20 Episode results for "Katie Hill"

A Conversation With Former Congresswoman Katie Hill

Worst Year Ever

1:16:26 hr | 8 months ago

A Conversation With Former Congresswoman Katie Hill

"The class of two thousand twenty deserves a proper sendoff which is why Iheartradio and Doritos brings you commencement the podcast featuring speeches and dedications from icons. We admire most hear from a lot of things. We will never injury. Pit Bull guys a generation go. Change the World Becky. G Cashew and many many more check out. Commencement the podcast out. Now on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get podcasts. With a special DORITOS Valedictorian episode. Where Doritos takes graduation? Speeches to another level by naming five Valedictorians giving them each fifty thousand dollars in tuition assistance in sharing their speeches with the world iheartradio and the US Census Bureau wanted to do something special for the class of twenty twenty so we made commencement a new podcast with words of inspiration from the biggest names like Palsy. While we can be sold a lot of things we will never buy a dream. Katcha Becky G and pit bull generation will change the world. Listen to iheartradio new podcast. Commencement in partnership with the twenty two thousand census speeches available now on iheartradio APP. Or wherever you get your podcasts remember. You can do something that'll affect the next ten years so if you lived in a dorm. Don't worry your school will count you if you didn't visit twenty. Two Thousand Census Dot Gov to be counted welcomed the worst year ever a production of iheartradio. Now down welcome back to worst year. Ever my name's Katie. Stool still welcome back to worse. You're ever Hello Robert Evans. I am PODCAST and I've decided to experiment with disorder. It's poetic ray of Mike. Today we have a very interesting interview with the former congresswoman from California's twenty Fifth District Katie Hill. We were really excited to talk to Katie today. Just a heads up. We did not address What happened to her when she resigned. I mean we acknowledged you lose. Let's just be straight up so like she had. She had a relationship with a staffer That was inappropriate and she also had Spouse that she was divorcing who put out a bunch of photos of her That is and that's like a some of this is still ongoing court stuff. It's a very messy story. It's also been exhaustively covered by like a billion different journalists in in places so you can find multiple interviews with Katie. You can find Journalists who went into the story talking with other people like there's tons of that stuff and It's it's it's there's plenty out there. That's not what we're talking about today. Because she has this experience that we find valuable. Yeah we're going to transmit to you and I thought it was a really interesting conversation so here that is oh well today. We are very grateful to be joined by Katie Hill. The former Congressman from California's twenty Fifth District. Hi Katie has a going. Hello thanks for having me We're we're very grateful For you to take the time out of your schedule to chat with us My very busy schedule of sitting in my apartment. Yeah I think we can all relate to that right now. We're all kind of on the schedule. Except for those of us who are worried about how to get through the hordes of sick people to get to their yachts. That's true that's true yes solidarity to those people and their struggles that are very very real Yeah so Katie. There you wound up resigning very controversial after details of your personal life. Where shall we say? weaponized people can read any number of articles if they want to form any number of opinions out there. There's a quite quite a lot that's been written. That's not what we're going to be talking about today. We might return at a later interview Today we have Some different topics we'd like to get into because you have this experience of not just sort of of running for office in a more conservative district but as someone who had a lot of progressive Political stances on as someone who had to work on Capitol Hill As someone who is still kind of in that world now but in a different context so yeah all of that stuff art experiences. I have anyone else can like hold that particular in in politics that I have at this very moment. So very unique perspective Today I would love to start by talking about the recent runoff election to fill your old see California twenty five has been a Republican stronghold since the nineties and your win twenty seventeen was seen as a very big victory. An upset And which is why. Many people were disappointed when Mike Garcia Former navy pilot and defense executive at Raytheon. If I'm not mistaken sponsor on solid pod Raytheon not really Katie. We Love Raytheon here. One day we're hoping we're hoping big Kobe. Start paying. Yeah yeah made out of knives. Pretty Cool Could you could you tell us a little bit of Mike and walk us through what happened? Okay so mike was actually the first and I guess pretty much the only major opponent that I had going into Either for my reelection and there was there was never really. Were having debates or anything like that it was. I wasn't even at that point. Really engaging with him or his campaign. We saw each a few times at different events but that was it but once I resigned. Steve Knight jumped back in after. I resigned right and so it it became a race really between Christy Smith and shake you Gar and like those of us who were paying attention to the new. The district in particular knew that it was never a race between Christie and shake our side on the side and but on the other side it was a race between Steve Night and Mike Arcia. And so you know we knew the two two people were going to move forward one demo one Republican and the I think a lot of folks were hoping a lot of folks on our side. We're hoping that it would be Steve Night. Because we've already beaten and before Again Etcetera Etcetera. But Mike has no record. He's got no nothing that could be used against him. Whereas Christie had been elected as an assemblywoman California at the same time that I got elected to Congress and so she did have a record and some pretty tough votes for you know especially for for assembly members in California AB five. I think in particular was one that was being used against her a lot. So you know I think there's an a number of different things that we get into but Mike Garcia is the probably the most important thing is that he is all in on trump. That's the Apple. Need to know is like one hundred percent in and the district is a is a fascinating one. When you're looking at like how this can play out in district's like my former one across the country because it's a presidential year the the electorate is more democratic. But if we're looking at you know. I know that we're the ones who are advocating for all mail ballots and or or at least reverend have the option of voting by mail but if in California it's an all-male elite election in November. I definitely worry about this district and others because so many of the people that we rely on especially in presidential years well ever to get Democrats elected they. Many of them have never voted by mail. They just there. They come out every four years only on election years and they go to the same polling places many times and when when those polling places have been switched up at it causes all kinds of problems and so anyway. I guess that's my rambling answer to to start before you ask other questions. Yeah Yeah that's interesting. 'cause Mellon Mail in ballots you. I think that everybody here agrees That people need to have that as an option but it is tricky and it's interesting the way it gets framed as Democrats looking for a way to cheat. Opole when actually if you think about it it stands to hurt us in many ways it knows. Yeah no people I. I don't. I think that you know I actually posted about this today on on twitter just like why is he going to striking knows that the last. I'm talking about trump. The last person that was elected last Republican that was elected from a state a seat that had been held previously by Democrat was because of all mill election. You know So and I honestly think that and again I think it was the right call. I think that that's how it needed to happen. But because of covid and the fact that the the Democrats weren't able to have a field operation in the way they normally we're able to and the lack of in person voting win that's how large communities are are conditioned to vote was was the biggest barrier because field is and that's not at all to take away from the disengagement or the the lack of enthusiasm that people on our side would have had because of me losing the or. I mean me resigning and the scare all kinds of stuff played in a lot of different factors that contributed to. But you're right. I mean I I Campaign for you myself a bunch of obscene but I know It makes a big difference being able to interact and talk to people and answer their questions and and I got into a lot of fascinating. Conversations with people and get your. Your district is pretty conservative or you know or moderate you know even the Democrats that are there are a bit more moderate. But that's interesting because the way that this has been framed a lot in in news articles that you read about this election you know they they talk about how. This is the first time a Republican has won a seat held by Democrats insulting know and conservatives are using this as like you know this is a good sign for twenty twenty but it. It does not sound from your answer to be as clear cut as that. I know but I do think it should be seen as a warning sign. Yeah know especially in in. I think that covid has created a completely new environment. That is one that we really need to be able to adapt quickly to and And that you know if I were if I were currently in my. Let's just pretend that I hadn't resigned is currently in my seat that I hadn't had a scandal that I was just going along the way that I had I think that this would be the point at which I was most concerned about previously. I had not been at all concerned about my reelection because it was a right now. Three cities in the district. Three of the major cities in the district have openly done orders or emotions to To to protest the governor's actions to basically say that they should be opening in a Santa Clarita Lancaster in Seamy Valley. And and I think those are the only ones. But I'm you know I haven't been paying as close attention. Obviously but anyway so so. The dynamic is is getting much more heated. And especially when you're talking about these. These are the suburban communities right. These are ones that are very spread out are not You know it's not the same setting as you have in la where people or any of the major cities where people can get it right But they're saying these open these open shopping centers and just now not really understanding or or they're following the keys of the president and other Republicans who are just going. I don't whatever it doesn't matter. All I'm saying is that this is. This is the time where it has been the most directly polarized in where if I were in the position in Congress I would have I think the hardest time trying to navigate that because the economic realities are are very true when you're talking about communities that haven't been as hard hit by the pandemic it's hard case to make. Yeah well that brings me a to to stuff that I also WanNa talk to you about Coronavirus I'm sure it's really difficult for you right now to be watching all this unfold and not be able to weigh in on the legislation. That's happening in end you're right. It is really tricky I. It's you know certain navigating the politics of it in the different needs of different communities from your perspective. What do you think needs to be happening? What what do we need to see from Congress right now or you know and also conversely what? What have they gotten right? Yeah well so having been there. This is the part that I like have a lot more sympathy towards the than I would have otherwise ever even imagined being able to have we feel like since we got the majority in the house. We should be able to to exert kind of a lot more control on what happens but I think what makes us different than Republicans is that. We're not willing to hold up any kind of help because we don't get everything that we want or even in some cases even close everything that we want. And and that's I think like I don't know that that's a failing at all of character but I think that it's that's what amounted to every single time when we were. Kinda putting those physicians of you know. Do you vote for her. Reopening the government if it means some kind of order barriers. Do you vote for you know whatever it is because of the Senate compromise that has to happen and I think that it's just A. It's an incredibly difficult situation. And I have. I've been watching this and I'm just thinking about like the progressives who I know you know have major issues with the bill who end up voting for it anyway because they how do you say that you're not going to give any help. When you know that you're not gonNA get anything better from the Senate But also you know. This is a weird weird time where where the members regular rank and file members. Don't have much that they can do in terms of any of the legislation. You know. They've got the calls back and forth with leadership beyond hopefulness or saying like we'd really like to see this in there or having your or humidity or whatever advocates for one thing or another. There are very few people who are actually on the phone negotiating this right. It's Mitch McConnell. Nancy Pelosi Steny Hoyer and you a handful. Mnuchin has been a big part of it but it's not really going down to the members much so you're giving this package and you have to decide whether to vote for it with all of its flaws and and ultimately. I think that that's why you saw me. I think what was it only AFC? That voted against it and I understand. I fully understand why she did. I'm Kinda glad she did. Because I think someone needs to be raising this points with issues of the legislation so now and I'm sorry I'm talking time please. That's why they hear us talk all the time. We're here to hear what you have to say. But so when this next piece is coming up the thing that I saw today or heard whatever Mitch McConnell say was I mean it it or I think it was. Hoyer who said that I mean basically it sounds like there signaling that there's going to be some kind of employer protection and at this point what. I would be the most concerned about and wanting to be work work and I'm sure. They are working with Labor on Labor. Unions on is like how on earth you can minimize that damage of trying to protect major employers from lawsuits. That result from the mishandling. How they're protecting workers as things that reopening the meatpacking plants for example. If you're providing unsafe working conditions how are you? What's the accountability? And that's the piece that would be most concerned about. Yeah that's very it's frustrating. Not Knowing very much about that just hearing this you know it is. It's so tricky because it feels like yes. There have been things that have been done for the average American for people. That are struggling. But it's not enough right and there seems to be a lot of breaks a lot of things protecting employers helping out big businesses and it's in meanwhile people can't pay rent also. There's almost no way to tell like what's actually going to help these groups that I don't think most people would say don't really need help when you you have companies that none of us would consider small businesses that tens of millions of dollars getting huge amounts back from the small business. Yeah like as my sister is a small business owner and so she's she's in a partnership like a LP or whatever and there's three people in it and it's her and two guys so she doesn't qualify for women owned small business stuff and she is. They haven't gotten anything and they're they're pretty successful small business but they've only would open for two years and it's a it's a tattoo and piercing studio and they haven't been able to get anything said. I think the when they were going with whoever it was. I don't remember I think it's SBA. They said that they were eligible for like a thousand dollars worth fighting that in my mom and dad who owned a small buildings where they're the only people that work there at for a for company in Los Angeles for thirty years. They were offered that as while they didn't qualify for anything for P. They were they didn't get an SBA. It was like a thousand dollars and they haven't been able to get and and and the process with everything is so fucking hard is so good medical and the systems constantly crashing. And nobody really knows what's going on. And then you hear things like the Los Angeles Lakers got millions of dollars Shake shack up millions of dollars. Ruth Chris Got Twenty Million Dollars from all business program and it's just increasing that these small businesses such as your sisters and my parents are moving the clutter now capital one knows. Life doesn't alert you about your credit card. That's why we created iino the capital one assistant. That looks out for surprise. Credit card charges like over tipping duplicate charges or potential fraud. Benson's an alert to your phone and helps if you need to fix them another way. Capital one is watching out for your money when you're not capital one. What's your wallet? See CAPITAL ONE DOT com for details an IT career at ddat means owning the opportunity to play a crucial role in transforming how agencies operate join. Ddat for challenging and impactful work that advance your career apply now at GD dot com slash careers opportunity players. The question is how as a week the language in the legal ease kind of surrounding all of these bills. Like the difference between what you might think based on what's proposed or how the bill is summarized and how it actually works is often quite significant in. Its because these these are being written by like like normal people. They're being written by lobbyists and and by like teams of folks who are attempting to like it. It's it's not like as a as a legislator. How do you try to figure out what you're actually voting for just in general this? Well I mean in general in this because it's that way with everything right. There's almost no other than like the odd time. There's a bill to honor the survivors of whatever like it's yeah no it's it's actually it's it's It was one of the most frustrating things I think for most of the new members coming in probably for for anybody. Who's coming in if you're if you're a new member no matter what time whether you're part of this new wave or not but you yet you you often have zero. Opportunity Lake Like these come out a thousand pages right and let's be real. The Congress people do not and never would and you don't want them to have to spend the time to read every bit of that right like so you know. They shouldn't be could criticized for not doing it. But that doesn't mean that that you're relying heavily on staff and and that cannot be your us as the person who ultimately takes the vote on it. Art You're not going to know everything you're GonNa have to trust that your staff flag do you on these major issues and so one perfect example is there a it ended up being you know we. We worked it out but there was. There was a bill where it was. It was a good bill otherwise it was actually a John Lewis Bill and there was a provision in it. That had been an old provisions that like he obviously was not aware of But it was snuck in there by tax but the tax preparation companies their lobbyists and it basically would have made it so that the irs could never create a free file system. That was that was its own automatic version as the ones that you get through it. You know h R. Blocker or whatever and so we fixed it like it was me and AFC PEOPLE KATIE QUARTER. That like put like a very last minute effort into being able to kind of like a make a provision. That would make it work. But that kind of thing how you like. It was just a random text that I got from my L. D. Who had gotten a text from his friend because of a PROPUBLICA article that we knew that this was happening. And I'm a I was a person that voting on right so it's just it's just weird. How these kinds of things happen and you can see like why? That's a form of governing night. Certainly did not figure out the the ultimate solution to it in the short time that I was there. I mean. That's a huge problem that I know how anybody figures out the solution to. I want to talk a little bit about healthcare You know you ran as a supporter of Medicare for all. I believe but many people still think that this term endangers our chances of of holding the house And yet the majority of Americans do support Medicare for all in some form of it and that support has strengthens the pandemic started. And I'm curious about your thoughts on this and curious also to know how your time in Congress and working with Democrats who disagreed with you Affected your position on this so I think it's a couple of things. The first is that I think the fear of of Medicare for all the fear of talking about Medicare for all is is over bloom by moderate. Democrats or I guess by the pundits who are saying that you can't win in these in these areas. If you talk Medicare for all I don I don't. I don't buy that for the same reason that you're talking about. Is that public opinion? Shows that people are not inherently opposed to the idea of Medicare for all now when you have adt after ad after ad that is talking about how that position is a socialist position in tying you with you know if you're in a swing district tying you with the squad or with whatever figure of the moment that Donald Trump is using as a as a as a scapegoat. I think then that's not an escape but as a villain I think that's why you have the the fear around Medicare for all right because it's such an easy term for people to grab onto and in it in districts that are often purple district's people who are employed in union jobs or in In jobs that are like they're they have decent or good employer health benefits and the thought of having to give that up for something that they compare with the va or with you know. Even even people who are on Medicare don't always think that their Medicare is not i. You know I don't know I don't know what the resistance is fully but I know that might think there's one answer it's different person person but yeah but in my district the way that I would talk about it. Is that like listen. I never I didn't want to get into the debate about what is Medicare for all. Because if you ask ten different people you're GONNA get ten different answers on what Medicare for all is unless you like isolate that to a group of people probably within this circle or you know the the twitter sphere that would give you a pretty consistent answer but among the general public. There's no way that you get a general a real meaningful policy answer on what? Medicare for all is so for me. It was more about the belief that this is the kind of healthcare that everybody should have universal access to and that it should not be attached to your employer. It should be you know. It shouldn't be something that you're dependent on because of that it should be. It should be you know truly something that people can count on and not a privilege. Shouldn't something that you have to make an economic decision on whether you're going to be able to pay your car insurance so your health insurance and and that obamacare just wasn't it was it was important and it was a huge step especially when you consider that we're having this debate even now but it was. It wasn't enough and we have to. We have to do a lot more so but the benefit is and. I think that this is the part that has a progressive. I I see more progress in then. I think you might be able to see from the outside is that I think every single person every single person that was coming from one of those districts was all in on a buy-in or in a public option and that was impossible ten years ago when See it was was happening. That was not even even a remote possibility. So you know that is big progress in I think if ultimately something can come out of this is that is a public option than. That's a huge win. So I guess. That's where the practicality part kind of meets the part of where we WANNA be yeah I think it's it's been a frustrating year for a lot of progressives You know feeling the momentum and the support of Medicare for all and then and. I think that. There's a lot of reasons why this happens. But you start to see political figures hedge a little bit changing the language of it and I think that a lot of it does factor into speaks to what you were just saying. You know. There's different messaging different districts you know and and you know there's a lot of fear that people you know who say that especially during a presidential primary season say that they are an advocate of Medicare for all but then maybe they kind of hedge their bets a little bit and it starts to a lot of us have a hard time trusting our politicians. So it's hard to trust that they mean what they're saying and now we have the probable nomination of Joe Biden As the nominee. Who is not an advocate of Medicare for all in has actually stated that he would veto it and I think a lot of people are are frustrated by that I'm not sure what the question is here with. That will give you just might general like you're not all of that would be great. I have so so what I would say is that you know. I don't remember the context in which Joe Biden said that he was going to veto it. Because what I can tell you with. Utter certainty is that no matter. Which president is there is an absolute zero chance that Medicare for all would make it to the president's desk in the next eight years but four? Maybe maybe in the next day. I think it's possible the next day depending on how things go but within the next four while And I think that the biggest reason for that is that you know an. I'll come back to the this other point in the second The the biggest reason for that is that even if we get control the Senate even if even if we get that you do not have we do not have big enough majorities of of Of people especially in the Senate that are going to be willing to go along with even you know even a very watered-down version of Medicare for all so I got really frustrated during the presidential debate that more of the candidates weren't being honest about this more of the candidates weren't just saying like okay. Well you can't. We're not going to get this like I know you know like you know. I've been a fan of various a huge fan of Elizabeth Warren. A I get them all but and I get the problem like with needing to inspire people but I also think that you are. You're setting people up for massive disappointment when the reality is that you were not going to be not just disappointment but distrust when you know. I know the each of those candidates knows full. Well that you're not gonNA be able to get through the House and the Senate and that's just how our democracy is right now so I always thought it was just very disingenuous to pretend even for a moment like like you I mean if we were all like Donald Trump and just kinda get ram everyone to go along Democrats blindly go along with whatever we wanted and there were enough of them then. Your maybe it's possible but that's just not not what it is so instead here's what we should do now. Here's what I think we can do. Now and here's what I can do from my position in the executive office without congressional legislation required then then that would be a much more compelling case that I would have liked to see made. Yeah I get that I frequently was. I was frustrated similarly In that like there's all this confusion circa circulating about and then people should be specific. Sale like here are the steps? Here's what we need. Here's the realistic approach to it You know I I will speak for some people that listened to us and colleagues as well that the other side of the coin is Medicare for all was not even something that registered in our minds as a possibility until we started talking about it as a thing that we can achieve and and and like you were saying stuff that was not possible. Ten years ago is more possible now and and so. That's a huge win in my book. Can I totally agree? Yeah keep balance And and I think that that is right like I don't. I'm not a I'm not somebody who says like we need to go for moderation or incremental. As I didn't run like that that's not my no. That's not my approach at all. I just think that You know and maybe maybe my my position on. That was kind of heightened once I got to Congress to because I did see how impossible something like something like you know how impossible the most basic things are let alone when we have the majority in the house. Let alone when you're talking about. Something is massive and sweeping as you know another round of healthcare reform that involves that involves something so sweeping to our system as Medicare for all so. I just think that like the real conversation that needs to be had is it and by the way the elections that need to happen or on on the congressional level anyway. Like if you WANNA move if you actually want to move the political will to get to Medicare for all or any really progressive policy than than those primary elections in the very blue districts are the ones that are going to move it. It's it's having people who who who are able to take those risky supposedly receive the only people who can do. It are the ones from the very blue areas and if you're electing a moderate Democrat Nazeri areas then you're just not going to get and the only way that those changeovers if people show up and get involved in a very strong political powerhouse that is that supports incumbent staying in the fun even just voter complacency as much as it is money or anything else. So you stop Yeah it's the Albany Shen so you've mentioned a couple of times about things. Being difficult in Congress had getting stuff done and the reality being different from from the expectations in in many ways or from what we see as as outsiders and I'm curious to know more about your experiences there You know I guess working with Republicans who we'll I'll say this. I'm not going to say the name of A colleague but I did once have an interaction with one of your democratic colleagues and they mentioned that behind the the curtains many Republican representatives behaved very differently than what we see publicly. You know people would pass in the hallway and say thank you and that in that frustrated me in many ways completely differently like completely differently now. That's not to say that. Their policy positions changed nightclubs doors. I wouldn't say that that happened. But you're certainly there's A. There's a level of civility in you. Know certainly not across the board but within your committees. I think that you you often get to know people across the other you know across the aisle like but it totally depends on the person right like there they're probably well over one hundred and fifty. Republicans that I never. I could never identify who they were like they were. They were all old white man. I can tell you that much and probably at least fifty fifty bills or something like that but You know they they were you know I. I didn't get to know all of them by any stretch of the imagination. But and frankly like you the more you're there the less inclined yard even want to try because this the stunts they pull or just so ridiculous like I had was actually a year ago. I was on armed services and so we were negotiating and I know you guys probably have a lot to about this but the defense authorization and we just had like. We spent so much effort on the democratic side to get some basic winds right like some. Some mild wins to that. Democrats have been wanting for years like basic changes to funding Guantanamo and like things that should not have even been controversial not increasing nuclear supply. Like like these are. These are things that are so obvious basic and and they did it in a way that you know the leadership on the committee in a way that should have made it possible for there to be. At least some bipartisan support. And it was just like it. It was the only person. Oddly who voted with Democrats on it was the least ovonic and that was before she took her turn towards Republicans. But I remember that night because you say like twenty four hours doing this like you literally earned committee all night and I the next day you have to come into vote at the normal time so it's like nine. Am and I got like literally an hour of sleep. I think and I was laying on the couch in the In the back of the you know cloakroom where basically members hang out waiting to vote and stuff like that and I remember sitting and talking to Tony Cardenas. And I'm just like this. This is it you you just can't work with. Republicans just have to vote them all out like that's the only yeah. I I'd I'd run as somebody who was like we. Can you know we should work together and run? I was like we're not going to be able to work with them. They're just we. We are going to have to outnumber them in such a way that. Yeah Yeah I mean. That's that's where I've been for a while just as like and this is like. There's so much anger on the left that I feel is really understandable with how like there will be all of this this talk about how unacceptable things the administration is doing and then stuff like. We'll pass another defense authorization bill That includes like the funding for our government to continue things like it's massively escalated a drone strike campaigns. And that like I. I feel like there's this this frustration. I definitely feel this restoration that The Republicans are always willing to play hardball and Really Exercise Power Which is why they get what they want. Most of the time in on the Democratic side there is this love of compromise and bipartisanship that I feel like goes. It doesn't work era. Yeah yeah well I think I think it's that's part of it. I do think that. Republicans are are willing to play hardball in a way that the Democrats aren't and but I also think that it's easier for them because they they are just the party of no right like they don't want to give anyone anything they don't want to. You know what I mean like. They don't WANNA raise taxes. They don't WanNa make any reforms to anything unless it's reducing regulation like it's just no it's very easy to vote no and you don't. I think what we're trying to accomplish. His Democrats Speaker Pelosi always refers to us as the big tent party like she just something she says almost every single week. And it's true. It's like if you're a Republican you're in a very you're representing a very narrow set of us but if you're a Democrat you are you're representing a huge range and and so it's hard to get like a whole segment of people that can solidify around like this is the one thing that we're protesting and we're gonNA vote as a bloc around like the tea party is like they just Mark Meadows and they lake stayed solidly as blocked because they were just like nope. We're GONNA we don't want any of this stuff unless we get everything that we want. And it didn't matter because passing anything didn't really matter to them so I just think it's a IT'S A. It's a difficult comparison because we actually care about getting things done and and I think also were much more compassionate to the consequences of playing hardball and the consequences on real people. Right like the government shutdown it. You know if that's what you're holding over the heads of you know that's your tool right like that's that's the only tool when you're saying we're GONNA hold up the defense authorization is that you're you're saying you're GonNa shut down the military is that's A. That's a very different proposition. When you're when you're there you you realize exactly how many people that's going to hurt and how and And the implications of it that you know you wouldn't be as tune into otherwise pivot a little bit. Twenty seventeen was proclaimed the year of the women because Historic number of women ran and won a house elections and now and twenty twenty. We're seeing even more women running. Which is very exciting You know and I'm sure that a lot of our listeners of also mold that decision whether to run for office someday I. I think that we would love to hear about your experiences campaigning. As a first time candidate. How you made that decision to run So I was never planning on becoming a politician and I think that that's why you know it's not this like the tragedy of the last year for me. Hasn't been the fact that. I'm no longer in power or in politics. That was never my intention to begin with what we're doing before you you ran so I was running the largest homeless services organization. It right on Ya. That's right half and and so you know their job has just expanded massively over the last even since left in the last three three. God I can't even believe it's only three years ago but I that my reason for running came from you know basically trump winning in me saying like I know how I working on homelessness for my almost my entire career was you see all of the different systems. How broken they are and how much needs to be fixed and and how disastrous the consequences can be you know when particularly we had a Republican House and Senate and then trump elected when I was when we were seeing that the funding was gonna get slashed for all the programs that mattered the most when they wanted to kick people off of benefits and undermine every single aspect of people who are marginalized the most in the services that were able to provide for them. That was what that was. What kicked it off for me. That was why I was like okay. I'm going to get involved at least somehow in flipping the house. I have to that I found out that my district was one of the key districts were Hillary had won and we needed to flip it to flip the house and one thing led to another and I basically there was a guy running a white guy running who was the one that had run and lost even when Hillary one and I just knowing my district. I just knew he couldn't win and and I said you know I. I was complaining to some other. People who'd been mobilized right or activated at this is this is around February of two thousand seventeen and we need to find somebody who can run and actually win. And then one of my friends and mentors said to me. She's like Katie. You just listed off like a Su- of characteristics like why don't you? Why don't you run and I mean my initial reaction was like dude. I have a life. I've got baggage. I've got like you I wanNA to do this. And this wasn't my plan and but then I was like fuck. Donald trump is president. I'm going to do it right. And and we built this like crazy grassroots campaign and and. I don't regret it for a second. I regret the outcome and I regret the stuff that you know. I did that contributed to that but I don't regret it for a second night. Eat I think the I went from becoming from this rising star. The success story. Whatever you WANNA call it to like a cautionary tale and but I think what's important is that I'm still saying that even knowing the outcome even if it had been from the very beginning someone whispered in my ear that this is. This is how it's all going to end. I still would have done it and And I think people women need to across the ad that as my book. Yes yes You she has book. She's just working on coming out later. This summer Yeah I I actually want circle back to path in a minute but I W- I wanNA touch on you know you you you say like I have a past and I think that is a fear for a lot of people like well. I've got stuff I am not proud of. I'm not a perfect person and I don't know that means that I'm disqualified from doing this and and what happened to you is case. In point a thing that people would be afraid of Avenue. Them among us doesn't have something that that you know can be skewed in some sort of a way right and so that's why. I think that was saying right. Now is so important and valuable to me anyway. of you would have done it anyway. Yeah I mean I guess I you know I have young women who are thinking about I just last week. Kind of keynote zoom keynote. For of yeah like I'd given the in Person Keno last year and they. They asked me to do it again this year. As you guys know what happened between then and now right and and they. They said Yeah. They wanted me to any weight. I was like okay but but what I say is that like. I wish I had something better to say about the solution. But the solution in the immediate is that like you have to be willing to know that. That's the worst that can happen and still be willing to do it. And that takes. That takes a hell of a lot of courage and and what what it also means is that we as voters as human beings. I think need to to start being much more compassionate to that and knowing that people and having a real dialogue about and God knows I want to know the answer when people do make mistakes. What what is what is redemption. Look like how do you come back from that? How does an and maybe it means that all right you you screwed up enough that you don't belong in a position of of of government or elected office anymore and if so that's the net that's what it is but. I think that that question is one that we're going to have to grapple with not just for politicians but for for people across the board and I listen to a podcast a lot with the Tara Reid story and Yeah I guess she is in general. I just think it's something that we were going to have to have some serious conversations about you know there's and there's there's a level of this is due to how much information is out there and it's the same kind of thing you see every time like Every time a black man is killed by police or by like what happened with a at Arbor where a lot of people have things in their life. That don't look great and they're still fine people but if you dig through for like the worst moments of the lowest moments or the the the biggest mistakes in someone's life and all anyone is getting is either like you. There's no context. I guess you just get a selection of like the worst things in someone's life if that's what you want to present who the best things in someone's life if that's what you WanNa present and I do think that there's kind of a real problem I don't know it's Copley. There's definitely a problem. Democrats have as being the only one of the two parties. That's actually a a beholden to any of that like anti for moral failings of their pasts. America's it's not a thing that Republicans have to shed more now like do not give a you know what I mean like proudly crowd. Yeah and it's one of those things where I'm not. I don't WANNA BE THE. I don't want to be suggesting like well then. We shouldn't have standards moral standards. Either because that's not the right way to do it but also being the only one fighting with the hand behind your back is in like well needs to be figured out mine. Mine is the example right because of the moral standards that we have because I and I believe in him right. I'm like okay I saw I fucked up and like this is. This is what it means. I'm going to step aside and somebody else like that. That's the right thing to do if this is the standard that ruling ourselves. That's the right thing to do. And and then this is what happened so you know what does that mean. I N I heard I heard you talking about like What if what if Biden Mood? Step aside right and and I kind of chuckled to myself my wall. I did but I I don't know so. Yeah it's it's a fascinating conversation that we clearly don't have the answer to but will continue to have and endure right. There's GonNa be there has to be some way for us to to to grapple with this I I mentioned wanting to circle back to path Just briefly because I'm curious if you've continued to do any work with with homeless advocacy. Or what they're doing if there's stuff has changed because of coronavirus and what kind of things they're doing to to counteract the effect on. Yeah I mean the the the homeless services community. I'm still in touch with them. And especially with path and a couple the other agencies I got in touch with them early on during the you know as things were really starting to kind of heighten during the pandemic and if they're really on the front lines because if this if this pandemic had swept through the homeless through the homeless population like everything could have just gotten massively escalated in California and the fact that that the governor took the precautions that he did and put the measures in place in the city of La did specifically within the homeless services community like that was hugely important and the providers who had to pick up a lot of you know a extra costs including I mean and and paying people like literally having to pay people tons of extra money to continue working through it. Because you know that's the right thing to do and it's it's about as dangerous of a frontline position as working in hospital no. I shouldn't say that but it's it's very high risk right and and so it's just it's a ton of extra incurred costs am for the organizations that are front loaded and these are nonprofits and philanthropy has diminished massively right because people who are normally the biggest philanthropist including corporations are cutting all of that off. Now maybe we're seeing this uptick in the view the Dow. And perhaps that'll start to to turn up again but What yeah I think. The biggest thing is that there's a lot of great stuff that's being done and if it hadn't have if it hadn't been done the California has done among the best of all of the States in terms of how mitigated the the disease has been and I really think that a lot of that started at you know at the efforts to homelessness bubbles. You know what I mean. Yeah Yeah I'm comparatively proud of the west coast in general. We just in Portland became. We were the very first and I still are the only Us city to vote about whether or not to institute a Wealth Tax in order to pay for more a homeless shelters and services And it was a bill. The bill was proposed prior to Covid nineteen heading. But we we voted on it just like a week ago and it passed it passed pretty overwhelmingly wealth tax on businesses over. I think a certain size and people making more than one hundred twenty five thousand dollars a year to pay for more homeless services and it it passed and I hope that that's like a sign of where things are going in the future like the the the one of the things. That's so frustrating about this. Exact moment is that we can look at things like Like your seat being won back by a Republican Which Republicans are obviously saying is like evidence that now we're going to have red wave Or you can look at. You know there's just as many things that you can look at. That suggest that like no. We're in for like a pretty a pretty significant democratic sweep at least in the House and Senate in this next election. Nobody really knows what's going to happen. So we're stuck in this period of like helplessness. Like it feels helpless The only thing I can think to suggest to people in this period is to try to do you know get in in and change things. That's really the long-term socially regardless of what you think of of the system or think of the Democratic Party The only way to actually make things better is to get into positions. We are able to exercise power and exercise power effectively. Because that's just system. We live in except that yeah. I mean one hundred percent and most of the time that's going to happen locally for you right. I like the federal federal government gets all the attention but most often the biggest impact you see is from local governments and and and sake up from and so I think that hopefully the civics lesson that starts to happen from this is that you know if you want systemic change it has to build upwards. It's not going to start from the top down right like in. And that's from local district by district neighborhood councils too city councils to county supervisor state elections waterboard even and then and then congressional districts in Congressional districts are. What's GonNa Rebuild Congress to look like what we wanted to look like so that we can do things like pass? Medicare for all you know getting people like ABC Presley elected and people who who are in that more progressive wave is. That's that's what's GonNa happen whether it's through you know. People retiring and attrition just generally are flipping seats. It doesn't really matter like that's that's how it has to happen. It's not going to happen from electing any president even if it was the most Progressive President. We could have gotten yeah. It's the same. There's all this focus on national politics but also like if you elect if you elect a sheriff If you elect a mayor who can change you. The chief of police is in a lot of American cities Because just because everybody's especially today given the news that's this week. Everybody's really focused on police violence again. Which always should be. If you want to change those things you can change them like there is like like when you're at the national level in Congress. There's so much it's so complicated so hard to make real changes but at that level if you get in a new sheriff get an a new mayor. There's huge immediate ways you can change. Lives everyone who lives around you Yeah you're not going to get you're not GONNA GET FEDERAL POLICY. That makes a you can get some executive orders on police brutality that. I can actually make a big difference pretty quickly I think but legislation on it man. That'll be that'll be. That'll be tough. But at the local level that can happen overnight. Virtually so you know literally with the change that happens with an election or you know action of a city council And I think that that's that is something that people really need to to be focused on. Yeah also in in this lull these next few months in which were trying to figure out what what life during a pandemic looks like because we have a a period now but as we're coming into November when people are going to be voting again that could be very well the next major surge We as Democrats in particular. Have to figure out what we're going to do as far as field goes. I do not think we're going to be able to win. If we don't have an adopted field strategy in pretty much anywhere. I know lots of smart people are working on that but There's GonNa be something that is that is like well Implemented a kind of across the board for two to have not necessarily even persuasive conversations. But just getting people to know what's on the to be able to vote And even know how to vote right like it may not even be a matter of of telling them. Gee there's this really important election but it's it's telling them like here's what has to happen for you to be able to vote because it's different. It's more difficult now right and we don't have much time between down it's like it's over. It's it's just months away so my nerves around it. Is You know. We can't just sit here behind our computer screens and expect to be able to solve all that And I don't know you know I think people really need to be mobilizing and getting ready to go and and I just I think each campaign is going to have to figure that out differently but yeah yeah it's going to much like everything else about this very specific to the region Iheartradio and state farm knows that the graduation stage is the first of many and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send-off they've always dreamed of with our new podcast. Commencement featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend. I'm honored to have the chance to speak to to share in this special moment. Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience Chelsea Handler. Tara to do things that scare you if you can embrace the unknown and fully jump into what life has to offer you. There won't be much to celebrate and much to enjoy and cash reflect on the work you've done and celebrate moving into your new face these iconic names all coming together to celebrate you. The class of two thousand twenty listened iheartradio's new podcast. Commencement brought to you. By state. Farm speeches are now available on iheartradio APP. Or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember state farm will be there for this stage and every stage after like a good neighbor state farm. Is there after all you've been through? The class of two thousand twenty deserves a proper sendoff which is why Iheartradio and Doritos brings you. Commencement the podcast featuring speeches and dedications icons we admire most here from Halsey kids. We've shown the world while we can be sold a lot of things we will never buy a dream and pit bull generation stand up. You guys are generation. Make a difference. You guys generation go change the world tacky g John Legend Kesse Angie Martinez Khalid and many many more all have something to say to you. The amazing class of twenty twenty so choose firm choose willfully and choose confidently listened to radios new podcast. Commencement now on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get podcasts. With a special DORITOS Valedictorian episode. Where Doritos takes graduation? Speeches to another level by naming five Valedictorians giving them each fifty thousand dollars in tuition assistance and sharing their speeches with the world. You are the ones that's GonNa make a difference. Oh I wanted to talk a little bit about what's next for you And and the different projects that you are working on I know you had mentioned her time. If you wanted to explain a little bit about that sure so Her time is the pack that I started when I resigned. I had money that was in my reelection campaign that you are basically you have to do something with and I was able to convert it into a pack and then start raising money into that. Pack to support specifically women and young women more of the the progressive in Longshot candidates. The ones that you know my I think my endorsement in her time would come in before often before emily's list or before some of the the more kind of The the bigger endorsers the more established organizations to to just give that extra boost to try help. I mean it is. It is really really hard if you look at the number of of women candidates who ran versus the number of women candidates who won especially when in primaries. The numbers aren't great. They they still have. We still have a long way to go and in my in my book like I'm one of those people. I say that we should vote for a woman just because she's a woman and I know that that's a that's a controversial perspective even among even among liberals but I think we really should be voting for women because there no that that doesn't that doesn't mean like you have a totally unqualified like crazy person as you know versus a competent but but it does mean like if you have two equally competent people right. I think you should pick the woman because we have to balance out power and in a major way so actually just talked myself off of what I was even supposed to be answering out your curious about her time. Yeah Arabia what I'm curious about is is and I the I know the actually answer. This is longer than you can give here but for people who are thinking about getting involved in politics and starting a campaign at some point in the next couple of years. You've done that. You've gone from no no political background to creating a really successful fundraising Cam Machine and also release successful campaign that got you elected how do you how do you do that? Because I think there's a lot of people who were just like sitting at home thinking like okay. Well I think maybe I could. I could get involved in or I could try to run for something. It's it's it feels like kind of an insurmountable obstacle. Yeah it isn't but yeah like what is what is the advice you can give you know without the teaching like a six hour class on how to sure what forms you have to file stuff. Yeah yeah the first. The first pieces of advice. And I'm assuming that anybody who's listening to your podcasts is either a Democrat or so progressive. They don't even consider themselves. Democrats where that's fair that I think that they that the one place that I would say that you could probably have the biggest impact end and ability to to start your I don't know Started figuring out if you want to run for something setting the learn how to campaign starting to look like what that political world or even the just like what you would have to do is to get involved with your local Democratic Party and that sounds like. Have you guys been involved with local democratic parties? Now like DEM clubs okay. Well like I feel like everyone needs to have that assignment and not just more guys. But I'm just saying like everybody who wants like if you're combining about the Democratic Party if you've ever once said I wish the Democratic Party did X. you're you are the Democratic Party. We are the Democratic Party. There's no there. We don't have a person in charge. There's not there is nothing for us and so every single person is justice able to go and get involved. It's operated by these clubs. These Democratic Clubs. Which are like a very odd institution and I like the only way that the Democratic Party changes it changes through these clubs and they're very progressive but they're they're not always well managed or well run very effective and. I think that you know. I don't know who's going to do this book but how how you can actually transform that existing apparatus into one where this new this new activist space can can plug into and what that means for the National Democratic Party That's where I would say. Start and then and then that is where you kind of start finding like okay get ear democratic. Your Democratic Club will know what the local positions are. That are GONNA be coming up in. Who's in play like? What the the very specific there are always local politics and and I think that that's like the number one place to start but but it's it is not necessarily an appealing place to start Ryan. I feel such frustration over. I'm stuck into is because I. I don't identify as a Democrat. I voted for them in the past. Because it's as close as I can get usually but I I'm I'm very frustrated and I have a lot of ethical issues actually with the number of of Democratic Party Points like a number of like kind of mainline Democratic Party beliefs but I also had the experience of growing up In the South as the child of a very conservative family and watching all this stuff that when I was twelve thirteen my parents would be like these people are just on the fringe. They're nuts They're never going to be a major factor in the Republican Party. Like this doesn't actually represent us and I watched those people very methodically takeover. The Republican Party in an extremely effective way. And they're getting everything they want so it is like yeah I I. There's the part of me that is just like angry about politics. All the time wants to say to hell with the Democratic Party. Point all these list of failures but I do think like I I watched it happen on the right and I a the only reason the only thing that would stop it from happening on the left is a lack of willingness to put in the decades of frustration and compromise that it would take. There's an argument to me that we don't have that time anymore. I don't know that's not. I don't think you can give an answer to that just and I do think though that like it is worth comparing And I think Bernie Sanders in the enthusiasm that his campaign started in two thousand sixteen has a tremendous amount to do with this. Is that the Party itself in the party platform. Like if you compare twenty twenty sixteen or the twenty th successively that the the twenty twelve to the two thousand sixteen to Twenty Twenty party platforms like they are massively more progressive and And even what? Let's take Joe Biden for example has had to cut of commit to a promise to throughout the course of this campaign has pushed it bar further to the left than that. I think most people would have ever expected him to go or for the. You know the the democratic establishment moderate to go. And I think that you know it is because People Bernie activist Scott involved in the Democratic Party and hopefully I think a lot of them are staying involved in. I don't know but yeah I. It really does have to start at that level. It is changing. It doesn't mean that it's But I actually would say that the the successes that have been had their in the last few years on the Democratic Party platform especially are are massive. In and should there should be they should they? We really should credit that to the senators. Yeah Mobilization and And to lessen that can be learned. And if we want to continue that progress than that's that's what it means but it also means like okay you can take over the Democratic Party apparatus with the local clubs in the DNC and everything like that but It only it only matters if you can also make it effective. So that's what we need. An infusion of as well as not just people who are angry about things but people who who are committed to figuring out how to actually get elected. I actually find that I. That's both frustrating and inspiring to me You know the same way. We just talked about getting involved in local levels. Like you have to start that way. You know address the things that are in your community I that is demystifying to me in a way in terms of the Democratic Party. Like you can't even if it is unpalatable for some of us and that is something for us to consider but if you if we can your infuse some of our beliefs into at the local level and start to climb our way up that way again. It feels daunting because there's so much work to be done but also that feels like something I can do yet. Yeah and that. And if you bring in a friends like right who were also can would consider themselves. WanNa to change the party or who want to change. You know things in general then like suddenly the Democratic Clubs They've actually become something better than they are now but it takes. It takes the numbers of people being willing to do it and Moat what I have learned over the course of campaigning. Is that getting people to to actually do something as opposed to just talk about doing something is like that's the that's the catalysts that you need to figure out and you know. I think that we were. We were really fortunate with the time with with being twenty eighteen. And how you know the the the fact that people are so frustrated over the twenty sixteen results mobilize people in the proximity the district in the kind candidate. I was like all those things added up to make it so that people were actually showing up like we had five thousand volunteers. Show up just for get out the vote And that was a lot of people in swing. Districts had the same thing because of how energized people were but but what Republicans have been able to do that we have not is sustain their track record with voting sustain their their organizing I mean Republicans. Even though my district is my former district is a d plus five at this point in a in a in a general election year even maybe higher at this point because of new registrations. It's all of the local cities except for one are entirely run by Republicans entirely while and that's because they're good at local elections. They do it they put in they put in the. You know the time and I don't even know what it is but it's it's just something that we have not been as good at it might be because of of what comprises our electorate including people who have like you know time constraints and can't afford childcare and have to work multiple jobs and things like that and also were young and and when you're older you can yeah you can be much more involved in local politics but it's something we're going to have to figure out is is how to to change over this kind of control to yeah racially. Yeah totally I think it does have to do with what you were saying before. The the Democrats are big tent party and we have a lot of different people here. Who are there for different reasons and Republican messaging is a bit more straightforward perhaps Well that's what I I have. Those are all the questions I have. Do you guys have anything else? You want to chime in no Or anything else that you would like to touch on Katie today. I that's I think that's it. I didn't really have an agenda necessarily so no but I you know I guess those are the biggest things are just like. I hope that my the special election for the twenty fifth was Can Be used as I hope that there's a case. Study that come soon and that it can be used as a as a lesson for November naughty an emmy just because we have to figure out this new reality and what what elections are going to look like in November. Yeah absolutely will. We would love to have you back later on when when your your book comes out and we can talk more about that stuff and about how. The election is shaping up at that point Yeah but listeners. We grateful for your time. Today specifically will follow. It will let me know no hard pass. Yes yes if there's anything about your story That people should take away. It's that running for office is a simple decision with no consequences and it's easy and not frustrating once. You're totally totally. Yeah I guess that was. Perhaps not the most persuasive little podcasts. On why you should run from but I need it for talks but police do be a you know a good American citizen and run for office. I guess all right thanks Katie. Have a great day. Thank you have a good one boy? Howdy the me one. A run for office the thing that has no consequences to your personal life double standard at all. I'm running now at least four or five standards. Yeah there's a quad. I really appreciate it that conversation. And and despite all of those cautionary tales that we just heard I think it's it's it's energizing for me personally. This clubs yeah. Let's let's go I don't know I don't know what to do but I'm grateful to Katie for time. You don't have to decide right away with with your time but you've absorbed for Marion and let it percolate. You know well if you earn you can run for political office. You can burn down the mayor's house. There's no way to know which of those will wind up having worse consequences. That's actually what I got out of the interview to that. She's burning down the house. I hope she stopped the episode at this point. All right listen between. You have to listen to the words. She doesn't say jazz burning down the mayor. Exactly that's what you should take this episode. Thank you I was really proud of us for keeping this all on the rails today and I'm glad to see that right at the end we still manage to go off of them. That's what the years four years not for rails Katie. I'm sorry yeah go out there and be the miles Davis of burning down. The mayor's house I mean that's are called actions. You guys can fall Katie Hill on twitter. Katie Hill up the number four C. A you can follow us on twitter and instagram. At worst your pod you can follow. Katie stole at Giddy stole. You can fall cody at Dr. Mr Cody you can follow Robert. Only on twitter at I right. Okay just okay not anything else. You can find your mayor's house in the center of town. Whatever building is on the center of town? That's mayor's legally matter what it says on the Mailbox. If someone comes out like wait wait. I'm not saying mayor. This is a walgreens. Yeah like the mayor's saw Daniel lovely worst year ever is a production of iheartradio for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows a golden is a new podcast about the hundreds of women who have gone missing and turn up murdered just a mile from El Paso Texas. The crimes are unsold and extreme. The number started to rise and then a lot of theories were floated off the gangs. The serial murderer the cartels organ traffickers. The possibility of some sort of strange devil worship. It's been fifteen years since I first heard about these murders and I've been haunted ever since. How is it possible? Crimes remain unsolved. Join US journey to understand the conspiracy and culprits behind this horror story. How these crimes remained on sold for more than thirty years. And who is responsible? Find forgotten on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Coming June first. Some podcasts are light and fun and fluffy my podcast. Isn't I mean unless you'd think a podcast about a teenager? Picking up dead bodies for a living is light and fluffy this much up. A funeral. Home is killing me. My name is grant and these are my funeral home stories. Listen to season three of my funeral home stories on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Is Banning QAnon From Facebook Good And Is Katie Hill Bad?

Blocked and Reported

57:17 min | 3 months ago

Is Banning QAnon From Facebook Good And Is Katie Hill Bad?

"What is going on Katie Tipaza? Hey. Jesse. I. Didn't realize you were bilingual see. I had a sort of unfortunate incident yesterday. Can I tell you about this? Absolutely not all right. Well, I'm going to anyway I'm going to violate your consent and do it anyway. So I'm a next week, I'm going to visit my family in North Carolina for a week and we've really sort of struggled with whether. This is a good idea or not because you know like my parents don't like me that much. But I haven't seen him in a long time and they're getting older and you know like, I just don't think that I'm not hopeful that. The covid situation is going to be any better a year from now or two years from now three years from now, and so it's like, why wait you know like why? Not Like I can't go five years without seeing my parents it's like it's time to go and it would be better to do it now when we can at least be it outside a little bit than to do it in like December when we're all like huddled outside under a heat lamp or something. So I'm going to go to North Carolina this week next week but I before I go my dad wanted me to get Cova test and the rule is like if I don't the COVID I can't come in the house and I don't want to spend a week sleeping in the yard. So yesterday I went to get Kobe test but where I live There's no way to go get a Kobe test. You can't like say I'm going to visit my parents. I'm getting on an airplane I would like test. You will either have to have symptoms or you have to have an exposure before you can get a code test. This isn't true in Seattle. There are some like dry locations where you can just show up and do it but where I live, it's just like way harder to get a Kobe dust even for my wife who's a nurse and has been has had Kobe exposure it's been hard for her to get a Kobe test. Not. A great system. So I found a place yesterday an urgent care. Like thirty minutes from my house that would give me a Kobe test but the rule is that you have to have symptoms. So I went yesterday and I already said this on twitter. So I apologize to everybody who will be hearing this for the second time but I went yesterday to get the Kobe test and I needed to have symptoms in order to get the. Kobe. Test if they asked, they asked me if I was having symptoms i. said that I was. And they asked me what and I said well, I've had a headache which is sort of true I'd had a headache like a week ago and and that my throat hurt. And so. Unfortunately. Their response I, they took it very seriously. This nurse took me back into a room and she was wearing an in ninety five and a surgical mask. She was double mass. You had her hair hair up she's wearing. Glasses and a full face shield gloves. She seemed very nervous to be around me which I understand because I told her that I might have covid. and. They want to do full inspection. They didn't want to just do the Kobe test. So when I told him that my throat her they insisted on giving me of fucking strep test a throat swab. So they stick that that thing down your throat, this is going to be very good for the blocked and reported no context. Go ahead. Yeah. So they stick that thing that stick thing big cute up down your throat. So I didn't have a sore throat until they gave me the throat swab. So they they insisted on giving me a strep test instead of the Cova test and so I left with a sore throat and no cova tugged anyway I. Code I definitely don't have strep throat, but I will be paying for the throat culture and now my throat, it does have a little bit of a tingle in it. So the lesson here folks crime doesn't pay in New York it's really easy to get them. I mean, that's the first of all. That's weird that in some places, it's so much easier than others in New York. There's there's a lot of options and I people said, it was really uncomfortable to have that thing stock up your nose. I don't think it's that bad like in the grand scheme of things and the the benefit of getting tested people should stop whining have you had one had a bunch I mean I it because I've gone back and forth between Boston little bit similar about my parents yeah. There's an instant one I they didn't charge me so I guess my insurance covers the. City also has like sites I'll over we can get them for Free New York does you know it's a big city with a lot of people without resources? So it has good social services is by some metrics. I'm just in a small city with people without resources. So you know nothing going on nothing going on here you gotTa lie if you WANNA get healthcare. I also tried to get a flu shot yesterday and wasn't able to do that because my walgreens doesn't take my insurance is gonNa cost me sixty dollars to get a fucking blue shot somewhat speaking of medical conditions. You you made a joke in one of our reason podcasts about not having nipples and. Joke a joke. Someone of the sub it produce some very disturbing like fan art it was sort of a photo but altered so. I guess what I'm saying is don't. Let anyone. I saw this photo and I gotta say the breasts that they that they photo shopped on. Me were much larger than the actual ones. The nipples were right the nonexistent nibbles but the the breast, which is way bigger. Just I've been going to say like all the fan art about me I'm totally flat which I really don't appreciate. All Right Jesse, what podcasts are we recording right now. This is blocked reported Jesse single, and I'm Katie Herzog and today, what are we talking about today? We're GONNA talk about facebook's decision to ban talk of the on conspiracy theory and whether that's a good thing whether there are free speech implications all that good stuff before that, we are going to talk about Katie Hill Jesse do you remember Katie Hill and she like Kate Bush the singer same theory? Yes. Just arcades are the same. So Katie Hill was a she is currently believe thirty three years old. She was elected to California California House. In two thousand eighteen. She was elected to the house from California. She's a California representative elected in two thousand eighteen in the wave of that historic freshman class that included people like AFC. So She did not unfortunately for her last long in the house. So a year after her election, the conservative blog, red state publish incriminating photos some new. Then text showing alleging that Katie Hill had been involved in a triple with her husband longtime husband and a legislative aide twenty, two year old legislative eight. The legislative aide was not names she was female and the photos were did you look at the pictures? Of them kissing I didn't WANNA. Look at any of the actual nude photos because I'm a good guy. Yeah. So there were photos that were sort of G. rated sort of soft porn, and then there is one particularly embarrassing photo where she's topless holding a bong presumably was in California so not illegal just embarrassing. And so she says that she has maintained that her husband her aggrieved and she says abusive ex-husband whose name is Kenny House up. Leak these two to two. Red State. But that's not all that happen. So during the course of this of this scandal it, her husband alleged that she was. The three of them had been in a consensual romantic relationship with this legislative aid. But he says that she essentially broke up with both of them to have an affair with her then financial director, a guy named Graham Kelly and so that would be a violation of health ethics rules because after the me too movement I, believe this was after the me too movement not not proceeding. After the Metoo Movement and the House instituted some some rules of conduct and one of those rules was you're not allowed to sleep people on the payroll so she had to alleged alleged. Account of sleeping with people on the payroll. The first, the twenty, th year, old legislative aid, and then Graham Kelly, the financial director. So she has maintained that the affair with with Graham Kelly didn't happen, but the house decided to initiate a probe into her conduct before that happened she quit and she said in her resignation letter. She blamed a quote misogynistic culture that gleefully consumed naked pictures capitalized on my sexuality and enabled my abusive to continued that abuse this time with the entire country watching. So fast forward to August of this year she has a book a memoir. Coming. Out. And it turns out that as of this week, it was announced that that book was going to be turned into a bio pic starring. Kate. Moss, that'd be a different movie entirely starring Elisabeth Moss So. Things are looking out for Katie Hill, and then on October six. So we are recording this episode on October eighth. So two days ago after announced that Elizabeth Moss will be starring in the picture of her life the Rep Katie Hill twitter account, which still exists blue checkmark, all a congressional portrait and all. Releases a ten part twitter thread. Jesse, I'm going to read you a couple of these tweets Katie's former staff here disappointed in. So many folks including Elizabeth Moss and then tags the Blue House production company and Michael's sites men who's the show runner regarding today's announcement. This is an incredibly sensitive situation. We appreciate the instinct to defend our former boss and LGBT plus woman who face abuse from her husband. What happened to Katie Hill shouldn't have anyone but this moment requires more nuance as Katie Hill Story. Our story is also one of workplace abuse and harassment. Katie, Hill can be both a victim and perpetrator and staff can experience severe consequences for speaking out against their powerful boss. One should have to put themselves in harm's way for the public to understand as simple truth Katie hill is not a hero for women. We deserve heroes who embody our values even in the most difficult moments. Katie. Hill was never investigated by the House Ethics Committee nor has she been held accountable by anyone other than ourselves we encourage everyone to reflect deeply before taking her word at face value. It goes on. It claims that she took advantage of her her subordinates. She cause immense harm to the people who work for her. At finishes, with. Enough is enough in order to advance the me too movement we must be willing to acknowledge the problematic behaviors among those in our own communities only then will we see true progress Hashtag time's up Hashtag me to. Go and on their lot going on there. So we don't know who Who has the keys to representative Kay former representative Katie Hill, former twitter account, but the REP herself. She also took to twitter and she defended herself. So I'M GONNA I'm GonNa read you respond to this just say this fits into my belief that all of these sorts of issues should be litigated only on twitter. Absolutely. Let's just get rid of as ethics committee and just turned it twitter entirely. Okay. So this is her response. Thanks to all, who let me know my government official twitter account was hacked control on my account was immediately handed back to the house cleric when I resigned including password changes and access restrictions. God knows it from there reported to twitter regardless of their author. The content of the Hack tweets is something I have talked about at length in my book and podcast and countless interviews regarding my decision to resign as well as the constant work in reflection I've done since then I look forward to continuing to have conversations around these issues and using my platform to support women in any way. Possible. I question does this count is a hack? That's a good question. I guess, technically, if someone gets your password without your consent, you were hacked I'm okay with that but he's not her account anymore. That's true. What would they should have had access to it right? Well, we don't know I mean we don't know who posted this. It could be that the IRS were given access to accounts I don't know what happens to staffers after. Do. You know the answer to that. Is like an ancient Egypt they're just sort of burying alive. There buried with Katya the. Career. But she said, but she said in the thing that password was changed when she had to the account back. So that's suggestive staffers should still have access to it anyway. So we don't know who did this. We don't know if this were actual Katie Hill staffers or these are just like people on the hill someone who works in works in government who decided to take this opportunity to to like throw a wrench in her in her in her movie plans. What do you think about this? Though I mean this this anonymous allegation made from the woman's own twitter account I mean, so I, I was confused by the abusive part. The implication is that just by into the power dynamic that that this was not kosher right that's part of it is that you know she was she was having sex with people who worked for her. So under the current sort of Metoo, post me to roles that's inherently abusive. I have I think a little bit more complicated feelings about that I mean there are. Like people meet each other at work. It's actually kind of the easiest way to meet people unless you're like using dating APPs or whatever. That's oftentimes how people have gotten into romantic relationships at work. Clearly, there can be some power imbalances here. Look at Bill, Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. I don't think anybody would argue that there wasn't a power imbalance there, but we've also talked about in the past about on prior episodes. About how it isn't so cut and dry where like the older person always has all of the power because there are cases where you can like the guy in in. Massachusetts. We talked about the guy running felt like five years ago. Those Alex? Alex Morris Right. So Alex Morris as a brief reminder he was running I believe he lost but he was running for for. The Massachusetts House and there were these what turned out to be apparently false allegations against him claiming that he had been hitting on on the younger people essentially. He's writing for US Congress from Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and. So we talked about we had Dan Dan Savage on the podcast and we talked about this and I think all of us agree that in a situation like that or a situation like this in many different situations, the power can shift according to the circumstances right. So if you're a senator who has an affair with a twenty, five year old staffer. Sure. You do have the power in that like you have more power on paper but that staffer also has the power to ruin your ass. You have handed your power to the staffer. Yeah, and you know what I go for. Let me let's say like a more. Traditional example of like. forty-five-year-old Congressman Sleeping, with a twenty five year old legislative assistant or something these days in a situation like that like honestly, which do you think is more likely in the long run that she will somehow be punished harm for having had the affair or that she can use that against him I i. almost think the latter is more likely, which is a good thing. You know like we have the case of Jerry Falwell junior where he apparently was involved in some sort of like extramarital relationship along with his wife and a and a an a younger dude well when the younger came out. Jerry Falwell lost his job. You know it's it's not as cut and dry like older richer and and you know with a more powerful job automatically means that you have all the power in the relationship look too dirty or even twenty years ago. Absolutely I mean there are there are all sorts of workplace setting where women were were treated like objects with the the idea that in twenty twenty. Or younger staff involved in sexual relationship with superiors just helpless in has no recourse just isn't true at all right. You don't even have to go to hr you can just go directly to the press. And and that's not to say that makes these relationships appropriate. I think that like the house making a rule that people shouldn't sleep with their their staffers was probably necessary and the Post Metoo era. It is sort of ironic that the person who you know who ended up resigning from this was a couple men, Al Franken being one of them although he was an alleged to have had an affair or affairs anybody, but is a woman. And there was there was there was another woman in California whose name forgetting who had similar allegations who was like hitting on male staffers. So this does not just affect men in power and also affects women in power. I will say like if blocks are imported expands in like a year from now we have one hundred people on Staff I. Think the first thing in our employee handbook should be you're not allowed to have any sexual relationships outside of the office. Absolutely and since the office will be on slack going to be doing a lot of cyber wing. Exactly. So yeah, I mean. Okay. So what's what is these staffers who are presumably progressive are actually making the same point you saw the federalists and other outlets make, which is if these me too laws sorry if these metoo rules are going to be followed consistently. This woman did something wrong by sleeping with younger staffers? The way the story unfolded understandably was because these nude photos wasn't one nude photo or multiple neutral I. think There are a couple, the bond one, and then one where she was kissing kissing this woman. and. You can understand I mean that's a very sort of invasive happen to you revenge porn is horrible and her ex-husband his if he in fact leaked it, I'm not as a proven but I think he was strongly suspected. That's a disgusting thing to do. But you know maybe maybe these staffers are right that she was both the victim and and by these rules that you and I don't necessarily agree with an abusers too harsh. No I think that's I think that's fair and the the tweet thread by the anonymous staffer. Doesn't. Specify. What sort of advantage she took of her subordinates and we could assume that this is about just the extramarital affairs but maybe there's something else going on there. Maybe she was Shitty boss outside of the fact that she was sleeping with her staffers. Yeah. Have you ever done like a workplace romance type thing nuts in a way that I would like to talk about? I like. Working in coffee shops. Yeah part of. It is. That's one of the things about like about me to like. Did you see Cat Rosenfield? Advice column today and persuaded I do not. So our first cat Rosenfield. So she has a new advice column. Yasha monks, newsletter persuasion and someone wrote in an ask you know like, is it okay to ask a waitress out call league but a waitress and cat had a good answer for this for this this letter writer. But the fact that that even is a question really shows how much the dynamics have changed in terms of when it is appropriate to ask someone out and what it is not. An not that like people in the service industry should have to have to put people on hitting on them. But it's also true that like within workplaces especially workplaces that tend to be more like working class. I worked at a lot of restaurants I worked in a lot of cafes. There's a hell of a lot of sex going on. You know that's just sort of part of the dynamic mostly because I think. Attracts a certain like age group of people who are working there and it tends to be young horny people and what is the house if not the coffee shop of American democracy? Exactly. Exactly. So will you be watching the Elisabeth? Moss by OPEC? No. It's like I. Say I feel bad. I feel like I'm supposed to say yes but like the. No, there's no are you. I mean I might watch the movie when it comes out depending on how little else I have my life going on at the time but I do think there is something a bit hypocritical about a bio-pic. Presumably, this is one that's going to be flattering. I don't know if this is true but I read that she's a producer on the movie. So. That's true and it's just this like a story of her being a victim and not of also being a perpetrator I think it's pretty fucked up. You know that said if it's like an investigation into what really happened would be more interested in it. Yeah. Yeah it's weird. It's a weird situation and I completely forgot what I was gonna say so good segue for may well. I remember I remember now. I also, I have to say going back and re reading coverage. By phobia has been a central focus of this podcast. This podcast was was founded to fight by phobia, which is what it was. It was it was founded to perpetrate by. To fight and perpetrate depending on the circumstances I did like. I, there's obviously a lot of remaining. anti-gay and even more antitrade sentiment in the US the idea that this. Whole scandal was really about the fact that like one two people to throw were I just I. Didn't really buy that an being dumb and I don't really think by phobia was a major factor here. I. Didn't see any bi phobia at all I mean even like Red State, the the blog that put out the that release these incriminating does and tax messages they didn't like it didn't seem I mean maybe it was a little bit more salacious because her affair with a woman but. Now I didn't I didn't see any bi phobia coming out of that. I. Think I did experience a little homophobia yesterday when I was at the doctor's office. What happened? Yeah. So this this person at a at the doctor's office, ask me for marital status and then asked me I said it was married and then she asked if I want my husband to be like my emergency contact and I said Oh my wife and she like kind of looked at me like like I had three heads which was funny because like I'm like I look like a baseball hat like basically like fucking Little League Jersey. Girl, I'm the husband. If only I were only I wear my wife does all the killing of the bugs and slaughtering of the rats in our household. You know how many routes you your household? Just the one. Well sounds like it was slaughtered. So I'm glad he resolved that she's the man in the household I will say. All right have we said enough about Katie Hill I. Think. So I mean I you know I, don't want to. Sort of broadcast, a lack of sympathy over the revenge porn that's violating. That's terrible but it's hard. I just read these staffers. tweet ended, of course, some of the sort of like. A language. I don't know I. Don't know. Yeah it's vague but like again, if we're all playing by the same rules I, think it's a fair enough point to me. That was the thing that really annoyed me about the Katie Hill episode in the first place when this first broke was that she was really. Pegged as a victim and she is a victim I mean if her husband indeed. You know sent this revenge porn to red states is for sure that she's a victim of that. But you know it's also sounds like she was a terrible boss who was sleeping with her employees and kind of an Asshole I? Think the one time. That I wanted to hit on a waitress or like ask her out I literally I literally failed to successfully do so. Like I wasn't I wasn't competent enough. I'm shot Jesse. It, was I was in Philadelphia reporting story I was feeling pretty high my horse because they're just like the reporting had gone well. I got that sweet per diem and I was like, I just went out to eat somewhere and I think I ended up I. didn't say anything to indicate that I don't remember what I did I just remember leaving dinner not even sure if I had successfully communicated to the waitress that I want to with her which is like she's just like I don't think she got it. Just bring you another drink. Yeah. I think like maybe I like I mentioned being a journalist like left my card with the with the check but not having said anything like. I'm so nervous I'm like as you know, I'm an incredibly competent converse conversation later but I'm like I'm very weird about like I. Don't I do understand that women get hit on all the time I don't want to come across as like at all. You know that creepy especially, I think if you're a larger man, you're like, you know I'm I'm big. So yeah, I wish I could like watch that conversation as I tried to muddle my way through it interaction most men would have. No problem with but not my best moment. I find that I don't think I've ever hit on a woman in a situation like that but I do find any time. I have a medical appointment like this doctor that I saw yesterday anytime go the dentist I turn into the most it's not even on the turn into the biggest flirt. Hey by a drink I I I I. I should get me to just for what I say doctors. Dr. I also liked to I have to get a vaccine or a flu shot. I'd like to make lots of jokes about. Is going to give me late onset autism goes over really well, it's a doral battle over really well on on twitter. Should we? Should we move on? Yes. Let's okay. So the other thing we want to talk about this week was our Cunanan, which this is a conspiracy theory. You are a true believer in correct indeed I. I am Q- actually she's do you heard it here? First Cunard is this deranged conspiracy theory birth on Fortune, which is where Basically everything bad comes from, but also some pretty good memes to be fair and it is this idea that donald trump is trying to fight a ball of Satanists and pedophile 's. Not just saying. Peta files. CANNIBALIZE or can't have Hannibal? Endeavors gave to. That Parts Real Right. So this was like sort of an outgrowth of some of the stuff we saw with pizza gate, which was a conspiracy theory involving pedophile and Hillary Clinton. So basically a person or people who call themselves cue indicating Q. Level Security Clearance they will post Q. Drops are breadcrumbs to key to fortune, which is anonymous. Just image and export, and this is just the range stuff. It it is. I'm not meaning to denigrate people with mental illness but reads like Steph you'd see from people with sort of schizophrenia. They're like seeing patterns in numbers and over extrapolating from innocent statements, people have sad and Cunanan has. It's not most people don't know what Cunanan is hardly anyone believes in it but in certain corners of the Internet, it is attracted these like very fervent groups of conspiracy theorists who believe that trump is trying to take down a deep state conspiracy of pedophile. Sadness and cannibals. Outlying incidents. This is actually lead to sort of threats a real world violence. The. Violence is really pretty limited for the amount of attention yet. So I was looking into this yesterday and I think the. There's Pizza. Pizza Gate Preceded Q. But during pizza. Gay. vibe a guy from North Carolina. State. I love it. When North Carolina's in the news drove up to Washington DC and he he brought a gun into this pizza place called a comet Ping Pong and he was trying to. Trying to rescue these non children from their nonexistent basement and he ended up going to jail nobody was harmed but still terrifying thing to happen but go to resist charged. So I think accidentally, which is really could have been killed. So that's bad. and. I. Think after that I think the guy had a real awakening. Like okay. What the fuck? What the fuck of thinking? So so there was that that was sort of the really famous it did of course precedes. So besides that, there was a guy I believe he was from Nevada. He was arrested for driving in a truck air fifteen, a handgun he drove it to the the Hoover Dam and blocked traffic for ninety minutes while demanding that the FBI release some probably fictional report Hillary Clinton's emails There is a guy a member of the Gambino crime family was murdered by by a guy, a Staten Island man who who thought that this Guy Frank Kelly this mobster was in the deep state. There were they've been a couple of kidnappings by people, but these kidnappings are. It's like parents who who are Q. Believers. Kidnapping their own children during custody disputes. So it's not like they're stealing children off the street they're taking their own their own children they just happened to be cute people So there's a few things like that. Besides them one murder, I don't think that there any other deaths attributed to Q. On as far as I'm aware. But it is. It is like a very fucking weird conspiracy. They think that that trump as you mentioned is going to you know like literally saved the world this event that they called the storm and when the storm happens like thousands of pedophile will be arrested and sent to Guantanamo Bay and then an not all Cuba believe this. But this is sort of a subset of crazies and then there's going to be this terrible war on earth and then peaceful. Rain upon the Earth. So it's this weird like mix of Satanic Panic, plus Doomsday Shit plus Maga- trump obsession So it's very strange and a lot of people believe it. I know a guy who's a WHO's a Q. accused supporter it's surprising. He's a a famous Whitewater kayaker one of the best Whitewater kayakers in in the world and he has turned his like his his instagram account which used to be just like him running waterfalls into a queue account. He'll probably get banned soon because facebook announced this week that they will be banning. Q. Accounts from like pages groups and also instagram that are like devoted to and on which is which is I should say okay. So. Statistically it's not not a lot of people believe in it. It's just given how crazy it is. It's surprising how many do right right. Right because there's no apparent victims of this like Cunanan. One of the things that concerns me about on is that there are these shades of satanic panic right it politically, it's very different. Politically is very right wing whereas satanic panic during the eighties and nineties was a little bit more more bipartisan. It's still like we know what happened during satanic panic thousands of people went to jail for crimes that didn't occur crimes. They didn't commit Q. isn't that because Q. Doesn't have the institutional support that these satanic panic proponents did like. Like. Feminist. Clergy Therapist law enforcement for legal system were all behind that Q isn't that so there has been they've been a couple of Republicans like elected to Congress recently or appear to be about they won their primaries and we'll probably be elected to Congress who I think there's two or three. Who Were Q. Supporters. That's disturbing, but this still is not like nine, hundred, eighty, nine, hundred, ninety s thousands of people getting arrested for these non existent crimes. The thing that's that's the commonality here is that in both cases like there are no actual victims. During. Satanic. Panic these people thought they were victims because like there was the sole repressed memory phenomenon and there were lots of children claiming to have been the victims of these really crazy outlandish crimes. This doesn't even have the children who are making the claim and the other big thing that happened I wish I actually argued you my newsletter people overstating this but trump was asked about Cunanan gave sort of. A waffling answer that yeah, some took as a partial endorsement of it. I. Think if you actually go back and read the transcript closely, it was just trump being trump and barely knowing what he was talking about. But it definitely true that some Q. People could like take that as a sign. The president is on their side although by the same token if trump denounce them, they would treat that as evidence because he's just trying absolutely. there. So. They parse his language for these hints. And anything. He says it's like Vegas anything. He gets anything he says, reinforces their beliefs that they already have. Confirmation is. So so So Q as You said, it was started on four Chan. So but now there's this other ecosystem has has popped up. To House these cute cute drops. That's what they call them and Q as You said is supposed to be this person I think is probably a series of people who is like some military intelligence offer with Q. Level security who instead of just like going to the press or coming out and saying this you know these International Kabbalah pitas exist is instead relying on Internet ranchos to like do his digging for him. So I wanna read you some of these Q. Q. Drops. So. This is a website called Q. Q. Alerts dot APP, and this is just like when I come up on it here just the first ones I read before you read the we should just say we you and I believe these are all completely true. That's the position podcast. Yes. This is now a Cunanan podcast. Okay. So here's just the first one that comes up. is an all caps shadow president shadow government information warfare irregular warfare Color Revolution Insurgency Q. Here's another one. Why did Paul Ryan Refuse and then it says block I'm not sure what that means all subpoena requests by our committee shares. What is the going rate for the speaker of the House to Obstruct Congressional, Investigations for the purposes of Langer eliminating its fundings. Why did Paul Ryan initially refuses to be the speaker? What is coming what Paul Ryan retire at such a young age so I guess they're implicating Paul Ryan in this. Here's another one. How much was McCain paid to peddle the still dossier? What is the going rate for a? United States senator knowingly push false unverified Intel to the. To the FBI Q. Can Music Be Healing Q. and then there's a link here to a youtube video and the like the image says two steps from Hell Legend and Luscious lushest you what it sounds like. Oh, man. This is very like. Final battle in a fantasy epic type apparently, the band is called freedom fighters. The song is called two steps from hell or something like that. Because pedophile are two steps from Hell and the freedom fighters are trying to save the children. Yeah totally. So it just it's it's it's nonsense. It's just comes across as utter nonsense reminds me of a little bit as you remember. You might remember the suits sort of writing about it for New, York magazine at the time but during the wikileaks a in the run up to the election. People would take these like out of context snippets from John Podesta's emails and completely misunderstand them and build grand conspiracy theories around like. One there one one email about polling that talked about oversampling black voters if memory serves, which is just it's just a polling term, it means getting a bigger sample of black voters for more statistical power basically and ask them more questions. People are like Oh, my God they're they're lying in the polling I whoever Q. is or whoever they are. They understand that people are so paranoid and in some cases just not smart that if you just. Drop these like these loaded words people will just build grand conspiracy theories around and the pedestrian emails are what led to Pizza Gate I believe. Like. I don't know why but they like they read pedophilia into every line of his emails. So okay. So there's been a lot of a lot of speculation about how about who Q. is exactly and she's you listened to the reply all about this I haven't yet but they basically think. Pj Vote thinks he pinned down who it is right? Well. I don't WanNa get pj too much credit because it was other reporters working on the show. So he or working in this space you're also just mad you're also just Mary Blake. Wasn't pj who blocked me was Alex mad about. So. Which is weird because I'm a little bit of an Alex you know. Alex. Welby okay. In one of their shows, they Alec said that he sits down when he showers and I do the same thing I remember. You sit down while you shower is like sort of take a nap while his show we'll also their dynamic is it's like one guy like sort of You know more sexy. The other sort of Nerdier. You're definitely the more nerdy last put together on I'm just sort of as before more of a sex symbol. Yes I'm the Chubby Baldwin. Anyway. So I so I hate to recommend this episode because one of the hosts blocked me but I actually do recommend it. So they went and they interviewed a bunch people who've been who've been. Like trying to figure out who Q. is including Guy who? Who was there sort of the beginning of the evolution of Cunanan and the current theory is that it's this guy, this American ex named Jim Watkins who lives in the Philippines sort of sleazy businessman but I think what D- like right now has evolved much. There are probably lots of people acting as q there's not just one person, but this Guy Jim Watkins apparently, the theory is that he's sort of holds the keys to the main queue account. So So facebook bands, Q., and this is the question. Is this a good thing? A bad thing Jesse what do you think? Yeah I mean. So this is really complicated. Just, to get the easy stuff out of the way, facebook has no obligation to host anything. It's a private company I'll be at one that serves outsize role in our cultural and political conversations. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY A. Conspiracy theory as deranged as this one and as potentially harmful as this one facebook would just be like we don't want someone to do what they almost comet Ping Pong and then have it be because it. It came from one of our groups I completely get that the question of whether stuff like this. Well, okay, let me ask you about that I. Do you think am I missing the point in terms of saying this isn't much of a free speech issue at least. It's not a first amendment issue. No. But but free speech can be more I. Mean we both said. Yeah. Right. Right now, I mean I think it is a sort of culture of free speech issue and you know the question is there's well, there's a couple of questions maybe we should just like like steel man the arguments for and against deep forming. Cunanan. Yeah. The stupid argument for deep platforming Q. on is that this is already a conspiracy theory that has come close to causing violence or or maybe cause a little violence depending on how you attribute certain people's via behavior. And facebook is doing a service by making it harder for that conspiracy theory to spread you, you sent me a an interesting vice article by Jason Cobbler I think is the editor of of motherboard, their tech vertical and I thought he gave a pretty fair summary of the evidence that. When you ban someone from a big site like facebook or instagram. Most of their followers, just sort of find other stuff to do like most of a conspiracy theorist believers find other stuff to do. It's not like everyone is now going to go to wherever Cunanan sets up shop next because people or whatever yeah. People online are pretty lazy and I think the average person who follows Q. is maybe a middle aged person who spends too much time on facebook but isn't hugely tech savvy otherwise I'm I'm I'm sympathetic to that view because both you and I have seen that people are lazy like people who are outraged at us. We'll. We'll tweet at US endlessly, but never send us an email. There's just like when you even join Patriot, they won't even join. When you make it a little bit harder for people to get some sort of information that stymies a lot of them, right? It does. You, know there are examples where D platforming works and article you're the vice piece we're talking about specifically talked about people not movements, and so I think there is a little bit of a difference there. And in some cases, you could say like well deep lot like let's take Alex Jones has Alex Jones, loss followers sense he was deployed for him from a bunch of outlets I don't know the answer to that, but I'm guessing probably if you can't watch. I think the evidence we have is it's really hurt him and like Milo Yannopoulos was really hurt whatever you think of the fairness of these bands I think Megawati's in almost a better example because she platform for twitter for she said like. Men Women or something I. It was like a kind of a crazy thing because Megan Murphy has a history of Miss `gendering people. But the reason she, I, in this case, like finally, D D platform from twitter was because she missed gendered. Jonathan Yeah Nieve. Jessica Yaniv. WHO's a Canadian who this is like such a shit show. To not go too far into it is a Canadian Trans woman who like went by Jonathan in her profile and had been accused and ended up like having some legal battles of some like really like pretty. Nasty. Shit. Yes, we won't go. We won't go too much into Jessica you've but Google it if you have nothing else to do today but Megan Murphy. was banned from twitter and I do think this has taken a major head on Megan's career. You just like kind kinda disappear when you're not when you can't be seen by the people. Yeah There are other examples of movements ideas being banned for major platforms like in that same neighborhood, the gender critical sub, reddit gender, critical feminism. You know basically argues that women are women by dint of their biology that Trans Women are women. We are these are incredibly offensive ideas or in progressive spaces are viewed as almost. Hitler ask. For better or worse I these are also believes he believes a lot of people hold. So that question of the slippery slope to the point where read it is banning communities where you like pulled Americans on the basic tenants of those communities you you might get a majority answer. The question is whether whether that is like down the slippery slope from something like banning q i Just. Think Q. is such a different case. Okay. So yes, the Jenner critical sub is a great example I. Think a better example of this slippery slope would be they banned the Jenner critical. They also banned the transition subrata I've ever brought back, but they did they did didn't they they back which I thought was agree just because it's a support group. And lots of support groups profiles have also been banned in that case I think it's a bad thing because support groups are actually designed for the most part to prevent people from abusing children not to enable it. But there is like that's one of my concerns about this is this slippery slopes where A company like facebook really does have the power to control the conversation which I'm not really comfortable with my problem with this is that it will not be applied evenly. FACEBOOK can say that they're banning Q. Because they're sweating conspiracy the they're spending conspiracies or misinformation or because there are some inherent violence within this ideology I don't know if the if that's if that's fair considering how little violence has actually been perpetrated by Q. People at these at least until this point that's not to say that there could be acumen militia forming somewhere. It's possible but we haven't seen that yet. At the same time. It's facebook ever going to take down people who spread the misinformation that the average that the life expectancy of the of the transplant is thirty five or that there is an epidemic of white supremacist police killings. Yeah. But those aren't the same. Those are like I mean, it's not the same in terms of a conspiracy. Well, it's misinformation, right? Yeah the the average trans person life especially well, just basically a made up misinterpreted statistic. I wouldn't want facebook if someone thinks there's A. Spate of white supremacist police violence. You know there are discrepancies were more black people get killed in numbers disproportionate to their population. So that's the kind of thing where I don't on facebook litigating whether or not I don't think that should be anywhere near ban I agree with you. But if if that's misinformation and Q. is also misinformation, why should you know what actually has a bigger impact on American culture right now, this this idea that that police killings are all related to white supremacy or that there's a cabal of sex passed and pedophile in the deep state well. It's like, what does it mean to say all police killings are related to white supremacy that's just there's so much room for interpretation there whereas with Cunanan, you're positing like some crazy shit about about powerful figures and. I mean I guess I'd have to think about why I just yeah. I don't buy the comparison maybe maybe I naively think that you can. Corden off certain conspiracy theories as so gone and the. Pale and you can safely just corden those off one by one without it affecting things like you know whether or not white supremacy explains police shootings like Holocaust denial I'm sure gets routinely banned from facebook and I You know. I don't have a problem with that. Frankly I don't want that to spread I mean. To me it's just it's not that different from like flat earthers. Do you think flat Arthur should be banned from facebook? No but this is this is my I'm having trouble coming up with my own coherent standard I don't think flatter. Do, much harm how much time do Holocaust deniers do like an a real material sense I? Think they can do a lot I mean, do they do a lot now? No, it's just one of those movements. To spread shirt shirt. I mean I think that that makes sense I agree with you. But I also if you wanted to take like all right, let's compare Q. to Antifa who has really done more like property actual material harm in the United States. For the past. Obvious. Do you think that facebook or twitter should ban antic else? No, I don't either because. Okay. So there's different standards is the standard. You're right. I was brought up her is it getting very philosophical I had brought up harm I don't think the standard is actually harmed because if the standard was harm, there's a million things you had banned before and totally like like like I mean, just the the amount of misinformation about health about vaccines about things like being they have Andrew I've acce groups that have hundreds of thousands of people and one of the problems here is that like when you like? All right. So I'm on INSTAGRAM and I follow a couple of like. Like health, I would call them health hoaxers, but they're just like naturopathy kind of holistic like health people who I happen to be full of Shit. But I like looking at content because it's Kinda funny to me it's more anthropology at the logical that anything. If. I'm like engaging with one of these accounts on on instagram and I and I like go to it I look at it. Well, the next thing that comes up on my feet this happened yesterday could be an account saying you know with listing all of the chemicals that are in that are in vaccines and saying like these are you know this is the problem with vaccines and anti vaccine account so it's not just that they're like. Leading these groups proliferate on the Internet to me. The bigger issue is that they're feeding you the content I. Didn't I'm not ask the action for antitax content, but by engaging with other antibiotics accounts giving me antibiotics content. Yeah I mean I think when it comes out to is like facebook and twitter are just pretty horrible and our net negatives for humanity and they're trying to mitigate some of the damage they're doing and we might have to. Try to content ourselves with the fact that like there's never going to be consistent standard and sort of going to be what I don't like is like. Whatever's the fixation of sort of like the people who run everything to given moment I do think. Has Gotten? raised up more than it deserves because it's not that influential despite those those few incident. So it's like. I. Guess. That's what worries me the most is just like what decisions these decision makers are going to bake and going back to the gender critical. I. Think stuff like that needs to be to a certain extent hashed out in the open I don't think Cunanan needs to be hashed out in the open but. Yeah if you give them power to make decisions like this, and that becomes the norm who knows how they're gonNA use it down the road. I think that's another another point against banning human on is the out in the open nature, right? If they're on facebook, you can join these groups and you can see what's going on. If that disappears will if they go to some more like underground dark web community and I don't think the majority of q followers are going to do this. But. It's not out the open anymore where people can see it and the other. My other concern about this is that it's just going to serve as confirmation to people who already believe in Q. That they are right and that they're being oppressed it definitely will because obviously the only reason facebook would shut them down because they have something to hide facebook. facebook. Pedophilia Mark Zuckerberg Blah Blah Blah. Well look so. Some of these questions are unanswerable, would you rather have a world with? You know two million people talk about Cunanan openly facebook or with two hundred, fifty, thousand much radical wants talking about it in underground forums and I don't I don't generally know which one is better which one is more likely to lead to violence I do. I do think this will crimp movement and and halted spread a little which is good. But there's all these bigger questions we haven't started to really address about the power, WanNa. Give. Moderators and just just the totally arbitrary decisions they make and the fact that they often don't do so in an even-handed way, there are cases where I can I totally agree that facebook showed can and should use their power to to shut groups down like you know. In our when the military was like for years was using facebook to spread propaganda against the Rohingya minority and Like I was reading up about this yesterday, and then I'm like I've become such a skeptic about media I'm thinking like this really happen what is this is the problem But let's just assume for a moment that everything that we read about. That was true. Well, then yeah facebook was responsible or at least indirectly complicit perhaps. In A. Rape and murder and. Actual genocide against a ethnic minority. Absolutely. I. Think that if something like that is happening, facebook should shut it the fuck down. But well but that's that's a tough stance for you to take because you don't think. Ben Shapiro should be shot down and yet there's a lot of slightly hysterical people on our side who believe that like stuff that Ben Shapiro says lead directly to violence. I mean absolutely. I think you're absolutely right about that. I would have to see some. Some case where Ben Shapiro something that Ben Shapiro has actually led to violent that New Zealand shooter had among people listen to bench but that's sort of silly because like Aebischer there's VIOLENT LEFT-WING PEOPLE WHO'VE LISTENED TO CHAPO Trap House that doesn't mean chaplain. Right, there is the guy who shot up the Republican baseball practice he was Bernie. Sanders fan is that Bernie Sanders is responsible for you know for his for his crimes absolutely not. I mean I guess one of the things that society as a culture we need to grapple with is what is driving people to these movements. In the first place you know and I think disconnection probably has a lot to do with it. The lack distrust. Personally it's the lack of community in real life. Yeah. I don't know. Do you have any ideas for people with your your extensive knowledge of human psychology about what an appropriate way to try to de program someone who believes in in Cunanan would be oh God no I mean I think we know more about what doesn't work than what does I I think what you're getting at of trying to figure out what they get from these groups it is so. Much more common for these groups to provide a level of support and community and I think some of this was captured well in the New, York? Times. podcast rabbit hall, which is partly about Q. and on people act like people like get ideologically converted to these causes. It's much more about finding friends finding a place to hang out online. And purpose. Absolutely. That's part of the reason like I. Do not. You should not be judgmental. You should not be like you moron, how could you believe in that? Work no you think Cunanan. People are unaware of the fact like thinks they're idiots they probably relish. Feeling a little bit. So yeah don't be judgmental try to figure out what it is. The group is providing in like honestly just. You know I think in many cases. The best you can do is to steer them to a less radical version of the same thing. I'd rather have someone like in Ben Shapiro Forums Hewitt on forums to take that example. I was looking into this yesterday and there's lots of. Psych today blogs about how to try to help deprogrammed people and one thing that that that I read was was like you know exactly that try to redirect people into something more positive. So Not Ben Shapiro. But if someone is really concerned about human trafficking, you know direct them to an organization working with victims of human trafficking unfortunately, a lot of those organizations. Talked about. With Elizabeth, Nolan Brown are also full of Shit. There is a if anybody actually dealing with this in your in your real life and you have people either you're accu- believer or you have. People you care about who have sort of you know fallen into this rabbit hole. There's a reddit called Cunanan casualties that I was looking at yesterday that that does have a lot of people talking about this and might have some good advice for you. Unfortunately I don't know that there is a good way to like de radicalized people who don't want to be the radicalized, and that is not just in the matter of Q, but like if I could convince. Who believe in astrology that astrology is bullshit I would've done it longtime ago. There was this legendary thread by by someone I think someone like resistance twitter person about is like. If your son is falling down some white nationalist, her cell rabbit hole here's how to radicalize was literally like. Watch John Oliver was. Up. T. teach them the difference between punching up and punching down and why punching up inappropriate I'll try to find this red, but it was like I. Think it was written by someone who is like a part of q and is trying to drive kids toward it. There is also there is a New York Times piece a couple years ago maybe last year a mom wrote it about her son's like how her son was like watching Jordan Peterson videos. Washingtonian. Or is that your time there may have been multiple New York Time Watch. Yeah, and she was like talking about one of her sons like laughed at an off color joke or something like that and she in this woman acted like this was like her son was joining Isis the level of moral panic over like obviously, there is some scary corners of online but like the insult panic and to a certain extent, the Cuban I panicked like these people are crazy but they're not that many of them and I think I think some of the coverage that like endlessly drives conversation to the subject is going to bring people to queue on who will fall down that rabbit hole. Absolutely. I. Think the media has done more to spread on than. Q has done to spread Cuban on at this point on that happy note was there anything else you wanted to discuss? Okay. There was one more thing. So I'm Gonna I'm going to read you a couple of paragraphs from an article that I saw in the Hollywood reporter yesterday CD Group Inc reportedly fired a manager and its technology department. After an investigation found that he operated a prominent website dedicated to Cunanan, Blah Blah, blah, Blah Blah and statement city confirm that this guy is no longer with the company and added that employees are required to abide by its code of conduct. This includes disclosing and obtaining permission for outside business activity. What do you think about that? It becomes a public relations issue for them. I assume he wasn't bringing Q. Conspiracy theorizing to work I'm. I'm like inherently very skeptical of firing people over even Gonzo. Political. Activities and I've been depressed at how much of a pro firing people turn a lot of people in the left I've taken lately but is it does become a PR thing and? I understand why a corporation is not going to respond with much backbone. Yeah. It just seems like. Just designed to make this guy turned more into his conspiracy. But then he won't be their problem anymore now that is true. That's the thing that he won't be their problem anymore he will be everybody else's problem. Come come listen to block and reported. We can provide community fires you especially if you joined the Patriae on then you have a whole. CAST characters to speak with yourself. That's five dollars a month more worth of community than version. I should say anything else. nope. As always you can email us blocking reported podcast G. I. We got the Sub Reddit Just Google last spread the word spread. The Gospel were by Cunanan but better and smarter late lows that sorry I just blacked out for second. What'd you say? That happens a lot I'm talking. This has been blocked reported I'm Jesse single and remember always remember to explore the power differentials of any workplace throttle you enter into and I'm Katie Herzog and also remember only the illusion of democracy only the illusion for the people for the first time in a long time our stance with for the people, all assets deployed Q..

