1 Episode results for "Kelvin Kelvin Harmon"
Big Blue Big Board: Matt Harmon of Yahoo! Sports talks wide receivers
"Hey listeners. This is Luke Thomas show hosted m finding if you like mixed martial arts and combat sports. You should check out our weekly show. The enemy our each Monday. We speak with the top athletes enemy from world. Champions two rising stars. We also bring you in-depth analysis on technique in our Monday morning. Analysts segment we talked to some of the brightest minds in the game. Plus, we answer your questions regarding the latest news and headlines of the world of professional fighting. Find us on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody tonight Patel editor in chief of the verge. I host podcast every week called the verge half. My friends Paul Miller, indeed or bone. We've got a rotating cast of characters from our entire site, which is about technology, how it impacts culture, and how that is all a big cycle that causes us to have a wide variety of feelings. The you can listen to every Friday we've done over three hundred episodes in six years since avert has been around. But you only need to listen to one the latest one to get caught up on everything. In tech news virtuous is on apple podcasts. Spotify everywhere else. You listen to podcasts. Check it out. Will welcome TV. The big big boy podcasts. I am Dan Zuta joint here by Chris flunk? Chris how you doing today? I'm doing the specially well today we have fries for everyone. We do. We have a guest someone who's going to break down a bunch of wide receivers with us and that is net Hormann writer analysts of Yahoo. Sports dot com also known for reception perception, which you can find on fantasy footballers dot com met. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much guys. And yeah, I mean, this is obviously the perfect podcast to be talking about wide receivers as as this particular team is very much in the news right now for for big wide receiver, moose, I think we will have a lot to talk about a lot of different angles on pack. Your this morning. You had said you didn't wanna spend an hour on your own podcast trashing the giants. So we thought you give you ours. I appreciate it. Yeah. I don't wanna I don't wanna spend an hour. Trashing the giants on my own podcast. So I'll go on different ones and like spend fifteen minutes here fifty minutes there. I think that's a much healthier way to go about it. Yeah. Well, we we spend quite a bit of time doing that. Especially over the last couple of weeks. So let's start with what has gotten us to really talk about wide receivers because about a week ago. We wouldn't have thought why receiver would be something the giants would need to think about but it will be going forward. So let's start with Odal Beckham. Now, I think one thing when you of cover a team, I think is especially to fans you kind of lose context around what else is going on league wide. So you kind of over look some of what is happening on your team. So just as someone who wide receivers more as a whole just tell us how rare owed L Beckham junior is. I mean. I mean, unbelievably rare, which is why this trade is so startling an especially given what they got form, which I know. Dave Gettleman quotes were hitting the Twitter timeline this morning, and he was pretty much saying it was an offer they couldn't refuse. Dave. I mean, I think you really could refuse amid first-round pick the not just the earliest Brown's third round pick. But the the second third round pick that they owned this coming year and a box safety who's basically just the downgraded version of the guy. You just let walking free agency. I think you could probably have have refused that offer. But again, that's just my opinion. But going back to Beckham I mean, yeah, this is a player that I don't say this for too many players, but he is on a clear hall of fame trajectory, and I say this for not many players in the NFL either in terms of wide receivers. They're very few guys that I think actually truly dictate coverages, you know, obviously beyond just your vertical threats who make teams adjusts. Deep down the field passes that are gonna be coming from teams number one receivers at really dictate I have to double these guys on a decent portion of their routes. I have to you know, conc- that a player across the field is going to beat me in order for me to stop this player. There's a really I know that terms like double coverage. I mean, even people talk about triple teams, which never happens in the NFL. But because then you really would be conceding yards and points. But he will talk about who's going to be double covered at all times. But there's very few guys in all the years. I've studied wide receivers that I've noticed that is a sustainable, you know, game by game consistent effect, but Odell Beckham absolutely one of those players, and that's just again accounting to what he does to the defense without even thinking about what he does is an individual player, and he's one of the best wide receivers in the game. If not the best when it comes to separation route running I think it's Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham is the two standards over the last five years that I've been doing Recep. Perception, which you mentioned off the top is too wide receiver charting methodology that I came up