4 Episode results for "Ken Raskin"
The History Of Segregation With Richard Rothstein, Letting Down A Date And Billionaires
"Hey this is Jill from the container store. Oh. Is there something wrong? I just thought a virtual designer would be a cool robot I could do a robot voice if that helps maybe high I am jail let's diesel absolutely not regular voice. Thank you. Yeah I'm not good at impressions enjoy free virtual in-home Closet designed and up to twenty five percent off closet systems with containers doors custom closet sale, the container store where space comes from. Just. My mouth and asking I may writer director and Mediocre Driver Hi, I'm Gabby done. By Con Central, icon wink and terrible driver. Fair. I used to be a terrible driver but I've gotten a little bit better i. Take risks that I don't think people would take I start stop one time I got a fight with an ex-boyfriend because he didn't like I was driving I just pulled the car over got out and was like you drive that. That seems kind of reasonable. My parents have had that fight. Yeah where it's like you think you know so much you drive. Then did you get back in the car? Did you walk home? Back in the car. I think that my partner drives to slow and doesn't take enough risks and then my. On the other end of this Cheyenne drives like a maniac that's not surprising to me. It's terrifying and also she is a road rage like she will like g someone cuts her off. It will be full honking middle finger whenever I see someone fuck up on the road I mostly like I've done that. Yeah and I get that upset because I fuck up all the time I don't like people who speed and cut across highways and stuff because actually intentional. But when someone just. Like makes a mistake. How can I judge them I've done that hundred times yeah. No I mean and that's a good metaphor for life as well. But my sister's mode is to absolutely judge them an absolutely like drive up behind them and yell curse words and I'm in the car white knuckling it being like we're going to die we're GonNa die but the the thing about someone who does road rage is that if you go gently like, Hey, maybe you should slow it's like no. Now, you're on the receiving end do. And the road rage is that you remind me never to drive with your sister I also feel like her car probably isn't clean enough for me. It's very clean, but it does smell like weed. Oh, that's good. I have such a fear of getting in France cars because I'm so worried they're not going to be clean I know I remember this about. You it's really tough. You bring your own towel should bring my own tail visages between US variety show filled with heartfelt advice, ridiculous games and brutal honesty. If someone is new and they're listening and they don't know you have OCD, they'll just be like why did gabby suggest bringing a towel and why did Allison? So readily go I should bring a towel. They're like what reality to these girls live in and it's like. Oh let me catch you guys up. Gabby sisters a lunatic and Allison has OCD. You're pretty much caught up now that's the gist of the show. I'm about to embark on a road trip about to drive over two full days to get to Colorado to meet up with my parents who are also driving from New York to Colorado, and I just hope that when they arrive, they're not divorced who's driving for you and jake for me and Jake we're going to split it okay and who's driving for your parents I'm assuming that. The plan is for them to split it but I feel like my mom will probably do more because it's not a great dynamic when my mom is the backseat driver really I would have thought that because your mom's Nishi wouldn't like your mom had knee surgery she wouldn't be able to drive long distances I know but it's like what's worse the pain or the fighting I duNno. Does she think he gets to slow or something Mike Dad is not the best driver and I feel like I can see that because neither my yeah I mean he's better than me for sure but there's some there's some risks happening. Okay. Cheyenne would argue that she's like a great driver because we get everywhere thirty minutes earlier than Google maps. told us we. It's really nice actually driving long distances because you have a lot of time to think, and you can play music and podcasts. It's kind of soothing if it's all very flat for two days to I don't have enough thoughts for two full days. I don't know what I'm. GonNa say to Jacob already said everything I have to say to him listen to a podcast I've listened to the podcast you've listened to every single podcast. Eight to every single podcast every single podcast that. Will interest me I have at least tried everything that cap. Of the ones that are available to me. I, go eyebrows through Apple podcasts constantly looking for new content all the time. Have you listened to our back catalogue? We've got a great episode of You guys this week, we're going to be talking to Richard Rothstein all about his book, the color of law which details, America's history of segregation and redlining. It was so interesting looking at all his writing interviews he's done on it. So I'm really excited for this one, and later we're going to be discussing billionaires how they influence income inequality and I have a few bones to pick with them. As those most of America. But I. Ask. Question International. Nicola from Los Angeles, but originally, Hong Kong. So the T. L. D. R. too long didn't read is if someone asks me if I want to see them again, wall on our first date and I know I don't want to how do I tell them especially if they ask before the end of the date. Some more. I'm like sweating thinking about this. The more details there have been many states I've been on where the guy will ask me if I want to hang out again while we're on the date I, find it very uncomfortable to say, no in person especially, if it's not the end of the date yet since I don't WanNa make it awkward. I ended up texting them later that I didn't feel a connection and. I'm sorry for saying yes during the day, but I felt too awkward to say no, and so far. Everyone has responded. Okay. Should I tell the truth in the future or is it okay to keep lying just keep texting than the truth afterwards how do I go about telling the truth during the date and also if I don't want to be so I can't just say. Friends. Thank you. By the way I've been following you too for years washed every single and youtube video and absolutely loved the podcast BS. I know I shouldn't be dating during pandemic I wore my mask and always have outdoor dates but I know I was still putting people at risk, and since pause my dating APPs. Well, thank you for the accountability although you could have been just doing facetime dates or whatever like we wouldn't have known they were. We wouldn't have known to judge you but I do appreciate the caveat for these trying times. I. Also think that you could potentially do safe outdoor dates with social distancing. Yes and people have short I don't want us to give up on love right now we need it more than ever. Doing facetime dates. Yeah. But Wow. So I picked this question because I did not know the answer. The question I via email I said, this was interesting to me because I have seen a lot of dating advice that has said always make sure to ask about the next state on the first date so that they know you're interested and so that they they feel like you want to see them again like it's given as a good tip. But now when framed from Nikola about what it actually feels like to be on the receiving end of that I can see how that would be very pressuring and. Like make you sort of have to make a split-second decision. Sometimes, you don't know how you felt about a date until you get home, you get home from the date and you're like, okay how did I feel about that? Like do I want to see the person again it's hard to that decision like when you're looking at them, I also want to address the aspect of this person being a stranger and you not knowing what their emotional reaction to rejection will be. Right. So there is like element of potential. Violence potential I you know like I don't want to say like everyone is going to take rejection well, and like you like you can I say. person you can always say, no to someone's face in like it will end safely. Right. So I think that like first off like less make sure that if you're even considering saying no that you're not getting a bad vibe from that person or they are public or that you're in public I would like prioritize your safety over everything versus their feelings. But so let's say you are in public. Let's say like you you kind of know this person or friend of a like whatever it is. You don't feel like it's a safety issue. Then my advice would be I, still don't know. Yeah I mean even if it is a friend of a friend, it's so hard to judge safety issues anyway because we all are taught to have our our hackles up or whatever I don't know if that's exactly what that means, but you get it. So I think it's fine to say, yes in person and then say what you really feel afterwards I also think it is fine to say you don't want to be friends. I know that's weird. But I think that you don't know them. You vet them once like a lot of times when I was trying to go on a dating APP dates after my ex and I broke up I was not in a good enough place to be doing that like I would go and go on these dates and I would like make out with someone and then I would be like. I got home and I was like I feel crappy like I. missed my ex and I feel awful and so like you know you're having fun in the moment but I think you do need that time to reflect after the date and like you know, I would just say, Hey, I that I was ready to start dating but I'm really not and I'm sorry. Like I was I can't remember if I said, I didn't want to be friends but I think I was just like you know my assumption is you're on a dating up to date. Like you're not a dating APP to make friends so I mean unless you're A. As a queer woman wherein that happens a lot. But that has to sort of happened organically. I've never been like met someone on a dating APP, and then like let's be friends, it's always sort of been like. Either like it just naturally went that direction. But it wasn't like we decided after one date like we should keep hanging out as friends, I think if someone asks you in the middle of the date, you can sort of just say ask me again at the end of the date. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that can kind of be like a playful way to put it off. Because I think it is like if you're in the middle of dinner or. Email like you're someplace where you cannot get away from them. Then it's sort of like. It's a time saver. So you say like check in like why don't we check back at the end of the date and for them they can be like, okay, they're being cool way versus. Taking immediately as rejection I hate when I just remembered times where people were like Oh, my God I'll have to bring you some time or like, Oh, you should meet my for like in the middle of a first date like Oh my God, you would love my friend Sarah or whatever, and I'm like wait. Now, I'm thinking back on it and that was a trick I also think it's valid to say I don't like jump into relationship. Yeah. I don't jump into dating and so for me I'm still very much like in the getting to know you processing mode and so I truly like don't know exactly what I want out of this right now. Yeah. Yeah, and then later when you get. Home you can say I thought about it more and I, just don't feel romantic connection you're doing dating apps you can even put in your profile like I'm here date if we're not compatible, I don't WanNa make friends I've literally never had somebody just like try to be my friend after Daddy's kind of gay thing. So I'm surprised that this is happening or or is it a trick is It like guys being like a Morris like we'll be friends secretly hoping that one day you'll like make out like is that the trick well I mean. So what what scenario does this come up where you they're like, do you want to go out again and you say, no, thank you, and then like I don't think you should ever bring up wanting to be friends. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. If they. Then in response to you saying, you don't want to date them anymore say that they want you guys just become friends then I think you're like I totally understand that sediment but I just think because of how we met and because we started off on this foot, it just like makes more sense for us to go our separate ways. Yeah. One of my best friends right now. That I made in the last year and a half we went on a date. We knew we met each other in real life. We went on a date and I was in open relationship, and then after is hey, I texted her and was like, Hey, I think you're really cool and cute. I like starting a relationship with someone else. It's not monogamous or anything, but I just want you to know that. I'm not just seeing you I'm seeing other people and she wrote back and was like Oh okay well, I don't really want that. then. Let's just be friends and I was like, okay. Maybe we'll be friends and then like she's become one of my best friends when was the next time you hung out after that who who initiated that? WHO DID INITIATE IT? I think I, think we I think she asked me to go to like gay dance night and we went and then it was sort of a very interesting test of being single because we're out at. Like a gay Bar, like it was like we were clearly friends because we were there to like flirt with people. You know what I mean it was very clear friend hang out. Yeah. I mean I guess my biggest piece of advice is to just not feel like you have to give someone a definitive answer in that moment totally and you're not lying like you can just say things to get out of the thing and then go home. Right like I like the goal should be to defer. So, like if you're asking the middle of the date, you defer to the end of the date, and if you're asked at the end of the day, it's sort of like. You know. To. Like someone's like okay. So let let's almost do role play of this. So it's like I'm municipality you. We're on a date the end of the day. Here we go. Okay I'd love to see you again. Oh Yeah you know. I don't know I've been getting more of like a friend vibe from this whole thing I'm sorry I just don't feel like it's like clicking romantically so I. I think I'd rather not like waste both of our time. I'm devastated. Also yeah. Here's the thing. Don't let anyone see your address or where you live, right? Okay. So now you do it to me. Okay. Hey this was so fun. I'd love to see you again I. Actually my friend's having a party on Saturday, you should come Oh. Thank you. I'm actually I'm busy Saturday. I just tell you like I'm kind of very slow when it comes to dating the process, I. I don't like to commit to things before I get a chance to kind of sit with stuff like process it on my own but I had a lot of fun and. Thank you so much. Okay, well. It is a dinner party and I do need to know if you are coming right now because it's sort of a plated thing. No I already told you. I can't make it. Okay. So you'll have sex if you can make it no I absolutely will not be there. Okay. So like day of you'll just let me know there's no scenario at all where you will see me. For those that Nikola, there is no scenario at all where you will see me again. But I, do think at the end of the day I think because you have that out you can be a little more. To the point but in the middle of the date, let's like defer your answer to the end of the day or else it's going to be very uncomfortable for everybody. I hope that was helpful at all I'm engaged and just like the idea of having to go through this. So, anxious and uncomfortable. Yeah. I'll watch the bachelor and be like, oh. I don't know how I'm GONNA handle this when it happens to me. I'm like, I'm never that's never. GonNa. Happen to me. Dating is awkward and Dated Early Democ is also awkward so. That priorities yourself your safety, and then after that, it's their feelings and respecting them, and so you're gonNA have to figure out how to walk that line but protect yourself i. Feel like you have to hang out with people you're not into and like if you know that, you're not going to see them again. Then just make sure that your response isn't super. Committal yeah You know there is no scenario in which you will see me again. If, you want to submit your international questions ended to just between us pod at Gmail Dot Com just between us peo- at G., DOT com. Next we have a juicy interview with our. Highly. Esteemed Guests Richard Rothstein author of the color of law stick around. Mob Cloth makes getting dressed fun with unique mood boosting prints and vintage inspired versatile styles that make you look good. But more importantly feel good. They're back to being independently owned and all about perfect fits for everybody find your joy at mom cloth. What did you get when we got to get things removed cloth? Would you get? It hasn't arrived yet but I got this really cute Cardigan. That has a really fun print on it and you know that I always cold. So I'm very excited to have it. You also like fun print. What did you get I'm so I'm moving and I got these little little fairy lights I'm thinking and put it up like in the back of the house but there little bumblebees also. 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Think successfully to demolish the myth that the reason we have residential segregation and every metropolitan area in this country because of something we all called the facto it just sort of happened by accident could happen because of private bigotry or. Actors in the private economy like banks or real estate agents discriminating or people just like me to live with each other of the same race or income differences. It's an other myth. The reason we have residential segregation in every metropolitan area in this country is because of racially explicit government policy that the federal state and local levels. Now we're so powerful these policies that they determine. The racial segregation that we have today. A the policies numerous at the federal level. It was the requirement this condition of suburbanization that developers. Sell suburb and homes to white families only. Levittown for example, most famous example federal government prohibited him as a condition of his bank guarantees Levitt on talking about tha prohibited him from selling African Americans and even required. Federal policy required the include cause and the that every home everything we sail rentokil. African, Americans. The suburbs around every metropolitan area in this country, the white loose that we have around cities was created explicitly racial basis by the federal government that was a constitutional violation, the Fifth Amendment. And we have an obligation to remedy it. It did not happen by accident it can't unhappy by accident we need racially explicit policy to undo this. That's as powerful as the policies created. I can go on and on maybe I'll stop here and but you ask more questions. We want to know all of it but I. Start. Well there were many many policies starting at different times, the federal government particular wasn't involved in housing until the new deal Roseau destruction. The depression of the very first housing policy that the new deal intimated was the creation of the first public housing. In this country, it was not poor people we think or a public housing is being for poor people the first public housing in this country lasting for about twenty years, they're getting a nineteen thirty three. Was for working class families who could afford the full cost of the housing rent. They weren't subsidized the government built the housing and collected rent full rent from the the working class families and the depression. Twenty five percents on employment. But the public housing for the seventy five percent who were employed. It was the most desirable housing available because we had a housing shortage. And everywhere that the new deal, the public works administration built this public housing, it's segregated frequently creating segregation where it hadn't previously existed. The Great African American poet novelist playwright, the likes to use your own. This other bottle he grew up in the integrate the downtown Cleveland April that's not how we picked up Cleveland. Today He says his best friend in high school was Polish. He said he dated a Jewish girl that's what you'd expect to see happening. Integrated Highschool and a integrated neighborhood, but the public works administration with into this neighborhood, the modest housing and creating two separate projects. One for African Americans one for whites creating a pattern, the segregation in that area of Cleveland, and elsewhere with other projects that persists to this day we had a lot more integration in the mid to early twentieth century we have today we eat stunned that we were transported back there to see the kinds of non segregation that existed for the simple reason that we were manufacturing economy. None of the Internet stuff in those days, factories making things had to be located in the same central concentrated area because they needed to be located near keep fourth or a railroad terminal no highways yet no trucks had to be able to get their parts or shit their final products by rail of ship. So if you had a factory district that was employing both African American and white workers, they all have to live in broadly the same neighborhoods, these the neighborhoods and the public works administration started to segregate. In in the color of my book I, I like the pick on self-satisfied smoke places that think they're better than everybody else. One of them, I write about as Cambridge Massachusetts. Perhaps you've heard of it. The area between. The area between harbored Leme t the central square neighborhood was about half black half white in the nineteen thirties fully integrated neighborhood public works. Administration demolished housing there at the bill two separate projects one for whites one for African Americans creating patterns of segregation with that another projects in the Boston area that persist to this day. And these policies say the policies of the federal government was so powerful. That they determine the landscape, the racial landscape of our metropolitan areas today. I mentioned Levittown as an example, but you go to any metropolitan areas in the country and find suburbs. That's how the white working class was suburban is. Those homes weren't expensive Levin our for example of those homes and the around one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety sold for about one hundred, thousand dollars a piece in today's money. Any returning war veteran and he was a working class job because the four, the home for a hundred thousand dollars a piece for. From evening without payment. White families so could move to town and pay less than their monthly housing costs than they will pay for rent public housing beforehand. Well, those hundred thousand dollar homes don't want herself but thousand dollars everywhere in the country they've appreciated in value they self three, hundred, four, hundred, five, hundred, thousand dollars in some places, a million dollars or more. The white families who are subsidized by the federal government with fha NBA mortgages, and developers subsidized with guaranteed bank loans. The gain equity over the course of the next couple of generations from the appreciation in the value of their homes they gained wealth. The used that wealth to send their children to college they use it to perhaps take care of a temporary emergencies, unemployment or medical issues. They, use it the subsidize, their retirements. And they use it to bequeath wealth that children and grandchildren who then had down payments for their own homes. African Americans who prohibited prohibited on the federal policy. From, participating in that wealth generating exercise gay no such well they continue renting apartments for the most part in urban areas today African American, incomes on average. Are, about sixty percents, sixty percent of incomes you would think that if there was a sixty percent income ratio African. America with how wealth. At sixty percent, the white average, but in fact. While African American incomes are about sixty percent white it comes. African American wealth is only five percent of white household well, and that enormous disparity between the sixty percent income ratio on a five percent wealth ratio is entirely attributable to unconstitutional Federal Housing Policy Practices in the Mid Twentieth Century. There's America's this is a civil rights violation. We have an obligation to remedy that wealth gap. There's enormous wealth gap creates the the overall inequality between the racist that we have in this country today. By concentrating the most disadvantaged families families without well in low income neighborhoods We've created a crises in our public education system because INS, there are single schools we call them segregated schools were all the children come to school with the. Conditions that make it difficult for them to learn whether it's. From being up at night because they live and more polluted neighborhoods and the with diesel trucks driving through them health disparities between African Americans and whites because so many African Americans live in less healthy neighborhoods without access to supermarkets to sell fresh food. We had zoning ordinances only rules and in the twentieth century that the placed toxic dumps and polluting industries in neighborhoods where African Americans lived but not white neighborhoods to as an explicit racial policy. The wealth gap predicts a a good part of the police abuse that we spent so much time protesting about. there would still beat discriminatory police behavior I'm sure but not nearly to the extent that there is if we weren't concentrating the most disadvantaged young men and single neighborhoods where they have no access to good jobs or transportation to get those jobs and let me say one file thing and I'll stop and. Of The wealth gap and the segregation that's created. Predicts the very, very dangerous and frightening political polarization that we have this country today it's not entirely racial that largely tracks racial lines. How can we ever expect to develop the common national identity that we need to preserve this democracy is so many African Americans and whites loose Sohar for each other that we have no ability to understand each other's life experiences empathize with each other. It's inconceivable how we can preserve democracy on those conditions. So. So what can we do like what rules need to be overturned? What new policies need to be introduced like how do we kind of fix? These decades of inequality was about to ask as the answer reparations. I. Think. The important reason? To learn this history. And why I emphasize it so much. So, long as we believe the happened accidentally that's de facto segregation. It's easy to think in fact, we have no alternative thing that can only on happen accidentally. The Supreme Court has actually said that you can't explicitly try to undo segregation that the government didn't create. Once we understand that the government created this through public policy, it's equally easy to understand the public policy can undo it. The problem is not that we don't know what the policies the undo it. Our policy experts housing experts know very well, how undo the segregation what's missing? Is a new civil rights movement that Going to in the words of the late John Lewis 'cause good trouble. To Force this country to redirect the segregation that we as they national country a nation has created a for example in those suburbs that I talked about and they're in every metropolitan area in this country sold in the Mid Twentieth Century two, hundred, thousand, four, hundred, thousand dollars in today's money for African Americans were explicitly by public policy excluded. Then now, no longer selling for one hundred, thousand dollars. The federal government should be buying homes in those neighborhoods at market rates and reselling them to qualify African Americans at the deep discounts. So they can afford to live in communities that are now permitted to live in for the first time or since the Fair Housing Act but can no longer afford to working