28 Burst results for "Kevin System"
Big tech CEOs testify before Congress
"So, this hearing just going to say it, it was six hours of chaos. So. So many things like individual moments of pure chaos happened this hearing. But because every member of Congress was only given five minutes to ask the questions in and they moved on, no one could process the moments of cash. So here are some things that happened during this hearing. Jeff. bezos just started eating nuts on his call. That was just a thing that you started snacking for the first ninety minutes. It appears that basis had tech issues was operating in some kind of delay. So we didn't hear from him. They just answer any questions and they'd take a ten minute break Jeff. bezos could fix his computer. Amazing. Jim Jordan, who McKenna pointed out. On the show last week is always sort of chaos element. Try to talk over several members of Congress got yelled to put his mass back on floated. Just elaborate conspiracy theories. was when I say was chaos I. Don't know if there's any other way to describe it. I. Think that led a lot of people to think the hearing itself didn't accomplish its goals, but I think in many ways it did. But Kennedy you WanNa Kinda go through what the committee was trying to accomplish the themes they were pointed at in. How hearing played out, right. So okay. First off. Harkening back to last week I mentioned Jim. Jordan's mountain dew obsession. Definitely drink a handful those throughout the hearing I took notes in screen shots. So, I, called it. But regardless of their pores soda choices, there were a lot of lawmakers who definitely did their homework and I think that was really apparent throughout the entire hearing and when I look at. The picture that they tried to paint I think that became really clear in chairman Sicily's opening statements. So this is the guy who liked. And spearheaded the entire investigation from the beginning, and in those opening statements, he pointed out that yeah Apple Amazon Google facebook. There are different in a lot of ways and they exhibit anticompetitive behaviors potentially allegedly and a lot of different ways. But what they tried to pull together and was a story, and it's really hard to tell a story and five minute fragments. But what happened yesterday was Sicily. Ni, and a lot of the Democrats on the Committee wanted to point out that these companies they become bottlenecks for distribution whether that's information or just like APP stores marketplace's they control what gets distributed in how what was really key to the investigation was how? How they survey competitors. If you have so much control dominance over a market or a specific part of the tech industry, you have a lot of insight into your competitors and you can do a lot of dangerous things with that, and then lastly, after that dominance has gained, it's how they abuse it. Right? How they abuse it to make harder for small businesses in competitors and I think that's exactly what Cellini pointed out in the beginning and I think they did a poor job that storytelling throughout the process. But I think that's also our job. Right is to pull that evidence together and tell that story for them in a way that isn't like. Yes, no yelling at CEOS and like stopping them and I think by getting that in the evidentiary record doing all this questioning, I think they really did achieve their goal in the end. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that happened sort of next to the hearing was that they released a bunch of documents from these one point, three, million documents of clutch. Over the past year, they released pretty targeted selection documents for every company showing some of this stuff, Casey, I wrote a story about. facebook. INSTAGRAM. My I'm going to frame this email or mark Zuckerberg. Literally one sentence, no period. The Andrew says I need to figure out. I'M GONNA buy instagram like I would love to just be in a place were sending that email like super casually like I got this thing to figure out and it's not like am I gonNa buy the model of the car. It's like instagram. I've been thinking of the text messages where so and so says that Mark Zuckerberg's didn't go destroy mode on instagram ever since they got that up. Case she this to Kevin and right that text was. Yes. Well, it was Kevin. System was talking to an investor and Kevin said to the investor. If we don't sell well, mark, go into destroy mode on us and the investor side probably. Of course, stray casual. So there's just a lot of documents and I think one of the functions of hearing was to get those documents into the official congressional record to make the CEO's account for them. That did not seem very successful to me. Is like a takeaway people should have from this hearing, right? No. I think a lot of people that go into these hearings are expecting like these big Gotcha moments and expecting like a lot of news and all this stuff. But it really, it wasn't oversight hearing. You know it wasn't. They didn't come. They came at this like in a report last earlier this week that they came out at as investigators. They didn't come at it to make a big show horse and pony show out of it, and yet I think the CEO's didn't. The record well enough to the extent that they could have. But there was definitely, I was expecting them to do a lot less evasion and I expected a lot less room probation with the documents, but it's just the process of a Congressional hearing. It's. It's hard to do that in a congressional hearing. But if you put those documents out there, you get the CEO's on the record a little bit who does excite this excites the FTC. J, and that's who can take this next and then it's also congress. You know they can't break up a tech company, but they can regulate going forward and it's those three key themes that I pointed out earlier that they could regulate. You know what I mean. They could legislate to forbid companies from surveying competitors and things like that, and that's where this goes. So the format of the hearing, every member and five minute chunks, it seemed very clear that the Democrats had some sort of coordinated evidentiary strategy, they would start and. And they would say, I, want to read this email to you. What did you mean by this email and then Jeff bezos would say something like I have. No idea is on works. I. Was real pattern that developed was basis really not doing or claiming he definitely knows claiming not really no way Wayne is under the thing they did or they would ask sooner Pichai about the very granular add deal google made by an ad product, and soon I, would say I'll get back to you, which is basically all responses. So the Democrats seemed like they were coordinated to move through their documents. The Republicans seem to be doing something else that also seem coordinated intentional, but what was their focus because that seemed clear split my takeaway from Jim Jordan who? We got into earlier, he he was interviewing. As if they were all Jack Dorsey. And as we talked about like, yeah, he invited Jack Dorsey to testify, but he doesn't sit on the antidote subcommittees. Anything. He says, it just doesn't matter. So it sounded to me as if he prepared questions Jack Dorsey and then it was like, oh, he's not coming I'll ask Tim Cook the same questions. Another completely crazy moment that happened just seen by and five minute chunks is that. Represented Sensenbrenner from Wisconsin Dear Sweet Wisconsin. Definitely. Asked Mark Zuckerberg why the Donald Junior was banned from twitter and mark. Zuckerberg was happening on twitter facebook and there was just like a moment of confused silence, and then he tried to move on and that just sort of floated by in the river of chaos to tell you how much chaos there was kneeling. When you started to tell that story, I thought you were going to tell the story about when Jim Jordan asked him cook if the famous one, thousand, nine, hundred, four, Apple Super Bowl, AD was actually about twenty twenty cancel culture, which is another thing that really happened. I think that's out of context. He didn't ask him. He said clearly, this is. That's definitely what Steve Jobs was thinking IBM is canceled culture and Apple's going to break it with hammer and Jeff. Bezos said that social media is a nuance destruction machine and all this crazy stuff from that. It was a wild will that that particular question when Jim Jordan asked, do you support the cancel culture mov, you could see the CEOS like. 'cause they went in order. He asks them all in order. So First Tim Cook just like basically muttered nothing. Here's like I don't. I support speech whatever. The iphone a keyboard like that was his answer. Sooner per child also, just like muttered, right? He's like Google has always supported free expression Zuckerberg like saw the opportunity and took it and the forces of liberalism I rising I, and then basis was like I cannot. I cannot do in like went for it, and that was just totally insane moment. But it also seems like the Republicans were intentional to try to create their own moments where they were yelling at CEOS about bias on platforms is obviously something cover a. At. You were paying a lot of attention that case you're paying a lot of attention to it. Do you think that was effective in creating because you know there's like a parallel conservative Universe Jim? Jordan was on Tucker. Carlson. Last night like was that effective or d think that the CEO's were able to sort of tamp down on interesting the Tucker Carlson pointed out that Google and other companies are all big donors to Jim Jordan another folks. So that is a weird side, but I think it was actually besides the moment where they mixed up twitter with facebook I. Think this was much more effective off. Off Topic yelling about technology than we usually see like are genuinely issues that like they are upset about that, they could point to largely around like cove nineteen misinformation and they could at least like pick those topics and stick to them rather than kind of asking vague questions about like, why is my phone listening to me? Well, they're definitely asked questions about why are my campaign emails getting filtered by G mail? Yes. I should. I should mention that they have really and they have all of these cases where they ask about extremely specific one off incidents that anyone who has used social media knows happens constantly. And, then turn them into a sinister pattern. But I think they managed to come off as sounding more like they understood what they were talking about the unusual. I think that was a real theme of the hearing, Casey. What did you think of this sort of bias side show that occurred? Well, I mean the the idea that conservative voices are being suppressed is foundational to the conservative movement and is behind the rise of conservative talk radio. It was behind the rise of Fox News. Now that social media exists, we have seen it in this new form, but it is sort of being presented as extra, sinister and worthy of. Some sort of legislative intervention what frustrates me about it is that much more than newspapers or or cable news like Mark Zuckerberg Dorsey. These people benefit hugely from having all possible voices on their platform. None of them is incentivized to drive conservatives off their platform. What they are incentivized to do is have rules that make the place safe and welcoming. So that people want to hang out there and so to the extent that there are issues on the platform, they've largely come because these platforms have rules. And you know you would think that a bunch of free marketeers would realize that the alternative to the system that they're so mad about would be creating a new system, but they don't seem at all interested in doing that. So I just sort of dismissed all of them as charlatans I actually thought it was interesting that the opposite track came up, which was the Stop Hey for profit campaign I kind of wasn't expecting that. The representative Raskin I believe asked facebook. Basically, why aren't you kicking more hate speech off. I forget who else asked like look is the point that you're so big. You don't care about advertiser boycotts I. Mean, you know it will here. Here is a fact that the number one complaint that facebook gets from its users, the thing that users. About. FACEBOOK is that it removes too much content and so if you're running the place, you do have to take these complaints seriously in a way. Right? It might not be you know that you shadow band conservative whatever that even means on social network in twenty twenty. But the fact that you're removing content is really upsetting people. So you can't dismiss that idea entirely, but I still don't feel like we're having that intellectually honest conversation about it. So this was definitely I feel like you can connect the you control distribution. We're GONNA show the abuses of power narrative. We got other. Democrats. With the you control distribution. You're banning conservatives right like I. Think what's Sensenbrenner Again, cups and conservatives are consumers to is that people don't realize that like fifty percent of the population in many ways. But facebook has like famous conservatives working its highest levels Kevin. We last week, we're talking about Kevin Roose keeps sharing the list. List of the most engaged content from crowd tangle. It's all conservative content, and that's so problematic for facebook that they're. They're pushing back with other metrics and graphs of their own, making the facts just aren't there, but it doesn't seem to be convincing. Brett Kevin is being asked to recuse himself from facebook case because he's like best friends with facebook I, AP I wrote a column almost two years ago. Now, arguing that conservatives were trying to redefine. Any conservative identified person having any unwanted outcome on a social network, right? So bias is your name was higher than mine in search results. Bias is used suggested that I follow a Democrat and not a Republican right, and if you take action on your policies that apply to everyone against me a conservative that is biased against conservatives, right. So and by the way I have to say this has been hugely successful because we've talked about it. How many minutes now and the longer that these discussions. Discussions. Go on. They just sort of refi people's minds. The idea that there really is a vast conspiracy to silence conservative speech because he's networks are so big millions of conservatives are having experiences like this every day, and now there is an ideology that is basically a religion for them to attach to, which is although Silicon Valley liberals are out to get. Reason I wanted to talk about the conservative side show, which in many ways was a circus is it feels like the notion that we should be punitive to the companies or mad at the company's. Bipartisan, right we were. We were not looking at a hearing where the Democrats were on the attack. Republicans are saying we love. Apple. We're looking at hearing where they were. Everyone was mad. There are a couple of exceptions to that. There were a couple of I think sensenbrenner and a few other folks were like look we want to be clear. Big is not bad. We just WANNA make sure we're not punishing you for your success, but you were like almost entirely, right? Yeah. I. Mean I. think that's it's important to. To capture that mood like Jeff Bezos Mark Zuckerberg, Tim, Cook soon. Darpa, try they usually get to finish whatever sentence they start saying. Right. They're not used to being interrupted. Their thoughts are usually like you know they get to live in complete sentences and people take them seriously here in five in intervals, they were interrupted almost every time they started speaking to be told that they were wrong that they were filibuster at one point Sicily said stop thinking is for the questions. We can just assume they're all good questions. They. Were getting yelled at and they're going yell that about a variety of things that were pretty specific. So you kind of in your kind of structure here. The first one was controlling distribution. What did you hear as a hearing went on the indicated to that? The committee had a case here? I think the apple's APP store is one thing you know charging thirty percent cuts on certain things is just controlling an APP store. It's the same thing with Amazon's marketplace. They can inherently in control what gets placed and what gets sold and you know if they want to play with search results on Amazon, they can do that, and then on facebook and Google, it's not just like products and software that's information. And it could be information when it's like Google. Google. Stealing yelps, texture views right in putting those in its little info boxes in search queries in facebook if facebook is just like an. Mation, distribution platform and. It can decide Algorithm Mickley. Knowingly. What people get to see this bution was very keen to the committee's hearing yesterday and they pointed out different aspects in which you know each company exhibited that kind of behavior. So the one that will you bring up apple? We wrote about this, say there's much emails. Apples document production is just one hundred and thirty pages of unrelated emails and whatever order see it's like scan through it. So there's a lot of little stories in there. There's one about right to repair and apple realizing it needed to repair. By watching PR people operate by reading their emails journalists. Very entertaining. They're like we had a break like here's our strategy. Here's we're GONNA. That's all in there. You can look at it, but there's a lot about the APP store itself and how they're going to use the mechanics of the APP store to control their platform, and it started at the beginning like the first emails in this production from twenty, ten there. From Phil, Schiller Steve Jobs saying, are we GONNA? Let Amazon Sell Books in the kindle store. Store, it felt like I saw an Amazon ad was hard to watch this hard to watch this ad where a person's reading a book on an iphone in the kindle APP in the pick up an android phone keep reading. He's like literally like it was hard to watch like Schiller's at home like pain what a customer is having an experience that good it really just. Heart and so he's like it was hard to watch. You fours Steve Jobs. They're like we gotta shut it down jobs is the bookstore will be the only bookstore on the APP. Store. That's the way it's going to be everyone's gotta used to it. We know that restricting payments will hurt other things, but that's what we're doing and they started there in two thousand ten and they pulled it out, and then that ladders up into everything that we've seen with, hey, ladders up into the analysis group showing up to. Apple, can pay them to say that there's independent study has revealed. Everybody has a thirty percent cut. It has landed up into Tim Cook, forwarding. He gets a letters from developers that are in this direction. It's like apples breaking my heart and he just like Ford's it. Tim, Cook forwards that email to filter credit eighty, just as thoughts like amazing like they are constantly thinking about the APP store as a mechanism of control for the platform in the leverage and other deals. So the other one was apple is this Amazon one which I have very mixed feelings on saying that this is bad or legal I'm curious for all of your thoughts famously. Did, not have the prime video APP on the Apple TV and all these other places apple, Amazon came to a deal. There's an entire presentation in this production like the slide deck of how the deal is going to work. Apple got to be the preferred seller of its own product. So third parties cancel. Apple. Products, Amazon pages, they got. They have a custom by flow. They've custom product pages, all the stuff in return. Amazon got a lower commission on the APP store and gets to Selatan products which no. No like you can rent a movie from the Amazon APP on the Apple TV, no one else gets to it in one world. This is just pure platform collision, right? Apple cut VIP deal for big companies because it wanted something and you could say this is legal in another world. It's like this is how deals work apple something valuable. Amazon s something valuable and they came to a conclusion wherever made more money and quite frankly the consumer experience platform has got better. How do you read that? Casey? That is good and fair analysis of it. I. Think I did read slightly more scandalous. Tones into it in part because apple would never acknowledge that some developers are more important to it than others even though if you assume that that's true, I think maybe one of the things that's frustrating about it is there is no transparency accountability around which developers get sweetheart deals is that once you hit a certain threshold of revenue will cut your price. Why couldn't they extend that deal to everyone right? Or is it just if we withhold something that seems particularly