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145: Ramon Novarro (Fake News: Fact Checking Hollywood Babylon Episode 19)

You Must Remember This

52:02 min | 2 years ago

145: Ramon Novarro (Fake News: Fact Checking Hollywood Babylon Episode 19)

"To another episode of you must remember this the podcast dedicated to exploring the secrets, and or forgotten histories of Hollywood's first century. I'm your host Karina Longworth today, we bring you the last episode of our own going series, fake, news fact, checking Hollywood Babylon. This is news. This is totally unfounded gossip it's a long way from Hollywood, criticized we're dealing to frankly, the such themes as sex nudity Hollywood along. Long. Today's subject is Ramon Navarro Ramon Navarro was a Mexican actor and singer who apparently had sexual relationships only with men, but due to a combination of his devotion to Catholicism censorship of non heterosexuality in early Hollywood and his own preference for privacy Novara chose to keep his sex life private and his public persona closeted for all of his sixty nine years alive. Navarro was brutally outed when his murder at the hands of two men who he invited over to his house ostensibly for sex came to light, you wouldn't know most of even this very basic summary of who've Ramon Navarro was firm reading Hollywood Babylon here is an unedited excerpt from. Hollywood Babylon containing Kenneth Anger's only extended writing about the star. Ramona Varos ghastly death by beating in nineteen sixty eight brought to mind the bizarre crimes of Hollywood's past here was a man dying as he had lived extravagantly choked in his own blood, the lead art deco dildo, which Valentino had given him forty five years. Earlier thrust down his throat too dumb beasts hustler brothers from Chicago Paulin, Tom. Ferguson chose October thirty first Halloween to play death. Angels for the sixty nine year old Ben her all the boys wanted was his petty cash five thousand dollars, which they had heard from other hustler bums that Navarro kept hidden in his Hollywood hills home. They tore the place apart ripping the pieces the mementos of his long career, which meant nothing to the greedy credence. Souvenirs drenched in blood. Anger details. Navarro's violent death without really dealing with who he was when he was alive up to this point in the book anger has only dropped breadcrumbs here. And there about the star including the claim which we teased in. Our Rudolph Valentino episode that Navarro kept the quote, unquote, art deco dildo engraved with Valentino signature in a shrine to the Italian star in his bedroom. Anger also claims that in nineteen thirty one novato entered a monastery to cover for the fact that he had been forced into retirement by talking pictures. But that's it. Anger says nothing else about Navarro his movies, what kind of star he was or what he did for almost forty years between supposedly retiring to a monastery and getting murdered in his home. So today in our final episode of fact, checking Hollywood Babylon we are going to fill in the blanks left, by anger and talk about who Ramon Navarro was the myriad reasons. His career waned somewhat later than the date anger gives how he navigated his seemingly contradictory religion and sexuality and the truth behind the grisly evening that ended his life. Join us won't you for one. Last fact, check on Ramon Varo. And his obituary in variety. Navarro was described as the gentle gentlemanly version of Valentino, but Navarro's background and star persona were quite different from that of the Italian star. Ramon was the fourth of twelve children born to marry on. Oh and Leonor Samaniego 's Ramones father was a successful dentist and the family was upper class until the Mexican revolution. Around the same time, the patriarch contracted a nerve disease that forced him to retire from his dentistry practice after a few years of struggle. The family legally immigrated to Texas and then moved on to Los Angeles because Ramon was hoping to pursue a career in show business. Ramon began finding sporadic work as a movie extra while also working as a theater usher and a nude model for art classes, Mary and Morgan choreographer and partner of director Dorothy ours ner spotted Navarro when he was working at the majestic. Theater and cast him in her dance troupe. Growing up in his devoutly Catholic Mexican family with whom he still lived Ramon probably would have been sheltered from examples of out homosexuality until meeting Morgan who lived openly with ours ner and working and traveling with dancers for months on end those little evidence that he pursued relationships with men right away. This is likely the point in Navarro's life when he began to acknowledge his sexual preference to himself and to understand how a gay person could have a career in entertainment without reprisal or punishment for who they choose to sleep with. If they compartmentalized their sexuality and their work. Ramone's first major film role was in the silent picture the prisoner of Zenda. The film was directed. By Rex in grim who had helped to launch Rudolph Valentino by directing him in the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Ramon had been an extra in that film. Ingram had been looking for a replacement for Valentino who had been difficult to work with unholy sman and had since left. Ingram's home base of metro pictures for rival studio famous players Lasky Ingram worried that Navarro at twenty three was too young for the part of the rogue Rupert in Zenica. But Ingraham liked the idea of being able to shape a star and retain control over him. He put the young actor through three screen tests. And then finally gave him the part. Ingraham was so happy with Ramones performance that virtually as soon as the Zenda shoot was over the director cast the actor and his next project a remake of Ingram's own black or kids in which Navarro would play a dual role Ingram began working with the movie press to build Navarro up as a rival star to Valentino even having the Mexican actor comb his hair like the Italian actors for photo shoot. This time Ingraham wanted to avoid the egomania which he felt had afflicted Valentino after their collaboration Ingraham gave Navarro the following warning very soon, you will be seeing in print that you are a genius and the reincarnation of Apollo don't believe either statements as I am paying good money to have that published. It was during the production of black or kids that Ramon under mild duress agreed to change his last name from the difficult to pronounce and spell some Aena goes to Navarro. Navarro didn't have the biggest part in the prisoner of Zenda. But when the film was released he upstaged the ostensible top billed star actor Lewis stone. There was a touch of danger to this character, and this performance, but very quickly Navarro would distinguish himself as a very different type of Latin lover, then Valentino as we discussed in our episode about him Valentino's appeal had much to do with his pantomine of defying consent. Allowing women to fantasize about being forced to have the sex the movies assumed they wanted to have. But weren't allowed in polite society to say yes to. Navarro's characters rarely took women by fours. They won them over with their boyish, charm and moxie or asked politely movie, publicity, frequently mentioned Navarro's Mexican ethnicity. But there was little attempt to conform his star persona to stereotypes about Mexicans in fact, though, he would be cast as all kinds of ethnicities some of which he played more credibly than others during the period of his major stardom. He never played Mexican characters. Navarro soon signed a long term contract with metro pictures who now took over promoting him as a star. Although he would continue to work with Ingram on films like where the pavement ends and scare moosh in which Navarro's. Sword fighting hero would become a sensation. Catapulting Navarro to a new level of stardom by nineteen twenty four when scare moosh was released. It was important to have a studios publicity department behind a star, especially if that star like Navarro had a personal life that he wanted to keep quiet magazines like photo play would occasionally print. Rumors about the unconventional relationships of the stars. These items would be written in a code decipher -able by sophisticates and insiders almost as if they were secret message. Ages to both the members of the audience that would appreciate queer nece and to the Hollywood workers who wanted to patrol that clearness and make sure it was kept on the down low with metro behind him. Ramon was able to avoid gossip about his personal life until he started dating a key architect of Hollywood gossip. You're. Prudent, family lovers friends difficult boxes. Difficult bosses. Who are also are lovers. Life can get pretty complicated by our relationships. It's why I host dear prudence, the podcast that offers commentary and conversations all sorts of questions about questions about sex work, family and life. And now, I'm taking the show on the road. Join me Daniel Mallory or Burg and a series of guests at live events in Brooklyn, Denver, San Francisco and Washington DC come watch the drama unfold in person, just visit slate dot com slash live for more info. After the success of Skara moosh Ingram felt emboldened to take on his former protege Valentino more directly. He convinced metro to pay for a location shoot in Turkey for a film, titled the Aira which aimed to counter Valentino's blockbuster the chic with a more accurate portrayal of the air ab- world. It would be difficult to be less accurate than the rape e this chic, but the Arab would still be a fantasy film with Navarro playing a bedouin in love with a Christian missionary. To get to Turkey. Ramon. And the film company sailed first to France there accompanied by Herbert held a reporter for photo play and other publications who had been hired to work as the ribs publicist beginning with this boat trip, and the location shoot how and Navarro would become an inseparable power couple with how revealing himself to be Navarro's, quote unquote, closest friend in the fan magazines. He wrote for to those who knew the real nature of Howland Navarro's relationship, the publicists columns about the star would read as revealing. But most readers were totally oblivious to the fact that both writer and subject were gay certainly nothing about Navarro screen persona read as feminine. And unlike Valentino he didn't tempt the rumor mill by dressing, like a dandy or consorting with strong bisexual women fans were not given a reason to ask questions about Navarro's sexuality. After the air ab- footage was in the can Ingram expected to be assigned to direct the studio's next epic then her, but while Ingram and Navarro were on location there studio metro had been merged with two rivals to form Metro Goldwyn Mayer, then new super studio would be run by Louis b Mayer who thought Ingram was over rated in fact, mayor demanded supervision over the editing of the arrow and made it clear that Ingram would only direct. Ben Hur over mayors dead body in grim had been feeling fed up for a while. And he then announced that he would not return to Hollywood and would instead settle in Europe and make films there this put Navarro in a tough spot because all he wanted to do was work with. His mentor with whom he had made all five of his most significant films to date, but Ramones contract had been absorbed by M G M. And he was at the mercy of the studios new managements in grim wouldn't get a chance to work on them her. But Navarro would the film began production with George Walsh in the lead directed by Charles braven from a script by June Mathis after a few months of production. The film was proving to be such a disaster that MGM fired Mathis, brave and Walsh and regrouped. Fred Nebo who had worked with Navarro twice was hired as the new director and mayor decided to give Navarro the title role. Probably because the only other star of has stature at MGM John Gilbert was unavailable. Navarro was not obvious casting for the role of a Jewish prince putting aside the obvious issue of his ethnicity. Navarro was physically not ready for a film, which would require him to be frequently topless at just five foot six Ramon tended to run a bit pudgy as soon as he got to Rome for the shoot. He was paired with a physical trainer. But in the end the makeup department had to paint muscles into his flesh and his co star Francis bushman had to stand in a trench to make up for the difference in their heights. Ben her was the most expensive film produced at that point in history and didn't needed to make an enormous amount of money at the box office to turn a profit like future, money, pits, Titanic and avatar much of the industry. Betting against it. And as would happen with James Cameron's blockbusters, Ben Hur proved the doubters wrong demand for the film was so massive that it was able to play special roadshow engagements for a full two years before entering into nationwide. General release in nineteen twenty seven. It became Ramon Navarro's signature film and cemented his status at MGM where the only quivalent stars were John Gilbert's and horror. I con lawn Cheney, but Navarro's ethnicity made his star persona more complicated than that of other stars as the nineteen twenties were on and the Hays office became more powerful Navarro couldn't play Mexicans onscreen and romantic parts because there were no Mexican actresses for him to play opposite and the censorship rules forbid, the depiction of mixed race coupling because Navarro's skin did not appear dark onscreen and silent films did not require him to speak in his accented voice. Navarro was often cast as a European while MGM's publicity reported that the. Mexican after was just like an American. As for his sexuality the studio leaked reports that Navarro dated numerous starlets, but they did not pressure Navarro to actually go on these dates for to marry a woman to hide his true sexual identity. One reason for this was probably that his boyfriend Herbert how was in charge of Navarro's publicity. But also Louis b Mayer was not bothered by the fact that Ramon was gay because Ramon was so discreet about it. And because Navarro's movies consistently made money, especially overseas. Even when they weren't very good instead of focusing on fake romances. How promoted the fact that Navarro supported his large family, which was true and credited that support for occupying so much of Ramones time and money that he couldn't even think about taking a life. But then in nineteen twenty eight how and Navarro broke up. How wrote a barely veiled assessment of his now ex lover in the magazine new movie accusing Ramon of essentially having no inner life or at any rate being unable to share his true in herself in an intimate relationship. You get the essence of him seeing him on the screen. How wrote off the screen. He is a theater with the lights out. Even before Navarro lost this key ally. He missed working with Rex Ingram and felt as though his career was at loose ends. It was around this time that he did contemplate joining a monastery Kenneth anger mentions this desire to flee Hollywood for the spiritual realm in the context of Navarro's rocky transition into talking's, but it actually happened earlier and had more to do with the fact that MGM seemed unsure as to how to use Navarro on screen Navarro did reportedly contact a monastery and ask to take their vows. But the monastery turned him down believing that a Hollywood star couldn't be serious about or well equipped four amongst life. There was more disappointment ahead in nineteen twenty seven. He had decided to begin pursuing his childhood dream of singing opera Navarro did travel to Europe in March nineteen twenty nine in anticipation of making his opera debut. But for reasons that remain unclear the actual singing debut didn't happen with these two paths away from Hollywood close to him Navarro put his hopes on the coming of sound. Yes, he spoke with an accent. But he hoped his burgeoning singing career would earn him a place in musical films. He successfully dipped a toe in that water with the pagan a transitional late silent film with a sink soundtrack which featured a theme song sung by Navarro. The. This song runs throughout the pagan rendering its narrative, all the more dreamlike and swooning. Ramon plays the quote, unquote, half caste owner of a South Pacific plantation who has no interest in monetize ING, the bananas and coconuts that grow there. Then an evil white trader comes around wanting to export his coconuts when we first seen Varos. Character. Henry he's being told by his native servant that the white man has come to do business. Henry says I'm too busy for business. What he's busy doing is lying around barely clothed in just a brief sarong eating bananas while they fall in White City woman played by Rene Adirah, watches him admiringly. There's a pan up of Navarro's barely clothed body from his toes to his face emulating, the actresses gays as she's lamenting that she wishes she had made. Her way to the island before whatever happened to her virtue. Henry is hypnotized by the siren. Call a native woman who is being kept on a ship by the white trader who calls her his ward, but obviously has sexual designs on her Henry and this girl fall in love and their desire and simple minded, basic decency. Overcomes, racism and capitalism. The pagan was a massive hit in may nineteen twenty nine and Ramones song became an even bigger success. This inspired Louis b Mayer to take a renewed interest in his star. And the studio mogul wired Navarro in Europe and asked him to come home to Hollywood. So that the studio could capitalize on the success of the pagan that chosen vehicle devil may care was billed as the first dramatic operetta of the talkie era. The film was well received especially internationally and now contrary to angers depiction of Navarro as one of the early sound Erez casualties. Ramon felt like his career was on sturdier footing than it had been since Ben Hur by musicals as John RA would have a rocky road during the first years of the talkie. Era all the rage in nineteen twenty nine. They were considered passe by nineteen thirty and were essentially dormant until Warner Brothers revived the gene Gina a couple of years later with their gritty pre code Busby. Berkeley hits like gold diggers of nineteen thirty three and forty second street Novara was again worried and he again, more or less landed on his feet by agreeing to star opposite, Greta Garbo in Mata Hari. Navarro's character in Mata Hari is pretty ridiculous. He's a Russian air courier of state secrets who manages to seduce Garbo's stripper slash spy moments after meeting her then easily becomes her Mark. But somehow makes her fall in love with him. Which is of course, a stripper slash spies half to do. Not many actors could pull this off. And I don't mean this as a backhanded compliment, but Ramon Navarro was perfect for playing eight totally love struck completely naive idiot. Who you totally believe Greta Garbo would bone once and then develop a self destructive soft spot for. Mata Hari became one of 'em GM's top grossing films of nineteen thirty two and with sixty percent of its revenue coming from overseas and reinforced that Navarro was a valuable international star. And yet with the depression creeping on MGM was in cost cutting mode and mayor asked Ramon to take a pay cuts. He refused allowed his contract lapse and focused on singing. He sings a lot in his last film under his original contract to MGM the bar Burien the bar Burien in which Ramon played a gyp shin. Prince turned crook who kidnaps Myrna Loy white turist was a retread of Valentino's the Sheik and Ramones own retread of that the Aarab it's original screenwriter quit because she felt that writing a fantasy of exotic rape from depression era. Los Angeles was just too silly. Certainly the replicas of the pyramids, and thus Finks erected in Yuma. Arizona are creaky and the film's attempts to reconcile a woman's eventual love for her rapist is not only gross. But completely unbelievable. Ultimately, the bar Burien is a bad movie with some good scenes and images in which two stars who deserve better do their best with very bad material. It takes every opportunity to show Loy almost naked. And because of that the film was altered in different ways by different local, censorship boards. And it may just a small profit before the nineteen thirty four production code took effect and the barbarian became one of many films banned from re release. Navarre overturn to Hollywood from European singing tour and signed on to make a few more films for M G M, one of these the cat, and the fiddle an operatic co-starring the Queen of that John Russian at McDonald was a good choice for Navarro, but it was extremely expensive to produce and it lost money. Then came a terrible choice for the first and only time in his Hollywood courier Navarro would be cast opposite a Mexican actress Lupe allows in a film called laughing. Boy, this casting opened up the possibility of a censorship sanctioned romance. But laughing boy wasn't about to Mexicans in love. It was about native Americans Navajos one of whom is a prostitute aside from Navarro and Valencia's the cast was populated by. Actual native Americans non actors who were taught to speak, the scripts English lines phonetically, laughing boy was based on a Pulitzer prize winning novel, but the studio consider the finished product to be so underwhelming that they barely gave it a release screenwriter. John Lee Mahan was not the only one to blame the casting of an aging Varo who in his Johnny Depp in Benny and June wig looked nothing like the real Navajos. He was cast against. But my Hans criticism was exceptionally cruel. The poor guy was a fag Mahan sneered, and he was an old fag. Then and he looked like an old whore with his hair hanging down and a blanket on Navarro would make just one more disappointing film at MGM then right after new. New Year's nineteen thirty five Navarra was called into studio fixer at a manic says office, y'all last pictures want very good Mannix told Navarro Ramon couldn't disagree. He was paid nineteen thousand dollars to go away. Ramon Navarro's career as a movie star was essentially over. So what did he do with himself for the next thirty three years in nineteen thirty five Navarro had what has been described as a nervous breakdown? Although rather than seeking psychiatric treatment he moved back into the mansion he had bought for his family where his parents and siblings still live. He brought his current boyfriend a swimming champion with him forcing his Catholic family to confront his unspoken of sexuality for really the first time in his thirty six years. While recuperating Navarro began writing an autobiographical play about a Mexican actors disillusion with wealth and fame he abandoned this project when he was given the chance to direct a Spanish language movie, which he did finish. But it was never released. Then came a huge disaster. Navarro made his stage acting debut in London in a musical adaptation of his early hit film. The prisoner of Zenda rapidly losing control of his physique. Thanks in part to a drinking problem that had developed as his movie career had tailed off without the magic of movie makeup and lighting Navarro appeared bloated, even while wearing a corset. But the real problem was that he was unable to project his voice in a theatrical setting at the play's premiere the audience heckled Navarro to speak up. They couldn't hear or understand what he was saying Navarro did not handle this. Well, at one point he broke character and shouted back into the audience. Now, I don't understand you. At the end of the show, he thanked the audience for coming and praised those who had quietly enjoyed the show. This was greeted with jeers of gab back to Hollywood. Reviews were bad and the play closed word made it back to the Hollywood trade papers that Navarro had been laughed off of the London stage. This was not the end of Navarro stage career far from it like many other faded Hollywood stars. He began making a living in summer stock and other small town, repertory productions and tours Navarre's film career also wasn't entirely over. He found some work in the forties and fifties as a character actor in some interesting films, including John Houston's we were strangers and the big steel produced by Howard Hughes and directed by Don Siegel in the latter incredibly Navarro was cast for the first time as a Mexican character in a Hollywood movie. By beginning in the nineteen forties. Navarro began making headlines for a more unsavory reason over the next few years Navarro was arrested many times for drunk driving sometimes on the scene of an accident that he had caused as a result of one car crash a concussed Navarro also suffered two broken ribs, a dislocated ankle and a chest injury after another arrest. Navarro's driver's license was temporarily revoked. It would be notable that anger excluded. These scandals from Hollywood Babylon's portrait of Navarro. If anger had shown any interest in anything about Navarro other than his death. It's fictional connection to Valentino, and the fact that gay hustlers were responsible. Navarro had begun seeking the services of male sex workers in the nineteen fifties. He usually had to be very drunk to take the plunge and would sometimes drive recklessly around Hollywood looking for pay to play boys to pick up after a few more drunk driving arrests. Navarro was actually put on trial in nineteen sixty and ordered to pay a fine two years later. He crashed his car again this time the police claimed that while being arrested Navarro had muttered I am old and I just want to die which he later denied after this arrest. His license was permanently revoked and he was sentenced to fifteen days in jail, although due to legal maneuvering he'd be released after one night. In the mid nineteen sixties Navarro moved to a house in laurel canyon, which would have been isolated for anyone. But was particularly isolating for a Man Who Wasn't able to drive himself. His finances were not good, but he continued to pay small amounts of money twenty dollars here, forty dollars there for sexual services, and companionship, he wrote checks and usually noted that they were gardening for a massage Navarro accumulated a network of boys could call or who could call him if they needed the money on October thirtieth nineteen sixty eight Navarro got a call from a young man who said he had received the former stars phone number from Larry Ortega, one of Navarro's repeat visitors. The caller described what he looked like and Navarro invited. Him to come over later for a drink. The caller said he'd bring his younger brother with him Navarro's one employee his secretary slash driver had the day off. So they would be alone for the night. The two brothers Paul and Tom Ferguson told conflicting stories as to what happened that night. Here is what seems to be true Paul age twenty two had been divorced more than once. And as of the summer of nineteen sixty eight he was newly remarried to a woman named Mary Ortega sister of Larry Ortega Paul's brother, Tom age seventeen had dropped out of school in Chicago and got an into a bunch of trouble and in October nineteen sixty eight he had come to Los Angeles to live with Paul as a last resort around the same time Paul was laid off from his job and his wife of less than six months left him Paul who had hustled men for money before. Decided to try to find some older sugar daddies who could help support him and his brother her a friend gave Paul Navarro's number and told him to drop the name of Larry Ortega, the brother of Paul's now, estranged wife, the boys came over that evening and Ramon and Paul began drinking heavily Navarro told Paul that he should be in movies that he could give Burt Lancaster run for his money. Navarro told the younger Tom that he might be able to hire him as Gardiner. It's what happened next. That's murky. Paul initially told the police that he had drunkenly passed out on the couch only to be awoken awhile later by Tom who told his brother that Navarro was dead Paul said, he then went into Navarro's bedroom and found him. There naked his hands tied behind his back. His skin already blue Paul said he wanted to call the police, but his brother suggested they make it look like Navarra was killed in a robbery and Paul when along with it. But Tom told police that he had left Paul and Ramon alone and had gone into a guest room to call his ex girlfriend in Chicago while on the phone Tom said, he heard screaming he went into Navarro's bedroom and found the actor naked and blue. Leading profusely from his face. The actor was dazed but alive Paul began swinging around prop cane he had found in the house and demanding money. Ramon said he didn't have cash in the house Tom claimed he went to the bathroom, and when he came back Navarro was on the floor dead. The prosecution would later explain that the boys fixed the crime scene to make it look like Navarro was murdered by a female prostitute, or maybe Larry Ortega, they moved the body into bed and wrote Larry's name on the bed sheets and on a note pad. They also stuck a condom in Navarro's stiffening hand and wrote in pancake makeup on the mirror. The barely literate phrase us girls are better than faggots. They ditched their clothes which had blood on them over a fence and put on new clothes from Navarro's closets and left Navarro's body was found by his driver the next morning. The actor had bruises on his head neck chest left, arm, penis and knees, and he was missing at least one tooth which was found broken on the floor. But there is no indication that an art deco dildo had been shoved down his throat. Certainly if such a thing had been found on the scene. No one else who was on the scene ever mentioned it. Navarro had probably choked to death on his own blood flowing from his broken nose Navarro's murder made the morning papers. But it took a while before the full story came to light eventually Tom's phone call to Chicago led police to the Ferguson brothers. It would be almost two months before Paul and Tom were indicted at which point it was revealed in the press that Navarro had died because he had invited men over to his house to have sex with him. This was the first indication to most of the public that Ramon Navarro had been gay. The trial began in July nineteen sixty nine about two weeks before the Manson murders on the stand. Paul stuck to his story that while he had been passed out on the couch. Tom had killed Ramona Varo, but Tom said that Paul had killed Navarro and had convinced Tom to take the rap for the murder because as a minor he wouldn't face the death penalty. Tom said that once he discovered how badly Ramon had been beaten. He couldn't go through with a false confession. The two brothers couldn't agree on their defense. But both of their lawyers blamed the victim in his closing arguments Paul's lawyer disparaged Navarro for having been a drunk and called him, quote, an accident walking around looking for a place to happen. Tom's attorney reiterated. That Paul was guilty but used Ramon sexuality as a tool to mitigate the degree of guilt of both Ferguson boys of Navarro, he said back in the days of Valentino, this man who said female hearts flutter was nothing, but a queer there is no way of calculating how many felonies this man committed over the years for all his piety. What would have happened that night? If Paul had not gotten drunk on Varos booze and Varos urging and add Navarro's behest with this have happened. If Navarro had not been seducer and traduced or of young men, the answers to those questions will determine the issue and degree of guilt of Tom, Ferguson, and the issue and degree of guilt of Paul Ferguson. The district attorney weekly asked the jury to not put Mr Navarro on trial and declared that even if Navarro was morally reprehensible for buying gay sacks, the Ferguson's were worse for selling it. They are hustlers. The DA said, I don't know why keep using those nice words that means a male hor that is what they are. They sell their bodies to other men for money. What kind of a person, do you think does that? The Jerry decided that both brothers were guilty during the sentencing phase, Tom change, his story now essentially combining Paul's original version with his own and taking credit for beating of our with the cane after Ramon quote kept trying to put his fingers up my rectum, Tom explained that he had lied before. Because he thought his previous story would ensure a lighter sentence for both. He and his brother Paul was supposed to get manslaughter. And I was supposed to get off. Tom said, it's not our fault that we got a dumb jury. Both Ferguson's were sentenced to life in prison over the next decades. Both would change and complicate their stories in two thousand twelve Paul claimed he hit. Ramon to fend off his advances of murder. I was innocent. He said of manslaughter. I wasn't innocent even manslaughter maybe could say I was innocent. But I was guilty of hitting him. I did hit him. But I did it on drunken stupor Mr Navarro died because he was so drunk that the blood in his throat the involuntary muscle in his throat didn't work because the alcohol suppressed it if he had turned his head if he had been a little more sober. He would not have died. That's the God's truth. In the same interview, Paul said, he believed the police had planted evidence at the crime scene to make the crime look worse than it was Tom was released in nineteen seventy seven then went back to prison for most of the eighties on a rape charge. Then was re incarcerated for failing to register as a sex offender, then he was released, but then in two thousand five he killed himself slitting his own throat after his release from San Quentin Paul was given a thirty year sentence for rape and sodomy in nineteen eighty nine. He maintained that he had been framed by the prosecutor. When it comes to Ramona Varo, Kenneth Anger's version of the story commits crimes of omission, distortion, and just plain confusion. I don't know what he's talking about. When he says Navarro died extravagantly and extravagantly certainly was not how Navarro lived particularly toward the end of his life when his only expenses were cigarettes booze and twenty dollar asset nations. Hopefully, if you've learned anything from this series, it's that Hollywood Babylon is not a reliable source of history. But then neither is anything else. Taken out of context or read without skepticism or scrutiny if there's anything I hope the one hundred forty five episodes of this podcast has made clear over the past four plus years. It's that our collective memories of Hollywood. Would are often distorted incomplete or just plain wrong. Even when we're not getting our information from a source that has been as thoroughly debunked as Hollywood Babylon. After today this podcast will be on hiatus. I cannot tell you when there will be new episodes because I don't know if this is the last time we speak for awhile. Please know how much your listenership has meant to me this show has only gone on as long as it has. Because there continue to be people who want to hear it and share it with anyone they can any way. They can I hope to join you soon. Thanks for listening to you must remember. This. Today's episode was written narrated and produced by Karina Longworth. That's me our research and production assistant is Lindsay d Schoenholtz. Our social media assistant is Brendan Wayland. This episode was edited by Cameron Druze and our logo was designed by teddy blanks. For more information about this episode and other episodes, please go to our website, you must remember this podcast dot com there you'll find show notes for every episode with information about our sources music used and much more. If you like the show, please tell anyone you can any way that you can you can follow us on Twitter at remember this pod. And we're on Facebook and Instagram to. And my book seduction sex lies and stardom in Howard Hughes's. Hollywood is available now from Amazon or your local independent bookstore. Goodness.

Ramon Navarro Ramon Navarro Navarro Ramon Hollywood Rudolph Valentino Navarro Ben Hur Metro Goldwyn Mayer Kenneth Anger Lasky Ingram San Quentin Paul Ramon Varo Louis b Mayer Tom Ferguson Europe Los Angeles Karina Longworth Tom rape novato Greta Garbo
Willem Dafoe, Karina Longworth, and Martin Scorsese vs. Marvel Round 2

Little Gold Men

1:18:04 hr | 1 year ago

Willem Dafoe, Karina Longworth, and Martin Scorsese vs. Marvel Round 2

"Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men the award season podcast from Vanity Fair. It's such an honor to present this next award the nominees and the US group and I can't deny the fact that you like me on the mistake. Who like you guys won best picture? I'm Katie Rich. The deputy editor of Vanity Fair Dot Com. And I'm here with a full roster roster. Today we have our digital director Mike Hogan who Kiddie our chief critic Richard Lawson hello and our senior writer Robinson. Hi Katie it's so nice to all be back in one place. Welcome back from vacation Mike. You were in Ireland the Irishman but not seeing the Irishman tragedy. I know and then because of my jetlag I haven't been able to catch it yet. Have Ah just enough energy to work all day. I mean that's fair won't be long. Well lucky for us. Martin Scorsese has given us a peg to talk about the Irishman men with a New York. Times op ED. That was published just a few hours ago as we record this We talked about various other new release stuff. And we've got two interviews really this week Joanna and I got on align with Karina Longworth the host of you must remember this podcast. That if you listen to this podcast you absolutely should listen to that one. And we talked to her about her new series about song in the South and then the episode. I will end with Richard Conversation with Willem Dafoe who he might be our first returning guest on this show. He was on for For the Florida project and then came back to talk about White House just very exciting. Let's start with the Irishman when. I suggest that we talk about that movie. Because it's now out in theaters. I did not realize that. Martin Scorsese himself was going to reignite ignite this course has he versus marvel. Debate your head I mean we can talk about the Irishman film itself but the whole idea of Marchesi battling for the last month with Marvel I find what kind of funny are you guys exhausted by this point. I think it's kind of good. And they think that op ED. I offered the rare opportunity for someone to like like. Let me explain by quote because basically the whole war had been ignited by someone interviewing him and then there was a you know a quote that sort of went around around twitter and then he was like yeah. I mean I stand by it but here's kind of more what I meant and like. I don't think everyone should be afforded that Sort of latitude but ABS- glad that that that he got it because I thought the points he made in the piece. Where we're we're salient and interesting and I don't agree with everything in it but it felt like a very the Compassionate Way to talk about the state of film right now. It's interesting because that original interview that ran empire I think was done by nicked assembly. And unlike the original piece was just like a wide ranging like Martin Scorsese career piece. It's very good and this is like one. One tiny part of it. That empire themselves didn't even like capitalize clicks or promote or anything like that. It just got blown out of proportion and I think empire serrated 'cause they only imagine pouring all his energy into this big thing and then that's all anyone's talking about I think stacy was frustrated because it's like this is just a quick answer that I gave let me explain. Explain myself and I like what you're saying that like well I don't know I don't know how we decide who gets to have an op-ed to explain themselves. Who doesn't but I think Scorsese definitely definitely should? Yeah yeah sure I mean it. Sounds like he's put a lot of thought into this and probably my sense is he's probably been saying this for a long time you you know. They're not cinema. He has a whole definition in mind of what cinema is that maybe he created in order to exclude more movies and other superhero movies. And you can sense definitely a frustration with What gets shown in movie theaters? These days you know and we've heard many many leave variants of that argument over the years The whole idea that like adult movies movies that have nuance movies. That have characters that you know. You haven't Read about a comic book. Don't end up on big screens and so this is a kind of very eloquent thoughtful. One again. I think I I. I don't necessarily agree with everything he's saying. I think that in some sense like he did sort of tailor his definition to exclude something. That clearly is not his thing that he doesn't really like And you could probably nitpick it and find many many examples including I still think joker a films that that could rise to the level of cinema Even even with the definition. He has a movie he was planning to produce for a long time. I he might stick up for joker to right. Yes so I mean you know but I think that on the other hand I mean what is what is depressing and weird are all the people who just you know view this as one hundred percent team sport and feel like they are obliged go out and say that. Martin Scorsese Sucks And then I guess what's like slightly less depressing but also a bit of a boar are other people who feel like they have to like smashed. Smashed down those trolls and say when Martin Scorsese talks. You should listen boy but like yeah no truth to that. I guess it's funny because A couple of things I find this comet from Scorsese much more palatable than I do from like Spielberg. We've talked about this before but like Spielberg was the popcorn cinema guy when he started right Joe Jaws was like he was. He was accused of of killing cinema so for him to sort of knock at marvel movies. That's when I'm like really guy but Scorsese what's interesting is that I've been talking to some marvel people about this and Like oh it's media manufactured we here on the ground actually actually don't care that like they've got billions of dollars to sleep not even not even like people at Marvel. HQ But people generally who like made more movies or whatever. They're just sort of like people people working in. Hollywood are like Yalo Board to talk about their like. We're none of us are mad at Mercedes so like who cares you know so edano. The word that was kind of invoked around joker is this idea of like a tour cinema right and that quickly became like an annoying twitter cliche but that does seem to be what he's defending You know and then on the other hand even with Scorsese you could say like this is a guy who built his career on like classy artie gangster movies you know. He took the gangster movie and made it and sort of injected something into it. That probably hadn't been expected so you know I. I'm not a huge fan of like like art versus popular culture in general but again like what are you gonNa you know like I think. I think it's interesting. It's an interesting argument. I think it gets worth having and talking about You know and again it would be ridiculous to say. That Scorsese doesn't have standing to opine and have his views on things to me. The most poignant part of the piece was just you know trying to kind of look back into the past and say okay so so. What is this the era of of cinema that he came up? What is he really talking about And then you see like you know taxi driver which is a movie that heavily influenced joker was released by Columbia. It was a studio movie and to think of a studio now releasing that kind of movie. That isn't tied to any sort of P or whatever If that that would feel you're pretty anomalous right now so if nothing else I think we can see his point that the institutions in in Hollywood Aren't doing the same kind of work that they use to. Even if that work is being made elsewhere There is at least that sort of demonstrable tons of a loss but yeah but on the other hand I feel like you know. The first version of Hollywood was two billion metric tons of shit. That were turned turned out on studio lots and then it was it was maybe you know a next generation that said well what if tried making something actually interesting and artistic in this uh in this format and it keeps going back and forth. You know I I guess what one thing that I find. Interesting about Scorsese and a lot of these guys and he talks about this in the OP. Ed is the the real desire for these things to be on a big screen with a projector with an audience. You know a paying audience sitting together. Yeah I do think that that's probably you know it's gotta be sad to see that sort of go away for anything. That isn't a a you know for the most part anything that isn't a very much optimized for a big four quadrant. Whatever you WANNA call it audience But it just feels like one of those things that like you can be sad about. But I don't know that it's going to change. Yeah I liked it. He acknowledged the fact that someone who made a movie for Net flicks like he is participating in this shift in the way that movies are watched. That marvel is a big part of. Ah I feel like it takes away some of the complex. He's like trying to deny the the progress of history which is a sum this up this Spielberg when he was trying to get the theatrical window for roster consideration to be expanded and failed at that he seems this kind of realistic about the way things happened but I think he's welcome to mourn. The idea that marvel has been so successful full making these movies that as he said kind of eliminate risk in the way that they're made and that has changed the entire film industry around them. And can I just interject a now I before for everybody tweets at me. I understand there were great movies all along from the very beginning but they were always surrounded by many many bad movies you know. And that's probably what is many bad movies. The silent era stands are coming for something that interest to that point might that score says evokes interestingly in the OP. Ed is looking back on his earlier when he was sort of on the rise with a lot of the other you know quote unquote great directors of the Nineteen Seventies. was that back then. Part of their project was defending film as a valid art form so as recently as forty something years ago people still had this kind of a Nazi. That's a stigma that I don't think really exist anymore. Where like movies aren't really art? books or whatever but like so. That's an interesting kind of perspective too and and and I think to have one that and now to see it from his perspective being lost again to some degree You kind of it. It all Kinda ties back into the Irishman assessing the past. And what they've done and being like what is this all about. You know what was going to ask how we feel about this. Being part of Irishman's Oscar narrative and merchant. I feel like you maybe just like I. I don't think score says he thought about the The Irish best picture chances when he wrote this op Ed but it does you make it sound like maybe this all fields of a piece I mean maybe I mean I think that we we all maybe just particularly they'll have a tendency to sort of like in for a lot of you know filmmakers psychology in into their respective films. And and you know for me. I saw a lot of Scorsese's own pondering in the Irishman End especially in the kind of final thirty forty minutes and Yeah I mean this this seems to be sort of companion piece do it. Maybe it was never the plan to write an op-ed for the New York Times about marvel movies. But like you know I think that he's clearly responding to a moment and like I don't know it's nice to see some of that agility from someone you know in his seventies who doesn't really have to do that But I think you know Yeah it all ties together. Interestingly and I think if nothing else it just keeps that movie in the conversation wallets in a few theaters and on its way to being in many many homes. It's a very nifty piece of opportunistic viral marketing for the theatrical. Run of the Irishman. You know I mean let. Let's not let's not kid ourselves like I think if that if that weren't part of the A value of this. He probably would have thought about it but not done it. You know But yeah he's making a case for like go see my movie in the theater and Go see other interesting movies in the theater so I mean there's worse messages in that. Do you think that's going to be to the benefit of the movie in the end though like if the story about the Irishman is always scorsese versus says marvel rather than anything. That's actually in the movie. Is that going to work for it. In the long run I would say not but like what we have to remember as the majority of the people still haven't seeing this movie anything that gets attention in two thousand nineteen is good And and controversies of is a much better way to get attention than than most others more reliable way I should. I should put it So to be in the mix next to have people talking about it to have people say you know what I gotta go see this movie. I WanNa see what he's talking about like what makes him so much better than you know something else that he's attacking like I think. Think in the long run. It's good and I don't think there's too. Many people in the Oscar voting community who are GONNA be like. How dare you attack? Marvel Martin Scorsese like that. Just seems like not a Likely to be a common position there may be a few people who are like. Give me a break Marty. You've had the greatest run of all time and I'm trying to make a living but I don't know that's GonNa Stop Them for voting the movie if they think it's good. Can I go back to something like this. Argument is is predicated on. which is this idea? That Marvel Killed The mid level movie which is not even narrative Jerod if we were saying a few years ago the few years ago it was a big TV's at home and streaming services and Blah Blah kill the mid level movie. And so like. I'm not sure like is it. Is it clear that marvel and you know other events films like that fast furious etc etc.. Like very tall tentpole movies. Movies are some of the things that people to the cinema nowadays. Yes but are they the reason for that. I don't know that that's true like I don't know if that if that exactly lines up and that that has become the narrative that marvel killed the mid level movie when like the movie was was suffering and dying before that right. Yeah Yeah and I think when you have something like the scale is always a question. You'd like Disney just won't make movies like Queen. Ikue is what I always think of is like a touchstone movie that Disney made a couple of years ago. And there's like it made money but not a a billion dollars so it's not worth our effort but this gets complicated when something like parasite in theaters right now which is just like running all over the box office. People are coming to theaters theaters to see this movie. That I think is probably a lot like the way that Scorsese describes hitchcock movies in In his piece about how those came surprised and they were kind of built in this huge experience so the mid level movie like doesn't exist in the way that it did in the nineties the Pelican brief but it's still there in different ways and I think scores as in all of us can take heart in Matt you can catch the Pelican brief on Netflix. Yeah well this is a great movie and I was watching it the other day and lamenting the lack of Grisham thrillers in the theaters. And something that I loved watching growing up but like You know it's Yeah that has moved to another platform and it doesn't mean that it has vanished entirely. It's has moved to a different platform. Do I miss it. I do but I have to wonder like if instead of pushing back so hard on it. We should just better adapt and find aways to take advantage of the new mediums. That people are responding to. Yeah I think like more than they're being one particular culprit big TV's at home or streaming or marvel movies. I think that what kind of is the most instructive to acknowledge about like the death of the mid level movie. Is that kind of like what's what's happening in politics to some extent right now. Is it basically what happened. was just norms eroded. For many many years studio thought they just had to make movies like that and then all of Sunday like maybe we don't and that's that feels like regardless of what the kind of root cause was. That was the pervading sentiment and I think that what that really speaks next to is a more general idea of what it means to make money and what it means for a company to make money And if we're if the the goal is to forever scale in scale and scale and scale the you're going to focus on the big things that will take you. They're not the sort of you know I I recently recorded. I think it's fine to say this episode of our. I guess what brother Podcast Blind Blade. Check right yeah no And it was about the movie Philadelphia and The Jonathan Demme movie from nineteen eighty three which Denzel was in and had just done Pelican brief and that movie made two hundred million dollars worldwide. It was like a huge movie. And it's a sober serious drama about AIDS and it was a studio movie it was from Tristar Sister Company Columbia and Back then twenty. Six years ago there was a sort of mandate like we were a film studio. We need to speak to the current moment. We need to make this film. I just don't think that exist city more and whatever caused that lack of existence I think is kind of moot and beside the point. The point is more to sort of address the ideological of decision making behind the he kind of renouncement of of movie. Twelve so I actually would take that on a little bit. I mean I think that one of the differences is is the shortening of the attention span in technological era and the creation of these kinds of spectacles that set an expectation. And you know you still. You'll always have or maybe you won't always have but it seems like you'll always have a kind of Whatever you WANNA call it Urbane Urbane audience that that wants to watch kind of interesting indie films and character studies and all that stuff and then you're going to have another kind of audience dance? That's like bored out of their mind if there aren't explosions every You know five minutes or less and it feels on the one hand like that's sad and on the other hand that's life and I do feel like there's a strong danger of kind of finding yourself in get off my lawn territory and I also think that you know what will happen next is like video games. Will you know establish themselves as art way. That Scorsese was able to help establish cinema art art. And you know and all the rest of it like all this stuff kind of ebbs and flows so on the one hand I appreciate this sort of Elegy but I also think that it's just part of evolution you know it's just it's just like culture evolves with technology and would be hard to try to to to define yourself as being against against that maybe the problem is the millennials and younger. You Know Gen Z.. People are not going to have enough money to have lawns to chase people off of uh-huh Brown yeah. This is a very Mike. I think Mike an IRA espousing very gen-x ex again. This take time one. Let me tell you about one of the most useful APPs on my phone in a real secret weapon for learning new things. It's hard for me at least to keep up on reading and especially when every week seems to bring some new memoir or nonfiction book that everyone can't stop talking about what you see a reference on twitter review. 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I also recommend checking out the blink for becoming the memoir by Michelle Obama which seemingly everyone has read but me is one of thousands of memoirs or is it you can access on bleakest winkles you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condensed nonfiction books all the books you want an all for one low price right right now for a limited time. Blankets has a special offer just for our audience. Go to blinking dot com slash gold to try it free for seven days and save twenty five percent off your new subscription. That's bleakest spelled B. L. I. N. K. I S. T. blankets dot com slash gold to start your free seven-day trial and you'll also who save twenty five percent off but only when you sign up at blinking dot com slash gold. I well the only pivot I can think of from the Irishman to what we WANNA talk about next is that Pacino was one of many people. The Hollywood film awards which is a all words are made up so I don't want to call it a made up award ceremony but it's one that is especially funding because it's giving out awards it's for you know at the very beginning of award season. It's kind of a really good way to read the chart of who thinks they have a chance this year. And who's going to show up to accept the Hollywood screenwriter screenwriter award in November. which was Anthony McCartan of two popes Richard? I think you might have been as amused by this. Lineup is I was. Yeah so I I I. I was looking into what they actually are. Because they're produced by Dick Clark productions which full disclosure accompanied the my sister sort of works for but like it's so at the the Golden Globes are also produced by Dick Clark productions. Okay so like why. Would they have a competing award show. So this is something that was started in one thousand nine hundred seven by a guy named Carlos Day Abreo are you who was born in. Mozambique raised in South Africa. Now is based in California. He's kind of just like entrepreneurs. Zorzi has variety kind of network of websites. One of which is Hollywood with News Dot Com. He and his wife who was a former prices right model Founded these awards and there is a committee in Advisory Board of people who vote on them every year. But like it's never really clear who they are I think they listed like The director meter was one one year. Richard Donner was one. But it's executives in town and basically. It's this excuse to have a dinner at the Beverly Hilton which according to a piece from the La Times by any coughing alphand from three years ago. is not very good dinner And yet they still get everyone there. They get an amazing array of talent. They're not a very good predictive tool. I think there's a a lot of wonky stuff that happened. That just looking back in the past few years winners but like it's a very very funny thing that like a lot of celebrities complicit not to use that word such a negative term billy but like ours is willing to go along with this award. Show that no one really knows what it actually is. Yeah no that's the thing that kind of Mike Martin score says he was there to present an award to his producer for the Irishman Sienna. Miller gave nor do Bongino Shirley Sanur there and they get get a chance to be photographed like they look great. We're talking about them. So that's like part of the function of it but it is just funny. How like you can have a word show and just hey this matters and eventually if you do it long long enough people will just believe you and show up to do? We know how they are selected. Now it's all pretty shadowy. It seems there's just this advisory advisory board that gets alluded to whenever you try to look into what this event actually is But you know and the funny. They're very self bill. Just like the first stop in award season and an James Corden who's hosted the show dinner. A couple of times with the show was once was broadcast once in two thousand fourteen on television and then he got terrible terrible ratings and they don't broadcasts anymore but they still have had James Corden host a couple times and he was joking and I think it's probably true. We're here celebrating. These movies like type. Three quarters of the room have haven't seen yet because it's only October early November. You like this is America. Like people. There haven't seen bombshell exactly exactly And yet and yet they're still able to wrangle this talent which is like pretty impressive. But I think as ever with these things you just have to follow whatever take the money pass is the death March has begun. I think it's the headline for us. Yeah what do you think these people. They're never going to wear a pair of comfortable the shoes until March feel so sorry. Arches if you look if you look at the four acting winners leaving aside the What are they do they? A newcomer breakout actor. They did turn Edgerton and Cynthia revolt but contractually mandated tearing Edgerton. Yes thank you yeah. They have Antonio Banderas for actor which I think is seemingly a long shot to be mirrored by Oscar. But we'll see Renee Zellweger for Judy which seems Berkeley Al Pacino Further Irishman and Laura dern for Mayor Story. I'm not that's not a bad. Whoever worst idea on their website they have the winners from twenty seventeen win which they gave us Sporting Sir Allison Janney and supporting actor Sam Rockwell took call there and then actress? Kate winslet for wonder or wheel. So the track your can really go back. And if they're negotiating around who will show. You can imagine netflix being like okay. We'll show up if you give to awards to someone from our films and then they figure it out from there if you look at last year awards beautiful boy. A movie. Everyone remembers won two awards in our director for the director and for Timothy Salivate. Hugh Jackman won best actor for the front runner a movie again. Everyone remembers run but hey further down the list Hollywood on Samba Award Vigo Mortenson Mersal Ali and Linda Cartolini for Green Books Turks. Yeah they do. They do spread the wealth. Little bit to down. It sounds from the like winners. That you've mentioned it. Sounds like they mostly honor people who have been working for a while. Oh do you know what I mean like I mean I guess you know. They've got to break out award. But you are seems to trend earned this. You've earned this award which you know we expect Laura dern certainly to win this year for Oscar but you don't even that's not always the case with us or just means you're famous enough that we've heard of you and we want. Aren't you at our Party. It kind of reminds me when I was in college and we would have this end of the year like theater majors banquet it where we will essentially just give each other a war outside audience. For what does she start her own award show like. Maybe it's a good racket aca we should be in. It seems fun. I think we must be some rich person. Who Can? WHO CAN SANDRO? Exactly LET'S DO A. Yes no twitter poll. Aw and to donate started guys on me. Put a deposit down at the forty second street so as you could just call it the little Goldman awards and hand out little gold. But that don't resemble Oscar to get these look like us Richard. The Richards the Ritchie's somebody yelled at me. A publicist yelled at me. The other day At our our summit for saying that Joaquin is not going to campaign very much pointing out correctly that he is on the cover of our magazine and has been doing other stuff but one in you know the theory that we've been talking about. Is that Keen Adam driver even to nero or not likely to be super busy going to all these events the death march events so that may be that may help explain why Antonio Nurse Who's wonderful and I think he's GonNa get nominated but but but gets to clean this award but anyway it's fun to sort of try and figure out each one how they happened. I love it. It was presented by Dakota Johnson to like you forget that they're sort of related. Anything she talked she cut him. Poppy I think in her in her speech. So that's like a cute way to you. Know Not that Antonio has improved that he's Hollywood legend but you know having the next generation kind of tribute you like that and literally beer stepdaughter. Or whatever however they would describe relationship. Her Dad's are having such a good year. Antonio that's really true. I love the Don in Johnson is one of my favorite things. I agree the year. Dakota's Dad's let's make it happen. I can use the second to the other thing. We wanted to talk about responding to a twitter question because Olivia Wilde received Hollywood film. Award for breakthrough director of for book. SMART which I think we've been talking about book smart enough have to know that we're all really happy about that. And we got a tweet from David Hampton asking about the best director race. And whether or not anyone was talking about Olivia Wilde Book. Smart and I responded ended. I think that screenplay might be the best hope for book smart. But what do you guys think. Should we be talking about it. More my beloved mart. Yes of my beloved blocker. Yeah Yeah No. I mean what I would love to see love to see it. Everyone listening to podcasts hasn't seen book smart. It's streaming go. Watch it every person who has caught it on streaming has told me and maybe Emma's liked audience but it's told me wow can't believe. I slept on this one in the theater so you know just us on the phone. Great Time at home. Well and they're definitely they're definitely making that case for it now in in a bigger sense like I was just at the Savannah Film on Festival. which is you know? A A festival has a lot of money and can bring all the big movies and they had not only a screening of book smart but they had Olivia Wilde. They're doing things and like they're they're definitely going for that exact like you missed it narrative. Yeah Olivia was also at the Valium Festival doing some stuff so I think she is definitely working very hard to keep her her film in the conversation and everyone would be so lucky to watch it if they miss it and I would love to see it get in there for screenplay. I don't know like it has two things working against it right. It has this unseen aspect to it and then it has. It's like you know about team in girl. I I mean I know lady bird exists but it has about team girls and it's like a comedy more so even than Lady Bird and so I just feel like those are things that people don't take seriously enough for the Oscars. Yeah to their detriment. Sometimes it also feels like This isn't always true. But like there's not necessarily that much room for more than one like indie summer hit and books had struggles at the box office. And you've got their farewell. which wasn't any summer hit? And so I think there's like a mental sense of that's the slot for and especially because they've got a female writer director from that one as well and that's another kind of unfair quota system that exists but I do feel like the farewell might take away some of book smarts potential energy there. I mean the academy really should address. Is that rule that only one woman can be nominated bing crosby made them do it. They just can't get rid of bing. CROSBY's stands go after the big heads. Costa Okay I. We're GONNA share the conversation tation that Joanna and I had with Karina Longworth. Who is the host of the? You must remember this podcast and someone who we both know Joanna but I think we both get slake mildly starstruck online with Corinna because we both love her podcast so much The and it was it was such a fun conversation to to hear about her song in the South series. Yes she's so lovely. It's lovely to talk to her. I always get a little. Oh it's Carina China around so that's what you'll hear from me on but just to set it up. Her series is about. It's called six degrees of Song of the south. It's about Disney's famously famously. Impossible to find movie from the forties. That's based on the uncle remus stories. It's a has all kinds of problematic. Racial things going on and what I think her series as a so good at pointing out is that it's not just like oh well in the forties. People were super racist and they didn't know better like there were protests in double. ACP was all over this movie. It's not just some relic of another time. It had a lot a lot of cultural forces going into it. That made it that way so you should listen to the show and then listen to our conversation with her about it we like to welcome creed along the host of the you must remember this podcast. Who has a really graciously agreed to join me Joanna to let us grill her about her new season? Hi Karina Hi. I'm thrilled to be grilled. I feel like your show has been around weirdly around the same amount. Amount of time is a little Goldman. I think I remember you coming on to talk about it in the very beginning of our show and it has grown so much and it's been fun to have you back on there. Even though I feel like every season comes comes up. And it's like the Oscars are one thing. But here's all the real stories about Hollywood that we should talk about well. This one As you guys know because you've listened to the the upcoming episode there is some Oscar stuff. Yeah it was. It was very satisfying for for both of us. I think And join and I think both have a ton of questions but kind of the general when to start with it you get into some in the first of the season which is about song himself and Disney and Called six degrees or song of the South but why was it. That song in the South is what grabbed you to build this new season about so. I don't think I had thought about song of the south in a long time but I was. I was working with some people who were looking to do. A television show set in classic Hollywood but about the African American experience of Hollywood and so I was supposed to come to a meeting kind kind of with a bunch of ideas just list of ideas and be able to talk through all of them and I put on that list song of the south and just in learning A little bit about the production of the film. I found out for the first time that it was co written by a white communist screenwriter and Imerese rap who was almost most immediately blacklisted. And I had done a whole podcast season about the blacklist and I had not come across that story so I was just like. Wow if if I didn't know about that about Song of the South I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff I didn't know either. And then those people I was making that sort of list of ideas for they weren't interested in Song of the south. So that freed read me up to you know. Take the time to figure out what those other things that I didn't know about it were and it turned out. There were plenty was the imminent launch of Disney. Plus in your mind at all when you started figuring this out because remember you'd kind of tease what the show is going to be screen. shotting that massive twitter thread they had and it is one of the like really famous absences from the Disney plus land up so it feels like it's in the water in a way that it wasn't even a few months ago even without your show. Yeah well what I started doing this research. It was in March and I can't remember if Disney had been announced by then but it wasn't the first thing I was thinking of the first thing I was thinking of was green book. Just won the Oscar for best picture and so that was starting this conversation about this idea of the black experience filter through the white experience. And there's sort of no more Infamous example of that than Song of the South and So I knew that there was going to be a contemporary conversation to have and then by by the time I was actually putting the research into the writing which was maybe June I was very aware of that. Just needed plus was coming so I was able to kind of talk about that a little bit in you know the episodes. Yeah but it was. It was never it. It's basically a happy accident. That the PODCAST is airing in the middle of the run-up to Disney plus it like it's the result of the show taking a long time to research and produce its result of me Reached the end of my contract with my previous podcast company and then having into having it take months to find a new podcast company. So it's just like a bunch of things that happened that had nothing to do with trying to capitalize on Disney plus but that sort of a happy happy accident. I'm sure they're thrilled to have you. I'm curious you talked about seeing this saw this movie as a kid You and I are sort of roughly. The same age also saw it in the eighty s unit was released in theaters. A few times. Never available as you've mentioned on home video so there's just like a few of us in the theaters and what was also interesting to me. Is that you and I had very similar experiences. Both in the south and some of the other properties you mentioned like Watching bojangles dances. Shirley temple or a Fred astaire put on black face in springtime. These are all things I watched as a kid with the like context of my very liberal mother being like. And here's the context to go with what you're looking at and I'm curious you know like if you thought about that own contacts visit your mom provided when you saw song in the South and then what about people seeing this without the benefit of that context well first of all. I just want to say that for people who haven't listen to the episode where I talk about this. My mother was born in Nineteen fifty two. She was white and Jewish and considered herself to be very liberal and that was a point of conversation in in my household growing up because my father was like a corporate accountant and was not liberal. And my my mother like really hated Reagan and and so there was that dichotomy in my a house and and when she took me to see some of the south she prefaced it by saying this is a movie about white people and Black people getting along or something like that and so that I think that context is kind of a false context. Because I don't think that's what the movie is about It may be it's ostensibly about that but there's so much more more going on that so much more complicated about race relations and you know my mother died in Nineteen ninety-one so I can't have a conversation with her about this. But the fact that she being who she was said that to me in nineteen eighty-six is kind of just evidence of of what was wrong with the discourse around this film in the nineteen eighties. But then I mean I think the bojangles and the Fred astaire stuff is a little bit different you know because that stuff is really more truly a quote unquote product of its time. Then Song of the South which is something that people who want to dismiss the problems with the south often say that it was a product of its time but as I talk about in the podcast it was protested. Protested Wallet was being made. It was protested when it came out in nineteen forty six white film. Critics accused Walt Disney of wishing the emancipation. Proclamation had never happened so yeah it's a little bit different. We all of us on this phone call are white people and I feel like often you find yourself situation when you're talking about race in Hollywood where you kind of figure out what story you're inclined to tell and as a historian like you're doing amount of research and you're sending a Lotta historians but I'm just curious about the way that you went into talking about this like to talk about it as a white person because it's something that I think trips up a lot of people and have a hard time addressing these things and like looking at things for ourselves like you're saying where you're you're presented something as being one thing and then you look at it again and realize that was kind of white privilege giving you a filter on something like song south. Yeah well in terms of my white privilege. I've just tried to be transparent about it. I mean you know. I'm not trying to pretend to be anything. I'm not to have experiences that I haven't had And then in terms of just trying to be like respectful and get it right One thing that I found really useful was reading the work of blackstone historians and black historians in general and throughout the season. Like when. I'm when I'm relying on their research as much as possible. I quote them by name and so one of them is Donald Bogle who's a great blackstone historian. Great Film Historian who is black. And who has done a lot of work on black history in Hollywood And he wrote a whole book about the way that Hollywood uses these sort of minstrel stereotypes which was super super helpful. So when I'm talking about you know the mammy stereotype. I'm not pretending like I invented these theories or That that research is entirely mine. It's I'm trying. I'm making sure that I'm quoting somebody like him. As doing this groundbreaking research and study of it. Yeah when I think about what I learned in my film history classes like there were some lake studies of black films. Like kind of has a start in the sixties and seventies like. You're doing this research seeing what's out there is this as under research as it feels to me being a college student or is this something that like like so many things that happened on the podcast like the history is out there it just goes. It's not included in the Canon. The way that it may be needs to be well. I think it's a little of both. I mean there are some good books out there but you one of the things that I've wanted to do at various points is is try to find out more about what it was like to be an actress who was African American in nineteen eighteen. Thirty seven like what their day to day experience and there's just not a lot of documentation of that You know things like who was doing their hair like what was the sort of interaction with agents like things like that. It's very difficult to find that information. You get like one line in one book one line in another book but it's it's stuff where you know. Unfortunately unfortunately I think it wasn't as preserved for posterity as white history was. Yes it's it's kind of amazing to me. Because I've I've been listening to your podcasts for years you're always like I read these five books and this is what I found and when you're talking about specifically the writing of Zippy Dude on this third episode of this season you're like I looked and I find that I need and I'm so curious why you think I mean besides the obvious why you think this particular thing has been so under reported over the years. Yeah well that's different from black history in Hollywood that's song of the South So do was Reno ridden by two white guys and it won the Oscar for best song And so that the fact that like there there are many books about songs and Disney movies. There are many books about how Disney animated films are put together and they really don't include a lot of information about song of the South at all And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think I mean I think one was that the the movie was not a big hit when it came out like it eventually made a lot of money because they released at four times the ethically after the first release. But it's it's I'm not considered a classic the way that something like new ideas and then the other reason of course is that they in terms of books and things that have been published after about one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. When Splash Mountain came out I think Disney has sort of discouraged information about this film being part of the official record or the official Canon? Yeah I think the thing that I and this is about also the thing that was such revelation for me in this most recent episode. I think where you talk about. How the history of minstrelsy got wrapped up into all these early animated characters including Mickey Mouse with the white gloves? And the kind of exaggerated black and white face and I think minstrel see is something that is such a huge part of our cultural history and this bike Kazmi me realize it even more that we just don't talk about and don't see because it's kind of grotesque to revisit. Do you feel like having done this. That's a mistake in some way. Like I I mean not like should we reclaim mincy but like are we hiding it to the point that we're like denying ourselves understanding culture and understanding how race worked in things like song the south. Well Yeah I think so and I also think that's. That's kind of a larger point of the whole season which is like the fact that song of the South itself is not commercially available in the US turns it into this sort of fetish. Object right it gives the scarcity puts an alert on it that it doesn't deserve as a work of art yeah And so and the same thing with minstrel stuff like you know there's that saying in In ghost world where Steve Buscemi's character like Like collects like the old sort of just like sambo advertising stuff. You know the the idea of doing that is because we've we've kind of put it in a black box you can't see it And you know there's Henry Louis Gates the historian he recently did A. PBS Documentary and book about Reconstruction and that. I was super super super valuable for me in researching that period and sort of understanding what song of the South gets wrong But in that book. Like if you buy the if you by the audiobook or the the the kindle book or the physical book he puts together Just a short sort of library of minstrel imagery in You know sort of public space so political posters newspaper cartoons advertisements. Things like that and I mean that kind of thing is so important for us to understand happened and understand why it happened and understand how influential it was on history and on even present culture So yeah I just. I don't think that these things things should be locked up but they need to be discussed in context. One comes up that I found so fascinating that you talked about specifically as it pertains to either dumbo along the south. Is this idea of animation. Black face as in a white actor and you talked about the Amazon Andy Radio Show and how those are it started as to white actors doing these black stereotypes. And then you get these animated properties where you have white voice actors doing these like you know these black lack of black crow stereotype characters that and that's something that never occurred to me honestly until you talked about it that they hadn't hired black voice actors to do this and I don't know I don't know that I have a great point there. I just want to say that that blew my mind. Yeah I mean. It wasn't something that I really thought that much about either I I have to say too. I'm not a Disney head like people. There are people out there who are super super into Disney. who think about this stuff all the time? And that's not the perspective that I came to you. You know doing song of the South as podcast season so I have talks like since I've these episodes have started coming out. I have talked Disney people and they know you know sort of way. More about the controversy about the crows Dumbo than I do But I you know I do think it's. It's you know an unexplored part of the history of Hollywood that the you know there was such an aversion to Giving sort of a fulltime job to an African American person that something like Amos and Andy was was employed. White people. Yeah I WANNA get into the Oscars because as you were mentioning the beginning like these most recent episodes really talk about them a lot and for the having mcdaniel episode you play the woman who is introducing her fainter who was in her own civil war movie. And how incredibly smug she sounds about giving how to maintain with. That's awesome. I mean that's that's something that we see in the Oscars. Now right like this kind of impulse congratulating yourself the door toward Hollywood congratulating itself via awards is kind of a running through the entire organization right. Yeah absolutely and you see it again in the third episode where I talk about James Basket. Who played uncle? Call Remiss getting this Honorary Oscar that was presented to him by Jean Hersholt before they had a humanitarian prize named after Jean Hersholt but it clearly significant that the guy who they then name the humanitarian prize after was chosen to be the person to give the Honorary Oscar to the guy who played uncle remus. Yeah I mean like how to make Daniel because you talk about what kind of a revolutionary figure figure or a subversive figure that she wasn't a lot of her work outside of the screen and her speeches so emotional issue seems genuinely moved to have this Oscar. Does that when you think about what it means for her to have won that Oscar. Does it kind of like tamp. Down the cynicism about Hollywood congratulating itself that was a meaningful moment for her and it feels like so meaningful that that she won that Oscar at the time. Oh yeah no it's meaningful things can be more than one thing. Though I mean like like with James Basket like his wife was writing letters to Walt Disney like please fight for my husband to get this thing. Because he's dying and like it'll all be worth it if he gets his honorary Oscar the that we let that offers powerful it is insane. You know but it's but you also can't discount the emotional power especially back then. Yeah especially given these were the two first people of Color to win Oscars. Yeah it's so interesting because at the time you know we think about Oscar history. At the time there were so many of these honorary Oscars outside the regular categories that I have to think campaigning like an aggressive campaign from Disney for an Honorary Oscar for her performance or for even Zippy to win. Best Song what. What was what was an aggressive dizzy campaign Oscar campaign like in in these early days when things were? I don't know I so unregulated. I would guess I would say right. Well that's the thing is like. It was sort of not campaigning. In the way we think of today with for your consideration nouns but process was campaigning because there was no transparency urgency about voting and and also like. They didn't have the as far as I can tell. It wasn't the thing that it is today. Were like nobody. Nobody knows who the winner is except for the accountants until they announce it at the broadcast. Like yeah because the president clearly knows what she's going to give it to Daniel. Yeah and so I think think I mean I'm not sure I'd actually don't have any mcdaniel knew. She was winning when she showed up that night but I have a feeling that like they kind of allowed her to show up that night because she was winning and that that it might have been even if she was nominated might have been harder for her to actually get in the room if she hadn't been winning but that's a I mean that's obviously a very specific that case Do you get to this later as you get to the press. I think about Mo- nick. When she dressed for ruining her Oscar like intrigued mcdaniel feel like that's such a A reflection to me of the the power of that win still. Yeah well you know one of my listeners actually pointed this out on twitter to me If I had known that I had forgotten after she won on the Oscar. Monique said that she was going to start. A bio pic of Hattie mcdaniel which never happens and and when you think about the story of Hattie mcdaniel's basically like she went. She's because the first person have colored won an Oscar in any category And then instead of of recognizing this incredible achievement and her talent and and creating roles to suit it. Hollywood doesn't really know what to do with her. She she is in this. You know pretty good John. Huston film called in this. Our life. where she has a good scene where she actually acknowledges contemporary racism but other than that. She's mostly going back to playing domestic workers and so seven years after she wins the Oscar. She's playing a small thankless. Part is a made in song of the South or as a cook. Sorry so and then you know. Monique has spoken about kind of the same something happening to her after she wants the Oscar precious where it's like Hollywood does not know how to support a larger than life. African American talent like hers. It doesn't know how to give her power behind the scenes and so she you know she ends up. Basically like not having significant roles in Hollywood after she wins her Oscar. So when you talk about Green Book the context when you first started thinking about this does does a win light green because so many people will ring their hands and like Oh my God what. The KADEMI has fallen so far. This is the worst best picture winner in history it does it. Does the historical context like well. What did you expect from these guys like? Does it feel like it's just the same thing always does it. Did you hear the frustration that maybe we should have gone beyond this by right now. Well I think that history is a pendulum that swings back and forth and In in researching this season I came across the term. I had never heard before. Which is the thermidor effect which basically means like when when I hit like history or culture advances in a progressive way? There's always a backlash it always snaps back. And so I think it's pretty clear that that happened. In the sixties to the seventy s with the civil rights movement and Nixon comes in and Hollywood becomes pretty conservative in the early seventies with movies. Like dirty Harry and stuff which I talk about later in the season and then it seems like it's happening now you know from the Obama Administration to the trump administration restauration. And it seems like with Hollywood there you know two years ago or whatever it was there was this thing of like well. If you're like an old guy who hasn't worked in a while we're GONNA kick you out of the academy and it seems like then people who's like sort of still have the voting rights. Were like close to that level or like reasserting their power yeah or like Moonlight Green Book as a backlash liquid lashes equivalent to harassment at trump. Right that is a more articulate way of saying that speaking of Oscar voters and being around them. I saw that you were at. The governor's words which has record was a couple of days ago. And like like for just this picture of Leeann Avert Mueller and Quinn Tinos is that is incredible. It looks so First of all I want to say that I have never been to an Oscars at all and I. I really fought to go to the governor's awards. Because I was so excited about the four people they were honoring Lean avert me David Lynch Wes Studi and Gena Davis and and so I actually took my husband's producers ticket allowed me to do that so thank you to Rome Bergman but I so yeah it was. It's just super exciting to be in that room and you know at that scene. I Like I can't i. You were correct to say that I was on the fringes of that photo I was I pushed in Joan kind of pushed into it. I did not have a meaningful interaction with lean avert Mueller I guess I could have but hurt like she. Her English is not great and her daughter was translating and I feel like her daughter had was extremely overworked as it was so I didn't WanNa try to like push it. I was extremely just happy to be there. I feel like that's exactly what any of us would have done just to have witnessed that in person in marvel at it. I know that in Ryan have been a film festival hopping this fall. Paul because You know knives out is playing a bunch of different festivals. I I also believe that you guys make an effort to see as many films cancer too while you're at these festivals. Is there anything on on the festival circuit this follow that you were really particularly delighted by that. You're pulling for in the Oscars this year. Yeah well actually. I mean the only festival where I was a ED time to see anything with Toronto but I saw few things other than knives out and I mean two of my favorite movies of the year so far movies I saw there. And that would be marriage story and uncut gems. UH-HUH I like the uncut gems. People were at the governor's awards the other night but the room was so big that I never saw them. So I'd like I. I knew the Safdie after you brothers a little bit for. When I was a journalist I did a story about them for their film daddy long legs in the La weekly which was kind of the first big story I did for the La Weekly? So now I haven't been able to see them Like on this uncut gems tour so josh and Betty. I really loved the movie. You're listening to you that they are they got an Oscar. Track movie feels feels like somehow unlikely to me. Still even in cajones is great. Well I'm super excited for them. And I hope it's an Oscar attract movie you know. I I hope that Adam Sandler at least gets nominated because I think he's super deserves it. Let's let's circle back to the south and Katie and I were having the sexual mini-debate before before we hopped on the call with you which is Should Song of the South be available. And if so in what form should be available for or any kid to stumble upon a Disney plus should it be available for historians to show you know with that context that we were talking about You know or should it just be bolted forever. What do you think so I would do is hung of this out that same thing I would do with birth of a nation and arguably like maybe there are other movies? You could do it too as well but I would would try to create some sort of situation where like you can't watch the movie until you can watch a documentary about it and like the documentary doesn't necessarily have to be from a super liberal point interview it just has to be historically factual is there any kind of documentary that exists. That would actually give you that information or is it. Do you have to listen to this podcast. In the meantime as a first song of the South I think it's it's the podcast. Yeah Yeah Right. Well that's their curriculum that we're GONNA it's really fascinating. I mean I'm a huge fan one of your podcast. Generally but just you know there's just so much that you think you know and you don't know or even ever even thought to wonder about That you're presenting in this series and in this particular season and so yes everyone listen And thank you for for doing it Carina. Thank you guys. I love your podcast too. So Richard. Now let's listen to the conversation that you had with Willem dafoe the star of the lighthouse. So I'm imagining was much more pleasant to be with in person than his character in the lighthouse. Well A he was great. But you know Brett our producer and I had to check up to Maine and take a boat to this island and it was really exhausting ten. It's frightening actually Yeah once we got there You know defoe is you know we've had on before he's he's just a thoughtful interesting actor who picks movies movies very. Interestingly like he has interesting taste and to be kind of got into that kind of what what interests him And then yet talked about the lighthouse which is quite a towering performance formats from him. Well I have the distinct pleasure of being in studio today with the Great Willem Dafoe. Thank you for being here. Thank you so I'm just going to get right right there at the top of things and ask the lighthouse. What is what is the lighthouse about how God It depends on the person. Yeah I suppose like Russia test Maybe I mean it's It's two guys in lighthouse that There lighthouse keepers. One is an old hand. He's the regular lighthouse keeper. And then there's kind of a Newbie who's WHO's there for the first time and basically There to be relieved after a couple of weeks but bad weather comes and they don't get relieved. Things go very wrong after that they do. Indeed I saw the film at Cannes and I didn't know what to expect back. Because I'd seen Robert eggers. The the writer director his first film The witch and there is something totally similar. I guess but this is also something entirely. Its own beast. Some curious like when you first laid eyes on the script. Wh what did you make of. It ended relief out to. You is something you just had to do right away. Well To give you a sense of how the script came to me I saw the witch And I I didn't perfect circumstances in the respect that I had been away working I am. I didn't know anything about it and I went in cold and I liked it very much and I thought wow this who made this. This film has a really distinct voice. I want to meet this guy so I talked to my Representatives and arranged a meeting and met Robert and we we get along fabulously and agreed that we should work together and it took a while but This is the first thing that came gain press to do he presented to me said in a very direct it was you and Rob Pattinson. It's basically two hander. Hander here's the script and it was a beautiful script. I loved the text. There's an elevated language. I liked the character. I I liked the events I know we would be shooting in nature in very extreme nature so I knew that would road it. It would be an adventure and I'm like Basically the Ark of the characters in what happens to them so there was a Cornucopia of clashes had bad so It was a no brainer. Do you at this point in your career. You've worked with so many fascinating directors which I do want to ask you about In a bit Do you ever I mean do you get daunted by things. Do things like this production. I'm the shoe. I'm sure it was very difficult with the elements. And the you know Are there projects where you just were like scared of in away all the time. Yeah that's kind of the point right now. I think It's human nature to seek comfort. Take the familiar but as an actor. you're given these relatively safe opportunities to challenge that that nature and to Do things that you don't know how to do and The pleasure of that is you learn things and and You have the possibility to be transformed through stories and the experience of others The experiences variances. You have telling the story of others. And that's that's the beauty so I've find that in I think you'll hear the other actors say this as well when you have challenges it pushes you in a way to find a new way of being a no way of working working. And that's what keeps US alive. I mean speaking of other actors Your Co Star in this film wherever patents in Has had a really interesting career trajectory. He became very famous with Harry Potter. And then the twilight movies and since then has done I think a remarkable job of finding these interesting directors. Doing his a little kind of already projects. How important was your rapport with him in in shooting a movie? Because it's just to you I mean and and obviously Robert Behind the camera but like did you guys work to establish that kind of connection before shooting or did it come on set. Not really we. We had some rehearsal but the rehearsal was very particular because the film language is so the language of visual language is so rich that a lot of the rehearsals were basically to find out where the camera is going to be and basically to put the scenes in the frame of the camera. Normally you you play you play around with the scene and then you set the camera here. The camera was sat. And you had to kind of submit to that frame right which is interesting way to work because it really focuses casse issue it takes away certain choices but that can be a great source of power. As far as Robert. I agree with you one thing we have in common is I think we both Are turned on by strong directors and strong and you know people that have very very particular ways of making movies so we had that in common we have very different characters and very different Our position in the movie is very different so there was nothing really to talk about. There was it was really about the whole movie was about coming together or not right and That was the process of making the movie. I mean because I start out kind of Lording it over him and then it becomes a little bit of power struggle initially he's quite reticent but then with time I push him. I'm in the character pushes his character character to a point where he kind of pushes back and then difficult things happen Do you remember a particularly difficult thing while shooting was it was it the the water was at the. What was? It's the conditions that that's also the pleasure. Because that tells you what to do that really informs everything saying that you can act a cold pretty easily. Exactly exactly when you're laying in you know five inches of freezing water and Darts been poured on you. Yeah you don't even think about what has to happen because it's happening right. So you're receptive and you're you know you're experienced something you probably is beyond your imagination. Yeah Yeah it's like it's verite. I mean it's just it is so I liked hearing the story about using the witch and seeking Robert eggers is is that have have you worked that way in the past where you've seen a film and been like I gotTa talk to that person a little bit. Yeah a little bit. I mean I not so specific of seeing one film and saying hey I gotta talk octave this guy that that's happened some But I've cultivated relationships With Wes Anderson with Sean Baker. I mean I've sought them out Because I like what they're doing and then I arranged to meet with them and we talk and then when there's an opportunity that makes sense we've worked together I'm always interested in those careerist terms because you know a lot of the actors that I really love like yourself. I find that when I asked him like. Do you have like a career strategy. They always say not really. How much have you had to sort of pay attention in your career to like the sort of economics of the business of it or have you been able to be pretty artistically minded pretty artistically minded and for almost thirty years I worked day to day hey apathetic company so that was my main job and then occasionally it started out i? My identity was theater actor. And then people saw me at the theater and Most notably Kathryn bigelow and said You know would you like to to do this movie that I'm doing and I did it and I enjoyed it and then I wanted to do more but even then I was day in day out mostly at the theater and and then slowly I got an agent. I got a manager and started doing the business of having representation in the career but still day to day was the theater and I could only do so many movies now now I still do theater. But it's in case by case it's I'm not no longer with the company the wooster group. So that's changed things but really what set the tone was you you know. Mostly my identity wasn't in Hollywood for example right and I went to situations that I thought that would be exciting and thrilling. Really I on some level I mean. It sounds irresponsible but I I'm best when I'm kind of have a little off balance When I'm you know I cultivate Curiosity so I've been kind of all over the map in the kind of movies I've done the kind of roles I've done and I don't say that prideful that's just the way it was That's just the way it is is. That's where I'm lead so in that definition I think most people that have the strongest career plotted careers. are people that perfect Perform Persona and then that can be plugged into various projects. Now that that can be a wonderful thing we've seen some actors that you don't think of as as being crazy versatile but they worked beautifully in movies So not. I'm not a snob about that. It's just particular to me. I'm in I I. I don't even think of my self as an actor. Sometimes I I am always kind of Ray thinking what I do so I looked for opportunities where I can do that. You know the challenge challenge that idea of being an actor. It's like I have nothing out. I I want to have adventures. I want to be transformed. I WanNa learn learned something and then the things that I learned I can apply to Challenging how I think in challenging challenging my sense of self other than the obvious physical challenges and the verbal challenges. What did shooting the lighthouse kind of teach you or what is as you what is your takeaway from that? That Rob Eggers knows what he's doing that. I always like movies where the making of the movie at the movie is very is some sort of record of the making of the movie and of course this is you know. There's very disciplined informal formal Cinema language to this movie. It's very clear so don't get me wrong. Not Cinema verite like where recording things that as they're happening but when I see the movie it looks and feels like what we went. Okay yeah that that must that must feel nice. You're it is it is it gives you know it helps you. Connect the dots in a funny way to comfort. You know because the Matrix films are so oh collaborative that sometimes not just myself. I see this and other people you know you can do beautiful even heroic things things and have them get lost and you can do not so heroic lazy things and have them be elevated by the nature of editing. All these these things so when it's true to what it felt like when you're shooting it it's I duNno. It's it's I like it. It's something that you who Yeah I I can only call it a comfort. You know I I would say in the past couple years. You've between the Florida project and add attorneys gate eight and now the lighthouse and motherless Brooklyn like you've had a really interesting run of films of late and does it feel like a particularly exciting time for you right now. It does. Yeah it does. Yeah because I'm I'm excited by performing and I've been given some nice opportunities and they keep coming so I'm I'm happy about that. It's I'd be a liar if I said it wasn't a good period. Do you have any particular the project that you've worked on. This is a hard question. Maybe that can you kind of like has a special kind of glow in your memory like is there. Is there a piece that really stands out as a kind of cherished item item. So many maybe does that. Make me a narcissist a little bit like that many. I I mean you know occasionally you're also disappointed But for the most part I'm not into Regret are you a big sell successor of your work. I mean 'cause I talked to plenty of actors who never watched the Finnish version. I watched them yet. I watch them but I don't study them. I watch them just so I know so I can talk about them the right like this and also. I'm curious how they come out but it's very hard to really you know it's so tied up in in the shooting and when I watch a movie I can't really see the movie. I trust other people to see it better than I can because technically I can notice certain things. Oh they use that tech You know I thought there was a better one oh that's not at all like. I thought it would be we all. That's better than I thought it. All those things are happening in on not to mention. Oh I remember that dad feel so there oh I remember the director. It was mad matt. So and so this sort of thing That's what I'm experiencing right. I'm watching a movie so I don't watch it to say like Ooh you did that or Ooh Ooh you you were lazy. They're rule. You know why did you do that. I don't do that kind of analysis. Yeah that's probably healthy so you know. Also it's over over time to do the next thing. Yeah and I think your lessons are learned. You know you gotTa Develop Ella Discrimination. But but you don't want to think about this much. I think your lessons are learned in to Italy. And when you make a mistake I think you feel. Will you feel the hurt stab. You won't go to the same place so I kind of gathered. Just if you're seeking out people like Robert Egger Sean Baker that you're a pretty voracious film watcher like in your in your spare time or Yes yeah I like film I. It's like I seldom watch TV because because there's too many films dicit. Yeah Yeah but but I know I know plenty of my friends have more film culture than I do. I'm always a little embarrassed on There are holes in my film knowledge. Yeah so I'm not as ferocious as some you know I I. I do other things as well. I really lot when I prepare for things Or I try to not develop projects when I'm thinking about projects that are down the Pike I tend to like to read and Belated material did you read any fascinating fascinating light housekeeper lower about quickies ident- have do so much because Robert Eggers so damn good at research and he loves it so much. Yeah I mean he he really is the kind of guy that believes that you know to understand what's going on now. You have to be clear about the past. I think he he thinks that through the past we can talk about what's going on now and is so well researched and shares that research with you when I came into this. He had videos of interviews with light housekeepers. He had UH period footage. He had all this stuff for the dialect After the accident he had songs beautiful pictures all this stuff and things to read so there was plenty to get myself shelf in the mood. Yeah I- lastly do want to ask you about motherless Brooklyn Film You have come out this fall is it doc. Different experience to Edward Norton directed the film It's a different experience to work with the director. Who is kind of such an actor? This is his second film that he's directed. But you know that is there a the approach. Different you Well you gotta remember. Edward did something amazing here. He was wearing so many. Yeah so he's he's He's starring in the movie he wrote the movie and He's directing the movie and I'm in saints with him. There's something beautiful about there's a director. But he's in the scene with you and he's also the actor and he's also the writer so there's less a sense of being watched and call all in response. The call and response happens inside the same right. That's not to say that he doesn't have adviser or give you notes between takes but there's something about the outside. I is sort of no longer there. It's the inside I So I've done that before for. I've worked with directors that have performed in more in the theater but also in films and it can be very satisfying because it's a a little bit like You know boxer being in the ring with his trainer your how sitting on his shoulder rather than you know off to the side. You're in it by yourself and then you come out occasionally and he gives you advise he or she. I suppose Gives you advice. It's I don't know it's it's there's something more direct about it and more thrilling urine. You're kind of it's risky. You're kind of in freefall. Free Fall because he's got his hands full but it was great. I really admired how he was everywhere on the set and Uh He owned everything everything. There you know Van Gogh would say. I am my paintings while motherless Brooklyn as his Edward Norton Yeah that's great I mean I I guess in some ways it's almost like they're throwing their chips into their like okay. I'm going to be on screen so we're all in this together. Yeah my wife says the same thing she often has performed her films and she likes it because she's on she's in there her with her

Hollywood Martin Scorsese Disney Oscar twitter marvel director Walt Disney Joanna US Karina Longworth New York Times Ed Netflix Oscar Katie Rich White House writer Al Pacino
The stars come out for Podfront

podnews

03:05 min | 3 months ago

The stars come out for Podfront

"The latest from our newsletter at Pod News Dot, net. pulled. Franz. A preview of new shows from seven of the UK's largest podcast publishers took place yesterday. A number of new shows were announced in the event had high profile guests included Hollywood actor Elle fanning. Is it that time of the month already Poltrak of published US top podcasts list for September from the New York Times, the daily is still number one. Here's what else you need to know today in the US top podcast publishers. NPR also remains the US number one for audience. I, heart radio is measuring forty four new shows and remains the global number one foot downloads an incomplete rancor it measures participating publishers only. In Australia. The ABC has announced that Paul's poets the annual conference for the podcast industry and the country will not be taking place this year. Instead, they've negotiated discount for podcast movement virtual mail to all past attendees. The ABC will be participating in panels during the event and we promised future of events. PODCASTING is an entirely different from radio that's according to Tony Maury from the UK broadcast. Bauer. Media He was speaking at a panel session yesterday from rain with broadcasters from across the world it was co moderated by me. Meanwhile, podcasting will kill radio claims cast UK Suzy Warhurst speaking at a UK seminar that was denied by FIL. Riley have veteran broadcast executive. He accused podcasting of being a too big for its boots. PODCAST HOST RSS DOT COM is Beata testing new analytics dashboard and luminary continues to announce new exclusive podcasts. British villains will take a look at the great train robbery of nine thousand nine, hundred, sixty, three. That was the seizure of seventy one million. US dollars worth of cash in today's money from a train heading from Glasgow to London we're promised thick London accents and a humorous and engaging evaluation of a crime that left a train driver with brain damage. It's being made by North Planet Audio based in Los Angeles and California executive produced by Orange County California based William Green and Los Angeles California based Western sound I'm guessing that all of the British podcast makers or busy. Any podcast news cadence thirteen has signed an exclusive deal with you must remember this a storytelling podcast exploring the secret forgotten histories of Hollywood's first century hosted by Karina Longworth and radio topiary from NPR Piero is bringing back passenger season two will be in spring twenty, twenty one. Have also announced a partnership it with religion of Sports Sports Media Company, and that's the latest from newsletter subscribe at Pod News Dot. Net.