with right track. Route running how often each layer runs each particular out often they get open on each route house, and they get open against different forms of coverages. And I mean Beckham is still pristine as elite in these metrics. I mean, he owns the two best success rate. Verse man coverage scores over the five years that I've been charting back in his rookie season and this past season. So there's there's really not been any falloff there. And by the way, he's never finished below the ninety eighth percentile success reversed press coverage. So there's pretty much nobody in the NFL. It's better at getting off the line of scrimmage against press coverage back. I mean, this is a truly rare elite player who makes everything around him better. And it's it's hard to overstate what a loss it is for the giants. What a gain it is for the Browns and just to give some people who might not know, max work. He was one of the first people to look at Odio Beckham at LSU and say, hey this. This kid's gonna be something. He broke my methodology. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially early in the NFL too, or he really even had the catch, you know, in which to national media heights that I don't think he ever saw coming that. I don't think any of us really saw coming matter. No matter how good you thought. He was going to be coming out of college. And I did think he was better than prospects. Like, Mike Evans that came out at your that went higher than him. I thought he was pretty much. I mean, right there with a lot of really like Sammy Watkins, and I thought Beckham was right up there too. And you could see them early and L, showings, at this was a player that was getting open, you know, again, like the ninety ninth hundred percentile in terms of success rate. Verse man covers even before we had that big breakout. Catch. He was a guy that was beating defenders weekend weak out consistently getting separation, and that is who's been throughout the entirety of his F O crew. I mean, really the only thing that slows him down is injuries. And that's about it and quarterback play when it comes to the box score. So. With that. Now, we know what the giants. Are we using an obviously they cannot replace that. Because of how rare that is you cannot replace Oto Beckham junior. So let's talk about now what the giants have left on the Russ or with what they were left with after the treat and something they added us, let's dive into sterling shepherd. He's someone who I mean. I think we all as people who watch in cover the giants. Like, a what a yes that slot outside versa to the not so much going to be really number one guy. So is there anything that stands out to you Incirlik shepherds game, I really like sterling shepherd. He's another player that going back to their college film. I really really appreciated. He was a player who showed the ability to get open against man coverage. I if you still has the best success rate verse man coverage score among all prospects that I've charted so he's definitely another guy that like Beckham cr- not in the same level of Beckham. But creates that easy separation gets you runs. Clean routes is a good all around pro and he hasn't necessarily developed into a star wide receiver. But he's definitely a really good high end contributor that. I like a lot. He's had several good seasons here again in passing offense that I do think has been hampered by bad quarterback play. And he's not just your run of the mill slot receiver, like, a, coal Beasley type. I mean. This is a player who going back to two thousand eighteen season in receptor or two thousand seventeen season excuse me in reception perception, he posted a fifty six percents success rate on nine routes of seventy percent on the post routes. He is a player who can get vertical can get loosened make bigger plays. You also is really strong at the catch point. I think that's probably the underrated part of his game. Is it not only is he got gets opened with clean route running. But he's got who finishes up there with like an eighty one percent contested catch score. And that's very good for a guy that isn't one of these big hulking receivers. Again, he has the aspects of timing of when to get his hands up there to win the ball in the air. How to just? Shield off defenders despite not having the biggest frame, you know, he profiled very similarly in terms of contested catch receiver to guy like Micheal Thomas, and again, I mean, they're frames could not be any more different. So it really is all about technique Huss or the player like sterling shepherd. That's why you know, the giants aren't totally sunk at the wide receiver position with him still there. I do think he is an ascending young player that maybe it another step. It'd be a guy who handles one hundred twenty to one hundred twenty five targets now. And that's not so bad. If you're someone that really wants to see him produce. But the question really is for the giants are is how how are they going to manufacture passing production outside the numbers? You know, how are they gonna manufacturer more downfield passing? Because again, that's not really the epicenter of sterling Shepard's game. He's more of that clean route runner over the middle. And I hope they do continue to use them in the slot. More outside just on occasion. Because that really