20 Episode results for "Kelloggs"
"Hello, everyone and welcome. Welcome. Welcome to the empty bowl podcasts about serial and relaxation. My name is Justin McElroy, and I am a serial enthusiast, and I am dang you bear. And I would really like to see where I fall on sort of the list of people who have written. The most words about Syria. I'm sure I'm not at the top. There's probably cereal historians out there. But if there's ever a goal for me that let's I am you gotta have a jury. My dream is that you the listener beloved listener will will be able to relax for the next twenty however, many minutes, we asked these sit down or stand you could lie on your back. If you like close your eyes if it is safe and prudent and just sort of focus on Syria. We've got some relaxing music, mice ocean leases and no challenging ideas. This is a. Crunchies zen garden for you to unwind and just consider Siri. And that's. Stood up with some some news headlines that would that would fill my bowl beautifully. Dan. All right, everybody else gets your bowls out be prepared. Because the first news headline is Kellogg's launching a cat corn cereal. It's sort of exclusive to Sam's Club for the moment. Though. I'm told it will be eventually reaching stores everywhere for all the catacomb fans out there. I know they're rabid bunch. But this is sort of a a new rendition of the unicorn cereal that Kelloggs launched last year, which was in itself sort of an Americanize Asian of unicorn fruit loops which Europe just prior. So it's a very complicated genealogy of mythological serial. But so unicorns had a magical cupcake flavor, but this category cereal boasts a berry Perv faction with sparkling edible glitter. So if that's not a literal glow up than I don't. No. What is that sounds very good to me? I I wonder berry flavored cereals have become much more interesting to me since. I had the wildberry fruit loops which were so delicious. And and I would hope that this would be sort of along those lines anything that gets me closer to the Smurfs berry crunch, which I had a child. Enjoy again, you know, it's crazy that you mentioned that because the color palette is sort of like a mixture of the same vibrant hues gun the the really pink rings and some some Smurfs in blue sprinkles as well, which are maybe that's the glitter. It's not really clear, but it's really not alter not clear what edible glitter how that's just different from sugar. So it's kinda just potato potato. But there's. I don't know if it'll be worth getting a short term Sam's Club membership for but. Cata corn fans, you're gonna do it. Right. Dan. You know, it's funny. I actually a PR blast about this and got a sample off of it. And it was already delivered apparently last week in stolen off my porch. The first time I've ever had a package stolen, and it was cata corn cereal. So some be too wild to tame. I guess. What else is going on the news? So trader Joe's snuck a new serial on the shelves as well. They're one of the one of the companies that really just likes to put them out there and wait for the response. But this turned up in sort of a Reddit threat. I believe where I I saw put their trader Joe's Neopolitan puffed cereal. And you gotta go to seriously done that and see this box. I was so many cereal boxes have sue little artistic perspective or share sort of like just targeted at kids. Very utilitarian. This this the Apollo puff cereal is cool as heck? Yeah. I mean, if feel like many mainstream sort of cereal boxes are really just character dominated in the rest of the scenery's built around it. But trader Joe's stripping away, the sort of anthro more physician by get that right out of the equation, really? Makes it a blank canvas for something. Really seventies. Inspired in this case. A lot of the the Neopolitan Hughes amped up to eleven but the cereal itself. Just kind of looks like the cocoa puffs ice cream scoops that came out not too long ago. And when I first saw these I kinda thought it would be the exact same cereal until you see the little bubble at the top of the box that says it's made with beans and Brown rice instead of sort of the typical cocoa puffs corn. I don't really know how I feel about this. Because every time I've had been cereal in the past. It was impossible for me to call it a cereal I had to call it a bean cereal because you you really can't get the lagoon aftertaste out of your mind when eating at any point. So I don't know if all over make it to trader Joe's to try this one it's a bit of a hike for being based cereals. But if that's up your alley might be worth it there any good options that you've found for like ordering cereals online is just one stop shop or better served as like going to the retailer. So. Yeah. I don't think he'd probably get much better than like, a grocery delivery service. And then just buying a bunch of cereal. If you are looking for like new serials do tend to be people who I say scalp, but it's actually a reasonable price for someone who wants to try new serials on EBay, just if you wanna get that one and done out of there, and you have a little money to blow just for the cost of like a blockbuster rental. You could be buying a new serial. Can I devote will divergence for a second? Speaking of this cereals, I wanna to try. I wanna talk about privee refl cereal that I found this week. This news to me, I was in target and over with the toys, I found a box of buddy, the elf of fun co pop serial who and this is so interesting as I said found a box of cereal, I was target. Don't get folks kicking under the shows. It is that is what a with. Anyway, the buddy the elf cereal. What is that flavor on the buddy the l zero? It is the strangest mine was a little stale taste a little stale. I know I mean, it's February and Christmas movie, but that fit a little bit put it was. Did you try? It was the. The strangest I was like a cherry flavor to the buddy the elf zero. It was so weird. Well, in my experience of a believe every funk cereal is the same flavors. So that what I have not tried buddy. The elf cereal. I had one of the Cup head cereals for review not too long ago, which I really just bought that one because the the Syria was black and a lot of gastrointestinal complications there. But that's a different story. As for the flavor. I I think Jerry's not a bad word. I kind of took it more as like sour tricks than anything. Okay. Yeah. But it's not really the best. It's really more of a a coffee table peace than a functional cereal. We last week talked about Honey branches of. Chicken and waffles. Cereal. But they added another to that cereal day lineup, right? Oh, yes. I think we teased it perhaps in the last episode, but it has been confirmed that for national cereal day, which is March seventh again. Post and Honey bunches of oats will be releasing alongside chicken waffle, cereal, a maple bacon donuts cereal. So this one kind of it appears to lex or the geometric complexity of chicken and waffles. There's just the actual Donut ring pieces some flakes and then little tiny clusters. But I think this is definitely the tamer option of the two. And I don't know why they didn't really lead the new cycle with this one. It's not gonna make the impact, you know. You're not gonna get on Instagram with maple bacon Donut cereal. That's true. I think probably the one thing that there was me off most about it is this the prominent placement of a pig on the box. Don't I don't know if it's the most tasteful way to sell people on bacon in their sweet breakfast product. It didn't really work for the maple bacon. Pop tarts. They came out. I don't know if you tried those but just kind of that interjection of artificial smoke. I'm hoping it's a little bit more. Offensively Piccari smoked or whatever than. Bentley farm animal. I. The thing is tripping out most about this serial, and I'm trying to draw beat on it. But looking at the sort of box shot though yet, but it looks like we are blending flakes and rings that possibly be right? I don't think it's that out of the question. I mean as challenging I don't know that that I find that very unsettling. Just sort of the textual mishmash. You mean? Yeah. It's weird. Right. You think of itin to think of flakes as losing crunch acidy at a more accelerated pace than rings? So I feel like bushy rings and are sorry bushy. Flakes crunchy rings sounds so strange. I mean, I hear you on that. But I think if you're eating a maple bacon Donut cereal, you've kind of forsaken all hesitation at the door. True. You're probably getting down the down quick. You know, there's there's deeper problems there in the slop. Steeper prowls in the slop. I swear Dan every week. You have a new way of putting things I feel like it's gonna stick with me. I live last week. It was. Stack up spoon Colladay and call today. I honestly can't eat cereal anymore without thinking that curse myself. Streaky of cereal that you have eaten. Let's talk about Honey bunches of oats, apple caramel crunch. That's how I mean. I say that is it appealing title. I mean, if you thought trader Joe's was sort of surprise cereal dropper making it appear on shelves. Honey, bunches of oats is probably better at it. They couple years back. They just brought back chocolate Honey bunches of oats randomly, which was amazing. And then they brought a pecan and maple Brown sugar. One last year two out of the blue and blew me away. And now for twenty nineteen it seems we're following the theme by getting this apple caramel crunch, which I was really excited about from the get-go given that apple caramel gets like no play in the serial compared to apple cinnamon. So I was really excited to see how they would actually do this. Because the only other caramel, apple cereal. I know of was the the pebbles boulders that came back several years prior really deep cut there. But. I tried this one, and I was definitely impressed. But I don't know if it necessarily lives up to the title because the whole time that I was eating it. I didn't think of care Mel I certainly thought of apples because there's a good amount of the little dried pieces in there too. Good job with that. But they did a great job of getting molasses flavor in there and the ingredients list really confirms that. So usually when I talk about molasses and serial reviews, it means I'm talking about like a gingerbread man sort of flavor because I don't really eat molasses by the spoonful. Right. But when I do I recognize it in a case like this. So if you really into that really niche unique duck sweetness, and then the fruity nece as well. I think you this wanna try I think anyone does. Honestly, I have a problem with. I am not crazy about dehydrated fruits in. Cereal because as breeze slow. They start to rehydrate start thick. It's kind of gross kind of girls. I think this is like strawberry special k in a red berries. Which is we're as Barry star to rehydrate. It's just like not. It's just not pleasant. I fish, and I worry about this for the the hydrogen apples. It's kind of like those those foam capsule to watered. But I don't think it is much of a concern here. They the apple pieces are surprisingly small. So I could probably trick your mouth out of them. Let's let's stay in the orchard in talk very briefly about crisp apple pop tarts. I mean, I thought you said there'd be no controversial or difficult statements. But we're going to review a pop tart little bit of diversion. So this was another flavor that surprised me because it really diverts from the recent pop tarts trend of going really really wacky and specific with their flavors like they had the the soda pop flavored pop tarts as well as the jolly ranchers tarts, all of which got more convoluted and really really intense and niche appeal as you try and make it through like the jumbo WalMart sized boxes, which they only sell them for some reason, but a refreshing bite of crisp apple pop tarts reminded me that simplicity is really where it's at because I don't think I've ever eaten Apollo tar and wanted anything more than just that primal raw sweetness and Chris Beppo pop tarts deliver that in spades. It's got that. Sort of granny Smith sourness to it, but not overbearing and really just sort of tempered by the the classic pop. Tarts crust? How would you if you were to stack all pop tart? Into a huge pile. When where in the pile these think that this pop tart would up. Man, if I'm stacking up the pop tarts and really call it a day. I think I would put it probably just below the middle. I mean, there's a lot of sort of legacy tarts from the rich history of the brand that I have to give their true place like risen to the rafters of the stack, but very very impressive showing indefinitely near the top of probably what we've seen in the last five years of pop tarts flavors. I we have one more review here that you've listened the lineup, and that is fiber one strawberries and vanilla clusters. You know, I was I was really interested in talking about this. When it first because we do get a lot of questions about the best healthy cereals that are out there. And I was ready to pitch this one. And then you mentioned not liking sort of the dried fruit texture and yes, cereal. And if you didn't like that in special k, then this would probably drive you wild because fiber one strawberries, and vanilla clusters has just so many dried, strawberries, and they're huge. It's like the complete cross section of a full-sized plump. Strawberry. To sitting amongst these sort of really boring raising brandish flakes. We don't really need to waste words on those. But and a few pockets of these vanilla clusters, which are definitely the highlight of the bunch. They really taste like like yoghourts if you remember those pouches, but you have to they're more of those because the strawberries themselves are sort of a beast to be reckoned with the very authentic there bit tart their texture yen is challenging especially in milk. But the key here is to get a ratio of flakes too. The strawberries to really offset that texture with a more pleasant one on if you do that. I think this is a good way to maybe get the fiber back into a serial died that may be lacking. I find it too. Good mixer as well like with the Cap'n crunch strawberry shortcake crunch, which is kind of disappointing on its own this serial can add that, you know, real pop authenticity. I think. In our last segment, we like to cut loose a little bit and stop taking everything so darn seriously and. A free period and this week we are going to be. Discussing challenging question. A lot of people have sort of brought to our desk and wanted to to try to knock it out one fail swoop, and that is serial mixes combining one to two cereals, you can't buy one zero. So at least two possibly more, Dan. Do you have a favorite cereal combo? Yeah. There's really this episode really seems to be the theme of me bringing up things that you just said you you weren't into because my go-to combination is what I like to call Honey bunches of cheerio, it's which is a very simple mixture of fifty percent, Honey, bunches of oats and fifty percent a corresponding Cheerios flavor because I find in most cases with the Honey bunches, you can find a respectable analog in the Cheerios kingdom. So I was kinda staying a little quiet earlier when you were asking about the rings in the flakes together because I secretly love it. Dan. Yeah. These complex textural contrast. They're just really exciting for a pal at that's been, you know, it's cut its teeth on the same thing over and over again, I like that variety. I would not this may be a little bit sheet. But I think. Broadly. Speaking granola added to pretty much any cereal that is in the non fruit world can can improve it like I'm not talking about your fruit. Loops free pebbles tricks. But I think a sort of like flake based or a serial circles the like circles that kind of vibe granola is a really nice like extra crunchy counterpoint that can really just kick the nutritional value, right? And it's teeth and really amp up the calories and the sugar. What's one of your favorites? Probably specific maybe granola and cereal combos. The best. I can remember is. Blueberry morning, which I love those like that whole great, grains, sort of area of of cereals that are like. No question like the worst for you like almost certainly nutritionally speaking like the worse, you could be eating baffling amounts like Pooh bear morning. I just looked at the judicial in a survey morning. It's two hundred eighteen calories which is the nose innovation twice. What you would get from any other cereal. I mean seventeen grams of sugar in a survey, which if you were to compare that to like fruity pebbles, you'd be talking about like six less grams of sugar than than that. And one hundred twenty calories it's like so wild but Buber morning with some. No one there or. Cheerios. Apple cinnamon Cheerios with granola like delicious, the one that. I I is not a serial is not combining cereals, but is my favorite Nixon is like really dark chocolate chips. All my God. Very few serials are not improved by with a sprinkling of very dark chocolate chips. I mean, pretty much anything is better that such as spiral because I've done the same thing. And I immediately every time I eat cereal after that. I can't help. But think there's no reason to not put chocolate chips in this. Like, it wouldn't make it better obvious reason. Which is yeah, you know, your continued existence on this planet. Also, give it a try with a crackling oat, bran and really just compound the band nutrition facts. Yeah. Quake squares another one for me. Like, I love and has a vibe of healthiness fairly late in life. But it is it is miserable for you. Gather stating two hundred twelve calories per Cup a little bit on the sugar. But. But it's not a mixer. So I don't want to get outside the scope of the conversation. Dan. This has been so pleasant as usual talking with you where can people find more of your work, if they would very wisely like to ingest some of it? WWW dot Syria. Lists Lee dot net. I will. I would like you to know because I will not get credit for it. Did not come to fruition. I did put an offer on Syria. Let's dot com for your. Grizzly board. I appreciate it. To my request. So sadly, we will stay seriously for time Inc. You can also find Arshile show at bowl dot rest. If you wouldn't mind spreading that link around a little bit this week and telling friends yours too that they might enjoy the show. And you know, maybe even we have a system they're pulled out rest where you can donate a little bit show. He was nine nine cents all the way up to ninety nine if you can donate to our show every month half of that goes to keep seriously running half that goes to the Huntington's facing hunger. Food Bank c can help feed hungry people and help helped great cereal site going by donating your money's we appreciate it. And if he'll stand you into a dress Email address, what's our? Yeah. You can send us all questions inquiries, pressing cereal. News bites to mail at bowl dot rest. Folks that is going to do it for so until next time. My name is just macaroni. And I'm dying beer. And as always don't forget to drink the milk.
DeaconLive - Personal Best
"Green City Studio Begin Live Work No yes welcome guys on today's show is history going molly and Tommy a new idea on an old tired restaurant Charlotte area actually we flew out of Was it Douglas Douglas Airport over their insurance flew out and it was a hour flight to Baltimore because we flew southwestern and then it wasn't like a forty five minute jumped to islip which is one of the airports around the long we'll give you guys something here bonus or something like that and I haven't figured it out yet probably figured out here in the next couple of minutes though but we just got back from New York and we left the of school shooters which was it was incredible the stories that they were telling us and they were saying that I'll break real small down for you is they were kind of tells you that is a healthcare good in New York or is it just kind of like you know we're not gonNa make any money so we'll just cut the slim off instead of giving you we're teaching the teachers or telling the teachers to grab books and throw throw them at the at the active shooter to slow him down you know kind of like when you're running through it's not protect the kids protect the kids it was training for when the kids get shot like this is a inevitably going to happen you know how to pack a wound don't don't tie off a wound we didn't know about that was going on in the New York area and we learned a lot we have all these available for you if you're part of the member members only section of a prophet radio the taxes that that's the now that wasn't exciting but it's it's fun to hear all the stuff that you know little town hall meetings and stuff that goes on so that was new we went to New York and it was exciting every day don we we actually talked to a couple of schoolteachers that were telling us you know they're getting ready for the new school year is getting ready to start and some of the training that they had to go through for like the hospitals talk to some people were there and I didn't know I didn't realize that most of the hospitals if not all the hospitals in the area in New York are nonprofit so the okay I'll tell you what if there wasn't a pizza or a loaf of bread or coal cuts or something that we ate at one meal we ate it for every meal why are you how's everyone doing how's everything going and one thing we like to do here right when we start all the hands above the head and big stretch oh the Aaron packet with something a sock a shirt or a wound would stop the bleeding and it was just crazy stuff like that and know few years back they were saying that one school was given the chase scenes where the bad guys trying to get away and the and the good guys are trying to follow him and they go through the back of the Chinese restaurant and they flip everything over to slow him down slow the cops down go to the members only section sign up and you get all that material that we had over in New York we talked to let's see oh I got my notes right here why don't you read the notes obscene and it was really weird and then we talked to we sat on not sat on of what we went to a couple of town hall meetings and in the local area they were talking about redoing their who we D- Goliath has just gotten back from our trip to New York and I know the podcast was a little bit late and I Apologize For all that Night Ellen area and that's where we spent most of our time up there in the Long Island Area Deacon live at a couple of shows we've met a bunch of people who talked to a lot of a lot of great lot of interesting people a lot of different things the same thing you know you want to slow the shooter down and that was her trading I was like Oh but also available on the members only section of private radio and we also went through well every meal every meal was either pizza or dough or some kind of pasta or sarcoma some kind of cold cut sandwich or we went out to dinner a couple of times like all the teachers rocks to throw at the active shooter to slow him down and everyone laughed you know mocked and that schools idea but literally these schools in Long Island so that we met up there actually took us out to dinner which was nice and it was a fun trip we met a lot of new fans out there a lot of old fans that we've seen before and I just wanted to say thank you everyone vitamin D can live out to New York Long Island area and we can go to your talent as well and we do a the seven days we can come around and do all the stuff and talk about all this stuff kind of like the back from New York 'cause I whatever reason I didn't I didn't bring a laptop up there my wife had her laptop but it doesn't have all my stuff on it I thought I could get away with just doing everything through was it tourist department if you if you want us to come out and tore your city and we'll talk about you on the air it's kind of an even if you just got a couple of local shops and stuff will come out to your tablet my phone and I forgot some stuff but I was going over the numbers and just to let you guys know all you listeners out there we appreciate each and every one of you again I I apologize is for being laid on this podcast and you know what I'm going to do for you if you email me Deacon at Prophet Radio Dot Com I'll send you some free swag all you gotTa do is put Free Live podcast over there and then I'm GonNa go through Real Quick Charlotte of course New York City Buffalo Phoenix La and San Francisco appreciate you guys out there on the West Coast backup everything and move everything around you know pick up the dogs from the Kennel and trying to get caught up here on the France but I wanted to go over some of the numbers with you guys real quick Ireland Leisa that's what we did up in New York so how are you know Ari ashes and stuff one thing I do want to say speaking how are you I'd like to thank each and every one of you I was going over the numbers when we Gimme the actual number just shows the locations of of worse on his downloaded the Deacon live podcast over Manchester actually the UK Manchester is downloaded have you guys out there you can find us on Iheartradio he can find us on spotify you can do all that stuff makes you subscribe to us and do all this have I done enough self promoting how I've done enough lag in the subject and then put your address down and also something out to you and for for the podcast being late so I apologize for that I know I got back I'm doing laundry doing laundry and trying to just give me rain will come out there and hang out with no problem and also Eugene Oregon so we're getting those fly over states as well so if you're saying it mind the only no there's plenty the only reason why I'm doing all the self promoting is because we're trying to get on to broadcast with China you know why not nba you know you see all the stuff with NBA in the movie stars and takes and all the stuff China's the big market China is huge for the United States as far as getting your message out there and getting a product out there to a large quantity of people I just want to touch on the political the political sorry I want to touch on the broadcast getting our broadcasts out there to China and I'm just being it's a farce I'm just being silly Komo technically don't they really not really have much to do in China other than make our shirts toys and what I mean look at everything that Walmart mates or has they don't make it it's there is money nonetheless suspend China's huge market and as far as them being free and not free I'm not going to get into the sorry not going to get into the political aspects of that and don't forget if you can go to the profit radio website and that's P. R. O. P. H. ET RADIO DOT com if you wanna be heard or you want to comment on because everyone's freaking out about it everyone's freaking out about it it was like if China shut down the whole United States would go broke but we did it to ourselves I think for the most part so I'm just trying to that other stuff whether it's right or wrong or who am I to say whether it's right or wrong that's when an opinion is I think a very smart man once said on opinions like assholes everyone's got one you know so oh what did you mean by that and what did you do about this now I'm GonNa talk about some other stuff here on the show that you might want to chime in about so I'm hoping to stir your noodle there and get your opinion on all made in China made in China made in China so they got nothing else to do they're working twenty four hours a day for like three days straight and then they they cut money to spend now it's not a whole lot of money any of the stuff that we've done here on past Ponca just clip be heard is low blue bar it's the only blue thing on the page and click on that opens the microphone on your desktops all right when we come back I'm going to get into us being altogether and what does that mean for us as a society of going backwards as far as us all smartphone tablet whatever you got access your microphone I'm not GonNa listen to you believe me I got enough shit to do like I said that a million times and just leave us a message saying hey alone here in the United States is live right here on Prophet radio I'll be right back welcome back to my weird broadcasting live from the Queen City studio broadcast you see all the kids I say all the kids you see all these people that are on twitch and Youtube and they're playing the game and they comment on it and they do all the stuff well I've gone kicking tooth and nail whatever the the slogan is to not get a playstation for my wife bought me one no problem so now I've gotten to the point playing the Games and stuff that I'm ready to do a live the Queen City studio at four seven four four eight eight eight zero zero and makes you follow us on all our social networks and our page and a twitter and instagram and all that stuff Musa October you'd think a couple of things you think cool weather you think Halloween What else do you think of in October I don't know when this happened but in God's will and yet there does seem to be some questions touching me like this oftentimes surrounding twelve God's will often find that on profit radio DOT com you know one thing I have been doing it and I've been having a little bit of fun with it is I have a playstation for I dragged myself Dave what's next you're listening to the line grabbing what the Kellogg's intention is why does cereal came out Kellogg's is doing this in support of glads Spirit Day glad spirit you know an hour or two here in an hour or two there and I I sit down and I play the the playstation and I live broadcast it on youtube so if you want to be a part every day is a national thing in every week's got a national thing so October is national? LGBT awareness month of course they picked the scariest there's a of November so the third week of October it I guess is an full week like what if the first falls on a Friday Saturday Sunday Monday than the Monday it would be the fourth and then that would be would that be considered week number one I don't know the third Thursday is easy to remember for Thanksgiving the third week full week I wanted to check it out so just go to search deacon live on Youtube and makes you subscribe him follows as well so now one thing that's going on October now into the field now and what it is is in between the podcast daily choice that I have here on the Franch- there's some downtime in between number two box of cereal did he just he just got up celtics has come out with a a new box of cereal and has called the altogether cereal this is a small video and Kelloggs different serials like frosted flakes fruit loops rice krispies raisin brands frosted mini wheats and corn of that if you want to see some of the Funny Shenanigans that I do on the playstation floor now the game a play call of duty World War Two and it's just I'm just out there running around making fun of Half Week I don't know they got to be a little bit more together on this serial wearing the color purple is a way to support all the Lgbtq community Oh break it's like you know black history month February I think Latin history is GonNa get your phone calls it's either March march it you know it's it's now coming up to the service that October is now. LGBT now see I'm not in a community LGBT month which means you know on Spirit Day now on Spirit Day because I thought Purple Representative I think it's not autism it's something else there's something else that's purple we all belong together cereal the color purple it's a really Nice Shavkat got some nice gradients on it and it does feature all the mascots April I forget I don't want to say because I don't want to lump in Cinco de Mayo thing oh it's gotta be may cause it's probably is mad I don't know but October is now and who makes it but there's a bag of chips that are out there that has like doritos pretzels cheetos all in one bag it's like all the crap when the Pallets Bust often bring you chapter twelve most of us just moment will be reading that one question for you have you or forgot when you could respond anyone you know ever had questions about we've all at one time or another question around got real a check by two thousand dollars hey we're doing something doing something I don't know they're blending all the cereals together and calling it and we're all together to promote not bullying located just outside of Charlotte in a little town we like to call Dr Swell could give us a call at the station at any time at four zero seven four four eight eight eight zero Texas live at any time likes cereal mascots Tony The tiger so I think what they've done is thrown all these the cereals all one ball I'm looking at the ball right now if you're watching us on the EH is always observed in the third week of October and it's used as a way to speak out against LGBTQ bullying and harassed Smith that the LGBTQ community may face so I misspoke it it's not the whole month the third week it's kind of like Thanksgiving is always like the for donation to glad to support their efforts wait wait did he say fifty th a generous fifty thousand dollars fifty thousand dollars so you awesome me you've got millions of millions of boxes of cereal and you are literally paying fifty thousand dollars to the the glad pop Jesus on the box together they're holding hands and smiling just showing that symbolism of belonging together this is a really nice no mandatory scheduled to teach the history not literally the history of LGBT in schools but some of the schools are now saying channel under the tent you see all the mascots and stuff all she is fruit loops shredded we and maybe some rice krispies in their self worth. It's Kinda like that I forget. LGBT community and something that's got us all confused speaking of bullying something that's got us all confused I say all confused a lot of us are you aware that they are now in writing the history books hey guess what member Benjamin Franklin yeah he was gay not that he was gay I'm just saying but they're going back through the history books and they're they're tagging it all one ben and they go what are we doing all these bins of mix cereal guess what no bully no bullying too can Sam snap crackle and promotion tie in because Kellogg's inches doing this as a cash grab maybe they are maybe they aren't they aren't making a very generous fifty thousand Hawes here with everything that they're trying to do that doesn't make sense Y se doesn't make sense that just shows they don't have a whole lot of support behind it in the warehouse they kind of just sweep it all in one thing and shove it in a bag it's all the busted busted stuff from all the the and that's what this is I think all the busted boxes from different cereals they just the lgbt not lessons but who is lesbian gay bisexual transsexual throughout history welcome to elementary the rewriting history the way it was I mean granted you know there's an old old saying that says only the winners of wars right the history books cool where in California the law requires a fair accurate inclusive and respectful treatment of lesbian gay bi and transsexual Americans I think lean atoms now I don't understand why it says that they have to they have to include the sexual preference of each person behind their name like you know gay person month but the scariest thing but that's just my opinion that's just my opinion and what's scary is Kellogg's has come out with a special commander commitment people is gay out themselves or the conclusion lacked evidence in secondly these courses are not optional meaning parents cannot doubt that means your kids are being taught deep purple on the trees you're not allowed to hunt in that area but and the Thai maybe you're not allowed to lgbt you've got the purple into their cereal and made the new box for the of American publisher faced certain prejudices state required publishers like Mark Jarrett to include the sexual preferences of prominent historical figures among others activists because the losers of course Arnon around to to write it so here we are now writing they're rewriting history books it's controversial because some publishers we're not comfortable identified Sally Ride Blah Blah Blah astronaut and stuff like that I mean when do we stop you know when they say let's all get together let's all get along then we but yet we're still labeling people and putting them I mean you're little it's not enough to learn history without confusing the people that are I mean these youngsters these kids Ab- and then throw sexual preference publishers who refused Jarrett's taxed for eighth graders in it he refers to stagecoach driver Charley Parkhurst as a woman who identified as a man Baron von Steuben who helped Washington thing you go back so far it's allegedly allegedly he was gay just because he didn't have a wife or he didn't have a partner or anything like that we should say then he never married he had a very good friend who was living with him he may have been gay on the other hand I know at least ten or fifteen guys that that have never been married in have a friend it's called a roommate that they live with because they are for whatever reason they're they're they're not established they don't have a good job or they spend their money I'm just saying I mean that's that's now a lot of support behind I mean Kellogg's can say here's fifty thousand dollars a kid you're bothering me type thing so they through the Liane frivolous things and they have a roommate are they now at that time being gay was seen as something evil and wrong the state approved forge may have been gay poet Walt Whitman Man may have been gay was drawn the young men in parks and dancehalls but denied his same sex preferences inboxes we're putting them in little compartments and now we're trying to justify or or label these people these people a couple episodes go but it's confusing out of the way and just teach about history this person discovered the cotton gin this person discovered electricity this person was the first president now granted mail and is confusing to do all that just let history be history let black and white let's let's you know Spanish Latin community amputee gay lesbian just throw that out is going on here I is An effort to a politicized now this guy could have been he was a little weird looking to make anybody subscribe to be can live wherever you listen to podcasts search label some figures as gay and forced another to insert the word lesbian when referring to astronaut Sally ride why versus because why why do the not can live and please give the nice reviews female this is the first female this is the first president or first female this first female that I can understand that does it stop where does it stop I don't I don't know throw in Lesbian Sally ride what if she had like one arm missing amputee sally right and and what if she was a lesbian an-and amputee lesbian amputee less we come back I'm GonNa talk about some spooky things that people are talking about and some real ideas behind so stick around you'll listen live right here on property I'll be right back hey we're not saying the incident agenda we're not saying that these people are better than other people what we're saying is the writer the guy who does the books this is another group listen to the best new rock here on radio stick around we'll be right back all other like they're talking to emily let's see them writers Emily Dickinson and then you'll Hawthorne and President James Buchanan though evidence is inconclusive see that's the radio well there you go there you go whereas us up I don't know where it stops but guess what's GonNa Coming up Halloween Halloween coming up right around the corner can't stop that from happening how do I say this politely well I've talked about it before you know there's there's this group of people that are like the between the ages of forty and fifty they've been divorced and in public much of this is speculation is not good history yeah it it's it's not good history if you start saying stuff like this and then sexy Halloween costume dead and gone gone and dead is is it out the doors at like hey grow up stop me stop being a whore you know they were saying a single again and and now they're dressing like horse and their dressing like Jim UC says my wife would say but I haven't seen as much anymore I've seen the facebook feeds are out there somewhere I was reading someone was protesting about that Oh the people in this neighborhood the people in the neighborhood were complaining about the sexy Mr Roger I didn't see the picture scene in pulp fiction where John Travolta gets his I forget what kind of car it is I think it's either fairlane or GTO and he gets it out of storage I they outside a little town we like to call Marshall before I continue on what like to think some of the people some of the restaurants out there that had us kind of catered to us at Deacon live and that is you're listening to live right about ten days out or a little under ten days out and you know normally this week I betcha what I'd I guarantee you right now this weekend is a weekend that everyone has the Halloween the PJ lobster house over import Jefferson we had some great food they like like a fish market on one side and then the food on the other side and we had a good time there also rum mostly for the kids for the most part now granted you know Halloween is another what ten days out from where we at what today's date while I look here on the screen so they yeah it is a shot and you can see these videos now watch this there's no sound to it so here comes this woman she's got one of those some women carry them on their keychains it's Kinda the it's at long a desert as bagels over and sheldon supply breakfast for us and also banker tes supplied most of the pastries that we had for Deacon live while we're out there parties and everyone shows up in their their hor outfits sexy nurse I'm a sexy thing was it Mr Rogers there is a sexy Mister Rogers outfit I guess I'm for a while that the Halloween costumes for adults or the getting to be more adult holiday than a than a kids holiday you know the people that are like I don't know why why why would you be Tesla car they're saving the environment is it because of the price and what you hear this article too I'll in tweets a halloween ride here for charitable and that'll happen here in the next two weeks for the local equine rescue center that were part of one thing that scary it's you know there's uh-huh by now she's a composite right here she's a larger woman and I don't want to say that she's young she's probably mid twenties maybe late twenty you just heard in borrow from somewhere else but one thing that is scare you can go through all the Halloween haunted houses on Halloween this and that stagecoach rise we were doing he's early thirties maybe she's got like an adidas shirt on and some running pants maybe she just got done working out little good power to her but she walks by always coming around scary time of year is scary are you guys ready are you in a scary you know what I'm not seeing as much anymore on the facebook feeds and makes you follow us on facebook I think is change she walked by this car now what I didn't know is Tesla has about nine nine twelve nine cameras around the vehicle itself watching it at all times so this woman Camman proper radio gives call here the station at four zero seven four four eight eight eight zero zero we're live from the Queen City Studio located just outside of Charlotte North Carolina and it'd be edge when he got home that's when he decided to test his car's newest feature nine motion capturing cameras placed in several strategic places and then found one where and why can I get you out of my head and why do people all of a sudden hate tesla all these questions and topics will be discussed on this episode of Deacon live in Long Island area and banks is located over incinerate who we were eight so much damn food over there okay Tesla and literally just takes the key or that thing and scratches down the side of the Tesla car and then gets in her car and takes off why is possession is his two thousand eighteen tesla model three he uses it to commute everywhere in never had a problem until Saturday morning when he parked at Legacy High School for in high school thing in my day back in ninety s and then it just went away but unless you have like a eventual lover and you could tell how angry someone is uh-huh by in scratches at now there's a thing going around I don't know how it started a why it started or or what the case is but there's a lot of cars out there now now this is another tesla car that's been keeps daughters nearby soccer game you can feel like down to bare metal and you can see it's scratched all the way completely threw the paint tweedy says he found the tesla that are being damaged literally like they're walking by and scratching him now on what you watch this video would you go to Youtube type in Deacon live all one word or something like that and here she comes with her actual key in the side walked all the way up very angry very purposeful you know definitely trying to conceal it you can see yeah maybe what sand it down but then you could tell when someone really hate someone I mean they really gouge the side of car and just write down in the metal and just like the shavings a woman distinctly came around with a key in her hand again it's a it's a larger woman maybe big women don't like Tesla's because I can get in McCain Fordham Chrysler million dollars fight that's like solid metal that they use you're going to be attacked like if you're a single woman or just a woman walks into dark places and stuff or even like places she's got it on her soundbite hip tweedy was shocked he says he doesn't recognize the woman or know why she did it but says there's no way it was random now let's funny keying cars was like black box some hose this report when they keep your car like if it's a light scratch you know I hate him and I still love them or whatever and it's just a pain like you could buff it out you know sitting at Santa Down Are you scared to flat it off so there's two types of key carton at that I'm promoting king a car but since filed a report with Broomfield police but decided to take matters into his own hands too bigger for a crime like this that so many people are willing to spread it and share the word in trying to help us find it because nobody likes this this is my car but it could be years next because his video of the king now has more than one hundred thousand views on facebook really speaks to the and this and this video here has over a million views so the level aw there's a thing that was going around there's talk a little bit of facebook right now there was a a little one of the Inspirational words Diane Proud to be an American I love my country and I stand beside my president if this causes longtime high school friends to remove me from their friends list than we were not friends expensive car I mean like I said it's trying to save the planet and hear these big LGBT an kidding kidding they're not big LG lgbt unions if you do not like what is my page or what I choose to share scroll on I am not asking for your religious political views I was raised a Christian look I got my point across or in calls anytime at four zero seven four four eight eight zero zero or Texas anytime at that same number inspirational things you always see them all the time inspirational you know have kind in Jesus in Jesus just kind of this and that and behold they are big and they're key in the car so much stuff out there when we come back I was talking about getting in my head I there's sometimes you get something stuck in your head and you don't turn yourself in do the right thing be a better person than you were yesterday when you're gouging side of my car now if you do recognize the woman in this video broomfield police asked that you call their non how it got there or why it's there we come back I'm gonNA explain that a little bit so stick around listen live right here on public radio I'll be right back all this stuff as it happens as I'm talking about it I saw this this inspirational quote setup in it actually says it's got some scary figure to begin with I never tell a true friend to see things away or else everyone has their own opinions and everyone makes their own choices email address and I'll play right here whether you hate it whether you like it whatever the case may be it'll come right here to the radio station all played on the next podcast and you can say hey let's see line and asked for offices go yeah I mean this is Broomfield in Colorado so this and the other one was here in Charlotte the woman with the Anita Shirt on so yeah people are taking they can eat a writer first and foremost this is my facebook page. What I choose to post does not require anyone's comments welcome back you're listening to dig alive makes you follow on our twitter pages all our social pages in some way do that as go to profit radio DOT COM oh normal experts say are ghosts watching you sleep now of course they're gonna say that because there's no scientific proof that there's an afterlife there's no sign typic- proof that there's anything outside of is open heart starts beating brain stops moving and then there's nothing no no proof no proof okay E. T. radio DOT COM and make sure you click on the be heard section I know probably brother ruffling probably ruffled some feathers the past couple it does and Miller hits geeked slash worked for him You're listening to the mark the ones that says Taco Tuesdays much better than any pumpkin spice and I'll I'll fight you to the grave on that something when it makes sense you know everyone brags about the pumpkin spice but I think Taco Tuesday would trump that in any court of law now one thing that I did see screens for you make sure you follow us on Youtube to the others and being natural to the bub-bubba garbage they're all harm at hallmark cards and they drive me insane especially those people out there just that's all they post teams are faces of ghosts that are watching you while you're sleeping did catch on on that so the people that you see in your dreams a hard technically what they both love and tender just make up your own words make up your use your own can you tell it bothers me just make up your own inspirational thought or or stuff I like the I like the funny cream are not they're not people watching you that dead that stupid they're actually in the room with you but you've gained these images destroy your everyday life of a walking around revenge revenge or just going up against Tesla cars so you guys out there that have trusted cars and I wanNA get one you know is it is because of the Eh did and and if I if I've stirred your pot let's put it that way I'll go to the beach section and Click on be heard and leave us a message comes right to my somewhere someone has either smiled or had some kind of emotional feature on their face your mind unconsciously grabbed it and locked it in it's what they call the pictures are of like a goofy face an angry face or happy face her or some kind of emotion people to go back through those faces again would recognize the emotional in a study that was shown if you show one hundred faces to a person and some of the faces just blank dead on stare and then fifty fifty having a dream or whatever you you plug in these unknown faces to your dream so when I see the paranormal experts say that people in your dreams that you don't recognize awesome probably GonNa get flagged for that stupid thing but yeah I mean that's the scene from wizard of Oz and it is her family was the scarecrow the tin man the cowardly lion there's in some you know it's all the spirit of Halloween it says the human brain cannot make up faces in your dreams paranormal experts say that unfamiliar faces you see to the forefront right now so think about say back in June and July the big buzz the hot topic the pit bull the religion are horrible segue but I mean for the most part something that's gone away at we don't even recognize anymore recognize that it has gone away but I'm GonNa bring it in my opinion but think about it so you have these parents single mothers single father whatever the case may be they have the child summer break so the kids out of school kids out of school now you've got one more responsibility during your day as a single parent or some you know single MOMS singled out whatever that you you weren't expecting so it's kind of there was then it's all big hope anyways but I mean that's how paranormal people make their money they it's it's a big game Kinda game now something that you don't know when's the last time you heard about kids being lifting cars are sweltering heat and all that stuff now I I did see one I will admit I did seat not actual kid in the car but line and the the wizard and so she was you know the dreamscapes that's what you do your mind brings in these these outside pictures and if you have 'em don't you hear about anymore and in my opinion and I want to hear yours if you've got a profit radio DOT com click on the be heard section here here's kind of like my opinion this is just when the addiction the you know the hot topic button in the summertime is kids being lifting cars now here we are in October store and that's what's happening people are going to the store and they're forgetting the kids in the back and they're they're forgotten kids you don't see that anymore so I mean what kind of parenting aces before they recognize the blank stare faces because it kind of puts an imprint on you now somewhere in your time you know whether you go to Walmart you go to the mall you go the gas station or pick up your kids okay so you don't know so this is the same thing basically by response to the post was the faces the unfamiliar faces that you see in your all cam log I just saved a catalog that's what is Cadillac and here's a prime example are you familiar with this movie here structure there that's missing or some kind of I don't want to say routine there's a joke going around about new says we'll put something important in the back of your car like take your left shoe off they're not stacked on top of the journey and
[BONUS] Humble the Poet | Music Month
"And. Today. We're continuing with our special music in may Thursday episodes, super excited. My guest is Toronto raised former elementary school, teacher turned rapper spoken word artist. Poet, international bestselling author humble, the poet, though, his former students used to just know him as Mr. Singh. He's performed concerts and festivals around the world, including little places like lollapalooza and now pretty much splits his time between Toronto and Los Angeles. So in today's conversation, which I probably describe as fiercely honest, wide ranging. We take a deep dive into not only his journey from teaching music and rapping video spoken word, but also how his experience as the child of immigrants being raised in the sick tradition. And in his words, kind of not seeing anyone else in the music world who looked like him how that all really shaped his lens on possibility on his stories and his. Voice and his values. And we dive into a series of moments and really honest, awakenings often painful reckonings that woke him up to how he wanted to live his life and devote himself to his craft and his vocation in addition to his music, humble also has a great new book out that distills one hundred one short and sweet insights for better living called unlearn that you definitely want to check out. And as with all of our music, episodes Hummel shares, a bit of a musical, offering at the end this time in the form of a spoken word piece, which you don't wanna miss too short, you sticking around for the whole conversation. So excited to share this with you on Jonathan fields, and this is good life project. So you wanna grow your business. Now, what won't male chimps got you covered with their all in one marketing platform. It lets you manage more of your marketing activities from a single place, so you can market smarter and grow faster than the coolest thing is that it basically eliminates the need for multiple tools by giving you everything you need to create and publish and manage, and measure multichannel campaigns. It's powered by a marketing CRM so you can collect an organized understanding act on all of your audience data. It lets you get pretty close to psychic with your customers, let you know who to talk to what to say when to say it, and the best channel to deliver the message the all in one marketing platform has everything you need to start marketing your business today, and they'll be there to help as your business grows and needs new capabilities now. What mail chimp? That's what learn more at mail. Chimp dot com. So you're ready to downsize at chase. They get it. You've had the garage sale. You've shipped the last kid off to college. You've even sold your old house. Wait, you sold your house? Where are you going to live, relax? Chase has your back as chase customer. You're guaranteed to close on your next home quickly. Or you get one thousand dollars so you can skip the storage unit and crashing on your son's food ton. Chase gets you in your next home faster. Learn more at chase dot com slash good life chase. Make more of what's yours. All home lending products, are subject to credit and property approval rates program. Terms and conditions are subject to change without notice, not all products, are available in all states or for all amounts. Other restrictions and limitations apply. Home lending products, offered by J, P Morgan, Chase Bank and a an equal housing lender. Curious when the threads of what you're doing now. Your earliest recollection when is stored to reveal itself, I was in the third grade, and I wrote a book called revenge of the teacher, and there was a fictional book about my third grade teacher picking each and every one of the students off in a fit of revenge and actually killing them. And having a very creative way to kill each them. And it was heavily influenced by FREDDY Krueger than everybody's the movies. Get everybody's dreams uniquely killed everybody those kind of inspired by that. It didn't raise any flags. Didn't have to see any special doctors therapists because of it. Nobody back then in the eighties. Nobody is really worried about it. And I read it and the kids loved it, because they were all included in the book, you know, every student in my class was a character in my story. Right. And I think it was the first time I shared something. And you know, first-rate week did request that. I read it in obviously just knowing that, you know, an idea that I had was being celebrated. And I'm sure it touched upon people's just hearing their name being read out loud, and it being surreal. You're eight years old, from that perspective, I think that was the first time I started having unique ideas and DEA creativity before creativity was even something I knew about writings many stories as possible concocting things. But at the same time, we really focusing a lot on math. You know, it was really good with numbers always thought I'd be doing something in that world. And, you know, creativity, I didn't see anybody that looked like me. So that really at that point, it wasn't disheartening just just didn't assume you know, you see tall people playing basketball. You see, you know, you see people into Disney channel what they look like they don't look like your talk like you're watchful house. You know, see families that look like you're so you don't assume that this is what you do. And you know, probably middle school start. Listen to more music, you know. Want to make my own music and coming up with my own songs, and different things and everything was there and everything just existed in my head. And you know, when even when I first started releasing music, and I was. Past the age of twenty five. At this point, I did it quietly on YouTube than show, my face, you know, made lyric videos, and it wasn't until people started recognizing my voice, and mainly have heard that voice before. Oh, that's that guy. I met him was at that party. And then coming up to me being like a guy doing the stuff they put my name, some of the work, I talk about important things that were happening in the South Asian community in Toronto specifically in Vancouver and just the areas that I knew things that were on my chest. And with the idea that, you know, at this point, I was working as a schoolteacher, you know, at this point, I understood that if a kid doesn't get it is because we're not explaining it to them, properly and understanding that whenever child and understand a concept that we're teaching them. We have to reevaluate our method of teaching it, not think about what's wrong with the child, because there's so many different learning styles. And I realized that when people are expressing the frustration with the youth and issues. We were having, and I decided to put that in art and try to connect with them on that level. It ended up, connecting taking the life of its own, and even then I just took it as fun than started going to spoken-word events. You know, I've told many people get into the impress the woman, and it was a fun thing to do after work. So I think, you know, finding all of these creating story, I remember being in university and just kind of, you know, writing a fictional novel in my head and saying, you know, one day, I'll get to it. I'll make this happen. And I started to realize that, you know, this, this wasn't a choice of mine. Everything it was such a natural inkling everything that I did in the opposite direction in one way or another. Somebody threw a monkey wrench in it just to try to get me back on this path. So, you know for me. There is really a big question of obsession versus passion. If you're like this is putting words together bringing ideas to life, having a spark in my brain and then seeing it manifest into something tangible like the excitement that, that brings me has been a common thread in. My entire life. And now I'm in a position to do it full time. And I'm so blessed. Yeah. So I mean really touchdown very early usually expressive the creative side use the phrase into people like me doing this type of stuff out there sitting across from you and knowing your background. I think I know what you're talking about. But for those listeners who are not from with who you are what your background is not staring looking at you right now. What do you mean by that? So I have a very handsome beard and have a very big turban, and I'm Jobe, which is north India, part of north India, the state Bunge, Ming five means rivers, open job, people from the five rivers and a big chunk of job now existing in Buxton. So it's a, you know, it's, it's a loose, it's a loose reference to call this Indian, but my parents are from the India side, and they immigrated to Canada in the early nineteen seventies and my father became a cabdriver, even though you had a masters degree. And my mother has some college, but she ended up working in out of different factories. So with my background, not seeing any type of representation, any type of media unless you, you know, saw comedy movie that was making fun of Brown guy for being a cab driver or the Simpsons, having who the quick mar or anybody else in a convenience store, gas station. That's the only time I saw representation, and as a kid, my dad was a cab driver. So it made sense. You know, I wasn't offended. I just, just these were my context like people don't look like me. And I mean even to this day, you know, I'm, I'm probably still one of the most prominent guys with a beard and turban that people will see in mass media. Yeah. I mean I'm curious when you're we now your parents came here. I was born and raised in Toronto guy when day came here, did they kinda come and say, okay, I want to carry all the traditions with me, or do they come and sorta like my decision. Let's see if we can assimilate or something in the middle 'cause I'm only. Fascinated by that. I'm always fascinated by that to feel like those conversations happen, but they don't ever actually happen with the immigrants, and I've written about immigrants spurious, and in my experience with it, and then I had, you know, when somebody brings it up to my father, you know, for him, I feel like it was a lot more. Pragmatic it was like, all right. We're going to come here and we're gonna make money and we're gonna earn and we're going to build a better life, and I don't think he in any way, shape or form thought about the cultural impact. I don't think it even occurred to him that you're going to different country. I think whatever was pragmatic at the time he did. So you like to learn English. All right. Let's learn English. I don't think having a social life was a priority of his even. Now, you know, they're both retired and live, very, very simple lives. So I think from that perspective, you know, his social life was going to be his brothers and his sisters. And you know anybody else from the village or anybody else from up in job or India that he. Came across in while he was in Toronto like his oldest friends are just people that also came out in the seventies, and, you know, and they'll live together and, you know, fifteen people in an apartment until they earn enough money to get their own places and slowly build their own lives. So a lot of my dad's oldest friends from back then, or just whoever was there within the community. So I don't think they felt they probably didn't feel the pressure as much whereas his brothers, his younger brothers. He brought them and they came as teenagers. They I see both did cut their hair in the similarly, and I feel like that was because they were school. So maybe the pressure my father came, I think, in his early twenties. Right. So he was kinda pass that moment. Yeah, I think I think he had finished university already back home. So he had come immediately joined the workforce, and probably the jobs. He was getting working in factory was probably working in a lot of jobs that were just full of immigrants to begin with probably not feeling in need to kind of fit in a blending when I grew up, actually didn't have my hair grown. My mom used to cut my hair. I was a little bowl cut kid or mushroom cut and my father were turban. I didn't. And that always confused me like you know why does he like that? And I look like this and I think maybe they, they made an effort to try to get me to blend in but at the same time I also feel like their relationship with spirituality with sick philosophy in general wasn't very strong. I think for them it was just cultural heritage. This is how we look you know, and people in job. Cut their hair all the time as well. Just kind of cultural preference. And if you get more into the spiritual side than you a little bit more serious, and it wasn't until my, you know, I was probably six seven years old. My mother was working the Kelloggs factory and she we had moved is around the corner from the house that we had purchased. And this is my parents, I you know, legit proper house where we all had our own bedrooms. And I think a year and a half into having the job, she got serious shoulder injury. And I think that really made her have. Downward spiral. Because she felt like she uprooted the entire family to this neighborhood. Just so we can work in this factory which she can no longer work at. And I think she found solace at a at one of the temples, and I think she got her education and sick heritage and spirituality here in Canada versus back home. I think back home. It was a little bit more passive a little bit more like here the basic rules here. The big holidays. Here's what you gotta do. And I think out here when she had the free time and she was looking for something now now that she wasn't earning. And I don't know how that impacted her relationship with my dad back, then I think she found a lot of solace in the philosophy and in the beliefs. And then she brought that into the house because I know she got my father to quit drinking. You know, she got she turned the whole family vegetarian. And then I think just a little mom's boy, you know, she want you to grow your hair just do it. And then it wasn't as challenging as a little kid, you know, dealing with some of it, but then I started to notice that, hey, used to fit in. Now always standing out. You know, looking at me funny, 'cause making fun of me noticing that. And this happened envy the kids that I knew since those five always had their hair, and though these people used to them. They're not used to me. They remember me time different, but I mean everybody has their own challenges. It wasn't gonna go away. This is just my eight year old annual brain trying to process all of those. Yeah. I mean, and it's interesting too, because at that age that agent early teens. It's like your friends or everything and fitting in being is everything. And you're gone through this in a weird way it's almost like there's like you're caught in the middle between your mom adopting this tradition, saying, this is important to me, it's important to us as a family, and we're all going to embrace them. And then, you know, like you not really being a part of that up until that moment in your life, and also having friends outside that you ought to be accepted by and be like, I'm like want to operated on different levels, like it wasn't just, you know, this was sick heritage. In and spirituality, but there's also been job culture, and, and how people dress spoke acted, you know, party, you know, type of people they hung with and so that story of having one foot in two different worlds and, you know, either feeling like you're being torn apart or finding your identity and becoming a bridge. You know that's the story of every child of an immigrant, you know, them coming into a country that celebrates the individual, you know, versus many other countries that, you know, really focus on the unit. You know what, what's more important, your last name, or your first name, you know coming to North America really became about the individual and you know, figure out who you are? And what do you do for fun? Whereas with back. There's like you live in village. You're part of unit, and you play a role and my parents never even knew the word why existed when it came to what their parents said to them, you know. Just transmission. Like this is the way it is you my grandparents had jumped just jumped. They didn't even ask, how high they just jumped and for us they really do this and be like, why we would always question. Because we, we were North American kids, we grew up here. We were watching Saturday morning cartoons. We were part of this world now, I don't think there was ever eight erecting knowledge of like, oh, there's a culture shock here. Once my mother became a homemaker after she couldn't work anymore, but just further lated her from what the real world was going through. My father had a better