Pod News Dot UK NPR US ABC New York Times executive Bauer Los Angeles Elle fanning Riley Karina Longworth Sports Sports Media Company London Tony Maury California Suzy Warhurst Australia robbery Hollywood
You Must NOT Remember This (ft. Karina Longworth)

Who? Weekly

55:20 min | 1 year ago

You Must NOT Remember This (ft. Karina Longworth)

"Welcome to WHO. Weekly the podcast wheel and everything you need to know about the celebrities. You don't Bobby Finger. I'm Lindsey Weber and we got a big episode today because we're interviewing Karina Longworth of you must remember this this. The Alex Rodriguez that. I'm sure all of you listen to anyway. 'cause when she called in a few weeks ago to talk about Ronald Reagan and whether or not he is We'll just his who do them status. 'cause he was sort of a WHO turned into them anyway. We reach out to her like want to be on the show for real and she said yes because she said she has a new season coming out it it came out here. It's already out Two episodes are as of recording. It's a new season about the Disney. The Lost Disney animated beside us out. If you thought Oh there's not much the song of the South I thought under the whole story like. Oh it's just an evolved. It's very racist and like people don't like it. That's not Disney plus there's so much more to it She's minimal season about it. Subscribe to it wherever you get. Get Your podcast Blah Blah Blah. You know the drill. We're GONNA play the interview now. Stay tuned after the interview for. What's read it up too because we can't stop doing that and we didn't do it on the WHO dat episode we're behind thank you CORINNA? Enjoy the interview. We'll see you on Friday with them. They're upset of who them call six one nine who them and then we can. Do you said WHO Amazon of WHO's there you were. They WanNa know we I can they welcome to the podcast. He'll learn everything you need to know about the celebrities. You don't. I'm Bobby Finger. I'm Lindsey Weber and we're joined today uh-huh by it's not for following up a WHO dat episode with an episode that doesn't really have a structure or a name. It's just Karina. Longworth is here with us. I was thinking we could call it. who was that? who was that? Oh that's it was that that will start. You must remember this Korean long low. Hi thanks thanks for having me. We're so excited to talk to you because when you called in to the podcast on our request obviously it was such a huge hit and people were so oh delighted and also I have to say and not even just like sucking up. You gave an answer beyond what we even really expected. We deserved thank you. I'm such a big fan of your show and so when you guys asked me to basically apply who formula to Ronald Reagan like I had thoughts like how how could you. I'm not you know this stuff is really interesting to me because it always has been like. I've always been into old movies and TM. And all of that. But I understand stand for a lot of people may need to be explained that like you know Joan Crawford and Bette Davis feuding is a lot like Taylor swift and Connie but I wanted to say the so we were talking about how there's liberty there's always a celebrity connection so you can sort of peg your story about you know. Betty Davis to the Taylor. Sweat feud or whatever and currently your season of you must remember. This is about song of the south. which has a new relevance which obviously you expected because because Disney plus released their you know eight thousand tweet thread with everything coming to Disney plus November twelfth? Whatever it is November sixteenth November twelve off? And the one thing that's missing from it. That's you know was kept in the vault through the way the key to south to episodes out as recording I just listened to the Hattie mcdaniel one. I knew nothing about her. Yeah no inste- instead they did two hundred and fifty other tweets and then and you know there's just a gap like there's I think there's literally nothing for Nineteen forty-six because ours the movie Disney release that year. It's really funny you almost you can almost. There's so many ways as of I mean obviously it's a sensitive subject for them not to Really Speak About this movie or even acknowledge its existence but but there's a way of interpreting the whole tweet storm as in just smoke and mirrors like. Maybe if we tweet enough like maybe between high school musical two musical to show as tweet. Three thousand people won't notice that Song of the South isn't there like I know that's not what happened but it's just I mean it's sort of funny in the context of every single thing that is on that thread. There's no song of the south. Yes I was really thrilled when I woke up in the morning and I saw that. That was in progress. Like because I of course I knew that my podcasts was Kinda come out and that it would you know be kind of a way of talking about it right before talking about it but but also I I do think I was just brilliant. Pr Move because it like nobody was talking about. Does He. At that exact moment and then they just kind of figured data to ensure that they would be both celebrated and trolled at once and so yeah. I think it's great. I think they did the exact right thing. And also you know so it was good for me. Yeah we I mean I I feel like we have a very easy time with what we do because everything is so topical and we really like have all of these tabloids at our disposal but when you yeah but when you go after something you really have to find sources that are you know might not even exist anymore or or that never existed at all we. We've gone to the library to look up old issues of US weekly. But that's literally the most ray surgery ever done in our in this podcast exist. It's it's no not really I started I started working on it in March and I don't remember I mean I think maybe plus it had been announced by them but I wasn't thinking about got it I I had been working with a like a couple of producers who were interested in trying to figure out a way to just set a television show in Black Doc Hollywood of the twentieth century and so we we had a bunch of meetings. And we're talking about a lot of different ideas and at one point. I just kind of like showed up at a meeting with like ten ideas and and one of them was song of the South and that you know turn out to be not something that they were interested in but I in just like trying to know enough so that I could talk about at it for five minutes in this meeting. I found out that the movie was written by a white communist who was then Blacklisted almost immediately. After and I was like wow. I did did a whole season on the blacklist and I never got this Guy Story. There's gotta be a lot of other stuff going on with song of the South if like there's a story about a white guy involved that I never heard of So yeah then I you know that's kind of how a lot of these seasons begin that I'll find out one thing that not only I didn't no but I never would have thought to like look up and then I try to find if there are other stories like that about a certain thing a certain person time period or whatever and then I just figure out a way to string it all together I was I was laughing at the part where you said there was a you. We talked about having mcdaniel recording some song. And you're like I couldn't find a version the song but I couldn't find her version the SAMBA. Here's someone else's version and I was like in my mind thinking like every version of every song released in the past. Ten years is at my disposal. Boesel in fifteen seconds or less like you know like the Selena Gomez remix with bb wreksa produced by DIPLO. That's the only lease in Amsterdam like I can find it in thirty second you know and also song of the South who writes on the south. Who Do we all agree on this? Okay well this is really interesting because I definitely thought song of the South was a WHO and then I started doing press about this season and a couple of the people who have wanted to talk to me. Journalists were big Disney people. And so I've never been a huge Disney just need person but at least one of these journalists was somebody who actually spends time on Disney message boards and she was she was like she made. It seem like song of the south with is the most famous movie ever made and I was like actually most people that I mentioned it to have never heard of it and she didn't believe me is that because like does. Do we get a sense of Disney people. This is also a phenomenon that I'm fascinated with like you know after living in La for one year and then coming across all like people who go there like for the day once a week or something. I do Disney. People like to embrace the dark as well as the light they are not pr people like they. I think Disney people also love like like the Dark Disney stuff too so song south. Oh yeah something that Disney person would be into. I think yeah I mean she. Was this person I spoke with was Zyypah. The Disney community is like release it. Did you watch it on. Did you watch a VHS. How did you watch it online? So it it's never been released on VHS in the US it's never been released in any home video format in the US. I saw it in Nineteen eighty-six in a movie theater when I was six years old and then There is basically there was a Japanese laser disc and that Japanese laser disc has been bootlegged. And so if you go to like comic conventions or Disney conventions sounds like you can buy bootleg. DVD's of it apparently you can also buy these bootleg DVD's everywhere in Georgia but the basically the bootleg DVD. The Japanese LASERDISC ended up on a hard drive. That a friend of mine had who and he gave that to my husband years ago and it was just like a hard drive of a bunch of different movies that were unavailable and so my husband has had that hard drive for a long time. But we've never had occasion to watch song of the south. But I knew he had it so I knew that I was going to be able to do the research for the season just in that term because I knew I was going to be able to watch it right which is like yeah but the funny thing about the Japanese LASERDISC is that it only has subtitles for the songs. Oh my well then I guess we I never got to my question. which was that? How how do you source a lot of the stuff on your show? Do you find yourself like deep in people's memoirs or like. This is actually a very selfish question because I would love to know how to research anything beyond five years ago. Yeah honestly so it kind of depends on the subject matter but usually usually what I do. Is I try to figure out the landscape of books. So that I've been reading about the topic and then I figure out which ones of those books are reputable. Yeah And I mean over time. I've come to know that there are certain people who are in the business of just churning out salacious biographies And so you try not to read those people's books. She tried to stick to the more reputable sources. I don't like to read any book or use any book as a source it doesn't have a bibliography that isn't telling me where their sources are right. so that's the kind of the starting point and then beyond that ago to the academy's Library where they have clippings files for every movie ever made and anybody who's ever worked in a Hollywood Hollywood movie and so you can read. Sometimes I'm microphone sometimes digitally and sometimes in paper files all the newspaper articles all of the magazine articles from Nineteen thirty two or whatever awesome and then they also have studio documents and correspondence and things like that. So that's that's really valuable and then I also collect magazines. So I I have every issue. You have confidential magazine for instance that was published by its original publisher For more recent stuff like I just started collecting movieline magazine from the the late eighties and nineties. which is pretty fabulous fabulous? So yeah I'm trying to build my own library of Seattle as well. I am so to to a certain extent. This still happens today. How competition among media publications especially gossip publications leads to like? Well you got to read you know the whole variety you gotta read the entire tapestry of gossip sub coverage to actually get the full extent up the gossip but I feel like it happened more you know in the mid century where you would just get wildly different accounts of things not just gossip but news depending on what source you were reading So because of that I feel like it's one of those things on like it's very this American life to me anywhere. It's like according to this newspaper. This happen but according to this newspaper this happen there were all. These conflicting reports was because it was such a big variety of publications especially celebrity like public focused publications. What what is your favorite one is it? Is it confidential magazine. Like what was your favorite voice. Well confidential is really fun to read for sure and it's also they they work publishing things that pry like previous to them getting started in the mid nineteen fifty fifty s magazines. Were not publishing this stuff because the studios were buying off the press so that I mean there was a brief period when the Hollywood reporter I started in the nineteen thirties. Where the guy? Hi who started the Hollywood reporter James Wilkerson he wanted to be an antagonist to the studios. He's like this is such a phony business. I'M GONNA tear it all down but then. He started opening nightclubs club. Like the Trocadero where the whole point of the nightclub was to get celebrities drunk and the waiters were basically also reporters and the waiters would just over here what the drunk people all set and then they publish it in the Hollywood reporter but then he realized that he was making so much money at the nightclubs and then if he pissed off the wrong people they would say stop coming to the nightclubs herbs and be stopped buying ads Hollywood reporter so he allowed himself to be bought off. Oh no no yeah exactly so. So they're basically there's like this twenty year period between when James Wilkerson is like incorporated by the studios and confidential starts up where everything everything that even like people like Luella. Parsons had had a harbour who are considered you know to be muckrakers. Everything is being vetted by the studios vetted by publicists and so it's not that it's all false but there's just a lot of stuff that isn't coming out you know stuff about affairs and abortions and things like that. Well we have a similar thing like that how American could media owns like every tabloid essentially. I mean that's something that we also know. There are huge holes in coverage because of maybe things going on I mean I'm I'm not sure like how where all of the where everything is reaching too but we get a sense now. That stuff is getting covered up or just not or just or literally purchased not reported essentially in that way. And that's why like something like crazy days and nights like is allowed to sort of keep going and people keep reading it because like one out of every twenty blinds a day ends up being correct and that's enough of a reason to to read it. This is going to be the one and also you get a sense of which ones ones might be correct because you can kind of you get a sense of the way that they're told you know and and the ones at ten corrector told US certain way actually. I wonder. Or if that's the case with like you know reading any kind of source it's like you get a sense of what's more likely to be true based on where it's coming from or the way that a publicist would talk talk versus a different type of source. I mean bobby. You're obsessed with like the way that sources talk like a source close to the to the celebrity said or whatever and it's like Oh that's their publicist. Are you know one hundred percent. It's never like a source close to the combination of particular language with like a source a source with knowledge of the situation or like a source close to the person combined with the way the sources talking. They're like certain red flags we're like. Oh this is literally just treat pain. Speaking of Taylor swept like we know exactly who this can. You always tell like in a car dashing. Story when a source close to them. I think if if it's if it is I mean I mean usually if it is on if it's an e. news exclusive. That's the biggest red flag because they'll say a source. Clearly Chris not even pretending but I usually just assume it's Chris maybe less so now but at least in like the Kardashian heyday you know five years ago it just always seemed like it was Chris. It's so crazy that e. news could be like reporting quote unquote news about the Kardashians. Do it all. But it's it's like I mean you know it's basically like if HBO was like now we have HBO News. News game of thrones literally. It's true I I need. And then they and also the thing is they scatter and it's not just Kardashians. They scatter all of the gossip about their new reality stars. Just among actual. We'll gossip you know like I just. I'm scrolling through news right now. One of the top stories. Evan Rachel Wood Calls Out Paris Hilton for Calling Millie. Bobby Brown hot but then if you scroll down then then you're going to see both Kerr dashing. Stories and stories from NBC Universal Family. You know all just in there right together Who is this is? This is sort of a a a quick little swerve but who is your who is your favorite contemporaries Lebanon not mid-century slept. Ed Who is your favorite contemporary celebrity to follow to actually keep up with. Because you've got other things to do or at least You know I have like maybe maybe this is even not current enough. Although I guess she's still around she's still doing stuff. But like I like the like Angelina like stealing brad away. The situation was extremely important for me because I was already obsessed with Angelina and I just kind of never stopped and Yeah I I just I. I still get really excited when there's like Paparazzi photos of her. You know taking Matic's out in my neighborhood. The photos of them selling dog treats at the park in the background around photo. That look like ghosts. I mean she just she bought Cecil Beaton Mills House. And it's like she just lives and it's like it's near where I live and it's like five city blocks behind these gates and so it's just like it really is like some crazy lake like emissary from the past is just like right there you know I mean she definitely she has the spirit of Lake and always at the Taylor or something like that. That's what I was thinking to headlines today because she he was spotted shopping and Spain the whole which is like a flow. A little linen dress. My Mom there's one tabloid I think it might be radar. Someone who's obsessed with her son's college experience and they must have some some source in because he's going to college like in a different country right and so they're obsessed with it and you're getting like his. His dorm room looks like this. His roommate looks like this. Here's what he ate the cafeteria and it's it's actually like insane to mean I can't imagine anyone carrying but I guess there's a lot of people really really are invested in these kids. I guess you know. Yeah well I mean when I was when I was in college I was in college. Not The place but at the same time as Chelsea Clinton I'm like there was stuff like that then I mean. Maybe she's more of a public public figure. I don't know. Did you see the Chelsea Clinton story this morning which one now like she she in some I I I have to get this right. Please pardon me you will both enjoy. This week was was it that she was mad about beyond saying Jay Z. Because that was another thing that came a separate it was so it was it was a profile of her. I'm not sure where it is. I'll find that out shortly but a line from the give you guys A. If you're still looking I can have you guys beyond say and Jay Z story. Yes lease so Two weeks ago I went out to dinner with my husband. And a couple that were friends with at the Chateau and we're just like sitting on the patio and they started setting up a table like right behind us and there was all this whispering about it and they put out like a champagne bucket and a reserved sign. But nobody's sat sat there for like an hour and then beyond Jay Z.. Sat down and I had my back to them so I wasn't able to witness much and like you don't WanNa stare at them. You know that the whole thing is that like they're being protected by like handlers. Were just like looking at you and they have a gun but I I will tell oh you that there was an order of fries shared at the table and as we were leaving They finish their champagne. And we're being delivered to like perfectly thickly icy cold Martinis wow credible so prized Martinez fries. MARTINIS I don't think I would have been able to sit there with my back to them. That would have been torture honestly. I wouldn't have been able to speak because my girlfriend was like sitting across from me and she was looking at them and so I was mouthing do things to her and she was just like nodding or shaking her. I wouldn't out. Could you even continue the conversation like I was in the same room as Meryl Streep this week and I couldn't even function. I stood there and stared at her like it was ridiculous. It was embarrassing for me honestly and my friend was like you should go over and say how it was one of the things that you should go over and say hi or or whatever because then you'll get get over it and I was like I absolutely cannot and I will not no no absolutely not I couldn't believe they were real people your life and you oh live in Los Angeles so this is like this ever. You never see beyond saying Jay Z.. Anywhere like no not in my life absolutely not. That's really funny. I mean they speaking of like this. The kind of like a a a list celebrity that that Angelina Jolie is and beyond saying Jay Zi are. It's like there's not as many of them left or were you know we're we're kind of running out. Is there like this cycle where you go. And where you kind of lose your listers Ed. Or whatever have had that happened in the past or dislike a new thing I mean it sort of happened in the sixties when all of the stars from the forties and fifties. We're getting old old. And then the sort of new crop of celebrities were who's to them Lousy Lake like when Jack Nicholson becomes famous in nineteen sixty seven with easy rider. It's like who is this guy right and and then you know a lot of the people who became famous than were considered by that previous generation to be like not good looking enough for movies like Jack You know. Dustin Hoffman was like oh he's short an ethnic and like the same thing with Al Pacino. Oh Wow I jack Nicholson actually made me. Think of Angelica Houston which made me think of nepotism and. Let's talk about nepotism all the time in in a in a recent episode. We talked about just because of just because the circumstances and the topics we talked about Zoey Deutch a lot. Who is daughter of Leah Thompson? And she's sort of like low great nepotism. But I think it's still counts and Zoey Deutch Maya my a hawk. All the children of people who were kind of at their peak in the nineties are now the age that you are when you enter Hollywood you know like their early twenties. They're they're there's a lot of them and yeah and and so was nepotism sort of and when we think about that today like Russillo sort of blinded by. We're we're like Oh my God it's like the Child of Maya Hawk and The child of ood Thurman Ethan Hawke is like Pretty and talented. Who knew like we love her? But there's also a little little resentment there. Was it easier for celebrities back in the day. Like what sort of time did ANJELICA HUSTON have coming up. When her father was one of the most famous directors of all time did people ridicule ridicul? Conservatism is time always works. Nepotism is as old as time but like is is the conversation around at the same time I feel like there's more resentment in twenty nineteen and there array of been in nineteen sixty nine whatever so Anjelica Huston like definitely had a rocky road and I would absolutely recommend reading her two memoirs Her her first one like kind of is kind of slow in this. Like you're really into the idea of childhood in Ireland But like the last May be hundred pages of it she becomes like a sexy teenage model. So that's good but the second book like really just hits the ground running because she likes starts this horrible affair with Terry Richardson's father and then she hooks up with Jack. Nicholson but that whole time. I mean she doesn't really start acting successfully until she's in her mid thirties and some of it is because of like her and the stuff going on in her personal life but a lot of it is just like she can't get anybody to take seriously But I mean I think earlier than that you know I mean Douglas Fairbanks. Thanks Junior married Joan Crawford at a time when you know he was starting his career and she was starting his career and they're like hot young couple. It would be like it's like you know. Oh if I duNno. My Hawk started dating Brooklyn Beckham. That might happen. That's yeah yeah but You Know Douglas Fairbanks junior just like they did not have the sustained stardom that Joan Crawford did and and you know. She kicked him to the curb. Pretty quick do you come across. Uc Stories Contemporary Temporary tabloid stories. And you have this weird sense where you can see how they're going to be perceived fifty years from now now not necessarily I mean there are certain things that are kind of templates. Let's at happened over and over again right but You Know I. I love being surprised. I always try to keep an open mind. That's good that's good. I mean that's smart. Yeah I it's just so funny to me because it's like it feels like there. There are patterns and yet. I'm always surprised by stuff for some reason. Oh can I say one. More thing about nepotism. I forgot got to say that her dad was a beneficiary. Slash Lake had to deal with nepotism as well because his dad was the actor Walter Huston who was a super famous actor. And then you you know when John Houston started his career as a screenwriter first and then as director there was a little elect of Lake. Really like this kid but he just proved himself really fast. Yeah Yeah I just yeah. I don't feel like we do that to our our celebrities kids though we don't even say like prove yourself. I mean we because we're sent more cynical by. I don't think I think people bullet mostly love it. They fawn over these kids. Like there's no like kick back like let's see what you got you know. It's very strange to me. Like we love it when they're our family by and large like DJ overall the net result is that it works like they may get a little pushback from the press. Unlike from people like us who. We're just like bitching about it in a in a group tax like all my heart is of course my hawkins once upon a time in Hollywood like you know that sort of thing but like she's just going to continue getting things she's going to continue being cast and everything that's just how it works. I guess Speaking of surprises putting your which I guess you do all the time putting yourself in the shoes of just like someone who is following celebrity gossip or following you know film news in the Mid Century. Can you think of someone who was a try hard who I mean not not counting Ronald Reagan which we've already discussed but like sort of try hard a who a very prolific who who you never thought was going to transcend that sort of status who then became phenomenally successful like is there. Someone is there are sort of equivalent to that that Ronald Reagan. But Not Reagan. Or I can't give I can't even think of a contemporary. Maybe we'll like Zindi Day right now. These these sars-like ars he like had these big ups for like a few years ago. I was like I don't know who that person is. Obviously he's not going anywhere and then here they are yeah. I don't know if I can think of somebody's specific civic offhand but I mean definitely like sometimes you'll look at somebody's IMDB profile and be like. Oh they actually like were around for twenty any five years but I only knew them from this one thing you know Mary Astor is somebody who's Kinda like that where she was just like working working working and then her career kind of ebbed and flowed. ooh You know like a like a Marcia gay harden or something and then she won an Oscar and that kind of transformed things and put her in the Pantheon but she also had this crazy like sex diary scandal. That like happened when she was at a real low point in her career and instead of killing off her career as everybody expected it to do. Because has there was the nineteen thirties. It made her more famous. People were like Mary Astor. Who Knew? Yeah like Kim Kardashian. It's like crazy that we even thought that Paris Hilton and any Kim Kardashians careers would be over or whatever. No one would give a shit about them after their sex days when like it's been proven again and again that people don't seem to care about that and it's not even like were we're prudes or anything of anything we're the opposite. So it's like it's every everything repeats itself even though people you know will say like Oh not this time not this time. We're smarter. Whatever sort of switching gears a little bit? Why do you choose the specific stories that you dive into? What about a specific topic usually calls you towards like making episode about it? Well you I mean over the past few years I've focused on during seasons And so because it's just a lot easier ear to Focus on like a theme that can contain a lot of stories rather than having to start from scratch to research each individual story so the the first thing I look four is when I have one idea is are there other ideas. Are there other things that can connect to this within a container And then usually it's like if I figure you're out that there's like five or six different stories. That could all go together. I basically decide you know. Am I passionate about this or not and usually the thing that kind of sustains my interest because it is a really long time as I said like I started working on this in March y'All episodes are written and recorded right now. But we're still editing them. Obviously I'm still talking about them so you do have to be willing to commit something for a long time You know usually the thing that would make me feel that passionate about it. As if there's something in this stuff steph from past that I can connect to the present day and so you know the song of the South as I said. I wasn't really that aware of Disney. Plus it was more that when I was starting to to research at Green Book had just one Oscar and there was this sort of this conversation about like white people making movies about black people and I. I'd you know. Song of the South is kind of the ultimate white people thinking they're doing something good and liberal and progressive by making a movie about black people and just like not being able to hear hear or understand criticism of it. That was one thing that just reminded me that was. Was it David O cells neck or Victor Fleming. I'm not sure who was in in the mix but I think you said David cells but how he thought he was doing something incredibly progressive by like making little changes to the novel for Gumbo. Yeah we yeah so funny to think of this guy thinking he's making some like huge progressive statement with gone with the wind of all people but that is the Green Book Story. That is Nick Milonga being like hell. Yeah like this is great. This is a good thing I was wondering. Are there any Celebrities or people stories. That you've researched searched come across that haven't fit into your show that who stories you still like are obsessed with and looking for ways to put into like a future show or maybe look a little deeper like. Is there any it person that we would find. Maybe waiting in the wings. Yeah yeah I mean like basically one of the first stars I ever knew about was Natalie. Wood She died when I was. It's like a year old and my mom was obsessed with her. My mom thought that I looked like young natalie wood when I was like five years old and so she was just talking about Natalie Wood all the time and of course I didn't didn't really understand the nuances of Natalie. Wood story when I was five years old but It's something that has continued to fascinate me but the thing is like there isn't really a great natalie. Wood biography Raffi. There's still a lot of questions about her manner of death. It feels like the story is an over and I had like at one point. I actually started started trying to do a season that would be about the three stars of Rebel without a cause. That who all died young so it wouldn't be her James Dean and Salma Neo And I started looking into it but like the books about Natalie. Wood aren't good. The books about James Deen Aren't good and so like maybe like down the road somewhere like I. I would write a book about that where I did all new research by. Its I had to put it on the back now. I would love you to because I feel like. We don't don't have like they did. Someone just did a podcast in US weekly. Just do a podcast awful. I stopped listening. They didn't do nothing hap. It wasn't that good and just like such such a bummer. Because that story is so like people would love to hear it now. Robert Wagner is still alive. The story is not over yet so it was nice. The thing is is that like I mean maybe stuff will come out when he dies. I think people still feel like. Don't cross Robert Wagner for some weird reason you guys know the restaurant restaurant in West. Hollywood Dan Tana's yes it's like classic old place I was there went to some friends at the bar. And somebody asked me a question about Natalie Wood and if I I thought Robert Wagner killed her and I was like I don't know and then a guy who was just sitting at the bar drinking whisky by himself turned around and like tap me on the shoulder and was like what like what you say. Rubber Wagner is a killer like I was like I don't know Sir and that he reaches into his Blazer and pulls out his cell phone on and scrolls and then he shows me a Selfie he took with Robert Wagner and he says I don't think so. Oh my God do anything there. Oh my God. Hubbert Wagner defenders crucially sipping whisky behind you at a restaurant. That's like that's like a true horror movie. Legroom House of wishes think accomplish something as a wrestler by true. Oh my God and that that creeps me out so much because like there's something that happened there too that the hopefully fully I mean it has to come out like it has to whether or not foul play like. We don't know what happened on that boat. Yeah but I was GonNa ask you so. She died. Drowning owning Jamesy died in the car. Accident had Salmonella Typhi Salmonella. He was he was killed in an alley in one thousand nine hundred seventies and when he was gay. I don't think he was killed. I don't think he was gay bashed but he he had sort of a secret life and then he was killed in an alley. Oh my God his killed in an alley hikes okay. But we're going to stop right here. Four SEC format break Lindsay. Where's your next trip? Where will you need away next? I Oh thanksgiving probably like going home for Boston. He acts on to be there for a while. Supplies needed pack lake more clothes than usual. got a pack. Your microphone. GotTa pass the microphone in the away. Fortunately the hard shell. That keeps the microphones safe. Yeah thank God we have. You're going to be in a bathing suit in November and Boston's gotTa hot dumb. Are you kidding me. You Bet. Thank God you can fit it in your way back to. y'All away with the pockets on the front. Yeah I know I'm at one. Listen away I one of the free thing. uh-huh they're designed to last for a lifetime of travel. You get one hundred day free trial which is like the best thing they have a limited lifetime warranty means. They'll fix or replace your bag if it ever. Let's damage which rules they got the compression path. I love that thing whenever you snap it. It's very satisfying. You can shove all your crap in there anyway. We love the away bag. You know we love the away back for for twenty dollars off a suitcase visit away travel dot com slash who weekly twenty and use Promo Code. Who Weekly Twenty during checkout? That's twenty dollars suitcase at away travel dot com slash. Who Weekly Twenty using Promo Amoco? Who Weekly Twenty at checkout holidays coming up people need to clean because they have people over but it's a lot of work just want people to think your apartment is key? I know but it's whenever you getting ready to entertain going to hire a clean after this birthday party. You have coming up not yours. Probably couldn't I can use handy because they have an easy to use apple slash website website. You can book a home cleaning and just sixty seconds. You can also get a cleaning plan. Weekly biweekly monthly. That's really good. If you hire cleaner it should be irregular. Thank you percents has them like yeah and have pricing. What you see is what you pay pay securely on the APP no need to worry about cash or checks and one hundred percent tips go directly to your pros you get your hmm cleaned anytime from seven? Am to eleven pm as weak subject to availability. The pros are vetted their background checked. And they have a handy happiness guarantee if you're not satisfied with the quality of the service look another pro to make it right at no extra charge and for hooligans handy has a special offer get your first three hour cleaning for only twenty nine dollars when he signed it for cleaning plan go to handy dot com and enter Promo code who. That's a three hour home cleaning for just twenty nine dollars. That's what the cleaning plan at Handy Dot com slash who promo code who terms and conditions apply. Visit Handy's website for more information handy. It's the most reliable name in house cleaning before we let you go back to a better evening than this impossible. We're GONNA play a game called. You must not remember this okay. Tom Title we've reached the end of the decade and every website every publication is pushing pushing out best of the decade content. So we thought we would do the same. But with you with a twist and we're seeing what you do and do not remember from gossip of the past ten years our aim so we the question for every year of the past aid. And maybe you'll remember things maybe you won't you but these are things that you probably shouldn't remember things that we should not be remembering and yet bobby I remember everything useless. You Start Bobby. So let's start with twenty ten. In August twenty. Ten Paris Tilton was charged with felony drug possession when cops found point eight grams of cocaine in her bag during a traffic stop. How did she explain away the cocaine while in court a she thought it was gum be she thought it was chapstick? See she thought it was Mints D. She thought it was advil. Wow she could think it was any of those through I'm GonNa. NSA SEE men not gum. It was I. I was thinking when I was thinking of the other options for this question. I was like well. That doesn't really have the consistency of cocaine. But then I was like neither does gump there. I don't really know what she thought we would believe but she tried. It didn't work. Did she has wrapped in foil. Who gave but to her was she like? Oh can I have some gum. And they gave her like. There's no reason that she would think it was It doesn't make any sense. This this story is what I'm also thinking. Currently the the whole that whole thing was a big mess. Twenty eleven twenty eleven in August. Twenty Eleven Kris Humphries and Kim Kardashian Marion lean hugely publicized ten million dollar ceremony. The tabloids repeatedly referred to as the wedding of the century. Well how many days did their marriage bridge last. God this is tough. I feel like it's either. Oh Oh you're going to give me multiple. Oh Yeah I would never do that. Yeah was it sixty seven seventy a two eighty one or eighty two. Bobby Eighty one eighty two so I feel like people knew it was within the three month. Reign okay okay months okay. Okay so I actually like was about to say that I thought it was either eighteen or eighty one. So I'm going to say eighty-one was seventy two although you do not not need to get that correct because these numbers were so close together did you just as just your own speculation. Do you think that whole thing was a publicity stunt. But it's it's a very obvious interleague. It seems like a publicity stunt but do you think there was ever anything real in that marriage. I didn't I wasn't really paying that close attention then like I didn't get into the Kardashians until I got into the Kardashian so yeah I don't know but it seems like it was just for the show. No now I think so. I think I just feel like you know. Sometimes the the Kardashian heads will argue about that and I just wanted to see. I was watching a youtube video. That was the woman interviewing people on the red carpet. Kim's twenty-seventh Birthday Party and they were interviewing Aubrey. O'Day her best friend at the time. Apparently he said I really hope. Oh Kim gets married this year wishes. I hope she gets married. Because she's such a mommy and she didn't seem very very very very the script. Birthday wish for Kim Kardashian was that she got married. I was like wow. This is incredible document. Okay this okay. Eight twenty twelve. This is ridiculous in the summer of twenty twelve just months before the release of the final twilight movie Kristen Stewart was caught quote unquote cheating on Robert Robert Pattinson with a director named Rupert Sanders. Witch non twilight movie. Did he direct Kristen Stewart. Was It on the road. The runaways ways. Welcome to the Riley's member that I don't or Snow White and the Huntsman Snow because every headline was so the huntsman directors and adding to the dramas sanders wife played kristen's mother in the snow. White movie that her husband directed and before where she pulled down her twitter account tweeted and Instagram of snow. White drinking from what looks like a liquor bottle and wrote not so pretty or so pure after all this Swiss a crazy tabloid story. When I was I was looking up? All the photos of this. And it's like this was on the cover every like I forgot how big this was. Meanwhile wild today if there were a headline saying Kristen Stewart was making out with someone Rupert Sanders. Everyone would laugh at all because I mean so. He turned her gay. Thank afraid but just she was having this highly like this. This huge the a love triangle with two men now is just wild thing to think about. She is like the Leonardo di Caprio of Lesbian. Now like how thin was she even part of this like. It's amazing. I also think I also I think that the Senate confirming. I think that this was a publicity stunt because the photos when you look at them. They're just they are extremely staged. So made nick. Maybe they were just is trying to drum up publicity for both of the movies but anyway twenty thirteen. Do you want me to do power through these. Sorry wait bobby long okay. An hathaway made headlines in the spring two thousand thirteen for changing her Oscar address. Last minute explaining that quote it came to my attention late Saturday nights there would be address more into the Oscars. Oscar de remarkably similar to the Valentino. I had intended to wear and so I decided it was best for all involved to change my plans. Though I love address I did wear it. Was a difficult lasted decision as I. So look forward to wearing Valentino in honor of the deep and meaningful decision relationship. I have enjoyed with the house and with Valentino himself. I deeply we regret any disappointment. This caught who. Where did she write that? It's like the most it's the most peak and hathaway statement like I end. All my statements ever need to write a statement. Yeah Okay so the question is it was later revealed who the other dress belong to. Who Was it was it Jennifer Lawrence? Amy Adams Amanda safe read which I always was pronouncing correctly or Jessica chastain. See Fred C.. Suki free cell. I mean this was probably the Les Miz also and so it would be like super caddy and weird if it was Amanda Siegfried But I'm GONNA say Jennifer Jennifer Lawrence. Apparently the rumor was that it was Jennifer. I but then people confirmed was Amanda and then after after all the drama trauma came out where it was like their feuding. Amanda just tweeted fact. I love you an but the thing is if she actually loved her she would call her Anne right right because you know she gets anxious any just love that Anne hathaway statement before serenity came out and and people didn't like it she released like a like I don't know a pre shape she was. She released a statement the day before it came out saying like people aren't going to like this because what it's art at very long inscription anyway. She's he's great at captions. Inmates One thousand fourteen Jay Z and salons knowles got into a fight inside an elevator at the standard hotel after us at attending the met gala. We've seen the video. We've heard the explanations sir. Can you remember what the metal theme was. That year was Charles James Beyond Fashion Alexander McQueen savage beauty punk chaos took a tour or China through the looking glass. Bobby I would never get this two thousand fourteen S. Yes I mean say Alexander it it was that was thousand eleven. It was Charles James Beyond fashion. It's just funny that I have no memory of this. I don't either not at all. I remember elevator. I think they've gotten better at trying to make the themes a little more viral so long as they're just trying to get to come back. That's the only thing that they can do this point. Okay two thousand fifteen. I know you'll know the answer. This in two Thousand Fifteen Tori spelling fell on a hot grill nyc conic restaurant chain spellings spellings rep had no comment. But according to a source Tori hadn't even started to eat when she slipped and fell she grabbed onto the side of the hot grill and burned her arm at the time. It didn't seem Thomas Beth. The doctors told her it was the next day. which chain restaurant was? She burnt at was it. I just wanted to hear your multiple choices. I don't even know how you would burn yourself at at a cheesecake factory or a Tgi. Friday's or Chili's or Benny Honner. Obviously it's funny. How you are correct? That is my bet. Is the by far the best thing that happened in two thousand fifteen fifteen which is amazing and it's getting easier in two thousand sixteen. Tom Had Allston wore an iconic tank. Top all being photographed at his. Then girlfriend Taylor Swift's fourth of July birthday party. What did the tank top say? Iheart New York Iheart Taylor. Iheart T. S. or Taylor swift is my girlfriend and I love her very much. I think it's see it's either Baresi to yes. That's right IHEART. Tia's that tank tiled arranged terrible Two thousand seventeen so the end of the eight-year marriage between FYRKE and Joshua Mel Sosa if you saw their divorce papers however it would save Fergie as dual Mel's ex-wife's ex-wife's legal name. What is Fergie's given name Stacy Ferguson? What's her middle name? What's her middle name? Do you know now. It didn't say that on kids kids incorporated it Stacey and Ferguson. But you get that one hundred percent and the last one because we don't know that we didn't have the big stories between nineteen yet. It feels like ages ago but it was only last year two thousand eighteen. That's the hook up and then break up of Pete. Davidson Arianna guerande during their short relationship. Davidson got the got three tattoos. Dedicated to Arianna. Uh which one of these did he not get a sketch of Ariana's pet pig piggy smalls h two G. Komo Aka Honest to God. Knock me out Arianna his favorite cartoon Winnie the Pooh or dangerous woman. Inspired Bunny ears I'm GonNa say Winnie the Pooh Pooh and that was a trick question. Because he already had a winnie the Pooh ed just to collect some of the worst tattoos I've ever seen in my full life if you want to check those out sometime eventually. It's actually insane. How many bad tattoos this person has? Can I suggest that you guys in the future do a segment or a game about celebrity liberty. Tattoos called who tat well inquiry gestion taken weekly. WHO TAT TAT? Don't cleanup games anymore. But Yeah and you're you're welcome to use. You must not remember this in case you ever come across garbage that you don't want your listeners to remember that's all all yours remember any of that Is there anything else that you want to plug. I know you're doing a spin off series that people are contributing to and I. I was hoping you would WanNa talk about that sure. Yeah we're GONNA start that's going to start running and at the end of January. It's called make me over and it stories about like Hollywood's intersection with the beauty industry and so it spans from the silent era with the first Hollywood weight loss surgery all the way to the nine hundred ninety indies and like there's a an incredible episode about like black beauty in Hollywood so Yeah so I'm really super excited about that. We have eight in like individual writers working on their stories right now and so. It's going to be sort of this American lifestyle where I introduced them and then they run with it and then I'm working on Another season of the podcast. That hopefully will be done by next summer which I don't really want to give details about too much but it's basically like it's it's about a female filmmaker in the seventies and eighties cool? Well thanks for chatting with us on this episode. This is a lot of fun we always. We always learn something from Krino the things that we actually want to remember not being meet hope to forget I forget I forget our episodes as soon as record them I never forget yours. It's so true well thank you. I'm so glad I got to play a game joint. It never never think about that game again. You never have to. Although you really should look at the Anne hathaway statement. You just read it once more because it's like it's a work of art all right it. Really thanks for talking to us. Thank you bye it was. She wary where was she seen. She posted why Onondaga Graham. She's a who you clean up. uh-huh what's Rita Ora up to. Who is this woman Lindsay Lindsay? What's up to She got sick well before she got. She got sick two weeks ago so the week of that she got sick. She cancelled her then. She know that we weren't going to do what's right up to and she got sick. Oh God what. If she didn't know what just operating on the same level what if yes you know. What if she heard that we didn't do it and then she got sick like week like we were responsible for that? What if we're accidentally control what we're like like Voodoo doll in her? But we don't even know it. I'm thinking what if what would you make Rita Ora do no. I already know what I mean. Like not mean stuff like not like being John Malkovich. Can't I would never do that to. What would you do to her like to make her happy? I only want her to be assessed her life around her. Like would you flop. Would you like proper onto an Oscar like a voodoo Oscar stage. Would you offer onto like Voodoo like coachella stage. Like what would you leave. We've we kind of like food. Viewed her into like a remake of all twist co-starring reduce laws son. Already did it. I can't do any more than that. I've already done that. Have you seen the photos from this thing. It's amazing yeah we've already done the most okay now. Most and yet is unstick. She got sick. She was supposed to perform at a quote a free Amazon event in Berlin. Germany which which just that's incredible. She probably free money off of that. A Freon event in Berlin Germany. Yeah sure you can afford a hundred season of Mrs Mozelle. They can afford to renew modern love which people. Hey I don't know I'm not not gonNa Watch that show. They can afford read aura at a free concert in Berlin Germany anyway. She released a statement not on Amazon. Like only depressant it's I'm I am so sad to have to announce that I've woken up today poorly and have been ordered by doctors ordered ordered by Dr Dollars. US actress now us to miss the Amazon event today. I've been looking forward to seeing you all so much decision. That has taken sorry. It is a decision that has been taken out of my hands and I am so sorry for not being there. Nothing makes me happier than performing and seeing thing. My incredible fans and not being able to do that is devastating. I believe it. It's pretty funny. Because that's exactly the note that I would write to you if I was sick. Exactly word for word get sick and has to miss an episode. I'm GonNa read that. Have we ever done that though. Have we ever. I was thinking about her. You've never done that have we. We've never done like we've never gotten sick and been like. Oh I can't record I'm sick. Oh my voice is disgusting. Please forgive me. I sound like trash now if I got food poisoning or something just like truly terrible like I couldn't even sit up. Then I would. Then I would write you that note. And I'm so sad to have to announce today poorly Orleans had been ordered by doctors to miss the Amazon event today teammates. Who Weekly reported today a free? Who weekly okay? So she the free weekly every team. That's what we should call every episode. Welcome to yet another free. Who Weekly event hosted by cadence thirteen? Okay so I really loved us and the reason I found out she was sick because I didn't look up. I didn't check my reader or Google alerts last week. 'cause I was like Oh we don't need this because we're not doing episode so reading this week's Google alerts. I and I got this daily till death do us. Part read aura slips into a cutout bodysuit skeleton print boots as she transforms into a very racy Zombie. I'll be bright following. Okay so I click. That and the lead is Rita Ora recovered from a recent illness to celebrate Halloween sexy style and I was like what she was sick. I didn't know she was sick but then she got better and then she dressed up. Cut Up Body students. Carlton print boots that she's transformed into a very raises. Lebron flying as much as Rita Ora. Does you would be out be sick all the time. She was barely have value meal. Like she's not flying with like you and me and like debris on the back of the flight she is. She's she's she's in the private jet. I understand that but just what flight what what air travel does to you. I fly once and even if I'm comfortable I'm fucked for the week. You kidding all all of these rich people that fly all the time. They're like knocking back sleeping pills their expert. Can I stay at ten o'clock. I can't function and say listen to me. I can't even even begin to understand what it's like to fly as a famous person because it's a whole different category of while sure that I stayed up late watching the finale last night and I am now ruined for the day or mom pulls off Glam gold dress at fifty five as heads out to support daughter as has pretty daughter. She does adore with a fringe of the life of a lightbulb. Swept elegantly decide. Vera said on my way to support my daughter at read or at the Cartier event in my aunt. Stella McCartney Dress Hashtag visuals with Vera zero first of all. You know it's wild that she's only fifty five. She always amazing. And I think this is the Scott launch. So she's probably wearing a Scott which is very very nice and she looks incredible. She's wearing so great genes as we know. Oh yeah

Hollywood Disney Iheart Taylor US natalie wood Ronald Reagan Kim Kardashian bobby Jay Z Robert Wagner Disney Angelica Houston Hattie mcdaniel Joan Crawford Jack Nicholson Taylor swift Zoey Deutch Karina Longworth Mid Century Oscar
July 15th - National Gummi Worm Day with Joni Deutsch

Podcast Gumbo

05:18 min | 6 months ago

July 15th - National Gummi Worm Day with Joni Deutsch

"Hey, this is bowl condo. This is the podcast Gumbo podcast and I've got a rhetorical question for you. Are you like me and find those things we call national days like cheese ball day or worse moldy cheese day amusing. Yeah me too. So each week one of my podcast friends challenged me to find an episode related to one of those days and I'll be releasing it on the actual day occurs. So let's get to it. What is today's National Day? Haibo. It's Joni Deutsche here with my extra special guest. Can you hear that? It's a bag of gummy worms in honor of July fifteenth being national, gummy worms. I know it's already on your calendar Oh fun fact gummy worms originated in the country of Germany. Yeah. Well, since I'm a huge fan of gummy worms, and since my last name Deutsche literally means German in German this furlough line wants to know more about this candy treat. Do. You have any podcast episodes, mind Dunga. I'M NOT GONNA lie Joni I did not have national gummy warm day in my calendar. Possibly, even worse. The sugary sticky animal treat I prefers Swedish fish. Hopefully. Our friendship can survive this. At the risk of disappointing you all with facts about this day I couldn't pass up the opportunity to share this first recommendation with you before I do do you know what Asmar is if not its autonomous sensory Meridian response and it's a tingling sensation on the skin most commonly triggered by specific Tori or visual? Stimuli. When I was searching for an episode to recommend I stumbled across the Nina as Mr. Podcast, I only listen to this one episode, but it seven minutes of Nina I assume eating gummy worms and drinking water. That's it. Extra, points you can get through the entire episode. One reason for recommending this episode is approved that there is a podcast for everything. Today's gas is Joni Deutsche host of the amplifier podcast in Charlotte North Carolina. Lead this is the third straight episode that has ties to music. Amplifier is a music podcast from W. F.. A. E. Were Joni shines light on the artists who call Charlotte home. I. Recommended an episode about a band that Plays Math Rock in my newsletter. But since I've done that already, the episode I'm going to recommend is about groove eight a long running jazz funk collective that is connected to some huge names in the music Biz including Prince in Quincy Jones. For a third recommendation Joni highly recommends Karina Longworth you must remember this a podcast about the secret and forgotten tales of Hollywood's first century. Joni says and I quote. Grab Your Favourite Gummy Candy Worms bears or rings and enjoy the slice of big history as we wait to return to movie theaters. Take a listen to the MGM stories about the literal and cinematic construction of Hollywood unquote. For today's extra hot sauce, I've little story to tell you I promise. It won't be as funny as it is Joanie and may but we met briefly on the first day of podcasts movement two thousand nineteen. Two days. Later, we're chatting at the radio TOPI party and I saw the host of ear hustle and I wanted to get a picture taken with them and I asked her to join me. She said she would take the picture. So I gave her my phone. All went well, and I have a nice picture the next morning as I'm skimming through my phone. I. See a photo that I didn't take. As it turns out Joni, took a Selfie of herself on my phone. I. Threatened to show to everyone and oddly she couldn't be happier. I have a link to the photo in the show notes, and if you know Joni, it perfectly captures why she's so much fun to hang around with and why astor to be a guest. My next episode drops on July Twenty Fourth, and we'll be talking about one of the most famous aviators in history. As always take a look at the show notes for links to all the podcast mentioned in this episode as well as other life altering information. To make it easy for you, there's also a link to a podcast. That will contain all the episodes ever mentioned in the show. See you next week some time for another round of recommendations. Are you still listening? Do you still want more podcasts goodness if so get on over the PODCAST GUMBO DOT COM and subscribe to my newsletter today

Joni Mr. Podcast Joni Deutsche Joni Deutsche Joanie Deutsche Nina Quincy Jones MGM Germany Asmar Charlotte A. E. Hollywood Charlotte North Carolina W. F Tori Karina Longworth astor seven minutes
Sephora Gondola Fantasy with Karina Longworth (You Must Remember This)

Glowing Up

1:10:17 hr | 4 months ago

Sephora Gondola Fantasy with Karina Longworth (You Must Remember This)

"Oh ESTER. Hi Miss Mister Caroline. God please Mr Carolinas, my mother called me. Coming young boy. I am. I am so excited today I'm like I. Ever shaky voice. I know I mean we rarely have a return gas, but like sometimes it's just you gotta do it sometimes because it's such A. They gotta be they've gotta be in that rotation. Sometimes, a guest is so legendary such an icon, such, a unexpected begin and source of wisdom offing skincare and beauty. You GotTa get him back I just gotTa say who it is. It's the one and only Karina Longworth. My God you guys. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so glad you guys are back. I love your like recharge theme song. Driving on the freeway yesterday and it came on and I was just like rocking out on the freeway which is exactly what you want. So yes yes, and I mean if you're listening right now you know who Corinne is but I need a hyper up for a second. Is the one of a kind autour writer podcast host woman toward a force behind. What of my favorite podcasts? You must remember this. Which is Just I don't even know how to describe it. It's a look back into Hollywood's forgotten history. No, I don't want nothing else like it though that's the thing about her podcasts. Sorry we know now we're talking about you like you're not here. There's nothing like as podcast it's. Like a historical true fantasy story I. Mean it's not fantasy, but you just I. There's nothing better for me than like drying bath lighting a candle. Pretend pretending old Hollywood star. Thing to you must remember this and I just WanNa shout out Carina is incredible book. Yes. Seduction Is lies in stardom in Howard Hollywood which I don't think that had come out yet the last time we talked to you. So congratulations well, thank you I can't remember because I was really sick when we recorded last time I remember Like. Not I was not in my sort of. Idealized form than the last podcast. So that's another reason to do it again. We're here if I recall, you're in what can only be described as a few state rightfully through like this, get this bag of like free care that you got it Barney's I'll letter something that was. Really close to death and you showed up showed up for the quilmes though not even like a slight fever. Kept you. Product Junkie which I gotTa say I love then Ooh and before we forget we've got a shout that Krino you must remember this is an amazing podcast like jump in anywhere. There's like so many amazing episodes. Truly every episode is better than the last but you. CREENA YOU DID A. Like a I don't want to say a spinoff or like a special special edition series of episodes that were dare I say beauty themed. Being I feel like our audience if they don't already know about it, they got to know about it. It's called make me over and it's basically this side journey of you must remember this into some really interesting amazing old Hollywood stories. That are like loosely related to the beauty world or like health or weight loss in their all things that I heard of such a fine when I discovered it, I was I was angry at the universe that I didn't know about it sooner like in that rarely happens to me but the Esther Williams episode how she is the reason for waterproof makeup line I, need to know these things. Okay. These these episodes are like their requirement this point. So thank you for making those for all of us and if people listen they have to. Let's leave Curry Poor Carina alone. Fanning out here we're asking not here. She's not here for this bullshit. She want we got. We gotta get into it. There's so much so much to talk about. Creena, how are you holding up its Corentin it's a heat wave in Los Angeles like. Less where you're at like just breakdown for how are you? Yeah. What's Well. I. You know I. Know that like some things are starting to open up and people are like getting outdoor pedicures or whatever. But I don't feel comfortable having anybody touch me right now and so I haven't had any kind of beauty service since like February. And then in the middle of of you know about a month ago I turned forty and so yeah, it's been an interesting journey of trying to figure out almost completely new philosophy of of and skin care and aging You know I think like in the past I had been somebody who was like Oh yeah. I. Don't know about getting fillers I don't know about getting injections. Long Term Studies on the safety of this stuff, and now I'm just Lake I've decided to not do anything until there's a vaccine. But then when there's a vaccine I, just kind of WANNA do everything. Oh I'm just like sitting here in my house watching my self age. and. And you know I just feel like I. You know I really have this feeling just as a historian that we're going to have the roaring twenties again and people are just GonNa go wild and and there's going to be really decadent consumerism and Blah Blah Blah, and I'm really excited to kind of test the limits of what I'm capable of in those realms. So yeah, and just like an orgy of consumerism. And I'm really excited about it. You know I as much as I. Wanted to fund the police and and brings sort of racial and social equality to all human beings I. Also, just you know really want to fill my face with garbage and and. Like kind of enjoy. Probably brief but enjoy like a flush of glamour when this is all over. I feel like you just gave me something to look forward to lake. I want to join in on that party like I. WanNa. I. WanNa. Dance in the streets with like the world's best fake eyelashes on and just feel. So yeah. That sounds so much fun. I'm wondering I want a cigarette filter after this I want to wear long gowns I want wear sparkley turbans I mean I this. Exclusive but. I pretty much decided I'm just going to get a nose job like I. don't even care anymore I'm at home like when this is done like fuck it. I'm I'm sick of the shit. I'm Mike, but here's the twist I'm performing the nose job. Look. Look all you need is like a A. A can't Ollie. Pop and boxing matches and you can make it happen crane ice ice I'm so down with that if you need a filler recommendation. My would ask her last week. Have a very bad recommendation of woman who an Armenian woman who came to my house with a rolling backpack. My mom found the super weird like network of cheap Persian. Lady friends. And she yeah, she gave me fillers in my house and I paid her in cash. So do not ask me for a recommendation because I don't want to give you her and she is. Amazing A. How are you? I'm curious. How are you feeling about turning forty? Are you feeling great and energized? Are you feeling down at all like it does seem like that's a pretty big monumental moment for in your having it in this pandemic like how is that? Yeah, you know I had had a plan to have a big party and you know I was feeling really good about it because I I feel like I'm the kind of person who was made to be forty, fifty, sixty seventy wasn't really made to be a young person but it's definitely harder at you know when you can't really share things with people and you can't I mean as it is. It's hard for me as somebody who lives in Los Angeles and is so engaged with the film industry because the film industry is just like completely shop stopped showing aging looks like so I'm like the only forty year old who looks forty in anywhere near where I live. But I was okay with that and I was you know I, think I was kind of excited to own that and now I'm just you know I. You know I feel fine about it but I'm just so bored. I. Know. Well, that's how I feel like I. I. For some reason like clothing matters so much more to me in quarantine that it ever did before like clothing I'm wearing like colored hair shrimps in my hair like I just it's like I need that excitement that like a rush need jolt of like Oh look good in the mirror like I know what you mean because before I didn't care about clothes and now I'm like obsessed with them it's weird. Now you're now you're a clothing manufacturer. That's true. That is true. I did jump in the industry right at the defense starting a clothing line for some reason. I because I I can't just like things I have to like completely make them my business. Sorry. Carolina. We're going to say. I was just going to say. I'm going to zoom writer's room and I have to admit like you would think that I'd be looking at my coworkers are. Making eye contact with people but I'm making eye contact with a three inch by one inch square of my own face looking back at me, and I'm like in this feedback loop with myself and I'm dislike. Nodding at. Myself. Think that like fifty percent of their reason why zoom is so stressful is because you're constantly looking at yourself in pretending that you're not looking at yourself and you're like trying to look at yourself and make sure you look okay in a way where nobody will really know that you're only looking at yourself. I wonder I'm always wondering if people can tell. That I'm just because they're. Less fully. Oh God. It's so dark and and okay do you have like a zoom makeup approach I'm always so curious to hear what people's zoom makeup routine Latinas. I so I've been doing what I call like no makeup make for Zoom, which is of course a lot but I mean, it's basically a use the This is actually from my last four hour trip before. So foreclosed I got the Ilia beauty tint stuff. which is for me it's the closest match to my actual skin care of any foundation or skin tone of any foundation I've ever seen and it is sort of just kind of translucent and so it it provides full coverage, but it doesn't look like it's full coverage and so that's been really valuable but you do have to put powder on top of it. If you're going to be on zoom because otherwise your face just looks wet. And so there's like a powder situation on top of that, and then I have to fill in my eyebrows and I have to use Mascara which is something I wanted to talk to you guys about because I'm just having a really hard time finding a Mascara that lasts all day and is like not underneath my eyes by four o'clock zoom. I know what you mean like I. I wonder if that's just a thing of of it being so hot al because I'm having that same issue. I've noticed that my glossiest lash. Lick will. Will last me have sometimes it'll be a little flakes below like at the end of the. Afternoon. But I don't have the perfect answer for that like I kind of need that to Carolina. What about you? I have thoughts, ladies Okay. Good. Okay. First Question Corinna are you using a waterproof? Mascara or are you avoiding those like where do you stand on Waterproof Mascara? I'm fine with them and I mean I I used mailing great lash for a really long time but it just kind of stopped working for me like it seems like the older I get like maybe maybe it's just that I'm using more powerful ice creams or something, but it just seems like I can't keep Mascara on my eyelashes. It's just always bleeding underneath the best one that I've been using recently is from milk it's I forget which one it is, but it's in the sort of Turquoise tube water that Kush Yeah even that doesn't last all day for me Okay. My recommendation for you is going to be the there's this cult classic Mascara from the drugstore it's called essence lash princess. I got false false lash effect Mascara and they have a waterproof variety. This is like truly a cult favorite people swear by it for short lashes. For like. Let's say problem lashes. Let's just leave it at that me ball. It's like it's looks. Looks like Chintzy almost it has like such poor graphic design. They sell it at CBS but this Mascara is great. It's five dollars people absolutely love it. And then I wanNA. Give shout to the mask air that's blowing up on Tiktok and it's one of my favorite Mariah's. Yes, tick a tick tock makeup find, and it's the drugstore duke for Gosh Glossy Lash like in my opinion, it's L'OREAL telescopic nick comes in this like long silver it looks it looks like. It looks like the kind of Dildo they'd prescribed to an old Hollywood actress in a sanitarium for like having a rod erotic mania or something like that. It's a long silver to. And I tried to tie it into credence interests and. I tried yeah. I tried like you can't say didn't try and it has and has a very. Like you know how the glossy lash like brush has, it's not like a typical Mascara, brush. It's like very small in plastic and it really separates your lashes. It has that kind of has that kind of brush. So yeah, those are my two rex. I really do swear by this essence waterproof lash princess I think you should check it out Creena and it's only six dollars so. You know I have to lose what do you have to lose except you do have to maybe set foot in a CBS and put your life on the line but I'm sure you could find it online I mean we'll have. Do. I want to ask because you referenced your last trip to Sephora. Before this all went down and I feel like we all kind of remember our last time. It's an aura and I i. Bet you relate to this I want to ask I find myself. The only thing I'm craving is walking into a Sephora store like I missed that so much and I'm curious if you relate. While it just limits what I can buy so much because I just I've had the experience too many times of buying something online. Just the shade is so wrong but I don't know if that's ever going to come back of going to Sephora and just like taking the testers and touching everything, it's going to be a long time. You're giving me flashbacks in like. I'm having horrible. It's too raw because Costco and trader Joe's which were my favorite like that sample culture right there if the cost. I I walked into a trader Joe's I would just go straight to the sample counter those days are. Those days are over her. Oh my God like if you take a sample from the trader Joe's sample counter, it doesn't count on whatever diet you're on. You. It's perfect. It's like. It's like pork for is not something I would ever normally. When a hot quasi hot thirty something like scruff trader Joe's employees handing it to me I'm like I. Love Pork Goat Cheese Kasha please like. Sir. I know last night me and Dave were like it's so hot. Let's get a slurpee and then we're like, what does that even like in Cova? We just kind of chickened out because like in my day when I get a slurpee I'm like. I'm sipping half a cup down before you can get to the owner like my God I would this be samples in my dirty hands and liquor? I like almost straight up. I would just. Let some slurpee in my palm and through A. Or are they going to one of the frozen yogurt places where they changed the flavors all the time? Twenty five flavors before you actually make a cup. Would I would reuse my Sample Cup yogurt land and those are. Do it was like you can get another one but I would. Put it in the same cup over and over until like that waxy paper was like disintegrating of a month. So it's like. It's like it's climate-friendly to only use one cup. I'm an activist first and foremost. Thank you so much for your service. Let's go we all this talk about our last or should we talk about our dream trip to Sephora and like what? What Gondolo we'd go to I if we went to a Sephora right now. Yes I I WANNA bring up. Okay sorrow. No I wanted to that this is related current. Do you know about the cosmetics line bessemer cosmetics? Yeah. Somebody gave me a gift set for Christmas. Ones, Oh what did I knew it i. knew someone had to already be on this with you. It's so cool. If people don't know best to make medics, they make lipsticks they recreate a lipstick that was a real lipstick from a year. So they have like a nineteen forty-five lipstick that was based on real lipstick from that year and I'm just curious like what are your thoughts? What are your feelings on it? So the things that they sent me it was it was one of those objects and might have been forty five. It was like a real sort of solid read. It was very dark and very matt and I didn't love it. I didn't love this shade or the formulation There was also like a lavender colored setting powder, which was good. But I like I had a setting powder that already liked and then the third thing was this is cool but it's just not that practical. It's like the old school cake Mascara where you have to wet it and then you use the separate one. Is that does that work? It does I actually when I was in plays. When I was like a preteen, we use Mascara like that. Then I'm not really sure why But so I had that experience with it, but we also used cake eyeliner which. You know yeah it's actually kind of like cake eyeliner because you can get like the exact right size brush union. So it's but you know I mean it's it's whatever it's all of this is way too time consuming for an actual person in the world. That's I started to say. Sorry. Go ahead. No I just wanted to share this with you guys. I'm currently freaking out on the best make cosmetics instagram. Do you guys know that they're big collector right now is the I love Lucy Collection. Oh to. At. The club, the Bob. Loop Pallet, I am freaking. Okay no let's go back to the lavender powder to. Lavon. Sorry. But lavender setting powder. Why is that? Like? Why do I feel like I need that in my hands right now that sounds amazing. Yeah. It's not doesn't like smell like lavender I don't think it's made out of the herb lavender lavender colored. What did that do for? You like did you did show up? No. It just kind of Well, you know I mean, you know how you can get like a green powder and neutralizes read lavender is supposed to neutralize some other color but I forget what maybe like like under is maybe it's supposed to be for like Brown nece on your under is but I think that the recommendation on this was to use it all over your face you know just like to set your makeup. and. It's fine. I mean it works but I I think I talked about this last time I was on the show. This is one of those things that I buy over and over again, which is like the John, she prison powder where it's different shades and then you blend it to rush that's I mean My all time setting this. Yeah. That stuff is like the height of luxury. It's so finely milled and it smells so old lady she and there's even like the tiniest teeny sparkles in it I love that. Yeah. She Mon- shape powder Oh you were the person who told me about the all over powder I thought it was a blush. You changed my life now she. Cream, the you know all the best stuff you had time and stuff. I hear about on your podcast so you know it just. Bull of. Before up came into my life. I. Can't stop thinking about the Gondolas at Sephora. I'm like still on. Okay. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it. Can I just say which Gondolas I miss the most guys leave it up to play this game I just want to do it for myself. I really missed the Charlotte Tilbury Gondola. That was fun. It's so much going on. There's all these little pictures of hot women like. Just like yes. I want that in that. I just really missed that Gondola quite a bit and you know what I'll say it. I have a lot of benefit product in years but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy always taking a peek at what benefits up to you really mean, yeah I used to be a real benefit girl when I was like twenty. or read shy I agree although I did like. Salon on third street to get my eyebrows done. Because it was just like the easiest place to make an appointment at an so I kept going there and. Recently, until the last time I went when they're a dying my eyebrows, they dropped I on my clothes. You guys still there. speechless. That revelation. I if you have it, if you haven't got your eyebrows slightly fucked up at a benefit counter, you haven't learned that's what I say. You're not a junkie not. If I ever get. fucking benefit in Evanston Illinois Esther you know what I mean. Look. Got Some Weird I. got some weird stuff. Done they're. Always walk out with like I just there are so many weird benefit products that I always just like laugh thinking about like, do you have that like? Kim Kardashian has body make up now. Yeah. Benefit had like a body makeup like Silky came this huge ten with this big foam. Pad. I bought that for myself as a treat for my twenty four, th birthday. Every. Single Dr. feelgood do. That that was either. Rhymer it was like the. Primary. Right. Put it on top of your makeup to make it stay. Am I like making that up I must be making that up. You could put it on top but I would put it underneath. It would basically fill in your pores, and then you put like I use the the benefits of cream stick foundation on top of it. was a real like pancake makeup. Look at your skin would be perfect Oh God get that buoying concealed or whatever. But I. We'll. Have to they'll give credit though is that high beam was my first ever highlighter oh. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh Yeah I mean not the greatest highlighter either I also like. That to me like that is my first. That is the first product I. Remember that kick started my love affair with makeup. Just hit I love the smell. I can smell it right now. Right. fucking moment. I definitely still have a box of dandelions. Still use it I mean I haven't used it in since March, but I definitely still use it sometimes. Oh my God dandelions is a beautiful color I mean. I think the benefit brushes like in that little perfect square box it just are nestle. Wrong With at a really good I, know my first my first ever TV Gig was a guest like are even co Star on new girl and I remember they used benefit blush on me and it was just like this monumental exciting moment for me like this is what a TV makeup artist us and I went out and bought it and it was just like the high the high that I still chase to this too. Hey. Guys remember the body Shimmer called kitten that came in a circular like French little container had a big poofy powder puff. Guys I'm. Fully. I literally writhing in agony just like. All of these products. Her Chair of action absolutely helping my chair without. A. Doubt. Oh I miss makeup but we have makeup. So I don't know. I miss it. Just because of what I would say about what I missed from before is just finding stuff that I didn't know existed and there's a sort of thrill to that that I just don't think I get from online shopping. No I know I agree there's like a a bigger high to like. It's you get more of that hunter gatherer instinct for when you find it and hold it in. Or like when I'm. In. The line to check out and I'm Mike. Inexplicably grabbing Josie Morand many is like I'm just like, yeah like I should definitely grab this many who put a beauty palette like Why not throw the bag. Oh and I see lasting and then I see five thousand points up on the screen and the women. Don't. Tell me you WANNA use some of these points and I just look around the eyes and with so much self-satisfaction ago. No, I'm saving them. and. She's like. Are you sure you don't want this like tiny sample of like a dior foundation that you will never use a mike no Bitch I don't. Okay thanks for thanks for letting me. Go on that journey guys I'm I'm coming back. I'm coming to you. Thank you. Gloominess I'm so psyched about the sponsor today I can't even believe or finally working with them. It's skill share. Oh my God. Okay. So skill share is literally built for a person in quarantine skill. Sure is an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people explore new skills, deepen existing passions and get lost in creativity. 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Dare I say I mean Well, I'm actually really curious to hear from Corinna any memorable products in your life right now I'm curious to your there's a learned about on our show that you're loving or just in general like what do you? What do you have? What are you loving and skin care? What do you feel in? I actually the most recent thing that I bought was the tower twenty three is that what it's called I. got this. Talking about twenty eight she went on your show. She was talking about the spray that she said cured her ex. I've been having really bad x amount on my hands. Which I usually get what I'm super stressed or when the weather changes and so right now during this heat wave, it's just been kinda terrible. I actually had to stop wearing my wedding ring because it was like all around that area. and. So I've been trying out the spray and it seems like it's getting better over the past couple of days. Awesome we love her products are so good. Okay. What else do I WANNA know? What's Sunscreen do us? Okay. So I For Body. I there's you know the French brand. Knox. Is that how you said I love nooks. French brands. Holding, on to me to to. Rita's thing at sturt get your own. So they do this one where it's like a spray oil and it's it union in thirty SPF. Fifty. SPF to can't get it here and so what I would do is every time I'd go to an airport duty free I'd buy like five bottles of it and so I still have one bottle left, but it's like I know, I'm GONNA run out before I can get a duty free and so I've been trying this the super goop oil which has also good but it's like it doesn't spread as well. I was going to ask if you've tried that. I am obsessed with nuts cleanup this. This sense of nooks are the most expensive sense There is nothing like the smell of nooks. Last time I went to France I bought a product by at like I. Wish I bought ten bottles of it. It's an after Sun Lotion. It's called the refreshing after Sun Lotion and prolongs tanning helps repair and soothe skin. And it's full of it says with the sun and water flowers I don't know what that means but. I'm smelling it right now it smells so good. Okay I'm sorry I cut you off I didn't get to hear your face sunscreen and got so excited about the nuts. No I totally understand very excited about it too, and I have a British passport and we're starting to talk about maybe just moving to England. So thank maybe I'll be able to get some. But? Okay Don't play around because next thing you know you're going to be roped into an international nooks syndicate and. I'm going to be giving you my DHL number and. Just getting I would never I would never. I would never do that. We'll talk. About about strangling. Are you really considering leaving like how real is that? It's pretty real We are You know I think we were talking about more theoretically, and then we found out that some other friends of ours where one member of the couple is British and the other one is American like have already gotten a place to live and they're going to go in October. So yeah, I. Mean at first it was as a corona virus thing and then they started opening up film production in England. So it's You know things are just kind of getting back to normal there, and then also we're just terrified of the election and. I feel like as a couple where I have a British passport and my husband doesn't there might be a situation where he's not able to get. Out of north. America. After the election depending on how things go so. I'm so impressed. For girl from the valley too low key drop that she has a British passport on my. Honey. What the hell, what you didn't. Right. Sort of cultural schizophrenia where it's like, I am a Jewish valley girl but I'm also half British and I have the passport to prove it so. Shape shift. Amazing You're my hero in so many. So many ways. Anyway. On my face, I mostly use like basically almost everything I use on my face house sunscreen in it but I use the the Perricone MD vitamin C. Moisturizer that has thirty SPF and then on top of that almost every like foundation product I use has thirty to fifty SPF, and then if I'm just going out for like a hike or something I, use the like thing that I heard about from you guys which is the Elta. MD.. We love it. We love it only loved to see our fair skinned half British half Encino. To. Studio City am I wrong I don't remember. But my my Jewish grandfather's house was like on sort of on the border between an NC. No so you're close. Oh. That's good. Corinna. Oh, how is freaking? Love you. Don from Nuxie but I have to say my favorite lip balm of all time and I use it every single night without fail and it. Keeps my lips in such? A good place? Is the ducks ravaged meal it's their honey lip balm at comes in this little hot and I use it. Every single night it's my that's the best. It's so luxury it almost like adds a layer of lip to your lips. It's so good double is it is it like the word for dream? So it's like honey dream. E E E with a little. Like, accent day thing. Over the. I get confused but it either means dream or it means to wake up. So it's you're basically wing up in honey. Yeah that's and that's what we call. Good Marketing. Wow. Happy Corina on the PODCAST. Okay. Total own. KNACKS and garbage here at going up its culture, its international crime syndicates, it's. Go Francophile discussions. Okay. We are doing a big of. Wow this is that's amusing. Blessed Okay I don't Wanna get ahead of myself ESTER. Are You thinking what I'm thinking I? Think so Okay Creena, we told you a little bit about this. But. We do this segment. We do this segment on going up. It's new called sad women of history. Where we? Take a moment to really shine a light on. Women particularly. Let's see how do I put this whether they be disturbed deranged or didn't have a fair shot at life you know sad can mean so many things and it's not necessarily a bad thing. But you know we've covered we've covered murderers. We've covered sheets and scammers we've covered. Famous. Famous mistresses you know you get the picture. Men I thought you know you are the Queen of old Hollywood. So it only makes sense that we do this segment with you if you're okay with it. Of, course. Men and at the end of the segment we like to talk about. would. Is this someone that we think we would have been friends with how would they fit into our friend circle just kind of like think about our what our relationship to them would be in real life see how we can make it about us at the end of the day Yes yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So s turn I thought it might be fun to do someone who's like quasi beauty themed. And we Were thinking we can talk about Miss Rita Hayworth. I've listened to you know you must remember this psych, the episode you did on Rita Hayworth. And There's so much there. I think Rita Hayworth I always think of electron assists. And The fact that she had undergo. To undergo really painful and heritage. Basically left. She had to get her hairline lifted because people thought she looked to. Be brought out her more exotic who's an exotic airlines I guess. Yeah. So she was she was half Spanish and half German American, and her her real name before changing by Hollywood was Margarita Kency no and her father was had been a Spanish dancer and dance instructor and when she was twelve years old, he made her his partner and so like her parents were complicit and lying about her age. So she could dance in nightclubs and it was this whole sort of like very creepy thing were her dad was like sneaking into her bed at night. You know very bad stuff and so to get away from that, she married some creep when she was eighteen who was like I'm GonNa make you a star baby but first we gotta fix it hair. So yeah she it took her two years change for an airline from having sort of like a shit this dark thick. Hair was sort of a dip like the heroine dipped into her forehead, and so they did electrolysis to push back and then they did like relaxing treatments and they changed her color from like I to Auburn and then ultimately delayed strawberry blonde and so you know ever all of this stuff was done. It was this long painful process and everybody around her with saying there's no way that you'll ever succeed in this industry as who you are. You have to change everything about you and I think a lot of stars have gone through that and still kind of go through that. But with her it was where it was also tied to the perception of ethnicity you know and it's What's ironic is that you knew that it was all of the stuff that they were doing to her with successful when a studio cast her as a Spanish dancer because in a main role as a Spanish dancer opposite a white actor because the censorship board at the time had these rules where you couldn't depict what they called. miscegenation couldn't depict like an actual quote unquote ethnic person in a relationship with a white person. So if you're going to have that as part of the story, you had to cast a white person as the Mexican or the black person or whatever. Oh. Wow Oh my gosh. So she successfully was able to completely hide her heritage by the time that she was like in the spotlight I mean, I'm looking at pictures of her before and she so she's beautiful always but her hairline before I mean it really is such a market difference I. Don't know if I'd ever seen a picture of it, but it's she so beautiful and she really does like look you can see the. Can See her more exotic side. It's just it's so sad that looks like it was sounds like it was really painful which you had to go through. Yeah, it was and you know that she ended up as this beauty icon. Certainly, she was one of the the top pinups of the World War Two era and that that whole pinup of her as part of the story of the Shawshank redemption. So it's she's almost has these reverberations retired. But and you know I watched one of her movies with Fred astaire recently, and her as a dancer. She's so underrated. She's such an incredible dancer and she just. She just has this perfect dancer's body and like very few people have ever looked as good as she looks in those movies. But when you think about the cost of it like the personal cost and how she had to really become a different person, it's Definitely, a sad moment in history. Wow I, feel like it is it's always So, strange to me like but the recurring theme of how much people changed about themselves to succeed in old Hollywood like it almost makes me think like was anyone able to just kind of walk in and be themselves and make it work for like did everyone like get their jaw fixed or like pretend they're different ethnicity like it just feels so recurring. Yeah I. think that I'm sure there probably is an example of somebody who didn't have to do anything but. On some level I think that the studio system liked to find people where there was something they could fix because then it it was sort of an easy path to taking total control over them and making them feel insecure making them feel like they wouldn't be able to do it without the studios help. Wow, wow of and you just know I mean this is an obvious thing to say and I've now said it three times I think but I can't get over like how painful surgery and like beauty modification stuff must have been back. Then like I think about Maryland a million people getting their like nose jobs in the nineteen fifties like a chill goes through my body. We're they awake like I don't even know. Oh it's not right. It's just it's sad also like Marilyn Monroe is you know she had like a Chin implant yes that's. Pretty Serious plastic surgery a Chin implant like a Chin implant. Stuff back but that's On? Yeah, that's crazy town. My favorite band. Okay we. I just found this and I don't know if it's true but it feels like on a lighter note interesting to bring up that Rita Hayworth's hair care routine and Karina like. You can feel free to be like that's bullshit like. That's true but apparently to keep her hair soft and smooth. She like her sad hair that she had to completely change. If fit into the studio system, she applied olive oil to the ends of her hair. Nice and then she wrapped in a towel let it sit and then she rinsed her hair with hot water and lemon juice to get rid of the oil. Look I'm not saying we should do it. I'm just saying. It's nice to think about it's a lighter note she put oil in her hair it's a happy ending. I don't know if that's true or not but it doesn't sound that crazy I lake just a year ago or something I read like basically what's her name Blake lively like doing the same thing but with coconut oil coconut oil was trendy I know yeah. Yeah. We should all be like putting oil in our hair D- I'm learning anything. Not me either okay I need like dry shampoo. Schmidt, here we I wish with dish soap last week, and it was the best the best thing I've ever done. So just throwing that out there. Sorry Carrollton. No, that's an old school thing. I remember reading Debbie Mazars into the gloss interview. Grandmother was the most beautiful woman of all time and she washed her hair with palmolive Nowak show. I'm freaking right now I'm like. Pull that Tabah fast enough. You guys I have like major oily scalp like full of like buildup like my scalp is a nightmare and I just got in I feel like this is a gross like not chic recommendation but Neutrogena makes a shampoo called T. Sal and it has solid silica acid in it and my boat my face like love salicylic acid I, love all acids especially Salicylic and yes apparently this chimp who was like a a cult favorite gross scout gals like me and it helps take down some of the build up it. Look I'm just throwing out there might be helpful for some nasty South Globe's listening. Look. It's a straw. I'M GONNA look into that because you know not to bring it back to x amount. But like sometimes I get on the crown of my hair and there's there's like an Veda spray that has that solit- solicits cellulosic, whatever it is. That, I use sometimes but have a feeling the neutrogena stuff like we could probably prevent it. Oh Yeah. That seems worth looking into I also WanNa like lightly touch on. Are you guys to? The trend or like the the behemoth I should really say that are co washes. Have you guys heard of these? Things so. That makes me feel better green. I want to hear more about this but the ideas like it has no soap or detergent in like soap is actually like what's fucking up your hair? What's fucking up your? HOMER homer so men. So this is like once you train your hair to not use so and it's this thing called co wash like all your problems will be gone. I fell for this one did not go well, it just made my hair. So Greasy it was like heavy dripping it was awful I seriously need to find like the dish soap equivalent of shampoo because I don't want to keep using dish soap but I need something that's going to work and just drive that hair out to dry it out because it's greasy the Dafur wash it it's meal just use dish soap make deb's grandma like just get it together. Let's go. You're right. You're right. You're right about that note. My let's let's talk about. Let's go back to re day with for a second. I just want to say I think she would be such a good friend because she was down to do whatever it took to be a star she lake. go-getter that's someone you want on your team look maybe that also means she back stab you I, don't know but I'd like to think I'd like to think she's a pretty would have been a pretty cool friend. I'm going to flip it around and say I want to be her friend I want to be there for her it sounds like she went through a lot. Like I don't care if she's a good friend or not like she needs she needs people in her life. That are there for her and if I could go back in time and do that, I would do it in a second. Yeah I agree I think that she was lonely and she might have had. A different life if there are more people around who are supporting her and giving her self esteem who weren't men because it seems like that's you know, should go through these phases where she'd be in a romance and she would sort of put all her faith in a man to rescue her from the things that were not good about her life, and then it wouldn't work out and it would be sort of an emotional disaster and I think that like that's sort of sort of more important because I I get the sense that she wasn't really about fun to hang out with. You know there's these stories about her when she was with Orson Welles and like he kept, he tried to build her build up her self esteem and be like you know you're not just a sex symbol. person but then he would take her around you know with his friends and she felt very intellectually insecure and she would just sort of clam up So, yeah. I think that it the first step is to be a friend to her so that she can be a frontier you. Yeah. Yeah. Hands. Together. You know give her big. Hug. Tell her. Everything's GonNa be okay and like maybe go to yogurt with her. Show her a good time Lord knows she needs it. Oh Gosh Rita we this episode is dedicated to you. Guys. We all have our skin journeys. Don't we today's episode is brought to you by Kerala Judy? Okay. So I have really dry skin crusty I get dry I get dare I say crunchy now there's curators okay whether you are trying to take control of your acne you're fine lines or dark spots clogged pores whatever it is curable. Customize a prescription formula with reactive ingredients picked for you to tackle your skin care needs. All you have to do to get your treatment plan. As you answer questions, I love him brands do this. I, love the so much they. They give you a little quiz, a little survey and they learn about you and they customize it for you. It's so much fun You even send in cell fees to cure allergy. That's right. They want yourself fees. I. 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COROLOGIS DOT com slash going up you guys check out what they can do for you guys, Randy sklar here. I WanNa talk to you about what I'm wearing under my pants right now and they are my favorite underwear in the world and they are Mac Waldon's and makes the best. Men's underwear and close, but the underwear I'm just telling you. I've never had underwear like this in my life I've worn them so much they bring me so much comfort. They feel good. I can sweat in them and don't stink I'm just telling you. I exercise in these things I, wear them all the time I feel great on stage when I'm wearing them, they are I started wearing the silver. That's my favorite is the silver silver pattern or I don't even know what you call it the silver type and I literally got rid of all my underwear when I start and bought eight pairs of silver. So I'm telling you they sponsor a podcast but I would use this stuff. No matter what they're just they. They are made so well, they stand up. So well they fit. So they fit under your pants in under your shorts. So well, they don't bunch up again. I can't really San of good things about the silver brand that they make. It is the best I have sweatpants from these guys. I've got golf shirts for macworld and they make is so good. They put so much care into it started from scratch they engineer their own fabric they made sure the design process was meticulous. So you can count on the fit being the same each time they really care about all that stuff and it's shown in the work. All I, can say is it's the best underwear I've ever had got rid of everything else once I started wearing it and I only only only by those and the folks amac welding, their amazing. They've created their own totally free loyalty program called Weldon Blue Level one gets you free shipping for life, and once you reach level to spending two hundred dollars. Mac Walden will start giving you twenty percent off every order for the next year. It's amazing. These guys are incredible. I love love love their stuff so much for twenty percent off your first order, you visit Mac weld in dot com Mac K., W., E. L. D. O. N. dot com slash star Burns and enter the Promo Code. Star Burns S. T. A. R. B. U. R. S. again, MAC WELDON DOT com slash starrewards, and enter the Promo Code Star Burns for twenty percent off your first order become a member of loyalty program. It can only help you. You will love this underwear so much. You'll love as much as we do, and that's a whole heck of a lot. MAC WELDED DOT com slash. Promo Code starnes. Carina are there any other women in history that you think we should be staying aware of and look into like Jean? Harlow comes to mind like just anyone who you feel like has has a somewhat tragic story that. We should be paying attention to. I mean so many you know I. I unfortunately, those seems to be the stories I'm the most attracted to in Hollywood because there's just so much drama and and because they usually Kinda tell you about something more than just that one person they tell you about broken systems or you know corruption or whatever it is So it's hard to narrow it down I. Mean One thing that I I've been doing research about this actress lately, Joan Bennett. I don't WanNa. Tell you guys too much about her story because I'm hoping to tell it myself. But she somebody for whom like she was. She was a blonde and her sister was older than her and was super famous Blonde Starlet and then when Joan got in the industry, it was like well, you know she's fine but she's no constance Bennett and then she met this guy who is a producer who she ended up marrying but that producer had made heady. Star and he basically was like Jon Benet we're going to give you a makeover. So you look just like Henny Lamar. And instead of it being like perceived as Copying hetty Lamar weirdly gave Joan Bennett her own identity and so she then became like this fa Fem `fit-all of film noir as Brunette with this sort of smoldering look. Wow. Wow that's I cannot wait for that episode. Throw forward I've ever heard one. I'm on board Oh my God. Any other famous Hollywood Chin implants have the top of your. But maybe I'll have to come back a third time like and it'll be disappeared implant day I'll do some research. Gosh I mean to make you do the Labor. But I. AM curious. You're out and buy curious God Shinhan plants I mean who that's something to think about. I. Mean. We're they're women getting cheek implants back then just care has do we know? Like what am I weird at surgeries were happening? was they were kind of doing experiments weirdly. A lot of these things weren't codified or as commercialized as they are now. So it was just a question of like asking plastic surgeons to try to solve problems I mean, that's the you know. If you guys listen to like that season, MC me over the first episode was about this silent film actress who I had never heard of who had had basically Hollywood's first well-publicized weight loss surgery and what they did was they literally just sliced fat off of her legs. And I was just. Turned, it was a disaster like the recovery took forever and with super painful, and then basically the gossip columns went from calling her Pudgy to calling her too skinny. That is not yeah that's bad. Episode, I'm I'm blanking on the name but. The weight loss like Health Guru. Madame Sylvia. was small good. I was. Ready to like sign my life over to Madam Sylvia. I know that's I mean the stuff that met Sylvia was doing was basically lymphatic drainage massage which like I'm not GonNa on I went I went and got I I went to the this year for the first time and I got a lymph drainage massage the day before, and it's like it was so painful. Horrible. Own. My God. So it was like your whole body they they. They use a Thera Gone Lake but then they put my legs in this like basically electric sleeping, bag it like it goes up to your waist, and then it's all like your whole lower body and it just like squeezes you. And then meanwhile like doing. My current on your face. Oh. and. I don't know that I look that much better. You know from that I mean it's probably the kind of thing where you have to do it once a week and I was just like, let me get try to get a quick fix the day before having a, you know go to this thing. Oh Gosh. So juries out. Jury's out on whether it worked. I'm sure. Yeah. Well. Thank you but it's like, yeah, I was just you know try basically trying anything because I felt so insecure going to the Oscars. I the day before or the morning of an event I went to that like those sweat lodges were you like in a heated sleeping bag and they just like sweat you out and it was the weirdest experience but I will say like I felt. So globally after it like your face, you just have that hot yoga glow it was it was pretty great. That's good to know they say I mean look wash. J rollers look. Do I do it consistently? No, but they say that facial emphatic drainage like. Take. They say at work. So I, hear. All I know is right now, I'm adding a book to my car called Hollywood diet and fitness vintage secrets. Okay I'll keep you guys updated. Corinne expect some excessive late night emails with glory pictures of pages. Just, seeing some pages that look interesting like Jean Harlow for day Diet ooh No that one isn't it just like. Isn't it just basically like black coffee and corn bread? Oh. Let's see. I'm trying to zoom in here. So doable for me. Oh God I am seeing I'm really zooming in on this blurry Amazon screen shot, but I'm seeing the words to lamb chops black coffee black coffee is coming up a lot. Yeah. That sounds about right. Look. All of all of the nineteen thirties diets are basically like black coffee would to lamb chops and embroiled tomato. ooh. Oh, I'm going to read some quotes I know we're running over, but now I'm getting a second wind. Here's one. This is apparently a quote from Grace Kelly oatmeal keeps me from being too hungry until eleven. It's nice. Who thought who would have thought about grace. Kelly, like just got down. That sensible. I like that. That one's a good one. That when the tracks into modern day I was good. Oh, this is good. Esther I. Think you'll like this one from Betty grable dancing is the best way to keep your legs trim. It's kind of Nice interesting. There you go. Okay. Look. I have about the book yet. Okay. These are just the samples they're giving me. They're obviously not gonNA give you the best stuff in the samples okay. But. Whatever I'll keep you guys updated I'm GONNA learn a lot next time. You see me I'm GonNa have a chin. Implant Just. Happy for whatever. Oh. We love you so. Much implant. Thank you so much for taking the time to. For. Your greedy leave you for coming on. It's just like. An honor. Honestly. Thank you guys so much I. Love Your Show and I it makes me so happy to listen to and I'm so happy to talk to you again. Yeah we love your show and thank you for taking the time to sit with us. By, create US book listen to as podcast if you know what's good for you, do those two things and go back and listen to our first episode on glowing because it was it was a fan favourite. That's for damn sure. That's that is for damn. Sure Creena is there anything else you want to promote or tell us or like tell people where they can find you? You can find me on twitter at Karina Longworth, and then the podcast is you must remember this and it's on I tunes and everywhere you get podcasts and Have Patriae on its patriotic dot com slash Karina Longworth which helps me pay the people who help with the podcast even when we don't have new episodes and have no ads. Nice. Oh Carina Oh Creena I saw your tweet about going to Humphrey bogart which is one of my all time. Favorite La Yogurt places creed I'm sure you know this but you know who worked at Humphrey Yogurt. What she was in high school right Meghan, markle. Bam. Okay we should. How on that note. Mismile from ear to ear. This is been a joy cleanup we love you and we will soon. See you soon I know. Thank you so much. Thank you guys by everybody. Sterling's. A podcast network.

