20 Episode results for "King Kaufman"
Mike Bloomberg on Apologies, Facebook and Biden
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts? Welcome to it's all political the San Francisco Chronicle's political podcast. I'm Joe Gear fully the chronicle senior political writer and today our guest is another presidential candidate former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg. I spoke to him for a few minutes Friday after his campaign. Stop in Oakland at Everton Jones Barbecue restaurant by the way he bought Barbecue at ten thirty in the morning or hundred hundred and fifty people who showed up we covered a lot of ground from his apologies. For the stop and Frisk policies. He championed as mayor to what he thinks should be done about facebook two. Why he's a better candidate than Joe Biden? I started by asking him why he jumped into the campaign late. Well it's I I didn't I didn't go because there were enough candidates there that I liked and I thought that I didn't add and they sing and I could still do an awful lot to make this country better. Give away a lot of money money and work with all the charities that we work with and then as people dropped out It went from the people that I liked to some people that I I assume. They're very nice people but I don't think that their ideas are good or we'd get through Congress so that we could afford and I started looking and saying these people cannot be donald trump who I know very well and then I rethought it and said okay. You know if I really believe that I should just go in and try my best and do something for my my country and my kids and It was then too late to get in for the first for And and on the debates. I don't take any money from anybody. So specifically why would you be better than Joe Biden. You must have some concerns about him specifically because you're not not my business to talk about Joe Biden. He can tell you what he thinks he can take what we have different skill sets. I am a manager. I was a mayor. I know how to deliver services include Cole people together and get them to focus and how to delegate. I supervised three hundred thousand employees. When I was the mayor of New York I had to provide services everyday and every crazy kind of situation and catastrophe and good times times and bad times? And that's what I do well and that's what this job needs. It needs a manager. You're you're released. Your energy plan. Today ran an energy plan. Today and it stopped it goes to WHO You want to reduce US carbon emissions by fifty percent by twenty thirty all overnight if you could climate change why is that problem and people in California. Certainly I mean look at television or have to move should see it. Yeah absolutely AH WHY NOT. One hundred percent of some of your rivals has the green new deal. What's what's the challenge and you try? Try to have something a goal. That is doable. If it's so Impossible nobody really tries. And that's typically what happens in government that governs. That's what legislators do they promised the world So that it you never really tried to do it. And they don't have to pay for it and you can't measure whether it works so whether they're doing a good job that's not the world I come from our slogan. Is Michael Get it done. I do things and you have to pick reasonable targets and if you can do it quicker than you thought and you can always raise them later on But you have to be able to measure how well we're doing see where things things aren't working apologize if not but reese start them with a better fix. That's what it's like skiing. You can't go read a book on skiing. Being in ski double black diamonds and the presidency is not a job for amateurs. It's not a job if you need. Training wheels presidency is job. We have to come in in ready to deal with great problems of the world manage four million employees a three hundred and thirty million people and deal with our obligations uh-huh and relationships around the world. Speaking of apologies You the other day you're on the view you apologize for some quote unquote body comments you made towards women The body and embarrassed. I think there was some embarrassment. Shown as one of the women said WHO hasn't told body joke. You also apologized for stop-and-frisk open frisk. That's shortly before this. The base of the party is predominantly People of Color half the Party Democratic Party people are women a huge part of the base. How can they trust you? If you've I've had these major policies on things went well number one. That's a sign of maturity. If something doesn't work to say I'm sorry and then to change and if you show me. WHO's not willing to do that? I can tell you somebody you shouldn't have at your company or your job or as a reporter We started out when I got into office. There was six hundred and fifty murders a year. Mostly mostly young men of minorities And my first thought was just got to do something anything to stop that on. That's the mayor's responsibility. First and foremost this is security and safety of of the citizens Later on I realized we were doing much more than we should have And We do experiment to see what happens. We stopped crime. Didn't go up. It went down and I said okay. Let's stop it and before I left we'd stop ninety five percent of all the stop and Frisk and the crime rate was way down the murder rate to three hundred. But what I've really done is followed on from there taken on the NRA taken on Guns get get him off the streets in every way we can improve education in our schools so that kids aren't standing around on the street corner without a job unable to really participate in the great things in our society and helping them to get their lives on the right track the other day Speaker Pelosi was talking about facebook. She said that they're deceiving. Saving the American people. She had a lot of harsh criticism for them. I'm sure you've heard this. Would you do about facebook if anything in a way to to regulate them or what would you do. Look at the people of the product That's why they have a billion plus customers okay. I believe that all organizations that distribute news should have the same responsibilities as the San Francisco Chronicle. You are responsible for what you print and delivered to your readers regulate you like them like a media company. They are media company. And there's no excuse for not regulated when they say oh the business model doesn't allow it then. Change Your Business Model. But we shouldn't change what's good for society Bloomberg. Thank you so much for being on political. Thanks for having me. I'd like to thank you all for listening. I'd I'd like to thank Mike Bloomberg for chatting with us in Oakland. I'd like to thank the King King Kaufman for producing today's episode and remember whether the president mocks walks you as many mike or Sleepy Joe. It's all political. It's all political as part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast podcast network. Audrey Cooper is editor in chief our music. Our theme music that we have is cattle. Call that's written by Randy Clark and performed by Randy Clark Clark and close on if you like this. Show subscribe rate and review it on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen for more great journalism like this. This subscribe to the San Francisco. Chronicle at San Francisco Chronicle Dot com slash subscribe. You can find me on twitter at job. Gear folding thanks.
Chronicled: A Message from Tal and Joe
"In this episode is brought to you by samsung moms help everyone their most abic selves. So for mother's day helped mambi her most epic with samsung galaxy gifts. Like a smart watch with next level fitness tracking or the statement making galaxy z. Flip five g that lets mom flexor style. This year celebrate what makes mom epoch with samsung galaxy. And hey it's joe and tall. We're back to share some great news about her documentary. Podcast chronicle who is a harris. You want to spill the beans saw. Of course i do. Chronicled has been nominated for a webby award for best documentary. Podcast honored and excited. It would be kind of a big deal and it's amazing just to be nominated but we also need your help. That's right there are two parts. To the webbie's there's a judge's award an audience award to determine who gets the most online votes so we need all of you to vote for us online and it's easy to do in fact we've made it super simple for you. We've created a link that will take you right to the voting site all you have to do to access. The link is go to your browser and type in bitterly slash. Joe vote b. I t dot l. y. slash. Joe vote all lower case. One word and Sorry about the name bud. Producer king kaufman. Hey i get it. It's easier to spell just by listening and speaking of listening if you haven't listened to our podcast yet. You should really check it out. It's a seven part series. That takes you from where harris grew up in berkeley to how she became the first woman. First asian american woman and first black woman to become vice president. You can listen to chronicle who is commonly harris wherever get your podcast forever but remember to vote for us in the webbie's six and tell all your friends in the nineteen seventies. The gay bars of san francisco killer hidden in plain sight lured his victims by drawing their portrait. And when you had them alone he'd unleashes fatal rage. they call them the dupe. I'm kevin fagin. I've been at the san francisco chronicle for twenty eight years. I've covered serial killers from coast to coast. And this dude. The case really bothers me. The most prolific killer of game in modern history is still walking free here untold story of the dealer wherever you get your podcast.
How Ted Lieu Became Trumps Twitter Gadfly
"Welcome to the it's all political podcast. The San Francisco Chronicle's podcast for all things politics. My name is tall copen, the Washington correspondent and senior political writer, you're at the chronicle, and I'm filling in for my friend and colleague job fully who was on a well deserved vacation. On today's episode IV renew my conversation with congressman head Lou represents Torrence in Los Angeles County down in southern California. And the congressman has made a bit of name from self as a very vocal member on social media. Also, a frequent presence on cable TV news who is very critical of President Trump and has been very outspoken against this administration, many of its policies and many of its actions, and I spoke with him in conversation about how he came to that role. But also how he originated as a computer science major or as he puts it reformed computer science major who came to congress to make a difference on cybersecurity. And even Vic sure to stay all the way to the end after this breaks you can hear about who. He's rooting. For on Gema from. Hi, I'm king Kaufman. And shoots. Yours. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story. And then we'll return you to yours. We're here on Capitol Hill with congressman Ted lieu from torn welcome to the show. Thank you super excited. Be on his podcast. We're happy to have you. So you just as a way of sort of introduction to our audience who who may have seen you on cable television once or twice for half's? This is your third term in congress third term fifth year, and you you are sort of well known these days for I think Nancy Pelosi credits you with being an excellent communicator. You're certainly out there talking about your on the judiciary committee. You're talking a lot about the Muller investigation that kind of stuff, but you're actually a computer science major by original trainings, right? That's almost correct, I'm recovering major recovering sites at. So how did someone from that original background and up where you are right now? Sure, I didn't set out to resist the president after their primary elections in twenty sixteen. I rode a public statement that said something like one of the great things about America is our peaceful transfer of power were exceptional nation. It's one reason I served active duty in the military and Donald Trump won the electoral college, we should give him a chance to govern few months later. I conclude I was wrong, and it was because Trump was systematically, attacking the institutions of our democracy. He was going after the first amendment and the free press going after the legitimacy of the judiciary suppressing internal dissent, and then lying at a rate of never seen a human being lie and to me. That takes us down the road to Torah -tarian ISM, and that's a danger to the Republic. And I decided I'm just going to not normalize which should not be normalized in. Like, I mentioned you are you do get a lot of opportunities to interview on on national TV. You also have a very active social media presence. You tweet yourself, by the way, I have two accounts. Okay. I have very classy in palest- office account. And then there's mine, so yes, I I write my own tweets, and that's you. So, you know, the American public if they see tweet coming from that account that that's yes. So at rep Ted lieu is office account just at Ted lieu is Mike count. That's not you know, that's not entirely comment. I think members of congress, I think it's becoming more common. But the notion that you sort of have this this venue of speak directly to the American public. It's a bit sort of. I don't wanna say. President, but it's sort of a new wave. So how did you come around to the idea of using Twitter as that kind of medium? I saw had a three years ago a number of staff interventions doing this. But I just decided that if Donald Trump was going to say twenty seven crazy misleading things a week. I'm going to try to point out that he said twenty-seven crazy misleading things and to not allow him to get away with it. I also realize that there's a lot of downtime just in general and human life, while you're waiting henna checkout line, the grocery store, you're waiting on airport or you just waiting around. And I will sometimes use that time to tweet, and it's also way for me to communicate directly with American people and get responses back directly. So I have sometimes changed my positions based on comments. I read on Twitter and response to what I say sometimes ask people what they think Twitter. And Facebook, and it's a way for me to learn as well, do any particular examples, come to mind of those instances a number times. I've been fact checked, and that's always helpful to know that I'll say something that was not actually accurate. Correct. So for example, one time I said that the house impeached, Nixon, that's not true as she was the district committee that pass argument payment before the house could vote Nixon resigned. Yeah. I have found that Twitter is very good at letting you know when you've screwed something up. Absolutely. And you know, like, I said, you Nancy Pelosi refers to you as a great communicator. I think I've heard others of your colleagues do so as well. Is that something use of practice? Is it just natural to you? I mean, how did you become sort of such a vocal member converts? So it's all based on anger. But then count to twenty before I say something writer tweet. I've also learned his speak in forty five. Second increments, which on television is important. But I just decided that I'm going to try to point out everything that is wrong with what's happening in the White House with what's happening with Republicans. And I'm just not going to let them get away with it. That's sort of what I'm trying to do at the same time as a member congress while trying to push a firm if legislation such as protecting healthcare in their rights of people were present conditions. Make sure we ever should done and making sure that we protect voting rights equality for LGBT community. So I want to be able to do both hold the Trump. Administration Republicans accountable and then talk about Democrats pushing -firmative basis booth American family forward, and you know, like I said, I think it's becoming more the norm for Democrats to be very vocal and social media. What do you make of some of the freshman class who have joined the fray, so to speak and jumped in the freshman classes, awesome. And a there are so many members with incredible backgrounds. We have for example, Tom Manav who was a colleague of mine on the foreign affairs committee, Iran Huerta hearing, and when the witnesses was trying to say something about Obama administration State Department, and then when it came to his turn to question her. He basically set the record straight by opening with the line that Iran that office, and then he explained why she was wrong, and you have other members of congress like Abigail spam? Burger who was in a CIA. You have Lissa slot gun who was. Sys- secretary in department defense, you have people would just incredible amazing backgrounds. So I wanna speaking backgrounds. I want to sort of go back in time in yours. Because like I said, you you have a computer science degree of law degree. You are still in in the air force reserves. Is that right? Yes. Yes. So you have a long career in the air force reserves. You also have a long career in public service and in California Jag in in the air force. So. How did you sort of come to the law, and you know, the same time I remember when you came here in twenty fourteen covering cyber security, you sort of started out that was going to be your path, right? You're gonna be this literate cyber make. So we still need to work on cyber security, and it really is distressing that one the first things jump boat and did was eliminate the main cyber security position in the national security agency. I don't know why he did that. But we clearly have to increase security because of what the Russians did and 2016 whether to do again in twenty twenty, but we also have a president that is I think really taking the country down a wrong path. And so the number of issues I talk about his expanded. And the ministration provides a lot of material worth. I as I mentioned I was covering security right around that time. And I remember it sort of felt like a really hard issue to get the American people interested in, you know, there was sort of credit card breaches, which was what came to mind when people thought of cyber security, but everyone felt it was important and yet it's felt very difficult as a salient public message. And it feels like that changed. You have you noticed a change even among your colleagues in terms of their interest in the issue? We've definitely noticed a huge shift in both public opinion as well. As other interested members of congress after the twenty sixteen elections because we were hacked by a foreign power. The mullahs report makes it very clear that the Russians engaged in a systematic and successful effort to influence our elections and part of it was through their use of cyber weapons, and we just need to be much better prepared heading new twenty twenty I found. Distressing, by the way, that former homeland security secretary cures. Nielsen one to bring this up with the president. But she for staff, Mick Mulvaney, prevented her from doing. So because he didn't wanna make the president upset. So what are some of the things you would still like to see congress do on that front going for in terms of cybersecurity? I think we I need a cyber security cabinet level position right now if you look at executive branch, cyber security is all over the place. You got the office of management budget that has a portion of security you've got the department homeland security has a portion, and then you've got the White House that has a portion and no one really quite knows what's happening. And it's not just a Trump administration. They're over ministration had this same problem. A some co-authored of replenish, Jim Bill at centralized sub security into basically one focal point. And I think we need to do that. What are some of the other issues that you're working on that may be don't get as much visibility? Because it sort of all Muller all the time. It seems right? No, thanks question. So every term authored the climate solutions act, which is one of the most aggressive bills in congress to tackle climate change. A one of the best things I ever did in my entire career was a co author of California's landmark global warming solutions act known as AB thirty two I was in a state assembly at the time. And I think the reason that California's climate change laws were it. Well, is we didn't go out and say, hey, here's two thousand two hundred fifty one things we want you to do climate change. Instead, we set goals, and then we gave an agency immense power to take us there. A so in California, we said go of going to pre nineteen ninety emissions in terms of greenhouse gases by twenty twenty some my Bill Klem Slough. Acting congress is a similar model. It says that by twenty thirty five we're going to go to hundred percent, we knew more energy by twenty fifty when go to eighty percent reduction in greenhouse gases, and then when I give the department energy and the EPA the power to take us there. So what do you make of the the green new deal? Both both in terms of what it is. But also in terms of it being the of new talking point that's been brought here by the energetic freshman class. I've a coffin clean you deal. I think it's fantastic energy activism that it has sparked at the same time. We have to recognize it what it is. It's a resolution has no force of law. If it were to pass tomorrow, nothing would happen what you would actually need or bills like my climate solutions act, which would have the force a law if it became law to implement parts of the green new deal. So I think people need to be talking both about climate change and green you deal, but also about Asha legislation that would have the force of law behind it. And have you had conversations without syndrome because Cortez and some of the folks who sort of are really pushing for the green deal about that about those sort of existing pieces of legislation our show, I've talked to you about the green deal and our office has sent her office my climate change legislation whilst going to do something called regular order, which leader Pelosi as she speaker Pelosi committed to which is we're going to run or bills through committees and Cohen witnesses put them on oath have experts have both Democrats Republicans ask questions get documents and wanna make the legislation as inclusive as if we can and to do it, right? Instead of what Republicans did laster, which is jammed things through without a lot of oversight. Without a lot of is looking at it. And and you know, that that Bill was sort of informed by the experience in California, California, certainly has a lot of influence right now. In terms of you know, San Francisco Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, even Kevin McCarthy is in, you know, the minority leader position, what are some of the ways you see California lawmakers here in Washington having a real impact on the trajectory. I actually don't think Kevin McCarthy help California at all. He was wearing the champions of basically a getting rid of the salt tax deduction, which really wacked a Californians. And by putting a limit on the Saudi Duchesne, a really in fact raised taxes, a millions of California's a down the state, I think that's one reason Kevin McCarthy's Republican, California delegation got cut in half last November from fourteen members who now seven of fifty three members of California delegation, only, seven or Republicans, and I think that's a large part because Kevin McCarthy has not been fighting for the interest of California in any way whatsoever. He's as you've been hurting. California. What about on the democratic side were some of the ways that California lawmakers are having an impact here? A so one way is were fighting for disaster assistance in my own district. We've had a wildfires there isn't wildfires in northern California. And so we've been working with the California delegation members for increases in federal funding. One the good things that I've learned in others have learned is that FEMA is generally nonpartisan and most legislators nonpartisan. So when it comes to disasters. A we support there's Asir victims and whether disasters in California or in Iowa or in Texas were going to try to help those Astor victims. Yeah, it I've been covering this quite a bit. And and this this Bill that would give billions of dollars in relief to not just California, but you know, farmers and Georgia and the Carolinas that are that are really hurt. By this. It's still stuck on this Puerto Rico the debate. Do you see a way out of the stalemate? I think it's going to eventually happen. And you're right. It is a stuck right now. But we have agreement on ninety five percent of the Bill. And so I think legislation both sides are trying to figure out the Puerto Rico part of it. But for much of the rest of the Bill, there's Riemann and for our readers. The the problem is that the White House doesn't want to give more money for Rico outside of six hundred million for their food stamp program. But Democrats and certainly in the house, they say they will not move forward without correct. When Donald Trump went to Puerto Rico and through paper towels at their folks trans- out that that was not enough assistance. Puerto Rico Rulli got wacked incredibly hard, and we really need to do a lot more to help devictor Puerto Rico who by the way. Many people may not know they're US citizens. These are Americans that we need to help, you know, one other thing we've sort of gotten some attention for is in hearings lately you've been actually been playing audio on your phone. So you you actually use them as Francisco Chronicle story for one of them about an immigrant tiled who sort of caught up in this unfortunate situation having been separated from one parent and another parent trying to get them. You also play canto endzone words back to her. What inspired you to sort of take that route? And did you expect it to go as viral as it did? I definitely didn't expect to go as viral as did I actually found it a really luminated because I was just basically playing back a person's words back to them. And to just see how people reacted to that. Even though this was not a new speech at had been out there in Africa quite a while. I simply played it in a hearing. And it sort of shows that these congressional hearings awash by a lot of people more than I thought, and it's not just C span viewers anymore. People are paying tension. And that's actually a good thing for democracy. So for example, I can tell you that law students in my time. We had no idea what the monuments clause. No one ever taught that to us and now half America knows what the emoluments clause is in the constitution. So there's as massive amount of civic education. That's happening. More people are being registered to vote more young people or voting and that is a good thing. The long run for democracy has has that lesson. Do you have you taken anything from that? In terms of how you're searching hearings. And especially you know, now that that House Democratic investigations seem to be really ramping up. So I'm also a former prosecutor, I've always realized it's always a -ffective. To you. Someone's own words, whether you play that in a video or you simply show a document of it or you recite it back to them. I remember when I was questioning general sessions a last term I had his own words where he said something very different in a Senate committee compared to what he was telling us judiciary committee versus what he actually wrote down in the security application for security clearance. So I've always tried to see can actually use someone's prior statements to make a point about them. So so future witnesses be warned. Yes. And what else is interesting is you do as you point out have this amazing technology now there's more competing power in your cell phone then in the computers that were responsible for the moon landing. So yeah, this huge amount of information your fingertips, and you can access it. And so sometimes I'll be in a hearing. And what is will say something that I think is just incorrect or wrong or ill ill, bring up another point in my mind. Simply go on my phone, and I'm able to verify very quickly. And then one day I decided, hey, I'm just gonna play this on the phone. And and see what happens and what happens as it created viral moment. Yes, it was it just it went viral. It wasn't something I expected so I'll take out here on this. What's what's a fun fact about tightly? What's something that people at home might not know about you. Having watched you on TV in from afar. Oh, a fun fact about me why do like traveling. But now the traveled so much between LA in DC. Ten light traveling somewhat less, but I do really enjoy reading science fiction some of your favorites. I love the dune series. Okay. I liked enders game. One of my favorites. I currently love game of thrones, sir. More more fantasy. I wanted actually a white Walker to get on the iron film, but that's not gonna happen anymore. Rooting for the bad guys. I can be very dark some. All right. Well, I guess that's that's that will leave it on that note. Thank you so much for your time for joining us on its political. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I'm hoping the San Francisco Chronicle's Washington correspondent, we appreciate your listening. Also, please subscribe, you can download on podcast on your favorite method of downloading podcasts, and you can also subscribe to the newspaper and our online content at SF chronicle dot com. You can follow me on Twitter at at tall copen or Email me at tall dot copen as chronicle dot com. Thank you so much for tuning. It's all political is part of the services, Cisco chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper's the editor in chief. If you like this show, we'd love it. If you'd subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast, and if you've got a minute to give us a quick review that helps us build our audience. So we can keep growing. Follow me on Twitter at Joe gear Foley jail. E G A R O F O L or can Email me at J air Foley at SF chronicle dot com support it's all political and a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle there are print and digital editions. Find out more at SF, chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
Raising Alex Honnold with Dierdre Wolownick
"I'm Heather Knight, host of San Francisco city insider, you'll hear bigwigs in one of the world's most fascinating cities, talk about the most important issues including, where they get their favorite burrito that San Francisco city insider. Welcome to the wild west podcast where today. I'm excited to have our guest Deirdre. Woah. Nick, the mother of none other than rock climber. Alex Honolulu deirdre's new memoirs out. It's called the sharp end of life, and it chronicles her journey into rock, climbing as a way to kind of deal with fear and break through those self imposed limits. We all put on ourselves. She recounts, the challenges of growing up in a conservative, polish family in New York City. Then his young woman, she breaks with her family traditions, and moves to California to pursue a relationship with a man who had become her husband, Charlie huddled, they have two children, Alexandra Asia shortly thereafter, Charlie sort of began drifting away from the family leaving Deirdra to raise two children while also juggling work as a teacher after Charlie's death, and after Alexander's Asia move out. Deirdre takes up endurance running, and rock climbing and eventually at age sixty six she actually becomes the oldest woman on record to climb. El capitain, which is the, the three thousand foot granite wall in Yosemite. And she did that with the help of her son, who is, of course, one of the most daring rock climbers on the planet. I had to over the years learn to deal with what he does, you know, to dial it back and just trust his judgment. You know, at him decide what he can do. He's the only one who can be side that Deirdre talks about the interesting experience of raising Alexander and then ultimately going on and climbing these classic Yosemite routes with him. She also talks a lot about how she used physical training to overcome her longstanding, fears and really take control of her life. It's a great conversation, and I hope you guys really enjoy it. We'll get to my conversation with Deirdre and just a moment. But first this brief message. Hi, I'm king Kaufman and shoots yours century. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days, gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story and then we'll return you to yours. All right. We're back now onto my conversation with author. Deirdre woolen ick. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. We haven't I was thinking, we haven't seen each other since last fall when I went to L cap meadow to interview Alex about free solo just before it was premiering actually bumped into you in the little parking strip there and got talking. And it was funny because I chatted with you and I was like I'm here to me now and you seemed surprised I don't think you knew that he was there. And then afterwards I went in chatted with Alex, and he was like, oh, my mom's here, like I didn't. Yeah. I think we go. I think at the time you were getting ready to jug up a line on L cab. Yes. And that was when I was practicing, and sort of cemented it for me at that moment, it was like, oh, this isn't just something that you do to bond with your son, or it's like, floored that kind of but, yeah, yeah, it's a lifestyle. I was I was training that day. What were you training for? I'm the oldest woman to ever climb, El capitan. And I did that two years ago in on Halloween day of seventeen. And I did it with my son, which is really super. And so I trained for many weeks to do this go to Yosemite every week. Go jogging for about two days, do some cardio. Some heavy duty cardio training on the walls or another day. I did that for about seventeen or eighteen weeks before we get into that. I just wanted to have a little time line here that I wanted to kind of run by you, so June two thousand seventeen Alex Sollozzo calf. What are your first thoughts? Oh, that'd be another book, right there. I as always Alex doesn't ever, tell me about his free souls beforehand, which, I've always appreciated all my life all his life. So I didn't know he was going to do it. In fact, I was with him with friends. We were with him the day before. And we went hiking, and you gave us a little tour and chatted with us, and we'd say goodbye because my friends, and I were driving up to Portland to see his sister, his sister lives in Portland, the next day. So we left the valley that afternoon. He said he was going to go to bed early that day, maybe watch some movies. So the next day I was driving up, I five with my friends, and we put off at a rest area and to have a snack early in the morning. He did it. I could six she started at six something in the morning. So like three hours after that statia texted his sister station had had just found out. So she texted me, and I that's how I got the news. Yeah. What was your immediate reaction in the book? You say that it was incomprehensible to it's still is. I was like, what he did what? Yeah. It took it took me a while to come down enough to get back in the car and keep driving. You know, I am I am used to this kind of thing. But still, I mom took me awhile, and to, to people, I was with are also parents of young adults like that. Then we of sat there for a while talked about what that meant. Yeah. How did that conversation? Go with them these other parents, well, it, it was it was kind of odd. I mean, they, they had seen El cap the previous day for the first time in their lives from France, had never been United States before. So I took him on a tour of California's that's what we were doing. Dr driving all the way up to Portland and so they, they tried to wrap their heads around, but and I tried to write my head ran. We just kind of hamden hard and had our little cheese, or whatever we had and left. I you know, it takes it takes a while to wrap your mind around something like that, sir. Sure. And then you see the film free solo. What are your first thoughts seeing it? Well, the same same kind of thoughts that I thought all about, you know what he just done the, the first time I watched. It was really hard because, you know, I have dialed rollback and I've been up through myself. And I've learned how to climb kind of with that in the back of my mind and trying to understand what he does and be part of his life, which has become my life as well. You know I love coming out, too. So I had to over the years learn to deal with what he does, you know, to dial it back and just trust his judgment. You know, at him decide what he can do. He's the only one who can decide that. And I just had to keep reminding myself of that, as I watched the movie because that's a pretty intense movie even if you don't know him if you're your hundred percent sure how the movie ends you still. It's a really intense movie, and that's a big credit to the filmmakers to their editing skills to their videography via graphic skills. So it was pretty intense, but I managed to keep it together. Yeah. And then, you know, a month after it comes out free Sola gets nominated for an economy award for best documentary and one and then eventually it wins. So what's going through your head when it when it wins? I mean this I thought it was I thought it was gonna I was pretty sure it was going to win. I did you know from all all the criterion criteria. I knew about the industry, and I just and then it won the BAFTA in England one week before and the BAFTA is kind of like their version of the Oscars, it is their version of the Oscars, and when won the BAFTA hands down in the prince and the Princess came at the chat with Alex examined, his hands, and they were really taking with it. So when all that happened, I the kind of solidified it for me, I kind of knew it was going to win. And then the less, it was still a nice surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Has it changed anything for you in terms of your thinking about what Alex does or how can people know the movie was them wasn't him? He was gonna do this climb anyway. Right. Whether anybody watched or not he was gonna eventually try to Seoul, Therese. Oh, okay. You know, it's been a long term goal of so, and I didn't know that because he never tells me about this result. And that's not the kind of thing you talk about with your mother, or anybody else who might worry about your really your mind clear for this kind of thing super clear. So no, it doesn't change anything. It's just a movie. It's just out there. It's nice hasn't really changed. Anything? Okay. So. You start climbing at age fifty eight. Right. What's that, like it's a lot of hard work? Yeah. I, I had started running long distance running when at fifty five I think I was and I started got into it because of my kids, and they're very encouraging, and, you know, they just had such a good time. In other sports, I wanted to try them and statia is a long distance, runner long distance cyclist, and I did a little bit cycling were her. I'll never be made. No, I won't say, never. Yeah. I'll never say never again. You never know but I may somebody do a long distance vice bicycle ride. But the running I found out that I could do little by little I kind of bumped up, my mileage, a little and Alex's very encouraging Alex's take on any kind of training or any kind of attempt of any physical. We're talking about is always kind of the same. If you can do one mile or whatever it is. You can do to you. You can do three miles you could do for. So this is this is his take on life, you know. And this really removes all limits, there are no limits, except those, which you impose on yourself. Unfortunately, a lot of people accept other people's limits on them. And that's kind of what my book is about, right? You know, my book is about not buying into those limits that other people put on you, they say, oh, you can't do that ura. You're too young too old. You to that euro girl, you're not supposed to whatever you know, to buy into those things is self defeating. Yeah, there's a line in the book you have, it's the effect of there are many forms of living in many forms of dying. The tough part is figuring out which form you wanna pursue or identifying the form. There are a lot of people on this planet, who were just kind of biding their time, you know, to lay shuffle off and because of a lot of these limits that are imposed on us. And if you just think it through, don't buy into these silly limits. You can do anything anything that you really set your mind to. Yeah, there's you talk about limits. And I think with that, how that translates for most people is it's measured in fear. Yeah. Yeah. And you said the climate in the book, you say climbing brought out fears that you didn't know you had and kind of force you to confront them or gave you the opportunity to confront them. So I was just wondering if you could tell us what those fears were and how climbing gave you a, a mechanism for dealing with them? This is a big question. This is another book. I think. Yeah. I, I've never been fearful person, I grew up with fearful grownups, you know, all around me and I always thought that was terrible. I, I always knew that. When I grew up, I wasn't going to be like that. You know. So I was fearful. But I had these physical girl in New York City, I was supposed to wear dresses, and it's supposed to be hate myself. And my mother was handicapped. So I had to help all the time and stay home. And, and so I had a lot of limits, put on me. But in my head I knew that they were just external limits. And I was in charge of what I believed myself capable of and fear. Fear takes many forms. I had never really pushed my physical limits. I had other limits, I, I learned language after language speak, lots of languages. I've taught many languages many places, and I've, I've been an orchestra conductor for several years. And I was I've done any jobs that were airline airports, and I worked I was multi-lingual tour guide and I learned how to do things that involve the brain, you know. So I had no limit. It's that way from other people, but I had never really tested, my physical limits because they kept telling me, you know, your girl don't this. You're too old. Don't do this all my colleagues up. The college were always, you know, I would come in on Monday morning. We'd all chat about, you know, would you do this weekend? I tell them I went to lover's leap, and we climb this, and that's and they were like appalled cuter. You shouldn't be doing, you know, you, you gotta get hurt that's sort of speaking Sern as you gotta get hurt. So and, and the running bit I, I had grown up in a household. This is back in the old days in, in a in eastern. European kind of household after World War, Two things are pretty controlled if you wanna call it that and the girls, especially stayed home with their mother and father until they were married that was it. And that's the way it went. You know, I never really bought into that. But I stayed anyway, just. It was expedient and my brother did as well. And we were both teachers are still living at home. But that's the way it was back then. And you know, it's wherever we did, and the house was filled with cigar and cigarette smoke all the time both my parents smoked all the time. They didn't know any better back, then, you know, they really didn't it was the cool thing to do. Yeah. Lived in the big city, my mother's from Pennsylvania. So now she lived in the big city, we live in New York. It was cool. It'd be cool. So I grew up in its cloud of cigars. I knew quote unquote that I could never run. I could never be anything really physical because I had trouble breathing. You know, it destroys your lungs. Secondhand smoke bad for you could be the poster child for hand smoke. So anything more more strenuous than sitting still huffing puff? You know. So I knew quote on quote, I couldn't be a runner, but I didn't know that you can train yourself up out of that abyss. You know, to a certain extent. And I started and thanks to both by kids. And they encouraged me encourage me. There's a really interesting passages story in the book about that the day that changed my life completely, and that was the why the run to feed the hungry in Sacramento, six point two miles, a ten K I couldn't even imagine running six miles, that's, that's quite a distance. If you've never run, you know, but I started a little by little shorter following Alex's vice. You know, I come home with Alex, I ran a mile with the dog seething cool. Mom, you can do one, you can do to can do to you can do three and on. It went and on it went and Finally, I wound up doing marathons and half marathons done four marathons dispersant who puffed and puffs if she got off the chair, you know, so you never know. Yeah, it sounds like you, you know, used this physical training as a way to kind of deal with some of the limits that you felt like we're put on you when you were younger for sure. So what is it about the, you know, the physical training the act of being physical? There's something about surpassing your what you thought was your limit. That is immensely immensely gratifying. You can't imagine that until you do it, and I had never really done it. I mean on bike rides when I was young, but, you know what hiking and stuff? But slowly and you know, I knew quote unquote I could couldn't do more, but I was cert- suddenly I was discovering night could do more and more. And then even more and even more, you know, I didn't I still at this point don't know where my physical limits are for running, or for any of the other stuff. But there was not that much fear at this level involved in running the running was. More convincing myself that no, those are not my limits. Those were put on me and I will not accept them. You know that's not fear the fear came in when I started rock climbing. That's what really puts a fear in your. Yeah. And sounds like just as much as it was as getting into climbing was about connecting with Alex. It also seemed like it was about you gaining control of your life. It was for sure. I had my life had been. It had been spun out of control, not by me. But by you know, circumstances, one death and another death. My father, my mother, and my father-in-law, Alex almost died, and then I had four I was re recall, re reconstructing remodeling four houses at the same time three on the east coast and one in west check. Minto. I was doing all this while working fulltime. And while being executive from my late husband's my late ex husband's estate, all of this, at the same time, it took years for that altered melt away to for me to finish all the work, so I did nothing all the time every day every day, but work. And then I started, you know. I finished started finishing things up and I had a little time to go play with my kids, you know, to experience their world to go. Biking would stay to go running with either of them both of them or to go, and then I got, when I started running marathons, I thinking, I'm sort of kind of an athlete. Now, maybe I'm capable this point of understanding what my son does when he goes out on these expeditions, he would leave for weeks at a time go to Borneo or Siberia or South America, wherever then he'd come back and tell me these wonderful stories, and I didn't understand what they meant I didn't see it was a language that I didn't speak, yet, you know, I spent a lot of languages, but that wasn't one of them. And so I, I crave I wonder if I wanted to understand what he was telling me what he was doing on to understand what it meant for him for his life. And, and I. Understood that, you know, people looking at what he'd look at what he does. And they say, oh, God. That's so dangerous. Well, that's kind of a knee jerk reaction. I, I knew, you know, he was doing it and coming home. I knew it wasn't a dangerous. I didn't know why though I, I wanted to experience what he was up to. So I could be part of his life. I really wasn't at that point. I was just mom. You know. And so that's kind of got me into it. Yeah. Well, you touched on something there that I wanted to bring up with you, and it goes all the way back to Alex's childhood. A lot of this book is about parenting and raising your children, right? And in the book, you know, when Alex is a young child, you mentioned him climbing everything in sight. And as a result of that kind of becoming miss target of ridicule from other parents, it's like you can be he is he manifests all of their insecurities about their own right shoulder, and they tell you that you need to control your son, stop them from climbing things. He's setting a bad example, that kind of thing, and that has, I think, followed Alex a little bit like there have been other criticisms that have been leveled against him as he pulls off these major climbing, feats, and excursions. And so, I was just wondering what you make of that, having experienced that when he was a young child, and then seeing it come up now when he's an adult that's a, that's a big question. You have a lot of big questions. Yeah. When he was a kid, of course like you said it manifests. This does speed that topic of fear parents fear for their children, obviously that the parents main job is to protect their children. See that they lived to adulthood and, you know, the other parents would see what Alex was doing. Oh, goodness kit. You control him. You know. Right. And, and Alex wasn't interested in baseball, or soccer or any of those other things. He just wanted to climb, and this, this was not one of their most parents. What do you want to call it approved choices, you know, as an endeavor for their kids. So they just didn't buy into it as, as an option children. You know, it was way too dangerous for children, and he shouldn't be doing this. I could see, of course, you know, they didn't live with him on a day to day basis. I could see that he was totally in control. He knew what he was doing and he could do these things, and come back down, and he was fine. And, and there was no need for concern. Of course, I was concerned I didn't know about climbing. He was little. I didn't know climbing was a sport. I'd never heard of such a thing. It wasn't in the mainstream. I it is now. So, but they didn't you know, live with it on daily basis, they didn't see how sure he was how safe he was. You know, they're concerned for his safety, and for my health, because I was always worn down when he was little, I never had a moment to myself, 'cause I in retrospect, I might have had had I known what are you was capable of? But had I known what climbing wasn't? You know what are you what are you could do? I might have relaxed a little bit more and not, you know, I couldn't take my eyes off him for like seven seconds. You know, he'd be up on the roof or up on the shower bar or something. Yeah. Up on something high. And I didn't know that this was okay. You know, I was still learning myself. So. Yeah, it was. It was a. I had to really really channel this, this concept of not listening to other people's limits, the same theme, these same concerns emerging free Sola where some of his friends, I mean, obviously other climbers, can't bring themselves to watch and do this climb, or part of it was nerve wracking to watch for soloing, if you don't know how it's going to turn out. Sure. I would never want to watch it. Well, that's what makes me wonder about it is because these aren't people who don't understand what climbing is aren't familiar. They know exactly what it is. And that's and that's why they're afraid right, right? Right. Right. And I wonder if that at, you know, gives you pause or makes you reconsider any of this, when that reconsider I mean he's going to do these things. Sure, regardless. This is who he isn't. It's always everyone. It's what feeds his soul. You know, makes them happy. And why would you want to take that away for your child? You know. Really? So. No not reconsider. But, but I really have to really back, you know, really in because I know what can happen. You know I've been up there now myself, right? When you look down for you is really see those headlines, you know what could happen, but you have to just accept his judgment. He's the only one who can judge whether you can do these things. And yes, free swimming is a one hundred percent individual sport. I mean there were a lot of individual sports, but this one is one hundred percent in the head of the individual who's going to be doing it. He's the only one who knows how his fingers feel his skin is what the weather's like how he feels in, in everywhere. So I I it would be hubris on my part to try to weigh in on that decision. Your late husband. Alex Stacy's father. It's clear that something as we read the book, it's clear that something is going on with him. Something it's like something is hampering his ability to process, his environment. In a way that makes sense to you. He's neglectful he's kind of distant he, but he also loves adventuring and exploring the outdoors and he loves adventuring with your children, and it seems like those experiences were really formative for Alexander stays Lia in terms of their development in terms of the lives that they lead adults. And so I just wondered how you kind of reconcile all that. There's this sort of estrangement, maybe you can characterize it that way on the part of Charlie from, from the family. But then this flipside of him, you know, it also planted something in your children that it seems like has helped them grow into these, like intelligent independent. Adults with rich lives. I'm not gonna go too deep into that. But yeah, he his love of the outdoors, definitely fed their love. It'd be outdoors as minded as well. We started them camping when they were babies, you know, one and three and loved it camping his great for kids. Absolute great traveling in general is great for kids. People often say, oh, I'm going to wait until my kids are old enough to travel. That's nonsense. Children are traveling through every day of their lives. They don't know any different. They don't know how things are supposed to be anywhere. Children are born travelers, and camping is an extension of that, so, yeah, his love the outdoors and of the mountains. Definitely definitely helped feed that, that lifestyle, there's. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about station. She you started running to impart, bro closer to her. Is that right? Yeah. Part of it. And what I asked when I had Alice on the podcasts last fall, I asked him about her, some of his friends who had reached out to in advance told me they were like ask him about his sister. She's gonna kind of this interesting lifestyle. She is if I'm understanding, right? She's a vegan. She doesn't own a car. She doesn't get a smartphone. She often goes off on these thousand mile bike, ride long, outdoor adventures and endurance feats by herself. And I wonder what of her lifestyle has has rubbed off on you. Well, just in general. Appreciating her, or her choices over choices in when I was, you know, twenty years ago, her some choices kind of kind of dubious to me, but I didn't try to shut her down on like in try shut him down and try to understand, you know what she loved what drove her and she's an amazing individual. She cut in both of them are kind of limitless in what they'll try not in the risk. Meaning of that. You know, then able knievel kind of sort of whatever. Dare-devils. Yeah, exactly. That's, that's it. That's the word thank you. They're not dare devils at all, especially Alex, he trained for ten years for this client, that's not a daredevil that's methodical and thoughtful and, you know, and mostly of all thoughtful, both of them are like that. And so it was wonderful to watch them blossom in their respective sports. And she, yeah, she's an amazing. She. Over last long bike ride was from she bike from Portland at the very top of Oregon down to south Lake Tahoe. For that ride. You have to go over, I think I think three mountain chains. Excuse, you, the, the cascades go over an engine the Sierra, this is amazing. She didn't think anything of it, it's just fun like Alex, it's just fun. It's just what they do. Yeah, there's this point in the book, you're in your mid twenties. I think it's maybe right after you've made the decision to move away from your family on the east coast to California to start a relationship with Charlie. The man who would become your husband and your parents, don't really react to the news that you're leaving. And you say, no one ever said a word about anything that mattered in our house, and that just kind of stuck with me. I thought that was well, you have to understand the eastern European mindset to understand that remark. I've, I've come to appreciate this other people that said that to me to buy took for granted that people would understand, you know, the postwar mindset, and I probably shouldn't have, but after World War Two, and especially, you know, after World War Two in New York City, New York was overrun with immigrants people from all over Europe all over the world. And my family was from eastern Europe from Poland and the. Old country ways for very, very different than our American way is very, very different, especially their ways of child raising, you know, bring up kids so adults did not talk to children in that world. First off did also spoke, polish and the kids, all spoke English. So there was that dichotomy after the war, nobody wanted their children's speak anything but English we were Americans, you know, but our grandparents, and great uncles everybody, they all spoke, polish family gatherings, all the adults running out, and speak Boesch. We didn't understand word of it. You know. So I, I could never talk with my grandparents vice versa. So it was that right there, you have a complete dichotomy. You know, parents didn't talk to children. Children had nothing to add adult conversation, children, didn't reason like adults so you know why bother you know, that was kind of their attitude. You weren't an adult in two. You were parent basically. And so. Keeping that in mind. That's what this sentence means. They never discussed anything of import with us. We were just children. You know, to them, we were their children. And so they just in that mine, and said that eastern European approach to child raising the adults make all the decisions, period, end of story children, obey, that's the way we were raised, you know. So that's what I meant there. They never discussed anything of import with us. They just gave us. Orders, and we and we obeyed. Yeah, it sounds like you went the other way with your kids, you. Yes. Well, when I was like, three I, I could see the effects this had on, you know, I three three and a half. I knew that if I ever had children know had babies. I didn't want them ever to feel. I felt I didn't want ever to do the things that I saw my parents during not that there were Muslims. They were wonderful loving parents, but they didn't know what to do about it. You know they didn't know how to relate to children. It was that was the eastern European waves the old country way. And so I, I was glad my grandparents decided to move to this country is I wouldn't have to, you know be subject to that kind of rigorous. Veld on show. You know, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. And it seems like that was that's part of what, you know, as you go through the book. Eventually when you start undertaking when you start climbing some of these old, I don't know what you want to call them, demons, or you know this whole baggage. Let's say you're trying to overcome essentially climbing. Is that right? By the time I started climbing, I had already got gotten past all that stuff. The climbing was, so what two reasons I mean, I had always loved climbing when I was a little girl, but I wasn't supposed to do it. I supposed to wear dresses behave myself. You know, I followed all the little boys when they up the garage roofs and up the trees, I wasn't supposed, you know. The dealt saw us up through the yellow, you know, that was that was the end of that we had to be, so I loved climbing, but. And then in the middle part of my life, I didn't know climbing was sport, an organized sport. I'd ever heard climbing gym. We climb trees garages, and, you know, fences and stuff lampposts. So. I was intrigued I was kind of a little jealous allies was having a wonderful time out there making a living had even doing what I knew I loved. She Mike and I do that, you know, so there's a little bit of that a little bit of, you know. Oh, I wanna try that, too. I think I like it. Yeah. And also wants to be part of his life, I guess it'd before I didn't speak that language. You know, the jargon of climbing. It's very particular very specific language. So I wanted to learn that language, and I wanted to be able to share his life. Yes. So you start going to the gym the local gym Clinton with some people there. Eventually you kind of migrate outdoors. They start taking me outdoors. Yeah. And then you start climbing with Alex in Yosemite. And he starts leading you on route. So can you talk about that a little bit with that was released? Sure, every year, I get Alex my birthday is in September, and September the fall in general is prime season in Yosemite. Climbers the elite climbers and all kinds of all over the world, come to Yosemite in the fall to train. And so Alex is always there in the fall. So I know this and my birthdays in the fall, so instead of going out and buying me as you know, present, I don't need. Would you leave me have something spectacular? And every every year, he does has since two thousand ten twenty ten and are for first one was half dome. It's a quite an ambitious. I climb. Yeah. So, yeah, so that's, that's sort of been the impetus been our excuse to get together and go climb once a year. And is there any other any particularly memorable moments from those first couple of climbs? Goodness, nothing. But. Nothing. But I I you know, big climb with him was half, though. Not not the front. Not the fight face of half dome. That's for elite climbers, only on ever. Do anything like that on ever, be a really good climber. And I know that, but I haven't great time and the, the as you're looking at halftime, the left shoulder of half dome is where the hikers go up. You know, the cable. On the right side. The west side is there are several technical climbs. And so we went up one called snake dike. And it, it was memorable in so many ways you'll have to read that story in the book, it goes into that. Oh, just the hike in was memorable. We almost got creamed by a bunch of older than I, I had my first encounter close encounter with a rattlesnake, and I it was it was just like an epic hike in four and a half miles of hiking. And when you hike with Alex, you don't dawdle. Alex holds speed records on everything. Alex does not dawdle so four hours of super fast hiking, and then we had lunch, and then we kind for the major of the day, like eight, more hours, something like that. And so just in terms of physical limits alone I was exhausted. Like half of the day. I was are we there yet, you know, and mentally in all these little things. By the time I counted, the rattlesnake, you know, after after the boulders in the stream and the rattlesnakes I was like, okay can we go home? Now. You know, I didn't think that we should climb after all those emotional moments. I, I didn't know what I was capable of, at that point. But Alex was on his way up. Alexander be on the top that day because the National Geographic crew was waiting for him up there. So they could take the pictures, one of which became the cover of the National Geographic magazine. That's the one where the. You know, the verb Honolulu. Okay. That's, that's the hunt holding cover from twenty ten. So after that, we had our lunch, and then we started up, and I had never been on slab climbing before. And it's all slap race. There's nothing on half dome. Nothing not a hold not a lump. Not a block. There's nothing on half them to hold us. All your fee, kind of slab climbing. And this was totally new to me and an yeah. He told me it was going to be. But I didn't know what that meant. I had never seen it before. I'd been on slabs site. Three or four feet of slap. But this was four thousand feet slab or whatever it was two thousand. So it was an alien experience to me, and I had never been on anything that exposed. And I got I forced myself to not look around just to focus on the rock right in front of me. So I could just do my job. Get up this rock behind Alex, and by like the third pitch. My, you know, the angel on your right shoulder and the devil on your left show, you, my, my one of them was telling me that turn around you're missing the most gorgeous view of your life. And so I again is over that for another pitcher. So I finally got up the courage to turn around and they were right? I was missing the most extraordinary view that I had ever had. It's like being in a helicopter up there with no helicopter. You're just there's nothing around you. Because when you turn around the rucks slopes away behind you and there's, there's nothing. It was amazing. It was amazing in every possible way there's a fun moment from the book. I think it's when you guys are gearing up to climb to drill to, and you have you loaded. You're, you're packing your pockets with snacks and water and a chalk bag and like all the things I thought I would need it was he thought you need and Alex, just kinda goes through. And like gives you a quick appraisal. Just starts pulling stuff out. You don't need any of this. He was right. It's just a fun. Like mother son moment. I thought. Yeah. That's kind of how I saw two I kept holding out for a little snack or a little extra water. I did convince them of one or two things, but mostly he was. Right. He knows I mean that I need to be lighter to go faster and with him, you go really fast, and we weren't going to go really fast. He knew that. But so he wanted to get me as light as possible. And so I know you're in recuperation right now kiss. But what's next on your on your agenda, besides touring and promoting the book? What else do you have gone on? He's if things I have a friend coming over from Germany, who wants to sample, California climbing. I hope I'm up to it by then she's coming in September October. But I, I, I have sampled I've just briefly sampled climbing in other countries, I've, I've kind in Greece kind of France, a little bit kind in Mexico Canada. And there, there's, there's amazing rocks, all of the world and they're all different just a little bit different. You know, the setup is different the kind of rock is different. So, and of course, I'm a language versa, and I go on these trips and it's cool in so many ways, I can use all my languages climb on these rocks. So I want to I want to try climbing in the dolemite someone climb in the Alps. So I was. Actually, in the Alps I was in the league Callan, which is on the Mediterranean of France. And so that'll be very different. I want to go back to Greece. Some point I want to go back to Mexico. At some point, I want to go climb in China. I just got an invitation for friend in China to go climb there. So I would love to do that. There's, there's I want to go back to the gung love love, so New York state. So I got a whole long list of where when gone to my con- sounds great. Yeah. Why don't want to take up anymore? Your time, just want to say thanks very much for coming on. It's great. Thanks for having me. Thanks very much, again, to Deirdre her new memoir, is called the sharp end of life. It's available on Amazon. It's an inspirational read for anyone looking for insights into pushing past their own personal limits. If you wanna follow what I'm up to with California travel. I'm on Twitter at Greg Thomas. Or if you've got questions for me or suggestions. Request should bring on the pod Email me at g Thomas at SF chronicle dot com. While blessed is part of the San Francisco, Chronicle podcast network, find a sense. Subscribe on apple podcasts. And if you like us, please throw us a rating in a review. Our music today is a track called fuzzy intrude by the minivan does. And it comes courtesy of the YouTube audio library. See you next time.