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"2020 Is Canceled" (with Katie Hill)

Hysteria

1:13:03 hr | 8 months ago

"2020 Is Canceled" (with Katie Hill)

"Hello and welcome to hysteria. I'm Aaron Ryan this week. Eliza Master Monico Katie Hill and and deal joined to ask the following questions should Democrats be worried about losing. The House is a deathbed confession. Enough to atone for years of damage. How do you cope with uncertainty when your ability to make plans has been taken away all this and more right now when the news is bad? I know that it is tempting for me to tune out but I also know that sometimes examining bad news and figuring out how to learn from it is a good thing so with that semester. Monaco and I are starting this week. Show with the conversation with former California Representative Katie Hill. Katie resigned from her seat last October and in a special election last week a Republican one bomber. So where do we go from here? Let's ask Katie are welcome Katie Hill. Welcome back to hysteria. We're so happy to have you back. Glad to be back. Thank you first of all. How are you doing man That's like a loaded question. I feel like I'm you know I'm I'm okay. The results the election were pretty horrible. You know in a way it was of what we were expecting. But you obviously didn't ever want and at you know it's just like one thing on top another in life in in figuring a way to get up in Russia yourself off in new forward was I was again when I was a kid. Reverses a still own a horse and the biggest thing that you were taught was being you fall off you get back up and get right back on and that's just kind of against what length is so drilling down into that trauma? A little bit last week was was the special election in California's twenty fifth for everyone listening. What happens and were you surprised when you say what happened do you mean why did we lose or yeah yeah why Jillette. Why did why did why did she was. Yeah well I think the biggest chapter honestly is just people in a special election. Democrats don't show up and you've got the rented. Republican base. That was particularly riled up because of my scandal and excited the opportunity to take a seat back. I mean that was that was literally what they were plotting. They were trying to you. Know to find something they. They found something. They exploited it. They got me to resign and this officers their opportunity to take back. The seat they felt was stolen from them in the first place remember. It hadn't been held by a Republican ever in its current form and they really did not think that it's possible for someone like me. Let alone any Democrats there So I think that they really rallied around this opportunity and from what we know they actually did some very despite the fact that you hear them complain all the time about ballot harvesting. They had some very organized efforts around ballot sting and Them for figuring it out. Because like you know that's to me it's about helping people be a but the churches were really mobilized in getting people to providing drop off centers. And saying that they're gonNA mail to use of swing by the church in you know do it in your car or whatever and we just didn't have something like baton. I think you can also partly attributed to the fact that Democrats were pretty disenchanted by things right. Like you're GONNA be really really frustrated works so barred and felt like you were. Finally I heard over a felt like you were finally represented and have all go away. So quickly is is really disenchanting. Should okay so there was a special election in California's twenty fifth special action in Wisconsin. Seventh both know that these are anecdotal elections in every district is different but you can still kind of extrapolate things on a maybe on a larger scale from this like. Do you think that Democrats should see what happened in your former seat special election as a wakeup call I do. I think that it shows that you remember mine was one of the Houghton quote safest swing seats right. Hillary Clinton when by seven. I want by nine. This isn't one of the seats that should have at risk. So what it means is that you know. Depending on what things are looking like November especially depending on the energy that's coming from rate than district's length. The ones that we flicked that were that were ones that that trump won by sixteen points are really really wants. We need to watch out for so we should give up or stop paying attention to the house just because the Senate is looking like it's within reach or obviously presidency so that to me. The biggest of all first and foremost the second is that as we are adapting to this Nalen strategy. How we doing that right? Field is what has been our strongest most important. Get out the vote effort right and that's modified I don't take. You should give up on it all together. I think they're Balkans Altogether they have they have a different base of people who they can go soo and again reliably that will reliably answer their phones that they can you get to things like drop off ballots churches. But we're GONNA have to modify field programs to to frankly make sure people know how vote by mail. When they have many many of them have never done it before especially in these lower turnout areas of to begin with which are usually the most. Democrats held Katie. Beyond even just in. How do we re engage the Democrats that helped you win by nine points when now they're also facing the pandemic childcare challenges on employment and things that are just like so catastrophic question? I think I am hopeful that the loss actually was a wakeup call for a lot of people might have thought like while the seat will be fine. Now they're like okay. I have really have to bow part of I mean honestly. I think that the the district itself is democratic leaning enough now that if we get to turn out that you know is usually expected in November election. I think she will win. And we saw we saw it happened with the ossoff special in Lucy. Macbeth one in general. I think we're GONNA see that in this case but it still. You know it's something that can't be taken for granted in terms of the support that I had the volunteers mobilized rabbit. I think that's that's going to be the same thing right is how do you figure out ways of ways of getting involved? That may not mean. Move leaving your house And how do we get people excited about it? Especially when the Senate is in play in California and the The obviously dilatory votes are going to be there for Joe Biden. No matter what so. I think I think it has to be like maybe you know maybe the Gee let's get so excited about meeting the seat back because like that. That as it's more like Oh you fuckers. Hello and stand up and what's ours okay. You said the word motherfuckers. Let's expand on that a little bit because we we chatted briefly about this About this race and how it personal it was to you and how personal it was considering the person who ended up winning the seat. Can you talk a little bit about the people who helped promote Christy Smith opponent short so the first person the first slew of images that came out was through the publicly came out was through red? Sti His enemies are images of You. That were released without your consent without taking taken without your consent. Got It and the only person that could have done. That was my accent. Spin obvious denied it. And so it's a it. So that started at Red State. The person who published those who who was the investigative reporter has been a longtime Republican operatives in the region who writes I guess on side. Honestly don't really know what I know that writing as is not a full-time thing for her and she had worked for one of my previous owners. She worked for Steve Night in the past and the day after the day. After I resigned she endorsement ARSIA There were a number of other people who were involved and again. This is information as circling through like facebook groups and drew a the random people that are on the ground in. It's not it's not like a niffer court case starting to like that bitch so many of the people who were supporting my sem from the beginning. We're the ones that need new. Had the photos and some of that is actually on logs. There's still posted out there. A Joe Messina. And things like that so I think For me that that was the biggest thing right like it was misleading. That my favorite before all of this came out he was. He was a good candidate to begin with. I mean he's got the fighter pilot background. He's which is really really great for our district and I think that's one thing that hurt Christie was they were able use You know something that she said. That was not it was. It was unfair that they used it but they still didn't saying that she was making fun of his background As as a fighter pilot and then on top of that she was he's got a he's a Mexican American startling Geeta last name and with a district That my era so there were those things but yeah it was. It was all of the people on the ground that were involved in in my husband. Getting the images out there than than making that Ju- The the national scandal that it was for the ones behind Garcia in place. And and you know I don't think that Darcy and himself had anything to do with it but it's still it's still pretty painful Is there a world given that our world where you would reenter politics again beyond the kind of behind the scenes role that you're taking now? It's hard to imagine wanting to do that. Honestly I I'm I'm still pretty young right. I'm thirty two. I went into a left Congress before. Turn thirty three. I think that like there's a lot of time left in my life and flashing But it's not. It's not something I foresee in the immediate future at all. I think it's a not for not for my only. I guess as much as it is like. I don't need to open overnight. Backup my family for you. Know anybody else so if something comes up where feels right and I feel like the you know the support is there and I have the emotional mental capacity to to do it than I'm I'm open to it right. Time is now And I before we wrap. I want to end on an up note. What have you been doing during this strange? Stay at home time. That has made you happy or that has at least given you some like releasing catharsis okay well before the election. I was like pretty I was reading bogus congrats by the way. Thank you. Thank you Very busy and then and then I got a kitten and I'm so glad I got the kit for I got the Before I got the bed and then I am afterwards though I like days of just like not wanting to do anything except for get off the couch and then I got on the scale and I was like oh now since then. I've been very motivated to cook ends workout and I have nothing else to do right now. this is the only time in my life that I can think of where. I'm not totally busy where I have zero excuses not to cook in workout like. There's no time reason that I can't do this and I'm like I'm just like before we come out of hiding again like I'm GonNa being conceived that's that's that's you look it worked for Sarah Connor in Terminator Two. So why can't I make this reference all the time but I find her to be an inspiration and I'm excited that you're Linda Hamilton ing. That's that's Great News Katie. Thank thank you so much for stopping by you know. We're sorry about the election. But we're looking forward to winning it back with you in November and helping Christy Smith Congressman for the twenty fifth. Thanks guys all right. Thank you bye Kayla. Hey Aaron and I learned a new word this week. What did you learn is lethal logica level? What is that lucky? Logica means being unable to remember what word you're looking for so like if you know what you mean but you can't remember it. The funny thing is I have been trying to remember left. Logica all week to bring it up and I keep forgetting it and it is very ironic. I'm so glad there's a word for that. Other than early onset dementia Lamelo. You know the word you're gonNA keep forgetting it and every time you forget the words logic OCSTA- every time you watch. I mean I've I repeat it like ten times to myself the I learned it and I keep forgetting it and it's less lot less logica. I I learned the word thunder. Oh sweatshirt says lender count on it. Yeah I didn't know that word afforded this week. I learned that this. It's a good word. I think that the the vowel sounds really make it feel like Like rhythmic and musical. Almost yeah it sounds like it sounds actually better than what it sounds like a German word a really fun. German were wounded bar. Thunder Count Right. The thunder kind thunder. Okay let's get into this so there was A. What are those news stories that came out this week? That made me go well. Well well well well. Among my all time favourite Erin tweets. Well well I always know what you're always. I mean I always though it's it's usually pretty obvious but well well well well. Well well okay. So here's what I'm willing about this week. There is a documentary coming out on fx called Aka Jane Roe and it will be released. I think on Friday of this week but I'm sure it'll be available for streaming after that and the subject of Aka Jane Roe is Norma mccorvey. Who was Jane Roe in Roe v? Wade so she was. She was anonymous. Enroll v Wade. She was the original plaintiff in a case that ended up making abortion legal in the in the US. In one thousand nine hundred five. Norma mccorvey had come out publicly as very against abortion and she became a sort of champion of the antiabortion the nutjob like level of antiabortion like operation rescue type stuff and she in this new documentary. She makes a deathbed confession where she admits that she only pretended to be antiabortion because she was getting paid. I'm going to read the quote. She stated I was the big fish. I took their money. And they'd put me on front of cameras and tell me what to say and that's what I would say. It was all an act. I did it well to. I'm a good actress. Well well well Eliza what well. Well well well. What do you make of this? I mean what is there to even make a bit like what fucking hot trash garbage. I mean this woman clearly has a lot of problems right. She had a debt of now thing. She's also dead. Yeah I guess But I mean she really galvanized some fucking lunatics. I mean like it's like it was like she found fucking God right and just like I'm against abortion and it just it was so motivating for the people who had been waiting for this You know someone to be there sort of like you know ace in the hole. I didn't even know. I don't even know what state of the rangers though there ringer. And and so you know so. She makes a deathbed confession. I need I don't know I guess it's good. I mean I guess. She didn't want to take that to the grave. I'm guessing. She got paid for the documentary to. I don't know but Having Guy Guess rest in peace the basket of lies the it seems like she. I was thinking about this as just this real exercise in people just believing whatever they want to believe like. So you know Norma mccorvey was a big draw for the antiabortion set and since this has come out that this documentary contains this stuff bed confession where? She admits she was paid. Some some knucklehead signed me up for Operation Rescue's newsletter so I get it Which jokes on you idiots 'cause I subscribed anyway because that stuff is important to know if you are on the opposite side but in the newsletter. They're like vehemently denying that they ever paid her. They're calling her a liar and it's sort of one of those things that like. I would like to believe that. I mean given the given the options I would like to believe that it was all an act and she was doing it because she was getting paid I would like I would have liked her to just remain pro choice for the duration of her life. Yes but given what actually happened. I'm you know my inclination is to believe like yeah. Of course you got paid. Of course she said whatever they wanted her to say people on the operation rescue side or like. That didn't happen. People who agree with them anyway are not going to be like. I feel like it's one of those things that we're never going to really know for sure unless there's like a trail of Don Jr. style emails that are like. Would you like to do a crime? Yes I would like to be paid ten reminder. I am pretending great. Keep pretending we like the pretending. Here's some money like give barring that. There's never going to be any conclusion about what she really believed in who really paid her. And for what and in the meantime she did a lot of damage hope. She had some fun with that money that she allegedly paid. I mean I wanna see the I wanNA to watch the documentary now because I will say that the trailer that I watched was not It made her it made. It seem like she thought this was all quite sort of funny at the end of the day or like Shirley got away with something and I guess I need to see that she understands. It was a little bit more serious than the way the trailer SORTA ten. Yeah it's not like a catch me if you can type situation exactly. It's not like the girl Scout. Brang this Rask I this little this little rap Scalia and getting getting up there and endangering the rights of millions of women you prank does. That's a great prank. Maybe we need to like have a universal declaration of what a prank is an. Isn't like this if you're hurting people this is not A. It's not cute. This is not like when we stole all the for sale signs from around town and put them on the high school's Front lawn or your IPAD. It's so dumb because it was like snot. It's very upstate is. It's very rural. I think we still stole her. Sale signs also one time. Yeah but like it's sort of made me think like the antiabortion thing I mean. She didn't end up having an abortion. Mccorvey wanted to have an abortion. When she was pregnant with her third child she ended up giving birth to the child. And I think Giving child up for adoption and then after it all because court cases take forever. And it's you know if you're the one suing for right to an abortion. You're not going to get that abortion but So she never had one and it just sort of. There's so many women who would have liked to have one earlier in their pregnancy or would like to not have to lose a job or drive six hours and men. This isn't just something that you I just find it really morally repugnant. For her to have taken the money in the first place and I it Yucky that she is now thinking. Nothing's it's Kinda funny or thought. It was funny that I got. I got to watch it because I mean it's really. That's the part that really I found upsetting that. She she at least in what I saw seems to think this was some house like Jinchi Scuba. We got away with it. You know it gets a little fucking more serious than now. No I mean. Yeah she's sort of like the Kaiser Soza of fucking with my body which is not. This is not cool not cool. Okay well yeah. I'll watch the documentary too because it does sound like a really interesting subject and what lying I mean. What else am I going to do? I'm stuck indoors highway and look forward to I. Guess Yeah I guess. Do you want to do a quick toast roast roast simply but I got a roast aside from door okay. So this week Elon. Musk who sucks like there's no debate about whether or not he sucks. He is like cartoonish billionaire that I think should I think we should eat him is what I think we should do. He's awful but Elon. Musk tweeted this week. That he wants to take the red pill red pill which is a reference to the Matrix where morpheus offers neo two pills the red pill reveals the truth and the Blue Pill returns him to his delusional state of being plugged in as a battery. Anyway but the red pill since the Matrix came out has become Internet shorthand for a misogynist anti-feminist kind of woman hating human club culture. And Yeah So. He tweeted that. Ivanka trump quote tweeted taken. And I just WANNA roaster a little bit for exploitation Lincoln Exclamation Point. Ivanka trump first of all. I don't think that if she knew what that meant she wouldn't have tweeted that which means that she's just like so she's so dumb. She's like the dumbest least cool. Elder millennial but I can imagine she she also. She tweeted taken. She doesn't know what she's doing and even if she doesn't know what she's doing I feel like that's maybe a more honest expression of her feminist beliefs than anything because she's never ever stood up for women who are not exactly like trump or interested in purchasing Ivanka trump knockoff handbag. I don't know what else there is to say about her. She's just no I mean. So here's the thing. I'm going to be honest for some of our older listeners. Who've never been on reddit before when I saw this I was like God. She's so stupid because I was thinking like the Matrix. What is she talking about? But then you had to explain to me what it means on. Read it so like just two sentences for people who don't understand what the red hill or the red pill is Forums online referred to the red pill as a lifestyle that ignores the humanity of women it like seduction involuntary celebrate like it's a sort of world of Internet sludge where people who don't understand why nobody wants to fuck them. Blame everybody but themselves basically an exclamation. Yeah I mean I guess. The best way to sum up this whole story is one of the directors of the Matrix responded to Ivanka's trump with fuck both of you. I say that that's pretty funny. So that's that's my roaster the week. Ivanka trump continuing to be extremely the worst and Elon. Musk also moving up in the power ranking of billionaires that I plan on eating I that you really have satisfied my need to roast this week because you know how I feel about Ivanka but the other thing I just want to add about how stupid she is is that I don't know about you but when I go to twitter. I don't know exactly what someone saying I think I do. I definitely like look. I searched I read the thread before I like quote. Tweet anything doubling down on it. And she's senior adviser. Not only the fucking presidents kid which is really all she is but she is a senior advisor in the White House. Who did something so dumb? And nobody knows what she meant by it. And it's just like again. I go back in time and like imagine if someone did that. When Barack Obama was president it would be it would but everyone's just like vanguard dumb bitch. Yes yes let's end on the dumb bitch for rose this week. Let's take a quick break. We come back Elizabeth stick around. We'll joined by one more panelist and we'll get into a longer discussion about making plans in an era where plans don't exist. Hysteria is brought to you by fair shake. 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Go to Nordstrom rack dot com slash crooked shop online or. See if there's a store opened near you new styles or edit every day so you can always find something new that Nordstrom rack dot com slash crooked because maybe a new pair of pants will make you feel a little bit better and we're back. We've reached the part of the show where there's three of US instead of two of us. I guess that's the distinctive thing right now. Elissa still is with me in New York in one square over for me on my screen and in the other square we have Kirin deal. Welcome back here and it feels like it's been way too long. I know it feels like it's been a whole sixty five to one hundred million days of quarantine you live alone and you look great. What's your secret that this was all I had to do for the whole day so I have nowhere else to be. Have nowhere else to do. This is the earliest. I've been up in weeks in weeks weeks. Normally sleep do like I wake up at like I like go to bed like four in the morning and my natural like I think my natural schedule around no other human beings this is. This is bad and I shouldn't out myself is like four in the morning and then I wake up at like noon so this is like to me this. This is like five in the morning. Nine four I was gonNA feel like you're catching an international flight to nowhere. Who Really feel like I'm in Beijing right now so yeah. I think I think that segues well into kind of what I wanted to talk about my plan for today. My plan plan the a couple of weeks ago? Accuse host of what a day and friend to all humanity tweeted about how her coping mechanism is to make plans. And I have never smashed the like button so fast in my life because the hardest one of the hardest things about being on lockdown or stay at home order with no end date set has been that coping mechanism has been taken away like the ability to make plans. Isn't there anymore and you know one thing and I don't. I don't want to harp on a wedding. 'cause we've already discussed this but you know we cancelled our wedding and we were thinking about rescheduling to twenty twenty one but before we made plans we started talking about it. And it's like twenty twenty one might not be okay either like we. Kim Can't make plans can't make plans to go on a vacation can't make plans to go. See Your Family Karen. Have you found that plans? Kind of evaporating has been something. That's impacted you. During this time I'm still hung up on the phrase quote. I don't want to harp on a wedding. Yeah I know it's I know you guys have talked about it but all you're allowed. You can harp a little on a wedding. There are other examples of plans that people can't follow through with like graduations people have had you know their entire lives looked forward to graduating from high school or college invited themselves class of two thousand twenty and then they don't get to celebrate it like. I participated in a zoom graduation. This weekend for a person who's a fan of the show. They they had me come and do like a commencement speech and it was really cute. But I'm but I'm sure it was like not what had been planned. You know what I mean and like. That's that's what I mean by. You know there's all kinds of people who are having like their plans and everything they imagine kind of falling off for them right now. Yes Shit on. I believe the phrases shit on. Yeah I would say when when Gavin grown a first name basis now me and the governor of California when Gavin like last week I had I had the end of I had quarantine being lifted on March fifteenth like in my calendar. May Fifteenth. That's right I don't know what time is Erin. Okay am I got the right? Thank you so much but when that happened. I I remember being like like I put that in my calendar I was like looking forward to it and I was like you know like trotting towards it so I feel like he personally betrayed me when he continued the lockdown order. Like like that Tuesday. I was like I was like. Oh what the fuck you know what I mean like an I felt that waste I think specifically because because that was something to look forward to you know like so even though he's re I actually felt like it was a framing issue. It's like if he he. He reopened the trails. He did some stuff. And he's going to be like lifting the lockdown slowly. The idea here. And if he'd been like okay like may fifteenth were opening the trails and then like Wolfe's in the other stuff slowly. I think I would have been like. Yeah but the fact that he felt like he took away. You know the the idea of Of Freedom for me Eliza. Have you had similar feelings around the governor of New York and plans and you feel that way about how do you? How do you feel about Gaddi? Feel about Andrew. We're GONNA we're to say you know it's like I have coastal NBA because you guys are further ahead than we will ever be here in New York and so when I hear you kavech about may fifteenth. I mean I think we're looking at like July fifteenth. This point like my can't tell you the rage and I can cite tweeted about it the other day but so New York is broken up into like seven different regions and I live in the capital region and the capital region in New York. The governor has set up seven metrics that each region has to meet before they can start reopening and the capital region has one metric left that set. We are so fucking close to being able to do drive by retailer. Whatever it means and I went to the store the other day and people were just like not wearing masks like not even just not merit wearing masks. The woman's like I dare you to stop me like I'm not wearing a mask. Only looking assholes you are. You're trying to take away by like phase real but anyway so I don't have any optimism about when I'm going to be able to do normal things so I have a very specific way of dealing and it's like an it is about plans like as I wrote books about how plans make me exist. Amac like this has been like a lot but so I've just made things much more bite size. You know like you were saying The other night my hubs and I were watching the trailer for the King of Staten Island. Which I think comes out June second and I put that in the calendar and sentiment fell. Invite him like we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA look forward to this. We'RE GOING TO WATCH IT ON JUNE SECONDS. Second and the like going to the grocery store basically. I just don't do anything random anymore. There's one grocery store. I love Hawthorn Farm Hawthorn farm store and we go on Saturdays. We get there by eleven because you have to. Socially distance in the line can be very long and I get to foods that were really looking forward to. I get their pizza dough. And it's like I know it sounds really lame but those are like the plans I make. It's like I'm going to go to the store that day. That means we're going to have pizza on Monday night. That's something to look forward to. And so those are my those are. Those are the kinds of plans that I make like. I said before you know. I think that my neighbor and I looked at the weather forecast on Saturday. And set up our social distancing for Wednesday so we had something to look forward to. And that is it's like it's like there's no spontaneity because it ruins your ability to something human so that's kind of where. I'm at every everyone I know. Sounds like they're living in a retirement community in Florida totally because there you guys even dressed like I'm running condo board. It's literally like I talked to a neighbor of mine and I was like and I was like so. What did you do this weekend? Oh we walked around the block. We took a dry like we saw mountain that we went to the store. We got some pizza outlook if you just if you put it in. Seinfeld's parents accent all of a sudden you're right there in Boca Raton Florida right here. And I'm the and I'm the same. I have done that. I strung out an entire an entire week on on the idea of eating a big meal of Indian food and it was just like my whole week was like strung out on like making very against so yes small things. Yeah I mean going back to the plans thing I think another thing kind of what Elizabeth saying about the plans thing. Something that is really frustrating about it is the knowledge that the thing in between the strange on more now and a time when we might be able to make plans again are people who just can't put up with the they just can't deal with it like people who are like bursting out of their houses to go get to protest and people who who are like demanding that stay at home orders be lifted on them and their states even though they don't even though they don't have any reason to believe that the pandemic is under control. They're having to rely on other people who are like the dumbest motherfuckers alive to act right so that eventually the people who are acting right can go out and enjoy. Life is super frustrating. Like there was a we went to. They opened up the beaches in California for exercise. Which I think is very fair considering what we know about the way that the disease spreads enclosed indoor spaces with people with uncovered. Mel's okay cool. So they opened up outdoor spaces for people to be active as long as they cover their house. I think that is. I hate wearing a mask but I do it and I think that's fair so we go to the beach to go on a walk. And they're people just out in big groups sunbathing like we're never going to or never going to get through this because people are just not going to be able to follow the rules and I can't make a plan to like go visit my family until like I have some idea that it's going to be like somewhat safe and my family is in Wisconsin so like I don't know they're all like knuckleheads there. It's it's very very frustrating. Have either of you. Tried to make travel plans to visit anybody or to go anywhere. I had weddings. Yeah I had weddings canceled. I was supposed to be in London and the summer to family. Weddings also cancelled and You know and not rescheduled. And then I'm just going to go to India and also no and then as I said per my email. I was going to go to Tahiti because it just sounds great. Why not but. That's really just a pipe dream. Have you heard about people who've gotten stranded in beautiful places like they left right as the pandemic was started? Because we gotTA GET OUTTA here. We've gotTA GET OUTTA here. Are we going to be stuck in America? And then I there's this New York Times article that was like really shut and Freud a delicious because there was like some people were like we gotta go to Nicaragua. It's going to be beautiful. And then they go down there and it's like no you're not on vacation you live here now. Now you live in now you live in Nicaragua. You can't leave you welcome. Yeah you live here now figure out how to eat like there's a laughing so it is kind of funny though like if it were something that had happened to someone. I know and they were telling me the story. I would be like you dumb ass. That's hilarious well. Because those people thought they were going to like what game a pandemic. You thought you're going to be able to go like I know someone challenge through instagram. Who did this and she let me tell you in the beginning. She's like Alan g like the pictures were so walking obnoxious especially because it was still snowing up here we are on the beach Isolation now either a hot mess I mean. There's nothing left on the island. You know like they're talk about isolated. It's like the four of them in some like granted there at a hotel but the hotels like down for all NC purposes so anyway. I'm not going to say I enjoyed it but just going to say you can't get a panel. Yeah like there's nowhere to go. That's the thing that's so frustrating. Like that I think is so hard for people to grasp is like you. Can't you can't go anywhere. There's nowhere to escape it like there were people in New York City. Who are going to the Hamptons like? Oh yeah the disease won't get us here. It's like no it will it? Can you brought it? Yeah you're brought it yeah. My Dad was in England so he was in like he gone and then the pandemic happened and then he just didn't book his return flight. I do think there's isn't there a thing about like if you're a citizen or something you're allowed to repatriate back to your country. I think but then you have to require in quarantine for a period of sending another thing. That makes it so difficult as everywhere. The rules are different and they're always changing and like that's another bucks with plans is like yeah of course listening to public health officials. There's no way for them to possibly put a target date on anything and so of course this has to change as we learn more and stuff and but every country has different rules and in the US sometimes. Their rules are different from city to city. Like from like in Wisconsin for example like Milwaukee had a stay at home order. I think put back in place after the State Supreme Court decided. The governor didn't have a right to declare a state of emergency that lasted as long as it. Did it just like your dad here in was is he still in the UK? Yeah how long has he been months months mof? He can't come back at all. I mean I think that technically he could but I think he was just like. Oh you're I think it's one of those things where you're like. Well we're here and it's kind of the same everywhere Florida's reopening Florida's going into phase one on Monday. I think you know. But it's they are doing a phase like phased reopening and there are a lot of precautions being taken like if the school reopens a preschool. Reopens or whatever the thing is know. So yeah everyone's in a different everyone's literally actually in a in a different phase like everyone in my family's at different just depending on where you yeah. I saw that the I think an official in Los Angeles his wife went to Arizona so she could get a pedicure and yeah because Zona. There's like no no like rules around that compared to the rules here so she went to Arizona and like posted a bunch of pictures to facebook. It's nice to be normal again and it's like Oh my God what are you doing? And it's like please don't bring back whatever you call it. The Nail Salon or I hope you didn't bring something to nail saloon which is right may just as I mean maybe more likely because there's more cases thing you know what last weekend really and I guess there are just two kinds of people in the world but last weekend when so many of the college graduation happening I looked on twitter and University of Wisconsin. Class Ninety eight. Uw for their graduates. Who obviously couldn't graduate. They lit up Camp Randall and they did. They played the they had the band. Play the graduation song and they did this whole like sort of video and like it was very emotional and I was like you know what it's like. I'm doing my part because I had my graduation writing and so like other people next year or in a couple of months should have that chance. And if we don't all do our part you know I want to do my part because I want women who have babies to be able to have visitors in the hospital again someday like I guess I just think it's so fucking selfish for people who can't control their in Yeah I mean it is. I mean I pointed this out on twitter that it's funny that the people who are considered considerate tyranny for them not to be able to haircut the same people who think it's fine to like not like women have abortions or woman. Drive six hours to get you know. Wait two days to have an abortion is just like the moral inconsistency is really mind boggling but off of the college thing this week my group of friends from college our texts chain lit up because my Alma Mater Notre Dame is going to start classes on August tenth. That's the plan. Saw that person classes August tenth. There's going to be no fall break and the the term ends right before Thanksgiving and then everybody just gets to go home. I mean I think that that is a very wildly optimistic thing for them to do but on the other hand they have to make a plan like you know along all this uncertainty people like new entities like universities like people who are starting families people still have to make plans among all this uncertainty so like what are people supposed to do. Are we just supposed to do you know what I mean like? Do you think that college make plans to reopen understanding that they might have to reverse course and I I mean I think that you make a good point. His part of me wonders. I think that there is a small minority of people who are probably being very selfish but I wonder if there is a larger population of people who feel like they feel so out of control. Like I can't do anything I feel like people have like. It's one thing and then it's another thing and then it's another thing that another thing so I might have to do something. Do you know what I mean like. Like like the the social fabric of trust in a government official or in the person who's telling you it's in who's in charge is is really imperative for everyone to buy in and participate and if this is going to be eighteen months twenty four months thirty six months. Whatever the situation is what is what is what is the plan. I like as a nation is the plan. Phased reopenings restaurants at twenty five percent capacity. Is the plan like. Let's just keep everything closed until it's totally gone forever you know. And and that's you know and then obviously that has massive repercussions on the holding pattern that we have all been in for hourly every single person has been in for their. You know this this time period and I think people get nervous because it's like what am I going to do about my paycheck? What am I going to do is my business fall apart. Is You know because one or two months is one thing but once you start to get into oh it might be through all of the fall so people can attend college or like those. What about those kids? Who are graduating. What are they? GonNa do their jobs. You know like getting like can you imagine graduating right now into this economy? Like beyond just the graduation. I mean like being to like nineteen or twenty and having to go out into looking like into the workforce. Yeah I mean that's almost unfathomable to me I I'd imagine a lot of people are moving home But also yeah I mean. Here's the thing like it's really frustrating. I think because almost literally everywhere in the world except maybe Brazil is doing a better job at handling this than us and it sucks. Because we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be this great country of like can do innovation put your head down and get it done. Doesn't matter how hard it is and like our inability to handle this as a reflection of a complete failure of leadership but also a failure of our collective ability to take care of each other. Because like you look at a place like South Korea New Zealand Norway. Those are all places that the citizens accepted a really. Like really draconian things like social tracing contact tracing which. I got an alert on my citizen APP earlier this week. That's like would you like to be one of the people that does contact tracing and I don't think enough Americans are GONNA do that in New Zealand? When things started getting better the prime minister who is I think a thirty nine year old woman a locked the country down even harder and now it's it's they've solved it. It's gone because everybody listened. Everybody did it and it's like you know we can't be a little pregnant here. We have to like do it or don't do it and now we're kind of half doing it and it's the worst of both worlds and it feels like it's so frustrating and it's so easy to like get angry at individual people who are making choices that endanger the progress of overcoming disease but really. It's a failure of leadership because we don't have people setting good examples. I think I mean think about it. We have a president who justice this week. I mean you can't even keep up with what's happened this week. But he's like he denied. There's no denying that so much of the mindset that so many of these people that we see who are flaunting The sort of protections that are being put in place are people who listened to him. It's like we got to open up. We got to open up. We'll we all this. I just think it's so fundamentally. Miss Understood misrepresented in The News I guess we all WanNa Open. I WANNA get back to being able to like hang out with my niece or get a job. I mean talk about plans. I had a bunch of speaking things that were my income for the summer. Or never coming back. How many people just have things that are never coming back and are trying to look forward to being able to go like? I am like looking forward to go to the grocery store this weekend. I'm lucky I have the money to go to the grocery store like like there's just it is it is like Aaron. You're so right. It is a failure from the top Any other person making another Republican Mitt Romney. Okay let's make the President Mitt. I would love that honestly. I think that'd be great now. He does not represent many of my beliefs. But I have no doubt he'd be wearing a instead of taking hydroxy chloroquine for fucking shits okay. That is what Donald Trump is doing is taking it for. Shit and the FDA had to come out and say again like hey everybody only taken up your in a hospital with a doctor and he calls it. Fda trump haters putting that statement out. And that's the problem is that you have people who listened to the president which is reasonable people listening to a president. They're like yeah. It's just a it's a fucking hoax like we're not GonNa die here and the funny thing about schools is that yet there are not a lot of cases are not as many cases in the mid. West as there are in New York or in California or in Chicago but when schools open up colleges specifically. You're not saying the kids from New York can't go to college if the college opens like University of Nebraska Opens Up. Are you saying the kids from New York? Can't come because you know whatever. So they're misunder. They're totally misunderstanding. That by killing everything now and taking this so seriously it will enable things to open back up and for kids to go back to school and people to go back to work and for people whose jobs demand travel to be able to reasonably get on a plane again. Anyway they're so fucking salvation. Awful I can't one of the things that I do find very challenging is like I remember. I remind myself that it's like like it is hard to feel grateful for you know when you get into a car accident like that's a big thing. I've gotten into a couple of massive car accidents. Great driver thank you so much but like five minutes before you get into a car accident. You're not in a car accident right and it's like when you're in the accident like and you've just had this massive fender bender. Whatever happens you look back to like man. Things were so great. Five minutes ago or things were so great ten minutes before. But it's very hard to appreciate when you're driving that you're not in a car accident and and that's it's hard to appreciate when something doesn't happen right like so it's hard to appreciate that you didn't get a parking ticket. It's hard to appreciate that. Cova ease in your town or the people that you know aren't dying like if you're stuck at home and you're not seeing the consequences of the reason wire stuck at home. I think that's a little bit of a mind. Fuck like ice yell struggle with that on like you know in terms of like gratitude or whatever molly to alone here you know in my house but I I struggle with that on stuff like remember to be remembered to be happy that you know you didn't get into a car accident. Remember to be happy that you didn't get a ticket like these. Those kinds of little things and I feel like cove is a massive example of that so if if if this was an outbreak like scenario like a like Hollywood movie vibes like people were seeing the repercussions everywhere around them. It was really. I feel like the compliance would be higher but I wonder if at least part of the reason why people don't feel the imminent threat is because they cannot see it you know and it's very hard to wrap our heads around this like intellectual idea of like no but the reason you're not seeing it is because we're taking this collective action so we're stopping stopping about from happening as opposed to or from getting worse. Yeah Yeah I mean that's a really good point. I was thinking this week. I watched contagion because I does. I'm the only one in America who hasn't watched it and I'm not all the way through but as I was watching it stopped. You're not all the way through. I mean you just got power through chunks. I'm watching it and watching it in chunks. No I started watching it and then I think it went. I fell asleep But the one thing I thought was like Oh you know the plug in contagion is Kinda Gross. Like people have convulsions. Throw up and there's like something that is really and like other things that have killed off. Lots of people have also been gross like the plague was fucking disgusting like things that Ebola is a really horrifying thing to to see. This is something that's like. Oh Yeah you get like glass particle like formations inside of your lungs that never away and you drown in your own body. That's something that we don't really like. We can't see the disease isn't like something if you saw a picture of somebody who was dying of covert apart from the fact that in a lot of cases they're hooked up to a bunch of machinery. It's not like they have sores and I almost think read. It would be easier for people to understand if we could like it would be easier for people understand the repercussions of them not respecting rules. If there was a more people were more visibly sick and I'm not complaining. I'm it is a horrible designing very true it because because the problem is when they show people who have it on. Tv eight goes the the sort of Cova deniers when they're like. It looks just like the flu or looks just like it physically. If you haven't even with the tubes it's like yeah it's like a bad flu or an address headed an interest was just like I'll go Kobe. Nineteen from house and he's just normal. He's fine he you either can't feel anything just got covered so take serious. You know what I mean. That's that was him with it. It's there's also an uncertainty right. Some people get it terrible like really bad. It's like seventy to eighty percent of people might recover and be fine. But then there's a percentage of people that would be a massive amount of of death in this country if you know all of the people if all of those people got it but it's it because it's also a little bit of a luck of the draw of what happens if you get it. You know I think it also makes people are like well. I'll just roll the dice. Then because the odds are in my favor or or ear and I remember when I saw you before before the quarantine happened I remember you. Were talking about flattening the curve. And you said you know the. I think you were talking to somebody in your family who works in healthcare. And you're like there was a point at which the news cycle was saying. Everyone's going to get it and this is about flattening the curve. You know like an. I don't know if that's true anymore because I can't feel my face so but that should see that's a you know I. I wonder if that plays into it to this idea of the gamble because of the severity. Yeah I mean you know what else another game where the odds are in your favor. Russian roulette so let's not. Let's be a little bit. Let's let's be realistic here. It's like a dishes cheeto pepper plate. Where one out of what one out of five people will be permanently damaged or killed by the Shishido pepper. It's like not a risk that it is okay for us to take even though it canceling all of our plans. It is fucking with our psyches. I Eliza I like your idea of writing down cultural events in the calendar when something's hitting a streaming service love that I'm telling you and so it is. You should abstain this house today. Mrs America came out. It was like clear the decks. We are watching it. I R. L. At mean it was it was it was it. Does it end? It's it's it is truly like enjoyable. It does give you something to look forward to. If you're willing to be that so I guess out in twenty twenty big plans in in two thousand twenty little plans we have to take a break though a plan to break and when we come back we have a plan to talk about sanity corner. You guys in the SEC. This episode of hysteria is brought to you by Filo. I am super stoked to sit down and finally watch season three of killing eve. I have been saving it up and it is ready and waiting for me to watch and I can't wait to watch it do you love TV. But hey the size of your capable. Filo is your solution. It offers more than fifty channels of TV live and on-demand for just under twenty bucks a month that offers networks like MTV. Vh1 One comedy central Nickelodeon Discovery. Id and a lot more. They have kids shows reality. Shows lifestyle. Food everything you need to feel like you're escaping from the Kind of semi lockdown situation of your home yellowstone Ru Paul's drag race the walking dead love and hip hop live. Pd Ninety Day fiance. 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The millions of fans and creators who are changing the way art is valued together checkout Patriot dot com and join the millions of fans and creators. Who are changing the way art is valued together and welcome back. We've reached the part of the show. We all share with you some tips on trying to stay sane it is sanity corner one sanity corner for us for all of us. I think over these last. Several weeks has been hysteria movie club which has been Super Fun. It's where we watch a movie that is old not old but like ten years older more we re watch it with fresh eyes decide whether it holds up and what kind of people were watching onscreen. And it's a lot on this week. We did the social network. You can catch on crooked media's Youtube page on Sundays. We post it so catch US talking about the social network with a bona fide. Harvard graduate cured deal. It's a lot of. It's a lot of fun. You guys should definitely tune in if you want to hear us. Go off on Mark Zuckerberg elicit you want to start sanity corner this week. Yeah so nice. Amny corner is very small innings to look forward to and so on Tuesdays. I watch hysteria movie club movie and on Mondays. This is like there are not a lot of nights where things look forward to but On Sunday Nights I Watch Ninety Day fiance and I realized that I'm one of many many people that this is become a thing. The show is efforts on better but I even have my hubs it with me now to because that's the thing it's like we're in the house together and so it's so much more fun to watch something with someone and so. I've literally been like you WanNa Watch and so now we watch and He has very fun. Commentary like wait. A minute is the tourists and I was like no. He's coming up next So that honestly is is all of the iterations of ninety nine say it's ninety day fiance before the ninety days. Where are they now and pillow? Talk which is hands down the best the best version. But that's what I'm not GONNA lie. I'm watching trash television but I'm not. Db DVR. It's like watching a second time if we talked too much during it. But that's it that's it. It's it's communal television watching on Sundays to ninety day fiance. I haven't seen you in a while. Eliza are you still enjoying the company of your husband? Yes yes I have to show you guys after rain here. This is our countdown calendar of how many as we've been here it's like imprison like we're not imprison were day a sixty eight as day. Sixty eight that. We've been along together in the House I will say and I had stipulated up front. I love him another small sanity. Corner is when we tape here today He usually takes a drive back down to Manhattan should check our mail and packages and like when we came up here. We didn't think we were going to be here for a whole new seasons of clothing. And so he takes a trip down and honestly it's nice. It's Nice it's nice business. My Saturday corner is simple this week. I've really gotten into bleaching surfaces in my house like once I go grocery run. You put everything away and then you clean up and then you wipe things down with bleach and the place smells I liked. It smells like bleach. I I don't know if I've lost my mind but I like I. Bleach the light switches and all the things that people like doorknobs and all that it feels very like it's clean. Now you're like we can sit down now. Joanna exactly I get it. How are your taste buds are? Can you still taste stuff? I don't taste the bleach. So you're fine. You're like inhaling it and then you're like what is this nation's they didn't take presidential guidance and tried to inject shrinking. She just uses it. To defect Sir Disinfect Service here and she's fine. I'm fine I'm not. I'm not licking the bleach yet. All right here in. What's Your Sanity Corner This Week. Lick Bleach Lick. We just now. We can't even joke about that now. Really No I. As you know have always been an advocate of staring at walls But now I I mean I just started reading one of Samantha. Irby's books it's the will never talk in real life it. It's one of the older ones. I just didn't know about her as an author and a she's fantastic so I feel I've made a new discovery of someone that is hilarious funny and like I look forward to hearing her point of view so I've discovered some good comedic female authors and that's been really nice. That's great so many books are bad so many books especially like I love reading. I novels. I love buying first novels and reading. I NOVELS TO SUPPORT THE WRITERS. Because now we're writing sounds horrible and a lot of first novels are like we have to unleash all the tragedies in this book and I'm like I there's a book that finished that it's a good book but I had to stop because it was just like I just stop and like take a breath and it was just like too much tragedy so it's good to like find funny books. I think right. Now you're finding books are nicer like light. Some some light content is really fun. You know so funny books yet. Never have I ever also mindy killings new show. That was great. Yeah that's a really fun series. She did a great job. All the actors are fantastic on it. That's an it's fun and they. It feels in fun you know what else is light and fun for anyone who cares the new amy. Schumer cooking show with her husband. Amy Schumer Learns to Cook. It's fucking his because it's exactly what you what you want from her. Her husband is also Funny and charming and I learned how to make recipes. That were like very easy really Good I need some people to replace. Some certain cooks who? I no longer really going to be following the recipes of Ood Dr. Let me tell you. I don't know what happened. He can Mr Amy Schumer got it. Mr Zuma's the chuck variety right right exactly. Although they are related what cousins. He's like second cousins or something. Amy and Chucker cousin power family. Amy Schumer and Chuck Schumer for People. Not Following all right on that note. That's all the time we have for this week's episode of hysteria. Thanks Tula Semester. Monico for calling in things secure and deal and thanks Katie Hill for joining us. The news segment. Thanks to all of you for listening. There will be more hysteria next week. This Janet hysteria is a product of crooked. Media's Carolina Reston is our producer our editor is Sarah Barrett and Kyle is our sound engineer. Thank you to Juliet. Beckstrand for production support and toward digital team Elijah cone and not enough Melconian for filming and editing video content. Every Week Nadi me of spout toddy. Sorry you WanNa go to manage to step with the base. Could make me come from this mama get get me some cold.

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Samantha Powers Atrocity Prevention

Slate's The Gist

32:23 min | 1 year ago

Samantha Powers Atrocity Prevention

"Hi this is Mike pesca host of the gist an ad supported podcast. Don't believe me listen to this quick smart news that's worthy of your time actually Zayn Hbo Features Leading axios journalists highlighting the week ahead in politics business technology and the big topics shaping the future from conversations with Ilan Moscow Tesla's early bowl to enforce rules for itself I don't know they do seem an improvement on the easy to enforce total lack of rules that came before as did a lack of it's now a hypocrite no that is not how relationships work are we all hypocrites today know times have changed is Congress writing impossible Corum I think what we're seeing with the example of Katie Hill is an enforcement of decorum and that's not always easy that's not always agreed upon the sectors with the biggest impact on our society including entrepreneurship politics and technology third we need to amplify external you little more detail I we need to dismantle the barriers that prevent women from advancing professionally things like stereotypes about women and girls in the media and sexual harassment in workplaces second we need to expand pathways to enter and fast track advancement for women into positions of leadership catch new episodes of axios on Hbo Sundays at six PM TV streaming and on demand the following recording may contain explicit language. I can't get more status quo is Congress with its rule disallowing relationships between Congressional members and their subordinates I think we could all get on board with that wrote in time of her goal to see more women in the position to make decisions control resources and shape policies and perspectives in this video she got in pressure on institutions that can change the status quo helping people raise their voices and demand equality now one institution that has tried to change a consequence of a rigid system which is built to be rigid which is built without nuance and which is built without exceptions in mind billionaire philanthropist Melinda Gates is someone who benefited from a different set of rules but who we don't see very many non beneficiaries of those I I'm Mike Pasqua earlier this month Melinda Gates announced a one billion dollar grant toward expanding women's power and influence in the United States Vladimir Putin accelerating as well as all the great software that that sold on Macintosh in Nineteen eighty-seven Bill Gates was the chairman and CEO of a company Microsoft then with three hundred forty five million dollars in sales that had almost two thousand employees one of those amid level employees was Melinda Sell Melinda Gates Avenue Nineteen eighty-seven is An exciting year for graphics interface the increased popularity of the interface has meant that the sales of the Macintosh have been. That's a little bit of light stocking via the duke connection by the mom but who wouldn't be enthralled by this charismatic devil here's a clip of Bill Gates in nineteen eighty she talks about that match moment back in nineteen eighty seven so it turned out his mom knew somebody who was on the board at Microsoft it was on the board sorry at Duke and so I guess he'd been asked it would you go out with me you know two weeks from Friday night and like two weeks from Friday night who knows her calendar that far out like okay when Melinda Gates who's in a position to give a grant to advance such work as addressing inherent power imbalances and workplace relationships wait why again here explicit than may say it's Tuesday October twenty ninth two thousand nineteen from slaves rules there were victims and there are still victims I just don't know the Katie Hill neatly falls into that category on the show today globally and more customers globally means that strider bikes can hire more employees back home in the US the grow with Google initiative is committed to help this is like strider bikes in rapid city South Dakota are using tools like google market finder and Google ads to expand their reach and connect with more customers from Connecticut to California from Mississippi to Minnesota millions of American businesses are using Google tools to grow online business google dot com slash grow up so yesterday we heard from former US ambassador to the United Nations about her work in the study of preventing atrocities and I wonder if she or others in academics or the government went back when other and I was coming out of the building and so was he out of his building and he struck up a conversation we started talking and then this on a Saturday and he said he finally got around back past the point of win the atrocity occurred back into the future and try to isolate points and figure out which kinds of states might be expand upon and modify my remarks the Society for the defense and preservation of Katie hill the minutes of their meetings or actually right there within Katie hills twitter feed but I it is part of my interview with the former ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power yesterday Syria today the world weight that is a quote his former Obama Security Council member for Human Rights Former Pulitzer Prize winning author Samantha Power Yes just one person in this interview I start by asking her. The American businesses like strider bikes used the web to grow that's why growth with Google provides free digital skills workshops and one on one some of those factors for example a history of mass atrocity can be a preview of of future mass atrocity scarce resources climate change has been a major factor in served shrinking the legitimately politically ethnically and a tendency on the part of politicians to demagogue on the basis of the other but then amid all that is knowledge that there was a trigger a coup can be a trigger for example so some things you can't predict but occasionally in an example like offered you can predict and so you know in Ching to small businesses in all fifty states helping them get online connect with new customers and work more productively learn more at Google dot com slash grow that's a pie and then you see more tension and as we S- we see even Western democracies at temptation to kind of blame the other whether that's defined come states where atrocities occur and what can we do to intervene before yeah I mean I'm cautious about use of the word intervene because I feel like nobody even knows what it that we know that the Sudanese government is was going to try to stop that that's an atrocity we're in an atrocity prevention moment even though it hasn't come to that there's not even a ballot box that's been created were study would say okay once things go bad from this point more likely the nine you're going to get these sort of mass graves I don't know if there is any look we look at Serbia and Bosnia and Croatia and trudge man and Milosevic were at each other and is there a tell is there a point can republic of examples where where we're doing all of this and it doesn't make the headlines and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives are saved and indeed it of looking at the circumstances in the country of Sudan and recognizing that ahead of time there's a referendum that's going to happen means anymore you I think you're meeting something about military intervention which you know post trump and all the to talk about not only does not make the headlines it doesn't deal with the underlying problems that give rise to a potential mass atrocity crisis in the first doesn't solve the problem to be clear acted were dying so that could have been close to a million people killed by this kind of ravaging horrible disease and in but as a policymaker your choices do try to save lives and then at the same time try to put in place the elements of a long game in the face of that instead of bucking and bowing to the politics in this country which were terrible honorable prison Obama sent US troops and health workers sandwich ahead of time we knew from the epidemiologist that one point four million people are going to get infected with a Bola at that time seventy to eighty percent of those that's aimed at dealing with the underlying factors give rise to atrocity in the first place so south Sudan's an example of that Central African Republic Ivory Coast there are other because of the crisis passed around so we're we're we're you know a year and a half out even from the date of that referendum and so that's an example of looking ahead at that instances I tell them the book as the book is not only story of Syria and Libya by the means it's a very personal story immigrant store and all the rest but it's also a story of confidence I think now about US leadership in the world you know I also spend a lot of time talking about the response to the Ebola epidemic which is not a mass atrocity but ultimately was a circus the Malaysian government to to send rubber gloves and the Japanese government to build Hams has met suits that were less hot in the equatorial sun and the Chinese really worth bearing in mind because the question of how stability is going to be achieved or preserved by the world as a whole and what role the his that tend to predate crises that give rise to mass atrocities or genocide that exists a couple of things I mean I I give examples in the book again King for some information about me new worked gone to Duke and then came to work at Microsoft so anyway we're working on a Saturday I worked in a different building but I guess we'd parked somewhere near e into the eye of the epidemic empowering me Secretary Kerry and others to mobilize a global coalition to get Cuban doctors to deploy and Malaysian move back drops or steady state conditions you tend to have some event that is a trigger and and so in south Sudan all of what I've just described but then you had the that you can deploy in order to sort of generate as much attention as you can in order to deal with the underlying terribleness and so on the government which wants to be a major player on the global stage for the first time being involved in a central way in big humanitarian response and and I think those examples are also it's more that we have enough that is impeding our path to dealing with climate change we want an expeditious overused by activists and is there a cost to that I think it's been overused I think groups who experience grave injustice of what estates has to play in that conversation is very much up for grabs right now in a way it hasn't been in in our lifetimes do you think the word genocide has been I I just think it's it it can be distracting and we have courts that grew up unfortunately they're not at the height of their sort of reach and and convince Republicans to return to science and to believe what's in front of them calling what corporations are doing what they're doing you know complicit in genocide isn't we know definitely there's a huge there are there's a substantial academic literature I think that in social science that looks at the set of factors set of coalitions and initiatives to be put in place that go well beyond even what the Obama put in place to me the but I don't think it helps anybody in there in or in general I should say it I think it's it doesn't necessarily give you the boon that you see the way station of getting that label puts us in a in an argument that is not actually helping us get to our destination so if I'm GonNa Convince Trust Peak Enron seizing the label you Love Baseball yes finally something that isn't about my last book so it seems to me that at different times or maybe ever kind I mean police violence mass incarceration I think now you're seeing even in the climate change movement the idea that that corporate currently you've been a fan of the Pittsburgh pirates the Boston Red Sox the Washington nationals missing anyone no do you think that being a fan of so many teams helping me and they're plenty of people are already plenty motivated even some of them might look askance and say oh well I'm all for dealing with climate change but I think that terminology is legitimacy right now the international criminal court but it was good in the nineties and through the first decade of the twentieth century to see institutions in place public imagination you know what belonged in that category me sort of almost like third degree murder second degree murder first degree murder or even like what the Supreme Court has done the things that I've described so I think it can tend to be diversionary and can detract I've heard it used for example recently even in terms of what Turkish President Eridani nations or governments are C- are sort of complicit in genocide I think when it's when it's that horrible as the things I've just described you want the most horrible word that on free speech and whether you can shout fire in a crowded theatre you needed courts to have cases come before it to figure out where those lines were it actually adjudicate the question of you know where does ethnic cleansing end and genocide begin and to further refine in the Hitler did and so therefore if it's not like what Hitler did maybe it isn't so bad and it's like no Shirley that's not our standard for what horrific state behavior is and so is doing within Turkey to political opposition and what I said to the person who who'd used the term as I said I said you know you then for the American audience especially that may not be familiar with with all the terrible things that air to one is doing to his people there they end up in their head thinking we'll wait it it certainly wasn't like what eight tops pink gum and ruined my teeth at an early age and it was all pirates all the time I went to high school in Atlanta Georgia did not I completely understand it but I think what ends up happening is the overtime the word loses a currency I suppose if it does get overused but but I care less about that grew up a Pittsburgh pirates fan I moved to Pittsburgh in nineteen seventy nine just before the playoffs started just before the pirates made their run won the world series baseball was my way of fitting in Iran around the neighborhood with a big Wad of big league chew in my cheek and I collected baseball cards and baseball stickers remember those Arctic they have those anymore and I Louisville's generally which can mean different things to different people in the case of genocide there actually is a legal definition and it's a pretty high bar or different bar than some of goes to Tim Cook's perspective on government regulation each addition of Axios helps you dispose of distraction tune out the noise and focus on news that matters most comports with your diplomatic resolve or background I think it's pathetic I don't think with a straight face I can defend it but I will try I. It was not so fickle that I you know jumped on the braves bandwagon or anything like that this was the late eighties seventies right right and so I'm going to spend some time of the Holocaust I'm going to spend some time looking into that W- that we know and so this isn't just a point about genocide I think it's about just it's to reason in the referendum the people of South Sudan who've been genocide by the government or GonNa vote shockingly to leave Sudan and knowing toffs back when the Pittsburgh could compete with the bigger market teams and so I was Sta- departs fan then I went to Bosnia I moved to Boston went to loss eighty terrible terrible but I but I really what I mean there was no close indeed as you know the braves and the pirates would square off and I you know I it depended on who was wearing the standings in terms but I I mean I concede that this is borderline unethical intensity of conviction dedication than even me at my most obsessive and I'm somebody who listened to red SOx Yankee Games on a variety however what I will defend now is I have a ten year old son and seven year old daughter my ten year old son feels about baseball a greater drive you crazy the fact that you're living with this person who's churning out book after book after book as you're working on one fritzy much I mean other things drive me more crazy it has contracted that carefully so now I'm in a situation where as I think most parents can identify with I care much more about his happiness than my own and and actually tell you the score of every regular season Washington nationals game not even because he has a great memory but he has just well he must have a great memory but he he a satellite phone indoor four during the genocide regular season games and who went to spring training every year and I'm a big Fan I have nothing on my son who can brain and in his writing and teaching and the rest of the disorder is all externalize unfortunately in our home but I think it can I say something amazing about him is that that he when at no matter what I write for what publication or no matter what draft I was on of this book and I'm I'm a person who just it in any way relates to your diplomatic outlook no no like Ross conviction as but evolving so your husband is cast sunshine who's been on this show as I told you five times because he's written thirty eight bucks or something in the five years hosted the show in my heart so I had a national league there was nobody was going to compete with the with the pirates and then I had this so then occasionally the three interleague play the Red Sox and the pirates would play so he's handwriting you know like exactly and his Slovenliness more generally all of the order in cast his life is in his the education of an idealist a memoir by Samantha Power. Thank you so much for coming in thank you the U. Right Excellent Books Your first book wile to publish but I think to write in interviews I've heard about how you've labored over this one does the fact that he's so prolific happiness turns linearly the fate of the Washington nationals and so that I think is more defensible than than had been sort of hedging my bets between the two leaks but do you think that vixen but I I I I don't what when I meet people who who are similarly situated and see you know and they're like oh I like the cubs and the white sox office of the day with productivity makes him the most agile speedy reader and editor and so actually the thing that he's he's just capable he's so ambidextrous kind of in his ability to do multiple things at once and just be very thorough and very speedy at once I've never met anyone like him a small market team for you know a team with with a huge payroll and about what I said was I have an American league slot vacant could drive me crazy in that I'm shamed by the fact that he's done seven books in the time it took me to do one I benefit from that you know because he just there are the signaling aspects of having such a rule the military has such a rule one can enforce strict codes when the participants attraction exists independent from the Corporate Org Chart People have relationships with subordinates all the time sometimes they marry subordinates cop actually you can't fuck your superior because that means they're fucking a subordinate you and that would be inappropriate so don't fuck up or down fucked workplace have few rights many colleges have such a code because they want to again signal to the world that they are foursquare against that sort of that is the ban they wanted to put in place for a few reasons one would be to make their workplace relatively free of scandal very important for Congress and too balances they're inherently coercive I believe that is overbroad that seems to be a bit of rhetoric that odd cast talked a little about Katie Hill today I wanted to play you what I thought was an interesting part of that squashing the Antonyms for subordinate is domino. Ordinance either it's superior but you know what you can't it's draft after draft and edits and edits and edits the same thing that makes him sort of scarily prolific into in the same thing that has him filling every way park every night I became friends with Doris Kerns Goodwin this sort of Another person who changed her loyalties are not changed her lawyer supplemented her it's easy when the dodgers yeah I really do what she's doing weighing less bad options and the stance she has decided to take is one of resignation coupled with indignation right now Katie hills twitter feed is filled with Katie Hill or whoever controls feed linking to sympathetic articles and neither where fares I mean if all parties are bored not an affair Katie Hill also want you to know that Time magazine wrote an essay described as Katie Hill Affairs that brought her down it was revenge porn well I want to be clear here one of the affairs alleged one was confirmed and I think technically logical the question this raises is should every workplace have this rule there is a move to say when relationships are based on power they do it's a cute story about how they met not a horrible story of the perils of power imbalance I agree with Dan it's not necessarily unethical in many circumstances any laterally or you know don't have people who work for you or people you work for or people you work with because you don't want to be fucking someone with less power borrows from the world of theory that fails when applied in the world of the actual world as Dan Savage says what you know or or you know I'm I live in Connecticut so I you know I'm happy I mean most years the Yankees or the Red Sox will make the place as someone who may feel coerce pressured just like punching down in comedy power is relative and there are power differentials that have nothing to do with our work true for many walk of life flat-out ban on any subordinate having a relationship with anyone in a supervisory position would be unfeasible but for Congress aces and forbidding sacks or dating in the workplace it could have the opposite of the intended effect because when it comes to saks forbidding something doesn't always make male members of Congress who resigned after allegations like sexual misconduct such as Blake Farren fold or representative John Conyers also have nots seen their bodies plastered across websites when she writes that she ignores the fact that that's exactly what happened the Joe Barton his nude photos with the coupling a university is an ideologically driven workplace it may be one of the few workplaces in the world that exists to be ideological and even when the ideas subordinate and a superior to couple but if Katie Hill agrees with that premise she is doing nothing to fight for that 'cause I understand no longer exists if it's true but you could some people follow them West but but what I said at the time because I felt incredibly guilty at the time not least because it was like selling out national inquiry that might have cleared her or might not have now the other part of this description Katie Hill is the first millennial lawmaker to resign because nudes is the word millennial she's not the first lawmaker to leave office because of nudes Republican Joe Barton of Texas sixty nine years old at the time change well we have an example of a man at the center of a scandal where the scandal doesn't really change that would suggest that something other than gender is the total well not want to do it Dan goes on says general rule members of Congress coupling with subordinates not a great thing Bush an act shocked when it happens that's of black male or Charlotte climber who writes Katie Hill wasn't held accountable she was thrown on a pyre for the benefit of Katie Hill linked to a threat by Fain Greenwood threat included this quote unfortunately world where everyone has bad internet photos will still ship with the campaign staff or she did originally dismiss it as a smear then she admitted to it then she resigned over it by the way her resignation also pulled the plug on except Joe Barton got the same exact treatment is a man vox then quotes Brianna whoo a candidate for Congress in Massachusetts and an advocate for interviews so here's some of what Katie Hill wants her twitter followers to know USA Today former Rep Katie hills defenders say it wasn't the time was subject to nude pictures of himself being circulated on twitter in an attempt to shame him he quickly announced he would not seek reelection the female staffer who Katie Hill had a relationship with a man the people who wrote to Congressional Code of ethics disallowing relationships between members of Congress and staffers had in mind when Anna North in Vox writes quote media outlets didn't promote scrutiny of Al Franken's body or of his sex life outside of misconduct allegations other Barack Obama said he appreciated the discussion of some of the revelations someone close to Donald Sterling likely broke the law leaking tapes that were made without way the Daily Mail and other websites encourage readers to examine her naked body is inextricably tied to the fact that he'll is a woman privacy legislation as saying quote you cannot even imagine this happening with a male congressman except you can because it did to Joe Barton of Texas Darlings Consent California being two party consent state for taping but knowing what we know about Donald Sterling do we then say well I guess it's okay olds obscured ran in the Daily Mail and yet she goes on to assert everything about hill story from the way it became public to the this to alleged sexism helps to consider what is the independent variable and what's to control if you change the gender of the person in the middle of the scandal does the scandal your world where straight white men's bad internet photos hurt

