20 Episode results for "Kelly Wells"

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin talk merits of Cody push, AEW-NXT ratings stalemate, NXT-Raw-SD invasions, NJPW, more (11-07-19)

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

1:59:49 hr | 1 year ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin talk merits of Cody push, AEW-NXT ratings stalemate, NXT-Raw-SD invasions, NJPW, more (11-07-19)

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Well Hello Torch Faithful. This is Kelly wells host of WT talks talks and x t every Thursday. You can hear me. And my rotating group of annexed loyalists banter about the highs and lows of the booking the progress and young talent and the the big takeover matches hardly pageant provides annex t all time statistics Tom Stop shares thoughts from the live tapings. Justin James tells us which talents will be wasted most on the main roster search. Pw Torch and apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch daily cast asked schedule at POW torch. DAILY CAST DOT COM jeers. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad News is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly proudly multiple ask if anybody noticed you mow the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance which of course we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states or situations. It's cutting into your exercise time. It stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind wind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life you want to live. CB medic targets your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients audience plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with. CBD Matic Available Online at CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease now pw torch and spreaker. Bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Ling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship. Talking current events in pro wrestling in our thoughts are with this headline today the gap is gone eight. Wfan exte- in a tie in the Wednesday night ratings and exte- edging eighty he w when the rating and a w edging Annex T in viewership but basically a wash. What do you make of that time after the big drop-off drop-off last week? The same number of viewers watched two weeks ago live during the head two hours or same. DVR Of those live shows. The same number came back so the viewership is almost identical between the two shows. But a big shift from Awa to annex t this week Yeah I mean it's it's It's interesting I think. Probably some people make more of it than than than I do whether that's the case of aws recouping a little bit less an annex t gaining a little bit more from people that were were watching Ron smackdown smackdown this week and hearing about An xt and seeing the promotion there and then Aj being there this week or whether it was a case of the The programming bringing bringing more people from From an xt there were previously watching A.. B. On not sure but either way I mean I think aws. I think probably would've liked to have seen the number rebound a little bit more than it did. But it's still a good number and I think they'll probably go up next week as well given that. the cody pro the trauma. This week I thought it was a sort of thing that makes you wanna see. What's coming next? And they've got the pay per view unusually Most wrestling companies get a bump after their After of their paper views in the ratings and manatees standpoint. You'd you'd expect a little bit of a bump given. They did give much for promotion to annex t this week on On Ron smackdown and they really had any point Up until this time so I think in in both instances I mean obviously a little bit better for it's definitely better for Franek Traffic Steve. But I think they're both within Near sort of fine rangers given what they've been doing Recently and ultimately in in both cases while while there is sort of this fans and you know fan interest in D. head to head competition the ratings. Also what's important is What the networks are are are thinking about them and in an x t is in better shape than they were in an aws has been in good shape? So you know they're still doing for for for two Two products doing Doing comparable ratings is your sense that if both all of the wrestling and annexed in the top fifteen rankings in eighteen to forty nine adult demo that both shows are fine and both companies and both affiliated networks will be happy with viewership in eight nine hundred thousand range and top fifteen rankings eighteen gene forty-nine. I don't know what they're looking for the AWA draws a better damn also helps them relative to USA Actually they're actually tied this week. Eighteen forty nine eighteen forty nine and eighteen to thirty four year old male eighteen to forty nine year old male. Everything just ended up a wash. So is that was that as a as a AH A was that result of an x t going up more or Awa going down more. Let me pull that up Let's see so annex t last week did a point two eight in the mail. Eighteen to thirty four demo and W. Two point two eight and they both did appoint three to this week. If we go back to week one. It was a three to one margin. Leave for a W. so actually in that demo both show Abo- stayed the same so the gain for x t was in a different devil. Okay so what about the eighteen to thirty four though. Yeah that's where I was giving you so eighteen. Eighteen to thirty four and x t went from point two eight two point three two and Awa one from point two eight two point three two but in the mail eighteen to forty nine demo. They want was killed last week. With a point one five in jumped up to a point four eight so they tripled among thirty five to forty nine year. Old Man. Interesting Okay Yeah. So that that that's indicative of the game seven world series pulling older males more but the lead for Awa in that eighteen to forty nine male demo. Oh two weeks ago before the world series was was almost three to one point six to two point two three so again. It's small sample size and I think there's a wider margin love variants week-to-week wide margin of error. So it's it's definitely stat to wash across the board. They were in the adult male demos essentially tied this week. I think. Aws so you went. Eighteen to forty nine adults head up point zero five advantage point three zero two point three five so yeah I mean again it depends on what the the the networks Berkshire looking for relative to what they're What they're paying? I tend not to get too much caught up in the The Minutia of the Of the weak ratings but I'm I'm really I'm not sure how they're how they're how the networks would be reading out the last The last few weeks given you know the the numbers Overall vis-a-vis the the demos yeah a final stat that I've been tracking. Just the percentage difference in viewership not the total number of difference in viewers because as the viewership goes down that can be deceptive but the difference between the two shows from thirty six percent advantage on October second to thirty one percent to thirty percent twenty percent to twenty four percent and then this one percent so it seems like an outlier And we'll see next week and obviously the spy series angle and the arrival. And he'll turn in Ballard being advertised pretty heavily on smackdown and raw plays into it and wants November over. Things could could return but it's important time for Awa to put put on Josan and important to try to keep people who if people did move over a w to earn their business beyond November beyond this week. Yes I think particularly in in regards to aws because my my sense uh x t is and again a lot of it depends upon what percentage just people being drawn from aws versus people from Awa just dropping out and people then being different different people being brought in from Ron Smack. But my my sense. Is that with Debbie. There's always going to be a you know the A certain base of people that are watching the other television shows shows. You can pull from if you've if you've got an a good enough programming and there isn't enough Programming already out there. The people say I don't want to bother with aws. They're trying to cultivate a group of people that are willing to potentially try it out on a potentially went to watch a week to week basis and those sorts of the people aren't necessarily they're going to be there at six months in a way that the audience will be there in six months on Ron smackdown if you really want to hammer hard the next two years priority trump groped program relative to Tron smackdown are. Let's set the table. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. The Thursday flagship edition for November the vendor seventh two thousand nineteen and every three weeks the voice. You hear the other voice you hear. Is Todd Martin who was a POW torch VIP analyst these star Star of the weekly VIP podcast. The fix with Todd Martin. 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That's Harrys Dot com code five thousand enjoy. So let's get back to the show. We've got to talk about with Todd. We're going to run down Ron on a bit. We'll talk about the latest new Japan power struggle and and so much more so we'll start doing that right after this are well. Let's let's talk about both shows. We'll start with AWA dynamite. My they go they introduce the show and set the stage for though show by announcing the matches ahead of time and then they opened with pack and Trent Baretta this just one went fourteen minutes pot coming out on top. I thought that this show was the template for the show for what. Aws should be I mean I thought that they they really because there's a go home show they added more build And because of that I thought that it it made made you not only interested in this specific show but it also I thought it made you more invest in. What's going on moving forward which I thought was in the sort of approach that they should have have most weeks Even if it's not going to be obviously go home show every week. The the the the the pocket Brenda match thought was a good batch It was obviously undermined by the other screwing up the finish. But you know that is what it is I I'll I'll offer up a defensive. The the the fact that they had Bradtha goes along as they They did because you know. You're you're critical of that and certainly we agree on the larger point. which is that uh-huh when it comes to these you know these matches with one person just established a higher level and one person that's established your lower level. They should probably defer more to do putting over the person higher level stronger to try to flag for people. These are the most important people as opposed to everyone. Sort of seeing seeing the same level. Would that said bread edit to me is someone that you're going to want to break off with a push at some point and that's what ghettos planning before they jumped a w I think he's the guy that's got a pretty good upside potential and so he somebody that I would be looking out to protect More than some of these other people even if all right now he's in a tag team. I. I wouldn't want people to sort of think of him as oh he's attacked him. Sort sort of lower level Even if that's what he is right now that that wouldn't be the longer term idea for where he would end up. You know. I like that defense of what happened. And if in two three months ons to Bradtha breaks off or they start telling the story. Hey He's been hanging with these guys who are established top singles guys. This is a good kind of look. Look back at the launching point or the the moment that went by that. Maybe the announcers didn't even draw attention to which is meant he's hanging out with WHO's has this level of credibility ability higher than him and I would love for those two stories that we could have faith that we're being told when we see a magical fourteen minutes with semi comedy Take Team Wrestler Against Establishment of guy in this company. So I I very sincerely hope that's the case. I also look at the pattern of Awa just doing fourteen minute matches a sort of rule and I offset a little bit that with the idea that we might wrestlers to be the artisan. Have the canvas tell their story. And we don't want to do it though to beat us and have a bunch of four to six minute matches and this is sort of their counterpoint to just by default go to fourteen so I want to see a larger sample size. But it's good to identify bread as somebody who has who has that potential to be a breakout star and even if by accident this helps. That would be good and you don't have to have an imminent plan for for you know some sort of change to be flagging certain people for protection. I mean I think that's I don't think you you need to have a three month plan necessarily for somebody to sort of have them checked on on the boxes like this is somebody that's particularly worth Worth looking out for our children we had cody makes his ring entrance and does the middle during interview. Tony Shivani that has generated quite a bit the bus. I thought this was a fantastic. Promo again I mean. I like this stoorikhel references. I like the you know the line about it. Being Ellis Thailand was a great line. I like the way that he went after Jericho in a way that felt personal without demeaning or lessening Jericho. Erica because so often when wrestlers WANNA make an issue more personal they end up saying things seem very you know seemed like a sort of a strong enough thing. That's like like Oh you know like you know. These people are really coming out each other hard like it created make Caesar's suspend disbelief but in doing so they'll say things that and diminishing finishing the other restaurant in the process and here cody was going at them in a way that that make you feel like. Oh he really doesn't like this guy in the way says it while still leaving Jericho just as big of a star. I mean like you know saying like your first book is available for cheap one. You know it's been out for however. That book was a big success. I don't think people were thinking like. Oh you know Ricky Keating Jericho Cody's code is really getting sort of the heart of this guy and then the you know stuff about him being You know his dad being hockey players having money that that call that comes across like a personal thing but again it's not something that diminishes the star power calling him a Dick. That's something you don't Expect to hear on on on wrestling. You know modern wrestling television so it comes across stronger it made it personal without food without having any downside to it And you know thought that with you know with a passion and composure. And the are the cody's Developing we've talked about how you're going to you know what they're going to go forward What what who? They're going to build around moving forward and increasing. I'm really coming to think that that that Omega is not the Guy Cody's the guy And I think with most with most wrestling companies. You're better off when you have that idea like this is where we're going this person's going to be the guy and I look at this. This show the shows have been doing the major the major ones in terms of the bill and consistency. Cody is the one. That's drumming up. The most interest is getting you invested invested in the stories. He's the he's the I mean far and away in my view the MVP of this promotion to this point. And I don't see any signals. That's something that they should let up on anytime soon. I think that if I'm looking at this thing even if going in I'm thinking ultimately we're going to make that's that's not what I'm thinking now now I'm thinking build this thing to to To Code as far as the the most newsworthy part of it which was the You know cody sang that. He won't challenge for the title again if he loses. I think he's losing Some some are speculating. Maybe W wouldn't want their champ to lose to Tallahassee on hush in the Tokyo Dome In in a couple of months. But I think it's just a story here that they wanted to tell I mean there's no there's no real pointed adding the extrapolation at the last minute. If he's just going to win anyway I mean I don't think the match needs I think the reason you put that in there as is you want to tell the story okay. That he's you know he's he said that he's going to give up a title shot in the future and on many title shot in the future and that's something that his dad did plenty of times. That was sort of a you you know a recurring a recurring theme with the midnight rider. And you know well before that in terms of some sort of skirting authority and and And and having obstacle setup in his path even in terms of stipulations that he that he was supposed to supposed to abide led by. And you know part of it is all the fun the I'm doing that because if if that is the idea. And he's going to lose this match. I think you you know. Clearly he's going to be coming for the title again and you know part of it is. I do give credit the benefit of the doubt that they have strong story plan And in general I I I believe in biting stipulations. I do think that's important but number one. This wasn't some big stipulation match that had been agreed to long. I'm going to advance. This was just a last minute unilateral declaration by cody. So I think that feels different to fans than you know. Take for example with you. You know when Rick Flair lost a retirement match with Hulk Hogan they build it up as you know for you know a longtime on television Hulk Hogan Ric flair had been a long feud a cage matches ric flair. Those he's going to have to retire. That you felt like you know like a big buildup and ric flair comes out of retirement. You know four months later later it comes across as an insult to the people watching here this on something people in thinking out for a long period of time and was sort of the focus of the promotion. This is something that that cody cody. Set himself in the last week and I think there won't be the same feeling of fans like oh they don't live by their stipulations. If long in the future that comes out back for the title and you know you can spend a year and I you know sometimes when we throw these timelines the timelines I think will not be realistic Tom. uh-huh roxy talking about but like here. I think a year is is highly likely that they'll that they'll Having other people challenge the title and people point out cody. You're screwed for the title. You should challenge for the title and cody can say over and over again. No I you know I you know I said I said I'm not GonNa Challenge title again. I'm not challenge for the title again. And you know you know hammer that over and over and over again and after a long extended bill where you know cody was screwed out of the title shot. And he's GonNa take he's gone he's taken care of other business he's done all this other thing and then you can make people wanna see and more and more it's forbidden fruit You know because if so you're not going to get. And then they do the big angle that for whatever reason leads coded being to be convinced to go for the title of Cat. And whether that's you know the champion being taken out one of his family members or whether that's you know he's accomplished some sort of big obstacle or whatever it is View you you then pull the trigger at that point and I think I think destroy work and I don't think it'll have the The downside when you've got to that that sometimes is the case in wrestling when you when you create stipulation than you don't abide by it if you're a wrestling fan you're a fan of a good story and if you're looking for a good story look no further than stories of your and yours I'm Sean. Ns and on every the episode of stories of your and yours. I narrate a classic or listener submitted. Short story adding music and sound effects. Bring the story new flavor I featured authors such says et growling Pope. Kurt vonnegut Ray Bradbury Mark Twain and many more. 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GRANDPA told you about when he fell asleep leap in his chair frame easing or five percent back on the laptop. Your sister had carolers sing. The capital one walnut rewards awards card earn unlimited rewards including five percent back at Walmart online. What's in your wallet? Terms and exclusions apply capital. One gay jerk retains a title. Cody doesn't get a rematch. Do you see them laying the groundwork for what is the next. I challenge for both cody and Jericho. cody yes. I mean clearly. They you know they're sending up at some point with Jeff. I think I don't think that's going to happen this week. I I think that's GonNa come a little bit later. But there could be moving towards that and there are other AP- you know there are other enemies of cody that are lingering like Like Shawn Spears ears in Jericho is set up this group of Of People to protect him like hager and and Ortiz and Santana A and Guevarra that you know if you're in particular is the one that You know that that plays the biggest role and cody not winning the title. There's there's a natural thing for For Collier's chase after chase after him so there's an end he you know he obviously planted the seeds for a or four games down the line with you know match beyond and you know the most obvious I mean you can do it different ways you could do sort of a group with with Jeff and and an and spears but you could also do it with you know with Jericho's group and MJ still being on cody side with obviously the title. Not Being on the line. So you can. Do you think they're setting up a number without as far as the Jericho side who he'd be defending the title against That one I don't think they've been sending up as much I mean obviously they've You know they've been building up the building up park with a lot of wins. But I'm not sure that he beats page on On Saturday and if they do have park went again. Their pocket versus Jericho is a heel versus heel matchups. Oh I mean which doesn't mean they can't do it but it would be a little bit weird. The winner of of Moxley and Omega would would also potentially make sense because there are the other two big stars and they haven't been building that up but somebody nobody I think us in the mail bag about where they're going next with us and as I was sort of looking through their Austrian thinking about it what ultimately settled on as the most likely next core. You are so it'd be Would Be Moxley Moxley. Beating Omega Omega is is down for a little bit longer because they only really just started already telling that story of Omega sort of being at a lower place And if you do that you have Moxie the next the next challenger you build up moxie versus Jericho feud when you complete that feud you could then Omega down the line. After he's been involved with other stuff have Omega Redo Not Redo you do but go back to a match with with Moxley and beating Moxley down the line you know with the the springboard for him to go after the title down on the line. So that's sort of what I'm thinking is Jericho retains here. Jericho feuds with Moxley Jerko feuds with Omega and then they go back to Jericho on Kodiak area when you initially said that cody would be is is seeming to be take on the role of being the top guy now more than Omega. Are you surprised. SURPRI hold surprised. Are you that you're saying that not very much or quite a bit six weeks. Quite a bit I I've thought highly of cody since he funny a potential but after he broke out in watch independence there are people that were and we talked a fair amount if there are people that are more down cody because he wasn't having having The the the best matches relative to you know some of the people that he was on the cards with but he was really getting himself over as a personality this analogy and connecting with fans and doing a lot of the things that have have have gotten him over more recently so you could see the sparks there but you know Megan Ega much more to me. Some sort of struck me as the you know the person that if you're going to try to create a Russ company with a fresh new star you know Megan the one that he'd proven he could handle the top You know the top position from what he was doing an in new Japan. He was the guy that had the best matches is he has great Christmas well and Moxley. There's another guy that was sort of in opposition for while while cody you know still had you know for a while. L. Something of the stigma of being somebody that was At a lower level in In so there were things working and other people's favors and there are things working cody and you know who knows. I mean the mentality. Maybe the mentality still is that That don't make us is so you really want. Or you know you can also have the thing where you just sort of rotate. Because that's you know some promotions have had that mentality to where you you know somebody is is. Is You know on top for nine months a year and then they lose somebody else on nine point nine months to a year and they're sort of you know at a at a comparable level and if you know if you want people sort of a comparable level you can do that too but if if your idea. Is We really WANNA highlight. Somebody eventually with this thing. Honestly as I as I'm speaking with that like aws does seem like a promotion. That's less likely to have mentality and other promotions. Just you know going back to. We're talking about earlier. It was like the fourteen matches for everybody. You know trying to get over everybody the idea that you would like pick one person and like you know highlight them over other seems less than sort of the DNA. They have what we've seen it this promotion. Dan Other approaches. That may just be where you you know where you have the Jericho do a big Ron. And later you'll cody do a big Ron and he loses is in. You Have Omega do a big Ron. They can do that too but If you really want sort of like one person to sort of highlight as as the The person that's that's that's carrying during the banner as I look at that thing you know like I said I think I think code is the guy humans have been shaving for thousands of years and and the secret to a great shave. Well it hasn't changed much the ancient Greeks didn't need flex balls or heated handles. And neither do. 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It stabbing dabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life you want to live CD medic target. Your pain added source. It's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with CBD medic available online in and that CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease if if they had put Kenny. And let's say the Moxley interview interview injure not injury hospitalizations in the recurrence of infection. Didn't come back and they were in a different place. Rewriting history and Kenny was challenging Jericho. I and cody cody was doing something else. Do you think Kenny could have been built in. It would have been really strong in this position. Rewriting history were. You would be like yeah. You know not not right all along but like Kenny affirmed because he had more of an opportunity because what I watch these six weeks cody's real. He's really shined. He's getting ingrate crowd reactions and he deserves spot. People not paying attention here from some wrestlers. Going what cody come on. But if you're not paying attention it might seem really out of line or just an ego trip and I still get emails about that. But he's earned it. I mean the crowd reaction is there but it wasn't necessarily destiny. I guess if Kenny got the type of video production and push out of the gate and world title shot and and he was promoted better frankly with a different story line or maybe better software but more prominently would do you think it could have worked as well as cody. I mean that's sort of philosophical question and having I mean my my my plaster and those sorts of things is is things can go very differently depending upon on Upon little breaks so yeah I I don't I don't think it's any sort of you know any sort of given that you know if things that things were going to break in a in a certain way putting putting aside our discussion which is sort of like I mean like if if theoretically something if if it were possible for something to have gone differently slightly In in in different ways and yeah of course I mean I I think there are tons of wrestlers. Look you see all of these great wrestlers that I think if you had you know brought them up and and push them to their you. I'm not in a strong way. And given their best opportunity to strive I'm not sure which ones would click the best but I'm sure that a ton ton of them would be. You would be big big stars right now as opposed to sort of people floating around in the mid card so yeah I mean if if things broke the right way and you Fisher make the right way I mean you might be You might be talking more now and look. I mean it wasn't like with some people. It's more when you talk. Because it is more speculative you know like Adam Cole for example like he was he was a main event at the H. Level and he's been a main of editor at the next level and she can look and you can sort of extrapolate that he could make it on a big level And I think that's right but it's not like he's proven that in in the biggest regard but I mean Kenny Omega became a they're a top main event level star for the number two promotion the world and was headlining. You know headlining finding the Tokyo Dome and doing strong business. They're headlining big shows All over the place in Japan and had proved that he can be at the top of if he can do than in Japan. I mean even if the you know the culture is is different in terms of what. They're what they're looking for from a wrestling company. I mean I think certainly the potential is there for him due to do that in the states rates would that said You know like Omega throughout the throughout the run had some in. Aws had some very good matches consistently but if you look at the totality of what he is doing in terms of how to connect with the crowd in terms of how it's emotionally invested people in in in in what he's doing. Compared to cody cody. Time in and time out every step of the way on this thing has involved himself in the stuff that's connected most of the people let Nwea title program back at back at all in the stuff with Shawn Spears and Tully Blanchard Leading into all out the stuff with his brother brother and you know the emotional fallout from from that at a double or nothing and other stuff that he's doing right now a jerk I mean the the highlights of this promote. I mean if if I take a step back and and people have different ways of looking at wrestling so I mean some people are like you know what matches stand out the most. I'm while I I appreciate Very good matches. I I've always been more story oriented if I step back and I look like what are the most powerful moments in aws history. What are the the things that that resonated the most where the most memorable and you try to create a top ten? I don't think there's any way. Cody Super Kicks Cody. Ah I don't know that there's any way that cody isn't five out of the top ten and I don't know if he isn't five out of the top five but super cakes or at least five out of the top ten. Wait I like the Super Little Your little your little subtle shots at the super cats. I'm not I'm not going along with that. Even if you do it three times. Just try to get me to go along up at two thirds. A third is never worked with. You know I agree with what you say about. Cody cody and weather match. Quality in any way concerns you just based around. What Awa the way W is presented themselves and the fact that pock and Moxley and Acting main page and other top guys are you can count on them for more for what is in modern for what. AWS target market is is and the disgruntled fans. And disengage fans are looking for. You could say cody's the least likely to deliver those kinds of main events. I'm I'm with you and I think sometimes fans don't even know what they want because in the end there'll be more emotionally invested into cody match. That isn't as athletic. Some of the other guys and what they can do. So I'm on the side Dove. Don't worry about that but are you worried at all about that. I mean cody is not GonNa go out there and have the types of matches that most of the other guys right now in. Aws established tablets top tier can have just as a general. I try not to worry too much so You Know I. I don't know if worried would be the right word but I is the people that you mentioned. I think they're all better than cody. in the ring I think there are a lot of people that are I mean page is comparable but I think you know a lot of our our our higher in terms of like the in ring the ring quality but I don't think that ultimately matters although you you mentioned what I think is the the strongest argument against that position. which is the nature of the fans at attracting and it is true? Is that the The AWA fans they're drawing are more focused on the in ring that I think you know if you had a bigger and bigger group of Offense if you if you went back to sort of the attitude era base. I think you know with with an. I've talked about this before my broad theory. The of the case so to speak with what's happened with pro wrestling is w is telling really good story. Tau Really good stories in for a long period of time. They've been telling stories that just weren't satisfying people title. And because the fans that wanted the stories to be the front and center of the Of the of progressing those people dropped dropped out because of all the stories that didn't make sense the pushing the people they didn't like the you know going back and forth on things fifty fifty booking at least people. We'll just sort of feeling that they're going on circles. The people are story sort of drifted on drifted on drifted out and were weeded out to this group of people that were much more predisposed used to like Like entering action because now is the thing that they had the most was they can overlook the storytelling and just focus on the reaction. Just like this is in an example of a funny example. I don't know I'm not. There's no cometary here but like you know like when you have a when you're trying to kill off germs and you you you know they have like these. You know the the What do you call it? The the hand sanitizers that go in there you know essentially carpet bomb the germs on your hands and get rid of all the bacteria the stuff that's left there is like the hyper resistant bacteria. That's really able to to deal with those sorts of things and I think you know the fan. The Fan base has been you know has whittled down to a much more wrestling oriented group and those people are the people that I think are more inclined to say. Yeah cody is good in the ring. But he's not as the ring as these other guys so get him out of the way here. We need to really the best of the best in ring the smaller the group of people. You have the more that's going to matter the other like I said I think code is good enough to overcome that but the other part of that is that if you expand your base in you you don't even need. You don't need to worry about that even more because the people that you bring in I mean I think they're going to be much more inclined to be people that are drawn in by the Uh by the stories and from that standpoint obviously. That's that's extract here just talking. I was gone for about the last minute because I just Eddie throw it on my hand sanitizer but I'm back and ready to move on. I stopped I stopped. I stopped using cans sanitizer a couple of years ago. It's a lot of ways probably probably bad for or for for human beings but it ultimately doesn't really matter that much it's more just sort of You know sort of principle thing because like as long as other people are doing cacique socks him effect. Feel about antibacterial. So I'm glad that's star new. That's talking about. Oh I thought you meant that. The alcohol alcohol. Not The antibacterial list. Things are like a whole bunch of different like little chemicals in there. I mean they're the ones consider just sort of pure alcohol but I think I think most of those things are are are based on On the antibacterial staff. Yeah searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell hosting three weekly pro whistling boom podcast each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribe an IT Stitcher stitcher downcast. And all your favorite secondary APPS or visit us directly at POW BOOM DOT com once again that's pw dot com introducing the capital one walmart rewards card earn unlimited five percent back on everything you buy at Walmart Online. It's the perfect card for all. Your family is hints this holiday season. Like five I percents back on the air fire. GRANDPA told you about when he fell asleep in his chair frying or five percent back on the laptop your sister had carolers sing. turtledove ascended up the capital one walmart rewards card earn unlimited rewards including five percent back at Walmart online. What's in your wallet? Terms and exclusions apply capital one. Hey It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between the life you want to live CD medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with CD medic available online and at CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease z's art. So let's see I think that is the end of my afl questions on the cody stuff. But that's it's really interesting. I'm glad we're this deepened. Awa we can kinda talk now for months and months waiting for TNT for dynamite on TNT. It was like I can't wait to just analyze to booking and now we've got like the six-week body work we gotta pay per view to talk about. which will preview match for match in a moment or coming up in a few moments and and so it's fun? It's fun to have a different set of booking minds and a whole different group of wrestlers to to analyze in the way that we are talking about the different paths that that might be taken particularly when they're putting on a better although I'd be fine if toby suddenly got better than aws aws still this good but exactly your point. I mean we're not complaining about a bunch of bad decisions. We're speculating about some cool directions. That things can go based on a stretch of good shows. Okay so then we have private party dark order. You won't believe it but they weren't fourteen minutes in this one Private Party winning Yeah I mean it was you know yes Just a match. I mean it was it was it was fine. I like the fact that the dark order got new outfits so think Awa listen on that It looked it looked more major league than than the previous outfits not only for for For but also for the you know the whatever the Artha the the the perverts that sit comfortably so then Jim Ross through video that he had not seen yet but Jericho submitted so in In Jericho they trusted as they push play and we got the bubbly promotional video but of a spoof. Akali your thoughts on this so mixed feelings. I mean on the one hand it was so comedic for your go home show title match and Jerko Screw. I thought came across. Cross very endearing and the comedy which is not necessarily what you want to be doing with top group this early in but on the other hand you see so much bad dot com and wrestling and this was really funny? I mean I've really from entertainment standpoint. I thought this was really good. So if hager saying nothing to Jericho Caracul being proclaimed the youngest Awa champion ever the you know the cameos. Yeah I was doing. The math on that one is You know some strange equations but it turns out to be true You know the Jericho's aunt's friend. I mean I thought this stuff pretty much all landed very well so it was a very good segment. I might save that for another time or or thought that it might be better served for somebody. You know different people on the card. But it's hard hard quibble or something though senator entertaining all right then the women's tag match This one went fourteen minutes soccer and heater winning this one. Yeah I mean this was. This was a good match. I do wish they planned it out. Better because announcing the match with Rio and and soccer for the title when you had really early both up soccer and then saw pins real after that That deadbeat feel where you know you come up with a match and find ways to try to build it rather than presenting TV in a way. Okay where the big matches seemed to flow naturally from From what comes on the television so I think that was a bit of an unforced air but Other than it was good then Brady Roads Vignette for her introducing her or furthering her alliance with Congress on that I. I like the segment I I. I don't want Brandy as an authority figure or as a wrestler. But she's a good promo she's a good personality and I think she can be effective as a manager editor. I thought she was good here. Shoes believably bringing up Wi- she'd be resentful of the people who doubt her and her question her and she's going to. I used that basically as revenge on on them with calm and I mean that's an ex- you know so many strong Keel characters. Is You understand. Exactly why they're you know they're upset and executive accuweather motivated to To to do bad things I thought that was a good way of of taking advantage of You know the narratives heard of sits around brandy. Yeah I agree. I honestly chose the self awareness of where her strengths are using them as an asset for the for the company for the TV show. Oh okay then the Chairman Shawn Spears Tully Blanchard Beats Brandon Cutler in about four minutes and it was just sort of a straightforward Giving spears a win presumably Hogan another one over Gene Allah and you're setting them up for when he's going to be reintroduced later To do something Bigger and that to me is I think that's the way the wrestling should be has this attitude that they only want the people on television if they're going to actively actively be involved in some feud and so sometimes so they won't have something for someone and they'll just be taken off television altogether and I think it's better to do what you're doing here where you have some the people that are basically in holding patterns on television you know while you get them ready for something bigger you know the you go. They go out there. They win a match their presented as somebody important porn. Somebody that's a star and they're not really doing anything right now but they're they're still being framed as part of the conversation and it feels it feels. There's there's a it feels more natural than they sort of pop up and they're back into a into another sort of feud and so I think it's I I think that's it's good to have people in that position then the height for Kenya. Kenya Magi Mega Jon. Moxley took place within a video package packaged other than the brawl. At the end your thoughts on on the presentation of of the The video passenger. It wasn't it wasn't particularly notable I didn't think they mixed in some Some new comments but there's also a fair amount of sort of re rehashing. What's what's already happen? Yeah Yup just Kenny saying. I'm glad we're going to a dark place. A can't wait to see it. I thought it did. They've been sold little to establish Kenny beyond. Just just you know look at him. Do cool athletic moves with crowds cheering him. And so to kind of get to hear from a more to me that that felt a little more that felt noteworthy just relative relative to what we've seen so far and I thought it was a good start in terms of whether they don't whether they don't know who is going to be or they do when they just want to unveil it slowly holy and they kind of want to get through this Moxie feud first before they really go with it. I thought it was. It was good to hear from him. If he's going to be a major player and I wish we had heard more from them between now since week one but I thought just saying I want to meet. You ended our place in the Algiers. Kinda underlining by saying you know Maga's versatile enough to do a lot of different styles dials. I thought what was good but it's too bad. The MOXIE Promo last week. Was that week up against game seven. You know that kind of a bummer. Just in terms of The number of people who didn't see that and only a little glimpse of it in the video. Yeah although as I tell you I was. I wasn't as high on that. Promise your So I ah didn't jump out to me as as much as the The the the Jericho Promo in the Codey. promos for some of these These early week from now I think Omega thus still has that big big promos in him but I I didn't think I didn't think Last week was on the high end of what we're likely to got from From Oxygen W. AH talking wise like I said it's a good thing that not many people saw last week it was really good timing for the world series game seven it was a mediocre Vermont. Good it was good. It was still good froma. I never saying it didn't jump out as much as I think you know. I think when we look back and six months it's sort of the If it were talking about like memory that's still probably would might stand up to some degree just in the there was the first but I think he's going to do a lot better in terms of investing you and in matches and stories then then my. I'm angry that my match isn't GonNa Count. Yeah no no I get that. I think he was pretty tight for that Promo to like. I think you put a lot of pressure on himself going out there. I thought it came through both good and bad ways. In terms of just how how wound up. He was delivering it. And I I agree some of the content two and Relying on it not counting being hook is is something. I don't think a lot of people were thinking about two days later. As a reason they care about the match. So Oh would you just describe I too. I think there's another issue with with the promise in that. I think when you're sort of just doing your own promos each week. I think it's GonNa even putting aside just the fact that you have more of a title what you come up with yourself and what somebody writes for you. I think there's there's a strength to Not Too too. It's easier when you're just delivering on stuff though when somebody had script on the page and you memorize a staff and you know you're just going to deliver this stuff later in the show and you gotta try to deliver the stuff as best you possibly can. I think that creates a you know a pressure to sort of think about like how am I going to you know. Accentuate this word. How am I going to say this word that makes it harder than for particularly for people that aren't trained actors No you can go out there. And you've got some bullet points in your head and you just let it flow. I think I think that's that's another challenge. I think it speaks to what you were mentioning in terms of the interest of the pressure that that comes from from having this one promo coming up and you sort of know that that's what it's going to be and and more pressure that comes from that I'm rich band hosted the deep dive with Richmond. A weekly part of the torch daily cast lineup of shirts search. Pov Torch an apple podcast or your podcast axis inscribed every Saturday at six PM Eastern. I dive in with guests for an hour. Anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related. Want to hear about the influence of historical figures. Big Kettering that we got. You WanNa hear about how crazy reasoned marine movies. Got We are on. No topic is too big or too small so if you WanNa die then with this call in live or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch daily daily cast schedule at POW TOWARDS DAILY CAST DOT COM. It's cutting into your are exercised time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life you want to live CBD Medic targets your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with CBD medic available online and CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time. It stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life if you want to live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CVS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease and then Made it fourteen minutes Kenya. Meghan hang my patriots Jericho Geico and Sammy Guevara Jerry Guevarra winning the leading to with interference and then up just a wild brawl for. I don't know how long that went. I four minutes maybe To end the show ending on a real high note with a Lotta. I'll take the over on that for sure. Yeah Yeah I might. I could be completely wrong. And and the number of matches on the pay per view so Your thoughts on the main event and the and the opera at the end. I also taking the the push on the keys. So who knows what I I really liked it The ball but as the match itself was pretty good not I didn't think it was extraordinary by any means with the BRO. It's not like you know. They're not reinventing the wheel with that sort of thing but I thought the chaos with the teasing all the different matches was was was the fact of in particular part I really liked was that I like the most was when Moxie laid out Santana and then just goes right back to fighting Omega. I thought that was a cool dynamic and a What cold it? which will get to Gear but I didn't think it connected nearly as well because because the the democracy thing was part of a story which is you've got like these two I mean I guess it's sort of a similar story but I think the key difference is is that what was What was underlying Kohl's approach was like you know like I? I dislike you for from my My current feud but you have got to defend my brand. for which is you know the the goes back to the annoying branched off whereas with the Moxley thing it was like like this is his constitution is he is sort of a wild man. And you know these these These other people have gotten in his way and here he was able to clear clear the people out of his way so he could go back after Go back after his guy that he really wants to get out and make that that to me is sort of like a you know a a story in a in a per trail that I thought was more interesting. Yeah Yup So yeah anything else on what they did in this match the match itself the tag match and the girl afterwards no okay so yeah as a template for for the show going forward other than the not necessarily seeming to sort of fourteen minutes on some matches it might benefit from either being longer or shorter. This was this was again. I get get a proven over the first few weeks where there wasn't as much of a balance of some of that stuff. And just yeah in the ad it's GonNa remembered for the Cody Cody Promo in the big brawl at the end. And I think it's a type of show that the buzzers positive enough for people if they chose to watch annex t will feel like I missed something and I think that helps inasmuch as there are fans a lot of choosing between the two and in in not wanting the full Mo- affect to be too high all right so let's flip over to annex t and talk about that the it was after NFC showing up on smackdown and RAW. They're going to probably show up here. Dollar even opened with a declared a statement about about that Just kind of macro thoughts on the blending of that. got a little hint of it when you were talking about Yeah I mean. It's not not not my cup of tea. I mean Frank I thought it was sort of demoralizing. Because I've been enjoying these annex t shows in the next direction and then it's like Oh God more brand versus versus brand stuff And I mean to to their defense they definitely could have done a lot. More of it. So you know it. Also it was only the Jay Styles thing but they opened the show with an enclosed show with it. And I'm I'm just much more invested in in pretty much everything else that's going on then. The annex t superstars in the raw superstars proving which brand is Is Supreme for the next three weeks until I forgot about it. Yeah Yup aren't so Styles Anderson and gallows walkout. And by the way I just. I want to emphasize that if I use the term superstars I'm saying with contempt. I don't know if I used it a the a strong enough negative tone to make that clear so I'm going to say it as well afterwards. I'm so happy you clarified that because now that I had any doubt but I'm glad that I don't want anyone else to have any doubt that it is just when people say superstar and they don't say it contempt. I feel contemptuous even when you work for the company. I feel contemptuous but I have a little little more leeway there but people don't refer go to superstars you. Don't you're not on payroll okay so university even more. It's even more of the fingers fingers on the chalkboard from me. Yes yes okay. So styles interest gallons. Walkout cut a promo amid ring. And then Champa comes out and not somebody other an xt wrestlers specifics about this any Any thoughts on what worked and didn't work here. You know like I mentioned not a big Fan of these these these these segments with With the brand stuff I will add in addition to sort of what I I noted already I I I think that with Champa. I like him much better with the idea. That trump is like this loner whose reluctant to trust anybody and him. So freely accepting the help of riddle and Lee Riddle yeah LE- For some reason I said Leo's I was thinking thinking of Kevin Lion and the the fighter second of my talking about who am I talking about here Thought that before but this time I was just imagining you you know having the NFC setting if something wrong but keithly That's that's too is in the NFC setting him accepting their help. So freely I think sort of undermines character somewhat and I think it will. Also it undermines what I think is a potentially stronger Moma Madama line when chump fully reimburses Gorgon which is something. They're sort of teasing a little bit now but like they haven't like gone all the way there where like they're still they're still a little bit of apprehension there and the I think I think emphasizing CIAMPA as somebody that's Not Eager to join up with anybody would make that moment later. Bigger I if they made more of a point to town besides that what about Branson premacy time Yeah that would somewhat undermined your ability to To tell the brand supremacy storyline. Yeah all right Ben. Piton Damian Priest Sixteen minutes here. going over. I'm glad that DON got back. I was thinking you just lose again and I think you should right at priests level if not higher so I'm glad that what that says about Their perception of Don then killing date running running out afterwards he and just felt like they're setting up a three way which is weird three hundred but yeah So throughout throughout the show they were promoting. The idea of. We're going to fill out the women's wargames matches Kinda hitting that all in one fell swoop. Well what did you think about. That story weaved into the show. So I missed the beginning. Wargame and the mystery Gotcha very well done. I mean I thought that that that felt like the key thing on the On the show and I like the story. They're telling their where you know. Dakota is being doubted. She puts up a fight but she loses to Shane. A MEA makes save and she gets putting the match instead import a quota. You know you know walks off into the distance because nobody loves her You know I think. She has like a good understandable. Notable reason now to lash out which I think is how you want. He'll turns to start and then she does various stuff and you go. Oh I can't abide by that. Even if I do sort of understand why she was frustrated to begin with so it would seem that the code is going to cost me in the mash next week and then joins Shane team kind of like even better the idea for turning on her friends Helping out Me Helping out. A shrine beat me a medium next week and then she asked to China's teammate. Shane of turns her down to so that she has like a metro title breakdown in hates. Everybody like I like. I like that idea. It's like the you know the craziest. Nobody likes me and I feel like there's potential there. Do you speak from personal experience life. Wait no no just like anyone not some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are. VIP exclusive and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content including pro wrestling torch senior columnist. Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show I usually usually hosts that program although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis. The opinion on what today's news means. Also the fix with Todd Martin every mid week todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest. TV shows and major events from WWe W new Japan and many others plus. We'll keep you up to date on what just happened in the world of MMA USC Delatour and more four. And what's coming up the following weekend. Plus book reviews reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the worldwide pro wrestling scene and the unmatched imagine mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world. I know I sound like I'm exaggerating. But this is the fixed listeners. Provide fantastic questions and todd delivers. 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Let's see so TAINA Santana Garrett go four minutes any thoughts on this. It's ready to backtrack there so quickly. I mean I thought it was very very clearly like oh wait. What me who who who you're talking about with that reference? What is what was your over under on the key chain I didn't really have one. I mean I just said you're sounded good. which was what nine? What sex okay? Okay and then you're bragging about being wrong but no I'm not I'm not. So what is your over under. On how long the brawl lasted in the in the main event of. I'll just take the. I'll take the over of your four minutes. No well what is your over under I. I'll take the over on four minutes to what's your what's your over under. I don't know like thirty. Salt Lake the match. Unfair then the intros for the stuff so that took a little before before they started the match I just take the over much more. I Bet your minutes I just yeah I mean. I don't get any credit for that. That was a number. I was GONNA guess what I decided against. You definitely don't get credit now. All right I believe I believe you know credit and the fact that you threw it out there. Maybe think well it's gotta be something that's you know markedly different since we've established it's more than four but it doesn't feel like it was that much more than so it was like I gotta go higher but then I was like no. I'm like now I'm talking myself into something you got to believe so I'm just going to refuse to answer some that's that's my thought processes. I'm happy I'm in your head a little bit in that way. All right it a little bit of Angel Garza got a a briefing yet in the talked about Leo Rush and they did an angle later with them also with Gar refusing handshake and slapping Leo to set up a cruiserweight title match. Next week with Angel as a heel after last week's Vignette and in Leo rush cast is a baby. Face your thoughts on that story in the show and and going with that next week. It's fine I don't think it's going to be like a you know sort of thing that's GonNa the drive fan interest but It was perfect refined building. The match should be pretty good. I thought it was got see to go. Oh you know as long as they did with with Tony. Nissan hogarth since that doesn't exactly scream ratings but confidence in them and You know the overall rating strong John. Sella peed off guard. Yeah Yep then a before that. Actually I two Shayna Basil or any thoughts on on the imagine over anything else regarding that I know we touched on the storyline. But okay. So let's see anything between that notre scenery so uh-huh so is as we're Scott and Dominic di Jakovic the semi-final before the main event winning in about seven minutes. I thought that I think that they can do more with With with Scott. Maybe they're going to like it. Feels like he's getting over at. I'd see them do more with him. And like the nothing wrong with those into too much because I mean they clearly have Plans for him so it's not like he's losing to You know to somebody. Really unimpressive impressive. But I'd like to see Skopje a bit more of a future than than than than that level although it's tough because I mean they've they got a lot of talent on an xt roster so it's like it's it's easy to get lost in the shuffle their art and then it was the main event six man tag. They went but fourteen minutes to a no contest with the with the running and chaos and angels. After it's your thoughts yeah I mean that was just sort of you know it was similar to what we talked about already as a continuation of the The brand versus brand Iran battle without any real investment investment in advancement in In terms of what In terms of what happened in in the man found any anything terms of the content of the main that stand out fourteen minutes and featured. Did anyone about to you. In terms of you know getting over with with the different mix of people know there was it was largely what I would have expected from from this group. Yeah all right all right. So let's let's run out our Wednesday night brand talk with a rundown of full gear. Previous main event cody and Chris. Jericho talked a decent amount about various options that they could do any anything else in the category preview. No I think we've pretty well that one. Yeah then Jon Moxley Audio Mega non-sanctioned lights out match this will not count touch would be talk about it. Okay I I think we should was that. I think we should talk about it even though it doesn't count. Yeah I don't really like I don't like your rules way you. You've you've made this not count. I want her discussion Russian to to to count here You know when I when I got into this show like I was told that we were going to be able to avoid this sort of thing and now and now here I am just like. You're just like Vincent Man. I mean Tony Kahn. Tony Kahn's one who said the cody. Iv Susan Moxley Kenny match isn't GonNa Count. How can you blame me for that? Well he was saying that the Tony Kahn was like Vincent Man so so you know I see okay well fair enough. All right Yeah so the I think the match should be should be an exciting brawl. I think it'll be a lot. aww Fun really gets a little bit I. It isn't as hot as it was back when leading into into all out which is not a AH good sign but I think crowd will still be very much into it and as much performed predicting Moxley to to To win the match. I mean they've you know they've they've it's on the story you know they've been doing this story with Omega so you might as well go a little bit longer. Sure then young bucks against antenna and Ortiz to to stay straight uptake match. I could see them having Santana Ortiz. Wendo established them but the the bucks did just lose private parties. So I think the box should. I should probably win particularly if they're going to continue calling them the best tag team in the world champions and they didn't win in Saudi Arabia. They don't have that's true. Yeah the yeah the the. That's why they didn't get that one. Either I was like was it did get numb in the middle of that but I don't remember them coming out but yes if you if you don't come out at all then that also does not constitute Winning don't play that's true exactly So yeah I I mean I think should be a a a great match. So I mean that you know these guys have Have worked before in the past and they they work all the guy there and Aw and they're all very talented then Reijo verses soccer off for the Awa women's Championship. I mean really rios getting over so she should she should. She should keep winning In my book Baker. I mean they've built up. The you know the the the grudge match component with them. I mean they haven't hammered on television but they've come across in the shot a little bit more here. I certainly expect Brit to win given they seem to have more investment in her and then so cal uncensored answered Frankie Kazarian a Scorpio Sky against the brothers and private party triple threat or three ways. They call it a W. Four shuttles. I mean just one so I think they should retain another one. That looks like an excellent match. I was I guess I wasn't even thinking about it like until like looking over the lineup and I was like looking at these masters when the wow. There's a newsflash. There's a lot of talent here. This should be a very good show and finally George Shawn John Spirits with Helena's corner gas mentioned. I think I think a spiritual I will win this one and I think it'll be good but this This also it seems very likely to be on the low end of the Mash on this card. Put the weekend perspective and take your eyes off the screen with a paper copy subscription to the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter newsletter. That I launched over thirty years ago and it continues and you can be part of it with exclusive cover stories that I write on wrestling's top stories stories each week plus exclusive Collins from Bruce Mitchell. Greg Parks John Radical and Alan Kernaghan and more are post pay per view roundtables with the staff giving their analysis of the show and scores with different perspectives and different points of view after all. WWE and eight you w paper plus the torch newswire. We'll keep you up to date on pro wrestling's wrestling's top stories and exclusive insider tidbits torch talk interview transcripts and much more look forward to visiting the mailbox once again go to. Pw Torch Dot com slash paper copy for details. That's w torch dot com slash paper copy for details and sign up information. Let's let's jump back to Monday's raw and review the follow up to the beginning of survivor series season on on smackdown on Friday. And this one they had access to all of their talent all of the wrestlers they were not held hostage in Saudi Arabia's one newspaper headline touted out of England. I touted was the correct. Use this word there but as a characterize it writes the The Daily Telegraph Wrestling Stars held hostage in Saudi board and they not touting touting outing doing that words count words matter all right so but they opened up with Paul Heyman and brock lesser. Just as they did on smackdown your thoughts on the follow up there To this ongoing storyline. I like the intensity of Brock wanting to get his hands on like. That's what he's what wrestlers should be. You know about not like the brand stuff is like you now this guy. He does not like Ramos Stereo. He wants to kill ray mysterious. He's coming to find mysterious and kill him like that's you know I like that and You know him taking out the the NFL NFL guy. I thought you know it. Cooled an amicus wells. You didn't expect that and his His size I thought added to You know added do that. Whole setting where he stands up and you momentarily like Oh you know? This guy is You know this. I think probably the average viewer that is not paying that close attention. She doesn't always former. NFL player because they don't really Talk about that they probably all. Wow you know whatever. This guy's name is is Is Big and then brought brock. Just completely dismisses them and it's like you know with Indiana Jones in the That guy you know who's twirling the weapon and he just shoots him so I thought that was effective in getting brock over. Do you think that we're supposed to believe that. Brock was basically traded for Lexa Blissett. Nicky Cross was that what. Hey saying they were there for two future draft consideration. How do you feel about that? If that is the case I think I think the idea is that that may have been like the trade but they were sort of coerced into to. Because like Broncos like I'm going there and so Insist smackdown. It's like well. I guess we already got those guys. Those girls so That's okay it's sort of like you know when in in In one of these other sports leagues where you know player has all the leverage for whatever reason you know. They've got They've got a Minnesota sports scenario. You know this the they've got leverage where it plays out in different ways depending upon on the depending upon the The the the the rules and the collective bargaining of the individual sport but Some team will be you know window that it's it's not a fair trade but those sort of have to me. Here's an in class examples. Quite Leonard Bike. You know the the the clippers had no that the trade for Paul George was Was Not exactly a A great trait in and of itself. But they you know quite Leonard told them that they They needed to WHO They needed to bring in somebody like Paul George in order for them to To jump and so you know in the thunder knew that they needed to get this thing and so They were able to get you know ridiculous ridiculous horde of affects all right So they're not Kabuki warriors again. Shelly flare in Italia Charlotte in over in this one they played the video beforehand with inspirational music talking about the first ever women's match in Saudi Arabia. They convince you yet. Wage radio I I was in such a good mood when we started talking and bringing things like this. This up with me is making me an innovator mood now I mean I the worst. It's you know it's just awful and I didn't like the booking of the match. Either I mean to me like the Oscars is Is One of the you know one of the best opponents for for becky lunch. If not the best opponent they have love for her in the in the short medium term future. And here's Natty natty submit certain it's like Econo- he got to recognize where people are on the on the on the pecking order. I mean like the Italian. I mean she's talented. And I I like her but like people don't perceive as a top person at all. And her you know her submitting Oscar. Just you know hurts OSCO without really any a big you know any substantial upside From doing it so I thought that was so really stupid book when I was going to go back to the video. I don't WanNa get you in a bad mood. But the glorifying Talia Lacey Evans Bench. Do you think is way I just made it clear how you just returned to. You're you're trying to work me out. But that's that's okay but if I try to keep like go ahead I'm sorry. Go ahead try to keep your cool. Yes okay all right. I did preface by saying I. Don't WanNA get your smooth. So that's sort of like saying no offense but or dispels any any justification that might be is that what no offense but does exactly what Senator Kennedy Sake never mind so but the do you think it works at all like from if you pull yourself away from being just disgusted with the you know that aspects of it that did you aren't personal level. Do you think from it just pure shameless marketing standpoint. From your point of view. Do you think it's doing to try to blunt or soften some some of the harsh feelings that some swail fans might have had toward Saudi Arabia. When they go see progress this is a feel good story? It's not all bad you're asking me how stupid stupid I think their fan base says Who might say how stupid they are? Okay have you look. I mean if you're if you're if you're if you're one I don't want to you know a to to To to monster because I mean it did seem like for whatever reason that the Natalia that seemed to me in a lot to her but My my general view of people would buy into the narrative that Saudi Arabia allowing women to wrestle is a a landmark cultural that my view of people without opinion and is not the highest so to quote senator. John Kennedy I don't mean any disrespect but it must suck to be that dumb. I when you senior started that when you say that earlier I thought you were talking about About you're going to talk about About about John. F. Kennedy Robert Kennedy and I was like what quote is he gonNA part hero it. It doesn't seem I was struggling to think what you were going to come up with. But yeah that that That's that's a different Kennedy. He said that she slept for context. International people or people who aren't paying attention to politics to the Louisiana senator said at a trump rally yesterday about speaker Nancy Pelosi so anyway just to fill that in for people not not aware of that but if it was sort of fitting here because you know when I think of never mind we'll move on all right. Let's see Cedric Alexander. Buddy Murphy Murphy wins this one and six minutes any thoughts on on that so but in in this comparison than I would be drawn Kennedy and the Louisiana Senator and the the The people who like this would be would be Nancy Pelosi. Yeah I mean there might be a slight flaw in the parallel analogy but the quote work. So I'm still going with it. That's why I just gave up on it. I mean you know I was. I was satisfied where where I was. And some taking correction Taking a turn for the worse if extrapolated anymore on it the wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life. Well we're those kind of people to but we do so with mixed martial arts. I'm rob via hosts hosts of enemy talk for Pro Wrestler advanced every Monday on W. Torch his daily cast lineup. Not only only do we cover every you of see Bella tour event. We provide context that only a wrestling fan would really understand. I mean we're the type of people that if you you ask us about. How much of a mess? The middleweight title situation is were likely to reference. WCW In the early nineties. Think of us as a podcast for casual. MMA fence it done by hardcore wrestling nerves and you could find us by searching pw torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast APP and were always available on demand at p he w torch daily cast dot com where you could check out the entire lineup of the PD towards daily tests. Okay yeah so set. Everybody Murphy doesn't match okay. That's kind of what I thought that would fall into the the idea of just having a match. That isn't an an angle that just happens. You don't see that often so I was. I was actually kind of curious. If you're GONNA say I just imagine happened or if you'd be like yeah I kind of want to see more of this where we actually have that kind of control group or there can be a match that happened. Somebody wins and we move on and it's more along the lines. Maybe what they did with Shawn Spears in aws. We've talked to control group before and I think there's merit to that As a concept. But this when when you're doing that the idea to me should be you're trying to get over some talent right and this to me was not about getting over some talent this was. We've got two wrestlers. We gotta fill some time. So let's just go out there and give them a little bit of time and whoever wins this match will lose the next one next week. So it's hard for me to give a lot of credit for that and I say A big picture approach because it doesn't fit into the vote of what I think. Those sorts of matches should be which is about getting over a specific wrestler. Yeah all right if if you did it if you did a quiz Right before Ron on next week you know where you said where you pull people that were watching the show and you said last week. Cedric Alexander Buddy Murphy had a match Who won that match attached? I think of the people who watch the percentage that There would be able to get the answer to that. Question would be would be not that high now. I just think I mentioned that two minutes go. Do you know who won the match. I actually okay but you know like I I. I'm I'm I may be well. No I think the majority Jordy would know. But that's that's not oversight is your threshold is Buddy Murphy. Yes yeah absolutely art so why South Rollins came out actually speaking sorry speaking to that as long as a good point. That's okay. Well I watched I. I watched raw on Monday and I don't remember. I think I knew after at the end of I would've been able to answer the question what I did I did look at. I'll check your report before we do the show just like see some ways. You're thinking about the show so I can. Then you know comment upon them or offer some Agree with you or or counter you and in which case you'll then pretend you never said the thing that you said but with With with that one I double checked to make sure who won so I definitely was not certain Looking at the report when I looked at the bottom that that it was going to be buddy murphy that one it was more of a Double checking all right moving on to our number two Seth rollins talks middle of the ring and addresses his State of mind. Your your thoughts on on How this played out with what triple h I mean the storyline about whether he'll jump to To Annex T is is not to me a compelling storyline I I don't care about the brands and seven top guy already so it doesn't feel like he'd be in a different role. I mean it's a AH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT I. I in general like the idea of people PEOPLE GOING TO GOING TO ANNEX T. Because I think they'll be used better but lake with Seth rollins I mean he's he's already the top guy so it doesn't feel like it matters very much to me so I wasn't I wasn't wasn't really a fan of fantasy. Storyline Anything else on his performance or the state of Seth Rollins at this point and and where he might end up after after survivor series and the storyline place. Up The state of Seth. rollins is not strong. It's it's been a rough period for for for your Buddy Saf And we'll We'll we'll see what they do It's GonNa be it's GonNa be difficult to To dig out of this one. Yeah Okay Undrawn Angelina. Against in Card Catalina Dried Angelina. Go over three in a row for Andrade Eh. and seeing are not not making a not not having a good month or good stretch. Time here Hayes television. At least but Yeah Yeah I mean I blame Catalina. I mean like you know if he'd brought in somebody that was able to hold her better. Maybe maybe scene car would have been able to get some you know some Some revenge but essentially relied on incompetence and he relied on incompetents attendance and You know that's what happens when you surround yourself with them competent all right then. Let's see drew rousseff student the ring and Talked about Bob Lashley which is one of the highlights of the week for me. When he called Bob Lashley and addresses a lot of situations flashy can ever? He'll ah with someone else. So as Rousseau done that one before I would before. Who did he short the name of before I don't know specifically but it does seem like that? He's done that sort of thing of his here for whatever reason the Bob Lashley doesn't like tickle. My fancy the that's why I asked because I feel like I like this on another one like I find it very amusing when he did it with somebody else. But for whatever reason Bob maybe just because Bob doesn't sound that abnormal to be calling someone. But you might call Kevin's Kev once. But I doubt that would tickle your fancy either. You know that I'm trying to think of now now. It's GONNA a tweet US everybody if you can if you can come up with it and if we don't before the show is over who did he shorten the name for and or it might have been extended I just. I think he'd just call somebody something else. Yeah all right shin. Probably not art backed it. That's my call approach. Does it so yes so anyway. He says that he can find someone else to have sex. Make babies with Lana. Bob Can have a lot of and Then we had a Bob Bob actually talking about pulling his groin. Juliet Sex Act. That could only could only dream of and then. We had drew McIntyre fighting this this battle for some reason against himself. That's that's stuff that Stuff that happened this This Roussev if it's not the best free and if I were saying all right then the Sheena baseler segment with breath interrupting the Becky sit down interview thoughts on that so I like the staging off it. I like the intensity of it but I I can endorse a segment. The just felt so fake with the verbiage and it just it felt so scripted sounding. I just I watched this. I'm I'm it just feels like people delivering lines memorized. And like I think people sort of accept it. Just accept it because I mean if you feel like if you took that segment and you put in any other promotion. You'd go. Why do they sound so stilted fake? But it's just sort of become like the standard it'd be so you sort of implicitly accept that and Mike Mike observed the things that are good about the segment but like I. I just couldn't overlook the fact that it felt like they were delivering scripted lines. Yeah Yeah you just. It fits into the larger narrative of of November and survivor series hype and and being generally against it but In terms of what did you see it as as a good introduction for Shane Obeys Ler on net or a lost opportunity to do it under other circumstances. When you're going to go all in with it? Yeah Yeah. That's a good question. I I would say on balance. It's been good. I think it could have been a lot more but I think she's come across like a pretty big deal and a bad. Ask Me that. She's been presented so I think there's even more upside than what they've done but I think on balance they've done pretty solid by her thus far all right Then Ed Umberto win streak profits against speaking about scripting that was unbelievably lame scripting from the prophets on the stage. Like I mean they're they're trying so hard and they looked so bad when they're just dying in front of that live crowd. That's one thing like you know. Dopamine needs to learn is like we'll get rid of the stupid like comedy in the stupid scripting anyway but if you're going to do those stupid scripted comedy segments where they're being so cute. Don't do do that in front of the people because the people don't think it's funny and so they exposes how people feel about that inner just like era backstage and like it still socks sox but at least like it. Well I mean maybe it's good that it highlights it doesn't land but they don't seem to learn from it. I mean they keep doing but I mean I thought now that was just I mean. Just the lamest materials. Yeah then Viking raiders against the easthampton boys match. And and then Adam Cole Seth Rollins they go about twelve minutes. Seth winning by D. Q.. Triple H and Shawn michaels interested parties at Ringside with undisputed era. Swarming warming Seth afterwards and the getting involved which of course later what we talked about it in annex t I will say I will say in defense of this idiotic brand versus brand stuff. That sucks off. Aw that'd be the quote of the week on twitter it's it's better to It's better to do this with an x t than with Ron smackdown. Because at least at least annexed he does feel like it has a bit more of an a distinct identity so with With with Roberson smackdown really does feel like the same people mixing it up with Alex T. There's a little bit more juice to it because of that. Yeah okay all right. So you've endorsed that good to know. I need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts will come join join me Alan Four L. over in the press Paradise Appear Torch. VIP AS WE BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and chose news from around the world The US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place of residence passed in the Paradise to and we've done fun. Historical shows shows such as the we love our series celebrating glorious career of Jewish and thunder. Like I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about a classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety and you can expect lots of at the progress Paradise detailed torch. VIP Subscription Information and list of all the VIP benefits is available at Piero Torch Vip Info Dot Com. And yes all VIP Alcazar compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices or you can stream them directly from our ad free. VIP Mobile Site C in the paradise. WE'LL WRAP UP KURT events here with a rundown of power struggle. Yes power struggle. It was new Japan's last big shows a year. And Our yes yes Lived up to the advertising and they also have pro wrestling in Japan. So it's you know all across the board And it's new. So there you go I mean this is largely archly about building up the the Tokyo Dome shows and I like the direction it feels like the the last few months the the matches. I haven't been that interesting in terms of what new Japan's been presenting but I mean that's clearly a strategic move because they do have these two Tokyo Dome's that they want to fill up and they're trying to you know save the biggest stuff that they can for that show and so they're you know they're sort of they're doing lesser feuds right right now in part you know so that when they got the you know to wrestle kingdom. I don't feel like Oh here are the here are the big once. So where should I start here. Let's start with Ta Shee and abuse she against Okada and Yoshi Hashi by the way Geraldton. Hashing Quota Gucci Versace Kazuko. Caught on Yoshi Hashi. If you cannot guess who got pinned in this match. You've been following new Japan very closely. uh-huh because I I mean I don't even know what I would do for odds going in about like anybody other than person meeting and it was exactly who you thought would depend AFLA AFL match. They had the video package on the screen. which was a package of What was supposed to be Hiroshi Tallahassee fans being laid out and attacked by some sort of some sort of nefarious figure and it turned out to be Chris Jericho who is coming on January Fifth Jeff to to Wrestle Hiroshi Tunnel Wash and he says that's GonNa be Taha She's last match? I think probably that isn't the case but Who who knows and then Hiroto she accepted so that's one of the big matches in In January after that NATO beat Taichi and doc. This was fine although I am tired of this feud and ready for it to and and I think it's finally over and Naito can move on to bigger and better things then they had a republican three. CK against soo-keun and I like this match. I wasn't expecting that much but I thought it was. I thought it was very fun match. Some people weren't as high on it as I was Suzuki going to pull out every trick. show show is doing such a great job selling I mean he was he was just selling soft soft- Making making it look like he was in Paralimni. Might lose this match and but they pulled it off in the end and then afterwards words FANTASMA and issue more jumped Roppongi Three K.. So that's setting up a title match presumably at Wrestle Kingdom with those teams they may throw another team slater but clearly those are going to be involved then Tomohiro Ishii against cantor and this was a A very good match and A. and the story of the match was cantor. who spend the big the big? He'll of late. He had a Ishii beat with the back with With with the GTS and Hit Him with it and rather than go going for the pin. He lifted up Tomohiro Ishii and went for another GTS and you know. Sometimes we've you know we've seen this in the hubris of the he'll gets them in trouble but here KANTER got him up and hit him and other with with another GP GTS with his With his kneepads pulled down and and got the PIN. So I a Kanter came across as a Real real jerk there. And they're building him up for We'll talk about that a little bit later in the show l. but clearly Karaoke Goto. And maybe a Matt's match with cut your Shibata until I was we'll asprey in Bushey and this was different kind of weird match. You know. The the midst was used auspice stole the mist from Bushy Spray. Bray Acts Dummy gave Red Shoes an Oscar and ten freaked out with these Really goofy like over the top funny facials about lay cal exasperated upset. He was by hitting. The the OSS cutter on on red. Shoes is like something out of kids. You know kids comedy show And offer one of the end which was What you'd expect good match and afterwards offspring called anybody and nobody's showed up and so we you know he said I'm going to hold the title forever? Nobody can challenge me. You know whatever and that was when the time bomb video played on the on the screen and you saw cat stand saying thing and they did a countdown and Romeu. Takahashi returned with with cats and enact brace and they took off the neck brace to show that he's healthy again uneven to the ring and the threw himself into the barricade and he ran back up the ramp and he ran around taking bumps and fake selling. He did a bridge on his neck upside down like very Wyatt but around his neck and Osprey held the MIC forum. We'll talk while he was upside down in the brain pose on his neck rather than with his hands uh-huh it was wacky. Basically he was he was showing that he's he's healthy again and once back in things and he'll challenged challenged off spray for for kingdom and they hugged afterwards so nice to see her own way back and in good spirits and hopefully hopefully he He takes it. You know you safe when he When he returns? Because I I you know I don't want that guy to to get hurt again. It was Nice Nice Nice moment there was against rookie Goto for the intercontinental title. And you know the story was Jay was using all all of the tricks and go to just coming and coming and coming even with all of Jay's cheating and after all this interference Shibata finally came out and took out ghetto and choked him out but then Kanter came out and gave the GTS to go and then kicked Chabad in the face and attacked Shibata some some more and and that was what set up j being go telling us the classic Debbie Finish where the title match ends because somebody else costs. What's the Challenger the match to set up a new feud so there wasn't really resolution but new Japan doesn't do that that often so it was okay here and white white then call out Okada Nobuyoshi since he wants to winner on January fifth and instead Naito came out NATO challenged white and Bush came out and he wants to titles and Okada came out and he was kind of flippant and they left unresolved what they're gonNA do but They later spelled it out which is The basically the WRESTLEMAINIA tend scenario. Where J white and Well not exactly the same Jay White and in and To the United we're going to wrestle for the intercontinental title on January fourth and cousins. Go Kada in Koto Bouche. You'RE GONNA Russell Muscle flight abused title on January fourth and then the winners will meet to unify the titles on January fifth and the losers will meet as well in a Guess sort of a consolation prize match. So yeah that's that's power struggle. Alright anything else from From this week you WanNa talk about. There's nothing else this week that I want to talk about I. That's what I've been telling everybody when they when they try to start conversation with good good good so I want to talk about. I'm talking about with weight on Thursday show. Sounds good so we will end. End Our current events discussion there and we will go to the moment but since you are not a VIP member you don't get to hear part two of the fix where we answer email questions from VIP members who email fixed during the week this week. We have a very thoughtful long email from somebody breaking down Kenya. Maga's eighty w gimmick and comparing it to new Japan and being the elite and he wonders if Kennedy's on a good path that people are not recognizing yet So Todd Breaks down and talks about the stadium and where he thinks thinks he is right now relative to where he could be or should be or ought to Abi and then we're talking about whether last week was the worst week ever for. WWe listener sends in about. I don't know fifteen things that happened last week that were like really bad for. WWe Vincent Man and so- todd Assesses that also taught an I have a mock draft five people we would draft. We're we're not going to be in ring performers if we would've started wrestling promotion from scratch today and we We take turns picking five each and ended ends in a verbal brawl reminiscent of the end of aws dynamite. This week We we take some Some cheap shots with our last two picks tried to take an extra pick a sixth pick to get even with him for his fifth pick. All Hell broke loose. I don't know if I'd rather Jim Ross or moral Renaldo calling it all. Hell broke loose at the on. That question also does Paul Heyman get more credit than he deserves for the hardcore revolution. Extreme style of the nineteen nineties. This did he just pick up on something. That was already happening with Joel Goodhart so you may not have heard of her longtime VIP members certainly do And then What's the story? Corey was smackdown. Not Having Brock Listener Ronda Rousey or sports like field. Wasn't that supposedly all that Fox wanted out of the steel back down just almost the be show again with the same old format it always had but with a new stage in logo is that is that what Fox wanted so we talk about that topic also what about. WWe switching to to a seasonal on demand streaming format where a whole season drops at once and it leads to a quarterly. Pay Per view reader. Had that idea or listener that idea and sent an email and on that so we respond to that idea who will be a more active champion in the next weeks or months brock listener or the fiend and is Roman reigns language Lang all right now. Are they keeping a low profile with him but he is going to rise from this kind of quiet slumber. He's been he's been main eventing smackdown itself but it's not like they've they've been pushing them as their top star lately. Is he going to rise up and be the guy who beats the fiend. We react to the The signs of whether that is happening or not also somebody emails and goes how. How can anyone take the talented Adam Cole? Seriously as a big stage star given how this week his size was exposed as being a disqualifying factor so todd replies applies to that also is it fair to compare cody Rhodes to bret. Hart is error. Shouldn't say fair. Is that a comparison between two similar wrestlers in different era's so all that and more analysis insight nonsense on par to of this week's fix with Todd Martin. This was simulcast. This is part part. One of the fixed simulcast is podcast. This also is made available to be happy members with ads and plugs removed like this and then put the mail bag with todd. It's exclusive this week for VIP member so Gopi we ever going on. I mentioned that during the early part of the show. Just go torch. VIP Info Dot Com enter Coupon Code holiday one nine as in the year. Nineteen Twenty Nineteen holiday. One nine And that'll take eight dollars and fifty cents off any subscription to the membership so you can get a one month subscription for about fifty or a three month or one year subscription The eight fifty off ninety nine dollars price point brings it down to ninety dollars in fifty cents so That's a good deal that twelve. 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WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Powell talk Dynamite bringing fans back, Thunderdome, Summerslam, Takeover, Velveteen, more

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

1:51:21 hr | 3 months ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Powell talk Dynamite bringing fans back, Thunderdome, Summerslam, Takeover, Velveteen, more