class families. Savita race can afford to move to these communities. The federal government should be subsidizing African Americans to move to them because they will want. On constitutional basis. We have policies for low income families who disproportionately minority African American Hispanic That gives them some support for their housing that's a federal program called low income. Housing. Tax Credit. Which is a subsidy, a tax credits for developers to build housing that's affordable for low income families. THAT PROGRAM LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDIT administered by the Federal Treasury Department places priority on placing low income housing tax credit developments in existing low income communities reinforcing that segregate. The policy doesn't say it's for racial reasons. Is claims that if you place low income housing in existing low income communities, it will somehow improve those communities. That's backwards. We are the change that policies we place a priority not all but place a priority in placing more. Housing that subsidize in higher. Opportunity. Communities those are the kinds of things we should be doing. It's not that we don't know what to do is that we don't have a new civil rights movement that's going to make it uncomfortable to maintain our segregated policies and I'm hopeful that have spoke black lives matter demonstrations that the engage some twenty million or more Americans mostly white. That Ana those demonstrations and is still rights movement can emerge will address the residential segregation that we as a nation have created because unless we address residential segregation. We're not going to address the symptoms whether those symptoms or schools or in health disparities in the criminal. Justice. System. I know Americans don't love to look back and be like, Oh, we did a racist thing is that what it is it's just forgotten because people assume that the projects were people and that's where the and they did this to themselves like is that the? Way of washing this away. Yes that's what people believe because they haven't learnt any better. That's why I wrote this book the color of Law to teach people. And I'll say the book has been out for three and a half years. No single fact that I described to you. Has Been challenged by a single historian. it's well established history. I just described the textbooks that we use in high schools like talk about this in the collar wall lie about the history. None of them mentioned the segregation that the federal government imposed and let me just say that this segregation was not the action of rogue bureaucrats working for the Federal Housing Administration or the Public Works Administration this was written policy written policy the federal. Housing, administration for example, how to manual. Which? was used by appraisers whose job was to recommend or not recommend applications of developers for bank guarantees developments Emmanuel set explicitly. You couldn't a guarantee, a federal bank loan of for developer who build a non-segregated project you couldn't even the manual said. guaranteed bank loans for a developer of an all white project if it was going to be located near where African Americans were living because the written words and the Federal Policy Manual. In the written words of the Federal Policy Manual it said that would run the risk of infiltration by inharmonious racial. And in my book, the color of law I have a photograph of six foot high half mile long concrete wall. The developer was required to put up by the federal government. to separate his proposed developments from a nearby African American neighborhood before the federal government would guarantee his bank loans. Wow said, do you think an important part of current activism is educating people about this history since it's not taught to us in schools? Yes. Absolutely. A as long as we think this happened by accident or happen naturally it's quite easy to come to the conclusion that they can only on happened by accident or on happening naturally this was created. Not just created by government, but per craziest by government did an unconstitutional fashion. In violation, the Fifth Amendment, the Constitution Violation of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution once we recognize that the racial boundaries in every metropolitan area of this country are a civil rights violation. Then, the next step is to recognize that we have an obligation as Americans to redress it to fix it and I think that recognition can come. It'll be difficult. It's a lot harder to create the kinds of policies I was describing desegregate neighborhoods. Was To desegregate buses or lunch counters of water fountains as we did in the nineteen sixties. But it's just as imperative there our constitution to do so. Thank you so much. This was so enlightening important for people to know because I know we're just not taught this part of our history. So where can people find out more about your work and? Also get your book. The book is called the color of law I don't mean to boast, but it's not on the New York Times bestseller lists any bookseller will have it. Thank you so much for coming on our our audiences. You know eighteen to thirty something people who I think absolutely miss this in their textbooks. So I, we really appreciate it. Thank you very much. I appreciate talking to you. It's time for high both. And this week, we have a very special guest joining us for America's favorite game show. America's favorite. Father. Ken Raskin. Coach. He's so thrilled to be here. Some very excited. I. Don't very excited A. Can't wait to hear these hypotheticals. He was trying to get me to tell them ahead of time but I wouldn't I thought everybody time. No are you an avid listener of hypotheticals? Paired. Okay let's see. Let's see how prepared you are. Okay. So our first game I thought we would go on team a little bit. Are you a terrible parent? Just, to be clear, you're not you are not. You're the best. This is just. I like to I like the clarification. Okay. So our first game, your daughter ten has a beloved pet dog who shits all over the house constantly. So what night you switch out that dog with a robot dog and no one notices because the year is twenty forty and robots have come a long way. Your daughter only gets suspicious ten years later when the dog is still alive and thriving, you end up having to put down the robot dog while your daughter is at college. So she won't find out what you did. Are you a terrible parent? S Questions, right? Yeah. So then my daughter will have the robots. Your daughter loved her dog. And therefore, she thought the robot was her dog. Did they have the same personality? Yeah robots are really good into this was really will help strange robot. Dr. Right you you programmed it for what happened to the original dog. He brought it to a shelter. He gave it to what is good friends. I. Thought we were. Coming where you're bringing Ken onto, cancel him for rehoming your dog years ago. Please go on Alison. They still is a little personal I changed it to having a robot dog site. You did come off as bad as when you just made me give away our dog. See now it all comes out. All the time in your podcast year. I was GonNa say do you feel like you're like I made one mistake my whole God damn life and I have to hear about it every single day for my daughter even though I did so many good things for her all the time. Not only do I hear benefit the entire world to get your High. Parents have the same the same gripes. Alison doesn't hold a grudge though. I Don I feel like I. Have. I have forgiven you but it was also trauma should have my dog begins from. Dr. Well I. Love I love. This gotcha journalism we have going on here. Anyway. I do not think I. would. BE TERRIBLE BECAUSE It was just like having a real dog. Yet yoga she loved the robot rights. You love the robot was a robot dog that looked up your robots and that you didn't really liked the robot dog. That would be something different but here's since you didn't even know was the original dog new of the. And it lasted a long time probably longer than the real? Dogwood West. I think that was a good parents. Let me ask you a question. What happened to the original Doug they adopted the dog got adopted actually. I. These really rich people. Oh, fed it who fed it like fresh food every day, and it had a bunch of toys and beds and a field to to play. Okay. Then your then then because of the outcome you are a good parent but normally dropping a dog back at his shelters I feel like that's what happened to beans like my dog and I'm like who would ever give away this angel. So but since his life ended up good, I say you guys are fine with just apparent blatantly lying to their kid for ten years and then never telling them. I. Bet One night throw their next day. He didn't say dad is this the robot? Is One of those moments where it's very obvious. You were a lawyer. YEA that's true. That's true. Okay. Not Apparent. Yeah, you really got yourself out of that one. Wow. Okay our next game. Is this person alien or just rude K. while playing in a tennis tournament you're randomly assigned doubles partner goes out of their way to hit every ball. Even when it's on your side of the court, they are incredibly fast and skilled, and you win the tournament without hitting a single ball. How is this person in alien or just rude they let you take home the trophy. Alien. No any human being to possibly do that. You don't. Think. So even the best players in the world could way return every ball and. Southern. Wait what year is this taking place in twenty, thirty, seven robot. Kid. That's not a choice alien. But. Allison is twists and turns robot. 'cause you establish the existence of robots in the first question. Turns out that when you got rid of the robot dog, they refurbished it into this tennis partner and it's now trying to get back at you because he would never play ball with it. then. No, no no there's no rules type. Dad, this is my fanciful world where I get to be king do you like Oh, I've finally started putting together the pieces of hypotheticals into one cinematic universe. Hadn't even thought of that. I just. Machine Yeah. So so what what do you think of the responses don't you're supposed to say? I'll announce the winner at the end of all. Our final game is America's favorite game show. Would you stay with this cheater? That you have to at least listened to the question I. Know You have very black and white views of cheating? Your Wife, a forty two years is recovering from knee surgery. And needs to go to physical therapy twice a week. You find out months into treatment that your wife is naked during physical therapy. So she can feel more connected to her body. Would you stay with this cheater slash nudist? Her physical therapist is very good looking. Why does she need to be? Because she says that it helps be more connected to her. Physical Therapist. Only touch your knee. But the physical therapist is also naked. Why? because. He thinks he does a better job naked as well. I. This is so confused. But I, also does does my wife tell me this the first day never tells me. At no doesn't tell you until one day go to pick her up you find both naked knee exercises. I hide under you would leave mob for that. Okay wait wait wait. It takes place in the home. No takes place at a physical therapy off and they're not wearing like when you get when you get a massage, you're wearing a little towel nothing no complete. Both of them are completely the only ones in the physical therapy office. KNOWS, everybody's naked in this place. No just them. All right I'm out. It's over. Yeah. You have stayed for so much worse than this one you're trying to imagine if I was if I was monogamous. I know that's hard for you. I know it is hard I. Alien to I get. Yeah. I guess I would leave mostly because I'm like imagining like doing physical therapy and you're like off there's no cover and you're like, if you get a at least they put down like a sheet like I don't know it seems gross. It just for sanitary reasons you're Li. Seems gross but that has said what if this is the only way new get better? Wow. That's fair. Okay. So I'm going to announce the winner. Award Gabby Five, hundred, seventy, two points and my dad, Ken. Raskin seven hundred thirty seven points mainly for just being a really good sport during this. Hypothetical. Data. All the answers, right Now. Nobody got the. That's Disappointed if anybody did. Thank you so much for joining US I. Hope that you're not mad at me and I love you very much. Say I love you back. After the break we'll be talking all about billionaires. Welcome back to just between us, it's time for top. xxxxx baby. So this week I wanted to discuss billionaires because they're getting a lot of heat and I think they deserve it. Yes. Okay. So just this morning I saw a thing about trump again, trying to get rid of the post office and I tweeted hello billionaires like we need like three billion dollars to fix the post office and to keep it running where are you guys like Bloomberg health like you acted like you wanted to help people where the fuck are you save the post office? I don't understand like there's no world in which they would ever run out of money. There's no world in which they like made any of this money in a way that his ethical. So like what are you doing? Are you just sitting around? I don't understand I think that one of the falsities of the American dream is that anybody can become a billionaire. nope. Not at all and it's just it's like not true I mean most of these people it's generational wealth and so they're inheriting a lot of money. letting them make more money off of their money. So like once you have a ton of money, it's it's a lot easier to just keep making money off of that through like investments and buying property and all of that and exploiting people what do you mean specifically by that? I mean the idea that Jeff bezos is a billionaire and yet he does not pay Amazon factory workers a living wage he does not pay the warehouse people. Well, he does not have good conditions in the warehouse a lot of them have recurring illnesses and injuries from working in the warehouse they use something called the camper force, which are freelance workers who travel around. It's usually older people who've lost their retirement traveling around working for Amazon and they like promote that and get people to do that, and it's just like these things that are so expletive and and so dangerous for the average person and they. Could absolutely be fixed but he just doesn't want to and doesn't feel that he needs to right because what your costs are low and those costs include salaries and benefits that you get to keep more money. Yes. So it's a huge issue of wealth distribution and the fact is that right now like we have just unbelievable wealth inequality in this country billionaires are like point zero, zero, one, nine percent of the US population, and as of August fifth twenty twenty, they had three point six, trillion dollars. So this is what I there's no world in which you will spend that much money even if you like. That game You are Jeff Bezos where it's that it's this video game where you have all of his money and then they tell you things to buy and you can keep buying things until you run out of his money and it's the point of the game is that it's literally impossible. You could fix homelessness fixed the. Flint. Water crisis. I mean not not probably not this because it's more recent but fix the post office like all of it, and you would not even break into a little bit of your fortune plus it's not like Oh these people are also contributing members of society and that's fairly paying their taxes they're going out of their way to not pay taxes. So showing every Louis L. there. Yeah. They're banking and other countries like it's it's not like they're like, okay. We're still following the same rules as the rest of you. I just happened to have more money they're like avoiding taxes they're avoiding. Helping our country also right now the way that the taxes setup is that you're basically kind of only tax on your income. Yep, and that's why they're able to like even if they were to correctly pay taxes, they're not being taxed on their actual wealth. Yes. which like includes properties and assets all the things that they own. Yes. So a really important thing that needs to happen is to create a wealth tax where they are being taxes on their entire wealth. Instead of just like their yearly income which they're able to fudge like get away with a bunch of stuff. Yeah. So here's here's something that you you touched on a little bit in terms of the American dream. So there is a thing that we've covered again I'm bad with money, which is my other show called the Prosperity Gospel and the Prosperity Gospel is. Tied to Jellicoe Christianity, but it doesn't have to be a in that sense. It would be most recognizable as people that are members of a church believe that their mega pastor who has like four private jets and his like you know if not a billionaire millionaire. Deserves his wealth because he is a prophet of God and because he's a good person and because anyone who makes that amount of money is spent smarter chosen. And like more deserving. and. That has left the the where it started in the megachurches and has actually moved into broader society and you can see it most. Most appallingly with Donald Trump. Is that because you're like, why would these people who don't have any money vote for this person who has a lot of money and the idea is that because he has money, he is viewed, he must be special in some way he must know something I don't know he must have earned it. He must have worked harder than me and that they don't see that there is a exploitation and evil and hoarding. And, greed behind all of that because they're so convinced that the reason these people have more than them has to be because they're really good people when it so much of it is just generational. Well, that's the thing. Yeah, I mean it's this thing right where you show there's this mean going around what is it Jeff Bezos his garage parents garage and it says like Jeff, bezos invented Amazon in this garage and nineteen ninety-four What's stopping you? Without any. Context of his of his parents wealth of his ability to spend the time working on that of you know all of these things that he had, he had startup funding all this stuff. It's this false narrative that people work themselves to death over and and don't advocate for the policies that would best serve them. Right. There is a great quote that describe billionaires in an aristocratic class that undermine social mobility and democracy. Yes. Yes. Because they they are leading to how much like wealth inequality there is during this pandemic. So many Americans, and he blew across the world are dealing with financial hardships. Especially, Americans are dealing with unemployment. All of this stuff job losses billionaires collectively have made a profit there like making more money than usual. So clearly, something is very wrong like they're obviously like investing in healthcare or certain things and they're profiting off of this lake international disaster. That's not the way things should work that doesn't mean that they're worthy good people and to touch on more of what you said like. If, you show me a billionaire where everyone who worked for them and everyone who who touched on any business that they were involved in was paid super well above minimum wage full benefits thriving super taken care of then I would be like okay. So That's interesting. So they have the money to make sure that everyone in their spear is is well taken care of that is never the case No. No not at all, not at all like, yes. Like bill is like donates a lot of money. But like you said like, why does he literally just step in and save the post office? There right. Why? Why doesn't flinch have freshwater like there's all of these things like if they banded together poverty in America would pretty much go away. I have come to the realization that nobody is going to save us and that they just don't want to their some huge benefit to the status quo for them. They want to look like they're helping they but they don't actually want to help because it would it would affect them. Negatively in some way and they don't want that because you're like, why wouldn't they just step in I got to think that they don't care because the status quo is so beneficial to them that they truly do not care or we have just been fed like the falsities of capitalism where like there's this belief that if you give up too much of your money than like you're you're fucked like you'll be on the street you. Know what I mean like if these people gave up ninety percent of their money, they would still have so much money right. But I can imagine that there is this fear of like well. But what about me? What about my family? What if I if I give it my money that I won't I won't have any financial stability because like as you get richer and richer your idea of what it, what you need to live. Yeah get so blown out exponentially to like the reality of the rest of the world yeah yeah. We've kind of talked about that. Yeah. The like you just lose perspective like where is the one person? Who doesn't I mean out of all of them they've all lost perspective when you're saying all of them, it's so few people. Yeah. Like the amount of people that are billionaires is such a small percentage of the world and it's The ratio of how much money they control, and then how much influence they had astronomical. We haven't even touched on how being a billionaire. So much influence in election yes. Like it's called, dark Get like you gotta read this book by Jane Mayer called Dark Money It's terrifying. Their hands in everything they're controlling so much stuff, and so potentially, that's why they don't want to with the money because then they lose that influence in that control. Let me tell you there's a part in dark money. It's talking about Obama's inauguration and how like how amazing it was, and then the end of it is like the inauguration was incredible in historical. Obama took the stage on a carpet paid for by the coke brothers. And the point is, is that like even if it's the Democratic Party benefits like liberalism, the undercurrent of everyone being bought is like you can't escape it. Yes. So I think that the things that we can do about this is supporting the wealth tax moving forward and making it clear that that's something we want also not letting these people get away with tax loopholes not. Letting their corporations get away with tax loophole. You're never going to be a billionaire tax, the wealthy that was my final line. You will never be a billionaire and just reassess everything. We're not all set up to start from the same place like so many people like we discussed are set up so many paces behind other people that they'll never catch up. Yes, like it's just Me Go to you WANNA come on in and yell about. Income inequality. I never yell actually I can't remember a single time. I've yelled at another person in your entire life and my entirely yeah like I get angry and I, take a lot of the things that were brought up in his episode. Make me very angry. But it also just had this feeling of sadness about. Long standing very carefully woven inequality. You just feel like this isn't a place where people are supposed to live well, Oh yeah and yeah. Yeah. The system is rigged against. So many people who, yeah I mean it's also hard because it's so baked into our education system things that are so wrong. And That is also on purpose, and then I also really felt when he was like, well, the Republicans used to be really good on race issues and then this happened, and then like we think of the new deal as being something amazing that like saved everyone from the depression and like helped so many people but it actually seems like it only helped white people and then led to all of this redlining and it's just like. It makes me at once again, the radicalization of Gabby done. It makes me be like, No side is good. Every every federal government every angle of it has been purposefully racist certainly sounds like it. That's why okay. There's a bad with money episode about reparations go listen to it I really think when he was talking I was like reparations is I think really the answer there's actually this. This is maybe a little off topic, but there's this. Lauryn Hill Song that I I've been listening to for a very long time. Everything's everything. You guys know it unsure if the listeners aren't too young, they might know it. There's a light at a song that I heard now shown in it's evolved for me as I've gotten older, she says. It feels like we we lose the game before we even start to play I remember feeling that growing up. As a teenager feeling that as in my twenties feeling that now my thirties and it's meant something different the more I learned about myself and more about how far I'm able to succeed or move about the country or my ability to feel free I think this is such an interesting time to be quarantined into learn more about. I don't know I mean we're all sort of in in different ways stuck where we are because of the circumstances. Most of us are limited. How much we can move forward in we're having to examine these these things about the way the world is constructed. I think it's also a time where people can really educate themselves about what's going on about what's happened about what we need to do to move forward. When he was like look, we know what policies to implement. We just haven't. In some cases the solution is there. It's just about actually acting on it. How do we get I? Mean it's like how do we get them to to act on it because it's more frustrating to be like, oh, they know what to do. They just don't do it same with the billionaires it's like. We know needs to happen and it's just like not happening it it. It makes me think that because of all of this stuff it just it just. Made me think which I understand being very late to the game on this. It's all on purpose. It's all just. Keeping status quo they know what they need to do. They just don't do it. And that's any administration that's like more and more and more apparent. I. Think that's why it's so important to get more progressives on the ballot. It's it's activism. It's like like you said, it's making people uncomfortable. It's not letting them continue the status quo. Yeah, and also you know it's interesting that he was talking about wanting a new civil rights movement when I'm sure and I don't know if this is true to Meka if that's frustrating because it seems like the idea is that white people are waking up to this when like I'm sure you're sort of like, yeah. No fucking Duff. And like they're like, where's the new civil rights movement? It's like it's probably been here people just like our didn't give a shit yeah. More validated when they're people who aren't lack apart part of the movement, it's a bit frustrating but I mean it's not new I. think that's another problem. Is that these feelings? Even the we probably heard aren't really new it's not well for me it's not new it's information that so so deeply woven and has so many broad effects that feels in possible to root out where it starts. I think that's the most frustrating part is like sort of taking these feelings and figuring out ready in start to fix. The route, all these things that are happening that caused so much oppression and so much inequality. That's. Most frustrating. Yes. Absolutely. Lot. Episode but. We read it. I will rate it seven out of six Lauren Hill songs. I will read it eight out of Eight. There is no world in which you will see me again. To Meka. Yeah, I say. Five out of five bro Planks nearly house between Gavin Alison. I. Love Her do that more artifact. And thank you. Father for playing hypotheticals Oh. Thank you so much to to my dad can raskin for playing hypotheticals and thank you to Richard Rossi for being our guest just between us is hosted by Alison Raskin and me Gabby done our engineers Brendon Burns he also composed are killer theme music our producers to make weatherspoon in our executive producer Chris, Bannon and Josephine Martorana just between us is production of stitcher. Hi Dad he's GonNa. Listen to this one. Stitcher.