Where Does Golden State Rank Among NBA Dynasties?
"I'm Peter Hart, LA your concierge for culture in the bay area. The big event is a podcast, so local and fun and random that we've interviewed Jerry Rice and jello Biafra and recorded two episodes paying tribute to Britos download the big event today. Welcome to the sixty eighth episode of warriors awkward. The San Francisco, Chronicle's NBA podcast, I'm your host, whereas beat Radyr Connor la- turnout. And the Dan, joined by sports columnists got author, Scott will be in Toronto with in Killington. I for games one and two of the NBA finals earlier this week, Scott sat down with me to preview the finals breakdown. Golden State's place in the hierarchy of modern NBA dynasties, we'll have our conversation right after the break. This week on not your century evil knievel, the birth of GMO food. The first Indy five hundred the British invasion. I'm king Kaufman. Join me every weekday. It's like history class, but fun and only five minutes, not your century wherever you get your podcasts. When Sunday afternoon, Scott author sat down with me at my apartment to preview the NBA finals. It's an off day. The warriors have a rare off-day before the finals have been practicing past couple of days. They have the day off, they're turning to practice tomorrow. Possibly practicing teased it or not one hundred percent. Sure. And then flying to Toronto Scott will be with me. I think we're on the same flight Air Canada direct from SF ODA Toronto Tuesday morning. And then we'll be in Toronto for games one and two with an Killian, our colleague should be a lot of fun. What you know what just first of all, before we get into pontificating about the warriors legacy and what a third straight title fourth and five years would mean for this franchise long-term. What are your initial thoughts about Toronto, and what do you what do you think about their chances of really pushing the warriors in the seven game series? Well. They're pretty good. They, they just knocked off the team with the best record in in basketball and a team that put him up to was up two nothing in conference finals. So that was pretty impressive, and obviously a gamer team, you know, co is just playing at such a high level, and they kept talking on TV while he's going to be tired. You didn't get tired is sort of like Klay Thompson. Maybe does get tired. We didn't show because he always comes up big. He kept coming up big in the fourth quarter and everything. So I think it's going to be a worthy opponent. I think it's going to be great a lot of interesting elements because it's the first time the wars of traveled to open the finals in their, this five-year run. I think it's going to be a great test. I think it's gonna be fabulous. And by the way, if people knew what high level warrior thinking was going on now on your little apartment here in Alameda. They'd be amazed. And also, thanks for the beer, opened this up with from no problem, cli-, Leonard to me is so impressive on a lot of levels, but does his. Competitive desire. I mean, I liked the Klay Thompson comparison in the sense that they're two of the most competitive guys in the league and they don't necessarily show it in a lot of ways they don't they don't celebrate. Or freak out and they're not as demonstrative, as, as Draymond green. But just the way he stepped up in those critical moments in the Eastern Conference finals was breathtaking to watch, and he put that team on his back Toronto in my opinion might be the most complete roster in the league. They don't have any holes. They have a great supporting cast. They have a legit center really too legit centers in surge Abakan market soul. They have a solid number two guy. In Kyle Lowry. They have a player who I think, is going to be an absolute stud for years to come probably most improved player of the year front runner, and pass Calcio com. They have maybe the best backup point guard in the league and Fred vanfleet. They have some really good young guys owed. Gee, I really like. Oh, gee. Didn't do as much as I thought he would. But he's a solid piece going forward. But all that being said, it's still quite team. And when push came to shove, he put that team on his back. It was it was the site of boat whether he is interesting about quiet. I think is that when he left the Spurs, there might have been some people because you've such a Spurs guy in. He was such a one of the classic Spurs guys they kind of find somebody that nobody expected to be as great as it was. And they allowed him to flower and blossom and everything while that's pretty flowery poetic. But I think there are a lot of people that weren't sure if he was in the transition to moving over from such a team team like San Antonio has always been to Toronto where he's going to be more like the not a one man show, but more of the take the ball and give us thirty points a game. And he's changed at this different role for him, but I think he's embraced it. And he's he's phenomenal. He's and it's also interesting. You said you were guy because, you know you. Compared to the clay, and they're both kind of quiet and all that stuff. But the one thing about clay is that when you get him talking and some interviews he's great. You know, he's a very quotable interesting guy, he has funny. Thanks to say half the time you when he does his little interview sessions. He says something. Wow. That's funny with quiet. You don't get that with quiets like my God. Is there anybody home here? But he gets a basketball on his hands. It's fantastic. Yeah. And I think it's going to be a fun series. I think we're selfishly happy because we're going to Toronto in June, which I've always heard is awesome. Nothing against Milwaukee, but I'm a big Canada fan and a big Toronto fan. So I'm I'm happy to to go to that city for few days. But I think it's gonna be cool to just because this team means so much not just Toronto. But Canada, he they're really Canada's team released since big Hoover Vancouver, Grizzlies moved to Memphis years back. And this is the first time the finals will ever be in Canada. This is a franchise. The tattoo couple of good teams over the years. But until until this year couldn't get over the hump they hadn't even made the conference finals until a couple years ago. And so this, this is a longtime coming for them. And, and I think I think that they have enough talent till at least make it interesting. Now obviously the big question is Kevin Durant. He's officially unlikely for game one. I can tell you right now. He will not be planning game one. That's just. Obvious. The guy hasn't been cleared for any on count on court work, and, you know, the process Scott, you, you need to be cleared for on-court work, then which is basically light shooting and things like that conditioning. Then you need to be cleared for non contact stuff. Then you need to be clear for contact stuff before you're ever even going to sniff the court in an NBA game. So he has a lot of work to do to get on the court and he's not gonna play him one. I can almost guarantee you. He's not gonna play game two best case scenario. They're looking at game three but that even seems like a long shot right now. What do you think about the ways chances hypothetically? If Durant doesn't play at all of this, their chances are still great. I think one area would hurt him as on defense. Because is you know he's not on that all defensive first team. Or anything like that, or he was acting, I guess. But he's, he's a good defender. He's a good rim. Rim protector. He's a smart player and, and he's long and he, he can take a turn on qui-. And I think that that's where they're going to miss him. I think it'd be interesting. What if let's here's a hypothetical for you. Let's say the warriors get up to two or three. Oh, and Durant is maybe as he is he quite ready to come back. We're not sure is he gonna wanna come back if they're up two or three oh? And with the chance of number one that he could they could lose a game and then it'd be all the drink comes back in the lose. And also that what if he comes back and, you know? Guts it out? Plays kind of not fully healed and reinjured himself going into possible free agency and, you know, maybe hurts us future. So that's another factor right now. It's, it's an interesting factor for sure, I honestly think that they should win regardless. But I agree with you, that it would help to have Durant, not just. Not just defensively. I do think he's he'd be a good option on Kawai. I think the good thing for the warriors that they have a couple of options on quiet. I don't think I ever gonna stop Guay. But I think the warriors have as many options as as any team in the league they have Katie if he's healthy. They have Klay Thompson. They have under a dollar. They have dream on if they need him though. I do think they'll probably put dream on more on Paschal them. But I think we're they really need or could use Durant, and knows how catch myself there, 'cause I don't think the warriors need Durant. Which sounds crazy. I don't think they need him. I think the past couple weeks have shown that. But I think they could benefit from having them, and especially offensively the war. The, the raptors are really good defensively. They had the fifth best, I believe defensive rating the regular season I think they were topped two with Milwaukee in the playoffs entering the Eastern Conference finals, and so they can shut you down. And there's gonna be times where if their stagnating they might need an offense bail out. And that's obviously what Durant provides that being said, I the warriors are still favored heavily to win the series even without him. And I think they should be given their pedigree given how well they've been playing given that Steph curry is on one right now. You're writing today about what these finals mean for Steph Curry's legacy, and I don't want to give too much. Before you started comes out. But what, what, what do you think is the significance of these finals? For one thing, it probably shouldn't matter what he doesn't a series average three points a game, and they should still be considered one of the greatest players of all time. But the fact is that the one thing he hasn't done is been named he's been four straight finals right in this abuse fifth. He has never been named MVP of the finals net. That's kind of a big deal. And when people talk about legacies and stuff. That's one of the things that has to be mentioned right. You got to mention his unanimous in unanimous MVP back to back in VP's is great performances and all that stuff. But oh, okay. Isn't it? But he's never been on the final show. He's never been the guy. And I think that would just absolutely cement, his his legacy of viewer to pull that off. Of course, there's always the chance, though they win the thing he ever just they sweep Toronto, he ever just thirty seven points a game and dream on has great series dream on squeaks in with the MVP on the sympathy vote against but that probably won't happen. But the actually I thought curry should have been MVP of the last last year's finals, and I thought it was very close and drain had a great series, but I thought curry actually. Was more instrumental in, in a win last year. But regardless you gotta have that award. And if he gets this year, it'll be huge for him. I do think there's kind of a collective desire among media members to see curry get that because it is the one thing he's missing on his resume. And I think there are a lot of people like yourself who feel like he not got robbed last year. But that he at least had a strong case for it. And so I do think if he's even in the. Running for it. He'll probably win it because it he kinda deserves it. You know, the thing about finals MVP is, yeah, you're, you're, you're you win it for what you do in the series. But there is just a human element to it when there's voting you there is kind of a body of work, and I think the fact that he has done so much to help wears get to this point without Durant is only going to help his chances of winning the finals VP. And by the way, tell the folks how the vote comes down who votes. I know the voting is done in a hurry at the deciding game towards the end you might even have to have your ballot in before the end of the game. I'm not sure but tell people who votes and how it works. Yes. So there's like a there's a panel. There aren't that many people who vote, I believe it's like ten ten or less people who've and it's national media members and then one Representative from each media. Preach team. So two years ago, I was Representative for the warriors media, and I voted obviously for Durant. And the way they do it is they pass out. The pass out like a little a little piece of paper. Right. At the end of the clinching game you know, it's like, maybe midway through the third quarter and it's hard because, you know we're all jamming on deadline got running game stories. We also have to think about who were going to vote for, for finals the p but I remember last. So they switched it every year. So two years ago, it was me last year was Mark Medina from the Mercury News. I wouldn't be surprised if this year it was like Anthony Slater, or something from the athletic, but I was sitting right next to Mark and passed it to him. And he and I were kinda bathing over whether or not should be career Durant, because it was a real debate he ended up going with the rant, but, you know, I it's, it's kind of that, it's that on the flat. I mean it's literally like beginning of the fourth quarter into the third quarter of the deciding game. Game. And like I said, we're all busy writing and stuff. So you kind of need to have the hey of the barn in terms of your decision, probably at that point, you can't be like you can't be spending, like ten fifteen minutes pouring over that ballot. So, yeah, no, it'll be it'll be really interesting. But, you know from a from a Browder Lind's perspective, this finals is really interesting because as we've talked about before this summer is this upcoming summer is going to be the most important for agency period in franchise history. Nine free agents obviously, we all know about Durant Klay Thompson Demark's cousins, and then a bunch roll guys so much is going to change. And you know you don't know what's going to happen. You gotta think that the war is still going to be very competitive going forward. But this could be the last year that they're the prohibitive, you know title favorites. And so the question is, what does what would a third straight title and a fourth straight four title in five years. Mean for the warriors legacy, and where would that put them among the pantheon of modern dynasties now I say, modern dynasties, because I don't want to include the nineteen sixties Celtics in this conversation as I wrote a few days ago. Things were so different back, then it's so hard to compare. They there was no free agency. There were eight teams in the league when Bill Russell started out there were thirteen teams in the league when he finished. They pretty much just road Bill. Russell's career and then added some good you know compliments throughout his career, but it was just so different there, there you could a guy couldn't leave unless he was traded basically or cut. So it's so much harder to maintain the dynasty in the modern era in. So I, I want to focus on that. So the teams that should be in conversation here. Rider, nineteen nineties bulls. Showtime lakers. The one thousand nine hundred Celtics, the bird, Celtics, the Spurs late late nineties, early two thousand Spurs, and you can also maybe throw in the early two thousands Lakers, who were the last team to the three peat. So Scott, I know you don't have the numbers in front of you, but, you know you know the league as well as anyone you know the history of the league right now where do you think without having one third straight title yet, but knowing that they're entering their fifth straight finals? Where do you think the warriors rank among those dynasties today? Well off the top of my head. I'm going to say. I'm gonna say towards the bottom, I'm going to say they need this this title to, to Jack him up, maybe to the maybe one or two t one or two spot right now. That, that's how big this title would be San Antonio gets huge for lunch longevity. And, and for the fact, I think one way sent San Antonio's unique is their dynasty was, it was Tim Duncan centered but it wasn't just him Dunkin who was who was the Admiral before him. And when Tim Duncan was kind of winding down wasn't a dominant player was once before it was, I quiet Leonard. And so it was more of a, a whole team and organization and coached kind of thing whereas the other ones were more more so once per star magic and Jordan and so forth. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I actually full disclosure writing about this today. It'll be in our preview section. So I've done a little bit of research, and from what I can tell I feel like the warriors should be on par right now at the bird Celtics in terms of what they've accomplished. I think that if they win this title, they should they could maybe jump up a notch and beat in, in the same conversation as the Showtime Lakers. And I still think there are a couple years out from being in the same conversation as the bulls, the thing that you have to keep in mind, is that all these teams except for the early two thousand acres have had about an eight to nine year run, or they were contenders or be team. And so the warriors are still good three to four years away from having that longevity as dynasties are all about Jeb, but in terms of what they've accomplished in a five year span, I think it has impressive as anything that any other team has done outside of maybe the Showtime Lakers in the bulls, the bulls, as you know, on six thousand eight years, so they're not there yet. The bird Lakers inside the bird Celtics in the Showtime, Lakers, didn't really have to contend with free agency. I know the Oscar Robertson rule had been in effect. But in terms of actual unrestricted free agency. That wasn't the thing until nineteen Eighty-eight with Tom Chambers is, you know, going from Seattle to Phoenix in that really got the whole thing, the whole ball rolling because he had so much excess with Phoenix and and took him to conference. Finals is first year and that opened everyone's eyes to how this could be a real thing. And so that was after the, the Showtime Lakers in after the bird Celtics. So it's kind of a kind of is a different era in some respect. I, I know we've been talking about the modern dynasty, but we're talking modern modern dynasty. I'm not sure you can really include them, but for the sake of argument, we can keep them in the conversation. The one, the one team that's kinda hard to quantify my opinion is the Spurs because their big thing was. They were just so solid for so long. And so they didn't necessarily have like Ben dominant run. I mean they had several titles with. Unlike a seven year span, I believe who will from late nine thousand nine hundred early two thousands, but they weren't necessarily as dominant in a short burst as the bulls, or the, the ship time, Lakers or even these warriors, but the warriors are aspiring to be the Spurs, as they've said many times they wanna have the type of run that the Spurs had. They know that they're not going to win the title ever Europe. Be favored to win the title of the year. But they wanna be contenders and how cheap -able of a goal. Do you think that is for the work what for they going back to San Antonio? Just a minute. A couple of reasons. I think they deserve. Huge respect is one it San Antonio and people talk about destination teams of people want to go to and all that stuff. That's really low on the list, people used to say, Golden State on nobody wants to go to the state, but it wasn't because it wasn't a great town and stuff. So the fact that they were able to, to build it in that little small town. And also the fact that they sort of pioneered the whole. Getting foreign players. They, they mind that, that mine better that earlier better than any other team. So I think they deserve extra credit for that. And I'm sorry. What was your question again? Con just basically, you know how do you feel about their chances of, of achieving that goal of being the next burst? I think the chances are great. I think their chances of winning this series are great. And in terms of carrying on they have some huge a couple hit huge elements. They have Steve Kerr, who has been, I know there are some people out there who think he just rolls out the basketball's in and gives nice friendly chatty press conferences, it goes a whole lot deeper than that. So they have him, they have Steph curry, which is I even people close to this in follow it, I don't think fully appreciate not only what he does on the court what he does off the court, and what a kind of glue guy and what a character guy and what a bedrock of this franchise, he's been. And, and also they have. You know, the clay, they have dreamed on, who is now I'm thinking, they got to give them a max contract now after what he's done in a playoff, so if they bring him back that's a pretty. That's a pretty strong foundation of whether whatever, K D does probably would go. But they're how, how would you not like them going into next year with that foundation? Even if they lose say, Goodall, which is a big loss. I think they have enough in the tank or they have enough of a core to be relevant for at least another. Let's say four to five years, because staff is now thirty one clay's I think twenty nine dream on twenty eight so they have at least another four years to two factors in there. One is that I think we have to mention the ownership and management, Joe, like whatever you think about Joe. I don't know. Some people I can some people don't. He's, but he is he is willing to listen and absorb good basketball advice. I believe and he's reasonably knowledgeable in the game and knows how to run an organization and he's willing to spend the money. In other words, he's a good really, really top level NBA owner in terms of what you need. France. Just one quick example, Andre, etc. I think a lot of teams would let him walk last year when he when he when he when they renegotiate it when he was free agent that he is asking price was really ridiculous. It was crazy. And a lot of teams would have sent him. Sorry, you're great player. We love you, but that you're just out of your mind asking that cut that kind of money, and like a blinked, and then he said, okay, here's the checkbook, so I think that they have that going for him. Yeah. Which is part of why think there is a chance. Maybe they'll sign DRAM onto a max and the definitely gonna sign Klay max as they should. But. You know, I it's interesting because the what really separated Spurs, as you talked about was their ability to mind talent from overseas and find guys late in the draft because what's so hard to maintain a dynasty is when you're good. You don't have the lottery picks. You don't have the assets to, to accumulate those lottery picks. You know, you're not going to part with staff, the number one, pick in the draft here is not going to do that. So you have to be able to find value late in the draft. And it's so hard to do that. I mean if you look at if you look at the history of like the number twenty eight thirty picks which is kind of the range of the warriors are going to be drafting in long term. Almost no one good comes from his picks. I mean. I'm not saying it never happens. But the twenty eighth big which the warriors had last June. The only good player that's come from that pick in the past two decades. And by good, I mean, more than a robot is Tony Parker. And so people are giving Jacob Evans, a hard time because he's not playing and he looks like a bus ball by can you really be a bust to twenty eight? I mean even if he doesn't last past this contract, it's like a lot of guys in that spot. Don't last past that contract. I think the words of already gotten good value later in the draft. I mean you look at tavon looney at thirty a couple years ago people were saying, oh, that was a bad pick. That's looking like a pretty darn good pick or not thirty like he's a guy who Steve Kerr said is a cornerstone, the franchise wants to be long be around long term is going to be in the league at least ten to twelve years. I mean he's he's so solid. That's the type of guy, you want to get at thirty Damian Jones still has a lot of upside started a lot of games this year at thirty it's not about big Jordan bell thirty eight you know the way he's turned things around the playoffs. That's not a bad BIC at thirty. Eight obviously, we know dream, I was thirty five so if the warriors can continue to not necessarily, you know, get all these, you know, superstar guys, but get just solid complimentary guys who can play a spot in play a role in the rotation and get Affonso McKinney, guys. Yeah. Who was a guy who was not just undrafted, but he wasn't even like his name wasn't even in the draft pool, like he didn't even have a draft party. Like he went to his college teammate for Sykes who was a higher bigger prospect than him. He went to his party. So, yeah, finding unearthing gyms like that is going to be so key. And what they do eventually need to do is they need to hit on someone late in the draft who's going to be transcendent, which is what's really hard to do. Because what Spurs did is the hit on quite Leonard, at, like I forget what I think it was like sixteen was out of the lottery and Tecate on a guy like that. That's what they need to do to really keep this going on. It sounds easy. Yeah. Just find another dream on greener, quiet Leonard. Yeah. Easy. Right. Because that happens all the time. But that being said, one thing that was interesting about the east finals was if you look at the top players in the east finals. All of them were drafted outside the lottery. John was fifteenth pick a believe quite with sixteen or something like that mid first round. And then Paschal Siaka was late. I Marcus Seoul was second round collar, our believe late. I like literally all Fred vanfleet was not even drafted so doubt that to me, was a good example of you. You know, you can find so much valuate in the draft. It's not an exact science. And by the way, talking about the Eastern Conference finals wanting to struck me is because I probably haven't seen enough of Yoenis this season. I obviously read about him a lot and know about them, but seeing him over the series, you get a chance to see him more action and a high level of competition, and everything, and he is phenomenal. He's phenomenal. Athlete did some great things he was whatever twenty six and twelve rebounds or something like that. So you can't say head about series. But what one thing that struck me is that he is not Kevin Durant people compare Kevin Durant. And how many times did Janas attack the mental and get triple team to get tied up and yet and you don't see Katie doing this. Okay. D- right now. She's got what ten eleven years league. But he's not only just a smarter player than Janas. But in some ways, more graceful, and more more of a basketball player and Janas obviously has some growing to do. And can can bet get better? But I think a lot of people were thinking. Oh boy, honest as much better player than Durant. But to me, it's it's kind of the opposite, that it, it just gave me a deeper appreciation for Durant, not only his his smarts, but his just his physical ability amazing things. He does. Bob Myers, had a really good, quote at a kind of a seminar a couple months ago and he was talking about the difference between the playoffs in the regular season. And he basically said, they're not it's like not even the same sport. I mean it's just so different on so many levels. I think you should you should truly you should measure greatness. In the playoffs and what you're seeing with someone like Janas, he's going to be in VP. I think I'm almost sure he's going to be in VP because he had a phenomenal regular season. Let them to the best record in the league. I think he deserves MVP because it technically is a regular season award, but you see in the playoffs how much he still has to improve. I mean he's too one dimensional I think to try to take his team to a title right now because when he goes up against someone like Hawaii is a basketball savant phenomenal defender, he can zero in on Yana strengths and stop him. And what makes Durant so impossible's a drank do at all. He can hit threes can hit the mid range. He can hit he can dunk. Mean he, he can do it all. Yes. The fadeaway. That fadeaway jumper. That's literally impossible to defend and Jaanus doesn't have as many dimensions. I mean he's way younger I think, he'll, he'll improve he'll add, I'm sure this summer, he's gonna go, he's going to go into the offseason very motivated in pry at a couple of wrinkles to his game, but he's going to need to, to truly be one of the greatest players of all time. Yeah. Well, Katie is just again, it was reinforced by watching on us. Katie is just the one of the ultimate ballet guys just the grace and the moves. He hasn't a the feel for the game is just it's incredible. And you know, we're going to miss him again. He might be the luxury the team, you might be a luxury rather than as necessity on this team, but is phenomenal to watch. It's great to watch action. It's gonna be it's gonna be a lot of fun in Toronto. I'm not sure if any listeners have a ton of experience in Toronto, do, please shoot us restaurant, Rex or Barak or just your favorite haunts. We're going to be there for a few days, I have only been to Toronto three times, and every time was in February or in the in the heart of the winter when it was, like, minus ten to fifteen degrees. And so I've enjoyed what I'm experienced in Toronto, but I haven't actually gotten a chance to fully experience it because it's been so darn cold. So I'm looking forward to actually being there in June. And it'll be nice, and we can actually go experience it a little bit. So please shoot us all your racks, but as always stay locked and loaded SF chronicle dot com. Scott has been doing great work and has been doing great work. We've also gotten a lot of help from Ron Croix, check resi Simmons have been really proud the work that we have done. So please, please read us, and we will be there in Toronto, providing all of your finals needs. And by the way, if you happen to see us on the plane, if you're on the plane, the Toronto feel free to send us to drink. I wanna thank Scott officer for joining me on the podcasts. It's always fun. Chatting warriors with him. Where's of course? Part of the San Francisco, Chronicle podcast network, Audrey Cooper is editor in chief, if you like the show, we'd love it if you subscribe to it where ever you get your podcast. If you got a minute to give us quick review that helps us build our audience, so we can keep growing follow me on Twitter at Khan underscore crown and Email me at Seila turnover at SF chronicle dot com. Support wears off court and a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle their print in digital editions. Find out more at SF chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
John Delaney? For president?