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She Will Rise: Fighting Nonconsensual Pornography with Katie Hill

Alyssa Milano: Sorry Not Sorry

51:34 min | 5 months ago

She Will Rise: Fighting Nonconsensual Pornography with Katie Hill

"Hello podcast people are you subscribe to spotify yet I am and I love it so much spotify has a huge catalog of my favorite podcasts on every topic including mine. When you download spotify, you can follow your favorite podcast. So you never miss an episode premium users can download episodes listen to offline wherever you are, and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends on instagram. How cool is that? So if you haven't done so. Be sure to. The spotify APP search for Illicit Milano. Sorry. Not Sorry on spotify or Browse podcasts in your library tab also make sure to follow me so you never miss an episode. Hi I'm Melissa Lotto and this is sorry not sorry. Last, year Katie Hill left the house after her abusive ex husband released personal for. Of. Her without consent and a swarm of Misogyny and puritanical faux outrage of these photos. The thirty year old congresswoman was railroaded out of office. But Katie's not done. Since, leaving office, she started a pack, a podcast and the author of the newly released book she will rise. I love her so much. Enjoy. We're going to take a look at California Congressional District Twenty five or thirty, one year old first time candidate Katie Hill is running against Republican incumbent, Congressman Steve Knife Republican come Steve has conceded to his Democratic rival Katie. Hill? We all know that you don't need to have an explicit quid pro quo for it to be a threat or intimidation last night I announced the most difficult decision of my life that would be resigning from. Congress our community will no longer be subjected to the pain inflicted by my abusive husband and the brutality of hateful political operative leaving because of a misogynistic culture that gleefully consumed my naked pictures capitalized on my sexuality and enabled my abusive acts to continue that abuse this time with the entire country watching I'm Katie Hill and I'm dedicating the next chapter of my life overthrowing old white men and replacing them with young women. Sorry not sorry. Katie when this episode airs, it will have been about nine months since you left Congress? Can you just give us an update on what you've been up to and how you've been doing it's hard to believe that it's been nine months already and also that it's only been nine months I feel like my world is just completely changed in a way that's reflected in the world as a whole but right after it was just a real tragedy. But shortly after I resigned just over two months after I resigned my brother who was twenty years old passed away by an accidental drug overdose and. My mom was still in hospital having just had brain surgery when that happened, and so it's really been just kinda tragic time for our family. But at the same time, I was able to dive into reading books and starting my pack her time, and we're trying to roll forward and figure out the next step for my life I. Guess I. Just WanNa talk about how you were able to cope with that much devastation in such a small amount of. Like for me, this year has been so much about just accepting the imperfection of life and how hard it can be an even if it's not a personal experience I think that collectively what we're dealing with right now is just a collective trauma. So tell me how you were able to cope or did you just stay in bed which is totally fine too I mean I've had those years too there was definitely some of that. There's no doubt that I just stay in bed and I think that most people who've been through trauma and probably even just existing this year that's. been the case for a lot of people is just depression will get the better of you sometimes, and it will feel like an impossible task to get out of bed or off the couch or even do the most basic chores are the dishes or anything and on days when I'm feeling better sometimes it's to me how hard the most basic things can feel. My family has been just so much of a support, my mom, my sister, my grandmother and I actually like the chain of women have gotten I would say much closer in the last six months to a year then probably. I always considered close especially, my mom and my sister like we all the time. Especially, my brother's death brought us together and live with my mom when I'm in California now and leaning on family who's been I, think the number one thing but also trying to dive into a project that I care about and I think it was in a way a perfect time because I wrote the book in about a month just totally diving one, hundred percent like my life was the book it was all in but I think if I hadn't had that 'cause it was like I'm came back to Washington DC on March fifteenth and April sixth was my first. Draft do and so that the higher time was the very beginning quarantine and I like I wouldn't have been able to leave my apartment anyway because of the book and so coincided well, and I really just feel like one data time you know today I'm excited because I'm GonNa go see a friend she's renting a beach house and I'm GonNa go see her but even today was hard to just get ready or get up and ask why I'm excited about something today i WanNa talk about your book but it's amazing to me that in my darkest moments how almost impossible it feels to do the things that I know you're GonNa make me feel better. I don't know what it is about human nature that that's part of it. But in my worst I have had a few mental hardships. I have anxiety disorder and I've had some really big crisis situations where it's gotten pretty gnarly and in the thick of it I know right in my head Mike Okay I. know if I got up right now and if I walked barefoot outside in the grass that would make me feel better I know if I. Did Twenty minutes of Yoga. If I just did twenty minutes of Yoga Right now, that would make me feel better that's processing in my head, but I cannot bring myself to do it. Then I know that if I get up and I like make some food or if I get up and I forced myself to work out for just even ten minutes. Yeah. You'll feel better in just keeps you going but it's almost like an inertia in an exaggerated. Where generating enough force to move yourself is next to impossible and I think for people who haven't experienced these kinds of challenges whether it's an anxiety disorder or depression or anything like that. It can be very difficult to explain because they're like. You can't get up and go outside for a walk. Why don't you just get out of bed? There's a lot of that like why don't you? Just that's now imagine thirty, five, forty years ago when there wasn't this kind of willingness to talk about it. Well, I found out through the course of reading my book I end up telling a lot of my grandmother's story in the book and of course of it, I found out that my great grandmother who's her mother people in the family had always just oh, she was crazy or whatever. Right I thought that from the time that she was really young she was getting shocked she was in an institution. For. Like one through over the CUCKOO's nest kind of thing, and so who even knows what was quote unquote wrong with her at the beginning like maybe she was just depressed probably because it was a really life for women time or who even knows what maybe she stood up against her husband and it just resulted in her getting electroshock. I WANNA say determines electroshock therapy but obviously, the electroshock abuse is more like what it was then yeah it's much different now and there are lots of people that do it that have positive experiences but don't know what it is about families how they don't tell. The entire story like my grandmother is a Gora phobic hasn't with thousand thirty, five years literally. But that part of the story where it was a clinical diagnosis was left out until just recently, it was more like, yeah she doesn't like to go outside she is a home body. It was more like that I'm actually taking a psychology class because I started to see signs in my daughter of potential anxiety which I'm hoping is just me being neurotic but I was like, okay how can I heal my child? So I, started a somatic experiencing class and the thing that I've really learned is that we have. Genetic disposition to certain mental illnesses, and then it is trauma that can make that into something that is chronic and debilitating, and so I just find it. So fascinating and also the thing that I'm learning is that we just hold it all in our bodies. Even if we think that we're overcoming whatever by sitting in a therapy session with a therapist that could be true but your body is actually holding onto experiences and trauma I actually sometimes especially before I was really good about going to therapy I figured out that it was my body that would tell me how stressed I was because I just. Wouldn't recognize it but then I would start to have just weird physical symptoms that didn't make sense and then I'll be like, okay, something else is off here. You know we almost have to just be mindful that we have to seal from the bottom up the practice of mindfulness is paying attention to the present moments while your mind may try to go to the past through the future you try to discipline your mind and to increase your awareness of the present moment what's going on around you but also what's going on inside of you so you can better understand your own habits, your own emotional states. And the benefits are remarkable and being proven more and more each day by the research they reduce stress increased focus. Keep you healthier because it boosts your immune system make better decisions somewhere in your body. You're probably storing the trauma of losing her brother whether you feel that now or twenty years from now, like at some point, it's going to take a toll and it's why are native Americans used dance around a fire when they had a hard day or why people in villages still in Africa will dance around a fire and it's to get out whatever it is in their bodies and we've so lost touch of that plus the body is just become about looking good in a bikini. So well, I am so happy to talk about your. Book which is called. She will rise becoming a warrior in the battle for true equality. So exciting I can't wait to read it. Tell me what does true equality mean to you that's a great question. So for me, it basically comes down to do we have truly equal access to power and money and everything that comes with that, and if we do that means that the systemic barriers that are in place are in fact going to in and of themselves be broken down because the people who are controlling, it are no longer the ones who are trying to hoard the power right? So I think that there the obvious thing. We need to have power over on bodies need to have equal pay. When I think however on bodies I mean access to abortion need have the things that we talk about all the time. But there's this underlying aspect that is kind of how entrenched sexism and Misogyny goes that we have to be rooting out as well and I know with everything that's happened during this presidency, it can be easy for a single issue to get. Kinda lost right. For example, women's issues often get lumped in as a single category, but the point of the book is to say that we have an agenda for feminism agenda for what it's GonNa. Take to get the true equality, and this is what we have to stay focused on day in and day out and you know I know a quality is a much bigger issue than women alone. It's far more stage right to get to equality for women of color is GONNA be different instead a lot harder than quality for white women but it's still something that when you have levels of power where some people are kept out of it nationally or even unintentionally then our world isn't going to be the place that needs to be and I think that women have to be the ones who are leading us out of this. If you haven't heard about anchor let me tell you a little bit about it. It is the easiest way to make a podcast I've just joined and I can't tell you how much I love it, and here's a few reasons why It's free. It's super easy to create and record podcasts right from your computer literally, anyone can do it. Anchor handles all of the distribution. All you have to do is record or. Your podcast and then they send it out to spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere else and get this anchor can help you get paid for podcasting without any minimum listener number. Everything you need to make your podcast is in one place at anchor, download the free anchor APP or go to anchor dot F.. M. To get started. Speaking of the different sub sects of equality. I, mean you were the first LGBTQ member of Congress elected from California and you were also under thirty when you decided to run and then just over thirty when you took office, do you think any of those elements changed the way you were treated well I definitely think that a misunderstanding or a bias again back by played into it. Your story exploded and I guess political scandals explode to some some degree. But how much of it is tied to the fact in your mind that you're bisexual I think a lot of it is and it's also partly because I'm a woman, we haven't seen as many right of the sex scandals with women, but the bisexuality is is a huge part of it. This is. There's a fantasy element of there's by phobia that is rampant, still and certainly misunderstanding of what bisexual bisexuality is and it's sensationalizing right? It's the headlines are much much better than just oh, congresswoman has you know affair with a former campaign staffer. It was sensationalized right and I would say that that made for great fodder for the cyber exploitation that was used against me and I think the fact that I'm young right like I was the third youngest member I think I think it was ABC thinking are, and then me ever that was ever elected grand not just now. But in history and I think that when you embody some of those factors that are scary to the establishment scary to the status quo, the people who are currently in charge. Then those are your vulnerabilities those are. The things that makes them even more likely to want to attack you offended by how much you speak out how much you're claiming your feet at the table. But did you know that going in? It's always theoretical right or something that you've experienced in a certain sense what I wasn't ready for was my own family or personal city and getting so messy right I talked about that in my book, a lot is wouldn't abusive relationship can look like you'd never know right I didn't ever look like I mean I was gaining power I was. Put up this incredible friend like you just wouldn't know that that was the situation in our relationship. But I think that that's the harsh reality that I was really not prepared for the consequences of I. Didn't think that he would go as far as he did and denial I guess is what it boils down to I just didn't think it was possible I want to back up for just a second and I want you from your voice in your words to give. My listeners your stories so that it's not filtered through any media lens tell everybody exactly. What happened the June of Twenty nineteen I decided I, had to leave my husband. So I laugh he actually was technically the one who filed for divorce, but that was my intention. But in the course of all of that in the course of trying to leave him, he said I will ruin you and that was a threat that scared me but I didn't know what it meant. In two, thousand, seven I had a partner that I shared naked pictures with when I was pretty young. In two thousand eleven, my email was hacked into or entered by a person that I don't know who is and. They took. These pictures and they uploaded all of this online with. An encouragement to harass me these pictures were sent to people on my facebook friends list sent to my family I. Very quickly understood. You know you can't keep the secret because they don't allow you to keep it a secret because the point is to destroy your life turns out that he had not only released pictures of me but he had taken pictures that I didn't even know about saved them and had been posting them online on. Like swingers site and on read it things like that that I had no idea was happening. So after I left him, some time passes and five months later he ended up I, don't know exactly how it happened but there was zero other way that those pictures could have gotten out into the University of and existed except for through my ex-husband does we're really sitting right wing media and ultimately it led to a revelation that I had A. Relationship with someone who works on my campaign and I admitted to that and let the mistake that I made and it's always more complicated than it appears but it's not something that I should have done. But my husband also accused me of having a relationship with one of my congressional staffers which I didn't which my staffer also denied, and which would be against the rules, but he made that accusation and not cause the ethics committee to open. An investigation that would have been to my entire office and would have caused a great deal of trauma to my staff and ultimately I decided with that and how we were moving into impeachment and how I was currently a leader in the freshman class I was a freshman representative leadership. I was the vice chair on oversight. I decided that I would better serve the district and my staff and the caucus and everyone else if I stepped aside. There's a problem with the term revenge porn because it implies A. There's something to be taking revenge four right that the woman maybe did something wrong in the first place. And pornography also could imply that it was it was consensual and it's not what I did not predict was that the district was gonna immediately foot back to Republican, which is what happened in the special election, and now we have to win it back in November to me. It seems very much like you were totally railroaded out of office because you actually had the audacity to be a woman with a sex and love life that might not have fit into what some might. Think of as traditional bounds. But I mean huck we see male members of Congress have repeated affairs. We have a president who is a sexual Predator who paid off a porn star and on and on and on and like that. So I still can't figure out why your consensual relationship was treated. So differently, do you think if it wasn't the impeachment coming up and you were just like, yeah. Fine. I'm not going to step down because this happens all the time do you Think that you would still be an office I think. So honestly, I don't know whether that would have been the right thing. The wrong thing I know one thing that I did one was to take it off the table whether we being hypocrites or not whether I was being hit not because I knew that I wasn't going to change my position or be able to back down on how I'm a champion for women's issues how do feel about women and the ways that We've been treated historically especially as victim whether it's in the workplace or right just life in general sexual abuse victims and I figured and you know everything was a blur of course then but I didn't want it every single action that I took be like well, you did the you did this and you used your power granted. That's what they do now but I can always say, well, I did the thing that I think other people should be held to the expectations of. I don't know that that was the right call I know that it's devastating that the district looked back. I know that it's not the way you know people say, Oh, that's the way the district voted well, the turnout was abysmal and it was the first all male election that had ever been done in California and there's a whole analysis on why that's not representative of the district. But my hope is that it goes back to I get such a testament to what a special candidate you were that you took that district. That was historically always red and made it blue and I know at this point you're probably upset that it switched back to read, but that's where it always was. So instead of feeling shitty about that, just hide realize how special you are. That is your power and I also think that you have this really unique insight into the ways. Women are sexualize differently than men and punished for it. I mean not only from your own experience but from your time investigating trump's affair with story daniels and the payments that happened to her. On February Thirteenth Twenty eighteen Mr Cohen you sent a statement to the reporters that said quote I own funds to facilitate a payment of one hundred, thirty, thousand dollars to Miss Stephanie Clifford and neither the trump organization nor the trump campaign was party to the transaction with Miss Clifford and neither reimbursed me for the payment either directly or indirectly was the statement faults. I purposely left out Mr trump individually from. The two of you were vilified A. Different way than men are treated. So what do you think that says about us as a culture and specifically about how our culture treats women in or in proximity to power? I think it's how it treats women in proximity to power but it's also how it treats women in proximity the sex or in relation to sex, and you're right that if sex looks different than missionary style and you're married or at least Hetero than like it's weird to a Lotta people and bisexuality in particular is something that even a lot of well-meaning accepting folks don't understand and so I think that that's part of it. Right? Just like inherently either is sensationalized. Or Weird to people. It makes you seem like something different or there's a fantasy element as well. So I think that's one piece of it. But I also think that when you are a woman in power, you have different ways of asserting your power right or how you kind of have to accommodate. In fact that you are woman and I'm not one who has shied away from my sexuality. I've worn outfits that are feminine I Wear High Heels I've embraced for. Who I am and I know a lot of other people have to but that's also I think something that scares a lot of men in power. It's disarming and it saying that I'm not only here at this table but I'm GonNa do it my own way and it's definitely a different way than you're accustomed to write go because we always had to fit into these conforms of what women power should look like or be like, and then you add any sort. Of you know you're a woman who's by and then they're like, wait what this is too much for me. Do you know what? I mean? There's this element of like if it were one thing, maybe that would be okay but she's young. You know an ageism is a very real thing in politics and the thing is, is that I don't know how this story wasn't about nonconsensual porn and Internet exploitation because there's a very specific violation here in your case. And I wanted to discuss that for a minute because you had to bear the consequences of his really horrible actions and do you consider what happened to you Internet exploitation or nonconsensual porn? then. Okay. So how do we fight this? Well, I'm going to be filing a lawsuit against the media companies that did it. It's a long story as to why it takes as long as it does and I can't really get into it for legal reasons but that is coming and I don't know if we're GONNA be successful or not. But I think that it's important for the sake of future cases like this that. You can't publish stuff like that and you can't do it under the guise of public interest. If photos are released nonconsensual especially nude photos, there's nothing acceptable about that in terms printing it in any kind of media. So that's one thing but there are, and this is in the book you their real legislative priorities and solutions ways that we can come out at, but there has to be a will and there has to be. Drive you so and the only way that that happens if there's pressure state laws can vary widely, some criminal remedies can include harassment nonconsensual pornography laws and invasion of privacy, and these remedies can range from misdemeanors felonies. So California was one of the first states to have laws around this two, thousand thirteen, they banned unconsented pornography, which requires that an image of sexual explicit nature be sent without the persons consent and that it likely. Causes Emotional Distress someone convicted of this face, a misdemeanor charge and faces up two thousand dollar fine and six months in jail in new. York, there was no revenge porn law until two thousand nineteen. Now anyone sharing intimate or sexual videos or photos of a victim with can sent is facing potentially a class. A. Misdemeanor person convicted of that crime could face up to a year in jail or three years probation and a thousand dollar. Fine Right now. It's not even a crime in most states. How is that possible? Because people just eight lawmakers are old and don't understand the Internet in a lot of places right and be there is this very strong mentality that well, you shouldn't send those pictures if you don't want them like this to happen that was pervasive in mind to and I was like I didn't even take the pictures or send them. They were ones that my husband had. Taken a hat but even if I had taken the pictures and sent them doesn't make it. Okay. Right. That doesn't justify what he did. So I think what has to happen is that in resources need to be in place that victims need to be able to come forward about this and truly be held accountable and one of the ways to do that is that the platforms themselves and able these kinds of pictures or videos or whatever it. Might be to be posted have to be able to be held accountable to and sections. Thirty has come up recently because of Donald Trump saying abolishes section two, thirty of the Communications Decency Act because he wants to shut down twitter for quote, Unquote censoring him because there's fact checking his tweets, but that's not what section to thirty s about. But section two thirty does need to be reformed in my opinion because it has let tech companies. Pretty much in no way police the actions of users on their platforms as it relates to cyber exploitation, and that's going to be an important element to addressing this overall. So I think as this book releases, the next step to that is the legislative agenda I. Guess kind of like the feminist agenda in the book is going to become sort of focus for my pack her time, and we're going to be an am the elections in. November helping a number of women candidates to try to get them through especially into the house and into the Senate, and then after that, though to me is where November fourth is going to be just as important as November third for us to sustain a movement and to sustain the change that has to happen. I'm praying to every God or power that might exist that Biden win. But even if he does then our were cast to. Continue Way I think that's one of the mistakes that we as Democrats have historically made is that we just get the White House and then we're like, okay and that's certainly not going to be the case now because honestly I don't know why anyone would want to be a president right now to call it now so much to fix I've been watching the last six months even just being like, wow, I don't envy my colleagues right now. Yeah you know what? I will never forget your speech on the floor. This is the last speech that I will give from this floor as a member of Congress. I wasn't ready for my time here to to end so soon. It's a reality I'm still grappling with and I will be for a long time to come. I expected or at least hope to be here for as long as the voters of California's twenty. Fifth. District deemed me worthy of the honor of representing them. I thought I could make a difference here in making our communities, our great country and the world a better place for generations to come. I like. So many of my colleagues France office because I believe that our political system was broken controlled by the powerful and the wealthy ignoring and failing the regular people that it's supposed to serve. I came here to give a voice to the unheard in the halls of power. It was so powerful and you were so amazing and I kept thinking I think said this you last time i. saw you. I would have been a mass I. Don't think I could have given that speech like the way in which you did it I think I would have been like. A. Bit Sobbing uncontrollably, and you are so together and so poised and graceful you dealt with it with such grace what refilling on the inside though it was the process leading up to that speech that was the hard part right and for me at least I knew that I had to put on my makeup and I put on my battle uniform you know in the readdress and the Red Lipstick and I thought as my warpaint and I was like I'm going to give this in A. Meaningful Way and I have to show my strengths because more than anything else. I felt like I couldn't show that I had been beaten they're broken and even though I was stepping down it didn't mean that I was going away and I think that's probably what pisses people off more than anything that I haven't just gone away I see that in my mentions all the time like why won't she just shut up and go away and it's like well, that's not what I'm GonNa do. I didn't get to this point to waste the platform that I do have and not use it for change and I didn't inspire all of these young people and women just to let them all down and say that it was worth nothing. So I felt like I had to do that I had to show that strengthen the resignation speech and to me resignation speech in a Lotta ways has kind of been my roadmap moving out of it right and even kind of led me to. When I was going to focus on in the book was sort of based on what I said I would do and my resignation speech, which is find a way of getting to quality and fighting for that every step of the way. Let me ask you this. Do you think that there's room for like honest discussion of mental health challenges from someone who holds or is seeking office or is the stigma just too great or need to be real conversation in the days after your resignation you? Seem like you're very close to suicide. What stopped you from taking that final fatal stab it was my family and it was the people who I knew it would. For lack of a better word break but I knew of all the girls and young women who looked up to me, who saw this happen to me if the ultimate outcome was that this destroyed me. and. I committed suicide. What does that tell? And that that couldn't be my final story I talked about it a little bit in terms of my depression when I was running but it's seen as a s now or people are afraid that it seen as a weakness even though the reality is that most Americans have or will experience some kind of mental illness in their lifetime but it still taboo and it has to change for us to truly treat it like a medical condition, which is what it is right But in a hall has so many factors involved socioeconomic and it's not something that you can just stick with the medication maybe that's part of it. But Anyway, my point is that the less we have leaders who are willing to speak about their own experiences the less we're going to be able to address it on the scale, but it needs to be and I found that when I was talking about it on the campaign trail, people were just so grateful that I was. Dave experience and don't feel like they have the ability to talk about themselves. So I think it can happen I think depression probably becoming the most normalized probably because it's the most common and the suicide epidemic is becoming so great. But maybe that's a start and the other thing is people just more broadly. That recovery, right. We talk about recovery in the mental health professions but I don't think that the general public really understands what that means and for me that hopefully, along my path, I'm going to be talking about that too. If you have been struggling recently with stress and anxiety than the daily shine podcast is a show that is here to help you. This podcast was created by two women of color who didn't see themselves or their experiences reflected in the mainstream wellness community through their podcast they are on a mission to make caring for your mental and emotional health easier and bring more representation and inclusion into the wellness space. They also have this free self care APP that will help you rest, heal and grow through difficult circumstances. The APP aims to help you make caring for your mental health a daily habit by the use of meditations affirmations end journaling. If the daily shine podcast sounds like the podcast for you. You can tune in into episodes every week day so that you can never miss a beat listen now to the daily shine podcast on spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. I want to shift gears for a minute and talk about your experience. In Congress when you were there, was it what you expected what was it like? People always ask me that question and when I was there I answered truthfully that I didn't have a set of expectations going in. So it was hard for it to be wasn't what you expected or not because I was like I didn't know what to expect. One of the surprises was that when I got there I felt immediately like I was able to have a voice I thought that I was going to be up against. Leadership even within the Democratic Caucus that didn't these newcomers to come in and shakes but I didn't find that to be the case I found that of the members of Congress who'd been there for a long time really did welcome the change wanted to see it but I also was struck every single time by just how difficult thing were how slow they were, how gummed up they can be how in order to get anything past. That has almost be fit into these massive packages of legislation that turn them into these monsters. I learned so much about what I think is broken within the system and to be able to change it, you really are going to have to have a pretty massive overhaul in a very short period of time. I. Don't think that you can continue to spread it out over time like, okay. We'll have casual turnover because then the systems. Become a replaceable because this is simply become ingrained and how they operate it, and then it goes to the next to the next to the next. But if you have a kind of massive turnover I'm not saying entire congress at once by any means. But if we turn over I, think twenty five percent of Congress. Last time if we over another twenty five percent this time and another twenty five percent, and then within a very short. You've got entirely new leadership and you have people who are willing to take a look at those real structural barriers. But if you have an adversarial relationship with the other side that is still focused on stupid things like trying to take away women's reproductive rights or take away our healthcare or give tax breaks to the wealthy like you're not going to be able to make those kinds of reforms or. Changes because the other side is fighting all the way. So for me until that changes until the Republican side changes are they're voted out enough that we have the power required, it's going to be very difficult. I think that the systemic change has to happen pretty much replacing the whole Republican Party, but it also just feels like we're just at this point where divisiveness is basically a form of negotiation and I don't know how we get past that and by the way I feel like it's within our own party too I. You participated in Party leadership. Do you think that the party is as divided on the inside as it appears on the outside? No I don't outside divided on the inside as people like to make no. Now the within Congress right and that's not to say that there isn't pretty. Fundamental disagreements on a lot of things but the division is something within the Party itself is something that the media loved to play. But I think that that's partly because twitter is an exaggerated form of everything and so you really see this clash between Bernie and the Biden folks or the far left in the moderates I get attacked constantly by the far left and I consider myself pretty damn progressive. So. I think if you're looking at that then yes, it looks incredibly divided and the way that the primaries played out just because of the nature of primaries I think made that look worse than it really is and there's leftovers from what happened with filler and burning last time. So there's certainly repairs that need to happen but I will say is that it became clear to me that on ninety nine percent of everything most Democrats agree that may not mean that we're focusing. On the same things are that were prioritizing or moving in bath or whatever that's the negotiation that should be happening as far as I'm concerned right and that's the fight that should be happening. That's healthy tension. We're there to represent the ELECTA and if the people that are like you do so because you're championing massive overhaul of the healthcare system doing something like going for Medicare for all, then you should be fighting with everything you've got to do that and that means. Is GonNa try and do it more slowly and you have to fight that that means that you're going to be kind of opposed to them. So I don't think that that's bad and what I think Nancy Pelosi deserves a lot of credit for is that she has always been really good at holding her caucus together and we have seen that play out in a really important way in the last couple of years because what people forget it you can think about how well we the House and not much has come of it. But we just have to imagine we didn't flip the house in two, thousand, eighteen how catastrophic it all would have been because it is and has been the only thing that stops the president and Mitch McConnell from doing the most unbelievable damage that we can even imagine, and so it was important. It just might not be making the forward progress that we want as much as it is a backstop preventing the country from falling apart even worse than it has since trump got elected the fact that the speaker is kept the caucus. Tony. I think is a testament to the fact that Democrats truly are pretty united when it comes to most important issues and that there can be a debate about priorities and there can be debate about approach or the details of things. But fundamentally, our values are aligned and they're diametrically opposed to the republican quote unquote values, and that's what to me is the most important thing for us to start to really focus on. So any energy that is about party divisiveness needs to be shifted to how do we get rid of all these Republicans that right shouldn't be there what do you think the elections going to look like in November? You mean, the results are just all of it Oh God I would. Say my opinion on that SORTA fluctuated day I'm really hopeful that Biden. Win. 'cause I don't think that people have the complacency that they had the last time right and I think that people aren't just GonNa be like, Oh, well, by winning in the polls, everything will be fine. Did that before right? We're not gonNA stick again but I do worry About how the pandemic is GonNa play out how voter suppression is GonNa turn out how even if we're switching to vote by mail that's a massive change for people on how are we going to make sure that everyone knows how to do it. I keep thinking about the fact that young people probably have never e mailed the letter before in their lives. Right like is. Young people move a lot and so their addresses change a lot and it's difficult for them to get the balance sometimes, and I'm definitely worried about the fact that if there aren't enough in person foreign places still I actually really do worry about Democratic turnout even though we're the ones who are fighting for elections, it's not like a simple. Okay. Everyone by mail and everything's fine so. I think that that has to be a big focus and I certainly think that trump has made it pretty clear that he's not going down easy. Even if that means cheating somehow and I have a hard time visualizing him peacefully stepping down a hate to even say that but I don't know what the fuck that's GonNa look like he keeps planting the seeds I mean he's trying. To defend the post office, if people don't think that's about mail-in ballots, but it also feels to me like we need to be having these conversations in a more aggressive way right now like free postage like who's going to pick up the ballots if they're not mailed, all the ballots have to count and just to raise awareness right and that every state is so different. So what? Do we do do we adopt states and try to get the word out as influencers like it just feels so insurmountable and that's exactly what he wants. It absolutely is what I will say is the most manageable way to think about things like let's just say you're an activist in a very blue part of the country, which is probably fairly likely for a lot of your listeners. The most manageable thing to think about is like, okay, we have to flip these Senate racist to 'cause even if Joe Biden, we have a Democratic president. We don't flip the Senate we're still not going to be able to do anything. So we have to flip the Senate and the Senate seats that are in play are also swing states that we need to win in order to win the presidency. So if you're working on a Senate campaign. Then you're also inherently working on the presidential there because any kind of organizing effort the state level is going to impact the top of the ballot. Basically, if you start at the bottom of the ballot, it will help pop. But if you help the top of the ticket, it doesn't necessarily help people down ballot. So let's say you pick North Carolina for example, because there's an important Senate race there and a whole bunch. Of districts that are in played congressional districts because it's been redistricted, and then you pick a congressional district or to, and that's where you get involved because that allows you to give a very tangible reason that you can focus on her campaign and I do wish there were more ways that this can be organized or platforms organized I. Think Indivisible has some good tools I think swing less has some good tools they all need to. Get on the same page I feel sometimes, they functioned so fragmented and it can get confusing I mean look what we're dealing with just with pandemic information rate because Federal State County Mayor's it's just also fragmented. That's how are Republicans setup, which is like different level of power that do very different tasks like your city government needs to be very different from what you're doing federally people forget how much power is concentrated in local governments. Because of that, the black lives matters protests, the things that need to be changed for racial justice in police departments overwhelmingly need to happen at the local level and I don't know that people fully understand that you know. I think that we donald trump is such a terrible character in as someone who's so embodies everything is awful. So it makes you think about the federal level, it gets the most attention but your mayor is the one who is going to have the most impact on who your police chief is and whether they doing reforms I really just have one more question for you. What's next the pack that? I started her time. We do have a number of candidates that were. Supporting moving into November and going to be looking at those races to see which ones we can have the biggest impact on whether it is micro targeting young voters especially, for example, who might need more information on how to vote by mail things like that that's where we can get the digital side and make an impact especially when it comes to voter outreach because voter education isn't working for candidate, which means our pack right and more money on it than it could just traditional pack donation right? That's GONNA. Take me through November after November I think that that's really where I wanNA focus on feminist agenda and November is really going to be the point at which we know what we can. And need to focus on next right if we have a all democratically controlled government if we have the House and Senate and the White House to me, that means there needs to be immediate mobilization on what is the first thing that has to get past well, we have that control. What are the things that we will not let our newly elected Democrats in charge not do like we insist on these things for me top of the agenda even as a feminist issue is getting big money out of politics and passing this year, it was introduced as H R one. It's a sweeping set of election reforms including making it possible for everyone to do million dollars including basically getting rid. Of gerrymandering all of that kind of stuff because if you don't do that, then my guess is that we lose the house again in the next midterms and twenty twenty two and we have to start everything over dot sounds right. I'm sort of looking at November third as the moment at which I figure out where I can be the most impactful in the next stage. Fortunately, I've decided now for the first time in my life to just take my time deciding, I wasn't planning on going into politics I went straight from being an executive director of a homeless services organization into politics and I was twenty nine at that point. So this is a pretty early point to have a third career. So I'm just GonNa Kinda try and figure that out. Well, it's a testament to how amazing you are please call on me if I could be of service and I will be watching you with so much love and pride Katie. Hill thank you so much for being a part of the podcast and for everything you do. To the boy who posted my naked pictures online? Thank you. For showing me that trauma need not live on your bones can hide on the web and still burn the same. Turning my organs into strands of telephone wire is catalogs of coffins to move in about damaged hard drive. I began to think of suicide like the light switch in my teenage depression close enough to reach. If I could just get out of bed we were texting once. told me that I looked like a starry night. Body was painted by Vincent Van Gogh Clean Show me a glimpse of your private art show. I said No. You begged for over a year. Sauce. And a light of my own screen and under the weight of your Raunchy request. I addressed. Kicked up my paintbrush and with shaky Hans. told me. I've never shown something so pure. So you said with a lower I'm sure it will be a masterpiece. I sent you still frame screen shots of my shallow stomach, the Pale, crescent moons of my breasts my face sitting fearful in every photograph told you lock them in your personal gallery plant them like seeds in your bone dry garden so as they could not grow higher than I could see them but somehow the seeds sprouted all over town. Teenage boys with Ben Down by flowers with sharp scissors and keep them in their gene pocket. Warning I grew glass menagerie limbs, smashed them on every sharp surface so as to make myself disintegrate. But my fragile fifteen year old flesh forever flourish on fire Fox or google chrome sprouting like weeds from my non consented clitoris dot com, my pixelated pink parts forever stretching into central screensavers for oversexed teenage boys who sold my body like a trading card you can't buy back. Every time I think of what was done to Katie my blood boils. She's smart. She's so smart. And energetic and full of patriotism and talent, and she is ready to change the world and instead of that as men love to do, they used a woman sexuality against her to try an end her career. It may have ended her first time in Congress, but it did not end her and I am so glad. But it is still true that she is the only person to have suffered consequences of these actions so far and she is the victim. WHAT THE FUCK This nonconsensual pornography is a sex crime. Let me say that again, sharing nude or sexual photos of women without their consent is a sex crime. Maybe not exactly legally yet but morally spiritually politically, and by the way viewing these photos seeking them out, you are participating in it if you sought out the keyhole video of Erin, Andrews if you Google the naked photos from the cloud leaks, if you have ever even once shown naked photos of your partner or former partner without their consent, you've participated in a sex crime. Shame on you Congress needs to enact federal legislation. Now, that would make sure that criminal punishments for violating women. In this way have real teeth. I want these men who release these photos in jail bankrupted and registered sex criminals for the rest of their lives. Yep. That's what I want. Because women should never again experience what Katie. has experienced. Sorry not sorry. Is Executive produced by a Lotta that's me. Our associate producer is Ben, Jackson, editing, and engineering by Natasha's Jake Guts and music by Josh, Cooke Alicia. Eagle and Milo Bully Ari. That's my. please. Subscribe on spotify tunes or wherever you get your podcasts and if you like the show please rate review and spread the word. Sorry.

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How To Survive a Public Shaming With Katie Hill

How To! With Charles Duhigg

35:43 min | 3 months ago

How To Survive a Public Shaming With Katie Hill

"This episode of how to is brought to you by ore-ida like it or not kids have their own rules. When it comes to the food, they eat one day they're picking all the Pepperoni pizza and the next day they're refusing to eat anything that's green the good news, the makers of or writer America's favorite fry created a simple method to help parents regain control at dinnertime it's called potato pay. It's easy in exchange for eating their Broccoli cauliflower. You offer your kids serving of golden crispy fries as compensation. Later in the show, listen to how one parent Mandy discovers how she can use potato pay to get her kids to eat their veggies. Do you. Remember when that kind of hit you where all of a sudden you just felt shame. Oh, at the moment is completely unforgettable. It's when my staff walked into my office with just completely ashen faces. And turned her phone towards me and it was it was one of the naked photos. Welcome to how to I'm Charles Duhig. Each week on the show, we try to solve listeners problems, and usually those struggles are pretty relatable. Family conflicts or worse troubles or how to lose. Weight. But. This week's listener is going through an experience that very few people can relate to. My name is Katie Hill former congresswoman from California and currently the author of she will rise. If you know the name Katie Hill, it's probably not just because she was elected to Congress in two thousand eighteen. At the age of thirty one katie was one of the youngest woman ever elected to the House of Representatives and she did so by flipping a historically red district in California to blue, she was brought into Nancy Pelosi Circle and she seemed destined for a bright future in the Democratic Party. But. Then just a year after she was elected. Everything began to fall apart my estranged ex husband he decided to release naked images of me, and so those were those were published on Red State which is a right wing blog and in the daily mail and it revealed that I had had a relationship with a woman who had worked on my campaign and ultimately it just kept coming kept coming these photos they dribbled out for days on blogs and social media creating this huge firestorm she was a rising star in the democratic nude pictures of Hill in the campaign staffer were published online identifies as bisexual. Noticeably absent from the halls of Congress today to some People Katie was the embodiment of cyber exploitation of victim of vengeful ex husband. Others though said, Katie was victimized or herself the House Ethics Committee announced that it was investigating Katie for being involved with a male member of congressional staff, which is an allegation that Katy has and continues to deny. But she did admit to having a romantic relationship with a female subordinate who worked on her campaign. and. That wasn't technically against congressional rules. But it seemed uncomfortably close to situations of bosses had slept with their employees. Into Katie. All of this the attacks in the nonstop questions from reporters. It all filled completely overwhelming. My initial reaction was, of course I can survive this. Especially, if you look at who our president is and just so many scandals that especially male politicians have survived, but it was just the sense that it would never end as starting to feel more and more like a like a pariah like people couldn't trust me and just this over Wyoming weight of knowing that. So many people had seen these photos and had this horrible of who or what I am. That was not consistent with the way that I saw myself in the work that I was trying to do. It just felt so. Insurmountable. So Katie retreated I holding up in her apartment and then eventually she resigned recede in Congress. To my family, my friends, my staff, my colleagues, my mentors to everyone who has supported and believed in me I am so so sorry. and to every little girl who looked up to me. I hope that one day you can forgive me. It's been a year now since that all happened it's taken me. You know every bit of time since then to sort of internalized that and try to. figure out how to how to kind of reclaim ownership of myself and my image in and. What that means for me and? It. Just felt like something that I could never get away from. And she still can't get away from it Ju just hours after we talked to her in fact, there was an announcement that Katie story was being turned into a Hollywood movie starring Elizabeth Moss but even then there was this flurry of controversy when someone identifying themselves as Katie's former staff posted a tweet saying how disappointed they were about the movie and and telling people not to glorify. Katie. For, over a year, it's felt to Katie like she can't escape like everything she does simply serves up a new dose of public shame. How do you survive that nagging worry. Every stranger you pass has seen naked pictures of you. How do you go on when your privacy has been violated this way? On this week show. How survive public shaming? After the break, we'll bring on an expert Jon Ronson to talk to Katie about her situation and about how others have gotten past scandals of their own. Stay with. US. Voting this year is trickier than usual and what you don't want to do is be the one sprinting to the mailbox trying to send in a minute vote or to get to the front line at the polls only to realize you're not registered. That's why facebook has created the voting information center whether you want to know how to register how to vote by mail or how to vote safely in person the voting information center can help you find the answers to your questions and make sure your vote is counted because a vote counted is voice heard for official information from election authorities visit facebook, dot com slash voting Info Centre. Honeymoon must my name is Henry. I am Palestinian from Syria. I live with my parents I am divorced with two kids. And he knows what life brings refugee in Lebanon. So does her friend gotTA is? My name is. I am Palestinian and I live in Rehab and I am nineteen years old they both faced significant hurdles in their search for suitable work and so together, they decided to make a big change. Would be selected for the Golden Scissors project. As we saw, it would be the only successful project enabling us to find work in the future. Something concrete on the ground. There gifted seamstresses and want others to develop the same skills, sewing garments and making handicrafts muscle. That teaches unemployed women and girls to earn a livelihood and support themselves and today the cove in nineteen pandemic poses even more financial and health challenges. We couldn't even around we stayed at home hopefully, if the pandemic ends in the Arab world, we will move on with the project should be obtained the financial assistance needed to launch it. Still, honey gotta have laid crucial groundwork in creating golden scissors at this critical time news. In in the community here, a lot of people so. A. Lot of people need to have their garments shorten. Schools and kindergartens need for instance aprons. There is continuous demand it does not stop. There's always demand. The crisis would not put an end to that. No one will live without close. To support the work of organizations like golden scissors visit UNICEF dot org if you can please consider donating. To understand what happened to Katie Hill it's worth deconstructing how most public shaming unfold these days that people who are both famous and and those who aren't. So he turned to Jon Ronson, a British journalist and author in a documentary filmmaker. But I'm here to talk about a book I wrote about Public Shaming. So you've been publicly shamed before we talked about Katie. Situation John wanted to tell us about another story that sort of shows how these public shaming play out the woman in this story felt like most of the world had turned against her overnight her name is Lindsay Stone. She was the lovely person she worked with adults with learning difficulties. She left her job they all left. She took the trip to Washington. DC and she had this sort of Dushi joke that she would share with her lend that they would post on facebook photographs of them doing the opposite to what aside was saying. So they would smoke inventive no-smoking side or or a step on the grass infanticide saying keep off the grass and so on. So they went to Arlington that's Arlington Cemetery where we bury American soldiers. And at the cemetery, there's a sign that says, silence and respect. and. So Lindsey took a jokey photo like she always does. Then he took a to has south attending to shouted flip the. Finger. Put It on facebook. To it just blew up. Backlash this snapshot of a local woman is getting her a lot of heat online and with her employer. This is Kimberly Brooklyn is live in Hyannis with the story. She stayed in every night getting more and more depressed. Anxious. Insomnia shouldn't go out for a year and a half suicide all my gosh. She was alone. She was completely alone. She would sit every night reading every comic. I. Read You some of the comments she. Lindsey stone hates the actually had hate soldiers who died in Foreign Wars you should Rutten Hal just pure evil Jesus and I think I think for people listening it's very easy to say like Oh, we'll just stop reading the comments but for for Lindsey, reading the comments slacker imperative I talked to Monica Lewinsky about this. Once why she found herself region, the comments advised seventy shames people do. She said I guess I was in shock. Maybe there's a twisted need to read the comments as a form of self preservation to be prepared for what may come down the pike like Lindsey Stone Monica Lewinsky. Katie. Hill also read all the comments that people posted online about her tried not to but yet Right, and I do wonder how much of my decision was really impacted by the toll that it on you mentally that you're not even making clear decisions you're making ones that are based on what feels like a survival mandate mate of like how can I keep going through this? How can I? How can I keep facing this every single day? What was the lowest moment for you? Like liquid was this sort of rock bottom moment during that period I was suicidal I I was you know I was drinking wrench of wine by myself and I basically can lock myself in my apartment. During all of this because I didn't feel like I could I could face anybody I was taking a bath and I know I basically had a very close experience with suicide and That was kind of the moment when I when I also knew that this wasn't something that was sustainable for me and I that was kind of what I knew that I. I couldn't keep going with this. When you decided to resign from Congress did that feel like To feel like you had a decision or did it feel like that was the only option? It was a decision but it also. was just a very isolating thing and there were there were these threats they were. They were saying that there were just hundreds of images and text messages and there was a file basically sabotage file that. Haven't gone public yet right just a few images had had come right. So I. Guess That's why it felt like there wasn't. A real option. You know I. IT sounds like now that you're in a place where you are surviving this scandal but. But obviously, your career as a as a congresswoman didn't survive it. Yeah. When you look back. Do. You. Wish you had done anything differently. I. Guess I wish that I had given it more time before I decided to step down like maybe I had. Stepped away for a bit said that I'm GonNa take some time with this But you know the truth is I feel like since I've resigned. and what I've been doing sense in terms of trying to help other women get elected and that I have sort of The. It gives me sort of a clean slate right that it that I know that I took the. You know the the ultimate punishment as it were right actually this happened still sometimes there were. Certain people who like reviewed my book and said, well, you know she doesn't apologize enough during it and I'm like how much more can you apologize like? What more can you ask for the fact that I step down? What do you do when you've already apologized stew when you've already suffered? But still people want more blunt. When it feels like the entire country. Won't ever let you forget what happened. We'll look at another case study in public shaming that might offer some lessons after this quick break. Support for how to comes from facebook. Voting this year is a little trickier than usual in what you don't want to do is the when sprinting to the mailbox trying to send in a last minute votes or get to the front of the line at the polls only to realize you don't have everything you need. And that's why facebook has created the Voting Information Center Whether you want to know how to register to vote by mail or vote safely in person the voting information center can help you find the answers to your questions and make sure that your vote is counted because vote counted is a voice her. For official information from election authorities visit facebook dot com slash voting Info Center. This episode of how to is brought to you by choice, algae a podcast from Charles. Schwab choice zoology is about the forces that affect our decisions from the day-to-day to the life changing, and it's hosted by Wharton Professor Decision Scientists Katie Milkman. Tune into hear her speaking with Nobel laureates bestselling authors, elite athletes, and more about why we do the things we do listen to choice allergy at Schwab dot com slash podcast or wherever you listen. If you like this episode, you might WanNa check out another episode called how to say the right thing at the worst time, which features a woman who lost her brother-in-law Dacoven nineteen and wrote in asking how to comfort her sister from a distance. We turn to a grief therapist who experienced her own tragic loss and learned what to say and what not to say to someone who's Grieving You can find it and all of our episodes by subscribing for free to our podcast. Feed We're back with Katie Hill expert Jon Ronson. John had told us that there's this one particular scandal he studied that reminded him a lot of Katie situation as kind of an extraordinary story because you would think this was a story where somebody would never survive the shaming and not only did Max Moseley survivor not survive with with a plumb. He actually ended up be more popular after his scandal that that. It been for for the person John is talking about Maximo. XLII is a formula, one racing executive in Britain and his scandal happened over a decade ago he wasn't a particularly well known person. But what was most famous about him was his surname because Max Moseley's farther Oswald Moseley's one of Britain's most notorious figures. He was the head of the British Union of Fascists. Hitler went. A Moseley's wetting into Max's son. Yes Max Moseley his son and at first he did pretty well and. unshackling shuttling himself of the scandalous name. So all was fine in Max Moseley's life until. March two, thousand eight, he went to the new stand out on the front cover of the news of the world was a headline. Formula One boss Max Moseley has sick sick nutsy orgy with five focus. So somebody had secretly filmed Max Moseley. A in the words of the news of the world romping with Five Hawkins added craved Nazi style orgeon a torture Dungeon Oh my gosh. Yes this is Kinda rough have you would think given given his family history This was like a slam dunk for the news, the world but then something happened firstly, he thought. Everybody knows sex's weird. At a second thought was. That the tomato fatal mistake because while the orgy was definitely German tinged, they were wearing. Uniforms it wasn't that he. Was No swastikas. So, Maqsoud the needs of the world. And the news of the World Sparrow stays at editors were forced to go through every frame of the video footage and there was nothing Nazi. Whatsoever, and he ends up winning the suit and in coming out of this like more popular than ever before more more popular than after he became a kind of hero for taking on the bullies of the tabloids and yeah refusing to refusing to be shamed our shame worldliness lies in the space between who we are and how we present ourselves to the world. The Soon Max Moseley said, Yep that's me. That's me and there's photographs I did I feel in this last shamed about it he narrowed the gap. Why did Max survive when? So many other people don't survive what were the ingredients. One of them I think that he just he refused to feel ashamed. So if we go just by Max, Moseley playbook are first rule for surviving a scandal could be this refused to feel ashamed. But of course, that's much easier. Said than done and it can be really complicated because just figuring out if you ought to feel ashamed is sometimes really hard especially when you're in the middle of something like this. And I want to make clear. Katie we are not comparing you to maximum. Non. Nazi. German theme or jeans. But. But it it does seem like there's there's an echo. Of what you went through of someone taking private photos and making them public yes. So similar thing, right. When you hear that story Katie what do you think it's absolutely accurate if you refuse to be shamed than. Or you refuse to be ashamed than you can't really be shamed and I think there's a part of it that has to do with. Do you feel guilty about whatever it is that has happened and I often think about that in terms of whether. If I hadn't had this relationship that was with somebody that. Had worked on my team, and if there wasn't this power dynamic element to it, then you know what? I've felt any shame at all and I'd like to thank the answer would be no but I don't know I mean, I. Yeah I think part of my comeback as it were is trying to own that and say, no, I'm not going to be ashamed of this. This is a relationship that I had that I at the time did not feel was problematic and the fact that it's seen as a problem is not coming from the somebody who felt like a victim but as somebody from somebody who was, vindictive and somebody who is trying to make a problem. Zoo to make sure I, understand what you're saying. It's because the the relationship you had with someone who is working on your campaign and so so there were these questions about wizard appropriate for you as her boss to be in a relationship with her and that that gave you a little bit of a feeling of of maybe there is something shameful. May maybe they're right in some corn after mind and that makes it harder to say you know what I didn't do anything, wrong yeah. A few guys. Yeah it John, what do you think about that? I, mean it's a lot easier to say I am not going to feel ashamed I'm not going to let this get to me than to actually do it. The takes an enormous strength of character to transcend the massive amount of humiliation. You'll feel when making photographs. So suddenly all over the place, it does take it takes a lot. To to get over it, which is you know a reason why it's so impressive that. Katie's responding the way that she says because, of course. For most people you an outline, you're like an outline in a crime scene now. Filling in the outline with with with nuance and humanity and so. This is another lesson. When we bring nuance to a situation when we help people see us as a real person rather than some object of scandal. That's at least some small way of reclaiming who we are. That's one of the reasons why Katie decided to write a book to let people know who she is beyond those photos or what they might have heard. But of course, Katie faces a challenge the Max Moseley never did. She's a woman. Most people who who serve just refuse to be shamed or refuse to to bow to any kind of scandal they they are men. I mean I'm a hard time thinking of. Of A, a woman part of me wonders how much of that is that men are You know there's a there's an amount of confidence of we belong in these positions of power where women are. New to it and are therefore we we have this we deal with imposter syndrome on a day-to-day basis anyway, and so when something like this happens, then you do face this question of like Welsh maybe I shouldn't have been here in the first place. Backs this up. Political scientists have found that women are more harshly punished for any kind of perceived a real unethical behavior much more. So than men, there's a real double standard in society particularly when there's a scandalous rumor that's floating. Jump let me ask if you had if you had known Katie while she was going through this and had been her her adviser. Based on on all the research you've done and how much you thought about this. What would you have been telling her to do in the days and weeks after those photos appeared I a million. Impressed with how Is the woman who's been in a similar situation who survived into similar way and the office woman? Comes into my head is Monica Lewinsky she was ridiculed and nobody was blaming Clinton everybody was bay was blaming. Monica and it was all bizarre today an objectification because the factors of the root of your situation was a was a consensual sex scandal. You victim revenge porn, and as I say, if you're a man, a man would would survive. Kitty. Let me ask. Let's John had been with you when this news first broke and he said look, here's my advice. Do it Max Moseley did go out there and say, yeah, you know what? Those are photos of me I I'm a bisexual woman who's in a consensual relationship with with the woman and with my husband and I have nothing to be ashamed of let's I don't know I don't understand what you guys are talking about. Yeah I do think you could have done that. You know it's interesting because I think that was the piece of advice that I never got right. That was the of just basically saying don't apologize and and just say you know. Just to say, this is what it is and I'm not sorry. I think that's the piece in and again I can't help. But wonder how much of it has to do with the timing You know like I had been I had been one of the people who called for Al Franken's resignation and I'd been one of the people who was very outspoken about how we need to hold people to the same standards within our own party is the other can LASCO could ask the question? Given. Everything that you've been through. Acted. Differently about the Franken situation I think it's possible. I waited a little while on Al Franken and I think the part that moved me with him was that there were so many women who are coming forward. You know when you when you have that much of a pattern, it's hard to to dispute. But yeah. I do think it's possible that I would have said that it needs to that. Maybe resignation wasn't wasn't the only option and that perhaps more of A. A genuine apology in an attempt to make amends is the appropriate response because I think that since this all is so so For us just in general in terms of asking for men to to be accountable for these kinds of things. That yeah, I'd perhaps I did jump jump the gun with that. Here's our next big idea. If you're living through a personal scandal that can be helpful and and really healing to point out when they're sacristy to point out how society is treating you differently because you're a woman how other people even presidents have been let off the hook for far worse. But in that same spirit. Sometimes that means we also have to acknowledge our own hypocrisy. Acknowledged that in the wake of having gone through something awful ourselves. We realized that we might have judged too harshly in the past. Or that we didn't look closely enough for their nuances. Because I guess that's the other concern is that if you don't feel guilt or remorse her or questioning yourself and at least a little bit than. What does that make you so I. Don't I don't know that there's a right answer, but I do know that. No one no matter what you've done deserves. This. Level of public shaming that has become fairly normal. What reason public shaming went out of fashion in the eighteen fifties in public punishments without Lords. As as far as I could tell from confer the archives. was. The Great American thinkers of the time like Benjamin rush arguing that they would too brutal. You know I found A. Woman. Who was being publicly went for adultery. She was pleading with the judge to change her sentence at it was for her to be whipped in private. and. Public. So it is it is worthy of thoughts that we are routinely doing something these days that was stopped for being too brutal in the eighteen fifties. The thing is. If you genuinely feel like you've done something wrong. You should apologize and you should make amends. But with John is saying is there's a better way to achieve justice than intense public shaming. Let, me ask Katie. What advice would you give if a if a woman came to and said, you know I'm I'm going through something similar and I have all my crisis consultants I I know what to do for outward facing you know Pr. But like I feel suicidal I feel terrible I feel so guilty and so self-loathing. What advice would you give her about how to survive this? Say you're not alone but you need to have somebody there with you. That's to me the key is that you need you literally need a best friend or a family member WHO's going to be with you constantly and just love you no matter what. Did you have that I did and if you know if I hadn't I don't I don't know what I would have done. A tell you that a lot of shame people do to get better. They reach out to other shamed people. It's true. Monica Lewinsky to me and that was a huge help for me. Right wooded Monica tell you stay strong. You'll get through it and you're not alone and you know I I feel like I tried to pass that forward to. When Andrew Gillum had his scandal a respect to him and he's become a friend since then there's just there's not a ton of people who have been through something similar. And you really do look for support. Here's the last thing. Lean on other people not just your support system but those who have been through similar situations who will understand what you're going through and how the public's response often outlast the scandal itself. And when you see someone else hurting. Reach out to them. Let them know that they aren't alone. Because at the end of the day, we help other people and ourselves by using empathy overcome. Shame. And that goes for all of us even those of us who are just bystanders skulking at a scandal as it unfolds. We should try to be empathetic to. which. Sometimes means not piling on using to participate in the shaming. We've been talking about how to survive a scandal as if that burden exists on the person who's at the center of the scandal. But maybe the real answer is how to survive a scandal is that the rest of US stop looking at the photos that we stopped going on social media and kind of gleefully taking joy in someone else's embarrassment and shame. It's completely understandable why a bunch of people on social media thought we can better the actual justice system particularly when it comes to sexual assault where the real justice system is so powerless. Unfortunately With our new type of justice bought an awful lot of problems. So I think really the way to get beyond this is for shameless to be thinking twice about their actions to be may be waiting a few days because. So frequently a couple of days after we've told somebody to shreds new information comes out which makes us realize that we got it all wrong or maybe the as Katie's case, the story was significantly more nuanced than a richly stained some mile by best advice for critical world shavings. Better. Horrific is for people to just wait to just be patient and curious and hear more about the person at the heart of the transgression rather than. Fail buoyed by administering instant call judgment. Katie, how are you doing now is it's been a year since we're suicide with something that you are seriously contemplating. How do you feel mentally now? Thank you I feel really good. To be honest with you, I it's just been such a traumatizing year generally, but I guess one of the things is it's brought me closer to my family and it's made me really appreciate life and how short it is and how. It's not. One thing that defines you that you. You get to make meaning every single day and You know that's something that I plan on working on. Thank you Katie Hill for sharing her story with us. You should look for her book she will rise and thank you to Jon Ronson for sharing his research. His fascinating book is named so you've been publicly shamed. And we also wanted to know if you or anyone you know are in crisis or having thoughts of suicide or need help immediately. You can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. At one eight, hundred, two, seven, three, talk that's one, eight, hundred, two, seven, three, eight, two, five, five or you can find help at suicide prevention lifeline dot org. Are you trying to deal with something that's happened in your past. So you should send us a note at how to its DOT COM or leave us a voicemail at six, four, six, four, nine, five, four, zero, zero, one. How To's executive producer is Derek John Rachel Allen and Rosemary Belsen produce the show in March Jacob is our engineer. Our theme music is by Hannah's Brown. June Thomas is senior managing producer unleashed gumri is executive producer of sleep podcasts. Gabriel Roth is slates editorial director of audio. I'm Charles Duhig. Thanks for listening. This episode of how to was brought to you by. Orion. America's favorite FRY. When you're picky kids caused dinnertime dilemmas, don't despair instead used potato pay. 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"Enemy Of The Perfect" (with Katie Hill)

Hysteria

1:26:54 hr | 11 months ago

"Enemy Of The Perfect" (with Katie Hill)

