17 Burst results for "Ken Keesey"
"ken kesey" Discussed on The Glenn Beck Program
"The ray this is. This is the distilled to spirit also known as the bender gender. And it just means. I'm vodka and vermouth really. That's what it means to spirits and he completely different than oxy gender which means i'm high as hell all the time That's the real name. Yeah yeah deter gender this a good one grim deter gender deter gender. Ya yeah means. I'm a laundry soap. So i- legitimately fooled by all. I'd tell you about carshield. Here's something super affordable customize coverage plans with carshield. You know it's not affordable out of warranty cars that go kaput in the middle of the road. Car repairs are no joke. And if you're not covered when you have to get a car repair might as well take out your wallet. Kiss it goodbye. So don't do that. It's carshield i've had might truck covered by carshield for a long time. Now and i can tell you from personal experience it has saved me a boatload of money and if you've seen my butleigh it is big. That's a lot of money that they've saved me. Dr with confidence and see why carshield cars go farther. Call eight hundred six five twenty one fifty seven. That's eight hundred. Six six five twenty one fifty fifty-seven mentioned the promo code beck or visit carshield dot com. Use the promo code beck save. Ten percents carshield dot com promo code beck a deductible may apply whether you're man woman gender non conforming gender questioning gender or maverick. He can still join blaze. Tv blaze tv dot com slash. Glenn the promo code glenn hundred bucks office not mavericks obama. This is the glenn beck program in about thirty minutes It's the one year anniversary of the seventeen. Seventy six unites project. you remember. We talked about that. Believes been here in some ways. It feels like it's been a decade Bob woodson the founder and president of the woodson center Started this to counter the nineteen project We're going to talk to him. Not about bat but reparations and it's really important that you understand what we just did. A few minutes ago was might have been funny but it was dead serious. The point of that was nothing means anything nothing means anything its deconstruction of meaning goes postmodern is yes that we talked about years ago. Yeah lot so. They're they're deconstructing all meaning in everything. And so i want to have a serious conversation with bob woodson. Who is against the reparations. He's a black guy de against the reparations and as good case against it But i wanna play the post modernist. I'll show you why your argument doesn't work anymore. that's coming up. Also news on merrick. Garland. there is a very specific reason. He was picked for the The attorney general very specific. And if he's if he's confirmed trouble and i'll tell you about that coming up you picked because he's the best possible candidate is that goes back to. Yeah yeah yeah sure sure So we have that coming up also as well. Pat gray joins us now Pat your wife and you started a new cookie company. We did which is a delicious What's the name of it again. Casey can now used to be Scrunches yeah but you couldn't spell that can spell can't k. K sl it's real easy. It's real easy. Ken kesey once you know it. It's really easy. Say i would. I was thinking there was an ex and if you do the x. it'll redirect sexy okay so anyway. I don't know if you know this now. There are some things that in political correctness that ridiculous But i think this is one of them or is it in dutch supermarkets. They have just gotten rid of a cookie. It's it's apparently a very big deal. It's like our orioles. Oh no cookie. I'll can be without orioles in america. Would you agree with that. Yeah for chocolate chip cookies in dutch supermarkets. It's the joe biden coke and coca. John kokin shorter jovan. Kokin too good name. It's short you should name your your show. Yeah that's he's shown dot com. I'm surprised you didn't take their shortbread disks and apparently joe biden kokin translates to ju cookies. Okay gotten away with that. Yeah well i guess the the their ad l. over there which is the Watchdog group for don't dutch jewish watchdog group on anti-semitism. I wish the dutch watch grocery and the central jewish board of the nether link They have spoken out and say we don't have a problem with jordan going jim jordan coca so their version of the saying like school. This is this is exactly what's happening all over I can guarantee i mean. It's it's the dodge so it's white people who are like we know better than the jews. We're taking kokin off because it's offensive in the jews are like knows now. We don't have a problem with that like the redskins thing here. America native americans were like actually we. We really like it fine. But i mean when you say it when you're like hey pass those juke cookies over the sound good. It doesn't it doesn't sound good now so we got that going for him. We also are having the the the now they're asking for the jeep grand cherokee the jeep cherokee to change their name of cory are of course they are which was interesting. And if you read the article. Which i thought was fascinating about it. Because they they're like the native americans are now saying they want to know more didn't want jeep cherokee anymore and it was the head of the cherokee nation. The cherokee track did so proud to started on that seventy snell. They took the whole nation. They put them on that reservation. Yeah to go away there we have life. You know the tomahawk and the bone in the knife. Oh thank you but when you read the article it seems to be that the journalists are just like called up the cherokee nation and go. Hey guys are you mad about the cherokee thing like wasn't spit. It didn't seem to be started by the cherokee nation is like hey shouldn't be pissed about. This guy was like jeez. Yeah we're pissed about this. It seems like it was a generated from the site of the media. Of course it is just amazing. It's it is made by the way. Did you notice. Scattered showers journalism yesterday in the state. Department briefing yes did you. Yes do you have that audio. I have it here. I don't think i do okay. I don't think we yeah. Let me ee. Know she doesn't have it either. Okay hang on a second avenue. Just just bring up my computer here it is. This is fantastic now. I want you to know it's amazing. Yeah this is. This is audio from an ap and associated press journal demonstrates state department our strategy including the legislative strategy the strategy that of course congress is Has been behind has been working to good effect so we'll continue to work closely with germany. We'll continue to work closely with our other. Allies and partners in europe to europe's own stated energy security goals this claim credit for the eighteen companies winding down. All of this work was done. The previous administration oli office. I right are.
"ken kesey" Discussed on Rewilding Earth
"By little by the mid-sixties what had happened in the counterculture movement on the west coast sort of there was a Moment of Truth known as the trips Festival. I think it was in January 1966 when Stewart brand Ken Kesey and Ramon sender put together the trips festival at longshoreman's Hall and the punch that was a huge bowl of punch that was constantly being refurbished that was laced with acid and that's regarded by some historians as the bridge between the beat scene and the hippie culture and certainly people moved more out of North Beach and over into the Haight-Ashbury and there was a great thinker back in those days a man named Freeman house. He's no longer with us, but Gary Snyder and suck it up and interviewed him. Oh boy fifteen years ago when he was still living up in the mattole river region and he had really brought that whole County together around the Watershed of the mattole river and it created County of environmentally totally conscious people who understood that that was where governance if there were to be governance. It should be within the context of the Watershed but Freeman house had also been in the Forefront of the hole digger experience in the name is Barry Emmett Grogan founded the diggers and then that turned into the street theater. Peter Coyote was very much a part of that and I I met Emmit. I never got a chance to interview him. But I've interviewed Freeman and Peter talking about that whole phenomenon in the Haight-Ashbury and how that over a period of a year and half or so once lady started having babies. It was revealed that the women needed a more secure less. I don't know quite how to put it for netic lifestyle and was being practiced in the Haight-Ashbury in that was the beginning of the communal systems. And that was soon revealed to be a California was too populated and by that time too expensive to be able to afford to do the communal thing instead. There was a home East word migration into Northern New Mexico that was pretty profound and the communal system really evolved here and I was able to really expect Or a lot of the different communes. I was never myself a communard. I've always been something of a loner but I was fascinated and I had friends and acquaintances and many of the different communes each one reflected two different perspective. For example, Lama was very much involved in in remains actually spiritual center wage people can practice different spiritual ways of looking at things one called New Buffalo is based more on becoming self-sustaining in an agrarian sense. They raised Alfalfa, they raised cows they were able to make a living selling Alfalfa and milk and they were accepted by the Chicano Community to the extent that one of the guys who lived at the song New Buffalo, and actually became the mayordomo the majordomo of the acequia or irrigation canal up there which had been basically majordomo. So to speak By Chicanos for hundreds of years. And so there was a real there's a term here in New Mexico called mesti sake which means the mixture page there was to a great extent of real musty sake that had previously occurred between the Spanish who moved here first and 1598 and the wage blowing in dense. I look at the Pueblos the Indian pueblos like Gardens of Consciousness and I've gotten to know a fair number of these people as dear dear friends, very close friends and boy, there is a wisdom inherent in traditional indigenous culture..