"Welcome to. It's all political. The San Francisco Chronicle's political podcast. I'm Joe gear fully the chronicle senior political writer and today in the podcast. We are talking to a presidential candidate, John Delaney. I know what you're thinking who the hell is John Delaney. And that's sad. Because he's a former Maryland congressman who's been running for president since July twenty eight twenty seventeen two years, and he's still only one percent of pulse. He's working on. He's already visited ninety nine counties in Iowa. Former CEO's very wealthy guys worth more in about ninety two million dollars. But he's also the son of a union electric. So he's actually lived in the real world, and he's much more of a centrist than the one of the other candidates. He doesn't support Medicare for all the green new deal. We'll talk to him about that. And we also talked to him about how he owns his white privilege, John Delaney next on it's all political. Hi, I'm king Kaufman. And shoots yours. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story. And then we'll return you to your. Congressman, John Delaney. Welcome to it's all political live here in San Francisco. So great to be here. Thanks for having me. So you're the first democrat to announce and this is like an July twenty eighth seventeen. I thought I would clear the field. I thought it was gonna be fifty people. It's only. And if already traveled to ninety nine counties, and I will. Look at the polls still only one percent. Yes. I think maybe people just listening to this. They're gonna have this question who the hell, John Delaney and Wisey running for presence and give us give us a quick. Your quick elevator pitch. So the reason I'm running for president is actually pretty straightforward, which is I think we need new ideas. And we need someone to bring this country together to really address the issues we have for decades we've been too busy fighting, and we haven't spent enough time doing the world's changed incredibly fast. You see that more here than anywhere probably in the country and huge parts of our country have been left behind B's. We haven't effectively prepared them in our country for a period of tremendous change. So I'm running for president to be the person to bring this country together to talk about some really new ideas that need to be part of our public policy debate in this country to solve problems affecting everyday Americans into allow us to rethink our future. So let's review you come for the business world nineteen Ninety-three founded the coupon company called healthcare financial. Partners that lent money to nursing homes doctors and three years later, you took it public, and you became the youngest CEO and the history of the new York Stock Exchange at thirty two right income inequality such bigger issues issue, particularly the pay disparity between CEO's and workers in California's actually legislation just propose yesterday about that. Would you do to close that gap? Well, I would change our tax policy, and I would update our social programs so on the tax policy front. I would double something called the earned income tax credit, which is the most successfully poverty program, we have in this country puts money right in the pockets of hardworking Americans. I would do that. I would make more investments in public education, particularly for early childhood, and you create universal pre K and X dramatically. Expands. Your two three I would change somewhere tax policy, particularly around capital gains. I think we don't need a differential rate between capital gains, ordinary income. We don't need an incentive for people to invest. Right, everyone with resources investing everything they can that's an outdated mode in the biggest leakage in our tax code right now. And it allows people who invest for a living to affectively pay half the tax as people who work for a living. I'd create a form of universal health care system. Because I think that's really dragging a lot of Americans down in limiting their economic mobility, many Americans are shackle to their jobs because of their healthcare. So those are some of the things I would do, but you know, in the long term we have to fundamentally improve public education. We have to make sure jobs are created in lots of places in this country. Because one of the issues that we have in this country is last year eighty percent of the venture capital was invested in fifty counties in this country out of three thousand one hundred right here. Lot of it right here. Yeah. It was really here, Los Angeles, New York and Boston. And yet, you go to places like, you know, the ninety nine counties have into an Iowa and the number one question, you get from people is will there be jobs in these communities? So we need affirmative policies to encourage investments. In other parts of this country when needed national infrastructure program, we got a double ear tax credit. We gotta pay for these things by getting rid of this loophole where investors pay half of what workers do in capital gains, and you fundamentally have to improve public education to produce better outcomes. If you ever want to narrow this GOP across the long-term, and you're a wealthy guy personnel over ninety million dollars. But you you grew up your dad was a unilateral. Yeah. I college the first thing family, how did how did that shape? You your perspectives at that point? Well, it, you know, I come from a I come from a working class family. My dad, isn't electricity. I mean, he put a work boots and jeans every day. Right. So I grew up around people who really work for a living every day. And so it's it's made me appreciate the dignity of work in the importance of someone having a job where they can support their family and get meaning and purpose out of that. But it also reminded me that we all need a helping hand. I mean, I got a great education at Columbia University, my dad's a union paid for half of that tuition. So w Scott IB. W scholarship, and you know, the way I think about it is but for a bunch of electrons throwing some money and a hat every week to give one of their own scholarship. I would've never had the opportunity I've had so all these people walk around saying, I did it on my own. It's just a bunch of garbage. Right. We all need a helping hand along the way. And I think there's a role for society to to make sure people have the kind of opportunities. I've had I mean, this is the first generation of American junk people that are the first generation of Americans will not do better than their parents are that's never happened our country. But that's because it's so tough for so many people, and you know, I think it's pretty simple. We haven't updated the basic, social compact, you know, the things people need to have Sean world. You are lets the rest of the democratic field. Maybe not the rest of it. But sort of the more high profile members of yes, sprinting to the left on a few issues. And fact, you know, Marcus malate sus, the head of the daily coast blog told me that couple months back that the price of admission is is supporting Medicare for all you do not support Medicare for all and the debut recording. This Bernie Sanders is reintroduced his Medicare for all Bill into the Senate. You said that it was you said you oppose it, you said eliminating private insurance will decrease access and quality in healthcare and doom any chance of creating a universal health care system yet. It remains the type of talking point that may sound good, but his bad policy Americans don't wanna healthcare system that bans insurance a brain private insurance and soli is government based they want options, and they don't want a system based. Solely on low levels of reimbursement. And then you say, you're you have your own plant. Yes. So I with the different. I absolutely. I think universal health care is a right of every American right? I think everyone should have healthcare. Right. It's a basic human, right? We can clearly afford it in my plan that I will describe in a second does that I'll tell you. Why don't like Medicare fraud because Medicare for all is a way of creating universal health? Right. Don't think it's the right way and have to issues with at first Medicaid in Medicare, which are the two largest programs for healthcare in this country. They don't pay cost Medicaid pays eighty percent of cost Medicare pays ninety five percent of cost commercial insurance pays one hundred fifteen to one hundred twenty percent cost. So we have fifty years of evidence to suggest that if the government's the only pair it will never pay cost. So I believe if the government was the only pear going forward. They would again never pay cost and that would result. In more limited access and lower quality in healthcare be issued have less people investing in the healthcare system with fewer doctors were villa Bill. Doctors in rural areas, I traveled rule Iowa last week. And I talked to a lot of people run rural hospitals, and I said what would happen if last year all of the payments received group commercial insurance where paid it Medicare rates in every one of them said we would close. And so there in lies my problem with kind of this ideological the government needs to pay all the bills, right? There's no evidence that the political system unless we're willing to bet that the political system will entirely change and suddenly start paying healthy reimbursement. Rates which is very hard to do with budget pressures. I think it's a bad fundamental kind of approach the other issue. You know, healthcare, many ways is like congress. If you ask your average American how they feel about the congress the United States. They're like, I hate it. But if you ask them about their member of congress, you know, what I'm about to say they like it. Yes. This former member of congress right commercial insurance. Most people think the healthcare system is screw in this country. Right. And the right. But if you ask them about their. Like if I were to say to you. How's your health care plan at the chronicle? You know, I I don't know what you'd say. I bet you might say, you know, it's not so bad. It's pretty good. So I don't see why the democrat party wants to run around saying we're gonna take everyone's healthcare away from them. So what I would do is leave Medicare alone created new system from when you're born to your sixty five the you get as a write a basic government plan. You don't have to pay for its free. But if you don't want it you can opt out you can get a small tax credit, go buy your own healthcare, or you can do what I think most people would do which is to buy supplementals just like folks with Medicare one of the reasons Medicare work, so well is people get basic government plan. And then they have all these options for the supplemental plans most Medicare beneficiaries, and I think what would happen you work at the chronicle. You'd have your basic government plan you Chope at the chronicle. The chronicle would say, you know, we'd like our employees to have some more options we've negotiated a group supplemental plan, and you can opt into that. If you want right to improve your basic. So I call that a mixed model you have a government backbone plants. Everyone has it as a right? So everyone would be cover every single engine be free. And how would you pay for that pay for that? In my plans fully paid for by taking away the corporate deductability of healthcare, which is a four trillion dollars tax loophole because the way it works right now when a company gives you healthcare, you don't pay the tax on the benefit, and they get to deduct the cost wouldn't that make companies less likely to give me a robust benefits because nobody you would show up with your government plan, which would affectively cover your major medical which is the biggest part of your healthcare. Right. And then you'd have the supplemental that they would negotiate for you, which you would then opt into this lower costs. Yes. Because I think because right now what a lot of people don't realize is we have universal healthcare in this country. It's just it's called the emerging by law. If you show up an emergency room, you have to get taken care of. That's the dumbest form of universal healthcare. And so there's a tremendous amount of waste in the system because of you know, people having preventative care people going to most expensive point of care in the system. I think is part of this universal plan. I'm rolling out. Most people would have the government plan for their major medical that would be a more efficient plan to administer similar to Medicare is. So I think you get some of the benefits around cost savings that people who are advocating for a single payer, but you don't give up the optionality that the American people fundamentally want, and you also make sure that there's more money invested in healthcare to continue to improve quality access. Another thing that may the progressives in the race are supporting as the green new deal, and you you're not a fan of this. You've said the green new deal. This is you talking congressman the green new deal as it has been proposed as about as realistic as Trump saying that Mexico's gonna pay for the wall. Let's focus on what's possible. Not what's impossible, and you're proposing a carbon taxes at one of many things, but isn't that sort of incremental change? We're we're being told that the planets get, you know, we're we're almost at the breaking point isn't that kind of tinkering around the edges big because first of all it's not incremental because right now like we have no government policy wrong climate and climate tax would be a massive shift in how people think about energy the Bill that I introduced on a bipartisan basis, and again, it was the only bipartisan climate Bill or certainly carbon tax Bill in congress. And and I let it put a price on carbon. It it which is a tax takes all the money and gives it right back to the American people. So it goes out one pocket in the other. But in the meantime, it changes behavior dramatically Columbia University model that it would lower greenhouse gas emissions by ninety percent. I believe I can get that passed in my first year as president with every single democrat in the congress and all the Republicans who live. In coastal states because they have to do something on climate. Maybe Joni Ernst in Grassley from Iowa won't vote for carbon tax. But Marco Rubio, and Rick Scott will because they're from Florida and they have to. Okay. That's the first thing. I do the second thing. I would do is. I would increase the department of energy research budget, by fivefold, we spend six billion dollars a year on clean energy. We should spend thirty. We need a moonshot around storage and transmission technologies because unless we have new storage technologies we can't get to net zero in the third thing. I would do which is the most unique thing, and I think would resonate actually quite well out here is out create a market for something called negative emissions technologies. These machines that exist that actually suck carbon atmosphere. The problem is they're subscale in there too expensive. But that's a problem we can solve we create a market for it. Just like we did for wind and solar twenty years ago. We were sitting here people wind and solar stew expensive. We created a tax credit market prices have fallen dramatically. I wanna take the five billion a year that we give in tax credits to fossil. Oh, fuel companies which is fifty billion over ten years, and I want to create a market for the government to buy carbon from the lowest cost producers every year, and that will drive a wave of innovation taking these existing technologies that actually work and will create an industry that I believe will suck twenty percent of the carbon out of the atmosphere unless we do that we will never get to net zero why because China and India opened a coal power plant every single week and Africa, probably, you know, more than that. So the United States America, I believe has to fundamentally innovate ourselves out of this problem and in so doing we'll save the world. So my carbon-tax puts a brake on on climate change slows it down. And then I unleash a wave of innovation to actually create the technologies that save us, and that's a realistic. And actually, it's very consistent with the American way of solving problems. And that was an being an entrepreneur yourself where you come. It's your perspective. Twenty teen another. Year of the woman, and in the political world much has been made about the number of female people's color running this year, and for those who may be coming to the John Delaney world in the first time and hearing his voice, he is a white, dude. Just like a couple of bald white guys talking on the podcast right now signs. His I always I always prefer it that way. The the other day you re released the series of policy proposed proposals called the commitment to black America was very robust more than a dozen proposals in their everything from ending cash. The cash bail system, and creating nonprofit banks to increase the access to capital to improving low income school. So I wanna hear you flush that out in a second. But first of all Amy Allison was my guest here. The other day singing that very chair she's gonna be hosting a a policy or a a candidate form on April twenty four th in Houston, that's focused on the issues of women in women. Caller. And we were talking about how white candidates should whether it be Biden her bed or whoever own their privilege. How'd you own your white privilege? Well, I'll tell you how I think about it. So it really hit me a couple years ago. I was sitting in my one of my committee's join economic committee and a report came out it was somewhat of an obscure report, it was titled economic conditions of African Americans the United States, and it was jointly authored by the joint economic committee. Congressional blackhawks. And there's statistic at that really struck me. And it said that if you're white and you were born in the bottom core tile of the economic continuum, which I was the chances of you making it to the top core tile, which now I am is four times greater than that of an African American. And there was a lot of terrible statistics in this report. How wealth and incomes and healthcare disparities exist between whites and African Americans. But this one really struck home to me because I read it in. I because I was reading my story. And I have this kind of American dream story. Right. Let's face it. Right. Blue-collar kid. I go to college youngest see on the history near excite exchange serving in the congress. And people always say, we'll, wow, that's great. And I read that thing. And I said we'll fundamentally yet may be great. I worked hard I play by the rules. I had a lot of breaks. But it was a lot easier for me. Four times as easier four times easier, and I suddenly didn't feel quite as good about it. So that's what really made me focus on this notion of opportunity. Because unless we create the opportunities for the kind of upward mobility than we're just continue to lock in disparities, which is why really at the end of the day. We gotta fix how fun public education because it is the thing that actually prevents this from ever being broken. It is the most injust way we fund public schools in this. I noticed it in a lot of your the parts of your plan or not question. Yeah. Yeah. That's the part of it in but going back to your plan your commitment to black America. And a lot of those things and they're not like you get four hundred bucks a month. Lightner bucks a month? They're more mortem incentive based, and and and and talk a little bit about it. So it, you know, so I want to address public education funding, which is hard to do, you know, obviously, it's funded locally based on property taxes. That's the main way we funded. It's going to be hard to change a lot of that. But I think the government has a role. I think the government really has a role is an early childhood because the real disparities exist early childhood, you know, poor kids start kindergarten heaven having heard one third the words. Of more upper middle class or affluent kids, meaning they start so far behind the almost never catch on. You're you're saying the same thing. Our governor new Psomas, that's is is he preaches the same. Yes. And so what we really need and the real opportunity for the federal government because the president. So I'm running the federal government is in early childhood in pre K because that is not a well formulated part of our public education system at this point, meaning K through twelve you know, we you know, that that that exists. It's basic public education. It's run by the states, and you know, local communities, and there's a lot of things I wanna do to improve that. But really where the opportunity is is in zero to three for four kids and universal pre-k for everyone else. That's where there's a lot of opportunity. I think for the federal government actually establish real early childhood pre K program as a right of citizenship. And I think that would really change a lot of these issues. Ms is you gotta do. But in terms of something that I think could really move the needle and change a generation. I think that would be we I want to create incubators in historically black colleges. I wanna create you know, career and technical training options. The whole bunch of other things I wanna do. But really in terms is hearing one thing for the Delaney for president campaign to take off you have to hit that debate stage. It's key. And the one of the thresholds is sixty five thousand donors from twenty states. How how close are there you getting there? We're getting there. But that's one of the criteria. The other criterias to have a certain one percent three polls. We've made to of of the three so far. So we we think we'll get it there. You get in the polls I do because we're not only getting one percent, which doesn't sound like a lot. No. But when Bernie and Biden and undecided, take sixty sixty five the other seventeen of us are fighting on thirty five at this point. Yes show. It's a it's a little more than people think you have a talk about your your. You're you're all of those polls. And there'll be several more women, you think gonna make. So you have a very interesting, shall we say offer debate the debate challenge, right? You will personally donate two dollars to nonprofits and charities for everyone from your own cash from your own pocket to as part of the for people who donate to campus. So let me tell you where that came from. And it'll explain the motivation. So when the sixty five thousand solar, I'll donors came might might sitter sat around with me and said, okay, we got a lot of ways to to get there. And I said, okay, great. And they said you have to do it all the other candidates are doing which is advertise like crazy on Facebook. And everything else I heard two hundred grand of digital advertising, you can basically get sixty five thousand dollars. Yeah. So what I yeah. The bay. So what I said. Well, that's interesting. I gotta spend two dollars to raise a dollar, and I have to give it to digital marketing firms who send out ads saying how the sky's falling. And everything is terrible. Please give me a dollar to save the world, which I've never liked those messages, quite frankly, because I think they're highly device there. And so I sit wait. Okay. We have to do that. But why don't we also throw out there that I'll give two dollars to charity for every dollar someone gives because I'll just feel a little better about that. So it was actually the same kind of economic property. But I would say heck if I can get half of them that way nothing against you'll marketing firms if you're out there, I'm not trying to pick. But I would just feel a little better giving some of that money to the environmental defense fund. There you go. So your campaign slogan is truth for a change slogan. Okay. Does a tagline on your Mercer Marshall? Yeah. Which is really it said that the tagline giving given the spot where we're in right now, we're presidents President Trump is made more than nine thousand false for misleading claims since taking office, according to Washington whole new industry track. It has does he hasn't created jobs industry faction? But but you say the same time Democrats should not focus on Trump nights. Drew, and I didn't mention Trump weighs truth for you. Did not know how do Democrats get back the working class voters? The folks who you're like your dad. I know maybe he was a, you know. Oh, don't okay at union. North jersey. If you're in a construction trade union. Yeah. Okay. There you go. I don't think they knew that. There was only one party, right? Push that d-. How do you get back? Those those Trump voters by talking to them about the things that matter to them right at the end of the day like this, you know, one of the issues I have with my Democratic Party. I love so much is where oftentimes thousand flowers blooming. We got a lot of things we care about. But at the end of the day in a world where fifty percent of the American people can't afford five hundred dollars. Right. If you wanna actually talk to those people you gotta talk about their job. They're pay the opportunities for their kids what's going on their kid's classrooms and their healthcare. So if you're not talking about one of those five things, it's a missed opportunity. And that's how you get it back. You know, they're not asking for that much. They're just asking for responsible government that actually gets a few things done that actually help them out. That's it. John delaney. Thank you so much for coming to be here. I'd like to thank you all for listening. I'd like to think congressman Delaney for coming in here to our podcast studio in San Francisco to record today's podcast. I'd like to thank the king. King kaufman. For producing today's podcast, this podcast was produced by royalty. And remember, even if nobody knows who the hell you are. It's all political. It's all political is part of the seven Cisco chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper's the editor in chief. If you like this show, we'd love it. If you'd subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast, and if you've got a minute to give us a quick review that helps us build our audience. So we can keep growing. Follow me on Twitter at Joe Geir, Foley, gaol G A R O F O L I or can Email me at J air Foley at SF chronicle dot com support it's all political and a lot of great journalism with the subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle there are print and digital editions. Find out more at SF, chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
Climbing Everest with Roxanne Vogel
"I'm Peter Hart, LA your concierge for culture in the bay area. The big event is a podcast, so local and fun and random that we've interviewed Jerry Rice and jello Biafra and recorded two episodes paying tribute to Britos download the big event today. Welcome to the wild west podcast where today. I'm very excited to welcome. My guests newly minted Mount Everest climber, Roxanne, Vogel, Roxanne works in Berkeley at GU energy labs, which makes those pouches of energy jealousy, marathon runners gulping down during races. She's the nutrition and performance research manager there. And she recently got back from Tabet where she set a record for climbing to the summit of Mount Everest in just fourteen days, that super-quick Everest is, of course, the highest mountain in the world. It's taller than twenty nine thousand feet, and so getting up and down in two weeks is pretty much unheard of it takes most climbers who go on guided trips sixty to seventy days to do it. And that's because they have to acclimatise to being at those high altitudes, and they go in larger groups and they travel more popular more popular route, but Roxanne didn't do any of that. Instead. She acclimatized at home in the bay area, using a high pox tent, basically, it's. A big airtight chamber that simulates, those low oxygen levels at higher altitudes for three months leading up to her climb Roxanne slept in this tent at home for eight hours a night, and then she also worked inside a tent at her office. She described it as like living inside a fish bowl. So that preparation meant that in may. When the weather forecast for Everest looked favourable. She flew straight to debate and was able to literally hit the ground running without having to take long breaks to acclimatise during her climb up. The mountain Roxanne is an ultra marathon runner. She's a physiologist and she's a festivus dietitian. She calls herself science nerd, so she's the perfect person to talk to you to understand how human being is capable of pulling off this incredible feat and what it took to do it. I have this personality where it's like, well, if I can accomplish this. Let's see what else we can do. And so the obvious progression of that was, you can end up climbing Mount Everest at some point in part of the seven summits, the highest mountain in the world. Let's see if we can do it while she was climbing Roxanne outfitted herself with a bunch of where. Tech to monitor all of her vitals, and her body's physiology, and she's aiming to publish her findings later this year. It's going to tell us what affects this type of activity in this type of environment has on the human body, which we don't really understand. So she and I covered everything about how she prepared for this climb from her training, which involved flying to South America to climb remote mountains on weekends while away from work to crafting and energy food products. She calls the Everest bar to what good luck charm. She brought with her up the mountain, she's a fascinating personal. Listen to. And I hope he has enjoyed this one. We'll hear from Roxanne in just a moment. But first this brief message. Hi, I'm king Kaufman shoots. Your century, not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days, gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story and then we'll return you to yours. All right. We're back now under my conversation with Everest climber, Roxanne Vogel. Thanks for coming on the podcast Roxanne. It's good to have you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. You return from summoning Everest about three weeks ago. Is that right? A little less than that, but yeah, just over two weeks ago. How's it been? It's been kind of crazy. There have been you know, a lot of reporters reaching out, just because of the whole southside media interest. Right. So you know almost unrelated to what I did really because I climbed from the north and it was a totally different experience. So it's been interesting. And it's a you know, I was only gone for two weeks. So it feels like it was so fast. It almost feels like it doesn't happen. Yeah, it made me wonder, you know, people talk about how climbing Everest or climbing any mountain really can be this transformative experience. But when you, you know, condense all of that into like a two week of ent- just makes me wonder if you can get that same sort of whatever enlightenment, whatever it is from it. Yeah. And there's definitely part of me that was a little bit sad. That I didn't get to spend time in Tabet and just explore the country a little bit more, but, you know, this was something I really wanted to try a lot of it was because I was just curious from a physiology standpoint, I'm a big old nerd and, you know, the science behind it, fascinates me. And so I figured we're gonna make this a science project and it's not as much a personal project. So you know, I want to see if we can do it in the two weeks fan. But yeah, I feel like you do miss a little bit. You missile bit of the culture and the history. And just. You know, Tibet was close to foreigners for thirty years. So you couldn't even go there and to be able to get in and fly in this tiny provincial airport that nobody usually gets to fly into it was like, oh man. This is so cool. So you're not these last few weeks. Are you like buzzing? Have you had a little time to reflect what's the what's going through your head? It's been really strange being back. This was definitely the biggest project I've ever prepared for trained for and before I left I spent three months just sleeping in altitude tent and working in an altitude chamber. So hypoxia co partnered with us to provide these. But, you know, aside from that it was like a full year of build up to this project, and you get back from something like that. And all of a sudden you're just you're not on a schedule. You don't have certain workouts, you need to do or I don't have to sleep in a tent every night like it's weird not to have a tent on my bed. So it's been sorta weird I felt a little. Lost to be honest. It's hard for me to just kind of be in this. No man's land for right now. Yeah. Well, let's start at the beginning and back it up a little bit. Why everest? So I to be totally honest, I grew up in San Diego. I was a beach kid. I never went to the mountains. My family was not outdoorsy. And we went camping all of, maybe once when I was growing up, my mom used to say, oh, we'll go camp at the Marriott. So just to give a little background. I didn't really get into sort of the outdoor culture or any of that until college. I studied abroad in Peru for summer and did the track too much, peach, you and that was where I really had my first outdoor experience and fell in love with it, and so fast forward, a few years and two thousand twelve I ended up going to do the Everest base. Track. And it was funny. I was really young. I was going through divorce at the time and I was just like I'm gonna go find myself in the mountains, and I get to Nepal do the base camp track. And I'm sitting there looking at the Himalayas and Mount Everest, and I was just like I need to be climbing these things, right. Like, for some reason, just some cord was struck in me, and I was like I need to climb. And so I was supposed to go back this was during the summer, and I was supposed to go back and start grad school in the fall had a Floyd scholarship to East Carolina university. But instead of doing that I came back from Nepal and then moved to Colorado, so that I could be in the mountains and train and start climbing, and I started training for like Kilimanjaro. And then from there, I got this idea of the seven summits. And of course, Everest was still in the back of my mind. And it just kind of went from there. So I was just like well I'll do the next mountain and see how it goes. And then eventually. Ended up climbing Denali in two thousand sixteen and it's funny, you say ended up climbing to ever check into space camp ended up climbing Denali. Like these are pretty major feats for anybody to do like these could be like lifetime achievements for people in of themselves. Yes, I have this weird personality. It's just like how I started running. So I started with, like a five K, right? And then it was like, well, if I could do five I can do ten K. And then if I can do ten K I ended up doing alter marathons now, so I have this personality where it's like, well, if I can accomplish this. Let's see what else we can do. And so the obvious progression of that was well, you're going to end up climbing Mount Everest some pointed part of the seven summits. It's the highest mountain in the world. Let's see if we can do it, but beyond that it's also become part of work in part of the research. I want to do for my PHD so high physiology. Just fascinates me. Real quick. One seven summits. You know that's a great question. And I think it comes down to it. I was already kind of on that path. I had started climbing. Kilimanjaro and then I mean, climbing is loosely used, but and then I climbed Aachen Cagua, and so I'd already started this sort of collection. And I am also a person who likes to collect things. So it's like it made sense. I was like, well there, you know, two out of seven I might as well just keep going. And along the way of met some cool people and of course, on these trips, you meet a lot of others seven summitters and, you know, you just kind of get the bug I guess, and my good friend. Now, we met climbing up in the north cascades, Andrew, he lives up in Seattle. But so we've been on this mission together. So it's not just the seven summits, but it's also the seven highest volcanoes on e you know, the highs while Kane on each continent, and then maybe north and south pole. And so we just keep adding things to the list. And so it's just this ever-growing kind of creature so nice which ones. Do you have left of the seven summits? So now I just have an article which we're going to head down to in December. So mount Vinson. That's the last one and done. The other six I've done the other steps. Okay to be fully encompassing. There's there's two lists. So one list says that mount Kosciusko in Australia is the seven the summit down there. And then the other list says Carstensz pyramid in Indonesia, is the summit. So we did both just to be safe while. So it'll be eight total. But yes, all of them. Okay. When did you start doing them like when by the time you're done, what will the period of time? I, I was Kilimanjaro and that was twenty thirteen. So assuming we finish early twenty twenty I think we'll probably summit in very early January, you know, seven years. Okay. So it's. Yeah, it's not the fastest but it's as fast as I could feasibly get it done. Yeah. Yeah. So these hikes are in some sense, preparing you forever. Is that? Right. Right. So everything was kind of leading up to it. Especially you know, you look at something like Denali, and a lot of people will say or argue that it's harder than climbing Everest because you're out there for so long. It's like a three week trip, but you're carrying just a ton of weight. So you have a sled and a pack and it's probably, you know, at least one hundred pounds for me, it was like pulling my body weight, basically. And the weather can be really brutal up there temps that sort of thing, so, and I think that was really the turning point. We're in my mind it was like a flip was switched a switch was flipped. And I said, you know, if I could if I can climb Denali, and I felt really good and really strong. There's a chance I could actually climb Everest, and then it became real and that was, you know, three years. Before I actually did an summoning. So, I think it was that whole three years. I was really like okay we're going to make this happen. Yeah. How do you prepare for Everest? What did you do? Well, a lot of climbing mountains whenever I could. So I'd travel around and just try and get a bunch of high peaks, going down to South, America's usually pretty cost effective, and it's not so hard to get the time off. Because it's not as far I would go down to, like Mexico and climb volcanos there Ecuador climb volcanos there. And then I started dabbling with the hypoxia chamber and that was a game changer because then I could do these trips in, like a really condensed time. Not take so much time off work, and then be able to fit more trips in. So once I started doing that it was, like so much, opened up to me because I could go down for a weekend and climb eighteen nineteen twenty thousand foot peaks and it was no big deal and be back at work by Monday. So started playing with the hypoxia co whole system. So we have actually a chamber installed at my work at energy labs in Berkeley. So I'll you know get in there. And it goes up to about twelve thousand feet just work in there for hours or do workouts in there and things like that. Can you real quick? Can you describe this chamber to people like what it looks like what this, how this tent works? So the chamber at work is probably the size of, you know, like somebody's laundry room, or like a large closet, and it's enclosed in our gym space in this small kind of corridor that we have when you first walk in, but it's like clear sort of plexiglass. So it's almost like being in a fish bowl in the. Yeah. So it's just this little closet area. And I have a couple of standup desks that we put in there and we can fit a bike trainer in there. Sometimes we'll ride the bike. I bring my box in there and we vest, and I'll do step ups and things like that. But yes, just this little space where you can simulate high altitude. So there's that and then the tent at home goes over your bed, and again simulates altitude. But, you know, some people don't really like it. They feel a little claustrophobic. I actually miss it. I called Brian my friend, who's. CEO at hypoc psycho the other day. And I was like, Brian, I know I'm done training Forever's, but can I please have the ten pack like I really miss it. It's a, you know, get used to being kind of included in this small space, but it has a generator, and it can be a little noisy for some folks. And, you know, if you're married, or have a significant other, I suppose that would make it much different which I don't so, you know, but yeah, so that's kind of the tent and LT chamber system. The ten I try to sleep, you know, eight hours a night, and then at work, I would try and get an additional four hours. Just so I could say a majority of by day was spent it out, too. So it's like living in a bubble. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. What else are you doing to prepare mentally or physically or otherwise? So a lot of it was the actual physical training which, again I worked with coaches from uphill athlete, Seth and Scott Johnston. And so they had me since early December. And we trained all the way up until may when I left, but just a ton of volume a lot of aerobic endurance I already had, like a really solid aerobic base, because I spent the entire summer in two thousand eighteen just running ultramarathons trail races. Just like every three weeks, I was running some kind of race, you know, so by the time, they got to me, they were like, well, you know, you've got a great Rubik base really don't need you doing more than like, what you're kind of doing as far as aerobic endurance. So they introduced me to muscular endurance workouts, which basically trained my legs to be able to be really strong, but also really Durrant with we added to it. So a lot of Playa metric weight, vests type workouts we would do a lot of repeats on really steep slopes with a heavy pack. So carrying up to like sixty five pounds and I'd be going. I spent some time in mammoth, so I'd be booting up these cool ours in the snow. But just this Hugh. Huge pack which is more than half my body weight. So the training was huge. I spent you know upwards of twenty hours a week. So I think my highest volume training week was maybe like twenty four twenty five hours, just like a part time job. You know. And then nutrition obviously, so part of my job is, you know, telling athletes with to eat. So obviously for me I put myself on a strict diet. I was always kind of lower, carb higher fats, and high-protein before, so I maintain that, you know, I was eating a ton of vegetables every day for lunch. I'd have a giant salad that was like a pound, pound and a half a produce. And I did cut out alcohol entirely for like, the, you know, since January, I would say so that was a big change. And yeah, so just really focusing on ways to support my training load through like recovery nutrition of getting enough protein, making sure a really nutrient dense. It's you know, whatever it was. I was putting my mouth like it had some value or some benefit, right? So eating cruciferous, vegetables that help with your detoxification, enzymes eating, lots of polyphenol. Rich things like blueberries or kakapo. So, yes, I did have dark chocolate every night. But so since December there every single day I recorded everything that I ate. So I had like a food log, but you can go back and see every single day calories. Macro, what it was a like everything is documented, right? Scientists cool thirty and then you linked up with Lydia broadly. Right. Who's she's a mountain guide. But she's also the first woman to have summited Everest without supplemental oxygen right? Yeah. Lydia? Brady is Brady. Sorry. Yeah. No, she's a hero in my mind. And, you know, just such an amazing human effectively, she was in retirement from Everest is what I was told. And I was. Looking for a female guide that was important to me? And she was actually really excited to hear the I wanted to climb with her from the north because she had never climbed the north. And so I was so excited to talk to her. And she was excited to talk to me. So just ended up being like the perfect situation and we both got to experience the north side for the first time together. So which is into the south side is in Nepal. Sell side is the one that everybody takes basically the north side is fewer people attempted is that right? Right again about was close to three years for, for thirty years to foreigners and Nepal. Just in the meantime, had this whole Everest kind of infrastructure crop up. So it's historically been more accessible. It's a little easier to get permits, in the Paul and traditionally, well, it still is, it's just the weather can be a little bit harsher on the north side. So it's more exposed than the south. So they're higher winds. Cold temperatures can make it a bit more difficult. And then finally the most technical part of the climb on the north side is at the highest elevation. So on your summit day, you're basically going through the series of steps. So these rock, cliffs, that you have to scale, and there are some ladders, strung up in places, but there are a little bit sketchy and especially coming down backwards when you can't see your feet. So why the north side so? Originally. I was looking at the south and I knew I wanted to do a rapid style assent. And there are operated offering that on the south, they were offering trips anywhere in the range of maybe thirty five to forty five days which a traditional Everest expedition is about sixty to seventy days. And so that's rapid by you know, those standards. And I looked into those, and then I also had previously been in touch with Adrian. He is like the pioneer of doing rapid descents, and he perfected this technique on the north side. And that's the only place he operates. And so, you know, that was definitely something I wanted to look into because I knew he was just the best at doing this. So I reached out to him, and I remember we had this phone conversation. And I was like, oh, yeah. So you do a rapid ascent that's thirty five days that looks awesome. Tell me more, and he was like, yeah, we do the rapid. Bub-bubba but, you know, I'm also considering kind of looking for somebody to try a lightning ascent, which would be a fourteen days door to door. And you know, I think it can be done. No one's ever tried it. And we'll just kinda see maybe someone will do this year. And I was like, oh, yeah that's that's crazy like good luck, finding that person. And okay, I'll be in touch with you. So got off the phone. Let it marinate for a few days. And then, you know, the scientists in me just really was like I wonder if you can do that, and that would be so cool to collect data on this, and why couldn't I do that. I mean, I've been experimenting with these techniques. I could be that person. And so I called him back and it was like, all right. Adrian, what do you think about me, can I do it? And he was like, yeah. Absolutely. You've been practicing on these high volcanoes like you've done this. You you're a big nerd, you'll record all the data like absolutely. And so it just kind of went from there. And everything came together. And so, what are the pros and cons of these lightning ascents, you're doing them way quicker, which in some ways, makes it safer or could make a safer climb in other ways, maybe less safe? I'm just wondering what the how you reconcile that. Yeah. I think the main benefit is one you are spending less time on the mountain. So you're exposed to fewer fewer germs. You're not out there as long with subpar hygiene or subpart nutrition. So you kind of stay stronger. You're not hanging out as long at these really high elevations, which the human body is not meant to survive above, like fourteen thousand feet for a very long amount of time. And so once you're there, you're basically just getting weaker. Right. So you spend weeks on a mountain in the case of ever is people are there for six seven eight weeks. You're just getting weaker. You're losing muscle mass. You're losing total mass, you know, you're more susceptible to illness and it's just it's almost like you're asking to get sick and most people do at some point. And so I think voiding all of that is huge. I felt amazing like the entire time I was there. I've never. I felt like I was weak. I didn't lose any mass. I didn't lose any muscle mass. I actually measured this before and after obviously because that's what I do. But yeah, I just, you know, I went in at my strongest point, and I was able to maintain that the whole time I was there. So I think it's safer from that perspective. You're less likely to get sick and then not to mention like the personal you're away from your family for that amount of time or your way, from work for that amount of time like who can afford to take two months off of work in most cases. No one. So for all those reasons I think it's superior and then as far as what are the drawbacks? I think, you know, you, you sacrifice a little bit of your personal freedom. I did in this case because I was sleeping in a tent for three months. You go into bed by eight o'clock. So I get my eight hours in the tents and, you know it's very regimented and you have to be on it, and you don't get to do a lot of. Leveling during this time because you need to be in your tent. So a little bit of sacrifice beforehand, but you're in the comfort of your own home. So you know it's a trade off. I'm definitely willing to make. So you summit on may twenty second. Is that right? Right. Wanna just walk me through. Summit day, was that look like. Yeah. So it was interesting because what happens on Everest is their ropes that get fixed to the summit? And that's what you follow. It's a fixed line. So you basically clip into it, and you follow the route up to the summit, these fixed by sherpas, so on the south side, it's like a collaborative effort usually between the sherpas from various climbing expeditions, and they fixed lines or on the north side. This the China Tibet mountaineering association, they hire sherpas to fix the lines this year on Everest. The weather was pretty bad, and it really impeded the ability of the ship is to fix the lines. So on the south they were able to fix the lions by may fourteenth on the north, they still haven't been fixed by the time we went for summit, so it was actually a really big gamble to try and go up on the twenty second because. They were supposed to finish that day. They were expected to finish that day, but we nobody knew if they're going to, and they had gone up in comeback down five times because bad weather would come up. And so I remember being on the radio with Adrian the night before someone attempt. And we're sitting at camp to which normally people go up to camp three to summit and then back to camp three, we're sitting at camp too. And he was like, look, you guys have an opportunity here. If you wanna try it, I can't guarantee that they'll finish fixing the lines in time for you. You might get there within two hundred feet of the summit and have to turn around, if they don't finish and the other part is because they're still fixing the lines, you'd have to leave later than we would normally tell people to leave. So it's going to be an very unorthodox summit day for you, if you want to do it, you'd have to leave closer to like one or two AM, which most people leave about ten or eleven pm than. Before summit pushed. But if you want to give it a shot, you can. And if you don't make it I can't guarantee you'll get another chance. And this weather window that we have is really short. And, you know, if this is it than this is it so make your decision and lady, I it took us maybe one minute to decide. Yeah, we're going for it. Like we knew the twenty-third was going to be crazy on our side because there was only it looked like two days worth of good weather for the whole season. And so everybody was kind of, like ready to move for the twenty third, and we were like we don't want to get caught in that line if there is one, we should just go for this. And so he did. And so we get up and leave at one forty five again, really late for a summit push, but we wanted to give the wrote fixers time to make it to the summit and we go three hours later where it camp three which is where most people start their attempt from. So we started at camp twos, about twenty five thousand feet and. And got up to camp three by the time we got there it was just starting to, you know, hit twilight so he could see ahead of us. And we saw headlamps on the horizon up on the ridge, and we knew the rope fixers were up there. We're like sweet. They're going to work. All right. We just got to follow them. And so over the next seven hours, we basically just would follow along. And then if they like stopped your look like they're slowing down, we would just kind of pause and hang out, and we were trying to take our time so we can give them time. And, you know, even getting to this point the third step, which is the last thirty three steps, right? Before you hit the final summit slope we get to the bottom of the third step, and we see them and they're like eating lunch or something. So we're like, well, I guess we should stop in. You know, hang out and have a have a snag in a drink. So so we did. But yeah, they did make it to the top, like maybe thirty forty five minutes before we approached the final summit push. And then they were coming down, as we were just walking up to the very summit, and they were actually really excited to see us. It was really cool. They like give us high fives, gave us some hugs, and you know, they're like, enjoy it. And so they were gone, and then it was myself, Lydia and to climbing. Sherpa Ming montpe- song, who are with us. And we got to the summit and there was nobody else there, which was incredible. The sun was out, you know, there was a slight breeze, but it wasn't terribly cold. I was actually sweating most of the day. And I looked down the south side, even expecting to see people. And there was nobody there. And, you know, we by the time we got to some, it was like eleven forty five most the times if you're climbing Everest, they will give you a hard Turner out of like ten or eleven AM because no, they don't want you to be on the summit that late in the day whether can come up things can happen people get tired, so, you know it was because we were so much later that we didn't hit that, that was the same day. That picture was taken that went viral, you know, with the line, we didn't see anybody at all on the south. And nobody else climbed from the north that day because nobody else took the risk that the lines wouldn't be fixed. So it was amazing. Once we got to the top, it was just us. And then there was nobody else on the route the entire day. It's incredible. Yeah, it was incredible. And it was just surreal to be up there by ourselves on the summit of Mt Everest. Would you do up there for twenty minutes? You know. Not as much as I would have liked. I wanted to take off my pack, and I had this banner with, like, you know, people who had partnered with us, and I didn't even do that. Like I was too tired to take off my back. I didn't want to deal with it. I didn't eat or drink, which, you know, big fail on my part, and we did take some pictures, our sherpas had brought prayer flags so they put up some prayer flags as is tradition. And yeah just kind of took in the view for a little bit. But other than that, it was just yeah, I wish I would have done a little more of their but I did manage to send a text message out to my family and the people following to let them know, I had made it, so I had brought this little GPS Garmin thing that you can send a message from anywhere in the world. So it's really cool because it shows you on the map, where in the world that message comes from cool and like the allegation and everything, so people can see exactly where I was at that moment, but it took me a good five minutes just to. To like figure out how to push the button, and I was so tired. But yeah. At that point, I was like, well you're only halfway now. So he better get it together. Because we got a long way to go. Yeah. And then you come down pretty quick, right? It's relatively half the amount of time. It took us to get up there. So, you know, took us ten hours to get up and then maybe five to get back to camp to, which we had thought maybe we would make it down to advance base camp at twenty one thousand feet that day. But there is no way that was happening by the time I got to camp to at twenty five thousand feet I was spent I had, unfortunately kind of failed in my nutrition strategy that day, which is funny, because that's my job. But, you know to be fair, I had never dealt with an oxygen mask before. And those are such a hindrance to doing anything like you have to pull it away from your face and try and slip food, or drinks underneath it, there's like a little gap that you can try and. These things. And I just I was so focused. And I just wanted to move I didn't feel like dealing with it. And so I didn't. And that day in fifteen hours I consumed about two hundred calories and a half a liter water. So I was pretty spent. You know. So it wasn't necessarily high altitude anorexia, right? It was just the, the mask was. And you know you were just kind of tired. Exactly, it was just dealing with, you know, I didn't feel like messing with it. I would wish I would have had a better delivery system, like a straw or tube or something. Yeah. Are you eating food up there? You mostly drinking it. What are you eating when you're up there? So personally I had developed some products and the formulators and food. Scientists Accu had helped me create these products. So I had a bar that I made called the Everest's bar, and I had a custom gel, formulation and accustomed drink mix. So I had all of those things on me. It's awesome. I just didn't end up utilizing them on Sunday. What's the Everest bar like ever Spar is? Like five hundred calories of pure delicious is. Macadamia nuts could Cal. It's got coconut butter as a base. So it's just like a really rich and dense, energy source and is also made with Honey and stuff too. But I put a bunch of just really nutrient dense kind of ingredients in there to help supplement me while I was on the mountain in case I wasn't getting, you know, proper nutrition, which I kind of wasn't compared to being at home, but it's also just really calorie dense. So for the weight, it would just pack a ton of calories and I could nibble on it all day and all my God. It's so good. So you get down. And while you're climbing you had brought all of this wearable, tech with you. And you are essentially studying your own physiology, while you're doing this, or, or at least monitoring it so that you can sort of study at later. Right. So I was very fortunate to get one of the very first, they're calling it Astro skin because it's technology, they use at the space station to monitor the astronauts physiology, remotely, it's a basically a shirt with wearable sensors implanted in it, and it will monitor continuously without you having to deal with it for two days at a time, which is really cool. Put it on forget it, but it would do blood pressure, heart rate, heart rate, variability, breathing rate skin, temperature pulse ox, imagery, basically, everything, EKG, everything you need to know about yourself, and it does it in real time, which is pretty cool. So you can. Even look on your cell phone with the app and just see where things are where things are at so I'd use it a lot for looking at my pulse ox, symmetry, and seeing how well it was climatize ING, but yeah, so I have all of that data, it's like days and days worth of data that I need to analyse now but it'll be the first of its kind for those altitudes and, you know, for an ever summit day. So it's really cool stuff that I'm looking to publish here in the fall. Probably what do you hope to learn? Or what do you hope that people can take away from that research from an observational Stampa? It'll just be fascinating to see what happens because we really don't know, like what does your blood pressure do above eighty five hundred meters or, you know, how does your pulse or your oxygen saturation change overnight at those altitudes, because a lot of times these metrics you measure at different times. It's like taking a snapshot whereas this wearable technology, that's recording all the time is like getting a full. Video of capturing every single thing. And so just being able to see how things change over time. Course is going to be really cool. And at those all the tubes, because we don't know what's interesting. Yeah. Any lucky charms with you? Oh my God. Yes. I call it my ski collection. So over the course of these seven years that I've been doing trips like this. I've managed to come across interesting people who give me little trinkets or things that are like, for good luck, or whatever it is, like, I've got this, you know, set of prayer beads from someone or this little pig thing from someone else, or my friend, who's a YouTube pilot like the spy plane jet pilots gave me, his little medallion. And so I just have this handful of just little collection things that I take with me, and they all went to the summit, so, yeah, I absolutely have little good luck. Charms. And I feel like if I don't take one of them, then something bad might happen. So now every time I get something like it just gives added to the files gonna get out of control soon. How much do you know you know, I should wait. But probably, you know. Five hundred grams? I don't know. It's getting pretty hefty. What are the topics that comes up every year, pretty much with Everest, and certainly this year because of the sort of traffic jam the gridlock on the south side, and the deaths as well is the question of whether inexperienced climbers belong on Everest? What the feet of climbing Everest really means in kind of the contemporary era where you can pay guides to sort of do everything for you, essentially except, you know, put one foot in front of the other for you and I just wonder if you coming back from ever snow, even though you were on the north side you're away from the south side crowds. If you have any perspective on that. It's, you know, it's really unfortunate kind of what happened and all of the negative attention. It's brought to the mountain, but it's also not really kind of the first time I feel like every season when something bad happens, and it actually gets headlines, it's usually people, you know, speculating that maybe inexperienced is to blame or, you know, people just willing to pay the money and not really put in the necessary work behind preparing forever are getting dragged up the mountain by sherpas and putting sherpas lives in danger. And I think to a small extent that could be true. But I think at the end of the day this year was just an abnormal season weatherwise in that really had a lot to do with it. You know, normally on Everest, there might be seven to ten days of good weather, where people can summit and this year, it was more like three to five. And so when you. Have this compressed window? Everybody has to go for it at the same time and it's nobody's fault. It's just it is what it is. And it's really unfortunate. But I think the weather window had a lot to do with it. And there's just a lot of people on the mountain. And that's what happens. So. There's also something about the popularity of these mountains. I haven't climbed any of them, but I've heard similar stories from people who've gone to Kilimanjaro that is just kind of a big crowded mess a little bit. And it's kind of this conveyor belt of hikers and people going up and I guess, I just wonder how that affects what ultimately for the people who pioneered these routes and for people who love climbing mountains is supposed to be, this personal sort of spiritual experience in the outdoors. Yeah. You bring up a really good point. And it's something I've observed definitely I mean, I remember when I climbed Kilimanjaro there was this one woman being literally dragged up with oxygen on, like one porter under each of her arms. And I was just like, whoa, that's crazy. You know, I wonder if she's even going to remember this, and then you talk about the crowding and things like that, and I lived in Denver for four years. And so it's like any given weekend, you'd go out to one of the fourteen years up our same thing, right? And it's hard to say that, you know, there should be a limit on the number of people that can climb or, or any of the things that has been brought up, you know about Everest but. When so many people want to enjoy a mountain and, like who's to say that we shouldn't let them, it is kind of a bummer when you get to a mountain or whatever outdoor space and it's crowded. And, and, and that, but, you know, I think everybody has a choice. And if you wanna find a more Romo remote location or remote mountain to climb, and you can do that. I've been to some pretty remote remote locations down in South America lately that on like. Wow. This is amazing. There's nobody out here. So, yeah, I think it just depends on kind of the legwork, you wanna put into it, and how much you're willing to do your own logistics, and and you know deal with trip planning. But if you wanna get remote you wanna get away from the crowds at sincerely, possible. Still. There are lots of places on this planet that are untouched. So and then part of your trip was part of the point of your trip or something that you wanted to incorporate was raising awareness for women Latinas in the outdoors. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. What was the? The where did that come from? And what do you sort of what message do you want to convey? Well, I know you know, just from going on trips or going to mountaineering, courses or things like that. It was always very evident that the female ratio. The female to male ratio is very, very low a lot of times. I'd be the only woman most the time it'd be like myself and maybe one other female on any given trip or class or whatever it was. And so it's just an even when I was looking for a female guide, you know, there were like three that I could have contacted one of them had just had a baby. Recently wasn't really guiding the mountain anymore. I knew one and she ended up being injured and wasn't able to climb the season. And so she was actually the one who introduced me to Lydia Brady, who was the the final one. So it's just it's blatantly obvious. Even when I was trying to. Get a down suit for the trip, you know, or just different gear for this trip. It's like they don't offer these mountaineering close in women's at all CF to buy a man's suit or man's, you know, whatever. And luckily, I've really good friends at mountain hardware, and they were able to help me kind of fit my suit so that I could wear it. But it was a men's small, and I was just Jain normal on me. So, yeah, it's just all of those things make it very apparent that the female presence in, in sort of the high altitude mountaineering world is very limited and I just love it so much. And I think that, you know, other women should enjoy it too. And so, I think for me is just getting other women to want to experiment and go try these high mountain climbs and things like that. And I am also Latina. And so I've worked with inner city youth. Before. When I was in Denver, Colorado, I worked for an organization called America scores. So I have this space in my heart for trying to get, you know, inner city kids or Latinos, or whatever it is more involved in these outdoor pursuits because I think there's just so much good that can come up it and I've gotten so much out of it personally and I just want everyone to be able to experience that. Your next peak last peak Antarctica coming up, what's the plan for that? What what's the the outlook you're about six months out yet right now? Right, right. Six months out. So this one's gonna be a big one, because, as I mentioned, my partner, and I are not only trying to do seven summits, but also the volcanoes and then north and south pole. So we're like, well to get to Artika is such a logistical kind of nightmare, and it's we're like we're just gonna do it, once we're only going to the continent, once, hopefully, so we're trying to squeeze in three different objectives in one trip. So we're looking to climb mount Vincent, which is the highest mountain. And then mount Sidley which is a highest volcano and it's very rarely climbed. And then finally, we're going to head down in ski the last degree down to the south pole. So it's like ninety miles of skiing, basically telling us led to the softball. So we want to do all three of those, and we're going to try and go. Oh in December, it'll obviously bleed into January because it's going to take us a while. But we're looking at about four or five weeks down there in the. In the Antarctic tons. So that'll be you know, I'm already getting ready mentally for that. And like I said, I'm still working with my coaches from pill athlete. So that'll be your next project unless I head off to the Himalayas which might happen, but we don't know yet. So what will be left for you to collect in the mountaineering world after you're done with the seven summits, and the volcanoes, and the polls, you know, I've gotten that question a couple of times, and I'm like, there's always gonna be a mountain to climb, and especially now at the rapid ascent technology. It's like you can go and do something in five days, that might otherwise take twenty so you know, I'm not going to say, I would never consider other eight thousand meter peaks, so that could definitely be another collection, so to speak. But you know, we'll see we're we'll see where it goes. Well, thanks very much. Or combatants was great Roxanne. Yeah. No, thank you so much. This has been really fun. Thanks very much, again to Roxanne for coming into chat. For more info on her journeys and research, she's on Instagram at Roxy mountain girl. Roxie. N. T. N G, I, R L, if you wanna follow what I'm up to with California travel. I'm on Twitter at Greg Thomas. You've got questions for me or suggestions, rush. Bring on the pot Email me g Thomas at SF chronicle dot com. Whiled west is part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. This subscribe on apple podcasts. And if you like us throws rating in a review see you next time.