"Hello and welcome to hysteria. I'm Erin Ryan this week. Eliza Master Monaco Grace Power Michaela Watkins and special guest former California Congresswoman Katie Hill. Join me to tackle the following questions was Tuesday really all that super. How do you keep going when it seems like several worst case scenarios happen in your life all at once why is it so hard for lawmakers to keep up with all the ways that people can use the Internet to exploit people and finally just? How big is the West Coast underground knitting community? All this and more on a brand new episode of hysteria didn't blink in the last week. Because if you did you might have missed. The moment that the race for the Democratic nomination became a race between two men over seventy. You might have also missed the mysterious disappearance of Elizabeth Warren or the race for the political media to pretend that they were the ones who knew how this was going to turn out all along putting twenty s. Weird already so here to talk more about that. Is My friend former White House? Deputy Chief of staff under President Obama and the vaccine for Pundit Disease Semester. Monica happy awesome Wednesday heavy. Is that what? It's called the day after Super Tuesday awesome Wednesday. That's what I decided to call it. And then what's the Thursday? After that called. I think we have to wait and see. Splendid Thursday followed a surprisingly by Shit Friday shit. Fridays where we're headed Friday I have a question to kind of kick off our conversation today. what do you think? The minimum prison term should be people who call it Joe Mental. Okay so look. It should be like fifteen to life and let me tell you why okay because everyone's forgetting that. That is what Joe Lieberman called it. Going into the New Hampshire primary in two thousand four and he most decidedly did not have GIO Mendham. Yeah I I'm sorry. People are not. They're not being historically accurate. There's already been joe mental and it wasn't good. People have really short memories when it comes to political news because things just kind of sift through so quickly like remember how. The president got impeached. When like pretty recently I think it was this year or you mean before the pandemic yes before the pandemic or cook or the plague which I'm smiling while I'm saying the word play which is really fucked up like what is wrong with me. I'm broken broken. The News has completely broken me. Okay Eliza did you vote your face off on Tuesday. No because I live in New York. Oh that's right I I did not vote by face off. Did you built your face. I've voted my face off on Tuesday. I was voting all night. No I wasn't voting all night but I did vote In California you can mail in your ballot and Josh and I did that. We consulted a couple of voting guides and research to we're voting for and we. We cast our ballots and drop them in the mail yesterday so our votes count but probably not as much as they would have had. We voted day of. But that's okay. That's fine because you voted and that's all that matters. You are not disenfranchised yes. I'm not disenfranchised one thing that I did find a little bit Like disturbing and maybe a bad sign on Tuesday were the really really long lines in Texas which is not good but the encouraging side of that is that people stayed in line for a really long time to vote and also. I think Virginia turned in some record Participation on yeah it was crazy. It was like over a million something. Yeah that's I mean that's exciting and that's that's one thing that you know if you're somebody who wasn't hoping that Joe Biden would eventually be the nominee because you were worried that he wouldn't inspire people to defeat the president. Well there's your answer. There are no. He inspired enough people to show up to vote for primary in Virginia. So you know it's not a total lost cause which is a battleground state in the general election. Yes exactly unlike South Carolina. Which is the state that arguably kicked off the. I'm sorry not the job of the not that the we'll have to come up with another word for it another thing that you man race. Yeah the to Henry's. We'll get more into the two men of it in a second. Another thing. That happened on Tuesdays is Biden. Spent no dollars in Minnesota and one I know That's crazy Do you think is the Amy Klobuchar effect? I don't know I'm GonNa go with the well. You know what are y. Not right clothes stands got up. They were like our girl went for Biden. We were gonNA vote for hers. So we'll vote for Biden. So yeah I probably was. I also just think it was like the momentum of our line. It's like they were just a lot of people waiting for him to give them a reason to vote for him and he won decidedly in South Carolina and cool. We'll do it yeah. I also think I don't want to point. I want people who are listening who are fans of Bernie Sanders to understand the name saying this from a place of of admiration. I feel like One of the jobs of Bernie Sanders as he was the front runner Bernie Sanders and his surrogates was to prove to the American people that he was welcoming and he could work with people who disagreed with. Andy could build a huge coalition And that he could bring people in who? Maybe were a little bit wary of him and I don't think that he did that on the national stage. I don't think that his People who stood up for Bernie did that on the national stage and And Joe Biden after South Carolina. People were like oh he can get people who are who have disparate backgrounds and viewpoints to agree. So let's go with him. I think people so wanted defeat. Donald trump that right now they're just voting for who they think can do it. And let's not discount what we talked about last week which is the pundit plague and God knows though so many of the pundits were Jonesing for Biden win and you know like if you actually Kinda like dissect it I mean. He won one of the first four states and placed out of the top three in the others. And so you know and so they were like this. He's back he's here and so I think that You know now Biden has to prove that he can like build the organization. Because like I mean. I don't want to say that what happened. Yesterday was a fluke. It's not a fluke by any stretch. But there was Mike Erin. Get away without saying the Joe Momentum but a lot of momentum propelled him into yesterday and that was very good for him and so but now he has to pick it up and you know he has to build the organization that could potentially actually beat trump though there Bernie and Elizabeth. Warren are still both in the race. And they're still both a lot of states left in this contest. Eliza. I recently saw a play called. What's the what the Constitution means to me And it's really good if anybody is listening and you have a chance to see it. It's it's a really good one woman. Well it's it's one woman and one man but it's mostly one woman play And there's this one part where she says that her dad used to tell her that. Sometimes you have to choose between getting one thing you want or getting no things that you want and I think that when it comes to Joe Biden what people really want is to beat Donald Trump. They're worried that if they ask for too much that they won't get any of it Which is they might not be wrong. Yeah they they might not be wrong but at the same time. It's I can kind of I was telling you this yesterday if my house were on fire because Donald Trump lit it on fire And there were two candidates to choose from and one of them was like we're going to put the fire out. We're GONNA take the matches away from people like Donald Trump so we can't burn your house down anymore. I'd be like I prefer that candidate. I want the people to to put the fire out and also take the matches away But if the other candidate was like look we have. We will put the fire out. We're not GONNA take the matches way but we're definitely going to put the fire out. I would probably go with the people who would definitely put the fire out if I didn't have confidence in the people that were going to do more. And that's just to say that I think although that isn't necessarily my thought process I can understand people who retreated to more moderate choice because really what they want to do is put the fucking fire out and I think that like for me personally. There's the difference between what I saw yesterday and how I feel and so I think we're very clear on what we saw yesterday I'm a democratic socialist. I believe in a lot of things But first and foremost we do have to be Donald Trump. And you know it's not something that can just be my like like I appreciate how I feel. But if the rest of America's feeling different way than like not GonNa fucking down the wrong And I think the voices of people who are more progressive are just as important as they were when it appeared that the presumptive nominee was going to be a progressive because If you take a look at what happened to the Democratic Party platform in two thousand sixteen. It did move to the left. Thanks to voices who are not centrist. And you know it is. I think further to the left than it was before and I think Joe Biden in his drive to build a coalition would be sensible to try to include people who maybe aren't centrist but still have good ideas also before we move onto the war in part of the conversation. I just want to point out that you know. Even though Joe Biden might be somebody that it takes a little adjusting to get used to as the presumptive frontrunner. There is no arguing that yesterday. Jill Biden clotheslines. Somebody that was unbelievable. If you guys didn't watch Joe Biden on stage giving a speech in an appreciation Super Tuesday speech and a protester An animal rights protesters stormed the stage. Jill Biden put her body in between the protesters and her husband it was her behold it was an aerobic that was like was it the same as I think it was the same group it may have been the same protesters. Did the same thing to Bernie last week. Yeah I I thought it was Bernie protester but no. It was about milk. It's about milk and Bernie's from Vermont. So it really didn't registered me and I was like what is going on. So fuck so strange Speaking of strange the case of the mysterious disappearance of Elizabeth Warren in news coverage Elizabeth. Yeah I wonder I've been thinking about this for days and I'm not sure what happened. It's like I went to you know. Joe Biden was the kind of limping. You know former great politician just who was who's campaign was falling apart and all of a sudden he's the front runner in. Meanwhile nobody's talking about Elizabeth Warren at all So but at the same time Elizabeth. Warren isn't really turning in great results. So what do you think happened? We'll look I mean it's pretty like the problem is again harkening back to last week when we talked about pundit disease like how the news reported fucking matters and they have been ignoring her for weeks at this point and yesterday. I was watching an unnamed cable channel and they literally had everyone including Tulsi on the screen book. But Warren. And you know it's like I don't WanNa be that fucking count that's just always tweeting it. Networks being lanier hair all so he literally just emailed people that I knew that work there and was like you guys. This is really fucking bad Because she out raised. I mean she literally put Mike Bloomberg in Half Nelson and got him out of the race. What terrible like you WanNa talk about fucking Karma she literally clothesline him and got him out of the race and then he endorsed by Lake. Don't get just the whole thing is like so terrible but she they just. It's like in the fall. She was surging and then they were like I don't know about this and then suddenly for no reason there is nothing that happened. That changed who she was or what. She was talking about But suddenly it was just like maybe if we stop talking about her she'll go away and it's hard to say that that's Kinda what happened. He Yeah I mean there was some mainstream pundit disease people talking about how Just kind of not talking about her at all and the narrative was that Elizabeth Warren's campaign is taking a nosedive you know her her. Her numbers are bad but then she had that incredible debate and suddenly she was polling. Second in at least one nationwide poll shits on the money and raised a ton of money. And you know it's it was really confusing to me to see just kind of over and over again. Her speech is being cut away from on primary nights. Earn an especially on the night of Iowa. There are a couple of places that did not even carry her. I don't know it was really strange. I almost think and then. Here's this other kind of troubling dynamic. That's happening The idea that Elizabeth Warren by staying in the race is taking votes from Bernie Which is based on the assumption that a people who vote for Elizabeth? Warren would go to Bernie if they weren't voting for her which isn't true because people's People's choices don't necessarily make sense right people. It's not like a game of you know. Politics isn't a game of love. Is Blind where you sit in one pod and then you listen to the viewpoints from you know through all that you can't see the other person people choose who they support based on whether or not they like someone in many cases and just because I so it's just I don't know so. There's there's the narrative that Elizabeth Warren stay in the race is somehow taking votes from Bernie and giving biden the nomination. What do you make of that? Eliza I don't think anyone should be telling Warren together the race. I mean she's a smart person. She's GonNa make the decision you know. She's she's here for the great of greater good of the Republic you know but I do think that there is mathematically. I don't even know the word for this. But it's like you know I. It's hard to know whether Biden would have had the night he did. If Amy and Mayor Pete have cleared the path for him. I don't know so I I mean it's really hard to know what the impact of people getting in or out in endorsing someone else. It's hard to know what that really does and I would prefer to not play pundit plague and just let her do her thing because I don't think it's I do think it's really hard to know what the outcome of any of these people. Getting out and endorsing actually means yeah. I think that's true. We can never really. I mean I saw that a lot yesterday to Po- half a pundit plague looking back and trying to be like oh based on these reasons this was the only way that things could have turned out you know and the other half is based on. What's happening now? This is the only way things can turn out and most of them most of the time. It's just completely full of Shit Let's go from playing pundit though to playing vice president fantasy league okay so who would you like to see as the running mate of one of the either of the two I guess now media anointed male front runners? Will I think I think that either one of them should look at Stacey Abrams? I think if Elizabeth Warren is not the nominee that people should look at Elizabeth Warren. I think that if either one of the two nail front runners doesn't choose a woman or person of Color. They literally have mis read the room. In such a catastrophic way that You know a percentage of the Democratic Party is not going to get what they want and whoever the nominee is right and the one thing that we learned in twenty sixteen. Is it matters who I think it is one thing I feel. I have learned since two thousand sixteen. 'cause I'm not a pundit just a person is that it matters you know when you have that kind of division. I really do think that whoever the nominee is has a responsibility to show they heard see and feel what the rest of the party cares about. yeah. I think that's a good point. I I'm going to echo you're Stacey Abrams Fandom because I think that she phantom but support because I think I think she would be a great running mate for other of those people and I think that she's really exciting to young people. She's really into dieting. To people who are were canvassing in two thousand eighteen. She's just really. She's an exciting. She's an exciting. Also have you ever seen her speak? Yes and she speaks her mind if the one thing that people are craving is authenticity and someone who gives zero. Fox like I just think that that's definitely stacey. Yeah and imagine her. Eating Mike Pence can a debate like it would be literally we would have to get all the like all of the discovery channel animal memes to what kind of animal she was going to be. How big her job would be to eat giant head and mother? I would have to be scraped off the floor with a human size spatula after watching that because Jeez I know what if she's the vice presidential nominee? Can we commit right here now to watching that debate together? Yes I'll fly down wherever you are. We'll watch because I just feel like you know that'll be a real moment for America. I think it'll be great. Well let's move on really quickly from our coverage of Super Tuesday. And what was it fabulous Wednesday and starring awesome Wednesday? It didn't toasts and rose I'll start with a quick toast. I know you have a toast to Eliza. My first toast is to two women named Shelley McNamara and Yvonne Farrell. They are the recipients of this year's pritzker architecture prize which the Nobel of the architecture world They are the first women to win it. They are from Ireland. They run Grafton architects. They design brutalises buildings that are also inviting which I learned yesterday from listening to NPR. And then I was like what would that look like and I googled it and they are brilliant architects. They designed very beautiful building. So congratulations to Farrell and McNamara. They They're awesome. They're they're they're pioneers. It's a little bit of a sad aggressive story because you'd think that women would have won before this but Here we are so congratulations to them. I WANNA toast the fucking Bachelorette Ed's okay. I knew bachelorette Claire Crawley. Do you know what's new and interesting about her Erin I think I do but tell me. She's thirty eight is thirty eight years old. She has appeared in Bachelor in Paradise Bachelor Winter Games. She was in one Pablo season. She's a hairstylist. From Sacramento and I am so excited to see what the season will bring because this one has been in. Uttar bellyflop yeah. I think it's really good to have it. Thirty eight year old woman as the Bachelorette because a it seems a little bit more realistic to a lot of the demographic of people who watched the Bachelorette a lot of very very smart women. Watch that very very dumb show and a lot of women who are more highly educated tend to wait a little longer to get married and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that actually like I sometimes I watched the Bachelorette or the bachelor now and I think like your twenty four. Your age should be illegal for you to get married. Ab exactly and I'm feeling stoked. Because I think I was actually thirty eight when I got married when my God? You're just like Claire. I'm just like Claire. And also for me personally I felt like the bachelorette made real strides with Hannah based you know. She stood up for herself. I've had sex. I know Jesus loves me like I felt it was so great and then this season was such a backslide that I'm hoping that I'm hoping that we bring it back to the Real Pinnacle at what? I'm hoping so too. Okay so toast to the Bachelorette a toast to female architects and a roast to everything else and we see you Elizabeth. Warren we see Elizabeth Warren Elissa everything could be changed by the next time I talk to you so Good luck with everything in the next week. Yeah Talk to you then. Okay Bye. This episode of hysteria is brought to you by Nordstrom rack. Well this is a store where already shop so they don't even really need to pay me to talk about it but I'll talk about it anyway. So if you don't know about Nordstrom rack here are the cliffs notes first of all. It's a store important to know. Second of all you can save up to seventy percent off designer brands at the store You can go to Nordstrom dot com slash crooked shop online. Or you can find brick and mortar near you. You can find new arrivals. Just in from Nordstrom A lot of the my favorite brands to where are from Nordstrom? There's a couple brands of jeans a couple of brands of Nice shirts and It's nice to be able to go to Nordstrom rack and sometimes find things at a steel price of up to seventy percent off today through Sunday. So you can go to again. That's Nordstrom rack dot com slash crooked to shop online or. Find a store near you nordstrom. Rack Dot com slash crooked. Hysteria is brought to you by caused box. I just discovered my new favorite subscription box. It's called caused box and I need to tell you about it. 'cause box is a quarterly subscription. Box curated by women for women that's filled with all sorts of amazing products and brands. That are ethical sustainable and have a positive mission to give back and make the world better. Let me tell you why. 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Www DOT caused box dot com and use the code hysteria to get your first box for thirty percent off as you can get your first box worth over two hundred fifty dollars for less than thirty nine dollars. Go check out 'cause box right. I can tell you firsthand. You're going to love. Hello Syria listeners. I want to tell you about a podcast that I just discovered called the Bellas. Podcast Nikki and Brie rebel are WWe superstar TV personalities and entrepreneurs who are turning off the cameras and turning on the mics to give you inside access to their lives like never before check out the Bellas podcast variety show where the Bella twins go head to head in a weekly Trivia battle. Duke it out over juicy debate topics. Kill some rumors and answer questions. Tweeted in from the Bella Army. Check out the Bellas. Podcast ON APPLE PODCASTS. Or wherever you listen and welcome back. We are At the part of the show where I'm not sitting alone a table anymore. Talking to somebody on a phone in New York so it's it's great. I'm not lonely. I'm less lonely. I'm really excited about today's show because we have a special guest. Who if you're listening and you don't know who she is then there's something wrong with you. Who are you yeah? There's something deeply wrong with you for but let me introduce the women sitting at the table with I I she's a writer on the forthcoming. Cbs Show broke. Its grace par. Good morning or afternoon or evening. Everybody whatever time of day it is. I never time. It's every time of day somewhere every time of day somewhere. That's a broader statement last year. We are and I'm delighted to be here today. Guys it's going to be a good one. It's I mean I'm hyping it but it's going to be a good one just type it the whole time and not not. We're all the way up next. She's an actor. You can see on the new film the way back Michaela Watkins. Hello it's good to be back to it's been a minute has been well. You've been like working movie stor. Oh Yes oh just just working in five degree weather all night doing nights shoot secure in the catskill mountain. Oh my oh yeah dirty dancing areas here. Good good good people would cars would be crashing. People would not know what to do to Celsius. I only speak and so I know yeah. I was in the catskill mountains in the middle of nowhere doing aware wolf movie so I was actually going to joke. Is it aware wolf movie? Say Like I would hope like a real bech. Yes it was. It was a movie but it was really fun. Do you get to be a wolf in it. I can't tell you you'll never know. I never ten and last but not least our special guest today she is a former congresswoman and forever. A bad ass. It's Katy L. Yea to the students excited. Thanks for having me How are you doing? I'm I'm okay you know I think it has been a hell of a last year really and I don't know if you know this but my brother passed away recently too. So that's in your this. It's been kind of a series of things but I'm coming out of the other side. I think hopefully and you know we just gotTa keep going until Jesus. I cannot believe I am. I am my my sincere. Thank you condolences. I in ally a don't think you're sorry. How how's how's your family They're you know again doing okay. We went to big bear this last weekend. Oh that's fun. That was like the first like family kind of right. We're trying to you know. Do some fun things and well. I skied my sister. Snowboard- oh she's cooler than I am. I was going sometimes. Fun is like a fake it till you make it sort of activity where you have to just like. I'm telling you going to have to have fun. And then and then let it fall into place as well. Well I'm so I'm feeling extremely lucky and happy that you're here and that you're talking into a microphone because I think a lot of people go through difficult times in their lives not to the extent that you have an at a at the scale that you have publicly but to see somebody carry themselves through. It is really important I think and so he can. You know it's good that you're here for you know for yourself and also for other people who are listening thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah and you're continuing to be involved in politics. You're not letting it knock you out. So can you talk a little bit about how your continuing to be involved? Yes so I started. A pack of political action. Committee called her time and the goal is to support candidates. Who First of all are are focused on women and young women but also on people who are really representative of their communities. Who are not your typical politician. There are people who You know who I think are especially women who are going to change the face of politics forever and to get the long term. Systemic changes that need to happen for us to get to true equality. I'm it's GonNa take parody first of all like we actually have to have equal representation but it's also going to take people women women especially I think are going to be the saviors of this country and hopefully the world One thing that I was thinking about in that you've talked about a little bit is how the idea of perfection kind of stands in the way of getting a real diverse group of people who have diverse group of life experiences into government So what do you think is behind the obsession with having female politicians be perfect? There's a great question and I think it's that it over and over again. You see that for a woman to achieve something that a man can do relatively easily. We have to be the best of the best of the best every single time. And I think that that's the case in politics just as much as anything else maybe even more so because you know for some reason men are just forgiven for things more easily. I think that they it's the same kind of notion of boys will be boys except it's like men will be men can be shitty and it's fine and I just don't think that we've gotten there with women even remotely but you know it does. Keep people out of politics if you think that you know. As far as I'm concerned all of us have a past of some kind and if you haven't been spending your entire life preparing to become a politician living in a way that you have this completely clean background that no one's ever gonNA find anything. No one's ever going to know because you haven't done anything. I you know I I don't I can't even imagine having lived in my life that way but if you haven't done that then I think there's a there's a very real fear of what is going to come out during the course of this. I I mean I speak to women who are thinking about running all the time and that's exactly what they say. What's at that point? I think the idea of women needing to be perfect also ingrained in US internally. A main I feel deterred from potentially running for office for a number of reasons. One of them being like. Oh God who knows what might be in my pastor what I've done and I think we always hold ourselves up to standard. That is completely In achievable on achievable Without achieve ability ability. I think it's a great point too. About how the way we forgive men I feel like I feel like that can start to change unsown as such a myriad of levels where we hold accountable more and more. I mean we sort of saw it with Chris Matthews. This this is kind of Nice but I mean even in terms of what we're putting out in in media in in terms of TV. You know we always have like these. Oh you big clock to your perfect wife I just I just feel like we have to find that parody everywhere total start showing people that men have to be accountable for everything. Perfect example is just the study that I think that came out. Recently about how men are even younger. Men Are Are Down with the idea of equality but they still won't vacuum. They still won't do their chores. And in equal measure. And I think that you know. Maybe that's that's a little bit sideways of perfection. But the idea that you have to be perfect in your career. You have to work as hard if not harder than everyone else in the office and you still need to take care of the kids primarily. You need to be the one who carries the weight at home. I think that that's that's the reality that we're living in still and until that changes then we're going to be. We're going to be fighting an uphill battle. A lot of that emulated behavior to we grow up seeing our mothers doing dishes and doing laundry and doing those sort of female centric behaviors than it's impossible to imagine a man doing that and for men to if they've had their moms picking up like it's you have to completely teach them my friend. Joey says like I am such a great dad. Like I'm doing. I'm such a good dad. I go to work come home. I take my kid and then reading the story but as a mom sailing going back to the Chris Matthews thing though I think that even his retirement is a really good example of the the disparity between. Yeah like why? Don't you bow out doing all that stuff publicly like he was? He was publicly a jerk and at his job. His job was to be on camera and speak to people and he was a dick and like he wasn't he wasn't good at his job. He would intimidate women that he was interviewing. Laura Bassett who is a great writer? Great reporter wrote about him a couple of years ago but would've creepy wasn't in this past week wrote and G. Q. About how named him. It was him well in what in what he did to Hillary Clinton. Yeah I mean that that just got totally erased what he did to Elizabeth Warren bullying her about the Bloomberg thing. It was just over and over again. All these things happen publicly. And I think that if you're a person who has a pile of dictionary on your resume and your man you can still kind of plow forward and and the thing that that Katy your story kind of made my insides just sad was that it was like these were things that happened in your private life that were never intended to be public. Weren't affecting the job. The job Can you take us through? I know this is probably something that you've gone through over and over again in your head but just for our listeners. Can you take us through the way that you feel about your resignation? Now in retrospect. Do you think you did the right thing? And would you do it again the same way? If you had it to do over again I do think I did the right thing. I think for a number of different reasons. The first I guess most important is that I can't I can't see having gone through just not knowing how much more would be coming right. And especially when the the right wing media and the political operatives in the district had made it so clear that they were going to continue to just hammer on this forever and ever and ever until they got to step down or the force something else right and and when my husband we what we knew was that there were seven hundred files whether it was images or text messages or something else and I had no idea what those were but I knew that whoever had their hands on them where people who would completely spin them out of context they were things that picture the pictures. I didn't even know they existed. So when you have your your bitter ex soon to be ex husband And they're working with the right wing media and they're working with the people who are trying to take your seat you're trying to unseat you like you like that's a that's a huge thing looming over your head and then on top of that. I'm going through the divorce. My My eye on these leader in these leadership roles in Congress and you can't I so much of my job as the freshman leadership rapid the Vice Chair and oversight was to be public face for you know the you know for for the class or for the committee and I know I knew I could no longer do that. I knew that I could no longer be as active in Congress because I would be a liability to other people and and then it's like well. How what what am. I what can I offer? What can I continue to do? And taking a back seat and just being a vote to me. Wasn't you know that's not the reason I came there and and I think the last thing is that I as far as being a liability we were going into impeachment and I was taking up a ton of the space in terms of the news. And and you know I was. I was something that Fox News could point to. About like. Look at how morally degenerate the liberals are and And that was that was a big liability for people. You know in swing districts. My friends may red to blue colleagues and And I didn't WanNa be that and so So I think I did the right thing. Why do you think there is a fixated on you? I mean it's it's like I. I know intuitively that you are not the only person in Congress who has something in their past that they wouldn't want everybody to look at it in graphic form. So why were they so fix it and I was it a crime of I mean I'm using crime with like air quotes even though it does feel crime. Eat Amelia Was it a crime of opportunity? Wait can I guess before you answer? Is it because you threaten the status quo? Is it because if they have women who can go out there and be audacious in their lives and run for office that all? The sudden thwarts the the equilibrium of the power which has always been towards the men. I mean I certainly think so. I think that that's a huge part of it. And that's one of the things that has made me so determined to stay out in front and in you know in as many ways that I can not because I because it's easier because I like it because honestly it pretty much sucks every time you go out in front and you you guys know this too but like you're a target and but I I do think one of the interesting things is that the I have nothing. There is no value in attacking me anymore. They don't have anything to gain by doing it but they do. Just incessantly anytime I appear. It's like they. They just can't stand the fact that I haven't gone away with what they've done they're like you need to be hiding in shame. And and I think that's something that is really indicative of the way that they WanNa tear down women and but you know the other thing in terms of why I think. They were so fixated on me and on. You know what had happened was that they saw it as an opportunity to to undermine the metoo kind of movement they saw it as an opportunity to You know to to fixate on something. That was sexualizing. Right like I was. I was only the second bisexual person who's ever been elected to Congress. And like this is you know it's a fetish is kind of thing you know misunderstood totaling and so You Know I. It's it's way catch your headlines than you can get in almost any other situation and There's like this weird creepy like fantasy kind of ask. Oh my God the discussing messages and and you give examples lots of calls about me and AOC having threesomes with people and it's like but like really disgusting graphic like ways that they leaving messages for my poor like young staff to listen to listen to it. It's just leaving messages on your office phone. That was actually you bring up a OC or them bring up AFC kind of made me want it. That kind of dumped into the next question like it seems like or the next. I guess point. It seems like a lot of there's a part of conservativism that can't quite understand their attraction to powerful an outspoken women. And I it's not even just sexual is just an attraction They can't reconcile it. In the only way for them to process it is is by making it obscene and deciding that it's something that so that way they get to experience these women's actually but also like wag their them. Yeah at the same time God I wish I wish phone call Ted Lake when you could just hit call caller. Id or whatever it would just through the whole pipeline. Just spray pepper spray. That'd be wonderful if somebody could invent that that'd be wonderful. Yeah certainly grimes is your phone. Number is on a list advocate like pepper spray. Yeah was it mostly men leaving messages or was it Yeah Yeah that's definitely they were. I mean don't get me wrong. There were some women but like not definitely not overwhelming majority. Were you ever afraid that somebody was going to hurt you. Oh Yeah I mean there were there were trucks that were you know like these big black trucks that were following my mom around me and stuff like that in the district There were I stayed kind of out of the public. Like I had They they arranged special security for me when I went to the airport for the first time to go back to You know to La from DC. And yet there was a while I mean. There were a lot of threats. Did you find support in Congress? Could you look to your. Could you look to Nancy? Could you look to to say you know help? What do I do? This is terrible. I'm being besieged I mean yes they were they were. They were there but there was also. I think it's just a very isolating experience. You have to make this decision on your own and you have to. I wasn't getting any pressure to resign from any of my colleagues. But you also you know that like they're only a certain number of people that can openly come to your defense and they did but there's there are a lot who Who might have seen it as more of a political risk especially again the ones in the tougher seats and And you know I didn't want to be. I didn't WANNA put anyone in danger of you know my. I couldn't stand that if like my whatever situation is in some way used against them in their reelection. And that's just you know that'll be another piece of guilt. That's kind of hanging over my head for ever as you begin a term for the first time in. Congress is there other guidelines for dealing with these kinds of? I mean everybody knows that Congress people are put in the spotlight and it would seem that in order to protect especially in a more vulnerable. Congress people who come from from minority representation whether it be female. Lgbtq community or minority communities that aren't as represented that there should be protections in place to just prepare you for what happens if something like this occurs. Not In exactly the same way of course but I. I don't know if there are protections in place and I think the no and I don't know what that is I don't know how you how you create that But I do think that this is a totally new situation reading. Republicans got down there just going to deny deny point say like Yep and you know the other part I think is that Or just say yeah you know I screwed up. I'm sorry I'M GONNA keep going. I I back from like there's just not the and I think that I I really do think and the early pulling that we were doing suggests that I had enough of a margin that I I probably could have stuck it out but I didn't you know to me that wasn't the right call and and I'm glad I did it. The only kind of concern I have though is like making sure it stays blue and and the question is like by helping Christy Smith like in my in my hurting her right and I don't know the answer to that so I was at that announcement at that house where you the event. Whoa had introduced the first time and was very emotional. Yeah I think everybody there was completely is just completely behind you and supported you and and I think when you introduce Christie. There's probably a moment of just like oh she now still have to get to know my new mommy and and and you know I and I remember you saying I would only step down if I knew that she was going to step in and And I think everybody's sort of leaned forward. Oh okay well if you endorse her. And then she you know she. She's spoke so eloquently. She's so strong she got a lot of you know and and experienced behind her and she was wonderful and I think she she charmed everybody in that room but there was such this layer of sadness so now and I think it was before your your brother had. Oh yeah had and so It it's it's just a confounding year that you've had but also I I. I just think that was such a strong move and I wondered. Do you ever think about Okay what would what would it look like if I did? And if I didn't and if Christie had said no in that moment oh gosh. Yeah if she said no that she wasn't gonNA run than I than I would have really had to rethink things. Because there wasn't there honestly was not anyone even remotely close to To what I thought she could do. Especially because we'd campaign together before right And it's GonNa be hard enough with somebody who you know. Fortunately a lot of the campaign operation that we had before was able to kind of roll into this and she hired a lot of the people who worked on my campaign tons and tons of the volunteers like they know what they're doing so that's a big help but it's also The the runoff is going to be in. May and the so. We have a democratic leaning district now. She survived last night. She did. Yeah and we. We knew she was going to make it to the top two but but it's democratic-leaning seat now or district now but in a in a weird special election kind of timeframe it turns into a Republican leaning district again like in our plus four. So it's like that's the part that I'm worried about. Is You know I think she'd win? She will win again in November. Almost certainly as far as I'm concerned I mean I guess you never know and the the way that the vote broke down last night was I didn't love it but But you know. I'm I'm worried about her. Potentially losing in the special and then kind of disruption that would cause and also you know just think it would be terrible for us to have fought so hard for this district to flip and have won by so much right like we didn't. It wasn't a question. It was in like the reelection was looking like it was going to be like a massive landslide right But it was now you now to to go backwards like that. The question that I have is what responsibility do I have for that? And so I don't know not your fault that you generated a lot of excitement. I mean I it is your fault that people really like it. It is but it's not your fault that I inspire inspire people. I mean you just you were being you. And that's what people found so inspiring an I think Kristie can can bring that to and I think if everybody I had never met you before I was knocking on doors for you and I think that it was the idea of this of this place turning blue and and bringing people out of their homes on election day and saying like can I help. Can I drive you? Can you know out of Los Angeles on election day for like a long drive up to outside and in the weeks before power canvassing being hosted a town hall for Katie as well and I was surprised at like half the audience was like l. a? Hollywood types it was a really. I not surprised because I just people really left. La to come to come support you. And I mean I guess the question that I have is because you do have this this this fan base. You know this community people really support. You hasn't been difficult to talk to the supporters. Obviously the detractors. Have you know dealing with them as their own? I mean five them if fuck them exactly but but for the supporters what would you what do you say? Now that you're you're shifting gears. Yeah I mean that's that has been the hardest part right is that there are a lot of people who who I think have like you sent as a sadness right or people who felt like they did so much and they were really truly behind it and to see it go away to the kind of crumble is it. You know there's a there's something that you left. There's a part of you that you left with this campaign or elevated you buy so much people are like people said you know. I never cared about politics. And then I got involved in your race and I felt like I felt seen I felt like represented truly represented and now like that's shattered and And I don't I you know what I what is the hardest is to be able to say like listen. You know we have to see it shows that we have to keep fighting that much more. Yeah I was GONNA say if it's any consolation I think what is left in. Its place is a iron cauldron bubbling full of anger and action and in in that place and I think you know I think that was our innocence. Innocence to think that Oh you know a woman a young woman who can be herself who's intelligent and represents community can go to Congress and be left alone. You're not part of that political infrastructure. We see with Warren. She's being raised she's being operated. They tried to do that to you. And we're and all it it it does it makes. It fortifies us and it makes us stronger. And it makes us less innocent and it makes us more clear on what to do. I hope so because it and that's the you know the book I'm working on next is in having. It's coming out August eighteenth because that's the hundredth anniversary of suffrage of ratification of the nineteenth. And it's a for me. It needs to be a call to action. What's what's happened with a historic number of women who are running for president so qualified so good And and now we're down to you. Know it's going to be men in their seventies straight and you know like we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA get behind whoever it is and and because we have to we have to but it's like suck you know like all of this wave of women and then and I do worry I do worry about like the what it's GonNa look like in the in the midterms and and the midterms after this Right Lincoln. Twenty we have redistricting. We've got a lot that we should be concerned about for a you know especially if we do win the White House which I hope we do you. You always see a correction back from that in the in the following midterm so what. I love hearing. Katie is your Focus still on the political system. You know I think that in a if I were in your position. I'm sure many people would just be like I'm done with politics. I have no faith in the system anymore. I don't want encourage anybody to run for elected office. It I it's a sham. The whole thing is you know like Michaela's referencing. It's it's not a it's not for me you know. I'm not part of the system. So how do you maintain that positively about the the political system that we have and democracy in general given what you've been through the only way that you change it is by taking it over right and the and the only way that that happens is by people showing up and continuing to do so and I knew still know that if I if I said that if I said fuck this and I'm out then like how many people what's what's the what's the butterfly effect of? How many other people that you know that get disenfranchised by that And I think that you know instead it can have the opposite impact. Where is galvanizing where it is like? You know we're we're we're over and over again. We see we save forward Movement for equality or for women in general. And then you have this backside and and I think for we saw it with trump. We thought we were. We were about to have the first woman. President in fucking trump happened. And then you see this like really big win for women in the in the midterms and then you see what happened to me. And you've got the the metoo movement moving forward and then you have you know major setbacks with with people who aren't convicted or people who don't have are aren't held accountable or come back into the into the light with like no real ever having even apologized and then. I think so. This is another one of those examples. Where like we? We don't have it where we think we do. And we have to just keep pushing for. We have to keep pushing forward and letting up for even a second is an acceptable. So the kind of enforced expectation of percents perfection. Women who are in the public is something that makes women maybe not want to enter public. Life it's something I would never run for Congress partly because I'm like no stuff too much stuff and it's like what is the antidote to that you know. I think that people who are like thoughtful and engaged should think about running for office. But what is the antidote to like? How do you get out there? Somebody who had the worst case scenario happened to them and say look. It might also happen to you but do it anyway. I do say that yeah and I and I say when women asked me about you know they're thinking about running ahead and I'm I'm flattered and honored that they do ask me especially because like if if it were me I would be like well. That's really terrible. I don't want to be taught. I don't WanNa be talked out of it because I would be kind of I. I would think that that would be the response but But I am like I can't. I can't promise you anything about how you're going to be treated. Because you should expect the worst. And and we need fighters we need people who are able and willing to stand up and take that and And know that you you're not gonNA come out of it unscarred and I think any women in politics would any woman in politics would tell you that. Probably most people in politics would say that. You're you know you're scarred in some capacity but my God I know it's worse for women and And I think that that's the that's part of why we need people to keep doing it. And I and I do think that that that that perceptions are changing with younger people And we saw that significantly with you know what happened with me versus even leading up to the election part of. I think why we had such a big turnout. And and a big margin of victory was because of young people who were who who had a chance to for somebody who was like them and You know so. I'm hopeful that as the electorate continues to kind of our generation and and the next generation continued to kind of get age into Voting and make it part of their DNA make it part of their ritual Then that will make it more possible for regular because we want regular people we want. People who have a history. Who Have you know who have made mistakes? Who have lived a life and we're not life virgins which is various. I haven't heard that you introduced me to that. Yeah trying to make fetch happen. I'm trying to regret the kitty. This last question made me think that. Maybe the antidote. Do you guys think that the antidote that we're moving towards is is potential candidates getting ahead of what they have in their past and just saying it all hey so snapchat. Two Thousand Sixteen bomb thing. He smoked pot exact. Tried to do that without getting into the frigging details of my sex life like you know do. Is that what we want? Is that the. I don't know that the antidote is like you need to. I do think that there needs to be some level of like people should have a degree of privacy. And we shouldn't. We shouldn't expect I mean I felt like I ran. Probably the most transparent and like honest and forthright campaign about who I am and especially with the Vice Documentary. And they fought us around with cameras totally unfiltered. It got me into trouble plenty of times but like I was very genuine about who I was and and then for so yeah I think you should get ahead of it and you don't hurt people. I mean I guess like one could argue with trump is very genuine. He you know he shows himself as an ad and he's an ass you know therefore but it's like but he's a hurtful angry awful vindictive ass who kills people and put children in cages. It's like you are living your personal life. You're not hurting anybody. Yeah and You know I know that there's a gray area where it starts to get into you know. Yeah an into work work related situations but but that aside I mean before you even ran like it's your personal life and you didn't hurt anybody and I think there's something that's so interesting that that has happened because of you. Which is you have moved a needle because it now it's normalized. You can't Undo Katie Hill. We can't not have we. We can't have nine had our first bisexual congresswoman that can't happen Who's WHO's also has negotiated? The properties of an open marriage like by that alone. You should be a lawmaker. And Yeah that's my marriage for anything but other than how to how to how to leave in a gory very good. But there you go I mean you got in and you got and And and I guess the next person is just going to be easier and and so thank you for being the first. Yeah well thanks. Pat Towards towards redemption. I think for people but primarily for women who have for whatever reason had parts of their private life exposed. I mean we saw. I think you know Monica. Lewinsky is an example of somebody who has just pushed through in it really incredible and and you know thought provoking and graceful way. She's actually wasn't who I've talked to very really after it happened. Because did she reach out to you she did. Yeah actually and I don't know how she got my contact Info but yes. She was one of the early ones to reach out. 'cause she'd been public. Shame date night. That's true I had. Yeah I had. Everyone had my contact info. Good good point Yes she she was. She was just great and And I think she's she's working on some great projects and And you know we all I think. We are shaped by our experiences especially the traumatic experiences. I know we are And for her now she's she's she's addressing head on the issue of public shaming and I. I think that that's really important something that we needed addressing yet. One thing. That's interesting about Monica Lewinsky. And this is very catty. Cometh I'm about to make but Maureen Dowd one holzer for calling her a slut for like a year right and now Monica Lewinsky is like clearly a better writer than Maureen. Dowd which I think is the very best revenge. Maureen Dowd is like party. And who's like the last one at your house? And you're like leave. Maureen Maureen Maureen. Wrote the the worst thing about me in the in in the aftermath of it. Hers was one of the ones that I was like this being written about by a woman in the New York Times is like like I had a big fuck you moment that I yeah I mean I think we all at this table agree. Fuck Maureen Dowd when I watched the CNN panel last night even talking about the election and it was you know a pretty diverse group right. Yang and Van van Johnson. Yeah And it was the one white woman on the panel. Who Loria border. Is that her name? Blue Dress with blonde hair short blonde. Hair Dana Bash. She looked like a Fox anchor but he was okay and she was the one who was saying. I mean wished us really thought worn would perform better. I mean her losses. It's just embarrassing. And she was using such nastiness took to describe her campaign which was actually winning. Campaign was because you guys fucking a raised her from all of your coverage and then all of a sudden in this aftermath has listening to all these guys like you know. She really was just the smartest one up there. It's a real shame and thanks. Where the hell were the where the fuck where you guys at that. Only comfortable with a woman if she's down and out and and going away and to that to that point do you think that the adage of women need to support women and women. Supporting women is actually doing us. Harm that there's a standard that we all need to be as a monolithic community supporting each other and when that fails to happen when we don't do that for whatever reason whether it be you know people just being nasty or generally not supporting another woman. Because they don't have the same ideology does that ultimately hurt the movement of Feminine Feminine Femininity. I assume I don't know if if the if the idea that we need to support other women is harmful I don't think that it's carried out nearly as much as it should be. And a perfect example for that is in my primary and this is the case for across the board the women who made it through their primaries Especially women over a certain age. The really like wanted to vote for a man in the primary and a lot of it was like. I don't think a woman can beat Steve Night and my case or I don't think a woman can beat Donald Trump or whatever it might be But there's also there's this like there's this internalized sexism that we have and that we aren't we have not even remotely fully confronted so. I think that there is a That the the notion of women supporting women like we need to really internalize that and figure out. What does that mean for us and and again I do think that the younger generation does a better job of that. We don't believe that there's just room at the top for one woman But I and we're able to visualize women in leadership positions in in a better way but women over fifty five fifty five to seventy I lost by twenty five points in the primary now. Interestingly women over seventy I think maybe who've been through fellow the movement towards equality previously and who are like Jesus. I can't believe that I'm in my seventies. Now go girl. Yeah so there was some there was. I did better among them and then women under fifty five. I definitely did. But like there's there's a group there and you know I just think that there's We Are we are harder on ourselves including other women than I'm than we should be. Well I also think women in that age group and I think a lot of times we see this in different industries. Entertainment also Women in that age group really had to go through some shit to get to where they are when they see women younger than them. Don't have to go through the same shit. They're like you didn't have to. You don't have to go through. You don't have to live your life the way that I look at my life in fear of engaging in the type of sexual relationships that I wanted to engage him. I made the decision to follow the rules. The rules have changed. And now your going to suffer the consequences and women in the in the fifties to seventies also weren't given the same opportunities so they don't understand that a woman that there could be intellectual parody or that there could be power parody. I don't think they understand that because they were given a choice. Like you're going to be a a waitress a model or a hairdresser like you know or or a teacher you know and I feel like sometimes when they yeah. You don't get to choose chooses you but I I do sometimes wonder like I put myself in their head space and I think like what is it. What do they look at with you and I I think I wonder if they genuinely go well? You must be intellectually limited. Because you can't you can't possibly know as much as a man I don't know about intellectually as much as as educationally or or I think it's more of I really think it's like who who they see as somebody who is in charge and there are elements of leadership qualities. Like you know frankly risk taking a aggressiveness that are seen as positives in men and are very quickly seen as negatives in women and to reconcile those two things. I think takes some mental navigation. That is so true. I WANNA pivot really quickly to the Shitty -ness of your ex. And and the shitting of the way that the photos came out I've seen it characterized as revenge porn. Do you believe it still to be revenge porn. And what are you doing? If anything to combat revenge porn for other women can you give us an overview of what of what happens if someone commits revenge porn? Yeah so so first of all We prefer the term cyber exploitation. And that's something that I really learned about from my From my attorney who is like the best in the country for this and who victims rights attorney. I didn't know that thank you for that. Yeah we're in the middle of the election time right now but as the pack Kind of grows and and continues is to put together a legislative priorities around it and to work with those leaders to say okay. This is part of the endorsement. Like are you going to prioritize this? Are these the bills that you'RE GONNA sign onto? And and then how do we educate people like? It's not even a crime in a lot of different places and even now We're probably we're we don't know that he'll ever get prosecuted and if he is it the maximum sentence the maximum sentence in. California is six months. And you know how in California like people serve six days for six months and that so i. I'm not optimistic about anything on the criminal side. Honestly I just want to be divorced from the motherfucker. That's like my biggest thing and I'm not so and so That's like the that's the biggest thing for me but after this actually I'm recording a video about like what are what are resources for women and if you if you experience this And we have to fight it. They're they're real legal battles that need to be To that need to be undertaken to change the laws that make it that make it much harsher consequences and and much more possible for women to even have their photos removed from online because copyright law says that the person who took the photo owns it. Even if the person who's in it doesn't consent to being used so there's there are all kinds of messed up things around and I think also technologically. We're getting to place where cyber exploitation is becoming A. It's it's easier to just fake this stuff and then what happens if you know? You're photo shopped into a picture. That isn't was ever even taken. It never was never realized no protection. So there's an urgency there. I mean twitter did a is doing a half ass thing now where they If they sense a deep fake on something they'll put a little decal on it or possibly from the website They were just talking about this yesterday. but it still like if you're in your face or its its purported to be a you in a photo. There's not very much you can do now right especially if the website is hosted elsewhere. It's it seems crazy and I think that just to kind of bring it around what you're saying. Before the complete international right you can't get around that will the complete unpreparedness of us as a country and as like a set of states different laws to handle the ways in which the Internet and social media can be used to exploit. People is a reflection of shortcomings within our elected representatives because they don't understand and it changes so fast the law slow even when it's even when it's doing well right the the legal system is just not and I don't think that's necessarily always a bad thing is that you know. I don't think that we should be able to change the law in a heartbeat But I do think that it. It is not set up for regulation especially around technology and that was actually something that I was working on when I was in Congress as one of the younger members like how are we getting ready for artificial intelligence. How are we? How are we actually going to be regulating these companies and one of the things that is is a major battle within Within the space of cyber exploitation? And you know. How do we need to address this issue? Moving forward is it's Section to thirty of the Communications Decency Act and what it does. It had nothing to do with anything related to this. But basically it's a clause that makes it so the Internet companies are not accountable. They they're not responsible for user content so it allows twitter and facebook. And every you know every other major I guess those are the big ones now To say Oh. Read it to say that. This isn't their responsibility. Oh it's just users sorry And and they they they were. They don't have any kind of liability for it. Well the issue is that those companies have the fucking money To really to to do the regulation required and if they were the ones that could be that that could be held responsible for either from regulatory standpoint or from litigation than Than there would be forced changed but and I think that that's the way to go is to actually force the companies to have responsibility. But that means that means you're up against money because they don't want to spend the money that way. Okay so imagine. We live in a world where we've come to terms with the fact that our politicians aren't perfect okay. They're still going to be a moral line that we have to draw so in your vision of the future. What does sensible forgiveness look like to me? It's taking responsibility. It's do you have somebody who who is willing to acknowledge what they've done in the past and says that this is what. I'm going to do moving forward to try to aid to make sure that I don't do it again. And beat to To to make amends for it right and that's what I'm trying to deal and and I and I know because I do believe and I you know I'm right. Nearby is the place where I started my career. Path people assisting the homeless and You know the whole principle around working with people. Who are you know who who are experiencing mental illness or who have dealt with addiction or or experiencing homelessness is is about recovery? We have to believe in people being able to rehabilitate in believe that people can have a second chance but like are you. Do you say I made a mistake. This is why maybe why doesn't even matter right like do you even need to justify a but like this is this is how I believe this is how learn grown from the experience and this is what I'm going to do moving forward and and then it's up to each person. Is that enough for you or do you want to see more? And I don't know what more is like. I honestly WANNA know from people who who who can't forgive me now. What what do you want to see? And I've heard a of people say especially on the right like you. You aren't taking responsibility for it and it's like well please tell me how can more rain like? I don't know So I guess that's that's to what it is about is like if you've if you've done something that has been judged has is widely believed to be morally wrong. What are you? How are you responding to that? And what are you GonNa do to fix it? And how can we believe that you have learned from that experience? And they're not going to do it again. I mean that's a good note to Katie. Thank you so much for stopping die. We take a break when we come back sanity corner. Hysteria is brought to you by ritual. We deserve to know what we're putting in our bodies and why and that's why rituals founder is on a mission reinvent. The vitamin industry ritual left out mystery additives synthetic fillers shady extras that can be found in some traditional multivitamins and committed to showing you their nutrients where it came from and why they chose it. They call it. Traceability ritual uses vegan certified non. Gmo gluten free and allergen free ingredients and their sources are out there for the whole world to see because they believe you deserve to know what you're putting in your body and why one thing. 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So if you're going to be a critical please be constructive about it. Also if you have a question about it navigating a tough situation at work or how to make friends as an adult or maybe you're just looking for some advice. You can send an email to hysteria. Crooked Dot Com with your questions and we might answer them in our weekly video segment dude. You asked which is posted on crooked media's socials and finally the hysteria sleep mask just got restocked on the crooked store says fuck off a bunch of times on it over and over again which I think a lot of us would like to say in our lives and it's great for when you need your beauty sleep or to just be left alone. You can check it out at crooked dot com slash store. Okay guys let's do sanity corner and we're back. Thanks for listening to all those wonderful ads for products and services that you may wish to purchase working to do a segment this week called sanity corner. There's a lot of political news out there and a lot of it is confusing overwhelming depressing. Or you know pandemic scary So let's talk about things. Now that have brought us joy or that. Make US happy and don't have anything to do with politics I'M GONNA start. Mine is a story and ten gently related to politics But it's in a in a happy way so I was on. Msnbc on Monday and they sent a car to come and get me. And I was running late for my hit to MSNBC. And I go to my street and there's a puppy in the middle of the street and I thought I called to Iran over to the puppy. The puppy was so thank you. The puppy was kind of brindle. Black and Brown looks like it was maybe a whippet small Greyhound Mick. It was definitely a Mutt and ran over to me and immediately just rolled over and showed me belly. Knows like Oh. My God didn't have a collar ono so I picked it up like a crazy person and I took it to my apartment. We have this little like back deck area. That has a fence that closes so I put it on the deck in tried to block the like the gap that it could've gotten out and I was like wait here to go do. Tv on the car. Ride to Santa. Monica. I was texting my friends and one of my friends who Kobe Volunteers to come and take you know. Take care of it until I got home and I was so preoccupied with it. I was like Oh my God. I hope it's going to be okay. Hope it doesn't get out BLAH BLAH preparing to keep puppy. I know we have a dog and a cat and they know the dog and the cat have a real Pete Buddha judge. Amy Clue where the dog is. Like I love you more me me and the cat is like no for sure. Do not want more you so you know I co. Kobe went over to my apartment. And I'm like all preoccupied with this puppy texting whatever and get there and when I'm in the Green Room Mayor Eric. Garcetti of Angeles is in the Green Room. Looking extremely may oral wearing a suit dislike very put together in Inter I get introduced to him in the first thing I say is. I voted of young my street. I was like it. Seemed like there was. Maybe something wrong with it. So he went on the air and then I went on the air and afterwards I saw my friend. Kobe had texted me and she had gone over to my house to get. The puppy went down to the street and when she went down to the street one of the neighbors was is that Mario recognized. Mario called Mario's owner because Mario had gotten out earlier today. To Mario's mom came over to get Mario and my friend. Kobe texted me. A picture of the two. Being reunited. Law has a very happy ending. Was Mom like come on or was mom life is. I'll show you the picture of Mario's licking her face. Mari So as soon as I caught up I'm in the green room about to leave and the mayor goes. How's the puppy? Mayors have to remember things the last is said to them and then they repeat it back to you. That's part of being a mayor and I was like. Oh we found the puppies owner. Everything's fine on his way out the mayor goes. You did a good deed today and I felt like a comic book protagonist. Plucky young girl reporters saving the city puppy. To tell you the key to the city. I can give you a key to a Kennel the next time you find a puppy yes. That's the key to a mailbox. Don't I want you to report back to me? Contents editor a wonderful story. Warn the puppy is fine. And everybody's happy and those device entity quarter Michaela. Do you want to go next share I Love Sanity Corner. I'm all about I'm all that. No I'm not I'm crazy in my insanity corner is what it looks like because it's just bags and bags of fucking yarn and needles and have projects and started projects but knitting is a new thing for me. It's I'm a novice. It's been the last couple of years I. My husband made a sweater recently. My husband's like I can't believe you haven't murdered it already. I have no patience. I'm not into like Mandela's on that like let's make a thing and then destroy it. When I knit I start something. I don't like it I take it all apart. I've been working on it for a week and I start over. It's like bringing out this other weird fucking you know like does any kind of side of me. I go in knits doors. I go into like tactile wool shops and touch all the all the all the she'd like. It's everybody should do it when I'm doing it. I feel sto good and then sometimes you just. I was onset last week and I just banged out a hat and I just turned two and it's such a cute hat and I just turned to one of my other actors and I'm like this is your hat. And she was so happy she looks so cute and that hat and and I was like we made a thing came off a sheep. Now on your head I. I can't tell you how got from the sheep to my bag. That's a whole other thing but I always joke that if like aliens came and got me and they would say you know like explain the sweater I'd be like I don't know sheep and then a sweater But now I understand at least how it goes from a ball of yarn into his wetter and It is it's it's it keeps you really sharp. 'cause YOU'RE CONSTANTLY. I owning your your your learning. You're always learning a new pattern. You're learning new thing. There's free patterns you can go and robbery and like get free patterns and And just say today I'm GonNa make a sock and then you kind of start one and then finish it and then you come back. You're like what was I doing? And then you take it apart and you and you salvage the wall and because it's expensive will that is a thing will will is kind of pricey but But you know you could be smart about it and and and and make just you can make. You can make one scarf for half year. If you're so you know I feel like this was a commercial knitting it. Sounds like it sounds like I'm super. I'm so I'm so chuffed with myself actually learned how to do something and valid through and I and I and I can't believe how much I love something that is like the granny arts can't believe how much I love. The great thing about the grand yards like cross stitch needlepoint. Although like quilting whatever is that. They're so feminized that they'll never go tech. Bros. that's going to be are those are ours forever. However I will say that I you would be surprised. Who KNITS I? Have these big lake big grips that come over to me. And they're like Oh. I love knitting. I should bring my knitting and I like you AM I. What do you knit I made you know? I made a sweater for my dog. And I'm like I am not kidding. We gotta get Mario. I love this. I love the knitting underground pursue the dirty world. Grace do you WANNA go next Yes okay so I don't want you. Michaela creeped out by this but this morning I was thinking about my sanity corner in the shower. Okay and I like what would be interested. I'm intrigued and I was like what's what I watched recently. What have I been into and I was like. Oh my God and it struck me that. I saw the amazing movie in a world for the first time like a week ago. And if you've not seen in a world first of all it starts a lovely beautiful Michaela Watkins Stars like Bill. It's like it's like bell joint who I believe wrote and directed and also I mean it's a real it is so funny and I never seen it until like a week or two ago. I meant to text you and let you know that I thought for the First Time. It was amazing and feminist anthem. Other daughter story has a strong and fully realized female characters adult oil fulfill hokey stacked cast fina world world world about the voice over industry and just in great so funny and it so the voice over industry is the backdrop for a woman who's breaking into a male dominated industry yet one. Yeah Yeah and and I can't believe I hadn't seen by the way my fiance straight white dude was the one who recommended it and he also had seen it before and he loved it so it's not one of those like owed vinnie's movie is universal is really really funny. I'm delighted that finally got a chance to watch it. And I guess I think of Michaela in the shower thing anybody ever Katie Hill brings home with your sanity quarter. So I've been thinking about this too and I was like I feel like I have so many different things that I would wanna talk about the one last night I was I was hanging out with a couple of friends and This one is just really funny and it brought joy. I feel like I'm going to think about. This is stressing out another in other situations. So I've never gone to this person's house before and you go upstairs and the first thing you see is a Jack. Elope like the head of a jacket expected that send so and then and then you go into the bathroom and Y- there's a stuffed rooster like taxidermy rooster in the bathroom. So you have to explain this. Why Why is There Jack? Elope and like this is not a hunter. This is not a person that like. You would expect this from at all. And he's like well. It's a funny story I I wouldn't throw bad break up a couple of years ago and I decided that I was going to buy the weirdest thing I could find on the Internet and I'm like okay great and to shorten the story The thing that he found on the Internet was a stuffed bison like full sized bison organ and he got it from Oregon China Mike. Okay so where do you have? The Bison scillies has done in the garage so we go downstairs and there's a stuffed bison and he's like yeah just started this thing and I've got a bunch of taxidermy animal and like they weren't creepy normally tax. D- like these are all animals that just died somehow got stuffed and he ended up with them. I feel like I should be really weirded out by this but there was something. There's something almost like I dunno profound in. There's all this death but it's not. I don't I don't know but other than that I've been watching. I've been sort of been Djing sex in the city from the beginning my happy place. Yeah I will I will. I will watch any rerun of sex in the city in any hotel room all night long rather than go out so I hadn't actually like watched it from start to finish before so really tells the tale and I'm now watching. It was like a different I rate like. Wow this twenty years ago more and like the how. How does this hold up with? Feminism as it is now it's renewal show back then. We really talk about nothing to do with politics. What was your what was your takeaway for who I'm not done okay. But there's irving judge I I just don't love Mr Big. But we all like SORTA rooted for him. I rooted for rich end up with the rich guy. Shit well then. Eight and kind of stepped in and he was boring. And everybody's like end up with the boring guy. I just want to close with my bonkers theory of sex in the city. Have you gotten to the part with trae? Sharlet yet I don't think so. Okay well there is a she has a future like entanglement with With this isn't really spoiler with a guy who's played by Kyle mclachlan and he has erectile dysfunction in in the story and a dominant mother in. Yeah my theory is that that Kyle. Mclachlan is agent Cooper forever and so all of sex and the city takes place in the black La from twin peaks. Why Dick doesn't work traumatize but that's yeah. It makes perfect sense. I mean it's real. Kevin in home alone is dead of sex and the city takes place in the Black Lodge. These are real Kevin home low. I wrote a whole piece release. Yes Okay Grace Michaela and Katie. Thank you so much for coming by today. Thank you to Elicit Mestre. Monico for calling in and thanks to you. For listening there will be more hysteria. Fan Hysteria is a product of crooked media. Carolina Reston is our producer. Our editor is Sarah Barrett and Kyle Seguin are sound engineer. Thank you to Juliet. Beckstrand production support and toward digital team Elisha cone and not Melconian for filming and editing video content. Every Week Nadi needs taty. Sorry you WanNa go to him to step with the Base. Make me from this realm goodness.

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How We Step Up! with Congressmember Katie Hill

Swing Left - How We Win

1:01:25 hr | 1 year ago

How We Step Up! with Congressmember Katie Hill

"I feel hopeful. Even though you said we record voter turnout I think we can do it. Oh we're GONNA do it yeah. I think it's going to exceed all expectations -tations yeah. I'm excited glass table. Here's what I'm not superstitious. I think we can do it. I know we can't it just depends on everyone showing up exactly yeah Welcome to our first episode of how we win. The run up to the two thousand twenty election is going to be riveting and every week. We'll share these stories. He's from the field all over the country. Ordinary people doing extraordinary things. We'll give you the tools that you need to jump in and make a difference right now. The clock is ticking and we want. I want you to join the party for our debut episode. We'll be chatting with the amazing Freshman Representative from California's Twenty Fifth District Katie Hill. She's going to share her story about stepping topping up running and winning her first campaign for Congress her surprising connection to swing left and what we need to do to win in twenty twenty then we're going to talk about some of the highest impact weighs you can make a difference like how you can help registered New Democratic voters in Super States what are superstate. We'll tell you all about that too. I'm Steve Pearson Pearson Mariah Craven and this is how we win Hey Maria Hey Steve. Usually we're GONNA use this spot in our show to talk a bit about current happenings in the news really to highlight alight areas where we've been successful also and give people an opportunity to do something about it not just a dissect news but to actually like here's what you can do right and we want to give people reasons for hope and let them know that they can make an impact but since this is our first episode we thought we would introduce ourselves is a little bit and talk about what people can expect from our show from how we win. So Maria introduce yourself hi Mariah Araya I did not start off with campaigns and working on campaigns and that sort of thing but once I got got in I was hooked and it started with a mayoral campaign in New York City. The candidate I was I was working for was AH progressive long shot up against a billionaire candidate. I think we all know who allegedly allegedly so. Mr Bloomberg allegedly had these phone bank parties that we heard of our there were. DJ's spinning for the Volunteers Okay Ed Unlimited Pizza and candy. I don't think any of that was true but that's what we were hearing and and and in spite of this sort of amazing being thing that greeted volunteers there we had volunteers come to our campaign office which was in a self storage facility in Brooklyn and it'd have act E. and it was dirty and dingy and people came to make phone calls and put up signs in Bodega March and parades with us to hand out lit. Am I am when I saw that I said I need to stick with us because anybody who's going to give up their evening there Saturday. They must really believe in something and those are the type of people I want to surround myself with and I also wanted to help elect and keep people in office who are under represented so I started working for folks Comma Harris when she was running for Senator in California and Congressman Karen Bass who's now the head of the Congressional Black Caucus Doc ID and Wendy Davis who's running for Governor of Texas now running for Congress and then I started working on efforts to help flip the house so I I met Steve and so many other folks so I o- on this podcast to be about recruiting people to join these incredible teams has no matter what their capacity is because that is how we win Nice. What's your story. Steve Very well said boy mine's much more recent. I consider myself class of November. Two Thousand Sixteen I done some like phone banking little light volunteering but had never gotten really involved with the campaign and we had a party for my daughter and her friends to watch the first female president get elected and it was the worst party ever our our family kind of went into a tailspin like many other families around the country around the world right and I had to do something but I'd always been like one of those like like well what what can I do. You know but there wasn't really an option I needed to do something because action is the best antidote furring Zaidi so I I jumped in and started volunteering headphones swing left my wife and I hosted House party that turned out to have two hundred people. We want it to a church down the street and I said Yes to too many things and I was coordinating groups all over southern California and got really involved in training events it just really took off and what I what I found early on in in one of the things. I'm really excited about this podcast. I didn't realize the space there was to really make an impact and if you're a person that shows up and and does stuff you know you will get recruited to do more stuff after show up though you have to show you have to show up so I wanted to share those stories with people and let them know that there is a space for everyone to make an impact and spoiler alert. That is how we win. That's it you you know if we show up and get our friends and neighbors and everyone to be part of this not just vote volunteer right. That's how we will win so I I can't wait to share these stories and Katie. Hill is the perfect person start with because that's how we first met was working twenty five right and she won because people people showed up before Election Day. That's how we did it. We organize early. That's what we have to do right now. I don't want anyone listening to this thinking that they can wait to get involved. They need to get involved right now. So let's get started in twenty eighteen seen as a result of a lot of early organizing an historic volunteer engagement. We flipped forty. Congressional district. That's right across the country and the exciting I know elected an amazing new class of diverse energetic leaders to the House of Representatives. One of these great new leaders is representative Katie Hill from California her story parallels many of our own as we jumped into the fray to fight back against trump and the Republican agenda her her campaign was a true grassroots effort as this first time candidate became one of our youngest representatives and has already found herself in well-deserved leadership positions. That's Representative Hill. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I I wanted to talk about the campaign so that will do it and you do. You have a particularly unique swing left story due to yeah. How did you come to run for Congress. So the a really started I think is so many people who who ran this past election cycle when trump got elected it was a wakeup call for me and and so so many people I knew I worked with the homeless organization path people assisting the homeless and as the executive director I had spent a lot of my time and energy the over over the years really working to develop policy and build the political will to address homelessness here on the local level and that was culminating with with getting a proper h h h on the ballot in November of two thousand sixteen. We got it onto. The ballot was prop Richard. It was was it was a a housing measure a bond measure to build permanent supportive and affordable housing and In really address homelessness in scale that we've never done in certainly in l. a. and really in any community across the country. There's never been an investment that significant. It was over a billion dollars. There's and over a course of time and so it's it's an exciting ballot initiative. We we were optimistic that it would pass but you know we we didn't want to let anything up and it was a grassroots effort to try and get it to pass and it did pass with almost eighty percent of the vote but instead of being able to celebrate you know everyone was in my office. The next day crying saying Donald Trump is president. We've got a Republican held house and Senate and they ran a campaign on getting rid of the affordable care act which is so crucial in the work that we do. I mean it had made it possible for people to you know literally. He's saving lives. People who were dying on the streets before had access to healthcare and you know it was funding a lot of the services that we were providing and and you know it meant jobs were on the line. People's lives were on the line. you know this in the victory that we'd had with probation was almost it was it was in a way just a an afterthought because without the services housing can only do so much and so. I didn't have a good answer for my team and other than to say well. We've gotta we've got to continue to fight on local funding initiatives and we have to we're going to have to flip the house. That's the first opportunity we're going to get to to put a check on what this administration can do and you know an and sort of attempts to get to rollback coverage into into rollback programs that we know are so vital so we started working on the local initiative called measure h which was the corresponding county initiative to provide. I'm services dollars service dollars and that was one side of it but on the other side I said okay. How am I going to get involved in the midterms. I want to do something and I'd never frankly frankly. I'd never really done political campaigns in any real way. That just wasn't wasn't something that I I you know I voted and I I was it was always following politics but where I got involved was on you know on the NGO side on the on the non-profit side I mean every year with planned parenthood and and and you know with other organizations like the homeless services organizations and things like that but I was like this is the time this is the time I have to get involved in a campaign and you know I know there are literally early millions of people across the country who had that same exact thought after the two thousand sixteen election and so in the months following started thinking about okay where the district's that I I knew that it was about flipping the house where the district's that we can flip and so I start doing a little bit of research about it and it was at swing left was the website that I found so so plug in my zip code I it was you searched zip code right. It was and and the district the swing district popped up was my own district and I was like wait a second. No no way I mean I grew up in in the twentieth district where it had been held by a Republican my whole life in its current form. It's never been held by a Democrat until now and it's where cops and firefighters live. It's a huge veterans community. the former representative before. Steve Knight was chairman of Armed Armed Services and it was it's a place where people if you if you were to say. Oh yeah this is a district that could flip to a Democrat people literally would laugh in your face right so so it didn't even occur to me that that could be a possibility until I saw it and I was like this is great. I'M GONNA get involved in my own district. This is amazing and I didn't even know before looking that up that Hillary Clinton had one in our district and so I was like okay this is this is really amazing so as I was like okay who's GonNa run. Who's WHO's the candidate and I ended up finding out that candidate from the last time around from WHO'd want who had run in two thousand sixteen the Democratic nominee was the likeliest to run again. and I just didn't feel like his background was one that resonated with our district and we saw that right we saw. Hillary Clinton had won by almost seven but he had lost by six but and Steve Knight the Republican incumbent had won by six so you know to me that's a that's a significant gap and that's one that we have to figure out how to close and so I'm complaining about this right. I'm like saying to my to my friends and colleagues like okay we got we got to find somebody who can run whose like from this community who really understands it who knows how to talk to you know law enforcement and to the to the people who are really in the middle of what happens when you do too much complaint now and so and so that's what that's what one of my mentors Said said. She's like well. You're complaining an awful lot about this like you've got that kind of background. Why don't you run and I was like no. No no no no no. That's not something that people like me do you. I didn't Tony Politicians that were in. I mean certainly not something that my family is. My my dad's my mom's a nurse. My grandfather was a political science professor but that was something you studied studied not something that you did and so finally. I was like well. You know what if ever there is a moment to do something like this. This is is the time and I remember talking to my loved ones and saying you know if I'm GonNa try something like this. It's you know I don't have the money. The you know a normal an oral political campaign comes with I don't have the the connections or backing of the institutions. This is going to be a truly grassroots campaign that starts with all of us that really starts with the networks that we have the community that we've built so the first meeting that we had I kinda gathered my my family and friends together and we met at Chili's restaurant in Stevenson ranch. Did you have baby back ribs. We just drinks chips. I think and we kinda laid it out and and it just grew from there so it's it's just amazing to how far things have come and you know just seeing that growth over time how many volunteers came on board and by the end of it all how this was so much more than it was it was it wasn't about me. You know what I mean. It was just it was about it was about what's possible for our country with possible for our generation what's possible and what we have to do to to reflect the the values and the diversity in the everything that this nation stands for won't really well said and also it it as you're talking about about chilies and like the people in your community who knew you from path then who knew you from you know whatever job you has a teenager an elementary circle and and now you represent them in Congress. What is it like going back to your home district. Oh Yeah it's so funny. I mean I so so now. People people know me everywhere and it's it's very easy for me when I'm back home to just kind of forget that I'm now a figure right so so I go out and I didn't have my makeup. I had my hair up. I'm wearing like you know whatever and and then I go to Barcelona like I'm going to get a book because I'm going to be on the plane and I'm trying try. I'm trying to like Kinda US this. This period this work period as a little bit more relaxing than you normally have somebody uh I'm GonNa read a book. This is so exciting so I go to Barnes and noble which by the way I used to work at A. worked at right after high school and so like going through thinking not even thinking it doesn't even occur to me that people people recognize me so I go up to the counter to buy the book and the guy goes like so how's Washington and I'm like who are. How do I know you and then I'm like. Oh wait. Of Of course you know who I am and it's like you got on some really good committees on. I'm like Yep and then today I went into the frozen yogurt place and somebody was like is that the congresswoman and so it's very it's just it's not something that I'm used to at all and you know these are people who in some cases you run into people that you've known since you were a little kid and but now you're I dunno representing him and it's it's it's a strange contrast to when you go to DC. What book did you get what I was. GonNa ask to follow ups or want to know what book you got an what Flavor frozen yogurt okay so I ended up buying a couple books the book that I read on the on the flight was play it as it lays by Joan diddy in very like. It's very if you haven't read it then. It's it's a serious read for sure but it's really really good and then the other is called the power. It's a it's feminists seminarists novel so excited to read it but I haven't gone there yet yeah cool. I'm in frozen yogurt. I am a original tart flavor person with chocolate chips and almonds. Ah Nice yeah well always the same. I'm the same the same I know. I don't know if it's Jamba or GIAMPA Jumba for sure for sure because my daughter always gives me a hard time anyway jumper Jabba. I say it's so many different ways just to mess with her that I don't even know Jumba Juice Chamba Chamba okay. I think we should just be yeah but back to your campaigns which was fueled. I think in part by job L. M. Lacroix and monster energy. I mean like let's just give the real corporate shadows here and the Mexican restaurant next to your campaign office. Oh Yeah who gave all those beautiful breakfast burritos on election day that was really nice. I don't remember which one Julie's yes next to the the one in Stevenson ranch anyway autographs but you did have like this incredible amount of volunteer in the turn out for your canvases were ridiculous Diculeng. This is amazing. It was really amazing. how I mean it's an obvious question how important where you volunteers to you but also was there a particular your experience with the volunteer. That really stood out for you. Gosh there's so many because the we started the primary I announced in March of two thousand seventeen and so it was very long campaign and it started with such a small number of people but it kept growing over time and so throughout the course of the primary I was like you know this is incredible. How many volunteers we have showing up to help us. In a primary wearing you know there were unprecedented numbers of people who are helping us. I'm even even then but then after the after the primary it just like the floodgates opened and what I still hear constantly when I'm out in the community is the people that call our people not in our volunteers or staffer whenever you start people did such a great job of going around the community. They came to our neighborhood hood so many times they knocked on my door so many times I got all that literature like with notes on it from people saying that they stopped by and I just didn't have a choice I had to go oh and I might not it's exactly what it's supposed to be and just during get out the vote weekend we had over five thousand volunteers who who came out and if you know from all across a Ah across the state and certainly across the region and I think the stories that stand out to me when really it's really the young people then that I think we're the most incredible and kids I mean really really young. People who were who are paying attention who were into do it not just because their parents were dragging them around but like they were the ones I heard from from many parents that it was there ten or eleven year old who said we have to we have to do something about this and that's how they ended up getting involved and then on the other side you know I heard over and over again from people who said that they hadn't done for older folks who said they hadn't done something like this. Since Kennedy you know this is just at this moment when it requires all of us to step up in a way that it probably of the people who showed up to volunteer for us I would say ninety percent solidly had never done anything political or if they had it. They've been you know marginal. Maybe they did a day in Vegas for you know one of the presidentials before or something like that but it was a first time experience for so many people and I hope that they had a good enough experience that they're gonNA come back and if it's not for me then for you know the presidential race or for some of the other key districts across the country because we have to keep the house. There's no doubt about that. We need to flip the Senate and and we need to take take back the White House so yeah. I think a lot of people in southern California you know you because they feared for your campaign but I think people outside of California probably you from the vice news documentaries humidity's aired on HBO talk about our commitment to transparency yeah. What was it like being followed around by those cruise and why is it something that you do again. Yes so when I decided to originally the kind of pitch from vice was like we'll follow around for a little bit and we wanna give like a like an eight or nine minute segment on what a campaign is like this early in the primary process and they wanted to do do it about women the women who are running in the primaries and and I thought it was like this is this is important to me as somebody who's coming into this for the first time all of the things that I'd learned by being involved you know as a candidate I felt like people should know I think that if you want people across the board to buy into democracy into get involved they need to they need to know what happens behind the scenes and they need to understand that it needs to be accessible in a way that it hasn't been and so I was like I want to do this and and and my consultants my team were very nervous because it's it is this level of transparency. I mean though right shaking who's been with me since the very beginning but she she and the rest of the team were like okay. We'll we'll try it but normally you you know historically and I think even to a certain extent still politicians have cultivated image that you that you that you work to create and maintain and when you have a crew following you around nonstop they were with US constantly. You don't you don't get to do do that. you just even if you tried which. I wasn't really trying but even if you did try you get so used to having cameras around that you you forget and that's. I mean that shows you that. They're good at their jobs right like it's the point of a documentary crew. There were a couple of points where things that happened in it. Were caused a little bit of trouble but I feel like overall. It was a I mean I wouldn't. I wouldn't change anything about it. I think even the things that were probably less than ideal. Were ones that that I feel like showed that you know this wasn't this wasn't a commercial. This wasn't this wasn't something that we had any kind of editorial say over. This was a real attempt for me to to hopefully show people what what it's like in also that I and not just me but so many of my regular people oh and trying to trying to trying to do something good so I feel like you know you kind of continued that transparency now as has representative yeah I mean you know putting out the way you communicate putting out videos defeat because there's a lot of other new Congress Congress members who are doing the same yeah yeah. you feel like it's a new way that we do communicating. I really do and I think that what what people are finding is that that's the only way you can relate anymore. I mean I I feel like our generation has just an incredibly astute sense of bullshit and if you think they're never gonNA believe a campaign ad but if you're just talking to them like a regular person they get a sense of whether you're sincere whether you you know her are saying what you mean and meaning what you say and I I feel like my colleagues get that and I think I think it comes from the fact that we have a different age group that has now come in to Congress. I mean we had to millennials before for this wave now. I don't even know what the number is but our group of sixty four freshmen Democrats we lowered the age of the average age of a member of Congress I by ten years just through this class which is wild when you think about it and I just think that completely changes how the long run that's GonNa Change how politics works and certainly going to change the focus and the priorities and and hopefully the level of accountability that we've got to regular people as opposed to accessibility for the people who don't feel like they can relate or have a voice. We have in our politics and you know. I think it's important to recognize that. Most people will never have a face to face interaction with their representative just because they're they work. Some many people work two jobs. They've got kids kids. They've got extracurricular activities. They're living their lives and you know they're not gonNa make it to town hall or they're not. GonNa have an opportunity to to go to some kind of an event. That's happening. The you know even if they want to. It's just a matter of time I never met my member of Congress before and you and hang out with Steve. Knight didn't granted I'd met other members of Congress but through my job and that's because I had a job that like required that but but yeah regular people that's not something that you that you feel connected to in any way and I think that that's why in large part we've had low voter participation because people haven't felt a connection to the person who's representing them. They haven't felt a connection to the the impact that those the decisions that are being he made have on their day to day lives and they they haven't felt like they're actually being represented and so these kinds of videos the way that we're trying to connect people over social media. I feel like that really matters in terms of you're able to no no and I guess kind of air. Quotes your representative in a way that you just wouldn't previously you really briefly about fundraising. I don't talk too much about fundraising because it's not a fun. Conversation is important and I think I'm glad that you're ringing up at all because it is one of those things that it's like. Oh we want to stay away from that topic but it's it's so important for people to understand a why we have to do it and be that this is you know. I hope people who are listening to this podcast are many many of them are considering running for some kind of office A-. At some point now and and so knowing the role that fundraising is going to have to play in your life is something to be aware of did you we know that going in. I did at least on some level because I knew I knew going into the conversations like you hear over and over again from anyone who's run for office like fundraising fundraising fundraising and like Asu but so I knew that I was going to have to raise a lot especially to try and defeat an incumbent and but when you think about a lot that's not you're not fully able to kind of comprehend. I never would have thought eight and a half million dollars which is what we ended up having to raise by the end of it and frankly if you'd said eight and a half million dollars to me from individual donations that are no higher than twenty any seven hundred dollars. from a single person would have like laughed and said all right. I will count me out now. 'cause that's never. GonNa Happen so it was these these incremental goals that seemed so impossible each step of the way that you somehow managed to achieve that that worked us up to that final number but I didn't didn't think about how how much how how truly important it is to getting your final message out because you know I think in an initially a politician in including myself or somebody who wants to be a politician that is not coming from kind of a an a formally educated a political background. you think you think grassroots right. You're like I'm going to do it with the people I'm GONNA go out. I'm going to talk to to everybody. That's going to do it but the reality is that Congressional Congressional district. You're representing seven hundred twenty five thousand people and I don't care how much time you spend out on the streets. You will never talk to all those people so it took some time for me to come to terms with the fact that the only way that you're going to be able to actually get your message out to a lot of those people are is is by raising the money to be able to do that through TV through mail through social media and and that's just the that's just the reality of it and we had swing left had our district funds raised money right after the Hindu that being that was so good that was an awesome afternoon that was so great yeah and you were pretty much tapped out at that point at expensive primary. Oh Yeah and every one of my colleagues that made it through the primary. I don't think anyone anything left we. I didn't want to go into debt during the primary because he either I was going to be out and not able to raise any money or We were going to need everything after two to go towards the towards the general so you finish the primary. Suddenly we've got to go into the general election you have to staff up not down and your next payroll is two weeks out or less than that and and so the fact the swing left funds came in when they did was just it was it was so great. I mean literally the next day we found out that it was coming. It's like this huge sigh. I have really and so it sounds like you. You've learned a lot since you've been in Congress and a lot from running your first winning verse campaign. I winning campaign pain wet lessons. Are you going to take from twenty eighteen moving into twenty twenty that we could all learn from as well Gosh. That's a great question. I guess the top the the number one thing that I came out of two thousand eighteen with was that the field mattered so much and that the turn out was vital and I you know I feel like you're still hearing this debate. Between people of whether persuasion is the the way to win these districts or if turnout is and I would argue very strongly that it's both but that you cannot I honestly believe that you cannot win in these races and turn in flipped them without turn out so I think you have to have the persuasion element as well but but you don't have the option of leaving votes what's on the table and so explain briefly the difference between turnout and persuasion so turn out means that you're literally getting people to show up and vote and a AH Barack Obama talks about this all the time and you hear others but if you just look at the population in general of eligible voters well over fifty five to sixty percent are democratic democratic leaning likely to vote for Democrats but we just don't show up in the numbers that we should so if you know if we're able to mobilize and ensure that people are able to vote and and know why they need to feel like their voices going to be heard and their vote matters in is going to be counted then we win every time but that requires it requires people power and it requires a requires a lot of time and effort and you know it it means that you really have to have those boots on the ground of people knocking on doors and and like I heard from those in My district who said your people such a great job it means going going back over and over and over again and saying like hey can. We count on your support. Hey are you definitely going to show up and vote. Do you have any questions about your polling place or now that we're doing mail in ballots or the whole voting. Voting System is changing for twenty twenty in California. We have to be really on top of that in terms of making sure that people know how to vote that they're registered that the registered with the right address like it's really important to go oh to inform people and that's important in California just imagine how important that is in places where voting rights are under attack and where the state legislatures. I have an and the powers that be have made it so to just try and make it as difficult as possible to suppress the vote so the the the activism activism that needs to happen. you know in states like you know in the south. It's going to be absolutely vital for the the volunteers to to assist in that effort okay so I I got off off target a little bit but persuasion are is important though before starbuck persuasion because because I think it's important to understand like you said that voting rights are still very much under attack and so the work that we do on the ground is so essential 'cause it's not a fair fight yep exactly exactly and and so I'm just such a believer in Infield and I I was before but after having been through it it's just solidified that belief for me and a million times over and the power of a- volunteers like I think that it you know we didn't do a huge amount of paid field because we had this incredible grassroots energy but if people keep showing up that allows that allows us to go so much further everydollar is able to go so much further you know an an invest in the areas that you really need to because you've got people on the ground who are doing that critically the important work but yeah that's that's my that's my biggest takeaway but I would all as far as persuasion goes. Persuasion is kind of that group of people in the middle who you can be persuaded either way to vote for a Republican or Democrat. You're independent voters typically fall into that category but you also have you know kind of certain certain. Democrats and Republicans towards the middle that fall into the persuasion category and again you WanNa leave a single vote on the table. So if somebody somebody is really dissatisfied with the president or with you know they have for example one of the one one of the persuasion areas that I think has has gotten more and more important especially for suburban women is the issue of gun violence and and so if if they are frustrated you're feeling insecure about you know their kids safety with the Senate like that. They're persuadable right. They might have voted Republican forever but this could could be the chance to change their minds and and the only way that you can really effectively change. Somebody's mind is through a concerted effort which is also through her field right well. That's a good segue actually into the work that you're doing now as a representative. One thing that I think is really frustrating is is all this amazing work that you guys are doing and House representatives and specifically some of the gun legislation that you've passed through and and and then it doesn't even get a look in Senate so what are some things that we can do to help support that and to put pressure on to get that legislation education through yeah well. The answer is not. It's not a great answer because the reality is that that it has to come the public pressure is what's. GonNa make anything happen and if the public pressure isn't enough because Mitch McConnell won't budge from it or others won't budge from it. The president is just it doesn't care beyond his base. Etcetera Etcetera then the public pressure has to come next November and and that is where you know swing left after as as an organization and all of these grassroots organizations are going to be absolutely vital and I I feel like there's a certain certain amount of of awareness going in that well we're coming in. We're GONNA have the house control of the House but we won't have the Senate. We won't have the White House so so most legislation is not going to happen right like we just kind of you kind of know that especially knowing where Mitch McConnell is on things where president trump is on things and and how how how divided the parties are right now but I feel very strongly that what we're doing now in terms of passing this legislation is laying a marker that shows what Democrats will do what we're willing to do what we stand for and what we should be doing as soon as we get. People in power are who who reflect our values and to me. I don't think we have an option but to flip the Senate in the White House. Certainly I mean to me. That's a given but I hear a lot of people I'll say oh well. We're not very likely that we're going to get the Senate this cycle and I'm no don't say don't say that first of all. That's totally discounting. How people are gonNA show up this time. in a way that they've that. I don't think we've we will have seen turn out on the scale that we're. GonNa see in two thousand twenty but also if if you say we're not gonNA to get the Senate that we're not going to get the Senate 'cause you're not GonNa try and I think it is completely possible to get the Senate if you enforce suits right. If you focus on showing on on getting adding people to show up I mean these are not areas where where only Republicans live in this state. It's just a matter of overcoming the barriers that exist in terms of in terms of voting rights in terms of voter suppression but also making sure that people really feel like this is an opportunity for their voices to be heard heard and why their representatives feeling so much and frankly I think we can do a lot better than four seats so yeah fingers crossed and get to work. Everybody is is is that important message. I think also in addition to the gun safety issues people are feeling a similar frustration and urgency around what's happening being at the border and I know that you are recently there. Can you talk a little bit about what you saw and if what you saw changes how you're approaching policies sees yeah racial. I actually went to the northern triangle which is Guatemala El Salvador and Honduras. Those are the three countries where we're seeing the vast majority of uh of of immigrants coming to our border they're coming from Central America and through Mexico and trying to come here to build a better live better better lives for their families and and then at the border I went to mcallen Texas saw one of the largest facilities for processing and and what I saw during the trip to Central America was that there are three driving factors that are pushing pushing people out violence just gang violence and other violence that is on a scale that we really couldn't even imagine eight year olds are getting recruited to gangs and when I say they recruited it's it's coerced. It's you know threats of violence to their families. It's you know saying to an eight year old that if you don't do this we're going to rape your sister like I mean. Can you imagine an eight year old having to process that and and and so it's it's horrible things like that happening. Gender Violence Sexual Violence is just through the roof. from the cartel from you know all all kinds of different factors poverty climate change is played played a big role in this and and Guatemala Honduras. There's there's been just epic drought and one in two Guatemalan kids under the age of five or so malnourished that their their growth has been scented so especially the indigenous people are being pushed out like farming isn't possible in the way that it used to be and so and then third you just have corruption and happening on us on a scale that well frankly i. I would normally say that. We couldn't even imagine you can imagine it now. I'm horrifyingly but but so what I learned about the aid that we're that we've been providing that the White House has that this administration has cut cut off to these countries is I think there's actually a misconception that we're just giving money to these governments and I can understand why if you feel like what we know that these governments corrupt that we that we shouldn't be just giving money to them but the money's not going to the government the the money is going to our own agencies including in some cases. FBI The DA e-eh it's going to to our State Department to USA ID which grants funds to really really reputable Angios nonprofits that are just doing vital work that is that is focused on keeping people from having to migrate in the first place and and that that funding absolutely should not be cut. If we want to stem the flow of migration in fact it should be we should be revealing what works and we should be increasing investments in that regard because we the US has responsibility and needs to take responsibility for some of the interventions that we've that we've done over the decades kids in that have caused destabilization in the region. That's one set of things is we've got to make the effort to keep people. Migrating in the first place and second is is at the border. you know. I didn't see unsanitary conditions. I didn't see people drinking from toilets or anything anything like that and the crowding had actually gone down pretty significantly from what it had been previous weeks. This is because of the because of the summer migration just slows down down in general but also the remain Mexico policies ethically. I don't agree with them but regardless people aren't making it to the to the border in the same way they were so. I didn't see that but what I did see was just that we are treating people who are fleeing out of desperation like criminals and and there's no real soft softer way of defining that I mean eighteen and nineteen year old women who aren't technically minors but they're teenagers who knowing what I learned from the trip to the northern triangle I can guarantee you that they have experienced sexual trauma in a way that we like multiple times levels that you know again don't even occur to us and they're in Acelle behind glass behind you know behind these steel doors and you know as we're going through were as as a group of members of Congress kind of getting the tour. I guess you just see them like. It's like this window here. Were their hands are up and like tears streaming down their face and I mean it's just heartbreaking and you know yes. They broke the law to come here will they. They're going to apply for asylum. I hope but they don't have representation. That's telling them exactly how to a AH 'cause now. Domestic violence is a qualifier for asylum but you know who knows if if if it'll be done right and if they get sent back what what's going to happen to them especially since the aid that was helping to fund the resources that would would help people if they got some back to their home. Country has been cut. I mean it's it's really devastating and then you know families same same kind of thing right. I don't you know yes you can always find examples of of you know horrible situations where kids are being trafficked and try and and criminals are trying to use kids to kind of find loopholes there. I'm I'm sure there are examples of that that has happened not going to deny that but the vast majority of people are really just here because they don't don't feel like they have another option and I think are the fundamental problem with our system is that it does treat people like criminals in that way and I think we need to have have more avenues for legal immigration so that it isn't a matter of of committing a crime to be able to try and come here and you. I hear a lot about like well. They should go through the line. They should do it. The right way. Like everybody else has to is that there is no right. There is no way of doing that now. I mean the waiting list. Doesn't it doesn't exist. There isn't a process that makes it possible for someone to actually come here. quote unquote the right way now especially with the attempts by this administration to stop stopped legal immigration and I saw the trauma that was happening to border patrol agents from from experiencing the same thing day in and day out of literally having you know kids in cages. There's no there's no other way to put it. These are that's the reality of what it is and and they said I had multiple CEPAL of the border. Patrol agents say to me yeah. It's it's. It's really really sad every single day because we know that if you how lucky we are hardy born here because if we were on the other side of the border if we were in one of those countries we would be doing the exact same thing and you know. I don't I feel like it's important for us to not dehumanize the border patrol agents or or people who are trying to do their jobs. They're either. They're again. They're there are bad people or or their cultural cultural problems. I think in certain segments within the agency but overall I think it's a it's a systemic problem that exists within the way that we we think about immigration now and that fundamentally has to shift in the way that it shifts is by shifting attitudes among our elected officials to finally and create comprehensive immigration reform in the way that that truly does reflect our values and if we can't shift those attitudes. I meant shift it by voting. I haven't you'RE NOT GONNA shift there. We were talking earlier about how transparent you are and you engage with people people on social media and I remember seeing I think it was a snap of you running into Pelosi. Oh yeah early on in on the way to DC think it seems like you all just get along so well and you've kind of got this speaker. Pelosi seal of approval and I thought this is so interesting because they think you represent the this new blue wave. It's blue but it's IT'S A. I don't think everybody thought of themselves. As part of the Democratic Party yeah in the way that everybody kind of now is and we all kind of realize that we have to like work together to win again in in twenty twenty so how do this this this traditional traditional. Democrats and the new bluewave work together successfully moving forward yeah. I I agree with you that I think as far as I'm concerned and I again and I don't think that I'm alone in this from Mike from what I know from my freshman colleagues is we went in. We knew that we were coming in as a class of disruptors and that we weren't just running running to flip these seats regular. You know just another Democrat. We were running because we felt like the system as a whole was was messed up and that in large part that's why trump came to power and you know so the fact that so many of us ran saying that we weren't GonNa take corporate money from the very beginning before there was no organized effort. Uh of trying to go around the country and say hey will you you know. Will you say this this was this was organically coming from people deciding to launch their campaigns by saying I I'm not going to be accountable to special interest. I'm going to be accountable to the people I'm running to represent but we came in and because of that energy we as freshmen we signed a letter basically saying that the first thing we wanted to take up was h r one which was you know about transparency and government about. I'm getting big money out of politics and voting rights. I mean it's such an important package. Attack Your historic visa so side did not if we take the Senate and we have a president that is that that's a Democrat the first thing we have to do after twenty twenty is passed. Hr One because as we go into redistricting in Twenty the census happens we go into redistricting yeah twenty twenty two. If we passed hr one that has the redistricting reforms that prevents gerrymandering like we've seen before her then we will. We will not be in the situation again that we were in. I'm leading up to twenty eighteen. It will not be possible. We will actually have representation It's never going to be talking to be perfect but it's it will not be able to be as as misrepresentative as it has been so. Just keep that on everybody's radar yet another reason to go ahead and oh yeah I mean this is why I think it is important to to to get a Senate and a president that are GONNA sign H. R. One is like our first order of business. We absolutely but so so we you know we we came in knowing that we were sort of we were disrupting the status quo and that we were doing things differently and that there was probably going to be a fair amount of resistance to us. We thought that we were going to be butting heads and saying like no. No this is this. This isn't the way that we're okay with doing things. Don't tell us to shut up and be quiet and sit in the corner because it's not gonNA work. You got a whole bunch of stubborn I dunno strong willed people who have the people people behind them across the country but that wasn't the case then I was. I was when people ask me what I'm most surprised by being in Congress or having having been been there now for a chunk of time one of the most frequent answers I give is that we we have a seat at the table that we have our voices matter better and the the leadership and the more senior members really respect the fact that we represent I think in new new wave of politics and a new generation of of people whose voices haven't been heard before and so I think that the tension that we were expecting just hasn't been there in the way that I thought that's not to say that it doesn't exist exist does in some cases and you see that play out with the sort of two sides of the party right and probably the clearest way but part of what I see my tirol as as one of the freshman representatives to leadership is is helping to bridge that divide to and you know I know I understand. I've I've been through the same kinds of challenges that are frontliners faced not even as bad as as those who are in districts that were that were trump won by sixteen points which some some of my colleagues do represent but I also being from California and right next to L. A. and I have the latitude I feel like to be more progressive than then some of my peers from the other forty seats the flipped and serving over say become friends good pretty good friends with you know Rasheeda and Ilhan and Alex Alex and and I oughta and so I I feel like part of my job is to kind of try to to keep our eye on what matters and not on this interparty fighting infighting because at the end of the day we are so so much closer closer on every single thing that matters than the Republican Party and certainly than trump and certainly than Mitch McConnell and that's what we've got to stay focused on because if if we because the media loves to try and focus on these splits and you know every narrative I mean every article that you see year like who made the and you made that up that wasn't even a thing and so we've really got to stay focused on that to anyone. Who's WHO's the impeachment issues one that I know that has that has had people concerned. Just say have some faith. It's going to be okay but the I I don't know just the the device we can't. We can't afford the inter-party divisiveness so well. I want to wrap up with three questions kind of related and these are the big questions Christians one. What's your biggest concern going into twenty twenty into the election which Democrats really be doing more of to do what gives you the most hope for the future and then of course how can we help char so my biggest concern is is is making sure that people though again. It's it's about really really focusing on on empowering people and making sure that that every single person in frankly in any district but also specifically in states. It's that need to flip with. We need to flip. Senate seats in these other districts where I'm. I'm not comfortable with the majority. We've got in in the house. I think our majority needs to be a lot bigger and you have to protect. We have to protect the forty one soon yeah let's hope but with North Carolina coming up in a few to be able to be as bold as possible and as aggressive as possible on dealing with the challenges that I don't think we have an option but to to go after with every single the thing that we've got from healthcare to climate change to gun safety we need that big majority and we need to we need to be aggressively voting people out who don't stand for what we believe believe needs to happen at the Senate level at the house level and of course at the White House so making sure that we are empowering people to vote has to be the number one priority already and making sure that they they are able to exercise their voice in and know that they need to and that we're counting on them and that the country and our future and the future of the world is counting on them so that ties back into to how you all can help I mean that is the way that the army of volunteers that showed up in two thousand eighteen. I'm Ken again and I would say that well. The presidential is is absolutely vital. We can't lose sight of the other part because you know if you're frustrated did that we flipped the house and that was so great but the legislation is dying at the Senate now imagine how frustrated you're going to be if we have a president and a House of Representatives is that are democratically controlled but we still have a senate. That's not GonNa do anything so we have to focus on all three at once and imagine how horrible it would be if you lost the house because as we were so focused on the White House and so we need to the horrible thoughts imagining it right now. I don't like anything in my brain right now. Where there's hope is that you know we saw record turnout in two thousand eighteen truly. I mean double the size of of past midterms terms and especially record turnout among young people people of color so important and those are those are the groups of people who've who've typically not had a voice who have felt like there's no reason for them to vote and in many cases who it's harder to vote that we need to get to show show up more and again but I feel like just from what I'm seeing from young people who have been engaged in our campaign from the high school students that I talked to all the way down the that we've hit a moment where that's going to happen. That's not to say that we can just hope that it happens but I really honestly I believe that we are going to have turn out and young people who are showing this by young people. I mean anybody who is under her baby boomers because nurse yeah well because when you when you look at the way that people vote if you're under fifty you you pretty much overwhelmingly start to vote for. Democrats and that's because I think that the world has changed in such a way that we we've moved on from these really arcade beliefs about equality about that. A gun should have more rights than a woman so. I think that there's the really that focus is something I believe in that gives me hoping that makes me feel like you know this is a pivotal moment with twenty twenty but it's just the beginning it's not the end and ah I will be able to replace everybody in the legislature that is of this old mindset and maybe eventually the the two parties that exists. They're gonNA be the progressives in the Democrats and can you imagine how much we'll be able to get done then so leave that one thought that would be awesome representative. Katie Hill from Ca twenty-five thank you so much for being here talking with us. Thank you happy it'd be here. Thanks for all the work that you do yeah. Thank you to your listeners. If you WANNA support Katie Hill and why wouldn't you go to Katie. HILL FOR CONGRESS DOT COM TOM and we'll also have link up on our page for you to Click and donate and all that good stuff rock thank you. Let's go get fro right so Katie talked a lot about not not only focusing on the presidential election. which is I think a really important point because there are other races and swing laughed has has figured out where we need to focus our energy and they're calling these places super states right? Obviously the presidential is is what most people pay the attention to but as Katie pointed out we have to take back the Senate and and stop all this legislation from getting blocked right mm-hmm. We need four seats to do that so that's doable and also there's a real opportunity for us before the census happens to redraw some of these terribly gerrymandered commander lines so we have local legislatures in gubernatorial races and even a state Supreme Court race that will have a huge impact packed on gerrymandering when you look at those three main things also of course defending our house seats that creates a number of states that have a combination nation of one or all three of those things so that's where we really want to focus. Our Energy Right. Now is registering voters in those super states. There's eleven of them and their states like Texas and Georgia and North Carolina Florida Arizona the Rust Belt Wisconsin Michigan Ohio of course and main think I got them. All go to swing left. Dot Org are superstate strategy is there we WANNA give people strategic focus for their work so so that they know they're making impact yeah. I think that's really smart because even when we went back to the White House next year. We're going to be kicking ourselves if we don't fix this gerrymandering hiring issue yeah and I mean Katie said it so well when she was talking about like if you were frustrated that we won back the house but let we're having trouble getting any legislation through the Senate right imagine how frustrated you'll be when we win the presidency yeah and the house but we still don't don't have the Senate right Mitch McConnell still there. It's blocking every yeah yeah. It's it's so so important so by focusing on these strategic states we are. GonNa make a huge impact. Thanks everybody for joining us today and thank thank you for stepping up and taking action. This is how we win. We win when we all get involved but our work has to start now help introduce more people to this movement subscribe and share this podcast everywhere on social media facebook twitter in stock and use the HASHTAG. How we win. Twenty twenty we want to hear from you to other people that you would like to hear from on the podcast questions that you want answered. You can email us at podcast at swing left dot. Org and be sure to come back next week for the next episode of how we win. See then