"ken kesey" Discussed on The Archive Project
"In today's episode. We feature a conversation with to Oregon book award-winning writers who are among some of the most exciting writers at work today here in Oregon a frankly off. We're actually Tolliver second collection of poetry Spectra on the Stafford Halo award for poetry and twenty twenty and Keyshia Fishers debut collection of stories. When the Ken Kesey award for fiction. I'm excuse now to turn the show over to another award-winning writer and performer and Oregon's Poet Laureate a nice much gani a couple of months ago. I was conversing with a writer friend of mine a poet like my cellphone and one of the things we touched on is how one of the most challenging things right now with the world and our nation's current state is that the pandemic has required us to shift from time outwardly to more time with our interior, they yourself and however, it is that we are all individually going about that. This is a moment in our history where due to the forces at play. We have all been pushed to spend time with ourselves in a manner that for some of us dead. We might have no prior experience doing and whether we are being forced this task or loud this gift this opportunity to engage with internal conversation is the very thing that artists and I think Palm Early writers as it is the medium of words must be in practice and discipline with all the time. And so as many of us are greeted with this perhaps new challenge of turning to ourselves and sharing that internal time. I do think that perhaps there is much we can glean in turning to those who have already spent so much time doing this very thing. What does it mean to be with oneself wage? What does it mean to speak with oneself? What does it mean to listen and to respond in turn both to ourselves and To The World At Large when many of the things that wants took up space blocking out our internal voice are no longer here speaking. A few weeks ago. I had the wonderful good-fortune of getting to share my morning from afar with the author's key Jose Fisher and actually Tolliver two Riders here in Portland. This was six months into the Cove reality 3 and 1/2 months of the Portland protest and four days into our city essentially being shut down by the toxic smoke being blown in from the Oregon climate fires with still four more days of all them being unable to step outside of our home due to the fires raging across the cities and communities of the state we call home. I did not know what we might find ourselves talking about but I was excited to open a door and have the opportunity to listen to what these two humans might have to share about their lives and their art and as they both happen to be writers women black and the mothers I was looking forward to what many of us might gratefully be gifted from hearing the two of them talk in this world, which we are all currently trying to weather the best that we can and so I started how anything unsure might behave With a city surrounded by Flames with a good morning and asking Keshia and Ashley how they were both doing amongst the smoke hearing first from Keisha morning. Good morning. Good morning. How is everyone? I am I feel good. It looks a little better outside with all the smoke. I was expecting rain, but it doesn't look like we'll get much of that. But I feel fine ready to engage with you to today. I've never been so excited for green in Portland in my life. I feel you on that. We did you guys we survived apocalypse number 866 it's bananas. It's so open-ended right now, you know, not just like wage thing. That's that's happening in going on on our planet our country and in our city right now, but like specifically right now with the with the wildfires in the smoke is this scenario is this environment job? One in which you two are able to to do work to write to explore that or is your process separate from you know, being in the midst of something like this home. I stopped working full-time about two years ago when my husband came to me and said, hey what if you could focus on creating more and I said you have to ask me twice. I love my job. I was a social worker and I still got to go sub at the classroom at Head Start program where I worked but it was nice to feel like I had time to dedicate to my writing and truly what that meant was my work-at-home tripled because when I'm home the kids have tummy aches and pains they come home early more often from school and I was volunteering in the classroom or and I really had no time to write and yep. It's fine. I'm a time. I wrote the last book working full-time with four babies running a business out of the house or daycare. Right? So if I could do that, thought I can do anything with my new circumstances and then Corona landed in March and so the kids were all home and you know, it just meant instead of panicking. Let's rearrange some things. So I melted down that first day when they were home. I did I you know, it was in my closet. I was like heaven. don't know how I'm going to do this and then we took the children we made a plan and so I carved out time during the morning. We're mommies locked in office and writing if unless someone breaks an arm a leg of a dog vomiting, you know, let Mommy work and we made it happen and that's been my reality the children are here all the time, but I needed to Thursday. Take this one thing back from my family and I love them so much and they're so supportive but I needed to take my time and that's what I've done and I've been writing it's also has debt off been able to to stay relatively silent continuous over over.
"ken kesey" Discussed on The Archive Project
"Poetry and twenty twenty and Keyshia Fishers debut collection of stories. When the Ken Kesey award for fiction. I'm excuse now to turn the show over to another award-winning writer and performer and Oregon's Poet Laureate a nice much gani a couple of months ago. I was conversing with a writer friend of mine a poet like my cellphone and one of the things we touched on is how one of the most challenging things right now with the world and our nation's current state is that the pandemic has required us to shift from time outwardly to more time with our interior, they yourself and however, it is that we are all individually going about that. This is a moment in our history where due to the forces at play. We have all been pushed to spend time with ourselves in a manner that for some of us dead. We might have no prior experience doing and whether we are being forced this task or loud this gift this opportunity to engage with internal conversation is the very thing that artists and I think Palm Early writers as it is the medium of words must be in practice and discipline with all the time. And so as many of us are greeted with this perhaps new challenge of turning to ourselves and sharing that internal time. I do think that perhaps there is much we can glean in turning to those who have already spent so much time doing this very thing. What does it mean to be with oneself wage? What does it mean to speak with oneself? What does it mean to listen and to respond in turn both to ourselves and To The World At Large when many of the things that wants took up space blocking out our internal voice are no longer here speaking. A few weeks ago. I had the wonderful good-fortune of getting to share my morning from afar with the author's key Jose Fisher and actually Tolliver two Riders here in Portland. This was six months into the Cove reality 3 and 1/2 months of the Portland protest and four days into our city essentially being shut down by the toxic smoke being blown in from the Oregon climate fires with still four more days of all of them being unable to step outside of our home due to the fires raging across the cities and communities of the state we call home. I did not know what we might find ourselves talking about but I was excited to open a door and have the opportunity to listen to what these two humans might have to share about their lives and their art and as they both happen to be writers women black and the mothers I was looking forward to what many of us might gratefully be gifted from hearing the two of them talk in this world, which we are all currently trying to weather the best that we can and so I started how anything unsure might behave With a city surrounded by Flames with a good morning and asking Keshia and Ashley how they were both doing amongst the smoke hearing first from Keisha morning. Good morning. Good morning. How is everyone? I am I feel good. It looks a little better outside with all the smoke. I was expecting rain, but it doesn't look like we'll get much of that. But I feel fine ready to engage with you to today. I've never been so excited for green in Portland in my life. I feel you on that. We did you guys we survived apocalypse number 866 it's bananas. It's so open-ended right now, you know, not just like wage thing. That's that's happening in going on on our planet our country and in our city right now, but like specifically right now with the with the wildfires in the smoke is this scenario is this environment job? One in which you two are able to to do work to to write to explore that or is your process separate from you know, being in the midst of something like this home. I stopped working full-time about two years ago when my husband came to me and said, hey what if you could focus on creating more and I said you have to ask me twice. I love my job. I was a social worker and I still got to go sub at the classroom at the Head Start program where I worked but it was nice to feel like I had time to dedicate to my writing and truly what that meant was my work-at-home tripled because when I'm home the kids have tummy aches and pains and they come home early more often from school and I was volunteering in the classroom or and I really had no time to write and yep. It's fine. I'm a time. I wrote the last book working full-time with four babies running a business out of the house or daycare. Right? So if I could do that, I thought I can do anything with my new circumstances and then Corona landed in March and so the kids were all home and you know, it just meant instead of panicking. Let's rearrange some things. So I melted down that first day when they were home. I did I you know, it was in my closet. I was like heaven. I don't know how I'm going to do this and then we took the children we made a plan and so I carved out time during the morning. We're mommies locked in office and writing if unless someone breaks an arm a leg of a dog vomiting, you know, let Mommy work and we made it happen and that's been my reality the children are here all the time, but I needed to Thursday. Take this one thing back from my family and I love them so much and they're so supportive but I needed to take my time and that's what I've done and I've been writing it's also has debt off been able to to stay relatively silent continuous over over.