valuable, we can eventually drag you to the table. Table, which is sort of what seems like happened here. I think in all cases, what I'm always looking for is the accountability, right like and some sense of of equitable treatment of developers and I understand the guys are always going to get the best treatment, but it can that be publicly visible. Can it be acknowledged and there'd be routes for others to achieve that same level of success and treatment, and that I'll just seems missing here. Did you buy Tim Co? He said it twice. It was obviously A. Glimmer, of sympathy for all four CEOS. There is a lot of reporting that they had spent months preparing for this hearing like being grilled there, they'd hire outside law firms. They. Practiced they all clearly had soundbites memorized in none of them. Got To say him because it kept getting interrupted. Tim Cook had this one where he is like if we're the gatekeepers, the gates are open wider than ever. We've gone from five hundred. APPS to one point seven, he said like. A whole speech. and. The thing is there's fierce competition for developers. They don't like our store can do for android the windows. For xbox and PS. Four. Which I was like the idea that adobe is going to be like we don't want to be on the IPAD. Here's PS. Four Photoshop is insanity to me. I'm going to build a spreadsheet. APP. For the five. That's how frustrated with Tim Cook. To that ring. True to you I. Mean, there's no, it does not ring true. There is a, there is a duopoly. In the United States when it comes to smartphones, iphones have majority share in the United States and you can't say, well, you know there's there's a rogue fork of android in Malaysia that you could go develop for if you really wanted to and have that come across as a credible argument to Americans. Right it is. Natural for any monopolist to spend most of its time, arguing that it is much smaller and much less consequential as as you think it is and they're essentially always asking you to ignore what is in front of your face, which is that they are the giant. They are in control. What they say goes, and it doesn't matter which small businesses get hurt along the. The. Way I would point out that the contact and we're gonNA talk about earnings eventually. But the context for that is apple had its biggest third quarter ever this month, their revenues went up eleven percent year over year, they're making obviously making billions of dollars in their services revenue, which is a lot of the narrative around the APP stores increasing that services line. Also went up. I think it was thirteen billion. So you're right. They're very big in their earnings the day after the hearing did nothing. To reduce that impression. I want to switch to Amazon a little bit McKenna. You really focused Amazon was basis first time up there. They came at him a lot about marketplace. How did you think that went I think it went pretty good. I. Think. John Paul specifically was just like killer her questions with breakout star. Yeah. She was just like killer and she's the representative for. SEATTLE. So this is where Amazon is right. So she just like killed it and. And I think there were a couple of instances in the documents and in questioning yesterday that really pulled important things out there was like testimony from one bookseller who was like, yeah. We just can't sell a category of books and we don't know why Amazon doesn't let us do that just like testimony like that or even when it comes to like acquisitions, the ring acquisition especially, I wrote about that today through the documents and how. They said, this is for market position. This is a for technology, your talent or anything. We just bought this and that's something that base said again, yesterday he was just very clear. It's like, yeah, we do buy things market position, which is like so insane just here like the richest person in the world. But like, yeah, we're buying market position. It's just what happens. That's another one I have mixed feelings right, and by the way, people should read McKenna story because those documents have just a very funny breakdown like the pros and cons of buying. Buying ring in many of the cons like what if this turns into nest, which if you're just the verge cast listeners like it's just like the Keyword Bingo, but it's fine to say, we're buying market position like this isn't the best product out there, but it's the category of video. doorbells is not huge, right? So to by the the market leader in video doorbells is maybe the most rational use of the money. What is the problem that you think the committee was trying to show an address sense of we're just going to market position. Pointing out, they can just do whatever they want and how casual it is, and there really isn't. It's really funny to read an email like that, and we could buy it or we could just copy it or are. We could just watch. You know that was one of the emails that base from someone. Those are just three options you know and it's like just pick and choose you know. Pointed out like a lot. Just that email itself really pointed out just how easy it is for them. They used a lot of that time history to talk about copycat behaviors and to talk about just like you know buying up competitors and it just seeing that all in one little e mail having to do with the ring was like really i. think it was really kind of I opening and especially like useful for the committee. So Amazon got hit a lot for the data collection side of it of copying competitors. bezos did not seem to have great answers there. Right. So that's the. The thing they got in trouble with this. There is that Wall Street. Journal article from like April where employees were literally like, yeah. We dip into data and we use that to guide our own private label products and everybody was like Whoa and Amazon basins. Yesterday said, well, we do have a policy that bans that but giant pointed out yesterday. It's like, okay. So what's your enforcement look like you can have the policy, but like if you don't enforce it, then it's like meaningless. And then yesterday I. Think Paul was like, can you give me a yes or no answer? Do you dip into data and he's like I can't I can't give you. Yes or no, and we're just like we're looking into it. The story had anonymous sources. So that isn't very helpful to us. You know what I mean. So that was one of the main things and that Wall Street Journal article and I think it's the same kind of examples in the committee's documents. They point out specific examples like car trunk, organizers of all things. It's like weird little products like Amazon's like this is a little hot. Maybe we should do that. So I, I think. I, think they made a good case yesterday. Yesterday on that. Yeah. I mean bezos brought up that Wall Street Journal, Article himself twice, and he was like, well, your policy against it. But I can't guarantee never happened. Then there is a strange just didn't come across clear I. Think I know what the committee was trying to get at their like US aggregate seller data when there's only three sellers and then only to sellers? Yes, I. Think what they're getting at is when you're down to the aggregate data of two companies, you heard effectively looking at individual data. What is the problem? They're like the I get what you're doing. You're just reducing the denominator to get to one, but like it, why is that particular problem? Right? Well, none of these. Dipping into individual seller data and looking at aggregate data. That's not a legal. There is no law. This is all voluntary of Amazon. So they have a voluntary policy where like we can't do individual seller data, but they say nothing against aggregate and aggregate what you're getting at eight. Here you is. Does the same thing if it's just like some goofy little product they. They bring up pop stock. It's all the time before pop tops in a moment. Right? There's only like one pop. So company like you know pop soggy, it was kind of an innovative product. It's like well, if there's only two of them and use the aggregate data, you you you have everything you need to know you know about that product line looking aggregate. If that's what you decide to qualify as do you as you're looking through the other Amazon documents and other stuff. So anything jump out at you is something the committee was trying to prove or get at. The questioning seemed very focused on. Like are you using the state at a copy products? Are you buying things? You shouldn't buy. There's one question which I did not understand why came up about DMC. Take downs on twitch and Jeff as just had this look of panic in his eyes. He's like I don't know man I bought Wedge because my kids want to. Do something like that was like the side show stuff, but the real focus here, it just seemed like it was definitely in the marketplace, right? Amazon, everyone came at Amazon for the marketplace. That's what everybody knows him as like they have all these little sides. They got rain. They got Alexa Alexa was one thing too. That was kind of interesting. It's like. Are you buying things like ring to put Alexa into and dislike expand your like Titan Ism as like an Internet Internet connected home. Thing and make that more closed off and walled gardening. That was one thing. But no, it was just focusing on how much power they have to kind of change. What happens in the marketplace to kind of decide what companies in what products are able to come up on the first page of results. You know that's also something that they dug into Google and in something that one of those like themes that kind of ties everything together. We should say they all spend a lot of time talking about counterfeit goods, and why is it Amazon removed? Fake stuff from the platform and how much is it profiting off of you know selling pick rolexes? Is it surprising? The whole foods didn't show up at all they're. Like that is a really massive thing. Amazon owns that. Is it moving into a huge new product category? I think whole foods is not an online marketplace, which was the title of the hearing, not that that restricted anybody from doing anything except that, one of the things Amazon says is we have lots of competition from offline marketplaces, right? Brought up kroger a lot I mean, this is the case he's point. They all made. It seem like they were beset at any moment. They could be crushed by the likes of stop and Shop Right? Like I think the point though was really on the. Digital. Experience Consumers have and like I, don't know Ho-. Foods fits. Into that narrative, especially, because it is itself not dominant like they bought it because you needed to grow in their. Good at that at my question for you on the Amazon stuff was when you think about, we talk about two thirty a lot right like you and I in particular spent a lot time to thirty, which regulates with the platform can do with content. There's not really an equivalent of two thirty for goods on store. Right like there's some case is out there saying like you're liable for what what happens on your online store page, but Amazon doesn't have that like second order of like Messi nece around it that twitter and facebook to with two thirty, I. Mean, it gets invoked a lot for marketplace's, but it's way messier. Well, I just wanted to like this question at counterfeits question about ranking the store like they are even more free than any twitter is to to sort tweets algorithm. Algorithm clear to modern like it just their store. Do you think that they're like that Algorithm transparency? Your wire things ranked. Did you catch a sense that that's where the regulation is GonNa go. So much of the conversation around Amazon really felt like it was individuals sellers being wronged for reasons of Amazon being unresponsive or stealing. It's data. So I don't know it didn't. It didn't seem like a really big focus of the hearing, but it is a huge deal. Yeah. The, digital marketplace frame of this, which is where we have talked to. Cellini. That's where he's going right like facebook and Google very digital. They have like they don't do physical goods. Really. Apple is the APP store. It's all digital goods. Amazon is the one where it's. Front to a lot of physical things, and that is the only place where I can see this regulation needing to make some sort of like major meaningful distinction in I. Didn't see it in the hearing, but I was curious of you caught a glimmer of it. I'm not positive that they have to make a huge distinction there like depending on what they come up with because. So much of this is about their companies and whatever product they produced. The issue is more or less whether or not they're being surveilled and unfairly by targeted and crushed by that data surveillance. All right. We have gone for forty minutes. We should take a quick break. I said I wasn't going to go by company and it happens. So we should come back and talk with facebook Ango. We'll be right back. This is advertiser content. When I say utopia what comes to mind. Birds Chirping lush natural beauty dialed up and vibrant technicolor. Is it within reach. Your world world. World. explained. You are an essential part of the perfect social body. Every Body Matt Place. Everybody happy now while the peacock original series, brave new world takes place in a scientific futuristic utopia. A concept is nothing new Sir Thomas more. I introduced the theory five hundred years ago. 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These are really difficult crazy stressful times, and if you're trying to sort of cope, it could be helpful to find something that gets beyond like doom scrolling and like obsessive worried. But digs into what is really going on underneath the surface, and that's what the weeds is all about I. Matthew Yglesias. Weeds podcast here on the box meeting podcast network. This is podcast for people who really want to understand the policy debates and policy issues that shaping our world. We've seen now more than ever like how relevant policy is to our actual lives, but so much in the news isn't focused on really understanding and explaining detail way if that sounds good to you, join us for the weeds, every Tuesday and Friday to find out what's going on why matters and what we can do about it. You could download the weeds on apple spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Tracy. When it comes to facebook I turn to you. FACEBOOK is patience consumer of startups as what we've learned. Yeah. But you said something to me yesterday was interesting, which is everyone else's problems are forward looking and it feels like facebook's problems are actually in the past break for people explain what you mean. Yeah. So when Congress is looking at any trust with respect to these four companies for three of them, it's It's sort of about the marketplaces that their operating right now with facebook, the question is much more about should we have allowed it to buy serum? Should we have allowed it to buy WHATSAPP and most of the antitrust conversation that was around facebook yesterday was all about that. What did Mark Zuckerberg know about Instagram, and when did he know it? We wrote a story based on some documents that the house released yesterday. In which facebook has clearly identified instagram as a competitor. In at least some ways and wants to go after it and knock it off the table, and so that's kind of where the focuses their facebook and Burke did get a lot of other questions yesterday, but it tended to be much more about content moderation and things that don't have a lot to do with antitrust. So there was weird section where they asked the face. Face Research APP in the novel, Vpn? Any kind of got lost well, explain what happened and I'm curious reactions. Yeah. So facebook has a bunch of nifty tech tools to figure out what's trending which APPs or the kids using, and so that can essentially have an early warning system if it needs to consider acquiring something or more likely in these days, go out clone it. and. So Zuckerberg was asked about the way that the company uses these systems and if they are anti competitive I, think you know traditional antitrust law probably would not say copying an APP feature is anti competitive, but could lobby written in the future about it shirt I. Think the one that caught me was I mean, this is what I'm. McKenna's points from earlier is like one of the themes here is, are you so dominant that you can collect data that's unfair and then use that to crush or killer competitors, and definitely bought the Inaba VPN to do it. That's true. Now, when I've asked executives at facebook about this, what they'll say is they don't get surprised anymore. When you have three point, one billion people using your apps around the world. You know what links they're sharing, you know what they're talking about. And so you're not going to need some kind of specialized tool to know that WHATSAPP is really taking off. Right. So they would argue that, yes, these tools were useful to them, but you know at their scale, they know what's popular now, which doesn't really seem like addresses, the problem is reached. The fact that we're so big that we're all knowing is maybe not the defense that they sometimes presented as so here's what I didn't get. I thought, Zuckerberg I want to the instagram. What's about who's issues, but on the facebook research front, the data front, they him about this APP facebook research, which you were giving to teens. They were deploying with an enterprise certificate that story broke apple revoke the certificate, and all of facebook's internal APPs went dark, and this is a scandal story after story about it, they went on for two days. So I can I, don't recall that APP? Just how he you know, he remembers the day that all facebook's internal APPS went down and people couldn't go to the cafeteria. I would agree I found that answer. Extremely, ed? Persuasive. that. Do you think that was like actually strategic for him to be like, I, don't know and then come back later and correct the record I do remember when that happened I. Mean. I really don't know I mean also you know during a six hour hearing, it's also possible that you just you get flustered or you miss here something or or something because. Yeah. As as you say, I'm sure he remembers the day that apple turned off their internal APPS I mean. Honestly. Seems like an opportunity to talk about apple's market power, and the fact that you know a day of work canceled at facebook because apple got mad. But I think most of the CEO's didn't go into yesterday a wanted to pick fights with each other. It was kind of sad that they didn't. I was Kinda hoping that Tim Cook take a shot at soccer burger. Point that the other two APP platforms I was expecting it. It was there. It was. There was all there. So cellini ended and he ended the whole meeting with closing statement. He said, some of these companies didn't get broken out. They all need to get regulated in the off too much power that some of them I. don't these breaking up apple. What sort of break. Right like. The division get sent into the corner thing about what it's done. Right. Does should spin out the finder team I've always wanted to. A clean is always that they want to. They want the APP store to be separate from the IPHONE. Basically, that's the thing I always hear. Can't break I. Think you can write some strong regulations but not playing you're on store, right. But like Elizabeth Warren's point was it's cleaner if it's two companies, but it's still a gigantic remedy that I don't think there's a lot of like like consumer or public opinion is going to walk into an Apple Cup I think you'll radio at marketplace. It seems very clear that we says some of them she broken up he is talking about facebook. I have a twenty percent conference level. He might be talking with Google and Youtube as well. But if he's going to say some of the need to get broken up like it's facebook, did you hear anything yesterday that supported that conclusion or Saudi stocks I? MEAN HE I don't remember which Republican it was, but he was like the Obama FTC looked at this and they said it was minding love. Obama. Right. Like. Why would we go back in time to relook at I? Mean, there is a belief and I mean. Somebody who thinks there could be a lot of benefit in instagram and WHATSAPP being different companies from facebook. And the reason you ask. So many questions about that acquisition as you're making the case that it never should have been approved in the first place, and so now you need to remedy it. So that was actually like the entire thrust of the argument against facebook yesterday. I think, you could probably make just as good a case that Amazon after spin out aws, but lawmakers chose not to make that case. Yeah. I think that also gets into. Politics of the acquisition of the time. To his credit is like nobody knew instagram would actually be a success like we made it a success. It didn't happen by itself. I, don't know if the lawmakers. By award, these guys said, but I