I am an environmental anthropologist and a writer and I have a forthcoming book called feasting wild in search of the last untamed food. We call Jeanneret. Because she's visited some of the last truly wild places on earth and tasted some of the rarest wild meat and we wanted to know why to Americans and many Europeans eat so few wild animals while people in other parts of the world eat so many. And why if you go out and shoot a wild deer in the US wise that called game but if you kill a wild antelope in some countries in Africa it's called Bush me plus should people really be eating wild animals anymore. And what's this all to do with a soup made of spit? This episode is supported in part by applegate. If you consciously choose credible meet for at the goal environmentally responsible and delicious reasons you might be an applegate -tarian if you like your meet with no added hormones no antibiotics ever and no GMO ingredients. You might be an applegate. -Tarian couple is environmentally responsible. Organic meat go applegate. -Tarian today for more information on going applegate -tarian visit applegate DOT com. This episode is aborted in part by the Mushroom Council. Times like now nothing tastes better than comfort food. And nothing's more comforting than a tasty burger. Make Your Burger better by adding mushrooms to the mix. It's called the blend simply. Blend fresh finely chop washrooms into your ground meat for burgers full of juice. Mommy flavor and an extra servings veggies discover how your original blended burger recipe could win you ten thousand dollars at blended -tarian dot com slash gastropod. So you're used to be covered in these dense wet deciduous forests which is very different from what we see today where really hardly any of this primeval force exists anymore for her book feasting. Wild jeanneret actually visited one of the last tiny slivers of European primeval forest. It's in Poland. And it really is just a shadow of its former. Self Europe's forests were so vast that actually we think that the root of the word wilderness came from descriptions of these places the roots of the words wild and wilderness. I'll go back to untamed animals. The forest was a place. Teeming WITH ANIMALS UNGOVERNED BY HUMAN HANDS UNGOVERNED BUT NOT UNTOUCHED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Europeans would go into the forest to find dinner day all kinds of animals wild boar venison there is something called the RMC which is the precursor to domesticated cattle. There was for a spice in moves the animals so abundant here. That really there was no form of hunting restriction it was abundant but it was also really valued killing a huge wild animal and then being able to share it was a sign of how wealthy and powerful you are. King said to have lots of wild game. At all their banquets. Animals would be breezed in rosewater and spices. Sometimes they would be covered in gold leaf and brought to the table hole and kind of carved up in front of the guests so while it was very much a form of status for kings so by the Middle Ages Those Morris. Were already starting to shrink between one thousand. Ad and thirteen hundred thirteen hundred. Europe's population grew by about fifty million people and all of those people needed to eat so there was increasing. Need to cut down the forests in order to grow grain and various crops and then also would was used for everything it was used for building houses and making carts by the fourteen and fifteen hundred. Europeans began sailing around the world. They first set forth to trade and then to stake their claim on foreign lands is colonialism spread across the globe. There was demand for very large old growth trees to create the ship. Masts that were needed and as early as the eleventh century The demand for wood was really threatening the forest where these kings went out and hunted the game meat that was so important to their diets and their status. Gina races that originally European forests had mostly being treated as common land. Anyone could hunt there. But as far back as ancient Rome the elite had sat down laws saying yes anyone could hunt but only as long as they weren't trespassing sort of by Default European kings and noblemen were the ultimate owners of the forest so as European king started to see their game meat being threatened by the need for Forest Land Day set out some very similar conservation measures whereby the king really restricted access to hunting in his forest. This is really the beginning of modern conservation lives whereby people were kept out of the forests. It's weird to think of royalty preserving their hunting grounds and keeping out the poor folk as the blueprint for the conservation movement. But jeanneret says these laws were really some of the earliest forms of environmental legislation forests. Were no longer for everyone to use as they pleased they were just for the Kings. They had very large administrative networks to manage this for so the forest wardens would they would hand out hunting licenses. They would make sure that game. Animals didn't starve winter or in times of drought. Sometimes they would prepare the venison for royal feasts and they would mete out. Punishments punishments were usually for poaching and they were definitely not just a slap on the wrist. If you ignored the game laws you could have a trial by hot iron and if you were found guilty then your eyes would be torn out or you were castrated. So poaching really big deal. The kings went to great lengths to prevent people from poaching and this had an impact on how people related to the natural world around them. The forest said always been wild in earlier centuries in Europe. They'd even been places of spirituality. But at this point the forests started to become scary rather than sacred. The authorities deliberately painted a picture of forests filled with outlaws and rebels dangerous rule breakers people who posed a threat to society with the stories. The authorities told a violent outlaws in the forest. Some of those were based on reality. There were people breaking the rules in the forest but they were breaking them because they thought the rules were unfair and they were hungry for poor people. This was one former getting food. And any time there was an economic downturn hunting would rise poaching would rise in the forests and so people did find it as an active resistance against the sort of forms of power and some of the rebels who broke the rules and hunted in the forest. They actually became folk. Heroes like Robin Hood and his band of Merry men. So Robin Hood was stealing from the rich and giving to the poor but this also came out of this idea that the force were not necessarily landscapes that poor people were allowed to access or use the resources of and so it wasn't active resistance to go in there and to get in game animals and feed yourself on one level. This is a story of power who could hunt and eat the wild game and wendling European forests and who couldn't that it's also the story of the impact that split between rich hunters and bore poachers had on how Europeans thought of wild food and the whole concept of the wild and wilderness. This is a very particular way of thinking of wild meat. As game to be hunted for sport by the elites and otherwise off limits and this is a template that the Europeans took with them as they colonized countries around the world so when the first European colonists arrived in the Congo Basin they sort of carried this cultural baggage of seeing forest as these dark empty wastelands without people so even though there were a long history of human habitation and numerous groups living in the Congo Basin forests. The European comments kind of didn't see them and there was this real sense of Europeans thought of this landscape as Darkest Africa. Take David Livingston. He was a Scottish missionary and explorer. Who is obsessed with finding the source of the Nile? He did a an exploratory expedition across the Congo wilderness. And he described Congress for us as suffocating wilderness and people waste that seem to have an oppressive silence so in May of eighteen eighty five. The you know quote unquote international community. Which is England France Germany Belgium and Italy? They recognize King Leopold the second of Belgium as having a sovereign claim over much of the Congo and five years later these same countries created what was effectively the first international conservation law this lowest passed in the early nineteen hundreds and it was called the Convention for the preservation of wild animals birds and fish in Africa. Local people couldn't hunt or trap or fish in certain areas of the country. The law was modeled. After the way European forests had become protected game reserves for rich people rich people in particular but of course just like in Europe the forests in Africa weren't actually pristine empty wildernesses before there were plenty of people who depended on them. There were a lot of different groups. Living in the Congo forest somewhere. More nomadic hunter-gatherers others were farming communities living within the rain forest but for all of these groups wild meat provided a very essential source of food. So there were all kinds of animals being eaten everything from various kinds of antelope to forest buffalo wild boar monkeys. You know just hundreds of different animals that communities ate in the forest there were cultural. Taboos around eating certain species particularly ones that were long lived and slow to reproduce like elephants which could and did occasionally provide a lot of meat was considered a sacred act to kill an elephant similar with eating bonobos which are great ape. That's very similar to us. There were beliefs that there is a direct link to that ancestral spirit world so all of these cultural beliefs had an ecological basis to really help conserve animals that had large social complex social groupings or were slow growing and thus thunderbolts over hunting still. All kinds of animals were traditionally eaten and Jeanneret told us they were all usually prepared in a similar way because of the heat and humidity in equatorial rainforests. Fresh meat really rots quite quickly and so after animal was disemboweled the hunters would warm smoke. The animal for many hours over low fires and overtime the neat develops this thick strong crest on the outside and because of the humidity of the forest it has to be retried over the small fires every four or five days so this method of cooking is great because actually kills off any potential viruses that might be in the meat due to so many hours of exposure to heat but from a coronary perspective. All of this slow roasting also means that the neat when it's finally reconstituted usually in some sort of rich stew is incredibly delicate and it just falls to pieces in your mouth. This is still a wild meat is prepared today. Jeanneret tried some wild boar cooked like this when she was reporting in the Congo and it's usually cooked with tomatoes and spices. And it's almost like a beef Bourguignonne or something. It's just very tender and it. Has This really incredibly? Smokey taste very complex flavor but in the colonial period thanks to European restrictions Congolese people no longer had as much access to their traditional wild meat they resorted to starches and tubers and wild meat became rare which made it even more desirable and then after World War. Two there were a number of independence movements across Africa in the Congo. A man named Mobutu Sese. Seko became the leader and eventually the dictator in nineteen sixty five. We in the. Us actually backed him because he was against communism so he had a really heavy hand in a lot of aspects of cultural life and even though he had these western backers really wanted to rid the country of any sort of colonial influences. So he really. He wanted to return the Congo kind of to this authentic country and he renamed it a year. He outlawed wigs and he told his citizens to sort of dress. Speak and eat in an authentic manner and as a result this sort of desire for these wild meats that had been so much part of the cultural history for so many groups became really popular again and his military was hugely involved in transporting the wild meat game particularly into cities and people in cities who had salaries were willing to pay more money for these traditional meets so demand for wild game really shot upwards some of the old taboos to disappear at this point if you had money to afford elephant then eating elephant became a status symbol rather than a sacred communist dish of ruled tightly for a couple of decades but his grip started to weaken in the nineteen eighties and then by the ninety s civil war broke out the left people desperate and starving all across the country. An almost five point four million people died so another four million people were displaced from their homes. And what happened during this was that the widespread circulation of weapons in the forest became the norm so suddenly forest where you might have had traditional hunters using twelve gauge shotgun to you know go hunting suddenly there tons of AK47's in automatic weapons circulating throughout the forest. So the wild meat trade really got caught up in the civil war and people went hungry and long taboos against for instance eating bonobos. Those disappeared civil war lasted nearly a decade and during that time thanks to the widespread hunger and the guns and the military gangs trading while meet the wild animal population of the Congolese. Forest was decimated. One forest reserve literally lost an estimated ninety percent of all its animals after the war. International non-profit strode up to try to help the country heal a lot of the groups. Were concerned about the citizens of the Congo. But some were focused on the forests in the wildlife and they felt that people shouldn't really be eating that wildlife anymore. These environmental nonprofits worked with the government to try to restrict hunting in nature reserves. The NGOs had more of an American attitude to wilderness as opposed to the one in traditional American conservation. Thinking the idea is that if we want to keep something wild Ben our job as humans is simply to protect it and stay away but of course local people had been using these forest since forever and they still wanted to eat wild meat and honestly these restrictions were more or less impossible to enforce. The Democratic Republic of Congo is a big country and its poor. So there isn't a lot of money to pay for a strangers so hunting carried on despite the new restrictions and scientists and nonprofits remain really concerned about its impact. Some animal populations dwindled. So much that there are threatened with extinction and losing animals in the forests threatens. The forest themselves to it is increasingly devastating. The forest so scientists like to talk about the Empty Forest Syndrome which is basically that. We have reduced the number wild animals in these places to such an extent that the trees are no longer reproducing as they might otherwise because so many of these animals are important in seed dispersal for these different tree species. This tension is still very much ongoing today because despite the existence of nature reserves and the environmentalists warnings pairs still plenty of wild meat for sale in the DRC and plenty of people buying an eating it. This episode is supported in part by Blue Moon. Don't you think some once in a blue moon moments should have been more than once in a blue moon whether that's getting together with friends online special date night. Happy hour or a relaxing in blue moon is automation to celebrate and inspire more of those moments. Just like those looking to find the special in the everyday balloon takes a twist on the traditional Belgian beer oats make Blue Moon creamy and smooth coriander adds a refreshing spicy kick and Valencia. Orange peels add citrus sweetness. The Valencia oranges not Spanish. As you might guess it's a so cal native first hybridize in Santa Ana by an American who moved there when California was still Mexican. It is named after the famous sweet oranges. Valencia Spain which were actually originally from India. The next time here on a zoom happy hour or enjoying night in reach for a blue moon. It's the beer. You can enjoy every day you can have blue moon delivered by going to get dot blue moon beer dot com and finding delivery options near you. Blue Moon reach for the moon celebrate responsibly. Blue Moon Brewing company Golden Colorado L. This episode is supported in part by applegate. If you're a person who consciously chooses credible meat for ethical environmentally responsible and delicious reasons. Be An applegate -tarian if you like your meet with no added hormones no antibiotics and no GMO ingredients. You might be an Apple Guitar Ian if you listen to guess. There's a chance you might already be an applegate -tarian so move over vegetarian. Flexible Terry fruitarian. There's a new -tarian in town. Lexa -Tarian is a Portmanteau word that refers to a flexible vegetarian. It was first coined in nineteen ninety eight. According to Merriam Webster a journalist at the time described it as an ICKY neologism touted by the Food Channel but by two thousand four it was named the most useful word of the year by the American Dialect Society and in two thousand twelve. It made it into the dictionary alongside earworm gastro pub sexting and the f-bomb a two thousand twelve. Those were the days. Applegate is just ethical environmentally responsible. Organic MEAT GO UP. -Tarian today for more information on going applegate -tarian visit applegate DOT com. That's applegate dot com the central market in in Kinshasa. You can buy basically anything that you're looking for from makeup to roasted snakes on a stick. There's lots of live. Animals turtles tumbling over themselves buckets of grubs and women giving out tastes in. It just feels very friendly and a lot of ways. I watched one woman who was pregnant. She was negotiating with the wild game bender and said they can't really afford this women's side. I'll give you a special price for the baby because the baby needs. It generally told us that most of the people who are shopping at these markets their parents and their grandparents ate wild game meat. It's part of their culinary tradition. Think it's tastier and they think it's healthier so just like we might prefer organic meat or grass fed beef people. Tell me that the wild gaming is better for you because it comes from the forests in drinks pure water and it eats pure foods. You know another thing. Is that for a lot of people in Congo white meat. Domesticated me isn't really considered me. You know something like chicken report is sort of it doesn't have that same earthy quality game meat has so many different animals that you can eat there so many different flavors associated with that so eating something like chicken. Every night doesn't really satisfy that same. Need chicken actually doesn't make a lot of sense in the DRC for a bunch of reasons one of which has to do with refrigeration. I on dying love and endless obsession. There's a few things one. Is that the cold chain so the chain of refrigerator trucks and things like that is not very good in the Democratic Republic of Congo. So for a long time. People are getting sick from eating kind of grocery store chicken because the fresh meat was spoiling in transit. Again going back to wild game is actually seen as healthier is that smoking process preserves it in a way that in a place where you have rolling blackouts. You're not necessarily going to make sure that that cold chain food is healthier without illness associated with it. There's also the question of how to feed chickens. The Congo just doesn't have the vast fields of soybeans carpet amid west and supply American industrial-scale chicken farms and in any case. Not all wild game is off limits in theory all game. That comes from protected. Parks is illegal and so probably any elephant meat at the market would have been illegally killed but for a lot of animals like snakes. Antelope Wild Boar. There are legal hunting seasons and gun permits. Yes in Theory. A fair amount of it is actually quite legal for people to go to the market and eat game and many of the customers. I talked to said if this is a legal we would stop doing it. In the markets of Kinshasa. There is some illegal wild meat. Elephant Chimpanzee sometimes even tiger. But there's also lots of monkey and antelope an alligator and Pangolin meat. Which is often perfectly legal. And it's eaten by rich and poor alike you can go to Kinshasa Grand Hotel and there. You have antelope stakes. You have porcupine so all these fancy restaurants. You can find plates of Boa Crocodile Turtle and there's also a huge market outside Congo for wild meat from the Congo. And it's no longer just village people subsisting but it's really become a globalized trade. It's estimated that nearly two hundred seventy tons of wild me is smuggled into Europe every year it basically in people's suitcases. The Wildlife Trade is the third largest black market trade in the world after Guns and drugs so it's this incredibly large thing. Jeanneret says that wild animal ranching is actually being put forward as a solution in the Congo away to help meet this huge demand for wild meat while preserving the last remaining wild populations in the forest. So they're trying to sort