"ken kesey" Discussed on The Shawn Harvey Morning Show Podcast
"Would don't mess. Kevin. Write this down. About Ken Kesey. A. World. Renowned for her when? People come all over the world. Okay. Game so If. To phone. Okay. So, we're called Dolphin Davis he's. been. Concerned. Me That area. is a hub for heroin and they come from all over the world for this heroin in Kids Info, they say. Okay. So okay. So that would be kind of like your number one what's your number? Two neighborhood Info Philadelphia. I really hate brothers, but I gotta say South West Philly I wasn't an hour. Don't. It's just too hot and I. That's where a lot of someone someone stuff that you can talk. Is For me raise a daughter and stuff I don't want to do in South West it's just too hot. I gotta be an for me to being south west I gotTA. Community activists like I've gotta be in the community. So the kids know. Don't mess with me. I, got I, got. On. That's. You you. You're better off coaching football and being a reverend of the community 'cause ass get shot if you're. Right. Okay. So Kensington and South West Bobby South. That community Melito. Well, we have to stay away from. The MIC. On how to me? I get where? Okay. So it's to community that I'm I'm thinking about her wait a minute. Wait a minute. So we maybe we can get a bonus..
"ken kesey" Discussed on On The Media
"Without drugs is sort of what this personal growth movement in. The eighties was also attempting to my father gave me a copy of electrical lead acid tests us when I was in sixth grade and he said here's the history of your home. My mother wasn't so happy with that. He's he said the acid acid tests the noisy parties fueled by LSD where wait a measure a person's willingness to discover what was out there if you moved beyond the norm Orne was attest and there were people that pass through where people didn't pass to give you an example of somebody who passed some I am businessman just walking around the street came in for a buck. You got to see US they call our noise and the dad call is and and anything else that happened. This guy was in a suit had an umbrella and he got the Customary Cup of stuff about midnight. Tonight you could see him really ripped probably never been anything but drunk on beer but he looked around so all these strange people and he looked out of the spotlight was showing down on him. He saw shadow will stand up straight. Put the number L. over shoulder. He says the king walks. The king turns around food now. The King's bench and fifty years after the electric Kool aid acid test. We're still being tested connecting to something bigger something beyond what seems to be a profoundly. Glee abnormal conduct norm is back. Or maybe it's being fueled by the realization that the norm was never normal or shouldn't have been anyway anyway creeping back and so as LSD. If only to make moving beyond the more a little easier so much thanks to filmmaker and writer River Donaghy who brought us the story and then talk to us about it so on the big show coming up on Friday. We replay a favorite hour and an important one about about restorative justice and how it can strengthen and redeem the nation online and all happy new year.
"ken kesey" Discussed on On The Media
"From that that awakening conscious that he got like it was awake and to have sustainable ainable. He had to find sort of chemical free psychedelic experience in October. Nine hundred sixty six Keesey was picked up by the FBI outside side of San Francisco. He struck a deal with local law enforcement. Promising to hold acid graduation. Ah Public Renunciation of LSD almost a year before the summer of love. This graduation was a radical notion perhaps too radical. You may have gotten out of jail but the followers Chris that he had inspired that sort of grown up without him and weren't really keen on the idea of stopping taking drugs like the drugs. I think that the moment is that the hippie movement refused to give up acid and follow Keesey further. It's the moment that the the movement stalled and I think whatever last vestiges of they've movement still exist. Today they are still stuck there in that same place you know. Sort of leaning on the crutch of drugs. Why do you care so much about Ken? Casey so I grew up in Eugene Oregon. which is where Keesey sort of retired to with the pranksters in the seventies and Eugene is a place fundamentally changed changed bike easy? It's sort of the last enclave of the hippie ideals I mean my name is river I I sort of come from it and I come from a different piece of it. My parents were more this new age personal growth movement in the eighties there a full generation after keesee. It's right but some of that comes from Keesey. I think that creating this heavy heavy deepen real emotional group work without drugs is sort of what this personal growth movement in. The eighties was also attempting to my father gave me a copy of electrical lead acid tests us when I was in sixth grade and he said here's the.
"ken kesey" Discussed on On The Media
"His party with Karaoke. And easy of course idolizes KEROUAC. But once they got to this party it just it just. Didn't work. KEROUAC was pretty late in his life and an alcoholic. I've seen film of that. He looks very glum almost sour. And then after that they drive up to visit Timothy Leary Former Harvard academic. He's kind of an acid acid philosopher. Turn off your mind. Relax float downstream. It was supposed to be at least in Qisas mind. A meeting of the foremost psychedelic experimental of the East in the West. But it didn't work out like that no Timothy leary was in this big mansion and Millbrook millbrook with Rolling Hills and stone bridges perfect. It was lovely. But he's he and his friends roll up throwing smoke bombs off the top of the roof and and all the members of Leary's group to sort of ran inside scared leary himself was just coming down off of a psychedelic trip and was in a very peaceful place and and didn't really want to be involved with all that raucous energy that Keesey and his friends brought along and then go back to La Honda and start trying to cut together the movie that they shot what they would do is every week they would cut the footage together and then on Saturday they would have a screening of the weeks. Cut these big parties. His became very unwieldy until finally keys. You decided okay. My family's living here I have a couple of young kids. Maybe we should find another place to screen the movie and out of that came. These things called the acid tests. What was an acid test? I've never been clear on that. Well again the pranksters defy definition finishing a little bit. Everything the key was prototyping. Atla Honda this sort of communal experience. In this proto hippie lifestyle like the acid tests were the opportunity to bring that into public. It was like a church group by early Christians trying to read their message message cheesy. You had a gigantic party wild multi media experiences around the the San Francisco Bay area. This band the warlocks play.