don't know that he actually made that case very persuasively. and. Who knows I mean? That's like anything could have happened. Right? Cram could've stayed independent and rapidly grown and overtaken facebook like that's something that could have happened. It could have kind settled into a middle zone like snapchat or twitter seems more likely to me although I think probably would have been bigger than those two but. You're never going to know I mean it is true that facebook gave Mike and Kevin it instagram enormous resources. A lot of the reasons why Mike and Kevin sold was because running tiny startup that's blowing up is absolutely exhausting Mike. Krieger. was dragging his laptop all around San. Francisco. Because the servers were melting at all times of the day whenever Justin Bieber. Posted like the site stopped working and they really we need help. Finding a person who can quickly fix this? So we don't have to like that is the reason that they were entertaining these offers and wanted to sell it. So that is also thing that happened. Do you think that that same kind of argument or approach can apply to what's up? What's up basically did not come up yesterday and all the focus on Instagram, but that's the other one, right? Yeah, and we know weirdly a lot less about that acquisition I. Think it's because people in America just have so much less love for what's APP generally. That, it's never seemed as important. What happened to WHATSAPP as what happens to instagram even though WHATSAPP, is used, you know way more, it probably has way more engagement even than instagram does so I don't know why that didn't come up as often. We know there was a competitive bidding war for that as well. Goule. Wanted it as well. You know Mark Zuckerberg made them an offer, they can't refuse. Do you think everyday Google's we should've spent more money on what's whatsapp like this could have been solved. Should have, but Google has been placed under an ancient curse that prevents them from ever making the right decision about any social product. So it was doomed never to happen. It's fun looking through the documents and watching them casually say they should buy facebook dot com. Yeah, that. Point. That is how they talk like the window into these executives just casually being like we should just this thing or maybe not, or we should just copied ourselves and kill it before it gets any traction like it's repeated over and over again last facebook question. This one is like harder to parse because I. There's a chance, it's October is just joking around but. But. He's in many of these emails. He's like the thing about startups, as you can always buy them, which I think the committee thinks is a smoking gun, right? Like facebook's entire plan is to buy the competition to get the data from wherever they get it to say, oh, man, this apps popping, we just buy it and kill it before it competes with us. I. Think he actually said at one point. That's a joke. Yes, he did and I believe that you know it was two thousand, twelve, right? He was probably still in his mid twenties. At that point, the company was a lot smaller like people were joking around like there's more loose talk when companies are younger and I do think. It was it was part of that. I think the more interesting question becomes. Let's say facebook is telling the truth about everything. Let's say they thought it was going to be a successful acquisition, but they never knew it was gonna big as it became today and they invested in it and it got super big. Okay. Well, now, it's as big as it is. Should they be allowed to keep? Keep it or should they be forced to spend it out and if you're GONNA force them to spin it out. What's the argument that you'RE GONNA. Make about why one question that I have a lot is clearly the referral they're gonNa make, and it seems like if you don't have some other reason, we've heard hints that there's some other reason, the FTC scrutinize this that will eventually be revealed. But what you're saying is the antitrust standard at the time, the Consumer Hartman stand, which is still our standard. Says, you have to prove prices will go up both products for free. You're screwed. Right? There's nothing to review because you're not gonNA prove prove that free products are gonNA get more expensive. I think it's pretty unfair if you change the standard and you go back in time and say you missed that standard. So I think there has to be something else there. Well, what was the standard by which at and T. was broken up? Right? Like presumably at and T. didn't used to be that big, and then it just got really big and then they broke it up at least. That's the thumbnail understanding I have of that break-up. Well, yeah. But then reformed itself. Right. But because of lax antitrust regulation, right? Like it wasn't a naturally occurring phenomenon that all those APPS got back to the other or was that just sort of like inattention to capitalism It's like in the seventies and eighties. This is Tim moves book the cursive bigness in the seventies and eighties Robert Bork I can't talk about Robert on this podcast. Are we doing this right now. Robert was very influential judge Appellate Judge Federal Appellate? Judge. And basically moved the antitrust law to the consumer harm standard as part of a movement called and economics. A whole thing Robert. Bork. Mostly famous because he was not appointed. He was nominated Supreme Court by Reagan but they leaked video tape rental history, and then he didn't get nominated and that is where the expression getting bork's comes from. This is all true Netflix's still has to abide by videotape data privacy act is a whole. This is all true when facebook and Netflix had some partners, Nansen? Partnership. To. Automatically share your net flicks, watch history to facebook. They're like pending the change of this law which we are working on Robert Bork. He haunts us all. I'm sorry, I can't believe this much. Yeah I. think that's just like the law changed in the in the seventies and eighties, the standard change. The conversation right now is a very much about changing it back months and months ago, pre pandemic, we had an economist from I. Think it was Nyu Thomas Philippon came on the show, and he was like look you have this natural ab test going on in the world where the European Union when it formed was like, how do we get an economy like America's? So, we'll just take their competition policies pretty good, and at the same time we changed consumer harm standard. So everything you're seeing the EU is basically our old competition antitrust standard in. You can see how active they are in everything. Here's a new consumer welfare standard. Whether you believe, this is actually a functional Ab test given. The state of both governments is up for debate, but that was his point I thought. It was spare can say.
The Power of No
"Sirens were beautiful creatures from Greek mythology who lured sailors to their death the power of their songs so irresistible it 'cause captains to steer their boats into the rocks and drown. We're all seduced daily by ideas that sound great at first but may leave us shipwrecked unless we have the power to say. No investor Mark's sister recently warned about the perils of shiny new objects. Everything you say yes to is incrementally one more thing to support and you die a death by a thousand cuts. He says quote. I strongly believe that your success will be more defined by what you choose not to do than by what you choose to do. Of course what you choose to do has to be meaningful timely valuable prescient and high quality and quo. Why we say yes when we mean no Michael. Hi it says. There are three common responses to people who ask us to do things. We don't want to do number one accommodation. We say yes when we want to say no. This usually comes when we value the relationship of the person making the request above the importance of our own interests number to attack. We say no poorly does is a result of valuing our own interests above the importance of the relationship. Sometimes we are fearful or resentful of the request and overreact to the person asking her three avoidance. We say nothing at all because we are afraid of offending the other party. We say nothing hoping the problem will go away. It rarely does personally. I've always felt that being asked to do. Something was a measure of your fitness and status but some people will ask anybody when they need something because they know. There's no loss and being told no tim. Colony of the foolish adventure recently wrote about how self-doubt prompted him to say. Yes too often. I let those fears manifest into taking on too many projects so I can't do them to their fullest says calmly quote a little here me there and quote and as a result calmly says he finds himself in the fifteen percent of businesses. That are doing okay. Not Great better than the eighty percent of businesses that are failing he says but far from the five percent that are crushing it and where he has been in the past saying no is saying yes to freedom having the confidence in foresight to say no makes you stand out when you have clear. Goals is easier to say no. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as a things I have done. Steve Jobs said at the nineteen ninety seven worldwide developers conference quote innovation is saying no to one thousand things and quote. There are lots of good ideas out there. None better than your own well executed plans. We often say yes instead of no when we doubt ourselves and our intentions when we say no to requests we freer selves to work on the things we value. Now what other people think is important. And that's the power of no no as powerful because it's rare near a all wrote about how scarcity can boost desire. We want what we have. Psychologists call this the scarcity heuristic when we are rebuffed. We want will. We can't have even more. They'll always be great new opportunities. The better you are what you do. The more people will want you. The more you say no the more you reinforce your value but say no can sometimes mean not right now is a grand founder. Kevin System turned on a personal offer. From Mark Zuckerberg to be one of facebook's earliest employees does move could have cost him hundreds of millions of dollars. Assist trump believed in his own vision and staying in school was the right. Movers future as luck would have it. He was right and facebook later. Bought his company for more than enough money to put any regrets to rest. People want to be liked. We don't want to offend rather than say no we'd rather string people along and hope they get the message some day but nothing is more clear than stating our intention. It shows respect self worth and conviction no is about you and no one else. The more clear our goals become the easier more powerful each no becomes saying no taste practice and it may backfire but to me is the ultimate side There are one thousand things will need to say no to in your life.
reCAPTCHA and Duolingo: Luis von Ahn
"Think about the small moments or decisions in your life that actually had a huge impact on how your life turned out. Maybe it was a conversation. You struck up with the person next to you on an airplane. Maybe it was a party. You reluctantly went to only to meet the person you'd eventually marry or maybe it was a decision to stay on vacation an extra day that sparked a new idea for Kevin System. It was a random remark from his girlfriend that made him decide to use filters on instagram for Blake. Majkowski was a chance meeting with a group of young Argentinian who took him to the countryside where he saw kids with no shoes. That one day inspired him to create. Tom's and for Louis Fun on it was a free lecture at Carnegie Mellon University in two thousand. We'll get deeper into the story in a few minutes but that single lecture would lead him to invent to ingenious new tools the I was capture. Yes captures those annoying twisted and blurred letters. You have to type into a website to prove your human and the second one was duo lingo now. The biggest language learning APP in the world which is now getting even more popular because people are looking for new things to do now that they're stuck at home but was captured and duo. Lingo were designed to harness the power of crowdsourcing to solve problems. And I'M GONNA blow your mind here if you have ever typed in a capture or reused dueling go. There's a good chance you've taken part in a massive online collaboration that you probably weren't even aware of and it's amazing. How Louis came up with all this but let's start at the beginning. Lewis was born in Guatemala in late. Nineteen Seventy S. Both as parents were doctors and though he was surrounded by poverty violence in Guatemala City. Louis screw up in comparative privilege and as a kid. He spent a lot of time hanging out at the family business. My Mother's family actually had a candy. Factory everybody is always a Mesa. The fact that I grew up with a candy factory they think it was like Willy. Wonka or something. I was not all that much into the candidate. Self I was into the machines because basically the candies made by these gigantic machines. That bump out I don't know how many thousands of pieces of candy per hour and basically all my weekends. I spent playing at the Candy Factory and I would They the machines apart and put them back together they would be some extra pieces after. I put him back together on that. That would be a problem but what? What kind of student were you were? You were school pretty easy for you. Yeah I was pretty nerdy basically. That was really good at math. Math was just easy to me. I what I would do during the summers is basically get either next year or you know. Couple YEARS LATER. Math books on all the sizes. Wow it kind of came easy but the way I really got good ideas by doing hundreds and hundreds exercises. That's what you do in. The summertime was bored. I mean I was an only child I is. I didn't have that much to do. This is remember this is also pre Internet pre everything. So what was I going to do? Man That's what I did was putting playing cards in the spokes of my bicycle and by jolly ranchers seven. Eleven should math books. So you were. Did you just love math? I mean it sounds like kids. Don't think about their future. They're not like I'm going to study math so I can be in tech one day like unless I've really enjoyed it. I I enjoyed it was it was like a puzzle for me by the way this is not the only thing I did. I mean I I also played a lot of video games Pirated Video Games in my commodore sixty four like floppy disks. Floppy Disk loppy discs. That's right I wanted a Nintendo. When I was eight my mother would not get many intendo. She instead got me computer. Commodore Sixty Four. And I couldn't figure out how to use it but eventually I read like the manual stuff and I figured out how to use it more than I figured out. I could buy other people's video games. And so I became a little hub in my in my little neighbourhood but these were not other kids adults or kind of basically young adults who had a computer and they would come to my house and I would take their games and give them my games exchange so then. I collected a pretty large number of video games but sh- mentioned right that I mean because your childhood sounds pretty nice but but like as a kid I guess or even as a teenager there was a civil war in Guatemala right. I mean we know that today. There's a a lot of violence there. Obviously violence in the US and other countries to but Guatemala's has been particularly hard hit. I mean did it feel dangerous when you're a kid yes it did. There was a civil war pretty much since I was born in seventy nine to nineteen ninety-six. There was a civil war going on the whole time. It always felt dangerous when I was fifteen or so. My aunt was kidnapped for ransom. I mean she was gone for seven or eight days. Wow People's cars would be stolen. I don't every couple of months. Somebody's car would be stolen in my family. Going past seven thirty PM was rare games. You needed to go out in a large group. If you're going to go up at seven thirty PM and I did my house had walls and barbed wire yeah. It felt dangerous. I mean this is one of just one of the reasons I came to the US. Actually I mean I was. After my aunt was kidnapped I thought to myself. I don't WanNa live here. Yeah and I guess you did end up leaving Guatemala for college because you went to Duke in North Carolina and you describe yourself as a like a math nerd in school and and is that what you intended to do like to do something in math. That's what I wanted to become an economic math professor. I was pretty certain. I wanted to become a math professor at the time. I thought the best thing that I can do is really learn a lot of math and I really it and I thought it was futile to learn how to deal with other people. It is interesting because my job. These days is one hundred percent just dealing with other people's problems. I'm just trying to understand the so so by becoming math professor. You thought. Hey I wouldn't have to deal with people I would just deal with facts. Data and numbers. Yes yes and you know I. I'll do math research all day long. And every now and then after class of but whatever that's like a tax That's that's what I thought so all right so you are She gets your degree and you this path to go into academia and you go into a PhD program at Carnegie Mellon Correct and I guess you go into computer science right yes. I changed from math computer science because I visited a math Grad school and what people were saying the professor was saying. Oh I'm working on this open problem that nobody's been able to solve for the last three hundred years and I thought I don't think I'm smart enough if you haven't done it and nobody's done it in three hundred years that's Kinda not for me whereas when you visit in computer science I mean this is crazy thing before like. Oh Yeah I still have an open program yesterday. Well it's a much younger field yet so that I thought that was much more exciting for me. At
"kevin system" Discussed on Pro Rata