of semi domesticate. Some of these wild animals particularly ones like porcupine or forest rodents that grow really quickly and are easier to sort of ranch. Domestically the economics are very difficult because a game farmer still has to wait for these animals to mature whereas one hundred can just go into the forest and find one for free so the economics are difficult. Also these animals because they're wild. They don't put on fat in the same way they don't convert feed to protein has domesticated animals do so wrenching tough but banning wild animal meat doesn't seem to be a solution people all over the world want to eat meat particularly the meat that their ancestors ate. It's really a conundrum. It's easy to sympathize with the conservationist point of view. These animals in their habitat are so threatened. But it's also hard to argue. That people shouldn't be able to eat this traditional food. It was such an interesting thread throughout this book. The sort of contradiction between the very normal an almost healthy practice of eating wild foods and really the need to conserve them or ways to not deplete these resources You know unlike domesticated animals wild animals. They don't exist in the same level of abundance within the landscape you need a lot more land to raise for instance one forest buffalo than you might with cattle crowded into industrial size ranching so even from a land use perspective. It's hard to imagine how we could ever scale up to meet the demand for Jeanneret. Became a question of privilege versus need so a rich person. Living in an urban area back can pay you one hundred dollars for Pangolin. Should they be allowed to eat that? I'm not sure but a poor person living the forest where this is their only source of protein. They definitely should be able to subsist on this. Which again is easy. Do agree with but almost impossible to implement in real life so maybe this brings us back to wrenching. At least one of the answers for how to balance the demand for wild meet with preserving the forest and the animals in it but that brings the question of what is truly wild. If we humans are involved in helping raise the animals are they still wild which in turn brings us to eating bird spit? So the trade and edible? Bird's is totally fascinating. I hadn't heard anything about it before I started working on this book. I'd heard of eating bird's nest soup at Chinese restaurants. It just hadn't really thought about what that actually was. Essentially these national are made out of the spirit of a cave. Dwelling bird called swiftlet. So the birds make their nest by weaving these strands of protein-rich spit that sort of half moon like cops and people turn them into soup and various drinks? There's lots of different species of swiftlet to really used for their nests and they lived throughout Southeast Asia and primarily in limestone caves drafted forests. These are really mostly hardened saliva but they have some feathers stuck in there too. It varies by species. So some swift witness or ninety five percent spit and summer. Just half spit now. The interesting thing. Is that the wildness. Because they are here to the walls of these kate. These limestone caves over time as water. Trickles down along the walls minerals absorbed into the nest so the nest take on these kind of straight. Asians of color. Sometimes they're a bit orange sometimes. They're bet red and they kind of almost like st shells or something. They're very beautiful looking. They do send beautiful to look at who I got the idea to eat. Bird's nest the trading edible. Bird's nests actually goes way back to the Ming Dynasty in China which is like the mid thirteenth hundreds. And we kind of know that. Because there's been this Ming Dynasty Chinese porcelain found throughout the southeast. Asian Caves. No one knows who brought the first bird's nest back to China or who decided to turn it into a soup but as usual. There is an origin story that people love to tell throughout the fourteenth century in China. Merchants followed the cycles of the monsoon. So they travel south in the summer to Southeast Asia and then return in the winter and they'd bring back whatever kinds of strange new foods that they could in order to impress the Beijing elite. So one story is that one of these explorers brought back sixty bird's nest to the emperor. The emperor was probably pretty intrigued by these tiny colorful wild birds nests. But he only had a few of them and he had so many nobles and concubines that he wanted to give a taste to. What could he do to stretch? The bird's nests out so he had his shop turning into a soup a lovely story but whoever actually came up with the idea. Bird's nest soup ended up becoming super popular with the Chinese elite. It was an essential banquet dish which meant that people all over Southeast Asia could make a pretty penny harvesting the nests traditionally these these nests were harvested from these caves on either bamboo or a Tan ladders and people would go up there with these lamps and basically knocked down as many as they could and it's still some of the caves are still harvested in a very similar method. I mean they've gone from bamboo ladders to meddle ladders. But it's still an incredibly dangerous job watching these men hundreds of feet up in the air with little guideline ropes to keep them from falling over the centuries the men on ladder sold lots and lots of bird's nests and the soup became more and more popular in China and then in the early to mid nineteen hundred. Something strange started to happen. What's really interesting is. There's been this slow shift where the birds have actually started to domesticate themselves. The birds apparently really were the ones that kind of started the whole thing in the eighteen. Eighty S on island of Java Indonesia. Some of these Whiteness flits started nesting in people's homes. Just of their own volition. It was out for a flying one day from the cave and maybe saw overhang and it looks nice. And they decided to start nesting there so in the nineteen thirties. There is an economic slump throughout Southeast Asia and there was a lot of these abandoned shophouses and this provided really excellent habitat for the birds then after World War. Two people began to sort of realize that these nests were valuable. They would darken their houses to encourage the birds to come. They'd make more like caves. Sort of adding different horizontal struts to the ceiling to create more areas for the birds to nest and people notice something else interesting swiftlets return to where they were born so if a baby was born in a house then the swiftlet would come back to that house to nest once it was an adult so the population of these emmy domesticated swiftlets started to grow but the swiftlet ranching industry was still pretty tiny until China's economy took off in the nineteen ninety s and the new Chinese middle-class suddenly had the money as well as the desire to eat like the elites and at the same time the wildness population. The wildsmith lippard's was becoming really decimated. I did my research on the island of Borneo and ninety five percent of the cave. The Wild Cave swiftlets disappeared. The population just completely crashed so swiftlet. Ranching really became the way to go. There are now more than ten thousand of these birdhouses Justin Malaysia and their special swiftlet architects consultants. It's a whole industry. I like to think of it sort of like we do with bees. The bees aren't necessarily domesticated. They're free to come and go. But we've kind of provided the housing for them so it's really similar with birds and these. These buildings have caused a lot of conflict. Actually because they can smell really bad. They often have these loudspeakers that play these recorded. Swiftlet recordings so they play up to one hundred different. Sounds these swiftlets. Soundtracks are loud and not super pleasant for humans but supposedly they soothe in attract the birds and the birds now actively seek out houses to nest in rather than natural caves and today. These nests aren't just for Soup People. Think the bird's nests have healing powers? So you can find all sorts of products made with them. You can get bird's nests in a pill form you can get birds. Chocolate instant coffee with birds nest. There's face creams pre bottled drinks You can get daily. Gummy bear snacks with with birds of Jeanneret. Wanted to try the real deal. Bird's nest soup made from a cave harvested. Wild swift witness was actually really hard to track down generate thought it'd be fairly straightforward. But she ended up only being able to find wild birds nest soup kind by accident after she'd given up. This particular woman made it for me with some salt and some eggs and mushroom that she says arrives between hot and wet weather and the long ness stand sort of floated in the broth and there. Were you know bits of feather in there? Because she was an older women and and actually picking out. The feathers takes really good eyesight to do so. There was like an element of disgusting because it was so strange to be eating. These long slippery strands but was also really delicious. The NASA sort of soft but discernible chewy. Slippery must like a leathery texture and for me it was. It was really beautiful experience. Because these wildness are increasingly rare. And so it's SORTA felt like eating a relic or sort of an artifact of the vanishing wife as Dina Rae found while bird's nest soup is gone full circle and become an elite delicacy again. So they cost nearly times as much as the house. Nests one wholesaler. That I talked to you told me. He sold two kilograms of Wild Cave. Nests for forty three thousand dollars. Us so they're quite valuable and some people say it's partially because they absorbed those minerals from the K. Wall that they're you know they've got this more irregular shape and nutrients them whereas the house. Nestor very just like any sort of industrial farming. Everything is much more standardized. They're very white and pure looking. So a lot of people prefer the wild birds nests but those nests have been disappearing and even the caves themselves have been vanishing because people are quarrying limestone to turn into concrete to build the rapidly expanding cities and so ever. Since bird's nest soup became super hot a few decades ago people have been asking. Are these birds endangered and so really? It was in the kind of mid nineties at the started to take off to the point where there was a meeting held to discuss. You know. Should this this bird put on the endangered species list? We're seeing all these caves populations disappearing and all of these house. Farmers came forward and said No. This is not an endangered bird. Look we have a house full of these whiteness. Let's right here. It's confusing. Tinari says the in Malaysia. The messaging is especially mixed. The country has environmental laws. That protect swiftlets and say it's illegal to handle them but the agricultural department actively promotes with ranching. The Malaysian Wildlife Department is really unclear. If this bird is protected or not partially because of the sort of murkiness between the wild birds the semi domesticated house birds and meanwhile people do keep eating wild birds nests there well protected and so of course there's a black market for them intriguingly. It increasingly seems from genetic research that the wild cave swiftlets and the house. Swiftlets are becoming two distinct species. And so- conservationists are now arguing in favor of protecting and not eating the wild nests and only eating these less wild semi domesticated ones and this brings us back to the question. We asked Jeanneret after we talked about Congo. Should we be eating these weld foods? Yeah you know. I really didn't want this book to be depressing. And it's sort of hard to write about the environment environmental conservation without feeling the bit suppressed because the scale at which humans are transforming the natural world and the rate that we're doing that is just so incredible and destructive so. I think it's really hard because I think eating wild food is sort of like our birthright as humans. I mean the evolved as part of this much larger ecosystem than we ate and we hunted and gathered and that in itself impacted ecosystems and lead to evolution of other creatures. The back when we evolved there were many billions viewer of us and those wild species we used to hunt. They haven't had the same kind of population explosion as humans. In fact it's the opposite. There are a lot fewer of many of the wild animals. We like to eat in part. It's because we like to eat them and we've eaten too many of them but it's also because we've destroyed their habitat. Are I like to say that? Humans impact isn't necessarily a matter of kind. It's a matter of scale. So when you know in the nineteen fifties there was basically half as many humans in the world and eating wild food was not necessarily as problematic as it is now where there's just so many more people and so many more people with that desire to Something that we can't create ourselves to problem is like we said before when populations of wild animals get too low whether it's because we've eaten too many of them or because we've destroyed their habitat when that happens it has a knock on effect on the entire ecosystem. The health of the entire forest depends on these animals being there to play their various roles. And sometimes we've messed with the ecosystem so much and we've killed off so many predators that we actually have to play the role of the predators like here in the US if we didn't hunt deer their population numbers would explode. Because they're predators are mostly gone. Venison is delicious and the deer population is healthier for being cold. As is the landscape. So that's an example of win. It make environmental sense to eat wild meat. But as we've put more pressure on the forests on these animals there's another health issue that's come up and of course it's animal diseases that hop to humans something like corona we think originated in a bat. We don't know and then there was some sort of intermediate animal. I think the the current thinking is that might be a penguin. But we also don't really know a lot of people talk about this idea of disease spillover as a reason not to eat wild animals. The hunting and butchering wild animals are moments when a virus could jump from its wild host to humans and maybe cause a pandemic that is thought to be just what happened in. Makoko scientists think that Ebola originated in bats and then jumped to other mammals scientists. Think at least monkeys and chimps and gorillas and then somehow abolish jumped to the humans who are hunting those animals for food because it's transmitted through bodily fluids so that is an example of a disease jumping from a wild animal population to humans because of our appetite for wild meat. It is a risk but experts. Say That actually. The bigger risk is just are expanding footprint as species because as we cut down more and more forests and move into areas where we didn't live before we're having more and more interactions with wild animals and that sheer rise in directions contributes to the risk of disease. There's actually a lot of reasons why we might be seeing more of these genetic and they have less to do with eating wild animals and more to do with things like deforestation so we really have to understand these larger changes in the world. In terms of deforestation change urbanization dot are actually really increasing. The rate of the zoonotic diseases. Even one of the solutions we mentioned earlier. Branching wild animals to help meet the demand for their meat. That can also be risky in terms of disease. Transmission semi-wild civic cats and porcupines all crammed together under stressful conditions in closer contact with humans. That's the perfect setup for a disease spillover let so our Omega ranches of domesticated animals cows or chickens or pigs in the US. We've found a huge spate of antibiotic resistant. Ut is actually come from eating farmed. Animals that are given a lot of antibiotics. The animals themselves. Have this antibiotic resistant bacteria and then we consume it and it's in our bodies and we can get. Ut is from that antibiotic resistant Urinary Tract Infections or Uti's are one major health problem caused by our current system of livestock farming but the rise of antibiotic resistant. Bacteria from intensive animal farming threatens health in general in two thousand sixteen. The United Nations called antibiotic resistant bacteria the greatest and most urgent global health risk. Already today something. On the order of three quarters of a million people die each year as a direct result of these drug resistant infections and that number is predicted to rise to ten million by twenty fifty. This example were perhaps at greater long-term risk from antibiotic resistant bacteria then from animal diseases from Asia and Africa. It points to a fair amount of Byas in how we even talk about wild animals and diseases as European and American models. How to think about the wild and eating wild animals what happens is they get projected onto other cultures and people who are eating wild food out of necessity or tradition or preference pets perceived as bad or dangerous or even disgusting. It's like how we call wild animals that are being hunted in Africa. Bushmeat and we call deer wild game or how a market in China is called a wet market when it's just a market that isn't selling dried goods like most farmers markets in even in history. It was hunting if a rich nobleman did it and poaching if peasant did it still today people in the US who love freshly boiled wild lobster that they bought live and then killed. They would likely shudder at the idea of picking out a live wild duck for dinner in a Chinese market. But it's basically the same thing which means the prejudice is exactly that prejudice and like we said a lot of this comes from differences in how we relate to wild foods and wilderness itself. So this is one of the most interesting things to me. was sort of how our desire to eat. Wild foods actually really reflected our ideas of what wild nature was and so for a king. You know wild nature kind of was about having this land that he had control over and so eating. The animals that came from that was a way of showing his status and his wealth whereas for a poor person who is just assisting off a wild nature you know wild nature sort of a source of nourishment and survival and so I think throughout history you can really see how these two ideas while nature as sort of this place of of nourishment end sort of source of food versus the place that sort of Pristine almost mythical place and it really depends how much you have to interact while nature on a daily basis that that sort of viewpoint really changes in many ways. Gina races not eating wild food. Actually messes up our relationship with the natural world. We start thinking of humans as separate from nature rather than part of it and so I think when we lose wild fruits from our diets we really lose this connection with wild nature not as some distant sort of epic symbol but as something that we are really intimately part of as a large you know we are part of this larger evolution this larger ecology. This is really hard. Many people rely on wild animals and traditionally eaten them and love the flavor of the different meats. But is that enough of an argument if those animals are disappearing? It's an impossible question to give blanket answer to and in fact expecting a blanket answer is kind of part of the problem because again tied up in this whole question of whether we should eat wild animals is the nuance of where we fit and wild nature what role we semi domesticated. Humans should play in the larger ecosystem. Part of the question always ends up being whether we should be eating animals at all these days. Or if it's an issue of scale and we all just have to eat less meat whether it's domestic or maybe also whether it's wild not all you listeners. Who like us are desperately missing sitting around a table sharing food with your friends and community? We're doing an episode on this very topic. We have questions and we'd love to hear your record answers. What's your favorite thing about getting together for dinner with friends? How have you tried to recreate that online? What's missing what's one thing you can't get from these online communal dinners tape yourself on your phone. We have instructions on our website on the contact us page and then email your responses to contact at gastropod dot com things this episode to Gina Raila Service. Whose book is called Feasting Wild in search of the last untamed food. We have a link on our website at gastropod dot com. I wanted to also thank all you listeners who've been so amazing and not only supported the show with donations large and small but also who've written us such lovely emails as you all know it's just a two woman show this is our full-time job and advertisements are way down these days. We count on your support all the time to make the show and now more than ever thank you so much and for me it means everything especially right now like Cynthia said we are a two woman show but we did have helped this episode from a third woman are fabulous. Spring Intern Ashleigh beloved. We'll be back in two weeks with one of my favorite foods and maybe yours to pizza.