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Jason, I was wondering what eighty w would do anything to counter. Thunderdome and they did announce maybe they would have anyway maybe the timing it was in the works in the timing was right or whatever but they're gonNA have I don't five hundred to eight hundred fans roughly depending on what they consider the capacity of daily wrestling but it's around fifty five hundred according to online. About five hundred, eight, hundred fans in attendance in group pods. So if you go with one person, you've got a two person pod. If you go with six people, get a six person hot socially spaced out they must wear masks I mean. It should help the atmosphere with the ticket price what it is they should be making. A decent amount of money. Again on. Way. Less than they want. But you know a decent amount of money to help offset the cost your your thoughts on the prudence of this move both will mostly for safety reasons but also PR. I'm okay with it because it is an outdoor venue I mean obviously, they have to enforce the policies and and if they're able to do that and people are spaced out properly and it's not just a cluster trying to get into the building and they do enforce the mask policy. Okay I wouldn't feel the same way about an indoor venue and apparently the state doesn't either or the city of Orlando. Man. Refuses to allow WWe Fans I. Don't know if wwe push for, but that was one of the The. One of the details regarding the use of Amway Center. Was a fancier loud and so you know I mean with aide De. WWe had an outdoor venue and they were going at ten to fifteen percent capacity and spacing people out. Okay I guess. I would not want to be among the first group in weighed. Some people will for me like I'm fine with doing it but I would rather hear the details of how it goes and they get people in and out of the venue and if everything's enforced but Yeah. But that's just me. Yeah they they noted in a press release they've added industrial fans. To the facility. This week, I didn't know there was an actual company name. Really Oh that's awesome. That's. Been Jenner Fan is a big man if you yeah it's not even like a cussing do a search for big ass fan and you will see big big ass fan dot com. It's a real thing. Are there thick boy fans I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's the next next brand sensation advance that boy. So. Yeah and to me the the issue is. Not, just fans hanging out without masks if they aren't normally drive into the building together or part of their own little we all. So many of us have our little ecosystems of people that were around because we've evaluated. That they're in a small circle, they're they're taking enough precautions and we feel fine being around him. And so people are driving to the show in a minivan or an SUV, or crammed in. Hundred and seventy-five. Chevy Chase. Vacation. Movie. What's what's the kind of car they drove during? Queen's family trickster. Some kind of station wagon, whatever it is they're already. They're already around each other. So keeping them together in a pot I think whatever that constitutes I'm kind of curious open space age pods with led lights and all kinds of stuff but. You. Know I mean that that's To me that's my concern is is when it comes to the bathrooms like if you go into a room and other people are in their in their masters and their mask is down and they're coughing or or breathing or just shouting or wooing, and you walk in and you're walking into the same staller up to the same urinal or up to the same sink. I've seen articles on this. I mean even with even with you know what they thought was good circulation. Those germs can just hang around in a small room like that and. So you know like read articles you know it's not the beach is that a problem? It's the bathrooms that people who go to beaches that are using the problem. So that's where you know if AWA wants to not be part of accelerating the problem in Florida. Then then that's that is a concern in terms of how they manage bathrooms and confess concession stands and stuff but I. my initial reaction is it seemed like this press release. conveyed. They're taking this seriously and that's step one, and then the next is like you said, executing it. With with seriousness and making sure that that there are ramifications for not for not following. So it's it's going to add to the atmosphere wrestlers will I know from talking to the last several months? They want that action back I mean they just they crave that and it's harder to wrestle when you don't have and that will. Also give aws some hints Jason of WHO's over and who's not like having eight hundred people five, hundred, eight, hundred people reacting to things is gonNA give them and it's going to be these are Awa fans who feel special be part of this this small group they're going to be generous to the product, but there's going to be an intensity to the cheers and a natural reaction or not reaction to some things I do that'll be a good gauge for for booking to and I think Tony Kahn and the bookers have missed that to. Like it is going to be. Probably. A lot of hard core fans attending this. So I mean it will help. I. Don't know if it's going to be an honest gauge like running a regular venue obviously but I here's my solution to the issue if if people aren't doing what they should. When they get their tickets, they signed a waiver and in that waiver. Like if you don't adhere to the policies. They get to film. Lance Archer beating the holy hell out of them. I like it a lot of purposes. Yeah Yeah Yeah I I liked that it helps get lance archer over it entertains us. It scares people and. Taking this seriously even if the rest of their life, they don't respect to the privilege of being at an aws show So Yeah I. Think we should. Get. A petition going online for that little risky for Lance. Mass Land. What if some guy like violates it but he's like this. Heavyweight champion. And it's risky for Lance because he tries to beat the guy, the guy shouldn't be lands up but then they then they have a new star. That's true. H like eighty w dynamite underground. Yes. All right. So I'm curious if aws anything else in terms of staging and presentation as counter programming to Thunderdome, the fact that xt's not doing a ton or anything. To ramp up their look. This triple h says, they got their hands full with. Their higher priorities was essentially implied in we answer that. Raw smackdown a pay per views is keeping them busy, and then he says, you know the line, you know our relationship with full sales, one of the greatest things in professional wrestling history. Slightly exaggerating, but boy does he he felt that And full salesman great for them in a lot of ways but. If. A small indoor facility where they're not gonNA have fans anytime soon and they're just GONNA have A. Lower level guys banging on plexiglass for months to come. Well Thunderdome is going on in aws crowds reacting I mean, I think it will. People will be less forgiving as viewers of a show that doesn't have an atmosphere that seems to be progressing back to normalcy or or taking advantage of technology like, thunderdome perhaps. I expect well. You know it might. It might turn people off to the product if they have an alternative that does feel more lively and more just frankly normal. I couldn't help it Wunderlich did he did they have some agreement in place with full sail where they're locked in for a while it because it does seem strange that We're just GONNA, blow off Annex T and keep them there and not provide them with any atmosphere. I know last night show was taped but I would've debuted thunderdome there Kevin done kind of talk about smackdown basically being a test run, which is Kinda. Hilarious. It'll be seen by far more people than the paper view but I I would have made that if they had the system in place. Your. UNOPPOSED. Alive live show from. The at him to with Thunderdome for annex t and see what kind of number you can draw on opposed and I. But I mean, they're they're staying at full sail and I guess he's going to put the the most positive spin on it. Then he can I, I didn't get the sense that. He I mean, he said positive things about full sail and all, but it didn't come off like the. No we don't want any part of that. I. Wonder if either again an agreement with full sail or. Vince, McMahon just should. No To two nights. A week is good enough. Well, the programming rights fees for an is tiny compared to. Ron smackdown. So from a pure chauffeur show budget standpoint. You know they thought I think it's going to cost a lot of money and they're not gonNA earn a lot of ticket revenue. There could be. Also. Playing into it from a pure spin standpoint for triple H. Is We want an xt to be differentiated from Ron smackdown that's part of that's part of our brand. Part of our brand is our setting different and. We have a chance to. Expand or evolve or change how we do things in various ways in our own ecosystem. But part of what people like about an extended part of what keeps on x t fresh not looking exactly like Ron smackdown and I think there's some validity to that I mean would be better. We'll probably will let's see what happens Friday next might be an exterior is might be breathing a sigh of relief after after the circa show that thunder could turn into. That's just a complete distraction from everything who knows. But one hundred might genuinely think the. Three episodes of Thunderdome a week might be a little too much. Let us do our thing and have it be more about what's going on in the ring and our video packages and that kind of thing. So I don't. Try to be fair. I did think last night's t show Jason was a lost opportunity and I felt it was the biggest lost opportunity was in that first twenty minutes they opened the show and they didn't advertise it was coming up there. Absolutely. Positively I I've seen numbers yet. So I have to put an asterisk next to it could be shocked and I could be wrong shocked. But there's people trying that show watching who normally don't watch. I was one of them I really watch live on Wednesdays because I cover Awa dynamite do right afterwards. Yes. So I was someone who was watching. I don't know who I was supposed to cheer for that opening match. WHO's Richland guy or is it Richland I? Mean? It seems like the just call them some of the two. And last I check our was some other character and I know what's going on with as an underdog he scrappy but he's cheating this guy seems to have an attitude i. don't like him I like I didn't feel and they didn't even like create some sort of video package. At the level of what they did a great job with with keithly and Karen Cross later, which is here's what's at stake two matches for the final two. have it can be forty five seconds you can get a lot done but. Let people know what's at stake having morrow in Vic Joseph and Beth Phoenix have to do all the heavy lifting to catch everybody up on what's happening is one thing. But then to put a match out there where it's just a weird match to decide to start your unopposed show with now, they're gonNa have multiple unopposed shows including next week. So it's not only it's not the only time they they had a chance but were you surprised that there wasn't just some sense of? I don't know if you overtly want to say you know we welcome some of our newer viewers who maybe haven't been making us their choice on Wednesday nights. I don't if you have to go that far but in their mind. I would've I would've catered more to them to try to win over 'cause they're you we know Jason there are people to watch dynamite they don't hate watch it, but they're not like. Ours, they're they're sweet. They're swing voters sway -able and but if you watched all xt for two hours, there was a lot of good stuff that might sway you. But I, just I just think out of the gate. They should have made more of a statement. Here's what the show's all about. Here's what we're all about and I think well I think. We want to put our best foot forward and that just seemed like a phone taped show. It did it. I didn't think much about the opening you're saying is absolutely correct and I praise impact on a regular basis i. think they would. Almost every week they will open their shows with a minute I I. Guess I've never time admitted minute or two just recapping what's what's been happening? And this I get it when you're running opposed to another show that you don't take that approach. But this was an unopposed episode. Why wouldn't you? I? Don't really get too cold open and you're right about rich Holland and Johnny gone. Like. Are we supposed to like? So. Yeah. There was just overall with that episode I just sat there on this just feels like it's go home show and. Care, that they were on a poster just doing their usual show there was nothing about it. That made it that it like if you didn't know if you are somebody who watches annex t live every week and you record dynamite and you're watching an x t, he wouldn't think that Oh man that they've loaded this show up for some reason. Oh, that's right. Dynamite not nothing like that. Yeah no I I know. I'm curious. We don't have the numbers yet you know what kind of growth but I guess we'll put you on the spot. Do you think do you think they do an extra hundred thousand like is it a? Ten percent increase a thirty percent increase. How many people? Because we haven't had this moment yet. You know we know what happened in September leading into dynamite. We I don't know how many people watch. And later watching. Or? Be like the average viewership even the people who of channels back and forth there only count if they have to show just counted as a half of you're. So they'll be counted as a full view or if they watched all of annex t the viewership should go up because you know twenty half years equals ten full viewers well, now those twenty years or twenty four viewers and other twentyfold viewers hopefully, people followed along on there there should be a sizable increase, it'll give us a window into. What potential? And dynamite would have on their own if they weren't head to head and it's exciting as it is to have the two shows head to head. An exciting frustrating for some fans we don't really know what that potential upside would be and I don't know that will know from these two weeks with these two weeks in a row with x t but any thoughts on on what you think the increase will be and people listening no by now. But I'm kind of curious what your what your estimate would be. Tim, we're chatting. Boy I. Mean they did six, hundred, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand last week I believe and if they can top. I think anything under eight nineteen has to be a disappointment. If you only go up two, hundred, thousand or less either that's gotta be pretty disappointing. Anything, above a million I think they'd be thrilled by I. Don't Know How realistic that is. There is still other programming wiz. With the convention and with the NBA Playoffs Nhl Playoffs are picking up to and. So. I would. I don't think it's going to be dramatic. All say eight fifty. Yeah and I think that's a fair trial. I mean the idea that they're gonNA just draw all of the dynamite viewers when there is an NBA game, there's Nhl playoffs there's still major league baseball and democratic. National Convention with some high profile speakers. It's you know I mean. Yeah it absolutely I although I think the show. As far as the Democratic convention goes just an hour it. The annexed ended at ten eastern and Brcko bomb and Kamala Harris came on in the next hour. So they were going head to head with some of the video features and and. Not Quite, as high profile moment. So that might have less than effect but nevertheless, yes so we'll see soon enough I don't Wanna I think I would be surprised. I'd be surprised that they top a million. You know my my over under probably. In the nine hundred, thousand range I shrink they should get a boost but yeah, we'll see we'll see soon enough. In Two thousand twelve annex t transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand USA Today, the torch VIP podcast annexed years back we'll be taking a weekly look at this page and exceeds early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom style from WT talks next every Saturday as we go. Back. To the day to track annex teas, rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for W TORTURE VIP members. Let's fogs and introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast, our Thursday flagship addition for August Twentieth Two Thousand Twenty I'm Wade Keller editor publisher founder of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter. Also host of the Weight Keller Pressing podcasts that we're doing here, and also the weed killer post shows that we do on our Red Red logo or read brand is just two different feeds. So if you haven't subscribed to the PLO shows yet, you're missing out on a lot of cool stuff just search. Wait Keller on your podcast APP and Click on the red logo. This show has the Blue Logo. Also I do a bunch of. PODCAST. Throughout the week the everyday wake hotline and host the fix a Todd Martin pay per view shows and more and also editor of P W torch dot com putting up live TV coverage and editing, and posting a lot of other stories from great contributors and Breaking News. So check that out if you haven't yet, it's newly redesigned and we have a lot of new writers we've added to the. Mix We're covering impact better than ever to with a variety of features. It's and MRS, column TV reports the night of the show and also a few tracker feature to kind of Putin perspective what the top are hauling. They've been going in the latest developments in them. So a lot of cool stuff at torch dot com if you haven't checked it out recently or never happened, it's mobile friendly and desktop friendly. The other voice you hear is Jason Powell from pro wrestling, dot net and other pro wrestling boom podcast Jason. Welcome. Back What a weekend coming up I mean thunderdome dynamite overlapping takeover followed by you know probably a five hour summer slam take counting the kickoff show and then. A, three hour raw thunderdome Oh and then and then impact the next night and and then annexed he on Wednesday night and then dynamite on Thursday night. Did I. Leave I left something to what? We're not even counting away new Japan's train along with your. Sanity and up by the way. We're GONNA pandemic. Yeah All this is happening and I mean it just it just like you like if somebody told you is going to be a pandemic. Would you expect pro wrestling to be this busy? No No. Yeah it's. It's amazing. Well, welcome to the show. We have a lot to talk about. We'll probably do a little more rapid fire to hit as many topics as we can than usual. Because there is just so much to talk about. But before we go further Jason Tell people about your website and your free podcast and the additional podcasts and benefits they get from being a pro wrestling dot net member. Sure. Let's start with the pro wrestling boom podcast is a free weekly podcast. Just do a search on apple podcasts or wherever you get your your podcasts at for pro wrestling boom. This week's guest is the man I love to hate he puts the BOO in boom. He is an independent referee. The first time I've had a referee on the show rob page like. A boom when I go to a wrestling event because I can't help myself he just brings out the worst in me but he's a good guest and we just kind of talk about different things that people might not think about when it comes to refereeing and just for instance, the difficulty these days in the modern era of. Tag Match compared to what it used to be like just a a lot of stuff in there from rob page. So even if you don't know rob, I, don't tell them. I said this, but he's a good guy number one. You'll probably learned a thing or two if you're not up to speed on. Things, and it's a good conversation in the boom usually drops on Tuesday I sometimes, we'll have a discussion with somebody in the wrestling media like wait and I are having today. Other Times will be a guest from within the industry you've court Bauer and Jim Ross and the list of long list of people do Bennett's et Nicole Davis, and you just go on and on with that who have been on the boom. So again, do a search for that the website. Is, pro wrestling God net and I'm updating that as often as humanly possible and doing live reviews of old major television shows and pay per view events running the news throughout the course of the day as well. So if you need to do is fix or you want to know what somebody to what somebody thinks about the show that you're watching just to visit pro wrestling dot net, and if you WANNA take it to another level, there is the membership. Side of the ad free version of pro wrestling, dot net, which just a ton of audio content audio reviews of all the major shows including all the shows from this weekend we'll have you covered with smackdown and Thunderdome, and of course, Saturday with next takeover dynamite. Oh, probably be delayed just because of the overlap there but usually I do same night audio reviews of Awa dynamite and of course, summer slam and if I could also mention the pro wrestling. Gotten live show will return on Monday three central four eastern on throwing along at us or just check the site for the details pw audio dot net will has dropped out as my co host. So I found his evil twin Johnny airplay will be joining me to discuss the crazy summer slam weekend. So listen live your calls are welcome. Again, it's Monday three central or eastern pw audio dot net. You missed any of that just visit the website pro wrestling dot net. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on PW. Torch daily. Cast Dot Com hosted by me PW torch columnist Greg Parks each week I'll welcome a CO host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling to your calls and emails. You can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view go on the. Air At the conclusion of that pay per view you can listen live but of course, the full show is available for download on-demand anytime shortly after it airs visit Pw Torch Daily Dot Com and click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show link search pw torch an apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday pw torch daily cast dot com. Let's go ahead and we've up some other topics. Thunderdome. It feels like six major stories ago but we still debuted a lot of hype on annex t last night. Four it they they seem excited about Kevin seems excited about it. The wrestlers I've communicated with seem excited about it. or I would say apprehension apprehensive but just eager to kind of see the structure and and how it all plays out. What have you have? You learned anything else Jason about what we should expect and what is your expectation for this experience I know. I put a story up on POW TORCH DOT com yesterday about the letter, the email that people who applied God in terms of the instructions you know where wwe apparel if you have it, do not wear political. Payroll with political statements or they didn't say but competitors or something that you know other branded things other than wbz be neutral. Otherwise they told them where to stand how much film of their body. Lighting and all that, which is good i. mean people need some direction as if you've. Ever tried to do like a facetime call with. Somebody over the age of sixty understand they need very people need various you very specific instructions on how far to be away from the Camera Lens I think So. So. Yeah and then and then they're letting people know we can put you on an led screen take you off just as quick. So do your have your best conduc so I still don't have in my mind really clear crisp picture of how this is GonNa look there's GonNa be a dome there's going to be projections going to be drones. There's going to be fans thousands of led boards that project fan reactions. There's going to be ambient noise, obviously a new entrance set of some kind. Obviously. Maybe they use the same entrance set and just hundred it Jason Your any other details to add and what are you looking forward to reading about this? I'm just going into this with an open mind. I know there's been some leaked shots of Thunderdome I'm not looking at them I just figured. got a little. pointy seven hours or whatever it would be from. Now way defined out I just WANNA to go in. I mean what you said is fine but I want to just kind of go in with an open mind and see if I'm wowed. See if I think this is way too distracting. This it's it's the most appealing part of smackdown for me. I won't say it's the most appealing part of summer slam for me but it for the first time will kind and actually looking forward to smackdown rather than Oh. Yeah. That's on and it's because of Thunderdome and so yeah, just going into this I don't know what to make of it. I Know Kevin done is very excited. It was unique to see him get out there and actually comment on this usually not something he does so clearly he's excited by it and I I mean it just It's something different something unique, and so for that reason I'm looking forward to it. I'm tired of seeing the ceiling fan. The BIG ASS fan at the performance I'm so happy that is going away and I'm happy with moving to a different environment and we'll just see what the hill thunderdome brings. I think it has a chance to be really really cool. It also has a chance to be really distracting hokey and. I don't know if w w even knows yet. How it's come across and they might adjust, they might find that certain things try don't work and they've been a they've been pretty upfront and honest about. This could be a work in progress obviously the budget to build the thing and they have computer replication of it that they've looked at. They're going to have to mess with sound and in the unexpected, the x factor is part of the charm which is having. Thou- Hundreds or thousands of of led boards you hover over the end up with a projecting fans reacting to things and trying to learn from what the NBA is done with led boards. What Major League Baseball is done with a cardboard cutouts fun seeing a homerun get blasted and knock the head off one of those cardboard cutouts in the outfield became game yesterday. That should be like you get with those twins had terrible. The twin head stuff lead legends. Yes. There are two big. Half. Their face fix this yeah. Yeah. Like I don't learning from from. It would be kind of fun to have. I don't know I shouldn't say this because either I'm serious I'm not in either way I could be in trouble but have. cutouts of the legends and in the crowd and. Heels can like knock the head off of certain wrestlers or something but. Anyway I think they're staying away from that stuff. So anyway, yeah, I'm excited for it I'm actually surprised it took them this long. In talking to a former WB producer and creative team member Christie Joseph who spent about six months with wwe. Mostly the first half this year he was around this pandemic and I talked with them in a VIP exclusive torch talk last week for about ninety minutes and you know he was just like, yeah, we had a lot of thoughts but we didn't know frustrated be able to wrestle each other for to cooking shows. You know there's so many unknowns when this started and then they didn't. Know How long this would last you know do we spend millions of dollars creating set when also we're going to get the all clear on July first? Well, that was a lot of expense for you know five weeks of TV. This to me is an indication wwe knows we might be in this for this. We're in this for awhile and now they know also that they've lost. Five ten fifteen percent more viewers than you would project based based on the trajectory of pasture patterns after Wrestlemainia and it's enough with the just general decline that has. COST WWE ship they're concerned and they need to spend some money and and be creative and try to win people over and energy to the show. Do you think that mysterious enough to make having not seen thunderdome but within the range of what you think of them will be do you think it's enough to some people back not just for the Gimmickry of seeing it but to just make the wrestlers feel like bigger stars to make the magical like a bigger deal. We need to see it I that that's the thing I mean. I just I don't know. What they do like even at the convention there. I guess my unsolicited advice to Eddie Wrestler to just stand there and wave awkwardly at mantra faces and then point one everyone say it just looked so forced and I think it's just natural. They're not forcing it. They're just trying to react, but it just looks so awkward. So I I would avoid playing to it as much as possible. But yeah, I I. I hope that it's really cool and provides a great atmosphere and were raving about this coming out of the weekend but it's just so hard to say this is going to be something that Vince McMahon and Kevin Don absolutely love and the rest of his from Lake. What are they doing or who else it's but that's what makes it fun. I. Can't wait until Friday night. Boy It'd be hilarious man it's a painting and it's just pulls the plug after the weekend. Well I I wanted to win whenever this thing ends presumably when fans return but there's GonNa have been pulls the plug. Are. They going have to get another warehouse you know they like to keep everything they do in that warehouse how are you going to keep thunderdome around? That's a good point. Yeah. They got branded like a airplane hangar. Available these days so many fewer flights natch true and we laugh because you know what what choice do we have. I'm seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Aloha torch faithful. This is Kelly wells of PWG talks and x t every Thursday, you can hear me and my gang of idiots, Tom, style, share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap. As well, as a rotating cast of guests, cover the matches and events in annex t live on USA network search VW torching, and Apple podcasts or podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire pw torch daily cast schedule at PW Torch daily past dot com. Cheers. Okay. So let's see. I WANNA bring up between dream and triple H is response to this I. This is partially about Velveteen Dream of course that's Subject, but it's also about triple H in his ability. To step up, and. Handle. A delicate. Legal personal embarrassing. Controversy and show that he's up for it and his quotes was CBS sports and his performance in the media conference call yesterday you're the one who asked him the question and good job by the way. The idea that we all assembled a pat on the back and say what a great job he doesn't. We love you what sometimes those media calls embarrassingly turned into. You know. It shouldn't be that if you're gonNA open yourself up to media, there should be the tough questions asked and you were early in the call and you asked it I don't think he was thrilled about it, but he should've seen it coming and Jason. He should have had a better answer he handed hod and said almost nothing and I don't think it's that difficult to come up come up with a better question if you weren't expecting it. But he demo should have been expecting it and he should've had some. Bullet points or a script written that he practiced that he worked with the lawyer in PR people that would not come across as wishy washy and. Just. Muddling through that answer. Am I overstating or what did you think? No, I ask a question kind of assuming that it would be a short answer but hoping that after the CBS and it came off kind of poorly he would be prepared to kind of give their side of the story why they feel comfortable letting Patrick Clark Russell and just something instead of what we ended up getting, he really should have been prepared I mean, because at look no, I wasn't the only one that was going to ask that question I just happened to be up early in the call actually heard from. Somebody else you know appear that said Hey took my question greg good job and whatever and So it was going to come up whether it was me or somebody else and I don't know if he just don't. Interested in the CBS interview this is done no no in its but. There's another allegation that's CERTA. Popping up online again last night from somebody else who said that they haven't been contacted by WWe and I don't know if I believe it's like somebody who was part of the first wave of allegations I don't know all the specifics on that. It's I kinda compared it in the dining weekly audio show today to the way like ring of honor with there the the approach they're taking to cove it when you have when you're proud of what you were doing when you in an or in this case, you feel good about the investigation or your reasons for allowing this man to continue working for you. Then you're going to lay all your cards out. You'RE GONNA have no problem doing it, and that's what ring of honor did with their very comprehensive Cova testing plan for their taping. No problem doing couldn't wait. You just sent out press releases about it with this it was the opposite. So you're kind of left going will what what Did you do an investigation you you claimed you did but there's these people say that they were the heart of the allegations and you never reached out to that just nothing and he considers a done deal and any shouldn't. I. Yeah. I was I was surprised to appoint more than anything disappointed. I thought he would have handled it better and that's why say this is a story about velveteen dream. It's also story about AAA h readiness to to. Be. He's what fifty, fifty, one years old he should be able to handle. Issue like just now granted, maybe he would handle it differently if he were in charge of a wrestling company like Tony Kahn is, but he's got to worry about what Vince, McMahon and the corporate heads say think about what he says, but he should have had more support I mean he's just absolutely should have had more support from public relations and legal on how to speak about that issue that he loves. He loves wrestling he loves being the guy in charge of annex t I mean I don't doubt that that comes through. Don't know that he loves this side of the job. So that tells us something he didn't come ready. any. The he should have anticipated this. Having in Hong Answer So I, he should have had more help. From wwe corporate, but he should have been able to come up with something better I mean i. just don't know how hard it would be to say. To to just fall, but it's like someone said, Oh just say you take allegations seriously and we looked into it and there was nothing. He didn't even go that far like he didn't say there was nothing. He uses this weird muddled language that the thing that people thought was there wasn't there what was going to be there wasn't there like it wasn't precise. It looked like he was. Try to me it came across as if he was scared to be clear because being clear and concise could be used against them. So he sort of stopped with sentence fragments and I'm Dan avoided just saying what like you said if they're proud of it, say it and. I. Again, this is a weird thing it could be it's not. Criminal. It's not worthy of of cancelling velveteen dream. Entirely. But. It's sort of embarrassing and you know on a personal oh, we don't want to talk about it or we're not sure some people were lying I don't want to call them liars 'cause we could be legally liable with all of that Khan with all that that I don't know that might have been at play. He just could have said something much more clear along the lines of we did internal investigation went what we determined made us comfortable. May continuing on with with velveteen. Dream on our TV shows we continue to look into this and we're going to continue to explore and look for more information where we ran into some dead ends I. Don't know I mean I. Even that's not. Great I was thinking about this earlier and I had a even a better answer. Just sort of that I thought would cover to cover the basis more generically it's not my job to do it, but it is triple H is in its PR legal. and. It shouldn't topic this week and it's turned into more of a topic. Then it should have been had they had a better. Ideally, they could say we found out that this is not at all how it was presented by people online and that you know what here's Patrick Clerk to explain each side of the story yes. Yes. Because he's on record saying those were those were his photos but they weren't but they were. On authorized they were sent. In he in an authorized way that he didn't he wasn't the one sending him. So he's out there with the statement so. It could have just back that up. He could have said you know Patrick spoke on this. He said that you know there were personal photos that got sent without his permission. We looked into it and we found out that that was the case. If not then he lied because he knows will be center or not I mean unless he's like really forgetful. And that's weird. So I just think he made a statement they should be able at least say whether that statement is true based on their investigation and then when you br brought up nine jacks but you're also brought up this other person, they didn't get back to one hundred I don't know if he wasn't aware of it or if Hunter said, well, you know there there are a lot of people got Ahold of some. We didn't get a hold of others but our investigation made us made us believe that the statement Patrick, Clark made. That, you know he was not part of this. He did not send the. You know I don't even. I don't think he even wants to get into specifics to be quoted about because I think he thinks perhaps it'll rev up the story again. So he's not even saying things about pictures or. or or unauthorized use of pictures without his like he won't address. He hasn't addressed any of the specifics in you gave him that opportunity to do. So in clean up the CBS sports and I didn't think the CBS sports writer was particularly impressed either based on the framing of the quotes. Right. I if nothing else. It should have been. Not going to comment specifically on this. But when we do an investigation into something like this, here's what we do here is who's in charge of it. There's none of that Yup, we're still left wondering okay good and you ask them that detail your investigation he did not do that. You specifically ask for it and he did not do that, and then he just made it clear. I want to move on what I said to CBS sports is sufficient and I'm sorry wasn't that's why you desk follow. Exactly. You're. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk the join me Jason Powell hosted the three weekly pro wrestling Boone podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members, plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribe and I tuned stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at PW BOOM DOT com. Once again, that's PW BOOM DOT com. Since, we did bring up a team. What do you think about his match last night the main event, the presentation of his character going he'll last week and the fact that he isn't that ladder match on Saturday. Setting aside the controversy with triple H, in the in the bungled way, I think it's been handled in a PR way so far. So what do you think of his character in the match last night and a where he is in the annex t scheme of things right now That's the thing. It really is hard to just set that. Aside I mean as much as I given our position I try and and it's not just him. I mean I had a similar. She just turned to separate what I was seeing TV from knowing that you know Chris, Jericho and performed concerts in. sturgis. And and here is on television days later in. At the D. A dynamite show. Doing the best I can with it. I mean, well, again, it's so hard to and I don't think I'm alone in this. I, think anyone who's following the story is feeling the same way and they have to know that they you know it's he wanna feel good launching these guys perform and women performed A. Because they're handling it poorly. It's hard to feel that way but as best I can. He's I mean. The the thrill is gone even before they even before any allegation. I I really enjoyed the velveteen dream character at one time. It. Just hasn't really evolved. The He'll turn I guess you can say that's some evolution but. There's just I don't know it needed. It needs something more and he needs to get better. He is as much as we were raving about. Okay. There's know rough around the edges, but he does these things really really well, and he's only this age I give him some time. He's had some time and I still see kind of the same weaknesses in his game. I'm with you I think his best his. Peaked a year ago roughly and his character was modeled and he hasn't grown as as the act hasn't grown. It's of fun. Dongo is as a little bit kind of cardboard pull the string let go. Here's what his character does. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of a lot of compelling layering to it and I the the issue with the character was always do I believe. This is who he is or is he trying to be something for the sake of being provocative like is he provocative or is he trying to be provocative and he still comes across as he's trying to be provocative? And it's not just. Really is and there are people where you watch and like Oh God. That's who this is and with him it's like. I'm not saying it's not there's not some foundation in him where he's pulling from, but it doesn't feel fully fully natural and authentic like Rick Rude just because he does some, he's a mosaic of a lot of characters Gold Austin on recruits, one of them. Randy savage like rude you just knew rude with route. Authentically like he didn't think Oh this is some different type of guy who then puts on the recruit act like that's he seemed like that Tim and I, just am not there with dream but I think you're gonNa ruin was like well grow more into this. He's so young like you said any and he just hasn't. So part of me just like like wishing for the end of somebody's career necessarily. When I say this but I'm just not sure that he's worth the risk and there's always that fact that factors into it happens in sports. There's people who are worth taking it pr hit for and some who aren't. You know Adrian Peterson do you think if a third string running back on the same team had done the same thing? The Vikings would have held onto him. In light of all the L. or the allegation of child abuse against him the hell now yeah, exactly. Exactly. What do you think of the the ladder match and who comes out of it and where are you on? Bronson retake boy in his rise in his push. If you stop calling him thick boy a like a lot because I still think that sounds corny. But other than that. I really liked Bronson rate I don't think he's a winner I think. It may swerve but if it's because it is an x t booking rather than main roster booking main roster booking says Damian priest wins because Broughton beat him and that way they've priests makes up for the loss winning the title and Bronson read is right there to be the first challenger. So I'm I'm going with that I think gaming pretense of winning. Yeah I. Hope Not. I can't excited about it. Yeah. I would much rather have somebody win who's going to get more out of it. I mean. You know. Should priest win can make Casey should win. I'm just saying on a personal preference level in terms of elevating somebody else and making the North American title about that I don't know it's weird because priest is hardly like this long established main event or it's not like giving you know Gargano the win where it's like. Well, it's almost down. But. I don't know. I I mean like, for instance, Cameron Gripes is were you on him? would. You rather see camera grants when the Damian priest or is that an example of somebody who? Would have to lift him up and he might not be ready for. Grimes. Ways other than promos in the way that characters presented a in the ring we know he's ready. It's those promos that the way he just comes off as this false bravado he'll. It screams mid card. He's really over the top and I WANNA see him able to flip the switch and I don't know maybe Bruce. Mitchell has seen that he's able to do that on the Mike because Bruce courses us all of his stuff in cw have mid-atlantic and and raved about him for years and. I can see why but not from the Promo standpoint I'm hoping he has that ability and it's just that's how they want him to play this right now but it's a little too similar to what I saw him doing in impact and I always kind of blamed impact like quit making this guy out to be the duke is hey, seed the difference there. I mean they just booked him so. He was playing the character of the same way, but he just was a bumbling idiot. He would lose most of his matches where at least they're. Somewhat protective of him, you always don't like is he is he going to win the title? Is he just going to it? It's like the just up and down with him like one week you'll think out there they protecting and they're gonNA, make him a star and lose a couple in a row. So he's hanging round and we've seen others in t that where early on you kind of wait for them to finally get behind this person and then okay, it's his turn now and they do I think there's a limit to how far he can go if that's the only way he can play that character because it that is a limiting in and of itself. Was A who is your the person? You'd like to see win the match just on a personal level because you think it'd be the most interesting to watch if you kind of set aside the prudence of the business decision. So I. Guess. It would be read or even despite what I just said grimes if there's another gear for him like. As a performer as a character I'm either one of those guys and. Jamie and I said I wouldn't be excited about it. It'd be fine. It's just not fresh and exciting. Yup. They also set up a fin valor in Timothy Thatcher, which is a Interesting match I think that as a chance to be a surprise of the night in terms of what we see in the rain. Should be really good. No. No No. No question about that I'm curious to see if it's They're gonNA thrust valor into the title picture, and so he has to go over I mean we did Jesse. Thatcher. Pass out in Dexter Loomis Tis hold which I thought set him back a little bit so he could use a win one more lost especially to someone like bachelor isn't GonNa destroy him but yeah, very seal the booking of that match out. It's velveteen dream the least likely to win now based on what played. Yeah absolutely should if I mean they do that then i. Album, just completely scratch might like what what are you thinking even if they were going to have him when they shouldn't I know that's the thing I mean, it would feel like an active defiance. To, do at this point. All right. Kodi. Women's Championship. Did you like what they did last night to to give you more reasonably Dakota should win. I've been a fan by the way. The shirai that taking her limited English and creating this whole mystique in brand branding overthrew the pros production of those vignettes. I just think it's something I actually serves a ton of credit for. You know they're they're taking her weakness and I won't say turning it into a strength but they're. In a way they are because. She's so distinctively brandon in the way she presents herself and the weight the vibe that those videos give off. You really have a sense of who she is and I hope she goes to the main roster that they bring that with them and the person who does those continues to those. I really had. They've done a great job with that and she. Boy, A. A. Has Been so damn Vaughn I really like her and Gonzales together and we get to that. Show we went to shortly after they were kind of put together. And I just remember thinking it'll be fun to kind of watch them work out the kinks watching I. Don't know how you vote Wade watching that show the two of them together I think they face teague Inox am. We'd been together for years. I thought they just had chemistry. They're so good together and when rebel disappeared from TV for two to three weeks like, oh no, they calling her up already because she's big. What is it? I? Mean? There's just don't bring up this act and I kind of wonder why she disappeared it's hard not to anytime someone disappears from television from wwe these days because they don't disclose things but I'm happy she's back and I think the way they built that Maj. People have kind of grumbled that Kayce sold as much as she did a two eight hundred remember her opponent Jesse I can't remember name Because she kind of an undercard person and here's kyw going into this title mashing for me. It was no that's why it's different I would I would agree in most cases, you don't have your challenger look weak to somebody that you know we've barely seen on television on a go home show but that's the of character I mean she should look a little vulnerable and it's because she has the threat of Raquel. Gonzales. I really thought that was well booked I I like that and I like the two of them together. I just wanted the title so I I'm not expecting a title change for that reason, but I would not be disappointed because I really like high in Gonzales is an act. Yeah, Yep. I agree with your analysis on that and what they've done to make. Dakota. If not seem like a threat on herself, somebody that you could imagine being championed because her presentation and everything surrounding her seems to have elevated her to more than just well, who do we go? Let's go with her this month. It feels it feels like it could be the beginning of something bigger than that I? Don't think so but accomplishing that I'm surprised that I, feel that they accomplish that on the time had. I was show word. So when she had that amazing brutal beatdown of Teagan Knox when she turned heel, I was worried that was going to be the peak like, okay. She'll defend teagan and whatever it is. It's. It may that may be the peak or the actual attack itself and I no longer feel that way I think she's going to be just fine. Some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are v IP exclusive and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content including Pro Wrestling Torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show. I. Usually host that program although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means also the fix with todd. 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I'm loving this and I you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who just was more annoyed by patent. And that guy is stupid shorts. All of that I was happy Michael Yeldham at Wrestlemainia like go away. But now that he's a, he'll he's just perfect for this and he's he is doing a really good job at the the one little thing that stood out to me was kind of the the posture just in the ring. That didn't look natural wasn't bad for considering where he's at in his element. But yeah, he didn't look there's just something that felt a little forced about the hand gestures and just the way he was standing that can get better but I mean I I think he's doing a great job I. I'm really looking forward to that match and I think that Listening to VAC in the media call he seems really excited about this and basically saying. On this and I'm not I. I. Think they may surprises I. I don't know if the show is taped. If going why with this it was hoping that would come up during the media call. If it's taped obviously it's going to be fine I'm hoping it's live I. Want to see what he can do. I would love it and I love to see it live with the pressure of that ended and deliver the match quality in the way that it plays out I mean. Be Bells and whistles, but I think there's enough to work with they can succeed with bells and whistles what. Is there anything fearing in terms of what they do here like is there any circumstance under which pat? McAfee, should get a win so they continue the feud or I'd be fine with wouldn't you don't pin them clean yeah threat. But yeah so. Conniving victory is just some fluke thing or he falls on top of coal that'd be fine by me, and then you just get. A month of Maccabi bragging and refusing to give a rematch, and then jumping happens where he agrees to it in time for the next Tako I just fine with that. Is that I'm call now getting set up to be kind of the defacto lead baby face or co-lead baby face with. Keith Lee. After this I mean I I just it feels like such a natural way for cold and not have to suddenly be a suck up but instead as a counter to McAfee and McAfee say the lines McAfee had I don't know if he's doing this on his own or who's working with them. But some of his lines I mean I'm a superior human being I'm a superior athlete and I walked into your world and dominated out of the start and a took you all this journey all the you know. High School high school gyms and stuff like that. I mean he was triggering. They are targeting the new mark. So to speak the Internet fans in their mind, they see as a different kind of mark from those in the seventy s the ones who they can fool, but it's so hard to hit that note somebody who knows it's a work is still triggered and still pissed and they genuinely want to see somebody lose and that is a new art and and their mind I, think that they are hitting those talking points in pushing the buttons in a modern way with. Their language and it can easily tip into not swinging amiss. You know some of the South End Jeff is doing is was just like, no, it's hard to even explain what works and what doesn't when you start bringing up some of the behind the scenes Meta stuff but I think he pulled it off I mean I think that was a template for it and I think he can actually work not only for you know for him however long he does what he's doing right now but it's It frames Adam Cole for his fans who already liked him. In an effective way to transition into being the the defender of the locker room and McAfee is basically talking about Kohl's bullet points and then colds just walking up to him and having fewer words but not. But having that look on his face, it says, I'm ready to kick your ass. I. Again, I mean I think they're intended effect of wanting. It's just I wrote this it sucks that there aren't fans to react to this because this is a match that deserves a live audience. That was the best segment on the show. I can't even make a case they should have opened with that just. So people actually get a chance to see that in just a move on or whatever. They I think they put at the top of the second hour, which has just in time for the convention to start unfortunately. But yeah. I really thought coal did what he needed to do I i. like the Sole Look of concern that Pat McAfee showed when he ended up alone in the ring with call security was gone he didn't do the over the top bug is like Oh, my God is you know a novice might do I mean let's remember this guy has been created I don't know. How much he's done at the performance center, but he's been training to be or I don't know how frequently that training has been as he going once a month is. All winning going five days a week but he's been training for a few years now. For the in ring but even just the subtleties. I, thought were there I I in Col- though just Say. I thought that was laid out really well, he beats up security and he could have gotten his hands on McAfee. But he knows he just has to wait a few more days and he tells them basically I'm GonNa kick your ass and that was all it was needed a great segment. we had a, we had the video package on keithly and carry and cross. Those. Really, well done. One of the best things on the show also wish there was something original I. Think. Having a go home baby-faced Promo to me is just a rule on the lascaux before paper view when you have a world. Champion I think they should give a mission statement. Promo I just always make time for that whatever rational you have not do it. I don't care. It's. It feels weird. Did Not hear from the baby face in a fresh I run setting, but if you're not going to do that. With that asterisk next to it I thought that was a really nice video package. It felt it had that energy the possess the cool factor and the sense of adding. Just Gravitas to what's going on here I thought it worked really well what did you think? You have an unopposed shell. You don't have your champion. Even address like. I thought they would've played up the missions even be able to go. He took fireball. There was none of that and then you have that a terrific cross and scarlet entrance didn't get to see that I can at least live with. Okay. From a story line perspective maybe they felt like, Lee shouldn't have been on the show. How do you not have? Korean cross scarlet on how do you not find time for that entrance on an unopposed show I thought it was a mistake I I liked the video too. I thought it was good. But totally with you, we needed something original Yup I'm data sense right now Keith Lean Karen Cross and whether we're GonNa go with this match. Like is GonNa finished at least to a rematch or is this a Finnish were across winds keithly gets called up or is this keithly wins and carrying cross get split off into a new feud? Yeah we can go so many ways I get one thing to watch for his match order is how is Usually not an issue within exte- of this isn't the main event. I see a cheap I could see maybe tomorrow Champa comes. Back. And we get a cheap mission go Maccabi coal is main of the shell I don't know. Or the I guess the ladder match probably would then if it is the main event and they're gonNA, give us a Finnish. Think it can go either way I lean cross with the idea that he wins the title and Keith League goes up to the main roster but. It's not something they do normally you could flip that around maybe they wanNA fasttrack on cross scarlet up to the main roster. I'm. Not, even. against. Drew. McIntyre. Needing opponents and cross being main roster ready. You can make that argument. I mean I think it might work better. You know I think he's he's one of the acts that would work better on the main roster than annexed even though it's not not working at T. Yes I mean. That's the fun part about this weekend I'm looking forward to these shows I mean Friday's about thunder but. Saturday I look forward to McAfee look forward to this main event the the the next title match at the. Ladder matches fine. It'll be part of it but really looking forward to the uncertainty of that main event, the the true made event, the antics title match, and the same goes for summer slam with McIntyre and Orton. I. Don't feel like I definitively know. Those matches and that's a fun feeling I. Just hope they don't spoil something between then. I. Agree. A stigma. Saturday, night for a moment though it's aws putting on a pretty big show. And it will overlap takeover to some degree. What is time for it for takeover? Takeover well, see. I wonder if they will do. An hour long pre show it's usually five thirty, central six, thirty eastern for the three show and they go thirty minutes. But this time they've added a match and I think the reason the matches there is because they don't against dynamite. And it's I. Think. Maybe I'm wrong I they've had. Dark matches that they've taper TV in the past but I don't remember there being very many pre show matches. So I think that's why that's there so. At. Eight W at best starts at five central six during the NBA game is probably going to push back even more. So get the DVR's ready and set them to go along. Just a reminder. We have a VIP going on nine dollars off any VIP subscription that brings a one month subscription down to ninety nine cents. This is a great time to try a VIP membership, Ninety nine cents, and now when you sign up on our sign up form, you can choose to pay with paypal or you can enter your credit card or debit card securely safely directly on our simplified shorter sign up for him. We just remodeled website. We just remodeled the sign up form and we made it easier than ever to pay in about ninety seconds. You can be a VIP member for the next four month for just ninety nine cents go. Dot Com slash KGO VIP go to the sign up form and enter Coupon Code Summer Twenty Twenty Sale that summer twenty, two, thousand. And that'll give you nine dollars off a one month sub. You can also apply that nine dollar discount to a three month or one yourself pw torch dot com slash Kgo VIP Coupon Code Summer Twenty Twenty. Now, you can pay directly with your credit card or debit card right on or short and simple sign up for. Awa bringing bringing on a semi load lineup for dynamite. Cash DAX FDR. Against Private Party. The elite against dark order. So the young bucks and and Kenny. Version of them Darby Allen is advertised as being an action cody defending against Brodie. Lee Not some new guy. We never heard over a mid card guy. You can make brody leaping mid card. But a step up from most of these opponents surprise opponents. And what's the other thing? Oh, in Orange Cassidy, their advertising, his first ever in ring interview. Trying to think of my missing anything 'cause I don't have a lot of in front of me but. I. Think there was some. UNDERCARD I mean it's it's not. I wouldn't say it's as loaded as some of the shows we've seen on paper recently, but it's not far off the they're not just phoning this. Yeah. Yeah and I mean, those are a number of big names. I am I am curious when they get fans in the venue what the reaction Orange Cassidy is. Yeah, I is it just crazy over the top we love this guy it could be if it's anything short of that I, think it'll be disappointing but I am curious what what they ventured to do. With his character when he has that in Ring Promo, I assume it's not just a promo, but also an angle and that'll be workers Jericho shows up but Yeah I mean there's a lot to say because it's not a pay per view or takeover type event for them. But it's there's a lot of stars on the show. And I think it's attractive enough that it'll. Done regular to my viewers aren't GonNa be like well, this is capable. This seems like a really solid lineup they're not thinking. Well, we're on Saturday up against takeover. Let's not let's just kind of do a filler show. Which your guest for that viewership. ooh. Maybe. Given. The circumstances the plus three is it. I I would think. It's Twenty percent lower than normal. That'd be my guess. I was GONNA say. I'M GONNA say in the five hundred. Yeah so the the live viewership. Last week was just under eight, hundred, thousand before nine, hundred, thousand. Week before that seven, hundred, seventy, five, thousand. So if I'm saying twenty percent down and I look at what, let's say the roughly eight week average here. Of viewership they eight week average is seven, hundred, twenty thousand. So if you not twenty percent off of that, you're at six, hundred, twenty, five, thousand. So I'd be a little higher than you're saying in five hundred. Yeah not speaking out of it I, think they can. They can be pleased I will I mean I guess my over under would be five, ninety five that's my over-under. Okay. Yeah. So we're not. We're right in the same. I'd be really surprised if Saturday night up up against takeover. For part of it if they. With a weird star time when the NBA Games answered. And do they do a? Nice lead into the game. Yeah. If Games good and then if they don't do a long post show talking to you know they don't talk. For Twenty, five minutes till they get to the top of the hour two part of that can play into losing some of the audience. But if it's like this hot overtime game and then boom, they go into it I mean they might have people watching the normal, but they might have some new people watching who are. Lapsed. Who Don't like to be and they're like, Whoa, this is good. So I am curious what what Awa doesn't terms of do they present that show? I don't faith do it because I think if there's an area they fell short it's it's. Rolling out the rolling out the welcome Mat explicitly, for new, people in Novice viewers. They just don't do that. It's it's. This is a club. We already have our routine in our in our ways of doing things and you gotta learn as you go. But following an NBA game on a different night I would think that they would. I would hope that they would do something at the top of the show that would feel a little bit like we were talking about earlier with what we thought Annex Teasha do. True and and by the way Tony Kahn's a liar. What he did. Yes You said, he would never run against the NFL. The second Thursday game of the season dynamite was bumped. Thursday it's not his fault, but I did find that Kinda funny that never do it never do it and then because of the pandemic and everything I'm sure that's all it. You know they were they just got bumped to from Wednesday to Thursday and aren't nfl fan like me going Oh no which game is it don't worry as the battle of Ohio between the Bengals in Brown's you're safe. Very safe. Yes. On a Saturday night takeover or dynamite in the semi head to head battle. No it's. Just. I am curious to see what that'd be worshiped number is for dynamite how loyal that audiences and again you know the the first number that comes out without the DVR or the I. Think the the more telling number is going to be what is it Plus Two plus three hours forget it's plus three an a-plus seven. Yeah. Thank you plus three So it was right the first time but yeah, I think that's going to be the more telling number just considering they do have Strong competition even if it is a wwe network, shall I just think that so many pro wrestling diehards going to choose takeover that night just because even if it's not live, it's going to feel like it's like I'm not sure the July twenty second show did eight, hundred, forty, seven, thousand viewers, which is above the rolling week average. At this time and then they jumped from roughly around eight fifty, they went to a one million fifty. So gained about two, hundred, thousand viewers, and then in the following four days, they gained another fifty almost fifty thousand viewers to almost one point one million. So we can. We can compare and see if it starts off lower Saturday but after three days, does it grow more than usual because people aren't used to the routine but they're dvr automatically recorded it and yeah. So that plus three is. As or more important than the live. And I will be part of that plus three because I'll be watching takeover in watching dynamite Bromley late that night or the morning. Yeah. Yeah. People have some choices to make but it's a fun a fun choice to have to made age. Yeah. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with Richmond a weekly part of the torch daily cast lineup of shirts, search w torch, an apple podcasts, or your podcast axes subscribe every Saturday at six PM eastern I dive in with guests for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related one here about the influence of historical figures like big kettering. We got you WanNa hear about how crazy marine movies got we are on it. No topic is too big or too small. So if you want in this Colin live or listen on demand and see the entire pw torch daily schedule at pw towards daily cast. Dot Com. Let's let you mentioned earlier drew McIntyre in radio and I'm not going to do. Take a full thorough summertime preview here. But drouin randy is is is I'm interested in match quality and I'm interested in match length I'm interested mostly in. Does Randy walkout with title and if so under what circumstances and if not under what circumstances this is one of those matches where because ordinance strong had been such a central focus of the storyline. Does I mean, do you have drew just beat them with a claim or and you move on? I don't think. So. So what do you do if not that and does that involve Shawn Michaels or ric flair or Christian or edge or? Do they bring some of these legends back and turn it into kind of a Not Quite. What was on at the end of t last night with all the latter match is running out but. Is Does it turn into a bit of a circus at the end with the idea being they come back with a match where it's more one on one and they create a stipulation to assure that. My official prediction remains that you'll never see it coming because the lights went out when Randy Orton punt kick flair, and it's all a ruse and flair is gonNA come out and Mac McIntyre is going to have to play the the goal guy who thinks that he's on his side inflation's GonNa logo him and ran. He's GonNa drop with an R. K. on him and we'll find out that it was all orchestrated by Rick Flair the dirtiest player in the game I I may be reading way too much into the marketing slow maybe just that may be related to something else. The repeal of retribution or something. But that's been my guest since that angle took place allstate with it and keep in mind we have payback a week later I know there's gotta be a reason storyline wise whether it's this match or something else that they're gonNA come right back with another shell. When the lights went out originally, I thought. Well, they don't WanNa really kick ric flair. What happened with steamboat they don't WanNa take chance and I got that and so if that's what I thought, and that throws me off the scent of wait a second. He didn't really kick him and the low blow. Wear a cup or whatever. So. It is possible to fake all that and the WWe has become their booking philosophy involves. people being distracted and also swerves on promos wrestlers pretending one thing and revealing another it's just. They lean out a too much and this fits that pattern I'm not against that being the angle by the way I mean I think that's fine. If they do it just I wish they didn't do it so much I do wonder if they have to change their motto on any marketing after the effect after. After, the show if like. Jason Saad coming like do. Lots of. Some of you sod coming but most of you didn't like well, they have to kind of I mean you'll never see it coming. I mean they can't market that to you because you would have seen it coming that'd be false false advertising gazing. Well Okay but if I get one other match prediction wrong that's what we were talking about this. That stir yeah. They do have that plausible. Call. You know in the match it'd be like know who will be Tom Phillips it'd be like nobody saw that coming you didn't see it coming. You know if they emphasize that catch phrase. In the match they really can't then claim that's not what it was all about. So I would talk to your lawyer Jason. I'll see what I can do and I what I really want the The explanation for the low blow to be is that is so committed to their study had himself castrated and I want to cut an over the top old school. Rick Flair drop an elbow on the suit jacket Promo. Yelling about how he has no balls he is not going to do that. That is not flourish brand but I get the spirit of your of your you'd never see that coming. You know what we saw it I've all dangling. Working come out with a jar. Do you know what these are. And and Tom Villes we like we never saw that coming. All right. Mark for edit I don't know. All right moving. So Stroman in the fiend the other kind of well the CO made event. What is I? Don't even know what to make of this I'm genuinely not. I'm genuinely. Looking for to how they resolve what's happening even though I don't know that a light colored resolve it I want some clarity on what's going on here and part of it is bliss. I think it's been so good. Braun is sort of hilariously not good but needs to be in a better situation than he's been into be compelling. And character has its ups and downs but I just I. I'm really curious where where what they have in mind if the payoff to all this. Whatever the next step if it's a payoff or another chapter in this I, want I want I want to come out of this thinking they had. They've got a pretty good story line in minded they've risen to the occasion. What are you expecting bracing yourself for? Right, playing on the you'll never see it coming. I think a lot of people are assuming that. Alexa Bliss is going to end up aligned with Bray Wide I. Think they've actually been planting the seeds for Nicky Cross to be the one who turns she she obviously can play the demented character very well as we saw insanity. So she would fit with the fiend and she's the one who was aggressive. She got carried away and pushed Alexa Bliss to the Mat and ever she's been apologetic sense then but I think that's my guess is that she actually helps to fiend win the championship. I am going to protest that because she's so fun in her current character that I don't want that to happen, but I can't rule out. Yeah, I can't I can't rule out. She did act a certain way and she is tied of the storyline and you know what is much either I'm thinking like I'd miss the current Nikki crossed the one who applauds on the plane lands. But I I would look forward to anything she does and it might actually work really well so. I I'm still curious the. Comment about you know, I, don't care about Alexa I. Just you know I just care about getting my hands on ups or whatever the line was. You know do they own that? Is that a key in this or did they scripted to say something that a lot of us hung? Go WHOA that's a big deal, and then they worked into the storyline. But do they try to try to let it fade away or not? Have it be a central thing to me? That's a key line and it can be it can mean various things including could be unintentional red-herring from Bronco I. Don't think bronze character is smart enough to do red herrings. So you think Ron could be he'll in this Oh. Yeah. So the fiend goes baby I, mean I've heard people or or broad ends up going with the fiend. It'll be fine with that. We don't really get A. Braun could win the title because the fiend lets him win and you can't do that finish I mean I don't think. There's there's a few things you should have a hard and fast rule about wrestling and one of them is anyone intentionally losing that should be hard and fast rule with a once every twenty five year exception because storyline wise it makes sense and it's not the main event on a show. So you could do with payback i. mean you can have some sort of follow up, but you could do something where the fiend sort of. His character. So out there, you could imagine him sort of granting. Granting a loss to Bron to bring Braun in so that the fiend isn't trying to become universal champion. He's He's he to me the fiend characters who care about something more than the championship that he's about bigger things and he could. Basically Bribe Ron to fight for him I don't know I mean again that's why I say I want to see how this plays out because nothing nothing that I come up with fields entirely satisfying but I think there's an array of possibilities that I think are intriguing and if they've really thought it through I, think it has a chance to be satisfying and elevate everybody. Involved and also make what happened in the past workout. If Braun is just this cardboard dimensional one dimensional baby face who just is all? Who's all angry right now and it just goes back to whatever I I want this to be a game changer for the characters involved with you. Yes. It's I'm not in Lebron's jerome at all I don't know if he's going to. Whatever. They can can get me there but I I just think back to when they had him. At his peak going into that match with brock laser and seeing what he is now is just I I don't like this I'm bored by it. So hopefully, right and they have something great in mind and and it's going to really be a game changer for him because he because he needs it yeah Yup. Well. I'm glad we saw that and we're on exactly what's going to happen and it's pretty the one thing it's. Whatever happens you can't say it was predictable even if it's the most likely outcome because I think there's enough things out there that we just I don't think anyone anyone says absolutely positively no, it's going to happen just didn't. It just happened that they were right. So they'll never see it coming. Yes. Yes. All right. A little more rapid fire Sasha and Bailey. Each taking on Oscar I enjoyed the battle of would be more magnanimous to go I. Know Hugo deserve to have the first shot at her. They're just they're they're comment and they're playing each other and I'm enjoying it wh-. Where do you think the belts land at the end of the night I? Wish I cared I. I really do I'm just I think they're so over exposed I know they do good work and I mentioned this in one of my head lists like. Ridiculously, over exposed and yet they end up in the hit section most weeks but I just seeing Oscar work with both of them. By Association makes her feel overexposed even though she's not appearing on every television show every week I I know him in the minority in this I'm just not as into this is the Sasha and Bailey thing is most people unready for the split I've been ready for the split I guess I'll go with. Supply. Could well, okay. So she's GonNa face. Sasha second. So I will go with Oscar Beats. Sasha. And to take that title, she doesn't end up with both of them. Yeah. I I'm in we been consistently higher on session. Bailey than you and I get I get where you're coming from on it but. I think they've. I think every every chapter in the story leads to a new dynamic between the two of them and I think they've been playing it while so with. Bailey going I and she loses. But Sasha wins that changes a power dynamic. And in a way that would. Allow Sasha to get back. Bailey. For the Way Bailey treated her, but she will not show her hand that she's. Aware or gloating or taking satisfaction in that, but you'll infer that she is. Based on little clues, and if that happens, that's a new power dynamic between the two of them that can work, and then they'll be whatever they'll be the take tuttle defense at payback where then they can play off of that. So I, I think they have I think they have some fun pieces to play with here but I I guess I'm just ready for it to be resolved I am not crazy about Oscar getting both title shot but I'm willing to you know they obviously have a story in place to be else in one of those title matches but. I also just not as a non into Oscar yelling in Japanese and she's come settled down a little bit. That's another one that's going to be interesting to me is just what when, when we do get fans back and unfortunately, if you know everything will probably have run its course, buy them and I'd love to know what fans would reaction would be to Bailey to. Oscar would be cheered pretty pretty loudly, but will they be bored by Braley when she just get that go away heat I don't know. He. Is I die in Him and Die Matt tape, the real ring of honor world champion and you know how show everyone that? I. Did it by tuning into the podcast of Ottawa Tyler my personal main man, right? This is Ryan and I'm tyler and we are the host of the wildly popular vw towards VIP, show podcast of honor. Our show covers everything reminder wrestling from analysis Cher recaps in wide ranging interviews with the stars of premium on download the podcast. Each week and support the best podcast on the POW. Torch. VIP Network. So. Let's let's talk about the the rest of the show. For summertime hair quickly many Rose Sonia? I. Mean. Is it just for sure Sonya's winning or with WB surprise us and say see never sought common Hey there's a phrase and he rose the one who's going to lose and kept up maybe every finish on the show is the one nobody expects in. That's the theme. and. Then that's why we have all the rematch awake later at payback. No I think Sonia Loses Yeah Yeah. Yeah And she becomes one of those really freaky bald people. or It's a suitor maybe we'll see. What a scary story by the way with Sony, the home invasion and That that could have ended way worse. Yeah. Well, it I think. It could have ended way worse for him. She does have MMA training. And looking at the guy points if it wasn't for the knife, she could've kicked his ass. Yeah. Yeah. I mean a he looked like average height hogle. Yeah. Yeah no I can't handle them so. Right yes. Yes. But yeah, just shows I mean when you're a public figure at the level that she is and especially a woman. Because men are awful. So many of them Yeah it's. Just. Chilling how it felt like a lifetime movie network. You know production the way that was described. It, just closing scene of some. Of. Some of your opening scene of that type of movie followed by him getting out of jail because his his uncle is a district attorney and then he ends up yeah I mean you can do a whole movie out of off of this. The whole scene felt surreal reading it so. Base Joseph. Script for NBC, you did they own lifetime. I have no idea. I don't know I'm not even sure. So but yeah, I think you just wrote their movie for. Do It do it. Actually I wrote that just pretty much the plot of every movie of tight. CETERA received it. Will I'm sure but did you ever see the Will Ferrell and? Kristen Wig they did a lifetime movie. No. It actually aired on lifetime. Yeah. It was awesome I was or yeah. But it was too much like any lifetime movie. I ever saw which isn't many. But yes, I just sat there and laugh the whole time. That's awesome. All, right. So Seth rollins dominic mysterious in a street fight. Is this a selling point a substantial selling point for Sunday? They do a good job with this Jason. I think. It was for me. The look for me is seeing dom can do in the ring and they actually took away from it by making it a streetfight. Now I don't care how well Dom can sling candlestick I I wanna see what he can do in the ring. So we'll. We'll get there eventually but now I have to wait and so it's not as appealing. It is very repetitive that Ray may never be able to wrestle again due to his I time will tell like we just been we just went through this before the eye for an eye match we're back to that now. It's. It feels like it's. It's they've kind of run into the ground a little bit. It felt like it was peaking and now I'm just I don't know. I'm back to kind of. Feeling like I never, WanNa hear Seth rollins talk about the good of raw again I. I don't know why he had be the Monday night Messiah. But for his own good I you know just something different other than the good of Raleigh who in the hell whatever Even, the guy who's sitting in jail for Sony Deville incident wouldn't come up with that. have. You been impressed with Dominic. Has He with the cards he's been dealt played them. What played his hand well. So far so good. You know he's. Very. Young somebody asked me acute electoral. You know what's his upside or what's his potential? Is I get so hard to say at that age without having seen him in the ring yet it's really tough to say but. He is not a Polish crawl now but he doesn't come off as. Insincere either there's a organized believe. Yeah he seems likable but there's also that factor that existed when ray was feuding with similar. Gel. Don was showing up where I really wanted to see domino's ass kicked I couldn't help it. I didn't feel that way when Sheth was beating him. And Murphy just mercilessly like nights initiation guys really. We needed to go that far with this I'm. I'm. Happy because I think anytime, the son of our shows up, there's it's hard to not give offense of cocky and self entitlement and have the crowd turn against him and I think if they were in front of live crowds, they might have turned against him early by not being in front of live crowd had a chance to portray himself in in an earnest likable way as a standing up for his dad. Kind of knowing his place and knowing where he stands and being brave but not. Not stupidly brave brazen about his toughness. And so I don't know. I. Just I was I'm like you I was ready to. Just, think this is another one of those ill-advised angles of a son of a wrestler showing up and and he he's not so. So far so good as far as goes and it's it's a rare case where the son of the wrestler isn't like for some reason ridiculously under says I mean there's there's other examples but. Danica. Wasn't with Verne was not far. As far as just the physical stature and then David Sammartino. He was the kills. T. The gravitas of Bruno. Kids just don't have their DADS look. So Anyway Chris and Mike von Erich Mike Graham and I, mean, there's just so many examples guys they tried to push because they were the promoter somebody. They just didn't quite look the partner worked out better for some than others but. Had he been smaller than? Ray Who? Well. Yeah. That would've been tough. About Public Cruise MVP. A. Surprise. In this pandemic era I've I've enjoyed his work in Apollo crews i. think done good work. I don't know if he's done good enough work I think that he should be any higher on the car then he has now I've I've I've liked seeing him get this opportunity and I think he's been solid. And I think you should retain the title your thoughts on this. I don't think he's going to I. Think they started it up on Monday by going overboard and having Lashley and Benjamin banned from ringside, and then you know get teasing us with Cedric Alexander being the odd man out. They seem to throw that together at the last minute, and so I think said Rick's going to be the one that costs cruise to championship. I, it's their fault I don't WanNa see MVP wrestle because they basically told me he was a scrub and he was on his last leg. I don't know why they felt the need to do that. But they they just haven't been able to change my perception. And he always you know he's always playing second fiddle to Lashley I wanna hear him talk I I think he's a really good character but I. Think they condition me to be ready for me. Okay. No more MVP and the Rin and I was fine with that. But but he is a hell of a mouthpiece. And then finally do profits Andrade and Angel Garza any thoughts on this? Either they hate Andrade in Gaza. Or they're winning just because. They've. They lose constantly they this is a terrible store. This is one of the worst Tori lines. WWE's done in a long time, which is really saying something when you just look back on it. They they have Zelina Vaga lose a amash to Bianca Bel air the week before the poisoning reveal. So, there's a revenge Montana's Ford. Beats Andrade this week he gets his revenge like what so why is this what? What's what are we doing this match for? Because, there's taking titles in these are major characters on raw, and it's a raw heavy show But yeah, I'm I'm fine with him I mean this could be a good match. So that has echo for Ya. But? Yeah. It feels like against some of this I. Just I'm on I'm a little on edge thinking a lot of this just a set up for payback or rematch is on TV so I don't know. We'll see I don't have a ton to say about this other. Then it just continues to be an ongoing issue I think he made some good points. Some good points that. If dishes. The biggest show this summer. What is pay back then? The follow up to the big issue on the sequel. To the big. I guess, do we have a payback catch phrase yet? I don't think. It should be called drew drew's revenge. You will see it coming. No but they should put a catchphrase out ahead of time. That gives away what happens at summertime since they do boneheaded stuff like. Beep. Probably will. All right. Let's see here. Oh, we got numbers in four. T. I already forgot what my prediction was because we spend time on dynamite. Did we predict what? What do I mean? I think I said it if it was. Less than two, hundred, thousand, they should be disappointed more. Well compare I'm sorry less than two hundred, thousand more than they did last week and they they top that but not by a ton so I don't know what they were expecting. It's. Out in range it's there. Yeah. It was eight, hundred, fifty, three, thousand, I think it's the third highest viewership they've ever had. Since dynamite started. But interestingly below because back on September, Eighteenth and September twenty fifth last year before dynamite started, they didn't one point one, seven, nine, million in one point, zero, zero, six, million, and then the first weekend ahead eight, hundred, ninety, one, thousand. Only once since then have they done more than this week's number, so he can spend it a couple of different ways, but they were in a better spot last September than after having. Know. Ten Eleven, eleven months basically to win people over unopposed. They've actually lost viewers I mean that's another way to look at it. While we were on a better place last. September well. There is absolutely there is that I'm just saying if we're going to put a positive spin and say they gained two hundred, thirty, thousand viewers. And did you know that that probably would have been watching dynamite otherwise by the way the? The ten week rolling average for them is seven hundred. Ten thousand. So there are a hundred, forty thousand above the ten week average. So I don't know how you WanNa look at it as a winner Alaska's last week was Kinda down number and they're only one hundred thousand higher than the number. They did two weeks ago when they're only one, hundred, hundred, thirty, thousand. One hundred forty thousand above the ten week average but. It's interesting because the combined the viewership for the two shows shows. Is One point Four to one point, six, million roughly and. They barely got over half of that. You know normally they're on the they draw lesson dynamite. One data goes away. It's not like five or six, hundred, thousand people who out of the seven or eight, hundred, thousand watched dynamite live flipped over. So I don't know. I'm not. I'm not quite sure what to make. Of aberation circumstances like this because you have the Democratic convention, you have all the sports play offs. And then you had a show that didn't really present itself as all that special and had they done that I think could have done more and I don't know if they care that much. You know it's more long ball to them than trying to get a little victory or. I think they have too much pride. Even look like they're trying that hard to get a little victory because then it looks like Oh look they came up short or if they act like well, we just don't care then it doesn't matter what the number is because while we were steady. Along as they said in the first after the first victory. Back, the first week of October it's like Oh you know this is a long game congratulations. I serve just have been fantasizing last September, who was such a good time we fantasy season I could go to draft Persian. The Vikings, we probably had some grand delusion that when the Super Bowl and wins were having a good season like, oh, this'll be the year they beat the Yankees will be great ric flair. So it is ball's how a jar. Although the Vikings, are talking about getting some fans at US Bank stadium for the over. Good for them, I won't be wonderful. Yeah Yeah. It'll be all packer fans, Klay, the Patterson, the opener, Oh God. That's funny. Well now, I'm definitely not go and I don't trust them. Now, that I would go anyway. But yeah. All. Right. So we're going to wrap up our free portion here and tackle sameday questions and other topics in the exclusive. After show if you're not a PD, torch VIP member or dot net member, now's a good reason to go VIP to hear. The rest of our conversation will do roughly another half hour of content. We're GONNA talk about retribution, which we haven't done yet also rene young impact ratings and the complete lack of structure and rules on that triple brand battle royal last Friday on smackdown. and. We'll talk a little little NFL season coming up too. 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WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin: Stellar Dynamite, Raw's redundancy of match-ups, Impact & Slammiversary incl. ratings on AXS

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:13:51 hr | 4 months ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin: Stellar Dynamite, Raw's redundancy of match-ups, Impact & Slammiversary incl. ratings on AXS