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Katie Hill

Two Broads Talking Politics

31:46 min | 5 months ago

Katie Hill

"On this episode of Two broads talking politics, we speak with former congresswoman Katie Hill about her new book, she will rise and her pack her time. Everyone. This is Kelly with two broads talking politics part of the dumb cast family of podcast and I am on today with my co hosts Sophie as Sophie. Hey Kelly and we are very excited a little bit fan girly even to joined today by Katie Hill who is the author of a great new book that will talk about and also the founder of the her time pack. So High Kenny Hello so much for having me I'm excited to be here. Yeah. We are very excited to to have you on so first of all Happy Birthday Thank you. Thank you. It was a good day yesterday. Yes. So Birthday, we've got women's Equality Day. It's a good time here. It is. And we're all ignoring the Republican convention. Gosh. I had two nights of birthday celebration things in. So I was able to fully check out and. Tonight have. Gotten event with the Commonwealth. Club, so I'm keeping myself busy during all of these. These nights just tried to ignore twitter. Excellent. Excellent. So let's start with talking some about the book, and so the book is called she will rise came out a couple of weeks ago and it's fantastic. So it does a little bit about in a way would. You to write the book and sort of the audience that you're trying to reach with. US. Shore. Well, what inspired me? I mean I think probably this point most people who are listening to your podcast. about my. My resignation last year, and the fact that it came after my ex has been had released. Naked pictures of me in conjunction with the right wing media and with my Republican kind of political. Operatives in in the districts that were trying to take me out and so you know a lot of things contributed to the resignation but ultimately, I decided that the best thing for me to do would be to step down and in kind of the aftermath of that you know I felt like it was really important and I said this in my resignation speech I am I am not going to be in the halls of Congress anymore, but I am not giving up the fight and If anything what happened to me made me feel like I needed to up I needed to double down on my efforts, but I didn't know what that would look like yet. So for writing the book, it actually serves a dual purpose in one way it actually helped me really process the you know. Everything the emotional aspects of of everything that had happened and also really just put into a structured concrete plan. How can how I can contribute moving forward and that's really the work of her time. And I kind of take us through on the book tickets through the personal story. My own experiences but how those are really reflective in examples of. These almost universal experiences that women have that show that equality is still a long way off, and here we are a hundred years from the time. We got the right to vote but we we still have a lot of work to do and when you talk about audience I, want it to be abroad since but really you know I, think the people who have the the biggest potential to be impacted are especially younger women so I hope that this gets into the hands of You know Y- goals in in younger women who who can who can learn from it and be really inspired to to to take up the fight. So I gotta say Sophie and I have read a lot of political wear type books. We did a whole series of episodes where we reviewed the books of the Presidential Candidates and Oh nice and this is much more personal and moving. To be fair, they're all running for president so they're trying to be careful. But I I, really like how you were able to sort of combine these these deeply personal emotional moments also practical advice, and that's I think that's a tricky thing to do obscene a Lotta traded to it. What was her to your process in in writing this, figuring out how to weave together anecdotal things things about your family. But also, this very real sort of and this is what we do. Yeah it's a good question I guess. I kind of had an idea in my head about what I wanted to I i. didn't want this just to be a memoir. So people ask me kind of like are you gonNA write a memoir and I'm like I didn't I didn't feel like there was enough of a purpose for me to just talk about myself. I wanted it to translate into something actionable and especially because I felt like that was the promise that I made by stepping down. Was this this has to turn it into something more and and. So as I was as I was outlining the book and for me, you know I was actually an English major. So getting into politics ended up. It was a strange turn of events in the first place but so for me outlining and really kind of getting your your thesis in the point you WanNa get across for each section of the book. Each chapter was a really important part of the of physically paving the way to be able to write everything else out. So it's almost like the the narrative was was a that was much more natural that that kind of wove itself in just by coming out of me, I was trying as I knew the the sort of the chapters that I wanted to hit the experiences that I wanted to touch on. That I thought really contributed to two factors that are keeping us from achieving equality. So when you talk about workplace dynamics or pay equality or inequality and you know our personal safety in domestic violence in those pieces that I I know have touched my own life and that of my family and actually the fact that my my grandmother's story ended up becoming a big part of the book was also unexpected and I think it's it was really it was a it was a great learning experience for me in terms of how to approach writing if I, you know I decide to do this again. Kelly had mentioned in the use started her time. Can you tell us a little bit about her time instead of what the pack does assure dates and endorses? Yes. So when I stepped down I, had a about a million dollars in my reelection campaign fund and I had a choice to either just leave it there. In case I decide to run for something down the road or I could turn it into a to what I did, which is political. Action Committee, and by doing that basically, it converts all the money to resources that we can spend directly giving to candidates or on behalf of candidates at to to help them get elected in the mission for her time is to elect more women specifically young women and women of Color into offices. All Levels primarily focused on the congressional races, but we've also expanded it now to state legislative races it wide races isn't even some local races that are. We know we can have a bigger impact on because if you read the books and it all comes down to, we've got all these different policies that we can enact in that Evidence based in have have broad support but if we don't have the right people in power meaning if we don't have equal representation. By, women four women than were not going to be able to get these done. So it's it's all about translating the the kind of ideas in the book into into action. See you mentioned. I mentioned I don't know somebody mentioned. Top that we're I I years out from women getting the right to vote now, and you talk some in your book about Susan B. Anthony and struggles of the that she went through and actually being arrested for for voting and you know just recently, of course, trump decided to pardon Susan B. Anthony and it was pretty clear from reading what you wrote that that that's ridiculous that soupy that he would never wanted to have been pardoned for this a bit. Can you talk a little bit about her her story and it's clear that you feel some? Affinity for some of these sort of early warrior women in American Politics Yeah I mean the thing that I think a lot of people might not even really remember because we we aren't taught a lot about this. There may be a day if that of or chapter of women of the Women's suffrage movement. As you're growing up in, you know in history class or whatever. I don't honestly remember learning much about it in school. So when I, when I have been for the research but also just kind of as having like a hero or or or women figures to look up to as when I was younger the there there are only so many that you hear about about like Joan of ARC and. And You know people like Susan, B. Anthony that you've you've peripherally learned about end. So as I as I wanted to learn more about her I learned that these you know she fought is she in her peers fought for this right to vote and they died before it even happened so. You know they had to make these really incredible sacrifices to to even get us further and further. To Get closer to that you know such a basic right in one of the stories that I really focused on in the book is how she she in several of her. Her peers were actually arrested by they. They successfully registered to vote, but she was she was pretty fierce in she kind of scared these young men who were serving his election officials into allowing her to register under the basically making the argument that the constitution already provided for all. For All people all citizens to have the right to vote. So they allowed her to register, and then she actually voted and then two weeks later she was arrested and tried in the trial was a total mess in the judge basically didn't even allow the jurors to make the decision they he the judge force them to it, and just outright said that the jury. Must find her guilty and I think it's just a her her response in that moment was one that I kind of really went into the details around because it was just so powerful and it out was why when trump pardoned her so it was so clear she wanted to be a martyr is not quite the right word she wanted to make a point that. This is a fundamental injustice that she that women would be held a held as criminals for executing a basic citizens right in our our democracy, and so when were you know as we're as we're kind of moving forward in this and recognizing the sacrifices that were made into the fight that was that was that was undertaken by these women than pardoning her. is almost in a way it's acknowledging that or sort of saying that it was a criminal act ever which she flatly rejected and it's also saying that she you know it it takes the way the fact that she was defiant in that act so I wrote bad about it too. Once he did it and I think that it's a it's a pretty important kind of. A reflection of how trump is just totally clueless in an likes to take symbols and an e use them for political purposes in regardless of their actual intent. Is that in several places in an unbelievable. So in your book that you don't want other young women to be dissuaded by your experience of having. Had to step down and having had your personal life used against you in the media and you've started as pack to start encouraging women to run for office. But then I'm thinking like, how do we? Seems to be a tension between wanting to encourage women to run for office, and then what they're actually seeing I, remember I read an interview with you in fortune where you talked about feeling like a freedom now that you're not in office to say to say what to be straight about what is going on in your life and I'm wondering sort of how we negotiate that tension. How can we? Encourage. Other younger women to run for office when they see what happens to women who actually attain that power when they see sort of the the damage that gets done to them. Yeah. Well, the the the argument I make throughout the book and and when I talked to him in who are considering running or who are running now. Is that you are already a warrior in the fight for Women's equality whether you whether you want to be or not whether you think you are not. You already are because we're facing these these struggles every single day one in three women is. Statistically, going to be sexually assaulted throughout her lifetime. The statistics around domestic violence are insane and it's you know it's something that we that we really have to. Have to address on a fundamental level of the pay. Equality Pieces is impacting women and families to the point where. Really in a lot of ways considered second-class citizens still. When lip service is paid to the fact that we have a quality, but it's just not true when it comes down to action and and the way that things are implemented. So. My my argument is that you're you're already experiencing damages that are being done by us not having quality not having equal representation, and so you are. You're brave you are a warrior by stepping up and saying you're willing to run and you have know that you're you know these kinds of things can happen but I guess the sort of lesson from what I from what happened to me, and also what I think. You know I'm hoping by vice standing back up and saying, no, this isn't something that can take me down permanently is that the next time something similar goes down with a with another woman enough as that she doesn't feel the need to resign. East feels like she's got the support and the you know the the the kind of I don't know moral highground to say, no, I'm a I'm a human I make mistakes also this I was a victim of something. I was not this isn't my My own failing right. So I think it is challenging, right? It's it's incredibly difficult for us to to expect women to to kind of undergo the public scrutiny and the you know the just the the crap that they have to deal with when they're running for officer elected to office. But we need them to and it's a it's a it's a true public service and it's a fight that has to be that really has to be fought. In have been thinking a lot about how. These things happen in politics rate the personal scandals things come up and and so often especially sort of in the me too moment we're sort of looking at these men making have apologies and saying, why can't they do better what you know and then other people saying we'll what would true accountability look like what what sort of response would we be happy with and yet here you experience this thing where you were also a victim at the same time and yet did give this wonderful gracious response and you know. I'm sort of in this moment where things like the Jerry Falwell situation are happening and Aaron Coleman and we're seeing then again, get call now and not be able to respond like wait what is it gonNA take to get true accountability from male politicians who are going through candles like how how do we fix double standard that exists that clearly exist. The only thing that I can think of is the we really have to hold meant to the same standard and and part of why I decided to step down a big part of why I decided to step down as that, I did not want to be considered a hypocrite and. I didn't want to be the person who was you know kind of forcing us a S as Democrats progressives. Or even us as women to say, well, it doesn't apply these things that were asking for don't apply in this case in you know I, I talk about in the book and I've talked about in interviews the why? Why I think my situation y you know I think that it's it's part of a gray area and and how I do acknowledge my responsibility in the matter but how you know I think. There's a pretty big difference between like Harvey, Weinstein Situation and and you know what? What happened in mind but I think that I I still wanted to set an example of saying you I did I did something wrong by engaging in this power dynamic and I'm sorry for it and I I wanted to show that you can. You can accept that responsibility but you also it doesn't mean that you have to. Be, benched I. Guess Forever if you take the responsibility you try to, you try to make amends for it by doing something positive, which is what which attempting to do with the pack. So my you know I think what we have to do for men is individuals Aaron, Coleman. I, wrote I wrote an op Ed recently in the daily beast because. We see these progressive men who were defending him as opposed to saying that he picked the same kind of accountability and there's this total There is this total double standard in I. Don't know how much of it is because he's a man or how much it is because he had this this particularly progressive agenda that he was running on Bernie Sanders Bro kind of thing. But I think it's incredibly important that we continue to call that out his at as women in particular we don't stand for it. We see that misogyny and this kind of. Behavior is something that we're not going to accept from within our own party in. It's not something that we're going to condone, and we do not expect the men who call themselves allies to do that either. But you know also we can recognize that there's a gray area. We can recognize that people make mistakes in their past in and if they apologize if they own it if they take the responsibility in there and they're trying to do better with it than you know we should we should reflect on what we think is, can they can they contribute? Politics or otherwise than I hope that the answer is ultimately yes. But if they won't even take that responsibility if they try to brush off if they try to say that you know well, like I mean Aaron. Coleman he's nineteen years old at first. It was it we just learned. Today or yesterday that he had. He had much more recent in horrible instance of violently attacking his ex girlfriend just within the last year. But before that he it was he was hit. Bullied and Committed cyber exploitation against several young girls when he was fourteen years old, that's five years ago and he didn't serve any kind of he didn't really have any consequences for it and he didn't. He said that he you know he was sorry for what he did but he didn't he really truly never took the accountability for never Five years is simply not much time to have passed and and sure enough we found out that his behavior continued. So I think that those these are these tough conversations that we're going to be having you know out and we we should be having as we're as we're changing society. You know we bought some people. Men in particular have you know have committed these acts that are that were tolerated by society for so long and are not anymore so you know if they're changing their behavior now what we do with what they did in the past. Yeah I think it's just so a it. It struck me every time it came up in the book that you're like, yeah I also did something wrong you know and and just so straight-forward acknowledging is so powerful and meaningful. Is Done. So little. By the the men in these positions right? I mean like that's that's the part that just kind of blows my mind is it's like you you can be wrong. You know you can. You can say that I I screwed up and I'm sorry and I want to make things better and I don't I don't know if that's If that's a masculine ego. Thinking that makes it so much more difficult for men but I think it it must be at least partially or it might be because we have just let them get away with it for so long or or you know that society not we as women but just society as a whole has has not expected. Them has not expecting good behavior manner has not expected apologies or has allowed them to to kind of brush it off as like in the same way that we've had this boys will be boys mentality for for Kids I. Think we've had these men will be men you you almost expect cheat and. End To do these these things that are when women do something similar are. Considered important and You know sort of give you a scarlet letter. And I think that's missing. So often from the discussion, especially on the right wing of quote canceled culture this idea of own. But what's what's you know what people make a mistake or you're gonNA cancel them for it I feel like what is often missed that the cancellation is In my experience, usually because the person refuses to take responsibility for what they did in the past or lies about what they did in the past or. Victim blames for what they did in the past I feel like that is a nuance that is often overlooked in in discussion cancel with. I agree and I think about yeah and and it's Har-. It's not easy for us to kind of decide when somebody commits a forgivable act or how you know how you're supposed to take responsibility and even I ask these questions in the book like. I know that people there are some people who who are rightfully. So still upset with me even though I did resign who you know who wants some kind of who more accountability or responsibility and and and I ask and I genuinely mean this, what can I do but I don't I know that I shouldn't be putting the responsibility on anyone else to to try and figure out what the what the right thing to do. But I think it's a question we should be asking ourselves because it's certainly one that I'm asking myself and and I guess the only answer I've come up with is to to try to the to do something positive with it. Knowing, that my my resignation has had a has had an impact on people in a you know and and certainly on myself it was it was something that I you know I have course didn't want to resign, but it also had reverberating impacts. We lost that seat that I flipped I hope we get back in November but so I feel a great deal of responsibility for so many things and I I think that the only way I can live with myself is by. Trying to divert it into my energy into something positive. You talk a lot about how it would be great if women not just had as sort of equal representation at this point, but actually, it just were in charge of everything for a while which I completely agree with. You know and. And, we're not there. We're not going to get there but we we at least now have a a woman as vice president candidates from your from your own State and California how do we talk about the though the that that women should be in charge of more people are always throwing back though so that's identity politics know how how do we frame this messaging in a way to to make it clear that that look no we we should be putting women in charge because they have had different experiences and and that's not just identity politics whatever that Y- yeah. Yeah well, I think that that's That's sort of been defy. In. The way that I've been talking about it is that like I'm of the the whole concept of you know, you shouldn't vote for a woman because she's a woman or. You know you don't want to vote for somebody just because of their identity of course, it's not just because of that. But my point is that if a woman has reached the level that you know of running for office of being considered a serious candidate of you know of whatever she's had to accomplish in our life to get to that point then she's probably more qualified than the guys that she's running against anyway. Just because of the double standards that we've had to face our entire through are throughout our entire existence, and so I like to stay that we should vote for women because they're women and that we shouldn't shy away from that because it is it does bring a diversity of experience and a different way of governing and you know a different. Way of collaborating and of leading and it it has we need to to aggressively make strides in trying to turn over who holds the power forever going to get to fifty percent. If we're ever going to even get to parody than were we, we're going to have to do it with intentionally and I'm even asking allies men who our allies instead of. Insisting on being the candidate yourself can you support a woman? Who is can you? You know if you're if you're this guy who's wanted to be in politics forever what about your wife like she could? She be better at this than you and I think that there's a there's a real and by the way I'm saying this because I several of the men that I that I was in Congress with like I got to their wives to and I'm like you guys would be so much better than your husband's sometimes they are behind the scenes but I just wish that they. That they were the ones who are in front you I think I think about Gavin newsom in. I. I don't get me wrong. He's he's my governor I. Love Him but his wife Jennifer symbolism is just incredible and I'm like I just wish. She was. He was the first man and she was the she was the principal. But you know, I think that that's a that's really the messing around. It should be that look this is an identity politics. This is we are half of the population and we all want is equal representation. We just want half of you know we're not. We're not saying that men should be gone. We're not saying that they they shouldn't have a say at all but we're saying that you've had the say for thousands of years and it's it's time for us clearly, it's not working. It's time for us to have a little bit of a change in the evidence. The research backs it up that you know women in leadership positions or when you have a a a large enough percentage of women in. Governance. In different kinds of legislative bodies, it makes a true impact women send more money back to their districts. They they a they've done better. This was just published that that the response to covid has been better in their led by women and you know the the. Situation after situation like that. Which I detail in the book. All right. So speaking of the book, How do our listeners get the puck short? So you can go to she will rise book Dot Com, and it gives you all the different places that you can buy it with the Audio e book with got print Format that's it I feel like that's all the site. The. It gives you all the different vendors that you can buy it from and You know obviously it's on it's on all the big ones Amazon included and I. If. People want. to follow the pack, shoot a really important one, and that's her dash time dot com and we'll put links to those on our website as well. I. Love that you did the Audio Book Yourself I am a big fan of audio books because I can do things like workout at the same time and you know you those. MOMS do. So. I. I love audiobooks anyway I think you know having it in your own voice makes it even that much more meaningful. So I'm really glad that you did audiobook yourself. Yeah that was an interesting experience to yeah I'm glad that I did it as well. Are you still in in touch with your friends from Congress I knew you were roommates with Lauren Underwood who's been a longtime friend of the PODCAST. Oh definitely. Yeah I'm I'm in touch with with a lot of them and I live primarily in DC still so I can still is the right word end so when they were coming back a lot. I was getting together with them and I got to with descaling a bit better with Cova Than California is a lot better than California as into we. You know we had dinner outside and things like that. So it's you know they're still Serving in the trenches of some kind when you know it's very difficult to kind of explain what that's what it's like to serve if you if you haven't been in there and so there's just something nice about you know that can rotary and You know we we did even though it was a short time we became close friends. So grateful for that. Well, I I. Still Remember where I was when I heard that you were resigning. You know I know some people are like they remember where they were when JFK was killed or something I remember where I was here and you were resigning. Only I. Understand respect the decision that you made and I am so thrilled that you wrote this book like I said, it's just really really incredible and so thank you for being with with us today and thank you for using the voice that you have i. saw you tweeted the other day. That's your. Friends in Congress say you speak so much more now? That you're out. I'm glad you're using that for good. A little less restricted. Thank you. Thank you I appreciate it. You gotta take the perks where they come one of them is sleeping in. Her is. Is being able to say whatever you want. While Katie thank you so much. Thank you. We will put links to to the book the pack up on our website. So I hope everyone will check that out and everyone who chose to listen to this instead of watching the RNC convention. Very good choice. Absolutely. They so much for having me. Thank you for listening to two bras talking politics part of the dim cast podcast network. Our theme song is called. Are you listening off of the album elephant shaped trees by the Band Immune Nouri and we're using it with permission of the band our logo and other original artwork is by matthew wetland and was created for use. By this podcast. You can contact us at two broads talking politics at g mail, DOT COM, or on twitter or facebook. At to talk you can find all of our episodes at two broads talking politics, dot com, or anywhere podcast found.

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Full Episode: Tuesday, October 29, 2019

Nightline

17:09 min | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Tuesday, October 29, 2019

"Good evening thanks for joining US tonight. One former lawmaker now waging a new campaign Katie Hills finding herself in the center of a scandal after leaked intimate photos and allegations of an affair with question. Have you seen this man listen on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP indited for misusing campaign funds to support extramarital affairs with five women has so far refused to step down the difference between Duncan Hunter and Katie Hill the district hunter said in a statement to the Associated Press that the indictment was politically motivated the beginning it remains politically motivated now I will not allow myself committee particularly in this impeachment inquiry openly bisexual congresswoman garnered the support of her constituents and select estranged husband she has accused her husband of being abusive and of running a quote smear campaign against her by leaking nude photos of her with this campaign staffer held accountable California Representative Katie Hill a rising star in the Democratic Party now tarnished resigning in the face of what hill calls a camp abusive husband and the brutality of hateful political operatives intimate photo showing hill with female campaign staffer were published on the Daily Mail and the conservative wing media and Republican opponents enabling and perpetuating my husband's abuse by providing him a platform is disgusting and unforgivable and they will democratic women that came into office in two thousand eighteen she also had the position of Vice Chair of the House Oversight Committee which is a really important congress I think that her constituents were probably not okay with behavior Congresswoman Hill was facing a house ethics committee investigation over allegations the question now is whether a Democrat can hold onto that seat hills defenders claim there is a sexist standard pointing out that Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter who has been she had this sexual relationship red-state also alleged that hill had been involved in a second extramarital affair with her current legislative director which would violate pain of revenge porn I made this decision so that my supporters my family my staff and our community will no longer be subjected to the pain inflicted by blog red state alleging that hill her husband Kenny Heslop and the staffer were involved as a ruffle the photos were published amidst divorce proceedings between hill and was that Katie Hill doesn't have a father who was a well known well respected member of Congress who seat that she took over and whose name recognition is extremely high and popular Sir long sought after California district hadn't elected a Democrat to Congress and more than thirty years now it's time to get back to work because you see what's happening in Washington before to be a distraction from the constitutional crisis we're faced with and the critical work of my colleagues and so I have to take my personal fight outside the halls of Congress the House Ethics Rules Hill has denied those allegations. I think she's being treated fairly in that. Her behavior was unbecoming of a member Birdie's alike Katie has been an advocate for people her whole career but her once promising career now derailed amidst of failing marriage and the LURID she defeated incumbent Steve Knight Katie Hill was part of the blue wave that delivered Democrats the house in the last midterm election she flipped a Republican held seat in California musicians. I never claimed to be perfect but I never thought my imperfections would be weaponized in us to try to destroy me and the community I've loved for my entire Life Hill says as an ex congressman she's dedicating herself to fighting revenge porn on behalf of countless others it remains unclear as to who leaked the first term Democrat hill was a member of the big six six the most promising new freshmen in Congress she was part of the year of the woman the wave of what does to the media hills husband's attorney did not respond to requests for comment some people call this electric assault digital exploitation others call it revenge that she had a sexual relationship with a member of congressional staff now that is a violation of the house rules hills ousting serves as a major blow to her party important as the victim of it I call it one of the worst things that we can do to our sisters our daughters because she lost her career as a congresswoman had to resign basis how explosively revenge porn cases are growing when I first started five years ago we would get one telephone call every three months now we got a telephone call a day these images she has a case against whoever actually showed these images what the press attorney Daniel Salka wits specializes in revenge porn cases give me a sense of life we've caught police officers we've caught members of the armed forces we've caught members of their local community churches so this is a crime that everyday people unfortunately pedantic of revenge porn cases now and more often than not these victims are women they are Zaka would says he's tracked down offenders from all walks of life the criminals but he says a national law would help revenge porn survivors who often face an uphill legal battle in part because laws against it very birds hill is far from the only alleged victim of revenge porn in recent years the digital smears and trapping celebrities and everyday citizens alike dramatically from state to state the promise of this area of law is so new and the statutes really haven't been flushed out the way they should so congresswoman as long legal odyssey paved the way for survivors seeking justice at just eighteen years old crissy says her ex boyfriend's secretly taped himself having sex does from California which has a very strong revenge porn statute going into Washington DC where she was also very strong revenge porn statute but unfortunately a lot of states are not as strong as those clicked on this video and realized that I've been assaulted perhaps no one knows the challenges facing revenge porn victims better than Youtube Star Chrissy Chambers who's us we ten million Americans about one in twenty five have been threatened or have been the victim of revenge port I saw these links and then down Christie says she didn't even know she was being filmed at the time and only found out about the tape from disturbing messages left by her own followers at the time ABC news made repeated attempts to reach out to her alleged defender but never heard back it was single handedly probably one of the hardest moments of my life with her while she was passed out drunk before allegedly releasing the video in twenty thirteen it was just a horrific pain my world came crashing enjoy me on the next ride early just collapsed on the floor crissy's road to justice was difficult since the video was posted in the UK before revenge porn laws on the books there she was unable to enough and it's ruining people's lives I'm going to fight and continue to fight to of course not let it run despite the setback Chris the eventually won a landmark civil case against her offender the first of its kind in the U K you can sue you can make sure that something happens to the person that's done losing to roll longtime partner on the courthouse steps but for Congresswoman Hill her future remains to be seen I grew up riding horses and the pursue criminal charges it was like stumbling in the dark but they would say you know I'll I'm so sorry that this happened to you but we can't help her journey you may not remember sixteen year old Falcon Heaney but you'll certainly remember his unusual story most important thing that I learned was that when you fall off you have to get right back up in the saddle so I'm going to do that I hope I can count on you to do the same nation after claims that a child was on board but he was not balloon boy living on speaking out with his parents about the incident that captivated the nation it was a scary sight to behold a homemade silver saucer drifting across the sky ten years ago the country gripped in fear and fascinate this year we unfortunately a lot of phone calls from people that believe that there's nothing they can do at this point especially younger people that's not true Christie celebrated her victory by After the fact I mean it just never dawned on me Falcon appears and you know I I didn't know say that this kid is going to be okay it's been a safe landing but as it turned out falcon was never in the balloon to begin with instead. TV's watching as this giant balloon drifted across the Colorado Sky but search is underway for a six year old boy who may or may not just moments after she gave her police report Chrissy spoke to the Guardian it was grueling what they have now is not enough as just not in his life seemingly was in danger his father Richard and inventor who built a balloon himself surely you know this was not just some little story that was going to go away you know that right afterward you know meticulously documented on her and her partners Youtube Channel Bria and Chrissy I was a victim of revenge can going through for two years now have climbed into a homemade helium balloon it captivated cable audiences with wall to wall coverage the incident and apparent emergency relation over whether the whole thing was an act authorities began calling it a hoax at the time saying he needs who had reportedly been shopping a reality it's like Falcon says he doesn't remember much about the incident that earned him that dig name but his dad Richard certainly does he'd been hiding in the attic at home later that evening that he needs talked to CNN and when Falcon was asked why he hid the little boy said this show and had already been on ABC's wife swap staged the stunt to gain fame Richard and his wife Miami insisted it was not staged the ground it dropped into feel some fifty miles from the heaney's home rescuers scrambled to find the boy in the balloon while viewers held their breath verdict after nearly two hours that flying saucer started losing its lift five four three they're trying to grab a balloon on the ground he just a hoax and says he was a victim of character assassination and how after you stack all that stuff throw in the interview that was on CNN Wolf Blitzer actually we didn't have a TV hooked up so I had no idea what was going on a flying saucer ten years ago millions were glued to the Sir seen here in this home video just moments before that nine one one call the Colorado National Guard was put on alert helicopters at the ready flights around the area were they forty show I mean we did this for the show I had no idea that interview sparked spectrum yeah but eventually pled guilty to related charges and served a minimal jail time did initially confess but she says point but it's so biased okay the media continues on with the same narrative and all these years later do you feel a sense guided joyride balloon boy anybody ever throw that at you these days yeah would you laugh about it happens a lot yeah what's your reaction to it only out of fear Miami did you actually think you could lose your kids and all this you thought somebody would actually take away from you closet very positive because I closed off our family to the outside world and said you know we're going to go to home schooling steal that you need to clear your name Oh most definitely still ten years later yeah Oh yeah was it still so important to you I've lost many opportunities I've lost a lot of opportunities Susana turn to Colorado and that balloon flight that has garnered so much attention authorities track that alone for two hours fairing that six year old was inside on a mission finally tonight he's the father of the bride with a lot they're heavy metal talents on display in his twenty fourteen music video for a song aptly titled No Hoax we don't really WANNA associate ourselves it's my side of the story he says the incident has been a learning experience for his family houses impacted you will oh man it's had a very positive effect performing and it's a real passion with them so if any opportunities come out at Pike I hope for them for nightline TJ homes in Archer Florida. I WANNA see my husband or kid I won't be able to soon so it'll contact me by invented and the deal went south and because they find out who I am and the thing that gets me is the media never the staff members surfaced heels departure now shining a light on what she calls revenge porn this coordinated campaign carried out by the the language of love that's nightline you can always catch her full episodes on Hulu thanks for staying with us good night America join me and the ABC News Investigative Unit as we search for Leicester Eubanks we embed with the authorities were tracking the killer and ask the is a murderer who's been on the loose for over four decades and authorities are running out of time to catch him I'm Sunny Heston from ABC News Her Dad Mitch could only gripe back on a whiteboard but now as he gave away his little girl no words were necessary WanNa go do activities together and I'm going to be the guy to spend time with them in sounds like you're saying this incident actually made you all a tighter knit family yes we're definitely throw all that together with a background you have why won't why wouldn't people soon other hit piece this is another piece which I anticipate here yeah what is day after bad accident a couple of years ago the bride Alley ki-mun wasn't able to speak and she communicated through sign language it family since the incident the Heaney boys have started a band so as I hope family together young the family now lives in Florida Richard still maintains that it returning a reality show any opportunity would you rather get out of the spotlight at this point given what the spotlight is done too yeah I don't want to be in the spotlight okay now with you we'll lighten my face because of this people need to know this this truth but now my my boys they loved playing music they love and the bride's tears of joy no news please lack of new foods in and get to dance and then DAB learning to sign the song I loved her first by heartland with that rock out you have any current TV or reality show opportunities in the works no do you would you take Sounding Frantic on this nine one one call in that yeah we we looked everywhere in

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Ronan Farrows on the Line

Slate's Double X Gabfest

1:11:22 hr | 1 year ago

Ronan Farrows on the Line

"The following podcast contains explicit language. Hello and welcome to the waves for Thursday November seventh in the Ronan. Farrow is on the line edition. I'm Christina Ricci. Staff writer at sleet and host of the fleet podcast outward. I'm June Thomas Senior managing producer of slight podcast. I'm Nicole Perkins writer and Co Host First Aid Kit. I'm Marsha Charleena professor of history at Georgetown University before we get into our topics. I WANNA collect two who of our listeners. Who wrote in about the segment we did on our last episode about Mixed Politics Couples Both of the listeners were gay and pointed without that we did not talk about gay relationships in our episode Mea Culpa totally should have brought that up but both of the people who wrote in where in their own mixed politics politics relationships One is Paul. He writes that he and Rik. These are pseudonyms by the way Have Been Together for eight years. The seemed like they were politically aligned when they first got together But Rick got what he calls. Red pilled in two thousand sixteen as trump was campaigning. Paul says that you know we sort of drew a line in our segment between people who were always sort of trump's supporters his And people whose politics changed because of trump Paul says that Rick was a case of somebody who truly had a political conversion because trump hit all the right notes Paul says they're still together even though they have intense arguments every now and then but they end up falling back on what Paul calls the only resolution possible. We have to agree to disagree on this because they fit so well together. They fill such vital roles for each other that a huge political gold disagreement just kind of pales in comparison. Thank you so much. Paul for rating in that was a very interesting perspective. And I'm glad to know that we have some a mixed politics couples among our listeners. Okay our topics this week. We are going to start with Katie Hill the congresswoman from California who had David One of her campaign. Staffers and she resigned last week after a couple right wing news outlets published a series of naked photos of her for a second topic topic. We're going to review Mrs Fletcher new. Hbo Series Starring. Kathryn Hahn as a single and divorced woman whose son goes off to college giving her room to explore her Own Sexuality and finally were interviewing Ronan Farrow who's reporting on Harvey Weinstein's long history of alleged rape and sexual harassment formed formed the basis of his new book. Catch and kill. That's going to be a great conversation And Marsha what is our sleep plus segment this week. Our slate plus segment segment this week asks. Is it sexist. That Delta Airlines cut out a same sex love scene as well as the word word lesbian when it showed the film book smart on. Its flights if you're not asleep plus member yet and you want to know whether that was sexist assist you can and should start your free two week. Trial of sleet plus by visiting sleep dot com slash the waves plus all right onto the show Katie Hill. She was a new member of Congress. She flipped her l.. A. Area district from red to blue in the two thousand eighteen election and she resigned last. Thursday Nicole tells what happened or representative. Katie Hill is a bisexual first term Democrat congresswoman in California as you just mentioned. She resigned after acusations surface that she'd been having Inappropriate relationships with a campaign staffer who is a woman and a congressional staffer who was a man Dan. She admitted to the relationship with the campaign staffer but denied the relationship with her legislative director. Graham Kelly You know as the situation unfolds and more the details come to light it becomes much more. Complicated Hill felt compelled to resign after intimate pictures of her the campaign staffer and her husband. Kenny has slept together other were leaked to a conservative pro-trump websites named red-state Hill. And her husband are in the midst of a divorce and she believes he leaked the images as revenge porn born in order to humiliate her to complicate matters. Further hill accuses her husband being abusive and leak tax between the campaign staffer hill and her husband has been appear to accuse hill being abusive to the campaign aide. There's so much here. There's BI phobia intimate partner abuse accusations. Revenge Inge Porn and workplace misconduct. That seems to be Creating a just a stew for the headlines and It's a lot. We should also note that there are these new rules in Congress that it is forbidden to have a relationship with a staffer in and the relationship with the campaign campaign. Staffer is Is Not completely outlawed Not by these house rules but that was kind of the reason that a lot of that. She's there still is going to be inquiry like it felt that maybe it's strong to say that it's the reason but it's certainly like part of the factor like even though. She denies that there was relationship with a staffer the relationship that would have been illegal. It feels that kind of that was to me. That feels like It's a factor. At least it's not why she resigned aimed but it's A lot of the commentary has said. Oh she's the first person who's had to resign because of these rules. I don't think that's entirely accurate. But it's kind of a factor turn what's going on. Yeah and the with the the relationship that she did admit to and that the photographs concerned the relationship with the campaign staffer. That's a little real complicated to we're trying to think about you know whether there was an ethical violation there because their relationship began before that woman was Working on hills campaign so it's it's not quite like. She began a relationship with her employees. It was she hired someone she was dating eating like. This is a big gross mess and I think one of my first thoughts is the way we need to look at Relationships amongst people who work together whether you know when they're consensual because in the workplace where together eight to ten hours is a day or longer. We're spending forty to sixty hours a week together. It seems kind of impossible to ask people not too close to one another and not to form perhaps intimate admit relationships but again this situation is obviously different because of the nature of the relationships between a hill and the campaign aide and you know don't and which brings in the husband and divorced and all this stuff so life first reaction to this story is your ex. There's so much going going on here and one of the things I think we lose sight of in talking about this sometimes. Is that this situation is it's the manifestation of the extreme panic of the culture of. It'll all come back to get you and so while I think there is a place for serious accountability and reflection. What does it mean than to People who want to run for office office. You know that someone like Nancy Pelosi says see this is why you can't do x Y and Z and the problem with this situation if it was just what about the pictures that were released as revenge porn. I think it allows us for Some conversation about you know what does it mean for things that happened in intimate relationship to be weaponized but then the workplace misconduct thing is a separate issue. But they're all under the same giant tent so this is a really hard conversation to have but all of this makes me think of If you remember a few years ago there was a young young woman who wanted to run for Congress named Crystal Ball and she later became an MSNBC news correspondent but part of the reason why she had to drop out of the race where some pictures were released of her doing some silly stuff. I think at a holiday party and the way that she kind of became came the face of the cautionary tale about securing your future As a young person interested in these issues I think we're not around that corner yet of thinking about the ways. That behavior is policed for the future and not for the present and so I think the thing about the photographs is touching on a larger conversation. That might get a little bit better. But I don't think we've really kind of squared how we understand The fact that a lot of young people do have pictures of themselves in and you know states of undress. And what can this mean for the future at sleep. We've been having some pretty heated Slack discussions about this specifically about the Questions of journalistic ethics and whether it was right for red state which not quite sure you could call that a journalistic outlet but especially because the piece that you know publish. The nude photos was written by an operative For the guy who hill ousted from Congress. So there seems seems to be a conflict of interest. There probably should have chosen someone else right that post but anyway We've been talking about whether it was in the public interest for these photos to come out And you know I did a little Straw poll yesterday so I already know what June thinks about this but I'd say we were pretty evenly split among us at slate between people who who thought that the photos should not have been published at all and people who thought that some of the photos were in the public interest because they were necessary to prove. You've that hill was having an unethical relationship. I most people drew a distinction between the photos published by Red State which you know showed a hill naked brushing the campaign compaign staffers hair and the photos published by the Daily Mail which were included a lot of nude photos of her. That did not add any information to this claim of abuse of power But you know I- questions like do we need to see those photos to have evidence of or know that there is an unethical relationship going on and some people were saying like readers. Don't believe you if you just described photos. They need to actually see the photos. I'm not sure I believe that I don't think that we needed to see the this revenge porn to understand that she was in a relationship with her campaign staffer and not knowing anything about dread states report oriole process. I wonder if hill might have admitted to the relationship if she were confronted with the photos and if the photos were described to her and if she was asked asked pointblank about the relationship I also don't think the photos show abuse. No one has alleged abuse the tax ex that you referred to Nicole. The only person who's saying abuse there is hills husband who you know she says is abusive and is releasing all this information Got To try to humiliate her and ruin her career You know it. It seemed to me reading those texts that he was trying to seed that idea in the campaign. Staffers head like Oh Katie's abuse like what about that you know and she was like you know talking about. Yeah I feel extremely terrible. She's like isolated me. Because I was in politics. This was my job now like I. It hurts me every time I think about her but no one has said that that there was abuse going on so I feel like there needs to be a greater threshold of harm to warrant the publication of nude photos. Like I think that the damage done by publishing these photos with far greater than whatever whatever ethical violation Katie hill committed by hiring someone. She was dating which like. I actually do think that probably was worth resigning from Congress. I think that is an ethical legal violation. I don't think that says anything good about that person's capacity to lead in an ethical manner But the I I think that whatever sort of Ethical breach she committed Pales in comparison to the violation. That was committed by showing knowing these nude photos of her. We'll do you guys think she should have resigned. I kind of do think so. The like you said hiring someone on that you're already in a relationship I mean that's very murky And to continue the relationship and then what I don't know if it AH ended and that's part of the mess as well but Yeah I think she should have resigned. I think it would've been too much of a distraction as people try to get to the the heart of the matter. The real like truth of everything. My concern is if it had been a congressman whose nude pictures had leaked. Would you know. Would we have more care about them being leaked and shared and published in various New Sites and I I I think yes I. I think I I'm thinking about Anthony Weiner and his pictures that Yes they were league but it was also just kind of swept away very quickly as people delve more into the details of his Affairs and and all of that so I. I'm just wondering if you know if this had been a man. Would we have so much access to his pictures as we do. For for K- deals I think you're you're right. I don't know if male nudity pictures would be shared but I have a kind of Meta question about nudes that exposes exposes a lot The pictures that were taken were in the context within a relationship and there are a number of people who have Nude pictures of themselves that are shared in the process of establishing rapport or establishing relationship with someone. Someone if there was no if this was the only scandal were just the photographs. Do you think she would have been able to survive that and keep per position I think no because she I think she's saying that she resigned to make it stop because she was so humiliated and probably didn't want more photos to come. Come out I I have seen accounts of you know. There's hundreds of photos out there that have been sent to Republican operatives. You know across Congress and the media and I think she resigned to prevent outlets like the Daily Mail from publishing anymore photos. I don't think that the ethical violation of you know hiring Somebody that she was dating was part of it at all because it wasn't actually against the code of conduct that fourth in Congress I mean I guess it's possible that she's lying about the alleged relationship with her legislative staffer and she didn't want that inquiry to continue but I think she would have resigned anyway even if it was just the photos because because it's like the amount of power granted to the person who released these because outlets were willing to publish them is is far greater than whatever power she has just by staying in office right. I think the word extortion was tossed around but again it's hard to find you know the threat to pull to find the root of it But to go back to What's going to happen when people who have come come up in the age of social media who've come up in the age of over sharing start to get into these political wants to run for political office or even want to get into into executive roles in their jobs? What does it mean when these images are there tweets? Are you know they're blog posts if people are still blogging. You know If they come back to haunt them some kind of way because you know they say the Internet is forever even if you scrub even if you delete all of your tweets tweets. They're still I don't know the way back. Machine is still ways of trying to find your history and if someone wants to find dirt on you I think that they can so. Oh I think this will start Part of that wave concerned of of people wondering Should I delete my social media should you. You know especially when you have something like all of the privacy concerns with facebook and our information being leaked Every other day it seems from our you know all the the APPS that we use. So I'm I wonder if this is just going to start like People becoming much more concerned about their social media presence and in thinking about the future like what Marcia mentioned earlier I think in twenty forty or twenty forty five the presidential campaigns. Just as right now we just like these are their in positions on the issues. It'll just say they'll be also another category for checkout nudes. Like it'll just be campaign verbal consensual. Oh my God absolutely absolutely but it will be dislike. Sure check out minute. I'm just curious like the revenge corn aspect of it. Are there any consequences for that. Yes because there are at least forty one states including California and Washington where it is illegal To new release. You know images for the purpose of humiliating someone and You know as we're calling it revenge porn and I think if I understand correctly Katie Hill is seeking legal action against The publications who released the pictures and I'm not sure what she's GonNa do in in and in terms of her relationship with her husband. I mean that's where the newsworthiness comes in right. I mean if they are news where they and if we consider these sites meet the media India then it becomes it becomes a different consideration You know it's newsworthy. There's an exception. I'm also super curious about. I mean you mentioned earlier Nicole. The BI phobia like it. It see we should just take a moment to pause to talk about this the like it astonishes me that we're not just talking about a three bowl like on in headlines That there's a there's a certain mind blowing missed a part of this to me which honestly I felt too. I've been like Oh my God. I can't believe this is in the mainstream. No I mean clearly. It is not called that it's happening in the context of exploitation exploitation and in a very nasty destructive way. But there's something about this that I feel like this is a very significant moment. This something important has happened right now. Yeah like maybe if it had been if there wasn't an ethical violation involved in it was just a revelation that a congress person was in a triad that that would be. Okay I'm for maybe the first time All right. I think that's all the time we have for this listeners. Let us know whether you think the photos were newsworthy. Should they have been published we'd love to hear what you think you can reach us at the waves at slate dot com which by a t shirt for fifty dollars. If you knew it only costs seven dollars to make with ED allaying. You never overcame for quality coke. Ever Lane only makes premium essentials king the finest materials without traditional markups. They want you to know what you're paying for an why. 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Right now you can check out our personalized collection at ever lane dot com slash waves. And you'll get free shipping on your first order that's ever lane dot com slash waves evelyn dot com slash waves. This episode is brought to you by Casper. I mean let's face it you spend at least at least a third of your life sleeping so you really should be comfortable. Casper is sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you get your best rest warm night at a time. ASPER products are cleverly designed to mimic human clubs favorite kind of curves providing supportive comfort route for all kinds of bodies the original Casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for quality sleep surface with the right amount percents of both sink. It is always very important to get the right combination of sink and breathable design. Helps you sleep cool cool and regulates your body temperature through the night Casper Office. Three other mattresses the wave. 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And it's funny I feel weird Something erupts with me when I describe a woman as a mom by that don't don't limit it's very important to this. TV show because she is single and divorced and at the beginning of the show at the beginning of episode. Episode one unaffected concerns her packing up her son's stuff and taking him off to college When he eventually gets there she goes home? And and it's the kind of prototypical emptiness. She is alone in an empty house And she finds herself looking at porn and and there begins assault of journey of self discovery. sort of and she I basically the rest of the show is her trying to figure out what comes next. I'm figuring also what it is that she wants She has a lot more time. She has a lot more like it feels like the her world is starting over And she has to figure out what she's GonNa do with it and desire is is kind of what the show focuses on What is she going to do with her erotic? Take an emotional life. And what did you think of it. I found it dull. Unfortunately I love Kathryn Hahn I I'm very sorry to be so bored by it It felt that it just didn't really I don't know it was all about her and yet I felt like I didn't really know much about her. Even after I only watch five of the seven episodes and I think if we hadn't been talking about it I would have given up after one because it just was not grabby to me And again there's there's lots of actors in here that I really like in general and who you know were perfectly good. I just didn't think that the the story just didn't convince me. Somehow I appreciated. She added that you know the focus on desire and sex made sense to me because hey that's one thing when you when you feel dissatisfied in your life seeking satisfaction in that area can feel more doable can feel more achievable but That's kind of in my head. I didn't really get that from the show. It just felt like it was it was impenetrable in a way that I didn't really want to be but house all to say Katherine Hamas amazing. What did you think okay? So the the series is based on a novel by Tom. Perrotta and all the episodes are directed by women. But that still does not stop the fact that you can tell that that this is a man writing a woman's sexual exploration and Because what really turned me off. Pardon the PUN is the fact that every time eves sexual exploration moved away from home moved away from watching porn. It ends in humiliation then our dissatisfaction and it's like she is punished for her sexual exploration and I always just like this is ridiculous. I can't deal with this. This is awful. There has to be at some point where she has something good. That happens When it comes to her trying to figure out what she likes you know I I was just like I predict every major turn day predict every major turn that happens in the episodes? I was I finished all seven and I'm just like this is just telegraphed from episode one. And I I wanted to say I hated it but I don't hate it. I just hate that we. We still have to get this vision. This view of women's sexuality through a man's eyes and no matter how many women touched the script are directed the episodes this odes. It's just very clear that it's just It could have been better. Perrotta was also the show runner. We should note so You know there's a a lot of power in television. Although I did read that. He got overruled quite a few times. In terms of the turns that the script should take aac including some departures from the plot of the book. But but I I agree with what you said. Nicole Marshall what do you think really enjoyed as much as I thought. I would There's a parallel story. Line that runs in this as Mrs Fletcher. Kind of rediscovers herself absent of her child being home. He's away at college and the show does the kind of lazy. Oh you know this generation with their political correctness kness and their sexual politics stuff. That is so boring and inaccurate and unable to actually helpfully think about what does it mean for someone to also discover their sexuality in different ways in the context of being away from home in college as the young adult and so I think that everyone in this is doing the best they can with the material. But I think that it's supposed has to be this kind of slow journey into these people's lives but I think it takes a lot of lazy shortcuts so it's a really lingering ring narrative that doesn't really use. It's time well and this idea that The Kathryn Hahn character could be so just so absent for herself and for her own sexuality. I think rings true but the routes that she uses to kind of get there and the fixation on porn it makes me wonder has this woman never seen pornography has woman never had an orgasm like I need a little bit more understand how all of this stuff is new to her her in a way. That just seems a little ridiculous. I saw it sort of reframing the midlife crisis narrative as a coming of age narrative and in a way that felt slightly new to me like it felt a lot like a coming of age movie. that we would normally watch about teenagers like someone discovering and Master Bachchan Somebody you know having a slow motion dance scene to I'll stop the world and melt with you and like finding transcendence in in in that song in in getting drunk for what seems like the first time based on how she conducts herself I I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I kept wanting things to happen. Nothing kept happening and then when things did happen I predicted what would happen like two episodes earlier and I usually really like Kathryn. Turn Han and I think she does a good job in this I found. It's her very painful to watch. Because she's so uncomfortable throughout the entire thing. She's like very uncomfortable in her own on skin. She's awkward in swallowing herself in every interaction. She has in a way that felt overdone to the point. Where like nobody could ever be? Did that uncomfortable with themselves. You know no like middle aged well adjusted person would be that uncomfortable with themselves in every situation and be it was it just gave me like a Oh low key sense of anxiety throughout the entire show it also made me wonder whether it was trying to take seriously league. This idea that women can become more full of desire as they age instead of less or whether it was trying to make fun of it like there were a lot of little gags like You Oh she's masturbating and cookies are in the oven. She's baking cookies for her son and she has to decide what the timers going off like. is she going to have an orgasm or is she going to save the cookies from getting burned or like you know. She practices spanking herself. She's playing both roles in like a little S. and M. Seen She's doing with herself like it it. I appreciate a laugh but to me see those just felt like they were making fun of her and I wanted to see more of her being taken seriously and and finding herself the juxtaposition the position with the college story it been made me a little bit sad in thinking that maybe some people go directly from like terrible sex with drunk boys who only care about themselves and like our have no idea what they're doing to like a monogamous relationship with a man who also doesn't quite care about your pleasure and you don't ever get to decide what you actually like until you're in your late forties and divorced in your son moves away Yeah I WANNA talk. Talk About Brendan this. Yes because this is also such a sign posts for our straight SIS. White men bad leakers beds in and I'm like I think he literally says because Okay Brandon realizes that it's not enough for him to be this borish person he in high school. He was the man just because he made himself the man you know but in college everyone is kind of like. You're you're not intelligent. You refuse to adapt to language that we use things like that and he's realizing that he's not the God that he thought he was And like his White male mediocrity is just coming out lake in in its in its. Nobody wants to deal with it. His roommate avoids him He has a dalliance with a woman that ends Rather her terribly for her and he doesn't he's still doesn't understand it you know like he's trying to process says what happened and he knows that he's the bad guy but I don't think he understands how or why he's the bad guy in this situation. I found it very unlikely that this generic Eric State University would not have predominant culture of like white male Jock Hood it. It felt extremely like Wrong to me that this random state college campus was like so queer like one hundred percent queer and progressive. The only white guy who didn't know not to say you know a slur but there was one scene where he tries to go to the jocks table and they're talking about climate. Change is talk. Like what is he supposed to do now because he can all he wants to talk about. Is How to surf the soon Nami. And you know in this situation so I I don't know Brandon. Who from the you know the first second that you see? He's a horrible guy he's repulsive he's the ultimate and entitled Young White Man and the thing that never really really seemed to be dealt with is the fact that parents are responsible for whether their children are wonderful are awful completely but if if you are the white mother of a white sun it Kinda is on you to not make him be entitled Jerk and so that did feel like a huge huge failure for eve. And that was never grappled with it was like she was effectively. This wonderful person An air husband or ex husband was a shit at least to her and mostly to brandon and yet well she is responsible. Why why was that? Never reckon with And that felt like a big. When show is about Mrs Fletcher? Why did we? Why did they never deal with that? I watched all seven episodes and one one thing that stood out to me was the very careful ways that the show hid penises but we saw Eve's full-body naked it's several times We see other people naked. We see actual scenes of porn where women are completely naked. And we're seeing everything that we need to see in porn scene and so it just struck me as very odd and jarring to see the way that the show continued to hide. Dick's because I'm I'm like we're seeing everything else and it's not necessarily. Oh give me the Dick. I WanNa see you know like it's not like I'm like fina for but it's it's not fair it's just like what do we have a show about a woman's sexual expiration and you put her body on display but we don't see the men that she is involved oft with when they are naked we don't see Brandon We see him naked a couple of times but again his stuff is very carefully hidden. So I that's another thing I'm like you know. Just be fair. Well the other thing I mean to state the obvious to like I think there's one black person even in the background of this show so interesting resting location. I mean there's a black character who's somewhat central But there are no other black people like even in the background Khloe Yeah So she says she's a woman of Color And that is also something that I noticed that there was no Woman of Color. Who you know enjoyed any kind of sexual pleasure in the in the show but I? I can't hold it against the show because I don't think anybody achieve sexual pleasure in the show except for the white man yes exactly all right well. That's a rousing recommendation from listeners if you disagreed with US maybe loved the show I think there's two episodes out on. Hbo Right now. Let us know what you think you can reach us at the waves at slate dot com is something getting in the way of your happiness are preventing you from cheating your goals that your help online. Counseling is there for you with better health. You can connect with a personal counselor in a safe private online environment. It's so convenient you can know. Get help on your own time and at your own pace schedule. Secure video our phone sessions plus chat and Tex with your therapist. Bet Your help has licensed is professional counselors who specialize in depression anxiety navigating family conflicts a many more specializations. And anything you share with. The counselor cancelled is confidential. And if you happy for any reason you can request a new counselor at any time at no additional charge best of all. It's a truly affordable the option waves listeners. Get ten percent off their first month with the Discount Code. Wade's so why not get started today. Go to better help. Dot Com and slashed waves. Simply fill two questions to help them. Assess your needs and get matched with the consulate. You'll love that's better. HELP DOT com slash. The fair was one of the reporters who last October broke. The story of Harvey Weinstein's alleged pattern of sexual assault and harassment. He's he's published several pieces in the New Yorker about it and his new book catch and kill came out last month. The book not only explains how run into his reporting. But it gets into the truly truly flabbergasting lengths. Weinstein went to in order to keep those stories from getting out with help from private investigators duplicitous lawyers and a few executives at NBC. Where Ron was working when he started his investigation? We're so happy to have him here with us today to talk about the book catch and kill Ronin. Welcome to the waves. It's a pleasure to be thanks for having me yearbook to me. Read sort of like a treatment for a psychological thriller like you're being stocked. You're battling a conspiracy. See you're putting your notes in a safe deposit box with a letter about what to do. Linke's you disappear. What made you want to focus on that part part of the story about you know Weinstein's efforts to stop your reporting and NBC's cowardly failures rather than just sort of expanding on your reporting on Weinstein's Weinstein's alleged abuse well built into the plot that unravels and the book is this struggle that so many of us have avid journalists of not wanting to be the story and this odd tension where Harvey Weinstein weaponize is very personal stuff from my past and and kind of makes me the story and then the shutdown of the story starts commanding all this interest from good top journalists? Who kinda grill me about it and you know these things? That's where I sit there and dodge questions because I've you know told NBC. That I would do my best to dodge questions. I always said I wouldn't lie but you know for a time. I'm trying to save my job Bob and wondering if it's really significant enough that I need to be talking about it. Then then it partly the critical mass of sources coming forward talking about these his vast systems designed to shutdown stories and these cultures of depression that NBC am I and And other the places I've reported on that convinced me that this was a story as important as any other that I reported on. And you know that meant making king it A personal narrative part and that meant making it a book that embrace being a book and therefore being more narrative in full at at. What point did you start sort of keeping track of your own experiences with the intent of making that its own story? I was working as a journalist at the time so automatically. My posture was probably more About about keeping meticulous notes and records than maybe the average person in those circumstances But a lot of of it is just having that wealth of material and then only realizing after the fact oh every single day here is documented to the ends degree with you know recordings and no and transcripts and part of the process of writing the book was you know not just as the no taking took its time and all of the record keeping But also a very exhaustive process of going through and making of a Bible of what had happened day-by-day through essentially a two year period And then there's the pack that you know the the narrative. The book extends into almost the present day. I mean the final scenes in the book. Take place in Mid Twenty nineteen so I was both kind of meticulously assembling assembling all of the material from the recent past and then also Living Out to the end of the plot at the same time there was this weird situation. Where you know I was is getting calls about like movie adaptations and I just kept telling people I I am still in the plot? I can't I can't talk about that. I have to finish several years of crazy. The intensive reporting for this book is a chronicle of a very intensive reporting very intense reporting And the story also because you you put you put yourself in your own story You reveal that the the level of connections that you had with People like like Noah Oppenheim of NBC who was Keita. Kind of closing down the story. Matt Lauer you know you you were on the today show with him And you know what's clear and interesting to me was that you are so good on like the systemic problems that we're facing here that this is an old boys club You are also unlike the authors of she said you are a guy a white guy Did you ever have the feeling that you were. You were being kind of offered put entree into that old boys club. Did you ever have the sense that they were kind of tempting you into complicity in their world. Nothing to do with the abuse that many of these manner any recused of. Did you ever kind of deal with that sense of like. Please join our club. Yeah there are many scenes in the book where You know men are talking about women in a certain way or talking about the expediency of killing a story and certain way and these questions kind and is it worth it. I mean for what it's worth. Some of those characters you mentioned are incredibly frank about motivations in the book you know that they openly we say like you know. Does it really matter. Is it really that bad with harvey wine in his doing You know girls like that a lot of things you know. There's some pretty nasty things that gets ed Nakedly and openly. I think partly because they assume that I am part of that boys squad that you mentioned and there are moments than where the temperature in the room changes in in scenes in the book When I push back upon that and then become something of an outsider and a pariah and in a funny way while I can't claim to understand the Systemic sexism that gets directed at so many of my sources over the course of this book. I get it kind of halo effect from it where suddenly I'm being called. You know hysterical Eric. Bolling Ju- emotional things and all of the things that women get called when they got about these issue. How has your reporting change the way you see the intersections of power and performances of masculinity and have you become more aware of men who have such extreme difficulties separating status from their masculinity? You know sometimes in conversation that I have with man accused of serious crimes of sexual violence. Those two things are strikingly entwine twine. That a person's status Lead to a set of misapprehensions or rationalizations after the fact about their actions Weather that is someone who has maybe had a life experiences that involved volved getting Rejected by People they were making sexual advances on and power became a huddle to get what they couldn't get by consent incent or The reverse case where someone. By dint of their power and charisma is used to people saying yeah including people who works for them and people they have complete control over And I've seen the scenario where someone seems to be convinced that it's impossible that anyone anyone could say no You know in both of those extremes lead to a situation where power has kind of corrupted and led to this kind of criminal activity on the other hand. Some of that is people psychology themselves after the fact it's rationalizing the thing and you know no matter how powerful moment is I think they know when they're engaged in criminal activity. One of the things I really enjoyed enjoyed about the book is the way that you unmask. The deep connections among the Media and entertainment companies and so at various various turns when you know Ronin roving reporter goes out to try to report the story you realize how many people have this a close relationship with Weinstein or his companies and so when we think about the way forward it's not just Story about people being brave enough to talk about their experiences. It's also about how power has been consolidated in these industries. What do you imagine is possible? in the wake of the exposure of this type of stories in terms of how these various circles interact with each other other or. Do you think we're kind of stuck with these weird relationships among the press and the entertainment industry and the publishing industry get. It's back to the first question in the conversation. You know one of the reasons why I thought this was a separate important story was because it it explains how powerful interests throttle the flow of information in our culture and how that can affect our democracy. You know one of the threads in this book is me following following these clues from Harvey Weinstein's relationship with the national enquirer to Donald Trump's relationship with the national enquirer and controlled violations of election law that resulted from and then burying stories for trump You know this is important. Stuff who controls the news who tells our story And at and in the deep web of alliances between the media and powerful people accused of terrible crimes absolutely has distorted news coverage at add some of our greatest news organizations You know there's a there's a straight line through that reporting I've done on the inquirer on. PBS ON ON NBC. Some of those are great news organizations and some not But they're all media companies that enjoy the protections of the First Amendment and rightly so And I think one of the most powerful things we can do is have an honest conversation about how to hold ourselves accountable especially especially at our our great media organizations but even at our tabloid media organization how to ensure that People who are supposedly in the business of imparting knowledge orange instead becoming instruments of depression and I used to think that we are stuck with those circles of mutual protection and suppression of inflammation. I think that the fact that Media is becoming more more diverse and fragmented is actually a good thing. In terms of loosening the vice grip powerful people held on media for so long And I I think that the bravery of sources like the women and catch and kill and the bravery of the the reporters that talk about attaching until you know. Ken Oletta Ben Wallace so Jodi Kantor and Megan twohey That all leaves me with a lot of optimism about our willingness as a culture to continue commute confront complicity in the media. Along those lines. You know you mentioned a couple other reporters who had worked on the story before and you also mentioned that you know it. It took took sources willing to talk and willing to come forward In order to get the story out there so I feel like there's you know when when I think about why the story story or stories came out when they did There are maybe a couple of reasons why that might be part of it. Is You know great reporting by folks like you and part of it is willingness on the sources part. What do you think played into? The ability of both of those forces says combining to finally get the story out there after so many thwarted attempts by by previous journalists and previous women. Well I have the luxury story of doing my work in cultural moment. Where some of these things were being reassessed It was still almost impossible for so many of my sources to imagine they might be and be heard but I was able to convey to them that there were some Kim precedents beginning to emerge. You know that the the accusers of Bill Cosby had refused to shut up. Then that that story had bubbled up for Peterlee that Gretchen. Carlson and others at Fox News had done what they did and blow that candle wide open. There were a couple of examples. I can point to where there was at least some suggestion that the Dan the break and that intern rests on a whole wider history seminary and activism and things. I have nothing to do with Including Toronto burks works. Wonderful Work You know she coined the term metoo Delta instrumentals mobilizing people I'm a reporter. I don't have anything to do with movement building or activism but I certainly was able to work in a climate where activists and created a more of eighth for women to be their truth on this subject When women became more vocal about speaking out against sexual harassment a lot of times their male colleagues? Say things like like. Oh I can't tell you you look good today or else I'm GONNA get fired. You know to try to cover up their discomfort or anything you know something like that and I wonder if your colleagues have changed changed their behavior when you come around now are they. Are they joking with you. Like a next on the list am I. You know but it's also kind of like a a little. Is there a little bit of fear in those jokes. I definitely get a lot of those jokes and You know mostly the calls I make guys are are You know supportive calls Working with sources. Who are you know willingly giving me information? It's a very small else upset where I'm gonNA adversarial calling grill someone about allegations against them But you know it cuts both ways. I think the reputation that I've acquired acquired You know a lot of people to pick up the phone and that's great And hopefully that flows from people having some sense that I'm Trustworthy as a journalist analyst There are also plenty of people maybe in the same category. You're talking about who hang up the phone really quickly. They call And you know who is doing about something something terrible and I and I there's a funny dynamic and have had to develop a language where if I'm calling a prominent man in my reporting and they're not accused of something terrible. I have to say very quickly. This is not about anything about you. I just seeking information about someone else opposition to be in in this current moment moment. What is it like for you to then? I don't know exist in the space of journalism because I imagine you're persona non grata data in a lot of other places. What did this do to you in terms of thinking about your own Both professional and personal relationships chance with people who felt like you had exposed their complicity or expose their bad behavior. Well I try to be very aware of and to check my talk about my privilege in at every turn and was always very conscious of many ways in which I was crippled as I was living through these men from from not being a journalist in You know Pakistan or Russia or any of the many places journals just wind up dead for doing this kind of work all the way to just simply being a guy in our culture And therefore in some ways being more theme It that said it was a scary turn of events. Then I'm very frank in the book about the ways in which You know I really had to make a decision to see my career. Sure go away in the course of telling the story and that was more difficult for people that are working level like my producer at NBC. Rich mccue WHO's as an incredible guy at a really emerged as a portrait of bravery in this book? Because you know he has four little girls to support and You know is living in the suburbs and dealings his mortgage and has a lot more on the line than I do as a young at the time you know single person If in a wonderful supportive relationship but you know without any dependents and Y- Peop- The people putting their careers on the line like he did. That's a real real cost and feel anxiety inducing and I tried to bring people inside my own experience of that Hopefully you to teach people something about the wider community of people with a lower journalists. Who who go through those kinds of fears That said so you try to focus on the positive and I have been incredibly fortunate and in a a frankly unusual position in that you know my career there has come back and I'm doing okay And yes I get attack the various kinds legal and even threats to my personal safety and Yes that you say I'm persona non grata in some circles in the media world And have been blacklisted and various places and so forth. Then that's all you know described in the book and has been confirmed by other reporters But I'm making a living and doing well and Immensely Hensley grateful at all times for how much the court I've gotten in the wake of all of this and I guess I try to highlight both of those sides because not everyone has that luxury not everyone has had a public profile and is able to rally kind of public support around this kind of controversial to work. Thank you so much Ronin We really enjoyed the buck and it was great to get to chat with you about it. I'm so grateful for three days calling attention to it and thank you for the work you do for the smart compensation. Thank you take care guys five. I WanNa talk a little bit about our our own takeaways. This from Lubbock What did you all get from it? I was surprised how much of a page Turner it was for me Particularly since I don't typically glee read these kinds of I don't WanNa call it a tell all but this kind of investigative nonfiction slash. I don't I I don't know what else it could be called but I don't re- typically read this and I found myself enthralled and I I really appreciate it. The way that he was able to. Balance the facts of what was going on with the need to keep the reader's attention. Because that can be a very delicate line to walk and A lot of people people will go more towards the sensational side. And you know. Make exploit the The situation exploit the experiences that the victims were having but I think he did a really good the job of making sure that we were aware that this is a these are real live events that are happening and and that have happened and that we need to Understand understand the seriousness. Of all these different situations. I agree and I also find it a complete page Turner. I was surprised. This is kind of a guy tend to read for like. Oh you know behind the scenes like how did he do the reporting kind of thing and she revealed that but it also really was just like gripping I really appreciated the way that he we really focused on the systemic aspects. Like sure there are some bad guys around but it's there are so many of them and they've been there for so long they've been covering up for each other and it really. You know we can call it. An boys clubs have been doing. But you know it's a culture of keeping quiet and and And the other thing that it was terrifying honestly and something that also came up in all the coverage of the theranos scandal that we've been hearing the last year year and a half was this deployment deployment of the a very expensive legal help to threaten and to try to silence people either within days or just threatening joining them with legal action and you know involving people who are faking personalities like just it is terrifying to to stop a story coming out. There's just this entire spy operations happening. I mean it is a real life spy story in many away and that's terrifying for me. It it was a little bit surprising and perhaps also telling that for a story that was that's essentially the about you know the abuse of women and the bravery of those women. It was a very very male heavy story. I mean almost all of the people in our men you know the people reporting the story that people making decisions about whether or not that reporting gets on air You know the people editing that work producing that work that people spying the people doing the abusing abusing female story Which I think helps explain why these stories haven't come out that for so long they were just sort of like like pooh-poohed as like oh that's a personal matter there were a lot of people You know up and down the hierarchy at NBC. who were like well? Is that really so bad or also sort sort of objectify in commenting on the appearance of some of the survivors of Weinstein's abuse in our recent is it sexist segment we talked about The Way Bob Woodward Woodward talked about She said Megan twohey and Jodi Kantor's book about you know Weinstein's abusing their reporting about it and how he was like well isn't it about sex said it's very core and I think this book does a really good job of explaining how sex is actually kind of a small part of it and it's you know if it was just about men in wanting sex there wouldn't it's not just like men are horny and can't help themselves like if it was just about that there would not be hundreds of millions of dollars and and and you know global spy operations Harnessed to protect these men. This is a this is about throwing power around in maintaining a hierarchy of power that that benefits you know the men at the top of NBC. And all these law firms as much as it. Does you know Weinstein who who gets to. Who you know for decades got to stay in his is position of power? I think that the way the book is written. Also there's a level of self awareness that Pharaoh embodies as he's talking about his his greater opportunities at NBC That some of the people we need who are in the position to control role. Not only what types of stories are available to a larger public. But what kind of reporting he can do. There's all these signposts that there's something a little off off about these guys and what I think is really interesting. Is that the people who are determining whether the Weinstein story should run. If they're not friends friends with him they have also engaged in inappropriate workplace behavior as well and so he's creating a really compelling through line in about the ways that people Some with great privilege. Some with moderate amounts of privilege how they're trying to prove themselves in a system. Tom Has already determined. That sexual harassment is not a big deal and you see his growing awareness of his relationship to this system as the story gets deeper and deeper and I appreciate that there wasn't this kind of I think sometimes people who write these stories. These can sometimes feign a little bit of innocence of like. I can't believe that you know my hero in this organization would do this but just a real grappling doing with coming into this awareness and having to hold oneself accountable And still trying to make it work in a system that is so Deeply deeply toxic doc. Sick it was also a a vindicating text for women who've been told their paranoid for thinking that there was like a global conspiracy to keep these kinds of allegations under wraps lake. Rose McGowan in particular And I I've been a little bit critical of her book. Look I in a piece I wrote for sleet and you know I I don't completely Agree with the ways that she's gone about You know Activating in this in the METOO era. If you WANNA call it that but You know she she's completely written off as paranoid and crazy and hysterical hysterical. Meanwhile a woman has been posing as her best friend when when really working for the spy operation hired by Weinstein in order to get dirt on her like. It's it's I don't know if I know I called vindicating. I'm not sure if that's exactly what it is but it Certainly validates a lot of people's goals suspicions. That there are you know. Entire industry is full of men and several women Working to to protect these people just because I don't know they're they. They love money that much like I I I guess about their motives. All you want but To help keep these alleged abusers in power. That's all the time we have for catch and kill. If you've read the book we'd love to hear what you think. Email us at the waves asleep dot com. It's time for our recommendations who wants to go I I can I want want to give a rousing recommendation for mark. Morris's memoir said that six times fast which is called out load Mark Morris of course the dancer Dancer and choreographer and dance and especially modern dance. Well actually all dance is a is kind of the the area of Arts and culture that I am that I know at least about that. I see least And yet I find Mark Morris a very interesting person. Because he's these kind of loud you know like like the title says says he's. He's somebody who is brash. And and just kind of out there and I was just curious to hear the story of his life and first of all. It's very compellingly Langley. Written it's written with a CO writer But it feels like I don't know him so I don't know if it is his voice but this voice feels like it would be the voice of Mark Marris's very Sassy Z.. And Sharp and You know he doesn't hold his doesn't hold back and also just learned a huge amount about both dance and choreography offi and just like the work that goes into making dances to forming. Accompany on becoming a denser. All of these things that were hidden to me and Uh now I feel like I have a sense of them and it was just a really fun and interesting book to read out loud by mark. Morris sounds really good Marshall would you have. I have have a podcast again. This one is called that that don't kill me. And it is a non inspirational. Look about illness and disability from two people who had chronic illness um since they were young and it really delves into the stories that we often don't hear about anxieties about dating about going out and you can't drink because of your medical situation. How much do you you tell coworkers about your disability or your illness Being a kid in a hospital and I just think that these conversations are so thoughtful and are really just in the service of honesty and not again inspiring people which I think is really fantastic. And so the podcast is is that that don't kill me with Kendall ceasefire and James Enrich. That sounds awesome Nicole what's yours. Okay so I had one recommendation. And then and in watching Mrs Fletcher. I changed it So my recommendation is a music band. Call Duran Jones and the indications is there was a song that plays in a particular moment in the in the series And I just kept. I can rewind the scene just to hear the song so it is a Old School soul pop sound kind of group and when I say old school. I'm saying it's a little smokey Robinson's and Frankie Lymon the oldest reading There's just really really good. I strongly recommend I know. There's an album on spotify and they're all on social media where you know wherever you want to find on them And I think that they're perfect ban for when you want something soulful but with much more care With the lyrics musicianship than what is currently happening in our NBA. Right now so that is Durand Jones and the indications wow. I'm so glad you got something. It did have a very good soundtrack. There is also Queer Dance Party that for some reason Brendan got to go to where they're playing like Jd. Samson and men and Teagan and Sara. Sarah and I was like excuse. You give me this playlets All right I'm going to recommend. This is the first time I've ever recommended an action movie to anybody. I think I'm going to recommend Terminator Dark Fate. Terminator Movie For those of you not familiar with the Terminator Series or unfamiliar similar with this latest Entry into the series It's apparently it disregards several other terminators. That have come before Apparently like the lead woman character Sarah Connor who's played by Linda Hamilton like it was implied. Or maybe said that she died at some point. Well she didn't die she's back in this movie She was she started in the first two. Terminator Movies And this is the first one. She's back for the film. Also Stars Mackenzie Davis who is a queer icon for her role in San Pero. The acclaimed Black Mirror episode And also Natalia is in the movie she's really great too. I recently wrote a piece about this. Because a little Birdie had told me that it was an incredibly queer and feminist text And it definitely is first of all. There's basically no says men in it. I'm not counting the two terminators. One of whom is is played by Arnold Schwarzenegger the other of who was played by another guy But I don't consider them salesmen. 'cause they're robots wearing sort of like masculine presenting something skins So the only real says man in it are have very small parts and they die And so it's a very like women lead movie movie. That's also incredibly queer. Even though it's mostly like very loud dog whistle There's there's no explicit acknowledgement of a sexual relationship between the two characters. Who seem like they're together but they're definitely more than platonic I actually wrote a piece about it that you could find Esley dot com will link to it on this shows shows a page. It's also critique of masculinity a little bit like Arnold Schwarzenegger's character Like I'll be back. Perhaps some of you may have heard that famous line from this movie He he's sort of a reformed character where he is learning to perform emotional Labor which is not does not come naturally to either you know. The the masculine ideal presented in the film series or to a robot He has a family a non sexual relationship with his female partner. But they've copernicus child together romantically involved He's like performing Housework Decorating the home I I also think it's being marketed to the wrong people because I found it really fun a and and kind of sexy and just an enjoyable movie but it's bombing at the box office. Because I think it's terminator fans are going to see the movie and are are sort of disappointed that there