Whats Next for Indivisible?
"Hi I'm Greg Thomas host of the wild West podcast tune in for personal interviews with the world's top. Rock climbers surfers skiers ultra runners. And much more. If you like getting outside exploring you'll dig wild west. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. I welcome to its all political of the San Francisco. Chronicle's political podcast. I'm Joe Gear. Fully the chronicle senior political writer and today our guests guests are the CO founders of indivisible Leah Greenberg and as relevent individuals remember popped up in the scene right after president trump was elected acted exploded in popularity millions of members five thousand chapters nationwide hooting probably more than two hundred here in northern California. Now these guys have got a new book out called. We are indivisible a blueprint for democracy after trump. But they're not so sure that trump it's going to lose that's going to take a lot more of the kind of grassroots organizing that flip the house in two thousand eighteen into democratic hands as eleven Leah Greenberg Welcome to. It's all political. Welcome to the city of Saint Francis here in San Francisco. Thank you for having us. You are a your new book is indivisible. A blueprint for democracy after trump or. We'll get to that in a minute. We're going to walk down indivisible memory lane great. 'CAUSE WE WE START TALKING DOC at the very the very beginning of all over there from near the beginning of the yeah yeah and uh back in those days to for those unfamiliar with the origins of indivisible you guys were Capitol Hill. Staffers and married caress ernhert still. You're still married. Mary tell us about it. We have to have a little marker here. What was your first to your first date or your first yeah? Our first date was the weekend that healthcare fasted the affordable care act passed in March of twenty ten. That's how we because we are D. C. nerds. Obviously we nerdy dirtiest origin story of every ED celebrated out other portable health. Care for all the I can't beat it really. I love that okay so and you were. You're pissed off at the president trump was elected. And you wanted to do something about it so you start you pulled together. This twenty four four page memo that was about how to sort of push back on members of Congress and and how to go to constituent meetings and how to call all members of Congress sort of a diy hot organizations activism for dummies. Almost I think I actually brought that back in the day and you said it was very practical. It's like you know this. This is a line from the book or the The memo sit by yourself or in groups of two and spread out through the room this will help reinforce the impression of broad consensus so use. It was very granular granular and the premise live. What was the premise of all? This is members of Congress on doing unless well the premise of the original indivisible got document was that we were all very upset said about Donald Trump being elected but fundamentally donald trump wasn't gonna care what we thought that said your elected officials your one member of Congress and two senators. Do Care very much what you think because you are how they get reelected or lose their next reelection and as a constituent you have powerful tools to shape their incentives and. That's everything in from how you organize to what you ask for. That can actually change how they think about their political future and what they should do and so the guide was really just about telling you how you could apply your political power in order to shape. What your representatives did and And so you back then went. What did you expect to come out of this in those early days? As part of this was for our own emotional health right we were going through. The stages agreed if we had landed on anger. We didn't want to stay there. We wanted to do something and we had hoped that there would be some sort of push back against trump. We were scared that what we were seeing at the national level was even Democratic leaders. Were saying well we lost the election. Let's let's just make deals and we thought no we can say no so we that the vision for success for the indivisible guide was six months later. Somebody would tweet at us. Hey I went to a town hall. Used your guide and really ask them hard hitting questions. If I remember Congress that would've put us over the moon And so we were shocked with that not only the people read it but then they actually started putting it into action. It was amazing it was I mean for the for some raw numbers on the last time I checked was two million times. It was downloaded or probably more the millions of times. I think that the shocking thing so we were just overrun with emails and messages from all over. And they all said the exact same thing. which is this this? Google doc is full of typos and and and then they said Hey I got. It doesn't be together and we're indivisible syracuse or were indivisible visit east Tennessee or were indivisible San Francisco And so yes you can if you want something. A hobby edited just put it online and it goes viral. People would be very good about that but again the the shocking thing was that people weren't just reading this thing people weren't even just you know tweeting about or starting facebook groups about it. They started showing up in person and not just in a city centers not just in blue areas but in you east. ESPN ALABAMA TRUMP country. New York there were these indivisible groups that started forming and then they started already asking us. Hey we're getting together Saturday. What should we do and they? I saw this in person You know here Tom. McClintock's district one of the one of the most the data's districts in California people showed up there with their zip code name tags because because one of the early criticisms was this is a a an astroturf grew has funded by George Soros. which at that time it wasn't you know you yet? No percent of your. It's like it's a yeah it's a small percentage of the overall budget and the single largest funds is now and always has been online. Donations classrooms at any cost of your budget. This point these guys weren't making any money anywhere even know at the time when the the right wing was accusing us of Bean soros-funded astroturf our number one expense was pizza and t shirts for the volunteers wants years which we paid for out of pocket but and it became something of an inside joke with within the movement people are actually showing ever protests with T. It said George. Where's my check which I thought was really hilarious Do now we're a full-fledged. Operation Naturally have eighty six fulltime staff spread around the country either state leaders who are fulltime indivisible employees whose job is how can we make the groups in this state as strong as possible us. It's been a real whirlwind adventure. These last three career and ballpark were thinking about a million members. Oh more than that more than that than that. So we we The so part of this. We know because they're on our themelves. There are Texan Texas on our facebook etcetera. And that's somewhere one and a half to two million part of this though we don't know which is the movement is distributed. It's not command and control. It's not that you signed up for indivisible now we have you and so there is a We we know who is on our list and then we also many of the people who are members of indivisible groups are doing their our own thing in their districts as part of visible. We don't have connection to so best. Best estimated I think someone conservatives two to three million and you have about how many groups five thousand thousands of literally in every congressional district in the country and the bay area is one of the hotbeds We have this conversation coverage bear. Yes we radio hundred groups and across six congressional district says one of the last estimates. I'd I'd have to look that doesn't surprise me. I remember hearing his story early on the San Francisco groups having happen to have a waiting list to get into meetings because they just didn't have room for everybody But you know I think it is important to be organising in places like San Francisco but it's also important to be organising organism places. We've been underinvesting in progressive infrastructure so the rural and red areas places where trump may have won by sixty or seventy percent. What we found is there are still still large numbers of people who don't want trump's agenda and wanted to organize against it let's talk let's Talk Twenty twenty now and and the way forward forward Yep is about what you're all about here I think. President trump is a good shot of being reelected absolutely. He's got a good shot at being reelected. Look we're losing right up until we win for this spun. Nobody should discount it all the very real possibility that Donald trump is going to win reelection either with popular vote or through another electoral college. Victory We have to absolutely take that seriously and be working really really hard to prevent it. That said we also shouldn't credit him with magical powers. He's not some unique political genius. He is Iraq. A doodle who happens to be the president of the United States the What what let's impeachment to which you know with the impeachment hearings when recording this maybe starting in a couple of days now? What does that do for the energy on the ground? All the the the individual places races around the con- indivisible places around the country Does that is that we you know. I'm I'm actually working on the story where You know we. We know we have a good good idea of how the story is going to go. The impeachment the in the Democratic Glit- house they'll they'll be charges brought The Republican led Senate is going to say no forget. We're not going to remove the president and then we move on Does that does that move. People on the ground either way. Does that increase energy for Democrats. Does that like does that. Depressed arrest them does it make them pissed off. What does that what does it do? Well I think the absolutely critical thinking about moving forward on impeachment is that it's fundamentally delivering on the promise of Democratic Accountability Ability. That was a huge part of the blue wave. For the first two years trump got away with any number of shocking abuses of the government and nothing was done about it and now we actually really have the power and the ability to move forward so from what I hear from activists There's a sense of a sense of satisfaction that Democrats are actually taking action and they. We are moving to hold the president accountable. There is There is the kind of happiness and the kind of engagement that comes with understanding that your your work contributed to something something more important R and and continued engagement so we are seeing a major protests around the country in support of impeachment having people's back having Democrats backs in some states are in democratic districts pushing Republicans in Republican districts. We're also seeing people get ready to push their Republican senators so our team are indivisible as movement is driven Over four hundred thousand calls into the states of Republican senators who are vulnerable to involve in their reelection battles in twenty twenty urging them to stand up on impeachment mint and we must just in the last couple of just in the last few weeks and weeks so since October or since since October so we launched a campaign to make one million calls to voter urge progressive voters in the states that are held by our that are currently represented by vulnerable Republicans to urge them to commit to a fair and transparent trial. And what the goal there is not necessarily that they're gonNA ultimately do but they're gonNA understand they are going to be in between a rock and a hard place as they have to consider air weather to split from trump or whether to support Support Him and enable him further and this is look so ambitious. The right thing to do because trump is committed impeachable crimes politically if we're just talking about the political impact here. Think about this. Trump is underwater when you look at his approval rating. He's underwater in Iowa in Colorado in Arizona in North Carolina in Montana. He's even in Alaska. These are all states where they're Republican senators who are running for reelection next year. Which means that the House impeaches there will be a trial in the Senate and these Republican senators are going to be faced with a choice? They can shield this unpopular president as they're asking for votes from their constituents or they can vote to conduct and then de mobilized their base. That is a choice. I think these Republican senators should have to face. I think it helps those of us. Combating trump that. They have to now. If the let's say the Senate You know as expected does not vote to convict an that. Take the air out of the Democrats bomb. I mean if the people on the ground we care about the senators we the people of Europe people and the ground did they like. It energizes those folks in North Carolina and Maine. Who are I mean we have indivisible groups groups in all of these states and they would love to see the Republicans interstate up but if they don't they are gonNa March all the way to November and ensure that they aren't senators twenty twenty one and I think everybody's pretty clear that we're not expecting Mitch McConnell to offer fair and transparent trial? People understand that when it goes to the Senate. It's going to be him doing everything he can to. You know to get trump off and so people aren't expecting Senate trial is going to be Some magical moment when we actually get him out of office necessarily but they are expecting that. It's a moment when Republicans either have to be brave or they have to reveal who really open ask you guys about the post trump world. Are we going to do that right after a short break this week on. Not Your Century World War One ends. The Bay Bridge begins. And you'll never guess what very adventurer was was a communist nineteen ninety nine forecast of the bay area twenty years later. It's twenty years later right now. How they do I'm King Kaufman? Join me for not your century. It's like history class but five minutes long and fun wherever you get your podcasts. I'm back with Lee Greenberg and Ezra Eleven and they are the CO founders of indivisible. Let's talk about some of the things you want. It's sort of trump world. Yeah okay. That's what the book presuming. What the books about Some of the things you talked about our The filibuster and you talk about Automatic voter registration commanded gerrymandering of congressional districts limiting the electoral college. Why are these things? Do you think important so I would say you know. Our Democratic Small D Democratic House is on fire right now and so we were looking at what can be done John. In fifteen months in fifteen months we could be looking at a pro-democracy present a pro-democracy Congress. So what can you pass. To Save. Democracy this is presuming a democratic critic. Sweep of all three so half. The book is about how you build the power in order to win in twenty twenty and the other half is about how you then use that power to enact these reforms that's right. There is no pathway tweety any sort of substantial democratic reforms that doesn't go through a president trump becoming former president trump and Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell becoming either no longer senator or at least no longer at the majority leader you need a democratic Trifecta in order to get any of this done. And we know that because Mitch McConnell right now this year has been standing on the floor of the. US Senate calling voting rights in DC statehood an election security socialism in a power. Grab so we know that he will do everything in his power to stop this from happening happening but we also know these are things that a simple majority vote in Congress and a simple signature from a pro democracy president could sign into law we could make DC estate. We could massively expanded vote. We could in Gerrymandering we could make competitive district. We could tackle campaign finance reform. We could invest in local media so that we can have more podcast outcast like this all over the country that competition come on even you. Even you might benefit from this waiting for my back. That's all but the point being. I'm not talking about constitutional amendments here. That's now we're talking about. I would love to pass a constitutional amendment twenty one. It's not in the cards but simple legislation ease in the cards and the way you do that is first to get rid the filibuster and then he can pass stuff through the house in the Senate so this these are sort of kitchen table issues that we hear about anti but like is this in about healthcare or or or or free college tuition or college debt relief or whatever. Why is that well? We think we've got this fundamental problem. which is that when Democrats take office? They try to act on their top policy issue. That changes people's lives and when Republicans take office. They changed the rules so that they can stay in power and then they go after whatever ever policy issues. Democrats were trying to move the last time. That's what we've seen with the affordable care act. Most recently and fundamentally were not going to get out of that cycle and fifty the wiki playing by the same rules. We actually have to change the rules so that we're actually reinforcing pro-democracy agenda because this is a problem that's a lot deeper than trump. And that's really the core point of this book. In a healthy democratic society trump would have been rejected the same way that a healthy body Jackson virus. And that didn't happen so we actually have to look at why that didn't happen and the reality galaxy is that it's because there's been a broader attack on our democracy that's been going on for a really long time led by a core of reactionary Republican elites who've been doing everything they can the rules to stay in power. And so this is about how to Enrique it would do think is that could be a harder sell. Like let's get rid of the Philippine Star. I don't know if it's a must be won on. What the hell? We didn't land on this issue just by having since we didn't pick it out of a hat we actually pulled our groups we that was looking at us from. Yes what do you wanNA focus on and daycare but everything as you can imagine a distributed network millions of people they care about healthcare and climate and immigration and taxes. You name it but we asked them to prioritize their number one one priority is democracy reform. That's the number one party as because most individual members didn't come from the climate space for the healthcare space of the tax base. They got involved because they thought democracy democracy itself was crumbling because Donald Trump's office. Now I think there will be disagreements about the social and economic reforms. We need to pass. That's absolutely going to happen but when we look look at democracy reform it's actually somewhat ideologically. Wacky it's not just the left easier. Just the centrist who are pushing democracy of warm look at the presidential primary right now the two leading candidates right now on democracy reform. We hope they're all going to get there. But the two leading ones right now or Elizabeth Warren p Buddha jet who are not ideologically the same saying they occupy different spaces of the ideologue ideological spectrum. But you have people to judge out there talking about the need to expand the court and Reform the court you have Elizabeth Warren out there saying that her number one priority is anti corruption and pro democracy work this illuminating the filibuster and eliminating the Filibuster to get it done which everybody recognizes. He's actually looked at this. And being honest there's literally no way to get this done unless you eliminate the filibuster but so we actually see. This is a possibility regardless of who wins the presidential primary and we also see. This is being popular among Republicans and independents. We saw that in Florida in two thousand eighteen. Where the same year that they elected Republican governor a Republican senator and a republican state legislature? Floridians voted in overwhelming majority. A supermajority to enfranchise more Americans than had been franchise since the Voting Rights Act of nineteen people. Who who are felons? That's yeah that's that's that's the other thing that I would add about The filibuster for example is we're not going around talking about filibuster. 'cause we really really hate the filibuster. We're going around talking filibuster because it blocks the things we really care about so the reason. We don't have sensible gun. Violence Prevention legislation in this country is because of the filibuster and the reason that we don't have a public option on our healthcare right now is because of the filibuster. We don't WanNa make the same mistake that we made in two thousand eight of saying that if we can't get sixty votes. We're not GONNA do anything anything that's why we're talking about it now. You alluded to a couple of twenty twenty minutes. If you met with any of the candidates have they reached out to you. Recite the R.. Teams are in regular communication with the candidates. We're actually just all talk about all. Yeah I mean. Trump's trump has returned our calls and I don't know why so we have something thoroughly. We have something called the indivisible. Pledge that we were released earlier this year and this was our first foray into the presidential primary process the pledge at three components one. You're going to engage engage in a constructive primary to regardless of who wins. You're GONNA endorse him and three. You were going to put yourself at the disposal of the winning campaign. We've got sixteen weeks between the Democratic National Commission and the election every single week. You were going to do what you need do For the winning campaign to make sure Donald Trump is an ex president now on the last debate stage that were twelve candidates. It's ten of them. Had signed that pledge the only two exceptions were gathered in young gang. A has separately said. He's not going to run as a third party candidate. Gavin just isn't responding. I don't know what's going on in. Yeah well let's see we'll see he she and she will be on the next debate stage in November. How is the the The one one more thing on the two thousand twenty kids. Are you guys gonNA endorse because you endorse candidates last time. Where are you going to the presidential I mean in the in the midterms did? Are you going to endorse on the presidential wearing conversations with the indivisible leaders across the network around that prospect around. What are the pros and cons of an endorsement? Um what would it look like if it were to happen. What we've always said is that? If we were to make an endorsement it would need to to reflect the real and meaningful support of indivisible movement for a candidate so the bottom line question. Frost is first determining. Is that support there for one specific candidate. An individual groups are free of exists who earlier. Everyone's very thomas that they want endorse someone they can. That's right What House the landscape landscape changed? Do you think in terms of Organizing a grassroots organizing and and sort of civic engagement in general since you guys started this do things totally change. I know that obviously we saw the results from the With with your help on the on the Stopping the at at the end of Obamacare we sought in the midterms since the mid terms would have you seen so I think the natural trajectory for any social movement is you get a big spike. And that's where it gets built up and it had slowly fade into irrelevance because naturally individual activism Wayne's. That's what happens you have You get a the job you move. You have kids whatever happens. Life happens and he stops being engaged. Think from our point of view what we've seen is invisible is not a movement of individuals. It's it's a movement of groups are unit of activism is the group. So what we've seen over time is we got obviously a big spike in December January February. Twenty seven seven two thousand sixteen two thousand seventeen and then other things would happen. They would pull more people in there would be a betsy devos vote. There would be A. Can you remember that feels like decades ago. Yes like years ago exactly so betsy devos gets about and then we have the fight over health care and then we have to fight over dock and then we have the fight over taxes and for each to these fights you know. Most of the time most people are not paying attention but for each of these fights you get some set of people who suddenly lift their heads up and they say shoot. I WanNa do something on this. This really makes me mad. I WANNA to get involved. And if you've got groups already on the ground that had been developing that infrastructure you can pull those people in at that time and that's what we've seen over the course of the last three years. It's not a directory up. It's Spiky so we had our single largest national day of action on January third abyss Sierra in supported the for the People Act two and a half years that for the People Act as the pro democracy bill. The House passed that was two and a half years into our existence. We then broke that record again on the de-fund Hate Week of action which was a fight against trump's deportation machine. So in between those times we had some other actions. There was the abortion bans or some other things that happen but it wasn't just one constant trajectory from the movement. It was are we taking advantage of these movements almonds. I think that's why we're still talking to Ya. Three years later and we have invaded into irrelevance. And they're still groups everywhere engage. I love there's one Dig that perhaps APPs. I only enjoyed in the book. Where you said that there is a An aide to Senator Feinstein here in San Francisco. I think it was at that rally to in in in in front of her offices. uh-huh and and This person said and I I think I have an idea. This person is. I won't say her name. But you guys will be gone by Saint Patrick's day yep up seventeen years still around. I remember vividly so February. Twenty seventeen I believe it was or in the early two thousand seventeen. And there's one thing you don't WanNa tell crowd of indivisible oh groups It's a you're not going to be here pretty soon. Yeah we whether the Liam soy in European what you're GonNa say I was GonNa say if you're also looking around the country at the electoral results of the last week. What you see is the same folks who've been showing up at these protests have also kept knocking doors because when you're looking at something like Virginia where Democrats flipped the House of delegates and the State Senate running on maps that Republicans originally gerrymandered to guarantee their electoral dominance? There is continued enormous amounts of grassroots energy investment investment going into each of the very local races in order to pull that off the woodland. Ask about which I it struck me and which I think applies to some of the invisible groups groups I've known and got the no around here in southern California Orange County and you say This is less number nine. Don't get defensive about your a privilege Explain what that means when you when you talk about privilege because I was. We often talk that on the podcast. About how people should you know as we say own their privilege. And how does that work with the worker doing well so for the US a lot of this is about making sure that people are not paralyzed and that they're not defensive about what they're bringing to the work and that they're actually thinking about how to show show up if they do come from a place of privilege whether that's gender or race or socioeconomic status or ability However you come into the world making sure that you're showing showing up for people who do not have those advantages in a way that's actually supporting them and supporting their leadership? And so I'll be white people big fording the situation. That's that is one of the ways that that it shows up absolutely and so fundamentally it's just about making sure that Especially for us is relatively new activists on the space. Were always conscious that we're entering into spaces that other people have been organizing and for a long time where directly impacted communities organizing where they hold the strategy and where we really WANNA be coming in in support of their leadership and that's central central to how we approach our own work at the national level. And how we encourage groups around the country to approach their work at the local level and the question that is in the back of many Democrats minds what happens if trump wins in twenty twenty. So I think we're really another another booker with so I I. The book is very hopeful about the changes that we can make in twenty twenty one. But it doesn't mince words it really does not focus is on the crossroads. It's we are. We are right now as a country in fifteen months we could be looking at a real representative democracy in this country that actually does represent the diversity of of the electorate or we could be on a path to permanent white plutocracy. And that's what's in front of us and the reason why we wrote the book now was because we thought it was very very important for us to not wind up down this path and the only answer to how do you. How do you ensure that? We traveled down the path representative. Democracy is if we build the Movement for indivisible we build the pro democracy movement and we ensure that people sites are set not just on twenty twenty but on twenty twenty one. You'll the Leeann I wrote this book. You'll note that aren't even on the cover. Yes and that was. That was intentional. Also every single dime. I'm this book goes to Indivisible Safe Democracy Fund. We don't get a dime all that and that's because this book is intended to grow the movement this four the indivisible movement. It's intended to take us down this path. of actually passing represent democracy. Now what happens if we don't really bad stuff happens and We I don't know what the future represented. Democracy is in this country if have Donald Trump wins reelection or if Mitch McConnell remained Senate majority leader I think booths or nightmare scenarios and so we need to build this power now. It does not happen in October. October or November of twenty twenty. It happens right now. The way we built the wave in two thousand eighteen was by building his power. Twenty seventeen the way. We're going to win in twenty twenty handyman. These reforms in two thousand twenty one is by if you've been on the sidelines. If you've just been listening to podcasts. As important as that is now. You're getting up off the sidelines. And and into the game. Because Democracy is participatory. You're concerned about the level of energy right now as we sit November twenty nineteen at the election results on your conference a- An- and also likely said at the beginning of this. We're losing right up until we went all right Greenberg as well thank you so much. It's great to finally meet you in person. Both of you. And congratulations on the book. It is indivisible a blueprint for democracy after trump. Thank you for being on. It's all political. Thanks for having US Yeah Hammer. I'd like to thank you all for listening today. I'd like to thank Leah. And Ezra for coming here to San Francisco to be on the PODCAST. I'd like to thank the King King Kaufman often for producing this podcast along with the crate. One Karen Creighton and remember whether you're a Democrat or a big P. plutocrats it's all political. It's all political as part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is editor in chief our music our theme. The music that we have is cattle called that's written by Randy Clark and performed by Randy Clark and close off. If you like this show subscribe rate and review it on Apple podcast or wherever you listen for more great journalism like this subscribe to the San Francisco Chronicle at San Francisco Chronicle dot dot com slash subscribe. You can find me on twitter at Joe Gear fully thanks.
Elizabeth Warren Out: Revisiting "Electability"
"What if there were a podcast just like history class except five minutes? Long and fun. I'm King Kaufman and I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody Joe carefully here Elizabeth. Warren just dropped out of the presidential race on Thursday and I wanted to replay an episode. That we did back in August that I think is really relevant today. Now that the most diverse field and presidential history is down to three white men in their seventies. I wonder replay this podcast. We did on electability that word that so many Democratic voters have been talking about and debating for more than a year. Now my guest Brennan Tracy. Carter is a researcher who looked at tens of thousands of races in the United States and found. That electability is a myth. She told me quote White. Men have no electability advantage at all. So let's hear that episode from last summer with Brenda Tereza Carter welcome to. It's it's all political the San Francisco Chronicle's political podcast. I'm Joe Garagiola. The Chronicle senior political writer and today in the podcast we're talking about electability and the myth of electability. So start thinking about this. When this poll came out the other day and said but Carmela Harris was in a virtual tie among Democratic voters in California but at the same time people thought that Biden quote had the best chance of defeating president trump. They also thought he would be quote the best leader. What the Hell does that mean? It's all tied into the myth of electability. That's not a comment about whether Harris can beat Biden or not. It's based in fact in a recent study that showed women and people of Color Run for office. They win just as often as white men so here to talk today about. This is one of the nation's leading researchers intellect ability and the person. Did that. Study Brenda Carter. Director of the reflective democracy campaign. She's talking about electability on. It's all Political Brenda. Carter welcome to. It's all political. Thank you for having me. You're in you're calling us from New Haven Connecticut correct. Okay well before we dive into this. Let me just give the listeners. A few stats that that may be pertinent here. So White. Men are thirty percent of the population according to census figures but they represent sixty two percent of the people in political office and women of Color are twenty percent of the population but only four percent of elective office. Holders and men of color are nineteen percent of the population and seven percent of the people who are representing us in elective office. So many we're going to talk about electability today. What what does that mean In both in the popular sense of the word and in the real sense of the word based on your research well you know it is It's kind of like A. It's like a ongoing barshop tests. It means whatever the person who is using it wants it to mean or thinks that means But the sort of in the popular imagination and in conventional political wisdom. There's the idea that white men are the more electable candidate that means that voters are more likely to choose them and that when they're on the ballot they're kind the safest bet As candidate we recently just this summer just very recently did an analysis of the two thousand eighteen election's and and actually going back a bit farther than that as well but looking at the demographics of candidates on our ballot as compared to who won. So the question was are there. Demographic groups like white men for instance who win at greater rates than others when they're on the ballot And what we found is that the answer is no that white men have no ability advantage at all. They don't win at greater rates than women of Color White winning or men of color That basically all demographic groups win elections at the same rates when they're on the ballot and voters have the opportunity to vote for them. So electability is a myth in terms of when you're talking about race and gender. Yeah that's right. There's no necessary advantage to being a you know a member of any particular demographic once you're on the ballot and that's the key is getting is getting on the ballot so I would have done something a couple of things by you where we are seeing. How despite the actual research that you've done in our presidential race this myth of electability still is out there so a couple of weeks ago. I wrote about a new poll here in California Mom California Democrats that found that Cal Kamala Harris was Basically in a statistical dead heat with Joe Biden but in response other questions far more people thought Biden quote had the best chance of defeating president trump and they also thought he would be quote. The Best Leader. Help US decode. What this means. You know. I'm not an expert on voter psychology Or voter behavior necessarily but I think what happens with this electability. This is that for really. You know kind of understandable reasons when you ask somebody you ask the average person who seems more electable and you give somebody who has held Federal elected office before an who also demographically looks a lot more like everybody else who has held these offices before in the history of the country. You know it's not surprising that people say yeah. I think he'll probably you know he seems like he has the best shot I don't think he's necessarily deeply considered you know positions by these voters Is it sort of it? Feels like a commonsense reaction. I think by you know for a lot of people say yeah. Well I don't know if he was with four so sure I think you know also these ideas of what a what a leader looks like and what it means to be a leader Are deeply racial is in gender because of our history and who has even had the opportunity to hold leadership positions that are publicly recognized particularly in politics. So you know I think again if you're sort of asking someone on the fly. What do you think of eater books like you know? It's not surprising when thinking about the presidency that they would identify somebody who looks like Every one of the presidents we've had before except one in similar one. There's another poll came out. I think this is alive. And it s DEMOC- democratic voters to questions who they vote for if the primary election were held today. And WHO WOULD? They vote for if they had a quote had a magic wand and could make and make any of the candidates. President didn't have to beat anyone or win the election. I don't know if you steady see this poll this this is interesting so a Biden. A dozen in most surveys. These days comes out on top followed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren but when the respondents were asked to choose their magic wand candidates twenty one percent pointed to Warren while nineteen percent chose Biden and sanders. What what does this say a lot of things but what I'd want to highlight? Is Ken. How much our ideas of what's possible for all of us. How much are possible is shaped by what has happened before it's so I think it's difficult for many people to imagine but It's possible for a woman. Antler person of color to succeed in the system because there have been a particularly at the presidential level because there have been virtually no examples of that before. So think again you know speaks to On the one hand how much interest in desire there is for leaders who look different who represent a different set of life experiences and leaders. We've had four particularly presidential level but also I think A concern or worry that You know that the system is sort of q entrenched but it's too hard For nontraditional candidates to break in and succeed. So there's two sort of competing forces that voters these. Democratic voters are fighting with that. We'd like to see more diverse candidates. We'd like to support them but at the same time. I don't know if they could win right. And you know it's interesting in addition to our research that we've been talking about Around who holds elected office? And when we've done a fair amount of public opinion research on these questions and it's really relevant to this because what we've found consistently is that a majority of voters regardless of Party identification actually support more women and people of Color in elected office. They think that would be a good thing. They're actually in favor of IT and again. This is interest Democrat. It's everyone But simultaneously they perceive that That women and people of Color face greater barriers To elect an office so I think that that capture the attention that you just mentioned that there is a real desire for different kinds of leaders and at the same time I think of correct perception that the system is not as welcoming them right. Have you would have you noticed we? We have five women running for President and certainly in the The major the major candidates Elizabeth Warren as we said Kamala Harris. Amy Klobuchar Kirsten Gillibrand Tulsi Gabbard. How's it kind of influence or shape? The the presidential races we've seen it. Yeah well I think one interest at a baseline level. It has done so much to normalize the idea that a woman could be a contender for the presidency. Obviously we know that that's possible based on two thousand sixteen but You know having a greater range of women multiple one Different racial backgrounds different professional background. And then just really changes that sense of what's awful So I think that is a huge impact that this has had. I think the other impact in that You know both in terms of gender and in terms of race because there's so much more a much greater range of people Racially and in terms of gender on the On the page so to speak or you know running running through the democratic on the nation I think the there's had to be a much more. Direct grappling with the with the life experiences of those people and the experiences of women and people of color historically in the United States but traditionally really kind of excluded from these processes. You know it might be sort of acknowledge and some kind of Sweden but I think having people who have actually lived the experience on the stage. You know running Successful campaigns Has Changed the dynamic. So you see things for instance you know. Obviously we've heard a lot about encounter between Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and I debate around school segregation. Nothing but you know similarly. I think we've seen Joe Biden having to account for his role in the hearings for instance Having to deal with criticisms about his relationships to win in the way he You know interact with them physically. And I don't. I'm not sure that we would be seeing that. If the lived experience of women and people of color warm so directly represented in the Democratic field. There's a there's another Exchange on the debate stage in the first debate. That was kind of interesting. You had the governor Jay Inslee from Washington the Guy who's you know very progressive and he said that the topic of abortion came up and he said quote I it should not be an option in the United States of America for any insurance company to deny coverage for the right of choice. I'm the only candidate here who has passed a law protecting a woman's reproductive rights and health insurance and the only candidate who passed the public option. I respect everyone's goals and plans here but we have one candidate who has advanced the ball. We have to have access for everyone so when he said that any. Chard it again. One of the female candidates said quote. I want to say that there are three women up here who fought pretty hard for women's right to choose and she got a round of applause. How does that work because here you have Jay Inslee just Kinda stating his record? Which was accurate but Klobuchar fighting back saying well. Hey Hey old White Guy. What are you doing talking about this? Are you wish he was? He getting a doc points for man's planning here or what was going on there. Well I always like to see people having points Dr Manson and personally I I I don't know if that was what was happening there But I do think it changes that dance. The dynamics when you have people speaking really from lived experience you know and And when are you know the only people who can do that around the question of choice and Reproductive Justice So I don't know what was in line when she said that I think that is. It's kind of an example of what you were asking about. How presidents of so many women in the campaign or in the in the field has changed the dynamic I think You have people saying you know we. We've lived these things. We've grappled with these things just as human beings and Lee We bring a different perspective because harasses you got the I. Guess the the The Washington the PUNDITRY Blessed her as being electable after she after her exchange with Biden and she she's been asked this a number of times we've all asked her about this about the The the conversation about she says the conversation by pundits about electability an who can speak to the midwest she said but when they say that they usually put the midwest and a simplistic box and a narrow narrative and too often their definition of the Midwest League people out it leaves out people in the room. Hope help build. Cities like Detroit leaves out working women who are on their feet all day. Many of them working without equal pay and the conversation too often suggests that certain voters will only vote for certain candidates regardless of where whether all their ideas will lift up families. That's a IT'S A. It's a good argument. But is that the challenge for first female candidates and candidates of color. When they try and talk about this stuff to they do they do they. Risk being pigeonholed in some way that can happen. You know certainly. There's research sort of different standards around the city For Women candidates as opposed to men. you know. I think these things played differently for candidates of color often than they do for white candidates But I think the buck you know. I think again voters and again across the political spectrum. There they actually want new leader has made it very clear that the American people are extremely disillusioned with the system as it is and with the kind of conventional approach to politics so I don't really think the problem here is voters And again you know. Our research on elect ability shows that when voters are offered the opportunity for to select when people of Color to represent them they do with the same rights that they select white men. So I don't you know. I don't think that really the problem here or obstacle that nontraditional candidates faces look voters. Yeah I think to the extent that there is a problem in kind of popular perception and opinion. It's much more with those kind of You know the media coverage and you know kind of the Pundit class if you will That you know can have a tendency to kind of research All conventional wisdom about what works and what doesn't give us an example of how the punditry might do that. I think the elected -bility example is Or the elected issue is is a really good example if if voters are continuously told that you know in various ways directly or indirectly that white male candidates are the more electable. One Bite of You know significant evidence to the contrary at a certain point that becomes a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. So you end up. Having political gatekeepers you know like nature. Donors powerbrokers various kinds. Who Sort of you know. Contribute money and clear. The Path for candidates You end up having been kinda fallen line between the following behind the candidates who are who are You know presume to be or described as being more electable and then you know that sort of picks up steam pretty soon that person in the impact more or less of only because they have more resources they have more support. Popular opinion is sort of coalescing behind them because again the belief is that they're the most likely to win hope. How difficult is it to tease out? You know someone who with a lot of name recognition like Joe Biden. These demands been in an elective office for almost fifty years when you go back to his local office days and and electability And and because this this poll jumped up the popped up the other day Quinnipiac poll that showed among Black Democrats Biden still gets forty seven percent of the votes of Black Democrats sixteen percent for Sanders. Eight for Warren and one percent for Harris and among female Democrats Biden got thirty one percent. Twenty Four for Warren ten percents and seven for Harris. Would how much of that is name recognition? How much of that is just the the Punditocracy reinforcing these gender and racial stereotypes. And how what's the challenge for researchers like you to all that stuff out yeah? I think it's incredibly difficult to disentangle these things you know as I said earlier I think you know one of the one of the things that you point to further reason why Joe Biden and keeps coming up as the most electable candidate you know. He was divisive and he has had a long career in federal at the federal level in elected office So you know tremendous name recognition. he has tremendous Connections and Resources than power throughout the political plainfield And you know I. It does become very difficult to separate out. What exactly is going on When when we're you know one will come up with these kinds of finding which is really honestly one of the reasons why. I don't think that these tools are particularly useful at this point. Could help really too early. Or or what right and I think you know as I was saying earlier. If you ask people who seem the most electable. It's not terribly surprising but again the average voter chooses the person who was the vice president. You know as compared to everybody else so you know but that's a different question from who people will you know as you said with these other votes Full that's a different question from who people want to vote or or who they will vote for this electability myth very when we're talking about local and statewide candidates more intense as it lessen tensor's at about the same well that's really interesting. Thing is that it's really consistent up and down the balance There's no significant variation for level of you know it's it's not as though You know White men have no electricity advantage at one level. But they do at another It's really just across the board All demographic groups win basically the same race and even if you dig a little bit deeper and go into specific more specific groups so if you dig into Beyond for instance the broader category of women of Color and you look at African American women versus Asian are coming in versus Latino. When that's also consistent there's no There's really no variation among the group if you want to get really specific women of color do outperform other groups. When they're on the ballot. They actually win an slightly greater rates So and that's again quite consistent on the ballot at different levels office so this is really This elected advantage is a mess. Really at all levels of office for No matter which if you're talking and what is the influence of president trump been on on raising the number of women and people of Color winning office. Do you think is that a respective of does he have any factor in this at all or people voting against him when they're voting for these candidates. Yeah well again you know. We don't I can't say for sure why people you know. We don't study voter decision making but I can't say that when we looked at Election is going back to two thousand twelve So twenty twenty through twenty eighteen We saw starting twenty going back. Twenty twelve three regular increases in the numbers of women and people of Color running for and winning office But then after the twentieth sixteen elections the numbers jumped so there was already progress underway. And in you know candidates and officeholders were becoming somewhat more reflective of the American people but there was really a Supercharge effect Host Twenty Sixteen. So you know. I can't say for every voter in America. What was driving that Or for every person you know every person who was running What motivated them to do. So but it's really clear that the results of the two thousand sixteen election had an impact on Getting more women people of color running and more win it. So what you put on your future your futuristic cap now and when when do you think we will see a a congress a state legislature governors who in their race and gender ethnicity will reflect America truly how how? How far away are we from that a decade at this at this trajectory Th- twenty years? When how far away are we do you think what do you think well? I have two simultaneous Contradictory answers to that question. Yeah one is That just looking at Congress which is obviously just a small slice of elected office in America but Before but The twenty sixteen election outcome the rate of change so the rate of increase of women in Congress was so slow that would have taken at least a hundred years to reach equality in Congress right so for Congress to be half win it but after the twenty sixteen election The rate of change spiked so thinly. That if that rate of change continued we would have equality in ten years. So it's a very different scenario So that you know again that's just congress not elected office on the whole but a very interesting change. I think in In the trajectory. We're on now having said that. I also think that there is nothing automatic about this. These increases women and people of Color. You know. It's not as though you know I think sometimes people think well. You know the demographics of the country are changing and surely a you know the people who hold elected office. That will catch up. You know. Sure maybe there's a little bit of a lag but we're getting there and we just kind of have to wake and I actually don't agree with that at all. I think that One if you look at women that's a A pretty powerful cautionary tale. We've been half of the population forever and we're nowhere near fifty percent of political officeholder but thirty three percent or somewhere. Yeah thirty one percent I think overall. So we're you know still Significantly excluded from political decision making role I think in addition to women being a cautionary tale. Well I think I think that that illuminates is that this system is absolutely entrenched and is producing these numbers for reason. The demographic mismatch between those who hold political office and those who live in the United States is not an accident. The system is set up to produce this result. It was never intended to have reflective decision making Political power has been in the hands of white men and the very beginning and through a incredible amount of hard work and organizing and fighting women and people of color have gained access as citizens as voters and to some extent as political office but the system is still absolutely setup to exclude women and people of color and to concentrate hands in this country. Power in the hands of of the group has has old. Tell it so. There's nothing automatic about these changes And I think we can see from the difference between you know just in the last couple of years. How much work it takes to. Even they could dent in the the mismatch but demographic mismatch and local power in America. There's been tremendous amount of organizing and activism and marches and Y- groups popping up around the country to Support new kind leaders both women and people of Color for political office and they did have an impact as I said. We saw real mike in the numbers after the twenty sixteen election. But as you said women are still only thirty one percent of officeholder and people of color are still incredibly underrepresented as well so So that's my my simultaneous conflicting contradictory. Answer to your question. I think there's no way to know how far we are And it will be a question of how much organizing and work happened to change the system and And how quickly the system meal pool? All Right Brennan Carter. Thank you so much for being on its political. Thank you for having me. I'd like to thank you all for listening today. I'd like to thank Brenda Carter for joining us on today's podcast. I like to thank the King King Kaufman for producing today's podcast. Remember whether you're electable or not. It's all political. It's all political as part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is our editor in chief our music. Our theme music that we have is cattle called that's written by Randy Clark and performed by Randy Clark and Crow Song. If you'd like this show subscribe rate and review it on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen for more great journalism like this subscribe to the San Francisco. Chronicle at San Francisco Chronicle Dot com slash subscribe. You can find me on twitter at Joe. Garre fully thanks.