idea that he was a cab driver. He got to the point where he doesn't even have an accent when he speaks English, you know, he sounds like me, and it's because he's out every day driving, a cab speaking to people being social where my mom, you know, when she speaks English, it sounds as if it was the first day in the country, even though she's been in Canada longer than she was in India at this point. So it it's very interesting idea. But I think every single child of an immigrant right now. No matter where they're from finding a way to record. Sil- it on their own for me. I'm just a big proponent of a, let's stop feeling Soifer selves, if our parents don't understand us. Let's instead spend more time trying to understand them. You know, they wanted us all to be doctors, lawyers, and engineers because they came here with very specific goal to improve their quality of life, their circumstances. Create more opportunities for the family. That's why they came here. Nobody told them you could be an author or rapper or you know, a poet or design clothes, or in do become an an influence or nobody ever told him any of those things before. And I think from that perspective, it's very slow kind of back and forth dance between, you know, the generation that I'm a part of their generation. I mean, interesting also because I was I caught the video that you did back of you and your mom and he car we like playing. And asking her what she thinks about it and the look on her face priceless. It's like there's what the words that came out of her mouth. And then there's just like the look on her face this kind of listening and really trying to be patient and understand, like, okay, this is the choice that my son has made had feel about it. And, and what, what should I say? What should I not say? And it was really sweet sort of nearly short exchange, actually. Religion and I know just from being teacher in remembering what I what it was to be a student, you know, cognitively you know, I got good genes, you know, going to school within difficult. I was able to process information they will get things the first time and, you know, the learning style and that's genetic lottery in some senses. And I, I was never able to see that my parents, because there's always a little bit of a language barrier. So my my, my mother spoke English to me, it was broken. And it was found like she's not she doesn't know what she's saying is not making as much sense. But slowly realize no, this is who I got whatever I have to contribute to this planet. I got from these two and this language barrier doesn't take away with house more. They are how well they can actually follow along things. So I noticed that recently. They're trying their best to wrap their head around somebody in the creative. We don't have any entrepreneurial in my family. We don't let alone artists. And if anybody says, you know what did you get the? Art side, and in your so I have no idea. I don't know. Nobody in my mom or dad sides is an artist in any way, and I'm sure they have an abundance of creativity within them. So it's always very interesting to see that when I play music from a mom, or do different things because I learned how to rap from all the hymns she made me memorize all the hymns in and been Jobe all the Sakib, they all rhyme all written in poetry. So I would just, you know, and she bribed me to, to memorize Stanford should be like this. You know, this has for every stands, you remember a give you a dollar and the long ones would be about, like thirty five stanzas. And when you're like seven years, old, thirty five bucks. A lot and ended the harder ones that were in, like Farsi in different languages, because some of the goods who wrote, and we're just these amazing poets and some of these were like super small stanzas, and like two hundred long and she like if you memorize get two hundred bucks, so I would sit there just memorizing him's not knowing what they're saying, I'm parroting them. I don't even know what I'm saying. Yeah, but I'd memorize the hymns, and that really for years. This was like force-fed to me for a good ten years. But that gave me rhythm that gave me cadence. They gave me the ability like this is how I I'm starting to see the pieces come together. This always been there. So inching also that what you pull that are that experience like, without necessarily, relating to the specific translation of language, 'cause if, especially if you didn't really understand what you're saying, but just knowing that there is a it's doing something to you. It's doing something for you. And that there, there is this, there's intonation and the rhythm and the cadence and that data loan has an effect. It's pretty cool. Do still remember those. I mean those, those thing about one yesterday as well, and then now learning the meanings values that is social wages, what you look to shop, Novi July. Dr poke poke notable. Par says. But luckily, Technogym gives the whole year of could it tip? Hokum joylin are non Iglesia and all and. My mom's stickler for pronunciation. Because her real goals was like let me get him to do this in front of other people. It'd be very impressive. I can't write and probably probably the little there of he has to pronounce it properly to love him. You know, like all these believes that she had. But, you know, just, you know, in that stands insecure, we talk about this one, and I, and I think the important part of understanding poetry, also means a lot of lines at filled in 'cause written and poetry is not written bluntly in your face. So in that context, my mom always said it was about God and for me as realized it was about one this that we're all one. We are the creation. We are the creator. So just ocean over just what you look, you can think about it forever. And nothing's gonna come from it, and he will Lovie July. Dodd some people stay silent their entire lives like certain monks, and they still can't achieve it capability pod. Some people starve themselves and they fast, they can't do it either. And the whole list is about all the things people are trying to do to reach the divine and what it was. It was a social commentary on rituals. You know, people think that you've got the Bayden these holy sites and, and you'll find the divinity some people think he's gotta sit quietly. Some people think you have to starve yourself. Some people think you have to serve the poor and he goes, you know, but if they're snappier none of this matters, and that was, you know, the, the punch line or, or the thief is of the idea and realizing that, hey, like, you know, the British came, you know about a hundred and fifty years ago, and they had probable at this point, even two hundred years ago, they had a massive impact on culture in India. And I think they, they really packaged it up sick philosophy to become more dogmatic religion, you know, so we're my mommy's references when she refers to what she considers God's open outta open. Up. So she literally saying the men up there right in philosophy. The idea of God is everywhere, like code in the matrix. So that reference to her pointing up that came from the British, that's that's Christianity making this way in, you know. And she doesn't realize that, you know, 'cause that's a mixture of the cultures coming in, and I'm not saying it's forced to simulation. It's, you know of a whole new culture spending one hundred years in your country, you know, building churches and have an influence going to have an influence win most of the people when it comes to, you know, religion spirituality, we're mainly part time. So it's just about attending the holidays. It's just about maybe wearing a symbol on a necklace, as you know, the basic mainstream idea of, and they started to bleed through, you know, you come out here, people talk about their karma. No, they've taken an Indian taking a word from India and given a new kind of idea. And they'll say Spanish words kind of mixes. And so I see where my mom got references from ours, fortunate just in my travels I've met a lot of our. Collectors historians that really kind of helped me put things in perspective. Yeah. I mean, especially I think is, is such an interesting tradition, also because it seems like you know, when the first hand it's pre new in the content traditions was about five six hundred years old. I grew was born, fourteen sixty nine eight and then it was like goes through series of girls. And then but then at some point, it was sort of, like, okay, so the lineage of this tradition being like having one one human person being the leader of all this goes away, and it's all about the teachings, you know, and then that goes out into the world and becomes the thing that become translate, which is really different than almost every other tradition the analogy that I was taught as a kid was, it was never about the candles. It was always about the flame. So you're I grew was KENDALL. Yeah. And then he lit a second, do they just continue to go and actually, the compilation, grunt side. Goo means, dark, roomies light, you know, so we don't worship goods, the teachers teachers and I mean as a. Child. I was raised to believe that these were magical men were magical powers hails behind their head. But now looking at it more. These were leaders and students themselves and the first grew he pulled a lot of writing from other people that had come and gone way before him. And he, he brought them into the fold and the fifth grew at that point, put all these competitions together put the writings from the first five altogether and call the grunt side, cyber is assigned sign of respect grant means compilation accomplish of goods and his writings from Muslim scholars. Does writing some hymns Vollers? Yeah. Jane other other beliefs. And when there was a uniform idea uniform idea of seeking the truth. You know, being students of the truth being self aware, and then I think, as a movement grew started to get politically involved. So the fifth Gutu ended up being murdered by the king of the time and is different. Very rare, eating Stowe. As to why. But I think the consensus is the movement was or getting it was gaining steam and sukey were also were Marshall, you know where we fight retrain? We don't we carry weapons. We, you know, we have a culture of job I'd be prepared. We speak up against what we feel is wrong. So the first good went to jail for speaking against force. You know, forced conversions, you know, it was a mobile army running a ruling over a Hindu-majority. They were trying to convert all the Hindus to Islam. He's Bogart against that Gus into jail for it. You know. And I'm sure the kingdom put him in jail than realize that this is how you amplify message. And so, by the fifth, goo I feel that he's he within the he ended up being executed. I think for refusing to marry into the king's family. I think that was their first initial goal. And then when did up happening was the six started built an army, so his and it was. There's a reason tach. Yeah. So that you defend defend. And then I think that's kind of where we got a that was the first beginnings of our look, as well. I don't think a lot of people right now. Superficially, think to be sick yet, you know, don't cut your hair having beard have a turban where certain articles, I think it was much more of a pragmatic thing back, then I think it was okay. We're starting to army everybody who follows me. You're in the army each of you're going to have to figure out how to fight, we're going to train you guys. And now, this is what we're all going to look like this is our uniform and then it gets a little bit game with thrones with the politics when it comes to the six, and when it comes to the seventy eight GU but the ninth grew he, he was the son of the sixth. So there are some stories as to why in why the seventy eight existed. And I think the existed a lot more. They don't have any writings out there in the world. And a lot of the belief is was on oral tradition up until that point basic no, the first. To the fifty all roads stuff. But then after the seventy as well. And that's the bait as a kid, I was just taught to memorize her names. Not know anything as an adult it was like, oh, really what it was. They were trying to get the six goose son. They're trying to find him and kill him to successive. So the seventh and eighth who don't have much of a historical impact, they were propped up almost, you know, and that will probably get a lot of trouble for saying that, but from historical spectacles, super interesting because the ninth good his name was good day. Beholder deg demeans Wheeler of the sword. He had been battle-tested. I think from the age of eleven so I think there was a big a big push to find him and take him out early before before he becomes an atoll e inherits this army. And also this was really good at politics. He he opened a Goshi eight the freeing of over fifty princes and they're in the region. So he had a lot of political power as well. And by the time the ninth gonna became an adult and. Took over being Gutu. He was executed. They found him arrested in Mexico, and then his son, the tenth and final. He inherited the army he narrated everything at the age of nine and I'm sure he had handlers and people around him, but he grew up to be a really great fighter and he, he made he got a lot of payback. He you know, he he found those kings. His all all four of us were killed two were killed in battle to executed two young sons a six year old and a eight year old. And then he he grew the army grew the movement started creating sorta taking land started building palaces and everything else. He's the one where he kind of made everything official, and he kind of gave us a ceremony to kind of what he referred to as the Kalsa in, in the Kalsa. Again. Now is a lot of spiritual connotation to it as viewed as, you know, this is how you get baptized into sa- key from what I've understood learn now as causes a Abigail. Any word meaning people who don't pay taxes, people were free so he's at the call. So people are free. We are liberated from spiritual, shackles of these dog Matic religions that are trying to control everybody, but also the political shackles the oppressive ruling kings, you know, we will fight instead of bending, the knee in a sense and an after him I feel like we had a very good stronghold than we had a good reputation in north north Indians. In general, we're bigger than most of the rest of India in terms of I'm almost, I'm almost six feet tall, and I'm the youngest I'm the smallest in my family all my little bay because of like six two six three giants and from the tenth goo he's a he took his, his father's writing, the ninth added them into grunts said this is this is all that matters. Now these teachings and go out make copies spread it. And so now the grunts of is, is considered the spiritual guide for people. Insecure, and as much more of a philosophy than even the spiritual idea at this point. Yeah. I mean, even like you know what, what started this whole thing, which is the, the him the chant. How'd you describe it that you shared him the him, which is really a okay? Like they're always things. You can do that these practices prescribed things, but fundamentally, you know, like, what really matters is what's in your heart who you are. And how you actually, hey tweet yourself and hatred. Other people, exactly. There's a lot of operations. A lot of these hymns in his conversations in their observations as to what's happening. And, you know, sometimes there, there's one, I don't, I don't know, the Jobe of almost mocking is of, like, hey, so you believe that the earth is spinning between the horns of bulls. You know, this is a religious belief from some sect out Nydia five hundred years ago. And he's like, where's the bull standing is standing on land that land on a planet that is also being spun on the horns, you know, and. He tells talks about, you know, people who you people put pictures of DVD's, and they moved candles, and they do all that stuff. And he's like look in the sky, the entire sky is Pooja. The sun is the flame circling creation, and it's an old to the beauty of it like they really they did a lot of that. They challenged back then women used to have to jump in the fire husband died. So it was your husband is, you've got to commit suicide at his funeral. They spoke out against that. They spoke out against gender inequality. They spoke out against class classism classism, as massive out there in India, you know, so caste system. Exactly. Yes, if you want to, you know, the rule was if you want to meet the glue, you had to eat food, I yet to, to come and come to his place in eat, and everyone had eat on the floor. So if a beggar came because it was a free meal, they got to eat in the king came. He had to sit on the floor alongside and that was a big thing. And again, I. I wish they had a stronger impact, you know, six represent two percent, India, you know, I don't you know, the issue that they were challenging still exist. But I'm very fortunate that my baseline, you know, are a lot of progressive ideas of, you know, everybody is equal. Nobody's more special. Anybody else women are superior in many ways to men in their ability to give birth and give life or not don't treat them inferior, which something very prevalent on that side of the world, and is cool now being able to see the popularity of just eastern philosophy. Whatever is secure into his own, but his them come over to the side, you know, tease people able to eat tomb right now when I was a kid yummy, fun of me for having to extend my clothes now. Everybody putting in places even belie the latest health days, the latest health thing was doing yoga when he's, you know, saying, no mustard or whatever, and it's just like it's interesting because I grew up, you know being taught how to meditate I grew up being taught to focus on the now. You know. Todd that my ego, my anger. My attachment my lust, and my greed were the things that were always going to keep me from being at peace. You know, it's like, call myself humble humble came from, meaning that the ego is the size of the elephant, and liberation the size of a mustard seed, as very refreshing to see that once ideas get expressed out here in depending on the message or what have you is really connecting with people. And I think we wanted different set of I mean, we're asking different questions different set of answers, you wanna guide our lives by something. That's I think, more practical, interesting. There's clearly a strong Hindu influence in sick is also a lot of the language. I mean like my Aleutian Jeevan not like liberated being rather than transformation. It's all about liberation which I think is a fascinating that would have been his audience. Yeah. Glue road. They're speaking to Muslim induce, right? It's like it's gotta relate in some way, shape, or you gotta tie into the conversation. That's thirty in their head. And then. Bring them to this shared perspective them, what they know tell them what they know then tell them what they need to hear. Not sure if any of, you know, this, but actually used Houston on a fitness club and was a personal trainer in very past life. Chew story, and the single biggest goal, that people would come to me with in that industry wide was weight loss. 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Or just click the link in the show notes. So when you're you, it's that point your life where like, okay, I'm learning this stuff as part of my family, because your mom decides it's about -able. Valuable, you know, so you start to doubt that the whole family search dotted, and especially in. 'cause now you're, you're learning the rhythm and the cadence and the intonation actual of, of chanting and of the hymns. And then in Semel team, you're starting to understand a philosophy of life. That's touched. You know, like to this mission and the philosophy much after as it was just like we are here. The ten gurus names when they were born like very useless information. But I mean when you're a kid, you need to know the basic. Yeah. So then you end up going to college you end up teaching elementary school. Right. What was the decision to do that? At that point, you know, I'm in high school, and I'm having no idea what I should do. Right. Not what I wanted was just what should. Yeah. 'cause you got to create a thread. That's been got the creative has always been there. And it's manifesting itself when opportunities for creativity or they're right? But as nothing along, there was a guy in my high school that wanted to be a comedian. Like that's I wouldn't even entertain idea. I didn't even feel bad. Just an entertainment just wasn't realistic. So what ended up happening was I was just trying to figure out what do people do to get employed? I think I found some newspaper article that was like, oh architects, this much, you know, I t majors make this much. And then I think someone like getting computer sciences, and the okay, so I applied for computer sciences, and the mass side and your brain, which king kinda easy. Definitely click. Well, some good. Yeah. Had my grades were great in the mathematics. This should be good. I applied to four universities. I think I got into maybe too. You know. Maybe I wasn't as Marta that thought it was, but one of the university, which local was like yoke university, which is like, the, the fun university of Toronto's, the academic one York's fun when I went to York, and I got him for IT, I didn't know what I t was at the time and formation technology knowing what it was. But it sounded close enough to computer sciences. Let's do it. So I did my first degree in information technology. But the one thing that I'm so fortunate, I did was it was, it was a four year degree or three year degree. And every year you're given the freedom to take an elective. So, you know, take all these coursework and take one fun course. But I ended up doing was I took all those fun courses in my first year, so I took no computer courses nothing to do with my degree in the first years, I took mass media and the socialization of children. I took the bible, and modern context took a few more media classes. And if you more philosophy classes, I took. Nothing related. And I mean, this is the first time I got exposed to just ideas that I've never heard before, whether it was the idea that every four and this is before social media. Every photograph, you take is manufactured moment, you know, even with the, the film camera because people pose, and that's not always happening at that time you stopped you looked you smiled you manufactured something. And I had never heard that idea, the idea that The Lion King was racist. You know, you had light skin guys dark-skinned bad guys. And you know, nobody has accents, except for the monkey and all the all the characters voiced by black actors or were all hyenas, and they all lived in the ghetto of pride rock and be like, whoa. I never thought of any of this stuff, and I really opened up a side of my brain that, that made me think a lot more critically, and I think that was a game changer for me. So probably by the third year university when I was finished and the next that was supposed to be finished undergrad, and go get an MBA, because then MBA's get you in. Shifts and you'll get employed through something something else. And it was my sister said, you know, I'd grown up going to all these Sakib based youth camps. So I started going to them when I was eight and he's like sometimes go for a month, and you'd go have fun swimming pool. Go skiing in the winter play basketball, and then they teach you the core principles of sickie and some were great. Some were unhealthy colts and everything in between somewhere just babysitting services. But I spent my entire life going through them, and then they're probably past fifteen sixteen as stopped being an attendee and became a ball in tier so I- crude a solid five years of working with kids and my sister. They why don't you become a teacher. You're already very good with kids and never thought of it. And I had a friend who knew someone who was a fulltime teacher. And I sat down with him. And he's like pros, the best job in the world, either worker kids know today's at the same. You know, we have plenty of time off you wanna work on something on the side. Yeah. Plenty of. Time to do it the whole summer to do stuff. So I wasn't going in thinking that over the passionate educator, I just kind of went in being like all the sounds like something cool. They do for the next move at least the next move. It sounds more citing than an MBA. You know, sounds like something that, you know, girls might be like, that's so cute your teacher. You know, it also sounds like a decent amount of the real motivation like, yeah, John, explain somebody. I'm a computer programmer doesn't sound fun as we're kids, a change their lives and fire them shit. You know whatever it may be. And yeah, it was my mindset at this point was all just what, what is the path of least resistance to what changes in there? I mean, because you get to point where you're doing this for Helen, you did. She offer five years. Five years. Was it a slow evolution that, like, reconnected you with this, like the Saudi that was writing spoken word and music? Or what did something actually happen? I think what it was a combination. Of in formulate this answer while I say you helped me make a connection right now. I think it was in this Daljit being back in the classroom, and it reawoken the kid him because, now that was when I would read to the kids, I read them, the books that were read to me, you know, one of the books was the sideways stories from wayside school. Lewis soccer in my teacher read that to me when I was in third grade the book is still just as funny. I just did a reading of it a month ago in Toronto to a bunch of kids and they loved it. It's just a universally funny book that kids love. And I think that kinda reawoke my creativity. And also the fact that this is the first time I didn't have homework like you know, once work was done. What do you do you know and what I did was it took a second job tutoring? Kids in math. They still had that very strong math. I to me and I did know academically I wasn't challenging myself by being teacher teacher's college wasn't, the most teachers college awarded a lot of effort at the pelota effort, a lot of work to get stuff done. Finish. The projects were. Where people do presentations, but there wasn't a lot of like racking your brain trying to solve quesions and it was not academe weekly challenging, and all the friends that I had studied with in, in highschool at this point, they're all becoming doctors and lawyers in an engineer's and, and chasing and really doing it doing things that I knew I was capable of. But I just didn't want to and that kind of toll on me and I thought to myself, like I'm not really living my potential here and manifesting itself because my reputation was he's a nice guy, but he's pretty lazy. You know, don't don't expect him to go above and beyond in the classroom. He does. He treats the kids will kids love him. He gets the work done, but you're not staying late. He's not, he's not going to join any extracurricular activities, that you don't force them to join you know, he'll help anybody who hasn't the help, but he's not going out of his way and then one day I went to a concert and spoken word. Poet, just before. Warm. Income KOMO and you still active super talented and he's just that allies, you know, like a fine wine. I love better with time. And I just thought like the simplicity and beauty and everything he said, it's stuck me. And this is probably fifteen years ago, he never that I still remember line. And it was like I can do this. I can do exactly. I've done this. I've written poems for my friends for their girlfriends. I've got challenging university to read a poem on spot. Somebody wants and like I can do this, even my worst work is more impressive than, than I think it is to other people, you know, this actually, is my think and knowing that other things weren't might thing, but I didn't think I was special. I thought this one element of me especial, and I started writing a bunch of stuff and then one day, went to an open mic. It was like a little a little contest in the coffee shop like ten people, and I won. And then I started spoken word and my spoken word at this point is not like. When you think slam poetry, like you know, like my feelings, I have feelings feelings, all my Billy, I'm going, you know, that type of style. I literally just wrapping without music. I was just because I grew up on hip hop. So I'll just literally wrapping, there's no music. But I bought a lot of aggression to hip hop has Gretchen. So my spoken word pieces were just me wrapping fifty bars. Just keep writing, and eventually, memorize them then joined the Tronto spoken word collective. They had like a monthly event. So I started going there competing there, and then I would wouldn't make it past the first round and I realized it was because I was talking about, like everything I talked about that point was social issues talking about Israel and Palestine. I was talking about, you know, toxic waste in Somalia talking about, you know, activism activists issues that were happening in Tronto talking about Mumia Abu-Jamal, you know, that side got woken up to me. I got I was awoken. That in high school learning about me Jamal, somebody handing me, the autobiography of Malcolm, X and all of this connecting with the, the side of my sickie, which was, you know, civil disobedience, you know, my parents, you know, impinge ob-, you see the police, you clutch person cross the street, you know, 'cause they're most likely going to rob you. So we were really raising an you'd hear the NWEA wrapping the police. Oh shit. Other people feel the same way and then just connecting with this. And I remember when I doing all of this people said it had a identity crisis. You know, this guy thinks he's black. He's wrapping like my were rhyming and killing five hundred years ago. This is, you know, rob reminds me of what I grew up on, you know, and all of its just all these little pieces started to slowly come there. So I think as a teacher my creative juices, kind of awakened, but I was also giving more space. Yeah. Because now that time as. Time an ad money. So I could actually afford to like drive downtown pay the five dollar ticket to to get there. This one things that high school me, could even university me could ever do, and I eventually stopped going to the performances. And that's when I started actually, like I found, you know, I would tell people you can rap I can do this. And in some of the hey, my boys got a studio. Let's go. And then you go to the studio in the studio was a mattress microphone, you know, and. At the same time. So I think the first time ever recorded was like a birthday gift for girl. I was dating. You know, and it was probably like robbing like this for quite those room for guys. And everybody was, like smoking weed and just waiting for me to finish. And I was just like super nervous, but it was the start and you know, I got some validation from them. So I kept doing it found somebody else with another mattress and another basement kept working on that, and then kind of found my community and at the same time this is all fun. You know, I'm working this is my this is what I'm doing after work. This is my pottery class. This is my everything. The work is the reward and not trying to put it out because thinking to myself, like all of you put this out. We're gonna make fun of you. You put, you know, some of the stuff they say is aggressive, you know, guys in our in our culture, are very alpha so that you're just inviting yourself to get challenged, you know, at that next part you go to there's a lot of different things that can happen. Just do it for fun, and keep it quiet. But then when I started putting stuff out people started recognizing voices, I said earlier and it became where I had humble the poet and I was Mr. Singh. I had two separate lives and my students started finding new like missing. I saw that video of you on, on the internet, and you were swearing, you know, and a missing we saw doing interview on TV you know, because I the local Indian shows, you know, I was fast. I was just as exotic to them as, as I am people out here and the name side, growing, and I started getting small gigs, you know, like, hey, come out to Fresno, California. We'll pay for your ticket in me calling in sick to go to Fresno, California. So there was a very organic thing, and I still and every artist I met at this point, I was not impressed with their life, you know, like, oh, this sucks, you guys early nickel, and diming everywhere. Like, how do you pay your rent and all we take odd jobs? Here there, I gotta wait tables. I'm like, well, I'm a teacher. I got salary. I'm going to enjoy this. And I'm gonna just and I'll take some. Money out of my salary paid for myself to make some fun, music and have cool. And if somebody ever offers me more money than I make the teacher. Then pursue this full time that was probably like that point in the movie where OSHA therefore shadowing. So I spent a summer in San Francisco with with another rapper and I'm getting paid as a teacher over the summer. So I'm doing. All right. But I'm staying is the one bedroom. We rented out of a house sleeping on the floor and just watching him work in watching him collect fifty dollars a day, from wrapping on the street corner, watching clicks, more money from rapid in the subway watching him. Do you know other small gigs Washington show up to concerts, and offer his services and really, hey guys, just give me fifty bucks? Do a half an hour set and just be like this guy's like he's on it. This is cool. And he made me fall in love with the lifestyle and income that September. This is twenty ten went back to work, and I was going through some other transitions as well. This was, you know, I had as a teacher had invested money in two thousand eight km wiped it all out, like with many people stories ahead. A relationship that just ended that the month of September and had a falling out with a really good friends, so that been going to so much transition, and I got a got to do something, I don't know what to do. And in a producers working with manic Mutua deal. Get you deal with a hundred twenty grand. You'll be good. And it was like, like, wow, like that will not only that's more than I make the teacher way more as also will help me like kill this debt that I'm in, you know, because right now I'm just making the minimum payments from my salary. This is awesome. So I jumped into the job and jump straight into only to find out that it wasn't real smoke and mirrors. So you leave behind the steady job, you live in the twin town. I'm all in on the music thing in no small part on a promise that turns out not to be real promise, but the promise. What that really did was that, that really touched upon my consistent pattern of cutting corners and wanting to ease way out. I wanted to quickest way to get out of debt. I one of the quickest way to get out of this teaching job that no longer felt fun. Probably because most of my rest of my world was kind of going to transition. So I always cut corners. I you know, I could've been I could've spent ten years and become a doctor could've spent three years became a lawyer. And I actually was had just written my l sat that year and said know what I'm leaving. Teaching got to be a lawyer. I got to challenge myself more academically, but also I gotta make more money because this debt isn't going away. So the same time like on the one side of your brain as like this is this is this is what I wanna do. I've seen the lifestyle. It's really cool on their something tag me. But then the other side of the brain as but on a practical level I still got I still need to walk that safe path. I need to go get my advanced degree. I need surly Bill that out. I got their wrapping rob each other. And I think when he because he's always, because he was working with them for a while. And just look man, just us. Good stuff. Great people need to hear this stuff. And that was a lot of people told me, but they weren't cracking the code as to how do I monetize? How do I make money from this? This is before you're getting at since money this before you have sponsorships and that's got the deal here. Here's some paperwork. Emailed me a PDF and instead a hundred twenty grand. I was like this is cool. And it was like a record label out of Japan that always been telling me that he sends beats too. So this is perfect. They got the money you'll. Yeah, they got a massive market out there. Maybe we'll get a tour off. This will be good. We'll be fulltime musicians. We'll get to live the life, you know, pretty much be Connie west. And I was living with my parents at this time. So that's, that's why I was able to kind of, you know, save money at this point. And I had a rental property that I owned I made an investment years before any of this. And what ended up happening was I? Kick my tendon no to move into that condominium be does it. I gotta live the artist. Life can't, you know, can't be around be around my square. Parents. I got I gotta do this, and then it took a year to realize that the deal wasn't coming his excuses. Weren't real when he realized he ran out of stories to tell me he disappeared. And then at this point, I had just taken my debt and just almost double. Dick's living off credit cards and lines of credit because I had no sources of income. Yeah. But I mean he made a really interesting decision that also, which is at like your Jeep in at that moment. Right. Even master really substantial debt. So on the one hand like the call to go back into your house, hat, and go back to some managing professors probably stronger than ever. But you made the decision to double down, essentially on the creative side of things. But I do believe that I in my heart thought that one twenty was coming twenty wiped it all away. Right. Right. So it wasn't simply like. I'm chasing this with my heart. The first probably seven months when I thought to check was in the mail. It was it was heaven, dang. Oh, I was literally feeding myself inspiration daily. You know, my daily routine was consuming are going for long walks. You know, just living the dream life, this will all get paid for no problem. And at the same time, still making my mortgage payments. Now on this condominium that I don't have attendant keeping up. And by the time twenty eleven came was coming to antics, also getting humble was getting traction just trying to build a name on that sad. Yeah. The name was building, it wasn't building fast that thought it was it wasn't full-time pay mortgage tight money. I was maybe making. Five hundred two thousand dollars a month. Maybe you know, from gigs here, there certain deals philmont use music, wanna license that I didn't have a lawyer didn't have a manager and have anything at this point. And then I had a lot of denial. I really wanted this money to come through. I really thought this was my, my ex mechanized really just thought like the cavalry is coming this checks gonna come in. Everything's gonna be great a wipe out my debt. I think my dad was like forty grand and I'll have a lot of money to play with, and just be the weirdo artist JC inspiration and we'll be good. So where do you go from there? I mean so when I when I finally have that moment, where was like there is no money that never was any money like this, the year later. Now, you're eighty thousand dollars, you know, it was a dark time that was that was just medicating myself and just lying in bed and just being into nihil just being pissed off at everybody and being. Hating myself being so stupid because I always felt I was smart, and it was like how could somebody is so smart. Be so stupid at the same time. How did you why did you do this? Why did you believe in what part of his stories, even made sense? And in addition to everybody else now saying, I told you, so, you know, including my family. So for longtime, I hid it from everybody. So it's just to be embarrassed. That's probably a good, solid two months. I lost a bunch of weight. Didn't I couldn't afford to lose? You know, I went probably went down twenty pounds lighter than you see me now. And I'm a slim person I stopped eating I thought talking to people, I owed people money, I didn't just, oh, the bank's money friends that cared about demo money and avoid everybody for two weeks. So there's certain matter like it sounds like ceremony. Shame that setting around the shame guilt, things -iety regret had the whole salad bowl had it all it was. It was it was all dressed. It was a full party. Yeah, what's natural out of this. So for the longest time, I told people of lying in bed in a herd J Cole song. And it's called dollar dream part three lyric said, so you know what are you gonna do? You know, you're going to you're gonna grow bidder and grow cold, which was us, or you're gonna flip dollar and turn it into your dream, be a scholar and Fien watch watch upon become king. And I know I'm not quoting properly, and I told people that did get me out of bed when I heard those lyrics is probably nine in the morning, I got out of bed, and I did have an energy that I didn't have before and the energy was take responsibility own this figure it out. Now, no one else is how helping you know what's coming to save the day, figure it out. Now. What I do realize I do feel that two weeks in bed. Probably was important as well. Probably should have taken all the drugs took. But the two weeks in the bed was probably good enough for me to, to heal from heartbreaks that I was going to that. Hadn't dealt with, you know, months, pry the year pyro most and also this friend who had trust and being betrayed. I'd never thought, you know, the heterosexual male and ever thought another guy could break my heart but I realized was now looking back, I don't have any brothers. I don't have any biological brothers two sisters. So I really turn this guy into my brother. I really loved him as a brother and to find out that it was all just one big scam really broke my heart and really put me in this place where I didn't trust myself anymore to make decisions. And I feel like those two weeks times what does the healing more than anything else? You had agreed it. I mean you have to. To serve, like, can't say sitting on the tradition, or whatever the coolant is, it's like yada, yada, mourn it has to happen. And I didn't realize. Originally. I would tell people it was hearing those lyrics. And now I feel like the combination of healing for two weeks and then hearing those and I was the momentum. You're ready. Let's go. You know, you're not fully healed. But even when you're not fully healed, you gotta start walking on it. And that's one thing changed. That's when I stopped becoming that guy cut corners. That's when I stopped becoming that guy who voided any type of conflict, any type of discomfort. That was the moment that things changed. And I've plastered, a bunch of messages on my wall printed them all out on pink paper and it said like sink or swim. You wanna vacation, go get a real job? You know, we're going to be humble. The poet until we die no days off. You getting xactly what you put in pragmatic cold, you know, the type type stuff that soccer dad would be yelling that his kid, it's just what I needed. I, I didn't need a hug at in you, compassion. I didn't need pity. I needed a kick in the ass. So the first thing I did that called everybody owed money to. And I said, listen, I o you money. I don't have money. I don't know how I'm going to get the money but I'm not going to avoid you, and you will not see me spending money anywhere else. People have owed me money and I know what feels like I'm not going to allow this to become that let me figure it out. You know. And at this point, people have been, you know, people who, who, who matter to me. But I wasn't listening to look the only way you're gonna start the process of digging yourself out of this hold units sell sell the place right now. I spent the first three months scrambling to continue paying the mortgage, but the truth was I couldn't keep this place up anymore. And I wouldn't have any in putting attending back in wasn't going to give me any income. It was just going to keep it at zero. I may decisions messed up where I can no longer afford the luxury of having disinvestment property. So that was my first adult. Decision which was like you sell it. You're gonna have to take the loss. You know you supposed to keep this between now you have to get rid of it after only a couple of years this was your rainy day fund. This is your rainy day. So I sold that the money I got from that is what went to the personal debts immediately. And I remember one person I paid back this I'm really sorry that you had to sell your home and to pay me back, you know, to now, people will know you know because he us been, there's a lot of pride mean. I don't care if people know that was my I don't care if people know him struggling don't care, if people know him in debt, I think, that's the reason so many people stay in debt is to keep up a certain image. I'm like I don't care. I'll let everybody know that I'm struggling, you know, I don't care. I don't wanna own anybody money. I don't want to have that on my chest anymore. So I paid those and I told them and I'll get to a point where I could buy two of those in all get there. And. It was hard, you know, because that I lived on I had a beautiful condo on a subway station like my condo connected to the station. So I didn't have a car when every time I had to go downtown to seize condo, and to face it, and it killed me and it killed me for a long it only killed me until they had the money to buy two, you know, superficially, I had to have that much money until I could face that building again, and not see it as giant monument to my failure, and, you know, it took me four years to get out of that. It didn't happen overnight. So I was selling selling my place than it was selling all my recording equipment and selling all that fun stuff that I thought I needed sold. It all on Craigslist, moving back home with my mom and dad, the irony of it becoming that starving artists that I was voting. You had like years before you're like I don't want to live that life. Now, I'm thirty over thirty and I'm living at home with my parents with no. No, no idea how to earn any money. But now at least I can eat now the distresses of survival of disappeared. And now I can focus on this and at the same time knowing like you MRs up so bad. Don't sleep in, you know you mess up so bad. Don't let them see you having fun. You don't deserve to have one I thought making music for a long time, because and I'm still shaking that, that mindset 'cause music for me was so fun. That was a reward for me to make music. And I got to the point where you don't deserve it. Like you fuck this up so bad, you don't deserve anything nice. You don't deserve to talk to women in very harsh myself, but I at that point, I needed I messed up pretty big own it. I wasn't bamboozled by a genius manipulator, it was it was, it was a young guy who just sold me dreams easily, and I fell for it, and I paid a hefty price which was the tuition my school of life. Yeah. And results, I mean is tuition in, in your school of making a more powerful and more committed transition into vocation. Yes. I mean, the guy in now only happened because that happened, you know, so important is, we'll take one of the things you right? Like in, in your buck. You know, like no straight lines. There are no straight lines, right. Like there are you gotta meander bounce around. And it's the, the idea of your their shortcuts. They get you there fast. It's like doesn't work that way. Life. Definitely does not work that way. And it required me to, to ask myself. Why did you think life work this way? Like why where did this because it was? Culture also kind of promises that it should popular. Drown. Yeah. And it was had to here. I think the founder of Twitter that I that maybe somebody said it before him. It takes ten years to be overnight success. These were things that had ever heard when I was still teaching and making music, you know, to me, this is like this stuff's easy. You know, at this point, I hadn't encountered any real challenge, like you'll plow university. I get into university. I applied to teacher's college. Oh, it's a little bit more competitive. I still got in, you know, nothing was consequential until I had that moment world. Holy crap. Like you don't have any money. You're in Matt, you're more debt than you were a year ago. And you're struggling then. And now you have zero options to earn. There's like there's nothing this currently I wasn't even selling music items back, then I was just putting them down for free. Download so the union know how to make money and then at every single artist I met how. How do we make money? Where's the money like how do you guys make money? I don't get this and learning the economics of creativity. And it was, you know, again, there wasn't there wasn't that one big check that way built the debt I baby steps chipped away at it slowly and slowly I started writing for my own personal therapy. And this, that's where unlearn the book came from the book came from me, being so sick of hearing motivational quotes tumbler quotes and all this other stuff. That's just promising you to make life feel better. But there's no pragmatism to there was no practicality to it. None of it was going to help me get out of debt. Telling me to don't worry God has a plan. God doesn't close the door without opening a window like all this stuff to just cheesy and corny. How's this going to help me, pay my mortgage houses going to help me, pay back, my friends, and I started writing in those conversations, I had is, you know, I when I started writing them I started sharing them with my followers on. Book and they were the ones that said, you should write a book because they started connecting with the two because I realized we're all in the same boat. You know, even to this day I can leave conversations of philosophy and start talking about how to get out of debt financial literacy, and people really so many people are suffering with that by themselves. You know, and me saying, like kids, the real thing, you're going to, you know dream about what, what real adult dream about having zero balance on that credit card. They don't dream about the things that, you know that you think you're gonna like this is what matters and don't sign up for that credit card when you're in university, even though this fifty stalls around your frosh week and financial literacy was a big one realizing that, wow, like my parents were really good with money very frugal with money. That didn't mean I was because, you know, I, I was the youngest, I had the privileges I wasn't there when we had fifteen living in the one bedroom. I wasn't there by the time I was born my parents had figured out how to get a house. So relax really, it's really just been the last with four or five years that everything has kind of substantially turned around, and it's you putting your head down and saying, okay, not only gonna do the work to pay back everyone to pay back, but I didn't do the work that creates that grass roots. Every day trying it out ground swell that every musician has talked about having to put their head down and do, and tour and do things for free and go to all these different places and show up in rooms where they're six people. Remember there for like whatever's being free and doing that for years. And then slowly learning highly build and build and build as AMI so fascinating to me that, like this whole time, there's a part of you that there's always a part of you that knows like amac, I'm really smart. I could very easily at any given moment. Even as we sit here to any given moment you could very easily turn back to that side of you to the mass, the IT side, you know, and step into a career in that hot, where you have great paycheck, stable job and do all this stuff. And yet something, you know, a switch was flipping in your said that is not an option, you know, like there's the, there's the creative side to me. And the only thing he like worse than letting it out is keeping it in. The one thousand I had a lot of suffering. Like the only thing that's more severing is, is still out of joy to like not doing this would be even worse. I mean we, we all grew up in zoo. And then every so often, we get exposed to the jungle, and I think, you know, the bubbles that I had I had a very comfortable cage, I had a very and that was plugged in to the economy of plugged into the system and art wasn't something I created it was only on consumed. You know what I watched after work, or it was what I played on the radio. When I get when I got stuck in traffic and the moment, I saw what freedom could look like which is the jungle it excited me because I was like, oh, this, there's there's much less constraint here. But what I hadn't thought about yet, but there's also nobody there to feed you. There's also nobody there to protect you. You're gonna have to figure this out by yourself and any animal. You encounter may not be a friendly animal. Well now they might be looking rip your head up. And I got my head ripped off a few times. And I got my book the few times. And that's when I slow and no different than somebody moving out to New York from small town. You know, they they get they get their buck the few times, the skin gets a little bit thicker and then they graduate to become a New Yorker. And I think it was the same thing with me. It was just mean life in general. It was just, you know, and now my relationship with freedom and my relationship with all of this has dramatically changed. I realized that the romantic idea like, oh, leave a nine to five so I can, you know, do whatever I want. Well, you leaving nine to five to work twenty four seven. Yeah, that's the trade off. I mean you're at a point in your career. Now where you've had a nice level of success, where you're well known where you have a certain amount of freedom financial and creative to you've built back, you know, to, to stand out there and create the word that you wanna create and do what you wanna do. And continue you're still early on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lot of years left. Do this. Do you recognize you do feel like there was a moment where you're kind of like I've turned the page? Do you feel like you're there now? Or do you feel like that moment exists? I was waiting for that moment. I was waiting for that moment to y'all. You're no longer struggling, and you can be that artists that you thought you were in twenty eleven. There was a lot of trauma. I went through I found light at the end of the tunnel, 'cause I Doug, I clawed, I fought and, you know, you don't exit a war zone. You know, unscathed, physically or mentally. So there was a lot of becoming self aware of who I was the what ended up happening was, you know, as in everybody can can relate to this as you climb to the next level in any capacity was intellectually financially. You get access to new circles, where you're chievements adrift. You know make a million dollars. You're gonna meet a bunch of people ten million dollars continue walking to New York where the hierarchies you know, you can't even think of high. Hierarchy in the more you climb one ladder make it to the top. Then you realize you're at the bottom of another letter, I think, for me when I started going out to LA a lot, and meeting people who are making enormous sums of money super successful being creative living, the dream, either Hollywood elites seeing how that they weren't happy and it wasn't that their job was making them happy, it was that life is full of challenges. No matter who you are, it doesn't matter what your circumstances, are you can win the Powerball. You're gonna have a challenge the next day. This is what life. This is the contract of life. You know, you you solve problems. You create another one, and that really got to me in the beginning of motion, because I was still struggling financially, and I was kind of resentful like how, how are you making hundred grand a month? And you're crying right now over girl, I can't even afford to cry over girl. I can't afford to waste the calories even speaking to I can't take a girl out to dinner for her to not call me back. You know, I can barely pay my phone Bill right now. And you're crying over like these petty. Things is not even real. But what that also eventually was made me realize that, hey, you'll be in the same position when you're in their tax bracket, you're gonna you're still going to have problems, this money is not going to make you feel better about yourself, does money's not gonna make it easier to trust people with the money's gonna come new challenges. You're never going to be able to kick your feet up and be like. I made it was going to happen is life will never get easier. You've just have to continue getting stronger. And now you just have to decide, are you going to keep climbing gonna keep playing video game the way you're playing which is earned more, you know, get out, you? We had to get two zero that was important. And then once we got two zero we realized, hey, we know how to go from negative eighty thousand zero than we know how to go from zero to the moon, and then I started focusing on that. And then that started spilling into my creativity and being like, oh, am I making music for the sake of making music making what's going to work? What might get the views what might be on brand or on trend? And I found myself getting lost in that. And a lot has to do with the people that was around. They weren't necessarily bad influences, but we all identify the gaps in our lives in relation to the people around. You know somebody has lower body fat than us. And we think we gotta fix that. Somebody has better hustle situation. And we think about that. Somebody has. Money than we think about that. And it was only recently, probably in the last maybe two two years, where I said to myself, you have to chase the fun. You have to chase the fun and it was probably through meeting. Some, some people who said, look you know, in the beginning. Hey will I you know, will I learn something will, I earn or or will they get exposure? Those are my three three things you know, it has to be two to three to say. Yes. Ten Jabre thity. And then I met somebody else's, like, what about the fun? Number one should be fun. If you're not gonna have fun, you know, unless they ridiculous paycheck, you know, it should probably be a no. Because if you start making a lot of money doing stuff that you don't like that's a whole different type of prison. And that's why a lot of these people aren't happy because they, you know, sometimes, especially with, like people in the community. A lot of these guys started in early twenties, having fun being silly on YouTube, and they built a huge following now. They're pushing. Thirty in just the person they were that got there, not that person anymore. But their audience isn't responding to their of Lucien debate. They want you to stay in a container. Yeah, that be that silly person that, you know, the dance monkey be that same person. And that's what I realize is. They don't do what works if you do what works you'll forever chase it. You'll always be chasing. You know this pave your own path a community and suck them in deeper and deeper as you go deeper and deeper. So, you know, like even with this book, does book is very simple to read this book is, you know, it's the language very simple, because this is the introduction to this journey. I mean, we should probably talk about the book little bit new in an interesting way, we've actually been talking about the book the whole time, because what writing the book is what helped me get here. Right. Saved my life and fundamentally it's, it's a compilation of one hundred and one short ideas that were awakening moments of reckoning or. A Ha's Trump's so many of which you share just to your own story, completely, you know, and it's called it's called online, which I kind of cool title kinda like okay so we've all learned to be a certain way in the world. And this is how you get there. And part of the process is you. There's a certain amount of, of learning about like a different way. But also before you do that there's certain amount of on learning completely. Yeah. And that's what I realize as I went and other sort, making progress. It was like, I'm not picking up as much I'm letting goal up more, you know. And I had to let go of my expectations, you know, I expected people to be nice to me as long as I was nice to them. You know, expected the world to be fair, I expect to look at the world in terms of fairness, you know, and then you learn and business that there's no such thing as a fair deal is just whatever you go, she ate and whatever made sense that day, whatever people agreed upon and you're like, oh, there's not even a benchmark for the I had to learn that I have more power over my expectations and my attitude. Than I do over anything else and my effort, these are the things that have power over. I don't have power over what's going to happen. How ideal that is what have power over as I learned his lesson that get excited to write them down? And, you know, they became the book and the book you know, turned into something that I was able to use and sell that my shows, you know, it'd be doing a hip hop show, and then sell the book after. But most of my show would be me talking, you know, I'd form one song. And then just get lost in, you know, Conair calls it a stream consciousness and Nadia's. Never mind it in mind, and slowly, the audience went from young kids, love and hip hop to, to mainly young girls holding the book and wanting to reach from it and wanting me to sign the book after so that incorporated that all into my shows, and I was booking my own shows, you know, I would I would pick a city at crowd funded and crowd funded the book as well. Right. 'cause he originally was five years ago. Now. All right. When fourteen right, so you crowd fund that you put it out there. It becomes a part of your workout in the world, a revenue source for you to your. Urging learning again, and that three books day as my average was three books day, and like religiously, it would sell three books day, whether I promoted or not, that's and now it's it's out as like a big mainstream buck with big mainstream publisher. So. As we sit here today, and they said, still feels like you're in this place of emergence, like you're, you're way, further into it than you were four or five years ago. But still, there's so much more coming than there is behind you, at least in terms of like this, this, this work. Yeah. And unfortunately, that I that I that I work with people who have come up further, and I can really see the pitfalls ahead of time. And that's really allowing me to set my own personal coda values in priorities to avoid some of that. So I mean you know, the book was independent and then three years later it got picked up by a bookstore by indigo. They put it on their shelves. They published for our non Canadian listeners, by the way. That's like a giant bookstore in Canada though the biggest bookstore pretty much the only bookstore chain in Canada. They bought all the other ones up and they. They reached out to me and said, hey, we would love to license this out in publish it under our imprint. And the moment they did it became a bestseller in Canada. And then that's what got me the attention the states. So this book is that had such an organic, like it didn't have an overnight success. They went three years, independent, then it became a nationwide phenomenon in my home country. And then it went international after that. Yeah. Which is kinda fitting the journey ban on one thousand percent. It's you don't skip steps, you know, there's no elevator escalator, even stairs to the top, you're literally have to crawl the beside of, of the mountain, and as you start climbing, you start to realize, if you look at everybody who's above you, you'll never find any gratitude and appreciation. If you look at everybody below you, you're just going to be living in fear that you don't wanna be them. So just have fun. The reward is the climbing. The reward is the view the reward our unique experiences. So that's where I'm at where they know if I add a couple more zeros to. My net worth is not it will not fulfill some promise that, I can make myself that I'll be content or feel certain ways. So now everything's a lot more pragmatic. It's like, okay, how much do I need to pay my parents bills? And you know they're getting old. I want to save up get them. You know, an Thomas car because I don't want them the traffic accident because they refuse to stop driving. You know what do I need to do for them? How do I take care of the people? I care about and selfishly. How do I ensure I have enough money that I can jump on a flight anytime anywhere and not cringe when I put my credit card number, and like, whoa, what do I have to do? And I've given myself a number, and that number does not promise me ever lasting happiness, that promises that number does not give me eternal wealth. It doesn't give me a terminal satisfaction is just right. That this is a number where all your things that you want will be taken care of, and I'll be mindful when you start hanging out with all these other rich people that they might skew your number. Because you start seeing the things that they have, and now you want that stuff yourself really know what your priorities are in. So I think I'm fortunate because I'm looking critically at those who came before me and have a chief things, and I'm learning the lessons from them and that required. A lot of on learning required. A lot of letting go of what I thought it meant to have success, what I thought it meant to be creative. Like you know, there's one thing to be creative. Which we all are we all are artists. We all are storytellers. But if you wanna mix that with commerce. If there's a whole different world, and you have to understand you may actually be killing something you love. Yeah. 'cause if you know, if you enjoy painting bowls of fruit, it won't be as enjoyable when you start involving money and deadlines and people's expectations and opinions. And if that fruit has to pay mortgage. Yeah, fill your mortgage, and I realized I have I have a friend right now with a very successful entertainer. And they decided that they needed to do a new art that would never be for profit, and this parties. They made it all about parties now. And nobody knows that they thought these parties, they just throw them. They organize them. They cut all the, the decorations up put all the decorations themselves, and they can hire people to do it, but they don't because they're doing it because the work is the reward. That's important were of that feels like good place for us to start come full circle also. So if Al for the term to livid left here, what comes up? Good. Life is to, to live on your own terms and to be able to. Understand that you are free to do as you please. But you are not free from the consequences of choices and live, a good life is to be able to own that idea where I say, I'm going to do as I, please. But I won't be devastated. If the consequences don't work out in my in my way, his caused -ality isn't is rarely surprising. You know if you. You know, go party, eat dinner out every single night in New York, you should not be surprised when your credit card Bill comes back and you like that phone number. You know, so for me to live, a good life is to understand that and understand the importance of the world around you in the world in you and what their relationship is. And if you can do that you can live in amazing life because this world is just fantastic. And I think the last part that I believe is essential to living good life. It's understand it. You will live better life. If you yourself as a tool, and as a resource to the rest of life, you know, we don't have a life. We are life were part of this puzzle were part where dropping this ocean? And if we focus on. Being a resource for others being resource for this creation. Not simply thing, a these animals are here for me to eat these trees are here for me to cut these people are here are here to help progress. My career everybody's here for me. You'll be a lot less isolated and we need connection with other people in the deeper connection when you focus on service instead of the ways that we're building connection right now. Whether it's social media, whether it's self pity, whether it's tribalism, you know, instead, focus on being of service other people focus on being useful to other people and other things. And I think that will provide a life of a lot less resistance. Nobody really gets an away when we wanna help and that will help us increase the way we feel and it will also gift us. Many, many, many unique stimulating experiences. So. Can I ask you to share something a little either? Something spoken word or something that comes to mind, a wrote a poem in honor of my dad called life of an immigrant. And it's one that I do love to share feel a lot of people connect with it on different levels. So they told them the grass was greener with a endless flooded possibilities, Katrina watch him, John in debt land confiscated by the local governments. So he flies high jet plane playing close. Just expose them to the harsh winters, the life, but his wife won't know about the sweat soaked, in the banknote. Sweat home spoi- getting grown. He starts grown his stomachs rumbling hungry for better life now. He's stumbling over four and phonetics those verb tenses, they laughing at his accent is not an accident though. His master's economics is an honored most economic forefather to hop his ass in a cab, never bother getting out that car or is dreams memorized, the row and collect the fair. It is fair when they say you don't belong here, which along beard in the tower around your head here, what was said, so can the hate can you relate? Life of an immigrant. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who helped make this show possible. You can check them out in the links. We have included intra-day show notes, and while you're at it if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparky type dot com. That's S. P. A. R. K E. T Y, P dot com or just click the link in the show notes. And of course if you haven't already done so be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening. So you never miss episode and then share share the love, if there's something that you've heard in this episode that you will love to turn into a conversation share it with people and have that conversation because when ideas become conversations that lead to action. That's when real change takes hold. Cenex time.