Is big pharma ignoring the poor?
"Hi today. Hillary Clinton on why Europe must curb immigration to stop right wing populists. But I the global diseases that have been ignored by big pharma. There are some diseases in the world that not many people think about. And elected disease is disease of people who haven't really got the money to be a market for drugs. That's really how it gets defined more than four billion people in the world's live on less than the equivalent of five dollars a day. Really, you could says disease of neglected people. You can't afford to buy drugs themselves, so foam issues companies will tell you costs around two and a half billion dollars to develop a new drug which is much disputed around four decades ago, the pharmacies called industry turned its back on new medicines for existing infections and diseases which kill, but you're not going to get that sort of money for any drug sniffing sickness or shag us all leash Moniz any of those other diseases that get called diseases. It's an imperative that we change the way we think about its drug development and health research that it actually benefits everybody's held a not just the health of the of the richest. From the garden. I'm in direction today in focus when big pharmaceutical companies walk away. How do you fight the outbreak of fatal infections? We start our journey in the Democratic Republic of the Congo where a disease known as sleeping sickness has killed thousands. And it has been ignored. To get dependent. Do it's an hour's flight from Kinshasa to the east. If you think deal seeing the size of western Europe. Then get into Bandundu is just a halt. Sara Lee is the health editor at the guardian. This was the attraction of the story for me people think of the Congo as a disastrous place place of violence and war with it bowler taking off we don't hear about anything. Good anything positive. She traveled to the Democratic Republic of the Congo in central Africa to meet this, man. Through. You. This is Dr Victor candy, and he's a magnificent, man. He's really quite revered by all those people I met who were actually working with leaping sickness. Sara thoughts a candy in a hospital in the town of mushy in the Bandundu region. They referred to him as the father of sleeping sickness. Sometimes it's the godfather sleeping sickness. He was the first director ever of the national sleeping sickness program. India see? What what is sleeping sickness sleeping sicknesses parasitical disease? So it's passed from one human being to another by the bite of the Tezzi fly the parasite enters the bloodstream, and the first stage is really unremarkable, it's headaches and fevers those sorts of things it could be absolutely anything. And then actually it might even go away and not go way, but disappear completely for two or three years. And then suddenly this person can become aggressive. He might start to shout just act out a carrot to completely. And so people think it's a soldier form of insanity that set in and then after that they start sleep a lot an awful lot. And then gradually from sleeping this loop into a coma and then invariably without treatment. They die. At the beginning of the century. In the Diaz e that were around thirty thousand cases of people with sleeping sickness Dr Condie. Now runs a government program that tests for the disease teams of screeners head out into often very remote areas with a mobile screening unit sometimes packed up onto the back of a Mehta bike. There are a lot of villages. That's not actually map at the moment. And the effort of screening people has led to finding ten thousand villages that nobody knew was there ten thousand. Yeah. And some of these villages actually move to escape from sleeping sickness? So if number of people were ill and redeeming, they would often take the village somewhere else in order to get away from solo. So what? So what sort of people? Did you meet Sarah who were living with sleeping sickness dealing with it? And there's a man called Alfred who is living with his mother. He was a fisherman. Here's a Fishman by trade. And I really that anybody much knew about it was when he was becoming very aggressive and shouting lot. He was beating up his mother who was in the house. I met his mother who said I ran away from him because he was hitting me and they diagnose leaping sickness, and they gave him treatment and a trial of new drug. But unfortunately, what he was there. His wife left him with one of their children his arm and leg on one side were paralyzed during the disease. So he can't work. And that means he's not bringing money and his wife and child will not come back until he can actually provide for them. Sleeping sickness has been destroying lives in killing people in the DRC and surrounding countries for centuries with little hope for survival. But there was a point whether disease a lot of attention. Diaz was colonized by the Belgians. I think every effort was made to develop drugs for sleeping sickness while the colonial regimes were existence. I think the colonial activities in cutting down trees in moving people about particularly moving populations of people from one place to another actually the Tutsi. Fly breeding grounds changed and the fly spread and the z spread. So there was a time where I think there was one outbreak. There was about eight hundred thousand people, and in fact that set on the scientists of the day actually to investigate and try to do something about it. They needed the drugs for the people they were ruling and for themselves as well. So these colonial scientists and a few institute of Tropical Medicine. What what came of that was there ever cure until relatively recently. The only drugs they had for that with Melissa parole, which is an awesome derivative off neck also. So a well known poison indeed, and it would kill one in five or one in ten of all the people who took it which meant that doctors were put in a really bad situation. Whether we're giving treatment to patients that they knew would kill some of them. So fifty years and nothing else was developed even though they had a medicine that was kidding five between five and ten percent of patients. And yes, that's right. These neglected people with the neglected disease. The country was known as the Belgian Congo from when it was callin is in one thousand nine hundred eight until nineteen sixty when it gained its independence eventually becoming the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Civil war quite quickly broke out. And when that happened European interest in the development of drugs for sleeping sickness when almost completely on the back burner. Vase forwards over forty years to the early two thousand and sleeping sickness is still killing people in the Diaz E dot com. Day has become the first I writer of the country's national sleeping sickness program. Your kiss your city Polk. Would need Dominican. He's lobbied hard for help from scientists in the World Health Organization. Some scientists were looking at the problem. It was hard to get the interest and the money for a new drug to be developed. But what about drugs that existed for another purpose? Repurpose drug is essentially when you have a drug that had been developed for certain disease certain indication when you take that same drug, but then explore whether it might also work against something totally different. In two thousand and five an NGO called the drugs neglected diseases initiative or DND I were on the case. L Torah is one of the founding members of the organization, and she was leading the work on sleeping sickness. We started out there was this one family, which is called nitroimidazol. It's a very broad family of components that we knew had potential as drug candidates. They needed something safe and effective. So they were given access to mine in Acis of developed unused chemical compounds that have been just sitting in the archives of pharmacies. Cook companies some of them for decades. When a drug is not new because it's already been used for another disease. You cannot patterns the chemical substance that underlies the drug, and so companies are not interested in repurposing because they cannot gets the monopolies based on which they have developed their financial model Elson who team hoped that something in all this data currently useless to companies could prove lifesaving for patients in the Diaz e. We set out in a very very systematic. Literature searched and searched and they say, you know, it's examples of where such mostly online, you have a number of searching for a needle in a haystack was difficult names that I cannot even pronounce and eventually they found affairs contender affects Zoll or fancy fish ought. There was this moment with like ES. We have something in your because there is we were always afraid to find out that drug was discontinued. Because it was stuck sick. For instance, while these data show that no there was no reason they just abandoned to compound, and we never knew exactly why. But certainly not because it was not medically promising. It was initially developed four parasitical infections in the nineteen seventies by German company. Hearst who are now part of Snuffy, but it was never used and certainly never identified as a potential cure for one of Diaz as biggest killers, which according to successful trials in the country. It now. The European Medicines Agency have just officially approved this jug for use and synovium helped with the trial. So why didn't they find a use for before? Well, we would never know the exact answer to done. But what we understood is that in the because that compound had been in early preclinical development late seventies early eighties. If I remember well, and that was at the time that many companies kind of dropped their infectious diseases program side, why did they stop what did they close down their infectious disease research? Well, because I mean those moments it was felt that infectious diseases were much less profitable than the newly emerging chronic disease areas where you had blockbuster drugs that were much more profitable than any infectious disease drug. With an infectious disease, you treat it cure it and people don't need the drug anymore chronic diseases, like cancer, or cardiovascular problems or base ity by their nature. You take the drug for a long time perhaps for the rest of your life. So it was a company you can make more money. And in the late seventies. People thought the medical industry was on top of infectious diseases. Antibiotics really put an end to many infectious diseases in the rich countries certainly in the seventies in the eighties. They were saying they were hailing the end of infectious diseases. They really were they were quite triumphalist about it. They were saying infectious diseases are beaten, this is it where is all over that. Was that was before aides, right? They have taken they were quite badly mistaken. And since then we've had antibody resistance, which means that the antibodies don't work as well as they should do. Infections may have been dwindling in one part of the world, but they were at present as ever emporer countries. Of course. I mean, it's very clear. This is not even a matter of the Bates. I think twenty years ago when we started the we needed to make the case that's Trump's companies had withdrawn from these areas because they were pursuing profit today different SCO companies acknowledged that solves that. Yes. Those areas are not of commercial interest to them. So unless there are major incentives, meaning in general, all kinds of public subsidies, push and pull mechanisms they are not going to engage. A mean, they say that himselves. Sleeping sickness isn't the only disease that could be cured in this way neglected diseases account for eleven percent of the global disease burden. So why pharmaceutical companies they keep of medicine doing more to develop drugs that are really needed? I think there is a very powerful narrative that the pharmaceutical companies are also a propagating that they are actually there to ensure that we have the drugs that we need the reality. Of course is very different roughly two-thirds of all the new drugs that are being developed. Pharmaceutical companies have no added value. We don't actually need them birth. With a lot of marketing they are being sold to us, and we buy them, and we pay high prices for them. And that's what makes the pharmaceutical industry run. It's not the medical breakthroughs, which are quite rare. Actually. And in the meantime, you have pretty urgent fatal infectious diseases irony. Attention. Exactly, exactly. But again, we have now established with models like the that. It is totally possible to have parallel system where you develop new drugs. According to the public interest. When you deliver a affective and safe new treatments that are affordable and accessible. What's happening in the day? I'll say is saving thousands of lives and quickly. We know that the turn of the century in the country. There were around thirty thousand cases of sleeping sickness and now last year that were eleven hundred cases and in the first half of this year, only three hundred fifty we're recorded. The progress in the day. I say is amazing. But this is a global issue. Well, we always talk about neglected communities in the sense that these are like a few people here or there, but neglected populations. They are the majority. Finding a way to rescue drugs that are not worth a penny to businesses, but which save lives has prompted big pharmaceutical companies to help organizations like dandy, I with their work. But as I'll Torah says, it's not just the health industry that can make changes. If we are all convinced of that. And we press that upon our friends our family our policymakers that's the markets are not going to solve the poverty, nor the lack of health equity. I think that we are getting along way because that is what policy-makers need to hear that they need to prioritize health over business. And that is a responsibility that we can all share. I think else. Thank you so much new album. You can read more from Sarah as Lee's trip to the DRC on our website where you can also find a film of her time with candidate by Millie Harvey and fade graphs by David LeVine. Head to the garden dot com. Next up an opinion. Hillary Clinton tells us how mass migration in Europe, maybe pushing voters to political extremes. Welcome back. Hillary Clinton has been talking to the guardian about mass migration and she argues that for Europe toward of right wing populism. A welcoming approach to newcomers will no longer work. I think that Europe needs to get a handle on my Gration because that's what lit the flame. And I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken, particularly by leaders like angle Merckel. But I think it's fair to say Europe has done its part and to send a very clear message. We are not going to be able to continue to provide refuge and support. Because if you don't deal with the migration issue, it will continue to roil the body politic. And there's no doubt in my mind that Brexit was largely about immigration and the lies that were told by the leave campaign, but immigration really helped to push over the line. I think there is a difference between what's happening in the United States and what's happening in Europe. Although there are really important similarities and. There does seem to have been a response reaction in Europe to mass migration that has set off a lot of the political consequences including electing. Leaders who have a tolerance for really closing off the political space against the press against civic action against political opponents. So the original impetus may have come from the negative populace rejection of open borders and the flood of migrants who've come from the Middle East and North Africa. But it has morphed into something more than that. In the United States the migration crisis. If you will is much less real but still exploited by the current administration instead of the millions who flooded into Europe, we have tens of thousands. It appears as though there is a reaction against leadership expertise experience, and it's hard at this point to know, whether that's just a passing phenomenon or whether there's a turning point that has so pushed people's negatively toward democratic norms and institutions that were on a more pun minute path. That was Hillary Clinton talking to the guardians Patrick winter as part of our knee populism series. You can read it all at the gardens com. That's it for today. And for this week dealer has no how you're feeling about today in fakest share your thoughts. And if you have a subscribe. My thanks to Sara Bazeley else Raila and Hillary Clinton and Patrick winter producers today when my three row and David waters Santa Zein was by axel Keke Akita and these actives on a cult Jackson a film may not. We'll see you Monday.