Hollywood Rita Hayworth Sephora Corinna Los Angeles writer Karina Longworth Joe Creena Creena Ta Esther Williams Hollywood star Howard Hollywood Mister Caroline Mr Carolinas Corinne Krino Barney Fanning
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes with Karina Longworth

The Bechdel Cast

57:47 min | 2 years ago

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes with Karina Longworth

"Over three hundred twenty five years ago. The community of Salem, Massachusetts was rocked by something that few ever thought possible. It's been called an outbreak a wave of hysteria or the perfect storm at the confluence of seemingly unrelated ideas events, and beliefs, whatever, we try to call it, though, we always seem to miss the Mark what bothers me so much so many people say how ignorant people were back, then that's historian. Emerson Baker professor of American history at Salem state university. How could they possibly believe in witches? And that they were well I remember in sixteen ninety two which is were real everybody believed in university ministers. Doctors of theology governors pope's, which is our real the Salem witch trials are equal parts universally known and barely understood by most people. That's why this series exists. New episodes of this twelve part series. Air every Wednesday. Learn more and find links to subscribe over at history on obscured dot com. Cast questions asked movies have with. Discussions with friends and has introduced they have individualism patriarchy's FM vast start changing it with the Dow cash. Hello and welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and my name's Caitlin, Dante. And this is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Is that right? Boy, is it. Ow. No Kraft colloquialisms don't count. Did. I say man, dude and boys so much, and I feel like I need to erase those from my vocabulary this so so instead girl does it has what I meant is do gender-neutral I use it in an gender neutral way. But I know a lot of people who feel that it's masculine and then don't like to be called did fair. Wait, what's our podcast again? So we talk about the representation in portrayal of women and movies. We use the Bechtel test as just a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about representation tree. Oh, yeah. If you're not familiar with what the Bechtel test is it is a media tests that you apply usually two movies, but really anything with a narrative was I originated in a book by Alison Bechtel. And I wanted to briefly mention that because a couple of fans of ours. Viola and tie mentioned that the. This was created by queer icon, Alison Bechtel, and then it was actually in the comic strip. It's two lesbians talking about how little representation there is of lesbians in movies. Yeah. So just to throw that out there that we recognize that. And because what's happened with the test? It's kind of been like appropriated by Streep. Yes. So I just wanted to call attention to that that it was specifically the characters in the comic strip are talking about how they see so little representation of acquiring. Yeah. Yeah. For the purposes of artists Goshen, our version of the Bechtel test requires that in a piece of media to women with names, speak about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue evening UPC's, very low bar. But if you've heard any of our episodes before you'll note that it is challenging. Oh, yeah. Yeah. John J movies cheat. What do you mean what was the one in? She's all that where they're like. I think you should kill yourself. And these like that's mean in that passes the Bechtel past. But we'll do a better job than that. So demo at Jamie. Okay. Hi caitlyn. Hey, jamie. What's up on nothing? Just saying out with my gals talking about movies. Oh, you know, what this movie made me you have a new appreciation for what's that plush colored shorts? Yeah. There are some male athletes, look nude. Well, now, he's not. Yeah. I broke it. To lie. But oh boy those flesh colored I forgot about the flesh tone shorts. And they really they really came on strong in this loved it, certainly. All right. Well, what's how much further? Do. Let's introduce our guests. We're so excited whereas for our guest today, she is the creator and host of you must remember this podcast and author of seduction sex lies in stardom in Howard Hughes's Hollywood, it's Karina Longworth high highs for having me thank her during the. You we've been fan Girling on the text. Excited and we're excited to talk about this movie in particular today. We're discussing gentlemen, prefer blondes nineteen Fifty-three movie musical comedy directed by Howard hawks. Jane, Russell Marilyn Monroe. We I don't think we've covered movies with either of them in the before. I don't think. So. No. So a big I hear on the Bechtel cast today. Like, it's the only Marilyn Monroe movie. I can think of off the top of my head that where she is basically paired against another woman. Yeah. Right. I'm not I've seen some like a hot. And I like that movie a lot or at least I did pre Bechtel casts to now I have to see it again. And then decide but I haven't seen seven year edge. And I don't really know not familiar with her other work, really. So I grew up with a Monroe appreciating on coal really laid it on thick most likely for all the wrong reasons of and I have seen a lot of a lot of her movies. I hadn't seen this movie in at least ten years, then I remembered liking it by remembered liking Oliver movies editor so I was pleasantly surprised and challenged by this movie at a number of points where. I thought I predicted because of the time it was made at what was going to happen and very often. I was put in my fucking place. You. Green. What what about you? What's your history your relationship with this movie? I probably saw it for the first time, and I was a teenager. When I kind of I discovered Marilyn Monroe and thought she was interesting. I don't know how old you guys are. But like I was a teenager in the nineties, and I like I remember pretty early in my awareness of who Marilyn Monroe was Elizabeth Hurley made this comment. If you guys heard this. She basically said something like if I was as fat as Marilyn Monroe. I would kill myself. I was just thinking about that today. Because like, I mean, you watch this movie, and she does not look fat at all. And like, but in the ninety s in sort of waif culture, I remember watching this movie and thinking both she and Jane Russell just had these beautiful womanly bodies that light. We're not really being represented in popular culture at that time. And so that was probably like that my first moment of appreciation of the film. And and it's something where I've seen it. So many times now that I almost can't even really enjoy it as a movie anymore because it's I just know it so well, but then I was watching it last night. And there are always things that I forget about it like in the demonstra girl's best friend, the fact that like the women in the chandeliers are in bondage. What are you talking about? Summit. Just like some of the conversations like have some really interesting aspects to them. There's some lines at dialogue that I I was just like what just but. Well, okay. Yeah. I had never seen this movie. And I just watched it the other day for the first time. Well, you know what I didn't like it. But I'm not gonna let that, you know, really cloud any judgment in terms of our discussion. What didn't you like about it for we? I felt like it took forever to get a story going. I feel like you don't really know on Hollywood musicals. Yeah. Stop and go. I don't know we can talk about it in discussion. But this is just never going to be a movie that I was going to enjoy. But but but I'm excited to talk about. Okay. So I'll do the recap of the story. So we meet Laura Lee, that's Marilyn Monroe's character. And we meet Dorothy Shaw. And that's Jane Russell, they are best friends, and they are like a performing duo who who sings and dances. They're saying about Arkansas, they look gray. We loved them Lor lie is engaged to a man named Gus as mend. He's a rich guy who showers her with gifts, but whose father disapproves of Lor lie because he thinks that she's like a gold digger which fair she gets with strategy. Right. Yes. And Laura lie and gusts are going to travel to France to get married and Dorothy is going to go along on this trip to chaperone at kind of vague reasons yet it seems like it's like at the request of gusts. But, but then he also doesn't seem to honor their either way we gotta get you just go with him because you later shows up in France, I think for business reasons he can't go on the same boat. I that's why Dorothy is there because he like knows that left to her own devices. The Marilyn Monroe character will like. Probably just like hook up with another rich, dude. But she. So Dorothy is supposed to be stopping that. But Dorothy is the very easily distracted by attractive men. So yeah, color classic Olympic team distraction. I yeah. I mean, they they enable each other in in fun ways. Oh, yes. Yeah. And they get on. What's basically, the Titanic Lada Titanic? It's like this movie is like what if the die Tanic didn't didn't crash, but was sexy, really? So law relies on the hunt for a rich man on the boat density for doors Dorothy, right? Yes. And Dorothy is chasing after these Olympians because unlike lower life, she cares more that a man is handsome than he is rich. So or like, I would argue can give her pleasure or something like that. They have like the money versus pleasure argument with them. Meanwhile, there's this guy named Mr. Malone, and he is trying to get close to Laura line. Dorothy in at first, we don't really know why there's this guy named Mr. Beekman, aka pig. Pay pay. Oh, I picks. Piggy owns a diamond mine, so lower ally is like trying to cozy up next still piggy piggies like yes, she thinks I'm hot. Should we note? The piggy is like older, and overweight, and it's not attractive. Yes. He doesn't hit the western standards of the that we're used to. He's got a monocle though does and that's kind of hot like Mr. monopoly truly does. I guess Mr. monopoly would have also been philandering misogynist, right? So Laura line sees piggies wife's diamond tiara and she for Regan love, and she's like, I gotta have that. So while that's happening. Dorothy, and Mr. Malone are like giving each other the Cutie I until she sees him spying on taking photos of law rely while she's with piggy, which is just like the scene in the gym in Titanic. Right. So then Dorothy is like, oh, he must be a private eye. The Gus is I think dad hired is what she speculates keep tabs on lower lie because he's just trying to shut down these impending nuptials between Laura lie and gusts. So then Dorothy, she's disappointed that her new crush is a spy, but. And she and Laura li- like crap we've got to get these incriminating photos from him. They're like, let's to very difficult problem headache thing to watch two thousand eighteen let us. Mr. Malone and stripping. And rob him. Yep. Well, you know, we could talk about talk about it there. When that scene started. I was like, oh, I forgot about this part. And then it just gets more and more and more intense. And then 'cause they're like gas lighting him. He's like what's in this drink? Oh, it's just Botka. And we're Laura a turn up the heat. Let's roast kill it. Oh, it was crack and then never mentioned again next day. He's he's like up. Like, you should honestly break up with Jane Russell, if that's yeah. She plays behavior goes both ways. Baby. You can't rupee anyone. No. And then maybe this is just me not knowing how boats work, but they somehow get the photos developed on the boat as if there's a hun- dark room on the Titanic. I mean back in the day when people everybody used to take photos on film like you could get photos developed almost anywhere. So I would believe it like I mean, I wasn't alive in the fifties. But in the eighties like literally photoshopped on any corner. Okay. Okay. I found it a little difficult to suspend my disbelief for their being a dark room on a ship. But hey, maybe maybe there was I don't know. Let's go with it. I also the picture that is developed is so fun. Whatever like the goat in the snake and the picture, right? They're doing like an act out of like how animals eat each other. And it's it is incriminating I suppose, so then so for some reason this is even crazier to me, Laura. Life shows the photos to piggy she did not need to do that. She could adjust destroyed the film. But that's not what happens instead, she's like here. Here's what would have incriminated us if these photos got out, and then piggies like, wow, you're so awesome. For showing me, these I'm gonna give you a gift about it. I think that was her playing a long game. That was how I interpreted that of like, she'll definitely get something now. But she also might get something later if she just doesn't outright blackmail him. Okay. Cam on your side. And then she'll still have those pictures forever. Yeah. Okay. That makes me like her character even less, but more TRS, right? So then he's like, oh, how about how you know give you motorcycle or something? She's like, no, I wondered wife's diamond Yara now. So he gives it to her like seems reasonable. Then it's revealed. The Mr. Malone was audio recording that conversation, so he still has incriminating evidence against her. And it's like, bro. You have the equipment. Just start a podcast, you know, don't exploit women. So then Dorothy is like, hey Malone. I like you. But if you try to, you know, exploit my friend, I'm not going to like you anymore out. So then they get to France and share board, which is where Titanic tand left from. Then there's a shopping montage and then love it. And then we get to the hotel where lady Beekman piggies, white his wife. His wife accuses Lor lie of stealing the diamond tiara, and then the hotels like you guys can't stay here because much like a little scene in a movie called Titanic. Where someone except this time. She actually did have. Yeah. But you know, a robbery scene a rubber scene involving a Kip related robbery. Yeah. Close enough specifically about diamonds. Yes. And then Malone had told guesses dad about the goings on with Laura lie. So he's like the wedding's off. And then here's things get really wild. Where the cops show up to arrest Laura line. So she runs away and then Dorothy pretending to be lower lie in like, a blonde wig, or maybe she dyed her hair blonde. She goes to court because you know, when you're arrested you immediately go to court afterward. So that happens and then Malone shows up, and he's all like he's about to sell out lower line the door. He's like, hey, I'm Laura lie. But my friend doors is in love with you. But if you say anything bad about her, I won't love you anymore. And he's like never mind JK. She blackmails him in public these like, okay? And then he figures out where the TR is. And it gets returned to piggy. And then Laura line and Dorothy, Mary gusts and Malone and kiss. And that's the end of the movie, it sure is. I I didn't hear anything weird or awry half. So to answer your question. The story that unfolds is why I don't like this movie. Okay. Stupid story. But oh, okay. But I'm willing to to hear arguments to the contrary. Okay. Where do we where do we start? I just wanted to note that the source material. Even though the believe the screenplay was written by a man, but the source material is from a screen writer named Anita loose who's also novelist and was like one of the first I think contract female screenwriters or has she wrote most of Douglas Fairbanks first movies. She was one of them the biggest screenwriters during the silent era, and then in the nineteen thirties, she really helped to shape Jean Harlow persona by ratings for movies. And then she wrote several memoirs about her time in Hollywood, which are really great says, she's a cool, lady and. She initially wrote gentlemen prefer blondes as a serial that was published. I think in Harper's bazaar, and it was inspired by this friend of hers, h l Mencken who is a New York intellectual who was a middle aged man extremely intelligent. And he was just like completely overwhelmed by his attraction to some little blonde showgirl. And so Neil lows basically wrote this satire about how somebody who could easily be dismissed as a dumb blonde floozy was actually incredibly smart and kiting and was able to intellectually overpower in her own way like giant of letters. Yeah. And that happens in the movie, I think, yeah. I mean, it happens a bunch of times there won't be. Let's start there with the how men are portrayed in this movie before we get to lure lion. Dorothy. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like played for comedy a lot. How men are in? This movie are absolute. Early handicapped immediately by their own erections, and like willing to do almost anything to even spend time with Laura live be anywhere near her. We see it with gusts who I don't think we're led to believe he's an idiot. He's not a brilliant, man. He's no man of letters. No. But he's you know, he's he's wearing glasses. That's Hollywood go for. He's not dumb. Right. He's got some stuff going for him. But he's, you know, Avs, anytime Laura says something needs something asks for something no matter how rational he gives it to her. I don't know. I mean the same goes for piggy. But I I don't know. I mean, this is seems like a very dated format. I feel almost plays into. I was thinking about when we watched teeth Kaitlyn, and how you know women are sometimes portrayed as the cunning creatures that want to take things from you need to sort of be neutered in order, and domesticated and you see kind of shades of that. But Laura's character always wins and always gets what she wants. And so it it feels like those sorts of stories are being commented on sort of where she is genuinely very manipulative and cunning which. Women are commonly accused of being right? But she also gets what she wants. And isn't in the end is an punished for wanting those things which seems like a victory, right? I guess what bothers me about it. Like, there's a scene at the very end whenever she finally is face to face with gusts father who has long disapproved of her in the idea of her and you see him start to warm up to her because she's pretty in the Hugh says a lines, and like, hey, I thought you were supposed to be stupid. But you're not I'm confused now. She's like Gus just give me three minutes alone with your father. And then everything will be fun in her breathy. Fuck voice. Yeah. But then it cuts immediately to their wedding. So we don't even get to see like, and we do see other scenes where she is like, you know, cunning Koi with her sort of like manipulation. But I feel like there was an opportunity to like see. Okay. Let's let's hear be smart and do something. Well, that speech. She. Gives at the end. I thought was like pretty effective in demonstrating that point where this intially when she is confronted with the father. And he's like, hey, your as hot as they say, anyways, you can't marry my son, and she has well, I thought was a really cool interesting speech about is it if girl is pretty that's not the reason you marry her, but it certainly helps right? Which is you know, we can unpacked that statement all day. But she is like demonstrating that she understands what she's doing. She's not ashamed of it. And she doesn't think she has to be. And I don't know she's can contrasting it. Basically, the father is accusing her of only one in your marry her son for his money. And she is like look she's contrasting being beautiful as being a value in a woman to being rich and evaluate a man, and she's talking about this double standard in. I think as aggressive of language as an actress Marilyn Monroe could in a movie of nineteen fifty three. Sure for sure. Yeah. And then and then the scene before when she says to Gus something akin to like, well, I didn't become this way. Because I wanted to like the way society said up made me this way, right which I think is like basically the thesis of that character riches that she understands that the world is set up to exploit her. And so she's all behavior is kind of a defense mechanism like she's beating people to the punch by exploiting them. And you can argue as to whether or not that's good feminism. But I think for the time it was a certain kind of progressive. Yeah. That's true. And seems to have a level of practicality to it where I mean, I don't know we I would argue that, you know, they're they're sort of representing two different kinds of feminism where Marilyn Monroe's character is more of a survival based understands that society values her until she's a certain age or until she looks a certain way. And then she. She's on her own. So she's like kind of stockpiling now. So she'll be set later because we have to assume there will be limited opportunities for her as she gets older. So in some ways that like level of self preservation and just good old-fashioned redistributing the wealth, I'm all for that. Certainly, I guess it just bugs me a little bit that a large part of what she does to sort of exploiting people or so she's using largely her looks in kind of like feminine wiles to get what she wants and because women have historically been valued only for their looks. I find that a bit troubling. But also, maybe the fact that she's using that very idea and using it to get what she wants is good. I don't know. I just do you know what to look at it? I mean, I think in the Connor. Text of the time. This is being made. Her options are limited short just by what society will allow women to do. And of course, there's like always outliers there. And we could argue that Laura lies should go to college and get a doctorate and become a scientist and dumb become a woman in stem. Yes. Queen go off, and you know, really defeat the patriarchy singlehandedly. But given I dunno. I understand the the movie goes out of it's way, more than an average movie of this time to get across to you that she is trying to survive the only way she knows how with I mean with the support of a man. But also, I don't I don't know. I I ended up liking law relies character a lot more than I thought that I would and endure thieves as well. They I mean, they're both symbols from on board for door of survival. But it only because she. Mike star to do to pay the bills when she turns. She's the one who's gone and become a woman in stem. She's going to be like, okay, I've had all this X. I'm going back to school. Well, you'd have similar discussion on the breakfast at Tiffany's episode another movie that I simply do not like, but I understand that because women have had to kind of use unconventional ways to get things, you know, capital or opportunities and things like that. Because they've not been afforded to us historically that is something I appreciate and like to see stories about. But I guess when it's like, hey, I'm a beautiful woman. And let me explain that to get the things I want like, I don't know. I guess it's just because great that that's available to you. But what about all the women who aren't, you know, conventionally attractive by western beauty standards. Like what it's a very individual approach for. Sure. Hey, let's take a quick break. And then we'll come right back for more. Okay. Hey, it's Jamie from the Bechtel cast. I'm here to tell you a little we're having a sex advertisement today. I want to tell you about Lola. It's a female founded company, offering a line of organic cotton tampons pads in liners, but guess what? They now offer stuff for a sex heads to Lois seeks to empower women to make decisions about their sex lives there ultra-thin lubricated. Condoms? Ever. 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So Karina this is like your old Hollywood, this is your expertise. So what are you? What are your thoughts? Well, I mean, I I enjoy the movie more than you do. I think that it's fair to say that the story line is thin and silly. But that's part of just it being a musical comedy of nineteen Fifty-three. I also think that this movie kind of critiques previous musical comedies and various ways, I mean, and that was typical of musical Hollywood musicals of the nineteen fifties is and they had a meta quality to them singing in the rain would be another example of that where they're sort of quoting previous musicals and making them a little bit more ridiculous while at the same time also blowing you away by certain technical things like choreography and costuming. But I mean, I've read about this in my new book seduction sex lies and start him in Hollywood. Tell you what. Because of Jane Russell who was the second of two actresses who Howard Hughes basically discovered and turned into major stars. And basically previous to this movie. Jane, Russell was most known for being an Howard who's as the outlaw but really most known for being in the publicity surrounding Howard Hughes as the outlaw Wenjun was entirely built around exploiting her breasts and showing as much of them as Hughes could get away with at the time and at the time right after this movie came out Hughes was sued by some of the shareholders in the studio he owned ARCO and the main focus of their complaint was that they thought that Jane Russell was a waste of money. And that she wasn't a good actress wasn't a good star. And that he had squandered the shareholders money building her up, but the timing of their lawsuit was really unfortunate because it came to court right after gentlemen, prefer blondes came out and had been a massive hit one of the top ten highest grossing movies of the year. It was the biggest blockbuster of the summer. And it turned her into a star almost as big as Marilyn Monroe. So that lawsuit didn't go very well for the shareholders. But one of the things that I do find really interesting about this film is the fact that she had been absolutely the target of like the most withering male gaze. At mean. Also, the other thing about the outlaw is that a lot of it is built around a rape scene and a lot of the publicity around it featured like a cartoon of the rape scene. Oh, so this is all detailed in my book is well, but so she went from that to playing this role of Dorothy in gentlemen, prefer blondes where it's all about her gaze. It's all about her objectify men. Her costumes are comparatively really covered up compared to what she had worn previously, especially the scene where she is like singing about her sexual desire for these Olympic dancers like the wearing shorts make them look naked. And she is wearing a high necked comparatively high necked black jumpsuit, you can't really see her cl-. Leverage which was what she was known for at that time. And she's not it's not a thing where she's singing about I want these men to want me. She's singing about how she wants them. Right. So I think all of that is really interesting. I mean, I I love Jane Russell. And a lot of the reason why I love Jane, Russell's because of this movie, I really liked her character a lot. I would say I prefer her. Brunette there. Caitlyn prefers brunettes new movie coming out the new what men? That scene was so interesting in having that context for is so helpful because I assumed that that same as just commentary on other musicals, like what you're saying where you know, you're going through the screen full of women in various bathing suits in treating them as set dressing, and all that that happens all the time even now, but that scene was so fun and seemed to communicate like it knew exactly what it was doing. Jane russell's. Great knit. She's so funny and all the all the Olympian men were just vacant. They're all they none of them. They were just flexing their just bodies. They're just exactly like they weren't even allowed to in the way that some scenes like that would like the women turns to the guy who's singing and goes like, ooh. But like they didn't even they were just there. They were a Tomasson flesh toned muscle, boys. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Oh, great. But. I would say that while both of these characters both Laura lie and Dorothy, the store boils down to basically a friendship between two women and the things that they want and how they try to get them. But they're also framed pretty much entirely by the men that they're attracted to like, what type of man they're going for. That's all like their personalities are defined to us. Yeah. Like like, she goes for this kind of guy. So she's this and Dorothy goes for glasses spy, and so she she's this girl. Right. So using that as a way to characterize women is, you know, not the best way to do it. But we still. Yeah. 'cause I mean, they're very distinguishable women. But there I would say pretty still archetypal where it's like lower lies the like blonde ditsy airheaded doesn't know at TR is right doesn't understand where France is kind of thing. Although that exchange does passive. They'll test. Yeah. I'm the place to even the stereotypes of blondes brunettes some ways. Although I guess I'm I mean, I don't know. I guess I'd have to revisit the old trope book because I don't know the brunettes would be portrayed as like seeking constant sexual stimulation and pleasure, right. I guess she's framed as because she's not blonde. She's just like different from that like archetypal like ditsy blonde type so in because she's not blonde that means she's smart instead of airhead she's sarcastic. And that's basically what we know about Dorothy, I kind of wanted. Well, I wanted to talk about the title of the movie gentlemen, prefer blondes because one it reduces women to their hair-color, which means it's objectify women's all of Maryland. Career. And this is something that happens within this movie and in countless other ones. So that's, you know, not great, and it perpetuates the idea that like the blonde bombshell is the ideal standard of beauty for women, which has long been perpetuated by the media and movies like this one. I I mean as pertains to Dorothy character. I like her a lot. I liked her relationship with Malone felts more authentic than a lot of relationships. I think you said got banter, they've got banter, she, you know, she starts out by kind of calling him out where in that first interaction. They have at the table. He is lying to her. But he's saying like, oh, I'm rich, and I've got all this stuff. And she's like, you know, fuck off. That's not what I'm interested in. Yeah. Leave me alone. And I've found besides the fact that you know, she rupees him. He lies to her. Those two things aside, I've relationship to be very pleasant or more, you know, and again, it's like we have to contextualize everything with a movie like this and for for this time. I thought it was a kind of sweet relationship, and you know, to the end it it could have been very easy for him to, you know, do his job and not do what she told him to to save the relationship. But he does he values her above spying on Marilyn Monroe? I would argue that he she is very forgiving of his not that great behavior. I do see rupees him though. No one really comes out ahead as flaws. Very. Hot on one hand there is that classic like guy initiating a relationship under false under a false identity thing. But then she rupees him. So right. Is it a wa but she has to tell him like so often what she I don't. I don't know. I am about to try to defend a roof scene. But she only does that because he's sneaking around spying on her friend to me this whole storyline. Plays out where she has to keep being like you keep trying to fuck with my friend, and I like my friends, so you'd better not do that. But if you don't do it, even if that's where your intentions or on, you know, noble. She bailed on him when. Yeah, we didn't. That's not immediately takes another. Well, we don't know how much time passes, Sarah. But the not like come to the extreme defensive this movie. But I I think that might be a little bit reductive of how that relationship works. Because Dorothy does tell Malone to go Frick. Himself. If you will when it comes down to he's going to keep sabotaging her friendship, which for both of them seems like the most important thing to them where there's even that scene where Dorothy Malone there on the deck. It's all very Titanic. You know, and Malone makes a jab at Laura lie and Dorothy immediately is like I can talk about her that way. But you don't know her. You can't talk about her. She's actually, very smart and don't do that. And and you know, clearly defines the boundaries of. You know lion. Dorothy are critical of each other. But they respect each other and care about each other and want the best even though in law relies case she kind of wants Herber enough the best. Sure dorothy. Yeah. I suppose how do you? I don't know you make of that friendship. Green. I actually think that it's it's really positive especially for the time period. I mean, there are just not a lot of movies where you have two female stars who are treated by the movie as equals, you know. I I can name a few others. But like, I think that for that time period, it was really really unusual. And I do think that it is more central to the movie than any of the male female relationships. And also I'd like, I guess I just want to one thing. I don't think we've like stated in these words so much is that I don't think that what law. Rely is ultimately going after is rich men. I think she's going after diamonds like her real love affair is with diamonds. And it's this idea of accumulating. Health. And this is her way of doing it. Like, there's a whole song about it diamonds are girl's best friend. And I think like the staging of that song really plays up the idea that like because she accumulates wealth, she's free. Whereas these women behind her are like dressed in black and are like tot literally tied up there. And so I mean, I it's, you know, obviously it skewed and it's also satire, but I actually just think that like so many of the messages, isn't this Filmer positive? Yeah. I I like this the way this movie plays the friendship. I was like so surprised by at every turn because you you in even in movies now occasionally, you'll see a friendship break because you know, the husband wanted this or the boyfriend wanted this, and you know, women can have friends, but at the end of the day, the romantic relationship is going to take precedence and could break off. But they make it so clear that that is never going to be the case. It's also just nice. Something that I don't think you see very much to see two women who view the same thing. I don't know a victory and bipartisanship is Laura lie and Dorothy friendship because they've they've you life in a fundamentally different way. But they appreciate each other. They don't let it ruin their friendship, even though they're constantly like debating is money or fucking more important, which jury's still out. We don't know. But I don't know I appreciated how they that could've so easily been played into like constant like catfight he stuff in Italy. But they had like actual conversations about it. And e you know, in laurel, I would try to push her viewpoint on Dorothy Dorothy, b like no I'm going to you know, Frick the Olympic teams you later because when she does try to do that she accidentally since Dorothy up with a child. Who I'm pretty sure is like a creep in the making because he has a new line where he's like, oh, I appreciate it could looking women. And then he's like, I'll help you. Because you've got a lot of animal magnetism. Marilyn Monroe accidentally, Winnie the Pooh herself. She gets stuck in a porthole. Give leave their Winnie the Pooh poohing her or I don't know which came first either way, she's honeypot Winnie the Pooh poohing as she needs. A little Christopher Robin to yank her out that was. I bother the Pusey. And yeah, that was really what a treat. Yeah. I mean, the really the only thing with that friendship that we're the main thing with the movie that I felt like wasn't really commentary and was sort of just playing to like, and this is how a movie ends is the double wedding. And right. There was like the only major thing that happens in this movie that I was not kind of sure I guess, I guess that. That's how movies end at this time. But even that is like is putting the friendship above either of these relationships because like through neither woman is is saying like you can't be part of my wedding day. We wanna do this together. You know, one is like is like I'm the star here. It's my day. It's more like it's our day. Right. That's true. And they're yeah. They run doesn't each other. Maybe that's what the movie is saying that they're really doing. We'll just throw coded. Yeah. Oh, I like that. I guess for me it boils down to in. This is maybe just simply preference thing. But because I agree that the friendship between them is represented in a by and large positive way, more they're constantly defending each other. But they're also challenging each other. But in healthy ways, and they generally are trying to help and support each other. What I don't like is that the things that they're trying to do or to get our framed entirely around men what I prefer, I guess in like FEMA friendship story is something like thumb and Louise where you know, you got to support a friends and the men have fucked them over so they're just going to go and shoot up a bunch of Neo convenience stores instead Trent that's just my preference. My Caitlyn your furs Thelma. And Louise, I I'm sure that there's. Way you could sort of show a movie like gentlemen, prefer blondes as paving the way for other movies for that to exist of just, you know, if there were no movies, portraying two women in, you know, rider, die friendship. I think you know, those. Sure. Really quick before we wrap up the discussion wanted to give a quick shot out to lady Beekman. Maybe men. I, you know, you you feel for her because even there there's some commentary of piggy as this hornell dumb ass with a lot of diamonds who is actively philandering on his wife who we meet who is originally very nice to Dorothy and to Laura lie. And then later comes back for the tier which I applaud her for. I just want quick out to lady Beekman did nothing to anyone. No. Yeah. She just has a creepy old husband to slender live. Yeah. A couple lines dialogue that I wrote down. I Dorothy says I like a man who can run faster than I can which sounds terrifying. No, I want a very slow, man. Personally, Caitlyn prefers slow men. I forget which one of them says this I think it might be Dorothy, but someone says if we can't empty his pockets between us we're not worthy of the name woman. But that's like about the person their roofing. Yes. It is. So funny fair like two women can't like I've passed out. Jay talking and they do. That's exactly what the name. Women gusts says about Laura lie. I'm going to make her marry me. Yeah. That was not didn't love and there was one little grabby from Malone from Malone. Those like, oh, yeah. He says to Dorothy, I'm not wrong about you. And you're gonna listen to me. And yeah, says this while he's angrily grabbing her, arm and hurting so she's turning her toward him. So I know. Just playing a complicated game of dominance and submission. Fine. We just didn't see the whole contract seeing like in fifty. They censors cut that out there. A quick fun thing that I found on I'm db, and maybe create a, you know about this. But a couple years after John men prefer blondes. Jane, Russell was in another movie called gentlemen, Mary brunettes, but it doesn't seem to be a sequel or any type of in. No as it related. She doesn't play the same character. Like, weirdly, Anita. Los did write a sequel to gentlemen, prefer blondes call gentlemen, Mary brunettes. Oh, but then when it came time to make this movie, I think her niece actually wrote the movie, Mary Anita loose. But they just like throughout the original story because they couldn't get Marilyn Monroe. So they just did something else. I haven't seen that foam. Okay. Interesting. We gotta take a quick break. But we'll come right back. Okay. Hey, it's Caitlyn and Jamie of the Bechtel cab. Here's an advertisement. Hey, did you know that care of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin supplement packs right to your door. You know, I certainly did. I love an online quiz, and so care of basically, you just take five minutes, and you take a quiz that asks you a little bit about what your health goals are your lifestyle is like, and then the program creates a pack of vitamins and supplements tailored to you specifically and your monthly subscription box can be easily modified anytime, and there's plenty of options and variety. There's actually vegan vegetarians up lament options available to match whatever your dietary style is. Yeah. So for twenty five percent off your first month of personalized care of vitamins. Visit take care of dot com and enter promo code Bechtel. That's spelled B E C H E L Kennedy. Twenty five percent off your first month. Visit take care of dot com. Enter back dole, sue they. Hey, let's talk about whether or not this movie passes the Bechtel TEZ event. It's interesting. I was reading a lot of criticism of this movie after watching it and getting all my own thoughts. You know, sharded out at cetera. A lot of critics say this movie does not pass the Bechtel test. And they must be I think using a different version that we are perhaps. Yeah. Because there are certain caveats in various on on the test. But again for our sake, it's just state at least two lines between female identifying characters who are not talking about men. Yes. Using that standard. I would say maybe does. Yeah. A bunch of times. I well, I would say if we're only found a couple I think hit me. Okay. Here's here we go. Dorothy says not Europe France Francis. In europe. Laura lie says who says it wasn't Dorothy says well, you wouldn't say like, oh, where's North America? Mexico would you and she's like, well, that's why I wanted to go. It would. Passes silly. It's there a lot of the passes. I came up with it's it's tricky because the subtext of what they're talking about very almost nearly all the time is marriage. Yes. And men, and because that's the central debate of these characters as had they've you this. So I mean, there are some I got like six or seven passes of like on the page. They're not talking about men, technically. But the subtext of the whole movie it's hard over ice. Yeah. They might not mention a man's name in the conversation. But I would say almost every single conversation. I have is either about a specific man or they're talking about the concept of loving men are finding a man passes a few times in theory when they're in the process of roofing Malone. They're talking about stealing picks. They're talking about turning up the heat. But from a man into right make a man uncomfortable. So I mean, it's it's I mean, the very an as we always say, it's a flawed metric perfect the whole thing this movie's trying to comment on as like how? Women perceive marriage and men and how like how to survive and get an live a fulfilling life at this time. So it's kind of I mean, it's a tricky movie to pass. Sure. Yeah. For sure although lady Beekman and Lord light talk about diamonds. They sure do. But yet almost every conversation between women is about many there in subtext or context or like explicitly. But does pass it does our standards go movie. One quick thing that I wanted to mention is. There's a moment where whenever guesses father's like, hey, they told me you were stupid and Laura lie says I can be smart when it's important, but most men don't like it, which there are couple of lines. Like that that I do appreciate where she kind of like challenges the status quo or she points out a double standard. I would have liked that to happen more. But again thinking about the movie being nineteen Fifty-three. And yeah, this is paving the way for more progressive texts too. Come down the pipeline. But yeah, I didn't. I think I came down too hard on Laura lie. But that's just because I'm Burnett in women are defined by their hair color. Yeah. I just I when I thought that was that was cool and the there's a line where she's talking to Gus. And she says, and we touched on this briefly. But I want to read the, quote, it's men like you who've made me the way I am. And if you love me at all you'd feel sorry for the terrible troubles have been through instead of holding them against me. Right. So yeah. Those are those are mom and say appreciate I feel like, you know, all the satire, you know, reaches its logical conclusion by the end of the movie, and I don't know I thought this movie helped held up pretty damn well, given that it's over what sixty sixty five years old and a lot of the I mean, it could all the typical prejudices and issues of the era are on full display where I mean, unfortunately, it goes without saying that this is an entirely white movie. This isn't entirely straight movie. This is you know, all that is fully would it is all right in. Nineteen fifty-three. But given the time I I was very impressed with this movie. And I would watch it again. Well, let's rate it speaking of you know, how we feel about it zero to five nipples based on its portrayal and representation of women. I am going to give it I would say like two. And maybe it's because I don't really like this movie that it maybe I did let it caught my judgment. But while I do appreciate the female friendship, and how it probably did pave the way for more progressive movies about female friendships to be made. I think that because the goals of the women are defined entirely by and framed entirely around the type of men thereafter. I think also this movie was funded by the diamond industry. Like is that true now probably? But like why it's okay. This is funded by twentieth century. Fuck. But it it does like actually promote the names of several diamond Tiffany's, Cartier. Yeah. So I just got Kaelin like the movie, I didn't like the movie, I do appreciate a few of the things that does it. You know, it does challenge different gender-specific, double standards. It does show a positive female friendship. I don't know. The fact the only thing we really know about them is the type of men that they want in the only thing we see them do is things to either land a man, or in some cases, several different men if you're talking about lower line, which is fine. Hey, if you wanna fuck a bunch of people, do it also Gus is like really possessive of her and like jealous, and he's like you need a chaperone because I don't trust you because you're a woman who's hot and sell. You're probably gonna to be fair. He cannot fuss her that's true. He is not like stereotyping her. Maybe he's just like seeing her flirt with other Jews. And there is that Rufi steam, why would you send like to chopper owns someone like, you know, who's really gonna hold her accountable. Her best friend in the world. Who was like DT f- like crazy. Morning. Let me have the Horta's person. She does this is gonna work out. Great. So yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pro this is probably too low, but I'm sticking with two nipples, and I'm going to give one to each gals want to Marilyn Monroe and one to Jane, Russell, cool. Well, I guess I don't know what a five would be. And I don't want to be. Yeah. But I I'm gonna say for cool. I think I'm guess what the death. Do it three maybe three and a half. I I think the something we didn't really create you spoke to a few times was even the way this movie is framed is a little bit different. And not how we're used to seeing. I mean, certainly Marilyn Monroe, and Jane Russell are fully made up in gorgeous, this whole movie, the costumes are incredible. But the male gaze, I feel like this movie is aware of the male gaze and subverts it several times in a way that is like really effective and interesting and definitely not typical of the time the whole ain't there anyone here for love scene. That was like so cool and exciting and hopefully cathartic for Jane Russell who is, you know, for once not the center of, you know, she's controlling the camera and where they Cameron goes instead of being pursued by it and Laura lion. Dorothy. Only ones who kind of break the fourth wall in in the musical scenes, and it just I dunno. They felt fully in control of the movie, and generally the story and we're equipped to solve the problems that they were sent to. Although, of course, you're you're totally right that they're sort of defined by their views of men in the world. So I'm going to do I'm going to do three and a half and give to Jane one in Maryland half toe lady Beekman. She earned it. She worked hard. I'm getting I don't know anything about. We'll carina. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much fun. Plug whatever you want. Well, my book in which I read about this film and others made by Jane, Russell seduction sex lies and start them in Howard Hughes's Hollywood. It will be in your local bookstore. Great. I can't wait to read it when working people fall you online, and oh, I'm on Twitter at Karina Longworth, and you can find my podcast, you must remember this on itunes. Yeah. People listen to it. It's so good could three years of listening strong. Thank you. You can follow us on social media at Bechtel cast. You can go to our patriotic a matron, and that's five dollars a month. And we have two bonus episodes for you every single month gift what a treat. Oh, yes. Yeah. You can go to our merch store t public dot com slash the Bechtel cast. And you've got, you know, your favorites feminist icon queer icon, feminist icon. Alfred Molina all the designs you could ever want the stuff. So check that out in. Hey, we'll talk t- next time. Thanks for listening. See you later. Bye. Hey, guys. It's Jamie and Caitlyn Bechtel cast. And we're here to tell you about unspoiled, Paul Scheer and Amy Nicholson's new podcast were there watching the greatest movies of all time. They're going to be covering everything. That's on the af I one hundred list, that's actually doubt one hundred times. Or if it's not one hundred times definitely is things like citizen Kane psycho or raiders of the lost ark, which we also recently covered. Basically, they explore the crazy stories with film experts and actors who were actually there such as and this is upsetting to hear how miserable. It was to film. The I'm the king of the world scene in Titanic. I know that scene looks like so much fun. I'm sorry. Did Fabrizio have a cold that day? James Leo have the runs can't wait to find out. If you've heard Paul's other podcast. How did this get made love it, which is so good? It's the best or if you've heard Amy's other podcasts. Halloween, unmasked, you know, that unspoiled is going to be so much fun. This is a super team. 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Dorothy Dorothy Russell Marilyn Monroe Laura Jane Russell Dorothy Malone Alison Bechtel Gus Piggy Hollywood France caitlyn lady Beekman Bechtel Laura line Karina Longworth Howard Hughes Salem Howard hawks John J Maryland
Platonic Sitting Shower (with Karina Longworth)

Glowing Up

1:08:21 hr | 1 year ago

Platonic Sitting Shower (with Karina Longworth)