Fan Favorite: Why are we so Nostalgic for Sugary Breakfast Cereals?
"Have you ever wondered how far people would actually go for Klondike? Well, that's why on affairs is going undercover and a new snack size series. Watch on a disguise herself and go undercover with a hidden camera to find out what crazy things real people would do for their favorite ice cream. You can see the full videos at Klondike dot com slash videos, and also share what you would do for a Klondike bar by using the hashtag hashtag for a Klondike. That's hashtag the number four. The letter A Klondike show us what you'll do for a Klondike bar. Welcome to part time genius production of iheartradio. Guess what? Will, what's that mango so ever? I we can college. I remember being in line for breakfast. And there was just this wall of amazing breakfast cereals, I remember this, and we were of course, away from our parents for the first time and being independent and responsible. And so I had my bowl high with lucky charms. I mean, I think it was lucky charms, but whatever was the most nutritious cereal out there a love that when you were finally like free from the oversight of your parents like that was the first thing express your freedom, was like get a big bowl of cereal. But yes, I do remember that big awesome wall of cereal and the people we were with started making fun of me for eating kid cereal, instead of muesli or whatever. And right. Then the star basketball recruit Elden brand walked up and got a bowl of the same thing, and it was just pure silent felt like such a trendsetter remembered that that's when you became the most popular kid on campus. Not really. But part of the reason I love breakfast cereal so much. And, you know, we used to have big parties mental flaws where everyone would bring box of their favorite cereal. But there's just such a wonderful association with childhood and, and Saturday morning cartoons. And that's actually why we're talking about serial today. Let's dig in. Podcast listeners. Welcome to part time genius. I'm Wilkerson, and as always, I'm joined by my good friend Mangueira, I'll take her and the man on the other side of the soundproof glass, eating a big bowl of frosted many weeks. Good choice today. Our producer, trysts McNeil, but today, we're heading back to the grocery all for a closer look at all things cereal. You know, the most whimsical nutritionally questionable at all of this at every part of a complete breakfast. And so we'll dig into the weird stories and surprising facts behind our favorite brands as well as a few of the lesser known breakfast, cereals that time forgot then little bit later. We'll be joined by gave funds Secca. He's a TV writer, and he spent more than a decade collecting childhood nostalgia, in the form of vintage cereal boxes. It's a fascinating collection. Yeah. And he's also the host of this really fun YouTube series called serial time, which is the series on the subject of breakfast cereal. I mean he's been doing it for a couple of years now. So I'm super excited to just hear how he got started. Yeah. Well, among the most devout of cereal enthusiasts, but he's definitely not alone in this mean lots of people love cereals and in the hundred and fifty plus years, since it came onto the market, cold breakfast. Fearless become a staple. For millions of people around the world. And you know strangely this love affair. Got it start in the late nineteenth century kind of as an accident, you know, is this invention of fundamentalist Christians who were seeking to promote a healthy sin free lifestyle, and much of this is, you know, stories that people have heard, but it's still pretty interesting. The bland foods, as you know, like toasted corn and oats where they were thought to help suppress sexual urges and prevent arousal. And so this thinking led to the creation of a few notable foods including Graham, crackers, of course. But the one that really caught on what the public was cereal. So Dr John Harvey Kellogg, the superintendent of a sanitarium in battle creek Michigan, and his younger brother will they stumbled upon the recipe for what would alternately become cornflakes after allowing some of the cook? Tweet to sit out for too long. The Kelloggs return to find the we'd had gone stale, but rather than toss it out, as you might think they would they decided to roll it out into thin flakes, and then toast them and the cornflakes were a big hit with their patients. So the Kellogg's decided to start marketing them to a broader public yen as interesting as that early history is, it's pretty familiar by this point. So instead of going deep on sanitariums and grape nuts where we're going to focus mostly on the second act of the serial story that's the period from about nineteen fifty to the early nineties, when marketing to children really took off and sugary cereals really began flooding grocery store, aisles. Well before we dive into that colorful, history I thought we could take a quick look at the state of cereal today, just by the numbers and it's amazing. How far cereal is come from its earlier's as this niche product to the mammoth industry that it is now. So just looking at the US market alone. The breakfast cereal industry now generates nearly ten billion dollars in annual revenue and. That's according to Mortimer intelligence. Did you say mortar kid? A hobbit. It's kind of jarring name, if you're a Lord of the rings fan, but it's just coincidence. Unfortunately. But, like I was saying Americans lead the world and cereal consumption it ranks fourth on the list of the top ten package goods sold in the US and ninety two percent of American households. Buy a box of cereal at least once a year, and we're not the only ones who love it Canada, the UK, Australia. They all have cereal markets that rival the size of our own in recent years, cereal, is also gained in places like China and India and Brazil. In fact, the breakfast cereal marketing industry rakes in about thirty five billion dollars in revenue each year from the foreign markets. So I when I took my kids to India last year. I remember waking up jetlag the first day and they were already up watching cartoons. And we're wired on a bowl of Choco's. We didn't have Choco's. In all my years ago India, though, we never ate breakfast, and we never in front of the TV, so it was almost jarring to see this American experience transplanted to India, but, you know, sugar in green is obviously, this winning combination but I have seen a few reports about sagging sales as more and more people for either easier or healthier breakfast options. So pop tarts, or avocado toast, or you know, maybe a quick trip to the drive through on the way to work. And, and of course, there's this growing segment of the population that just doesn't eat breakfast, period. So when you were listing those easier, and healthier options, and you said, pop tarts, which one of, I'm guessing that's the easier, but they are delicious. Well as big as the cereal industry is today. There's no question that it used to be bigger so- Cording to NPR serial consumption peaked right around nineteen ninety six I guess it was and steadily gone downhill ever since generally by a full percentage point each year. And while the stuff you mentioned is definitely played a part in that decline. It's really. Due to a combination of factors. You know, for example, back in nineteen ninety lawmakers passed the nutrition and labeling education, act, and that made it mandatory for all products to include the now, commonplace list of nutrition facts, on the packaging, and this made it easier than ever for consumers to see the nutritional value or lack thereof, I guess, and they could look at this and all of their cereals, now at this point, and as more people became educated, about just how much sugar and carbs, they were eating or feeding to their kids. You know, they started to think twice before tossing a box in the car, whenever they with grocery store. So I looked into just how sugary cereal can be and it's insane like the whole cereal industry uses around eight hundred sixteen million pounds of sugar in his products every year. Oh, and apparently most of that's going into Honey smacks. For some reason, you know out there. That's the one with the cool frog wearing the backwards baseball cap on the box that you were talking to me for saying, no, Honey smacks. Go. Come on. Well Honey, specs is consistently ranked the worst serial for your health, because it has less than two grams of fiber per serving and it's ingredients break down to almost sixty percent sugar. It's tasty. But according to the environmental working group, there's more sugar in one Cup serving of Honey smacks, than there isn't a hostess twinkie, no way suite obviously. And I knew it wasn't good for you. But honestly, like the taste of honeystone, I wouldn't have guessed most sugary cereal that it kind of makes my teeth or just thinking about them. And you know that, that sugar to fiber ratio might make us cringe, but there's one particular Syra leading demographic that you're not gonna hear complaining about this, and that's kids or at least my kids, my kids to actually, do you, remember there was this great Calvin and Hobbes where Kelvin's eating his favorites. Cereal. I think it's something like chocolate frosted sugar bombs, and he gives Hobbs try and hav just shaking gagging from the sweetness and Calvin says actually they're kind of land till you scoop some sugar. But when it find really interesting is how deeply ingrained the fondness for breakfast cereal is, and so many people, and how so much of that seems rooted in their childhood. Yeah. I mean I'd say for most adults here leaders, it's a big part of the allure. I mean it's what you were saying about your kids. There's these, you know memories of watching Saturday morning cartoons with a big bowl of Cap'n crunch in your hand. Or maybe indulging in a late night, fix of lucky charms sitting in your college dorm of you're talking about right. Well, it sort of a comfort food in a way, it takes us back to simpler days, when most of us were a little more carefree about what we ate and why. Yeah. So nostalgia is definitely a strong factor, actually, what are some of the weirdest discontinued cereals? You can think of I was trying to think about this earlier. And I remember seeing a q-bert cereal. And when I was a kid, did you remember Cuba? That video game character and also eating one with Smurfs Aries like my parents only really butter sugar cereals for maybe a year or two. But I remember sampling some weird ones. Yeah. I mean, I always thought it was completely bonkers that some cereals didn't even mask the fact that they were candy like, you know, Kellogg's did a candy corn pops. But even more blatant in that there was a nerds Syria ticked off that I never tried. It incurred cereal. By the way listeners, I just wanted to break, I because willin I've been debating what the fischel candy of part time genius should be and will was saying it should be atomic. Fireballs obviously. And I was thinking nerd, so if you have any thoughts on this, please let us know on Facebook Twitter, but will you're right. Nerd cereal isn't saying, but looking back like the box was so cool. It came in these two flavors, just like the candies and you could pour aren't out of one side, and cherry out. Can you imagine like who would let their kids by this probably? It also makes me wonder like if so much cereals appeal is rooted in the past. Like what does this say about our future? Well, you know, there's a new generation of kids getting hooked on cereal now and many of them will stick with it into adulthood. And that's part of the reason there's so many brands, duping it out, trying to get kids to eat these serious because people's breakfast routines tend to be the same. You know pretty much every day. But there's another point to consider those declining sales numbers. We mentioned earlier also coincide with declining birth rate. So, you know, I it's, it's not like the birth rate will ever drop to zero or anything like that. But fewer kids does result in fewer cereal fans. Obviously, it's funny that's something that started out as health food became so dependent on selling sugar to kids. But I guess that's usually how it goes with food trends like someone with these very altruistic intentions gets the ball rolling, hoping to better society. And then, you know, at a certain point the marketing team steps in right? Yeah. Dr Kellogg used to give, lectures about his methods for leading a healthy lifestyle. And he would sometimes give out the recipes for his cornflakes so that people could make them at home. And at one talk, he told the crowd, you may say, I'm destroying the health food business here by giving these recipes but I'm not after the business, I'm after reform. I mean, yeah, he really did seem to believe in what he was selling. Sure. But the problem was that the same can be said of his brother, will call, and we'll tried for years to convince his brother adds sugar to their cereal believing. It would add some flavor to what he called horse food, but the tipping point came into late forties. When their competitor post cereals released sugar, crisp so posted branched out beyond the health food market with its first sugar coated cereal. And like it or not Kellogg, kind of had to follow suit. Yeah. But it's really post World War Two that the industry started to focus on marketing directly to kids. I mean co companies had dabbled with these ads before including Kellogg's use of snap, crackle, and pop as a characters for Rice Krispies, and that marketing began in the nineteen th. Thirties. But even with cartoon gnomes, pleading their case, you know, these, these highly processed, oats and grains, were a tough sell without adding something sweet to it. That's crazy, though. I like I had no idea that the rice Cruces trio had been around that long. I thought they were post fifties like most other cereal mascots. Yeah. Snap, crackle, and pop. Or actually, one of the longest running ad campaigns in history. And as I was looking up there actually v longest for cereal brands actually, by the way. Did you know that their names are on amount of Pia? Sounds for what you hear when milk is added to the cereal. But apparently Rice, Krispies were always marketed as the serial you can hear and this was even before the mascots came along. In fact, the guy who created the characters did, so after being inspired by one of the brand's previous radio jingles. And because I know you're dying to know what it was. You're the Cy jotted them down. So. All right. Listen to the ferry song of help, the Mary, chorus sung by Kellogg's Rice Krispies as they merely snap, crackle, and pop in a bowl of milk. If you've never heard food talking now. Your chance. I'm so hungry for the serial. Now, why didn't they do this before thousand jingle like it doesn't even run? I was going to put it to song just made up against it. So I mean obviously mascots were smart move since it's hard to market like a fairy song of health without them, but wasn't there? Also a fourth Nome for awhile. Yeah. You bet there was. How he stood for the cereals nutritional punch. I think, and of course he didn't last very long but let's get this back on track. So gradually, the Sweden. Cereals, come to dominate the market. Thanks, you know, because of product placement and children's programming. And they've never looked back since in. In fact, the breakfast industry is still one of the top spenders for a commercial airtime. More than a million cereal ads air on TV each year, which cost companies like post and Kellogg's more than I wanna say like half a billion dollars. Yeah. Well, so all those old TV ads are big part of why cold cereal took such a hold in the hearts and minds of baby boomers, and then they of course passed on that faunas to their now adult children. But, you know, there's another element that helped endear entire generations to breakfast cereal that I wanna talk about it, and that's the prizes that came packed inside those boxes. I mean the president's played such a big role like I might have wind box of cookie crisp. But if the apple jacks, had one of those wacky wall walkers in it, I mean, you remember those sticky octopuses that will walk down the wall. Walls horse. Yeah. Then, of course that's the box I'd end up with. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you on that extra. I would buy a box of cereal for one of those now it's been years since I've played one. They were awesome. But you know, let's talk a little bit about how toys and games ended up inside the boxes as well as some of the coolest strangest ones that come along over the years. But before we do that, let's break for a quiz. With the discovery it miles card. You can go further than you've ever gone, before, like son in your face book in your hand kids playing in the sand further because the discover it miles card offers unlimited one point five miles on every purchase, and they'll automatically match all the miles you earn at the end of your first year. So you're thirty five thousand miles could become seventy thousand. It's just that easy. Get out there with you. Discover it miles card today. Limitations apply. Discover match for new card members only learn more at discover dot com slash travel. Gabe fund sicko on the program accomplished, TV writer, but he's also got the best on boxing series on YouTube. It's called serial time TV and this is where he unblocks is in reviews incredible breakfast. Cereals, welcome to part time genius, Gabe, thanks for having me. I'm I'm a fan of the podcast. So I'm honored to be on Joe. Thank you so much. Now, I know you're out in Los Angeles main guess she's actually on vacation today. He's out on your coast in Portland. So he sends his best, but, but I hope you're still willing to chat with me today. How of course, of course right now? So we've read that you have over three hundred cereal boxes in your collection, and I have to ask, like, how did you get into this, in the first place and water? Some of your more prize cereal boxes. You know, I've always been a collector. And I think at one point I saw Spiderman so that was my first box it was from nineteen ninety five zero and I, I saw it on EBay when I was just browsing and I was gonna be cool to have them. Bookshelf, and I bought it, and then, and then I was like, well, you know what? There's other ones that I remember from back in the day, and, and then it kinda just turned into this black hole on EBay where I just would was scouring and finding old cereals that brought back these memories to me. Well, no, I think I've read that you've tried some even some like thirty year old cereals. Is this, right? Yeah, yeah. When I first started this embossing channel and YouTube, and I started it because I started run out of room of just having these unopened cereal boxes on my shelf, and it was like, you know, this is just taking up space. And this is kind of silly, I could just flat out. So I, I decided like, well, let's for posterity let's just record myself opening these boxes. And you know, recording with Syria looks like documented it. So I'll have it, you know, for posterity and, and I never thought I was gonna try them, and then I'd open some boxes and I. Well, let me just see if it holds up. I think the oldest one I might have tried was a, a grin, smiles giggles and lasts area, which was from the seventies, I believe. That was pretty gross. I'm guessing. Oh man. They're terrible. They just don't you know, it tastes mostly, like it tastes like the plastic in a way, it takes toxic and disgusting. But I would I definitely do not recommend it. I can't imagine now in, in terms of cereals, are there, any that you wish you could have tasted. If you could go back in time. There's one from before my time in the seventies called, sir. Great fellow. It was actually they really are great. Fellow and baron von read bury. They were general mills cereals, and the great fellow when tasted like, you know, great great cereal. Great kool-aid. I imagine I never actually got to try it, but I'm a I'm a sucker for grape flavored things, and, and even though I got a nerd Syria, which came out in the eighties, which I, which I got to try back back, then I it just wasn't the same. You know, wasn't it wasn't that great, great flavor? It was kind of it wasn't a great zero and so great film. Just like I look at the ad campaigns. I see on YouTube, and I'm just like this. This is like this is great. I really wish I was alive for this one. I could I could try that one. Boxes you'd love that your collection, but haven't been able to get a hold of for me. I kinda this point, I feel like I'm at peace, and I've kind of completed my collection and kind of everything I want one really random Serio from general mills in the nineties, it was called when you lead does. And I remember it was on shelves for a limited time. And I just can't find a box of that anywhere. And that's probably like the last, you know, my great, you know, white whale that I'm trying to obtain still. Here again, your voice that maybe you're not quite at peace, yet until you find fun. If, if any of our listeners out there know how to get a hold of some did you say? Boy, nearly tos. All right. We'll see what we can do for you. So they'll be a free part time. Genius t shirt on the line for these people. But, but before we let you go mango, did, leave me, a quiz, titled the most important meal quiz of the day. So I'm going to ask you a few questions. If you obscure cereal questions and all you gotta do his answer them. How's that sound? All right. I'll give it my all right question, number one, according to a nineteen fifty-six confidential magazine report. What breakfast cereal was supposedly responsible for Frank Sinatra's success with women. It's gotta be weedy. It is weeds. Yeah. The article claim that Sinatra could thank weeds for his reputation as the quote Tarzan of the Bouda, so, yes. Congratulations there. All right. One for one question over to before a certain tiger became spokes animal for this breakfast cereal. He had to beat out three other contenders. Elmo the elephant new, the new and Katy the kangaroo. What cereal are we talking about frosted flakes? That's. That's right. It's frosted flakes now. Katie actually appeared on boxes in the nineteen fifties before, Tony the tiger started out selling her. All right. Here we go question. Number three. What popular breakfast cereal created by John Harvey Kellogg, was eaten aboard the Apollo eleven. Cereal board the follow Rice Krispies, it's a pretty good. Guess it was actually Kelloggs cornflakes. And so the Sierra was mixed up with fruit and formed into cube since eating it with milk was impossible without gravity. All right to for three the last question, here, the big prize is on the line while Saddam Hussein loved raisin bran and requested it for breakfast in prison. He detested this serial. Oh, I actually read the article about that fruit loops. Yes, it is fruit loops, and according to US soldiers, one of the few times, he actually looked defeated in prison was when a bowl of the fruity cereal was brought to him but so. Congratulations. You got three out of four which qualifies you for our top prize? Which is a note to your mom or your boss, singing your praises so gave congratulations. And thanks so much for joining us on part time genius. We'll, thanks for having me. Well, it's been great. Thank you very much. He there part time genius listeners got something for our small business owners out there, people who may want to produce their own podcast. We all know that being plugged in and prepared when an opportunity comes up, it's pretty crucial. Those moments happen all the time. I mean they're happening right now. In fact, so having a business car that shows how professional you are in your own pocket. Ready to hand out that's the first step to making something happen, your next big opportunity is coming right now. And all it takes to feel like you're ready to own the now is ten dollars. That's a low price to have the confidence that you're always ready to make an impression or get seen in a new way there dozens of designs that are just right for your business. You can add your logo contact information with just a few clicks, your satisfaction is one hundred percent guaranteed now. Vistaprint wants you to be able to own the now in any situation, which is why our listeners will get five hundred high quality custom business cards starting at just nine ninety nine just go to vistaprint. Dot com slash genius. That's vistaprint dot com slash genius. One more time. Vistaprint dot com slash genius. You're listening to genus and we're talking about the heyday of breakfast cereal. You know, when kids became the target market, and nutrition kind of took a back seat to things like marshmallows and prizes. And speaking of cereal box prizes. You know, those were another way that Kellogg, tried to attract kids to cereal in the pre sugar days and nineteen forty-three. The company started putting pin back buttons inside boxes of their Pepsi real. So they started with a series of thirty six pins, that featured World War, Two squadron insignia from the US military, and this was before switching over to fictional heroes, like comic book characters. Yes. Doesn't some of the earliest in-box prizes. We know about. But if we're talking buttons, my favorites are the urkel for president campaign buttons. They were giving out during the Clinton Bush senior campaign. Do you remember those Steve urkel family? I can't say I remember running for president. But what cereal was that urkel os horse? It was one of those short lived novelty cereals that crops up for a few months. And then disappears like. Basically, it was a sweeter version of chairs but wackier with banana strawberry flavors. But obviously we're getting ahead of ourselves with all these in the box buttons, because Kellogg's actually got into the price game long before that in the earlier, days, the prizes or premiums to call them in the industry weren't in the box at all. And as far as we know the first prize used market cereal was this ninety-nine children's book, it was called the funny jungle and moving pictures book. And it was given to customers who bought two boxes of Kellogg's cornflakes at participating grocery stores after a couple years, of course, Kellogg's decide to stop handing out the books on location instead offered them as mail an offer and within four years. The company distributed two point five million copies of the insane. Like it was obviously a hit with customers Kellogg kept releasing new additions, and they kept going on with jungle books, all the way up until nineteen thirty seven I mean, I guess that's pretty cool. I have to say, I was never a fan of those male. And prizes. I mean, I was all about the instant gratification, you know, want to dig in elbow, deep cocoa puffs or something, and just be able to fish around and find that cellophane bag, and then you got to eat the cereal dust off your arm. Those were definitely the days, but I never really minded the mail. Like I was partly the joy of receiving any kind of males kid, the fact that anyone was sending me anything was exciting enough, even if I had to save up like a bunch of box tops. Wait six to eight weeks to make it happen, though. That was mostly dying at the time we were kids, I remember doing it a few times. But you know that the real reason the cereal industry stepped up its game. And the prize game, specifically in the nineteen fifties is pretty interesting. And it's thanks to the invention of what was called the screw injection molding machine. And, and that's what made plastic prizes faster and cheaper to produce in this wasn't the only time the inventor of injection moulding, then was James Watson Henry would lend a hand to cereal prizes. So in the nineteen seventies Hendry's develop the. Gas assisted injection molding process. And this is what made it possible to produce these finely detailed hollow plastic objects. You know, the ones that environmental groups love so much, this cut caused even more and pave the way to golden age of these in-box cereal prizes that flames the cool prizes. I found were from the sixties and seventies yeah, EV course I'd be remiss if we didn't mention the Bose's whistle that came inside the box of Cap'n crunch in the early seventies talking about things, we'd be remiss not mentioning about Cap'n crunch. What about John Lewis foot, which was Kevin crunches, stinky, barefooted rifle? But anyway, gone with your whistle story. Was this, like, really high fish little whistle. And the Bose's was was one that was historically used on naval ships when commanders need to pass orders to the crew. But couldn't be heard because of the waves or whether or whatever, and these days, it's mostly using naval ceremonies Beden, Cap'n, crunch is case it turned out that when you covered one of the whistles holes, and blew it produced this frequency of twenty six hundred Hertz, which was the exact tone AT and T us to control his long distance lines and, basically, this legendary hacker, John, Thomas Draper, who is also known as Cap'n crunch crunch, or crunch, man. He learned that he could use one of the whistles to hack the phone system and get free long distance calls loves it. They figured. It's why that old hacking magazine was actually called twenty six hundred and then why Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak even track down the whistle and built a box that replicated the frequency to try imprint call the pope. I love that. I love that. They pretend to be Henry Kissinger, and it almost got there until there's like suspicious Bishop caught on. And then the pope didn't get on those pesky Bishop while injection moulding allowed for all kinds of awesome plastic toys. You know, some of the funniest ones, I came across we're actually, even like metal or some of them, even paper in nineteen fifty four Wheaties gave away, these miniature state license plates, and they were made of solid steel, and you've got one in each box, but you could also buy them in four sets of twelve by mailing box top and a quarter a whopping quarter and that the only hitch to this was that Alaska Hawaii had not yet, but come states, so there were actually only forty eight plates, and all, I mean, so do you think people were like pissed when those two states got statehood of? A few years later and suddenly, their collections were incomplete actually postseason did release a set of, of the full fifty later on, but apparently weedy still gets letters about the original campaign to this day. So maybe, there's still a few determined fans out there, just pestering them about their missing plates or something. I hope so. But one of the most unique prices I read about was this paper prize. It was a deed to one inch of land in the Yukon waiters. A cereal company was giving away land by the inch a great idea. Right. So Quaker Oats sponsor to show in the fifties called sergeant Preston of the Yukon. Remember sergeant president of the Yukon and this was their way of linking the show to the product and full disclosure. This was a male in price. But this one was totally worth the wait. So for just a single box top kids would receive a deed for one square inch of the nineteen acres of Yukon territory that Quaker at purchase and they've actually purchased this from the Canadian government for a thousand dollars. The promotion was this massive success and quickly. Out more than twenty one million in just a few away. Yeah. And lots of people would write the company or even the Canadian government from time to time to check in on their property. But sadly, the reply was not good news. Apparently none of the deed holders were actually landowners, because the individual DS were never formally registered after the recipient signed, then hot stove estano and end Canada repossessed all the land in nineteen sixty five due to non payment of get this thirty seven dollars and twenty cents in property taxes. That's for ticks. I mean, it also reminds me of the time during the eighties, when general mills started giving out actual one dollar bills as prizes and boxes of Cheerios sounds kind of like lazy like let's, let's just put a dollar. And there, except in this case, the prize was actually worth something. It's way, better than the promotion Cheerios offered in the fifties, when they gave away, color reproductions of confederate money and an album to keep them in. That's so strange. Actually, I think I'd rather have the phony deed that we sort of transitioned into these more lack. Mr. dare I say, like crappy prizes, but honestly, at least they're still prizes, and much like cereal sales cereal premium seemed to be on the decline these days. Yes, I noticed last time I was in cereals, there seemed to be fewer boxes advertising, physical prices, but there were a bunch of boxes, offering some kind of digital prize like access to an online video game. And I guess cereal premiums change to reflect the times, and most kids, these days, would prefer some type of like instant online entertainment over plastic figure, but I also read a report from the center for science in the public interest, and it determined that it was far cheaper to make an online game than to produce a traditional plastic premium and that definitely figures into the decision to scale back the physical prizes. Yeah. I think you're right in and not to mention that there have been a few safety scares that led to recalls on millions and millions of these plastic prizes that were deemed choking hazards, and it's actually the reason prizes were moved from the inside of the cereal bag itself to between the bag and the box lining this. In the early nineties cereal company saw that this was kind of a risk or a great risk. If kids accidentally started gobbling up these prices. It's, it's funny because crackerjack went through a similar judgment with the prices inside their boxes and concerns about safety and rising cost of production, next anything, but paper prices whereas these have really cool stuff in there. Like Dakota rings and tin. Soldiers mixed in and, and since crackerjack was the first food to actually offer box prices way back in nineteen twelve it kind of seems fitting that zero premiums would follow suit. Yeah. I mean that's true. But, but, but all's not lost for these in the box cereal prizes. I mean there's still some physical knickknacks sprinkled in there. But most of these are just tying with usually like big media, vents, or maybe movie releases, you know, the new Star Wars movie had some of these company that and besides there's another serial philosophy that suggests it's what's on the outside of the box that matters, not the inside. Okay. Mangoes. We've covered the actual cereal as well as the cool prizes that you find in. Inside the bag or just outside. So how about we conclude are anatomical tour of the cereal box by focusing on the box itself. Yeah, that's good. I'll start as off with little cereal box psychology back in two thousand fourteen researchers from the Cornell food, and brand lab study, eighty six different cereal box mascots, and ten grocery stores throughout New York, and Connecticut. And from this world wind tour, they found that boxes are strategically positioned to make icon act with children on average. The kid targeted cereal boxes are placed on the lower shelves usually at a height of twenty three inches while adult and cereals tend to sit higher at forty eight inch shells and to capitalize on this ideal like the mascots on the kid cereal boxes tend to feature mascots with is pointing downward and average angle of nine point six degrees. But the spokes characters on boxes of adult cereal, generally look, straight ahead. Wow. That's almost kinda creepy. So both the manufacturer and the retailer in on the scheme in and they wanted to make eye contact with their target. Markets. So why is that I understand wanting your product is visible as possible? So it attracts more attention. But why does making eye contact with the character? The spokesperson matter that much that was the question behind a second study, where researchers looked into how much I contact with cereal box characters influences people's feelings towards the brand, and they asked sixty three participants from a private Northeastern University examine a box of tricks cereal and rate their feelings of trust and connection to the brand. And the catch was that some participants were given a box where the tricks rabbit was looking straight ahead and others. Had this box with a rabbit was looking away or down from the viewer, and I'm guessing people preferred, you know, whichever rabbit was looking their way a wide margin. It's really incredible. So the finding showed that participants who had I contact with the rabbit felt sixteen percent. More brand trust silly rabbit. And they're feeling of connection to the brand was twenty eight percent higher than participants who looked at a box of tricks with. The rabbit looking away and not only that for participants who made I contact with rabbit actually said they enjoyed the serial more compared with another seal. That lacked I contact Ponant away. I mean that's so creepy. Like, it's, it's also notes that looking at a picture of a cartoon rabbit in the eyes can generate so much goodwill and actually calls us to buy the party. And the fact that they chose this crazy rabbit that works is just baffling. Yeah. But then there's an upside to the research because, now healthy cereals that are well, intentioned can actually make mascots do the same thing, but I don't wanna leave the subject of tricks, because actually I've found some interesting stuff during our research here. So, for instance, you know that before he was an animated character, the tricks rabbit was this really like Janki looking hand puppets, general mills, it was they were unsure early on of how to sell the concept of a serial obsessed rabbit, because the original slogan for the cereal was, I'm a rabbit, and rabbits are supposed to, like carrots. But I hate carrots. I like tricks really rolls off the. Yeah. And it also makes the whole silly rabbit tricks for kids campaign sound like poetry, hip, at that campaign had problems of its own. I mean for one thing it may general mills worry that they were sending a bad message by having this rabbit continually failed to achieve his goal. Charles Scholtz concluded that Charlie Brown missing the football was, what made the whole thing work. General mills took the more democratic around in nineteen seventy six they put this question to vote should the tricks, rabbit finally get to eat the cereal, he craves and kids also turned out to be more merciful than Scholtz? So almost a hundred percent of the votes were in favor of giving the rabbit, his long-awaited, and that same verdict came again during a campaign. I think it was in nineteen eighty which was the last time the rabbit got his own bowl of tricks, that's been a long time. I mean you can tell he's jonesing for bowl. No kidding. I mean so these cereal mascots tend to break down into to camp, so there's the more laid back confident relaxed characters like, Tony the tiger golden crispy, and they mostly sell cereal on the basis of their friendly demeanor and cool. Look, I mean, how cool is Tony no Bendinha jacket? And then he's unhinged cereal junkie Clinton. Just busted out of the looney bin. So these are your tricks rabbits and Sonny the cuckoo bird, and like all of these crazy characters. Yeah. Those guys pretty terrifying and most of their designs only gotten more over the top as time's gone by what do you mean by that? So two can't Sam used to have the proportions of an actual bird, but, you know, his body shave wings and feet, have slowly become more human like and, and the colors like they're all super exaggerated in brighter and bolder. And it's crazy. And actually have you seen Cap'n crunch is latest. Look like he used to be this old, weary sea-captain. But now he has these huge popping is and wide grin. And even his eyebrows gotten more excited like their way up over his hat now his hat has eyebrows impressive. I mean, there's always been something suspect about that guy anyway for being honest. Did you hear the controversy a few years back? Somebody had noticed that the sleeves of his uniform only had three yellow stripes, instead of four I love the people are paying close attention to it. But apparently that Pegues him as a commander in the navy, not a captain. So to his credit when fans called him out crunch took to Twitter to plead his case. And so here's what he said all hearsay and misunderstandings. I kept in the SS guppy with my crew, which makes an official capman my book besides it's the crunch, not the clothes that make a man almost gives me goose by speech. Great speech, but it's always been, my belief that the facts, make them in. So I think it's time for a little fact off. All right. Let's do it. I'll go first here, so. All right. So did speaking of captain crushed. Did you know that in two thousand nine a woman in California filed a class action suit against the maker of Cap'n crunch is crunch berries? And she did this because she said for four long years. She'd been eating these crunch berries, and thinking they were real fruit, strawberries, and blueberries raspberries. And of course, crunch berries. But of course, the judge in Sacramento, did not see it her way and quickly dismissed the suit. So according to one study commissioned by Kellogg. When ten percent of Americans had tried eating cereal with orange juice, or coffee, instead of milk. I mean is that true? Like have you ever done that I have never done that would ruin a bowl. No. Absolutely not. All right. Well, according to different study, women who regularly cereal before conception are slightly more likely to have boys. There's something about having a high energy and take before conceiving. They leads to these greater odds. And the food that seemed to increase the odds the most was cereal. That's crazy. So you're an oatmeal leader, right? Well, I mean, sometimes yeah, we'll do you know that the quote strawberries, and peaches, and Quaker instant oatmeal are actually dehydrated apples. I didn't know the hand the blueberries dehydrated figs, and for Quaker sake. I hope that the crunch very lady, doesn't find out at least real fruits, as true, they're real fruits. Yeah. Unlike the crunch berry so, well as kids, we always heard that we should eat a good breakfast, anytime. We need to do anything important that day. And studies do back that up often showing that breakfast eaters will perform about ten percent better on memory tests than those who skipped. But it also appears that eating not just breakfast. But specifically cereal leads to a better mood so Cording to research from Bristol university. There are long-term effects of eating cereal for breakfast, and their findings, quote, people feel better serials boosted their mood. So I mean that's just the kind of support we needed as Syria leaders, and what a happy Wade. And this episode, I'm gonna let you take home, the trophy this week and listeners if there are any great zero facts, we forgot, please. Let us know you can always write us at part time genius at how stuff works dot com or call us on our twenty four seven fact hotline one eight four four genius. You know we love hearing from you. Well, and don't forget to join us again next week when we publish episodes, asking the questions how big is the US military, and what are the worst jobs in the world, including a peek into the important world of Wales not collecting that's going to be pretty interesting. Are you? Sure. That's right. That's right. All right. Well, that's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening. Thanks again. For listening genius production of how stuff works and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant, people who do the important things we couldn't even begin to understand Tristan McNeil does the ending thing. No Brown made the theme song does the mixie mixie sound thing Kerry role in does the exact producer thing gave losers are lead researcher with support from the research arm including Austin Thomson Nolan Brown and muka Sadam gets this show to your ears. Good job Eve's, if you like what you heard we hope you'll subscribe, and if you really, really like what you've heard, maybe you can leave a good review for us to be do we forget, Jason Jason Hu. Go further than ever with the discover it miles cars, they automatically mash, the MAs you earn at the end of your first year. So you're thirty five thousand miles could become seventy thousand. Discover it miles. Limitations apply. Discover match for new card members only learn more at discover dot com slash travel.
Customers Go Nuts Over Grape Nuts Shortage
"Business wars daily is supported by microsoft teams. Microsoft teams is helping priority. Bicycles transformed the way. They work after closing their new york city showroom. They started doing virtual visits on teams. Now people from all over the world can come into their showroom learn more at microsoft dot com slash teams from wonder david brown and this is business wars daily. On this tuesday february sixteenth throughout the pandemic we've been discussing shortages ranging from toilet paper to patio heaters. But here's one that's oddly specific grape nuts. That's right the post brand cereal equivalent of tom. Brady in other words. You either love it or you hate it. His missing from many grocery store shelves despite their name grape made from either grapes nor nuts instead. They're hard little balls of malted barley flour whole grain wheat flour salt and dried. Yeast tastes like a mouth full of gravel. That is according to one wall street journal report but whether you eat them with milk or sprinkled over ice or yogurt these tough little nuggets have softened enough to keep the brand going for more than one hundred years but like so many products during the pandemic a combination of supply chain and manufacturing issues have made them tough to come by. Since late last year they're manufactured using proprietary process. That is tough to replicate. The company said in a statement. Usa today and what happens when bran loyalists get wind of a shortage. You know what happens. They start hoarding. Grape nuts fans took to social media and read it to bemoan the loss of their favourite breakfast food and there's even a secondary grape nuts market. You can find boxes on ebay for prices ranging between fifteen and two hundred bucks a piece. It's sister product rape nuts. Flakes is a little easier to find but still facing shortages in some areas post said in a facebook comment that it made changes to its production lineup to ensure that cereals in highest demand were being manufactured i so for those seeking alternatives with sky. High boost of fiber grape nuts provides. The pickings are slim but kellogg's has some options for you. All brand buds are a good alternative. Even though judges in one tampa bay tribune taste test said they looked like quote rabbit pellets Last month kelloggs also introduced a revamped version of its raisin bran cereal with toasted oats added for more fiber in the uk. The company's all brand probiotic odi clusters are marketed as an aide to gut health just before the pandemic the outlook for cereal sales with soft but being cooped up in the house spurred demand for packaged comfort food. Suddenly people were looking for convenience and feel good brands breakfast. Cereal checks. both boxes in the pandemic's early days breakfast cereal sales surge. Nearly thirty percent over the year before but these ebbs and flows of affection have little to do with the loyalist to want their morning mouth workout in a bowl. Fear not says post. There are no plans to stop manufacturing grape nuts and it should be back on store shelves by spring. So you won't have to wait too much longer until it's crunch time from wondering this is business wards daily. I'm your host. David brown written by gwen and produced by jessica. Your moscow edited by emma courtland. Our executive producers are jenny lower beckmann and marshall created by earn on lopez or wondering. Microsoft teams is helping priority bicycles reinvent. The way they work when the pandemic hit the bike shop had to close their new york city showroom. They've found a way to reopen by doing virtual visits on teams. Now the team can meet with two or three times the of customers than they could before and people from all over the world can visit their showroom learn more about their story and others at microsoft dot com slash teams.
Dr. Says: Eat cheese?