Spring Training Prospects, Part Two
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it wherever you get your podcasts. The wall and welcome to the giants splash on Henry. Shulman the giants beat reporter for the Chronicle and today's as guest is farm director. Kyle Haynes Kyle is back for the second of two podcasts talking about the minor leaguers who will be in major league spring training with the giants which unbelievably probably is just a few weeks away in the last podcast we talked about prospects who are on the forty man roster and today. We'll talk about the non roster invitees A list that was formally announced just last week and I think that one thing we learned After the first year under far Hans Zaidi Is that you. You cannot underestimate or look past anybody that he brings in On a on a minor league deal as non-roster invite because You never know who is going to make it onto the big league club at one point or the other During the season I think we saw Stransky last year that Ah there might be a name of the comes across the wire transaction and You know you kind of look at it and you might glance away But then you really gotta pay attention attention to these. Don't you over sure. Yeah I think all of them are guys that were hoping that You know do some things like with the dodgers don with guys like next Muncie or Chris Taylor. Were you know maybe suppliers overlooked in written off. And you go find player you know can be an impactful player on your eighteen whether it be for two weeks or for two years so he was looking for value anywhere. You can get it okay. Well let's just get right into it and We'll for I just you want to ask you something I I got into some any names. as we discussed in the last podcast You know you you are not the ultimate decision vision maker on who gets invited. Who doesn't which WHO's on the forty man roster who who's not but I'm just wondering how much of a say you as the farm farm director kind of get in which non roster invitees to bring in You know to sign and bring in our you consulted on some of these guys just for your opinion based on what you've seen about them in the past. I feel blessed that You Know Far Han in Scott areas that they value us in and and You know they know that some of us work with these guys a lot. And they're always sending out questions and and and asking us for you know what we think and and then we talk talk about as a group and you know that that's great to feel wanted and that your opinion is is needed and valued whether they take it or not but just the fact that got he's he considers myself and others like myself for these big decisions is You know I it helps but but Because we definitely want thoughts on every guy that we have in a minor leagues. This is what we live for so then very fortunate that You know bring it ask some important questions and taken seriously okay. So let's get right into it and You know a lot of the non roster invitees journeymen some of them have had been in the major leagues. But there's one name that stands out He's probably the youngest non roster invitee that you're bringing in and that's Sean Shelly He was the a second pick overall in twenty eighteen draft I think as people have started to figure out he's a big fellow who's six hundred eleven. which would make him tied for the tallest pitcher in the major leagues If once he makes it What is it about Sean? stands out about some of the other young prospects that really made you guys guys WanNa see him and big league camp this year. Well I think the entire product pedigree As a guy that the those strikes he's got good Stuff easiest thing and say as he's he's tall but even if he was six foot three I think he'd be a major league pitcher to some degree in his own. Right so He Eh hard sinker. It competes really wrong amount. And then he's just he's always it's well he's SCC. Pitcher Leroy is at the University of Kentucky. Came in. Then you've got US feet wet with US show log with qualities and then last year Winter seemed to get better with every month that he played and he's learning a lot and felt like it. It was a good step for him to go and learn and develop there for a few weeks there and Major League camp before he comes back down to the minor league camp right and you talk about pitchers wanting to throw north to south. There's there's a lot of north there I mean. Does that height help a little bit in that sinker just from where it comes. Out of a pitcher's hand I'd I level before you know as opposed to where it lands. Yeah I think it's probably a it's more unique because it's a higher release point. Obviously a taller taller guy for the hitter to look at so when he throws that sinker. I mean it's sinking from higher spot than than shorter guy. So right definitely unique. Look to a with his height added But when you watch him pitch and for those that are watch a pitch. He doesn't look six eleven and goofy and really athletic kid and I think you'd probably look at him out there and not realize how tall is until you see him. Just stand next to other people he moves. It was really well in the Mount and people will look at him and think Randy Johnson but he doesn't throw with Randy. Johnson velocity like you said he's more of a singer guy. He's not in in the upper nineties busy. Now he's more ninety three ninety four maybe ninety five here and there Maybe better on a good day but at ease more of a pitcher command sinker and a and a curveball randy was obviously a hundred from the left side with a power slider so less power stuff but he's definitely not a software by any means. Well good maybe they. Maybe we won't have John Kruk Running back to the dugout when he stands against him. Another guy I wanted to ask. Ask about In this guy who's been in the organization while is Tyler sear He's twenty six years old of a relief pitcher And very promising a kid hit from Fremont here in the in the bay area. attent rounder from Twenty fifteen. WHO's had a little bit of an injury problem? But he had a pretty good bounceback season last year with Ed. Aa didn't he. Yeah he missed. All of two thousand eighteen Premature two thousand eighteen hundred with the elbow injury that now. He's good to ago and it was really nice to see him ounce back not only the previous form but maybe better I think he's he's much better now than he was even pre injury. which you don't always see so Yeah I think he's on the radar and a guy that we wanna see more than and I wouldn't be surprised for him to to grab some some even more more eyeballs than what he has Recently okay The next guy he was on the forty man roster he was taken off but he agreed to resign. His name was Rico Garcia Twenty five year old and another right hander and I have to admit I really don't know very much about him. He did have a couple of big league games with the rockies. What should fans expect when they see? Rico Garcia take. The mound is spring training. Yeah I mean he's more of a starter so I don't know how many games actually at the start of these guys that are Kinda starters The the tough part for them is they end up being relievers in majorly camp so you might not get to see really were truly what. He is but he's more of a starter profile and I would anticipate and being a starter starter for us This coming season You know more right now. I think we just gotTa view him as debt peace and see what he's like in person to see you know where he fits in. But you know once again. I mean last year you know first of all the rockies. Minor League affiliates have the worst hitters. Barmy pitchers environments ever Albuquerque the Hartford. Jau caster colleague. I mean these places are really hard to pitch in. And he's done really nice job pitching in those environments so he throws a lot of strikes and and usually in those hitters environments people Australia. If you don't have good stuff you're gonNA get destroyed so he's stoned strikes and he strikes people out and he's not getting hit hard and some really really tough spots for pitchers the pitch so. I think that's one thing to look at when you look at his numbers Worries doing and then from there. I think we're GONNA see more a starter and not necessarily power arm but a guy that's a starter and right now you know. We're we're going to see where he fits in compared to the other starting pitchers in the organization In spring training okay Th the next one person I wanted to ask you about I think he also originally came from the Rockies Organization he's twenty eight and I don't believe Davies pitched in the majors He's the only left-hander in the group of ten pitchers who are non roster invitee Sam Mall What kind of Pitcher is Sam all? Yes Sam Sam developed More of a hard sinker as well. not quite Zach Britton. I don't WanNa make those Gerson but You know more than that. Moldova Hissar instead of power Lefty thrown sliders or anything but hard sinker. He's a guy we picked up last year and he worked hard with over pitching coaches and worked on some some pitch design stuff on the side early in April. So that's how you didn't see him much patrol early and they took him to the year in pitch really well for us and the Balkan mostly enrichment just because that's where the roster spots where with our depth and then a little bit in Sacramento. And you know we'll see how it goes but he's a lefty and he's got good stuff and it gets people out so you can never have too many of those guys you have Forty two strikeouts in thirty eight and a third innings for Richmond in in double a Then even in a brief AAA assignment he struck out twelve in ten and two thirds innings. And I got to say also in six games with Sacramento He had a one point six nine. Era which to me is even more impressive than the two point. Five eight Yara in all thirty five games at Richmond because you know on PBS is basically. It's it's wiffle ball So those numbers are what caught my eye. I just have very few more guys to ask you about We'll be back with. Kyle Haines the giants farm director right after this. Why it was one of Hollywood's favorite cowboys? Cool steely a law. Law Man who tamed the West. Guess what. He wasn't really liked that I'm King Kaufman this week on not your century. Join me to meet the real wider plus. Imagine yourself dodging a fifteen foot wave of molasses racing through the streets of Boston at thirty five miles an hour and then together. We'll go through the first edition of the San Francisco Cisco Daily Dramatic Chronicle Not your century. It's a podcast. That's like history class but five minutes long and fun in the giants farm director. Kyle Haynes we're talking about the non roster invitees some of the minor leaguers who will be in major league spring training been kind enough to talk to us. Give us to podcasts worth of insight And we have a few more guys to ask about I'm asking you about a Lotta pictures on these non-roster roster invites because well ten of the eighteen. That you're bringing in our pitchers so I I have two more pictures. I was hoping. Ask about Roffe. Viscaya no He he's a kid. So you guys actually signed I believe when he was sixteen years old You know from Latin America. He's twenty four now And he's a reliever. I noticed that you'd be through about sixty two innings last year was there any injuries involved or anything like that Or was it just dubbed. Them's kind of the organization deciding to Limit how much he was gonNA throw. Well you know eighteen. He normally through a lot more Starting last year we shifted more the bullpen pin and just trying to limit him to more shorter. Stints to see how stuff would play because we had a thought that maybe getting a minor the starter not having but also meetings things the playoffs and did He's a power arm. had good breaking ball. He's got really good stuff You know he's a plus competitor on the mound gal out of emotion ocean to him He loves to win. You know he loves to impeding the win and He's still fairly young for us. Like you said we saw it as an amateur in Out of the international free agent market there FA Home Truman Grown Guy You know I managed them and really just enjoyed. Alm Interactions Actions with him. Because I love how much he cares and dossier number itself and you'll nice assuming how that that bomb that stretch in San Jose and then you know. Learn some valuable lessons. Doug Doug Light and we're excited to see if he can take another step forward in issue dislike needed from from eighteen. Seventy four strikeouts against thirty five walks in sixty two. And two-thirds Third Jennings I we we haven't specifically on purpose not really talked about where guys are going to start Rolls and things like that but About him you expect him to come. I mean the campus reliever again. Yeah I wouldn't anticipate really refer all the way okay The last picture I wanted to ask about with Sam Wolfe He's twenty eight years old and a Jack Scott Him in the Matt Moore deal a couple years ago and he was a name that was you know. I mean kind of racism Hope when the giants got him he had pretty good profile And and then we really haven't heard about him very much. What can you tell us about the kind of Pitcher Sam Wolf is and What what were you see him yes? AM isn't guy. Obviously you mentioned required training and we were able to give us. He was coming off right in the middle of actually not coming off us in the middle of doing the An elbow injury so in where we traded for a guy who currently couldn't pitch got unhealthy in stuff came back So we're able to to maybe by low on that trade while he was hurt And when I came back this stuff's back The he added. He's just one of those guys that you you just don't realize how good he is until you wash him for for longer. Stretches is stop really good He's got multiple weapons he he's got good off speed combined with mid-nineties fastball. There's strikes and once again you know it just seems to have really consistent outing and very reliable and then just you know off the field. Obviously just to stand on human beings well so always loved being around Sam and Everybody's always rooting for him. And not that they aren't the other guys but San Very pop star in the locker room with the with the guys and I think he's going to be a guy that People are going to be pleasantly surprised about Yeah and last year in Richmond. One point seven seven eight. Era In twenty five games As well he is a reliever again right. Yes okay now That's it for the pitchers on on the non-roster invite side. I wanted to get into a couple of position players a few position players. Here there are a couple of catchers that you've brought in One of them a automatically has the best name in the organization. Right now I will. I will give him that victory right now. He's a catcher named Chadwick trump People Call Him Chad. He comes from from the Netherlands. Antilles and He has very young for non roster invitee. He's twenty four years old. Had some shoulder trouble. I believe with the Reds Ed's I I take it that You know given that you picked him up. You feel that Maybe there's an upside there. When he's healthy right? Yeah just touching just hard to come by General and to find a guy that Still inexperience that we can mold. And like you said You know ended up being twenty five years old this season at some point and can provide us an officer value as well usually guys you're always looking for and then into a to realize split the in you know basically the upper level experience city already has that it's a it's a nice step peace and once again you get him in here and and see how he makes his end but we're from afar Leroy's enjoy watching him. Play in grand will be a free agent at young ages is pretty rare so that was a nice nice department. Yeah he did. He did reach AAA He was with the Louisville last year in the reds organization. A lot of these guys A lot of the younger guys have not reached AAA yet. He to eighty six again another guy with a high on base percentage three eighty nine and slugged six ten which is kind of a little eye opening in in Twenty six games for Louisville. I mean that league. The internationally is not the Pacific Coast League in terms of the bandbox. ballparks the other catcher that you're bringing in as a non roster her invitee And again Joey Bard is coming in as a non roster invitee. I don't know that we need to really talk about him because I mean everybody kind of knows the situation Asian with With Joey but the other one that people don't know about his name is Tyler hyneman very unusual to have a switch hitting catcher. I'm not sure why You don't have a lot of switch hitting catcher but it is unusual. What can you tell us about him yet? Originally Houston for a long sometime and then in in bounced so last couple of years to different couple different teams and his big league debut last year but mostly has been at the younger levels in the League's He's always had good bats You're probably not going to see a Lotta raw power out of them. I wouldn't anticipate but you're GONNA see doubles you're GonNa see a guy that's on base alive alive and you know a a dependable player behind the plate who who has a chance to really You know maybe challenged for You know time and San Francisco some point this year and in series Atta I know we we like them. A lot of actually my brother in the Arizona Fall League early one on your about five or six years ago. I remember him. That's not the reason we signed a by any means but I just kinda remember seeing them whenever I visited and always kind of liked him personally and house right excited Far On and and others Zag Minassian in these guys. was able to Go go get him. ENRO- like him. Okay a one last question about the two catchers This kind of a very important as we've learned with buster Posey After watching him for a decade. But you know there are some catchers who are a really good offensively offensively. Maybe maybe not as good on the defensive side summer the other way around it's the the rare catcher who is a really good hitter who provide sort of gold glove quality on on defense where do trump and higham sort of stand in their defensive profile. I think we both we like most defensive profiles and that's a big part on it's easy to look at the you know the baseball reference her finger off stage on their offense but You know in general on catching usually start with the with the defense and then and it works the offense. That's next so to speak and and these are guys that we feel can can more than adequately hold her own mind place as a major league players For US Steve Start to consider him and then in offense of profile is the bonus that separates them from others. Okay in the last player I was hoping to ask you bat an outfielder and when I when I look at a non roster outfielder and see that. He's twenty four years old at kind of raise my eyebrows a little bit and not raise my eyebrows raises. This is my interest because This is a definite area of need for the giants. A right handed hitting outfielder and his name is Jamey Westbrook. I believe you got him. While he was a minor league free agent and signed him to a minor league deal. He was with the diamondbacks What can we expect to see from Jamie Westbrook? I imagine we'll see him get some innings in the Alpine this spring. Yeah I I think. We're all curious to see that because he was a top high school in in the Phoenix area. There that's why he's a minute free agent so young because he signed original contract so young and you got good tools inc.. He can run a little bit not a burger. We're by any means but but it can can hold his own with his foot speed. He's got some power innocent doubles. He's done a little bit of everything. I think what you're starting to see. Is it just more rounded players and we talk about a lot of these guys and and we're hopeful that You know he fits that as well. Just a well. Rounded player can do a little bit of everything and not not necessarily on one standout skill but I think we're all looking forward to now. Seeing these guys were closed and not necessarily have to look at them. You Know House. A member of the different organization wonder being more the final details about where they fit into our plans so now to get them in our system and see how they compare our guys in where they fit in big roster construction move okay. We'll listen you have been very generous with your time doing these two podcasts. I probably kept you longer than I should have But we really appreciate it. I think that the fans are GONNA get a lot out of this so When they do start listening to the Games and coming to the Games they'll have a little bit of the insight on on some of the players that they are seeing and I just want to thank you again for The time that you took to spend with us on no common. There's always talk giants baseball. That's for sure. Okay thank you. Thank you for listening to this. Giant splash. PODCAST we'll have more in the lead up to spring training. And and of course many podcasts. Once we get to Scottsdale Arizona in February giants double-play is part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is editor in chief. If you like this show please subscribe. Tell a friend or give us a review you can support giants double play a lot of great journalism. With subscription to the chronicle Nicole there are print and digital editions you can find out more at SF CHRONICLE DOT com slash. Subscribe if you WanNa find me on twitter. I am at Hank. Shulman one or you can email me at H.. Showman at S._A._F.. CHRONICLE DOT COM.
"Always Be My Maybe" star Randall Park and director Nahnatchka Khan
"Celebrate the tenth anniversary of Disney Pixar award winning film up when the San Francisco symphony performs the music to this new classic live on the big screen, July twenty sixth and twenty seventh tickets and info at four one five, eight six four six thousand or visit SF symphony dot org. Mission to. From our nine oh, one mission street studios. You are listening to the San Francisco Chronicle. Welcome to date book podcast. I'm chronicle pop culture. Critic, Peter Hart lob here with senior digital editor Mark. Karmen dosa, welcome Mari car high happy to be back. So we had a visit from the makers of always be my maybe today. Yes. Vandal park. And not Shikan. Randall is the leading man in always be my maybe. He's co starring with Alli Wong and is the director for the film Randall in worked together on fresh off the boat as well. Rondos, the star the creator of that sitcom which has recently been renewed on ABC. I know you enjoyed this new movie we talked about it. I think the day after you saw the movie but it's clear there were personal reasons why you were happy that the movie came out. Yeah, I have to give this. Disclaimer, I'm gushing just a little bit. And in this interview, but it's because I didn't grow up with a rom com where the leads were Asian American. In. It just was so great to see it on screen, I'm happy to know that it's going to be on net flicks on Friday may thirty first and I'm going to be able to watch it over and over and over again with my family. Even yeah. It's, it's also a very San Francisco movie so that checked, another box for me. And that made it very special. A lot of the scenes are shot near my hood. So it's pretty cool. Very fun conversation. There's some light spoilers. A lot of talk about San Francisco. Talk about Randall parks, early rap career. Yeah. We brought that up a little bit. I could not get them job any bars, guys. So I'm sorry about that. We're going to get him. Next time. Datebook podcast. Thanks for listening. Hi. I'm king Kaufman and shoots. Yours. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days, gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story and then we'll return you to yours. When did you get in San Francisco? Did you just get in today this morning? We got in yesterday. Yeah. And we did. We've been doing some stuff for the movie last night in an all day today, did Allie, give you any recommendations on where to go. Or do you have you felt like you know, the city enough now navigate she took us to what was that dim someplace, cityview city view? Delicious for lunch today was amazing. And then she, she went to the Aren de lounge. She's always going to the. Orangina for the crabs so good. And then turtle tower. And the tender line that delivered often. Do you. Well, cool. I mean and, and actually, it was Elliot's decision to, to shoot always be my. Maybe here in the city. Is that right? Well, it was a definitely her upbringing here. Played a huge part in that making it into the story. Yeah, it kind of made sense to, to. Well, for us, when we started riding we really like the idea of, you know, a lot of kind of classic movies where the city is actually almost like a character in the movie, and San Francisco, just seemed like the perfect kind of place to set our story. Yeah. I was actually in Anna how what parts were actually shot in San Francisco, because I know some weren't right? Many of them shot in San Francisco. But yeah we should some of it in Vancouver. And then we came out here last July and shot out here so we shot there in the Richmond district all the childhood stuff their homes markets and Sasha. We shot at the farmers market at the Civic Center, just right down the street. Yeah. So by there, and I we lived that moment in the movie my mind. I was so much fun to shoot there. And also, it was interesting because they were like you could have control of some of it, but not all, you know, the farmers market was in like operational that day. So I you know, I wasn't sure how that was going to be like, are people gonna be looking at the camera like, how's it going? Nobody cared. We were there. They were there for the produce. And it was so much fun to like there's a the shot that we wound up using the movie, you can see if you watch it again, like Allie, sorta gets jostled like as she's coming to see Randall, and those were just, straight up shoppers were not extra. Trying to get the cucumbers. Did not care, I do have to say though, I noticed the commenced street shot that was not here. That was not. What, what was the choice there? Why not do it like say on grand avenue or something like that, in Chinatown? I think it was a scheduling issue, you know, because we, we wanted it to be a, you know, set in that area, sort of Clement street area have that look you know, so it looked different than sort of the China town that you've seen a lot of movies we like the vibe of it when we came back here scouting, but then schedule wise can't remember why that, that scene moved to Vancouver. So then we had to find, you know, stretch a street in Vancouver to mimic. The San Francisco, you know, look that we wanted it was, it was definitely like a love letter to San Francisco actually shots. I know there was a lot of that there were a few shots of the Balboa theatre for more sorry. Yeah. And that meant a lot to Allie yet, right? Yeah. That whole area is very much means a lot to Allie. The sunset Richmond district. That's where she grew up. You know, a lot of her family's still out here. Mom salutes here. Brother and sister and their families. Her niece, so she was very specific about, you know, kind of what she wanted to feature in the movie and what these guys wrote on the page, you know. So when we were out here were very targeted with our scouting, Randall for you. I know you grew up in Los Angeles shooting, the movie up here, though, did it make you fall in love with San Francisco in a different way. I mean I already was in love with San Francisco. This is where my dad first moved when he came to the US he lives in San Francisco for a while. And. Also, when there was a time when I was doing standup comedy and it was around the same time Allie started, and I would come up here stay with her, and she would kind of take me to the rooms all around the city, because she at that point she already had ins, you know, throughout throughout the popular spots to perform so, so it was just a great place to work out material. And so I tried to come up here as often as I could. And and I just love it. I and I before our movie. I was shooting at man and the wasp year. So I kind of got a sense of what it was like to shoot and San Francisco and it's just such a beautiful beautiful cities. So, yeah, I was I was so happy that we've got to do it again. The views are great. So I'm sure you had a great time shooting, just like be roll. You know, we had to get all that be stuff. We got that shot of low kids running down the street, and we go up. Oh, that's shot is day two. It's like we don't know is the fog gonna are we gonna see? The bridge. Or are we not gonna see the red? You know, you can't really control it. We went out and scouted it. And every time it looked good look good. And then it was foggy that day, and you're just like rolling the dice. And we got this, you know, this great image of these two little kids, sort of running towards the bridge, and then seeing them out in the city and, you know, we shot all of the, the maximal restaurants with Keanu. That was all shot here we shot at the Jewish museum we shot in the penthouse Fairmont, we just shot you know as much as we could out here. I have to admit I saw he on you on the street. So I live near Fairmont, and we were coming out of the masonic garage, and I had to tell my fiancee to stop, like, really like, hey, there's somebody walking, and it was Keanu almost like, are you seeing John wick, I save John? Nick being ran over by little. This during the film when we were shooting because he was walking there. And he walked into the Fairmont so that I was stalking him or anything. No. That's that's awesome, though. So let's talk about the casting for he can. I ask like did Allie ask for him to do that? Did you come up with with having Kiani play well early on while we were writing we were we wanted this person to be Marcus worst nightmare. And he shows up at a time when Marcus finally ready to admit his love to, to a professes love to, to Sasha. And, and then she has a new boyfriend and what would be like the war scenario of the worst person for Marcus. And, and, and the way Allie puts it is, you know, we wanted to get someone who was Asian American who was a, a movie star or someone icon, ick someone who is a great actor and someone who could be funny and someone who was would be open to to poking fun at themselves. Elves, and I mean really there's. There's really only Keanu. Whittle that list. Oh, yeah. But we didn't think we'd get him. I mean, what are, you know, if you want Kiana when you're mode at the chances, you're actually going to get. But we somehow we somehow God him can you talk to me? Well, you know, at a time, during entertainment, the entertainment industry and representation and fair representation. It was very clear in the film that you guys weren't like falling into those stereotypes of characters in the film didn't check off a particular boss, Marcus, the character that you play always be my maybe he's not a technique. So were were, there conscious decisions was was it easy because these people were already exist in your life. You know, Asian Americans that actually are your friends like this. Or how did you guys go about the characters in each never a conscious decision like, oh, we're going to avoid stereotypes with every character? It was just a kind of an real organic process. And I think one thing that alley, and I am not. One thing that we share. I think as we get excited by things that are new and different and, and interesting. And and it's just more interesting to, to do things that haven't been done before. And so, and at the same time, a lot of these characters, yet, these people, we know, these are people we grew up with these people. We identify with. So it just kind of organically, all just happened and. Yeah. And, and now we look back in. It's like oh yeah. We avoided a lot of stereotypes, or we like, you know, delve into new places and, and new types of characters, but really, it was just us trying to tell the best story. I think it said pretty awesome. How as you as the leading man. I think maybe initially people would not have seen you in that role that you've fit it. So, well, I actually was talking to friend who said. And I hope this isn't offensive but he said. Your. Pretend like I'm not a fan. He's like Randall park is like the Asian Tom Hanks. Oh my gosh. Hi compliment. Because it was just like your, your sweet, you're the guy next door. You're pretty damn handsome. I can say that too. I like to say that he's a snack out here on the street. That's how I like to introduce Randall. Ancient Tom Hanks? Are we going to see more of you and wrong coms, perhaps, I don't know? Maybe I mean, we'll see what you know what, what happens next, but that's really nice to hear. And yeah, I you know, if I'm a snack, I'm snap. I'll take it. I hope we see more of your Ron calms because you're, you're so good in this. So I'm excited for people to see it. And I know you have actually also said when I compare this, when I described this film to people, I say it's like when Harry met Sally, but Asian, and I kind of cringe when I say that because I feel like gosh, why do I have to have as a qualifier? Except like I have to have it as a qualifier, because there was not this kind of rom com when I was growing up. I think this is really great. They, you are the Asian to'mix now for this different generation, what do you think about that, though? The having to have that qualifier. I think it's I think I it doesn't bother me. I mean, I think it's I think it's natural for a lot of people to see it that way. And I think it's I think it's great. He now I think ultimately the most important thing is that we, we made a great movie, you know, and, and a really funny movie a movie with a lot of heart, and, and that's the main thing, but, but, you know, the acknowledgement of the Asian -ness of it all, or the, the, the woman this of it all, or that, you know that all of that is great. It's great. I think it also kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about, how like each of these characters kinda subvert stereotypes in a way. It's, you know, in every every step of the way, I think, you know, these guys in myself like we made the choice to. So, you know, for example, when you meet random character and present day and his dad comes in smoking weed, dancing front of mirror. The tip. Ical sort of agent. Dad response would be to kind of like knock that down into like, you know, outrage whatever. And he's all right. We'll come on. Let's go, you know, sich acute scene. Yeah. And they, they have a dance battle instead and you haven't really again, like that's not a big sort of, you know, glaring flashing item. But when you're not used to seeing these things, I think every choice like that, to me is sort of like, like a quiet revolution. In a way, you know, because it's like we're not taking the road that we've seen before or maybe the easier choice Randall living at home. You know being like he's not like a loser who lives in his dad's basement, you know, he's great at what he does. He's a rapper alley being strong businesswoman like she. She isn't like in shoulder pads. It's not dynasty where she comes in and fires. Every, you know, she give me ambitious and also afraid and you know knows what she wants and then, you know, cries in the in the meat freezer. So I think, you know, painting characters with sort of unexpected strokes is, is something that were, you know? Sighted to do. Yeah. I have to point out, one of their many, many of my favorite scenes in here. But there's this great part in the movie for me. It really resonates. There's a scene, where these two little girls are running inside the house, and then running outside the house. And when they run in they take their shoes off. And then they put their shoes back on outside. It was a seamless shot. And I find like when you when you watch these films with Asian racket characters and they'd talk about taking their shoes off there. So overt about it like they have to explain it to their white friend, or whatever this, there were other scenes to where, like alleys taking off Raju's where she gets and there's no Spanish in there. It was says natural as putting your car keys on the kitchen counter. When you get home and I love that was that a conscious decision on your part to make that thing. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, you know, when we talked about for, as for every scene, I, you know, always ask a, comma, get into the scene how my get out of the scene was the point of the scene in the bigger story. And that coming into, you know, the birthday party sequence I wanted energy. I wanted to establish where we were. And so following these two little girls gives us energy that running in their giggling, they're laughing and then the, the real of it like we're saying is, that's what they would do. You know that's what I did. That's what everybody did growing up. That's what you know, is true to this area, and these people, you know. So it's like without making a big scene isn't about that. But that's part of this world that we're creating that we're inviting audiences into, to sort of feel like they can connect on this on this level. And it was, you know, it was very it was like you're saying, a one shot, you know, tracking shot. So it was very wit to do it a few times to get the timing. Right. And but it was worth it. You know, and saw scenes like that or moments like that, they're, they're not written into script. You know, we didn't write in the script two little girls run into the house. Stop. Take off the shoes. Brent through the house pick, you know, we didn't write that. But I think it's a testament to not and the, the importance, the, the acknowledging the importance of those details. And, and, and making sure that those details are right Hinault. The just the little the little things that kinda give the scene a moment like that flavor. You know that couldn't have been done. I don't think if it wasn't for the fact that you guys actually grew up with that kind of that, that was in your back on that was. That's what you guys did at home. Right. Yeah. And that's again, why I think representation matters in, in the industry. I don't know. Are we at a point where people are getting sick of hearing that during the media, rents tour is about like, oh, what do you think about representation? No, I made it so important. You know what I mean? Like you never really strived. You're just trying to make the best thing that you can make right. We're trying to make the best movie possible and to me like. Doing something. Well is the best form of representation, you know. So it's like we're out here, you know powder this movie, and the fact that people are bringing representation is important because it means that we're doing something right? You know, people are wanting notice connect to it, and notice, exactly these small things that, you know, you never really know when you're doing are people going to respond to this unique notice. And so it's, it's satisfying. So the first time I watched this film, I was one of the lucky ones to get even more than once. Yeah. I immediately text message my sisters, and they both have kids, I, I don't have any kids, but I, I consider that my kids. Right. So, and I told him you have to watch it and when they're young but when the kids are old enough to be okay with the sexiest. Like you know, they should watched it. I told my sisters that. And, you know, honestly, going up again, didn't have any of this. I wonder if my like my love life would have changed, if I had watched this, do you think about, like how this may how this may affect this new generation that will have this as their sixteen candles, or you know, pretty in pink? No. I haven't thought about that too much. But that is that is like real interesting that, that. Yeah. I think it will have an effect on people. I don't know if it'll have like a profound immediate effect, but it's one of those things over time, you know, that, that, that, that does make a difference, especially if, if there's other things like it that, that get made and just over time, seeing these images and normalizing these, these portrayals, you know, I think they do shape, the shape, our lives Randall, and I talk about also like when we were growing up, we didn't expect to see ourselves. It wasn't like looking for myself. And I just was never a thing. You know, I don't think I like I didn't grow up thinking, you know. Oh like advocating for it. But when I saw it finally, you're like, whoa, you don't realize you've been missing it until you see it. Yes. And so hopefully now that they're more things like it, you know, the new general like, you know, your, your nieces and nephews and my niece and nephew will see this in in they expect to see themselves and to me, that's also progress. Right. Because it's like going from not even having that, as an option to now, searching it out and having things that you can kind of, you know, gravitate towards to me, that's a big big step in the right direction, definitely. And that actually brings me the fresh off the boat. Congratulations on the renewal of the new season shows like that. I mean again like my niece and nephews that is their full house, like they've been watching it since the first season because I made them watch it at my came to visit me, and I was like this is what we're gonna watch, you know, and, and, and now it's just a part of their regular programming. And so, again, I think it's really important to have it as an option. But yeah, congratulations on the on the renewal, I spoke with Jimmy Yang recently. And, and he's excited to see it. I hope we see more of horse in what, what can you tell me about season six? I mean you know, we're just starting up getting the writer's room together. I think that one of the things that we've done on the show is the show has sort of moved through time as we've moved through time. So, you know, came out in two thousand fifteen so in the show it was nineteen ninety-five. So it's always going to be twenty years behind us. So this year, they're going to deal with stuff like around Y, two K, which I think is very. Bring me back. The computers are rising up, like we're all gonna get water and tuna fish go. You know, protect ourselves. So I just it's fun to kind of look back and see what was going on twenty years ago, and kind of, you know, build stories around that as the creator of fresh off the boat. You're great ally for Asian Americans and entertainment. And so, I, I do want to know your thoughts on, like what's next for what can Hollywood do for representation Asian Americans and people of color in general. I think, you know, personally, I think that people in Hollywood who have the power to make decisions who light projects movies TV shows, the more projects that they see working the more that they understand that there's an audience for these things. The more stories get to be told, you know, and I think it's just about opportunities. So it's understanding that whatever your version of events has been, you know, you always hear the reasons of like why something hasn't gotten a green light before this, you know, it doesn't sell internationally. It doesn't, you know comedy doesn't translate outside of the US. You know, there's these all these sort of industry thoughts that have been around for a long time. And then something comes out and breaks through that and shows that that's not the case, I think not to get to sort of big with the thought, but something like net flicks and all these streaming platforms that are coming out have sort of up ended everything that people thought they knew. And they're offering movies like, you know, always be my maybe and to all the boys, I've loved, and just like different stories with different protagonists. And I think the more opportunity there is just you have to keep going. And you, you understand that was doing anyone any favors? You know what I mean? It's like you're we're all out here. Trying to make something we can all benefit from this. Yeah. Awesome. I do wanna go back to always be my maybe and your your rap game. And the bay area nuts too as well. I mean lyrics born is in it. I know done Dan, the automated helped with the music, I think I saw cameo by DJ Huber. So can you talk to me about your your rap game? Really? I mean I understand you, you were an while out with. I believe you collies wasn't a band and the van was very similar to the banned. You see in the movie, except we were younger at the time the band. The band in the movie was is it was, essentially what, what would the ban be like, if they kept going that band, and they're now in adults and still playing, and we'd probably be just like the band and the movie was the band name in Iligan Iligan alive. Instruments and up except we had, like, two, rappers and a little trivia in the scene, where Allie when such googling Hello peril. Those are real pictures of random elegant photos hearing his elegant airlines. Super young. But, but yeah, it you know, it just wasn't the music was was real important to the movie, and it was important that it'd be good. And, and that we capture a certain sound that was a little bit of a throwback sound because this guy is kinda stuck in, in, in a time, you know, and, and yet we Dan, the automated, or we gave him the parameters easer for instruments in this band play with those for instruments, and he came up with these beats that were just amazing and lyrics born in the band, which is like, so wild. And yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Do you. I'm sure everybody asks, but can you like freestyle still is that still on your thinking? But you wrote all those lyrics, though. I did. I did. It was fun there, selfies those. So I was, you know, I sat through the whole credits just. Yeah. That's that's amazing. One more question. So going back to the sex scene. I know there's a lot of talk about how, you know, seeing Asian Americans or Asians, doing like sex scenes in film, and TV, or are not very, it's not common. Can you talk to me about that scene? And I, I believe it's, it's based off a your store, your virginity losing. Gosh, that really got out there. Yeah. It was. I mean it was something that we in, in the room, we were, we were trying to figure out how to. Had a create this moment, where leading up to this big fight and, and. It just I offered this story that actually happened to me and. Notch and Allie. And they were the team. We're just like let's do it. But it in the script in the made it into the script, and it's, it's it's very strange. That he said that he was after the, you know, that you and your high school friendly, Virginia. Whatever you had a very awkward, like encounter after that, McDonalds. And they didn't know how to be around each other. And I love that, you know, I like I love that sort of the aftermath of that now what do we do this whole big thing is just happened? And we were looking up at the manual, you know, it's above the counter staring at it, and we did not wanna look at each other. Staring at the menu for what seemed like hours, you know and, and that. Yeah, that was in there. Viz pretty hilarious. I think a lot of people will be able to relate. I think we'll see. Anything else you'd like to tell a area fans about always be my may be and how they I mean this will probably be on everybody's Q like over and over again. I think it's really fun to watch over and over again because you can catch all these little subtle things. It's great. I just hope people like it. And if they like it, I hope they. Yeah. Watch again, Tele friend and, and. Yeah. That, that, that's really it was really such a great experience. Like making this movie with people I love like notch an alley. And in the whole team, it was just such a joyful experience. And and, and I just love for the audience to take a little bit of that what, you know, watching the movie and, and hopefully, they'll, they'll feel the same coming out of it. Hey sorry about that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just want to cough my agreement. Okay. Like exclamation. Thank you so much again, for stuffing in here at the chronicle. We really appreciate you guys taking the time, counting us funding banks. You are listening to the San Francisco Chronicle, thanks to Mari Carmen, dosa and our guests notch Khan and Randall park. Our producer today is me. Peter Hart lob supervising, producers king Kaufman and Libby Coleman executive producers Tim O work, and our editor in chief, is Audrey Cooper, our music is midnight special buy ease Jammie, jams. Read columns and subscribe to the chronicle WWW dot SF chronicle dot com. Chronicle podcasts on apple podcasts and other streaming services. Listen at WWW dot as chronicle dot com slash podcasts.