Katie Hill Harvey Weinstein Congress Mrs Fletcher Kathryn Hahn NBC Nicole Donald Trump reporter California harassment Paul HBO Dan producer Christina Ricci Delta Airlines Ronan Farrow Eve
Friday, Feb. 21: Katie Hill, and Storm Reid

The View

37:52 min | 1 year ago

Friday, Feb. 21: Katie Hill, and Storm Reid

"Subscribe to our podcast to get hot topics delivered every afternoon. And while you're at it rate US and Labor Review Jump Start Your weekend because the view is live. Russian redux intelligence officials warned that Russia's meddling in our election again and trying to keep trump in office why the president's response is raising eyebrows former California congresswoman Katie Hill opens up about the nude photo league and scandalous sex allegations. That led your stepping down from Congress Euphoria Star Storm Reid on her terrifying new thriller the invisible man and political analyst and bestselling author. Michael Eric Dyson is guest co hosting fire up Friday hat toppings with whoopie Joy Behar Sunny Halston Meghan McCain and Anna Navarro. Now let's get things started. I don't know please. Stop Stop Okay. So it's Friday so other is at the table today. Joining us as guest. Co host is a political analyst. Who has written another best selling book? Jay Z made in America. Dr Michael Eric Dyson. So his top to start with so the Russians are at it again. Us intelligence warns that Russia's meddling in the twenty twenty election da and they wanNA keep trump in office double dial. Apparently trump is really upset about this but not because of what the Russians join but because he's Afraid Adam Schiff and the Democrats would use this against him. yeah This is his own intelligence. Saying this this is not some anti trump media talking about this. These are his people so should Democrats be his biggest concern or should the Russians to be his biggest concern is if the Russians the Russian certainly are in a big conservative is if they are helping him get elected and this has not stopped right. We have known since twenty six hundred was known since two Thousand Fifteen Obama new and should have done more than he did that the Russians were meddling. We have not stopped hearing all the warnings entire time from US intelligence agencies now it is a damn shame and embarrassment that the president of the United States put the word of the Russians and Vladimir Putin in front of the word of the US intelligence agencies that is unacceptable and this weekend was compounded by him putting one of his loyalist with no intelligence experience as a director of intelligence. Who was the ambassador to Germany? Also can I just point out one thing that the Republicans are complicit because a last week the Senate the Republican Senate blocks three separate election security bills down so they don't want to help it either. You no the cybersecurity stuff is they're vulnerable on And and the tragedy is of course when you think about classic Republican ideology in this country I mean stalwart good stuff committed to America. They were the they were the best at pointing out the kind of commies we were hiding under the Bush the red baiting and they were staunchly conservative in defending this country against the incursions of people who would stand in the. Kremlin to try to manipulate American politics. Now they're being invited in and think about Obama. If Obama had a white Russian drink in the Oval Office he might have got him to impeach. Now you got a guy drinking with a white Russian and talk sounds like Putin it just seems to be something that is attractive and it's it's really problematic. It reflects poorly on Republicans and Democrats if we are on American culture invested in upholding a democratic value. That means we don't have cybersecurity. Jumping in determining reflect badly on Democrats. Well because when you said that Obama should have stepped up a bit earlier to save. This is what's going on. He was lowered to do so because he didn't want to have. What his his thumb on the scales he didn't WanNa political but the reality is. Is that if you know if you see something say something so. Both parties have to be held accountable but especially given the history and the track record of Republicans who have read this country for so many years. It seems I think one of the reasons that Trump is also load to do anything because everyone questions the legitimacy of his presidency right. Because we know that that Clinton Hillary Clinton got three million more votes popular votes and so I've always questioned the legitimacy of his presidency. Because of Russia's involvement Muller said in two thousand sixteen he warned I will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments that there were multiple SYS systematic efforts to interfere in our election. That allegations deserves the attention of every American. He warned us in two thousand sixteen. And now we know it's twenty twenty. It's continues to happen. It's going to happen again during this election. And so you know the fact that trump not only put in grinnell as his national intelligence director he fired Maguire. The one that was in place because Maguire told how the House members that Russia was interfering. His pro became angry at that. Yeah so rather than do something about it. He fired the person that sounded the alarm. Okay it doesn't take a political scientists to see that trump has a bizarre relationship with Putin. I think anyone that paid any attention to anything. Helsinki the way he talks about Putin I think most people in most classic Republicans like you said. Mr dyson considerate very alarming. Because we are traditionally in America. First Party I think where I get uncomfortable is now we have Bernie Sanders thing that it's Russian bots. That are responsible for his Bernie. Rose and twitter actually came out and said it's not that you have a Bernie Bro Problem Online and they're real people and it's not Bernie bots that are sent by Russia and I would implore all people to take when you're using Russia politically in one way or another to take it seriously and not just use it To quite frankly just have a cop out for why you have a bunch of misogynistic followers on twitter as Russian dressing. I mean it could. Frankly be it could be both right. It could be. It is Bernie. Bros it is definitely Bernie rose but it could also be rushing but I do think that Bernie Sanders said. It's not a yellow twitter seal at a very good record. One as far as I'm concerned and facebook hasn't even worse record but I do think is Bernie. Sanders needs to take responsibility and be accountable for what he can do and he needs to be able to do more because look you can say yeah but but trump gets away with that. That's true but that's why we don't. We don't want trump. We expect better and we expect more from the people running against trump. And that means you gotta be able to control the misogyny motive here to to hurt Bernie to it's divisive American. He should have much more vigilant than saying. This is not who I am. Those people say they support me. They should not be doing this kind of thing. Because it reinforces the perception that Bernie Sanders is the flip side of of Donald Trump. To older white guys who were largely insensitive to ratio paranoia and racial realities in this country. Thank you. We'll be right back next week. We're firing up the political view former mayor of Chicago Rahm Emanuel hits the table. This sharks are in the house. Mark Cuban and Kevin O'Leary are taken a bite out of hot topics and any winter. Eighty south go brings her view next week gun. Abc later Gd Hill shares. How she handled the sex scandal that led to are stepping down as congresswoman and the invisible man star storm. Reid welcome back. Today's black history month F. Y. I. Honors a leader of the Harlem Renaissance. And the first African American to earn a living as a writer Langston Hughes a poet a novelist playwright columnist and activists his massive catalogue of work includes sixteen volumes of poetry. Two novels twenty plays nine children's books plus radio TV and movie scripts. Well we should never again about. We work inspired by his life in Harlem. His writing condemned racism demand that equality and brilliantly captured black experience in America with heart at humor. God I wish he was alive today. Rally in Colorado Springs last night trump proved once again that he has his finger on the pulse of what Americans really concerned with right. Now Watch the way. How bad were the Academy Awards and the winner is a movie from South Korea? What the Hell was that? We got enough problems with South Korea with trade on top of it. They give him the best movie of the year. Was that good I. I'm looking for like let's get gone with the wind gone with the wind back when I thought it was best foreign foreign movie. No it was just happened before. Yeah let's bring back the good old days you get in there because enough of that kind of kowtowing in from one to another. You know what's interesting? I think that's why he's upset. I think when he saw the name parasite he thought it was the trump family I thought he was referring to rudy. Giuliani irony in the tragedy. Here's this is that if we say to In America bring your best wear. Show them off. We're a nation that is international. Clerking didn't say anything. When Joaquin Phoenix won the BAFTA award in in British culture? They gave it to him for joker xenophobia into show your intellectual and artistic passport before you can be received. Thank God for International Art. Thank God for parasite if trump were to actually ever look at it. Yeah he would see a profound engagement with human themes and ideals that are going to fight you that I mean too. Many subtitles leaving the guy who wrote parasite the the writer director said. He can't read. That's the problem with reading the aspect of. Let's bring back gone with yes. Why don't we bring back? Mamie with the handkerchief on her head and then bring back the civil war. Let's bring back sleigh. Well I don't know babies right. That's what that's what struck me. I mean I know. He was born in Nineteen forty-six and gone with the wind. The movie came out in forty six years old. What has always struck me. Was this make America. Great again theme all right. When was America great to him and it was great when gone. With the wind came out with all those caricatures combat VAT stereotypes racial tropes. I thought what he said was really instructive and reflective of what is the point about his administration is the Godfather. Let's face well definitely. Yes Soul to the Godfather to compare him. I can't even say it in Marlon Brando shadow that reason but the kind of anarchic chaotic of fascist impulse. There's no question about that but gone with. The wind is about support needing black people to wait for it. Because it'd be real deal have second thoughts on this about the civil war. It's a slave movie. Yes a slave. We've I've seen it saves them who've come on they were. You know the misinterpretation and and what's interesting to me the rearticulating of the confederacy. I thought we were against participation trophies. You lost the war is like the is like the team that lost the Super Bowl has an anniversary every year when we lost the Super Bowl. It's also Harry sexist movie rather than the end basically the next when it comes to trump being and movie critic. Here's what I have to say. Frankly my dear I did dance. So this actress Mae tell dough. Han recently broke up with Oscar winner. The Great Al Pacino and she says their relationship couldn't survive the thirty six year age gap and also claim that he stingy saying the only thing he bought her was flowers. Now we we always talk about the age gap on this show. We do that frequently. But the fact that she says he's shit cheap. It's like personal. What do you want from a man? What do you need things from a man? I can see he needs from her. Maybe an organ donor versus the other way around like a young woman. You need things from this guy. Sociological Exchange Rate. She gives me beauty. I give her money so she gave him beauty but he didn't get rid of Dote Al Pacino. He's a superstar. You know what forget the money learn from him. How did Marlon Brando do what he did behind the scenes carrying behind scenes when he first moved up to? What did he do cotton in the job but look look what her name May Tell? Doane your name think at all for him. It may tell the truth that the Dole is in his hand. I I don't like a stingy man. I do not like stingy man by my own stuff. I remember when manning I I went out on a date the bill came and I just looked at the bill because I mean it's the first day and I remember him taking out his card putting it in the in the billfold and just giving it. He didn't even look at the bill. And I I liked that you always got on when I joined the. It doesn't make a difference counterbalanced manny. I know that he had already calculated head when I ordered it. I know him now but let me say this. I think that she is quite the gold digger. She is quite the gold digger because she also said that he was too old for her she knew how old Al Pacino was twice her age in it for the money and then when she didn't get the money she bounced second care of mathematics. He wanted to see how much older age could go into a younger age. I mean I know Al Pacino I've spent time with has he given you flowers. Glad interesting to listen to and to be with him. He's charming and he's brilliant and he he came from very you know A modest circumstances you and yet look at where he is and he's seventy nine years old and his career is kicking in again out on television. He's doing a show nazi-hunters man yeah and I mean. Listen may tell. She needs to get a grip on herself. She is a forty year old grown ASS WOMAN. Who a working actress. You want something Nice. Pay Yourself. Don't depend on a man. She's a gold digger. You have anything I was just thinking of Al Pacino hit on me and I was single what I go out with him and I probably would not be interesting to buy me anything. I can my own stuff like I'm fine on my first date with Steve. I said was splitting this. I don't want any man controlling me ever ever. I don't think any man thinks they can control my pal Al Darling if you need somebody to flowers to get them and I hear some Michael you had something you wanted to mention before we got. This is my Kobe. Bryant hat memorial to him. I'm going to the memorial service on Monday at the staple center I knew him very well. I wrote the Slam magazine piece on him when he retired. I called him the greatest basketball player of all time. Remarkable life of beautiful man a great family man and we miss them sorely a genius that he was. Katie Hill opens up about the sex scandal that led to her resignation. This is the last speech that I will give from this floor. As a member of Congress and that she says had are on the brink of suicide the prejudice against her bisexuality and why her time is just beginning when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste. You need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot Com post. A job in minutes set up screener questions then zero win on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard. And when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsor jobs new users can try for free at indeed dot com slash view that's indeed dot com slash view terms conditions and quality standards apply offer valid through March. Thirty first twenty twenty. See The new Disney movie timmy. Failure mistakes were made a twenty twenty Sundance Film Festival official selection about a young detective. Timmy failure and his partner of fifteen hundred pound polar bear named total streaming only on Disney plus beginning February seventh. This is the last speech that I will give from this floor as a member of Congress. I wasn't ready for my time here to come to an end so soon. I wanted to show young people. Queer people working people imperfect people that they belong here. Because this is the people's House I fell short of that and I'm sorry that was former congresswoman Katie Hill. Who was a rising Democratic Star of the midterm election? One of the youngest members of the freshman class who flipped the house back to the Democrats and one of the first openly bisexual politicians in DC but less than a year after victory allegations of sexual affairs at nude photos that were leaked online led to her decision to step down here to share her story and tell us her next move. Please welcome Katie Hill. Welcome last October nude photos view and private text messages were leaked online and you were exposed for having a religious husband and a younger female staffer on your on your congressional campaign okay. So those are the facts so two questions. How did you react when that happened? That must have been painful. And what these photos taken with or without your consent. Well I. The photos were taken without my consent without my knowledge even and then of course they were put out there without my consent and when it comes to The reaction that you have. It's very difficult to describe. It's not only. Does your gut fall out of your out of the bottom of you. But you've you feel like something has been fundamentally ripped away the you'll never get back this level of of privacy of intimate privacy that now the entire world has seen in in that never changes. That never goes away. I find out I had. We were hearing rumblings that there were photos out there and I honestly did not think that publication would actually do. That would actually post them. Do you think that was naive Eat probably yeah but I. I also honestly didn't think that my husband would do that if not for me than for the other person involved. So but yeah he did and IT'S A. It was an incredibly difficult thing to to reconcile to recover from and I would not say that I have fully recovered from it but finding a way to move forward is something. That's really important to me. Well you and your husband are currently going through a divorce and you had been together since you were sixteen. I was sixteen and he was twenty. Twenty you say that he leaked them out of revenge. Why did he want revenge so I? I had tried to leave in October. Our relationship had gotten increasingly toxic I was afraid for my safety and I left in October of Right before the election and you know how bad it has to be for me to like plan an exit right before the election and so I did My mom had to help moved in with my mom. I even my campaign manager ended up helping and so I was away during that time. He had a complete meltdown and he he told not only me but many other people involved that he if I left him he would ruin me so at the time. The election is coming up the November elections coming up and I felt like I just couldn't I just couldn't risk it. I couldn't deal with whatever he meant by that and so I ended up moving back in. And but from that point forward. I knew I couldn't stay with him for the longtime for the long run but it was it was it just started my job as a member of Congress. And how do you planning any victim of an in? An abusive relationship. Has that process of actually leaving very difficult. So when I finally did he make good on his promise Did you know what he meant by Ruin you? I think I had a feeling. Yeah I had a feeling because when the the relationship started and it's wrong right. It's wrong that it started in the first place. The the one with my the montage is that the one you refer offering. She loves to speak French thing. Well I mean that's that's the part that's more tissue titillating. Send the pictures out or I really didn't think that it would. He would send the pictures out because of you know out of respect for her. Not For me so Sunday you have a legal note before we go Representatives for your estranged husband. Kenny Heslop told ABC News. He denies the allegations of quote. Miss Hill has made no allegations of abuse in her petition for dissolution. Mr Heslop denies any allegations of abuse or wrongdoing outright. The parties are currently in the process of negotiating an amicable settlement lend to respond to that really quick because once I saw that That response yesterday a couple of things. The first is that he actually filed the petition for dissolution so no. I have not made any allegations of abuse then also California's a no fault state. You don't have to make any allegations of anything. So why would I have wanted to open that up? When it wasn't it wasn't Germane to anything and this was mind you back in June. I left in June for real. And and so. Of course there was no claims of that in my non existent petition for dissolution And then the second piece about it being an amicable attempt at resolution. I have been trying since day. One to to resolve this out using crazy attorney's fees and going through the the horrible process. You know everyone's become more and more familiar with from a marriage story if they haven't gone through it themselves but it's certainly has not been amicable and Trying to come to some kind of resolution on it is is far different than it being able so I think any revenge of any kind of horrific. I've interviewed many women who have been victims and I think there should be laws everywhere that it should be illegal because I think it's very dangerous and very it can really ruin people's lives and a lot of ways and I have compassion for you and I didn't think it was right for those photos to be published anywhere I think my problem is that you were running for Congress and you were sleeping with a member of your And I think that in this era sort of naive to think that if you were doing something like that that someone wouldn't find out it wouldn't be a salacious scandal. I know that you think it was poor judgment in hindsight but nothing stays hidden in politics. Why would you take that risk? It wasn't it didn't happen in a way that you were conscious of. I knew from the very beginning. It was a risk right. And that was I would I would say is that. I was in the middle of a very tumultuous relationship in an incredibly stressful time working with an incredibly close team In the trenches with them and Some relationship form that shouldn't have formed and I I'm very well aware of that and I I believe I've taken full accountability by stepping down. When you know I've been asked over and over. Do you regret stepping down. Do you think that with everything that's going on you? Should you have done and I well? I have a lot of reasons that I stepped down. But one of the biggest is that I can take the question off of the table of whether you know whether I should or shouldn't be able to kind of set this example right so Mi- yeah I would say I was always I was always afraid of it but You know I was you end up in those kinds of situations and it just was sort of what happened but I guess my question is. Why did you feel it necessary to step down? We see so many people who who do things and waited out particularly now right. Look you you were accused. Your husband also accuse you of having an affair with a congressional staffer. You've denied that. But that's because house rules and there was an ethics investigation opened up what has happened with an ethics investigation. Is that the ethics investigation. What led you to resign or no. No the ethics investigation. It's funny there's there's such slow processes there's but it's incredibly invasive to my staff into my entire office and was so the investigation continues even when you leave it stops but it's not something that was not why I resigned. It's also something that I'm glad I was able to take the pressure off of my staff by resigning so that they didn't have to worry about that. But but you know the. Why did I decide to step down? It was my realize the impact that I was having on my colleagues. I did not want to be a distraction during the time that we were coming up on the impeachment inquiry vote. I didn't want to be used as a tool against my fellow freshmen. Who were coming from these swing districts? I'm already there. Were trackers who were plopped out in front of Capitol Hill and they were asking my fellow freshman. Many of whom I consider friends who have tough races you know. What do you think about Katie Hill? What are you going to condemn her? You GonNA ask her to step down and yeah and they don't want to be put in that situation. It's interesting though that Nancy. Pelosi told you not to step down. Yeah Yeah and she usually knows what she's talking about. Yeah yeah she I mean she. She afraid of losing the seat. I guess I don't know I think she. More of the senior members who've seen scandal after scandal after scandal that have not resulted in resignations. There have been far fewer women who've been involved in the scandals just just because there's far fewer women that have been in office right but they they have usually taken the stance until recently that you that you right out in the voters decide. Yeah Yeah Okay. That's the other side. Where do I think right? Typically that's what they do. Yeah we're GONNA have you stay for another segment? Is that okay more back with Katie Hill. Who's been talking about the sex scandal that led to her resigning from Congress. Megan you recently said you didn't think the story would blow up as much if you weren't bisexual Do you think that there's just more titillation because there was like another woman involved in the only? Lgbtq politician I can think of is my senator. Christopher cinema so is it just you think because you were with a woman. Yeah I think that's exactly it is that there's this headline that wouldn't exist. Otherwise that the menagerie twice that simply doesn't play into a regular affair kind of headline I think also that there's still a lot that people don't understand about bisexuality and In it's a pretty new thing for people to even be grappling with. I I can't tell you. How many LGBTQ allies? I had to explain what bisexuality was especially being in a relationship so straight-forward garden television right now with a whole yes. I Joke district coming more. Mainstream had something to do with that ranking. Let me ask you About what you're doing now you're working to help other women get into office. So why don't you tell us a little bit about about Katie Hills next chapter? Yeah so the first priority for me is that I. I need to make sure that my experience doesn't deter other young women for running for office and that That something positive has to come out of this and so I started a pack called her time and we were able to to launch it with about a million dollars To support female candidates younger women Women of Color. Who are typically. You're not not traditional political candidates. The ones who may not have the financial resources at the political backing There longer shots often and they're the ones who need the most early support to be able to get off the ground and best represent the communities. Because I think it's that kind of systemic change that will truly get us to the place that we need to be. That sounds very promising. So well we wish you thank you. I think that used to your next chapter will be interesting for you. Thank you thank you happy. Probably thank you. Thanks for coming on. And we'll be right back storm Reid on how. She's feeling a lot more euphoria next season and her heart pounding new horror movie the invisible man next Monday. He was president. Clinton senior adviser and President Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel has warning about why Democrats are in danger of losing to trump in twenty twenty and a brand new oprah edition of view year deal thriller the invisible man. Elizabeth Moss plays a woman convinced that her evil ex boyfriend is playing mind games with her and her co Star Storm. Reid fields. Her pain literally take a look. You know what I think we need. I think reject kick down out and have a little girl's name Kate Sydney No. No no no no no James. I did not do that city I would never do. I love you. I would never do that. James. It was him. He's here. I already know enough how to read sixteen years old. Yes man you have some resume already. Twelve years a slave a wrinkle in time when they see us. Yes tell me how you decided to become an actress. At such a young age I started at three but I really like it was something that was meant to do and on the earth to do and it just came out at three because I I went up to my mom and I told her I wanted to be on TV. And I wanted to be a superstar so thankfully have a good enough mama where she wants to support me and then she's also a business woman so she said if you're trying to call out your future at three years old then we're going to try to have gotten to work with some incredible people even Devante Day and And other people but you say that you have another hero. Who is the hero? Oh I have so many heroes but I would have to say my mom or my hero because she has made so many sacrifices that you met another hero of yours do need a hero mine I met Miss. Beyond say deal It was around this time last year we were at the ACP awards. And I was trying to go say hi but I was scared so I actually got my friend and I will switch on. This is us to go with me. And I went up and I hate interrupting people's conversations so I just waited patiently and she kind of glanced at me and she interrupted her conversation and she was like. Oh my girl we love you. Oh those giant boxes full of got her her clothing lines in it and I. I was so grateful because I was scrolling on instagram every day. Oh show up like me. I have seen this amazing jealousy resentment. I'll take the champagne I well. You're also starring on you for you. Huge head incredible show It's extremely popular but it's about kids struggling with issues in high school and it's it's a very heavy Why do you think it's resonated so much especially with people around your age? I feel like I'm so blessed to be part of a show that is one entertainment and visually. It's beautiful in my opinion But like you said it is resonating with young people and I think Sam does an amazing job. Our Creator director and writer. He tries to bridge the disconnect between adults and young people because young people aren't always happy. Go lucky we're not always having fun and I feel like it's a beautiful way to depict what we're going through and I feel like that's why so many kids love it because if it doesn't relate to them it relates to somebody they know and I feel like I always try to be intentional with my projects that I try to be a part of and I feel like that. You forty is really isn't very mature for sixteen years old my good so let's go back to that horror film. We just saw a clip on the invisible man Elisabeth Moss. And you tell us what that's about. Yes so we know that the invisible man is something that people have loved her a long And it's one of universal's biggest monster films so I don't think we tried to alter it in any way we wanted to re imagine it and I feel like the way we did that was having Sicilia at the center of the film And she's struggling and we talk about gas lighting and domestic violence and toss toxic masculinity. So I think it goes back to the point of having Jon Rao film and having something that's entertainment and we'll have you on the edgier see but is also very grounded in relatable scary varies based on the original invisible man with rains movie where he can't say yes. It is because Ralph Ellison wrote a book called the man which was with left black population right. So it's a little different. Yes it is. Yeah yeah well. I'm a huge fan. And this one you actually get physical fight with the invisible man do how do you fight invisible man you do. It was challenging because I had to imagine the unimaginable so unlike there on the floor fighting myself in in fighting air yes it is very hard but I feel like I had to be very physical and very emotional at the same time which like really pushed myself. Because I didn't have anyone to tell me what to do. I had to really rely on my skills and thankfully it looks pretty good. In my opinion it's been very disappointing to be sitting at such a late bloomer. Your talent will go find incredible future ahead of you idea. Thanks to storm Reid invisible here. This Friday February twenty eighth. Thank you and to Michael. Eric Dyson ask you see headlines. Across your screen all day. But you're busy. What do you need to know? What's actually shaping your world. I'm Brad Milkey from ABC News. And every morning we start here. It was extraordinary for as watching here in Singapore. This is ABC News daily. Podcast a handful of stories just twenty minutes director Comey thanks for being with US. Newsmakers smart reporting taking straight to the heart of the story. Starting here listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP.

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10/8: BONUS EPISODE - The Too Hot For Sirius Episode

Hard Factor

53:49 min | 3 months ago

10/8: BONUS EPISODE - The Too Hot For Sirius Episode

"Would it is? Joe Man Randy savage and this factor in the risk no one. Does it better now? Yeah. Nobody does it better Repeat Myself told me something right down. Apart, factor radio presented by the Barstool News Network I'm will we got West Bark and pat the beef cassidy all everybody, all four members of heart factor in studio again today. And if you WANNA. Hear we know there was vice presidential debate last night. So We cover politics on some with some of our news coverage. If you WANNA hear the debate recap, wait to the end of this radio hour. We've got that coming up at the end but first. Let's talk about some other stories. and. hoppner stories. Weird Nah, I mean skidding. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. All right everybody sound sounds enthused. Fired up. We'll. Good good. Good. Lose. The first one is. It's a lively topic so I'm not sure if you heard this felt, but it was huge news yesterday. That Ken bone remember Him Mirror Cambodia's let's remind the listeners. So Ken Bone is a guy who wore a red button up sweater at the Second Presidential Debate and Twenty Sixteen Between Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump and he asked a question about their energy policy and then basically just was hilarious looking in America. He was he yes. He was also an undecided voter right that voter very well. Like undecided voter on the ticker and then it's like goof ball in the red sweater. Chubby moustachioed man yeah. We're in the button up. When he kinda did. He set the mold for when you can tell when a dude is gonNA go viral like. Like the earliest by by can see is the hide your kids hide your wife because we're. Out there that. Used to happen from just news clips that one kind of like the guy that was like, no, he was instantaneous overnight overnight celebrity me like texting your friend groups and you're like, are you want actions this guy? Turn on channel whatever this bone Guy Ken bone was the man will not no offense will but you could be cambone for our. Gladly, gladly play Kim bone in anything to like to. Play, though played to do bone I, I'm with PAT on that. Also guys not GONNA sue, with Jeff Jeff de la PFC were furious with how they're almost. Fifteen minutes on guys we got to get into this because this can up steep. So Ken Bone, he was he was overnight meam celebrity back in two thousand sixteen. Then he got canceled for being addicted to happening and Prego Porn. You don't say that Guy Jerks Awful Lot. He loves happening Porn Jennifer, Lawrence and Prego Porn, and then he and then he made some brash judgments about George. Zimmerman Trayvon Martin case. And he was canceled. Can you shine acidic light on that because we were talking about this at HQ last there when for some reason, two weeks ago Ken bones name came up. Hot Hot topic. Every election sees top but people were like isn't Ken Boone Peto someone's like, no, he's not. He's just horn guy he's there what was the chronic master? Hilarious hardcore porn guy he did a he did it asked me anything on Reddit and he just admitted to all of his. Like he he found he was a commenter he. Rented commies Reddit Thread Guy. He's talking about how much she loves like loves the look of. The door off of our with his right here on. Yeah. Exactly. He's nothing wrong nothing wrong with like little prego porn. The fascinating thing. Or? Soft spot for you. Your big happening guys look I feel bad. Every time I consume that happening because it is a violation I'm sure in bone does to don't know. Lawrence stuff was in tents. Bro, like the fabric Ev- everyone was like you know. Obviously. Affected in a negative way if your phone got hacked and you end up on the Internet but like Jennifer Lawrence we'd like she was shooting a hardcore porn four vivid. That's how much stuff like everyone like two or three picks Lawrence. I because I'm telling you re downloaded the birds of a feather. It didn't show me that it's like a seven Gig. Aberdeen one point, two of it is Jennifer Lawrence easily how many times have you downloaded the fascinates you times one time at its inception, and then you know I was thinking about it i. wonder if it is happening got famous 'cause there's was a lot of names in the fabric that you like. I don't know these people I was like, maybe it'd be fun to go back and look I guess. I could look at a list it'd be fun but I must. Downloaded, the second you were there recently, recently I want you to what you. Very recently it's wrong it was like a couple of weeks ago it's right. But guys Ken Bone, but he's not back because of his fattening love he's back in a big way because of who is voting for. This year in twenty twenty he's trending because he said the voted for Clinton in sixteen and that this morning he sealed in his mailing ballot voting. For Joe Johnson and you know basically that just set the fire interviewee Jordan's. He listened to that Joe Jorgenson interview it was so God damn good. That's why he should've added hard factor we did sell I mean we made Joe Look Great, Joel Magilla Great. But like we really help with that too so. I think the he's just. Being truthful mark thinks the he is lying and trolling, and so I would like to see the. Explain that I. First of all, I have no problem with Ken boom and I also have no problem with him voting for Joe Jorgenson. I'm the Promo with anyone voting for whoever they vote for. But I don't think he's being truthful about the Hillary vote twice a hillary vote. Which is interesting because when you read so that tweet that initial tweet like for Clinton Sixteen. Joe Jorgenson obviously going to get a reaction. To me I think just being truthful but I could see where people would think he is just trolling. So. Like let's take a look at some of the replies. So Kim bone basically like. The liberal people got very upset. So. One person replied saying. So in other words, you threw away your vote and virtually vote for trump cool story can to which Ken. Replies. In Illinois if it goes red, I will sign the deed to my house over to you keep voters shaming though it's great for democracy. Just fucking killed Paris Not Harris, and then the next person that replied zoom was seem more with a Hashtag go vote Avatar and he says Okay Red Sweater Guy Did obscurity really scare you that much and then bone replies. Hashtag go phot- for a profile PIC and you're gonNA try to vote. Shame me. Not feel about it to people shouldn't be shaming people for who they are voting for, or you know trying to get people to vote for one person. That's ridiculous. That's the goes against the whole voting process. So Kim, bone but wh-. But what I'm saying is It makes me wonder did ken bone no the he was going to get these overreactions was just going. Throw ash of course of course did I don't know about the pouncing. Probably the pouncing on the but of course, he knew he was going to get a reaction. Yes. Because he's his throat punching people in the replies well. Did, after the people know that he had voted for Hillary prior to this I, don't think so he was undecided voter right exactly so way. Look we can't presume to know what can what was in Ken bones head other than Hornets for pregnant ladies and thinking right Trayvon Martin shoot shooting was justified. We can't pretend to know what he was like whether he thought Oh the fact that I got famous at trump townhall. Is GonNa make me a trump guy or who's actually undecided. He could've voted Hillary I duNno. Trump townhall. It was definitely a slap to to the dams. So. We got we were tied on on. Control got. Percents live I. Think I think he voted for Hillary I think I think he's being truthful altogether but I think he knew he had to know who's going to Piss off by saying we can assume he was jerking offering some of these records. I think he's Joe Jordan. The. The only thing that. Okay. Okay. So First of all his red at guys is Stan Gibson Eighteen. The number eighteen big form. I guess that's how he likes girls because he's Ken Boone Eighteen on twitter. He's married I believe. Discerning unloading it. But. The, one thing that would lead me to believe that he did not vote Hillary was his specific comment on Trayvon Martin Sir? Specific comment on Trayvon Martin was it doesn't have to be a one or the other view here from what I read about the case shooting of Trayvon. Martin. Was justified broken what I've learned about Zimmerman the through statements interviews, etc. He was old shepherd I I feel like if. He says he's a tough guy. I. Think. Blinds thing saying he's saying he's a bad guy who did something that was technically legal. To me, my gut says that's a trump vote or not vote but I could be wrong. That's the only thing that would lead me to believe. You voted it doesn't matter. It doesn't fucking matter. Movement I just like to wonder. Let's start the guys. released. Taxes. Ken Bow needs to release his record right pursuit. Record Kim. From at least. Bone is this is bringing up this whole thing. A one. Zero they were talking about Kim Bono radio yesterday what was going on with that like her? Was the axe had the hate Cambone oh no. So They can't be happy with Kim Jones smashing people onto. I didn't break down that one tweet though the one person says like. Why throw your way your vote away and then they said like you're you like helping out trump is that what it said it's over a third parties. Vote for trump is basically what replies vote for Libertarian, is closer to vote for Republican in my mind's. Someone that votes libertarians probably battling more with whether they vote Republican or Libertarian. Democrat. Liberal. This woman and that's all they see we can't pretend the. puck though we can't pretend that like some like there is truth to that it isn't it is an assault on democracy in a perfect world. You saying don't criticize anyone don't vote sheep any. You shouldn't. But it is true that the two party system is fucked and if you really hardcore for the other team, you might be saying third party throw away I get that this is a litmus test. Basically, the people that freaked out are very, very, very much like partisan, right? Like it's a good litmus test, we shouldn't have a two party system should have a WHO, who's the holiest the now who cares race today? It's not like. People like Cambone Edward, Snowden who like kind of dance in the middle who who did things that are like, hell hell the leap they're putting those two guys in the same sentence Gabon just because he's like, Arizona's more of like a hero type. He did he did something courageous to bone dishes like Joe's. It's just like a bucket. Can vote he's. Also, media phenomenon. Could Grandmother addressed him on national TV I do to read Ken one other comment because I read his trayvon one. This one is a little bit less controversial but I think it's important. From a post four years ago swimsuits and belly's swelled together. Common from stand Gibson. Go useful human submarines referring to the PREGO ladies. I gotta I gotTa Watch my wife around right now. Classic Bone I, I always have the same fetishes can bone? Can you dog welcome to the bones? On your bones and on my favorite. Looks Dude. Twitter was when everybody WHO's Cambone? Fan was just trolling all the mad people by replying with the bone zone gift and it's just Kim. Bone smiling zones. Will. Zone it was own yard guy. Bone Yard. Was Up. So your take is that if you're that mad about Ken bone voting, your tear super bowl, you're super partisan either way. Right. So if you if you view that as as like I, fucking hate this guy for voting third party you're you're like, basically you're like you're one of those people and they exist on the right and the left because like fuck an independent fuck anybody who can't pick a fuck inside. Pussy. It's more like I thought he was ours. I thought Ken was ours. It's that Bullshit I've holy. Fuck you WanNa, vote Yes party both parties gangs? They'll they'll try to intimidate everybody if you don't fall in line. So it's like to me. It just shows that you're part of the gang if you're if you're trying to fuck with Kim ten bone. Is. I'm not a fairly either side trying to influence people to vote. That's pathetic. You do love where America's at though because a guy like Casey Campbell's Shikli. I'm talking about more for the Ken bones of the world. I'm talking about guys the just. Every time someone said go left. They went right and they ended up at the finish line before everyone else you know what I mean like Ken Bone did nothing whatsoever to deserve the massive amount of fame and admirably that he is. Just Ken. Bono now. Now he's like the Olympics like every four years he's back everybody you know what Kim Bones doing now? Yeah just. A couple of months before like an election year, he just needs to get his twitter game on. The, the best part about the trending twenty-five thousand tweets probably twelve thousand of were people saying we didn't need to check in with Ken Bone. We made it trend. Famous. I wonder if he's getting paid is you think Kim Bones I do wonder that now if he's if he's being totally facetious I, wonder if it could be getting us. From a campaign now that would be. Jimbo needs to release his voting. I wasn't meeting that women like. Ken. Boone. Doing product endorsements like who's pit you know that's what it's about right if. She paid by a campaign makes more sensitive product. He should do like toilet paper something for sure and if you can to go away, you gotta find like a goofy you're looking guy to replace them you gotta out. Can you're out of out bone the bone man? The. New. A new next year looking idiot stupider outfit. That's hard though because his parents really took the first step forum when they named him with their last being shown. On a good name of. Yeah. Yeah Ugly. Guy Goofy gas named Joey plugs in their. Lots it there's nothing else on campus. Here we'll hear from him again. He's by the way he's doing now he's doing media round. He's GonNa try to. Factor show yeah. Election season how do you think Ken Bones? Wife has reacted to this because she did not sign up Lewinsky Mary Bono. Maybe she loves it. Maybe she's like what if she's the man is man she's she's she's kind of the consistent pregnancies she's forced into. She's an Irish twins buccaneer. Yeah you know either apparently they're high school sweethearts. That's nice. I mean that if you're ken bones lady, it's got to be frustrating when your spouse gets famous rate especially if you specifically married a guy so that. Only A. Never happen you chose the dude was middle the hardest. On You Bet She'd probably not looking for the limelight man advocate. She likes I, think she may be maybe on shoes driving these these throat punch replies that he's going for because he's got somebody in his corner that's Fan del that. Someone's pumping up this conference. Dire. So he's got some confidence on twitter heather bown. It's just gotTA BE? Forever. because. You know like it doesn't matter how you get famous like no matter what like there's there's groupies for every type of fame and there's bone groupies. Dude the bones that's what I'm saying there's bone zone. The. Interest fucking. You Fuck with Ken Boone on twitter people bone you to death in the replies they'll just. He's Definitely got some doughnuts hitting them up in the damn I would love to. DMC sled in there. Are. Guys let's take it over to our next story. So this one is an interesting one. Always make sure that you change your twitter password or your instagram pass for your facebook. Password. If if you move on from a job, I think about this all the time because like. Specifically like in the business that were in like you have intern social media messing with your password same thing in the music business like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen people all of this password right and then I remember like when I worked at a red light management, the like my intern task was like making sure to put a cool top eight for Dave, Matthews, my space and like they were very serious like do not do never put yourself in the top of Dave's I mean it was that you have that kind of power that was my space days now. I I don't know how much you can do like that it's US committing fraud. If you're tweeting cancer are deathly you work in to get keys to him right so that you can get more exposed every time pat yells at the interim word yes. Yes. Yes. I have other dirt on like nexium. Lateral But no guys, Katie Hill Katie Hill no not like Epstein don't twenty two year. Yeah Oh. Gosh, through that was. That was a scheme. His whole thing was the dirt on people. All right. Strike that from the record please Katie who is she? She was a US representative in Congress from California that resigned last year because of a little scandal came out because remember the. Shoes. Cal Cunningham everyone kissed them all over on your own staff mark. Then the tattoos cutting hair naked shit, right. So easily the most bizarre pictorial to come out of any politician ever. So scandal probably the weirdest one. Yeah. Yeah. One of the one of the photos dropped is This is fine. It's her naked taking a major bong replica hughhewitt Hewitt. But the problem is look at the that's the that's the Nazi Iron Cross. She's got there on the Mons pubis right during the vaginal area Gosh Yeah. That's not a mistake. Yeah. She's looks like it's really low quality to that was probably most. She imprisoned. Looks like it looks like she was claimed as someone's old. Lady. Who happened to be a biker? It's not a great. Yeah. Unfortunately for Katie on that one, but the other pictures are also terrible. Anyway so What Was Fine Right and then there's one of her like kissing a female. Staffer, while she's married in that bottomless. Out Find it in a hotel room I mean I guess that's finest. The really bizarre one is her naked brushing. The hair of another staffer different staffer that she's she's she's totally nude the staffers fully clothed and she's just behind her brushing hair. In a really bizarre scenario if you if you take into consideration that she was the person in the most power. She's the boss she was. Yeah. A major position of power there. She's running around naked. and. Kissing. Her to put her clothes on. She's the boss maybe she was doing like one of those old naked voting things. Hey, Pat Pat. Can you mentioned who's taking all these pictures? Her husband, the real abuser allegedly. What Katie Hill is. Last year because this stuff came out, she essentially said it's with a broken heart the today announce my resignation from Congress. This is the hardest thing of the do but I believe is the best thing for my constituents community in our country and yes, she essentially said that a a shitty and screw you Jews. Well. You know you can't really explain their way out of the audience to. Cry. To mark, she didn't need to write it. But. She claimed that this was wrench porn thing her. ex-husband when she was in the process of divorcing ad leaked these photos. Who was also screwing her staff and and that was? Composed by husband getting in on a too, right? Yes. They were both sexually abusing staff allegedly. Leases. Yeah. Seinfeld with the dentist officer that actual couple of of dot good-looking doctors in your life. Yeah. We issues in a throttle. He knew it was that kind of vibe which is really great that that got to Congress like I think that's huge for just sexual progressives that you know you're they're still getting really freaky nasty while they're congresspeople. I really appreciate you ever need to worry about Congress people abusing people sexually that I think that's going to continue in America like indefinite sort like it has. Start just want to make a clarification there I was not praising anyone abusing anyone sexually will was more saying the freakiness as what I was praising not not the sexual abuse allegations. Staffers have a problem with let's get to that. All right. So today I was saying you should change your passwords. REP Representative Katie. Hill so she has to accounts where she has her her congress account and then her personal account and her congress accounts started tweeting today randomly. From a staffer. So the the first tweet was Katie's far staff here. Disappointed in so many folks including Elizabeth Moss at Bloom House plus as a film production company and Michael Sites men regarding today's announcement. Now, the announcer that they're talking about is that a film adaptation of Katie Hills Madame Glorify Kale. will be coming out with Elizabeth Moss starring Bloom House producing what what film another artistic value. Yeah I wonder wonder if I wonder if they're gonNA get sued and Tyler a director of Judy's right fuck you man. From the direction cuties comes fuck you. Story, I'm. Okay blunt houses has. Established himself as the numerous horror and genre producers in the world dated like the new get out did the new Halloween? In the new get out or vice versa. But yeah, I guess they're doing this thing and the staffer was pissed so. Staffer continue to tweet about ten tweets or so saying, this is an incredibly sensitive situation. We appreciate the instinct to defend our former boss and lgbtq plus women who faced abused from her husband. What happened to Katie Hill shouldn't happen to anyone. But this moment requires more nuance on Katie Hill story our story it's also one of workplace abuse and harassment Katie. Hill can be both a victim and a Predator and staff can experience severe consequences for speaking out against their powerful boss. So it sounds like maybe this girl getting her hair brushed were the girl making out of the several staffers that were sexually abused by her and her husband Yeah Right. Okay. Yeah. It doesn't sound also that ends with hill was never investigated by the House ethics. Committee. Nor has she been held accountable by anyone other than herself we encourage everyone to reflect deeply before taking her word at face value thousand smart on her part. See The reason she didn't get investigated by the House ethics. Committee is because it's full of old white men that don't like to see naked young women in their workplace. They like to see him at hotel rooms when they were prostitute. So she was just walking around DC in a nude, and so they couldn't the right place to not get in trouble for Swiss. That's why she resigned. Honestly, she could have spun it and been like, okay. These photos leaked and I love weed and the Nazi thing would have been hard to explain away but the yard she it but she got lady, she got Old Lady She deserves in blockbuster films to. Verges. Housing Sturgis. This does is paint John and Janice. McAfee. A pretty good life light because their staffers who own their accounts while they're in jail or tweeting out like they're not even arrested in praising them, and then they're like finally like right there arrested but we're going to keep tweeting for John Janice like apparently the McAfee treat their staffers a little bit better than Katie Hill but I think you know what you signing everybody does mark you're done. Going into the McAfee household, it's assumed that you've seen the dock and you know how he feels and you know that you know that's a real freaky nasty sexy situation in well okay. Film this movie make about Katie Hill are they gonNA make sure to include all these details? So you know going in to working with her in the future that you will be abused by. This is GonNa be a revenge porn thing. That's probably what Aaron t you. There's no reference to the iron, Cross. Reference. The Iron Cross Dude. Cancel about is it going to be an now because they can't do it now with the staff protesting who were abused? Why don't you have to cancel it? It was pretty risky move in the first place to make to fugger adapt to the film. Vision, there's some other subjects they could have gone with. Absolutely I guarantee you. It's I mean it's a huge story. If you saw the photos and Google Katie Hill picks if you say these photos and your things using congress is the only time you've seen pictures like this. With with a member of Congress, it's a big. Leader. Spring. Good. Good picks. On here well, Anthony Weiner was a big time shape of my boner guy. So he wears underwear and then he would just shape of his Boehner was the pick you sent and he sent it to like fourteen year old girls like in twitter. DEA Memoir the shape of my. SHAPE. Of Water. It's it's. He said hundreds and hundreds of. Years you can't, track all. and He. Me He. Got In trouble a bunch of times doing it. But he was kind of giving himself deniability like he could have been like. One of my parents. European Oh, I didn't even notice the shaving. My boner was was exposed I have underwear on. The Katie Hill thing that's different. But yeah, well, we'll see what happens I guaranteed revenge porn situation are like that's the angle of which is not cool. She can be a victim in a Predator I believe. For also victims in and. That is being published and they can't make the movie. There's a lot of victims in the story. Movie they'll make it but the. Be Rightfully sued by the people there depending on they might. They might ask the staff for. Yeah help. That's awesome. Absolutely going to. They better pay this paid for this they're putting all their fucking horrible woman haircut needs to. Be You need to call and talk to the woman that got haircut when Katie Hill is hundred. Credible that. was. Paid. Cutting staffers, hair while making you like how do you sell any more? In the room like. fucking weird. How weird and you're like a twenty year old girls just draggers starting politics. Yeah. There's no you have no chance against. Rosen when you put it that way that makes a lot more sense because that was a Weinstein move the Weinstein move. was super being. Let me get. Drought my towel I'm nick I'm comfortable with my newness. Aren't you comfortable with my new Louis? Every spring three Predator move naked and you deal with that sticks that's number one that's one Predator audio feel. How do you feel about me being naked? Yeah. That sexual not. All shapes and sizes and SEXTON and I. It wasn't. A haircut? It's not the worst, but it's still not good. She reside. Not, pout will yeah this. This one is a very disturbing gonNA warn you if you you know. It's a disturbing story so. Let's take a break with that tees. Let's take a quick break and come back right or yeah, we could. Sure. We'll take a quick break is we'll be back listen to hard factor radio barstools power eighty, five, zero, six, hard factor news team You join us at some point during that first half, we have a podcast, it's every day. It's Daily News podcast spend thirty to forty minutes of the news you need to know for the day comes out every night before you wake up every morning before you wake up to make sure to check that out like in subscribe, and we will be right back. alrigh- welcome back to Harvard factor. And I as I said before the break, the story is a little disturbing. So few you know if you get disturbed by some fucked up shit a fair warning. So guys back in two, thousand sixteen. Stick around but stick around this. Great. It's it's very interesting story. Back into two sixteen complete. Psychopath. I mean this, we need a new word to describe with the stupid. His name is Joel Guy Junior he he joe guys Yoga Junior. He killed his parents Joel guys senior sixty one and Lisa Guy, who's fifty five in their home like the day after Thanksgiving. So what happened is he was at school at the Louisiana State University. He'd been there for like ten years just taken classes to suck in them dry sucking on the teat of of mom and dad they finally were like listen enough is enough Joel. Broke thanksgiving as often happens in. Yeah you. Can't do more than six years at a state school unless you get a doctorate, it's just it's not acceptable. Really. Yeah. Yes. So No more money Joel Your Dad and I would like to retire on don't want your spongy ass to be sucked in dry anymore data Joel. Joel. Guy. He was ten years. It took him the these poor fucking. Parents had this conversation up leading up to like the last five. Thanksgiving's before. Right exactly. So what he did is so he went back to this Knoxville Tennessee Knox County he went back at Thanksgiving and then he brutally murdered them he stabbed them to death then he basically dismembered them chopped up their bodies he put them in like Tupperware he his this is the list he made. All right. This is the killing. So on this list that the F. B. I. uncovered. And Stopped. Working at a picture of Mugshot or you're not gonNA laugh because the picture is of the pot on the stove was what he was using to boil his mother's had. To get rid of the evidence. Yeah. He wanted to dissolve the bodies to get rid of evidence, but his list that he made is super creepy fuck. Guy Ten. Number one get knives multiple a get carving knives. Small pieces get a sledgehammer to crush bones, bring blender and food grinders grind meet get bleach. And you know to get plastic bag for you know is in his handwriting is just. And he's doing this for what to get to get their money. So they had a life insurance policy. He also had a list of all their assets. Let me pull that up real quick. How does this fucking guy? He was twenty eight the time that this happened. So his trial he just got convicted of you know basically everything they put up against them he wanted to be he wanted to get the death penalty, but the obviously doesn't want to go to jail. With with with a list like that. So I'm a list guy I keep lists on on paper. I don't my left on the computer to do list, but you know. He's paper Guy to Pat I'm. Careful. When I'll write out what the actual task I need to get done is I try to not sure it hand it so I don't get confused. Pat. Paperless his the detail get sledgehammer for which to crush up bones seems a little bit. It's. Over the top, some things don't interrupt down you could've just wrote down sledgehammer member. To Cross reference. A lot of subtlety with this guy and. The paper though is better than Google these days because Google, they'll get you technically you could burn the paper I busted once or you're going to have to pasta once on on when I went home for college for winter break and I made a paperless of things I needed to do before a house back in the car to go Virginia Tech and one of the things was delete milk hunter original Mel Hunter Porn from wire on. My parents found out lists and asked me. Else. Does analyst how do you think it was written out mark? How do you think specifically you're not yourself was written out. Delete probably like name to the scene raise hunter does Milton. Folder. and. I need that my mom came to me one time. It was like she looked nice. She's like you need to clean up the computer downstairs. It's like, what do you mean? She's like you know exactly what? You just slowed the combined slow I wrong the computer. What other with a hard driver window in a towel just just right right to the local drive. Yeah. I can't get event someone else. So that was computer paper. Deal with this guy, they're going to go to jail. So yeah. So he made he was trying to this five, hundred, thousand dollar life insurance. He wrote down a list of all assets like the house you know like if he he wrote like if he's Dad I get the whole thing he had some half sisters that obviously just Meant to get caught situations where I mean I. Guess That's what I was saying because he's no he's over he fuck know he's he's crazy and stupid. So the Knox County Sheriff's office said that it was like he said quote the most horrific thing I've encountered in police work in my life. I mean, like I said, he literally like decapitated is. Dan Crime scene to boil it. Yeah So. Yeah, pretty bad. Sorry about that but penalty for him. We all agree this was we should do this on the radio. Well, it's a crazy story. May Boils Moms do you want to? On. The husband has set up a trip wire at the top of his basement stairs for twenty seven year your long 'cause. That's much letter. Okay. He's driving his wife. Sent in by Heart Ohio member and Catholic priests, a one of our one of our listeners. That things happened in. Pennsylvania guys. Sixty year old William grossly no, but it's yeah exactly. A. Junior. Allegedly, set up a fishing line tied to metal hooks three inches above the doorway to his basement stairs got that thing nice and tight, and then it was like, hey, how can you get me that thing in the basement? This was right. Outside of Pittsburgh and Westmoreland PA and when police. Arrived on the scene because the. Tripped on the trip wire and she said she felt backwards luckily I had fifty nine year old wife Laura. Dink writer Danka strider whenever and She said if I'd fallen forward and. She said I would definitely would have died if I felt fordham the cops got there there were like first of all this was very intentional and probably the most egregious attempted murder seeing we've ever seen and described the stairs is like Ten stare straight down and then a small landing and then three stares straight down to the side and then concrete and they're like she would have. been completely just a massive broken bones. Matches up with Dang strategies a mugshot he looks ruin pleased with himself. He thought he was going to get away with it. Put the islets into the wall though that's That's evidence. PADRES UP IF. Was He was going to wait till she fell and died and then removed them and putting them up but he needed her weight to not rip the trip wire he had to anchor it in so that so so taught that she just tripped and fell to her death which she did trip she tripped and fell backwards to put too strong at bounced her backwards bounce their back I mean. Chances are he was going to have to finish the job I think he was hoping that she may be. That's a man. You know what I mean like yeah, he thought but probably the correct one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah he's just setting himself up for a cold blooded murder pillow over the head whilst you got seven broken bones. There's a couple in. In right outside of Manhattan. The they went on a walk on these cliffs go up the Hudson River. You see it and the the dude shoved his wife off but it wasn't far enough for her to die. So she was just very angry and injured. Badly, burned look like there's a will ferrell. Sure What a piece of Shit? What did it say anything about her like being terrible wife or terrible or she? She did say everything's though she said, she said this wasn't the first time you tried to harm her which is not a surprise and that she just distraught because you don't expect your husband of twenty seven years to like. Murder you and So she's having a hard time which is not good for him because he's on five hundred, thousand dollar bond for attempted murder and I'm assuming she's not going to put the house up. Night. I should've left after the first murder attempt. Yeah. He's gone show. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's it though which is good time because we gotta talk about. The vice presidential debate. So let's get into it. We are joined by Internet Cam who was getting tweets off on the bien account during the vice presidential debate can thank you for joining us. Going on guys happy here. tweet like a maniac and some good likes their. Own I I get going on that Serotonin hit from a couple of LAX at. It's hard. It's hard to stop. Yeah they sure to follow hardback news and Barstool News Network to get all the best moments from every debate. So guys what were the best moments from this VP debate tonight. I. Think you know. Well I think it's pretty obvious what the best moment was and it wasn't the debate itself whatsoever it was the third party that joined the debate unexpectedly the the fly You know we're lying we're lying to ourselves when we're getting heito politics were liars. But but we're good liars and and we try to make it fun. But when a fly comes in and dominates the debate I think that I think that pretty much. Says it all this why would? God Damn dominating and swept the Internet. So hard that is going to do same thing to the movie the fly go Jeff Goldblum that the ocean spray guided to fleetwood Mac. League can boned us, which is just being himself. He wanted to heart the fly. The fly of the movie is GonNa, hit the top of like Netflix or whatever charge right the flies the twenty twenty Ken bone I got a question though does the fly kind of act like a alert the Goldfish does that mean that pence is the winner? because. The fly shows pence. Somebody else tweeted that it's the octopus at the also question. Also. Wanted Little Historical and Twenty Sixteen Tina Fly landed on Hillary Clinton she lost to act Or isn't a fly also like the sign of the devil that's not good right and so mark. Buff. Chardonnay. What it was announced that trump had covid I'm mark know that you saw us because we were on twitter at the same time right? Right. I've never seen Moore Satanic imerys responding to dress tween a lot. Why can we get rid of the panic people? Sleeping. On the trump campaign a fly lands on you in. Indoors. The only fly for miles, I think that. Snake Goat Flyer, the top three satanic things. So I don't know the fly was incredible though he was he clearly won the show or he or she. flies. Genders but It one this just in the fly has died guys unfortunately, but it lasts long flights of natural causes. Do you guys think that it's cool that pens could just sit there for two full minutes without touching it. For, do you think it's crazy he had a helmet on of hair. Exactly. Exactly Pat. He needs to lean into whatever like hair product hairspray he uses is like to make merch on the side for his personal back and then also he needs to leave you meet. The fly thing is a joke and then it'll be a pro a pro for him right now it's a very big con I was GonNa when I was watching it, I was gonna I was thinking to myself if Carmela tells pence about the fly, she gains major points with me. She does she didn't they were like it's like it's like it's like helping brother and he's got a book. She says, you have a flight or etiquette. Pence dealt to fly and I think that. You'd the fly we'll. Yeah you take his hair product and you bring it to the NFL. Cte Is gone. So you're telling me that's just how solid is top. Of the helmet. Wall. That's your sheer shot. It was incredible. It was it was so white I. Mean it was like blinding white like the like the light of heaven it was. So I'm surprised that flies legs didn't immediately shatter when it landed on his head. Breaks a ninety degree angles. The flies body's just stuck on his head. Yeah. I thought it was subtly while. Stairs so postures what else is there to talk about on that debate it's the fly. It's really. were. Okay. On that note, though it was a dog barking in the background through right there was snug I stepped out for a smoke. So I missed the dogs for someone bring up to speed on the dog like. Like around the last quarter of the debate just a random dog from like backstage just started barking like every like fifteen seconds left that Dalian some some producer brought their dog. It was it was like a fucking farmhouse wise Doxa. reporters. UTAH. There's no way. Any production person is getting their dog through the door I'll tell you not I guarantee and astral news debate I'll tell you who's dog it was. It's a pence or it's a Harris dog I give me. The only people that could get a dog in there. Yeah. You're right wars curious over the head director maybe but yeah, security daughter. Meyer. Last Thirty Dogana left-field. Given much credit to service dogs. If you're saying that one is just on on its biggest night on its biggest stage. Parking it might be a security dog and it smelled the we'd Mike Pence because he is fucking is. Like someone wakes. Farts and his is all night. Sensitize, didn't adjust all the times. You know he's got. He's got some type of like A. Some going on with this is yeah. He needs some eyedrops man like. What is no I feel bad for him because if he did have pink eye like there's nothing more embarrassing than pink eye or a cold sore because it's herpes shit in your face and I I've had both of them on. The last you want, it's hard. I gotta say it's hard to explain off for a guy that had fly landed on his head and his I look like that. He was an impressive debater. For Fakes. Elements. His dogs bark in the back again. His dog probably mustard in it's the ship particles in his eye. And as the Goddamn fly on his head and he'd still did a pretty good job. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Pence. Harris. Dog or it was if it was a service dog West Disturbance Doug wanted out of their employment contract and they saw big opportunity to get out because you know if you're a dog, how do you quit? I would have I would have pence on my debate team. Any dad give him some. What was Rodeo like the? Cleared is or whatever yeah. But like the the row one, the intense one but yeah, I mean like he remembered everything he was supposed to bring up that made in. A little like half Cochran show. Yeah. He literally hit every single gop talking point that we did and he would and they all pretty for the most part worked pretty well. Right now I'm also a good debater she sidestepped both they both avoided a lot of the questions but they both like they built a good but I was surprised by how well Penn State Penn swinging plagiarism comment I thought he was going to be dirty the. Can. But it was. Plagiarised strategy was I'm curious about this because I will, as you called it pen seems like a better debater in terms of just being more skilled in A. Number Times Kamla. Didn't have a rebuttal, but I was curious is that because she never rebuttal or was her strategy to not muckraker because the last debate like strategy to be the I'm talking was up strategy or was that just her pandering and I think it was both pat because there are situations where she didn't reply because she didn't have an answer and those ones were court packing. Waffling on green new deal and undermining the vaccine the confidence in the vaccine on though or Yeah Well, the ACP stuff was was odd just it was an odd back and forth but on the other ones though I think that she just maybe you know she was trying to just take control. By by jumping to a different topic, but the but some, she didn't have an answer for. Right, I thought perhaps she was trying to do the. Let him hang himself thing. Degree both God each other a bunch of times. But the difference was like a penn student like hesitate. She has if like a few seconds each time and then she did well and. I mean it didn't. It didn't move the needle come on I mean both. It's GonNa move the ball sides on exactly and Blah Blah what? I. Really Miss was as not having like trump just bashing someone they're like, honestly it was outside of the animals it was born. and. I missed trump just belittling badgering like I think it's not presidential. I think he's an asshole but I need to see it on TV. You know what I mean. Yeah. especially with wwe having fans in the stands but let me let me ask you a big question. Here it is. event. When he's onstage Oh. Yeah. Big Time. I still can't get over this shit. So like how is it regardless of your politics re regardless of whether you believe in global warming or not which if you don't in my opinion fucking asshole that's my opinion. How is it? That trump? The German campaign is still towing the dirty forest floor rhetoric for the cause of the wildfires in California saying like I, both sides I, think they're point on that one is like it's not just you can't just say we're going to go carbon neutral and they'll never be another wildfire. You have to do some type of management as well. Yeah. She won that round. He was like there's the similar cases. One hundred. In the Greek alphabet out of hurricanes she i. GotTa missile stuff. I. Don't know if she did I feel. Let's see. Let's see what said about climate change. Well Yeah. Let's share part, right. This horrible quote. Climate changing will follow the science on. Climate. Change that's. Nice, all big industries had a fucking tell Donna and his ass, and if said that climate change is really oil industry. Now, let it rip the thing that happened with the with the climate change discussion was that he countered with the green new deal. So they were kind of like neutral. Point we said he would hit right right. So like they they like. So although Kamla got him with that the climate is changing and stuff like that. Then he gets her with the well, you've waffled so much on fracking in your approach to energy general that you can't nothing you say can be trusted until it's like Use Alive Things Kamla did was when she said like Let me finish if we can get that. Then we gotta Yes she she was strong with those. She didn't do it that often but the finishes were pretty strong. Hey, this is the first time. I've ever read entering cam on the pod When we're dumb this, I want to hear your General Opinion Kim we like maybe thirty seconds online lighting makes. We can have a conversation. Okay. Okay. Her armored year old strong. My balls on. She said that I was scared I was like I want her to finish a she can fit like she did good there. That was that was very. Effective that both both solid debaters can watch closing thoughts. All right. A couple closing thoughts I thought Kamala at times sounded a little bit arrogant snarky. But I do agree with pat that she made a choice not to not to be too combative but still just the way that she came to me I thought trump sounded pence sounded more presidential i. wish that he was trump. I wish she was the president does he sounds album better Than the president but my big takeaway today is that we are just in like a post platform world. No one has a platform of any sort and no one will pin themselves down on any single issue and whether it was Kamala with court packing or. Cam. Kamla Malarkey our E my ass can't say it right. You're the you're the. fucking guy and you can't even say the vice president's name some brain larva. Regional Dialects Kamla. Bra. Thirty. Seconds Cam. Everyone is too afraid to declare any sort of positions and that's just the reality route learning a we we should have to vote tomorrow. Do it. All right. Sage words from Intern Caja, side from the pronunciation. So yeah, work on that by. Everybody follow at heart factor news at Barstool News. Network, we got it. We got to get going. Thank you. We'll talk again tomorrow. Have a great fucking day. To US early in the spring when I set out to go to work up in the woods and North Ontario, the unemployment office said, they'd send me through with the Abba and the survey grew in those black flies the little black flies always a black fly. No matter where you go I'll die with the black fly pigging mind bombs in. On. North. Old. Well, the man black told me was the captain of the crew. He said I'm going to tell you boys what we're GONNA. Do they want to build a power down? So we must find a way to make the lab flow round the other way and those black flies little black flies off always a black fly. No matter where you go I'll die when the black fly pigging mind. Tara. I O north. AM. So we survey to the East we survey to the West. We tried to make our minds up just how to invest in the lab lab. What shall I do? I'm all but going crazy.