"Welcome to the doctor Gandhari. Podcast the weekly podcast. Where Dr g gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life. Welcome to the doctor country podcast. You know. There's nothing more than hearing from my listeners and readers and boy have I had a lot of questions about my yes and no list of foods particularly as I put out a new book and that lists changes so I get it. You know one egg replacer that I might have recommended two years ago. I might not recommend now because believe it or not formulas change without consulting me so what I said was a really great egg replacer a year ago that formula changed and I no longer recommend that. A replacer you know. I do try my best to keep the list updated. I assure you I am always looking for new food to add and I'm always looking for when somebody changes something and if we don't get to the question I will try to remind myself to talk about the changes that have been made in corn products. That's not corn. It's Hugh Hugh O. R. M. Because I have a lot of patients that asked me about that so the fundamentals of the Yes. No list actually hopefully never change now having said that you really smart readers. Careful readers may know that in the Doctor Gunnery Cookbook the original one. I cited a paper. That said Pecans might have electon that. In some people attack the pancreas and that same paper suggested that there is elected in Seaweed. That may be problematic. And it's well hidden in that book but every now and then alert reader will pick that up. So why haven't I taken Pecans and Seaweed off the list? Well stay tuned because in my upcoming book the Energy Paradox which will be out this coming fall. I have found through multiple food allergy testing in my patients. That pecans often often often. I would say seventy five percent of the time. Come up as a food that people are allergic to so stay tuned. They may be coming off the list. Also we have found that there is a lectern in spinach that can be problematic for certain individuals. Not Everybody and as I get more data from my patients remember. This is not conjecture on my part. This is data driven from patient. Blood work as more data comes in. We may issue a cautionary note on spinach. But for now. Don't don't throw the spinach away okay. So there's always going to be great food steep and they're probably always foods that you should avoid okay so there's always exceptions to the rule and we're gonNA talk about some of the exceptions okay. Francey S. I. Heavy tree nut allergy so the acceptable flowers on the list or out of my range of acceptability I am also vegetarian. So meats and chicken on the list are cannot be dairy is one of my protein. Staples any suggestions. Well there's certainly a lot of flowers on the list that are not nut. Base for instance tiger nuts are not or not at all. They are a tuber. Cassava is a tuber millet grain without a hall as sorghum and we're increasingly seeing sorghum and millet flours available on a routine basis and if worse comes to worse you can find them on Amazon. Or on thrive so. There's multiple other flowers other than almond and coconut flour. Most people don't react to almond coconut flour. But I'll add the proviso make sure it's blanched almond flour not whole almond flour for instance trader. Joe's does sell a whole ground up almond flour. And you can actually see the flex of Brown. A number of my patients with autoimmune disease. Do React to the Latin and the peel of almonds. That's why you actually don't see almonds on the approved Nutley's Marcona almonds which are peeled almonds are perfectly acceptable but in my way of thinking there's actually far better announced eat than almonds in terms of feeding gut bacteria and I've written about that in the long jetty paradox. That there's better choices okay. Dairy is one of my protein staples well dairy protein if you find casing a to milk products and they increasingly available That's a perfectly acceptable protein source You can get it from goats milk you can get it from goats cheeses you can get it from sheep cheeses. You can get cheap yogurt. Which is absolutely fantastic. Sheep and goat cheeses from Europe. No matter where they come from her safe and most cows in France Italy and Switzerland are a to producers as is Buffalo Mozzarella so make sure it says Bufalino Mozzarella either from Italy. There's also a company that we've talked about before from Ecuador called BU F. And you can find in a whole foods you can find it in actually multiple stores now and a true water. Buffalo milk is perfectly safe now. Having said that there are a number of people in my practice who when we do. Further testing do react to all the casings in milk and even way protein in milk. So if you notice that even if you're eating casing to melt products and you still have an issue whether it's irritable bowel whether it's mucus production than your one of those people where Melk is one of your off. Food's always remember. There's there's no human need for melt were we're the only animal that uses some other animals melt product. Well cats like it but that's We give it cats. They don't go milk a cow so milk is not essential for your good health. Also remember that while there may be cheeses aged cheeses that have really cool compound called Pollyanna means which appear to promote longevity milk. In general liquid. Milk has lots of insulin. Like growth factor to make baby cows or maybe goats or baby. Sheep grow quickly so I'd much rather you use the finished product of Melk like an age cheese or even a yogurt rather than the milk liquid itself. Okay hope that helps Robin Ass. Can you drink almond milk? Well you you can drink almond milk. I find it a little watery bland. I think there's actually a lot better products out there on the market now. I'm particularly fond of a combination of macadamia and coconut milk. S- that are available. There's some really I think sick delicious. Coconut Milk S- that are available. There are some combinations of almond and coconut. Melt that give you the thickness you want. And if you WANNA have some fun. Look for several of the products that are non dairy half-and-half which are often a mixture of Macadamia a or coconut or almond melts. And you're going to get more of a thicker texture for those but you can drink almond milk. Christiane asked what about honey? Is that on the S or no list. So you'll notice in the plant paradox. Family Cookbook. I do recommend a few recipes using a little bit of local. Honey you gotta remember. That honey is sugar. There's no other way of looking at it. And in general we have far too much sugar in our diet period. That being said if you use local honey. There is some interesting evidence that they contain Health benefiting properties including actually some interesting probiotics and even prebiotics. So it's not it's neither on the no or yes list because when I originally made the list if I put everything that everybody asked a question about It would take the entire book just to do the. Yes and no list so rather than put at one place or another. It wasn't a big thing that my patients were demanding. And so I just left it off the list. One way or another but yeah honey does appear. You'll notice in several of my recipes but do try to get local honey and you know again. Support your local. Beekeeper support your local farmers market. And that's where you're gonNA find local honey and please don't make the mistake that local hunt. So for instance. I live in Palm Springs. My local honey is not from Orange County. It's from Palm Springs Same Way if I'm in Santa Barbara and my other home I buy site Santa Barbara Honey. Do I use it quite frankly? I almost never use on except to make one of these recipes. Rosa's am I correct in understanding. That much of the no list is perfectly fine if pressure cooked. She's specifically looking at squash keen while rice lentils the answer in a general rule is yes There are there is evidence that pressure cooking destroys most leptons. The exception to the rule listed on the list is gluten which is present in wheat. Rye and barley cannot be destroyed by pressure cooking. It is a really nasty protein. That can't be broken apart by pressure cooking having said that there is a protein in oats that mimics gluten and so. I've had a number of my canaries Test even pressure cooking oats for an hour and they still react to oats. So you'll notice that that's on the off. I have a number of people who still want to maintain their traditional diet. Their family diet and that includes lentils and for instance keen one and they do extremely well by pressure cooking their keenum. In fact interesting just this past week I have a family who have keen one. And they pressure cooked they're keen one or thriving on that and they invited their in laws over to have pressure cocaine Wa and the in laws said. There's no way we're coming over. That's not how you Cook Kina and you know you're gonNA make some regular stuff for us and they actually didn't and they fed their family. The pressure cooking. What man he said. You're not going to believe this. My in-laws actually said why didn't you tell us about this before? This is so much better than the way. We've been preparing it so true story from just this past week as you know in the plant paradox. I write about a woman who emigrated to La from Peru and wanted to continue her traditional diet which included keen one She developed some impressive bowel issues. Autoimmune disease and humorously her mother two weeks before her appointment with me flew from Peru and basically said you stupid girl. Didn't I tell you you have to pressure pressure cookie nwe and she took her to bed bath beyond and bought her a pressure cooker and when? I met her She said you know my mother would be you to me. And ever since she's been pressure cooking or keen while she is resolved issues so these are real things white boss mighty rice. I personally feel is the safest of the rices. Please pressure cook it. And as you've read even with with any of the starches you're best off to pressure. Cook them. Put a little coconut oil in the pressure cooker with these starches but then cool the starch. Put it in the refrigerator. And then reheat it the next day cooling. We'll take any of the starches and increase their resistant. Starch content what resistant starch means for those of you who are just kind of getting into this. It is resistant to normal digestion. So it takes longer to digest number one and number two some of it. Actually resists are normal digestion and then is eaten by bacteria in our gut so it becomes a prebiotics. Now we can get really nerdy on resistant starches but really nerdy potatoes. Good old white potatoes can be made a resistant starch but the starch in potato is actually in our to starch and it is actually eaten by bad bacteria rather than good bacteria so it's another reason to avoid potatoes even if you're going to pressure cook them now. I do have some of my patients that have to have their white potatoes and MASH POTATOES. And yes we have them. Peel the potatoes and pressure. Cook them. But if you're looking for a starch that's good for you. That's way down the list. Okay so let's take a quick break. Hey everybody it's doctor here and I've got some very exciting news right now. You can sign up for Dr Countries newsletter as a subscriber you'll get updates about new episodes of the doctor country podcast where we talk about all things. Health Trust me. You won't want to miss out. Also keep you in the loop of all the things. I'm up to from news to events special appearances visit. Www DOT DR dot com to sign up. Okay Sherry S. How do you ensure adequate potassium intake on the Diet? The Nana's are a staple for me to ensure appropriate potassium levels. I know sweet. Potatoes are a good source but so one has to remember that the United Fruit Company who originated bringing bananas to the United States had to make people adopt to a new foods. Sort of one the fascinating things about about bananas that I hope everyone knows that bananas were the original fruit that could be picked green and then shipped across the country and then ripened with either exposure to air or ripen rapidly with exposure to the gas. Ethylene oxide so that was the motivation for making bananas. A desired food source. So how'd you make people eat bananas when they don't know anything about it in the early nineteen hundreds? The United Fruit company paid doctors to tell people that bananas were a great source of potassium. That people need in their diet. It turns out the potassium. 's that potassium is not particularly high in bananas? In fact there are far better foods including leafy Greens that have far more potassium per outs Dan Bananas but it was this marketing plan over one hundred years ago. That actually made people doctors to this day. Tell People Eat Bananas for potassium? Incidentally the United Fruit company formed with the new founded kelloggs cornflakes company in nineteen o six to have a coupon for a bunch of Jakisa bananas in every box of Kelloggs. Cornflakes and doctors were paid to tell people that the healthy way to start. Your Day was with a bowl of kelloggs cornflakes with a slice banana. So that's why you know now I. My mom gave me a healthy sliced banana on my kelloggs cornflakes every day. While I was growing up and while I was getting allergy shots little did I know little. Did she know that's because of the power of marketing and is anyone who learns if you say an untruth often enough and loud enough it will become the truth? How's that okay also? Calcium is a concern so most of the world two thirds of the world cannot drink milk because of lactose intolerance they did not inherit the mutated gene that allows most European ancestry to tolerate lactose. Many of us don't have the particular lactobacillus by can digest. Lactose easily to the world does not use calcium does not take calcium as a supplement the FDA has warned that in general we should not take calcium in a supplement form that we should get calcium which is an essential mineral from food and so it's incredibly available in all of our green leafy vegetables. It's actually President Avocados to a very good amount. It's present in millet and sorghum. It is president and beans and people have to understand I have nothing against beans and lentils as long as you pressure cook them they are a great source of a prebiotic fiber. But just take the time to detoxify the electives by pressure cooking. And it's so easy to do. If you don't WanNa do that you can go to your friendly store and pick up Eden brand beans. I have no relationship with them. E. D. E. N. and they are the only being that I have found that his pressure cooked in the Cam. It's pre soaked and the beep a lie. There is no BP lining in eating beans and believe it or not. I have a shelf full of eating beans in both of my pantries and I eat them. So whoever puts out on the Internet you know I am totally against beans. That's not true I eat them. Maybe I'll post a video meeting beans. That'll be good okay. I'll look for that bottom line. How does one ensure the right vitamin and mineral balance? So if you eat a wide range of different different starches different routes you will maintain an adequate balance one of the things that has been noted over and over and over again. Is that our soil? Even our organic soil is terribly depleted of magnesium and selenium. How do you get when you're one of the easiest ways is to buy a bag of Brazil nuts and he three Brazil nuts day? That will get you your daily requirement of Selenium and. Actually they're pretty good for you. Magnesium on the other hand is really difficult to get by eating food and I have every one of my patients on a magnesium supplement. I particularly like potassium magnesium aspartame eight. There are several companies that manufacture it. Look for the most you can get per tablet or capsule the labeling is very inconsistent if you have any issues with cramps in your legs cramps particularly at night. Or if you're doing a Kita genyk diet you absolutely. Positively must supplement with potassium magnesium aspartame. And it's actually one of the better tolerated. Combinations of magnesium at high dose magnesium will act as a diarrhea or Saas tool inducing agent. Milk of Magnesia is concentrated magnesium so those are the chew two really fundamental minerals that may be lacking in our diet because of our soil. Depletion SHELLY ASS. I love Avocados but in the last five years or so. I have extreme gut pain when I eat them in have eliminated them for my diet. This diet seems to rely heavily on Avocados so I am wondering I am having a problem with them. And what other options do I have? So I have several patients who clearly react to Avocados and some of them actually seemed to develop an intolerance for them the longer they eat them. So I think Avocados or one of the greatest fruits there is and yes on. Avocado is a fruit. It's a single seeded berry but on the other hand. If you see that there is a food that you react to. It's you know like the old doctor job doctor. You know whenever I do this. I get a headache and the answer is well. Don't do that and so if you notice you react. Avocados don't do it. I can tell you. I have a number particularly women who get irritable bladder from eating spinach. And they notice it universally and I can tell you. I have purposely overloaded myself on spinach anti induced irritable bladder myself. So I believe you when you told me that and there are compounds and spinach that are capable of doing that and they actually brings me to an interesting point A patient asked me a couple of weeks ago. The more you kind of stick with this program when you go off even with a little cheat do you notice. You're now realizing that that product that food actually bothers you and I think that's actually a great observation because I noticed that myself and I noticed that in lots of patients normally we are so bombarded with compounds that universally make us feel bad have brain fog. Have bad sleep have pains? We are so used to that that when we take all those products away and we finally wake up when we add that product back our sensitivity is now heighten to the actual effect that product was having on us. And I'll give you an example. It's it's actually in my new book but I'll give you a preface As a transplant surgeon both doing kidney transplants and heart transplants. We would have people who were functioning Quite well with basically horrible kidneys or a horribly pumping heart and they could do a number of things when we would put a kidney in them or a new heart in them within a day they would go. Oh my gosh I forgot what normal felt like. This is what normal feels like. And it's so interesting. I've been so impressed that we have been so surrounded by food that's toxic. That's making us feel bad. Having low energy having fatigue having brain fog that we're so used to that we think that's normal and what's really delights me. Do I mean when it happened to me is when that lists you go? Oh my gosh. I forgot what normal feels like? And so when you add something. Back that is one of the culprits. It's wonderful because now your body says hey you idiot. What did you do that for? You can feel it immediately. So it's it's a real thing Scott from instagram. As can I drink ciders as a beer? Alternative? That is a great question. Scott because I have a gentleman who's in his seventies who has some of the most impressive leaky gut that I've come across. He does not absorb protein. Well he is skinny as a rail and his wife is a faithful follower of mine. And he's actually a faithful fowler of mine except he used to drink a six pack of beer every day. We weened him down to one to two beers per day and he still has leaky gut. So I said I'll tell you what. Let's do a really specific leaky gut test on you. And let's find out your culprit Knowing full well what I think we thought we'd find and Lo and behold all of his leaky gut test game back and son of a gun. I've been telling them this for ten years. He reacts to Wieght and surprise elite in severely to gluten and gluten is in his beer no matter what beer drinking beer has gluten and his wife you know hits them over the head with your pocketbook and say I told you you gotta give up the beer so why. I'm going to do next week when I get back to springs office is I'm GonNa have my staff call and say I'm GonNa make a swap for you. Let's get rid of beer and let's put insider and we're gonNA see what happens. Great Question Yuli from INSTAGRAM ASS is teff flour allowed tough is actually very interesting ancient grain from Africa. It's really tiny. It GROWS IN INCREDIBLY ERA. Did awful places and it's a staple of the people. I go dig wells for in Ethiopia and teff is actually a safe grain. It's another one of those Hollis grain. Tried a by tough. You actually support indigenous farmers so Hannah from instagram asked for high fat dairy products. How important is it to stick with organic dairy products? Es Get organic dairy products but warning if it says grass fed but doesn't tell you the cow breed most of our cows United States Holstein or their jersey. Cows jerseys are half a one and half a to so they do have a one casing in them. The picture elsie the cow was a Jersey cow for those of you who remember board and fame. You're better off getting excuse me cheeses from raw cheeses from France Italy and Switzerland which have all been grass fed. And so they're all organic. You're just much safer so the follow up with that. What about cream cheese well cream cheese does not have any casing in it? I mean there's a microscopic amount but it's on really basically unmeasurable so your safe with organic cream cheese as one of the SAFE. Cow's milk product if you're gonNA use cream cheese so kristen asks what about blue cheese? So there's lots of great blue cheeses out there but I would prefer if you got your blue cheese from particularly France Italy or the mountainous areas of Germany and Switzerland which are all a two cows blue cheese from England and having lived in England. I loved Stilton Cheese. It's the wrong breed of cow. It's a whole steam. So you're much better off getting your blue cheeses like penny and I do from from France. That's the blue cheeses. We use oriented so a Goldstein from instagram. As please recommend a Parillo oil to cook with well there's actually a number of parole oils that are available if you go to an Asian market Pearl oil is the most popular oil for cooking in Korea and parts of China. You can go on Amazon and get it. I get mine from a company called Dr Wonderful Which is easy to find on Amazon? I have no relation He may be wonderful for all. I know But I've been using that for a number of years. My personal feeling is that long term in phase. Two or beyond olive. Oil is your best buddy because it has far more polyphenols than parole oil. The benefit of parole oil is. It has a lot of what's called. Rose MORONIC ACID. Which is one of the secrets to the longevity and good brain health of the Achy role? Is that cute community that is south of Naples which has the oldest the biggest percentage of over one hundred year old people of any community so rose moronic acid which by the way is in one of several of my products is one of the real secrets to longevity so three. Oh three Charlie from instagram wants to know about micro-toxins in coffee and chocolate and other things and he wants to know. Are they really as bad as certain people say they are? That's a great question. I actually take care of a number of people who come to me. With a mold. Exposure or mycotoxin exposure including one of the world's experts on him. And I'll give you my take on all of this. I don't test for these things the fact that you may test positive for G to various mold or other. Fungi does not mean that. Those molds and fungi are in you or that you were ever infected with them. It means that you were exposed to them. And you appropriately made a antibody to these having said that your immune system most of our immune systems because of leaky gut and quite frankly I think about one hundred percents walking around In America have leaky gut and your immune system is so hyper on Stone. Alert that any foreign protein will activate them to attack not only them but you normally when your gut is sealed and you have normal component of microbiome with lots and lots and thousands and millions of different species. Those species literally educate your immune system. That we've got your back. Whatever you're going to swallow will take care of and even if we don't they're not going to bother you and you guys can just rest and stand down. I'm a perfect example of that. I got allergy shots for most of my teenage and young adult life. I don't have any allergies anymore. I was allergic every mold. There was I could live in a moldy house. I will not have any reaction to mold exposure because my immune system is different by the way the Italian government has issued statements that there are no micro-toxins in Espresso so there are not Because the process even if there were the cooking process the high temperature kills and deactivates any mycotoxin. Same Way with chocolate. So if you react to these molds or fungi it's because your immune system is hyper reactive and that's actually telling you. These guys are not the problem. The problem is you got leaky gut. And you got a horrible imbalance microbiome. We fix that. That problem goes away as it did with one of the world's experts in micro-toxins when we changed her leaky gut. So that's it for this week from the Doctor Gunnery podcast. Please send your questions on in. It's really fun to get a chance to answer your questions and send more and we'll be happy to put me on the firing line because I'm Dr Gunnery and I'm always looking out for you. Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Doctor Country. Podcast before you go. I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on itunes. Google play stitcher or wherever you get your podcast and if you WANNA watch each episode of the Doctor Country Podcast. You can always find me on youtube at Youtube Dot com slash Dr under. Because I'm Dr Country and I'm always looking out for you.
Ep. 14 | Cereal
"Waltham to applesauce and horse feathers Krista am am sage and where magically delicious and everything with trace magically delicious didn't all. I would agree. Gosh from serial killers is to cereal. Right makes perfect sense. Yeah a little bit differently but one delicious one not so much. Sorry Hello Dahmer. So we're onto cereal like the eating cereal. C. E. R. E. L.. For those of you in the back. spelling helps the people in the back of your sitting upright. You can clearly spell office slayer I mean. Hello so cereal. Did you have fun with this. One like you do with cheese No Oh because I was like All over the place. I couldn't focus for more than three seconds because I'm like Oh this and then I would stop and then I'm like Oh this and so there is nothing and then. My computer crashed that so many times. Like my interwebs went down and finally I gave up and we talked yesterday. I said stay away from cal. I didn't even look up. The word Kurla does as soon as we talked about serial on episode thirteen during true crime. As soon as we did I was like I know exactly what I want to talk about. Okay now. Here's the deal though. I am so interested. So you'RE GONNA have to get to it fast. 'cause I really WANNA know wouldn't you look nothing the Oh great let's see National Cereal Day as March seventh. So we missed that I did but it's coming up again it is. That's the brilliant thing about years for all of you who missed now hard eleven-year-old yeah. Don't worry you'll get it again next to bring Syria the year. Oh I did. What did you But I don't have allies hero because I usually don't eat breakfast which I was telling you this morning because I started to do intermit- intermittent fasting a really Let's talk about that. Which is very interesting? I don't know it's I don't know if it's helping or not. But so the the reason I'm doing it is because There is a lot of dementia and Alzheimer's and my family and I've been reading about health benefits and have been quite not I'm paranoid is not the right word. I'm not paranoid about anything that I'm I want to really figure out what I can do to help as much as I can and do not get dementia or Alzheimer's and I don't know if I can't help but Intermittent fasting as played a role diet has played a role And of course they're still figuring out of tennis stuff so I'm trying to been finding out a lot more stuff. Yes soon. I've been doing Intermittent fasting and then the I read a book called the Longevity Diet which is really cool and They talk about physically the five. It's not just exercise. It's not just nutrition. And it's as he calls the eating five pillars of whatever and he did who is Serge Idaho. I have out a white beard. I don't remem- soon white hair. Something in Class I was I was watching a little video from Maria Shriver driver. She does she been lately. I don't know her husband was caught cheating on her not Maria Shriver. Oh who's Arnold's wife. Maria Schreiber okay. Oh he did. YEP member came out. He had a son who was like twenty or something like that. Looks just like him with I I WANNA say his hurts North Moist soon. It's not. It's not a syllabus time. It is a tumor not the son. Okay this God. So she's got some really interesting. She has people on and does all sorts of like Interviews people about all sorts. Just up in there. Yeah and Alzheimer's and wellness and everything and anyway so I found out about this. Oh that sounds fascinating and so then I ordered the book. Tuck and then I got it for mom and when she was here in the summer and I will let you borrow it but it's fascinating anyway so I that that is a big thing in the in the back he talks about the the way he does toughen For different and how it helps with different like cancers and all sorts of different stuff. Yeah and Alzheimer's anyway. He doesn't take any of the proceeds of his book. He puts it all back into research at all. I can't remember where is that. I don't think it's research research. I think it's too. I can't remember anyway to start in Iran passing which is the long way of saying that. I don't eat breakfast usually but then I was doing that. Yeah Yeah and not in. It's not a calorie deprivation right at all. But it's just It's fascinating I've been listening to some blogs and breakfast is the most important really fifty right. So then I'm trig so then trying to like navigate between that and what's the it's maddening you really get into anything. It can be maddening because there's research to for days you say in the intimate or in the book the longevity they also talk about inner minute intermittent fasting as well which is interesting. Yeah Anyway Yeah. They're not about starving yourself off. No it's not letting your body Process and get back to where it is and you don't need to? We eat all day long right now which we don't need to. Yeah well unless you have like I I know some people do like six small meals a day so my I get my blood sugar levels. Go down and When I started doing intermittent passing so I would get totally shaky and if I didn't eat like that little meals and after I started doing intermittent fasting that went away really? Yeah Yep because you maintain enemy there's a whole will put some stuff about and again. I'm sure you can find different people using different things but there's been a bunch of studies on it and yeah saw put some stuff up there crap. Yeah very interesting so there you go so I did bring some cereal it. It is GRANOLA love GRANOLA. And then I looked in it had. That was one of the things like when I was looking at. This didn't look too much into it. But this sugar content is asinine sugar content and so many cereals is crazy is cray cray right. This has sixteen grams of sugar. Wow and a half cup while I've made my own GRANOLA. I can put that recipe up. It's so good I have yes. Recipes are yeah. They started out with stick. Men ended worth. Aw Oh I love Granola so good but sure as a kid. If it wasn't sweet enough my brother and I would add sugar sugar. We and we weren't really allowed to get the sickly sweet stuff here actually. I tried to remember all this details. Serials we say cheerios. Yup were a big one. Honey nut cheerios. To Raisin Bran do scopes does but I actually at one is hugely hugely sugar. Yeah he did Oh Darn it What's IT'S A? I can see the box right now. It's a warm Ciro cream of wheat. Oh love me some we some raisin had so I gave him as like but that you never. I don't think I've ever actually eaten. It just sounds gross like motion. Like I didn't like oatmeal growing up either. But I like it now. Tom Me Too like homemade. Any we talked about that. Oh mark and Christine when we did our when we went to the lodge member number. They made overnight oatmeal was so gosh I think that was. Christine knows so duck. I don't remember it. Yeah remember something overnight opium. Yeah it was really good I was I was. It's rough rough couple of days. It was a rough time of the month just an in particular that month. For whatever reason season chest yeah so it. Didn't Brad tell you what to eat or what not to eat or what was that. That was me me what vegetables. I just like them and that I just went off on vegetables. Edged ables even know poor Brown on my God to this day. I mean this was what three or four years ago to this day. I still AH CHECK TO STOP AT. You gotta get over that well because he knows what but instead of press okay. I'm GonNa have to talk to him about that if may but also everybody eat your vegetables vegetables. Do I can eat him. Oh aw I was bitchy. That's basically I was such a bitch. Not Regan we all have our moments. Don't you worry do and it was a super bowl weekend. which was actually good? China had disappeared to or as I call it my room and stupid bowl weekend. I mean we miss the puppy bowl but I could go to my my room and read for a bit and Yeah Yeah Yeah so that was nice like sort of an excuse not to socialize. We played poker those actually beautiful. That was fun. Those those are fun. I think it would have been. We have great hike. Yeah in the and it was some all my bass and marked at that time. They're big they're big and Marbella. Adam Bo you marked it. That Oh Yeah God. That was a ladder kind of like a scavenger hunt. But you had to solve on a crazy susie. That was amazed ball to solve all these crazy stuff and yeah it was amazing anyway. Why Anyway Kerryon Kerryon Kerryon? Let's see golden grams. We had occasionally Oh withers the little bear shaped Syria. Now they're like little Squares they were like Graham crackers. Almost okay what are the bears Teddy Graham. TIAA chocolate wants to have those are like cookie crackers. I don't they they. What are they true? I noticed it was like she can say it makes me happy. Did they also have cereal. Cereal every look at Ireland's they had less than an hour. Let's see lucky charms. I remember having sometimes rice krispies. Oh Slim born Chris Corner classic cornflakes we would add a bit of sugar tomb. life obviously frosted flakes fruit loops occasionally occasionally only occasionally yeah and My favorite Korac Leno brand. That's when I was talking about Chris. Golden Grahams Rams this is a golden crispy has Barrett said Beer Syria. So that's not and you must have been right. Maybe they are cookies and I just wanted them Jimmy yet. Well I mean I mean yeah and then ten grams teddy. Graham Breakfast Cereal breakfast bears there. You go yum yum yup babies Choco Teddy so I found this website An hour and I didn't get the COMPLEX DOT com. It's a pop culture everything in this. This guy did the fifty greatest breakfast cereals long mine and so I looked and and winter and of course they all bring back memories and crackle and Oprah was actually pretty high on list really. I put down what he wrote and will will put that gentleman's name up on the blog but about crackling O'Brien. He says both the name and the recipe indicate but this cereal is a source of dietary fiber in a way that many other joints aren't for many consumers. This gives way to the notion that crackling oat the brand is only for grey hairs needing to stay regular no. These square nausea rows are filled cinnamon and nutmeg is like Christmas and a bolt with the extra surprise being the promise of a really satisfying shit gifts about stay regular but it is I love. That's I've I've never had that it's so again right now number. I will tell you so I I started having it in middle school and I don't I know who got it and how because I don't think they would have bought it. You know for us for the kids so I don't remember my first bowl and why but I loved it and then I noticed list at some point the tastes changed and it wasn't as good. It's still delicious. But it wasn't as good as it used to be. Well let me tell you Y yes. Please let me see so this crack note. Brennan's part of Kellogg's so that was part my say spill at girl. All right tailpipe changed him and I need to know about so it was introduced in nineteen seventy seven. By Kellogg's I did not settled. It is made of Oat Bran flavored with cinnamon and Nutmeg and is held together by brown sugar in the shape of a rectangle It's a source of dietary fibers. Its first you ingredients are whole loads and sugar Is that Terry Fiber. But it contains a significant amount of saturated fat. The palm oil used in the cereal is modified slightly to suggests more of a sugary flavor than normal palm oil the recipe for crackling Oat Bran underwent a major change in nineteen eighty nine when consumer health advocates pushed for Kellogg's logs to remove coconut oil which is ninety two percent saturated fat. Yup Wow yeah said that and I I remember that and I could never I never even thought to look it up but back then obviously there is nothing. You didn't see it in the news. Then right did it happen. uh-huh oh that's interesting did have a maid ended affected it. I just remember this has nothing to do with the cereals excel themselves except for. When was it that there was a big like the price changed on everything and then people were getting outraged because the price the either the price of cereal and bread went went way up or it stayed the same but the boxes got smaller. I don't remember was I just remember like a huge thing. Of O'Brien is one of the IT. They don't have big boxes. It's one one of the smaller ones for like five bucks. Wow I know that says not when it says special occasion cereal yeah. I don't get Cyril all that often. But Yeah Yeah. I don't either because I doubt lots for. I started doing A friend Jimmy this recipe four Adrian For one older. Hi Adrienne Almond milk and she seeds and a little vanilla and you leave it in the fridge over night so the Chia seeds you gotta like Kasese so the Chia seeds like absorb it all and then Roy shall good in the morning. You can put a little like Muslim banana or some the grass berries exit in and it's Duck Adrian by the wake gave us our very first review. You did shout out. I happen to be posting tomorrow. Really made a little ya'll remember. I said I I wanNA share our reviews. I just kept forgetting obsolete surly. Yes I made one for. And he's the first one and if you're listening right now you We would love a review fantastic on I two S- we have how fourteen reviews. I me yeah better kick in the pants not too shabby you. People are listening. They like it. They like US Emden. I'll me about Kella. We well Muesli. I love Muesli. Oh I think I like that one too it's it's European it's oats. Oh I am a raise that route and yeah just little and I'll just add milk to meet at like zero or you can put it in your yogurt. Oh whatever and you could add more fruit But that one is also good for fiber. And it's funny as you get older. Your sooner tastes change but firm in your sugar not your sugar. And we weren't even allowed to have the sugar sugar you on right. But I'm surprised they let us put sugar at. I don't know and then there beats leftover sugar with the milk and oh in the drink no no I was never into that. Probably consider still sure. Yeah Yeah and that we we get. I get more boring. Like oh Muesli. It's not an exciting cereal but it's so delicious and so good for you. Yeah we're the same. We didn't get Blair. Wear the marshmallow. Do big sugary things. But at Christmas my mom would each let us pick out our own box of four really disgusting delicious cereal would get. That's word bird and I would eat the marsh I would separate them out and eat the marshmallow separate from the serial. My roommate in college wrote wrote. Why didn't they send the entire just wrote? This is before you know so. She wrote the company and talked. About how much like the on how much you love the marshmallows. And then all of a sudden she gets huge package in the mail is just this giant bag of Martin Bats so off is really shot up to look. I think they've added a new charm. I don't remember what it is that that there's horseshoes rainbows rainbows horse shoes. Shooting Star clovers clever shooting stars. I think so. I don't know we. We better not forgotten I wonder if there are any pictures of all of those. Oh I'm sure there are. I mean of the uh-huh of the big bag. That would be awesome. So what else did you like No you have to talk. Oh my gosh okay. One thing I found out I probably won't talk about it today. We'll just put it on the blog. Is that a New York Times article on seared. The history of cereal it gives each decade. And what happened. So that's a neat little. We'll give me the first one who okay. We have mid to late. Nineteenth Century in eighteen sixty three James Caleb Jackson a religiously conservative vegetarian. Who ran this is a theme by the Wick who ran a medical sanitarium in western? New York created a breakfast zero from gram flour dough that was dried and broken into shape so hard. They needed to be soaked in milk overnight. Oh my God called it. Granola John Harvey Kellogg a a surgeon who ran a health. Spa in Michigan later made a version and named it granola using the same idea former Kellogg patient C. W. Post created grape nuts would be popular product to offer a discount coupon hosts cereal and Kellogg and count from from way back when when I actually liked grape nuts too. Yeah great born. I didn't like him as a kid I did. Did you did but I do now. Yep Yeah they're great but again in yogurt and stuff through yeah or by themselves but add fruit and eat your vegetables or crystal hunt you seriously seriously. I will bet you out eight your arm I just I just find it. I've met so many who men who refused to eat their vegetables and and I don't understand. Yeah but I finally trust me battle for years now and that and I finally just had to let it go because it you know. It's not my life. Yeah to deal with your end right. I mean just a lot of classes. I'm not saying it's just in my experience. This is just purely your experience. Yes yes. These aren't facts while they're facts to me. Not that the people I know who grew up and still don't eat their vegetables or the throw up. I don't think Brad is not one. No but some of the other ones and really liked saw but he won't look them like I have to remind yeah. Did you make us out to. I think alike Mitrovica Salad Jamaica Salad did you make a sad Bradley's to they'll supplement with vitamins and minerals which show that ninety nine percent of that all goes out in your piece basically you're just paying for colored P but enjoy our colored people. Yeah but you do get some of it and if that that your nutrition somehow it's best to get him from the source yet because otherwise you're spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Yeah could address that healer already. Fresh fruit and veggies are already expensive which is ridiculous cheaper than the vitamin. Yeah except they go bad so quickly you but because you have to eat them. I know you can't just the nutrients from MM keeping them in the frigerator. y'All get it there osmosis. They don't just like I am slowdown. Ari Oh I am so sorry. Everything goes to everything everything I've known in life. What even is life? I know that pro-syrian picking us. That's the one. Mikey lakes. Let Okay so Mike Garissa. Some food and wine had this fun little article about the most popular serial and every state according to Google renew sleep which is based on the surface. Yeah and this googling googling cereal us all the California Colorado Connecticut Washington DC Kansas Minnesota Missouri Nebraska Oregon Utah and Washington. You all picked life those. Those were the ones that with as Moss only funny I duNNo. I'll I'll pay down on April just not as again. Yeah I like that one I am and do you know where the word serial came from. Know from series The Roman Goddess of harvest in agriculture interesting could make a paid lead here. How do you spell that C. R. E. S. the Roman goddess own Herbs Immune Culture? All right well thank you series. We enjoy series your bountiful. We'll crops actually. Cereal is a crop. It's not an actual is breakfast food. But it we make it into that right an and adds sugar. Yeah and marshmallow marshmallows and I recently saw what Syria was. But then I'm like this is boring so I didn't down like Ri- It could be cereal. Crops Rice is oh so I think there were five Quique Week quick tweet. I like puffed rice. Are you seeing that snack in middle school to spy ourself very strange kid ever. All kids are very strict her lovingly every yet they all have their own strangeness. So if you think you're strange you're right and that's good and that's a good thing. Yeah right so where do I even begin. Oh my God I'm so excited with the Kellogg still at you're killing me okay. Well here are. Should I just run down the headings real quick. Yeah so I have Kellogg brothers and company will. He's one of the brothers workweek because that's interesting. No am I allowed foundation. Send Terry Him and Dr Kellogg Look how long that is Madam. tractions masturbation ooh Yum which we are to got to. That was cracking open. You should see sages face. And Masturbation mission. How does it Margaret get into this week? I D I have to use the restroom. I let's mastery now to pay what you do when I am using the restroom. KRISTA is your own. We'll mark this. One is explicit. All better yeah. Hey also look what I found in the pantry. Lots of rich. I forgot that Ben Likes to get this occasionally. Let's see here's my sugary gummy I like the one inset. Aren't sugar either that's most. Yeah let's see this one without milk sugar. Total sugars five grams well. This is interesting addressing. If you add three Quarter Cup skim milk. It goes up to fourteen grams. So skinny sugars milk Interesting interesting well. Anyway near you may pay Oh yes made ordinary fortified with folic acid B. Vitamins and iron. I did look about a little bit. Amy Continue on this. And then I'll tell you about Fordham eat the fortifying fortifying. Yes Lee fortify okay. No no but go PA- KANTER Antonio Antony anytime aware of free and you know to tell me about fortifying all okay. Kellogg brothers and company Johny now class. Oh wait no okay. So that's going back to the cheese episode if you remember gave so case though okay so a lot of this information I got from wikipedia and some various articles. And I'll mention those when we get to them. I guess so. Okay so I said okay so again you. Jeez the Kellogg brothers were Dr John Harvey Kellogg and will case Kellogg and fun. Fact my father's middle name is Keith And my brothers. Oh that's it was the thing my like to give your child your Middle Name because my dad is Edward and my brothers Edward Oh and then his son is Edward the the middle names my. Yeah I have Elisa's my middle name and my mom's And if I had had children and had a girl she would have been any lease as well. Aw Doc that sweet anyway so they found it. A health food company the Battle Creek Sanitarium Health Food Company in eighteen ninety eight but before then I tried to get this on in order the sanitarium sanitarium health food a health food company yet because they also did sanitarium like thirty years before or something but but this is just like briefly on the company briefly I say and then may skip a whole bunch just because okay so they produced foodstuffs for current and former patients. They merged with the cintas nut. Food Company also founded by Doctor Kellogg to become the Kellogg Food Company in July Nineteen O eight and they also sold old nut butters and meat substitutes in fact Meat Substitutes Yam Dr Kellogg was a big proponent of vegetarianism UNISOM even though it didn't have a name then and nuts and he might be the first person who created a version of peanut butter. But we're not sure that's interesting one of the first people at least yeah let see to to to to to. We'll get into that later. Kellogg Company of Canada published a book named a new way of living that showed readers quote how to achieve a new way of living. How to preserve tally how to maintain enthusiasm and energy? How to get the most out of life because of physical ability to enjoy it and it touted the all bran cereal as a secret to leading normal lives free of constipation so fiber so if yeah if If you're constipated you cannot enjoy life. Correct yeah this is correct. I I never really had a problem with it until a couple of years ago and Oh my God I suddenly got all the commercials and really really. I've never had a hit. Yeah it was just like now. I know whenever we've dogging him out that's funny. It was bad okay. It was bad bad. I'm better now. Thank you fiber and Oh will Kellogg. Here's a little fun fact. The non non doctor brother was the first to introduce prizes in boxes of cereal. Oh cracker Jack's Jag. Ah I mean that's not a serious. I adding I think prizes at the crash jazz. Let's see I have a lot more on the company but you you can also look that up on Wikipedia and this is going to be long if I don't okay so let's move onto will because by far and away. Dr Kellogg is I wouldn't say the most interesting but he's interesting so we'll get to will quickly. I like well. You're killing me breeze through this kind at this dockers that will Born lead sixty died in nineteen fifty one. He started out selling brooms with his brother. His his father was a broom salesman. And then let's see. He moved to Battle Creek Michigan to help his brother run the battle creek sanitarium. The kelloggs pioneered the process of making flake. Cereal cereal and will want to keep this a secret. But John Allowed any anybody any patience or workers in the sanitarium to to watch it and one of their guests was as we mentioned before C. W. Post. And so he copied the process and started his own company at which became post cereals and then later general foods the source of posts. I million dollars and will got pretty upset and he left the sanitarium and created his own company. And let's see. The brothers eventually argued over the addition of sugar on their product nineteen six will found at the battle creek toasted cornflake company later becoming the Kellogg Company. kellogs said and this is not. This is a weird segue so pause. Oh Oh Kellogg said. I will invest money in people and the Kellogg Foundation quotes him as saying it is my hope that the property that kind providence has brought let me may be helpful to many others and that I may be found a faithful steward and after learning more about him and seeing all the things he did I would say he it did will yeah will is a is a good guy. Here's one thing he did that. I found fascinating in nineteen thirty November. Nineteen thirty. I I have. I have the little news here. He decided the company would go to a six hour. Work Day because of the Great Depression would be able to hire more people Helping the unemployed so they did that. Wages increased twelve twelve and a half percent and then more men were hired to run the company to run the factory twenty four hours a day and put more people to work and and it worked and they kept that for a long time. I can't remember when it stopped or why I didn't. I didn't go into that but it went for a couple to a few decades trades. Wow that's yeah I might have. It didn't last until the eighties but the eighties. Basically when capitalism just kind of flipped and decided it was more important to make money for ourselves and our our stockholders or whatever then and then to invest in the people which is which is interesting. This is coming out now. That did you see that. A Bunch of Oh yeah companies. Were already that he had signed something. Saying we'RE GONNA get we're going to go back to investing in our people and the communities instead of the bottom line anyway So staff increased by twenty percent and shorter hours have benefited stockholders and work hours. So that's cool. Yeah so that was really great they also or he also founded his own foundation founded his own foundation. The W K Kellogg Foundation in June nineteen thirty so this was just a few months before he decided on the workweek six hour. workweek is not a book the six hour workweek or work dash six work. Yeah yeah there's some maybe it's a four hour has what is it. Some sort of thirty five hour workweek or something and everybody looks like we're nuts for having. Yeah we're not allowed to basically have less if less than forty. Yeah you're a slacker. Her and if you don't have like sixty and what are you doing yet trying to have a life. That's what I'm doing the four hour workweek that I've heard of that in a way I think that's like a thing for rich people I call. It's better for you like Oh yeah the resumes that actually have to work. Yeah we don't get that luxury anyway. Continue I guess we'd have to see what correct I have looked into that a bit. Okay so Kellogg Will Kellogg donated more than sixty six million dollars in company stock another investments commits to the trust which is equivalent to nine hundred ninety million dollars in twenty eighteen so the yearly income from that Trust Trust continues to fund the Foundation and as of the early twenty first century. We're still kind of there. The foundation is the seventh largest philanthropic foundation in in the US really yeah. It started out focused on children's health in Michigan and served seven counties in South Central Michigan It targeted targeted K.. Through twelve education and public health in row here. We go the role. CUERVO rural rural rural cookies rural mcnaughton roof and country side community where they like to eat gooky crisps cookie. Chris we did not have sorry. Random actions came up with that sucks make cookies and pour milk all over the most selena cookie and Krista and bree both McKay's okay back to the foundation addition So during the early years of World War Two the foundation went beyond Michigan and the US more than four hundred fifty steady fellowships for Latin American health professionals paved the way for extensive programming in the Southern Hemisphere. I I got a lot of this information from but we compete and the the foundation website and then I tried to look too 'cause obviously it's biased right but yes I tried to look elsewhere and they also gave grants France to help revive a modernized farm economies in Europe war-damaged Europe the annual payout. The amount spent for charity purposes skyrocketed. Did from twenty six thousand dollars in nineteen thirty two four point four million in nineteen fifty five. That's quite a bit of course there's what sort of looking for him inflation. Yes thank you inflation and everything. So I don't know what what that would be. But anyway that's quite a bit They focused on areas of postwar concern. Like the need for more nurses and healthcare administrators and two year community colleges. This I found really interesting in the mid mid eighties. They expanded its program into Southern Africa says in the face of apartheid scholarships from the foundation gave a unprecedented opportunities to black South Africans. Changing social needs also prompted an evolution and foundations grant making resulting in the creation of program areas S. including philanthropy and volunteerism and food systems and rea rural development. Mr Kellogg once said Will Kellogg. I once said dollars. Do Not doc produced character. I got so as its assets have grown. The foundation has considered continued to seek more effective ways to advance his vision of a world. In which all children thrive the current mission statement was adopted in two thousand seven and not says the W K Kellogg Foundation supports children families and communities as they strengthen and create conditions that propelled vulnerable children to achieve success as individuals and as contributors to the larger community and society at the Foundation is investing assets. That's in a way that realizes book financial and social returns so it sounds. I keep that was his thing from the beginning social as well as exactly yeah and an and he had said look. I've been given this. I I want to pass it on and do some good and add a little bit of sugar. Let me ask me some sugar around. Everybody's lost either so they come right back exactly Do you have anything to say any fortifications. Would you like to fortify if I don't find But it was interesting is on live strong DOT com. I think there was a the noted results results from a recent study from the WG which is the environmental working group. That said that major brands still a lot of major brands have cereals with levels of glysophate which is an ingredient found in roundup and it is round up weed killer. Oh my gosh and that that is like beyond the WG's benchmark of safety and That's glysophate is probably carcinogenic to humans. The CRAP APP that we put in our bodies is cray cray. Which is why F- I mean I'm trying my best to get away from processed foods? It's I that I don't process myself like if I make a cake. It's I think is different than if you get the cake. Mix in the you know but then you gotta do like the the Non Gemma in any way talking about going back to be an But anyway with Ford. There's another article tune the New York Daily News. That had that was saying that most cereals are fortified with amounts of minerals and. I don't know if this is still true but I think it is with minerals and vitamins. But that's based on adults and most I would think that must sears. I guess maybe not but that kids seat of it so they're levels said that they had been getting way too high of levels really Do you think kids cereals do though where testing I don't know anyway. I don't see if I don't know run. That one was lies but yeah they were testing album like even which was the two scoops raised Brian? Yep to add those it's the levels are for and if you look in the back it's an adult two thousand Calorie which I can't do? Now let's get down to two thousand calories. I would be way overweight but yeah so all of these levels and things are all for adult level so kids were getting too much. I did see something about this with Kellogg's and an I included at here about the F. T. C.. Finding fault with their claims like frosted mini wheats. Improving kids attentiveness. By nearly twenty percent in fact I'm probably for half an hour after they ate all the sugar and then boom right sugar crash and they. Oh my that's history. Yeah and then. There's there's some other things like a pop tarts I love darts. Oh my gosh. That's a treat for me. I'd get them but they have every so often. Yeah I like the cinnamon in one with the frosting on top and behalf to toast them and then I eat the outside for of course they don't need the normally eat outside. I I actually do eat them do you. Yeah I get the organic one S- because then they're healthy. Yeah but they're not the same. I'm just kidding. Romantic does not mean healthy. But I do off. There are certain offramp things where I'm like. No you gotta get the full on. Yeah Yeah and sugar a little bit better for me. You know marginally better for me getting this brand by knife. You're going to do it. which is why inserted a tree and moderation? Yeah get it released like Soda. That's what we did growing growing up. We didn't have soda all the time. It's kind of a treat. Yeah and that's how I still treat me too same with juice. I drink orange juice. We used to drink orange juice all the time we used to have. Yeah I like the fresh squeezed. Yep kind which is hard to find. sprouts Watt am I remember. We're in Lucille's the elder yeah Great Creole restaurant and Denver. There's this one time where right away. I remember this the waitress my brother and I ordered orange excuse and the waitress looked at my mom and said what they like fresh squeezed or frozen and my mom looked at her and said I don't know ask them. I don't know Y I remember that we were shy so our parents. My parents would never have said that we were so shy. I do ask them. And they probably won't. Like for Rosen Kay So he was was the nice brother. Yeah give me some good okay creepy brother. I don't even know if he's creepy. I just said Creepy Sanatorium. It could be argued. He's he's a lot of things Dr Kelly so he was born in eighteen fifty two and died in nineteen forty three Pretty long lives this yet. They they both they both did. Yeah both I good gene. The cereal yeah you're going. What else could be So real quick sanitarium sanitarium was built on seventh day. Adventists when my views and help principles but something I found. Disagreements disagreements with other members of the church led to a major schism with him and he was developed in nineteen seven but continued to follow the beliefs and directed the sanitarium until his death in nineteen forty three. Oh yeah their parents will in. John's parents believed that the second coming of Christ I was imminent and therefore they did not receive any sort of an education. Formal education was unnecessary but they prematch which educated themselves in reading a whole a whole lot of stuff and some people took Dr Kellogg under under their wings and was to say to be a doctor. Sure don't have to be at least a little bit educated. And he was actually very famous. He was one of the most famous doctors at this time at publishing books as we will get to some really some really good books at but yes But some of the people who took him under his wing he he really believed in what they they were saying and what they did and okay. Here's the thing about Dr Kelly. He had some really good points and did some pretty good things. But then there's there's the other things Soleil lows. Yeah Yeah Yeah well. People are real is usually pretty willie a good one but Dr Kellogg anywhere. for instance. He followed the adventist views. In favor of celibacy he married maintained separate bedrooms never ever consummated his marriage. We'll get into that a little bit. were to hence the masturbation all right keep on godless. Wear a serial comes into a masturbation so the sanitarium can love your cereal. Just don't your cereal so the sanitarium it was huge and people let me seem officially opened. Its doors as a battle creek sanitarium in eighteen sixty Six but opened its doors as of Western Health Reform Institute in Eighteen Sixty seven between eighteen seventy and into the great depression a lot of famous people. It's not just I mean thousands and thousands of people visited but also some famous people such as according to Dr Howard Markel this PBS article. That he wrote John John. D Rockefeller Jr. which I thought this was interesting. He says fleeing from the disastrous events in his family's coal mines at Ludlow Colorado to remember the ludlow massacre. No my gosh. That is pretty horrendous. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford Amelia Earhart before her flights at Warren g harding before for he started his presidential run for Criti- Washington and sojourner truth. George Bernard Shaw and he didn't say this but I found this elsewhere elsewhere. Madame CJ Walker who is a black entrepreneur and philanthropist. But what's fascinating about her is she crew was a self made believe millionaire. So she's a black woman and she creates her own beauty and skin care it products in Hawaii and then it just goes from there. In fact one of our early dates might Benz was to an opera about her and he threw up later nut night. That was this. That was the night on the way home. I was trying to decide. I was like trying to tell him that. I I want to not date other people you know not necessarily like be boyfriend girlfriend or whatever but you know not see other people either. And he wasn't feeling barrel his roommate had been throwing up. Oh I think I remember the so. He's not feeling well on the on the way back doc and he's driving and then all of a sudden he's like I got I gotta pull her so he's Yeah Oh poor man he doesn't need to sell straight anyway so he didn't feel. They did not see interfere their people that no. Aw that's really funny. Oh my Gosh Oh quick fact the complex the US Army purchased the whole complex during in World War Two and they converted it into the Percy Jones Army hospital. And it's it became other things after that but anyway so they came up with sanitarium three am by taking the word sanatorium which was a health resort for invalid soldiers and Change Two letters and a new letter. You're a new word was entered into the English language Kellogg saves the number of patients grew from one hundred six eighteen sixty six to seven thousand six patrons patrons during while wanting six yeah so a lot of people did this. He explored various treatments his patients including diet reform and frequent queant animas. We'll get into that. He encouraged a low fat low protein. Diet with an emphasis on whole grains fiber rich foods and most importantly nuts Kellogg also recommended daily intake a fresh fresh air exercise in the importance of hygiene all good. Maybe the frequent in animals. Not Not so much but all good so the sanitarium was known as the sand. The sand It was world renowned destination of health and healing healing and it was mostly due to Dr Kellogg. Dr Markle says he was a medical celebrity bestselling author magazine editor. Skilled surgeon public health expert a popular speaker. And Seventh Day adventist Christian missionary. He was five foot four. He was a little bigger but athletic and He dressed entirely in white wore glasses and had a pointy beard and proclaimed that God had chosen isn't him to make the world a healthier place. This is to me. This is where things get dangerous. I'm doing the Lord's work. This says cy and again some of this as good. I all of the stuff that we know. Yes this is but then you get to some other stuff anyway. So the people who would visit the thousands of people who would visit would go with Illnesses ranging from cancer to heart disease gastric ulcers digestive disorders and some of the things combined. Where like modern medicine? Modern at the time medicine surgery and Bacteria Lau L. Bacteriology and Hydro Pathy vegetarianism electro therapeutics exercise and spiritual uplift to basically just everything in anything. You can think of. Just toss it in there all the things yeah. They had dozens to hundreds of physicians and Nurses Masseuses Bakers waiters cooks bell hops orderlies and attendance. Dr Kelly himself examined every patient and prescribe to each an individualized plan for the mind body and so they had an enema room and it had an machines that could deliver fifteen courts of water per minute into a human colon. He ordered his patients to produce four or more bowel movements a day. He was obsessed with body clip bodily cleanliness external and internal Turnham If the water were not enough you had to consume a Pint of yogurt each day followed by a yogurt annum or I saw that. Eat Half the yogurt and the other her half is for the animals gusting so yeah which I mean there is something to be said of unit the bacteria the bacteria gut but so he kind of knew who he was. One of the product is almost love and like ahead of his time a little bit. He is a bet and he's one of the first people to realize you know the stomach bacteria and everything thing and and with a yogurt animus. That would try to introduce healthy one so he was kind of on the right track. I guess He has a new restaurant relaxation very important so he had all kinds of entertainment and Diversions Theater Lecture Hall. Dances musicale use a cow's horseriding carriages. sleighs you know hiking besides animals so far so good okay. All the meals in his dining room were were his own creations or he and his wife They were very inventive and willing to test things. which is kind of how the you know the cornflakes came him about but Okay so we talked about the peanut butter nut based meat substitutes vegetables and whole grain based dishes a coffee substitute made of molasses and toasted grains cornflower He said that every bite of whatever you every bite must be chewed at least forty times. Hail not speaking anytime very lightly to smoke the longer times do according to so that one saliva was thoroughly mixed with the food thus initiating a healthy process of digestion and preventing overtaxing the stomach and bowels. He also required his patience to drink eight glasses of water day. Great Forty afforded chewing forty times is a little ridiculous but Garfield would not approve exactly He his philosophy was called biological living. So you you know healthy eating and vigorous exercise plenty of fresh air complete abstinence from sex alcohol caffeine and tobacco one of his most popular SEABROOK's tobacco ISM published in eighteen. Twenty two is considered by many medical historians to be the first popular text alerting Americans to the dangers of tobacco smoking. Oh yeah so that's interesting. Oh some of his contraptions by the way are on the Queen. Mary like we can go see some of them. Awhile like the Mechanical Slapping Ping massage device. I'm not sure which contraptions are met. Queen Mary but we have the mechanical slapping massage device. And you basically stand in front of this thing with like like ribbons that like slap you back and forth The ARC lamp treatment to ear and there is a picture of a gentleman sitting in a chair and an and with a light shining in his ear and the window tent for fresh air sleeping instead of opening up the window. They had this like ventilation and system. Where you've got like a big tube and it creates a comes out and creates a a tent over your head so you get the fresh air drought way over your head? Yeah Yeah Okay without opening the window. Hey so good that Oh but here we go. Let's move on to Masturbate Shaan now. All of this came from Theresa Neil from Jessica and a few other a few other places. Okay so as we you said he's doing the will of God and now let's get into the destructive power of masturbation. He strongly warned against the habit in his own. Words saying being claiming of masturbation related deaths such a victim literally dies by his own hand. He felt that it destroyed physical and mental health health and moral health as well he also believed the practice of this solitary vice as he called. It caused cancer of the womb. Urinary Diseases Doctrinal emissions impotence epilepsy insanity mental or physical and or physical ability. He thought that masturbation was the worst evil. One could commit goodness he wanted you to avoid consumption of sexually aggressive food. Like T- Candy Cinnamon peppermint they show on one hand. This guy knows that bacteria gut is good for you. Good for you and that you need to exercise and eat well and And and then on the other hand peppermint is GonNa give you cancer. No manager Komo peppermint will will I guess What story I'm looking for? We'll give as evil and more. You WanNa Masturbate. Yes no the Yes it. It's an APHRODISIAC. Basically or as Morris as an love island. It'll give you the the fanny flowers. The final honours my God. Then you'll wanNA masturbate and that is evil and can lead to death and cancer while he said this is a direct quote tea and coffee have led led thousands to perdition in this way candies. Spices cinnamon cloves peppermint and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organs and lead need to the same result. So basically you need to be boring And plane and your cornflake eight your cornflakes sugar in them simion. Oh now similar dreaming and Ren Sleep. That's the 'cause that's That happens because of masturbating and if you have a clean mind and you're you're not doing any of that you don't dream and he would disregard any patients claimed that they can't control their dreams And he would say that she chooses to so as to continue lascivious desires as to rezone. You'll put it. Here are the symptoms. He gave gave to parents to identify whether or not their child was engaging in the secret vice quote unquote that wedding changes in Behavior Insomnia Trouble Colin School. Lying bashfulness boldness fearfulness unusual vaginal discharge seductive behavior in little girls. Okay so basically. Every normal behavior of a child ever. Yeah well all of the and yeah having a lot more of these is is cause for concern because these will maybe unusual. Vaginal national discharge is not a stretch vaginal bright cow. Besides that the rest of that town's like all normal childhood stuff. Yeah but if you see there's there's a good all I'm not arguing for it by the way I'm not saying these are signs masturbation what I am going to tell you as these are the exact that same symptoms that modern medicine psychology identifies as potential signs of a child. Being sexually abused are though changes because being bowled a child very bold children. They're bashful children. Yeah heads lie astronauts at well I think I think they mean being suddenly bashful. Oh okay out or having bashful to maybe in certain places yeah said Solo instead of. Yeah it's these. Children have been sexually abused. He's thinking oh they're they're masturbating and so instead of them being victims they're bad. Yeah Super. Yeah yeah he was a leader of the Anti Masturbation Movement which was a thing and he promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation he circumcised incised himself at the age of thirty seven and to rehabilitate cereal. masturbaters he would would mutilate without anesthetic on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and with girls. He applied carbolic acid to her clitoris. fucker yeah So the the men eventually will still. They can still masturbate after after. They're better for the boys after they're better the girls though that took away their pleasure and was incredibly tortuous so here ah when I talked about being under you know. Somebody's wing when the person's was ellen g white and he was also an adherent of Sylvester. Graham who who inspired the creation of the Graham cracker and that was advocated to keep the Diet plane to prevent sexual arousal. That's where you're Graham crackers come from but they're delicious you know. Wake me want to mess debate so much less because the marshmallows chocolate on foot autumn. Oh and they have means oh my gosh out. So he okay so he fought a plane line and a healthy diet with only two meals. A day would reduce sexual feelings and those experiencing temptation were to avoid stimulating food and drink. When I get as very a little meat sexual? He'd Lynn. I'm sorry Cornelia okay. So he wrote a bunch of books On this at when I say a bunch of books it's the same book it just keeps getting added to over the years so the first one first suggestion of plain facts about sexual life was published in eighteen. Seventy seven when he was unmarried. So this is the first one three hundred fifty six pages consuming. He doesn't have any children. No we'll how could he. They fostered a lot and officially adopted a handful but no biological children which might be. I don't know so. He and his wife apparently during their honeymoon added a one hundred fifty six more pages and the new edition claim facts for old and young came out in eighteen. Seventy nine two years later and it's now five hundred twelve pages by eighteen eighty six. It was six hundred forty four pages by nineteen o one seven hundred twenty pages nineteen o three seven hundred ninety eight and in nineteen seventeen. He published a four volume edition of nine hundred pages because he wasn't having sex or masturbating. Yes great right yeah exactly. He's trying to get that that that out somehow nine hundred pages. Oh my gosh is that all I have. Oh Yeah I mean. There is so much more information I took out. Why did you see my face? I love doing this more for the podcast because I love how excited you get. Yeah and I just sit back with whatever food. We have right now now mail to been crunching on the GRANOLA sitting bag listening to Chris. It's fascinating there. There was Kellogg opened up a cereal bar in Times Square. I think it was a pop up and they did one here in. La That's a pop up or yeah it was a squirrel caffeine Kellogg's and it was called breakfast for dinner. Oh wait a second. This one had it was limited time. We missed it. This was a couple years ago. A breakfast thing pop up it featured innovative sweet savory and delicious cereal infused dishes that are short. Please any breakfast liver so here. Just a few the fruit loops. French toast looked motherfucking delicious. Our species Scott. A Scotch Egg at Special K Tong Katsu breakfast bowl and this one. Oh my God. We'll watch the what the KRISPIES Scotto. The Special K. Tom Katsu breakfast bowl. It was a Japanese bull. Looks I got intrigued. Yes and Macho Rice krispies treats with smoked ocht strawberries. Oh no not going to be on that in my mouth and we discovered there is a cereal bar downtown channeling so I found. I'm up with this up yet. from Rosetto Dot Com. They had a list of seventeen cereal. Cafes from around the world I only wrote down. I think London does Oh yeah would you like. I think I have a picture of really yeah Let's see the first soon cafe in London is called serial killer cafe at the hundred types of cereal whereas thirty types of milk and twenty toppings and they even can have a cookbook. Wow so I actually Kinda WanNa get the book now. It's called serial killer cafe cookbook and it has Five Oh and then. There was one in France that is called bull and Bagel and Clermont Farrar France. And it's an upscale hands-free fraught S- Claremont fraying and French France would call it. It's France would it. I call it a camera called France. Yeah it's in French and then That's an upscale cereal Israel bar of course and then there's one called serial lovers in Madrid which has over a hundred and fifty types of cereal sixty toppings into beverages and my sister they used to live in Madrid so I asked her if she had never been there and she's like I haven't even heard of it. I think yeah big cities you there so much yeah. There's so much to do so and if you don't happen to hear about like the pop-up Yongin hear anything about that We're not in the coup telling us but Allah a WHO kids with puppets and their music in your modern day music. They able these days. Yeah you ran out. I'm good did you. Did you any other facts. Nobody return of. I only wrote a few things. Okay ready would you get. I haven't fasting Alzheimer's et Cetera. So Yup various diseases and research and everything and Madame. Cj Walker Okay I had those as people I mentioned can also that Jesus Super Bowl poker milk. Milk nut butter or not. The two -Tarian ISM sanitariums capitalism. This to says Ville I don't I know who he is but Fill fill we can. Let's do a whole world. I don't know why I wrote pill Gut Bacteria Korea Tobacco Oh and Ludlow massacre had circumcision genital mutilation but I really don't go out and yeah you just mentioned in them it's like okay So maybe write down talk to and see if we have a matching. Okay okay. I'm not going to out all the other people. Okay All right wait. What were the last few after capitalism sanitariums capitalism phil look what all the fills famous cels? There's doctor nurse Hi everybody. I'm Dr Who Rousselin from the Simpsons. Hi Everybody I'm Dr Along Dr. McClellan they haven't McClure meal. I'm troy McClure's McLaren Footsie they have one on sesame street. Dr Phil Yeah. I can't remember named gut bacteria area and tobacco. Okay okay okay. What are your top up to okay? Capitalism K. and having a tough time trying to side between just picked just pick one. Because if you don't match then we'll go to undermine for okay ludlow Lo let's go at the ludlow massacre okay. My top tour intermittent fasting in tobacco. So what are what's three and four. You tell me three important so my three and four are nuts and madame. Cj Walker her okay so my three and four are madame CJ Walker and tobacco so we have to okay CJ Walker and tobacco so now we will you get. It almost did that one and then I'm like Especially because I've had this book it's called the S. word The history of an American tradition socialism. Thumping okay I completely messed up that title. It's about socialism. And how how it is is an American tradition. Okay this time you have to choose Dylan. an-an-an-and antennas is those are is. Oh here we go. You want my right. Hinder my the left hand. No left what is it. What is it what is our next one? Is Tobacco Baggy. Okay well we get into a lot of stuff with no. Yeah we can yeah. ooh This'll be interesting. This'll be unsettling Yeah Yeah Oh my we're going to delve into a lot of things with that one. You already tell yeah. So what's interesting about settled stone in. Forget about that until we we have to do. What's interesting about the Sierra one is? We didn't get into the history. And the first cereals and Blah Blah Blah alive I because I automatically skip that I know I learned automatically skip over. The history is so funny too because of my own. I figured out how the name Cereal Kim about even write that one down Krista GonNa do now I decided I knew I knew a bit about the Kellogg's dugs and their history and I was like this is so interesting though interesting. Yeah I'm Krista Q.. Alright so well done you. You will see series thank you thank you. You got us of wheat and Agriculture and Agriculture and Oh harvest service to harvest culture culture They're beautiful all right till next time. Oh how do we get out of this one. Just take a by. There's not a pun. Shouldn't they all end on puns. No see do mm-hmm delude. doodoo could do little Dune. Do do do do do.
Corn Flakes |The Kelloggs' Legacy | 4
"From wondering I'm Steven Johnson and this in American innovations and today we conclude our series on cornflakes John Harvey Kellogg and his brother will keep Kellogg fought bitterly with each other other through out most of their lives and even though the men never saw eye-to-eye on anything one fact is clear their innovations forever change the American breakfast experience but the Kellog success doesn't just belong to damp it was as much a product of their hard work as it was the times in which they lived America's changing all around will Kellogg embraced the Industrial Revolution's newest innovations electricity telephones refrigeration rail transport without these his cereal empire wouldn't have been possible John Harvey Kellogg envision cereal as a means to a healthier lifestyle at a time when indigestion was was a huge problem across the country. The Nation collectively had a stomach ache and John Harvey Kellogg and early Pioneer Wellness wanted to provide a cure through better food food religion and clean living and even though the cornflakes of the late eighteen hundreds were nothing like the cereals we know today. There's no denying that without the Kellogg brothers inventions vision and savvy breakfast as we know it could have been wildly different. Our guest on today's episode is Howard Marquel. He's he's a medical historian and professor at the University of Michigan. He's also the author of an extensive biography of John. Will Kellogg called the Kellogg's the battling brothers of Battle Creek the book traces the lives of the Keller brothers from their early days through the bitter battles. They waged against each other. We'll talk with Howard about how he discovered. The the story of the Kellogg brothers also discuss how their innovations change the world of medicine and business and of course what we eat for breakfast today that's next American. Innovations is brought to you by chase so you're about to retire or maybe you're about to become an empty nestor either way. You're looking to downsize their challenges that come with this time in your life like what happens. If you sell your old home before you found a new one sounds excatly stuff you faced a lot in your time and you know that when you're facing challenges it pays to be creative to be innovative at chase. They get it and they've got your back as chase customer. You're guaranteed. Close on your next home quickly or you get a thousand dollars simply. Put Chase gets you in your next home. Faster learn more car chase dot com slash. Ai Chase make more of what's yours. Homeland in products are subject to credit and property approval rates program terms and conditions are subject to change without about notice. Not all products are available in all states for all amounts other restrictions and limitations apply home lending products offered by J. P. Morgan Chase Bank. Na an equal housing lender Howard marquel welcome to American innovations. Thank you so we really enjoyed listening to this series of episodes on the Kellogg brothers and it's all based on on a book that you wrote and I just wanted to start with the question of how you got to that topic of me written books about influenza and other pandemics and disease. How did you get into a kind of a cereal magnate and kind of that nineteen sixty revolution in nutrition and health at Kellogg brothers introduced right so the the title that because the Kellogg's battling brothers of Battle Creek but the book look I wrote before was called an anatomy of addiction about Sigmund Freud and a Johns Hopkins Surgeon William Halstead whose name you might not know but he's responsible for almost all of the safety techniques that we use to this day in the operating room and I was actually in Vienna having a great research trip with colleagues and I was going home the next day and I suddenly felt a somebody knife in the back and when I did herniated two discs six and a flying home was just such joy but when I got home it was a very slow recovery and I was thinking. What would my next book be and and are really I wasn't interested in the dynamics of the two brothers. I was more interested in John Harvey Kellogg and all of his papers. I were at the University of Michigan Archive Library the Bentley Library so generally you know when as you know when you design a book project you have to know where the paper is where early archives and there about three hundred boxes of this material writing in Ann Arbor where I live and I thought that was the first convenience project I've ever I've ever done you're all going to be about him and I and then the more you get into a book. It's like jumping in a giant lake and you're swimming around. You don't know quite where you are aren't then you figure it out and I said to my editor time like you can't just be about John. Harvey Kellogg it also has to be about will who has his assistant for twenty five years but you know the dynamics between the two brothers was so fascinating and of course it really carried a narrative arc to the story that I called called my utterance and it's gotta be about both and she said well. I knew you were going to do that the whole time and why didn't you tell me meal out but that and that's that's how it came to be but it was initially. You know you're right. I've written mostly about epidemics and addiction and school health all sorts of things but I'd never written about alternative medicine. If you will bill or I never tackled really fully biography of two men. You know I had another question about the archives here. It's my understanding that the Kellogg company today a kind of tightly restricts the information available about about will himself so what was the process of finding materials to work with in in terms of his story yeah well we'll papers are kept by the we'll Kellogg Foundation and they very tightly control those papers and will not allow you to quote from from them unless they can edit the book or manuscript that you produce which no historian can do and the Kellogg company while it doesn't have a lot of personal personal stuff per se on will has a lot of annual reports and all sorts of other things but like many major companies that archive is an internal archive men only for the use use of employees so that was a big roadblock fortunately not only did will write a lot of letters to other places where the archives were in fact open the two brothers suit each other constantly for over ten years and there were piles and piles of depositions there were almost you know literally reading plays because they're written in script form and from those you could get a great sense of how well spoke and also but he thought aww and particularly what he thought about when they were inventing cornflakes or he was working for them as and other issues so it was possible to do a work around and get a great deal of information about we'll. Kellogg now some of will's stuff has been published in an old corporate biography some of his diary so you could use that and also there was this wonderful unpublished memoir by his grandson Norman Williamson Junior. That was very helpful so so that's basically how I approached it. Put it was a roadblock but it was just a joy now the other issues that I am from Michigan. You can probably hear it in my flat. Mr An an accident so the the great thing you did as a as an elementary school child is you went onto field trips one was to the Ford Motor Company in Dearborn Michigan Michigan and he saw the Assembly Li- most of my peers love that and the other was that you took the long trip from the Detroit suburbs to battle creek to cereal city and it was just as wonderful place of those five miles of conveyor belts and beautiful stainless steel pots and all sorts. I think that everybody was dressed. In white and you could smell corn toasting and at the end of the line in the boxing room they gave you two things a Tony The tiger bowl and and a little box as it was called in nineteen sixty six still sugar frosted flakes. That's the name and that Fox was warm and toasty and it was finished long before we got the school bus to go back home. I still have my Tony. The Tiger Ball but it was the best bowl of cereal ever for hand and I I guess I've been looking for that for that bowl of cereal ever since two I actually that was one of the things that I thought was so interesting about the story. The the that's a small part of it but is fascinating is the creation of this kind of breakfast cereal hub. There's like a Silicon Valley of breakfast cereal that happens right in this little tiny town in the middle the mitten basically in nineteen hundred over a hundred different cereal companies and many of them you know flopped and failed but you know c w post was a copycat and or other companies companies as well but it is fascinating that it it it happened there and by the way the reason why the Kellogg family lived there that they were seventh day adventists and they came to follow Ellen James White the founders of the seventh day adventist church which was originally in Rochester New York but they came to Battle Creek and that was sort of the Vatican City city of the the seventh day adventist church. I want to take a little bit more context on John Kelly at that period first off. Can you say a little bit about the role that religion played in his yeah. Come Science and an role as a health advocate yeah so you know John. Harvey Kellogg was sort of the Darling of James James and Ellen white even when he was a young teenager he was such a bright young man and such a charismatic and brilliant doctor and he offered had had dinner at their house on cold nights he slept over so he picked up a lot of ellen white's ideas about not just Christianity per se but also the notion Russian and this was very common in many denominations of Christianity after the second after the second grade awakening but there were many denominations of preach. Your body is a temple temple and if you don't take care of your body you will not ascend to heaven when the rapture happens so he got a lot of those ideas initially from her support for American innovations nations comes from capital one with the spark cashcard from capital one you earn unlimited two percent cashback on all of your business purchases think about attic unlimited two percent cashback on everything you buy for. Your Business. Dot cash-back can add up to thousands of dollars which you can reinvest back into your business so you can keep growing imagine what unlimited two percent cashback could do for your business. Learn more at capital one dot com. What's in your wallet. People start companies for a variety of reasons. Maybe they fall in love with the freedom of being your own boss or maybe they wanna make their mark as an innovator in their chosen field but there's one thing all businesses have in common in order to be successful. You've got to get the word out. People need to to know your story and the best way to tell that story is with a beautiful professional website from wicks dot com with wicks you can start by building a site from scratch or choose a beautiful template then customize it to look and perform exactly the way you want and if you need to get online fast just dancer a few simple questions and wicks will instantly build a website just for you complete with design images text. Now's the time to tell your story. Tori wicks DOT COM is the place to make it happen. Get started today and build a website you'll be proud of and if you go to Wicks DOT COM uh-huh and use the coupon code. Ai You'll get ten percent off when you're ready to go premium. That's WICKS DOT com code for ten percent off any premium plan. Kellogg is such an interesting figure. John Keller is such an interesting figure because he's he's kind of wild hybrid of some ideas that actually were very ahead of their time that feel very contemporary and and it have you know whether it's actual scientifically visionary visionary things or just modern things sound very kind of new age in a twenty first century new age and then there are these ideas like female genital mutilation and Eugenics and all these things that are important to us today and that are pretty much clearly kind of beyond the Pale. That's one of the things that makes him such a fascinating figure. It seems to me and and what did you. Mak- that having spent so much time kind of living through his life well he's a problematic figure a lot of his ideas he you know he read several languages and he read the medical literature quite extensively. He was also a very good surgeon. He did over ten thousand procedures in his career so he followed just about everything but he would shoehorn born new ideas and new science to fit his worldview that had already been developed largely through his Christian faith in the seventh day adventist church but he had a lot of ideas that we would find uncomfortable at the very least he didn't really do genital mutilation per se but what he was against as were many many many doctors whether they were seventh day adventists are not against the solitary vice of masturbation and and so there were things that he would prescribe that sound very horrible binding the genitals of pudding carbolic acid on the a finger tips or even you know doing and then there was actually rarely they were mutilating. I guess if you they were not they were not good eyedrops right he would put sutures through the penis and things like that terrible idea and they're in his textbooks but and the U. Janet thing is very complicated because he was was like have to tell you if you study a white anglo-saxon Protestant men and their wives in late nineteenth early twentieth century Tree America. You'RE GONNA find a lot of genesis you don't have to lift a particularly among progressively history of honored singer. Teddy Roosevelt Yeah Yeah Yeah this was this pseudoscience captured their inherent racism things that they were taught that the Nordic races were superior earlier to the other reasons. They were taught this in school lot of America. You know we don't think about this but this was common. Teaching Presidents talked about the senator's scientists university presidents and so on so it was very common. He took it to another extreme now. His eugenics is very interesting form as he called it you thanks and it was almost like Lamar archaism where if you adopted good behaviors exercise good eating and so on you could intern pass that on to your property. The hardcourt eugenicist thought he was silly when he said that the other thing that is maybe some lighter in its implications but the striking about chunk. Lx Life is that here you have someone who is working on so many different levels some of them actually quite quite laudable some of them you know pretty malevolent with all these ambitious goals of transforming people in their lives and their health and society but his ultimate it will cut of largest in fact actually is what we have for breakfast yeah that ends up being the way that he truly changes the world. What what can you just like. What was the American breakfast invest before the Kellogg brothers got got into this world so young the poor mothers of the country would have to think about you have a wood burning stove and it's the middle of winter. You've got to start that going and then if you're making a grain like mosh or early forms of oatmeal your cooking that for forty five to sixty minutes let's or you're making eggs. If you're wealthy or near a farm and bacon potatoes were very common breakfast as well but they would all be sort of simmered numbered upper sauteed or whatever the chef term is in the grease from last night's meal so it's a lot of heavy fried fatty meals and if there's meat involved particularly perform refrigerators it tended to be heavily salted or cured these were very heavy salty time consuming meals and after nineteen o five nine zero six would you could have a box of cereal. Gosh even dad could make breakfast and it also coincided with another national trend the development of clean a homogenize pasteurized milk that was being sold in refrigerated counters that was being transported in refrigerated trucks and that instead of the old system of getting a cup of milk from the grocer that was taken out of dirty. Can it was now a hygienic way to serve milk and you can't really have a bowl cornflakes without at least a half a cup of milk by the way that that that breakthrough the safe milk yeah transformation. That's one of the Great Health Revolutions of the twentieth century. I mean that really it really isn't it. It really is I rail out a lot about that. At the book and the old fashioned way was that it would come on a horse and buggy in milk cans and grocers grocers would buy a can and they would dole it out into another receptacle that the housewife took into the grocer was brought home. There was no refrigerator so if it was cold hold you could leave it out on the fire escape or the window but it went bad very quickly and even in transport it could be carrying all kinds of bacteria area. There was also the problem that a lot of milk was adulterated by unethical grocers farmers or in between people and it could be watered down and that would be the best of all worlds or it could be adulterated with white chalky substances and really made into a UN nutritious mess ends ends really important for infant feeding because a lot of infants were dying of diarrhea because they were getting tainted milk yeah. It's another reason another thing we need to say to our kids like yeah. You know back in the day the milk would kill you. Yeah yeah should appreciate your having a bowl of cereal talking to die and right three days. The the motto wouldn't have got milk it would be you can have it exactly so as he's kind of products start to get developed. These kind of ready ready to eat breakfast. Cereals Kellogg's kind of together start collaborating on John is initially or really for most of his life resistant to the idea of making a ton of right right well. Where does that come from. Well you know he created. He is best remembered for his role in clerk lakes but he created a lot of health foods. He was responsible for getting soya milk and almond milk and other nut. MEESE milks manufacturers a lot of foods that he created but he created them all for his flock for his patients but back then if a doctor advertised his wears if he took out ads or in some way commercialized voiced his work there was held to pay with his local medical society all the way up to the American Medical Association and he was even though Oh he did some things that were on the fringes or that was not what Orthodox medical doctors practice he very much wanted to be part of you know the elite cadre of American physicians and if he had done something like come out with John Harvey kelloggs cornflakes he would there will be charges which is brought up against them so in addition to the the food innovation particularly will one of his key roles was in the kind of marketing and advertising side of that's where a lot of the kind of new ideas also were developed yeah. Can you give us a little bit of a sense of this specific techniques that will pioneered in terms of marketing to to specifically typically mothers and two kids right that was his demographic mothers and kids so there was wonderful pictures of mothers serving nutritious meals to their children in in these ads they also had little coupons so that you could get free samples of the cereal and for children he invented the toy in the box and the first one was a coloring book called the Kellogg's Funny Jungle Land Coloring Book and there was a double advantage to this the kids loved it of course and it also took up more more room in the box in the cornflakes and was much cheaper to make than a cornflakes so everybody wants but the toy in the box was a huge innovation. I can't I don't know of a single kid or adult who hasn't smiled when you say there's that toy in the box in your box of cereal and so he was brilliant then he invested millions wins and millions and millions of dollars every year to this very day even the creation of their own set of cartoon characters you know. Tony The tiger and snap crackle Oh pop and so on so they didn't have to pay people like the Disney Studio to borrow theirs they were really really right on on top of that the throughout Wales career he also used some of the kind of health and wellness brand that was associated with his brother's career yes and so there's always this kind of complicated aided dance between will kind of adding a little more sugar too yeah lakes and you know introducing this kind of more commercial advertising ising techniques and animated characters and things like that but at the same time there is kind of aura of health and wellness respectability that he got from his brad healthy nutritious. It's just right healthy nutritious breakfast for you know a box with fifteen cents or something like that ten cents you know the sugar ization of cereal happened after will had retired. I mean the level of sugar frosted flakes and all that what he did he added a little bit of sugar and a little a bit of salt to the cornflakes by the way he had incredible pallet so when he said this tasted good it did to a lot of people so while John Harvey Kellogg went nuts when he found out about that. It was not as much as we have today. Were there you know vitamins that are basically served in sugarcubes or their their actual marshmallows in the NBA reese's peanut Butter Cup cereal. thankless children have purchased. That's only for them but it has been brought into our home well. I I must confess I. I'm a cocoa KRISPIES guy. The guy not so different but during will's career the idea of health and nutrition was very very important to him and he was one of the first cereal makers to add a vitamins you know X. Fortify his cereals with vitamins. I in a spray form on top of the flakes and then later in the recipe itself. He was very interested as his brother was in regular bowel habits that was very important to the Kellogg family and so will was very much interested in all that the the other part of cereals that would be much more recognizable to dad's and mother's today today and especially to kids with you know candy coated cereals. That's really a post nineteen. Fifty to nineteen fifty five phenomenon will died in nineteen fifty one well. I think that gets to one of the the key can of themes that run through the story which is today we think of kind of processed foods and kind mass-marketed supermarket cereals as not so healthy and as maybe something we want to steer away from in Kellogg's age you know early nineteen hundreds they were kind of WanNa sign of of health and wellness but also kind of sense of being modern in a way they were the kind of the new thing and I think what what you're saying is that in a way that was accurate because of what the norm had been before that it was so bad right that having a sugar kind of process cereal was in fact acton improvement over the girl that we were eating before right and especially thing about Luthan about nine hundred fifty s with the sugars ation of cereal but in the nineteen nine hundred zero one thousand nine hundred ninety s when it's basically it's cornflakes shredded wheat is another company but will later made his own shredded wheat bran flakes that's pretty much it and those really were healthier alternatives to what a lot of people had been eating and the notion of processed food because it is corn in its natural state. A kernel of corn is very different to a cornflake. You have to a lot of things to that corn kernel to to make a cornflake and that was considered modern look at the stuff we can make out of thin air. Practically you know it was a new and improved product and that really goes with a much broader ethos in trend in American culture and society at the early part of the twentieth century. You could actually improve approve upon nature with human ingenuity. Now we now know medically that eating a bowl of cornflakes cornflakes have what's called a very very high glycemic index so it's easier to digest but it will raise your blood sugar very high and then it'll raise your insulin very high to take that take care of that excess the sugar in the bloodstream and then you'll have a plummeting of both and you'll be hungry very quickly thereafter. That's why we now suggest low. Oh glycemic grains like oatmeal and not roll though but actual oatmeal like steel cut oatmeal because it takes a lot longer to digest in. You're not hungry by eight ten. Am and so that's lucky charms. Where would it fit in that. I I think cornflakes would be about twenty times each Dr Yeah by the way that's general foods product so I'm not I didn't really studied but yeah but there's they're all these candy kind no. That's that's okay all right. I'm I tell you I would never suggest the still I just WanNa. Get bring it back. You know for for the last question to what you were saying at the beginning which I thought was so oh striking which is kind of set out to write this book about John and then found your way into will because he was such an interesting character. I think that that is that's kind of a wonderful observation observations. I think that's true of a lot of great books that the you know I I would. I would wager a disproportionate number of really good to have that kind of swerve in their process with author thinks they're writing one thing at the start and then they got drawn organically into slightly different book at in a way that's that's kind of the way innovation off it works right where you're trying to solve the problem and you get pulled into another one but I'm curious you know looking at having gone through this whole process and Kinda living with these brothers for multiple multiple years in researching and writing this you know what is the thing that stayed with you or kind of most surprised you about that about that story will i. I'm flattered that you think by that makes me smile and I think it's true that all good books and all great innovations that if you know exactly what you're gonNA find you'll probably going to find it and and it's also about good science too is that you probably should keep an open mind and go were the data takes you go where the archives take you as far as the. Kellogg brothers first of all John Harvey Kellogg was a brilliant man. A charismatic man who innovated a Lotta need ideas and also hit a lot of very bad ones but it was a very interesting testing figure in American medicine will is one of the major tycoons of the twentieth century and of American patients without fear of anyone contradicting getting such a statement what struck me most was how absolutely destructive their relationship was to each other their relations nations were so horrible they didn't speak for many years in yet they needed each other the doctor needed will to run his medical empire and indeed to help him come up with with cornflakes and will who was a broom salesman when he started working for the sanitarium needed his brother to get a really good job even though he didn't think so at the time but you couldn't find a better finishing school a better business school to run the Kellogg's company then running and being Dec- coo if you will of the Battle Creek Creek Sanitarium but it came at such a huge psychic cost will was really good at making cornflakes. He loved the Kelloggs cornflakes company but his life was very very sad. He had two failed marriages. he fired his son from the company. he fired his grandson and his grandson than committed suicide data at a very young age. He never felt satisfied in his own skin. he was very sad. Insecure man despite his many great accomplishments and you know we would be remiss if we didn't mention his greatest accomplishment was creating the W K Kellogg Foundation which is a now how he nine billion dollar foundation as one of the largest foundations in the world that help children and families all around the world to this day so you know he really was is a great man. Only he didn't feel that way and there was a comment from his grandson. His grandson wrote an unpublished memoir. His name was Norman Williamson Simpson Junior and he said when we buried our grandfather no-one shed a tear and to me that was the saddest story that ever came out of Battle Creek Michigan well Howard cow. Thank you so much for this conversation. This is the best kind of interview you've got fascinating history and and dietary advice don't eat too much. Don't exercise that muscle that brings the forty mile. That's my best uh-huh from wondering this has been the American innovations. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you like our series please give us a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe were available on Apple podcasts Jason spotify NPR one and every major listening APP as well as at wondering Dot Com American innovations has hosted by me Steven Johnson for more information information on my books about science and innovation you can visit my website. WWW Steven Berlin Johnson dot com this series was based on the book the Kellogg the Battling Brothers of Battle Creek written by Howard Marquel. Our producer for this episode is Adriana cargill executive produced by Marshal Louis and Hernan Lopez us for wondering.
039 | Bird Brain
"Our world is full of the unexplainable. And if history is in open book, all of these amazing tales right there on display just waiting for us to explore. Welcome. The cabinet of curiosities. Livestock never fares. Well in a tornado, I think many of us remember that icon scene in the movie twister when a cow Moos across the screen as it's carried away in a funnel of wind and debris. But tornadoes, and the creature is caught up within them can teach us a few things about the wind and the way it moves. That was the thought mathematician Elias Loomis had in eighteen forty two. After hearing reports about naked chickens yet. You heard me. Right naked chickens farmers in Ohio had noticed poultry walking around without their feathers following tornado that tore through their town and it happened enough. That folks didn't really think anything about it. Loomis the featherless foul as an opportunity to measure a tornado's. Wind speeds, a feat previously thought impossible keep in mind. This was the eighteen forties. Well, before animal rights organizations monitored how scientists use living creatures in their studies Elias Loomis had a hypothesis and almost no oversight. I'm sure you can see where this is going Loomis killed a chicken and launched its body out of a small cannon clocking in at a top speed of over three hundred forty miles per hour, the bird flu high and far leaving in its wake a cloud of feathers and enough meat to make a few chicken nuggets. Tornadoes must spin at a slow rate. He thought and continued his research. Unfortunately, his test proved unsuccessful the technology being what it was at the time. He was unable to gather enough data on just how quickly tornadoes turned nor their effects on the local livestock. It wasn't until over a century later when Bernard and atmosphere scientist at SUNY Albany took a closer look Bernard had spent his early career at General Electric, researching the atmosphere he discovered the effects of what happened when silver iodide was injected into clouds they formed ice crystals and Bernard thought he might be able to use this to control precipitation. In fact, his work is still used today by cloud seeding companies that can produce rain on demand in drought stricken areas. After he left. GE Bernard went on to work for Arthur D little the company that helped create the word processor and the NASDAQ stock exchange which eventually led him to the university of Albany. It was there where he learned about Elias Loomis research on wind speed and naked chickens Bernard wasn't sure Lummus had been on the right track. But technology had advanced to the point where new research wouldn't need to harm animals in the process. So he took a crack at it himself. He dropped some chickens into a wind tunnel, the kind they use to test aircraft, and then turned it on and it worked well sort of the chickens loss, plenty of feathers, but inconsistently and not enough to classify them as naked. They were honestly just sort of patchy and ran around clucking angrily. It didn't take long for Bernard's. A realized that chickens made terrible gauges of wind speed. But that didn't stop him from earning an ignoble prize in nineteen ninety seven no, not a Nobel prize an ignoble prize ignoble, get it. It's a satirical award given to ten bizarre or benign achievements in scientific research Bernard one for his paper chicken plucking as measure of tornado win speeds. Bernard's work also found its way into popular culture. His research of ice, crystal formations and clouds became the basis for the substance ice nine in Kurt Vonnegut. It's nineteen sixty three novel cat's cradle it turns out Vonnegut had worked as a publicist for General Electric in the late forties. So he knew all about Bernard's work. Even though he didn't have a college degree himself. GE hired Kurt to help advertise the company scientific breakthroughs. The B honest, any other applicant as unqualified as Kurt Vonnegut would have been turned away at the door, but he had two things working in his favor burst. He lied. He told gee that he held a master's degree in anthropology from the university of Chicago, which he certainly did not is other advantage was that he had a little help from the inside. And turns out that his brother already worked for GE where he worked as an atmospheric scientist his brother Bernard bonnet. This episode of cabinet of curiosities was made possible by fracture. Almost everyone takes shares photos online, but very few of those photos end up printed and even fewer end up on display. Maybe it's time to focus on the moments. That mean, the most in your life by turning your favorite digital memories into meaningful decor instead of printing on photo paper fracture, prints directly onto glass, turning your favorite photographs into works of art. And they come ready to display right out of the box, even including a wall hanger ranchers are US made from US source materials. All right inside a green and modern carbon-neutral factory. The prince make thoughtful unique gifts for just about anyone on your holiday shopping list. And they're sleek frame list design goes with any decor right now cabinet of curiosities listeners can get a special discount on their first order by visiting fracture me dot com slash curiosities. When you do they're going to ask you how you heard about fracture. So don't forget to tell them that cabinet of curiosities that you enjoyed that discount today. That's fracture me dot com slash curious. These. Before at kipnes before south beach before Jazzercise and soul cycle and tai-bo. There was battle creek sanitarium founded in eighteen sixty six in battle creek Michigan. The sanitarium wasn't a mental health facility. Like we're used to seeing today back then the word sanitarium was very Asian on the word sanatorium, which came to define a health resort for injured soldiers. It had been owned and operated by the Seventh Day Adventists denomination of Protestants who believe in healthy living straight from the good book. No meets no shellfish indefinitely. No, alcohol or tobacco were allowed. It was strict, but some people believed it was also beneficial. Strangely enough. Not a whole lot of people win for that sort of thing. Battle creek started small with no more than a hundred patients in the beginning. But when Dr John Harvey arrived at the turn of the century. He wanted to change all of that under Dr John's leadership. He quickly grew the sanitariums meagre attendance from one hundred two over seven thousand patients with a staff of over eight hundred assisting at any given time he turned battle creek into a well oiled machine dedicated to making lives better for a nominal fee. Of course. John was himself a Seventh Day Adventist. And as part of his theology. Believe strongly in the churches push toward vegetarianism and away from sin in order to achieve the ladder. He developed what was referred to as a bland diet consisting mostly of yogurts nuts. Peanut butter and starches. A bland diet was the key to abstinence in his mind. Brought on by the lack of stimulation of taste buds. Patience. At battle creek were also encouraged to take part in various activities to aid in their recovery's in light therapy after noon marches around the premises to assist with digestion, and even regular animus, John lead the root of all evil in the body was bacterial toxins and his combination of a bland diet with rigorous exercise was meant to help clear all of that nastiness right out. While he ran battle creek John filed patents for several inventions. That would help those who stayed there including a radiant heat, bath massage tools and exercise equipment. He made numerous strides in medical devices under what he called physiotherapy. But there was something missing something from the other side of the equation. He done all he could for the patients physically. But now he needed to revolutionize diets. The idea had come to him in a dream one night. It was for a new kind of bread one that would be easier to chew at breakfast. When people had just woken up the following day. John walk down to the kitchen and mixed dough made of weeds, oats and corn. What came out wasn't very appetizing, and he left it there for a few days while attending to sanitarium business when he came back the mixture had hardened and John almost threw it out. But then he had another idea rather than waste all of that food. He rolled it out and baked it and what he ended up with were crispy little flakes John had stumbled onto something big here. So big it would go onto spawn an entire new category of food the breakfast cereal. It just so happened that John Harvey Kellogg had invented cornflakes. But the story doesn't end there. Just when Kelloggs cornflakes had hit the sanitariums breakfast tables down on his luck businessman sought out, Dr Kellogg to help cure, his chronic health problems this businessman, inspired by the doctors, delicious new breakfast cereal returned home with ambitions of his own while his first product, a cereal beverage called post them didn't do so. Well, his sophomore endeavor was a huge hit. It was called grape nuts named for the fruity aroma given off during the manufacturing process and its creator. CW post had inadvertently kicked off what would be known for decades as the cereal wars. I hope you've enjoyed today's guided tour of the cabinet of curiosities. Subscribe for free on podcasts or learn more about the show by visiting curiosities podcast dot com. The show was created by me, Erin, minke and partnership with how stuff works I make another award winning show called Lor which is a podcast book series and television show, and you can learn all about it over at the world of Lor dot com. And until next time stay curious.