"ken kesey" Discussed on On The Media
"Once they got back to La Honda. He said let's go back next year. Nineteen sixty four. World's fair is going to be happening in New York about the same time as the publication of his follow. Up to one of the CUCKOO's nest. This book sometimes a great notion. Unfortunately there's so many people hanging out around keys's house you know. They can't all fit in the station wagon so need something a little bigger and that's where the bus comes in. It's this nineteen thirty eight International Harvester School bus. They bought it for like like fifteen hundred bucks from a guy who had eleven kids and he had sort of outfitted it so his kids could sleep in cheesy and his friends cut a turret in the ceiling and put this big deck on the roof and wired for sound. There's the famous paint job. They had a bunch of day GLO paint floating around and somebody decided to throw a big smear smear orange on there and somebody else decided. Well we'll add a little red and add a little blue and a little green you know the thing with LSD is that it doesn't really inspire great fine motor skills so by the time they were done it was like somebody ate a bunch of markers and through a mop you have two documents that depict this trip. One is the electric kool aid acid test. Tom Wolves at the time that electric ruler acid test finally only came out hippy movement was in full swing. I guess the book functioned as this behind the scenes. Look at how everything started how the hippie movement became what it was Kizzie taught the hippies hippies before the phrase hippy existed before anyone knew LSD. was I mean they were in the bus and people didn't even know what to make them people. I thought maybe they were in the circus. Where like escape from the looney banner? Something what Tom Wolfe makeup them. Tom Wolfe saw that. Keesey was as quintessential American figure a little P.. T. Barnum little spiritual guru we actually spoke to Tom Wolfe. His favorite thing was here. Either on the bus off the bus Have you off the bus that you out of the greatest experiences human beings Keesey was striving to become the leader early entire psychedelic movement. What appealed to me? The most was just as news worthy goal for me. I mentioned that they were two documents. The other one Keesey and the Merry Pranksters documented their travels for movie that they never released. You had this this concept of everybody's movies that everybody is living out. A script. Keesey believed that acid could serve a way of recognizing your script and way to break character to live freely in the moment. A feel like you only come to this movie once.
"ken kesey" Discussed on On The Media
"Age of twenty seven. It also boosted his profile as a burgeoning acid messiah devoted entourage that he would later dub the merry pranksters pranksters began to coalesce around him. Jesus took some money from one full of the CUCKOO's nest and bought this house in Honda. California out in the woods and that house Donda became sort of this Proto commune with people flowing in and out and also had the LSD and he was throwing really good parties out there in the woods so people naturally gravitated weighted towards him. Among the Mary. PRANKSTER's neal cassidy a speed freak and the Muse of the beat generation inspiring the main character and on the road by Jack Harak and the heartthrob vagabond in Allen. GINSBERG's poem howl Neal Cassidy Secret Hero of these poems joy into the memory of his innumerable lays of girls in empty. Lots and diner backyards cassidy who would ultimately drive that legendary Gary Bus to get into the bus trip. We have to start in nineteen sixty. Three one flew over. The CUCKOO's nest became a Broadway. Play starring Kirk Douglas and so cheesy and a couple of his friends and drove out to New York to go check the play out and on their way back President Kennedy in Texas governor. John connally were shot from ambush. Today in a motorcade aide both are still alive but in very serious condition in the Emergency Roma the Parkland Memorial Hospital. And they're sharing sharing this very intimate moment in this collective space in the car passing through America in the small towns it gave cheesy understanding of the road trip as a quintessentially American work experience and so.
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"Well Danny Devito and Christopher Lloyd both went on taxi to ooh right taxes and then also Louise Fletcher and Jack. Nicholson both won Academy Awards. Best Actress Best Actor and Best Picture. Yeah it was. A very celebrated elaborated film. I think you're in this. Maybe wind us up but like you were saying earlier Gwen that like the stuff about authority winds down rather thank you. You got wind up kind of like the Authority and the power dynamics and like what it is to fit in and conform in the world is like one thing the book is doing and I think maybe is like what people remember but I and it sounds like we kind of shared all all of us who read it like a reaction to like the the gender politics of this book are messed up and I don't know that people have like carried. That maybe like they don't they haven't carried bat alongside with the like message about breaking free and like I I feel like the book is at war with itself in a way in in terms of what is re- remember four and what it's effective at do feel like it's it's the kind of thing that would only be like reevaluated. If the movie were to be redone yeah come out again. In today's think peace culture. I think at that point people would start to go back and revisit a lot of things but that doesn't really. Yeah I think that's I think that is very correct. I think the racism is there too. Yep I mean the. Racism is even more casual than the the sexism. Yeah because the racism is just like these rose stuff around its worst. It is Kinda worse because there. There's no thought given to it whatsoever. There's one there's another nurse who portrayed as like a better nicer nurse who's just called a racial slur the entire time. She doesn't have a name she's no whatever right and I I found that also very troubling. It's hard like I know that with historical book. There's sometimes a really good reason to take off your twenty-first-century glasses and put on nineteen sixty two glasses and try to read it that way. But when it's so embedded like this and you're right Craig like when it's when it's not remembered in this way it makes it all the more hard for me to get past that and look at what the book is quote unquote supposed to be about. Yeah you definitely in the racial interactions. It's it just seems like that sort invisible privileged like use the word of the day like point of view on the sexism gets more complicated in terms of like than a now but Forgotten the same whatever but it does but it does sound like it does sound like y'all found value in like the way it was written and and in you know in Brandon's perspective as as the protagonist and a lot of the characters are problematic as they are I guess they are alike very Very like fully sketched yet memorable Ryan also. The writing is writing. itself is very creative and psychedelic can. Rain is an interesting to read. The rating is great and the characters are so well differentiated like you really. It's a it's a very large cast of characters if people haven't figured that out by this conversation yet there's a a lot of men in this ward and they're they're really really well defined like you always know you never have to go back and be like Oh wait. Which one was that like? It's really clear the whole time. What does it? And that's that's a credit to the writing was going to say before about about then and now in terms of creating enemies or creating representations of oppression is it seems now with more like you know humane understanding of world human in some ways for evolving that way it's more difficult in quotes to create villains because without people criticizing and saying. Well you're making that person a villain because they are X Y and Z sure and so it becomes more difficult to demonize becomes more just to say becomes more demon difficult to demonize women and other minorities minorities like Shiite join it so much of my create. It's terrible but happily so so it's sort of I. I wonder if that has anything to do with the rise of science fiction readily demonize aliens. You need it when you run out of others. There's you need to other some fictional beings check exactly right Andrew. I mean I think that's true because it's like we need seem to need to create others and now it's like food into the the Superhuman Realm I guess now no longer can be safely done the human realm the WHO does the woman play on star our track Andrew. I'd have to look that you refer to Louise Fletcher. Plays your favorite win. ADAMAS her name. She is an alien. She's from the planet Beige. Your Nice has what does she do. She is She's she's okay. So you space nine commander. Benjamin Sisko goes to the deep space nine which is on the far frontiers of the federation. And they are going to help. Help this planet Badri which just like escape this fifty year occupation by this other force. They're GONNA help them. Rehabilitate their planet and rebuild their systems. And then maybe joined the federation when on the ready and then he goes into a wormhole and like talks to aliens. That are like a big deal in this planet's religion and so oh he. Is this unique figure in that. He is both outsider but he's also sort of ordained by the the people that these joins revere and then the religious institution which is represented by Louise Fletcher has like a lot of problems with that. Like had there's a lot of conflict to be like mind there and then she also also is just kind of power hungry looking to build up her own influence in otherwise anyway over. The course of seven seasons full of twenty two episode hour are along shows. That relationship is thoroughly. Might not say how you have to check out. She also plays Linda Blair's there's therapists. Who the exorcist? Partu were quite Louise Fletcher quite a career. Maybe maybe next time. We'll read another book that Louise Fletcher Start in the adaptation. Sure we can find another one. D Space Stein novelization. I was just GonNa say that next excite you should read a deep space novelization and the three of us will watch a deep sea. Signed episode. The Watch let's let's make Andrew Gwen even if it is a novelization of TV. So one moment of Star Trek not seen one moment. And even if you're interested I can. I can help you with that if you're not. Then that's also I think our forth overdue episode. So it should be about that I watched original show with my dad was a bonding dad. Thing not the time it was released reruns about the sci-fi channel re release them all the ninety s and dad showed showed us all of them and the movies and all that stuff. Dad Show L.. Show Glennon Frank. Thank you both for joining us. This was so much fun in chatting about the CUCKOO's nest west with us if star Trek Fletcher's career. I wish I could say this fun but I love playing with the boys the overdue boys if we're getting if overdue folks WanNa Find Y'all where should thank craigslist. You're cut off. You guys are cut off. Okay sorry sorry If overdue with folks would like to find us go to. NYPD appeal dot org slash podcast and check out.