Reshaping Life From Within- Phil Goddard
"This is your weekly spark to live life. Line somewhere along the way we have forgotten what is most important to us. How can we remember who we are fine. The way better purpose and truth join me. Young media and attaches coup dan. Cover your joy and courage to truly live to live life aligned all right welcome back to another podcasts of the live life aligned. Today of an amazing guests with me. Phil guttered fill. Gutter is an executive and relationship coach. And he's traveling around the world while come to our So please it actually to be here. Thank you for providing me well it. It's real our pleasure so kind of to give the guests or not. Guess the audience a little background on you is. Can you just kind of gave us a little. An idea of how you've come to be where you are at now now. You don't have to go into every detail but just kind of a rough overview so people can understand a little bit of your journey. yeah I've been married and divorced twice. By as a way they reflecting back. I can see those as significant stepping stones at the end of my first marriage. That was when i started looking at Human behavior because i look at marriage and thought what the hell happened will can. I have done differently. So that was when i started at the human behavior. Nine hundred ninety eight Got into coaching. Just as part of the expiration in two thousand five and i actually remarried In two thousand and eight a work one morning at the following year so it was a matter very long with absolute clarity. That i didn't want to be in that law. It was a a kind of box life off the shelf. Books life The big house. The nice car. And i was still in like a nine to five job at that point whilst still catching on on it and i just wanted out and i m eventually as as having moved at i i did start coaching. Just as my soul location In two thousand and eleven and i've been coaching since and what's really emerged from. That is what i tend to talk about. The most with my clients is relationships personal professional but autumn. Either the spoiler here is really what we're focusing on is their relationship with themselves because all other relationships have an impact from that. I guess physically. Well just as as part of a part of that shift and expiration of what i want to do with my life I i've spent a lotta time in greece. I hold Coaching immersion just one on one coaching emotions on their on kinshasa have been doing that for years. And elliott this year. I just felt okay. Let's get out of my hometown. That i've been living in my life for half a century and really just gave up pretty much all of my belongings and move to bali Coming up to two months ago. Yeah so that's where. I'm at all right. He said something interesting which you said. You said that you know looking back. Those two relationships were real stepping stones. Right how come like what has how's that combat that those things have become stepping stones because most people would see them. I know some people feel bad about it or like all. I don't wanna talk about this stuff anymore. It's like in the closet or under the carpet kind of thing. A and the to make complete sense. Because when i took about these two marriages motor. People will ask well. How come you got married. Like the second time and ended up being emerged the realize she didn't want but in a way it makes complete sense. The first march is absolutely crazy. Abusive of a piece in that marriage Yeah i look at that. Those like ten years of yes very very unhealthy very very unhealthy. And i i in in a lotta respect even recognize that person but coming out of some pretty low self esteem like. Let's just say you know very low opinion of myself actually then meeting somebody after a year or two Potty pretty hard actually coming out of the outer coming out of that marriage but then just meeting somebody who treated me very very different treated me very well That i really enjoy being with. And i enjoyed the lifestyle so Yeah link that to me. At least i guess it made sense at the time. Of course right it. Just it just made sense to at the time. But i fell into this trap or any of Yeah of putting mar energy into maintaining a lifestyle. They always felt that there was something missing. And i mean. I can say out front. That was what. I have so much more of nowadays in my life is the connection with people i know are for many many years. I always bringing up a family. In my i in my first marriage two stepchildren and our child An not became like an overnight stepdad at his age of twenty and So you know that's the vallone bring it up bring up a family u-haul to get time to breathe and even reflect on what you really want life of course coming out of that I guess i dreamed up. This is lifestyle at the big house than is 'cause on the foreign holidays eating out again and all that kind of stuff does any whole bunch of money. And i just woke up one morning with absolutely clarity that i did want to be in that anymore. I it it was. Oh sassy pofficial. I ready it. It just felt. I could see that i wanted to feel deeply connected to my partner which we want. We very compatible domestically. But there wasn't a deep connection. We weren't necessarily interested in the same same deepa things. We were really good friends. We are interested in eating our going to football. The things like that but We had a spike about any of the any of the stuff that that much loss coaches probably enjoy doing. So i guess coming out of the first marriage stepping stein. There was just realizing how flipping lost. I was and still took me the second one to release of wake up to what i really wanted. Out of life It's beautiful and and i'm just interested like wake up with clarity right. You don't want this anymore at this point. Did it take courage to you to follow that through to be like okay. I'm clear and i'm going to get out or was easy. Because he was so clear. Like how was that for you. What of course without the rim of nation and deliberation about it. It was easy but i My wife we'd only been married. What was eighteen months less than i think. Such incredibly incredibly carnival and Gosh did it take courage. I it's an interesting concept courage to actually just the whole concept of courage. So courage is only necessary to the extent that we give fair. Relevance looks to me so if i give my favorite relevance than i need courage driver come the fair but waking up and just i felt like this inner ache. I guess an inner ache that i wanted something different and to me. It just doesn't feel like it found. It doesn't feel like it took any courage together that like once. I saw what i saw with that clarity. I couldn't stay. This was this was actually just before christmas. And i said to myself ok okay. I don't have to mess up the whole. Christmas holiday is told yourself right. I'm not going to have this conversation with my wife until after the new year And like i say was literally just before christmas probably a day or two before christmas day. We got for christmas day and boxing day. But i think the day after. I couldn't keep it in tried conversation So to me no. It doesn't feel like it took courage some people In a way you know some people's opinions would and i lost some friends actually that Who wouldn't necessarily understand that deep desire within me and just think i was crazy to give up such such a lifestyle by. I didn't want to be married to stow. Yeah definitely from the outside maybe to some people it seemed erratic -rageous. Where did that come from. And he's moving on a bit bonkers But what you mentioned here about waking up and just knowing knowing that's it that's it actually happened to a friend of mine also has to do with relationships. I think she was just taking a bath at home that been boyfriend girlfriend for a while. She's thinking bash and thinking about the relationship and suddenly just hit her exact how she feels and while she was in the bath which is kind of inconvenient or like oh i have to tell him now i have to tell him now so then she had to actually leave the bathroom and like half the conversation but for her. It was also like you have to. It's they're like it's in this moment you have to. You have to communicate you have to say it and so when you were talking about courage and how you're talking about the connection between courage and fear thus very interesting. I want to ask. You may be then the right question to ask you is that you have a great deal of trust them. If it's not courage did you just trust the feeling. Is that what kind of pulled you through. And i don't think i did i. I mean i look back and think well come on feel. You must have trusted. If he didn't have courage. You must have trusted kind of thing but really. It's it has much simpler than that. I could not stay. I could not stay and continue to live really without like ally and It's it's it's kind of like does it. Does it take courage to get out of the house. When you know you just have to get out of the house. The united states you have to trust it was it was really. That's impulsively paso that if that sounds more like a complete shift in perspective where it simply made sense so in a way it almost in like logic or reason because it was so black and white. So it's like you know that for example gravity exists. So you wouldn't necessarily throw yourself over a boat because we know that gradually will pull you down towards the ocean right so it makes complete sense to not do that as a take courage a within the boat. Do you have to trust yourself to stay with the boat. Probably not because we're not gonna put in that effort to fight the truth where the logic that well gravity exists. I it makes sense to me. So i'm going to say that. Yeah it really. Is that simple. That would just made sense at at the time. But it's interesting. Because i think we can look back and introduced many concepts and ideas as to how something happened. Ready just happened just happened right. So is this also the the way that you are living. Your life kind of now is is that you don't really think too much about things you just. If you make sense you just go it. Or how's that kind of happening in your life. At the moment god sometimes so i say the second marriage moved into an apartment like you know because i had this huge house with god and everything and i wanted out of all of so i wanted to completely downsizing i go governor a lot of stuff then i thought even to the palm for six months whilst i decide what i want to do with the rest of my life and i was there for nine and a half years. So there's a lot of inertia. If you like that build up so here i was establishing yet another lifestyle of of comfort a. I think it answer to your question. Well sometimes in some respects. I like everybody i can over. Think stuff for sure in if there was a if i get master's degree and now i probably could and but there are other things like my really my whole business strategy and certainly in a law of in life is at experimentation and let's see what happens. I've done some pretty crazy stuff. You know Go flown halfway around the world to meet a woman and proposed to the hadn't even met before main. How flipping crazy is that it some and and i think this is. This is also what happened over. This last year is people who are considered my closest friend. Tcp to ask me a little every year ago. Like who am. I close friend to give you a list with six nine on it and i'm no longer friends with any of those six people that that in pretty you know pretty tough to to contact with but when i look that objectively i can see just how different version you have like. One of those friendships Thirty six thirty seven of thirty six thirty seven year. Friendship and comfortable this twenty year french but i can just see how we want diff- from things out of friendship we want different things out of life and some of those friends of looked at what i've done in my life is yeah come on. Let's see what happens. Do this crazy thing is give up everything like leaving to bali. Once again i gave up all of my belongings. Go some stuff in my mother's attic but You know have case of stuff. Here of just what i need and congress had nothing. I kinda just have nothing. i like. That feels really liberating to me. But of course you know. Many people live what we might very traditional life and we have a very happy home stability all that stuff but i think perhaps realizing the illusion of stability on the outside frees us from so much stuff that we might cling on or the chase on the outside so i feel free that night of a foul in my life. I've probably have in a stability much more stable and grounded and indeed happy upper. I've ever been in my life and yet a have less have less. My life is is quite a road. Ice derides You know in many respects. But it's it's good it's juicy. i'm loving it. I want to Trashy about that. Because maybe someone listen in make. Oh oh no. I don't believe you must be miserable. You lost your six best friends for decades of you know friendship. You've let that great. How's that great job. You're what are you doing here with just a suitcase like this guy must be miserable so it sounds like you have lost a lot in terms of material things if left were let go of a lot of things. So what do you have now do. I have now. I have me like to much of that stuff. So much of that. Life could be a distraction on his sound kinda cliche but just saying i have not done enough. I've expressed at like this before so grittiest answering the question i've had and it just it was like wow i have me. I have me so much of that stuff distracts us from that. We are we fully into this life of of chasing chasing chasing. I didn't even know that. I could do a nine to five job now because i think i would ever take it seriously enough for my employer to to want me to continue having said that when i eventually did quit my job at two thousand eleven for the last time i had to give a couple of months notice two or three months night. S and They were the most enjoyable and productive and effective tide had there that they asked me to stay. Because i just got a point where it didn't give a shit. wasn't no longer in the hamster wheel of of social conditioning life. So do i get miserable. I experience times of sadness. I have wept about of my friends. Of course i have. I have i mean the day before i flew at the very morning the morning. I left the uk to fly to bali in october Yeah i i just wept uncontrollably at the loss of you know the thirty zero friendship with somebody who was my best friend. Since i was a young boy i think h twelve. But this this I think there's a more in touch with the what the deeper thing that's going on for all of us deep for us. So so i remember being in in that job And setting like in the nineties and in the early two thousands. Before i really started looking at at human behavior and what makes us tick i guess my work and my family my life so all of the outside stuff was my life maintaining that so if that what lies that's what life is to you trying to hold onto all of that. Transient stuff like we have kids. They grow up. they go to school. They leave home whatever rights and like all of our stuff office. Transient you just always chasing. So like they can be real misery. That were the less. I have now. And i m. There isn't anything from me to really hold onto out. So that's an idealistic view. I'll be honest with you about that. Because of course like i still want things. I still like If i'm involved relationship for example. I still want that to go certain way so i can still get up about ice gatt. Get upset about things but if feels much more in a surface level it's like The misery if like sadness any upset or anxiety in that stuff doesn't last doesn't last so long there's a i guess developing habit of just letting go i kind of want want to follow up with that because it's really beautiful. What he said. I'm also aware that some people who probably releasing to like wait a second. What are you saying exactly with this because you know when we have all this stuff yes Misery in the chasing. But also the the misery i can in hold trying to hold it on right track to holding into place and keeping it in in that place right and it sounds like you have experienced or you are living in from a different perspective. It sounds like you are not because most people are like no no. No i cannot lose my job or my partner or whatever it is right and it. It sounds like you have a lot less of that. is that right. Yeah i've lost people who have died. Suddenly now had an uncle. He was the peter pan of off family Like he was actually sixty seven but he probably looked about fifty. I mean he was just in an as a child growing up he was. He was like the i wanted to be like him and he was. Yeah he he was living life to the full and he was fishing on the beach one day and just fell forward. It was lights out. Had gone really that suddenly and that way that Woke up the whole family to To death like we're aware of that I've had in a like. I say these two marriages in particular the first one. The first match held onto that like i even as the divorce initially art. No no we can make this work. And even as even as recently as two years ago experienced a break-up which completely floored me there were times then talk about being Unhappy of being in the fetal position so being On the floor at my lounge and yet even then as like that was probably the that was the toughest heartbreak. I'd experience heartbreaking quotes. And but that was the toughest hall breakout experienced and yet i was better equipped to handle it to really understanding what was yes. I can't remember a question. It's okay well based our read for me being with you here in utah. There's something different than what than a lot of people. And how people are relating to the world and how they are handling life there is a there seems to be more ease within you even when challenges. Come you know you overcome that. Of course everyone overcomes them however they they often seems to be a stickiness to things and that seems to be a lot less right so i think once she see you can he can survive anything. You can't survive anything. I mean. I've i've seen by comparative nas children and they're still here. I mean that must be pretty much the most awful thing that can happen to anyone and yet they're still here and still at times able to laugh and experienced jaure so all of that stuff that we might tell us out re that. Oh i couldn't have. I couldn't lose. my job. couldn't handle that that that's not true. It can refilled true. And it can be gosh i. I have felt absolute auto despair and heartbreak and sadness and misery. I still experienced that. So maybe there's a different hair and just not trying to avoid having those experiences by kids completely. Okay to feel heartbroken so if you for example if you're dating and exploring having relationships with somebody right this most people have fear around that. Oh if i get too involved. And i end up footing in with this person. And that's not reciprocated. Or you know the relationship any lasting months and in our experience top brackets like trying to avoid certain experiences in life but once you stop trying to avoid experiences then things to me just seem to flow much easier so my perspective has changed in putting much energy into avoiding experiences. Do some of course. Because i have some very strong preferences. But i see my preferences for ready for what they are. Identify could put that into it. I can deceive the those preferences in a way my There's something may i guess has preferences but i'm not longer caught up in trying to control so much so i fail my my perspective. Now is much more van observatory role. Robin trying to control. Which is why i guess. Use those words forward. Let's see what happens like this. Let's throw this thing makes him repos. Let's see what happens much much more so than let's try and make something happen and let's try chase that and that's trying to control that. Let's let's see what happens. I