Ken bone twitter Katie Hill Pat Pat Hillary Clinton Ken Boone Donald Trump Ken Ken bones Kim Congress Kim bone America mark Mike Pence Katie Jennifer Lawrence Zimmerman Trayvon Martin
Katie Hill Im trying to model behavior we want from men

Stephanie Miller's Happy Hour Podcast

33:24 min | 5 months ago

Katie Hill Im trying to model behavior we want from men

"Our God. Biz exciting. Happy happy hour former Congresswoman Katie Hill who I've been trying to get on four. Katie Good Morning. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. I well listen I met you. You probably don't remember I met you at a fundraiser for all the congressional candidates here. So it was only a minute, but I got to meet you and I know there's coronavirus going on but I've been reading your book and I just WanNa I wanNA. Hug. You WanNA climb through I want to hug you I. WanNa hold you a little bit. I thought I. I'll say I'll take the virtual. I mean, we've all been having a shitty twenty twenty but oh, my God. Katie you I just I. I don't even know what to say about I've been I've been reading your book at night after watching the are ensued week we can just I haven't gotten through. Some heavy reading. Keep pausing to. Cry. I don't even know where to start because I love that you are. So you continue to not be scared your outspoken about this Jerry Falwell thing. I feel like sometimes I'm like the hypocrisy is going to kill me. So thank you for speaking out about the double standard. I love your speech on the floor. Congress when you out. Yes. Talk about that a little bit because you just said the New York Post likes to label me and Ex. Paul. But doesn't call Falwell and ex cuckold religious leader. Okay. Let's talk about how she used to his wife in this whole thing can we start with that? On my Gosh Oh my gosh just. Flat out blaming her when it's like, okay, they're they're. Pieces. Of evidence that had been verified by routers right This isn't Reuters Reuters. This isn't like the New York. This isn't like the New Yorkers. This isn't this isn't ren state. This isn't the daily. Mail. This is a legit publication that you know has taken the steps to verify this, and he is just straight up denying it and saying Oh this is my wife's fault and she's really sorry for what she did. On, Bro like just you know th, the hypocrisy is overwhelming. We know that this goes much deeper that there's extortion involved and Michael Cohen I mean, the whole is just a wild matt so and you take pictures. and. Pictures pictures something you're not. Familiar with mixture. Of the fact that he's got. That he's not, he's he's not even labeled the way that he should be is. It shows you exactly what we're dealing. Yeah I love your you. You said twelve draft tweets about Jerry Falwell junior is just too much and then you're just like stf you go back to the Corner Jerry. I, mean. Okay so she will rise as the book it's like you brave and beautiful and. I don't want to start first of all unlike most men you were up front right away about saying I made some mistakes first all your tiny baby can I just say, what are you now thirty? How old are you? Thirty three, thirty, two I just turned thirty three days ago. Avi Birthday Happy Birthday. But you've been very as you say here in this particular interview reflected on the mistakes I. Made I know my actions hurt people I resigned from my position power to do the necessary work. You. Okay. You founded ever even since then her time pack committed to sporting women running for up especially as they face their doubts and fears that past may be used against them as mine was to me. It feels to me like none of these men. Do the work they blame other people they don't quit. There's a complete double standard. As you said, in your resignation speech, there is a likely sexual assaulter and rapist in the Oval Office. Who Still? Right you got yeah I feel that way completely and I think I think part of what I'm trying to do with my own actions is is just two. People are GonNa make mistakes right and we've come into this era of me to that. So necessary and that is really bringing us to acquaint that that has to happen where we're reconciling what we tolerate it as acceptable behavior for so long what society we tolerated for as except behavioral, we brushed offer we made excuses for we. Simply ignored. And it's causing this kind of. You know this this backlash for all kinds of things including something like what what I did and and and that needs to happen, and so what I'm trying to do is set an example for how we want people to respond and what what is it. to try and say, okay, I I've made mistakes but that doesn't erase every done in that doesn't mean that I can't re enter and be productive and be part of you know. Like helping society a better place. So I'm trying I'm trying to model behavior. I. Guess that we would want from men who who come to be in similar situations in the future Jerry Falwell's didn't follow my my example but I guess I wasn't expecting that talk. About people and can I just say you know the fact that you were the first like openly bisexual member of Congress? Your bravery let me take. Well, there's some personal for all of us, but the personal part for me the last woman I was in love with that, I was going to marry I guess would be. You would have to say was bisexual but didn't wasn't didn't Wanna be open with her friends family anything that's why it didn't largely it didn't work out and so. Your bravery. He's going to make a lot more people brave just. So let's start with that that you've always been open. So and I hate to take you through what happened but some people is you are listening that don't know they're like, wait a minute I forget what? Exactly? Tell tells it your words what happened because the book is very powerful and you're very honest in the book about what happened but tell your story just briefly as to what happened why you had to resign. So, Short short shortest version is that well, the shortest at all kind of complete version is that I tried to leave my use of has been shortly before the election when I did he told me that if if I did he would you know he would ruin me six months later after I'd been sworn in I decided I couldn't take it anymore. I needed actually leave so I did. And then a couple of months after that, he made good on his promise and rules. Naked images of me that I didn't even know had been taken let alone without you know without my consent, he hit apparently sent them to add to these Republican office into these right wing publications. and. They started getting leaked bit by bit. In those images, it revealed that I had had an affair with a with a campaign staffer. While she was somebody who works on my campaign and I'm you know she she starts one of the first people who worked on my campaign and I've talked about this in other interviews, I it didn't feel like a subordinate. Kind of boss relationship had another jobs just did not. You know that's the mistake that I made right but it the the revenge porn, the cyber exploitation aspect of it just kind of. It was too much and it was definitely I decided that I wanted to You know I didn't want to be a distraction it'd be a liability we're moving into impeachment You know the toll that it was taking the intuitive of what else was coming the fact that I just gotten out of this relationship in the emotional. Rollercoaster I guess that was going through. That was just I decided. I need. The best thing for me to do was to resign and that's a decision that has grappled with. Beforehand, ever since by. I mean as I and I love the story I you know Nancy Pelosi is also a sort of a friend in hero of mine too. But she urged you not to quit and I love that story and I love the story of everybody from. Your Roommate Lauren Underwood. Just supporting you doing that whole sister would around you in saying you know they support whatever you WanNa do but they didn't want you to quit have you have you had regret since then and gone? Oh, maybe I shouldn't have or how how have you dealt with that? Yeah I certainly has. The especially when we lost that sea ice. Naive. Because we'd had such victory we we'd won by nine points I really did not think that it could flip back to Republican and I just thought that you know people had had made their voice clear in terms of wanting a Democrat in office to and I I, didn't realize. I didn't I didn't realize how much it was about. ME. Or the campaign that we'd run I didn't realize that I didn't put enough stock in how difficult the turnout Baxter would be in in a march election or march to May special election and It was the first all man. Election following at the beginning of it and There are a lot of factors involved. Yeah. When that happened I was like Oh, my God, how did you know I? It totals with by I made the wrong call you can't. You can't go backwards like that right you can't. Well. So the only thing you can do move forward. I but you know what? Katie I gotta say I echo what knits from everyone from Nancy Pelosi said to you or not done when you had that the going away party you are not done. You're back here already fighting for women that are dealing with revenge porn like you did you already. You were what like four when you were executive director of people assisting homeless. I mean twenty four. Okay. Same. Almost twenty four. Yeah. That's what I said toddler on. There's many paths to find your family story whichever way you choose tracing your family generations back with a family tree uncovering your ethnicity with ancestry DNA it's easy to get started with ancestry dot com. There was dispute about my grandpa right whether Bolles or Ukrainian right that makes a difference. Yes. Okay. Ancestry Dot Com tells you where your ancestors were from an ancestries billions of records, millions of families. Let's you discover your personal stories you can. Find a famous relative. Perhaps, a photo of a great grandma is girl researching. Your history is actually a fun activity for the whole family the stories you learn about your shared pass, bring you closer together. It can reveal ethnic origins, provide historical details that bring unique family stories to life trace. The past of your recent ancestors learn how and why your family move from place to place around the world. I. Assumed it was running from law. I was wrong. Okay. No other DNA tests deliver such a unique interactive experience start exploring your family story today head to my url at ancestry dot com slash liberal to get to your ancestry DNA kids start your free trial that's ancestry dot com slash liberal do it now? But. First of all I'm sorry again, I. Know You've acknowledged mistakes via this wasn't breaking house rules. You weren't a congress person yet. You've said you you love this woman I mean the fact I loved what you said in your resignation speech you said you're resigning in part because of the double standard you said I'm leaving, but we have men who've been credibly accused of intentional acts of sexual violence and remain in boardrooms on the Supreme Court in this very body and worst of all in the Oval Office. I mean. Bam MIC DROP I got A. When you before you left, that was a draw. Yeah I. Mean I felt like it was important for me to. Get Out, and you know maybe it was defiant certainly in and my own anger at feeling like I needed to resign and but. You know I ultimately. It's a decision that I made myself and You know I have to live with that and I guess the work that I'm now is trying to kind of you know make up for. The mistakes that led to but also. The consequences that have come from my resignation you've support from unlikely places what is up with you and Matt Gaetz, I mean, seriously. Was One of the few people that ended you and said, you shouldn't quit. And we'll talk about that. I'm not so funny. Yeah he He is. So we became kinda friendly on armed services. We worked on armed services together and armed services is one of those committees where it's unique in that. You have to spend like basically your overnight I'm the NDA the defense authorization. So you like literally you guys are sleeping in the back room together like the whole committee and Sam, get more I don't know. I, guess with people you do bipartisan. Relationships than you do in most others. So we're friendly. Then we were also around the same age. So just be kind of like you know. Jobs like you know I don't know. What's the word I'm looking for? Band. I guess yeah and he's like you're annoying when it happened. No, he's. He's like you're annoying older brothers. We'd argue about stuff. Like that. And so I I wasn't expecting to come right offense that much. But we've stayed we stayed friendly sense. You know I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but he's also he is as as of noxious in bombastic as he is in terms of its defensive trump he also is one of the only lukens that is. Who who openly talk about climate change who is Is Pro l. vs he writes who a his more pro choice than any of the other ones like. So he's he's a millennial. He gets stuff just more than a lot of the other ones Damn Katie Hill if we're being honest he's Damn. You Hill do not make me like. I mean he's A. He's legitimately somebody we need to watch out for the Republicans if they start to evolve past trump like he's one that you know it. Real concern for us. I know he's clearly Ducasse. That has a crush on you and AOC but move on. Like knock, knock on the books out of your hands in the hallway pulling your ponytails. Okay. Are Off. Another surprising to reach out to you Monica Lewinsky, speaking of someone that went through hell and back for a consensual affair. Right? What was that like what I mean? My Gosh, she's amazing. She's she's she gave such good advice just in terms of how navigated it and You know I mean she was very when it happened obviously in the the fact that so much was lamed on her and you know you're talking about the most powerful person in the world you know the president it was it was a different situation but I thought it was so meaningful that she did reached the way that she did and and we've you know we've maintained a relationship and i. just have such respect for her and I'm you know the work that she's doing in terms of? Helping other people have gone through daming as yeah. It's it's something that I wanNA model Katie you you know apart would. So wonderful your book is just you know your honesty your bravery in Emmy you talk about everything you talk about you spend as curl up in bed my mind in the darkest places you've ever been you've talked about contemplating suicide your mom had brain surgery and your brother who had struggled the drugs. You've found him dead of a drug overdose in the middle of all that I mean. How are you still I mean You are you must have found that your way stronger than you thought. Yeah I. Mean I think I think that's something a most of us when we're when we're. Tragedy or challenges in life that you you do figure out that you you're able to make it through I. Had I had my family that was so vital in all of this and I. The other person that I look to in terms of strength is is my mom right like she had this brain surgery she's on her side and she's already back at work as. The house supervisor, which means she's the charge nurse of all the charge nurses. So on night shift is literally in charge of this whole hospital, which is a big trauma center. It's in the valley in She's you know. Cova has made it so that people people who are dying don't have their loved ones there with them. So nurses are are the ones who are. The only. Some like if she can do this, then I can do it and Yeah. It's just a lot of strong women in my house and keep keeping for you boy speaking of your sort of the nexus of everything happening in America your mom the nurse Your Dad was a police lieutenant, right? So. Here, we are in this. Next now. Yeah scapin. Yeah. But here we are in the middle of this just. National sort of conversation slash tragedy slash, whatever you know on on police policing on on Corona virus. US Yeah Yeah. I boy and I. Want to add to it my sister. My sister's a business owner who business has been shut down because of the pandemic and you know mine inch and she's in a mixed race marriage in trying to have a kid and let them in the whole thing is I was gonNA. Do I have? Have a lot of. I don't know. I guess. I'm analogies with all the things that are going on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was going to say we need voices like yours. I, think more than ever. You tweeted you said by family and friends and I are all suburban women were smarter than you racist fearmongering and more concerned with a how you're killing people and putting us all at risk be how disgusting you are women and how you've tried to strip away our rights literally everything else I mean I. I feel like in some weird alternate reality particularly reading your book and watching the. Time, but it's the any our attorney viruses passed. The trump has done a terrific job. He loves women I mean in a good way I it. So Weird. Yeah. Go ahead you really think like two different realities I mean that's I think what they're. They're trying to someone posted like a cartoon or something like what color is the sky in world like clearly not blue but I mean they're talking the running of law and order convention Katie when almost everybody is either in jail or I did in his family campaign I mean I loved your tweet you say you said Steve Bannon said, if we had a guillotine, women would chop the balls off every man. We could. You said now buddy not all of them but definitely you. Yes Oh my gosh. Yeah. I've really found my twitter voice you know. Part of my healing process, we'd be friends when this is over. Where do you live in dc now you live in DC. Sure. Absolutely. All right let's do this. La Right now. Okay. But that doesn't matter because. You know I'm kind of. I'm just warning you about the hog. About the hug when I see you. Belong Long Awkward. Allowed to how'd you get? Like everything. Well, I don't have to tell you the scale scale world out there right? Right. Okay I'm just telling you. Say No party this ain't no disco the no fooling around this covert nineteen. You have got to go to the new deal shop DOT com. They are always coming up with something new. We have our clean phone that actually disinfects with UV light and it has the what you call it. You can user. Masks smell amazing I do my mask and there my phone you've got Zap everything you take out with you with that UV light. The clean phone pro is bigger. You can fit more stuff in there I put my ear buds in there and put my sunglass put my whatever you you need. You take out your credit cards, your wallet Zappa with that UV light now. Thank you now the you've the clean phone wand for stuff that's bigger. Do my packages my groceries better safe than sorry. Do my shoes when I go in and out, Zap it with that UV light it is. You can get the FDA authorized K N Ninety five masks there. The lavender Aloe Vera hand sanitizer wonderful everything you need right now in the master in stock they ship for free. When you add that code sexy liberal to the new deal shop dot com order your supply today, the new deal shop, DOT com, get it keep you and your family safe the new deal shop dot com. You talk about so much stuff that you talked about. Self how starting it is that self-proclaimed progressive men are still just as blinded by sexism sometimes as many were in two thousand sixteen. I like that you're still speaking out on a lot of subjects I keep saying Katie every day I will die mad about what this country did to Hillary Clinton I'm GonNa fucking Die Mad. And now I've added you on the bonfire stuff I will die mad about. But just the double standard is a few things. But do you feel like having a female vice presidential? Well, and you talk about people who have resiliency and he'll come out with grace after shit has happened I mean Hillary Clinton is one that just you know after after what happened in the nineties and then what happened with her you know way that she was so she had such dignity when she lost Obama in a way. And then when she lost to trump like I don't even know what I would have done if I'd lost to trump. But she you know she took some time off but she came back and she's just such as such grace in such like you know like X.. frigging told you so but but also is not like. You know loading about it and she's still doing good stuff and it's pretty it's pretty incredible and don't you agree with what you just said that she said due to Joe Biden Dune I mean first of all she's been right about everything. But she said, do not concede I know do not concede no matter what because. They're trying sixteen ways to Sunday to cheat right under in front of our face right now. Right Yeah I mean. I think there's such a high likelihood this the the election results to the Supreme Court again and It's yours. He'll. He'll litigated like he's done everything his whole life. Yeah. Yeah. This is by the way why he doesn't have to give his DNA, Bill Clinton did for somebody likely raped me speaking of double standards in the Carroll case. You must have had flashbacks again when Comma Harris where one step forward female vice presidential candidate. How fast did they call her a whore? Seriously they started selling t shirts Joe in the hall. I mean isn't it all know that? Right because she dated someone wants Oshii Gateway Brown you know. I. Know I. Knew I knew that that was going to be thing immediately that of course. You know. Of course been accused of of being too ambitious and of sleeping their way to the top I mean that's The that's the narrative. Instead of someone who was I duNNo. Possibly exploited by an older man in power. It's of course, it's going to be seen as the opposite way and. I just didn't like. I don't know. It's it's almost hard to even get mad about anymore because it's so clear and so like you know on the nose, she's I endorsed her and I I helped pay for her in her presidential run. So I'm thrilled that pick me to know I was hoping. I was hoping is. Yeah well, I was hoping as soon as as soon as she dropped ow I was hoping that she was going to end up being the vice presidential picks whoever the nominee was so well known don't really happy about that and she's tough as nails. Katie hopefully, that'll be when we actually have female vice president maybe that will be. The barrier that we actually need because you're right it's it's so. Predictable, the sexism that she's she was gonna face already but So by the way I love you tweeted study confirms what I say is she will rise a women are better leaders you look at all the countries of the land will grow virus best all run by women I mean it's Yeah it really is astounding that that's what was so wonderful in a hopeful about. Your election but everybody that big female diverse beautiful class that game in you know you were by the way that the chosen is the freshman class representative for the Democratic Caucus. You were vice called you the most millennial campaign ever. What did that mean? What does that mean? Why was your campaign the most? That I mean it started as a joke but but I think it was just that we were we were really running a campaign that was based on just. Not doing anything in the traditional way but following kind of what we felt was the most effective way of communicating with. You know our generation and mobilizing people around getting excited and and I. Think I think that there's a lots to be learned still from the way that we ran that campaign and I hope that those lessons are taken a into into account as. Like this is a hardy and I I am very concerned about the implications of Corona virus on the election for all of these different races especially because the Republicans don't not holding themselves to the same standards that we are. I mean, we see this over and over again, right? Like we're not fighting. You know we're we're. We're saying we'RE NOT GONNA use guns. They are right is effectively, and so they've not just in the last few months they've knocked on five million doors and we're not knocking on any because of because of the virus. So I, you know I, I do think there's there's a lot to be concerned about, but you know digital and the way that we're doing outreach to to people that is just unique and and the things that we're focusing on I just think it's I don't know I think I. Remember that we're GonNa have to learn from. There are people who are doing. 'cause I'm out here I remember when Barack Obama doorstop when he came out and did a campaign event for you that was Hetty hetty right I mean your age that we. Getting was definitely one of the moments. Yeah Katie I really really hope that you run again are you is that in your? REALM OF POSSIBILITY Off, the table I feel like there are so many incredible women that have that have an opportunity and you know in California there's this you know we we need more diversity in and I'm like a lot of people have asked me dot com era's she gets elected and I keep thinking that we need another woman of color to be appointed to that seat does. Not Not that I'm even even remotely ready to go back into it, but it's not it's not something say never again I'm just I've got plenty of work to do now and and I'm happy to do that. I know I just wish for a happy ending or you dating how is that especially hard or you I mean it's now we have this corona virus it's just Yeah I'm not I I have I have someone who's really important to me that has been just a huge a huge huge support during all of this and. What I would have been. To without them so You came out as bisexual after high school right first, openly bisexual person to be elected to Congress. Do you think that's a generational thing. Again, my ex again were I'm of a certain age concern older considerably older than you but I wonder if that's generational to about being comfortable with that or being being able to be out about it. Yeah. Yeah. I. Think it is i. mean the be in. Has Been Kind. Just glossed over even though I think I think it's recent research that shows that we have we make biggest percentage of the LGBTQ population and and it's growing. I had this. You know just a couple of days ago I was talking to somebody who's you know he's he's a pretty prominent figure and he's He's he's he's bisexual but has never you know you're often you basically kind of having to pick if you're if you end up in a monogamous relationship or you know. An apparently monogamous relationship than your. People think you're gay or straight you're sort of pressured to kind of pick one of the two. So people it's it's easier than saying I'm biased people to have a hard time understanding even with that means. So me being open about it and talking about mental up to a lot of people, and then I hope more and more do it especially men because Men at the that stigmas there even more. So for women, it's there and it's hyper sexualize. You what happened with me did not help but you know people do have sex like. Women and what's something we're going to have to deal with so. My nephew is openly bisexual and it's interesting 'cause they're all those things like, Oh, you know it's just they're on the way to gay Oh they're afraid of commitment he said ironically being able to embrace embrace being bisexual is but he's now been in a relation with a woman for years but he said it's made him able to embrace commitment because he said that's exactly what he was always afraid of these dating a you're really Gero Oh you were just you know you're really straight and it's just I. Think it's the lack of labels that your generation is helping us with. People are people love is love in Gen Z. is even better. Better like I'm excited for now I'm worthy L. in the LGBTQ I've been in love with men but people have asked me are you by and I'm like I don't think that's really authentic for me. For me I would say I. I Love Man, I'm attracted amendment, but I fall in love with women I mean I don't know how you defined it but I said I don't think that's authentic. My major relationships in my life has been with women the Kinsey skill. Yeah. Yeah I mean to me I if I were if I were to label, you say you've fallen or or you've been attracted to me that sounds towns by but you. Call yourself whatever you want right like if you you if you feel like like. Relationships with women, and that's what that's what you are. Yeah. but I think people are on different scales right and I don't even know I haven't I have since I was in that relationship with a man for so long I don't even exactly know if I'm in my fifty sixty forty, I'm not really sure I've been in relationships with both men and women. here's here's my point who the WHO the fuck cares. My point is who the fuck cares. Shouldn't matter. My bigger point is you know someone just like you for me just maybe a little bit older because Stephanie. One for me I'm telling you. Going to be best friends I can feel it. I love. The book she will rise is the book I again like I said brave and beautiful like you and I just really want hug you in applaud you and I love I knowing Nancy Pelosi has been in this house for our my resistance dinner parties. We gotta do that again when this is all over but I love your whole thing about calling her to tell her and you're already in tears and you said, you know she's tough as nails and yet kind and compassionate and sheep literally knew where you were going and said, no, no, you don't have to do that. You don't have to quit. I mean she's just talked to us about her in that moment it'll bit. Yeah. I mean it was really emotional as she really took into her under her wing and and you know I think took her by huge surprise that this was that this was happening and and. That conversation was one of the hardest that I that I had to have a lot of hard conversations that time but but I remember she called her had told her that I going to be stepping down. She said, you don't have to do the machine called me back and said you know can can you even try like going to the entity? and. I just felt like I couldn't. But it was you know I I don't know I to me at least it makes me hopeful that if I do decide to come back that there's potential and even if I'm not coming back in an elected role that I'll be able to to work effectively in in politics in some capacity and and. And you always have with your fighting for the homeless or women now impacted by revenge porn like you were I i. Really am so thrilled that you took the time to do this with us. The book is she will rise. It really is fantastic and I know that you are going to find my future wife and then probably by then Nancy Pelosi will she will officiate like a double wedding so you'll be my. Maid of honor and also. Okay. I'm jumping ahead. Katie so nice to finally. And my next thing is to go to therapy. So you know I'm a big. I'm a big advocate. Part of this whole. My best friend is a psychologist stress me. It's a very necessary. She what rises the Book Katie Hill. Thanks so much. Thank so much former I'm to say former and future. person. Thanks Katie. They advocate. Land.

Katie Katie Hill Nancy Pelosi Jerry Falwell Congress Oval Office Katie I New York Post Obama New York Supreme Court Reuters Paul drug overdose Emmy Hillary Clinton extortion Monica Lewinsky Joe Biden
Ep. 439 - ISIS Is Dead, Kanye Is Alive

The Michael Knowles Show

48:55 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 439 - ISIS Is Dead, Kanye Is Alive

"For media coverage of US foreign policy then Congressman Katie Hill resigned from Congress a weaker to a full week or two after the the leader of Isis has been killed that's the big announcement from the White House we will examine the gory details and what it means for US foreign policy and what it means of my administration U S Special Operations Forces executed a dangerous daring nighttime raid I've been searching for Baghdadi for many years capturing or killing Baghdadi has been the top national security priority told us that Isis was about to be reconstituted isis was coming back because trump moved fifty soldiers in northern Syria out of northern Syria everybody is trying to get your data recently over one hundred million people had their personal information stolen in a major data breach were slash Michael Mich Al for an extra three months free do you remember how just a week ago the mainstream media he was the founder and leader of Isis the most ruthless violent terror organization anywhere in the world the United States has comes to Jesus all that and more I'm Michael Knowles and this is the Michael Knowles show or and more frequent that's why I use express VPN you can't control how big corporations are GonNa mishandle your data but you can protect yourself what express VPN does is free support the show and protect yourself and make sure that big companies don't see all those dodgy things you're looking at on the Internet like daily Wire Express VPN dot com then seven bucks per month express VPN is rated the number one VPN provider by tech radar scene at the verge countless others right now you can use my under the administration album Bach row back Dottie has been killed the leader of Isis here's president trump making the announcement last night the United States broad over at express. VPN Let me tell you something if you're listening to this show in means that you look at some pretty dodgy things on the Internet all right and the world's number one terrorist leader to Justice Abu Bakar Albuque- dotty is dead link express VPN DOT com slash Michael H. a. e. l. do it right now you will arm yourself with an extra three months of express vpn four happened to you. I know you've got like tape over your camera on your laptop but I'm just telling you it can happen to you express VPN connects with just one click it is a lightning fast it costs less in northwestern Syria and accomplished their mission in grand style this is great news great news very well all right we have got a lot to get to today I also want to mention a little bit about my very experienced debating clay can yesterday at politic on and therefore we're GonNa have isis all over again it's all trump's fault it's all Republicans we got a vote them out it's an Oh wait a second wait I'm getting new information social security numbers were talking contact details credit scores and more all taken from capital one customers there is a good chance that you were affected in these kinds of attacks are getting more it's an APP on your computer it's on your phone and encrypt and secure your data simple two seconds if a breach can happen to capital one I bet that it can done and the message was delivered okay we're all done right no of course we're not done because the president is donald trump so instead of just leaving it they're united I know I was supposed to go in and debate the Democrat Chris Hahn from Fox News and somehow I ended up debating the moderator Clay Aitken so we'll try to get to that as well I I've gotta think my friend comes out and he he just describes what all of us want to hear which is the gory details here's the president off the US personnel were incredible I got to watch much of it no personnel state's special operators conducted a mission we it was dangerous mission we took out the leader of Isis Abu back row bug dotty and that's it that's all you're ever going to hear about this and it's done no no no president trump were lost in the operation while a large number of Baghdad he's fighters and companions were killed Tim he died after running into a dead end tunnel whimpering and crying and screaming all the way to compound had been cleared by this time with people either surrendering or being shot and killed eleven young children were moved out of the house he had dragged three of his young children with him they were led to certain death he reached the the end of the tunnel as our dogs chased him down he ignited his vest killing himself us and our uninjured the only ones remaining were Baghdadi in the tunnel and and the three children his body was mutilated by the blast the tunnel had caved in on it in addition wimpering screaming chase down by dogs I love it I love it I like hearing this and test results gave certain immediate and totally positive identification it was him crying brasserie killed Osama bin Laden they gave him a proper funeral and we never saw any photos and we never saw any confirmation of this trump is going out there is saying we went out there is not wrong to like hearing this trump is catching a lot of flack because they're saying he's not behaving like Obama he didn't give Abu Buckle by Danica proper funeral here we picked up the guts and Gore and all the remains in the cave and we made sure it was him and we chased him down like an animal good we should hear that there was a time in this country when we weren't afraid to show the inhumanity of our enemy and it's important to show the inhumanity of our enemy it's important to have some more clarity Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi was one of the worst people in the world he raped killed pillaged and burnt he was a a true monster and an animal and its proper to describe him as such we used to do this it there is nothing especially moral about restraining yourself when talking about a vicious enemy like this there's nothing particularly moral about not celebrating this victory of killing the worst terrorist leader in the world this is this is this is what the president doesn't anyways he's being criticized for being unpresidential here this is the role of the president we've talked a lot about how the founders are so brilliant they set up our separation of powers three branches of government to correspond to the three parts of the human soul there is the law goes that pay off and the ethos so there's the logical part there's just the rigorous logical that's the supreme court that's the judiciary branch those are the guys who are just looking at the facts doesn't always work out that absolutely not but that's how it's supposed to work out then you have the emotional branch the branch the corresponds to appetites the wills of the people that would be the congress that's why they're elected two years in Congress and in the Senate they're elected every six years they are much more responsive and reactive to what the people themselves want and then you have the ethos the spirited part the part that represents the spirit of the nation that would be the president that's the executive branch which does not exist simply to deliberate and to contemplate unyielding anger my favorite line of the speech because it wasn't just some polished political speech written by some flee the same he's actually representing something about our spirit as a country I remember after nine eleven I think it was on nine eleven President Bush gave his speech and to only use faculties of reason is using the spirit this is why the president of the United States is not just some functionary at the post office that's why not all government employees or H. and he said the images that we're seeing on television of planes flying into buildings fills us with deep sadness and quiet over graduate it represented what all Americans were feeling which is in part what we are asking the president to do to represent our spirit in one person in one branch same thing actually another George Bush example when he went down to the pile on nine eleven yeah that bullhorn and someone said Said we can't that's what trump was doing with Abu Bakar by Daddy I wish that President Obama had reacted that way to the death of Osama bin Laden what Osama bin Laden did was traumatic for the nation it was incredibly dramatic certainly the greatest national trauma of my lifetime and probably the greatest national trauma since the civil war that demands a response that's that's not simply clinical that's not just stating the facts here you can see they couldn't hear him giving speech and said well I can hear you and the rest of the world here's you and people like this these buildings down are going to hear from all of us and that's not a workshop speech that's not the kind of thing you put in front of Focus groups that just really expressing genuine aspect of the this really matters to people you know after trump announced that the isis leader Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi had been killed in this US rate the mother of level and Obama made it so he gets some credit for killing killing Osama bin Laden and trump made that decision so he gets some credit for killing Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi the the mother of of this abducted aid workers said I still say Kayla's should be here and if Obama had been his Decisi this president trump maybe she would have been for me what matters most I'm hoping now we will finally get the answers we have been asking for all along I think this administration truly might help us abused by Abu Bakr all by himself the mother said her daughter might still be alive if President Obama had been decisive National Democrats that the raid was about to happen now president trump I think has a pretty good reason for this he said he didn't want it to leak here's yours I don't think they are as closed about what happened. This is pretty harsh language against President Obama. She's saying he just wasn't decisive now he was decisive when it came to Assam so no we did not tell they did not know the mission but they knew we were going over an area that they had that a lot of firepower notified but out I don't want to have them greeted with firepower like you wouldn't believe fair enough is says look Washington Kayla Muller Pronouncement Muller or Mueller the this was the American aid worker who was kidnapped by Isis twenty thirteen repeatedly sexual the mission but he gets credit in the way that Obama gets credit for killing killing Osama bin Laden because he made the decision he's the decider ultimately that decision goes up to the president congressional leaders about this policy we've notified some others are being notified now as I speak we were going to notify and trump does trump get credit for killing back row back Dottie yes it's it's not like he was pulling the trigger I mean it was the special operators who went into this really risky bin Laden but it is strange that Isis began on Obama's watch and it began largely because we we so quickly withdrew from Iraq that the Islamic state was able to we did tell them we think you're going to be very happy because you know again they hate isis as much as we do you know what Isis has done to Russia this is an unobjectionable win for the White House this is an absolute good for the country. They're they've they've I'm last night but we decided not to do that because Washington leaks like I've never seen before there's nothing because no country in the world that leaks like we do so wrong the greatest example of this is actually not MSNBC I don't even want to really pick on MSNBC the greatest example of this is the Washington Post The Washington you really think about it you know but if you really think about it this is a completely ridiculous argument and they're making it because this is a and they said thank you for telling us they were very good no they did not know why MSNBC panelists discussing how killing the worst terrorist in the world actually capital A. C. K. S. leaks all the time you got leaks especially coming out of Adam Schiff like crazy leaks even coming out of our intelligence community so I'm not going to let you guys know totally fair and Oh killing the leader of this organization now makes it really hard to destroy the organization and you know frankly look if we kill them you know they kind of they win you know making it up it said that Abu Bacher al-Baghdadi an austere religious scholar and leader of the Islamic to come up he didn't get it Obama didn't get it you know they harangued Bush because Bush didn't get bin Laden and then Obama did well Obama didn't get Isis didn't get up or back row Baghdadi and trump did and I'm sure you're gonNA see very different reactions to those do stories based on where people on the political aisle now trump is also h actually killing the worst in the world is a bad thing because I don't know MSNBC can explain it but I I wonder here isis is that the Islamic state has nothing to do with Islam. Here's Barack Obama saying much now let's make things clear well it doesn't make it any easier for those of us who want to destroy the organization you completely it's really actually bad it's really getting criticism about this it's unbelievable you kill the worst terrorist in the world and you get criticized for it. Trump is also getting criticism because he did not inform King of Isis this is a cause for some skepticism now when we approach the mainstream media because their predictions just keep being if this type of killing only reinforces the ideology of Baghdad's followers and in fact strengthen that versity that he doesn't know nearly as much about Islam as me some guy in America who's not a Muslim let let let me be it would acknowledge that Obama had completely bungled Iraq and Syria the Islamic state of Iraq if Iraq and Syria so he called him I soul which was the Islamic state a straighter dies at forty six e when I saw this Washington Post Headline I did not believe it and he done something great here we have defeated Isis and I think the real reason the left is so upset about it is really the timing too it's so amick state dies and austere religious scholar Adolf Hitler passionate community planner and cuts against the narrative that we were hearing just last week the narrative was isis is about to reform urinate from some Republicans who didn't want trump to pull those I it is not possible for me to have less respect for the Washington Post then I currently do and yet even I said this has to be a Babylon be troops out of northern Syria and not only is isis not currently reforming isis has now been struck the most decisive blow in the history thing helps you stay connected to your home anywhere in the world so if there is a package delivery or if there is a guy trying to break into your home or all from having to suffer through the struggle of existence dies at eighty two I put one out said Attila the hun renowned world traveller in government the left is sort of proving his point here in their reaction to the killing of Alabama Daddy I mean they're you now have on MSNBC you somehow have starter kit available right now with a video doorbell in motion activated floodlight camera the Starter Kit has everything you need to start building a ring of security explanation for requested to the Russians to fly over the area they controlled what did you spoke to the Russians l. them we told them we're coming in eight in the Levant or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant which was a little muddier and so Obama didn't have to take total credit for it but he completely bungled the thing up and it exposes Doc al-Baghdadi scholarly training on his expertise in his lung and it's such an irony because all we heard during the rise of no religion condones let's let's be perfectly clear abubaker all Dadi who has a PhD in Islamic theology from Baghdad around your home go to ring dot com slash knowles that is ring dot com slash knowles I love the washing assist has nothing to do with Islam then I guess Abu the leader of Isis Abu back row Baghdad is not much of a religious scholar if he is a religious scholar impost where democracy dies darkness ran an obituary for the leader of Isis that read I I am not I am not her he probably knows something about Islam the answer is of course he knows something about Islam he knows a lot more about it than Barack Obama does or any of the American left who have never cracked open the the mission is to make neighborhoods safer now you probably already know about their smart video doorbells because I tell you about them those protect millions of people everywhere Blair he also calls them isel instead of isis which everybody called him he obama would call them Aycell because it if he called him Isis parody of of the Washington Post no it was it was real they then changed the headline changed the headline a few times extremist leader but a lot of it focused on Abu and Washington is a leak in machine and I told my people we will not notify them until the our great people are out not just in for the left ear bad news for Democrats especially on the hill this is not going to help them in their impeachment argument killing really really really bad the binding on the Koran has never read a page of it have never studied anything about the religion and simply say that it is the religion of Peace Now is that just people a throttle with her husband and a twenty two year olds staffer so we're not we're not even just talking about perfectly amick public speaker dies at fifty six one version that went around on on twitter another one Mazda Dong who saved twenty to forty five million of his own people the left wants to have it both ways the left wants to revere this austere religious scholar they want to say Gosh this guy really knew a lot about Islam and then say but also he doesn't know anything about it it depends what argument they're trying to make about the religion of peace we'll get to that in one second but first speaking of safety I gotTa thank our friends over at ring rings sitting completely naked behind her completely clothed female staffer brushing the staffers hair these photos were so far beyond sexy like they were so far beyond anything that any normal person could remotely consider titillating and they fun free loved consensual do whatever you WanNa do man we're talking about what the left in any other situation would call sexual post headline because it admits that the left has been lying for years when they say that Isis has nothing to do with Islam if guys tends to boost the president's popularity I I nearly liked Barack Obama for six or seven hours after he made the decision to go kill Osama bin Laden oh there were some reactions to this I mean there there were so many photos that came out Katie Hill could no longer sustain this there was one photo of her did you feel so much safer against uploaded videos uploaded to the cloud so if the robber steals your ring you'll still be fine and then this is the most important part I'm considering gifts for my friends it's not that expe- have to deal with the resignation of Representative Katie Hill a total weirdo pervert who was engaged in throttle with her a throttle as a couple for three I also was one of the most notorious terrorists in the world he got chased down by dogs screaming and whimpering and now he's dead that is very good thing the bad news a they kicked her out she resigned she can no longer sustain it even at that point the left wasn't going down without a fight so buzzfeed runs the great your mother-in-law is going to stop by you can see here and speak to them from anywhere you could be in your bedroom you could be in the office you could be on a beach somewhere so if it's Amazon Guy Oto of Naked Katie Hill the Democratic Congressman Ripping Bong and showing her iron cross tattoo she had a Nazi era hope that the lights are off and not make a sound and then maybe she'll go away and and you'll be able to go on with your day that is all thanks to the HD video and two way audio features on ring devices this is really going to hurt their impeachment calls it's really gonNA knock their credibility and that's not the only wo- the Democrats are facing on the Hill Right now Democrats on the hill also of it's a pretty good deal it's like a really really good deal so those are the most important aspects and my friends always appreciate it you know I have my senior producer was able to get I really like ring a ring out to my friends as a housewarming gift because it's incredible technology it makes you feel like you're living in the future and in the jetsons it German Tattoo on her body well ripping bond well doing a bunch of drugs well sexually harassing her staffer even for the left they couldn't defend this anymore so the harassment we're talking about inappropriate relationships with young female staffers were talking about the metoo movement except it's never the metoo movement when it comes to Democrats I were fully one hundred percent creepy there is nothing titillating was left in them so she's she's brushing the hair that wasn't even the weirdest one there was another say that that Isis represents all of Islam everywhere all around the world no of course not but it does admit that there is a common x question here and it's not a complete coincidence that radical Islamic terrorism has some coincidence with Islam and Abu Baccarat Baghdad he was really oh you can say hey dropped the package here if it's a robbery and say hey you get get Outta my house you robber and if it's your mother-in-law you can stay perfectly quiet and is creepy naked photos of her exploitative relationship with her staffer come out we will examine the double standards of the sexual revolution finally Kanye West if some wackos before they broke into his house and my other friends caught a possum they thought it was a burglar and it was a positive now they like the possum as a listener you have a special offer on a ring important figure in this way as well I mean the the fact that he was a religious scholar does matter because he did command some serious credibility on Islamic theology just headline of all this I think officially wins the award for dummies door to go on the Internet today the headline representative Katie Hill will resign after details of her sex life were published my Gosh Jeffrey Epstein mm-hmm all of this just shows you how little you really can trust the media and the left I know a male staffer hill says those claims came from her ex husband whom she is divorcing. Okay okay any female employees he's done he's got to be fired and thrown out and he's practically a rapist but if a female congressman has a completely exploitative relationship with her is leaving her husband and her twenty two year old staffer because she's also been sleeping with her male finance director photos of it and taking photos of using illicit drugs and taking photos of the congressman's naked body with Nazi Tattoos Oh and also the congressman Katie Hill no longer be subjected to the pain inflicted by my abusive husband and the brutality of political operatives so funny the husband has made a few actually this is such rank hypocrisy and I just the article goes on I have I have to keep Reading Hill said her supporters should and under trump's watch the United States kills him and the left some has spends that is a bad thing a democratic congresswoman has eight staffer in her congressional office it's just awful conservative website that showed that totally consensual relationships also if a male boss ever pays a compliment twenty two year old female staffer we're the staffer actually describes herself as having been heartbroken at ripped apart by this that is wonderful and consensual wow great job that's she is resigning from many amid many photographs coming out showing her inappropriate relationship they go on the conservative website red-state published creatives make Katie Hill take naked photos with her staffers ripping bonds and having Nazi tattoos so awful of them to do that the piece goes on representative Katie Hill is resigning from ripostes here and because initially Katie Hill tried to spin this as she's discovering her sexuality and she's becoming a lesbian and it's therefore a good thing that she's leaving her husband Congress amid an allegation that she had an inappropriate relationship with a member of her staff I guess allegation is a new word for many photographs text messages and photos indicating that hill had been in a consensual sexual relationship with a female staffer on her campaign and that she was also involved with a male an employee of yours nothing about this defensible Katie Hill but she said my abusive husband and of course the brutality of political operatives how dare those political so awful I can't believe those tabloids leaked details of her sex left so she's the real victim here if you ask me you know if you really think about it but actually but thing me for a woman I don't know why that would be good if you leave your husband for a woman but it is definitely not good if you're leaving your husband for another guy who who's also court really ridiculous affair with one of her staffers and I mean I couldn't if I took that script into a Hollywood studio and I said Hey that's the sexual revolution the beat goes on hill who is openly bisexual admitted apologize for having a relationship with female staffer but denied any improper relationship with so it's like we almost don't even need to say it anymore but I don't think I've seen to clearer issues in the news in recent days in summer and her husband posted said you're leaving me for a man but you're not a lesbian wheat we've been engaged in this weird threesome for a few years but you're not you're not Lee Ori is she and her husband who seems like kind of a creepy guy to were exploiting this young staffer in weird threesomes that they would go on and taking the left managed to completely flip them trump kills the most wanted notorious terrorist in the world the air to Osama bin Laden eight cartoonish -Ly Evil terrorists ridiculous a clear case and yet somehow the mainstream media portrays the congressman as a victim and do a movie about a a bisexual congressman having trouble with her husband in a female staffer and also she combs her hair while naked and the probably the Avatar of the pop culture maybe the biggest guy in the pop culture other than the president himself that'd be Kinda West Kanye West has come to Jesus he's released an album called Jesus is king you know I don't care for hip hop I don't care for most popular music made after world take a deep breath calm down and remember that these guys are lying to you and I think increasingly people are seeing the light one guy in particular is seeing the light he is supposed to be the moderator Klay can totally objective unbiased you can watch and listen to that whole debate on Youtube I'll posted to my means is the next time the media gives you some outrage the next time they say trump to the worst thing in the world the next time they say some Republican congressman to the word just news on Seoul and for the culture then if we have time we will also talk a little bit about my debate politic on not with Chris Hahn who is the Fox News Democrat the aggressive progressive that I was supposed to debate but actually a debate where I guess Chris Chris was there he was participating but really the debate came from Clay Ache and which is the last season and it's the best season and you get leftist tears Tumbler get it you're gonNA need it because Isis is dead I never thought that I would do this but I have got to do a close reading of Kanye West because Kanye West has this album out g Konya is alive things are going really really well and the leftist tears are flowing head on over the daily wire com we'll be right back one I listen to the album we will analyze con yays come to Jesus moment we'll see where it stands we'll see what it means for music for sus is king and it's quite good now what do I mean by then I don't care for much modern music I don't care for hip hop at all I read Saccharin and sentimental like so much Christian music and it's not you know they're the best the best worst version of this is album just reads as very sincere and I was also afraid that the music was going to be heretical or so be or offers clothed and also she's ripping bong hits on cameras the all of this Oh and also she has Nazi tattoos if I ended that into the Hollywood studio they would say that's too on the nose Michael You you've got it is I've always felt the Kanye West has a very good ear the line of used about him in the past is that he has such a great year for music that he then makes is my all and all God is my light in darkness Oh God is he is my all and all God is my joy in the I by wrapping over it but he is as a real incredible musical talent he does hear things not just in the music and the culture is well this positions tend not to have that much to say if you say things quickly there can be something profound what is God you know when when Moses asks twitter page as well that was from politic on twenty nineteen we'll post that there because it was a real trip but I I've got to say goodbye to facebook and Youtube head on over to daily Wire Dot Com ten bucks a month so God says I am that I am I he god is so being that he simply is the same thing on eagles wings that they play in Blue Hair Vatican two Catholic churches where there are three people in the parish and the songs weren't even cool in the seventies but they all just really get into it in Christ is asked about his divinity and he says before Abraham was I am Christ is always time of sorrow God is my all and all God is my today in my tomorrow God God my God is my all and all got is God is my all in all it's a beautiful song the thing that I I noticed about the album is the songs are short they should be sure modern other kind of nonsense with more of a hip vibe it's not what we got three songs in particular I really liked God is closed on Sundays really don't care for modern Christian music I really don't like that so how on the intersection of everything I hate the thing I like about so the song reads God is my protection God himself too seriously Chesterton said the angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly cognac can take himself lightly here as well and the the songs I will raise you up on Eagle's wings which is also not true I will never raise anybody up because I am a person on I am not God eh and water I think listen to those songs God is here the lyrics Oh you can hear it just it just listened to just a little bit to get the sense of the music chick-fil-a so this is a song about the sabbath and it's a song about chick-fil-a in its because Chick-fil-a is representative of the modern one hundred dollars for an annual membership you get me yet the Andrew Klavan show you get the Ben Shapiro show yet them out Walsh show you get to ask questions in the mail coming up on Thursday you get another kingdom him away get your family y'all hold hands and pray when you got daughters always keep them save watch out for vipers don't let them indoctrinate closed on Sunday what is the joy and strength of my life God is remove all pain and misery and strife God is he promised to keep me never to leave you he'll never ever come short of his word culture and it's even an example of being in the consumer culture in modern America but still keeping holy the Sabbath Day but still keeping holy amd this totally self centered idea of Selfie not losing yourself and trying to make more money on Sunday this this idea that you will take a moment and reflect contemplate your my chick-fil-a closed on Sunday your your mind number one with the lemonade save lemonade chick-fil-a raise our sons trained Great things but not totally losing yourself in these this den of vipers not totally losing yourself in this completely illusory culture of Instagram burn options of time he's the Alpha Omega the beginning in the end he is all of that he is outside of time and space and he inserts himself into time and space in the inquiry something that probably has not occurred too many aficionados modern music God is my all and all for every line in here is true them in the faith through temptations make sure they're wide awake followed Jesus listen and obey no more living for the culture we know so it has the is not only a terrible listen to but it has the added injury of being heretical so I was afraid we were going to get some of this stuff from Kanye West or that we were just going to get a bunch of is no no heresy as far as I can tell my day is might today in my tomorrow he's eternal not not even not bound by our linear one of the

Isis President Obama trump congressman president Syria Baghdadi White House Dottie Katie Hill US Justice Abu Bakar Albuque Osama bin Laden MSNBC Michael Knowles Congress Syria
Full Episode: Thursday, February 20, 2020

Nightline

19:37 min | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Thursday, February 20, 2020

"This is nightline life fall from Grace Katie Hill a rising star on Capitol Hill. This is the last speech that will give from this floor as a member of Congress until leaked intimate photos torpedo promising career now the former congresswoman is taking on cyber exploitation. It's like a private piece of you that you've ever get back. Why she thinks her identity was used to sensationalize the scandal. How much of it is tied to the second year mind bisexual plus running-mate star presidential candidate and his husband? He made me feel so a potential first. Gentlemen Wife Low and family. I just want our kids to have the same last name. I know this is probably gonNA sound really funny but I really like footage and inside track. It's all downhill from here. Good evening thank you for joining us. Just last October Kenny hills once promising political career came crashing down after leaked nude photo scandal in an interview with ABC STORES. Stephanopoulos Hill explains why she's taking on the term revenge porn. I had what was by life. Now none of that exists and it is pretty unfathomable. How much can change in a year? Katie Hill knows what a fall from grace feels like the former California congresswoman was part of the democratic wave of women elected in the two thousand eighteen. Midterms midterms delivered a wave of women that excitement boosted hills rising star status within a year it all came crashing down the California congresswoman under fire Katie Hills. Finding herself in the center of a scandal intimate photos of her and another woman former campaign. Staffer were published online hill. Says she was devastated facing an ethics investigation eighty. He'll deny the allegation calls it a divorce. Abusive husband who seems determined to try to humiliate her the thirty two year. Old lawmaker decided to resign. This is the last speech that I will give from this floor as a member of Congress the refuse to go quietly. I'm leaving because of a misogynistic culture that gleefully consumed my naked pictures. Your story exploded. But how much of it is tied to the fact that you're bisexual? I think a lot of it is. It's also partly because I'm a woman. We haven't seen as many sex scandals with women. It's sensationalizing right. It's the headlines are much much better than just oh congresswoman has affair with a former campaign staffer right so it's ours are headlines. Were much more scandalous. The relationship included hill. Her husband Kenny. Heslop and twenty four year old former campaign staffer hill says it was her husband who leaked the photos in the midst of a nasty divorce in your floor speech when he resigned. You said you're still grappling with the reality of what happened to you. Have you come to terms with it? I don't know that there is a coming to terms with it. You know it was horrifying especially when you're talking about nudes that were published without your permission It's like a private piece of you. You can't ever get back. You said you didn't even know these pictures had been taken right so these are pictures that I didn't know existed. I don't think we should ever blame women for or men for sharing nudes. I think that that's part of the fabric of society now and it's not changing And I don't think anyone should be shamed for that. He'll says everything that happened was consensual but admits she was conflicted. Was the biggest mistake having a relationship with a campaign staffer absolutely it never felt like a An employer employee relationship. I guess I saw and still see the people who worked for me. Who are talking my campaign who worked in my office. I saw them as peers. And that's probably the biggest mistake that I made was that from the very beginning. I needed to see them in the same way that I saw. Every other employees that had worked for me and so when a relationship did start to form. I knew the risks right and I and I knew that I that I. I guess I shouldn't be doing right. It sounds like you don't think you crossed an ethical line there at the time. It certainly did not feel that way but I was also very aware of how it could be perceived. Her marriage was far from happy. She says heslop was abusive. Is it fair to say that if you were trapped in a relationship with your husband yes? I would agree with that what happened. Well first of all I met him. When I was sixteen years old I had dealt with sexual assault prior to that was sort of a setup not intentionally but it was a setup for something that could become toxic and over time. It's it's certainly did. She tried to leave her husband multiple times including before the two thousand eighteen election. Got Bad enough that I was like. I can't I can't do this for the rest of the campaign for the rest of my life. That's when I left the house and I I packed up my things and kind of snuck out and he'll says when her husband found out he exploded. He said if you don't come back call ruin you and so I always had that Kinda hanging over my head and I knew what he meant. The couple kept up a happy face. Public Heslop was there when she was sworn in but that changed during the divorce. And you truly believe. He's made good or tried to make good on that promise. Oh absolutely there's no doubt in my mind the more that we learn the more convinced I am of that you know. There's there's a criminal investigation and there's there's civil case that is that were pursuing house. Looks Lawyers sent a statement? Abc News quote. Ms Hilas made no allegations of abuse in her petition for dissolution. Mr Heslop denies any allegations of abuse or wrongdoing outright. The parties are currently in the process of negotiating an amicable settlement. Mister Kessler respectfully. Ask for privacy. During this time as the photos leaked online so did a second allegation. That hill was involved in new relationship. It was that allegation that triggered a House. Ethics investigation also accused not only of having a relationship with a campaign staffer but having relationship with someone on your congressional staff which obviously would cross all kinds of ethical lines that accusation came from my ex husband and it launched a start true now especially the person that he was accusing me of was somebody who he was my first higher right. He was the first person who works on my campaign and he came with me to Washington and we were friends. He'll says she felt like a distraction to her colleagues. End The upcoming impeachment inquiry and there was also the threat of more leaks. Renew from the people who had obtained the photos that there were hundreds more images and text messages. That were out there that I had no idea what they could be. I did not want to be a liability to My colleagues and how much of you regret the decision to actually resign any thing? You should have stayed in fought. No I strongly feel that I made the right call. I am leaving now because of a double standard. I'm leaving because I no longer want to be used as a bargaining chip. It's shameful that she's been exposed to public humiliation. By Way of cyber exploit exploitation with a reputation tarnished. True Job Gone. He'll return to California but stayed in the spotlight. She started a political group supporting women candidates and wrote an bed in the New York Times about her experience. When you're talking about someone especially women being a victim of something like the photos right or expectation or revenge porn or whatever you WANNA call it. What do you want to call it? There's a there's a problem with the term revenge porn because it implies a that there's something to be taking revenge for right that the woman maybe did something wrong in the first place and pornography also could imply that it was. It was consensual. And it's not cyber exploitation is probably the best. The last few months have been rough on hill. Her mother had to have brain surgery and in January. Her younger brother died. You wrote in the days after your resignation for seemed like you're very close to suicide. Yeah it's a lot with stopped you from taking that final fatal step. It was my family and I knew of all the girls and young women who looked up to me who saw this happened to me whose parents had to probably explain it to them. The ultimate outcome was that this destroyed me. And you know I committed suicide than than what does that. What does that tell them? That couldn't be my final story. You're only thirty two years old creating a brand new life. Yeah can you imagine running again? Certainly not anytime soon. But I'm not GONNA say Never. You mentioned the young girls who you met on the campaign trail were inspired by your campaign. What do you want them to take away from this story? First of all people do make mistakes and that you shouldn't let that define who you are that we deserve The opportunity to improve ourselves I also hope that they can take away a sense of resiliency that you can get through trauma and even when you've been beaten down you can San backup our thanks to George up next for Pete's mate historic presidential campaign couple when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste. You need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot Com post. A job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates using intuitive online dashboard. And when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsored jobs new users can try for free at indeed dot com slash nightline that's indeed dot com slash nightline terms conditions and quality standards apply offer valid through March. Thirty First Twenty Twenty Peter Budaj. Because the first openly gay man to run a major presidential campaign against the pitfalls of that not lost on US husband. Abc's Linsey Davis in the historic candidates mate. You know with all of the the roller coasters of running for president. He still is such a wonderful husband. There's nothing unusual about the real life. Running of the presidential candidate gushing about their spouse. What made you fall in love with him his heart he made me feel so loved but Charleston. Buddha judge professing his love for the former mayor of South Bend Indiana Pete. Buddha judge is groundbreaking. What a gift. What a privilege to be able to share this experience with him and go out there and show up for people who need him the most success of his husband the first openly gay man to launch a major presidential campaign in. Us history is itself historic when Mayor. Pete declared victory in the Iowa Caucus. We are going on to New Hampshire. Victoria finished a close second in New Hampshire. We are here to stay. There was chastity bright by his side. Beaming love of my life and sneak routed chest and Glenn met people to judge on the dating APP hinge in two thousand fifteen. I won't lie. It was a picture of him in the military. Tell the truth and I fell hard and fast for P. Three years later they got married. Charleston taking his husband's last name or just want our kids to have the same. Last name is probably going to sound really funny but I really like footage. They were married for less than a year before. Peter as chest mccollum. I'm a proud son of south bend. Indiana and I am running for president decided to run for president. So how has that been for your marriage? I mean essentially. You're you're still newlyweds. Yeah I mean there's no denying it's hard but it is a sacrifice that's worth making because I have seen Peter go out there and change people's lives some very proud to share him with the rest of the country now at just thirty years old chest and has become a powerful force on the campaign trail amassing hundreds of thousands of followers on twitter and instagram using both platforms to support his husband. You've become somewhat of a secret weapon of the campaign of here at fundraisers. You are responsible for about a third of the money that comes in if you're looking for a presidential fundraising powerhouse. You know people probably don't look for Middle School drama teacher but I think I can connect with people. I know what it's like to feel like this country doesn't stand for you. Keep Buddha just campaigning. On a message of inclusion this is our opportunity to build the most inclusive coalition that we have seen in modern times but many are questioning if the country's ready for a GAY president according to a Gallup poll that came out in January twenty one percent of American said that they would not vote for a gay president. Does that number surprise you either being high or low no but again I focus on the work I focus on going out there and showing people who I am and I think we have an opportunity right now to beckon Americans to a higher calling and to welcome people onto the right side of history conservative radio show host rush. Limbaugh recently weighed in on the matter. They've got to be saying that despite all the great progress and despite all the great kness and despite all great ground has been covered America. Still not ready to elect a gay Guy Kissing his husband on the debate. Stage President at a CNN townhall in Nevada. This week Buddha judge hit back about my marriage is it's never involve me having to send hush money to a porn star after cheating on my spouse. We've heard from his response on that. What's your response to it I've been dealing with is my whole life. I dealt with a multitude of rush limbaugh's when I was walking through the hallways in my high school. You saw that Pete is ready to go toe to toe with this president and peak and take on the likes of rush limbaugh. But I'm more worried about the kids. I'm more worried about the people in this country who are watching how we treat this. Candidacy treats his campaign and the way we treat people who for so long have been attacked by people like rush limbaugh and this President Charleston's assent to what would be the nation's first first gentleman was not always easy. He grew up in rural Michigan. Where he says he always felt different. I grew up in a pretty socially conservative place. I went to a school where you know. If you weren't on the football team or the jocks that you know you were picked on and bullied and belittled. Being Gay. Made things even harder at one point. You were homeless. You know when I came out I was certain that lose everything. I was so certain rather than stick around and find out if it was going to be. Okay I ran away from it and sometimes I slept on. My friend's couch isn't floors. And sometimes I felt like I was a burden even on my friends I would just sleep in the back of my car but I have a happy ending to that story. I got to go home. I got to go home two loving parents who were terrified for me because they love me but they knew it was going to be hard and I'm very very lucky. Not Every kid has story. Forty percent of homeless youth in this country are LGBTQ. It was his own experience that shaped chastise work as an advocate for lgbtq youth. I have spent the last year travelling in meeting with kids. All over the country in the last year alone visited about one hundred. Lgbtq centers and home service providers meeting with kids sharing my story in listening to theirs. He says this election is not about policy for him. It's personal from homelessness to healthcare to the METOO MOVEMENT. Chasta says he can relate even recalling a time. He says he was sexually assaulted when he was eighteen. I don't know what it was about society that made me feel somehow that I had done something wrong and to feel such shame and guilt for somebody else taking advantage of me and I'm so grateful for everyone who has spoken up because it made me feel less alone too. Well they live in south bend. Were there to rescue dogs. Truman and buddy the campaign trail often keeps them apart on. Fortunately we're we're not going to our home as much and so we're just passing each other in this guy but chastain says through the craziness of the campaign is husband. Never let him forget how loved he is. He's really good at that. He is really good at taking the time to write out a little poem or letter even before the final votes are tallied in many respects Chesterfield's. They're already victorious. Obviously want to be president but if for some reason it doesn't work out I will not for one moment. Hang my head and Chaim. Thanks to Lindsey. So you just woke up. Your phone is lighting up with headlines and push notifications and a text from your mom saying. How do I click this okay? Maybe that's just me but if you WANNA get up to speed check out the new podcast from ABC News. Start here literally. The ground was shaky. I'm Brad Milkey and every morning going to take you to the stories. That matter with fast fresh insight low Robert Mueller Michael Cohen. Calling all in twenty minutes start here. Listen FOR FREE ON APPLE PODCASTS. Or your favorite podcast. App and finally tonight looking to hit the slopes. Abc's Will Ganz. Has You covered? This is big snow. One hundred eighty thousand square feet of Stone Cold Fund located in East Rutherford New Jersey. Big Snow is north. America's first indoor real snow ski and Snowboard Park so snow that we make here big identical to snow that falls outdoors. We just helped mother nature along with some water. Some air and some cold temperatures. How cold twenty eight degrees. Three hundred sixty five days a year and Glycol Cooling and the floors keeps this know perfectly powdery. Fresh POW BRO. Pit for pros like skier. Lindsey Vonn snowboarder Kelly Clark. And the rest of us. He's got keeps getting keeps him time to head all the way up going sixteen stories up to one. You guys down there. Oh and one more hard hitting question before heading off the mountain and back into the mall. The other thing I've heard about this place. Is that the hot chocolate. It's pretty good. What can you tell me about that? The hot chocolate is Something that you need to see. Thank you very much as if I needed another reason to love this place when there's no mountain there's no problem. Here's how cool is that. That's nightline for this evening. Thanks for the company America. Goodnight you see headlines. Across your screen all day. But you're busy. What do you need to know? What's actually shaping your world. I'm Brad Milkey from ABC News. And every morning we start here. It was extraordinary for as watching here in Singapore. This is ABC News daily. Podcast a handful of stories just twenty minutes director Comey thanks for being with US. Newsmakers smart reporting taking straight to the heart of the story. Starting here listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP.

president Stephanopoulos Hill Us ABC News Peter Budaj Mr Heslop Pete Buddha California Abc Congress south bend Lindsey Vonn Limbaugh Brad Milkey Grace Katie Hill ABC America
Le Show For the Week of Nov. 3, 2019

Le Show

58:51 min | 1 year ago

Le Show For the Week of Nov. 3, 2019

"The deep divide some choice ladies gentlemen what the FRAC The British government has banned fracking with immediate effect ministers of the cabinet also warned Shale gas companies who would not support future fracking projects the Guardian describes this as a crushing blow to companies that have been hoping to capitalize on the new frontiers of growth in the fossil fuel industry session was taken after a new scientific study warned it was not possible to rule out quote unacceptable unquote consequences for those living near fracking sites hello Texas hello. Pennsylvania the report undertaken by the British oil and Gas Authority the OG also wanted it was not possible to predict the magnitude of earthquakes fracking might trigger welcome to the Party and the downturn in shell drilling has been so steep and brisk that the oilfield companies are taking the unprecedented step of scrapping entire fleets a fracking gear according to Bloomberg almost half of US fracking equipment equipment expected to be sitting idle within weeks and shale specialists are retiring truck mounted pumping units and other equipment used to FRAC shale shale rock whereas in previous market slumps fractures parked unusual equipment to wait a revival this time it's different gear is being stripped down for parts or or sold for scrap what the FRAC and now here's maybe the apology the week from former Congresswoman Katie Hill of California to every young person who saw themselves and their dreams reflected in me I'm sorry to those who felt like I gave them hope in one of the darkest times in our nation's history I'm sorry to my family my friends my staff my colleagues my mentors to everyone who supported and believed in me I'm sorry to the thousands of people who spent hours knocking doors in the hot summer Sun could make countless phone calls who sacrificed more than I could ever know to give everything they could in every possible way so that I could be here I am so home so sorry nude pictures of her at appeared in the British quote newspaper Unquote the Daily Mail at the hands she says of her abusive you save X. Show says she wasn't aware that the nude photos were being taken shears ulta accused of having a an affair with a member of her staff when she was elected and she admitted having an affair with one of her staff before she was elected she's so sorry the fast food chain McDonald's has apologized for Halloween marketing campaign which promoted desert in Portugal with the words Sunday spelled like a desert bloody Sunday the term bloody Sunday with a why is used to refer to one of the worst days of the troubles in Northern Ireland thirteen people were shot dead by the UK Army advertisements sparked outrage on social media but what what else happens on social media. McDonald's spokeswoman said the advertisements were designed as a Halloween celebration with the promotion has since been cancelled Donald's did say the marketing campaign was not intended to be quote an incentive reference to any historical event. We sincerely apologize for any offense or distress. This may have caused a spokeswoman a photo of the advertisement with McDonald's branding shared online by an Irish twitter user who commented coat Portugal has cancelled unquote Balladur apologies a week later Jonah copyrighted feature of this broadcast were rebroadcasting today an interview I did about six months ago with a woman who has written a book about the surveillance permeated permeated world increasingly living in and my guest today is the author of a relatively new book on the subject the age of surveillance capitalism she's Dr Shoshana Zubov and she is currently with Harvard Business School she's done a term at Harvard law school as well but she's author of several books including in the age of the smart machine the future of work in power and the support economy and as I say tate her latest book is the age of surveillance capitalism doctors who buff welcome thank you so much Harry it's a pleasure to be with you it's a very dense book in terms of its conceptually dense and we'll we'll deal with a few of those concepts just throw a two or three that I think are basic to understand stand where you're coming from a behavioral surplus and the prediction imperative and the drive of surveillance capitalism to achieve certainty through among other means behavior modification. There's a spray of concepts try to admit them all together in the first a little bit here if you would please okay well let's start with a definition of surveillance capitalism because that will give us a framework mark to to do the knitting that we need to do so surveillance capitalism I argue in many ways diverges from the history of market capitalism diverges in some ways that are not well recognized and and in pretty crazy but there is a significant way in which surveillance capitalism emulates the old ooh age old pattern of how capitalism has evolved so let's talk about that for a moment capitalism typically evolves by taking things that live outside the marketplace non-market things or activities bringing them into the market get turning them into what we call commodities things that can be sold and purchased so famously industrial capitalism claimed nature for the market dynamic and that means bringing it into the marketplace turning it into raw materials that can be sold and purchased real estate land surveillance capitalism follows this pattern but with a dark and unexpected twist what it does is to unilaterally claim private human experience for the market dynamic it claims names private human experience as a free source of raw material to be translated into behavioral data. Those data then are combined with advanced computational capabilities machine learning and and they spit out products as all machines do but in this case their products are analyses as of behavioral data specifically geared to predict our future behavior what we will do now how soon and later and these prediction products are then sold into a new kind of marketplace this is a marketplace that trades AIDS exclusively in human futures trades exclusively in predictions of our future behavior so so maybe for some of our listeners what I've just described will sound a little bit science fiction any the fact is what I've just described bribed perfectly corresponds to what we have come to think of as online targeted advertising and in fact is many people know online targeted advertising invented at Google so a surveillance capitalism and it was back in in two thousand two thousand one in the teeth of financial emergency as a result of the dot com bust that Google's founders founders decided that if they were going to save their company they had to get serious about advertising they were under so much pressure they're very swanky winky venture capitalist investors were threatening to pull out everything they had worked for was was on the line and before for this they had really had pretty negative view of advertising but if they were going to start to make some money and not be imploded by this financial emergency it was going to be advertising what they discovered was that of course they were getting behavioral data as has people searched and browsed online mostly they were using those data to improve the search engine and to create products like translation but there was extra data that was produced that they didn't need for service improvement those data back at that time they were called digital exhaust great name waste material and you know who's going to criticize anybody for Finding a way to who recycle waste material ecological exactly so there has been a few folks in the company who had been experimenting with these leftover data they were haphazardly stored in data logs on servers but the folks that had been playing around with this this had come to understand that these leftover data had tremendous predictive value so now the founders decided we're going to turn to these his leftover data and instead of calling them leftover data Harry I call them behavioral surplus it was a surplus because it it was more than they needed to do their business well so they they turned to now this this behavioral surplus that was sitting around and began again to examine it for its predictive qualities and what happened was when they combine this behavioral surplus with their already even back in the early two thousands Google was way ahead of the pack for its computational sophistication even back then Larry Page one of the founders referred to their machines as are you know are an artificial intelligence so so now you've got got this behavioral surplus which is full of the kind of things that some people now would call it Meta data not so much the key word that you search for perhaps but What time of day and how long did you spend I and and how many words did you type in an order to finally get to the thing that that satisfy I your your question or what you were looking for later in the case of facebook we see behavioral surplus coming not just from what we disclose to facebook and it's worth saying this because a lot of folks are confused about this when facebook Luke says well we'll let you see the data that we have on you what they what they mean there is that will let you see the data that you gave us in other words the information that you typed in at some point so right the information euro where you gave to us exactly what the where the behavioral surplus comes in Harry is it's not just what you post it's how you post if you're making dinner plans with your friends for the evening do you say I'll see you at seven forty-five or do you say I'll see you later Do you have run on sentences or lease bullet points if you're posting pictures what's the level of saturation of those photos. Those winds of colors right do you use exclamation points in the United States these kinds of hidden behavioral signals actually can be used to predict your personality. What you're feeling feeling your sexual orientation your political orientation there's wounds full of research at this point the takes these tiny hiney behavioral signals that I call behavioral surplus and now can use them to predict almost anything about you? You have no idea you're disclosing these are used to construct personality profiles in our normal understanding banning that would be what they're what they're putting together right personality profiles emotional cycles get into a little bit more more of this when we start talking about another part of your question behavioral modification but there's almost nothing that researchers haven't tried to use these data to predict about you so what what Google discovered was that by using these behavioral surplus doing the computations nations on on these kinds of data they could come up with predictions of a very specific future behavior at that point back back in this or or originating context that was the click through rate so easy to just think of it as a click through rate you know big deal but what that click through rate is a prediction of a fragment of human behavior that click through rate was sold to a marketplace of business customers who WanNa know what we're GonNa do now those were advertisers and they wanted to know where we're going to click but the point is those were the first Marquette's gets established exclusively to sell predictions of our futures this was institutionalized that Google it made a ton hon of money because now they sold advertisers these predictions instead of instead of letting advertisers key words and where you're GonNa Place your ads you you you bet on these predictions and you're GonNa make a lot of money we're not GonNa let you into the black box that produces these predictions you buy them you'll make a lot of money money and that's exactly what happened so between two thousand one this thing I got going in two thousand four when Google went public black and it's in its IPO documents its initial public offering documents the world I got a glimpse what had been going on Google it became clear that just in those few years Harry Google's revenues had increased by three thousand five hundred ninety percent on the strength of this logic that I've just described here what of course that means that these guys set the bar for every investor in Silicon Valley who wants to invest in a company that's going to create value the old fashioned way when you can invest in a company that's GonNa make money by by stealing our private experience with methods and mechanisms that right from the beginning they understood had to be designed to keep us in ignorance right from the earliest patents you see the data scientists from Google describing driving their ability now to hunt and capture behavioral surplus from all over the online world all over the Internet and to find find out things about us that we never intended to disclose and they celebrate in those patents that they know how to do this in ways that are undetectable untraceable that bypass our awareness. I call this the social relations of the one way Mirror Harry Gary and of course this is what puts surveillance in the surveillance capital because without the one way mirror none of this would work because what we know from all the research don from the early two thousands onward one folks actually find out what's going on behind stage here they are appalled and they don't want any part of it and they ask how do I protect myself how do I get away from this. Where are the alternatives but of course increasingly what's happened over these last twenty years is it has become nearly impossible to get away from it and this brings us to kind of the final bit of our story about the birth and growth of surveillance capitalism started a google migrated migrated to facebook with an executive named Sheryl Sandberg who I call the typhoid Mary of surveillance capitalism because she actually shaw was hired at facebook to bring these methods and this economic logic to facebook which was floundering floundering without it from there it became the default option across the tech sector for the reasons I've said you know how are you going to get an investor dirt to to help you build a business the old fashioned cavernous way which is that you you make something that customers really want uh-huh and you in you enhance the quality of life of whole societies whole populations and you raise the standard of living and you employ people and so so forth no no no no no that was gonNA take way too long to figure out how to make money that way so this became the default model in the Tech Tech sector but now we can no longer talk about this as confine to a couple of corporations or confined to an industry this this economic logic is traveling across the normal economy it's in the insurance industry it's in the finance industry education healthcare healthcare retail now coming full circle back to some of those foundational corporations that make what used to be the big consumer goods automobiles appliances and so now when you encounter these consumer goods you know the the automobile with Amazon's Alexa personal digital assistant built into the dashboard now Volvo has just announced its building in cameras and all kinds of sensor devices into its dashboard to monitor behavior inside the car Ford wants to switch its business model title from making money from selling cars to making money from streaming data from the one hundred million people who are driving around in Ford vehicles because they wanna make money the way facebook and Google make money and that's what the CEO Ford has has publicly said so now this this is becoming the dominant logic of capitalism that is sweeping through our economy and every product that you encounter the begins with the words smart and every service that you encounter the begins with the word personalized is essentially a front end interface For these supply chains that are picking up behavioral surplus wherever they can could be your dishwasher picking it picking up your conversations versions in the kitchen could be your child's doll that's picking up what are called dialogue chunks from your child's interaction with the Paul those dialogue chunks getting sent to a third party company that analyzes those dialogue chunks for voice recognition that adds to the predictive artificial intelligence all of these things are interfaces for these vast and complex supply chains that now interface right at the edge of our private experience before you go on I just want to interject that Sheryl Sandberg came to facebook from Google that was the next us I think you were mentioning Yes yes sorry she was a key Google executive who is part part of the creation of this economic logic I call surveillance capitalism. Yes you do have probably the most absurd example of this process of concerning this dynamic into Everyday life with Levi having introduced interactive denim in collaboration with Google so that you know this is Levi trying to make itself twenty-first-century so the tracking is actually Whoa Vin into the fabric ballots as you quote the the goal state of this product in interactive yet authentic doc this has become a a comprehensive and internally consistent economic logic defined and buy some critical imperatives economic imperatives and once you're an actor inside this boxes axes were you know you are compelled to make certain things happen certain kinds of practices are compelled called the design of systems in certain ways is compelled because of these economic imperatives and what I what I discovered covered in my work is that once you understand the economic imperatives it becomes easy to predict for us now to predict the crazy stuff that we see in the news every single day Oh facebook is trying to steal your emails Dell's few weeks before that there's a headline oh Google owns nest of course which is a smart home device company uh-huh and somebody figured out that nests security no less ness security system has a microphone buried varied in it that consumers were never told about How did that happen so you know every literally the every day there's at least one often multiple headlines You know so you've we we start to feel what the heck is going on here well well the way to fix that that feeling is to understand the economic imperatives and then when you begin to read the stuff off it's like Oh yeah of course they're doing that because that's totally an obvious necessary activity in relation to these these economic imperative so nothing really surprises you and it's very empowering then because now we know that the deal here is a specific economic logic you know invented by some people and a specific point in time under specific historical conditions it's it's not like we're up against the entire world of digital technology you you make the point early on and a couple of times through the book you introduce the concept of inevitable ism that we are supposed to accept all of this as inevitable there there is no choice T. T. I. N. A. There is turning you present early on the case history of the aware home yes which was full of sensors but but like certain other devices which could theoretically exist that monitor your fitness or other things it existed in a closed loop that is to say it shared the information only with you and you on the information that's an alternative universe now isn't it is that has drifted away it's melted into the mists of time those are the assumptions of the data scientists and the engineers who wrote about smart homes and telemedicine listen and all the things that we still care about today but when they were writing about those things in the late nineties and early two thousands they simply assumed that these would be simple closed loops and they said explicitly obviously these are very intimate data and of course it's going to be critical for them to beheld privately so the sensors in the home deliver the information to the occupants of the home the the sensors in the home that monitor your health deliver only to the the person who's the you know the the client Anthony the patient the the individual and if they wanNA share it with family members that's-that's their call in and of course they're they're doctor as well so we've come a long way from that in fact it's not even like we've just traveled a road we've crossed a gorge maybe a Grand Canyon so it's not like we can can easily find our way back I write about these wonderful scholars at the University of London who took some time out of their lives back in two thousand thousand seventeen to do an analysis back to nest now the Google Smart Home Company they didn't analysis of one nest thermostat hat and they they reckon that if y'all WanNa buy a nest thermostat you really need to review the so-called privacy policies at least one thousand of those privacy policies contracts at least one thousand because nest streams to third parties many of those domains owned by Google and facebook but others as well those third party stream to third party's those third parties of third parties stream to third parties and no one anywhere in the chain takes any accountability or responsibility for what what those other third parties are going to do with your data so you're basically broadcasting to the universe from your bedroom the there's just there's just no way around that and this is now a fundamental violation of of things that are deep deep and elemental human needs and when deep and elemental human needs like the need for sanctuary when these elemental needs are violated that's when we have to change the conversation from needs to rights because Berg sample we don't go around you know protesting for the right to take a deep breath or the the right to to to walk on my feet you know because no one is trying to take those needs away from us in L. A. and in the nineteen seventies it felt like they were taking there are debris yeah okay well said but you see what I'm saying no one no one is saying I can't sit down on his saying I can't breathe known as saying I can't walk so there's there's no need for me to fight for the right to walk but now the need for sanctuary the need for spaces that are back backstage that I control that I get to make choices that I choose what I do and what I will do next and what I will do after that that they choose how much privacy versus how much I wanNA share that's all down to my autonomy which is only enforce when I they have some kind of sanctuary and now that need for sanctuary where we all need a backstage place where we'd take braff wrath and we are you know I can be just myself and even the great social psychologist erving Goffman you you know who wrote about the presentation of self in everyday life and life is a theater were all on stage to a certain extent throughout our lives lives you know I put on my school sunglasses to go out in the street you know whatever it might be we're on stage a little bit but what makes us able to function onstage is that there's an offstage offstage that we can go to to take that deep breath to just be with ourselves to be their family or friends to just be be what we feel like is our true selves well this world that we're talking about now is in a direct trek to salt to that kind of sanctuary would I argue is that now we're in a fight for the right to sanctuary now we we've talked about prediction as the absence of surveillance capitalism on we're talking about holidays companies make money the way they're making money is by selling predictions to customers who want to know what we're GonNa do remember this began with with online targeted ads and The better your predictions the more money you make and when we look at the pioneer surveillance capitalists like Google and Facebook Book We know that ninety eight percent of their revenues come from online targeted ads so this is pretty important stuff all right companies surveillance capitalists compete on the quality of their predictions and the quality of their predictions at turns out if we kind of reverse reverse engineer that just for a moment it depends on just a couple of things and those things help us understand the economic imperatives that define this whole space so the first thing they figure out is to have good predictions we need to have a lot of behavioral surplus not a little bit but a lot and then even more than that the closer we can get to everything the better off we are you know that burge totality so this begins wins with extraction of our experience and its translation into data at scale we need economies of scale scale and so competing on scale that worked for a little while but of course competition doesn't stay still it's dynamic and the next exposes okay we know we need a lot of the hero surplus but we also need varieties it's not only scale it's also scope we need different kinds of of surplus we want you to get out of your laptop out of your desktop we want you to go out in the world now now we want to know where you are we want to know what you're doing we want to know who you're doing it with we want to know where you're going what you're buying what you're eating eating we want to know your conversations we want to know what you look like when you're walking down the street what is your face look like because that will help us predict your emotions Russians in your personality we want to know whether you're stooped over or standing straight we WANNA know your gate we want to know the cadence of your speech which all critical sources of behavioral surplus so we've got scale and now we've got economies of scope this is a concept that you you you introduce as ubiquity you bickering ubiquity right right so this means that are sensors are devices join up with with your phone which is your computer in your pocket to be everywhere the surveillance cameras have fought with the civil society society organizations they fought with the government for the right to have their cheap sensors everywhere and anywhere they choose out in the world so so if you're walking down the street they can have a picture of you walking on the street and they can have facial recognition built into their sensors and so they can grab your face and they can grab your gate they can grab your posture the grab all these things about you and they they have claimed argued that they have the right to do that as their right to freedom of speech they have the the right to take these aspects of your experience without asking and right now there is no law that impedes them so yes so ubiquity now final phase here prediction continues competition continues to heat up more dynamism ultimately ultimately one of the things they discover Harry is that the very best predictive data comes from actually intervening in your behavior intervening serving in the state of play in your life in order to to Hoon and heard an cokes modify notify your behavior to send you in particular directions that correspond to the commercial outcomes which they seek on on behalf of their clients on behalf of their business customers in these futures markets the closer their predictions can get two straight officer vacation the more money they make you you you go back in time to somebody that I had studied in and was appalled by in they dark ages earlier cages spe- of skinner the inventor of of behaviorisms in psychology who'd posited that humans were nothing more than basically larger bipedal rats that could be trained with a positive and negative reinforcement to engage agent the desired behavior exactly so human beings are just another kind of organism like rats are beetles or whatever it might be human beings do not have an interior from a skinner's point of view human beings our behavior measurable behavior there organisms that behave and if we can modify the behavior by inducing with rewards awards or extinguishing with punishments we can modify the behavior we have perfect prediction an ultimate way this is what the surveillance capitalists have embraced and so all these things that we've talked about how they used the ubiquitous what is digital surround to unilaterally claim private experience how they use their technologies to turn it into behavioral all data to compute the surplus from that data to turn it into predictions to create these new markets these human futures markets and sell at staff everything here now becomes subordinate to this larger program which I call the means of behavioral modification the means of behavioral modification is now the point of having all this digital digital stuff it's too heard our behavior as accurately as effectively as possible so that their predictions will make even more money so now we're talking about automated systems that modify defy behavior at the scale of populations right so it comes down to individual but it's like we're not just doing this for you here even though it's being personalized for me right personalized for you but you're not alone we're all you know the Recipients of this personalization Orwell was very fond of the whole idea of euphemisms in how power uses uses euphemisms to disguise its own workings end so personalization is a euphemism in in the Orwellian the grand or William Tradition personalization sounds good but personalization really has now a form of behavioral conquest so these these operations were I experimented with we first heard about got it when facebook published what it called its massive scale contagion experiments the first one got published in a reputable scholarly journal in two thousand twelve turns out what they did was they used subliminal cues on your facebook pages ages to see if they could get more people to go vote in the two thousand twelve elections in the US they weren't trying to tell you who to vote for just to get more people to to go vote and by subliminal cues I mean that they manipulated things in your news feed they brought in like a picture of your your friend a message from your friend with the what the phrase I I voted under underneath the picture somebody that they knew not only was in your network but held a lot of influence in your network because these are these are things that they graph and that they know they they know your social graph they know who are the high influencers in your social network and who are the far away acquaintances and so forth but other author kinds of online cues to little things that are buried in the news feed or little little things that are buried in a message so that comes out in two thousand twelve and and nobody has has any clue that the facebook researchers in combination with academic colleagues they're putting the finishing touches on a second contagion experiment and that one is published also in a prestigious journal in two thousand thirteen that one is about emotional contagion and in that one they use subliminal cues in your online facebook pages to see if they could make some people feel happier and other in people feel sadder manipulate your emotions okay in both of these scholarly articles Harry on the data scientists wrote up the research results they celebrated to fax one was that hey we now know that through through the manipulation of subliminal cues in the online environment we can change real world behavior and N- Demotion Ray we've cracked the code number two they celebrated we now know how to do this in a way that completely and utterly bypasses human awareness you never know what hit you so so we may say well it's all well and good online environment but you know we can we can walk away from that we don't have to we don't have to engage in that online environment meant not true but sometimes we can we can sort of tell ourselves that as a wave like not feeling horrible about this well it turns out that Google was developing its own experimental lab on these population scale systems of behavior modification and it's online laboratory came in the form of a game a game called Cookie Mongo you're a game that people all over the world took pleasure in playing with their friends with their families with their children pokemon go was incubated inside Gluco over many years it was a lab inside Google called NIANTIC labs run by a man named John Hanky who had been in charge Google street view Google maps google earth he had invented the precursor search to Google Earth called keyhole originally purchased by the CIA and later purchased by Google and brought into Google and renamed Google birth so Jon Henke is someone with a long history of mapping the world and mapping human behavior in the world which is also that something that street view specialized in all right so now handke's created this game just before before they brought the game out into the public they spun off Niane tech from Google and presented as a as a small company but Google remained the largest investor in this in this company so this was Google born and bred so how'd Niantic make AAC money at first Hanky sad and others that they were making mayor making money when you know people by little accessories is in Google for their pokemon creatures badgers badges and the little things that get you to the next level of the game and and that are fun to own and you can decorate your creatures with them and so forth turns out the way they were making money was they had established their own behavioral bureau futures markets their own markets selling future behavior this case they're selling future behavior not to advertisers but to unreal world establishments McDonald's Joe's pizza restaurant the bar around the corner service Chris Establishments where you might need to get your tires faxed these establishments paid pokemon go a fee in return for footfall footfall means you're real body with your real legs attached to it and unreal feet attached to those legs going someplace specific in your town in your city so that your feet fall on on the floors of the establishments that are paying pokemon go for your presence to sit in their restaurant to purchase in the service establishments whatever it may be the way this fits into the game is pokemon the NIANTIC inserts characters that you're supposed to be searching for in in these retail establishments is at the yes so niantic may put for example a pokemon Jim in the men's room of the bar or people who who really liked me missed out on the whole pokemon saying it superimposed augmented reality characters in this game on real world mapped environments correct correct so you you you go into a restaurant and you look at the restaurant through your phone and the phone imposes these augmented reality objects onto the actual environment in which which you you're standing so it may show you walk into a bar and it may show little pokemon creatures sitting on the tools of the bar car and in the context of the game you get rewarded for contacting these creatures get rewarded for finding the creatures and you rack up points for finding the creatures in the more points you rack up you pass through levels of the game like most games you're you're trying to get to the highest levels with the most number of badges and so forth fourth points so what Niantic did if you follow the logic here when we began way back in early only two thousand we said Okay we're predicting the future with click through will now click through is footfall right before four we were we were letting your fingers do the walking click through but now it's your actual body in the real world your feet in a real place place it's behavior modification as gamification which I think is a word use indeed so now we're using the logic of game which is of course based on rewards to herd populations in the direction of the outcomes that serve the interest of our business customers that's a picture here so that is pokemon go as a population poppulation scale experimental laboratory now if you've read about ways w as e e another owned by Google application ways is doing the same thing ways is now agglomerate data about you obviously it knows where you are are and not only now does it tell you like what's the best quickest way to get yourself home but it says hey Harry I know you know even looking for a new suit you're about to pass that that's store that's got exactly that kind of suit that you like you know once you make a detour there hey I think I think they might even have some things on sale for you all