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"Live in ways that I think would read as stereotypically feminine especially at the at the time I think that's that that is one. That's certainly one element of what's going on with her. The big scene. That mcmurphy makes this argument that it's because she's a woman and she is neutering them essentially It is worth pointing out that. I think we learn later in the book that maybe mcmurphy and the chief are the only people on this word against their. Will everyone one else. There initially at least check themselves in or were part of that process and then they choose to stay there. So part of what mcmurphy is bringing to these or what he sees that he is bringing to these guys like the will to go back out there and live again And the big scene that really sets him off is like a group group therapy scene where ratchet is encouraging everyone to weigh in on like one guy's issues I don't remember which one might be. Harding might be a different person and where they're just like picking him apart and you can see a version of that is just like Po potentially positive group therapy where someone talks about some stuff. They're dealing with and everyone kind of ways in But the version that we are at least told about or shown is it's very negative. It's very snipe he. It's very pecking. And that's the version that mcmurphy sees and says like how is she letting you all like cut each other's balls off is basically what he says. I like. You should not succumb to that. Your men by God like let's rule this place so that to me. Frank is like the book sets up that it it has to be a woman because it has to do with their lake neutered masculinity Yeah towards the the right. I just remember towards the end of the book and I wasn't Mark the page. It's a a harding. I think sesame like will whatever happens. At least we're we've become men again. Yes yes so. Yes even harding. Who I think is gay so yeah in there? Because he's yeah he says that that Yeah okay why when they when the one of the moments were mcmurphy actually Kinda shook and I don't know how it's portrayed in the film or not Andrew but they go. They like organize a pool day. They're all GONNA go hang out in the pool together And I think he talks to like the lifeguard if guard who has clearly had either he's had a bunch of e c t or He's I don't. He may have had a lobotomy. I don't remember But that guy like he is he should be the picture of like Macho virility and Murphy tries to like pal around with him as maybe a future ally in the in the hospital and then he realizes that that guy completely lost the fight. To someone like ratchet if not heard directly and that's that's where you see even though like oh I don't know if I can I don't know if I can do this There's there's that seems not in the movie. I think the closest analogue is maybe one of the therapy scenes where I think it's Cheswick click gamble. They've been gambling cigarettes over over cards. So Ratchet has taken it upon herself to ration their cigarettes. Let's and Cheswick is like I'm just I just want my cigarettes. I don't want his or his or his. I want my cigarettes. Because their mind. And that sets him off then everybody else starts going off and like people need to be physically restrained and I think that's the that is where you see mcmurphy one. Mike see kind control and power that Rachid exercises over these these dudes and also to is the first time. I think he gets himself into a situation. That is it out of his control. I think for most of the for most of the film. He feels very much like the ringleader and very much like he can make these guys do whatever he wants. which if you're setting ratchet up to be bad because that's what she does like that? Introduces the whole budget. Extra stuff but but yeah. I think that's the closest you get to the scene. You describe a craigslist maybe realized that that was so shocking and made me feel. The book was definitely when I realized how metaphorical was about how most of the inmates mates. Are there voluntarily. Because I I was actually surprised at some things when they were allowed to leave to go to that fishing trip thing. Like wooden nurse Ratchet WanNa keep much much more control and made you realize that the institution wasn't as locked down as a prison might be As you were a as one or I was originally thinking it was That and that made it even more powerful and more Again metaphorical in that. They were there because because of the way she wielded and abused their mental states to attain domination. Over over them. They could leave at any time. An fact spoiler alert a lot of them do with the end So that made it even more stunning and more of a commentary on society and certainly very early sixties and that he was saying like society. has this hold on us. Coming out of the fifties very conformist very regimented and the busting of the sixties saying we have to break through and break out of this. Yeah there was a lot of that in her. I think especially toward the end. I again I'm talking about the last twenty pages because those that I felt like the end of this book had uh had a bigger impact on me than all the rest of it combined But the way that it ends like sort of mic Murphy's last gasp is that he attacks her yeah and rips off her shirt and so her breasts are exposed to everyone. And there's a whole bunch of stuff about her nipples and let's sexualize her as much as possible and and then he tries to strangle her and I thought that it was really it was. It's a very fitting last act of his rate like the you you Kinda can't put it more succinctly than that. He actually look the revealing of her breasts comment into being very large. She's a middle aged woman is like I mean actually I just to say oh. She's middle-aged as you can't be. That sexual is nice thanks. I mean the the movie doesn't than it does to it. The movie does strangulation. Part does not do any of the plastic downplayed. Their fingers England started talking to you. Almost I mean it is very sexy. He I think he does that too. Because she's stre- she's called a robot like she. He reveals her her body. Show her she. Now she's just a woman and she's not she's just a woman that's humiliation for her because she doesn't want to be sexual is she. Doesn't want to be a woman in the words of this book. She wanted to be this power object. Yes yes and it also. I did have to sort of think about the war when they were talking about this because I think you could also read her as a symbol of fascism to that. There's this sort of like you know. Oppressive stay in line nine. You must conform to everything kind of overarching control them. Someone releases ray and then that person can only escape it through death like like I think that there I think there's there's an element of that as well. Although I was thinking a lot about which which war in which conflict they were talking about and I did there were there. Were a couple of times that that it was World War Two but then I also thought it might be Korea and it in addition to this being in the middle of the psychotropic drug stuff. It's also kind of in the middle of you know armed and conflicts that saw a lot of loss of life. Yeah he I think he tried to. He says he based you know some of the characters on folks that he actually really met in the. Va where he worked and took all those drugs Except for mcmurphy Who He liked talked about being this John on Wayne character that everybody was like hungry for who you know wasn't actually there Ms Ratchet was like based on a real person Ersan theoretically who he said he met later and she was smaller than he remembered This is from a New York Times article. Do you remember me nurse Ratchet. She said she was much smaller than I remembered. And a whole lot more human. I didn't know what to say whether to apologize or what. It was a tremendous relief to me to find that she didn't hold it against because you don't want someone like that walking around out there interesting. How was her name? Really Nurse Ratchet. I don't think so it was inspired. But you know no. I don't believe so sir she's like oh I'm the one that you base that character on. Yes yes yes okay. I imagine he would run into some legal troubles this person soon. After I'm disappointed frankly I wanted her real name to be wretched twenty. That's the name that survives like in popular culture. You're a nurse ratchet. I thought until I read this book. I thought it was ratchet with a t to. He's actually not called nurse Ratchet. She's called Miss Ratchet but in the movie I think she might be on That's the term that's become like a big nurse and Miss Ratchet. She's she's a nurse. Ratchet tip like from the perspective of most of the most of the people who torturer so if we're if we're winding being down I did just want a really quickly run down some of the cast of the movie because its star studded affair with like all these with all these actors who went and to be in all this extra stuff in the in the seventies eighties nineties. Oh Who who does nurse Ratchet because ratchet is played by Louise he's Fletcher? Who among many other things? I'm a giant nerd so I know her best as don't tell me I bet the movie it's not even a EH. She's a deeply manipulative religious. Figure on deep space nine for its entire run. She's disappointed you know Mars or she ends up now deep space nine the best star Trek. It's really great. Go Watch it Brad. Brad tariff is a billy he was. I've Creggan I know him best. I think is dot Cochran on deadwood but he also was in a ton of other stuff use wormtongue in the Lord of the rings is movies. Christopher Lloyd plays a character a day. devito plays Martini and he also played that role in the stage production earlier. which starred Kirk Douglas? I believe as mcmurphy. Douglas produce the movie kirk his son's connection right there. So those are those are the biggest biggest ones but yeah I I had forgotten. I think 'cause I watched the movie a lot of years ago like I'd forgotten most of this stuff about it and I didn't look anything up about it before forrest started watching it and I was like. Wow I know all of these guys. That's why..