"I sporadically where we get smarter on the collision of Tech Business Politics. I've never MAC today. Show the small business. Loan Pool gets refilled and facebook. Buys big into India. I tech tracks the corona virus so late last Friday night two of the biggest names in Silicon Valley Instagram co-founders Kevin System in my crater launched their first new project since leaving facebook in two thousand eighteen. It's called. Rt Live and is designed to help fight. The Corona virus pandemic by tracking the rate of viral spread state by state in short it basically gives each score updated regularly based on information coming from local health officials. And when you look at this thing the score to keep in mind is the number one. If you're below one that basically means the curve is flattened and the rate of spread is decelerating. If you're above one it's the opposite. It's bad the spread is accelerating now context on Wednesday afternoon when we tape this. The state with the highest score and that is not a good thing is Nebraska at two point zero while the lowest was Idaho at zero point. One nine overall thirty states are currently below one now why it matters is that state. Local governments are currently trying to figure out when where and how to reopen parts of society. Instagram'S CO founders. Believed this project could become an important tool to help them. And overall this reflects how lots of technologists are working on new data projects. That not only could be used in this pandemic but whatever might befall us in the future. We'll go deeper with instagram. Cofounder Kevin System so Kevin. Let's go to the Genesis of Artie. Live. What was it that you thought was lacking that you want and Mike Wanda kind of try to help rectify well. I think there are two things. The first is that I didn't feel like there was any good sense of how things were going. Everyone spent all of their time. Forecasting the future. And you look at these models and you'd say okay this model says we're going to be at this many million cases this one says you know this many thousand cases and you start to say okay like. I don't care about two weeks from now as much as I care about right now and how things are going so I turned to physically the science of now casting the idea that you could take a look at the data and infer how things are going right now. That felt to me. I think more stable trying predict like a month from now so the second part was looking around for some kind of metric to encapsulated. The idea of how things are going and I came across the paper. You know in the scientific literature that basically says. Hey here's how you calculate single metric that SPLAINE's how quickly the viruses growing and to me. That felt like the right combination of metric. Describe how things are going now scientifically and also in a very simple way that described like how we should feel about how things are going. So all of those things together led me to looking at this metric called rt and then of course the most important point is that. I don't WanNa keep that information to myself. I WANNA share it with so we put up as the site when you talk about the kind of now and trying to understand where we are at now. How do you deal with the lag that there seems to be on some of this data not on the mortality side? Because obviously there's a lag on that vis-a-vis infections but even on the infection side. Even if you assume that once somebody gets the virus they tested different states seem to be reporting in different ways totally so one disclaimer. An it's listed on the bottom of our to live site is that we're not accounting for delays in the data currently however a new model. That you go up either today or tomorrow. Depending on how quickly I move on it. Effectively takes into account the delay between when you have an onset of symptoms and you get a positive test so it effectively moves this metric back in time a little bit. Here's the truth of metrics. In general one is that all that it is noisy. That doesn't mean that it's useless. It just means that it's noisy and too most of these metrics are delayed by four or five days at the minimum but up to ten or fifteen days at the maximum. Everything we're looking at. It's as if you're driving a car but what you're seeing was fifteen seconds ago. Imagine how hard it would be to drive. That's why we need self driving cars so I don't need to worry about that because that's terrifying. Kevin you guys want to think several days ago in some of the coverage of it has highlighted for example this discrepancy and transmission rates between New York and Georgia. At one point. When you look at that is your takeaway from that. That New York's kind of aggressive stay at home. Policies had a positive impact and slowing the spread and the Georgia's rushed reopen kaput. More People's health at risk or should we not extrapolate from those sorts of things from the data. So I think it's tough to know exactly what we can take from this because we don't have the benefit of many months of analysis after the fact so we're looking at everything in the moment the fog of war right. I think the one conclusion that you listed that these lockdowns helped is absolutely true regardless of where you look and there's some evidence that if you haven't locked down there are a handful of states haven't locked down you end up with the highest version of this metric which means the virus is spreading. The most quickly now is that a conclusive conclusion is a hard and fast inclusion. Not necessarily at the same time you know if I were running one of these states and I saw these metrics and the clear discrepancy between those who have locked down and those who haven't I would take that as a strong message that it's likely best to lock down if human health and wellbeing is the priority because of course we have competing goals economic prosperity and there's health and human safety and and it's the balance of those two that. I think you're finding these. Governors dealing with policies are often at the state level or sometimes at the local level. Depending on what we're talking about you guys have done. Rt Live at the state level. So you know California. Your numbers are based on the boundaries. Were drawn hundreds of years ago and true. For New York and Rhode Island and everywhere else. Why the decision to do it at the state level instead of more localized may county level or even a metropolitan area level. Well I'm GonNa answer this in a round about way by saying that you can do it at any hierarchical level you want so you could do it at the global level you can then do it at the continental level than the country level right and you can keep going down and until you curse into these smaller you're right arbitrary boundaries. The point that I've made from the beginning that it's relatively useless to look at the infection at a global or national level if the country is big enough because what you have. Are these hyper localized infections. That are on very very different. S. curves meaning. They started that a different time. They have different infection rates. So you can't manage the country you have to manage localities. What we decided was a balance of getting to that granularity but also having enough data if you go down to say the town rebel. And you're looking at a rural town in Indiana. You just don't have enough data to infer what the are actually is in that town. And that's at an extreme. But the honest answer is that it's the right balance between granularity and data quality but the plan is absolutely to get to a place where not only do we cover other countries? But we break those countries down into smaller pieces whether it's regions or municipalities and in the United States. I think we're starting to have enough data that at least at a metro level. We can start to look as well so you could see the difference between say like you know Los Angeles and San Francisco. I think that's around the corner. Just WanNa make sure that in the first week of having the small live it's solid there's other individual's like yourselves or some other tech companies which are doing not the exact same thing but are playing around with the same sorts of data in terms of transmission spread from a geographic perspective including your form facebook. Where used to work. Have you guys talked with other companies or other technologists about possibly and? I don't even know how this would work. Maybe it's not a back end thing but kind of merging some of what you guys are all doing to create really more of a dashboard arguably well. I'll say there's one thing to combine knowledge know how and I think. There's another to combine process and another to combine consumption. No I think actually having some independence makes a lot of sense here because one knowledge source whether it's not lie ever the Johns Hopkins. Website doesn't have a conclusive answer for you you as an individual have to take all of these data points in and kind of triangulate and we try to at least on. Rt Live. Show what we know what we don't know in the caveats around it so if your goal is to understand how things are going you need to take you know. Artsy lives data point in. You have to take another data point in from your favorite website. Right that that Maybe did some analysis. The goal here is to allow you to have an an additional data point. But I think what I'll say including on this thought is that the diversity in approaches actually helps I've been. I think like the number one value of doing are to live was not actually any of the graphs or the algorithms but rather to push for the narrative that we should be looking for a metric with which we can manage this virus. And if you watch CUOMO's press interviews or Angela Merkel or even the president talking about you know infection rates and the types of metrics. We're GONNA use to either decide to open up states or not leave at least started a narrative around trying to find a metric so the real value here might be rhetorical more than actually. Vitz Kevin Final question for you and just broadening things out a bit. There's been a lot of folks like you who've been working on data projects. There's obviously been a lot of philanthropy. That's come out of Silicon Valley and other tech centers in the US overall. How do you think the tech community at large has responded to the Corona virus outbreak? Two can you give yourselves generically speaking a grade? Well I think give it different lenses right so philanthropic Louis. You see people giving a ton of money away. I mean look what Jack Dorsey did by. Giving a billion dollars is not worth foundation. Basically to focus on this problem. I think it's people other than that. You look at the use of platforms. I mean whether it's instagram putting up banners to talk about whether it's testing sites were or you know to give you information about the virus. That's commendable as well so using platforms to scale information. I think is really good. And then the use of data the use of connections. I mean you look at what. Mark Benepe has done to fly in from overseas in New York and San Francisco. I think that people are doing all they can. And a lot of the people I know including myself dropped any sense of you know working on a company or trying to make a profit rather using what we know to apply. You know help in some way to virus. Were working on what we know. Were applying it to help people. I think that's true in general if you look around it most of the folks in Silicon Valley. So I'm not gonNA stop giving a great because I feel like no students should give themselves a grade. I'd rather receive grade. I think history will judge this moments in Silicon Valley as one. Re people really focused on trying to help in general Kevin System in his house in San Francisco. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks my final two right after this. There's more news out there than ever before but these days it's harder than ever to find it and to know what to trust axios. Am takes the effort out of getting smart by synthesizing. The ten stories that will drive the day and telling you I they matter subscribe at sign up dot axios Dot Com and now back to the podcast. Now it's for my final two and First Deputy Small Business Loan Program or which looks like it's going to be refreshed with around three hundred and twenty two billion dollars. What's also new is growing criticism. How certain larger companies have gotten these loans with Treasury Secretary Mnuchin and president trump? Yesterday saying there would be unspecified consequences. If such money's aren't returned now to be clear if there was fraud go after the fraudsters but in general this program wasn't written to only apply to companies on the brink of insolvency. It was written to support continued employment at any company with fewer than five hundred workers. So long it's been economically harmed by the pandemic. If mnuchin.
Instagram founders launch COVID-19 spread tracker Rt.live
"Instagram founders Kevin System and Mike. Krieger launched rt dot live. This is a US based Cova one thousand nine infection tracking website. The site uses data from the Cova tracking project calculate the effective reproductive rate of covert nineteen or the Rt. That's an estimation of how many secondary infections retransmissions are likely to develop because of a single infection in a specific area. It's really important to get your RT below one. Germany got it's below one and now they're starting to slowly open some things up. The site shows state by state. Rt calculations and can be filtered by region. Preventative measure taken or population.
How Your Smartphone Has Evolved Over the Past Decade
"With you when you wake up it puts you to sleep. It's your constant companion and you're probably using it right now to listen to two US. We're obviously talking about your smartphone. But let's do a little time travel and go back to the year twenty ten the beginning of the decade. You wanted to find your way around. You didn't pull at your phone. You pulled out a GPS. If you wanted to take a picture you pull out your camera you wanted to take a ride. You recall the cab and if you wanted to watch net flicks. You opened up your mailbox. Because that's where your DVD was waiting for you after a few days. smartphones owns weren't new. But you might not have had an iphone. You might have had a blackberry or a crack Berry as they were called back then because they were super super addictive. We want to go back in time. I and talk about all the things that have happened with our smartphones and our technologies sense twenty ten and who better to do that with than our personal tech columnist to Anna Stern. Joanna thanks for joining us. I'm here I'm here to take you all back. You recently did this. You time traveled yes and it turns out time. Traveling coming and going to hell are very similar. It's true I did go to hell with the upper case H and a lower case age because I decided I wanted to. You challenge myself to really think back to the beginning of the decade and I was asked to write this piece for our decade in review section about the smartphone and the impact. It's made on really humanity eighteen that that's where I sort of led and I really said I need to live with this tech. Had in two thousand ten to really remember what it was like before we had fully a functioning modern smartphones and I asked my producer said where should we go. I need to like leave home with this. I need to leave my iphone at home. I need to go someplace. Where should we go? Oh and after much brainstorming. He said to me I want you to go to hell because I think that it's going to be like hell. And there's a small town. It's actually township in Michigan Sixty Miles House at Detroit. We're going to go there and you're going to spend the day doing a bunch of challenges that I'm going to create for you with just your twenty ten tech. The result was a a lot of frustration. But also a lot of excitement and these memories of what we used to do mostly with our brains before we had smartphones. One of the things that that I thought was so interesting about your trip was that you're using a blackberry. which like I said was the crack Berry and blackberries were really common in two thousand ten at least journalist list it was really at least for journalists and even the market share you look back at the numbers of two thousand ten and like I said it was not new right? The IPHONE was created in two thousand ten but if you look back at the market share for in two thousand ten and what we saw in terms of smartphones apple was just starting to come up and droid was just starting to come up but blackberry and Symbian which was mostly on Nokia phones or those. Those were the still the main players in the smartphone race and of course now we have two players and that was really the story of the decade right. Is everyone trying to compete to be in your pocket to be on this small screen which ultimately became this giant screen and apple and Google one out there but it was not clear at the beginning of the decade. What was going to happen and so I was addicted to my blackberry? Like you mentioned I was twenty ten. I had a blackberry still. I had the blackberry curve. Ninety seven hundred that I used in this piece and it was only in the beginning. Getting of twenty eleven. Did I get rid of it and get an android phone. What changed what happened? That blackberry is now almost obsolete. I think he's trying no they. They are obsolete rim as a company which made those blackberries is basically obsolete when you look do not manufacturer smartphones anymore. In fact I was one of the ideas I had here was to go back to ram but both the the former. CEO's declined to be part of this piece. What really happened? Was this foresight from both apple and Google about what the smartphone would become and that really really was this Swiss army knife of things when you look back in two thousand ten. We were not using our phones for most part yet. GPS is we were not using them as our primary cameras. We're we're not even using them really with many apps yet. Twenty ten was the arrival of so many big APPS instagram net flicks Uber. All of these really arrived around that time and it was really a synergy of a couple of things. The first being the hardware the hardware was getting better and better. The phones were getting faster. The second thing where the networks three G and four G pushed pushed ahead in big ways into apps in the early part of the decade and then that third part was the APPs it was these companies these developers throwing ideas against the wall. Aw investors saying that seems like something that might be pretty good and then creating messy ecosystem and one of the best stories. I think that's in the story and I talked with at length for this. Says Ralph de la Vega he was the CEO of at and T. at the beginning of the decade and he really worked closely with Steve Jobs to bring the first iphone out and he was saying we didn't know all of these things. We're going to happen at the the same time but when these three things really did happen at the same time that's when we really knew it was gonna be big. And he told me the story about how Travis Kalanick's who is the founder of Uber are came to. At and T.. And said I need iphones with four g service so I can give these phones to my drivers and it was that combination right of a great big idea for an APP APP putting these phones into cars. The four G. Network behind it and the iphone that let that all takeoff initially the APPS that were created for the iphone were internal apple was creating its APPS. How much did opening up that for? Third Party developers changed the game. That changed is the game in a big way and again that happened right before. Two Thousand Ten apple had released the APP store but it was really around two thousand ten when you started to see these big players taking the advantage of the hardware and like I mentioned those networks. You'd instagram coming along in twenty ten. Seeing that the phone camera was going to be a really big thing we were still in pretty pretty crappy camera lands right. We all remember filters the reason Kevin System who spoke to for this story he reminded me about filters the reason we had those filters is the famous story that his wife he went to go take a photo. He told her about all this APP that he's building she's like I'm not going to share these photos. They look like crap and he added filters because they looked like crap. Kevin said in the in the interview interview when I was talking with him. He talks a lot about how now you don't need filters because these cameras got crazy. Good over the last decade look at net flicks. netflix became an APP for the iphone in two thousand and ten again. When these phones were getting faster they were getting faster WIFI connectivity? They were getting faster processors. They were getting faster. Four G networks within a couple of years to allow us to stream video everywhere everywhere. So it's really the fact that these APPs were being built in concert with all of these other technologies that were coming along one of the things that you talk about new show very very clearly in your story going to hell is not just what things are out there right but how those things how that phone how. Those APPs have changed. Change the way that we live in the world that we navigate the world. How how is this technology in the last ten years changed us? Yeah it's an editor said to me. Owners right she's like I think you should write about how this changed humanity and it was like well. You know that sounds so heavy and I don't know if I WANNA go there and make this something that people remember and understand than as I started pointing was like wait. These are the things that people remember it understand. They just don't think about it that often so those of us that can remember the days before we used this device to tell us what right right and left turn to make all the time we navigated the world by looking at a map or asking people for directions. We had like some sense of where we were in the world because we figured it out that for me was the most striking thing you know. I was definitely super frustrated that it took me basically an hour and a half longer to get someplace without my smartphone but I was also really happy and excited excited that my brain still worked to do those things like. Oh I can call that person and they can tell me how to get there. I can write down directions. I in the problem problem solved still then. Of course there's so many positives to the fact that we don't have to do these things anymore but we also have to remember that the conveniences come at the cost of so so many things right. The big thing to me was sharing photos that experience. I there's often mornings when I'm walking my dog and I look up and I'm like Oh that's a beautiful thing I need. Take a photo of it and put it on instagram. I hate that my brain does that but that is where my brain goes and I don't I don't even consider myself like an over share share like three times a week. I'm not someone it's like four times a day and that's our urge is when we see something we want to share it now and it's not even only instagram. I have a family Exchan- or I want to share it with my best friend or my wife. Hey from editor and I'm just constantly like we saw this thing where I went to this place. Like you wouldn't believe what I'm seeing right. Now and instagram really sparked that obviously other messaging services sparked that too. But when you don't have that capability you are really much more in the moment and you are thinking. Wow I'm looking at this thing and I'm GonNa take a photo of it and I'm GONNA be able to look back at had it later but I'm not going to distract myself right now to share it in two steps and move on from it right.