"Uh-huh. Hey glow. Me's gloominess. How y'all do it? Let's new Esther. I'm so excited about our guest today. Okay. Let's dive, right? I can't help that. She's the host of one of our favorite podcasts tyrants. She you must remember this. It's a legendary podcast if you haven't listened to every literally stop this show right now. Unsubscribe to glowing smash that unsubscribe, but an immediate -ly. She's the author of seduction sex lies and stardom and Howard Hughes. Hollywood, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the stage. Karina longworth. Hi. Thank you for having me. I love your show. Oh. Rena? I feel like there's so much to talk about I feel like, you know, you you've done so much research into old Hollywood, you must know so many old Hollywood beauty secrets. Yeah. Our diet. Like didn't Marilyn Monroe? Eat chili tell us. She actually, I don't know. If you guys have seen this. Everything's giving like people pass around her stuffing recipe, which I've made an super good. It is. Yeah, it was like she learned how to cook Italian food when she was married to Joe DiMaggio because she was trying to impress family. Who hated her? We hope how much of a bummer is that that you're the most beautiful woman in America. And you still have to learn how to cook. That's not fair. I mean, I I would argue that it only made her legend that much stronger that she can make a mean stuffing. Yeah. I guess it's just a bummer to me person who likes to microwave link cuisines by stating. I just hate that she had to impress. Joe dimaggio's family like. Didn't work. No, she's like she went out of her way to try and it didn't work and they were divorced like in a year. Did they need her to be an Italian girl, and she just wasn't get. And also like it was when a lot of a lot of different cultures, particularly like Americans. But also talion Americans felt that being an actress was Cleveland to being a whore. And so he was like if you're going to be my wife, you have to start making those horror movies. And then she, but she's still under contract a FOX and says she had to make the seven year edge. And while she was making that movie and they're doing this publicity stunt where she's shooting outside and your city, and they're like blowing up the white dress for the photographs Joe DiMaggio lake that night in their hotel. Just beat the shit out of her what she still had to shoot the next morning and the makeup guy had like cover up her black eye now. And that was pretty much the end of that marriage. I. Pig. Wow. What a dirty pig and she learned how to make stuffing for him. Oh, why does I feel like him beating her up is not really you? Gotta listen to the three or four parts Norma Jean. There's three there's three. Okay. Yeah. That's not like people don't really talk about that. That's not like a well known element to the story. Which is a bummer. He's the most biography woman of all time. Right. I don't know about that. And stuff. But certainly in Hollywood I would say that she probably has more books about her than anybody else. I'm reading that once but Esther United got dive in do the reading do the research. I've I've dabbled I've a question is there someone today that you think is comes as like who comes as close as possible to like being the next Merle Marilyn Monroe if they're in this room, that's fine. If they're not that's fine. Too vendor? Speaker in the corner more so than cranking sign had I've never seen before. But is in the room. But is there someone like Brittany is who is just like as a great blonde or as a sex symbol or a tragic story? I think all of the above or whoever comes to mind modern stars like fascinate, you may be in the same way that the stars of your it's difficult. I would say that I I don't really engage with modern Hollywood that much of it is because like my. Husband is like he writes Andrex Hollywood movies. And I just like, I don't wanna know. I don't wanna like get to put like like, my like historian and sort of critics finger is like into what he does for a living. And so I don't think too hard about it. And I I don't I don't, and, you know, also, probably like the reason why choose to do the old Hollywood stuff is because I'm not that compelled by the stars of today. I feel similarly. Yeah, it's there was just so I say Bella Thorne. I know who she is only because of who weekly. Oh, good. I have. I mean, she and things I have no idea. Sure. But I I think I followed her Instagram because it was just too much. It's like sad. Yeah. But she's as close as we have which is sad. Yeah. It's really sad. You really think Bella Thorne? No, I don't actually I was just trying to forget maybe presi cash from the hot. Hollywood complex documentary. Nobody gets that. Okay. I'm sorry. The documentary that takes place like at the oakwood appointment I've seen I've seen it. That's a classic. What so any other like strong any big icons in the old Hollywood era that you like no about their eating or dietary habits. Yeah. There's like some stuff in my book about how when Jean Harlow like had to fit into her because she would wear these dresses on camera with no underwear underneath. And like there'd be like these silk skin tight dresses said just completely unforgiving. And so when she would have to be getting ready for a movie her mom would put her on this diet of black coffee and corn bread. Why just like not something? Even like the most restrictive diets today like you wouldn't eat corn bread on. Seems like a treat. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of the stars like they're smoking a lot of cigarettes. They were on at some point there on sort of like studio sanctioned Fettah means which they didn't always know they were being given like, you know, they'd be given a shot or something where they'd be given a pill, and they weren't told what it was or it was like in a drink that they were given. And that would that do to them it just gave them energy and took away their tight. It's like Adderall or something. Yes. So the Judy Garland. Cocktail was an amphetamine in the morning, and then some kind of a Downer at night. Yeah. And that started before the wizard of Oz started when she was sixteen back in the day because Judy always kind of had this like, not wait problems. But she was like a Moore's off topic. Yes, she had kind of a round body and she was short. And so on camera that's really unfair giving don't we know? It do your telling us. I your book is amazing, by the way, you it's so incredible. I highly recommend everyone read it. Yeah. Go get it. A sap your podcast is amazing. Everything is amazing. I can't get enough. What do you what do, you know about like the dietary or beauty habits of Charles Manson anything? Well, actually, I was I've been reading this book that one of the Manson girls wrote that came out about six months ago called member of the family is by Dian lake who was fourteen years old when she joined the family, and she was like about to turn seventeen when they were all captured and she talks about how when they were all all the Manson girls were put in jail together, and like the same cell and for the first time in years they were eating three meals a day because when they were with Manson like they were so broke and they were like eating like literally going into Supermarked market dumpsters for like trying to find cabbages that were like Rodney on the outside, but good on the inside to eat. And so and Charlie like as a way of making it okay for them to eat nothing because they were so poor. He would be like like my girls skinny you guys. Don't need. To eat that much. So when they were all in jail, and they were being fed three times a day. They were worried they're gonna get too fat for Charlie to like them. And so they just started the all became believed in jail like they would eat. So that the the, you know, the warden or whatever wouldn't think anything was up, and then they'd all make themselves throw up. Wow. Good. I'm speechless. That is like they were on the same gels jail cell. I yeah. 'cause they were hanging out or they're hiding out in in death valley at this place called Barker ranch, and they were all like kind of rounded up and put in this like desert jail while they figured out like what everybody was guilty of it went to do all of them. Oh, I have another question. Not to change topics too much. Okay, old Hollywood stars in plastic surgery. Were they getting it? What were they getting? What was it like back then like what was happening? Well, I think you have to understand that intil basically Joan Crawford and Bette Davis like women in the movies, basically stopped working around forty if even that old like they would get into their thirties and they'd get married and they'd retire or they die. You know, like a lot of stories of people like Jean Harlow who just didn't make even make a thirty. So there was no there was no model for aging in the public eye until basically Joan Crawford and Betty Davis. And then, you know, I think I think they both probably had a little bit of work done Joan probably more than Betty because Betty seemed to age a lot more than Joan did. But they also, you know, they have their weird techniques. Joan like she put her face in like a sink full of every morning her entire life. As depicted so beautifully in. The pilot of feud when she dumps him. Mason terrorist. Oh, yeah. But you know, I mean a lot of the stars like because they knew that they weren't supposed to get old, and, you know, quote, unquote, ugly in the public eye like a really mess with their heads like Hetty Lamar is one of my favorite. She was you know, this brunette Austrian goddess, and she also got a patent for the technology that wifi bluetooth are based on. But nobody knew that when she was a movie star. She was a star in the nineteen forties. And then like, basically by the early fifty issue fill out, a fashion, and she was getting older. And I mean, she had been on this insane diet her entire life. Like since getting to Hollywood where she just like drank coffee and smoke cigarettes all day long and at six PM every day, she'd have steak tar tar, and that was all she ate. So by the time, you're like forty years old, and you've been living that life, and you've been told that the only thing that's even though you're super intelligent and are really into inventing things. But you've been told that the only thing that is value as your beauty like it messes with your head and she ended up. Having like a shoplifting scandal in the early nineteen sixties where she got arrested, and it was just this whole thing. And so I just think that like one of the things that fascinates me about all of this stuff is the way that Hollywood's beauty standards, obviously are damaging to people in the audience to people who are holding themselves up to that. But it's also super damaging, and it becomes like a psychosis to the women themselves that have to hold it up. I always noticed that. It's it's the it's people who I viewed as the most beautiful that tend to have the most problems or like be the most into the makeup and the plastic surgery. And I think it obviously is because their self worth is so dependent on their looks. And that just makes me so sad. Like, you're right. It's such it's toxic for the mind. It's so damaging take tar tar. It's just raw day with an egg on it. Yeah. It's like usually served with like to toast points. Yes. Yes. I mean, it's good. It's a toast point like a little slice of like a hard bread, right or something like that. I mean, I feel like I've had have staked toward her once every seven years, and it takes me that long to recover mentally and physically from eating steak tar tar, but it is kind of good. I can't believe you've had it. I mean one I was I think old Hollywood plastics are always think Marilyn Monroe's knows dry. Her chin nineteen the chin is like she's invented the chin chin implant origin reduction implant, right? Had it sort of like shave shave. Yeah. I thought it was the implant read that material thinking of Bristol Palin. Probably you do always confuse the two always thinking of Trig and Levi member leave I o our old Hollywood. -sarily? Let's kids. I always do. I always think of. Yeah. Maryland's nose job. I guess in her chin job. Then I always think of Rita Hayworth's like hairline yet. She they gave her electrolysis airline because an execution and they thought that her hair like came down to far on her forehead. Now, what was the deal with Jean Harlow death was her death be like basically from bleaching her hair that's one of the urban legends. But I don't think so the the most credible thing that I've read, and I mean, this is the sort of version I put in my book because it seems the most credible to me was that she had scarlet fever when she was a teenager, and she had basically had undiagnosed kidney disease since then and she died of kidney failure. And so young too, right? Like, I think she was twenty seven. Oh my God. Oh, my God is do you feel like Marilyn Monroe's stories? The most tragic from like the old Hollywood era. I think that it's it's it's kind of the most dramatic and a lot of ways, and it is really sad. And there's so much that it contains that is so sort of exciting and sad. And also thrilling, you know. But I mean, I don't know that I would necessarily say, it's the most tragic all there on the spot metric until you. What I think is. I think it's more like it's just sort of. It's a big sort of gem in the middle of this like fabric of of ups and downs, and like all of these sort of lives interwoven together. Yeah. I mean, there's tragedy on tragedy. But for some reason Marilyn Monroe dissect sticks with everyone right is bash yest- is it just that. She's the hottest like is that it it's part. I don't know. But she's just she's Marilyn Monroe. She's just is when you when you see like, I don't know why you would be in someone's college dorm or you like see like a corny poster of Marilyn Monroe or no givers, those like mash up images where it's like Marilyn Monroe, but she's like tattoos, and she's holding a blunt like that, John, right? Bought one of those on each ones where it's like, it's her and she's like giving like a kiss on the cheek to Albert Einstein. Raiders jersey and she has dodgers tattoo on her arm. And he's a shotgun. You must remember this. Just a deep dive into like venit. Sure. Like her making out with to pock. Yeah. That's a big one too is like the modern day. Marilyn Monroe story was like so overblown. And like, even though he the body of work, isn't like that. There aren't that many Ombu or songs it's like his images just become so larger than life and out like, yeah. It's out of control. I talk about this in my stand up, but I had to post on my wall. And I didn't know who he was lovely. I'm like, I did I think he was a Brittany spears backup dancer, like, I don't know. You don't you don't know still to this day peaking Brittany spears backup dancer? Wade. Wade the I mean, the creator he like Wade Robson created the pop phenomenon from the early two thousand laid Robson if you're listening to this podcast. I soon you know, that he's one of the two young boys. Abused boys featured in leaving never land. Yeah. But yet he created Britain. He made the best out of that situation. I know it's those two are very they're so different confirm or deny. They did not address this in the documentary. But Wade Robson and Brittany had an affair. They and Crimea river is about weed Robson. Okay. Yes. That's the rumor, I don't I can't confirm was I bear. No. But yes, of course, we all know that Justin's Crimea river video was supposed to be about the affair that between weight and Brittany. Okay. Yeah. I I think it could be true. I guess it must be true. Right. Do what what's your opinion about? I feel like as I've since I've moved to Hollywood. I've I've feel that if I've heard a rumor that's like goes around in the business. It's usually peoples talk about for a reason, it's probably true. Do you think there's truth to that? I think it depends on his talking about it. Yeah. Smart woman. I know she's wrong stronger than stronger than us anyway, leaving Neverland. I don't know if we have the strength to I know anyway, powerful people should check it out. Should we go through? Yes. Magical makeup bag. Sure telling tells what this is. So I went to the Barneys coop at the grove to buy a bottle of this perfume. What is going on rose by Frederick mall because I saw when I was a teenager. I was like a teenage Goff and teenage Goths in the nineties wore t rose oil from the body shop, and so I've just been feeling lately. Like I wanna smell like that again. But I they don't have it anymore or like, I think it's not the same formula if they do so I've just been like trying all these rose perfumes, and I like went to Barney's a month ago, and I sprayed this myself. And I couldn't stop thinking about it. So Finally, I was like I have to have it. And it just happened that the day that I went. To buy it. They were doing this thing where if you spent two hundred dollars Barney's, they gave you this giant bag full of samples, and it's like samples of fancy stuff, and I haven't really gone through it yet to to sorry. Go ahead. Thought that we could do it together. Unblock along two quick questions. One did the perfume purchase. Satisfy the two hundred do you have to add something. Oh, yeah. No. All about the perfume. So all of this. This is your lucky day. Then second question you mentioned the body. Shop can we talk about the body? Do agree that nothing is how it used to be there at all. Was it still open? There's any words in the body. Shop are just holding on. I feel like their nails are dug into the floor of the mall. Some big whoever owns them is probably just keeping it there for posterity. I don't know a posterior means, but think they're really successful internationally. Because I I was I was in Paris like a few years ago. And I did one of those things where I walked all day for like eight hours, and I needed to put something on my feet because they hurt so bad, and they would like I like cracked heels, and it was terrible. And I did some quick internet research, and like people go to the body shop and get this peppermint cream, and they had seven body shops in Paris. And then when the same thing happened to be in London like they had them in London. That's that's why he's BodyShop was like the pre lush or something. Sure, all it was like a mall access point. But there was a natural overwhelming natural feel which was probably so faith. I can't I it's hard to believe the body. Shop was really as natural as I think it is. We will be hearing about it more. Also, here's the question. Do you guys? Remember, the beads where they'd have the bins, and it'd be like the little bead filled with oil a bath. Yes. I missed those anybody still put oil in beads. I don't think I never just little shape. Sometimes I would have oil in fish like a fish that was the most fun shit ever Christmas. It was oh as red and green and cinnamon and she said eighty word. She said the. No, no, no, no. I want those so bad. Anyway, would you would you prefer a bomb to a bead or be to a bomb a bath bomb? You mean math bombs this I want to be 'cause I can't I don't have access to them of Beatty. I want to hunt and gather beads as my right as a living human Caroline. I love heads face Esther. I'm so happy said that because I love head space to head space is your guide to health and happiness. In fact, just ten days of head space had been proven to reduce stress an increase happiness. It will teach you the life changing skills of meditation and mindfulness in just a few minutes a day. And it's not just a saying this. Okay. It's backed by science case studies show that three weeks of head space reduced aggression to negative feedback by fifty seven percent. Oh, there's so many mazing stats ten days of head space. Reduced stress by fourteen percent. Doesn't need a fourteen percent less stress level. I know I do k- head space has hundreds of meditation sessions on everything from stress to sleep. He'll be guided every step of the way by head space co founder Andy put a comb who spent ten years training as a monk guided. Sorry, I'm so at peace. You can go ahead hated exercises to help you add a touch of mindfulness daily activities like cooking, commuting eating and more. You guys can start your journey towards a healthier happier. Life by subscribing head space. Sign up now at head space dot com slash going up to get a free month trial. So obviously, there's no reason not to because it's a month free. Sign up online at head space dot com slash glowing up for a free month. Trout and start meditating today. It's absolutely worth trying have nothing to lose. Caroline. What's our favorite thing in the World Food? Okay. It's true. 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This was kind of after I stopped dressing Goff because I was like dressing Goth when I was like twelve and thirteen okay. But when I was I was still kind of friends with a lot of people that were practising guts. And I remember when I was seventeen I went to a couple of graves were Goth raves. To be the had to be all ages because there was such a huge population of thirteen year old Goths in LA. Oh my God. I definitely went to tiger beat which was like an all ages. We have that. Yeah. We had something called that so lame so very quickly. What were the Goth valley? Hangouts I do need. Well. Well, I I don't know that there was like specific where you're like there were a lot of coffee houses in the nineties. And so there was a place called insomnia on Ventura boulevard. Tommy evans. Still on. Yes, they were owned by the same people. But the one on Ventura it was like a real ninety s coffeehouse dark inside all the time and like heavy velvet curtains, and you could smoke, and I would go there after like high school, and I would get a bowl of cinnamon toast, crunch and coffee, and I would smoke cigarettes and do my homework. God. In a copy shop, mocking. Tant? Out in the world and people see leading cereal in public. You order at the copy show have they have boxes of cereal. This nineteen ninety-five. Maybe an like cereal was a big deal cereal in public is. That's like a new tier we were all even carbs. Like, you weren't eating meat or butter. You were just eating car few eating giant Muffin fettuccini, Al left. Left. The fat low-fat diets fray, so I didn't eat butter or Chee. Now, I can't eat butter and cheese because I'm thirty nine like lactose. Lactose just mentioning farting. Like, all I ate was like plain bread plain cereal. Plain chicken Turkey like subway sandwiches with like nothing on the mix of Turkey and vegetable. No, no, no, no, no how I mean, they need to start having cereal in coffee shops more. That's a genius idea. There was Syria. There's a serial place in Evanston, one never were. Cereal bar. He's that is no one. Yeah. That's my missed. The subway was healthy. I like a golden era subtly done Hollywood could still get down with the subway. But I remember when you went there, and you felt really good about what you're doing. Right. We're spending five dollars chip on my shoulder. Okay. I'm just like, I know there's a lot. Good. Well, I do wanna talk more about the valley. But I want to isolate the audience, but did you feel as a fair skinned dark haired, petite female almost like it was your duty to be Goff? It seemed like the best look for me. Yeah. Or in nine hundred ninety two. And also my dad like weirdly just allowed me like my dad was really strict and didn't let me do a lot of things. But he did let me get a box of hair dye at the grocery store and die my own hair, blue black. So I just did that over the summer between like seventh grade and eighth grade. And then like showed up with a new look, that's so will estrogen you go through any questionable or embarrassing phases. As a teen. Oh, looks wise. I did I you know, I did and ever Levin phase. Which is like so embarrassing even say, but I would like wear my dad's ties. So lame like weird Dicky's that I would make my dad get me at WalMart is not a fit for you. It was not a fit. It did not match the Goldfarb airlink Marvis that epic the car. But I remember I had wear uniform at school. But at Hebrew school was when I could like really let my freak flag. Fly. Roll up the Hebrew school the tie on. So lame. But look. Byron comedy. This is why there's a lot to make up for the last follow up before we go to the bag of goodies is because you mentioned grave, but the in the real sense. Do you have a favorite like Hollywood cemetery? There's only one well forever cemetery. Westwood is so much better. Maryland is and yeah, you know, I'm really like I did like kinda do the mausoleum thing. Teenager saying I honestly haven't like really like hung out near graves in a while. Okay. This status of LA's fair star said it's kings rakings do some grave rankings. I mean, I would I mean my personal thing would be west. I actually would rank Hollywood maybe third. I would say Westwood One for us lawn. Second lawn or sorry who LAN Brittany Murphy. Debbie reynolds. Carrie, you've been there recently. Yeah. Yeah. And then I would say Hollywood third, although Stor I Judy Garland was recently moved to Hollywood forever. So I don't know maybe that they're moving her around. She's getting around. God is a wanted. There was no room where she was on the east coast. Lies a wanted to have room near her. Wait a second. She was shipped. Yeah. Judy was shipped. Judy was shed axe. Something I shed on my God. I wonder how that goes down like it's a private plane, or if it's a FedEx, I mean, I'm sure you wanna go like transp- budget, take a budget route and UBS ground budget budget option there eight to ten business days UBS ground with the rush. Overnight shit. Okay. Through the back the bag you guys just have to tell me like which of these things. I should start using already ask. All right. So the first one is mailing and gets Melanie. Yes. So this is vitamin E face moisturizer them. They okay. This is I like this product. I think this one is on scented unscented. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I ll have you heard of this brand. Yeah. Okay. I think they're great actually, my friend. Melanie gets. I think that's a really good like travel. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't bring that into the daily rotation. But I think if you're traveling though, it'd be a great thing to have in your bag. I'm more. It's like melon gets this is gonna sound sexist. But I was thinking like, oh, boy brand it is so minimal like a lot of boys. I know like soccer players deodorant. That's the word on the street. It's like really good at like preventing. I think it's just a natural wral. And again is that luxury brand that like upper echelon men are going towards totally like, I've I don't know any any checks that are getting down hardcore with Malan and get I kinda like it though for that reason because it makes us like let me tap into my masculine sidewalk. Yeah. Get. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I don't know too much about like the actual stats on that moisturizer. Like is it noncommittal genyk? Product that smells like rum. That's so good and obvious Abbadi while I think it's I think it is the body wash product is. So so I don't know I don't even drink. But I love that smell. I mean, take a sip of that body wash. Hawaiian girl. Okay. What else? Do we have Sasho -geN, especially you on? Oh. It's it's from Stockholm and this is color protect conditioner. I don't care my hair, either of you guys want this no thing. You. Brunettes? I guess. Margie Ella perfume mutiny. Oh, wow. Dramatic a mutiny in a smell it on the eight their my nose is stuffed up. I don't know if I can it. This is like this is a Barneys bag, which is that's the highest level. I feel level of beauty baby powder to me. But maybe. Left out. It does not little bit like maybe powder. It's just so hard to get passionate and excited about a little sample of perfume. You know, always so random you didn't seek it out. And it's like, what am I going to get attached to this perfume? What am I to use this instead of the other perfumes thousands and hundreds of dollars on like there's no room for you? You need. I don't have the rotation, but suppose good sign honesty. It's a little lady I'm gonna say that. That kind of vibe nowadays. But okay, this is the organic pharmacy. Lows facial cleansing Joe. Right. Yeah. That sounds like a hot runner, right? I'm excited about that. That's huge Shanta. Cal yet. Kyw lace serum anti age bio lifting Serra, definitely sounds fun. Shantou KYW's an awesome luxury brand for sure. Any third Colt? What are their coal classic products? Esther? I oh my God that's small that's really fucking small. That's an incentive dig bag though. There's things that would look good in a Dollhouse dolls fan. Like that would be. That would be girl offer. Sure, that's like Samantha's perfect. There is a dip TC. This is for men may be loan braid, Dun, Dun low. It's gotta be unisex of its Teague. Perfectly out get over yourself that he. Oh, that's nice. It's like graphs. Oh nice. Oh, yeah. This is. Oh, yeah. Yes. I've seen this before. This is definitely unisex. Oh, yeah. That's so grassy. Really? Nice. Do you wanna smell? I mean. I guess I have to point. Dip tc. Love love love them. Love to hate out. It's almost christmasy dare. I say, oh, yes. It's like a winter neck. Yeah. That's nice. It's really nice. That's a keeper. I feel guilt about burning my dipped candles. I feel did admit guilt lighting them up. But we'll get into that. Because they're expensive because they're so expensive. And it's like what's the right occasion for burning a candle? It's like when someone's I don't wanna waste it on some some like, my roommate thinks. Thanks. This is why it's like hard to buy expensive things. 'cause then you just horde them. And they never get using the new throw them away in twenty years. Totally. Oh, okay. This is a very like very good problem to have. But I have a big bottle of s k too nice. And I and I bought it. It was one hundred seventy nine dollars. And I'm like, you know, what I'm gonna try using k to like I have to do it once in my life, and I've year later, I've barely made it halfway through fairly. And I don't notice a difference. I really don't think it doesn't anything. I really feel strongly about that. But I'm like I'm gonna make it to the end. I'm just gonna finish s k to and then somehow someone at work had a bottle of s k to a huge bottle, and they're like Caroline's. Do you want this bottle? Of course. I said, yes. So now, I have two more years of using us gay to every day essence you're talking about. I went down this path to where I bought that. And I hold it until like three years pass. It was like I have to throw this away use it every day. And I do not think it does anything. But I challenge the Goma's to prove me wrong. Maybe stop using it for a week. And then like see what happens. It's water. I'm sorry. It is it's water. It does kinda smell bad and Chloe Chloe. Greece Baratz is telling me aggressively to us something. She is the turn on teen. I we cannot get skinnier advice from children. I know Lanchester she likes it. She's also like a a spokesperson. She. She feel like she like is this folks Persson for like other luxury skin care brands. I don't know. I gotta do more diving into this and the international terminal and LAX, I really learn a lot about what Kate Blanchett is doing for money. She like every other like commercial on the big screen. It's like Kate Blanchett for like this perfume company. This other luxury skin care company. She's making the international money. It's true. Yeah. I mean, if I had money to spend I'd spend it on her, right? Yeah. She's the face. You want representing you can't really be better than that. Anyway. All right. Let's see what is this son Laurent glossy stain. Oh, I think I've heard about this. It's pink innovative that's innovative product Semoran. Oh, oh my God. We use this alone. Together. I love this product. This is great this. And this is a pretty color. This is an awesome product. That's exciting. Is it glossies? Dana just ooh. Thank you it. It's just exactly that. It's like glossy enough and staying enough and not too much of either. I love the packaging. I love a black plastic with colored letters on it. I'm a simple gray is going to be mascara. Yeah. Definitely reads mascara. Okay. This is given she Larose Perfecto fearless pink. I'm a really big fan of a couple of products. I use my favorite thing, which I also have here. I use this every day and somehow like every time I buy it lasts for a year. Is this powder this hour this but in a different different ones that they have one that's green and purple for color. I have this one is like pink and white, wait. Done. I think I have this. But mine has sparkles on the top. Wait. What? So what do you use this for because I got a gift, and I've never quite figured it out. So I have like I have you know, I'm in my late thirties. And so like I have to use a lot of moisturizer. But then my foundation just like false off my face. So that stuff is the only powder that I've found that like feels light on my skin like actually sets my makeup, but doesn't like really like get sort of dry and kinky layup lines and stuff it actually like makes its has like this little bit of sparkle in it. It's yeah. And it has like a fun smell. I feel like it has like good or lady smell to it. It's a very like fun old lady garages to be on my grandma's vanity. But I always get tripped up because the graphic on the back and has a woman just doing her cheeks or four blush like I never quite figured it out. Like, it's not it's pretty obvious. Yeah. It's my favorite setting powder because a lot of setting powder. Are just white. And I don't know. I I can't figure out how much of them to use. I'm going to use that. But that like, you pour it out into the top, you know, and you kind of like mix it up brush, and it's really finely milled, it's four quadrants or they're for different shades. Yeah. It's actually almost a moment done with it. I need a new one for you. That was herbs when you finish a product. That's huge. About this too. Oh my God hitting pan. Are you close to pan on anything? I don't know if I am I I don't I'm sitting panel. My my favorite cure Weiss cream blush. Oh, I'm hitting I hit pan on it. That's a big deal. Big deal. Yeah about. Yeah. Anyway. More about that later. This is a lipstick. I guess. Oh, this reminds me of my favorite Revlon, which is cherries in the snow. What who makes that one? This is John. She that's why I started talking about much powder. You wanna see let a beautiful pink little package. Yeah. These lip products in this gift bag are pretty good. They're up there. I love conic reds. I never wear reds. But I love the legend around. I Kana grads. Like max, what's the MAC one like Russian Red or something? That's a really good one. And it found that like as I get older like I used to wear a lot of Nour's, but it's to Matt. Yeah. Nour's drives me out. I can't do Nour's on my lips the more natural. I wish you would have figured that out before we went all over Las Vegas looking for this one shade of Matt Nour's lipstick did find there is a Nour's liquid Matt liquid lip that is worth it. But that's it. Okay. The lipstick. No. But I was gonna say that Costa. Is more organic line? And they make a bright red. I wanna say it's called Phoenix. But I'm not sure, but it's like, it's a new perfect bread. I remember one time getting sucked into some kind of marketing scheme where like target partnered with a drugstore brand to make like target red lipstick. And I definitely bought it. Even so low quality definitely was. This is a hair mask from Venus. Devine's? I hear a lot about. I wanna try that. That's interesting hair masks, feel a lot for me to put on a hair out. I just can't motivate. I can't rally for the hair math. It's a tough one. It's a tough one for me. Because it's like if it's in the shower, that's one thing if you're using it in place of a conditioner. But if it's like damp, your hair, putting a hair grin, our and then go into the shower. It's like no takes a lot of times put one on like what I'll do is wash my hair in the shower. And then I'll get into the bath. I have a situation where I'll start filling the bath go into the shower wash my hair by the time. I've been washing my hair the is full then I'll put on a hair mask and said in the bath. That's and then I can just rinse it out after the bath pure luxury. Can I tell you a up that I have that is a little similar maybe not so I- exclusively take baths and took a shower, and we just moved into a new place, and I took one shower like the first week. So it was like a month ago. But so what I really need a hand held shower head in my bathtub, so I can hold it over my head. But we needed a place to like have it set up. So the plumber installed it on the wall. And I realized by accident that the exact place he put it in was perfectly positioned for me to sit under it and have a sitting shower in my path, and it is a game changer. And it's going to be the perfect place for me to masturbate. My when I get over there. Masturbate my ass, or I swear. Tagline gonna find your dead by in the city. I never I've never masturbated with the shower head. I don't get it. I with the one that I've liked talked about needing this shower head of my bathtub to everyone. I know, and I'm sure they're all like. Ooh, Esther and might not like that. It's not like that between the shower. Cali. If you run a creative business, you know, how hard it is take your clients. Look good. Did you enjoy that dramatic pause? 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We don't have to break the Bank doing it, and we can make this are most stylish yet by becoming VIP on just fab dot com. Just fab- brings you yet. Thank you. Yes. And yes, just fabrics, you, everything that's new trending, shoes, clothing accessories. So you can look like a million bucks on your budget. And even if you don't know where to start just fab- makes the entire shopping process fun and exciting with their very own style quiz, Norongchai answers, just great style. Recommendations personalized just for you. I love the style quiz because for me shopping. I get a lot of anxiety. I don't have it must have my own. You know, I don't know my grasp on what I want, and I need someone to ask me. Let's dig in and find that's the style. Quizzes personalized attention one on one baby we need that you can shop as a guest or become a just fab- VIP and ticket from us becoming a VIP is by far the best way to shop P. Save up to thirty percent off on retail, prices and gain access to tons of other. Exclusive perks Esther night signed up as VIP's, and we've found everything we needed to live our best most Irish lives. We've never had. Oh, many options we love that just fab- offers a flexible membership. So each month you can choose to shop or skip. It's so easy. And you just you shop when you want to and listen up you guys because now is the time to sign up as VIP because right now, you'll get your first style for seventy five percent office lowest ten dollars. This is an exclusive deal for our podcast listeners. So make sure you go to just fab dot com slash glowing up to get it. That's just fab dot com slash glowing up to your first style for as low as ten dollars. You can't beat that just fab dot com slash blowing up. Oh my God. Well, esther. Okay. You tell yourself what you want sexual. Completely tonic. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, that's how it starts a lot of the most romantic relationships. Just frightening started between Marilyn Monroe in Miller. For instance, you started on heavy to begin with my husband, and I were just friends at first you were understand. Yeah. Each us. Like like two years before we started dating. How did? But I mean, look we've definitely flirted with each other the first time we met, but I lived in New York and he lived in LA. Okay. A year later, I moved to LA and I like immediately put the moves on him. But he had like a brand new girlfriend. Oh, so then I became friends with him and the girlfriend. Dangerous, and then he went off to shoot a movie, and he was gone for like six months, and he came back, and he just started calling me all the time and wanted to hang out with just me. And we would hang out like we went to a baseball game together. And like we did this. We still will the thing he'd broken up with her. But he didn't tell me cool and Kim like three or four hang outs to lake basically make a move. Oh, so he made the move. I because I was like I once once he rejected me the first time that I'm gonna move. I was like, well, I never I would never make a move on somebody once they rejected me. I would just I just think that door is closed. Forever told I do think like the approach of of friendship is actually the best approach to land in the romantic spot. But what I don't understand is when it's only intending to be friends, and then it transfers into romance like that, I don't get moment that pivotal that pivotal pivot. Yeah. I don't think I could master them. Yeah. I couldn't I couldn't. But I had a similar thing where I thought that the my. Highschool crush rejected me, so I just approached him through a friendship, but I had it wrong. And that's why lost my virginity to us. Brittany concert. So much. No, that's not one. Britney relationship to virginity know Britney tour. Did you lose your rigidity after it was the onyx hotel? I know that's not great. That's really good cancelled. It was that's really rare that you lost. Your addition really limited. She didn't make it through that tour. Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm sorry. No problem. But move to these foul for tour. What this is for. I don't know this. You're so world told texture spraying. Oh texture sprayed. Yeah. Venture. Do I do I use like shampoo and just like this? Spray is a little different than a dry ship though. Jason they're rubbing shoulders, but it's more like when your hair is really flat or you're on day two of a blow out and you wanna add. And like, I just learned you know, the or obey text rising spray the bottle that it's so expensive. And I just asked my hair sizes and these. That is such a good value. The whole bag this citing that I can like test these two together. God this hit them a sham. Teach other Barney is Ben. This woman didn't even spend more money to get the bag. She was already gonna buy what she bought, I know dot your lucky day. What you're doing? And just 'cause I want absorb this. Love this bottle. This is Mike God that is so valuable this is so valuable for people who don't like. Doc goal or EBay text rising spray, but in the tiny that almost looks tinier than what they sell them the stores. That's like I I have a mini. That's it's up to here. And it was Fisher this many fun size. It's a fun. It's like this knickers that are one square inch guess it on my many visits by that. You cannot it's so is so rare on five thousand dollars. Whom I will suck my own. Learn how to do it. Thirty six dollars. Isn't that? Crazy. I can't though this is so valuable we should really go to Barney's take take my husband. You can have him. Okay. That's amazing. So anyway, that's my hair styles. How to use? That's what I had been doing was spraying it freely and wildly. But like it was like, hey, like a, greedy gluttonous hick. But she's like, no, no, no. It's just like you lift a couple hairs, and you like spritz it a couple here in just a light like a squirt here. And there little pig pen making cloud around strategically like do one at the front and like one on each side. I would. Yeah. I think I think that's probably a good way. It's like lift a section like DUIs. Braille a little section do a spray and like tussle around. I feel like I've been taught to use it as like interchangeable with dry shampoo. Yeah. I think that's wrong. No, I think it's like it adds like texture. I try to use it to lift and texture. Is. Okay. You know, what we're all showing it a lot of disrespect. I think we need to do. Dancer respect for legendary product. Oh, this is tiny. What's this? Oh lemaire. Oh smallest thing of Lemaire. You guys have ever saying. Yes. Oh Q. It's like half an application. It's so cute. Oh, you should save that little resigned. That is the Horder and me is hang out. Mike you save. I like I bought my marijuana. Like, I bought, you know, the two hundred dollar like smaller size of it. And I like I was like during a time. When like my dad had just died, and I was super stressed out. And I was definitely like not taking care of myself. And so I thought that this stuff was going to lake fix my skin will they didn't. And I mean, maybe it wasn't the best test case because I was drinking too much and eating pizza and stuff like that. But it's just like just became disillusioned with it. I don't know. I've never bought into the height me full of mineral oil. In a way. Yeah. Kind of it's just because J lo says she uses that we were all fooled and conned and hoodwink no, no one no one like worth their salt in modern day. Skin-care modern-day skin-care idol there. Now do love how the drugstores have an aquarium store not drugs or I'm sorry. The department store Lemaire fish. Yeah. That's what it was like abuse. It almost really do like it side side note, your skin is you literally gorgeous lawless, and I do feel like quickly can you please tell us what you do. So I have like some of the regular stuff that I used this is clear. Besides for that. I mean, I I honestly feel like one of the most important things is this stuff is per cone. The moisturizer with vitamin C and SPF since I started using this like I don't have to use an extra SPF, and I don't need to use a serum. So during the day, I basically just like wash my face, and like sometimes I'll put on put on some of this Sunday Riley UFO oil, especially if I feel like I have like a little bit of readiness on my nose, or like, sometimes I get like tiny little pimples like around my cheeks, I'll just sort of use this as a spot treatment that I put on this. And then if I'm not gonna like go anywhere. See anyone because I often just kind of like work by myself all day. That's all do. But then if I'm going somewhere, usually I'll put on this with which is our glass, Haya Laurent, ick skin tint, sunscreen broad spectrum SPF fifteen but it's tinted. Ooh, I I love our glass, I love tinted sunscreen. Yes. But it's a really good match for my skin color, so import so like right now, I'm just like wearing this this and that powder. Nice. That's a great very skin healthy combo things. I love our. I know they're motoring. They're they're IRO. They have an eyebrow. Boy, brow, basically. And I really like it really, I know slept on product by our glass the thing. I find about like hourglasses that they selection of what they have at Sephora is often really inconsistent. And so it can be hard to try out some of their products for awhile. I really liked their day fluid like their day moisturizer? But you could only bike basically buy it online. And it comes in this container that's hard to travel with. And then I just realized I liked the Dr perricone better. There's an hourglass store in Venice, we've been talking budget has it pilgrimage for what feels like years now and legend has it. You can make your own many like three pot face powder. We know it. Yeah. Let so. If you're free. Okay. Yeah. I'll try only could get donuts after boost liberal one time we did a one time Esther, and I did a beauty pilgrimage to Venice. Oh for the pixie store. That was such a disappointment. That was you end up returning almost everything. Yes. I did. I still do use the pill key heireann ick. Milky miss with black Oaten it. I love that mess. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm just saying a little to sent it for me. That's all. Yeah. She's not. She doesn't like the sense. Let's okay. What else is left much back at fast? Oh, the harmonised guiding water guiding and it's turned oh. Vaguely Christian to me when I guy or guiding I immediately think Jesus. I don't know. Let's smells like water. Yeah. Well, okay. Well, this is fancy Augusta's baiter to rich cream. I feel like this is like a Gook thing. Fuck we speak. He still pro. I know what does the say the says PPC cellular renewal rich cream? That sounds great. You guys went on like. You don't maybe next time. You're here Corinna will be saying it's a push thing. Courtney crashing new lifestyle serious. Yes. Push. She hasn't fully announced what it is. I think it's a copy. And who knows just saying keep your hearts and minds open at the push thing. Do you know the whole thing that the reason it's called goop is because Gwyneth Paltrow? Yeah. But the oath are because there's some like market research that says businesses have to os in them are more successful like Google and Facebook, and that's why it's called coupe. And that's probably why it's push which is absolutely ridiculous. I actually like this perfume this surge ludens. Oh it smells like fancy European stuff. Yeah. This is very Berlin. Looks like I'm gonna go clubbing in this box yet smells, really good Esther care to secured sniff. I'm I can't think about wanting to call Facebook. Five to go. He's. To become like a hundred times more attract class. Ever since you said. Ester success shouldn't not input Korean please. I think when you use that search ludens perfume like you definitely are going on face, boo. If you deserve. Okay. Do you co Genda or Kogan Dojo code coat win? But I don't. Jen is at the that's awesome. That's a you. Just got a great value there. My seller a mini of that. That's the best seller too. I think for for her money for your money. I'm still bio Dermot girl spa water is very special. Where do you get by Dermot everywhere? Now, you can get it at the most reliable places Sutton by great. Yeah. But the habit at the mother fucking Walgreens at sunset and vine. That's good. That finally granted they just like market up to like one hundred dollars bottle. No, I don't think it's always consistently teen or something. Yeah. And then you'll your inviolate great, and you will spend four hundred dollars on the vagina Jade roller by accident. But I just like jumps in your purse. Jetstream Carolina, China we were there. My gosh sample my God. I was like what is this vibrator? To know. But I'm having it at the fucking Walgreens, Walgreens at sunset and vine has upped its beauty section so much. They have it's it's awesome. When you're at the Klay get you get there a little bit early walkover. You get your candy and used just browse that section of beauty. Nobody had like a wander beauty section like they have so much stuff. Oh, yeah. That was the day. You really got into wonder beauty just because. Okay. I'm living foundation like noodles or something. I love it. And it has a wand. Sorry. I love foundation with a big DOE foot. Okay. Sorry is. But so like how big is it though, it's a massive like this lip gloss. Doe foot, but it's like multiplied by four. So it's like don't put that big. And it's just so fun to like. Yeah. Spread it on my face. It's really fun. You'll very flogger. It's very very cool. Oh, we have to talk about Libya Jade, but we also don't have time. I know. I know I I mean you, and I have a personal in my mind connection. I know we tried to get her on this anyway, really do know about. Okay. That's I mean, I didn't know better. Until today, we me and her at the same age, I know agent I used. Twos. Not creeping creepy way wanted you kinda stopped working with me. And like what life became like, a Libya Jade, and I was so jealous of this this child getting all this attention from this woman. I once worked with like love this girl like bought her a diamond bracelet. And like all of a sudden, I was like why can't just be me? So I mean, look, I don't want. I don't like seeing a child. I don't like seeing a child fall. Or stumble. But anyway, yeah. Well, there's still like a bunch of stuff. I just wanted to say go through. Yeah. Okay. I'll just oh Marvis toothpaste. I love Martissant waking tell me about about it. I need to know. It's just it's like, really classy toothpaste. What is good? It. Just tastes. Paceman? Yes. Like the jasmine flavors. Really good. There's a lot of weird flavors. But the jasmine I really like can you get into either one? Hold onto that. I like it. A Molton Brown body wash. Actually, a Sisley double tensor creations. Isabel I think about who bears collection. Okay. I'm tripping bear is a bell door nano. Tell me I did not just it's not. It's not who pair. It's who bear down. So I think it's like a dude wishful thinking damn it. But I'm sure it's still good grade. There's a son Riley title sample in there, which I'm so curious. It's outsca out. There moisturizer? Watering. Reema light moisturizer? This could be really has opinions on Sunday Riley title. Let us know. Well, I have opinions about him. Yes. Definitely gonna need a follow. Gosh korea. Dream on. Elect beauty guru. A new feeling that much old Hollywood come on. They putting the right stuff on. Just feel like because especially like, I don't know. Now that I'm like in my late thirties. I feel like so much of this culture of like skin care and stuff is not about people like me, but it should be because like people my age have more money to spend than like read the products more. And so, but I've kind of found all the stuff that I like just through trial and error, which is the best way to do it. Oh, what is the old lipstick brand? Like oh fuck. I'm going to do you know, what this lipstick brand that they recreate cul shades from actual years. So they'll be ashamed. It's like this is based off like a lipstick that was out unveiled on popular in nineteen thirty nine no white collection. Great. Yeah. That I feel like. Oh, yeah. Actually, my my sister-in-law gave me like a little gift set of theirs for Christmas. Once had like the mascara. That's like Rick. You like get it wet. I did. But I mean, it's gonna messy. I know who even got you that gift it's like the perfect for you. I'm more than this. But. Gift. Old. And then like, you know, the powder that they have it's the four that's a really old face powder that comes in like yellow and like a purple thing. Oh my God. I don't know. I don't know I'm selling out wanting to talk about old makeup. Well, you know, I have like I have bought some old makeup on EBay kind of regret it because it's kind of just like weird grow up. Yeah. But I because I went to the the max factor building where there's that Marilyn Monroe museum. And or what does it do? You know, what it is the beauty museum? Yes. Him yet. It's basically on Hollywood Boulevard right in the thick of it all into that. We should go. Yeah. Have you? What is your opinion of it? I haven't been in a long time. But I remember going like maybe fifteen years ago, and it was great. Yeah. But they had like all her max factor. Make-up dog mean it's so weird like seeing a dead person's makeup. I like they did this auction of Sharon Tate stuff like two months ago. And I got the catalog because I wasn't in town when they were doing it. And her sister was doing it at her sister's historically been very protective of her legacy. But she sold her bras. She sold like a bottle of Chanel number five that was like half us. You just think about like. Oh, yeah. She got murdered before she could finish that bottle Chanel number five. Literally, I can't even look at L Cody without getting like shudder through my body is their food. Good. I need to know. It's fine. It's like that kind of like big plate Mexican food, but you're getting like beans and rice and like a wet burrito or something. But for Christmas it's decorated so well is yeah. It's really kitschy and there's like Christmas lights. It's really fun to go for Christmas. Can we do that? He. Anyway, created this was so fun. I was so amazing to have you on your sister. Having me your podcasting legend old Hollywood legend, you're gonna mazing author. Like, it's an offer to have sort of your. She loves beauty like weeding. You know, wear people know where to find you. But if they don't know. Yeah. Please. Can they find you on a mine on wherever you can find my podcast at you must? Remember this podcast dot com or on itunes? Just search for you must remember this. I'm on Twitter at Karina Longworth, and my book is available in bookstores and on Amazon Rita and listen podcast. I mean, if you there if you haven't listened to her podcast, I'm actually jealous of you. When I will never forget discovering it and being like, what is this and just getting like, just binging. I know and krinos voice as you know, from listening episode is so soothing. Yeah. It's really special things everyone for listening. We'll see you guys next week by.

Hollywood Merle Marilyn Monroe Esther United LA Goff Jean Harlow Andrex Hollywood Judy Garland Maryland Instagram Barney Joe DiMaggio Brittany Bella Thorne Oh lemaire Karina longworth Howard Hughes Cleveland Goth valley Caroline
63: Big Daddy Data with Karina Longworth

Night Call

59:58 min | 1 year ago

63: Big Daddy Data with Karina Longworth

"You must love drag queens. Right. I mean, you're alive and breathing and it's twenty nineteen. So chances are pretty good. And if you love drag queens, you must really love rupaul drag race, the center of the drag universe and the best damn reality show on television. And if you really love repulse drag race, which we've already established you do then you're going to lose your freaking mind for race chaser with Alaska and William the smash hit podcast from forever dog hosted by two of the drag world's most iconic stars Alaska thunder fuck five thousand and William each week, Alaska and William come together to discuss dissect and disseminate classic and current episodes of rupaul drag race. It's a recap show shirt. But it's also so much more than that Alaska and William have unfettered access to all the contestants from the show's history. Special guest queens pop in and out of the studio, they call and text other queens to find out what really happened on the show, and they have an insider's point of view on. How the show is made each episode is packed with Intel Honey behind the scenes rumors can. Lecture gossip and more tea than you can handle Alaska and William bring their very own charisma, uniqueness nerve and talents to give you oral pleasure. Every Wednesday on race chaser. So subscribe now just search for race chaser with Alaska and William anywhere. You get your podcasts. It's nine fifteen pm at one thirteen east thirty eighth street, and you're listening tonight. Call. Hello and welcome tonight. Call podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. I'm has Lynch in Los Angeles. And with me is special guest Karina Longworth high over in New York, we have as always Malir Shida. Guy. Hi, I'm so excited to have Corina on the show. It feels like it's been long overdue. Yes. Absolutely. And for those of you who do not know who have been living in a cave Creena hosts, you must remember this a really really great podcasts about Hollywood history and scandal and all sorts of juicy stuff that is it's on hiatus right now. Correct. But yeah, but if you haven't listened to it, you can go back and discover a whole wealth of podcast episodes past you should also read her books her newest one, I believe seduction sex lies and start him and Howard Hughes Hollywood. And it's amazing. So you should definitely get that. But yeah, I think you must remember this is definitely like night colleges, and we've all been big fans for a long time. So we're really happy to have green a here. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm a fan of Nicole. Thank you. You. I'm so excited to talk about Radic thrillers. Yeah. It's like, I it's really it's really great. How much this series of ours has brought people out of the woodwork? Like, there are a lot of kind of secret enthusiasts. Who are like, oh, when are you going to do my like my favorite? We wanted to start off real quick just to acknowledge our new superstar the literally the black hole that was image die should say for the first time last week. So this is old news by the time. You're hearing this. But we just wanted to give it a little bit of out. Where were you? When you saw the black hole for the first time the black hole blip. Yeah. Where were you Karina? I think I was I had just turned on the shower, and I was waiting for it to heat up. And I was looking at it on my phone. Nice dangerous. I live way to this black hole has a name. And it's what has a couple names actually, just got a Hawaiian name. But it's it was originally an eighty seven star, you know, who Lara. It took me to realize that MED three the musical act slash band named after a star system. I it took me until I was today years old. Well, it's a really beautiful one. So he puts a good one. But and it's very appropriate. When you think about it because it's very galactic music like you feel very starry eyed when you're listening to I had no idea until like a year ago. So, but yeah, eighty-seven is the new the new hot galaxy in town. I know that there's been a little mini series coming out about it. And like the the the woman who actually was kind of spearheading the entire project to was kinda credited later on down the road. Of course, we tend to lose credit for our women in stem, and astronomy and stuff like that. But that was interesting. But I think like I like just reading what people felt seen for the first time, what kind of reactions did you see I missed this. I think Jezreel had a good post where it was just like they just opened up the comments and said Alice how you feel about the black hole. And of course, a lot of it is jokes. Like a lot of people had a lot of good jokes about the black hole. But I think I think it's interesting because it's something that, you know, you feel like you've seen zillion times because we've seen like re-creations of them inside movies, or, you know, in in a time life science book or something like that. Like, you you kinda know what a black hole is supposed to look like. But actually seeing an actual one is very it is an interesting feeling. I I like it. I like I like to ponder the black hole. It kind of looks like an like an ultrasound image of an eyeball. Yeah. A little bit like all that kind of strata and the lake orangey kind of background. It's a little bit too much for me. I think we've we've now been talking about the ultra black holes on the floor, you know, and now black hole like there's been a whole. Rod cat aren't black holes. Molly's fear of whole. Yes. Little the little holes. After we finish the erotic thrillers. We should just do whole that we can do the movie halls. Well, please give us a night. Call at one to four zero four six night and tell us how the black hole made you feel or any other thoughts. You might have about the black hole. We welcome them all the black holes. Evergreen content. I feel like it literally. I mean, it's. Yeah. It's timeless literally. Yes. Yeah. And spatially expanding. Eight five twelve twelve fifteen. This week's episode of night. Call is brought to you by cheers health. So it is spring time for everybody to come out of their hibernation holes and socialize again. And remember what it feels like to have human contact. I know that I've been doing a lot of that recently. It's weird. It's uncomfortable. It also involves drinker to every now and then everybody likes the good spring. Rosie here in their Wayne season's coming up you might want to Taiwan or two on two people say Taiwan on any more very old. I sounds like an old old lady, which I am. I am an old lady who used to be able to, you know, have a few drinks and wake up the next morning and feel more or less fine. But I have experienced in my elderly age as I'm sure that many of you have that sometimes it's a little harder to bounce back from two or three or four or five drinks in a night the way that you used to and that is. Where here's health is here to save the day. Cheers health is the product for responsible drinking and drinkers like an antacid for alcohol years neutralizes, alcohol's negative effects that you can wake up feeling great after a night of drinking. I now actively swear by it not just on ads here a night call, but in person with other people it really doesn't make a huge difference. You feel up to fifty percent better the next morning than you would otherwise without cheers health, and it's healthy for your liver. And it really helps you just get the day back when you might otherwise feel a little sluggish or under the weather the next day to use choose you simply take two to four capsules after your last alcohol beverage, or before you go to bed, and if you don't wake up feeling at least fifty percent better the next day, you get your money back guaranteed so night, call listeners get your day back after an evening of responsible. Adult beverage drinking to order, go to cheers. Health dot com. Enter the promo code night. Call all one word at checkout to get ten percent off of your first order and free gift that is cheers health dot com. Promo code night. Call and I g h t c a l l for ten percent off and free gift with your first order with cheers, you're gonna start feeling better. When you wake up and your liver is going to thank you. Cheers. The best thing to happen to alcohol since out call. Trump nine twenty five fourteen five eighteen nineteen. Guys. We are on our way to wrapping up. Our erotic thriller odyssey. We are. We are going to be speaking about sliver the nineteen ninety three film who by Phil noise, Illinois. I love the last name noise. It's really appropriate for this. It is we're going to get to that in the second half. Because oddly, some some recent interesting stories of fit right into our wheelhouse. Namely, the Bloomberg article that came out last week about Alexa, and other home. I guess what? What's what's the general turn ours? Smart smart, home device mart home devices. Apparently, there's an apple one. I've never heard of. So I guess they're not doing a very good job with that one called home pod. But but there's also the Google home. But alexa. I feel like is the one that everybody has in the eco-. Do you have an Alexa or echo? No. But my phone like always thinks I'm talking. Yes, syria. So is trying to wedge her way into my conversation. Yeah, I'm surprised. She didn't just say something. But I like I had dental work done last week. And for some reason Siri kept thinking, I was saying her name more than usual because I was like mumbling. So anytime, I would say anything with an 'Sound. She would be like, I don't understand see I thought I had the Siri thing turn 'cause I can actually see some use for that. If I am, you know, washing the dishes or cooking something, and I just need like to to know what time ever work. No, never what you want. Yeah. Like, she never is actually helpful. She's never able to find like the contact. He wanted hind or put on the podcast you want her to put on whenever. I'm like tell me how long it's gonna take to get to blink place. She's like do you want me to make you a reservation? Not what I asked. She wants to put down money mart things. I don't like the smart. I turn Siri off and thought she was completely off. And then she was like Hello. No, you're off. But I got really creeped out about privacy. Not that I really have any secrets, but I tried to like lock everything down a while ago. But a friend of mine just said that she that Alexa. She's a teacher in Alexa, was like chiming in her classroom with leg. Let's racy content. Yeah. I mean, it's Alexa. None of them have any tact terrible. So this article that came out by it was by team of people Bloomberg Matt day, Giles Turner and Italia. Drozdiak the difference between like having Siri on the phone. It's like you're gonna get a phone anyway. And it's like a piece of software that comes on the phone that you theoretically can disable, but Alexa, is expressly for the purpose of having a robot. That listens to you and takes your data and use. To quote, get smarter. And so this was a report they did where they talked to a lot of people who worked at these centers some are within Amazon itself. And some of them are outsourced to other companies where in a way that I feel like we've seen a lot of stories similar to this in recent years. There are people whose job it is to just listened to your recordings. Like, listen to the stuff that all these Alexis pickup because it's not just a robot that is artificial intelligence. It's way to tell you about a restaurant that you might want may or may not want to go to a lot of times these are going to actual humans who then figure out what to do with that data try to get better at recognizing what you're saying. And why you're asking certain questions and stuff like that? But like in the meantime, of course, they pick up all sorts of stuff that. You might not actually want anybody to hear such as in one case in the report, a sexual assault or probable sexual assault. It talks about the people who work at these centers picking up on this stuff and sharing it with everybody. And I guess like a slack channel or something. But it's not like for means of reporting, it it's like just talk about it like, yeah, you're stressed out. Because you heard this. So you wanna share with people or like, you wanna make fun of somebody singing in the shower or that it picked up or something which is like really creepy. Like, yeah. It would be one thing if it was like, oh, we heard this. And we need to figure out. What legally were you know, what we need to do around? What we think we're hearing right now. But a lot of times it feels like it's just like LOL or oh, my God, isn't as creepy and nothing being done. Not that I think right. Not like you necessarily want. Authorities to come in Russian help you or something because your robot heard you. But I don't know. It was a robot is not that great at like determining concern. No. No. But like, you know, the robot picks it up, and then humans here it, and then you have a morality question where before there, perhaps it was a different morality question. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I just think it's wild that anybody paid to put these in their homes like you're like doing the work for like your pain where it's just there were a couple of other articles this week to which will now be a week old for listeners. But you can I'm sure there will be three more articles about the exact same thing. One of them was how capitalism betrayed privacy by Tim Wu in the New York Times, which kind of talks about how privacy was initially thought of as being kind of like a rich person's, you know. Oh, yeah. The rich people had access to it. And, you know, poor people lived in more of like a communal living with less expectation of privacy, and then gradually how the rise of the middle class. Afforded more people the right to privacy. And now because the gatekeepers are all interested in our data and behavior that it's kind of turning around where the expectation of privacy is no longer like, you know, it's being kind of a rooted. And then there was also a really scary article CNBC, I think reported that twenty two percent of organizations are starting to track employee movement and Amazon and WalMart both. Yeah, they have the patents on the kind of their sensors that track both movement and are listening for like the rustling of bags and conversations between the cashiers and the customers we didn't the Vida scanner. Oh. It's horrible. It's very interesting because these things are all so terrifying. When you kind of come across them and they've been going on. I mean, if you start to look a about how long people have been saying like, oh, I think my phone is listening to me just by the denials of these companies. We started talking about it a few years ago already been discussion for years before that. But it's just bizarre. How little there is to grab onto even now in terms of you know, like a really trustworthy conversation about whether or not that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like everybody has opinion now about whether or not they're listening to them, especially Instagram Corinna, where do you fall out? Definitely my devices are absolutely, you know, I know because of the ads I get right. Like, it will be extremely bizarre of almost even like not saying things out loud. Just feeling denies that out loud. I thought I just thought that. And then it's like, well, you know, you could buy a, you know, steam punk laundry, hamper. It's like you've done enough other actions that like algorithm would lead you to the steam punk, laundry, hamper. Yeah. Which I did buy. Like, what is the idea static is more? Like, it's like what would be in the orphanage and returned to us. Oh, like a metal wire thing with wheels. And then like a big canvas bag inside how and no gargoyles or I know. I mean, I I guess I could attach. Could. Umbrella like. Or like umbrella. Yeah. About idea. Yeah. I feel like I remember running into so much resistance about this people really acting as if I was a conspiracy theorist like that was the only thing I really seriously. I think honestly believed something kind of in that realm felt conspiracy ish and was not universally met with people being like, oh, yeah. Though, that's definitely happening. Like when I was working at a tech side. A lot of people were like, that's a common crackpot conspiracy. And you are dome for thinking that. But now, I mean, I don't know. I don't know where the consensus zone it now because I feel like more and more people are just like reporting these things you see like every single day. Why do you think people get defensive as if it's not a thing? It seems as a thing. It's obviously thing and yet people are like, no, no, no. You have to believe it's not a thing which seems to me to be a very crazy stance because he sees if you hang bought in. So much to like overall tech culture where they've they have put enough of their chips on the thing. Like, I am going to get into the lifestyle where you get all the things I'm an early adopter on everything. Right. I'm going to put all my dad on the cloud and its owned by Google or apple whoever. And this is like not just a choice of convenience or something. This is kind of like a a principle. It's. It's like a lifestyle choice. It's like a set of beliefs. And so if you're if somebody questions the. I don't know practicality or. How how wise it is to actually do all of this stuff that it feel personal? I think for people. Yeah. I think I mean at one point it was all of that stuff was like viably utopian. And now, it just seems like there's no way you could not see it as dystopia. Yeah. It's like it's like like Newt codes or something like you've created this thing that you know, is now potentially much more if if it were to fall in the wrong hands if it's not already in the wrong. It's already in there. Whose hands could be worse. There's no there's no right hands late capitalist. There's a this is like tangentially related because one of the things I also always would pick up on that. I would talk about something like a place or a business, and then it would pop up on my Google maps. Yeah. It wouldn't be a place. I'd gone. It was just a place. Maybe I was talking about somebody a now Google maps when you're doing directions on it. It will. I don't think this is like the same phenomenon. But it's just like just sucks. It'll say like take a right. Not at the street that you're like, yeah. Yeah. It's eight it so much. It's very strange. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, what are those placements that are being bought? I think I think they have right. Yeah. Because I mean week I'm getting ones that are like really inconsistent with any place. I go like armies. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just like, I don't know. I've like totally blocked out arby's in my field division. I don't see them. And then it's like, where's the I don't know where the arby's. Yeah. Me to take a right? Yeah. It's very frustrating drying one way hat. You can't miss it through. It was my grandmother's favorite restaurant are loving RV are. Honestly there was a quote in. I think it was the New York Times. Bed. And it said that once you I'm not gonna read it. But I'll just summarize because it was kind of long. But once you realize that you're being watched or that, you're being surveilled. You can't continue to act authentically. You can't shake that feeling. And it it totally changes your behavior in general. So like what you've really lost? Once you acknowledge that you're being surveilled all the time is your soul, and that's what's slither slivers. Exactly. Before we get to sliver. Do you guys want to take a night? Let's take night. Call. Hey night. Call my name's Breen. I'm calling from Soviet ho California. And it's six forty four eight am I heard you guys on this weeks step so talking about fifty head drains, big cat, preserve and I actually business. I was in junior college, and I randomly took aches. It was a wild animal class something wild animal handling something like that. And we actually took a field trip to the preserve. And it was actually really cool. They have a lot of interesting things there. One of they talked about with three legged cheetah. So they said could still run, you know, about thirty miles per hour. Let's rethink there was also talked about how they had a. Tigon which is a tiger bothers like her mom and this these like Bob for to a tie. I thought which is when they tigon who has now with the Tigers, dad. So that was pretty cool. It was a definitely an interesting experience. But I'm all for you know, people helping out these big cats by their been abandoned right to your by weird people who think that they should probably have a tiger in their house. You know, there's a lot of people out there. All right. I call have great day. You know, it's funny. I just as a side note is how often we get the we get our all of our calls through Google voice. And it automatically transcribes it and half the time. When people say hi night, call it turns crisis. Hi, Michael all the time. Like our podcast is now Michael are Michael as yes. Absolutely. A trio. I didn't realize that different species of wild cats could diversify like that. No, I did not know about tigon. That's new. Sounds like game of thrones. It's good to know. They're all horny for each other. Maybe it's just the sanctuary lifestyle. Like. Like. Everyone knows retreat. Yeah. Have either of you have been to the Tippi Hedren, preserve? I I know one person who has I think for a story. A a profile of her. But it seems seems pretty wild. I can't believe it's still there, and I've never seen Rura either. Which like, I guess I I don't know. I'm saving it for the right moment or something. But it was wanted to we should cover that. Yeah. I haven't either I have mixed feelings about about. I mean, I'm glad the sanctuaries exists. But it's just I find it increasingly difficult to just look at animals in cages. Yeah. Not in kill as though right? Like, they're just kind of. I mean, it's it's probably enclosed in someone though. Yeah. But it's like it's just odd to me just doesn't like doesn't really know thrill like sadness little layer of sadness and just like worrying about the world. There is something interesting about the fact that Tippi Hedren like has her cat thing. And then Doris day has gone into seclusion like with her animals. Oh, doesn't have like a public place where you can visit them she just like supposedly collects sort of stray animals, these people who has leaded nobody phones in her house or something or I don't know if they're exotic at all it might just be like cats and dogs, but she, you know, she's kind of like disappeared from the public eye for the past twenty years or so she doesn't give any interviews or anything. But like the only sort of public stuff, she does is animal rescue initiatives and she supposedly like lives on a a ranch somewhere like an it's just her and her animals, she's outlived like her whole, right? Yeah. Whichever news. So. So only barely related to this. I was looking at yelp reviews for the bunny museum. Have you guys ever been to the homes Eum, though, it's a it's a museum? I think it used to be in like a little house, and is now has now moved. But I went there once in high school in it's like, it's just basically a bunch of like bunny memorabilia, and then a few funnies in a very in very close quarters. And you don't know what it is. And you make a long drive to get there. And then it's like, it's just a very intense experience that I would say probably ten percent of the people who go there respond well to the others like what if I'd is it like cafe for bunnies. 'cause I've done that before engine. Now, it is it is like you're not really encouraged to interact with the live bunnies. You're encouraged to like take in the stuffed bunnies in the bunny kind of like your race. The big in the war. I get a panic attack shocking about it. I just had to like rid myself, but you can just read the yelp reviews and get a really really good sense of what it is. I was looking into a recently because I was like funny museum sounds familiar, but I'm sure it's not this one. I went to maybe I wanna go. No, it is the same one. And I'm not gonna go to that. You know, it's it's a mixed bag when you when you go into the the place where there are a lot of animals, it's close. It is really really weird. Like, I I watched this actually really great short film that I was I was an injury in festival in Italy forces film about these like this group of old Italian men who are all like hunting for this mythical panther. That's been seen by people like an occasionally will like eat, a sheep or something. But apparently was owned like I guess by somebody in the sixties or seventies or something when it was like guess that was a trend again in Italy like among the rich people to have, you know, these exotic pets than they would get big and. Couldn't take care of anymore. So I guess it's somewhat common for these like answers and cheetahs and stuff to just be like hanging out. You know in Tuscany or whatever that's a fascinating short. I will see that. Yeah. I wonder if it's if it's available to screen anywhere or stream I will put a link somewhere for it. Because it's great excellent. I wanna learn all of my theme park fans all of my roller coaster obsessive all of my carnival loving thrill seeking freaks of nature that there is a podcast me. Just for them. It's called podcast the ride and it's available on the forever dog podcast network. If you are a giant fan of DisneyWorld Universal Studios or six flags you need to start listening to podcast the ride assumes possible. The three hosts our theme park know, it alls doing credible. Deep dives on your favorite rides in parks with your favorite comedians like Jeff Garlan, Paul Scheer. John Daly and many more podcast. There is hilarious nostalgic. Full of heart and the rollercoaster insight. You didn't even know you needed to near life. I've been a guest on pike house there. I had we talked about big under mountain one of my favorite Disneyland rides the ball time. And these guys know so much about parks. They know more than anybody about anything subscribed. The podcast the ride right now at apple podcasts. Spotify Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Guys. We have to talk about sliver. I'm really excited to talk about this movie. It made it makes no sense. It makes no sense. It's a proto cyberthriller. I love it. But I I it took me a really it was a long journey for me or erotic odyssey. Exactly. For those of you who don't know you have to talk about the end. Yeah. You have to talk about the ending of to talk about the ending almost was. This is a nineteen ninety three movie based on an IRA Levin novel who did he did separate wives and Rosemary's baby directed by Phillip Noyce as we said. And of course, it's Joe Astor house. So let's let's go first of all Carina. This was a pick of yours this one we wanted to do. But then we we asked if you wanna be on the show, and if you wanted to talk about an erotic thriller, and we were also talking about what you felt like maybe the original erotic thriller was or the history at least of the of the genre. But then we're like, oh, we just wanna watch sliver because basically. I know you said that this is a particular favorite of your so white. When did you see it? And why did you respond to do think? So I saw this movie in the theater when I was in seventh grade don't know how that was possible. I don't remember there being any trouble buying a ticket to it. I know I went with a girlfriend of mine like after school on a Friday afternoon at Universal City walk, and I just remember like really loving it at age twelve and a half and part of it was like it had a big hit soundtrack at had that. Yeah. You'd be forty the UV Florida. I think there was like a couple of other sort of hit songs, and so it just felt like so hip and adult and sexy, and like I mean, I was sort of a fledgling Goff. And I was wearing a lot of black chokers, and Sharon Stone wears a choker, and like three seen this movie while also kind of pioneering at leisure, these incredible lake leggings and like. Kashmir coat look. Yeah. Straight from the gym like to the bedroom. Look. Yeah. But then I saw it a lot after that. I think it was on TV lot. And then there was a period around two thousand three where I was. I'd been living in San Francisco, and I was going to move to New York, but I was still hanging around after I had to give up my apartment, and so if staying with a friend of mine who had like a big like Victorian apartment in sort of on the border of Chinatown in San Francisco, and she was on disability for being depressed. And so she didn't have to job. She just was able to live in this Victorian apartment and paint all day and she liked to paint with movies on in the background and her favorite thing to put on vertigo. But sometimes she'd alternate it was sliver, and she would just watch the two of those movies like over and over again. And I remember sitting there for like three days reading the book that that guy. Steve Hodel wrote about how his dad killed the black Dahlia while this woman was watching sliver over and over. Yeah. It's not depressing. August two thousand three for me. Wow. It's funny because I was talking about like real estate horror in feel like there should be more of it. And then yes, it's like, well, this feels like maybe one of five movies. I can think of off the top of my I would consider realistic. Rena read the book, and I think the way more about the physical play aren't men and kind of like less about whatever these soda trying to. I mean, I have read the book since nineteen Ninety-three like I 'cause I love the movie so much as twelve and a half year old. And then like, I was like I need more. And so I I read the book then so I don't remember that. Well, but I do remember that there was more of this element of kind of like corporate satire, right? And there. I mean, I guess we should talk about what the plot of the movie is. But there are conversations in the movie where at first they're like who even owns this building at right? It be turns out. It's just Billy Baldwin. Yes. Philly Baldwin interesting choice for this role. Yeah. I mean, he makes much more sense as the guy with the manga posters and like three different screensavers like in nineteen three going on. And like some weird fiber optic sculpture in his apartment than like the. The sexy. The sexy voyeur like I don't have one half more for me than the. And as and as great as your and stones wardrobe was in this movie, like his was just re- a really bold really strange choice of the graphic tee shirt with rolled sleep into the gene, he's white jeans. Like he lives in like, he looks like a guy Brooklyn now, though, that's the crazy thing. It's like, it's come home, full circle. I know it's true. Well, a lot about this movie is like more timely than it was at in ninety three. But yeah, we should talk briefly about the plot. Yes. Which let's let's tangle it. So we have Carly Sharon Stone. And she I forget she age editor she's urging executive or something like that hot Bush's working on a James Dean biography. She has to like edit really fast. And I wish she had edited it there are no good James. It's true. It sounded it sounded like she was that. She was she had a good repertoire, and that was like slumming it a little bit. So would have been great then she is moving into an apartment, which is known as one thirteen the Wikipedia for this film says that it the building is located at one thirteen east thirty eighth street, but the actual building used in the movie was Morgan court, which is a couple of blocks away on Madison. It is a the sliver building. Because it looks like a little slice of a Bill. Apparently those were like you couldn't build those for a while. I guess before or after like this big boom them. But now, I feel like. They've come comeback baby in like, your and more obtrusive form. But I liked that it was like considered. I guess it was like a very like ochre aunt architecture style to like frame horror movie or suspense movie round or something. But yeah, it's, you know, it's this very desirable exclusive building, and she applies and she gets in, and, you know, very shortly after she moves in she realizes that the previous tenant was murdered which we see car. Yes. Naomi singer. And she meets some of the people who have in the building one of them happens to be this author the slight crime author played by Tom Barringer, who I guess are companies like trying to get to work with. But she's super creepy. Rousing. Yeah. And then also Billy Paul Dwin. Who is not creepy. No. He so. All. Game designer later video game designer have you. Yes. Okay. Fair. His signature flirtation move is to like hack into people's desktop computers. Be like Hello. I love you ghostwriter, offend them clip. Art of a flower flower the rose clue. Greece. Nobody in this movie has a sense of humor. And also I have to shout out. Sharon, stone's office, mate. Her co worker who is like do so off the rails, then constantly talking about vibrators and really unrealistic. There's a realistic way too. But it's not not being not happening in this way. By the great calling Cam. Yes calling camp. Yeah. A bunch of like great talent in this movie. Like, I it's, you know, just like weird weird. I was like where's Michael Douglas for the right Baldwin role? But alas Alec Baldwin would have been better cashback Alec Baldwin. She only Baldwin who is like legitimately scary thing whereas Billy Baldwin. It's like, it would just be so easy to be like, you know, what I'm just not going to hang out with you anymore. Just I'm not worried about repercussions of that. He can't really get his hooks in I feel like a Rupert Everett. I would like in that role better. Like, I would want like a really gorgeous possibly British person who. British would have been better. I who feels like a pasty indoor kid, but also beautiful like, I don't know. Also, there's just something really confusing about the characters seduction of like approaching her with very aggressive. Listen, do you work out. Come on. She was like what treadmills he's like. No, we're gonna lift weights. And then like drags her down to the gym where she watches him lift weights that when I realized that they were going to go to the gym. I was like yes, Jim scene in nineteen ninety three baby no mirrors November's I was going to do this piece about Equinoxe so important. So it's doing all this research. And there's a piece about like when equinoxes is having its boom in the early nineties. It's like just a wonderful slice of New York in nineteen ninety three. So it was I was into that. Oh, she also gets a telescope or. Yeah. Telescope? Yeah. Those by glass type things in her window somebody gives it is. I mean, it's later admire. Yeah, it's later revealed that it was Billy Baldwin, but she just thinks secret admirer dropped it off. So she's like also staring spying on her. Neighbors a little bit. She has a cocktail party. They watch the neighbors have sex in. It's like, oh, she's into the. Voyeur thing. But in the meantime, another person dies in the building in the the NYU film. Professor guy. Oh, right. Yeah. He dies. Yeah. The film. Professor dies the Cokie fashion designer dies vita vita played by Polly Walker who's really good in things and is kind of good in this. But also like a very strange character. I yeah. Just sort of the lake very high strung artist. I feel like there's a lot in this movie where I mean, I think that one point it had an NC seventeen rating, and then they cut it. But the big thing they cut was naked Billy Baldwin. But it also just feels like they cut out a lot of sort of narrative contact right? Yeah. It is apparent that the vita character is a prostitute. Real it only if you like really listen to like one of her phone conversation. Yes. And then like there's all this stuff where it's sort of hinted that Sharon Stone has just left marriage that was abusive and sometime in year here. Is she pregnant the okay, thank you. There's a part pretty early on in the movie where she before she gets. She she takes the bath the bath a really good bath. A really great bath. She starts stroking her stomach, and like looking depressed in the mirror, and I was like, oh, she's pregnant, and she's also been looking at the party across the way, and she's like very, obviously, not partying. And so I was like, yeah. She's like not drinking, but then she's drinking later at her own cocktail party. So I don't know. I saw that more as like she's already said she's thirty five been in this marriage for seven years. She didn't have a baby. And she's just like, you know, regretting that she's not pregnant as we all by by a holding, Billie. Villi this thing. I don't know. I mean, there's you know, there's a lot of this movie. That's clumsy. And I don't know if it's because of like the necessity to edit it for censorship or for as we'll get to test screening reasons. Yeah. But then there's a lot of stuff that I feel like I appreciate the settle tea, and I don't know if it's intentional or not. But first of all like, the I like, our this movie is incredibly slow European movie. And you're just kind of watching this like, you know, not middle aged, but like slightly older than on new age woman like kind of living her life like exploring what kind of person she is going to be there's like creepy men everywhere. But she's like kind of willing to hear them out in a way that's interesting and exposes who they are more than it exposes who. She is. Yeah. There's just like some interesting stuff with where really does feel like it's it's kind of like a post European update on Hitchcock. And then there's also, you know, like whacky sexing. Yeah. I mean, I really like her character in this. It isn't just one thing. It's like she is just the gal is like works a lot, and is sort of interested in dating, but not in like the super like all consuming, like it's her whole reason for being that she needs to find a man like she's not going to go to a poverty concert. Really long seen about again. That's on the erotic thriller. Bingo. But yeah, like, it seems like she likes her job. It seems like she's pretty successful. She wants to be dating. But she's not really it's not like she's gonna just jump into bed with whoever and Billy Baldwin like their relationship is sorta interesting in that in that kind of nine and a half weeks way where it's like some you. You're kind of through the relationship you're watching somebody figure out like what they're into I. But I think like, obviously, it's leans it's a little less up for interpretation in this film than in nine and a half weeks. But I'm in the thing that we haven't said is that Billy Baldwin like he owns the building. And the reason why that's important is because he has cameras in every room, and he has like a control room, which he brags cost six million dollars for him to Bill in nineteen ninety Bilton Osaka. Yeah. And he's just able to watch every apartment and every room in every apartment at any time. And so after he started having sex with Sharon Stone. He like reveals this to her and at first she is the fascinated by it. And she sits there for like apparently twenty four hours at a time just watching the video eating like it's like all consume all consuming, and I like that just felt to me like, oh, this is when somebody like discovers the internet for the first time. Yes, it is totally like completely changes your perspective on, you know, or I I don't know. It's like it's addictive because it's new, and it's it's a new way of getting information and information that you never had access to before. So it's just like you have no way to stop yourself. You don't have any also her reaction to seeing this is so impassive which is really surprising because you would think that she would be. I mean, she it's revealed. The like he has tapes of you know, the two of them having sex. And he plays it for her. He also later we find out has taped himself having sex with a bunch of other people. He has those tapes underneath his shoes in a little trap door thing. And like some of the stories like we got like a little kind of like plot diversion into a, you know, incest, kind of thing that's going on. It's like, you know, she just her reactions are really subtle to the fact that these like while she's watching all of these different tapes would expect her to be more upset Zeke or want to do something more which is much like we watch, you know, like taking a news on the internet or just like watching right wing through people's lives. It's like this hypnotic thing. Don't really. Yeah. Like, they really. I mean, they really oversell it. I think but like doing this thing where she is just instantly. She'll she does have a first reaction of being horrified and disgusted by this. And try and is about to walk out. And then turns around, and it's like, she stares at the screen, five seconds. Too long is like, oh, yeah. I must watch more right? Which was very I mean. Yeah. It feels. Feels understandable. And I wonder like the reception of this film. I mean the negative reception. And right now, it's like eleven percent on rotten tomatoes or something like that. But I mean about the the far fetched -ness of it or something because I feel like that is less of a problem now that maybe it was in nineteen Ninety-three. Yeah. I I don't really remember what the reception was like like amongst me and like my middle school like the reception was very high. Like, maybe maybe thirteen year olds or the idea for this movie. Yeah. Right. Also, I think it was just like it was post Basic Instinct. Yeah, I think people were expecting kind of a higher level of sophistication in terms of storytelling. Yeah. Basic Instinct was the year before I think Basic Instinct was ninety one. But I knew what maybe two years before I read like a couple of old reviews of it. And I my main problem. So the the crazy thing about this movie is that the ending was chain. Yeah. On original ending was shot. It didn't test. Well, there was also a horrible accident that was involved in the shooting of the first unac-. So the original ending in kind of. And this is the the big spoiler is that Zeke has been killing the people. There are you know, three or four people who've died in one thirteen and he has killed them. And he confesses this to Carly while they're in a helicopter in. Hawaii over a volcano. And then he flies the helicopter into the volcano. Yes. Don't know you don't know whether or not they survive. So basically, this was this was scrapped for two reasons. I guess number one being that the actual helicopter crash thumbing. And so and the pilots licenses revoked I don't know if anyone was hurt or killed like it just seems like a mess, and they destroyed the footage. So, and I guess audience is also had a problem with the fact that they were like, oh Carly like forgives the killer that makes her so, you know, unlikable, I just you know, I hate everyone in the movies. So they're like, okay. Like, let's figure out something else. Now, we'll make Tom Barringer the murderer which makes sense and to some extent because he's just creepy. He's never mandating, but creepy, but here's my issue. And I pressed green on the earlier, but if Zeke Billy Baldwin has been watching these tapes of people, and he claims at one point he's like, I never saw anyone die won the Naomi singer was pushed off her balcony. You know, it's like, maybe they. They frame it as like a suicide. But it seems obvious everyone suspicious. The man is it to people fell in the shower one person falls in the shower. Well, the the old man. Yeah. He tells them the charter, but I get the feeling that that was just like he just had a heart attack or something. But the police are suspicious questioning everyone dying in that building. Right. Could be coincidence. But then the the Cokie models prostitute dies. Yeah. It's just interesting to me that Zeke could be the kind of character who's like people keep tying mysteriously, and I have foot 'age of the entire building. Isn't that weird? Someway, like, no, I'm not going to pursue. Because he never he doesn't even his interest isn't even peaks. And the other reason that that's weird is that he had been having an affair with Naomi singer who also been sleeping with Tom berringer's character. So there was like this weird love triangle in you would think that Zeke would have a suspicion that Tom Barringer had killed her. Right. Because he probably has some insight into her psyche. And yet he never brings up like is time Barringer super creepy. Weirdo. That's never a see. It's just no it doesn't. He talk to Sharon Stone about that though. He is like I don't like that guy. I don't like that says a lot about about Z was after time Barringer was like he's so sick. But so my the only thing I can say in defense of this is that I don't think that Billy Baldwin character would want anyone to know about his video room. So he would never want to produce these tapes because his whole life is about like watching the people in this building. Right. Yeah. And so if he had to admit like how he had this footage like he he would probably go to jail like he'd lose the building. But couldn't he be sneaky. And be like, oh, I see what happened. And now I'm gonna like figure out how to build a case against Tom Barringer. I I don't know we could write a remake. It is that like that that the access to all this stuff that he's recording makes him like completely immoral or like, yeah. Yeah. Like, he he doesn't think about things in that way anymore all becomes entertainment to him. He has this sort of alternate morality like the whole thing about like, the he's watching this father molest his daughter and figures out a way to confront the father and then hells sharing own like like, we'll use will use our voyeurism for good, right? Yeah. Right. Which is like, I don't know. I mean, he's just represents like all of tech culture. Now, we don't need to bring. For his anything. We'll just have a very questionable moderation system in place that may or may not work depending on the whims of the people who are in control of it. Right. Right. And I find this like that aspect of the movie to be absolutely. And the way that it tie it like sort of is perpendicular and like hits up with this stuff of like a woman trying to find herself sexually. I think really good. It's a story of falling in love with with dick. Daddy, data. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. The ending alternate. Anything is is I I don't know. It doesn't really work for me. I was I was totally expecting it to be switcheroo, or it's like the guy you think is creepy along wasn't that creepy. I was expecting. I mean, I was like they wouldn't set up Tom injures character is being this unlikable, and then have him be the person who was doing. This has to be a red herring that what actually happens in the movie that was released is that Sharon Stone like quasi accidentally kills Tom Barringer and then in the video room. She like, basically is like, hey, Billy Baldwin like I haven't eaten could you? Go get takeout, and then he leaves her alone. And she goes into a closet and finds his tapes that like show the time Barringer was the real killer. But then she takes a gun and shoots all of them TV monitors and she says really Baldwin six million dollars set. A what is her Laos lying because it's one of those things lie. Catelli? She says and then hard cut. It's amazing. I laughed out loud. I hold. That is one of the best credit back because I was like is that what she said downing that it plays out that way. It's just funny because that is the most nineties thing about it. I think that's the one that does that feels old is that like that kind of get a life about anybody who's like like video games or into like the or anything like that like computers for nerds. Little did. We know. I mean, like, I kinda wanna watch it again because I feel like I feel like it's got such an odd balance. And I think a lot of it is probably because of that changed ending. I mean town the thing about the volcano. 'cause he does mention to her that he is always wanted to fly into a volcano when she's at his apartment Zeke. Does he has this like creepy glass phallic volcano on his coffee? It's like be without knowing that that's the that was the original ending just towns like a really really strange double on like I'd love to. And yeah, there's all the like do you have like I wrote down all of his messages like to have any body parts that hurt. I miss you. I can still. And then the and then the clip art of the rose part of the rose God. Yeah. No the stuff with the surveillance. Come so late in it that I think like if I was to remix this movie that would come at least halfway through like where she would get involved in it and become the person watching stuff because then that feels like what the movie's actually about in a way feels like a really long time to get there. And then once you get there like, oh, okay. I see what this is all been about. But yeah. But I thought it was I liked it. I yeah. I was into it was definitely belonged in the discuss. Lutely of the erotic thriller before we wrap up. I wanted to ask Grena like how she felt the the kind of erotic thriller, boom like has its place in this history. 'cause I didn't realize how many erotic thrillers just exploded I after fatal attraction, but again Repin that erotic thriller wicked. APD of the Lord's work on. I was like nice over three hundred and meaty closer to five hundred erotic thrillers produced in the nineties. She's like just seems I we have a lot more to you guys to see all the. There's there's levels of highbrow and lowbrow. All right. Yeah. But why do you think like what besides the kind of like VHS direct to video kind of, you know, making that a good movie to watch at home. That's definitely part of it. I mean, I think that if you talk about this the historical trajectory on that competed page, it says at the first Roddick thriller was double indemnity, which I think is incorrect, sir. Like, I certainly like can think of movies that would qualify that came earlier. And also, I feel like the problem with calling double indemnity an erotic thriller is that like it begins with Fred macmurray being like, I know like everything's over. And I'm fucked now, but let me explain to you what happened. And so, you know, like, it's a bad idea for him to hook up with Arbor Stanwick and part of the thing about erotic thrillers. Is that you have to suspend disbelief, and you have there has to be like a portion of the movie where you're like this is hot. But. Yeah. Workout so nine and a half like wildly sexy to like, I was very I saw at somewhat recently. I know is like it's very like. Like not at all veiled in its sexuality. And like, you know, all these ladies phones, those Fred macmurray. It's right. Right. But I think that the reason why they're obviously like weren't as many Radic thrillers until you know, let's say the late sixties into the seventies. Because of the censorship, right? There was code it literally coded ways in what you could have sexuality in films. And especially the way that you'd have to have somebody be punished if they were having marital or extra marital same with with is movies too. They always get punished. Yeah. Don't have a success. Right. I try and play. Right. Right. Right. So and that stuff starts a breakdown in the sixties. And then you also have this wave of filmmakers, I Brian depalma there the first generation of film school or Sinophile American filmmakers who've grown up watching Hitchcock grown up watching films, like, you know, these proto erotic thrillers like film noirs the postman always rings twice things like this. And then Bob ary Fulson like remakes, the postman always rings twice like, you know, even something like Chinatown is like India is a kind of sexier update. Eight of these previous genre films and then moving into the eighties nineties. You have the explosion of the home video market explosion of cable TV and the possibility of being able to get around the rating system by releasing director's cuts aided notions of films, and so you have an incentive to like have a movie that like can be released the as an are. And then have a separate version to get people to pay for it twice. Yeah. Works. Perfect John row for that stage. So is this your favorite one in the in the canon? Would you say or do you have any other other fav-? I mean, this is kind of sentimental favorite say another one that I also remember seeing the movie theater at two young age and went to by myself was indecent proposal. Yeah. I really like Adrian Adrian lines movies. I wish he'd make another one a few years ago. He announced that he was making a movie with Nicole Kidman, and I own my God hope that happens put it out put it out into the on the Airways. Officially like. This is a nature in this house. We respect like that are big time that between fatal attraction and half weeks. Like, we're all in. Yeah. Yeah. I love nine and a half weeks. I love unfaithful. Oh, full so good. I feel like we might have to talk about that. If the psoriatic odyssey. Into the future and another one I just wanted to mention it's a movie that I didn't really like it. I, but has really grown on me over time as in the cut that's your in the cut really like grows on people. They can't really let it go. And then. Yeah, fond of it. I wrote a like a big thing in graduate school about it. And Meg Ryan. And like her kind of using the erotic thriller as a way of changing her persona and comparing that movie to when Harry met Sally where like that persona was like I like fake orgasm. Like, I don't have. I don't have genuine sexual pleasure. And then in the cut is like, you know, she's just like naked with Mark Ruffalo in a very exciting way. Yeah. No. This has been great. I'm really I'm really glad to come by talk to us about this. Yes. Thank you so much cream. It was really fun. You are the original original podcast girl in hoodie, Jason person. So we also we have to shout out. I don't know if we mentioned that she was at the first night call night's event where we summon Satan at town restaurant. They'll be history of that night's. Yes. So we're forever indebted to Corinna. Thank you so much for coming by. And where can we work people follow you online? I'm on Twitter at Karina Longworth, and you can find my podcast, you must remember this on itunes or wherever you get podcasts. There's one hundred and forty five episodes, and hopefully someday there will be more is like not quite money to get. Busy for a long time. And it's really really great. It's always a good listen. Thank you. Everybody listening tonight. Call this week, be sure to subscribe to us on itunes and give us a rating and review. You can also follow us on Twitter at night. Call pod Instagram at night, call podcast and Facebook at night, call podcast, we will be back in two weeks. We're taking a week off Mojo. Molly back the whole game. We'll be back together. So we will see you. Then. Bye. Bye.

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Water Cooler: Knotts Scary Farm, Maniac, Aquaman, After the Storm, One Cut of the Dead, iPhone/Apple Watch, Better Call Saul

/Film Daily

41:11 min | 2 years ago

Water Cooler: Knotts Scary Farm, Maniac, Aquaman, After the Storm, One Cut of the Dead, iPhone/Apple Watch, Better Call Saul