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"Like a grounding of what the book thinks he's doing to affect change in the world. I will toss out a comparison from Keys Casey Z.. Himself from inverting his name WHO said in an interview that his favorite book was moby? Dick I think and he looks at mcmurphy is from an NPR article. From I think from I think twenty twelve he thinks about mcmurphy as an Hab and Brompton as a as a quick wig. Big Little Bit so if if you if you run it through that Lens and then maybe ratchet as the white whale or freedom is the white whale. It's hard to know that like then then you look at him maybe a bit more as a flawed tragic not a protagonist but a guy who got us. It's up different place different than where we started and we look at the cost of it again. I'm not like I do think that the book presents him as a positive force person. That is a thing worth questioning but I also think there is. Maybe if you apply that lens to it implicit critique of him inside the text also maybe I don't no no it's like we talk about now is about invisibility and non agency in life. If you are a minority or someone who has never been represented. I think this book is is saying at saying with complete honesty and we would say now misguided an UN- woke to use a word right now that these women are these are the women women's sexuality is the they're happy to do it because it pleases the men and they get a lot of pleasure out of it too and that's it. There's nothing more complicated than that. I think we're going to talk about the nurse Ratchet in a minute and that's GonNa Change the game with women a little bit but most all the other women are just like happy to coppee under mcmurphy basically and I'm happy to be there too so I'm not sure very complicated. Tell let me just play differently in the book than it is in the movie but but one of the big inciting incidents toward the end of the of the story is This young man named billy who has a stutter and has had you know issues with women in the past and the movie. It's like he loved someone from from afar and didn't tell her anything about it until he asked her to marry him. And then Bingo Bongos in the asylum. I guess so mcmurphy brings in women from the outside and they all Party and then one of them has sex with Villi and in the movie. It's entirely it's all about what that is like for billy like the woman you don't check in with her at all. It's not really clear whether she's like a a girlfriend of mcmurphy user. Just like somebody who he happens to know and you don't really even talk to her at all. This happens I it's all about what it's doing for for billion and relationship that he has with his own sexuality what is like for her as not important the one hundred percent this name in the book. Although I will say in the book I thought and Franken Craig. You can tell me if you disagreed but I thought that there was a strong implication that she was a sex worker that she they ran lucidly. Yeah referred to as as either prostitutes horse in the book. So I I think the implication is that he is calling up women he he knows. Did they mean that literally. Do you think I wasn't sure if that was like a little thing. He was just calling women pours. I have I was that was the confusion in the in the movie too because you meet her like he steals a bus and they go to steal a boat and go fishing heels of bus. I know he climbs up the chief and hops the wall and st and grabs the bus. That they're gonNA drive to some like sanctioned activity and they drive to the doc instead so they can steal a boat and go. The doctor goes along with them in the book. You meet the woman who Kayla alias Billy up during that episode and it's like and they go to like a trailer park that that Murphy knows pick her up and so it's not clear yet weather. She's his girlfriend or like a sex my nose or what I'd like to say it's ambiguous in the movie to you my read on it. It is my reaction to it. In the moment reading it was that they were probably sex workers he also has that he personally has relationships with maybe and that at like okay especially with her in particular like it seems like it is not just transactional with her even though it is very transactional from their perspective and and that he knows people that he can hire or yeah. Whatever I'm not sure? Yeah but certainly Andrew that vibe that you're talking about is the same like nobody cares. What candy thinks about any of this candies just there as a top in this though? It's again here. I go but it's made clear that every experience candy has his pleasure. Yeah her like she describes keys. Lovely when Billy and candy discovered in bed billy the guy with the stutter. His mother issues. They're they're cuddling together. Like to fat cats sated on milk and meat. He's like she's just as happy as they're like cuddling kittens all warm and fluffy and and she's just like thrilled to be there and she also makes made clear that she's has a thing for mcmurphy and just like Oh mcmurphy. I'll do anything for you. Yeah just is these are pleasant happy girls. There's another one sandy candy and Sandy. Of course who are just. There's no complications complication flawed. They're not hurting. They're just happy to be. Where also do I find it? Extremely mail the assumption that. Oh yeah you know a I think he's a virgin right. In his mid twenties would would so they wish that they would they would both be sated like fat cats in bed afterward. Yes and Craig to to push back a little on what you were saying. It's it's interesting because the moby Dick stuff like I was thinking about that also partly because mcmurphy has a pair of underwear. That has little white whale. There's only one thing that I was thinking. More that nurse Ratchet was a have and and that and that mcmurtry was the Whitewater ingesting. Okay not to go too far into like tenth grade. This is symbolism but the Chris Imagery at the end is also extremely intense. And and so okay for Librarian is in listeners. Overdue Tagline tagline is These are books that you should have read by now anyway. I just butchered it. But that's the gist right. Yes yes we're going to do a major spoiler right now for the end. Yeah if you don't want to hear it you should go ahead a couple of minutes but at the very end you know mcmurphy dies for the good of the rest of the people and the chief escapes apes because mcmurtry has because saying. Oh sorry doing that. So he he only has the power to escape because mcmurphy has given to him he sacrifice or he's killed but he sacrificed for the good of the rest of them. I mean like Murphy's choice I I mean the the Romden realizes that mic Murphy's been beaten he can't he can't stay alive to witness the triumph of ratchet. Yes yes he has to die. Yes otherwise ratchet would win forever but don't you think that that is a complete one hundred percent approval that of course he would want to die. There's no doubt yeah. Oh Yeah Yeah. She's very tidy. Yes very Cleaned up even though he fights mcmurphy fights because he's a life force and he says he makes about killing mcmurphy Smothering him and the pillow was difficult because he fought back because he is forced but yes. I think it's clear the book things Diet these even when he has the electroshock therapy he's laid out in come on can be anymore. It can't be any more than this. It doesn't get more heavy and so that AH pushes back on the idea that he is a flawed vehicle for improvement and is actually yes is their savior. That's a good point. Yeah I WANNA give you. I WanNa give whoever wherever you read credit for that but I I think I can't no no that no I mean that's total easy. said that himself critic who is the. Let's set now that we know yourself. Now we've talked about the end of the book. Let's go back to the beginning and make sure we we give folks a rundown of what is the ratchet mcmurphy fight like. How does that were that start? And where does that AH go. Yeah because ratchet like that becomes kind of idiomatic later that used to describe like a nurse. Who is you you know? It's interesting that that's the that's the enduring thing when this when mcmurphy does so many crappy things yes we're supposed to remember how how bad the nurse was but Yakov what Gwen do you WanNa Kinda start us off like. What is the the state state of play? And how does mcmurphy mess. It up. So nurse Ratchet rules an iron fist and she oversees as the ward she makes all the rules she's cruel and cold and does not care much about the therapeutic value of anything she shame people into falling into line and really like obedience and servitude. And you know staying on the straight narrow path is her is hurt nectar. It's the only thing she wants out of these men On the ward. And so she so she you know is is in charge charge obviously of this please. Even the doctors sort of do whatever she wants And when mcmurphy comes he decides that he is going to challenge her for dominance of this ward because he sees it in her and the thing is very manipulative. She's she's expert in powerplays. We've probably all ran across people. People like this at some point. And what's interesting. Is that as we said before. Brompton the native American is the narrator of this and you never get any other view of her like you key easily could have put the book like he saw a moment of vulnerability in her or or something but you just get this pure. She's part of the combine. She's part of the society to suppress anything. That's doesn't work within her personal well. That's because the because the chief also you know he gives us all the background. Like how she is specially selected like three or four of these black men to be her boys on the ward. And that's we're like some of the books like latent when not so. Racism makes its cell phone but she is like carefully selected. These