want to take this conversation a slightly different direction just because this kind of question in my head with relationships right your work will with your clients regards relationships. Kim and i had a pretty tough time. We've been together for several years now. Even there were quite young. We spent like quite a bit of our lives together. And like you said you know he grow so much as people and you also especially in relationship is seems like our blind spots or what we are having issues internally with it seems to just come or amplifies to amplify Like when it comes to like a really intimate relationship so that i want to ask you with the way that you're working with people. How how then do you approach whether your clients end up realizing that. They should leave a relationship not not. This is no longer relevant for human. I'm not trying to saying you know. We have worked through so many things and there were moments where like make it or break it. You know we have to get through this together. Were where else is going to hurt us in the long term just mchugh hurting each other in a long term and and that's not how we want to live so am pretty sure that with your clients day also really difficult moments like that. Where are they really going to work through it together. Do they trust that. You know that like one day at times. Okay or is there. Maybe a sudden realization that we just like you did. That's it you can't do this anymore. But they're working with you so if if you're working with someone did it always make us through or are there moments where they're like. Oh no you helped me. Realize i got a i got i leave right. So how sure. Yeah yeah for sure. So it's it's to me. it's never really about. How helping clients get to a particular outcome. It's really helping them to get clear. That's that simple helping them to get clear and really the price and is to help them to see you know. There's an awful lot of social conditioning in relationships like an awful lot of social conditioning relationships. I hope clients to see past that to help them see like what ideas and concepts are a play on those ideas of how people think it should be and in in clearing those away if you can have have it be anyway. You won't getting in touch with and getting really honest about what you want irrespective of what the social norms are. What the what the what in other people's expectations opinion. That's get beyond all ideas and concepts. What's in your heart. What you want. And most people know that can be a lot of fair and now of course right of what would clients who suddenly realize they want to change marriage in particular way this unconventional And there's a lot of an adult affair in that but Feeding that they want to all know what is in their hearts and now say doesn't always end up that people stay together and in fact there was one month this year i coached three different people And all three of those in that one month decided and their relationships but that was from a place of love clarity and gratitude to just really get in touch with want and they could see yes. This is this relationship isn't what we want and of course yes it can go. It can go the other way lie. I couldn't give you any figures for the most part. It does seem that when people get end up being press more honest and then more loving that has a very positive impact on relationships and their life. But it's it's never about achieving a certain outcome is about getting in touch with seen through the bs days of how we think things should be. What do you really want. And is that possible in in this relationship Can you just share. I'm just curious. What are some of the things that are are that you encounter often that are ideas that are comes social conditionings in relationships that people the people get hung up on just like a few if anything comes to mind the the idea of monogamy for example. Yeah so And for some that's my personal preference as well. That's like yes i feel. I want to be in an open or or Police relations that's my preference. Like i'm clear on that for others there. Is that like desire. If you like to do something differently also Even just a simple thing of people wanting to to share a house but not share shower bedroom it can become into that kind of level of detail and then kind of be right themselves well in our married to this person. I should be sharing a bed like well. Who says It could be some really big ideas or just the small details and and like i say there's an awful lot of social conditioning at play within relationships. How do you want it to be. You know just when we brush that stuff assaulted. Alright so i kind of want to start shifting away from the relationship More towards the Career because you also have tapped this shift in career and that is something that i know. A lot of people are interested in as well Because they feel like their job sucks. It's bad and they have to get out and do something else. Can you just share with us. How this has been for you and also we have gotten into it in two thousand and you seem to have left a completely by two thousand eleven at correct i i started a an apprenticeship. Nineteen eighty-four thirty september. Nine hundred four pretty good with dice and his random thing but a random things so the guy who sat next my very first day at work on that day. That's why i remember that date Sixteen years old and this guy comes to sit next to me. Do you mind if i sit here. He's remained one of my best friend for the study of years and is okay now living in bali. So we've been meeting if that's just just mind how that's worked out anyway so Yeah a technical career in it Started at a fairly young age age. Twenty twenty one into leadership moving to leadership positions Still maintain very very technical work in software development as well all aspects of software development life cycle But i just really enjoyed the people aspect every enjoyed people aspects and so as my career progressed is in more senior leadership positions and said to me. It's not it hasn't been just a sudden. Change has been an evolution. Jim because as my technical career progressed further white from the technical. An great. by the way. I've been like being interested in inflammation interested in technology and gadgets and stuff as a hobie. That's much as the job but it for me for a very long time is about the people. How do we how do we. How do we enable teams to work at their best. How do we nurture happy luffing environments in the workplace so. It was a very natural progression to draw the job aspect. Drop all of that technical aspect of that work and go full time into you know having that the my verification of helping people live them joyous loving life and loving relationships bunch fruitful relationships in the workplace visit our coach nada peaking around leadership and that professional relationships and in that business as well as in that personal relationship so to me. It doesn't feel like a sudden flip and a sudden shift. It's really been an evolution right. And so when you when you actually decided to to take the leap and you quit for most people list. What feels like it feels like leap. I'm going to now. And i'm going to leave this kind of stable paycheck behind. How how was that for you. Was that any thinking around that of liking. I'm going to quit elmo. Gosh yes yeah probably took me two years. Once i started entertaining the idea younger. Get out. i'm gonna go of the nine to five alexa chi-ching like on on the side but very much charging some small fees. There's no way that i could even had any notion. I could live off that without significantly more work but there were aspects of the job. The i really wasn't enjoying all the office politics as well and has like okay. i'd i. I became clear yes. I don't want to do this anymore. But it still took me quite some time. I probably about two years to actually account giving notice now and there was. There was a straw that broke the camel's back at you. Something happened in the workplace. And i said okay enough's enough and not having this anymore one of my superiors. If he like moved member of my team without knowledge. She just didn't turn up for work. One day i'm having this anymore. Yes i did deliberate over to the extent that mike. My son is like my best friend but he would give me send me messages. Have you quit you. have you quit yet. I we knew that was going to happen. And i would drive home from the office sometimes pretty much in tears because i just did not want to do it just to that. I wasn't. I wasn't doing what i wanted to do. I guess it was similar feeling to waking up being that marriage and then to try to stay in it like for me that my sound for a lotta people. That's very outside in. But i think we're just dancing in the energy olivet anyway So it was very clear to me. I did not want to do that by. I stayed because yeah was any a lot of money. A lot of money really good money. That played a significant part until we see that they're more important things ready than than any money and eating out in push restaurant and the lack artist off so It was it was a it. Felt like yeah really tough decision. I had more of the notion rather than a plan of what i wanted to do. And actually i would do diff. I would do very differently if i was in that situation again. Enough catching people around this. Who have wanted to leave their job. My mindset at the time actually. I think this is really important. My mindset was. My job was in the way of what i wanted in life. I couldn't see at the time how it was actually supporting the so. Yeah catch people around this. I i encourage them to look at look at that. How is how are their existence circumstances they really want to get out of how how those existence circumstances supporting them in moving to what it is. They want to do next sent. Ti just abandoned ship. And i on reflection. I that i could have That could have been much more gentle and resourceful what. What was the the implication or or consequence of you just abandoning the ship. Like how did that play. Was that a struggle at. I was spending a lot of savings you know the end of the day. I'd saved up a whole bunch of money and i could've managed that very differently and indeed. I had some reluctance to invest a savings to help me start to build a business. Like i of fast around the two years from two thousand eleven to two thousand and thirteen fact around rather than really investing and getting coached on on building Building this business i was. I was winging it so definitely doing it differently. I would've If i could have done who can. Who knows a who knows. We can't really kind of really know that i would have done it differently. But given the opportunity. And seeing what i've seen i can see how could have seen the joke differently. I could've seen the job as a has a way to support me. Maybe i could have gone to negotiate three days a week rather than just quitting completely as an example as a practical and logistical example. And yet definitely be more willing to invest in getting some help support to then move forward rather than kind of being lost already. Know what the hell today next thing they are very. Valuable lessons for people are listening. You know i i do. I do like sometimes to to see if i can learn something from what people are sharing. You know our own experiences. We hear it and then we follow me. Oh yeah right. Someone told me about this year's but sometimes we do can can taking things experienced to heart and see we cannot do a little differently. And so i mean people do have a very who want to get out of the job do have a very negative connotation off towards the job and not seeing that this is supporting them so for for for those kinds of people. It is clear it's the job i mean. If you go back to two thousand nine hundred thousand eleven. It was clear it's the job right so if you speak to someone like this. How can we help them. See that actually. No it's it's not the job or you're not saying i'm not saying that That it's not like. I said we get know. You guys understand that. We're creating our experience of life with us whether in us and but the thing is the example using that just to to solve expand that point out what. I'm crane experienced of life. If i walk into a room and this music confident. Like i'm not going to sit there and try and allman meditate myself out of that to enjoy that. I'll just turn the music off or the tv of whatever. Right so i think that's that's that's important. However i there's a kind of a phenomenon i observed so if i've once i've decided that is the job and i want to change. I will reinforce my decision by considering all the reasons why i need to leave that job. And all the reasons why shouldn't be there so it's like I still remain once in a said something. Like human beings are the only creatures on the planet that believe they have to crap in their existing nest to justify moving into a new one. Like now i just want to. You want to move into a new nest done. Done had to crack my existing nasty nice. Oh i want to help people to see that. They can still have any joyful experience of their existing circumstances and still remain committed to move on from them. Like let's let's We don't have to really justify what we want right. I am telling ourselves on composed stories about in a why why we why we want something. Different I i love that. I mean i've really really love that. Because that is what i used to do is always justify not necessarily with negative negative stories but also with positive stories so for example i i went to america enough years to study martial arts full time and i'll make up all the reasons. Why is a good idea. And i will tell those reasons to to people because they questioned me why to fuck. You're doing this because it's insane. You know like why. Are you leaving switzerland. Wire going somewhere for this program to studying martial-arts. I was supposed to be a lot longer than two years now. It would be like no. I have my reasons. I have them all reads now and i can give you the reasons and the truth of the matter was it didn't matter i just wanted to go. I just want them to go. That actually the truth you know and everything else was just made up and we often think sometimes wonder ready go ahead. Yeah yeah i. I sometimes wonder really whether it look at it. I think the reasons comes later like we just have these urges. It might be wisdom something within us. Whatever it to me. It doesn't really matter spy. Ga- i have these. Have these urges these desires. And then i'm going to make up reasons and then i and then our users like so look over because of those reasons i have the desire but i think the reverse is true. We just have the desire. We create the reasoning to justify the desires and muslim time. The reasoning is very status buying for other people. But uh i mean you tried to tell that to yourself you still know for us when we were about to leave last november Some people were asking us. Why like how did this come about. And why and where. And what and why mostly and and then you know we're gonna social setting so we try to answer the question like good you know people would in the conversation. We just started to hear all these sentences pour out and none of them sounded right because there wasn't really a reason but then we found ourselves in this awkward conversation where we're just saying things that kind of made sense at night but they weren't really the reasons it's A in a way. It's like the bane of our experience of that meaning making we make things mean something. Have you noticed a on your side when you when you allow yourself to do things just because life not making up those stores how you found it easier for you to just go about and live life well. Yes to the extent thought done have expectations emma again. Even that's not true. Because i can. I can still have expectations. I guess it's all about out our relationship with my expectations. So i can be winning. Let's see what happens. Yes i have a preference or have some expectations of how life might work out. But if. I'm not holding onto those expectations particularly tightly very very largely then Yeah again is this. Just feels a sense of freedom a sense of freedom in that whereas if i i used to be able to follow football when my boy was growing up we had like a season ticket for about fifteen. Years of local team has to get really into an irate and allow the result to spoil Because they've never had much success. So i would allow the football results to have an impact on my experience with like saturday afternoon and evening and Just really seeing that again the yes. I'm creating that so. Of course. I had a very strong preference for how the that match. Mark lay out and Sometimes i would have an expectation as well but it wouldn't always be met and really it's about just seeing seeing that i mean okay just a game. I think there's a there's a famous football manager by the way. This kind of illustrates gonna of the other share for how seriously people take. I think it was same as bill. Shankly i think you said some people think a matter of life and death but he's more important than that but of course that's baloney. It's not really just a game right really is just a game. But here's the thing. This is so many things in life that we get so caught up in to like tiffany jobs right. I mean most people who lose their job setting up note everyone and my heart goes out to people who have lost their jobs in have struggled for years and i have Members of my family in that situation. I'm not dismissing that. At all. But i would also like to reflect. Okay if you've lost your job is he can get so caught up into that and have so much of our life and work attached to being a particular job and yet most people do find other jobs most and a one thing. I've noticed as well that just things to work out. Things seem to work out. So there's a there's a lot of fear in life on just simply trying to maintain the status quo but that denies so much richness in life I really love that. What you just said. And i think this is a good point to start wrapping this conversation up. It's been a real pleasure to have you on on this podcast and i'm sure that many people will will take a lot of nuggets with them and you know especially with with this this. You didn't say that it this way but the staleness when we'd hold onto things rigidness right when we do look at life it is as a flow to life right and when we are so rigid. It's like we. We can't really flow as much anymore or it's trying to keep trying to go back to the old way you know that that often caused quite a bit of troubling might experience so there. Where can people find you where they get in touch with you if you want to interact more with you. Yeah thank you for that serve. Made it very easy for people to find a a reasonably active facebook connect with facebook of made that really easy you can go to. Fb fill p. h. I l. dot com and then go to my facebook profile websites fuji dot com and i have a podcast which has linked to on their website as well a podcast cool coaching life. Which is full catches primarily and. I'm starting a new podcast. As well could naked hearts the naked heart podcast which are focused very much more on relationships and yet being naked metaphorically for the most part anyway in in puzzle and professional relationships. None of thirty enjoyed this conversation with you guys. again thank you very much for having me on as a guest. Oh you're welcome now. There's one last question i asked by. Put people on quite a cheesy question and enjoy it. Because i want to see what people respond to it. So you're about to die since last moment but you have one last thing he can say to your fellow human beings. Would you want to say if anything at all again. Maybe my answer would be cheesy choose. Hugs beautiful thank. You want to continue the conversation with us. We'd love to hear your thoughts have questions. Join the insightful. Discussion at alignment community dot com known.