"In Two thousand twelve annex t transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today on the torch VIP podcast annexed eight years back. We'll be taking a weekly. Look at this page in and exceeds early history. Join Kelly Wells and me. Tom, style from ut talks. Every. As we go eight years back to the day to track annex rising talents, and why did or didn't work out exclusively for pw torch, VIP members. Now? PW, torch and spreaker bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking current events in pro wrestling. Todd is emanating as usual this week from the home of the Washington football team because I feel. Oh, dear another. Idea, Dana Snyder, but who cares sports are back. Baseball's back. Basketball's coming hockey's coming. It's it's. It's a fine time in the world. Do you think sports back is going to affect wrestling ratings, but before for worse. Yes, yeah, yes. Yeah I mean. That's GONNA. Be Really interesting. How Low Ron smackdown especially go! Although I next Awa to follow a fallen. But they have fluctuated too so. Yeah, I'm also curious about how they do in the ratings because. It seems like such a wildcard. I could see I could see some of these sports during worse than they were doing before. I could see some of these sports doing about the same I, see some of these sports during a lot better, and if they do a lot better particularly, the NBA I think it will combat the idea that well you can't. You just can't do anything with you. Know without fans. You know sort of an insurmountable challenge so. That's going to be a an interesting little. You know you mean that. Two people saying that about wrestling or you're saying Yeah Yeah Yeah, yeah? I mean obviously there are different things, but if you can alter your approach, I mean you are simulates sports if you alter to your approach to compensate for it. If other sports are going up a lot under the current circumstances than that. I think is a a signal that it's not just you know not just unavoidable. Do you think if one of the sports what what sport is most likely to go to a cinematic pre-tape formula ratings. Scott. It's gotta be the NHL. They were the ones who are going up right. That's true. Yes. I think they should bring the glowing puck back. That technology was before high. DEF Television, and you know the technology's there to make it work better. Off You know what this reminds me of the revival of the xfl. They! Just you know if we just executed better. Yes. I had a friend in college who grew up in Long Island but didn't like the NHL which which was weird because he would have been a kid when islanders winning cups. And and was like what to watch because I never know where the puck is and I told him I said the Puck is where all the players are skating towards. The focus on the usually, the cameras focus in wherever the players are focused like you don't need to see the Puck if you watch hockey to know in general within a couple of feet of where the puck is. Something that said by people that don't watch hockey or only very very rarely watch hockey, because after you've watched about like three or four games. You know like yeah. And I don't even know if it's without long, but like you know like. After you, watch it for a very short period of time, it's very easy to I. Don't know if I were the puck. Is Yeah Yup. Okay let's. Let's let's dive into it. I'll look. Let's be football. The football football that throws me off. Yes Let's start with thoughts on slam versus the night of. It was kind of I kind of a homecoming. Homecoming for? Returned to Tennessee. A. Secret Not really. Yeah I mean I thought I liked the show. You know it's one of their big shows of the year. I thought the wrestling wasn't that good? Although definitely had its highlights because he doesn't have the same roster that a lot of these companies do, but I thought they did a good job of getting attention to their company. When they need all the attention they can get and they reloaded the roster when I think they've been pretty thin recently. I felt like they're able to generate more attention than they've had any pointed in in quite a while and. Watching the television on Tuesday afterwards. I thought it you know. It continued that direction where yes, a lot of the town that they've been. Using did they brought in were framed as as lose. But. They just have a much higher level of talent to work with now and so you. Fused all these different characters into. into the pay per view and into the television I, thought impact felt like a show that had more going on than in a while. So I thought it was an encouraging. I've motion. Do, you want to kind of run down the entire pay per view or just some thoughts and some of the highlights. Yes the opening. The opening match of the show was the motor city machineguns returning as the first price of the night, and they beat the rascals in the opener I was a little surprised by the Finnish given. The rascals have been a featured act an impact but You know they put the titles on the machine guns on Tuesday so clearly they have big plans for them, and so if you're doing that, obviously, you're going to have the The guns beat the the rascals in this much the match that was pretty good. definitely not greater anything I seem to like it less than most people did, but this is pretty good. after that was Moose. And Tommy Dreamer for the TNA title, and it was about what you'd expect not very good, but they didn't overstay their welcome. Moose trying to push Tommy. Dreamers facing thumb tacks was a a scary visual. And? That was the women's Gauntlet match. This was a disappointment to me. Not very good at all I figured they'd have more ideas for the match, but there really weren't any notable spots. You know the only thing that really stood out in terms of them trying to do. Something was Johnny Bravo coming out address just high, of Al Korean and Rosemary and I didn't think those work does comedy, and just was more destructive. Another come out and they sorta do stuff, and then the match would continue. Really. It didn't really build anything or have any highlights. Finish was very beating tie. Acharya, so Kylie's your next title Challenger. And that's direction. After that heath slater came out. He was the second surprise on the show, and he's just heath now. He wanted to be in the main event, but he didn't get to be put in there, and then he was told to leave by Scott d'amore. What a WHAT IMMUNE GUY! That guy is when he was hanging backstage with Ryan. They're doing. He's still he's no threat. Anybody come on You know so. It looks like keep vinyl. He's going to be a team and did a little thing on Tuesday where he snuck in the back door so. I guess are the as he's. Sort of weasling way in incognito to try to get on the show whereas everybody else was was welcome. Those Chris Bain Willie Mack Chris. Bay One to to win the one one, the the extroversion, title and This was good. You know not a not a great match, either but as good wrestling for sure, and if I was in north, and Cam can semi Callahan and the North won to retain the titles, and they're seizing dissension between shamrock and Callahan, but it was hard to figure out exactly what they were going forward, because shamrocks just seemed off, he was moving really slowly. He looked really tired. He tumbled and claps to the floor and this mixed misplanned show. That just looked awful. I mean really it just didn't look like shamrock should've been there at all. He just he. Off and sort of out of sorts, and brought down the match, and the north were talking themselves up after the match, the machine guns came out and they. Announced that they'd be wrestling. North for the titles on Tuesday, so does a little angle, too ought to follow through television show, which at one point was sort of like a silly thing because the television withdraw so many more viewers than the pay per views, but at this point with with impact it. You know maybe a pretty comparable audience How did the? Show to me was deanna process beating join grace to win the women's title. I thought this was an excellent match. I talked last week about how this was framed a big match on television and how I'm sure that they'd be given every chance to come through and I thought they really did I. Mean really good technical match. A of grappling I thought they. They both upgrade, probably definitely one of my favorite US women's matches matches of the year, and I thought it really got off to a good start an impact. She's been coming off well as a personality and she came through in the ring. Here swell so credit to her after what was a unfortunately for a very underwhelming run in? And the other to the main event, which was surprised number three came out on the show, which was rich, Swann returned from injury to join the match, and then spies number four was Eric Young, who came back because he'll also joined the match as a five way, and they did a deal where swan eliminated young, and then young injured Swann afterwards so could. That's a program that's coming up between those two and it came out at the ads as Austin. Austin and at Edwards got the win, and and the title, and then afterwards Mab Fulton one after Eddie Edwards and lead despise them five, which was the good brothers making their live appearance, making the Safe Eddie Edwards, and they shared a beer with Eddie, Edwards, to close the show and they anderson. Gallup's is a big the on the presentation I thought so it felt like they may be more focused on some of these other acts, and that is they're going. Going off the air, we got the final surprise which was three lines down the the the center of the screen, and then they EC three who threw a glass against the wall and the this was the beginning of new character free three, which we saw an impact Tuesday and I was dubious of moving away from the all these three character because I thought he was so good at that character, but and I've seen so many times with Raslan thing. Thing that they'll try to like tinker with the characterization of the something. That just doesn't work very well, but I thought the new character was compelling I mean they showed all these kind of apocalyptic videos and he talks about controlling your narrative. It was it was like this is an interesting direction so we'll see what he can He can do with that, so that was though slam bursary if they never if be never follows up on the. The mysterious character that was spying on people that the timelines SORTA works out that it could see three. There you go! Yeah, certainly this character. Thing to do on impact, all those guys on smackdown vignettes me. One day I'll have. John You? Push Dolf Ziegler who was who are who is being shown on this videos on our. Remember it. It felt like it was a pretty big range. And I didn't feel like it was focused on just one act that was going to be the one he feuded with. I don't have a total recall I. Just know in general. It felt like he was kind of variety. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah I looked I like the Vignette at the beginning I think it was at the beginning of impact this week. the pay per view on the impact running a little bit in terms vignettes, and when but I thought that he came across the somebody with a chip on his shoulder. Also in terms of like how into the character he was, and he's. It looks like he sort of. I mean when when c three. That character is running around chasing the twenty four seven title. I just don't know if there's any coming back from that unless you do a hard shift in how you present yourself. So while these character and impact is really good I i. like to read I'm I'm curious to see where it goes? Yeah I mean there's there's something we for the idea that you know you. It's hard to come back to sort of being arrogant guy that's been handed everything in life and us. You know everything goes perfectly for him when he's been, you know sort of not only just chasing on the twenty four seven title, but like his Gimmick appear to be that he was just defeated by life and it gives. Totally. You know he he. He didn't even care about the twenty four seven title. He was just sort of following because he had nothing else to do. which you know, yeah, the idea that that would sort of. He'd mentally break and turn into something more Going to say like sort of darker and cities, but it wasn't clear given the impact, the attack Moose whether he's going to baby-faced, he'll for something more. More aggressive, nothing else. Yeah, Yep, and then I mean in today's landscape. Eric, young shows up and they last we saw him. He was jogging Yondo to TV and you know really not used. It's an understatement, not used anywhere close to where he had been used prior once he got to the main roster, even even impact, or even compared to. How is Houston exte-? is a wrestling fans, impact fans inasmuch as it counts in the totality of things willing to forgive and and it soon. Okay, this guy was not. Do People think Oh, Vince mandate like if you didn't see anything he underutilized. I'm willing to give Eric younger fresh look and not just be thinking why a job or in impact main events pulling everyone else down. Down in the process like. Do you think the fans in two thousand twenty kind of recalibrate and go? Hey, if this guy's entertaining and good I'm willing to largely discount the idea that I've seen him treated as jobber not that far back on national TV. Then some of it depends on the context and the promotion on the. Impact, why don't think it's as go deal is I don't think anybody really views. Impact is something. Important, you know just sort of like this promotion. That's you know obviously shelves former. South, and if you really like wrestling, they'll give you. Some wrestling does generally pretty good, but I don't think I. Don't think anybody is thinking of impact is sort of the pinnacle of of pro wrestling. You know anybody whereas like if you're a w or new Japan where you're trying to frame for people, the idea that the stakes are high here. This is a a keep. This is a big promotion this. Is An promotion are title means law. This is you know this is something for more than just hardest hardcore wrestling fans. That's what I think. You get into more trouble if you're. US Much to be outcast, because at the point that you try to bring in more fans, the you know, the more casual and you got the more likely they are to say you know like. Why is this guy who? is in very good based on his presentation, being presented to something being something. That's a big deal. That's why I think that's more of a of a concern and the impact, just because of where they stand in the world wrestling in two thousand and twenty eight I don't think that's as much of a concern, some the thing with like the idea of putting the the the world title. Title on Test Blanchard I think if you you know if if if Awa decided to have one of the women wrestler's wrestling for the World Title I. Don't think that'd be very good for the promotion, but with impact. You know at the level that they are. I thought it was an effective way to get the most. You could advertise a Blanchard who is one of their most tau. Characters I thought it was a good idea so I think the context matters a lot. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with Richmond a weekly part of the Torch Daily Castle Book Shirts Search Torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast dances subscribe every Saturday at six PM eastern I dive in with guest for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related want to hear about the influence of historical figures like big kettering. We gotcha want to hear about how the marine movies got. We are on it. No topic is too big or too small, so if you want to dive in with call in live or listen on demand and see the entire POW towards daily schedule at POW towards, daily CAST DOT com. frigging pause and set the table here. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast for Thursday July twenty, third, two thousand and twenty. This is our Thursday flagship petitioned. The other voice. You hear is Todd Martin every week. I record a VIP exclusive show called the fix with Todd Martin where we cover current events run down the latest pro wrestling. TV shows talk. Talk some Emma may also answer mailbag questions and on a regular basis also get. Todd Martens reviews wrestling books books that he reads in fact this week on the fix, he'll be reviewing. The Horn swaddled and Michael being books. Those are separate, although seeing a book written by those two Cobra and book by those two, comparing their lives would be quite interesting. And also every the mailbag, which is just. Fantastic fantastic audio you're missing up. You're not a VIP member. As you will continue to notice as you continue to listen to fly flagship this week. The the way to hear todd every single week. In format like this along with book reviews in the mail bag is to become a VIP. Member and we invite you to do so you can support a small business. During these times. 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We give you free access to all the free shows that we do along with a ton of EP exclusive shows that you just have to kind of sample the to find out what you're missing out on, so many niche shows on very specific themes along with broad topic shows from some really trusted experienced voices and professional wrestling so I'm check that out, and plus we have thirty plus years of Archives of the torch weekly newsletter hundreds of Retro Radio shows from the nineties. Also our entire backlog of podcast, dating back to two thousand five and our new towards newsletter every week with exclusive content Columnists who only appear the torch newsletter exclusive writing that I do only for newsletter subscribers and VIP members. That's available in all texting PEDIA FORMATS Access to our website, and yes, all the VIP podcasts are available on popular podcast APPs on iphone and android. So you can subscribe at the feed hit. Refresh on your phone. Just do our free shows. We have a tutorial to walk you through our RSS Feeds. You can subscribe to either the entire feed, or break it down by theme and show, so you can customize it on your phone APP. But anyway with all that said. Let's get back to more with todd. Martin got a lot to cover going to talk about the new Japan show coming up this weekend and the latest with evil and also reviews a smackdown and raw. Awa Dynamite which I know. Todd has lots say about. It was one of his favorite episodes of dynamite. Talk about the developments in annex. T and more so all. That's coming up. Let's get back to the conversation now. What we're talking about impact I just had a quick email to my ratings source and asked if he's got any impact numbers because typically. His system where he works doesn't track access, but he actually did pull numbers so I just opened the chart while you're talking I was curious in particular if they got a bump this week. On the chart is ranked. For the thirty weeks of the year so far. In order of most viewers. I'd rather have an order, but I'll take when I get here. Best ranked. Show of the year was February twenty fifth with one hundred eighty six thousand viewers. And then February eleventh, they did one hundred, seventy, four, and then Tuesday this week they did one hundred sixty three, so as a third best viewed show of the year according to Nielsen numbers. I'm looking on the chart for where last week ranked. Other son, fourteen seven four right by each other one, hundred, fifty, six last week, and hundred thirty five the week before. So, yeah, I mean. It got a bump in in viewership, but Oh Weird. Now it isn't in. Order because actually did more than two hundred thousand back on I got asked him to send me a date or the first two weeks a year. They actually the two hundred and two, hundred, seven, thousand, those few of the year. So Anyway Yeah Little Perspective! It would make sense that they would rebound for for this week's show, but that it wouldn't be higher than the preprinted pandemic numbers, because none of the wrestling shows been able to be. Pretty, pandemic numbers. Yeah, that's actually point so compared i. mean when you think about that if if we take the numbers at face value. Just, okay, that's those are probably pretty accurate readings. If they're doing close. Two thousand viewers annexed on USA with all the cross promotion from wwe. Did six hundred fifteen thousand people's last night. So you know it's a little more than tripled viewership, but I don't think that's all that bad. Honestly I I was thinking it might even be lower than that at this point on access. Yeah that's that's higher than I would have. Thought that it would It would be yeah, who? Is Number because they don't doesn't subscribe to them, so they get. Who's getting these numbers? My my sources said I just discovered access now getting measured in my system. And it's a whole chart of all the demographic breakdown. So however I don't know. I'm not sure what system is tracking, but that's I've got. You know demographic. Demographics and Ratings and everything for them. Maybe maybe with the with. What's the impact parent company and the Canadian anthem yeah. With anthem. ANTHEM PURCHASING ACCESS? Maybe they decided in recent months to subscribe the acts the US because I was always mark. Cuban's thing. You know back in the day. It was just didn't think there's value in subscribing to them. Other other channels that were at that level did subscribe to them, so promises just wants Mark Cuban. WISCON- decided to subscribe. Yeah, let me just ask him Trekker I thought. They didn't subscribe. Okay. I'll see if I get any any. Follow up live on the show here. So yeah. That's interesting in perspective. Where they are relative to it obviously next eight, oh. You have the disadvantage of going ahead and each show would do better. Numbers if they weren't going head to head to some degree, we don't know what but you know. I predict within a month it back to be higher than RAW, but impact won't grow. Yeah I mean a lot of these you know a lot of these places are sort of built in the numbers that they had at one point, and they sort of declined from whatever level that was because there's so much product out there that it's very difficult to convince a lot of people to start watching the new show that was really sort of the feather in the cap of Aws in that environment, being able to being able to get the the the traction that they did on because a lot of people tried, and and they were the breakthrough in a way. Not really anybody else was. The two lowest numbers by the way hundred, twenty, two thousand on. March I got a squirrel here. March thirty first. Yeah, and then one hundred thirty, six thousand on June twenty third, so that they go up and down, but almost all the numbers are between one, hundred, fifty, one, hundred eighty. I mean with rare exception, so yeah like you say had kind of built in audience there with them, and as part of the routine, but yeah getting viewers. That's what I was thinking is the buds this week? How much does Internet Buzz? Lead to people going to seek out. Now that. E C three in Edison and Gals, whatever following the showed a path and cure accuracy where he's later. There's I mean. As much there's so many different options. For you know, let's say you're you're a wrestling fan? The likes wrestling than you don't watch Ron smackdown. Even if you're in that category, you know you've got aws. Show Awa Dark WanNa watch that there's impact our way still has their weekly television show. New Japan world is producing new content, so there's a whole bunch of you know pretty easy to get. an xt pretty easy to get options so. You're just what I added up. There I mean that's you know two hours teach goers a w. how long dark an hour and half! Maybe even sure. Yeah, You know you've got A New Japan. Let's say an average I. mean now they've got their their weekly show chill, but let's say you got an average. You know over the course of a month about an hour and a half a week. you know, and then impact has a real. Impact as two hours. Our ROA is an hour. That's you know a good nine hours or so of choices week average of. Arresting not including lawn smack down, so you know that's that's a lot for Ara. Finally went to consider Yeah Yep. He's later any upside on him. We talked about air, young being reframed, but he was headliner impact wrestling before I think they have a carryover audience from that era, probably still watching them just sort of a loyal loyal base of court viewers is he's slater? Somebody that you can do what you're doing with. C. Three he's. Playing a remarkably different character right now i. don't think he's shown his hand fully where he's going. He's slater Yes, he seems like some. Look what he's been doing. He's someone that very much puts just described where I I, would not bring him in. If I were a w If I were impact, I would I would be interested in how just because I think he's talented. I mean I could have done more, but he somebody. That's very much to find out. I think much more so than EC three because they see three just wasn't on the television that much, whereas he slater, they you know. They made it pretty clear that he was sort of a guy at a certain level so. I think you can in an impact. He brings a familiarity. People know who he is and I think he's you know you can produce entertaining television but I think it's hard to get. People invested in the idea that he's something special. Because of the way he's been used so I think impact is really an ideal spot for. For somebody like that. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell host of the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media, members plus the pro wrestling boom, hot gas features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry subscribe an it stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary APPS, or visit us directly at POW BOOM DOT com once again. That's PW BREWED DOT COM. Anything else from. Impact of paper TV show. Okay, so let's let's talk about what happened with newsman. Nothing happened in Japan, but because I couldn't find anything either I was wondering. Is. Is Send Goku Lord in Nagoya, which is not exactly the strongest new Japan card you're ever going to see thought made event is evil against talk. And of late they've been trying to establish evil as a heel more than trying to have the most entertaining match as possible so I. If they're GonNa do that again this time whether there's going to be a lot of cheating and interference in it's going to be storyline, or they're going to try to have a kick ass match which. Can do if they want to and I hope they do the ladder. Because we've done a number of these batches now it's been more about just to stop snoring. Eagles, jerk and I'd like to see Yvonne. Takahashi have a really exciting match. The second question is how they book rumble. Does he just lose in a way? That builds up evil for future matches with Sinatra and Shingo and Naito or do they tease him winning in a way that makes fans thank I, WanNa see him when the title at some point in the future, and in that way I think there could be some real clues about her. Own was future in the way. This matches laid out. Out whether it's presented in a way. That suggests at some point down the line. They're thinking about who is a guy that can be a single as heavyweight star or whether they're thinking about him. Some of the very popular junior heavyweight that can be used in this you know this situation with a diminished talent roster and a needs to get evil over civilian so very much interested in the layout in that sense also. Also, on the cards Shingo Defense never title against US Bravo I certainly expect shingle to retain. It should be a good match, but you know there's the issue getting a lot of drama in what seems like a foregone conclusion in opponent that isn't really that over and then academies Utera, which is a similar deal I mean Okada will, of course when and I tend to think they're not gonna even try to add that much. Much drama because Okada's. It's such a higher level that I I think. Don't bother with a bunch of like try to do. A bunch of near falls, and do the you know the aws special where you know, it's all about utera and you try to get over how close you zero came the beating Okada I. Think just you know Okada. Run over I think the most likely outcome there and the right thing to do. All Right? Let's jump back to smackdown and I dare say get it out of the way before we run out of steam. Wait I've got I've got for days. Good good I'm like I'm like. I'm like an eighteenth century steam engine. You had a half a power nap before the show to. The third one. Okay, so we had. The what they do at the beginning to? Oh, that's right. They just kind of the montage from the pay per view. That's why I was confused. So then they open the big. Honor! They did a little bit more. They had like the opening where a bunch of people talked about their segments on the shelves. So this was this was a different. Than they usually do and I thought it was a good idea. The fiction montage ECOWAS yet was although I mean the poll fixture montage always was built around a lot of music with you know talking here there. Whereas is more straightforward series of people talking their matches later on the show Again I think it was a good idea to highlight stuff coming up the problem was that they still through in so much of that goofy comedy tone with Ms and Morrison and begin others that to me like the effectiveness of that sort of silent would be to make. Make viewers think there's a bunch of important stuff on the show. I should stay tuned for it, but the tone was so You know so usual database goofiness completely undermined What should have been the whole point of airing in the first? So so what you're saying is. It's a bird. It's a plane. My fist is his lowest lane. Isn't your idea of building up? The match. I'd forgotten that. Yeah, that's Jesus. That's awful. What this remind what this reminded somebody on twitter, which therefore triggered. It definitely reminded me of it. Because I grew them but I didn't think of it at the time. Even more than pulp fiction montage. Saturday's made bets. At the top, they would have the wrestlers. Talking little sound bites. In collection of soundbites leading up to the opening the match, that seemed like a throwback to that. Some more absolutely. Now that music in my head. Obsession that's what is that what the name of the song was! To invent the what of Your mind sessions I don't remember that. Music! FOR WHATEVER REASON THE MUSIC! Mind is a summer slam the. Bomb. Bumper Oh. Yeah, that's right. Yeah? They used to summaries on on prime time wrestling. Some was definitely more powerful Dan. got. All right so they opened versus Zarro. Star win here and he thoughts on that. Stipulation at stake as a reminder. Yeah. I'm not really a fan of any segment that's designed to set up tables patch, which is what the idea was here, but I thought says Ireland's Menachem. They did their best to make. It feel like something that you'd want to see. So says ro in particular does feel motivated right now, and that's part of I. Don't always remember this number of weeks back I. Cut a Promo on on Bailey and Sasha because they thought they really undermine the segment. Where says ro was trying to get that over and I thought that was an early clue. That Zara was feeling very motivated, but it Kinda got You know Kinda got ignored because Bailey and Sasha really really undermined what he was doing, but he's. He's been doing a lot recently to suggest try and. he's trying to do the best. You can and to get noticed He's very talented, so you know it's sort of. It's very frustrating. Career sorrow, because you know you feel like you take that guy in that talent, and you know you booked better i. feel like he could have had a great great career I, don't. I mean I could see him having like a hall of fame level like Real Hall of fame level. And Unfortunately you know. He was. One of the many victims of Of An era of bad very bad booking. Yeah I. Agree I. It was weird I was thinking about that also because I felt he was motivated, and I was just thinking about like the way he portrayed himself at one of the NFC takeover specials when they did an outdoor preshow, and it was just like man, you know he showing aside of himself that that could be a top polythene got and I. Don't know if he just laughed and smiled too much behind the scenes and Goofy, and Vince looked at him and my top guy. Look at him. He's just a goofball. Dump blend the victim. Well I'm not justifying. It was the way it was the way she was dressed, she she she bought it upon herself. The guy that the guy that you know the talented as he was i. just do not accept the idea that like if he just carried himself differently back behind the because it's not even he's not like a guy that has reputation for being a jerk or anything like where he's causing trouble like the idea that like well. He's you know he's adding too much of goofiness to Swiss. Like now I I. I don't WanNa. Even countenance that that's that's. For not recognized talent, and he got over a bunch of different points like you know where people were ready to roll with them. Despite the fact, that wasn't even getting pushed at the time so. You know he's. You know he's. Not on him well now throwing me out of the bus, I just want to make clear I'm not blaming. I'm just saying that might be what Vincent man uses to trigger his decision making. A not in agreement of I, do not blame the victim. I just want to be very clear. Well, you you, you do sometimes like or more accepting of people not getting pushed. Because you know you hear. They're sort of Bad behind the scenes whereas my audis I don't about behind the scenes I just care about who's talented which granted I recognize that there. You know that's in the real world. That can be a limitation because. Human beings are human beings, and if you're if you're working backstage, somebody's just a pain in the ass to deal with all the time. It probably doesn't. Diminish your interest in in in your best. Get them over, but you know I'm. I'm I'm thinking of higher goals. Yes, no, no I! Get that, too. And I think there's an in presenting yourself in a way that doesn't seem to. That shows a side of yourself. That makes it hard for Vince McMahon. Who just on a whim can sort of make a decision to push? Not Push someone based on. Just what he what? He sees off camera that doesn't mean your heart to work with, or you're not really motivated. It just means that's a and Vince. McMahon going all right. That's a side of him. We don't WanNA present a TV, but what we can present on. TV is big time money and sometimes I just think Vince, doesn't he can't get past somebody just not like I think drew McIntyre right now. Is Super Super? Self aware of carrying himself. Like a champion to impress McMahon on and off camera, and I think it would behoove wrestlers who want to impressment man who knows how much longer that will be thing. But to take that into account. Your goal is to make the most money to push the reality is you're dealing with Vincent Man, and his his quirks about how we make decisions, and if you carry yourself professionally, show up a little early. You don't seem like a big mark, but you also look like you take this seriously, and you have a passion for it whatever you know all all the all the weird things that people who are around Vince will tell you to do and not do. It can help your career. It's sad. It shouldn't affect it as much as it does, but I think people who who are take that into account have succeeded more than those who. Of equal talent level I mean. That may be true. Moving. Here. One of the really cool parts of being a VP members getting to relive history through the pages of the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues. We have progressing wrestling torch newsletter dating back to the late nineteen eighties. We put a new back issue up from twenty years ago that week, and so when you go VIP, you instantly have access to over fifteen hundred back issues. Issues and a new PDF along with an all text version. It's easier for you to read that on your phone goes up every weekend and the latest issues include a cover story from the June tenth. Two thousand issue on Goldberg returned to WCW and whether he's a solution to what was ailing WCW at the time. Also, my call titled Vince Russo is from Outer Space. And Bruce, Mitchell's call him still timely today, unfortunately of racist gimmicks and poverty pimps was the title. That's issue number six. Oh, six the week before that issue number six, zero five from June third features, a cover story talks about how there could be a shakeup in the wrestling industry with WCW for sale and E C W, having an uncertain future and also Bruce Mitchell column spoofing Vince Russo titled How I became World Champion. If. 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Fan after a hotel party and WCW Slam Berry Coverage, and the week before that our coverage from the May six issue number six, zero, one of David Arquette, winning the WCW title. My, and notes aditorial examining Vince. Russo's controversial decision and flippant comments about title belts, our coverage of WWe backlash, two thousand and more I could keep going on, but that gives you an idea of what you're missing out on by not being BP member mentioned settling in on the weekend and kicking back and reading wrestling history, not through the lens of Wwe, filtering it to their benefit, not three people looking back on it through today's lands, but what was said at the time the week it happened by some of the voices that you are familiar with. On the way Keller Processing, podcast and Torch daily casts so go back. And relive professional wrestling through the the torch covered it in real time with contemporaneous coverage of progress, biggest events, biggest news stories biggest personalities I think you'll have a blast. It alone is worth the membership price for so many of our members checkout details on everything else that comes with the VIP membership including daily podcast VP exclusive and shows like this with the ads and plugs removed. GO TO POW TORCH DOT COM SLASH KGO VIP for full details. That's P W torch, DOT, com slash go! VIP prices are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month on average. If you subscribe for a year or check us out for a month for nine dollars and ninety nine cents. At the few small things some. Moment of Bliss Alexa Nikki. Then like you're shown on saying moment of bliss. Don't like my what. Town of you sounded. You said moment of like moment of bliss the moment. We had moment of bliss I feel like whenever anyone says. Moment of blessed should be selling on lines of moment. Bless no, really the reason. I sounded excited because in my report here I'm trying to skip past like just quick little backstage, things or announcer segments, and I got a little lost and I was excited when I again. Koch so inconsequential on the show, so to speak I mean it was your typical of you know unless you're very ineffective over the scripted not at all believable way too cute, talking segment and look I mean this. This week's moment of bliss was far from the worst moment of bliss, but moment of bliss are consistently some of the worst segments on the show every week. The best part though is when Sasha was mean to the camera Guy Nikki just said. Don't you talk to him like that? You know the funny thing, too. Is that if you had like the same concept was just Alexa Nikki coming out there sort of an oddball grouping and sort of playing off each other and sort of like a funny way, and you just let them sort of doing an extemporaneous man I think they might be able to to pull it off I'm not sure because it is kind of outside their own of pro wrestling, because they aren't really geared towards building up matches so much, but like both of them are very good at their characters in a way that I think they might be able to do something with it, but you know like the the. The the screen just everything, and it's not just the fact that they're scripted all. It certainly doesn't help, but what they're scripted to do. Which is like? Have this like you know? Tepid Cute Banter that doesn't feel organic in any way doesn't feel like actual people talking and is more more designed to just sort of like highlight, the cuteness and the relevance of our brand of comedy than to accomplish any goal. Yes! Okay So then nicky crossing asking. It's Balian banks any thoughts on the actual match. Tag Match with does the same people wrestling over and over and over again. Though that is factually true. So Ms Morrison have little given Morrison, I guess a bit of a pep talk for his match with Braun. And then and then Bron Morrison go back to the fun house in a minute. Any, thoughts on on this two minute. Just, destruction of Morrison based I think it was last week you talked about. The use of Morrison. Yes, so the the the moment of bliss I was objecting to unlike the abstract because those things like always pretty bad in terms of what they're doing the Bron-. Morrison segment was just a really it was. It was a very bad segment. Relative to most segments that they do like I thought that the lines that they gave Braun were so bad. I thought bronze delivery was Bradford it was almost unintelligible, phony screaming I didn't buy. That guy was worked up in the slightest. I thought he was just awful in his presentation, and I thought Morrison acting so afraid of him just did a hell of a lot more hurt Morrison than to help brought, and I thought this was a segment that everybody in the segment came out of it worse than they wanna on. He speed talked and I I don't know if that was by design talk fast. That'll show that. You're really worked up. But you couldn't even understand what you're saying just like that to me. That's where we stop the taping in go. Let's try that again. Because, yeah, yeah, absolutely one thousand one they should have just I mean granted. They shouldn't have given him that material in the first place, but there's gotta be a way to deliver that material in the way. He did I thought he was just awful. Yeah Yeah. So there was the I guess we're kind of in between the initial Ms Morrison pep talk in match itself. In some of the stuff that Brian, they had the firefly funhouse where it got all the started. In kind of moved to the old, the old original bray, any any thoughts on that video patch. Okay. Glad I circle back to it. You never know Lacey. Lacey. Confirming, she's she'll now any thoughts on that. For some reason you mentioning that like imagine like a cartoon of you and me, we're like we're going through the woods and you're. GonNa lead you present something I imagined this cartoon form. You looking all happy. Clicking restaurant and walking on? Disgusted. Being very sad. Sarah Sarah Cooper's. The. Speaking over. Imitating Donald Trump speaking I don't know how to say. Ventriloquist Ventriloquist VENTRILOQUISTS DONALD TRUMP I don't know. There should be a cartoon version of the facts I just walk. Make my boys just like you described like an animated version and people decide go from super, happy and wide tooth very sad and my shoulders slumping. move onto the next thing. Somebody out there. Somebody other. Yes so. Question for that? Lacey Evans confirming Oh. Yeah I mean I. Did I did think the finish of this was clever. In terms of just being really underhanded way for he'll the pick up a win, so you're turning? If you're turning lacy, he'll again. I thought that was a a good way of of getting across that character switch. then. Jeff Hardy pro talking about this week's Is A smackdown match up your match. I can't confirm that now. You're. Are we sure it wasn't on paper view? I just forgot. All right so yeah. Lacey or wait, what am I talking about here? Jeff Hardy, so any thoughts on on the latest, already pro talking about James. T! I wasn't ready for the next thing I needed at six seconds to figure out what to do next. We'll just jump to the main about the look like anything else happened here. Just my riddle INTERCON Otemachi styles winds in eighteen minutes. And they turn that into a pivoted to a Corbin Riddle feudals like. Oh! This is a very good match. very good, main fat and I'm with you I'm cool with the finish there are people were really upset. That riddle lost on so quick into a smackdown tenure, and certainly as a general rule they beat people way too quickly on the main roster, but I thought the finish was laid out in a way so that you watch that and Aj did earned the win. Got You know he got the win? It wasn't a garbage finish, but you're left. At least I was thinking watching this matching over token definitely. Definitely beat Asia. Aj just barely got by the sky and age as one of their one of their top talents. Now obviously, the follow up is key, and it's you know it's not wise to expect optimal. Follow up from other be but I. Think if you have riddell beat Baron Corbin decisively. Work Way back to Asia. You can sell a pay per view rematch down the line where fans will care about vittal, overcoming Aj and capturing the title, so I thought I thought the finish was laid out in a way. That could very easily be. A ineffective setup for a later title match with. With. RITALIN AJ and. I think if you. I tend to think that if you gave the promotion more credit that you'd be. You'd be more open to that. You're just like with aws shown a better ability to protect stars, and when you know Moxley beat Brian Cage last week. It was pretty early into indicators his tenure but I think people thought okay. You know we say thing Lance Archer when he lost to cody. Okay these people are are looking out for different people. It's OK. They can get over this loss and I thought the same thing about the about the riddle AJ thing I. liked I liked the post-match a lot, too I thought it was very well laid out in. That AJ offers, and I haven't heard a lot of people talking about. Maybe they just sort of missed with the story they were telling. The story is came. Question me where AJ offers handshake and. Offering, handshake is the point when Corbin you know, attacks riddle from behind so the the handshake was effectively setting up for the attack, but Aj's facial expression suggested that he wasn't aware that was going to happen, so it felt like a tease, maybe AJ's turning face, but at the same time it might be deal where it was a ploy, he was acting that way, but in fact he was in on that and setting up riddle and you. Could you know you can tell a story where riddle isn't sure whether he can trust at some point, we're gonNA. Learn whether AJ's in cahoots with Corbin. Aj was not incudes Corbin and he's moving in a in a different direction, and so I thought that I thought that I thought that was interesting. I thought you know thought it protected on anything that you may be more interested in coming for the title again and set up the the immediate feud with riddle, beating, corporate and the so. Again I'm you know I'm reluctant to expect too much? But I thought you know and the abstract what they set up in that final segment I thought it positively belt to a number of different things. Like when a Sami Return Jericho shocked and I think the assumption is he knew and was faking it, but I didn't see a cartoonish reaction from Aj from Jericho where it was like feigning surprise. Yeah, I, mean I voted as AJ. It's it felt like I watched that if I'm trying to read that. Ignoring the fact that pro wrestling tries to swerve you on different things. My reaction is age is being sincere. That was just a coincidence. Hugh might be annoyed at the fact that it happened because he did want to give props after that match, and he felt that what Corbin was doing. What's kind of wrong? Need an extra dose of positivity in your arresting podcasts will come join me out for L. Over in the progress, Paradise Opinion Torch Vip as we BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches, and chose from around the world be at the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico, there's always a place of residence passed in the Paradise to, and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series, celebrating glorious career of Thunder, like on our I was there. There when shows where guests will join me to talk about a classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety, and you can expect lots of it at the pro rest paradise detailed. Peter Roof Torch VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available at Piero torture. VIP, Info Dot Com, and yes, all VIP Alcazar compatible with a podcast APPs on iphone and android devices, or you can stream them directly from our AD. FREE VIP mobile site C in the paradise. Okay. So I'll shift to Monday night raw. We opened with seth responding to what happened in the eye for an eye. Match your thoughts on the follow up to that. Before, we get to that broader point here about the show. in ratings have been dreadful. And there are a bunch of reasons for that obviously, but one that I don't hear. A lot of discussion about is the. Counterproductive overall formula this show. People have knocked the booking on some of the matches this week. You know like the champion. The street prophets beating the challenges on Helen Andrade. Kyrgyzstan beating Bailey when Kyrie's leaving. Shortly and it's true you look at those in the finishes. Don't make a lot of sets, but the big overarching problem. I've you in that. Regard is the formula of having an I've looted this on the smackdown part of having all the people involved in feuds on the show. In every match involves people who have present issues with each other and I get why they do that because to them, it's all about the personal issues, and it's not really about competition or working towards titles so it's just about building up these garages, and then having these people who don't like each other over and over and over again, and you're going to be compelled because to have this story that's being told between these two this dramatic story that revolves around them. You know distracting each other and their matches interfering in their matches but when the same people. Wrestling each other every week until the feud is over, and they move onto a new feud, and then have the same matches every week. That's a bunch of different negative consequences number one. It's boring. You know who wants to see the same people wrestling every week for three months. It's monotonous number two. The paper you matches feel important because you've already seen it a million times. So who cares by the point you got like the big climax, because it's just another long longstanding group of matches and number three, and most importantly you necessarily have to just trade winds back and forth until nobody gets over rather than having a bunch of stars winning their matches. You have a show that's full of. Of people going fifty fifty, and if any of them removed, you just put a new person. They go fifty fifty with whoever there and there and so this week it was you know the street profits turn to win, and it was Kyrie's saints, trying to win, even though neither result me that much sense in the big picture, because if you just do the same few matched over and over and over again you have to have both sides taking turns winning and nobody gets over, and that's all this show was so let's go through the match on the show first mattress, allaster, black and seth rollins ouster black has wrestled either seth rollins or Buddy Murphy the last eight matches. He's had on RAW. Time that also black rustled somebody other than Seth rollins or Buddy Murphy on raw, was April twenty seven. It's been four. Months Wade since also black has wrestled in anything other than those same two people, and he's won four of those matches and he's lost four. It's going nowhere. It's the same thing over and over and over again who could care? What? What are the stakes in? This is the same people doing the same stuff over and over and over again you know the the the the next match was folly Cetera Alexander, and Ricochet and Sheldon Benjamin Bobby Lashley in VP Obviously Mustafa scammed to raw cedric Alexander the last six times. Cedric spin on raw. He's wrestled either MVP or somebody that MVP's managing every time except for one week where he wanNA squash he's three and two aside from the squash the last time that Cetera Alexander anybody that was not either MVP or somebody managed by MVP. was. Let's see here. April thirteenth. Ricochet, again. It is delight. twenty-three today. ricochets been on television a little bit more, so he's Russell, a little bit more, but same Sandia last eight matches that that ricochets had on raw reader against envy, P or somebody that's managed by MVP apart from the same tag team squash was said with Alexander, and he's three and four apart from that squash so back and forth back, and forth back and forth and as the same thing with cedric. The last time he wrestled somebody else in the squash was thirteen after that yet peyton voice and we'll be Ryan. Now rubies wrestled one of the iconic last four times that she's been on raw, which is not quite as bad as some of the others, but the last time that she vessel somebody other connex on raw was may twelfth against Charlotte so a little bit better only two months, plus and naturally against the iconic. Card to until. After that street profits street profits are a little bit very more very than most but of their last eight matches on raw. They've either wrestled with against the Viking raiders or against on Hello Dry seven times out of the eight, and then they had one match Lashley an MVP They're actually seven in one so there one act. It's getting pushed. That's a positive, but again very narrow group of people that are feuding with after that was Kyrie's sane and Bailey Kyrie's wrestled Sasha. Bailey, every time she's been on raw since. Bailey is a little bit different. Because her feud on raw is with Oscar Kyrie feud on smackdown Nikki and Alexa, so there's a little variation there, but her last eleven raw smackdown pay per view matches have all been part of one of those two feuds with the exception of one match, which was against the iconic in June other than it's Bailey versus Kyrie Bailey versus Nikki Billion Sasha. Nikki Billion Sasha versus Hoskin Kyri Bailey versus Oscar, billy versus Alexa, billion Sasha versus. You're just saying the same names over and over. Still thinks. Daily Shivers Alexa Nikki. And so on. It's boring to read, and they do it over and over and over again. You know if it's boring to read probably not that entertaining to watch and Bailey's at least getting a Porsche, although that still means eighty three and those eleven matches. That's about as strong as they. As they do, but to me like you can do better than that for your champion than than. Than that as your high point, and then Randy on versus big show which they've you know. They've built better and wasn't the same thing over and over, but but they've wrestled. A million times over the years, and if you WANNA create stars, and make your matches feel exciting to me, having the same people wrestle over and over, and over again is an awful formula, and that's that's putting aside the scripted promos and the cult language and everything else they. They need to improve a lot of things together the whole they've dug for themselves, but one big thing that would help a lot is utilizing the roster. They have so many people under contract and a lot of town of people, and they can protect different key stars by having them beat different opponents every week to setup dramatic pay-per-view clashes where they meet other people who have been. been winning a bunch of matches rather than just having the same people wrestle every week. Training winds back and forth and then you, you get to the big show, inconclusive finish and setup the next cycle I mean look at aws. They're bringing Eddie. Kingston Kingston broadened so much energy compared to the same people wrestling every week, and then cody just beats them clean and the ad because code as a big star, and when cody loses a, it's a big deal I think that's so much more of an effective formula than this formula. The Debbie is rolling out and that formula is a big part of why ratings have been doing so badly during that time period. Wow Yeah that lays out. Very clearly different booking philosophy, and I mean the depth of talent wwe has. Available to them. Collective. People trapped, but They don't have to book this way I mean they just they they. That's one of the things they could do to. If they're looking around going. What are we doing wrong? That's leading to the last two weeks robbing the lowest ever in the last two hundred hours being the lowest, the least viewed hours of raw, having not feel like the same thing with just a slight stipulation changes slight change in in the makeup of the same people in a different type of match. Is is part. It's not the only thing that would make a difference, but it's one of the things that should behind their list when they're looking at. Is there something we can do different? Even if we're not sure it'll work? Absolutely and again a big part that is not only the monotony of it, but the fact that it necessitates this back-and-forth booking where nobody comes across the star. And if you had different people working in there, you would have more of a you know more of a likelihood that you just put over the people that are in the key matches by than rather than the the the back and forth. Yep All right, so yeah, you covered. You covered a lot of their from A. Macro Topical Roll through. If you WANNA talk in anymore. She brought to you by the seth. rollins thing yeah, the problem was just there I didn't find it particularly notable in a good or a bad way. as mentioned I. I thought that well actually didn't match rollins. Beating also black clean was stupid given how much more black needs big winston than Seth Rollins, but again I mean it's you know it's they go back and forth, and I thought either back further. look bad by getting beat up by two guys. Nobody coming out to help him, I think. Possibly black being. that it will set the table for black going to seth. I don't think I. Mean it's it's possible, but I don't view ouster black as somebody that would fit well as a stooge, third member of a of a group I think he's. He's much better office. More of a lone wolf baby face, but. Baby doesn't always have to be you know completely without Franz when I would think it could be on a journey to refrain putting him in that situation where it's clear, it's not a good fit. And he sort of works from within, and there's pretty early signs that people can pick up on that. He's already going, and maybe this isn't the right thing and he gains coffee. Yeah, there's a story you can tell where he ends up landing in the place that makes the most sense for him, but he's sort of spinning his wheels right now, so we can go on that journey in the fans can look at that and observe what. You mentioned, which is, this isn't a good fit watch. Allaster kind of come to that realization gained confidence for who he really isn't break away. With the idea, being I had no friends and I'm getting beat down, and I lost Seth. Maybe there's something I can learn from him being the initial impetus for joining. or I mean you could also do the thing where you know Ron says hey last week, nobody is you know nobody helped you out? Why don't you come? Join me and that's. How that you know that both next thing without a prolonged, he's or whether he might accept true and then. Give him a beer. Thirty. Eight All right, so let's. We had a couple of appearances from Ron Simmons. Just making cameos on the show any any thoughts on what that was all about. David said that it's they were thinking of starting a new nation of domination, which would be quite the idea if they if they did it but you know if that was the plan thankfully decided against wow! Yes, so anyway. We had a bunch of stuff. with MVP and. Scheldt Benjamin and the twenty four seven title, and then we had, we stopped by lease, said Rushing Shelton Bobby VP. If you just want to talk about whatever you have, notes on her, want to talk about regarding that group on. Other, the six man was a good match and. All should have won his first match back in. Obviously he'll be losing next week or the week after, but you know it's better than losing the I I suppose Yup. So. promos match and then picture also Promo event, setting that up before we get to the main got more things talk about. But what do you think of the Promos by both of them to try to increase interest in it? I thought Randy Orton was excellent I thought big show is very good in his own right. I thought they did a very good job of building up that. MEENA VAT and Advertising that manufacture, and it still did poorly, which speaks to a point regularly with you wait, which is that emphasizing for viewers? What's coming up later in the show is only effective. If it's something that viewers want to see and I thought this was something that they could make. People want to see based on how well they did it, but. I would not have thought that going in and so I think for a lot of people they they stuck with their gut instinct, which is randy or big again, who cares? In in fairness to my theory, The draw from the first of the third hour was less than average so they started off low lower than you would expect, they would coming out of a pay per view and ordinance and big show held the audience better than than average for this year, so I would argue that the promos helped them stave off an even bigger drop off in the third hour, and that that served up, and there was time we'll spend on the show. And I. Don't think that's a very good argument. Way Number One. They advertise this thing. Out The week, so the fact that they weren't able to draw a big audience suggested that that all the hammering home of that was undone by the fact that people didn't WanNa see it, and as far as the ratings patterns I don't know if everyone talks about this. At. What point do we accept the general trend because I always feel like this good news, the bad news. The good news is fewer people. The good news is the bad news. Is that fewer people tune at the beginning the good news? They retain the more like it's. It's an obvious connection that there's a group of people that watch the three hours of the show. There's a group of people that are less inclined to to watch the show, and if they do, they tend to watch only closer to ours. Ours, and so if you draw more of those sorts of people, they tend to drop off earlier and if you don't tend to draw a lot of those people, the audience retains itself better because the people that don't WanNa, stick around for a really long show tended auto been there in the first place. Those things are connected so very often and There's a very logical reason for why that would be that I. Don't know why people don't draw causal link more because it seems to me very straightforward. I. Okay well two things. I think if. If you have an audience tuning in at the beginning, and this isn't discounting what you're saying, but it's also not stipulating. The idea that if they draw more people in the first hour, those people are more likely to peel off. I don't I. Don't think that's illogical, but I. Don't think explains Everything and I think if you start off with like this week, they started off with one point seven, four, zero, million, which was more than last week, which was one point eight million. And they lost. Two, hundred five. That's the all time record low by the way show. Yes, yeah, that's true. Well, let's let me look for. One point seven fort while it's hard to find a first hour. That's that low. If we go back to. Nineteen ninety seven. No, no, no, yeah, exactly so no go to four weeks to June twenty-ninth, because it's a reasonably similar I our number of one point eight six, so about one hundred twenty thousand off. And they lost two hundred seventy thousand viewers compared to just two hundred, five thousand. That they lost, and my my only argument is similar to me twenty two thousand difference. That's two seventy dollars. To seventy versus to five. Oh two seven, yeah! Still pretty similar, but that is at least somewhat pronounced jail. Yeah, in the average for the years to sixty two so anything that is a twenty percent lower drop off. I am going to for the sake of defending. My argument attributed to the fact that a lot of those people would have left the show except randy and big show did a really good job talking them into staying otherwise they would have peeled off and it would have been more of an average drop off for the show. Yeah, I just don't buy that at all I. Think I mean and look I'm not I'm not. I'm not creating creating creating a You know like a word document where I keep track of these every time, but. Because I've been thinking for a very long period of time. I note every time this happens, and it happens all the time. which is you know either the good news on the show is that they retain their audience better, the bad news they start with the audience or the good news is. They started strong bad news. They didn't retain their audience as well. It's you know those are the two. Patterns that we see over and over and over again, and I think those are fundamentally connected to the length of the the length of the show in the nature of the audience, and there's a reason why it's much less. Much less often than they are with a low audience, and then they have a big drop off as well or they start with audience, and they don't have a very big drop off. Those two patterns are very rare. which if you had shows that weren't three hours I? Think would be relatively common patterns. Apparently remember the days when women's wrestling matches were relegated to the bit card, dumping ground and treated like glorified intermission. The era when it was only men in the talk in the feds getting the biggest matches every night, yeah! Vaguely. Seriously well, we might have a long way to go. Really have come a long way baby, and that's why we started grit and glitter. CAST covering the best in the world of women's wrestling from the horse. Women WWe to the goddesses of startup and everyone in between. Each Tuesday emily myself and our team of guests, correspondence, talk the best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling. Plus interviews deep dies and discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women behind the scenes roles just search Pete W, torch in the podcast of your choice to subscribe or listen demand and see the entire pw torch cast schedule at pw torch. Dot Com. Okay, so I'm? GonNa cherry-pick couple numbers. Trump! See from April through may from. Cherry pick. I'm admitting up from the table. Right? Okay I'M GONNA take I'm going to grab a five weeks where the first are rating was pretty similar for for the five one point nine, nine, four, one point, nine, four, zero, one point, nine, four, five, one point, nine, three, three. Those are the first hour numbers for four the five weeks April thirteenth to May Eleventh I'm eliminating the one point eight. Oh, seven on May fourth. It's a bit of an outlier because I want similar numbers, the dropoffs, the drop offs for those four shows, one, hundred, sixty to two twenty to forty, seven and one thirty one, so those were high. Higher Than No, those are lower than those numbers reflected post, wrestlemainia low I our numbers, but they're all similar, and there was a wide discrepancy in terms of first to third hour. DROP OFF! During. Five call that a wide scrap three hundred, twenty, six versus one, hundred, thirty, one thousand is a gigantic discrepancy two weeks apart. Says Lulu I mean that's that's still a very very small percentage of the overall audience, and those are the two strongest outliers. You have the whole thing I don't i. don't view that as being I mean. It's one hundred thirty thousand out of out of an overall audience over ten times as large. That doesn't seem like that big discrepancy at all I mean. Obviously, it's all you know. It's all just a framing argument, but I am I don't accept the argument. Those big differences I am sending my statistics to jury I rest my case. All right. What is a number? All right. Let's see here. Obiang, Kabila, what what do you think of Bianca are getting some some TV time now? She's back on. Roz opposed to relegate it to main event. And just the way that they've reintroduced. With. Her I think Bianca's very talented. So the you know them granted. It's better than half off on main event than just training on raw, but the optimal would be to. Have on regularly and winning when she's there because they need. Many talented people as they can get and I think she's one of the more talented people that they have. I think she's her wrestling has improved a lot. She's got a lot of natural athleticism. I think she's come. A significant ways in terms of the quality of harassing over time I think they're still plenty of room for growth enters of personality I. think she is able to pull off cocky in a way that still very likable, but I think that's GonNa. Be The challenge moving forward is you don't want her to become so over the top that should becomes less likeable and you know that's. She's reached that point, but that's something that I'd be. Looking out for you, know for her moving forward. Yeah, I'm. I think she's. A little closer to I think she's in the ambiguous range of turning some people laugh and not managing to be like cocky at this point. Because rapping eastern standard time rather than central time. I don't even notice that so. I will discount that except on a potential subconscious level which I can't disprove. Spread sheet on subconsciousness to. There was a backstage interview with acrylic Crusoe, talking about the Senate with Andreotti and Garza was dissension in the match did. Did I miss something. Or did they edit something out? Then then? They referenced in forgot that they referenced. If there was an remember. Upset they lost. Yeah, but it came across like she's like you guys need to get along and. Zelina I don't know. Yeah, it's just weird. It was like they're talking about something that I didn't notice happening Gotcha. Thinking I wasn't thinking about. This is watching it so I'm sort of piecing together in my mind, but my image of it is, they lose the smashed backstage kind of being annoyed with each other because they lost and that's when she says. Hey, you gotta get along. Yeah, I mean. The framing of her comments were like it was your chance and you blew it again. And then Garza said No. We were on the same page and Andrade agreed so the implication what she was saying yard on the same page. They're saying we were, but the match all up in minutes minus commercial I. Don't remember having dissention that cost them the match it just seemed like they lost. Yeah, they're just arguing over the fact that they lost by the way I. Don't WanNa I don't WanNa break from here, but the as we're talking the nationals world series flag. What a moment weighed it. What a moment today! I, forgot. SUCKER! Any thoughts on the actual metric profits and Garza underwriting. So not really didn't stand out to me when we're another I remember back in eighty seven and ninety one way back when Minnesota one one something in sports China in the parade, and that was a really cool thing so I. I didn't mean to diminish it by pretending that I didn't know they remember I remember those teams to Jack Morrison and Kirby Puckett Kent Her back and and a lot of. Greg with Gregg Gonyea spelled the same Gary Guy Eddie. Hi Yes gary. Guy Yeti tip greater basement Tim laudner. Frank Viola sweet music. Yes, he was. He was a great pitcher for years. He was yeah. Was that a shot back? Here's a great pitcher for a few years. Well, he didn't have longevity. Because I mean and and it wasn't shot because I think people don't think frankly Ola as great as he was fine because it didn't last that long. L. Newman. Yes. I do remember. When I was a kid, baseball was my favorite sport, and it was also a baseball card collector, so I I remember G- lots and lots of you know random obscure major leaguers from the you know the late eighties through mid nineties. Can I sell you some baseball cards? They seem to not have a value like I anticipated as a teenager. On them. No they haven't not at all Ma Still I. Mean I still have like because I i. I stopped like. But still get them occasionally and so i. have a decent like collection of autographs are probably Probably pretty valuable, but yeah. Most of them are not worth anything I think actually my the thing that I have that is the might be the most value is. Eddie Guerrero autograph from that WCW. Top Sat when they're doing like official autographs And those things are very hard to find and and quite expensive, so that might be the best one. That from a show for like thirty or forty bucks back in like maybe like one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine or something so that'd be like one of the rare. Cards purchase that actually appreciated. I do have the Gretzky rookie I haven't looked up with. That's what that's worth. Open okay. Yes, be doing well, yeah! You know what brought up. L.. Newman is like okay I'm GONNA stumped out on this one and I did. It reminds me of yesterday. Tyler sage on the AWA dynamite post show, and at the end he's like yeah, you know twitter I've got a lot of diverse interests, lot of knowledge and a lot of where you know pockets of weird pockets and stuff and you know. Bring up anything we'll we'll. We'll talk about it. There's right array of things I I'm interested in. What's Your Favorite Silent Movie from the Thirties starring with a female in a leading role in like answers it. Wasn't a female. Oh Yeah, my favorite, silent from nineteen from the nineteen thirties was this, and he talks for like forty five seconds on I was like wow, I'm going to have to work on this one for next time you're on. Haven't got to that yet. Although there are much more limited pools of of great silent movies in the thirty s relative to the previous decades so much sure what you would. Would you go with from the thirties? but he may be sold me on it. I might when I'm in the Mood for silent movie. Look that up and watch it. I can't my rent it out. I can always go listen back to the end of the chef. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on W. Torch Daily Cast Dot com hosted by me PW's columnist. Greg Parks each week I'll welcome co host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM, eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at. At the conclusion of that paper view, you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit, PW Torch Daily cast dot com and click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show, link search, pw torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America. Every Sunday pw torch daily CAST DOT COM. All right, let's see I'm getting back entre or was what was the twins reliever during those years, whose last name started with Jeff? I'm I I'm sorry. I name was Jeff. What was his last name? Remember. Once you name it all recognize it starts with our. Jeff reardon. Yes I am. Closer, he was a close yeah. I was thinking of like an obscure middle, reliever. No, no I I'm not even sure I can get like off the top of my head. Come up with Jeffrey also had the big bushy beard, which made a very distinctive as well. Yeah, I'm trying to like think. Yes, he did yes. I'm trying to think of the. All the positions like launer Herbeck Guy Eddie. Who is who is the? It's been this whole time. We've been talking about joining McGraw shortstop. Because, he had an interesting name out. There was a silent letter in it or I. Don't know that was her back, but. Anyway now. We're people. We, want. Adult in that later on my own. So Sasha in Bailey. Come out and react to happenings at horse. Show in that I do kerosene and Bailey your thoughts on all that time. Nothing really to add, and it was again. You know I think they're presumably setting off barely doing something vile to to. Kyrie next the next week before she out so I think that's the the idea there. And then and then I guess it was with big Joe Norton, which is the magic though. I thought this was very well executed that Um big show did a a a very strong job of being sympathetic, and you know suffering at the hands of this really diabolical guy and I thought orden again was was really good in I. Think he's such a strong year. In terms of the way that you know created this really insidious character that feels feels different and feels fresher than you would have expected, and the rating stood out more. Because I think they did a really good job building up that match and it's still died death which to me. Is that even more that they were starting with something that people just didn't care to see and I'm very curious. How the Orden drew. McIntyre program does because I think they've done a very strong job, building or Andrew. McIntyre and making that feel like a big deal and. You'd think that would be able to generate some interest based on how well they've done on it, but. Is Very well may be a deal where people just don't care about about orange because he's been around so long. Which I certainly understand because that was my mentality with orange. For you know for over a decade you know and You Know I. Guess it sort of takes time to overcome those. The presuppositions in the the demo rating just being so bad in a young man. You know eighteen to forty nine it is. I mean I, just I mean that's I'm trying to think of like how many eighteen to twenty five year olds in that range. Have the affection or a recognition of what big show. Like, do they see big show? Tune in see a big show match and I I don't know that they do. Ten year olds who are watching his Netflix's series might but I'm not sure that twenty so. I doubt it I mean it wasn't like that was some hit. On the net flux line one eleven year old who runs into the room big shows on, he goes. because. He watched series. Yeah he just he benched it. Over to mornings. When he thought it was. Do you think he would have gone to it if you weren't his Dad Oh? Yeah, I didn't tell them assuming that this is your son. I'm sorry. Know another ten year old. No, I didn't. I didn't encourage it. I mean I. Don't encourage him to watch wrestling. He just does well. He's still he's still might have been like. Wow only. Wrestling here's a wrestler. Sit. Powell, CIECHANOW. Yeah I don't know. I think I mean perhaps i. mean he the idea that? Yeah, there's something wrestling related, and it's a sitcom. Netflix's saying hey, you should watch it in. The watched didn't liked it enough to binge it. Yeah. I mean I could've. Skipped it. Cover wrestle. I don't know. I can interview and ask him. Access to find that information. Steve Lombard dozy by the way the name I was trying to think of. The Nazri mistaken with the Brooklyn Brawler, no and the baron gear bookie remember that Juan Berenguer Middle Reliever. Of course barringer. Art I I have the VHS I have not given that up. The baron gear boogie. VHS tape. I think they gave it away to game I. Don't know how I ended up. I haven't so. Someone really wants that. You don't even price. Okay, Yeah so anyway back to my actually more relevant point, I wonder if twentysomethings just you know they're watching w. you know like I mean. I mean there's almost as many people in that in that demo. And if we broke down the demo, even tighter, there's probably more people in their twenties watching Awa than Rod lately and care more and it. Would you know about cody and Moxley, and the bucks and on and on then care about big showing radio, who are who are legacy, stars, and legends and Famers, but have been around a long time, and have had some bad story lines, and I don't think in the last ten years have been part of things that we necessarily capture the attention of those those twentysomethings when they were kids. Yeah, well, it's two different things on the two. Because with orden he's been involved in. In, so much stuff that's been uninteresting for such a long period of time were as big show pictures of generally treated as something important. You know like he's just a guy that turns back and forth, and you know you lose more often than he wins. He's not. He's not presented somebody important. This is an attraction, so you know I don't know why that would resonate with people. I think I think that the fact that all the people stick around more is less about them identifying with any and big show because they're older and more about that. They just don't have like when you're younger. I think you're more apt to just like. This isn't very good. I'll try something new. To this. I'll go to that so. Younger people I think gravitate towards whatever's at you know. Whatever's popping at that point in time you know whether it's music or TV or movies or whatever, and so you know the the stuff that's just sort of coasting on its reputation there. I think older people are less likely to drift away from as quickly so i. think that's more. What's going on and I think view would certainly benefit from having if you're going to spend this time in this attention. And I think again. That done a good job with this stuff here, but I think you'd. You'd benefit more from focusing that television. Time on making people think that Keith Lee is a really big deal Anwar. smackdown or making people think that Matt Riddle is a really big deal or or You know we're allaster, black or one of the many people that are sort of fresh and new. Yeah, no I, a youth movement, and I mean I think that's what Paul Heyman was trying to do within the confines instructor structure of what he could. But you know Ali and and riddle. I'd be putting time into more than randy and big show in part. Because it just hasn't. It's been the a focus during a time of declining overall ratings. Problem with the with the Haymond thing. Is that by the time that he had started trying to those people so many of them had already been defined out, and Mike I like trying to do it there, but like I I thought a lot of the people he was doing. We're just pastor and I know I differ from other people who FAO g with they are. A bad opening fetch show I'll look. Can You do? Uh can start their. That thing just sort out of the way. towards the DUGOUT. Focus. Occur to I'm quicker to view people as being unsalvageable than other people are put. Unsalvageable, but like you're better off just building somebody new, even if they aren't as you know as good, just grab somebody fresh and I think thousand problems there. It was that so many those people had already been. Weakened in the booking and presented is not being very important that you know it would have been better. Just grab a new group than and run with them. I have noted twitter quote of the week. I'm, quicker. To view unsalvageable than others are. Okay, that's actually that's actually not true in General Santos pro wrestling setting and I don't i. don't really care. I just WANNA provocative quote. CONTEXT NUANCE OR, anything What Fun is that? We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? 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Let's see attorney just around the SPN and or just showing close up of a bunch of empty seats. Let's. Mark, some. Seats. Yes, all right, let's see. So, we're done with raw anything that I skipped over that you had Onoda. Ana. Let's. Let's jump to last night. W show. and. They opened with Cody in and. We before we get going on this show I got something to say about this one this well. Oh this is a great show I thought. Entertaining stuff up and down. Really good wrestling. Really good angles got a bunch of people over I thought. This is one of the best episodes of dynamite. They've done You know it wasn't. It wasn't presented as the most important in terms of the stakes, but up and down the show I was watching one segment after another I think this is doing. This is entertaining, and it's getting people over over and over and over again this this was a great template for what eight for dynamic should be. Yeah, yeah. I felt bad because I after I. Do the PODCASTS and do my I do the life podcast afterwards and I do my hotline and. Talked through the show and I have a chance to reflect an. Hotline and I was like. This was a better show than I portrayed it at the top of the. At the top of the live show shows over boom I. Scramble I. Get logon start taking calls talk with coast. Whatever and I was like well. What's the one thing you grab and go on? This is what this week will be remembered for, and it had like lots of good stuff, but I was like well nothing jumping out as at one singular thing that yeah start with other than same evora and the idea of him coming back, which wasn't really about. It was something kind of to the side of the show, but then when I by the end of the evening after talking about it for hours. I was like this wasn't like. It didn't have like one big thing, but start to finish. It was just. It, moved forward so many storylines. It felt kind of that debt. The remember the after Wrestlemainia when things get reset. There'd be everything that SORTA be freshened up. You could tell there was some ideas that are holding off on because they just had to get through Wrestlemainia. And after three special shows with themes now they're heading towards their big show And they have all these things that they just kind of put the wheels in motion on. Yeah. I'm with you the first hour, just so high-octane, and then even the rest of the show. It didn't have that. Energy in the ring or whatever, but it had in terms of character development, just kind of intriguing little droplets here and there of things that moves move things forward and reshuffled I thought was really good So, what did you think of the Promo from Kingston? I loved it I thought that young any Kingston was such a breath of fresh air I mean not that that to me is professional wrestling. You know like I'm not saying make any. Championed by any means or even necessarily the sign that he can extend like that's basically what I want, pro wrestling a big rugged tough guy. You give him a microphone. You don't know what he's going to say. And what he's focused on is kicking somebody's ass. You know like that that's us. That's what I like about wrestling and and Python, True absolutely I thought it was a great poem of the mattress. Entertaining to I. Hope that they work. The thumb tacks into the cody story like I think he shouldn't just come back next week. Like nothing happened, but I thought it was a segment wherever everybody got off, I thought cody got over in in in in winning. I thought Eddie Kingston made a great accounting firm South, and like like I, said I'm I'm fine with signing him. Find with not signing him Eddie Kingston's guy been around for a long period of time his you know his his strengths and weaknesses are pretty clear Here's a guy that I feel like it kind of Kind of came along too late in the sense that I thought he would have fit into that e C, w time period really really well in terms of strengths. And he instead came into like the period where it was more of an hour away time period, and those are not his strength as much, but the fact that he was different than a lot of people. I think you know. Give some advantages that other people don't have. Yet so the match itself. What did you think of cody's role in this and the continuation of other portrayal? I thought it was a good match yeah. A. I, don't read too much into. Cody's mannerisms will make another just because you know as we talked about he's he's Dory funk junior character where he's the champion. He's a star and the way that you feel about him. Largely depends on who who's interacting with. Each week. What one thing I didn't think was funny. Was Eddie Kingston brings in the thumb tacks in the bag, and if you've been watching wrestling for any period of time, recently, you're expecting. Those or thumb tacks because people bring the tax. You know bags. All the time, but poor Tony Savant he has no idea what might be in this bag and he's just shocked when it's tax. And it reminded me of all those episodes of nitrile been watching where Tony is full each and every time by fake sting sometimes multiple. You know like. Oh, it staying, staying at staying, and then when like you know the six foot ten guy you know attacks, you know. Diamond. Dallas page with a bat and pulls off the plastic thing. He's like okay. That wasn't staying and then another fake. Sting. It's I. I appreciate Tony Sherani decades of. Of being completely unable to to to figure things out. and was completely four by. Two so poor, poor gullible Shirvani. Yes. I think he was expecting a longer suspension for Sammy though so we got to give them a little break. They go. PRE-TAPE MOXIE PROMO? Not Super Long but any comments. Jeff and Griffin Garrison. I like to spend a lot too. I thought MGM had that killer instinct that I've been wanting to see more of where he just looked like he was not just a jerk, but somebody who's dangerous and vicious and I think that adds a gravity to his character and he just you know destroyed poor griff garrison as he should have. That's that's exactly what he should have done. I thought very factor in adding dimension to the character that he would benefit from having. yeah, this was my one of my favorite jeff segment because it captured his. He'll entertainment factor without being too entertaining where you're like kind of with him. And then he was really tough in the match he came across as bad as in the match, not playing chicken role or leaning on wardlow to help or anything like that and I think for him to reach the highest level on the car. That is where the that that's the direction. They should be going with his with his presentation. Exactly. Remember Baker. Baker getting a little over exposed I think she'd be better off taking a week or two of television You know they've sort of they. We've got the joke now and serve just hitting variations of the joke and this it's a funny gimmick, but I think it would feel fresh off a little bit, and then bought it back particularly since you can't wrestle right now, so she can only. Yeah Yeah. Then, we had. The interview, Tasr and Brian Cage, with. Tasr Explaining that it was rough week, brank angels and Appleton throwing the Towel, so they followed up on that, and then explained how they kind of came to to to piece on that and try to justify why he's still the Twa World Champion, and then we had the ink with Derby Allen running out followed by ricky stark soon, then Max. Yeah those good poems I tasked, although I thought it was still very hard to justify why cade cages carrying around this F Twa. Title I, don't think they're all to pull that off on. I understand Ricki. Strokes is an early contender for knockout of the night. You have seen Saturday night event he, he did very well. There pretty pretty brutal. And I think it's a good spot for for stocks. Then, we had butcher laid against the young bucks. Your thoughts on that. I? Really liked this match as well entertaining as hell plus Lakewood JFK established that toughness to the box rather than just doing moves. which is you know he there another act I think benefits from having more of that the one the one improvement I would have made is to a WHO's to say. What's improvement one? The one modification would have made is. is to give the box more reason to show that edge because you know the butcher, the blade have been. You know kind of feeling the box, but it's not like they did anything. You know particularly bad to Piss them off. Whereas if you had a built in reason for them to get more upset, like let's say they said something about the Boxes Dad. Then you could, you could accentuate the story by saying like Oh. You know the butcher and the blade did axe look at. The way the box acting here. This sends a message of what happens when you got them really motivated. Yes. Yes, all right. Then we move into our number two with the women's match. diamanti getting when here any thoughts on that. Others are the disappointment I was expecting more I didn't think this was a good match at all. and they announced the the women's Tournament. The. Lethal, lottery battle basically your thoughts on on that being a theme later this summer. We'll see how they do. They never worked out well in the past, but I do think as I was thinking about it that the idea works better over series of weeks where you throw in about parents, and then you can sort of establish the new partners and have them interact with each other and tell stories that I think that works better as something that happens over a series of weeks and in one night. Where you just sort of do it, and they interact in whatever way that is, and then you move on so I think there's more possibilities with happening over a period of weeks. All right. Do you have any kind of big art that you think they or end point that they're trying to get to with this like any prediction on where they what when we look back and they'll be like okay. They did it for this reason, but in the end this is the main thing people remember. I don't know I think they probably have a number of ideas with it. Yup All right so then hangman page in five a win for page, not a squash. And then the angle with F. T. W. in Kenya, a dark order, and also a little Colt Cabana cal. Yeah! I thought they gave five too much time with hang page, but least page. Put over superstar in the end. and they did a lot of things in the segment. They advanced Cabana story they set up the dark order against page and Omega, and they began to set up what feels like a pretty natural match for some point in time with FDR and page against the box and Omega. You know the beer the beer-drinking good old boys against the you know the Bible Thumping do-gooders. Even WanNa be betrayed that way. I'm probably not but you know their natural personality. differences so I. I don't think they will probably do that as a long term thing, but it feels like a natural to do at some point, and you know you tease a little bit of dissension before that, and then you move to whatever you have plan next after you. Are made by the time Jake Chris Jericho can start Jurassic Express. The match first, and then your thoughts on the. The return of semi bar. Match and yet foot the laid out the. Return pretty well Come back. He said something stupid. They suspended for a month. That's. All right, so then moving onto an xt from last night aren't wait, aren't you? GonNa ask me if there's anything Oh yes. I know the answer now. But. was there anything else on the showtime? Do you know the answer? Because there is something that I'm talking on the show which I can't believe you didn't bring because I thought it was one of the highlights of the shell. If the highlighted the, let me think. No, don't I? I'm not going to look at the report. I'm just going to think what could I forgotten. I can't think of it. I loved Lance Archer destroying people, back. There's locker room full of you know just little tiny people who I don't even know why they were back there. Presumably, they're wrestling on darker something and. Art should just laid waste. He's throwing them through walls. He threw one of them through the ceiling. He dumped one in a trash can I I was ready for another ten minutes of that I I thought that was so much fun. so yes, more more Lance Archer, just just to store people placed. Tremendous! All right on to. It and that's one of the things. I enjoyed the show as well. There's a whole lot of people just getting. beat up and that I I enjoy that nipple wrestling show. All right so moving onto x t perhaps Yup. We are we have. DEXTRA. Killian Day in in the in the open. Oh, I'm sorry. The announcement at the beginning by Regal to about the North American title. I I liked the way. The keithly carried himself in presented himself in that intro thought he came off as a big star on that I was surprised that there was a fair amount of criticism from vacating the North American title so quickly Costa me like he was a secondary champion. He got his chance. To prove is the best overall. He won the primary title, and so we'VE AKA the secondary title that to me is that makes perfect sense to me? I don't have any problem with that As far as the way that Regal announced determining the new champion, I do not like as much I think you know the series of triple threat matches followed by the ladder matches. Give me a gimmick. Gimmicky year then I like when you're creating a new champion. All right, then texture Lummus and Killian deigned extra wins this one over ten minutes. Oh. This is pretty good. I thought it was better than a lot of the mattress and I'm amused by adding some baby-faced mannerisms to a psycho character. It's it's it's an interesting. Contrast everybody likes. MERCH money. You go all right. resign. Go and ever is just quick. Win for Brazil. sheltie BLACKHEART aaliyah. Roberts Dome? I mean the coverage stone character is death, and they should just drop it you know it's like one of those main roster acts. That's beyond redemption It's unsalvageable. And and Mercedes joining him does her. No favors so yeah they. Should just move on. On salvage. Stone, you know, make them into some other character. I, mean this this Robert Stone brand with the Leah's just yeah, it's not working. unsalvageable was one of the runners for the name of the PODCAST. Aloha torch faithful. This is Kelly wells host of twit, talks and X. T every Thursday. You can hear me and my gang of. Tom Style shares thoughts from the Lai tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in annexed live on USA, network, search, torching apple, podcasts or podcast, APP to subscribe or listen on demand and seedy, entire W torch, daily cast schedule at pw torch, daily past dot, com, cheers! Let's see. A little a segment on Isaiah's swerve Scott. Did that do anything for you? Yeah well. I mean. You know. I thought it added some personality to to who he is yeah. All Right You. Homerun! All right Brunton read roderick strong Johnny Gargano. Behind what's what? Hockey Homerun I'm not gonNA. Say they're. Talking about I think I, it was live. Yankees and I must have paused at some point. Oh. The bad news. I. Don't know why I was about fifteen seconds behind, but somehow I was fifteen seconds behind. No I was fifteen seconds behind I. Thought. You would already seen it when I said it. You had to be thirty seconds behind. Whatever technically speaking because I did hit the back button once because I wanted to see a graphic on the screen in the background, so yeah, it wasn't that far behind. Yeah Yeah you're the bringer of bad news. A pox on you. Always said kill the Messenger. Wow. Oh a ball. Not a straight. Somebody's one fan just left the building. About all right? This is not a watch along. Let's get back to. Read Strong Gargano triple threat to advance to the North American championship ladder match. Thought this was a very good match surprised at the wind. Is Good so I'm cool. With I'm getting a little more of a focus. Is there any chance read winter North American title I mean it would feel a little retro Gargano to win. It would seem like a boost for strong. But Bronson read, it would be innovation that I just don't know if it would. If it would work I think it would I mean I'm not. Anti Regis the way he's been booked. I know. We got to win back, but he just doesn't seem like he's been booked to someone. You would take seriously quite that level. And chances are very very low threshold. Wrong but I. Certainly I certainly do not expect him to win this match. I would be very surprised if he won this match yet. He wins and then. I mean I don't think a title match that it's going to add a lot of suspense with him. In it I guess, put it that way. Oh he's he's a different body type, so you can do some different spots with him. You know he can be You know you can catch on doing big spots and they can do. Are you know big man die of at some point? I I think I think it makes sense to have him in the match. I only. Timothy Thatcher Thatcher a winter twelve minutes. I'd very much like this match. rematch is on TV or tricky. Because so often, the loser really gets hurt if they lose twice, but on the flip side. If you're trade winds, it often means nothing or hurts both guys, but here I thought that should be strong in the first time, and in this bachelor can came back strong thought he showed. He's no joke. He was a tough challenge. Giving dot. Everything could handle so thatch how to use a dirty trick to get by. I thought Thatcher stayed strong, but you also gained a more respect for work. In the way he was able to handle himself even in defeat, so I thought it was those ineffective story that twelve for both guys. anything more on Robert Stone and Mercedes Martinez segment that followed. Now. Okay, then made Dodgy Cova against carrying cross across when he was one of thirteen minutes your thoughts on that. I love the execution of this one I thought it the way we came out wanting to help, but Jacovic waved him off. Thought was really effective. Cross was a menace. Lee was good friend and Dutch Kovic was a tough guy who just wouldn't give up. the one thing I would have changed as I thought it was at it strongest and most dramatic point after cross kick the steps into Kovic, had and then mounted him in the ring, and then Lee comes out and then crossed MSA mcgann and gives them that brutal, looking Albo and to me. They should have just done. A Kale stoppage finished with the elbows. Elbows because I thought it was. It was more dramatic and brutal when he was doing that. And instead when they apply the rear naked choke after that the rear naked choke felt kind of merciful by contrast to the elbows made I thought crossing less brutal than when he was using the elbows. I know they don't do a lot of the Those TKO finishes Banal without fans. Now's the time if you want to do. More of those two to educate people to them and I thought this one really was a was a match that called for that without the optimal thing, so I'm that's the one thing I would've. Switched up. What do you make of just undisputed era and where Adam Cole has been since? Since its laws. He hasn't done that much. On television. That angle they. Show, but they didn't mention undisputed air I don't think. Yeah. They did the angle with that Jackass. What's his name Oh yeah. Anyway what doesn't matter what his name? That was that productive, but Other than that I don't really get a sound I mean he's in a place where you could turn baby face if if you wanted, but you could also work to heal, so I assume they have something significant plan for him shorty coal. Groundwork. I gave you the dirtiest of could tell I. could tell over over audio. Well. What honest here is no like that if they're if they're getting ready to bring it with main roster. Skit is how they think like the first thing people are gonNA. Think of his Adam Cole. Super Thin, skinned about being short, and that's what they think is. That's what Vince McMahon would think. Everyone thinking. Stop Your fussing. We stop it. I don't want I. Don't WanNa. Think about this. Okay? We will move on I think it's possible. Not what's happening, so I'm going to north. Okay sounds good anything else next. Kind of kind of a weird thing valor vignette. Public more of a hill? So. We'll see next week with that. Bizarre match with Finn Bala Versus Timothy Thatcher versus texture luminous quite the. Quite the group. Wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life well, we're those kind of people to, but we do so with mixed martial arts I'm Robert via host hosts of enemy. Talk for pro wrestling advanced every Monday on pw torch, his daily cast lineup. Not only do we cover every you have see Bella tour event. We provide context that only wrestling fan would really understand I mean. We're the type of people that if you ask us about how much of a mess the middleweight title situation is, we're likely to reference WCW in the early nineties. Think of us as a podcast for casual MMA. Done by hardcore wrestling nerves, and you could find us by searching pw torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast APP and were always available on demand at P.. Torch de cast dot com where you can check out. The entire lineup of the PD matured daily casts. All right. Let's see so we are from A. Standpoint down to you f see what's going on in the world of. What isn't going on in the world of your say? So task card was a mixed bag, a lot of decisions, but also a bunch of. Different submission. Yes, so a bunch of. First Rodney Bar I want. He'll hook first triangle choke first round guillotine, choke and I. Choke. Main of that was going to dig. that. It was scary performance Davison Figueredo. He just white. Joseph Bene- this out. I mean. He knocked him down early. He clearly rocked. went for your naked choke once looked like he had it, but joe fought out what I again. Joe Out again went for third time, look. He really had at that time, but again. Joe Got out return to his feet so on the feed. Davis knocks him down with a punch for second time. JOE GETS UP Davidson. A third time late knocks him down again with another punch bloodies Joe with elbows, and then he applies this rear naked choke face, crank and just twisted at this nasty angle. If carrying causes a choke it. Look like this. I would've felt differently about about the point earlier and Joe went unconscious from that I. Mean it's the only time Joe's ever been submitted. MMA and it was a brutal route. I mean. Joe showed heart, but Davison I mean. He's a phenomenal fighter and he's a violent fighter. It's it's too bad. They've emptied out the division because I love to see him against Dimitrius Johnson or one. One hundred pseudo or killed you Horiguchi on one of those guys but i. don't even know who Ho fightbacks maybe brandon marina or someone like that Komeda that was Jack Hermansen and Calvin gasoline, and that was a quick fight. Ask them took it to the ground, but Hermansen started going for submissions, and it caught gastronome in a heel hook. hermits was so happy about his when he was very very happy. that's. Five wins in six fights for him pretty strong competition so. He's definitely one of the top middleweight contenders and. Gasoline lost three straight, so that's a big setback for him. of all the missions on the card I thought Ariane. Lipsky was the most impressive they they watch the ground early and Lipsky Lipsky sets up this this knee bar from more elevated position than you frequently get with Niba ours It was almost like the old point the clown. Wait. Why don't you GonNa? Highlight the other home run their regard better homerun, good news The good guys are are are coming back well I. Mean you don't have as much of a vested interest in this one, but actually I do the Yankees history of destroying the twins in the playoffs. Leads every every opponent of there's ABC's. Yes, yes, come aboard! I'm also an avowed Yankee hater having. Grown up this as an orioles fan before the nationals moved to town so. The Yankees were. Were the top rifles in the MINNESOTA. Twins came from Washington originally. So, too, so yes, there's a little little connection with us, so I'm a fan by default of the Washington basically. There, you go, so yeah, so it was like it was sort of like the old stomping polar where she had the knee at this. You know just cranking it up from a top position with a lot of leverage and body weight behind the bar when she accident WanNa Karleena was in tremendous pain shootout out from this Only knockout of the night was Roman. Dorsey, who threw a kick at these Abrahim off and calm with a knee as he was throwing the kick and the knee. Ibrahim's lights out so impressive knockout there Joe Duffy he wanted for a takedown Alvarez, but all rose quickly grabbed the guillotine at the TAP. There Duffy retired after the fight his his claim to fame was that they beat Conor McGregor before McGregor made it to the of C., but he lost three straight and sort of faded as As a factor a mural bossy took the fight with Malcolm Gordon on short notice, and he got Gordon Down Quick Watch work on the ground pod triangle choke and got the submission so good win for him. this weekend is the best TV card in a little while main of it is Robert Whitaker against terror intel great fight Whitaker's former champion tells top contender. He has a strong fan following his own rights 'til that is automakers. Have it as a pick em so very competitive match up in a really important one too I'm very curious how that one goes co-feature. Marisha Shogun, Antonio. GARRA battle of legends they fought twice before Shogun one both and Nogueira's now forty four years old, so Shogun, certainly the favourite. Here. Really interesting heavyweight bout for Brazil Verdun meets Alexander Gustafsen. Retirement proved to be very short-lived and he's not moving up to heavyweight and very curious how he does because he was a very tall, light heavyweight, so you'd figure. He'd be well suited to move up to heavyweight, but he has struggled to a five in recent fights interestingly, Gustafsen is a three to one favorite against Verdun. Who's you know former heavyweight champion fighting heavyweight, so a lot of confidence and Gustafsen and a lot of name, value and star power. Those top three fights in looks like it's going to be. You have seized last relatively uncontested car before as we talked about at the beginning the big sports. Start coming back also on the card is former star way champion Carlos bars? She meets Maria Rodriguez. WHO's Marina Rodriguez? Excuse me, WHO's. But oddly has to draw in the last four fights Alex Cowboy. Oliveira's on the card. He Needs Peterson. Boda the perpetually underrated Francisco tornadoes back. He meets Johnny Herbert so a lot of stuff on the AFC card. Good good, good by car, and then also this weekend is the return of Balladur they're. They're not not biggest car by any means, main event is Ricky Bundy. hus- against Sergio. Patas Patas. Anthony Palace, and he wants tour debut, and so he looks to return here with another one and found house. Is been looking good of light I? Mean he? He has a couple of impressive recent knockouts. So this would be a is a good opportunity for him. during mean meets makes his debut after a pretty long. You've see Ron. He meets Jason. Jackson and Aaron Pico who, if nothing else? Always? Excitement meets Chris Hotly Junior, so that's The you've seen Bella tour cards on this weekend. Oh. No, they're replaying vouchers. I Pech. Brutal. Coming out of the break here. I'm like I said I'm fifty seconds behind what cable service. It's. Verizon files. Okay Yep I've you TV, and I'm now learning. It's for Life Sports. It's behind even though I'm on the live the life feed. And, I found out that if I'm behind the live feed, I will be behind other people. Yes. It's still a Fan a commercial here. I'M GONNA. See the first pitch. I haven't seen it. Oh here we go YEP. He's the wind up. He said Oh no. At least he was wearing a mask, he can deny him. Yeah the mask the mask Curtis Vision. That's class that's great. All right. Look it up, people. We're not going to spoil it for you. It's pretty spoiled. Not Describing. What made me laugh about it, but? I think we discussed everything that happened in the movie. Instead go wash it people. I could add it the the the addition. We haven't spoiled forty. Earlier today across the street at a daycare center on a bike ride some toddlers trying to throw a basketball into a hoop and I think. They had a little more finesse than what I saw saw there. Sorry Doctor Fauci we. We love you otherwise for. Your expert at? Cool so so anything else from current events. No okay, so Tatyana continued recording, and we're GONNA. Go now for VIP members to his review of the Horns Togo book, and the Michael Bisbee book, and then Roskin answer mailbag questions, one of the highlights of VIP membership for so many people is the fix. Mel Bag every Thursday. So go VIP. Don't miss out. Get this show with plugs edited out and get the fix every week. Two three sometimes four hours talking about the previous week in wrestling answering Mellberg questions, book reviews current events. Talk and Fun Banter, so go VIP. POW TORCH DOT com slash. Slash go! VIP is how you become a VIP member. You can dive into our library. There are so many rabbit holes to go down whatever time period you're most fascinated by. You can read our contemporaneous coverage. What did we say at the time? It was happening for anything that happened professional wrestling. Since the late nineteen eighty s including a lot of familiar names that you have heard including aircrew was on the eight W. Post show last week as my co host, he was a columnist for me for the person. Torch weekly newsletter back circa, nineteen ninety. So. There's a long running history of a lot of veteran voices, contributing who back then rookie voices, and you can see what he was writing saying about the wrestling scene back then follow the ups and downs, and Ebbs and flows the highs and lows of the wrestling business in our unmatched single source library. Of Independent Voice hard hitting commentary, and behind the scenes insights into what was going on a pro wrestling including just for membership. If you're into reading, vintage, insider, question and answer format torch, talk interviews, there's. A ton a ton of big big names who added long-form interviews with before there were podcast interviews hosted by wrestlers, or before they were podcast period, the longest running most in-depth series of interviews were transcriptions of long interviews. I conducted with pro wrestling's biggest names whether it was executives from W. W. Executive Vice Presidents Bill Watts Jim herd Kip FRY Bischoff to wrestling announcers and managers. Jim Ross crews Lance Russell daybreak on and on to approach things biggest names stone. Cold Steve Austin the Rock Hall Hogan Goldberg Kevin Nash Scott. Hall on and on. You can dive in and just go year by through our archives organized chronologically available in pdf or text formats, actually most cases now both PDF format in our library, and we add a new PDF and text back issue every weekend to to keep things fresh from the twentieth anniversary date. Anyway. That'll do it for me. 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WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Powell preview WWE Super Showdown & AEW Revolution, talk 10 years of NXT, WM lineup prospects (2-25-20)

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:04:02 hr | 9 months ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Powell preview WWE Super Showdown & AEW Revolution, talk 10 years of NXT, WM lineup prospects (2-25-20)

"Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join me Jason Powell weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team and pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names pro wrestling industry subscribing team stitcher downcast and all your favorite Secondary Abbott or visit us directly at PW BOOM DOT com once again. That's PW BOOED DOT COM. Now pw torch and spreaker bring you the. Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship. Talking current events in pro wrestling Jason. I for for months. We're looking forward to at tenth anniversary. Show it was a historic occasion so much anticipation and build up. I was it everything that you anticipated. I couldn't believe they held the show. Here I mean there's not this rich history of Minnesota next. We've had somehow shows but to bring the tenth anniversary show here and to to let everyone know at the very end of the show that it was the tenth anniversary was a big deal. Yeah so Jason. I attended annex t with Kelly Wells. Who's the host of one of the one of the main hosts of P W T toxin x t show? Who's not one of the main Hoesch? Well Counter Kelly sort of the main host but it's sort of also ensembles. I'm trying not to get in trouble with Tom and trying to get you in trouble. Yeah what you're you're succeeding ads on my wording. So yeah he he joins us. He's part of the. Pow Torch Daily cast lineup. They cover annex t every Thursday. So we're we're watching the show and and then after the main event Tomasa Champa grabs a Mike and he had blown a kiss to somebody during his ring entrance. Which is like blowing kisses is not to Moscow Champs Gimmick you know like that falls a little outside the realm of what? You'd expect to see so I figured okay. He knows someone in the crowd fair enough. I'm so I thought the matches over. He's just going to say hey. I got a special announcement you know. My you know sisters here. In Baba she just graduated and became a doctor something personal and sort of semi random that people can apply politely. No He's like this is the tenth anniversary of St and sure enough. It was ten years ago as of Sunday that annex t replaced e CW on Scifi network and off to the races not quite knowing where they would air or what they would be but it is when you look at what has become compared to what it was when it began. It's quite dirty Jason. I WanNa talk about the event we saw but first of all. I want to talk about like we're annex started and the skepticism of let's say skepticism but just sorta like when you talk about it becoming a third brand. I remember telling you then sort of defeats the purpose of it's existence for being a developmental territory and that was the conversation. We're having five or so years ago and here we are attending a really good live event on Sunday night and Sunday late afternoon into the evening depending on when you decide evening starts Jason. When does evening start at six o'clock but I can be talking to earlier? Yeah I like the. I like the blocks of time so to me. It's like six. Am To noon is definitely morning right noon to six as afternoon. Six to midnight is evening midnight to six. Am is really early morning or really late night and that sort of flips at some point arbitrarily in the middle. Someone needs to decide that because I have no idea whatever new Japan has shown like. What do I write? Yeah I know so I can. I can accept that like if you get up at five. Five fifteen an. That's morning I can deal with that. I just don't like calling five o'clock evening like I don't know why maybe it's a central time zone thing or who knows what but then sixty show started at five in the afternoon. I'll stick with that and it was. It was a really good show. I don't know fourteen fifteen people in attendance pretty typical for what they draw. I think they've been here three other times I thought maybe they should have drawn a little better being on USA network but then they were opposite of a big Minnesota. Wild game is their social. Yeah Yeah I mean in playoff run. Sure Games in hand and all that so anyway people were. It was a big game in the sense that somebody would have gone with us. Who didn't 'cause they went to the wild game so anecdotally at hurt attendance at least by one there you go. Yeah I mean okay if nothing else the Stanley Cup champions were in town. I did notice unusual number of Saint Louis Blues Jerseys You bandwagon jumping mopus. Yes so you know it's it's cool to have an X. T. attending I mean it sort of has replaced are wage Being a show that size of show annexed sort of become a regular stop which is fun to see but tad the tenth anniversary here with very little fanfare. In fact there are people in the company who were at. The show didn't owes a tenth anniversary. Glad somebody kind of figured that out and Tomasso CHAMPA decided to sing happy birthday. I had one at eight man tag match against undisputed era he teamed with Velveteen Dream and Piton and Matt Riddle very good main event and saying happy birthday and lead the crowd and that I did not have my money to Moscow Champa closing with the song but he did so it was it was a coup lament but it did cause me to kind of reflect a bit on on x T. Jason just talked a little bit about your thoughts on annex t over the years when it started as you know Michael Cole. Making Fun of Internet fans while they had Daniel Bryan one of the best in the world as a certainly meant to troll Internet fans linked with MS as his mentor and coach. And they did that. You know the bunch of others who about over the years like Chris. Jericho being paired with Wade Barrett and our truth. The being paired with David Otunga PUNK DARREN. Young Christian slater leader with Michael Tarver Matt Hardy. With Justin Gabriel William Regal was skip. Sheffield shows kind of built around a weird format to replace. E- CW which just sort of faded creatively into just a filler show. Yeah and then it went through various incarnations and Hulu Plus Dot Com exclusive Hulu exclusive and now and then a network exclusive at now to our national show on USA network early version. I mean I think as time goes on. People are going to be more fond of certain. They're going to remember the key moment they're gonNA remember Daniel Bryan L. wasn't so bad. That show was terrible. Vince McMahon called it the next evolution of television. I believe it was and it was hideous. I it just like I don't know what I think. They were making it up as they went along. They had all these challenges and things. And it's not that there weren't moments in there but if I'm wwe rename that version of Hynix T. Like next game show or I don't know how the if they just listed all on the network as exte- but I feel bad for the two people out there that say I'm GonNa go back and watch an exte- from the beginning and see what this is all about and that's what they get. Yes absolutely I mean I think at the time they were calling it. Wwe Next. I don't even think they called it annexed on the first show they just dropped e but I think they called the WB next and they actually had to buy the from so many groups. Eh by the trademark annex T to use those ladders but it did after smackdown moved to Sifi Annex T was bumped from national TV and went to WWe DOT COM. And then it got revamped in. May of two thousand twelve and ended up being a showcase for developmental wrestlers. And that's when they started taping at full sail. So we're we're about three months away from the eighth anniversary of the current incarnation of X T. I think where people consider. I think that would be a more apt anniversary to have in terms of it launching as a full sail developmental group instead of Gimmicky. Tv show that said it did start off with some developmental wrestlers as a central core part of it even with a game show mentor. Protege concept or pro and pros and rookies. I guess but the just took this took this journey into growing into something bigger than we thought although you can make the argument now after being on USA Network for a handful of months critical acclaim for WB network selling out takeover events. Why are they drawing more on the road when they do? How Shows Jason? I mean they don't drop it. They don't they can't run and succeeded and bigger buildings except for occasional takeover for the takeover specials on big weekends where people are in town anyway or on occasion like Portland a separate show. I think it's on them. Just every show that they've come to town with they. Just give you a very generic on TV and some. They've been doing more of those lately than they used to. Which is Great? But they don't bother to give you a list of talent. It's going to be there anymore. They don't give you any match announcement. Somebody did say that somewhere. I didn't even know this was a thing. The Roy Wilkins website apparently had a lineup at some point news to me. I don't know how many people actually frequent that website where the amount was held auditory. Yeah I mean I it just the and this is everywhere. I do look up. Just in case I'll go to usually touring go to like one of the arena websites and I'll certainly check the LA venture page to see if they're listing anything. It's those are the only shows they don't list would for or the annex t shows they used to. I don't know why I know. And I bet there's frustration and annexed over that you know if it's I doubt the way triple H is involved in Annex T. At least last. I heard that he would be in favor of a lack of of localized promotion but maybe their internal seldom that you know. It's the brand that sells you know. People either go where they don't go and if you just consistently give them a good show announcing lineup ahead isn't really necessary and they might not want to plan ahead because they might not want to give some things away like they announced the show before velveteen dream made his surprise return so their pregnant at the change. The lineup anyway. Did they WANNA give away too far ahead? Who the North American champion would be or. Do they want to advertise a lineup? That is going to change because there's going to have a title title game so I sympathize to some degree with the balance between putting out a line of you know isn't GonNa take place. Which does does for Ron smackdown often. And and you know sometimes needlessly doesn't deliver what they promise other times. It kind of makes sense why they don't because of injury or a title change or something or featuring a match on a variation of the match on TV where the rescuers are pretty burned out. You go with the different dark match afterwards. But but I I. There's a balance between changing the lineup. And just not benefiting from from putting something out there that you're pretty sure you can deliver on especially just email blasts in the last couple of weeks. I mean it's a small thing but I I'm surprised. They don't have more a more organized way at a grassroots level like annex t for live events of trying to capture people's emails and and get them to so they can contact them when it comes to town next give them some of that information and a link to buy tickets but that said and xt's full budget and full revenue is so tiny now in the big scope of the corporate wwe with the money. They're making in super show now and I mean just this Thursday show from a profit standpoint is probably like you know ten years. I'd have to do the math. Maybe I'm way off in one hundred years but ten years of annex t revenue coming in in just one show and Saudi Arabia so sometimes they can get complacent in that way to as much as triple h wants to show growth and succeed you hit. It just feels like okay. You can do the email thing. You can social media. There's plenty of ways to get the word out late at the very least to try to. Just get a better walkup. This showed me is inexcusable. Though the fact that it was the tenth anniversary and if nothing else whenever you knew you were going with this match. And whatever the title change occurred he could announce hey at the tenth anniversary show. We're doing keith. Lee Defending North American title against Finn Valor. Right there. A fact that it's a tenth anniversary show and your advertising that match. I think there's going to be an audience goes. I need to see this and its tenth anniversary. Who knows there might actually be a title change? This is different. Yeah Yup no no. I agree every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on W. Torch Daily Cast Dot com hosted by me W. Torch columnist Greg Parks each week. I'll welcome a CO host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling taking your calls and emails. You can listen. Live most weeks beginning eight PM Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impact pay per view. We go on the air at the conclusion of that pay per view. You can listen live but of course the full shows available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit P W torch daily cast dot com and click the livestream linked to find the next scheduled live. Show link search. Pw Torch Apple podcasts. Or Your podcast. App to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday. P W torch daily CAST DOT COM. Let's talk about the live event. A little bit a crowd that again did not resemble is wide a swath of demographics as a WWe. Rar smackdown pay per view. Or how show that? We've gone to more closely resembles to me in h crowd that I've seen over the years in the Minneapolis. Saint Paul Market. I think that's the case you know around the country and exte- draws fans who are not necessarily going because it's the biggest and most colorful star from the bigger shows and the bigger arenas. They're not there to see their see. Generally smaller wrestlers advertise wrestlers have really good matches with storylines that are booked a little more based around personal grudges and title aspirations rather than some of the more sports. He stuff on Ron smackdown. But boy were. They weren't at the product and they. There's a generosity too in the sense that this is so nice because it's different than fifteen years ago for shows like this. There's not there aren't fans out to ruin it or or hijack the show in a negative way I mean there's a scattered here and there but or given the referee hard time you know some people might or calling calling in Ballard Fergal to make sure he knows what you know Israel right yes but for the most part people are reacting organically and in line with the story lines which to me is a sign of the fans changing a little bit from what was once a rebellion against the previous era. And everything has to be you know. Look through the Lens of that context but but also part of it is annexed. Aegis gives that audience what they want but that audience isn't big enough to sell out of Roy Wilkins Auditorium. Um It's not enough to sell three four five thousand tickets in this market after visiting a few times and after being on USA network and having been valor as a big name in the promotion that people might assume would be on the show. They you know if they didn't see a lineup But it's still a it was a really good product fin valor one of the biggest reactions of the night. It stands out just because he was mashed number five before intermission and was the was the big star at that point in the show to come out and there was a buzz in the building when he came out the uncle. Bel Air at the second biggest pop and the first part of the show Jason. Yeah yeah she was really over and it really impressed me wasn't too big for A. She wasn't that type going. Oh Gosh this is great. I can't believe they're cheering formula. I mean she expected it and she just kind of owned the space like she started around. It felt real natural. Just just kind of right on the show and just give a couple roundabouts on it Cova can Damian. Priest was the opener it felt like a match between two people who are are capable of being carried to a good match but when you put them against each other. There's a lower ceiling and they worked hard. It was good. The crowd is into it. I'm not saying it was a bad match but I think it had a lower ceiling terms the athleticism. I felt like some of the sequences. You could see being constructed before your very eyes before they pulled them off and so I think they're both better against somebody who's just better than them like keithly. Who is has is the next level in terms of a big guy or smaller wrestlers who can create more movement around him. What was your takeaway from that match? I think that's a fair assessment. I liked the match but I do think that's. That's very fair. Yeah so then. After that we had Bianca Bel Air defeating Kate. Carter in about seven minutes on your thoughts on that bellairs star. I mean she really owned that place she was. She was so good it just in terms of working the crowd. Her eye grumbled about it. Last time I was on her dance to. The ring didn't feel as choreographing person as it does on. Tv If she shook things up or if I mean I think it's still the same thing on television and that's just a little thing that irks me that I wish they'd kind of interesting general be less corrupt with some of those things but I think she's great. I I think just seeing the phone still going to annex t show even though they are a third brand now I mean you know the Bianca Bel airs time there is probably limited especially with her husband being on the main roster and just to see her it days before she's about to have this big match with Sherwood Flare. Her career is definitely trending upward and it was a lot of fun to see her in ring at that level with in a small venue with the fans going as crazy as they were for her. Yes Yup I all that and then Dexter loomis against Rick Bouquets. You're you're to two distinct characters on opposite ends of the spectrum. Yeah okay so can hawkins name needs to come back? No that's half the fun and I know with. Aws Getting back into this. They need to take ownership that that one you don't I mean okay. Let's Boogie and makes the jumped AWA someday realistically. Is it going to be a huge deal? Are you going to? Oh my gosh. We should trademark then probably not so it gives name at number one. I mean it was fine. It's I mean I think you can see why bold guys aren't getting a lot of television time If any I kinda liked the loomis character I wish it wasn't so obvious with naming him. Dexter Lummus like okay. This is dexter just in case you didn't know this is the wrestling version of Dexter. I that part you know. We can see the Gimmick for what it is and it just feels a little too blunt But I I like Sam Shaw initially in his running impact wrestling. He's now detriments and they just kind of went way over the top with it. I don't think we have to worry about that as much in annex t but I don't know what you'd do with Associated Pathak character and exte- either. I agree although I if I ever have a neighbor. I don't like I want to hire dexter loomis to just walk around my yard and and then look in the direction of their house if I want them to sell because he or justified just want to creep him out because he's he is. He is believable in character. Walking around although the music is a big part of it so he'd have to blast blast his theme song as he walked around the neighborhood to add to the effect. I'm hoping the NWEA has like the video footage of him. He did all the voice over work for the ten pounds of gold early on. Yeah I'd love to see him like to find out that he actually did. That will in character sleepy looking his face. While near Ratings Joni completely normal. Yes yes then is the Coda kyw Raquel Gonzalez against me a Yemeni peak in Knox What's it out on this one? I thought it was like a really good women's tag match. I mean it was well. Constructed executed good good energy personalities. Were were strong. The crowd responded some good at crowd interaction which I think they could do. More of an show so this is Your thoughts teagan stood out or I'm Jay back. Dakota's stood out in a big way. Dakota was really fun. We had really good seats and just listening to her. Interact with the crowd. It while staying in character was good but just as she just put her and Gonzales together again. And if you didn't know that you soon they'd been they'd been together for months because they just had it down with. Kai hiding behind her a behind the bigger Gonzalez a different points. I have really enjoyed going back to the beat down. One of the best beat downs in years as she did on. Teagan and I've enjoyed the not the matches that they've had together but have been kind of guardedly optimistic about Dakota as a heel long-term like what do you do with her coming out of this and this tells me that she gets it she's GonNa be really good and this is going to be a fun act with the two of them. Yes Yup I agree. Then often ballard and Keith Lee for the North American championship finish. You're not surprised by that if you're GONNA have keithly retain the title. And you don't WanNa have been ballard loose clean even at a house show. I'm I'm fine with that one about thirteen minutes. Dominic Jakovic got involved in this at the end And then did a little fist bump with Keith Lee. But there's a little bit of tension there. Can we trust each other Your your thoughts on that match. I can't sandwich overwhelmed because I'm in my expectations. Were just really high. They met them. The finish didn't finish kind of just let the air out of the room. But it's you know it's what you do. Our friend dot catch more just made that exact pointed that finished. Just kinda deflated. But I don't know what else you do on a house show. I mean you can come up with different finishes but the end result is going to be the same and they're not GonNa do it Clean Pin I. I just didn't expect it and so I I enjoyed the match for what it was it belt big time to see those two guys in the ring together because it's something that I don't think we've seen on television yet and so it was cool to see but when all is said and done I mean that's just kind of like those cool to see but it's not something that stuck with me just because of the finish if you'd like to hear this show without ads employees interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a peterbilt torch. Vip member got about a dozen other podcast the week that I host that our VIP exclusive. And you get the weight color podcast during the week with the ADS and flex removed all on a separate feed exclusively for VIP members plus tons of other podcasts that are VIP exclusive access to our full archives of podcast dating back to two thousand four which includes post pay per view roundtables. Dating BACK TO LATE. Two thousand four also access to our full archives thousands of podcasts. Over fifteen hundred back issues of. Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter. That started at all at for access to our website and more check out full details at GW TORTURE VIP Info Dot Com that's P. W. Torture VIP Info Dot Com to get full details and then jumped sign up for him. It's mobile friendly. Desktop friendly in two minutes you can be a VIP member show support for US. And we'll give you a lot of return including a streamlined. Listening experience on your iphone or android device with the ADS unplugged removed. Go check it out. Pow TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM so At the University of the show three matches left to talk about since Radin mission. Let's pause and set the table and introduce ourselves. We're pretty deep in the show to do that. This is the way Keller pro wrestling. Podcast especial Tuesday flagship edition of the program with the Saudi Arabia hosted super showdown. Coming up on Thursday. Interrupts are scheduled a little bit in terms of how how we normally record so. We're doing an early flagship. This Week Jason. Normally joins me every third Thursday? Every three weeks on Thursdays. But he's here on Tuesday this week and Jason Powell of pro wrestling dot. Net is who? I speak of my co-host today Jason. Welcome a great to be back. Thanks for joining me and got a lot more to talk about. We're going to talk about super showed up. We'll talk about Wrestlemainia ramifications coming out of super showdown and the latest various rumors. True or false changed or speculative about where we might be headed with some big matches whilst talk about revolution coming up on Sunday. I'm looking forward to that More than super show. I must admit although I'm I'm more intrigued by a couple of things in super showdown than usual. So we all that and last night's raw and mortar talk about so let's heck let's just and we got some email questions to if we have time so we'll get to that. Let's let's go back to the annex t show after intermission Kushida versus camera and grabs Conforto. This cameron grimes. Is Someone that Bruce Mitchell? Person Towards senior columnist has been talking about a lot for years just seeing his work up close at the mid. Atlantic in North Carolina Grinds did some work for impact. That didn't have a ton of impact but in annex t I like I like what I've seen so far seeing him in person kind of like Bianca Bel Air. You can tell he's sort of that. He is not as it doesn't come across as him putting on a gimmick like is sort of has the demeanor that. I've heard he has and have seen on television but I hadn't seen him in person before which is I'm good. I'M NOT INSECURE. About how good. I am and I'm going to go out and have a really good match and eventually you'll catch onto Hobo like and I think it works for him. He ended up getting pinned by Shida but are tapping out. I should say which I shouldn't have surprised but only going seven minutes. I was a little surprised by how quickly the TAPA came but they kept the show at a tidy two hours forty minutes and so ultimately I mean I think that's a good length for a live event that's round the length. I think they should always aim for. I don't think it should be shorter than that much. But they can go. Maybe fifteen minutes longer Max but I think coming up to three hours is good. I would have enjoyed five more minutes. I guess the long way of saying this but it was good. And your thoughts Jason. This is the first show in recent in a long time. Actually that I've like when they announced this is your main event was like Oh wow already. I never feel like that watching watching on TV either. So that was cool. Yeah I think the length of the show and left you wanting more I mean. That's what a good show does. And as far as the matches concern. I'd love to see those guys get you know a good a good link takeover match because I think they work well together. Grimes just ends out as a guy that one. He's in there doing his thing. He's not thinking about it so he can. He can interact with the crowd at different times. Where a lot of times interaction for some of the younger wrestlers will come at time. When they're they're not in the middle of doing something there you know there. There's kind of a break in the match and they'll turn and look to the crowd that sort of thing and totally understand with him and he just tell it's he's a natural or he's really worked very hard to polish to learn his craft and just be as polished as he is and he's in the RECU sheet Who's really good as well. Kushida just looks so young. I didn't expect that. Yeah Yeah does yeah. I'm with you two more. Both of them in longer matches whoever whoever whoever gets called up whenever I do think that these are two to especially cameron bribes in terms of untapped upside personality. Wise in the environment is somebody that I think they can end up leading on near the top of the car and so I think they they should protect him to some degree losing at seven minutes because she'd doesn't shows he's not a big party right now but again it's a it's a house show before he gets a big push if come his then. We had our rear Ripley Against Chelsea Green with Robert Stone of the Robert Stone Brand Ripple. Getting the win here Ripley again jumped out to me as a star just. She just owned that room. She seemed to when she brought up. It's a big thing with me lately. She brought a just a sense of joy to her job. She really seemed to be glad to be there. And and actually in the moment and not just sort of going through the motions. And that's something that I think. Some wrestlers who have been pushed hard in recent years. Don't show it feels more manufactured with something natural there that she has but it also was backed up with with just a vibe that she gave off that this is something I love and then she went delivered the right. She's definitely aced one of the top stars or this brand. I mean I would put her just as far as upside. I mean ahead of anybody else. In annex t with the possible exception of Keithly I would include Matt Riddle. I don't know how they feel about him. If they're ever GONNA make had the confidence to make him a Wrestlemainia headliner type. I hope they do. I don't know how they feel. We're Li I think they see that Ripley. Certainly has it. She special she is and it's been so long just I'm so happy I wash. Those may young classics just to see her. Go from playing when she. I think you're one. She kind of had this blonde bombshell kind of looked to her and when she came back with this new look for for the second version. Like Oh yeah yeah I mean it was just a dramatic change and it was just like this just feels so much more different than what everybody else is doing. This is gonNA stand out this. This is a good move for her Jason Let's have you plug your website and your podcast. I am taking a risk by saying this because it is not in the can but excited about this interview. Yeah look for Une Wednesday afternoon. Hopefully if it's not there Wednesday afternoon you know something went horribly wrong the NWEA. Stu Bennett formerly known as Wade Barrett tonight is scheduled to make his return to the show. The last time I had to on. He was promoting a movie and I was so getting shouted at by the woman from I. Think the production company or something that I wasn't going in but she didn't want a lot of wrestling questions. I don't have those limitations. This time. Russia's very nice lady but Yeah it was like He doesn't want to answer that. Okay so this time around. It'll be thirty to forty five minutes of wrestling talk and I'm sure we'll check in to see what he's doing in his film career but I- it'll be mostly wrestling talk really looking forward to that is a free weekly. Podcast just do a search for pro wrestling boom on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast and once you find it subscribe. I usually have a mostly interview. There are some times we'll have a guest on and we'll have a conversation kind of like wait and I aren't today but mostly interviews on that show and so just a research again for pro wrestling boom wherever you get your podcast. And then on pro wrestling dot net the site is updated it frequently as possible. And we have live coverage of all the major papers and television shows including raw and exte- aws smackdown and then just kind of underlay reviews of all the other television shows throughout the week and then the pay per views of course will be doing live coverage of the wwe super showdown event. And that'll be Thursday. Eighty W revolution on Saturday night and we also have audio reviews available of those shows for our dot at members and that is the version of pro wrestling dot net if you're interested in the AG reversion and hearing all of audio content and believe me there's a ton I simply visit. Pw membership dot net. And if you have any questions on anything I just threw out. You feel free to reach out to me on twitter at pro wrestling net Jason. I don't know if you market this but you are the king of Wikipedia when it comes to being the source for all things major events and professional wrestling like if you go to Wikipedia and look up an event. It's like Powell Comma Jason Powell Comma. Jason Burnett Com Jake progressing dot net dot net. If wikipedia is to be trusted. You are the most trusted voice. In chronicling professional wrestling history will always shave John wikipedia. It must be true. Actually share that with my tongue in cheek but in this case I'll take it. I know I actually had no idea this. Go to any recent event and look and it's just like you're you're ninety five percent of the sourcing for pretty much everything so for that. That's crowd sourcing indications of timeliness credibility thoroughness track record. So yes yes. I was tough. Sit next to it. The show I mean people just looked right past me and all the women were coming up to you angel. Yes Yep there you go shopping like that. Yeah all right cool. Aloha torch fateful this is Kelly wells host of PWG talks an xt every Thursday. You can hear me and my gang of idiots Tom. Style share thoughts from the live tapings and Torch Recap Bernini Limburg as well as a rotating cast of guests covered the matches and events in annex t live on USA network search. Bwi torching and apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire torch daily cast schedule at PW torch daily tasks dot com cheers. Then we had the main event tomorrow Champa Velveteen Dream Browser Weights against undisputed era. Colorado Adam Cole Bobby Fish Roderick strong of course went nearly twenty minutes really good night. Everybody was over and this was a just a really really satisfying main event. Jason go I in terms of elaborating on what you liked it lets out. Oh I mean how crisp it was. I mean for these guys to be in their eight man tag. I mean I know they did a six man tag the night before but things seem so seemless they bred. Usually when you get a bunch of guys in there that I. I don't know how many times they've done this around the loop or how much had been rehearsed or anything. But it didn't seem like it. It's just easer eight Bros Especially I mean not to take anything you just. Undisputed era has done this sort of thing and they work so well together. I was just really fun to see that much star power in one ring You know just in one match like that. It was just a really cool way to close out the show. I yeah it's the one of the things I thought. Velveteen dream had starpower put a dent. I was expecting expecting but I was. I was looking to evaluate whether he really jumped off the page in the way that say Bianca Belair Rea- Ripley Keith. Lee All did because I kind of brush pass Keith Lee but he also had kind of that Bianca Bel Air Star power The confidence that camera. Grimes had exuded. I mean Keith. Lease always had that Sometimes to fall from what I understand behind the scenes but and and he had he had it seemed like he was just. There was a real love of his job in what he was doing. And so that that came across Dream during didn't give me that vibe. A strong he seemed like someone who has a slight. It's always been a challenge. It's always been the case for. He's overcome it at key times and so I'm not down on him but he. I was expecting the possibility being blown away by his presence. And I've seen him in person before but this felt like he got lost in the crowd like being Anna being one of eight people in the ring. He didn't jump out. I think he jumped out and that he looked different than everybody else in a variety of ways and his character. He's got much more distinct character if you're just looking at it but he didn't care about off the page to me as like. Wow this is a star boy. They build around him. They're set again. He was good but it didn't jump off the page in the way that Keith. Leeann Rear Ripley in particular. How what was your impression? I felt like it was there during the entrance for sure and I mean. The crowd seemed captivated by that he was very over and then the match started it. And I didn't really I I guess. It didn't feel as heated between him and Roderick strong as it should given the recent story lines when they were in the ring together so I mean it was interesting that he was gone before. Everybody else I don't know if that's by design. They don't want his character out there doing the handshakes and sell fees as much as the others. I'm I'm not sure or just decided. Okay I'm going backstage now But I thought he did stand out. I found myself being drawn to him just to see what he was doing and keeping an eye on him. I was doing that with others to but I there is something about him but yeah I think it's a notch below the others that you mentioned. I think that's fair. Yeah Notch Below Matt Riddle for that matter yes. Yes are as far as his teammates. Go I mean Pete. Don's fun I mean. It's just you know kind of you know grumpy serious humorless in a way that self-aware and fun but I thought matter it'll One of the one of the fun moments of the show was when a fan had assigned. That had the Bobby Fish tongue-twister on it and marital it'll couldn't have been more genuinely tickled unhappy by that. I mean I mean it was like a kid who got the gift he wanted for Christmas. He he couldn't wait to show it off to be done. 'cause they were both on opposite sides of the rain shaken hands with fans on their way and he was like be like just look it. Does he was so excited to show him that. At least one person thought that was cool and fun but yeah They were fought tomorrow. Champa took the lead in the post-match anniversary speech in and deserved earned that that leadership role is not the character of dawn. It's enough character of Matt riddle although he coulda pulled it off better than You know he would have been next in line. Velveteen Dreamed Kinda show. That leadership is kind of WEIRD FOR HIM TO BE MR team player. You know his stick in part is a little bit self absorbed and and even as a baby face so tomorrow champions came across as as a likable leader. You can understand him. Being Locker Room leader being perceived as such that was just And in the ring it was a good performance on the baby. Fae Side of things. It was interesting to see how they all play off each other when they were all sharing space. Yeah I agree and Champa definitely belong in that leadership role. I thought his Promo afterward was saw. Just going over the ten th anniversary part of it. I think he has the voice of an angel as I told him at ringside when he was walking back. And you go see for yourself. They did tweet that out. Be Prepared to hit the mute button. I get a good laugh. You just said. It's not his strong point in and got a good chuckle over that one But Yeah I think Champa is eighty seemed like he was over as much as anyone in that show. Two people love Tomasso Champ. I it's crazy to think of where he was at during that feud with been with Johnny Gargano and just how much heat he had compared to where we're at now. I didn't know the fans would forgive him. That quickly completely. I think the time away with the neck injury kind of changed everything. Yes Yup and with an annex t crowd just being really good at what you do for an extended period of time can win can can cause to be predisposed to like you. To The undefeated are just are great. I mean they're great individually together. I mean I don't know if there's been a better. He'll for some in terms of chemistry that they have with one another. They're all similar in size and body type but they they all have individual personalities. Colorado as the guy who you want that solo came on the ice. Oh Cam where you're just following them around. He's just I mean. He took so many spills to the floor during the match in front of us. And he's just he's just constantly in the moment from the second he walks out onto the stage to every moment of the match even when there's action going on in the ring he's just arrived to watch Adam Cole when he gets in the ring in Colorado. I think one of the best in based on the feedback I get. I would call him underrated in terms of how just really really good. He is definitely I mean is is right near. I mean right in that top tier of workers. I just don't think he gets enough acclaim because I think his personality and character isn't one that presents itself to be taken as seriously as Adam Cole. For instance or Okada Omega whoever I but he's he's just right there and but Adam Cole when he got in that ring it it's just I won't say it's another level of Colorado because different different. There's some variations in their style. But Adam Cole in person up close I mean he's just a he's different than Shawn Michaels. But when you see Shawn Michaels up close and I got to see Shawn. Michaels closest Awa early in his career was the midnight rockers with Marty Jannati and it's a similar vibe. I mean you just knew. He was something special that the ring was made for him and that was his home and Adam had that. I'm such a fan of running the ropes. Hard it's just a thing that to me. It makes you run those ropes. Yes I did. Yeah and I love that because the bouncing off the ropes thing when you just halfheartedly with some other ropes. I think it's the biggest blight Chris Jericho's great matches is how half-hearted and I think it's a Lucia thing halfheartedly. He whips people into the ropes and runs the ropes. I think it just looks totally fake it takes matches. Coal doesn't do that. I respect wrestlers. Who Go to the trouble. Understand the optics of how bad it looks when you just lightly sort of lead arrest towards the ropes and they have to run hard enough to look like they're actually bouncing off and so little things about to be about goal and that's one of them. I mean that's one thing that jumps out to me in particular because it's a pet peeve of mine but I was so I've just like that's a little touch in his selling and his kick outs. He lists his shoulder before three. Like just all the little things that a lot of guys who think they're good because they can do dives and complex spots this awesome chance. It's that detail work that he's so clean and Chris Bond along with being a great athlete and a really good. He'll so I I mean I don't want to spend as much time on on fish and strong but I respect their work to fit in really well too and deserve praise. So just big props speeded era and in particular O'Reilly and Cole but certainly not at the expense of of the other two it. It'll be interesting to see whenever the group implodes. If the the obvious is turn Adam Cole. But I don't know that you have that I mean Kyle O'Reilly is a really good. He'll I think when they if they if and when they do. This O'Reilly needs to be the baby. He had that brief running and I just don't think they got everything out of them if they could have because I think they had an inkling that he was leaving he. He's versatile as good as he is is a he'll he those kicks and everything that he does or cold. Just to be clear I'm Kyle Riley now Yeah him becoming the baby of the ONCE THEY SPLIT. I think he and call. I mean we've seen how good they can be together and ring on. I think that's the direction they need to win win. That time I wouldn't rush it. There's no need to right now. Things are great odd but Riley really did for the people who haven't seen it He really does have versatility to to play that baby face role. Also I think I think rather can be ought to have a run as an xt champion as a heel or face. But I'm with you. I think there's something about him that I think he has a higher. He has the upside. That Johnny Gargano had as a baby face but A personality that I don't think fans would would embrace turning against us as sort of happened with Gargano right. Yeah it's he kind of. Ah from what I've seen with O'Reilly is a baby base. He will play the MA stuff up a little bit more. He's very believable when what he does And and it's the the personalities not quite there or at least it wasn't when he was in ring of honor like it is when he's a he'll so that would be something needs to work on. But I do think Adam Cole is definitely more of a complete package. I think you know what you're going to get. From Adam Cole baby-faced compared to a Riley may have that one hole in his game. You know how good how good the promos going to be And just how strong personality so? I guess to. Potential question marks about O'Reilly compared to coal. I'm rich van host of the deep dive with Rich Fan. A weekly part of the torch daily Cast Lennon pictures search. Pow Torch Apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe every Saturday at six PM Eastern. I dive in with guests for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related. WanNa hear about the influence of historical figures like big kettering. He led we got. You WanNa hear about how crazy the marine movies got. We are on it. No topic is too big too small. So if you want to dive in with this call in live or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch daily cast schedule at W. Towards daily Casper Dot Com. All right. Let's not let's turn the PA- ANYTHING ELSE ON SHOULD S. I mentioned this in my review. I wish show showing press by just the referees and I'll just what a great job they did always staying in character and we've all been to. How shows over the years where you get a light moment? The referee or clowning around with the wrestler. Not a character a little bit there was none of that and I could be wrong. I enjoy some of those moments. It's not a big deal but I was so impressive. Just from from the start of the show to referees and it just you if you just watch them you thought they were working illegitimate. That's how you're working orders Is insisting that the hold the tag ropes which I love and just all the things that they were telling the wrestlers it really. It's obviously only the folks at ringside are going to be able to see that but it goes a long way. I think it's great Great Point to make and it's part of what I respect about the product. Is I think the people who collectively are in charge and guide the wrestlers and create the framework and and review the details. They see wrestling similar to me. I I I wish I could remember the context of the story but somebody I think somebody on twitter said some days the only people who understand me or the people who make Volkswagen commercials and because it was like you know. There's just things like that where you watch commercial or you see something and you go okay. I know it's marketing on it. But those people get me there there and that's how I feel the next. It's from a product standpoint. There's things I like better about other products. But but in terms of the detail work in the things the straighten. Your tie type details like how the referees like you just pointed out there just consistently attentive to that in ways that other companies are not and people who who listen to our use of aid w dynamite stuff bothers me with Awa dynamite. They don't have that they don't have that kind of attentiveness to some of those details and they either because they don't think they matter they don't notice it does take me a little out of things and it's personal preference and I personally kind of enjoyed dynamite more than annex t for my job and covering it because it it's lecture what it is and the highs are higher and the lows are lower. So it's all all of that but annex t is so smooth and and so refined and just a really good product and it's fun to see it live compared to on TV so it was a fun show to attend and a firm based on even your example. The referees which I'm glad you brought up that the the the the attention to detail work makes for a better product and I. I mean they're batting true for the last four. Take great really enjoyed the house showing the live experience the last TV shows have been disappointed by their standards. Yep Yep I agree I agree. And that's part of you. The detail work can be there. But if you don't have a one the big match setting and into just their mouth. It's a whole conversation in terms of what what makes an annex t weekly TV show good versus not good. I mean what is your take on that Jason? Like what is the key ingredient missing or the key thing the stick in the spokes that throws off a shelf for you. I don't think they they just didn't do a good job on the go home. Show Dave every match. Got Attention but it wasn't hot. Go home show and so expose takeovers really strong. I can't wait to see what they do coming out of takeover and they push back some of the more interesting things and you can do that when you're raw smackdown. I don't think he can really afford to do that. When you're going head to head and you're losing about where they W I'm not saying you need to just throw everything out there at all times. But it wasn't underwhelming show like if they had been able to pull it off and save some things for the next week and the overall show was really good great but they didn't and so it just kind of felt like okay. We're going to have to wait until next week to see Finn Ballard and we have to wait till you hear from Johnny Gargano and there was something else that I stood out is like Oh. They're not giving us any of that tonight. And so when you take away some of those core things and those core people the product was just it was. It wasn't terrible just wasn't memorable. Yeah no I think that's fair all right. Let's let's pay chocolate super. Show it on coming up just a couple of days here. starts at a weird time of noon eastern nine. Am Pacific Dwayne. Every pay per view should start kind of Nice one to you. I mean well I'll go for for I'd go for one eastern. You know kind of football Sunday. Sure I'll start but I would not be against that but I mean it's just realistically Sunday afternoons our own twenty weeks a year or whatever by the NFL and although Sunday nights are too why not you know what I mean. I'm just saying weekday. GimMe a weekday afternoon. I'm just being completely self what I was thinking. I won't be against a paper view happening around you know in the afternoon. They can go to hell if ever run against a Viking game other than I get it on Sunday and Monday nights but if they ever do this like now well if they do they would be going against more football games than just one but by going Sunday nights they're going up against. Typically you know a marquee match up but it's not as likely to be your home team so that that that plays into but anyway we more to talk about then. I think the family she by WWE. Because Tony Kahn's already said they'll never run up to the NFL and that works for me. Yes yes all right. So a super showdown. Are you looking forward to this more or less or the same and why then other super than other Saudi shows? I can't wait for this to be over. I'm not into this at all. It's not even the politics it's just. They've done a terrible job of building up to this event. I mean there are some minor intrigued to see what they do with the WWe Universal Championship. It's not a terrible line of just I I think when you have. Those previous show is kind of hanging overhead. And knowing how on eventful they were. It's hard to be excited by this. Especially when the bill was so just I guess scattered it was could we? We got to promote super showdown. But we have to also promote elimination chamber. Because we're morons and we put these shows like ten days apart i. I didn't get into this. They didn't sell me on this. I don't give a damn about Ricky shamrock listener. Sure it'll be fine. Wants to bell rings hope but just awful. I am not into this show at all. I think the I'm intrigue from a newsworthiness standpoint of how much they give ricochet speaking of ricochet is this just ricochet goes in hits a couple of spots leads nerve staggers a bit and then Ricochet leaps Adam off the top rope or springboard and he catches them and do they give ricochet a kick out or not That sort of A. That's a big thing to give to somebody. If you're an lessner opponent and I don't think ricochets GonNa get it and my over under on length is sadly probably two minutes But I'm not super sure of that but I could see what ricocheted gets is causing. Listener to stagger and then boom eats five and it's over Is is that what you're expecting or do you think they want to protect ricochet more than that inasmuch as losing the listener quickly as damaging? Because it happens to you know a number of people they I mean I honestly I hate to be wishy washy going either way. I mean it. Clearly they build us up to be a joke so maybe they feel like we need to give this a little more time can make ricochet look good. I you know we know what the end result is going to be At least ninety nine percent. Sure that there's there are people convincing themselves at her. They're going to do a quick title change and put the title back on Brock. Which always happens. No matter how lopsided match looks I if they build up pay per somebody out. There convinces themselves. I think there's like a less than one percent chance of that taking place and I I mean I'd like to see them make ricochet but they have nothing to back up the character with so even if he goes out there and has this storm making performance and and goes twenty minutes with Brock. Leisure and just comes up short. That's nice but he's still a nerd. That's a really bad character that he's playing. Yeah and that's been an issue with him is he's a guy who is not quite John Morrison but like a guy. With this physique that's made for the business athleticism less weight for the business and then with Moore said at least it's quirky enough. You can sort of market it in a way. That Morrison might not be self aware their marketing But you know there's a quirkiness there. It's held them back but it's also kept them relevant in that he's not just he's bland away that's interesting in. Quirky in a way that doesn't turn people away but it keeps them from really engaging people in his ring styles ricochets got a much more engaging in style than Morrison and a natural athleticism. That's a notch better. I mean I don't know they're both incredible. But yeah the the Gimmick and the personality just isn't isn't there and I don't. I don't really know what the you know what I would do to fix. I mean what would you? Is there anything? Come to mind when you watch when you watch them that you would do to market him better. Do you think it's hammered? You think it's how he's he's being produced. I think he's being produced I. I don't think he's being himself. I think they they envisioned him as this guy from podunk. Kentucky is the usual smalltown boy makes good thing and I don't think that's his personality. I don't know the guy but I mean just things I've heard like there's an athletic arrogance to him. At least you know maybe someone that's been beaten out of him in the WBZ system. I don't know but I would kind of play into that not saying tournament. He'll but let this guy you know. Be Confident about himself. Not just so happy to be there. I am and that's the way he plays this all the time. It's a minor upgrade over superheroes a real. But it's still really bad. Yeah Yup need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. Podcasts will come join me out for over the progress Paradise Appear Torch. Vip AS WE BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and chose from around the world be at the US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place. Residence passed in the paradise to. We've done fun. Historical shows such as the. We Love Lighter series celebrating glorious career of Jewish Thunder. Like on our. I was there when shows where guests will join me talk about a classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety and you can expect lots of it at the Pro Rest Paradise Detailed Peter Roof torch. Vip subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available at Torch VIP Info Dot Com and yes old VIP. Podcasts ARE COMPATIBLE WITH POPULAR PODCAST. Apps ON IPHONE and android devices or you can stream directly from our ad free. Vip Mobile Site C in the paradise. All right The Phoenix Goldberg. Is there a chance? If they're kind of cold on rains against fiend went really seen have had there been clue? Fiend rains yet at all. No not yet. No I'm and I think we all just assumed. Yeah well soon but could they extend Goldberg? Fiend in some former fashion could Goldberg. Get The win. And become champion in the fiend is going after mania or is there a controversial finish were. Gobert earns the second shot or do you see them for at least protecting Goldberg enough to put him into in or maybe have interference where Gobert splits off goes and does something wrestlemainia. Also that's significant. I think there is a chance that Gobert wins and goes on to face. Shayna range something else. I think they would look at that as being bigger than brains and wide. I'm hoping they're having second thoughts about putting that championship back enrollment. Because I think that's the beginning of the end again brim so yeah. I don't know I mean there is it's intriguing. I can't say either. Result is very appealing to me. Personally Yeah I'm not all that engaged. I think the whole idea of my son is in my son. I'm doing this for my son and your wrestling and Saudi Arabia. Just like come on you. Don't get you don't get you don't get to have it both ways. I mean if you work in Saudi Arabia. And you're already multimillionaire. Who's not just kind of at the mercy of being a fulltime fulltime contractor? And you don't want to ruffle feathers or get political so you just kind of do it. That's one thing but when you go out of your way to come back for that paid you try to spin it off as doing it for my son. I mean it's just it's a little rich is that I'd take something away from anybody who makes a special appearance for a Saudi payday. The there's a chance that Gobert gets a spear fien kicks out Gobert fix. It's another spear fien kicks out. I mean how many finishers has been kicked out south reviewed and others and then dismantle on and one-two-three Gobert payday and and runs. I mean is is that it could be a short match three three or four minutes of Hocus pocus and big spots and and they're in and out. I mean 'cause there's other matches that can go long a couple tae title matches. I think the two big match and then rain's Corbin can go along to sort of satisfy the fans who who as much as their fans with expectations they can well of the three one one big one on one matches rains. Corbyn in a cage can be the grand finale because of the cage and go longer and that gives a little more latitude to make the other two matches shorter. Yeah I I'm really hoping just based on this being a smaller card advertise matches. They kind of leave it that way. And they said doesn't turn out to be another six our seven hour extravaganza. We just don't need it and I the the car lineup especially with Goldberg in there it does kind of feel like that's where they're going. I mean watch me say that and find out when we're done today they're gonna add four more matches or something but I don't think so. I mean I'm surprised. We don't have a man sewer match. Maybe that something will happen with him but otherwise I don't even know what else she would do on this show so hopefully. It's going to be briefed. I I mean Goldberg and wide. Who goes over that needs to be kept the shortest possible? You can milk out some of the The kick outs and things like that. But I wouldn't go more than five minutes with bill. Goldberg it under almost any circumstances and I just I don't have the faith in him to pull that off. I know he was hurt. And the undertaker. Mashing look better in the mashed potatoes or whatever but stagg just do it and I think less is more with the wind in the ring to. Yeah Yup So there's some good rains. Corbin we we're going to get and I don't know if anyone's excited about it but it's not going to be awful. They're just going to be to McDonald's. Elliot's quarterback to quarter pounders cheese. It does the job. It's not spectacular. It's consistent it's fine and that's what they are and they're gonNa have that kind of cage match and it'll be fine but I don't think big talking point aspect reigns to win. The food is over and Corbin moves on to have many classical Dan. O'brien or something. You'RE A boy. I feel bad for the quarter pounder with cheese because that match is so overplayed. That's like I don't even know what burder I it's like a rain. Corbin is like a microwave hamburger from the gas station at this point. Get this over with. Please end this and they just blown because you know where they're gonNA end up in the elimination chamber together. Oh that's true. Yeah last time ever until ten days later. I have a soft spot for the microwave Burger from the convenience. Because I do that on. Some are great. I felt so independent. I ride my bike to seven eleven and I buy that that double cheeseburger. I can't remember what brand name it was. Deli Deli Fresher Kelly Express Mini Express. Yeah and then I would like microwave some French fries. I make my own fast food meal at seven eleven and it was just an exciting since you know. Fourteen years old riding the bike on summer break to heat up a burger and fries. I felt very independent. I didn't live near. She's match. Yeah they're pretty good. You know I think that a big Mac style bonding between the two PATTIES ANYWAY. But to me quarter to achieve. If that's your good burger we need to get more. Because they're drew much better burger experiences out there anyway. Let's see where were we don't forget the two-week Mountain Trophy? I mean my God would stop the symbol of of of what resilience and bone size. I can't remember what the what was the. What is it what does it? What does what does it stand for? I don't even know I didn't even know. I don't know why they're obsessed with trophies in Saudi Arabia. The prince must love is trophies. Yeah so I mean. This'll be a good end semi long match Gauntlet Match Ramos Stereo Andrade. Aj styles three really good workers. Avi Lashing are growing adding a little variety in terms of a a big man who were were decent and or truth a little bit of comedy and you know he can still do some move so I expected to be a nice match if they have J. Rey cross paths. That's going to be kind of a cool moment and underwriting it back in the mix He's he's good so I think it'd be good match. I think the same thing about the tag titles on new day and Morrison and Seth and Murphy and Against the street prophets those should be good matches to and Bailey. Naomi as I'm I it's a I'm interested if Naomi with her look and having some time away and coming back and getting a push if if she kind of looks like maybe she's McDonald's answer to freshen up the top of the women's division so anyway kind of blew through a Lotta talking points that I want to go back to the match I I expect. Aj To win two stages claim of being in line for a big match or overplay. What victory means that then leads to potentially undertaker match? Although the scene allies rumors probably aren't going to play out as as valid or actually occurring. And who knows what styles undertaker if there's different things at play right now yeah. I would think tanker. Jaeger styles makes sense. If you're undertaker you want somebody you can go in there and give you the best match possible. Aj's capable of that. I wish eight character were hotter. I still think he's a little too much of a goofball as a heel and it's not helping that he's aligned with two guys that were calling him out on his losses and now that they're all together he doesn't seem to mind when they lose every freaking master in other than the last time they were in Saudi Arabia. Basically he the fact. That Ray is in this match. Replacing rousseff is certainly an upgrade I it's a former appealing match. It's not a race have hater but it's just Ramos. Giulio is just so much better in the ring than Recep is and research out. I think with a back injury. Yes Yup so Bailey. Knowing I talked about that what what do you think of Naomi with her her new look and just it feels like time away gave her a chance to rethink things a little. It's not like she's completely different. is on a complete transformation but it does seem like there's some potential momentum here she can have a good match with Baileigh. I wouldn't rule out her winning either but she someone that maybe you look down. Brandon go that having hers. Women's champion might work better than what they've been doing. I think we've made it this for just sick with Bailey and lips okay. Somebody BE HURT. Wrestlemainia I but they do love their title changes right before Wrestlemainia for God knows what reason I'm more than anything. I'm just curious to see what the hell they're gonNA wear Just you know they're gonNA be covered head-to-toe. I can't even imagine how bright Niamey's gear will be a bright enough now when she wears what she does but the snowmobile sued or whatever. They're going to put them on. Put make them wear in Saudi Arabia. Yeah that's That's going to be very bright boy. Good twists in that analysis of what? How is Naomi in that in that situation that setting with those those assumed restrictions so new day? Ms Morrison expect. I expect they'll have a title change on the show just so this is a possibility of that. I think it's the most likely of title changes a little more than than Baillio me or anything else on the show. Your take on that Jason. I the way they've booked Ms Morrison lately. They've had them lose to Roman reigns of Daniel Bryan lost clean. Then I thought okay. Maybe they'll give them to win in this eight man tag. That last week didn't factor into the finish. My guess is that it's the it's the old our going to put the titles on them so we can. They'll be fine. I don't like to add. I wish they'd make them keep them strong. And I'm not saying they should have beat rains. Daniel Bryan but I think you could have gotten away with some sort of de cue to protect them and actually put them over either use os or new day in that eight man tag. But that's just the way they do things and so I mean there is a chance is just. They don't care about them. I mean they certainly seemed to be teasing us with another USOZ in New Day. Tag title match to but I would think yeah. There's there's probably going to be a title change on the show. This is the one that I have pegged. And then maybe the Universal title as well but this is the one. That kind of seems like yeah. They should do something here. Yeah Yup and the street prophets against Seth Murphy profits having a chance well especially Montas Ford having a chance to show what he can do against seth one on one on on raw last night your thoughts on this match and his. Is there a possibility that this is kind of crowning moment? Pun intended for for the street. Prophets to elevate them and and because they feel like it seems like okay. Let's get to it. What are they going to be eventually? There's going to be defined down if they're not consistently involved in against top guys with some signature wins. There should be a chance for signature. Went for that team. It's a signature win for him. I I don't think it happens here. I think that it may come eventually. They may be a transitional team if they fall in love is I think they're probably going to Andrade and Angel Garza's a team so I guess you could but I don't. I can't say that I'm really excited about this. One either I thought four and Rawlins. The singles match was good. I thought it was being a bit over hyped by people online just making. It seem like it was amazing action with it was good. They don't have the crowd and they lose the crowd every time they open their mouths lately. Murph the smurfs in the hell was that I know. I think there's a potential for the street. Prophets that really good high level in terms of their personality and their stuff. Happening that is is sort of not disqualifying. But but it's sledging up their their Their Memento they've taken their edgy way. Whatever edge they had annexed has gone with these bad Saturday. Night live sketch. And there's just not fun anymore. I think when left to their own devices they probably would be but I don't think that's happening. I mean we find out like no this. Is They have a lot of import. God help us but I I'd be very surprised. Yeah I know I agree although where are you on Montas Ford as a potential breakout singles? Act For though I heard you talk with I think with Brandon Leclair and mention his gear. I'm totally with you on that. I know you were kind of saying in perspective. That may not be on. It does stand out like I think it's just a you know the color scheme of the gear. A just really does make his legs look really really small and visually long long and spindly. Yeah Yeah Birdlife kind of thing going on. And if if I'm noticing that you're noticing that Lord knows Vince McMahon is you know we as being as he is and I do think Montas Ford has real upside but he needs to. They need to find those two characters again. I wouldn't be any any rush to do that but I think the talent level is there the competence and the poisonous there? But I think it's just GonNa take some time finding the right gear finding the right characters for these guys and I don't think they were far off and INEX- team but I can't say you need to go back and do everything they did with these guys annex t because. I didn't think that was flawless. Either I didn't think it was like so good that how can you? It's not Blake Bailey. Where it's just like. How do you blow this? It's not that but it's it. There's definitely room for improvement. Ngo would kind of take my time with it. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? 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Let's let's shift gears and talk about e w revolution the road to code against deb. J. Off has been a journey that people are GonNa Watch. They're gonNA remember for a long time. I mean going through some big segments including the big cage match moment last week. Your evaluation of Kodiak Jeff as a in terms of the hype and in terms of what it means for both cody and I'm Jeff. I think it's been an entertaining ride. I mean a bit confusing at times on the throughout the three stipulations and all of that. I think they need to do something on the go home. Show to really put some heat on. Mj Up again code. He's been through the ten lashes and that was he But wardlow delivered the most memorable one even though M J F delivered to kick the balls so it was like nine for him j. f. and then the memorable one big just belt shot from hell for more low and then cody gets by wardlow. And it wasn't like he took a lot of abuse in that Nash. She just got by him. So cody has all the momentum. And there is something you know obviously. Hey we WANNA see cody. Get his hands on. Mj would give us another reason. Why I think M J F hasn't felt enough like Roddy Piper in the sense of. Yeah that there's that there's a threat that cody threatened by him. This is more than like. There's a gauntlet that you have to go through that. You won't make it but em doesn't seem like he's someone that code should anyway fear and cody standing tall on the cage ellison black last night the idea was that the beat him up so he's weakened with was cody. I don't sense told the story that he went through this grinding gauntlet. He's weakened and now I'm jeff can rub together and say I got you so I'm curious tomorrow night. What the final cell is for this to frame it is it. Just yeah code is going to destroy or is it a a sense that there is some some jeopardy with cody going into this match because I want you know cody's if people aren't paying attention and only saw cody and wwe. They haven't seen this journey to him. Being a embraced by the fan base as a top star. And you can make the argument pretty well. I think that he's the top star. Uw More than Moxley Omega. Take your pick Jericho. I would absolutely listen to counter argument to that too. I mean there's no it's close. It's some of it is just personal perspective. On what what you look for in who you like the most because certainly Mosley Jericho are right there. But that said you want cody Kamata. This was the momentum but you also want to protect them Jeff can be. I think more Roddy Piper than Chris Jericho in terms of what he should pattern himself after an in an aspire to be and so you want to protect him to but you also want to give fans a satisfying payoff as this being a big match on the pay per view so I just the time for them to step up as as as bookers and show me that they you know long term plan and long-term planning with bad chapters on the way isn't good long-term planning with bad payoff at the end isn't good either and so I'm curious to see what they do. Not only tonight but of course. Sunday. It's I guess maybe I mean I think it's just. This is the direction they've chosen is to make. 'em JFK full of cody. That he's GonNa talk a big game in the closer he gets to the match the more. He's fearful I kind of wish. It was okay. Good luck and you made it through this. Let's go and Jeff wasn't backing down and made it can ultimately be revealed. It's because he had a plan and whether that plan is successful or not. It doesn't have to be that he's just all full of bravado but there was a moment when cody took the ten lashes and he he kind of had the damn it kind of a moment where he was hoping to get out of the match That it does kind of take away so it is all about seeing cody. Get his hands on this guy but I would think that the we'll see but I think that the right move to is to extend this viewed and let 'em go over somehow I know. Yeah so bring it on. Let's see what he's got what they have in mind Chris Jericho Jon. Moxley your evaluation of the of the hype for this and obviously we got tomorrow night yet to go in. So they can accelerate or extinguish some of the momentum but your thoughts on a similar story. Moxie going through some some battles three members of of inner circle to before getting to Jericho. How do you evaluate the hype and Moxley having Momento very good? I think they've done a really nice job with this. It's it doesn't feel like Wrestlemainia main event big or anything like that but it feels big and it builds like the challenger does have the momentum. And there's a good chance you're GONNA see a title change whether they have that in mind. I don't know but that's what you should be thinking going into. This title. Mashed at the baby based Challenger has the momentum and is going to win that championship and I think they've pulled that off so far. Moxley was worried about where they were. You know where he would fit in and if the VP's were not in the creative team we're not prioritizing getting him over in the way that he needed to get over in the first couple of months and I think they've got him on track you know. I don't think you need to do a lot with Moxley for him to get over. And you can kind of get in the way sometimes with both booking as wwe did because there's something about him that commands attention and his promos are authentic and what he does in the rain is is distinct and compelling so when you have all those ingredients plus just the star power being in the shield and that kind of goodwill with fans and star power and recognition going for them and. I think they've found the row for Moxie as Moxley showing himself to use someone who should be champion at some point. If not starting Sunday night or does he come across somebody who visits the main event and does that but is probably better off. In in personal feuds on the second or third from the top match most of the time I can go either way on this one. I think you can with the China on him. It'd be fine you. He doesn't need the title he is. He's as they coolness doing that. That people really connect to and so he doesn't have to have that championship. I don't think there'll be a huge backlash if he doesn't win the championship on this show so I mean I think you can but it's not necessarily it's a nice. I mean you much rather have the guy that no. He's ready he needs this now. There's nothing he's not ready but you need much rather have it be no. They have to go with this guy. As champion people are craving it that much. I don't send it to that extreme but I do think that he's very over and I think that again it's not a bad position to be in where you have that versatility. Yeah I agree. I agree I lean now towards him. Not being champion. But if he's champion don't have run with it either. Yeah when I say leaned that way I just think because I think he ended up with you end up with more if you give. He doesn't need the championship. And I don't think it will elevate him a ton from from where he is now but if he has a championship. I think he's a good face. The company that that might draw some some viewers to want to see the Moxley as the guy getting the push that they wanted him to get and wwe or maybe didn't know they wanted to get but now they like him even more apparently remember the days. When women's wrestling matches were relegated to the mid card dumping ground and treated like glorified intermission. You mean the era when it was only men in the top spots in the feds getting the biggest matches every night. Yeah vaguely seriously. Well we might have a long way to go really have come a long way baby. And that's why we started grit and glitter cast covering the best in the world of women's wrestling from the horsewoman. Wwe To the goddesses of stardom and everyone between each Tuesday. Emily myself and our team of guests. Correspondence talk the best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling plus interviews deep dies and discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women behind the scenes roles. Just Search Pete W torch in the podcast of your choice to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch David Schedule at W. Torch recast dot com all right so moving on to Kenny Omega and hang by and page against the Young Bucks for the Taking Championship. I don't know what they planned in terms of hangman page in the dynamic with the bucks in Kenny I think reality in terms of the crowd is responding and how the hangman page gimmick organically kind of taken on a life of its own is probably more interesting than what they had planned. I would be curious to know how would have gone if paged in just sort of a catch on with fans the way that he has your take on what they did. Last Wednesday was kind of arguing over. Who GETS TO BE THE ONE TO GET CREDIT FOR LIFTING Kenny Omega up? When he probably should've stayed sitting down he was. You know so. I'M OFF BALANCE AND OMEGA. Sort of shrugging off both but then standing with the bucks because page always decided kind of jumps off and does its own thing on worry on the story line and and what do you think is next you know. I watched being the elite this week and I don't always but just for some reason watch this week and that a segment at the end of that and the way it was framed was that Omega was mad at page for pulling him away from the you know that playing that game so it was like he considered page to be the one in the wrong. It wasn't like both both sides were in the wrong. The way I kind of took that A page was apologetic. The idea is that he alleges the best wrestler Noor Old the box of the best tag team in the world. He doesn't know where he fits into the elite and so anyways anyone's hammered again so they're still kind of playing up at. He has his drinking problem and he's kind of. Whoa is me that disappointed me. And hopefully it just a red herring and hopefully they have kind of changed their approach to this. They've been good about making some changes. And Hey I don't know what they have in mind. Maybe what whatever they do is. It's going to turn out to be great but I. I would hope that they are looking at this going man. This guy over and people are really reacting to him going out and drinking beers with the fans and things like that we need to. Let's let's play into that a little bit instead of going wherever they were gonNA go again unless you know they have this great idea so I I look at it. Like paged me. Has Potential breakout ability? Where if you turn him now and do the Scott whole drunk bid I I mean it's just a question of what they have in mind and and whether it be nearly as good as what. They're doing what they've kind of stumbled into with him. I think hangman page went from well. Yeah he was sort of a rising star for a while but turns out on the big stage. You just kind of Bland Cowboy Gimmick. Whatever just who is he what is he? He's not dynamic enough in the ring you know. He's not ricochet or John Morrison athletically. He's not tall. He doesn't jump off the page personality. Wise Keith Lee or velveteen dream. He doesn't have the national of being inmate events before like Moxley and Jericho. It's just like oh he's Kinda cody's just gravitas the legacy name and also the TV exposure. Oh that worked against cody. If you didn't rise above the mid card level that he was sort of add upper mid card to be there are a lot of things working against page. Just get lost in the mix and then something happened and when that's something happens you gotta you gotTa go with it. You know what I mean. Steve Austin against obvio- Vega didn't was not part of a Master Plan to turn Steve Austin into the big star in wrestling history. It was that's what they thought of. Steve Austin some. He's good hand in the ring with Saab Yoga and it turned then they ran with it. So I'm not saying page GONNA become stone cold because I think there's some good competition in Awa right now. More than Austin. Frankly had time that he rose up the card kind of blocked him from moving up the card. But there's something happening with page and I think it connects with aws target market. And I'm I'm curious to see if they cannot ruin it but also not miss accelerating it where it makes sense to to put some win behind the sales of wherever this going and there's something about a guy who who who puts beer ahead of petty friendship bickering and just wants to Kinda Cowboy Shit. I mean it's just that's that's the new Austin three sixteen on scale for. Aws they do this right and they really haven't done more with that. Maybe the broadcast. He was mentioned. It hasn't become like they haven't tried to make it a catchphrase and I'm kind of surprised. Well there's a happy medium between you know my Go-to line. We're Mike Ecole said. Pipe bomb throwing superstar punks pipe bomb. Promo and suddenly you. You Co opted it into something corporate and it lost it no longer felt like w running from it. In fact they're trying to get a slogan going for it they gonNA be carefully. Don't do that and I'm not sure you know for all of Excalibur strengths as an announcer being the cool guy who else get over a catchphrase. He's not in that. Regard cast could could help in that regard. Not Your Excalibur Ken. I think Shivani probably could if he doesn't late onto thick but part of it. Just let it organically go. It's more about finding ways for page to play into it and then maybe something yet video packages finding a way to accentuate it without looking like it's heavy handed marketing. Yeah if it was okay. He's saying it once every three weeks it'd be fine with that it doesn't have to be. Wwe where you have to say it every. Promo but again. I don't know that we've heard since. Yeah so what expect here. Where where do the belts end up? And what's the angle afterwards? If any or did I don't know and I liked that. It's a good feeling to go into this going on. There's a lot of different directions. This could go. I just want to see it. Play out and that's the feeling I have for this. Do you think the bucks as heels is where the most money as with them. You brought up last time so I've had a little more time to think about it. I mean I would hope they're not the type that while we've got a book coming out. We'd better than our Turner solves. He'll there they could. I think Kenny. Kenny has gotten off to a pretty rocky. Start W it's gotten better but he's one half of the TAG team champions and they're they're over it. It's a good story line. But he's not the Megastar. Daddy was in new Japan pro wrestling and that I think a lot of assumed he was going to be once Awa. Dynamite was up and running. Maybe he could be the one that turns in all of this. Maybe he's a little too. That's looking down as page lightens up. And he's not just a sloppy drunk like he's kind of like being the video. Where was kind of that? Seemed to be what they were going for is. Just you know he's just sad moby but if all maybe Omega so it's kind of looking down his nose at him for having fun. There might be way to do that. And you could do the same thing with the bucks to. I'm open to that. Yeah I'm intrigued by Kenny. As a heel in the bucks is a he'll I'm I'll vote for both of those before they try to turn hangman pay but if they can make it work and go he'll with hangman and keep the bucks and Kenny face. That's fine. I'm also not against having pages. Go do on break away as a baby face but do what you WANNA do with Kenny. The bucks probably faces too. I mean I don't think you have to turn somebody you can F- pages be his own guy and he's just he's just on a different wavelength in them and they part ways and that's not a big deal. I mean I'm okay with that too. Eventful something hot in mind. If there's something good to follow it up with that's fine too. The thing is I don't think they should feel pressured into doing a big angle if the best place for all three x land is as featured baby faces again sure featured heels and it is sort of like okay. You give up that moment that this is building too but if the moment is for people who've been fence being the elite pages like I'm going out on my own eyes and they're like good luck and he's like yeah guys we'll cross paths. I'm sure someday. And then that hangs heavy over the moment and you wonder where that when that happens and when it does it'll be a big deal but Y- page goes infused with jeff whomever and Kennedy goes in and infused with you do your thing which Erico and and the box do their thing against a top team and I mean they're all in a good spot. I just pray that it's not my God Adam Pages. The leader of the Dirk. Don't think that's where they're going but if itch hey I can be one of the elite or I can be the leader of some. I mean there is a story to tell there is just. Don't think it's a good one and I haven't seen enough from him. Promo wise to think that he can necessarily carry that role. No and it doesn't make sense right from Kabul Shit to a gimmick that people are sort of laughed at that. Has You know upper mid card ceiling even with hearty if he's the leader you know it's lower top card or upper mid card and I feel like there's something going on page that's more than that definitely fans are into him and they. I think they're shape this way again. Without knowing what they're thinking I think the safest approach is to just play into those cheers. That he's getting for celebrating with fans and being a fun loving guy rather than. Oh my God. He's drunk he's hammered. What are we going to do with this guy art so jake? Hager getting in the ring against Dustin Rhodes. I like this to what I think it could be. A decent match dozen can still go. You Know Hager's good. He's young engaged is in practice. But what do you expect to see here? That's the thing I it's a mystery because I've Seen Jake Hager on the indie scene. I was hoping he was gonNA be. I guess you're McIntyre's kind of become the poster boy for that just gets out of WWe and is reinvigorated and really out to prove something and Haggar. Wasn't that guide. And he's not by the way. I think you know the enemy career has something to do with that This I would assume more lucrative than his career. I would hope that he is looking forward to this. And and he's he has a good opponent in Dustin I. I'm not quite sure how they'll mesh with one another but I I don't I I guess I'm just not getting my hopes up and but at the same time. I hope to be overwhelmed. I TOLD THEM. I hope that it's like wow. Haggar does have something to offer more than just a guy who can stand in the corner. Yeah I mean there's a reason that hager had so much going forum in early world title right I mean. There was drew McIntyre type story there in terms of being looked. You look at him and you go okay. Here's our here's our a guy that could be our next big big star and I thought the ad time it didn't take long for management to figure out not much longer for others to figure out wasn't it's just a job you know what I mean. Don't didn't come. I mean. He sounds like he didn't care. He cared but he cared at the level of you know not not showing the type of of enthusiastic immersive engagement that frankly people in charge of who gets the top push look for because they had it and so if you don't share that the people who have the power to push you or not pushing job you out or not you know hurt. I mean just in terms of how you know how he took care of himself and the vibe he gave off body language wise and all that it just it worked against him and the thing is is he actually pals I could see a Moxley hager feud and I could see that being a breakout moment for for Hager if Moxie can get him motivated on the Mike and in the ring and then maybe that springs into action. Some new face a new chapter in his career. I'm working against Dustin. It should be a like I said I think it should be a good match into pro and I think you'll get something out of Hager. I don't think it's GonNa be a show stealer or anything like that but I think it would be disrespectful of Hager to just show up and not give Dustin who worked so hard to have this this phase of his career at his aid to to to not be willing to kind of bring it in and turn it up. I mean he's a guy would expect him to do and I I think Hager Against B. L. and Hager Against Jon Moxley Hager against cody. I mean there's a presence there there's some TV exposure that counts for something. I don't think he can main event pay per view unless he shows me quite a bit more than he has but as a as a utility Guy Gatekeeper a fourth from the top type pay per view opponent for a top Tier Act. Talk You pie themselves for a few months or a couple of months. When they're not in top main event that that's valuable to have and he's he's he works in that role. I am not as optimistic. I hope what you're saying. I was a big fan of his when he was a really Ronin. Wwe I get a kick out of the The Soaring Eagle that version when he had that mascot with him. I I always thought highly of Jake Hager and then he just kinda seemed to settle in and there was talk of him. Dozing off in a meeting of some kind. And and then he had the think he was pulled over for out in the car and he got. I think shortly before Wrestlemainia to the point is like they're going to go through with his match with del Rey when they did. But there's just been some issues and then again I I just. I need to go out there and deliver a type of performance. It's going to kind of wash away. The memories of him just kind of going through the motions in the limited albeit limited in India appearances that I saw his all right so then we also have Darby Ellen. Sammy Guevara. Two of the younger kind of breakout acts of for a w against each other. I think it's GonNa be a blast this is. I think some people are going to look forward to this match as much as any or more. Darby's got something that not everybody is going to get but it he he connects with people in a way. That doesn't come around all the time. And then Sammy ours. Just been I mean you know. We talked about college Riley earlier. I mean he's a Colorado got to just have a nice okay mom. He's not stealing the scenes. In a way that that undercuts. What's happening but you can't take your eyes off him because he's enhancing the scene. He knows his character. And it's just any good in the ring I mean this is. This is a channel news to lyrics to Jericho Song. He I think this is GonNa be really really memorable standout match on on this. We can't show I know. Aws that's the only guy who should be shown singing Jericho song other than Jericho himself. Just don't cut to the fancy aged please down it. It's not a good look. Just say that. I think they've made a mistake. Was Sammy by having him loose to frequently. I think he's that guy that you want to see put in place and if this were how shows name is losing okay fine but we see him. Put his place too often at this. Should be something where you're hoping. Darby's the guy that does it and the match will be really good. I don't I don't worry about that But it again. They'd just we just saw him lose on TV. Not It was not last week the week before and I see that too much i. It's he's that pest he'll when you beat a passed he'll to let pest goes away. You're just kind of taking away. What should be like a moment by just doing it too frequently? Yeah I think you're right. I mean he darby. Sammy are both guys worth protecting. And whatever they do on on revolution I think they need to keep in mind uses to build both of them one way or the other I agree. Yeah I mean I. I would hope that they're going to extend the feud and if they do then. I think you find a way for Sammy to go over. If not the one that I would assume that Darby. He's going to go over. Because he is a bolt stars but Darby's that rising babyfaced star and so if the feud there's no more to come from this then I think Darby goes over but the right move I think shammy yeah I do too but man clean up. Its Sammy not clean in. Darby is Darby's worth I mean. They're responsible it last Wednesday in just what he brings it so different and they they need to realize there's something there don't know what the ceiling is for it but he should be a valuable role player but he should have a valuable part where they put time into his his. What what he's doing he deserves. Time and attention Secondary Title I. It sounds like there's I just got the feeling listening to cody's media conference call that maybe there are some in their creative meetings who were for it and others who don't want to do it right away. I hope they do it sooner rather than later. I I think they've established their tag titles women's title and World Title. I I think they can do one more title at and I would leave it at that. One more title is fine if there's ever a need to increase and do you know. Women's tag title is great but You know there's not that need right now but one more kind of a secondary intercontinental level championship. I think would be great and I think he's a guy who could be in. That division is pursuing that and eventually getting into the heavyweight division. Yup I agree and it just depends on who they're heavyweight. Champion is at the time you know how that fits another Chris. Awa Women's championship on the line. Here now arose cutting a straightforward. He'll promo last Wednesday. Thought it was it was sufficient for what what she needed to do on the Mike to Establish who she is Acura stat lender. I'm in Jim Ross camp. I'm not sure it should make the air. I'm talking like he did about it but they got to establish what that is in. I've said it before I mean. Are we supposed to take her seriously that she thinks that? Are we supposed to think? She really isn't alien. That she really thinks she's an alien or that. Gimmick that does because it's cute and fun and Indie Riddick or she does it to mess with people's heads or she's crazy like we just don't know and just because you instantly get it at in indy. Show in front of three or eight hundred people. It doesn't mean that you should actually not rethink things before you take it to national television and make sure that you have a gimmick that fits a two hour weekly show that you're when you're a top star in that in that division as opposed to again something that's tongue-in-cheek Andy Griffith that works in front of a handful of people in an armory. So I just think there's something a. w. should have given thought to and. I think a spotlight shine on that when Jim Ross didn't even know what he's supposed to advocate regarding her character. I know people get down on roster that breeding them being grumpy. Jim I I just not along with him completely age. Yeah I mean you're right. Maybe it's not the time to do it. I think that's just goes with the territory you get that when you get Jim Ross. I mean he would do it in. Wwe maybe not to this extent. But I think he's protecting his own credibility and he's right. I think that she has something and yeah pick a direction it I it can be. She's crazy it can be. She is playing mind games. It can't be. She's an alien from the andromeda galaxy or whatever they're claiming that that's stupid don't do that. Yeah it's stupid and it's stupid in a way that they w doesn't get that. How stupid it is. I question a lot of what they're doing it if they WANNA have like a serious upper and then a frivolous tongue-in-cheek. You know I don't. I don't think that's what Tony Kahn. Watts I don't think he'd liked the pre shows in the tone of the librarian stuff in the tongue in cheek. Stuff I mean I. Just I think ultimately the the it's the booking direction is going to swing towards something other than that and that's where the statler thing they need to clean that up. You know I mean that's Awa was just top to bottom. There's just there's not. This cohesive attention to detail and sometimes it feels like you know. Put people out there without having really thought through the best way to frame him and you can go too far. And it feels antiseptic incorporate. And all that and you know. Wwe With the movements every wrestler goes through on the stage for their entrance and what they do in the ring. It feels like the dance recital. Sometimes where it's just a little to Cirque du Soleil and get you can take it too far but I just think. Aws steph conversations about a two to clean up some of the stuff that they're doing that's not on the very top of the card. They're looking into some things that are working on weld. Arbi Ellen for instance but you know the women's division they're just especially Kristan lender sort of the poster wrestler for that. They're not they're not refining things. I think they should. Yeah and I think there is something with that. Little knows boop things she does. The crowd reacts to it you. You don't need to just scrap the entire gimmick you but you need to define what it is and hopefully. They picked the right direction. I would have a standing rule that we don't put anyone on television without a video package. Introducing who they are without unless it's an absolute jobber if an enhancement type. Soviet but anyone else no. Because I'm still a big wall. Why do I care about her? And I want to. Because I've seen a little bit of the independent scene and I think she was the classic on this. Yes something to offer. I ate at that segment. They did last week. So you're going. You said nine larose out there. She strong Promo. She's the beast of the division. Gotten everybody's face the week before they all just stood there and took it then and then. She's confronted by stat lender. Mike okay good. They're probably doing mashed pay per view and they are why the hell was big all out there. Why did she get Nyla? Rose's face and neither rose just stood there and took it. That's not Nile. Rose Donald Rosewood and put up with that. The character I've seen but big fall suddenly just gets interface. I'd so there's a lot of little things like that that I think need to be cleaned up but on the flip side. I've been very impressed. Recently by some of the changes they have made. They're not just married to their booking. One hundred percent the fact that they did do away with the nightmare collective and just some of the smaller changes. They've made like that. I think it's encouraging that it's not just know better. You're going to deal with it. You're GONNA like it and they're not playing that game. Yep Yep I agree. Some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are. Vip exclusive and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content including pro wrestling torch senior columnist. Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show I usually host that program although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means. Also the fix with Todd Martin every mid week todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest TV shows and major events from wwe a e w New Japan and many others. Plus we'll keep you up to date on what just happened in the world of anime. Usc Latour and more and what's coming up the following weekend plus book reviews reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the worldwide pro wrestling scene and the unmatched mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world. I know I sound like I'm exaggerating. But this is the fixed listeners. Provide fantastic questions and todd delivers. 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Shows from the early to late nineteen ninety S. our podcast dating back to the mid-2000s back issues with Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter over sixteen hundred of them and so much more full details at peak w torch VIP INFO DOT com. That's P. W. Torch VIP INFO DOT com. Join THE RANKS. So the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcasts lineup anywhere. Gobi and get these shows with the ads and plugs removed also a huge bonus. Pow TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM. All right let's Maybe wrap up here with Wrestlemainia and how things are taking shape. We talked a little bit about earlier. Drew McIntyre Brock Listener. I don't know what match is going to be bigger on Wrestlemainia in terms of the hype and the marketing of the positioning. Is this feeling to you like a match. That if there isn't something else like John. Against the fiend or I don't know I mean I'm trying to think what undertaker match would is in the cards as a possibility that could be bigger acres. Styles is not bigger. No no IT Goldberg taker. Yeah I don't know so to ease is Wesner drew shaping up with taking into account aiming unless there's Promo on raw and especially the sit down interview. Drouin what they've been with him. Does this feel like if we were in a pay per view era whereby rates were determined on the must see this aspect of the show. How how is this on houses shaping up? I think they're on their way. I think that there's a possibility. Becky LYNCH AND SHANE OBEYS. Ler is competition to close tonight. Mostly depending on what they have planned for the the the two matches it one if they want they always want to close the show on a on a happy notice. Seems like or a big note and so back in hunters going over. I would have him in the main event with listener. If he's not the and Becky is well then you can make a case for that instead if they but there's still there's not a lot of time but there's enough time where. I think there should be some some flexibility. I wouldn't be married to. This is what we're doing because I want to see how you know what the fan reaction is. Something cool off before mandate is something really heat up before mania. I think they're doing a nice job. Which you'RE MCINTYRE I liked. The sit down interview still drives me nuts that they didn't cover his he'll run it when it was so simple. There's so many different things you could have said to explain that away. And they just didn't. They seriously felt the need to acknowledge his his days in three embiid. Not that I know and there were multiple ways that could have addressed it and I it does. It feels when you don't include that you can say. I don't want to draw attention to it but if you do explain it you know. I mean it's a part of the drew story and it feels a little bit like a con job or or propaganda when the alliance. Shane McMahon the alliance adults sigler the the attitude that he had doesn't fit at all with the narrative of he he went and proved himself and then came back in the crowd recognize the media so happy they know who he was. I think the full journey is a more compelling story than leaving out the last couple of years. Yeah I was real I mean I. I could see. They weren't going to but once they kind of glossed over that. I'm like please tell me there's a part two to this and then they wrap it up so it doesn't seem like there is but that was so simple I had. There's just so many different things he could have said he stuck with this theme which is frustration and he did it out of frustration aligned with Shane they go. I need something to get ahead and then you know I had an epiphany. I don't need to be this person. I'M GONNA. I'm GONNA do things. I'm not going to be that desperate. I'm GonNa make things happen just so many different things. He could have said to do. Explain that away and the fact that he didn't was disappointing but it doesn't ruin him. It's just a missed opportunity. I think he's a really good position. I think fans like him and and I think it really when it comes to is at the main event. I think that should be determined by how good of the segments between drew McIntyre and Paul Heyman drew McIntyre and Brooklyn area. We've only had one listener attack. We really haven't seen them share the ring so that we still have that to go and the Dick and be really good and and I think there is a chance when all is said and done. That's GonNa feel like yes. This is the obvious. Made that the Orton Edge. Saga has a new chapter next week. Beth Phoenix showing up. I shudder to think what might have planned for her. I would hope that. W We understand. It's not credible at all. If they don't surround her with protection given that or does heinous things and then apologizes and then wants to explain himself and then baby faces erupt right. He's getting to the good part every week but they can't leave out vulnerable. I mean that's just ridiculous so that's another chapter are. Is this a great bill to grudge match for the ages? That has a chance to be. I mean it seems like it's shaping up as a match that's going to be a top three or top four when people look back at this wrestlemainia depending on what undertaker dozen. What does lessner drew a match with rains. Or someone else Becky baseler Ripley. Ripley's Charlotte those are in contention. But this this is top. Three top four on just about everybody's list the way shaping up. I've loved this. I mean just from the initial beat down to the two segments with Matt Hardy. This week was a little kind of get an extra week but they did a nice job of kind of tying together by you know with Kevin Ellen's. It wasn't as hot as other segments. But this is the Best Randy. Orton has in a long time. If not ever and I hope they can keep this up. I'm with I mean I kind of look at it like they're not advertising but next week might be the return of edge. Why would you send your wife out there alone? Their advertising my thing for the week after I think it makes sense to not advertise him and have him show up on this show. Only problem is it's right before elimination chamber and I I don't know if they will so it could just end up. Being Beth Phoenix out there by herself which is a little strange. But like you say if you put enough security or something out there maybe maybe you can make it work on buddy. I wouldn't be surprised if he does make a move on her. And Ed shows up and does after him I was almost wondering if they're going to do it on Monday when they were in Winnipeg. Just hide Canadian crowd But once they announced bathrooms. That's not happening but I think this is. I'm so happy they're doing it mania rather than in Saudi Arabia. I would have really been disappointing to see edges first match back. Outside of the room was first singles match back. Take place on that show in that environment. you know. It belongs on Wrestlemainia. The bill has been really good so far. I really I guess. I hope that they can keep it up on Saturdays back. And it's just edged sideline. It's I don't know I have some faith that they can But it's going to be tough because everything we've seen is been show damn good so far. Yeah no it's good I agree. It's a cool. It's a cool use of Orton. I hope we eventually get a true answer from him in some form or fashion and not well you went under stance on. I gotTa tell you. Yeah I mean it is weird that a baby like you said. The baby faces always. Do we want answers while I was about to give you one morons but That has been a little quirk in this like well. Then let him talk with interrupting him if you really want the answer but I mean this week was better because he offered his insincere apology and Kevin owns came out and called him on it. But those Matt Hardy Segments. I mean I guess was the idea that Matt wanted to be there to hear it. Cured himself was at the was that they were going for. I mean I I. That's the plausible answer but common sense. Says if you're really really really really eager to hear an answer and there's a microphone and that guy's hand and it's being recorded for a nationality or broadcast to an international audience. I think you can stay in the back and let the flow continue. Sure Yeah I mean if we're going to be but I don't think it's like this glaring weakness in the story line but it is sorta like come on not again. I don't think so what's WHO's the best opponent for John. Cena because allies made no sense. I mean we tried to make sense of it and like well. He wants to have fun thing but allies has been turned back and forth and I could imagine a ural that being the thought but not not in the last month it just. It's like really. I mean when that was said it was like okay. Well if that's if that's what the word is let's try to make sense of it seen as wanted to do anything serious. Buddy appears on the show. I guess it's better than nothing. I just don't see that in the cars right now and it sounds like those reports are being withdrawn. A little bit. What makes sense for you know? I'm GonNa say this again because it and hope it sticks one of these years every year a full wrestlemainia line close to it comes out sometime in January or February and it always changes and everybody act shocked when it does. It happens every year and it includes matches that sometimes people in the know say were never discussed right. Yes yeah yeah. I don't know why people just my in every year I mean always consider the sources getting into some are more reliable than others. Obviously but I just I just reliable in some ways but not others and there's way to frame it is this is the lineup and remind people this can change Because it does change every fricken year yes some of the top matchstick but the rest of it gets shaken up or just never was and I don't know what if they really were thinking any lions if so. That's just insane. I'm but I just have a hard time thinking that they were personally but As far as an opponent for him ooh I I mean I guess. Because he's he's showing up on smackdown. It depends what John Cena. You're getting are you getting the Johnson and the goat wants to go out there and have a US Open challenge type Banger of Amash Wrestlemainia. Or are you getting the guy who to show up and have a quick phone? Imagine and not take any risks and I guess you could look at Barron Corbin. But they've had some issues in the past but it just it might just be seen wants to and they may think too much of Corbin to do this. I wouldn't have any problem with Sina. Beat him in three minutes but they may think too much of Corbin so I I don't know I mean Sina. Goldberg doesn't really appeal to me. But it is marquee match in some ways seen in range same thing. Yeah I like. I like seeing the rain. So they can get get have like a Goldberg fiend rematch or something else for the theme that feels substantial enough to count and it can be face or heel they might they could choose to go different. Russia with a fiend. Eventually characters like that technical baby face. This might be too soon for that but Sina rains. You know seems like that. That would be intriguing. You have to kind of manufacturer the storyline by talking incorporating the history and then creating some other purpose for it and then it. The scene of grains is ready to deliver. I mean is that something that could get rains to come out of a shout on promos. There's also seen in Daniel Bryan. The obvious story of you know you. You left my sister-in-law whatever. I wouldn't think they'd want to go there because I don't think it makes. I mean how would not vote make seen a look good and I mean because Brian Just GonNa happen basically accused him of leaving. Nikki? Nikki what good either. So there's certainly other ways you can get to Brian Versus Scene. But that seems to be the thing that a lot of fans are clinging to is is to plan to that whole relationship that family dynamic that they once had and have brian comb out some things and. I just don't know what they need to go there. I'm not I mean danube-rhine should have a big matchup mania but Sina. Brian doesn't anything about the ballots. Seem like a wrestlemainia match. So what if they just leave that part out of it? I mean is it because is it just looming overhead so much that you don't go there I just don't think it makes sense other anyway. I don't know yeah I mean I just there too big names. But what's how do you manufacturer to exist. I'm O'Brien just comes out and beats the holy hell out of them while yelling. I hate your rules. I'll never obey rules again. Johnson maybe is driven match. Oh my God that'd be awesome. Those else I still can't get over the house rules. I'm sorry yes. Oh those are wonderful. Wonderful and great based on you know based on reality It is reality TV so I think the idea here. Is You know some question marks about what the best way to use. Some big names is at this point and I don't think they've done a good job setting up over the last three six nine months perfect slots for a lot of these recipes to slip into for big moment. Well what do you do? It says rollins. We're talking smack. Down is a mess. I mean it just week-to-week basis. It's largely a mess and that it's not a deep roster. There's only so many intriguing match-ups to go around. I mean we're finding some because of Goldberg and inserted but otherwise it was like well rains. And and why and then Daniel Bryan and Corbin. Because we don't know what else to do because there's really nobody else in the brand. That feels like they matter in the men's singles division maybe shameless and even that feels like a reach but raw. I mean it could be as simple as Kevin Owens but it's been reported that triple h agent wrestling. But if he does what baby faced triple h against. He'll Seth Ron's Yep. I mean that that works. I mean I think that's a good use of both because I don't know what else you do. I mean to me. They're going to run. The whole Owens and I mean it's already it already feels overexposed. It's better when it's the two of them. Then it is when. It's you know all the six-man eight-man eggs and all of that. So maybe they can still kind of get too many which is two singles match but then you also have the matter of those guys holding the tag titles so backing away. Maybe you're right. Maybe THEY WANNA get their tag titles away from rollins. We can't have a singles match but it could also be no. We're having a big tag match and Rollins is going to be the face of that somehow. Well I guess wait and see. We got a lot of events coming up between now and mania lot of TV shows and special events to to sort this out. The women's division is in good shape Ripley Charlotte Becky baseler and then something was back down. That won't matter nearly as much but you know whether it's you know Naomi your or or a Bailey or Sasha breaking your lacy is with sit down interview and kind of cooling off in the trying to get her up began. It seems like that's the most likely person to be involved one way or the other. If that's the case then I guess it's a rematch with Bailey. Because they don't have another he'll that makes sense. I mean guys come on figure it out. It's not there. They just had her go out there a metric down interview and say basically the same thing. She's been saying nothing really changed the issue is that yes. She sounds sincere. She sounds genuine for the most part but she looks like a glow character. It worked as a heel doesn't as baby face change it. Yep I agree are good news and bad news. The Bad News I. This is the end of today's Tuesday. Flagship a special early edition. It'll flagship addition to the teller progressing. Podcast Good News Jason Paul and I are going to record mailbag segment and will drop that into Thursday slot so check back Thursday four Mellberg portion of the show but I in between those two shows over on the right brand the killer progressing post show my eight year. W DYNAMITE PO show. That'll be available late Wednesday night first thing Thursday morning so be sure. Refresh your feet for that. You can also join us. Live for the color portion of the program we'll be live streaming and taking calls within about five minutes of eight dynamite ending on Wednesday night. You can find the link to that at Pete W TORCH DOT COM in my dynamite TV report. You can also check our twitter account. I almost always remember to put up a link to the livestream at pw torch and you can also go to Keller Post Show Dot Com and there should be a link on that page that will take you to the direct stream but again easiest way in most Assured way to know where to go is visit pedal your torch dot com catch up on the show if you missed any or all of it and then listen to the livestream and you can contribute your thoughts if you watch the show our That'll do it for me for today. Thanks to Jason Powell from pro wrestling dot net in the processing boom podcast and at pro wrestling. That on twitter can follow me on twitter at the Wade Keller and you can follow our brand at POW torch on twitter. Instagram and facebook. That'll do it for me. Thank you everybody and elects time Wade Keller signing searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason. Powell hosted the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribing to stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at pw boom dot com once again that's pw boom dot com.

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WKPWP - Ex-WWE Creative John Piermarini: What shouldn't be assumed about leaked Raw script, how Triple H differs from Vince, more (9-5-14)

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:31:11 hr | 1 year ago

WKPWP - Ex-WWE Creative John Piermarini: What shouldn't be assumed about leaked Raw script, how Triple H differs from Vince, more (9-5-14)