is the strength of his game. I think they're. Is a lot more questions beyond Serling shepherd in the giant passing. Who again, I do think is really really good young player that I hope we don't get too caught up in trashing the giants not remember this is still a very good young player. You mentioned how important his technique was now is there anything technique wise or anything of that that you see in his games a slot receiver that translates to potentially more reps on the outside because the giants just signed someone who plays the slot even more which will get into golden Tate in a minute. But I just want to see if you think shepherd has any untapped upside. As a true wide receiver. Yeah. I think so I mean, I wouldn't rule it out again. I do think that his strength is what he does slot. What he does over the middle of the field. So that would be where I consider him to be used at his most awesome appoint, but he hasn't been a player. That's been a total schlub as a guy against press. Coverage. In fact, is thousand sixteen he had a seventy six percents. Exasperate verse press coverage Makati thousand seventeen he's right around sixty seven percent. So those are both above league average scores. So I don't think he is a Randall Cobb type player who like if you played him on the outside is just absolutely not going to work someone like a Jamison Crowder who's exclusively a slot receiver. I think he can get open against outside men coverage corners, he gives that really good detail route runner most of his career has been as a slot receiver. Which is why I think most people will say that the signing of golden Tate, dusty Ling, credibly redundant. If feels like they already have that player. I think both of these guys can take some snaps outside at flanker. Really what the giants will need is the split end x receiver Beckham, even at different points of his time was playing a lot of flanker instead of playing the ex receiver position, which helps you get that free released helps you. Face less press coverage on route two route basis, so they're losing just an outside receiver in general. And they might have these two guys as options to step up at the flanker position. Really what I think they'll be looking at in the draft. Especially is who's that guy that we can get as a commanding outside threaten. And honestly, the the question though, that comes to mind this this down to to brass tacks of you really think they've Gettleman has a plan. I mean, he insists that he has a plan. Right. It looks like right now they're collecting a lot of over the middle weapons. A lot of guys that are going to be used on short passes, golden Tate and sterling Shepard whether we think they can especially shepherd more. So the Tate I think can be more successful outside can be guy who can get down the field a little bit. But most of his downfield success has come out of the slot. So I don't know that you're necessarily going to be wanting to run sterling Shepard on post nine routes coming off the coming off the outside. So are they just conceding? The fact that ally manning at this point. Though, they still think he's good, which I don't share that opinion. But Dave clearly does there are they just going to concede? The fact that even though we still like him. He's not an outside the numbers hats or he's not downfield passer. Are they even going to look at that need in the draft. I don't know because right now they have three weapons who do excel over the middle of the inevitably grim. Sterling Shepard in golden Tate in his that just going to be the focal point of the offense. And of course, saquon Barkley coming out of the backfield as a good short area receiver to I don't know. They might not see the same Nita for outside receiver that we did. Yeah. Possibly they might be okay. Within a dot of like five this season. And that just might be how the offense goes. So you brought up golden Tate a little bit let let's dive into hin because even if they're not redundant of Tate and shepherd. I think a lot of their straits do overlap and part of that. I think we've brought up the possibility of as much as you said, and we also like sterling shepherd that he's in the last year of his rookie deal. He might not even be. Giant in twenty nine thousand nine we don't know that. So let's get into golden Tate. What you've seen from him over his career. I know he didn't really fit super well with the eagles when they tried to work him into the offense. So what is he right now at this point is career? This kind of got on my radar a little bit. When my colleagues res- paler tweeted out before free agency that a guy like golden Tate or Adam Humphreys is going to be asking for ten to fourteen million dollars per year on the open market people really trash that. And maybe it's because a lot of people don't know who Adam Humphreys is. And maybe that was mainly the the backlash of the tweet, but for golden Tate. I mean, obviously, his run with the eagles didn't work out at all. I thought that was a weird trade for the eagles because they clearly need vertical threat. Not another slow or see you're here to get. You can come back to the same point that we just made with the giants. I think Nelson angle are and golden Tate a lot of their strengths overlap. So it wasn't confusing. Trait of the time and often we see wide receivers outside