Off The Record: Anthony's Parents Feelings About Dancing Career (ft. Anthony Lee)
"We need them back. We talk about whatever we want. And today we welcomed beer. You ain't doing that matching tattoos on both fingers. What does that say. Kim were looks like asian character. Meant to be designed like that with sideways. Cayenne how does your mom feel about your expectation of the kinshasa's world please elaborate. How does she feel about your career. Choice is good now. As long as i pay the bills. They don't do. I mean my mom. My my mom had a difficult time. Maybe understanding seeing What was not traditional right especially for their generation. You know being first generation. Asian grandparents city living a village They they pretty much lived in villages out in vietnam so when he came over in hawaii and got married and then my sister Yeah in the us and then Came overhead me pretty much my whole childhood. They run like a dry cleaners. And your dry cleaners. That's like one stereotypically asian and in two. It's it's a honest work right. You just work really. It's work just claim people's clothes labor all day every day so your understanding of like your life and what. You're working hard for to give your children option a classic story of just like i'm gonna work my ass off and just stuff that i'm cleaning other people's clothes my whole life in order to let you have opportunity to go to college so close so i go to college. Spend all this money right on a degree bachelor degrees. But you don't use we'll technomic video so you don't use it trust me and then after you get a degree. You're like buck disagree. I'm gonna dance. That's how you backstab. May she said exactly. So i mean logically speaking flipflopping bitch. Why don't you stick with what you fucking house man when you told that major get pushed. What did you you matron. I'm asian film. That's not traditional. No but it was fun where they call it that that's already like i think you're already in college. You know what i'm saying. If it's like offered in a reputable place then you must accept it more. You know what i'm saying. But i go back out and not have a regular workforce schedule to not have the clock into stuff to not receive a paycheck from other people. You ever tell your mom that there's media studies now in college and that actually and blowing actual thing the study now. It's funny to like apply for a bunch of schooling rejected. Right when you're like in high school and then like you guys know our social media we've gone to those same ivy leagues now and like done presentations at fuck face. That's true you know so like just that conversation has been able to shift people's perspectives. That is funny you. You're going to speak and teach students that you got rejected tele reject and some of them are ivy leagues even apply. Because i knew. I didn't have a chance. Would've been waste money so funny. You guys i to hear your story. What the hawk. My story man do. Your parents are dead every my son. He's a stupid ferryman. Move around and music. He just fucking shit. I don't think that had a little bit more openness and logic to back up his understanding she was a. She is a pretty much a manager. I think financial brokers and stuff off owns a home got married has two children very great example role model. That that's easy for parents to digest. Oh yeah for example. I definitely look like rabble. Cast like what in your whole family to out of your cousin sheet for show schiller piano. Don't speak chinese. Didn't make it into the good schools. Don't get like a traditional kind of work environment all that but love it your action for noor heo all the all your studios and like they have now and shit tight. Yeah that's that's the most tangible being for like asian parent right. It's like conceptual company this group kansas. Llc performance group like okay cool. the here's a doj. Oh you have a place i understand. It's like you have you build a million dollar and they're like what are you going to get a real job and you're like working at the post office and they're like that's right. That's that's my son right there. My dad just doesn't get anything unless it's in the newspaper like an actual physical newspapers talking about a youtube and maker studios for years and he was just like alec. You didn't go to school like you didn't get the job whatever. And it's not acting you know traditional media then like five years later. He's like the bitcon going on and he read about maker getting sold to disney for half a billion dollars and he was like. Have you heard of maker studios dad. I've been yes. I would tell you about this for like five years. He's like well. They just got bought by disney. And there's a video convention going on right now and there's a have you heard of angry cat and grumpy cat he's like i don't know there was a famous cat. It's going to be there the annoying z. Read it out in a newspaper. Oh wow. I wonder how. It's going to be our version of that. Working right. twitter didn't happen did happen on twitter. We won't even know the new no tiktok. That's i should know. I'm literally in the example. We're both the example. Because key isaac will come up to me and he'll be like oh mom let me do. He's trying to do this one thing and i'm like we doing. I learned this from tiktok. And i'm like what does he make tiktok content to no he he doesn't he's just consumes it. Let's go about my dad now is he. So he watches our logs and that's how he stays caught up to our life which is pretty cool because in quarantine doesn't really come over that much and so now i think because he's washed it so much and you watch all the videos. Youtube is a thing to him now. Like he knows it's an actual thing. He's finally caught up so like the other day for father's when he came over to hang out with taika he signed me. Grab the camera. And he goes on movie time to make a movie because now he knows that's my job and that's my work. Now he's respect out of my sons way he's about to make a move your a funny back in the day when we doing the skits like we would want him to be about the role we have the fuck of got white setup not not just the smoke digger said actual cavern and he would give to folks about it. I'm not talking. He starts cooking kerry. We're working with the dad. Plenty i know. Isn't he making soup ones or something we're watching. Dvd's like anything. Can you start hearing any noise. All right cool. I wasn't talking in the loud soap opera and my dad. The can't you can't be watching. Tv kitchen my god in that conversation of like general generally speaking with megyn parents that kind of have that traditional understanding we feel like. There's a more like this. Ethnic asian group has a more traditional parent perspective versus like. I think it's not so much culture. But okay when you think about asian immigrants right i was. I was questioning this for a long time. Because i'm like. Why was my family. Different from bart's or eleven jogos in this mode by the way you could see his shoulders back chest. A little bit plop. His feet are on the ground centered. No accidents hand doesn't like topic. Cook starts like putting his hair and pony. I was gonna do that right now too. But i forgot band but anyways think about the population that's here and when you hear the most it's from war refugees it's from people that didn't wanna leave asia but they have to be here because they were. They needed a second chance. So they're all in survival mode so when you're in survival mode right everything else is like. Why are you going to do art. Why are you gonna do all your like. This is fucking stupid. Make money so their mentality is if you spoke to like upper-class asian family that's old money they've been generation lee rich. I highly doubt that they disrespect the arts like the poor population does because they know that there's famous painters there. They know there's classical musicians. They know all that or like now. They have the arts exactly and they understand business. They're like so if your if your kid is going to become an entrepreneur there bill this or whatever their way more educated. But what you're talking to when you say quote unquote parents talking to poor of people who came here uneducated. They don't understand the world as much because their scope is like you said from your parents. They only know the the dry cleaner they. That's all they know but if you spoke to a family that may be two time in college and they do. They develop skills in the arts and then they they like that. They're a patron of the arts. That's a whole different story. So i think that's why i'm like. Oh shit so isn't an asian thing or is it a class thing but it's like the majority i guess of of most of the asian that come here they had when they share stories. It's a very similar story. Because i'd be most people do come here looking for a better life and looking for a second chance. But there's also like a lot of like rich asians that also i think are forced to become doctors or lawyers or whatever. Yeah keep it on track with the white collar jobs or whatever. There's that problem. What do you think about like indians like indian culture because a lot of them are like super poor but they still are very the same kind of the same kind of route of the doctor. I think i said generational money and a patron of the arts in the family. Don't have this concept of you have to be like that's not real wealth. Real wealth is your trust fund. You don't have to ever worry about money again. But they do care about prestige so they might not be okay with you. Being a dj. But maybe if you become a musician the or another way but a zap. Was this a lot of wealthy like taiwanese. Abc's right if you're not doing so hot in the states or whatever but the kids want to be a artist or musician or popstar. This is a common thing that i heard from my time. When he's friends is that they just go to taiwan they become someone famous or whatever. So i'm like. Is it an asian thing. Or is it more classing. New money to me is still not the upper echelon. You're talking about the one percent that there's a one percent there that doesn't care about meeting to be a doctor or a lawyer or just making means like from a traditional as the passive income rather like you're working eighty hours as a doctor to get six figures with even the taiwanese example so i knew a bunch of those kids too and i have friends in taiwan that are also on the pop star level. A lot of them when they come here. They're still trying to go into med school. And if they can't make a med school big go back so one of the most famous ones is. Name's leeann wayne. All of his parents all of his brothers and sisters are all doctors still so even though they're old money over there. I think just certain professions hold such a high level of prestige. That when they come here they want to be the american version of that because they know how i guess being a doctor is over there so imagine being an american doctor and they come here and that's still what they pursue and he can't do that then. I guess i'll be the jason derulo taiwan. Maybe it is different kinds of asians than because. Here's the thing like i don't know if other asian countries because i can only speak about. Japan are into classical music the way that they are so like in japan though have a lot of shows and all that i'm pretty sure they might in china as well but like there's a lot of patronage is to the arts and there's a lot of craftsmen who are highly revered directors filmmakers. And all that stuff. So i don't maybe you're right. Maybe it's like if you're vietnamese. You're more like likely to be pushed to go into the medical field. Because it's first generation wealth speaking on for like china. I feel like the mao era too had a lot to do with how i think the current chinese population views. I think You know wealth and jobs and job security right because like i feel like the mao era did away with a lot of the arts and did away with a lot of the philosophy and culture and so there is the same thing because i look at it like jeb japanese like like the way they live and the way there's a lot of respect in the craftmanship and how they do things restaurants conduct themselves whereas china's like almost the exact opposite. So you're right. There is a difference there. Yes it's not so much money practical driven there is a soul to things that you take pride in out there so then that's why i'm like okay. I do hear that. They want kids to be a certain thing but they don't have such limited choices compared to like my vietnamese friends. My vietnamese friends who was always doctor lawyer engineer whereas like japanese was like you better kill it. What you're doing but if they don't understand like dad's maybe that might not be cool but they'll understand like like maybe classical music and then they'll be like okay my son's a great pianist and you know he worked. He does concerts. But even in that sense. I feel like maybe because i've highbury analyze this right but like when you can't go something like Being classical musician just historically those maybe more of an random concept of an understanding that like there's an economic pathway in that its prestigious end exactly whereas with something that you maybe don't understand as much like an industry like dance in america. You know what. I'm saying. It's like how you gonna make. Money is the superseding thought versus do love it. So that's what i mean by survival right. The goal in these asian parents always survival high going to make money whereas like when europe privileged group. You don't think how you're going to make money for sure which. I didn't hear that all the time from my japanese friends and their families and all that stuff too or as they want the prestige or they want the kids to kill it in something. But it's like let's say if a kid is like. Oh i'm going to be a philosopher because you better go to fucking harvard then or like you know you better do it well. So then. Maybe the the expectation is still there but then the limited choices are removed. 'cause i had a friend she wanted to. She's vietnamese and she wanted to be ocean. Offer and her parents was like bach. Know why are you going to do that. She got into a really good school. But she's like you're going to be a pharmacist. And i heard that that was a really common thing. Where if a pair. It doesn't understand outside of what exists in the medical field in some asian groups. It's just the medical field. That's the only thing you're allowed to do. And i'm like damn that's crazy and i guess that's why i came up with the with the thought of oh during survival mode because they're only thinking about a high paid job because their parents are like i don't want you to struggle like me. I mean you grow completely different though really open minded the hardcore parents where you can't like do anything you can explore like they want. They put me into art classes. They put me into all sorts of music classes and sports and stuff like that and they still relate to the asia. have those stories. I mean my parents and anti wear similar. You still relate when you hear that. I relate because i had a friend who is actually white. Who had a really strict parents hardcore hardcore christian family and was very light kind of old fashioned sense that there's only one way to the top and it's like through honesty honest work and things like that and nothing nothing frivolous frivolous things in in his. Like you know view of life. Did you have to be a doctor too yeah. I think i'd in the medical industry and his brother was on his way to go into medical school. Whenever my friend was like you know what. I can't deal with the pressure. His dad was pretty like my dad would always be like 'cause i complained to my daylight. Ease up on like your the way you talk to people. It's like you very off putting your very strong. And he was like what about what about adams dak and he's like on my find your dad but yeah so i learned a lot of that kind of shit from a non asian family. But then once. I do talk to you guys. And i'm like i can relate because i am aware but i definitely didn't have that granted i don't think it's like a lack of understanding knowledge or like appreciation for like the culture but like in survival mode and you can't afford you know what i mean. Certain things like that. It's like not even a conversation. That like if i i remember wanting to do like nj be as a kid at the boys and girls club down the street. It was on basketball junior basketball. Something your basketball anyway. And yeah and i. I just wanted to play basketball. You're kidding all all the boys near class or a part of the nj be after school program but it just costs money because x amount of money so it was never allowed taekwondo right. I did because i wanted to do kung fu my cousin but kung fu cost more so everything was an economic decision down. The street was cheaper. That's their decisions for. You is how you going gonna make money because they're faced with survival every day and it makes sense that both your parents are this way because you said they had a hard life at a laundromat in in your dead. Buchan swam running away from china and he was in poverty. So it makes sense right. That's kind of my theory. And i think it's it's pretty right because the parents that grew up with privilege and let's say middle class. They went to college like your parents were a little bit more privileged so they have this freedom to go. Yeah you guys could do whatever you want. My parents are actually. What's the proper word crazy. You can't stay is our because they're actually switched. It still doesn't doing their ridiculous So switched because say that word ridiculous righteous okay because my mom is college educated and she comes from a my grandpa who is also college educated. So there's like they're not on survival mode but she had the survival auch type of mindset. That i had to become a doctor. My dad was a refugee who had to eat his own cat and he didn't go to run cat food. Because that's how poor they were own cat. My dad was one when he was like. I don't care what you do after you go to college. But we're in america and so i want you to go to american school and then the american thing to do is make your own choices after you go to school and pick what you want to do. So it was just kind of like it was it was like switch. The main pressure was from my mom to have to become a doctor. My dad did want me to go to graduate school or some sort. Because i think that's what he understood of how you really secure success. So he didn't care. Philip lawyer or whatever but that's brady understood but at least there was more choices for my dad and my mom you think. Cross education system creates a crippling affecting someone's mind where like you're so used to being told what to do from grade to grade to grade to get to college and there's so much structure built into the education system by the time you get out you're just looking for that same structure for something to tell you what to do. What's my schedule like should go to see. What should i eat. What job should i get right whereas like some that didn't really go follow. The education system is in college educated. Might be a little more like self inspired to kinda of make. My own rules could be. Yeah i take it back. I don't know about background anymore. I just think one is stubborn. And one is more flexible. So it's not asian thing and it's just a lot of stubborn fuckers that don't want to be flexible.