Live From The HIBT Summit: Kevin Systrom & Mike Krieger Of Instagram
"It's guy here so today we're releasing another live interview from this year's how I built this summit which happened this past Stober in San Francisco and this one's my conversation with Kevin System and Mike Krieger. The CO founders of instagram. And if you haven't heard their original podcast episode you should definitely go back and give it a listen in that episode. They talk about the stumbled on the idea of using filters for photo sharing and how in just two years. There's they got nearly thirty million dollars and then sold to facebook for a billion dollars. They spent six more years there and then both of them stepped down twenty eighteen and so when we sat down together at the summit peers the question I was thinking of after you launch one of the most successful APPs in the world. What do you do next first? Let's talk about the last year. It's been about a year since you left as it been a little bit weird because you had a staff in this team and his company when you were coming into work every day and then. There's a day where you don't do that. Yeah I think the first readjustment is all of a sudden like you do have a weight off your shoulders because the site is in down. There isn't a decision to be made every single second and you're able to sort of step back and reflect but what you touched on is really true as well which is one you missed the people you work with right like. That's the thing that is really notable as well but also your leverage is totally gone so if we have an idea now or we want to get something done like go and do and by ourselves which is also an exciting like hands on kind of moment as well. But that's I think the most notable sort of Oh okay now we're now in different place. Now Yeah I think if you look at the companies that have been around now for a while in Silicon Valley you run it and and there are people running it and you look around and like there's the system on that supports everything. It just goes every day. You've got your your monthly check INS. You've got your weekly staff meetings and you just know what your schedule is going to be. And everything has this enormous momentum or a nurse. I don't know which one is. which but you know what I mean Scott and and then you get out of it and you realize that life no longer has that inertia or that momentum will look this up later and but would you would you realize oh my God I have to be a beginner again? And that's thrilling. It can be scary depending on like your personality type it can be either either terrifying or it can be thrilling. And I decided I was going to learn to fly. That was going to be my thing when I left work I just I wanted to take a a few months which it turns out is not enough time to learn to fly. I did it though we can get into that so I took a few months and I said I wanted to learn to fly and I was so frustrated by the fact that I like sucked like I just sucked. It's like an work. I knew exactly what I needed to do. And I I mean it's not that I was great at it all all the time but like I knew what to do but when you do something new for the first time you're like wait. I have to like read a book and I have to go through all this and it's it's it was thrilling to know that life is going to be full of a lot of these chapters. If we do it right there's GonNa be a beginner over and over and over again and what's great is if you're a beginner and you have a partner while you're a beginner because then when you make a mistake someone can pick you up from. NBC Like Yeah. That was a mistake. But let's keep going. You know I remember you. Telling among the sort of the origin story of instagram started his bourbon as a check in APP. And then I think an in your girlfriend then wife was. You know you're on vacation occasion. And he took the photo and then this sort of light bulb moment where you guys that. Well maybe this is the thing it should be and you built it into this huge platform and and and your identities are so wrapped into it. Right we've had stories of the show where founders have sold their companies or David. David Neal was pushed out of jet blue. He was here earlier today. it's hard. I mean even if you're paid well and you get the payout. It's it's a thing. Thank you mate. It's yours is a part of it part of that hard. I thought about this a ton and like say like the year before our departure. Sure you start thinking about. I tell the very openly like every year you know I would sit down on like sort of recommit to instagram and so am I still. Learning is still exciting. I still feel like I can have impact Or is it time for the next chapter and the question. I would often get from friends that would be like. Aren't you worried like you're not going to be important after instagram. Like in so many awards but basically asking that question and you realize a couple of things one is the legacy lives on and like the fact that I get to use the product and people still come up to me and are like oh you built. This Is Awesome and I realized I had gotten attached to being co founder and CTO and always get to be co founder and that feels really good starting conversations and having people be excited about something that we he built. So I think that the identity feels solid and the other part. is you kind of realize like who's excited to spend time with you for what you've built in what you're interested in and the people who who just wanted to get verified or whatever they're like never had last fees disappointed. Judging from my answer. I'm direct box. People have not gotten the message that we've left but you know it's a transition moment was actually like a you're jumping off the cliff's edge and you're trusting that like there's something on the other side that will I feel really good but I was also kind of scared like wake you up and everyone's like. Oh yeah you're like you're not important anymore. He's out there Kevin. You're quota at the time last year you said you you don't leave a job because everything is awesome right. And I'm I'm curious. Why why did you leave? Because you know you don't leave everything's awesome. Sorry I'm just I'm reflecting on that line okay. So a couple a couple of things one is we sold the company in two thousand twelve. Yep and everyone thought that we were done like I remember seeing people on the street and they were like what are you up to now. I was like running instagram. They're like why you sold the company. I was like. Yeah but like we really love it. Here's what most people don't realize. Once you sell a company Anthony like if you still love it you still want to run it so it was six years of grinding to get this thing off the ground you know we sold and was how many million users may thirty or forty million users and we got it to you over a billion yeah. It took lots of time and that is like so. I was just in Hawaii the other day. I guess what you do when you don't have a job but I'm I'm standing there on the side of the road. It was on the Big Island and I'm watching. The ironman happened and these throngs of people are coming by on their bikes in their wet suits and everything and their speedy bikes and they have to bike. I don't even know how many miles I think it's like over one hundred miles. Then they have to do a marathon and then they have to do a swim or I guess it's swim bike. Run so you have to order wrong. But Ah that's what instagram's like but in business and you get to the end of the proverbial and and you say to yourself. Wow we've been through a lot but do I want to go more. No like I'm done. I just did a marathon and I just did one hundred whatever miles. That's why I think we ended up leaving because you want a little break in recovery time and then my south is such that. I'm excited about doing something new. Like I'm just like I'm always on into some new idea and I don't know probably won't be as big as instagram. But it'll be just as exciting to me and that's why you end up leaving. Not just because of the bad that stuff but because it's really hard and you need this regeneration time to do something. There was a really interesting quote in wired about the two of you. Basically said social media properties can be like nightclubs there cool while the cool people are there and they disappear without leaving a trace. Kevin and Mike are Smart enough and cool enough to know. You should never be the last person to leave the party now. Essentially with this article was saying that you sort of saw saw the social media landscape and maybe you thought you know. This isn't really what we signed up for. Is there any truth to that. That was not a big factor for me like I think in fact like it was weighing on me in the opposite direction like I remember when like early last year are so before we really thinking seriously about leaving. I sat down with some folks. And they're like I hope you stay for a long time because I can tell you really care about kindness really care about building a positive network and we really need that so please stay. Which added this whole guilt factor for me for the next like a few months? We started thinking about leaving so I saw it less like you know the tightest changing changing. Therefore it's time for us to leave and in fact it was like the other side like oh like maybe not to sound conceited but maybe this is one we could be most needed. That was definitely a the fact that I weighed when thinking about the
"kevin system" Discussed on Business Wars
"I usually might instead they sit quietly there's a chill in the air facebook is in turmoil in our last episode snapchat stock price went into a tailspin as the company lost users and was mercilessly copied by facebook but facebook got its own crisis brewing on July twenty fifth twenty eighteen facebook announces his quarterly results they're not good facebook missed its revenue targets and growth is slowing the platform has reached two point who billion monthly users now user acquisition over last quarter has only edged up a little over one percent it marks the company's slowest ever the growth the seemingly unending negative press has taken a toll now Zuckerberg must explain his recovery plan to investors he hops on a call with analysts we're getting rid of the financial incentives for sandwich decreed fake news much of which is economically motivated stop pages that repeatedly spread false information from buying ads and we also use IDA prevents fake accounts to generate a lot of the problematic content from ever being created in the I was in other words we're handling the fake news problem but he needs to go further to assuage their fears looking ahead We will continue to Invest Heavily Insecurity and privacy things we ever responsibility to keep people say but I've sat on House call we're investing so much insecurity that it will significantly impact our profitability. We're starting to see that this quarter at least that's what Zuckerberg is telling the public but privately he still believes data is key to his business and he has not given up on mining it in September two thousand eighteen the instagram office on facebook's Menlo Park campus Zuckerberg sits down in a glass walled con prince room for a meeting with Instagram co-founders Kevin System and Mike Krieger facebook bought instagram in twenty twelve and system and Krieger continued to run it early independently but that's been changing over the last six months tension between Zuckerberg and the Instagram co-founders has been building one of system and Kruger's top honchos was pulled over to work on facebook and facebook appoint a new head of product at Instagram Adam massery facebook veteran Louis Zuckerberg system and Krieger built instagram on their own but Zuckerberg wants tighter control and he's about to demand even more he tries to sweeten them up before making his pitch he knows it'll be a hard sell I'm really happy with how instagram's doing thank you we've now got more than four hundred million users on instagram stories that's more than facebook stories that's a tacit acknowledgement that Zuckerberg was right to copy snapchat Zuckerberg pauses and looks at each of them intently. There's something else i WanNa talk with you about oh how important data is to facebook the more data we have the better targeted we can make our ads in the more we can charge advertisers sister been Krieger look at each other they don't like where this is going right I'm on Instagram to share the location data of instagram users with facebook that way we'll be able to target them even better with ads it's exactly what they feared I'm sorry mark but I don't think we can do that. we're very sensitive about protecting our users data Zuckerberg doesn't want to hear it I understand that but this is not negotiable we need location data to target our ads and ads are the core of our business for system and Krieger this is the last straw we do not want to share data period given everything that's happened with Cambridge Analytica I can't believe you'd even ask US Zuckerberg stares them down to instagram's co-founders this seems like an insane demand one that risks the very integrity of their company but Zuckerberg won't take no for an answer this wasn't a request he wasn't order we're doing this with four without you system in Krieger look at each other they stand up and shake Zuckerberg's hand barely holding I contact will be in touch everyone watches as they leave the room the next day Zuckerberg gets a message it system in Krieger they're resigning Zuckerberg is going to get his way even if it means forcing out anyone who stands in his path and that includes company founder yeah and there's more bad news Zuckerberg opens another message it's from the head of Security Zach we found something some facebook accounts were compromised compromised how hackers were able to take over users account how many if eighty million the blood drains from Zuckerberg's face this news could not have come at a worse time facebook has been back attard on every side for its data breaches and now this how do they get in they exploited to bugs in the USB you're the view as Vija lets users check what bits of information other people can see about them ironically it was introduced to give users more control facebook's engineers get to work fixing the bugs politicians are already calling for facebook to be regulated so rather than try to hide the problem as he had have in the past Zuckerberg decides to involve the feds early to fend off the criticism he knows is coming he called Sheryl Sandberg and tells her get in touch with the FBI and Cheryl we're going to need to tell the press okay we need to get out in front of this Oh on September twenty eighth facebook summons reporters for a call Zuckerberg takes a deep breath and lays.
"kevin system" Discussed on Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
"All the dating properties they have is probably like a real at least they have to show like different bottle throwing out. It just happened just in the u._s. And it's connected to instagram as well and like look i think the kids so i've been told find find each other through instagram and twitter and that's not do they not now. I have ah in name that is so deeply uncall- to bet on facebook. I don't know i think the the fact that it's tie tucked tuck into instagram as as network actually makes it a little bit all right. Maybe facebook is the the match dot com or the <hes> harmony or the one for like folks who are forty and up and instagram is the one. That's like the tender age then. Maybe that's a better corollary but i think it might actually be a smart way monetize data hollywood really. Would you know what that's actually a great one embarrassed. We didn't bring it up. Facebook and instagram are going after your buddy diller i._c._s. Basically an online dating company and when you think about instagram and facebook could be huge in this. This is a big category. One out of five marriages start online. It's <hes> it's still something people are willing to pay for their able to segment the marketplace with different different initiatives could be on something. This zone was so great. Their phone was so so good everything they do. That's not necessarily related to what they basically do. Just steal your information. They suck at so. Actually this is a lot of information so maybe they'll be good at it but but the idea of putting more information on facebook about your sex life is like no thank you right. Maybe it's like maybe the time right now. People are just like oh now. You're going to get into my this is who i sleep with. Whatever that's what i want to share it. I mean that's fair to say that it's complicated on that stupid stuff. I think instagram is really the killer quake. That's that's how the young's finding. What did we think kevin system would think of this. That's you know i mean it's marks company now right yeah. Yeah that's true. He's it's facebook instagram by facebook dot fat mike i i don't i don't i think it's i think you're ruining your brand and for the sake of what putting your facebook stamp on it just don't do it. He's trying to keep away all right fails boys. I'm not going to do this week's. I'm giving mike my mind winning fail slot. What's what's your fails scott. Galloway fail is <hes> again we work <hes> they cut their evaluation in half in order to try and say to the public markets no check check us out where now only gonna cost you twenty to twenty five billion in.
"kevin system" Discussed on Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
"And I think Roger has had that dog him for a while though. I have to say he keeps going like he doesn't stop double double triple. And he's he's involved is thought that's what's interesting about Roger I think it's interesting. I mean, obviously, this rollout was very calculated. And very interesting way. So I'm not clear what the I think is running for office is pretty well. I know he's not he's his husband is husband ran and lost. He tried. Big about it this guy. Try bought what did he by about the Atlantic? And it was a huge feeler. What do you know twenty nine year old wasn't respected by the newsroom Republican excuse me? And you basically got run out of town. Right. Well, yeah. Yeah. Essentially, he just didn't he decided to want to spend as much money as he thought. Maybe was I don't know. It just media is hard. Let's. Manchester. Yeah. So it it was just it was interesting nonetheless, it's getting George attention, especially among the media. It's like, whoa. One of the founders. You know, if people like Kevin system, come out and say Samir, the what's that founders who have said little things or they're you know, Kevin has now. But certainly it's Whereas very clear. happy that someone someone who's I've sold a bunch of companies to big companies. This is passion move along people always talk about the front, and that is that what how bad it is that if you can't kill it. You buy it in the fact that in every industry there's been a greater concentration of market share to the top two or three players. But what they don't focus enough on is the back end. And while I've signed confidentiality agreements, and I can't literally can't speak anything specific let me speak in general generalities. Imagine you're an entrepreneur that has a button company that's going. Well, and it isn't yet a threat to an incumbent maybe nipping at their heels, and they acquire you for a lot of money in the VC's, and the founders do really well, but in exchange for doing really, well, you have to sign a non compete that. Once you Liam you cannot compete with this company for several years. You're not you're not compete. You cannot solicit any of the previous employees. So what does that do to wages? What does that do to wages? If all of a sudden, there's fewer people who can hire people at that company. So what you have is a few people make a lot of money. They're willing to pay. For the company. That's the good news. The bad news is it really caught arises new business formation and also hamstrings wage growth. So everything we're doing everything we're allowing is really one thing. And that is how do we make the fifty year old baby boomer wealthier, or and and it it's really sort of a conspiracy between I think the people who already have land and young entrepreneurs. This is your things your jam is the money being transferred to old people. Well, everyone's adopted my break them up jam. That's no interesting. Okay. So you're having a new one. Got the idea that he has so much unchecked power. And I think that you know, we've talked about that in Chris talked about that. And he goes Mark is still the same person. I washed how his parents as they left our dorms common room at the beginning of his sophomore year of ourself more year. He's the same person who procrastinate studying for tests fell in love with his future wife while online line in the bathroom and a party or slept on a mattress on a floor and a small apartment years after he could have afforded much more. In other words, he's human that was his attempted. So how closely was also human. But it's also is very humanity. That makes his unchecked power so problematic. We'll look our corrupts. No, individual key component of our society is checks and balances because we recommend since. Yeah. Go ahead. No. I'm just saying he'll also throw them under the bus for obsessed with gross domination Mark use the word domination describe our early embellishes with no hint of irony or humility. Yeah. Now, it was it was it was everywhere there wasn't. There wasn't anything new. But it was a summary of everything. I don't think it real look at the end of the day is a lot of ships..
After Facebook's 15 months of "fresh hell," why is its business still so solid?