Introducing Catcher Austin Allen
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and Fun Kaufman? I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts owned welcome to as plus the San Francisco Chronicle's podcast on the Oakland A.'s. And Major League Baseball. I'm your host chronicle as beat writer Susan's Lesser Today. Our guest is new. As catcher Austin Allen acquired in the jerks and profile deal with San Diego in December Austin Allen. We'll talk about his quest to make the as roster and about his background as a catcher before we get to the as plus interview with new as Catcher Austin Allen. One have a say in the chronicle podcasts cover. We WanNa know what you WanNa hear. We WanNa make our podcast better the chronicle and who better than you to tell us how to do that. Take Our short survey at SF CHRONICLE DOT COM slash podcast survey? And if you complete it you'll be entered in a drawing for one of five one hundred dollar gift cards we really want to know what you think that's SF chronicle dot com slash. Podcast survey our guest today on as plus is new. As catcher Austin Allen who came over in the Dirksen profile deal in December first of all asked him. What was that like for you Getting traded and and you know how was it finding out what was the whole process like I was just hitting up at the cages and You know I got a phone call from the padres. Gm and he just told me that a trade happen and that I was Involved in it so you know just basically said our goodbyes. And then you know after that the emotion started come you know. Start to think about all your buddies at our with the padres. You're not going to be with anymore and You know and then you start looking forward to the team that you're going to go with and that's I was excited. You know as soon as I got that call I everything that they did for me over. There is great I'm I'm definitely happy to be kind of a strange situation right. Little bit bitter sweet. You know a team that's acquiring wants to you but you are leaving kind of everything you know in in baseball to that point. Yeah you know. I'm I'm just thankful that the as believe in me. You know I'm coming here. GonNa get an opportunity to show what I got and compete every day Yeah so I mean. It's definitely a good feeling knowing that They like you said they wanted me so I'm happy now. You had your first major league call up last year with a with a padres in. May Tell us what that experience was like for you. It was fine. You know it's everything that you ever. It's everything that you dream of and I found out when I was in triple A. I got taken out after my second bad. And then Let's hold. I was going to the big leagues so I started calling everybody. And just telling them to book their flights Up to Colorado and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It was You know it's definitely some that I've worked my entire life for and you know now I'm trying to make the opening day roster so Just got a lot more work to do. And now I've got a whole new staff. I gotTA learn but you guys here that I got to become familiar with You know it's definitely a challenge. I'm up for it. Did you know many of the guys I know you came from you. Come from St Louis. We were just talking about the fact that you know a couple of guys classroom. Saint Louis but do you know any of the other as from having played against them in the minors or having played with them in the minors. Yeah Playing playing against everybody since High A. So I know like Seth Brown Sean Jona I know all those guys and we basically have been planning against each other since high. You know Double a San Antonio. They're all Midland. And you kind of build that relationship with guys just playing against some you talk to them when they're in the box when you step in the box you talk to Merv You know so. It was definitely gooden having a little bit of that relationship Some of those guys already. Coming in and Sean Murphy are both very young and have sort of similar amount of experience in the big leagues teams often like to have a veteran catcher in a younger catcher. What do you think of the fact that you and shown a high and Sean? You're all pretty young and and Joan hasn't even had a call up yet. But you're you're kind of the guys that are really looking at. Yeah I mean it's cool me me Joan Sean. We're going out there every day. Trying to help each other better We just want to win a world series win. I don't see why I don't think age has anything to do with it. This whole team is young. We don't really have like many old guys so I don't think that being young is an excuse to not win. You know The experiencing. Yeah I get it like that plays but you know. We have our game plans and with our staff. It's GonNa be you know it's going to be pretty easy. Now you've always been known for your bat obviously have power hit for average. You can kind of do everything but Has that always been sort of the strongest part of your game. Is that something that becomes a little bit easier for you Yeah I think so. I mean when I was younger and growing up I wasn't that good so I mean I just spent I he. I'm it wasn't really like recruited colleges and stuff like that Just kind of overlooked in the process. So I mean I just been going to work every single day. Trying to perfect my craft and I've always loved ending and you know I love catching to it's got its challenges and it's fun and it's difficult. Sometimes you have those up and downs but I just like playing baseball really like I just have so much fun out here. There's nothing else that I wanna do or you know I. I don't even think about anything else that I'd rather do this this everything that I've ever wanted turn yourself into a good hitter. Then how did how did that happen? I there's a bunch of people that helped me out you know. I don't even like when I was younger. Richard gleaned grown up he was my hitting coach and then go into College Matt Me Curio. He helped me out. He taught me so much about hitting. You know my dad. He's still my hitting coach to this day and he never really been played baseball It's kind of one of those things you take bits and pieces from everybody else and try to figure out how your body moves and what gets you the most consistent position every time swing hard really but hours ours in the cages at late at night when nobody else's air you know just stuff like that. Have you always been a catcher? Did you convert to catch her at some point Sort of catching like my sophomore year. High School so I I guess I jumped into Leitner. Some I don't really know but I always played like third base and first base growing up. What do you like about catching I? I like working with the pitchers. It's fun you know everybody's got a different personality You know you got to figure out which guys you can like. You can push a little bit. You know some guys that you you know you just kind of go with them and Receiving's fun blocking his throne guys out. It's just everything about it is fun you know just playing baseball being out there on the field every day is what is what keeps bringing you back your in every pencil in your catching the whole field in front of you. All of that kind of controlling the game in some aspects. Yeah for sure You know we're the field generals out there. Everybody's looking at the looking at us and we get to see everybody. You know So we kind of direct traffic like that. We'll be back in just a moment with more from Austin Allen and what he's doing to try to become a better defensive catcher. Hello Heather Knight. Hello Peter Hart Lab. You may have heard from the east coast media and even the White House that San Francisco has literally become a toilet and we completely disagree. The big event podcast is becoming total. Sf and we're going to highlight with still great about San Francisco will interview colorful characters share history pay tribute to our favourite. Sf movies and just have fun to listen for the cable car. Total ESA wherever you get your podcasts. As saying you know what I know about you is. You've always been kind of known for your bat. And I know catching his area. Where people think you've really improved in the last year or two that really been an area of emphasis for you one hundred percent Like I believe in my bad like I know the work that I put in You know in the cages and MVP and stuff that my bats gonNA play You know you know no matter what. I'll I put all my eggs in the basket with that one But Defense Yeah like it was definitely one of my weaknesses and for the past two years. I've just been getting after trying to improve and you know become the best player that I can do. You feel like you are Getting a lot better at and what areas do you feel like? You still might need some work everything really I mean. You're never finished product. My receiving last year I was a positive receiver So that's definitely a plus you know my blocking has improved every year my throwing the throwing percentages whatever that that's a lot of that is depending on the pitcher you know But just being consistent throwing you know just making sure. I'm below two on the bag every time and that's all I can really do. You have a pretty strong arm. I I guess I don't really know I I don't know but you see people with strong arms have slow pop times and you see people with the weakest arms and they have very good pop times. Yeah exactly you know. I'm just trying to get down there at a good time and on the on the bag. Now how are things been for you and camp so far? When did you show up I got in last Thursday. Yeah so kind of a spin hanging out here. Talking to as many people as I can meeting everybody I love it here. It's everybody's just do your work and take it seriously and expect to win. No you're good and go out there and play baseball catcher's perspective coming to a teen has a rotation that's basically set and has a lot of ability and I know you've seen some of those guys in the in the minor league level And that also has a pretty established bullpen. That's gotTa be pretty ideal for you. Yeah it's you know it's only GonNa make it easier on me Sean and Jonah you know. We got horses out there. We can just ride along with them. And you know I'm GonNa take our take our chances with our with our starting staff and even our bullpen. You know we got. Liam closing down and then we have vets even though our rotation is kinda young. We've got you know the MANIACI the Bassett's fires You know those guys to kind of be like the leaders of that group. Yeah so it's GonNa be fun. Did you face puck and Lazardo ever? Oh Yeah what was your impression of them. A grooten really good nasty. I Dunno everything everything. That's that's good that you want to hear about a pitcher tough ads all the time. I you might have to ask Zeus but I think in double A. I of got him a little bit yeah. Aj Ice Oh yeah of course I have to let them know I got a I got to remind them all the time but Now I mean those guys are nasty and everybody knows it and they're going to be studs for a long time so I'm definitely glad that I get to catch them and I don't have to face them nightly talking about you'd be from Saint Louis and you said that an ORF and Brian Howard. Were both playing in that area. When when you were a kid tells a little more especially about Brian Howard. He's real tall kid. Who's in his first big league camp this year and I was a little surprised at his baseball player. Because he's I think he's six ten you think he might be seven one. You don't really know he's huge. He's long and Lanky. He's got deception Yeah like being from Saint Louis Me and Brian We. He was on the He's a year younger than me but he played a he was a stud and all that so he played up on the eighteen. You Travel Ball team that I was with and he was good then went to. Tcu Shove there. And he's been doing very well in Pro Ball. You know so. I'm excited for him for his first. Big League camp might be a little nervous. But you know I think I think Having Me Sean Jones bacteria is going to be able to calm down a little bit and he was. He's a little bit older than me so you I never got to play with him but Growing up our travel ball coach always would always say he was the best hitter from that program. So you're going to have to ask him about that. Did you. Wind up facing Brian at all in the minors. Did you see that Turkey that he throws the Turkey so I don't know he? He's nasty though he he's he's able to mix it up at anytime that he wants to know when he's got that link So that ball definitely gets upon. You feels like he's releasing their right out in front of home plate But now he's GonNa be good. He's got command of all his pitches and he's a competitor out there so I I'm definitely excited for What he's going to show this can't now. Is there anything else that we should know about you since you're today's organization? What else do you like to duty of off field hobbies or interests that are unusual or anything else Kind of fun. I'll golf a little bit. I watch like HBO Netflix. All the all the shows like that y'all binge-watch and I'll play I bounced between like workaholics entourage. I've I've seen every episode of entourage but I'll still go back and watch it. Yeah it's unbelievable Game of thrones which are pretty much everything that's like popular. Yeah I don't really like steer off. I watch a lot of like documentaries and stuff. Yeah Yeah what do you want to know? If you've got anything fun or background I want to you deal with your Labra doodle. Yes yeah. He's the best griffey. Oh after can't yet junior senior after you having. Yeah no but yeah or just a Griffey Fan. I mean I think everybody who griffey cardinals fan may be. You have to be growing up but I mean I don't know I grew up. I was never really like a die. Hard for the cardinals. Love Yati like love Alber when he was there You know just Allen Craig like the two thousand eleven team that was unbelievable you know and what it did for Saint Louis and for Baseball. It did it. It kind of puts Saint Louis on the map a little bit. You know for being a baseball town so it was before that. But that's just for my for my memory for a catcher. It seems like got your Molina would be a great guy to kind of have one of your favorite player so you feel like you kind of learn some stuff from from watching him and being a fan of yours. Oh Yeah for sure you know. He's just so good back he's so calm back there he's you know he's just easy with everything so I like. I like watching him do all that stuff. Like he's just he's a hall of Famer he's a he's a living legend in the game of baseball. I've talked to him a few times and he's he's awesome. You know and I hope one day somebody can look up to me like that you know like I looked up to him when I was growing up. That has a nice place to sign off on this edition of as plus but Austin Allen best select you. Thanks for joining us on as plus. Yeah thank you for having me. Thanks again to Austin Allen for joining us on as plus our producers today were g Allen Johnson and King Kaufman. We will back next week with more. As plus thanks for listening as plus as part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is the editor in chief. If you like this show please subscribe. Tell a friend or give us a review follow me on twitter at Susan's lesser. Or you can email me at s lesser at SF Chronicle Dot Com support as plus a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle there are print and digital editions find out more at SF chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
General Manager Scott Harris
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it wherever you get your podcasts alone and welcome to the giants Flash. I'm Henry Shulman the chronicles beat reporter and for the first time we welcome giants general manager Scott Harris with less than a month to go before spring training in two months since Hans. -IETY heart higher Scott from the cubs. You seem like a good time to catch you up and we even have some news on a new starting pitcher How Scott and walk into the splash by the way? Thanks for having me honest I Yeah you should have more podcast. 'cause we we announce things every time you have Scott on your pocket that's right this is called metrics. It's one one for one hundred percent even and even thirty three percent will get you into the hall of fame. He'll be on tomorrow too. Yeah exactly and then we'll have the CASTANOS Prescott never mind scratch that I do want to ask a little bit about just your Your return to San Francisco and and the job but I mean we're not supposed to bury the lead you guys did sign left handed ended starter drew smiley to a one year contract Just before we got on the phone record this podcast. He was a very good pitcher with the Detroit. Tigers when when he first came up even pitched a few innings in the world series against the giants in two thousand twelve was involved in a pre in a trade with David price and then he had elbow trouble of. Of course you had Tommy John so I guess the question is What is it that you saw about Smiley Including what gave Kappler saw about him last year with the phillies. That makes you thank thank. You can contribute this year yet. We've been working on Trying to sign drew For several weeks now and We're excited to to finally get it done and and bake him a giant As you alluded to Drew was one of the more promising young. Left starters in the game Just a few years ago Especially when he was in Tampa Bay as a twenty five year old and We really took notice In in my prior job in Chicago I'll go of drew success and Unfortunately he succumbs to Tommy John Surgery in July of two thousand seventeen and has sort of our in struggling to get healthy Since then and last year when he was with Texas in Philly he WHO's battling through several injuries Including in a in ankle injury impeded his ability to drive off the rubber But in the second half of last year he started healthy Especially when he was in Philadelphia via and ended up strike now twenty six percent of hitters during his time in Philadelphia. We really like about him. Four pitch mix with weapons to attack both right handed hitters and left handed hitters and now We we believe he's fully healthy He's now in that in that sweet spot being two years removed from Tommy John Surgery and and we believe that the talent Plus the health. Make him an intriguing. Buy Low Left Anna Starter for us I also I will note. He has a past history with with both cap and me He was with cabin in Philly in the second half of last year and and we actually signed him with the cubs jobs right after he He had Tommy John and I think our relationship with drew minutes more comfortable Because we knew the character German. We knew his commitment to doing everything he can possibly do to to bring out the best version of themselves on the mound comfortable with with makeup and the person stand up and and we think he is Primed have had a big year for us in two thousand twenty and with the addition of Gausman as well pronouncing announcing his name right I it it's a little competition in camp. which is probably a good thing since you have a lot of young guys that you don't just necessarily want to have to hand jobs to is that right right and the days when you could just run out five starters For six months are are long gone. very few if any team are are able to get through a whole season even with six starters So we we were focused This off season on on trying to build some starting depth As as well as upside and and I think think think the bones of our rotation are in place right now and we're excited to to watch these guys compete spring training good word bones of the rotation bones of the roster You Know I. I think this is the second year. Oh you weren't here in in far Hans Zaidi's first off season are this. Is this your first year but this is the second year in a row that in the off off season the giants have not really made a huge splash In both the free agency and trade market I think fans saw what happened last year with drew pomeranz dance with the giant. Sign them as a Bilo possible. High reward guy ended up flipping him For pretty good young player but you know this has not been an off season where you've gone out and gotten you know any any real big name. Help for say the outfield which was something that far. Han said that he was going to try to do. I'm wondering first of all. Let me just ask this into parts Do you feel now. It's the front office. Feel that the the people you have on the forty man roster and a non roster invites right now if this is the group you're going to get to Start Spring training with next month or is there still more. That's possible including maybe Getting an outfielder with a little bit more name recognition. I don't think this is the The final group group that we're GONNA head to spring training with Far On and I and our staffs are actively working on a few different upgrades We we're working really hard to add to our rotation in pleased that we're able to do that today. We withdrew Smiley We're also working hard as empower and balance to our offense. Both both in the field and the outfield We're we're definitely not done. And we're constantly scouring all available markets to find Specifically that power imbalance in to our offense but also other upgrades And I will also note as as you saw with far last year The start of spring training is. I'm not a a deadline where you have to produce a fully baked roster We're GONNA continue to look for upgrades during spring training and during during the season But I don't think as as we sit here on January sixteenth that this is You know the final group that that you're going to Scottsdale And then On opening day okay and You know given that the market the free agent market has moved faster this year a lot faster than last year. Oddly enough Except for the outfield Argued think it's more likely that if you were able to get power. Be at the Infield or outfield that it would be more likely via a trade than free agency. Yeah sometimes sometimes there's there's an inverse relationship Between activity and free agency and activity on the trade front and I think now that a substantial portion of the talent on In in agency is is locked up with with different teams there has been more Trade activity Or at least more trade discussions and out there We're we're talking to every team At least weekly now And so there's potential for us to make additions trade as well L. is free agency We we just have to wait and see What opportunities are available to us? Okay now I think that a lot of the fans Our understanding standing now after Farhan has been in office As president of baseball operations now for more than a year kind of understanding what the giants are trying to do to build a winner from the ground up and also Over time not just a you know a one and done but I think there are a lot of folks who still wonder if you guys are are willing to sacrifice this season maybe next season To try to To build that winter and the really. Let's be honest is there. There just isn't the kind of excitement for the giants going into the twenty twenty season as there has been in past years because this has been an organization that really really has a tried to go out and win every single year and sometimes making moves that worked for the short run and maybe even hurt the team for the long run so that's kind of a long preamble to the question of how the Giants Front Office views the twenty twenty season in terms of winning as compared or to What you guys are trying to do for the long run? I would say that a goal hasn't really changed We you WANNA play meaningful competitive baseball deep into two thousand twenty as as we possibly can and while simultaneously making sound baseball decisions that proved the long term health of our organization and our future and I think it's fair to characterize the question the way you did. I I will just say that Unfortunately this goal Means that sometimes you have to make tough strategic decisions to strengthen your minor league system when at times the money could be spent to address other needs perhaps at the big league level perhaps In in other areas a I and a good example in my opinion of this type of decision is the wheel wells and trade that we made earlier in the off season we had an opportunity To to invest in the remainder of Zakho Czars contract to access A player who we really liked in the draft who ultimately went with with the fifteenth pick As polished right handed shortstop who who we believe has has a real chance to grow into The core the next young core of giants. Hi It's at the be level and and sometimes you just don't have access to that type of talent without Making strategic decisions that that seemed tough on the surface but but that we table leave and and Additionally I will say that you know sometimes it it also means making tough decisions to trade veterans who can help in in the short term but who you know can help more in the long term because they provide access to Prospects who again can can grow into the next core of the giants On a on a sustainable winter here in San Francisco in a good example of that type of deal is is a SAM dyson deal from from last July. And I I think finally It means that sometimes you have extremely difficult decisions where you need to move on from A a veteran WHO's a familiar face? Who who is Played here for a while. Just to create opportunities attorney and create a path to every day at bats for young up and coming prospects and a good example of that type of trade is is actually a trade that four hundred. I haven't made. It's it's a trade. The Brian Saving made When he traded Benjie Molina in two thousand ten to open up opportunity for a young up and coming catcher? Buster Posey and These trains are always difficult. These moves are always difficult But sometimes they work out really well and and one other point worth worth noting on on this front is I think ron and I both believe that. One of the most undervalued assets for Rowing Organization is opportunity at the big level. It's the opportunity to give young players chance to play in the big leagues. Because we feel like you can't find talent without offering opportunity. You can't capitalize on on major league development without giving a young flare chance to to make adjustments against big league pitching night in night out and you can't really find out if a young hitter Can withstand the grind of one hundred sixty two games with all the travel In front of forty thousand fans until you actually give him that opportunity to play and so we feel like we need to strike the right balance of Trying to be as competitive as possible in the short term without sacrificing our long term health and ability to win In San Francisco Bill and so much like the Benjamin Lena Trade. I think it's just important to remember that Unfamiliar names can't become familiar household. Sold names until someone somewhere creates an opportunity for them to play in the big leagues. And so we're trying to do that while we're trying to play a meaningful competitive baseball as deep into. She doesn't as possible okay. And if the listeners will hold that thought about trading veterans. I've got some more questions for Scott and I'll get to them right after this. Why it was one of Hollywood's favorite cowboys cool? Steely a law man who tamed the West. Guess what he wasn't isn't really liked that I'm King Kaufman this week on not your century. Join me to meet the real wider plus. Imagine yourself dodging a fifteen foot wave of molasses racing racing through the streets of Boston at thirty five miles an hour and then together. We'll go through the first edition of the San Francisco. Daily dramatic chronicle. It's not your century. It's a podcast. That's history class but five minutes long and fun. Henry showman back here with giants General Manager Pitcher Scott Harris who was just saying that? Sometimes you have to create opportunity for younger players At the expense of some familiar names. And I'm not going to ask you about any specific player player Because that wouldn't be fair and you wouldn't answer it anyway but I mean we. There are some players on the in the organization on the team. That are very familiar. They have a a good pedigrees and You know they have big contracts and Do you think there's any chance or have been any talk at all about maybe Moving some of those guys to not only create opportunity but also to bring some younger players into the system. Not Right now I would say if you you if you talk to the the guys that you're looting to A think almost to a man they they think that The two thousand nineteen virgins of of themselves are not the best That they can offer and they're working extremely hard this offseason to make sure that they come into camp In shape gave and ready to go and and and ready to continue to build to build on very decorated resumes in San Francisco. And we think that that we didn't going to I think there there's a A belief in inside these walls that we need a healthy mix between veterans and young players Because we think those those two demographics tend to push push each other and they tend to Help each other Perform at a higher level night in and out So I don't think so right now. I think we're excited to bring back a core veteran leaders here that are that are going to help some of the young players assimilate to the big leagues quickly But also who are gonNA perform in their own right Because they've done a year in and year out and expecting them to two thousand twenty. Okay I think that maybe the front office has a little bit more faith than than a lot of the fans that you're really gonNA see A big turnaround. And let's be honest. Buster Posey's Brandon Crawford Two of the two of the bigger names. You guys feel that they're still something left in those guys and belt and Longoria etc absolutely and they're working very hard to prove the doubters wrong. This offseason an Internet ship. Okay Just a few more minutes with giant general manager. Scott Harris a one name we haven't mentioned yet is Madison Bumgarner This is a very complex issue that predates predates you by by many years but You know you you guys offered Reportedly from what we've learned a four year contract. That was a little bit more money per a year than what he got from the diamondbacks who gave him a fifth year There are all sorts of opinions out there. He didn't WanNA come back You guys really wanted to move on from him You know you guys were happy to finish in second place on this one And so on and so forth the best way you can. Could you please tell us what what happened with Madison Bumgarner and why he's not a giant anymore. Yeah first of all I want to say. A lot is in had an incomparable eleven year. Run with the giants I mean in in two thousand fourteen alone He almost single-handedly for that team is back And lifted this organization to new heights and he also made his mark on on so many Current and former giants players coaches executives In this organization and We're extremely grateful for all of his contributions I put out a statement When he signed with the dog We really we really were really so appreciative. Of what. He's done here. I think. Seen Him in a diamondback uniform This this spring and and next season will be an adjustment for all of us in San Francisco. It's always an adjustment with the amount of player turnover in modern baseball. And and we really understand that As for the signing and to respond more directly to your question It has been well reported that we you're actively engaged refused representatives And we made him as a substantial offer to stance efforts Cisco But at the end of the day Madison us in his family is representatives. They all evaluated every opportunity that was in front of the they evaluated every offer in front of them And they decided to do what's best for for Madison and first family and that was to blaze a new path and a new organization in a new the city that he is very comfortable in And Madison has worked extremely hard over the last eleven years to get to this point He has worked extremely hard. You become a free agent and as a free agent. He's earned the right to decide where he wants to play. And we have to respect that as an organization However I will say fun and I have a responsibility to this organization and to the city To continue to build what we believe is a bright future in San Francisco. There's there's a lot of change happening in this organization and would that change we. We believe that there's some exciting things happening under the hood here and attend fans and And those default organization are are going to start to get to see those exciting things that are happening and and I think that's going to translate into the real value and and real winning at the level in computer and so we we appreciate everything. Madison has done for this organization and But I but we have to. We have to move towards Our our commitment to this organization and Espresso bullish. We are on the future. That we're actively shaping right now okay As promised I wanted to just As we close here ask you a couple of questions about your job itself. I mean you are a Bay area native you uh I believe. We're born in Redwood city. Released grew up in Redwood City. Your parents were both physicians in the area. What is it been like for you after two months to to sort of come back here in this kind of high visibility position where I mean the fans who follow the team your friends? Everybody who didn't know especially those who didn't no you Now see you in the near the top of the giants front office adjustment. That's for sure In in these jobs You Sometimes underestimate the exposure of of You Know News and new hires and DOC. I think I got something like six hundred text messages the the day I took the job and On on what handed is overwhelming on the other hand and It's it. It's very rewarding sense of accomplishment in that Reminds you of how many people you you've gotten to know over the years. How many people have helped shape you into the person you are today? I will also say that I am so enjoying being back in San Francisco. I'm so enjoying not having to deal with a real winter I'm enjoying Being able to take my parents out to dinner on on ran weeknights. The haven't really had that opportunity since I was in high school. Because I haven't really been back here so it is really privileged to be here and I'm just really excited for season star and and start building a really bright future here in San Francisco. Have you been excited to hear Ticket requests from friends has had actually happened. That has not started started yet. But I'm I'm sure it will It's I don't think it can be more difficult than game seven of the world series And two hundred sixty after one hundred and eight years in Chicago so I feel like I'm a grizzled veteran on the on the ticket front but Be Happy to accommodate as many as I can. Okay and just the last question Now that you've been in the Front Office for a couple of months and you've worked with a far Han and and some of the other people in the front office and as well as manager gave Kappler a do any impressions anything that surprise you at all anything that sort of strikes you. I guess what I was struck by. How quickly fawn gave an I started forging working relationships how quickly we move past kind of the pleasantries and started challenge each other about the players and challenging each other on our visions for the future of the giants I mean we. We send each other offices for several hours every day. Talking about layers talking about you know how to Deploy our players in the best position to succeed and then when we leave it we just switched to a tax chain or or phone calls and I think people outside the industry forget. How much work it takes next to build a roster and how closely you have to work with people to build a roster and so Any apprehension I had about you know working with a new group of of of people here with with our handicap and and our baseball OPS staff is already gone and I think that's much quicker than I expected here And Yeah I think that's probably a good thing for the organization Lord. Okay well it seems like There's a staff in place in the front office. There's a staff in place now on the field The roster is still a little fluid. We'll we'll see what happens in the next few weeks as we head down to Scottsdale I just want to thank you again and we hope to have you on One Spring Training begins and thereafter hundred. Thank you for listening to this episode of the giants Flash. We hope to have anymore. Before the giants head down to Scottsdale Arizona for spring training and then many more in Scottsdale giants double plays part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast casts network. Audrey Cooper is editor in chief. If you like this show police subscribe. Tell a friend or give us a review. You can support giants double play in a lot of great journalism. With subscription to the chronicle there are print and digital editions you can find out more at SAF CHRONICLE DOT com slash. Subscribe if you WanNa find me on on twitter. I am at Hank Shulman or you can email me at h Shulman at S._A._F.. CHRONICLE DOT COM.
Coronavirus Shutdown: Giants, As React
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts. I welcome you. Join episode of giant Splash as plus the San Francisco. Chronicle's podcasts on the San Francisco giants openness and Major League Baseball I'm as writer Matt Carroll Hara and today giants John Shea and I will discuss. Mlb decision to suspend spring training and delayed the start of the regular season amid the corona virus pandemic and how the Bay area's baseball teams are responding to the shutdown of America's pastime. That next on giant splash and he's plus so we're coming to you from Scottsdale Arizona. Where as with the sporting landscape and the country overall there has been a sort of a momentous shift here over the last couple of days obviously starting on sports perspective Wednesday night when the NBA announced that it was suspending its season after one of its players tested positive for the corona virus on Thursday Major League Baseball along with several other leagues and sporting organisations followed suit. And it'll be announced that it would be canceling all spring training games and suspending the regular season or pushing back the start of the regular season by at least two weeks and then just today a couple of hours ago Fred afternoon. We'll be announcing that spring training operations would be suspended. Players would be given the option of either returning to their homes Staying at their spring training facilities or returning to their major league cities so they as an giants both a little bit of a limbo situation. Right now John. I guess we can start with the giants You've been over at Scottsdale stadium for the last of days. Just overall how are the giants are responding to this situation? Right now? Will the players have not been at the ballpark the last couple of days? While the as we're going to play Thursday the giants had the day completely off on the schedule. The day was going to be dark and gave Kappler basically told everybody. Just take the day off so I was out there and I saw a couple of coaches a couple of front office officials and what a day to be off because Thursday was the day that everything dropped right after the NBA suspended Major League Baseball. Actually Play Games and Florida Thursday morning. Which was unbelievable because this was in the wake of what we found out about the NBA's Rudy Gobert. And I thought okay. That's it baseball is going to call off all the game tomorrow. The giants won't be the only ones totally on but no they played the Games in Florida. Some in Arizona got rained out anyway. Some got postponed or whatever but Yeah so it was pretty dark anyway. Over at at Scottsdale Stadium. Aside from a bunch of fans. The giants merchandise store was opened. A lot of people were were over there but it was an eerie thing. Because it sort of evolved. This story obviously we. We heard in learned about the virus. Who is an ongoing stories like every hour and it went from? Are they gonNA play without fans or they're gonNA just play in Arizona? Where we'll the season begin in. Arizona will will begin dodger stadium and they closed the clubhouse to the media and then And then once we got that alert about the NBA boom. It's suspended so everything changed in a hurry but the giants What they're doing right now is giving like you said the players the opportunity to go back to the bay area and they could work out at Oracle Park. They could stay here and Work Scottsdale Stadium or they could go home to wherever they live. They have those choices. That was the agreement between the Union and the owners. So we'll probably see a little bit of all all three. I mean a lot of the players do live here in Arizona and not only that but there's dozens and dozens of minor leaguers here just like the half so we're not just talking twenty five men. We're talking well into the forties of the major league side and much more than that on the minor league side. You have any sense of what kind of structure would be there for. Obviously since the team has been here for last month or so and they have their Arizona facility here I would assume there was. There would be a fair amount of structure for the players. He decided to stay and continue to work out here. If there are players who decided to go back to San Francisco or Or even decided to go home. Do you have any sense of what sort of structure would be for them in terms of workouts and trying to stay in baseball shape. Well the two things in I talked to Correa the bench coach under Gate Kappler boy in giant fans really need to know about this guy. He's really cool and a great interview and so much energy Giant fans are GonNa like this guy so kai spoke about the two most important things obviously a blip on the screen. Right it's not it's not The on the Front Burner Baseball so secondary you don't even see it in the rear view mirror everything else. That's going on but the health of the players and keeping the players in baseball shape We're we're hearing April ninth is opening day. I mean who really believes? That's going to happen suddenly. This thing's GonNa go away and ballparks are going to be filled April ninth now. I mean this thing's going to go on I'm sure it and even when or if baseball does decide to come back you'll probably need three weeks of spring training. That's what happened in one thousand nine hundred ninety five when the players were on strike cancelled the world series and ninety four extended into spring training and ninety five and the owners brought out these replacement players. Full of plumbers carpenters. And who knows what else Just to fill the rosters in then sure enough a couple of days before the season opener. the New Labor was resolved and they sent those guys home and the regular players came in but those players needed three weeks of spring training. So I imagine the same would happen here. In fact you spoke to Sandy Alderson about that. Yeah Sandy Alderson is a senior adviser obviously as former general manager this former. Mlb Vice President of baseball operations. He was walking through the concourse over at Ho- conceived him on Thursday. So just stop for a minute and ask about what that could potentially look like If and when the season does start to ramp back up again what would the schedule be like? How much time would need and He's made the point was as he said. It would probably be a few weeks. Needed specifically for the pitchers and position players. Maybe you would not need as much time. Obviously as a hitter you would WANNA get your timing backup and probably see some live pitching in order to do that. And it's it's hard to stay in peak midseason baseball shaped when you were not Not playing these kinds of games daily but but it's really looking out for the pictures and the pictures you need to be careful about with guys ramping up and this being kind of the ties mid March when you're starting to see some of the starters go a little bit deeper in Games. Guys are adding to their inning. Count just trying to get ready for the season. This is where you hit pause and then I don't think I don't think you pick right back up again when especially if this does turn into a longer layoff than the original. Probably overly optimistic schedule. Suggested was those pictures are GonNa really probably need to to start from if not square one at least pretty close in terms of getting ready to pitching games. Imagine the giants new manager. Gabe Kappler pretty much an entire new staff. Except for Ron Wada's thirteen coaches and all all of them your age Mattie and and and they just they just crushed it the last month getting these guys you know they him. They energized them. They're kind of a new mood in the clubhouse Very important for the veterans to sort of compete for the positions that they just almost were entitled to in the past because of their championship Glory but now. They're in competition for these roles. These these games played and everything and bringing in new guys young guys. Non-roster guys prospects. There's all these elements a work so hard over the last month and then overnight. It's all gone. Everything stopped so the pitchers who built up their pitch counts the hitters. Who got their rhythm and timing intact. We were getting where two weeks away from opening day. That's all gone so now it's back to the drawing board and trying to figure out okay. How does Johnny Cueto State Sharp? But I mean this came a day after Kappler named him the opening day starter and you know how about the rest of the rotation. What about the line of the older guys on this team? Even though it's a big rebuil- because of the contracts and what about the young guys who came in trying to impress what about the minor league signings Siamese who were added to the roster who have a chance to make all that stuff just just got so now the trick is and it's again not a major story in the whole scheme of things but it's keeping these guys sharp just in case. Whenever it happens they will be able to come back so you know a couple of guys. I'm thinking about your Sanchez and Billy Hamilton. Who kind of a couple of accomplished big leaguers but came in here and just couldn't hit it all and especially Sanchez Hamilton. You love to see his speed but he just wasn't on the basis so guys like that. A coaching staff wanted to see a lot of you. Jalen Davis another guy who struck out most every at Bat. These final two weeks. We're going to be crucial for the team. So whenever they do come back all these questions are gonNA be right there again for for the players and the staff to answer. But I don't think we're going to see this for quite a long time. No no and where I guess it's going to be when when things potentially start to ramp up. Its IT. Sounds like the transfer taking some precautions. You mentioned the deep cleaning of the clubhouse today but did you get any sense of from being at the stadium the last couple of days Kind of what? The what the VIBE was there and not only with team but just from people who might have been around there were any kind of staff or even fans milling around that. Yeah the four o'clock today. I saw a four biohazard cleaners. Who who had all this equipment dragged from this big white truck in the parking lot at Scottsdale Stadium and they hauled it into the clubhouse and they're gonna every into that place is going to be sanitized kind of an eerie feeling Because we were all in there just days ago You know shaking hands in talking and you know up close with everybody else. Lockers or just side by side and the crowd was full of people and their side by side The lines vendors. Everyone was side by side and Everything changed in a hurry and Yeah the fans were upset. A lot of them came with their kids who had never seen a spring training game and the kids were crying and the parents were bummed. Put they understood and Realize that you know. They'll another day but that giants dugout store remains packed. It remains open in fact as we speak Every day they go ten. Am to three PM. And they were thinking of Extending it to five o'clock today because all these fans who usually go to baseball games wanted somewhere to go. So they like converged at the ballpark but it was kind of strange that right next door maybe thirty feet away from the door of the merchandise store was the door the clubhouse and these four guys were in their sanitizing points. You'RE LISTENING TO GIANT SPLASH. And as plus we'll be back in just a moment. Hello Heather Knight. Hello Peter Hart Lab. You may have heard from the east coast media and even the White House that San Francisco has literally become a toilet and we completely disagree. The big event podcast is becoming total. Sf and we're going to highlight what still great about San Francisco will interview colorful characters share history to pay tribute to our favourite. Sf movies and just have fun shared a lesson for the Cable Car Bell Total SF wherever? You get your podcasts. It really is remarkable. Just how quickly this mood across the week two? Because as you mentioned I I think really the first The first mission it was taken was the closing of the clubhouses to To Media and non essential team personnel team receding personnel. Which I don't remember exactly. What data was I think? It was either Monday or Tuesday and so there were two days basically that that at least this is the way that it wasn't Mesa but two days where we is. The media can kind of gathered outside of of the as clubhouse house in the morning and two mornings is free raining so we were kind of under an overhang and later on in the dugout. Well there were puddles of rain kind of Washington from from the TARP. The infield into the floor of the DUGOUT. But you know the media relations staff we would bring out a player here and they're requested player but that was the first change and then it just accelerated so quickly into the the cancellation of games and a Thursday. As you mentioned the day that will be decided to cancel Spring Training Games that the as were supposed to play that day. They had a game scheduled for camelback ranch. Glendale is actually called off surprisingly early which you wonder if there was an indication. That games just weren't GonNa be played but I think it was about ten thirty that that they announced that the the game wasn't going to be played and it was just a very kind of odd feeling outside the clubhouse is because yes there was an indication that Major League baseball might be moving toward taking one of these sort of serious actions but there were players still come out to the wall outside clubhouse jumping rope thrown a medicine ball against the wall Couple guys just walked out and had phone calls There was still a couple of guys doing interviews related baseball March Twelfth Thursday was supposed to be the first day that the three Batterman was instituted in in spring training game so a couple of couple of left handed relievers as actually came out in answered a couple of questions about that and that was about ten thirty in the morning here in Arizona. So Emily hadn't taken their action yet so any questions about what it might be like to potentially play. Games in front of empty stadiums. Which at that point still sounded like might be a possibility. They said that they you know they had no answers that they didn't know what was going to happen. And then all of a sudden it all went away to giants actually did play a game with no buddy in the crowd and that was Jeff Samardzija and Kevin Guzman back in two thousand fifteen. This civil unrest in Baltimore April and it was the white Sox Orioles Guzman oreal and some merger with the White Sox and some are just started that game and give like five six runs in the first inning and I talked to him and he said you know what it was so strange It's like a pickup game. Nobody was there. Guzman said even t-ball. Your Parents Showa. Put this thing a major league game and nobody was there. He was in the bullpen and he could hear the broadcast or call the play by play from the bullpen. And some Arja told me I would not recommend that so obviously we've gone in a different direction. Everything was on the table just two hours ago and the world is changing. How about this man? The baseball draft again baseball secondary. It's a blip on the screen but You know I'd learned right before baseball Made this announcement to postpone pushback. Shut down the game The giants had already moved to calling all their scouts of pro scouts. Amateur Scouts off the road and so and that's when before high schools. Nc Double A. Conferences Role. You know getting together and shutdown themselves so now you have a draft coming up in early. June. There's no high school there's no college I mean the Ivy's shut down for the season and all these others seem to be doing the same and and And the giants have the thirteenth overall. Pick the ACE. The twenty sixth overall pick. I mean it's an important thing. Ha puck and Matt Chapman in recent years on a giant side hundred Bishop Elliott ramose. Joey Bart going back with King Bumgarner. Posey I mean they built championships based on the draft. And now there's a chance that they could still have this draft because there's timetable for going into next season harder and they have to base all their information on what already happened. Not what will happen in the spring season and I talked to giants official today about that and he said you know what we've done so much homework as is if you put the draft a week from that we probably have a board there and we could tell you where would rank them. That's how much work they in resources they put into this but again. That's that's for another day and that's That's going to be all played out and You know we've gone through these things before we've gone through the player strike. We've gone through nine eleven baseball You know it takes a hit Baseball takes a break. Baseball's always come back. This story hasn't been completed yet. It hasn't been fully written. Baseball will be back. We have no idea whether it's this year or next next month or at all in two thousand twenty but It's it's just a matter of the priority being be safe be healthy and take care of your family man. That's so much more important than anything that has to do with the strike zone or the designated hitter three better minimum. Is there any sense about with the giants? Who might how many people might be staying? How many people might be going? And he's not initially. I do know that an awful lot of people will be staying because an awful lot of people live here. You know the brand and Crawford's and so many of these young coaches they either used to live here and still do or moved here. Because for these young coaches it wasn't just shown up in mid-february with the players who have shown up in January and working on hitters and pitchers who happened to be coming by the complex. But it's not just that is the dozens and dozens of minor leaguers. That just open camp that in fact I was over at Minor League camp the day baseball shutdown in this was BEF- you know hours beforehand and I did a couple interviews over there and those are all young guys giddy and kind of oblivious to what real world is there in their own little zone playing ball and then hours later they were all told they. It's over minor. League COMPLEX IS SHUTDOWN. Just like the major league complex. So it's not just these major leaguers. It's not just the minor leaguers. It's all the workers and vendors at the ballpark. The the people who sell beer peanuts the entire environment the restaurants and bars and hotels. They're really relying depend on these six plus weeks to get them in some cases through the year financially. I did like I said. Speak with the mayor of Scottsdale Jim Lane and one interesting thing about that. Is the giants Contractually Scottsdale Stadium through the end of March. And that's the season supposed to begin. March twenty six so they were going to move out but they're staying and there might be a conflict because the city of Scottsdale supposed to take over Scottsdale Stadium April first but I spoke with the mayor and he said listen to their heart. There are most important tenant. We're going to try to work with them. Scottsdale stadium used for other things. John's parties functions. Or get together. I mean it's not like the rolling stones are going to be here April third if so you and I might stay a little while but I'm sure you know in all these parks it's just a one month deal in terms of the games and you know they use the facility for high schools and colleges and Adult Leagues and tournaments and things like that. They they keep them pristine all year round So anyway there's in terms of the giants It's a financial impact in Scottsdale. They they've had scheduled sixteen home games and got through ten of them. So that means six are not gonNa be played in five of those six km. We're going to come in the final seven days of Spring Training. So they're all kind of fact loaded and a well you know. That's that's the ended baseball. Yeah I spoke with the mayor of city of Mesa yesterday. John Giles. Who also said I forget the exact words but basically that it's significant blow to the city To not have these games. And you think I mean you look at it as being just a week and a half of games aren't going to be played and not all those are going to be happening in in Mason. So you know how how big an impact in a really be but yeah yeah you bring in such such a significant amount of baseball fans there were. I was out both at Cam and and Sloan Park where the cubs play today and just talking to a couple of fans out there and there are people out there who had driven from Chicago and just gotten here a couple of days ago and we're planning on spending a few few days here seeing if you games and and they were just walking around the empty stadium just to take a look. 'cause there's there's no baseball being played anymore but that's the kind of draw for baseball fans that Spring Training has and it's kind of a a rite of spring is. It's marks the beginning of of things but from yeah from the financial point of view it. It is a significant blow to the city. And I don't I don't actually know about the situation with the as renting renting their stadium whether there's an expiration day on that but it'd be something well I'm sure the as are the primary tenant there as well. Yeah they've only been over there for not to lie again couple of years and just one other thing that the mayor mentioned was that in the past couple of years I think since they move spring training dates up a little bit Starting a little bit earlier than it was before. Yeah Yeah so so. What he said was the early dates having drawn as well. I think he had taken a little while fans to warm up or the fact that those games are happening earlier so so obviously they got early games in but like you said they're the later games are are cancelled and those have been the big dry the last couple of years so It is a significant impact will met. We could leave it as this one of the last interviews I did was with Buster Posey and this is. This is the day before the announcement came. He said Baseball Secondary. Figure the important stuff out first then figure out baseball typical buster. Yeah and I would on Thursday also The last I think group interview that we all did was is manager. Bob Melvin and he basically said it's. It's time to slow DOWN ON THE BASEBALL FRONT. And once once we get on the other side of this This bigger picture theory and pick it up again but sports in the grand scheme of things. It's not not the biggest biggest issue right now. You've been listening to giants splash. And as plus our producers today were G Allen Johnson and King Kaufman movie vaccine with more baseball podcasts. Thanks for listening. He's plus is a production of the San Francisco Chronicle support as plus and all of the chronicles journalism by signing up for Chronicle membership at SF chronicle dot com slash pot.
Can Trump Win Again In Battleground States?