"However, welcome to slash daily for September twenty fourth, two thousand eighteen. And today's episode we're talk about what we've been up to at the water cooler. This is slash show-me editor and chief Peter Surata. Jamie tastes podcasts. Slush on weekend editor, Brad omen. Hey, that's me and writers. Why TRAN Bui everyone in Chris Evangelista alot. Okay. We're down a couple men here today. As you know, Ben is off traveling internationally in Jacob is covering fantastic fest for us on the site. You can read his daily blogs on slash home dot com, but we'll have to make do without them and we'll catch up with Jacob a later point to go over all the best films. He saw fantastic fest so that we can have those on our radar going forward for the the, you know, the rest of the year bullets. Let's talk about what we've been up to. I will start things off because last week. I talked about Universal's hallway in Hornets their their yearly whole Weena vent where they have like these haunted mazes Alec to go to a bunch of these kind of events. Another big popular one in southern California is at Knott's berry farm in. It's called not scary farm and they do it throughout the second half of September leading into October through Halloween. And I think I talked on the podcast about how one of the disadvantages or one of the biggest advantages and disadvantages of hoeing Hornets is most their mazes rely on IP. So big franchises that we know in love which get us excited to go experiences, haunted houses, based on, you know, properties like strangers things and whole wing and stuff like that. But on the other side of things, having these IP's you're kind of walking through the story that you've seen in the movie and you kind of know where the. Errors are coming from, like, you know, at some point poltergeists you know, there's trees gonna come through a window, so so it kind of takes a element of creativity out of a little less. I think the the people that make these mazes have a little less creative realm to to make the scares and stuff and knots, berry farm or not. Scary farm the people there like all the mazes there, at least this year are completely original. So they're not based on any pre existing IP and basically they are able to just make up, you know, horrific, you know, stories and places for us to enter. I'm going to have a whole piece on the site about this and comparing it to universal horror nights. I will say that surprisingly, this my second year going to this event, I like it more. It's a more affordable. The d. scare actors that scare you in the scare zones or more interactive. And talkative and are are more scary. The maze is are more creative. They. They do moat more interesting things they're able to, I think, experiment more than I think universal is like they have a universal is mostly has these things in the industry. They call them blue holes in their basically where people jump out of a hole or door in the wall to scare you and nonstop do as many boo holes what they usually have. Have these characters dressed in, like, you know, makeup and masks, and some in the actual rooms with you. And there are a lot more interactive. They have been doing some interesting things with bungee. So like there's a person on like a bungee cord that is able to jump from lake, say like, you know, fifteen feet away in jumped right in front of you. So it's a very scary, the fast kind of thing out they, they do some interesting effects. They have like interesting, immature, onyx, puppets like this one as there's gigantic, shark that was trying to eat people which was pretty cool, and they also have things called show scenes. Like they have this me is called the, I think, paranormal something and the opening of bad as you go into this room and it's kinda like this. You're on. One of those reality shows like were there ghost hunters kind of thing in you kind of have a host, and then you know, shit goes down like a is. Some interesting stuff happens. So anyways, you know, I'm going to have a whole piece on the site about this, but I, I really thoroughly enjoy not scary farm. I think for your money, you get a lot more. Then you get out of holy Hornets and it's it's just a blast. It's a, it's fun time. And if you get to express pass, you can just keep on going back and forth back to the the mazes over and over again, something you can't do a whole Ian Harnett. You can only go once. I will say not to stretch his that longer than should be. But by favorite to mazes is one called the depths which takes place in this abandoned mine where a bunch of minors kind of disappeared in ends up going into like ended up going into the into the depths of the ocean with. Shark men. It's it's, it's fucking awesome. It's it's so cool so much fun. The, the other one I love is a when they came back from last year, it's called infected and it's you in the psalm, be apocalypse. You're armed with a laser gun in your basically sent in in groups through like this, you know, city like area where there's like down helicopters and cars on fire, and there's zombies coming out to, you know, you know, eat you, but you have to shoot them with the laser gun. And at the end of the at the end of the experience, you kind of get to see how many zombies you have killed and how many have like actually knew if they come within proximity, then you get a bite. And I think that's my favorite thing ever like it. Just you. You feel like you're in like a first person, video, first-person shooter video game. It's it's so throwing an exciting. The other thing I've been up to is. Is I got the, I got the new apple devices last week. I think we recording a Friday wallows waiting for them, and I got the iphone x. s max which is like the worst name ever for phone, I think. And I had the iphone x. so it is kind of just going to a bigger screen. I'm already loving it. I went to Disneyland over the weekend in was, you know, taking tons of photos because the cameras kind of improve. They did this thing where you can actually play with the depth of field, the Boca. So I, I was taking lots of photos in the key. The camera on this guys is just insane. Like I. I know it doesn't do well in low light still like, I don't think any phone does well in low light, but the camera is approaching DSL our quality in my mind and it's just incredible. I also got the apple watch. I had the original apple watch. I think four generations ago. So like three or four years ago, this is my first upgrade. So I give my old APPA watching. I got the new one and I spent the weekend also searching for fun complications and apps to use of force of for those of you who don't know complication on a watch, not just an apple watch like the little mini sections that like have, like, you know, world times and other stuff on there, the the new apple watch allows you to add more complications. So I've been trying to find like cool applications to to take up these areas. And I thought I'd quickly she share with you what I found. Just in case anybody else has an app watching is looking for some cool stuff. I found this op called water minder which is cool. And it basically tells you how how much water you need to have for the rest of the day. So every time I have a glass of water, I press, I just press the button and like ads, you know, the eight ounce glass to that counter. So I can keep track of how much water I need to have their there is another app called streaks, would kind of keep track of to do this, but it's game. So I have things on it like the take my pills in the morning, brush teeth, walked the dog in after noon, practice magic, it's stuff like that. So basically allows you to kind of game affi- that and you want to keep the streak going of doing those things every day. It's done, kind of a cool game fide reminder kind of thing on your phone. And there's also another app that it's called ETA, which. Is cool, which I think you can also give your iphone which you program in a bunch of locations that you regularly go to see like your house where you work for me, the magic castle, the movie theater in Disneyland. And when you pull up the app instantly associate with traffic, how long it takes to get to any of those locations from where you currently are, which is pretty cool. It's pretty cool to access that on my on my wrist, but I am enjoying both of those. If if anybody out there has any cool recommendations for apple watch apps or complications. Police ended up to me at Peter slash on dot com, and maybe I'll mention them on the air later next week, but that is what I've been up to itchy would. Have you been up to. So I had kind of a chill weekend. I hung out with few friends and we went to a relatively new DC bar out like a retro arcade game bar, which kind of looks like ready player. One threw up all over it and it sounds like I say that. Good or bad. It's actually, it was actually in a good way because the bar was really cool. It was kind of eighties, nostalgia, embodied. And ironically, it's a bar called players club. It's in Logan circle in DC if you are in the area near that is and it's militantly new but opened in February of this year. And it is designed sort of like your mom's basement from the seventies. So it's a basement bar and it has like all this wood-pannelling and this kind of, you know, the ugly, florals or wallpaper that you've seen everywhere as well as a lot of the kind of mustard colored and earthy tone furniture from that era as well. It's kind of it's we're a little more seventies designed than eighty, but the apply everything. Inside the the bar itself was low. More eighties. There is a bunch of arcade games such as tetris off ROY. Road and even guardians of the galaxy arcade game, which I thought was hilarious. So yeah, it was cool. There's actually guarding the galaxy or. Yeah, apparently according to the to this bar, there was one I didn't play. It was probably like pinball machine or something. So yeah, that makes sense. But yeah, there's a billiards and everything. They played a lot of eighties music, but it was kind of limited in their selection. There was a jukebox which is cool, but I could tell that after being there for a while, they basically played the same like selection like Saint playlist on repeat because those are pretty basic Madonna journey, a ha type of playlists they could improve on that a little bit, but it was very cool, very, very nice and well-designed, and I won't. I think in the beginning of the entrance, there's papered on the wall bunch of posters of aids musicians and Bruce Lee Star Wars posted, which of course we sat right now right under and a lot of board games too. So I was really boring and play. Just the board gains in connects four to be exact, but it's a really cool bar and I, I was glad to discover it. I don't think you posted any photos of. This on your Instagram, but you had some on your Instagram's stories. So if people out there are falling us on Instagram and Instagram's stories, you could've saw got a glimpse of the players club. Yeah, check it out. Twitter. Okay. Let's move onto what we've been reading. The only person here this week has been doing any reading is Chris and Christopher van reading an a new book about the history of Hollywood. Tell us about it. Yeah, I'm reading it's called seduction. Sex lies and start them in Howard Hughes Hollywood by Karina Longworth who if you don't know, she hosts the very popular film podcast, you must remember this. This book is now I think it comes out in November. I got an advance copy of it, and I basically spent all weekend reading it and it's really good. It's it's, you know, it's the story of Howard Hughes, who, if you don't have that as he was a famous aviator and millionaire filmmaker, and his story was chronicled in Martin Scorsese's, the aviator and also Warren Beatty as rules don't apply, which no one still, but. This. This is like his story, but told from the point of view of the many actresses, he basically woo throughout his his time in Hollywood, and it's it's just a fascinating glimpse into, you know, the Hollywood of old in the twenties and thirties, and it's great. It makes a really cool companion to the. They're actually because a lot of the stuff that's in the gator is actually in this book, but it's it's a lot. We're fleshed out his in that film. So this isn't out till November, but I recommend it. It's very good Karina. Longworth knows her stuff, which I'm sure everyone knows what now does this have any crossover with their podcasts like have any of these stories untold on there? I don't. I don't think so. I have to admit, I, I'm not as like up to date on her pocket as everyone else. So it's possible by think this is a separate thing. Yeah, very cool. You check that out in your local bookstore. Let's move onto what we've been watching last month. I went to one. In Burbank and visited the editing room of aquaman. I think I alluded to it at one point last month by cats. I wasn't allowed to say anything because I signed an embargo and today on state. We were finally able to write about. I saw twenty minutes of footage from the movie. We got to talk to James won- the director and you read about the the whole thing. You can read what I saw and what I thought on the site. I'll link in the show notes, but my my brief over you is coming off a comic con. I was really not excited for aquaman. So even though I, I'm big James wan fan and after seeing this footage I was very impressed. First of all, there's one scene early in the movie. I like ten minutes. The has Nicole. Kidman kicking ass in a one shot in like he actually told us like they filmed it like took thirty takes and they deal with like the spidercam rig, and it goes all around this house and it's. One of the most impressive action scenes I've seen in a while in it's so such a James one kind of shot. It's so exciting. There's moments that I saw of them like it seems like James one. Knows that kind of like the mocked character and he kind of has fun with this and get silly like this big arena bite battle, and the jellyfish are waiting the arena in. There's like an an octopus, banging the battle drums and it's like, it's like what's going on here. So it's kind of bananas and that way. And that we, we also saw some scenes. So we're kind of reminiscent of like kind of like an action adventure tale, like national treasure. I will say this the tone was kind of all over the place. The chemistry between Jason momoa in amber heard was almost non-existent. And you know, I'm still still not sure that this could be great, but I will say that I am much more excited to see this movie after seeing this footage and hearing what he had to save a things. It was actually interesting because he said right before he started making this movie, he was doing a lot of press and. He was saying how he was trying to make a fun movie and everybody off all cynical assholes, ready, but movies were saying that he was just saying that because it was like, you know, counterbalanced you all the, you know, the just the Zach Snyder -ness of the DC Hugh, but it seems to me like, he's actually that bow was his approach. He wanted to make a fun movie. So we'll see what that is when it hits theaters. Later this year, I also over the weekend I went and saw this documentary called always amazing. It is the story of amazing. Jonathan, who is comedy magician? Usually ethic of said this on the past on the podcast. But usually if you are comedy magician, most comedy, magicians are bad. They're either good, magicians, bad comics or good. Comics, bad, magicians, or just bad both meeting. Jonathan is someone I saw as a little kid. He had specials on comedy central. He was hilarious a few years back. He learned that he had only year to live and you know, he's diagnosed with some some pretty bad stuff. He kind of retired. He's outlived the doctor's expectations for him. This documentary though, is in it's made by this comedian named Steve Bryan. He was not a filmmaker in the film, kind of shows us not filmmaker. It's mostly talking heads and vintage video from specials and stuff like that. It's not a lot of regional footage, and I think that kind of is kind of lacking in that way and also the bio instead of being a bio-pic. It kind of focuses on this relationship. Johnny. Than had with his tour manager, which was just this kid that started coming to his his shows. And when he was a teenager, he basically hired him to be as tormentors kind of their relationship with is kind of sweet. This documentary made me laugh. A lot made me cry. I wouldn't say it's great though. You know, I am the target audience for something like this. I love magic, and but this was also shown at this festival called Los Angeles liftoff film festival. And I think they have these liftoff film festivals nationwide and what they are as the attending audiences are given a feedback forms. They fill out after the screening and basically give feedback to the filmmakers. These films are not finished in the filmmakers are able to then take that feedback. Actually, you know, make their film theoretically better. So I, I hope this movie doesn't prove some bad I did. I did laugh, did cry. So I do think it's worth record. Mending. But yeah, it wasn't. You know, it was no. What's Mr. Rogers documentary that came out this year. My kinks. And also I finished season two of the center which had talked about, I think last week or the week before on here and I highly recommend. I know people didn't love season one of the center. So if you just want to skip season one season, two is its own isolated case misery. If you if you like those kind of true crime, kind of things, not that this is based on your case. I highly recommend I, it's just so good. The acting so good the writing, so good Cancun, so good outta. I just highly recommend it. So if you can, it's on USA network. If you have USA network, you probably get out in USA network on demand that is called the center, Chris. What have you been watching? I started watching the Netflix series maniac with Jonah hill and Emma stone, and I haven't finished yet, but I'm really enjoying it. It's very strange. Very well made. I mean, it's kind of like total recall, meets eternal sunshine of the spotless mind if you can picture that. So I don't know. I'm really, you know, I had heard good things about it, but it's actually better than I thought it was going to be. And I'm very, very curious to see where it goes and where things I really little about it is the episodes early different Lancs like unlike other Netflix shows or they're all basically the same length. This show it'll be like one episode like forty, six minutes. One episode will be twenty minutes, and I wish like more functions would realize they could get away with that 'cause they're not traditional TV. They can really do whatever they want. And I liked the show does that instead of just like cramming everything into, you know, a certain number of episodes and other odor a certain amount of time. So that's kind of cool another show. I, I do want to add that I wrote an article about this same thing of the varying time links of episode. TV chosen how I think we're moving in that direction. I will link it in the notes. Cool. And the other thing I watch is another Netflix show. I'm going to have a review of this for the site up tomorrow because that's when the embargo is technically up, but I'm gonna tell you about it anyway today because I'm a rebel. It is net flicks is new. Take on the haunting of hill house, which is directed by Mike Flanagan who Oculus and Gerald's game a bunch of other really cool heart movies, and this is really good. It's almost nothing like the novel by Shirley Jackson, which I think is going to throw some people off because it's a very, very loose adaptation, but it's it's incredible. It's like emotional and creepy, and I, it's, it's not your typical haunted house slash harsh show. So I think this is going to catch people off guard and be a pleasant surprise. A lot of people that start streaming October twelfth. And again, my review will be up on slash dot com tomorrow. And that's the whole. Hunting of hill house bread would have you been watching. I've seen if you think lately since monastic pest is going on right now, there's screeners of certain movies that I've been able to get access to you. And so over the weekend, I took the time to watch one cut of the dead, which the Japanese film that is as army movie, and it unfolds is there's a crew making his ambi- movie, and then zombies actually attack the crew. That is an incredible concept. Well, it's it's actually even more incredible than that, but I honestly cannot get into it without giving away a very cool reveal a very cool spoiler after the first half hour, because what's cool about it is Zambia film in question unfolds in a one single take, which is insanely impressive. It's definitely low budget, so it's not anything. You know what you're saying this, I'll be filmed. They're making takes place in one take or the one that you watched was the one that you want. The zombie film that you watch takes place in one take and it unfolds over the first thirty minutes of this movie. What happens after that? I don't wanna say and because it seeing what happens is extremely interesting because it's lower budget. It's it's not always captivating and it. It's a bit of a challenge to watch the entire thing pulled out, but what's in, but the things that might bug you about that first half hour and why it's so sometimes so generic and that kind of thing pays off in what happens in the hour that follows it. And I know I'm being super vague and, but hopefully it speaking your curiosity, and you go out of your way to see it because what this movie does is extremely interesting, and really, it's it's. Really funny. It's really cool, and it makes you want to go back and rewatch like kind of rewatch that you know, first half hour to see how come into play, but it's it's very funny. It's very, very cool. I, I would almost like to see it remade in the hands of somebody like taika white t t or Christopher guest or something like that because it's more of a comedy it yet. Yes, if that's what it becomes, and that's, that's all I'll say. And the Bill maker dimension might give you some idea as well, but it is. It was very fun to watch an alleged Jacob recommended to me, and it's he had said, this is very much in the spirit of the festival in. It's definitely got some shortcomings and like it took me a while to really get on board with it. But once you know the, the turn comes in and you see what what this movie is actually doing than it, it's it's pretty easy to get caught up in it very. Cool. Did you see any other screenings? I also watched Cam, which is a new bloom house thriller that is in the world of sexy, Cam girls, like the sex workers who you know are on Cameron, do various, you know, sexual activities over the internet. And it's the story about how this one camera who she's trying to get in like the top fifty and become one of the more popular ones. Suddenly there's an impostor pretending to be her online. It looks exactly like her and is doing shows and has basically taking away her life essentially at least online, and she's trying to figure out what's going on. She kind of starts going crazy about it and it's it's entertaining enough. And it's interesting because you're trying to figure out exactly what's going on. But for me, the reasoning behind why and house is happening wasn't quite so satisfying, but I appreciate the commentary and metaph. For provided by this, this kind of thriller about social media and the way we present ourselves online and all that kind of thing. So it's I didn't dislike it, but I feel like it's kind of missing something that would have brought up together as a whole by by still enjoyed it. For the most part in both of these films, I assume don't have a major distributor yet, not as far as I know. I didn't look. I don't think one cut of the debt has a US release date yet and camp since the bloom house movie. I'm sure it has. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure that it has some kind of release coming coming up at some point year. So yeah. And then I also caught or watch two different movies. I'm a one I rented is they both rented. I watched. I feel pretty Amy Schumer comedy, which was fine. I feel like Schumer was kind of restrained since this was a PG thirteen movie and didn't really allow her to be as edgy to make it as funny as it could have been. It's it's definitely has some aspirations of being kind of like devil's where devils product kind of movie. But I feel like the message kind of gifts lost in how the. Premise of the movie is executed because she starts seeing herself as beautiful, and he gives her this whole confidence. But the only reason she's competent is because in her mind, she sees herself as beautiful rather than actually consciously acknowledging that she is beautiful already, and I feel like it just creates some inconsistencies with what the message of the movie is trying to put forth, but it's it's still has a free. Good. You know, moral backbone on it as far as trying to give confidence to two girls who might not be, you know, super proud of who they are and how they look in that kind of thing that I'm an. I'm an n. trailer for that movie killed. Whenever I saw come on in theaters and it was movie. I was actually interested in seeing, but I just heard so many bad things about it that I was like it's far from terrible. Michelle Williams is actually kind of funny because she puts on this this voice and I, it makes you sound like it's a little skier voice and socially. She's kind kinda sounds like this ditsy fashion magazine runner in that kind of thing, but it's, yeah, I, it just feels like it's kind of on the cusp of being better than it could have been better than it was rather. And then I also watched this British coming of age movie from like ten years ago because my girlfriend had seen and she said that she loved and that we should watch. And so it's called Angus thongs and perfect snogging. And apparently it's based on a series of books which I was unfamiliar with, but it is like. Just your, your average coming of age movie was on this teenage girl who's a little bit awkward and trying to figure out, you know, the best way to approach boys. It has a young Aaron Taylor Johnson in it, which was very funny to me because he's a little has a little bit of a higher voice and he looks very young, but it's it's very charming and because it's British usually don't see this kind of edge when it comes to like certain like teenage sexual proclivities in a movie that is about younger teenagers without being like an r. rated comedy or something like that. And this is very much like family friendly, but it definitely digs a little bit into edgier side that American teenage coming of age comedies don't usually dig into in that way, which I thought was kind of interesting. But it was very, very charming. It's it's a Nickelodeon movie. But again, because it's British, it's more edgy, but I, I enjoyed it was it was it was fun to watch. I wish that the American movies had more. Coming of age films like this for teenage girls because there aren't really lot of that. Most of them focused on young boys. You know there. There's been mean girls in recent years, and there's been a few here and there, but I feel like there needs to be more of those for for young teenage girls to see. Okay. What have you been watching this past week? So I have been eagerly following the festival circuit, like all of you readers at slash film and one of the films that has been getting a lot of acclaim at festivals like Cannes is Hirokazu Korea's shoplifters. And so he has been getting a lot of buzzer his news film, and there's also that recent new story of his one of his major collaborators Kirin KiKi who pass away just last week and so I wanted to. I was curious about his works at only had seen one of early films which was nobody knows based off of the real life story of a group of children, siblings who are bended by their mother and are forced to sort of survive in their apartment on their own. And I wanted to see one of his more recent real films that stars Kirin KiKi and I watched after the storm which is visible on Amazon prime, and it's this really lovely. Quiets film about a sort of a private sector who was a former Renault novelist and is kind of interested development. So to speak. He is divorced and struggling with trying to reconcile with his young son while you know dealing with this gambling habit and being unable to really back as an adult, and it's played by Hiroshi Abbaye who is an actress. I really enjoyed actually when I was into Japanese dramas for a while, he was in several dramas. I never seen him play a sort of deadbeat dad. In this sense, it was a really complex and flawed character who you see, you know, has a gambling addiction. He steals money from his. His mom's altered his mom's by Kirin KiKi, but he gives such a nuanced delicate formats and Kirin KiKi does as well as the matriarch of this movie. It's it's very slow burning, not much happens. The storm that takes place kind of this emotional climax where his father and his son kind of ride out the storm and talk for most of it. But it's a really lovely film, and I'm really excited to see what. Heroes Accu here. 'cause you create a has offer with them with shoplifters, which is Kieran Kiki's last film as well. Where did you watch this? Where can people see it? It's on Amazon prime. Cool. Let's move onto what we've been eating yesterday while he went to Disneyland. I mentioned earlier in this podcast I, it was my final day of eating carbs. So starting today, I am a now back on the Kito diet, which I won't talk too long about by did want to say a guest today. I did. I did have some pumpkin cider, which was delicious. Some pumpkin been yeas I, I am basic. I'm going for all the pumpkin and I, I had. Peaking cheddar soup in a bread bowl and a lot of great stuff. I, I think I did my last day of carbs pretty well, because as I said today, I can only consume twenty carbs in a day, which I think is like the equivalent of like a piece of bread, maybe. So I, it's very little. It's high fat, low carbs media protein diet, and I, it's highly lost forty five pounds last year, some hooping to some some of the some of the weight that I gained since that diet off in all key, keeping you updated throughout the water cooler episodes of how that is struggle is going because I know a lot of people have been asking me on Twitter about it, but yeah, so that's what I've been eating. Let's move onto what we've been playing a bread. You've been talking about this drastic world alive game a here. It's been updated. Yeah. So there was. It was a slight updated getting recently because a lot of fans had been asking for some of the flying dinosaurs to be added to the game. There weren't any the game I launch, and that is pointed some players, but they just added a whole roster of them. So there was a whole new group of dinosaurs to go out and catch. And that also includes a couple of new hybrid that they had added. The more other updates recently have included the where called strike events that lie you to like, go and duties, battle against AIDS sors to get, you know incubators to add more DNA to your dinosaurs to be able to evolve them and get new ones and things like that. And they added like tournaments for the battles now. So there's a little bit of competition to it as opposed to just getting stuff for your own dinosaur library. I guess you could say. So, yeah, it's been. It's been cool seeing sorted out in about in catching them, and yes. Much pretty much on that front. I wanna use this opportunity of in our what we've been playing signet to recommend a podcast I listen to on a regular basis. I know. And I have both talked about better call Saul in the past on this podcast. And we, I think we both have said that we like it better than breaking bad a sentiment. The has been also said by gear del Toro over the weekend. So, but a podcast I listen to every week is better, call better call. Saul has an official podcast, which is a pretty good. It's it's not the best produce show. Like, I think the person who hosts it is like one of the editors of the show. So it's kind of like the people who you know, it's usually the the, you know, Vince Gilligan and the other producers in the writers, and maybe one of the cast members gathering a room to talk for, you know, probably like an hour and a half. About that week's episode. So it's kind of like a bunch of friends in a Rome rather than like a hosted. Don't expect like Chris Hardwick after show, which I think is not something I would want to listen to anyways. But this this show is. If you are very interested in the making of movies and TV shows, this gives you kind of very specific stories of how the things come about like last week on better call Saul, the not going to spoil anything, but the opening senior is this montage, which is the split screen montage, and they spent a half an hour on this podcast talking about how the scripted that, like, how do you script, they split screen thing, how they got the rights to the cover song that was used in it to how you shoot, you know, something's on one side or full some mirror what's happening on the other. So how do you story board that how do you film it? You know, they had the director on. They're talking about the challenges of all that and you know, I those just like the first half hour of this podcast. Like you said, it's not the the best produce thing in the world. Sometimes. It kind of like is a little bit. What do you call that when people are part of a thing? And they just keep on saying how everybody's great. Glad nepotism. No, no. Well, anyway, there's a lot of that of like them talking about everybody involved in shows. Great. And I know that there you know, I, it's, it's sincere but a, it's a little much. But if you are a fan of filmmaking in how how things come about I highly recommend and if you're watching that are call, I would recommend the better call Saul podcasts. I listened to it every week, but that brings us to the end of today's slash on Daley link the stuff I talked about in the show notes. So if you want to check out that aquaman men editing bay piece or that piece on net flicks running times, I will have those in the other articles mentioned in the show notes. I should probably ask you, Brad, where can people find more your work on line? You always find me at slash film dot com also on Twitter at Ethan, underscore Anderson and listen to my podcast. Go flicks yourself on itunes in some other pod casting platforms. HD, where can people find more your work on also every day at slash film dot com. And I'm on Twitter at h TRAN Bui, Chris, where can people find more your work on? I'm also at slash on dot com and I'm on Twitter at sea, evangelist of four, thirteen. Have you ever listened to a better call Saul, fat cats, Chris? No, I have not. Okay. I highly recommend you check that. I will check it out. Now this brings us to the end of the podcast you can find slash on daily. This podcast on itunes, Google, play, overcast, Spotify, all the popular podcast apps, please feel free to send us your feedback questions, comments and concerns to Peter at slash on the com- in please go give us a good review and tunes. Tell your friends spread the word. It will see you tomorrow. And of course, I, if Jacob was here, he'd read from his book of of insult jokes. I don't have that book guys. So it's wanna say, you're wonderful and keep on doing what you're doing. I sold for you. Peter. I tried to. They all thinks Peter. Okay. Give it to me Brad. If laughter the best medicine, your face must be hearing the world. I watch a joke. All I did was type insult into Google.

Twitter apple Jacob Saul Chris Disneyland USA editor Brad omen Instagram Hollywood James Amazon Hornets Netflix director Karina Longworth Kieran Kiki California
#69: Bens Grand Eurofying Theory Week of December 23, 2019

The EuroWhat? A Eurovision Podcast

25:09 min | 1 year ago

#69: Bens Grand Eurofying Theory Week of December 23, 2019

"Hello and welcome to the euro episode number sixty nine for the week of December Twenty Third Twenty nineteen. I'm Ben Smith and this time around. It's just GonNa be me Mike. We'll be back next week as we finish up the year with a fun discussion but something. It came out of that discussion that very much. Its own episode. So I've cut this together myself. Okay let's kill the trail first off happy holidays. I am currently off celebrating having pre-tape this a few weeks ago and what that means is that we're not going to have a news desk or discussion of any selections that may have happened between my taping. This and this episode going out live instead. You're just GONNA have to listen to my voice as I talk through ideas. I had about your vision at the end of the decade. The best way to do one of these was just get my Karina Longworth on essentially record an audio essay computer we get the backing music playing much better. I'm a fan of Chris Matthews podcast hip parade for slate. And that show. If you're not familiar your take specific moments in history and kind of dissect them and finds interesting stories within them this time of year. He's got an episode all about UK. Christmas number number ones. That's a particularly great to listen to and one of his most recent episodes looked at the music of the two thousand ten's dissecting I saw the various trends thinking about the decade that was and it also introduced a model for thinking about a decades music. I really liked rather than defining a decade by one sound. For instance thinking the seventies is the decade of Disco. It's more useful to find multiple trends is an inflection point. Help show change over time for my seventies example. That means thinking as much about looking glass's brandy as that sample of where a gainer I played earlier. I thought that might be a helpful mall to look at the past decades worth of Eurovision entries justice evening interesting patterns emerge or how things are changing their. That's Iran take a look at today in attempting to look at Eurovision as a whole all in the last decade. I wanted to set a few parameters given that had a time limit. I wasn't gonNA use all four hundred or so songs released since that felt particularly daunting and not everything made the final there and even cutting it down to just the two hundred and sixty or so did make the finals also felt a little imposing similarly cutting it down to just the ten songs that one over the past decade felt a little limiting. It's hard to connect dots on. There are only ten of them so the compromise I made was taking a look at the top five entries from each year that gave me about fifty songs or so to work with and that felt like a much better place to start looking at patterns and projecting some ideas. Yes before I dive into what I found in that data please indulge one more random tangent about snacks. I promise has relevance to the decades of Eurovision Song about to discuss. I really like snacks. That have a balance of salty. And sweet don't worry this is not about to become a promo for naturebox. We do not have a Promo Code. We are not sponsored by them yet. I like snacks anyways. I tend to think about era vision in the same way goodyear vision songs or at least the ones I think are good and like from year-over-year tend to have a similar sweet and salty balance though it's one between pop music and folk music looking at what did well at the contest. Over the course of this decade if you'll look there's been a rebalancing of salty versus sweet pop dominant in the first half of the decade There was a swing back to more of the folk side of things and now we're starting to see pop comebacks to play. Let's dive into that and let's start right after the two thousand contrast the fairy tale is the perfect place to start talking about Eurovision in the two thousand ten's because it's very emblematic of what winners like in the early part of the decade Alexander. Rybeck song was a then record breaker finishing the contest with three three eighty seven points a total. That wouldn't beat for awhile. It's also a great example of what was winning at the start of the decade. It's mostly a pop song with it just a little bit of a of a folk flourish on top in the fiddle and that runs throughout listening back it kind of feels like the APP version of Norway that seem templates of hop with just a little bit of a flourish on top representative of the nation's folk music heritage tracks a lot of what was racing in the top five. If you look at Turkey's entries from around the same time the desus doomed Tech Tech Beats uh-huh in Mangas. We could be the same. It's that same general template pop song with a little bit of Arabic flair and the backing track also true for what Russia was sending their twenty twelve entry with Russian. Granny's is essentially the club necks of folk song and in this pattern works. Well all the way until two thousand thirteen where emily deforest. Only tear-drops takes the crown for Denmark. That's not to say it's the only thing that's working power ballads. Also have a long history of the contest amorous still doing well. The only Twenty Times Iceland got their highest placement right behind fairy tale with your on is is a truth which it's still a very effective song. I totally your myself with this as I worked on the episode and then another prime example of this for the early twenty tens Denmark's entries from that period Shannon Evergreens in a moment. Like this this is he cheesy Eurovision Duet and they placed fourth not that And again it's a totally or so songs like these. With flourishes of the cultures they come from are doing well but what's ultimately winning. The contest is the their pop backbones. Not The little folk flourishes if you look at. What's winning a week it'd be the same? Lost Lena's satellite the income which is pure pop in two thousand. Twelve marines euphoria set a standard. That's been winning the Eurovision fifty year. After year for good reason it's got that nasal transi bid The performance essentially transformed the arena. It's got a lot going for it even if it has an age as well as some of the other windows satellite and euphoria age relatively well. But one of the downsides to going impure pop is that what sounds fresh in two thousand nine twenty ten or twenty eleven doesn't always hold up by the tiny twenty nineteen if you listen to other songs from the same period Ovarian Leagues playing with fire. Doc or are Nice Kosice both feel more dated from at least a twenty nine thousand nine percent if I wanted to be generous. I'd say that there's a certain maximalist similar quality Certain threw everything at the wall and hope that sticks this that just feels cluttered or muddy. In retrospect one final trend that was running the show in the first part of the decade was the other by Johnny pop machine after joining the contest. In two thousand eight they. They quickly made a run for the crown. The strong songs that felt kind of lab grown in their approach like it felt very much like we have these two artists. And we have this song and it's magic magic working now if you look at what was doing well for by John this time. It's a combination of a lot of what we've been talking about barraged. Is those always. He's plays on standard pop structures with a little bit of folk flourish La Drip drop from twenty ten is power ballad city. And they're twenty eleven entry Ellen Nikki's running scared finally figured out. The the secret sauce did earn them the win breath. If I'm honest. This isn't my favorite author by Johnny Entry and it certainly wasn't my pick for the twenty seven winner but on the other hand I'm often wrong. About what the winner will be and this does feel like a good acknowledgement of solid pop. Craftsmanship work over the past few years other by John String of winters continued into two thousand. Thirteen where yes. Emily deforest one but Friedman mob's hold me to a very close second. It's okay to bring it back to my metaphor about sweet and salty from the top of the show. Pop has been the dominating flavor at Eurovision in the first part of the decade so when you start tipping back towards folk music salt ultimately. I think that change happens at the two thousand fourteen contests and there's an inflection point there but there's definitely something starts tipping the Scales in that direction in twenty eleven Italy returning to the contest. Return to the contact center. Fourteen year. Break in twenty eleven their specific use of the sand Ramo fence civil as their source for entrance seems to have an effect on the quality of the axe. Everyone was sending to the contest in twenty eleven their re debut Rafael Galazi Madness of love shot the second place. A welcome return and they're twenty. Thirteen entry markle manganese lists. NCI place just outside the top five a few years later both these entries have a timeless quality to them that doesn't feel L. specifically connected to the Eurovision contest. The whole as some of the other entries I've played out their entry from Twenty fifteen l.. Volos Guerande Maury also did very well and fits in nicely with a lot of what was starting to take shape there as other are as other countries as looked at what Italy was doing and made their own course corrections about what they were sending. They don't get mistaken. Pop is still leading the charge in twenty fourteen wealth mentally ends up winning that year compete a worse rise like a phoenix. Takes what Italy has been doing. The past few years turns up to eleven and cranks out a loss bond theme that brings home a victory for Austria booking right below it though you have things like Sauna Nielsen's undo an MP threes not not alone giving it run for its money. Both of these were in pre contest discussion as potential winners and all of them are on the pop side of things none of these moments are quite the inflection point in two thousand fourteen that ultimately sends us towards a more folk dominated contest. What does though is a nice tie into the twenty twenty contest since the Dutch entry from that year? The common limits calm after the storm. Calm after the storm feels a a little ahead of its time as a eurovision entry. I remember in twenty fourteen writing how weird it felt to have what I thought of as a primarily American and form of folk or country music reflected back at me by another country. But there's something about the song that still resonates with me five years later I still still have it in my Go-to playlists. This play Eurovision Song. That felt more review ready and reflective of current music trends in the competition seemed to normally go it also has that Nice connection to twenty nineteen since Dunkin more twenty nineteen winner was a protege of Elsa Delong one of the common limits when she was a judge on the voice songs that do well in one year at the contest test tend to influence at least a handful of the hundreds of songs that make national finals and make it to the actual contest. Think about how Cyprus's twenty eighteen entry. LME Ferrara's forego down. You've I got cloned into Cypresses. Twenty one thousand nine hundred Tompkins replay. Only the only way and also had an effect on Switzerland's entry from this year Luca Danni. She got me when she sees. It sometimes. Takes a few years those trans to fully bubble up into winning though and that's definitely true. callouts storms voice. Don't tell the guards to mess I cannon do or it has been done. Let's runs other. I think it's possible argue that while still very pop. Manzella lows heroes takes countrified influence from calm after the storm. Pairing that with a very strong visual performance in the contest to take Sweden to its second win in three years in two thousand fifteen but the effects of Italy's strong selections and calm after the storm idiosyncratic sound to be seen elsewhere in this elections other nations. were making that year. Australia made their official debut with a very pretty strong tonight. Against Belgium turned their selection internal and kicked off a new era of strong selections with look nuts rhythm inside and Latvia's Almond Nada presented love injected which feels like a slightly more pop excited version of what a twigs was doing with all R&B elsewhere on the charts at the same time. Starting in twenty sixteen wins. The contest is now much more folk in artists driven with pop. Still present but more of a secondary concern. Dem Sound of silence in Sergey. Lazarev you're my only one are each strong pop contenders what ends up winning. The contest is Jamal's nineteen forty four and with a combo of vocal prowess strong storytelling and a folk background build on top. The next year Salvador's browse a more payload Jewish picked up the torch and ran with it in a way that I could not succeeding at the time. Oh Sir there's still a spreadsheet spreadsheet somewhere in Europe. HQ where. I've noted that the song is beautiful but seems likely be curbed stumped by the other strong entries that year I was so wrong. It'd be easy to take what was going on in two thousand sixteen in two thousand seventeen eighteen and form an argument that quote unquote real music was winning the battle over quote unquote plastic pop particularly if you're lifting. Salvador brawls press conferences after winning the contest in two thousand seventeen but. I don't think the narrative is that easy. Pop was still doing well but was learning year-over-year from what did well going to more interesting resting places both in its subject matter and its instrumentation. Holy Gino is entry for gold. Gary's retrieve the context in two thousand sixteen if love was a crime. They indirectly speaks to same sex relationships while having some great modern beats behind it and some very entrenched local sampling in the instrumentation and Moldova. We'll do rose to third place in twenty seventeen their highest score ever by blending. Traditional Note Moldovan with modern beats and a striking visual presentation one of the more interesting data points in the second half of the decade has been seeing the previous pop powerhouses of the first half of the decade Azerbaijan in Sweden. See Their dominance. The top part of the scoreboard start to I think after winning twenty eleven and placing second in two thousand thirteen Azerbaijan's previously unbroken record of placing the top five. This decade slipped up replacing twenty second in two thousand fourteen with Delara. COSIMO's start a fire. Then she's not making the final at all in two thousand eighteen with cross my heart and generally placing outside the top ten in the final consistently until two thousand nineteen were Chingiz truth finished in eighth. Sweden's been seeing a similar lack of love or their pop prowess though it's been hard to notice just looking at final scores Robin banks. I can't go on. I can't go. Benjamin grosses dance you off and John Luynedyk's too late for love. Don't have all the top ten of their respective years. There's that's been largely with Jerry. Points splitting the distribution of the vote in the separately announced tallies has made. It's easier to see while juries love what Sweden is doing the home audience against seems to have cooled on their standard pop structures finding other acts more to appealing after heading strongly towards the Folk Oku influence side of things. If you'll pop is starting to be the flavor most audiences once again recent winners toy by Neta. And Duncan Lawrence's says arcade in both you more aligned with this but argue that it's still a more interesting pop especially as you look at what's knitted those entries heels. It leads still leading the way on this. No me about the fat. Tony Anti had a stronger showing I expected it to in two thousand eighteen finishing top five and tackled a tough subject head on and sold from this year toll a similar strike story Eddie. Obviously they beat. You couldn't help clapping along with it. Wouldn't surprise me. If Italy's strong near decades worth of performances finally takes the Trophy and twenty twenty twenty or twenty twenty one all in all like the place. The competition has gone in the last decade. Aw I love some good schlager pop but what's happening right now. Is Nations. Choose their artists whether closer to Dunkin Neta or Atari are things that reflect the wider band of musical ideas that constitute the toothpaste. Hopefully the twenties. We'll keep up the trans or if not at least take us with another interesting. Okay start the show. That's GonNa do it for this episode of the Euro. What thanks for listening this episode the Euro? What was hosted by me Ben Smith and I'm typically joined by my co host? I make become the interstitial backing music that ran throughout this episode was beauty flow by Kevin mccloud and was used the creative Commons license. More on that in the show notes you can find us on our website at your what dot com and on social media at your what. I'd love to hear what trends of the twenty year favorite this decade in Eurovision definitely reach out to us. They're you can subscribe to the Euro. What on Apple podcasts? spotify or wherever you get your podcasts from we'll be back next week to look at the Eurovision entries twenty tens it different angle and put twenty nineteen to bed see there.

Eurovision Italy Sweden Pop Ben Smith emily deforest Denmark Karina Longworth UK Johnny Entry Chris Matthews Mike Turkey Iceland NCI Norway Kevin mccloud Europe
On the cover of a magazine

Monocle 24: The Stack

28:42 min | 2 years ago

On the cover of a magazine

"One of our favorite titles is seeing double double covers that is. And as Indonesia take center stage at this week's London book fair, we find out more about the country's print and publishing industry and will strike oppose for a magazine for all. You for terrific aficionados say cheese, it's time for this week stack. From dory. House in London. This is the stack thirty minutes of print industry analysis with me tell my dad's plenty to come on the show today look at Indonesia's publishing scene and the editor of a respected photography publication shoots into studio one. But before that we will come back to the stack. Lovely penny. Martin editor of the gentlewoman a perennial stack favorite Morcos Ferdinando. Gustav shake paid a visit to the magazine's office in Fitzroy via not too far from Monaco eight q in London to speak to penny. Faye began by asking her about the decision to do to covers for the recently launched issue, featuring the great artist Cindy Sherman on the cover penalty. Always a pleasure. I mean, you're a pro here on the stack we love your magazine and pin have to say, I'm in your office. Finally, 'cause usually you come to us to our studios in Missouri house. It's too lovely one is fairly new. It's hearing fits rove, yet, lovely lovely view and close to post office. That's always very helpful. Publishing. It certainly is. Yeah, we all expanded all the magazines, and it's taken a long time to find combined offices with fantastic man again. So we are here in fits via and fantastic, man. Happy reader gentleman, call, sir. All in one space. These rather lovely high ceilings and large Sasha windows. It's my dream penny with the different every everybody's asking about the Dibble Kover, which is a first for the gentlewoman. And I thought it worked very well. Especially with city Sherman in the Kover will tell us with more. Did you think a lot about you know, show we have work over? Well, the question of having one will only really came up. Once the images came in. It wasn't something that we planned our asked for with innocent Vanu d- as photographers is often the case that there are several options for cover because they provide such a complete portfolio of images, but I'm with. Cindy sherman. The focus of the profile was so much about her becoming a sense of transformation of her because usually she works with. Nobody doesn't have an assistant. She works with somebody for wigs. And that's all so nobody ever sees her getting transformed, but the fact that she was being photographed by innocent Manute instead of herself for once meant the actually she was being observed and not gave us an opportunity to choose images that reflected that so there's the idea of what the gentlewoman always wants. Which is the kind of what the she really look like what she really like. Which is always what you ask to you. Somebody's interviewed somebody and we could show, of course, supposedly the real Cindy. But then there this idea of one of the characters too. So we hope that we've done it meaningfully rather than cynically not just opportunity to get people to buy two issues penny less weeks on the stack. We did a special launch issues the first issues we spoke to our creative director spoke to editors of new titles and beyond. I have the ho- collection of gentlewoman. What would the main changes from the very first issue which actually have quite a big poster here new office of the face? Well, I've said before that think we started out pretty serious because we felt it was a serious matter in launching a women's magazine in two thousand and nine the offering on the new stunned was so visual in so sexualize that we felt it was important to provide an alternative to that. But I think you don't want a magazine to be a bit of a lesson. So going forward, I think it became a bit more sensual and more colorful. I think that's one of the things that people have observed about this issue again, it's more colorful yet. I'm perhaps a bit lighter. I think you can make jokes once you've set out your stall. But to begin with a think we went in with sort of pretty we would say dry, but pretty serious offer. And I think we're maybe a bit less serious. We've got maybe more shorter content. Now, new formats have come and gone. There's a new one with this issue called tagging along. Which is essentially the thing that you ask when you're trying to wrangle an interview about can we do activity, which means please don't give us a profile with your subject in fifteen minutes in hotel lobby. We wanna do something that kind of gives you a bit more texture in the peace. So these have been specifically about events. So for instance of interviewed the podcasters Karina Longworth about her podcast. You must remember this. But the writer has gone to see witness recording of one. So it's kind of writing about recording sound, which seems to be abstruse, I grant or, you know, clear tack who baked the Royal wedding cake. She's recently had to expand her bakery because of the number of orders that have come in. And as a result of the Royal endorsement, so she went out looking for marble work top. So they're rather willfully obscure little subjects, but maybe a bit of a journalistic piece about journalism itself. So you know, we maybe having a bit more fun than playing around. But I think. That kind of core mission remains the same even at issue. Number nineteen you mentioned tagging along I have to mention when we favorite was quite cheeky that into polish Abbasi, which you you actually went for a run before. And then you discuss Stingray is it was it was quite a judge. I'm glad you think. So since I did that one. Yeah. Know what to do an interview as a run for a long time because as a runner myself, though, not very good one. I knew that the kind of conversation that you have slide on with somebody is really different from the one that you have when you're facing limb. And I know that people divulge a lot more information with looking you in the eye. So I knew I would get particularly good interview of pollen. Also, she's been dealing of running herself. So it was a little bit about the transformation in her life and her business as a result of her becoming more. I guess physically active. There's a lot of biography in there. So yes, her stingrays in the tanks when she was working at Kilgore by coming today comes up in conversation. But I think it's more. Yeah. As about. Launch her new brand drew base. But I think that's kind of true of the way that we commissioned pieces generally that yes, we'll get to the point about your new project that you're selling. But let's try and find a different entry point than the kind of classic. You know, selling something interview because nobody wants to read another one of those, Shirley, what deficiency sense of the gentleman. Do this have changed a lot because I agree with you. I I didn't notice that the longer gentleman has been going on it's becoming you know. I love the fashion shoots in the last issue. There's something about the Turk. I thought it was such an interesting one, you know, and and usual. The talks of of prosaic styling strategy. I guess so that guests the humor is in. How kind of banal alternately that idea is? But yeah, we've got a leather story in this one, and you might not find that before. And if you picked up an early issue, our magazine, there was a lot of still life and a lot of black and white Petach fee, which is still part of our language, but it's true that I think that sort of more different kinds of women in different kinds of ideas are welcome. I think it's a little bit like having set up a secret society, and then letting more people in I think, that's the kind of way I would think about the constellation of women that we feature and the way that we try and represent closed, but Russian itself has changed. If you think when we launched in two thousand nine it was up -solutely the of the day where centered designers the shirt vivere and Phoebe follow in HANA mcgibbon lose kind of British designers that were anti fantasy wardrobe centered clothing, and I think you wouldn't necessarily say that now. Oh, although clearly wardrobe still an important part of what we do. But you know, this lots of other different ideas that are happening as a result of fush and having to diverse find a think we'd be pretty boring magazine, if we just stuck with what we did in two thousand nine we have to change every time to salute you mentioned a secret society. I was the gentlewoman club going on. You know, is brilliant fun doing my never hide the fact that I stole it terribly from Monaco, and Tyler and his brilliant way of involving the readers in activties, and that in turn has fed into what we do because meeting the reader so frequently getting a sense of what they do. They don't like and who they are. And defying all our notions of what age they were more the came from, you know, they're much younger much older than we realized. And there are many of them. There's just shy forty thousand internationally means that if we want to do event like we did a life drawing class with Giorgio Armani in the summer or mover often Florence in November at the cheek. Arden they come and they come in their droves on they dress up, and they have a right laugh, and they're brilliantly sociable on really representatives. Well, so unlike other magazines that you know, I used to speak to other editors on the front row in the be saying a terrible when you meet your readers, isn't it? I would be thinking internally good. No, you know, the people that come are directors of museums, and their brilliant students and their fabulous dancers on the funny suggestions for the magazine, and you know, that I'm immensely proud up because wherever we go we can bring a community of readers, the aren't really defined by kind of luxury lifestyle demographic this commercial. They're not kind of marketing idea the bunch of people with something to contribute. So I think there are greatest asset and away. And if you works perfectly for your magazine because honestly, you know, work with the stack speak too, many additives. But when I mentioned to my colleagues evening the office or somewhere else about the gentlemen, people are like, oh my God. Live at so much. They have such a deep connection. You don't see that with ever magazine. Well, I haven't worked in another print magazine. So I can't necessarily agree with you. Although I get not Sen., but I did work for an extremely well respected website who which had must've readers all over the world. But there's something about print, especially a very attitude hoping to be high quality periodical that feels like represents a moment in time is just the opposite of e comm and online news. I am not sort of sense of compass bonding to have a bit of time to think about an idea and just enjoy yourself isn't amazing about should seem so precious, and so rare, and I don't mean mind the magazine being precious and rare as long as it's for everybody and penny. Finally, I'm obsessed with the caller of the covert is almost as much as who you choose to behind the front page. How's the process? I mean, do you work? View created directive Veronica detain about. Using the caller or do you wake up and say, you know, what I'm feeling orange? It's going to be. Diana real. And no, I mean that is something that we've got brilliant designers and creative directors here. It's almost the final point in the process where all the park relations kind of ideas, get still down into new Shen. Yeah. You see a few printouts lying around through the production process, which goes on for about a month where you're starting to notice a pilot, and sometimes you can be completely surprised. This you come in on the penultimate day in its changed from green to red or whatever. But I think it was a fairly warm color all the way along and see yellow getting introduced, and it's not that we sit down and say, okay, I think is yellow, but you you get a, you know, a, HUD. I disagreed with that we would have the compensation, but then it became that. Kind of electrified orange. The printers were Broncos having that that tone specially mixed and yes, worked really well for God jumps off the new stunned that was penny. Martin from the gentleman talking to Nando earlier issue, nineteen of the magazine. Is out now in all its double covered glory. Next to Indonesia, the fascinating country of more than seventeen thousand islands will be the main focus of this year's London book fair which starts next Tuesday. The twelfth of March to celebrate we welcome to our stack studios to people responsible for the Indonesia program at the fair this year, Laura prince, Liu who's leading the project, and John McGlynn an American author who's been translating and promoting Indonesian literature for more than thirty years Fernando. Welcome them, both to Australia is well, my role is to organize everything. So if it's a success the government will take the credit, it's a failure. Then. Yes, I am responsible for that. Enjoy your sue quite involved in that. And and you've been living Jakarta for quite a while is I'm a member of the national organizing committee, I'm in charge of programming for the cultural and professional programs. But yeah, I've been in Indonesia forty three years, and I to be honest. I mean, we'd perhaps your new key people don't know much about. The publishing senior Indonesia, the type of authors that people enjoy their so in a way, for example, is that also did your job to promote that more to make those authors more kind of common on British bookshops or not not only British, but you know, other countries as well well John's being in Indonesia longer than I have when I came to the country nine years ago. I time I joined in into the publishing business, and I joined the publishers association, and I saw things are quite sad. You know, because I see a lot of good content, but they are not recognized in the global world. If you look at south East Asia, Indonesia is actually the leading country for great of content, not just publishing industry in general. So when into dozen fifteen the government decided to sign the Emily you with the Franklin book fair, I thought it was a bold move. And the right move, actually. Because this Olot of good content and people just don't know about it. If I can join in. I see the Frankfurt book fair in two thousand fifteen as a sea change in the Indonesian publishing seen. It was very important. But London book fair is just as important because of the the role that English language plays in the publishing world today. And if I may ask coming when you in Indonesia, have are Indonesians big readers is it a marketing expansion there because we see some countries that it all depends. But I'm very curious about Indonesia's a huge potential market. I think I mean, the reading is low by world standards, but with improved education, I think things of improved recently fiction is high on the on the sales list now. Yes. But the hasn't really been a thorough research on reading habit. You see how do you measure it? And if people are not reading, what's. Reason behind that. Because Indonesia is considered of seventeen thousand five hundred something islands, and you know, with the islands come infrastructure problems. You know, sending things across islands become a big problem, and it's an expensive tasks as well. So in the remote places where it takes what eight hours by boat, and you don't have proper transportation mode books. Don't get delivered to those areas. But there's a lot of literary activities where the community is sending three books because apparently they are in desperate need of reading materials. They don't have any other sort of entertainment a lot of these places don't have electricity, even no TV, no radio. And they books are always a good source of entertainment. Can we expect fair? Will there be some? Local authors coming in, you know, give us a little taste to what we hope to surprise number one. I mean because so little is known about Indonesia in the UK and in Europe in general, we want there to be a surprise factor. And I think we have that we have more than one hundred events going on in London and around London this week with twelve main authors, but then a huge number of others who are coming in. Plus, we're doing programs in various other creative sectors, culinary fashion board games multiplatform, and so on and so forth all around, and which type of stories, you know, are popular Indonesia, which type of stories the authors. Roy Tim sure there were several topics, but is this is their big trend, for example, big fan of thrillers or kind of more perhaps known fiction or something like that. Well, when we look at the sales for fiction, what pad content is. Always solving very good romantic novels thrillers. Yes. Crime related stories favorite Indonesian author. But perhaps you could tip to our listeners to both of you. Okay. For me, maybe echoed now on a like his way of telling stories of dealers thought he's also a good one for me given that I'm head of program, and I would decline dance. I would choose the dead author. Like pro moody on that too. Personal taste Joan. Of course, this is the stack talk a lot of magazines newspapers just out of curiosity. No. Because that's also the publishing scene. What about magazines are the big or people's to read, you know, the daily broadsheets as well how you see that the newspaper and magazine business of change a lot now people are moving towards digital news, especially becomes almost free. So in terms of number of prints, they've declined by a lot number of newspaper. Mrs also have closed down. However, the online news have gone up gone down nearly as drastically as in the west. There's a huge number of magazines available and the one one of the good things about in magazines, the media in general is that all of them do literature, all the magazines all the main newspapers have short stories poetry in them. And you John you're based than do you also work for American publications as well with some stories about Indonesia, even Indonesia literature. I've worked with a lot of organizations around the world words without borders here in in the UK stand magazine were Asia literary review, I've been guest editors for a lot of lot of those publications, but my work has always been in Asia that was lower prince Lou and Joe McGlynn and the London book fair twenty nineteen opens on Tuesday the twelfth. Next. We put the world photography in focus and speak with the editor of one of the most respected titles out there source in their latest rebound issue. Richard west dedicates, the quarterly to the topic of privacy Monaco's Nando Gustavo, Pacheco tracked Richard down what we've just been through a process of redesigning it. So we've had the chance to sit down and think what is what it's all about. Why we do it and the photography wealth for us. It's two things. It's both the people who are they think about dog reveal the time, it's photographers, it's academe IX. But it's also the wide world of everybody uses potobrati, which is just about everybody. And I think the magazine has these two identities that we're interested in the stuff that's really in the photography community. But it's also a reason to think about everything else. So our new tagline thinking through Tacori sort of says that where magazine that has the latest. Geography in it. But it's also about the way people use this month phones, all advertising campaigns, all different genres that are specific to photography. But our show is the world. Well, and and agree, for example. You know, I'm not a photographer myself. But when I was reading the magazine something that could apply to lie. For example. There's lots of discussion about, you know, the privacy law, and how does with the fact the life for talker. I I think this must be such a massive issue for people that work in this world in a way. Right. Yes. So yes, the the theme of this issue is privacy. And we think about how we could configure that because it's obviously affects people different ways. So it Oviously affects to journalists and the photojournalist that the the place where people always say privacy is most carefully pleased is in France. So we thought well, how do we address this? I wonder how it affects pitch editor in fronts. So we also need to go and interview French pitcher of lobes of French news magazine on his completely fast. Beijing what she says the things that she takes granted about for example. If there's a demonstration and she gets a photograph bitch desk and their children in it or people that might be children. You know, they might be seventeen years old. No that she knows from just looking at a picture they have to worry about whether they pick the late them or whether they black them out or that kind of thing. And you the implications of the change in people's attitudes of privacy. I think I've pretty pretty extensive. How is it in France? You mentioned there's a lovely story here and in the latest source. How is it in the UK is it is not as strict, right? Well, that's we only have a few minutes talk about this. But it's the solution of the law has been one that Britain is always had a very separate privacy law that has been more lazy fair, you might say. But now with as greater alignment with a you law. So we have the same European Convention rights of privacy that they do in France. But the way. That bridge. Laura's Bill tapas is interpreted in a slightly different way. So you can still photograph people on the tube in the way that you wouldn't do on the metro or you'd be you'd be more like to get in trouble. If you did on the metro, but whether or not if case about that went to the European Court of human rights, you know, what the ruining be above my pay grade to to say that. So don't take anything. No such a fascinating topic. But let's go through kind of the redesign of the magazine you brought some old copies of source with different formats. I mean, they all look very beautiful, but I have to say the new one it looks quite newsy as you say, I think reflects the tagline thinking through photography. Can you tell us the idea why did you decide to change for something? That was clearly more kind of picture bays. May I say something that looks more kind of almost like a weekly news photographers in a way. Yes. I think we wanted to foreground the fact that the magazine is always about thinking through the photographs that were talking about so on the cover you've got a selection of the pitches from the portfolios in the magazine. But you also have the tag lines the major stories in the magazine and also the review content the reviews section takes about it. The third third of the magazine and the reviews might be, you know, the latest blog bugs expert exhibition like the domico Ellen show. That's on at the moment. Or they might be, you know, we've just reviewed to comic books, which are comics that tell the story of the life of autocracies, all we might reviews. Some you know, we did a big review of annual reports and talk about that. So to tell the person in in the bookshop, that's this is the kind of stuff that you're gonna get that kind of mix is is not just having a pitcher doesn't doesn't communicate that really and Richard. You have a special year head of in December. You guys will publish your hundred each issue that it's amazing. So you've been publishing since ninety two were involved since the beginning of the magazine. No, no, I came along in about ninety seven I have a co editor who was there from maybe ninety four ninety five so and there a couple of other people who've been ever caught on time as well. So I've been as through to changes of the magazine from that at each stage. It's kind of grown in its scope. How much of the world we can get access to oversee the world has changed in that time as well. So we've had two we've had to make take advantage of that we can get access to mow material, we can have a sort of more global view. It's much easier to get things, and it's much easier to deal and exchanging pictures than it was in in nineteen ninety seven which have a question recently did here on the stack show about the first issues like, you know, new magazines coming in. So I ask you, you know, your magazine is, you know, it's going to be a hundred issue. This year was the secret of survival in this kind of sometimes difficult publishing world, or you know, but you have you have a good magazine. So perhaps you don't need to worry too much. Yes. I it's a good question. I think that one of the things we realize as we were chewing over, you know, we had this process, which is the same process. We went through two thousand five that we sat down we got piles of all the magazines. We like everybody along stuff they like, and we discussed we discussed the movie said I like this about this magazine. And why do you like it and? We realize that it's things like the lender view of books the things like sight and sound magazine these things I'm interested in you know, where you sit down, and you read it and attempting to read it through Twitter or attempting to read it, and it was online wash and just doesn't do it. You you're gonna sit down and you really going to immerse yourself in it. And I think that for people who are really interested in Viagra vay having a magazine where you sit down, and you have really good quality reproduction, you have long essays. You have lots of different contributors, not just one person on their blog or one person's Twitter feed or one person's Facebook, both you have a whole gamut of different people all have their own specialization is still something people want. If you want to to know what's going on in contemporary, talk of a huge kind of immerse yourself in it. And that's something magazine can do when you're seeing source. So you the kind of based in both London and Belfast as well. Yeah. Well, it was that always the case or no, it's it's not really based in Belfast in London. I'm based in London. But the the offices in Belfast and. The kind of traditions of the magazine in Belfast, which is I think another thing that's gives the magazine a certain character because where you very wear from Belfast. How what perspective London has what perspective Glasgow has what perspective covered has and Belleville has its perspective. You know, it looks to Dublin and it looks to London looks to other international cities. So I think there's maybe a sort of a feeling that's what on an editor is just as important as what happens in in London and way, we will review the show in Dundee as likely as we review the show in the watch apple calorie that was Richard west from sauce as she ninety six. The privacy issue is out now. And that's it for this week's addition of the stack thanks to produce. FEMA Nando goes type shake, oh, an editor. Cassie Galvin comments aquarians suggestions are welcome drop a note to Fernando you can find him on f p Monaco dot com. And don't forget to join us at the same time next week before we go a little, photography, inspired. So the divine Amanda Lear with I am a photograph. This is on tomatoes. Thanks for listening. Rita. Overweight?

Indonesia London editor Cindy sherman John McGlynn Richard west France government Martin Monaco Belfast Dibble Kover UK Kover rove Missouri house Karina Longworth Faye Fernando Sasha
The New Drugstore Products Were Loving Right Now (Mascara, Skincare & More  All $35 or Less!)

Breaking Beauty Podcast

45:24 min | 1 year ago

The New Drugstore Products Were Loving Right Now (Mascara, Skincare & More All $35 or Less!)

"The following podcast is a deer media. Production guys welcome to breaking beauty. The podcast all of the best selling beauty products and the damn good stories behind them. For your host Carleen Higgins and Jill done. Hey everyone welcome back to breaking beauty. PODCAST I'm your co host Jill done and I'm Carlene Hagan and so hopefully by now you guys know that our weekly podcast were all about the breakthrough products people an moments in beauty and given that word to beauty editors since day one. We've always wanted to deliver the damn goods on. What's really worth your money? So we really aim to separate the greats from the gimmicks here and in today's damn good segment. It's all about our top drugstore fines in twenty twenty so far the year is young but we already have our eye on some favorites Ritz. Yeah and even a couple of fails. We're going to tell you about today's some stuff. We had high hopes for that. Maybe didn't really pan out before we get into all of that. We want to just want to get caught up on some of the news of the day. The News of twenty twenty so far and curling. What's been happening? Have you been catching up. Rallying the headline is just like January. It's like what have you you been doing to entertain yourself. Well you know what you and I were talking about this morning. It's been kind of a funky January as in like people are in a funk and for good reason there's just so much going on in the world so I do think that in a lot of cases beauty is somewhere where it can kind of like lift us up and distract us from some stuff yep and Atas practically save us from the world. I would be lying if I wasn't on Amazon all night last night. Looking for face masks for my upcoming flight if you guys have a recommendation of a good good inflate mask in flight face masks to cover like Corona Virus Corona virus styles story. I thought you meant like a jelly mask girl. I got you No like I felt like Soco Glam Charlotte show. She hasn't seen one from Korea but she like and everyone's like where'd you get. Where'd you get? Where'd you get it? And then that sort of inspired me because I am going going to do some travel in the company and I was like I want that for my face but does it really. I heard it doesn't protect you from the virus or I a virus arres unless it has like the hip filter. One she has has that so i. That's what I was looking. Up At my feet from Mac Like Mountain Equipment Co op. Obviously but if you guys have one that you know when you trust a new Lavin easily find let me know yeah drop us. A line in her facebook chat room or in our Dr Alicea Very Doomsday Search. Yeah I'm like what face powder do I wanNA bite. I'm like how to protect myself from Corona virus but anyways yes this is twenty twenty okay well and if they come in packs of two I will you'll want one loudly your Your backup I'll take the backup so yeah I know I have. I've been listening to some podcast. I've been going deep down the true crime wormhole but you know I need a break. Sometimes because again it just it can get depressing depressing. Yeah right so this morning I checked out one. I believe you mentioned this one to me. Originally it's from the host of you must remember number this very popular podcast Karina Longworth and she recently launched an eight part companion series called. Make me over. Yeah and it's about the relationship between Hollywood and the beauty industry and you know it's the kind of thing that you just know how much time in research went into these stories and it really is storytelling. The she's commissioned or the network has commission different writers to go deep on all of these different topics and then the the writer narrates the story themselves So the one that I listened to was the kickoff episode about the actress Molly O'Day who underwent the first weight loss surgery surgery like way back in the nineteen twenties. And just what that entailed so as you can imagine it was like I was watching as I was driving on the highway this morning. A little little bit by. I'm picturing a lot of drainage tube. Yeah Oh yeah. Yeah so am but it's really think about what you and I have talked about about just our our love of beauty as a topic and how it can be a lens to so much more. Oh totally and really. So you're getting this you know. It's the intersection of Hollywood and beauty. And just how we see ourselves and our body and so it's like psychology and sociology. And all of that so I was taken and and I'll be interested to listen to the rest of them. Yes she does. Such an incredible job series. And I think it'll be like a viral hit. Yeah sure there is another sort of Interesting podcast Oh right now. I haven't listened to it myself but the subject of the series is Dr Frederick Brandt. He's the late Dr Frederick Brandt right and he was known the Baron of Botox. I mean in New York circles. Everyone went to him. Madonna went to him Linda Wells. whose the editor in chief velour? She openly talked about jam. I've met many many times. I'm sure you did as well. I don't know that I did actually. Yeah he also has Dr Brandt skincare. which is still around so he had a very tragic ending to his wife? Life Ray and this series sort of explores his life and what led him down the path to end his own life and so also a very heavy topic but they think it's just interesting that you're seeing kind of what you were just saying like all of these figures and the stories that they aren't just snippets on instagram stories. You can go so deep and there's so many facets to it I wanNA listen to that one yeah for sure So you guys know that were obsessed with reading the reviews that you guys leave for our show. It really helps us so much. I know he sounds like a bit of a broken record talking about reviews but frankly it helps other people. Discover our show. And that's how podcast grow is word of mouth so I just wanted it to reach you curling this one. Okay this one. So this is from at Glow Grove and thrive and she left a review on Apple podcasts. That's the best place to do it. So she says says by far the best podcast there for all of us beauty and skin care lovers. I honestly was never able to get into podcasts. No matter how hard I tried until Jilin Carleen came into my life and only have I listen to every single episode by. They have listened to multiple episodes multiple times. How I've stepped up my knowledge around a better skin care and overall auty routine and I always enjoy the loss from these two while doing so it really feels like I'm sitting around and having a glass of wine with some brilliant girlfriends even some of my friends joke okay? I'm sending Jilin Carleen a holiday card this year. I won't say I haven't thought about it just so they can see this amazing skin. They've helped me achieve through their education. Jalen Carleen thank you for everything you put into the podcast. You're chemistry is a team is phenomenal in your interviews or educational interesting and so inspiring. You're a hell of a team and I'm a Hell L. of Fan. Thank you for that. So sweet and is a card anytime yet. Resilient picture yeah things. Yeah and we'll we'll send you a pop socket. Yeah about that we We did just do that. Big giveaway for our hundredth episode for our pop sockets and those are in the mail. You guys you should receive them any day now and if you do please take a Selfie with it because we wanna see you wanna see what you look like and where you listen to your podcast and yeah and yeah take your nails. Look like when you're holding your pop socket can yeah so if you can please do leave us a review or otherwise get social with us and let us know you think of each and every episode you can leave us a voicemail as well ask any questions at eight four four two seven zero three zero two or drops a dam on instagram or breaking beat. PODCAST or join our private facebook Rupel rupaul. Link to all of these things in our show notes today and every single product we mentioned today. It's on our blog. It's always on our blog at breaking beauty podcast dot com and you'll the blog dropped down right there. We always sort of like hit you up with all of the products that we discuss. Yeah with links to buy. We're not really set up on our affiliate so we don't make money from those. Yes we probably should be but were not so. Yeah it's all like ready to go there And so do you guys want to hear about the products. We've been testing and what we've been loving so far. These are all cheap and cheerful. Drugstore buys all right. Let's get into it and now we want to take a brief break to tell you about a new show partner. Were really excited about the brand is called Noemi it's a luxury jewellery label that you can find only online. It's kind of like a best cap secret actually Joe. I was out of fashion event. This past last week it was a dinner with a bunch of other editors and I happen to be sitting beside a fashion stylist and as we're talking she clocked my new ring and ask where I got it. Because she's looking for this kind of thin really delicate ring. You know that you can stack or where Solo. Yeah we actually ordered the same ring twinsies. It's called the petite sheet diamond band minds. Eighteen karat white gold. Did you get that. I got the yellow goal right and just over a millimeter in with and it's got these fine pathway diamonds on it and I'm really minimalist when it comes to jewelry and even I love how simple this lungs. But just like that hint of sparkle. If you guys want to see it we actually made a video over on our instagram on our. ID TV so we did the whole on boxing and you guys can see what the rings look like. I literally have not taken this off since we got it goes with everything thing. I've been loving it so the thing that's special about Noemi is that you're GonNa get this amazing quality jewelry it's conflict free. Diamonds has a designer designer. Look and feel essentially. It's half the price because they're not in retail stores and they make everything themselves so there's no markup Noemi is a safe space to buy luxury St Jewelry Online. You want to know that what you're buying is authentic zone they have what's called an IGA certificate and that details color clarity and the appraisal raizal value. And whether you're buying for yourself or as a gift you can return any order for a full refund even if it's been engraved or if it's a custom design so there's literally early no risk and even shipping in the. US's completely free yes so if you're looking for quality fine jewelry that's made to last a lifetime from a luxury brand you can trust. It's it's Noemi. They have thousands of five star reviews online. We suggest you read some and see why people are raving about this company so head on over to Hello Noemi DOT dot com slash breaking beauty to see their collections. And get fifty dollars off your first purchase with Promo Code Breaking beauty that's H. E. L. L. O. N. O. E. M. I. E. dot com slash breaking beauty willing to that offer in our show notes. And don't forget to use the Promo code breaking beauty for fifty dollars off I purchase and now back. Today's episode are a Gel. So where do we WANNA star. Would've been trying and loving okay. So real talk. Today is Monday. I head Ed one of the most exhausting weekends of my life and I don't really complain about being tired very often what happened. Basically there was water damage Water damage in my apartment and he came in my ceiling. I came home from a night out at a concert and I came home and the plaster had LegCo. There was water dripping down all onto my my bad. Oh no just a real disaster moment so for the time being until it gets fixed. I literally have my mattress on my living room floor floor at the moment university style like I felt like I was at a sleepover last night but there was no friends there and there are no good snacks. Either so I just like sorta tossed and turned I have now been sleeping also looked so bad this morning. I was like everyone has been there like the Monday morning. You wake up and you're just like Oh there's no helping today. Yeah so I had just gotten these pixie beauty brightening eye patches and I thought what the Hell I had put them in my skin care fridge that I just got And so that was great because then they were chilled. So these are called the beautify brightening eyepatches there twenty four. US dollars thirty four Canadian they just launched. And there are thirty pairs in here. And so it's like a tub that you have in you sort of unscrew the top An inside are these. These pairs of Hydra gels just look like third drenched. Yep In product in serum and so. They're the Hydrogel ones which are like slippery little suckers. Yeah I uh-huh Alley. Yeah well I've tried them but this is the third iteration right. This is At least the second the they have different one. I believe it's the third so I just asked I. I double check that this is just launched in the states too and so this one is meant to just sort of like brighten. Your whole under area has vitamin C has liquorice and I was like you know what I'll try anything. That's yeah I know And you know what I really want to give a special shout out. I love when brands think of details. Because these are slippery to Kinda get on and so they have a really genius little spatula. That actually has a place for your thumb. Okay on the spatulas he can easily scoop out. The hydrogel is and get them underneath your eye. Okay sometimes with the SPATULAS. They're like yeah. It does doesn't help. No sometimes it like folds them over and rice stuck together Ernest a disaster. Yeah Yeah and so tell me about some of the key ingredients. What is you versus the other ones? So this has liquorice and vitamin C.. which are both meant to be bright? Rang out and so they are drenched in serum. So I just put them on underneath my eye and you leave them on for about ten minutes and then afterwards you just like massage judge the serum in underneath your so. I felt immediately afterwards at my eyes. Look less hollow and also. I'm just realizing right now. So that I didn't put conceal her on okay afterwards so I went from like feeling very haggard to not have to conceal her today. That's a win right so are are these like a long lasting paying are my going to be gone forever. No right but they made me feel good and I do think that the price point is amazing. What you get a lot of times is these types of products are luxury only? And they're like three times the cost so I think it is a nice perk to have especially if they're cold around the all you got that deep huffing and get that brightening yeah and everybody needs a lift like that now. I know that the previous versions basil out on a regular basis. Yes right Um So I'm sure that anyone's who's really into vitamin C.. Right now is as I don't want to give this a whirl. Yes so what have you been trying. We'll skin care wise so oh I wanted to talk about a new range from a brand that I don't talk about a lot and that is Garnier. Garnier is launching a new line. It's called bio bio in English. But in French she would say B. O.. Had Spe- I oh and it's a ten piece range. That is all EKO cert certified fide and Vegan. So that's really a big step for Garnier. I feel because they may have played in like the plant based and natural space. But they're one one of those kind of inbetween brands that it's like you don't know exactly where they said right well exactly so I feel like with this range. They're putting a a stake in the ground when it comes to organic yes and this line. I actually experienced this line for the first time in twenty eighteen I went to Paris for the worldwide launch of this line and so this has been available in Europe for a while right including the UK yeah so the US yet. I don't pink yet no it's not in the US. And I don't know when it's coming so this is one of those products are ranges. That maybe WANNA scoop up on your next visit to Oh Canada or the UK or Paris because it is really affordable so. I'm just going to pick one product. I did try the entire range the product that I personally personally liked. It's called the Garnier. -Bio Bio nourishing moisturizer. It's twenty four nine thousand nine Canadian. And it's got organic aloe Vera Hyler Kylo onic acid and then so it's all about hydration at said to give forty eight hours of hydration it's got some antioxidants in it and it's soothing. Enhance the Aloe Vera and I guess the thing with me why I haven't been the number one fan of Garnier. Skin care is the fact that I do find. It is generally quite scented and that does irritate my sensitive skin Even if it would say for sensitive skin I would I would still be bothered by it. Here's the box. If you WANNA have a look at the ingredients and years the product if you WanNa try it on your hand or whatnot and so this one I do find has verily ascent at all they do have a balancing moisturizer. That's for normal combination skin. It has a lovely texture. It's a little bit more. scented that one one so they've kind of seemed to have like peel back on the one for sensitive skin but it just has a really beautiful texture that I really like. It's not greasy not at all you know typically when you see any type of product that says right on it like this one. It's for sensitive dry skin right. You're just getting hit with like this greasy type of attacks. Her and I don't like that at all. So I think this one is really beautiful and also The one word Normal two combinations can. We've talked about this before in kind of the natural space. You don't often find Nice moisturizer. That's for oily skin. And this one has a you can if you want to test that one. The Tiger on that is really lovely as well and there's also a really big focus on recycled packaging for Garnier in this. You know where they're going. Yeah the Sustainability Element I remember. Yeah that was huge exactly so this is a really big direction. I think for the brands a whole they say that with their hero ingredients audience that are organically produced. It's with respect to bio-diversity which I think is a concern. When you're talking about ingredients like Argon yeah that could would be an issue with over harvesting? And also they're saying that it's all fair trade so when they work with The producers they are paid a fair wage. Yeah so together right. Yeah absolutely and I think that this is what's really significant about this range to me is. It's almost duping and niche indie brands. Yeah in terms of what you might see what you might get. But it's not a mass level MHM and you have to remember. That's really powerful. Yeah just the numbers of people who are shopping and drugstores. So I think it's really positive that the parent parent brand being L'OREAL says they are Investing and heading in this direction is you should check that out and I think it's exciting to see Gurney really making these moves happen. Yeah absolutely and it's just it's lovely to us like I honestly really like the texture. Yup I did find it soothing because I have sensitive skin I didn't have any redness sadness after Iran continue to use it. Yeah fantastic so I do want to talk about a skin care product that I tried that I had really high hopes for but maybe I didn't love quite so much and be curious to see what your take is because I know that we just got this at the eleventh hour and you didn't get a chance to try again yet okay. So we're talking about indeed labs watermelon melting elting bomb hydrating cleansing bomb. It's twenty four ninety nine Canadian. It's around twenty two twenty two. US It would have just launched by the time you guys listen to listen in the last week right. So it's the first cleanser from indeed labs which is kind of exciting anther ten years in the making this year the brand. Yeah and it's a Canadian brand so we talked about this line briefly last year by it actually wasn't in the US at that time. ULTA beauty picked up indeed labs this end-july so now you have access to every product that they have so obviously just going by the name. Watermelon is a key ingredient. They use watermelon seed oil and it also has hempseed oil. It's color and fragrance free. So it's really designed to remove dirt and make up while nourishing the skin and a really gentle manner. So it's supposed to be safe for sensitive skin but also safer acne prone skin it also contains an ingredient called visible well all that as soothing ingredients that often comes from Cammo Very unusual and I think the reason we are both very pumped to try this. Not a lot of cleansing bombs at the drug store so true Absolutely true and I think just the name watermelon. It's beautiful lavender tube. It really was giving me glow recipe by So so I mean it could be sort of a dupe. What is unique is the fact that it's in a tube and it's not in a tub which typically cleansing bombs are? So they're saying that this is more hygiene Sir not sticking your hand in over and over again potentially contaminating it. Let me just explain. So you're meant to put it on dry hands and put it on a dry face and then you massage it in for about a minute and it's going to start to dissolve the makeup. That's on your face and it does do that but what I found found is that when I went to then rents I mean. We talked about this in the Rene Rollo episode and her kind of hate on for cleansing bombs. And I was like no wait but when I used this product what she said came flooding back to me. And that's all the residue that's left on your face after you use a cleansing bomb and none of your products after after that are going to be able to penetrate and I just really felt like it was amiss with this product that it says nothing on the back that you need. Use a wash cloth with it right and if you don't I can't even explain to you. The thick layer of goop. That was on my face after over a minute. I'm trying to rinse it off and finally I just gave up and use the towel rates to to dry my face off. But you absolutely need to use a wash cloth which you do with most cleansing bombs but like don't assume that it should be on the instructions which a lot of clean bombs they are some of them come with Muslim claw or you need to do a second cleanse. After I was just going to say you need to do a double Abo- client is sounds to me like it's the perfect first clients to get all of that. Make up on everything off and then well it does loosen it. Yes so so what I used after was the Garnier missile. This alert rate water Mesler cleansing water so used that with a cotton round story. Joe Was not reasonable this time. I'm just using what I had from before but what I found is then you look at that round and there was a bunch of makeup on it still You know again like the claim is that it washes everything away. Okay and I was like well. There's a lot of sitting on my ipad so I don't know I feel like I am a question for you when you normally use a cleansing bomb that's more luxury price point Do you you do a second cleanse. So typically I haven't and so- Rene was the one who got me thinking about the fact of whether I wanted to. But why in fairness if you'd used used a Mr cleanser with any of those bombs to you might have had makeup on your face unknowingly. I would but what I'm saying. Is that in this. This one compared to other bombs. There's like this milky thick texture. There's way more residue left on your face. That is really hard to get off than the other bombs. uh-huh that post fair. So maybe I just needed to me that Like way too much. I'm like where's my towel. I didn't want to open my eyes. Okay you know okay And maybe that's a function of how much you use and everything but what I do want to say learning curve. Yeah What I do want to say is that indeed labs is a really a cool brand and they have a lot of great products? I just think as a gateway product try their hydro Laurent moisturizers. They're amazing they're filled with hollow onic acid. The price point point is fantastic. I know you're a big fan of the no acid pad. Yes they're really cool. That are much more gentle. The retinal reface is great. The the vitamin C.. Twenty four is great. There's got a lot of lights to the exposure later to that they. I think they reformulated it Just in the fall. And that's a great duke soup for the cleansing bullying. Powders that we talked about last week. This is pretty much again to your point the only one at drugstore that dupes exfoliating eating powders. Yeah let's pause to chat about an innovation from bioscience a treasure of a brand and one of our valued show partners curling. You know way back in two thousand eighteen one of our most popular episodes. It was up thirty one. I think it was when we dissect everything being to do with squealing totally. I remember you even went to that. Bio San's pop up. They did on a bus downtown. You're out there asking everyone if they knew. WPF's she f- square lane was. Yeah Roving reporting. It was so fun and as a quick Refresher Square lane is a mega moisturizing molecule. That's great for skin's Barrier Health Minute Senate weightless Louis locks in moisture so skin is softer and more plump and and biosciences line. It's all about scaling derived from sugarcane so the latest list innovation. Let's talk about that is the Bio San scaling plus ten percent lactic acid resurfacing night. Serum people are loving this product. I I know it sold holdout on at least one retailer online. It's Vegan Formula Super Silky texture and that lactic acid another one of those tried and proven ingredients. It's an H. A. or an Alpha hydroxy acid and it delivers a gentler. But a quick fast resurfacing. So you're GONNA wake up with more luminous skin here for it. What I I noticed? Even after one use is that it really refines the skin's texture so and I didn't notice any redness no air -tations really gentle. Yeah so I have sensitive skin and that's the same thing. I noticed that I didn't get any drawing or flaking that can somehow times happened with so stinging so it was gentler but if I just woke up in the morning even after that I use I would say my skin look more refined in radiant. GotTa love that. Yeah we have a special offer for breaking beauty listeners to try this damn good new Overnight Serum for yourselves so head to bioscience dot com to shop and use Discount Code Breaking Beauty Twenty at checkout for twenty percent off in a friendly only reminder that anytime you support one of our show partners. You're supporting us in creating this show. That's right so visit bioscience dot com and enter Code Breaking King Beauty Twenty at checkout for twenty percent off willing to it in our show notes and now back to the podcast. So what else have you been trying. Okay so I gotTA put like my lab coat on infamous one. This is the most technical product and probably the most innovative of all the formulas we are talking about today. Consider me intrigues. So this is the Laurie. Al Paris wonder underwater Lamela Rinse out eight second treatment. It's tenuous dollars and twelve ninety nine in Canada. Have you tried this. No okay so as you you can see from the top it's Basically LAMELA technology. It's kind of like taking over the hair industry has an insulin lamela treatment so lamela emily technology the way it works. It's formulated with ultralight molecules. That are ten times smaller than those found in traditional conditioners and masks. Okay and they're activated when when they come in contact with water out almost like an essence or water for your skin where the molecules are smaller so it penetrates that it actually is activated by the water in your shower okay. So when activated upon water these molecules form an ultra fine topcoat on the surface of the hair. And so what you get. Is this like hyper shiny. glasslike finish not unlike glass skin that you would see in Korea this is like glass shine and manageability for your hair okay. So it's a treatment that's right so you could use. Is it every single time that you're in the shower but at some it's not a shampoo conditioner exactly an extra stop. Yeah you shampoo your hair as usual you can use whatever shampoo normally alike and then what you WanNa do is you put this on your hair and it has a nozzle not unlike the ones you would find an at home color kit. You'll find tip nozzle. The bottle itself is two hundred milliliters. And Will you'll notice is on the side of the bottle it's like an apothecary style kind of like dark amber. Yeah yeah amber. And along the side you'll see twenty millimeter increments sort of marked out almost like a Meghan Gossamer. Yeah so what you WANNA do. Is someone like me. I have medium MM thick hair It says she is twenty M l.. So you'll be squeezing out twenty milliliters of this product. So what I do is I put it on wet hair and you put it in your hand hand and then throw it on or you put it directly on your hair. Put it directly Omega because of the nozzle and it's meant to almost be like a flash contact with your hair hence the eight seconds begins to put it on for longer right. That's how fast it works. I'll tell frigging hair. I'm so lazy with hair mask. Yeah I'm like who's got ten minutes. I'm like freezing in the shower. I don't WanNa wait. I'll do hair mask. It like this law but at home I want treatment. That's quick okay. So this goes on your hair. I put on twenty m L. after I shampooed the first thing you notice is it warms up like I poured it right onto my hair and then I used my hands to sort of massage it in and it's like I asked why that happens is and they said it's an exothermic reaction. Okay when the molecules come in contact with the water okay. I have not heard that before so. Leave it on too long. We'll your hair catch sean. Fire no it will not unless you're like around a deputy candle or something but No so it's just the eight seconds really just indicates how quickly it were brave and so for me. I use this just to as a treatment of to get that Silky glasslike shine. I did not follow it up with conditioner but many people might WanNa follow it with conditioning. It's also if you have a lot of tangles like me. Yeah and it's also different application in the sense that most treatments you do after you condition your hair This goes in the middle. Oh Andrew Shampoo this but wonder water and then commissioner if you WANNA get like skin care it's like you you WanNa have that straight contact like directly with the hair hair follicle right exactly so basically the Lamelo is kind of like missiles and missile or water. There are Lamelo and Lamar Technology and they deposit actives like Amino Acids in proteins straight to the hair. cuticle in the genius thing is that it only delivers to the area of the hair damaged and needed the most okay. So there's positive charges in the malls and those are attracted to the negative charges of hair damage. Okay so they mind those to the hair and smooth it all out exactly where it's needed needed it so fascinating. Yes I love that. It's eight seconds because I'm lazy slash busy and so at the end of the day. Did you have glass hair. Botswana's ask for me my hair type. I don't have really frizzy hair. I don't have curly hair. I don't have very processed here. The result is hair is like instantly transformed. It was way straighter way silkier right without being weighed down. That's my biggest issue with conditioners and I think people with fine hair will be really looking for our products like this okay. There's a lot of them. Just skip conditioner can entirely right. ryssdal get hair damaged from brushing her hair and just yeah wear and tear you know. It's like an lighter weight alternative to a hair treatment demand kind of smooth for his as well yeah it smooths Frizz and Lake in the in the salon like Harris offers and insolence treatment. A- LAMELA treatment and sorry. It's been something that's been insulin. And it's definitely taking off and you're going to hear more and more about it but this wonder water is really first to market innovation right in a couple. We'll just a little learning curve. Things US twenty M l.. Twenty milliliters as indicated on the bottle. But it does say that people with thicker or curl. Your hair should use forty milliliters or up to sixty million. Oh that's like a third of the bottle. Yeah so you may not want to use it every single time and I put it on in like just test the waters a little bit it to see how much you need And if you WANNA use conditioner afterwards by all means you can. I think you do have really thicker. Curly hair your you probably will right okay and I won't Overdo or do it. No that's right and I just found like yeah. My hair was Very Silky very shiny. I'm going to show you the box because there are some images of before and after is on the ball. Wow Oh oh do indicate how well it works but there is a learning curve to using it. Let's talk about some of the makeup products. We've been loving so far. Yes I WANNA shout shoutout one that I think is really fun. It is uplifting upon site It's the next cosmetic. Sabrina the chilling adventures of Sabrina. Marina is shadow. Spell Book Make Pallet Mouth Fall. It's thirty five and forty five Canadian and it just went on counter last week And I've got it here. I know that you and I saw it in person but just as a reminder it is so beautiful it's quite large. It's almost the size of a small notebook. Like like if I guess if a piece of paper is eight and a half by eleven. It's probably like six by seven or something like it is large not as I have no idea But it looks like a spell book inside like it's got all these little glimpse and you know obviously reminiscent of the show tells you are those glimpse inside not recommendations of the shadows to where together together for different spells. They were saying Oh. I didn't put that together Ashley. That's smarter isn't that funny so the look has to spell enough the ex boyfriend where the rideau some of the names of the Yes. So of course. This is all based on the Netflix. Show with cure an in shape guy and I think this is really smart. Art because the euphoria show popped off and like lead to total trend. So I feel like it's almost capitalizing on that so it has thirty pans of newly newly formulated our shadows and I think that's important to mention because so many pallets are like an amalgamation existing shades. These are all new shades which is really cool? One thing I will say is that if you read the tiny tiny fine print on the back five of these quote unquote is shadow. Shades are press powders that are not not meant to be worn near. Is We learn about this in our caller pop episodes. So I don't know where you're GONNA put this red press pool and the hot painting while they have to make that disclaimer. But let's get real. Most people probably wearing them around the is so true and then it has three Sheikh Pans at the bottom is wall so that's a lot of pans of color for the money and I'll tell you about the ones that I've been wearing. So one is called Mortuary K.. And it's dusty Mauve rose and I wearing worrying that today right here with the one right beside it. It's called eternal bliss and it's kind of like a rose dusty rose shimmer and On the weekend they were this one called dark carnival which is like an iridescent kind of peacock too black color rate It's one of those shades says like difficult to pinpoint what it is and it looks Kinda different in different light and there's like an orange one in here that's called Devil's work and there's also a green called frog legs which I I think is really fun because it green is probably really the most underrepresented makeup color gains in the world of beauty. Let's be real And so so I think it's really great that they have one here like there's just a lot of out of the box shades that I really want to like get into and play where it can. I see yeah yeah. This is a hot commodity. You guys and it's how smart is it. That netflix is doing a makeup collaboration. Like there needs to be like a tab on Netflix to just shop merch. Yeah Yeah because like I would buy cheer sweater from Jerry Did you watch the documentary. Bonilla leader I didn't. I'm obsessed with sex education right now and I. I would wear that T. Shirt all day long. It's so good so there's one here that's called many charm. and that's the shades are Salem and dark carnival that you just mentioned and limbo. Oh Okay Yeah. Everything's just like casting a spell. It's really cool. This is going to sell out to put my glasses on and actually recommended combos adding up your Vanity Idiots still still a work in progress so true and so yeah I think that it's all very like enchanting and bewitching and I feel like for the price this is just a bundle of fun yeah it really is. You're up your February. What about you in the world of makeup? What do you let go? I'm GonNa talk about an eye shadow palate to this. It does not have like bright colors at all. It's actually a neutral shadow pallet. Who doesn't need one of those never still always searching for great news? I have so many pallets but I always dip into new neutral Palette so this one lately there's so many different nuance is it gonNA look muddy for two ash-shihr Chaki sailing. Yeah so this one is from Mabley New York. It's called the nudes of New York. It's thirteen ninety nine. US dollars at seventeen ninety nine Canadian and there are sixteen different shades in this pallet. I I saw this I believe Casey Muss Graves who. I'm obsessed with her. Makeup artists. Used it on her for an award show back in November and You might think. Oh this is just another nude palate but what's newsworthy. And what caught my attention. And Caroline's is that the first pallet custom designed to flatter for a wide range of skin tones. Okay so You might remember a few years ago. Like abeline created the red for all lipstick line and there were seven shades in that each of those seven red lipsticks was tested on fifty. Different Skin tones. So they've taken a patron that with this particular Palette that are all or just nudes. There's some Shimer's there's some mats there's The Champagne Konak collars these these like dark. Chocolate kind of colors gold's green golds olds and they've made sure that they look good and that they show up on every skin tone right so maybe the first at masses you means to tackle like all skin tones in one unpalatable a verse from the ramp. Okay so what I think is really impressive. Is that a lot of times nude pallets at the drugstore. There's a lot of pigment fallout. The pigment. Payoff is not there and worst of all on dark skin tone they look really chalky or they can look really dull the call. It's just like why would it on yellow I I I did. I tried it myself. I really vouch for the quality of the shades and then I also did some research online to see the swatches on women of color and you they do show up there and create a lot of beautiful looks with that and I see of course So like I mentioned there are sixteen Hughes and I just think in general right now as a brand maybelline salinas killing it. Yeah they've had some really good launch. Yes I would. I agree in the past everything I tried from them at the drugstore this this time around from their policies slash lift Mascara. You tried that too. It was quite good. They have this genius new liquid eyeliner. That is a hexagonal shape. The Pencil itself is a hexagonal shape. So it doesn't slipping Zaire hand. John Handle it holds still so you can get that liquid liner on. Well I wanNA tell you mention the lashof Mascara for maybelline. I did try about one knows quite good another Mascara that I'm really liking right now. It's the BIRT's B.'s all aflutter volume izing Mascara. It landed in stores in January. It's twelve ninety. Nine and thirteen ninety. Nine Canadian comes in three shades. Black Brown and Navy so birds. Bees launched their first Mascara I called the nourishing Mascara Moscow back in two thousand seventeen and that really focused on lengthening and defining and I I gave that when Kudos because it was really good doesn't smudge at all in in my experience and it's just like a great every day Mascara that like I said it's easy to wash off your it doesn't smudge like it's that's kind of a dream for so many women like like me. It has nourishing B.'s walks in Hobart oil. So it's not gonNA be Vegan but it is meant to be good for sensitive is as well so hypoallergenic neck opthalmologist tested no parabens pilates or petroleum in the making of the product and not tested on animals. So has all those qualities going for it. This new one. Obviously he just going by the name is volume izing. So that's what I had said about the original as it's a subtle luck but I like that it just kind of did its job right. So this one's GonNa Review Review Eight. Now Yeah it looks great. So this one's going to give you more volume so it's basically like the bird species. God's listened to what I said and they were like okay. Let's make them more volume izing when they actually have have another foreign one. That's meant to do four different Lake Curl and define and all that stuff but I think I lost that one so the volume izing Mascara. I do recommend now one thing I will say about it is. This is one of the funniest packages that I've seen in a while. I think this is like but ugly. Oh it's just like it's dark doc Brown on one side Wedlake a gray pewter on the other so it just and the shape is like bazaar just doesn't have anything like again if you look at a typical like maybe lean like I love the colossal bright yellow or you know or just like something else that has more sophistication however tradeoff for purpose right. Yeah so what I'm GonNa say is probably the reason for that. Is that this Mascara is made from eighty one percent post consumer recycled content. That's a win. That's amazing. Eighty eighty one percent. Yeah that's a really high like a lot of products will try to use post consumer recycled content. And it's like twenty one percent something like the I like. This is almost completely you know so. I think that that is a win. They As a brand have been carbon neutral certified since twenty fifteen meaning being. They haven't said anything to the landfill. That's incredible and they also in November launched with Tara cycle so you can download a shipping label able and send your products back to be properly recycled and they do sort them separate them and make sure that they are being properly recycled and and I just want to do a quick other shoutout to another birthdays products that I have been using all lot and loving since I got back in November it just launched and it's the birds bees defining eyeliner k the shade. That I like. I really like as called gilded sage. It's again twelve ninety nine super inexpensive. It's a gorgeous bronzes green so again going back to that color I feel like people are talking about that right now. It's like. How often do you see? Just this really lovely kind kind of green. Bronx Watch that you just did. This is not the right way brought along shaded. I'm sorry I thought it was like a foresty one it it is. It's kind of like a ED bronze e green and I do think green is one of those things where you have to get the right shade to make it. Look good on your eyes and not just one that's really like I was talking about the To the makeup artist on an event and it's very versatile on a variety of skin tones I colors and it's just something a little different and I have found myself using it as my last stop in almost any our shadow kind of configuration. I've been using to go out at night and it just like completes the luck. Yeah and it's so much softer than a black rate. Eight site like a little bit more sophisticated than a brown. Yeah so yeah I've been using it alive Well it's interesting to me that the products you talked about like at least half are basically like really moving the needle on the echo front. Yeah for sure and Jessica tells you about where we are in the industry right now on where we're gonNA continue to grow in and see more of that happening at the drugstore. Absolutely I totally agree with you. I think that's what we're starting to see is. Is this inspiration from in India brands. That starting to finally these big conglomerates that take so long to make a move yeah are starting to make moves and thus really exciting exciting going into a new decade. Yeah and there's going to be more launches to calm. This is what we got our hands on and had time to test for right now but We will obviously every single month. We we try to bring you these damn good episodes so let us know if there's something else you've seen on the drugstore shelves that you want us to test any topics that you want us to do really deep dives on for Product reviews we will test it all. Yeah so thank you guys once again. Everything we mentioned today is on our blog at breaking beauty. PODCASTS DOT COM. Join US on instagram. Grandma breaking media podcast or join our facebook chat room where we have a lot of fun conversations and we will see you next week. Thanks thanks for tuning in visit breaking beauty. PODCASTS DOT COM for details on all the damn good products. We talked about in today's episode and be sure to sign up for our newsletter. That way you'll get every episode delivered right to your inbox. You won't miss a single thing or subscribe to us on Apple podcasts. spotify stitcher Google play wherever you get your podcast fix and please show some love by rating us or review us in. It CENEX time

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Hollywoods past can help us understand its present. Karina Longworth shows us how.