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This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease searching for more great pro wrestling talk join me jason powell hosted the free weekly pro wrestling sling boom podcast each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team pro wrestling got net along with other pro. Wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features. There's long form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribing to stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at p._o._w. Boom boom dot com once again that's p._w. Boom dot com something extraordinary has happened to judy size moore's closet making view more like a closet an area that once caused claustrophobia now has enough space to hold all of judy. He's striped out next sweaters and judy sizemore has a lot of striped right both naked sweaty weather from the container store custom closet salas who's here with up to twenty five percent of all systems including alpha the container store where space comes. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. Oh it's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. You want to live c._b._d. Medic targets target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available available online and at c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease now how p._w. Torch and spreaker bring you the wade keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for wade interview with one of pro wrestling's newsmakers as we approach october when we get to new visions on wednesday nights compared to what vincent man has been presenting on national cable table for all these years for the first time on major cable networks with audiences probably in the seven figures we're going to have to different booking teams and booking leaders presenting a different vision for what progress and can be a one of the areas of real curiosity is different will promos be in asia w and and really how different will promos be in an x._t. Compared to vince mcmahon's approach that has been in place for eighteen years. Give or take now since it's <hes> promos really became more word for word scripted and i'm really curious about that. We didn't get much of a window into that last night on eighty ws ws pay per view all out because they just pretty much went straight through with matches <hes> so we didn't get the sense of what they're gonna do with interviews. I'm really really curious on the to our show how they handle things heck. I'm curious about how the n._w._e._a. Show that starting up the new studio show with billy corgan charge dave logan and others how they're are gonna handle <hes> promos there how scripted while they be so with that in mind today's five years ago interview classic goes back to two thousand fourteen five years ago this week with with john piermarini who worked in w._w. Be creative in two thousand nine two thousand ten era and in this interview for two hours. He shares a lot of fascinating behind the scenes insights. It's a firsthand backstage. Knowledge and experience of what things are like behind the scenes in w._w._e. It's a wide range of topics including his take about what should and shouldn't be assumed about the leaked raw script dealing with stephanie mcmahon backstage. His thoughts on roman reigns is big push so far and specifically what could accelerate his growth as a character also thoughts on what was missing from the bree nikki angle so far but what really jumps out to me as timely now in light of what's coming up in october is how our promos written and practiced how they really written it practiced. Are there misconceptions. What does he think is good and bad about it and maybe does vincent man system. Get a bad rap up or or not so john talks about that specifically and i'm very curious how eighty w._n. Annex t change up how vincent man does promos how much more freedom to wrestlers have have to explore their own voice and how much more agency do they have and what they say or responsibility to come up with what they say and does that lead to a more authentic product. Does it allow characters character to blossom that otherwise would have been stifled by heavy scripting and one or a group of people writing for everybody so that's one thing to look for also how triple h be different then vincent man in terms of running w._w._e. John marini explained his viewpoint on that and now it's gonna come into practice with wednesday night annex t show so really timely five years ago interview classic here. I think you'll really enjoy and learn a lot. This was five years ago this week and we now go to this. Week's wade keller progress and podcast interview classic a real quick before we go to that do want to note that the p._o._w. Torch daily cast the latest episode was recorded last night stream live last night in fact with mike mcmahon running the phone banks and analyzing the all out card so if you haven't heard that show yet just jump over on your podcast test app to the torch daily cast feed if you haven't subscribed yet might as well do it now search p._w. Torch and subscribe new shows every day. Greg parks will be by tonight with kelly wells and they're gonna talk about all out <hes> new japan and exte- u._k. And more on their life call in show which will be available for download <hes> late sunday night and of course anytime time thereafter so if you're not driving to the people towards the cast a great time to search p._o._w. Torch in your podcast app and subscribe all right so now onto the interview classic with x. creative greatest team member john piermarini <music> <music> welcome to the p w torch live cast. I am wade keller editor and publisher of the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven back when a man named ronald reagan was president of the country and also p._w. Torch dot com updated every day with tons of news exclusive features the s._p. W torch feature and more and also the people you torch app available on android and phones and ipads for that matter her and <hes> also our sisters and my torch dot com and the torch app. Our apps are free download if you're fan or w._w._e. Fan or or just in general download download our free app on your on your device or please visit us <hes> m._m._a. Dot com and dot com a big enemy weekend so <hes> it's a good time to <hes> go to 'em torch dot com if you haven't before and check out our top shelf coverage of the sport of a may it is friday september fifth two thousand fourteen and i'm joined by john marini here for interview friday. John is a semi regular guest here on the show and ex w._w._e. Be creative team member. John was it <hes> two thousand eight hundred thousand nine or two thousand nine and two thousand ten that you were part of the company. Yeah it was two thousand nine and two thousand ten okay yeah so <hes> john is back and he is always i. There's so much has happened since the last time you were on at the beginning of june john. I am really curious to hear your thoughts on on on many things but we also invite callers to call in if you have a question about today's w._w._e. Or somebody happenings back in two thousand nine and two thousand ten <hes> the right guy is on the show to answer your questions so you can call six four six seven two one nine eight two eight or email p. W torch live cast aah aggie mail dot com. It's simply the name of the show g mail so p._w. Torch life test at gmail.com quick programming note before go further though we had advertised <hes> evan bourne or ormat sidell for today's show he ended up with a scheduling conflict <hes> both this friday and next friday so we weren't able to reschedule even for next friday so what we've done is which day so james corden only greg parks. We'll be hosting next friday. Interview friday moves to thursday next week which happens on occasion. I've done two or three times in the past so matt sidell. No one has been inborn <hes> in w._w._e. He will be joining me next thursday and expected to be a really good interview and he told me today that he'll have something that he can announced by then also that'll make make make his appearance more relevant so <hes> tune in that. It should be really good interview and i'm looking for that one. I uh john <hes> trying to think i don't have. I should know that right off. Evan bourne was active while you were there wasn't he. He was yes yeah what let's start with that. What what did you think of evan potential and what was he viewed like by people people more powerful than you and what was viewed for viewed as you you know it was a little bit different in two thousand nine two thousand ten as far as the a mid card and undercard <hes> what's considered because <hes> today. It seems like they're more utilized than they were. When when i was there it was mostly we had a story maybe a b- story and that was it and then everything else was just filler so evan bourne just kind of fell l. into that well. You know he's exciting. <hes> he gets a pop and so we'll find a place for him somewhere on the card but outside of that there was never really any effort put into creating a compelling story for them are really diving into <hes> his character and trying to find nine away to evolve it or really get involved for the most part i think it would after i left that they finally started pushing him with kofi. <hes> i don't know the time frame on that it might have been right after might've been <hes> a couple years after but yeah he wasn't the you know and again <hes> he might have been seen as you know potential big star i don't i don't think so because because there was never a point where even someone like kofi kingston where we thought he had some sort of potential and we wanted to push them right at least that was disgust and we gave it an opportunity <hes> but with evan bourne. I don't remember his name really ever coming up <hes> as far as you know really trying to come up with something for him. He's what triplets would call are filled. Our spot monkeys slot on the rocks. You know let's let's let's keep those internet fans happy like to go to those shows or flip flops and jumps around around that we got even more and so we don't need. We don't need anybody else like him. You know stuff like that. It's kind of thing that i think you know religious known to say so i yeah i mean they've been as happens all those guys then then i huge huge fan of his work i saw his first trial match ever in person and i just he was remarkable and i was backstage when when gates polski greeted him right afterwards afterwards and gabe said you're hired. Will you come with us tomorrow to chicago and he was like yeah yeah. He's really impressive for site. Yeah i was a fantasy as well <hes>. I actually worked with him very briefly. <hes> with the i always forget the name of it but when i was an m._t._v. with the mtv wrestling show that we did oh yeah one of the <hes> the talent on there. I actually don't think he was used too much. I i again. I it that whole that whole time is is kinda foggy with that whole the promotion but i do know he was on the pilot episode at least and he had a valet and i think he went by matt's ideal but <hes> yeah i liked him. I was a fan but you know oh and we've discussed this at length in previous interviews but there are certain guys that you know you would you would attach yourself to or see potential in and <hes> really kind of die on a mountain to try to get that person over a get that person to story <hes> and then there was guys that you just kind of new i i mean i could come up with something for him but odds of it actually taking off or swim and i kind of felt that same thing kind of applied to have been born. I'm rich ban hosted the deep dive with richmond a weekly part of the p._o._w. Torch valey cast lenovo shares search p._o._v. torch apple podcasts or your podcast dances subscribe every saturday at six p._m. Eastern i dive in with guests for an hour and anything in the world wrestling or wrestling related wanna hear about the influence of historical figures on big kettering. We got ya want to hear about how crazy in the marine movies got we are on. No topic is too big a too small so if you want to dive in with this call in live or listen on demand and see the entire p._w. Towards daily cast schedule at p._w. Towards daily kansas dot com. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine uh-huh and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. You want to live cd medic. Targets your pain at its source. It's fast fast acting relief with active o._t._c. ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._b. Medic available online and that c._b._s. These these statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease right now at t. mobile. Get an awesome my phone ten hour on us when you bring your family over and trade in your old device because whether you have mom dad or a friend on your mind it's a gift so bold and brilliant you wanna keep it for yourself. The most importantly it's on us in six five plus with unlimited everything from t mobile he possum iphone ten are we'll have everyone's snapping streaming sharing to their hearts content all year long but don't wait. It's only limited time so visit a store or call one eight hundred t able to get iphone ten are on us if congested customers using more than fifty gigs per month may notice reduce speeds deprioritization video at forty p. b. At twenty four monthly bill credits for well qualified customers plus tax qualified trade important service and finance agreement required contact us before cancelling our credit stopping remaining bounced sixty four gigs zero down thirty one twenty five per month on for twenty four months pre-credit price seven ninety nine zero percent a._p._r. One offer per account if you're just joining us john piermarini is the voice that you just heard he is an ex w._w._e. Creative team member in two thousand nine two thousand ten and we are live on the air at five thirty eight eastern to thirty eight pacific time and ryan central time for thirty eight p._m. On friday september fifth and this is the torch live cast. We are live every single day monday through friday and sometimes sundays after major pay per views and you can check our schedule at w. Torch live cast dot com but generally speaking the show is on the hour before raw on mondays and then live at five thirty eastern and tuesday through friday. We also have east coast cast dot com which is a sister <hes> wrestling podcast hosted by travis andrey and <hes> sometimes you'll hear travis. You're on the live cast on mondays with bruce mitchell. He hosts his own show and that is available to you on wednesdays at east coast cast dot com find a la plug log of our sister podcast here at talk radio anime torch life cast <hes> it is available at blog talk radio dot com slash. 'em torch check that on a weekly show with a lot of talk in life calls similar to this on the world of 'em <hes> john lewis. I want to go to an email question that we got here. <hes> because this was in the news i think it was yesterday when imager and probably other places to <hes> another raw script popped up and <hes> listener will from jersey says he's listening live now. Nobody wanted to give us questions by email. Do john believe the leak. The leaked scripts becoming from a writer inside who wants w._w._e. To be criticized so that they it can be forced to shake up the writing. Thanks <hes> <hes>. I don't know how that would. I mean maybe so you can understand where he's coming from better and and i i guess maybe ross perot throwing a script out there for people to see like what is it's written down for the wrestlers to do my i mean my problem with the question i guess is what's more embarrassing than a bad final product that air you know why descript make it worse i to me a script getting out. It's kind of you know. It's kind of inside baseball kind of you know exposing the mechanisms of how the show works but you know triple h is on there. We're talking to chris jericho on jericho's podcast about you know how took main call them up after vince russo laughed and said you know <hes> you know you offer to help out. I want you to help about give me some ideas and and i don't know i mean i guess they just you know jericho and triple h talk about working in the ring together. I just don't think there's a lot of secrets left so i don't think w w me would care all that much about a script getting out i. I'm sure there's probably some indy. There's probably a feeling inside the company that they'd prefer they not get out after the fact active they might you know put some numbers on the scripts from now on or something or figure out a way to try to keep people from distributing them but i don't think it's a big deal. I don't think it was a big panic on mandatory pages part this week that oh my god people saw the the draft of what people said that aired yeah i don't. I don't necessarily know that that a writer would do that. I mean i know the the whole landscape of writers has changed. I know there's so many people are now compared to when i was there but <hes> <hes> when i was there. It seemed like you know everybody was afraid to lose their job. <hes> no one was gonna mess up. No one was going to <hes> <hes> speak up too loud so i can't imagine that there would be a writer there who felt like <hes> they would leak a script and there'd be backlash. The writing and and things were shaking up <hes>. I think the the better chance of happening is that someone leaks at script and someone gets fired and i don't think anyone would take that chance chance but <hes> i mean just to go along with this question like you said i see that was gonna be my original answer. Was the final product is it's gonna be what it's gonna cause to shake things up. I'm willing to do it. Yeah will is listening to us live and i just got to chime. That said he followed up here. He says yes way that is what i mean like so range for example. Could maybe cut some slack for us promos because now you can see that he's just repeating what's written for him and so he he's listening to clarify so i again i yes. I mean if people see oh. It's not roman reigns his fault. He doesn't say very much. He's just doing what he's told the do so <hes> then maybe that would cause a shakeup. 'cause people start blaming the writers instead of the wrestler same thing i guess would apply when we criticise announcers and you know when i criticize j._b._l. L. people got world c. J. deal just saying what he's told and i'm like when i criticized j._b._l. I'm not going after john. Necessarily i'm going after the product of j._b._l. Commentator later and sometimes it's him sometimes vince sometimes. It's a combination of factors so when i criticized j._p._l. I'm i'm just saying j._b._l. Or that product is hurting the product and here's why why as opposed to it's all john's fault and i wish someone would step in and stop them because of course a lot of what the announcer says is vince mcmahon on headsets. Yeah you know i think that the ah against the the email question. I think it would benefit roman more than you know. 'cause i mean that pro has to get approved through vents yeah so vinca vinca happy with whatever it is. It's on that sheet of paper and if he wasn't he'd righted themselves so if if if there's a script it's gonna get league league sure it might help roman in the sense of man. I know he could do better but this is obviously what he's been given. He's not that bad <hes> <hes>. I don't know that vince is gonna recognize that and make any changes again and i've said this so many times on your show vinson's gonna make changes when it affects affects his wallet and ultimately part of that is the ratings and bhai rates so if you're not happy with the product and he sees a swarm of the people leave. That's when there's gonna be a change but it's not gonna be because <hes> you know a script dot out and people thought wow the writing on that show is horrible because it's the same writing that showed up in the final product right yeah i get that w._w._e. Might not want the script for raw to get out and it's only happened a few times just because it it just feels like a little invasion of privacy. It's like they want a little mystique laughed in terms of how much detail was provided to the wrestlers in terms of what to say versus you know what is in the charge producers of agents in terms of you know i i you know and fans can i'm sure a lot of people people who got the script went back and watch raw and looked word for word at how what the differences were between what was in the script and what was said and that's fascinating to them and that's fine and that's a microcosm qasem percentage wise a fans or small slice offensive should say but it at the same time i mean i i think it it strips away a little bit of the last mystique steve when you kinda see how the sausage is made in paper form and so when you watch wrestling now it's just drives home the fact that the rest of speaking from the heart there speaking from a memory script and i think it takes a little of the mystique and a little little the fun away from watching wrestlers talk when you think well those aren't even their words and and it's proven because the script got out i mean i think even i i don't know if it was improvised but if you're talking about the script from last monday and you kind of had that moment where jericho and triple h you know talking about the tie and the star that right watching fan you kinda go okay like i wonder if these guys actually don't like each other irritated or maybe she didn't like that with that a a jab back and now is there like that's bumper now. I don't know if that was written in there. My guess is that something like that probably wasn't <hes> but that's the part that it could take away from <hes> because i think for the most part <hes> wrestling fans that are educated are the ones that are saying that script. I don't think the casual fan and maybe they'd come across it but i doubt they'd even really look it over so i think that the people that are seeing being that are the ones that are already educated enough on the product. You know that chris jericho is scripted to say what he said but you know and if if they see tv that part with him and triple h wasn't in there that makes those moments that much more special because it gives that element of i wonder if they actually really don't like each other but then and again jericho and triple h go on a podcast and talk about how much they love each other and respect each other and all that so i w w definitely doing their part to take away the mystique of the product yep well hello blow torch faithful. This is kelly wells host of w._t. Talks and x t every thursday you can hear me and my rotating group of annexed loyalists banter about the highs and lows of the booking the progress and young talent and the big takeover matches hardly pageant provides annex t all time statistics. Tom staub cheers thoughts from the live. Tapings and justin james tells us which talents will be wasted most on the main roster search p._w. Torch and apple podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire torch daily cast schedule app e w torch daily cast dot com jeers breath say metro by t mobile at the best deal in wireless silas and it's all for you offer me just which quickly because metro has to lance but eighty and to samsung galaxy j seven stock bones for free plus amazon amazon prime included. That's the way wireless should be only at metro plus sales tax and activation fee fifty dollars plan acquired not valid for numbers currently on t. mobile network on metro the past thirty days offer subject to change offer valid for new amazon prime members amazon prime has a twelve ninety nine per month restrictions apply see store for details and terms and conditions. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. You want to live c._b._d. Medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free <unk> boil. Get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available online at c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease and when i hear triple h and jericho spend a half hour talking about how much they really get along. It makes me think they don't get along very well. It's a that outs protests too much. The <hes> over come pence over-compensatory over-compensatory it was what was the phrase that <hes> paul heyman users steve austin on the podcast. Oh i think overhead it over com compensatory yeah yeah. I felt like they were kinda. Little title in over-compensatory mode about how chummy they were and all i wanted was i when i'm listening to that. I'm like what i really want thought bubbles well. I walk. I wanna say triple h inter co and as aaa talks about you know chris. Oh you were the best back then. I was just a pleasure working for you. I just wanna hear jericho like with a thought bubble going. Oh descru- you bury me every chance he had and then america goes. Oh yeah it was great working with you to replace those are those are great matches and then triple. H is thought bubble is oh. It's great being bossed because now i got this guy who doesn't like me. You know <hes> endorsing my own bs on the air this his pants like and i don't know that that's necessarily true but it's still i want to see what was really going on in their heads because it did feel feel a little like a it felt like a really long handshake to try to prove to everybody got great. I think they both had their motives <hes> why they felt like they should really put the other person over. I think jericho it was. Hey i want to be able to come back whenever i want because it's a sweet paycheck and i think <hes> would with <hes> with triple eight. I think it was the same thing hey we need you. Sometimes you know i think it's to john. It's because he wants to be popular with the internet. Fans in jericho was like top three right right p._r. Wise he he knows a lot of people think he tried to bury jericho whenever gave him a chance. Which is you know. You can really make a good argument for it. I'm not gonna say it's true but there's a compelling argument out there. That hunter was pretty ruthless as far as that went in the early two thousands and so the reputation is they don't get along so oh and that there's a lot of tension there and resentment so place. You're going to go out there and make it look like hey come on. You know internet because i think the internet can have some influence in steering the online. I mean you know feeling about the network for instance and you know the general tone of general quality of w._w._e. That i think it matters somewhat. It's not overwhelmingly important but it's a matter somewhat somewhat enough for. I think triple h to go. I wanna make sure fancy me in jericho getting along so that you know to me it's like a president vice president john kerry and john edwards who could not did not get along long when they ran <hes> you know they long at all and carry ted to plug his nose. When you know making the decision to go with him instead of gephardt yet they had to go on camera and convinced democrats and swing swing voters that they were a great team and again. I don't wanna over jericho and triple h might have buried the hatchet and and you know in the last few years and that might be more genuine than i'm giving them credit for all all i'm saying is i'm somewhat skeptical john that like you said really well. There's maybe some mutual mutual mode is going or they each had their motives for wanting that you you know and just to kind of stay in this vortex just for a second. I you know i on your show. You have always been a big defender of triple h in the sense that while he may have done his part in and whether it's bearing someone or all people back or making himself look great <hes> you know in in the two years that i was able to he was in all the production meetings. You know like you said it right there. On on your podcast human sean sean left they were both in all the production meetings <hes> triple h was in them one son left and and i i kind of look at it as yeah we i'm guilty of it. Every writers vince is guilty of it kevin dunn guilty of it sean guilty of it. All these people have been the same exact thing triple h is done in the power that they were given to be able to put someone over or berry very somebody and i feel like he just gets it so much more than everybody else and i and i i can see why he kind of wants to go out there and defend themselves a little bit without oh saying hey guys you do realize shawn michaels did the same thing and you adore him. You know and there's there's other people that do it but i just don't i. I didn't see him as that guy that went in there and just purposely buried guy so i run like in a situation with with jericho and and going back and i know nothing about the story of if he was trying to bury or whatever it may be early two thousands but part of me. Maybe feels like you know again again. Maybe it was a time when you're fighting with with a fully kakker austin rock and your parents say against jericho and you're trying trying to hold onto that top spot. Maybe part of you goes look personally. I don't see him as a huge star and there's nothing wrong with that. Some of us do some of don't and i need to come out of this thing looking strongest possible because like triple h that on the podcast i need to be that darth vader to do the stone cold and the rock and i need to come out of this looking strong enough to be able to compete against those guys and maybe i don't feel jericho's the right guy to be a putting sitting over in a sense. Maybe not for the one three but just in the sense of the story line because i need to be over enough <hes> to to go up against these the top guy now again. That's just pure speculation against defending triple h i've seen multiple guys berry people for the wrong reasons backstage age and i've never seen aaa to do it without either saying hey look. I don't like this guy but it's because i think this guy. Hi is in a better position to do that and everybody did that backstage. Did he do it more <hes> more deliberately when i wasn't there i don't know but i i can only speak for what i know and i know that it's more than what everybody out. There buried him have seen you know and it's all based on what they they read or speculation and i'm not even saying you run just saying wrestling fans in general. He gets a bad rap and from from my perspective. I don't think he deserves it anymore than anybody else on top wasn't they didn't call not wanna work with jeff jarrett so essentially buried a main of that running on for jeff jarrett at one point yeah yeah they were you know there are some deeply personal issues and politically she's at both played into that at the time <hes> and i you know i wrote about twitter v._i._p. Members can read a lot of what i wrote about that when that happened at the time because we're actually the first to report on that. I got some some. I got some pushback from within w._w._e. When when the details of what was planned and what was rejected got. I got out and you're right. I mean it. It does happen. I i have defended triple h <hes> more than just about any prominent promising reporter commentator for exactly what you said what i think i i think triple h gets blamed a little bit because does he associated with scott hall who just this miserable human being to be around so much of the time admittedly his part you know just he just felt awful and he just he just brought everyone in the room down but but scott was a really smart perceptive guy so he'd find something that's wrong with somebody and have a real kostic way to point it out out but masked with humor kevin nash not nearly as miserable to be around scott haw but kevin nash super smartest guys i've ever gotten to know in wrestling go over the years but he was he was really perceptive of weaknesses and other guys but and so but he was very willing to speak on it and i think triple h because he was with with that group kind of inherited some of the reputation he earned some of it for sure because but the thing is is this is where i get aaa credit. I don't think aaa buried read somebody with a false accusation. In order to get ahead. Write my issue with triple h is that he has a to narrow his too narrow of a vision of what makes them money drawing wrestler and he also wells too much on things that i think are not particularly relevant to fan base part of the fan base that feels left out when they watch the product and so- aaa guy likes to sit front row with men wearing g-strings flexing muscles and and there's a lot of fans who would much rather go to any show to see evan bourne russell and triple h he just has different things that appeal to him that he would like to do with his free retire then a lot of fans who feel left out of the w._w._e. Product who aren't just end up massive bodybuilding so i think that that because he's soup uh-huh triple h is super smart has a really sharp by for people's strengths and weaknesses but what he thinks qualifies somebody for push and disqualifies somebody for push are things is that i think that i don't always agree with and i think sometimes because of the level of power he attained because of his as he talked about with jericho his willingness to get up earlier than anybody else and go to production meetings to sit in the production booth and oversee of video on himself <hes> because he's willing to do those types of things and he's smart and a student of the business he he just his strengths and weaknesses. I think a larger were more scrutinized because they took on more power because he was so ambitious and so hard working so anybody else who wasn't sleeping in and went to those production meetings might have gotten their opinion heard also in their for their opinions would be more heavily scrutinized forbearing people i i i compared to this. It's it's a doctor that goes to school and he's taught how to treat people with pharmaceutical drugs and when you go to him a._m. And you say hey i read something online. <hes> or you go to a dermatologist go. I read something online at says. It's actually the products that are in the <hes> <hes> <hes> what is it called like suntan lotion that causes skin cancer not necessarily the sun and they go. You're crazy use the lotion and then you go uh-huh to more of a holistic person and they're gonna go yeah don't use that vitamin jesus and that i compare it to that in the sense that he was educated under vince mcmahon and kevin nash shawn michaels hall and and that's what he's the philosophy that he's learned and and i think that he's probably slowly learning the other side of it and beginning to appreciate the other side of it whether it's daniel bryan or the product that he's working with an annex t because there isn't a lot of those <hes> you know freaks of nature or the superhero body characters <hes> for or individuals not so much the characters that are coming through the system at this point i mean he he needs to learn and he probably is to appreciate the semi veins and and the <hes> deanne bros is and the seth rollins of the world and i think that he is welcome to sherwin williams uh-huh hi there i heard paints or thirty percent off yup and stains to write here <hes> only your neighborhood sherwin williams store right now well august twenty ninth through september number night <hes> bringing it in. 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Member and unlock access to thirty plus years of archives of podcasts retro radio shows over fifteen hundred back issues of the progressing towards newsletter sweater dating back to the late one thousand nine hundred and get our new podcasts every single day and free and plug free not just the free ones but the exclusive ones only for v._i._p. Members including about a dozen and others per week that you can do that by becoming a v._i._p. Member full details at w. Torch v._i._p. Info dot com that's torch v._i._p. Info dot com it averages eight twenty five a month. Choose the one year option or you can go month to month for nine dollars. Ninety nine cents check out full details at w. torch v._i._p. Info dot com i would hope you'd appreciate around since when seth rollins stance next to triple h on stage taller than hunter <hes> or you know very much just right there with them. You know like i think people think seth is like the small guy only because he does moves that only guys smaller than him like having born can do <hes> and i think that has been used against some people where all you have to do is like a really good athletic spot and a big more lumbering muscular wrestler will look at you and just disqualify us because oh you're just one of those spot- monkeys and well and i yes yes and i think what you said is actually true that he's kind of a student of the people that have been in power around him. That's part of what gets passed along. The successful promoter passes along his philosophy and there's this inertia to it where that style wins out. If a promoter who promoted smaller wrestlers i was the one that through whatever connection or break or ambition went national got the deal with n._b._c. Gotta deal with u._s._a. Network <hes> and and had the right funding and the right exposure then then wrestling would be a lot more athletic in the muscular guys would be more kind of sideshow gimmicks and not the centerpiece and with <hes> <hes> or if tagged promoter who really made a lot of money will take things in addition to heavy weights then that would be a much bigger part of national wrestling today. Take teams would be something you could make them at ralway and nobody would even think it was weird. You know you just oh yeah of course broccoli sprouts midnight express. They're gonna they can headline how show where a t._v. Show so i i i think there's room for both absolutely you know i think that the person who is maybe just a fair weather. Casual wrestling fan might stop the <hes> camel changing when roz on if they see brock less nuremberg fill in the ring and go okay. I'm going to watch this and then they they they turn it off. If if with anything else you know. I think that then there's the wrestling fans who just appreciate what daniel bryan does in the ring and they're going to go. I don't wanna see <hes> you know a big show. Versus mark henry is going to be the same thing. It's boring flow. Wanna see daniel bryan versus death rollins and i think that what triple h should probably <hes> learn to do is know that there's a place for both of those and both of them can be a huge draw. I mean you can even look at boxing. You know heavyweights eight is what used to carry boxing but it was oscar de la hoya's and the <hes> sugar ray leonard that they realize man these smaller guys can draw. I mean floyd oy may weather right. Now is the biggest draw boxing look at u._s._c. I mean you have rock. Listener was the biggest draw but then you've got guys like george saint-pierre who i think is probably probably up until he left with the biggest drawing u._s._c. and was near the automobile and yeah i mean b._j. Penn drew more money than tim sylvia elvia right so yeah no absolutely and you know what the ribbon around this or my perspective on it. I think triple h is much more appreciative appreciative of diverse styles and body types vincent man but i say on a scale he's still in the top quadrant of heavyweights draw <hes> <hes> <hes> and and smaller guys. Are you know there's a slaughter to for them for those ends like see that stuff in the opening match. I still think there's too much to that in them but there's no. There's no doubt in my mind if it's like man is that ninety eight percent three blazers at seventy two and i think he's moving downward. You know i think he's moving more to that healthy middle zone of appreciating all styles and that's good i mean i get asked you know decent. Amount of the time people by email or even on the show is w._b._z. Better off or worse off than vincent man steps away interpolate triple. H takes over and i mean we don't know it's a real mixed bag. John because there's things vince has an instinct for that. No one's gonna appreciate all these on but there's things that will go away like this horrible announcing that we're getting now. We're just announcing of any era in any promotion maybe ever and it's hurting the product bruce mitchell wrote about that torch senior senior columnist practice <hes> going on twenty four years writing for the torch <hes> top analysts in top analysts in all pro wrestling and and he wrote a column in this sweet person towards weekly newsletter as every week just about and he wrote about j._b._l. And he was just like there's an easy way for w._w._e. To make more network subscribers and it won't cost another penny and he laid <music> out what j. d. I was doing wrong and what he could be doing. Instead that would make a huge difference and so there's things that when vince goes away everyone would be like oh wow i didn't even realize how good something could be. That was so awful but now it's different interpret should be sitting there going thank god. I don't have to fight vince every week on this or i haven't. I don't i have to just close my mouth. 'cause it's a it's a losing battle. There'll be so many changes that causes john. How about you. I mean. Do you have an inclination of do you think w._w._e. Offense step down tomorrow would in three years w._w. B._b. in better shape but triple h running and then if then if stays in power for three more years you know i think it's kind kind of like a seesaw effect. I think that you know majority of of <hes>. The bad is on the heavy end with vince running in at the moment <hes> but i feel feel like let's say he left morrow again with the commentating. I think that would change. I think there's certain aspects that would change but again just going off off of what you said. The gut instinct been some of those things will disappear so <hes> you might wanna. You might see that seesaw sorta go heavy on the good good. I think it's gonna even out and i think you're gonna see that there is a lot of genius events <hes> and the people that he surrounded himself with and if triple h has a brand brand new team. I think you're gonna see a lot of positives but you'll see some negatives that you missed that were still around but he's decided to go a different direction. What those are exactly. I don't think anybody knows but lake and and they they may turn out to you know bring on a new boom period and wrestling or in my opinion. I just think it's gonna even itself out where you're gonna go. He brought in these <hes> these three guys best commentators since jim ross but <hes> if you ask me if you were to if i were to have to get and i don't really watch an exte- i do we do the special that shows the takeovers. I do enjoy those and i thought that the whole product would be like that but it seems that it's just kind of a one in. I don't even know how often and they do about any other time. I've watched it honestly. It's it's been kind of painful for me to watch. I don't like the characters <hes>. I think it's it's cheesy storytelling <hes> and if that if x p is just going to be what raw going to be. I don't know that i'd be a big fan. I mean i don't like the adam rose gimmick <hes> when i watch sixty. I'm not a big fan of the guy that they're pushing. It's like a <hes> a male model <hes> you. You know there's pros and cons to annex t. I guess what i'm saying so i think it's gonna even out. I don't think it's going to be a superior product. I think it will in some aspects but i think in others. It's gonna be worse than what what is on there right now. Yeah and part of an exterior just throwing stuff against the wall. You know comes up with an idea. I think part of next is like step away. Don't don't get in the way of what somebody wants to try to see if it works and i think that's where that stuff comes from and then it gets promoted the main roster instincts. There might be a potential in it but i think if if triple h were in charge of raw there's things about annex t that he he would just filtered because it's not experimental. It's the final product <hes> we're going to visit that filter should be they should be going through that on the way to being on rock is i feel like outside of the shield and the only one that popped in my head is adam road so i apologise. Maybe there's more and i'm wrong but the adam rose one is exactly the same character that was on annex t end her it didn't go through a filter and adapt to the main roster right character right here and that could just be a matter just yeah it was a character that was destined to not work. Either annexed here the main roster but it was kind of the last chance you know to to get something out of him. Since he's in his mid thirties then it got immediately good good reviews news. It was like whoa this this. This might work but you know we've we've acted on this show and i think you might have even back last time you're on in the sense that we don't adam rose's all arena princeton for instance the bell rings. It's like fence ready to move on because we've never and again this part. Partly the bat announcing. We don't know we know nothing about him. He doesn't seem to take his job seriously. He's like he's. He's all ring entrance no substance and they haven't taken the character beyond the initial been yet so it's just it's just <hes> a confetti show for how for an early house show match to you know i mean that's all it's just it's just it's just glitter and there's no substance and it's just there for show. It was like what was is what <hes> i was gonna say p._m. News i was going way back. <hes> brought his clay. When i think of berkeley i think a peon news. I don't know why i do <hes> so you know for. It was klay with i i mean i saw the second assault character it was this is vince mcmahon slot for a high energy. We don't take ourselves too seriously lower card how show gimmick and it does it's not going to have upward mobility and it'll be replaced in a year or two with something else and that's kind of what i saw him. Rosas once it's became pretty clear there was one layer to him and nothing more more yeah i think the end result is always that they have to get in the ring and compete at nat character. Gives me no reason to want to do that. Agreed agreed say metro by t mobile at the best deal in wireless and it's all for you all from me just switch quickly because metro has to land for eighty and to samsung some galaxy j sevenstock bones for free plus amazon prime included. That's the way while is should be only at metro sales tax inactivation fifty dollars l. a. plus rate plan required not valid for numbers currently on t. mobile network on metro and past ninety days offer subject to change offer valid for new amazon prime members amazon prime twelve ninety nine per month restrictions apply see store for details and terms and conditions additions. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between the life. You want to live cd medic. Targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._d. Medic available online and at c._v._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease <music> if you're just joining us. This is the p. w. Torch live cast we are on the air live monday through friday. The only live five day week pro wrestling show. Oh we're approaching five years on the air this winter and we appreciate your support. You can subscribe to listen. I tunes and we really appreciate when you give us a five star rating. If you enjoy the show and leave comments letting other people browsing. I tunes looking for a wrestling podcast worth their time. If you're a fan of this show there's no better way to help us grow and show support then telling other our people why they should choose us and subscribe to us and sample our show so i have a couple minutes godi tunes that is great. <hes> we <hes> you can find all the links to all of our social media and r._s._s. feeds and subscribing on your phones podcast device by going to be w torch live cast dot com. That's also where you can stream the show live and where you can listen on delay which is what most of you do. We have a nice live listenership. The vast majority listened to delay through tunes or podcast or streaming on that site so go to torch live cast dot com that also tell you what the next show is and upcoming guests and as i said earlier matt sidell evan bourne my guest next thursday hey on the p._o._w. Torch live cast on wednesday are away champion. Michael elgin was with pat mcneill <hes> on interview wednesday pat mcneil's interview on wednesday was michael hogan the week before it was kamala that ugandan giant with pat mcneill on wednesday show so check that out when you get a chance but like i said we're here five days a week different hosts different different mixes different formats every day and you can check them all out at a chance on us and i think you will enjoy it. We got some. I get some real gratifying emails just about every day from people signing up <hes> telling me their story about why they delayed why they procrastinated and what it was talked him into doing it and then they just rave about all this stuff on the other side of of <hes> the v._i._p. Wall so don't be left out. Check it out on your torch. Dot com slash kgo v._i._p. X. w._w._e. Creative team member john pierre marini is my guest and it's time to go to phone lines and he will callers want to bring up to listen. We'll begin with a v._i._p. Member speaking a witch lewis from new jersey. Is this hugh yes. Hold on. Let me turn off must be of course yeah okay <hes> yes. I actually have three things you want me to ask them all at once or you. Use your best judgment if they're complicated giving them one at a time if you can rattle them off i'll take notes and we'll just hit all three <hes> okay now. I actually yeah yeah from all three all three of them. Those sure all right <hes>. My first question is about okay looking. I'm actually a therapist on the outside. I can't help like when you when you talk about all that creative <hes> you know the creative team stress and not getting your efforts recognized and whatnot that usually <hes> a a lot of job stress creates a lot of cops but then gossip of course into trouble so my question. Is you know how like how much do the crease dot with uncommon uncommon topics and how scared were you guys that you guys are gonna get car. That's not a three part question but it's fairly simple <hes> <hes> a second question that i have is. I just wanna know <hes>. It seemed like to me. Wrestlemania twenty six is being like just last minute. <hes> seen veep punk and ramos junior kind of just got thrown in there because they wanted to master. Both of those guys would be on the car so i just want to know like what was going on with that. If it was extra put together last minute relaxed monopoly. I just wanna know what wrestlers do you remember. You know under actually no. It's not that question and i want to know whether or not there is a chain of command in the rain seemed like a or an unofficial chain of command. Where like hey you know like if your lowest on the totem pole of your the new creative writer you don't touch a certain match or you punches certain wrestling so that's my three questions school john you're ready to tackle those <hes> we heard one going down there with the gossip either way up with whatever's brushing your mind. I'll start with the third one which is <hes> a chain of command in the way that you asked it. There's a yes or no to it <hes> in if i'm going to pitch a story yeah absolutely if i want to pitch a story with the brand new story for john zena. It's not ah they tell you. How dare you pitch story for john cena. Why aren't you coming up test or <hes> <hes> kofi kingston <hes> so but yeah. He's the go to guy. When you're talking about some lower mid card guys there was when i was there and i know that there's like thirty guys there here now. I don't know how it's determined to does what but when i was there and i was on the raw team and then there were smackdown ec w in the n._f._c. so it's all separate and the hierarchy went brian words dave to pour me and then we had <hes> an assistant ryan ward and to to say that yes there there was a chain of command and you don't touch some guys when i got there <hes> i would get the the low level undercard talent how it had a promo or even a dark match promo. It was all just to kinda see okay. Let's see what you've got and then as time goes by while i never surpassed ask date kapoor brian words yeah there was times i worked with sina. There was times. I i had the the main event segment. <hes> there were times that you know i had if the words put himself with somebody and then kapor had the the level down then obviously i'm gonna get the guy below that <hes> but then there was there was times when we would go to smackdown and while i did and i kind of answered the question for the punk ray mysterious area so bleed into that one <hes> well. I didn't necessarily know long-term plan so much for for smackdown. I would be given <hes> a smackdown talent to write for and it varies from again undercard to main event so no it's not you can't touch this person but all right you showed up and it was your second week on the job and you know that <hes> there's a roman reigns randy orton promo in in the crossover segment from our two three and you say hey let me have that promo. I mean you have to have a pretty good explanation. Why you believe you should be the writer on that. <hes> but then the puck ramos story that was that was all a smackdown story going into wrestlemainia wrestlemainia again. We were still separated. We worked on the raw story. They worked on the smackdown stories and it t._v. While i might be assigned sian peng during wrestlemainia season i was just going off based on what it is that they had planned and sometimes i didn't even know what they had planned in the next week so it was hard for me to to really <hes> push that that story which is a complaint that i always had <hes> and that's where you see inconsistencies in the stories. Could you have a guy like me writing for <hes> the c._m._o. A._m. funk stereo story and i have no idea what's happening next week or three weeks down the line but that was always a match we had planned for a long time. <hes> it's so long ago. I can't did you details on it but i can tell you that. It wasn't something that we threw together. Maybe it came across that way in the storytelling but that was that was a major match. I think for smacking. I think that was the number two maybe the number three <hes> as far as priority on the smackdown brand for wrestlemainia at the time and then goss up <hes>. I mean there's gossip everywhere i i. I don't know if you know from the standpoint that you're talking about that. It was the stress that caused it. I just think that it was you know when you're in high school. That's your entire world. That's all you know high school so <hes> i think it was like that with w w we all lived in this bubble and there was nothing else surrounding us except for that so when it came to <hes> girls when it came to friends when it came to enemies when it came to <hes> shooting the shit i mean it was all about that people people in that bubble so i don't think anyone ever i mean there would be things where hey <hes>. I saw this or i heard this and you know. Don't repeat this because i don't want it to get back to the locker room but yeah i saw this happened but i don't think it was ever any one was <hes> you know telling secrets and say hey you know i can't even think of an example but i i don't know. I don't think that they were more there than there would be anywhere else really unless i wasn't that involved in it. I mean most of the gossip that i had was <hes> a lot of like when i'm on wage show a lot of what i say on this show <hes> minus things that i kind of don't reveal <hes> is the same thing that would happen on the car ride from raw to smackdown where it was just i second eighteen the show and talking about what we liked what we didn't like what we wish they would have done <hes> what we could have done differently ourselves <hes> or hey you know to really go this direction or can you believe that then shot this down. This you know brian didn't approve me saying writing this for swagger. Whatever may be <hes> so you know. I don't think that i don't think if you walked in there. As a fly on the wall you would really get too much gossip from the writing team the the wrestler's. I don't know the the divas. I don't know i guess the divas yeah. I mean there was always there was always some story. One of them would would say to get themselves in a better position over over the other ones because at the time those girls were they were jeez. I don't know a dozen or more fighting for three minutes on the show every week and it was usually just to the girl so <hes> hopefully that answers your question. How much was there of and of just gossiping <hes> that you observed or heard of who's dating who who's hooking up with who who's interested in like that it's like the personal life stuff i mean that just happens in anywhere writers ah do the where were you when you were there among the writers. Was there talk about oh. Did you hear this guy is dating. This guy does diva. No i mean the only time anything would ever happen happen with would be like if if someone flirt with you and then you hear it for weeks upon weeks on how that girl is flirting with you or <hes> <hes> you know steph steph was nice so you're now you know steps boy or whatever but <hes> no i. I don't think we ever really talked about <hes> was dating who <hes> yeah. I know that when i was there <hes> ms was dating marie and and they weren't really telling too many people and then when it finally came out that they had been dating for. I think like going on two years or something. At the time i remember even brian words was like wow i mean. I was writing a story that they were dating and i didn't even know that they were dating. Wow that's that's interesting all right. Oh i got another email question. This is an interesting one in light of our discussion earlier about commanded triple h and different styles of promoting tom from u._k. Emails and says what year in w._w._e. History do you think most fits vince mcmahon's idea of a great wrestling promotion and if it was guaranteed to make the same amount of money whatever creative route they took would he prefer nineteen eighties rock and wrestling attitude era or or something else this this would probably shock you but i think right now and i think that he has disdain for a lot other things that happened in each one of those eras and i think that he's learned in this is just in his mind. I think that he's learned from his mistakes aches and what was great about that era and what was bad about it and this is what he sees wrestling being in his eyes. I mean this is the best product right now because vince mcmahon ultimately could make either one of those eras return but this right and there's there's a lotta times to where you know. I grew up with with the hogan era. I don't know what they call that the comedian era right wrestling a little bit. I guess you you know what's called house. Yeah i started after rock and wrestling. I came in like wrestlemainia five yeah so <hes> i liked using a lot of that storytelling storytelling or or character <hes> not not like you know again not not the goon but you know having guys have a character and learning who they are and and even the squash matches and <hes> just just a lot from that era and was a huge attitude era too and a lot. I watched a lot of w._c._w. And i took a lot awesome everything and there'd be times where you would take something from from that time frame and vince would just be like that's trite. I don't like it. This isn't wrassling you you know and i think that he truly feels that. The best of every era is incorporated in the current era era that we're in and he thinks that this is the best product he's at now. Does he think that <hes> he'd rather have stone cold steve austin and hulk hogan and there primes right now absolutely i don't i think from talent level he would probably prefer to go back to you know when he raided all the <hes> the territory's or even had everybody main event how it but i think as far as storytelling and then this is what w._w._e. Is i honestly truly feel. He thinks right. Now is the best every sunday night catch wrestling night in america on p._w. Torch taylor cast dot com hosted by me. W. torch columnist greg parks each week. I'll welcome a co host from the torch family to discuss the shows and pro wrestling taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight pm eastern on sunday nights with the w._w._e. Or impacts pay-per-view we go on the air at the conclusion of that pay per view. You can listen live but of course the full shows available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit p._w. Torch daily cast dot com and click. The livestream linked to find the next scheduled live show link search p._w. Torture apple podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe wrestling night in america every sunday p._w. Torch daily tasks dot com. Just it's happening. Well not know what are you doing in my car. Space is here now. No closet will be left behind tuesday closets. Yes the container store. Custom closets are up to twenty five percent off. It doesn't matter the size size or shape space is coming to them. All you're not serious space joke jess. How long do we have through october thirteenth. Alright buckle up the container store. Custom closet sale is here with two twenty five percent off all systems including alpha the container store where space comes from. It's cutting into your exercise time. It's stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. You want to live cd medic targets. Get your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free boil. Get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available global online and at c._v._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease yeah yeah it's like if you're a mac and cheese kinda sewer and you had your way of making it when you were a kid and then away in college and then weigh in your twenties and now you've got a family and you're in your thirties or forties and you make it and someone said which way do you like best how dumb an answer what if he is oh. I like the best when i was in high school. Like why would you make it differently now than the best way you like like unless you're trying to save money or you know be healthier. I guess there's yes. There's a catch to the answer but the analogy holds in in the sense of why would man not promote what he felt was best the catch. I guess john would be maybe vince would like to promote differently but he feels that the publicly held company and with the p._g. P._g. <hes> approach sold the sponsors answers that he's actually just white knuckling his way through rivalry week because there's so much he wants to do that. He can't because he's constrained by his own p._g. Rating or sensors advertisers or u._s._a. Networking do you think there's any any elements of that that goes into what we see on t._v. Maybe but the whole the whole p._g. Aspect <hes> wall. I think it had a lot to do with linda running. <hes> you know i think if you look at and weighed you able to answer this but i think that if you looked at the money money that he makes now with sponsorship in a p._g. Environment compared to losing a lot of the sponsors yet going going back to a raunchy product or even not even being raunchy. Let's just say an attitude era product. I think that the money would even out if he truly you felt that that would draw but i think to. There's this love affair with the attitude era. I loved it as well but it's fit the time there was jerry springer. There was with girls gone wild. We got day go ahead. They bloom where people could watch anything they wanted. If they you know there was there was poor and everybody there was youtube and i think that it's fit that time today. It wouldn't wouldn't work as well oh. I still think that there's elements of today that w._w._e. In and graphing. I think a lot of what people are drawn to on t._v. Is is like the darker aside of characters storytelling. I think that that's why they got behind the shield. They got behind bray wyatt. I mean there's no elements really of say breaking bad or the walking dead on w._w._e. Right now they're going more so towards <hes> shows that aren't popular today day but something that vince can reflect back on and go. This is what p._g. Is to me and it's it's you know you have a twenty something core audience audience but you're selling them an eight year old product but that eight year old viewership product but eight year olds don't wanna watch eight year old t._v. Show they want. They wanna be cool. What's the walking dead so i think <hes> maybe vince fields handcuffed you know and and it feels like there are things that he can do but i truly feel like in convinces mind when i was there and we were starting to get some of these bigger sponsors. He was so proud of that and he wanted to get that and i think that he just wants w._w._e. To be part of society not a circus. It's not what people laugh at and i think that he feels that w._w. Legitimize and his goal has been reached when he can get <hes> hep z. colgate these these huge companies these staples to <hes> to sponsor his show so i think yeah i think that there's elements of it with <hes> with lauda <hes> talking about <hes> when when we had the the malaysia airlines and and brush 'em may or may not have been involved and he went right to that so while i think he wishes he could go to that well <hes> and not be punished or ridiculed for it <hes> <hes>. I think that that's maybe the extent to where he wishes. He could take the gloves off but i don't think he he wants to run out there and <hes> you know do <hes> sable stripping down to just pasties or <hes> whatever else they did in the attitude era so yes in rated r. The rate at our sex show with leading edge or are cannery and you know. I think it's getting by it. Don't get me wrong. Yeah i but you know like four gambler. Ah i remember when we were doing <hes> annex t the like the original format of it i think it was it was season one the i._t. I keep pitched in a production meeting. Let's and it was the day of what are we gonna do for this episode and it was like a rewrite. He didn't like it. He wanted to offer him. He was why was into it and to be honest. I mean i was into it too. I just from from the standpoint of being a fan you know. Is it great for the product no right right but i wanted to see it. Yeah you know kevin dunn shot him down. He was like oh man. He wanted to do it and who i missed who you said pitched it vince vince themselves. That's okay yup yeah so credit. I that's what i thought you said. Kevin dunn shot it down. I'm like well kevin. Don went to shot down bits. <hes> kevin kevin done does it h- usually shootdown vince but i think he's he'll also <hes> i think it might have even been somewhere along the lines of well. I don't think that's a good idea for x. Y. z. and i don't remember the reason but <hes> hey you wanna do it but i. I don't think we should but hey if you wanna do it. Yeah you don't you when you're with someone that long and you've learned to kick somebody's ass dough. Perfect knows how to say no without saying no and get vince to go okay okay i won't do it and it's my idea that i'm not doing it right. Yes well. It's triple h h. Says vince is really good at listening to other people and you think it's a compliment and then he pauses and then he goes and he listened a lot of ideas. He's really good at that. He'll digest the idea you know pick a couple couple days to think about it and you're like he's about to say something about fence and then he goes and then on the third or fourth day he picks the best opinion or the best idea and claims it as his own and claims he can help with it but you know what if you just want the product to be better you know to to degree if it doesn't hurt your your payroll or your job security. You know if the boss wants to kind of take credit for it and that's the game. That's played them soviet. Well i mean you're you're there to feed him ideas so that he can decide what he wants to do. With is product yo ultimate league pays you for your ideas so that they can become his idea right yup. That's how three m works. You know they they innovate with a lot of cool products but the people that work there get a guaranteed salary to come up with nineteen bad ideas and one that works and three m pays for all the research and all the you know the legal searches to make sure that it's not already patented and that kind of thing and then when something gets huge the person goes yeah invented post it notes and they go well. What did you get from it. Three times may billions. He goes my sixty eight thousand dollars salary career my eight hillary and people like that's a rip-off he goes well not really because you should see all the bad ideas that i would have run out of that would have run out of money. Try to a bunch of bad ideas and never caught on until then and that's kind of it. You know he's like i want your ideas but in the end you know they're going to be my ideas and i'm gonna get credit or blame because i approve disapprove of those ideas right exactly yeah uh it's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life. You want to live cd medic. Targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free him boil. Get back to your life with c._d. Medic available online at c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain pain and it's getting in between you in life. You want to live cd medic target. Your pain added source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available online and c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose. I know street cure or prevent any disease. Let's go to phone call here. Let's go to erica three one four. I think the saint louis please state your name and confirmed the city or at damian from saint louis zoo damian. What have you got <hes> john marini today well. I just have a couple of questions. I saw <hes> close to how the acting good ideas and as the final say so in those ideas times the figure like okay especially with the script the past week and how everything in the final product from that he's i think would be you only have that sense or this sort of work because it's not worth john. Did you pick that up. I'm sorry i didn't get a lot of it was ever connections are great but just in one the sentence talking to the phone i heard enough right can restate it but is your question. We'll go ahead and summarize your question because i got a lot of the bits and pieces but i'm not exactly sure the core question washing okay so in one st do when he was a part of the writing team john did. Did you ever get that feeling like why did you decide. He didn't work did not versus what was ended up on the final so you wanna know did they did. We have an idea as to why did or didn't work okay okay. I just want to work. I just want to know what the thought process was of house luigi whereas back then compared to how i would now when it comes to okay and what what did yeah i i don't know <hes> i don't know the thought process of the creative team now because i don't know what percentage of their ideas are being used compared to vince or our triple h but <hes> when i was there there was a conflicting thought processes is the way i thought was because i saw a lot of we've got you know the last few months or few years left of the top guy and we're going to run with them and and mine and and a lot not not a lot but a few other people were okay. We have a few months or a few years left of these other guys then what because we're in no position right now out to have guys replaced him and that's ultimately what happened. Was you had to leave you at jericho. Leave you had sean lee triple. H stopped wrestling on a regular basis just staying with undertaker and then there was nothing there was just oh <hes> okay well <hes> this guy's getting put into a spot and and i think <hes> i think at that point it was like ri- back <hes> when they first started with his push or <hes> you know punk even by default. I i think kind of just you know went from a. b. player to an eight player just because he was top list <hes> but i and again. I'm sorry if i don't quite understand your question but i think you just wanted to know like the book and philosophy at the time but i don't know what you mean by what working ho ho ho jon damon okay well by is okay well you pitching. How did it shut down that okay. Do you always have that feeling like it did work and if yes you just is get frustrated amongst your sale that that didn't work and then you can go with the private property. That's what i was asking about. Oh yeah i mean yeah. That was yeah yeah that was that was my every day experience. Here's an idea. I personally think it's good or i run it by. Certain people who i would say it's good i mean god. There'd be meetings right pitch things to vincent. He'd love it and you know the next day if brian words didn't like it would be forgotten and i could go building and go. Hey are we going to go with this. <hes> you know we're going to do this instead or what am i gonna do over. Bryant knock on the door and say you know i won't let us do this story <hes> but you just have to you know and i've said this before and they eventually you know i wrote at the time <hes> <hes> for myself but also to what i felt could be great for the product and innocence try to revolutionize the product into something that could be great. I mean that's why i went there. I want to do something where when i leave i know i changed the company and and you know a year and a half into it. You start doing all right well. What's going to get brian to go okay. We'll add that into the show so you get beat down on and i can't speak for the current product or current writing situation <hes> because i know that brian doesn't oversee it at the moment but <hes> yeah you you beat yourself up so much that you start going. I know this could work and i know not every idea i have is going to work but one of these is going to work one of the i put so much effort <hes> blood sweat and tears into coming up with this didn't with the talent talking with the talent over the boats i so much time away from your friends and family and go like all right. I finally got this is it. I'm ready to fix it and then if ignored or it's going oh you <hes> you have in week three <hes> this guy facing curtis axel well. We wouldn't do that so it's like whoa so the whole story dead. Why can't we just put another. He'll in there and then you just start going all all right fine and you start you start pitching for brian or for vis and ultimately that's kind of what led to me go and i throw my hands up and i'm leaving <hes> <hes> but i don't know how it is today very because he had you've had matt mccarthy on. I don't know if he's yeah. He's said anything similar to that. In in the sense of you know he picked his brains out and nothing ever gets used and he just kind of threw his hands up and said whatever whatever you want alright alright well yeah and i think i think every writer who's been on the show. It's talked about a certain level of frustration that kicks in at some point where you just understand that there's a way that things are done and you have to have some level of humility that maybe there's a good reason for this. I don't understand yet in overtime figure it out and then there's also the level of frustration which is they don't listen to any voice. They're stuck in their ways and it's institutionalized than it's bad for the product and you spend your time trying to figure out. Is it ninety ten or ten ninety. You know how how frustrated should i be versus. How much should could i just kind of wait around 'cause someday i'll get it. You know it's like people say you know you grow you. You're destined to be your parents. When you get older and your there's absolutely no way and then by the time you're you know you know a certain in asia like oh now i get why you know whatever so it's a mix of those two things and it's probably in any corporate culture when new people show up they their bread i bushy tailed ready contribute ideas and shake things up and there's a whole institution of of people in methodologies that got people to the point that they're at that they're scared to shake up and part out of a corporation is finding that balance between honoring tradition and introducing new ideas and w._w._e. In pittsburgh manner probably at fault for you know being somewhat limited unless their backs against the wall and accepting new ideas and the attitude era was born out of in great part being scared because a competitor was doing a better job than them two things. Did you know one thing i do regret. Is i mean i had my reasons for leaving but you know sometimes i do sit back and think of if i would just stuck it out and and i would have even known own this was gonna happen so there's not really much that can beat myself up about but if i if i would have stuck it out until brian was relieved of his position or whatever ever it is that they relegated him to you know. How much of a difference could i have made. How could i did you know put in that spot. Where could at least i could. The had a better vehicle to get my ideas used and i and i still to this day. Wonder that <hes> but you know <hes> what what can you do. It and i think you do see at least from my perspective watching it as someone who's going okay. How is this pitched or whose idea was this or. Are you know does this look like something that they had planned or something. They just threw together. I do notice a lot now that there seems to be a lot more involvement goldman with the undercard that we talked about when we first started this conversation and a lot more different types of ideas and philosophies used within the show that i do think that they're bringing in these guys from from hollywood that are lasting you know. Three months and these guys are coming in and going okay. I know storytelling and i know what i need to get across but i need everybody's help because i don't necessarily know wrestling psychology <hes> <hes> i don't know how to properly lay out <hes> story that you know the way vince likes it so i think you see a lot of ideas ideas from a lot of the different writers and it's a guest <hes> used throughout the show and and it would have been a great <hes> time for me when i look at it and doing i think i would fit in better now than i than i did in two thousand nine and two thousand ten and while i'm proud of the accomplishments equipments that i was able to contribute to the product <hes> i think that i would have been able to accomplish a lot more just based on what i see but then again it could be worse now. I don't know yeah yeah yup very good. Say metro about t. Mobile get the best deal in wireless and it's all for you all for me just switch quickly because metro it has to lance but eighty and to samsung galaxy j seven stopped bones for free plus amazon prime included. That's the way wireless should be only at metro. The sales tax and activation fee fifty dollars plus rate plan required not valid for numbers currently on t. mobile network on metro and past ninety days offers subject to change offer valid for new amazon prime members amazon prime has a twelve ninety nine per month. The restrictions apply see store for details and terms and conditions. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. Oh aw it's pain and it's getting between you in the life. You want to live c._b._d. Medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus plus the added benefits of t._h._c. hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available online at c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease the wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life well. We're those kind of people to but we do so with mixed martial arts robber via hosts hosts of enemy talk for pro wrestler advanced every monday on w. torches daily cast lineup not only we do. We cover every u. Of c. bella tour event we provide context. Only a wrestling fan would really understand. I mean we're the type of people that if you ask ask us about how much of a mess the middleweight title situation is were likely to reference w._c._w. In the early nineties they give us as a podcast for casual m._m._a. Fence done by hardcore wrestling nerves and you could find us by searching p._w. Torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast and were always available on demand at p. He w torch daily cast dot com where you can check out the entire lineup of the p._d. Towards david tests got another good follow up email. We'll you say that for the v._i._p. After show <hes> from a listener asking tying it into current events and the story line going on with stephanie nikki bell in fact john we didn't get to pretty much anything that i <hes> <hes> in our <hes> email exchange that we were gonna get through today so we'll do that in the v._i._p. After show it just a couple of minutes here i do. I do wanna know that we've had just had some great interviews this summer since since john was last on the show including xbox sean walton one of my favorite guests on the show provides so much insight into how w._w._e. Operates he <hes> he talks so freely talked about his reaction to the streak ending <hes> why he was the first pitch to triple h that roman reigns could be a blue chip top player and this was when raines was frustrated with the lack back of progress in developmental his reaction to see punk silence and more that was back on june twentieth. You can find these shows when you go v._i._p. By the way there's a drop menu on torch dotcoms uh-huh membership page p._o._w. Torch dot com plus members. There's a drop menu and it's just w torch passed interviews and when you choose that option you can scroll through years and years and years of interviews and download l. motor stream whatever it is you're in the mood to listen to pat mcneil in june interviewed joel gertner former ec w announcement during the live cast john anything you wanna plug <hes> twitter for any projects coming up anything people look for <hes> no not really you. Don't want people to on twitter anymore. I don't blame you say what it's the john as himself. Feel free to follow me <hes> and <hes> projects. I mean yeah. Maybe maybe on one of the future shows. I may actually have <hes> <hes> some fun stuff to announce it. Your yours might actually be interested in but <hes> nothing <hes> finalized at the moment go up all right well. It's been a great discussion and it's gonna continue now on the other side of the music. We're going to go to the v._i._p. After show i think everybody for joining us and if you <hes> we didn't get to you on the phone banks. Just drop me an email right now especially if you're a v._i._p. Member with your your question p._o._w. Torch live cast at g. l. dot com. We do not take calls on v._i._p. After show but we do answer email questions and another perk going vs. You don't have to listen. Listen to my long plugs telling you why v._i._p. So cool <hes> those get edited out of the v._i._p. Version along with plugs for our sponsors so <hes> that's for some of you at this specific. Moment might be a real incentive kind of so <hes> go v._i._p. For three thirty three all right <hes> thank you everybody wants again <hes> bruce mitchell and travis bryant. It'll be by on monday and then next. I wednesday pat mcneill be hosting <hes> with another interview. I don't think he told me who's got lined up but then next thursday especially thursday interview i'll be hosting and matt sidell. Maybe better known as evan bourne will be my guest well not we're not gonna move to the after show and talk about current events and w._w._e. Including listeners sina hype get john's opinion on that <hes> i should roman reigns faced triple h between now in wrestlemainia and if so what are what circumstances we'll talk about the stephanie bella storyline and <hes> and also that email question related to that so thanksgiving everybody and thanks john piermarini and on the other side of music the remembers hold tight some good discussion yet to come <music> all right john. I know you told me off air on the after show you had one of the most incredible things in stories to share that you would ever shared and that you only wanted to do on v._i._p. V._i._p. So why don't you go ahead and tell that story now to go away. That wasn't you that was somebody else. Sorry john all right. You're you're like wait a second. No i just did that because now you know all the non v._i._p. Members might sign up and then they'll find out that i'm unscrupulous in my in my boss but that's that's a good cook right joe well. You know there's there's gonna be if i keep that in and donate it out. There's going to be some people who signed up just for that reason go jeez. That's that's trust us. Wait ever again all right. I've done that other times. No one's complained so i kind of that anyhow all right well. Let's start off with his email because it's interesting email from from somebody who i think was <hes> listening to the show here and let me <hes>. I brought it up on my phone. That's already here all right. This comes from a devon devon. He says my main gene issue with the bella. Twins storyline is that the motivation behind the character's actions are not really coherent when <hes> john was around how much time they did the writer spend vetting stories or altering altering angles to make sure that there were no nor excuse me that there were no holes in each character was acting logically and rationally based on their stated motivation goals and example of clarify point nikki hates briefer stealing all her boyfriends and all the other things mentioned in the growing up bella segment well. If that's true then breeze a bad sister nicky is not really the he'll here but it's nikki's lying and making these stories up then why exactly issue matic doesn't seem like the current creative team and vince bothering to make sure their stories actually make sense <hes> yeah i i i i think he just summed up the whole story in why okay 'cause i thought the same thing when i was watching in those growing up ehlers segments i was thinking all right so breeze the he'll or is she lying and breathes gonna have this moment a to be able to say you know. All those stories are true except that was you nikki. You know <hes> you almost leave the audience audience to wonder ago okay well. I guess i don't really like three right now. I it's almost like the same thing with <hes> with the daniel. Bryan is cheating on brief story. It's like well get. It's not really that cool dude because you never had him. Come out and say hey not true guys. I know i agree for like interviews segment right before majid somerset. I think she said something like stephanie came in and told that the big fabricated lies about about daniel bryan but i mean how do we know that that's not daniel bryan. Go and that's a lie and her going. I knew it you know what i mean. We had no oh come to if that was a liar not <hes> but yeah. I don't know how i could really add anything to to his answer because it's one of those those two things either bree is is the bad guy and you know it's horrible storytelling or nikki's lying but why isn't anyone coming out and disputing disputing these claims <hes> unless they're just unless vince feels or the writing team feels that they're so wacky that nobody would believe it's possible but i mean but even so then why does nikki not like three why she he'll. Why did she turn on her sister. 'cause like i mean i i. I just haven't thought about this and vince would be like oh. It doesn't matter if we just wanna fans to feel a certain emotion in the moment and not think too hard about it and for a lot of fans. That might be enough but you're leaving behind you care about that stuff yeah. I think it was mostly. We need a finish to this match and this is the finish and so after that we need to come up with a reason and it seems like an important aspect aspect of the show because stephanie is involved but typically it would have just been just. We don't need to give an explanation. It's it's the fixed thing on the list of things that we're trying to get across on the show this week but i would think it's a top priority at least for stephanie <hes> to try to go. Hey where's this going and who knows. You know maybe down online. You'll get more of a reason <hes> or maybe it's you know it's that pushback where <hes> stephanie is really into something vince isn't and ventures gonna ultimately without go. I don't know i don't want any of the said. Just go out there and get it over with but i think if you know the question was trying to make some sense of it and i think you could still sort of make sense of it in the sense <hes>. Maybe you know heels typically believe leave the b._s. That they say and i maybe nicky felt like bree was the the golden golden child and she always did everything right. Nikki did everything wrong and and <hes> you know she's jealous. That bree got married and of course she's gonna go <hes> <hes> you married that go space guy but in reality she's going god. I really wish that was me and <hes> and then so so <hes> bree you know and they went into w._w._e. Together as a team and brief sort of abandoned her for her husband. It's been and you know maybe nicky could tell a story of that. Situation has come up before but i always chose you and i think they even touched on that a little bit where she was like it quit for me and he said no and so it was like i've lost my sister and on top of me losing my sister she kinda stab. It's being the back because i was getting my ass kicked for a month and you decided that it was more important for you to stand up for your husband and to save me and we were in the womb together and this is this is what i get so yes screw you. I hate you because i'm jealous of everything and you turn your back on me and you chose somebody over me and i don't have that other person where she might have done the same thing with sina but she doesn't have that opportunity so it makes sense to me in a story standpoint. If you could get that deep into it tell the story and go you turn your back on me and and i i hate you for it you you chose daniel bryan over blood over your own sister and hate you and it's that simple and if i ever see your face again then so be it and i'll never shed a tear over it truly. Do you ruined my life. I'm gonna ruin yours. Welcome to sherwin williams hi there i heard paints or thirty percent off yup and stains to write here <hes> only at your neighborhood sherwin williams store door right now august twenty ninth through september ninth <hes> bring it in. I'm a big hugger. It's chole ask sherwin williams august twenty nine through through september ninth and save thirty percent on paints and stains with sale prices starting at twenty six ninety four only at your local sherwin williams store retail sales. Only some exclusions apply see store for details. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between view in life. You want to live cd medic. Targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get back to your life with c._d. Medic available online and at c._v._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease yeah and that's the thing i think part of what fans relate to when it comes to heels is they wanna understand what made somebody turn on. Someone we understand bad why paul orndorff turned on hulk hogan but we also think paul orndorff greatly overreacted do his own faults and insecurities and jealousies he's and so with nikki she can have a a reason that is actually true to turn on and she can dwell on it and china shine a spotlight on it but the reaction of the fans is a overreacting to your your being petty and jealous and and three i just don't like your attitude in in how you decided to deal with this and you just need to shut up already like that's what can turn her heel and there's you know there's some of those elements are there but you know breed needs to and that's something that i think vince has just gone baby. Faces need to actually be given a chance to say this is this is not true in here. It's the truth and and you don't give them proper attention to giving their side of the story and it's strange but sometimes that does get left out. I think too and and again just to play devil's advocates a bit or stephanie. Whoever it is in charge of the story is that you know. I think that if you took this story and you said is the goal to to make free a huge star in the divas division or just in the company in general <hes> and that's where he thinks that they're going they're. I'm doing a horrible job but it could also be that we're going to use bree to make stephanie a bigger. He'll and we're gonna we're gonna ultimately use nikki not in an effort to <hes> help stephanie in whatever way and so if we if we crap all over brie so be it. That's not our goal here. Goal is to build stephanie league stephanie to ultimately. I tried to stay towards one <hes>. Get hers against somebody else. You know and <hes> well i. I don't necessarily a hundred percent agree with that. I can at least see the philosophy you. Why are we gonna invest letting bree. Kinda get over on stephanie when ultimately were saving for somebody else. I and i think you can compare that to if you watch you know a movie or a t._v. Show and you see <hes> your top. He'll get over on <hes> a d- list or maybe not a d. list but like the the force. I'm trying to think of example as i'm talking about. I can't think of them but you know the <hes> the the first baby face in the movie that the he'll comes across. They're just gonna like that. Personnel you know and it's and it's to build to win spiderman or whoever it is finally gets to that he'll the only the end and that the baby face at the beginning might shine a little bit but you're not gonna get too much it showcase the heel and maybe that's just what they're doing and i i think that <hes> i could be wrong and they could just be completely messing it up but that's where my guess would be and if that's the case case i would be okay with it because i think ultimately if you look at the performance that three is giving she's not winning anybody over as far as breaking out and if if the whole goal was to have her breakout of this nikki's the one and i'm not by no means endorsing nikki and being amazing in this story but she's showing a lot more than brees. She's surprising people with her. I mean she's she's landed in the group that she's good at. You know that these kind of prerecorded segments it's looking at the camera and making these preposterous petty claims are <hes> you know. It's it's it's up rally more than whatever has been asked for before but yeah. I'm curious to see where this goes along with. You know i t's giving you know this incredible backstage story and all that i i i. I'm not gonna totally made it up but i wanna make good on <unk> on giving a couple of backstage insights on how stephanie's perceived behind the scenes <hes> because i think that's fascinating. She's put herself out there on t._v. I commented with jason. Some pollen tuesday's live cast. I think stephanie is either really good too spectacularly good on air and then there's this whole middle zone that she never hits and then there's times where she just awful channel dusing awful and completely on self-aware counterproductive and it's just weird because she doesn't really fall in the middle very often and and there's times where i'm like that was good. She belongs on t._v. More of that and then like two weeks later. She'll be on and i'll just be grown and going my god. She has no self perception of what her strengths are and that was just totally undercut everybody and and everybody who's in the ring with and she just suck the oxygen out of the room. <hes> your opinion on stephanie's performances you can react to that but also it perception of stephanie as a boss but also somebody who puts herself out there as a performer. Do people walk around thinking steps cool. <hes> i'm i work under her but she's you know knows he's relaxed and it's relaxing to be around or or is everyone just really you know like at maybe her wish <hes> unedu- around her in treating her like like you better not sneezing the veterans around her and look at her the wrong way like what what's the backstage interaction and perception among people work for her yeah when i was there she <music> <hes> had just had <hes> gosh what was it like third child and so she was in the office all the time he was never on t._v. <hes> and then probably i don't know after about being there a year. She started coming to t._v. More often and getting more involved backstage with producing gene backstage segments and kind of working with the divas but <hes> as far like i think it was it was she was seeing different rent by different people and for the writing team <hes> i got along with her great loved working with her. I you know her door was was always open. I always run things by her. Ask her opinion of things and i always thought the experience with her was great but then you hear other people who just could not stand her and you know i don't i don't know why and you had every every reason they gave i had at the exact opposite experience with her so i don't know but as far as you know at the time she was she was stephanie mcmahon. She was a boss. She was part of creative. I think it was more so title at that point that actually contributing to the creative team but <hes> talent. I mean anytime i i worked with anybody at stephanie was involved they. They were always nice too. I never heard anyone say anything bad behind her back but again it could be because i was there. <hes> or it could be at the time that you know they appreciate her and now they don't if those have changed but <hes> sometimes it's hard for me to kind of you've speak for other people and i can only speak for myself and say from a creative standpoint. I don't know she never really contributed <hes> creatively as far as here's some ideas she would walk into the room sometimes and send us all down and go okay. Let's talk about this but it was never here's ideas. I have so creatively. I can't really say as a performer armor. I think she's great and i think she <hes> she's one of the better performers on the show. I mean there's times that she just she just knows what she's doing out out there and sometimes i think that she <hes> takes away from the other performers that are out there and i think that hurts them but i i think she's great <hes> both personally and and on air so i don't i give bad person to kind of break down her flaws or things that i didn't mike about her because i honestly can tell you. I never had a bad experience with her. <hes> personally or professionally yup no that's great say metro by t mobile at the best deal in wireless and it's all for you offer me just switch quickly because metro has to lance but eighty and to samsung samsung galaxy j sevenstock bones for free plus amazon prime included. That's the way wireless should be only admit tro plus sales tax inactivation fee fifty eighty dollars plus rate plan required not valid for numbers currently t. mobile network on metro and past ninety days offer subject to change offer valid for new amazon prime members amazon prime has a twelve ninety nine per month restrictions apply see store for details and terms conditions. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between when you in a life. You want to live cd medic target. Your pain added source. It's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free toil. Get back to your life with c._d. Medic available online at c._v._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any aziz another <hes> question about current events <hes> because i want to be able to hit these teased <hes> roman reigns <hes> you your thoughts in the last few months now <hes> the progress of roman reigns clearly being positions atop guy even monday on raw when johnson was supposed to prove to aaa she's ready to face brock listener cenotaph out. Let rains get you know get the finish and get the pin and seeing it. Just you know went to ringside a job with triple h and now you know matching storting rematch against orton. A feud with seth rollins is do you think roman reigns is on is being promoted at the right pace and is doing what asked him well or is he falling short or in writing falling short <hes>. I think they're doing all right <hes> with what they have. I mean i don't know realistically what more they could do. From a storytelling standpoint i mean they're pretty much making this guy monster <hes> he's running through the the top guys <hes> he's put in in t- spots but <hes> i think the one thing i would change is as promos <hes> i personally i truly we think that someone needs to be dedicated to him and him only and let range choose that writer like go to him. Do you have a guy i on this staff that that you feel you. Click with or that you respect creatively or in sync with and and let him say yeah you know john okay okay. John is your writer. I mean you have thirty freaking writers have enough from us at one guy can be dedicated to one one wrestler and you'd have everybody everybody compensated for so <hes> you know and i take that guy and i think the dad guy should do nothing but work with rains find his voice find got who he is <hes> and and literally just concentrate on roman reigns and his provost and and that entails showing up to the arena and saying hey man <hes> after you go your matchless it now. Let's let's cut this promo. <hes> let's go over it. Let's <hes>. Let's find out who it is. You wanna be you know. Gimme gimme an inspiration okay. My inspiration is <hes> <hes>. I have such a hard time referencing <hes> someone someone but <hes> my inspiration is <hes> star lord from his guardians of the galaxy okay so you want to emulate that type of character all right well <hes> let me do some research and i'll get back to you and you do the same and let's come together next week with some ideas and i think you'd see him grow oh so much quicker if if he had that and it's also too you know a lot of these guys sometimes even when i was there <hes> they have ideas but they don't know who to go with it or <hes> you know. Roma could sit here and like man i got this. I got this kick ass promo but let's say he comes comes up to me and he goes. Hey man <hes>. I'd like to say this. Oh roman i don't got. I don't have your promo tonight now. If you did it to me i'd be like all right. Let me let me look it over and i'll take it to the person that does but i think a lot of talent feels lost at times when it comes to that in yeah you know what i got this great idea. I'm sure that there is i'm pretty confident that there's nobody on that writing staff. That knows who roman reigns it and i'm talking about <hes> the real real person yeah and i. I don't think that there's anybody who could who could create a voice for him without going. I need to spend i and every time i'm on the road i need to spend with you and you know what if you're serious about being the top guy i show up <hes> every sunday by nine mpm and i stay at the hyatt all come to you you come to me lipped out a drink. Let's talk. It's not if you come in late monday. I'm there at eleven eleven o'clock. I got my production meetings until three. I'm all yours after that. Come to me with stuff. Let me fox figure out who you are. Let me create a voice for you but i just feel like gets a new guy probably every week handing a script going <hes>. I guess you know a bad ass would say this. I'm not putting down everybody else. The i'm not a bad ass either but i would at least go. You know what i'm not this guy so i need to sit with them and find out who he is and then i can take that in and ripe fight for him but i think to that <hes> what rains needs to do is <hes>. I don't know how i can really express this but i think that he needs to find something to help. Fans kinda latch onto him. <hes> give give give something for the fans to do to emulate raines <hes> win. Raw isn't on on the playground or on you know what their friends are older. You know you kind of had the thing with with austin <hes> you know hell yeah or the or the rock kind of had his catchphrases and they caught on outside of wrestling. You had a way to emulate these guys and it was a way for you to kind of attach yourself to that character. I could be stone cold steve austin. If i throw <hes> to middle fingers up to <hes> to somebody or you know i can raise my eyebrows to someone who says something weird to me. I can be the rock. That's how i could be the rock. I don't think that anybody has the ability to do that. With roman reigns and you know it could be something as simple as a catchphrase baby. Get something more but i think that he needs to find a way to connect with people outside of the ring because while it's great to go oh oh cool his matches up next after that there's nothing else to represent roman reigns on the show for with the people makes total sense. I i'm with you every bullet point step of the way on that i think i i liked the idea and again that comes from having a expediter on the find because you've seen that work where you find that writer or roman reigns fines and identifies a writer who will who will work primarily with him not exclusively but primarily to learn his voice and get get his voice more expressive on t._v. To connect with the fans another <hes> another big topic. I wanna get to before time runs out here. Brock listener john cena summer slam match. What did you think of the booking looking at that match. And what have you thought of the follow up in the weeks. Since <hes>. I loved the booking of the summer slam match because i think you eliminated all all the <hes>. I think you tore down you okay. Let me start over without mentioning the match you bring in the biggest pay per view draw <hes> <hes> going in brock lessner from u._s._c. and you have that power and then i think they stripped him of everything when he lost johnson on-scene <hes> when he looked human against triple h and i did he lose two out of three to triple h or did he went to three he. I think he had to win. Two out of three okay either way he he. He just became another guy. That's all that he was like okay cool. It's brock listener but all right. I have no reason to really invest in him. He's going to go up against one of the top guys he may or may not win and i think that <hes> they heard them and then i think they erased all that it was summer slam and i think that <hes> he just became a huge attraction and i think that <hes> he's gonna. He's gonna garner a lot. Anyone who who saw that or heard the buzz that is not a loyal viewer of the product is going to want to see him russell again which is why i think that they have <hes> i don't want to say the opportunity but they run the risk of destroying all that all over again by booking this match against john cena a too soon and too poorly i mean sir. He destroyed scene and i can't imagine them booking him to do it again. So in that case you're going to take away what what they did at summer slam so i i here's the thing and and i look at things. Almost i look at things as a fan but then i also look look at things of how it was probably book and part of me thinks that they didn't have a definitive plan after summer slam like they went into somerset. I'm going this is what's best for business today and i think that what they found out was whether they plan on going on <hes> with this story or three months or however long or maybe they just decided it was the best option because no one else was ready and i think that what vince ultimately did was go the only way to get people to care about john cena facing brock lessner again and more so specifically johnson of fans was to give those people the hope that he can win otherwise everyone's gonna go. He got his ass chicks. I mean worse than any <hes> <hes> since we've seen since the eighties or nineties almost on squash matches on superstars <hes> you know why would i watch that again and i think this is philosophy making strongest possible so that so that his fans believed that he could win and i think that that's where they're going as far as out there booking well whether i agree with it or not. That's what i think. The philosophy is you don't have to wait for the way keller pursing post show to find out what i thought of monday night raw smackdown each week you can check out my reports that are updated live through rau- end smack down at p w torch dot com my written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show. It'll also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts on what i'm watching as it airs so check it out every monday night and tuesday night at w. Torch dot com that also applies to the w._w._e. Pay per views. I cover those live at new torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings and of course you can find other tv reports from other contributors to w torque such as annex t h impact wrestling and more check it out p w torch dot com your first stop for t._v. And pay per view written reports and now let's just say wrestle they decide vincent man undecideds brock listeners going over undertaker wrestlemainia thirty and the next day at raw all the powers that be go. We need a book sina lena out until wrestlemainia thirty one. We need to properly tell this story. 'cause we invested twenty one years into this streak and we need to make sure this is done right so let's just say but that was the plan and that's what they did okay so really. How do you make less than look even stronger but yet don't so chill sina again so i think that what you could do and what they might do. Is you have have to give the opportunity to have some offense and maybe you have something where seeing it does find that dark side and he somehow somehow gets away with hitting seen with a chair or some sort of foreign object and you sell the story of <hes> you know seen <hes> lessner. Sir is is wounded. I mean he's a wounded animal. We have not seen this yet this this could be in john seen could beat up could be brock listener and and yet at the end rock listeners still be sean scene but you have a plausible explanation as to how john fina all of a sudden got all this offense on him yet. He's still loses and then you kinda run with the story of all right. I mean the guy that we've been touting is the greatest world champion of all time couldn't beat him at one hundred percent percents. He couldn't beat them at fifty percent. Who could stop this guy and then when the time's right it's roman reigns and now you <music> built such a huge star out of roman where you got a guy who beat the street. You've got a guy who beat john cena and you got a guy who beat john fina. Maybe on one leg. I mean who could stop this guy and to go even further in just kind of like in the booking whether i think that this is the best idea or not like i was always the type of person where they would say here's here's the idea and i think the general idea is that roman reigns rents the royal rebel and i would be always the type of person that would go okay. I'm not saying we shouldn't do that but for the sake of throwing an alternative idea <music> out there. Let me throw an alternative idea so it's not so predictable yeah. If you you know along the way you got to build roman reigns so i think you gotta keep them away from bill wrestlemainia thirty two but you who do you have that you can have go out. Okay you got seth rollins already had or i think ultimately you get to aaa relate who can see the ascension of rain and go okay. I got to put a stop to this. 'cause it's not gonna be this guy by the way i hate that storytelling but that's that's just the way that w._w._e. Books everything so <hes> you know you have triple h go <hes> okay. We're doing a <hes> royal rumble qualifiers roman and maybe it's you know he tries to stop roman from winning but he's still does and he goes great. Hey you know congratulations. You've qualified qualified for the royal rumble. You will be insurance <hes> but you i will have to face me earlier in the night and <hes> <hes> you can have roman reigns go over but then you can have something where maybe it's the authority maybe it's just triple h in a sledgehammer but you have <hes> takeout roman and it's not something that would be a long-term injury but just something that he's out of the royal rumble and you go to the royal rumble match and you who have you know ten nine eight the countdown no roman rates and then all of a sudden <hes> and you know what i'm coming up with this kind of up my head. It could be done in so many different ways. Maybe you have brock listener. Take his spot you know maybe he was number. Five and he comes out and takes his spot or earlier. You know brock listener declares i'm going to be in the royal rumble but either way you don't have roman it but brock is and win the rumble so now the next night on raw you can. They have that question of well. Where does that leave wrestlemainia or where does that leave the next challenger for brock and you have payment cuts such brilliant promo you know hey <hes> not only did we defeat the undertaker. We defeated john cena twice. We <hes> went through you know from survivor series to royal rumble. We went through <hes> this guy this guy this guy then went into the royal rumble and we annihilated annihilated every single superstar in the back. There is nobody else at this point. Maybe brock should go back to the u._f._c. Maybe we should just go sit on his ranch and wait for someone to step up worthy of of facing him. Maybe we'll go conquer something else and then all of a sudden you have roman reigns. Come outgo yeah you but you haven't been me and then you tell the story going into wrestlemainia where you at least don't have the predictable roman reigns <hes> royal rumble win and while i don't think fans will reject roman they might reject the idea of him winning because it's just so predictable all and it's kind of like oh we were hoping for a swerve but you didn't give it to us. <hes> and it's not like they were dying for for roman like they were for daniel the o'brien and they got their wish. It's more all right. They're building roman okay. He's gonna win the real <hes> he wanted. Okay thanks you kinda can get away from that and and then you kinda develop. Roman is as bad acid stepping up to two lessner in. It's the last hope essentially of the w._w._e. <hes> to get that just lost you john right at the your last sentence. I don't know if you can hear me about your back. Okay so yeah i mean i. I don't know if you've got the whole story but just five off for five seconds most at most yeah so i mean that's that's just it's just an idea of what they can do it right yeah you know storytelling and then as far as building him to be <hes> prepared and are they on the right track with him. I think from a storytelling standpoint so far so good. It's not blowing anybody away yeah. I think he needs a lot of work on the mike and i don't necessarily think it's his fault because <hes> you can see it in him without him having to do anything that this guy's cool wolf that what he's saying on t._v. is is not really him <hes> so i think if you can find that balance of this is the way we wanna present you with here is your voice injected into it because i don't think it's as simple and i and i <hes> you know wade and while i agree with with you austin on certain aspects and you know things shouldn't be <hes> over scripted hundred percent agree but i also think that div often was in the business for what fifteen years or more before before he was cutting amazing promos. That's really your point yeah if you went up to him in the u._s. W way i think it was or you have to him when he was first stunning running steve austin i mean even he'll tell you that he didn't know what stunning steve austin was and you just go out there and cut them money promo austin well he. He talked about that john he said when i left at least c._w. C._d._w. paul you're the one who taught me how to tap into why was ause on promos because he didn't know i mean i'm paraphrasing but he didn't know stunning steve was but he knew he was in paul helped him tap into that and that brief stay and he c._w. Is what what really was birth of stone cold exactly and and if you didn't have paul heyman telling them that you may never have had don't cold steve austin so i guess my point lena's. I think that you don't overly script but i think you need to lead these guys until roman goes. I got it listen. I got you know. I don't think he would walk up to stone cold right now and go. Hey man <hes> word for word. Go ahead and say this for me because the way this is your promo but i think that it would have benefited him to. They have that in his debut w._c._w. And go hey what is what is stunning steve oh man. I don't know well okay well. I kind of have an the idea. Can i can can we go over what i wrote for you. Oh man this is good. Okay go out there cut that and eventually he starts finding out who stunning or stone cold old is and and he he doesn't need someone to write for him but i don't know that roman <hes> and i could be wrong. I don't know that roman necessarily understands who stands maybe certain points that he would need to hit on from a story <hes> telling standpoint from a segment yeah so i think it's good to have someone there are to <hes> to lead them because i think that like the consensus online is god. Just let them talk don't scream him and i think that he might improve approve a little bit but i think that he would also regress a little bit. So if you just had one guy who was comfortable with like i had guys there that i i could until you to this day would prefer i was writing their promos to the people that right there promos because we click and i didn't click with every person there and i can. I can probably tell you that there's probably some people would go. This guy talks like he built such a report on new everyone's voice. He didn't know mine. I would agree with them but there were. There's some people that i did and there was some people that would say hey <hes>. I was assigned to this writer i want. I wanna work with you. All my problem sure. Let's do it and it. It's always better and i think what you're what you're advocating is probably for most guys a necessary step but i think we're the frustration comes in and this is where steve austin and i are kind of in agreement. I think is what you described should be done as a some of what you described because a lot of a lot of what you say is so i don't want you to jump into this but in terms of like with roman reigns working with him as a future top guy near future top guy what they do with him in terms of heavily scripting promos should be a ah as part of it to get him to need less and less exact wording memorized agreed yeah so and i thought you would agree with you on that and i think that's where randy randy. Orton never really got off the he. It's it's been a crutch for him and he never learned to walk without the crutch and so his crutch is i'm. I'm going to memorize it word for word because i don't have to think out there. I don't even want to feel out there. I just wanna be in some character that i figured out how to portray and memorize the words and as i speak speak them. I might even be thinking about what i'm going to do tonight. After the show and i think fans pick up on that and that's what steve austin really talks well about is in and so what i'd like to do with roman reigns raines is yeah work with them having some exact wording but also as part of that backstage process because there's so much money on the line with him get him in a room with a camera and a microphone a boom mic or whatever and have him come the promo his way without a script where there's some bullet points and then hundred percent yes so then then when he speaks it. He's then you can tell them okay. Hey here's what you left out of the script but you did these parts so much better felt so much more real but here's something that didn't naturally come. I'm too. That's really important. That's the point you need to make so this is in the script. You missed it. Let's try it again. Speak from the heart. Don't worry about word for word but you know you gotta at this point and i think that step seems to be missing because randy orton doesn't have it. You look at that roster for monday. A lotta guys don't have it. Some go some go into their off on their owning. It works but it's amazing how close almost word for word some of these promos are wait. I'm i'm not an advocate for word for word you know would i would do is i would write a promo out okay. I had it word for word and let's say i'd go up to me and i go okay. Here's what i got and the guys that i had you working relationship with. They knew i'm bringing you draft. One this is what's in my head and and which you say they look at it and said perfect. I literally literally just want that. I wouldn't care if they went out there and said literally every single word on that sheet sure what i would sit with them and go okay. But how do we make this. It's more of what makes you more comfortable. If i'm with roman i'm going. Hey i want to say <hes>. I'm gonna beat your ass and roman would go. You know what i wouldn't say. I'm gonna the beecher asked. I'd say this and i go cool. It's your voice but from the standpoint of ron saying with the writers is that in the in the nature of the business right now and and i don't know if it's exactly like that but based off of saying you saying that there's a script and they're staying word for word. It's probably the same thing vince mcmahon watts word for word what is said on that paper set out there. So if you're going to bring 'em paper apor yes roman. I need you to say word for word what i'm putting on this paper but i want with on this paper coming from your mouth not for my. I'm just just giving you a guideline and i'm saying i think maybe this would be a cool catchphrase or maybe i think that you should make sure that you hit on the history of the shield in this promo promo and at the end i think you need to say you're going to kick his ass now. If you wanna stay everything completely different that you want to hit on like you said those bullet points. I'm i'm gonna write down what comes out of your mouth and then he's gonna say without reading anything. I'm gonna write it down and then i'm gonna go okay. I'm going to spend the next hour with you or until you go out there however long that may be and we're gonna continue to cut this promo now. It's word for word on a sheet of paper but it came out of his mouth first and that's the way i would write for these guys. I i would never say you have to say this unless these guys there were certain talat alic debt depended on what was written for them and just going. I don't know just you have for me okay. I'm going to say that and when i argue just let these these guys go out there and don't over scrip them. There's i it could be a disaster for some. I'd talk to randi. I worked with randy going into wrestlemainia twenty six. He can cut his own promos. He doesn't need someone writing them but maybe and i've never asked him but maybe just for him. He goes look. I care hear more about what happens in that ring and i wanna make sure that everything is perfect plus. I wanna be able to have my time to myself to do whatever it is that i need to do. Stretch which get my mind right now. I don't wanna think about what i wanna. Say out there. Tell me what you want me to say. I'll deal because it's the least important thing for me today and maybe that's. That's just the way that he likes it and while you know he's not the greatest actor in the world. I mean if if if it's gonna be a better <hes> promo in the sense of the story you're getting across if he goes out there and goes and then you need to come down here and see me in the ring if it tells a better story but not the greatest acting as opposed to just go randy go out there now with open mic i like him. I didn't even think of anything oh and he doesn't get across the storyline points. You're you're in the same boat man. That was such a great provo the way why are they fighting again again. I don't understand you know so yeah. I think there's pros and cons to both sides absolutely and and i do think that it makes sense that there should be different. Methods used for different guys on the top half of the roster. I think we're in the lower half. You know there's a level of efficiency that just needs to happen in the process. I gotta go tell me <hes> but i have a couple of follow ups to what you just said if you've got a few minutes let's run through them. Real quick superfast. What amount of time do you think wrestlers flirts in. What's the range top. Guys spend <hes> thinking about practicing and prepping for the promo that we see on raw. That's you know somewhat indian in ring promo that someone substantial. How much time does the average guy put on her. What's the range. You're talking about backstage before the show the afternoon of the show this radio and put in three hours on that's promo roman reigns two hours or is it more like you know maybe fifteen or thirty minutes. <hes> you know there were talent that <hes> i would say i got your promo. Let's go sit down and come up with something <hes> and then there were talent alan that i would walk up and i'd go here you go. They would take it run off and then you know. I see them again later and go. Hey did you wanna go over anything or maybe like. I got it see out there all right see out there so <hes> those those types of people. I don't know i don't know if they just i looked it over for twenty minutes and then met me gorilla and said <hes> okay. Here's the promo good yeah okay cool. I'm going out there <hes> or if they spent you know eight hours. I just know that anytime that i really sort of tried to develop talent swagger move mcintyre d._r._c. <hes> those guys it was <hes> me sitting with them pretty much any time that they were free not going over there match. I'd go to catering with them and i eat with them and i'd go all right. What about this. What about that. I mean i just always it. It was my it. They go out there and everything that weight you in the audience sees is <hes> is going to benefit benefiting them but if it's good but it also is going to benefit or hurt me if it's not and that's everything you don't see if it's horrible promo <hes> ramos cheerio. I remember the the night after ramos stereo won the title. I think it was a fatal four way and i had his promo. He was sick and i didn't know oh he was sick but i found him and i said hey you know here's your promo and he's like okay okay. I gotta go run. I was like okay and i was like i'll come find you. I couldn't find him the entire entire night apple and <hes> all of a sudden i see him in guerrilla the segment before and i was like ray like what do we have how <hes> you know and he goes. I got it. I got it don't worry and i was like okay because like literally i gave him. Just some bullet points of things that i wanted to discuss with them. Hey we gotta get over. Yes we gotta get over that. He goes out there and weighed. It could've been d. worse promo. Anyone has ever cut history of wrestling and it's i. I don't think they cut it. <hes> it was on like a smackdown and i just remember vince looking at me and i was in we were in guerrilla after it was done and he sat me down and he was just like i mean he treated me like a child yeah. Do you not know how to write for and i'm thinking to myself. It's like just throw ray under the bus us. No not at all i and i and so ray comes back after i'm talking too busy sees me talking to vince and you know what the end you know once once cooler heads prevail. That's when vince is listen. I know i know you know what to do. And you know blah. Blah blah and i'm usually happy with what you have but come on you know and i'm like hey what would happen again. I'm so sorry i didn't say anything so rape pulled me aside and he's like oh my god man. I'm so sorry i'm sick. I was i've been doing this. Doing that and i just like right great no problem but i was like man next time like i can't have you go out there and do that and he's like. I promise that won't happen again. I'm so sorry i saw you talking invention. You know there's there's that <hes> so i'm affected trust me. No writer wants you to go out there and have a bad provo. Although it affects it affects the writer more than it affects the <hes> the wrestler because i think you know you could go out there and cut a bad promo but have a greatbatch batch and i think people would be like well. He had a great match. You know so. I'm still kinda into where i'm ray goes out there and has a good match and while he's having a match. I'm getting chewed out right and then so my goal is to sit here and go. I want more opportunities. I wanna move up in on the creative team i want to be someone convinced that you know you turn to go john. I need an idea or john. What would you say in this and and i'm taking two steps back for you know not even two steps for every hundred steps you could take forward you have that one bad promo and you're back at the bottom and then you gotta you gotta crawl back up again so it's <hes> i don't know i don't know how long long <hes> every cakes i can only tell you that <hes> it it varies bro. You know like a chris jericho sometimes looking at it being. I'm like okay. I i know what you what you want me to say. Got it and then he just has it but then there's times that chris jericho has come into the writer's room and and we sat at a computer and no meticulously put together a promo going on the source in finding the right words and you know spending and three hours writing is pro and then sometimes he just says. I know what i'm gonna say here. Write this down and you write it down and it's done <hes> so i i i would assume that sometimes somebody would spend five minutes and sometimes someone would spend the whole day going over there promo and i don't think there's anyone that just always spend ends just a little amount of time or a lot <hes> put to you when i put the damian in one sentence <hes> it's re- there what there is not a typical narrow range of time. It really is variable depending on the person their skill set the writer writing for them. The importance of the promo what else is going on it like there really is if somebody wanted to be a note out with their friends and we go. Oh yeah i know wrestlers all spend <hes> twenty to forty minutes practicing promo like that would be wrong because maybe two guys on the roster spend that much time four guys spend two hours and other three guys spend five hours and one one or two or three guys spend less than ten minutes and they all may be do-gooder bedrose right. I mean i mean it's really really is variable by the person and their attitude and their approach i mean exactly and i think the best example is like the jericho one i mean he he he can go twenty minutes or he can go three hours. I think just kind of depends on the mindset of the person at the time and and really what they they have going on. I know that there's been times where let's say. I've had <hes> jack swaggers promo but he had a big match so it's like oh man i gotta. I gotta taker man and <hes> you know. Just what is it that you got for me like here. It is oh okay cool. I might change this and this but other than that. I like it. I'm gonna roll with okay cool and yet you know if you would ask me. Does the swagger spend a lotta time on his promos. I for the most part anytime. I worked with him. We spend in a lot of time on them but you can't say that he did that every single time right yep yeah i think what what what the system should have <unk> have and give them a letter grade and will end on this note. The system should have the ability to recognize wrestlers who are ready to break away from someone else giving them word it for word what the promo is going to be and then that person memorizing it if it turns out that that is one of the twenty or twenty or thirty or sixty percent whatever number turns out to be on the restaurant you give him time who are actually better when they're just told here's what we're trying to get across. Maybe they take some notes on it and then they just get that in their head and they go out there and and they come come pretty close to improvising and it works for him. There should be something that allows that stone cold steve austin type the gym cornet type paul heyman to break away a. and succeed expressing their own voice in their own tone and not seeming like they're reading a script but it's good that the system is in place because because maybe most guys will never be that and today's wrestling you can have two or three minutes eaten up with wrestlers who literally are are doing. What ray did on that day when he was sick but i think also too there. There are guys that were given that opportunity. Yeah i mean sina <hes> h._p._k. Undertaker or triple h and they they they weren't scripted yeah you know we wrote down their promos since wanted to see him but those guys went out there instead what they wanted to say and it worked for them so yes what your idea is great but you have to get to that point to you not only where you are able to come up with something like that and know how to tell a story with your promo and do it well but to gain convinces trust and like. I think that you know a story that i told you that when i was working with ms eventually we walk into his office and he's like i was like i got what mrs promo and he's like i don't i don't need you to bring him as his promos anymore. That's right yeah. He got to that point. So of ms wanted to go out there and go. I wanna say this he he he can had the power to do that. I don't know if he's still holds that power but <hes> yeah you do get to that point and i think even bench recognizes that and and they're given that opportunity to do it but i think vince still wants a stranglehold on everything that's that's put put on the show and just to know what it is so you know in in austin's case it would be where i'm sure he wouldn't care what austin said but but i think he'd still want it down on a piece of paper so that for vince is reasons he has it even because john was i mean he he yeah. The point is is that it does get to that point where yeah i do go out there and set their promos without a strict and i think a really good point you made you on that. That's worth stressing. Thing is a lot of times when people see a raw script and it's word for word what the wrestler said that doesn't mean that that wrestler was handed that script and they read it in memorized it a lot of times and that's the final script. The wrestler in the writer worked on together and got in what the rest are wanted to say written down. Oh exactly early and that's that's that's what happens with with those guys in that position. Yeah yeah like okay c. n. h. K. what do you wanna say i wanna say this. This fits this and this all right. I wrote it down. Thanks go out there and do it and and you don't have to take it to vince but he does want it written down in scripts. Yes no i. I think that's actually a really good point to end on people looking at that script thinking oh god they're just writing out word for word wrestlers need more say so a wrestler's do rise above word for word scripts and they come up with their own stuff if you get to that level and you get trusted that opportunities there and number two a lot of those word for word scripts or simply a documentation of what a wrestler himself came up with exactly and you know what i think too that <hes> knowing vince if let's say stone cold got to <hes> got to rain and said roman <hes> i think you'd be better just going out there and shooting the shit and being yourself and just kind of saying what bullet points do you want to have and i think that if rains went to vince at set i can knock it out of the park park. I don't need anything written for me. Just give you the bullet points. I truly believe that vince would at least give him the opportunity to try to do that so you know if if a stone cold was in the w._w._e. Right now and he went to vincent said god damn vis. I can't do it like this. I need to go out. There and i need to feel it and i. I know what i need to get across. We've talked about it. Trust me i think vince would go go out there and do it then but you fail and then when you've lost that opportunity so you know and so called would know that he's dealt with vince way longer than i ever did and if you go the vents nine times out of ten the answer is going to be interest yup yup yeah i. I mean it's not gonna be. It's gonna be hey. I want to come out and you know <hes>. I can only imagine what you're thinking right now but yes right exactly doc. Try try to like dumb it down or p._g. Down a little bit but you get what i'm saying he no that's not in the context of what we're trying to put out there but you went to him with a request like that. Just give me the opportunity then. Let me show you that i can. I can do this he would go. You absolutely have very good john. Thank you <hes> for great discussion. <hes> your phone connection went out again so i'll let you i know you're about a half hour late from where you needed to be any way and that's why that's nothing so thank you very much <hes> great discussion and <hes> really appreciate it. I learned a lot and it's great having john on the show. I think that is often as he spent on the show. I just think well there won't be you know he's probably run. Run out of anecdotes from actual firsthand experience and there were several there that i i don't remember hearing before from him. <hes> and <hes> really good insight so everybody's p member i think gained some knowledge and they can look at that roster a little differently and look at <hes> the w._w._e. Creative process with a greater level of understanding inning whether you agree or disagree with it anymore. At least you have a stronger foundation to work from when deciding if you'd like if you think they're approaches is the best approach to take so on that note <music> big thanks to john for longer than than he said he could with an engagement that he had tonight <hes> but obviously he was able to continue talking well working his way there <hes> really i appreciate that and on that note i think first and foremost are v._i._p. Members your individual paid membership the p._o._w. Torch v._i._p. P._w. Torch dot com slash members is what makes it possible for us to do what we do here on the live tests or what we do here <hes> on the v._i._p. After show part of the live cast and everything else we do in the entire staff <hes> day after day after day no days off <hes> <hes> darren young and i share that in common <hes> the <hes> no days off approach to what we do here and we love it and and we just everyday just thankful that you guys have customers enjoy what we do and what we put into it and the information. We're able to bring you the point of view and i don't know again. Thank you very much and he'll wade keller finding if you'd like to hear this show without ads and plugs dogs interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a torch v._i._p. Member you've got about a dozen other podcast throughout the week that i host that our v._i._p. Exclusive -clusive and you'll get the way color potions podcast during the week with the ads and plugs removed all on a separate feed exclusively for v._i._p. Members plus tons of other podcasts that are v._i._p. 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WKPWP - Wildcard Tuesday - Full Triple H media call on Takeover, then Keller & Martin preview line-up, then NXT Takeover XXV flashback

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:56:30 hr | 6 months ago

WKPWP - Wildcard Tuesday - Full Triple H media call on Takeover, then Keller & Martin preview line-up, then NXT Takeover XXV flashback