of Mario Cooper. Who is definitely a bit of an exception to this rule. Why was he was not necessarily switch teams in the middle of season or even late in training camp? And then immediately comfort up with their new team. It's a lot to figure out especially if you have no familiarity with the quarterback, I know by the way, especially if that quarterback is also influx with injuries as he wasn't Philadelphia. Because I think what people forget about is golden Tate. Not only was he a good player in twenty seventeen. But he was still on pace for a great season in Detroit before they oddly just shift him out. He was on pace for a hundred catches over eleven hundred yards. He was averaging more yards per game than at any other point in his Detroit career. So it's a sense two thousand fourteen his for season there. So to me, I thought the Tate got a little bit disrespected on the open market. I mean, he ended up with a good deal from the giants. But he's got an even though he's thirty years old. He can still really contribute. And I again, I hope that the. Shade. It's being thrown onto the giants for the weird signing that is golden because of the archetype player that he has a relapse of the Arctic player, Shirley shepherdess doesn't discount for the fact that Tate. I think is still a really good player who just kinda has a nasty stink on him right now because things didn't go well, Billy. But if we rewind you know, to back in September October nobody's talking about golden Tate as a guy who's about the fall. So to me, I think that again, he's not he's not the guy that I prefer to be on the outside at prefer that to be throwing shepherd if one of these two that moved to that flanker position. But he has still got I really do think in play. I think in a, you know, not necessarily look taking the rest of the situation of the context is a good signing for any team yet. The giants do have a couple of guys who might be able to play that x receiver position on the even ridge of a two million dollar original round tender, which wound up being causing some confusion because it was. First round pick to Corey Coleman and overnight they resigned. Cody Lattimore, should we care about either of those two guys probably not I definitely don't care about Cody Latimer at this point me. You know, he's a guy who was people really liked him coming out of college. I was one of them. I thought this this comparison sounds bad now because he also didn't turn out to be good fro but back in two thousand fourteen or two thousand thirteen Michael Floyd. But he was going to be a really good NFL player. And I thought Cody Latimer. Look exactly like Michael Floyd it his college tape and again, either one of these guys ended up being good at a player. So maybe that tells you something, but they're straight overlap. Yeah. Right. I mean, I guess so, but like in terms of cutting he's the guy that people really like coming out of college. But the only thing he really ever developed was you know, a lot of training camp hype and special teams play. So by the time that he's out there is a third receiver for the job. Playing that extra Seaver spot. They're just kind of wasting a spot on on offense. There's really nothing that Lattimer is bringing to the table as an actual receiver, especially when you're such an eleven personnel heavy team. Now, I think there is a case to be made that the extra Seaver position is a little overrated or you can get around not having a great player there. If you think back to at his offense in two thousand seventeen with the Minnesota Vikings, they primarily ran through a flanker wide receiver Seth on digs a big thought receiver, Adam Phelan, and I think that, you know, going into two thousand eighteen it was very fair to say that you know, out Beckham was their plus version of Steph on I love step on days. But beckons obviously a bit of better player so used their plus version of that guy and inserting shepherd sort of develop into their Adam Phelan and even Evan Ingram. Could chip in doing some of the things that Adam the'll did as well. And. They were really just not going to be all concerned about the extra Seaver position. Just like Minnesota really wasn't running out. Michael Floyd who were just talking about back in that season or a guy like Liqun Treadwell who nobody really has hope for developing into good pro at this point, though, I think that there's a reason there's a bit of an maybe they can do a downgraded version. They could have been the upgraded version of that. Now, they're definitely be the downgrade version of that with Tate and shepherd as the slot and flanker. And really just not all that worried about that extra Seaver position. But I think you gotta have something out there. You can't just have Cody Latimer again, maybe that's Gordy Coleman. But his only real showing as an ex receiver did come with the Cleveland Browns. And it was an awful show. I mean, his rookie year is one of the worst ever that I have in reception perception history. He's down there below sixty percent success rate. Verse man, coverage just not a guy that. It really showed a lot of you know, a knack for the position. So maybe he takes some massive leap. But I would be super skeptical about that nicer. I I'm at least open to the idea of caring about a Corey Coleman. You know, bounce back to being at least a