Panic With Sarah Marshall, Working From Home and Our Divided Nation
"Swing i'm asking. I'm a writer director and big time. Berber oh my god hi. I'm gabby don. I'm a writer by thon by icon wink Lover of matte lipsticks. Oh yes you're wearing one right now. Looks nice. I only get. Make up from drag queens. I only people you can trust. I mean they're like their makeup their lines. Yeah they're mingling. I think they're the only people i can trust. Lipstick and makeup. The last i'm really. I'm learning a lot about like the color. Jones that makes sense. Like i think like pinkston reds are where it's at for me. I mean it's like of course they would know the most about makeup they wear they wear it more than their job. Does her job so really shot up to tricky cosmetics. Kimchi she just all the Drag we makeup lines lists edwards. All you guys are saving my ass. So i appreciate it. This is just between us. Variety show filled with heartfelt advice ridiculous games and brutal honesty. Can i tell you about homophobic. Email plays do warning because this upset me so much worse because it came from someone who is very well meeting but it was like a professor to school. They emailed me to ask about speak in their class as representative of the gay community and the way they framed. It was like we want to. Have you come speak because the gay community is portrayed a certain way in the media and we want you to show our students that it's not that way now it's like okay. When what way. I'll say this is where i got really triggered a panic attack is he was like you know the thing that we see about gay. People is direct quote flaming drag queens at pride and that we just want you to come and show that gay people are regular folk and this person. Put this in writing so it'd be there forever. Great this is Some of my family knows essentially so it's not just like a random cold cold ask I did not realize that. I still had that level of reaction to homophobia that i like you kind of think like well shirley i've experienced at all like grown. You know what could possibly. But like i think it was worse because it came from someone who absolutely thinks he's a good person in like does isn't like it's not like as clear as somebody like screaming the f. word not fuck the other f word at me out of the car which is confusing thing to happen to a gay woman but whatever verse like someone who like means well and then. They said that as part of their lesson plan they tried to send people to places they would normally go and to one of the things they mentioned is that they have sent homophobes to gay bars and that also causes me that a panic attack because the i the gay bars suggests sacred safe space for queer people. It's like the only place that we can go like your street person in a in a gay bar like you're you're blast not mean like you can go have a great time. Love that for you. it's not about you. It's like a safe place for this particular group and two and there's one thing to like sending straight people to gay bar but it's another thing to like student. Who's like an active homophobia and send them to gay bar like which is just so centering of your own experience. It's more important. That is home of old. Have this experience than it is for the gay people in that place of you'll save into a whole idea that really like jarred me and made me have like this very terrible feeling in my stomach and there was also other stuff where like he talked about how the classes like us a safe space for all kinds of conversations and sometimes they say the n. Word like only things. Yeah yeah and allowed to say what his job is. Is professor of multi-ethnic reporting why you heard it here first folks. This man is a professor of multi-ethnic. Reporting and i struggled a lot. Because i need. I'm talking about on the podcast so whatever but i i. I didn't know what to. There's like other things at play here. He has a child who is trans am friendly with and he mis gendered the child in the email like i'm upset you've been just like yeah. Of course i just said. I am really good fit and didn't really express why and i. I even hesitant to be talking about a year and like call whatever calling it out here because of the kid. I don't want this person's kid feel embarrassed. I don't want this person's kid to to feel like oh my god. My dad's out here like whatever. I'm not sure what the thing to do is. I've thought about reaching out to the kid to maybe sit have been talked to their dad but i don't wanna put that effort on them. They are in a relationship with each other. Yeah i think they must not have any idea that that's gonna science right and so you know i was talking to. My friend was like i. I think he's a tonight show. It sucks that percentage shitty dad. I don't think they do like. I think they're great. Dad like i think their dad is like has always been in. Their life is a good person. Like i think the dad is a really good dad and those chasing you can if he's misusing his own child. I don't want to say how i know. The family family like very involved in their lives very like loving like is on their instagram pages. As like a good dad. You know what i mean. Those two things can coexist dach- in like also like make these missteps that then. I'm like wasn't intentional. Like maybe it is my job to say something but also the added thing like. Oh my god. They're teaching students and It was like maybe one of the most stressful lean outside ever received. It made me so anxious. One to eleven anxious anxiety immediately can always take a few more days and figure out if you want to do anything else about it. You don't have to decide right away. Yeah i mean there was. It was just like hit after hit after And i got really heated talking to my mom. Because i was like you. Don't like those drag queens at pride you don't like me like you don't like flaming quote unquote gay men. You don't like me right. There is no like we are. I am not better than anybody. I am not like normal. I am not here to represent like normalcy. Like and also like the idea of wake juxtaposing gay people with regular people like like i know like and i was trying to like one of the good ones like fox doesn't even exist. It's not it's a idea. And like i was like no absolutely not i think even in the gay community sometimes there's division especially as i'm like currently found presenting insists. I'm like you know whatever ends like. But i'm like if you don't like like if you don't like the black trans sex worker. You don't like me period and and done with there is no no. There's no discussion here that it's the same not in our lifestyles or in what we're struggling with or anything like that like the people that you're disparaging as being like but they're not like you like white successful. We you know in a career that we deem acceptable queer. Like no you dat persons closer to me than you will ever be in line. No an like. I wou just like me so upset so a just wake i. Yeah i i don't know and then like is the mistake that i i don't like do speak the class. And just talk about how this is stupid and this is bad. I feel exhausted. Yeah i mean. I think you take a few more days to figure out what you wanna do. I think there's also an avenue where you tell the university just. Because i don't like that. This person is in a position of power and is influencing people's ideas and knowledge in education and also protect yourself so if that's to traumatizing. You absolutely don't need to do that. Yeah and if that's also just like you feel like a a a personal issue in that you have this relationship with their child than you also like you don't have to do anything can just let sit with it and see if you decide to do something. He also described his work as a reporter as covering the hood. I'm sorry when disney trigger warning and it just keeps going. Let me tell you it was. It was the greatest city of person who thinks they're cool in good. You know one of the things. I'm learning in school. Learning a lot about micro aggressions micro salts and that's obviously all For like they don't realize that they're being so unbelievably hurtful and offensive and part of it is what we can do is use our privilege to call them out. You know because a lot of time in which is privately be like hey man this is not great versus like me posting the email on the internet. Which you post thin. I i i just have the issue with him being a professor like so. That's where i feel more energized to let this be known that this is not okay. The only reason really the only reason is because of their trance kid. And i don't want the kid to have any backlash so maybe you just talked to privately. Say right an email explaining your reaction in all the things that he said that were incorrect and hurtful and wrong and you know and and hopefully if he is the kind of person you are describing that he does love his kids that he is a family man. Like maybe he'll it'll be kind of a come to jesus moment for him. Maybe no one ever. Maybe people have been cringing at what he's been saying for years but no one's ever said anything. Yeah i think it's the type of person who is a liberal is a good person like is what but has this idea of themselves as being like cool in the sense of like. I don't follow the rules in this University says we can't curse but in this class we say the you know what i mean like like i. You know i'm gonna shake you guys up on fucking dead poet's society wherever the that. There's more than that happening because nobody no white person should ever say the and were there any fish. I mean let's not like being like my one of my professors says fuck all the time and like that's great and like she does it as part of what she's therapist to but that's just the way she terai whatever that that's very different than they nosing. The word this is nice secret. He he was it was in. It was like in something he had written about being teacher like it was published article where. He said that he did that while again. Maybe he just hasn't had his reckoning. Maybe nobody has has confronted him about this yet and it sucks that maybe you might have to be the one that does it. But i also think that you're more than capable and strong enough to do so. Yeah thanks anyway. I wanted uplifting beginning trigger warning over. All who knows this whole shows trigger warning on Well also you know. I get yourself a week. I will sit with it for a week and then see what you wanna do in week. Because chances are he'll still be very problematic in a week. We got a great avenue. Bogus daily dose of everyone phobias rampant even among the left. Okay where's cited to talk to our guests. Sarah marshall all about the state candidate panic. I can't wait. I'm obsessed with. This is like someone that i have a massive intellectual crush on me too. I like i have you know. I'm still struggling to find joy. But i'd like to talk to her. She hosts an incredible podcast called. You're wrong about which we'll talk about but later on we're going to be discussing are divided nation and how we can reconcile that so many people voted for trump. This is a fun money. I mean you know. Here's the what you're gonna get from. Jv okay you're gonna go from just devastating drama to to of microaggressions that make you want to vomit up a pit in your stomach right into an international pressure that will surely also be traumatizing into our divided nation. And then sarah. We're gonna talk about satan so i don't know what you guys want from podcast because this one has everything those clubs that's devan describes on. Snl like we have it all. I'm most excited for satan. I gotta tell you. But i got question. International question robin scotland. How do i find balance and routine while working from home. I'm struggling with endless. Monotony of working from home. I was sent home from the office on the seventeenth of march inhabitants. Set foot in a workplace ever since during that time i've changed jobs and have started at a new company fully remote given the new lockdown restrictions being introduced in my country. It's unlikely that i'll be back anytime soon. I'm really starting to struggle with the groundhog day. Effect of working from home. I feel like i do the exact same thing every day which is making me feel very flat and depressed. It's hard to escape. The endless dishes in our flat gets messy easily. And it's a small one bed which can get me down as i don't like disorder. How do i one come to terms with the fact that this is the new normal and to find some balance and routine whilst being stuck indoors and add a bit of excitement back into our lives after seven months of work from home. So as somebody. Who life imploded. Terry locked out on a lot of what i you know. I i know that in my journey to heal from this break up. I don't even want to call it a break up. I want to call it being left. That allowed urological it. Whenever you feel like break-up implies that there was some mutual decision making in there absolutely was none. I will say as i process being left by my fiance to give it the gravity that it just I have thought a lot about how much of this is because of quarantine. How much of this is because we were stuck in the house just twenty four seven and there was so much time to ruminate and there was no time apart and i'm not going to get into six of of what i think happened but it's not my story to tell but i do understand how this can be incredibly disruptive to your mental health how it can make you question. Life is life worth living. Do i wanna live. I wanna live with this person like feeling so trapped getting to a point where like you. Don't get excited for anything in that normal. You know And so i would say that i often. I've said this a thousand times and i'll continue to say is that you need work hours so i think especially with this new work from home format. Everyone knows that everybody is just sitting around and that they're accessible at all times or that i. I think it's really helpful to still act as if you're going to the office and leaving the office so even if you have just like an area where you work and then you don't sit there unless you're working And you can kind of create that as your as your boundary of like This is my work area. When i'm not there. I'm not at work even though technically it is the same room. Don't work in bed so get out really do. Don't i work in bad. don't do that. I drink a lot of coffee all day long. Don't do that basically my it. Don't what i'm doing. I will say one thing in terms of having work hours. Is i wake up and shower. I do my hair and hang do my makeup. I have gotten in lockdown. i've nailed the wing liner. Like i am i am nobody's nailed wing wider. But like i you know. Change the world but i just think like i have become. I mean. i'm not. You're saying whatever your thing is but i have like gone full hard at like Like hot girl shit. Where i'm like hairs like curled. I might shy shower. I'm like you know. I'm going to do like white strips and whatever like just like trying to link finally down and i feel like garbage i feel like fucking garbage i get up and i like get dressed up for nothing for no reason at our ballgown right now. I don't like and like that. Is i think helps break up the monotony. Even if anger discuss ridiculous but even if it's like today is a blue shadow day and tomorrow orangi shadow day who can say and like just like i also take pictures so that i can look back and be like no. That was the difference dale different. I had green I agree in colorado. Whatever it is. Not i. I think i think it's really important to have still establish things to look forward to. So even if that is just like on friday nights you know that you order. Take out and you'll be you know they take tuesday's right like bachelorette kind of still try to create events in your week. That new different and that feel like something you can look forward to be like getting food from your favorite place. It can be like ron. Calm saturday nights. You know just like like social events even though yes it is just you. And whoever you live with like would be on skype. Yeah exactly and watch. your candidates. Drag race withdrew over facetime. So it's a lot more work but in another way you're not doing the commuting you used to do feels like oh this is like so like exhausting but also it was exhausting to be social to you know we were just more used to it. Yeah i agree with you about work hours. I think like rights okay. So here's the plan. Wake up shower. do your hair on some. i would add in. Exercise is capable of doing that. I really recommend for me and my mental health like i can't not exercising and so obviously everyone's ability is different. But i think if you are able to depending on where you live go for a walk set up some sort of like little workout. You can do. There's a free videos online. I think adding a workout into your routine. Even if it's just twenty minutes a day can help a lot because then you're not going to get a stir crazy in your body. I will not be working out. But i will be trying on forty five different shades of lipstick. Whatever it is then you wake up. Then you do that you put on an actual shirts and actual underwear broad pants. Whatever whatever you wear. I is i. I got my boobs done. And i still wear a bra but i sports bra but what are so then. I went underwear in eight months. I think i'm done with underwear. What's well you weren't wearing underwear before locked. I was wearing underwear. I wasn't wearing a bra now. I don't wear a bra. It's fine. I'm going to give a controversial state right here. Why do you need both underwear and guess. What you know is hygienic reason but i just wear pants and i never really wear my pants. Maybe that's part of why i feel more comfortable doing it like i wash my hands every time i wear them and so i'm just like the better because i my bustle and i don't like it. Thank you this is the what is the one stance. You and i can definitely agree. I fucking anti underwear. Here on the podcast. You don't need your wearing pants. You don't need underwear and you thank you. There's some people it's more comfortable for some people. It's more comfortable to wear underwear. This is a situation where it's less comfortable for me. So i mean that personal decision but i'm not saying that everybody 'cause i know people are going to be like i love to wear underwear if i wear underwear it's uncomfortable for me and then i have my group all over we'll get into another time The point is is that you have to have things and also the other thing is is that yes you get you. You ended at five o'clock or whatever you're done and then when you're done you start to make dinner time. Then you make dinner then after dinner. You have your designated movie or activity of the evening whether it's the puzzle that you're doing or more. It's wrong calm wednesday or you know. We're watching the bachelorette on tuesday. Whatever it is like you gotta you gotta make your own sketch and it has to be air tight. And i think you also need to remember that this is not forever so almost look at it as just like this. Fanciful time in your life where you can just like. The rules are so different. This is like instead of. I think we've been in it for so long that it feels oppressive but there is some weird fund three to the fact that like we have less obligations outside the house like we can just like sort of like read a book all day. If we want to depending on the saturday you know like an ab look for the things that make it more fun in that like actually like look big picture and be like. Oh get to do this again. Hopefully boy cleaning make it clean up sunday Yet get in new stick to it. Up sunday sunday cleanup day. Wake up do your makeup start mopping to hold yourself accountable during this time and it's very easy not to but you really have to and i think again like you have like your day where you clean and like you do it it. It's tough but i also cut yourself some slack. Like if he were having a great time right now. That would be strange. The only person. I know having a great time is my dad because he retired last year and so this is his first year not working and like the world is literally falling apart when my dad is like well at least i'm not working can raskin of this podcast as well. We heat underwear ken raskin. That's the guarantee if you want to submit your international questions and it's just between us pod at email dot com. That's just between us. P. d. at gino dot com juicy interview with our highly esteemed guests. Sarah marshall welcome back just between us. It's time for the ucs most scandalous controversial segment. Not all podcasting tough questions. This show. We have sarah marshall who Is a writer and is just like one of the favorite people. She's the co host of the podcast. You're roundabout and she's researching a book on the cannock. Panic and Were obsessed with her. Hello sarah polo. I'm obsessed with you guys back right. My favorite podcasting voice. So can you tell them. What you're wrong about is no dryness distinctly. Thank my parents. And i was like. I don't know it's the best. You just have to listen to it. Yeah well i. If you're going to explain it to non millennials i would say it's a show hosted by to millennials about things. They kind of think they remember but that were talked about on the news when they were too young to be paying attention. And and of course there are exceptions to this because we also talk about marie-antoinette voice strike of eighteen ninety nine which you know i barely remember anything about and that's us going back to things that were very known and yet very unknown at the same time conceptions. Yeah it's it's trying to and then talking about you. Know what was the truth of the situation. And what was the meth. And how did we come to believe the meth even when the facts were potentially in front of us which is really true. A lot of the time and happening a lot right now. Yeah it's unfortunately like i'm really. I'm so happy that people have founded and listen to it. And you know that i got to come and talk to people like you about it and it's super wonderful and at the same time you know i'm having that You know the. It's the feeling that jeff goldblum describes geographic park when he watching t. rex. Stop out of the paddock. And he goes boy right all the time that like things continue to pop up do the bill and is always like misogyny or like racism or like i feel like the villain is always like god damage the same shit every time for creditable. Show like this podcast for a slasher franchise. People would not think that it was very intelligent. It's so repetitive patriarchy capitalism. Everyone was dehydrated. Surpremacy those are the four main things. I know that you talk about so many different topics on the podcast. But you've been writing a book about sixty panic. Which is one of my favorite topics and something. I think not that many people will actually know about so can give us the brief description. What is satanic panic. And why is it so important to understand how it happened. Yeah well you know. I think more people know about it now than they did a couple years ago. When i started researching it intensely because cunanan sort of is like the satanic panic. Getting dehydrated and then reconstituted trim news poured into it But i mean essentially the satanic panic began in nineteen eighty with the publication of the book. Michelle remembers which sort of was the spark that lit this massive sort of field of tender That became the satanic panic itself because in the seventy s people had in sort of a mainstream way in america. Become aware of the concept of childhood sexual abuse is something that was happening in significant numbers And this seemed to be this astoundingly. Well kept secret and something that you know the once again. The information was there but people. We're not talking about it or not acting meaningfully on it if they had information and this obviously was tremendously exciting to people and created this sense of intense vigilance at the same time. That boomers were starting to have their kids and starting to feel like you know what happened to me or what. I remember growing up with isn't going to happen again at the same time. There's also this tremendous anxiety about women going into the workplace and putting their children and potentially their young children in daycare in the sense of lake. Should we be encouraging women to not spend every waking hour with their babies like it seems like it's good for everyone but it feels bad to us making choices about society and it seems to be you know threatening the power structures of the nuclear family in a way that maybe we'll take the keys to power away from the exclusive hands of the debt which is actually as far as i can tell what causes child abuse more than any individual factor in the american family. But you know one of the themes of the satanic panic is that we saw that. The home was a dangerous place. The family could become a very dangerous place without anyone noticing and rather than acting. On that information we turned very strange canadian bestseller About a women undergoing therapy that appears to cause her and her therapist unknowingly fabricate memories of her being abused by a satanic cult and this book then becomes huge because this is a new concept for people to read about and then at a preschool in southern california and the early eighties. There's the first example of a social worker who has been trained by reading this book to look for satanic ritual abuse gets a child abuse case and starts questioning the kids at the preschool called mcmartin about the things that she's learned about in this satanic ritual abuse training. And because they're very little kids they will eventually agree with an adult who's convinced that some specific thing has happened to them or one kid will say something or act out a play scenario that the adult will then take to be fact and then the other kids will be pressured to agree with that that it must have happened and if they say no abuse occurred than it's proof that abuse occurred and so this happens in california gets in the news and then just these other cases pop up across the country and that's the beginning of it. That was brief as i could keep it. I'm sorry i want to get into it. So i want to ask why satan like. Why did america choose satan or what. I'm wondering if this is coming off of a charles manson and the idea like there's like you know carving of the satanic Like what is the star. Or like you know the pig's blood like is like is this coming from the seventies and like manson up in shootings. And that's why satan became part of it and suddenly were like this is about satan like how did state in the mix. Yeah it's weird. I mean even the fact that he keeps popping up. Satan's like a bad penny. He always turns up. But also yeah. There's definitely a trend. There's that weird spooky connection between the manson family and rosemary's baby that everyone loves that thinking of like something is out to get us like the other. she was waiting to drop. Maybe was like maybe. That's a reasonable thing for americans to be feeling in the sixties but there's also this very influential book by how lindsay called satan is alive and well on planet earth that is basically explicitly making the argument that a lot of Christians and especially with them. The you know the growingly mainstream evangelical movement in the seventies and eighties appear to believe which is that. The age of aquarius was merely plowing the field for for satan to so his seeds. Because like i we have this culture war. We're like the the sort of satanic actors got everyone comfortable with like astrology chee and billions and beads and long hair and relaxed gender binary. And then he got them to become satanists as phase to select. And then you know. I think it's also extremely relevant that reagan as elected in one thousand nine hundred eighty and he's the president who brings the moral majority into the white house with them and who brings Christianity and to the white house and really a new way. I think one of the the scariest parts of of this whole incident or continued a series of incidents is is the repressed memory aspect rhianna. Because that is that's something that still. I think some therapists think exist in nineteen use hypnosis to try to unlock. And how do you tackle something like that. It's really hard. I mean. I think it's i think one of the things that makes this a difficult concept is that you can't prove a negative is like clear to us in america than ever before this year of of our administration And be the i think. The term repressed memory has become so broad and his used in so many different ways. Really at this point lake there is truth to it like we do have repressed memories like there are things that you just don't think about for a long time and then when you do think about them like i it is overwhelming and you'd you can be totally shocked by the amount that you recall. The problem is that in the eighties. There becomes this theory that the repressed memory is very specific. Thing where your brain has this wonderful sophisticated mechanism. Where like if you experience acute abuse. Then your brain will with assertive beautiful intelligent design squirrel. It away somewhere for your adult self to deal with and then release it. When you're ready for it which i think there can be some truth to that as a general concept but especially this idea of us processing stuff as we achieve the stability that we need to process it like i think our our psyches really know how to manage and survival mode for quite a long time and i think that accessing trauma has a lot to do with being in a place where you can be vulnerable enough to do it your abuse in the home becoming more known in. I think it's easier to believe that people are doing this for satan. Been there might actually be Childhood sexual abuser childhood abuse and also like that the religious aspect of it. What you were talking about really stuck out to me the idea that like we have to protect the children from like because these children are somehow like innocent. Joel like you know in the jellicoe way. Whereas like there's there's any reason and like you and onto you can go to any measure. There's any reason to do this to save the children from what is like next. What is like rather than just like your dad. Touched you at your house in like you have to deal with that in therapy. It's like you were taken to st johns layer. Where needed made you drink blood. Like it's easier for people to deal with that you think to deal with like anything real. I think yeah and i think that i mean. I'm sure that this is a very human thing. And so. I know that it's a very american thing to prefer a huge terrifying unspeakably evil enemy outside the gates to something more complicated. And insidious and less scary and less overpowering and like honestly much easier to deal with Villain inside the gates 'cause like if we're dealing with the issue that most childhood abuse occurs within the family within the home within the group of people but the the child knows and are part of their life Great then we have to of restructure society or we at least have to rethink this concept. That is certainly. I think very present in the early eighties and that it's feels pretty treasonous to even question. The idea that the household is fine. The family is fine. The nuclear family will be fine. No one needs therapy. We're fine we're fine and you know one of the things that i actually find fascinating and i think it is relevant to the holiday season is that there is this spectacularly dudley family mass murderer that happens at christmas of nineteen eighty-seven and saw in the sky named ronald gene simmons who has been horrifically abusive to his family for his children's entire lives has adult children have moved away. Married had their own kids like distance themselves from him. They are actively planning to rescue their mom from him but they all come home for christmas. Has it's christmas. And then he kills them all various medically over a period of. I think three days and it's just not. It's very interesting to me that we have this pantheon of killers in america and ronald gene. Simmons is not on it because you know he did truly one of you know. I think the word unspeakable is like very almost worthless and sort of bandied about by by true crime. But i that is truly the word that comes to mind for that and we just don't talk about it because it's too close to home. I think and at the same time that this happened in nineteen eighty seven. You know there were still places in the united states where people were spending taxpayer money. You know searching and searching for the grays of these alleged dead babies these satan us. We're supposed to be sacrificing like they never found a single one of these collections of remains like the satan in america. If you believe the satanic panic where somehow obtaining and sacrificing thousands of babies ear. No evidence ever recovered this guy arkansas's because sitting around lake killing his his young children on his own property. And it's just not relevant. It's not news right. That's one of the things that is so interesting is that there