The Congolese Doctor Who Discovered Ebola
"At the beginning of an epidemic, it's essential to discover the source of the disease. For scientists who do that work, it's extremely challenging and without risk to their own health. But the scientists who played an essential role in discovering bulla way back in nineteen, seventy six doesn't always get the credit he deserves in today's episode. We explore the history of a bowl and the consequences of scientific exploitation. It's part of our week of episodes here on the show celebrating and recognizing the contributions of black scientists enjoy. You're listening to shortwave. From NPR. Safai here with none other than NPR East Africa correspondent Ater, Peralta Hey there ater. Hey, Mattie, thank you so much for talking to us all the way from Kenya. I know there's like an eight hour time difference. I am thrilled. But I want to open with a quick question. Who discovered Ebola and do not Google it. First of all. How dare you asked me a question? I should definitely know the answer to, and don't and yeah I already, Google Bet. Came up was. A Belgian microbiologist, but I think you're about to tell me. There's more to this there. Absolutely, there always is right so. Cheated. What you probably saw is a bunch of white westerners like. Dr John Jack. Yembeh does not yeah. He was not one of the people that came up. Yes, so, he's Congolese doctor and today he's doing really important work heading up the response to the current Ebola outbreak in Congo, but back in nineteen, seventy six, we embed. First doctor to. COLLECT ANY BOLA sample. His crucial role in discovering Bolla is often just a footnote, a lot of the history of people. Has Been Written? Without your name. Yes but. You know this Yes it. Did Not quite. Today on the show correcting the record on a Bola, the story of Dr, John Jack Mugabe and what he's doing now to ensure African scientists are part of writing it's. To some in the medical community, it's a controversial move. Okay Ater, so we're talking about a Congolese Dr John, Shaq. And his role in discovering a bola. When do we begin? So when I sat down with him at his office in Kinshasa. He said we should start in. Hundred seventy three. We had just gotten his PhD microbiology at the Riga Institute in Belgium, and he could have stayed in Europe, but he decided to come back to Congo, but when I arrive via. The condition of work were not I had no lab have no. Mice for experimentation, so it was very difficult to work here. Yeah, it's tough to do lab work without a lab, you know. Without a library to instead he took a job as a field epidemiologist and just a couple of years later in Nineteen seventy-six. was sent from Kinshasa the capital of Congo to the village of Yambuku to investigate a mysterious outbreak. it's the first recorded outbreak of Ebola, but no one knew that at the time they thought maybe it was typhoid or yellow fever, and he goes to this local hospital, and he says he finds it completely empty. Why was nobody there? Local residents thought the hospital was the source of the infection and people had died there. But in the morning when they heard Giambi was sent from the capital, the thought he had medicine till they started to come back to the hospital, and we started seeing patients. So so, what's he seeing? When the patients come in, he was seeing. People who were very weak fever? They had headaches I started to to make the physical time. But at that time will have no gloves. And, of course he had to draw blood, but when I removed. They're the sit inch. Both continue to spread out. What I am to see these phenomenal. And also my fingers or with a bow. Wow. Yeah, so he says he he would wash his hands a lot, but really he says it was just luck that he didn't catchable. Yeah, definitely I mean. That's amazing that he's in there and there's no gloves and there's patients and they don't really know what's going on, and he was able to not get it in at this point. We MP he was startled. But then three nurses died that night and a Belgian nun who was working in the village, also got sick with fever. All the nuns had been vaccinated against typhoid and yellow fever. So at this point me MBA was like. Oh, it's probably not those things. Yeah! I mean in the severity to the deaths with this outbreak. He started to realize that this was something different, so he. He convinced one none took back to Kinshasa with him. So what happens next? She died at a hospital a couple of days later, but he took blood samples, and he sent them to Belgium for testing and the guy on the other end that was Peter Piot. Who at the time was with the Institute for Tropical Medicine in Belgium, the guy who turned up from Google search. Yeah. That's right, and so he and other scientists start working to identify the culprit. The CDC in the US gets involved and the realize. This is a new virus that caused hemorragic. Call it Ebola. They name it after a river by the village where it was discovered. So, what you saw out in the field, the blood samples guide all of this plays a crucial role in the history of right. It was huge, but it's PR who gets the bulk of the credit for discovering all up and you can tell this bothers John Jock membe. If you don't recognize the work done in the field, I, it is not correct. it is a team. You know it is a team. Pr Actually wrote a memoir no time to lose and he does mention. But just in passing as a bright scientist, whose constantly pestering him for more resources. Has talked about this well. Peter Pyatt, facetime video, so I got on the phone. He's now the director of the prestigious London, School of Hygiene and tropical medicine and I asked him if he felt at all responsible for writing. Out of his history of Ebola I think that's a comment, but my book less not an attempt to write than that's history of Boll and sold more. My personal experience is more biographies that sense. Was this kind of like an awkward conversation to have ater. Yeah I mean especially because he's Belgian and Belgium was the colonial power in Congo. Ultimately, he looks at it with a little bit of distant. That at the time African scientists they were simply excluded and white scientists parachuted in they took samples, wrote papers that were published in the West and they took all the credit he so he actually said he did. In that actually surprised me and I think. Part of the reason. I feel that he so comfortable. Talking about this is because he's in an academic setting. I think in universities across the world. Students are talking about privilege, so he seems like he is very comfortable having this conversation right now. I mean there's there's something very weird kind of about that coming from him right as a person who has admitted to taking part in exploitative science, absolutely and one of the good things is that he says that things are changing. We mbappe for example has received several international awards just recently for pioneering. The first effective treatment for Ebola reflects our stinky you. Say the politicians in global health in science, General. So okay. I want to ask you about the treatment in a minute, but to put it very bluntly. Have there actually been any concrete steps to try to change this power dynamic in the global health field? Because this is certainly not one of you know two stories. This is one of many many stories. There is I mean look. NBA has made a decision that many thought unthinkable leaving just a few years ago, he decided that all of the blood samples collected during this most recent Ebola. Epidemic will stay in Congo, so if anyone wants to study this outbreak, they will have to come to his institute. I bet that has ruffled some feathers though. I have I've heard from some American scientists. Who have privately expressed frustrations in the are really the ones who have led the way in studying Ebola, but peanut understands that decision when you think about how African scientists have been historically treated, and he says that Western scientists should just get over it. We have to wake up key things one. The world is changing too much endless Nah it's so weird to hear him say a matter of fairness, ater matter of fairness. Okay, so before we move on, tell me about the treatment that Mugabe worked on. So this is the thing that makes him smile right. We embiid calls it the most important achievement of his life, and it goes back to one thousand, nine, hundred, five during another equal outbreak in Congo. Eighty one percent of people infected with Ebola in this village were dying, and he wondered if antibodies developed bipolar survivors could be siphoned from their blood and used to treat new cases, so he gave sick patients transfusions of blood from a bowl of survivors. Too He injected Ebola patients with the blood of survivors. It vision. And seven survive, he says the medical establishment brought him off because he didn't have a control group. That's what they told him. But if this idea was accepted by scientists. We see a lot of life. Okay I mean to be fair. That is a really small group with no control among some other stuff. But on the other hand, it doesn't mean that he was wrong. You know that it should be totally dismissed, and maybe if more scientists looked into, it collaborated with him, maybe tried to replicate that data in some way, they could have learned something with him right because we now know that he was in fact correct about the antibodies. Yeah, I mean that's right in the context is important because I think what really eat set him. Is that maybe lots and lots of people could have been saved during the West. West Africa outbreak, which happened from two thousand, thirteen to two, thousand sixteen, and look just this year that science became the foundation of what is now proven to be the first effective treatment against the Bulla that is saving seventy percent of the people who are treated with amazing. Is He getting credit for that? At this point, he is yeah, absolutely okay, so how does look back on all of this week? What's what's his view on this is so he's he seventy seven, so he's obviously thinking about his legacy. One of the things that he told me is that he's always dreamed that big science could come out of Congo, and partly because of him, that's more likely happen. He got a commitment from Japan to build a state of the art research facility in Kinshasa and in the lab, just a few feet from his office where we talked US scientists were using advanced machines to sequence DNA of the Bulla samples that have to stay here in Congo Okay so moon bay, doctor and scientists who started in the Congo with no lab has a lab and is soon getting an even better one to do his work. Yeah, exactly, yeah, now I have my share. In. So I have my I have. A good subculture will bring joy. But he also has vice rate with micro biologist without Nice, I, asked myself that every day. And, so you know what he says, his biggest legacy won't be that. He helped to discovery or cure for it. It'll be if another young Congolese. Scientist finds himself with an interesting blood sample. He'll be able to investigate it right there in Congo. Meter thank you for this. Thank you many. Today's episode was produced by Ramirez and edited by Viet Lay. Our Engineering Queen Today was attache branch. Thanks, Tasha. You've been listening to shortwave from NPR. We'll see you tomorrow. Whenever you face a choice. It helps to think like an economist and this week on planet money. Summer School will start off our course economics with ink workout for your brain. How did decide what something? Costs. Money from NPR.
The Congolese Doctor Who Discovered Ebola
"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. Manny Safai here with none other than NPR east. Africa correspondent eight Peralta to. Hey there ater. Hey mattie thank you so much for talking to us all the way from Kenya. I know there's like an eight hour time difference. I am thrilled but I want to open with a quick question who discovered Ebola and Google. It first of all. How dare you asked me a a question? I should definitely know the answer to and don't and yeah I already. Google bet came up was a Belgian. Microbiologist I but I think you're about to tell me there's more to the story there absolutely there always is right so I mean you cheated. Yeah what you probably saw is a bunch of White Westerners like Dr John Jack. Mugambi does not. Yeah he was not one of the people that came up yes so he's Congolese doctor and today he's doing really important work heading up the response to the current Ebola outbreak in Congo. But back in nineteen seventy six. We we emberg he was the first doctor to collect any bola sample. His crucial role in discovering Bolla is often just a footnote. A lot of history has been written without your name. Yes but you on this Yes it is it not correct did not quite so today on the show correcting the record on a bola the story of Dr John Jock Mugabe and what he's doing now to ensure African scientists are part of writing its future to some in the medical community. It's a controversial move. Okay ater so we're talking talking about a Congolese Dr Jacques in his role in discovering Abullah. When do we begin? So when I sat down with him at his office in Kinshasa south he said we should start in nineteen seventy three. We had just gotten his PhD in microbiology at the Institute in Belgium and and he could have stayed in Europe but he decided to come back to Congo. But when I arrive here The condition of work were not I. I had no lab. I have no mice for experimentation so it was very difficult to work here. Yeah it's tough to do lab work without a lab you now. He said without a library to instead he took a job as a field epidemiologist and just a couple of years later in Nineteen nineteen seventy six we sent from Kinshasa the capital of Congo to the village of Yambuku to investigate a mysterious outbreak It's the first recorded outbreak of Ebola. But no one knew that at the time they thought maybe it was typhoid or yellow fever and he goes to this local hospital but he says he finds it completely empty was nobody there. Local residents thought the hospital was the source of the infection and and people had died there but in the morning when they heard was sent from capitol. They thought he had medicine till they started to come back to the hospital and we started seeing patients. So so what's he seeing. When the patients come in he was seeing people who were very weak with fever they had headaches? I started it to him to make the physical time but at that time. have no gloves you know gloves. And of course he had to draw blood but when I removed they're the city which Blood continued to spread out. It was the first time from two CDs momentum and also my fingers so with a bow. Wow Yeah so he says he he would wash his hands a lot but really really he says it was just luck that he didn't catchable. Yeah definitely I mean. That's amazing that he's in there and there's gloves and there's patients and they don't really know what's going on and he was able to not get it and at this point we MP. He was startled but then three nurses died that night and a Belgian nun who was working in the village also got sick with a fever all the nuns had been vaccinated against typhoid and yellow fever. So at this point I was like. Oh it's probably not those things. Thanks yeah I mean in the severity to the deaths with this outbreak. He started to realize that this was something different. So he convinced one none to go back to Kinshasa with him so what happens next. She died at a hospital a couple of days later but he took blood samples and he sent them to Belgium for testing and the guy on the other end. That was Peter. Piot who at the time was with the Institute for Tropical Medicine in Belgium. Aw The guy who turned up from Google Search. Yeah that's right. And so he and other scientists start working to identify the culprit the CDC in the US US gets involved and they realize this is a new virus that caused hemorragic fever. They call it Ebola. They name it after after a river by the village where it was discovered so what I saw out in the field. The blood sample seek guide. All of this plays. He's a crucial role in the history of Buller Right. It was huge but it's pr who gets the bulk of the credit for discovering all up and you can tell that this bothers John Jock membe. If you don't recognize the work done in the field is not correct It is a team you. The team actually wrote a memoir. No time to lose and he does mentioned but just in passing as a bright scientist whose constantly pestering him for more resources has talked about this. Well Peter Pyatt facetime Stein bill so I got on the phone. He's now the director of the prestigious London School of Hygiene and tropical medicine and I asked him if he felt at all responsible for writing yelm out of his history of Ebola. I think that's a fair comment. But my book Glenn Not an attempt to write than that's history of colon some bit more. My personal experience is more biography. That sense was this kind of like an awkward conversation to have ater. Yeah I mean. Especially because he's Belgian and Belgium was the colonial power our in Congo ultimately. You know he looks at it with a little bit of distant. He says that at the time African scientists they were simply excluded -cluded in white scientists parachuted in. They took samples wrote papers that were published in the West and they took all the credit he so he actually said and he did and I mean in that actually surprised me and I think part of the reason I feel that he so comfortable talking about this is because he's he's in an academic setting I think in universities across the world students are talking about privilege so he seems like like he is very comfortable having this conversation right now I mean. There's there's something very weird kind of about that coming from him. Right as a person who has admitted to taking taking part in exploitative science absolutely one of the good things is that he says that things are changing we the NBA for example has received several international awards just recently for pioneering. The first effective treatment for Ebola reflects are extinct museum the m the politicians in global health in science in general. So okay I want to ask you about the treatment in a minute but to put. Yeah very bluntly have there actually been any concrete steps to try to change this power dynamic in the global health field because this is certainly not one one of you know two stories. This is one of many many stories there is I mean. Look William Baer has made a decision that many thought unthinkable thinkable even just a few years ago. He decided that all of the blood samples collected turing this. Most recent Ebola epidemic will stay in Congo. So if anyone anyone wants to study this outbreak they will have to come to his institute. I bet that has ruffled some feathers. Though I have I've heard from some some American scientists who have privately expressed frustrations and the are really the ones who have led the way in studying Ebola but PR understands. Understands the decision when you think about how African scientists have been historically treated and he says that Western scientists should just get Over it we have to wake up to one. The world is changing too much endless. Nah It's so weird to hear him say a matter of fairness ater matter furnace okay so before we move on and tell me about the treatment that Mugabe worked on so this is the thing that makes him smile. Rate William big calls it the the most important achievements of his life and it goes back to one thousand nine hundred five during another equal outbreak in Congo. Eighty one percent of people infected with Bolla in this village were dying and he wondered if antibodies developed by Ebola survivors could be siphoned from their blood and used to treat new cases cases so he gave sick patients transfusions of blood from Ebola survivors so he inject Pity bullet patients with the blood of survivors. It Bishop and seven survive. He says the medical establishment brought him off because he didn't have a control group. That's what they told him. But if this idea was accepted by scientists we save a lot of life. Okay I mean to to be fair. That is a really small group with no control among some other stuff but on the other hand. It doesn't mean that he was wrong. You know that it should be totally dismissed and maybe if more scientists looked into it collaborated with him. Maybe tried to replicate that data in some way they could have learned something with with him right because we now know that he was in fact correct about the antibodies. Yeah I mean that's right and in the context is important because I think what really eats that him is that maybe lots and lots of people could have been saved during the West Africa outbreak. Which happened from two thousand thirteen to two thousand sixteen and look just? Is this year. That science became the foundation of what is now proven to be the first effective treatment against Ebola. That is saving seventy percent percent of the people who are treated with it. Amazing is he getting credit for that. At this point he is. Yeah absolutely okay so how does look back on all of this week. What's what's what's his view on this? So he's he's seventy seven so he's obviously thinking about his legacy. One of the things that he told me is that he's always dreamed that big science could come out of Congo and partly because of him. That's more likely happen. He got a commitment from Japan to build build a state of the art research facility in Kinshasa and in the lab just a few feet from his office where we talked us. Scientists were using in advance machines to sequence DNA of the Bulla samples of that half to stay here in Congo. Okay so Mugabe doctor. And scientists who started in the Congo with no lab has a lab and is soon getting even better one to do his work. Yeah exactly now I have my here I am I in love so I have my. I have a good cultural bring joy but he also has vice rate with the micro biologist without mice myself that every day and so what he says is. His biggest legacy won't won't be that he helped to discovery or cure for it it'll be if another young Congolese scientists finds himself with an interesting blood sample. They'll be able to investigate it right there in Congo eater. Thank you for this. Thank you many in. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Ramirez and edited by Viet Lay. Our Engineering Queen. Today was Tasha branch thanks to Pasha. You've been listening to shortwave from N._P._R.. We'll see you tomorrow.