contributor. I'm not holding out hope that he's going to be a star. But I think they have to address that at least a little bit in the NFL draft. Again, the giants like disagree with you on that notion. I kind of feel they disagree with all of us. That is clear that is very clear. So before we get into some of the draft guys might have stood out to you. I wanna talk to you about little bit of your philosophy. You have in grading some of these wide receivers and just other pass catchers specifically, I wanna talk about your book on drops. I know this is something you've talked about in the past. And it's something I agree with you with. And it's something that I think at times over the past two three years there have been giants fans who have been disappointed in Beckham and sterling shepherd this year. Evan Ingram, especially this year about how many drops they have. But could you just kind of walk us through how you view drops. And what it actually means just in the the bubble of valuing what receiver does. Yes. So I wrote a piece on my website back Debaecker, banter dot com about wide receiver drops negativity bias if anybody's interested in kind of reading my full thoughts, they can find that. They are still searching you'll be you'll be able to figure it out. And I. I think that one thing that's interesting to me is that gonna come back to that negatively by Beckham's actually, a great sample because you mentioned this. You know, someone tweeted to me what I was taught when I was tweeting out these great reception perception stats about Beckham about how much separation he get somebody replied, you know, he drops too many easy passes. And I looked up yet three drops of last year. Like, oh, wow. You know? I mean, what what what an outrageous number. I know in previous years he's been up there like eager something. But again think about that in the grand scheme of all the greatness Oto Beckham brings you know, if he's a guy who's going to be targeted a hundred fifty one hundred sixty times something like that. Yeah. He's gonna drop passes. I it's just a reality of playing the position. I think that one thing again, it is that negatively by is that we see the drop especially from a great player, and we have that very visceral. Negative, reaction and human beings just tend to emphasize negative events more so than positive events such typical some that you're gonna find reading any sort of brain science. And I think that that negatively by six with us when we see those drops, but we categorize those in a much different way. We categorize, you know, a great curl route. It's run on a second down that gets you a first down. You know, you're not gonna have as great of positive reaction to just your run of the Bill playing even take it away from just a catch like oh Becca running a tremendous Robin draws two defenders. Yeah. And he doesn't get the ball thrown his way. But somebody else does your brain is obviously not crediting Beckham with that. Because you don't see it happen happens on the field. But you don't watch it on the Sunday and process it all that same time. But if they target Belk on a slant, route, you know, any drops it or whatever your brain is gonna mmediately take that negative, and and really it's gonna sit with you. So I tend to try to look. Beyond what a wide receiver does beyond just when they're getting targeted. And that leads you to really under emphasize drops like for some players people will bring up to drop the ball too much. Everybody brings up Ted Ginn. But then you failed to mention that Ted Ginn has made a positive impact on the last two offenses at he's been on Carolina. He was a good player in New Orleans. He's been a good player to despite the fact that he drops the ball. He brings verifiable rare deep game ability that not everybody brings and other players that people bring up to, you know, you'll bring up Greg little or someone like that Bill little, you know, he the reason that he washed out of the league is because not only did he drop the ball. But he couldn't do anything else to make his Trump's worth living with somebody like an Odell Beckham Leica. Ted get you'll much lesser extent. They meduse something beyond the drops to make those drops those negative place where living with and I would just much rather emphasize what a player can do over what they can't do. Awesome. So vol, we get you down. Let's. Talk about some things that players can do. And as we look to the draft. I'm not sure if this is it's not a strong elite wide receiver class. But I think through some of these players there's a decent amount of death and all of them probably bring something that can contribute to an NFL offense. So as you've been going through your scouting process through these receivers who has stood out to you so far. Yeah. One guy that I was so one thing I'm really focusing on dementia with drops another thing that I've really honed in on the wide receiver position is not necessarily, you know, giving players pass fail grades on some sort of archaic NFL standard of what we think players should be able to do what they should do. But really properly categorizing them into roles. I've mentioned a ton of this podcast of difference between the X receiver the flanker and the slot receiver. And I think that some of these players that I haven't necessarily been all that