"Aloha torch faithful. This is Kelly wells host of WT talks and x t every Thursday you can hear me and my gang of idiots Tom Style share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in Annex. T LIVE ON USA network. Search Bwi torching apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand, the entire PW torch daily cast schedule at Peter Mew Torch. Daily Pass Dot, com, cheers. Now pw torch and spreaker. Bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. If the big weekend. Brenick Takeover Sunday night exclusively on wwe network, and we've got a three segment wildcard Thursday edition of the Wade Keller Progressing podcast here on Thursday June fourth two thousand and twenty first up is the complete triple h media QNA that took place earlier today POW, torch dotcom zone Kelly Wells. WHO's the host of p? Wt Toxin St on the POW. Torch telecast lineup was part of that conference call. He has to question about booking. Surprises and triple h talked about how. It kind of gave up an answer, not only about the specific instance of of Brazil go. Becoming number, one contenders, or at least earning a title shot this week in a surprise appearance buddy expanded on that talk about what he's enjoying right now as sort of an unintended side effect of not having fans in attendance, and not predicting things and the area that we're in where they can do a lot and nobody knows what they're gonNA do ahead of time like we're doesn't leak. Leak out from people who are in attendance, and he thinks that's more drove us. You can hear triplets kind of explain that in more detail and also respond to what Kelly brought up specifically and lot of other topics from other media. So that's coming up I after that is a full annexed t takeover in your house preview that Todd Martin towards VIP analyst and I recorded earlier today. We run out of the full lineup and talk about the quality of the card and we're. This lineup looks to rank in terms of takeover specials overall, and then after that we go back one year to the annex. T take over twenty-five post pay per view roundtable VIP, exclusive Kelly wells hosting with Harley Paget, and Justin James, and they talk about that lineup, which included Adam Cole and Johnny Gargano facing. Off Shane of Basil Oregon. Steel Shirai Matt. Riddle against Roderick strong, a big fatal four way tag match. Match the return of Tyler Breeze to take overs against albertine dream and more that took place on. June. First two thousand nineteen, and they spent nearly seventy minutes reviewing that show the night of the event, and you have a chance to hear that and just go back in time to hear what the State of Annex. T was one year ago and get some great analysis on that event. Maybe want to warm up for this Sunday's event by watching the takeover twenty-five event, either before or after listening to this roundtable. Previous VIP exclusive, but available here today on the wild card Thursday edition of the week killer probing podcast I will note we will have one or two. Post takeover podcasts for VIP members this weekend. Along with Gregg Park, hosting wrestling night, in America after takeover, taking your calls, so you've got to look forward to in terms of energy coverage coming up on Sunday night, all those will be available, Sunday night or Monday morning, and in the meantime you got a lot of warm up here with AAA just take on the state of annex t his overview at the beginning here of takeover with his thoughts on each of the matches before he gets to media, Qa and then a full card preview Todd Martin and the one year ago flashback, so let's get to it here. We go. Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. PODCASTS will come join me out four L. over in the progress, Paradise, piano, torch VIP as we on the right side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches, and chose from around the world be at the US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place arrest since passed in the paradise to. We've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love light or series, celebrating glorious career of Jewish thunder like. I was there when shows where a guest will join me to talk about a classic bent that they were in attends for we love variety, and you can expect lots of at the pro rest, paralyzed detailed. PDF TORCH VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP. Benefits is available, appear torch and VIP Info Dot, com, and yes all. VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast. APPS, on Iphone android devices, or you can stream them directly from our AD FREE VIP mobile site see in the paradise. Welcome give it. Call everybody and thank you for being here again. Really appreciate everybody joining these calls and being part of this before we started today I just wanted to offer my sincere condolences to the families the family of George Floyd. And other families of the cow was others. That have lost their lives due to senseless violence. One of say that before we get started. With that We had a lot of international people. additional. Motion Than Usual Today on the call so welcome. I'm very very excited about this card one for us to be back. In the takeover business so to speak with everything going on with. You know the Kobe situation and everything happening for us to be back having a takeover, and it seemed very apropos, and in the moment, while everybody is in quarantine and everything else to be. Bringing back in your house which I think a lot of people back onto the timing wwe very flawlessly and. Does as. Fun and entertaining babe reviews. I'm excited to bring that back I. Think there will be a lot of. Fun Little. History pieces and and things that people enjoy and this that will Will be very retro will make them current you today and you know as far as I'm concerned. I think Cardi spectacular and I and I. Always feel like we. Present a great card that then tends to even exceed expectations this one, I would expect to be no different. As you saw last night. deacon knocks shotsie placard, medium versus canvas Gargano, Laret. Dakota Cal Gonzales. And the six woman tag. Off of the candice turn everything happening around that. These are some of the most amazing. Female performers and I shouldn't even say that is just amazing. Performance that we have. In the industry in the WWE. and. I really expect to Wada this match. I'm I'm excited for excited for the opportunity for them to show, and they can do on this platform and take it to the next level. That it should be. It should be a hell of a match Johnny Gargano And his turn has created entire new dynamic for Johnny, that has one of the most consistent and exceptional performers in NFC. Now with business, character and new sort of slad to everything that he is bringing to the table where it's Johnny Gargano Way, this is an entirely different match. Now he brings something unique to the table and he needs to again somebody formidable as keithly. You could make the argument that Keith had. Maybe the best. two thousand nineteen of anybody in the WWE Sin Ballard's Damian priest to me two completely different styles, but something that I'm looking for do very much Damian, the opportunity to compete against a like Finn and show what he can do and send Ballard has just taken the prince to a whole different level from where he was at before. The other team dream and Adam Cole the NFC championship is. Going to be done. I would be arena offsite as everybody knows. I don't necessarily like using the term cinematic because I. Don't feel that isn't there? Was this will be? there will be a ring. This will be what we do, but it will. It will be different than a different environment and shot differently and I. Think People are going to really enjoy this and it was spectacular Shaw. This be off the chart. For the annex, t women's championship the triple threat match. We talked about Keith Lease, two thousand and nineteen. You can put her right up there with it as probably. On an equal of the you know one of the best two thousand and nineteen anybody in the business. E Oh Shirai one of the most consistent performers that we have and probably in ring maybe the best female. Performer in the world. By didn't. And then show it Flair, who absolutely as time and time again proven herself Over the years and you know visit is coming back to X. T and You know. Putting your thumb on everybody and showing them that she's a queen and this is going to be to me. It's three in the best. Performance. and. This one is going to be I such expectations for spectacular, and then of course D'Amato chopping carry across, Tomasa one of the toughest. GREEDIEST performers in A. Against somebody who has just sparked a fire in an xt and I think garnered everybody's interest in carrying cross this opportunity for him to show really what he hasn't done yet. which is what does he really bring to the table in ring? And against somebody like Moscow chompy. He couldn't have gone any higher up the ladder so I can't wait to see that one so with that said the card is spectacular in your house. We're GONNA. Bring something old something new. And It should be al the nights without him and open up to all of you. The questions. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell, hosting the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week. He'll your the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media, members, plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry, subscribing I tune stitcher, downcast, and all your favorite secondary APPS, or visit us directly at W BOOM DOT com. Once again, that's PW. Dot Com Lawyer. Down the call. We're going to keep it to one question. I thank you very much. And thank you if you'd like to ask a question, please signal by first star one on your telephone keypad. If you're using a speakerphone, please make sure you're mute. Function turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment again. That's star one to ask a question. We'll take our first question. Nick Hoffman with Wesseling Inc.. I Paul. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. Make our, are you? I'm I'm doing as well as I. can here in Chicago Right now. well I wonder. Thank you. Yeah, it's a tough time obviously. Appreciate your concern? Florida is entering day two of the reopening of now some concert halls. They're going to be available for shows. half capacity the next eighteen wwe considering running shows offended the performance dinner Florida because of that. So I think you know since the beginning of this? We've been looking at all options and. Trying to figure out. You know just just how to navigate all of this and as things have changed, we've worked very closely with the government in Florida to make sure that we're doing everything that they want us to do expect us to do and and then some and try to stick to everything you know She guidelines everything This is just come about and we have been. looking at options for when this time came. So I think all options are on the table for us I think we need to understand completely what they're saying can and cannot be done and what they would like us to do, and then we will respond accordingly, but all options are on the table. You know What we do is is for our fans, and we feel like it's our duty to and and had felt like that to continue to deliver for them. They've been there for us. We want to be there for them. Even in this time when they need it, the most people that entertainment, so the faster we can get ourselves in front of our fans and. Back to doing what we do, the better. As long as it's safe for anybody. I thank you very much for the show's. Actually. Thank you next. GO TO GABRIELLE ARENA WITH EVERY I. Not to make. You. Just sort of braided twenty five years, so we. Read in which you have achieved the great resolve. That wrestler, but also outside the ring and congratulations. Can you tell us a moment that you find particularly significant for your? Boy Twenty five years long time. There's a lot of moments. enjoyed all of them, you know. For me even more so than the moments in the ring. I, think the. The moments back stage with everybody, and and the relationships that you build, and the people that I've had the privilege of working with all of those things will stick with me forever you know I'm. Talk about the end of an era match taker, and you know that moment at the top of the stage for me now it comes down to moments. Of of watching. The future talent grow and. Knowing that we're giving them that platform knowing that somehow in a small way we're helping them. Get there, and and it's just that you know This Sunday will be no different. You know you're GONNA see a lot of talent. Some of which have been in this position before we're takeovers in. Stages and some of and you're going to see them rise to the occasion. And grow as performers and. In some ways it might think we shade. Those moments are almost bigger to me now than the moments of my career it's it's Kim to watching doing something in your life, and then watching your kids succeed. You know what's more special I to me right now. In this moment, I wouldn't trade any Watching watching the men and women of of Annex T and and be on just. Candidate the world to do have that opportunity. Live there gene Those are the moments now for me better, the most important. Okay thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you the next go to Sean Ross? Sap with Mike Ball. Eight Ball, thank you very much. Can you walk us through the process of the Drake Mavericks Situation Him giving his releases his heartfelt message, and then one him being allowed to continue in the tournament that he was scheduled for, and ultimately being offered another contract including. What point did you realize that you were going to keep them around? And what does that do for his contract? Is he just effectively on the same deal before is he resigned to a new deal. How how does that work? So the the drake situation came about we already have the tournament, but Gout, and and I believe at that point seven is a little bit of a jumble with me without going back and looking, but I believe we had promoted audio time and. and then the releases happened which are horrible, and no one wants to see anybody. Lose their job especially in the world right now, but you know a lot of companies. Around the world or having to make business decisions in this moment in time to ensure that they are still there as as this continues on and and. Difficult decisions were made. He was given the option of continuing the tournament wanted to and. You know wanted to prove that you can still be. If you. Met Him. or No that all is? He's just one of the most passionate guys and loves. WWE just wants to be here. It's his dream the whole thing. couldn't couldn't be a better. Guy And You know as we said in the moment of time when when the release happened. It wasn't like he was involved in anything. So you know. Your. Interest happened the way it did, but. Through the process of this tournament, and he just can capture people's Archie captured their imagination and he he in that spot and. You know it was already out there in the biggest way possible so you nord or you or you turn it into something and turn it into to something. based on his him and his performances and I'm thrilled personally thrilled for him that he can. Continue to do what he loves doing. What he dreamed about doing and that he has that opportunity going forward because sends a great guy and and. I'm thrilled that we were able to to get where we did. Thanks Sean. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on PW Torch Daily Cast Dot com hosted by me. Pw Torch columnist Greg Parks each week I'll welcome a CO host torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight, pm Eastern on Sunday nights with the wwe or impact. Pay Per view. Go on the air at. At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit, PW Torch Daily Cast Dot Com. Click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show, link search, pw torch, an apple, podcast or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday Twa Torch daily, CAST DOT COM. Initial goal to Francesco Paul Marini Calcio public. Figure, yes I. I I had. And and the question for me about of course denies matter who you? Thanks to the nightmare as tune to dry to cure and me title and that it could be up to them to Bruno. Sammartino actually he's. Important for me and What do you do you want to say to? I mean. We look to bringing performers from everywhere raid performers to me. It doesn't matter. Where they're from or or anything else and being for great athletes, great performers, great characters, great personalities Family, it has all those and I'm thrilled for him that he's in the position. These and I think that's very important Italy But to me you know to me. He's just a phenomenal talent and like I said as we look all over the globe we have. Talent from. Just about anywhere the diversity of our rosters and our performance center annex, P and everything else Is Is you know there's there's a ton of diversity and I'm very proud of that so. Excited for him and excited for the position. He's in and he's got the whole world in front of him because he gives an incredibly talented guy. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. And? Thank you and next. We'll go to Mike Johnson with PW INSIDER DOT COM. Power all the way down the list what happened? Yeah, but. These. People striking was your question. sorry. I'm good, I hope you. Guys are doing well as well You mentioned the cinematic quality of. Velveteen Dreams Adam Cole we've seen. In the last couple of months. WRESTLEMAINIA was pre taped money in the bank and elements of live and cinematic for takeover. Since this is the first one of the Sarah. What's the ratio of lot content? That's taking place as watch it versus material that's. Advance obviously the cinematic stuff is going to be more production, quality and elements to that, but the rest of the show. What are we looking at? Yeah so. Basically everything else in the show within with the exception of developing dream Adam Cole matches life. as you know that that matches already been done and it was It was shot outdoors, so there was some component to that of of weather that we wanted to be Sauce yourself, but everything else would in the show. math wise, we'll be like. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you expo? Go to better Rita Silva Sports Fair. If I only signed polling. P. One lesson from one of must be match for. People For the MVP moments attention she got. And what would you think about the big rig accessories they're buying. Starting the last. I'm sure I missed the end of the question I. Can You? Can you repeat it? I know you're talking about the women's match, but I just missed the question. That I was looking at the Macha and the one. The. That WWL new needs he needs to. Reach the in that. Yes. So. I believe the question is. How well the the women have done over the last few years, is that is that accurate won't yeah. God I'm I'm. Continually blown away by our women I haven't been. Since the beginning of you know when when we started doing annex, kid and I I shouldn't say that before that are women have always risen to the occasion, but the opportunity changed. The platform changed in, and they took at in and and made that change happen, so you know as as for me talking about next he. Can Go back to the pages and the. You know pass that the Sasha's and the Bailey's Becky Lynch Charlotte, flair, and all the women that you think of the beginning of that XP kind of. CHANGE OF PACE and the change of what? women were doing in Rink You fast forward that today and. You know more often than not. They're stealing the show more often than not. They are You know telling. Better stories. You know I it just. It's amazing what they can do and and. The in ring product is off the chart, and I can look into the performance center, the athletes that are in it and you. The six woman just takeover with teague Inox CIANCI black card vm. Candidates Dakota racale. Well, the the the the depth of what is there the amount of women that that have that ability to steal the show at any given moment is incredible so I couldn't be more proud of all of them they have. Worked so hard for they have given everything they. They have for it You know and I and I think that's why it's so successful. They pour their heart and soul into everything they do and They've they've delivered every time so? So proud of them. Okay, thank you awesome. Thank you. and. We'll take another international question. Alistair McGeorge with Metro UK. I how you doing? Hey I was. You. Don't see well. Thank you doing okay. Yeah. I'm, DOING Good. Good I thought I wanted to talk to you about Kind of specifically the out much. I'm Jeremy Boorda Russia's involvement. I know he was heavily involved in so I WANNA talk skiing. How much credit Jimmy Rushing by extension holiday kinda deserve with cinema chains, being such a viable comes. In these times well. I, it's. It's a funny thing that people say. Like all of a sudden, there's this moment that there's a cinematic thing that happened, but like people doing that. You know. Twenty years ago. Rocking and Mick Foley at halftime heat Boston and and Booker in in grocery store There's so many of those things over the years that have happened they did they did. They do a great job taking that to another level? Absolutely, Jeremy's an incredible. Incredible talent with with an eye for storytelling, an I for image and everything else, and then I can't tell you how much I love working with him the one thing that I I don't you know I wanna be careful say there was a whole team of people that worked on that as well so you know. Diabetes name gets thrown in their lot, but but the team that worked on that that was a total team effort Of Multiple. People Multiple Camera. People The you know that you negate the edit process to two guys in particular that worked on that that are TV studio that. Just turned it into artwork. You know to me, The scoring the just everything that was done in that mold, he's like You know made a movie and then just putting it all on one person, and and I don't mean that is a knocked in just clearly these phenomenal but Show many people deserve credit for that and and it was all done. Quickly put together. There wasn't a large planning process around so that the the fact of what came to be was was amazing and I was you know to be honest? I was thrilled for. You know. I was feeling for fancy to see in Wrestlemainia. Everything like that I'm still pray Jay. buffer taker to me. That was the that was the thing of just. You know one one more situation where he gets the you know he's coming back. He's going GonNa do this thing and all the sudden man. Everything is falling apart around the again. It's becoming. Something is not and. You know that's that's tough and You know I was I was really thrilled with how it came out for him. More so than anybody else, but to to that to that fact, and that's something engaged the the met already Jeremy Boyish. Mitch mentioning you know. That that took it to another level. There's all steps in this thing, but to say it all started there. I mean I think to be is is not accurate. On the time for your time, really crazy enough. Thank you. Hardly remember the days when women's wrestling matches were relegated to the mid card, dumping ground and treated like a glorified intermission. The era when it was only men and the top spots in the main events getting the biggest matches every night, yeah! Vaguely. Seriously while we might have a long way to go, we really have come a long way baby, and that's why we started grit and glitter. A car cast covering the best in the world of women's wrestling. From the Horse Women. To The goddesses of stardom and everyone and tweeting. Tuesday emily myself and our team of guest correspondence talk that best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling. Plus interviews deep dies and discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women in behind the scenes ropes just search p. w torch in the PODCAST APP for your choice to subscribe or listen on demand can see the entire pw torch David schedule at torch. Dot Com. That's the year I. Think Kelly Roles with PW PORCH DOT COM. Kelly how you doing Paul? So. Good yourself I'm not too bad here. Off in the suburbs so I'm okay. Okay so We've seen a lot more surprise on an xt in recent months. Yes, but but even more so lately for instance last night. I thought Larkin were used as very effective. Red Herrings to be the next number one contenders when we're really working towards. When something else and I'm just curious if the amount of surprise that we're seeing is. Just a series of interesting advance kind of converging at once, or was this a calculated move toward more surprise to elevate the weekly TV show. What? I think You always want to elevate everything and elevate you shows and custom board I I don't think he's ever attended. We go. Let's not surprise them. but You know we're we're you just always want to make the best possible show that you can and Sometimes you have great ideas that lead to a a nice surprise for people that you hope. don't. Come out and Don't get reported on Thursday and can be a surprise, and you know it's actually been one of the Nice things. With the the. Way We're doing TV. Now is that you have the ability to Do things and not necessarily have it. Get out there before it airs, and that's just nice from a from fans fan, standpoint of the ability to be surprised the ability to. Tune into something. Not Know what's going to happen beforehand or not already have the. report that all these people in there and they're going to do this in the show tonight and you know it take. It takes away from the enjoyment. Of offense and whatever we can do that. We tried to so. Let, people thought it was a good surprise. Absolutely just great weekly TV's recently. Thanks a lot. But thank you. Thank you now we'll go to Alex. McCarthy was talksport. Fool how you doing. I'm doing all right. How about yourself? You stand today over there? Yeah things a farmer I. AM thank you very much I'm one of the lucky ones against. just talking about. This weekend, but I wanted to touch on the women's treating threat from she be the decision. The Bell on Charlotte at Wrestlemania. Has Various Connotations, not helping the brands you have a presence on different shows and working with other women, so maybe raise up to and How have you been with her? Carrying the talk? The she's been having because It seems like the Nice talks out. That's meant to triple weekend. Yeah, you know For me I been through with this whole thing. I think this speaks to Charlotte as a performer and I know sometimes. She's just. Bashed and and because we're dad and enter name and everything else she. You know No no matter what she does. Sometimes, it's criticized book to me this as a performer that she would WanNa do this that you want work across all the brands. If she could that, she would want to Terry that torch, when it was front of her, and and to do this, and and really the longterm on this is building up. Other talent and You know as spectacular as a moment of as Ria Ripley add. and then going into Wrestlemainia. I wish they could've had that in the stadium I. Wish they could have had that. In front of Fan I wish for both of them for everybody, but you know For. Ria and have that moment in. Charlotte in that stadium would have been kind of a making moments or and. To me, the that lost almost helps her as a character. Get to where she needs to be from the long-term arc of who she is. You know the burn out. Factor and stuff is intensive, quick and short attention spans, and and everything else to this phenomenon And Charlotte carries with the Aura of whether proceeds from a work or perceived from behind the scene standpoint of somebody that is. Unbeatable or that this champion that carries yourself in a different light. You feel it at least I do when I see her on TV that she tears yourself in a different way. to have real. Ripley Neo Shirai. Step into the ring with that and. And be able to do what they all can do. They're gonNA. Turn this thing up on Sunday and I know they will There is nothing Charlotte likes more than when people say She's been given something then. Going out there and putting on the performance of the night and showing everybody why she is where she is I, know rea- feels like she's got something to prove that where she was wasn't for a flu or anything else. and He Osha Awry is ready and willing and able to step up to that level like I said earlier one of the greatest. Be The greatest entering female in the world to make that argument very easily, so this match will be off the chart. I know they're gonNA WANNA. Steal the show I know they're gonNA. WanNa take it to another level and I'm thrilled with words at. Thank, you. Thank you. Of Pro, wrestling best podcasts are VIP exclusive, and you can go, VIP, and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content, including Pro Wrestling Torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell. I usually host that program, although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight, but primarily providing insight and hard, hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means also the fix with todd. Martin every mid week. Todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest TV, shows and events from wwe w new Japan and many others, plus we'll keep you up to date on what just happened in the world of? USC Baladora and more, and what's coming up the following weekend plus book reviews, reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the world, pro wrestling scene, and then the unmatched mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world I know exaggerating, but this is grace up with the fixed. Listeners provide fantastic questions and todd delivers every week. You will learn. You will think and you'll. You'll appreciate professional wrestling on another level when you go VIP and that includes Bruce and joining me for post, pay per view roundtables, following wwe and e w pay per view events where we spend roughly an hour, sometimes longer breaking down the pay per view as soon as it ends, we are recording that podcast, and within about ninety minutes. It's available for VIP members on our VIP exclusive podcast feet. All the VIP shows. Shows are available on popular podcast. APPS on both iphone and Android, no ads no plugged on the exclusives and remove the plugs and ads from the free shows that also show up on the VIP podcast feed sometimes sooner than the general public has access to them. That's just scratching the surface. Go check out full details on VIP benefits. Including Retro Radio shows from the early to late nineteen. Ninety s our podcast dating back to. To the mid-2000s back issues with Progressing Torch weekly newsletter over sixteen, hundred of them, and so much more full details at peak w torch VIP Info Dot, com that's P. W. Torch, VIP INFO dot com join the ranks so the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcast lineup anywhere. Go VIP and get these shows with the employees removed also a huge bonus. POW. Torch VIP INFO DOT COM. will go to Miguel's Hetero as with Markelle. Don't me. I'm good you. Thank you. For having us today. Meal if you could speak a little bit louder. I'm just having a little bit of a hard time hearing. Sure, we'll. That's better thank you. Okay so let's Card One year ago that it'd be team performance center in the United Kingdom Do you think that there is any possibility to open more performance centers Latinamericano Japan in the future. Yes. I think that that is still a goal, the. International expansion so to speak whether that's performance centers whether that's recruiting in markets whether that's creating localized content like we've done with NHTSA UK, and and and having a brand there on the ground. You know the the moment in time we're in with a global pandemic, and everything else has as You know obviously put a lot of that on on hold, and you have to figure out where. Where things will go after you come out of this situation, but that is very much. Still the goal you talk about the UK Performance Center and K we're still is committed to that as ever. I can't wait. I know We have a lot of athletes chomping at the bit. That can't wait for the rains to be taken off over the restraints. It'd be taken off. Let them get back to what they do what they love to do And I think that product once once when they're giving the green light that probably it'd be spectacular just from enthusiasm and and I can't wait. You know. We have a lot of talent to win when all this started to happen. You know Kinda like P, goven and everybody. We send them home just because we could see some of this travel coming and try to get them. Back in and everything before it became problematic and that we're just waiting for this to open up so that. We can get back to. Doing what we do and they can get back to their careers, and so you know when when all of this is behind us, it'll be very exciting for them and also globally at expansion, will be. A huge for a lot of markets. Earn again. And I hope that in Cobra in your house. A great show, thank you. Thank you. ALL RIGHT NEXT TO JASON POWELL! With pro wrestling dot net. Our? Jason How you doing? Well, thank you so I. Guess my question is all the wrestlers in crew receiving actual coded testing now and if not why not? Shooting, so the testing we do is what we have obviously A. medical experts on our team. What about Dark Maroon, donkey this, so they work with CDC and the government to determine what is the best approach? For us to take to ensure the safety in the wellness of our performance, and that is what we do. That is working with the local and federal government. You know. When when you begin to talk about various types of testing and there's a lot of that. thrown around. The accuracy of those tests. Become questionable and how in and everything else so? You know we need to We need to do what we're being told to do by the medical experts, and once that widespread testing that is accurate becomes available. We will do so, but the accuracy of those tests has to be there first, but in the meantime our medical protocols are extensive. And most importantly they've worked. Very good for your time. Thank you next? Go to Rahul from Christian with republic. Bought out. Used sure. I'm good. How are you? Sure, you're? Okay well fault so I'm calling from India, and that's a huge fan following. An. In India. Up. Happening in India last two months, and people are hooked onto WB and Steve and watching not just. Alert here in India because it's abilities as much watch sport in India after cricket. So just wanted to understand you a bit of the that what? Tournament. During the situation and any message you want. Give you a times in India. So I missed the first part of the question about the tournament is already cut up for half a second. Could you repeat that? Yeah Yeah sure so I was just acting in the current Dario, what are the challenges that you face by pulling off such a huge? Tournament McDougal. But you know in in this time, obviously, the safety and and health of our calendar's first and foremost so could challenges have been many Challenges with the location with keeping anybody say all of that As as everybody else. Has You know we're? We're one of the few things that has. been able to. Stay out there and and and keep putting out products even without fans being there So it's very challenging, and as far as India goes I. I'm very excited. About our? One our fan base in India. I've been there many times. This is one of my favorite places and The fans are second to none. I cannot wait for this to all. Be Behind us so that we can get there and increase that. That footprint in India, I would love to bring there I would love to to get further into that market and and she, where we can go with it, and developed it and make increase that fan base and their passion, even more really really get in there and deliver something for them special. Right sure, thank you bald anger by. Some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are the IP exclusive, and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content, including pro wrestling torch senior columnist. Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell show usually host that program, although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight, but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means also the fix with Todd Martin every mid week. Todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest TV shows and Major. Major events from WWe E W new, Japan and many others, plus we'll keep you up to date on what just happened to the world of anime USC, Delatour, and more, and what's coming up the following weekend plus book reviews, reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the worldwide pro wrestling scene and the unmatched mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world I know I sound like I'm exaggerating, but this grace up the fix. Listeners provide fantastic questions and todd delivers every week. You will learn. You will think, and you will appreciate professional wrestling on another level when. When you go VIP and that includes Bruce and todd, joining me for post, pay per view roundtables, following wwe and a e w pay per view events where we spend roughly an hour, sometimes longer breaking down the pay per view as soon as it ends, we are recording that podcast, and within about ninety minutes it's available for VIP members on our VIP exclusive podcast feed. All the shows are available on popular podcast APPs on both iphone and Android, no ads, no plugs in the exclusives, and we removed the plugs and ads from the free shows that also show up on the VIP. podcast feed sometimes sooner than the general public. Public has access to them. That's just scratching the surface. Go check out full details on VIP benefits including. Retro Radio shows from the early to late nineteen, ninety s our podcast dating back to the mid two thousands back issues with pro progressing torch weekly newsletter over sixteen, hundred of them, and so much more full details at peak w torch VIP INFO DOT com. That's W. Torch Vip Info Dot, com join the ranks so the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcast lineup anywhere. Gobi and get these shows with the ads and plugs removed also a huge bonus pw torch VIP INFO DOT COM. For more falls. Thank you. Thank you our next. One will come from Christian friends with power wrestling. All good evening from Germany. So exceed last week. Introduce the brand new version of a cage match with Timothy Thatcher in Madrid. How did the idea come about for the five paid? And how did you think of the acution? Of Having Mall Metro with this. Much concept in the future. And, so the the the fight pit as we call it Sort of came about organically you. The right performers were there was with Matt Riddle Timothy Stature to To talent that bring a different style, a more ground-based sort of. Grappling Style and and you know Matt Riddle can do just about anything and Timothy Fat. You're such a good, technical grappling wrestler, and and so gritty and tough, that type of environment seem like the right environment for them You know we base it off some things in the past some things that we wanted to see and and were able to put it all together. I think It really captivated people, and and of course match delivered. which is always the key to that? But I think people were intrigued by it and I think that has become or will will become one of the sort of You know I guess your matches of X. t that the fight bit can can sort of be the the go-to grudge badge, or something like that where I think you'll definitely see more of them in the future. I was thrilled with that one. I think fans enjoyed it, and I look forward to doing more with. Great stuff on my hope, it we turn off of in your house. It doesn't bring back many memories of the Hawks Ten match making ninety five but times. Thank you. Yeah I'm nightmare still above the Ogden that those bigger big than a lot. Thank you next. Bill Pritchard with wrestles, zone DOT com. Eyeball no radio. Hey Bill. How're you doing? so I wanted to ask about the in your house being back and when the plan to have this as a team event, came up if it had anything to do with the current situation, and can you see returning as an annual event kind of like how wargames of become a fall of entry goes? Yeah you know absolutely came about. Given the circumstances you know as as takeaways evolved in the beginning they all. The names and then we as we started going to the cities, we started sort of. More than into the city location, and so it's always a fluid. work-in-progress Kinda thought so this came about when we were going to have the opportunity to do a take over on on June seventh on the network and You know when we do that now because we're. We're back in Florida and we're in our home and it's not like you want to go back to the city or anything, so the conversation came up and it just seemed like the perfect timing for where everybody's stuck in their house. It's perfect timing and You know the reaction was huge. It was funny that we made the decision to name it in your house. we take over in your house. And it wasn't until after we'd made the decision that it was pointed out to me that it was like a couple of days before the twenty fifth anniversary of the first in your house Dave just happy coincidence, it so it all worked out great and Yeah. I think we'll see where it goes, and and the enjoyment level and everything else, but it definitely could become something that comes back and and we'll see how. The enjoyment level is and everything else is good as I think. It's GonNa. Be I. Think People might come back, so we'll work on it. Thanks very much for your time. Thank you bill. I that'll wrap up today's conference. Call as always. Thank you for everybody for being on the call. We are going to do a post show after takeover this Sunday night, so we will send out details to the people that. Turned off. I I really appreciate everybody's participation today and I know there's there's a lot going on in the world and I really appreciate the time and everybody's interest and I Also just. Please everybody out there. Stay safe and the healthy and hopefully we will. Get you all watching on Sunday and I will talk to you after the show and we can chat again. Thank you so much and took it. That'd be as we're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? Why deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member, support the weight Keller pro wrestling podcasts wait tiller, progressing shows, the Peterlee torch daily casts and the entire team and everything that we do and get a ton of return for your membership by becoming a VIP member. Go to W Torch V. Info Dot Com for full details. Thirty plus years of archives podcast Retro Radio Shows Over Sixteen hundred back issues of the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter, a fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the podcast way Keller, Post Shows N. P. W. Torch daily casts, and several exclusive VIP podcast, just about every day dozens of VIP, exclusive podcast that you're not hearing because you're not a VIP member, so go VIP POW. Torch VIP INFO, DOT COM, subscribe to our VIP podcast feed and listen in a streamlined way with no interruptions to Oliver podcasts again. That's torture VIP Info. Dot Com. All right, let's let's just kind of a preview in prediction segment here on an xt takeover coming up Sunday night four takeover only six matches advertised, so it seems unlikely this will be a four hour marathon. Let's see well. By the way sort of. A, A little bit interesting that as Debbie has doubled down on Sunday night by. Switching these next takeovers to the Sunday nights rather than the old. Saturday nights we see Awa, obviously during the Saturday nights impact in their next papers could be on Saturday night. So you almost have these two ten new Japan when they've on major shows in the US on Saturdays as well. She's got these two ideas now. Where a lot of the other wrestling companies are now going with what the does, which is in boxing as well which is a Saturday nights. The motto will be shifts even more towards the sun at model, not like a big deal by any means, but I thought that was interesting. Yeah! All right so let's see. We'll start with keithly Johnny Gargano for the North American Championship. Just kind of an overview of of the bill in the tone that they've taken and what you see happening here in what you think, they should do instead if it's different. You go either way here. I mean it's it's both guys strong characters in two of the stronger characters they have on the brand, so they're both people that are protected acts and I would think that the way that you decide to go on it as more based on what you have planned in the future. I mean if you WANNA have Keith leave. Let's say move up to their in Rostov suggest Ghana winning. If you're thinking Gargano, is a he'll going to challenge a baby face call for the main title. Then you don't want to presumably don't want to have the North American title here unless you decided to merge the titles which I don't think they're going to do. So I think it's you know when you've got to key players like desert. It often is more about like. We're the the next sixteen months or planned. I think that's going to be a challenge as a match in terms of like the face, being so much bigger than the he'll, but I definitely think they'll pull it off because they're both very talented. Gargano I think has been so. Obnoxious and Just noxious in the way that he's got about presenting himself that even though he's a lot smaller, you just want Keith to catch him and beat them up. and I think that's a bully mentality way. You don't speak for me okay for me. And I think it's resonating with with most of the audience. That says about you versus me and the rest of the audience if we go with that presumption. It'd be in the minority. Okay good. But Yeah I think I think our anos is really really embracing being a heel and. Keith Lee is sort of like. His body language of. Sort of exhaling like this guy and there's sort of a methodical way that he's trying to take care of you know. Take take him down and quote. Teach them a lesson. given what he's got coming. I. Think People are going to root for in a way that normally they wouldn't. I think it. It mitigates some of what you bring up. which is the size difference makes Johnny? Gargano sympathetic Gargano has done an artful and I think effective job, although we won't live crowd of getting people into a position where they just emotional state where they wanna see Gargano just. Kind of destroyed or at least beat up quite a bit. I agree the guard Ghana's done a very good job as a heel I thought that it was going to be a lot of us. We're thinking this is going to be a challenge to see how you would do. Just because he's so associated as a baby face that you know sometimes, it can be difficult to to shift people like that and I think the fact there isn't. A cloud is probably helped him in terms of. Interested people not sharing him just because he's doing. A good job I I don't I, don't. Think it's sort of a fiction to buy into the idea that people are really sort of invested in seeing. Most heels get beaten these days I think most people that are watching takeover are just there to watch an entertaining show and NC fund moves matches. I don't think a lot of people are really thinking in terms of all. I want to see Gargano get his. Which is You know long term a long term issue. That's GONNA. Take a lot of you know. A lot of A lot of steps to sort of correct but I. I don't think it's I. Don't think it's accurate to pretend that that. That setup still really exist to a significant degree with. Wrestling in general shows in particular. Yeah all right. So up next. We'll look at Adam, Cole Velveteen Dream. A last chance backlog brawl for the next championship showed the scene of the back lot with ring, setup and car, surrounding it with the headlights on. The. Uncle Chase I mean I feel like that's promised as part of this thing, yes. So well, at least if people are like in the back of their pickup, trucks the definition kind of socially space while they're. They're cheering, cheering and booing and heckling wildly from from the audience. So, yeah I mean your your thoughts on on the two possible. Decisive outcomes here and if you think there's a third option that should be considered in terms of where they go with this. I. You know it sounds like me another cinematic. Is a bunch people are going to involved undisputed Narran Dexter Lummus. Should certainly win I expect. Call the win I would. Figure would be a mistake to put over dream because he just has a little millennia right now, but. You know who knows I'm? We talked about this before. I'm surprised that they ran back this match I just I. You know they already did it Wrestlemainia. Call one that one and wrestling the. Bid The matches that were in place of what would have been the takeover And so I figured. You know they move on to something else so. It does make you wonder a little bit why they continue to you know month. Maybe they have something bigger planned on, and that's the reason, but we'll say. When you download and listen to the weight Keller pro wrestling Poe shows we get right into the analysis of what happened. If you WANNA get a foundation of what happened. If you didn't watch the show or a sneak peek at what I thought of the show checkout POW torch dot com, where I cover raw awa or annex, T and smackdown on Monday Wednesday and Friday nights. I'm updating my. My reports every few minutes during the program, so whether you're watching or not checkout w torch dot com, and hit refresh during the shows or catch up after the shows are completed same thing by the way for wwe pay per views. That's P W torch dot com read the results full details of what happened and analysis of the segments on the show. That's P W TORCH DOT com. Is. Velvety if between dream last coal, and they call them up to the main roster you feel. Setting aside the the controversy with the texting, just from a character and your confidence in obviously. Devaluation be how he performs on takeover, but are you more or less confident that he could be? A top level semi top level, valuable character Anwar smack down for years to come. Wade you know the answer that question. Does, everybody listening. I would think so. I think everybody would say that. He has less of a chance right now. He's called. He isn't as over the people he hasn't been having good matches, and the crowds are such a big part of the velveteen dream. Though chain Dream Act yeah. I. Mean I I can't imagine that. Calling him up right now and would give him an equal opportunity to getting all for. If you've been called up in, say February that seems to me pretty pretty clear now. Will he be able to regain the? The Satcher that he had before when when we eventually start getting crowds back. I think that's entirely possible. And as possible that he'd be able to get over in spite of some of those limitations if they call them up right now, yeah I. think that's also possible but. Dream given the way things are right now. I would definitely be much more inclined to keep and take a-. Keep an annex chief for for a while longer, both because as I mentioned, the crowd is a big part of Dream Act and I think calling them up right now. He could get lost in the shuffle. A lot quicker than people are thinking, would be possible and also because he's still a guy that can use some more seasoning. I mean a lot of the people on this. This main roster on the next roster have been working in a working. You know high quality professional wrestlers for a very long time. You know some them for fifteen years. And Velveteen dream is only been doing that for a few years, and as we've gone further without the crowds and these matches we've seen a lot of people make adjustments and get better and better in the ring. We've seen a lot of you know I feel like the quality of the wrestling has gone up and I. Think you've made this point as well I agree with you. If assuming I'm remembering that crackly that we've praise the opinion, I definitely said it. We've seen them sort of getting into the groove and sort of finding ways to work better without the crowd and. In a lot of cases, people who are very smart about wrestling and under the entering component, arresting and understanding how to get. The crowd invested in finding ways to adapt to the lack of a crowd I don't think we've seen that nearly as much from velveteen dream, which makes intuitive sense given as you know, we set up from the beginning. He is much less experienced than most of the people he's wrestling with. You know I was thinking when after quite honestly that you might say. Yeah he he. He isn't a different person than he was a few months ago in annex. T when it seemed like it would be a hot actor. BRING UP! He's gone cold in annexed. A change of sanitary will do him good. It has worked for other people where they are more better fit characterized in booking tone wise for. The way that runs. mcdonagh presented in which characters seem to thrive in that environment compared to annex t and so I thought that might be. That might be the direction you go with that question. The list of people that have done better on smackdown I think I'm more as That anyway. That's a valuable point of clarification. because. Yeah I mean there are people that that aren't as good that have gone. Push more unwise. SMACK DAB but I don't I. Don't put Velveteen Dream in the category of like not particularly talented people that yet they might get more of a push Anwar. SMACK DOWN so. You know maybe I don't know. Maybe maybe Vincent van would see something valvoline drain, but I I don't I don't take that as a a given either yeah, all right so moving onto the women's Triple Threat Charlotte champion Ripley Ray Ripley Shirai. The video feature again was a prime target. They they called it. Sounds like to me. Just was so well done Yoshua. Ri- She had to get a problem before she got underwater, so then they had to do captions because she was speaking to water standard, but I thought the visual of that and. Her weight I'm not sure that the reasons they had. The captions was the water. What what's your? What's your other theory? that. You're speaking of Japanese. I don't know I. Mean I thought of that? But. I mean when she was like infinity gasping for breath void, gasping for breath water, starting to get to her nose level is reach. Seeking, me, own isolated. I am actually not even sure. Do you think she was saying that in in English or Japanese? Oh actually Japanese, but you're ruining my. Okay it okay. I was sure maybe maybe she did. Maybe she was. It was hard. Understand it away. Expense to your point which I was. You know obviously. Ribbing Youth Yeah. Wrestling fans, are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life well, we're those kind of people to, but we do so with mixed martial arts I'm Robert via hosts hosts of enemy. Talk for Pro Wrestler advanced every Monday on W. Torch, his daily cast lineup. Not only do we cover every you see Bella tour event. We provide context that only a wrestling fan would really understand. I mean we're the type of people that if you ask us about how much of a mess the middleweight title situation is were likely to reference, WCW in the early nineties, think of us as a podcast for casual MMA. Done by hardcore, wrestling nerves, and you could find us by searching pw torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast apple, and were always available on demand APP e W Torch daily cast dot com, where you can check out the entire lineup of the PD torch daily tests. But overall I mean I thought they'd just the incorporation of testimonials. From kind of New York media types, and some some legends Beth Phoenix. Web It just. The way it was. We've done with an Italian everybody. That was there it just it made them feel like a bigger deal and it. I thought it really. I thought it showed that he knows who each of these characters are, and how to best portray them and. You have to do the imagery and the captions, and but also convey what her thoughts are, even if she can't do it herself in English and so other those really effective in Ripley, getting up at five thirty am and cutting up the bananas in the in the protein powder, and just saying you know. The Gym is her home and. retelling the narrative of her year, and how Twenty Nineteen so great twenty twenty hasn't been so good. That probably applies to larger swath of society. I think that's a noncontroversial opinion. and talking about Wrestlemainia, being a big moment for her in in it. I thought it did ineffective job of. Showing that she isn't just like. How I think it did a really good job getting mindset about how she's using that to motivate her again, and it didn't defeat her and give people a reason to have confidence that you know that that was a last, but she's coming back from it, and then just explaining why she came out at the royal rumble when she did and refreshing people's memories or filling them in. If there are joining this midstream thought her portrayal was real sympathetic, and then again I thought they did really nice. Job. Charlotte to and talking about history and annex, T and how people say she doesn't belong there, but when she walks in, she feels at home. And that she. Is that going back to annex? T isn't like a step down but it's a way of testing herself against. She doesn't being gracious in the way she frames it, but really talented group challenges so overall I. I I know you complimented earlier, too, but a really nice segment, not just. Not just terms to what was said and how it was said, but just the whole presentation of it and all the editing of the different voices. I did find much like it. As far as the match because I think that it should be a very good match, I would expect I. I'm certainly expecting that they'll want rea- to eventually beat Charlotte one on one, so the finish here based on Debbie, booking seems ridiculous. The obvious which is re has shrive, penned Charlotte three off and steals spin on the. That, that feels like almost like a stone. Cold Lock as far as what's going to happen here edited in a spoiler alert about twelve seconds ago. Yeah. No it does. I I will be pleased if they find another satisfying finish. That isn't. As? They ace out of spite finishing. Period. As they say in England full stop. Yeah and I think it has to be just a really good match to you think this headlines. Do you think they in the show with this? You think coal after for one year championing gets dream that I guess part of it depends on what the finish is going to beat, because sometimes it's. How they want the show to end, that dictates what goes on last more than how the lineup looks into the show. Go, ahead launch. Yeah okay. Then, we have been. Not had beller Damian priest. One on one. Not a ton of on this week show on that but nevertheless a big match in the sense of being really established Damian pre-spring, somebody there high on with an upper trajectory what expect to see here, both in terms of match quality and the personality mix, and then the meaning the finish what that would mean? Expected to be good. I think the question. Just how good and a big part of that is going to be how motivated they are whether they're in. They're trying to have this killer match or whether they're in their thinking. We'll have a good match and that that'll be fine. And Both of them have you know has been you know in both I remember. David! Priest having this. You know all out match with Jay White at one point in H, whereas like those guys were like. Wow, we've and we really need how the best possible matches can have here and then others wear you know sort of a match and there wasn't a lot to it whereas with. With Ballard similar deal, he's been on the main roster for such period of time that you know he's. He knows how to work and have A. You know a good match, but not not having the sort of match that he would if you were in, you know. Going to new Japan, and and in there with. Will, ask Brian, and they obviously would have pretty strong expectation about what they should do so yeah, I mean we'll see what they have planned as far as the finish, I'd have ballor win. I just think like he is perceived as more of a star and I think priests can afford the loss and I F. Frankly I don't see priests at that high of a light anyway so I'd put over Ballard in this match. All right then we have tomato Champa, carrying cross was scarlet, another other singles match, but they've. In a short period of time really created I think intensity to it. I mean this match the most intriguing one to me. I'm I'm very curious how they do this I. Think Cross should definitely win, but they could lay this out a bunch of different ways I I tend to think that your back and forth let's have the most exciting match. Possible template isn't the best idea here I. Think you know the idea is. It's better to do something that puts over carrying cross. Pretty Strong Immediately while also. Protecting trump to some degree in the process because CIAMPA is. A Future Act and A key person for them, but I think the the priority here should be crossed I. Expect the priority here to beat cross. All right, and then they also have six woman. Tag me a Yelm. Chassis Black Arteaga knocks against Caterpillar rated CODA kyw. Gonzalez solace those kind of setup or at least amplified in terms of the personal issues with brawl during last night's show any thoughts on this. Coasted it Costa. At know very very light 'til based on what they had before. It feels like we've seen permutations of this like eight thousand times on television I. It's it's hard to generate a lot of interest at this point and to me. So I think that's I think that covers the. Covers the entire life. Do you expect this overall to be a a really good show kind of the middle of the road solid show? Or does it look like it actually has more potential. Be Disappointing. I never will be good in the takeovers are always a good show, but between not having a crowd and looking at the lineup it could. It feels like there's a real good chances. The the week has taken quite a while. Yeah, almost by almost by design. In because I watched some of the pace of the booking and the match ups, even velveteen, dreaming and the challenge position here, and and sometimes it is it. Does it feel flat because there's no crowd, or does it feel flat? Because by design? They're trying to spread slowdown the booking. Or go to some be plan, so they can save their plans for. When they have. At least some fans in attendance in in this show feels as if it's you gotta take over. June and we want to have some value on the network, but we're not gonNA even pretend this as a wrestlemainia weekend show. Doesn't feel any show. I think also contributing factors I just don't think the booking has been very good since since wrestlemainia or so on the next. on the next few brand I feel like they've you know they've fallen into some bad patterns and there hasn't been a lot of inspiration. The booking I think that they. They don't have a lot of momentum to me. Now is the time to overpay for razors at the drug store Harry's. No, sometimes, it's better to stay inside and that's why they ship directly to you, so you can experience the quality of Harry Shave and just a few days from the convenience of your own home I love here's razors because of the fit and finish of the razor blade for me I don't like putting a cheap plastic blade or a heavy blade. That's off. OFF balance up against my face when I'm shaving Harry's has perfect fit and finish that balance in that sense of quality, and that sense of safety along with a great shave, join the ten million who have tried Harry's claim, your special trial offer by going to Harrys dot com slash daily cast. That's harrys dot com slash daily cast Harry's is super. Convenient Blade refills are delivered directly to your door on your schedule with or without. Without a subscription your choice, you can feel good about your purchase. There's one hundred percent quality guarantee. If you don't love your shape, let them know they'll give you. A full refund. And one percent of proceeds are set aside for nonprofit organizations devoted to helping provide access to better healthcare for men and veterans, so listeners of our show can redeem their Harry's trial set at Harrys dot com slash daily cast. You'll get a weighted ergonomic. Ergonomic handle for a firm grip, five blade razor with lubricating strip and Trimmer Blade Rich lathering Shave Gel with keep your skin hydrated and a travel blade cover to keep your razor dry and easy to grab on the go, so go to harrys dot com slash daily cast to start shaving better today. That's Harrys. Dot Com slash daily cast to get a free Harry's trial set, and I love the packaging it comes in to. All right and now we're GONNA move to the one year ago, flashback to the VIP roundtable follow wing annex. T takeover twenty five Kelly Wells Justin. James Harley paget ran down the event entire event, which included Shane obeys ler against Yoshahara Matt versus Roderick strong a fatal four way tag match Velveteen Dream Against Tyler Breeze Adam Cole against Johnny Gargano and more full rundown in analysis of that event just over an hour. This is from one year ago. The June first two thousand and nineteen takeover previously a VIP exclusive presented here on the way Taylor. APPROACING podcast whiled card Thursday with an NFC theme for the first time here we go. Hello everyone and welcome to pita, ut talks and X T. WE'RE GONNA. Talk about takeover twenty five as they called it say where they were as a result. I don't know where they were. I'm sure. Okay. That's. Yeah they anytime. It's not a meaner huge city. They find something else to call it, so they're like Oh. Thank God. It's the twenty fifth, so he can use that So yes, over twenty five. Was it good? Let's find out I'm your host on Kelly Wells? You can find me all over social media at spooky milk. If you want to e mail us at the show you do that at pw. Torch annexed he at gmail.com. We've got at least a few emails to cover, but we don't usually get them for these takeovers. 'cause there's only so many ways you can ask the question. Wasn't that match awesome and we say yes. Yes, it was so anyway. I'm Kelly. and I already told you where to find me. Harley say. That's me I'm in Canada and on twitter at talking on her I cover rh and stardom for the Poets Torch and Justin. I'm just James It can find me at twitter. Just underscore 'em, underscore James and since we're all I'm in south. Carolina There you go. And I did not say, but I'm in a saint. Paul suburb so there you go, you'll have to guess which one. Okay, so we opened the show with Matt Riddle. Versus Roderick strong. I'm going to take credit for predicting the exact right order of the matches because I only predicted one of the matches correctly so I have to hang my head on something. I predicted the order of the matches. This is the match by the way that I predicted correctly so there you go I got the only Gimme, so matt real goes over Roderick Strong This went a bit. Justin's the one who takes the Times. I'm going to say riot probably right around eighteen nineteen. I don't know. I say sixteen change. Okay, I. It was over fifteen minutes. Alad solid like really good stuff here riddle was very good. Roddy was awesome in this match. He was relentless. He's a machine like he just does not seem to be slowed down by. Any amount of work in a match endurance is ludicrous. Man. Any other show we'd be talking about how this was a wrestling match that you could not outdo. But we'll get there anyway. Riddle beat strong continues his ease, not undefeated, but but he's close and goes over strong in. What obviously has to be one of the precursors for our next feud at the top. We don't know we're Johnny's GonNa go from here. Maybe north. But riddle and Cole is going to be in the mix soon. I would I would assume so Ritalin. Strong going on, I Harley. What did you think? Yeah I love okay first off I loved the look of the show. How the fans are complete black can even see the third row. Don't know if that would i. don't know what the ticket sales like. Maybe there is because there's some holes. They trying to cover up but I thought it would be really nice job spotlighting the guys in the ring, and I just wanted to attention to that. As. Well, a new Japan show was just on. That was like that was a complete sell out, and they still did it that way just for affect and I loved it. Yeah. And this match. Was Amazing these guys seem to work perfectly. Take this to kind of. Watch like I watch these guys. Show once a week probably at. The speed to at all the fire. The, there's this one sequence spectacular where Roddy hit. A tree or running forearms on bill, and the votes followed up with a couple of other moves for a near fall, and it was so quick and so. Crisp that I was just blown away like I missed this water strong. This is the body that I remember from back in RH. and. Annex t just over the past couple of years has. Done such a good job of defining him down that in the middle of the match I remember I was thinking to myself. was. He. He was our which world champion right? No I don't think. He's like a mid card guy, he he wouldn't have been the world champion I had to go on. We compete competing. Look up and go, oh! Okay Roderick strong beat Seth rollins for the arch. World Championship nine years ago. But. That's A. Weird to me that we don't get to see this roddy more often that he he rarely gets. A little bit more credibility than caches Ono. But not much he wins the. He doesn't win big matches. Significant matches I was never really. In doubt at any point during this match that he was going to lose. But. That's okay, too, because we're. Getting the super as he deserves his because he's incredible in the ring and. All of this. Yeah, all, this was great, and it's one of those matches where it's so good. I'm like I. Don't know what else saying. Thank you for listening to the weight Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, be sure to subscribe also if you haven't yet subscribe to the way Keller pro wrestling post shows. Show the podcast have our blue logo. The weight killer pro wrestling post shows have our red logo just search Wade, Keller and Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to progressing podcasts and click subscribe to the red logo, and you can download our raw smackdown W, and sometimes exte- Poe shows I'm joined by a Co host to added different perspective to the analysis for the show where we talked to live callers onsite correspondent, who or in the building. Who Tell us what? What did not air on TV and we also answer mailbag questions. Those shows are available for download within a few hours after the show's end on Monday Wednesday and Friday nights, so there's a fast turnaround to get your fix, so check it out. That's the Wade Keller pro wrestling post. Show just search Wade Keller. You can also stream the show live at Wade Keller polls show dot com about five minutes after the show's end on Monday Wednesday and Friday night. Yeah, it's and I knew there was gonna be some of that tonight because it was just another dynamite show. But I felt much like you did I could not buy into Roddy as a winner, but if riddle wasn't as hot as he was right now, I would have. It was it was that good and still super super into it, despite it felt like early takeover days like the first three or four they did. The booking was so obvious. You always knew who was GONNA win. Every match I want to say I did like the first four or five major shows. They did without picking a single match incorrectly, and they were still all awesome, but. But this felt that way, only this match because. They got all the time wrong Justin. What do you think what about body or Shia? That just came to me? That will be possible beautiful when it happened soon and hopefully soon. So. This match what a opener! I say cause. I dump off the podcast early on Wednesday but I picked the ladder match to be the opener with this following it in my head I, had the rest of the thought about switching I in in in my head. It was then GonNa. Be Dream breeze than Baiser. And then finally colon. But this was a hot opener in. Strong has always been strong strong wind. These guys are one is wrestlers who? Has such a great ability in the rain, but I never get emotionally invested in his matches before there's just that. That something missing right and I can't. I can't explain it I. Just can't explain where I just never got into a strong Metros. Never really what's going to happen and it happened here and I don't know if that's an evolution of strong I. Don't know if it's real because he has no I like net riddle a lot but I, I'm not like like Mr Riddle Fan. But this match had me on the edge of my seat. The whole time I was like dying in the last five minutes I can. And so rodrick strong amazing match at him real amazing match at him. Matt Riddle has some the best suplexes ever it's like. skype that that Kurt angle with that brock listener. We just love seeing. These guys hit suplexes. And Matt. Riddles got that and he's got so many different kinds of suplexes. I love with these guys do with their knees. Love. The chain wrestling that they did this was a debate they had it. In like like, we said, this was about a sixteen minute match or sixteen and Change match. And the intensity from bell to bell, these guys were in tenth gear the whole time. There is not a moment slowdown They. Just didn't stop, and they will take out to kill each other. I you know they they will take. They're going to do with me. Could within the within the boundaries that the rules in a standard professional wrestling matches our no chairs, no razor blades no fire, no bras and panties and they did everything within. The realm of of standard rules match to kill each other, and it was amazing. Stiff match loved it loved it loved it. Somebody give these guys a raise in promotion, and that's a great call out about this being. Seeming personal, but still being a great wrestling magic is times you have to get one or the other you get the straightforward wrestling match, or you get the blood feud that where they immediately to just and each other. But this this. This we got connected to hear they. They wrestled a match. That seemed like a grudge match, even though it was a great great wrestling match and I do look forward to the Bronx Pani. Rematch of of these guys, that'll be great although. The book. On a poll, how much less can riddle where really? Matches. How much I mean he's got the shortish. They're not just like short in the legs, but they're short in the ways like they start. Like his against his trunks. Millimeter above the trunk of the junk. And then he's got like this gold strategically. Put into just draw your is. Right there. I got. You're not. Medically here you go. I! Know that we saw I know so. It's strong's crack. A couple takeovers go. I think it's strong. No, no or raining or I saw so many, but crack a couple months ago. Road since that happened to him like four times theft. But. Yeah, this match was. Reading Sir. Indeed. Very Dreamy All right we went from there to. Match, lurking in Birch versus st profits versus forgotten sons versus fishing riley. Yeah I think we all agreed that. This was really really hard to call. One thing that I thought during this match is the prophets and the sons, both really benefited from what this match was because I just I was trying to imagine either team being booked in a street to onto tag team match at takeover and it couldn't. It couldn't picture it. It just seemed like. That wouldn't have seemed. Like a match that they'd be given and one of them was going to have to win. The title I and this was a great way to introduce them on pay per view. Obviously, Blake spin there, but. Not recently but yeah to get these guys on a major show like this and make it seem like they should be there. And of course they got their cool moment I am Kinda bummed that we didn't see. Montanez jump all the way, but it was kind of fun to see him. Jump into the frame at that very final moment. Fun Stuff there. One of the great benefits comes with a VIP membership is access to our unmatched library of pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues in the late nineteen eighty s and nineteen nineties before the Internet, pro wrestling was documented in print newsletters contemporaneous leap packing a week's worth of news and results and Cuban a interviews with some progress in Vegas newsmakers in the pages of the pro wrestling. Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter. When you become a VIP member, you instantly gain access on our PW TORCH VIP website to year-by-year listing of all fifty plus back issues from every year dating back to the late nineteen eighties through today and every week we update the format of our twenty years ago. Back issues with PDF text format, and it makes it easier to read on your phone. 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Bring up our match reporter star ratings are news coverage of that era or just settle in and read fascinating interviews with some pro. Pro Wrestling's biggest names in their longest form interviews, talking about the inner workings of the wrestling industry before their podcasts with wrestlers hosting and talking about such things. The torch talk series was the only place you could go for long form interviews with pro wrestling's newsmakers pw torch dot com slash Kgo v I in times like these in times like these, you'll get more out of A. VIP membership than ever so check it out. I will say. There were a couple of dangerous in the bad way. spots in this match them when. They did look emerged at the double backdrop on the sons, and then the latter went flying. It didn't look like a controlled spot. It looked messy and it just barely skimmed over. Kyle I don't know if a Riley was supposed to get out of the ring, I and didn't know that that spot was happening there. Are I don't know if the sons were just not thinking and then of course. Then, of course, we got Jackson and I thought at that moment I was like wow. I called the winners. Anti called the reason because Jackson was gonNA come out. I think Jackson raker went along long way towards towards being thought of as a monster. So that's what they wanted to do. If you like they kind of accomplish that and and they ended up having an actually. Fun Wave working into the match that lengthened the match, but and gave us some different to see than the usual spots so anyway, lots of moving parts here as you would expect, and it seems like everyone's still alive Justin. Take this one I. It was a couple spots that really had mu legit worried. particularly for the health of Kyle O'Reilly? he he, he took a couple, really nasty bumps, and he saw it on his back. And they were not his fault. Any of them you know they. wirt Kyle Riley, did something stupid and paid the price it was somebody else did something stupid and he paid the price seeing people run around that rain, mainly Blake and cutler with their heads through a ladder. That is supremely stupid. Was No reason for that. That is how people get themselves hurt and the reason why that stupid ladder spot have in where through the ladder onto. O'Reilly blindly was because they had their heads in the ladders. They had in their lap matters NFL. Throw that letter off of them at the last second as they went over. Then they would have been decapitated, so you look at it. Anything like this is one that stands out a gift. My kids did it. I look at them. Somebody would be spending a long time. The Room writing I'm an idiot over and over and over again a eight thousand dollars because they can cut were designed really stupid. Because, they did something really stupid. In a spot that look ridiculous by I can't imagine the context of a wrestling match that the really smart thing to do would be to. Entrap myself in a ladder. I shook my head when they put their heads into their. Yeah, I. It's like I can't imagine doing ever arrest match cave. Saying would work really well, if I stuck my head inside this latter, and then being in a position where the only from the land safely was throw that latter off my head, coordinating with another doofus that stupid and throwing it onto my coworker these back term. Hey. It was just the height of bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, Blake in Cutler that aside from these bad decisions with this latter. They earned their paycheck tonight. That's the nicest thing you've you've heard me say about. Teammate earned their paycheck tonight. The interference from Reicher was unfortunately predictable. However, it's necessary in the story for him to interfere I'm glad that he got kicked down. Do not play a role in the ending the way I tweeted this beforehand I was. I said I. Think I basically I said I hope lurking in Bertran has to me either. Old School Billy Joel Bruce Springsteen. Teaming up together can't get more working class hero than that. I hope lurking Birch win. I think that a Riley and in a fish needed to where the best people in for the story. And I was afraid that the gone sons would win. Yeah, I saw that later after I commented on your other post about this match I was like wow, he brought everybody except the guys who ended up winning. Because was totally okay with them winning, but they're, but they're not telling you know. I really WANNA. See working in. Birchwood I like the Prophets. But I really wanted to see working. Bertran and I thought that you know as I said Wednesday. I think that the. I think it would have been cool to see fish. No Riley, get the gold here and then coal in. Cohen Strong Luther matches and then set up this weird dynamic. In the undisputed were like riddle, an strong and Cole had win. Just, one of our many incorrect predictions from Wednesday. Jason's why don't play the stock market. Audible is offering listeners of this podcast. A free edition of Jim is under the black hat, or for that matter any book title of Your Choosing in their vast collection of thousands and thousands of books. If you go to audible dot, com slash, wade or text weighed to five hundred dash five hundred. That's right Jim Ryan under the black cat came out just a couple of weeks ago. Available to you right now for free in his new book. Book he goes into detail I haven't heard before. There's one point pretty early in the book. Where he says I'd call the damn flavors, a steamboat trilogy, and now I was trying to get punch holes to line up in the stupid paper on my stupid desk I wanted to be on the frontlines, not behind a desk. Go check out the new Jim Ross memoir of his time in WWe with some great stories from years and years ago and And more recently. That's under the black hat at audible dot com slash. P W torch. Now it's not just pro wrestling books, and it's not just books. Audible is much more than audiobooks they have podcast guided wellness programs, theatrical performance, alias, comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere else. There are thousands of titles in fact. If you listen everything on audible, you'd be listening for more than three centuries to catch up. Of course you could dial. Dial up your narration speed, and maybe cut it down to a century and a half. Anyway audible helps people get more stories and information through the gift of found time it allows people to listen commuting cooking exercising gardening relaxing at home. A recent study found that twenty seven percent of adults say they haven't read a single book. In the past year up from nineteen percent in two thousand eleven lack of time being the main reason, so why not? To your books and then you, can you tell your friends? How many books you read this year? One of the non wrestling titles I'm listening to right now is catching and kill by Ronan Farrow about the Harvey Weinstein situation and it. It's a fascinating look behind the scenes at power and corruption and denial. Within a news organization and the frustration that he had with NBC News trying to get this story out. It's a well told story. It's fascinating and dot kind of chilling. Also I'm listening to Alfred Hitchcock biography. I've been watching some old Alfred Hitchcock movies in recent weeks as I've had more time at home in less time away from home, and I wanted to learn more about him and the movies he made whatever interests you. audibles got a book that will let you do a deep dive into it or just be entertained an escape so again go to audible dot com slash, Wade, or text weighed to five hundred dash five hundred every month. Members get one credit to pick any title plus to audible originals from a monthly selection and access to Daily News Digest from the New York Times Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post as well as guided. Guided Meditation Programs and that's important for a lot of people right now living in a time right now where there's a lot of unknowns and a lot of routines that have been broken, and it can take up a little bit. Some guided meditation might help. This might be the time to check that out in audible way to do that, so go to audible dot com slash, wade or text way to five hundred dash five hundred. Harley ladder match. Yes I. Did break this correctly. Thank you very much. I thought it was. I was down the take division. Go into the show as much anyone I felt like the Dusty Classic made a mockery of the take division and Viking raiders deciding that they would rather just. Give the titles away then actually like defend them or lose them also just made. Everybody looks like a joke, and so I was. fastly surprised that one match was able to make the entire division credible. I felt like all fourteen came out of this seeming like incredible. Teams real contenders in the division. This was my mash the night and I'm not usually one for gimmick matches, or that matches the things like that, but I thought was really well-worked ladder match. We didn't get a lot of those. Embarrassing spots where the guy standing on the ladder with his fingers on the. Waiting for somebody to show up only. Only like maybe two or three times. At the top close to bouts during the match at all. I had read that all e was on top of the On top of the ladder thirteen seconds before lessner went and got the. I still haven't seen that match by. Employ. It's I mean it's a good match, but then that thing happens, and it's just. It's really fun after that thing happens to look at the audience really fun. That's going to be the best part of it. I finally read the write up of that match Naga. Two weeks of roll on smackdown. Catch up on. But, yes, like you, said the the spot where the Stereo German suplexes with a ladder. Going flying was the scariest part of the match. Otherwise I was pretty much. Okay, with most of what happened here. There's nothing too dangerous I don't think. I loved rikers involvement here if he was, he knew he was going to get involved in some way, there was no way he was. And so I thought that made him look like a beast being of so many people, and then it all led to that crescendo where the other three teams all t dot be living. Heck out of him, and I loved that I thought it was very innocent of that legendary three way match where the revival diy it out to do their finishing moves on AP, because there's just like we hate these guys, so this guy. that. Let's work together to cabinet him. I love that I thought You know I get. I'm not forgotten. Sons Fan. But. This match made me a believer in them. As an act, I fought this slim as the top heels. Indicate Division finally, having finally having real. Team to fill the void left by arguably office. We've had a team since then because dispute era far too beloved sheared. And forgotten sons of one of the only acts as this night showed one the only he'll acts in annexed, who were booked like heels entreated like he'll by the fans is nothing about them. Nothing they do makes you want to cheer them and I. Just, think that's super beneficial to matches like the east. Because when you see them climbing the ladder, we see, wipe you. Come out. You have that feeling of. God's GonNa Win, are they? Yup, it made the property and win all the better because that's who they had to knock down at the end to to finish it off. If, they'd knocked down. Kyle and bobby would have been a little bit more of a mixed reaction I think because people were a little those pointed there. So I love this. I thought this firing. All cylinders me. Mice Stat for this one forgotten sons Abbott as a team. Now have the exact same record as hype Bros. seven wins three losses and one no contest. Hyper do. That well Jess Jinx Janke Romania coke. Archives go over some. They did go over some enhancement talent. There you go. I'd height a whole no I know. Him Kelly I. Know what you like Him Kelly. How was he still existing? Because she's awesome, stuff underutilized the. Criminally underutilized like a obey. You are criminally over utilized but as We. East. Your face is about to be over utilized by fist. Well I am Adam goal the goal the phone. This is why I'm the obeys Baiser? Yeah, right so. So yeah, just an awesome final sequence. It was really a believable finish when the sun's pushed al Larkin Birch and fish Riley off the two. You really bought it at the moment. And then both prop. It's got to do something really cool just. Really Fun. Stuff contrived, absolutely but God. I loved it okay. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with rich. Richmond, a weekly part of the torch, daily cast lineup of shirts, search, Pov, torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast subscribe every Saturday at six PM Eastern. With guests for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related want to hear about the influence of historical figures big kettering. We, got you WANNA? Hear about how crazy marine movies got. Are On it. No topic is too big or too small, so if you WANNA dive in with US Colin live or listen on demand and see the entire pw torch daily cast schedule at POW towards daily CAST DOT COM. So anyway tyler breeze versus velveteen dream. This was kind of a weird backwards match. That got into a fairly decent gear early and then really slowed down seemingly at the time when Tyler took the. Ear Injury when he started bleeding from the ear, and then he had that really bizarre spot in the corner where he dropped kicked the air. And I was like. Is that supposed to illegal selling? Infusion or is something happening and I honestly was sitting there with my heart, my throat like what is wrong with tyler, but then they got to their spots. Even the end wasn't as strong as some of the early stuff. In any way they got there I was. Thinking that this was probably Tyler's lobbyist one on one, but like potentially his longest one on one in all of me at any level. I don't know if that's true for sure, but it could be He was near the top the first time most of. The matches got into the title stuff he was into was three way or even four way. So this might be because I don't know but yeah, this went I thought. Fairly well on another night. You'd probably really tout this one. Fourth or fifth match. v Metz match the night I would say but but decent here nothing wrong with this so breeze and Dream Harley. Lake Emma. I believe like title Breezes Returned Annex T hasn't made him. Reverting back to his old is old characters. The fuzzy boots the blue vest all that. When you debuted or debuted on TV a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't really sure about his luck that night, but this threat. This match it really your I like the look I like that evolution of his character. He's not brand. New Character is still together breezy, still former model I guess but. He's being defaced harder. Breeze is one who's been losing stuff. And his come back and I like that that new look. I thought it really worked for him. And I that this match by the by the midway point I was like. Wow, this is like breezes moxley moment. I don't think I've ever seen him. Wrestle with this intensity. He feel, so he feels. Like he looks free. He looks like he doesn't have that baggage on anymore and he knows he. I can go out here and be I get to wrestle in a meaningful match on a big stage with fan support, and like after years of knock any of that I can imagine what that feels like for him. The Maj itself good dreams agreed character, not a great. Technician, or wherever you know his wadi or whatever, but he can still pull off some really good matches. In moments like this. I don't know this was okay. If all the little disjointed down the stretch, there are certain things at this point in the show is when I started. Get fixated on Moro and. All the forced. We names that they have a moves in the first match Matt. It'll do to sent on he's. More with dream than anybody, but we are starting to seem with more with other people to. There's the vote-on from riddle dream DT instead of. Like when was the? Right it's it's awkward. In the moment, dream DT is awkward and south, just saying it, but also I don't know if it again. It kind of takes of the moment from. It's like. Name your big move new finishing move maybe one or two finishing moves, you can name those, but not every single move. needs to be renamed. And? The doors vdt's standard. It's sitting right there. vdt. You know there was another there was another move tonight to that got a named I'd never heard of before I. WanNa say it's from Adam Cole. And the. Knowledge as to is, he uses like less common names from us. Like when double needs became the media? Sometimes call out the original. Names for them as well like I know that he's always good about calling out Kohl's Geraci, but that's That's some cold does in almost every match. The. Tiger feint kick for a try. Yeah, he does, and that one I can make an argument for the six one nine kind like the the trademark name of. Of Studio doing it, but certain things where it's like. For me I I noticed with with Renault when he would say avalanche whatever and super whatever your. Play does it by another things toe, pay suicide instead of suicide dive. and and and again that's all right, but then, but then we started getting like I said the the the Proton. I guess but Rotan. I know was. Even Proton for a while, but I know it was it was it was the flash finished kicker? The fast finish kick that riddle did and I was like that was called a running a month ago. That never had a name. He just happened to be cash. I'm starting to not remember when these and just buying whatever he says in saying. Okay all to the point. Dot. It's it's totally nineteen eighty-four. The book Orson Welles. Yes, I GOTCHA! Listen well. Not Orson Welles. Thank you say. You did. or well, and you might say Orson Welles. Yeah, it's totally citizen. Kane this whole thing. Yeah I it's just. It's such new speak. Where like that was called a month ago. Was it shut up? Dear? Yes, it was. It's always been called cheerleader tomorrow, and all our dear announcer. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks white deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member, support the way Keller pro wrestling podcasts way Taylor. Progressing Post shows the torch daily casts in the entire team and everything that we do and get a ton of return for your membership by becoming a VIP member go to Torch V., Ip Info Dot Com for full details, thirty plus years of Archives of podcasts. Retro Radio Shows. Over sixteen hundred back issues. Issues of the progressing towards weekly newsletter, a fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the Week Podcast Waco Post shows NCW Torch daily casts and several exclusive VIP podcasts just about every day doesn't of VIP exclusive podcast. You're not hearing because you're not a VIP. Member so GOBI PW TORCH VIP, Info, dot, com subscribe to our VIP podcast feed and listen in a streamlined way with no interruptions to Oliver podcasts again. That's PW torch. VIP INFO DOT COM. Thing. I really have on. This match is goes back to what I've seen on the Wednesday podcast, which is just. because. This match was put together so quickly with such little build. That kind of ruined some of the momentum from points too late when Greece tried to go gin prettier, a couple times finally hit it. Bring kicked out, and then I found myself asking. Is that Tyler's finishing move? Yeah, I don't know what tyler visas finishing move is 'cause. We didn't see him put him down. Put Down Anybody and when he kicked out a thought okay well like. Is. If it's not his finishing move. What is his finishing move like? Where's he go from here? That's the question I'm asking myself because we can get to see him beat in the talent tour. Anybody. Individual package all just about them talking. There wasn't a highlight wheel of breeze. Pick winning matches things that. That's the only thing. Tyler now has an overall annex. T televised record of thirty, wins twenty one law says and one no contest. That is. Imagine. Yeah still better record than coal or gamma though. Yeah I suppose it would be. do we, Kinda I mean we depend to get your thoughts. On this match. You. Guys definitely do not get my thoughts because I like to snatch lot more than you guys did Now it's possible because I am I total mark for dream. It's. That's that's undisputed. total mark for dream that the question is. Is that interfering with my? Is That biasing me unreasonably? I thought that dream the dream matches is that I think in any individual match his. I keep like you guys said he's not the best technical wrestler. He's really good. A. Really good, but not he's not roddy he's not riddle. But his understanding, his grasp of his character is so notch I. don't Care A. he could wrestle lake like Vladimir Kozlov. And I'd buy his act. One hundred percent I wouldn't care because. He does everything perfectly. I, but the problem is is that. There's no variety you know exactly how it's going. He's going to be over arrogant over arrogant over arrogance could almost cost them the match time and time again, and then maybe he'll win. Maybe will I mean he's got to takeover wins in a row and that's a record for him I think. Probably. Is I think you only had one yearly? He's got I think four. No actually no, he's got three takeover. Wins in a row as he won the title off Gargano. I hear to takeover wins before he beat Gargano yet. he three hit ono out. That's where I've got EC three yet. KNOWS JUST E C three and auto. Yeah, my mom, so. Freeze on a roll I love watching the guy in the rent I love watching a Dick. Doesn't get old because he finds a way to freshen it up, but it's like every every match you know. He's going to steal his opponents. Move, you know he's GonNa. He's GonNa. Attempt legendary move in this case the tombstone piledriver. you know he's GonNa. Come out dress like whatever whatever is currently in the movie theaters. last time it was Freddie Mercury. Mercury less time. Remember now I forget what it was this time it was. Elton John. it's all brilliant stuff it's it's repetitive, and it's brilliance I guess which is fine, but I i. like this match a lot I. Just love the way it was put together. I couldn't help but root for tyler breeze because he felt that he was, he felt that he was just swimming in kicked in quicksand, the whole way trying to get traction against dream and I think that dream in the context of the short dill that they had. I think that that this match actually lived exactly. What the? What the? But the promotional material was in that dream was proving that he was a better burris than brees. All the stuff that the old breeze would have done and the new breeze wasn't doing. A hit and I thought he did. A great job of looking exasperated, just kind of like he's looking at Imola. His old self. Going like can't believe I used to be like this. Relief felt like that a couple of times. I really dug that, and of course we haven't made mention of the final moment. I predicted the dual selfie when he was trying to get back his phone, but I still totally ate it up when they did it. Oh, it was awesome and that that to me was such a callback to ouster blacking dream. It was such a call back to that where? where? It respect batch in at the end of it. The you know, the winner showed respect to the loser. You can't have dream. Shake hands with somebody, but now new stuff like this, and he's always gotta have the last word. So that that's enough for me. I'm a huge tree mark. This guy could this guy could Ladimir Kozlov against a broom and I'd like the match. Searching for more great, pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell host him to three weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media, members, plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry, subscribing to stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at POW, boom dot com once again. That's PW. Dot Com. So from there. We went to eighty and priests. Promo this is formerly known as punishment Martinez. This is the name he's going to be going forward with. And we talked a little bit about that name Change Awhile back, and how both are a little bit old timey Carney, but I don't know. We'll probably accepted in short time. Ninety S Marvel Superhero. Of allaster black. So He We'll see how they do that. We'll see how they present him I. Think they're gonNA. Keep going. Keep the darkness but I don't know if they're gonNA go dark hair. What they're gonNa do, but it seems like they are building a much needed singles. He'll. So yeah it's. It's nice that we're going to get this. And where do they go from here I? Don't know but I feel like they have not. Often if at all done a Vignette for a new wrestler at a takeover, and now this isn't a new wrestler had done a job on TV, but but yeah I. We've. We've seen a little of him but I. Don't know if there's anything to say about that. Promo anything. You guys want to add about that Promo are shall I go on? I thought. Face! Long pack here and. You know what I forgot or be like. They renamed a Damian priests. I? Seen what? Like punishment Martinez now went on the Internet. I double checked. It is punishment. Martinez I'm so smart I recognized. Or who I've seen like once. I'm sure everybody else knew this, but you know. I don't I don't read the dirt sheets right? Just right for them. Aright Yoshua reiver's is. Shane Obeys Ler. Yeah some some good wrestling here, too, and as you were talking about Harley. Only, so many heels get. Purely the right kind of reaction and Sheena. Continues to get the proper. He'll reaction in front of just about every crowd she faces regardless of a mixed are totally positive response for her opponent. She's still usually treated properly as the he'll because she's such a jerk all the time. We saw marina jasmine like we thought we would. We saw candidates like we thought we would and for me. These extracurriculars gripping I loved what happened here. I questioned it when after he lost she. She came in and just. She attacked. A help essentially a help Shayna who didn't know she was there, and then did her move, but then I thought that the added bit with the chair and candice like Oh God. What am I doing here? Handing her the chair I am very psyched to see how they frame it now because this. If they wanted to be, they could do a double turn here I don't think they will, but they have all kinds of options on the table here as a match itself. I think Justin said before the show went about twelve minutes so decent. Wink, nothing crazy. But yes, it was. Ill versus Shayna and Justin, go ahead. I thought this was solid match Basil one is expected I I like the way the interference was done from shaffer and do. Extinct to have two matches in in in this night where you had any outside interference forgotten sons and this one. You had to expect in both of them Shapiro and do Kevin History of coming into bays whereas matches. I love the way. Will Ray came in I actually almost expected a he'll turn from Kansas Little Ray, because she was so overly nice, and she was put into this. No, where I was like. What's the purpose? She has something separate going on, but I really expected A. he'll turn it some points in this to. Ohio I'll help you out tonight. Don't worry I've got your back. It's like. I've got your back all right with a knife. And, there wasn't but I love the way she cannot because she was so hot hot hot with that. Kendo stick, and then there was this little part worship fears like wrangling Lorraine. Lorraine's like this like this this. is trying to catch a greased pig, and he's swinging this candlestick and beat in whalen away on Duke as your fears holding her. It was just a really cool thing. Fun and I and I like that it paid absolutely zero role in the finish. That basil or had an yet another clean win. Right winner. The one disappointment like you said they didn't like the same. This is no return. You cannot turn bays. Where because as you pointed out as I said my right up. Getting pure, he'll he you cannot earn. It would be impossible to turn her at this point. Yeah, and even if it was possible, I would not suggested I. Just found the specifics of this extracurricular interesting. Generally yeah, I agree. One hundred percent with what you said. I picked ill in this match specifically because I was like if she loses them, what is she like I? There was three different matches I was wrong early. Yeah well right where I said they can't lose. Because then what do they have and I thought that about a few different acts here and with ill, I was most worried because she's not established enough character wise other than being a buddy. On a singles tonight, St Yeah Oh God she hasn't. But But. After she did the extracurriculars and walked out of there after this total insane moment of violence I was like. Oh, now that's who she is now. That's what she has, and I'm not worried that she is walking away here just like with absolutely nowhere to go, so I have no idea what they're going to do with her now, but I'm already interested to see what that is. Hardly. What did you think of the only thing I wanted to say? There's real quick as the disappoint from those extracurriculars. Is that now? I believe we're going to see continuation of this and not move onto me a Yemen baiser. Yeah and I wondered where this left me as well because if as lesser going over, we all thought that was GONNA win. We're, GONNA end up bitch. On Yeah I suppose they could do that. Yeah. We take the title up Beasley without having her beat. have. You subscribed to the EP W torch daily Caspian it's a free daily podcast with shows throughout the week, dedicated to ring of honor, all elite wrestling impact, wrestling major league, wrestling and X. T and Emma may talk for pro wrestling fans that's Monday through Friday, and on Saturdays, checkout the deep dive with Rich Fan where he examines a single topic, in-depth and then Sunday. Nights wrestling night in America with Greg Parks, you can listen live or download the show later at pw torch, daily cast dot com. Just click on the livestream link he takes. Takes your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or preview, and shows that are right around the corner and on Sundays when W W, B runs pay per views. He's live right after the pay per view at POW, Torch daily Dot Com reviewing the show and taking your calls, that's the POW torch daily castle up, just search pw torch in Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your wrestling podcasts, or visit our homepage to download or stream the shows or find out more information, pw torch, daily cast dot com. Go ahead early. Yeah Any of this really I'm so waiting CEO try that. I know from stardom and so. Kelly how you felt after that first Kushida match? That's how I'm feeling now still. Is like Oh this isn't you know there's a little bit of her in there, but she's wrestling slower than I. Remember she's kind of just. Doing like three moon salts in one match sort of thing, she has a broader range than that. Why is she being held back in this way? Especially somebody that she's familiar with. Before so it's not like. He's herself because it's somebody new. They've never worked together before her base or have a history so i. don't really I. Don't know I. Don't really get it, and then there's all sorts of. Ships for. In K. FEHB for all her character for all her. Being a jerk, and being lazy and her, in terms of like having outside interference, and so on and so forth. She's very smart. She's been shown to be very intelligent character. So when on Wednesday's show canceled in front of the cameras I have you back? How did basically? Plan for that Lake Win. When just? computering side I expected compliments in a match for us to cut backstage to see just marina, just beating the tar out of candidates in the locker room knowing she's going to try to get involved on US behalf. We were GONNA. Take out ahead of time so. When the him walking down the ramp, and then she jumps them from behind, and they're all surprise. I was like how you. How are you surprised? She announced this couple of days ago. And I don't know I I love you obviously so maybe I'm biased, but. I'm trying to be objective and I think being objective. The bazars rain is still. Getting a little repetitive, it's entering Oscar. Tear or Tori at this point, and also now I have this fear that. Were We might not get a satisfying payoff because. For? All, these possibilities for where things go from here baiser who she defense against next, and for all we know show show up next Wednesday on TV and just vacate the title. I'm vive without losing just like Oscar. Raiders. With. Oscar onboard because she had the. There's only one way to go up undefeated and that was it. With the others really bugged me and it seems Blake Vince or whoever's carrying less and less about what gets changed down there. And if And with every time they just vacate the titles. It hurts the titles, because if the wrestler don't care about them as much as everything else, then, why should we? Want to care about. because. This is the only w e show written as well as it is so. So there you go. The post-match saves things a little for me. I like the the murkiness of where we're not sure what that was. Nigel is asking the he'll turn. He's, but then he's kind of like a heel commentator right so when he says what a terrible show of sportsmanship! We're supposed to. Kiss like disagree with him. I guess it's not it's not really clear. And when canvas is hesitant to hinder the air, we know Kansas Baby. She's a one of the peers beer faces. They have so again. It's a little bit murky and I liked that ambiguity. The fans champion. You deserve it clearly there. They've chosen Asai. This thing. But then it was still that issue of. If! This was simply a matter it. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be murky. Supposed to be baiser getting her come up ends after the match for being such dash. He'll, but then she didn't do anything particularly despicable in this match to warrant. That response, the only thing she did was having arena adjustment. Try to interfere ended in succeed if she had stolen the match. The you know a handful of tights, she had like even an couch or something, but essentially she'd be yoga. Put this mission on. She tapped out. So that's what made us. Attack looked, so he'll ish because she didn't get beat by. He'll be and he'll. She got beat by he'll. On essentially wrestling face, yeah! Kansas was there to question and to be like I, don't know about. That's the idea I guess is it used a twitter? And that's the. She always played and start him her fashion Queens quest have always been. Very much kind of right in the middle where the only cheat, but they're also. They're not baby faces. They're very egotistical vary. Arrogance and quick to ramp up the violence. ARGUABLY UNNECESSARILY! So I like that and I don't know where he goes here I mean initial thought was shrine based or in a street fight at takeover. TORONTO, but is Kansas involved in some way. Be a being. Bianca put her into contender ship. I don't know I, guess. Maybe that'll be settled over the next. Month and a half on TV right if it's something as simple as. We book a three way between them or something like that in the winter. That one gets the title shot in Toronto. Hopefully they're still champion. Come August, and it hasn't vacated the title for. Some reason or show shown up on raw. while. There's this different story going on an extreme. Speaking of August we did get the news that we are going to get another annex. T takeover UK. and. In Cardiff, so that was interesting, also interesting that it's August thirty first and they dropped their first. Commercial for it, that's that's a while, but but I'm on board for that and I will try to start catching up. I'm almost always. Four episodes behind every time I look that's almost exactly how far I am behind, but but I'll get there and. Yeah. It's not on the level of our INEX- show yet although the wrestling is very very strong. And, I still recommend it. If you got the time in your life, I don't but I still watch it, so went to the main event Johnny Gargano Versus Adam Cole. Hall Man Oh man Oh. Man I've for me. I actually prefer this to the first one I know that folks would fight me for that. Probably I assume I. Haven't looked at any of the real time. Responses or anything like that I. Don't really normally do twitter during major shows. But I like this just because it removes the inevitability of the first two false, which always go, he'll face. And so it was purely just I, knew this was going to be ridiculous, because the first minute and a half what they did and the way they started doing point counterpoint. I knew that it was going to be not only a great match, but my kind of match, and then we did a little bit of Sports Entertainment, late and Cole One. Not Super Clean because of all the stuff he had done one in more helix fashion I would have liked a more hewish crowd, but you're going to get what you get with the undisputed era, and there's no point in. Bitch about it because it's what we're going to see and. Anna cool final moment. We thought a lot of things might happen here if he won and everybody else didn't, but they all stood there strong together Bobby fish arm in a sling again. So if you feel like getting worried about some, there's some to worry about but yes, coal goes over, and as we thought I was really torn on this one. Because I know, there's money in the chase and my wife even was saying to me. She sitting next to me, she's like well. Johnny can't lose already. Kenny and I said he can. because his moneys in the chase, it's always been, and that's how his character works. It was the same thing Sammy was as face, and he had the Sammy's anes special rain. He had a two month reign one at takeover finally, and then immediately lost it too well in this case. The same person, which is now what Sami did but whatever? So. Cold over Gargano in a classic Harley. Tell you, I go to Justin. Embarrassed okeydokey Justin. I really liked match. It lacks the intensity of riddle strong, but it was also almost exactly twice as long on. I'M NOT GONNA ask you guys to wrestle at that real strong pace for thirty two thirty three minutes. That would just be crazy and cruel and unfair to ask them. But I I knew that you know looking at the clock and I knew that looking at the. Looking at the pacing. You could tell that they were that you were going to get A. On hard matching. He delivered the in ring. Psychology here was outstanding. Adam Cole did some great stuff here, He. He's one of those people that normally I. Don't think you know. Normally I didn't think this one is thirty. Oh, he's playing mind games. camp. It's all stuff we've seen before. If you watch if you watch wrestling for more than three months, Adam Cole doesn't do anything he had ever seen before. In terms of his mind games, and is one of those things where in the context of a professional wrestling match you be like. Why would anybody fall for that? Right, that's stuff always happens. Professional wrestling matches. It's like you know why. Let Yourself get distracted by the heels. Buddy on the ringside on the Apron. Right why you know they're not gonNA. Come in, and they get you win by disqualification, so who cares? But in this case, the thing that Adam Cole did with the you know pretending chain call in. You know the rest of undisputed era, and then they don't come in, and he uses that as a distraction. When I thought that was so smart, so unique very fun. I like seeing it stuff like that. Put a smile on my face. I thought that Adam Cole was GONNA lose here? I thought that that was the story that they wanted to tell was. You know. Again like I said earlier. You know I. I was at the story. Being told here was that. O'Reilly in fish. WE'RE GONNA have golden and strong, and Co weren't and the story that they told that Adam Cole had golden. Nobody else did reestablishing himself as the leader of undisputed era. Yeah I mean this is what you would think they'd do. At the outset of a heel faction they never made him look like the winner, and he had a very brief reign with the North American title which we thought like it's a title that we asked them to introduce for for him, and and that's what happened a very short run with that before he ended up jobbing it out. But. Yeah, this was. My feeling as this went on was we've seen every Adam Cole except the Adam Cole at the very top of exte- like. Everything else and this now I'm very very interested to see and see if his. If how irritating he is can kick into an even higher gear. I. Can I believe in them so so? I'm interested to see where this goes. Is he going to bully the rest of speedier because he's got a championship and they don't. It opens up a lot of great storyline. Possibilities I never considered because I just assumed he was GONNA lose. Riddle is the obvious storyline next move here. Months. From now. It seems early, but at the same time if they really want really want to establish riddle. Early on making a winner right away. Maybe you pull the trigger right away and you don't have it over Yeah, I mean I think I think by the time. Takeover Toronto occurs I think riddle will have been extinct for almost a year. Is, it really that long? Yeah TV that Long Island. Easily tracked so easily. Think think of how think of how many matches he had just skins caches. Oh No! You know what I blocked all of that out. It was it was all fine, but it was. It was overlong, but I forgot. That's how they kind of had riddle take his time. Before he. Buzzed through the entire, he'll roster. Like we were worried about with Kushida because he's RTP. Three of the only name guys. Those matches must have had those matches happened before William Regal disappeared forever. Because he because owner was doing that whining about shiny. John was. Merry how saying earlier about how dream? I was saying I think saying this someone feels like dream has his promos by person that nobody else uses. Shiny new toys is a great example. That cash Zona was saying shiny new toys at the exact same time that Connors Zane, Joseph, connors on T K was saying shiny new toys exact same phrasing. Look you know you. Can't you guys get a dictionary or if the source? Oh well. Carly did you figure out? Your words. No, it was just a new is going to have differing opinions too, and so thought you'd go. Let you. Go I i. knew when you through that you were not as high on this and and to hell with you Harley, but she but I can. Go! First Things First Wikipedia says riddle was shown in the audience last August takeover and debuted on the Halloween edition of TV, and that sounds right now. I think of it. I remember it was like a special holiday when he was there. If you'd like to hear this show without ads and plugs interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a POW torch. Member, you got about a dozen other podcast throughout the week that I host that our VIP exclusive, and you'll get the weight color shows and podcast during the week with the ads and plugs removed all on a separate feed exclusively for VIP members plus tons of other podcasts that are exclusive to our full archives of podcast, dating back to two thousand four, which includes post pay per view roundtables dating back to two thousand, four also access to our full archives, thousands of podcasts over fifteen hundred back issues of progress. Progress Progressing Torch weekly newsletter that started at all at score website more checkup full details at CW, torch. VIP INFO DOT COM. That's W. torture. VIP Info Dot Com to get full details and then jump our sign up. It's mobile friendly desktop friendly in two minutes. You can be a VIP member. She'll support for us and we'll give you a lot of return including a streamlined listening experience on your iphone or android device with the ADS and plus removes go check it out. CW torture the IP INFO dot com. But Yeah this events. I. Don't know every Gargano mashes the same. That's generally how I feel. Now I've seen so many of him in annex. T so many title matches of him in any esteem, how so many takeover main events of him? They said he's the best on fourteen out of the twenty five takeovers and affiliate each one is just like it goes twenty to thirty minutes or longer. There's a lot of no spelling kicking out a big moves. A lot of super kicks and things like that. And match did have a large large number of super cakes. Joke on May joke about on twitter, I, said if this annex tease. Fear that they're gonNA lose the independent wrestling fans. Then all these super kicks are exactly how you retain the the independent wrestling fans. I mean people complain about guys like Joey Ryan and orange. Cassidy. Killing the business and destroying the credibility of wrestling, but honestly like for me, nothing ruins my suspension of disbelief more than Gargano kicking out of a Panama Sunrise on the floor. Having already vessels for twenty minutes like moments where I go. Oh, that's not know how that's not credible. It doesn't make me think that he's like this. Fighting Championships makes it maybe like all right. It's fake because nobody knew right might be able to kick out the after twenty minutes of having already happened, and that's my other issue with him. It was a lot of these. This W E style of matches wears just and we've seen. It was seen so many times just. The story, the matches kicking out a big moves over and over there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when someone like Johnny Chan and when he can't because I feel like in the past I've seen him lose matches after punishment than this, but in this match she took way more punishment, and he's still kicking and I don't. I don't know. That's the big show main event thing that's all over the world right now. Though so I guess that's why I mean annex matches go longer, so maybe that's why we notice more because I certainly thought that as well with all the kick outs but God. It feels like. No matter what show I'm watching if it's a major major show. Kicking out of things they would never kick out of on the weekly show. Yeah. I, just wish there was more than I guess if I was watching one of those other shows that probably complain about it then, too, so it's it's not a shot at tripolis johnny or atom in particular. It's just I wish there's no. Way To tell that story. You know trade some of those kick outs for his foot under the vokes or he's too close. Devote his momentum carrying him out of the ring by Pure luck. Things like that find different ways to make those near falls. More believable because all the kickout. May It seem make it less leave ball for me? But overall I'm happy with the with the outcome I think it's interesting. My big thing go in the reason I had called cold. who was because I didn't know. Johnny would defend against if he won with this, so many baby faces and next year now with call the top. You've got a handful of different people who could step up. You've got middle as the obvious one. The pre show sets up to Moscow Champa as being the ultimate baby face. Go after whoever champion whenever he comes back I. It's not GonNa be a two months, but whenever he comes back, I don't know if they're willing to. I don't know. What do you know the the timeline for Tampa returning not? They've done such a good job of kind of fake and people out with that by saying, long recoveries are inevitable. But what we know about this one is that it is going to probably be a long recovery so next searchers. A tough one, but. Yeah I. Don't Know How long you're willing to let them have the title but Johnny Champa. Best friends again so channel coming back to take the title off the Guy who took it off, Johnny. That's a perfect storyline their. Coal can sneak out. And that was the first time tonight that I was like. Oh, I'm pretty sure I got this one wrong. A was when when champ was going off coming up with. Explanations for why Johnny might not be focussed enough. Janis had both singles titles in Annex T, N he's had them for like a total of Nice sixty days. It's not much. It's it is on much, but. But he's a chaser. That's what that's what he does so. Now I don't know A. Way title you said. You'd mental pedal so so so. Coal so johnny. He's Johnny's head. All every title, right, yeah! I yeah he was the first. Triple Crown, winner and Adam now. When when was limits coal a? When he replied when. Asked wish yeah, it's right. Defended it. Yeah. O'Reilly May defended it and. Does see it night. We came out here we did. We worked like two matches and came out with the take ribs or something. And when they won the tournament that they didn't enter. Yep. Yep. It I mean. The thing with Gargano is, it's very clear. Cases baseless title. She's bigger than them. Okay. She is she's not. She's not a big person, but Fees Person. She's yes I I stood next to her. She is not a giant nine just. visit just everyone else in the women's divisions even shorter. Yes, it is. Not Not Jasmine Duke. She's very Jesuit Jasmine. Jasmine is up. Here is like six hundred next to her, but but yeah Shane is. Not Huge, but But yeah a lot of them art, and then you put her next to somebody like Kansas. Who's truly tiny that you know? He's GonNa look the monster they wanted. And she is like she obviously works monster. So whatever they do is working. So she doesn't light. Definitely not. Well I. Ask my last. I know you're hey. If we're wrapping up the show, I think Yeah, yeah, we are there. twenty-five, takeovers. Nineteen of those have featured the NFC. Championship defended in the main event. Then we've had to with wargames in the main event. To non title matches the main event both featuring. Johnny Gargano Overseas to Moscow Champa. One with the titles defended the main event also again champion match. That was two years ago. And one out of twenty five takeovers, featuring the women's title in the main event, and that was three and a half years ago. Balian. Sachet, yeah, and so. Put pointed point to only four out of the twenty five takeovers have had to women's matches. So for everything that he's doing, that's great, and it's a lot to do in a lot of really good stuff within the wwe sort of formula and the WB template. I don't know there's still some work to be done there for sure that we can. Get almost count that we're going to get four men's matches, only one women's match, and that it's always gonna be the team men's title in the main event instead of the women's or the tag titles or anything else and I think people ask like well. What are you gonNa bump and I think we don't bump anything. There's time a these matches all go very very long like you can't tell me that you can't wedge in another eight minute match and a little bit of pomp and circumstance like there's nothing I I don't I certainly do not have any gripe against these. Brilliantly paced five matches in the in takeover, but the early takeovers like the first four or five, there were ones with like seven or eight matches and people who are just. Relatively new or just haven't thought about it for a long time. Probably don't know that I'd forgotten until I. Put together a spreadsheet, but there were ones with seven and a eight matches in them, so it happened. But it was also slightly different annex t than. was. What what you do, is you stop taping? Two or three dark matches. Before or annex T to show on the next one's deck. That's we stopped doing, and then you make takeover a truth three to three and a half. Hour that. We don't. What We don't actually know what's on it next week. Sometimes we do, but I I remember them saying. They didn't ask anything. Got Imagine Kushida in some capacity. Maybe a lien. or Maybe Damian priest. Maybe along. But do they do them on that one when they can't I duNno. Seems safer taping. You only person to make their takeover debut tonight with Steve Color Right. That is everybody. Else's best on takeover. Did the prophets. Now. This was the first takeover. Really Looking. At didn't Even set it the even they even made a point of saying that. This was the street province I imagine. They said it's Blake says biking. Cutler's first match and they said well Blake's been here before when he was with Murphy. But they they made a point of saying it was the forgotten sons as a teams for takeover and Ostra profits for state over. Their Young Profits it's it's weird to think about when you just consider booking. But yeah. I, that was something. I always noticed that they had never been on a takeover. FOR ANGELA AUTHORITES yeah. 'cause doctrines a long time. He's been annexed Tijuana longer than anybody. He has the worst singles record in t history, no wins and thirteen losses, and also has the worst tae team record in history with his former partner Sore Fulton, they were no wins and seven losses a team all right. So Sawyer Fulton. County, his stars, he met Montas Foreign. He should be counting. Stars as soon annexed today. Because I don't think he brings that much that team. Every Sunday night, catch wrestling night in America on PW torch. Daily cast dot com hosted by me. Pw Columnist Greg Parks each week I'll welcome co host from torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM Eastern. Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at the conclusion of that paper view, you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit PW TORCH DAILY CAST DOT COM. Click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show link search pw torch. Apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday pw torch daily cast dot com. I think that they work because of their total clash. Like Jim, Neidhart, as a singles wrestler never would have caught fire. He did have a lot of charisma I guess. But he was, he was a perfect complement to Brett. Like he would have had an okay career on his own a great career. Because that pairing was just it worked so well for him and I kind of feel that way about Angelo on a smaller scale. but we just don't I don't know. So many stops and starts with them. I'm very interesting. I'm as interested to see their title reign as I am Kohl's. Because I don't know what they're gonNA do with them, and I don't know that it will be a long reign because they did a lot of jobs. Let's see who they put them who they're willing to put profits over because they did some jobs and they've done some quick jobs on TV. Sound list over division. So depleted yeah. Everybody in that everybody not division right now. Has Been defined as a jobber. Up until this match. Yeah this night this night definitely helped so Yeah, so a little bit of mixed bag from us I love the show. Me and it was easily my favorite, but when want you're going to do so? I am killer whales. You can find me all over spooky milk. Nope, you can find me all over social media at spooky milk. That's what you can do. Yeah! I've got I got a game coming out later this year and and you can. Find out how to order that on my various places, Justin. I'm just Jamesy can find me at twitter at in. Underscore 'em underscore James Harley. I'm on the twitter at talking on her and on the torch toward nineteen live coverage of our waged state of the art at Portland, Oregon Seventeen years reach has been company never been to Portland Oregon, but they're going they're. All right well, we will see on Wednesday with the usual. Strangely dragging when you're. Post takeover shows and then what should be very very interesting. Taping jeers everyone. If you are looking for our usual Thursday flagship. We did a two days early. Great Parks pros towards columnists host of wrestling night in America. Join me for the flagship this weekend. We spent the bulk of the show actually on a single, but divided into four parts. If that makes sense, we looked at the men's champions on raw smackdown. Aws compared to them. Predicted, how long they be champion! Discuss the pros and cons of long or short title rains looked at the lay of the land for their challenges, and also who'd be best to replace each to the champions, and I encourage you to check that show out if you haven't yet. That was on Tuesday, and then we answered some questions speaking of L. Bag. If you enjoyed Todd Martin analysis of annex, T don't miss out on hearing. Todd Martin and I discussed professional wrestling every week for roughly three hours every Thursday. We record the fix with Todd Martin. It's a centerpiece feature torch VIP membership, including our discussion on current events. Reviews of all the major TV shows we also talk about. Or Bella tour MMA in general, and we answer mailbag questions usually the mailbag last an hour to an hour and a half, and some of the best questions and thanks to todd, some of the best most thorough answers on such a wide range of topics, current and historical. 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WKPWP - Keller interviews Jake Roberts & DDP: (9-17-15) The making of new Resurrection of Jake the Snake Roberts documentary, live calls