was no evidence right. The only evidence ever got. Was these confessions from children. Yeah and like you mentioned before. No confession often meant that the abuse had happened right. They had created your sort of confession rather than an accusation because these kids are not freely making these claims like these are the iconic satanic panic cases. They're very similar to each other and one of the hallmarks is that young. Children are being pressured by adults to confirm story and then they got one kid to say what they want and they lean on another kid. And that's how you question co-defendants right. It's amazing yeah so they were doing this to children and then the kids are being ripped apart ripped from their families and then a lot of times the kids then start to believe this thing did happen right and it's just like i think we often think of it as just this like time in history but the repercussions for those families involved like continue to this day. That's what i was gonna say. I was gonna say staff like the repercussions from the satanic panic. I know talked about the preschool. And like what what happened to the people that were accused and all of that. Yeah i mean there. There are many cases There we start with the mcmartin case which ended up being. I believe the longest criminal trial in california history and it just goes on and on and ultimately everyone involved is is acquitted But at the end of you know years and years of you know endless money. Endless time analyst loathing by the community you know this family. This is a family business. Their name is still synonymous with. It's still the most known name this entire phenomenon. And then there's there's cases all across the rest of the country there's people who did go to prison And who only released recently. There's people who remain in prison for satanism related charges. Or i mean the west memphis three was also you know i think kind of the last satanic panic case that really had the kind of mainstream belief behind it where it didn't seem a little. You know a little bit odd even for geraldo and that was in the early nineties but even for the satanic panic which is amazing to me like this is a guy who wrote a memoir. Where he's like i am a full on rapist but anyway and like he apologized for for helping to propagate the satanic panic story like. That's how bad it is. But yeah i mean it's it's something that had. I think that one of the really interesting and tragic things to try and do this conservative math. The ripples of it because there's the obvious stuff in terms of you know families and children being directly involved this and children growing up believing that they suffered abuse that there is no evidence that they did and also then having to tell and retell a story so many times that it becomes you know potentially as real feeling as a real memory which is essentially creating trauma and the mind of a child But then also i mean they one of the things about researching this for a while is that there are these layers of realization. And like one thing that like you know is a very far off ripple but it's something that therefore reached a lot of people is that i went to preschool and kindergarten in nineteen ninety two and at the time we were told to powder sells on the back and that was something that was brought in because the satanic panic and because of this terror justifiably daycare workers felt that if they touched the children they were caring for too much them making get accused of something legs. If a child says something that a parent misconstrued. If you like helping child's go to the bathroom or something like that like they can have a parent who's convinced that you know you have to prove the daycare center is not infiltrated by satan. To believe that it isn't and then suddenly you're in prison and so just this tradition of childcare workers feeling scared to touch the children that they are spending potentially the entire day with like. That's that's low on the scale of farmers. But it's still a bummer. Totally and what. What parallels do you see with. And because i think that we can look for the satanic panic and go. How did this happen. This would never happen again but it is happening again. So how do you think we ought here. We never did. We really leave. Yeah that was my next question was how. How is this happening. Because what's michelle describes in what they describe in on which is like the blood and souls of babies with snakes in their butthole. Whatever the descriptions are what you on saying to sheldon implicate celebrities though we want to stop like and william shatner was there. Yeah i think that to me. The the simplest way to compare both of them. And i would say that we never left the satanic panic. I think we feel like we left. But i think that and the texas chainsaw massacre and leaf out the window of the cannibal family house and you run away and then you got to the gas station that you were at before and that old guy is there. And he's going to help you and then you realize that he's the older brother of the cannibal. Family is gonna take you back to the house in. You're like great yeah i think. That's what human on is. And and i feel like the booth at their hearts are fan fiction about the president. I think that the satanic panic is fan fiction about reagan ultimately and cunanan much more directly as fan fiction about trump. Because it really you know it. It's origin is. This is what you have to believe to believe that our president is doing a good job. And it's this world where he's talking in code and where you know decrypt ing. His statements is the sort of this very sort of bible study like activity. Were like whatever weird idea you want to justify like there's something in that santa's bag for your and it all comes down to a theory of the world where like the person who was obviously actively destroying the country is really saving it and you just have to lake get it this incredibly weird angle to see it and it all ends up and i feel like that's you know that's with the satanic. Panic was about reagan and more broadly about the american family. The american home. It's like dads. Aren't the problem. The way our society is organized relate. It's impossible to flee an abusive situation because there's practically no resources for abuse victims and you have nowhere to go and women aren't allowed to be in the workplace because if they try to put their kids in daycare than we accuse the daycares of satanic lee abusing them. But if you're like afraid of your child being abused champ become a wage earner so you can maybe escape your husband. Who's the real abusive party linked to me. Yeah it breaks down pretty simply in the end to lake. What is the sanest possible story. We could use to exonerate the average american man and it turns out it's like not very same. Oh man and also like the the church of satan. This isn't even their back. This is no there. Yeah the church of satan was founded by anton. Levay wrote the state hanoch bible. And he's like he's kinda crappy guy but the satanic bible is pretty good and i've read in and it's nice and short which i appreciate in a really tax and it's basically yeah. Yeah he's like listen. We don't believe in like a spiritual being named satan. We're not idiots this thing. It's cool to call ourselves that free people out and it's like thank you for freaking all those people out that have no consequences for anyone so they believe in satan no. I just think it's cool. You know it's like. I don't even know what it's like. It's like if i. While i was like looking at night lights and i saw a free kalo nightlight and i was like oh that might be nice for my bathroom. Like i don't worship her. As a god i like the style before we move on. What did he do like how you know. Obviously history is repeating itself for. It never stopped like. How do we get us out of this loop. I really wish. I knew i found it really interesting that we have this moment and discourse right after the election and by discourse i mean twitter But where else am i supposed to be getting discourse and You know this thing of like be kind to the republicans who lost today four years ago if you were a democrat like you felt the way these feel now and it was like wow so lake aside from all the conspiracy theories like like if we if we're in a position where people can't see the difference between like being sad that your guy didn't win the thing and being devastated because everyone you know is in a lot more danger all of a sudden And because like maybe you shouldn't have a malignant narcissist is the most powerful person in the world just in case something catastrophic happens not that it will but if it did You know so. Just this thing were i mean. I don't. I don't know how you're supposed to bring someone around when like you cannot agree with them. That water is wet. I really don't so. I think maybe like to me. It's helpful to look past moral panics. And just be able to recognize the patterns of a moral panic and the pattern of false story that has the ability to capture people. Because i think you know if you chant if it's if it's hard or impossible to conceptualize reaching other people than making yourself bullshit. Proof is nice start. So what was the mother moral panics. That have happened throughout history Oh boy and i think like we did a. You're wrong about episode on sexting. And i think that's a good one because that's when they stands in for like a a lot of different fears that all sort of rolled together and then came to reside under this name of this specific thing. And that's something that we've used to criminalize the act of taking a nude selfie of yourself or you know yeah and i mean something recent. I don't know if isn't moral panic level. But i do find it really interesting. That there's this. Gary robust kind of debate This year about like screen time. How much is too much like. It's going to my screen time and gets this idea that like screen. Time is the standard for like all the worst things you can do as a parent. Somehow you know. And it's just. I find that so i find that interesting because i don't think the screen. I think the screens that maybe we need. I certainly have been watching movies and tv nonstop for eight months. And it's not what i would choose for myself but it's the safest place for my brain to be a lot of the time and i think that it's okay To not expect kids to be stronger than adults in that regard But i feel as if there's something going on with with parents. Fear of lake screen time or the idea that like i am doing the correct amount of screen time and my peers are not like. There's something i think i think. Generally that might not really be a moral panic. But i do think. The hallmark of moral panic is something. Where like something is truly terribly wrong and we are expressing that to ourselves by focusing on something. That's like at best only kind of relevant yes so absolutely walk but yes To play a game show. Oh yeah okay right on fire but let's focus on the game show so busy game called hypotheticals. Even gabby you're my. I'm going to give you a couple of hypothetical situations. You can ask any clarifying questions. You may have then you will tell me what you will do or your opinion of the situation and i decide who's answer. I like better okay. So our first games. America's favorite game show. Would you stay with this. Cheater your partner of five years. Just got his dream job. After his first day his boss insists he go to a bar in go into making out with another woman while his new colleagues. Cheer on. would you stay with this cheater. Who is now making five hundred k. A year sarah. This is really. This reminds me of a question. I posed on twitter today. Which is ended the simpsons past the point of no return. People have very personal answers for because some people say. It's the frank grimes episode. And i think that's the answer of people who lake would end it all right now And i because. I don't give up on anything until it's totally scorched earth and i just wanna go home You know didn't give up on the simpsons for several seasons after that and still think that there are moments and would probably have a big talking to about like what is hiding in your soul that you would do this for your boss of all. People say you're you're willing to work it out. You're not gonna the media. I want to at least have a big conversation about it and figure because i feel like this is to me. This is like the cheating is not worrying so much. Is the doing what your boss tells you to do. Sexually and the people pleasing the. It's too. I think it's too much people pleasing but five years is a long time and i feel like we could work on it if they were willing to like. Go to therapy specifically to talk about like people pleasing and also leave. They want to report their boss for sexual harassment right. like what. Is this like a pattern with them. Like what if we need to take this all the way to the top. Actually and sarah. I will take it all the way to the i hate to break it to you but that girl the bar actually was your partner soulmate so side character thrash away and lake six months and then they'll get together anyway and i can be the actually bartlett bacon of the situation dignity in that who that is the alternate love interest. And while you were sleeping peter boyle says pretty high and mighty for someone named after breakfast me. My mom and i watched that every christmas next game is are you a terrible parent. Your child five decides that they want to legally change their name to foul core science for their so for their birthday. You go through all the legal legal avenues to do it by the time they are six kids. Start to bully them and they want their old name back but you think they should stick with foul core. Are you with terrible parent. This is very tricky. I as soon as you said bellcore suite which my dad told me. A story of my dad's like gold hippie. He told me a story about people. He knew that had a kid that they didn't let he didn't he got to pick his name when he was five. And like the kid didn't have a data bellcore didn't heat. My dad tells the story because the kid pick mark which is my dad's name and my dad floodway but yeah that un-imaginative kid. I know you could do anything right. Isolation so weird. Take a gamble. I think i would. I would god. I don't know i wouldn't make them change it. I would have gone through the whole thing to have them change into falconer in the first place right although as someone who wants to support trans kids like is this kid. Transitioning on to change their name. But that i would maybe try to steer them away from falco How about like how we go with like like ben. Could we do like an aden. You know like for something that shortens bellcore core. What's your insurance to out coarser. Hyphen fell for for for. Now that's a name. I mean. I think that i feel as if the the problem that i have made. In the scenario in my initial overenthusiasm was in not simply telling my child who does not know the difference that i did legally changed their name and then just giving them a certificate that says that and then you tell the school that or whatever or say that they like to go by like i i feel as if you can just lie to them and then when they got bored of it you know or if they did and then if they were really still serious about it and he is quietly do it and just pretend then when they're eighteen you remember that time when you were five. I lied to you but it all worked out and presumably. That's one of the least devastating scenarios. You can describe to someone that way sad this one. So that was you figured out there. That is the correct approach. Right answer is always lied to your kid. Yeah all right. i'm ready for parenthood. Our final game naked neck. Is this person in alien or just rude while getting a covert test. The technician sticks their finger in your nose to gather a sample. they then wiped their finger on a swab. And tell you that fingers are less painful so they did you a favor despite not warning you until the finger was already deep in your nose. Is this person in alien or just rude. Can you just gotta go test duh. God well okay as someone who has gotten a pelvic exam and then had the gynecologist who was not my normal gynecologist. Ask if i would help him. Write his autobiography no. I think that this is typical medical provider. Great nation of ours. No yeah see ending. Just rude not million. I'm saying like not even maybe remarkably rude. Maybe there's like all kinds of books just realized that. Yeah the things that people like. Don't make a scene about what's happening because you feel vulnerable when you're having a procedure done or like i'm sure just unless god i didn't say i would do by the way but i also didn't give him a hard no because it was you know It's a weird situation. Only gone a yeah. Okay i'm gonna say this person is a route. Well sorry but they're an alien with tentacles singer katie. Don't right up there become kind of cute. it's cuter it's it's fair if there if they have more octopus attributes than than it might actually be cute. Yeah it's very cute. But it's also shocking you gotta tell them announce hearing goes up your eyes light up. No it goes up and it unlocks. All of your repressed. Never a canucks panic com fulsome. You got the octopus cogan tests. And then it's all there. I will say as a final satanic panic thing. I do wonder about how much home. Vcr's contributed to all this because like consistently the language people use to describe under a repressed memory is like your memory is like a videotape. And when you play you know no matter when you're recalling it or how many times after how long it's always the same and that's demonstrably untrue. Based on everything we know about how memory works but it is true videos which people suddenly had in their lives at the time and I tried to watch babes in toyland. The other dan i guess cried continually because it reminded me of being the age i was when i last march babes in toyland so i listen to you. Talk one hundred. I know like me at like at tell me but unfortunately there is a time Thank you thank you so much for coming on. I feel smarter just from this episode back. Where did he go find. You follow all of your work. Thank you so much for having me. This was really wonderful. And i feel like my brain has been conceptually tickled by tentacle. So i am mostly findable on twitter at remember underscore. Sarah and i do iran about which comes out on mondays and then i also co host. A podcast called. Why our dads about dad's in film And that comes out on wednesdays and yeah and someday you'll be able to find you in the real world again about actu- we are as well stick around. After the break we'll be talking all about are divided nation very exciting and uplifting. Welcome back to just between us. It's time or and baby baby. Okay so what well. Obviously with our first episode back we we kind of dealt with my personal life a bit but i. We haven't really discussed the election on the part and the fact that we have a new president who is almost eighty And look. I think we're very happy. That biden one and he won by six million votes but it was still very scarily close and so. I don't think that we can like step away from this election and be like okay. Our our problems are gone our divisions go. Ask upstate new york. It's all trump sides. Yeah so what. What do we do. How do we because now biden is coming in being like. Let's unite the nation. He's he's people are trying to appease. We talked about this a little bit with sarah but trying to appease the right and do you think that that is the right approach. Like what do you. What do you think we do from here. I mean i've just tried really even throughout this election to stay local like the the woman that needs yahoo. We had our show as wine. She won the election. I was canvassing for her many times and working for campaign and She wanted and and i've been doing phone banks. Jon ossoff and let me tell you you know what the people of georgia don't want to hear from you calling to talk about jon ossoff Say are. I don't want discourage anyone from phone banking but they're not But you gotta do it. And what do they say to you. I don't want to vote for that guy at or lack. Dobie labral republican. Don't ever call here. Gone or whatever but i do. I do china's your psycho. Because i call it southern accent what i call so that accident that you just did for us know that was like a male accent. You lack Like hammer name's lexi. Tom com from john. Also campaign I'll just go see you. Thought about voting for him in the election There's a runoff on january. Twenty urge ordinary But you know what i mean. I use a fake name. Because i want the people in the south pacific giving away on the secrets. I want the people in the south to to like big positively of me. So i used a mary like the virgin mary cole like this. Is mary calling from the jon ossoff campaign. Where does wondering if you're planning on voting in the runoff on january fifth and you have you heard of do you want to talk about any of his policies And that's how i do it. Have you changed anybody's mind. No right so. This is what i think. This is what i my hopeful outcome is that once biden gets in. We can really work on voter suppression. Yeah and once voter suppression is under control. I think that the majority even if it's a slight majority remains democratic we continue to maintain control and potentially in twenty twenty two. If we don't get it this time with the runoff get the senate and we can continue to change policies and i think that these these trumpers. They're they're not gonna like turn around and be like we were wrong but i think in like ten to fifteen years if these policies have been implicated better and they have more money in their bank account and they have health insurance then maybe suddenly slowly over time. They'll be like yeah. I guess this is okay. No like okay out. I don't know no because young people to yeah. Let me phone banking for ossoff. They chose you the age of the people right. So i'm not just calling like i'm not just calling. I'm calling the dudes in the tinder pictures holding fish. Like calling the twenty three year olds. Who are like you know like. I'm republican adult. Vote for anyone else. So you like trump forever maga- whatever like that too. I'm calling it. And they're twenty one twenty two twenty three like they're not okay So then it comes down to like. What do we do in terms of individuals. Because that's what's so scary. Right is that there's still millions of people who felt this person is good right We will not as good but the other side is evil and we we know justice and we are correct in their. We live among that. They're everywhere like i mean in los angeles maybe not as much but like in in florida or in upstate. New york That's like the guy. The grocery stores like maga- allegation. I guess i'm at a place where i don't give a fuck about about uniting us with them like uniting you exist. I just feel it's like it's like a toddler throwing a tantrum where it's like you just ignore this tantrum. I mean obviously. I can't ignore it because like people's lives are endangered violence and it's horrible but like to the extent that we can of just like like just almost like waiting it out because i think that hopefully like i just think over time like in the way that so quickly it became okay to be so blatantly racist in just this for years. That trump was in terms like obviously people were racist the whole time but there is this sense of like i can. I can get away with this. I can say things. I would maybe not have said six years ago. Hope that like just the way. That like i just hope. That's hide will slowly shift again and that the behavior will become less accepted in less okay and and you know because hope because i don't know if there's any going back that's what i'm worried about. There already voted other like. I don't think they're to go back. I think my fear. And i'm going to speak enjoy existence. My fear is that trump leaves office becomes just a cult leader. Now he doesn't have now. He doesn't have restrictions of being president. Now he can just like literally run like a mega church of zone. Whatever and just like becomes a cult leader and starts his own party full of like sycophants and it's just like an he's and he's just like a cult person with a lot of influence like that's to me going to happen. Yeah yeah. I don't know i don't know because like sarah said like how do you talk to somebody who thinks waters not wet. Like i almost like do we. Just write them off as just like this horrible part of our country that we just like like i also hate the idea of catering to them and like trying to like appease them and make them feel better about the situation and make them feel included because they don't deserve that no. I don't know. I'm not. I like in truly not and maybe you're not either the person to have this conversation because like i truly. I surround myself. Like i dying prioritize safety. My own safety right. I surround myself with with people that are are safe in like. I don't want to talk to. I want to talk to people who aren't going to be around people. it's hard to like. It's hard to like talking about like amongst you right like you're never gonna be like if you're going to be at the grocery store and like the guy is going to be nice to you picking out than than he's gonna say something about like there's been experiences i've had where like the individual interaction is good and then it'll be like they'll say like one thing like that to me. Even that's like. I feel like i'm in john carpenter's they live like i feel like i just like put the glass on. I can see like i. It's scary because what do you do when that's like a among you like it's not necessarily your friends but like i approach people. It is friends it is there there maybe for me It's it's like it's really hard. It's real. I don't have the answer. I've been lucky enough to just kinda like by. Yeah me too. Unless i do want to come in and and share your thoughts. Maybe you have better ones than us. Probably almost always as far as uniting us. I don't know. I don't think it's possible. I'm just laying cook it like three of our jobs. Sure there are beautiful. People out there listening to this. And i'm sure there are beautiful out there in the world who are like absolutely doing it. Like having conversations like uniting us. Like i love that for you We will not be apart. Yeah i don't have the patience like idea literally just like i want them to get in office. I want kobe incurable. I think everything needs to be shut down. I think everybody needs to be given a chat based on your like cost of living because like a twelve hundred dollar check is not going to really do anything connected. I need a strike but like it's on a really do anything for me but in arkansas. That's going to do a lot for somebody so it needs to be like spread out. It's not everybody is check in voter suppression also like something that needs to be handled and get rid of the electoral college and like got be daniela. Who like work does have the patients. And like whatever i will. I will be napping. Now i got mapping your banking. You're doing yeah. I'm doing the work On doing the work like within the community. And like i am. You know. I think like with media's campaign like my goal for it was to reach the people we could reach already A little bit like undecided or already lean democrat. Or you know like. I think those were the people that you could really sway That was a situation where the incumbent. We're not the incumbent where the person is already off. The guy is already in office was a democrat yet but she was the progressive candidate. Some easier a switch. Yeah and so with ossoff. I'm learning that it's it's definitely different. And they they. Don't i mean it's hard to talk to that like i'm from i'm from florida. I'm from the south. You know like. I think i've never really had a lot of luck in like there's these narratives of white. You just have these conversations. They'll change their mind like my entire life growing up now phone making bras off like talking to people that are around. That aren't just like my parents are not really open to the type of change that we like bill is beautiful narratives narratives thinking that they are like he doesn't i i can't think of one instance agree. Then i feel like. I'm so torn right because on the one hand i'm like i don't these people are garbage. I don't care about them. I don't want them in my life. But then i see like you see like people being like you got to. You know the way to make change to reach across the aisle. But i think the way to make changes to get rid of voter suppression and then change policy thing. I can't control this one. Random lady who's like so fucking delusional anymore and the reach across the aisle is more painful for you than it is for them right like just like the email we talked about in the beginning of the episode that will cost me anxiety emotion like time like and what will end and that's guy who's like a liberal probably And so to me like even even interfacing with people like trying to get you know. My parents like friends. The tried to like vote for biden. There's it just was like. There was so exhausting for like no effort burling note for no results no for no pay and and for them they were just like what conversation we've had you know like they're not they don't need to lay down. Do you not mine talk them. it's not i think they think it's life or death for them but it's not it's not to the level that it is for so many i have never. I mean this is my own experience again. I have never interfaced with someone with like super conservative views and had them get the level of emotional involvement that i have the their their concepts of policies are like removed or they like was. The only thing i can think of is is people who are Antiabortion cash those people get emotional everyone else. It's like taxes coming out of like know moral superiority like you know their their arguments are two things that would generate emotion rare as like the left in like my experience. Mice are does because they're fighting for basic human rights for. That's what i'm trying to say. Is that like it's not comparable. I agree and i hate this narrative of like what we just got to have this country. What are we going to do with them and acting like they're the same and they're not saying or not them at all. That's that's what's frustrating to me is like the. They don't realize that they're not the same thing right. And they're it's not politics. It's not politics is just carrying about other people And the media so complicit in portraying it as if it's just two different opinions. I like that is the thing i would love to change. I would love to see the media reported as it actually. Is that a little bit on on election when trump was like. I really enjoyed the Much the chirons that were like despite no evidence trump rigged like that's what it should have been the whole time. It's should always be like that in the dinner. It's going to just go back to what it was before. Now you know if they knew that he was going out of office and it wasn't going to hurt anything Now we're gonna go back to how it was before. This is how people feel safe and that they can trust us. We just have to be just have to be just as hard on biden just yard like three more like we have to like keep pushing like super progressive policy like we cannot go back to being like democrats like that's over. It's done canceled. We're not we also have to recognize it. It's not just about two senate races that like the beats on grounds these local elections for state. Legislators for like you know. These lesser known like senate and congress races like we have to really zoom out and think big picture but then also micro i you know we also think you know we got a victory innocence and we. We gotta run with it. We can't lose momentum of that we can't get like we can't you know feel like oh well we we won. We won because we didn't win. They're still to do Can i tell you something that was not a victory. Sure jon ossoff is married in that. Is this moment talking. I was like ooh in the a huge. Thank you to the judaism for both me. Allison john assad rapist episode. I'm gonna give it twenty out of nineteen alien tentacles. I mean give it a seven out of six Sarah's soothing podcasts voice i shall give it five out of four planned activities despite working from home guys on another note related to jon ossoff. Do you think that. Sarah wants to marry me. Or what's the deal. It's worth asking just between us forever dog production hosted by me alison raskin and me gabby done produced. I'm listening executive produced by brett. Bowen joselito and alex ramsey brendon burns composed killer theme music. So listen to his podcast. Pre sign up for forever. Dog plus at forever podcasts dot com slash plus checkout video clips for podcasts at youtube dot com slash forever dog team or did you dot com slash just between us show and makes a follow us on twitter instagram and facebook at rev adopt teams. Keep up with all the latest dog news. Gb you podcast on instagram. Oh yes very fancy.