high on like juju Smith Schuster. A great example coming out of college. You know, he was a player who exclusively played on the outside wind up on one side of the field. And I didn't think that he had the vertical ability the necessary like the great route running to get off press coverage to really hack it as an outside receiver in the NFL. But what I failed to realize was when I failed to do is be more imaginative with the role that he could be in. And I think that that was and again, we've seen him be a totally different player for the Pittsburgh Steelers. He's been that big slot receiver flanker guy. Not at all the position that he played at USC. So I think that's one thing is watching these guys almost more concerned with what role are they gonna play where they gonna fit within the context of that role more. So than just who is good as who is who is that at one point in that I've immediately been drawn to from that perspective is Nicole Harry out of Arizona state because I think he shares a lot of similarities to juju Smith Schuster. I think if you're going to draft to kill Harry, you're gonna wanna use him as a big. Flowers. You're gonna wanna use him as a flanker, you know, very much like Smith Schuster, even like later career, Larry FitzGerald the way they've used him. As almost like a pseudo tight end in a way, I think that Harry could be a good player that doesn't fit with the giants. What they need. I was mentioning got over stock slot receivers at this point or using exactly what they need which nothing. Receiver. Let's keep that aid dot down, man. Now, let's keep it under four be totally in the Gabbard zone. I think that that that he's someone that I'm really drawn to in that way because I don't necessarily think he has the ability press coverage to get off outside defenders. But I do think he is tough. I think he's rugged over the middle. I think he separates really well against nickel corners against linebackers. And again, that's what we've seen a lot of what she's missed Schuster's done can good after the catch. He's been hard to take down in that in that fashion. These also been good at the catch point in those are two verifiable strengths at Harry has. Now, if we're looking at receivers if the giants probably need to look at I think a lot of people will point to decay met Klaff is that type of guy who can be that big extra Seaver. And I think that's certainly possible. He needs to do a lot of development in terms of just running, you know, more routes than you necessarily. But also there's a lot of ways that you could use a player like that. You know, think of how? The Cleveland nobody wants to praise Hugh Jackson team ever. And I don't want to either. But I think there's a lot of credit that you can give them for how they use. Josh Gordon coming out of the NFL after not playing for free years. They dropped him into a position where they don't necessarily just throw them out as the extra Seaver, but the use him as a flanker they move around the formation. And you know, it's not like Josh Gordon was at the peak of route running technique after spending three years away from football. And almost like a very Ralph player at that point. I think that's where decay MetLife is at this point his career. You can find ways to use these receivers if you want to create vertical production just have them run slants, curls and nine routes and post, and that's about it. So you're going to be limited terms of what you can ask a player like that to do. But I do think there's a lot of value in a big play ability in a big play receiver like that. And last another guy's really caught my eye. It's keen Butler and Butler. I do think of all these receivers in this draft might have. He definitely. Has dropped problems that I think people need to get over. Because to me when I look at him, despite the fact that he's a big hulking receiver guy gets off the line of scrimmage, very well. I think the giants are looking for receiver who want. They knew want to get off press coverage not the same way. But in a similar fashion to ho how Dell used to do it. I think that he came Butler is probably at this point my favorite to do that. I think both the giants and the Steelers two guys who have traded away these top end number one receivers, I think they'll both be looking at Butler, you know, towards the early second round for the giants or the early the late first round for the Pittsburgh Steelers that this is the guy that I think could maybe develop into a number one Sieber Butler would have to appeal to Dave Gettleman who has said multiple times that he believes that football is a big man's game and life receivers don't get much bigger than king Butler. Well, look at the two player, and I I hated this. You people might know who follow me that I like to say, I'm in a complicated relations with. A Carolina panther. So. What you guys are what you guys are with Gettleman right now been there. You know, I I'm not surprised by. I mean, I've surprised on the Beckham trade. But I'm not surprised that the football world has seemed to turn against a Galvin because I think that his tenure in Carolina left a lot to be desired and his approach to the wide receiver position was a hundred percent that way. I mean, he went back to back with Kelvin Benjamin. Devin funchess who are these slow lumbering lack of separation