"Had fifteen months of quote, fresh hell, but two point one billion still use it or Instagram or what's apple messenger every day from American public media. This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Jack Stewart infamously would. Despite the privacy scandals the federal investigations and the accusations of destroying democracy. This week Facebook reported its advertising revenue and global users are growing and this week's quality assurance we take a deep dive into why in his early years Facebook prioritized growth over everything else. Nearly every crisis Facebook now faces stems from that nNcholas Thompson editor in chief of wired says that's left management navigate a metaphor minefield. There was a lot of unexploded ordinance, but they were inevitably going to step on at some point. He's an author on the magazine's latest cover story, which goes behind the scenes at the troubled company. He says Facebook's business is actually solid for a couple of reasons. Number one, the advertising business model they came up with this one of the greatest ever, and it doesn't require lots of changes. They just built an amazing business model and the. Marginal cost of bringing in new advertisers are very low. Secondly, one of the smartest business decisions. Mark Zuckerberg ever made was to buy Instagram and people don't really understand that Instagram is owned by Facebook. Or if they distrust Facebook, they don't distrust Instagram, so Instagram continues to grow. So they make lots of money off of Corfe Facebook. They have lots of user growth on Instagram, and what's up and the businesses doing great. You would think at some point the maybe advertisers would start to push back. I mean Facebook's reputation has really taken this really huge dense that it appears house. Why do people still want to advertise with it? Well, because the advertising continues to work if at some point people had an icky feeling when they use Facebook, and therefore the ads are less effective than advertisers will leave. But at this moment Facebook allows you to very specifically target specific users in ways that you cannot on other platforms and for lots of advertisers. That's just a deal. That's too good to pass up now face. Is an -ticipant tting. It says up to a five billion dollar fine from the Federal Trade Commission. We heard that from it this week about how it's handled some of these privacy issues will they even feel that is the question. They have so much cash on hand is a big deal now so Facebook put out in their earnings call they said that they anticipate three to five billion dollar fine. I don't know whether that's because those are the numbers the FTC has been talking about with them. Or if as book is just trying to set expectations as negotiating tactic. I would not rule out the possibility that Facebook is hit with a ten billion dollar fine or a twenty billion dollar fine, regardless to your question, even if it is at the higher end whether it's five or ten or twenty it's tiny market cap is up. I believe forty billion dollars as we talk this morning. So it's not a huge hit to them. Obviously. They would rather have five billion dollars and not have five billion dollars. But they will be fine. Regardless of what this number comes out at the thing. They really worry about is antitrust if there's antitrust regulation. And it comes down hard on them. That is a serious problem and that would make the market dropped dramatically. What are the stakes for Facebook's leadership around all of these scandals? The fake news, the offensive content the privacy, you know, you detail that they've got something like the two thousand moderate has now does that mean they're actually taking this seriously as a business risk? Yes. Absolutely. Facebook is taking it very serious business risks. So there to really interesting questions in there. So number one is do they take the seriously as a business risk? Absolutely. Are they committed to trying to counter fake news and all of the manipulation on the platform? Absolutely water the stakes to their business. They're very high scandal continues to multiply there could be real consequences down the road. What are the stakes specifically to top management meeting? Mark Zuckerberg, and Sheryl Sandberg. The two people who we most associate with the company for soccer Berg, he's going to run the company as long as he wants to. He has voting control of the shares. He's appointed his friends as board members key is. In a good position whenever he wants to go and run the chance Berg initiative or just go be a intellectual thought leader or do Bill Gates type things he will go. Choose to do that. For sandberg. It's tougher. And there were moments in the last year where it seemed like she might be sacrificed or where she might be in. Big trouble sucker brook has expressed his loyalty to her. But as the scandal is multiplied, and as they started to touch her in a way, they never had before it seemed as though her position was at risk. And it is also certainly the case that the public reputation of both of them as dropped a year ago. We were talking about each of them as potential presidential candidates. Now, there's not a chance what about the morale in the white accompany in the wake of all of this. Do you get the feeling from the people you've been talking to in your reporting that employees a fairly satisfied that I'm laughing even as I say that or is there a whole lot of internal chaos at this company. There is a lot more employees disatisfaction than there was two years ago. There are lots of employees. We're talk to their who say, oh, this is great. It's cool. You know, the media hates us. But that's not my problem. I'm happy. And they're bunch of other people who say, you know, we deserve a lot of the hatred. We made a lot of mistakes we trampled on people's privacies. And you know, I regret all that. We've done I talked to a lot of people who are thinking about going to work there. And it doesn't have the halo that it did two years ago. They still pay you. Well, the fact that the stock continues to go up as great particularly for people who have options, but it is a less exciting place to work and night as one of the true risks for the company in one of the most adverse effects of the last two years for Facebook did any part in this reporting, particularly given how much time you've spent on Facebook directly. Now did anything really surprising? There was one specific story that stunned me. And I was the circumstances. That led to the departure of the two founders of Instagram, Kevin sister, Krieger and Winfred Vogelstein. And I started reporting the story we made. List of the mysteries. We wanted to solve that was at the very top. They left. It seems strange. They had left all of a sudden in September no-one knew why? And late in the reporting months into reporting, the story, we finally learned the full story, and that is that Cording to people close to them they had grown frustrated zuckerberg's increased meddling. They didn't like the idea that Instagram was going to be further merged with what's app and with Facebook. And there was real tension. Over Instagram's growth, and there's a sense among some people at Facebook that Instagram's growth was coming at the expense of core Facebook, and that led to all kinds of tensions, and then a big fight at the end of July and a moment where Mark Zuckerberg, according to people you observing all of this Mark Zuckerberg asked one of his deputies to drop a list of all the ways that Facebook supported Instagram the way it drove users towards Instagram. And then he gave the list to Kevin system and said, we're getting rid of all these. And according to people familiar with the story system reacted quite badly to that. And then went on paternity leave came back and said, I'm done here. And so the biggest surprise to us was that the departure of system in Krieger which had come out before was much tensor much tenser than I had believed when I began reporting the story
How Humans Can Outsmart AI (w/ Unanimous AI)
"Today. You learned about what aim before the big bang, and we'll give you a five minute hack for beating procrastination. You'll also hear from Dr Louis Rosenberg the of unanimous AI cool tell you how humans can beat artificial intelligence by tapping into the wisdom of swarms. What's satisfy some curiosity? Artificial intelligence is all the rage. But using swarm intelligence might be the best way to solve the world's biggest problems. Dr Louis Rosenberg is the founder and CEO of unanimous AI artificial intelligence company that amplifies human intelligence by building hive minds model after biological swarms. Basically swarm intelligence connects people over the internet using AI algorithms modeled after swarms in nature only takes five minutes this short and sweet life heck comes from Kevin system co founder and former CEO Instagram, here's what he says to do quote, if you don't want to do something make a deal with yourself to do at least five minutes of it. After five minutes, you'll end up doing the whole thing, unquote. That's it just commit yourself to five minutes of whatever it is. You're trying to do kind of make sense. When you think about the saying getting started is the hardest part. That's the whole story. Actually. That's it. No, that's great the five minute hack. So it's tiny literally the shortest ever done on this show. There you go.
"kevin system" Discussed on TechStuff
"On top of these stories was one coming from CNBC about Kevin system. Now system co founded the company Instagram with Mike Krieger in two thousand twelve Facebook acquired Instagram for one billion dollars, a princely sum system stayed on for several years heading up Instagram within Facebook, but in September twenty eighteen system left Facebook. Now, his departure was likely mostly tied to how Facebook has involved itself with Instagram over the last several months, and how it has changed the way Instagram photos show up and Facebook feeds there were a lot of arguments that said that Facebook's approach was watering down the value of Instagram system. Krieger reportedly felt that Facebook was really interfering too much with their work and that the decisions being made were ultimately hurting growth. So a month. After leaving Facebook system would say at a press conference, quote, no one ever leaves a job because everything's awesome in quote, but he didn't go into a lot of detail. More to the point of this episode recently system said that it is important for social media companies to be policed. Well, and that misinformation and harassment is a growing concern. He even referenced deep fakes which I talked about in a very recent episode. But of course, that's just one way someone could misrepresent a person from faked video footage to faked audio footage or recordings I guess I should say to photo shopped images to smear campaigns. There are tons of different ways for people to be pretty darn awful to each other. And to also reach a huge audience to boot because social media platforms have a very broad reach. This goes beyond Facebook. Obviously Facebook is easy to talk about because the platform is so darned huge, but these same tactics work on. Other social media platforms as well. I don't mean to say that Facebook is the only one that is vulnerable to this sort of thing specifically system said at the conference, quote, you start to realize how important it's going to be for the future of the world that we police these things well that we take it very seriously and put real resources against solving the problems now that you're at this scale into quote now to be clear system wasn't necessarily calling for outside regulation, but rather the need for policing the platforms which could come from within. It would not have to be a formal set of laws. His point though was that it is necessary. Whether it's internal or external and that the added expense of monitoring users and responding quickly in the event of someone trying to spread lies or harass others is absolutely critical. US Senator Mark Warner's office published a paper describing a regulatory sq. Scheme for social media platforms after zuckerberg's appearances in front of congress. This proposed policy covered stuff like media literacy programs that are aimed at helping people. So they can determine if the information they are encountering online is legitimate. Or if it's fake it also called for more funding of military and intelligence agencies. So that they can focus on misinformation campaigns from other countries that are aimed to affect domestic politics, essentially, the policy was saying we've gotten pretty good at detecting hacking attempts an infiltration attempts, not not flawless, but we're we're aware of a lot of the tricks people use in order to infiltrate systems what we're not good at is combating these misinformation campaigns, and we need to put money aside to get better about doing that the policy also calls for social media platforms to do more to ensure that the accounts made on those platforms are in fact legitimate and not just run by a but if they are run by a bought. And it's all on the up and up did should be labelled as such. So that users aren't misled into thinking that a bought account represents a real human like person. It also calls for platforms to be held legally liable for failing to take down posts that include stuff like quote, defamation invasion of privacy, false light. And public disclosure of private facts. In quote, also, the companies would be held accountable if they failed to take down fabricated video or audio if a victim had secured unnecessary judgment regarding the sharing of that content. And they also pointed at the European Union's general data protection regulation or GDP are rules? I covered that in an episode earlier this year that would put some pretty extensive privacy protections for internet users. If they were to try and copy that the paper itself wasn't a draft of any sort of legislation..
"kevin system" Discussed on Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
"And everything they every decision they make and they live in these. They live in violent agreement with each other. Like, there's no there's no, you know, you can see it in the lack of diversity. You can see it in the lack of. Like without a lot of voices in the room. You can see it. Now, they say they disagree. But they don't they. Absolutely. There's nobody putting breaks on any of these people because we treat them like boy king's like, I it's it's it's like, you know, it's if my teenagers were running the show, you know, what I mean, by the way, they do third junior. We'll do a better job honestly, kind of thing because they they think about these things. And so I think whether this has repercussions, and we should move onto the next thing. Whether it says repercussions, here's the deal. Young people aren't using this product as much, and that's the issue is that's where we're going to see it is it going to affect advertising is it gonna fact usage and stuff like that. And I think I do think there is a lot of risk with congressional inquiries into this. I think you're I think you're half. Right. I think that red state DA or a kind of a flyer might be small Latin American nation or small northern European nation. Just outright bans face football. Yeah. That's been so strong on this for years. You might see someone like Earl I just say, you know. What we're banning Facebook. Where you just can't have it your could see a country just go gangster on these guys. The in terms of the actual business. I've always maintained that people talk a big game about being angry face moving. Where do they go to express their outrage as Instagram's Graham rain, well, you know, I actually don't see the business the business leading up advertisers. Don't really have any. I don't know when Kevin system, you know, I wrote about him leaving. I thought that was a very bad sign that was. Yeah. But I I don't know nothing. I don't see their business decelerating. That's the weird disagree with you on this. There's there's a dissonance here. But where where where does PM genial lever? Go they'd be if they decided to pull their average. It's like this. We've seen this before with AOL. I'm sorry. I've seen who've been lauded hold on. They've been lauded they'd be lauded for their noble principles. Stan and their stock would go down three to five percent. The next day because everyone wonder how they're gonna drive traffic to tide dot com. These guys have no choice. This is a danger. We'll say monopoly or. This is not in. These are not good Drexel's because the question is if they fire anybody, which they won't lack of accountability. I mean, the very least this lawyer Joel Kaplan in Washington seems quite his misjudgements or quite perplexing to me. The and spent including sitting behind Brad Kavanagh at the hearings, you know, talk about conflict of interest. You know, this is the person who's Facebook's person in Washington, and he can have an opinion about breath. Kevin I just can keep it to himself like in terms of on both sides, by the way, speaking of I can't believe I use that term. But but it's it's just I we'll see we'll see I just I'm going to disagree. I think this is a really bad. I have a couple of questions from a person's not journalist, but a commentator you're the same one of the couples things stood out the article, I is there clearly going after each other. Yes. And that is clearly the board board members when Erskine boss the records can started. It was married angry at look like. And that's he's he's clearly going on background. I'm. Yes. Yes. Information's coming out of the boardroom. Yes. That's kind of the dime. Dropping is going to be the problem. I mean, I'm sure I haven't even looked at my emails today. I'm sure there's twenty dimes dropping into Email. And a couple of political ramifications. I believe until about a month ago. Cheryl Sandberg was probably one of the five or six most likely nominees for the democratic nomination. I no you're wrong. Well, I think she was planning around for and then and then and that's done now. And the other thing is I think Charles Schumer just got Chuck Schumer just got himself a competitor for this is next. I I agree. agree. I I have have to..
Adam Massery, VP and Mike Creek discussed on KNX Evening News with Diane Thompson
"Adam massery is the new head of Instagram. That's his actual job title massery steps up from VP of product. He posted the news, of course, on Instagram with a picture with founders Kevin system and Mike creek or who left last week sources say they didn't like where Mark Zuckerberg. Was taking its to
Adam Massery, Instagram and Mike Krieger discussed on KRLD News, Weather and Traffic
"The head of Instagram's newsfeed team is getting a new title. Adam massery has been named head of Instagram starting today, he's taking on one of Facebook's fastest-growing properties after Instagram founders Kevin system and Mike Krieger resigned last week massery announced his new job in an Instagram post posing with the two
"kevin system" Discussed on This Week in Tech
"I think it's still on the front cover and the companies, at least in the group that I worked with, the trust in teams are different. They have different sensitivities about privacy, entrusted faith, you, they're trying to merge them. But I think for Facebook, it's like hurting cats, trying to get the Instagram people to get lockstep with the with the Facebook people, and I don't know, maybe that will change over time, but it's been my experience at least that that there are differences in terms of how they manage that aspect though, that there's companies CARA says, and by the way, the title of her piece should tell you something. A wise man leaves Facebook. How Kevin system founder of Instagram wasn't a team player, but CARA says that's exactly what Mark and Facebook needed. They need somebody to speak truth to them while it's good to be king. She writes, Mr. Zuckerberg is that controlling every aspect of the company from its many units to its board as controlling shareholder. It's not easy without the Instagram founders. It will be so much harder. So it sounds more like the issue was that and she says, she got this from insiders, Facebook telling her this system was an irritant. Yeah. We said when she had problems with Instagram, she texted Kevin system and he responded to her. He listened. He didn't get angry. She said, that's the kind of thing. You need a product guy like system to be doing. On the other hand, she said soccer. Berg, it would be nice if system was still in the room to articulate that to powerful people like Mr. Zuckerberg. But now just like that he's not. I don't buy the hot takes that they're out because they weren't businessman. Instagram was making money. It had a revenue stream. It was growing or the differences, and this is why it didn't mesh perfectly with Facebook is for Instagram for for him. His users were his customers. He was selling problem and Facebook. If you're a user, you're not the customer, the product and those two cultures do not match. Well, can it also be the possibility that has stock vested and he got it and he said, yeah, just cutting off of maternity leave. It's the first day comes back. He says in it by the way by well, he's a normal person. He's going to have some fun and what you finally true. He wants to go do creative things. That's probably true. I mean, at the point that that business is right now, it's no longer really a native creative pursuit, right? It's now part of the business and it's now about growing that business. We all know people who are startup people. They love starting maintaining it running it, not so big into Harris says he should be the chief executive of Facebook. I disagree. I don't think so. I don't think systems the right frankly. Think if you're going to be Facebook the right guy to run it his Mark. Yeah, he he doesn't. He probably. Agree to do that. No, being. President, it's probably awful. The best quote from this New York Times piece though, is this an Swisher says she? She had a talk with Kevin system at a hopelessly hip coffee place in San Francisco for I was left with one thought. One thing he said seem particularly why. So I asked him if I could put on the record quotes social media. Now, think about this is a little hard to grop, but see if we can get this is in a pre Newtonian moment. So before Newton, we knew gravity existed, but we didn't understand why it worked to Howard. We all understand that social media works says system, but not how it works. There are certain rules that govern it and we have to make it our priority to understand the rules are we cannot control it. Do you think that's fair? I think that that's really broad. I just I don't really know what it means, how it works, technically how it works socially how it works with human brains. I'll tell you maybe what he's thinking is of course, Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook to connect and everything like that. It was used against us during the election. By the Russians, particularly to convince people either not to vote or you know, to stay at home mostly or to vote for somebody in particular, to me, that was the kind of come to Jesus moment where somebody figured out how to use social media of pardon me for saying, come to Jesus in a very powerful way and they understood it..