From Call Centre Jobs To Million Dollar Businesses - In Conversation With Craig Campbell
"I don't know going into service. No Marie and this is another episode. Interesting episode of the Snow Molly so rare I am going to interview great camper and he'll introduces himself right now and welcome. Craig and this introduces chameleons. Thank you so she said my name's Keith Campbell. Who I am based in Scotland switches in the UK and apologies for the accident. Everyone about trying speak slung. Liberal understand actually saw yeah and avenue as you eighteen years in affiliate marketing Kelloggs. Cornflakes sees the OPPO UP. More Egion scenes Lou lives we saw apps in your readers are some videos and you were in. India I think in recent days yes always say and Banglore and December lovely. Please lovely people very welcoming on the efforts of everyone say Indian Zim and Webinars and and everything Gandhian people who seem to quite enjoy warm seen through them so as a federally enjoyed. Npr News people right. Did you learn something from India? The land something from and galleons one thing never drive a car and India adopt driving a car I was in. I was the cab going from airport to the hotel and I was like just Fox as we. We we too busy right lab senior. Talk with us as well. You're so funny and legged actually actually I. I saw you from the talk and then I found you on facebook and stuff like so i. I saw the talk radio of yours. Someone said on their facebook reflecting recipe. Or maybe someone that you have interviewed. I guessed home equity. Yeah so I know because of him I know you because of him and You're here for the same thing right. I mean issues. I've been our something like I will say rush same Russia the conference right. I mean what kind of Seo are you doing? I mean are you are hiring someone or doing yourself or you have an agency so after my own team of staff but we don't do client work. Most of the stuff we do is affiliate marketing and deviously had an agency but I absolutely heats dealing with clients so safety to make the move to Gwen to affiliate marketing. Because that we need to beg the client to pay me. Some money can make more money and the due to this report in and all this other Bill Shepherd comes with a quite more so I think it'll acu was ACO whether you do affiliate whether you do e Com whether you client what the same process untempted of right in. The website is the same bought stress. The state's lab was when you do client is a we up and you do your own affiliate and you can you take the off. Cello have long lie on Youtube. Relax but more and I think when you're relaxed more you perform better to the best of your ability in your cleared more creative and much more enthusiastic about the job beheads right and may I ask you how everything started the series or whatever you are doing so many many years ago around the eighteen years ago so I'm forty snow. I was the boat seventeen when enter nick in the UK. Marrano India may be slightly late. I don't know what the intellect Komotini Yuki Harry's is but young guys like you have probably been brought up with intimate until I got to seventeen at an even have a mobile phone pulled the intimate commute. And everyone's like wow that's amazing. Nfl everyone's played on the a mate talking to people. You'll ever really just came from a huge obsession y. The May is lake a new games console for a young chapel at Yogish snow. Usually and game console you. Want love game in evidence. Go to be and you're totally obsessed with it so I think you'll miss you the good stuff because the intimate our needs we are. I was just leaving school on. Hadn't had it before and doesn't really know what I wanted to do but I had a few shitty jobs. Don't Watson Venus Clap Job. Sales Jobs Oldest shed jobs. You could ever think of on the one D. Someone gave me the opportunity to play a boat with the website to issue wasn't a segment so they said this website joined clear worth Please with it. Stop to lamb Harry Masonry websites on this issue. Thanks stuff to commute on before a new and I was walking wholeness Afi Lonso. I ended up making enough money to leave the job. Could because everyone says you make me websites make new websites or Said's enough. I'm going to walk from sale. Started walking from home for a few years just building crappy place websites on the identity. Sadie to boat agency because as things go. It'll you need to content radar. You need someone to design some graphics because I'm really badly graphics and before you say about the need to Jesuit high of the guy hired another guy hired another guy and before a new had an agency and what the agency was relatively successful For obviously we've got the same problems that everyone else's go what the agency clients doping. You don't pay you enough money You know and these things are felt very stressful. So had a whole but at seventeen people walking for me and you will three clients. P Ma business was so at. That didn't like be not possession so you know what it's like even clients or on the P the failing team in the US all sorts of excuses on the Not For me Trish. This full SWAT THE AS C. To move into saving an affiliate marketing which is what I do. Try and stay away. A handful of clients still look after but they are very very whale hunt. Clients adopted the half that he'll to certain rules at stuff. What's so yeah? It's been a long journey. Yeah got to. We don't want to be also experienced similar similarly so like you but I want to know as you said you you were doing dancing so I would like to know which platform do you use. And how was your experience in there in so platforms at the? I used to use was paying the fee. Lonzo also used to just use things guncy. Local dietary is to be because remember when I was a fee Lonzo. It wasn't anywhere leaders. Compat- visit as no soul. Not everyone was aware of not everyone. Aco dumpty was probably the biggest place where used to. I'd say between dumpty getting a few jobs and what both was enough for me to make a good lesson didn't do anything to facing temps of advertising for. I thought it was nowhere. You're talking fifteen years or something to these mocked. It is different. You're going to have to do facebook. Catch you're going to have to do quote odds you're GONNA have to be on up work. People Perot All of these can a plot even five are five squads can sail gigs on all of these platforms so it's massively different from then has what you have to do. You basically have to be on every single one of those channels to money. How much you used to make all whitfield financing them at that one Guy Johnson probably between three and five thousand pounds. A month I was happy with that. It was never gonNa make me a male. You bought a alert me to to have a good salary. Y You have in the flexibility to what for thanked a cap. Not because the problem with being a freelancer as the beggar companies are not going to take you on. Because you're working in your bedroom or whatever so you'll never going to get the five thousand pounds of month customers. The big money retainers sold. I think Sampson's practice affect you. Probably go away limit to what you can in and without being Abegg agency if you like sometimes clients Lake the BEG agency and to be able to see lots of staff and an bag nasal office and whatever steady. Eleven so I I find it quite hard to scale above it between seen five thirty cents. Did you ever submitted a crappy job while you're doing relaxing? Yeah of course of course. Yeah I mean listen when were free. L'ancienne stole them in law. I wasn't as good as our content on sale today and of course submitting some bucs apart at fail good walk but when I look back did no. I'm like wow really late did someone pay me for this Looking at an old photograph of yourself you looking war man. I can't believe my here. We Are you know whatever you just look back go. Jeez it was so bad but I thought it was really good spot and hang say at was crazy shit. Yeah I know because because I have done the same thing as well so I know and again I will ask you or similar type of question. I'll what was your first website that you will fuss website. Our hand would probably be my own website. Many years ago at resort and it wasn't even on what place it infant on in cold. Mestre say what you used to buy from the shock and you out the desks and had the desk the desk an an attain plead website thing but it was obsolete shop and cook bed back. Then I thought I was a genius because I could make the takes screw along the top of the page and I thought Whoa You got cool. Whips a because of tapes was screwing along the page but looking back it was review bad walk and I used to use the last classified ads and that was super interesting point. I had made some worldwide websites and I was excited to but when you're first serious. Businesses started the first Dartmouth. Cd's stopped. So I probably Thank probably two thousand seven That's fifteen years ago. Cepeda Industry for about eighteen years. The first five years were just fucking obey a women and beauty blowing stuff up in Dune view. What a two thousand seven Started to take things about more serious and stopped trying to run a business and trying to be a lot more professional So yet Rigobert win in right. Did you have any struggle? I mean to start off. Lessen the whole thing is a struggle from the start. Everything was a struggle doesn't have money. doesn't have any clients at didn't have any staff you'll slow trying to drum up some business and I probably struggled for two years to to to Beg. Maceo in my reputation up to something And also I had no idea about the business say defense understand the COTON. It'll at really way anything it was just. It was quite a shut. Tamer. From Venus. That was always pill Pino appeal for an Italian Pino for an office. You know and not that much money so it was a slow and your Abbas. Young naive and didn't really understand is decided offs. Oh yeah there was a struggle and then obviously you start hiding people again. You're unexperienced hide and people. You hire people for all the wrong reasons whether it'd be talking gaming high. Their own die. Jahre whatever gained up over pain or you get someone who just doesn't want properly or you date someone who really doesn't fit you. Are we thinking? And so I made mistakes mistake after the stake after mistakes in terms of highland people With through tons and tons of staff but lesson you make mistakes and you've got to go through that motion to limb intimate the other state. Because I didn't go to any business school. I didn't have any mentor to to get me through this process So amid a lot of mistakes hide in the wrong people in doing a lot of their own stuff are also that tyke lights off into contracts so clients could leave whenever they want. It will play March. The process of my business and the whole business was a joke. If it's just a mess you don't if US few years everything was wrong and that was just because at the new any bit of so a but obviously you convert the other end stronger folder and you Belgium Business Fania pro your processes your systems hire people what you look for when you hire people and all of that stuff so I wouldn't change it but yeah everything was a struggle all right so I mean now talking about your Seo Company when and how This idea came up in your mind. I mean I'll was there any inspiration or something. I mean I is a C- OPPO agency and it wasn't really for me and I'm talking. I'm good at teaching and I'm good S. Your boat this protect your business model of Gorno. Disclose and what. I'm comfortable with so I don't do web design because I'm bloody lot set a established you. I Love Bacon. Money so affiliate mocked so we fold a hate during clients so that's really affiliate market modal Fatty DN adult. Make good on that you. I don't mean standard in on stage conference and so basically take it away. All of the pain points an avid all of the stuff that I'm comfortable during and rebranded rather than an agency of rebrand desma sale on as a see. I think you know there's enough business enough. Flights out there for everyone to beat himself or the dental market. Martin industry is a billion pound industry. And you can't be a little bit lazy. You can't do things your way as long as you survey results results stuff in business if you can make money. You're confident making money. Why would you do it for a client? When you make it for yourself go sell. Of course co-ceo some stand rushing and NFL mission. Gorge saved. Today was why the hill would you take a phasing dollars off a client to make him? You'll take those bucks a month when you could meet potatoes and bucks a month yourself. That's what you have to cap and a Sydney's you I think that comes with taking and expedience. If you genuinely believe that your good as you will in wide hail unique in other people money you'd be making it for yourself as a million opportunities to do it at well as core sees whether that's affiliate whereabouts e Comm. You'll do that. That's something that just with. All the states with clients at made me. Thank you have to do something? Definitely less is just not going to walk as it stands as you said I mean I out a little bit of research and I only only found your one website. That is dedicated to press your your company Your Business but Do you have any other businesses? Well that is running right now. Yeah so I've got a number of different businesses that are not related. But the are demeke meek money because of Seo Swivel and utilize Moscow's and to make an other are a business season you don't have to solely beaten ACU All those ammo Ian Means to waste money away any industry any Mitch. I've got had Amazon affiliate websites of gold leak genetization websites of GAUL ECOMMERCE websites. And so when I was in India same Russia and Banglore a gave a lot of case studies that we in affiliate marketing. Shouldn't people the different ways that you can make money and showed them a bunch of different options and I think it'll for me. Don't have all your eggs in one basket. Bought SOLELY RELY ON FORGIVEN. Come have other other businesses and has the job long-term as to take all the money from acu say defense and invest in real estate and these things like that. Well that's quite a lot and let's let's let's talk about your mistakes I mean. What mistakes did that You would advise others not to do cop. Three mistakes talk three mistakes. I mean one thing that I'm guilty of this mystique. Several retains is just even into a niche so for example three or four years ago the eastgate business stuff to become popular in the UK on a dive. Deaden and I thought done thunder keyword research and a scene that hundreds of thousands of people were researching for Easter. So I basically go away. State spent six months writing the fucker. Too Faint doubt the legally. You can't do P. Dodds for Isa give it because the government don't want you to Moten necking no payment provider other than peeved. How would accept payment for it on overdraw shepherds at the e cigarette industry a sharp at what they elected? So I didn't do enough research on the overall business model for a jumped ten and you have his acl. The failure of the business was because legally we couldn't do advertising to get the ball rolling and get some see was then the issue was coming in and secondly the famed how to take payments through anyone other than P so we were having problems being able to take payments because everyone wants to use people unfortunately the as the drop shipper fall. The platelet products was unreliable. So why would see mistake number one? Don't just research the keyboards research the business model and Phil because astringently letting care less whether it was an e cig or whether it was innocent savage just acting rightful that shit I'm gonNA make millions opponents so do your research and the business nj more speak to other guys who WanNa some business. Just ask them some of the pitfalls that you have to overcome and so that's mistake number one jumping enter mistake number. Two I would see would be not delegating and a lot of the what so my early stages of run agency. I wanted everything to be done or come through me so I was sailing. The Sandwich I was doing the voice in I was doing the issue. I had a team of content writers and I was. I was still putting all the content on the website because at that trust them enough to be able to log into the website and do the content Zeus as one of the common mistake that everyone yes do. You don't be selfish. Other people can do a good job. Depth approve this same. People are properly and delegate not share we are. I was doing everything and it became a very stateful we are. I wanted to have the hands on approach onto everything within the business. It'll didn't delegate INVOICING NEURO HE INVOICING PEOPLE. I hate that say the business and I was still doing it to. Why is doing it just because I was at a trust anyone and then what to delegate? Infant Schwab Bats mistake number two was not delegated enough not trust in people and three Thought Mistake I never never say a with no processes on any structure to your business. I think factored weighing the clock by a wasted so much team not having processes or structure to the business so I think having the right processes in place is going to help you scale up as a hell of a lot. Quaco cruel says you save the website to decline of the is. You'll get to decline. It'll the other guy. Does this say order and comes back tells everyone else what the need to do and they need you. You've got to have across. We are at half pro se season. No one really knew who is doing what and it was just a big mess source get your processes right. You're able to skew also save. Don't you don't always have the higher alochol person so I was always wanted to have an office with Taine fifteen people in it? No I've got no contact all over the words and I've got team of five people in the office and the rest of the what can be outsourced so I've got ending guys I've got Romanian. People Filipinos because the cost of Levin and DEA or Philippines or any of these other places as follows as an Yuki. No that doesn't mean the quality of what as any lace I mean. I know I know we can all see you walk from the Philippines or wherever sub standards the some really good people in all of these countries. And you can get done for a fraction of the place. Don't be driven by Eagle and hiding your own people. You cannot source again. Something I didn't really do very well at the start and I catch myself for doing that because I'm paying people who does a lot more scope people across the world's than there is in Mon doorstep people dumb an Law Casey on a not technical savvy especially in the UK. And I think a lot more people in countries like us who are a lot more technical savvy and a lot more hungry to do it and child jude five teams less so nobody know if that's just a couple of mistakes right now. Let's I'm in. That's very very helpful. But now let's talk about some of the business lesson to learn in all these years in if he Hostile off three lessons that you learned during this time but were did we business lessons hem. Probably Oh boy around the accountancy say the business again. Where sins are careful number? One careful who you're as some accountants tell you you can and can't do certain things will also tell you definitely story to the AC Awards Accountants Hotel Deafen Story of what can and cannot in terms of taxis and all of that stuff and very very careful. You're getting some one who because they can't believe law but does a lane in which you cannot cross if you break the law and most critical will take you up to that lane but the titans I've had in the past for very very cautious and I'm paying taxis and all of these things that we will have the peak because way me it's from a business point of view because I was naive and hooked up with the wrong of Titan. I wasn't able to claim things that was entitled to. I was paying way more tax than a should've the company just wasn't tax efficient names. Why would see to anyone? His understand high finance walks and Houghton see. What's in your country? We're all in different countries so I don't know what your tax laws are lake an India. But I'm going to assume that it's going to be placed similar to right. We've got all of our. But you have to get that safety. Your Business on point foster and foremost secondly in from a business point of view. you those always go to be things that other available such is Ed Miyake. We've thing where we can claim for research and Development. I lead India but we can fourteen percents of Tumble Devon by to his tax free from the government for research and development in Cleaton software automation processes the A. We absorb be aware of sexual Deal but not clear you. You have to dig deep into what's available for businesses and most governments. I'll be help. Small businesses like myself are mainly other small businesses are small businesses are the backbone of any country out there and that goes for India's where ninety percent of the population of India of the income and revenue is all brought through small businesses. The government ward to help you get probably entail a lot more help but you will ever believe but you just don't know where to look for that help so make sure that you do around speak to your local chamber of Komail. Government bodies fainted. What's view who fought in terms of things? One last thing with a business I would always see as always always always be careful on her. You partner weapon. Businesses will So many people it fingle from when the have partnerships and business no. I'm not going to see neff apartment up with anyone because a business partner. Maceo on being bumped by other business partners in the past safe routines we are again. I was naive. Didn't really understand a business. In general when he will have to other buses potholes was quite easy to force me. A business big suit against one. I just thought we were all in. It will three guys and business be took and basically full smear of a business on Megan Molly hails. So I think from a business point of view when you're setting up business meet sure the Iguana business partnerships with the rape people what the rate share Hogan never waste in fifty fifty. I've never have our goal less than fifty percent because you lose all control at that point a and I think to want to be in charge even days and if you can fold to go and business loan do it your sales. Because I'm lucky I've got a good business partner of high business partners. And who would simply argue for she hill of oxygen? We wouldn't you're you're never gonNA agree with that one. Mean you're never gonNA clean every last single point as much as we may be based rains or whatever you're always going to be and that always leads to kick conflict with a business because someone doesn't want for your date and it always ends up and Tom Royal so to give a thought. Do you really need the business partner? F F you dorn been. Don't get involved time though own stuff up even if it takes another few years to get through the in goal and not much business all right right now. How many works work I? Are you putting in Your Business Right now? Are you having fun or does it feel very stressing job? No is a see. I've got a team of people who do a lot of stuff for me. I only work four days a week and so I've always made it. You know after a one year old kids on I want to watch him grow up and so I have no doubt a business we are. You can outsource delegate stogies seaman and what done but just what smartly and be able to take more tame off so definitely not stressed definitely walk in a lot more in a smart and using automation using team members happened late processes in place which leads to you being able to cello about Mordon and be a little bit less journalists. What are what are your top sources of income right now top sources if I can come I mean I've got I've got. I've got a ton of definitely incomes. Commerce website brings in the most money. But I think you'll have two income streams from same rush of income streams Rome new video of a private affiliates withdrawal over reasonable combines. Probably all of my affiliate stuff combined probably does more than than my e commerce business but say yes so probably affiliate marketing sale in twos in and stuff like that probably does more than everything else so yeah we affiliate say okay so now the final question and it is an important one. What advice would you give someone who is just a starting or I'll one life advice is timid from you? What Leif Advice I mean I think one of advice I would say to. Someone is. Don't be scaled things go. Anyone can be anything they want to be. If you want to be the next new potato you can be the next new curtail. There's nothing stopping you. You've obviously got to believe it. I am but I think what holds a lot of people balked and my and my opinion as the lack ov- taking action in your people talk of your team. People can understand the issue. Do the actually Gordon to the actually good take a chance on a website. Do The invest in it properly and I think that that one thing is taken action as where people feel people skilled or they believe they can do or effort ever everything. I could be good as you. I could barely believe in sweat a computer awed when I was at school so an upbeat able to the reasonable size a reputation in the industry on your make some money on lane annual fat. Can anyone can. That's the same regardless of what you doing whether it's the issue of whether save being the base player for example you've got to watch out for it seeing lamb available and dude if bloody thing bull talk about it just a so take action is the one thing I would see anyone ever a goal and if you feel so walk up and that was That was super interesting. And thank you for joining Greek and I will put. His social media handles and though linked to his youtube channel in the description. If you guys want to check it out and thank you for joining me and because really nice thank you so much. No problem cheers thank you.
Cereal Wars - Cereal Offenders | 4
"I it's January nineteen fifty nine and executives at General Mills Headquarters in Minneapolis are gathering to hear from the man they hope will be able to jumpstart the company's cereal fortunes that man is the Dapper Gordon Johnson the account director from the Madison Avenue Advertising Agency D._F._S.. General Mills has been treading water for a decade. It's rapid growth in the thirties is now a distant memory. General Mills has an eighteen percent share of the market but it still behind post and has less than half of Kellogg's market share so just how how can the company move up from third place Johnson is confident. He has the answer cheerios tricks in cocoa puff so great products but they don't stand out look Kellogg's they got Tony The tiger and they sponsor Hannah Bog Peres huckleberry hound cartoon show what you got to understand is your customers. Aren't the parents sure they pick up the TAB but it's the kids who call the shots and they'll scream until their parents get the cereal they want and kids want the cereals with characters they love so we got to create those characters general general mills achieve his arms and just how do you plan to do that. Johnson is ready for that question. There's this animation studio in Hollywood and they've got some great characters that I think in rival anything Hanna Barbera does take a look at this pilot real the lights dim Johnson turns on the projected his friend supersonic rocket gainsborough bow on the screen the executives see a flying squirrel in an aviator helmet and his scatter brained loose companion running away from out of control fireworks. They're just the kind of Wacky duo kids go for the executive smile but the AD chief isn't so yet this will be expensive. I hear Kellogg's pays fifty thousand dollars episode for Huckleberry. Hound Johnson flashes smile. That's the best part the animator is Jay Ward. He's a bit of an oddball but he's broke so we got a very good price from his producers eighty five hundred dollars per half hour episode the Ad Chiefs Jaw Drops. Are you serious. That's the cost of a ninety second T._v.. Commercial and they really deliver on that budget absolutely they'll be working with an animation studio in Mexico that charges much less than any here in the states and like I said wards desperate the executives are thrilled. It seems like a perfect solution. A kid show with entertaining characters at our rock bottom price. The execs may think they're getting a great deal with Jay Ward but they're about to discover that this high strung animators got a subversive streak that will put him and general mills at loggerheads shipping and mailing from your desk has never been simpler than with Sunpro online from Pitney bowes with central online from Pitney bowes is just click sand and save for his lowest four ninety nine. That's four dollars ninety nine cents a month sent envelopes flats and packages right from I'm your desk and you are back to business in no time and for being a business wars listener you'll receive a free thirty day trial to get started and a free ten pounds scale to ensure that you never overpay starting at four ninety nine per month. You can also qualify for special U._S._P._S. rates for letters and priority mail shipping calculate exact postage online in print posters right there from your P._C.. Save Time and money on mailing and shipping with semi pro online go to P._B.. Dot Com Slash B._W._i.. You to access this special offer for a free thirty day trial plus a free ten pounds scale to get started. That's P._B.. Dot Com Slash V._W.. Experience Shipping made simple with a free trial of sent pro online from Pitney Bowes from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business <music> on the last episode post kept ahead of General Mills by drenching it cereals in sugar. Meanwhile Kellogg's got an assist from Tony The tiger to cement its dominance of the market Kellogg's cartoon Tiger made clear that when it comes to cereal kids are now in the driver's seat and parents merely their chauffeur's so now general mills is looking to create its own army of animated characters to take take on Tony and his pals starting with a cheeky squirrel in a dimwitted Moose. This is episode for cereal offenders. It's April nineteen fifty-nine nine and animator. Jay Ward is sitting in the bar of the elegant Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood with his business partner Bill Scott the Pudgy pair are waiting to meet Gordon Johnson from General Mills Ad Agency D._F._S.. But Johnson's late really late to kill time ward is lobbying jelly beans up into the air and trying to catch them in his mouth he flips green wind up above his head and lunges sideways to catch it and misses the Jelly Bean bounces off his spectacles and lands in his glass of Cola Darn. He's about to make another attempt when Scott elbows him in the ribs. Johnson is heading toward their table. Sorry sorry for the weight. I can't believe how long it takes to get a limousine at the airport. Scott raises an eyebrow. A cab might have been quicker. Johnson gives Scott looked at says. I don't take cabs despite the Awkward Awkward Start Ward and Scott are teen to hear what Johnson's got to say they know General Mills has purchase rocky and Bull Winco but they're short on the details. Johnson fills them in so hot off the presses is general mills has used its leverage as big advertiser to get A._B._C. to take the show ward and Scott Smile. Their cartoons going to be a network TV. There's a catch A._B._C.. Needs the show. Joe On air this fall okay. We're does the Matt Twenty six five minute episodes in six months. It's tight but each episode's five minutes so Johnson Butts in new the deals for twenty six half hour episodes but but our budget is only eighty five hundred dollars an episode. That's why the Mexicans are helping you out also so we need scripts in advance to make sure the show suitable for kids word looks distressed but but rocky bogue Lincoln aren't just for Kids Really General Mills bought a kids ads cartoon figure it out anyhow I have to get to my next meeting Nice meeting you both as Johnson leaves ward turns to Scott. I'm not making it just for kids. I don't care what general mill says as word and Scott scrambled to meet their deadline back in Manhattan. D._F._S. is about to crack another cartoon challenge. It's a Monday morning in May nineteen fifty nine and D._F._S.. Illustrator Joe Harris arrives for work in a buoyant mood for weeks. The agency's creatives have been trying to develop an animated character for general mills fruity puffed cereal tricks. Now Harris thinks he's got the solution so he heads straight to the office of Creative Director Chet Stover sketchbook in hand. Hey boss. I think I've got just what tricks needs. Harris opens his sketchbook to reveal a miserable looking rabbit Abbott with floppy ears. Stover is puzzled depressed rabbit no well yeah. This is the tricks rabbit you see. He hates carrots and loves tricks but every time he gets his paws on a box of kid takes exit away and tells him he's a silly rabbit. You know like Wiley Coyote. He never gets what he wants. Stover starting to like this bunny an so what's the line that'll sell the serial tricks are for kids a few months on slater. The tricks rabbit makes his debut. I have a problem I'm a rabbit and rabbits supposed to love carrots but what I love is tricks. I got enough for breakfast and lunch and supper and even after school. If I went to school really rabid tricks kids. That silly rabbit changes everything for tricks now after years a years of lackluster sales children can't get enough of the fruity rainbow colored corn puffs. Meanwhile back in Hollywood. Jay Ward is cranking out episodes of rocky and his friends on a shoestring budget in a tight deadline but the scripts he's delivering are making general mills executives nervous. They were expecting a simple kids show but instead wards given them a bunch of goofy characters designed designed entertain kids and grown-ups. Thanks to their quick wit and slide jabs at Authority figures soon ward in general mills are squabbling over the scripts. Eventually they strike a compromise ward agrees not ought to make fun of any army generals and key figures from American history but most of his lighthearted sometimes snarky satire survives and in November nineteen fifty nine general mills latest animated cereal cheerleaders rocky and bull winco burst onto the nation's screens and now here's the greater figure ooh cocoa box energy. Eh Chocolate you you you'll get the ideal rocky and his friends ends is a ratings hit and gives general mills powerful platform to promote it cereals but the company's troubles with ward aren't over yet. It's early nineteen sixty and Gordon Johnson is sitting in D._F._S.'s Madison Avenue Office reading the latest rocky and bull winkle scripts and he is not happy the characters next adventure is called the box top robbery it lampoons the way general mills and other cereal makers entice entice kids to eat more of their products by offering cheap toys in exchange for cereal box tops wards not only biting the hand that feeds him. He's mocking General Mills Promotional Strategy Johnson is steamed. He picks up the phone calls ward. What the hell are you thinking? You'll making fun of the people paying the bills but word refuses to budge and to Johnson surprise is General Mills approves the story in April nineteen sixty the box top robbery airs well as we all know no real basis for our world economy is not gold now nuts over how many thought solid everlasting rock rip security box top hits another rating smash moving general mills another inch closer her to overtaking post and then one of the company's vice presidents hits on an idea that will put even more pressure on post. It's nineteen sixty two and John on Halloween is in the kitchen of his Minneapolis home and he's feeling experimental. He's eating some brock's marshmallows. When a wild idea POPs into his head he drops a handful of the Pale Orange peanut-shaped peanut-shaped marshmallows on his kitchen table grabs a pair of scissors and starts cutting them into pieces fills a bowl with cheerios and pours milk over them then he sprinkles the marshmallow pieces on top in the moment he tries his first spoonful? He knows he's onto something but putting marshmallows in cereal boxes isn't an option the moisture in the marshmallows would reduce the serial shelf lives so Cahan puts general mills food scientists on the case they mix gelatin corn syrup sugar and colorings together to create a glue p substance that they pushed through molds to form shapes. They still need to figure out how to eliminate the moisture. The solution comes from NASA. That's right the space folks. NASA has been making food for its astronauts using a process called freeze drying which removes moisture while keeping the food intact in one thousand nine hundred sixty three with help from this space age process general mills delivers an unlikely cereal called lucky charms and it's animated mascot lucky. The LEPRECHAUN stars homers magic post also sees potential and freeze drying and they're looking to use it to try and deliver a knockout blow to the biggest selling cereal of all Kelloggs cornflakes post knows adults have been adding fresh fruit to their morning flakes for years so why not say them the hassle by putting freeze dried fruit inside cornflake boxes. This is the incredible freeze drying process. Let you give your family real fruit white inside a box of cereal. Everybody's rather have cereal with without just don't get it often enough so posted vetted cornflakes and strawberries blueberries and features Syria with fruit every time a better breakfast. The cornflakes war is all alarmed at posts new attack Kellogg's executives gathering the conference room of its headquarters in Battle Creek to plan a counter strike the head of marketing assesses the threat we've interviewed consumers and they loved the idea of cornflakes cornflakes with fruit. Despite the higher price they'd be willing to switch from our cornflakes two posts just for the fruit. This is a threat to our whole business kelloggs cornflakes might seem basic but in nineteen sixty three they account for twelve L. percent of all cereal sales Kellogg ships five million boxes of the stuff every day. It's the bedrock of the company's empire and that's why these executives will try anything to torpedo posts. The fruity flakes even unappetizing things Kellogg's food chief suggests they fight fruit with fruit will create a fruit and flake cereal of our own bananas are the most popular fruit let's put freeze dried slices of banana in cornflakes the executives perk up that could work but they're so focused on outflanking post they don't consider the taste factor but customers do when and Kelloggs cornflakes with instant bananas makes its debut in nineteen sixty five cereal munchers discovered that the tasty fruit slices promised on the box or closer to banana flavored driftwood within a year their products off the market but posts fruit and flake cereals aren't doing much better despite strong early sales people soon tire picking gooey freeze dried strawberries from their teeth and go back to standard-issue flakes the misfire leaves posts nursing a multi-million dollar loss on its investment and freeze drying technology and then post compounds. It's mistake retailers and consumers have been complaining about oversized sized cereal packaging so post introduces smaller boxes that contain the same amount of cereal as their competitors but when shoppers see posts shrunken boxes next to general mills and Kellogg's supersized packaging. They assume they're getting being less cereal for their money by the time post inflates. It's boxes again. The damage is done. The packaging disaster costs post four percent of the market allowing general neural mills to pull ahead to become the country's second biggest cereal maker now at long last general mills is ready to take on market leader Kellogg's but just as has general mills gears up to go hunting Tony The tiger the public pitches the entire industry occur ball cereal company profits have been on a sugar high for two decades but they're about to suffer her sugar crash. Business wars is brought to you by chase so you're ready to buy your first home congrats now. This is one area of your personal life. We can feel like you. I need a lot more business acumen negotiation skills than you have relax at chase they get it and chases closing guarantee gives you the edge. You need to stand out as a chase customer. You're guaranteed to close quickly or you get one thousand dollars so you can show homeowners. You're serious about buying without the personal letter or gift basket or Sky Riding it over their house getting your first home even faster with chase learn more at chase dot COM com slash V._W.. Chase make more of what's yours all home. Lending products are subject to credit in property approval rates program terms and conditions are subject to change without notice not all products available in all states or for all amounts other restrictions limitations apply home lending products offered by J.. P. Morgan Chase Bank in a an equal housing lender business wars is brought to you by Indochino. 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At checkout this is an incredible deal fifty percent off the regular price for a made-to-measure premium suit plus shipping is free. That's Indochino Dot Com Promo Code V._W.. For any premium suit for just three hundred sixty nine dollars is plus free shipping. It's July nineteen seventy seventy and on Capitol Hill a forty five year old with Elvis sideburns his testifying before a Senate committee. He's Robert showed up the civil engineer turn nutrition advocate and he intends to bring this serial giants chance to their needs Tony. The tiger is gird great big fraud wheaties is the breakfast of chumps not champions. I've studied the top sixty breakfast cereals Yeltsin. Two thirds are almost devoid of any nutritional merit Shoda pulls a list from his pocket and starts naming. Some of the serial offenders kelloggs cornflakes general. Oh Mills Kicks quaker Oats Cap'n crunch posts great nuts next he plays senators a compilation of cereal commercials packed with Lovable Cartoon Characters Napa happy down. You gotTa have practical the clock not well. You need new Kellogg Jack for breakfast. Suga cringe sugar the Chris Sugar Cream chocolate after the montage Chou to resumes his attack as you can see our children are being programmed to demand sugar. Most Americans are nutritional illiterates and that makes them an easy mark for those eager to conceal the nutritional worth of their products. We need nutritional labelling on cereals until today few people at ever heard of showed up but now he's all over the news his attack on the breakfasts. It's a millions divide the nation to some. He's a crusader for their health fighting the war against empty calories to others. He's a meddlesome snob but either way he's got the serial. Business is on the defensive a few weeks later Kellogg's sends Harvard Nutrition Professor Dr Frederick Stare to Washington as the senators listen the bespectacled academic tears into photo. Troja is a civil engineer not a nutritionist he ignores the calories and protein in breakfast cereals. He also ignores how ninety five percent of cereal is consumed with milk but pointing out the flaws in showed US analysis does little to stop the growing number of Americans who are now questioning. What's in their breakfast bowl among them are the hippies in California who are now turning to Granola in the belief that it's a healthy natural alternative to mainstream cereals? It's been eighty years since Dr. John Harvey Kellogg created Granola in his sanitarium since then his ground wheat bread cereal had been forgotten by all except a few seventh day adventists who kept on crunching the rock solid crumbs through the generations but in nineteen sixty four Nashville Baker Layton Gentry Change James the recipe he replaced with rolled oats and added brown sugar sesame seeds and shredded coconut. The result was crumbly cereal that didn't threaten to break teeth gentry sold the rights to entrepreneurial seventh seventh day adventists who started producing his granola justice health food stores began popping up all over the golden state by the time showed his confronting the serial giants the new GRANOLA has become a cult hit with the flower or power crowd but Granola won't be staying underground for long. It's summer nineteen seventy-one and former General Mills Marketing Executive Jim Matson is is in downtown Saint Louis. He just moved here to join food manufacturer pet inc.. He's exploring his new home city when he spots something surprising a health food store. He didn't think they existed outside California thinking it might be a sign that the hippie food fat is going mainstream. He goes inside. Perhaps he'll spot a new product idea ahead of trend as the fragrance smell of incense. It's fills his nostrils Matson scans the shelves sea salt no rice flour to obscure we germ forget it but then he sees the cellophane bags of Granola on the serial shelf now that he thinks has got potential over the next year he and pets new products team prepared Granola for glory to give it mass appeal they make their Granola chunky and they also ditch the seeds in order to stand out in stores full of primary colored cereal boxes. They put their Granola in a C._p._A.. Box locks that looks like it came right out of nineteenth century general store to reinforce its rustic image they name it heartland natural cereal when it hits supermarket shelves in Fall Nineteen. seventy-two heartland is touted as an all natural breakfast within six months heartland captures more than two percent of the six hundred fifty million dollar U._S. cereal market it also sparks a breakfast revolution by December. All the big cereal makers are making Granola in practically no time these seemingly healthier cereals have swallowed up ten percent of the market but just like their sugar loaded kids these GRANOLA munching adults are being bamboozled. 'CAUSE IT turns out GRANOLA contains almost as much sugar as the candied flakes in their kids breakfast bowls but the public demand for more nutritious breakfast is only getting started as the nineteen eighties approach the hunger for good for you cereal only increases and that's going to play right right into general mills hands on the next episode cereal goes to the movies Kellogg's in general mills wrestle for the dollars of health conscious consumers and the supermarkets declare war on the serial giants from wondering this is business wars. We hope you enjoyed this episode and we invite you to subscribe on Apple podcasts. Google podcasts podcasts spotify stitcher IHEART radio. Wherever you get your podcasts go find a link on the episode notes you can tap or swipe over the cover art and you'll find some offers from our sponsors? We hope you'll support our show by supporting them. If you like what you've heard tele friend and tell them how to subscribe while you're at it and we would love it if you could give us a five star rating there's another way you can support business wars and that's by answering short survey at one dot com slash survey while you're there. Don't forget to tell us what business were stories. You'd like to hear quick note about the conversations. You've been hearing in this episode. We can't know exactly what was said but the dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host. David Brown tristen Donovan wrote this story Karen. Low is our senior producer in editor.
Sweet Sorrow: Kelloggs Says Ciao to Keebler, Famous Amos
"This episode of business wars daily is brought to you by zero to show a brand new podcast from octa. Every successful entrepreneur follows a different path. Learn how to forge your own by listening two zero two zero wherever you get your podcasts. From wondering, I'm David Brown and this business wars daily on this Wednesday. April tenth brace yourself. This episode could make you hungry for the next. Couple of minutes will be talking chocolate. But cookie business has become one big chess game last week Italian company Ferreiro announced it's buying Keebler and famous Amos cookies from Kellogg. Yes. The Keebler elves are legally any way moving to Italy Ferraro is spending one point three billion dollars to spirit the elves across the pond famous Amos and Kellogg unit that bake some girl scout cookies, we'll go with them Forero known for its new Tele hazelnut spread is quickly becoming one of America's sweetest sweets companies. This is the fourth American cookie or candy brand. It's eaten up since twenty seventeen. Ferreiro bought Nestle's candy division little over a year ago. Those Keebler elves will be joining baby Ruth butterfinger. And many other delicious American trifles. So what's going on Kellogg admits that it was starving? Those poor elves and Amos of resources it was pouring its efforts and money into treats that have sweeter returns on investment from pop tarts to Pringles Kellogg. I started shopping the brands in November it's been trying to figure out how to spur Americans lagging appetites for snacks from big old brand names. In fact, it's been a rough patch for most consumer packaged goods companies. According to NPR, young shoppers, simply aren't brand loyal the way baby boomers were for Kellogg. That means the Keebler name no longer pools. It's weight as American shoppers are increasingly avoiding processed foods Kellogg in its competitors. Are pulling their hair out at least sixteen consumer packaged goods CEO's had left their jobs between twenty sixteen and twenty eighteen the Wall Street Journal reported presumably. They were failing at or exhausted from trying to kick start growth, but if it were just the shift toward healthier food that was hurting cookie sales. Why would Herero be sweetening? It's own desert portfolio apparently will still indulge plenty, especially if the quality is high for railroad specializes in improving tired brands in February and relaunched Nestle's one hundred year old butterfinger candy Barr with more chocolate and no hydrogenated oils. So Ferreiro sees a huge opportunity in our collective sweet tooth as does delay international. Jones. The Oreo Mondays spending more than two billion dollars to buy those yummy. Danish butter cookies dance or rather maker the Kelsen group from Campbell Soup. Campbell's is another legacy food brand that's been struggling to reshuffle. Its portfolio Monday is also buying Australian cookie maker or. Or should we be calling them biscuits? So cookies are not being flattened by celery and carrots, there's still a lot of money to be made in indulgences, but selling them is harder than it's ever been. Which is why cookie chess his getting so aggressive? From wondering this is business wars daily. Hey before you run off to that mid morning snack. Take a second Llosa five star rating on your favorite podcast app for us. That'd be a better gift of box chocolates bags. I'm David Brown. We'll see you tomorrow. Businessworld daily is brought to you by zero to PO a brand new podcast from octa a lot of startup stories. Just focus on the big wins. But being an entrepreneur's heart. And it can be lonely. If all you ever hear about his others, crushing it in zero to PO, you'll hear about the different stages of business growth, and the blood, sweat, and tears. It took for some of the world's most successful entrepreneurs to get to where they are today. People like the Mark Andriessen, and Ben Horowitz, and Netflix is Patty mcchord zero IPO is hosted by Frederick Carris co-founder of octa and Joshua Davis, contributing editor at wired the conversations they have are candid and the learnings are invaluable. You can listen to zero to wherever you get your podcasts.
Burger King launches plant-based Impossible Whoppers, Kelloggs sells its cookies for $1.3B, and Googles Gmail turns 15
"The. This is Chris and this is snacks daily. It's Tuesday, April second, and this is the best next daily. We've ever whipped. I'd say so we have three amazing stories, plus yards rose yester- pretty good, the US and China both reported great manufacturing data. Always like that markets serve it up nicely. Now. Our first story today Dulles these three stores, actually, they're so good. We did like triple check that these weren't. There's no way. These all. Actually, I'm still nervous. One of these fakes afraid it's going to get called out to story was Kellogg's it selling off its cookie business for one point three billion dollars. We know you're thinking, yes. This could affect girl scout cookies very well. Could second story is g mail. It. Just turned fifteen years old having birthing and celebration, Google is announcing a bunch of new updates to Jima. But it's learning G is earning third and final stories burger incredible. It is going to start selling this week eat free plant based impossible Walker. This is like a like a bar mitzvah for the. Animal free meats beef list beef now before we jump into all that we've got just big news for our college listeners out there if what is it it's March April, so they're sending out the emails now to get a summer, internship and the career departments like you should have something guess what we have found the maybe most perfect summer internship. It's transatlantic partnership between NASA and the European Space Agency. They're looking for a volunteer who is willing to lay in bed for sixty days and do Nuff. Here's the best part. You will be doing that over the summer while your friends are working, and you will earn more money twenty thousand dollars offering this one volunteer. They're trying to study weightlessness. I think the other key here is that if you do have a job, maybe considered quitting this job. The third key is that it's actually run by. The Germans bays agency running this experiment pretty intent. And you're gonna ask the driven. Can I have access to my Netflix account, the sixty days pretty easy answer from them nine. You can ask if you can maybe take a break get some food nine Hugh, not happening. All right guys before we jump into our. Ax daily few keywords. Daily. Hamre food to sit candy. They don't reflect the views her family. Just so that. Any securities is not a research report or investment advice or sale. All pro or sale of security. Business. Financial LLC member slash. PC for our first story Kellogg's just sold off its cookie business for one point three billion dollars to new tell owner Ferrara, which is based in Italy. It's big now, you know, what I think about Callum you've totally million times kind of evil side hustle. It draws up these cartoon characters slaps on cereal boxes and then sell sugared walked down aisle three and you're going to see a bunch of really big eyed cartoons like snap, crackle and pop. It's like Nickelodeon on I'll relating it's really freaky. Now what actually happened with Kellogg's yesterday is that this was the end of what was like a battle over the final piece of cake at the dinner table. So here's the Kellogg announced last year that it wanted to sell these unwanted cookie brands and to potential bidders emerged from the grocery store. I is for our which owns Natella which ended up buying the other is hostess brands, the owner of twinkies. Now, there are few key brands here we gotta talk about that or affect that. First girl scout cookies, talking Samoa's those cookies are. Actually baked in Keebler factories true. And that distribution deal might change second Keebler itself. Arno who knows what these elves are going to do. No one is any idea. I'll think they can have suitable skills ready. They comply somewhere else. They look like they're from Vermont in a good way. We love their flannel game of great flannel other than that though. There's not much the doing, okay, then famous Amos is another pecan tree company a throwback. That's a part of this deal. And then finally another thing that stunted my growth as a child. So Tra fruit snacks on my God. Now last year get this all those brands that we just mentioned brought in nine hundred million dollars in sales, and that is particularly sad for Kellogg because bought Keebler just Keebler just that one in two thousand one for four point four billion dollars. And now it selling Keebler, plus a bunch of other things for a fraction of let that sink in investment. This story is all about really one specific neglected candies. So true furrow is an Italian business, but basically acts like a. A private equity firm. Here's what it does. It goes out shops around. Yes searches for like neglected candy brands that nobody else wants and by for really cheap. Now, it just did this the other day it bought Nestle's US candy business for another one billion dollars. And guess what? It took butter fingers Lassic, and baby roots, which are part of that portfolio. It improved them like reinvigorated these candy bars new campaign called the quote, unquote, better butterfinger. Yeah. So it gave the butter fingers larger peanuts. No hydrogenated oils fake oil, and it also cut back on costs. And now it's probably worth more than what it bought it for nicely done for our for our second story. Geologist turn fifteen happy birthday Kingston air that is fifteen. There we go. Now, the celebration that Google just put on reveals just how powerful this thing is again real announcement, even those April Fool's day true. So to celebrate the fifteen year birthday it announced a whole bunch of expansions of its artificial intelligence. Which g mail is called smart compose, pretty soon g mail is going to be doing this podcast can predict the message that you want is end before you even realize it. And now smart compose speaks four new languages after yesterday. And it's getting better figuring out your style better than ever. Yeah. It's actually starting to sound exactly. Like freakishly like four dry density, really pretty much says my emails are the best the CEO of Google actually announced a Mazda yesterday. He said that smart compose already saves people from typing over a billion characters per week. That's like a huge number. But I have no idea if that's impressed. We can't tell anything over billions of big number. Now, the other key here is that there's going to be a new feature called basically right now send late. Yeah. And if anybody knows what boomerang is true, this is boomerang, sourced boomerang. So I feel bad for that company. Right in Email tonight and scheduled to go out tomorrow morning at seven. That you can schedule a whole bunch of emails out at random time. So it looks like it working twenty four seven incredible feature g mail might be the most under monetize asset ever think about this genial has one point five billion active users every day. Wow. Now, it would be one of the five largest social networks. If we were ranking it among the other social networks and Google plus nattered or existed in the amount of mindshare. In other words, the amount of time that human beings minds are like using it service is gigantic coordinate everything in their lives, and it's all free. You just have to tolerate like one at at the top of your promotions dab, basically, Google's infiltrated every part of your life. But doing it as a public good. So Jack, what's the takeaway for buddies over at Google and their powerful g g mail Google's secret weapon advantage over Amazon, both Amazon and Google. They see what you search yet. You search for a lot of things Amazon and Google, but Google sees the intimacy. Of your Email. Yeah. Amazon's alexa. It only knows like the questions. You ask it on a Saturday morning before you're going out. What's the weather? Hey, alexa. What's happening at his with Google on the other hand, it's easier entire twenty four Email back and forth. Email chain about your Yosemite plans. It knows who you're connecting with what you're driving out there. What directions you're taking Google people? You're staying in that goes machines are reading your emails, and it's learning about you. Alexa is a stranger Google home knows you for our third and final story. I love this one Jack Burger King is launching a vegan burger with impossible foods, and they're calling it the impossible Walker. Very nicely seen the light. I've had impossible births. You have two lists. You look great. Thank you. You've been working out. Eating burgers, tastes, kind of like mushrooms in a good way. And there's a reason why I we gotta define what an impossible foods burger actually burger that is not made a beef plant based crew founded in two thousand eleven. Most invented it was invented in two thousand seven by Stanford professor who wants to make us less reliant on beef. Because beef is beef is big guys beef. Yeah. Let's let's have the talk as we need to talk about beef. It is horrible for the environments the bovine in the room beef has giant carbon footprint, and his very high energy resource intensive takes a long time to name each count. So this is trying to get rid of our beef consumption. But give us something that tastes like the second key about impossible foods is what is actually in a plant based impossible food burger. Okay. We saw video on the company's website. You'd throw a bunch of ingredients into a ball. But the base is we eat and potato protein. Very nice X factor. As love burger. It's something called hime, which extreme please, which is an extract from soybean route. And it looks like red blood to be on makes thing bleed. And basically looked like and then the third and final question, you're probably asking how much is this thing gonna cost me at burger and impossible Walker costs a buck more than a normal oppor has the same amount of protein ninety percent less cholesterol. And it requires ninety nine percent less water to like bring to your little warning for vegan friends though, it will come with mayo at Burger King. So you're gonna have to get on the side. Yeah. Hold them out now, Jack, and I were listening to this. And we thought you know, what we've to dive in snack style we did. And we thought this was a really perfect example of distribution as marketing impossible burger was very niche tough to find that stuff you years ago kicked off and you can only find it like David Chang fancy restaurant in the west village. It started expanding with the partnership white castle which three hundred eighty white castle. Had impossible burger thrown on like thirty white castle, sliders at a competitor beyond me, which makes something similar had a partnership with Carl's junior. So that's a thousand more stores in America have these things, but this distribution opportunity with Burger King is going to start which is fifty nine locations in Saint Louis, and if it successful, here's the big thing. Seventy three hundred Burger King locations that if the impossible Walker is accessible to that many Americans than it's mainstream. And this is when the marketing angle comes in because if you see an impossible food at Burger King, then you may go and buy it at a grocery store where it's widely available. It'd be huge for the alternative industry. So Jack, what's the takeaway for buddies over at Burger King impossible foods? This whole thing is all about the reduce -tarian trend Americans are reducing their meat intake big time, but they're not eliminating. That's right. Meatless Monday is very popular and the number of Americans who are just reducing the amount of meet the is growing faster than the number of Americans who are becoming. -tarian Taco Bell. Just two months ago said it was introducing a vegan menu. That's right. Taco Bell in Burger King. Both introducing vegan let that sink in the world is change. It is really big. And this moves big for the whole industry. Now, if you're wondering are at these are private companies, like impossible foods or beyond meets, how can you get involved beyond me is actually the one that's getting closer to territory. So eventually shares will be public and it'll be excessive because it's part of the reduce -tarian trend. Jack up the takeaways for Keebler coke is just got sold. And we learned marketing can save dime brands. We kind of feel bad. I don't know actually work cited for Keebler elves second. Yeah, they ever Magas second g mail. It's the giant data set of personal data, and it's also Google advantage over Amazon happy fifteenth birthday Gina now. Please subscribe us from those like Lincoln endorsement emails the impossible. Walker is a real thing. Finally, all about the reduce -tarian trae if you're reduce it -tarian, please tweet at us. We are to now time for snack fact of the day, Jack. What are we got ready for this legal Obama's memoir becoming which I started great one? It's on track to become the best selling memoir ever. You has won a number. We should lift that number here. Ten million copies have been sold since November. Unreal fast. We'd love that. Now. A couple other awesome stories recovering in the Robin Hood snacks newsletter. Okay. World wrestling entertainment to WWE. Its stock is down after a brutal segment on John Oliver TV show on HBO about the deteriorating health. It's wrestle. And then we got Saudi Aramco the Saudi Arabian oil company. They released information on their financials turns out, it's the most profitable company in the world by far dick ever, we loved having you on the snacks daily podcast with us. Can't wait catch up tomorrow. We'll talk tomorrow. The Robin Hood snacks podcast. You just heard reflects the opinions of only the host who are associated persons of robinhood, financial LLC and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets Inc or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates. The podcast is for informational purposes, only and is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer sale of security. The podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision. Robinhood, financial LLC, member FINRA SIPC.