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

1:56:10 hr | 2 months ago

WKPWP - Keller interviews Jake Roberts & DDP: (9-17-15) The making of new Resurrection of Jake the Snake Roberts documentary, live calls

"We're now on patriotic. That's right. You can support us and get benefits at patron dot com slash P W torch VIP. That's Patriot. Dot Com slash P W torch. VIP We have three tiers, four dollars, ninety nine cents, six dollars and ninety nine cents and nine dollars and ninety nine cents. The first here gives you all the way Keller progressing podcasts and post shows and the People Torch Day the casts with the ads and plugs removed that. Membership Tier also includes the VIP after shows that on occasion we put on extended versions for VIP members at the Keller Shows and daily casts and it's compatible with the apple podcast APP and any other third party podcast APP out there or you can stream the show directly from your patriotic APP or the patron website, or you can upgrade to tier two for two extra dollars a month and add the Wade Keller Hotline to the Mexa daily podcast. Just, for VIP members who supports or you can upgrade to tier three and get all the way weekend podcast and post shows and daily cast with ads plugs removed and the VP after shows and the hotlines plus all the other VIP exclusive podcasts and a pdf and all text version of the weekly pro. Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter and a twenty years ago. Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter every week full details on how to support US and get. So much in return with three different tiered options at Patriotair Dot com slash pw torch the Ip you can still support us directly on our website and get the full VIP benefits for nine hundred, nine a month by going to w torch dot com slash go VIP that has not changed. This is just an additional option for those of you who are familiar with in like supporting creators on Patriot that's patriotic. Dot Com slash P, W torch VIP. Now pw torture spreaker bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for this week's interview Classic Wade killer interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers Five years ago, Jay. Robertson DDP Diamond, Dallas page, join me to discuss the making and release of the resurrection of Jake Roberts Jake Roberts, of course. Now, manager of Lance Archer on eighty w dynamite back on national cable television. This interview goes into his struggle to get himself back on his feet and aimed in a direction to be productive and contribute to pro wrestling. Again, after a lot of struggles with drugs over the years and the the whole journey was filmed by Dallas. Page in his house when he brought Jake Robertson Scott Hall into his home and filmed their their journey to get better and and try to recover from things that had really been holding the back and setting them in wrong direction. So we have over an hour and a half of conversation with Jake in DP along with live callers. Enjoy this flashback to these September seventeenth two, thousand, fifteen edition of the torch life gas my live interview with Jake and EDP. Here we go. Welcome to the P W torch live cast I am wait Keller editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since nineteen, eighty seven and also host this the w torch live cast on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have moved to start time of show choose five PM Eastern this fall season at the half hour sooner than it used to be and so make note of that. Started on Tuesday when she's tall on these. Tabs with Jason and also of course, I am editor of P W. Torch Dot COM MMA dot com. The is Thursday. September seventeenth two, thousand fifteen. This is interview Thursday and our guest today scheduled to be Jake Snake Roberts and it is so good. Have you back on the show Jake. I had a chance to watch the resurrection of Jake the Snake Roberts last. Last weekend and I enjoyed it so much. I did a thirty minute review of it for VIP members on Saturday night talking about it. You have to do a little bit of talking or at first for sure. Give you plenty of time but I wanNA tell you that you've been on this show during the time that you're a deep since you've moved in with. DDP. Process and It was so cool to put like know what the kitchen looks like. You know what I mean like know what the Caribbean It put pictures to the words that you so eloquently spoken on this show and at your -NIFICANT and I've said this at the time magnificent fame speech. Wrestlemainia a year and a half ago too. So it's great to have you on the show. My first question for you is, how does it feel to know that this story that you've been for? The better part of three years. I think there are proud of this chapter in your life with a few things in there that are covered in the documentary fumes. How excited are you that you get to share this story? This journey was so many people. I don't know the. Right right. Time Watch. Yeah I. Mean I don't like being made when I was like that. you know maybe some people get just take it with a grain of salt, but I can't man. It still stings. It still feels on key. Reason I'm on is just fact Melbourne is going to help so many people you know and. That's that's what this whole thing's supposed to be about. Anyway, you know as far as. I mean. I don't know why you go ahead and. Drunk in a junkie but okay. Give tickets away our brand new car I'm all for it. You know I it's to help other people you know and. I think that it does that I think it gets people's attention I. Think you'll wakes up people say, Hey, you know. A buddy of mine that I should've way whenever I just wrote them off. Natural Real, big saying. That was a message about. Not Give it up somebody you know I mean if you just put aside I'd be dead by now you know so. Whose responsibility is it? Well. I feel like it's responsibility of people would know them you know and Whether it'd be a family member doesn FBI a family member may be a friend. You know I mean we've all been out with that guy winds up getting too much aiming. Embarrassing US embarrassing him. He's sobered up for a member maybe would but. We all know that Guy Yup and Those guys Or Girls. And if you're just too busy. PUT IT on your schedule everybody sucks. Because that means your help another human being and that means you know good. I think most of US fall. And Jake I. Think you know you pointed it out? I mean it's got to be I assume you've watched the finished product of the documentary. Young. A couple of times couple of times and and I think it is. We're saying because when I say are you excited? You know you're right maybe that's the wrong choice of words. This is not. You, put yourself out there and you put yourself out there in a way that I've never done publicly. So I I don't know what that would be like to have some of my lowest mobile frame many people have I. Really don't think many people have managed up your pants show up you know and I attacked me times even when I was mashed. So yeah. But I've always done that even before this movie back when I was wwe w ninety, six, ninety, three I. talked about by drug probably talk about alcoholism I didn't i. You know it's much. So amazing is that you know they just dug up this aged wrestler at the daily thousand years old over Syria or something, and they found out that he was actually the virtual is. Not Me. I. You know the thing that I mean I've got a lot of questions and topics don't talk about. But one thing you did in that documentary and it was an emotional rollercoaster I mean I wouldn't say it was exhausting because. Diamond Dallas pay domino's face can be exhausting sometimes but in a good way right? Jake. Yes but her on restored. Yes. But I tell you what you crack me up and there were a couple of times that you that I think when People Watch this documentary, they haven't yet and by the way Jake, the snake we dot com is where you go to find out local listings and where you can watch trailers for this Jake, the snake movie. now don't hang up now jake and all that I plugged it. No, I'm kidding. You to me. In the documentary one time when you offer urine. Jarve Year in a couple of urine tests. As soon as they arrived I thought that was just hilarious. People can see the context of it. It's funny and the other time was when you stepped on the scale. And you did not look the number so you got. Moving scale. When you waiter? Down those scales pissed me off. But the way you jumped off of it when you weighed yourself again and up that that was great. So. There's this. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Continue. Thanking me break. Yes. We're all doing stupid here to go up. DP We're talking to Jake right now in the so we're good I gotta hang up on you 'cause I don't want to make jake wait anymore deer hanging on your TV just call it myself and to make sure things are good. Shake to get in line. In Two thousand twelve and exte- transitioned into developmental system, and ultimately the you see today on the torch VIP podcast annex t eight years back we'll be taking a weekly look at this page and exceeds early history. Join. Kelly wells and me Tom style from WT talks next week every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track teas rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for W. Torture VIP members One thing in the documentary and it's funny because people's reaction those who have seen the so far is they were bracing for this possibly feel more like a story about how much DDP. Helped you and it was. Part of what I wanted to know more of is, what do you attribute specifically that DDP did that helped you have so many good days in a row and getting to the point where wwe is Chris Jericho said wwe trusted you to be there at the hall of fame sober and give that speech what what specific d do that so many others and and and. Treatment Center for Naval to. Move. Centres. Do. You know when you go to treatment centre. Get real real a moment. Treatment Centre they take you in there and you're in a cocoon your keep all the bad guys away from you. You know and You GotTa do is class that class they'll your got here sort of time to maybe he did maybe alive. So what and then after four months they tap yellow back until you sign relate. Yeah okay. Now I go outside and guess he's waiting. ex-wife number one. Caller next life number two. Oh, there's a bill collector Oh my God there's my. Oh Shit. Oh it represents my car come on. Give me a break. All, this stuff is waiting on you. Nobody gets you ready for that. Nobody gets up and takes care of that bill. You know. So. Immediately after you leave the cocoon. Of. Feel good smile and just one day one. Step at a time, he'll come on. You're so right back in the crap. And Everybody's. GotTa wait to see what you do what you do. Personally. you what to do you run with yourself to the next thing you know you've read my back to what you used to. Because there is no. Team they're waiting on. You know the art there is somebody can reach out to look. Thing your exercise I'm going to jail. Look. You know. What we Dallas he says look to come stay with me. I'm GonNa feed you the best on the planet. That's that's that's an OBE right here. And I'm wondering to help you take care of your obligations. Until, we get the same rock and roll in right. That was real big. That was real big. I don't know pressure outside. Even before I've been to Rehab. You still get the mail man you still realize you live your house, your car you're going to jail whatever. Get that damn place. 'cause they don't care. Well, that was good. Enough to seven or okay do. On your. Basically your. Bank. You know. And And he teaches he taught me how to control money. 'cause I never had his former wife. I never had set up a plan. My plan was to get through tomorrow. You know any Tommy stakes. So I learned new where you live. Success Pay Your taxes which I never done for fourteen years. I just said screw man I want to die. And all of a sudden I'm I'm actually doing the right thing. Learning to do the right thing. Here's a book for you. To respect. Your obligations. Getting line that's different way of life. And I had to lead foot I. Probably for the first year now. and. You know because my thing was man I got a little money in my pocket I. Go by Somebody Super Nice because it helped you know. He's like you gotta save that money because you got this bill coming up next week to can't just do that. But she was part of me in my instant gratification idea. You know. Me Feel good now Don't wait for the big poplar is a big bog down the road man and show basically teaching me how little. I didn't know. Where I was on the road. Man. Stepping in another another plate for grab. On the road my ex wives to Charlotte money to care the bills to care all that stuff. I haven't paid a bill all my life. I just made the money. Just the money. I'm never held on the money my life I don't own the billfold. My Still My daughter tastes the money. Because Jake. Roberts. Not the best kind of world to. Save money not based on world to be. On top of that, because I I poured around so many different directions. You know, and there's some of US people in the world at. My job should be doing my job. Entertaining. changer, my children and grandchildren. My job. There's a lot there. That give that to somebody else to take care of my taxes and do my taxes because I'm not good at. Lying what you're good at and what you're. Say Chart. GonNa, give them to somebody who knows what the hell they're doing. Not just sleep under the table and say. Zest. Well, that's wrong and that's what I did before. It all good on the outside. But what she dug in a little bit, your shit he's got some problems here. And you can't live like that. So out to. Be Right now did right. I'm good. I'm good at it. Really. GonNa. Not, myself I. Can't allow my taxes on my obligation to math? And I'm saving money on happy hour like the guy in the mirror, which was the biggest thing for me. Was Liking this guy in the mirror because I You know I was still ashamed. All my problems were were saying based on. because. People. Drugs that excrete like being. We really think sucks, but we don't have to get out of. How to get out of it because I world is a very small. So. I I've never I've been to several jails several. We have never met anybody in either places that you know where Jay why was y'all? I wanted to grow up. Drunk. You. You did. But what happens to US love watching the movie Al People. Come away, with a sincere feelings. For Life. and. That's how. Maybe of something else who Can deal. With. Light memo. About the pain of addiction, it'd destroy just one man and destroyed just. And everything around family and destroys the workplace. But? It really really you. He is I add Diane Him and Die Name Matt is the real ring of honor world champion and you know how show everyone that I did it by tuning into the podcast of Ottawa Tyler and my personal main man, right? This is Ryan and I'm tyler and we are the host of the wildly popular POW towards VIP show podcast of honor. Our show covers everything reminder on a wrestling from analysis show recaps in wide ranging interviews with the stars of Fremont download the podcast of honor each week and support the best podcast on the POW torch VIP. Network. I think one of the. One of the real touching things on the documentary too and you brought up your daughter is that your kids you know talked about? Feeling like they were communicating as adults with their dad. Consistently for the first time, maybe in their adult lives and That had to be. Such a rewarding thing has that continued in in some form or fashion, and that just has to be enrolled adman yeah. Yeah we're. We're my family's hooking up real sweet right now. We have plans you know for not only for today, but we have plans for next year. So, there are moments already set up, knows your kids will stone and nobody messed up? I go work someplace else the more time but ain't but just right here. So I changed my life. Hey remember what? They were watching my diction. And right there. and. you know that's not much. Because I. realized. That's the thing that you fall back on when you need to be loved. And If you're not falling back on that, you're not really have much good life man because. My siblings embracing again and Invite me to their home to have them want me to hold the grandkids and play with them. I had my it's time. Nineteen. My fourth child. Sit In my lap. because. That's something I. never allow I never allowed for my daughter's to sit in my lap. I always afraid. That Evil Gene, my father carried my somehow get into my body. And I would wind up touching my child. And I'd never wanted. At, all you know that was part of the reason I ran from. Uh. Relationship's. GonNa. Wind up like my father you know touching girls and now. Christ die. Yeah Well if you're just joining us in progress here, this is the POW torch live cast. I'm Wade Keller on interview Thursday September Seventeenth. Two Thousand Fifteen and Jake, the snake. Roberts is my guest. We're talking about the documentary, the resurrection of Jake. The Snake Roberts you can get a preview of that movie and check local listings at Jake the snake movie Dot Com I had a chance to watch over the weekend I wrote a review of it in this week's torch newsletter and at a thirty minute audio of it for VIP members on the way Keller Hotline on Saturday night I recommend the movie It is fascinating. It is funny. It is heartbreaking. It's inspirational. It's it's a lot of things and especially for our regular life cast listeners the last few years who have jake on the shoulder for and Scott Spend Scott Hall who was Unfamiliar Week Spend hours with US talking about what what DDP and Jake meant to him and and that whole experience and of course, DP himself who was on a few weeks back talking about this and sometimes over the last few years i. it's really cool like I said to put pictures to the words that you guys said So I hope everybody eventually gets a chance to see this whether it's a or. Yeah. Look Jake let's go to phone calls. If you're willing, we got some people on hold who WanNa talk and we'll see what the A. Few minutes minimal at to get out of your guys. All right. Let's go to a VIP member Scott. Scott, welcome to the program please state your name and what you've got for Jake. Jake just want to say how inspiring listening to you. Happy with the progress you're making with their life and just sounds very inspiring and I'm happy for you. I'm. Jay Can I just start you made the very first time. I ever saw you I remember you made big more which was Russell me to versus George Wells. I was GONNA. Happen. I just remember the way that match was. That match played out. It was amazing. Just the heel persona and everything you did especially at the end of that naturally you put on and he had. is now. Allie alka Seltzer out. Jake was amazing like guy asks questions about a couple of questions about your career. Go ahead open I remember. The first one is, I. Don't believe eighties other eighty six. There was talking about you fusing Hogan and I know that there's been a story that you had beat him on the set of the steak. and. Tell me a little more insight on that. Well after was is the people started chanting DDT as to the Holcombe coke. I remember Hor-. Because is they can't td events. Never happened. Never, have and he just turned and walked away. And I'm thinking well. Why is it a bad pain well in the real world. something go merchandising, and that's where the money's May started. How many are arena? I know it seems ridiculous because. Many people are maybe He's Nice. They the next page all the bill. Now when I mean, we wrestle twice the same. Thing thinking back at his poverty island in Montreal and both of them. So. Away. People getting up matter the fact they were showing Jason Snake. CAN DD to That Knicks Program. So. Thank you fans. Knew. Scott. I'll. Ours is one of the up and it's okay. You did some great talking. We're we're when people ask me talking World Class Championship wrestling and I just WanNa know Jake I know you worked with Chris. Avenues Gino. Vernanda as down intact and. In that time world class and all that you did world-class. I was disgusting for me You know what was going on man was just not right. You know they were. They were taking advantage of three kids didn't really know which way was up. Of Money Boise. Reading his resume. Not, bless a man, you know, carry the such a sweetheart didn't mean his body man but People take advantage of people man and everybody that went through there. I was glad to say that I didn't stay law I couldn't take it back and it was just that depressing for me. To Watch those kids manipulated like that and Just wrong you know watching them one one day after another man was just got. Believe that because I don't WanNa they. Totally understand Jake. I. Really. Appreciate your time. Just like I said, I've been enjoying your career since the mid eighties and. Way, thanks for giving me the opportunity with Jake and one sign off and I'll be listening. Couple years couple of months from now you can by what books. So there you. I'll be buying the book. I can't wait to see the documentary Wayne Thiebaud such a great. Great. Breakdown West. Talk Martin talk about it. I just can't wait to see it. Thanks. How many there Steve Austin podcast, 'cause I killed it on that too so Yeah Well Jake thank you so much for your time. Thank you. My life by. This if that can just shake last name when you came WCW and ninety two, I know you were you started the going like to me you were the first big name I jumped WWF CW. Looking back at that time. What you did was staying with some awesome work and just one. Get for all the great memories you give me watching wrestling and I'm just so happy to hear you're making such progress where your life and you know all these things going onto. and. I appreciate everything. Thanks away. Great. Scott. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on. Pw Torch. Daily Cast Dot Com hosted by me PW torch columnist. Greg. Parks each week I'll welcome a CO host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling to your calls and emails. You can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view we go on. The air at the conclusion of that pay per view you can listen live. But of course, the full show is available for download on-demand anytime shortly after it airs visit Torch Daily Cast Dot Com and click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show link search pw torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast. APP. To subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday pw torch daily cast, DOT COM. Let's go swiftly. Next Air Code Six, one, six, six, one, six. Thanks for holding. You're on with Jake Roberts state your name and the city you're calling from. This is air from grand rapids Michigan Jake Echo with the first baller said the car before me just said. You I'm glad you're getting your life back on track. A question when when the Englewood in your wf days when you did the earth quake when he when he supposedly splash debut, what was the net zero? Isn't that bad steph. H will make this will make you extremely happy man knows of snaking. was in the. Sixty pounds of hamburger meat stuff. That way with. The budget rule that was actually you Michael into old face. Out. Tied the Road School I. Don't really care. How. He wrote somewhat you raped my wife. From you know that's what I thought and it was. The right white with my way as usual and the blood. Kind of made the whole thing. All, right. Thank. You. Thank you. Great. Story all right story. That seventy eight seventy please state your name calling from you're on with Jake, Roberts. In. Brooklyn Mike. As. City. What's up. Yeah Brooklyn New York I'm waiting I'm waiting patiently while I'm more look forward tonight to check out that wretched and jake the snake Roberts who all he's one of my favorite advocate. going. And always say you WanNa Peice my and best talkers ever because you never had the yes and. One of the most brilliant modern wrestling Jake. By. What you think is the biggest problem with you know with today's presentation because they need you resume wwe's slightly out. Well, guess what they waited too long. I go back to embark a new. Mom. BRAND NEW START OUT It's going to go back to the old school ways and thoughts. Presentations. Can say to. involved. lavatory irksome balls are seeing Douglas is. Coming dreamers involved. Going to be coaching. Guys. Along. To be awesome awesome stuff man and I, can't wait to be able to talk about it. More wreckage saying puppy sits much. But now wwe is when all that ship to come in and then you gotta go back to You Know Stop Aching, ever maximum twelve coastlines and free. Up the top broke some floor, they're not my. Man You know whatever happened actually cheating it amounts God what to be disqualified these days. And I'm sorry I use a sledgehammer and you get up with the business. leaving. Jake is the Steve Austin has talked a lot about the DDT being used as a transition. Now, as you say, the clothesline over and over and not selling I so with you on the and I, believe it can the thing that I don't think wrestling fans who have only grown up watching wrestling less ten fifteen years understand. How much better the product is when there's some restraint and you build to the big spots and they will get it. Yeah. They will get it as soon as somebody has. To, go out and do it but I'm just at the guy. I I really fighting some more lip page right now I need to get off your brother. I'm so sorry, we can do this again please accept my rg but this as. About a short hair today I've got A. Real soon and Believe it or not. Jake, Roberts wrestle free time since last weekend paying for it. Now Man I'm sorry to hear that I appreciate your time. Absolutely everything. We will talk later on again. Absolutely. Thank you, Jake. We'll have you absolutely. You're definitely provided you better. Sorry to hear that about Jake, we do we are going to hear from Dallas pages going to call in the show now. Because Jake wasn't able to be with us for the full hour as was the plan because of the hip pain. I WANNA BRING DP on because I talked to him a handful two weeks ago about this in August and I had not seen the documentary yet, and after watching it I have some questions for DP. They're easy questions but I definitely have some questions for him and so I'm I'm GonNa see if he actually called already let me look here on the switchboard. Well he'll be calling? Momentarily. To join the show and Talk to us a little bit more about the documentary in some very specific questions. I have that I think actually will. Add to the experience when people have a chance to actually. Watch the documentary you are on hold for Jacob. We didn't get to you I apologize for that. Obviously Jake does to. Jay Graciously said, he'll come back on when he's not battling some severe pain and so obviously, we totally understand that. I do want to note if you are not a VIP member I recommend you VIP because one of the things you get when you go VIP is access to our previous long-form interviews which AAC Roberts and Scott Hall and. They just have been tremendous guests on this program and we have the full versions including VIP after shows with them. That absolutely are worth going to our people. You Torch Live casts interview section and listening to because Jason Scott wanted to so much more detail. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell hosting three weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom hot gas features long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribing team stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly PW BOOM DOT COM. Once again, that's PW booed dot. com. Go ahead and shouted EDP. Jake heavily early said he's going through some severe pain today and just was struggling to stay with us. So I appreciate you hopping on the show here. No worries man I'll tell you that he's actually doing what he's been doing weight and that is first of all. There's nobody. We've had a more tattered pass and Jake, and he will you know from not chilling up in bookings back to back in the day when he was know wasn't on the right path and he will not only jake maybe if you call these guys, you can try it. I know. I wouldn't do it either like maybe they'll understand that you've got this the thing now you gotta lift surgery. and he's like dude I'm not gonNA miss a booking and credited for him but. When I say that. Works once or twice on the weekend he goes on A. Date. And, between because he's doing these comedy things everywhere though these. These are unspoken words he calls from the you know we always comedy clubs and now and the movie schedule after you got a chance to see the movie schedule that we have it's it's insane our Dallas two days in Tampa than Philly yonkers then New York Manhattan. He's got a Baltimore and over that period. We gotta wake up in the morning and do pr and get those shows three or four PR things. Then chill out you know and then go to the QNA then drive. An hour two hours, three hours next style wrestling again, and you know I wanNA choke him out because he actually had three bookings where he was booked to wrestle and with his hip shot, he still did it. He's a monster pain and. Check out but it was only because he you know he did that spot. So Hey. So we haven't talked since you saw the movie I know. And now we are. Now we're GONNA talk. I. Have to ask you a question. Why did you not promote DDP Yoga more? That's what everybody's wondering. This is not a documentary about Diogo and everybody was bracing for that and I actually think you went too far in the other direction Dallas. Unit promote yourself enough. You know and I know I. One of the most. The strongest one of these strong. On the planet next to, of course. Got Course Donald Trump. Who is the master of the by? You know really I you know and we got so many amazing reviews and I would say a third of them start out saying this could have turned into an infomercial about and they put it over about DT's. Thumbnail Stages D.. But is not anything. Like that was I just one, it was like when we put the Arthur. Video. Up there able veteran you know and when I first saw it, you know and. Steve You who's the one who we we had done this this. Video, originally me Arthur and his son who literally you know was the editor on everything and just you know trying to tell you should probably have in there and the and the The video was actually really good over a couple of years ago. Close I think a little over two hundred thousand hits. And Steed would say the same director who did. resurrection say would say to me you know someday I'm GonNa. I'M GONNA. Change that I would I wanna make that video better. And when he made. When he made it I looked like latitude it's it's amazing yoke but. You don't have DP Yoga in they're all. And he said, okay, here's your choices. You're not do whatever you want me to do. You know your stop you tell me. He said you can. Put Didi Yoga in there. And a lot of people will see it. and. You know like you've already that you got get hundreds of thousands of hits I used to have wired you work not communist he said. But it'll never go really viable. And he said you have two choices one. You can make it a little infomercial. Or are you can inspire people your call? This is so strong. Did I go? Let's inspire people and if you look on it. There's apartment says he talks about a Yogi L. There was only one Yogi in I. Don't consider myself a yoga I do, but I don't and I told you call me a Yogi here. and. He said I want you to think about this. And and and and Steve US like my spock. Thank. Captain James T kirk. and. He's a lot likes box. I just want you to know. That Yoga we'll take all the credit for this. And it's going to end up on every Yoga Persons Wall in America. I said all right. Let's do it. But I was I was more. You know blown away by how fast it took off. You know read. Like reading is the cream of the crown of the Internet for what's hot and what's not. Yeah it just it is what it is. You know that's that is an. Today nirj room world as far as I'm concerned guys were nerds in high school and college. Where the strongest people in the world. So now they become like the goal would thing you know so He's told I was just at a I went down to pick up my buddy mining victor webster who's an actor it looks like frigging Superman six four just chiseled and really great guy and. I met him doing this movie. I'm doing cold Goblin secrets and we just clicked it off. But at the same time, he told me what your throat. Says, Ajay my back was blown out and you really save me I'm still legit soon and forty two. Still I'm still fight all time and it really healthy. I worked with Josh Barnett. The Josh Titan. A bunch of shows on TV and stuff in He he was like. This this workout and changed my life and made it so that I can do this stuff I want to do my forties I couldn't do before. And Right. Now, I just forgot what the hell. was appointed that story. I. Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts will come join me Alan for L.. Paradise. Torch VIP as we on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and chose from around the world be at the US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for restaurants passed in the Paradise to, and we've done fun historical shows such as the we love our series celebrating glorious career of Jewish thunder like our I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about. A classic bent that they were in attendance for we variety and you can expect lots of at the pro rests. Paradise. Detailed Peter. Torch VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available Pierre Torch and VIP Info Dot Com, and yes all VIP pass are compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices, or you can stream them directly from Ad Free? VIP Mobile. Site see you in paradise. By talking about. Not Promoting DP Yoga, in the in the documentary in how you even redid the Arthur video kind of the launching point for it all. Yeah. Okay I gotTa, say wait right now you know the DVD Yoga Performance Center just opened and I've been working around the clock to get ready for a big party we're having on Saturday and I'm really filming all my videos because I don't want to have wire g anymore. You know we've gone we've gone past that I don't want to confuse people with brand. So they re doing everything and we got energy workout and fat burner diamond cutter knowledge like energy. To point out. Yeah. So it's like that workout, but it's different and everybody who's the workouts for all people who are young people are transformation like in one one workout I had one guys lost three hundred pounds and fifteen and a half months you went from five Ken to to ten names jared in fifteen and a half months the total for those people working out with meet with seven hundred and two powers but people and the one I just did this. Was Four hundred and ninety eight, thousand, four faithful. I'm talking about four people and two girls to guys. So you're just been working for my brings little fried back to the original question. You did ask me why didn't I promote as much? Is the same thing as with the Arthur video now I know where I was going up. Is that I want inspire people, I want inspire people to believe that anything's possible as opposed to all the people who try to rip them down and tell them what they can't do you know i. think that story about Jenkins Scott is I haven't told you this Josh Brolin Yo Joshua's right after Yup. I mean strong. He's one of my favorite actors been so many really cool movies. From American gangster on out and. He he got the see early screen like you did. With, a friend of ours who did bigger stronger faster? Did you ever see that? Is Chris. it's a great movie but Josh had. Written him. And he said, I just watched the dock and I am in stunned silence. And then he put me over I'm not going to say what he wrote in there but it was really strong and he said, thank you so much fraternity onto that a great story of hope. And love and real compassion. And That that's. What not to come out of it you know there's I mean I you know be both. People. On that see me on that wall or are. Allowable. Unless I'm at the hall of fame. You know I'm dressed up Jake my wife out I'm where does he the oldest shirt? Ninety percent of the time to come up and say Oh my God I'm doing program or all man I heard about that. You know. So just I am and I got like ten different times now. But I didn't when it came to this movie, it was more important for me. You Know The resurrection state was just got. You know I, my goal was for him to be able to walk away from the business with his head held high and Jake. In I'm CH- ensuring might even looted it to you, but he's been offered an opportunity. That is pretty amazing like not not pretty. It's really amazing. It's an opportunity key nab bar would have been offered three or two years ago. He did bring onto the wrestling project and said, he thought he said too much but he didn't say much. I. Don't know don't. Wait till everything is there and. It's just it's something that because we like I don't know could be so exhausted right now. But I don't know if you could pick up there's a clarity. When he talks now, that wasn't there. An. and. God. Well, as you say, we saw that with Scott Hall in the documentary in the scene where he was slain back in bed. There was a clarity to Scott Hall that nobody had ever seen before. During that time that he was in the House with you and you're right that's a good word for clarity to the thought in the articulation of those thoughts with Jake and Scott that exhibits what has been mask or damaged or hidden by chemical abuse drug abuse for so long it is it kind of gives you chills watching it because he's our guys who are larger than life on TV and then you either hear the show like this or you see them in the documentary obviously and you're like, wow, there's that person. Behind there's that genius behind the character and I'm probably overstating the were genius over overdone but Scott Jake are both so so highly regarded for the wrestling binds, but there's always that caveat but they're assholes or but they were jerk this time to me or but he was wasted this time. There's always those butts in. It's so nice to see them in context where there's not Yeah. But you know and that was really cool and it's nice. That's what I wanted to jump in when you brought that up about Jake. You know there's a couple of moments that. Really choked me up that movie you know. And it doesn't matter how times see. Because it's so real. And there's a spot where. Scott says. Thank you dally. For cut jobs. So pray dead. Oh, my God. Thank you for re introducing me to. Myself. Yes. That's historical drive met Scott. He didn't drink or anything. When I when I when I created the Diamond Stud now with him brainstorming but his whole look and everything and he just gave me back then he gave me the lanes. Okay. Dally you know you think it's going to work call do it he didn't WanNa Shave as he did not want to shave that mustache you probably Fifteen you know he did not want to shave that thing you know and I say die your hair. showed up with this mousy brown hair and I'm like started. Chick. Bleach my hair out he was thinking, check it out I'm like you're right over the heart. and. But when he what he did when he cut the mustache, he got a five o'clock shadow with two in the afternoon. Strong by example, and I was like, wow, dude. No one's going to recognize you and freaked him out. Because you know, you know what you look like but then all of a sudden, you change your Harry Mustache, you still see you. You know but. Other people don't. And so no one when I fought him to center stage WCW back in nineteen. Ninety. One. You know here's this guy with I got a cavalry chief pat he's. Got The loafers with. Socks on high top in this wall like Lamm. Code I had down about those mid calf and these black sunglasses and he thought I was ribbon. Because that's what the boys do. You know the rhythm keeping that Jacket Shit. And I'm like you do not take those sunglasses off do not take that jacket off and like nobody recognize him. So then how Shared this a long time ago with you So now we're at the sunglasses off reading something in the cafeteria. And he's can't believe her, but he's just looking over to me people. Are Looking walking by. Okay. This is this is freaking me out. He goes know I wrote with last time I was here for six months I rode with Tommy Rich Key will recognize me. And I said Hey Tommy. You know the diamond studded, right? You will. He's eating so short. And Scott the debt slow turn all. And he just pause it's Of those those is you know meet said you don't fucking know me. And fucking comedy got spared. Looking at looking to. Scotty. I wouldn't say how to film it was. It was an awesome moment. That's. Now, through Patriot, you can get the Wade. Keller pro wrestling Poe shows Wade Keller progressing podcast, and the POW Torch daily casts with the ads and plugs removed and VIP after shows by supporting us on patron with tier one membership for just four dollars ninety nine cents per month you can also upgrade to get additional bonus content including all the VIP podcasts and the people you torch newsletters through patron checkout details that patriotic dot com slash P, W, torch VIP that's Patriae on Dot com slash pw Torch V. AP Don't knows Eric Bischoff talked about that. When he got all I'll in disguise for unravel at one time and and he said he walked around backstage and it was just one of the most fun experiences of his life being able to be this like crotchety alter ego of himself. Old Guy who would go on on mask later he's like nobody knew it was him and it was so fun. It's not exactly the same story because this isn't quite the same disguise. Remarkable, but yeah to be able to kind of mess with people who know you is pretty funny. Go to jumped. Controllers. Let me let me. I want to ask you a couple questions about the documentary very specifically. Okay The What is there going to be a DVD? That's an extended version or outtakes because one thing and I I love this I recommend it. I went on record with it on multiple audio shows and on my editorial in the newsletter this week absolutely recommend movie I don't think that the things that I thought were missing I would put in and if I had to take anything out if that makes sense. I just wanted to try longer but is, are there going to be fun? outtakes or more examples of of Jake and Scott just hanging out at the house like you know little little things that maybe had a got laid on the cutting room floor. Oh God that way when I tell you this, you'll. You'll appreciate this saying at. Steve You could make that. Ninety three minutes and it's a dock, it can't be over ninety three minutes ever ninety nine after ninety minutes you're pushing it up and And I and I just couldn't believe how he put it all together. Because if you have told me, he made it in nine hours I would've went. Okay I hope we got everything. You know and There's so many things. There's so many like for one was up there, but it's down now but that phone call Scott Hall yet when the whole thing on there But. That's go forget all the videos like that and all the different fun stuff that we did Things like here's what I'm really looking forward to I'm looking forward to watching the movie. With me and Steve. And Jake and Scott Doing Common Katie overweight they were the movie. Yes. Like what was going through your head there especially when they had to eat together, that's going to be interesting. Yeah Hell because. You could see Jacobs really hurt and Scott just fucking with them. You know which Diane doing, you know that's one of his new. Yes. And you know he was just playing in fucking but yo- which I really found interesting to both guys as big tough guys as they are they and got. Out there very sensitive. Both of them you know both of the guys very sensitive in. Both very loving too which is you would never expect that but they both really they both really are which is. A pretty. Amazing that. They would shed their skin like that. You know and I told like like like Kevin Match. Up. You know he's One of my closest friends forever but starting him actually you know closer because everything they've been through and when we put that video up originally he was mad as hell. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You don't even know what I'm doing. Why are you so mad and you know We. Don't like we don't. A temper. Right now, he also there's there's nobody that that that tried to help stop more than he did. No. Point is is when cab gets upset about something. Eric Bischoff, talked about it. Sean Walton talked about seeing. It happened when when thought that? BISCHOFF wrong. Sean I know there's I know stories off. Or if you if you if you cross one of Kevin's friends. Or Him he really he's at one of the doesn't take a passively. He stands up for for them. So I could. Come, into Scots Defense going you know daily what are you doing? That but you know he should have trusted you. Yeah. That was my whole day. And and So long story short was. If here's the best example I can give you. If Jake Rob if this, if we never if all think live in the house. If. All we did was. Your goal that light and Jake. Go. Starting to go through changes. And nobody. Saw It. Do, you think he would have any opportunity today. No. No because you're right because people. They, believe no. But they they would net and you gotta remember who these two guys are everybody had given up like. I don't WanNa say gave up thirty degrees. The Ken gave up. On People. He bought a shoot. We had it for Scott's funeral. He was just so bob. No they. He couldn't. It wasn't. He could nells. These wasn't ready yet and you know if I was married at the time. No like I am now I don't know I. Don't think it would work because you know you know when you get married your lady, it's her house. I mean as much as it was your outside our house. You know and not having any woman at the time living with me. You know and buying that house what is happening and then showing walkman making that. At message to me, twitter you know. Like that was that was surreal. and. You know what? I'm telling you that I called Scotty over that ten year period. Twenty Times if I call them once. You've never pick up the phone. He never called me back so that one might. He answers the phone. You know and when you and I told you we. Should've fan cab and all that I took it down. And I knew Scott was going to get there. He was supposed to come in the next week. It took six weeks before he came. A lot of other conversations happened on the way and when he got there I said I want to show you this. And not. Got Sixty thousand years. And I WANNA say a Steve. But. The thing. I don't have fifty thousand hits how long time was that? Like a day right day and a half. When you got sixty, they couldn't win who knows where where the wax. But I told the Dow because I was like dude it's I'm trying you don't know what I'm trying to do yet. You know. So don't let me run a past Scott person was sort like the time when I came to cats. And I said Hey Dude I. I'm sticking his place. I'M OUTTA here WCW I. I have this idea. You know you asked me to be the N. WWL and. Scotty and just expected me to say, yes and goes through. You know what you want me now number six. Number three or four five. So the whole idea where I told Kevin, you know we re embrace and Scott goes finding me diamond cutter and take off down backdrop broke. He's like Hotel Scott Hotel Scott. I'm telling you. And I'm telling Eric Scott. He's like come on he wants to help you know you remember what you did for him. You know get a job with his wife was pregnant. Blah Blah Blah nobody would hire him. And like dude I gotta ask them first so. In retrospect I knew I had once Kevin Reacting. I. Knew I had to ask Scott. Saudi goes I don't remember any of that. He said how many hits and when I think Scott holding nothing about pets back that he had him in Jake both came to my crib with a slip phone. Aloha torch faithful. This is Kelly wells of WT talks and x t every. Thursday you can hear me and my gang of idiots Tom. Style. Share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap or need limbered. A rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in annexed team. Live on USA network search, beat torture, and apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire pw torch daily cast schedule at. Torch daily past. Dot Com. Cheers. Oh Wisconsin. Deep when it was on this show a couple years back it was the day he signed up for twitter and or I think it was like earlier that day he had signed up for twitter and he was just fascinated like for an hour and a half or two hours. He's on the show giving us a lot more time than probably anybody on the show. In terms of injuries and he's like he's a man it was like we it's like handing a cat like a shiny ball. You know about that shooting laser lights out of it. He was just like this is this is cool. I got to figure this thing out. Yeah. It's like you you kind of brought them into the technology of two, thousand, fifteen or twenty. Twenty thirteen and you know I said that like shoes twenty twelve when window in jk men and twenty thirteen Scott came in. And I said that on an interview and you know how some people on the Internet you know it's not everybody. It's a small handful of people who were the most negative people. I have ever I they must hate themselves. That, people can be so negative because what I said was you know we're going to bring these guys didn't I talked about it about them into you know this generation another and I own the night pat and going on the Internet in one of these people you know Road Oh, my God listen to he's GonNa. He's GonNa, change their lives by showing them what the Internet is watch e thinking. Well, let me tell you what happened out of that. A little thing called into Gogo. And when Jake blue shoulder out. And had no money man. I think everything you know and when it came to shoulder operation, we figured it'd be about nine thousand bucks eight or nine thousand bucks and you've seen in the movie and. We put it out there and like sleep Jake Jake doesn't WANNA. Ask anything from anybody I said, well, Jake it's not like you're. Asking for help as far as asking people to give you. You're going give him pictures you do not. Anyway they love to get a phone call. They'd love to get t shirt all stuff you already do you don't think someone else go phone with Jake Snake Roberts and deputy opening he they want to help you out I don't know how many people are really going to do that really care I feel it's GonNa be pretty strong but a really don't now. And you see it in the movie. That the first twelve hours. Seven thousand dollars comes. And it's Not Jake like back. Because you know he said it. You know it's like. You know wow, you know I, I. Guess what I actually did mean something. So for the person who thought. Dating Jake and Scott Bob in the Internet was. Going to do anything. It's the most ignorant comment you ever could have made. Well, let's hope you give them any more time because you've made your case in your right I, mean I in Dallas I think one of the great things about twitter in in the in the context of wrestling is that x wrestlers who were used to the spotlight who are used to that connection with crowds that adulation the respect people looking up to them when that when that core gets cut and they get cut by wwe or The Andy Bookings aren't there anymore whatever the story is I think that was pretty harsh for a lot of guys and and I think now because of twitter there isn't that disconnect. You actually get to stay in touch with people and choose your level of involvement. You can be really involved or not very involved with it. But if you do get really involved, you have people who remind you of what you meant to them and the memories that you gave them and you can actually develop. Whatever the term for twitter friendships is. It's not the same thing as real life but you know relationships where you get to know people and you share common interests and I just think it's great for guys who have spent years if not decades being connected to fans having a way to do that without having it to be a convention, they travel to once a year. And I agree you know like when when it happens Scott? I mean it totally blew him. He was. Blowing. When he was going. down. So it it really did it showed how much do people really care now a Lotta people may not have that same experience but these two guys. I mean I can't tell you how many times I was managing Scott. You know and I just started wrestling I had a lot of viewpoints on what I thought was the way it should have gone. Scott will always come back. Go Dally it's just ripping. And I can't I bet you I called in five different times when I started to really. Get involved in years in starting to get over you know. And I would call them up and go good. Just bring something up like you said this a while ago you're right I just I guess followed. You were right. I bet you did it five different dot because when it came to the business, you know and me and Scott were both huge marks for Jake as far as working for almost everything else and then Scott you know because I, don't think it'd be where the got like the big push right away. I don't think he ever would have been as good as he was, but because it really took a while for Scott to get over. You know and it didn't happen after diamond stunned. He probably wrestled six seven years. I remember how old is he came in the worst possible spot you can come in in the Awa he came in after Hulk Hogan left and these in Ganja I don't camera explicitly said it or not but he was certainly Scott was positioned. And I don't even know the time line if it was the next week or a few months later, but it was like forget whole Kokin we got big Scott Hall. Magnum Scott. Hall they kind of talked the refer to mess with the mustache. Scotches wasn't ready for that at that point and you know it's whole. Scott wasn't gonNA be the next incredible Hulk Hogan coming by tiger. Scott's charisma was different and as you said, twenty minutes ago, you saw in him, what was special about him and how to direct it in a way that matched his charisma and his personality. I was a little kid at the Saint Paul Civic Center after Scott. Hall wrestled and I was in Awa. Early. And I ran up to Scott. Hall after his match because they didn't have the big gates or the big fence keeping fans away from wrestlers and Awa. So after his match like ran up to him, it's like a twelve thirteen whatever it was and I patted him on the on the on the short arm. That's huge. Scott you're the next cogan Scott. You're the next Cogan and I don't even know twelve or thirteen year old. I necessarily believed that but I was hoping. Was a home team thing but Scott needed more time to get there and I thought it was really cool in the documentary Dallas went Scott said. Dallas is one of my best friends, but people don't know that because even though we've always been tight behind the scenes and really influential in each other they you guys didn't do a lot on camera with each other and it is there are friendships that don't necessarily manifest in storylines and Scott, and you is one of those really good friendships. Yeah. And that's how I would tell Bishop I said, you want everything reality base you know when to send you. Should I'm the only one that has a real relationship with both those guys I mean, that's why they're here. And there you know he he didn't really see either at that point you know and it took when I finally came up with the end of your idea you know it took Scott you know. Kevin pitched the idea I wasn't going to pitch it. You know 'cause I know that maybe I'm not going to do that. Can you want the idea you tell them about my waist? One or the other. and. When he pitched in Eric you know he's still didn't jump on it. You know. I don't know you know and. It's got said you know everybody knows you guys boys like your best friend? If being your. One of your best friends is not a positive I. Don't know if I want to work. Wow. Okay. That's great. Thanks brother. US and then and then, and then he came around you know. He came around. You know having Eric never really saw me as the top guy. You know until I made it to that spot He's told me as a creative guy. Because, I came up with so many ideas. There's so many other people. You know just try to help storylines and stop it. I used to argue with him about what the WBZ dealing now and and for a long time they at one wrestlemainia. They knew or some of their stuff was going into wrestle. The next Wrestlemainia, right that now got towards, you know when we were going head to head with them, it was more of a lightning rod and they're just making up stuff as they went along just like leave. You know. But you know that NWEA. All Angle. You know that you know the way Bischoff bit it. Now, I, don't care if you like him or hate him you know Eric Bischoff is Doug. Genius. Unprofessional wrestling I I ever. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with Richmond a weekly part of the torch daily cast. Lineup Pictures Search Pov torch an apple podcast or your podcast axis. Subscribe every Saturday at six PM eastern I dive in with guests for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related. Want to hear about the influence of historical figures like big. Cat. Ernie. ladd. We got you WanNa hear about how crazy marine movies got we are on it. No topic is too big or too small. So if you want to dive in with this Colin live or listen on demand and the entire PW torch daily cast schedule at PW TORCH DAILY CASPER DOT COM. Please, said more critical things of Eric than just about anybody out there. But I've also absolutely given him more credit for the things. The enormous amount of things he deserves credit for also you know 'cause I mean he's just any in the position I'm in any top figure is going to get talked about a lot and there's things you know things that I've been critical of Eric four but absolutely, and I told him this when I've interviewed him I said, know you don't read all my stuff everything say but I bet there's nobody if you added up everything positive. Set about you by anybody I, bet nobody's giving you more credit for for the contributions and the ambition in the big big ideas in the the the the ballsy execution of what he did at that time I mean it was in him and it just needed to manifest in it manifested as Nitro But Anyway Dallas documentary. One thing that I was curious about and I know somewhat but I don't know a lot and I think people watching we'll wonder this who are all the other people in the crib like when they show Jay coming out on raw. Like. I said I'm very literal. Every documentary watch if I could have dates put on everything I do that I. Love I love order I love things being put in place and I know that's not how you tell documentaries. I get the creative license of that. But I I was left wondering will viewer of the documentary and I'm curious if Steve put into this to wonder what is the context you've got jake and then you invited Scott but who are all these other people hanging out there and I don't know that that was ever explained It wasn't because it would have been too convoluted. So. What. Are. You know I'll. I'll give you. I'll give you another answer and then I'll come back to answer your question Eventually I'M GONNA. Have my own reality show. Yeah and I know that I've just been waiting for the DVD performance that are. The come together because the crew that I have. Eighty, five percent of them. Crew. That was at the correct. they're entertaining is how they worked their ass off. Think if it was the you've made you may never see duck dynasty, but once commercials but you understand the background is to it's a company with a bunch of guys will work together in a family you know and they have little escapades they go through because they're entertaining. and. They changed reality TV and I feel I I didn't watch a lot but I've watched enough to know what they did and I thought it was obviously very well. Connected into a lot of America. What we do. is we've got the youngest kid here is twenty, three on the oldest is made fifty nine. My wife's in the Middle Fifty. We've got about three different women who worked here like like the one woman who see occasionally is lend up and London used to be a you know just gorgeous bartender for me thirty five years ago, and she's like my sister she's one of my closest spreads as a matter of fact, my two daughters are hers and when their sperm donor left their original sperm donor left wing Kimmy. Was One and a half and Brittany was just about to turn A. Had No dad. So twenty years ago I stepped bid as their dad, and that's where you'll see rick knee occasionally around there in the movie Linda She's not just she became. A bookkeeper and head of our finance and all that she became like. Mother. I mean. She would make sure we spat and now taking. Brenda ever came around. Now by white Red Hat but you know. Literally. It was almost like anybody who used to watch mash. Who's the colonel and then there was? Made sure everything kept together. And and that's what Linda was. And you know, you'll see her talk Jay in be around when we're doing things and then the guy's like you know one of the Producers Chris Came in as well as a camera guy editor I originally and now he worked under Steve and we've got We might yell Chris Show here. Jake Chris. Because, get a camera because whatever it is I have to vent or something's happening. They had cameras all over the house that Guy Louis he came in as an intern, for us, rule wile. You'll see Nathan and Dylan and Dylan. I've known since he was fifteen and when I done me the Arthur worked with Arthur the disabled veteran. After three months. Aren't through lost like seventy four pounds. He's still got his knee braces. He's got his back brace. He's more. He's almost walking around a one Kane I. Think he's walking out one game that time and his son. made a video per eight birthday. We're three months. We put it up on Youtube was probably the first thing here but like that and his son made it completely. Birthday I bet and this kid doing sees it. Now doing you know now he's twenty four back then he was fifteen. And he tells his mom, you know Giddy EPS this this workout and you know he was fifteen and two, hundred, ninety, two, thousand, five, foot six. And he's like bomb I, really want lose this I think I think he can really help me so she writes me. And Arthur's and I I I ever talked to an Internet. I didn't know. Yeah and she writes me and I worked at Arthur and she says if you could just send me a line or two positive, you know something positive my son I think it would really help them. So I wrote a back, send me your phone number. And I called her up and I said, you think he'll really put the work at. And she was I really do Dallas I said, let's set up the time you ask them and don't tell them but put him on the phone with me. and. She's to to Dylan. I just want to change I wrote time dollars page odd. You can't anything he's never GONNA has. To answer you and she goes well, he gets me and then he called me he's like what he does. He's on the phone right now. and. That kid would lose a hundred pounds in ten months. And then after that. He went back to his old habits. And people who are really big. They can't do genetic physicians. They cannot eat this garbage these genetically modified foods because it blows them up and whoever doesn't understand that. Bonafides WHO's. Just follow the history of what's happened in the last twenty years not country from Abi sneak cancer. Heart Disease Autism I mean you name it is going through the roof just at our country there's one thing has changed the food. Now he went back to eating that fruit and it's the most interesting story because when I first moved into the crib, he had moved back up to three hundred pounds. I told them I said, here's the deal you style Louis. And I'm talking to you you're both editors. Here's a job. Ever does the best job on this? We're going move them down to the crap. And, we're going to put him up and they're going to be a part of what we're doing. and. For some reason, he just didn't put the work in. Lee got the spot. Now Stott was his idar. He loved Jay. Here's a big fan of mine but I was his guy. and. When he he saw Scott coming which was months later. He called me up crying. Right this ninety, three, hundred, Fifty, eight now. I said. Okay Here's what we're going to do. You lose twenty pounds on your own same thing I told Jake. You was twenty pounds on your own. You get to that more. You do next thirty days especially at that big it's not gonna be that art. You GotTa Change Your lifestyle I said, and we'll bring you down here and you'll start as the intern. And that's what happening. He would be a guy that he would get all the way down like to sixty eight because he just a big Robo Guy. And his weight was still fluctuate back and forth by right now after a year of all this, he's the guy. That is being changed. and. Like he would be like his handler he handle is idol. But Jake was still really bad on off in the beginning. So it was like you see him by gates try to put tape around known. But now he got an education like he's Chung into a one of I. He's talking to our best editor because he can tell stories unbelievably now, and then he came here the only editing experience he had with editing wrestling videos. So he's really turned to a great storyteller and Some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are the IP exclusive and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content including Pro Wrestling Torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show I. usually host that program although he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight, but primarily providing. Insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means also the fix with todd. Martin every mid week todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest TV shows and major events from wwe a e w New Japan, and many others plus we'll keep you up to date on what just happened in the world of MMA. Delatour and more and what's coming up the following weekend plus book reviews, reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the worldwide pro wrestling scene and the unmatched mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world. I know I sound like I'm exaggerating but this grace up with the fixed listeners provide fantastic questions and todd delivers every week you will learn you will think. And you will appreciate professional wrestling on another level when you go VIP and that includes Bruce and todd joining me for post pay per view roundtables, following wwe and a e w pay per view events where we spend roughly an hour sometimes longer breaking down the pay per view. As soon as it ends, we are recording that podcast and within about ninety minutes, it's available for VIP members on our VIP exclusive podcast feet. All VIP shows are available on popular podcast APPs on both iphone and android no ads no plugs on the exclusives, and we remove the plugs and ads from the free shows that also show up on the VIP podcast feed sometimes sooner than the general public has access to them. That's just scratching the surface checkout full details on VIP benefits including Retro Radio Shows from the early to late nineteen ninety s our podcast dating. Back to the mid-2000s back issues with Pro Torch weekly newsletter over sixteen hundred of them and so much more full details at peak w torch VIP INFO DOT com. That's torch VIP INFO, dot com join the ranks. So the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcast lineup anywhere go VIP and get these shows with the ads and plugs removed also a huge bonus POW torch VIP INFO DOT COM. The other Guy Nathan. WHO's not just editor and a good story storyteller. But these also I'm really good vine phone body cameras well, and there's other guy need Mickey's here and you hit Nikki and Chris from scat. Established the school for you know Fill Your Filmmaker throwing producer editor to lighting and all these guys have just brought in over a period of time and like mile we're head on my buildings not 'cause I own. My. Own. My on my staff and what we try to do try to build this up because we're production studio now I mean we shot some great stuff for Steve. Austin it was just a Dow way to you see. Often talk about the movie. And a performance center. There's not a person alive. That, you won't see. Boston. Try to impress. There's not a personal lot. If he thinks you shouldn't the bed he value and that's the that's the wrong in the beauty of Austin and when he came in here, he was blown away and I'm under selling because he put it, he had the camera on, they just talked to him and he said when he said and I been. The closest person to him forever. But he'll never we saw the first draft that a movie which was the eighth. Probably. Anybody see it. Yeah. He likes it but he said. I don't like this this and that. Wow. And he just came out and said it. When, he saw what the last copy is I don't want to spoil it but you know the ending part. Yeah. That we do. I mean Oh my God the post credit in the post credits. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. There's I I will. I will just tell you that it is so be it. You know what it is but you'll remember when you see it like you were saying DVD experts there's something that happened when we shot that because we just We go into that spot where you're going to shoot it and we're going to talk about the fetish. We about a bunch of Shit and you know what Steve Edited out is what we got, but there's something that happened. That will be a bloopers things. That people won't be the. We let it be seen, but it's too funny. Not Be Yeah and. It's one of those things that'll be on the DVD. And we then we have like it's that question are these guys. Nathan has an I had an idea to start to tell the story from their viewpoint. and. That's the bill that most telling you I wanted to give you and a couple of my buddies like this. Prime video that no one's GonNa have except from my friends, you put it out there. On their own website or youtube channel like I'm not even GONNA put on mine until after everybody's got a chance to put it down on there's. And I watched it and I got like, wow, like it's Done yet, and that's what I love about these guys there. Steve is probably one of the most creative people in my life on. But now a lot of that is rubbed off on all these guys. and. It's it's really I mean, this has been a labor of love way around I don't remember who essentially somebody came in here to interview. Vince Russo's signed came in today. For the network that they work with Christian yet were and images guy who came in and. One other time and actually get to workout stuff but this. was in here and. was interviewing us and I said to him You know is proud. Of. My. Wrestling Careers I. Now because you know did it like I did it nobody? Levels I hit. You. Know I am so proud. Of this building and every the House Shark tank though I'm so proud of Diogo all transformations. But I am. The number one thing I'm the proudest office movie. Yeah. Because it's everything and you're right there's no there's one mentioned a dvd yoga and it's all on that raw spot. That's. Yup, we don't mention it. You know you've got it like you'll. You'll figure it out if you WANNA now it's not hard to figure out. You know especially when you watch it change, you know the guys lives where they were and how it got to where they got to you know. I can't watch it. Go ahead you watch it what. I can't. I can't watch it without tears coming out my eyes. And I fly I. Hope this other thing sometimes. He'll just because you know it really got to probably about the twelfth cut. Then, I started get okay I've seen it. I've seen it no more tears yeah and then get that last cut White win the the go home spot comes. You're like Oh, my God, my my my wife at because she's like this is the best thing. This is the best ever and she was waiting Ford and watches tears. It's like crying. It's like reaping. You can't help. You know you need to me Frankie Rodriguez from Chicago I set it up to. Because he helped me council that with a theater up there and He said is twelve and thirteen year old girls were crying. With him and his wife people, it was just going to be. Like Oh, my God you know, and they're wrestling fans, but they know it from the inside spot like you. Because there's DADS involved and all that stuff in booking he runs one of the best promotions in Chicago with Tony Yeah up there but. The watch the emotion to see what you. You know about it. Let me ask you this and then we'll wrap up here in a minute. Thank you by the way for for coming on and and the passion for this. I'm sure we'll be contagious wet. The movie is showing in theaters and when you were on last month, you were hoping to add more dates like how many dates are you up to now of where you you and or Scott or jake are making personal appearances at theaters where it's being shown. Well. I can pretty much almost. Memorize it. Being Jake are in Dallas at the M. Theater which. Eight took it for a week which blew my mind because originally. This other little theater. That's like that's what they normally do these little any house theaters and We'll be at AMC on Sunday and there will be at the I can't remember the name of it but if you go to DP excuse you're not. Getting. Rain. Jake. Yet JAKE THE SNAKE DOT COM, it's all there but we'll be me and Jake will be Dallas both nights, and then we'll begin accumulating afterwards and then we got meet and greet people want to go buy t shirts and posters signed by all three events or a pitcher. You know it's all there. If they want to do that you know and we make it. 'CAUSE, we're not making any money paying US committed to doing it. You know we're we're for to get away in now and we're just trying to get the you know the movie seeing and then we try to camp up and we do the same thing they're j. then I have to go to Charlotte Burr speaking gig. Talk that I've written poll owning it. Apparently. Jeez. When women's wrestling matches were relegated a bid card dumping ground and treated like a glorified intermission. Humidity era when it was only men in the top spots in the main and fads getting the biggest matches every night. Yeah. Vaguely. Seriously, while we might have a long way to go, we really have come a long way baby and that's why we started grit and glitter comcast covering the best in the world of women's wrestling from the Horse Women WWe to the goddesses of startup and everyone between. Each Tuesday, emily myself and our team of guests correspondence talk the best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling. Interviews deep dies in discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women behind the scenes roles just search P W torch in the podcast of your choice to subscribe or listen on the man and see the entire pw torch David schedule at pw. Torch passed dot com. And Talk Fortune five hundred companies in there and plane fly right. But philly because that night me Scott and Jake Begin Philly. And then we all drive to yonkers not what we try to mid count that night stay over in Manhattan because the next morning we got a bunch of PR and You know there's there's some shows that we made it on. You know positive bullshit happen but some pretty big shows are talking to us right now and You'll do pr on that morning and then that night, the three of us will be in yonkers. And at this theater a ticket for a week and then Jake's going to drive the do uh. To, Baltimore and there's a one o'clock show in Baltimore. And then night jake is at a wrestling event for Danny McDevitt and that they first class stop there in I can't remember the call letters are but gaining he's first class ages eight and jake will be there Scott by or staying in Manhattan because AMC. Took a week in mid town, which is unheard out like AMC doesn't do this for documentaries. Yeah. So now it comes down to the stance dance if the fans come out and support it if they want to see it if they tell people about it well, then we'll keep it. You know and I don't expect it. I've never seen this as the acticle relief i. see it as a Vod you know, but I'll get to that the second so. Being being started going to stay there at least one day thing and mid. But we might depending if they sell out that we might stay for two or three but we don't. We don't know exactly that yet. But then I have to come back to Atlanta to speeches I have to give one of these nurses and I can't remember who else is inspirational talk thing I'd do and then I'm flying right Chicago Friday night or Thursday night because Friday morning I gotta be on mad cow me and Jake. I. Know We're doing it I'm not sure stops doing that one or not yet I. Don't I think it's being stopped doing that one. And then we come back home and then. We go away and we'll do. There we already going to be out of parole show I know that's book and a few other things. and. Then we do the we're going to be in Culver City, which is in the La market and again AMC. Dave us a week there. So we're going to do the first showing and then hopefully people still come but then we have we have they're still we've got Chicago Pittsburgh AMC just picked it up and again we don't. We're not going to be there for that. But people see it. So everything is that Jacob State Movie Dot Com and the beauty of you go in there signing up if it's not in your city, if it's not in your country, you know you will. Get you know when we're going to release this as the Vod and being you talked about that Oh, you're they'll probably come on site and go right through your site. You know especially all your people because that will get them directly linked, and we'll have a sneak preview when we're going to open this up and you know once we do this, someone's going to burn it. You know end up on some place somewhere you know. But in the meantime you know I don't really care. You know because does end up on Youtube, people come out and support it and it'll be interesting to see you know. About you I tunes and All those places and I'm looking at, you got around Christmas and right around the same time. We're going to use pre sales on the DVD's and I really WanNa get that out I really WANNA get DVD's out there by Christmas. That's that's my goal, and then you know I don't know how much farther after that you know somebody WanNa wake showtime or Netflix. I don't know where that will go right now. 'CAUSE I'm more concerned with. Getting out piece by piece and we held this long. Well, we'll the Cedar. For. The vod version be different than the movie version that I saw. I don't think so because it's just too type. Too good to good the know. You'll have some bonus stuff when that comes out. Oh, God. Good in the. I seventeen things put on my desk yesterday. Seventy. Like that's a lot of stuff during like oh We can't get rid of you know we gotta put it up there and like. All right. So lay it out for me and you know. Again it's a labor of love get. We're GONNA do this once and I got I got. Story Jake was telling today about you know what's possible for him right now you know. What I saw from Jake when he started to really get like clarity. There is no reason why and once this movie comes out someone's going to come at us to wanted maybe do shaped snake Rehab. It's possible. It always Jaycox to do you only do one thing. Stay sober. That's all. That's all he has to do. You know and and and the scenario you know I'll probably be involved but very very lightly. You know just just say I'll jake invite you know. because. When someone gets like Oh, my God look at this people start pulling at you you know and I just scared about my buddy. I to I want him to be in a position that he doesn't have to think about having to go on the road as much as he does and. I just think that they're he's got a whole New Light Cowan man I just pray to God every day not going Roy. Today he keeps that same favor mind. I'll tell ya never been more confident. In my life for him and that Sir I really awesome experience you know. If you listen to the show, I'm a fan of audible I love my membership. It's so great to lose myself in an audio book whether it's fiction nonfiction, current events or history or like I talked about earlier this summer for me and Arcane topic the book, the history of Bourbon. So if you are interested in expanding your horizons or diving deep into a subject, you already know there's no better way to do that than with an audible membership of vast selection of books in unmatched selection in fact on. So many different topics right now, I'm about to dive into by late download, which is Dan rather stories of a lifetime I also just downloaded history book on the renaissance. It's a topic that anytime, I hear anything about it I'm fascinated by it. And want to know more, and now I am one click away from a twenty one hour book called the history of the renaissance and I really am excited when I'm in the mood to kind of take a break from wrestling and sports and some of the topics like current events and politics the more I learn about human history and to learn about a time when human beings just completely moved into shifted into a whole new gear as just people as human. Beings. Creatively, and and technologically I've I've just I'm super excited to dive into this book. So I hope you can get excited to with an audible membership and they make it easy because you can go and get a free audiobook right now just visit audible dot com slash wade or text weighed to five hundred, dash five hundred. That's audible. Dot Com slash wade or text weighed to five, hundred, Dash five hundred and they'll send you a link to get your free audio book. You might think well, I don't have time to read books why would have time for audiobooks? Well, that's the great thing about audible in this absolutely is the case with me I turn audio books on when I'm in the kitchen doing dishes, I don't even need headphones or blue I just play through my phone. Speakers are good enough these days when I'm cleaning the kitchen or folding laundry or driving running errands I've got my phone with me. I've got the book downloaded and there's no commercials you push play and you know that you're going to be entertained and informed with whatever book you choose from their thousands and thousands of titles. So go check it out. It's audible dot com slash wade or text wait to five hundred, Dash five hundred and get your free audiobook. For listening to the weight Keller Pro Wrestling Poe show did you know that repatriation you can get the show with the ads and plugs removed for just four dollars ninety nine cents a month and enjoy our podcast on whatever podcast APP you're using or directly through the patriotic APP check out full details at patriotair dot com slash P W torch VIP that's Patriot dot com slash. Torch VIP wipe away the adds to the Wade Keller podcast post shows and Peter Torch daily casts. That's fourteen podcasts per week with the ads and plugs removed for just four dollars ninety nine cents per month, support us and enjoy a streamlined listening experience. Dallas. Thank you so much we'll. We'll talk again. I. Know Jake said he wants to come on the show when he's feeling better offer longer stretch of time maybe that'll be around the time the vod or DVD comes out but fascinating story we've been watching it happened in real time to a degree but it was so fun to see the moving pictures on the on the DVD and to see the kitchen and and the setting and all the other people who who played a role in this journey. So your enthusiasm is is fantastic for this and best of luck and thanks once again for talking about this project with US here at the life. Yes. I love it. I have a great. Weekend absolutely see how to Steve You did a great job on that to really enjoy. Absolutely. Just walked back definitely tell Umbro. He he was a real i. mean he was just that steady calm deliberate narrator who just talked about what was happening in this dispassionate credible way that actually calm things down sometimes when there was so much chaos going on otherwise. So I thought he was really valuable to the documentary also. Kick. All right. Thanks thanks pediatrics, life casts listeners four joining us here today. I definitely recommend the movie I've talked about it. I did a full review not if yet remember PW TORCH DOT com slash go VIP that's w torch dot com slash Kgo VIP. Through the documentary for thirty minutes, give my thoughts on it. It's a great companion to this interview with Jake and DP this week we had Scott on for just a few minutes at the beginning of last week's show also the talk about it. So hope you will check that out too tomorrow Bruce, Mitchell, and Travis Bryant will be hosting at seven eastern. So check that out at seven eastern tomorrow talking about the weekend wrestling yesterday pat McNeill had bill behrens wrestling super agent on the program, and you can. You can not check that show out and then Tuesday was Jason Foul Jason Powell in me I. Should say talking about. Monday night raw and an episode where I tried to differentiate I've got a little testy on the tiller hotline. Yesterday of the members could pick up on that normally I don't, but there's a difference between enjoying a show and it being a good show. And I know it sounds like well, isn't it all about me? If I like rock must be a good show. But from the position I'm in evaluating whether this product is making the best use of the wrestlers the best use of the time Following up on storylines properly getting people invested in the product having their priorities in the right place promoting wrestlers, not the brand promoting matches not glorifying their charity work, which by the way is not meant to be glorified if it's So, there were a lot of things that upset me about raw Monday watching it and I talked to Jason Paul a lot about that. It was a a show where depending on the Lens through which you watched it satisfied some people left some people blah in other people really disliked it I was in that category as seeing value in some of the efforts in the matches and the promos but I also had a lot of frustrations with the decision making of management the priorities they put on it a lack of discipline a lack of storytelling ability, a lack of logic. And I I really went into that on a sixty minute killer hotline Monday night VIP, members got to hear that late Monday night and ever since then they time. But Jason Paul and I talked about that on Tuesday Jason was with me for the most part. Probably, not as worked up as I was about. Monday's show I also wrote an editorial about the presentation of Nikki Bella and how and I use that as as the example that led to a broader issue, which is wwe promoting their brand. Wealth forgetting that the reason the brand means anything is because of decades of promoting wrestlers and wrestling matches and championships as the most important and the vision. Now, the Lens through which the shows produced seems to be isn't Stephanie Wonderful for doing charity work and making the WWe brand, a great corporation and the wrestlers are just sort of there to fill time and we saw that with the Wayne Nicki was presented until tally on Monday night I use that as an example that's a check that out. All right. Thank you everybody until tomorrow when Bruce Mitchell hosts, Travis Bryant I want also encourage you. Travis Brian Show during the week the sister brand to this is east coast cast. The East Coast cast available at East Coast Cast Dot com they talk about pro wrestling and other stuff mostly pro wrestling he went on a major rant about What I wrote about my blog, regarding Nikki Bella and raw on Monday So I encourage you if you haven't before checkout East Coast cast dot com this week show it went up yesterday. Ranch starts about thirty five or forty minutes into show when they took their first call and went about forty five minutes. It is the Wrandell rant Todd Martin for a PD torch. VIP Contributor and audio and columnists and columns. He recorded the last night went on a huge rant about Nikki s and the suspension and nick. Diaz big story MMA Todd is A. well known anime analyst in addition to being one of the top pro wrestling analysts out there in every week on the fixed Todd Martin, which is a VIP exclusive show runs about an hour. This week, we'll close to two and a half hours. We talked mostly about pressing. But at the end we talk anime and we presented in a way for hardcore fans to appreciate it. But also I ask questions that hopefully drought. The dry interest from casual fans who watched UFC a major sort of peripherally but todd went on a big rent on the. Nevada Athletic Commission suspension. So if you're a VIP member check that out also, if you're not a VIP member, you can still hear the East Coast cast at East Coast cast dot com to hear Travis Brian's mega rant about Nikki Bella. On Monday. So lots of good stuff from the torch family this week. Thank you for listening today, and on that note, sign up for now and we will talk to you. I'll be back on. Tuesday with Jason. If, you'd like to hear this show without ads in plugs interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a POW torch. Member got about a dozen other podcast throughout the week that I host that our VIP exclusive and you'll get the way color potion podcast during the week with the ads and plugs removed all on separate feed exclusively. VIP members plus tons of other PODCASTS VIP exclusive access to our archives of podcast dating back to two thousand four, which includes post pay-per-view roundtables dating back to two thousand four also access to our full archives thousands. Of podcasts over fifteen hundred back issues of progress in Torch weekly newsletter that started it all add score website and more checkup full details at W. Torch VIP info. Dot Com. That's W. Torch VIP Info Dot Com to get full details and then jumped sign up form. It's mobile friendly desktop friendly. In two minutes, you can be a VIP member show support for us, and we'll give you a lot of return including a streamlined. Herranz on your iphone or android device with the ADS and plugs removed. GO CHECK IT OUT POW TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM. One of the really cool parts of being VIP members getting to relive history through the pages of the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues we have pressing towards newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties. We put a new back issue up from twenty years ago that week, and so when you go VIP, you instantly have access to over fifteen hundred back issues and a new PDF along with an all tax version. If it's easier for you to read that on your phone goes up every weekend and the latest issues include a cover story from the June tenth two, thousand issue. On, Gobert returned to WCW and whether he's a solution to what was ailing WCW at the time also my call titled Vince Russo is from Outer Space. And Bruce Mitchell's column still timely today unfortunately of racist gimmicks and poverty pimps was the title that's issue number six, Oh six before that issue number six, zero, five from third features, a cover story talks about how there could be a shakeup in the wrestling industry with WCW. For Sale and E C, W In future and also a Bruce Mitchell column spoofing Vince Russo titled How I became World Champion. If we go back another week to the May twenty seventh two, thousand issue. It had detailed coverage of the Judgment Day two, thousand pay per view including my review and Staff Roundtable reviews of the rock triple h sixty minute iron man match, and also the final installment of the Lance Storm Torch talk with his thoughts on various EC w colleagues the week before that the May Twentieth Two Thousand Issue Issue Number Six oh three features a cover story on Ric flair collapse in the ring during nitro par three of the storm torch talk with this explanation for why he decided to quit W. Our coverage VW hardcore heaven the pay per view and more, and then the week before that the May thirteenth issue features a cover story on the changing landscape and pro wrestling with the WB off moving from USA TNN and a potential shift of W. Also, a cover sidebar story on the death of an EC- W. Fan after a hotel party and WCW slam berry coverage and the week before that our coverage from the May six issue number six, zero, one of David arquette winning the WCW title. My and notes aditorial examining Vince. Russo's controversial decision and flippant comments about title belts are coverage of WWe backlash two, thousand and more I could keep going on. But that gives you an idea of what you're missing out on by not being VIP, member mentioned settling in on the weekend and kicking back and reading wrestling history not through the lens of Wwe, filtering it to their benefit, not three people looking back on it through today's lands. But what was said the time the week it happened by some of the voices that you are familiar with here on the way Keller and podcast and Peter Torch daily casts. So go back and relive professional wrestling through. The way the torch covered it in real time with contemporaneous coverage oppressing biggest events biggest news stories, biggest personalities I think you'll have a blast. It alone is worth the membership price for so many of our members checkout details on everything else that comes with the VIP membership including daily podcasts that are vp exclusive and shows like this with the ads and plugs removed go to POW torch dot com slash KGO VIP for full details. That's P W torch dot com slash go VIP prices are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month on average if you subscribe for a year or check us out for a month for nine dollars ninety nine cents. We're no unpatriotic by popular demand. You can now support us directly through patriotic GOTO PATRIOTIC DOT COM slash pw Torch v I. P. We have three tiers including an entry level tier one that takes the ads and plugs away. You can have the VIP versions of the Weight Keller Progressing podcast weedkiller progressing post shows and the Peterloo torch daily cast that's fourteen podcast per week but with the ads plugs edited out plus you. Get. 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Scott Jake Jake Snake Roberts Jenkins Scott wrestling US Scott Hall Jake Roberts Dallas Wade Keller Jay Steve You wwe apple editor and publisher Jake I. Scott Kelly wells Jake Robertson Patriot
WKPWP - Wildcard Tuesday - AEW Fyter Fest vs. NXT Great American Bash preview with Keller, Lindberg, Krol, plus 10 Yrs Ago Flagship w/Powell

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:31:02 hr | 5 months ago

WKPWP - Wildcard Tuesday - AEW Fyter Fest vs. NXT Great American Bash preview with Keller, Lindberg, Krol, plus 10 Yrs Ago Flagship w/Powell

"Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. PODCASTS will come join me out L. over in the press paradise at Pino, Torch VIP, as we BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches, and chose from around the world be at us, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place of restaurants passed in paradise to and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love our series, celebrating glorious career of Juche Thunder like. I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about a classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety, and you can expect lots of at the Pro Paradise detailed torch. VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP. Benefits is available at Peterborough torch. VIP Info Dot Com, and yes, all AP Alcazar compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices, or you can stream them directly from our AD. FREE VIP mobile site C in the paradise. Now pw, torch and spreaker bring you the wade, Keller pro wrestling podcast. We've got a double header edition of the way Taylor. Progressing podcast. It's wild Tuesday here on June thirtieth two thousand twenty first up is a hour plus roundtable discussion looking at the next two Wednesday night battles between eighty w and t with a fighter fest versus great American Bash Mega shows that are split over the next two weeks. Kroll Nate Lindbergh join me for that round table. Discussion recorded earlier today and then after. After that ten years ago, flashback, a Tuesday flagship with Jason, Paul, from pro wrestling dot, net, joining me to talk about less nervous Shane Carwin. And UFC, the mystery G. M. Our thoughts on that the Daniel Bryan firing the nexus angle, and so much more with live callers, so a doubleheader here on a wildcard Tuesday on the Keller pressing podcast. Let's get to the next versus eighty. W Roundtable I here we go. All right so sometime. In the last seven days this week's next program turned into the Great. American bash with an t branding it as a two week event and Also saying limited commercial interruptions got an email from somebody who said they think this is one of the reasons that they should. That people should look negatively on annex. T going head to head with a e W that feels. Predatory that? It's part of WWE's history. Being Predatory. That's sad and we might get to that email later. That said this makes it a little bit more exciting in the sense, that fighter fest, the next two weeks ray W that they've been hyping for a long time. It feels kind of a battle of super shows. It's like nineteen eighty seven survivor series versus. Stark aid or the royal rumble against among cow, stampede, or clash of champions and get wrestlemainia except. Live Cable Two thousand twenty standpoint, so I wanNA throw both you guys. Not at once that would be bad but get your take on. How you feel about the competitive aspect of how? An aws going at each other and just kind of wear your. Where your sentiment lies in terms of not necessarily rooting for one brand or the other, but whether you think the competition when when one group steps up and pushes back hard, if you think that makes a product better, or do you think that it's ultimately a detriment to either fans or one or both companies? I mean I think the consumers benefit right. The wrestling audience benefits that they're pushing each other, and you have a choice. I mean I would. Guess. There's a significant percentage of people who back between both shows are counted. The ratings depending on when they are grabbed for the by the ratings meter I watch you live every Wednesday and it soon as it's over, I go right to the DVR and I watch an x t I watch all of the W, because it's live, and I have a greater interest, but n exceeds usually a pretty strong show, and has some good matches, and and is generally entertaining, and so we are all benefiting from this I, you know. She media's The wwe being predatory I mean the reading. Somebody's coming in trying to steal their share of the pie and so naturally they are fighting back with their own show. That's life. That's capitalism and. I N T T was Lou was down on the ratings for so long and Awa had a pretty good first. Five months of the year in now and has built a little momentum here, so we all we all benefit when they're both putting on top notch, matches and cards and nate your thoughts on. Kind of counterpunch two fighter fast they had some ratings. They have some viewership momentum with one of the best viewed shows last week in a w hitting a low point. Is that momentum or was it just you? A few things not go their way last week. The semi of auditing suspended Jon Moxley withdrawing from his match, and it just was sort of meant to be a show almost building up in previewing these next two weeks, and they've built up fighter fest for so long that. Sort of at the last second trying to brand the event as as a two week spectacular might not have the effect that it would have had. They planned ahead more, and so it's ultimately not that big of a deal. What what? What are your thoughts on? So. It's it's funny because I actually didn't even realize that they were branding this the great American Bash until we were just a few minutes into actually recording this past episode of POW Tuck Sanity when Kelly brought it up. They brought it up during a very small. Sorry very short commercial segment I can't remember was going into commercial coming back, but it was a very small commercial segment that I must have glossed over just in skipping commercials So you know they haven't really done a great job? In terms of promoting that you know other than I think really all they did. Was that They've also obviously done some social media stuff. I brought it up on raw. If I'm not mistaken. I think has the most impact I think. People who don't really green next. He will see that and go. Oh, something special happening. This is a week. When I sometimes I watch sometimes, I don't. This is a weak. I Better Watch. This seems like they're probably putting their best foot forward. That's that's where I think the impact might come in more than anything else. They've done including social media. No absolutely absolutely and especially to the fact that they are using the name, the great American Bash for for a lot of wrestling fans. I mean that there's a lot of people that are in my age group. I'm thirty two I started watching wrestling right at the height of the attitude era. So the Great Bash is definitely something that I do associate with WCW. Being! Arrested ww still a thing, but I also see with with some of the ruthless ruthless aggression era, W E and things like that, so it's certainly a brand that I think we definitely get a a response and potentially papa ratings boost You know for four annex, T as far as it being predatory I've I I gotta say yes, but in a very similar way that that Eric just put it in. Yes, but. CAPITALISM IS BUSINESS You've got somebody that's kind of trying to. Cut into your slice of the Pie and I mean it it. Certainly, league makes sense. Does it. Leave a little bit of a bad taste so I'm sure but at the same time. I, mean you. Can you really blame them? You know they they. They need to obviously do some counter programming to make sure they keep their ratings up. They keep You know NBC happy so You know it's. It's kind of a little bit of a split. Answer there, but I i. definitely do think there's there is a little bit of predatory practices there but at the same time it's it's capitalism's business and you know I I feel like it's certainly something that they businesswise should've should've done in pursuit. Do you think calling it. The Great American Bash is meant to be personal when it comes to cody or do you think it's hey, it's July and that's when the bash took place, and they want to pop a rating and an increase viewership, and that that's a brand that they own the rights to so more power to him. Just coincidental that happens going ahead with the company that cody's. VP. Didn't cody try and He fought trademarks for a few of of the. Concepts that his father came back in the eighties. Is that right the great American Bash One? I don't remember. Was! It was actually. I did a little bit of research before jumping up on. This is backing out of back in March. He was trying trademark the great American Bash and bashes beach. I think we have our answer. Yes Yes it's it's personal ed at Cody I just. Thought would be. Waiting I are older than dirt, and and we were teenagers. Probably when the great American Bash was a thing on on Nwea, slash world championship wrestling TV. And so to the extent that people are aging older are attracted to the brand name well. I guess that's just the next T. The average age of their viewers up to around social security age I remember getting the Wrestling Forum newsletter in the mail before starting the torch and the most exciting thing. In. The summer of Eighty, seven, nine, hundred, Eighty, seven, was opening up in key, finding the results of the great American Bash Tour at the open air stadiums, and although opponents clare was facing and all the lineups that was different and it was. It was a super cool. I love the dusty concept and I. do think it's a personal. Let me. Let me pause and introduce ourselves formerly. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast start special. Tuesday wildcard edition on June, thirtieth, two, thousand, twenty, and I'm joined today four Special Roundtable preview of yes fighter fest in America Bash had battle the next to Wednesday nights an xt versus aws network, T. and T., cody versus triple H. Tony Kahn versus Vince McMahon. However, you want to frame it. IT IS A. Big To two weeks coming up and joined by former pro wrestling torch columnist, going back thirty years thirty thirty. No, not quite thirty years now. What? What was what years were you? Probably Ninety Ninety one. That's what I'm. That's exactly what I was GONNA. Guess so we're thirty years. Thirty years ago, course columnist aircrew, who was a lapsed fan, and as he's said on previous roundtables where he's done a great job joining our conversation here with his long. Old is dirt perspective on professional wrestling. Looking at eighty w arise arising here as a product that has recaptured his attention after being elapse fan so why Eric Welcome back to the show. You are now a working journalist in Chicago covering heavy subjects, and it's good to have you on here to escape a little bit. Would absolutely and Lindbergh who is a familiar voice for those of you who listen to the WTO, toxin x t show show that draws every Thursday if you're not listening and your annexed Fan, you're missing out on not only the best podcast. But the best podcast that could possibly be done on annex. T so if you don't believe me, go listen and you'll. You'll not and go. Yeah, yeah, this is really good. These guys know what they're talking about. There's good chemistry. This is a good podcast. Really good podcast. It's a great podcast. Nate welcome to our roundtable discussion here. Array will hey. Thanks and thank you for that that introduction. We certainly try to do a do a good job. On PDF detox, Synnex T, can you guys can join the conversation with us? We actually go live about thirty minutes or so after annex, t goes off the air so you can, you can call in. A five one, five, six, five, nine, three, four five. If I'm remembering correctly off the top of my head, or you or you can email us at POW Bwi torch NFC DOT COM and you. We'll get your emails. Get your calls. And talk about talk about this week in Annex. T that's great to bring up because the show. The final version of show drops on Thursday. And that's almost people listen, but join them live the more the merrier on their livestream as mentioned starting a half hour afterwards, Kelly wells in his report at POW Torch Dot Com covers annex. t live on your network and he has a direct link to the show with all the information. Nature's gave too so that might be an easier way. To. GO TO TORCH DOT COM on Wednesday nights, and after an extensive settling and join them a half hour afterwards. Okay. Let's Let's get back to our conversation here. I want to get your perspectives. We brought on Eric and nate because Eric watches the w live. That's the brand that got him the promotion that got him back into wrestling. Mate covers X. T four W torch Shaw Peterloo. Torch Dot Com with Mrs. Column and Co hosting the POW Tuxedo. So they specialize in with each brand, but they both watch enough for the brand to give well I'll. I'll say with confidence intelligent analysis also brand. Despite their specialty in their first priority being a different brands. Let's look at the the lineups for both shows because on night one. Aws Delivering as their headline match. Cody Rhodes against Jake Hager TNT title on the line. And there are also the CO headlining essentially with the crew sheet of versus Penelope Ford for the Awa Women's title plus Kenya Meghan Hangman Page big names in that tasty match. Defending their titles titles against best friends. Chuck Taylor and Trent. Not Not an a level team, but a strong a strong enough third from the top match plus jungle, Boeing, Lucia source against 'em, Jeff wardlow and private party against Santana. Ortiz rounding out the announced matches. Meanwhile eight. T is delivering a women's championship match against Sasha. I should say a non title match Yoshinaga and Sasha Banks Plus Dakota Candice low-rate. teagan knocks a at a four way with number one contender ship at stake for the women's title, Dexter loomis versus Roderick strong in a strap match after Roderick strong hilariously. Could not stay in the ring for five seconds with Dexter last week because he's too spooked by him so now they'll be attached with a strap and. Rear Ripley against both Robert Stone. Aware, if Ripley doesn't win, she has to join the Robert Stone brand, and then the I guess opener so to speak. Timothy Thatcher against only Larkin. Whenever we both of those lineups NATO you first. What do you think of what annex is presenting? Does it feel like? A worthwhile enough. Five matches to put out there and brand as the great American. Bash is the start of this Wednesday night battle. As far as I am concerned, I'm going to say yes. The is is the haven't really done a great job promoting it, but as far as the card that they put together in my opinion I'm really looking forward to this card. I'm going to start off with the opener, o.`Neil Organ and Timothy Thatcher so one of the things that I've talked about on St Petersburg talks in the past With only Larkin, he is actually he's one of the people that have. The the best match that I've ever seen live took place up here in up here in New England, and it was only working versus to Moscow. CIAMPA in next t live live event he is so incredibly underrated. In my opinion, it was that matches just phenomenal and off the hook. He just yet so anyway. I could go on owner. I'm not GonNa do that, but Timothy Thatcher also in my opinion I think he's a little bit underrated. He came in. You started to do some of that stuff with the bribe. The bruiser weights police have done but they have a very similar wrestling style, very strong style. So I'm really looking forward to that I. Don't know if there's a lot of hype for it. I don't know if the the general fan would necessarily. Be Looking forward to it, but if you're GONNA if you're looking for technical match, I'm I'm willing to bet that's going to be it. Ripley and rewritten Eliya this. This is probably the coldest I've been for a real rippling match a little bit I'm not GonNa lie, but the whole Robert Stone. Angle is has been very intriguing to me, so I'm I am kind of looking forward to this to see really what happens with the Leah and Robert Stone and potentially Ripley because he Robert Stone has been trying to recruit Ripley though fatal four way elimination match. Excuse me I. Think is I. Mean you look at the the talented in there, you? Knocks Candice Lorraine Dakota. Chi- four of the the top female talent in xt. As far as I'm concerned so that that should be that should be a no brainer right there. dextra Lummus Roderick strong. This as you said has been a hilarious type of an angle. I'm the I think the strap match. Can be a kind of a hard sell for some people it. It's a little bit of a unique. Stipulation, but if I'm not mistaken, it does have connotations to the great American bash cow wasn't it wasn't a giant WNBA fan growing up but I believe it does. So. It definitely fits the theme and it also fits the theme of the angle where you imagine. That makes sense. It's not just because it's the. It's the time of the year, so we have to have. Chamber, where we need to like ads Baxter, it has a backstory where yes, strong can't run away if he's strapped to Dexter and obviously. If you're into that storyline, you want to see strong. Not Be able to run away from Dexter loomis. I think that is a selling point. Oh One hundred I wish they had I wish they had an extra week to sell it on television. Then have strong. Actually. Get the news live. And explain how that match came about and react to it and I don't think they did that last week. I. Don't think they did and I'm not really sure about social media either I I usually will look at Tom Stop and ask him if they did on social media because he's a he's, he's always up on on the next social media stuff, but but yeah, so I am I'm definitely looking for that match. Or like you said it makes sense for the story you know so I'm all for that and then you shriver's Sasha banks I I mean. I feel like that speaks for itself. EEO triple A. on on I believe it was the latest triple h media call. That that he did after takeover he called the assure I the the best best wrestler in. I think actually on best female wrestling the planet and Sasha banks if she's should in my opinion to be in that conversation as well so That's going to be a heck of a match, so I think this is looking up to be a really good guard. So Eric from the aws things. We look at Cody Jake sheet up penelope. Ford the take title match. Juggle by Lucia source, empty F- wardlow private party Santana Ortiz semi semi random. Match their. How does that stack up to what natures ran down on annex, T and just in general for the W. Audience. If there was no fighter, fest name attached to it, and it was just a regular lineup, does this would you think wow, this is a way stronger than average lineup? Standard lineup, maybe a little above a little below average, but in the ranger standard with a special name on top of it with special branding. Yeah I mean I think it's like the better than your average car I guess the difference between the two is Awa has been building to this show for weeks now and I think an X. T. Chide of thought. The card together a little more quickly. Next is normally excellent at building to. Their reviews, so the given time they could have done a little bit of job, but yeah eight abuse A. Really good show night the night one night two taken together. It's a really stellar lineup to get on Free TV annex. T only has one match for nights, too, but it is the. Match I think everybody's looking forward to watch both shows the most kon-tiki. And maybe the only one on either card that where we might see a title change Eighty W I. You know I. Think Omega Page versus the Best Friends I. Don't think anybody thinks that the best friends are going to win the gotten to push this year because they weren't around during the pandemic when others weren't, but they're still. Comedy Ish. You know they're not pulling comedy. More comedy than not most of the time. Cody and Jake, Hager. it's just a better opponent than normal for cody to take and defend his TV title I think jake there to lose They had usual strong build up, though as usually do for. Cody Rhodes matches the. wrote the road to that. They posted on Youtube on Monday. was really well done stuff in? It was the focus of the road to segment about twelve minutes long behalf behalf. And they had they had promo last week. Show where a w got his clock cleaned by an xt, but to the tune of one hundred fifty thousand viewers. The Arn Anderson and then Cody Promo was great and Jake Hager and his natural. He'll wife. Did a good job So! Before that when she and Ford? That's just challenge the week their benches thin right now because of Covid, keeping the Japanese wrestlers out and Chris Stat lender and Baker out with knee injuries and Penelope Ford is obviously not ready to carry the women's division. She is their best options. The property to bells on her but You know it'll be an okay match credit party versus in Tannen Ortiz. We just saw on TV within the last month maybe. And To. The finish that I can't tell is the jungle boy which Soroush someday s wardlow. Who Jobs here because? Jungle boy recently lost and J F on the last pay per view in May and Lucia source just lost award low. last week on TV so in a better than expected lumberjack match, so NJ, F can't lose if he's going to be a title shot against Moxley at all out. and. Dill thinks you went with your source of Elise twice. He gets his win back I. Don't know. I'm. Pretty pretty better than better than average age w lineup in the branding probably Helps them the viewership losses I would think. Yeah Yeah I mean. This doesn't feel like a battle of two pay per view. This isn't takeover against all allow or all in or I mean it feels like it's the next level down, but it's still competitive, and when we look at I had I talked about this on the way, Taylor hotline for VIP members Sunday night the minute by minute and quarter our numbers for aws St last week. They were not that far off at different times during the show. Let's see twenty. Nine minutes into the show, a seven hundred forty, one thousand viewers registered annexed seven hundred, forty four, so in the next minute, or they were one thousand apart also and the minute after that That commercial because Awa jumped to a big lead eight, a one to six, hundred, twenty, thousand, so I say that to set up for drama sake the fourth quarter hour. The fourth quarter hour ended with eight hundred fifty two thousand viewers for an xt, five, hundred, Fifty, seven, thousand eighty W. As the average average viewership during the final fifteen minutes. That's a big migration away from. Eighty W over to annex t essentially a three hundred thousand viewer lead after they were tied in the first quarter hour. So my question to both of you is if we take into account, the normal way that aws pace their shows. We figure and I don't know if TNT is going to counter this. With W we figure, an xt might have an advantage with limited commercial interruptions, because those commercial breaks are a big moment. That's we learned to the Monday night wars to that's what a lot of people flipped the channel to see what's going on. With showed you think has the better chance if they start off relatively equal again. In that first quarter hour, which showed you think has the best chance to pull ahead, and which one and why Erica go to you first on this one. A W. Because Annex team lineup while I think they're going to be. Really good matches on the annexed show I'm not sure a lot of outside of us. Dry and Sasha banks non title I don't know how many of them are going to be. Necessarily ratings draws or must seize. whereas. eighty is putting out a little bit more putting a little more skin in the game. Burning matches than Amex. He appears to be The Adam Cole keithly match was. Some joy I, I would say and exte- will probably have a pretty big gap by the end at the end of the show, but it's not so I would think it, we one. You're probably going to see E W. Stop the bleeding I. think ratings wise. Aloha torch fateful. This is Kelly. Wells host of PWG talks and t every Thursday. You can hear me and my gang of idiots. Tom Style from share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in Annex. T live on USA. Network Search Bwi. Torching Apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire w torch daily cast schedule at you. Torch Daily Pass, DOT, com, cheers! Idea last. Wednesday is w didn't have heard this people in aws. It wasn't a show with a lot of star power. They had Moxley Vignette, but they had to Hepburn Cajun. The squash match marks that could be there or the and then. Hey man page and Kenny and cody defending the title. They just didn't have the star power. Nope, it's when I hear that I'm like yeah, but you headline with Chris Jericho against a supposedly hot rising. Character going from novelty act to perhaps more than that an orange cassidy and they just got their lunch handed to them. docker yeah yeah. So. When I look at this lineup. Yeah Jay got to be experience. and has some name value their titles on the line. They've been building this up for weeks. They made for those who watched. They got to see in early in the show. A lot of people did the Cody Hager press conference. For better for worse. That was a way to try to make it feel like a bigger deal. I shouldn't say for better for us. In terms of how executed for better for worse, but just having a press conference in it of itself, tells viewers. This is a big deal. We're treating it as a big deal. You might want to consider it is a big deal. And then hanged page and Kenny that the. Vignette to build that up. But yeah, it's not penelope it isn't this red hot act WHO's going after Sam w title or anything like that? So when you look at both lineups, it isn't again. They're wrestlemanias going head to head. Innate. How do you think teed did here if their goal is to get another win over eighty, W in terms of distributing these matches, and I'm assuming they're going to build a sheriff. Sasha at the end, but I well. It's a separate topic, so ignore. I'm saying this, but remind me in a minute. Should they have sausage Riaan? First so that they get the big audience, upfront and use that audience use that time with that captive audience to really promote. LOOMIS and strong or One or the four way match, or whatever like promote something else, so we'll get to that in a minute I. Your general thoughts on who think has the ratings advantage as the two hours progress. So, it's it's. I'll be honest. I'm not one hundred percent sure I I in a way. I kind of lean towards e w just simply because historically they've had the the edge in the ratings, so I'm I'm kind of leaning that way, and I think really. That's my biggest. My biggest reason why however between both cards I think it could really go either way. I personally feel like To for me, I would personally rather watch. idrive versus Sasha Banks in main events spot opposite. instead of the the cody Rhodes TNT defense, title defence in that same timeslot I and obviously we'll talk about that in a little bit, but if if I was given the option which one I want to watch right now in this your fifteen twenty minutes segment. That's personally the one that I would watch just huge fan of Yo huge fan of Sasha have been for for a long time. Especially Sasha there we when she first made her debut in NFC. So. I guess. I sale that to to kind of come back to I. Think might be W. that kind of sneaks out in the ratings. I think last week it it kind of was the fact that eighty. You did I just actually finished watching dynamite the a little bit before we jumped on this call. But. It it did certainly feel like it was kind of a show building to these other. These two fighter fest shows, whereas in the main event of of of annexed t you had that. Triple threats the triple threat. Title Match for the next title between Finn Baylor. footballer Baylor Keithly and. Gargano so you know I'm I'm wondering? If maybe that is kind of what switched it over? switched over there, but at the same time to with Chris Jericho. And Orange Cassidy in that same timeslot especially Chris Jericho a little surprised at it. It was that big of a big of a loss but Yeah so with all that rambling aside I think I think the answer to that question is probably going to be a W, but by a small lead. Yeah Yeah and I think one one you know w could start off with larger audience. because. They typically have a larger audience. USA INEX-. T last week benefited greatly from a much stronger in with a law and order episode compared to what was on TNT. Is that a weird gigantic lead at the start of the show? But like I said once it got rolling, they basically started from an equal position. I'm real curious to see minute by minutes on Wednesday and just strategically what each show does now on twitter earlier today I asked. Are you planning to watch fighter fest? Great American Bash. or a mix of both and the options was. Eighty fighter most or all or Most or all or flipping between both or watching both, but one on delay so just sort of back to back like Eric. You do for the most part. And forty four percents. They're gonNA. Watch fighter, twenty percent and actually great American bash now we'll find out how typical AP W torch twitter followers to the general audience. We definitely have I think with our demographics. Propensity to lean a little heavily more heavily towards Awa, when our polls, then the mainstream general public does. But. That's a big lead. That's more than two to one that does sway me to think. AWS got a win in their hand at the start. If they play the rest of their hand, if they played the head well for the rest of the two hours, twelve percents that they're gonNA, flip between both and twenty four percent that said that watch both won. I won on delay. So it's possible in there that twenty four percent who say they're going to watch both but one hundred. Aren't you? GonNa Watch T I by a wider margin for whatever reason and that will close the gap a little bit. Even though ultimately both shows will be viewed so I throw that out there to say. Without others even semi scientific indications looking at the ratings history, I think w ends up with. It's. They end up in a position to keep the viewers if they do a good job with their show. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? Why deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member, support the weight Keller, pro wrestling podcast way Taylor progressing post shows the Peterlee. Torch daily casts in the entire team and everything that we do and get a ton of return for your membership by becoming VIP member go to P, W torch V., Ip Info. Dot Com for full details, thirty plus years of Archives of podcasts. Retro Radio Shows Over Sixteen. Sixteen hundred back issues. The Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the week podcast week post shows npws daily and several exclusive VIP podcast just about every day dozens of VIP exclusive podcast. You're not hearing because you're not be members. Go VIP PW, Torch VIP INFO DOT COM subscribe to our podcast feed and listen in a streamlined way with no interruptions to all of our podcasts again. That's torch VIP. INFO DOT COM. Era Strategically. Is there anything that you would think would be good advice to pass onto a w in terms of match order. And how they present the show to try to. Should certain matches go longer than others or should be super short based on what they're putting out there? How do you what would eighty w? W Strategy Strategy be or a good strategy to try to hold hold the viewers if they start off with that lead and also win people over as the show goes on. Well of the five announced matches Jungle Boy Lucia. Soroush versus gay and ward lows seem to be seem to fit the first match. Grab the viewer kind of thing. given the relative popularity of the Dress Express and M J F being the classic he'll you love to hate with his henchmen I'd I'd start with that. Which means assuming cody versus Jay is the main event. you'd probably have to put Omega versus best friend at the start of the end of our one of our two and then sprinkle in the other two matches. Around them. I say to US Chris Jericho on color commentary. I don't know if they've announced that they're doing that yet. They haven't been shy about doing that. That adds you know he's got experience doing that. That adds some star power to eighty W. where people might you know? Viewers might think Oh. I don't want to miss anything that Chris. Jericho says. Oh and I just looked at. I just looked it up Chris. Jericho will be on color commentary, and they are emphasizing that on twitter so. I figured they would do that, but I hadn't seen that. confirmed, but the other thing I would say is I, think they start with Kenny and hangman page against best because you don't. There's not a back story that you want to tell. And Kenny and page are big name acts for them. You know they feel like. It's titles on the line. Titles are at stake. They're the champs they've got. I think those are the biggest names among the four teams we're talking about the two pairs of teams and I think with mgm F that has more ratings. I think that has more ratings off traction event after Promo, and if he can come out in that first hour and throw some kind of fit or just do what he does, and that builds up the match kicking off the second hour, and then you go to one of the two women's matches to pad. In between the three men's matches, and then of course end with Cody Jake. That's my thinking. And that's what I think is best, but I also think is what they'll do. Because Kenny and page has sort of as the opening match, guys on dynamite like they hope Tony Kahn, and I'd like to kick it off with a really good world class wrestling match often. It's tag teams. Any any pushback on that air before. Throw to nate on the same topic I. Think Your Lineup Works Better. I guess I were if I may. W I worry about the the top of the hour and certain natural pivot point where you have a commercial break and. miss the start of the second hour. You're thinking about flipping over I. Are Doing Jungle Boy Draft Express against to wardle? Art Isn't enough to keep viewers. Tuned in and Tanaka, flip I don't know the answer to that, but I mean those. Two options right. Going the net one of those ways, right it's it's. It's I can't be anything else being strong enough Intimate about they could do cody jake at the start. And just figure that's one that's got the most high the highest stakes, and do some sort of big angle, or have confidence in Promos to me again like if you utilize your two hours or your hour and a half leading into the event, utilize to make people care more about the main event and I just don't think there's a lot you can do with Kenny and page in the best friends to make people care more about that match. I think what people care about is seeing those to have a good match, so you opened with that cold with take titles at stake, and not only to build up the tag I have an MGM, talk and work his magic. But then you have. Cody and Jake. Do their thing. including. Jericho as a spokesman for Inner Circle I think you can make people care more about that match by not being unconventional an opening with it, so that's why cody j just does make sense to build towards and main event with. So, nate your thoughts on on the aws side of things. If you have any thoughts on match order as a more casual Awa follower viewer, what would hold your attention taking into account the lineup and what can I just discuss? So I think. Well there's certainly a part of me. That always thinks that the most important title on the card should always be in the main event whether it'd be in this case TNT. Championship or the world. Title I just I. I always liked that as a as A. You know a tradition. If you will so that that's just me if you know I, mean obviously I'm not a wrestling booker, but It, it might make sense to kind of start off with that in in the in the opening match knowing that You know you'd obviously kind of depends on what does well. If you're talking about counter programming, because see they did you start off with only Larkin and Timothy Thatcher? That really doesn't have that much name value. As we talked about him a little a little while ago. So you throw Cody Jake? Right in that spot and you're going to get a lot. More is on the AWA product than T at least I would assume so that that could certainly make sense I think it might be. might end up kicking off with the women's world. Women's sale matches well that that could make sense since two I do have to admit I'm not nearly as up to date on on dynamite as as I probably would like to be for this conversation I mean part of that makes valuable. Like. What would they need to do to get if you're like you because? W to grow part of growth comes from people who are tuning in because this is a special event, and so what names jump out to you? What things intrigue you not watching it start to finish every week since October. Sure so. In a way, obviously, cody and Jake, certainly certainly stick out to me. Cody, I've always been a fan of his I might be one of the very few people that actually really liked the stardust character. believe it or not, I kind of liked the contrast to goal dust, but that's beside the point and so you know I've always been a fan of his and see the legacies is family. Has Jake Hager interests me because I really don't see him as a main of enter yet? And you know, maybe it's because I have been a bit of a lapsed. W. Fan I. Actually the very first night that aws ever aired on TV was my first night during the talks next. T podcasts so I've I've I've had to watch an x. t live ever since W. has you know has had a dynamite on the air so I really haven't had the option. But so I don't know if it's just because I've been allowed. Wouldn't even elapse fan, but I haven't watched it as much so he does. He have that Jack Swagger stink on him. If you will because I, I don't feel like he ever yea. He was world champion, but he was never a man of enter and I kind of still get that impression from things that I've read online. Just listening to you know other torch content reading towards content other things online. And just from watching him on W.. Dynamite, this past week. The kind kinda tried to present him like that, but I I don't know I. Just still in my mind, he's still not there so. So in a way I kind of want to watch that because I want to see if they're going to promote him as a man of Anton I. Want to see if he if he can hold up to that, so that's certainly intriguing to me. seeing Kenny, Omega and Adam. Page versus best friends is also something that's pretty intriguing to me as well You're obviously the name that the elite bring to you bring to this match, but also the best friends like you said they're. They're not a necessarily main event tag team. That more of a you know. Be Level MID card tag team, but the the definitely bring some name value and in that comedic value In on dynamite last week, the the the video package hyping mismatch. Like I really liked the way that they put it together because it had like a a a really nice sports feel to it. and they were presenting it like a You know an actual sports contests, but it still had those comedic gestures is comedic comedic jabs here and there something that you feel like we saw on. WWe might be a little bit more outlandish, so I certainly appreciated that But If if I was to just flip on both channels at the same time, you know and if he w really wanted to grammy I, think probably starting with either the TNT match. Championship match or the Women's championship match we're probably at least be hooks me and. Thank, you for listening to the weight Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, be sure to subscribe also if you haven't yet subscribed to the Wade Keller pro wrestling post shows this show the podcast have our blue logo the way Taylor pro wrestling post shows have our red logo just search Wade Keller and Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to progressing podcasts and click subscribe to the red logo, and you can download our raw smackdown, eighty W and sometimes annex. t Poe shows I'm joined by a CO host to add a different perspective to the analysis for the show. Show where we talked to live callers, onsite correspondents or in the building. Who Tell us what did not air? On TV and we also answer Male Bay questions. Those shows are available for download within a few hours after the shows and on Monday Wednesday and Friday nights, so there's a fast turnaround to get your fix, so check it out. That's the Wade Keller pro wrestling Poe. Show just search Wade Keller. You can also stream the live at Wade Keller, Poe show dot com about five minutes after the show's end on Monday Wednesday and Friday night. Let's let's flip to the NFC side of things. nate to you I in terms of the strategy of how to pace this out, is there an obvious matched open with to Hook people to counter program? What next might be anticipating as Omega and page against best friends as the opener, but neither I mean at least according to their twitter feed neither side is tipping their hand on what will kick off the evening? So go to extra limits and Roderick strong, because you don't need to know a lot to know something, weird's going on with extra by the way if Dextra Lewis became, becomes a shadow figure through a filter and start us becomes a shadow figure through a filter. They both moved very similar to each other I. Don't know if you think about it, there's. Truth to? The open something that's super easy to understand, but feels significant because you're GonNa Have Adam Cole at ringside, and all that weird stuff going on already just open with a red hot like women's match and you open with By the way updated is now an elimination match, and just get Kai and Laura and knocks out there to counter. What's going to be a crazy? Probably high octane? Taking title match was page and best friends like what he opened with. If the if we're all in agreement, that prime make sense to close with Sharon Sasha although you could argue open with Sasha to get a good lead at the start and use rest show to build up everybody else, so yeah, your thoughts on match order in the strategy. So. My Gut says to start with the women's elimination match. I think that's going to be very high intensity very high energy match. And there's a lot that goes into it, so you know for for a fan that's been watching T. you've obviously got the teague inox in Dakota story line that's been going on since like survivor series time. I think time has kind of just blurred together over the past few months. but I think that's when I was so that's been going on for quite some time now. and then Kansas Lori and me a Yelm also kind of been woven into their story at the Dakota. Could knock storyline, so there's a lot going on going on in there for a fan that's been keeping up with everything, and all that but I think the match is also going to be high intensity enough. Where if you just turn it on it? It should grab you at least I would think especially to with with how annexed he does present. The women I know there's a lot a few casual fans that I. Know My wife actually being one of them who? You know the she'll. She'll see the women on TV and she'll stop and she'll look and she's like Oh. My God and she. Yeah, she's a huge fan of of watching. The girls do their thing and so I think that that could obviously you know. Play a point in. Starting out with them from there I might go to something like. Either Ripley or actually from there might go to Rear Ripley. A Leah I don't think really should be much higher up on the card. It's probably the coldest coldest thing on on this on this card. If I if I had to take a stab at that so probably go. There I might go with only Larkin and Timothy, Thatcher either third potentially fourth You know if we put a fourth. Right before you go into the your shrines, Sasha banks main event With Yeah Dexter Lummus Yeah Dixon was roderick strong, third, and then only lark intimidate Thatcher fourth is kind of like the As a match, that's going to be good at high energy, but obviously maybe that kind of a a bit of bring down before the main event years kind of a staple and a lot of w paper views not necessarily annex T so I might be sticking my foot in my mouth, but I'll take that bold prediction. Eric your thoughts on the annex. T lineup the strategy on how they should try to counter program Awa to retain and grow viewership. and with nate on starting with the women's elimination match assuming they are going to hotshot whoever wins? Women's limitation matched to the title shot on July as the following week I guess. If you is going to be face, you would want to have A. he'll win. And we've seen candice in Eeo a bunch of times in the last. Six to nine months so maybe Dakota makes sense, but either way. That'll be high, paced, fast, paced, good work. I'd say I didn't catch a good place to start from there. I don't know you got a bunch of. You Have A. Kind of the worst storyline on annex. T right now that they're pushing Maria, Ripley, Robert Stones you'd. Rea- Ripley Man. Did she pull a randy Orton like crap and in? His Gym bag or something? What did she do to deserve this good Lord? She. Is She going to dump soccer with Roberts Stone brand? I mean. She was very confident and like telling. William Regal Yeah Book of the match. That's fine, because don't try to recruiter, and she's blowing them off throwing them in a dumpster twice, but stone doesn't take. No for an answer doesn't take a hint well. In wants her part of it. I can see them doing a comedy skit. Or comedies, a story arc where Ripley is with is forced to be with stone and annexed tease current writing team. Perhaps if some other influences might be saying, we need some comedy and we need some Haha. Dexter Lewis and Roderick strong. Let's develop Ripley's personality behalf putting her to situation playoff Robert Stone. People who saw the momentum rea- head going into mania in that part of the year. Probably don't want that to happen, but I could imagine vincent man deciding. That's just the ticket to get her over. My God. Actually cool right, but he come out Yup. Cool she works great. She's she's young. Sky's the limit. I know what she did. Deserve this I don't even know I don't know where you stick that. You stick it where you think you're going to lose anyway, maybe you know. Is that, the second or third match you don't want at the top of the hour, you want it out eight, eight, fifteen or something central or And I think you have to meet event with EEO versus Sasha I'm not not sure how you book that finish. I sure hope they don't job ego. Because? She's just getting feet under her after her strong performance at the in your house show. But Sasha can't job either because isn't. She supposed to be in the Challenge. Title there and the extreme rules for Shell. Next month so I you know I. Mean You just get some sort of unsatisfying count out q fish Dexter loomis as a baby face is a real interesting choice. The choice I would've made does not seem a baby face gimmick Roderick strongest done the best. He can with this but you know I think. After the to to the women's matches. That's probably the match you WANNA see most. I think that's your and work in will be a classic in that. They will not leave that, but it will still be really really good like a new Japan style almost But. That's not I don't know that that's going to necessarily late the world on fire so you've got some BB minus matches to go along with a B plus for you know fatal four way women's match and the A. You'll match so i. just you know mix and match I think I think an xt will be helped because there'e there's only one match announced for July eighth. They probably have to spend sometime during the show shooting angles to build for July eighth right. That could the pacing. Angle that. Tends to be interesting and another self and get you to want to watch the match so Even though the the card has some. Maybe ratings wise weak points in it or actual weak points like the comedy thing with stone You could live and things up a bit by getting US ready for July Ace, and at the end of the day. He again have that ace in the hole. The Adam Cole keithly match that everybody wants to see I. Mean it Adam Cole Kief. We angles probably going to be shop on July first you one more to build that even if it's you know contract, signing or confrontation or doing promos that'll help where the NFC card may be a little weak. That'll help. So Maybe, it's not as long. The 'cause as I thought is in trying to figure out how to book these matches. You know you you can. You can shoot angles during the quarter hours where you have sort of lesser lesser matches. Nate thrown to you hear. What do you expect an xt? Do you have any idea how they fill out four five six match card a week from this week? What what jumps to mind that they'll counter program with in fact. Let me set the table on that as I thirty, because this is what eight has announced because we have the the full lineup four night to so to speak are week to fighter fest, headlining Jocks, defending the Awa Championship against Brian Cage. Chris, Jericho, against Orange Cassidy in pay off to the angle that lost so many viewers last week, then F. T., the former revival end the box against latrobe rose and butcher in Blade in eight man tag match. Archer versus Joey Giannella and Brody Lico Cabana grace against all three members of SCU plus Rosen actions. So that's what ws coming back with next week next t headlining. US Eric says with maybe the most attractive match of all of all both weeks in keithly. Challenge. Challenging title versus title versus Lee. So, yeah, your thoughts on exte-. T might counter with to fill out that card. So, it's I'm not sure one hundred percent. What what they're GONNA do to fill out the car, but you've definitely got you definitely get talent that they're not going to be appearing on the July first. Show so obviously. We wouldn't want to do something with them. On the eighth show, some talent comes to mind. We like camera, Grimes Damian Priest they've they've been. In the midst of a pretty hot feud right now so I mean I could certainly see especially with the last couple of matches they had I think both of them. I'm trying to remember now. I can't remember if they ended screw finishes are not. Actually may not have now I think about it, but still they've had. They've had a pretty good feud on TV so I could see them potentially coming to some sort of a clash on the eighth episode you also have Fin Ballard joining organic that they're not doing anything on July first edition, the great American Bash whether you put them opposite. Each other I I'm not. Not Sure you just saw them in a match with against with Keith Lee involved with for the North American title last week. potentially you could, you could do something kind of play off a bat triple threat you know maybe why they lost or something and and kind of build into a story that way so they're certainly certainly that there's also. Induce share I'm a huge fan of new share. In Malcolm, givens and everything that they're they're doing. They're bringing to the table right now. as a as our Kelly wells and Tom. Stop all three of us are really really looking forward to seeing what these guys are going to be bringing through the next tag division, so they might even want to do something with the tag. Titles imperium. I feel they've been just kind of a transitional champion. Anyway I. Really feel like the the next titles were bound for There is a an xt. Kate tag team that I can't think of top of my head now, but Wow Yeah. They just escaped my brain, but I feel that particular team, I can't think of was bound for the next tag titles, and then because of covid and everything be just. It just didn't pan out. So you know kind of got shifted imperium so I feel like you can induce share. They might have something to do. you know with with that Some sort of a tag team match on on July. Episode really makes sense as well as the annexed cruiserweight title you or at least the champion himself Santo Escobar your. He's obviously been a big act. with you know. Everything that happened with your the unmasking of Lto. L. Hyo dealt fantasma everything going on with these mass lueders doors, and all that stuff so he should certainly be on the card. I'm not really sure against who necessarily top of my head one name that comes to mind Drake Maverick who was brutally beaten down by him. Last week so you this week, we might end up either seeing some sort of a video return hyping the July a show or something like that but those are those are at least a few things that come to mind that we might see. Fill out the car on the eighth I think this week you could also. Go. You could also do. Yeah, you could also do it women's title match if you want it to right. Right to it. and then carrying cross has not. That on week one. He's push guy in promotion right now. You know you might want to get him on the show Is it another squash? Sure that would be I? You know they're all wash. I'm almost forty wrestles named guys. They're slash matches because he's being for so hard, so you can do, you can do It's not hard I. Don't think to fill out July eighth card in. I gotta say looking at what he w has on offer which I think. We're probably about to go to next. Maybe on July eighth. A? Team may we may have one of those double headers where you split SPLIT The first game and extremes the second game because I'm I'm excited about. And the NASD card that we put together here. There's there's actually one of the thing. I did mean to bring up crossing I forgotten until you brought him up Eric. WANNA pop a rating on July eighth back CIAMPA I'm hoping that. Maybe you know maybe. If. You are going to have crossing that show if it is isn't squash or. Lebron read, he's been trying to to get Get in his way, so maybe book something like that or squash, but you have CIAMPA. Show up or a peer or or something, maybe kind of hype. It tomorrow night on on the first first American great American Bash, but that that's something that came to mind as well I just I just forgot to get to it before. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell host of the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom, hot gas features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry, subscribing team, stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at POW boom dot com once again. That's PW BOOED DOT COM. Yeah I think champ across makes sense with crosses just. Domination of Bra. Bronson and then you go to, and then you can play the valor car that Gargano Card. It's just there's depth there and I. Think Erica, right? I mean the the what they can load up for week. Two to counter eighty. W is pretty intimidating and they have by the way the Ron smackdown roster for reinforcements. If they want to bring somebody in when in November and early December. When t got some ratings, viewership will madame over Awa for the first time it was during the survivor series type was cross promotion and wrestlers from. Ron's backed out appearing on and people who love ECKSTEEN. Don't like Ron. smackdown might hate. Hate it but the fact is? There are a lot more people watching Ron smackdown and they're not the types of fans who necessarily settle in and listen to these podcasts, and our as quote into wrestling as people who listen to this are, but there's a lot of them out there, and if you bring one or two stars from around smackdown over to annex t for week two, and you announce it a week ahead of time that that can be a difference maker, and what can eight UW counter with? What do they have? Hand do they have to play? Because Eric will look at week two and it's Moxley cage I would say George Cassidy was a big attraction, but just got. Slaughtered in the in the viewership data last week. Still think that's an attractive match, but other than that. It's multi person matches. That, don't have a huge huge backstory or hook to them and Lance Archer George Annella. Is I think you want to make that quick 'cause you might lose viewers as the sun kissed you. L. Match did last week. I lost a lot of yours. You gotTa make that quick so I next is a chance to. Like you said, get get a big week to win in this battle. What what do you think w can do to to counter that I? Think they've done a nice job building up moxley cage. They did a nice job for those who saw the jerk orange cassidy segment. What else can they do? Well they've also got. The the former revival, plus the young bucks against the brothers, their first match back in the butcher in the blade. Those. Those top three matches are pretty good Maybe you know maybe stronger than what he w has tapped on top and week one. The problem is Archer Vanilla cares. Nylon rose squash. Who Cares Brodie, Lee and Coke Cabana versus the The two guys you really don't wait. It might be a six-man man. Right, yeah! So it's three. All Right! All right so. At least you'll have Scorpio sky and STU, and those guys can actually go, so but still. Those three are. Those three bottom edges are not exactly leading the world on fire I think Jericho Cassidy look. They weren't in a match, so I think don't match his usually trump. Confrontations on other wings in really depends on the star power in in the match. I mean you can have a talking segment destroy match if it's the wrong match and the right talking segment, so you know, but you're right I mean actually wrestling each other is going to have I think more. Jericho talking and Orange Cassidy. To stick has appeal, but that was a big time. High stakes match on annex. T that obliterated it. It doesn't mean nobody cares about. The match just means in that setting people just. Peeled off to watch the actual wrestling because it was a good counter match so the. HOW HOW JERK! Cassidy does I think they have a better chance to hold their own actually wrestling, but it's not like Jerry is not known for being really entertaining as a talker so. I. Don't know I want to show me that people care about FDR. A group of Aficionado fans who highly respect at what the revival of done love their next matches, and they weren't utilized, but I don't know how many hundred thousand viewers there are that care deeply about FDR bucks enough to counter program. We brought up that annex. T can deliver. Young Bucks into big stars than they were eight months ago. I don't think dynamites made them bigger stars I don't think dynamites made Pentagon Phoenix bigger stars. They put them out there on TV, but I don't think I think it's tough to argue they're bigger. Stars based on how they've been framed FDR bigger stars because they tell everyone how great they are, but I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that the mainstream viewers who make or break rating are on board with that yet as them being a big deal. I'm not sure they're not either I just WanNa, see some evidence I think we might be wrong and thinking that that jumps off the page to the people who make or break a segment winning or losing in this head to head battle Eric. I think when you have a chance to see. the bucks on one side loop. Brothers on the other. They had nothing but amazing matches together in a w in so I I agree which brothers have not I think deserve a stronger push than they've been getting they've been. The News a little bit better than good hands like good hands with a good gimmick, but I think they have been given a little bit of short shrift in the bucks. They keep talking about her their greatest tag team. But they haven't had the belts yet, and and they're stars. Entertaining I just think that's a I to me. It looks like a reasonably solid match. on what is essentially a three match show on the aws side. Yeah. You know they've already announced. The Carter. And that's your excel another three. it's an invest have weeks of build up, but it's a disadvantage in terms of nimble miss to counter program annexed. Has the Nimble nece to build into the night one? Hype Angles to people for night to for week two where a W has pretty much to separate cards where you could shuffle the matches, the which night they take, place doesn't really matter I expect on night, one fighter fast to see an angle to make us or a video package to make care more about Yuriko Cassidy more about cage, Moxley and definitely more about the eight eight way tag match. In there's different ways you can hide that, but both shows are going to use weak one. They should use week one too high, too. Don't just point a camera at the ring and have everybody wrestle. You can also invest the viewers in week two. This is a battle of pride. It's a way to keep score in the big picture doesn't matter I. Mean Yes, and no every week. Matters does it. Does it count exponentially more this week? Compared to one month from now or one month ago, not really I mean what matters is just putting good shows and and building viewership over time that said it's a lot of fun to see them both stepping up here in July. And to outdo each other and going back full circle to the original question. Say what you will about using I remember Vincent Man Complaining to me in in the nineties about Ted Turner, using money from other divisions to unfairly prop up WCW. And put on matches on Nitro that he couldn't afford to give away the equivalent of on raw, because nitrogen have to make money off. How shows because they were subsidized by Ted Turner's or the divisions. This McMahon was complaining directly to me about that. He initiated a phone call to be to complain about that. And that's what essentially is happening here with T. you know they're a subsidized. Subsidize Division of me based on the success of Saudi Arabia. The WB, network and Ron, smackdown revenue and Vince is using that to boost and strengthen and exte-. Opposite of an independently family owned upstart company that Vincent Man saw himself as. Back in the in the nineties when Ted Turner was really starting to step up, so I'm fascinated by this sort of you know going full circle a couple times in terms of Jim Crockett promotions, man and then Vincent Ted Turner and Tony Kahn and Vincent Triple H, I think a lot of fun and I think this discussion is. To be able to have a discussion like this looking at two weeks lineups. I think shows that this is a more important a couple of weeks. In this battle, and it's possible that the better to shows and up giving the the winning show momentum going into the summer where they don't look back. They take a lead, and they don't. They don't give up that lead because people tune in and make maybe larger numbers than usual the next two weeks get addicted to storylines and personalities, and they end up just it ends up being a defining two weeks for the rest of summer. Nate I'll throw to you for any closing. Words on anything having to do with this and Eric do the same for you. And then we'll, we'll wrap up. Yeah I think I think really no matter which show you guys decided to watch live. You're GonNa Watch a pretty good show at least for night. One anyway night to is to be determined, but we'll We'll have a little bit more information next week to kind of base that off of I think as far as promotion for the shows, eight w handily wins out over an X.. T. Here the great American Bash as I said I didn't even know it was like coming until halfway through your recording Pedo Talk Xanax. Xanax last week whereas fighter fast, you know even if somebody that I haven't really been keeping up with an with a e w over the past your handful of months really actually had to look back on my Dvr to figure out when the last time I watched aws W wasn't a surprise to how far back I think. I think. Yeah, it's it's it's. It's going to be a pretty good pretty good show overall so so you know yeah, I no matter which way you go, you're gonNA. You'RE GONNA. Watch show up the first night. And Eric over for some closing and say prediction wise eighty w wins week. One annexed he. Wins Week to I would be surprised if there are any title changes other than teeth Lee over Adam Cole. I think it's time it's. It's time to to go with keithly or or anybody been them. Call at this point even though he's a great job. Annex T. The Star power on that show is probably lower than it's been in a long time. The death isn't what it used to be due to call ups E W but you know. Is as you've noted. They can supplement with main roster acts coming down to to refresh or to get away from Vince is Dan booking. such as dollar. So you know they have a, they can inject starpower onto their show at cut anytime. They want or or choose to do so they can point death star at at an and and fire. Eight W been worried about this since the promotion launched because they don't do how shows. They do the pay per views that have done reasonably well in the environment. But just worried about eight at you. Hot, shouting and burning matches. There's you know you only have so many matches before things get repetitive. They only have so many top guys, if to create top guys, but that's. Easier said than done and W. Could burn through all of their top mattress relatively quickly between weekly TV and quarterly pay per views and the fighter fest, the bridge that's not really a pay per view, but kind of a big show that they build before they get to the next start the bills for the next actual pay per view, and so it's something I'm watching long-term to see how they deal with that and so far they've dealt with it by bringing in new guys Early Brian Cage. You know at some point you run out of new guys to bring in, so I guess you just keep mixing and matching until. Until. They kept you on the shoulder until you to go home, but That's what I'm looking at long-term. COOL AWESOME GUYS! Hey, Eric, do have anything you WANNA plug. You can subscribe the Chicago Tribune Dot Com or always running specials. If you're into news from the Midwest in Chicago, guess. What's your beat right now? What are you covering? I am editor in. I say about help determine the coverage at the stories. I have been. An investigations editor by trade, but I've been on loan to the pandemic team. That's what I was saying twelve. And I've been. Has that been? Like! Are you exhausted or or do setting aside the the the horrible human tragedy of it and the absurdity? Some S is it from a journalistic standpoint as been fascinating chapter of your career just too exhausting inside to even quantify in that way. Yet the. For the first month or so, it was like drink trend. Drink out of a house was young. Justin say crazy to me, stories, Jays and Not enough reporters to chase them and. Settle Down a little bit Illinois actually handled it. Knock on wood, handle the. Pandemic better than most states which you know he's. Not Perfect, but there were you know I think there's statewide? There might be seven hundred new cases a day, but the number of deaths are less than thirty day. And we'll see how that. We'll see how that works in the next couple of weeks because they just allowed indoor dining to reopen at Limited capacity bars so in Wrigley Bill I Wrigley Field there where the where the cubs play, it looked like a regular Saturday night, and hardly anyone was wearing a mask, so we could be headed back. Jesus could be ticking back up in the coming weeks in fifteen years twenty years. There's going to be a whole generation of people looking at what happened here in just shaking their heads I mean the twenty twenty hindsight on this when you have the totality of all the information and you know the end result. Is. Going to look absolutely absurd in retrospect that I mean that. That, it's gotten as bad as it's gotten. When all these other countries, even if they've had any kind of rebound, the totality of what happened in Europe compared to the United States embarrassing. But Anyway Thanks. Nate anything you want to plug other than. What you already did. Which is twit talks? St Search POW torch, and your podcast APP, or check out Kelly Wells' report at W. Torch Dot Com, every Wednesday night to get linked to their live show. That starts a half hour after annexed. anything else nate. So comedic, actress. Actually there is There's actually another project that I work on It's a project, a youtube show as well as another podcast. Called Dj's and dragons degenerates dragons, and we We actually focus on bringing tabletop RPG. Gaming. And and it's therapeutic benefits to the masses so we actually launched about two two months ago. and You know it's. It's a pretty cool look at RPG gaming in the way the way that you can kind of look at it from a therapeutic perspective MY PARTNER HAS A. Masters in Psychology and he is handpicked each game that we play throughout the course of our quote season one to to figure out how he would best use it in a clinical setting so we we kind of tackle it from that perspective as well as just how your everyday average Joe can. can kind of get some therapeutic from gaming especially O- kind of in today's times with a lot of the the the ice, elation and things like that and how you can, you can use tabletop gaming, even any even in a virtual setting to kind of have some social interaction and things like that so certainly I if you'd like, check us out my up. My twitter is at Nate Berga. On twitter our our brand of four for ages and dragons is time this dg? In about a month I'm actually going to be running my very first game as a gay master and I'm running the world wide wrestling. Rpg I create I created my own promotion, so we'll be spending spending a few weeks on that, so I'm looking forward to that I. Watch your podcast partner to do a special guest appearance on talks next t reviewing how Kyle Riley did counseling. Roderick strong. I could actually probably make that happen. is is this immersion therapy or or facing your fears ineffective approach to do a totally straight, but it just like that'd be. That'd be fun. Although eight he could do it. He could do it. You see normally we wait 'til 'til the six month before we'd put someone in a trunk. Article Eric thanks so much. It's always great having you on. It's great to reconnect with you and thank you, nate, thank you to connect with. You WanNa podcast here and thanks to all our listeners, so we're halfway through wildcard Tuesday up. Now is the June twenty-ninth two thousand ten Tuesday flagship edition Jason Pablo from progressing Dot Net, joining me to talk about current events and wrestling with live callers here we go. Welcome to. Live cats, it is Tuesday June twenty, nine, two, thousand, Ten I am host Wade, Keller, editor of progressing towards newsletter and W. Torch Dot Com and I'm joined today by I. Think Jason Powell the Pros Dot net. How you doing Jason I'm doing great. You're the one is running a little bit late today mean. Little bit late Yes. Definitely I'm trying to deal with a new soccer program and get the labels printed up for our newsletter mailing and boy I could've used five extra minutes. 'cause I didn't get the labels printed talking to figure out how to do that while doing the radio show today and multitasking. I like on you a little bit more for a couple of minutes. Jason answering questions while I tend to that so I will be multitasking but I. do want to give the phone number out. Encourage collar to call in, and obviously the main subject today. can be the yesterday's Raw Jeez. What do we know about the visa situation right now? It's kind of become a story today. They turned into a storyline last Friday on smackdown with drew McIntyre and now Wade Barrett has his name has been brought into it. What do we know about this kind of conflicting reports from the sources I spoke with Yes, indeed, they are out indefinitely due to visa issue, and it's one source said this one definitely falls on talent relations, another source, saying well yeah talent. Talent relations and there's also someone from legal involved I. Don't know who to pin the blame on, and when you hear talent relations, I think most people assume all its John More night. It's messing up again, but there's no guarantee was him. That might be something. He delegated delegates to someone else too, so i. don't want to jump to conclusions there, but either way. Man 'cause the timing any worse. Wayne Barrett obviously because the next thing and also drew McIntyre I had zero interest and drew McIntyre and tell these smackdown before fatal four way, and I thought on that show, and then a fatal four way. They did a really nice job with him all this time they've dedicated to pushing him. Finally seemed to be paying off a little bit. And now both guys are out indefinitely. One source doesn't think it's GonNa take too long but you know. It's kind of I think in the government's hands at this point and we all know how they can correct your feet, and and the idea is that that they should have had their visas renewed and not come up by surprise, but if you're working on a visa in another country, not know when you are when that visas coming, do and not contact talent relations, yourself and just taking care of or. Is it so routine that it shouldn't even have to be asked. You Know I. Don't know This is a problem and occurred TNA and by the way. Get that chat room going because I'm sure you'll get emails on that Oh yeah, what we're here. this happened in with Angelina love, but the circumstances where a little different. Because she had a work visa that was Kinda held over from when she was working. WWe Mental, and so it's you know people who recall that it took a really long time for Angelina love situation and get straightened out kinda different circumstances, so I don't at this point. Point, I I'm not ready to say that it's GonNa take that long for these guys. Actress based on what the one source was kind of assuming at this point that it's not gonNA take too long. The one source said something about they had to go. They had to back to their home country to sign the paperwork You know I'm GonNa take his word on that. It just seems kind of odd that you couldn't do that kind of thing from home, but I guess the source would know better than I would on that issue. So when we hear indefinitely, it could mean it gets taken care of and really nobody skips a beat, and just it's written into the storyline and they're back as soon as next week possibly. You know possibly I also let me throw this. Let me throw this conspiracy theory. Maybe. This goes on more often than we realize, but. There's Linda McMahon Really WanNa have WWe using illegal illegal aliens. Running for office I mean I. Know This has happened in the past The first source said it was you know there was some developmental people that they screwed up on There was someone who is ready to debut, and then that kind of got pushed back because of this issue a while back when they didn't renew that person's visa and the push the plan push was never the same, and so it didn't really. It's never really made any waves, but I guess it's not the first time that they've screwed this up. Yeah. Yeah, so a little bit of a cloud over over the the situation in two major storylines opted the waiver one being a little bigger. Fortunately, he's part of a large group, so you can continue the NFC storyline without him being there, even though it's not ideal, but through McIntyre at least they have the ability, because it's not the central focus smackdown to write him out of a temporary. Yeah so I guess I guess this is a manageable situation. This isn't it Johnson three days before Wrestlemainia? Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. I think the concern. The obvious concern is that they can't. It's GonNa if it takes some time for Wade Barrett and they get to the point where they actually need these guys to start wrestling. Ouch, I mean you've already you fired Bryan Danielson for idiotic reasons reasons, and now you lose your mouthpiece, and arguably the second best worker that's on your left with six Berry Green guys for the most part, and I thought it was interesting last night that. The Mike Time went to I. Think Tunga got a little bit, but it was really Michael Tarver who was the guy that didn't do anything on an xt, so we never really got a taste of what he can do. I thought he did okay with it. I I think that that hooded thing that he wears really adds to the the gimmick when they when they come through the crowd, and so is kind of encouraging to see him actually get an opportunity to do a little something more, and does he. Does he do that because he's a Germaphobe? I I don't know. Maybe he does. In two thousand twelve annexed, t transitioned into the developmental system, and ultimately the brand you see today on the torch, VIP podcast INEX- T. eight years back. We'll be taking a weekly. Look at this page and exceeds early history. Join, Kelly, wells and me. Tom Style from WT talks annex t every Saturday, as we go eight years back to the day to track annexed teas, rising talents, and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW TORTURE VIP members. Barfoot over here on torch, live cast is six, four, six, seven, two, one, nine, eight, two, eight, six, six, seven to one, ninety, two eight win. Courage you to give us a call and participate in the show Jason. We'll talk about Ron Mister Johnson all that kind of stuff as the show progresses. But why don't we dive right into the phone lines and go to Eric? Code, nine three one Thanks for calling your name and where you're from. Tennessee. Hey, how you doing hear from. I'll getting ready for raw next week. I'll be there. Had Yeah to real quick questions one was. Do you think that they kind of dropped the ball on the straight edge society again. Jason Go ahead and pick. Yeah to some extent I. Mean there's certainly no one seems to care anymore. Who the mystery members of the straight edge society is dragged that up to the point that. Okay. We all know that those of us who follow the Industry which Matthews Aka enjoy mercury but the average fan at home. It's just like it's become the norm now. There's that other guy that's industry society. with punk. I. You know I think. They're going to get punk right back on track. I wouldn't be surprised at all if working plan if the holds title that long as mysterious Pumpkin and summer slam so I don't think they've killed it off. I just don't think they're doing a great job with it right now. Yeah. Yeah Yeah I I. Totally Agree I was a little bit more looking towards the fact, that punks character isn't as edgy as it was. Maybe they kinda. Rub some spot through their online. Maybe possibly. Yeah. I mean I haven't heard of that happening, but it's possibly push that a little bit, too. You think. They dropped the ball because pump. Cazin, his promos are a little more watered down. He's not bringing up the drugs as much. He's not ripping on the fans and much, but I think it's only about a week or two since he went pretty much all out with that. Yeah Yeah My my other question, and if you could keep you on hold, it'd be great his You know we. We give the writing team. WWE A lot of hard time for kind of making things up as they go, but I think this whole next invasion. was telegraphed Rut even before next ended the first season. What they were going. To be looking at where we are now with all of this. How much do you think this planned ahead? And how much was winging? It based on some of the stuff that you know I, mean. Maybe it's maybe convenience, but maybe they thought some of the stuff ahead. Yeah I. Guess The one character that of stands out where you could see him kind of morphing into what he is now a skip Sheffield, but you know I it's been. It's a little were just because they made. It seem like the in promos. They've said that they decided a long time ago. They're going to have fun on the show, but really in this together, but if you go back and watch those even probably the last week, but I'll take shots at Tunga and going back and forth with each other and these promos, and so I. Don't know I don't know how it was planning in Advance I. I kind of get the feeling that this was done on the fly and I I'm pretty critical of what they did last night. I I really I enjoy the angle that they did with the legends, but at the same time I thought they made Johnson especially in a lot of the baby faces, look really bad. They're risking suspension. And instead they just stayed backstage I mean Johnson and character is all about respect and loyalty, and all this, and at the very least I thought they should have shown Johnson being held back and fighting to get out there and didn't care about suspension, and he was nowhere to be found. He didn't even come out to help them out. I think it would have been good to have the anonymous. GM have like they could claim. It was forged documentation after the fact, but the new GM called an appellate meeting. And then everybody wanted one room and they were locked in there. That would be fine. You know something and you know i. didn't you were pretty bothered by the first week when they didn't have they didn't explain why Sina. Wasn't saved by other members in the locker, and that one didn't bother me as much, but this one really did and and so I. You know I just it's. They were so proud of themselves and Michael Cole. Sit there and explain it all that well. They couldn't do anything because they would have been suspended and was like. No, that's a really weak explanation. I don't I don't even know if you WANNA. Spotlight that I. They did seem a little too proud of story line with a big gaping hole, which is really you're the heroes that were supposed to look up to are worried about suspension, so they'll let rick steamboat. Get killed. Yeah exactly there's just. Nothing nobody running out I. Get it with Randy Orton. He might be the one exception of the baby faces because in the legend killer, and he's still kind of that cleaner they'll. They'll have them. Shake hands off camera, but never on camera, but the rest of them for that just makes them look like you know just self centered, and you're going to end. It just really disappointing. Yeah, I'd be mad at you if I was getting beat up. By a gang of people on the street and you're like. Oh, I guess suspended from work. I jumped in there. Well, it depends on suspension. Is You know? Especially this week with the holiday weekend. I take the suspension, but. Talking like a month or two months or something you know. I guess we'll just have to see him. Wake and take Let's go back to the Jericho to seven. Thanks for calling. Please state your name and where you're from. John May. John from Maine. Yes. Yes, you're. Talking about I. I I'm calling I. WAS GONNA say first time. To First Time they called a while. I just wanted to kind. Tack onto what Jason was talking about and then what happened after raw, went off the air, the fact that the annexed guys and I was reading the NFC guys and she mixed it up after so. Even the the fact that they would be suspended or fired. If you know, somebody were to to come into contact with the other one. You know with the entire arena or whatever it is fifteen thousand people Doesn't that completely? Just throw the The storyline right out of the window. You know what you're missing John is that there was fine print and it was too small for Michael. Rules only applied when a red light on a cameras on. I mean you're right? Know John. That is a great point. It's like well. We care about being consistent for people watching on TV but yeah for the you know five ten fifteen thousand people in this building. So you know they. They just WANNA see John May, come back I mean why bother with an explanation and only apply to the TV audience and totally contradict yourself in front of the live crowd. I agree exactly, and it's not like they pretend the internet doesn't make fish. It's just ridiculous, yes. I I'm with. The other thing that I question that I had was. Do you think that and maybe the visa situation might plan to it? I'm a conspiracy there. that given way their push. and his lack of experience to speak the fact that he is green. You think that there some resentment back stage at all I think, what do you think? I. Don't get this vibe yet. You know I when I interviewed Chris Jericho. He was complimentary of Barrett and saying that you know the next to. Eating listed him among the the only real workers in that group and I. I'm sure you're always gonNA. Have that UNDERCARD T to mid card guy who's been there forever and is jealous, no matter who gets pushed but I I heard a lot more complaining when it was shameless than the next anything doesn't mean we won't start here and I'm sure we will just Kinda the nature of the industry, but so far I think guys are. It seems like they're accepting. I guess you know anything that helps draw money You'll find the locker rooms. Somewhat in favor of you know even if they think somebody's getting a push ahead of what they should. If? They think it's helping business. I think that will well some jealousy, but I I think everybody. Kinda realizes you know I. Mean like shameless. Got This Big Push Jason you a good point, and this, which is you know? Shame has had a lot of experience coming in Even before he got the WWe, and and and as we found out last night with the I I got a kick out of this little dive bar when our Anderson listed. You know when people discuss the all time greats. What roles Tom Triple h was the first name you mentioned, and then goes into Shawn. Michaels and undertaker I was like you know people kind of like looked at my Keller's take a couple of weeks ago on pw sorts. Dot Com I said Hey. I'll new wrestlers. Here's the unwritten code of conduct. Here's the unwritten rules of how you speak publicly. There, you're not handed a handbook. Don't learn the hard way. In one of them is always include triple H on any list of all time greats, and if you really want to suck up, include them. I and aren't muster. Read it I. Mean It was right out of the handbook although he broke helped, write the handbook 'cause you know serious. The top five of all time nobody nobody who has a real a real perspective on history. It's GONNA mention triple h in the top five. You might be top ten fifteen at storyline wise, it makes sense but I'm just saying if you'RE GONNA leave out ric flair for political then don't deny that you're including relates her political well. I thought was very clever with that because he was talking about. The top five and steamboat includes mentioned three guys and steamboat and I thought that you know the fact that he left one spot open was kind of a wink. Wink to Ric flair Yeah? That's true. That's true I think that is actually a really good point that he did. Leave him some less somewhere in there by going well, the the the Thir, the four spot or the spot, or whatever that's a mystery, and you can insert the obvious I I left off here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anything else John. I know I. Just want to put in a plug for The IPHONE APPS for for both personally and the POW torture I think they're both great excellent gone. Hey, thanks for calling appreciate call. Okay. You can put me on hold. I will do that. Are Jason Let's keep rolling through calls. You're listening to the torch. Cast I'm host Wade. Keller joined today by Jason Powell, pro wrestling dot net's. 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Oh, this was better because it doesn't get any worse. I hate that other one that much I i. just I'm sorry, that's just me so anyway. Go ahead, go ahead. Go Okay What do you? They're going to go with a? Season to. I'm sure it was the question. Where do you think they're headed in here? In season to a benefits team, you know honestly I don't think they know. I mean it looks like they're giving I affectionately refer to him as you like. Packer would the big monster push and he's undefeated at this point You know what I was thinking about today. If the pros poll is fifty percent and the fan, voting is fifty percent. Does this mean we're going to get tight end the season, 'cause. How bad would that be you know? I mean they could sold it by now. At the store to show, and then having actually wrestle for it might be fun, but you know I, I'm not sure I think right now. It's probably just you know they're gonNA. Keep doing what they're doing with the ball and then make him the the pet of the the WANNA be beautiful people and they're going to try to protect cottonwood to some extent because of his size. But I think you know I I know people want me to say Michael mcgillicuddy because he's having son I'm sorry, but if he was not if his last name was Smith. I don't think anyone's taking this seriously right now. I don't see him getting this big monsters. Push out of it. I think it's if you're looking at. This is a shoot I think he would have to be. or Alex, Riley or the two guys that really stand out so far. I will go all I'm works. I would have to go. What do you think chances are of NFC to taken over smackdown when they're done the first thing they roll? Can they reproduce a single twice as them? I hope they don't. They don't want her down like that I would be okay if they say some of the you know we. We all expect at some point, the current access group. There's going to be a couple of defectors Justin Gabriel justice. All longest is a baby I could see him and. You know maybe. The Guy who looks like region Red Tyler Oh I know. Oh, he's a regiment Tyler Stephan Bader from USC. Yeah, he's slater's I could see him maybe getting phased out of this and maybe. Look is from the current season to the current next mix, but I think you're also going to see that you know a moment where they try to recruit some of them. Some of them reject him and that starts to. So I think it's more likely you're. GonNa see a couple of editions, and then maybe even some kind of a program where it's some of the current season. Guys fighting off the next or something like that I. Think is more likely. Anything else. No. That's keep me on hold. Like that. good. Thanks for your call all right Let's go back to the phone lines here. Air Code. Dot Two zero one. Thanks for calling. Please state your name and where you're from. Chris New Jersey our good. How're you doing? Everything's good everything's good WanNa. Switch gears I with a ring of honor I mean they got the hd. contracting the national TV show, and since that's happened and I. Guess I Kinda also happened with leaving whatever I mean. Do. You think this we anywhere to grow I'm fan but I. Love it, but it's just a I can go into their shows for since they opened just like the same amount of people, they're probably the same people. Do you think they could ever grow as a company or this is? Jason Go ahead and take that I I think you know the Internet, only pay per view. Concept is something. They're probably ahead of their time on, I mean it's certainly not the first to do it, but I think that is more realistic at this point as an area, they can grow I. I can't even remember who the author was, but I think it was You know someone from our wage. in May have even been carry himself saying that they really didn't need that. Many vice to break even on this and. So. That's an area where they can grow. They're not really focusing on the DVD's. If you watch the TV, show I I've always thought it mistake not to. Even if they've they've decided that. DVD isn't really the way to make this business grow. He'll focus on one DVD every couple of weeks or something really try to drive sales for that individual DVD I think Kinda. Stuck in limbo almost with hd net just because hd net. It just isn't taking off I think they're really hopeful that that will happen and they'll be. Beef up their program. It'll be more is on HD net in general, and that will help them, but You know it's I. I think the last most recent pay per view did I better numbers than the previous attempts they didn't so. You're not losing money, or in this case they're making money and so that's encouraging. Chris go ahead comments on that. no I mean. I it's interesting that maybe the you know. The HD channel itself really doesn't have the backing, or or even going in the right directions, but it's interesting to think that if they do. I guess Mark Cuban pump some money into the channel I. Mean you interesting ever featured Library of honor special? Did some advertising trying to do something I mean just take something step to let other people see it. Yeah that myself you know. They do a lot of live shows and things like that I wouldn't think it would be a major reach for him to do something like that with our wage, but my guess is that are which, and this is pure speculation, but my guess is that they're not doing the type of ratings even hd, and that's level to to justify the expense. I'm sure I would love to ones because I think. You would get people more likely to tune in for and give away chance, even if they're not familiar with the product, and you would for a show on Monday nights eight, generally two months in advance and it just it doesn't seem all that exciting. I. Know I've been reading. The newsletter says ninety four. Stuff thanks much support I. Really do appreciate it. You got guys speech bigger. Jason thanks for carrying things within kind of distracted. You're trying to multitask unfortunately a technical issue song, and it's keeping your on the show and keep it moving, but throaty a little bit more than usual, which well thrill some listeners, probably all right, let's go. Let's go to Eric Oh two one four man. It's all starts with two today. That's where I won four year on the shelf teacher named from. This is Kinda. Dallas Kevin how you doing? Great quick question to start out with I don't know if. He noticed, but the ring ropes and ring posts on raw for the past month, or so have been painted white and the first time since the new or I guess is the past ten years or so that they have been the ring road rent. They're doing that to make changes. Look with Pale. Well. Honestly, that's not a bad theory I you know I. Although his Gimmick is being image are man as or a block of cream cheese, although I think block cream, cheese has more pigment than he does. Not Mean it's just a fact I think, but no I you know I didn't notice. Usually have an eye for those things Jayson to do know I. didn't even pick up on that the only thing I can think of, is it? They didn't want to make it look like they were supporting the Russians in the world. Cup that's what's missing seriously. What are the Russians in this World Cup? Wrestling, soccer is that you get people into hockey because of the Russians Russians. You need some like anti-communist. Even though they're you know whatever come on, we back get the Russians in their. Let 'em she wasn't become. World's dominant power, and and more Americans will care about the World Cup got underway. He'll man whatever happened to the and I hate to joke about anything like this, but what happened in the old days when the enemies we're fighting and war had sports teams. Good point well I mean. North Korea does the best part is they won't show highlights of anything that is not positive for their team or television, and they got smoke seven nothing so I. Never did hear if they just pretend like the game didn't happen or what they did. That's funny. Well Anyway. Kevin anything else. Yeah I just wanted to looking at the NFC season. Too I think overall. The wrestlers rookies have more charisma than season one but If looking at making a prediction about tonight's vote, I'd say it's probably a toss up between lucky cannon, and he like would bringing up number eight. Jason. What do you think what's? What's the prediction for tonight Oh boy, they haven't really done Husky Harris any favors by knocking him. Either and cody's been the all out. He'll on doing a really good job, so maybe Husky gets a little bit of You know if you know just takes. Takes, the heat for cody and and doesn't get any votes. I'm not sure but Gosh cotton would be and. I it just, it's I hard time talking about the next. T because you don't know how they're approaching it I mean let's keep in mind. Bryan Danielson Daniel Bryan was own seven yet was leading the competition and the pros poll last time it. They don't I. Don't think they know what they're formulas and I just have a real hard time taking seriously. I wonder if the person who gets the least amount of TV time is the one who's going to be typically voted out or if like. You know if you guys are saying there's GonNa be some clues about you know the TV. Time will come on as a very. It's like the guy. Star Trek, who had never seen before, but all of a sudden he got camera time. You know he's GonNa die. REDSHIRT. Yeah, there, you go, yeah. which carried over the loss by the way? I don't know if yes. They did out and how many people picked up on that, but they definitely lost everyone who wanted a lost reference. You can take your shot now anyway asked meet I'm not going to sneak them in come on. Kevin anything else. That's it. Thanks very much appreciate it if you're interested in VIP, membership w torch as Kevin just said the. U., R. L., the go to Twu torch dot com slash kgo VIP. That's PW torch dot com slash kgo VIP Jason. We should take this moment to plug your website also and your membership site. Why don't you go with that? Absolutely I don't over to pro wrestling, dot, net and for those of you haven't seen it yet. You will find out that there was a big wwe. Over the weekend, which I'm sure, we'll talk about and also on the members side of things. It's an ad version of the site. If you're in audio, what you? Obviously, there's a ton of it Every pay per view every wash show usually a couple of them even and also weekly Qna's where we just answered member questions those tend to last about an hour each and we do a couple of each week, and then the dot net weekly audio show as well, and you'll get the first look at news yesterday before. Posting anything on the on the at based in the site, the members had the I look at the entire rundown of the matches for the impact tapings yesterday, not just the ones they advertise on the website, but the actual full list of matches, and so members were always getting the first look at news, and again it's the ad free version of the site, and you can sign up for as cheap as five dollars and fifty cents a month. If you take the annual option and all you have to do for that as head on over to pro wrestling dot net, and look for the sign up page, and you can get on there almost instantaneously. Wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life well, we're those kind of people to, but we do so with mixed martial arts I'm Robert via host of enemy. Top for pro wrestling advanced every Monday on pw torches daily cast lineup. Not only do we cover every you have see tour event. We provide context. That testing would really understand I mean we're the type of people that if? If you ask us about how much of a mess middleweight title situation is were likely to reference WCW in the early nineties. Think of us as a podcast for casual MMA. Fence done by hardcore wrestling nerves, and you could find us by searching pw torching apple podcasts or any popular podcast. Abbott and we're always available on demand at peak w torch, CASS DOT com where you could check out the entire lineup of the PD matured daily cast. Let's get back to the phone lines and go to Where do we go to one fourth last one, so we will go to Let's not do to Eric. Let's do a five year five six two. You're on the life cast. Please state your name and where you're from. Oh some. Guys doing today. Joe, where are you your Jason? And where are you from? Rate I'm sorry, Ray from Long Beach California. My phone's breaking the during the day doing great. Yeah, what's online today? hear from you know. Trying to head out to Las Vegas this weekend and I was just thinking you know. I got some tickets to see lessening Kirwin and I'm a college or whatever his name is no way you don't get to say. You have tickets to the biggest MMA five, maybe ever and not know the last name of one of the guys in the moments that should. Evoke. Let me tell well. Let me just tell you this out of respect for and I. Think you can respect the rest of the industry I used to work at Cosco Nice to hear a lot of people tell me Oh, I hope listener brings his wwe championship belt to the ring when he gets his ass. Sorry focusing on your life cast. And then. And I I used to hear them say that, and I used to hear them constantly put down brock listener, and then now I said you know what when Rock, Metzner, dominates sports I'm not GonNa know anybody on that roster. US. Rampage your household name, but when it takes over, everyone else won't matter and here's my question to you guys today. In ten years. Iraq lesnik continues to dominate the sport of USC, and he's already dominated the sport of wwe and pro wrestling. Just period amateur every kind of any kind of fighting for that. You think she'll be better than Bruno. San Martino in ten years. If you Raines with three USC Championships for ten years. What do you mean better than Bruno, Sammartino? Well I can't compare. Because ones was was dominated. The pro-russian industry and one's dominating the brand new sport. You know that wasn't around at the time of you. Know Bruno San Martino, but just dominating in the championship reign. meany always champion for like you're just years so for his era. Will he like comparing the two? Because no one's ever get Johnston Whole Cogan Austin. They're never going to compare Bruno. San Martino. Obviously Vince has to have somebody win. Somebody lives for marketing, purposes but USC. This is real in can hold onto the belts for like you know. Pretty Much I. would say came ten years about Bruno San Martino title, so would you compare to? Would you just say you know US's ESPN WWW athletes www? I would say they're such different areas. It's it's really difficult to make a comparison and you're mixing sports Brian hoops in this week's pursing torch newsletter. He does a weekly full-page columnist. Algae News and Hall of fame, and reviews the on-demand wwf wwe round table discussions, and in this week's issue, he writes about The Bruno Sammartino debate and and discussion of where he falls in history and people in that in that discussion. was among them Michael Hayes saying that that the fact that he kind of is an active in pro wrestling and so negative towards it. You know really does hurt his legacy so I'm just throwing that out there. If you haven't read thirty, be sure to check out Brian hoops. Call him on that because San Martino name is in the news this week. Jason. I guess I'll throw to you on that I. Don't want to lead you in any direction. You just can't compare I would be far more impressive. Rock Lizard managed to hold onto an actual title that has fought over then I would Bruno's year reign I mean no disrespect Bruno but I don't even know that brock listener gets through Saturday night as champion. Let alone ten years. Let's not get you out of ourselves. I I agree with that I. Mean I I. Do you a pick for Saturday night said. Um you know I I haven't actually really set in stone yet. I mean it's. It's normally if if I normally take lessner, but it's just that whole physical ailment, and just not knowing what Brock Leser. You'RE GONNA, get but Carlin's got those dangerous hands man, it's it's GonNa. Be Hell to fight him actually going to be putting up a pro a poll here. I wanted to say pros bowl. As we're doing this in about ten minutes on the website, asking pro wrestling dot net readers they think are GonNa win the fight. I'm leaning listener, but Gosh I. mean this. This one's a toss up. I would not bet on this flight. Let's put it that way that that's what I believe. I was talking to Bruce. Mitchell about this in an audio and I. Just say this is one of those fights. Were you? Can't if you if you speak with confidence and what's going to happen in this fight? You are not you don't understand the fight game because there's just way too many variables. I mean okay. If you're a super super super expert, you've been to both training camps. Who studied their tapes? You you? You know you're just like at the very top level. I'll listen to you. You know frantically. Tour wants to make a pick I'll listen to them. you know that type of thing? But if you're just an average fan and you're real confident. One guy's GonNa win over the other okay. You got a shot to be right, but it doesn't mean you knew you were going to be or that. You know you re. Just, so many people are going to be wrong with that information. It is such a toss up. There's just still limited information broadcast, and so long, and the health issues could play into it. Carwin has great out power. We haven't seen Brockett hit before by anybody with any kind of power. Close to Carwyn. It's just it's a fascinating battle between the listener who was a? A wrestler car win a better striker, more power, a lot of setting factors and this one I, I'm I'm intrigued attack by it, but yeah, I have no idea who's GonNa Win I'm picking Brock. If I had to pick somebody 'cause, I'm Kinda taking him until he gives me a reason not to, but I'm not gonNA. Be Shocked if it doesn't work out. Yeah I, mean I. Think If rockets on the ground it's business as usual ground and pound, and and if he can't if Collin can keep on his feet, I mean he's got a heck of a chance to to knock off Leshner. It's going to be a really play with a ton of build up into a problem. You know it. It has a potential to be one of those flights that ends up going two minutes and frustrates everybody well, you know there was a pretty cool fight on Saturday that went two minutes and people weren't. About that, it was pretty interesting. I wasn't I was happy as can be, were you? Happy to. Go Down, yes, just a minute or and the guy's obviously an awesome fighter, but I just so tired of you know. Oh, he's clearly number one when he won hasn't been fighting anybody and he hasn't looked impressive, not fighting anybody. Yeah, fate or We'll move off Obama. May We don't WanNa? Drive non-impact people who go to us to not have to listen to Ma Taco too crazy but it is listener, so it's relevant, but the fate or think I. The thing about. I don't know that he ever looked super impressive. You know this isn't vitor. Belfort who to charges across the ring when he was a female skirt, just Bang Bang Bang not people out. It's not you know this this majestic you know there's this majestic hoist gracie where you're just like. Wow, look what he just did. I can't believe. Saito Sater's always been kind of like. That happen. You know he's so so Sullen in his body language, and and and still I don't know I've never. It's not like you. Look at them now and go. He's half the half the man who used to be. He's just always kind of approach fights that way with kind of a an understated fighting spirit, but he's a fascinating character I. Love this quote up the fight, which is one cannot stand up. who wasn't knockdown something to that effect and you know. He took the loss like it matter to him, but he also took it like a man. You know it wasn't. Go the translation was much better than ran. Range sings translation last night. I just took it back to rush. What did you think of that angle by the way I didn't care? I'm just like. Why are they doing this? If they I seriously, if this out to and I don't think it is Let's say this is like planting the seeds for Ranjin Singh being anonymous raw. Oh My. There's not I. Don't know that there's a character I like less than his character. There's just something about him the way he especially since they turn baby face, and maybe he'd be veterans. He'll I just have a problem with baby-faced managers period, but especially him just walking out with that goofy smile, and it's just it's just. He's so tone deaf to the tone you if you're a manager, baby, face or heel, and he just looks like yeah I I I'm not. I am not a fan of that and I'm stammering at the thought of him. Being that that's not cross my mind to Jason and there's a lot of I and when it goes on and wwe whenever you see. Dave Kapoor Aka Ranjit, Singh or Big Dick. Johnson on TV because they're both creative team members, and they both raw extra pay for that and so It's other writers roll their eyes, and certainly the talent rolls her eyes, and I just said. Get the Guy Off TV. Let's go back to the phone lines and change the subject here you go nine. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from. Obvious. Hey Hey. I'm doing good how you don't have A. I'm doing okay. Yes, I got Quick. Question from last week. I think we got cut off about you know okay the things will work out if you've been you know a push like a world champion in the CROCK era. So? What's your question? About staying. On why they never get you know. Put The bill crocodile era. Well he? He had the big match with flair and eighty eight. And I know that he didn't just kind of marching through it in my head, so he wanted he had the big match in March of Eight. Then he won the title in Ninety Ninety even. Nineteen One He wanted the night. It wasn't just. You know I don't know that you can give them too hard of a time i. mean it's so. It took two years in two months. I mean that with a different era and it was ric flair. We're talking about. And sting was young and green at that point, and the idea of going with somebody before they were ready I think that showed a decent amount of patience. Jason. You remember that era and thinking stinks should have had the title sooner. Remember the air and I I at that time probably wanted to capture the title, but looking back on it I. Mean I'm a big believer in. There's money in the chase and they probably made a lot of good money at the house. show that chase. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of my thing I. Don't think it was political. I think it was philosophical. They said well seventh eighth title. Let's do this the right way. And you know it's also mentioned work and stingiest wasn't. He wasn't ready to deliver at that point, I mean that company was based on Work Right? We're seeing cartoon, wrestling and WWF at the time and with with WCW. They really fancy themselves. As that work ran instead in the main events, even unless it was against Flair, all the time just wasn't gonNA. BE ABLE TO HOLD UP, yeah! Yeah next Lugar collect at the time. You know they want them to be the next Hogan for Louis working. The thing was yeah. No you're right. You're right about that Hannibal I, mean He Luger? Was I think because of the similarity to Hogan I. Don't know They wanted that he was always. It was for sure part of the body, and it's looking everything they had their to it. was you know if you lived through? That era is a fan. There was a real you know deal with Alexa. Do you go with sting? That question was asked a lot and there was a real I think push for staying among among most people who thought he had the bigger upside, but I do think management cited a little bit more with Luger and I'm trying to think if you think from. MEMPHIS. And Luger came from Florida I. Think if there are any political reasons that would have gone that way I'm not. You wwl probably every two. I heard that they didn't want to push. Guys, yeah I think you're pro I think. Probably there is maybe a little bit of a hometown mentality which was Lexi with our guys. Thing came from from Bill Watts's mid south group so they may want. They may have wanted to Paul. I'd Lugar if all other things. Regal anything else Hannibal. To I got some report about you know But bleacher report stating there and you know that it Dixie. Carter's in a really strong You know really strong to try and get and Paul Heyman there in I. WanNa put you know It on your side of Eric Bischoff on production. You know. To do that's what he's trying to say something. ACURA recital whatever I Jesus. What is the latest on Paul, Heyman, Dixie Carter, Eric Bischoff the politics. There I, not I I don't know saying it was. Her. bleacher reports a pretty wide statement. Because just abou