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it wherever you get your podcasts Welcome to it's all political all the San Francisco Chronicle's political podcast. I'm Joe Garre. Holy the chronicle senior political writer today in the podcast for those seven battleground states that are going to inside the next president of the United States is our guest. This Justin Myers he's CEO of something called four our future. That's a super PAC. That's funded funded by organized labor upstairs next-gen Organization and there's planning to spend eighty million dollars in those seven states. We've got ground level view about what's going on there. We'll talk to him about what issues people care about their. What do they think about trump? Can you win. And what effect will the impeachment trial have. If any on what they're thinking and here's my conversation with Justin Myers. Justin Myers welcome. It's all political. Welcome to the city of Saint Francis as Speaker Pelosi. Thank you Joe So Your Organization for future is planning to spend eighty million dollars these key battlegrounds of twenty twenty. We're talking states like the states formerly known as the Democratic Blue all the Michigan Wisconsin and our native are shared native state of Pennsylvania. Right you're from Philly will will let go and I'm from Pittsburgh along with the Ohio. Virginia Florida Nevada correct. Now you've had you had one point one million face-to-face conversations with voters in those places in two thousand eighteen. Yeah and have had continued organizing since then. Yes okay so the question that everybody wants to know especially here among Democrats in California you you see these folks all the time. What are the chances? President trump is going to win again so I think the two thousand sixteen came as a shock to most of us us. You know those folks that work in politics is a profession. I think all that on Hillary Clinton I think even the other side would say they did not expect act for for trump to become president with that being said you know when when you expect a winter sometimes. You don't do everything that you need to do to win. And I'm a firm believer that you always want to run scared. Meaning you want to run as if you were down by by twenty points. Because I think that's when you get the the best output from your organization indoor candidate so I think things in the ground are vastly different from two thousand sixteen And I think you don't have to look any further than what happened in two thousand seventeen to tell the tell us why it's different You know in two thousand seventeen. The resistance movement came about. We're sitting here in San Francisco. Where where I know the markets Were attended by thousands of this illegally cradle of resistance And you know the election of trump created activism at a peak level. Like I have never seen during my lifetime. And that coupled with with with other movements gun violence prevention mentioned movement black lives matter all of these different movements that have sprouted up over time have culminated in an a level of activism. That again that I haven't seen during my my lifetime so on the ground now. I think you have that little activism people who were not involved in the political system before actually getting engage but you also have political professionals like myself making sure we are truly prepared for this cycle that we're collaborating with the folks that we can actually talk to to make sure that we are covering the turf that we should and putting putting plans. That are going to help us win. But I will trump win again it. What are the Miami win again? No you don't think I I don't think he can. I think if you look at what happened in two thousand eighteen With the Democrats taking back the House with US making strides in state legislatures around the country. Uh taking back around the country You know even in Virginia we just took a both houses of the state. Ledge we are building a coalition. Should I think is going to lead us to victory in twenty twenty whether it's young people people of Color College Educated Women Suburban GRANDMOM's I think that they in twenty s twenty. Eighteenth sent a strong message to the White House that they were tired of of going through this this world win data day And not actually seeing anything that is helping them Their bottom line and their lives species are fed up. You told me earlier that Pennsylvania Wisconsin Michigan is pretty much the ballgame. Why do voters? They're still support the the president. I mean he talks about the economy is is doing well. And and if you have money if you have a for half of Americans who have stock investments and such it. It's it's doing better but the real wages have only gone up one percent. Why do folks? They're still like the president. So I'm I think if you look at any poll and any any of those states to delight lazily pulled I've seen the president is your medically underwater. The majority of people in fact do not like him The people that we speak to every day in fact. They're telling us that the economy is not helping them. If we take southwestern Pennsylvania for instance trump made a promise that the steelworkers workers there would reap the benefits of tariffs that he's put in place. But who's actually written the benefits. It's not the steel workers themselves right. It's not the rank and file workers That that are are are are leading middle class. Households is the owners of the Steel Mills Right I think you can go to places like Wisconsin Zain and Michigan and talk to any worker and s them. Has This economy truly benefit. You and they're going to say no because healthcare is going up. child-care there's going up roads and bridges places like Michigan are decrepit. They're not fixed. Prescription drugs trump said that he would put something forward to fix. That issue. Hasn't done it. There are a lot of broken promises that he's made to individuals to to voters. And I think that's GONNA come back to haunt him and I'm that's one of the reasons why I'm I'm very hopeful about twenty twenty. What a lot of the things that are talked about in the national media in particular the beltway media are not the issues people were talking about the door? What what are people telling you at the door and those and those seven battleground states that were not hearing talked about it every day in the news? It's amazing You know one of the things that I'm very proud of of is that when we started conversation in the door. We don't ask a person about which candidate they're going to support and said we asked them. What issue do you WanNa see address in Your City Hall and your State Capital Capital in DC and? We were astounded by some of the answers that we got back to your point. They were not the national issues at the smart people in DC. Always think are are the issues that people care about in Michigan. It was things like auto insurance and Pennsylvania. It was would stop what what about auto insurance Detroit has doubled the national premium. We have a twenty eight year old statewide filled director in Michigan. That pays two hundred and fifty dollars a month for his auto insurance insurance right so what happens as a result is that a lot of people don't even register their cars in Detroit. They registered than in the suburbs. Wow Yeah Ah places like Pennsylvania. More school funding. That is a huge issue in places like Delaware County which by the way Just last year. Democrats Democrats took control of the county legislature. I think for the first time since the civil war so yes in places like Delaware County schools are literally crumbling bowling right People want help for the public school system there you know it's it's pocketbook issues tend to dominate the day and I do you think that roads and bridges is in fact a pocketbook issue. That's something that's very Top of mind to voters in Michigan. you know it's usually just pocketbook issues as health care It is more jobs. It's local blight you'll hear about opioid abuse and places like Philadelphia Things that we often miss when we're trying to crash craft these national messages that are usually for persuasion audiences but even there. I think that we're we're we're missing. Thinks something as a recording. This impeachment trial continues in the Senate. Is that come up at the door. And and and how do you foresee that resonating through the campaign. If at all all you know it's it we have heard it more but isn't a top five issue not not to the voters who is that we're talking about. And the reason I say that in the reason why I think it's not for the most part. I the activist base of course is going to talk about impeachment but I think once you get so people that don't vote often people that aren't watching the news constantly. That aren't reading a newspaper in the daily basis people that frankly are just worried about putting food on their table and taking care of their children and their spouses in their family. They're not paying attention to what's happening in DC right. That's not the type of mine for many of them. which actually here is? That doesn't matter who's in the White House because my life is still going to be the same. And that's where I think us. Connecting connecting with voters on issues makes a difference. Because then you're actually speaking to what they care about rather than some national message that is missing them completely and so it doesn't. There's not really a persuasion any kind of persuasion that yours. That may come out of this trial. You're that you're not seeing that. I mean it's still early. It's still early or anything. No I don't I you know I. I'm sure I think the the way that the impeachment has progressed. Unfortunately the Senate will not allow for new testimony particularly from on Ukrainian set have additional information on. What's happening and I? I just feel like we have hit a wall and that a a lot of Americans have been forced to their corners and organizations like mine or going to have to make sure we're getting out out there and doing the hard work work at the grassroots level to to to talk to folks about lie. This president isn't for them. We'll be back for more of my conversation. With just the Myers after this short break. If you've been listening to San Francisco City insider you heard from chased bodine months before his surprise election as the city's DA. Yea you heard from the most love librarian in the country and you heard from the man who wants to remake Muny. I'm chronicle columnist Heather Knight get to know the people who make San Francisco tick NCA few approve their burrito choices on San Francisco city insider. And here's more of my conversation. Sation with Justin Myers ever since this president trump took the oath of office Democrats have been debating With a focus. You know over the next few years on bringing back the working class. White voters trump voters former Obama voters in the midwest so it was some states here in our expanding the The the the people of color contingent of the Obama coalition and I can't let's say that I WANNA ask you. which should they be doing any? Can't you can say both but the resources are finite were. What should the Democrats be focused? We have to walk and she gum at the same time. This is an argument. That frustrates me to no end. And why because when you look at why we loss right. It wasn't that it didn't just lose because people have colored in turn out. We didn't just lose because white working class. Voters voted for trump at a higher clip than than Hillary Clinton. We lost because of both though both of those right You know African Americans voters in Detroit simply did not turn out. They were not enthusiastic. We we didn't can communicate with them the the way that we should have around issues that matter to them particularly in a city that like Detroit that so marginalizing going through so much where people you know. Ah have a reason to not believing government because government has not served them well So I all all that to say is yes. We have to work hard art at mobilizing black and Brown communities. What you can't leave out suburban voters? You can't leave rovers. We have to figure out a way to talk to them. And maybe it's not my organization that is going to talk to rural suburban and urban voters. But I think that we as progressives who are truly working in a a collaborative environment can figure out how to make sure there is some organization speaking to a group that we may have missed in previous cycles. Siri one kind of coordinating ordination. That on the left. Who's kind of the the the The the bandleader on. I think there's a number of organizations that that help convenient America Arko votes is certainly a convener of community organizations and organizations central organizations like mine. I think there's also organizations like mine who who create nontraditional tables at the grassroots level with activists with elected officials with people. That don't always I have access to those bigger more traditional tables in some state capitol Yes folks are certainly banning together and working through how we as a collective I've or going to defeat this president maintain a control of the house and make strides in state legislatures around the country. So I know at this point of the race where there haven't been really any votes counted where or cast we'd were still couple weeks away from Iowa. You're not gonNA WANNA urination. Pick sides to your will back. Whoever whoever the The nominee as but what type of candidate would Would do really well and all these seven battleground states. What if you had to you know? Put together your biotic man or woman Arca was going to say Frankenstein. That's probably not a complimentary rank inside candidate. That's probably not going so candidate. Who would? How would that candidate look so? There are many qualities that I think an ideal candidate would have. But I'M GONNA focus on one because I think this is something that politicians often miss I in campaign managers often misses. Well this is something that any good organizer Eiser knows. They have to do the ability to listen right the ability to listen and actually craft a campaign and your campaign message around on what what people are telling you is at the top of their mind. Would issue actually matter to them right whether it's healthcare air cost whether it's child care whether it's creating an economy that works for everyone. A good politician is one that is going to go into these communities and actually sit down and listen to people. That's how you get people more engaged. That's how you get people to actually believe in this in the in the system again to believe in government again Iowa's fascinating to me because that's the one st where you know you will I would. I would say they're fascinating because those are two states where you can have a conversation with people in the streets that have actually probably spoken to You know two to three of the actual presidential candidates that's that's astounding right either and I'm willing to bet that because of that you probably have higher dissipation rates in both of those states. I that should not be Germane to only is due to those two states. Only we need for those candidates to do the same thing in your Detroit's in your in your Philadelphia's In Your Fox Volley Wisconsin wherever they need to go to actually communicate and pick up votes and listen is where they need to be and it may not be then they also have large teams. They have organizes. This is on the ground. They should be utilizing those folks to also make sure that they're communicating with with with with voters and community members to figure out what that message will be that. WHOA actually motivate them to turn out so no you weren't with for future back in two thousand sixteen but we certainly studied what happened and what went wrong? What did you learn from 2016? That you're trying to change just give you one good example from our Our Home State of Pennsylvania and this horrified me when I came on board for future when the first job I've made western Pennsylvania to talk to people about what what what we were going to do to move moving forward to make sure that Governor Wolf would win in two thousand eighteen and and hopefully flip some state ledge seats as well as pick up congressional seats and they showed me a heat map of where we were. Organizations were speaking to voters in organizing northeastern Pennsylvania which Scranton region and then southwestern Pennsylvania your home region Allegheny County Pittsburgh were bare meaning reeling. Yes meaning being that we barely had any real contact with voters there whether it was in the heart side or soft side. There wasn't the large communication at scale the way that it should have been and what happened as a result those are the two corners where you had a ton ton of Obama trump voters. So what we did in twenty eighteen is that we committed to making sure that those who corners wouldn't be bear so when we knocked our first store in February it was in does two corners of the state. And we were doing it in the effort to find now. The Obama trump will folder. And we did it around Governor Education Plant and because we did that early communication with folks because we were able to talk about Governor Wolf's education plan and use that as the jumping off point as to why people should support him we saw early. The governor was going to be just fine and that allowed us to focus on down ballot and focused on State Ledge seats and we flipped a number of State Ledge seats and a number of congressional seats because of back. So all that to say I think you oftentimes learn more when you lose. Unfortunately currently I I was. We didn't have to do that with this president because I think he's just tearing up our country but I do think that we now know. I know that we have to work in a more collaborative environment. We can't work in silos and we have to figure out how we can not only scale but make sure that we are reaching all the communities in every state that we need to to to reach and not just to that individual or that family or that community wants but have continuous conversations with them him about issues that matter to them and then tried to engage them around the election as well A couple days before we're recording this news broke that Hillary Clinton Seddon an upcoming documentary that Bernie Sanders some not kind words by Bernie Sanders. She said he had been in Congress for years but quote. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with them. He got nothing done and quote and asked defer she's would work. You know work form. If he were the nominees like she was like noncommittal. Now she's walked that back a little bit yes But what's what's the impact of something like this at at this stage of the game a couple of weeks before Iowa votes standards Sanders moving up in the polls a little bit. What's but also it just reopened a lot of stuff? That's always there. What's what's the impact of that for someone's doing the work that you're doing? It was as far beyond media to Secretary Clinton what she can and cannot say But what it is but what I will I will say is that it's we have to figure out once is primarily has done how we as how we as progressives can heal and come back together which. I'm confident we will do. We all have in common enemy in the White House and while I think. That comment is unhelpful. I think that the larger progressive movement now sees what is like to have this this gentleman in the White House gentleman for lack of a better etter. We're in the White House and what he is doing to our country and I think that we understand that we can't let arguments or our disagreements policy differences. Take US away from our job is the end of the day which is to defeat this president and to restore our our democracy democracy that works for everyone. So you're you. Do you think that having that common enemy will go a long way towards not that we won't see the splits in the Democratic Party that we did three four. Yes I definitely think that will be the case. It's going to be contentious up until the nomination and we. We should all recognize that these are they all have very passionate supporters who believe in their policies and they want their person to win. I certainly understand that. But from what I'm seeing in DC. What I'm seeing even when I go to states when I would I even when I speak to organizations progressive organizations that have actually the endorsed in this race? They still say yes. We have endorsed Bernie. Yes we have endorsed Elizabeth Warren but if they are not the nominee we are still going to support whomever emerges out of this primary. And I'm talking about like the Working Families Party. I'm talking about community. Change a whole bunch of different organizations. They are very passionate about who they are supporting. But the end of the day from what they're saying and also just from our planning efforts I can tell we we are going to work as a collaborative effort. And what did you We've seen the last couple of debates The last one in particular all white candidates dates three of them in their seventies. Do you have any concerns that this is going to depress turnout from communities of color or young voters. Yes I I do and I think we should all be aware of that. I I get worried when Our debate stage looks like a Republican debate instead of a democratic. Take a look worse versus Rubio I am I am. I am very very worried about that. I think that whoever emerges with the nomination needs to make sure they have a plan on how they're going to engage and ultimately activate of people of color and I think that organizations like mine in particular who are well suited to do this or going to be focused on that regardless of who the nominees and again I I am I am. I think that Obama is a once in a lifetime president. I think that he had the ability to motivate people in a way that I may never see again So we can't. We can't look for another Obama so so we can't we. Should we give up on the idea of the Obama coalition and wait for a war and coalition or a sanders or abide nurse up like that. I think I think the coalition is there. I I think the coalition came together and help give Nancy Pelosi the speaker gavel right so I think the coalition is there. I'm saying is that the Museum Hasim that President Obama created around his candidacy. We can't rely upon that to win this coming November. What we you can rely upon is sound organizing around issues that people care about and using those issues to create enthusiasm that we need to defeat this president so this is going to be like like a a grinded out? Yes grinded out game. This is going to be a long year long as an soaring stadium. Filling events like Obama CA. I was talking to someone the other day at this. Not At this point of the race but within a month or so he was filling up arenas dues getting massive crowds. You're right I don't see anyone anyone in this crowd doing that. I'm unsure. I think time will tell but also let's talk about the the the large massive crowds that are attending all of these marches that that activism is there but we have to translate that activism into people actually going to vote. And that's not always easy. Just Morris thank you so much for being here I even despite the fact that from Philly. What did he get into the greedy controversy? Oh God spared you on that. Let let let you go without having to comment on gritty. Let that be out. Thanks so much no problem. Thank you Joe. I'd like to thank you all for listening. I'd like to thank Justin for coming into San Francisco. Go to be on the PODCAST. I'd like to thank the King King Kaufman and the crate one Karen Creighton producing today's episode. And remember whether you liked like kill Basa or cheese steak. It's all political. It's all political as part of the San Francisco. Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is our editor in chief our music our theme music that we have is cattle. Call that's written by Randy Clark and performed by Randy Clark and pro soft. If you'd like this show subscribe rate and review it on Apple podcast or wherever you listen for more great journalism like this subscribe to the San Francisco. Chronicle article at San Francisco Chronicle Dot com slash. Subscribe you can find me on twitter at job carefully thanks.
Sponsored Episode: The Weapon of Art, Transforming Guns into instruments of Hope
"This is a sponsored episode of Datebook presented by Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in the last twenty years. Gun Violence has been a consistent fixture in American society ten local artists and collectives are repurposing firearms collected in San Francisco. Most of the people involved have been affected by senseless gun violence why B. C.. A. In collaboration with the Robby Publicity Foundation and united players are showing the transformation of of weapons into symbols of hope and healing in the art of peace. It's a group exhibition of sculptural art works made from dismantled firearms. It'll be on view at why B._C._A.'s Second Floor Gallery from July Twenty third through August twenty fifth. I'm King Kaufman on this episode of Datebook presented by Your Buena Center for the Arts. I'll talk to one of the artists in the exhibition sunk way. Moe will also visit with Deborah Cullen The C._E._O.. Of Why V._C._A.. FIRST UP I WANNA welcome to the people behind the project Patty Nevada publicity's area journalists. She's the editor of San Francisco magazine she founded the Robby Publicity Foundation in honor of her son was killed by gun violence in Vallejo in two thousand fourteen. He was twenty three Patty. Welcome yeah and Rudy Valentino from united players. That's a violence prevention at Youth Development Organization. He founded in nineteen ninety. Four united players provides youth with a safe and positive environment in which to grow rudy. Thanks for being here. I thought Rudy Valentino would be silent but I guess not Patty. Let's start with you. Tell me about the art of peace. Where did the guns come from well for this particular exhibit against came from the Gun? Buy Back that the united players held in partnership with San Francisco Police this department we were one of the partner organizations as well as other community organizations but every art of peace exhibit that has happened. <hes> is a result of dismantled firearms that were collected through gun buybacks in that particular city so there have been others yes so me but those well I started the foundation in twenty seventeen. <hes> few years after my son was was killed by gun violence. I knew that I wanted to get as many unwanted firearms out of circulation as possible. I didn't want to stop there. I wanted the message to be about transformation and hope and I got this idea of <hes> obtaining the metal after the guns were dismantled and then redistributing them to artists because if you could imagine these weapons were made for the sole no reason of of causing harm so if you dismantle that and repurpose it so that it's it's <hes> built to raise awareness to inspire to <hes> to touch someone's heart then that was the message I had because I wasn't a very dark place myself. I was feeling like I was a victim of destruction and I needed to emerge and transform much like these guns have been be purposed and my son at the time he was killed was learning how to weld. He was also collecting metal to create art and that's where the idea came from rudy of. <hes> who and what are united plays and what's your role in all this so I just WanNa say thank you for having us on air and it'd be on this patty. She's magnificent. You know what I mean anytime that we we connect us on a spiritual level for big of purpose and so you're not players is a violence prevention organization that originated twenty five years ago from gun violence and gang violence and so it started at a high school in San Francisco Bobble High High School one of the most notorious school's back in ninety four that the kids came together because they were tired of the senseless violence and we sat in a room just like this and the kids came with all the answers to the solution of stopping the violence so twenty five years later our organization is back in his neighborhood won't born and raised in district six around the corner from where we at while I've been survival gun violence on and cut a case around the corner right here and Al showing what you earlier on your boat doc to run a newspaper out right here and you know those gangs around his neighborhood yeah I was part of that lifestyle for our listeners. Our neighborhood that we're sitting in right now is at fifth and mission downtown yet south of market district six straight money Mac murder back in the days as part of that lifestyle and so being a part of your players twenty twenty five years later is about preventing violence senseless violence and in partnership with magnificent people. Oh like Patty who's on the same page as US of end in violence period. How does art work a let either of you answer? How does art work address gun violence? Well there are foundation has three programs. There's The gun buy I back which is to get as many unwanted firearms off the streets as possible. There's art of peace which repurposes that medal and the third one is <hes> what we call work in progress where we create career pathways for at risk and high risk individuals so a lot of it is putting them through building mm trades <hes> commercial driving so that there is an alternative lifestyle to crime. You know where people have lifelong job skills are when I was creating or designing our foundations programs I thought would be the least impactful I it was really a no mosh to what my son was doing which was re purposing metal for art but what I found when we unveiled the first art of peace it was it. The power of these pieces was <hes> was unimaginable. People came to that exhibit a lot of them came just to kind have criticized gun lovers who were criticizing our message and they left in tears because what they see are these beautiful pieces of art and you don't realize until you walked closer to it that these are actually pieces of metal from gun that could have killed someone and and a lot of the the firearms that we use. It's not just from gun buybacks. I have <hes> a unique contract with a private firm that destroys firearms from throughout the whole state. These are guns that have been adjudicated so these are firearms that were directly used for. Homicides and violent crime and now it's a beautiful bird. It's a beautiful butterfly. It's a tree you know and to realize that coming in that wow these are instruments of destruction and now they're instruments of hope is is is very powerful fall and what I learned after the first exhibit was it's very hard to talk about gun violence without going from it going from zero to one hundred it's very political but when you're able to move the heart through a piece of art then you're able to shift the mind and and that's how I'm going about it you have to move someone emotionally before you can begin to have that dialogue you mentioned Patty <hes> people coming into the exhibition to protest it to to argue because they're pro firearm and walking away the very very different reaction. Can you talk about that a little bit describe one share there. There was a man who came to our first exhibit. Actually I did a show with him for <hes> for another channel he is an N._R._A.. Card holding man with numerous <hes> assault weapons <hes> and he came specifically to to criticize what we were doing and <hes> when he came and saw the beautiful pieces of art I he was walking past each piece and I explained to him the stories behind each piece one of them some way move who is in this exhibit was also in the first exhibit. Her fiance and I didn't know she will tell the story but she had just lost her fiance to gun violence she made that piece of art in grief in very raw grief and what she created you can pull the pain and you can pull whole the hope from that. There was another <hes> Iranian immigrant who fled the country because of the political turmoil he and his friends only to be met with gun violence in New York City. He lost his friends coming to America even though they sought refuge from I'm from this violent country and when I was able to explain each of the stories behind those pieces of art to this man who came specifically to criticize this he walked away with a better understanding. I'm not trying to take his guns away. I'm trying to get as many many unwanted firearms off the streets as possible the gun that was used to kill my son was obtained illegally after they used it to kill him. They resold it on the streets and it was used on another crime and it will continue to circulate until that person and that weapon is confiscated and arrested and so that's what I'm trying to address not <hes> impinging on someone's Second Amendment right but getting as many unwanted firearms off the streets as possible so he now is one of our biggest supporters in terms of donations attending our events being spokesperson for us and he has an N._R._A.. Card holding member US gave me goosebumps those so there is not a political aspect to the project and this exhibition. How is it political to save lives? You know if you're a Republican. Are you any less for saving your neighbor's child or your own child that to me. That's the part I don't understand to politicize. A human life is ridiculous. I don't see the politics that we are nonpartisan. Paterson we are we're pro keeping people alive. They could just say this when a bullet leaves the chamber. It doesn't care if you're Republican or Democrat young you. Oh you black white a peppermint striped. It doesn't matter when it comes out of that chamber table is GonNa destruct and kill anything in its path. I'm not against the Second Amendment. I never had been understand. We live in a rural world but I am against senseless gun violence and I know for a fact that you got a lot of people on the streets. Who are you know mentally incapable of caring guns? You got domestic violence. You've got people whose MAG because they losing a job who come back to the job and started smacking everybody up in the room so these are the type of gun violences that we feel that we can in I used to break into cars and houses we used to look for money jewelry and guns and no sane guns I used to take will be the gun that I will go around the different neighborhoods and pull the trigger if I can add one thing because there I know you get a lot. You've been doing a lot longer then I have but <hes> there's a lot of critics when it comes to gun buybacks. Are they efficient. What do they really do? How do you quantify <hes> the impact? You know that's hard to do because you never know how. Many lives are saving by getting one gun off the streets but I wanNA WANNA tell one story because it is no questions asked just like <hes> reduce gunfight bags in San Francisco but there was one man who came with his daughter. His son was diagnosed and he offered this story himself. We don't ask questions but his son was diagnosed with schizophrenia he he was cleaning his room out and found this assault weapon sandwiched under his mattress and even the Royal Police Department said this is the same assault weapon that we used to train our SWAT team with he was able to obtain that assault weapon off the Internet and the father was so afraid because the sun is schizophrenic. He was gonNA literally throw it in the river and his daughter Said No. There's a gun buyback. I saw flyer and how many lives did we save you know by having this on forum where people can responsibly surrender a firearm and that's very difficult to quantify but I know that if a gun is taken off the streets and surrendered that probability of it being stolen and used to kill someone goes to zero that's undeniable and no one can argue that point a man rudy eighty Hattie thanksgiving by anke so much next up. We're going to talk to one of the artists Sung Way Moat. She is from Taiwan. She came to the United States fourteen years ago. She's a citizen now. She was a Muny the art featured artists in two thousand eighteen so you may have seen her art on the buses and streetcars and this year. She's a winner in the United Airlines her art here contest which means her art is on the exterior of a seven fifty seven Sunday Komo welcome hi tell me about your piece in this project the art of piece this piece is an outer piece is my second high. Participate are of these projects because my former. Mer partner he was a victim of gun violence. So this piece is I refrained myself my life in I want you dedicate to him to honor his live to celebrate his life. So is <hes>. Let's pieces about cross cultural. I want you represent using those transformers gun parts to build a organ like in a Church Organ Music Instrument and with my Chinese heritage parentage I put like incense in right rice to build Saigo shrine so I 'cause I want you may the peace to make him go to the better appraise 'cause when my I are of his project. I have some feedback there was a woman she has tear in her eyes and she talked to me. Her son was a victim of gang violence and my piece touching her heart and that's why keep giving me the fuel to allow me WanNa do art to inspire more people to courage people to stand up when I go see the art of peace and I see your art there. What would you like me to take away from it? What what do you want to say to me so I won't people realize like understanding as of <hes> fictims family how I feel or Hollis tragedy of fat people's life is not only the person who lost their life in a gang violence as a whole family is a whole community or does how society eaten so I won't do those are two that people awareness of Allah in do some positive change just being a nice person? Do Sounding everyday okay <unk> Sung Mo.. Thanks for coming in talking about your art thank you Sunday Mo- will be showing more art in a similar vein at San Francisco City College next March and April the exhibition will be called good die young <music>. Deborah Colin is the C._E._O.. Of Your Buena Center for the Arts She's a leading thinker on the role arts organizations can play shaping the social and political landscape Deborah Welcome to date book. Thank you for having me. How did your Buena Center for the arts become involved in the art of peace project you know at y._m._C._a.? We take really seriously the role that we play in civic life and the life of our community <hes> and <hes> I have had the good fortune of having a longtime partnership and relationship with Rudy and and the team at United Players <hes> think that they are one of the most important organizations right now operating in the city and you know Rudy's been working around issues related to violence and youth violence and gun violence and we <hes> had a conversation. In about this extraordinary woman Patti <hes> and the work that she's been doing <hes> you know looking at how to help people think differently about <hes> weapons frankly and to me this is exactly the role that an art arts center should play where at the center of downtown San Francisco and we can be a place that brings together all kinds of different people around issues that we care about and we believe that any issue that matters is going to be moved forward much more quickly if if we start with artists what is that role for an arts organization. How does this exhibition demonstrate that role yeah I I mean I think that the role of the art center in its community is really rooted in the idea that we're uniquely situated to start conversations around creativity and imagination to get to really dip difficult really complex questions through nuance right? If you ask an artist to look at questions around violence they're going to open your mind and your heart in ways that you wouldn't <hes> <hes> experience. If you started with policy you know or if he started with the partnerships rate so to me. It's very much about opening our hearts opening our minds being a centre for dialogue and conversation being a place where really different perspectives can mash up so so that we can move beyond guns are big political issue. It's almost like a third rail at times in American politics <hes>. How much of a risk is it for an arts organization to make statements about guns you know frankly I think it's a risk for us not two? I think that we have an obligation to have a point of view and I think any arts organization that suggests that there are neutral place is not acknowledging their own power privilege and politics and so for us. It's not a risk at all. It's a risk if we don't is this an art exhibit for gun control advocates would if someone is pro second amendment and pro guns and come walks into this exhibit. What are they gonNA think yeah? I think that's a fabulous question. I think again to to to the point around having a point of view the exhibition is you know most of the artists in the exhibition are looking at gun control <hes> and through in various ways very artfully advocating for it but not all of them. Some of them are really looking to find that balance between <hes> you know owning guns and and being responsible with them now given the exhibition does have a point of view. I think for the most part it doesn't mean that it can't spark dialogue in fact the programs around it the context we place it in. It's all about bringing together. Diverse perspectives is is it a a safe place to do that in San Francisco. Can this exhibit travel. Could it be done in Texas. That's a really good question yeah. I think that it it isn't so much about the exhibit. It's about how you contextualize. It and I want to believe that we can have hard conversations no matter where we are in the country if we can actualize them and if we take into account different beliefs different values different life experiences and perspectives located Debra Colon and the C._E._o.. Of Your Buena Center for the.
Meet New Giants Outfielder Kevin Pillar
"Hello. And welcome to the giant splash. I'm Henry showman. The giants beat reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle today, I'll be chatting with new center fielder. Kevin pillar who makes his return to Toronto this week. He talks about growing up in LA not figuring on a baseball career playing at a small college. Few people heard of a record hit streak that he had and how his parents allowed him to have a normal childhood, at least for an athlete there's much much more in there as well. And we'll get to it right after this. Hi, I'm king Kaufman and shoots your century. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story. And then we'll return you to yours. Henry Shulman San Francisco Chronicle back with giants outfielder Kevin power. And Kevin kind of a weird twist of fate that the giants are going back to Toronto for the first time and in six years. And that's you know, your first road trip is gonna take you there. Did you did you kind of look at that? When you did get traded and kind of know this was coming. I knew the schedule pretty well. In toronto. I knew that they were coming there at some point in the year. I knew we had then nationally west of grown up in LA. I was definitely looking forward to getting back to Dodger Stadium. But yet once I got traded, and I got settled in and I was able to kind of catch up and look at our schedule who were playing, obviously, I sell Tron on the schedule. And it's something that, you know. I'm definitely looking forward to. Okay. So it's a good thing and not necessarily a bad thing that you're going back there right away. Yeah. I think I think kind of getting it out of the way. Is is good. You know, I think there's part of me through social media and being able to thank a lot of people that help me get to where I was at help me with some of the closure. I think getting there seeing a lot of people that I didn't get a chance to see before. I was sent out. We'll be nice. You know, there's a lot of people that played a big part in. You know me as a baseball player me as a human being me as a man me as a father, and it would just be nice to see a lot of those people that, you know, behind the scenes that maybe don't get a lot of credit for just kind of helping me through my career there. You know, whether it was, you know, some of the elevator tenants that, you know, I got to know some of the stadium employees. I got to know. And obviously it's going to be nice to play in front of the fans. It's Ron that have just been so kind to me and my family and. Really looking forward to get out there and playing one last time, you know, I think in a perfect world you'd like to know you're getting traded and before and you get to go out there and play one last time. You know, I think I kind of had that mindset every time I play that. I try to play with the mindset this is my last game. We're gonna play and I try to go out there and be the best for myself and and play hard. But under those circumstances. It would have been nice to know that this was my last game in the Rogers centre wearing a Blue Jays uniform, and you would kinda cherish that moment. A little bit more you kind of take in the stadium. The surroundings the fans the people just take it all in because in this game. You don't really know when it's gonna end. You know, you did mention your your background up from Los Angeles. And I want to ask about that one. Last question about playing in Toronto. It's always been my understanding that you feel when you play in Toronto, you're more than just playing for a city, you're playing for a country since now, you're the only team there was that a little different for you know, you don't have anything to compare it to. But did you feel that that way that it was almost a national team? Yeah. It was definitely national team. I think through some of my. Off-season adventures through our caravan our winter tour FanFest stuff, you know, it gave me opportunities at travel across Canada. And and you see the Blue Jays are to you know, other cities other provinces in Canada, you feel that affect a lot when you travel north, you know, whether it's places like Minnesota places like Seattle places like Boston, you know. A lot of these blue Jay fans watch games from afar, you know, outside of Toronto. And like you said is national team that cer- teen they root for and you definitely feel those affects and Seattle in Minnesota. You know, when it's almost ninety percent blue Jay fans and. Rowdy group of people really excited. You know, one of their only opportunities to maybe the Blue Jays play live. So you definitely feel that affects you know, being here in San Francisco, you it's a different feeling you are representing one city. But the one thing that I have noticed just in this my short time here and traveling is they do a great job. And traveling. You know, there is a pretty decent amount of giants fans there in Washington. You know, you see him here in Pittsburgh. And we'll see how they traveled Toronto's. Well, yeah, that's that's been true. Especially since the giants won the the the first World Series in twenty ten. Now, you mentioned you grew up in L A from the western part of the San Fernando Valley in some degrees in some ways you and I have had a little similar backgrounds. I mean, I'm Jewish kid from LA I bar mitzvah. I think he may be the first player I've ever interviewed who also had at a bar mitzvah. You went to to high school out there in the west valley. And then you you ended up going to a school that probably a lot. People haven't heard of Cal State Dominguez hills, which is down in the south bay area Torrance, Long Beach. Oh, what what went into your choice to go there. Really here here before I decide to go there. Three sport athlete in high school, pretty good at all three. I was a little unsure of what I want to do. I really enjoy playing basketball. I really enjoy playing football. Baseball's always something. I was you know, secretly really passionate about never really kind of express to my parents that want to pursue it. You know after high school. I was very unsure of what I wanna do. I think you know, baseball kind of chose me just due to my my size. You know football would have been a little bit of a challenge at my size basketball would have been even more of a challenge in my size in baseball kinda I guess my senior year, I kinda started takes us to my parents a little bit. You know, I was going to consider playing baseball in college. You know, and I had a good senior year. And I didn't do a really good job of, you know, marketing or trying to go to these perfect game stuff or any of those sort of things that that help you get to the next level. Being drafted with something that, you know, I didn't know anything about I didn't really have any friends or mini teammates played with in high school that. A wind down that path. And I had some offers a had a couple offers some D one offers east coast schools midwest schools some pretty good programs, but I knew how much my parents enjoyed watching me play baseball and being a part of my journey. And I really wanted to stay close to home. You know, obviously, I wanted to play UCLA that was kind of the school that you know, I always dreamed about playing at they never came calling USC even some of the smaller d one schools like ele MU and Pepperdine, you know, weren't really an option. Fresno state was a school. I really wanted to go to my brother was actually going there as a student, and I thought it would be really cool to go up there and play baseball and get a chance to get close to my brother, again, who's you know, four grades older than me. So we only spent one year together in high school. Ironically, that was the year they won the national championship too. So that would have been a pretty cool thing to experience, but my best friend in high school best friend today. He actually got recruited to demand sales to to pitch and. I was kind of running out options that some are didn't really know what I was going to do junior. College was always an option. But I to be honest with you, I didn't see. You know, I didn't see my path to professional baseball. See my pets the big league. So it was really important for for me to go to a four year school. So I can get in and make sure I was taking the right classes and make sure I graduated college. And it baseball worked out great. But I wanna make sure that I got into four year school where school was important as opposed to junior college in California where they can just kinda give you whatever classes you need to take to be eligible to play sports. So I kind of ruled that option out, and, you know, fortunately for me, my my head coach at high school took the pitching coach job at Dominguez hills. And. In addition to him. And and my my teammate that went there, you know, the they did a good job selling me to the kosher and had me and my family come out check out the campus. And you know, told me all the right things that I would have a chance to come in and play right away. You know coaches tell you a lot of things, but you know, he sold me. So my family it was close enough to home where my parents would be able to come out and watch games all the time. And obviously the teams we played were were fairly close to home as well. And you know, I ended up going there and I walked on and ironed a spot. And I ended up starting as a freshman became a fresh Mel American and. You know, it was a kind of a blessing disguise, you know. It was never my dream to play division to baseball. But obviously it worked out, you know, I met my wife there too. So even to that's a huge huge plus to to my experience there, and I got to spend four years with my best friend living in the dorms of an house. Some of my best friends in the world playing at Dominguez hills. And. You know, I think after my first year when you don't have proved that play at the college level and be a freshman all American that, you know, maybe there was a future beyond this. And you know, I started to play summer bowl wood bat leagues and starting to try to get my name out there a little bit more my sophomore year. I had a pretty good year. Broke my ankle. And fall ball came back. Probably shouldn't have played that year tried to play through it ended up tearing my labor my shoulder. The same year ended up playing the the rest of the year had surgery on my ankle and shoulder that all season. So I didn't get a chance to play any would that stuff in in the off season? And then my junior years kinda win put myself on the map with that fifty four game hit hit shui and really just kind of dominated my competition and really felt like. You know, I started talking to scout started getting invited to go to work. And I really thought it was my between the to get drafted, and and and move on from demand sales, and and cert- my journey to improbable, and you know, see what happened from there. And you know, for whatever reason I being drafted as junior, and it was it was devastating for me. Because I felt like I had done everything. I I needed to do. And I felt like I fell victim to kind of this stereotype or stigma that comes along with playing at the lower levels of college baseball, you know, went out to a really competitive wood bat league in the north woods league. And kind of went out there. Same way I wanted to sales. I got a ten day contract to just kinda see, you know, how handle myself out there ended up playing every single day out there, you know, that the league in hits and in at bats. And you know, I really think that help put my name out there and went back to diminish. Hills and made sure I was going back from my senior that I'd finish school. And you know, took a pretty massive workload in the classroom and just continue to go out there. And and and try to put myself on the map, and you know, fortunately after that year after graduating I got a call on day three of the draft and was selected by the Blue Jays in the thirty second round. And didn't know what I was getting into. But I knew that, you know, I got everything I needed as far as just getting opportunity to go out there and prove myself, and you know, got off to a little bit of a shaky start in Pro Bowl. And I remember about a month in the season. I was hitting about hundred and you know, hitting sat down with the hitting coach he wanted to make all the excuses in the world for me being a division two guy playing at a higher level playing with the would bad. And you know, I told him, you know, that wasn't gonna be acceptable that wasn't gonna work for me. You know, I believe myself. I know I can hit and turn it around. Winning the batting title out there. And I was on my way, and you got a degree and was at educating business. Oh, excuse me business, something that maybe you hope to use when you're retired. Yeah. Hopefully, I mean, I think every I think every player at some point in their career kind of things about life after baseball. You know, I think about it probably more than the average player because I understand that. What the major league life shelf life is you know, the average people play the major leagues is probably about two and a half three years. I've already surpassed that ideally, we'd all like to live in this fantasy land where we're gonna play ten years, and we're gonna make a lot of money, and we're not ever going to have to work after baseball. Even if I got my full ten years. I'd be about thirty five thirty six at that point. And. You know in in baseball, you're considered old. But in life is still considered young thirty six you were just saying that, you know, that thirty five years old, you know, if you have ten years in the big leagues might be old in baseball terms, but not in the real world, and you do hope to pursue something afterwards. Maybe use your degree a little bit. Yeah. I'm still up in the air what that's going to be. But like, I said, you know, hope lamented position where. You know, I'm not having to take a nine to five to support my family when I'm done playing. Hopefully, I've made enough money in this game that you know, baseball has been sports have been a huge part of my life since I was a little kid. You know, I spent. A lot of my time. Not only practicing my craft it at this. But spending time in the weight room, especially once you get to the cause of you know, aside from going to school it's pretty much year round job. So, you know, when I'm done playing, hopefully, I get to enjoy some of the things that I missed out in my youth is far as you know, traveling and and just enjoy myself playing golf taking vacations, you know, get a chance to be a fulltime husband fulltime father. But like I said you're young when you're done playing. I can't imagine just sitting on the couch and playing golf every single day. And, you know, being a husband and a father fulltime, you know, there's other things that I'm passionate about a lot of things I'm actually passionate about, but that's still to be determined on what route I decide to take. But the most important thing for me is I'm doing something because I wanna do it. Not because I have to do it. Right. I did want to ask one thing you talked about the fifty four game hitting streak if you were playing at university of my. Cami Fresno state or Stanford. Your name probably would have been all over the the sporting pages. When when you were doing that did that get any notoriety at all. And did you start hearing a lot about demise? Yo. Yeah. I definitely heard a lot about D'amoto. I heard more about. I think it was Tino Martinez that had his long hit streak a Oklahoma state. You know fortunate. Fortunately for me wasn't Nicosia on those another player. I want to say, it was Nicasio honest. But I don't think it will. It might have been to cast on us. He was playing at Florida Atlantic. And he Quinten Lee had a long hit streak, you know, upwards of the fifties. And it started getting some obviously local publicity as I started reaching different milestones in my school my conference division two. But as starting to reach kind of that national record it started. I started seeing on ESPN people started hearing about it started getting a little bit more notoriety. But like you said, obviously, if it was at a a big time division one school. It would have been all over years PIN there probably would have been ESPN cameras out there kind of tracking. When I was going to get my next hit or win this streak was going to end. But you know, it was something that it was. It was it was a magical ride when I was in. When I was doing it. You know, when people kinda ask me about, you know, how do you have a history that long? But I think as a baseball player as a competitor. I think. You know, you take every day individually, and obviously your goals to try to get on base and try to get hits. And it just kind of seemed like I was able to do that every single day and. You know, I never really felt pressure until I got into like the fifties. And I was about to break the D to record. And obviously that competition. I was facing was well aware of it and people want to end any sort of St. that you have and I started getting pitched a little bit differently. And you know, fortunately for me it happened at at home with my family there and a couple of my friends came out to watch. And it was actually a double header that day. So I was able to not only tie the division to record. But break it in the same day. And you know, unfortunately, like every thing I it came to an end. Did you did you barrel any up on that fifty fifty? You know, what I specifically remember the fifty day? It was we were playing in university Pacific. It was a the. Conference championship. And we were playing our rival UC San Diego. I believe it was only seven inning game too. And I made it out, and I I had bad. I was intentionally walked in hit by pitch. And that's kind of how it ended the L seventy games. Probably a few of those in there. Just the last question for you. And I'll let you go. You have writ you have talked about. And I've read about how as a thirty second round draft pick. You had a chip on your shoulder coming in which which can be a good thing. But now looking back on it you have a successful major league career. Now, do you? Appreciate the accomplishment of being a guy who went to a d- to school drafted into thirty second round and being in the majors as long as you have. Oh, yeah. I'd take a lot of pride in it. Because. You know, some people just either developed later in life, some people like me play multiple sports and didn't kind of commit their whole life to baseball. You know fortunate has parents that wanted to. You know, let me and my brother experience a lot of different things in life. You know, wasn't a guy who, you know. I played my my sports seasons growing up. I played little league. When it was the league time, I played basketball when his best he's play pub or football. When I was that. I played soccer. I did everything growing up. But what my parents did a really good job for me. And my brother growing up was when summertime came, you know, we kind of put sports down, and we went to the lake and we just enjoyed being kids. We traveled. Me, and my brother wrote both wrote motorcycles growing up so summertime was kind of a time for us to get away from organized sports and just kinda enjoy other things in life looking back on it. Did it maybe hurt my chances of playing at a big ten school probably? But I do take a lot of pride, and I don't wanna say being the poster child because I'm not the first one, I'm not the only one who's done it. But you know, just proving to young kids out there that every every person's path is differently. You don't have to play in a perfect game to get to the big leagues. You don't have to be a high school all American ticket to the big leagues you play at your local detour de threes, college and just go out there and enjoy playing baseball. And you know, I'm a big believer. If you're good enough. They're gonna come find you you might not get the same opportunities initially in professional baseball that you know, some of these guys get drafted ahead you and are making big bucks. But my dad was always getting tell me cream rises to the top. If you just stay prepared mentally. Physically and outworked is and be accountable and be respectful, and when you get your opportunity realm with it a good things are gonna happen. Well in good things have happened to you. And I thank you for talking to me. And I wish you have a hope you have a very good return to Toronto this week. I appreciate that. Thank you. Kevin. That's it for this dish in of giant splash. We'll have another podcast very soon. Giant splash is part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is editor in chief. If you like this show, we'd love it. If you would subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast, and if you have a minute or two to give us a quick review that helps us build our audience. So we can keep growing follow me on Twitter at Hank showman or you can Email me at H showman at SF chronicle dot com. Support giants Blatch and a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle there are print and digital editions available. Find out more at SF, chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