people will and is you know doing whatever she wants regardless of what the doctors want and the chief can be anywhere and listen to people and hear things he's not supposed to and you're right Frankie. Never here's her like you know or or watches her like put her head down earner desk go. Oh God this is so hard. I've really I really believe in the power of good men and the only way to get them. There's this way there's even know. She is a robot lady with big boobs. who was designed to crush us like that? A US the truth of the matter for and Murphy's I think like they basically bet him the other dudes on the ward who previously had a leader named like harding. Right is like. I bet that you can't break her control over us without you. Know getting shock therapy or lobotomize or both and and he's like I'm I'm GonNa do it here. I go right. I mean the premise. Is that ratchet the nurse the head nurse of the ward is in full control all she gotten all. The inmates are inhabitants under her control. And they believe it and mcmurphy comes in the life force. That's going to disrupt that for sure and then it becomes a battle between the two of them in lots of ways but I was going to ask for God. There's well I guess that's one way I realized that how this isn't going to be taught in high school in some ways or just be a book about she's almost like representing management or middle management. And this sort of like power power offer power sake when with kept coming up for me was that how and I think all of us might encounter this in. Our work lives at some point meeting on the personalities we work with where it for Ratchet Watch it. It's not about like actually actively trying to heal these guys or figure out a way to make their lives better. It's solely personally about power now now. It has nothing to do with anything else really. They're just vehicles for her own power. It's like amazing. How little it has to do with her actual job description when you really think about and think about how we've encountered that like when you realize everything you do has nothing to do with pushing forward the mission of what you're supposed to be doing? It has completely politely to do with your own personal sense of power and that's it isn't that crazy isn't that amazing but then then the second part was is there. A reason that ratchet has to be a woman because I was also thinking in this book. It could've been a guy. Hey guys enough women women enough to make an watch I think. Yeah I think in at least in the in the movie my understanding of movie Rachid and of the staff and everything's things. It's Kinda flattened a lot and you don't you don't get quite as much like as many examples as you do in the book like why. She's bad in specific things that she's done but the the way that she attains and like practices her power is very soft power and very like subtle in manipulative..
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"Mcmurphy even and get on the scene like we get this like. I had no idea what my experience of this book was going to be. Based on the first chapter. So with the chief where it's your inside his head. He's talking a lot you know. He is suffering from schizophrenia. And Paranoia or something something or is at least exhibiting those symptoms. He is on and off various drugs. It seems and he is like lending this whole book. Kind of a a surreal quality that I think I read that. He said he wrote some of it while he was high. On peyote or something. So like he checks out where he talks about the like the world has this big machine and everyone anyone who's broken gets tossed in one of these institutions where they try to fix you and he also like everyone who works for the hospital is maybe their machine people and they are installing machines inside you to control you. It's all part of a thing. He calls the combine which I guess is supposed to be like society. Yeah and the rules at places on you and he talks about the fog to. Yeah go ahead frank. I think it's interesting so you both you and Gwen said like I think he is reliable narrator At the of what he hears and sees but yet you which I think actually is one of the primary Mary reasons to read. This book is the way it's written in that surreal ish psycho tropic. St- way about he'll be talking about what he's hearing hearing and then he slides into a moment that you can interpret his Dr- drugs kicking in that he was given to by a nurse. So we like he'll be looking out the window and commenting on the birds flying around or Hobie saying the fog's rolling in. He'll be able to see the circuitry in the walls. are here the combine. And you really know right away which is attributed to the writing that. Oh now we're in his drug addled brain that sort of Segue segue from his reporting of the conversations. He's hearing and you sort of understand that's actually makes him very poignant and very likable you it's also a tribute to the rating. I think that we're calling someone a reliable narrator who is like describing you know. Fog Machines is that are controlling on people's actions in every way and there's things in the floor and that there's wires coming out of people and he can see the wires sometimes like like he's not your traditional reliable narrator and yet he feels very reliable. So you gotta give Kinky some points for that yeah sounds like it. Sounds like contextual. You key does a pretty good job of letting you know the ways in which he might be unreliable so you can account for them a little bit more uh-huh yeah yeah pretty but you have to get used to it you have to like as you read it you start at just stating that. He doesn't say because there is no other narrator other than Brompton. He's not saying out now. I'm going to segue into a drug induced hallucination. Sure start trusting his voice. Oh the poor guys actually just give it a pill or his whatever his illness might have been may or may not have been we know also know why most of these people are not in our. We don't really know why. Why most of these guys are in this war? To begin with. We never know what Brandon did in quote. Get there which is interesting cheesy to do right. He almost makes the point like like. It almost doesn't matter in some ways if you're any to create different right and you're in there. Yeah we get some we get some background like it's scenes scenes throughout the book where he has a memory of his family or something like that like he served over to I think so maybe he has some form of PTSD. That's that's kind of under-discussed and he talks a lot about how his father who was a chief Married a white woman and then took her last name And him like said he's a native American as they say the book Indian. Yeah Yeah and then He. And then that gets rolled into the government taking the tribes land. They built a dam and so like his name aim being taken from him is is related to the government taking their property and then when Brompton as a kid attempts to confront these people they treat him like he's not existence that morphs into the narrator that he is get a grip seen that he's a little boy and these like white people come to discuss taking the land whatever and he's just scared and intimidated that he gets angry enough to sort of want them them to know because he over hears them which is the theme of the book over? Here's all everything talking derogatorily about what they're going to do and he gets so angry. He's like they're going to hear me and he starts yelling feeling about their how they're wrong and they have no reaction or realizes he's not even being heard and that was that was. That was harder to go punch. Yeah yes the movie doesn't have it doesn't it's not told from the chiefs perspective it if it it follows mcmurphy around the most because he is it's just like the catalyst for all the stuff that happens in the in the story but The I think the best scenes in the movie are similarly kind of from the chiefs point of once he does begin. Speaking to mcmurphy. Does that that happens in the house. And it kind of it. Conflicts a lot of that stuff and SORTA condenses it into a similar thing but like the chief talks about how his dad was was like a big. A big guy like nick mcmurphy is a big guy not necessarily referring to stature but just didn't like the way that he lives his life and the way that people are kind of like drawn him and and he's got a charisma to but like by the time his dad dies he is like it's mostly alcoholism I chalked that too. Yeah yeah he would drink out of this bottle and really it was the bottle drinking out of him and and by the time he died not even his own dogs could recognize him. Oh Yeah Yeah. They do the flashbacks in the in the movie. No they don't really. They don't do flashbacks. It's all kind of you know you you it starts when mcmurphy comes to the facility for the first time and it's a similar thing you know he's come in from prison. It's left. I think a little more ambiguous as to whether he's you know quote Unquote Sane or not. But I think the opinion of most of the medical professionals there is that he is faking it. Am I correct. Yeah just kind of linearity goes through the story from beginning to end there. There's not a lot of jumping around and and certainly there are no like drug sequences or any anything thing where the movie tries to get you to like question. Any of the stuff that you're seeing or hearing so am I correct that so let's get let's shift focus focused to mcmurphy so I think we can kind of get into the plot of the thing and then get into kind of the relationships of the thing but he is. He was convicted victims of a rape right. Yes that's a Tory. Rape of a fifteen year old is in the movie and then the synopsis. I read too. Yeah so he comes in as ask this man who's GonNa shake up the ward and is he crazy it doesn't matter and right off cubs