receivers, I think funchess got better throughout the course of his career. Whereas Kelvin Benjamin got worse. I actually do think Devin funchess's in interesting signing for the for the Indianapolis Colts on a one year deal the paid them a lot of money, but it's a one year deal. Who cares? But I think that he went back to back with those big hulking receivers. Maybe we see him kinda run that back here with a player like keep Butler as you mentioned clearly as the guy thinks that the balls of big man's game. I mean, yeah, he would that would fit within the way he's drafted wide receivers. At least in Carolina. His anybody. Really caught your eye aunt denied each have guys that we like personally. Kelvin Kelvin Harmon outta NC state, Dan like JJ or Siga Whiteside at Stanford. And he has a metric he likes us for wide receivers which target yards added and mom the king of that much. India's abella? Yeah. Yeah. Isabelle is really interesting. Obviously, I think he's he's a player that could be that mid round sleeper a two guys you mentioned with our Sega Whiteside and Kelvin harm. And I think will those guys actually share similar questions, which is just you know, are they true separators? And I think both of those guys unlike a player like kill, Harry, they're straight. There's their strengths are best suited for the outside. I don't think they necessarily like you can't necessarily say every receiver who struggles to get open on the outside. You have to move them into the slot. I think there's there's a mindset of physicality that I think Harry has to his game that I definitely think translate city inside. I'd now are Whiteside especially he's a guy who is consistently in contested catch situations. I think you you do see some hints of technique. But he definitely that's the play. He plays almost like he's a smaller receiver at releasing from the line of scrimmage, but then odyssey plays like a big receiver when he gets to catch point. So that's interesting to me. I think that there is some ability to hone that instinct that he has to be a separating wide receiver. And maybe he's a guy like a Mike Williams who I thought to me coming out of the draft a couple of years ago. People saw him consistently in tested catch situations. But you know, they been they assumed that he doesn't separate. No. Of course. Mike Williams separation ability is not up there with the top of the league, but he separates. Just good enough. To max also, then have a maximizing trait as a contested catch wide receiver. I think that's sort of the discount aversion, which you could get with the player like JJ Ortega Whiteside or maybe even Kelvin. Although to me, he profiles more your typical possession receiver. And maybe if the giants are looking for a wide receiver who is gonna play on the outside. But isn't a vertical threat maybe Harmon is in in that regard that type of player, and of course, obviously, we can't discount the fact that he entered right name. I mean. All name team this year. Williams and rocky sin. Exactly I that. I think that's all we have for you. Thank you so much for joining us, and everyone who's listening know where they can find you and your work. Yeah. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me again, it's really fun team to kind of dissect not just what's going on their depth chart with wide receiver position. But just kind of wear the league is that is a whole with this decision group. Of course, I'm very biased because I'm so fascinated by it. Because of course, I do study wide receivers with the reception perception methodology, if you wanna check that out the best way to do is just on Twitter and use the hashtag reception perception, you can find the graphs charts the data that I'm putting out their links to find it where you can where you can purchase access to the data through the fantasy football ultimate draft kit. And while you're on Twitter. If you wanna follow me, I'm at mat? Harmony underscore B Y be thinking that cruciate. It you guys can find podcast wherever you get your podcast. Please rate review. If you have not follow on biglou view. You can follow me on Twitter at Tampa Zuta fell Chris onto there. At rector MK. I thank you guys for listening, and we will talk to you again soon. My name is Spencer hall by name is Jason Kirk. My name is Ryan nanny combined. We form the shutdown full stride. Tron keep telling you this forecast is technically college football podcast. But it's also a show about care disaster regional grocery stores. We live Tennessee Batman homeowners associations bears in video games. Pittsburgh Batman the hell of being transferred a group, text unreliable legal advice. I mean, there's also some actual football discussion about coaches, having huge contracts coaches making terrible decisions or coaches, saying really stupid things or the NC double A's saying released. Yeah, there's lots of stupid things in this big dome. Beautiful sport time Arkansas decided to use a captured feral hog as a mascot, and it escaped and it wound up killing seven rattlesnakes a pig and a Coyote, sometimes we talk about okay village, it with if you wanna take college football exactly as seriously as it deserves taken come find us on apple podcasts Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts. Like this one this down. Full cast. It's not voltron unless it is.