"kevin system" Discussed on The Vergecast
"All of a sudden, the stuff that you're seeing in your feed isn't a stuff that you control it. Stuff that's been put there by people that makes it more of an attack surface if you're a hacker or you're a meddling in an election, you know, and and I should say, because you know, I say, yeah, well, so is denied that they're building this. What I reported was based on some screen shots. I had seen Anna source who is familiar with with this things development. And as I reported the time, it was extremely rough. It was like sort of barely a prototype, but just the fact that Instagram is considering it, like we believe is newsworthy given that they have resisted it for so long. And so sort of where did that product come from and how did the Instagram founders feel about it? That again is like a very interesting question me since four things. What's the fifth. What are the categories of things did there's not many more well, so another one and again, it's hard to know, but it used to be that Kevin system and Mark Zuckerberg worked together very closely and Kevin system would describe sucker Berg as a member of Instagram's board, which sort of implies the kind of relationship where this person is checking in once a month in offering you advice and consent during the big reshuffle that happened in the spring, Chris Cox became Kevin systems boss, and all of a sudden system was getting a lot less FaceTime from Zuckerberg, and I imagine was probably getting a lot more requests and suggestions from Chris Cox. And so I think just sort of changing up that dynamic where you used to feel like the CEO of your own company. And now you just feel like middle-management I think could very easily made him say the hell with it. Yeah, but that's not the that's not a flip the table, right? That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's true. That's a slow burn. The Email comes in from Chris Cox and with a big requests, but I'm interrupted eater. So what have we go full conspiracy. And it wasn't about system flipping the table. It was him preemptively quitting on his own terms before he was fired. Oh, what if I don't know? Like what if like Mark Zuckerberg is like, no, but I, I want to be as cool as you have to invite me to all the the cool Instagram parties because relax Instagram, Facebook, and he's like any said, no. And then Mark Zuckerberg was got really mad, and so he had to get out before Mark Zuckerberg, you know, it's like the rod Rosenstein theory of of Kevin system leaving Instagram. I had a theory because this is so full conspiracy by the way. I don't think this trip. What if they had an idea for new company? This seemed like a good time to start it in like route. Yeah, it's like, well, you know, we have. We've compiled a list is not a heavy enough list the Tipitapa, but you know, this is good timing for hot new idea called peach too. I, you know Paul, it's sort of like that as a theory. I actually, I can't remember exactly what my career his background was, but Kevin used to work at Google and quit his job there to go build a thing right like so he is sort of Ben through that once before where he had an idea for a company and went out and did it. And you know, it's not crazy that he would do it again. But again, you just look at everything that they were working on in the moment and the idea that he walks away there has to be a flip the table moment, right? That moment comes with as you TV like succeeding failing. Either they shut down is UT and he was like, all right, like I'm out I'm walking away or it's like the world's biggest success. Samsung start selling vertical televisions, right? Like. See secure and I'm moving on Casey that was, but one half of the Facebook executive drums indeed. Well, another half the other half well. So among us Facebook watchers, one of the most delicious live for drama stories of the year was when Brian Acton, the former co founder, I guess, still co-founder of WhatsApp, quit Facebook run the beginning of the year, and then a couple of months later tweeted, it is time hashtag, delete Facebook, and that was Ali said, and he refused all interview requests..
"kevin system" Discussed on The Vergecast
"Hello? Remember chest the flagship podcast of media, which we have successfully trolled this company officials saying that we're the flagship. No, I read hang on. I believe we've been called a flagship one of two. It's not my fault that whoever wrote that press release is not aware of how navy's work. There's only one, it's obviously, but it's true. This is the chest. I'm your friend nearby deeter bonus here. Hello, Paul, Miller is here alot. We're gonna have a lot of people on the show today. I'm just going to be straight up with everybody. Casey Newton is gonna join us. Talk about Instagram danc- for it's gonna talk about all the cameras that came out at Photokina and we have to have an emergency this weekend Ilan with Liz, because right as we went to tape the show Elon Musk was sued by the SEC. So that's going to happen a little bit later. She's she's, she's filing away area. Now we're gonna bring on when she's done, but let's start with Instagram, which was the news of the week in my mind, Instagram's founders, quit in a huff in to help us understand what's going on. We're in talked to Casey, how you doing Casey? Well, I, I'm recovering from all this drama. You know me Neil. I, I'm not one for drama yet. Every time I open Twitter. I read the headline something is happening on the Facebook senior executive team this week. It's true. I also usually case we. We bring you on. I'm like, hounds, democracy doing, and you're like, it's horrible. And yet this feels more dramatic than that previous conversation about democracy in general because it is it is legitimately crazy known as behaving, walk us through some of the drama. Sure. So if you are just catching up to the news this week after six years of working at Facebook, which of course Facebook acquired their company in two thousand twelve for a billion dollars Kevin system. And Mike Krieger said, we're leaving, and they did this so abruptly that Facebook was caught flat-footed, they did not have a plan to communicate this. They did not have a succession plan as we're recording this, we still don't know who will lead Instagram into the future and as best as I and others have been able to tell through our reporting, there was just a sense that Mark Zuckerberg was consolidating power and no longer wanted Instagram to operate with much autonomy whatsoever. And so the founders who have been responsible. For you know, one of the few bright spots at Facebook over the past two years, walked out the door and all, but promise that they would be back with another company maybe soon. Wow. What do you mean by consolidating power? He's the CEO Facebook. What is there left to consolidate? So he went out and acquired what he thought would be the next generation of social networks. He spent a lot of money on WhatsApp on Instagram on Oculus, and he sort of put a time limit on all those acquisitions and said, we're gonna let y'all play around for three or four or five years, do your thing. And then eventually we're going to kind of come in and do things are we actually don't think he said that latter part, but but there was sort of a promise made of autonomy that would last for four or five years. And that clock ran out says, other Berg did keep his word, but think of all that's happened in those past four or five years. Facebook has started to stagnate. It's sort of reached its saturation point in north. Erica, there's some evidence that it's actually declining in North America. People are sharing less to Facebook, and so that has made Instagram looked like a very shiny object. Arguably it's the crown jewel in his lineup..
"kevin system" Discussed on KQED Radio
"In Los Angeles. I'm KAI Ryssdal. Tuesday today, the twenty fifth day of September. Good as always to have you here. Everybody the global economy in a minute. But first one billion is the neatly symmetrical number with which we begin today. A billion dollars is what Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg paid by Instagram back in two thousand twelve and a billion people is how many users the photo sharing app. Has right now is however about to have to fewer employees, the co founders of Instagram also its two top executives announced last night. They're leaving Kevin system and Mike Krieger are their names. So as we do when we have questions about what the heck is going on in Silicon Valley, we have called Molly would the host of marketplace tech to make me smart. Hey, hey, look, we got to say I that founders leave after acquisitions all the time. But this somehow feels different is it it does feel different partly because it's been a while since Instagram acquired. We know that. There have been signs that there was perhaps some tension brewing. The direction of Instagram has really changed. And let's be honest. The pressure and focus on Instagram has really changed as it has evolved into kind of the primary growth engine at Facebook. I think that probably there's a lot more attention on it. It is the the brand that's kind of untainted by scandal. Apparently, a majority of Americans don't even know that Instagram is owned by Facebook, and the founders of on leaving in their blog post said that they were leaving to quote, explore our curiosity and creativity again or spend more time with their families kind of a bummer. Right. So you could imagine that it's become a bit of a machine. So talk about that machine. Right. Are we seeing and well let me actually ask you first person? I am seeing in my Instagram feed since I have disconnected from Facebook. I'm seeing all bunch more Facebook of Instagram. I am also seeing a lot of users are saying that and they're just not happy about it. There's a lot more clutter. And if in fact, if anyone listening. Knows how to make that constant Taiji TV notification go away. I would appreciate your tips. There is just a lot more happening there. The ads have become a lot more frequent a sponsored posting. Was it was a while back now, but Instagram got rid of the chronological feed? And now, you're you're Steph is delivered to you via algorithm. So they are certainly introducing a lot more the stories the messaging a lot more sort of social networking features into it and people really appreciated. The simplicity back in the day. Do you believe though, this winds up hurting Facebook the corporate overlord as it were or no, I mean, certainly the stock market has not responded, positively I think just because it is the shining jewel right now in the Facebook. I think it's also worth noting here. Let's not forget that just back in January the founder of what's up also left because of concerns intention about data and privacy. There aren't usually signs of dissent at Facebook. And so to have to I guess three people do big exits like this in a row does seem like kind of a big deal. And it's going to be a real test of Mark Zuckerberg is leadership. He's pretty much. Now, you know, he in Charleston burger where the buck stops in terms of keeping these products going and keeping them growing. Right. And we've had conversations before about how Zuckerberg doesn't always necessarily see what the future will bring you know. Right. And he's very certain of his path. And clearly these product leaders may be disagreeing without a little bit. And so we ultimately the only thing that matters is what users and advertisers, do and advertisers will follow us. Molly would the host of marketplace tech. Thanks, molly. Thanks K. Two more quick things on that story. First of all we had Kevin system on the program about three maybe four years ago. I think you can hear that interview at marketplace dot org. Also in here comes the shameless. Self-promotion part of this afternoon's broadcast if you wanna follow us on Instagram. You can we're at marketplace APM. All right moving on. Crude oil is in the middle of a bit of a rally. Brent crude the global benchmark hit four year. Highs today higher demand looming. Sanctions they're gonna take Iranian oil off the market. Also OPEC's decision this past weekend to not bump up its production. If you're looking for causation, but I'll tell you what those higher prices are really good news for American producers who are facing more challenges than just getting the stuff out of the ground. Marketplace's revenge for explains that one one of American oils big challenges, isn't environmental it isn't geological its financial. I think the biggest factor in the continued growth of American oil is the availability of capita. Bethany McLean is author of the book Saudi America fracking is very expensive so many shale oil extractors have a lot of debt their return on assets. According to one report is just point one percent right now the industry doesn't produce cash-flow on its own. And so it's dependent on investors being willing to continue to invest and literally billions of dollars. Into the ground. Investors were happy to do that when interest rates were low. But what about now that they're rising that capital go away? American oil production is going to slow, but for every reason to doubt US oil. You can find a reason to be optimistic costs have come down really dramatically over the past five years or so Jason fear is with potent in partners oil advisory in brokerage company technological advancement in fracking has been rapid. There's been an enormous increase in productivity and efficiency shale oil. It's worth bearing in mind is a very young industry. Frank Rostro is with the center for strategic and international studies on conventional wells, we've got one hundred years of experience, Don, unconventional wells. We literally have less than five years. Add to that uncertainties about energy conservation foreign oil supply capital in the future of the American oil industry is about as clear as oil itself in New York. I'm sure. Marketplace, which is not very clear. President Trump talked about OPEC and oil in his speech at the United Nations today. Also, he brought up this. The United States has just announced tariffs on another two hundred billion dollars in Chinese made goods for a total. So far of two hundred and fifty billion dollars. I have great respect and affection from my friend president. She. But have made clear our trade imbalance is just not acceptable to things about that. Number one trade imbalances aren't in and of themselves bad number two. And also one does wonder how trade negotiations are going between Washington and Beijing on Wall Street today with apologies to Samuel Beckett. Traders were waiting for the fed meeting on interest rates wraps up tomorrow. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. Running a small business in this economy.
"kevin system" Discussed on Marketplace All-in-One
"In Los Angeles resolve Tuesday today, the twenty fifth day of September, good as always to have you here. Everybody the global economy in a minute. But first one billion is the neatly symmetrical number with which we begin today. A billion dollars is what Facebook CEO. Mark Zuckerberg paid to buy Instagram back in two thousand twelve and a billion people is how many users the photo sharing app has right now. The company is however about to have to fewer employees, the co, founders of Instagram. Also its two top executives announced last night. They're leaving Kevin system and Mike Krieger are their names. So as we do when we have questions about what the heck is going on in Silicon Valley, we have called Molly would the host of marketplace tech to make me smart. Hey, my, hey KAI. So look, we got to say, I that founders leave after aquisitions all the time, but this somehow feels different. Is it? It does feel different, partly because it's been a while since Instagram acquired. We know that. There have been signs that there was perhaps some tension brewing, the direction of Instagram has really changed in, let's be honest. The pressure and focus on Instagram has really changed as it has evolved into kind of the primary growth engine at Facebook. I think that probably there's a lot more attention on it. It is the brand that's kind of untainted by scandal. Apparently, a majority of Americans don't even know that Instagram is owned by Facebook and the founders Amman leaving their blog posted that they were leaving to quote explore our curiosity and creativity again or spend more time with their family. So you know, kind of a bummer, right? So beat be good. Imagine that it's become a bit of a machine. So talk me actually about that machine. Right? Are we seeing and well, let me actually ask it first person. I am seeing in my Instagram feed since I have disconnected from Facebook. I'm seeing all bunch more Facebook ization of Instagram. I am also seeing that and a lot of users are saying that and they're just not happy about it. There's a lot more clutter. And if in fact, if anyone listening. Knows how to make that constant g TV notification go away. I would appreciate your tips there. There is just a lot more happening there. The ads have become a lot more frequent sponsored posting. It was it was a while back now, but Instagram got rid of the chronological feed, and now you're your stuff is delivered to via algorithm. So they are certainly introducing a lot more. The stories you know, the the messaging, a lot more sort of social networking features into it, and people really appreciated the simplicity back in the day. Do you believe though that this winds up hurting Facebook, the corporate overlord as it were or. No. I mean, certainly the stock market has not responded positively. I think just because it is the shining jewel right now in the Facebook emperor. I think it's also worth noting here. Let's not forget that. Just back in January, the founder of what's app also left because of concerns intention about data and privacy. There aren't usually signs of dissent at Facebook, and so to have. You know, two, three people do big exits like this in a row does seem like kind of a big deal, and it's going to be a real test of Mark zuckerberg's leadership. He's pretty much now you know he and Sheryl Sandberg are where the buck stops in terms of keeping these products going and keeping them growing. Right? And and we've had conversations before about how Zuckerberg doesn't always necessarily see what the future will bring, you know, right? And he's very certain of his path. And clearly these product leaders may be disagreeing without a little bit. And so we, you know, alternately the only thing that matters is what users and advertisers do and advertisers will follow us. Molly would the host of marketplace tech. Thanks. Thanks k. two more quick things on that story. First of all, we had Kevin system on the program about three, maybe four years ago. I think you can hear that interview at marketplace dot org. Also in here comes the shameless self-promotion part of this afternoon's broadcast. If you wanna follow us on Instagram, you can. We're at marketplace APM. All right. Moving on crude oil is in. The middle of a bit of a rally Brent crude, the global benchmark hit four year highs today, higher demand looming sanctions that are going to take Iranian oil off the market..