I Think You're Interesting

49:44 min | 2 years ago

Hollywoods past can help us understand its present. Karina Longworth shows us how.

"Hello. And welcome to. I think you're interesting on Todd Vandort. The I I think interesting and this week's guest is one of my podcast heroes. I listened to every episode of her show. I love what she does. And how she's carved out his base for herself in the podcast and game. And you know, if you've read the title of this episode, you know, that her name is Karina Longworth. She's the host of you must. Remember, this wonderful podcast about sort of these hidden stories behind the history of Hollywood, she delves into all of their like tales that were told at the time that we're sort of being covered up in the gossip magazines if you will and she has done in essence, what is incredibly in depth dive into the world of old Hollywood in her new book seduction, which just sort of a blown away by I think it's one of the best non fiction type of the year the books about Howard Hughes. Who's sort of us. Of course, was this famous extremely rich, man. He was an aviator. He was a business tycoon, and he was a movie producer of sorts. He's perhaps more famous now for the way he died, which was an extreme isolation and become a recluse and clearly had some undiagnosed mental health issues going on. But during his heyday, Howard Hughes was one of the most powerful figures in Hollywood. And what's interesting about carino's book is the way that she uses Hughes as a prism not just for Hollywood. But for all of these women who came in contact with him some of them came away, you know, better off for having met him like Katherine Hepburn was someone that he was he was very close to for a while. And she obviously had a wonderful career. But a lot of them had their lives essentially ruined by Howard Hughes. And what I love about Green's book is the way that she focuses on these women not as. Pursuits of Hughes as women that he vetted in his sort of playboy image. But as people who had their lives really destroyed by what Hughes did. And I think that that is a really fascinating way to reframe this idea of the billionaire playboy, which is so prevalent in our culture. And anyway, I recommend the book even if you like turn out the episode right now, you should go get the book. But I think the Carina had some really fascinating things to say about Hollywood about these women about Howard Hughes and about like the ways that these systems that he helped perpetuate continue to this day. It's a really fascinating discussion. I could've talked to her for three hours more. So anyway, stick around. I think you're gonna like it. Karina longworth. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. So obviously like the book is about Howard Hughes, but it's about him through sort of a different prism. But for all of our listeners who maybe don't know who Howard Hughes's, which is probably a fair amount of people. Sadly, kind of tell us who the guy was and what this book what prisonment looks at him through. Born in nineteen o five and he was the son of a guy who invented a new drill bit, which basically made drilling for oil much easier, and he became very rich off of this. And then his dad both of his parents died when he was a teenager. So Howard Hughes inherited his father's company and his estate. So he basically can I swear on this swear? So he had he was like a twenty year old kid with fuck you money, and he could do anything he wanted. And when he decided to do was moved to Houston move from Houston to Hollywood, and he wanted to become the greatest motion picture producer of all time as well. As edit the greatest aviator and the greatest Gulf player, and he stopped playing golf, but he got pretty close on the nation front at least like four his era. And then he continued to dabble in making movies from about nineteen twenty five until about the end of the nineteen fifties and over that course of time he had a lot of relationships with a lot of actresses. And he also got into a. A lot of plane crashes and had a lot of head injuries. And especially from the nineteen forties on became increasingly eccentric. And now it's easy to see was suffering from probably mental problems that stemmed from these head injuries. I wasn't alive for the end of his life. I was alive for the battle over. He didn't leave a will. So there was a lot of legal wrangling over who got his money. So that's kind of how I I came to know him was this weird recluse who to height all by himself. But you know, sort of other portrayals of him have shoe really played up the glamour, you think about that's the which I think is a good movie. But like definitely plays up the glamour angle what I what I like about this book. Is it plays up? I mean, obviously, it's it's steeped in that old Hollywood world. But it's also talking about the way that he sort of robbed the women this life of their agency in recurring pattern, and I'm wondering like how you came to think about Hughes through the perspective of these women who knew him well. What I was really interested. In was the actress is more than I was interested in Hughes and so- Hughes became an easy way to kind of tie together. A lot of different actresses experiences of trying to work in Hollywood during this period that historians called the classical Hollywood era. So yeah, I mean, I just thought of him as the spine of the story as kind of the Trojan horse through which I could smuggle in these stories of female experience. One thing that I think is probably my favorite thing about the book is the way it's that it sort of, you know, uses the idea of Hughes like essentially imprisoning some of these women as a almost a metaphor. Like, maybe that's too grand a word almost a metaphor for the way that Hollywood gradually sort of stripped women of their agency. And I think you dig really deeply into like how Hollywood was a place where independent women could go tell me about how that shift sort of came to be over. The course of what's in this book, which is roughly the silent era through the fifties there some later. Stuff. But. I'm sorry. What shift the shift from the idea of Hollywood in the book, it starts as Hollywood is a place where like an independent woman who wants to make her own career can go and buy, you know, the nineteen fifties. Those you're looking at someone like idol Pino who's like the only female director working like how did how did that shift occur? I don't know that it says simple as a shift. You know, there is a period during the silent era, particularly where there were more females directors and women were working in all aspects of filmmaking. And but I don't think it necessarily stopped being a situation where independent women could arrive in Hollywood and try to have careers. It's just that they're especially women who wanted to be actresses. There was a trade off. And you got a lot of benefits for stardom. But in a lot of cases, you had to give up something essential about who you were if not many an or all of these sense. Things about who you were to become sort of another person, and and to take on persona, and so that in itself is kind of dehumanizing process. And then when you pair that with a lot of the sort of sexual situations that a lot of actresses found themselves in because of men like Howard Hughes who were able to use their power freely that is a further dehumanization process. So not, you know, certainly, not every independent woman who came to Hollywood faced both of those processes, but a lot of them faced a little bit of age. We're probably going to return to that theme throughout the discussion. But I do sort of wanna ask how did you write this? It's j- and like there's so much research that went into it. And I read your in the back, you say notes about sources, and like you spent ten or eleven days this library collection in Texas. How did you sort of commence the research process of this in like nail down what it was gonna look like well for my podcast. I always just try to read everything that I can that's been printed about somebody that I'm writing about. But I had a two year deadline on this. So I knew I had more time to go deeper. So I just immediately, you know, I'm kind of a bibliography nut. And so when I do read a book, I'm always going back and forth to the sources and just basically trying to deconstruct how the book was made. And so I was able to do that for Howard Hughes, and for some of my other subjects I was able to basically figure out that there were papers at various places. And so I just you know, I wanted to go to. Original sources as much as possible. So I I mean, definitely the first year of working on the book, I was mostly just reading, and you know, I was I was actually living in London at the time because my boyfriend's work, and so I would make these trips usually to America to various cities, and I would only have like five to seven days. And so I would just furiously photocopy like files or be printing things out from microfiche or doing whatever I could to accumulate papers that I could then take back to London where I would read everything, and as I was collecting these different things, I was keeping this long document where I was organizing all my research chronologically, so any like note any quote from person any anecdote, I would just put where it belonged on the chronological document. So I knew everything that happened in nineteen twenty five to all of these people or nineteen forty two in the forties where where a lot of this stuff happen. And so once I had done that that I was able to kind of figure out. Well, this is how you divide up all of these time periods into. Chapters and these are the important stories to tell about people, and it was just kind of a weeding out process. Are you somebody who usually you say you like to read everything written about a person, but at the in his obituary people's at Howard, his was the most publicized. So like there must have been mountains of stuff to read about him. Yeah. I mean, I went to Las Vegas twice, and I had to go twice because what they have at the university of Las Vegas, Nevada are the files kept by the publicists that he employed for basically until from about nineteen forty seven until the end of his life and a lot of the work. These publicist did was collecting clippings files about everything that had to do. With Howard Hughes about anybody. He was interested in that he told them to collect clippings on and then other topics that he was also interested in like the mafia. And so there's just hundreds and hundreds of boxes of mostly newspaper clippings in these files. And when you go to an archive like that, you know that you're not gonna be able to read everything, but you can like fish. Figure out how to carve a path through it. So that you get like a real bird's eye view of how somebody was written about over the course of their lifetime. There isn't interesting thread on Twitter by the journalist and Helen Peterson who is talking about how all journalists, and I think all nonfiction writers like have one of either research research slash reporting, writing and editing that they like least and for me. It's always been research. Are you somebody who really loves that sort of deep dive? Yeah. Well, I'm not really reporting. I'm not great at talking to people. But in terms of reading everything. Yeah. I really liked that yet between those three things. I guess I would I would divide research reporting up. So it would be four things and reporting would be the thing that I like Billy is. But I'm okay with the other three. Tell me about the process of like of writing it because it's it's it's a long it's a long book it's four hundred and fifty pages. But I'm sure you had to leave a lot outlook sort of how did you find the spine of what the story was going to be? I did leave things out. And mean, I don't consider it. A biography of Howard Hughes at all. And I it is not a full biography of any of the ten women who are the main characters, but I was actually surprised when I turned in the first draft about a year ago. I thought that my editor would be slashing his way through it telling me it was way too long. It's definitely longer than what I was contracted to write. But instead he wanted me to add things there were areas that he wanted me to flush out. So it's not the book you pick up. If you want a comprehensive biography of Howard Hughes, or Jean Harlow or Jane Russell, it's more of a group portrait of these people, but it's not like their stuff on the cutting room floor that I think is really important. You also watch a lot of the movies that these women's starred in movies produced. The actresses covered in the book range from like really famous people at Katherine Hepburn like people. We've we've all heard of to, you know, more obscure figures like Terry Moore who claim she was married to Hughes on a yacht or something like that. Nets. Who who are some of the people that you sort of came away with a new understanding of whether obscure or really famous, you know, I don't think I had seen any Terry Moore movie other than PanAm place before I wrote the book, and so she was nominated for an Oscar for a movie called comeback little Sheba. And you know, Terry Moore is somebody who makes her self very open to criticism because of her claims about her relationship with Hughes. But what was really surprising to me? It was that she really was amassing a career as a serious actress in the nineteen fifties working with people like Elliott Kazan, and you know, I think her personal life did kind of get in the way, but like the absolutely deserved to be nominated for an Oscar for comeback little Sheba, and you know. We talk about Katherine Hepburn as being one of the greatest actresses of all time. And you know, certainly, she is great, and she was a great movie star. But it's is really interesting to think that Terry Moore like really had this serious career that she deserved that was like kind of just out of her grasp how much of that that stardom is in Nate like how much of Katherine Hepburn being one of the biggest stars of all time is Nate to her talent, which is considerable on how much of it is just that. She didn't end up having no with with the horrible luck of she escaped the Hughes orbit. Let's say, well, I don't think that Hughes held her back at all. And as I as I detail in the book like the kind of the process of her becoming a great star is what I talk about in the book. And I think a lot of it does have to do with Howard Hughes. And certainly like she was at a kind of a crisis point in her stardom and having this relationship with Hughes that was very public helped people. About her in a different way helped kind of soften her persona and made it more feminine and more sort of hetero normative, and then he helped her get the rights to the Philadelphia story, which is the movie that really kind of cemented her her starting. I'm like she could have kind of drifted away at the end of the nineteen thirties. And the Philadelphia story is the thing that really brought her back and then forming partnership with Spencer Tracy took her to another level as well. Because it's not a biography of Hughes. You don't need to you know, sort of speculate us to some of his motivations because a lot of them are shrouded. But I did find myself wondering, you know, this repeated pattern of he encounters woman his attracted to and he puts hundred contract in essence locks her away, especially after his crash in nineteen forty eight. Is that? Okay. So as you encountered that pattern. Did you get a sense of law by that was happening? What was driving him to do that? Well, I think he had especially after that crash. You know, I think he really had the personality of a collector. He wanted to have ownership over things whether he played with them or not that's a the most sink, twig and analyze it. You know, I mean, I'm not I'm not a psychoanalyst, and it wasn't. You know, the primary thing I was trying to do in this book. But I did one of the the sources I have is that I was able to look at the files of a guy named Raymond Fowler. Who was a psychologist who was hired by Hughes's lawyers after his death to do what was called a posthumous, psychological autopsy, and so he basically wrote kind of a biography of Hughes's mental health over the course of his lifetime. And so reading his files was really interesting to be able to kind of tie together certain things. And I mean there hasn't been a book about. Hughes. Oh, yeah. I think in about twenty years, and so there hasn't really been conversation about him since we've come to understand head injuries better. You know, like now we have this public conversation about football and and concussions and how hitting your head a lot can really change your personality. And I think it's you know, it's sort of too late to apply a lot of those things to Howard Hughes actual brain. But it is interesting to think about these possibilities that could explain some of his behavior. Yeah. This is a question. I had throughout the book. Do you think he was a good businessman 'cause like most of the deals he makes just involve him selling off things weren't doing too. Well, I don't know. I guess I don't have a enough of an understanding of business myself to be able to judge between good or bad. But I think that in a lot of cases, he got what he wanted because of his strategies that were maybe maybe seemed more like eccentricities, I think that there is you know, really until he gets embroiled in. This TWA fiasco, which he ultimately comes out of about three hundred million dollars richer. There weren't a lot of situations where he went into a business situation and didn't get what he wanted. You talked about reading newspaper clippings in such. But the things that we all know about old Hollywood is a lot of stuff was buried under the publicity machine, which sort of made everybody, look, you know, as good as possible, so to speak or fit sort of the studio line, what was happening and I'm wondering like when you do this book, or when you do the podcast how much of that is sort of uncovering a mystery like digging behind what that studio line was. Yeah, I think that's one of the main activities of both the book in the podcast. And and, you know, there are a lot of things that we can never really know especially about, you know, the nineteen fifties before where a lot of the people who are alive or not around ask about it. But I think that once you kind of have an understanding especially in this case, I mean, Howard Hughes had these relationships with every gossip columnist where he would feed them items that he got from his detective so that they wouldn't write about things that he didn't want them to write about he paid off people all over town. Once you understand things like that. Then you can read any gossip column item about him or anybody who was involved with and sort of see behind the screen a little bit. How do you start to develop that sense of? Knowing there's something more there and being able to feel like, okay, I can uncover this or this is just always going to be a mystery. I think it's just a case by case basis. You know, I mean, there are some things that I've written about in the past where now that I know more about how things work I wish I could go back, and and be more skeptical the more I do this work about Hollywood the more skeptical. I get the more I feel like I have to question everything. And also, the more I feel like truth is maybe not something that I'm ever gonna have a fixed understanding of because publicity is just a form of storytelling in Hollywood. It's not about you know, somebody has a great accomplishment, and we need to get everybody to know about it. Like, it's like a parallel narrative to filmmaking. Right, right. One parallel that kept striking me throughout the book was thinking about Hughes in terms of the current occupant of the White House, which I think is unavoidable in a lot of ways living in this era. But we're you you worked on this book through. Out his campaign throughout that election, where you sort of did those parallel strike you as you were working on it. Well, one thing I can say is that there's a line in the introduction. That is sort of a thesis statement about how we're finally having conversation about men abusing their power. It's time to rethink the idea of the playboy as being a good thing. And one way to do that is by talking about the stories of the women who are involved with the playboy from their perspective. And I read that line the morning after the two thousand sixteen election. I just woke up, and I had like watched the election and a bar with some friends and had too much to drink and look up just like upset and sad. And but I had those lines in my head. And I understood that like I had to I had to get that out at that moment. And then you know, stuck around two years later, and it's in the book now one of the things that you you've talked about on the podcast, especially as like how stories about women in the movies. Always been ways that they talk about the stomach abuse of women by the movie industry, or by society. Let's say like ways to talk about issues that affect primarily women now that we're kind of in this era of like like you said talking more about the abuses of powerful, man. Even if we haven't gone as far as perhaps, we might what we're sort of the outlets for people to talk about that where people talking about that at all or is truly like a new thing. That's happening. People weren't like actresses publicly talking about any of this stuff. And during the period that my book covers, and you know, I think that in a lot of cases people didn't think that they were being abused. And and that's because some of this treatment was so systemic. I think women spoke to each other and like warn them about certain men, in some cases. But I mean, like I can't remember if it's in her auto biography or just an interview, but there's this thing about Ginger Rogers where she's talking about Harry Cohn who ran Columbia, and she's like, oh, he was a real, ladies, man. He used to chase us all around his desk. And it's like, that's that's the way that was the language that was used about a lot of people like Harry Cohen like forced actresses to have sex with him and an actress who was very famous and had a certain amount of power to be able to brush him off as a ladies man who chased you around his desk. I mean that kind of language is not something that anybody would use today even people who are me too skeptics, even Catherine Deneuve when not call a rapist. A ladies man that is sort of an interesting thing about like, I never would have thought about the other side of being a playboy for at least in Howard Hughes. This case without reading this book because there's been so many portrayals of him as this guy who, you know, slept with all these beautiful, women and cetera and wasn't that fun. And like I'm wondering how you kind of came to sink about to flip that on its ear to sort of be more skeptical of that image like how that thesis occurred to you. What wasn't even really a cease? It was just that. I wanted to know what the women's experiences were. And I like I didn't go into thinking that the women's experiences would be all bad. And certainly they weren't like I mean, there are people in the book who look really enjoyed their time that they spent with Howard Hughes, and like, you know, Jane, Russell is somebody who spoke in kind of this sort of Ginger Rogers way about him of like like these girls were lucky to have been selected by him and to have been put an apartment that was guarded by chauffeurs and bodyguards. So yeah, I just wanted to tell it from the perspective of like China empathize with a woman who you know, what she wants to start them. And maybe she also wants romance and security and various things and how their experience with him looked and felt to them. I'm someone who grew up watching old movies with my mom, and then there was sort of that mythology of well, they just don't make them like that anymore. You know, kind of that idea like everything was better in, you know, insert period in the past of choice becoming skeptical of that has been like a lifelong process, and I'm wondering. If you had a moment as somebody who loves classic movies. Like, if you had a moment when you were like, oh, this was not all that great like the stories behind them stories of the people who made them, the producers cetera were not as as you know. Cheerful as they'd been sold. I guess I've always had nowhere -ness of that. Honestly. One of my first memories is being like four or five years old. And my mother explaining to me who rock Hudson was on what aides was and like how sad it was that he wasn't able to be who he truly was for his whole life. And so that was one of the first things I ever learned about anything. Yeah. I think I always new things about Judy Garland, and how you know. I remember watching the wizard of Oz. My mother being like, you know, she was eighteen they've taped her breasts down for only pretended to be twelve years old. And you know, so I kind of always had this awareness that there was things kind of darker that went alongside with the things that were kind of glamorous inglorious over you always drawn to the movies like leave when you're that small. Well, yeah, I I didn't think that was strange at all maybe it's because I grew up in Los Angeles in the eighties. But I yeah, I just it just seemed completely normal to me to be interested in old movies. You remember your first favorite movie? Probably those of us. So there are things that are not smart one of them might be. If you were Howard Hughes building a giant airplane that could barely fly. Sinking a lot of your fortune into it and calling. It the spruce goose actually he'd called it that I think the press did. But I think we can all agree. That was not smart. But you know, what is smart going to ZipRecruiter dot com slash think. To hire the right person. Ziprecruiter, doesn't depend on candidates finding you finds them for you. It's powerful matching. Technology scans thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills education and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast. Ziprecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US that rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot over one thousand reviews and right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter dot com slash think. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash think. Ziprecruiter dot com slash think. Come on, folks. They'll be a spruce goose ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. Hello. I'm Spencer hall from Espy nation. And I want to tell you about my new show. It seemed smart it seems smart as a show about people doing things that for some reason or another seem smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing one hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it Tele friend, I'm Spencer hall. Don't do anything smart. When did you decide that this was going to be your career? Like, did you I stumbled into this totally? And it feels like a lot of people who are in our profession in in kind of our generation also did someone during if that was always your thing you wanted to do right about the movies. I don't know about right about them. I didn't really know. Specifically what I wanted to do. I was interested in a lot of different things and most of them had to do with visual media. And so I went to art school. And it was when I was in art school that I started reading serious criticism and film history, and and became interested in kind of going deeper into the way things where made so I after undergrad I applied to graduate schools and some of the programs. I applied to like I was just last weekend in Boston and him by IT, and I had applied to a program at my team that would have been more about like, you know, doing statistical research about the way people watch things, but I didn't get into that one didn't get into the one that would have been more literary that I applied to Brown. The when I got into the one at NYU, which is a cinema studies program, and so that really focused. My help me focus my intr-. Based on on classical Hollywood. And and still while I was in graduates glide didn't know what I was going to do. I've kind of learned through graduate school that I probably wasn't going to become an academic teaching to me as like a performance, and I'm not good in front of crowds. And I also am not good at writing an academic style can do the research. But then my writing styles just more personal and has more voice than what academe IX usually have said, then I ended up working just kind of to make money. I got a job writing on the internet. And so I became a film critic for a while. Tell me about sort of the inception of the podcast because you've told the story many times. But I just I I love it. It's a fascinating one. I had a teaching job which was suffocating horrible for me not because of anything external. But because I, you know, people were always like you should try to teach. And so I I thought okay, I don't I don't want to. But I'll try it. And it was a huge mistake. So I was really unhappy just professionally and I didn't know what to do. And I just kind of started hearing the sound of the podcast in my head. And I decided to take the the spring break I had from teaching which was basically ten days where I didn't have to work and just try to make an episode of this thing that I had in my head and see if I could do it or see if I could teach myself how to do it. And so I did and I put it out. And I was just basically I'd love any feedback about this. And most the feedback I got was really positive and encouraging along with some constructive criticism. And so I just when I had time I started doing it. And then over this that summer when my semester ended I decided to just try to do it as a fulltime job for the summer and see what happens and really quickly got good press, and I joined a podcast network and the ball just kind of started rolling. You know, do primarily longer mini series about very specific topics on you, take several months sometimes longer to pull those together is that pretty similar to the process of working on a book like this. The book is just so much more extensive. Yeah. I mean, the podcast seasons. I guess it could be like each one could be a sketch for book. But I'm with the podcast, even if I take months to do research. I am really limited previously published. Sources I can't do they're kind of archival research that I did on the book. They've just really takes that long to do all the reading and writing about any topic. What was sort of behind the the shift to that miniseries format because originally the show was, you know, single or two part episodes about like a smaller topic. And now you've sort of evolved into this. We're going to have a theme, and then tell smaller stories within that team. So what was behind that? It just makes it easier to manage the research. It's much harder to start all over again with a new topic every week 'cause I do the research all by myself, you know, and so it's it's just like a lot. And there's a lot of movies to watch a lot of reading to do. And so it's easier if I can kind of focus it on a few topics so that it's just not so many different things to research in the process of sort of working on the show or working on this book. Is there a movie that you had like maybe not heard of her didn't have a great reputation that you were blown away by like now is one of your favorites? Well, I think in in the book might be there to focus on the book. There's a movie that I had never heard of called wait till this sunshine Nellie starring Jean Peters. Who has Howard Hughes's? Second wife, and yeah, it's just like a crazy melt lick melodrama about. America, the beginning of the twentieth century and the small town, and this guy who marries this woman play by Jean Peters and just lies to her in lies to her in lies to her until she finally cracks, and then she immediately gets punished in a horrible way. And I never heard of the movie until I started researching Jean Peters. I was writing the gene Peter section of the book last summer, which was also when twin peaks return was on the air. And so people were doing a lot of interesting writing about David Lynch, and I actually discovered the movie because somebody wrote something about how it was the first movie that David Lynch remember seeing and he says that he was a child asleep in the back seat of his parents car at the drive in and he woke up while this movie was playing and that makes us certain kind of sense because it's like a really lurid dark millet drama about like the American small town. Lynch doesn't say that. It's one of his favorite movies or anything. It's just like a formative memory and. Yeah, I mean, I'm. Presenting a screening of it in Toronto at the tiff cinematheque that they have there. I think it's a movie and not a lot of people have seen. It certainly doesn't get revived very often. So I'm really excited for people to see it never heard of it in the way, you wrote about it made me wanna see it like never shows on television. Now, I don't know how I'm going to see it, actually. I mean, I that's how I I I I bought a DVD on Amazon for like twelve dollars. This is actually going to going to dovetail nicely with something a tangent. I kinda wanna go on that that may be disagree with. I think about when I was a teenager and started really getting into movies, and especially classic movies. If I want to see two dozen Kane, I could walk into any video store rent citizen Kane. And now if I wanna see citizen Kane's, certainly, I think I can rent it on Amazon or whatever. But it feels like there's a new barrier. Now, you know, if it's just not on that flex or if it's not on Hulu or something like that. And I'm wondering if you have similar feelings on that. Or if you think I'm being too pessimistic. It's frustrating, certainly like. Luckily, there is still a place in Los Angeles cut it at Brandt Saturday matinee which is pretty incredible. It's it's a functioning video store. But then also a lot of the stuff they have our bootlegs DVD's made from people taping movies off of TV they have everything or almost everything. So that's a really good resource for me. But I know that in most parts of the country people can't just like walk into a place to get stuff. And and then it if even if you can track down a DVD that you can buy it becomes prohibitively expensive. So yeah, it's frustrating. And I think that like it makes me sad that nobody is interested in preserving our of physical media because I do think it's really imported and I hope that universities start taking up the mantle of doing that. I mean, personally like this is slightly separate, but I'm trying to create a collection a complete collection of confidential magazine, which is no library archive in the world. As far as I can tell has one that like some libraries have a few copies here are there. It's because people thought like that. Magazine was trash and certainly likes. It is a trashy scandal sheet. But it's still a piece of history, you know. And so I'm just I just buy up issues on EBay, and I'm trying to collect a complete collection. And I think that people just threw a VHS tapes. Like, we're shifting away from DVD's two digital stuff to the cloud with digital stuff. Like, the rights change all the time. You know? So there's no stable archive at all. No. And you think like all the movies ever made very few made under VHS even fewer made it onto DVD fewer on our on streaming. Now, do you see a a way to reverse that trend? I don't know. I think that money has to be put into the idea of archiving, and I know that there are people in contemporary Hollywood that want to do that. But it's just there's not enough of a groundswell. And I mean Hollywood needs to get better at preserving its own history. Anyway possible it's always been a problem. Obviously most. Silent films that were made don't exist anymore in any form. But what's interesting is that there are a lot of movies starring major stars made by major directors that are just not available. What's the lost movie? The you would most love to see. Oh, gosh. I don't know. I don't know that I have like a great white wheel or anything. But like every time I'm working on a podcast episode. Like it's frustrating that I read about movies that I can't see I mean right now, I'm working episode about this Mexican actress lucasville as and she made a movie, I think nineteen forty two called ladies day where she plays a Mexican actress who marries a pitcher for the Red Sox, and he immediately gets the yips like he can't pitch anymore, and so the other team wives kidnap her and as a baseball fan, and as somebody who's researching villas like I really wanna see this movie, and as far as I can tell it's never been released on DVD. It's not available anywhere. And as we record this threat socks are playing the dodgers in the World Series. So it's timely. Do you still obviously, you still go out and see movies? But like how often do you see something new in theaters? Maybe once a week once every couple of weeks. I mean, I'm not at all interested in like superhero movies or anything like that. So I just I don't see everything I don't really I don't really care about horror movies. So there's a lot of stuff that gets put out that. I'm just not interested in. What are what are maybe some misconceptions? You had perhaps in researching the book that you found overturned by the process of writing it. I don't know that I really have misconceptions. But I guess the biggest surprise for me was reading idle Pinos FBI file because the there's a very good biography of her that talks about how she was really against McCarthyism and how she worked to try to protect her friend John Garfield from being blacklisted, but her F B I file makes it very clear that she volunteered information to the FBI about actors who. Were blacklisted. So you know, that was disillusioning and difficult to deal with one of the other things that I really like about the puck is hit introduced me to some of these people like Jean Peters. Terry Moore, I'd heard of Jean Peters. But like, I know anything about her who was kind of the of those ten women, you mentioned who is who were some of the ones you like learn the most about we talked a little bit about Terry. Moore. The others in there. I didn't really know anything faith Derek going in. So is exciting to see some of her movies. And learn more about her experiences. Jean Peters and Terry Moore for sure I mean, all of them. I learned things that I didn't know about what's a Hepburn is somebody who has such a huge profile with something you learned about her that you hadn't known before. I didn't know that. There was public conversation about her sexuality in the nineteen thirty interesting that there, I mean, it was coated. But I mean, the in magazines there was conversation about whether or not she was going to be a, quote, unquote, real woman, and, you know, heavy implications that she needs to find a male partner or like the movie goers are going to turn against her. That is one of the more fascinating. Sections of the book is where you talk about speculation about Hughes own sexuality. Some of the other women in the circle sexuality like Cary Grant, sexually how how widespread was that. How much were people talking about that was sort of relegated to certain publications or was it all over? I think the nineteen thirty is most of that speculation was about Katherine Hepburn at least publicly now, there's a great deal of writing about Cary Grant. And Howard Hughes that say that they were bisexual or in the case of Cary Grant. I mean, I think that there is widespread speculation that he was primarily a gay man who married women, and you know, I mean for every piece of writing that claims these things there are people who forcefully deny it. And so I'm not that interested in like trying to prove who people who are long dead actually had sex with an I actually don't think it matters that much, but what matters to me. Your is interesting to me is the fact that there has been speculation and how this impacts. The way we see the work one of the you mentioned faith, americ-, correct? Yeah. And she met Hughes when she was sixteen and then became engaged to him throughout the book their stories about like teenage girls who are set up with much older men who date much older men getting gauge to much older men. How common was that in the in that era? Well, in Hollywood, I mean, a lot of going back to the very beginning of the medium teenage actresses worked and pretended to be dolts. And so I think that once you're fifteen years old, and you're like playing somebody's wife onscreen, there's not such a bridge to being somebody's wife in real life. But I mean, I haven't done like a study of you know, how many sixteen year old girls slept with forty year old men will that became less common. Certainly we still have like twenty five year olds playing fifty year, olds wives. But like what was the win was that kind of change because I had. I had not really thought about that spot. I mean, isn't there like a story of Melanie Griffith being like sixteen years old and twenty five year old Don Johnson, a you know, I mean, maybe it wasn't that long ago. Interesting. Well, you said that you read the audiobook of the book, what was that process? Like, I know that if I read anything I've written too much I start to lose my. Recording audio book as a lengthy thing. So so tell me about like did you just hate the book by the time we're done with that now? But I think I thought I was going to be prepared for it. Because I the my podcast is like what I do. I write like four to six thousand words about something. And then I read it. But of course, the book is longer than that. And it was a longer process. It took about it took eight days of spec cross two weeks, and it was really physically joining I didn't hate the book. But I did catch like some Typos. And you know, I spelled somebody's name wrong. And I like know didn't realize it until I was reading the audiobook. And so I had to scramble to make sure that that got changed before the final book went to print which it did. But yeah, it was mostly just like physically demanding. And it would be a thing where I would work for like five to six hours a day on the audiobook and be done by three. But then would be so tired that it would be difficult to do other work that day. So. So yeah, it was just it was a difficult two weeks. But I hope people like it, and I hope I don't sound too stupid. You have written other books before this book. But this is by far your longest most research. Most all of that. What's something you learned over this process that now you feel like you didn't know before? But you'll always milk going forward. If you read other books, I guess I just know that I can do it of really when I turned in the first draft of the book about a year ago. I sent an Email to my editor that was like, I don't even know if this is a book, so please tell me if it is. And so I guess I'll have just more confidence. We're kind of coming into the end of the show. But I do want to ask you mentioned looking at Howard Hughes life through the prism of. Now. We know a lot more about head injuries. These these people that we keep returning to whether they're stars or former presidents or things like that with greater understanding of science, or whatever we know from the present, what is sort of what to use the value of continuing to go back to people who've been written about a lot and looking at them through fresh is the tagline from podcast is that the secret and or forgotten history of Hollywood's first century, and like the secret history part is often just looking at things from a feminist perspective. And being able to understand things like that happened in the past from our modern perspective of things like consents and feminism, and you know. A lot of film history is written from the perspective of white male dominance. And it's just interesting to be able to look at things in a different way. No, you mentioning that. You know, made me think about some of the. The just quick sketches of like women who like flip through the book for maybe a couple of pages. And they're just somebody like I think there's one who's like an opera singer from or something like that from from Europe like what helped by sort of existing these figures thinking about them. Maybe this is the same question asked in different way. But you know, just sort of that idea of looking at them not as subjects of Howard Hughes story, but looking at them as people in their own right as the center of their own stories. Well, they are people, you know, they all had their own stories. I mean, I think that, you know, the whole project of the book is like in a book about Howard Hughes or any other like, quote, unquote, great man, the women are treated as collateral and each one of those people live their own lives and had their own stories and were human beings. And I just think that that's fascinating. We end every episode by some of the same questions. I'm gonna ask you some of those. I'm gonna start with looking at the pop culture sphere TV movies books music. What's the last pop culture thing you did? And what did you think of it that I did whether whether you went to see a movie or watch the TV show or album, or whatever I guess the last thing I did was the night before last. I watched this Lupe villas movie cla Mexican Spitfire, which was one of seven movies, she made playing the same character where she's a Mexican singer who marries like a boring white American businessmen who was previously engaged to a boring white lady who like the boring white lady, basically spends all seven movies scheming to get her man back. So. I don't want you to spoil the this episode of Puckett's, but Lupe villas fascinating to me. Like have you enjoyed spending time with her fun? Next up is a who's the writer or journalist or critic that you've learned the most from living or dead that you'd never met. Well, I don't know if it would be a single thing. But I feel like my writing was most influenced by reading spin magazine in the ninety s they I really devoured that magazine when I was a teenager, and I just feel like I kind of internalize the writing style of everybody who wrote for it or loved spin. Yeah. Yeah. I subscribe to my parents were very confused 'cause I lived in the middle of nowhere. How about this? And finally, what would you say we we talked earlier about your first favorite movie was the wizard of Oz. But what? Now, if somebody comes up to you and says, what's your favorite movie like what you're two or probably have five or six because I at least do the number one in it's been number one for twenty years and sounds too topical. But the nineteen fifty four version of a star is born directed by George q and starring Judy Garland. What is about that one the drowsy too? It was I just I I watched it when I was about twenty years old, and I was really drawn into it emotionally. And in terms of the craftsmanship, and I read this book at the time by Ronald Haber about the making of the movie, and then its destruction by Warner Brothers and its reconstruction by Ronald saver who is the curator of film at the LA county museum of of our and it just like it tied together for me. So many of my interest about film about the inner workings of Hollywood. And I'm really interested in as the example of Hollywood making movies about Hollywood that pretend to be critiquing the industry from the outside while at the same time shoring up the audiences, devotion and fascination with Hollywood movies. So it's one of those things where I never it never loses its attraction to me every time. I watch it. I'm kind of stunned by a new Judy Garland's phenome-. Linnet like that movie too. Yeah. The book is seduction Karina Longworth. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Interesting show, it will be greatly improved. If I talked like an old time radio reporter, and like this all the time in Hollywood is a wonderful place to work. Yeah. We're not gonna do that. I'm Todd van or if the host and executive producer of the show producers bridgette Armstrong, our editors Griffin Tanner, our executive producer of Audiovox media as Nishad Kirwa are sound designers, miles designs. Thanks, Victor, where Kristal Stevens Georgia Kelly production managers, Alex, all right or production coordinators carry Clements our studio audio engineering, thanks to the rebel talk network than I recording engineer is earning Tato remember to rate review and subscribe to this show on apple podcasts Spotify or Stitcher or wherever you find find podcasts. If you have something you want to say to me, you know. In a public review? You can Email me Todd at box dot com. Can Email the whole show, I t y podcast e podcast at vox dot com. And also tweet at me at TV OT to vote we are going to be back next week next week is thanksgiving. So there's we're going to do our thanksgiving up from last year. But you're gonna love it. 'cause it's one of our best episodes so tune back in for that. While you're cooking Turkey, and until then I don't know. I think it works. I think it's a good voice. I think I think people would like it if I did this mall. Don't you? Yeah. I shouldn't do that ever again.

Howard Hughes Hollywood Katherine Hepburn playboy Karina Longworth Terry Moore Jean Peters Judy Garland golf Los Angeles baseball Todd Vandort editor Green America spin magazine carino producer Raymond Fowler
Getting Diagnosed with Annie Segarra, Romantic Jealousy and Going Back To School

Just Between Us

1:13:02 hr | 1 year ago

Getting Diagnosed with Annie Segarra, Romantic Jealousy and Going Back To School

"Szeswith swinging uh-huh uh-huh I'm Alison. I'm a writer director. And one time Miss Hannigan and a summer camp production of Anne and I'm Gabby done I'm a writer by CON by icon. Wink and I travel the world behind Evelyn. No you don't yes I do. You can't lie in the opening. Prove that don't okay. I'm sorry you're not allowed to lie. No I know how much easier it'd be if I could lie in the opening. Well why don't you. I'm running out of ways to describe my Sino and so this is how I have gamed the system so we're just going to live from now on. I mean you know what. Do whatever you feels right to you. And that's the truth and that's the truth and I think we've established that here on this podcast. This is just between between us. A variety show filled with heartfelt advice. Ridiculous Games and brutal honesty. It's in the description. You cannot lie so I built my a hot air balloon in one thousand nine hundred eighty degree turn your mic off. Why does every school do any? I wasn't school. It was summer camp. Yeah A- and I don't know it's just like a good time but I can't sing so I just sort of spoke through my songs. Did you do like a New York accent when you played Miss Hannigan. Don't remember number. I just know that that was the highlight of my acting career that summer because the first term I was A lead role in little abner. Wow them and and then I strolled into any having missed the auditions because I had left in between the terms to to go. Mikhail Ripken with my dad and and they still gave me the lead and people were people. Were upset because you you felt entitled. You can just stroll in Cairo insane. I don't make the decisions. They gave me the role. Why were you just? That was very good. I wanted to be a child actor so bad too and I'm resentful and my parents parents didn't let me do it. I think thank God. They didn't let me do it. I know but but It would my life be that different probably. Yeah well. You're assuming that you would have have been successful that I would have been good at being a child of book stuff versus just going out on a cute. No I was really cute. I would have definitely really been booking excited for this week's episode. We have any cigar. We're going to be asking some tough questions about disability and the long road to diagnosis and and later we'll be discussing going back to school as an adult. But I hid it. Sh- the Laura Italy. God what a beautiful name. What a beautiful place right? Her question is this. How can I handle jealousy? ooh Some more info. I'm twenty three and I've been in a serious relationship for a year now with an awesome guy. I had a huge crush on for months. There is just an issue jealousy. I don't know oh how to handle it. It's not something about someone who I find specifically threatening to our relationship nor is it cost for my boyfriend's behavior since he's nothing but loving and caring and has made one hundred percent unclear. How committed he is to US still? I can't help feeling insecure. I have recurring nightmares about him deciding he wants to date other girls. I even get annoyed when my female. Oh friends are nice to him. Any time this happens. I go and ask my boyfriend for reassurance about his feelings which he's always ready to give but I'm afraid one day he'll get tired of this dynamic. What do I I do? I know I have a history of abandonment issues do trauma from childhood and I'm addressing them therapy. Is there any other advice you can give me on. This therapy is would have been my number one suggestion him. But you're already doing it. I I feel like I am a recovered Jealous Maniac yes short. I'm in recovery from Jealousy. Yeah the area where I used to be super super jealous girlfriend in. I am convinced that they were GonNa meet somebody else or they will lead me for someone in I had to really realize that it had nothing will. Sometimes it had something to do with the guy but overall it was mostly my own issues news and it was about me not having confidence in myself And also not not trusting the words that someone was saying to me. Yeah and so. I think that there's plenty of people who will make you feel jealous. And it's on them and their behavior is inappropriate appropriate and they're pushing boundaries and they're doing things that make you uncomfortable And in that case that's an issue with your partner and your relationship and something you have every right to feel feeling to bring up and maybe you're not compatible exactly but if you know that it is not on your partner at all that this one hundred percent just something that is coming from inside you. Do you really have to look at that and figure out like why. Why do you assume that someone is going to want to leave you? Also also you have to extend the same person hood to them as you extend to yourself. I know we think of ourselves is very complex and complicated people and we don't often extend that same inner life to others so like if you know if you if you're like Oh my God he's constantly thinking about leaving he's constantly thinking that he doesn't want to be with me. But then you know that your not like that or you think about like well. I'm not sitting here constantly thinking about leaving. I'm not if I text a a male friend. I'm not thinking about like how I'm GonNa fuck that friend and leave my boyfriend like you have to extend like the same a bit like way that you look at yourself to him. Maybe he's just sitting on the couch watching TV and I remember sometimes being like Oh my God. He's totally thinking that he wants to. He's so bored with me and he's leaving but like when you're sitting on your couch watching TV you're just sound out watching TV like often. It's not that deep and being jealous is not something that will prevent cheating exactly so like you obsessing about this. This thing isn't going to determine his actions if anything I think you're right. And then it might ultimately drive him away because it isn't fun to be with a partner who constantly needs reassurance and it's also so not fun to have a partner who's accusing you of stop right like. I know that you're saying you're not accusing him. But I would hear it as like what do you think of me right and like you have to just just know that if they choose to do that if they choose to cheat on you if they choose to act inappropriately that's on them you have no control over zone eligible for it and like and and if and when that happens then you will deal with but don't worry about something until it's actually happening. Yeah a relationship could fall apart for any reason. If you're so fixated on like like well I hope he doesn't cheat. I hope he doesn't cheat. There's could be communication breakdowns. There could be some sort of thing where one of you gets a job and suddenly a long distance and it doesn't work. I mean there's just so many reasons that relationships fall apart so worry about those instead opted. That doesn't behoove you to worry about any. I know I have a thing because I don't don't necessarily feel jealousy in this way which is I mean? I feel jealous like I definitely feel jealous of people's exes more than I feel all of like people in their life like I feel like if they're talking to their ex. I'm jealous because that person already has like a place in their life and they already loved them but if it's a new person I'm like well if you're gonNA leave me for new person than you were gonNA leave me anyway. I also think that you have to stop yourself from vocalizing. These fears So like like. That's behavioral therapy is like you. You want to go to him and you want him to reassure you when you want to bring up every single fear that you have and you have to not let yourself do that. You have to self soothe you have to self soothe. It's not on him to fix this feeling in you. And that's the thing I've really worked on like I. You know in the past like if my boyfriend if a boyfriend had brought up a new female coworker. They're sitting next to this girl at work in like whatever I would immediately be like. Let me see a photo of her and now I'm just like okay day like I just I don't let go there in my conversation with him. it'll just be like. Oh she called. Are you guys friends like yeah like she you know like I don't even let it slip that I'm thinking about the possibility of her. Viewing him in a romantic way at all. Yeah because then I'm giving into my anxiety I'm giving into my Dow and my worry and I don't WanNa vocalise it. I think it'd be really great exercise for you Aurora to make a pact with yourself to not bring your jealous feelings for a month Where like you know you are not allowed to express that you feel jealous? You can obviously feel your feelings. You can't control what you feel that you are not allowed to vocalise them or discuss discuss them with anyone else and I wonder if at the end of that month if they'll have left power over you. Oh because if you're not saying them they don't have power right. Oh that's interesting interesting because then it's just like your like this just in my mind. It's not real and all. Yeah and you're not just like giving life to it. Yeah because the more you saying out loud the more you're enforcing in your ahead that's true and then it's also a thing that you guys are talking about an it's an issue that's actually happening right because it's common. It's normal to feel jealous. It's normal to feel jealous. The real problem is is meeting it to be a thing every time. And let's say that this guy does cheat on you then you don't want to be with him anyway right so you have to assume that he is the guy that you like. He is the guy that you love us. The person you think he is and that person wouldn't cheat on you right. So what are you even worrying about you know like ah if that happens then like the only thing to want to want to know so that you can leave. This isn't if he is this person that you think he is than just like stop talking about it. Yeah because it's not doing anyone any good. Yeah you're making a problem where there isn't one I totally get it. Because I I've have like one hundred percent been there and I've I've poked prodded and I've you know all that let's your partner knows that you're insecure and like while partners will. Obviously I love you. If you're insecure it is like it can have the effect of making less desirable. Yeah but on top of that. You're just spinning a problem. Out of thin air. Listen to problem totally. And that's annoying. It's just like annoying. Yeah when a partner does that. This isn't happening. This isn't a thing and again you can not control other. The People Liking Your partner and other people flirting with your sweet. Now you have to trust that your partner will continue to behave appropriately right. Yes like it's not there's no reason and for you to freak out because someone else likes your partner like this medium Hotlanta and if he's not engaging in it there's nothing to worry about yeah we have always like stupid narratives that paint men as dummies who fall. I like stuff all the time like we need to make more like movies. Where men aren't like the victims victims of seduction and responsible for their own action? You know it's like we always painted as like this girl's GonNa take him away and it's like he has to do something he has agency exactly and also I mean maybe there could be a thing where the relationship is going really well and so you're just inventing something. Have you talked about that in therapy. Sometimes when a relationship is going really well and you just aren't anxious person you spin your wheels trying to be like what can I do to cause some sort of this happy exactly and you do deserve to to be this happy Aurora especially in Italy. So beautiful if you'd like to submit your international questions and to just between us at go dot com that's just between us. Pico de at G. DOT COM coming up next. We have an interview with any cigars. So stick around since we I get mouth-watering seasonal recipes and premeasured ingredients delivered right to your door with hellofresh America's because number one meal kit. They make cooking at home fun. Easy and affordable hellofresh cuts out stressful meal planning and prepping so you can enjoy cooking and get dinner on the table in just about thirty minutes or even twenty minutes with their quick recipe options. There's something for everyone including low Calorie Vegetarian and family friendly recipes every week. They've got more five-star recipes than any other meal kit. So you'll get something delicious and can finally break out of your dinner but hellofresh is designed to fit your lifestyle easily. Change Your delivery days or food preferences and skip a week. Whenever you need hellofresh can also help you eat more sustainably? In fact Televisa's carbon footprint is twenty five percent lower than store bought grocery made meals. I Love Hella Freshman using it for years They always have like a new ingredient that you would never think to put in You Know Oh like all of a sudden your burger has cheese in it or Sometimes honey is added to stop. And you're just like Oh my God. I never would have thought to do that myself. I love it. It's very quick and easy and there's minimal cleanup because all the ingredients are measured out perfectly. Go to hellofresh dot com slash between us ten and use code it between US ten during hellofresh New Year's sale for ten free meals including free shipping that's hellofresh dot com slash between us ten and code between US ten for ten free meals including free shipping makeup ageism racism. Wait beauty pageants modelling totaling. This is Karina Longworth host of you must remember this. We have a special eight part companion series coming January twenty. I called make me over in each episode. We will bring you a different story. Exploring the history of Hollywood's relationship with the beauty industry featuring writers and reporters known for their work at the New Yorker The New York Times and some of the leading lights of film twitter her make me over covers. Virtually the entire twentieth century from silent era weight loss surgery to the black beauty icon of the eighties and nineties. Who built a career after scandal? So join us. Won't you for make me over. New episodes will be released. East End. The you must remember this feed every Tuesday. Subscribe on the Stitcher APP. Or wherever. You find your podcasts Welcome back to just between us. It's time for the juiciest most scandalous controversial missile segment known to Allah podcasting to question this week on the pod. We have any cigar. Who is youtube conscious creator but also a person who talks a lot about disability diagnosis? And that's what we wanted to talk to you about so hello Anne Hi. So you're calling from Miami Yup Miami area now so I think we really wanted to talk about your your long path to diagnosis. 'cause it's tough to get diagnosed in general and it's really tough to get diagnosed when you're a woman And you kind of speak to that a lot through activism. So can you kind of just take us through that journey for you. You good Lord yes so I have a genetic condition meaning so have had it pretty much. My Tire. Life called Eller San Luis Syndrome And there's bunch of different types of ehlers download syndrome and we'll call it. EDS for short My type specifically is called classical Michael Type. How fancy I know? That's what I thought. It was like. How cute classical time like like they're supposed to be violins? Playing that's right. I know it was something that I experienced symptoms of very acutely when I was little like things that Basically the two people who were not inside of my body right everybody else in the world they saw me and they thought that I was just kind of like a Chubby out of shape. Kid like Because my face turn red really fast during physical activity or or because I couldn't hang onto the monkey bars For like more than a second or so like I just couldn't I couldn't do a lot of physical things like that Which everybody including my pe? He coaches were like okay. So you're a Panzi right like your back or whatever But never looked at any of those little small things as like a symptom of something else like I was like a wooded have asthma attacks Asthma attacks I would have so where I felt like my throat was closing and this would always happen. Like right on the like end of a coal ultimately right when I started actually seeking diagnosis. It didn't even happen Until a year ear into this very disabling chronic pain Used to work at a restaurant and I was like on my feet and wearing heels for like six to eight hours a day. That's mean no matter who you are right. But I didn't know that I was actually just talking about it in a recent video. That may let somebody else with my friend. Lolo and I was under the impression that every single person on this planet and also experiences chronic pain and I was just the only person who couldn't handle it so common. How old were you like when I thought that I was at least thirteen and when I was working like this this like turning point of like I should see a doctor when I was like twenty three so ten years you were like? I guess. Everyone's hurting yeah. 'CAUSE 'cause pain is so normalized you know especially for women and and and Anybody that's like not a man we're we're conditioned to believe that What's the what's the phrase Beauty is pain so that phrase so like like all these things I'm like. Oh so we're supposed to be in pain everything is supposed to hurt And I'm just the you know everybody else's right I am a psy- I can't handle anything or whatever eventually what was happening was my my standing limits With the pain felt like is I thought they were like. I thought that was like a cracked bone at the bottom of my And so I just again under that normalization of pain. I I kept doing things like oh I must be too weak to wear heels so let me bed. My boss nuts worth heels anymore aware pretty boots to work like. Please don't make newer heels anymore and like I did as much Adapting a likelihood beyond the exchange of heels is to boots. I asked my boss. Can I use a stool at hostess. Dan and even then what was happening was wow. I can't like it's it's hurting me. Even to just like walk somebody to their table to to given their menus So that's when I started investigating and that was a that was a big process of like I had to go to at least three doctors because the first one was like I don't see anything wrong. Just go home. Put your feet up. followed by a couple of other doctors. Who Like misdiagnose me and signed me up for an operation on my leg to like a fix? The Smith diagnosis diagnosis. They mistake those me With flat feet at reason why they thought I had flat feet feet is because so. EDS connective tissue disorder where it affects. It affects pretty much every part of your body but it the most people notice it I in their joints because their joints are too lax. So the glue. That's supposed to be holding your body together. They it's not holding your joints together properly So they're like that's why they might appear flexible. which is the wrong word? But you know I always use it for simplicity's sake people who are not familiar. So so what happens is like when they do the x ray or standing up so when I stand up the joints my feet. which if you don't know there's a lad of joints it's in your feet? They all kind of collapse into the ground Because the because right the joints are not strong enough to hold their our position they all just kind of bend downward with gravity So the x Ray. It looks like five feet. But if I'm like you you know lying down and taking an x Ray. That's not what the X. Ray is going to look like so they went in and they like they did a bunch of stuff like sliced into my cab and like surgery yeah whisk the thing is like because of that surgery I got more clues like doctors. Here here's the the fun fact about this whole thing is the doctors were never ever ever GonNa frequent help me like I had to do it myself. I had to research it myself. I I took the clues together. I had to be like you know the that. Like what is that. The Internet meme of the guy was like the post. Its on the cork board trying to connect all the dots together. Ah I had to be that person I had to like. Figure it all out by myself when I had that surgery. I got a couple more clues which which is So part of eds can be that anesthesia doesn't really work on you and local anesthesia and pain medicine. Like doesn't really work on you. Like freaking out. So it wasn't an issue of like. I woke up or anything during the seizure. They expected the anesthesia to last me for the night in terms of pain relief but when I woke up I felt everything as though I didn't have any anesthesia. Oh so So I was like I as I slowly waking up I- I slowly started like realizing how high pain levels were to the point that bought by the end of the evening. I was like screaming until I was too tired to scream anymore. More than I was. Just a like this silent shock like. I don't know how like what that's called but I'm still in pain but my body so exhausted of of making noise so I can only just open my eyes and feel the pain okay horrify. There's this thing that the physicians don't like when patients Google or research into their own symptoms because they find it annoying but then there's this thing where women specifically women of Color Colors specifically also disabled people have to work so hard to be listened to and to be heard and to get the right diagnosis. So can you speak a little bit about about that. Duality in my experience. So many especially in vol being like women so many people only benefited from doing doing research on their own. Because it's not like they're doctor was GONNA do it for them. It's not like it's not. We're not living in a world of house. M D where Orion doctors like you come in you say of a problem and your doctors like I will not stop. I figure out what is wrong with you no way. Hey they I tried so. Many doctors be almost just cruelly dismissive of whatever I brought to the table and also there's so many specialists no one is looking at the whole picture. A lot of the time. Yeah you have to like I before before doing this before. Like starting these. He's medical investigations and what was happening in my body I really thought that the world is like the rose by Dr House and you had like a team of people that like You know we're going to try and help you figure out what was wrong But I was like astonished at the just the fact that that I would have a specialist and they're all separated and they don't communicate so we saw there that that for me I was really. My doctors are not going to communicate. Its mind line job. It's it's me the six persons job to like continue to like play Messenger through all these doctors And try to piece the puzzle together Myself Yourself. I found eighty s on my own and then I started to bring that diagnosis to doctors saying. Hey I want to be tested for it and and again I was met with cruel. This mission With doctors saying things like The symptoms that you're describing or not possible I've had doctors. There's just laugh at me and say you know you don't have that And all you do just do a blood work to figure it out in my case. Yes because there's so many different types and unfortunately the most common type it doesn't have a blood test for it yet. You can the only way the most common types The only way to get that one diagnosed diagnosed as hyper mobile. Eds H eds You have to find a doctor that knows about it enough to clinically diagnose. Not right there in the office like just feel like you this Simpson Simpson and like count on a list of like. I think it was twelve. I don't remember And then at the end of the questionnaire INARA go well. That's what you have right. Yeah so this is the thing that you talk about a lot is that is that. There's this idea that doctors are all knowing God's and that civilians peons and that oftentimes doctor will not have even heard of. EDS or their disabilities or there are a lot of diagnoses diagnoses. where the doctor hasn't even heard of this and and I think like the the thing that people are nervous to do is to advocate for themselves? I think people say well if the doctor says that's not it then that's not it and it's like how do you how do you speak up for yourself. How do you tell people that are going through this like how? How do you notice? Speak up for yourself. In my case it was the fact that I was so while research I bet I did have The confidence to kind of be like My doctor occurs wrong period. Such a big journey just to get this big umbrella diagnosis. But there's still so many co morbid conditions burning stuff that's related to it That are undiagnosed but that I experience on a daily basis Like and I I'm not officially diagnosed with pot. which is very annoying? Because that's one of my more disabling conditions boxes pastoral or the static tech of Cardio Syndrome and What it means is that my blood vessels they They don't don't work too gray. And it's part of what limits my ability to stand up or even raise my arms up high or being hot temperatures because it'll ask eh trigger migraines nausea and sometimes fainting spells And so I deal with this on a daily basis but every time I tried to get tested for it I get rejected so Different things a big again against the issues like not finding doctors that like know enough I forgot it to to test before it And and then one of the things that actually scares me is that the test itself could make me sick or one of the first test is Not the first test but one of the test is called the table test. Where you you lie down on the table that tilts up and down and basically like I said the blood vessels they they're kind of swooshing your blood around your body too fast. And that's what makes you so sick and faints a and whatever ever So they'll slip you upside down than right side up upside down right side up and basically make you sick in order to prove that you're sick So and I feel like if I do a test like that I'm like you're gonNA knock me out for a while and and I don't have time for that time to make myself sick To prove to you that that is what I have I can tell you. That's what I have So so I I'm like that was that's one of the bigger ones There's also like cognitive and mental health stuff that that I don't have diagnosis for are and like so. I can still relate to that undiagnosed feeling. How do we fix the relationship between disabled old people and doctors like how do we had? What what is what's missing I rolled my eyes and like oh well well. I think the first thing would be for doctors to be humble enough to take the critique. There's been so many like there's been a few different You know social media campaigns trying to get doctors attention it was a Hashtag. Doctors are Dickhead. I heard yes and that was I saw saw that and I and I saw that there was like equal pushback because I this is not nearly close to what I see you and other other disabled people go through but I talked about on a different podcasts and experience I had in the emergency room where I was basically laughed at ignored for hours while I had like a terrible migraine and and the response that I had someone respond being like Europe fucking pieces shed who doesn't respect doctors and you don't know what doctors go through and you don't know what emergency urgency people like room. People go through and I was like no. I don't but I also know that like I'm in pain on a mattress while a bunch of people stand over me and laugh like yeah so I want to send her stand that the the big problem there is. The power dynamic is how much power doctors doctors have in the lives of person and how they're neglect Is I don't know we don't. We're in a time where the Internet is so new and the Internet has taught us so much especially because of how we communicate with each other social media and through like Hash tags like got and So but what. We're seeing through that information right now. Is that medical neglect is more common than than people who feel safe going to the doctor right And and huge problem it's a power dynamic And it's a conversation that happened so much before the play feel assured enough to say that it's more common than not because when these kinds of Hashtag campaigns come around it you struggled to find one person who does not have a story of some kind of medical trauma that involved. Dr Being neglectful of being dismissive being gas flighty You know And the one doctors the daycares right so that was a I agree. So we're using some vulgarity there but what I thought was really funny was that these conversations have been happening waiting for years on the Internet. And it was only with the vulgarity that I guess some egos were You know knocked around a little and doctors did get get into the conversation but only proved the point right the point because they they then created a Hashtag to humiliate patients cultivations our deck has were they were they wrote stories about how patients annoy them. it's such a vulnerable position position to be going to the doctor and I don't. I don't think that's appreciated. Like even I and speaking of not being believed in stuff I mean I think it would serve People to examine their sexism and racism. Even like I've seen a lot of stuff recently about like fat phobia in terms of people right saying being told to lose weight and exercise and then it turns out they have cancer. Yeah I was just about to say that because that is one of the bigger ones like anything else affect phobias so so like prevalent in the medical field and so so many times and I see it and I see how harmful it is. Somebody will see it in the lives of people that I care about. That are very close to me. I've seen in my own life. How they put you on a scale see a number and then they tell you that in order to be healthy you need to get it down to would different number But nothing else whenever It happened to like relatives of mine. They come to me with stories like that. Ah Okay but did they say anything else about your actual health that they'd like talk about like your cholesterol health or anything else yelling. Having no just a number on the scale and they've decided that you're not healthy but they have to go off like or they're wearing actual symptoms. Yeah Yeah Yeah. And that's the other way. Absolutely is that bill. They so many people who are fat they They are dealing with realize illnesses. The doctors refused to look at because they'll blame any and any Disease either illness or condition on their weight right so it's it's a huge struggle again it's And I'm sure if we were to speak doctors which which I have you know there. There's definitely validity like oh they're burnt out there like right. Industry industry is is like Let's put credit where it's due right. They're they're overworked. Right as a bunch of a bunch of a bunch of elements that like makes mix their mental health and their You know what's going on with them absolutely valid however Some some kind kind of justice needs to be reached for all parties involved because people are sick and dying and dying like needlessly because of the neglect of doctors I was saying I. I was going through the medical system for like three years trying to find diagnosis. Even trying to find it. I found it like. How did you finally get the diagnosis? So I had accepted that I was in so much pain that I couldn't stand up for more than like and then it's a five minutes at a time I said fine I'M GONNA buy myself but you hundred wheelchair. I'm going to get around the world and wheelchair and I will figure out a new life. I will stop working in the Food Service Industry and sign myself a desk job. But if I want to do that I need to figure out my chronic pain in my back so when I went to see like Some kind of a neurosurgeon signing person. I was imploring with them. Like I think it'd be the s ask They were one of the people who set it. All they said your symptoms you're describing it is possible no it if you have that You know and then he had some kind of heaven remember. What the scan was? I'm I x Ray or something of my of my. Si joint and he he was really surprised to see that like essentially like all my joints were extremely far apart and he didn't understand how is walking on my SI joint right with in my joints being so separated Look like I'm walking on the list located hits right So I'm pointing at the scan like Sir Sir Sir I. That is like another dose another clue. That's another symptom of what I'm telling you. I think I have UGH and again. He likes shrugged me off then scare the book Jesus out of me because his follow up to you. Don't have that but here's what I WANNA do. I would like to set you up for an operation to use your joints together So when I heard that I had a huge meltdown in his office just sorta like sobbing and screaming and slamming my my hands on the desk like screaming things. Like you'd rather risk me being horizontal for the rest of my life than listen to me Because because that was scary he'd already given me like some injection. Like I think it was. I think it was steroids. And if it was that I leave steroids. royds break up Collagen the Collagen that I had that it's already defective. It would have been spread apart and it cut me horizontal bed for like ten. They told him that happened. That's one of the things you said. That's not possible with happens but it is if you have defective Paula. Jones your experiences into happened right right so I I was up in all the third. Call me a liar and Well that breakdown led to to a lady doctor coming in And asking why was crying and he continues like he has no shame in like muffing he he rolled his eyes throws up his arms. Up in the air And says she thinks she has ehlers download syndrome. Like I like you know like I have no idea what I'm talking about pretty much. Yeah and it's all your doctor said I never heard of that And she she instead of talking to him. Talk to me and says can you Case offer mad likes to look at us and I'm like through sobbing tears like right right now. And she's like it's okay honey. I got it and finds that he likes just briefly skins the the description of it and that she looks up the scan and the dude the sitting behind this desk in this long white co- and says she could have this now. My God bureaus is fine. I'll send her to geneticists which is what I was asking for the whole time and I finally laid take that then? This process takes a whole `nother year 'cause like to see it takes like half a year than the testament than the test to get. Bread gets like another half a year it was the star and So but finally like you know affirmation geneticist and I have my friggin three three inch binder full of stuff and and then ultimately you know like months and months and months of time went by And and yeah. She gave me the result and she liked. It was so weird because she kind of like skimmed over it or at least that's how I felt Because I just remember like she said it and I I lost the ability to like cognitively process anything so she kept talking and at the stock purview. Like wait wait wait so I have it right away Weird like just kind of a I. Guess the the only way I can describe it for now it's kind of that physical that physical Idea of like pushing a door really really hard and all of a sudden Somebody just kind of unlock the door and you fly through. Yeah did you go into that stupid doctor and tell him I. I don't know I was. I felt for a long time with the idea of doing that. But at the same time didn't really want to like I was in the head face like like I never wanna see your face again So think about that And being chronically overthrowing I have still assign they think about I have so much time to like. Think about everything not to say that. I'm not an extremely busy person because I am a lot of different ways but the isolation in which which I don't have to necessarily interact with people too often because of spending so much time like within the confines of my bedroom walls does leave as me with a bit of space and time to think about certain things And so even with doctors right like like I mentioned before I do try and like see the other side of things And not you know not move forward in my life with like hate in my heart about it. But I'm still eleo lead very angry about things and like you know slamming on the tables and demanding justice etcetera. I think we owe their like. You know the I wanNA see your manager sign off. Thank God you are like that is. I don't think you would have ever gotten the diagnosis diagnosis. It's crazy that that's what you had to do to get hurt. And that's the problem. Yeah I think there definitely needs to be there needs to be communication. There needs to be medical reform. Their needs needs to be so many changes in how we treat our doctors and how we I mean like doctors bosses and hospitals. Yeah We have been. I don't know for doing okay when we're just trying to do. Research advocate tours or selves There needs to be reformed changed and how doctors treat their patients now. They talk to their patients. They're like I don't know that they never had it but sensitivity training having some bedside manner. Right then not condescend and lock your patients. Are you kidding me. I think that's like the most basic the basic respect of a thing for Dr Not roll their eyes at a patient when their patient as saying I am mm suffering right. I can't believe that that's the thing I have to say. I can't believe that like a doctor ever GonNa do that but experienced at a handful a list of doctors who did that to me and my experience isn't isolated. My experience is a an extremely common one and that should be something that doctors Dr Year and are ashamed of and not like an old and I'm sure and I know I know there's these doctors Like I I struggled with talking about this because there are doctors in my family So again like why. I don't want to be like Adl title doctors. That's not that's not the end of the. That's not the finish line here the where we want to get to is that if you are one of the quote unquote good doctors doctors that you hold your peers accountable. That you that you're part of the atmosphere that you're part of the reform and you're part of making sure that patients are no longer harmed by medical neglect. Yes that is one hundred percent true so true that I have to ask if you WANNA play a game show the sharing all that. I mean it was amazing but I just have a strict order of things that we have to play to became show. This game show is called hypotheticals you and Gabby will be the contestants. I'm going to give you a series of hypothetical all situations. You can ask as many questions as you want and then I decide how it all ends our first game is would you stay there is any. Hey there is no way to. Would you stay with this cheater. Your significant other of thirteen years admits while sleep talking that they mixed up the address of craigslist ads and meant to go buy a couch and instead had a casual encounter with the Russian model. When you listen when you confront them about it the next morning they admit to everything in our so relieved you now know the truth? Would you stay with this cheater. They have mixed up addresses before Probably not you wouldn't stay with them I don't know Oh probably not. They said like the lack of trust thing that is also. Wow so they got there. They saw the couch wasn't for sale. But they I thought let me have sex with this person while the perseverance expecting them to have sex with them and they felt like it'd be rude to Tanaka through with. I'm sorry so you'd think someone who who has the fortitude to yell in a doctor's Office to get what she wants and needs would would be with someone who can even be like this. Is the wrong address. You know I have to ask the questions. It's the game I if my problem here is my partners inability to stand up for for themselves in a tough situation so I will be leaving our next game. Are you a terrible parent. Your child is afraid of flying fine but you really want to take them on vacation. Kay So one morning you drug them and get them on the flight. Oh my God. They don't wake up until you land in Bali in God are you a terrible parent. They will have to fly her weight. We don't have drugs in Bali. You couldn't bring them because of Customs. Oh my God how long the trip two weeks no. How long is the plane rows? I have no idea. I don't know ten hours. How old are they they are thirteen? Okay Yeah I can give them. This living fell on the way back. How how did how did you get a drug thirteen year old onto a plane because you just put them in a wheelchair and nobody asked a question? Wow any realistic realistic to you. I don't know pathetic goals so I'm not putting too much pressure on it. Does it seem like that would realistically stickler be the case. Come on no way back. They got away with it for a whole weekend. You know what that's fair after I do your is your kid. Happy to be in Bali. Yeah but the whole time. They're freaking out about having a fly back. I guess you live in Bali. Now you're a good parent and you live in Bali. Now you know what except that he got Sir final game would would you lie or tell the truth after months of having a crush on your co worker an endlessly flirting you to finally make out and it's terrible bowl. They are awful at kissing and have horrible breath when you out on a proper date and you decline they ask. Why do do you lie or tell the truth? Their breasts fish period period. Tell the truth you and tell them they're back kisser in their breasts. Smells like fish. Yes yes why because because you want to protect them from the next person or they're going to keep doing it over and over again. Oh I easy because because your ideas that this person will then go. Oh shoot I should learn how to kiss and also change toothpastes. They wouldn't it be just so devastated. Aided yeah you could have just said we work together I think. And what if you say. Hey Look I'm interested in you but these things we gotta work on these things you know. What a bad kiss with somebody and they smell like fish? You're not gonNA attracted it's an anymore you know you think you can have a really really bad. Make out with someone where they repulsed. You and then you get past that No no we've had this scenario actually. Has the situation like you never had a bucket or your life. I have have you have. I never told them. Now I mean but find having a hypothetical gets to be honest. I didn't realize I was just like I. Just like go. Sit them on foresaw. Hello this is you making up for that so random. If you were ghosted by anti now you know why your breath smells like fish. Thank thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story. Where can people find you? I'm on any Aleni on all things With depth with to ease in the middle all one for Anne and one for Elaine it And on Youtube as any Aleni as well thank you so much for talking to us you really really really appreciate it. It had funding so much having big around after the break. We'll be talking all about going back to school. Welcome back to just between us. It's time for XXXXX XXX man. You really let me hang in there for a second. I wanted to create suspense. And so this topic is actually huge for you. It is you want to discuss So we're recording this on December eleventh. So I made a decision only a few weeks ago that I was actually going to go back to school and get a masters in clinical psychology jeep with a focus on marriage and family therapy so tell us the lead up or tell us the you know the beginning so when I was born born I So this last year in terms of my career has not been what I would want it to be Most days as I hadn't nothing to do I was pulling my hair out. I was making a lot less money that had made in previous years. I went out with a book proposal. I really really loved and as of right now. Nobody has has wanted it. I you know I tried to pitch things. I pitched a movie a bunch I picked. You know like like I was I was trying but it was. It was not working out for me and I was getting more and more depressed and I was getting More and more stir crazy and I really felt like like I was just sort of sitting in my apartment wasting my life and my brain And so I really kind of tackled with this idea of kind of like entitlement element like entitlement that I was going to get a show like because I'm I'm good at writing and I'd had success in the past that like of course this was going to work offer me like of course I deserve a show. I deserved to be successful. And then I had to be like Alison. Actually you don't deserve anything like that's not how life works like yeah. There's plenty of super talented. creatives out there who just like will never even have as much success as I've already had like So much of this is luck so much as timing and I can no longer just sort of like sit around waiting to get that call that will like change my life So I kind of was like all right. What the fuck do I do And and I thought about other jobs that I could get without having to go back to school and that was pretty much advertising. Jor Okay you know because I'm not like I just have a degree in screenwriting. What am I gonNA do right And I kind of tested the waters with that and the more and more I thought about what that day to day work would be like it. Just like wasn't exciting to me wasn't a passion. Yeah like to me that felt like only giving up. Yeah and instead I really need to think about like what it is a different path that also want to go down And obviously mental health has been a part of my life since I was four years old I have dealt with many mental health professionals along the way so many of them have helped me so much. It's something I talk about all the time. It's something I've been writing about more for alleged therapists I love therapists and I part of this journey was that with this book. Proposal was about Oh dating with mental illness and a big issue with it was like me writing it not being a therapist right so like how do you write about mental illness without being an expert on the topic. Okay I have other therapists support for the project but it was always this issue of like but I'm not the expert and so I kind of got to the place where I was like. You know what I think I actually do want to be the expert. uh-huh oh and part of it was my therapist just like being really supportive of this plan and like we talked about it a while ago. Like months ago and she'd recommended A A program at Antioch which is not the one I ended up doing but was basically like look like just like look into it you you know and then like months later I was like sitting there and I was literally thinking about going back to school for to become a therapist and then she said you know you should really. You should really look into that school again. And at the same time I had been thinking that and I was like Oh okay and so I feel like I talk a lot about about on this podcast like waiting until the thing feels right to you. Yeah like you know. Like don't force something and a few months go. It felt like forcing it. I felt like I don't WanNa go to school. Yeah I don't want to study I don't want to have homework. It's it's weird to go back to school sitting in her office on that day when she said that in my body I felt yes really. Yeah I really didn't care about classes or homework or any of that. I mean believe me. I don't WanNa do it but it suddenly felt right to me. It didn't feel a thing. I was forcing and I think that there's a lot going on here in terms of going back to school like one is. It's not full time. It's not like I'm moving onto college. Campus and like goodbye goodbye my career goodbye writing. It's like an evening program which is really important to me and uh-huh it's only two days a week for for most of the year though it's like I can still very much have continued to pursue what I wanted to pursue while also. Oh kind of getting this. This backup plan And also I think figure out a way to combine my two loves in interest like now in theory. I'll be able to write but also right as a mental health expert. Yeah I'll be able to create but also create with this background in knowledge. I'll be able to to speak speak about this stuff. Not just my own experience but as a professional yeah so it felt like something that would really add to what I've already doing instead of like thinking of it like Oh my God. I'm giving up right right right and it's something that you you really care about like. Do you think you would ever be people's therapists. Yes so I ah in theory right now. It's like a mix of things but I am very interested in opening Like a private practice for teenagers. Oh yes so. But that's years away like it's GonNa take forever so yeah yeah yeah a big part of it is like also learning patients. You know that like for years. It's just been like oh I just gotta get like that one call from this network executive right and money and then I get whatever and now it's like oh I know that nothing will come of this for years yet and that is an investments a totally different mindset. And it's like a it's like discipline and patience and also believing in a decision because like I mean I can obviously drop out but it's like it's a big time decision and I think I I feel like I've always been someone who like took risks six and made the tough decision and like when after what she wanted and I felt like that wasn't me anymore that you weren't doing that. Yeah like I felt like because I'd had some success I'd become ham lake Like compliant or I just been entitled or I thought that things were just GonNa happen like I would develop and work on stuff. But it wasn't like hustling I wasn't like hustling Salaam wasn't using my brain to the full extent of my brain and so I was like you know what I think I have to fucking do this. I have to shake things up I have to like I have to take this leap of faith. I have to like force myself to to get into a place that's uncomfortable Because like every time in the past that I've made that decision it's like improve my life. Life Yeah Yeah so this is more I mean going back to school I think is sometimes viewed as as like you said giving up but but it's not it's like my friends of mine in who have gone back to school. It's it's to move forward. It's to make a change in enhance. Yeah I don't know why we view education or continued education or academia as something that isn't worthwhile to pursue like of course it is. I remember when I was like twenty one and my boyfriend was thirty. Yikes but he was great. He was kind of like didn't know exactly what he wanted to do. And and my parents keeping like. Why doesn't he go back to school and he kept saying? Oh a thirties. Like too old to go back to USC really not not right but again like I had this misconception. That like it's too old like you know like in pocket change at any time. But that's what's been so empowering about this decision is once I made the decision. I felt so much calmer I felt so proud proud of myself. I felt like Oh. I'm taking the power back. Yeah like I am no longer just like in this going down this river in this boat in like who knows knows what the fuck is going to happen to me. It's more like oh I bought like a steering wheel you know and like you have control over exactly. Was it like a tough process to to try to figure figure out where you want it to go or what program or no so. That's part of why this worked out for me. It was so easy to lie to this program. La We got a couple of weeks. Like I was like I had to like write an essay and likes to references. And that was it. It was so easy and you didn't take the GRE. nope didn't take Jerry barely had to do anything. But I mean the the hard part is the program itself like. Yeah the hard parts of program itself and the hard part is Not Being afraid of doing the application not being afraid of submitting it right and like trusting being that my brain will wake up and be able to work that way again. That is the thing because like starting to do classes and homework again is it's terrifying. I'm so afraid I honestly I'm not thinking about it that much because I don't WanNA freak myself out. Yeah but part of it is kind of fun like you get a notebook and a book and you go and sit in a classroom. And you're like a nerd take notes. Well that's what everyone's wants been saying to me about graduate schools completely different than college or high school. Because you're in a different place you appreciate learning in a different way. Yeah and you're doing what you WANNA learn about out it's so focused and like specific to your interests and what you want to do and so it's like it's completely unlike college and I'm hoping that that's true true. Yeah I think part of what helped me was not over thinking the decision. Yes and just being like well this this makes sense and so therefore I shall do it instead of like pouring over the course list and being like oh no this classes statistics. Yeah I like. I'm like okay. Well when I have to take satistics I I have to take this ticks. Yeah I think they really have a limited view of who they are as people or what they're capable of doing like I couldn't possibly ably go back to school. I'm not this type of person but like you decide who you are. That's huge. That's really what I was trying to articulate earlier. Was that like whenever I've pushed the boundaries of WHO. I think that I am. That's where I feel like I flourished the most and I feel like I haven't done that in a while I was in a Rut and I had to do something like who the fuck knows tomorrow. I get staffed and I have to like defer my school and I'm maybe like one year I get an opportunity and I ended up not finishing the program like I have to also be okay with that. Yeah I have to be okay with the fact that I don't know what's going to happen but that I'm like I'm at least mixing things up in control taking control and setting myself up to have a backup plan because a lot of people can just like pursue their passion for years and like I think they're fine just like not fine but like they'd rather drive lift. Keep auditioning then figure out a second career. That would take up their life life and I realize I'm not that person like I can't live like that like I need stability and if I'm unable to find stability in The entertainment industry than I need that backup to feel safe and luckily you have something else that you feel passionate about. Yeah like you don't. That was part of it yet. I mean I like super passionate about the years of schooling and clinical hours. I'm going to have to do like I'm not like are you going to be Dr Raskin Skin. No it's not. It's not a doctorate. Oh how much I know about it that I like. Are you a doctor now. I like call you. I'm like I have a rash. You're like I am in school for family family therapy. I'm not a doctor but I just think that it's like I. I'm trying to not be like closed minded about what I can do with this degree. And Yeah Yeah. That's helping me a lot of thinking of it as supplemental versus like completely giving up and changing my life path. Yeah I mean you're not even moving. Yeah I'm not moving just going at night. I my mom says now I could be like Dr Phil. Oh have a show where I'm an actual purse like an expert burder professional again. I can speak to these things that I care about in know about personally on like a more global level. I guess you're learning I. I guess you've experienced the the mental health side of it but now you have to learn like the house in wise in all that of it totally which is which is a different print thing. I guess that's true. I would argue already an expert but thank you But yeah I mean I I think a lot of people are just scared to to make any sort of change because also I think they're worried about the judgment of going back to school And like the the judgment of any change. Right if someone's like want switch careers nine back to school. But if they're like I WANNA do a different from job I think people get stuck in like well but I'm not the type of person who could or I'm not the type of person who does this. I'm not the type of you know like or it's like I was just going going back to school. It's like oh I'm not an adult anymore. Yeah I I'm I'm taking steps backwards. I'm now a kid again. I now you know like it's I'm I'm not just like making money. I'm now like losing money. You know. It's just it feels weird and I have to like I have to just not let myself go there and I for whoever is in. I thought that it would like delay my relationship with Jake and I had to like ask him about then he really. Yeah for some reason. We can possibly get engaged if I'm in school like why not all the time and I was like well. I'm not a real adult famine school so we can't get engaged like that's bullshit and just like a weird rule I'm putting on myself for no reason and and anybody can go to school by the way older. We'll go back to school all the time. I don't know why we judge that. Like oh you want to a accumulate more learning ill like well. This program specifically meant for people who are working fulltime. Oh that's amazing yeah yeah. Why would we disparage that? That's admirable exactly like it was something something that made sense for me and I think that at first it was sort of like Oh really and now it's like Oh cool. Yeah you are you are the master of your our own future you control what like in certain capacities and in certain ways. You have more control than you think you. I think that's a big thing that people have to learn. Is You have more control than you think. And if you're feeling like you have no control do something to reclaim that control And like I you know I went and I. It dropped off a gift with our manager and like we were catching up about stuff news talking about the plans for me for like twenty twenty and in the past I would have been like. Oh Oh my God you have to get that job like if you don't get jobs it's my whole life like I know income nothing like like what is our plan but because now I'm going back to school I was saying there and I was like like okay like yeah. I hope that works out like that'd be cool. I was like I have another plan like longer. Just like a slave to the entertainment industry in in this way that was I completely destroying my psyche. Yeah especially in this industry because you have so little control over what happens next and I think that I can make a difference friends and I think I can live stuff and I think it's actually me rising to my potential instead of just like settling my laziness and I just can't be afraid of the work like I just have to trust that. I'm smart enough to do the work I'm like I'm pumped to do all the reading and pump to do all discussing. I don't want to write papers take tests. Yeah but I bet once you sit down you'll you'll just like breeze through them. Yeah maybe that's sort of what you're like though we'll see I'm scared but I'm just not letting the fear get in the way and that is the message here just between us So Anyway Shoutout Pepperdine for letting me in real quick forward to joining your ranks. What's the what's the mascot at pepperdine could not not tell you you got to look up pepperdine mascot? Why because because then we say go fighting pepper shakers therapists? Oh my God hold on. I'M GONNA look it up pepperdine mascot and it's a Christian school it's Kinda freaks me out. Well either wave yup go go waves. I wish I didn't know that actually really to me go. You WanNa come on and tell us if you're going back to school. I wish I kind of wish I could really why I mean I've always loved learning learning. Is I feel like a privilege brother in a write in America so I've always appreciate it being able to learn. That's the thing I forgot to touch on was like the financial aspect of it and then I'm very lucky that that is not an issue in that my parents will be helping me out. That makes it much like easier suggestion suggestion and I have to pay them back versus like the government that will keep increasing how much I owed them. Yeah the Yeah I. Guess I'm I mean I was using education as a stand in for like bettering yourself in learning more and not necessarily the the educational institutions which will take your money. But I mean I we can always go back to school. You could get a duo lingo APP. You could Start reading books about a certain topic. Could you never. It's never too late to learn some stuff for sure and Like what allison is doing is pursuing a passion which is really awesome like Having having a passion that you can like dedicate a certain amount of time and be around people with the same interests. I think that's really great. Yeah we'll see maybe I'll flunk out. Whoa wow and then you get to be kind of like a leather jacket? You put the collar up. And you're like Amoco of Grad School drop-out Baby. That's a new podcast. It on your Harley or whatever I assume cool dropouts do I have a very nine hundred fifty s view of dropouts. What else did we learn this episode? So Oh my God i Love Anne and I love her her the way that she bravely talks about this stuff and speaks up and tells her story and I just think that so many people feel so disempowered and the way that she talks makes people feel empowered. So I just I learned. I learned so much about what needs to be made better and about medical abuse abuse and medical trauma. Like it's just. You're not alone if you're listening to this. Basically I can't imagine going all those appointments Solo. Yeah having being an advocate with you like a friend or a family member right like I guess I would say like if you can possibly bring someone with you do that APP because it's harder to gaslight to people yes I know yeah that is the thing and sometimes you don't feel comfortable speaking for yourself but you feel comfortable speaking up for other people or other people feel more comfortable speaking for you there should be like advocacy groups that like will accompany you. I think there are two doctors appointments. I think there are people that do that. Yeah that sounds important and like that that would have maybe helped. Yeah it's just so like crazy that people are like no these. These human beings must is be God's when like everyone's a person like people fuck up at their jobs all the time. You can't just assume that someone is GonNa be the be all end all of knowledge on this thing when we're we're all just like flawed people think it's a catch twenty two where you have to have pride to think you can be a doctor and then you're from being a good doctor. Yeah Longer your doctor I soon you look at it as a job and not as passion I mean not everyone even comes into it looking at it right. We're doing something or like. Yeah yeah or then. It's just suddenly like I got A. I want to go home. And that's because an Annie's right it's also also because they're overworked and there's like long hours and you're on call for forever and yeah it's just like not set up for anyone to succeed basically an and and it's also I think like often about people who English isn't their first language and they go to the doctor and they have to advocate for themselves but they they don't you know there's a barrier there too you like I. I think about even like you know how much harder it would be at the doctor to try to describe what was going on and like I'm lucky enough to like. Speak the language of this. It's just like it's just not set up. Well just very scary. What do we whether we rate the episode irate it eleven out of seven evil doctors? Ooh Ooh Evil Dr Voles far with evil funny and I did. I go too far. With a timely Austin powers. Reference went too far back. Yeah I got it okay. Well let's not so shagadellic baby. Yeah I read it. I read it eight out of eight keeping your jealousies to yourselves elves. ooh that was really good advice. Yeah keep it. That's a good thing with anything that you're working on is kind of keep keep it to yourself for a month and see if if it has less power over you. Oh I love that. Thank you seem like you would probably make a good therapist. What what do you rate? It skips she's looking at her papers. I'm GonNa you say I gave it five out of five textbooks or digital textbooks. Whatever they do these days because I wish you luck? I think it's going to be really good. Oh thank you you. You're GonNa do great did you. Have you gotten some really good pens. Okay well there you go very good then. You're fine that's all you need to be a student and I think that's what I'm banking. Thank you so much to any cigar for being our guest just between us. It's hosted by me. Allison Raskin me Gabby done our engineers Justin Asher Brendon. Burns composed are killer theme music producers to meet go other spin and are supervising producers. Josephine Martorana our executive producer. Chris Bannon Bannon just between us is a production of stitcher. I got to learn how to raise my hand again to speak. I can only speak when I raised my hand. Now I guess that is the rule AH stitcher.