Why Would the Creator of Graham Crackers Be Horrified by Them Today?
"This episode of brain stuff is brought to you by electrify america across country network of electric vehicle charging stations here to help electric vehicle. Owners feel free freedom of around their neighborhood. With charging stations near the places that matter and free to hit the road quickly by enabling access to ultra fast charging find out what's new electrify america dot com that's electrify america dot com electrify america. Hello freedom will come to brainstorm a production of iheartradio harebrained steph. Lauren vogel bomb. Let's face it. One of the best things about making a campfire is making s'mores. The quintessentially american treat consisting of a toasted gooey marshmallow and a square of melted chocolate pressed between two crisp graham crackers. But have you ever wondered where graham crackers came from or where they got their name. The original graham cracker was a health food developed in the eighteen thirties. From the teachings of an american food reformer and religious teacher named sylvester. Graham who by all accounts would be appalled by what's called a graham cracker today which is typically made with refined flour high fructose corn syrup ended up dab of honey for marketing purposes instead graham's original cracker called for just wheat and gram flour a form of whole wheat flour made by grinding the endo sperm winter wheat into a fine powder and mixing it with the brand and wheat jerem it has of course texture and nutty flavor the resulting cracker contained no sugar fat and often had to be softened by soaking or boiling before eating. We spoke with new york-based food historian. Sarah weisberg johnson. She said it's funny. That of all the things that he talks about with his health reform. That's the one thing that gets widely adopted and has his name. Graham flour gets adopted by people who may not even be aware of him even towards the end of the nineteenth century and persists into some of the twentieth century. You hear about graham gems and gram bread. Cookbooks up to the nineteen forties and fifties graham. Who was not a doctor. Although he sometimes went by dr graham was horrified by the over processing and enriching of wheat flour and believed that the loss of fiber and other nutrients and white flour ruined consumer health in eighteen. Thirty seven graham published a pamphlet entitled a treatise on bread and bread making in the intro. He wrote thousands in civic. Life will for years and perhaps as long as they live. Eat the most miserable trash. The kim be imagined in the form of bread. He was basically advocating for whole-wheat homemade bread and was thus hailed by the philosopher. Poet ralph waldo emerson. As the profit of brand bread. Graham was a proponent and follower of vegetarianism founding. The american vegetarian society eighteen fifty. He also believed limiting exposure to most spices refined sugar and all processed foods a presbyterian minister. Graham was a member of the temperance movement abstaining not only from alcohol but even from using yeast and baking johnson explained. I think that's by graham. Crackers became a thing because they were unleavened they didn't have brewer's yeast in them. The temperance movement was a big part of a certain kinds of protestantism. But the really hardcore temperance people like graham believed you couldn't use yeast because yeast produces alcohol in addition to writing about food graham also gave lectures on diet reform that are difficult to separate from his religious philosophy because he himself did not grams. Views on diet were linked not only physical but also to moral and spiritual health. He promoted daily bathing tooth brushing eating regular meals a day getting outside drinking only the cleanest water and exercising all great stuff by today's standards. He also believed that illness came from immorality including indulging in any form of lust or sexual contact for any reason other than procreation and even that any more often than necessary many of graham's recommendations for healthy living a cold bath sleeping on hard mattresses standing from all meat sugar spicy foods refined foods and even warm foods were meant to help you avoid over-stimulation and thus protect you from sinful temptation. And johnson points out that these practices were also similar to those of the self-disciplinary ascetic monks of the medieval period which were partially in response to the plague. She explained many of graham's health reform that happened in the nineteenth century come out of a series of cholera and typhoid epidemics. That's where the water comes in. And the emphasis on the health and sanitation of avoiding the excesses of life. That people thought might be a factor in disease at the time technological change and new urbanism brought about changes in society that not everyone. Viewed positively graham was rightly concerned about food purity and the dangers in commercial food production as populations shifted from farms to cities but his religious convictions tempered the lasting influence of this man who was a forerunner of the american health food movement. Johnson said he believed. There's less peer pressure to behave correctly. If you move to the city where you're not known to everyone. A lot of his ideas are about control. And how you create order in a time of change chaos. He stripped a lot of the joy out of life beating sex sleeping and baths which is why his actual teachings are not adopted. A part of it is the temperance part of it is the self denial who wants to sleep on a board. If you don't have to who wants to take a cold bath if you don't have to but graham flour especially if you're using freshly ground whole wheat is delicious. It's really good and does have a lot more flavor than white flour. I can see why that would be the thing that persists but at the time he had thousands of followers referred to his grandma is american author. Louisa may alcott family kept a gram table where meat tobacco and coffee were banned. Graham greatly influenced other health reformers who are also religious leaders of the day including ellen. White and adherent of seventh day adventists and dr john kellogg nother seventh day. Adventist who along with his brother will invented granola of cornflakes the foundation of the kelloggs brand. And who also would have been horrified by what we modern with his creations. Today's episode was written by patty rassmussen and produced by tyler clang for more in this month of other. Granular topics visit has two forks dot. Com brain. stuff is production of iheartradio or more podcasts. My heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Food Neighbourhoods 146: Manchester, Ancoats
"Hello and welcome to food neighborhoods some monocle twenty four. I am marcus shape d._p. All the cds various the local so love for the food entering offering and in this series we get to know these places this week we had to ankh oats in manchester an example of a neighborhood that three vitali station us being helped in no small part by foods monocle said charlie feel mcchord sakes takes on a culinary tour of an area undergoing significant change manchester is a city with industry at its heart put up to the industrial revolution. The skyline is punctuated with red brick warehouses mills dating back to the era that put it on the map. These industries may be long gone but beautiful victorian architecture remains and there's no part of the city but this is more apparent than in coach following the decline of industry. This area had a reputation station as a place to stay clear up. Crime was rife and it's imposing nineteenth century structures were falling into disrepair whilst a student in manchester. I can remember one nightclub providing buses in the hope of persuading people to venture to this unfashionable part of town for night-out can years since the monsters property market has boomed and being conveniently nestled on the northeastern lisa the city and coach has become a very desirable place to live the industrial buildings have now been regenerated and new apartment blocks shot up making it a hub for young nationals creatives natives and a whole host of innovative food and drink businesses to start danine coach on the right foot. There's probably no better place than paula bakery that initially operated royal it gained such co following that there saturday morning sales would have queue snaking around the block now any permanent site new union street. You don't need to brave the elements to try that famous veena laws reason loaves starting savory that twenty our signature sour is a firm favourite is baked almost until burnt lead the outside crisp and crunchy was the inside remains area and light. If your sweet tooth needs satisfying then be sure it's crowded as you may have been able to decipher from the name this is on the road and baked into a muffin to stem filled with the flavored pastry cream cut from the late eighteen hundreds and coach which was known as much as this little italy following the arrival of factory workers from last year and companion therefore very fitting the one of the restaurants helped transform the area. I'm one of the neighborhoods most i loved is a pizzeria rudy's colton streets of traditional neapolitan pizza completely fueled the latter mozzarella from naples and some zano tomatoes from mount vesuvius. It's an extremely popular with locals and doesn't take bookings but there's no need to panic broth in queue outside in the rain. They would just at you to a virtual queue <music> now. If you wondering how it's past the time most waiting seven brothers be houses just a stone's throw away and subs range of cross days from the super bass brewery. My recommendation would be the throw a._i._p. Made from upcycle kelloggs cornflakes something slightly more mancunian. It's ellena call from bill's main street three named after the first mentioned the banks in the year twelve twelve the focus here is on sourcing ingredients as locally as possible this includes everything from local cheeses to summon within walking distance the restroom however for true delicacy try the manchester the city's variation of a scott check the version consists of a run in the middle coils up tim him very black pudding sausage meat emberg crumbs all of which then deep fried now an illustration of the strength of the anchors foods in that you don't even need to leave this tiny streets find another general minor is relatively new addition to the city and is headed up by by simon marta previously a chef at noma his sixteen course tasting menu folks ingredients sourced from around the u. K. through in just one hour forty five minutes. It has is proved extremely popular with the critic so much so that it's been tipped to bring much. There's first michigan star in over forty years after eating is probably time for nightcap and we're better than the j now yeah on st kitts adored by the locals for its minimalist decor relaxed atmosphere most importantly cocktails. The breakfast is particularly wonderful. Concoction of roy campari continuous an ingredient more found on toast mom late unfortunately for those ones continue. They're not even further the warehouse that used to be home to the areas. He's world renowned. Nightclub is now a co working space state of affairs. Almost any neighborhood gentrification can probably relate to but let's be honest after reading so much danzig was never going to be an upturn anywhere for monaco. I'm charlie phil mccord's. These is being episode zone number one hundred and forty six food neighborhoods thanks to jolly for today set tour around ankles in manchester for more food and drink stories tune into the menu every friday at nineteen hundred london toy marcos hippie. Thanks for listening and by four now.
Cereal Wars - Trix of the Trade | 5
"<music> it's a Monday morning in the summer of Nineteen eighty-three and in Battle Creek Michigan Kellogg's top executives are sitting around a long conference table eating rice krispies. They're doing a taste test comparing. The quality of Rice krispies produced by the company's various factories since William Lamothe became C._E._o.. Four years ago these taste test breakfasts have become a weekly weekly ritual but today he is also here to give these exacts a reality check. General Mills has been grabbing market share with a serial based on the video game sensation pacman now the competition is preparing to flood the supermarkets circuits with cereals based on Popular Movies Toys T._v. shows and video games up against E.. Donkey Kong and Mr T. Tony. The Tiger seems like yesterday's hero look. There's no denying the appeal these tie in cereals so I wanted to make a cereal based on a popular character to the executives exchange worried looks Kellogg's is a conservative company. It prefers to stick with what it knows and it's never put other people's characters on cereal boxes before but in this case the moths willing to break with tradition within limits. We need a character with a wholesome image. Not I want some trendy video game. It's got to be a name with staying power that will I'll still be in demand five years from now. One of the younger executives offers a suggestion. My Kids Love that New Star Wars movie returned the Djeddai. How about a character from that? You Know Maybe C. Three P._O.. Lamothe the most stares blankly at his colleague like he's speaking a foreign language C. Three Watt C. Three P._o.. He's a robot in the star wars movies. My kids think he's hilarious. He's real family friendly. He never hurts anyone in spring nineteen eighty-four Kellogg's C. Three P._o.. Cereal arrives in a blaze of publicity now. It's here the excitement the adventure of use force at breakfast. We'll call them news C. E.. O.'S CEREAL KELLOGG'S WE but Kellogg's is late to the licensing party by the time of C.. Three PEOs launch the shelves are bursting with licensed cereal. These cereals do sell well but the licensing deals eat into profits so Kellogg's focuses on a much bigger and more lucrative trend grownups seeking healthy options in the serial aisles and in summer nineteen eighty four just months after introducing its intergalactic cereal Kellogg's hits on a plan that will win over adults by rekindling cereals original bowel loosening mission home business wars is brought to you by chase so you're ready to buy your first home but the market for your dream home is insanely competitive edge face vague. It chases closing guarantee I._T.. Gives you the edge. You need to stand out as a chase customer. You're guaranteed to close quickly or you get one thousand dollars so you can show homeowners. You're serious about buying without the personal letter or gift basket or Sky Riding it over over their house getting your first home even faster with chase learn more at chase dot com slash V._W.. Chase make more of what's yours all home. Lending products are subject to credit and property approval rates program terms terms and conditions are subject to change without notice. Not all products were available in all states or for all amounts of the restrictions and limitations apply home lending products offered by J. P. Morgan Chase bag in an equal housing lender from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business wars on the last episode General Mills Banked on marshmallows in cartoon characters to push past post in second place. Now General Mills has set its sights on Kellogg's but Kellogg's is about to strike back. It's clocking how the nation's eighty million baby boomers. Are Slowly but surely paying more and more attention to their health. They're watching their cholesterol. Cutting back on the CIGS buying Jane Fonda keep fit videos and leg warmers and swapping beef chicken and Kellogg's catalogs smells opportunity in the trend and opportunity to win dollars by returning to cereals roots and promising people healthier breakfast. This is episode five tricks of the trade. It's June nineteen eighty-four and in Battle Creek. There's an awkward silence in the Kellogg's Conference Room. The companies ad agencies just presented an idea for an all brand campaign. That's left Kellogg's executives lost for words Executive Vice President Horst Schroeder breaks the silence cancer. You want to promote our cereal by talking about cancer are you insane Schroeder's Tall German who came to battle creek a year ago after proving himself a high flier while running Kellogg's operations nations in Europe he glares through his thin rimmed glasses at the agency's bearded creative director. The admin tries explaining yes. I know it's bold bold bold. Is that what you call it. The the Adleman knows it's a tough sell in one thousand nine hundred four cancer is a word people avoid saying out loud so using cancer to promote cereal as downright shocking but he also knows all brand needs a radical campaign. It's sales are stuck in a downward spiral and the cereals bowel cleansing image isn't helping. I know this sounds risky but but just listen people don't eat brand cereals because they taste good. They eat eat it because they think it's good for them. But general claims of all brand being healthy aren't enough to overcome the taste challenge. We need to make a specific health claim for the serial Schroeder arisen sure where this is going but he's willing to hear the man out the National Cancer Institute says a High Fiber Diet can reduce the risk of cancer and all brands the highest five or cereal on the market turns out the National Cancer Institute what is keen to be involved in this fiber campaign even though it won't actually endorse all brand the institute just wants to get its health advice out there however it can Schroeder's signals the ad man to keep keep going. We'll put the National Cancer Institute's phone number in the ads so people can get more information about diet and cancer and while we won't directly say all brand reduces cancer risk people will connect the dots shoulders face breaks into a big toothy smile. Now that's smart on October Seventh Nineteen eighty-four the all brand maximum fiber ads appear on television in one of the ads a tastefully dressed thirty. Something woman is shown in close up confiding in viewers about her new discovery at our tenth anniversary last week. Maybe think about things like cereal sound silly silly but I just read about new reports from the National Cancer Institute. Some studies suggest a high fiber low fat diet may reduce the risk of some kinds of cancer so we made some changes like eating this Kelloggs all bran maximum fiber Kelloggs Kelloggs all bran the campaigns impact is huge thousands of people call the National Cancer Institute hotline sales of all brand jumped thirty percent pushing Kellogg's market share back towards the forty percents mark however response is not all positive some doctors slam Kellogg's for preying on People's fears the U._S. Food and Drug Administration warns that by implying that all brand can help reduce cancer risk the ads are blurring the regulatory divide between medicine and food posts chairman accuses Kellogg's of Eroding Trust in advertising but with all brand selling fast rival cereal makers soon can stop criticizing and start copying in July nineteen eighty-five General Mills tries to muscle in on the brand action with fiber won. A new serial backed with copycat ads if you're like most people. You probably think you're getting enough fiber in your diet know what you're probably not. In fact the National Cancer Institute says we're probably getting only half the fiber we meet so I'm getting the half I missing with this fiber live a one serial one but while general mills is playing catch up on the brand front Kellogg's is already working on its next health minded option. It's late nineteen eighty-five and back at Kellogg's Battle Creek Headquarters Schroeder's pitching a serial inspired by his childhood in West Germany. I want to bring Muesli to America. It's very popular in Europe and has a history as old as cornflakes. I believe Muesli can be successful. In America to Kellogg's marketing director shakes his head Mueslis a no go. We tried that back in Gosh. When was that Kellogg C._E._O.? William Lamothe fills in the blank mid seventies thank you it didn't work work because the role dotes in Muesli aren't bait so it's too mushy. Americans like crush Schroeder locks eyes with the marketing director so will reinvent Muesli Americanize it. The marketing director turns to both but no one eats Muesli in America right boss but Lhamo doesn't agree with his marketing exotic. Actually I think horst is onto something. I'm approving the project over the next two years Schroeder battles layer after layer of internal opposition he pushes Kellogg's food developers to make a Muesli out of toasted whole grain flakes instead of rolled oats he he also strong arms. The Marketing Department is spending thirty million dollars on the cereals launch. Finally in November nineteen eighty-seven Schroeder's Americanized Muesli goes on sale breakfast words it was meant to be it would be centuries old balance of fruits grains and the breakfast Europeans called museum. Now music comes to America as Kellogg's music turns out Lamothe was right toback Schroeder newslink's catches the health food wave and becomes a hundred million dollar product Lamothe responds by promoting Schroeder to president making the German executive next in line to A. B. C. E. O. while Kellogg's is on a roll general mills contender in the brand war fiber one is trailing behind all brand but then in April nineteen eighty eight a new study showing that eating out brand can can reduce cholesterol hits the news the finding sparks and oats frenzy people start shunning wheat and corn cereals in favor of O._D.. Alternatives and this is great news for General Mills for decades. It's been using OAT based serial to distinguish itself from Kellogg's and posts more corn wheat based offerings now that decisions paying off sales of Cheerios sore fans of Kellogg's Raisin Bran Defect to General Mills oatmeal Raisin Crisp by Nineteen eighty-nine General Mills is gaining ground fast. It's market share climbs to twenty seven percent in less than a year while Kellogg shared airdrops below forty percent for the first time since the all brand campaign and general mills is about to turn up the heat. It's May nineteen eighty-nine and in Chicago thousands thousands of food industry movers and shakers file into the vast McCormick Place Convention Center. They're here for the food. Marketing Institute show an annual Expo where more than one thousand food companies are showing off their latest products this this year oat bran is everywhere. Exhibitors are touting Oat Bran Pretzels. There are huge displays of Oat bran tortilla chips people roaming the floor handing out brand doughnuts one companies even selling shakers for sprinkling goat Brown on stake like salt and general mills is wowing the crowd with benefit a new flake cereal made from oat Bran and silly him a supermarket buyer checks out benefits blue and white like boxing calls over at General Mills representative. Excuse me what's silly him selling him as a grain from India that has eight times more fiber than Oat bran research shows that eating benefit as part of a low fat diet can reduce cholesterol nine. Percent Compared with cornflakes the buyer raises an eyebrow ever since the all brand campaign implied health claims about cereals have become the norm but with benefit general mills is going further. It's claiming its new cereal. Cereal is proven to cut cholesterol. It sounds more like a pharmaceutical than breakfast. Come on how much of that is really down to benefit the general mills representative smiles actually actually two thirds of the reduced cholesterol was directly related to benefit the buyer is impressed but for Kellogg's President Schroeder benefit is anything but good news Schroeder's under immense pressure stock Kellogg's out driven sales dive the last thing he needs is General Mills Turning Sy- Liam Cereal into a cholesterol cutting sensation and accelerating Kellogg's decline so he orders his team to get silly cereal onto the market a s a p. It's August nine hundred eighty nine and Schroders at a news conference in New York City ready to unveil Kellogg's Sy- Liam Counterattack Counterattack heartwise. He's got forty million dollar marketing campaign behind it. He stands before the press pack looking confident today we announced Kellogg's heartwise natural multi grain cereal according to medical research diet low in fat in high in fiber can help lower cholesterol heartwise can be part of such a diet but the reporters are in a combative mood food general mills claims about benefit have sparked questions about why food companies can make wild health claims based on shaky research while drug companies need extensive evidence to make similar claims so when Schroeder takes questions the reporters pouts. What are the studies that support your claim is seldom even save billions a laxative? Why are you putting it in cereal? Shouldn't you face the same tests as drug companies before making these claims Fuming Schroeder turned his back on the reporters forcing C._E._O.. William Lamothe to face the onslaught Lamothe handles the questions more deftly but the reporters leave unconvinced by his reassurances about the health claims behind heartwise it wise two weeks later Kellogg's gets more bad news. It's official General Mills Cheerios has replaced Kellogg's frosted flakes as the nation's best selling cereal lamothe loath fires Schroeder by December nineteen eighty-nine Kellogg's is in crisis. It might still be the biggest cereal maker but it's market share is tanking and for the first time in eighty years a rival five. Oh companies cereal is the top seller Kellogg's thirty seven year run of record breaking profits is over and to make matters worse. General Mills has pulled benefit from the market leaving kellogs to face the political storm over serial health claims alone the good ship Kellogg's is sinking and Lamothe Scott to make repairs fast. We live in a demanding time with endless requests for our time and attention coming out of twenty four seven. It's no wonder you get overwhelmed when you're faced with even the smallest of tasks let alone something as important as hiring for your business but there's one place you can go. Were hiring is simple fast and smart that places ziprecruiter dot com slash V._W.. 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Ah It's early January nineteen ninety and in South Brunswick New Jersey but thirtysomething mom is pushing a shopping cart down the serial of the Grand Union supermarket she reaches for the familiar violent box of Kellogg's Raisin Bran and stops on the shell right next to the Kellogg cereal are boxes of Grand Union in Raisin Bran and assign reading compare and save she checks the price of the supermarket brand a dollar ninety nine hole dollar cheaper than Kellogg's when she reaches the checkout counter. There's a box of Grand Union Raisin Bran Card and she's become the latest convert to private label cereal. These copycats have been chip chip chipping away at the sales of the big name cereals for years together. They own five percent of the six billion dollar cereal market. It's enough to give Kellogg sixty three year old C._E._o.. William Lamothe palpitations it's January nineteenth nineteen ninety Lamothe's hosting a board meeting at Kellogg's Battle Creek headquarters topping the agenda is his plan to get the company back on its feet after the beating took from general mills and Cheerios the year before Lamothe is ready to retaliate we start by refocusing on our biggest sellers so that means fewer new products and more aggressive marketing to shore up sales of core brands like frosted flakes. He also takes aim at private label store brand cereals. These are as big a challenge to us as General Mills. They are targeting us because many of our best selling cereals have descriptive names like Raisin Bran and cornflakes that they can copy because we're telling them what's in the box. It's less less of a problem for general mills because serials like Cheerios have brand names. The private labels cannot use lamothe stops his tirade just long enough to take a sip of water so here's what we'll do. Since price is the main appeal the private label cereal will only raise prices in line with inflation. We will also spend more money on in store promotions and coupons. The board is all for it. They love the idea of squeezing the copycats. The cats and undercutting general mills within months Kellogg's is filling newspapers and mailboxes across America with discount coupons customers can redeem when they buy Kellogg's cereals General Mills is forced to follow suit to stop Kellogg's getting the price advantage. The company redirects tens of millions of marketing dollars from T._V.. Commercials to discount coupons sparking a coupon arms race with Kellogg's coupons offering shoppers a dollar or more off store prices become commonplace soon more than forty percent of all breakfast cereal in America is being purchased with coupons but as the use of coupons spirals out of Control General Mills starts having second thoughts it's spring nineteen ninety four and in general mills headquarters in Golden Valley Minnesota President Steve Sanger's thumbing through data on the company's cereal coupons a broad shouldered executive of the greying Moustache Sanger's astounded by the figures general mills is distributing two billion cereal coupons a year on average each coupon used save shoppers fifty. He sent for processing them cost the company seventy five cents multiplied by the forty million coupons used. That's thirty million dollars off the bottom line every year sanger slumps into his chair there surely there's a better way to win the price war a week later. He meets with a serial divisions senior team. I've looked at the numbers coupons appear to be a really inefficient way to lower prices. Che's we should scale back on coupons and just cut prices when executive warns it could backfire people like clipping coupons and they drive sales. We've been steadily gaining market share. Why risk that by giving Kellogg's the coupon upon advantage sanger considers the warning before responding sure it's a risk but consumers are making cereal choices based on what coupons are in that week's newspaper coupons are totally eroding brand loyalty and that's an even bigger risk a few weeks later general mills cuts back on coupons and reduces cereal prices by around ten percent to stay competitive Kellogg's cuts prices too soon Kellogg's general mills and post are locked in a vicious price war? It's a slug fest that bloodies them all but none of them are willing to concede the fight so they keep on slashing slashing prices but General Mills isn't relying on price alone to beat its rivals to keep the private label manufacturers at Bay General Mills begins enhancing around a third of its cereals every year it turns tricks corn balls into fruity shapes and adds Blue Moon marshmallows to lucky charms. The constant changes mean the copycats have a hard time keeping up and spend even more time imitating Kellogg's products General Mills puts local athletes on limited edition wheaties boxes boosting sales by turning them into collector's items and to ensure its ads are reaching the right viewers it moves it's kids cereal advertising away from network ATV and onto cable cartoon channels and since honey nut cheerios is hugely popular general mills launches more spinoff serials like multi grain cheerios and honey frosted wheaties by nineteen ninety-seven things are going so well. The General Mills called a halt to the price war it started and that leaves Kellogg's executives with a tough decision to make Kellogg's Kellogg's lead over General Mills is now razor thin so Kellogg's chief Financial Officer Leans on the company's C._E._o.. Arnold Langbo to follow General Mills and Jack Up Prices The the price wars seriously hurt our profits. Let's use this opportunity to raise prices and boost our bottom line. No if we keep our prices low for another year we can maximize the price advantage general mills has given us but low prices are no longer enough to stop General Mills Terminator like advance and Store Label cereals are still eroding sales of Kellogg's brands in early nineteen ninety nine general mills is neck and neck with Kellogg's is in market share and by year's end general mills finally overtakes Kellogg's gets taken general mills more than sixty years but it has at long last toppled the mighty Kellogg's but Kellogg's isn't waiting for general mills to do a victory lap. Oh No it's making battle plans on the next episode. Kellogg company fights back freeze dried fruit route makes a comeback and cereal sales. Go sought from wondering this is business wars. 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61: Kellogg v. Kellogg
"This episode is brought to you by mastercard michigan called battle creek and until the late eighteen hundreds. It wasn't known for much. There were two rivers in the middle of town. One of them was more like a creek. It was home to many seventh day adventists and in eighteen ninety s. There were also two brothers living there. The older of the two by eight years. John harvey kellogg one of the most famous physicians in the country. If not the world howard marquel has written a book about the kelloggs called the battling brothers of battle creek. That would be will and john harvey john. Harvey was golden child. He everything he did was great. Went away to new york to medical school to the bellevue hospital medical college. So he was the exciting man that everybody loved and admired but his little brother will. He was shy and insecure. Everyone in his family thought he was dumb. He needed glasses and didn't know that till he was twenty years old price sitting in the back he couldn't see the where and he was called an imbecile dimwit. His father didn't want to send him to school after the age of ten. Because there's no point if you ever brother or sister than you've probably experienced a little sibling. Rivalry tom that star wars comic book episode one. It's mine but for john harvey and will. It was different from a young age. John harvey basically wage psychological warfare on his brother. He tattled every time. We'll stepped out of line. He beat him up. He verbally abused him. They fought for so long and did so much damage to one another and those leave scars. Of course you've heard of the kellogg's one of these brothers has name spelled out in bright red cursive. In grocery stores around the world on boxes of rice krispies mini wheats and cornflakes from business insider. This is brought to you by brand cuban brand now stories. You don't. I'm charlie herman. Mcdonald's will john harvey kellogg made each other's lives miserable. They bullied each other as adults. They stole from each other as business partners and his corporate rivals. Their disagreements escalated all the way to the michigan state supreme court but the kellogg's were also were brilliant. Team john harvey's medical theories helped improve. The health of americans will was an ingenious businessman who created a whole new standard for marketing and branding. Together the kellogg brothers changed the way we eat breakfast. But which kellogg is the one we remember today. Stay with us in the early eighteen ninety s. The kellogg brothers worked together at a health retreat in battle creek culture sanitarium. It was john harvey's brainchild by that point. He was an accomplished doctor who toured around the country and written dozens of articles and books and performed many operations. He had to be the major dumb of his sanitarium. Again howard marquel. He's meticulously research and reconstructed john harvey and will kellogg's lives using old letters scrapbooks legal depositions interviews and other john harvey had to be charge. He was the conductor of the dam and To a lot of his employees he was quite difficult especially you displeased him to his guests to his patients. You will most wonderful men on. Her patients came to the sanitarium from all over the country. Dr john harvey kellogg ran special exercise classes. They would've sounded like this and move them eight or ten inches down and up at each count that he begin. One hundred who jazzercise anyone bill. The patients individual he went into the dining room and had dinner with people. Who are eating the kellogg way to do at every meal. Dr kellogg or someone. He appointed made sure guests chewed everybody food at least forty times before swallowing to help countdown. The time they sang the song you can hear it recreated in the road to well ville a semi historical comedy about the sanitarium a lot of the people who came to the battle creek. Sanitarium had bad stomachs or ulcers. Are that great american disease. Constipation and indigestion dispe pepsico and if you think of what. Americans eight that daniel lot heavily fried and fatty foods. You know very heavy foods. There is no light diet. No kale salads. No kale no roughage dr. john. Harvey kellogg was america's general in its war against constipation. He his troops bland meals with nuts foods and dense whole grains. He encouraged them to make big lifestyle changes and he also had theory is something called auto intoxication. I love this. That food products beat products. Particular would stay in your gut fester and pollute your body and give off poisons toxins that would make you feel bloated and constipated depressed stupid. All sorts of blamed everything on flesh-eating flesh eating and smoking alcohol caffeine none of which were loud john harvey sanitarium. Oh and one other thing very much against. But he called a solitary vice of masturbation. We don't give that medical vice anymore. I can assure you. But at the time. John harvey's ideas were not considered fringe or bizarre. They were groundbreaking. His research on diet was nominated for nobel prize in medicine or physiology. People were just obsessed with constipation. A good bob movement was the most important thing in american life. Nobody talks about that. But i can assure you having spent seven or eight years reading about this stuff was really on the minds of a lot of people. At the time even presidents of the united states. John harvey kellogg treated william. How taft warren g harding calvin coolidge. Fdr and on and on and on who came to battle creek for free. of course. thomas. Edison henry ford used to come milia air. Art booker t. Washington eleanor roosevelt. The comedian eddie cantor. They stayed on the sanitarium sprawling state of the art campus. They could roam the rolling hills visit zoo and attend lectures and performances. It had three different gymnasia. It had massages of every kind under the sun sun and water bass and an enema room. Or you could get all kinds of animals. It had all kinds of examination rooms operating rooms laboratories and patient john harvey took full credit for the sanitarium and its success. He did not run it alone. In fact without the help of his younger brother will john. harvey probably would've run it into the ground. He hired him as a twenty year. Old to really be what we'd call today the cto the operating officer of this vast sanitarium. Which had you know thousands of rooms and bedsheets and maids orderlies and the seuss's and cooks of what have you will kellogg managed all of that staff and on top of that he helped launched the sanitarium spin off businesses like a publishing company a clothing line and eventually breakfast foods and despite the fact he was incredibly good at what he did. He was constantly being derided undercut by john. Harvey kellogg who was grandiose and great to everyone else but took it all out on his little brother. This was not a wholesome case. Two brothers keeping it in the family and going into business together now. This was one incredibly powerful man taking advantage of the fact that his little brother was desperate and out of a job. for years john. Harvey wouldn't allow will to have his own office at the sanitarium he had will follow him around the notepads so he could jot down every one of his genius ideas and that meant when john harvey wrote his bike around the sanitarium campus will would have to run alongside to keep up with them. Even when john harvey paused for one of his five daily bowel movements he would make will come into the bathroom with him to take notes as he dictated so he would miss a single golden thought. And that really. I think explains relationship to it and we'll was quiet but he hated he hated. Most weeks will work seven days a week at the sanitarium logging hundreds of hours away from his family and when he asked for a day off even on christmas his big brother would call him lazy. I mean he would say really harsh mean things to him to work seven days a week and be told you're lazy. Why do you think john was so cruel to him. Because he could and there was a mean streak in john where he liked to dominate people and he was very good like a lot of bullies of knowing who's he considered to be weak or at least somebody he could. Bali successfully will had five kids and a mortgage to worry about so he kept working for his brother. And even though john harvey would never admit it wills. involvement was crucial to the success of the sanitarium. Dr kellogg may have been the charmer the draw for the rich and famous but it was will who made sure that the sanitarium could pay its bills beginning in the eighteen ninety s. The brothers tried to make a cereal grain product that was easily digest today. We all know what cereal is. You might have eaten a bowl this morning. But in eighteen nineties with john harvey and will we're trying to create a brand new thing pre cooked ready to eat safe breakfast cereals did not exist at. I will was not convinced john. Harvey's latest obsession was a good use of his time. Brother was asking him to spend hours crouched under a hand crank. Roller catching flattened. Dough and chiseling off. tiny flakes john. Harvey had this idea that if you baked grain at an extremely high heat it's complex sugars and starches with breaking down and make an easier to digest firstly worked on wheat cereals and they foiled in big they broke it up into little tiny crumbs and that was popular but it took a long time before they figure out how flake cereal the story of how the kellogg's came up with wheat. Flakes is different depending on who you believe john harvey said the recipe was revealed to him in a dream. His wife said she helped him come up with it and will insistent. It was a partnership between him and john. Whatever did happen someone. They left some dough overnight. It got a little sil- and bakers will call that tampering dough. The water content of the doe evens out. And then you bake it. At a high heat you can break it up into flakes as opposed to crumbs. That was a eureka moment. It was the invention of flake. Cereal debuted their creation and the sanitariums dining room and guests lined up. For seconds and thirds the eight flakes with milk cream and yogurt and by all accounts. Dr kellogg's we flakes made their bowel movements like clockwork. And who doesn't like to be regular doctor. Kellogg may have been a medical prodigy but he was bad at branding. He called the first ever breakfast. Cereal grandma's which like some of his other names were foods he created granola nuthouse. Proce did not sound particularly exciting or delicious. It didn't matter people love. The cereal will set up a makeshift factory at the sanitarium and started selling the flakes. In ten ounce packs for fifteen cents each in its first year production. The brothers sold over one hundred thirteen thousand pounds of cereal both at the sanitarium and through mail order in the creation of the wheat flakes in the cereal that's being sold at the sanitarium in the history of food. How if a deal is this. It was a huge deal because all of a sudden you could have an instant breakfast poured on a box. Pour milk on eat it. Even dad could make breakfast used. That lied so many times with it. Always gets a laugh if you think of what a housewife had to do to make breakfast and eighteen ninety s. She had to start the woodstove. She made oatmeal which were whole grain. Oats you had to cook death for an hour more to barra leaguer or rice. That took time if you fry it up. Things like sausages or bacon Or potatoes raw us early morning. This took time and suddenly you freed up a couple hours with a cheap nutritious and tasty breakfast at first will working on the wheat flakes dough because his brother told him to but the notes not left behind show that he became as invested in perfecting wheat flakes. As his brother he kept track of every batch affleck see produced and paid attention to which variables humidity length of baking time temperature produced the crispus. Cereal he obsessed over the machinery and help come up with a special roller that flatten the dough to the perfect thickness and consistency in eighteen. Ninety-five will's brother filed a patent for the flake cereal and the method of preparing it. But there was only one name on the application john. Harvey kellogg healed the patent. But does that mean. He was the inventor of it. Yeah well he would say. Of course he would and that will was as secretary just took orders and he was just a lackey. It was his idea was his thought process. You know cetera et cetera. John harvey knew he had a big discovery on his hands but to wills great frustration. John harvey wasn't that interested in turning wheat flakes into a big commercial enterprise. He cared more about its health benefits than the massive amounts of money will thought they were leaving on the table. Doctors that time had to be very careful of putting their names on products or advertising them if they wanted to be accepted by the high class elite. Not the quacks but the people at johns hopkins are harvard. People the ama or the american college of surgeons and despite john's wackier views he wanted dearly to be accepted by the medical profession the established medical profession and he Did not want to be ostracized. So if you advertise products you'd get in a lot of trouble back by the late. Eighteen nineties the kellogg's makeshift factory at the sanitarium was too small to keep up with orders. For dr john. Harvey kellogg famous grants will had to rent out a two story building downtown but the brothers had another problem on their hands. One of their kitchen assistance had stolen their recipe and was selling a brand new serial right under their noses in battle creek. That man was charlie or cw host. And as far as will could tell john harvey didn't plan to do anything about it. That's after the break. Local businesses are so much more than the goods they sell. That's my mastercard is offering them tools they may need to thrive online like digital doors an online curriculum that gives local businesses the resources and guidance to enhance their presence in the digital economy. So they can start their digital journey with the support. They need to succeed online and keep impacting their communities. Visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors to learn more together. Let's start something priceless. We're back. When john harvey kellogg invented wheat flakes in innovation. Ready to eat cold breakfast. Cereal it change the world because breakfast is you know very important meal in the day and it changed the way we start our day collectively and our customers weren't the only ones to take note. In the years. After john harvey received his patent for wheat flakes people started showing up and checking out battle creek for any possible business ventures by nineteen o five one hundred and one new cereal companies have been established in the city and the one posing the biggest threat to will and john harvey's business was charlie post. The man who founded hosts cereals. The eighteen nineties charly post was a broken down thirty six year old businessman and he came to battle creek to try to heal a bad stomach. Couldn't even afford to stay at. The sanatorium is too expensive so he stayed at one of the boarding houses. He actually worked in the kitchen to try to pay his way and there. He learned several of the recipes. Host ripped off a few of john harvey and wills creations before we ever got to their flaked cereal but the one that really got the brothers attention was a cereal called nuts. it was basically the same as one that the kellogg's had created but was some sweetener added. Something john harvey would never have done all told by. Nineteen hundred. Host was making around three million dollars a year over ninety million dollars. In today's money we went. Nuts will hate it you. We're giving away money. These are our products. We ought to make our own in mass advertise. He knew this in the early nineteen hundreds they had many battles over. This and john said you know. I can't advertise. And wilson will allow advertise will use my name. But no we can't do any held them back and so Kelloggs cornflakes or the santa's cornflakes that were made out of the sanitarium or selling hundreds of thousands of boxes a year while cw post right down. The road was selling millions and millions of vices year. Well john harvey took the high road insisting he didn't care what posted as long as a series. Were helping improve. People's digestion will on the other hand could not let it go will hate it post and post once called. We'll logging dirty dog and we'll kellogg said well. You know what dirty dogs do post. I don't know if he actually said that or he had would write that lie. But it's pretty good now. He and they both hated each other. The imagine inventing it or cohen vetting and sing another guy steal it and make millions of dollars. Aw that's not a good feeling now. It's like i could do that. I mean literally literally. I did do that now. John harvey had his own show going so he was fine he had adulation he had success but will who is now in his forties and was still a lackey saw. This is his great great opportunity in the early nineteen. Hundreds will started experimenting with a new kind of cereal. He played with different ingredients like salt. Sugar which john harvey would have never get away with on his watch. We'll try different. Baking temperatures any abandoned his brother's week to produce a masterpiece golden flakes of cornflakes were wills breakthrough. He knew they tasted good. Better than wheat flakes. And he knew his brother would never agree to market them so after twenty five years of working for his brother will made one of the biggest decisions of his life in nineteen o five. He offered to buy his brother cereal business including the rights to manufacture and sell his brand new cornflakes. John harvey was in debt and wasn't interested in selling and marketing his cereals himself so he said yes. And it's forty six. We'll kill began. His battle creek toasted conflict company. Which we now know international kellogg's. We'll kill it. Could finally get himself an office. He'd be the boss of his own business and he was ready to make some money. He asked all his employees to sign nondisclosure agreements and he stationed a guard outside his factories. Front door to prevent the charlie posts of the world from sneaking in and stealing his ideas because it turns out we'll kellogg's knowledge pat effectively run and business. This big that was invaluable. He understood operations. He understood machinery. He already knew about accounting methods and and inventory methods and then he understood and studied how grocery stores were will knew. He had to make his brand household named with american mothers. Who did most of the shopping at that time. So he spent millions of dollars advertising in major magazines newspapers and ladies journals one campaign told women to go to the grocery store and wink at your grocer. You'll get a free box of cereal. Which nineteen ten is pretty racy. Stock wall eventually will started working with the famous. Leo burnett advertising agency in chicago which worked on mascots for his kid. Friendly cereals sugar ralston. Grower tony the tiger. Where not practical dying. Bet you don't know the name of the rooster on a box of cornflakes morning both cornelius. Cornelius gorn how important was advertising. It was essential. It took a tiny little company in battle creek into everybody's home all around the country and later the world growing up in oakland california. I had heard about creek. I knew it was where all these cereal companies were. Based because i saw it on the side of the boxes i read while eating my fruit loops. I couldn't understand why now i do. So it's interesting for very insecure beaten down forty six year old man. Most people don't embarked on a successful career at that age. He had that feeling. Why does anybody who's excess. Become a success successful hard work talent but also you have to have a feeling deep in your gut. I can do this. And i think that's what he felt. As will cereal business grew. Thanks in part to cornelius and snap crackle and pop. He did something that is brother. Decided was unforgivable. He put the name kellogg on his cereal boxes and he started signing his work on every box and big swoopy read cursive. W k kellogg. John harvey kellogg just lost it. He hated here. The fact that will was doing well. You hid in the fact that it was his invention behavior the fact that he was using the name kellogg in their signatures. Actually were even somewhat similar if you look at them They look a lot of lake and so he just went nuts so he started making his own cereal. Pretty dad cereal rice flake cereal installing it. Kellogg's after the break. This little cereal town wasn't big enough for two kellogg's stay with us. Local businesses are so much more than the goods they sell. That's my mastercard is offering them tools they may need to thrive online like digital doors an online curriculum that gives local businesses the resources and guidance to enhance their presence in the digital economy. So they can start their digital journey with the support. They need to succeed online and keep impacting their communities. Visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors to learn more together. Let's start something priceless. We're back in nineteen thousand. Nine hundred eight will kellogg was spending millions of dollars a year. Marketing is kelloggs cornflakes under the name. The kellogg toasted cornflake company when his older brother released a worst product with a really similar name. Kellogg's food company. I mean quick pop quiz. Can you remember whose company was called. I can't and i have a script in front of me so we'll want to confront the brother. Who bullied him since childhood wilson. Please stop the went to his house. He asked him is a brother. John was a real squirrelly guy. Very hard to nail down was real hard to do business with. He said sure. I'll stop and then in another conversation with threaten copyright. The name kellogg's himself. John told will he could keep using the family name if he paid him. Half a million dollars worth of stock in his company anyway by nineteen ten nineteen eleven will had had it and he asked to a judge to put an injunction against harvey kellogg for making a kellogg's branded serial. The kellogg brothers were going to court at stake was millions of dollars both men's reputations and the name they shared who owned the name kellogg was it john harvey the world famous doctor or will his kid brother the cornflake king. I mean it was. It was epic. I these two brothers fighting fighting in the press or so ugly. You know. I was really hoping netflix's would buy my book because it's such great series. Actually we agreed so. We hired actors to play. The roles of john. Harvey will k. Kellogg was will. I contend now as i did and the judge ordering my court the case went to trial in one thousand nine hundred ten john. Harvey was the heavy favourite but the doctor was a bad witness. I he's very arrogant varies no town of any size in the united states that has not sent people to the sanitarium and he's very invested in being the doctor john harvey kellogg the author of sixteen books. Translated you know. Hundreds of languages international lecture an expert and so on in fact from all parts of the world australia new zealand south africa all parts of england and south america. And he's also. We doesn't like to be contradicted by a lawyer. He's real setup for a smart lawyer to see things to get angry. The kind of witness that across examining attorney logs the of lawyers dread if they're representing the because they just talked too much. John harvey was all over the place on the witness stand. He went from defensive and sarcastic. Kind of deeply reflective about his personality and flaws strong willed puck nationless controversial and skeptical. I keep these unpleasant traits under reasonable control. But when i get worn out they become conspicuous and i appear to very poor advantage right but if you are doing a cross examination of you love you love. We'll k. kellogg did it while in my employ and i did it because he worked for me and he asked my consensus do it and wills turn on. The stand was much less theatrical. A very yes. No kinda guy. I couldn't stay i don't know and just as you know. Mohammed ali did. The robot will be very good. Deposing lawyer was asking questions. I don't recall that that may have happened. I think i did. But i'm not positive i couldn't say i am unable to stay at the time and we'll what frankly wasn't above like on the stand you know. Do you think your brother is famous for his work in nutrition. Not quite sure about well. Of course you are. Come up with even to this day. I didn't know the daca kellogg had any reputation as a dietitian or as an innovator in food products helped boots. And i mean that what tell you about will's character. Well we'll love to win. And as he became more and more successful winning was more important than almost anything in one thousand nine eleven. The brothers reached an out of court. Settlement will own the celtics trademark. But he would still let his brother call his business. The kellogg food company but only as long as john harvey kept the name off his cereal boxes will wanted to make sure that none of his customers were buying the wrong kellogg's by accident and that didn't sit well with John harvey kellogg. Now they reached the detente for a while but then they kept fighting again for the next ten years or so when the national press reported on what happened next they call it the battle of the brand still obsessed with his quest engineer. The perfect bowel movement. John harvey started experimenting with the product. He called sterilized brand. And it would move your bowels. Even better than cornflakes were flakes. Which exactly what it does. Only this time john. Harvey didn't sit on his genius idea. He started calling. Cereal kellogg's sterilized brand and he bought ads in good housekeeping and ladies home journal by nineteen sixteen. He'd sold more than six. Hundred thousand bucks is and will to like too good ball movement needed to talk about it as much and will also liked beating his brother in the cereal business. Oh we'll brand cereal. That was basically a rip off of john. Hervey kellogg's brands. You imagine the king of digestion medical doi ball movements who created basically a palatable lax and then it was stolen so yeah he pulled the cw post basically. John harvey filed a restraining order against his brother's company. One thing led to another and in one thousand nine seventeen. They were back in court again. It came down to the same question. Who is kellogg and one of the great exhibits by the way that will use to show that he was the real kellogg were the every day ad he ever used and the budgets that it costs and the subscription rates of all the periodical advertised the show the millions and millions of people who saw his name associated with his product and the millions and millions of dollars he spent two so the judge was walter north a widely respected man who is known for being fair and in november of nineteen seventeen. He looked down on the brothers from his bench pure dover spectacles and read his verdict. I find that the facts and circumstances established by the proof in this case are such as entitles the defendants to relieve. He dismissed every single. One of john harvey's complaints and he said we'll was entitled to all the money john harvey had made off his cereal in the last ten years it was a total victory for will who said that you know john. You're basically ripping off his ideal. He's advertise to a fairly well. You can sell products under any other name. You don't have to sell your product with a similar signature right next to his but the reality is when people see the name kellogg's today you think of kelloggs cornflakes and so he won. We'll one john. Harvey appealed the case to the michigan supreme court. They ruled unanimously. Eight to zero in wills favor. John also had to pay all of will's legal bills more than two and a half million dollars in today's money by this point has the younger brother surpassed his famous older brother importance. Yeah absolutely and then never stopped. It never stopped because kellogg's became more and more powerful more successful. This victory did not change the fact that will had spent so much of his life filling beaten down his lifelong struggles with his brother with establishing his own business that even after he finally won the damage was done. He couldn't relate well to his children. He had very few friends. What does it say about. His character was extremely lonely. Man almost of the charles foster kane and citizen king where he could not relate to anybody because money and success will became bitter passive aggressive paranoid and hostile. His marriage fell apart. Two of his sons broke off contact with him after he died at the age of ninety one years old one of his grandsons described it as a relief like a heavy weight had been lifted so he got the ultimate revenge but he couldn't enjoy and that to me is one of the great tragedies brothers kellogg is that they could never figure out how important each was to the other and will will i found a very compelling figure. I like writing about him. It was very sad man to be that successful and that's sad and lonely is clearly. The writers love to write about conflict and There was conflict between the brothers to treat internal conflict in well was never comfortable for his part john. Harvey kellogg became more and more eccentric as he grew older he spent time in florida. Were guests at home. Said he would sometimes walk around in his underwear to show up in great shape he was in will was so bothered by this that he wants even considered filing a lawsuit forcing his brother to dress more appropriately and then there was john harvey's abiding interest in his own. Well i'll let dr marquel explain. He had a healthy gut in that and he even liked to offer his a bomb movements would put them in a container and offered him to others. To smell nazi. He was so healthy and eight so well they didn't smell it. I don't know if that's true or not. I mean i know he did. It smells been polite. Not great dr. Keep another reason that might account for john. Harvey slide into obscurity torn the title of most respected kellogg out of his hands. John might have taken himself out of the running like other scientists of his time. John harvey became a vocal proponent of eugenics which made the racist arguments that some people usually white people were born with superior jeans and moral qualities After the court case john harvey and we'll stop talking to each other for awhile when they did meet will insisted on having a third party in the room to witness what was said but more than twenty years after the court handed will his victory. John gave him something will probably want an even more john wrote him an emotional letter a mea culpa from a man who is clearly full regret he knew the end was coming and the thing about john is difficult as he could be he was at heart a good christian man and i think he wanted to make amends at that point of his life and it was basically a letter saying i was wrong. And you're right you're better balanced judgment has doubt mma saved you from fast number of mistakes of the sort i have made in. You have done remarkably well because of your business since all this stuff and allowed you to achieve magnificent successes for which generations to come will. Oh you gratitude but will did not get the letter. Because john harvey secretary never sent it to him. His secretary filed at. She didn't want to be sent. Because it may john harvey look or whatever i earnestly desire to make amends for any wrong or injustice of any sort. I have done to you and we'll be glad if you will give me a very definite and frank expression of anything. I have said or done which you feel should be justly designated on brotherly or otherwise open to criticism in nineteen forty two a little over a year after john. Harvey secretary filed away the letter. The brothers met one last time john. Harvey didn't know why will hadn't responded to his apology and will didn't know that the letter existed. He didn't know the john harvey was sorry. The two met the sanitarium was falling apart. It was deeply in debt. And even though john harvey was no longer in charge he was doing everything he could to rescue the last remnants of his legacy including asking his brother for help so john was trying to get money to keep the sanitarium on an even keel. While will behind the scenes was doing everything he could to get it bankrupt and say bad things about this very moment that john is written a letter to try and reconcile his brother behind the scenes is actually trying to thwart him and undermine him undermine them and bury his legacy. Is the one thing that john had. That would make his boxer. Cornflakes was the sand and they fought like cats and dogs. Several our meeting was was very contentious in any never spoke again and then john harvey died few months later in one thousand nine forty eight. Someone was going through john. Harvey's old filing cabinet when they found the sealed envelope addressed to will and so we didn't get it for seven years later with his brother was long gone to how did will respond when he got that letter. Seven years later. Well that too is sad. It'd be that's another citizen kane. Like moment he was already blind from terrible glaucoma so the letterhead to be read to him. There were tears and silent stoicism but it must we don't know it must have hurt him to the core. I hope that this note may find you more comfortable in that you have many years left to promote the splendid enterprises that have given the name you bear a place. Among the notable ones of our time he kept a picture in his wallet of john harvey's grave it's a tiny little headstone but he kept it in his wallet and he gave copies of that picture to other people. You know as much as they disliked each other. I think they loved each other Were brothers and each made the other better. There would not have been a great battle creek. Sanitarium and all the medical success that john harvey kellogg head if his little brother hadn't been running everything like a swiss watch and they needed each other and complimented each other but they didn't know it one would never become successful without the other there are successes just unmeasurable by most people's lives. Most of us are names are not going to be at all yet. The kellogg family from this tiny town in the middle of the state of michigan. We're still talking about that. Is against all the odds. Howard marquel is professor of the history of medicine at the university of michigan and the author of the kellogg's the battling brothers of battle creek. This episode was produced by sarah. Wyman and julia. Press with me. Charlie hermit. Did you grow up eating cereal. I was a huge fan of fruit loops and one from general mills blueberry. Do you remember that one. Let us know in our facebook group. Would you just search brought to you by podcast. Or as always you can find us on twitter or citizen email at bt y be at insider dot com especial. Thanks this week to ben roseberry. Christopher tim wetzel and steve wyman reenacting that court case declared darris and tyler murphy and thanks again to howard marquel for taking the time to talk with us. He's one of the doctor's help. Coined the term flatten the curve and has been helping to fight the coronavirus pandemic and yet we called him to talk about. Kellogg's sound design is by bill moss. Music is from audio network. John galore in casey holford composed our theme. Our editor is michaela. Bligh dan bobkov is the podfather. Sayre wyman is our executive producer. Brought to you by is a production of insider audio and howard. Thank you very much. Thank you charlie. And i hope you had a good bulb ubin today to not yet. Well may you always be regular. May regularity be with you. This episode was brought to you by mastercard to learn more visit mastercard dot us slash digital doors.