Immigration Lawyer Marko Maglich, What If You Cant Afford Therapy and Healthy Relationships
"Yes okay I'm out Raskin. I may writer director and arm shaver. Hi I'm Gabby done John and I'm a writer by CON Bisexual. I got an extra have her. How's that going in this wintertime? Not Good Yeah are you. Taking short cool showers. Is that what you've heard about exit my mom has it. She says she's not supposed to take showers. Yeah but I love odd shower shower. I couldn't do it. Yeah what am I I mean what am I supposed to do. Does it have a prescription medication. No it's just dry and like Yeah ever prescription medication. And then I went out on a limb to try to new face wash. That's a mistake. What kind or should we not saying? Yeah no no no but yeah I like not even that. That's a bad face wash. It's just the thing of like if you change your skin routine even one second in your face decides to throw mutiny got it but you I mean you don't do what do you do so I have a face wash. Okay Sweetie well I use in the shower and then at night I use a makeup remover. Wipe yes see that's privilege. It's it's all genetics when people are like how did why is your skin like that. I'm like I'm lucky. Yeah there's not I can't promote any sort of skin care because it's just genetics. Here's the thing. Well I'M GONNA choose to believe it makes me relatable. Yeah that's just part of me being like you know a human on this earth like I'm just like you celebrities. They're just like us. You know what I mean I get a lot of rashes wear When I was in Mexico I got some rashes on my four arms What it's unclear? We're not sure sunscreen. No I second. We thought Papaya but then thank God. It wasn't that they you're allergic to Papaya And you're finding out now. I love it. So much at age thirty-one sorry Very red often. Yeah my chest gets very red. Yeah yeah but it's temporary. So who am I to complain. No I mean I just want to listen to try to be relief. I know listen acne averages out there I'm with you I'm here eggs Mahathir's hello lucky for us with our little dry patches. You know what I mean it. Just it just makes us humble just keeps us from being a he because otherwise I'd be perfect. Variety show filled with heartfelt advice. I want to say that I'm also. You're you're even if you do. I don't WanNa make it seem like you don't have. You're not perfect okay. Sorry I'm perfect just the way. I am ridiculous game and brutal honesty. We've got a great episode for you this this week. WE'RE GONNA be talking to Immigration Lawyer Marco who my dad set us up with we're GONNA be talking about visas. Green cards people seeking asylum in the. US is the immigration system working Hot Topic. You're not impressed that my dad hooked us up with though that your dad knows a bunch of lawyers. Yeah I've been wanting an immigration lawyer for a long time and Ken Raskin really pulled through on this one and later later we'll be discussing. What defines a healthy relationship? And how can it be different for different people. Oh boy but I heard US Julia. London international and I shall read the British accent. Oh here we go. What else can I do to help my mental health? When I can't afford therapy so I had issues with that one? Can you read the question. which is not protocol? I'm sorry and also a very very bad and Julia wants to know it's actually very serious. Question Okay what. What else can I do to help my mental health when I can't afford therapy huge and so basically she's in the UK so they have free on demand healthcare but unfortunately they ridiculously over oversubscribed and the waiting lists are longer than you can imagine? She says that She went to a GP and she got put on anti-depressants so that's good and she tried to see a therapist. I was told that the union overstretch for mental health support. They can offer me five sessions of CBT but that's pretty much it before going back on a waiting list. I feel like diamond crisis and I need help now but I can't afford to go private for therapy at all. I joined a gym because I know a lot of people feel better. If they're working out I really just don't WanNa feel like this anymore and I don't know what else should be doing. Have you guys found anything that helps you. What would you do if you couldn't have access to therapy? Well I've said this before that literally the only thing that I've done with any money that I've made it is pay off my debts and then go to therapy. You have some cool sneakers. I've gotten some cool sneakers but mostly all of it has gone to like trauma therapy psychiatrist kyw interest therapist. You know what I mean. It's all gone towards mental health stuff. How is that helpful with her expensive? I'm just saying that it's expensive and it's a privilege coverage to go to therapy like I'm up. I have money. That's a privilege. Yeah I mean it shouldn't be. It should be something that's accessible to everyone and not with a ridiculous weightless no totally so in terms of actual tangible things that you can do for me. I've always found a lot of help and understanding why I'm thinking taking the way that I think and why I'm behaving the way that I do. And whenever I can label my behaviorist either related to anxiety or CD than it really helps me because then I don't listen. Listen to those feelings as much so I would honestly recommend like doing some research into whatever disorder. You're struggling with I don't know exactly but let's say that you're dealing with anxiety because that is very common very common so I would kind of like do some research into brings ID. I'd I'd look up what it looks like for other people. I would really does like youtube videos about other people dealing with it so you don't feel alone and I mean talking to us is is a great idea and in terms of CBT which is cognitive behavioral therapy. That is very focused on how powerful your thoughts are and how if you change your thoughts then you can change your feelings and change your behavior so I actually think that this is something that you can do for yourself for many years. I've therapies myself Which A- term armide love to coin one day so a therapist self alison out soon so basically? So let's say like again. I'm making making assumptions saying it's anxiety but let's say that you're feeling anxious right and your heart is racing and you're feeling uncomfortable. I interviewed a therapist. WHO also happens to be my mom's best friend love to keep it in the family and she was talking about this method that she does where she asks the person to locate where they're feeling the anxiety in their body? So let's say for me. I haven't feel anxiety and my chest right so I would put my hand on my chest and I would feel that it's coming in my chest and then I would center myself and I would put my feet on the floor. You know like really sit up straight. Have my feet on the floor and acknowledged that my is happening in my chest and then I would say I'd kind talk to it. I would say like what like what's up. Why why are you feeling this way And so if it's like feeling this way because because because has been hasn't back then you're like okay so this is just my exciting right. No actual issues here. I'm just having like a physical reaction and you can say okay. Understand that you're feeling this way I acknowledge that but you're safe. You're able to cope. We will get through do this. You're not endanger your body thinks that you're endanger my. You're not actually because that's what is. Yeah with depression to you. You have to convince yourself alf like for me I I you convince yourself that. There's no hope there's nothing right. Nothing's worth it blah blah. And that's the same thing it's like your brain working against you. You have to just like sit and be like no. Oh this is not what's happening. Your brain is tricking you. You know what I mean. Or if you're making a lot of assumptions about what's going to happen in the future you have to remember that you have no idea what's going GonNa Happen in the future. You have no control over what's going to happen in the future and just trying to guess and assuming the worst is just harmful for everybody involved I would keep a journal like right down. You know what you're feeling on certain days so you can notice patterns so you can see if there are certain things that trigger us you can see like you know. Sometimes I think think Oh. I've never had a good day. But then you look at your journal and you're like no two weeks ago or like last week. I had a great day. It's just trying to put your brain back in reality and this might sound silly but make sure that you're well fed. Yeah like it's actually a really big part of it My mood is very dependent dependent on whether or not I'm fed and also make sure that you're getting protein. I think if you I would take care of your body as much as you're taking care of your mind so really try to try to eat As well as you can and You're going to the gym. Try to go to bed early. Yes sleepy eating working out. Those are all great things and then it's also just like acknowledging that that the disorder is like a part of you that you can talk to. Yeah and that you can actually have a conversation with if you are in crisis and I've never talked about this. Yes but I've called a suicide hotline. So if you are in crisis you can call a suicide hotline. You can also text suicide hotline so if you have social society which doesn't allow you to be on the phone or you're not sure you could get the words out or whatever They have services where you can text. Sometimes you would think like well well. It's not a it's not a media I don't know I'm not worth calling or whatever but my take on. It was like if I was even thinking about harming myself I was even thinking about it. let's just call. Let's just get someone else to talk. You know 'cause you you talk to yourself and you spiral yourself like get someone else on the line who's like. Hey man this is not what's happening. This is not as bad you know just externalizing it and talking to someone else can be can be really helpful. And I don't know what your situation is but if you have a good relationship with your family and you have some good friends it's okay to say. Hey I need some extra support right now. You know. It's okay to say like wow. I'm really struggling. Like I honestly honestly like I just need to have a night where you come over and hang out with me or I just like if you could check on me every couple of days. That would be great. It's just talked to them. Yeah talk to them and and I mean I think sometimes you can spiral out through talking. Yeah you can't use and you can't use their advices like bond because they're just another person with no no training right so but I think just having. I think that like honestly hugging people helps holding hands helped things like honestly like physical comforts like like. Let's say that you have a relationship with your mom like her getting you. A Cup of tea could really help London Baby. Oh Yeah I was GONNA say t even if you're in America but I bet it will be even more more helpful in London. Yeah people have t there's also you know APPs for their me. I haven't used them but you know the other people really like them. So there's APPs for therapy where you can just have a therapist that you talk to via an APP that could do it immediately for waiters is also like mindfulness APPs. So you're not talking meditation. Your they're giving you some coping skills for sure honestly just like do not the spare I think that while it's unfortunate you're not able to get the therapy that you want and need. I think that you can kind of like macgyver yeah put a band aid on like macgyver. Some skills and Co and learned some coping skills and also know that You're more resilient than you think in that if this is something you want to tackle them and you will tackle it and you will get better. Yeah you're already doing half the work. which is knowing what to do and trying to tackle it and asking for help also I can recommend a meditation. Tation sir. thing on spotify called the honest guys who are great and so Check them out. They helped me a lot. Just remember to be kind to yourself herself which is how we love to end every segment. I know right. We should just say the theme of this show is to be kind to yourself unless you've made a new seat. They kind to yourself. UNLESS YOU'RE A serial killer and fuck off if you want to submit your international questions to just between us pod at G MAIL DOT COM. Oh that's just between US P. O. D. G. DOT COM coming up next to you got a juicy interview with our highly esteemed guests immigration lawyer. Mark o'mara glitch. The ground instance we saw get mouth-watering seasonal recipes and premeasured ingredients delivered right to your door with hellofresh America's number one meal kit. They make cooking at home. Easy Fun and affordable hellofresh cuts out stressful meal the planning and prepping so you can enjoy cooking and get dinner on the table and just about thirty minutes or even twenty minutes with their quick recipe options. There's something for everyone including low calorie editor -Tarian and family friendly recipes every week. They've got more five star recipes than any other meal kit. So you'll get something delicious and can finally break out of your dinner. 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It's time for the juiciest most scandalous controversial segment known to olive podcasting. Tough question today. Our guest ask immigration lawyer Marco. Magli thank you for coming. You're most welcome the floor we get into the real stuff. How working with my dad? Oh yeah it was fantastic. He was a great teacher. I remember he used to force us to sit around one that we can have lunch and prepare pair something that had come out recently and of course you know we were terrified now to talk about at lunch but everybody got free lunch out of it and I've tried to borrow. Oh things from him where I can because when I wrote to his firm they send me to him they say go to Ken Raskin's for six months 'cause he will actually teach you. Oh Aw. That's so lovely. I'm so honored to be his daughter. Oh my gosh well so we wanted to talk to you. We wanted to have an immigration lawyer on on for a while. So can you tell our audience a bit about what you do. Yeah so I am an immigration and you know the the coolest business immigration lawyers which means we basically work on the immigration world. If you're going to immigrate here they're kind of two columns of ways you get here. One is by family ties. And one is by your employment and I work on that employment stuff so I do work for a bunch of different corporations big ones one or small companies or startups or people themselves who have the ability to sponsor themselves. Because they're either you know they're a big deal or are there entrepeneurship starting something but everything that has to do with employment and and that can mean a bunch of things You know I did calls from companies all day long. I WanNa hire this person. I want to bring this person over or please help. I'm concerned that not not complying with those laws. You know when you get a job and you have to go in and When you start a new job you have to fill out that little form where you prove of what your identity is and lies to work and most of us just hand over our passports? If we're American citizens and well those little forms generate a whole a lot of fines so the government who loves to go out and check on companies to see if they're doing those forms right and because they know you need one or two people to do it basically you know. Bring a spreadsheet and tally up a bunch of fines because they find you put something in the wrong box or something like that and can You know collect a lot of money without a lot of work to do that. That's right it sounds like a really boring paper pushing kind of job. I'm filling out applications applications and writing about why this person or that person is qualified to get a visa for like extraordinary ability because they're specialized in a certain something that you know. It's very hard to find stuff like that sounds boring. It's actually at least to me. Pretty pretty fascinating and especially now. Because we're kind of on war-footing everything is being pushed back at. Because if the goal here is to from the government side is really to reduce numbers and and so it just means I have a lot. Fourteen hour. Days is what it means. Yeah Kim's so you were talking about the ways in which the government is trying to limit immigration now and and that's in the news a lot so can you talk a bit about that. Yeah like how has it changed since since trump has taken office. Okay so what they've done is interpret existing rules that are there. There's a heck of a lot more harshly and just make it kind of find ways to make it a lot a lot more expensive and to make these employers have to jump through a lot more hoops pay us for a lot. More time. Spent whatever things that would you know oh to to clearly kind of discourage You know just discourage System that's right it just becomes. He comes too expensive right so In some cases they've done that with no rules but mostly it's just by interpreting rules In a new way they've they started right off by saying you know within a few months of of of coming into office A memo was put out for this. This part of okay. It's all like instant sound like bureaucratic. Maze Hell this part of Department of Homeland Security called Citizenship Citizenship and immigration services. And they're the ones we go to apply for all these benefits the H. One B. Visas you've heard about all these other alphabet letters t. he and e. l.. You may not have heard about them. But they're there and they all have their own requirements and you have people who've been here for a while and they're extending for example but they sent out a mental that said it does not matter what any administration before us did. It does not matter so you might be looking at just an extension for another three years of somebody who's already been here for three years on one kind of visa and seven years of schooling before that you know and you know there's been here for more than a decade or whatever we think they were all softies so you have to look at this though you've never seen it before and apply much higher standards and you know push back wherever you want to push back so what it's meant is everything is send in first of all you get these wildly different results because it's really vague. The guidance from the government is vague. It's really honestly Outside the rules they make stuff up all the time. Yeah I mean I they I send in a petition I stay. Say they come back and how to explain it. It's it's turned the relationship in two very different one between us and the government. It's this contentious thing now so we send them something day right back and it's like they're trying to get away with something they say well you sent ABMC and and that didn't prove anything and then you have to come back at them and go. Well I think you missed A. D. F. G. H. I. N. J. which I also included Th that kind of stuff didn't really go on before and you have to point it out. It's sort of like they're they're bullying and you have to believe back. Have you seen more success. From people from certain countries versus other countries. That's interesting. It's it's indirect They sent out around the same time. Another memo. That said be particularly tough essentially on the computer programmer programmer and computer types of jobs. A lot of those jobs are held by people from you know India Pakistan. Yeah that's right that part out of the world and so the result is that a lot of people from that part of the world. Even if they've been here for years or getting denials having to go oh home sometimes home for a while before you get something together and refile of course. That's only in those instances where you know. The employer cares enough have to spend money on people like me not just once but to three what however many times it takes to get the person so it seems it out so so the result is yes. People from certain countries have more trouble. I mean an example of that is if you're on one of these temporary visas and you're also trying to ultimately immigrate it's important say that a lot of people come over and they do schooling and then they moved to a temporary visa visa might even be here for a while but a lot of people still. They don't want to stay here forever. They might actually spend some years here but they go back for the ones that are staying and they decide to stay if they are in the Green Card Q.. And we have a per country limit on how many people are GONNA EH emigrate each year or get a green card. Well what that means is you're on one of these temporary visas. You only get a certain number of years. But if you're we're going for a green card you might be subject to like a ten year backlog on the Green Card which is way more years than you're giving so then they have all these exception adoption upon exception that they've built so that you can kind of keep stretching out the temporary visa and the spouses of a lot of those folks they are allowed to get employment authorization. They're not allowed to get employment authorization he just temporary but if they're on track they're allowed to get employment authorization and this government since they came in has been trying to knock that out since they came in first of all. They know. It's going to discourage a lot of people from staying right because they're back down to one income so they don't want the people who are married to people on the Green Card list to be able to work exactly that's right. Vat Falls huge disproportionately again on women from that part of the world because because of the per country quotas quotas we have by far the ones that are most backed up or people that are born in India because the numbers are bigger right. So it's like the pig moving through the snake right like the more of those you have from one country the more pushes everybody down the line. Because you've got ten times as many people as you have in the quota so it ends of being the really disproportionately affected people are people from that. Part of the world and their spouses are unable to get work authorization. They he hasn't been stopped yet. They're trying to stop the rule but the way it's being discouraged now is you can for example. There's a rule. You can only renew your employment card up just six months before it expires. But they take eight or nine months to renew the card on my God. So it's all very like insidious because they can't get their way and actually changing the laws. That's it I mean it is also 'cause they're in a bit of chaos like this government is asking these officers to do way more stuff without really any the increase in resources so I think honestly is too that they simply just can't get all these things so what happens in that situation while people often lose their jobs right if there's a woman on such an employment card I mean. She gets to the point where hers expires and she says. I'm sorry I'm you know you're supposed to show up than to do that. Same little form I talked about. You know we have to show up and show that we've still got work authorization and they can't and you know. How long is the employer going going to allow that to happen? So it's just one of many little pieces that discourage people and then people have left and this is markedly different friend from prior administrations. Yesterday's we've always had problems with backlogs. There's always been problems with suddenly some kinds of applications taking a long time. I started in this right after nine. Eleven so there were big backlog then and then people from the Middle East and various places. They'd be applying for citizenship. Listen ship and instead of waiting eight months for an interview they were waiting three years You know things like that would happen so I've seen versions of it but this is really concerted across the whole board and everything is taking a really long time and obstacles are just being thrown up everywhere and it's racism you know is it. The thing is well. Okay so the the spouse were the couple is Norwegian. Aijun will never be stuck in that situation because they're never going to exceed the per country quota right so they will have had their green cards a long long time before the folks from India so that it has a racist Effect but you know I have to say when I'm filing H. H. ONE BS for Financial analysts from Germany who were at the top of their class at the kinds of schools. You would have heard of I. I still get the pushback that says you haven't proven their specialized. You know okay. So it's really more. It's more Zine Athena Phobia. It's a phobia but you you know you can't make it's hard to tell I mean Stephen Miller is kind of making a policy right for driving a lot of the policy if you've heard of him. Oh Oh yeah yeah you know. We know about his leanings. Because of certain emails that have recently been released meal kind of knew them anyway. You know so you can't make overtly racist policy but if you make difficult for certain occupations that are generally populated by people from certain parts of the world. Okay you're GONNA have that effect but I don't know that it's then it's over that I can see it having effect and I made a lot of you know I go out to clients and I do. I do something doctors in you know. And everybody gets fifteen minutes with Marco you remember Lucy. The doctor is in. I'm showing my age against Charlie Brown. Yeah Charlie Brown and Lucy so I go to. The doctor is in one after another person comes in very anxious right because they they. They've really built something here at this point and the message is it doesn't matter and they're they know people who have had to go home after whenever it is a number of years and they're going back to place where they haven't built their contacts write contacts are here now and it's very anxiety provoking so obviously the purpose of these policies that you want companies to hire Americans right that would be the government's explanation of trite and the laws are designed that way you know the to make it so you know like if you transfer someone in on something called an L. Visa you have to it. Oh you did. It has to be because you can't just you can't get easily that particular kind of specialist here and the idea is that it's the kinds of people where if we let those people come in it's actually going to generate. Hopefully more Americans work right The same thing with the H.. One BS their rules there to make it harder and it's supposed to be harder to hire the foreigner. You have to pay a certain amount you know you're required like you're required to pay the lawyer's fees for an H.. One B. Visa when you can't pass that that cost onto the foreign national you have to jump through some hope so they make it tougher and yes it's not supposed to be just like hiring an American or just as easy. It's supposed to be tougher. Sure do you see that. It's working like it is helping American employment or is that something that's too tough even call on the macro side and what I mean anybody the macro side like in the big picture it may be. I mean I think it's cutting both ways because the companies that can afford to say oh to heck with it. I'm just going to set up shop somewhere somewhere else. Are doing that more. You know because they want to get who they can get and they don't want to feel like they're compromising on that so there are companies that can afford to are setting up stuff in Canada. Canada has responded by saying. Hey Wow okay. We're going to be really open. And they've Added some visa classifications that streamline the ability for people to get those visas in Canada so that they can say to companies. You know I mean if it's so tough down here to get who you want. Come on up to Canada. It's it's you know. I bet that benefits the Canadian economy. I should think so I mean. That's that's why they're doing it right so it was actually doing the opposite. We're losing business by having these strict rules. We are losing business. Losing some business because of Because companies also want predictability. You know and and it's it's hard when you can send in exactly the same petition and get two opposite results because partly because of this vagueness it seems maybe who knows. Maybe some offices are taking the cue to be aggressive more than others are. I don't know I mean I've had instances for example where you send a like there's a kind of a block filing that you do with a bunch of petitions and there were like thirty thirty of them and we got okay on most of them and then we got pushback on another group and we could tell by the little codes at the bottom that the the pushback was all from the same officer so obviously taken the block divided up amongst three or four. People just depends on who you get. It's random cam depend on who you get uh-huh harder tougher you know but the standards are like toughened up but there is. There is some variance there. Say I ask you. Maybe you're not qualified qualified but an immigration lawyer in someone who works in immigration the situation at the Mexican border with the separation of families and all of that is that something that is unprecedented. Is that something that you guys are concerned about. It's not