Google McDonald US Portugal Texas Levi Katie Hill California UK Army British government British quote Pennsylvania Northern Ireland Guardian Harry Google Harry Gary Gas Authority
The News Roundup for November 1, 2019

1A

1:30:04 hr | 1 year ago

The News Roundup for November 1, 2019

"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply Joshua Johnson in Washington Abraham Lincoln said that a house divided against itself they say no so what might it has to the nation's top stories and joining us here in studio to help with that is Anita Kumar Politico's white Washington examiner Byron welcome good to be here and of course impeachment is where we need to start here is House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff followed by House Speaker Nancy here from the witnesses firsthand sadly this is not any cause you gather so much information to take us to this next step one of the vocal opponents when you look through this resolution in multiple thirty unless the chair so designates in fact in this resolution council this is unprecedented it's not only unprecedented this is Soviet style process vote so the House Democrats are still going to investigate the president the public so everything's been behind closed doors the biggest part of this is that the American people are going to see we can defend himself so it's a it was not unexpected but kind of a big move no but the House Democrats do want to release some of the documents and some more information obviously eighteen hours long so we're getting just a fraction of that information so we'll Byron I'd love to get your sense of this mostly Party line vote Republicans have been complaining about the closed door hearings judge Moore public than it has been so far it seemed like there was almost no way for Americans are split almost fifty fifty on this and you see it on on Capitol Investigation from these these depositions at Anita was talking about news and build a TV show around and put him on television and have them tell their story this is precisely but it it really appears I mean to me it's world series although it is worth noting barn I hear you in terms of television aspect that I understand pause and then he tells the truth in the night blows the whole thing open is complaints in my view are justified but they're also totally expected this is what loan if you know do we want to call some hearings will Adam Schiff will again he doesn't have to Extraordinary power net Nancy Pelosi is kind of like the the Party line vote and also to the Democrats because of the unanimous very easy whipping boy for the GOP and makes him the person that you can put on ads sure absolutely but I mean at this point is there a single thing that Democrats could do whether it's in terms ask oh I don't know several decades of Republican student going just to hear some of this coming from the same congressional Republicans if you examine even an iota and that till the end of the time because they think it's messaging that works and is a foregone conclusion the president the United States has come around to that as well even though at the beginning of this whole stuff on the record weeks ago obviously singing different to let me days if not weeks is that he believes it Senate Republicans Not House Republicans but Senate but even though now pulling out all the stops in the West Wing to ensure go I mean I think that's the conventional wisdom I think it's right like you are not going to see a vice led senate subpoena texts emails phone records of House leaders to see Mitch McConnell is interested in any of that remember he is the leader the Republican leader of the that doesn't mean it's going to be a full trial as we might think we don't know what that means our right now there's no votes in the Senate for this for Senate zero transparency for the American public we'll talk more about this in a minute but you know independents eighteen sixty eight which is kind of a different thing in the last two impeachments Nixon in which the party that is seeking to defeat the president a year from now roundup with Byron York of the Washington Examiner swimsuits sang of the daily beast and politicos Anita I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one A. From W. a. m. u. and NPR support for this podcast and the Oh with Google initiative supports small businesses by providing free digital skills workshops and compares life kit is that friend who always has great advice about everything from how to invest this is one A. I'm Joshua the three months had averaged higher than that at one hundred seventy six thousand jobs per month month's report it's the Freddie News roundup with politicos Anita Kumar swin soup saying will divide will be the new norm going forward it seems the American experiment is irreparably divide right it's always been nasty around impeach like this is not this I didn't live through the nineteen sixties or the early seventies but I hear some stuff for every day you see stuff on social media you see the polls that have been coming out since the Obama years or decades past and I don't want to discount downplay that I have a hard time believing that the Nixon era was comforter then of the national press such as war on the press assignation of a journalist Spiro Agnew was very open and saying that perhaps we should look for her is wrong it is very much intrinsic to it Anita I'd like you to respond to a question from instigation so the ones passed by the Republican House during the Clinton impeachment The Chairman of the committees have more power in this scenario but I believe and really the same we also Byron have gone from the like an independent counsel to a very different kind me the Watergate hearings in the Senate had taken place in nineteen seventy three they were before the house a very detailed report based on grand jury testimony to the House which was which they the what's different here is since Democrats jumped on this Ukraine things so the house is functioning kind of as the investigative body to and that's the source we need to see transcripts of what was actually said in these things so it's this investigative function be more like a traditional impeachment speaking of the behind closed doors testimony swim was the director of European Affairs the SC so the committees are still trying to get John Bolton sources who talked about the testimony. I mean the biggest Element of is that they believe there was in essence a quid pro quo being executed by trump and sends publicly announced by the Ukraines including but not limited to looking into Joe so right now were sort of haggling over the price of this with pose at the president saying that this is Watergate two point Oh Iran-contra two bono whatever you the whistle blower even though we've had enough testimony from people on the record so blower whereas you could argue this point it doesn't really matter what the identity of the whistleblowers believe it or not there was other news in Washington this week but need a what should we expect next week the thing we we wonder everyday are these people going to cooperate or not what I've after is when things will start to become public before we move on look I know that this story Pr Dot org slash impeachment it has all the details timeline so if you ever find yourself just is crossing because this is getting complicated your best congresswoman Katie Hill she's a freshman Democrat who won a long held Republican seat into whether she had an inappropriate relationships with house. Staffers here's part bargaining chip I'm leaving because I didn't want to be peddled by papers and blogs and distributing intimate photos of me taken without my knowledge let alone consent for enabled my abusive acts to continue that abuse this time with the entire country watching that was California Democratic Congresswoman Katie Hill speaking on the House floor Anita affects who is trying to get back her and that her devices were hats to release be an advocate and talk about these things the revenge porn I really think the the thing is what she was is accused of violating having a relationship with one of her staffers which she denies is the allegation is that there have been men that have violated you know that have we are a year later and it's a woman that has been caught up in this now out of women that men and women are tweeted differently Byron wonder where your senses defy with what hill is experiencing I haven't heard much granted and for her seat is George Popadopoulos who is the man who literally touched off the molar if not everyone had a cell phone camera in their pocket said You gotta be really careful about or is it an issue of being improperly involved with staff sagacious she also had an improper relationship with a hill staffer is well absolutely disappointing out she did admit that she had the relationship with a campaign staffer weekly denies even though she's copped to the other one is needed just pointed out did she have an inappropriate would a male in her position so there's nothing misogynistic or sexist about unanswered for God knows how long and it's wrong via house rules and also you can highlight of including like the Naked Bong photo like laundry like that in the national press except to humiliate and degrade there's no ethical question do with the nature of social media and the upcoming election facebook's stop all political advertising on twitter around the world he reach and paying to increase the reach of political speech has significant ramifications have applauded this decision are now looking at facebook and saying okay your because paid political speech is free speech but he's right this is one of those grey areas where we really Rick Clinton and you saw other people now saying hey they acted whereas facebook on this and right and and it shouldn't matter that that's people should be able to take out ads day it's a six billion dollar industry in terms of these political ads so it is significant moment stay clubs starters all drivers are background checked before their first ride and screened on an ongoing to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety visit Uber Dot com slash safety saw a lot of changes in the way music is made shared an experienced social media listen to new episodes twice a week on all songs considered from NPR social media especially twitter isn't political advertising the problem is incendiary political speech and circulating the most vile and untruthful content of any public figure organizations over the heads of people who the main character massacres in a church tweet had I would be banned for life well I think that facebook's facebook almost how it to appear Richard Nixon from the frost interview when the President Books side on aside their position is basically that political speech is not only auto group of techies at facebook I should say here because I have to that the point that he makes and made in his speech at Georgetown is it it's hard to figure a to to an election it's a very very large subject and with lines that or at least visibly engaged with Capitol Hill in terms of saying we agree that we it but I don't know that Mark Zuckerberg's openness has gained him Zuckerberg related saga is if you look at what is image was in the mid the group yelp started it was heralded as something that would help push through immigration not all of it not all but some of it is because a lot of Democrats read on it and it has contributed somewhat progressive base which is one hundred percent contra two how he was perceived in the mid obama-era now sorry non motto monopoly and a deleterious force right but that's a whole different question K.. In Silver Spring Maryland emailed why Lindbergh was on Capitol Hill this week he apologized Tuesday to the families of those who died in front of a Senate committee on behalf of myself and the Boeing Company. I'm I'm heartbroken by your losses Muhlenberg also appeared Rootin- and are completely satisfied as to the plane safety unquote this is the first time a Tuesday hearing let's back up to some of the politics surrounding the President Anita with one oh themselves on a live grenade to protect this president in the end does it matter it no matter what you say no matter what has happened what controversy over are sticking with him and so you see Republicans on Capitol Hill that feel that they so people have stuck with him what the what the person is referring to on the tax fraud I did a story that there were fifteen outside investigations into Donald trump all over the war that could come out that we might see in the next year that is outside of Washington come to light there's still the question as to whether or not you can even charge a sitting president so even then it would have this collusion is really huge when it's not turning out to be quite as huge this New York stuff I I think that there's almost a roadrunner Wiley Coyote characteristic the house actually impeaching him but so far it hasn't really worked where they hoped the state fueled by rushing winds they came within a few feet of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library through San Francisco yesterday a new fire broke out northwest of Los Angeles in Ventura is above normal this weekend we should also talk about Abu Bakar Al Baghdadi before while we're incredible I got to watch much of it these fighters and companions were killed with him he died bre have called some of the details of that into question what do we actually know that how he acted like a coward at the end and he true but this is a president we've seen over and over who likes to have things Peop- officials uncomfortable some of the details that he's revealed and the way he community he praised their work but he also said he's dealing with in his words people who verses that he couldn't help but not divert from when he was giving this as great as Donald Trump is and he also referenced Multiple Times Trauma Bin Laden before the nine eleven attacks happened so during the course of this we have where the president got the crying and whimpering details ledge details of bodies I can't think of any other way this particular president would have announced the death general to make the DOJ's Russia investigation findings public why think there's fear there's a balance between a criminal procedure and public disclosure that's exactly the opposite of what a number of Republicans want I think they don't WanNa hang anybody Ashington nationals rewrote some of the history books on Wednesday night an estimated twenty seven title this year's championship broke a lot of records the nationals had the worst start ever the nets also had the league's oldest roster with an average age of about thirty one Washington's let's have a strong Latino presence there victory song is Calma reggae tone hit celebrating the beauty run along the National Mall From The Washington Monument East to the capital baseball scandal over Monica Lewinsky many New Yorkers took pride in the first game after nine eleven the is historic but histories made all the time and not always through tragedy always more to life than politics and is vital as it is for us to keep a close eye with us thanks also when Soup Sang White House reporter for the daily beast thank you swin anytime Brielle Healy and Christopher Costano we will dive into the international section of the round up in just support of the David Gilkey and Zaba Ulitsa Mono- Memorial Fund established to strengthen wish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's own food products to charitable ready I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington Isis Abu Bucker L. by dottie sought here is how president trump described daddy's final moments he was screaming confirmed their deaths warning America quote do not be happy unquote is to get to today on the Friday news roundup and joining us around the table or Jennifer Williams the foreign editor and obdurate Hime Fukuhara The Washington bureau chief for Aljazeera Abderrahim. Good to have you with US delighted Dr Albuque- Daddy is dead it's been less than a week since the president made Abubaker al-Baghdadi was and why his death matters Sarah so he was the weekly declared that Isis was back on the scene his background heaves soccer player he was very religious as a young then kind of became a jihadist training ground with a lot of people connected al-Qaeda organization in Iraq ends up basically reconstituting ends up exploding back onto the scene taking over entire swaths of Iraq parts of Syria in his death at least very much from a symbolic perspective is a huge blow of slow down or temper that version of events here's part of what General Mackenzie Set I can tell observation of what he did I'm not able to confirm anything else about his last seconds I just can't confirm carried out well we know that he detonated himself he blew himself up which doesn't seem to add up Z. and the defense secretary espy it all goes needed It was a little interesting and puzzling Turkey. He mentioned the Kurds but he also mentioned Syria and what we hear in from the State Department is that the situation same there are no direct contacts with the regime of Bishop Eh said did he mean lear is that Baghdadi is gone and that it has played out parts of the Middle East did not news of those protests Congress with regard to the the the the the Ukraine situation impact of it be on history and politics in the Middle East the Syria Turkey border but again it's not entirely clear what role Syrian Turkey upon when he made the announcement we were just talking about this a little bit before the show he had one message as part of a speech in which he said that may want to be followers of Islamic state to know how he died absolutely and I just want to say you know we tend to rarely give trump credit for much traded himself but he is the commander in chief and he did give the final sign off for this raid Iraq and flew in they had to coordinate with Russian and Turkish airspace which is one of you know most rates like this do happen at night because it's harder to see I think people know right things can go very wrong there were no US fatalities out of hopefully useful documentation and sources resources out of the Obama credit for the bin Laden raid which I think people do and rightfully so then I think emblematic of a worrisome lack of intelligence that the West seems to know virtually nothing and Isis announced that they had an leader they being we know his name we know that that he exists mm-hmm we know one thing very important that confirmed something that early Islamic jurisprudence the the leader of the conditions that he has to fulfill is that he has to be from the tribe so we have that established and that has from things to the job of leading Isis particularly that he's I wonder if you could answer Jacobs Question Jacob asked what capabilities does Isis have thousand to as many as you know maybe ten fifteen thousand but I think those estimates are perhaps a bit high in terms of blending in with the population rather than holding territory right they were held by Isis they use that to smuggle oil to sell to everyone from the Assad of terrorists juggernaut but that was never really sustainable you know they didn't have any allies they don't have any natural as they do so how capabilities to carrying out terrorist attacks that are fairly devastating early days was that they were this big powerful kind of movement that you know they were on the rise and that's a huge blow you know whether or not he was involved in the day to day command is a different question the commentary on the West that we don't know who he is most people in Isis probably don't know who he is why should I follow this random guy I've ever heard of Alice tweeted listening to trump described old asked a question Abderrahim that I've heard come up quite a bit and I'd like you to answer this quickly and then in fact I mean there was obviously some back and forth about this the that day but we have seen we have seen the picture of seen people saying edge which is about his legacy that I'm I'm on his watch and Baghdadi major international gatherings one was a big trade summit the other was a climate unrest in a very long time no not very long time well so this week the president that he would attend we will get into that later there's also suspended host it it's a big hit for the for the image of the country for the diplomatic e CD The Organization for Economic Cooperation and development a lot of countries always exits they started the Thursday before but but they really got that two weeks dollar hike and the metro fares but then they went on to burn or there's a lot of discontent over things have been happening over a lot of years is the gross inequality in thirty years ago but they're low pensions some salaries are supply there's been hikes electricity than collusion by huge conglomerates and misappropriation of funds at the highest levels of the army of the cops the protesters have what's at the top of the list I mean do they want new leadership at the top do they alright cabinet so I don't think there's a chance right now titian constitutional assembly as well now I have to say that in but this has been widespread this has been nationwide and they've been targeting supermarkets and basically that it's not spreading to the rest of the country so there's this trade conference that was oversaw both ends it seems like it's you have these big movers at the top and then people saying we're too trickle-down economics that sounds familiar right I mean I find it and that memory at least in the minds of young Chileans take action he declared a state of emergency and I know that Sir compensation about Arab unity what happens in one Arab country ends are similar to what extent they have the same destiny to what extent you know there is sick you can there's a there's a historical pattern to this you can almost zil we're seeing Bolivia there's a whole wave basically sweeping just in Latin America serious questions being raised here in the united us over those attempts to fight democracy so there have been violent clashes in Bolivia as well regularities the secretary of State Mike pompeo has urged believing authorities to hold off the O. A. S. The Organization of American States is sending thirty experts they're going he is the first indigenous president in a country that has an overwhelming indigenous population. The winner of this election needed ten percents points difference to avoid a runoff so initially and point Oh seven four Evan what alison a thirty six point five for Mesa so then over these protests and and this is going to go on for a while until Phil number of families according to new government data families and unaccompanied children who were trying there and what's being done about it will customs and Border Protection Agri- nine hundred seventy thousand had been detained were considered inadmissible at the border Six thousand kids were unaccompanied minors that can on their own to the border these no adult relative yes and and this is a record breaking figure this is trying to curtail through these third country oh well that's going in terms of curbing immigration we obviously the administration tried to king so far well if the numbers or anything it's not right I think part of the problem is that third country agreements is by basically economic an aide coercion by threatening Arri and are very closely tied to the immigration problem they are meant to help do went to actually solve some of the deeper underlying problems that are driving these push sleep further propelling these kind of conditions that are causing this so on the honest in those countries they would have already done so and that's the problem here and I think you know you also that much attention that all the attention that's being paid to that while we're actually paid to hiring more lawyers a huge and we don't have the infrastructure to actually process people which is why you see these you you know it could be two years before they're going to go in front of a judge to see if their asylum claims we move on the trump administration announced this week that it's extending temporary protected status which adore over border security and information sharing and it reverses a decision from technical extension but not political extension of TPS and I'll explain so explaining that they had extended tps however what ended up happening work permits of TPS beneficiaries for Salvador till January fourth twenty twenty so technically they are extended program because they extended the work-permit at least two nations to express their grievances against the government Iraq's president barring Sally has now due Adel Abdul Mahdi will resign once a replacement is found Abderrahim is going on that have been going on in the Middle East over the last Ten society in Iraq longtime ago used to be a success story going under Saddam until he decided to go to war against Iran the of the things that are going on now in Iraq basically Hawk back to what happened in two thousand and three and there is fierce debate bayrock determined that the Shia were the majority so it flipped obviously end from protesters related to that flip or is it something else it is it is in in ah about ministries that are stuffed on Ethic -tarian misused at a time when we cannot afford food we cannot afford fuel economic grievances bed another large PA portion of it Egypt this new election law would that be enough of a concession for protesters whatever it would do this is that it's no they want the government gone and you know these protests as we've eh not just the election law not just the prime minister have Iran and the United States these are the two major powers protests there they've targeted journalists foreigners even children the demonstrations the President Abdel Fattah El Sisi Jennifer targeting journalists when you had you know Mubarak fall Barak during the Arab spring it's a lot easier to see that the next leader can fall and the next and the next which means that after the fall of Mubarak see takes over in a military coup and has been basically the dictator Oh you know Egypt has a long history going back decades and decades and I would argue probably had the backing of the United States very robustly through counter-terrorism I'm CECE has tried to essentially

president Iraq Syria Joshua Johnson trump Washington Katie Hill Abraham Lincoln Washington NPR Ukraines State Department Joe Silver Spring Maryland Senate committee Boeing Company soccer Isis
Katie Hill on why she's speaking out just weeks after her resignation

All In with Chris Hayes

48:13 min | 1 year ago

Katie Hill on why she's speaking out just weeks after her resignation

"Tonight on a special edition of all. They gave the server to crowd strike. President being impeached for his pursuit of a conspiracy conspiracy. Theory will not defend himself in the house. Are you sure they gave it to. Ukraine is how Donald Trump has managed to separate his the entire Party from reality and Congressman. Ted Lieu and senator. Maisy Hirono what happens. Next plus new alarms over Rudy Giuliani's trip to Ukraine. That's a question between Rudy and the president and former Congresswoman Katie Hill. On why she's speaking out just weeks. After her resignation hiding eating away and disappearing would be the one unforgivable sin live from studio six a in Rockefeller Plaza. All in starts right now. Aw thank you for being here. Thirty rock another historic week. We're doing this thing that the country country very very rarely does impeaching president. It's happening kind of in real time on Tuesday. The House Intelligence Committee dropped a three hundred page report. Detailing the evidence it's that was collected in the INCRI in that committee into the impeachment of the President and in that report which I think we all expected wouldn't have any new revelations. There was a crazy revelation in which these call logs. You see this that were obtained by the committee that suggested that the ranking member of the Republican on the House Intelligence Committee Congressman Devin Nunez The he maybe was part of the very same scheme to hijack Ukraine policy. That's literally the reason. The president is being impeached congressman. Nunez had multiple phone calls with not only Rudy Giuliani. But also Rudy's indicted Powell led par Nas and he just failed to mention it like while you're sitting there the whole time while they're all talking about it which is weird and kind of fishy to say the very least and so now is. Your committee is preparing articles articles of impeachment against the United States. It's just the fourth time in American history that's happened and as we head towards that moment when we get the articles. I think there's there's a palpable sense and I don't know if you feel this way but I do and certainly reading the polling that we've reached a place where public opinions kind of leveled off right that the views on impeachment are hardened and polarized and that's not unusual but it's certainly not unusual impeachments right history but right now we are more. Were polarized than ever along party lines. As a country we basically every metric. We have to measure this. It's the most polarized time since the civil war in in America. And when you hear people talk about polarization. I think it's really important for me to say this to you. The audience here and at home that polarization is not just something that that is is true of like them like the other side right. Those bad guys over there. Those trump voters like everyone is subject to the same human impulses pulses the same. Confirmation bias tribal loyalties the impulse to kind of push away bad news for your side. Listen to news that helps your side and it's impulse that we all have to fight about it. We try to fight it here and we do the show. And it's also wife factions and parties have been part of every democracy from day one. This is sort of how human beings WCHS agglomerate together. How they fight for things? It's inescapable but the other thing about this is wall. Polarization happening both sides. It's also the case that ah one side is much worse and now I know I know that's not even go and there's no way to say that without yourself sounding biased. Obviously right to say like I'm telling you it's not but also them but but I think that I really do think that's true. I WANNA WANNA just one example. That was really sort of friend of mine today of one side sort of being worse being less reality and that was because today was jobs day. It's a big deal in the business press and even in the media generally because it's the day the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases all the job stats for the previous month and and it was a good jobs number today. There's two hundred sixty six thousand new jobs that beat expectations by quite a bit the unemployment rate tick down to three point five percent. That's a fifty fifty year low. It's good that a lot of people are working. Yes right exactly people are working. We're happy about that. Now there are a lot of places I think if if you look into the data if you sort of sit through it that show he economies actually a lot weaker for working people and for huge swaths of Americans than that number suggests but the data is the data right. The top line numbers were good today and after the job numbers came out. I saw this tweet from politico's chief economic correspondent Ben White. WHO's been covering this for years saying today? I'm thankful I don't see the kind of Bureau of Labor Statistics troopers but always seem to pop up when Obama had good jobs numbers and that was a whole thing micro industry back during Barack Obama's presidency anytime there were good jobs numbers a bunch of conservatives. A bunch of them would just start yelling but they're cooking the books. This is a deep state conspiracy inside the government to mess with the numbers to make Barack Hussein Obama. Look good the economy's bad even Jack Welsh. Okay the former chairman. CEO of General Electric which used to own this network tweeted this back in two thousand twelve of quote unbelievable jobs numbers. These Chicago guys will do. Anything can't debate so change the numbers. That's Jack Welsh and he was always as a conservative guy. But you know for respected business leader to accuse like the president's agents inside the be less fudging jobs numbers to help us relection. That's pretty wild. And he was not the only one by any means. This was a widespread view on the right twenty fourteen trump. TV host. Sean Hannity called the unemployment rate ally. There are lots of others. There were whole websites devoted to this. Like the alternate facts of the jobs numbers but the number one jobs number truth there. During the Obama Administration was Donald Trump. Yes okay. He tweeted he tweeted about it all the time all the time. It was obsession and when he was out on the campaign trail he was saying absolutely crazy stuff. The job numbers that come back our total nonsense compile the numbers. There's so the politicians look. We're losing jobs. We have a phony jobs. Can you hear about that phony jobs number where it's five percent five percent five percent. Don't believe the five percents and stuff we don't have five is twenty five percent. Real unemployment rate is probably thirty percents. I actually think it could be as high as thirty to thirty five percent. Its highest thirty five. In in fact I even heard recently. Forty two percents a phony set of numbers. They cook the books you ever hear the expression right. They cooked the books Ayar forty-two percent different half the country's unemployed. I mean it's funny but it's not because the result of hearing things like that over and over and over people actually started to believe that the unemployment rate went up under president. Barack Obama. Okay it did not did not. But according to a poll from December twenty sixteen fairly recent sixty seven percent of trump voters say the unemployment increased during the Obama Ministry to only twenty percent safety now unemployment went down a lot under Barack Obama. If you look at this chart that's the reality. But trump got his people all thinking the opposite of the truth now then candidate trump becomes president donald trump and the first jobs report comes out and it's actually pretty good in White House. The Press Secretary Sean. Spicer goes out back when they still hope press conferences and he set out to do a victory lap and reporters asked him about all of trump's old comments comet's Yeah I talked to the president and prior to this and he said quote him very clearly they may have been phony in the past. But it's very real now. Ah Ha everyone laughs. Oh isn't that so funny. Yeah it was all wink. Wink nudge nudge. We were lying before it was all just bad fee and even though Donald Trump was literally jobs number thirty right up until he got into office. That's what you see happening on the first so there are two things. Though to understand about that moment one is what I'm describing here is totally asymmetrical okay. There is only one side doing this conservatives -servative and the now Republican president. No one on this network is going to come to you today on this job day and say that trump is cooking the books. It's not true I'm telling you right now. The jobs numbers are the jobs numbers because one side is attached to fax. The other side just is not any the second thing is that Donald Trump brought that seem delusional usual madness into the White House. It did not die. With the Obama birth certificate and the fictional video of Muslim Cerrell braiding nine nine eleven that he wrongly and offensively said existed and the not actually inflated job numbers. NO IT DIDN'T I. It continues because Donald Trump right now is being impeached for using the full force of the state the most powerful position in all of human world to pursue an equally insane conspiracy theory like the ridiculous crowd crowd strike thing that he keeps going on about the Ukrainian president to investigate the idea that get this Democrats hack themselves with the help of Ukraine to leak their own emails and frame Russia and right now. Trump's own justice department is pursuing another conspiracy theory to through investigations to of another conspiracy theory that the deep state entrapped the trump campaign into appearing to encourage Russian help in the election. This summer is doing this right now. And then we have this new reporting just in the last few days that the actual fact finders in this matter right the ideas report and this other report that's happening through a US attorney have found no evidence to back up that claim big surprise. Is that going to stop the president from saying it just today really wrapped up a trip in Ukraine where he is continuing to do the equivalent of jobs number true thing on a much larger for more dangerous international scale. Giuliani is trying to find someone. Anyone no matter how shady or duplicitous or deceptive or corrupt who will tell them they were cooking the books essentially in Ukraine they had it out for Donald Trump. And this is. It's phenomenally dangerous but the most dangerous part is president. Donald Trump is as much a symptom of this is. He has the calls. I mean the man is first and foremost a Fox News viewer. That's that's his central identity. He's I mean that's that's what's going on in the brain and there's an entire ecosystem built around the alternate reality. It is untethered from fact the same one that tells them that the jobs numbers are made up that same ecosystem is now telling people that the deep state is got to get Donald Trump that Ukraine actually meddled in the election not Russia that there are imaginary server somewhere volt in Kiev's that will blow the whole thing opened bent and all this is being told the high would really happen and those people and that ecosystem that is almost hermetically sealed off from this sort of touch to reality has a purchase on forty percent of the country and in the real world in which the rest of the country resides the jobs. Numbers are the numbers. I and Russia sabotage our election not Ukraine but trump world has completely in some cases cut themselves Offer from these facts and knowledge of that is a danger of having this guy's president the danger of the ecosystem that produced him and it's the danger of this political moment. Because this is where we are and this is the world in which the impeachment and trial of President Donald Trump's going to take place. The question is can there be any persuasion on impeachment in this ecosystem that has been totally detached etched from the intrusions of reality. And if the answer to that is no what does that mean joining me now. House member member of the House Judiciary Committee Committee which will be responsible for drafting voting on articles of impeachment against President Congressman. Ted Lieu of the first question. You Congressman is is that is persuasion on this question possible and if so who are you as a member of this committee that's GonNa be drafting these articles. Who are you trying to persuade? Thank you Chris for that question. Let me ridder right again. That impeachment is one of the gravest powers of Congress second only to her power to declare war unless hours bureau last option reserved for those rare times times where. We can't wait for the next election. I think we may be at one of those rare times because the facts show that Donald Trump repeatedly solicited foreign interference in elections. That's a threat to our core of democracy and I think the case is particularly powerful because some of the most damning evidence came from trump's own people people people like embassador Gordon's Sunland gave a million dollars to trump inaugural committee. And I think it's those facts from people who are trump's people that make this case compelling but wouldn't it'd be targeting the. US senators and seeing if they could see the facts in this case. Your but you're okay. So you're represent a fairly democratic district. It's not like like a swinger frontline district but obviously when you've got hundreds of thousands of people in district you've got people all sorts of politics like do you feel like just even your own district. There's some set of people who are on the fence that with enough evidence and properly displayed to them. You can bring over to thinking. This is the right thing to do. Who aren't yet convinced? I think there are some there are on the fence. I think we also have to convince the American public. That Democrats have a good case whether or not you agree with our ultimate conclusion. If the American public can at least come to the view that the Democrats had a good case to proceed that I think we have victory their a and they're impeachment is like an indictment. I'm a former prosecutor This is not the trial at this. Is Their indictment phase. We just have to have probable cause ause that we believe. The president engage in this misconduct. And I think the evidence is overwhelming that he did. You know it seems to me. The part of the strategy from the beginning right is to essentially we call the process itself illegitimate right that that has been the argument from both the White House and from your colleagues in the Republican Party just a few hours ago. The president's White House Counsel Center a kind of I don't know the right word snitty to paragraph letter saying appearing to indicate that none of the president's representation will show up the the committee hearing despite the fact they banged on about wanting that do you do you see them as essentially attempting to de-legitimize fundamentally the process. You're undertaking in the house. That's exactly what they're trying to do. Because they don't have the facts they have not been able to re but their main fats in this case which is Donald Trump solicitor Korean leader to publicly announce an investigation into the DNC server and the Biden's and then he conditioned that public announcement on military aid critical White House meeting. The White House has not been able to say that any of those facts or wrong were improper. We invited the White House who to participate. As a four processor I know that if they had ex culpa Tori evidence the defense would present it right in this case. The exact thing is happening so the most host interesting members of the House to me on this question right now is Justin Amash and the reason is that he is he is. He wasn't a Republican. He came out for impeachment after the Muller Report Art because of the compelling case for obstruction in the report before Ukraine but he has since embraced impeachment. He tweeted today that he could view himself or I think he told people view voting in for three articles of impeachment obstruction of Congress obstruction of justice abuse of power. How much is a marshes view on this significant important to the way your caucus thinks about it since it's been kicked out of the Republican Party but he's not a Democrat represented osh is someone with high integrity? He has also very conservative. He was a a member of the tea party and he looked at the facts and he made a determination based on principles and apply Lauder facts and concluded that this impeachable conduct doc. I wish more people who've broken party would do what just an ammash did and what we're going to try to do is really present the facts in a sober deliberate matter using being trump's old people to make the case against him all right congressman. Ted Lieu California on the House Judiciary Committee thank you so much for your time tonight sir. If that's what it looks like in the House then the question is is there any hope for the Senate senator measly. Her owner Hawaii is secure. in-studio talk about that next. Don't go anywhere. Hey It's Chris Hayes. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast cast. Why is this happening? We're exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is climate change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts? Hey Guys Willie geist here this this week on the Sunday. Sit Down podcast. I get together with actor Robert Pattinson to talk about the impact. The twilight movies had on his life and his latest assume. The Lighthouse get now for free wherever you download your podcasts. The on Monday the house she district committee will hold. Its second impeachment inquiry hearing where you can expect a kind of trial like atmosphere. There's going to deep presentations from both majority and minority counsel for both the Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee. So it'd be four lawyers up there and it now appears likely there'll be full full house. Vote on impeachment before the end of the year and assuming the vote goes as expected and it looks like it will if trump is impeached. That's when the real trial trial will start. And that's when the Republican led Senate deliberating whether trump should be removed from office will happen which require two thirds. Vote this week. The Senate Senate put out. It's twenty twenty schedule and you might notice that January is just missing from the document. The Senate leadership citing quote uncertainty on the floor scheduled for the start of the year and in their defense. There's a lot of uncertainty about what to expect joining me. Now is a member of the Senate who's GonNa play a part in that historic process and likely ultimately have to vote on whether to remove the president from office. Please welcome Senator Amisi Hirono Democrat of the. I'm going to talk about impeaching. I WanNa start with something that happened to some awful thing that happened today in Florida. In Pensacola where three people were shot and killed. Shooter was then killed seem to be a Saudi national on a Naval Air Station. And the reason I want to bring it up for you. Specifically is that on Wednesday or state at Pearl Harbor another naval base. There was another shooting in which navy sailor shot and killed two people for killing himself You have been session now. There are gun pieces of gun legislation sitting and I should know that the service weapon was used unable station in Pearl Harbor so it doesn't actually affect him Paul's you level but what it is. Is it like to sort of watch. This happen. Knowing that there is legislation. That might even pass the Senate if Mitch McConnell will bring it up for a book. Well I'm glad you mentioned that it's Mitch Mitch. McConnell who could bring the house pass gun safety law a to the floor and he won't do it because he's listening to the NRA story and when you think about it there are one hundred people who die from gun violence every single day in our country every single day added up. So it's it's inexplicable explainable. If you realize how strong they are a is and so there's no excuse and of course my heart and our thoughts go out to the families of the people who were killed in Pensacola and in Hawaii but at the same time once again we are reminded that we have to do something. There's no magic agic pull it on your gun violence in our country but we can do some basic things. Do you think I know. McConnell won't bring this up for vote do you think gets because it would pass like if it if there was a world in which were brought up for a vote like do you think you'd get the fifty one votes even if it even if we don't get the fifty fifty one votes. I don't think he wants his members to come out and and kind of act like they're all within our I think that's the damaging protecting us I think so. Yes impeachment. His now most likely going to coming to your body in the Senate and I asked Jim Manley this last night now. He was a longtime staffer for Harry. Reid there's a certain contingent in the house and the White House who want the Senate trial to be turned into an absolute circus like a Matt Gaetz style counter investigation. Where they subpoena Hunter Biden? KC Do you think that will happen. I think the Republicans might try it because they've been stymying everything they you know putting road blocks every everywhere I and then here's what how I explain it. You know they can't focus on the this. This is the president shook down the president of one of the country basically basically trying to bribe the the president of Ukraine. Saying I'll give you four hundred million dollars if you do this thing for me politically. They can't focus on that so they want to focus on what about that. What about that? They don't focus on this but when they do focus on the this if and when maybe they're going to say so what get over it. We shouldn't get it over. That's not that's not okay. I understand impeachments working the passes. This is that the the the chief justice presides but really the procedure rules are set by a majority of whatever they get fifty one votes for. Do you think there will be any restraint. Do you think it'll be hard for McConnell to get fifty one votes to say like Subpoena Punter by. I don't know this. It's really hard to predict because these are not normal times other normal times you would think that an impeachment proceeding is serious. Business lended the seriousness that it deserves irrespon- these are not normal times and they're going to try all kinds of things and who knows what I'm hopeful that recognizing that this is our constitutional responsibility. There's going to be some element of recognition of that on both sides of that will be able to have a preceding that will for most people they will say okay. A you know we're going to get on with it and we'll take a vote but the Republicans could turn it into a circus because they're already trying to get all these other people and you have Giuliani Johny still running around like he's a mad person There was something else that happened in the house today. That of that was pretty interesting and somewhat disturbing the bank. The Spring Court struck down a part of the voting rights. Act which laid out the formula for which states localities in districts. I had to go to the Justice Department. What's called pre clearance when they're making changes right? This court said that formula was bad and that if Congress wanted one they have to come up one. Congress came up with one past it today. Every Republican voted against that except for one. Who is the one guy who's retiring? No Brian Fitzpatrick who I think actually is reelection. You the little you say we got one. It used to be totally bipartisan. Bill Liner George. W Bush toy bipartisan. Like what does that say to you right now. About the nature of the politics of the country there was one vote for restoring that part. It's very sad that there's only one vote to try and protect voting rights which is a really sacred right. As far as I'm concerned and they started of course with the show Connie decision that took away a major part of the voting. All right so and then you have attorney general bar who is particularly interested in going after voter fraud and all of that voter suppression. He's not interested in and all of that. And so you can see the kind of divisiveness occurred and I really loved your piece coming in about the divided country but some some of US actually listened to facts. We pay attention to facts and there's a whole group of people in our country sadly who watch Fox it's news and we're not going to be able to change your mind apparently right but do you have colleagues. I mean there used to be used to be the case that you had colleagues who listen to me the case like again. I'm not making this up. The vote bipartisan reauthorization. The Voting Rights Act. But it wasn't even that partisan it wasn't it was him since Brenner. WHO's a very conservative from? Wisconsin was the chief architect of it like does. Does that still exist other issues that you talk to your colleagues across the aisle and say let's work together on this this. Here's here's what the facts say. There are a couple of issues on which we can actually have. Bipartisan bipartisan support. One is the national defense authorization. Act which I think we'll be able to do on a bipartisan basis. But anytime trump gets his fingers into a situation like all the appropriation bills any wants his money for the wall. It all a guess like this any time he puts his finger anywhere in all goes haywire. It's chaos right. That's interesting come to that conclusion. He's an ear right as long as he stays out of Bender's that's very interesting center Roseau Roseau of Hawaii. It's great to have you here now. Trump is being impeached for Ukraine extortion at the very least that his bag man would stop doing the very thing that got him impeached but no really Giuliani was just in Ukraine. Still doing thing it for. Explain all that next question. That's making the rounds today. From almost everyone across the political political spectrum is what is Rudy Giuliani doing in Ukraine meeting with a variety of extremely shady characters and tweeting out precisely that kind of threats towards Ukraine that president trump is currently being impeached over. Even Republican defenders of trump have not exactly been jumping to defend Rudi now. I can't speak for Mr Giuliani. He's wild as a march hare. I do not speak for Mr Juliane. I think it's a little weird that Rudy Giuliani's over in the Ukraine in right now and I'm not here to defend Rudy Giuliani. Who is aware of what really happens? that's a question between Rudy and the president. Well Yeah it's between routing the president because he's doing the president's bidding that's what he's doing over there for more on the latest trip drama to reporters who've been tracking the Rudy Giuliani Saga as Brown. Your World News editor and reporter Buzzfeed News and Su- sang White House reporter for the daily beast. Glad you guys will the with you. You reported today that basically no one had any idea who was showing up in Ukraine in the US government or the White House and they're desperately shortly trying to track his movements well. Many senior officials both in the State Department and elsewhere in the national security apparatus us on early this week several days before the New York Times story broke the revealed. What Giuliani was doing overseas in multiple European countries? Start getting word word. That Giuliani had made his way overseas and they frantically tried to figure out what he was doing and they were freaking out that he was going to do something that would potentially damage damage. US foreign policy or potentially bring more heat on the administration or the President even as he's obviously done before with these various Ukraine in related shenanigans. So for days they tried to figure out what the hell was going on. Couldn't figure out what he's doing but start to create sort of a roadmap of which countries in which cities he was visiting in Western Europe or Europe. I should say and they were trying to do this right up until the moment the New York Times story broke on Wednesday revealing what he was doing and when we asked Rudy Giuliani if he cared that bees trump lieutenants were frantically concerned about what he was doing he simply told hold us. I hope they would have better use of their time. So we should say that the rudy is is tweeting yesterday that basically the the fundamental elements of the extortion. The president being pushed over saying that the the Biden and the two thousand sixteen investigations. That has not been resolved and until it is it will be a major obstacle to the US assisting Ukraine with its anti-corruption reforms. Like in real time yesterday in Ukraine he is making exactly the quid pro. Quo Extraordinary claim the president. Now I'm not a lawyer but that seems like a really bad defense your client especially reclines the president who is currently being impeach. Teach now if I were the presence lawyer and I wanted to go and create an ironclad depends case for saying that impeachment. Narrative is false. That they're getting entirely really wrong. Then I would go and meet with basically opposite everyone that Rudy Giuliani has met with and tweet the exact opposite that he tweeted thing. Hang on that point. I'll come back to you in a second swing but on that point I mean I've been sort of reading into some of the characters he's meeting and these are some pretty sketchy figures in Ukrainian politics absolutely so one of the people he spoke with Victor Shokhin who was the prosecutor general in Ukraine. Who when he was in charge was supposed to be running anti corruption efforts but was actually pretty corrupt himself and it wasn't just you know former vice president Joe Biden who said that it was the rest of the US government mm-hmm it was international institutions who our allies who all said this guy's really bad at fighting corruption and he needs to go now in Joe Biden's telling after he left office he really kind of elevated himself and that's become kind of the base level of this conspiracy theory that Shokhin had promoted saying that you know Biden got me fired right but shokhin I mean what's what's key to me here is you? You have basically a bunch of figures who are basically unknown to the American public right but in Ukraine have pretty shady reputations at Giuliani seems dead set on essentially elevating as the means of defending his client. The president absolutely I mean you go from Shokhin to his to his successor. You're think. Oh who Giuliani met with in Budapest before he got to Ukraine. He's the one who a bunch of tales about what the the former. US ambassador. Marie Ivanovich Give Him do not prosecute lists that she was bad. Melting trump and those lies got sped. Giuliani through. John Solomon at the hill and he recanted them. He said by the way guys I was making that and know by now how Giuliani went back to him to try and prove somehow that the president is being impeached unfairly. It makes absolutely no sense. When I the only thing I can conclude here from from Hogan Gidley is that you had the presence lieutenant saying where's Rudy? The Republicans refusing to defend him. But I think these he's doing this at the president's bidding. He's still doing this for Donald Trump. well as Rudy. Giuliani was going about this for months before this exploded in the form of the Ukraine scandal scandal and the impeachment inquiry he would repeatedly tell me and numerous other reporters on the record that he was keeping president. Trump updated dated come on his Ukraine. Related investigations virtually every step of the way. I would tell them. This is what I'm planning to do. This is what I WANNA do. And President didn't trump of course approved of all of it and it's unclear if Giuliani gave a heads up that he was headed to Europe on this latest giant this week but it it stands to reason that he's kept him updated step-by-step in the past. Perhaps he's doing that now. Sources in and out of the administration who. We've been talking to familiar with the ongoing relationship. Say That Giuliani and trump still continue to talk fairly regularly. So you can't let a little thing like impeachment get in the way of good friendship unshipped more in this case or in this case to keep your eyes on central plot. He's he's four that is what's so remarkable here. Is this attempt to actually continue to solicit foreign interference in the election as he's being impeached for attempting to get foreign interference in the election. Absolutely and one of the things that Rudy's been tweeting about is how all of this is completed within the president's rights to do. I think it was early today. He tweeted that. Well if you look at article two section three of the Constitution the president has to do this and if you look at that. There's a clause in there that says the president must make sure that the laws are being faithful executed which I think is a pretty bad defense of Donald trump breath you look at the arc of history when it comes to taking the laws of Congress passed including providing almost four hundred million dollars military aid to Ukraine and completely ignoring during that aspirin sang in DC as Brown here in the studio great to have you both. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you go anywhere is interview. I've actually been looking forward to all week actually for longer than that. I've been wanting to speak to this person. Former Congressman Katie Hill is going to join me here in studio next the everyone Steve Cranky here we have heard explosive close of testimony from key witnesses in the public impeachment hearings. So what's next. As the case for impeachment Ben made could the President Count on Republicans support in a Senate trial. How and how could it affect the twenty twenty election? While every Monday Wednesday and Friday I talked to NBC News reporters to answer these questions and more on article two do inside impeachment it's NBC News. PODCAST that I host. We break down what matters what's next and what it means for our country search now wherever you're listening to this podcast subscribe for free. Thanks for listening in October over a freshman Democrat Katie Hill who had just flipped a Republican seat last year announced. She was stepping down from Congress after acknowledging a romantic relationship with a campaign staffer for and being accused of relationship with congressional staffer which she denied the real driver for exit from Congress so quickly where the images of revenge That was reportedly shopped around to various places before being published by several conservative media outlets clearly with the intent of shaming and bullying her out of Congress an and enter Farewell Katie Hill expressed remorse and frustration and anger at what she called the double standard for how men and women the public treated. Join me now to talk about her. Experience and this political local moment is the former Democratic Congresswoman California's Orange County's Katie Hill. The I feel I wanna just start at like a human level of. How are you doing? Thank appreciate that Listen I'M NOT GONNA lie. It's been hard it's been really hard. You have something that you and so many people that you care about and love worked so hard for for such. That's a long time. And then within an instant it's totally gone and you have to take stock in and regroup about what your life's is GonNa look like moving forward and I don't just feel that for myself. I feel that for a lot of people so but I feel like it's really important for me. on on behalf of the people who work so hard for me to stand back up and make sure that I continue to fight. Do you regret stepping down. I don't regret it. I think it was the right thing to do for a number of different reasons one of which is that. I think there's a there was no way for me to continue working as well as I could. With the amount of destruction that this is going to continue to provide this was fodder for you. Know right wing operatives and as we were literally the day that I took my last spoke was on impeachment non moving forward with impeachment inquiry. And I knew that I was going to be basically Bait or some kind of Distraction Ryan against what what was really important and the my my ex had made it clear that there were hundreds of other images and text messages and I didn't even know what those were right. I don't know that they existed. But the amount of stress that it was putting onto my family onto my you know my my supporters onto my staff and and even onto I was supposed to be the freshman representative to leadership. How could I be the fresh representative to a lot of these people who were in tough seats when they were going to have to go home and answer questions about who? Is this person that you were working with. I think what happened to you in terms of what those images was despicable but there was an accusation of ethical breach which is that there was an inappropriate relationship with a congressionally which would have been subject to ethical distiction restriction. I think there's a reason that the ethical lines did that happen. Well no I have said many times that the entire ethics investigation started because because of a claim from my estranged husband and that was it. There was no report from my office. They don't want an issue that was initiated and I actually have said this to the chair of Ethics Ethics Committee. I have a real problem with whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. I don't think some random person making accusations should launch an ethics investigation because it's incredibly invasive. Jason it's something that's a big big deal for not just you but for your staff as well there should be some kind of an actual basis for it that vengeful ex of some kind or just just a random political operative can't be the one who in instigates an investigation like that so yeah. I think it's highly problematic and and But they're able to start that for for whatever reason and they said that well there were public in publicly made accusations and so we have to launch this but that was a huge huge judge. You know it was an interference in the work and it was something that was highly stressful and and we didn't know what all could could happen with that especially if they were gonNA continue to be images and claims and and if there was no boundary apparently on what they could be. I mean you're literally opening yourself in your staff up to every single text message every single photo every single everything that you've ever said by going through an investigation like that. I think one thing that struck me. What's that When this happened was how how old are you? I'm thirty two thirty two That there's a generation of people that when you smartphones differently Their generation people who have millions of texts and images of them in environments with partners Internet partners or not whatever that now are going to enter into public life where this will hang like sort of Damocles. Do you think that it's it's the kind of thing we will evolve over or will be used as essentially this kind of like gendered means of Shaming Women. Well that was my biggest concern coming out of this is that you know the the the pictures that that were used against me. We're not even ones that I knew were taken they weren't even sell fees that I took incentive somebody else they were ones that I didn't even know existed and you can tell that from looking at the images but but there are but I have taken images like that right and I'm not even ashamed that I've taken images incentives like that and so have I think the the numbers show regardless regardless of your age. I think over eighty percent of people have done that so. Let's not pretend that this is taboo thing. That people aren't doing but what we do need to say is that who is it being I used against and it's overwhelmingly women. This is this whole concept of cyber exploitation revenge porn but mine is the first real example where it's been used against a public figure are especially a political figure and the images are published by mainstream by a mainstream publication by a significant publication. And that's the reason that I think the legal action that we're pursuing is is going to be so so important because I don't think that this is an acceptable precedent that can be set. I you know I'm all for the First Amendment. That is something that I don't think that we can question in any way shape or form but there is a line and it comes down to fundamental human decency. and Are you are you enabling bolinger empowering somebody who is literally using this to abuse you and take you down and putting that out for the world to see and in the in the most vulnerable caller will state that you could possibly be in that in and of itself is going to discourage people from running if we don't do something to stop it and so we are pursuing everything that we can against red state and against and you know against the Daily Mail and that's going to be. I want to talk about some other stuff to you. So one thing was really interesting. And I've had a number of conversations on the show is that you're you're very young freshman number two class in a district that was pretty Republican that you flipped wrapped up. And you're in one of those kind of frontline forty seats or so forty forty five seats. Where are the kind of weather vane of the caucus? What do you think about the politics as do you think about your district what you would be doing what you as? You thought about impeachment. Particularly where do you think this shakes out. Do you think those frontline members leading this. Do you think they feel pretty confident about. I can't speak for everybody but I you know I have spoken to a lot of my former colleagues and I think that we were. We were expecting it to get to this point. One way or another right at the the the grievances were so severe and the breaches of conduct were so severe and it was just getting worse and worse and worse and so finally when the Ukraine phone call happened it was like look. We thought it was GONNA come to this point and we didn't want it to but like we can't let this go any further because at at a certain point what are we there for. If we can't provide a check and balance and what are we there and so I think you had a lot of people in Elaine. Lereah did an incredible video about this. That said we we weren't politicians. Who went there to say? I need to be in power. I need to become a member of cars. Most of us weren't even considering running for office until after Donald Trump became elected so the notion that we have to do something just to to stay in office is totally off base so the decisions that are being made are like is. This is this consistent with the oath of office that I took is this consistent with my values and consistent with what I think is right for our country and the president that is being set for generations to come so I don't think for most people. It is a hard decision at this point. I think it's what's harder is making sure that the narrative the false narrative that the Republicans are trying to make in our very effective effective. Unfortunately at making doesn't doesn't overwhelm what we know the facts and that's going to continue to be a challenge. You know it's interesting to hear you say that because I think there's a there's a there's an idea on the right and I understand it to a certain point which is like the Democrats wanted this from day one and it's true there were some members the caucus did but my experience in talking talking to folks like yourself and talking to leadership is basically wanted to anything but impeach. The president really wanted to avoid doing it ultimately found themselves in a position of like we cannot let this. We can't let them essentially help rig the next election and what I'll tell you that most most of us wanted to get he what we we wanted him to go away right like I don't I don't think there was anyone there that was like Gee let's get donald trump elected for another four years. But but I think that And we ran Iran because of that in large part because we felt like there needed to be a check on the president and we needed to get rid of him in two thousand twenty. But I don't you know for the most part we didn't feel like impeaching him was a going to work be was Necessarily something that we wanted to put the country through and that we wanted to focus our time on because we thought that it was important to prove to the people who elected us that we were going to work on the issues that they cared about which was not overwhelmingly impeachment. It was overwhelmingly the cost of prescription drugs the cost of housing the the the the the day-to-day struggles that people are dealing with. And so when you're when when we were trying to we were trying to maintain or conduct congressional oversight and fulfill our oath of office and do what we were sent there to do but also at the same time actually legislate and and so for a long long time in the leadership despite the pressure that they were getting from the left and the speaker was getting from the left of like. Oh my God this cooking criminal. We have often each him which is not wrong but but balancing that with the forty people who did come from these swing seats and who are trying to do you know who are trying to say yeah but like also how are we going to move forward as a country and And then finally you hit a point where there's just no option anymore and I think that you know with the exception of one or two people and that's where we've all everyone on the democratic side. It's come to terms with what I've have been so shocked by and disappointed by is that I know Republicans on my former colleagues that are Republicans also know that they are completely hypocritical to think that this is something that they would allow from Democratic president and that they are even remotely suggesting that this is something that it is that is okay or right or normal in any shape or form but they are willing to just completely brushed that aside because of the colts that is Donald Trump and that is become the Republican Party Katie Hill former congresswoman. It's such a great pleasure to talk to you. And I really appreciate you coming through the anywhere Rachel motto is next thank you so much. Thank thank you so much for joining US tonight. We'll be back here next Friday. Also this Sunday. We're GONNA live podcasts at the town hall New York City. I can't wait to talk to incredible writers. Tony Kushner Jeremy Oil heiress tickets still available on our website and ticketmaster. So come join us. That does it for all in you can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on M._S._N._B._C.. Don't forget to like us on facebook. That's FACEBOOK DOT com slash. All in with Chris.

Donald Trump President Ukraine Rudy Giuliani president United States Congress Senate White House congressman Katie Hill Barack Hussein Obama Chris Hayes Ted Lieu Hunter Biden Republican Party House Intelligence Committee Mitch McConnell
The fall of Katie Hill

Vox's The Weeds

47:09 min | 1 year ago

The fall of Katie Hill

"We did we did hung up wow this is going to be a great podcast we did hung up hello welcome to another episode of the weeds inappropriate but yes you know I take responsibility for it right then there is hills male legislative director Graham Kelly who stories that she had had an affair with a staffer that she and her husband had a threesome with the staffer this is a clear cut case of someone misusing their power over a subordinate or perhaps to subordinates and then from people it's more complicated than that because they were apparently engaged in a poly-amorous relationship that the husband was aware of the like as far as liberal perspectives is yes that was bad but also the publication of photographs of her that were clearly weaponized to be the most embarrassing the squad people but the the next generation of like mainstream Democrats and then it all started to unravel as red state began publishing let's up pivot away from serious issues of of National Security Law and congressional procedure to talk about what could be described as a sex scandal but it has campaign staffer with whom Hale was apparently in engaged in a relationship also with her husband who he has acknowledged and said like it was cooperatives in California the fact that a lot of the photos now I it's important because I keep getting this confused when trying to track the story is that there is a say more broad relevance this trump Ukraine thing I think we'll probably not recur whereas we're hills thing especially in a political context you know the most embarrassing photographs possible and the fact that there were allegedly at least seven hundred photos given to g the Daily Mail and when it goes Daily Mail that's one everything got pretty blown up but he'll has denied having a relationship with the legend if Katie Hill sort of the the other scandal that is being partington and this is this is not the most characteristic move the weeds as ever pulled who is who red state reported on October eighteenth and the you know the story went fr to red state Breitbart a California based conservative website and we know and it it's complicated because there are a lot of pieces to the story and there have been kind of the way that conservatives have interpreted it was like are in the point in the sense that like a lot of freshmen members of Congress have gotten a lot of media attention because they're kind of a younger generation and various things but like house leadership had actually like young first year member of Congress she beat a Republican in two thousand eighteen and this is one of the is like California suburban seeds that had swung kind of hard for Mitt Romney to Hillary Clinton the Republican incumbent got reelected in twenty six and then she beat him she's I think thirty thirty three years old situation raises a lot of questions that I think are dealt with all the time and we'll be on a continuing basis so for those who who don't know this story Kenny Hill is slate of director and interestingly to me is that all of the photographs and everything about this was all focused on the female campaign staffer with whom the relationship would be a very bad idea but would not technically break house rules apparently she went on to work on song like that one of the youngest members of Congress you know was like a an interesting rising star in that sentence had been not just a rising star appointed her to a position the caucus kind of rising gas is one of the the official freshman delegates I'm not not a media star in the sense of with her in office which would also be a bad idea but a lot of the seemed to be weaponising one hill hill is Bisexual Hill and saying that this is all happening because of an acrimonious divorce from hills husband and because Katie Hill is different because she's queer but there a lot very very relevant one here and it's not my understanding is that it's not quite as clear cut as as long as it's just a campaign will she's talked a lot about that and it seemed to be weaponising that which is actually something that representative Matt Gaetz picked up on WHO's actually been one of the most outspoken advocates for fiction over potential ethics violations in successful congressional campaigns so whether this particular thing would rise to the level of you're going to be he's that that definitely is explicitly beyond the Pale however the house ethics committee has also kind of established that it does have jurists the fact that the photos are in the context of an explicit photo of two women in what might have been a situation where they were taken by van sanctioned because of behavior that happened before you arrived in the house is kind of Indus specific case not super clear but it's not it's not as clear cut as she's admitted to the thing that for she's in the clear lake was not explicitly against House ethics rules for member of Congress to have a relationship with a sexual relationship with a staffer until last year of different moving parts of the story Dr. heard you take an intake I mean there is a lake the question of the how the kind of house ethics rules as a v resigned now it's going to shut down because she resigned it's mood it is I think interesting that there is kind of split between their relationship we other publications especially because the Daily Mail implied that she had a Nazi Tattoo based on some of the photographs because again this is the daily mail this is kind of what the all kind of know what we're talking about but I don't like it and I if people have other suggestions I want to hear about them there are attorneys for former representative hill who are now getting involved Congress have done a lot over the years which is absolutely true but I do think it's relevant that the house like literally adopted new rules about this last year right and it's in fact like bad to be doing this Members of Congress should not be having relationships with their staffers it's a very vulnerable position it does seem like a bit of a red herring like misconduct here is real genuinely not sure that that's I mean I think that in order to know that for more about the revenge porn angled though I really hate that term because it's I mean the term we use because I think that the you know the listener couldn't get her kicked out or couldn't get her sanctioned and you know there there we also don't know what the House ethics investigation found because it was obviously like still ongoing at the time so hopefully we'll be of some use in the future that said like the aspect of this that has to do the photos and stuff is terrible but also I don't but like that's that's what changing the rules means and you know on that level like that that is good to see it establishes precedent that and whereas the clearcut ethics violation if it existed would be a heterosexual relationship and I'd also want to add in that and we'll we'll talk resigned when the investigation gets open she resigns after the photos come out and like that's relevant both because she was not taking you know just like putting your head down and going home. She resigned accepting that she had done things raw. I'm not sure that you that she would have resigned. The photos hadn't leaked just because I've seen enough have you know it did give her if not like not not an out but certainly a way to resign without looking like she was is to just purely take kills side of it and you know almost in a spirit of like like you go girl like you know that this stuff has been going on signed with a very clear statement that what had happened to her in terms of the photos being publicized was a miscarriage of justice and she said that she's going to there has to be a first case of enforcing the new rules and like yes it sucks to be the person who is subjected to the new harsher rules when other people have gotten away with it that you know I mean a a reaction that I've seen from a lot of people on twitter is like a Ha- like this is a double standard a woman is being punished for something we know male members cases where having visual evidence gives the story legs and gives people like you know makes it no longer a he said she said kind of thing viewer that was known had been going on and that had like was bad and should stop and when you change the rules like there certainly the fact that they're it seems very very plausible and more likely than not that heels husband was involved in the leaking of the photos is on for for a long time and and sort of who who cares and you know I talked to some people and they sort of talked me out of that position offshoot a legal team of Marc Elias Rachel Jacobs from the firm Perkins Coy who you may have heard of and they they sent a season desist to the daily mail they've sent letters to shen the unusual gender dynamic here is interesting as subplot but doesn't fundamentally change the issue and it's obvious that there are male members of Congress who have done identical things and haven't been punished under these new rules I do however think it's interesting due to work on this issue like quote unquote revenge porn nonconsensual intimate photo sharing which is really unfortunate acronym now that I think about it so you can kind have pictures for in the relationship we don't write the alleged relationship their relationship he's admitting to in the relationship she's denying or the alleged relationship she's denying rather and lake acrimonious divorce with a partner who hill says was abusive and like we don't have a lot of details on that that's not to say that she's obligated to provide them that the first time that this comes up in such a way that house ethics has to engage is in the context of an of congress I think that there is an opportunity to play into ideas of women and specifically bisexual women in positions of power being you know being sexually manipulative and sexually promiscuous that made it obvious that photos like this the alleged male partner and if the entire thing about this and you see we could get into like the fact that these photos wear these photos yeah sure do some dishes but like I think that this very much I've haze brown at buzzfeed he made the point that this is in a weird way makes people feel that there is in fact quote unquote proof that one party is in the right and the other party is in the wrong and that's where I get a little bit into like it's not that I think it's the time those rules were being adopted I think most people thought that was a good change there was a collective statement on the part of the House of Representatives that a form of I do so I think that there are a lot of different moving pieces to this story my first reaction when I saw the when when when these allegations came up was this particular house a house ethics understanding but on the other hand you I think that it is worth saying that sure we would have to run the counterfactual where the photos don't come out and see if she's still ends up resigning and if not we're at the ethics investigation sets I think it's relevant that she doesn't I used to pay people off or pay off staffers who'd been sexually harassed or in sexual relationships with people to whom they were subordinate and it's there is a way to say that this entire story includes a lot of different pieces and Katie Hill did something bad and also something APPs and just as idea threatening sexual relationship you know red state originally described as th- ripple which is really odd list of evidence that he may not have her best interest at heart right now to say the least and I do wonder if that part of the story plays out the exact same way if it's a mailman is went these photos did not go to the New York Times they also did not go to democratic operatives in California where hypothetically hurt Katie Hill in a way that maybe they wouldn't have heard a male member well and especially again that the photos are of the female partner APPs like the first millennial congressional sex scandal because it involves like eight eight queer woman who is in a relationship that is a now estranged husband has been going on a press tour of sorts talking to the New York Post about how Katie Hill wanted him to do all the dishes which I'm like a lot of work kind of the metoo movement hit Congress on you know how people were getting paid off essentially or how the Judgment Fund was being word though it perhaps is accurate I don't like it I'm not liking a lot of words today but like this entire thing just seems like such a interesting test of when you talk to I I was reading an article from kind of a right-leaning site that was talking about how conservatives view poly-amorous is kind of like the fourth horseman of the Apocalypse Downtown at airports hotels coffee shops things like that and you don't know how secure any of that stuff really is and what can fix that problem for you as a virtual private oh you know which is good it's healthy stuff but it tastes great it's convenient got a bunch of different plans to fit your needs with meals designed to enhance energy improve digestion help with weight loss but also dot com slash W. E. D. S. for an extra three months for free I've started to see a little bit it could have been something like day talked to Katie Hill Katie Hill resigned for personal reasons and then they have a special election at some point that's not what happened here also left Labor critique of the kind of reflexive kind of LGBT Rights Defensive Katie Hill which has been that like that you know what what Matt said earlier bad happened to Katie hill all of that can be true it once Louis should take a break but I definitely I I do think we should like I don't mean to give short shrift to to Matt's concerns about the power dynamic here right now is offering a listener sixty bucks I order and then go to car dot com slash weeds that Sikora S. A. K. A. R. A. dot com slash data breaches over the past few years probably also care about online privacy want to make sure your online activity stays private away from hackers other bad actors who want your data passwords credit card number express VPN connect with just one click it's lightning fast it costs less than seven bucks a month if you care about your online privacy and safety to shouldn't be on the web without it protect yourself in your data is you know is the temperatures changing a pip. They they've got a winter sun salad that's nice the weather's changing a pink pepper corn tomato bisque that's really really really nice and then you then that has to be consistent and so I do think that like the extent to which we're talking about this as a consensual relationship has to be shaded by that other factor here and this is and you need to assume you know if you're going to have the principle that you that the subordinate is to be protected from any kind of like sexual come on possible that she was in an abusive marriage and that if that shades into the workplace I'm not sure that it's easy to say that he'll was me to extricate that from the idea that regardless of what hill was in her work place it is also that is like there are these allegations that the campaign staffer was abused in the relationship and there are text messages presumably to is to get sixty dollars off your first order car dot com slash weeds found the news you probably heard about some of the major is your unwind security I'm this is something you should really think about it I mean if if you have a laptop a cell phone like modern person these days you probably use different like weird Wi fi networks are you know whatsoever I think fundamentally right you have a candidate she's running for office you got people who are like they they'd look up to her they the person with power here yes I mean look I think there's a there's a sense in which that's true and also if you hear any stories about congressional campaign daily Detox teas and functional supplements plus this really cool even support from a certified health coach w stand track chef crafted dishes teams weekly so you don't get bland a story recently tried Sikora they make clean organic plan pace meals delivered ready to eat right to your door here's thing these meals they're really delicious they've got a winter sun salad that's if you're on the side of the subordinate and you worry about workplace dynamics being used for sexual harassment like that holds regardless of g hills ex husband that have been leaked have said you know I was in it was a dark time but I stayed and I blame myself for that not a great doc and something that definitely does play into the idea that the power dynamic in the workplace was effectiveness in a coercive way but it's also it's really hard attempting to criminalize this followed by hot legal takes that a lot of behavior that state legislatures tried to criminalise it's already illegal so I have used Google and I've seen that this each other and then after they break up you can maliciously leaked them like is that the yes that is that is generally I mean or not necessarily relationships this this often you know this is kind of a close cousin to a what is if you believe the media and I don't have regular contact with high school so how would I know otherwise on work for her they want to help her win right and not just like they have to believe that she is a good and worthwhile person in order to put in the insane hours campaign workouts yeah and it's it's a devotion a very common form of online's overbilling of high school students is like a you know you will ask someone who you believed to be interested in you to send you intimate pictures and then you'll like it has been kicking around state law for a while the basic idea of revenge porn is that people in relationships have naked pictures the thought of when states are passing laws criminalizing it isn't that kind of fifteen year old boy sends picture fourteen year old girl all his friends it's it's put in the candidates that they that they work for whether that's hill doing it whether it this is an abusive husband who's manipulating all the relevant players clearly malicious aspect however the kind of balance in criminal law between if you don't write a criminal statute that treats that where it gets really really hard to you know what is legit what is Innuendo what is south that maybe would have come up in a house ethics investigation but we're not going to have ends it's not unusual for the candidate's spouse to be both a crucial actor in the campaign and also not have a formal role there share them around the right kind of the revenge porn as it's become sort of in the criminal well the context in which it's the I think we should know more okay guys you want to feel better about what you eat I do but sometimes you know you try to prepare healthy nutritious food turns at Boring Fox media podcast network I'm math raciest PROPUBLICA Sarah Lind Jane Coast in joining us from Chicago Illinois we wanted to talk about represented use a special link express VPN dot com slash weeds now arm yourself with an extra three months express VPN for free support the show and protect yourself that's expressed VPN there's you know it's like it's still it's still bad but I I think we should we should talk about the husband and we should talk about the topic of quote unquote it's a cause and calling and I think it is like an it's not new to the world but it is an abuse of the kind of trust that people as of these sites who appear to be very dedicated to then tracking people down in other contexts and you know those photos follow them that is a much more differently from the sending a few texts around your friends and you kind of set the criminal penalty at such a level that it's not you know sites that on which like ex lovers who feel wronged can post all of these photos of their eyes with identifying information and there are habituate -fornia for example yes nonconsensual sharing of intimate photos is a it's a misdemeanor but it's only a misdemeanor and so there are agreements from kind of anti sexual harassment advocates that it is not strict enough while at the same time you keep seeing these stories of people getting convicted of like sex trafficking taking place and we're the law specifically law enforcement are on our way far apart and so you representative Jackie Speier who's been network expressive. VPN Is an APP for your computer and phone that does it in crypts and secures your data it's rated the number one VPN provider by tech radar scene at the verge tons of others didn't want a six point four or five million dollar judgment against an ex boyfriend who did this he sent links of her to her mother he posted them on Tumbler Oak enj- porn this was actually a new term to me really man I think Jane and I are both veterans of several waves of state laws into people you face a real danger and one of the biggest challenges for women it's generally women who deal with this men have had to deal with this also is mm sites in which people were sharing photographs of their ex girlfriends with the explicit purpose of embarrassing them and you know that were leading the bid and a bunch of other websites and also distributed the plaintiffs home address around and this is something that I found a couple of examples in which there were or whatever for doing things that are obviously less malicious in nature Katie Hill it is a representative in California and in California in two thousand eighteen a former lost officiously too strict for the lesser offense it's obviously not strict enough for the greeter fence and vice versa and so we've kind of hit a point where like in Keller the deputy involved closed the case and asked her out of cancer you this is something I think that this is another example where what that the police had no idea what to do with it there is a New York Times piece from earlier this year from a woman who was among the first to file a lawsuit for this and when she filed a police report the issue of harassment on in on the hill especially of interns and pages also but she introduced a federal bill that would criminalise preventable but again it does get into a real leader on sexual harassment in Congress she was one of the people who is filing you who is working on legislation with Republicans also last year to deal with I'm Friday libertarian perspective to say you can take pictures of yourself or in the context of a relationship or not a relationship and not expect that those Oh people using share intimate photos that make it so that it's really hard to say does every member of Congress who is forty five or younger committed relationships since before easy taking like Kai quality photos on your phone became a thing like there is something of a generational split here where like Kim blaming but at the same time it kind of really is hard to say league not it's not very easy to know quite yet accepted practices are like are we in a place where given existing kind of cloud storage and sharing of files and that kind of the allowing people to take naked photos of you because they could be used against you isn't that just common sense and you know there's definitely an instinct against the I think a lot of these things that come into the public I when there's a scandal involving politician there's often a kind of recalibration blake how much should we be expecting any given innocent person who hadn't done anything wrong to have evidence like this right like is there an extent to which you just should being pathologist because of sexual orientation and the you know relationship practices that she and her husband were engaged in two thousand eighteen I also I wanted just be very clear. Sending intimate photos is just like a an accepted practice among people who are among many younger people in a way but forty-five-year-old sharing photos to millions of people in order to embarrass and potentially you know physically harm an ex or someone perceive as Nex- you could go to prison like it's a really challenging needle to thread so to speak I mean I think there's also especially for people who may have been I think it would be easy to make sure that the that each party in a relationship has control over that there are definite questions here in terms of just how of something that could be used against them or is this really something that is specific to like the weirdness that already exists in this relationship which brings us back to the question of is she in writing a lot of people have started putting little things over their computer cameras because there have been examples of people using those computer cameras or taking them over from other computer voters will be used against you in some sort of public forum but I think we should draw distinction right because Jane mentioned that there's a lot of like mischief here that I think one of the things is like quote unquote revenge born it's not just like sending photos to someone and then they share them with others like that a lot of times there's just being able to do that and especially having control of your own images on your own phone or on your own cloud I think that that's up that you I I have in a little bit of like you could only be taking naked pictures of yourself if you're meaning to do something sketchy them like I you know if you're in the come on like it's not a wildly the other computer networks to take pictures right I don't mind like the you know we have a god given right to take self is of ourselves to make sure we look cute and I right that like hiding an illicit camera in a hotel room taking pictures of somebody unawares and then distributing them that like that is wrong can be done now that there are simply more recording devices in the world but also I think there's always been a firm like social consensus out of many older people that just like I do not have pulling data on this is a generational split that I'm straight up going to assert maybe if someone has like actual data that can prove me wrong that's great but oh come is is like for people to not hijack other people's cameras do not conceal recording devices to not have security personnel at hotels misappropriated being at those resources I mean it's difficult in practice but like those are issues that are fairly clear cut right the harder question right is in a world where photos is that there's a clash between there's like a common sense view that like you have moral ownership rights just prosecutions on this stuff have been on like computer fraud and Lake in anti-hacking laws both because those are where strict criminal penalties are also because over images of yourself and there's like the practical and legal reality that is actually the person who takes the picture who has legal everybody is carrying cameras around in their pockets all the time and so people take a lot of photos of all kinds of things and we're just become free essentially to distribute it's over it and in a digital age just whoever happens to have a copy of the picture has practical control over it right and that's the

director Graham three months thirty thirty three years five million dollar forty-five-year fourteen year sixty dollars fifteen year