partner EDS Anne Hi US Bali Ray New York Miss Hannigan Evelyn Mikhail Ripken writer Cairo Laura Italy Aurora Karina Longworth Televisa Google East End asthma
Remembering Stan Lee / 'Seduction' In Old Hollywood

Fresh Air

49:24 min | 2 years ago

Remembering Stan Lee / 'Seduction' In Old Hollywood

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air today. A movie mogul who exemplified how Hollywood during the golden aid was an industry run by men fulfilling the desires and fantasies of men. We talk with Karina Longworth about her new book seduction sex lies and stardom in Howard uses Hollywood use often had affairs with actresses he worked with he turned. Jane Russell into a sex symbol with the nineteen forty three film, the outlaw it emphasized the size of her breasts. He advised the cinematographer how to shoot her. He basically asked him to shoot the camera directly down her shirt from an angle. So that it would be looking directly at her cleavage. Longworth host the podcast. You must remember this about early Hollywood. And we listened to an interview with STAN Lee he died yesterday. He was chief editor of marvel comics and co created Spiderman the incredible hulk the X men and Black Panther. Before I introduce my guest. I want to say that we're thinking of everyone in California who has lost family members friends homes pets in the fires. We're so sorry for what you were going through coincidentally. Are I interviewed today is about Hollywood. And about what Hollywood was like for women decades before the metoo movement during the period from the nineteen twenties until the late fifties. You may know, my guests Karina Longworth as the host of the podcast about that period. Code. You must remember this. She's written a new book called seduction sex lies and stardom in Howard uses Hollywood. She says that film producer use aim to turn male desire into a commodity more blatantly than any mainstream filmmaker of his era, he was famous for his affairs with many beautiful and famous actresses and for turning some actresses into sex symbols. He produced around twenty five films and directed to the first Hells Angels released in. One thousand thirty was about two brothers in the British Royal flying corps during World War One. But part of the appeal of the movie was the scantily clad female lead Jean Harlow his second the outlaw released in nineteen forty three was about Billy the kid, Pat Garrett and doc Holliday. But what Seoul tickets was promotion around the size of Jane Russell's breasts. Us was also an aviation tycoon famous pilot in the late nineteen forties. He acquired a controlling share of the film studio. Archaic pictures Karina Longworth welcome to fresh air. And I love your podcast. Thanks for joining us. So you in your book wanna focus not so much on Howard use oval though is allowed about Howard us. You want to focus on the women who he had a fares with or married. Why did you want the women to be the focus? So at the very beginning of this process. The very first seed of me being interested in this was that I settled across a message board. That had a posting that was something like all of the actresses Howard Hughes slept with and then just a list with no other information about any of the actresses. And that just made me feel like, you know, in each of these names, there's a whole life and a whole story and somebody thinks that it's just enough information to say that Howard Hughes conquered them sexually, but I'm interested in everything else. And so that led to me during a couple of podcast episodes called the many loves of Howard Hughes about different actresses that. He was involved with. And then the book was just an opportunity to explore these things in more depth. Was it hard to tell? Sometimes what was true. And what wasn't because he hired publicists to his image as a playboy. Oh, absolutely. But I think that that's the case with all of my research about old Hollywood is that you're constantly trying to sort out fact from the fictions that the studios on the publicists sold. You know, I think it's it's fascinating. But in old Hollywood the publicity narratives were. Consumed as kind of a parallel activity to consuming the movies there. There was very satisfying storytelling being told in the fan magazines, and in the movie press, but a lot of those stories even if they were presented as the truth were very shaped and the personas of the stars and the filmmakers and people like Howard Hughes included, at least as much fiction. As fact, so give us your list of women, you can substantiate head affairs or were married to Howard us. Wow. Well, there's a lot more than there are in the book. I chose to focus on ten women not all of whom actually had affairs with him. But the primary characters are Billie dove. Who was a silent? Actress who definitely had a relationship of several years with him Jean Harlow who people think had an affair with us. But I've found no evidence that she did Ginger Rogers who definitely did Katherine Hepburn who said that she did that seems like they had some kind of an intimate relationship. Although. There's a lot of questions about her sexuality. So not everybody believes that she and Howard Hughes actually had sex Bette Davis. Jane, Russell did not have an affair with him. She was just an actress who he had under contract. Jean Peters was married to him, Terry. Moore was definitely in a relationship with him. And she says that they were married. Ava gardner. They definitely had a relationship. Lana Turner did Rita Hayworth did. So a lot of women and you're leaving some out. When he launched the career of a beautiful actress he often projected a fantasy onto her like a sexual fantasy. Did he have a kind of image that he liked to work with with the actresses? We're you saw a certain kind of sexuality repeated over several actresses, well, definitely from the nineteen forties on he seemed to be obsessed with brunettes, and the first example, we have of this is Jane Russell and both in his personal life and in his professional life from that point on he seemed attracted to women who came from a very similar template, and it was slightly curly. Very dark hair large breasts, large lips dark eyes and chiseled cheekbones. And these women these actresses who fit that template from Jane Russell to faith Domergue to Yvonne decarlo to Jean Peters to several others. They look so similar to one another especi-. Really in their publicity photos in which they're heavily made up and lit in the same way that you can create a transparency of these actresses faces and put them on top of each other. And they look like the same woman. But if we back up just a little bit earlier, the fantasy was a blown up platinum blonde. I mean, his publicist created the expression, platinum blonde, and that was for Jean Harlow who he cast in Hells Angels is first big picture about British fighter pilots during World War One. But she's she is like the the romantic lead. So tell the story of a finding her and of the origin of like, the platinum blonde. So howard. He was spent three years making hoes angels, which was an extraordinarily long time. Just be shooting a movie during that time or really any time. What happened was that? He was a perfectionist about the aviation material, and he spent so much time shooting it and restricting it that the entire industry transitioned from silent film to sound film. While he was still making the movie so he had cast originally an actress named Greta Nissan, for whom English was not her first language, and now when they had to reshoot the film as a talkie he needed a new actress. So he searched for months and months and months, and he finally ended up finding this girl Jean Harlow because she was the ex girlfriend of one of his actors James Hall and James Hall suggested she come in for a screen test. Jean Harlow was nineteen years old. She was recently, divorced. She'd been married as as a seventeen year old, and she was somebody who was very naturally voluptuous and beautiful, but didn't consider herself sexy didn't project on her own a sexual image. But Howard Hughes really seized on her body and her looks and decided to make them front and center, not only in the movie, but even more significantly in the publicity for the movie. So there were posters made for hells. Angels that feature Jean Harlow in address that's falling off at the center of airpl-. Planes crashing into flames. So it gives you this idea that this gorgeous woman with her voluptuous breasts and milky white skin and cloud of blonde hair was bringing these fighter pilots to the death. And he was trying to be kind of like the tour of sexuality in that film. Like he helped design Jean Harlow gown. He wanted it to be kind of flimsy and really revealing. But it wasn't revealing enough. So what did he do? He took a pair of scissor cine cut it down the middle to reveal more of her buzzer reveal more of her cleavage. Yes. You said she didn't think of herself as very sexy wuss. She comfortable with the role that he cast her in and with the emphasis on her breasts and her sexuality on her body. No, she was extremely uncomfortable. And she actually felt humiliated onset, especially I mean, there was one scene where Hughes was direct. Acting her and she was wearing like negligee that wrapped around and he just kept asking her to open it wider and wider and wider and observers on the set other people working on the film, they really began to empathize with Jean Harlow because it was so clear that she felt humiliated just making this movie, and then to have it be promoted as her being this this dangerous. Bombshell was almost like a joke to her. She couldn't understand why how anybody could see her that way. But then it became such a part of her her star persona was almost the only thing people saw. So in Howard use cast young actresses like Jean Harlow. Typically, did he expect to sleep with that actress to you say that you don't Jean Harlow had any kind of intimate relationship with Howard us? But to what extent did he used his power in Hollywood as a casting couch? I think that came a little bit later certainly when he was. The owner of archaic studios. It seemed that he was getting studio contracts for women based on on a sexual relationship. They had already had or the promise of a sexual relationship to come. But in the early nineteen thirties. He was it seems that he was basically faithful to Billie dove once they got together. But that didn't last too loan. No. I mean, they're they're the dates are a little fuzzy. But it looks like they were together for about three years. So let's talk about another actress whose image he created. And that's Jane Russell and her first move. We was one of the two movies. He actually directed the outlaw. And this movie was promoted for years. He he took years and years to finish the film, and then to finally release the film, and there were problems releasing it because it violated the the Hollywood morality code of the time at should interrupt. You the? Film itself did not violate the morality code what the the censorship board pushed back against after. They had already given their seal of approval to the film itself was the publicity the thing that they push back against were. These sort of cartoon images of Jane, Russell's cleavage. But in the case of the outlaw varies eight climactic early scene in the movie in which Jane, Russell's character is raped in a barn, and like a pile of hay and sort of unfortunately to modernize she then ends up falling in love with her rapist. And that becomes the story of the film, but a lot of the publicity that Howard Hughes released featured Jane Russell either reclining sexily in. Hey or actually featured a cartoon of a man on top of her pinning her down in this rape position. No in the movie, we actually see him pin her down. And then everything else happens in the shadow. So we don't really see anything which is how it was. Able to get by the Hollywood code. But we do hear her yell. No. Yes. We do hear her asks him to stop. And he threatens her that. If she doesn't stop struggling. She won't have any dress left. Right. And then so Howard us really wants to emphasize the sexuality of all of this. She had very large breasts. But he didn't think her bra was good enough. What was the problem that Howard you use perceived in Jane Russell's bra just that you could see it through her clothes, and he wanted to create the illusion that her breasts were free underneath her blouse. So he designed what he thought was a better seamless arrow dynamic broth for her to wear and she put it on and felt ridiculous wearing it. So she ended up taking her original bra and covering it up with Kleenex. So that you can see it through her costume. And then Hughes couldn't tell the difference. He thought that she was wearing the bra that he designed for her. Oh, and. Do you know how you were saying like the ad campaign was much more salacious than the movie itself? Talk about like the sky writing of the campaign. This is. Yeah. So the the production board was used to reviewing advertising that was in newspapers and magazines and on the radio they weren't used to certain stunts that Howard Hughes invented he sent out a blimp that was instead of being sort of the usual like Fallas shape of a blimp. It was much rounder. It was more of a circle at looked more like a breast, and then he also sent out a sky rider to draw the outlaw in the sky and then two circles with dots in the middle which were clearly meant to evoke, Jane Russell's breasts. Jane, Russell from how you describe it really hated the image. That was being created of her. I mean, she posed for still photographs advertises movie for years because took so long for the movie to be made in for Howard used to decide to actually release it. And she was she was Christian, and she she didn't like this image. And I just find it really fascinating that a man Howard us forces her into this highly sexualize image, which then becomes not only a lustful image for for men in the audience. But I think for a lot of women they think, well, this is what is sexy female looks like I should try to look that way too. Because women have always wanted to look like the movie stars. They see. And so you get this like weird feedback loop with women trying to emulate women who didn't want to be the woman they were portraying. Yeah. I think the way that Hughes specifically used Jane Russell sexuality made her feel uncomfortable. It wasn't presenting sexual image itself because her one of her favorite movies that she made was gentlemen, prefer blondes. And she said that in that film. She was playing herself and the her character and gentlemen, prefer blondes is it's kind of a man eater. But she has this song, which I write about in the in gentlemen, prefer blondes called isn't anyone here for love in which her own body is very covered up, and she's dancing and singing amongst these male dancers who are all shirtless and wearing nude colored shorts. So they look like they're naked. So she enjoyed being the owner of the gays more than she enjoyed being gazed at. So I think that's an important distinction will the gays in that scene is probably from gay men because that seems kind of famous on all these like young attractive. Nearly naked men like jumping into the pool. Right. And I do think that she. Was very aware of this kind of camp aspect to her persona. And she was fine with that what she wasn't fine with with some of the things that he was asked her to do very early in her career. He had a photographer. Take pictures of her jumping up and down on a bed while wearing a nightgown. You know, he had OCD at least later in life. We know he had OCD even though it wasn't diagnosed then because I don't think the head the terminology. I don't think was a diagnosis then. But do you think his the number of affairs? He had over the years was in a way an expression of his obsessive compulsive disorder. You know, I guess I don't know enough about obsessive compulsive disorder to be able to speak to that confidently. But what I will say is that I think that's something that has been maybe overlooked in past writing about Howard Hughes is just the sheer number of head injuries. He had overtime. He got an into a lot of plane crashes and a lot of car accidents, and he hit his head a lot. And so you really see his behavior is starting to become more shall we say unconventional after his major plane crash in nineteen forty six in which he should have died. And I just feel like knowing what we know now about concussions and head injuries. And how that impacts the brain. I think that it can maybe help us understand some of his Radic behavior. You I have to say reading your book, I was happy. I was not an actress in in the thirties or forties or fifties. During the studio system. It sounds like I don't know how much you can generalize about what actresses. When through during that period, but these actresses seem to at least during part of their lives have careers that were out of their control and their sexuality was controlled by how men including Howard us one to to have these women perceived. Absolutely. And I mean, I think that was just part of what the studio system was all about one of the ways it functioned as an economy had to do with taking stars who had no power and keeping them under contract and paying them basically just enough to keep them on contract. There's a quote from Ava Gardner in the book where she talks about how the average contract starlet because she was forced to always look good always be wearing new clothes and have her hair done and all of that they'd get to the end of the month. And they'd realize that they needed to kind of find a sugar daddy to help them out just to continue to survive to the next month. One of Howard uses problems that had a big effect on his personality and his life was he was a germaphobe. And it's interesting to me that he engaged in so much sexual activity with so many different women while being germophobic which isn't to say oh like women carry germs, but there's so many sexually transmitted diseases. And even then like in the euro before HIV, I mean, you know, syphilis was a pretty big deal. And and there there is some speculation that Hughes might have contracted syphilis at some point. I haven't seen any documentation that makes me think that that was definitely true. But it it is certainly something that people talk about in some books about him. I guess germaphobe has its own logic. Like, you write that even though he was this like full-blown germophobic. There was a period of his life. When he was just a miss. You know, physically he was on. He was unclean. He wasn't taking care of himself. But that didn't figure into his own personal hygiene didn't figure into his larger germanophobia, right? I mean, I think that a lot of his germaphobe oh was tied to a kind of xenophobia. He was afraid of of outsiders, and he could be in a contained space, and he could be as dirty as he felt he needed to be within that space, but he didn't want anybody. Introducing any outside germs into that space. You tell a horrifying story horrifyingly racist story in the book where there's a period where he screening movies in a screening room and finds out it had just been used for a screening party for the cast of Porgy and Bess and he doesn't wanna ever go in that room again. Yeah. And that was at Goldwyn studios, which had been a studio lot where he had held an office for I think at that point over thirty years, and he never set foot on that studio lot again. Was he typically that racist in real life? Yes, I believe. So there's quite a bit of documentation of him not wanting to have black people around him not wanting to have them working for his company. He personally traced it back to an incident when he was a child, and there was a race riot in Houston where he grew up and he developed what seems to have been a mortal fear of black people after that. But I mean, it was a lifelong racism, my guess is Karina Longworth author of the new book seduction sex lies and stardom and Howard uses Hollywood she hosts the podcast, you must remember this. We'll talk more after a break and will listen back to my nineteen Ninety-one interview with Stanley he died yesterday. He co created marvel superhero characters like spider man, the x men and Black Panther. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Goldman. Tax for insights from leading thinkers on the state of markets industries in the global economy listened to their podcast exchanges at Goldman Sachs. You'll hear discussions on a variety of topics with far reaching implications from venture capital fuelling innovation to the global shift toward renewable energy that's exchanges at Goldman Sachs. Available on I tunes Spotify, Stitcher, soundcloud and Google play and GS dot com slash podcast. Let's get back to my interview with Karina Longworth who hosts the podcast you must. Remember this about Hollywood's first century her new book seduction is about movie mogul Howard us who was famous for his affairs with many beautiful and famous actresses and turning some of them into sex symbols. So Howard us was part of the blacklisting. I mean, he tried to purge his studio or KO from anybody. Who might have, you know, communist sympathies? Yes, he was one of them. Fervent anti communists in Hollywood. During the blacklist era, you know, he had this image of himself as being one of the great capitalists. So on some sense. It's just binary capitalism. Cannot coexist with communism. But I also think that there was this thing where he he really thought of communists as an infestation in Hollywood. And then the other side of that is that the studio Arcadio was not doing well at the time. And there may have been a part of him that just needed to kind of shut down production and create a distraction. So some people think including Paul Jericho who was engaged in a lawsuit with at the time. Paul Jericho was a screenwriter who Hughes fired from our K O after Jericho refused to speak to the house on American activities committee. Paul Jericho believed that Hughes had shut down our KO as a publicity stunt to distract away. From the fact that archaic was movies weren't doing. Well, so in the late nineteen forties. How would use buys Arcadio? So how did he do as an actual studio head? So most people think that he basically destroyed our KO studios when he bought it. It was profitable. And then when he ended up divesting it in the mid nineteen fifties. It was a shell of what it had formerly been throughout the time when he owned it and operated, it he had a really hard time producing and releasing enough movies to maintain a prophet, and this has to do with his personal perfectionism. He would send a movie into production. And then he would fire director after director. He would be unhappy with the dailies he would make casting changes. And then sometimes movies would be finished. And they would just sit on a shelf for months or even years because he wasn't sure what to call the film like he would change the title over and over again or he would wait for inspiration to strike him in terms of marketing, and he ended up being sued by a lot of the shareholders for ARCO because they felt that he was just pilfering away their money. And in two specific lawsuits he was accused of using the studio as kind of a shell corporation. So that he could just basically meet women and pay them off one of the one of the the lawsuits specifically cited Jane Russell as a waste of assets. And another one named for actresses who had been under contract to Keio, but who had never actually filmed a film for the studio, you suggest, and I think a lot of people suggest this that a lot of his problems came from those plane crashes that they could have affected him mentally as well as physically and also led to a dependence on drugs like codeine. Yes. So what are some of the problems? He had both as as a filmmaker and just as a person and in his relationships that you think might be traced back to the plane crashes. Well, both the acquisition of our KO and the mismanagement of that studio and some of this compulsive starlet juggling that we've talked about these things. Like accelerate after the nineteen Forty-six crash all of the archaic stuff happens after the nineteen Forty-six crash. But also after that point, it's when he's involved with many women at one time and seems to be pathologically juggling them. He seems to be getting his excitement out of having multiple women who he's telling all kinds of lies to rather than actually getting sexual excitement. Yeah. You describe him living liking the Beverly Hills hotel because he could have different women in different bungalows. And they wouldn't know that the others were there while the women were unaware of the other women, so he'd have in the central location all these different women for him to choose from. Right. And then he would be telling them all elaborate lies when he couldn't be with them. Or when he would choose to be with another woman. He would be like I'm in New York, but I'm gonna fly in tomorrow. And meanwhile, he would be in the next bungalow just on the phone with them. You started a series on the many loves of Howard us before the metoo movement. And your book is being published after the metoo movement has gotten going to the metoo movement change, the context of what you were writing in any way. Like, did you see what you were in covering any differently? Or did it take on, you know, new meaning for you? It really didn't at all the book is what I plan to write in two thousand fifteen when I I sold it the thing that has changed the world that it's being released into. And so I, you know, I think it's good that people seem more interested in more receptive into having these conversations now than they did three years ago. Somebody who studies the golden age of Hollywood so to speak. What was your reaction when the when when women started coming forward talking about Harvey Weinstein talking about other people in Hollywood who had tried to control them sexually? I think the conversation at self is. Evolutionary the thing that I've come to understand from studying the twentieth century of Hollywood is that these things have always happened. And they were never talked about publicly. They were things that women were meant to believe that they had to accept as a trade off in order to get the benefits of stardom or working in the industry, and that if they weren't receptive to that trade off they could go find another job. So just the fact that we're having a conversation is completely revolutionary the language has changed too. I mean like you wouldn't use the word playboy and ladies men anymore. But that's so new pain. It's we have only really stopped using terms like playboy, I think in the past couple of years. Me too movement. Like you. I don't think you use that word right now. Yeah. I mean, when I first started writing the proposal for this book, I think that there was more of an appetite for a book that took a playboy seriously at face value. And and thought that that was something to kind of cheer on and a reason to be excited about Howard Hughes. And I was always interested in telling the story from the other perspective of always interested in telling the story of what it would feel like to be a woman who has just on that list of conquests. So the first time I heard your podcast, you must remember this. I didn't know what to expect. I heard it was great. And if you leveled Hollywood's a great podcast, and I I love old Hollywood's I figured I should try it out, and you were basically like reading an extended essay. And I thought like when does the interviews start? And I realize no there's going to be an interview is this is this going to be Carina just like reading, you know, her very well researched essays. Which is very lively written. And that's that's what it is. And so it really goes against what like good production values are supposed to be with lots of different elements woven around them. But, you know, like, those of us who love the podcast like we we want to hear you tell the story of what happened to the actors and actresses directors and movies. So what made you think you could do a podcast with you just like reading what you've written? Well, maybe it's because I don't come from radio. So I didn't know what the rules were. I didn't know that. I was breaking the rules. I started the podcast in two thousand fourteen I had quit my film criticism job. I had a part time teaching job. But I I wasn't really sure what I was going to do with my career. All I knew is that I really did want to refocus and be talking about old movies rather than new movies. And so I just kind of created the podcast as kind of a proof of concept to show that I could do this research, and that maybe there was unexpected or unusual ways. As of disseminating my research on my writing, and then it kind of took on a life of its own. So yeah, I didn't I didn't know that I was violating the rules of good production. I just kind of heard it in my head. And then I made it. Green along. Thank you so much for talking with us and for your book and your podcast. Thank you so much Terry Karina Longworth host the podcast. You must remember this about the secret and forgotten histories of Hollywood's for century, her new book is called seduction sex lies and stardom in Howard uses Hollywood after we take a short break will listen back to my nineteen Ninety-one interview with skin Lee co-creator of Spiderman Black Panther, the incredible hulk and other marvel comics superheroes. He died yesterday. The age of ninety five this is fresh air. This message comes from NPR sponsor, WalMart, Naba Banerjee leads the product search team for WalMart dot com for Naba deciphering whatta customer actually wants from few words in a search bar. Requires some help from a sheen learning humans coming on shapes and sizes similarly their credit coming on shapes and sizes, and so we love to Jacobin aficionado inning, and humans to show their desires that are most meaningful to them. As fast as possible. To learn more about machine learning in the future of tech at WalMart. Visit WalMart today dot com slash machines. This season of the story core podcast from NPR is all about reunions. And on this week's veteran's day episode friendships forged on the battlefield and the road to reconnecting decades later episodes are available every Tuesday, We're going to listen back to an interview with Stanley. He died yesterday at the age of ninety five. He co created Spiderman the fantastic four the incredible hulk the X men, Black Panther and other marvel comics characters over the years he worked as Marvel's head writer, art director and publisher when I spoke with him in nineteen Ninety-one. He was overseeing the adaptation of marvel characters into films and TV shows, and he had just written the introduction to an illustrated history of marvel comics, he told me how we came up with one of his most famous superheroes. Spiderman before I came up with. The name Spiderman I decided I wanted a superhero who could crawl on walls stick to the ceiling and so forth. And I said, gee, that's a real insect power. What will I call them? And my first thought was insect, man. And that just didn't do it for me at all. And then I thought well, let's see this mosquito man that really had no appeal, and I wouldn't down a whole list, and when I got to spider man, I mean, it was like a bell rang light went off above my head. Spiderman was it. And when I put the amazing in front of it. I knew we were home free. What what makes a superhero a Stanley superhero? What are some of the qualities? Well, it has to be magnificently written. The creation has to be a work of genius. But to be serious, and the one thing that I've tried to do is give them the most human and realistic qualities possible. Now, it may sound like. A contradiction in terms because superheroes are fantasy characters with superpowers that no human being possesses. And yet I try to be realistic about it. But the the basic idea is. You take one fantastic element like well with a hope like somebody who got the strength of fifty men and green skin, and then you say suppose such a character really existed. What would his life be like in the real world? Where would he live? What would he wear who? Would he relate to and so forth and having asked the reader to suspend disbelief in the area of the characters superpower, you then try to make everything else as realistic as you can. And then the other thing that we try for very much as Umer now, I guess before marvel comic started. There wasn't too much humor in superhero adventures. But for instance, with spider man, I tried again to inject the humor in such a way that it was realistic. For example. There was a time when he. He had received a check as a reward for something he had done, and he was so happy to have this money. This check made out despite a man anyone to a Bank to cash it in his fight a man costume and the teller behind the counter said, well, I can't cash this check I need identification. And he's saying I'm wearing a spider man costume. He said anybody could wear a spider man costume. I, you know, why are you? And he said, I've got a secret identity. I can't tell people who I am. Anyway, this went from bad to worse. And he was never he was never able to cash the check. Now to me, the interesting thing about that was I really wasn't trying to be funny so much as I was trying to be realistic because what would happen if a guy in a spider man suit had to check that he tried to cash head of the superheroes. That you created compare to the kinds of heroes and comics when you started working at marvel back when you were a teenager. Well, when I started. Working for the COMEX all the heroes were really cut out of the same mold. They were toll and handsome, and strong and noble, and as far as the dialogue went I felt insufferably dough like an example of the type of writing thought was real doll. Okay. I want you to imagine something I want you to imagine that you're walking down the street, and you see a Munster coming toward you. And this Munster is twelve feet tall with purple skin forearms, a tail and he's breathing fire, and he's got two heads. And if in those days if superman or Batman or one of our own characters kept in America, or anybody any typical superhero had seen this Munster walking down the street in one of the stories. I think the dialog would have gone something like this. Oh, a creature from another world. I'd bet a capture him before. He destroys the city. Well, I would like to feel that in one of our comic books one of our heroes such as spider man might say. Who's the nut Mahala ween costume? I I wonder what he's advertising. It was just that shade of difference. I tried to do dialogue that represented the way real flesh and blood three dimensional people would talk and would react to things and it came across as satire, but I wasn't trying to write humor. I was trying to be realistic. So I must be funnier than I thought. What about deciding on the alliterative sounds that you would use? When somebody got got hit. Oh, I loved sounds. And again, I think what it is. I've always hated cliches m. As as you can imagine formally in the comics, if somebody was hit, or if there was a sound effect of of a loud noise, the sound effect would be Powell or bamn or sock or bop. Something of that sort. So I tried to make up crazy sound effects that would at least be original. I would have PFC's E A K T, which I cannot pronounce that might be the sound of a bullet going through a wall or something. I one of my all time favorite sound effects was between them, and it was spelled B T K O M with three os. And then I put a little asterik at the end of the word with a note on the bottom of the panel saying the third, oh, of course, is silent. So I had fun with the sound effects as far as the alliterative names. Most of our characters had alliterative names. I there was Peter Parker and Bruce banner and read Richards. And I had a very am pragmatic reason for doing that. I have a terrible memory always did. And it was difficult for me to remember the names of my characters. But by having the same first letter for a care, if I could remember the Peter it gave me a clue that the la- the last name also began with p and I would eventually remember it was Parker. You see? So it made it easier for me to remember the names by giving them the same first letter. What was the comic book code like when you started working? Well, it wasn't there. When I started working, but when we begin to have some pressures from certain groups, we instance instituted. A code that was similar to the motion picture code at that time. And it was what you'd expect him. There. Couldn't be too much untoward sex the female characters had to be pretty covered up. Just just what you'd expect that mustn't be any blood shown in. If there were any violent battle scenes, nobody can have a hejab to offer, you know, the the usual things we're listening back to my nineteen Ninety-one interview with STAN Lee of marvel comics he died yesterday at the age of ninety five we'll hear more of the interview after a break, this is fresh air support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from little passports, the award winning subscription service that brings a world of discovery to your front door every month with the early explorers subscription each month package arrives full of activities like uncovering fossils from around the world fund souvenirs like ancient Greek coins in hands on games. Like coloring, the cosmos all curated for their curious minds. Learn about our holiday offers at little passports dot com slash fresh. About boiling with the also considered podcast fifty years ago. The beatles. Made a mind boggling double album here the white album as you never heard of before from demo tapes. Two brand new mixes. This week on all songs considered. Let's get back to my nineteen ninety one interview with Stanley. He died yesterday at the age of ninety five he co created spider man, the fantastic four the incredible hulk Black Panther and other marvel comics characters he had been Marvel's head writer, art director and publisher. I'm sure you've been asked this before. But white superhero so often we're tight, I don't know. I think it is simply precedent. It started out that way the first books, and I wasn't around at that time had them that way. And the funny thing is when when I did our first superhero book the fantastic four in an effort to avoid the cliche. I told the artist I don't want costumes on these guys. I just want him to wear clothes. So they didn't have skin tight costumes. We sent the book out. It was published. We received a lot of fan mail. The kids said they loved it. We knew we had a winner. And we were on our way now. But every virtually every letter said, we think it's the greatest book will buy it forever. We love it turn out more. But if you don't give them colorful, costumes, we won't buy the next issue. And I do not know I think you'd have to be a psychologist or a sociologist or something and do an intensive study. But there for some reason unless these characters are garbed in some sort of outlandish outfit, the readers don't seem to accept the even the Hoke. I had no great reason for giving them green skin, except I knew if he had normal college skin. We probably wouldn't sell as many books that has to be something colorful about the way they look visually. You colorful dresser yourself on the most conservative guy illiteracy, I wear jeans a lot. But I don't know. That's very colorful. What about physically do you have? Special physical strengths. Incredibly our right? You've got the shoulders and bulging. Kinda tall and skinny, and I mean, nobody would ever mistake me for Arnold Schwarzenegger back to what you were saying before that you you couldn't create a character without a colorful costume because the readers the rediscovered they'd never read it. Right. I could create it. But it's just I don't we would have sold. Right. Right. Well, no with women superheroes. I bet. The equivalent is no matter how wonderful the character. You have to give her a large bosom or else, they won't buy it. Well, I guess you're right. But I I don't know that it's anything sexist as much as symbolic, for example, you'll find that most of the heroes as I say, they have broad shoulders and big biceps, and yeah, they're all sort of Schwarzenegger's and most of the women Marilyn Monroe's. And I think it's just that the artists tried to draw idealized men and women, and I guess, that's the way most people idealize people what you've been doing for for years now at marvel is overseeing the adaptation of marvel characters into television and film storms. So. So so do you initiate these things or do people come to you? And and and well, it makes you offers it works both ways. And I've been out on the coast long enough now that I know most of the so-called power players in the movie and television business, and it's taken a while to get started. But right now, I think you're going to be seeing a lot of marvel product on the screen or a lot of our characters. Now, for example, Jim Cameron who did the Terminator Terminator two is about to do a about to write direct and produce a very big movie of Spiderman, and I'm incredibly excited about that. I think he's the best possible person to do this movie. And I think it's going to be an absolute blockbuster. So how do you like being spider-man's agent it instead of spider man's creative? Oh, I I enjoy doing what I'm doing. I moved out to Los Angeles about ten years ago to set up a marvel animation studio now work there for a few years to get that going and then little by little I got into motion, pictures and television, and it's very exciting to to be in a new field at a time. When a lot of guys are starting to think about retiring, and I've got this whole world opening up in front of me. And I'm still able to keep in touch and keep my finger in on the comic book. So I figure I'm about the luckiest guy around. I really love what I'm doing. And each day seems to be more exciting the day before so Stanley may be win less than you can clear up for me before we have to say goodbye your birth. Name is Stanley Lieberman. No Lieber daily. I was born Stanley Martin Lieber, which is a very, I think lovely normal name. And as I said, I. I wanted to write the great American novel. And when I got working in a comic book company, and I'm not gonna use my name for these silly comics. So I, you know, I was seventeen when you seventeen you don't know that much. I thought I need a pen name, and I made up the name Stanley. And I started using it. And what happened was everybody as the years went by started to know me as Stanley. Nobody knew me anymore Stanley Lieber. So I would go to buy something and tell him that charge it and they wanted to see my dentist is he charged into Stanley. But I had to show my driver's license, which said Stanley Lieber, and it got so complicated. That I finally legally changed my name to Stanley which was a dumb thing to do because Stanley is such a stupid name and people always say to me Stanley what? So I'm thinking of changing my name now to Stanley what? So when they say that I can say, that's right. So is is Stanley short for skin Lee or short for veep. Lieber? I don't know. I don't know. Really? I can't remember whether I cut Stanley into two names, or whether I figured stand from Stanley and Lee from Lieber, I don't remember what the thinking was. But I figured Stanley sounds right for comic books will certainly work as it. I it hasn't hurt really Stanley. Thank you so much for talking with us. Oh, it's been a real pleasure, Terry. Thank you for having me. My interview with Stanley was recorded in nineteen Ninety-one. He died yesterday at the age of ninety five tomorrow on fresh air. My guest will be sandy ten. The director of a new documentary called shirkers about being conned by her own mentor. A man twice her age. Also, we'll hear from Steve Young of the Walking Dead and sorry to bother you. He stars in the new film burning a hoop? He'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is getting Miller. Our interviews and reviews produced an edited by any salad Phyllis Myers. Sam brigger, Lauren. Crendall Heidi Simone, Theresa met and lose eighty Challenor and said Kelly, I'm Terry gross.

Howard Hughes Hollywood Jane Russell Stanley Lieberman STAN Lee Jean Harlow Karina Longworth Fresh Air Terry gross director marvel Ava gardner Spiderman Us Billie dove Comcast Seoul Arnold Schwarzenegger
Good Zeit Moon 7/1: Elon Musk, Olivia de Havilland, Gavin Newsom, Canada, Beavis and Butthead

The Daily Zeitgeist

15:26 min | 7 months ago

Good Zeit Moon 7/1: Elon Musk, Olivia de Havilland, Gavin Newsom, Canada, Beavis and Butthead

"Hello the Internet and welcome to this episode of Good Zeitz Moon. I'm Jackie, O'Brien. Is Jamie A. Jamie Jimmy Loftus right. Access. Hasn't changed no plans to change it. Good. No need. J. Lo the original. J.! Lo! According. Yeah, popular opinion will say that prior J.lo's I think you'll find that I was the first one. There was like a really cute when all those old Carl Reiner tweets were circulating yesterday, he liked tweeted about seeing the same Jaylo movie four times over the course of like five years. Just Yeah I forget which jalen movie it was, but he like. He watched it once a year, and it was amazing the. With the net is so great. I. I didn't realize I mean unfought. Most most great art isn't appreciated till the artists has gone. I didn't realize this twitter. Mine existed until yesterday. A genius. Do you think he's joking? You've seen the net. Do you think is? Like seriously loved the movie The net. Bit. I I like it better if uh, if he if he means it, I hope he genuinely enjoys it by the end I don't know. I guess I feel like it's hard like as you get older, it's you're. Maintaining the level of irony. Of your youth, it depletes, and it should I hope you're upset, but he was still funding to the end, but yeah Iranian funny. Do not mean the same thing. I would agree with that. I hope he loves the net. You just said that was such a faraway wistful. I wish I could ask him. Let's talk about what's trending. Alon is trending and I. Think it's a about Elon Musk. that. Brave assumption I I unfortunately know why this is trending I. Don't know the details of Y. It is not immediately clear to me. What I do know. Is that Kanye West and Eli Musk a hung out. And there was a picture of cropped up of it this morning Connie tweeted when you go to your boys house and you're both wearing orange great capital. would. So like I. Guess they're both wearing Orage I. It's the picture has so many layers I. Guess I don't really know so I. Guess there at Eons House I. I'm not well-versed in terrifying celebrity. Like prison homes, but this is I think that this is his house. They're wearing matching yeezy, but the interesting thing about this photograph that you can see in a reflective surface who is taking it and it's grimes taking the picture she's being. Literally like. A sign that says help backwards. Red Rum is written on there. I mean I. Of all the things to extend your empathy to grimes is not my number, one priority, but every once in a while when you see her. When she catches her reflection, your dislike issue. Okay, we don't know. They both look like such dorks in the shoes are not cool at all also cool, and they yeah, they look like such dad's. They really look like deaths. Also you'll musk is not wearing orange wrong about that. Kanye US I guess he's got Great Orange Jacket Traffic. Looking you musk is wearing all black with like a tiny little like orangish apple over his heart. and. Which is probably something terrifying? I Yeah I resent that their trending I feel like this past week, especially the Kardashians which I lump Konya into. As well have been making. Molly Lambert was tweeting about this like they've been making a lot of attempts to go viral again and I think people are like less interested in hearing about. What billionaires are up to but. But but this pick slip through the cracks it was it was too cursed. Now you have seven days. Live I have seven days that we all live in days live. Unfortunately, it's like. I don't want like whatever they were talking about. Guaranteed the most terrifying shit ever. Just, like the, they're probably very wistful of lake that month seven years ago when they both peaked in terms of fame and I feel like they probably like art. Some celebrities stop. Like their fashion sense stops evolving when they were at their most famous and. I like they are each other's friends for like a similar reason? Twenty Thirteen! It was so good it's when we were. In the world. It's not good. I. There is also a really good tweet of. Have you seen Jennifer's body? I haven't but I hear. It's an underrated classic. It's classic but they. Someone posted a clip of like a scene where Megan Fox always pushing Amanda. Saif red season free. She's pushing a man to see free at around 'cause she's the UNCALL-. Friend and people were saying that that is how Kim. kardashian would treat grimes. Which is true. Does anybody know how to pronounce it? See. For in I, feel like it's been a couple years since anyone's head to I. Don't know what was I guess. It wasn't since Mama Mia here. We go again that people have had to say that I think it. C- free okay. Yeah when just said that with confidence, it sounded rate I've been. I've been very wrong before and I. Never hear the end of it. Caught. J. K. Rowling is one that people got really mad at rolling rolling idiot, but who cast you say her name wrong. She's the worst person alive. Also, Yulon DeGeneres. Is that something? Libya Distress. Appreciate I love you. Have Wind is trending for being the oldest person. She's one hundred four today. She's like the last relic of. Old Hollywood. What was she in? Well! She visited in many things back in the day. I think most famously. She was in gone with the wind. Another. Movie that is. Fun To talk about. But Classic. Misunderstood, no! No, so but yeah, she was in gone with the wind. And she also I feel like my favorite thing about Olivia to have and that I. Don't know how common knowledge it is anymore. I don't know but was that. She had this brutal competition with her sister. During the old Hollywood period and they had different last names. So people were like I. Guess didn't know that they were sisters, but they were in such intense competition with each other. They would go decades without speaking to each other. They hated each other like she's like the. I think that Olivia to have is kept alive solely by spite. And I have to respect it, but her and Joan. Fontaine. Who is her younger sister? were just like. Oh, my God! They hated each other so much As of a couple years ago over that feud show. Oh was that about them? No, but she was like they were featured and I think that I, mean they? They knew that. Like Olympia to have one was alive but I don't think that they knew that she was alive and litigious assist. On hundred two. You know she's still alive. She's kept alive by spite. The last thing I found out about her recently was that she. Like her most famous Oscars gown was made by a black dress designer named an low. who had never heard of, but she has a very like fascinating where she was making some of the most glamorous gowns in old Hollywood award show history but was always was never credited properly until like late in her career so oh, we're google and low. She's the hidden figures of Hollywood. Glamor, God bless, you did. I think she did Yeah Jacqueline Bouvier as Wedding out like when she got married. JFK like she's made some of the most famous dresses in the world. But the the famous white lady she would design them for would never credit her. She's fascinating and legend. You know a lot about old Hollywood stuff. Hidden vein into Karina Longworth. Okay. Gavin newsom is trending. Because I think he's training. For the same reason like a lot of other governors are trending because like we're having rollback all the all that fun stuff all indoor. Things that were open for business stores, restaurants bars. No longer open unless they're outdoor, which most of them are not, which most of them are not, this is so I mean it's not just like. Blatant disregard for human life, but it's I mean. It's also deeply embarrassing to have to like. Gavin Newsom who who could possibly take him seriously at this point where he's just so clearly. You know going whichever way the PR wind is blowing for what can get away with and now that the PR is bad because people in his State are dying because he allowed people to re-open just. Oh, what a loser! New York is doing the same thing there I think there. You might be able to keep restaurants open more because. More people eat outside. Yeah I. It just seems like we're. Headed for a weird weird place, terrible place especially if a lot of people decide to travel or go to parties on the fourth of July. Don't what are you celebrating if you do the? Holidays to want to celebrate you. Passing yourself quick side side trend candidates trending because they. It's Canada Day, I guess. It's candidate day. Can candidate. And shut up to them. Are At half. And finally Beavis and butthead are trending a because that that's being rebooted by Mike Judge with Mike Judge involvement. Which is I mean? At least there's judge involvement I duNNO I. Jack do you have like an intense attachment to Beavis and butthead I did not grow up with them, and then I watched it later, and I liked it, but I'm not like super attached to it. Yeah. I watch when it was on a thought, it was very funny, and but sort of one like I got tired of it after a little while, because it is somewhat one note and the movie was like solid, but it was like okay that joke. Ran Its course. Yeah Yeah. So yeah, I don't have an intense attachment. Who would that would be excited about this? I honestly thought that. Of, all people like Mike Judge would be. This is the first thing of his. It's been rebooted right like I thought that he evolved. I thought he had the. I guess integrity isn't the word I thought he would have resisted rebooted culture. Yeah, you would think so But I don't know. Maybe. Maybe he has maybe some butthead have more to say. Now when we saved rebooted are. Are? They going to be Are, they going to be new characters. Are they going to be old men? Are they going to be? The same. As far as I know, they're teens again. But this time. They're JEN's Z. Ed. I don't know I this is speculation, but like commenting on Tiktok like I don't know. I'm assuming that they would be like commenting on Gen Z.. Media people are Doria is also trending, because people are like. Why wasn't it Doria and you know fair point I don't dislike. Ganzi their own cartoon. Why why why they have to get their parents? Scraps doesn't seem fair. Yeah, well I'm sure they will completely reject their parent's scripts. That sort of ends up being. A. I mean if it's this or tosh point. No then I'm happy Mike Judge's something Mike. Judge involved with is replacing tosh point. Oh, but. So unfortunately, I guess millennials. Got You like Gen-x Scott? Views and butthead. The millennials got tosh point now. And then jazzy gets beavis and butthead again doesn't fair. Although baby boomers got tosh point. Oh, also my my Dad and his friends did love, tosh point Oh and when I was father hosted. I was going into. Comedy, might. tosh! You seen this. Guy. It's all right. That is going to do it for this Wednesday Jamie. Thank you for joining us Guys. Have a good day. Be kind to your cells. Other wash your hands say home, don't you think? We'll be back tomorrow with a whole last episode of the podcast and we will talk to you then.

Mike Judge Hollywood grimes Beavis Kanye West Jamie A. Jamie Jimmy Loftus J. Lo Doria Gavin newsom Carl Reiner twitter Zeitz Moon jalen tosh Olivia Konya Jackie J. K. Rowling Karina Longworth Jacqueline Bouvier
Effectively Wild Episode 1490: Yeah Jeets

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:14:27 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1490: Yeah Jeets