something I touch a lot and so I can't talk a lot about it but It is you know the trump administration will be the first to say. Hey you know. Obama separated families as well but it's a little deceptive because what they did was criminalised silom. Yeah they they had criminal charges for for folks crossing the border and what that does is. When there's a criminal charge you can separate a family? And the Obama Administration didn't criminalize. The trump administration is what made it criminal they changed. They changed that policy because the law was sort of always there but then it wasn't enforced. I until trump right well again I think it's a different way of enforcing it but I think yeah I mean it's it's a little out of my daily work. I'm afraid so I don't want it so to speak irresponsibly on it but It's Kinda true at least the illustration I just gave. You is something I do know so. That's the way you take something. That's it's there as a possibility and enforced to the different way and it can result in the separation of families a lot more separation of families. And then I've also seen that immigration judges are just sort of quitting has. Is this news well. The morale is low A.. A Jeff sessions was the attorney general for Awhile and he's gone but he hired a bunch of New People. He wanted them to behave a different way. He also got in and kind of changed. A lot of law himself like what what happens in Immigration Court is a Lotta Times. They follow something. Something called precedent decisions. which are what they sound like? They come from important court decisions that have come before the immigration courts are all under the Attorney Attorney General. They're actually all really part of the president's bureaucracy so they're not like courts you think of where the judiciary you know where we're federal courts parts can actually Are separate from. The president can actually stopped him the way that they've been doing on travel ban and things like that. It's a court system. That's administrative eight of so at the end of the day the President or in this case his attorney general is the boss so basically he just went in and took some precedent decisions Asians and he didn't like and just negated them rewrote them. So this is not the rule anymore and appointed. I know it's hard to think of because we think think of these courts as having an independent being but immigration courts don't immigration courts are actually all part of the executive branch just like the AG AG is part of the executive branch he's appointed by the president. He works for him And then he in turn appoints the judges that's right ultimately yes So you know this. Jeff sessions had training sessions for immigration judges where essentially said. I don't trust these immigration lawyers. They're just trying to figure out tricks. So there's just a lot of in tag like the the relationship is antagonist like I've had to wrench my head around from being like you know a person applying for benefits for companies to. That's all I said the beginning it's more like we're on a war footing I send it out there. And I'm ready for a fight. And he's sending their answer back and the first thing. I'm doing like aggressively going through finding all of the things that they say wrong. And actually I pick out grammatical stuff and all of that to point out the fact that I say they can't have read this very closely because you know. Look look what they look how they misquoted this or did that. We're all just attack each other now it's kind of a little bit of a microcosm of what we're seeing right in the country. We're all of server. We're all contentious against each other if there were to be a new administration. How quickly do you think the stuff could be? Reversed can take a couple of years. I would think to get new judges into reverse all the backup and everything that's right. I mean the judge thing I mean you still have a lot of good judges judges and on what I do in terms of these policies that that they're following At these autism these big service centers that you pack your application off to. They have to go through a process to push through policies or their habits. The bits that are going to have to be changed. There's so much of it That it's not GonNa happen right away on the other hand. These changes happen so quickly that maybe that should make us a little optimistic. That's true you know it depends. How quickly how an administration? What kind of a priority are they going to make it? Um because you have to throw thought and bodies audit a lot at it a lot of time and effort into them into this administration. Just kicking out these memos going out putting people in all the offices were like envisioned hanging over people's shoulders take to get them to do things in entirely different way than they've been doing it because they obviously made a focus on that so there are a lot of things in new administration would have to deal with a lot of areas love different parts of immigration a lot of different things. So what are their priorities gonNA be. How quickly would they put just as much energy into Getting this stuff back to normal or you know maybe a new normal uh-huh versus the other priorities. They would know they would focus on. Are we losing out like in terms of people wanting to come to the US or feeling mm safe in the US like are we losing out on people coming here anecdotally. I've heard people say that you know they're we're not really sure how welcome they are. Welcome they would be. However that's just here and there I I still think that there are people who wanna come here? There's still so there's still a sense that there's opportunity here that they would rather be here if they could but they go to other places now because it's easier easier. There's still this idea about him. And this sounds Corny but there is still this idea about America that it would still be the first choice. It's just that the first choice. It's just become so difficult and people don't WanNa go someplace where every couple of years. They're gonNA worry that they might get. They might not be renewed this time because the more you invest the much more painful it becomes to their nasty leads yeah. I think that we are probably losing out on innovation and People that could benefit our our society and our economy if to take a capitalist view of the whole thing you know as share from clueless said it does not say. RSVP on the Statue of Liberty on that note would you like to play a game show. Sure Okay Great. I'm still processing everything you said and horrify but we have to persevere. That's why I tried to take to clueless to lighten the mood. So hypotheticals is a game show or are you and Gaviard contestants. I'm going to give you some hypothetical situations and you guys can ask as many questions as you want. Then you tell me what you would do in those situations then and I decide if you're right or wrong completely arbitrarily so sort of like it's me against Gabby yes yes we are adversaries right now. Think of of me as an immigration judge okay an impartial one Nanno incredibly partial. Okay Okay Okay so our first game is would you lie or tell the truth. You hate your neighbour a lot. One night you see their child sneaking out of the House and getting getting into someone's car with a suitcase the next morning your neighbor asks if you've seen their kid they can't find them. Would you lie or tell the truth for context context. This neighbor has called the police on their blackmail man three times for Trespassing Aka delivering the mail to the mailbox. Okay so the person's persons kid we can assume is like leaving because the parents are conservative and And Racist Yes okay we can assume okay micah thoughts so just because they're conservative and racist but not like I don't know any abuse or anything like that right so if that's it honestly I would. I would still tell them. Wow so not. All lawyers are crooked. It has to say he'd tell the truth day that I only heard him layers crooked thing and I go wait wait a minute. We actually have these ethical rules that you know I mean I know they're all the stories and everything but you know we do things that some other people do we lose our license people find out about. I don't know I love lawyers. I just think divorce lawyers are crooked. That's my mother divorce attorney. Oh Wow oh yeah no no in Florida. She's really taking one for the team so I I think I would also tell the truth you would. You'd say they ran away because you're you're terrible person. Yeah and also like I mean. I don't know that I would like give a description of the car or anything but I'd be like. Oh Yeah I saw it. I saw I saw them leave and they'd be like what did you see and I did not my glasses. You'd be like they're safe but I'm not telling you where they went. Well how do we know who they run off with like. Thank you like say something like You know like use it as leverage and say even though I've seen you do all these like mean things because I'm well in my case because I'm a father I'm gonNa Tell L. U.. This where you can say. Don't ever call the police again and I'll tell you ooh yeah. We solve that one good job guys got more points. I'll give you more points. Good Yeah 'cause you're partial. Yes I'm very we're all very partial in this game. There are bias Knicks game. Are you a terrible parent similar theme your that. Your child is bad at dating. Especially Sean I states so you create fake online profile with the help of a woman you've hired so she can go on a date with your kid and report back on how they behave on the date eight. You then tell your kids therapist what you learned so they can help your kid in therapy better at dating without your kid. Knowing you're involved at all your the kid goes on to successfully date someone you absolutely hate. Are you a terrible terrible parent. Yeah I I mean I think I am because all that bind the back stuff that led to it. Did they fall in love with the person that they the person you hired. I thought about about taking it that direction but that was already movie with Matthew mcconaughey. Hey and Sarah Jessica Parker so I don't want to step on their toes but okay then how does the person and they went on a date with that you hired and it ghosting ghosting. We'll know the date was so terrible. That your kid understood that they never get a second date. Oh so the kid knows. They're bad at dating waiting. They they look at the facts to say. Don't know why they're bad at dating and they don't know what they're doing wrong but somehow through this whole trick in the therapy at least got a date finally but then they started dating a person that I hate yes. Golly that's a tough one workers. You're happy with their dating on the one hand you have been now. You have to deal with their significant other WHO's awful. I think I think like that's the penance. Like you did all this stuff behind their back. They're happy you got to hang out with Angela. Who Sucks Yeah? You know what they'll try you're paying the price in the price and they may just be joining to get back to you because somehow they figured out you did that. Twist and turn. Let me tell you what happens. Is that their your partner hates you back and they take your kid away and you never see him again. What I am sorry about that? They immigrate to Canada go to Canada and they find it pretty easy to get exactly how full circle full circle our final game. Are they an alien alien from outer space. I WANNA clarify situation worse or are they just rude while at the gym a very old man takes the treadmill next next to you even though there are many others free he then proceeds to yell at you to go faster and faster despite only walking on his treadmill is he a an alien or just rude. It ends up being the best workout of your life. Wow and how. What results are you seeing? No this is the best workout of your life. Just like the calories burned is the most because he's been screaming at you to go faster. I love this guy reminds me of my son's baseball coach. When my son was eight would scream at your kin? Oh this guy would scream and he would light a cigarette and walk up to the left field line and all the parents on the other teams thought we were crazy for having our kids with him but He got results he he got resolved. Boyd noticed takes me back to my terrible double parents. Thank you so much for joining us. This was so informative and important. Where do you think people can find more information? You know what's going on in in the immigration courts. If if they're interested our bar association is called Ayla American Immigration Lawyers Association Association and then they also have like a separate foundation thing called American immigration counsel and they're constantly putting out how you know. I just get these news blurbs or I get things that are going on in courts or things that are going on down in Texas and policy stuff that's going on so they can be a good good grief source There's another place for people like you know when they worry about the have a friend and they're they're worried about the travel ban and Oh my lord or they're gonNa you know what. What do I do you with my phone? When I'm they WANNA take my phone for me and look at it when I come into immigration and all of that will the ACLU website always trust some good guidance on things like that? Because that's been a thing that you get asked about more and more because when you come into the airport they're asking to your cell phone and to look through it and ridiculous list. Yeah well thank you. We'll we'll provide links to both those things in the episode prescription and thank you for coming on you so much and my dad says hi. Thanks for having me terrific. I really appreciate it guys after the break. We'll be talking all about what defines a healthy not relationship like we know back to just between us it's time for topics. XXXXX XXXXX ex- ex- baby. I kinda sing along to the music to like banner. Were I was doing. I was doing it quietly quietly. They'll pick it up on Mike they'll pick it up in post. This week's topic is healthy relationships. What's that like? No just kidding readers. Listeners audience please write in this no what is that. Look like. This topic was inspired by this tweet. That's kind of gone viral Arrow where this woman said you know writers if your partner doesn't read your work then there's not supportive and you should break up with them Its author Morgan Jenkins and I think it was like hey date someone who reads your work and people were divided on it. Yes so there was a lot of response where it was like. Absolutely your partner should read your work and support your work and then other people being like I've been married for twenty years. My partner doesn't read any of the books. I right but is supportive of me in so many other ways and sometimes people were like I would die if my partner read my work which is very funny so it just got me thinking about like that there are so many different relationship styles that work for different people right. I was wondering if we could sort of like find some tenants that sort of apply to everybody everybody well. My partner is a musician and I love their music. I listen to their music. Even if we weren't dating that's huge I know. Do you think you could date them if you didn't like their music. So that's the thing right like I have dated a musician who did not like his music and it was. Oh let's bleep that bit so it's like you know. Oh this thing where it affects your respect for your partner and obviously you and I both know. Respect is huge and important in a relationship respecting each other. I say that's the number KNBR. One tenant of a healthy relationship right so I would hope that they liked my work and respected my work and we're interested in you know like my partner read my comic book and like Ah Breezed through it in a day and I would hope that I would like their work and they would like my work but I think that's just something that makes me. That's my definition of respect back which I other people might have a totally different definition of respect. What could you be with someone who didn't consumer work? I'd feel sad. Yeah I would feel sad but I would want to curate. What of my work? They they don't they don't need to see all of it. There's certain things we're partners have been like. Oh I watched and I'm like you really didn't have to write or like AAC. This isn't representative of what I do like. They watch like a branded video. And I'm like no no no no no but then you know. The person I'm dating now is like only listened to the new record. Don't listen to anything I put out before. Oh really yeah and I'm like I love those songs and they're like a embarrassing. That's so funny. I know I think I have dated people. They didn't respect their work or didn't think we're funny or didn't think they were talented and I want to be with someone who I would consume their work even if we weren't together well I can't believe you dated someone you didn't think was funny. Oh yeah in or didn't think was talented or would like worry that they weren't good that things or get frustrated that they were like bad at their chosen career. So I think that that kind of comes back to like respect. Yeah so obviously in different careers like I'm not qualified. You know someone's a good doctor or a good accountant or good right but you can kind of get the sense of your partner if you feel like they're capable person that yeah and that's part of it but also some people are like I dunno my partners Like a shitty their chef and their bad at it but I they also who are really supportive of me and they do other things that I love and they're kind and they treat animals. Well I don't know you know what I mean. People have different standards. But that's what that's what we're getting into is like you have to figure out what matters to you and what's important to you so for me like I couldn't date someone. I didn't find funny right. Obviously the law geary with someone. The more likely likely this is to happen. But I think it's really bad when someone's personality annoys you. Oh my God and you see that with so many couples especially the older couples where it's just like the basic principles of this person's personality. Annoy them if they seem to hate each other right. I think it's really important into can always find each other amusing. Yeah and to share a sense of humor I hate. There's like couples that I know that have like one person says. Is that something to the other person where they're like. They hate this thing and they hate their personality and they hate all these things and try to change them and stuff and my thought is always like back. If they don't like all of these things about you go like leave like why do you WanNa be with someone who you think all of this negative stuff about right so I think the important thing for a healthy relationship is not wanting your partner to change significantly right because then then you're just like in a relationship for the hope of the future. Sure I think like what the relationship is today. Yeah it's so weird like 'cause there's like stuff you know where friends will say well. My partner doesn't like this this and this and I'll be like well that's pretty mean of them to say to you like you should kind of stuff like you don't know how to take care of me. You don't know what to do when I'm upset you're selfish and you work too much stuff like that right and so it's like okay. Well my advice is like you should leave them. Because they're being really mean to you but also they. It shouldn't be with you like why are you with someone who you are like mad at all the time and don't seem to enjoy. I would argue that sometimes. There is a learning curve curve on figuring out how your partner wants to be cared for. Definitely you have to communicate that someone might not get that right right away then. What matters is if they are responsive to what? Ah You're telling them a hugely so for me. The thing that has made me feel that my current relationship is very healthy is that there is is so much communication and the assumption of good intentions. Yes the benefit of the doubt that when we disagree on something we are coming coming from a baseline of you are good person and I am a good person and nobody is trying to hurt each other and things get resolved like that for rush because it's just snapped in case on Mike. Yeah because because everyone yeah good job thank you yes Amar I assume but yeah like everybody is coming at it being like. I believe that you are not militias huge and the hi dear that you to our team yes as something that Jake says all the time that like. He wanted a teammate. Like we were on the team if there's issues it's not like us against each other. It's like us against the world. Yes yeah and that's really important and not taking things personally that they don't take things personally. I don't take things personally like the assumption is always love or that they just didn't realize or you. You need to explain something which is like I was like like talking about Maybe buying a place in L. A. eventually and My partner was like a little upset and I was like. Why are you upset like like why? I don't understand what I did and they were like. I don't want you to talk about buying a place like I want you to include me in your future and I was like Oh. I was just like mindlessly chattering about like what I might do. When I buy a house I so did not realize like but instead of being like you? Don't think of me. And you cut cut me out and Blah Blah Blah. They were like hey just include me and I like Oh my God absolutely. I'm like you know what I mean. The assumption that the other person is just like you know l.. Like not coming at you to hurt you but like just being a little whatever and then communicating that need without anger. I also think it's so crucial to share the same values news. You're going to have a healthy relationship and obviously those values can vary very much between couple to couple. Yeah but like it's family a priority. Right is traveling a priority right like what do we want the future to look like. Do you WANNA have kids. We want to save money. Do we spend more money day to day. Like I think that all of that stuff is just going to set you up much more success than like if you have different values you're constantly going to be battling each other. Yeah and sometimes your values can be we both of you value independence absolutely and so you don't necessarily want a future that is Traditional right I mean it it is like really he just down to like lining and I. We've talked on this show how much you and I both hate the concept of soulmates and how that is garbage and I think a lot of people get into super were unhealthy relationships. Because they're like no. This is my soul mate. This is my purse and for some reason because because they're addicted to you know oh obsessive love or because they have been with someone for a long time so they must be their soulmate or whatever it is. If things aren't working you can always like not be together. You know what I mean. There's no obligation to be with someone if it's unhealthy and I think that like you should be with someone who's willing to put in the same amount amount of work as you. Yeah so for one couple. That could be very little work. Yeah their relationships will be the priority and that's fine as long as that's both people right or another couple might like the relationship is they're both there's number one priority and so they're willing to put in all the work they need to to make it work but you just have to be aligned on those things. Yeah I I think sometimes Your Body reacts to like your body gives you clues like sometimes I've been with people and you you know that your partner's coming over and you're anxious anxious Or like I've been with people where I like kind of in the back of my mind to know that it's not good and we should break up it's unhealthy but I don't WanNa do anything but then my body audio's like my stomach hurts all the time and my like eyes are sunk in my hair is like falling out or whatever I don't mean you're is like physical symptoms Adams of stress. I know you do but what what happens. I like dark circles. Oh like I have like very physical reactions to stress and so like when I know. I know that something isn't right. Even if I don't WanNa admit it your body will tell you And that's something to pay attention to because if your relationship is unhealthy your body body will feel it. I I think like a thing that is really nice and I was talking to my therapist about my current partner and my therapist was like it's just com- Like it's just calm. There's no like intense drama day to day. There's no like I'm not trying to decode messages or a of fight. You know it's just like discussions and also like I just feel calm. It's so nice to become. Can you imagine think about what are pass. Can you fucking imagine being calm like in the past. Could you imagine being calm like we are now new. WHOA I don't even relate to myself in other relationships anymore oh it's bunkers and like if you're partners yelling at you by you know I was driving down beverly with Dan and I screamed. I hate you then. He tried to get out of the moving car. Like what that is not. Okay Yeah UH obviously you might not be that. You're a bad person but like two people can be triggers for each other right so that's the other big component is. I think a healthy relationship is when someone brings out the best in you and and you like the person you are when you're with them. Oh huge huge man so many relationships were so bad. Yeah it's hard and you know what it's it's hard to get out of them when you're when you're like in the middle of it in the midst of it you go nobody understands. This is just how we are this. Is You know what I mean like you do this whole rationalizing in your head. It's scary to be alone. It's scary to go through a break-up but there is hope to make a come on. Tell us your thoughts. This is a very heavy episode. Yeah Super Heavy so we love to meander between very heavy and very relight here on just between us so I was just going to add. It's really interesting to be in the room with two people and really great stable healthy relationships because I was gonna come in and say I've been on a break from relationships because I know exactly what you guys are talking about and when you just don't have that then sometimes it's nice to take a break doc. I think yeah. I had to take a break before I started dating. Jake and like is like really reassess a lot of stuff and work on myself a bunch like. I don't think that I could have had the healthy relationship in Japan. Have with him now if it was me a couple years ago. Yeah me too me too. It was all bad behavior. Like I don't want to seem like it was other people. It was like other people in also. Oh my own bad behavior and why was that my instinct to just act like that. Yeah I think like it. It's like really important for both people or multiple people to be in a good place when you finally meet. Yeah so I think it's really important. That's the only thing that went to add to this conversation. It's just so important to like understand who you are and what you want what you need before you can get to a place where you can be a team and that you don't need the relationship that the relationship isn't what makes you whole as a person it's something you want is a great addition but like I think I think that then you get into codependency. which isn't healthy? All so people act like they can't control who they are attracted to but you can know if you know that you're attracted to terrible people you can work on that and try steer yourself away. Save yourself bud. You know how it's going to end and don't do it. What are we rate this episode? Ten out of ten Marco's. I don't know I just found interesting interesting interesting. Yeah Yeah Yeah. He's very interesting. Well Irate at ten ten new administration's yeah please please. I liked that. He was up like at first. He was like it's going to take years then he was like well. You know they did this so quickly. Maybe we can fix it quicker than we think that is nice to think about yeah to make it what he rated ten out of ten guys yelling at you on the treadmill with your reality that'd be horrifying hypotheticals was funny. It'd be so scary. Wow I think we really did a good job helping the person who needed Alternatives to therapy. I hope so right. Let us know if we helped you. Also just please review this podcast. Yes please review this. podcast casts subscribe to this podcast. Send it to a friend to subscribe in review right like just just give us five stars and then right we love it. Don't even write anything. Just just give us five. Stars takes one second. Come on guys come on. Also we have merchant pods WAG DOT COM very exciting after that shameless promotion. Just between Asu hosted by me Allison Raskin and me Gabby done our engineers Brendon Burns. He also composed are killer theme music producers to Meco weather spin in our supervising producers. Josephine Martorana our executive producer. Chris Bannon just between us as a production of stitcher. I have nothing to say other than America. America high high of just like with disdain. Yeah America are like America cluster mark. Yep Lena Yeah ooh stitcher.