August Reflections & Corrections
"Hey Bible readers I'm barely Kabul and I'm your host for the Bible Recap. Welcome to our August reflections and corrections episode. Let's start with the reflections. We just finished our twenty ninth book of the Bible and we're currently working our way through to others. So let's get the thirty thousand foot view on where we are in the chronological timeline of the Bible's overall. Meta, narrative. The Bible is one unified story way back in Genesis God set out to build a relationship with one particular family. But things go terribly wrong when they fracture the relationship through sin but they're send doesn't surprise God. He already had a plan in place to restore this relationship even before it was broken and he continues working out that plan immediately undeterred and unhindered by their rebellion. He sets apart of man named Abraham to be the patriarch of the family. God tells the Israelites. They're a bunch of sinners just like all of us God blesses them despite their sin but sin still has its consequences. One of the long story lines of consequences of the four hundred years they spent enslaved in Egypt. God. Sends a man they Moses to demonstrate his power to the Egyptian ruler who reluctantly agrees to let the Israelite slaves go they flee to the desert led by God and his servant Moses and then little by little God gives these people the basic rules of how to have a stable society there uncivilized. Ungrateful people who have only just met God and Moses and they're not keen on obeying. Either of them, but in the midst of their sin and stubbornness, God knows that what their hearts need is him. So he sets up camp among them in the desert more than anything. He wants them to remember who is to them the God who rescued them out of slavery, but they keep forgetting and every time they forget the either get fearful and disobey or they get prideful in disobey. Forty years after he rescues them from Egypt, God raises up a new leader Joshua to lead them into the Promised Land and commands into a radical, their enemies who live there the Canaanites, but this new life of luxury and ease makes them forget God. So they never fully conquer the land. Completely. There are still pockets of Canaanites all around. God has worn them repeatedly that if they don't drive out the Canaanites, they'll become a snare and lead them away into apostasy and that's exactly what happens. God raises up military leaders or judges to drive out the enemies who are leading the mystery. But this doesn't deal with the problem of their hearts leading the mystery the Israelites do whatever they want, which results in near anarchy at times and things grow continually worse in the promised. Land. Despite this, there are pockets of faithfulness among the Israelites and even among foreigners whose hearts turned toward you alway people like Rahab and ruth. Pagans who turned to follow God and his people and abandoned their lifestyles that made it with cultural norms. But that are actually unrighteous. God has been telling us all along. He's going to build his people from among every nation and this is evidence of that. Next God raises a prophet named Samuel to lead the people but what they really want what all the other nations have a King God tells Samuel to give the people what they want, but it's not going to go well for them. Their first king is Saul a fearful man who makes rash decisions without consulting God. Then shepherd named David. Is positioned as Israel's second king. He's a man after God's own heart but he still deeply flawed it makes a few wicked decisions that marked for life but they don't mark him for eternity. God shows him astonishing amounts of mercy and grace. David is succeeded on the throne by his son Solomon the wisest man who ever lived, but he has a bit of a problem with womanizing and worshiping other Gods. y'All way is generous to him nonetheless and gives him the distinguished assignment building. Israel's first temple the place where God came to dwell among the people in the midst of the Promised Land. After Solomon Dies his son Ray Hbo we call him Ray, takes over the throne but King Ray is harsh toward the people in lots of them don't WanNa follow him, and that's how the nation state of Israel is divided into two separate kingdoms. The southern Kingdom of Judah ruled biking Ray, and the northern Kingdom of Israel ruled by jared boom we call him jerry. Because God had promised to continue the line of kings through the tribe of Judah, he always seems to be on their side especially, but he takes good care of the northern Kingdom of Israel as well. The northern kingdom has a string of exclusively bad kings but God still since the Prophet Elijah to help set things straight. Elijah has a pretty lonely live of speaking hard truths to the kings and the people, but he has a rich intimacy with God that sustains him nonetheless. Over the three hundred and fifty ish years of the divided Kingdom Dodson several prophets to warn both northern Israel and southern. Judah about what's going to happen both of them will be overcome by other nations I the Assyrians defeat northern Israel and take them into captivity southern Judas still survives under mostly bad kings with the exception of Kinshasa who brings lots of reforms you renovate the temple prioritizes God's word and tears down the places of idol worship. But the four kings after him turn away from Ya and eventually fall under siege by the Babylonians just like God's prophets have been saying all along when Jerusalem eventually falls to Babylon some people try to stay behind are killed while others are carried off into exile but God promises them that there's a timeline on this exile. He'll bring them back to the land in seventy years not only that, but he will punish the enemies who are oppressing them. They will be judged for their sins to God's prophets keep reminding his people that his character has remained the same through all the generations through all their sins through all their wanderings and that he's always aiming to bring his people back to himself. and. He keeps giving US glimpses of the coming Messiah, The Servant King, who will I come and die, and then return to establish an eternal kingdom of peace on earth. Okay. That's all for the reflections part of this episode and thank God. I am so grateful that there were no correction so far to report in August. So that's all for this episode from Day One until now, I hope you're seeing more and more that he's swear the joy is. The Bible recap is brought to you by e-group discipleship and Bible study groups that meet in homes and churches around the world each week for more information on deep visit my group Dot. Org.
New emergency Ebola response chief in DR Congo promises more listening, to end frequent interruptions in fightback
"This is Matt wells at UN news. The newly appointed UN Ebola response chief in the Democratic Republic of the Congo DRC has promised to listen more to the fears and concerns of local people in a bid to end frequent interruptions, hampering the fight against the deadly virus response coordinator, David Gresley, who's also deputy, head of u n stabilization mission in the DRC Manisco told you a news that violence by numerous armed groups protests and demonstrations together with political mistrust had adversely affected the government and World Health Organization, led response, one thousand two hundred eighty died in the country's worst ever outbreak. Mr. Gresley is heading to the epicenter pretend bow to work closely with partners and local leaders to finally contain the outbreak. He spoke to you and uses Christina Silveira, it's a very serious situation on the ground were quite worried about the situation is continued for now. Ten months in terms of the response. But the democ has been circulating for over a year now. And one of the key problems that we've seen on the ground is that there have been frequent interruptions in the response, which gives a virus a chance to multiply and usually tend to days to two weeks later. We see a sharp increase after these interruptions, due to sometimes protests, sometimes attacks, physical attacks and demonstrations, override things that have disrupted the the response, and it's important to understand why the, the attacks are happening. Why protests are happening at cetera so that we can find a way to sustain a response in a way that it's not interrupted. And so that we can bring it to, to, to close. The virus doesn't care. We cannot just use a technical approach to the response to be eight show, a ministry of health in particular have the skills for that. They have the means on the ground for that. But it's not enough by itself. And you need a larger response, they deals with the issues that I've described of security, and resistance. If you're going to finally put an end to this epidemic. So B U N has announced that it's strengthening its operations and its strategy. You've been appointed coordinator for the urgent response against Bola. What are the changes that are going to be made on the ground? Is it just a merely of positions? No, that's not the intent at all the, the, the intent is to strengthen the broader support the technical response led by the ministry of health supported by WHO will certainly continue. But what will be put in place is a reinforced structure that will be looking at the security issues, the resistance issues more closely, and that will require a much closer work with a local population. He'll communities traditional leaders to understand where their concerns are why there might be resistance and build the confidence of the community and the support most importantly, so that we can create an environment allows the responders to do their job. And to bring this thing to an end. It's also a question of, of making sure that the people who may have been in contact with victims of, of Ebola are dente, fide and monitored in terms of their own health, and if they become ill that they can receive treatment that's, that's the key to actually breaking the transmission of Ebola. But when that is disrupted, and are those the and that tracking is lost, then the virus will continue to circulate we're fortunate that. It has not gone outside of the immediate area. It's not even covering the whole province. And I think there we have to think the very good efforts for vaccination has gone on that has helped contain it amongst some of the changes, you will be moving the decision making center, the operation center to Timbo the current epicenter, we will be moving the operational decision making to the center of the. Can timbo? I will go there myself, we will build a team around that to reinforce the team that are already there. There are senior UN and, and, and, and ministry of health personnel to ground already. I think we have to recognize that. So this is a compliment to what's already there, but was important is that we have rapid decision making on the ground that's not held up by bureaucracies of various organizations. And that's why the decision was taken to put senior leisurely ground who can take those decisions based upon what they see on a day-to-day basis strategic guidance will stay in concerto regional operations will be based in Goma that does not change, but the day to day response, and the, the adapting to each circumstances, that arise can only be done locally. What are you expecting these changes to mean on the ground concrete concretely for the population for the health workers? And for the attackers, obviously, we wanted to bring the Potomac to close as quickly as possible. But in order to do that. I think what the local community should expect is a much closer engagement on our part with them to understand their fears their expectations to provide clear information about how the epidemic is how it spreads. And how it can be treated and contained these are all extremely important that, that work be accelerated on the ground to, to build that confidence lifting. It'd be listening to the population. That's it. That is exactly it you have to listen to the population. They have to tell us what they're thinking. That's what that engagement means. You don't learn much by talking. You'll learn by by listening. So I think that's extremely important. I think people have been frustrated by the lack of, of being listened to, and, and it's important to overcome that. So that's extremely important. Do you have an idea of what is going on? Why there is so much mistrust, the situation. There is a bit complex of there's been conflict going on. For over twenty years. It's an area of political opposition, historically to, to the government in Incan Shasha. So there's a bit of a version of people coming in from the outside. Secondly, you, you when you see a situation where you have a massive response for one, one issue in this case of Bulla where other issues have been neglected for twenty years, people, ask questions, it's just a natural human thing. And that's some of the things that need to be talked through, and there may be -tunities to address other issues while addressing the ability issue talking about the issue of tax when there's a strong community acceptance and, and, and actual desire for something that, too can help on the security side. He started getting it from. Nation that tells you what, what may or may not happen, and how you may want to operate when that positive relationship is established. And as you as you rightly said earlier, you do that by listening to what people are thinking and feeling then you have the basis to move forward and constructive way. So we need to do this, it takes its own time to do this. We don't have a lot of times we have to find a way to structure that in, in an effective way and have an open door policy that allows that information and that exchange to take place as frequently as required for this to be resolved. You mentioned demonstrations before and political climate, which is usually contentious, or seize Kinshasa as other this area wasn't allowed to participate in the recent elections. Is that that is well they were able to, but only after the three months too late and. And that was a problem because when the announcement was made for the delay in the election in, in, in this in the territories around Binion boot Timbo, it was the reason cited by the, the electoral commission was the -able outbreak, which created a perception that bring me this as a political issue, and not a health issue those relations have now taken place. So that's less of an issue today. But that's only happened at the end of March. So that time period between did create that that perception, and it was unfortunate because I think it contributed to some of the delays and interruptions described.
Thursday, May 27, 2021 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily
"Welcome to the monitor daily. Podcast thursday may twenty seven. Thanks joining us. I'm peter greer reading for laura elston and i'm jessica mendoza this morning at the late spring mix of moisture and sunlight which made lawrence push a little three miles farther than he'd run much so later reading a clip about china's ultra marathon disaster. This past weekend. He felt a certain twinge. Twenty-one ultramarathons die after being exposed to rain hail and high winds whenever athletes. Dining extreme sports many wonder why they do it in the first place. When researchers in poland queried more than fifteen hundred runners in two thousand eighteen they found many motivations self-esteem competition health weight loss concerns and so forth but the ultra marathoners were different talking about qualitative goals such as finding a life meaning in connecting with running friends saturdays toll could have been worse. According to news reports except for the presence of zouk kevin who is tending sheep and took refuge case. That's when he spotted one of the distressed inside massaging his feet and hands in lighting. A fire drives close for more runners. Straggled in mr shoe ventured out and brought back yet another runner. That may be the most important question. Why did those runners stop exhaustion. Tom sense what caused them to stop pursuing the extreme and seek shelter and warmth fire with a shepherd in some of lawrence recent runs. He's walked for stretches something that he thinks would have seen shameful a couple of years ago as he starts his fifth decade of adult running. He realizes he runs not for the distance or even the running itself but for the sense of movement and the peace of the trees and the birds in the inspiration. That comes now. Today's stores our first story. China's government bases its legitimacy on bread and butter issues but economic growth has come at the cost of massive debt trying to tamp it could test. The party's willingness to push an unpopular policy in china. Homeownership carries far more meaning than a roof over one's head for millions of single men who today greatly outnumber single women. It's a near requirement for marriage. Whole families often scraped together resources to give their sons a leg up in courtship by securing an apartment or house. Mr zang a retired homeowner who asked to his hold his first name for privacy says in most of china it would be a huge loss of face for a man to move into his wife's home. That's only one reason that china's latest push to impose the first nationwide property taxes on homeowners is politically touchy yet. Beijing is gingerly advancing the plan to confront its debt crisis after decades of debt fueled growth state media calls the problem. A gray rhino. It's huge and everyone sees it coming. The issue test communist party's willingness to push forward a controversial policy knowing it could stir unrest. Mr zang says he can't conceive of the government imposing such attacks. The government can't do that he says because it would run counter to the party's consideration of people's basic needs. He adds. it's not possible that they will force this on people. This story was reported by an scott tyson for the monitor the human toll from israel's retaliatory air strikes in gaza his palpable on the ground. Many residents worry that it won't be the last war their territory a week after israel and hamas agreed to a ceasefire palestinians in gaza are still digging through the rubble. The scale of destruction from israeli airstrikes is staggering. Four hundred and fifty buildings destroyed and six hospitals demolished. So too is the human toll of death suffering and displacement families are now reuniting after dividing their children among friends and relatives so that should their home be hit by a missile. At least one of their children would survive. It's a familiar dilemma. Israel previously waged wars against him us the militant organization that runs gaza in two thousand nine. Twenty twelve and twenty fourteen. In addition to the destruction of homes the war pummel gaza's public infrastructure. The united nations is due to seek international donations for rebuilding. But there's also wariness of another conflict. Some gazans are joining volunteer groups to help shift debris from the streets. Guida abu samra is a university student to join an apolitical. Youth led campaign. She says removing the rubble is a way to challenge the reality of eleven days of shelling. She wants to show the world that gaza has can stand up again. This story was reported by israel in gaza city and taylor luck in amman jordan for the monitor parents have long been a coveted political demographic but the upheaval of the past year has turned many into passionate local activists who say they will keep advocating long after the pandemic subsides after an academic year like no other school boards across the country have become a lightning rod for political debate as zoom classes dragged on and with many public schools even now not fully open heated battles have erupted over how to balance the safety of teachers and students against other concerns such as learning loss and mental health increasingly. Intense debates have also opened up over educational content particularly the anti-racist curricula that many schools implemented in the wake of last summer's black lives matter protests. Some conservative states are banning. The teaching of critical race theory others like virginia are reevaluating gifted and talented programs and accelerated math tracks. History suggests the political impact could extend well beyond school boards grassroots activism to broader and more permanent movements. This is particularly true when driven by strong emotion as in the case of parents who feel that children are being negatively impacted. David campbell is an expert on civic engagement at notre dame university. He says this is not the first time we've seen issues around public. Schools be flashpoints for controversy. You can think of school board politics as the gateway drug to greater involvement across the board. This story was reported by story. Hinckley in falls church virginia for the monitor reports of assault of made many women wary of ride hailing companies. Women only services may be part of the answer. It's hard to miss uber's cabs in kinshasa the capital of the democratic republic of congo. The hot pink cabs swoosh up and down the busy streets and the women behind the wheel where matching pink and grey uniforms. This kinshasa's i ride hailing service. And it's by women for women in africa as is true around the world reports of harassment or assault have left many women wary of ride hailing apps. Many companies are promising more stringent regulations. But some are pioneering women first options all female driver fleets for example or services that allow female writers to select female drivers. You've is for. Example is the brainchild of entrepreneur. Patricia insulin thima. Who says part of her vision is empowering women. Applying for a job with the company was not an easy decision. says recent graduate. Bruce insen dula. Being a female driver is not the norm here but the salary and safety protocols convinced her she says when customers find out. It's a woman behind the wheel. They feel confident and safe. This story was reported by shola wall in lagos nigeria for the monitor. Brexit was defined in part by ideologies of nationalism pride in independence but for others like the voice to harvester featured in this photo essay. It's the practical effects of leaving the european union. That are on their mind. You can find jonathan browning's photos and essay in today's issue now commentary from the monitor's aditorial board on tapping into arab youth aspirations. A monitor story on the aftermath p eleven day war between israel and hamas is found phenomenon. Gaza that fits a trend across much of the arab world. High distrust of government young palestinians in the war-battered strip of land are volunteering for an independent campaign called. We will rebuild its initial focus is removal of debris from bombed out buildings with that first step said one activist. we are clearing the pathway. For new reality young gazans may be just the people that the united states and other foreign powers want to reach after the fourth israel hamas war. These big donors plan to bypass moss in channel massive financial aid in a manner. That does its best to go to. The people of gaza says one. Us official the attempt to directly assist young gazans reflect region-wide trend by many leaders to stay in tune with the two thirds of the population that is under the age of third. That's a wrap for the news. You can find the fulling versions of the stories in today's issue or monitor dot com slash daily. Join us tomorrow when we look at the results of california's strict gun controls in today's christian science spiritual perspective our contributor shares house scene and being seen spiritually contribute to meaningful interactions. With other you can find the colony. Today's issue ortiz monitor dot com slash. Tailpipe we want to give a quick thanks to our staff including today's audio production team shop. Turn and eric page birth. This podcast is produced by the christian. Science monitor copyright. Twenty twenty one.