such such joy for life. Yes Schwab Vive. Yes Riemann knoll and so like I think something that we we've been talking. Really kind of positivity acitivity about what the chief brings to the book and I was really initially turned off by like man this knowing that Jack Nicholson is the star of the film minutes minutes. This big character that is cemented in the twentieth century Canon. I'm like Manam I just going to have to be on this. Guy's side like idol. I am not ready to be mcmurphy friend and hang with him for the rest of this book and for me. The chief provided a good antidote for that but he really comes in China's like he's a bad dude that I guess is going to make our lives better anyway. Yeah I think they all think he's the coolest dude in the world raised eighteen. We've been joking about it a lot but this truly vis books attitude toward women is so depressing. An appalling every woman character in the book doc is a complete disaster. Either they're power hungry. You know repressive crazy. People like nurse Ratchet or they are man-hating in your man loving too much mothers who are trying to smother their their poor men who are just trying to live their lives and trying to you know the ruining their sexuality in there making them into Mama's boys or they're just really seriously every single woman in this book is terrible and I. I think that the way that we are supposed to think that mcmurphy is a hero is directly related to that right like who cares about this girl. It's very vague in the book. They never talk about it. Well in fact I would argue that. They probably think it's great because look at with his amazing way with women that he has exactly right. I mean first and foremost like mcmurphy. Not supposed to be a life force of positivity and and freedom and all those great things like that you know that in the middle early sixties like sort of like the counterculture rising sort of this guy driven thing and that's for sure so it's interesting to read to read it now and see what Gwen just saw and just discussed but like it's it's interesting enough though because he does talk later about his first sexual experience mcmurphy and what is it. He's like ten and the girl was eight and he said she knew things like you know season women didn't know like and that she really enjoyed it. But this is the thing that's interesting to me like like why in that vignette itself is what's negative about it because he's basically saying this girl was there was no downside. She wasn't raped. She enjoyed waited. She had a great time. He had a great time. He was introduced to it as a great time. Grains is are narrowing at me. 'cause I'm just I'm Devil's battles advocating in here. But I mean this is as as he describes the experience. Just WanNa make sure okay right through the you know he is not reliable at all. It's very very possible that he is lying about all of this interesting. But it's presented is completely uncritical and sure to children. That age can have sex and it's no problem it's ridiculous regula. That was problematic to say. The least yeah. I bet it's definitely as a as a twenty nineteen reader. It feels problematic because you're also viewing viewing it from the Lens of a character that you are watching you know degrade women or talk about women in ways as an adult that like you you can. If you apply that backwards it makes that feel like a weird thing to talk about. It doesn't feel like just a guy sharing his introduction to sexuality it the like it's part of a narrative of conquering and things like that that right he's supposed to be a very positive life plan. You're saying that part I get it looking back. But he's like I think you're meant to see every experience he has as a as a triumph of pleasure and of you know. Our our animal needs and our intellectuals I mean he's well he supposed to be a force for good right because he because he blows into this he blows into this facility Ludi and he's supposed to be like opening all these men's is to write life is really all about exactly. And he's there sceviour truly. He is a Christ figure he is definitely portrayed trade as A. You know an uncomplicated force for good there and the uncritical I that is turned toward all of his sexual exploits. No matter who they're with or what age any of the participants recipients are or whether they're willing or not we really don't know and don't care he's just presented as positive positive positive. Well so let's get. I do want to make sure we give our our listeners..
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"I haven't seen it. This is interesting though because size is is something in sorry. Sorry if I'm jumping ahead here but the the author plays around with size allow right. There's a lot of sizes metaphor going on here where the narrator is somebody who is physically weekly very big but he feels very small and then he grows throughout the course of the book like. It's interesting that that's what. The criticism was focused on because size is so relative teja right because size matters. I'm just confused. The you know why he saw the play and liked it but but then one of his criticisms of the movie was that he didn't like Nicholson like because his stature didn't match. Yeah it's not like the Gary sinise is like great hulking hulking specimen of humanity. Like why would you to both of them on and being obnoxious. And like you know the heck with Hollywood that Lsu. Let's he was like this could have been just as dismissive of Hollywood period. There were still reports that he thought about his advance for the film and things like that right right so who knows this thing. Then I could imagine Nicholson's in this movie over almost any other actor of that period really so let's get into the book. He wants. Who wants to do the like top line intro Gwen? Well you're pro at this. Come on what does the setup for this book. Okay so the setup I kind of just WanNa be like dudes or doing dude. Things women are doing bad things to the dudes. And that's what this is about. The setting is a mental hospital in Oregon. It is an interesting blend of very old school techniques like electroshock therapy like lobotomy and drugs or sort of just coming into the picture and you kind of are introduced to these bigger wider larger themes that were starting to talk about by the people who are on the ward and so our narrator. It's the stories told him first person the narrator is a guy who's nicknamed chief broom because he sweeps up his real name is Brahman chief Brum from your And we learn a lot about what's going on in his head and a lot about his backstory but he also is kind of a great narrator for this book because he's more reliable narrator than some of the other patients might be a because he is pretending to be To not speak into not here and so he adds a lot to the story of his own observations Because a lot of people are saying things and doing things that he is privy to. Because they think that he can't understand them right and so there's this sort of big disruptive force whose dude mcmurtry mcmurphy. I'm going to do that the whole time mcmurphy. Jack Nicholson or not who comes to the ward and begins instrument disrupt things and he is portrayed as Seigne probably we think it's up for interpretation but my reading of it was that he was saying he was on the word because he's he's trying to get out of his prison sentence at a work camp and he thought that being in a mental ward would be easier than working the fields and and so he comes and begins to really mess around with everyone on the ward especially nurse Rachid who is the embodiment of evil womanly. unle evil. The big nurse. A big nurse capital B. Capital N.. Yeah big in a lot of senses of the word frank is making gestures. Figure these boys know what Books before we get injured. Craig like Fonzie. So it's good. You're really the New York. Public Library is really here. Hey everybody hope you're enjoying.
"ken kesey" Discussed on Overdue
"This is a head gum podcast well. Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should have read by now Hey everybody would overdue. It's.
"ken kesey" Discussed on Psychedelic Salon
"Of its existence the realist is featured many up and coming writers such as Norman Mailer Ken Kesey Kurt Vonnegut and Joseph Heller but back in the sixties and seventies for many of us the realist was sort of the adult intellectual version of mad magazine. If you're young and alive back then well you most likely remember seeing some of the realist projects like the bumper sticker that said fuck communism and the wonderful Disneyland Memorial Orgy poster and of course there over the top satire about the Kennedy assassination that was so gross. I don't even want to think about it again but it was funny at least if you enjoy satire Paul crasner once said that English was his second language but laughter was just I and I'm here to tell you he made me laugh many many times but more than that he also became really good example for many of us who are now old guys because even though he was right in the middle of some really exciting times in the sixties and seventies and well you hung around with some truly heavy duty characters he nonetheless survived long into old age in obituary that I read this morning closed with this so I asked him how he'd been able to survive while so many of his contemporaries like Timothy Leary Lenny Bruce Ken Casey Terry Southern Hunter S. Thompson Allen Ginsberg and most notably ably his fellow co founders of the Youth International Party the hippies and Co conspirators in the Chicago Seven Conspiracy Trial Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin well. All those people now have died. How did you survive simple? He said I've never taken any legal drugs and for now this is Lorenzo signing off from Cyber Delic space be well my friends..