Sperm Donation with Sabrina Jalees, Initiating Sex and Rejection
"Szeswith swinging Salinas. Oh I may writer director and arm. Shaver oh I don. I'm a writer by CON by central icon. Wink and INSOMNIAC. Oh no back maybe. It's here to stay. How how bad is it pretty bad Asleep at all E. Yeah I'm up every few hours. 'cause I wake up throughout the night as well but then I don't. I don't think you're supposed to bud. Oh I've always woken up throughout the night. Do people not yeah. I think you're supposed to sleep through the night. No that's insane. There's no way people just sleep through the night. Yes you know it is. It's people who have no problems that doesn't exist though. Everybody has problems. Sure I think I me rephrase people who don't have anxiety my sleep cycle. I'm just I'm sleeping in bed with a dog and another person so of course I'm GonNa. I mean sugars. UPS is to stuff in the night. Oh Really Oh yes she's moving. She's proven no. No beans. Is Iraq leap okay. So let's say you wake up. That are getting out of bed or you like dude. What are you what you do one time I woke about four? Am and then. I just watched succession okay. How it's meant to be seen exactly until like six am? And then. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll be like And I'll take a weed gummy and try to try to go back to sleep. I listened to a meditation APP. I'm I'm doing all the things that are supposed to help you fall asleep. I got lavender under my nose. I'm like doing all this shit all the things that people come at me and they're like have you tried that. Yeah Bitch. I've try to be able to fall asleep at the beginning of the night. Sometimes I can but then I'm up at like one or three thirty or then again like I don't know I call my mom. She's always up to. Oh Yeah just give her go talk talk it out. Well no because at three o'clock my time at six o'clock her time so she should be awake. Well why should she be awake at six o'clock to grab the paper. Make some Coffee Mike. I always struggle to fill the time now and I wake up so late. I can't imagine waking up at six and not having to fill full day. Well I think those people go to bed at like eight. They watched the mass singer and they head right to bed. This is just between Lena. Variety show filled with heartfelt advice ridiculous game him brutal honesty. Those are the people that sleep through the night. Are The people that. Watch the masks singer because I I imagine. They're just they don't. They don't have a need for a lot. I can't even fathom a night where I go to bed and then I wake up and it's the morning that okay. So how do you might have insomnia. You'll find we've got great episode this week. We'll be talking to Sabrina Julie's and asking some tough questions all about fertility and sperm donation. Oh Yeah A- and later we'll be talking about our favorite topic rejection. We love to talk about romantic social and professional rejection. Yeah it's what's hot. What's happening the but first head sexless in Schenectady? I love that. That is the name of your column baby. Okay so this is the part where we give advice. Nice to sexless in Schenectady. 'cause she wrote in I ask you a quick question me. Yeah Yeah. What does the army? Oh thank you. It means to long didn't read so it's like the the Compact version of their of their quest. Thank you sex. I appreciate that. So her T. l.. Dr Is. I don't know how to WHO initiates sex with my partner and her background is. Hey Guys I've been in a relationship for a year and a half and we've been living together for about a year minus a summer long distance. Thank you for that Info. Her meds depress her sex drive. Which is something we've discussed and we both know about but I also feel like maybe I'm just a horner person feel that I feel like I don't even know how to initiate eight sex or making out or anything I can tell when she isn't into it so in that case I don't start? I'm kind of an experience that relationships I've dated in high school but she's my first girlfriend. Help help help. I think you can just be honest and I know it's like weird because I think you're worried probably about them rejecting you and it's like but if they say they don't want to then you just go okay. I'm not quite sure like I think it's it's a fear of rejection right. That's what we're worried about. But but I think also like potentially for the this couple to have a sex life. It's sort of on on sexless Schenectady to initiate it. Because I think made me me. Her partners don't make her. You know I think a lot of time people with like lower sex drive. It's not gonNA come into their head right so it's not gonna be this thing where they're like. Oh Oh I got to have sex with my partner but if their partner initiates and potentially like gets them gets the ball rolling in the mood like then things things can happen but it sucks maybe more on the partner to do that and I think that maybe are sexists in Schenectady is willing to be that partner who initiates. She just doesn't no literally what to do. Say Do you WanNa fuck right now right let me say. Sometimes people don't like when I just go like. Hey you on you on bone down or whatever ever. They're like they don't like that. They WANNA be romanced a little and so I think you can do like Like you're so cute. You're so man you look so cute right now come here like and then like start kissing on them and like doing unlike putting your hand places that you've touched implements. Yes I was GONNA say compliments I think Komo potentially your partner isn't really feeling that much of a sexual being So if you point out things about them that you find nine desirable that you find beautiful that you find attractive than in my kind of shift their mindset. They come maybe I am. Maybe someone does want me. Maybe I do want them to want me me back. Yeah I do a lot of like. Hey what you doing with that but over there like I try to be like. Hey Career Golota to figure out I think for some people humor works awesome for sample. It doesn't like we're like humor can like make it playful and fun and then for other people it's like but we're joking mode right now and for me. Joking mode is not not sexual. Okay then comments. I think you're right maybe just like sexy ernest compliments. I also think that there's something to just building up the intimacy in your relationship ship in terms of just like when you are on the couch making sure that you're touching on the couch and below the pants touching just like that. Your legs are next to each other or that your arms around each other you know and so I think that the more the more physical intimacy you have even if it's not directly sexual. I think it might help you feel closer in your relationship in general And then you know I think another thing is is that you don't always have to have sex right so if that feels like it's it's too much for your partner and there are there. Don't really want that. There's like half ways where it's like. Let me give you a massage and then you do something like Bat. And then Sunday's to your partner might be into more and some days they might not but you still like sharing physically intimate moment experience. Yeah or you could just kiss. Yeah you can totally. I think also two things I just want to address one I would I would. I don't know if you do feel bad but do not feel feel bad about being the whore near person in the relationship that does not say anything bad about you. That does not make you like a bad person. I used to spend a lot of time thinking that that made me like like some sort of monster and it doesn't to You know it's interesting because you mentioned that you mostly dated in high school and that this is your first girlfriend and I think like stereotypically when you're dating boys a lot of times they're initiating and so maybe you were not experienced in this realm because you just never had to And it wasn't like you know more it wasn't like a thing that was expected of you so I understand you feeling like like you don't you don't have the tools for this and like that. That's normal yeah that unlike gabby not all of us come out of the womb knowing how to seduce. There's going to be some growing pains. came out with a tiny pencil. Moustache arose came out like just like pep Bela pugh. Oh God I wouldn't. I mean I wouldn't put it past show at least a few nurses in Florida. Have your phone number. They also like I understand that. Maybe it might not enter their minds but they do have to take into account that like this is something that you want the relationship like they can't just like let it all be on you to steal some advice. I read it in the hit magazine. Cosmopolitan ooh a cool cool way to spice up. Your relationship is to sort of like play with expectation right so it's not just like okay in this moment I'm going to like make the move. It's like all all day. You're sort of like looking forward to it so like texting them throughout the day or like planning date night or something where you're it's not like you have to expect your partner to go from zero to sixty or sort of like priming them right so you're like hey tonight like I'd love if like we had dinner and then maybe like took it to the bedroom edge room or something. Yeah get thanking them for their give them time to like mentally prepare and I and I think that that can that can also be like exciting for you. Guys is become part of a game and a flirtation and and I think that as much as you should feel comfortable talking to your partner. Sometimes texting makes it easier until you get to a place where you're more comfortable talking about it. Yeah you know so sort of like maybe pushing your desires via text when you guys are part sort of like and then you know that if you do initiate a kiss later they won't feel like Oh my God what are you doing because you sort of. Like stated intention. Yeah and I also think that you don't need to take the rejection. If if your partner is not in the mood sought personal you know. Yeah but you also don't need to take it in silence. Silence that's totally fine. When you don't want to have sex with me I need to know that you still love me that you're interested in me that this has this has nothing to do with me? As a person or are are like the state of our relations. And I'm reassuring yet like. I think that this is a situation where you're allowed to ask for that reassurance. You can't just have have them be cold on you right. They have to be like. Oh No it's just my medication. I still love you. I still want to be with you. Also this visit important part of a relationship and if you guys aren't sinked up in this area and it's causing a lot of stress and you try these things that we recommend that it still doesn't work like that's that's a valid reason for a relationship not to be working. Oh Yeah you're not. That's what I mean like. You're not a monster. If you're just you have a higher sex drive in. You need someone to match that and I think especially if your girlfriend makes you feel out. Oh Yeah and if that happens I think that this is not the right relationship inchape yes any sort of yes. If this person is making you feel like you are some sort of iridium. -able pervert in a bad way then or just that if they reject you without providing any reassurance yeah like if they just consistently are not interested and then they don't they don't make up for in some other way but also also for some people like being rejected sexually is a trigger. And that's just like an it's an anxiety trigger it's like a self hatred trigger And like like that is valid. If you can't be with someone like sometimes certain people are just triggers for you. Yes and you can't be with someone who is Their thing triggers your thing right and I think it'd be great if you are in therapy to potentially like work through this in therapy like yeah. Why why is that? So why is that so bad when that happens happens right but you also need a partner like you said who brings out the best in you and not the worst in you. Yes and sometimes it just doesn't work out because certain people's deals trigger your dealing Lynn. There just incompatible deals exactly. Wow I I just want to commend you again for being so creative with Sexual Cincinnati. Yeah if people could set start instead instead of their real names start sending in this kind of fun like Advice Column Name. Oh we really appreciate it if you want to submit your international questions just between between us pot at gmail.com that just between US P O d g mail dot com thicker out after the break. We'll be talking about sperm donors with Sabrina. Delete and what's in your your jewelry box. Ever wonder what it's worth. Where is the premier online auction house for selling diamonds? Fine Jewelry and luxury watches. They're dedicated to getting you. The best market value typically weekly two to three times more than local options fear jewelry with its personalized in full service auction. Every piece is carefully handled by worthies jewelry and watch experts. They're catalogued photographed cleaned and graded prior auction. So you can proceed with confidence knowing your jewelry is in good hands and that you're making the best choice selling with worthy with worthy. You get complimentary prophetic shipping and insurance with Lloyd's of London an independent grading report from a third party lab and high definition digital photography and video throughout the process. You'll remain in full control role of setting your reserve price for your private online auctions over eight hundred industry buyers get it all done while you're busy preparing for the holidays and get extra money and time for your holiday giving visit worthy me dot com slash between us for an exclusive limited time offer. That's where dot com slash between us. Welcome back to just between us. It's time for the juiciest. Most scandal is controversial segment into podcasting tough question. Today we have actor writer. Comedian Sabrina. Julius hello guys. I'm so happy to be here L. Coming. Let's keep all this just between us. You're the first person to make that Joe not know in like forty episodes. I think God made all people make it. I mean every day the so so how old is your your kid. My kid is a year and three quarters. His name is Wolf -I cutie. Let's see we know Wolf Wolf. He W L F and and you want to know how we made him. Yes story that I love so yes tell us how you made Woolsey. I've never had it introduced. Does like the story now. I love it okay. So here's the story so my my wife and I were like looking into whereas our baby. How long had you been married? We had been. We've been together for almost eleven years and we've been married for seven years and did so that you always wanted to have kids. Yeah my wife is like hippy. Tattoos spends too much money. And I'm like why do we have so much money in the Rock and ah but she's like slowly infected me with has of intuition way of thinking I I was like daughter of immigrants. Like what are you talking about. Dreams can put your rocks away but but now I totally believe it because of the story so eight years ago she had a dream about wolves and she woke up and she was like our baby's name is wolf and I was like cool. We're having a baby the and cool name. My Mom's going to be mad but down for Wolf E boy girl boy girl whatever I was down but we always kind of so my dad along time ago I was about to have an operation and he had this sense of mortality and he was like be now. When you in China baby we can go to and we can adopt someone in our lineage? The edge and I was like are looking kidding me. That's incredible that is so cool. have any had the operation survived. Didn't have that romantic `sensitive mortality -ality and I was like Dad. When are we going to Pakistan? He's like are you fucking nuts. Yeah we'RE NOT WANNA show. You can't be too lesbian showing up being like give me all the Muslim kids. The thing with international adoptions we were like looking into sort of where our kid was an actually Mexico City is a place that allows. It's very rare that that foreign countries allow international adoption for gay couples up. Mexico City does however international adoption. They only allow you to adopt a kid. Five years old and up. We we were going on this trip. So you originally thought adoption versus sperm the sperm donation. I along time ago. Had this idea of like steal my brothers and through it and she was like that but it is to me and my brother was like I don't want it. I was like how do I make this happen. I was like that too. I had a girlfriend and I wanted her older brother. WHO's like very put together? Politicians Titians like in politics. Whatever and she was just like no he doesn't get to have everything? Yeah we'll get to have my baby and I was. I was like Whoa. I didn't think about it that way. And now that we have Woolsey I do see how it would be complicated parents being. Look at Samir's gorgeous baby right right right right. Just dig my fingernails deepen. She was worried about the competitiveness of that. Yes Yeah so looking into international adoption. We we actually had signed up for an adoption seminar here in L. A.. Right before we went on this trip a few years ago. I guess it'll will be three years ago. If Wolf he's going to turn to so adoption seminar we show up and this company. That's been alive for twenty years folds and doesn't tell anyone that's coming to the seminar so people had actually actually invested money and everyone shows up the seminar and the building. Manager's like Oh no you that that floor like they just got kicked out there not a company anymore. Oh my God. We're we fly to from Mexico City. This is a leader and We eat a bunch of delicious tacos and like My wife life is a little Irish lady and white power is everywhere except for in the belly of a white lady immediately diarrhea puking both at the same time And I'm like I'll let you do that here this airbnb and I'll take a surf lesson. I got her gatorade. It wants you there watching the day right so I take the surf lesson and immediately. I'm like I mean he's gorgeous gorgeous. My my instructor is beautiful. His skin color the same as mine his hair same as mine. His face gorgeous. You realize that you guys look alike look alike and just not like actually if you see a picture of him you're going to be like pitcher delusional but like in a way where like if I was casting the mail me the in the movie blue crush right right right. It'd be the Sabrina. Julie's most Sean Rodriguez. I don't know why involved blue crashes happen. Ah Yes do that blue crush. Was the way surf lessons went like we'd be like Kate. Bosworth and Michelle Rodriguez like in the waves. We'd be just like surfing alongside each other and they get it immediately. Yeah you'd be like yeah it that wave and we'd like to surf over that way but what a surf lesson is is a lot Paul. It's actually before that you're just laying on a board on the sand right no in the water waiting for the waves you're just laying on aboard are doing nothing. Staring into a man's is just ways to ask for ages. Yes the Classic Surfing Lesson Experience Eh in my experience. So so I'm just I'm feeling this connection Shawna's still puking so I grab a bottle of Moscow al in and Ricky my instructor at the time And I have some drinks and he's just like he's just his energy is just like I compared to when I met Shawn because when I met when I before I met Shana when I saw Sean I just was like the stakes could not be higher. I immediately it was like how do I tell her. She's my wife and I tried for like two hours to be like you're my wife. Excuse me Ma'am but your wife. Where did you see her in San Francisco? She was like I was at this bar and I was broken hearted. It was six months out of a break up and my old my last girlfriend like immediately found a new girlfriend and I was like Oh love is fake AAC. I'm never going to be attracted to anyone again and you know how it is gay looking around. You feel like. It's even more Boutique Boutique. Boutique find your luxury girl right you. Oh you know what. I mean by boutique coins coins but like very specific. Yeah yeah feels like. How am I going to find this person and so I said to my friend I was only in San Francisco but just go for a couple of days and I said to my friend like I'm never I never going to be attracted to anyone again? And they took a sip of my gin and tonic and then I looked up and Shawna. was there dancing by herself yourself. Shoes dance it like she was having so much fun alone alone and I was like I want to be invited to that party. And then it's just like how to play it cool when you're like. Your palms are sweaty. Mom's spaghetti myself then. You approached her I tried to. She was at the bar and this was like blackberry days and she had a blackberry and I had a blackberry and I was like Oh my God. What are we going to be? We're going to be uh-huh and I was like sitting next to her like you know what when you're just trying you're like waiting for an end. It's like double Dutch and your shoelaces are untied. And you're like God what do I say and so I just sat there for like ten minutes and then I went back to my friend. She's like okay. So what's your name and I'm like I didn't talk to her as Shauna was smoking outside. And I don't smoke and I asked for my friend for a cigarette and I went outside and it was like can have allied and then in her butch reynolds cigarette and I was like I wanted my Unicorn Lady. Yeah and you're like getaway. Yes but health but instead we were talking she was like I'm going to visit New York and I was like I actually live in New York a very interesting city. I'm a stand up comedian and interesting occupation but anyway I did have these business cards and I had my head shot on them and it said like comedian named so after. Shana goes inside and by this time. She's like I mean we've been around each other's orbit but haven't officially spoken and I just went up to her and I was like. Hey I'm only here for one more day and I just want to tell you I've been trying to tell you all night. I think you're super cute if you're around tomorrow I'd love to hang out. And they gave her the business card and she looked at me and she was like. I think you're super cute. ooh And then we kissed on the cheek and it was like orgasmic. You know when you like it was just like it felt so good and and then she's got tattoos and I was like this bitch is going to make out with me right away and I tried to turn. It looked at her and tried to turn it into a like a make. Then she turned it into another Gotcha and then I got in the cab to head back to the hotel with my friend and and I was like I mean how I immediately was referring to her. As my wife only texted the next day we were texting about like that she was like it was like areas. Like you're we're my wife my wife. Yeah you have maybe a special power where you can recognize something in someone. Well they're going to have on your life. Maybe and also maybe I don't know it's like maybe similar to that balance of give don't give Fox. It's like when you are tuned to connection with someone. Are you going to go after it and how hard you go after. Yeah I go after it really hard. Yeah but then that can also bounce back so so you so you met Ricky and you thought immediately. How do I get control my personality to make? How do you approach this this insane? It's not only that it's like this is just this made up scenario in my mind. Meanwhile meanwhile my wife is like shitting and puking like we're on the rooftop she's just like you know dehydrating her body right And so the next day as we're walking on the beach I was like we're about to pass the like Surf Hut where I took my lesson and I mentioned the guy that I really liked him but I was thinking like maybe he's donor and we hadn't even talked about like we weren't really on the track of having a baby donor talked about like if someone's going to get pregnant. Ob Shawna and China was like you're insane insane like you've already decided what strangers just to put in my body and it's all good fun for you but like I don't know. She says she was skeptical but then and literally like twenty steps down the beach pass his hut he's there. He's laying in a hammock. I introduced him to Shana. She says Hi. What's up cool? Maybe we'll take a lesson. Asan later Coca Cola. We walk away and within like it was like to beat exchange but Shawna's like you can ask him well so she liked his survive as well. Yes yeah and so so I mean he's just like he's like a really special special dude and so when and now it's like it's still like cool but it's still like this made up thing it's like him to ask him and it's also like what are the chances says it all seems kind of crazy. Yeah we don't know him very well at all. Yeah is he. He's twenty three okay. Does she agree that that he kind of looks like you know the lookalike thing is more like the skin color and all that stuff. It's not like this is Sabrina. Julie's photocopies I'd like it would be. It would be like yes I mean like well. Yeah people like it's so crazy. Shana had the baby. He looks looks just like you and he looks just like the executive producer head of casting so then the next day is because it's not not like just because Shauna said yes. It's like an. It's happening right right like we have one more day and that day we have this big fishing excursion planned and we go out with like our beers and are cooler full full of stuff to the boat and they're like Oh you know what the the ocean is too rocky. Today I was wolf in the ocean making sure that he would be made because I mean to rocky and as we're leaving that boat that area who's walking towards US making Ricky Ricky's walking towards us with his surfboard and he's about to go out for a lesson I was. Can I get the next one and then I did and I went out and literally asked him in the water. I was like just again. It was like double Dutch. It was like it was a lot like surfing. I kept on thinking about that where it's like. You're waiting waiting waiting waiting for the right ways I said. Hey I'm GonNa ask you something and I've never asked anyone before and I don't want you to feel any pressure But my wife and I would like to have a baby and and we were wondering if you'd like to help us or if you'd be interested in helping us and he was like ah blush a bit and was like well he was like I don't know how that works but You guys are a beautiful couple couple and if I can help you that I'm interested and so I took the next way then and I like ran up to sean and I was like I. We know that that meant like sperm donation. Yeah he knew what yeah and none of us knew what the way everybody at this point in the a story is like fuck your wife and I'm like no. This was a story about a man fucking my wife. Do you think it'd be like it'd be like yeah lethal like giggling playing while I tell them right so then I'm watching right into it. So he comes back in the water and as he's coming back and we're talking and we're like okay. Cool me back at the back of the place in like an hour he turns around and on his back is a tattoo of a wolf. Oh my God okay. I'm not joking before I'd noticed it. Then I because he has a bunch of tattoos and this statue like the exact crop and style of the wolf head a year before. This is Christmas a year before we had just moved to. La and we went to Palm Springs for Christmas and our friends happened happened to be there. We did this like like joke. President Christmas with them and they went to goodwill and got a plate and on the plate was the exact same crop and style of a wolf head and in the corner at said mom like someone who had drawn it for their mom. What yeah I have the Tattoo of it and he has the Tattoo of and I know that like signs are can be bullshit and people overdo it and they're like stop sign and I just quit instagram? And it's right right right but you can reach them but it's also like sometimes those signs were there and they may not it must was he gone away as well she was. Yeah I mean like he just the the flow with the whole process was just pretty beautiful. You know it's like such a big ask and the way he was just felt open and connected to it. So let's the next step so the next step so. I thought like I had no idea how this should happen. So I was like running into like every convenience convenience store inside you leaders like emptying out tampons and like thinking I'd use the applicator to put in my best prototype was like this this dish glove that I cut the thumb off and then a duck taped the clothes like icing piping bag or cut. I had no idea how much or how little just just came out of a Dick. I literally thought it was like a home depot bucket by never. I've never gotten I've never gotten job. Just like three pumps and I was like like I got a check in with my friends. Also what ended up. We realized Shauna had just finished her periods. So there's no way that she was ovulating. Okay so we learned all about that and and we ended up booking a trip to come back around the time after tracking cooperation for four months around the time that we thought she'd be ovulating for like ten days and so we ended up up having this amazing vacation with them And she kept paying on the stick. That like it's flashing Smiley face when you're ovulating allow allow and then we did it ourselves in Airbnb with a Turkey baster. No Wealth Turkey. BASTER would be too big. So that's the other thing. People should know poquito ages comes out of Pini. It's a needle without a needle and