32: We Hadda Baby!, True Crimes, Deep Valley Qs, Little Sadness
"It's Bill Hebei May Pay Corbin another hostess we made a human had an induction scheduled for the next night for October third eight PM which was great because by the time October third eight pm rolled around we just had a baby bribes deep valid questions and turtle sadness third approximately one a m Oh dear thundering it was quite a nice night actually she was out yeah but I'm skipping ahead please please head anyways one. Am October third up some crazy outdoor stairs that are like crazy yeah so walking up and down those stairs in contact me directly be happy to share give us an overview so early in the morning of October neighbor but we didn't we can get a chance I plan was completely foiled yeah we had a great plan where we had such grand plans we were GONNA make podcasting history we were going to break down all the walls and rebuild Welcome to pod Ville thanks for joining us for this family friendly variety show we had plans Julie we have one week ago go come with us to the past where the the ghost of October third has add some fun things that we could record in due to help pass the time during Labor all that long time during Labor I woke up and said I'm having a contraction and then a few minutes later I said Oh I'm having another one a better like time these so i the what what happened so guys we had a baby a real good one good she's a week I would expect usually to happen during Labor what happened Julie what happened shall we tell the story yes that's why I said what happened Amami and my Lewke went to the library and then we went to the nature center we walked down to the little like a river path because we've been having a great time we have been anyways let's let's look let's look back into the past from the ground up you're gonNA break that glass ceiling people not people podcasting in there old today birthday to baby valley trying not to be sad that his past so quickly but it's passed so quickly got up and went downstairs and just laid in my recliner and read my book and Every time I had contraction I would push my little button it how detailed of this story should we go into our limited gritties that's that's the ticket he went to the gym look at me go yeah we went to the gym in just exercise your body and said you were supposed to come out last week that's going on because and I said well too bad I'm sleeping beauty rest saw no I said Okay it's about a twenty minute drive and then took another ten minutes getting the car up to our she won't let me come to the hospital you flunked have your baby at home but the good news is she and sidetracked for like an hour and finally after about an hour I was like okay this is for real I'm having to like Kinda breathe through these contraction it turns out I was having contractions five minutes apart one minute each and that's when you're supposed to go to the hospital right away I was like what sounds that means they're for real legit so I was like okay it's time and I came upstairs and I woke you I said I'm in labor and then I said I'm GonNa pack my bag and get ready to go and call the nurse near like should I get up or can I keep sleeping I was like oh I need to stop during these contractions and like really concentrate Maybe we should pick up the pace a little bit so I had took it up jump in the shower got already I don't WanNa be looking like bedhead we're having a hug now look presentable on my contraction timer on my little APP graduate had that up you miss this what you need it for yeah and we made it we did we have the same car that we had last week so we got to the hospital we made it up to the third floor it was unclear to me what the status but I did say you could keep sleeping and then as I was kind of getting my bag stuff together and I called the nurse and while she was asking me questions about the contractions like how far as the hospital and what number baby is this wow all right let's get you in your little room well yeah we were walking up to the belittle desk to check in everything's earlier that evening we had gone to the gym and exercised and you had walked all around the town and gone to the library and done all sorts of things throughout that day we went yeah the day before me and it believe me because that would have been pretty terrible if she said you better wait because we hopped in the car you're hopefully not too many minutes nice thing is that to a m traffic so even work very well you're moving around moving group but yeah we got I guess they didn't really realize how how fierce I was looking because everybody was like do wheelchair like no to the hospital that was pretty intense the whole the whole time you were breathing through those contractions like this is going to take a few minutes to get there it's good like walking is good to help the contractions kind of pick up you go girl so we got into our the ride you bet at the hospital job my car so you're walking up to the desk little in this story everything is little compared to my experience baby things and the doctor who was very little she was she was little she kind of kind of met us there and shoes I felt myself trying to be like have to answer these questions right or else she's not going to believe me that I get the test wrong I'm GonNa get an F like a little sign everything else later has them contractions coming harder and harder faster and furious that is true too fast young I think so you're walking a little bit slow everyone we saw says do you need to share I know but man they are starting to come harder starting to do some good moaning oh that's the sound you make when you have a baby come out of you L. checked in and they had me sign a paper that's essentially said you may deliver my baby yeah so the they said like Oh we have a lot of things I think people want to hear all knitting and all the greatest or the greatest so if you want the nitty and the gritty must check things out make sure everything's going well get John a little monitor with their little sweet portable monitor apparently didn't I said out loud like am I in transition already this is crazy wow we deals three times before and I remembered very vividly with Lewke when I was having we're going to like I hope we don't have the baby in this car because that'd be a big mess you'd have to get a new car and check in a really needed to not do that you weren't even at the desk very long either signed like hey great we'll just leave your husband here and you come with me we'll go straight to the room because I think she could tell I didn't WanNa stand there okay that like the moment when I'm like oh my gosh these are too painful I I can't do this anymore like that's when I the bed and nothing felt comfortable except shirt being on my hands and knees so I did that and you rubbed my lower back or as we barely been in the hospital our I barely been in labor two hours and I was like I think us because the long hallway to walk down it wasn't very long hallway to get to that level desk then we got in there and they said all right oh the bay imminent addition yeah this is transition this baby's coming out soon which blew my mind because saying like hey we're here we are here take care of us received this maybe and it's a good thing they put us in a room that was very close assign this is the most important one because then that lets us kind of move forward with the business of the day and so we got that one sign and then you he predicted it yeah it was like one long push and then there she was and you're like what is happening the exact same weight as our other daughter Ruby when she was born she was blind she's no longer she's five nine pounds seven ounces there'd be stop talking but yeah choose like I've waited long enough almost a week overdue I guess you and I just overcome with hormones and fears and tears I just really couldn't believe coming in at nine seven ounces valley which happens to be was there which I believe I voiced times at that maybe end after she hung out on the bed with you for a little bit they took our way to uh-huh I know what's happening but they later on the bed next to me because I was still in my hands and knees not feeling like moving uh-huh tiny little labor contain little oh yeah very tiny little baby anyway you said the water hadn't broken yet and so she's like wants to break your water like yes so berkey water and the worst out the water show when there's like a scene at a hospital and the baby comes out 'cause that's not a newborn three month old baby to be like here's the baby right there's babies coming out get the doctor in here please step down to the hallway and She came in and check you out and said yeah babies coming when she was like hanging out with us for a minute before the baby had come shoes like yeah you're I see Zealand right now so it's like I'm doing it I'm doing what you said obeying the letter of the law I'm doing it my way the doctor wiper alphabet and way her and to weighing in at a good nine pounds seven ounces so good fighting weight add like how could this be transition because only but in labor little bit I just like it's just a little tiny I was like cycling we didn't technically go in for the induction this time but right the third time the only surprise was ruby she came all right I'll come out headed out on their own currently I kids respond really well to threats they do from the womb yeah when she gave them a newborn baby you got this baby from central casting she's very cute she was so just to come watch the kids just your mom's here watch skits and we didn't have to worry about it. She said that she could hear action happening while we were kind of getting ready hey come it's like kind of dramatic but also like to the point because it's your due dates this day well I'll just wait a little while link well eh issues something would I don't know like condemn quintal amputation or something like Gosh Anyway I was GonNa do it anyway but that valley is a wonderful still act this way like do this thing okay I'll get to do this thing okay to do it right now or else okay fine I'll do it I was doing it maybe not have fun but something to that effect and then as like as I was texting and I was like I should I wanna say yeah yeah what Lewke was calling anthem baby GonNa come out the waterslide and then she did she be yeah she's in this room right now snoozing here she snoozing she's great and it's been a fun fun week yeah my mommy was here that was wonderful that was that was one of the best things that we could just leave in the middle of the night and not have to call one of our friends it was about time all the other ones essentially yeah just came on the day that we had scheduled to forcibly remove them fired for these tender golden flakes makes them ideal conveyor of good top milk trick your kids into drinking mouth by given the baby and it's been great I we busted out the mobile APP today for me for the first time I don't know how we've never done a mobile APP with any other babies two-year yes they're coming Tokyo address the ones my like sat on the Casse hands-free hands-free babies launches have big aspirations for wearing around the house big all that stay tuned where we move onto other things for this episode but I'm sure we'll bring her up again I don't know we almost never talk about have this scheduled we have a timeframe and come out on this day I don't know I just know movement nothing nothing happening and then like the day I'd like can have a baby soon but I don't want to say that 'cause like I don't know how soon but I could have said we're having a baby in the next hour anyway so gratien anyway want to hear more about this baby she's sleeping roguery she's got Nice Chunky Body knows what you want in a baby squishy as five-way okay that's it isn't all right drawing of a baby not the cutest baby is a little the is yeah baby and everybody was like wow she's huge I'm like that doesn't look like a newborn baby you know like on a TV cornflakes babies cornflakes don't come in that milk because they need them Kellogg's toasted corn flakes is the best liked of all the cereals need to go to the hospital and then I texted her and said Hey we're going to the hospital and I think she texted me back shortly thereafter and said in more than a million homes kelloggs cornflakes the great liking of little folks our children I guess that's true anyway we'll have an ad and after this will come back with a segment with Ruby and a new segment with valley something's not right with the is is our favorite kelloggs cornflakes ad format this is the the nineteen sixteen version you know a word from our sponsors milk is the first and best friend of childhood and the close second it did and boom they and this is what number of time that we went in for an induction and the baby came out on their own well okay but in there for me and just had attached and everything is so wonderful and amazing I can just lean forward and give the baby uh that just say most mothers know these things delicacy and toasted scheduled to be induced at eight o'clock tonight so even if you weren't in labor we would say hey do you wanna start early but I don't think we're going to have to do that nine surprise it was like the day before her due date and she was she was born like fifteen minutes before her due date so we weren't shocked uh I do love a good Kellogg's add who doesn't and they're they're just really pushing that branding hard like this is food for your kids spelman stats to back that up. Most mothers know their crisp delicacy and delightful flavor. I I don't know what would have happened I would have had a baby that's young grabbed seen the drunk history of the invention of telex cornflakes no but I think I know no I we've talked about it before it's it's Yummy and mother's love it and it definitely wasn't invented for a different purpose has high as a five storey house and cost ten thousand dollars last born child no aches retribution rumpelstiltskin style Chris Probably Ovens per eight wonderful toasting ovens at Kellogg's one of the biggest in the world it is it seems like little much but I gotTa have mccaren flakes it's the best serial it is unreal daddy pretend okay okay okay keep telling me it and then he ran away we have a new baby in our house how do you like having a baby get what's your favorite thing to do with baby valley be for another episode of Channel Crimes Yes are right the big news of this week is that careered we have a really big really expensive oven biggest one of the world and then seven other ovens gotta toast them conflicts maybe five story tall ten thousand dollars goes a long way back in nineteen sixty owner just not quite make them out there are eight wonderful toasting events Oh a bad guy came to our house and stole the baby's Bouncy chair fodder bouncy chair she uses the plane with me it's a terrible the over all right I'm here with bad I was afraid that he stole the baby but okay so there's a mom and dad in jail and they had a baby but the most loved seeing the best liked the great liking of little folks and it does go well with milk they're not how did he get that baby jail he got it do you know how there's in have any bouncy chair so he had to bust out of jail to go steal one what well that is quite a story okay okay how did they get the keys through what to the ambulance they were in there still a kid was messing with the fire the oven and ooh that okay okay that's kind of on the the the firefighters then they're leaving the keys in their ambulance this kind of asking for the other true crimes no that's the one that's the main one for this week you have any other stories you wanna tell me l. succeeding happened this week yet what they gleaned their firehouse we are going to the firehouse tomorrow are you they steal the ambulance I don't know how did they steal it at they get in sided what are we going to do there I don't know yet the mystery e doing giving criminals at the firehouse I know good one now about a fire the fire house could tell me tell me tell me says of that guy at the firehouse now you're really good Do you have any baby related true crime for us this week tell me about it he need the bouncy chair for he had a baby the baby in jail you had to run out and steal a bouncy chair for his baby we're actually got a hold of a baby Kellogg stilts slakes shucks no one would've guessed that name and throw the CIDER truck stole a firetruck I mean the Ambiance Ambulance Yeah House or out of our apartment Belichick and Ryan back to his house out with the teacher so they snuck in they did the smoking behind it all this next behind it wow how the heck did you read that I'm really cool new I really cool I'm glad I did because that is really good for me Russian it's there are eight wonderful toasting ovens celtics one of them is the biggest in the world so that's not even all of them there's the Oh my gosh how did they put it out I don't know but I do know there is a fire helicopter running out of fire all of them die fire spreading oh how did the fire start to get the police were gone I mean the firefighters were gone what were they doing they were Mister Gallo don't tell her or overlords at Kellogg one of our primary sponsors let's run off with our invisible or what do you do with that invisible ambulance you as a car anything else to share narrow way well everyone thank you for joining us for true crimes and a special edition of true crimes fire and rescue is invisible and can go through so I can't stop on the road and then other cards will just go through it aw come back next time we love you fire put out but then they got back to the fire station ambulance calling all right did they ever find the ambulance no hire helicopter Oh I bet that helps fire airplane Oh okay so they helped put it out this is why this it's true we deal head cornflakes for breakfast this morning they weren't Galax don't doubt in his hand and kind of toss it back and forth and they dropped it on accident van the firefighters came all of the people say that babies are so fresh and clean and knew that they may hold the the Valley you've been around and alive for a week now so it's about time we got on our podcast Oh my goodness it's the crime of the century even greet even the window feasible everything answers to some of life's deepest questions that brings us to this segment called Deep Valley Questions Moore Mhm wow so it is invisible and also permeable get cool well Oh is that dangerous to drive an invisible car is our other cars run into you it's just a damn against that great very good all right well I see that you go deep down into the brain of baby valley and see what she has to offer us so valley interesting I never thought of it that way before all right next question have you ever been men's blamed too so so you see man's mm Kazoo is so big we hear all it was covering the sky by turn the fire on and then it just spread and spread and spread no he was playing with fire Oh do you like pick up the phone morning yeah well that there were two on the bottom two on the top Gotcha and so they got the ahead of you and you can switch track to go and on a another path and there's only one person would you switch it more deep questions on another install of deep valley questions and now abuse a cal selection A little now your okay first question do you believe that we are living in a simulation meaning this is oh okay I see I see so next we'll move on to the trolley problem if you are I want and then the fire trucks did the one on the bottom in their house okay
C.W. Post Part 2 Health, Hope, and Great Ad Copy
"And welcome to the food. Disruptors, the podcast, where capitalism meets America's food culture. I'm teary Sabrina on and together with my co-host Rettig Lawrence. We delve into the stories of the big personalities who have shaped our food system. And what why and how we eat today for better and for worse. And we looked to the future through interviews with today's food disruptors who even as we speak for determining everybody's nourishment in help as well as the health of the planet in years to come. You know, that expression he could eat you for lunch while seat Avia post could have said that to just about anybody in America at the height of his capitalist powers in the early nineteen hundreds except he would have said I'm gonna eat you for breakfast CW post strove all his life. He wasn't valiant in his struggles. But he rose from the ashes again, and again until he couldn't take the pain of his life in a longer but in between the beginning and the sad end. He built a capitalist empire on the shifting grains of possibly stolen recipes that empire continues to resonate in our economy today, ever hear of great nuts cereal. That contains no, grapes or nuts. And maybe you've also heard of a resort in Florida built by CW post daughter Marjorie, Mary weather pose. Most she called it mar a Lago. Let's hear how we got from there to here. So last time we started talking about CW post and he finally had a hit on his hands with his caffeine or coffee replacement that did not have any caffeine. So what did he do from there? And how did this turn into the the huge cereal empire that he created? I can't well as we calls C W post had covered his health in the health conscious city of battle creek, Michigan where the battle creek sanitarium was located actually see w had not benefited from the time he spent undergoing Animas, and I forgot to mention last week electroshock therapy and the sound so pleasant oh my God. Consider the state of electricity in that era as well. It had to be highly dangerous anyhow didn't help him and he had gone. On and come under the tutelage of a Christian. Scientist woman who taught him to think positively and he would become better and that worked for him, and as and he wanted to spread this cured to other sick people who came to battle creek. And he started a little sanitarium of his own to do that. And in his spare time he invented post him this caffeine, free dark beverage and post him was competitor to the similar goop. They served at the sanitarium. But. He face the problem of getting the rest of America to I hear about it. And then to buy it. And I find it interesting that he did mimic. So many of the things that they did at this other sanitarium, even though it wasn't the sanitarium that made him better, right? Yeah. No, it was the positive thinking that made him writer, but but as we discussed last week CW post was a prototypical mid nineteenth century. Capitalist who started small and had just had dollar signs in his eyes. He tried any number of schemes to make money, and he was not particularly interested in food until he came to battle creek. But I think he was very enthusiastic at having recovered his own health, and he did believe that a proper diet was important as an adjunct to positive thinking in in one's on the road to will Ville. So he he had this product, and he started going around to grocers in battle creek who were reluctant to carry this stuff. They never heard of anything like it. They had no idea that their customers would buy it. So see. W post. It's it's going to sound possess that things he did to market the product. But he invented a lot of these ideas, and they actually were major levers in directing our food system into the consumer based system that we knew for all of the twentieth century. So what he told the grocers was take the product sell it to your customers and don't pay me for it until you sell it. So he fronted the money to the grocer's really innovative. Nobody did that. But he went several steps further. He offered free samples while free samples nowadays, you know. That's we go to Costco on Saturdays just to get the free samples or. Foods, but I guess. Right. Exactly. And back. Then though, this was not something that that anyone did. Now, definitely not. It was not really consumer based marketing at all. And I think he must have learned some of these techniques from his mini hard years. He spent based in Springfield, Illinois as a traveling salesman. He learned you know, what it takes to convince people that they ought to buy a product, and that makes sense because the traveling salesman. They'll always have a demonstration right, though, the demonstration version or something like that to show off Saqlain what you're doing. So he just took this and applied it in a way where you don't need a person there. That's genius that that nobody had done before. And not only did it introduce his his post them to consumers, but it delighted the grocers because when people started hearing about this novelty of free samples, they all went to the grocer's because they all wanted a free sample everyone. He was talking about it. And then of course, they did their grocery shopping. And so it was it was definitely a winning combination with the, you know, don't pay 'til you sell it. And then bringing customers into the store the grocers loved it. And that wasn't all he promised the grocers that he would advertise heavily, and he made what in those days were considered huge investments in local advertising, and I do want to emphasize to listeners to the food disrupters to keep in mind. I know it's obvious. But in a way, it's not there was no internet, and there wasn't even radio or television. So everything was print advertising and in the nineteenth century either. There were a whole bunch of demographic and economic factors that were drawing to. -gether to push all of us and our food system into the great age of print advertising. So this started with snake oil salesman back in the early half of the nineteenth century and the quacks and product salesman who would come into town. They were the entertainment people had very little variety in their lives. And so is up to these sales people they were all men to put on a good show, and they put out some advanced materials, they would have just little very cheap. Flyers printed up announcing that they were coming. And what people, you know, something scintillating that people could look forward to and they often painted these sides in the roofs of Barnes with huge huge signs early. Billboards exactly in fact. There is still one north of us here in San Francisco when you're coming south on one zero one it's doctor Pierce's tonic believe, yeah. When you're anyhow said, those were the precursors to Bill billboards and print advertising, there was another magnate to be in the food sector named Henry crawl. We're gonna talk about him later. But he was the man who put Quaker outs on the map. He really was a head of CW post and the Kelloggs brothers in terms of advertising. So the advertising was not entirely new, but C W post marketing methods were so how what was the environment lake at this time in terms of packaged foods because this is basically, you know, this is one of a very fairly early ready to eat food. You know, you add something to it. You can eat it was it entering an array of other sort of more local, not as large ones or was it really kind of a standalone that that this long with Quaker Oats and some of these others were the first. Packaged foods what Quaker out gets dibs on being for. They did manufacturer individual size samples the environment for packaged foods. I think was focused mostly on the canning and somewhat on the bottling sector. We've talked to that a bit about the canning industry. But we didn't talk about the canning industry right at the turn of the twentieth century, and we're going to because we're going to talk about Campbell's soup. But the issue with canning in the nineteenth century was the technology advanced and better and better seals and safer. Canning methods were developed quandary for both sellers of canned goods, and particularly for buyers of can goods was there was nothing on the cans that said what was inside. So pretty soon manufacturers figured out that they needed to put on. Pictures of what was inside. So usually the packaging advertising would involve a picture of the food like a can peach would have a nice peach, and then simply the manufacturer's name. And that was the extent of it. Because of course, there were no FDA requirements for nutrition facts labeling and so forth. So it was very rudimentary. Quick roads did have individuals sized packages and bright red and their signature round canister, which was a huge deal and brilliant on his part. But it was pretty rudimentary by the time post came along. And we're not even at his cereals yet still with the post them one thing about the post them was that it was pretty easy to prepare. It was a convenience food women were entering the workforce. It was the progressive era and another thing posted market post him was he will he I branched out to Grand Rapids, Michigan which was a bigger industrial town and he bought a huge raft of print advertising in that grand metro area. And so created demand, and this this whole concept of creating demand and getting people to buy something that they didn't know they wanted or needed. This was new at the turn of the last century. And what else he did in the ground rapid Syria. Was he hired this woman? Florence title. And he sent MRs Tuttle out to grocers she became essentially, a traveling demo gal. And she would it would be an event, I'm sure and and various grocers would host her, and she would be there to show people how to prepare post them and how to use it like all of CW pose advertising the ads for post two made crazy claims. I'm sure what were some of the things he said, I'm bet they're all around health, given its origin. But well, some of them derided coffee. There was sort of that angle that coffee was was the cause of innumerable Hartill men's and nervous ailments. None of which was proven. It was all speculation gives me heartburn. So he's got back. Oh, okay. There you go. And that wasn't a hard sell to tell people that. Off the wasn't good for them and post him. I guess people thought it tasted pretty good. So that was reasonable. But one of the claims he made was that it made your blood, redder. It makes blood red that for some recent convince people that it was a good drink to have an and he made other claims of other products, which will get to. But I wanted to focus on post him for a moment. Just to emphasize that he he did really create this whole gestalt of marketing around that product and an interesting aside, which we'll talk more about later in another episode was this left will Keith Kellogg just with steam coming out of his ears because he knew that CW posed to pretty much stolen and then tweaked the recipe for the hot grain beverage. They served. The metal creek sanitarium and the money brother of the Kellogg's brothers at that time John Harvey Kellogg wouldn't allow will Keith to go head to head with post in the advertising and post made a fortune. He made millions which was the equivalent of tens of millions today. Oh, I gotta tell you one other. So what do you think happens when a product is super successful, especially in an environment? Like battle creek, Michigan where there were tons of people trying to cash in on the health fad that the sanitarium had created imagine me start good knockoffs, especially since it wasn't particularly regulated back then. Yes. And so there were all these knock off Posta GMs with all their funny, you know, vitality. Inspiring names. And they competed on price. So the second year that post him was on the market sales to precipitous die. And so what would you do if you were post in that happened? I probably try to figure out why was it from these competitors? Yes. People were buying the cheaper brands, the make yours cheaper. And how would you do that? Besides cutting the price. Well, yeah, I mean, well, you would cut the price. But how would you keep your business afloat to do that? I'm not sure they've you'd have to make your product cheaper probably and he tried to do that and failed. He could not do it. So what he did was. He took the Jeff Bezos approach, and he just undercut the competition on price. But he did it. And this is just so wonderfully sneaky, actually is probably very standard practice in in America's industrial food. Mill you today. What he did was he created an entirely different brand. It was called monks brew, and he sold it cheaper than the other posed knockoffs. But his claim about -mongst brew was that it tasted exactly the same as post them. And the reason was was that it was posted. And so he he drove everybody else had a business then he took -mongst. Grew off the market and post them dominated. It was a believe that's called predatory pricing. Okay. But but yeah, I'm surprised that surprised that it worked for him. And they didn't pop up right afterwards. So he had a real sense of how to get a product to market. I mean, he really did pioneer that in the food sector. And so how did he go from this this coffee replacement to cereals will? Well, he was at the sanitarium. He, of course, came across their proprietary serial that they sold to their patients, and they did manufacture small quantities of it in this got into the advertising, no advertising conflict between the two Kellogg's brothers. See w did witness the recipe that the Kellogg brothers used to create what they called granola and a re. Really wasn't what we think of as granola today. It was hard little berries of weet, toasted toasted wheat. And in fact, one patient broke a tooth on what they served her and that led to the invention of flakes. But we'll get to that. In a second. What the Celtics were having trouble doing was really getting the wheat dough to work out the way, they needed to work out to crack up into these hard little pellets, and they actually in the course of trying to make wheat flakes. They will Keith Kellogg who was working after hours trying to please everybody and invent this product got very frustrated and kind of threw in the towel at least for few days. And he forgot about this batch of weet goop that he left sitting in the. Mental kitchen and win. He came back. It was on this presser machine that he'd been working on and it was all moldy. And he was just disgusted, and he just in frustration gave the machine a crank and the the moldy does zipped into the machine and came out in this perfect flat sheet that they could break off that they could toast, an exactly the way they wanted to the fermenting that occurred when they left it sitting. There was exactly what was needed. And so that was the secret ingredient if you will boldness. So C W post new this, and he created a very similar product to the sanitariums granola, but he added a sweetener mall toes, which happens to be one of the main sugars in grapes, and as he created his product of food, he aroma as it baked along with. It's very hard crunch led to the name. Grape nuts, which famously does not contain grapes or nuts. But what is sold as grape nuts today is very very close to what was originally created by c w post and he having had such success with post to started a market the hell out of great nuts. And he knew more about what he was doing. We're going to post on the food disruptors dot com. Some of these wonderful advertisement. It's both for grape nuts and post toasties, which were Kella not Kelloggs cornflakes. They were post cornflakes amazing advertisements that go into a lot of narrative and CW post wrote these himself, and he believed that for better for worse. He believed that housewives needed to be spoken to in a simple manner as if you were their friend, and that's how the copy reads heap, it he also made claims about his cereals, and he claimed not just that they were good for you. But that they cured illnesses. And he claimed that grape nuts cured rickets malaria, rheumatism brain problems, heart disease consumption, and ironically, appendicitis because that may be what actually came close to killing CW. Post a few years later. Of course, grape nuts cures. None of these things, of course. And finally, interestingly a publication refused to carry the grape nuts advertising saying this is this is just bunkum. This is completely over the top. And that enraged CW post who by then was one of the wealthiest men in American already of food bag Nate. And this was Collier's weekly magazine. Collier's weekly took on CW post and wrote an article claiming that grape nuts did not cure appendicitis, and this was patently false advertising and see view post in turn had published somewhere an article that essentially said that the writer of the Collier's article was mentally incompetent. And that Collier's had the colliers had written this article because post refused to advertise in the publication. So call your sued him for libel. And the suit went on for a couple of years. And finally was the judgment went against post. And he was fined fifty thousand dollars which was huge. But then be the verdict. Not the verdict was overturned. But I think the fine was overturned eventually, but he he had lost. So in all these these, you know, he's becoming very wealthy. He selling line. He's he'll these dubious claims I feel like what maybe separates snake oil from what he's selling. Is that people still like, you know, nowadays people still eat grape nuts and has nothing to do with any health claims. How much do you think people were he was becoming successful because of these health claims and how much for the health claims simply creating a reason for people to buy. This food that they enjoy eating otherwise that's such an interesting turn of phrase because the catch phrase for grape nuts and other post cereals turned out to be there is a reason. And that that was it. And I think Tansu your question that the health claims were attention grabbing and consumer advertising was in such an infant stage that consumers weren't really suspicious of it. They really didn't have good reason to disbelieve what they were told in. There was a power of thority in the printed word, and there was so much of it. We haven't talked a whole lot about the price of paper was coming down the end the price of inks and just the availability of eye-catching four color advertising was. Becoming more and more prominent and prevalent so did people by the the goods because of the health claims I'm gonna say probably did a lot of them did. And then they kept on buying it. Because even if it didn't improve their brain functions. They did like it and other. Why did they like it it tasted? Probably okay. It was. I think a huge factor was convenience because again women were entering the workforce. There was the middle class was growing women wanted to do other things besides slave in the kitchen all day, and you know, an easy way to feed your family in the morning that you were told was healthy. Right. So I think it was probably a bit of believing the help claims and then. Just the whole, you know, big demographic shift in economic supports for heavily advertised, convenience foods that was when it was was coming to the fore. We are going to soon have an episode on the rise of home economics in America. And I think that health claims were really important at the turn of the century people were suddenly conscious that food was somehow related to their health, again seems obvious. But it it really wasn't obvious. I mean, there were the the milk crises in it. It took so long for people to figure out that they were killing their infants all summer long with bad milk with tainted milk. And so this was all coming to a head whom economists were preaching. Hygiene, and you know, these nicely neatly packaged cereals looked very hygienic. So I think I think that had a lot to do with it. Unfortunately for CW post. And I mean, this is just this huge irony which listeners, you will appreciate more. If you do go look at some of these advertisements are going to have on the website because his focus on the health aspects of his products is really so sad because he never got healthy himself. He did recover in battle creek. But his stomach always continued to bother him. Meanwhile, he's not a food disruptors character for nothing because he was among those magnets who dumped his wife, eventually the poor long-suffering Ella became successful. That was it will he no, I guess they been drifting apart. Yes, he. He traveled worldwide. And by the way, he marketed his cereals internationally, and when will kill Kellogg did get into the fray head to head with post post already had a substantial presence in South America in Europe. So he traveled a lot and on many of these travels. He took his his much beloved daughter Marjorie and for Marjorie hit hired a companion who no doubt was traveling companion named Letitia and Letitia was close to half CW age, and he ended up marrying her after he divorced. Poor Ella divorce was very uncommon in those days. And and so that was very much a public scandal. And I do want to mention because it's important in terms of our foods. System, and our food culture in particular, all of a sudden at the turn of the last century, these huge fortunes started being made food already McCormick had made a huge fortune with the reaper, but that was in a more Victorian era and things were now in the progressive era. And Moore's social Moore's were changing and Marjorie was very close to her father traveled with him and saw, you know, this grand lifestyle up close and personal as it turned out seat of you posed never did regain his help. He was supposed to give a very important political speech. He he did become a political figure of sorts. He was a rabid anti unionist and reviled by workers for that reason. Although he he repeatedly treated his workers. Well. L good salaries living conditions and and relatively safe working conditions for the day. But he was supposed to give this big speech. And he just felt terrible. He cancelled the speech, and then he collapsed, and he was in his home in Santa Barbara, California at this point. And he was rushed by express train from Santa Barbara to the mayo clinic in Minnesota Rochester. Yes. And it's it's kind of an exciting story. They they sent an advanced train ahead of CW's chain and cleared all the traffic off the tracks onto Spurs. So that his chain could could zoom through at what? Then in those days was probably considered bullet speed. They got him to the male clinic and here accounts differ. One account is that. At the mayo brothers two more brothers in the health field decided that his condition was inoperable other accounts say that he had appendicitis which is ironic considering his marketing claims for grape nuts. And and that he was operated on in March of whatever year that was nineteen fourteen but he went back to Santa Barbara and his stomach still hurt. And again, I I mentioned in last week's episode that is suspect there was a very, you know, some kind of big depression going on and he sounds manic because he had these bursts of genius and these very vivacious marketing enterprises and yet then he would come crashing down. So he was in Santa Barbara, and he was rummaging through his gun collection. And he got sadly in his head the idea that he would kill himself. Any did with a Winchester rifle using his toe to pull the trigger and blow off the top of his head. What would to go very sad. He left the bulk of his fortune his entire post them food company to the twenty seven year old Marjorie and Marjorie Merriweather post became one of in her day. So for the whole first half of the twentieth century, the most famous socialite in America and possibly in the world, certainly the richest woman in America a philanthropist and bit of a husband eater. One has been though was e f Hutton, Gena Hutton. Okay. You're too young. E f Hutton used to be the name of one of the major brokerage firms on Wall Street and she married. The F Hutton in the nineteen twenties. And with him the post him food company made several. Acquisitions, including a gosh. What what were they were important once they were Maxwell house coffee, again, I Ron ick coffee. Yeah. And some other very large companies eventually, I know birds, I was one of them he diversified into added to the serial portfolio, a whole bunch of other important foods foods that were already craft craft later acquired them in the great emanate shuffle in the late twentieth century, but if Hutton changed the postal food company into General Foods, and so just looking at our food system, and how we have ended up eating the things we eat. It also created these four chins that really were both the basis of American high society in many of the. Characteristics of our capitalist system that the money stayed where the money was grew there, and that someone like Marjorie Merriweather post just got the money and woman at that probably imagine if he had had a son she would not have gotten that. Which would have been too bad. Oh, why do you imagine that? If didn't didn't in that time didn't they usually leave money to male children over female children. Oh, I see if he if he had had a son in March. We wouldn't have gotten it. Yeah. That's that's a possibility. But she seemed like she did quite well for the company in crew it into even larger behemoth, and she was she was daddy's girl. I sense there was there was a lot of love between those two. And there were those lots of juicy gossip around his demise. Because Letitia sued the estate and eventually settled with Marjorie lati-. She came away with a mere six million was huge in those days. And so they both they both did. Well, but that's the story of c w post sounds good. He certainly changed. Both the how we eat and how we advertise food, and then even creating huge conglomeration in after his death, and sort of a sad food disruptive at a disruptor so many of them sad though at this point. That's almost the standard. Yes. I guess. So I guess I'll bet they're fence him happy ones too. I think and we will be talking about both happy and sad food disruptors in further episodes, including as we mentioned home, economists, certainly Kellogg's brothers, Henry crawl of Quaker Oats. And so there was so much. Oh in the Campbell's soup company at the there's so much going on at the turn of the nineteenth century into the twentieth century. And we are still eating the way we are eating because. Because of what happened then? So we're we're throwing open the doors to the thin dec- echo. Poor c w post, but despite his sad, demise. He lives on in breakfast foods throughout the world and his story lives onto because we're going to hear more about the juggernaut advertising and marketing bit launched the great twentieth century food empires. Henry prowl of Quaker Oats one as the strangely. Twisted. Brothers known as the Kellogg's. And of course, we'll hear about their heirs in spirit the food. Marketers of today, you say post them isn't for you. How about a red bull? Anybody be should've. Visit our website the food disruptors dot com for our show notes. Great visuals and deeper dives. We love hearing from you. So feel free to comment and keep the conversation going see next week. The food. Disruptors is created written and hosted by Theresa Brown, co hosted by Ruddick Lawrence website and tech support by Dan current and is produced an edited by Charlene Goto of Goto productions if you like what you hear be sure. And subscribe rate and comment to the show on apple podcasts or wherever you find your podcast media. Thanks for listening.
Breakfast Myths and Marketing [S2E10]
"What did you have for breakfast? Today has your idea breakfast changed overtime. Growing up my mom fixed the daily breakfast of eggs. Bacon and grapefruit mom was influenced by the Iowa. Healthy breakfast study which she was told. You needed this healthy breakfast for school. But if you grew up in the south you might have had biscuits and gravy while California. Didn't invent GRANOLA. It is often associated with the California breakfast and coffee. We have coffee and no doubt you heard the saying eat breakfast like a king lunch like a prince and dinner like. Popper Adele Davis. The health who died of cancer said that of course. She said a lot of nutty things. Lots of claims about breakfast lose weight. Jumpstart your metabolism and be less hungry. We will see. The breakfast is more influenced by marketing than science. But there is science today and Brett bisque myths realities marketings hopes and what we know from science. My Name is Dr Gary Simpson. And this is culinary medicine where we sort out the crazy from credible about from its source to its effect on your body busting myths and showing evidence where food and medicine breakfast or breaking of the fast is the first meal one eats after a night. Time of fasting. Assuming you slept but throughout time what one. Each per breakfast has changed. Romans eight mostly bread and leftover also had paint kicks no maple syrup. We would have to wait for the Canadians for that. One early Americans a cold meats rice hominy and usually leftovers from the night before one restaurant menu from nineteen. O One had chicken on the menu for breakfast but the idea of a healthy breakfast came in shortly. After that. If you were wealthy or famous and had problems you would go to one of the health. Spas and the most famous of the day was in Battle Creek Michigan from the eighteen seventies till its decline and the Great Depression. It was this country's version of PALTROW's goop peddling nonsensical cures to the rich and famous. And using that as leverage to peddle cures to America John D. Rockefeller Thomas Edison Henry Ford Presidents Harding and tapped Mary. Todd Lincoln and Amelia earhart. We're all guests at this health. Spa Run by Dr John Harvey Kellogg. Who invented by the way the word sanitarium for his health spa? He had strong views about health influenced by religion. Kellogg was a seventh day. Adventist who believed that the evils of society were meet tobacco alcohol and sex. He never consummated his own merit meet. His religion was evil leading to lustful thoughts to avoid this. He invented an alternative breakfast that contained no me. He said that this would not only solve the problems of indigestion or dispatch as many of his clients complained of but this would be a morning. Anti Master Batori meal and for the record. No one has ever studied that conclusion. His invention which you know as kelloggs cornflakes were made available widely to the public in about Nineteen O. Six Kellogg also had his own health magazine. It was called good health. One of the most. Well read magazines about health during the day bit. Was that days. Version of prevention magazine peddling his own version of health wellness and nonsensical cures in his magazine. He was the first to state. That breakfast was the most important meal of today. Today's cornflakes have a slightly different recipe than the original ones. That Dr Kellogg admitted his brother decided to add sugar to them because they were going to sell these to the masses and breakfast cereal maker Kellogg richer than a sanitarium telephone health advice. Took hold and America went from breakfast. Meats and rice to one of cereals rolls and coffee then came the second wave of marketing. Then Nineteen Thirties. Beech-nut of chewing gum fame. But they were also Bacon. Producers wanted to increase bacon sales so they turned to the PR firm of one. Edward Bernice since breakfasts have become lighter. Do Kellogg's influence one of cereals and coffee in a role they wanted to change that soberness ask the company physician. If a heavier breakfast would be good the doctor agreed and they mailed five thousand positions and ask them if they agreed forty five hundred of them did and the Perm took out advertisements. In the nation's newspapers forty five hundred doctors agree. It said you need a heavy breakfast to start the day make him and what goes best with breakfast bacon eggs. You need a heavy breakfast. The doctor stated to give you energy and boost your metabolism and help you work harder and longer the marketing worked beechnuts bacon sales increased. Then the all American breakfast of Bacon and eggs was born. Bernez is considered the father of American marketing. The original madman of Madison Avenue. Bernice uncle was influential in his thoughts about marketing. His uncle Sigmund Freud to competing ideas about breakfast one based on meat for a good start one based on cereal for another kind of start or lack of start both with plenty of health claims and then those ideas became firmly entrenched in the minds of people to competing thoughts about. What's good for breakfast? So they began to test those hypothesis. Who sponsored the studies turned out? Industry did the cereal industry poultry industry. The Bacon Industry. Does that bother you to be fair? Just because an industry sponsors study does not mean. The study is flawed. But it should raise a level of skepticism. One must be skeptical of a study that draws the conclusions according to the industry that's funds it. The Iowa breakfast study for example. If you WANNA get a copy of the original twenty papers you have to right to the cereal institute and if you read them there was actually not that much difference between the workability of skipped breakfast or not. That's probably not what you heard. The study set is it. What about weight loss? You've probably heard all of those studies at associate people who eat breakfast as having less excess weight than those who skip breakfast. The problem is they are two different groups of people meaning those who regularly breakfast and those who regularly skip breakfast. They're just looking at one factor between people who are skinny and those who are not adding calories if you normally skip breakfast doesn't appear to be a good weight loss strategy instead of looking at breakfast eaters versus non breakfast eaters. What happens if you take some Group of people the same group of people and randomized them to a group of breakfast eaters and then change them to a group of people who skip breakfast. There have been thirteen such studies. And what did they conclude? There is no evidence that eating breakfast helps you lose weight and in fact in some studies people who started to eat breakfast gained weight. What a thought. Eat more calories during the day by taking up breakfast and you don't lose weight though. Studies also didn't look at what is eaten for breakfast. Did you know that yogurt has more sugar than most ICE CREAMS EDEN? So-called Greek yogurt. Maybe you thought Granola was a health food. That's how it's marketed. Granola is properly classified as desert. If you were to eat a bowl of quaker oats and honey and natural granola. You're eating twenty six grams of sugar and four hundred twenty calories so to put it another way. You're eating the same amount of sugar as in five. Oreo cookies and as much as my son Loves Orioles. I wouldn't allow him to have that for breakfast. And if you check in with the American Heart Association the total amount of sugar that a woman should have is twenty four grams a day or thirty two grams for a man starting out the day with all of your sugar. It isn't healthy. Unless you're trying to gain weight than have a sugar deficiency that Bran Muffin. You ordered from the counter of the local. Coffee shop has more calories and fat than a big Mac and then they're the other cereals that are little more than pastry in a bowl of milk. What about jump? Starting Your Metabolism. You wake up and REV UP. Your metabolism does breakfast work to do that. The data is not agreeing with that. Some data about fasting shows no difference in metabolism. Some data show that people who eat breakfast expend more energy riding a bike going to a gym running. But that's those two groups of people. The group of people who ate breakfast tend to be? The group of people who ride bikes are active. That may or may not be you but the latest study in people whether they skipped breakfast or not had no effect on people who were lean. What about people who aren't Lee? What about people who are a little portly software? Or let's say people who have Metabolic Syndrome with insulin resistance. It turns out eating or skipping breakfast at no difference. Do you eat less if you have breakfast on. It turns out that it's kind of to you if you are a breakfast eater. Maybe if you're a not then you end up eating more calories. Beheading the calories breakfast The sciences all over on this one breakfast doesn't boost your metabolism it. You are not hungry. There isn't evidence to say you must or should eat it. The evidence that you lose weight with breakfast is not convincing and few have wikileaks. Heading those extra calories at breakfast won't help you lose more nor is the evidence that you'll be less hungry if you eat breakfast. There are plenty of people who eat breakfast and do just fine so if you like it. Great if not don't stress on the scale of one to five one is food. Khan and five is science. Breakfast is a two point. Five coffee of course has to be a solid five. Thank you for listening to this episode of Culinary Medicine with me Dr Terry Simpson and while I am a doctor just like Dr Harvey Kellogg but hopefully better train. I am not your doctor and you should always seek the advice of trusted licensed medical provider with experience in your particular conditioner concerned before taking any actions although if they prescribe a coffee enema. Run coffees by mouth. Culinary medicine is a part of your doctor's orders network and you can find post and some references on your doctor's orders dot com we're produced and distributed by our friends at simpler media and my executive producer is talented and lovely producer girl producer girl production. You can follow me on twitter where I am at Dr Terry Simpson. That's PR Terry Simpson. And I'll be back next time when we'll have another conversation about food is medicine or unveil another fleet calm until then don't drink the water. Drink THE WINE. Haibo when you were on the sausage and beer diet. What was the first thing you had for breakfast on the November first when you were off the beer and sausage diet? That's easy sausage eggs because you can take the boy out Oklahoma but.