Instagram departures hit Facebook shares
"The co founders of the photo sharing giant Instagram are both leaving the firm message posted on Instagram by Kevin system said he might cry. We're leaving in order to concentrate on their quote, curiosity and creativity. But the departure comes amid reports of tension between Instagram's co of the bosses of Facebook it appeared where the use of the core. Facebook products has stagnated is Graham's popularity has soared, but with its increased pressure to squeeze more and more money from its uses by adding new features that some felt against the apps original, focus on
"kevin system" Discussed on KUGN 590 AM
"KGAN. Johny times are here on the radio. I'm Doug Stephan on the DJ B. Hey, so etc. Being here. Today. JD IM my tongue gets caught sometimes behind my IT when I feel really good to like I do today. Can't see what I'm saying. But you'll be able to make it out mostly as I sort of sit back relax and listened to Victoria, Cuban bring us up to date on one of today's important story. So Jennifer and Karen all of us are going to listen intently to Victoria. Well, there's a hashtag that you may start seeing a lot more of it's called hashtag why didn't report and it is a response. It's sort of an adjunct to the metoo movement. It's a response indirectly to President Trump when he was talking about Christine Ford that if it if her experience with assault had been that bad that she would have filed a police report. And so a lot of other women came forward started this hashtag, why didn't report and have are basically telling their side of the story why they didn't report things to sexual why they didn't report things. The police a listen Milano is actually one of the more vocal celebrities. She said, quote, it took me years after my assault to voice the experience to my closest friends. It took me three decades to tell my parents that the assaulted even happened. I never filed a police report. I never told officials I never tried to find Justice for my pain because Justice was never an option for me. Speaking up meant reliving one of the worst moments of my life, it meant recognizing my attackers existence when I wanted nothing more than to forget. So a lot of similar stories are coming forward. Now with that hashtag, you'll probably see that across social media a lot of women sharing that, and you know, what Trump is tone deaf on that with the with those with his tweets about it. But you know, what he's not unlike many, many other men and even women who have never been sexually assaulted a lot of women pass judgment on victims of assault and say, oh, well, if it was that bad, you should've told someone and really. Passing lots of judgment, lots of freshman. Yeah. It's a shame. And I think that it's good that the victims. Now feel like, you know, even if it's just a hashtag a lot of women are coming forward saying that they're finding strength and solidarity among each other. You know, it's important to have this opportunity and you want to hear from them instead of these phony baloney. He's like Mike eleven Eddie who has never seen a microphone or a camera that he didn't want to make love to you know. He's bringing around these people then it gets in the way of the stories. I think anyway, guys like that in the way of the stories Jennifer, can I ask you about rod Rosenstein, and what actually is going on. I don't mean to slide you, Victoria. But usually, Jennifer. Maybe on top of the this stuff more because she's talks about it. More on her other program. Then we talk about it here because I don't really rod the hot rod. Well, he's he's meeting with the president later this week. Right. That's true. That's right. What's the purpose of the meeting? So the recapture fiery. Yeah. The recap of the story is that on Friday, the New York Times in the afternoon released a piece that said rod Rosenstein who was put in remember Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation. So he's the deputy attorney general, but he's in charge of the Russian investigation and Bob Muller and Andrew McCabe. You just have to know who these people are to kind of make all this make sense, Andrew McCabe was the person who worked at the FBI. He was the second highest at the FBI deputy director under James Komi. When Komi was fired Andrew McCabe became the acting director of the FBI. So in may of twenty seventeen after Komi was fired Andrew McCabe stepped into this role, and he was taking memos. He was taking contemporaneous notes about his meetings. And now Andrew McCabe is under criminal investigation for leaking and some other charges, so they're reviewing his documents. Well. One of the memos. They came across said that rod Rosenstein had it said that he wanted to wire himself when he was interacting with the president. So that he could give the audio to the cabinet members of the administration. So that they could vote on invoking the twenty fifth amendment, which means that you can be removed from office if you are deemed unfit by your cabinet now rod Rosenstein, completely denies the story. He said that it is not true, but it did leak out in the New York Times. And it is apparently pretty easy to verify because it's backed up and Andrew McCabe member in his memos. So he's saying he didn't do it. Other people are suggesting maybe he said it as a joke. But the point is the president now has to decide do I keep this guy on or do I fire him and many people on the writes Republicans are telling Trump to keep him because they think it will look like obstruction of Justice. If Trump tries to fire him that this will arm Democrats with obstruction of Justice arguments. Even if this was completely justified. So yesterday axe. Ios or earlier in the week actually axios reported that that Rosenstein had had drafted his resignation letter that he had verbally given it to John Kelly who's the chief of staff for the president. So all of this blue about the media and rod Rosenstein shows up at the White House for a scheduled meeting expecting to be fired. If you believe the media reports and Trump just said, look, we'll meet Thursday. And we'll talk about it. One of that. Well, he did it. The media. Actually, he said I'm going to talk to them on Thursday. He said that at the UN, Alan Dershowitz who has become maybe one of the fairest thinkers, I think in all of this. You and put the words together ten years or you're right. But with all this craziness on both sides of the aisle. Alan Dershowitz said, you know, Trump should fire. This guy should put him under oath and ask him about it. And I think that's right. We don't always believe the reporting of the New York Times if true let's ask him up between all of news that fit to print is always in the news. Oh, that's not true. Yeah. Crow. Okay there. Yeah. Did fine. Thank you. All right. Very good clear. Suggestions of what's right and wrong. So now, Victoria, I'm going to come to you. If I may for your expertise, I find you to be the most credible. Well, Nicole, I think in terms of what's going on in the world of technology or the most credible person. I know so. Instagram. Kevin system and Mike Krieger are the two people running Instagram, which is owned by Facebook. Why are they getting booted by Zimmerman by what's his name Brett Katzenberg what's going on? Mark Zuckerberg, Sacramento him to and why why does this affect people using you think when the leadership changes, it affects what happens because Instagram's very popular maybe more popular more used used by people and Facebook, these younger people, what do you think about him but him firing these two guys? I don't know the reason behind it. It's I all I know is I saw a headline the CEO and co founder abruptly resigns to explore curiosity and creativity. Again, what that sounds like to me is do stuff. Stuff that he. Didn't want wanna do. If this was a band, they would be breaking up for creative differences. So what it feels like to me? But to answer your question. I don't think that anybody who's an Instagram user cares. As long as as long as the format isn't affected, and it doesn't change it. You know? No. I don't think anyone really cares who's running Twitter or Facebook. Or Mark Zuckerberg is the most visible of all of them because he and Facebook or kind of one and the same. And then there was a movie about it and the whole thing, but I think other than that. No, one cares. Who's running these platforms as long as you're getting what you want from it. Yep. All right. I would agree. Thank you for the explanation. Ten years for Cosby. Yes. Or no people in the news part to a ten years judge has been asked by the prosecutors to give them five to ten in state prison who thinks that's going to happen. And is this again. He's got the he was found guilty of sexually assaulting one person. But he's been accused or charged with it by but three counts he was found guilty. So for each count it how it holds ten years could get thirty. So if he gets five to ten that's pretty fair. Yeah. Whatever. Things that I saw was I think they had a psychologist there or therapist or someone and they were talking about based on his actions. He's the kind of person who's likely to repeat doing that kind of thing. And I know John you say stuff like this all the time that you don't believe people like that too at one time. So I don't know even though he's an old guy. That's why I think it's fair that he goes to jail because I don't know why he committed a crime just because old. I think you've not his money. The judge says to him. All right. This woman, you damage your life. You need to a check for four million dollars. What do they do? Then, you know, stick them in his house and keep them on house arrest, just because they were all angels shriveled trial. It's a this is a criminal trial. So he just offer a payout. But I would say he's probably gonna get I saw some people speculating probably three years or less. The question will be will the judge let him stay home during the appeal process because he is going to tie this up, and he is going to appeal it. So do you stay home under house arrest, or do you go to jail, and that'll be telling to see if the judge is a favorable to Cosby or not based on that decision because he's not gonna stay in jail for ten years. That's for sure he's definitely gonna appeal this. All right. A focus on more people in the news right after this forty four past the hour on the DJ vs show..
"kevin system" Discussed on This Week in Startups
"The next seven essence but if one of these companies goes out and changes the world in some way get some kind of traction that'd be huge success let alone to do it now you don't have to go directly against facebook the point of this competition is to inspire people and start the dialogue of what will come after facebook and on a higher level to inspire the community to realize that startups can compete against big companies there is a false narrative a false narrative being spread that you cannot compete against google and facebook anymore if that was true why why would facebook by what's app and by instagram and threaten snapchat with destruction if they didn't sell for two or three billion we know it's not chat didn't sell snapshots fifteen to twenty five billion depending on what you're sold your shares and over the company's got some problems it's a public company that's not going anywhere i predict actually they're going to do well an instagram which sold for a billion to birth made the biggest mistake in the history of the technology industry in terms of that company would have been worth one hundred fifty to two hundred fifty billion right now in fact most people would say instagram is going to be bigger and better and more profitable than facebook at the end of the day so huge error there kevin system should have done what evan spiegel has done which is stay independent and so all of these lessons i think are now on the table with the open book challenge and there's plenty of time for you to get involved if you're hearing my voice you have until june fifteenth to submit your application to get into the july first finals because we spend those two weeks reviewing it if an application happened to come in late we might actually look at it if it was great and you never know you might sneak in and we'll have those twenty finals going over the summer but independent of this competition we're always looking for great companies for the launch incubator.
"kevin system" Discussed on TechStuff
"And they launched it in twenty ten but our story will begin a little earlier than that because you guys know i love my history so let's begin with a quick look at the backgrounds of the two founders kevin system was born in nineteen eighty three in holliston massachussetts and his parents are douglas system a vice president of human resources at the department store corporation tj x companies and his mother diane is an executive in the marketing department at zipcar and has worked at other startups he attended school in concord massachusetts at a private school called middlesex school a boarding school or private school rather which has fewer than four hundred students total and according to the new york times has nearly as many acres in land as it has students enrolled so this is not a rags to riches tale this is more of a riches to holy cow you are so incredibly rich tail or mr system in addition to his studies he became a fan of the computer first person shooter game doom two and i talked about that in a couple of episodes way back when when i was covering things like aid the doom franchise was one of a handful of games that launched level developer tools to the community that meant that if you liked you could download those tools for yourself and you could actually build your own maps for the game system began to do that and also started studying computer programming the really only more as an enthusiast hey would not pursue a degree in computer science after school system enrolled in stanford university back in two thousand two studying management science and engineering so essentially the business classes over at stanford and stanford was or still is actually located near silicon valley in california and it's one of those places where am bishops students and eager investors often collide they they meet up with each other they share ideas and frequently students are looking to get recruited right of.
"kevin system" Discussed on TechStuff
"Support for tech stuff comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans chances are you're confident when it comes to your work your hobbies and your life rocket mortgage gives you that same level of confidence when it comes to buying a home or refinancing your existing home loan with rocket mortgage you can apply simply and understand fully so you can mortgage confidently to get started go to rocketmortgage dot com slash tech stuff equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states in l consumer access dot org number three zero three zero get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how stuff works dot com hey either in welcome to tech stuff i'm your host jonathan strickland i'm an executive producer over at how stuff works in the love all things tech and today i'm doing an episode based off a listener request nellie asked if i might do an episode about instagram and as it turns out instagram is a pretty interesting story and big enough so that it necessitates two episodes so this is our first one talking about the birth of instagram and in our next episode we'll continue that story but today we're going to talk about an app that started off as a project that was meant to help a young fellow learn how to code and it turned into a billion dollar acquisition deal it's one of those silicon valley fairy tales that thousands of people chase after but only a select few ever achieve so we're going to look at the instagram story an instagram was designed by cofounders kevin system and mike krieger.
"kevin system" Discussed on StartUp Podcast
"Twenty five thousand dollar investment is now a stake worth hundreds of millions of dollars now one twitter in your portfolio is something any investor would dream of chris has a lot more than one kickstarter instagram uber he was an early investor in all of them and he's developed something of a philosophy for successful investing sure you evaluate the idea you look at the numbers kick the tires that's all important but he says he also looks hard at the conviction of the people who are pitching him the ideas that we back in entrepreneurs we back there's so much conviction about the inevitability of success it's contagious i mean when i first sat down with kevin system the founder of instagram and he started talking about why instagram and pitching me on why i should get involved there i sat down with in the back of my mind look photo sharing has been done a bunch of times i feel lucky to have already gotten some money back out of photo bucket before like i might be the one guy who is in made money and photo sharing and there's no way lightnings gonna strike twice but as you listen to him you get the perception that he's actually looking through you to some spot behind you that's five years in the future and he just knows the inevitability of the success of his platform and by the end of the conversation you're like please take my money so what starts is this like all right kid what are you what what do you got is just like wow let me get on this thing the train is leaving the station this was thrilling to hear because that conviction i actually feel it and conviction in general is a pretty rare feeling for me i'm much more intimate with doubt an ambulance and chris is like a teacher handed me the answers to test he's about to give explaining exactly what he wants to see for me in order to invest in my company i need to project conviction check and i need to instill foam oh for united millennials foam.
"kevin system" Discussed on WEEI
"And the espn app i have jim basketball strong wit is forced the olympic men's downhill to be postponed first race of the eleven event alpine pro graham scheduled for sunday organizers said the downhill would be moved thursday me time teenager red gerard has won the us his first gold medal in the men's slopes style snowboarding 17yearold from colorado a native is a second straight american to win the event which made its olympic debut just four years ago in the nfl the minnesota vikings have denied the new york giants request to interview kevin system fancy for their offense of coordinator positions the fancy was recently passed over for the viking oh see job and the giants new coach pat shurmur was the offense of coordinator minnesota's season a goal before taking the head job in new york they were waiting this out and the vice pulled the rug out from under the giants nhl at out the league's best team back in play in back getting it done with the scoring doughty trying to clarify what a right this had been to hold that it set a point grittner alkudrah who's gonna start shooting from over there hadn't centrepoint white ziprecruiter halt joke w fla second straight game kikuchi ralph has lit the land steven stamp go school and to give nhl leading lighting past the king's board of three they rick tires well video a couple years number four during a pregame ceremony bears walking the lord our whole still fail ever austin matthews more than five naughty the fed 26th of the season frosted matthews mitch mortar two goals three gives leaves double the sense six three dozen johnson ted potter junior coleaders heading to the final round but the pebble beach proam in your role meryl beats luke rocco via third round knockout at ufc to 21 thanks for staying up all night for producers scott messina i'm jim basketball gale abroad in the new cavs gets carry in the seas on espn radio on abc tv tip time separate 330.