then and then our friend Boyana had done this so who actually happened to be the friend that was in San Francisco and I met Shana. But it's a dog if you attach a dog catheter. To the end of a syringe then can actually like it. Can you can be having sex. You can have have your fingers in there and you like like I had like beautiful sex. Yeah because the conceived wealthy with Ricky's ricky came into a cup left. Donna and I had sex. She came I put the Syringe and the dog author thing just like is an extension like a smaller extension so we don't have to put the syringe in. Yeah and and I know that like you're more likely to get pregnant if you're if you're actually having success because sperm survives in a warm and wet play that's where it thrives so so it actually makes sense to like four couples that both people have China's to to actually be having sex when the jobs goes in which is why I love to tell the story because I think like for me I thought it was gonNA be such an uphill battle to have a baby that it would I'd have to do. It would be like all this form filling and like you know was up to like some lady in a lab Eb right and it's like to take the power back and be like no we're going to. We're going to bake love going to make this baby ricky. Doing doing this was waiting outside side. There's this resort in outside of Siladic Lati- bill and we drove by gated community. And so we personified lady. That was our inside. I joke throughout the week. It's like I was lady becoming GONNA pick up the bill ladyboys. Dad Actually has the bill tonight and so we there was like this balcony where we were staying and so he when he was done with his part he was like Lebeau and then we came up and then we did our thing and then we were like lady boo and then he came. Shana and Ricky and I I lay in the bed and Shawna put a pillow on her but so that everything slotted the right direction and we watch Morena. That was the night that first night that we did. It was the night Woolsey was conceived. Oh my God you try multiple times in Eugene seminar but based on the. What's the date that he's is locked in? Yeah it's not the technical. Yeah lock in your votes. The science science locked in the science of it is that he was conceived that day. So Okay so I know from you. Having told me the story before that Rick. He had a girlfriend. We'll ricky met his girlfriend's shortly he was kind of falling in love with her around the time of the insemination. Yeah and she met also she met him in the water. You know you'll fall in love and you will get pregnant. There are so. Did you have any paperwork with him. And like the girlfriend handle the whole thing. I think it was hard for her at first because it was sort of like. What are these lesbians doing? Why are you doing this to me? And then and now we have. This amazing blended family and he's really Lee sort of he's a part of Wolfe's life we've gone to Mexico to see him and actually my family. My parents my brother his fiancee. My my in laws and all of Ricky's family are all going to be inside. Alita together for Christmas and so on his family has really like we were all together. Gather there in July and his his woolsey met his great grandmother Wolf. His grandmother has come to visit us. And I think that's going to be at least an annual thing like we love her so much. She's amazing his and she's the scientist she's really. She's a cool lady. She's like exactly who you want to be this new bonus number in your family and An and Ricky's dad is cool. Police chief dude. That was I think I really thrown by the whole thing really charmed by Woolsey and His Mom Came and it's just like oh what a sweet sweet sweet sweet sweet sweet life so you got incredibly lucky but like you didn't do any paperwork whether yeah but we did do paperwork because my friend way on ahead done it. So she had these papers from a lawyer drawn up and so we just had the same paperwork drawn up and it was kind of awkward because it was like. Here's this person that's giving you life. Yeah and so it feels like ungrateful and Weird and Western and all of that. But I'm glad that we did it because it it really carved moved out like what the boundaries of the relationship are boundaries. We'll just that we have parental rights fully. He doesn't parental. It doesn't have any parental rights of welfare. And I I mean that not. I think that was always sort of the intention. Yeah and that's like for his wolf safety probably well. I don't know that if if Ricky was like his dad. That will would be unsafe. But it wouldn't be the agreement or a scenario that we confusing for wolf. He at least yeah. Yeah I mean I think to me. It's like people. I think there's so many questions around it because I think we are and we should be skeptical in life. People are you know people are out to get you sometimes for sure and and again it's this balance of like being skeptical and being guarded and being open and being open spend. What got us our baby but then we also have to have the paperwork to protect him? I think there's also just something beautiful about going with the flow if things like I don't think I think as Woolsey grows up Yeah I think it's a it's a powerful positive thing for him to have this bond with his his his biological father and he's GonNa know that that's his biological father was always always and I think that that's like with our generation. We're so lucky that we've realized like do remember growing up and people will be like Oh adopted. Kids this divorce are this is yeah well gay kids are this and it's like you know what's actually this. All of the shit that society feels about anyone. That's not quote unquote normal. which everyone was he our family on board with this plan because they were excited? I mean my parents love deal so they were like this is a groupon re worried at all during those four months when you were back in the states that he was going to change his mind. No I we were always. I think there was always just this feeling that this was the way that things were going to go. We did go to a wedding with him. and China we so we actually the time that we met him this British friend of ours. We who met in Mexico fell in love with another surf instructor and so they were getting married when we were back. They happen to be getting married. We're back in seminated donating and so there's this big wedding and Ricky's beautiful and at this time. He wasn't like officially with his girlfriend yet. They had met but she was. She lived in Germany so it wasn't like she is moving to Mexico yet so but then there were all these girls that were throwing themselves at Ricky and we were like on the verge of insemination. I think we inseminated the next day. And and in looking into this we know that sperm if you save it up it it's more potent. Yeah Yeah Yeah so we were really like. That's right so so we're just sort of like the reason to cock block in my opinion so funny on that so fuddy that that's like a scene for movie you can just pick your. I'm writing a movie about it on wrong calm about meeting meeting my donor. Yeah argument here. It's too good. Would you like to play a game. Show that's equally as crazy. He S Zora. I think you both know. The answers vary yes. Okay so this game is called hypotheticals are you a Gabby. Are the contestants. I'm going to be some hypothetical situations. You can ask more questions about them. And then you'll tell me what you would do in that scenario. I love this game already. Yeah thank you. The first game is America's favorite game. Show would you stay with this cheater. Your spouse is an investigative reporter and in order to get the scoop of a lifetime. She she had to give a source a quick handy to get him to confess she goes on to win a Pulitzer. Would you stay with this day with that cheater. How quick candies really come? Come up a lot in this episode but I also get quick. I Yeah I would say realize the story. What was the story about? It was about contamination in meat. Also she saved lives contamination in me. No it was more like she then got people to get punished. I four contaminating the meat but it was morally Esley. Pulitzer is a good prize. I think anyone in this room would give a hand job for a Pulitzer true. All of our spouses would just have to deal with it. Because we'd have a Pulitzer on our shelves. Do people know that. That's how she got the information just you. Oh that's good. Yeah that's great yeah Yeah I'll stay too bad. She's been investigating you this whole time next mark and now you're in jail. Wait wait I do in this scenario Mareo. You're both serial killer. I don't trust this game anymore. I know that you shouldn't have a so. I was a serial killer this whole time and she was investigating me you. You should feel flattered that she gave me more than just one quick but guess what well he four she killed me. No you can't no. You cannot control the game. It was a very serious look married to get the information yes. She's very dedicated. Investigative Journalist List. Okay escape are you a terrible parent. Your child is afraid of the water. Despite knowing how to swim one day you pretend tend to drown so they will come in and save you. Unfortunately they choose to let you drown and now things are pretty uncomfortable. Careful yes I would say. Yes you are a terrible parent because what is dumb strategy. Also your kids. You're the water is probably rooted in something that you've done so you should go to therapy and work out what it is that you did because a kid kids are born with such bravery enjoy. I mean not a WHO knows maybe other kids have different nature nature and actually. I'm being really insensitive. But that's the character that I'm playing in this game is that is you are Wolfe's parent and Wilfie curious. Things Great. The kids are like I mean I do think that we come into this world with this open heart and then it's like kind of what we were talking about with the guarding and realizing that you can't be opening then that there is danger and that you can drown it's like yeah it's part of what makes us smart but it's also part of what makes us damaged and I think that kid needs to jump on the water and swam tried to do to drown which is reinforcing the fear point. That is good point Loyd. That is a really good point but while they was you drown they laughed. Oh wait and then you got your shelf and Dabbled Childhood and Yeah I a a serial killer and now I'm the serial killer from the last game and this kid is a serial killer said that this is the narrative. I'm sorry I think this game. Your kid is a psycho. Yes it is like a Damian like the omen child yet but actually chilly because they let you down for you guys to go into therapy and now you guys are doing really well. No I guess we weren't a terrible parent is yes. Yeah we were a terrible parent. That's fair but in in in your defense you're very good actor so so having like like pretended to drown maybe like a talent scout saw us yes and then put us on a TV show. Wow you're in therapy you've got a TV show. I mean sounds great and your kid is now surfing instructor who donates his sperm to a lovely lesbian couple event. Change Ryan where you're a good parent. Thank you so weird that was written like so final game our newest addition Zyppah. But I don't WanNa go sorry the day but this is the last question. Would you lie or tell the truth. Your boss accidentally sees you on a confidential email about who is getting laid off the list includes your favorite co worker later that day. Your favorite co worker asks if you think they're going to get laid off. Would you lie or I tell the truth how this is actually. Yeah they have cancer. I tell the truth. Why would I tell the truth? Why is my allegiance to the bus and we just gave me? They'll kill the Messenger. I would think like it'd be so hard to give someone bad news when there have cancer. Yeah it's like really shitty news to I. I wouldn't say that I officially new but I'd say like look everybody's heads on the potential chopping block like I think we should all be prepared for the worst that will actually reasonable involves will actually. I'm good person. Yeah that is how to beauty. Yeah that's good. I think I would say that. I heard that they are getting laid off. I'm trying to figure out a way. In which because I'm such a rebel. I'm trying to figure out a way in which I print that out that email out and just paste it like a cast list for a high school production in America. And I'm like we. The Workers Unionized Ryan. Look look at what's happening to Gawker I just like all fucking out Out that's great but you are now unemployed. Whatever but now but then I become like I go on twitter and I become like a worker's rights activist and then I I go on like I do a podcast tour? I mean this is very vintage Gabby of me but I would stir up as much trouble and publicity as possible. Well you end up on Ellen and so it all worked out. I don't wait. Did you meet her. No is problematic. Figure thank you so much for joining any. Yes we find you. I'd love for you to find me on the Internet. I have a podcast that I mentioned called Goody goody you could just find that where you find podcast cast and oh every Thursday night on. CBS At nine thirty. I'm GONNA show called Carols Second Act. I play doctor. lexie get Alani. She's gay she's she's a doctor she's brown I can't believe CBS. Thank you so much. Sabrina stick around after the break will be talking all about rejection Chian crime to just between us. It's time for topics topics. Hello xxx a little late to deliver you there. Hello just coming back from break. We never greet and we. We do need to be more friendly. Yeah like hey guys listener. You know it's all about us but let's check in with you so really. It's not all about us. It's about you the listener. Who is right now? Leaving us a five star review. Yeah and just like leaving. You know like a comment comment on our instagram which is at JBC you. PODCAST asked which I realized nobody knows existed. And if you could just like I don't know text the link of an episode to a friend. Yeah like and just let us know how you're feeling. Thank with that set. Let's talk about rejection. Sure Romantic social professionals. What you wrote on the paper he did? I like well because I knew we were talking about about like the sexual rejection right with our international question but I feel like everyone lives in fear of rejection. Dan and I have kind of changed my mind set on it in a big way as I've gotten older it's a part of life And it's so little well has anything to do with you. Yes you never know. What's going on behind the scenes? You never know what's going on in someone's psyche or you never know like what just happened to that person that made them reject you like. It might honestly have to do more with them than with you. I think sometimes people get really self centered and in their heads where they're like. This is definitely about me and like off more often than not. It's not about you at all. I almost feel like with the career that we have. I've gotten too used to rejection. Really where like yeah like I just I just expect it. I expect like everything to not move forward or that like projects don't happen or that I pitch things and they get rejected and I am wondering if I have overcorrected where now it's almost like do I even care about. It is really hard to get excited. Yeah earn point even romantic like it's really hard to get excited a professionally because even when a a good thing happens you're just like okay. But when is the other shoe going to drop. Yeah I feel like with professional staff might. My like ability to handle rejection is unbelievably high yet. I it is not as high when it comes to social stuff. Like I get bummed out if like I meet a cool girl and then like she. He doesn't WanNA hang out again. Same I think like like romantic rejection. You kinda like yeah. They're just not attracted to me or like professional. Isn't that like what what would be the most upsetting reason someone rejected you romantically because it used to be that it would if it would be like that they thought I was like cloud or arrogant but like I am so I don't know like I kind of like. Yeah I get it like a lot of times when people are not into me as a a friend or as as a romantic partner I kind of reached a place of like. Yeah no I hear Ya I I get it like not for everyone on because I realize like okay. Here's the thing that I came to with rejection. I don't like everyone every TV show and think it's good. I don't meet every person person and like their vibe. Oh super true. I'm like whatever the opposite of a people pleaser is like I'm sorta just like I don't like everyone. How can I think that everyone's going to like me? But I think that that's so useful in those moments when you when you're feeling rejected to be like it's a numbers game like of course I'm going to get rejected. Sometimes not getting rejected acted at all in any area of your life. Then you're probably not really trying you're pushing boundaries you're experiencing new things either. You're not trying or where you're just like a rich person who everything. Yes man. Yeah everything has just come to you so easily in life and like congrats. Like you're not relatable. I think for whatever ever reason I would be the most upset that rejection if it was because someone thought I wasn't attractive really. Yeah because I think that for whatever reason that's the thing on the most sensitive incident about so if if I found out that was the reason that I would be the most upset whereas I believe upset if it was like. Oh someone's just not looking to date or someone's not like like looking for something serious but people have types like people you know you might someone might meet you and just be like Brunettes. No I know. And that's a huge thing. My therapist is always said like she's always like he could be but he could only like tall blondes right. Everyone's like idea of what is sexy or what is hot is so different you could. It'd be like that's the thing is like you could see someone and say yeah. That's a beautiful person that happens to meal our. I'll see like a guy that I understand is objectively attractive. But I'm also like man I think it may be comes from the fact that I feel confident in my personality that in a way I haven't grown up feeling confident about my looks. I think when I was dating that was something that was still like a trigger point for me because you wanted to be like well whatever they can hate my personality analogy. They're wrong but at least they think I'm cute. Yes God that's so funny. I think if someone thought I was boring MMA MMA that would be the worst because when someone is boring to me I'm like Oh like I'm like put them in jail like I like I hate it I think it's hard for me with rejection professionally to not assume that that means that's going to be the case always well. That's the thing that's why it's so hard to get excited about anything. Like I'm like yeah like this is great but like when is it GonNa fall apart professionally right. You can get good news when you get good news do you react. Do you celebrate when when people are like. Oh my God you should go out to dinner and celebrate. I'm like what world I would I if I'm being completely honest I haven't had good news and a really long time. I know it's like I'm I'm not trying to be a bummer. But I haven't had good news probably in like a year or something insane so yeah I to me like the rejection has been mounting so much lately in where in the past. There's always been a positive mannion's come along with the rejection and that positive would keep me going. I really do think it's important to celebrate. And if I did get good news right now I absolutely would go to dinner and celebrate it but I have had just rejection for a really long time and it's hard because I did build up this like super strong barrier where I could get rejected. It will bounce off me deal and now I've run out of steam because I haven't had anything positive in so so long. Yeah and so kind of what I've had to do is I've had like focus on other aspects of my life right because in the same year that I've faced the most career career rejection I've ever had as well as losing more friends than I can count. I've also found probably my forever person and so it's like this really interesting balance. Silence of like okay. I figured out this one part of my life that I thought I would never figure out but then the other two parts of my life are in more disarray than they've been in in five years so it's like it's a thing where like I know I won't be romantically rejected again with incredible and feels really wonderful. But like you know I feel like I do need some more gas in terms of like professional just to keep going. Yeah I mean how can you control that. I can't and that's the other thing was I cannot control my career at all like I keep putting myself up for new stuff. I've I'm submitting to whatever I can. I'm starting new projects. I'm trying and like I. I have no control over it and and it's again like feeling like okay. Each thing is separate. Yeah it's not that like they're all compounded because I'm a piece of shit. It happens after that each individual rejection is happening for. Who knows what reason that's probably not related to any other rejection? Yes for whatever reason. They're all coming back as rejection. Yes at a certain point. You're like what can I control because like getting hired or moving to the next or getting promoted or anything his like you're putting your whole self and life and everything in someone else's hands. It's so shitty but I also think that at a certain point you have to figure out okay. Hey what's not working. You know like my can't just sit back and be like I can just like continue business as usual and just like hope. Something's going to happen. Like I've been trying to broaden then when I'm looking into I'm I'm trying to be open to new opportunities and and like have a bigger idea of what of what my path could be so I think it is like especially with like career stuff you you have to sometimes be like okay so something. Something isn't working. What is this ownership? Do I take what I do. I sure up to being a fluke and I think the same the same in romantic and in social stuff like I think with what am I okay so all these rejections are happening. What is the common component? What the common denominator and I think? Sometimes it's just GonNa be Shitty luck and I think sometimes you kind of have to like own up to it and be like okay like maybe I'm not good at dating. I have a friend who I think probably isn't good at dating and he just keeps getting rejected and I think that his his reaction is to just just stop trying instead of like really doing an examination of like okay. Clearly what I'm putting off or how I'm behaving is not helping me. Connect two other people right at a certain point. You have to like sit down and be like how can I change this. What about my personality is somehow off putting in this romantic situation? So you're letting you're are leading the rejection at certain points like not affect you but also taking it as notes maybe. Yeah or if you're interviewing for a bunch of jobs using the same resume or are using the same answers and it's not working. Maybe there's someone a friend who can look at your resume and tell you what you're doing wrong totally or even just changing up the resume just to Z.. Hey does that get more reaction yes and like socially. If you're having issues with friends like yes like you can have a falling out here. You can have a falling out there but if it keeps happening you kind of have to sit back in like M. I. Part of this I think you can also potentially cannot potentially be your fault but it can be like entering different stage of my life. Yeah Yeah and like examining taking a moment to examine why these patterns are happening and also yeah and also like you. Can't I don't know I feel like so many times. People are like this is about about me and it's not or it's eventually it's about a version of you know and I mean it can be something that is so easy Z.. To fix yeah like it can be something like just redoing your resume Or you know letting yourself apply to a job that you think. Maybe it's not the right Eh. Banding what you're looking at. Yeah engine your settings on bumble exactly so you don't need to overhaul your whole life and who you are but I think you can like go in and make little adjustments sort of experiment and see what what can give better results. Yeah and like I but you know. It's funny as I feel romantic rejection. If it's like a break-up but if I like try to date someone in there like no thank you I'm like yeah it's fine what's so crazy to me is like I have felt so rejected so I've been dumped so many times I've been rejected so many times And then literally. The Best Person I've ever met is the person I live with. Yeah so it's really. It's not like a bout like sometimes you like idolize someone and you'll be like Oh may reject me that means like I am a piece of shit really around the corner might be someone who's so so much better and see the value in you used to think that it was like. Oh all the good guys are taken. I didn't manage to get one in this amount of time. Now I'm going to have to lower lower my standards and that's not true at all because like the right person will not reject you thought every good guy was taken. I thought I'd have to wait out people's I divorce. Oh my God and now I've I've got a ten out of ten. Wow to make you either. Come in and tell us every time you've ever been a chance check. Binge acted a lot. Yeah in all aspects of Your Life Oh for sure for sure just part of being an adult and like living long enough I think so I think also being like a creative person you are naturally a little bit odd. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part but I'm a little odd. I'm also an introvert. I mean professionally. When you're creative you get a lot of rejections? Socially just don't align with some people yeah Romantically canticles moving around from place to place. You know you've been doing yeah. I moved a lot. Yeah I've lived in the Midwest on the East Coast Down in Texas is now in California so it's just dating. How crazy? Yeah do you take it personally. Every time that happens I think you know I think rejection touches as you like in this place. That's like not rational and you can put up a blockade but sometimes you can't really help it like if it's like a surface level initial rejection. It's not that bad but when you start to get to know someone or even like sharing your ideas creatively people really kinda get your vision. Then you get the rejection right. That's hard that's hard. It's like Gabby said like once he fit in the relationship and then they're like oh I know you and I choose. That is worse to me. Someone who just doesn't want to date amy. I'm like that's fine but someone who like I've been together with for like a year and they're like hey you know what I've tried it out and not for me then I'm like oh my gosh. That's yeah that's the worst. But you're like applying for jobs right before you got here. Did you feel like professional rejection. I know I mean I feel like when you're in the media media industry you probably have applied for like hundreds of jobs over your career. You don't take it personally after ten years when you get a lot of rejections I feel I mean just you gotta get you can't or you won't survive it. Yeah and that's just like an application that's different than like submitting a proposal posed for a project. Like where you're saying else like submitting a specific idea and I want to do this. This is my vision. That's a different type of rejection. I think so I can understand why you would take got personally sure. got a lot to think about. How would we rate this episode overall? Irate it ten added ten sperm syringes. What about dog catheters that what she said Catheter Dog Catheter? Yeah Yeah I just love. I love the story. Sorry I love like the the seeing him and just knowing. I think you're right. That's Sabrina has some sort of superpower about knowing people I think so too Russian next person will be right. It's very exciting I know. What did we learn? I think we all know what we learned in this episode. Which is ask whoever you want to be your sperm donor? Yeah I guess asserts if you don't ask you don't get as Ken Raskin if you don't ask you don't get I mean the sheer like like talking about rejection. The sheer like resolve resolve in being like. I'm going to ask him after. Knowing this person for two days I love it. That's so brave. Support it wholeheartedly. Yeah and what's our funniest part art. I like every time allison interrupt. Someone says you don't control hypothetical. Yeah Yeah that is are saying that up top so people know the rules. It was is the face that you gave the look that you gave Sabrina to be absolutely not. You're not in charge of this. was I would never want to contend with it. There has to be structure structures. Whatever I won't be there it is that's the end there? It is. Thank you so much. Sabrina Julie's for being our guest just between this is hosted by me and me Gabby done. Our engineer is Brendan Byrne. It's also composer killer theme music our producers to go weatherspoon and are supervising producers. Josephine Martorana Are Executive pretty serious. Chris Bannon just between us as a production of stitcher wolves. Do Yeah stitcher.