A's and Giants: Five Questions Heading into Spring Training
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts? Hello and welcome to another fascinating as plus giants splash joint podcast featuring me giants beat reporter Henry Showman and as beat reporter Susan's lesser. You folks ask for more Susan and Henry Together so here. We are with our second annual five questions podcast. Each year we ask the five key questions for both teams heading into spring training which begins next week in Arizona. We have it all written up to and you can read our stories on the A.'s. And the giants five questions in the San Francisco Chronicle or on SF CHRONICLE DOT COM. Susan how are you ready ready for Arizona. I never am that. Always sneaks up on me. Yeah the packing seems to get harder and harder every year. You'd think it would get easier. I've turned from a fairly competent packer into an incompetent. I don't want I'll be. There might not have socks or I need but I. I guess we're all probably like that. Yeah I just need a bid for all those ribs reading reading and steak and all that stuff that people we yeah. That's right that's right okay so If you if you the listeners will remember the format from last year Susan. I've written up the five key questions for both team. We're GONNA ask each other questions and in the spirit of the Super Bowl if it's not too painful for forty niners fans. I'm actually GonNa flip a coin to see who asked the first question to the other person and Susan since I called You You're the visitor Why don't you call heads or tails tail and it is? He is heads so accurate. I cannot see you well let you hear the difference between a chance. Okay so Ah I defer and I want the ball in the second I will ask you the first question Saddam so here we go the the fifth key question Heading into the season season for the as and of course these are quite different. TV or two teams and quite different places right now. The as a ninety seven win team trying to win one hundred and Going going into the season All pretty much set the giants are GONNA lose one hundred games based on what all the fans think So these are going to be far different questions I think now. Different Trent Barton number five for up to the as can the team take steps during the spring to avoid another slow start. You know. It's funny it's just. Ah The entire twenty three years of covered the as this is ben their trend. They are late starters. But it's particularly been exacerbated. The last two years each of the last two years from mid June on the has been the best team in baseball before that they've put themselves in a little bit of a whole so. I think the feeling around the team is get get going better. You know add maybe an extra five winds to the total end. Maybe that gets you the division but You know easier said than done. Are there steps you can take during the spring Sure Spring helps with decision making You know maybe if you have more defensive drills or situational hitting drills the offense uh-huh maybe doesn't like completely collapses it didn't last week of the season But you know what the as are the as I have my follow their usual. Aw Home Start and killer and yet you know what's funny about that too. I remember that Felipe manage the as I'm sorry the DA's the expos His teams were always so young and they always came out of the gate strong And even spring training and the giants were like an old stodgy. Gee Team and We always just assume that younger teams would get out of the gate faster. I mean a lot of those guys played winter ball They just kind of get their bodies and shape quicker and it's funny to hear an as team that is still fairly young in a lot of spots having trouble out of the Gaetan being sorta like me where I have to be up up two hours and have eight cups of coffee before I can get going. Here's one theory that actually he bears some water is that The as have so much turnover typically in off seasons. You know you're spending maybe a first few weeks getting adjusted to each other still because of the turnover in the interesting thing this year. There is almost no turnover so that might be the one thing that that gets them. Going little started now hiring it seems to me it at midseason every year. We talk about you. You know. Potential deals with last year. We talked about. Maybe the is looking at giants relievers Specifically Smith not seem like everybody. Who was those guys are gone now aspect I suspect maybe questioned her five involves the bullpen? Yeah for the giants. Actually watching came back. I mean that's an interesting story. He had a player option and He was all in intent on exercising. It and then. He fractured his finger. trying to tag a runner in Saint Louis So he really didn't have any other choice voice he exercise the option. And he's going to be back. I mean this is. This is an interesting question to me because the bullpen was really the giants down real downward spiral really began again after they lost the playoff game to the cubs in two thousand sixteen when they couldn't save a five two lead going into the ninth inning so they signed Melanson and Matt just sort of started the cascade downward And now we're back to square one. Nobody really knows who is going to close for the giants I I don't think a lot of people know who the relievers are for the giants of this year. And I mean it is going to be Tony Watson. The one veteran they also signed a Jerry blevins the former athletic Another left-hander and then they just have a lot of youth in the bullpen. And it's guys some a lot of guys they tried out last year and I mean guys like Sean Anderson who was a starter turned reliever You have John. Bell Gustav Sam coon Rod. These are not household names. But I think the giants are GonNa have to find some seventh eighth ninth inning outs get some outs from from some of these guys. They've got a rule five gain a guy named Danny Martinez is WHO throws you know in the high nineties? I mean he's a candidate as well melvina Don who's a prospect for the giants Who who also throws in the high ninety? The giants have a lot of these guys who who really can bring it and there really is no Kind of rhyme. The reason As we know it right now. Who's GonNa Pitch when and I the reason? I think this is an important question. Even though the giants are are not going to win the the division this year. They're not going to go into the playoffs. They very well might have the fourth straight losing seasons. You might think well what does it matter. Well you know what it's going to be a long season as it. It is probably with a lot of youth in fits and starts and You know some bad stretches but I'll tell you what if the giants do get leads three to five to four whatever and they can't find somebody consistently close them in the ninth inning. That is really going to make it a long season. I couldn't even tell you who the incumbent is right now It could be Tony Watson it it could be Sean Anderson And you know the good thing for the as of course as we we know now blue. They're closer is going to be. But who is going to catch for this team as we go into question four for the four key questions for the as I I mean. Are they going to add a veteran catcher. You checked in with Nick Hundley the other day to see if maybe he might be talking to you. It's GONNA it would do Henry it. It certainly would be somebody on a myrlie contract invite to Spring Training and kind of mentor. The young catchers Murphy in on US an island. Good much like the as did two years ago with Jonathan Lucrative. Who's incidentally is still out there? But I think he's talking to other teams. The best bet for me is if the as it's really do want to add a veteran help AAA give them some debt. Maybe mentor. Some of the young guys Is it somebody that they will pick up toward the end of spring training. Eighty maybe as other teams are making tough decisions but it is one unusual is very fierce. Said almost no turnover very unusual in that respect but the catching spot right now alley so young to me. I do think you might want somebody in there to give those kids a little bit of a you know a taste of the experience and be able to ask some answer. Some questions. Of course coaching staff is fully catcher including a moment. Yeah and of course you still could sign Hundley. He could spend four days a week in his new the job as a as a league office disciplinarian and stuff like that which he just did the other and then he could spend the the other couple of days Ah Getting a few at bats for the as just like he did last year. Yeah I think that were in that case he he actually also go back to the giants to then right. I mean I mean just do that part time who would be phenomenal skies. Could do that just pop in and out so Henry For You oh The you talked about the giants being a little bit of a different situation from the as and from different from what we're used to the giants but is there anybody Eddie on the roster that maybe you expect some positive like a a wildcard Kinda guy. Yeah yeah I I hated to write. The words wildcard into print. Because so I think somebody's scanning in the story might think I'm predicting the giants are going to be in the playoffs Not Quite there yet. But yeah I think the giants do have a wildcard and to me that's Alex Dickerson This is the guy the giants got for practically nothing Last year and I mean he came out of the Chute and had a six. RBI game for the giants with a couple of homers in Arizona I mean he named himself to the fans right away the problem with Dickerson as anybody who's followed him knows he cannot stay on the field. He's he's a guy who's constantly instantly hurt And he's one of those guys you look at it and go. Wow if you could get five hundred at bats out of this guy He could he could put up. MVP caliber auber numbers and Right now Alex Dickerson is completely healthy. Last year After I mean he he's twenty nine years old Last last year he hit two ninety He had an opium of almost nine hundred but it was only one hundred. Seventy one plate appearances because the injuries cropped up again And this time it was a latte issue aside aside issue and then he tried to compensate for any hurt the other last so they put him on a on a program to try and in You know make them more flexible or whatnot. So so we wouldn't get hurt and if they could get three or four hundred at that side of Dickerson not not not gonNA shoot for the Muneer with six hundred at bats if they could get three or four hundred at bats out of Dickerson And he can put up. You know even remotely the kind of numbers they had. I mean that answers a huge question for the for the middle of the lineup for the giants and that of course is what freaks out the fans the most I will say. There's another wildcard in different ways. Johnny Cueto Oh because I mean he's supposedly completely healthy from Tommy John Surgery he did come back toward the end of last year. But you really I mean don't know exactly How many innings you are going to be able to get from him? I mean even the organization wants to kind of wait and see. I don't think he's going to get the two hundred innings that He's accustomed to getting but again if they can get him. One hundred fifty hundred sixty eight hundred seventy innings and. He's somewhat like the Johnny of old. That will help them That will it'll so help. They'll help him avoid hundred losses. Maybe I help them. Avoid Ninety losses and We alluded to this to the giants. Bullpen this is like the one the one question that in both the you and I had really is is the bullpen. And it's always an important question a Susan for any team really but I think especially for a team that has playoff aspirations like the as so you're number three key question For the twenty twenty season is what will the bullpen looked like in initiative as do a lot of guys coming back including Liam Hendriks says the closer serves as Bacon. Last year was all star in the process when Blake China. Went South but trainings. It's gone Use Marrow Petito. Everyone's favorite sort of do everything reliever is back. which is a is a huge anchor? So don't think if they bullpen as necessarily a major question mark or problem area. But you'll remember two years ago that that was the bullpen and last year was It was a struggle with training and Luchino every now and particular really having a tough time of at Levino coming back for his third now big league season. He's a big question mark you know. Can he get back into a setup role and The as were hopeful of that last year and he made some adjustments that here and there but I just never got on track axo he will be one interesting Guide a look at and then Chris Bassett if he doesn't wind up in the rotation which looks like he won't right now can he be kind of a swing. Man as he is six star he And Dino Mingling are both out of options the bullpen looks like maybe a the only possibility for either one of them right now now now what happens there so there are some interesting things potentially going on in the as bullpen. It's really one of the few areas where they don't have a an absolute kind of set set idea what they're doing and before you ask me my number three question I'm an interesting. Four hundred eighty had an interesting take on this when we talked to him the other day. It said that the new rule that requires Will require relievers to face at least three hitters might change the way the giants actually look at the bullpen the later innings instead of having a bunch of one inning. Guys you might have more guys who can throw to full innings three full innings sort of alternate them in and out because the theory being if you have to have these guys face three batters anyway you might as well Sort of expend expend them for the rest of the game And then just you know maybe count on somebody else the next day. Of course you have to have enough arms Durable enough arms to do something like that. which which is why he said that during spring training even the guys who are quote Unquote Short relievers They're going to be extended attended out in spring training so they can throw two three innings and then sort of at the end of spring. They'll kind of decide which guys they might want for that role and which guys that they might want to refine because because ultimately you're going to need maybe somebody to come in High Leverage Situation in the eighth and ninth inning and I would imagine that the as are are probably going to do something the little similar Makes you wonder you know guys like Tony Watson and Jerry Blevins who have been specialist throughout the years kind of makes you wonder about how they're going to cope. Yeah definitely but of course will always need left-handers even if they're you know Jerry blevins has always been a lucky guy but Yeah he's he's savvy enough and been around enough that I think he can handle a one inning type role but that's exactly. Why the as resigned? Jake Diekmann is he is a left-hander who can work at least an inning and plus But the is in great shape without rule you know they use marijuana Katito not only could pitch multiple innings he could pitch multiple innings every day. And then maybe add in Basseterre it or a Moncton or both of them if you do go a little long not necessarily piggybacking which has been suggested as something the as might do but yes some creative bullpen bullpen uses? Chasing we'll see that on both sides now The giants do how familiar names left. Of course Some of their stars of the past and and your question number three is about those guys. Yeah what Kim agents expect from Brandon Crawford Brandon Belt and buster Posey's especially offensively Right now The answer according to all the fans all winter is nothing because they're done and when Gade Kappler came aboard in as manager of the giants. He said. I don't believe they're done now. Of course he's GonNa be managing them. I don't know what else he could say. But the the giants CI- of theory that all three of these guys Have more in the tank offensively than they've shown in the last Few years a couple of years now belt belt it has been a pretty good offensive player on base guy. He still has power but you know. Even he had declining numbers last year. Crawford real big declining numbers and then Posey who's has been hurt and coming back from injury You know pretty much. Not even a power hitter anymore so the question is can the giants get something out of these guys because these these guys have the big contracts. They're going to be around. They're going to be in the middle of the lineup. On days that they play there could be a lot more platooning. Even with these guys this year and and The giants have hired three new hidden coaches and The hidden group as as they are called Have already been working with some of these guys down in Arizona and one of the interesting questions. I can't wait to ask that media day for fanfest and as the season goes on. What kind of adjustments These players players have been asked to make To try to get them to kind of unlock whatever hitting they might have left none. None of these guys are old old man I mean. They're all in their early thirties and We know now that that's not. That's the beginning of the decline time. I mean the the used to be considered declined. Time was eight thirty three thirty eighty four. Whatever now we know it's it's a little younger and it will be interesting to find out how receptive these guys are listening to? You know a bunch of new new new age hitting coaches talking about bio mechanics and all that. What kind of adjustments? They're willing to make and and how well they can adapt to them. And I think a lot of fans think this is really the the number one question for the giants this year but I I put it at number three and we will have number questions number two and questions questions number one for the giants and as we still got to go and we will get to them right after this support for this podcast comes from the health metrics. Do you have nagging aches and pains from your younger more athletic days health networks. CBD is a premium brand CBD. That may help take care of aches and pains. As well wells relieve anxiety and sleeplessness health. NEC's products are all natural. THC Free made in the USA and undergo third party lab testing to ensure quality and purity all. LCD is not the same order today with a money. Back Guarantee at health net dot com and use Promo Code Sports for twenty percent off in Henry Shona back with Susan's lesser on the joint as plus and giant splash. PODCAST we've been talking about the five key questions for both teams going into spring training. We've gotten gotten through number three four and five and Susan. You're number two question. Going into spring. Training of this is a big one. Is Chris Davis. Okay Yeah you you know it's Kinda I always try to be very kind of specific about what to look for in spring training and usually you wouldn't think Chris Davis is somebody that the the as would even be thinking about during spring spring training right. I mean he's not there's no job to win But this year I think everybody just in Iran as needs to know is he okay. He had that site injury he incurred in late May last year and just was not the same after that tried to play through it a little bit. Maybe come back a little too soon. I think has timing got thrown off. Early Scouts Coutts. WHO said all year? Look he's still looks hurt to me. The as staff and the coach the coaching staff of the training staff. They all said throughout the year note. No He's we would not be sending ending our highest paid biggest asset forty homer guy out there. If he's hurt we just wouldn't. I believe that I think timing thrown off and then his confidence got shaken and it. It's just one of those deadly spiral spiral just couldn't get out of it so it isn't even waiting to forty seven which that might be the. Yeah so you you know if you're the as you WANNA see. Chris Davis come out and and hit a few balls out of the park. Pretty early on and maybe get into a little group just to competent. Everyone's minds at rest. You didn't even have to to to forty seven days. He just needs to hit four homers. Definitely our best. Yeah he needs to protect the guys in front of him and beyond base for her over one hundred thirty home runs in the two thousand sixteen seventeen and eighteen seasons giants would like to trade for him. I learned most teams with so Henry Anyhow is The giants rotation shaping up for your number two question and I think a lot of people probably are wondering that yeah you know. I think this is probably what you would consider under the area of strength right now for the giants and the point of my asking. This is the number two question. It's not just because It can keep a team competitive if you have a good rotation station but as we saw last year with far Hans I eighty I mean the giants are still in a rebuild mode and I think he would like nothing more than to see some great performances promises out of guys like Johnny Cueto Jeff Samardzija maybe even newcomers like drew smiley and Kevin Gausman possibly to trade them and get more youth Get More Jalen Davis's and Mauricio do bonds and so you have to go into the season with sort of that mindset. If you're a giants Fan Dan there are multiple reasons you want. the rotation to be solid But conceivably the giants could kind of maintain a indecent level of play if the rotation holds forth. And you're gonNA have Johnny Cueto at the top Jeff Samardzija number two Or could be the other way around And and gave Kappler said that Drew Smiley and Guzman Kevin Gals manner. He pretty much said they're gonNA be the number three and four stars. Then you have a whole host of of candidates for for number five. You know you have a Logan Webb the rookie. You Have Tyler Webb. WHO's you know? I'm not young anymore. But in innings wise. He's he's still young You we have Tyler Anderson. WHO's a big wildcard former rockies left-hander who's coming back from a knee surgery? You have prospects like Sean Jelly who could come quicks Seth Corey Who could come? Quick so I think that it's kind of are always been a giant strength pretty much going into spring training not have to worry too much about the rotation and it might be that way too and I think in a year like this where the offenses in question I think that you know it's it's as important as as any other year and You know I think that's true for the giants it's true for the as Then there's another question in is we go to your number one question for the as going into twenty twenty kind of fanfare. Here's question. I don't know I flip another coin. I Dunno Yeah the number. One question is something. I didn't put it on my list for the giants but You could ask the same question but pretty as kind of a key position who's GonNa play second days. Yeah this is this is the one real question honestly Kinda struggled even come up with former this is this is the one and the rest of the lineup is is set but the really right handed heavy there one left handed hitting regulars meddlesome. That's it so those would love a left handed. Hitting catcher that to me tells says Tony Kemp probably has the inside track or the as acquired him last month It'll be interesting. He was on the two thousand seventeen. Astros team There will be some conversations in the clubhouse about that at one son Dr But you no you guys got A. He's got a good reputation he's always been one of those storm into as side. Kind of guys seems to come up with big hits against Oakland so I think you know it's one of those while you look at the metrics and go like. Yeah maybe not necessarily an impressive a possibility for this position But I think as front office went out. Yeah we know that guy. We you know who this guy is so he might have a little bit of an inside edge but Franklin bredow and Matteo out of options both came over and huge trades obviously bread or the one remaining piece from the Donelson. Awesome deal Matteo part of the sunny great deal lightning-fast has not played in the big leagues. Bredow has done some chances but never really was allowed to to settle in and play every day So they are also possibility sheldon noisy. Looked really good. In at times and September call up he has options left. All three of them are right handed and vinyl a mashing the as acquired as a rule. Five Guy There's that twenty sixth man spot I suspect suspect he might have an inside track for the twenty sixth man spot. He's left handed hitting if you WANNA utility guy who's left handed hitter to go along with Chad pender. WHO's a right handed hitter? Maybe that's a spot for him so a lot of things to look at some big name guys from the as prospect list Antoni Camp Performer Astro. A plus rule five guy. That is the big question mark and you know. Hey it's the as they sign somebody or pick somebody up during spring training. We've certainly seen it before. They talked about the take. The mets as I reported during the winter meetings about Jed Lowrie The mets were willing to pick up a lot of that contract. Which I'm not sure they are? I could see that happening. He's a switch switch hitter the as noam that would be a an interesting little reunion. And you know you know billy will bring him back at some point now Henry your number one question that that I'll do the fantasy. What what is on TAP You mean Is there is question number number one on my question. Number one is is the giants best player for Twenty Twenty even in the organization And I tell you I've been doing these five questions like you have going back to the days where we used to write these out. Longhand in old English calligraphy alliance sent him out to the scribes for proofreading And I've never asked a question like this In the five questions but you know we saw for number one. We saw with far Hans -iety last year. He's a tinkerer I mean he will. He's not afraid to use the waiver. Wire he's not afraid to change the roster anytime and you know I mean. It's so much talk before last season and into spring training about who's GonNa hit where and who's going to do what and then the two best players on the team ended up being Mikey Stransky who. They signed like as they were packing their bags leaving Scottsdale for home And then Kevin are are they traded for In the first week of the season and they ended up Being the the two best hitters on the team and so I think the key here is that you. You can't can't go into spring. I see I always see people. Putting projected lineups out there and projected win totals and all that. But how. How do you know when it's quite possible that You know there's a player out there that the giants had been eyeing who might end up on waivers with another team or the giants have been talking trade with team but they can't get the trade done until the season begins which is what the case was with Pilaro last year. And that's what makes this kind of a rebuild sort of interesting and I think that the giants giants would love to be in a position. Where the number one question would be who's GonNa play second base Because right now the giants number one question is who's GonNa play anywhere and and You know who's going to be actually paying meal money and spring training to the guy who might end up being their number one player and with that what we have gone through the five questions and I appreciate the Susan. This is a lot of fun. let's do this again. Yeah will you mentioned tinkerers Henry. We are both lucky enough to cover teams that tinker a ton. So I think that will engender a lot of conversations. I look forward to our next one yet. We should. I mean we could be either come to Mesa this spring or you can come to Scottsdale where we could meet in a demilitarized zone. Wow whereas at Tempe campus the tempe is the demilitarized zone. Okay Susan great talking to you fantastic. Thank you all for listening and stay tuned for many award giant splashing as plus podcast from spring training. Which begins this week in Arizona? As plus part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. Andre Cooper is the editor in chief. If you like this show please subscribe Tele Friend or give us a review follow me on twitter at Susan's lesser or you can email me at s lesser at SF Chronicle Dot com support as plus and a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco. Chronicle there are print print and digital editions find out more at S._F.. Chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
Marty Lurie on Baseball's Changing Game
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it. Wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the giant splash. Henry Shulman the chronicles beat reporter on here with Marty. Lurie for part two of our podcast from spring training in Scottsdale Arizona. In the first one we talked all things giants. I hope you'll listen to it if you haven't already wherever you get your podcast today we're GonNa talk about some bigger issues in the game itself. Just a reminder. I that we would like to give you a chance to have a say in what we cover. WanNa know what you want to hear and how you feel we can make our podcast better. Please take a short survey at. Sf CHRONICLE DOT COM SLASH PODCAST survey. If you complete it you'll be entered in a drawing for one of five one hundred dollars gift cards it short. And we'd really like to get your feedback. That's SF CHRONICLE DOT com slash podcast survey onto part two. Marty Lurie right after this. Hello Hello Peter Hart Lob you may have heard from the east coast media and even the White House that San Francisco has literally become a toilet and we completely disagree. The big event podcast is becoming total. Sf and we're going to highlight with still great about Francisco will interview colorful characters share history pay tribute to our favourite. Sf movies and just have fun to listen for the Cable Car Bell Total SF wherever? You get your podcasts. Reshow that with Marty Lurie I? I went to the press conference yesterday. That Rob Manfred here. I actually wanted to ask them a non astros question and then I realized if I stood up did I'd have two hundred journalists who pick up their laptops smack me in the head. I mean you've been through so much you've seen so much in this game. Where where does the Astros signed ceiling stealing scandal rank in your mind as one of the big negative developments in this game? Well it does look you go back a hundred years. John McGraw talked about it and then the Great Hall of fame and you had him on the radio. John McGraw Nineteen Thirteen. He says you know we can steal signs If the CATCHER has hand too low and things like that but telescopes and binoculars are no good. You know and that's the culture of baseball as baseball. A developed science stealing through telescopes inoculations and other nefarious means were used The giants did it in one thousand nine fifty one Al Worthington pitcher wouldn't go to the Chicago White Sox because they were stealing signs in the scoreboard. So in baseball was always. Don't do it and if you get caught they slap on the wrist. They give you parking ticket because it wasn't that big a deal. This thing became a bigger deal because of the cyber attacks we have in the world and the technology how it's taking over the world and taking the hardaway so they clearly used means that when the Ferris that should not have been used and they did it in a super technical way and they did it during the world series. It's like a movie at a Hollywood. This is a movie and they did it during the world series and they won the world series and this offends the sensibilities of everybody. So it's bigger than it's ever been for because of the technology involved in because the world that we live in where we're panicked about the next presidential election about every state we can't even get out of Iowa without a with a primary being subject to all sorts of questions because of the apps and things like that so it bothers me all right. You saw that. The game took a big hit during the thought took a big hit. During the strike of ninety four ninety five came back took a big hit From the steroids scandal. And it came back. You think this this is really going to take a long time to get you know baseball back in the graces of American public after this one. No no I don't I think the the public wants games. They want the story they WanNa know as Stanton and hit seventy home runs. Is Aaron. Judge GonNa do this? How will other teams treat? The Astros is ver- lander going to be the guy you know goes on the mound and does thing will the giants breakthrough with this young hungry team. People want the story. This doesn't go to the integrity of the game. It went to the integrity of one team using technological things to steal signs. It doesn't go to the heart of baseball not at all. I think we need games when all this stuff happens over the winter not that talk about twenty four seven look. You're the hardest working guy in in baseball you writing columns and tweeting and doing stuff all day long. That's the off season. Once we get games this is going to be forgotten. You have a twitter account right baseball at Baseball Marty. You don't use it a lot. Do you During the season I do during the season. I do and let people know when the show is going to start. Who's going to be on and things like that and while the Games are going on I like to tweet Because look for the post game was very helpful to get the discussion going getting ready for post game so I would tweet in the seventh inning. It's time for Bocce to make a move or you know better hit and run here. Put a pinch runner in here and you know do this or that and it got the conversation going. I like tweeting during the game. I don't tweet as much during the week and rogue ops they may be coming to spring training here as I understand it as an experiment. What are your thoughts on that? I love it. I saw it. I went to the Pacific League. Whatever that thing is over in San Rafael Indie Ball in the ball? I saw it. It was when Eric Byrnes. Who's doing that whole thing this special on HBO? And I saw Jenkins writes about it. Jenkins and I are on the same page. We like it and you know why like it. I'm tired of the bellyaching during the broadcast of broadcasters players. Everyone saying that was a ball. That was a strike. That was that was a striking their umpiring from five hundred feet away. I'm sick of it. Kevin Automatic Strike Zone. Whatever it may be let it be called. There's no delay the Saw IT in action. The umpire calls right away. Tired of the bellyaching I'd like to see a game without that we're gonNA bellyaching about something we all we always do. Yeah all right so the calls at first base and we haven't gotten into replay it and what's going on there but as far as the pitch ball strike and all that get it called by the computer whatever it may be. If it's accurate enough and stop I tell you. He's the empire and he's a high ball empire and this and that I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it. During the broadcast might feeling on replay. It was always that if the people in New York can't figure out in ninety seconds that the call was wrong then it should absolutely automatically be upheld. You agree with that absolutely absolutely. I think it's ridiculous. How long it takes there should be a replay booth In every stadium this eleven. Twelve billion dollar industry come on. This should be every stadium. They should have it. It should be instantaneous. It should be initiated by umpire in a replay booth. Who can look at it quickly and make a decision and that's the way it should be. I think it's nuts that that we go on for three or four or five minutes waiting for call finally this year. They'RE GONNA. They're at least going to tell you support right isn't an empire going to be miked and tell you you know what the result. I don't know if that starting this year but yeah it's like the NFL referees right. Yeah no I think the replay thing has got to be worked on the the Guy Popping off second base and getting tagged and all that kind of stuff. It wasn't meant for that it wasn't meant for that and you can't have every play every look. Abner Doubleday member George Carlin Bob. Newhart said boy. Mr Doubleday you figured it out ninety eight. How did you know? Then it's the perfect distance every player's Bang Bang every place bang you can't have replay every time. K. Marty. It's as always it's been a pleasure and thank you for joining me. I look forward to being on your show coming this season. No absolutely Saturday. We got a spot for you. I love having you on. And it's what the pre games all about it. It's the anticipation this is. What baseball's all about the anticipation of the game? That's going to happen. The giant splash is a production of the San Francisco. Chronicle support the splash and all of the chronicles great journalism by signing up for a chronicle membership at SAF chronicle dot com slash pod.
Mark Canha on Hitting, Bat Flips and Food
"What if there were a podcast just history class except five minutes long and fun? I'm King Kaufman. I think there is one. It's not your century. Join me for it wherever you get your podcasts high walk into East plus the San Francisco. Chronicle's podcast on the Oakland A.'s. And Major League Baseball. I'm your host today. Chronicler rider Matt Kawahara and today. We're joined by as outfielder first. Baseman Mark Cana- who covers a variety of topics including his ultra productive. Twenty one thousand. Nine season is approach to hitting is live and let live stance on bat flipping and his love for food and his favorite restaurants in the bay area mark. I guess just to start off a little bit about last season and whether there was anything that you felt like maybe a click for you whether it's before the season during the season anything that you maybe found that That you were able to build off their Yeah it's kind of funny. How these things happen. I started off the season. Not playing very much But I had kind of a simple plan and that was to be ultra selective about the pitches. I was swinging at and I despite the little playing time I had I had accumulated a lot of walks and I realized that what that was kind of doing for my numbers so I just kinda clung to that for a while until I got some regular playing time and then Thankfully I I was able to start swinging the bat when I got in there but This kind of the walks it. It got me going. What was the bit convince you to? Maybe try to be more selective. Was there anything in particular? Just thoughtfulness You know I there. There's only is given I kind of understood. It was easy to see at the beginning of the year. What my role is going to be at least the teams plan for me at the beginning of the year and I had to kind of look to think about it a little bit and and you know given the handed I was dealt. How am I going to make this work? How am I going to make myself valuable? How am I going to still be productive because it's hard to put up numbers this jump off the page? When you're not in there very much so I. I had to figure out how I was going to do that. And that was. That was just a big part of a singing about like. What can I do when I get in there? I can control the strike zone if even you know this is hard to get in a rhythm swinging the bat when you're not claim very much but I control the strike zone. I can be helpful in other ways and be productive you know. In with limited playing time five. Melvin said that That that might have been partly a product of just Compassi with Simeon. Who's a guy that played with? College obviously is another guy who's got pretty cerebral approach to to the game into hitting his. Did you guys talk about that sort of thing and plays this Not I don't know if we had a discussion about it but we I definitely pay attention to the way. Marcus goes about his business and he has a very different approach to hitting I do and in that he's more into the competitive nature of NFL that rather than being super technical mechanical or away with this swing nine more like a swing guy. But but I think what I could take Marcus. Kinda take page out of his book by saying well. What else can I control? Besides my swing. I can control the strike zone. And that's one thing that he talks about a lot is. It makes a big difference. You describe yourself as as a swing guy. What is it that goes into I guess what sort of maintenance do you do on your swing? How when you talk about mechanical work that you do mechanical I guess is it. Upkeep is it is it continually evaluating and finding whether they're tweaks to make or how how do you go about maintaining your swing I think it all. It just depends where you're at in different points in the season like there's times like right now. I'm making adjustments. It feels like every day. 'cause I'm trying to kind of find it. We haven't had fifteen to twenty minutes or something like that. So are you making a lot of adjustments day to day whereas when you get going on a roll you're just trying to stay locked in? You're you're not looking at too much on video. You're just saying you know you're feels you know what it looks like. I'm video and you see it and you just try trying to hammer home. The concepts that you know are working for you and so it just varies. It depends if season is full of ups and downs in. When I think when we're going bad we tend to want to change a lot and when we're going good we tend to just be like okay. Let's just stay right near laying right here right this out there some hitters. Who if they are in sort of down Downtime they'll they'll put in a lot of extra work and try to work themselves through it and there are other guys. You say. They don't want to do that. They just want to stick with the same routine and and keep it similar eventually. It'll even out. What side of that do you fall on if it's gone through a restaurant I'm the workhorse type I'm a guy that video swings change up your way room routine. Maybe you know everything. I'm trying to do whatever I can probably out of desperation. A little bit of panic. Little bit of everything you know we we all. WanNa play well every day and that's just not how it goes in this game So I think I think there's other times when I asked year when when I wasn't playing at the beginning of the year but is getting walks. I just kind of waiting patiently. Though I wasn't really working to crazy I knew it was just a matter of like Gideon getting some reps and I kind of knew I was a good place and just waiting for like a sample size for it to come out. Did you feel like you went through a down? Stretch it all last season or was it pretty consistent for It was pretty good last year. Last year's pro is the only season in my career. Minor League Major League anywhere where I really can't think of a time. When I was really going to bad I always did a pretty good job. In a great way the walks that we talked about before a great way of kind of Evening out those numbers so I feel like even may days. I didn't get a hit. There was a walker to in there. You're like well. My on-base percentage went up today. You know like I didn't get a heads but my basement up and I scored a run. You know I helped. So it's a great way to bridge those moments when you're from when you're doing well to win you're not doing so well when you to get back into a rhythm is the walks in the scene pitches and stuff like that. How much video do you watch and is it is it mostly are largely video of your own swing in evaluating that or I would assume there's some of opposing pitchers as well. How much video. Where did YOU A Bit? I typically for thirty minutes to thirty forty five minutes. I'll watch the starting pitcher every day. maybe a few relievers that. I you know I'm not familiar with And then when I'm struggling for a lot more time but but I I really I think video is can be a good tool but it also can be something that you can get bogged down and it will become a negative thing if you look too much into. It are you. Are you an analytics guide? You do you pay attention to certain metrics or any particular numbers when it comes to evaluating hitting or you're on hitting I don't the advanced metrics no I because I don't know what goes into or even what some of them are. Call there you know. I don't really know I just Kinda. I pay attention to kind of a nerd in that. I pay attention to the old kind of analytic model. Numbers like on base percentage slugging. I'm into I care about my OPI- s more than I care about my ex. Well you know I don't even know that it is so yeah. I think it's impossible for us to if we as players get worried about those numbers you just. It's too much so when you're up at the play you're not trying to act like create launch angle or you're not thinking about exit velocities or anything like that. No No. I'm trying to hit ninety seven. I'm trying to yet. I'm trying to touch the ball first and then go from there just square up the baseball. I think we're all trying to do. Maybe you work on creating launching. I guess if you're if you really want to in your work but not once you go up there. Everything goes out the window. You're just like it becomes more animalistic competitive sin like scientific. Who's WHO's your toughest. Sit back in the majors who has been your toughest fat. You think. Oh man trying to think of a guy who historically Felix Hernandez was always really tough for me. Even though I didn't get him when he was throwing very hard you know. He's only throwing at the most ninety three miles an hour a win when my rookie season when he tried his best He's one of the most challenging once. the Astros guys are always tough care? Coal last year was really tough grank. He's really tough Clayton Kershaw was kind of weird timing. Yeah I mean those are few. I was curious. If you'RE GONNA say Felix Felix is actually the pitcher. You had the most plate appearances against in the majors. And I think you're one for twenty with homer exactly. Yeah do you remember the Homer I do? It was my rookie season. And Yeah it's like one for twenty with one homer and probably like fourteen strikeouts What was it that made him so tough. I guess even at that point in his career for you. It's when he throws the ball. It's like no matter how many times I face him you just. It always moves and it you never know out of his hand which way it's going to move it was how it's either darts to the right and or Dr civilised and you just don't it's I could never pick it up. There was just so he. I'm up there just like I feel like I'm swinging playing wiffle ball kind of like he's just making it move all over the place and it's just it was really hard for me to get him in the strike zone and and trying to figure out like she's has so much deception to what he does on the topic of home runs. What is the official start of bats looking season? I guess as soon as I hit a home run so waiting on my first one this spring so I don't know we'll see we'll see what happens but Bob also pointed out this morning that you have carried over the plates. Flynn in this in the sense that you've been drying walks this spring so far. Do you feel like you have things that you can build on from last year that you're carrying over into this spring already. I absolutely. I think that always plays because when you get into the heater competition things happen. I'll say like you know all the reports all the percentages. Throw it out the window because when you get into playing these games. Count pitchers make sakes pitchers can't find the strike zone. I think that people always give pitchers too much credit in that. They assume that they know where the ball's going. And I think being patient for Year Pitch and dissuading pitch the actually see well as opposed to Yeti hair much anticipating too much. Like what's GonNa Happen? I think this is a big thing for me will always be a big thing for the rest of time signs. Baseball's a game. And if you go up there and you're like I'm probably going to swing at this pitch. Probably GonNA swing at it no matter where it is if you go there and you trust yourself to be able to know where you want to hit the ball where you want it in the zone and and waiting impatient for that edge. I think that's GonNa be who've you more often than not and I think a lot of guys get nervous and get nerves in there and just they don't WanNa hit with two strikes or you know they want to give you a bad over with more than they want to get a pitch to think that I think that will always be like an approach to have on. Certainly try to carry that into this year as plus. We'll be back with more in just a moment with Mark Hanna. Everybody Joe Garagiola here. On the chronicle senior political writer and host of it's all political. Not only do I talk all the presidential candidates and leaders like Gavin newsom and Nancy Pelosi. But I talked to insiders and experts and smart people. But what's going to happen next in national state politics on my podcast. We talk like real people not like a bunch of dorks and Blue Blazers from Washington DC. So remember whether a political junkie or low information voter it's all political you mentioned Just in the early part of last season still having to sort of get used to your role and how they were gonNA use you And then Bob this just this morning said that Your numbers would suggest everyday player. And there's going to be probably a priority to have you in the lineup as much as possible. Even if that means moving around to different positions is that I guess first of all is that encouraging here and then also how do you I guess? Prepare on the defensive side of just having to play all the different positions usually and then also mixing a little first base How do you prepare for that I think the important thing is just doing the work and and being confident in your work and that comes from shaggy and DP and taking everything seriously and the more work like more real work I put in the more. I really be thoughtful when I'm working and I it it gives you confidence your preparedness. Ob leader confidence which leads to good defense. In my opinion I think in defense most important thing is to not be tended out there and be confident insertive and aggressive at times. And that's where I'm ultimately. That's where you WANNA be. How did you make yourself into such a versatile outfielder? He's I mean. Look remembering like the days. It was a lot of first base Primarily and then how did you sort of get to the point where you can play all three outfield positions? You think I mean I. It wasn't really by choice. It's kind of just. Hey we're in left field today. Hey you're playing center. Hey your plan right. It's just go out there and do it. I don't I don't always decide who I rarely decide where I'm going to play on the field I just say this. I've always been a good athlete. I've always I've never. I could've done that in college. I just wouldn have anybody to play first base so I had to play first base and that you know that's just how it goes. You know so I I think the hitting always plays so just keep hitting and let them do whatever they want with me in the field. I could care less and you want to ask you quickly about the The backflip which is something that you've done for a couple of years and just sort of your It's become such a controversial. Might not be the right word to describe it but there are people who think. Hey it's great. It's a lot of fun to watch. It's fun to watch hitters. Celebrate when when you when you hit a home run their other people who may be a little more traditional or visit either showboating or showing up the pitcher what's sort of your overall Worldview on the bat flip flip I think live and let live Mike. I'M NOT GONNA go around like telling people what to think about backflip. So you can like it or you can not like it and that's your deal. It's kind of like anything else. I all I know is what I now. So I'm not GonNa go tell you actually you so I'm kind of like why don't you just let me do my thing and and I'll let you do your thing and and let's live together. Do you have a particular one that you would think? Hey that was executed. Well those Hanno. It's aw it's all just spur of the moment really There's one in Minnesota last year where we were kinda getting beat down early in the series in Minneapolis and they were hitting a bunch of homers and kind of flipping and it was the one where I was like really like if I get one here. I'm GonNa let him know about it because they're definitely letting US know about it so I got one and it was a big. It was nice. It was like a game tying homer. Maybe a go ahead homer the seventh inning of a close game and and I've flipped it like super high. It was like a baton and now is one of my one of my favorite ones just because I was like man. I really wanted to get those guys and I only got him. Do you admire other hitters? Backflips wants to stand out to you. In terms of Yeah I like it. I like it as long as it as long as it happens. Organically you can tell when a guy does it or can clear when it's kind of like planned out a little bit As long as it's like you can tell I think it's just really comes up naturally it. That's what makes it the most fun as you're like. Oh man he's hitting home. Run is kind of the coolest thing you can do in. Sports in my opinion is the hardest. You know people say hitting baseballs the hardest thing to do in all sports and if it's the ultimate achievement right is best thing you can do is hit a home run. So I think if a guy in score a touchdown you know dance. Why can't we flip about That's how I guess our version of it and I think we should just celebrate that last WANNA cover with. You is one that I know you talked about quite a bit but You have for a few years now done. The the big league fruity grandparents where Post pictures of some of the meals that you have either way in the bay area or on the road and and you've been free pretty into Food Swan. What how did that start? And was it something that you kind of always wanted to to kind of get into in terms of just airing out your your meals when you were in the in the minors Why I've always been kind of open and and to try new things and trying different kinds of foods and and the Foodie thing I mean. I went to cal. And there's a lot of different kinds of food that you could experience there It's kind of a melting pot of different cuisines and I kind of just tried everything and decided that I was passionate about food and I really liked trying different things and so I got to the I got to the big leagues and I had actually met one of my friends that went to cal. Ironically His girlfriend at the time was a food blogger and she's telling me like about it and I was kinda interested and she's like yeah. I'm actually like I get paid sometimes to do stuff like this is my job and I thought that was super cool and I was like well. I'm going to do that like and and my and once I get to the big leagues I was Kinda like I had a platform to do it and I was like all right. Now is the time. Let's have fun with this. You know disposable income and whatnot and As just something that has a way for me to use social media that that I can enjoy it and Before I was never really into posting on instagram or posting on twitter. But now I am because I want to share my adventures with the world and I want to things that I've been able to do. Just because of this why men dominate Cran is famous Michelin Michelin Stars. Women Chef Erica. One of my favorite shafts have been there are multiple restaurants hers and I mean just crazy stuff like people replying to my hosts and stuff that like like other bloggers from somewhere some other country and stuff like just stuff like that where it's made me made me like genuinely interested in kind of that world and getting away kit staying away from like the negative side of it and getting into. That's the part that I really enjoy about instagram. Have you Have you always had a pretty like refined palate or I kinda cringe when I hear that word refi like term refined palate because I think food is not necessarily about having a refined Palette or whatever I mean yeah I guess you can have a refined Palette in the sense that you tried more things experience. Different kinds of things But I think food is a uniquely personal experience and it's different for everybody so like my wife is a huge thirty. Maybe a bigger foodie than I am. She watches food network. Show she genuinely like knows a lot about her. Knowledge is greater than mine and There's restaurants go to that. We disagree on where she's like that. I don't think it's that good and I'm like no. I think it's good. I live really liked it. We both consider ourselves. You know we've either reading these restaurants together most of the time so I think it's different for everybody and that's what's great about. It is to just try different things so you know what you like. It actually tastes the food. I think a lot of people eat food. And they're just they don't think about it like is this good or is this bad. They're just like oh assaulted. Young like you know or whatever I go fat yum like there's flavors that are in there that you're not or that are out there that you may not be aware of and I want other people to know that Just a quick round of I guess memories are restaurants meals that you w- what was the best of? What was some of the best meals that you had while in the minors on the minors They make a hell of a peanut butter sandwich. Minors Greensboro North Carolina. Had A lot of great food and and for someone who grew up in California. I was not accustomed to be in south and and Tasting different kinds of foods like that in a small town for Infra small town. I think there's just so many good like like barbecue and not just barbecue like gastro pub and different things there. They had great Sushi restaurants. Go TO SO I. I don't know trying to think but I I don't know if there's like a one meal that stuck out because I wasn't going to the types of restaurants where you're like. Oh that was like one of the best meals in my life but like just the first time I tasted like a good barbecue joint in North Carolina was like Whoa. I didn't know barbecue could be this good. You know favorite restaurant or two in Oakland Millennium and Rahman shop I haven't been to the Michelin Star. One area. Forget what it's called but Bosnian trying to go there for years and I haven't. I haven't made it yet but I'm going to about Greater Bay area outside of Oakland like maybe San Francisco or go Shape and East and Berkeley and Telia Cran and I also like one S- called Banou. What's the Best Ale road city for Food New York Hands Down? That was probably a A. GimMe Easy do you have a favorite spot in New York Been to a lot of good restaurants in New York. One of my favorites. I don't know if it's like the best food. I've had a New York one of my favorites with you. Combine the food and the atmosphere like just to cool restaurants. I go to is the restaurant in the nomad hotel. is one of my favorite places to go as the car rolls by here on the concourse Ad Hoc. Tim Stadium of. You've been here now for. I think five seasons. And what's the one of the biggest differences? I guess offices just the the amount of turnover has been very small that a lot of players returning from last season A rotation that looks really strong with a couple of guys who are going to be rookies and probably playing pretty big roles This team is coming off back to back. Ninety seven seasons and wild card appearances. What do you feel like is the potential for this team? This year The Sky's the limit on paper. Everything looks good and and we know we got a lot of everybody's knock on wood stain healthy. I think we can win the division. I think but anything could happen. So we have to go out there and do it and You know that there's a lot that goes into that you have to say healthy. I think if we can stay healthy and kind of keep our eyes on the big picture which I think should be winning the world series. That is what we should be. That's what our mindset should be and you know controlling kind of that and if we can keep our eyes on a big picture and not just like the day to day like how do we need to get past this game. How do we know we need to win? The world series. We don't need to win April seventeenth against whoever you know like we need to win all of it and I think that is my opinion. We need to do Marquette. Thanks for joining US. As plus thanks our. Thanks again to mark Hanna for joining us on the east. Plus our producers today were G Allen Johnson and King Kaufman. We'll be back again later in the week. As plus thanks for listening as plus as part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. Audrey Cooper is the editor in Chief. He liked this show. Please subscribe Tele Friend or give us a review follow me on twitter at Susan's lesser or you can email me at Esl. Lesser at SF CHRONICLE DOT com support as plus in a lot of great journalism with a subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle there are print and digital editions find out more at SF chronicle dot com slash subscribe.