"I And Low and welcome to episode fourteen ninety of effectively wild eight baseball baseball podcast van. Graphs presented our Patriot supporters. I am Ben. Lindberg of bringer joined by similar of ESPN low. San Shall we follow up on our knives out discussion from the previous episode. We got some info from a listener. No spoilers here just a brief follow up on the way that we started the previous episode. Good which was you made a case for the Ryan Johnson. Movie Knives out being a baseball movie based on the baseball that is in it and your interpretation of that baseball -aseball significance so we got an email. This is from Joseph who says to help. Settle the baseball debate in knives out. We can turn to the director's commentary. A Johnson released while the movie is still in theaters. At around twenty one thirty. He speaks for about thirty seconds on the addition of the baseball. I've attached a rough quotation below the the whole thing with the baseball. I needed a way to get Linda back to the office to see the note and I think it was in prep. I came up with it. I like the idea of Karmic justice that if it were not for Don's Petty Little Act of aggression and checking. The baseball window would have never found the note. Unfortunately it doesn't mention the obvious playing catch Hook of baseball that Sam hypothesized and the commentary commentary insures that it is at most third most important aspect of the balls inc just as importantly in a November interview. The director made this statement. Oh Yeah Yeah God. There's so many different types of movies I love. I keep talking with my composer Nathan. That's Nathan Johnson. His cousin about doing a musical. I'd love to do a musical someday. I'm a big Big Music Theater Fan. I think that would be really fun. A Western would be really interesting to do and I'd love to do a baseball movie someday. I Love Baseball. My wife has turned me into a huge baseball fan. That's a Karina Longworth. The host of the excellent podcast. You must remember this and effectively wild listener. She grew up a dodgers fan. And now we follow the entire season. And it's it's a big part of our lives and thus Ryan Johnston. It seems officially does not consider knives out to be a baseball movie. Hello I guess. He is using a different definition finishing than we have historically. Yeah no is good. Great work. Great Slu I read both of these things With a lot of interest and of course there can be hidden layers to something that perhaps a director doesn't even realized maybe it's subconscious. Maybe it's something that they didn't put it in intentionally but other people can take out of the work. So that's what happened here. Yeah or or didn't happen here or or you is interpreted. Everything is definitely still baseball in the movie that unless unless he comes out and says Actually we didn't choose the set how we just. We inherited the set from a different movie. I will still you know by the standards that I use Somebody put that baseball there. It is baseball. They knew it was a baseball. Anyway we can move on. Okay so shall we spend a few minutes on hall of fame before we get to e mails going to do some emails but we had big hall of fame developments if we we do. Were very likely to end up bringing in a very Very early step last step kinds about the hall of fame fine with me all right. So we got two players admitted via via the BBC w a vote to the him Derek jeter of course and Larry Walker which was really in question up until the last second Walker head actually tweeted on the day that the results were going to be announced that he thought he was GonNa Follow up at short. And there's this whole cottage industry. How of people on twitter? Who Project the the hall of fame voting results just based on previous voting and based on Ryan typifies work with ballot tracker and it seemed like in the minutes and hours leading up to the announcement that most people were thinking that Walker would fall just short and people were already blaming certain people who had dropped walker off their ballots are not included him and and as it turns out there was a slightly smaller voting pool than most people are accounting for and so as a percentage of that Pool Walker? Got Seventy six point six which was six votes more than he needed and it was really nice. Everyone was happy about Walker Getting Walker was happy about getting in. There's nothing more wholesome really than the hall of Fame Reaction Video where you get to see the players surrounded by their friends and family getting the call that they got in and it's probably probably true for any player. I don't know at Yet Derek jeeter reaction video. I'm not sure if there was one whether he really would have been able to muster any surprise but it walkers case of course it was endowed and he was in his tenth and final year of eligibility and he really seemed to care about it which was nice like he said that he was following the tracker tracker religion. You Your Your Your charm that the baseball player wanted to make the hall of fame. Could imagine some people saying. It's an honor under the other people bestow. Whether the baseball writers even know about it I had the career I had. I'm deserving so whether they say I am or not it's just an utter. I'm sure everyone wants to get in. Obviously obviously but I would think that certain people may be taken more or less seriously than others and Walker was like all of us. He was out there. Refreshing the tracker looking at the latest stats. What's and then? He had this very endearing interview where he was wearing. Spongebob Shirt for some reason and his twitter handle is Canadian goose slips and it's just Very easy guy to root for so it was nice to see him get his wish come. True and and a lot of people's wishes come true because Walker had become one of those guys who was kind if a cause and people were rooting for him in advocating for him in arguing for him for years and felt some agency or some stake in whether he you've got Internet so it was sort of a nice moment for all involved such a such a fascinating curve in hit was. Yeah I mean you you Kinda you do. SORTA get used to this trajectory of a player who who starts out with a crazy low vote total. You're sort of shocked by how close he come. He you know he might have even come to being knocked off the ballot entirely and then as a few things happen as votes lead to more votes as people start writing about it as the the oldest of the final year of eligibility all start to come up the vote. Total start to go up until he gets there or he doesn't and so you know that's that's a pretty standard trajectory like I'm looking at burt. Bly Levin for instance who started out at seventeen point five percent in his first year and then dropped a fourteen eighteen but then every single year after that he he rose I guess except one year he dropped from fifty three to forty eight but every other year he rose for fifteen years shares in till he eventually got over seventy five. And it's a slow and steady climb three percent here then. Six percent more and then five percent more than thirteen percent percent more and then eight percent more. And so that's like your classic climb and Tim Raines Basically the same twenty four his first year and then a tiny little drop the second second year and then every year after that except again except for one he rose and it's like eight percent at a time nine percent of the time and so Mike Mussina Twenty to twenty five five to forty three to fifty to sixty four to seventy seven. It's not it's not just that he rose every time it said he rose pretty pretty steadily overtime. And then and then you get Larry Walker who starts at twenty and then goes to twenty three and then goes to twenty two and then boom drops down to ten like it's just just to collapse of support and that was not long ago. That was five years ago. Yeah drops down to ten. Seems impossible to imagine that in the next six years years he would he would climb to seventy five percent and in fact the next year he only rises to twelve and so he's halfway through. He's halfway through his eligibility. He's is only at twelve percent. He's at five. Chances in his votes have declined sixth year. Only fifteen percent so not even like who had fifteen percent this year. I've met people who had fifteen fifteen percent. This year are like Jeff can't end. Well just tell you fifteen percent. This year Sammy Sosa had fourteen percent. Andrew Jones at one thousand nine percent Andy Pettitte eleven percent sent Jeff. Kent twenty-seven percent so imagine an average of those four. None of them are going to make it. We don't expect any of them to make it. We don't expect Manny Ramirez to all of a sudden catch fire has twice fifteen percent so fifteen percent and then twenty two which is still again like. That's where Andrew Jones is this year basically and then it's thirty four and then it's fifty five thirty four to fifty five and then seventy seven so basically in in three years he goes from No chance to in that is a very very rapid reconsideration of his like he has below Billy Wagner and Gary Sheffield Until Hill two and a half years ago right. I mean the differences at least one difference with walkers that of course he doesn't have the PD baggage that guys like manny and Sosa have so so when you don't have that weighing you down maybe there's a little more helium there. He just also just had a better case. I think some guys who are in that range like ask Andy Pettitte. Let's say so. I think there is always the capacity for growth there but yeah it's really surprising and I guess it's partly a bit of the steroid royd related backlog clearing off for the PD era backlog. So there was more spots on the ballot to go round up for grabs and then also it just goes to show kind of the power of the Internet to change minds. I think which has really grown. I mean the Blind Levin thing that was is kind of the first one that I remember where the metric community coalesced around. This one person is a cause and really flogged that cause heart every year and there were certain people who are very associated with that but that started even before social media. I think so now that you have that and you just have youtube videos and you have twitter the people just making threads about it and it's constantly there and if you're a person who hasn't been voting for Walker you're just constantly confronted by reasons to vote vote for Walker and peer pressure to vote for Walker so in that sense like. There's almost a a dangerous precedent. I guess if there were some undeserving candidate who for some recent. That's sort of support than maybe people would feel that pressure but thus far at least the people who've gotten into that kind of drive have been people who should have been in so violin and Raines and Walker. I don't think walkers cases quite as clear cut his by eleven rains but I think he was deserving candidates so it's nice to see that greater access to information and people trying to convince other people can actually they work. Yeah I think he has. I think he has more war than rains. In fact yeah maybe so. Yeah so two things about that so going to the the peer your browser thing is unreal Kinda unrelated to that. But I'm just curious. It is a private ballot. You don't have to publish your ballot. CBW A few years ago switched to public ballots for are for all the awards but the hall of fame. It's still up to you. You can either submit it and publish it and tell them that they can publish it or you can keep it quiet so. Let's say that you are a voter order. Ben And you feel very strongly that Derrick jeeter shouldn't be in the hall of fame and you don't you're not trying to troll your you've got a high. I standard your standard is maybe somewhere around seventy five war. You're a small hall. You look and you see L- Whitaker's not in there and Bobby grits is not in there. And when you you compare you just don't see enough different. Hypothetically all this is hype. I'm not making it but you decide that you know until rich and whitaker and cheater doesn't have of a place either and so you in good faith decide you're not giving jeeter your vote and your your vote's not going to be public so you're fine. You're not going to be either. You have you suspect that you're going to be the only person or that you might be the only person it's maybe it's more likely that a couple people will think like you know it's very possible that he would be unanimous. If not for you but you feel so strongly that you are still committed to wanting to not give him your vote. How confident are you that your vote will never never actually? How confident are you that you will make it to your death without either somebody either? BWI retroactively publishing pushing everything or somebody leaking it somebody at Bwi somehow leaking it or someone hacking in Bwi or someone hacking in to your email millon dress or you dumbly telling one friend who then tells to friends and gets out. How how confident are you that you could take this one of your great? It's not that confident. It's pretty hard for information to say St cred these days and I don't think the W I would put it out there intentionally. There's always the possibility they would leak it by accident or get hacked or something. But I guess the precedent is the Griffey non voters. I think there were three people who did not vote for Ken. Griffey junior and I believe none of them are known even today so they have managed to stay secret. Of course that could change at some point but yeah I'd be a little worried about it. There's only one person out of the three hundred ninety seven voters who decided not to vote for teeter. The only valid reason that I can can think of not to vote for Jeeter is just that someone thought that they were eleven deserving candidates which I don't on this current ballot but I could see how someone would and so if someone said Hey cheaters getting in with or without my vote. So I'm going to vote strategically and give a vote to someone who's in danger of falling off the ballot or really needs the vote vote. I wouldn't be upset about that if someone said that publicly so bad. It's bad logic though because even if even if you're saying well I only have ten spots. I WanNa vote for eleven so I'm going to use my ten votes for maximum power maximum effect. It's more more likely that you're going to be the person that cost cheater unanimity than that said Billy Wagner is your one of your eleven that Billy Wagner is GonNa make it or fall off like he is he and his role and they're sort of safely in that thirty to fifty percent range where your vote's not going to push them in and the lack of your vote is not going to knock them out and in fact not voting for Jetta would be one of the costliest non votes that you could make strategic voting perspective that presupposes that unanimity matters which. I'm not sure it does really. I mean who cares he got in. Yeah that's a good point. I it mattered. Once it mattered up until last year. Yeah A- and and now it no longer now I think it probably I think it's I won't name or does it matter now. Are we going so I wrote when Rivera got in that it was perfect that Rivera godden because as the first unanimous one because nobody is going to mistake Mariana Rivera for the greatest. I Hall of Famer ever. It's never going to be like. Oh well there's only been one unanimous the true greatest of all time Mariana Rivera like he's obviously an inner circle Michael Hall of Famer. He's a great great great great Great Hall of Famer but he is. He is not the greatest player in baseball history. And so the fact that he's was the first unanimous person really makes it clear that the difference between getting unanimity and not getting unanimity is not a clear. So you're like ranking right like there are many people who are better than Mariano Rivera who are not unanimous and there will probably continue to be some maybe and so he makes it safe in a sense to not be unanimous because Marlin era like. What are we talking about? Yeah so that said people care a lot of people care. They do and coder. If you thought Derek jeter should be all fame and you did not vote for for him Strategically thinking that it wouldn't matter to people whether or not he was unanimous. I think that you probably would miscalculate. Matters to people definitely matters. It doesn't personally matter to me very much. And if I were Derrick jeeter. I don't think it would matter all that much to me. I mean he's got a lot going on for him. I don't think he really needs that. Three hundred ninety seventh vote again. They're better players in the past two have not been unanimous so it's not really a snow it's not really saying. Oh He's not in the class of this hall of Famer that Hall of Famer and it doesn't affect his induction doesn't affect his speech. It doesn't affect the placement of his plaque so ultimately only bothers me in the sense that it's just illogical for people not to vote for someone if it's only based on Oh I don't vote for anyone on a first ballot out of principle apple which has just sort of silly bothers me in a very low stakes way but other than that now unless the non-voter was voting for the first time this year they can never again say nobody who voted last year against. They don't vote for people on the first ballot. Yes that's true. Yes so I I mean if if that were the reason if it were someone voting strategically and being private just because they don't want the hassle of being the one person who gets lambasted for not voting for Derek. JETER than I would understand why they wanted that privacy. If it's someone who wants the attention of trolling than you would think they would do it publicly. Obviously to to to get that boost of traffic or attention or hatred. Or whatever if it's someone who just bears a grudge against jeeter for some reason than that's wrong long and they shouldn't do it for that reason so we'll see. There will still be ballots. That will be released publicly. That haven't been yet so it's possible that it will be one of those but but probably not. Anyway it's It's sort of silly. But Michael Bama among others made the point just kind of highlighting the contrast between the paths that cheater Walker took to induction. Because these guys are not that far apart. I mean if you just go by strict war which maybe is not a completely fair. Wait to evaluate these people given jeeter's postseason record and everything but by baseball reference were jeeter in Walker separated by point three wins above replacement smitten walkers actually above jeeter and yet it took walker ten years and just barely scraped over the line whereas Jeeter of course Scotland on the first try in. There was never any question about whether he would. So it's SORTA strange their reasons why that's the case. Of course. Just you know. Cheater was much more famous for for valid reasons and maybe some not so valid reasons and that's reflected in the voting but it is just kind of one of those weird things that if you were an alien who were comparing pairing the warriors and someone said Yeah. This is the best way to evaluate a baseball player. Look at the war's end. Then you saw the disparity in the voting results would wonder what the heck was going on. They're so every time one of the CAUSES GETS IN I. I assume this happened as well with Walker but every time one of the causes gets in. And there's that discussion of like who should be the next. Should we champion next. And I assume it's as clear as day that it should be Scott Rolen that would people. Yeah I think so. And and that's kind of one of the disparities that it blows. Your mind is looking at Roland fiscal and they both took some jumps. This year rolling up to thirty five point three percent fiscal up to fifty two point Six percent which is that range where there are very few players who get to that point and don't eventually make especially on just their third year of eligibility ability. So that's another case where you compare the wars and you think how is scale getting so much more support than Rohan which in a way might bolster Rolodex. This cases the cause of the symmetric community. Because I think it's helpful when there's a foil not that any of the stat nerds like us. Wish fiscal ill or anything. Fiscal seems to be a great guy and I don't want to deprive him of a a happy day. But just based on the careers he certainly certainly seems a lot less deserving to me than Scott Rowland and so to be confronted by the increased support service cow relative to ruin it. It just makes you want to Advocate for rolling even more to convince the people who are voting fiscal. That they're missing something with Rohan so I would think that Ruin will climb up and he has has seven years left so he's made some progress there but it looks like we're in for something of a lull or a dry spell in the coming years because this next year there's no first-ballot guy like the best first ballot players. Are Tim Hudson and Mark Burleigh. I think so next year it's looking like purchasing Kurt. Showing may be the sole inductee because he got up to seventy percent this year and with no one else really took compete with next year. He'll probably get across that finish line in his second. The last year eligibility and beyond that people on the ballot right now like clemens and bonds are just not moving at all like no one is changing their minds minds on clements and bonds. At this point they go up. A couple percentage points every year just based on new voters being added to the group and most of them will vote for clements and bonds and I will be eligible to vote for the first time on. I think the last year that those two will be appearing on the ballot and I expect to vote for them. I would vote for them now despite my reservations about their characters. An off the field behaviors but I still just sort of how walk the hall of fame. I would vote for them but I don't think that the addition of some new people to the roles will get them across the finish line. So it's looking like they'll have to be some kind of veterans committee cases and based on the historical makeup of Veterans Committees. I don't know that they would meet with a much warmer reception there so I don't know if eventually there will be some sort of PD revisitation reconciliation committee. That might get them in some day. I I don't know but it doesn't look like they're they're going to get there via the traditional method one thing. That's fun about the hall of fame. Now that I'm you know forty. Is that the people who are coming up are people who I existed for their whole careers. I was a fan during their careers and it is fun to put myself in the mindset of of how I felt during during their careers to think. Did I think of them as a hall of Famer at the time and to be in some cases sort of surprise like I don't have any doubt that Scott Rowland should be in the hall of fame. I don't think think I thought that at the time. I don't think I've felt that way at the time. Although there were there were times where I thought that he was one of the the very very best players in the game but for the most part I just thought he was really good and I didn't think that a really good defensive third baseman was probably a was. Probably GonNa make the hall of fame and so Now I look back at it and I re revised but on the other hand like Larry Walker I think I had no doubt I think Larry Walker to felt like a hall of Famer from his Expos. Today's let alone when he was hitting in the three seventies with with Colorado and so It's interesting to see that despite feeling I think I always ah when older players who were on the ballot players whose career predated me and I would see results that I disagreed with. I think that that the the people who were voting shooting were were being swayed too much by their subjective memories of having watched the player but I feel like Larry Walker like the subjective memory of Larry Walkers that he was a hall of Famer and it took a really long time for that to to come true to catch up so so even even if it felt like during the career sometimes the voting starts and those five years just have liked. Changed the memory of a glare. They sorta faded away for some reason that you're not quite clear on. I think flat getting in probably helped Walker to just because if you compare those two it just seems like Walker was the superior player. It's hard to make a case that Vlad was the superior player so once well in also also qualitatively. They were very similar like anything that you pretty much anything. You can say about Vlad in terms of his tools or his variety eighty of skills or how exciting dynamic. You was all those things that made flat so special like if there's anybody who can compete on that pure athletic and like marvelous way way it would be Larry Walker who was also extremely fast and who was also extremely good at putting the bat on the ball and who also had an extremely good arm arm and so very similar in a lot of ways beyond just the value. Yeah and maybe also edgar getting in and even relievers getting in because one of the big mcchicken smokers. The lack of playing time at curt didn't have that many more appearances and of course was Dha. And then. If you'RE GONNA compare playing time to relievers I don't know. Oh how many people make that direct comparison but if you're going to complain about the time that Walker spent on the field then you almost have to factor that in when you're talking about relievers pursue spend a lot less time on the field but yeah I think talking about how players were perceived at the time. That's another thing that mystifies me about vizquel support because it clearly was not perceived as one of the best players in baseball during his career he got. MVP votes one time one time he got MVP votes and he was sixteenth ecksteen. So it's not like the baseball writers said we're watching a hall of Famer here exactly not exactly. It's it's really weird. I mean I never never would have occurred to May the L.. Marvin Scott was a lot of the fiscal cases. The compiling the longevity in the plane forever. So I get why you could say it's not totally inconsistent consistent to say that he was not the best player in any individual year but was good over almost a quarter century fine but he just never was at that level in in any individual year or for any stretch of seasons and I kind of object when someone says that their standard for a players that like he had to be the best player in his league. You get a certain time or he had to be even the best player at a position or something because you know that's arbitrary. There's a different pool players in a league in a position. Some guys you're going up against the the best players of all time it's like Mike. Mussina was a contemporary of Pedro and Mattison Randy Johnson and other people were pitching at times when there was no great dominant inner circle guy like that so that always sort of bothers me evaluate the guy not necessarily who his contemporaries were at that position. And I one thing I hadn't realized until I read Jason starks article about the ballot breakdown is just what a great run. It's been for hall of Famers for no Doubt Hall of famers. This is seven straight years with at least one first ballot guy that streak will come to an end. It's this next year. But that's the second longest streak. There was an eight year run from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety-five but the quantity of first ballot. Guys is unprecedented unprecedented. There were thirteen first ballot guys in these last seven years. And we've never seen anything like that. The most over any previous seven near period was ten guys and not only were there a lot of like almost unanimous guys but there were a lot of ninety percent first ballot guys which is fairly fairly rare in itself. And so we're not gonNA see a whole lot of those not doubters in the next few years because What next year? I already covered not any any great new editions. And then after that there's Ortiz in a rod rate and a Rod. He's GonNa have to wait a while if he ever gets in via voting and Ortiz. He's I assume Ortiz be a first ballot guy although not a unanimous guy I mean. His statistical case isn't totally clear cut and of course he has the report about pd usage but Ortiz just seems immune to all of that everyone loves Ortiz. And then after that. There's what Bell Trae I think A couple years after that and then Beltran in twenty twenty three who probably wouldn't have been a ipad Guy Anyway but Now certainly will not not be in the wake of science dealing and then after that. I guess it's each euro would be th the next person who might have a shot at getting a hundred percent but that's not till twenty twenty-five I think so it's going to be a little bit of a drop not going to be quite as many inductees for the next few years. I'm considering trying to convince is myself that I think Andy Pettitte should be all of famer and getting behind him. I mean I'm not there yet not there. I'm considering I'm considering trying to talk myself off into it and then getting there. Well I grew up watching Andy Pettitte and enjoying Andy Pettitte but even for me not quite. Yeah this this goes back. ACT The I think I've mentioned before where there's like A. There's like a fifteen year gap in which no hall of fame. Pitcher was born unless Andy Pettitte gets there and I just don't know that I believe that can happen. Yeah I don't if you're the best person born in fifteen years at your positions or you know at a whole half of the game game I think maybe I think that you should be in the hall fame and there's a there's a there's a case there it's it's not the strongest case but it's it's a pretty. It's a sign. It's a fine line case. Yeah all right well Curt Schilling will get in right so he must have been born around the same time probably but maybe he might have been before four. I don't remember and showing gets in next year. And he's the only one he's got the whole weekend to talk schiff. Yeah I know. That's the that's the problem. The Huw nobody nobody else no other speeches. Look around and say anybody else okay. I'll just keep Ya. Schilling was born six years before patio and so I think that I think I think there is. I think petted is squarely in the middle of that like whatever fourteen or twelve year. Run or whatever All right okay. And in other news I think our off off-season contracts draft is mercifully over. Now no no pigs nine forty million dollars. Yeah all right I still gotTa Shat yet because Sir you had the under Marcel Zuma's so not only have you been beating me on all these overs. You took these big deals that I at least was not participating for free agents this off season. Not only that you took the under on Marceau's Zuma and I I forget what the MLB trade rumors projection for him was. But I think it was like a four year thing right and instead he signed for one year and eighteen million with the braves so even more fake money for you. I overstated this. Two pitchers from the nineteen seventies are inducted. And nobody else is likely to be from that. So a two two in a decade and it is my position that there should be more than two in a decade so overstated. But I think that you that either the we need to make a choice. Either Andy Pettitte. Or Yoahan's into Johansen Indiana either for the longevity and overall body of You know consistent excellence or Santana for the peak you gotTa pick one or the other I think and or both but Santana's I think off the ballot so so mytalk okay. Yeah I was GONNA three hundred and some million dollar lead over you and I don't have we ever had a contest. Go like this. I don't think so. This is the most lopsided drafter competition competition. I think we've ever done what happened. Boy Yeah as soon as I I certainly thought he would get more than that even with the qualifying Lang offer attached. I guess it could work out for him if he has a decent season goes back into the market next year without a qualifying offer attached but given that people people were expecting a four year. Deal or something for him and that he had to settle for this in this market. Where almost everyone else seems to be doing pretty well? He's he's such a confounding funding player because he's the guy who has this giant gap between his stat cast expected stats and his actual stats. which are fine But except for that one year not really remarkable and he's even kind of confusing on defense because he used to be a great fielder and now it seems like he's a lousy field there. Yeah but they're still some disagreement depending on the defensive system but the offense is is really the most mystifying because he hits the ball so hard that he has like one of the highest expected weighted on base averages and one of the biggest gaps or I think literally the biggest gap in two thousand nineteen between the expected and the actual and it seems like the theory on why that is is that he tends to hit the ball hard but not in the optimal direction like you would expect that. Maybe he'd be pounding the ball into the ground and that would be the problem that he'd be too much of a ground ball cap but that's not really it so it seems like he may be just slices the ball a lot and and expected weighted on base which mostly considers how hard you hit and the vertical ankle at which you hit. It might be overestimating how how good he is because he just hits the ball to a bad part of the ballpark in so he crushes it but doesn't get the sort of results that you would expect based on Nadan. It seems like a multi season trend with him that he is kind of denied. The so I don't know how many players there would be like that. But he's almost like the the hitter equivalent of a fifth beating Pitcher who just has like globus except I guess the other direction because he is underperforming relative to what you'd expect so it's sort of strange I guess the market is not expecting him to be what his expected stats. Were it's expected him to be what his actual stats. Were which are okay but Nothing special so the braves sort of replaced Josh Donaldson's Bat with him but not to the degree that you would think if you look at certain yeah I haven't seen whether there's been a updates on this but I know as of a couple of years ago ago. It was somewhat mystifying. Or I don't know surprising to me counterintuitive that Jonathan Judge had founded baseball prospectus that the expected stats. I don't actually predict very well while it seems like they should be more predictive than regular stats. They're they're not and I don't know if that's true. That was just one article from a couple of years ago and maybe maybe things have been refined or maybe the numbers Washed out in different ways since then. Or maybe people found instance but seemed to be at at the time that if you're a player who underperforms you're expected stats that's what you're you're a player who underperforms you're expected stats so it'll be interesting to see over the next decade or so whether that stays true because obviously that's one of the great hopes of stat cast is that it will give us a lot higher confidence in projecting players future performance because we're are stripping away even more of the locking getting closer and closer to their true they're true tools a talent levels but maybe not all right. So there's been Nolan millionnaire Nado drama but May Be discussed that with meg next time we talk and the mets reportedly have hired the replacement for Carlos Beltran. And who is There runner-up one of their runner ups before they hired Beltran Louis. Ross who was a minor league manager for years and had interviewed with them and was their quality control coach which seems like a perfectly reasonable replacement but I guess unless you have anything else pressing on your mind you want to just go straight to your step list. Yeah it's about Larry Walker okay. It two I stumbled upon this by accident. I'm and I'm I'm sure that in articles on online everybody has seen this fun in fact a million times but he is the first Colorado Rocky to play even a single game as Iraqi to make the hall of fame. Did you see that I didn't but yeah that makes sense. Does it shouldn't surprise me that much right. I mean he's obviously he's the first Iraqi that's being inducted as rocky. This is the first player to ever play a single game as Iraqi that they are the only team in baseball. That did not have a hall of Famer who played on their team at at some point and so that sorta blew my mind and then I started wondering well. How much should it blow my mind in so I dug into that just a little bit so first things first I went back to nineteen twenty so in the the last century so anybody that was playing in the fake baseball years? I'm leaving those those things out. So in the last century the dodgers have had the most hall of famers appear in their uniform. Thirty eight of them. The Yankees are next at thirty six. So those two teams aren't surprising although the order is slightly surprising. And then you've got you know all the teams all the non expansion teams just sort of go down the line and got the giants third the braves fourth red SOx fifth tied with the cubs. Actually the braves red sox and the cubs are all tied. And there's not not a ton of difference between these franchises or the cubs braves and red sox are all thirty at whereas the all time franchise over the past centuries the Yankees and they only have thirty six. So it's all pretty tightly grouped but the rockies are the only team that had zero even though the three other teams entered the league through expansion either alongside them or or or after them so the Marlins who joined the lead the same time the rockies did. They've had five hall of famers appear on their team. Andre Dawson Trevor Hoffman Mike. Piazza Piazza Tim. Raines and Yvonne reason I mean yes those are not like. We're not talking all time. MARLINS their oven Rodriguez. I think played played the one year Tim Raines played. Blake next to nothing. Mike Piazza played five games. which is gonNA come up in a later part of this dat cat? Trevor Hoffman. was there before. He was a padre and Andre Dawson. Andre Dawson was so what on the expansion team I think and was part of part of them for a little bit so they had five the diamondbacks have to Roberto Alamar and Randy Johnson not exactly equals in diamondbacks and the Tampa Bay. Rays of course famously had wade boggs but the rockies it took them twenty seven years. I too have their first hall of Famer Twenty-seven Years Maybe Twenty eight depends how you count years and so I looked at all the expansion teams since nineteen sixty one to see how many years it took before their first hall of Famer to see if the rockies are really that out of the ordinary and they are somewhat out of the ordinary but they are not the most extreme so the rays are the fastest expansion team to get a hall of Famer again famously Wade boggs who they essentially essentially signed in order to be their first hall of Famer so he was inducted. Just seven years after the race were formed as a franchise. So they're the the only team that had a hall of Famer within a decade. The next is the mets. who had Yogi Berra now? We should stop there for a second Yogi. Berra was inducted. Ten years after the mets played their first game. So that's the second fastest Yogi Berra is also in a little sub list that I have here which is players who played fewer in five games with the team that I'm counting them. As so tim. Raines played four games with the orioles might be played five with the Marlins Orlando Cepeda played. It's three with the as Ray schalk played two for the giants and then Yogi Berra who played four games with the mets at age forty. He was a coach basically basically for them. This was after his one years the Yankees manager after he'd retired he very briefly played while he was one of their coaches at age. Forty and so you could. I'd say that doesn't really count for the mets. Because Yogi bear only played four games and went to nine on the other hand. He was their their coaching their their manager. So it's not like he was just passing through in that sense either so anyway the mets ten years and then the norm is about thirteen to seventeen years so the diamondbacks thirteen years. The MARLINS Orleans seventeen years the padres seventeen years the astros fourteen years. The brewers thirteen years the mariners. Fourteen years the royals fifteen years. Those are all teams that we're between thirteen and seventeen years. Then you have. The Blue Jays took twenty years. The Angels Twenty One and then the rockies twenty-seven but there are two teams that took even longer the Washington winton senators slash Texas. Rangers took thirty years before their first hall of Famer and they actually had to inducted the same year. Fergie Jenkins and Gaylord. Perry were both elected the same year a thirty years after the Rangers supply after the senators played their first game and then the expos actually took thirty one years. There I hall of Famer was Tony Perez so the rockies. It's it's a long time. But it's not a freakishly longtime so that is probably. There's probably none of these details. Probably Matter Gorkhas Larry Walker made it and so they're no longer on any sort of interesting chase All right cool glad. They broke their draft and pre French. Serves a Hullah favor or at least to see one for a few games at some point. Yeah you would think that there was nothing particularly special about the rockies twenty-seven years it's not how to record or anything like that on the other you would think that there would be a it would be a lot easier to get a first hall of Famer in This Day and age than it would have been in the sixties and seventies when the senators in the expos. Were beginning their play. I just because there's more there's more player movement and teams employ a lot more people those days as well Roster more people throughout the course of a season more turnover from season to season. And so I don't know while while the rockies are not a notable notable expansion team by the standards of these fourteen expansion things they might be. I don't know maybe no expansion team in the future will ever go this long. They might be the last asked him to go this long. Perhaps all right. Let's take a few questions. This is from John Patriots supporter given that the Astra signs. Doing ailing scandal all started with Mike. Fires going on record. Is it crazy to imagine a player who is called in to be released or demoted threatening his bosses that he would expose the teams teams cheating scheme. Would it work and what would be the ramifications. Could a guy keep his roster spot with a cheating team by using blackmail. Well so you're GonNa hear me probably mostly read an answer that you've probably already read not okay so in theory. Could it work if a bunch of things. He's went right in theory. Maybe it could but the downside here for the player is just massive. I mean you would be idle John. I thought that if you did if you get caught cheating you risk a suspension if you get caught blackmailing your team by weaponising. They're cheating then. I think you would probably quite possibly get banned from the game for life because in on the one hand as I put it cheating needs to be policed and punished but it falls within the distorted vision of a baseball players competitive mission weaponising cheating in order to force team to make non-competitive personnel decisions. However feels like something more akin to throwing a baseball game? It's essentially overturning overturning. The mission in order to benefit oneself. Personally so I think that you could get banned for life for that but I mean even if you didn't get banned for life you would not get another job in baseball ever again. And that's the thing that the club ultimately has well the the league the body of of teams the industry ultimately has is a Lotta leverage over players. Because they're going to probably be working for the League for like thirty or forty more years. There's a long line of jobs after you retire higher and if you ever WanNa work in the game again you're going to get to game is going to welcome you with a bail hug. And then they're going to pay you you for thirty or forty years to coach to scout to work in player development to work in a front office to broadcaster to be an ambassador to do whatever ever it takes to keep you part of the family and if you do something like this you would have none of that you would be unemployed for the rest of your life and you would do it all so that you could work for a team that you really weren't good enough to be on anyway so it doesn't really seem like a player. Would think this through considerate in his best interests. Besides it being coming he also be a miserable situation in the short term if you could do it without notifying all your teammates that you were doing it if you could go over their heads if you could just say this to the GM or the owner or something and and get them to apply pressure to the manager not to you than and and maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But if the majer new if the coaches new and of course if your teammates new than you would just be ostracized or worse. Yes Asahara situated to be in which I mean maybe it be worst the major league salary and and the job security. If you thought that you were never gonNA we'll be back in the big leagues if you were like a fringe player who thinks this is my only chance. And maybe if I stay up here and I do well than some some other team will want me. Although even in that case I wonder probably the would be poisoned there because if some other team wanted to sign you I wonder if your previous b-best team would sort of tell that team. Hey they'd be wary because they do. They wouldn't want to disclose that they were cheating. Obviously but they'd figure figure out a way to impugn your character reasonably in in some ways so you'd be blackballed or miserable and just probably wouldn't be worth the staying on the big league roster in the short term unless I guess you think it's your only chance at ever being in the big leagues again. You have some other post baseball plan. Where baseball just doesn't matter that much to you or you just need to support yourself in your family in the short term and that's your only concerns but not that many players in that very specific situation probably yeah? I'm reading this book right now. Called a house for Mr Biswas and one of the characters is is Mr Biswas and he does not do something that his his wife wants to like. Invite the family to bless their new house and he fights with her. He hates her family and so he says is no and he thinks like well you know he's in a he's in a very patriarchal society and so he has like in his mind. He has all the power to say no out of this but his what he lives with his wife and so she just very very like easily deconstructs his sanity bike blowing her nose every time he's he's about to drift off to sleep and so every time like he's about to fall asleep and she just blows her nose and she does that for a few days and then finally caved and all all it takes. If you're that close to somebody is finding a very exposed pressure point and my guess is that even if you thought you got your boss like you you do. You know. He's got a he's got employees because you're black nailing him I guess is he can make your life really really really really miserable to the point that it would be invisible Zabol to any other outsider. You would have no like lawsuit or anything like that and Just it'd be a series of humiliations until you wanted to flee and all so that you can fail in front of fans because you're not good enough to make the team probably. Yeah all right and you can't even feel morally superior to the team that you're threatening learning to read out because you're just using that to your own advantage so Kenny we have we have really passionately advocated to this hypothetical. Go player why he should not do it. We're really we've been on this topic awhile now. We've made multiple arguments for a player who does not exist to facing a decision that does not exist. Yeah by all means report it to someone go public but but using it to your own. Advantage is It's probably I'm not going to be to your own advantage in the long run. All right Anthony also Patriot supporter. Says not sure if you saw this pole just popped up in the facebook group about which chizzy picker advantage steroids or the being scheme. I agree with most that the answer that seems like it should be right is the banging but based on the numbers. It's almost certainly only the steroids right. I just looked back. Through a bunch of known steroid users pitches and almost across the board their WRC pluses went up thirty to fifty points for the banging slash alleged buzzing scheme to have been more beneficial to the hitters than steroids. The Astros Roster must have been full of average or below average hitters and. I asked him just to clarify pages he looked at and he mentioned bonds and Sosa and mcgwire he also mentioned a couple other sort of suspected sturridge seasons that aren't actually proved steroid seasons but as he said just bonds alone and his career arc may be is enough to make a case for steroids. But I know that you answered this one. Be a Patriot as well. Yes I did so I read that. I think I agree with you. I I saw your answer to this and I think it's pretty much in line with what I would say so. I guess you can read or cribbed from that all right. I said that the evidence for steroids helping thing is generally cloudy or underwhelming although the anecdotal evidence though quite probably cherry-picked is overwhelming the evidence for the banging schemes helping is nonexistence assistance and arguably provides only evidence that it hurts and this includes the anecdotal evidence of participants who voluntarily quit doing it if MLB investigations are accurate. It given all that I would probably take the cloudy evidence and say that. Yes what we've observed points to steroids helping more however like you I would agree that the answer earth that seems like it should be right is the banging until there is good clean well modeled research. I can't overrule my gut. I remained conflicted. So what I'm basically saying is that there's not a lot of evidence for either one being not a lot of convincing evidence. A lot of evidence that I would take to the bank for either one being as significant as I think that it would be an in the absence of that evidence. I kinda just lean back I go back to my priors and assume that the banging should would be more helpful and probably is and I would like I would I would take. It would take a lot of evidence for me to be convinced. Is that not that the banging scheme didn't help and while there is not any evidence that it did help it would take a lot of evidence that it didn't help before I really gave up on that. Yeah Yeah Rob Arthur has shown some evidence that may be the esters ability to lay off. Pitches or swing at the right pitches. Improved Someone significantly around the time that they started the banging scheme. The results didn't change so dramatically. And it's not inconceivable that that could have happened anyway but that's something you you could point to again. I mean the astros just seem really good regardless in their twenty nineteen offense. Vince was incredible. When as far as we know based on Abe's findings they weren't cheating or weren't cheating in the same way? So it's it's true that like there's there's no bonds level evidence for the banging scheme being beneficial but the steroid evidences sort of murky to and in many many ways this situation is analogous to the PD era and the PD backlash. I think Gee Jaffe wrote about some of the perils of differences there but in the sense that this was something that was going on that the league had some awareness of and didn't really take steps to stop as early as it could have and then acted it is if it's terrible when the news actually becomes public and it becomes a black eye for baseball and then you start getting suspensions and everything but with signs sign stealing. You can't test someone. There's drug test you can administer to see if someone was stealing signs and you can't really give a lie detector test. I guess you could right but those don't seem very reliable anyway so it's a little different in that respect but it's also similar in the sense that everyone sort of assumes that it has a huge effect act but at least in some cases it certainly doesn't seem to and with the PD players. I think the evidence for PD's instead mister it's helping a there are singular guys who really seemed to benefit at the same time that they built up and we know that they were doing this stuff and they're aging curves are just so a typical that they got incredibly better at an age when players get worse. That's really the most compelling evidence. Yes I think for. The effect of steroids on the whole is that that whole era was really strange and an outlier in terms of the aging patterns of players and the fact that players aged more gracefully. And we're good at later ages during that PD era that is probably the best evidence that it really was working in a big way. Of course that's hitters. Were talking about and pitchers were taking the stuff too so tart to square that but I think that really stands out as okay. This is the smoking gun that this era was different. Because of that. Because you can't necessarily just look at the level of offense because there were other things going on at that time too and maybe the ball had changed and so it's hard to isolate the effects there but yet you can't point to a single player. Her as evidence of science doings effectiveness the way that you can with Steroids Barry Bonds. Let's say so in that sense not as clear cut case as but I agree as you said as Alex would tweeted that it seems like knowing what pitch is coming should be more advantageous. I guess yes unless the way that you find out which pitches coming is somehow more distracting than not knowing in the first place. Yeah or yeah exactly so. There are three three kind of assumptions. That if you're trying to find the effect on the Astros you have three assumptions that you can make based on MLB findings. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think these are all in mobis finding so we know when it started right. We know that it did not start. It was not happening in two thousand sixteen or even the first month of two thousand seventeen so we know no one it started. We basically know when it ended when we know if MLB's investigation is accurate that they weren't doing it in two thousand nineteen right and we we know that the Astros claim that they quit doing it on their own because it wasn't working right or because they felt like it wasn't working so those are three fairly powerful will in two cases they give us the parameter so it's very easy to study before and after Ele I guess the fourth thing is that we know that the scheme that the scheme as it was designed was only at home well to begging scheme was only at home things seem is only at home the replay room video monitor stuff was presumably everywhere everywhere. Although that would only be effective with a runner on second base right yeah so it. It's less less elaborate. And less all encompassing sort of stealing. Yeah so so. And so that would not apply to most pitches. And so you were talking about. You know. Ten Times as many pitches at home as as on the road and so given all those you you know three of those give you kind of control group not a pure control group but before and after or a homeless away and the fourth one is just you know pretty powerful data like the one of the things that you could always say about steroids. If you tried to argue that. They weren't that you know well. The research hasn't shown as much instrument affect as you would think. Well then why did all these players WanNa take it where they just all dumb where they just all under this like you know delusion so in the same way though. It's kind of powerful that the Astros would have stopped doing it when they didn't have to. It's powerful evidence that maybe they actually didn't feel as comfortable doing it so anyway. The the point being though that we don't know of any of those four things are true like what were stuck in this state of having like a lot of really good information mation but not actually knowing that we have all the accurate information. Maybe some of this stuff was lying. Maybe it was. It was incompletely reported. Maybe the you know. Maybe he didn't really want to investigate much more than that. And so we'll never really know whether we actually have the right information about those things and so even though it seems like we have these great assumptions. You can't really assume you can't put too much weight on any of them It's also possible that if they really did stop doing it because they thought it wasn't working as well anymore which you have to take with a slight grain of salt there because that's sort of a self serving explanation but even if that really was the reason it could be because other teams teams had adjusted and were obscuring their signs and so it just wasn't working as well anymore whereas with steroids. PD's there's nothing that another team really can do to counter that so that's possible too although there were other players in that report who said that it was distracting. And that's it's why they didn't think it was as effective as as you would assume but again they would say that. Yeah they would they would go. Yeah like I think maybe be you and make mentioned lots of people from the steroids era. WHO also did a lot of steroids would say for a decade? That didn't really help them. Yeah Yeah Yeah like McGuire said that I guess what he said was that it didn't help him. Hit more home runs but it seemed like he was saying that didn't give him the ability to but it took it for like health reasons and to stay on the fields. which even if it were only that it's still helped you hit home home runs because it helped you be in the lineup? So that's not completely consistent but anyway all right one more here. This is from Jacob also patriots supporter. When does baseball history and I remember from college having conversations about when history and did that is how long in the relative if passed an event had to have happened for it to be a historical event and not a current event? I promise this as a real historic graphical question there even articles about it and he likes us to one point being that a certain amount of time needs to go by before the dust settles and the participants fade away so that people can consider something with historical sobriety. I've traditionally held at Baseball and sports in general doesn't work that way. Anything in the past at least anything in previous season is history when someone is the first person in history to do a baseball thing. We mean ever not ever minus the last ten years. We generally don't differentiate much between recent past and ancient history. Although I guess in in your case you consider baseball history to have begun in nineteen eighty eight or real modern baseball history and continues. I've had a couple of things. Come up that have made me question that lately league I was Salmon Benz conversation about the Astros signed stealing and how it felt different than the white sox story from the eighties because the 2017 world series is less historical as the players involved are all still down. The team is largely intact and the dust hasn't settled. So how far back would we need to go for it to feel like a historical event with twenty twenty ten feet long enough. Two thousand five second has been the hall of fame voting because the hall is Baseball's Loan Allowance for historical epoch. Making you can't get inducted until five years after playing which is weird because baseball is otherwise so eager to end history. Yesterday is five years ago the time it takes to render something historical in baseball if the the giants had cheated to beat the royals and the twenty fourteen world series. Had We feel about learning that now so when this baseball history and in your mind's Well when does it end in your mind. Well already seen what your which colors my opinion on this. So if I hadn't seen your answer I don't know I probably would've said something nebulous about if the team is still intact like if the players are still in the same place and and that cuts but that would be much more recent than my answer. My answer was yes essentially when all when all the players with with maybe an exception or two you are are retired. So they're they are no longer active. They can no longer be running around sprightly being elite athletes on a baseball field. They have to be a Retired and therefore of the past. And so you can have an exception. I think I like Albert. Pools for instance has been playing since two thousand one and he's still playing playing but I set the date at I think I I think I've come down on in in the current moment. Two thousand five is the most recent year of of actual history that the white sox winning that world series that world series those four starters all that to me that feels like history. I'm I'm on the fence about the two thousand six two thousand seven seasons. I could go as late as two thousand seven. I think though that two thousand eight is history to me. Two Thousand Eight is still current. Yeah well maybe there's a subjective personal element to this. Where like I remember? Mike pesca talking on the gist. He was interviewing a couple history. Professors serves and he was saying how to him everything before he was born. Basically feels like history or ancient history. Like there's no clear distinction in his is mind between things that happened two hundred years before he was born in two years before he was born in in terms of how much they feel like history to him as opposed to the present and and so I could see how for some fans something that happened in their lifetime or something that happened when they were a really active baseball fan or in our case I guess something that we covered or were aware of during the time that we were professionally writing and thinking about baseball maybe that affects your your perception of when the cutoff for history is so. I think there's something to that. Like if I remember seeing it and it still in I I don't know colored. TV and it's HD. And I was around in the world that the time. Maybe that's something that would influence me to some extent but I think your Roth is pretty good because yeah if I found out something about the two thousand five world series. I don't know if I found out that that team was cheating that to me. That's just it seems recent enough in my mind that that might still seem like a story to me but I think like the Astros is is different like finding out about something that happened in twenty seventeen in two thousand nineteen. I think that's even different from finding about something that happened in say twenty thirteen in two thousand nineteen just because like we know that next season we're going to be watching that team and those players. It's largely the same people and there's something about that that I think is different from even if it had been just a few years earlier but I it's it's probably like a might. Just be kind of like a linear curve rate where the amount of outrage and the degree to which it would feel like a scandal and drama would just kind of fall off slowly by year rate like I doubt it would be like Oh it was twelve years ago ho-hum and whereas Was Eleven years ago. This is something we care about. It might just sort of slowly tail off so I don't know that anyone would think of it in these terms of that was history and this is not but but I like your if all the players are gone then it seems like almost well there. There's no victim who still around to sort of pity or perpetrators to be angry at them. Yeah I believe that Brandon McCarthy was the final player ear from two thousand five white sox to retire and he is retired so I drank that they are now in the past. All right then I re I just I just read the the relevant section of the Commissioner's report and so I had a misunderstanding here so just to clarify. We don't know why they quit doing the banging scheme or maybe we do. But it's not in the paragraph that I'm reading I I don't know it so I don't mean to a represented that we do know it prior to the two thousand eighteen season. Okay so now. We're in two thousand eighteen. The investigate okay. So the investigation uncovered no evidence that Astros players utilize the banging scheme in two thousand eighteen. However the Astros Replay Review Room staff continued for at least part of the two thousand eighteen season but at some point during the two thousand eighteen season the astros stopped using the replay review room to the code signs because the players no longer believed it was effective and so they did not necessarily summarily voluntarily? quit doing the banging scheme. We don't know why they quit doing that. Maybe they thought they were can get caught. Maybe it became technically impossible. They voluntarily or at least according to the report I quit doing the replay reviews scheme which is a much again like a much smaller subset of pitches and quite possibly is not worth the trouble especially because in order to relay the signs to the batter. You have to do something visible to everybody and on camera which might not seem that different than banging trash can that the whole stadium can here her But DOES SEEM TO BE PRETTY I. It's a little risky and so so to clarify that. Yeah is it clear in the report just to clarify in my mind at least whether they only did the being scheme at home or whether they did some equivalent of that everywhere. Yeah yeah so it's not that I see. Explicitly stated in the way that it is described is consistent with the way that it is described in the original reporting the athletic which that reporting said that it was only used at home. However the way that it's described doesn't make it clear that it was only used at home and it doesn't doesn't make it clear that it couldn't have been used on the road and so yeah? It's I think there's room here to to say that we don't know for sure right. So they were using a a feed from the center field camera and according to this the Centerfield camera was primarily used for player development purposes and was allowed under. MLB rules at at the time when used for that purpose it doesn't explicitly say that a visiting team wouldn't have access to that Centerfield camera although if it is something that was allowed for player development purposes and. I'm not sure that they would but the camera itself was okay. What was not okay was using it for science dealing in putting the monitor up the tunnel to relay the signs in real time so I don't know whether they would have been able to install a video monitor? You're in the tunnel in a visiting clubhouse when they were just there for a single series or something. So I guess it's not conclusive. It's sort of suggested that this this was at home but doesn't conclusively rule out the idea that they were doing something other than the video. Room Monitor elsewhere. Yeah okay all all right. I had one more question left on my sheet of questions to answer here so I will do it. Solo this is from. Stephanie are Patriots supporter. I have a question about baseball and politics. Politics as you pointed out one congressman called for congressional hearings unsigned stealing and since then the city of Los Angeles my beloved crazy hometown approved a unanimous resolution to strip the Astros and red sox off their titles and award them to the dodgers rob Manfred by the way said. No thanks. This got me thinking it seems like politicians are more likely to wade into into baseball and other sports. Is that true if so why. Why is baseball more appealing to politicians? Then say football or other popular. US sports so first of all. I'll say I don't know if it's true. It does seem sort of true to me but I follow baseball disproportionately and so I would be much more aware of baseball stories like this than I would have other stories. So I'm not going to completely corroborate this impression but I will say that if it is true. I have a few theories for why that would be so for one thing. Baseball has a pretty pretty old white audience may be even an old white male audience and there are a lot of old white and old white male politicians so just demographically speaking. They might be predisposed to be more interested in baseball than other sports. It's also true. That older people vote at a higher rate and so politicians might think their constituents are are more interested in baseball than some other sports. There's also baseball's antitrust exemption which is something that sets it apart from other sports and gives congress and excuse to stick its nose into baseball's business and lastly I would say that even though baseball is maybe not literally America's national pastime anymore it is called the national pastime it sort of tied up with the country's history in unique ways expression as American as baseball and Apple Pie and so because baseball is so closely associated with American history and American values. I think that makes it even easier for politicians to point out problems with baseball sometimes sanctimoniously but I think because of that connection. There is a sort of idealistic Eddie. Listrik way of thinking about baseball that maybe isn't applied as often to other sports. It's also true that there's a lot of baseball language. What a baseball metaphors that are used by politicians Titians? I've mentioned a great grantland article on that subject by Bryan Curtis which will link to again on the show page today so those are my theories. Hope that helps Stephanie. I don't know enough to say whether it's been more public funding of baseball ballparks than there has been of other sorts of sports stadiums that might be another recent but that does bring to mind another possible reason which is that there are just more markets in the country with professional baseball in them because of the minor leagues and how many Minor League teams are in. There's no exact equivalent of the Minor Leagues Leagues for other sports and so baseball does directly impact more communities than other sports in this country. Do I suppose you could say at least on the professional level so that could be another cause of some of the political interest. By the way I meant to mention when Sam gave his facetious hypothetical earlier about voter who would not vote for Peter out of protest because because bobby glitches and in our Lou Whitaker is in. If someone were to do that I would not consider that a valid reason to withhold a vote for jeeter not really fair to punish jeeter for voters bad decisions about other candidates in the past if someone were doing that as sort of a message non vote. You'd think that they would have disclosed their ballot publicly so that they could make a cause of it I could see some value in that in certain years again if unanimity doesn't really matter that much. It's kind of a victimless crime. And you just wanted to stumped for Lou Whitaker and say hey this is comparable player. He fell off. The ballot is still not in the hall. You know you're going to get a ton of publicity if you're the one person who didn't vote for Jeeter and so it might actually be somewhat effective if you could lay out a strong case for why Whitaker and jeeter are similar or equivalent. And so you're just doing it for the publicity I almost. I admire that in a way I wonder if it would backfire. And people would just be mad at Lou whittaker for causing nece. Unwittingly but if someone didn't vote for Jeeter just because they're so small hall that Turkey doesn't deserve induction in their minds. That's just an unreasonable standard. That I don't think anyone should have all right so that will do it for today. I didn't get to explain Any baseball Internet news to Sam today of sort of enjoyed that it's been like a reply. All Yes yes no episode where I tell him. WHO's on vacation? What's going on on baseball twitter and try tried to translate that to him but I think next time with meg? We'll get into the NERONHA drama. ABC Felix Hernandez signing if. She has thoughts about that. And whatever else happens in the next day or two you can support effectively wild on Patriots by going to Patriot dot com slash effectively wild. The flowing listeners have already signed up and pledge some moment the amount of help keep podcast going and get themselves access to perks. Mark Black Saccharine Bartley Henry Decker James Edmonston and Jeff. Thanks thanks to all of you. You can join our facebook group FACEBOOK DOT com slash groups such of the wild you can rate review and subscribed to effectively wild on itunes and other podcasts platforms. It keeps your questions and comments for me and salmon meg coming via email at podcast van. GRAPHS DOT COM or b the Patriot missile system. If you are next higgins for his editing living assistance and we'll be back with one more episode a little later this week. Talk to you. Never know when your Ed and lets it Eh.

baseball Larry Walker Famer Tim Raines Derrick jeeter Andy Pettitte Andre Dawson Trevor Hoffman Mi Derek jeter rockies twitter mets Billy Wagner Patriot Bly Levin Karina Longworth Marlins dodgers braves Curt Schilling
81: The Last Splash with Karina Longworth

Night Call

58:13 min | 1 year ago

81: The Last Splash with Karina Longworth

"Successes and the lessons they've learned along the way I made about thirty thousand dollars were not going to be able to afford to keep the house eventually my credit cards I'm Samantha Bari the Editor in Chief of Glamour in our new podcast she makes money moves Yulia women from across the country sharing their personal stories about their salaries financial struggle welcome to night call a production of iheartradio it's eleven thirty nine. PM On main is but it can detect food digest it it also has seven hundred twenty sexes can move without legs or wings and heals itself when cut in half the ribbon worms have you guys ever seen these videos oh it's really upsetting there are these C- worms that live live like yellow lace yeah it kind of has a coral like of parents it's sorta cloudy and sort of link brain lake in its structure withstand the pressure or the lack of pressure I guess at sea level and so they kind of become really red and inflamed and then they oh up there digestive system cool and it it looks like that it looks like the sort of Lacey thing that Kinda shoots out but it's actually a Russian deep sea fishermen would have yeah I think he might have maybe had one of those I can't remember definitely looks like a sea sponge or something it looks very much like an underwater yeah hello and welcome to night call podcast for your strange days and lonely nights I'm in Los Angeles and I'm test Lynch with me as always are Molly Lambert and Emily the USA and you're listening tonight call Oh and it apparently learns to sleep well Josh I will sleep well because I love this blob I'm obsessed with it looks kind from Josh says hi this may be too soon following the worm is on its but but the Para Su has a blob the has no mouth no stomach and Ashida guys we've special guest coming later on yes but before we have our special guest we have another special guest fungus looking thing well they don't know if it's a fungus earn animal when you click on the link doesn't get less scary is a it's a collection of Eunice cellular it's we it's hard to tell when you look at the pictures I thought that it was that the log on was part of the BLOB but I think it's just the kind of I really like at the bottom of the ocean there are some viral videos that went around where and if you bring them up to to sea level they're not really built to you can mush two of them together and what one has learned will be transmitted to the newly formed Blob and that you can cut it up and it'll come back together but like what organisms Cli mold yeah I don't know if this is a time lapse or not but that kind of branching thing that is as it moves around it does look like is it learn what does what did you one thing I feel like it should be a master of is because it uh-huh this is my favorite science news of the year we got a lot of requests for the BLOB certainly but we'll read a nightmare it basically killing itself to try to find a light sad but it's also kind of like yeah awesome not in the sense it's crews yeah or like a mold or something can learn rate they didn't give enough information about the learning because yeah they say that you can early has seven hundred twenty six's what does that mean okay so that means the seven hundred twenty sexes are really mating types as explained right it was a thread one of my favorite twitter accounts NYC southpaw It was like what is this and then how to a clip from an article from J. Store where they were like basically it is when he genders I tell them I want to know them all that rules yeah I love things that are in between species well that's like that kind of stuff like coral and sponges which is like really in this like weird gray area between being an animal and being a plan is it's like so hard to wrap your brain around so cool about seven hundred twenty sources of mitochondrial DNA available to the blob any of which can combine with another also because it like can learn from the experience of having been cut in half presumably and it can learn new tactics to avoid being cut in half so essentially like by being able to continually merge with other Bob's it could be completely yeah initiative giant organism made up of a billion tiny little omniscient organisms it mascot should we take another science icebreaker thinks so this also from live science our favorite source of science news vetted vetted and forget it for this story is by Stephanie Pompous it's a scientist implant false memories into bird brains this one blew my mind even more than the blob thing because even possible presented very matter of fact it's the scientists have taught little birds space like isn't a thing that we recognize as being like an animal that we know open it's totally believable as like space goo would be some sentient space goo well it's like the by the way it was so weird because I just recorded the blob it was that Blob for a minute the horror movie planting fifty eight the Blo Blob I love that movie it's is kind of to see if they could teach nonverbal humans to speak by kind of bypassing any therapy and going directly into the brain which I suppose could be good used opted genetics which is basically kind of pulsing light to control the birds brain cells and I think there's there's a quote from live science by pulsing light in a rhythm the researchers were able to encode memories in the finches brains such that the birds notes would match the duration of the light pulses it was as if a father figure were making these and we don't know what they are it seems like it must've been like very ain't like it's one of these things that must be like super ancient it's just one of these very rudimentary life it useful but we're kind of cynical maybe not did we I don't know if we talked about it on the show but there was another article about some experimental military technology kind of scary aspects of the Terminator but without a human body identify with it's just the metal coming here is that you can't arms that also feels like hyper advancing start thinking like uh-huh why because we were like it's going to take the bob well yeah I mean they didn't name it after or like a transmitting information I mean I know I don't know if you've been watching country music still but there was a radio station memorize a tune without ever learning it and they did so by implanting memories of the songs in the birds Breen's okay so basically what is really as a zebra finches produce a vote I think I read it like four times that makes sense and I think that's new is yeah I can I can wrap my head around that versus when I thought it was seven university month Oh for sure we don't know if it's an animal it's just a thing or friend yeah it can be the night call mascot yeah very close a fungus we might Dan that this guy this crazy guy started just on the other side of the Mexican border that was like a super transmitter station that was like the signal was the WHO received a radio station through his I think I think it was his landline and he lost his mind and covered his house in Tinfoil Whoa in always I remember that we live near a radio transmitter that was at the time Radio Disney and so anytime on a landline phone you'll come here just to like have your your your credit card and you're like getting texted getting a vibration on your body apple watches so much I'm still shocked hi friends I've been a big fan since the girls and hoodies days I've been going through your archive and wanted to share my personal my phone is a spy experience I was listening to another cast where they made a joke about Swedish fish candy they may be said the brand four times I laughed a lot for several minutes I never said the words Swedish fish nor retold the it to anyone yet one day later there were ads for Swedish fish on my facebook account this was terrifying have any of you received ads for something you never googled north Israel Manchurian candidate I think will be taxed each other with our brains within the next thirty years let something about people getting chips implanted. Nothing's did Oh oh yeah nations for the bird to memorize but no father finch was president got involved really interesting about it is so I guess scientists were doing this that was about like beaming sound messages to people from far away so that it's like you can hear it inside your brain I remember that stuff just the people are starting to do the the credit card stuff and personal information don't do that yeah clouds so nine don't do that I was already against apple watches like using Apple Watch are I feel like what what was the thing I'm trying to remember what you're talking about though with the sound waves like like triggering a memory a hearing it but I don't know it's also but it's also kind of hard to something like Swedish fish where it's obviously you're not listening to a podcast it's like those Swedish fish podcast but oh scary it's really scary it takes a long time to get into its freakiness thanks yeah I like movies like that and the remake said but heard through your phone via podcasts or other audio thanks nightfall April I mean I'm almost positive I have since I'm sure yeah I confused just talking about nonsense listening to non fan just by my own media consumption habits that are probably weird and confusing I am friends with people who have up I'm not friends with anyone anymore so you can push them over so that their watch will hit the ground chatter doing them a favor awash research and confirm it king of things listening to you and you listening to things it should we take nyquil yes okay this one comes from April it would do something that's inescapable like that that just feels like it's in the air that's being transmitted through your phone line or through like the furniture in your house or something that would make you go crazy yeah what disrupt then what if it trained you to sing a song right right that's that's how that's how when you pop songs this service people being we will give you whatever we hear okay but theoretically ring has issued a statement claiming that they don't it's up to you to believe it or not that's what we're going to be one day you can't wait Borg my height but for good causes the Blob are animal of the that's it and you would hear radio show it like transmit through your body's I'd be foreshadowing our guests but I got Radio Disney through my phone the ads and stuff but it's also like that's just the content that I crave anyway so I don't know I can't really differentiate it but I feel like I feel like there have been definitely I like to keep taping things much more you need to do to make that happen now it's like everyone is carrying a free surveillance device on them all yeah faintly like Britney Spears because it was in the late nineties early which explains a lot about me obviously I had an acquaintance I mean I guess it makes it depends maybe if you're listening to it on speakerphone which I'm half the time if I listened to a podcast I'm just listening to it on speakerphone or lake in my car so my phone would be strongest like I don't think it's even legal to make a signal this strong anymore but it was like so strong that in nearby farms if you had a fence like a metal fence you could you could deserve microphones and cameras like what would it take to actually get back to a crazy just to think about like in the Watergate era when people surveillance devices out of my life I want I was just thinking about it today because I was like I went for a walk without my phone and I felt so relaxed and I was just like what if I was earned a saying from their father's baby zebra finches are taught by their fathers they're so cute or so some of the cutest birds so scientists use first time you're like I feel like I know it all because it's been too ready sounds like a good gingy Ito store right I'm GonNa go work on this Royal Air Look it'll change and in a way it becomes like more invincible heals itself because it can learn because each new blob becomes a big blob again it because so scary it remained pretty Gross Kinda blog the scariest monsters of all the monsters get through it because it has no base the time I don't that there's something to be said for trying to like have a lot of time away from those things but still having them because you kind of need supposedly reduce your energy thing I felt almost like I had today because I you know I live in an old house with systems and I was like anything to no no that my reasoning was I was just like dwp bills really high maybe this will help but then I just saw today about how the nest is just always listening to you always too many functions and you don't want all these apps and things is just a phone that's got like two buttons on the buttons or like call urgency hall taxed from it and I'm not sure but I ended up getting the ring just because someone rang my doorbell a ton of times when I was in the shower and at Lake made me maybe they were doing it to try and get you to buy a ray were never stressed out do that too like you can just like but maybe it would be because I was like I have a computer all the computer jitterbug which is the phone for old people that I would also interested and Jitterbug jitterbug only advertise it in like parade magazine the so good it's like phones too hard to small and hard to read and got concerned because I got there was a dwp rebate where you could get a nest thermostat for free no no no no no no no I did it I want to reduce my energy intake by moving off the grid well let us know when you do that I think it's okay it's okay to have an he's got that came out that the people who do nest in ring whoever that is they'll nest is google or google that they were trying to like make partnerships with police we know now I'm under the Silver Lake about it the next thing I mean I I feel less anti just because like will a Lotta Times I'll get stuff like you know like playing check recently they're still in the middle of doing a mini series on Miyazaki so I get a ton of me as that you had to be at work in half an hour and I was still getting dentists did so I was like okay you go and all phones only texted and you could not speak with someone on the phone I want to do away with us so don't want the Internet on it I don't want the Internet I I want it to be texting phone connection camera phone yeah yeah exactly yeah I think that's what the baby phone might be like Oh give it to me Jitterbug and your baby everyone's so unprepared for their phones not to work we had an event where we tried to do a meet up recently that was thwarted in part by the fact that our phone the ride share and then I realized my phone was dead and it took we've eventually I was like I'll walk home and he was like but it's like two and a half miles and I was like I can do it baby whatever it's called sponsor night call please sponsor night call I think I just want the jitterbug because I I like as you guys now I like to talk on the phone stuff need a Jitterbug yeah falling in not being able to get up has a does not discriminate to have a phone I mean honestly that yeah I told them yet was I went with my husband to the dentist because we hadn't been to the dentist in a really long time we wanted to do more moral support so we went and then he got a call it's like hey do you still like to talk on the phone but the numbers and letters need to be really big for you to see our dialing one of the buttons that was also humbling to me because I was like we are no better than Caroline Calloway we sometimes things go wrong on the day of an event and there's nothing you can do kind of recording what you're saying that has an audio function lights up when there was a thing that came out all the the one thing that I kind of try to pride myself on especially now that I'm driving again in Los Angeles is like I can get around without maps like limited DMV just swing by easily take a number yeah your map David might enjoy a star map may restorick restaurant a map like Thomson guy that has like every single St Ali I really like or those novelty maps they have on the walls places life alert probably I mean you never know it's like I'm never gonNA say no never to having a life on you can't get up South Park map today also was maybe we should go back to maps holography tied love maps I'm so bad at reading them you know my position on maps and yeah I mean you like order one online but you can't just go to like seven eleven or like any random like newsstand or whatever union county store contrary our that is really good is it just of Laurel Canyon and Canyon which is also like really interesting to look at I'm not saying there are no times when it's good to have a phone can I tell a quick story the other day I went to the dentist I've already told molly only like so much about my trip to the dentist but one thing I don't the Google navigation services are like take a left at the starbucks like starbucks and other paid for them to be all right Thomas Guide but what you know I'd probably be better for me speaking of maps really quickly we were talking at some point about pokemon go I'm to be part of society and you really don't Wanna be cadence topless was posting about a phone that's supposed to be for kids but she was like it's really for Perrin it's like a throwback phone it's like a he feels in retrospect obvious I'm bringing it up even though we didn't have it on the agenda because all I could think about since this came on my radar it didn't work on top of the mountain and Griffith Park which makes retiree it's the mountains right to take away her not having service I don't think you can text from it I think it's just like a brick phone this is the problem with owns is that I feel like it's not that uncommon my perspective on it is that I wish you know what's crazy is that David recently tried to get a map like a paper map just to like have out so that he could get a lay of the land of Los Angeles you cannot buy one I feel like star maps or like I have a real bugaboo out star maps didn't exist but there should be a restaurants map just like cool like his just different from like an observatory sorry maps terrible really outdated now most of them are like Johnny Carson's house right like a Longo is developed by a company that also developed another sort of map geocaching kind of software that is the after the US and Pokemon go turns out this whole startup was funded in part by in q Tel which the CIA venture capital uh-huh maybe I don't want to give up maps to have Thomas Guide but like I'll give up prime to not fund ice okay so we totally knew this already like Ashley Feinberg actually wrote about this and Gawker like in twenty twenty sixteen I think that this had come out at some point on stuff like that yeah I know I hate it and we all hate it did also like it feels like a thing that everyone has to talk about your and more his you know I love Them I like my dad always just be like just look at a map and it'd be like it means nothing to me a landmarks I won't landmarks are you good with directions like with then I was kind of like but without my phone see things like that you might want that's what else is like what if the power did go out for some reason what if there's an amp what if what if the big one Ooh Dash tell because the Q. is like cue from James Bond and it's the branch of the CIA that deals in like new technologies and new gadget rides and lots of Disneyland so stay tuned for that North South East West directions that are like make a left at the church you know if you're like go north then go west I'm like well now all the hey everyone when was the last time you thought about how you brush your teeth which is why we all are so depressed well we have a very special guests we want to bring on Karina Longworth past and future the way to do it yeah they have all my data via you guys I'm just it's called in q-tel yeah it's called in Dash q bins or whatever and we're all like don't have phones in your phone won't work because in a huge emergency like that then the cell everything's overloaded so you're gonNA worrying what most people don't think about it and most people do not brush for the recommended two minutes every day every morning and every night And for thirty seconds on each side of mouth as dentists recommend but with quip it takes the guesswork out of brushing your teeth quick was created by dentists and product designers to I bet you could get one drugstore AAA for sure yeah maybe yeah and I bet you could get one maybe on Hollywood boulevard but probably a starman might be game really I'm just saying you can play let's go peek at you from your house and not move and no one will track you and no one will know I think just what object it was called Ingress which is a really scary name for a game I don't know if anybody played it but then as soon as you slip Acute Beka chew on it and it's like Oh y'all got to do it we're talking about the the difficulty of becoming a person who's not being tracked is seems like impossible to heal yourself from right now right house song of the South we're GonNa talk to her about weird buried Disney features and Theme Park Ride you too it's like am I get if I gave the convenience of having maps on my phone I would have to learn how to read a map really like I know that I'm not GonNa go back to wow yes that was terrifying you you've played pokemon go right emily you know I play a watched emily simple to use an comes with a travel cap that doubles as a mirror mount these thoughtful features make brushing something you actually WanNa do twice everyday good habits matter to live a healthier life so help formed fresh oral health habits with Quip Quip starts at just twenty five dollars and you'll get your first refill free at get quip dot com slash thing debut in the new season I believe it starts tomorrow as of when this comes out of her podcast you must remember this and we're all very excited gets in on breaking your brain right now I'm just like I hate I hate when Nash it isn't like Silicon Valley slash they've always done elect yeah yeah yes this is like prime night call to the point where I was like did we already talked about this did we know this already hugh you ip dot com slash things wchs this is a simple way to support our show and start brushing better but you have to go to get Q. U. IP dot com slash things to get your first refill free go right now to get or maybe it was just like something that was being discussed on on reddit boards Yeah I think it was known that it was the same software as this other thing that clearly was a call government says and sharing and even clean quick automatically delivers brush heads to you every three months for clean new bristles right on schedule the sleek intuitive design is head to hear that it is about a very contested property in the Disney plus catalog song of the South it's out of your control right and whatever these jars are just piling up I know what to do whenever like the power goes out you're just like oh all right welcome back to night call we are joined today by our very special guest in one of our favorite podcasters currying along worth of the like there's so many guests that we've had that I've just been like virtually communion with guests that not all of us have had in a variety of podcast configurations DOC maxed out she makes money moves production of glamour an iheartradio listen and subscribe at Apple podcast iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcasts past and present guests past future and present guests one of our favorite podcasters to talk about her new season of you must remember this which is all about way that they have this but I also I think people are just confused about rights issues right now like nobody really knows exactly what Disney owns because they acquired Allah Fox but from what actually matters for your oral health healthier habits quips sensitive vibrations with a built in timer Guy Gentle brushing for the dentist recommended two minutes with thirty second some things like that were released by Fox don't count as Fox movies and some things that Disney released don't count as Disney movies anymore I thought they were giving up the rights to the Miyazaki movies I know people who still play to and you know it's not poking Mons fault that they're the game who became the face of this could have been any sometimes where things are drawn in a cartoon I have one of those if my neighborhood where I'm at my house cartoon is like your one at the Laurel Kid Dr Livestream isn't that right now I was on one that it was only me and testing the studio that's right that's right forgot see I have a weird memory now that I'm in the studio that's kind of the whole thing is that Bob Idir has said that this is the one film that they will not put on Disney plus does that mean everything else will eventually come to Disney ask because I saw people saying there were some other random catalog titles committed yeah I mean they they haven't ruled anything out entirely a whole think God will never have to look at like John lasseter's Oh yeah horrible face doing those intros ever again that's the worst cast you must remember this welcome Corinna tonight call hi thanks for having me I'm sorry to hear that well actually you only were on in during they already had I think somebody else's even to HBO which I'm Leah to me one of the crown jewels of like if you're going to tired of the Disney I mean maybe that's why they gave it up I don't know yeah so why did you decide to do song in the south so I was just as like a yeah the big draw then it was Arguing with somebody about the Disney jobs which I think are bad mostly bad yeah there there are some good ones we could this is true can be like when Chris came in I was like we've done this before and he goes really Krino welcome we're so happy to have Corinna all and so I was doing some research just about the history of African Americans in Hollywood and trying to figure out different storylines and I came to a thing where I I had been asked by some people to see if I could help them try to figure out a TV show idea set in basically like classical Hollywood but black people which I felt like I had to explain because it is not commercially available and hasn't been for how did you see it so they did release it on LASERDISC in Japan I think in the ninety Guy James Basket plays uncle remus who's a kindly older African American gentleman on a plantation right after the civil war who befriends a little white boy and he is and so there is a digital version of that that is sort of floating around and I actually like I didn't torrent it yesterday or anything like for some reason it was on a hard drive do you remember my mother's saying something to me like this is a movie about how the racist can live together about friendship between a black man and a white boy which is what people thought in the Eighties Walt Disney thought for sure yeah so I just I hadn't really remembered it very well and I certainly didn't remember that two thirds of the movie is live action ability of people to watch it added to its mythos so much to song of the south like is it kind of what you thought it was going to be so I had had memories of it from seeing it L. White Communist named Maurice Rap who was blacklisted immediately after and so I was like Oh if you know this is kind of how my thought process usually works with putting together the seasons which is like if there's one thing that I find out about something that I had never heard of before I just basically try to figure out are there other things and was song of the south like pretty quickly Hollywood in nineteen forty six so I you know that was just sort of one of the films that I came across in this research but I came across a fact that I had never known about it which was that it was written they do which was definitely on a Disney sing along and I remember like I thought there was a clip of lake the laughing place that was featured in something because I definitely that was in my house and has been for a long time so it was like on a hard drive of movies that I think we're probably like torrent or ripped from other sources like a long time ago yeah those things were sampled we were talking about this film a lot recently as being some shockingly that was once really hard to find and sort of the the so I don't actually know where to tell people to go if they want to see it even illegally but I'm sure you could figure it out you said that it was released four times theatrically right and the last one was in eighty John well there it's obviously an splash matchel maybe like a there were clips I think because I watched a lot of like Disney afternoon Li like all of the sort of parole started lining up to form a necklace and now we have six episodes wow this six degrees of song of the south they were still putting songs from a from it on sing along same I was GonNa say maybe I had seen it but then I was like I really don't know that I have just no some kind of separation and his dad is in Atlanta and they're like on this rural plantation and he sort of left to his own devices so he becomes friends with this former slave but then his mom is like you've got the toad focus on a different aspect of the song of the South Saga basically like the first episode is just why does this movie exists in what is it like to watch he's magical yeah yeah I mean he really is kind of the prototypical magical Negro in one thousand nine forty six and this was a really big part for a black actor in the movie theater in one thousand nine hundred six when I was six years old or actually I might have been five years old I don't remember exactly what part of the year it was about and I remember being like this is racist not at all and actually sick yeah so I saw one where when you saw yeah I I I felt like I had seen it growing up but I think it was just because this live action family drama set on this plantation where like this little boy's just basically his parents are completely neglecting him his parents are happy stop teaching my son these slave stories she's like you're a bad influence so it's like the secret garden kind of egg has kind of that kind of ever the newest technology is we must adopt sure yeah it'll be better than the previous thing which is not always true yeah I mean in fairness to wall like I mean he was ultimately wronged Dan we all of who framed Roger exactly yeah the best but this was the first movie did it because they did have purely animated films that were big hits Snow White had been this real like industry changing hit in one thousand nine hundred thirty seven he was like we were doing cartoons with diminishing returns and then we kind of like perked back up when we brought in live action with the cartoons yeah when I watched the Disney thank to it and then you know like the the climax of the movie is that like the little boys on his deathbed so there's just a lot of melodrama no but he tells them all the Brera rabbit the American masters on PBS which I recommend anyone who wants to see like a critical historically accurate biography of Disney which are very rare hard to find awesome like less than stellar box office performances and he had this idea that like animation was only going to connect with the masses if it did have this blend twist like actually kind of a compilation of shorts but some of the travelogue yeah Manhattan but some of the shorts involved basically like Donald Duck and these two like South American nobody'll connect with something if it isn't in three dimensions and like always second guessing like the original thing that they did and we're good at I think it's also like what it in with live action thing which feels like kind of a first version of now like Disney basically abandoning Two d animation for three because it's like a feature film scale and so Disney really thought that it was going to be heralded as just like this major technological advancement you know he really thought like the whole industry was just GonNa get down on the I tuck Bro I know he liked the way that he wanted everyone to live on the campus Disney and like you should just be happy to work here that you don't need for that but I thought it was so interesting that like the technological aspect of it it was like wall sort of responding because they they had gone through some flops release people loved it more and more and when you watch the PBS DOC it's like no the he almost tanked company like a hundred times it is again very techy where it's like time there in the place where they can open Disneyland like all the movies that are featured in it like half of them were flops V. Like immortalized in these magical rites of love hits or classics or whatever you WanNa call it because of this strategy of theatrical re release and so they keep being exposed to new generations and then they just kind of become canonized over time and little bit I mean like not in this movie because obviously also don't remember seeing but I think sometimes I like pizza was like a living wage or benefits because you work for a genius and you're you're exposed to magic and I thought one of the interesting things when you were at because we got to listen half a million dollars it was super super cheaply minutes to like barely ofo feature but then they made a decent profit off of this movie called three Caballeros early turning towards leftism or communism that they were being influenced by people from abroad implanting ideas in their heads that seems like stories yeah and those are the things that are animated and it does kind of like Mary poppins asking melting of the live action hero pining but anything I don't remember the exact year but it was in the nineteen thirty s and then they kept putting up movies at weren't making as much money like Pinocchio was a huge flop Dumbo did okay but they also made Dumbo for being stereotype of black people and like the romanticized antebellum south and wall was like nope you're wrong I'm just GONNA put it out anyway because I know what's best Mike Equality and tolerance between the races but he was racist enough to believe that black people couldn't actually activists or intellectuals and less communist no we have to gamble it all on the next project each time and they almost went under a lot yeah that's funny about Disneyland is like by the Communist but obsessed with the idea that communists were out to get him personally and so and also I mean he wanted to believe that he had made like a liberal movie about Cigna and then the movie came out and that's when the activist group started actually picketing Mike trying to boycott it and as I get into a little bit like they the problem was that words hanging out with like with real people like it was really the first instance of blending this live action animated and so you know I mean to be fair like he just looked at the data yeah but when you the south came out the N. w. c. p. protested it and told Walt not to put it out because they were like this movie's racist it's about like a condescending Cabrera Rabbit and Prayer Fox Embraer bear thing which are real plantation folktales that were collected in those books wasn't a united front there were some people who are like you know what like this movie isn't that bad because at least like it gave a couple of African American actors jobs we're brainwashing though I keep bringing art Babbitt the Jewish Hoti who invented goofy that's who led the animator strike and who thought was you know turning everyone against him but one thing I didn't really realize that I have learned recently I thought was interesting was that even at that time that people did think that like it wasn't people naturally the first episode in advance so when what's what's the date that it drops by the way some October twenty second the twenty second of the day after this is yeah so yeah Lamar new ride but we're going to like cut corners a little bit and use all these animatronic from a stage show that killed somebody when the revolving platform crush someone each and especially in this case like I mean there's two there were two phases of protest against one of the south there was the protest as soon as people found out he was making it third-most put out by Disney yeah when you're the Disney Company wants always like Disney like started it had snow white it was the biggest hit and then it just became more successful with each argument for like yeah okay fine we won't like put all of our energy towards protesting and like trying to get this one thing you know taking down or you know not shoulder cataclysmic events in Disney history when the animators went on strike but right before World War Two and he just felt so betrayed and from that point on not only was obsessed in which where African American intellectuals like Hey Walt like could we help you with this could we you know read the script give you know it's like something can we be part of the process and he was whatever because it's not like it's not that big of a deal it's not like Avatar or whatever it's not taking over the entire world but then like in the case of a Disney movie it will come out better good but so it's just a plantation themed plantation I put it together for a very long time which by the way like I had not heard this we talked on the phone earlier this week about it when he was trapped beneath a revolving floor yeah yeah again will come out again and again like zombies let's take it if we shall to splash mountain which is the way that most people today probably if at all are familiar with song of the south well okay do you guys think that people who ride splash mountain and know that it refers to a movie because I don't know no I don't think they do because it doesn't say song of the South anywhere on it it's like the Brera rabbit and again it is like doesn't have uncle remus in it it's more he's which are apparently all very southern and weird or like weird manifest destiny nightmare stuff also yeah I'm sure a lot of it is everybody ret con mis no hit everybody loved yeah if you look at like the original box office returns yeah just take whatever whatever you can get which feels like a like that that kind of conflict still goes on with yes and it's like such an interesting for everyone conspiracy theorizing that like they had been put up to it by somebody like probably the commies so he basically like one of the major until recently the other thing that I do talk about an episode though so I don't want to talk about too much right now that that whole part of Disneyland is just like this very weird resurrection of the Splash Mountain so many times and it was it never occurred to me like what movies it looks like Disney staff I mean one thing I'll say about that and the last episode of the it was like a revolving stage they have those stages at that are like it's in the hall of innovations or whatever that that because like the romanticized imaginary antebellum south he grew up in Saint Louis working in a factory well that's what Main Street USA strange that you go as a child or even as an adult to splash mountain and you never think to question what movie is this from until you know but it's like I went and also it's like they re purpose a lot of old animatronic from another show called America's sayings yes so it was also sort of during maybe a time when they didn't when they were like we have to build it there's so racist or like most of adventure land is like a big problem for sure but it seems like there's a point where you're like we take out the human beings oh that's not in splash mountain but on the jungle cruise title cruises so racist I can't believe they haven't taken out now. The native animatronic season is all about splash mountain and just inland big ride to open I feel like in my childhood yeah yeah like that was the new ride yeah yeah he is imaginary version of what the Main Street of Saint Louis Missouri was like when he was a kid it's all like his memories and his fantasy just imagined and not based in reality at all but just like it's like this collective memory of what the south there's like some wildly racist stuff in Disneyland and there were a lot of rights especially in that part of Disneyland that didn't refer to movies like there was no pirates of the Caribbean movie until true generally and know-how haunted mansion movie. CBS One but they were like those aren't real I'm really excited for the night call you must remember this being parked we were talking about the need is King Walt Saint Wall to like you have reinvented so one of the things I've really come to realize about wall is that he was really like the it's absolutely insane that there's a wind in the willows right but the thing is all of these movies do end up becoming like before we started recording like because they have done these rebranding of several rides like recently they changed the tower of terror everybody yeah but so it you like it opened in nineteen eighty nine and I had been to Disneyland a few times before that because I was nine years old by then and there have there probably GonNa do it soon there's a movie coming out like in a replace them all with an animatronic the rock and emily blunt and emily with people loved because it was like a viking pirates of the Caribbean that sounds great but now it's just frozen themed and it also looks still sounds like a snow cave around kind of building in Tomorrowland yeah it was in there those antibiotics were already haunted hers from Western Johnny Westworld Take financial loss here right he basically says like like even though I think we could make a profit if we released it it might be offensive to some people now eighteen hundred south like in a way it makes perfect sense with a song of the south ride right there well that's like that's totally Walt Disney's aesthetic fluids Bob comments that you mentioned in the first episode of Your podcast of the season I was really like he has an interesting kind of frankness Oh goddamn long to do a little mermaid ride yeah and they're still not really a beauty and the beast tried like they haven't invested in sort of the movies that people really do like making rides except star their own mythology like big thunder mountain matterhorn all the mountains are their own sort of theme park mythology but it is also weird that they took so four success Rosen I heard like a frozen ride in Disneyworld that replaced Norway cruise in we've fucked up we're gonNA try and do something to be interesting that would make more sense to me than just wiping things and pretend pretending they don't exist which is what they do I don't think they will do but what if they were like now just make Breyer Rabbit Embraer Fox movie that doesn't have this framing device and we'll let you know black director and a black writer like what if they really the last thirty years tracking down there and Banjo did you know oh like magic carpet lion king ride the new class during that time like when Little Mermaid was new they opened up splash mountain yeah do but that's about to change because now it's my story armed Dr Q. and I've spent the stuff that they don't want acknowledge as part of the history and so it rather than just like have any kind of honest history of it it's sort of like nope it didn't know never had there's all this sort of like conning kind of skirting around things that don't make sense or that like over time people have realized like our neo problematic or iheartradio APP or wherever you get podcasts podcast narrated by Dennis Quaid featuring new music produced by t-bone Burnett written by Jerry and Grammy Winning Songwriter the moon was about to say before we started recording when I was in college I had like a there was like a visiting professor exactly because I remember being like I want a little mermaid ride I was like this is good enough because there's water right twenty thousand leagues under the they have the Big Lake Foam Mermaid that just sort of like or who came and showed us his documentary he had made where he was basically trying to prove that we didn't and that it was shot in a sense stage and you know obviously he couldn't prove that or when you bring beauty and the beast like what would that ride even be just the talking teapot going to a dinner party yeah just a dinner party it's a restaurant there's no allowed in Rye spy that Reid was so great before they so it's really bad my kids were really upset about that ride they'd never been on sensitively or like humanoid light it's a really weird quote because basically what he's saying is like he's like well you know I'm such a good person that I'm willing he talks about like this wouldn't be appealing to shareholders or this would this would be like detrimental to the shareholders were you would expect someone from Disney to handle things a little more likes so we wanted to ask you just one night call question before we let you go do you think we landed on this is a story about the two most important musicians of the twentieth century but no one ever Messa here about that lake people die in their cars that work at Disneyland like effect other shareholders think about Kobe I wonder how much you Kinda came across this sort of stuff in your research where we're a lot of times I think the thing that feels creepy about Disney especially now like in this period of Disney is that it does feel like a religion in that like what the American government was doing that's a great question Serena do answer that here finally doesn't seem like if we had the capability to go to the Moon You slow down to starts to look real weird right the question somebody brought up to me is why haven't we gone Bourboulon but the new song featuring original lyrics by Bob Dylan Stephens out the world to musicians who changed it all listen to bear in a Banjo on the a friend at the time and my my boyfriend had already been kicked out of college but like believed he knew better than anything he could learn in college was like your fucking idiot Corinna the real the car in space that real who knows who knows anything that he does for Real was being poured and as I've said a million times about operation paper clip like the US hired a bunch of Nazi scientists and kept them from ward into a guardians thumbs down but like there's a possibility that they might decide to rebrand splash mountain like to maybe not obviously but he couldn't prove it but he made like some compelling evidence that the footage had been destroyed or whatever and I remember going home to my apartment that I showed with my just brushing it ended up that we have your podcast engaged yet check out the PBS American Masters Design themselves further from this thing that they wanted to deny exist and it's like would we protest what if they just embraced it fully simple like hiking can't believe for making a jungle cruise movie it's like of all things you could just do it with wild ride movie right but there was something that we're going to talk about on the show that was about how a Nobel Prize winner said that we would never live on an exo planet ever gullible so I dropped it but I don't know maybe there aren't alert what was the evidence that the footage had been destroyed. You remember you didn't happen but we're agnostic bring us we're Oeste let's see we did but yeah then the Challenger and the huge expense I think that like the expense of the don't fund the space program anymore other than like that trump was talking about that I forgot about but Elon Musk does if Elon musk was like we're going to the moon and then like he went to the time there's also a good reason for saying that which is that the idea being don't give up on our planet and uninhabitable person also saying that yeah and that all the tech barons who think we're going to move to Mars or move to the moon or just like totally in a dream world it's never going to happen which I think is true in landing well first of all guys did it happen we're not like one hundred percent convinced at night call correct almost they were the nineties we don't think yeah it was it had like a real room to thirty seven five uh-huh uh-huh kind of cobbled together like MONTAGES at this point in human history all stars are effectively at a distance of infinity we struggle very hard as a species to reach the Earth's moon do you think we're wherever the challenger which sort of I think like yeah dampened a lot of public enthusiasm for for NASA that's the problem is that it's so I think that that the then who sounds like they know what they're talking about is like absolutely not we stand firmly on the earth and it's unlikely to change for a very very long it would just be going all the Goddamn Tom Really fancy why number one wouldn't we have gone in the eighties a lot check it out we're on the Moon Regan there was the point of where it is an ad Astra fast food on the moon and just like freest like like preserve food for like hundred soon or he showed footage of being on the moon would you believe him no absolutely not oh I wouldn't believe him specifically don't believe he lawn Moscow but times trials to try and solve the space problem so that's even more fucked up than if we didn't go it is can I ask you guys a question yeah so obviously like we absolutely should not just give up on earth because that is like not the cool thing to do right Steven Kane a professor planetary astrophysics at the Riverside said the sad reality is it's of yours so that you can make make the journey I think it's more likely that it will be a wally scenario where we're on giant spaceships that are like back if we can go why did common why didn't we only grow during especially the Nixon years time known for their truthfulness about urban and just kind of waiting to return to thanks being able to like build a civilization on a planet than it is to like build some kind of space station but they quote him as saying we'll never go to the moon it just won't happen unless like everything changes about our understanding of mass and acceleration it's never going to happen and then they keep quoting people who were like well not never they just can't

Elon Musk apple Disneyland King Walt Saint Wall Samantha Bari Yulia CBS splash mountain Editor Chief of Glamour Steven Kane finch NASA president Moon Regan trump Astra
Thandie Newton in Vulture, FYC Season, and Hollywoods Newest Couple | Jam Session

Ringer Dish

35:39 min | 6 months ago

Thandie Newton in Vulture, FYC Season, and Hollywoods Newest Couple | Jam Session

"From the Ringer I'm Tyler Times. When I spoke to Nfl Star Cam Newton in January. Is. Moss, it was clear. Ohio. Charlotte. Cam Won't be getting that which. He was released by the Carolina Panthers March. Cam is a complex figure. Am I interested in goes far beyond Zuber, smile and transcendent style of play. Can broke the glass ceiling in American athletics, a Central Place in the sport there few black quarterbacks of ever reached. Mega his fall. That much more dramatic. Over the past year I've traveled the country speaking of coaches and teammates, friends and family reporters in even briefly man himself. Trying to rally `Nigma that is Cam Newton. Uncover contradictions at every turn. How can the hardest work on the team depicted as bad leader? and. How can a franchise icon with the NFL MVP and Super Bowl appearance on his resume. So abruptly cast side. BRING NFL show presents camp chronicles. Series premieres Monday July thirteen. Welcome to jam session I'm Julian Littman I'm Amanda Dobbins. We got some real live. Exciting celebrity news discussed this week. I'm pretty excited about it. We do at least like two instances adds great Lily James and Chris Evans. We're GONNA. Talk about you but I a couple of greats, pieces and vulture this week from the Alex Jong the I, was a profile of McCullough Cole who we discussed last week. Definitely, check it out. We'll make you like or even more and then today a Q. and A. With Tandy Newton probably most famous for Westworld at this point, but she's been in so many things very long career, which is one of the reasons why her Qa was so fantastic yet it's A. Their lot of anecdotes for sure and observations. She's very candid. She names names which many celebrities don't do, but that makes it sound gossipy and I you know there are gossip elements to it, but she is really evaluating her experience as a black woman, in Hollywood, and as as an actor in Hollywood for the last twenty something years with a lot of candor, and you don't normally get that from actors on now record at all, so we'll come back to this. Because the anecdote that was really making the rounds in jumped out the most was a story about Tom Cruise, and who doesn't love a Tom Cruise, story and I I really WanNa dig into that story. Both, really want to talk about this 'cause she tells him really powerful stories about how she has dealt with sexual abuse and racism, and it's it's pretty. The stories are really candidate, and I think also the way that this Cuna is constructed. Her voice really comes through which is awesome, and that it makes the the peace like feeling a unique read. I mean should we start with talking about flirting or with the source tells about a Gal. Yeah, you know what I would recommend. I don't know if we need to go line by line of all through all of them. Just because as you said I think hearing them from her is what is so. Important and like and special about this QNA and you're right. That's often their profiles. Are you don't really hear from. actors. In this way that often, and they aren't as the really open as they are in, so the value is like in her reflecting on her experience. You mentioned flirting. which is you know something that she's talked about publicly for some time we worked, she was I'm groomed and sexually abused as a teenager by the director. John Dugan I. think that's how you pronounce it. on the set of flirting. You know she reflects on that. experience again and she reflects on her career. You mentioned and Amy Pascal. Anecdote. which was I believe during the. Negotiations for the eventual film Charlie's angels the two thousand version. Much Tandy and ultimately declined to be a part of in part. She says the interview because of her experience with both the director and the producer amy. Pascal trying to push her character towards black serotypes and things she wasn't comfortable with, and you know. She reflexive about movies that she's been a part of I'm including crash Giuseppe. Pretty notorious Oscar winner at this point, and her feelings about being and crash, and ultimately you know as you mentioned you mentioned Tom Cruise her feelings about being in mission impossible to and the you know they come from experience. She's the one living the life and having been on all of those sets and having been in those experiences. Experiences and is willing to talk about it, and so you could summarize it, but there's no point in that we'd be missing the magic I'd. We should talk about the Tom Cruise bit for a minute. I mean I am a sucker Tom Cruise stories. He is incredibly famous in yet so unknown to me and again I. I think hearing her describe her Tom. Cruise experience is what is so exhilarating is because she speaks about it with so much just candor, and very and very frank, but it's clear that he's also a bit of a mystery to her, and it's like any really evokes a lot of the trying to make sense of this person that many people. You know movie watchers and and. Consumers the pop culture have been trying to make sense up for many years, and she had a front row seat, and it doesn't seem like it was the most positive experience I guess. We should just read a bit of it sure. there's. A twofold story you know, let's let's start with what it's like to work with him as an actor so they they were shooting. Mission impossible to I, believe and. A scene was not really going well, and so this is what she writes and he gets so frustrated with having to try and explain that he goes quote. Let me just let's just go do it. Let's rehearse on camera, so we rehearsed and they recorded it in many out you you be me, so we filmed the entire scene with me being him because believe me I. I knew the lines by then and him playing me, and it was just the most unhelpful I can't think of anything else. Anything less revealing. It just pushed me further into a place of terror and insecurity as a real shame, and bless him and I really do mean blessed, because he trying his damnedest, and then she continues on I remember at the beginning of the night. Night, seeing slight red mark on his nose by the end of the night. A kid you not, this is house. Metabolism is so fierce. He had a big whitehead where there. That red DOT was. It would take anyone else. Forty eight hours manifest that it was I saw it growing, and it was like the zoo was me just getting bigger and bigger I. Remember Calling Jonathan. Jonathan Demme described the night to him a nightmare as I was describing, it was clear that I thought it was that I was the big Viking problem and Jonathan was like Tandy. Shame on you for not backing yourself. He was really sweet, and then Tom called, and I thought Oh this. Is it the apology? No, he was just like. We're going to reshoot this next week. And that is just a lot right there. I just gotTA. Say this visit. Thing is tremendous storytelling. That is just great writing and she's not. She's not writing, though know she clearly has a tremendous like communication style, and which is part of what's so captivating in this interview, but it just that puts you in a sense of place. You have a specific mental image like the it is part of a larger sense of what she's trying to communicate about this person. You can really see it, it's. It's obviously also quite memorable, but it's not really about the ZIG. It's kind of like then you understand what it's like to be her. Watching the force of nature that is Tom Cruise just going through it, and it's like kind of alienating. Get also fascinating and you Kinda can't believe it's happening. Great great writing by her. It's also so human. It's like it really. She has humanized Tom Cruise in a way that I think literally no story about him in in like twenty plus years has. Getting as it is just so. Common and everyone millier with with the way that as it materializes changes, and she just turned it into like this thing that happens to Tom Cruise's well, and to your point, it's a great way of narrative ising Tom Cruise, but it also it's speaks to how she sees the world I think which is. Through people as just like regular people, and and like she obviously doesn't buy into all the all the bullshit. She's like this is Tom Cruise got in. She's not actually actually what makes it so powerful. She's like. That it's Tom Cruise and she was like you know, bless his heart, but he can get his it, and this is what happens to him when he stressed out just like everyone else. And I. It's so i. mean this is such a great I don't know if metaphor is the right literary term here, but like it's A. It's a great symbol at an quite literally draws your attention. In this anecdote to which is the purpose I, don't also want to drive by the the the fact that she's talking about like tents were conditions, and and feeling that she's there with I'm someone who's very famous and has more power than her, and she's not doing it right, and and the way that she is like recreating and reflecting on that experience and I. You know I wouldn't say letting Tom Cruise off the hook though I again. Again I. Don't ultimately think that it's my my place to decide that it's how she wants to speak about it and and make the decision for herself, but you know recreating this this scene in that experience with a lot of nuance and reflecting on what she was feeling on it, and and what was going on and I like to me I was in her position, and I really did understand the power dynamics and the difficulties. But. It is it's it's a vodka and we hear a lot of these stories, and there's no one way to tell them at all. But I think that's a great microcosm of what makes this interview like? It's so exciting to read because she just has such A. Precise and connective way of a reflecting on this. Extremely long and varied career that she's had at this point. Totally I think it's really her. It's like really effective how she speaks in Vignettes, essentially like she has a story to go with each question that is posed her, and in each each beat of the conversation. There's a very specific. Example from her career that she points to, and that is really. Think it helps draw. Understand her experience and She's. She's obviously quite something I mean. She's so good on Westworld I. Presume you don't watch US westworld. I don't watch much world. I watched the first season, and it's not my preferred form of entertainment, but many people enjoy so that's great and I I'm a fan of Tanny. Regardless. All the best parts of the show episode season like Ivory Season of all the seasons each time with her episode like best one. Probably the best episode of the whole show is from season to and they go into. A different part of the park and it's just like focused on her. In the most compelling part of the show is her searching for her daughter. I mean there's just no question like she is hands down the best part of that show, and no I don't think anyone will debate it. It's cool. She's on TV. I wish he was like on more television. Shows sounds like westworld sheet mentioned that like she had been working on Westworld for twelve months, and like it's so insane that it takes twelve months to make eight episodes of the show. I'm just sort of like. What are you doing? Yeah No, it's true I was reflecting I. Hope She does more TV if that's what she's interested in doing I was reflecting the this interview which vignettes is a great way of describing it. It's not that like it's a performance because performance like always has connotations of authenticity, but you know she can hold your attention, and she is like really able to again. It's like storytelling which every hack on says. They're a storyteller now but I. Think this is actually the case, but also she does this via zoom these. These interviews are Connecticut Zoo and I was just reflecting on how bad I am at Zoom and how hard you miss, and how her like, and the just just you know or whatever video conference you're doing the the pressure that it puts to hold attention, both like it in terms, narrative Louis, and visually it's A. It's a really tough room. If you will zoom totally and I mean, this is a virtuoso performance, so she can do like very expensive like long twelve months like HBO shows or like do his. Zoom Jape Shit like there are a lot of different mediums in which Tandy Newton can work. Well is what I'm saying. Yeah, I! I definitely agree with you. I also think that point she. She says that what really pivotal moment for her is when she met Evan's ler at a performance, but Jonah monologues, which I think that she also. She just clearly has. She can hold someone's attention to your point I. Would I'd be happy to see her play all the roles of monologues when I saw that anecdote, that was my thought. I was like okay. Let's get her on stage in that play. She gives play all of it. And then you could probably that now 'cause technically if it's if it's a one woman show socially just okay, great, great conscious. It's true and I think we're talking recording how there's a lot of TV actors and actresses and shutters doing interviews right now because we're approaching emmy nomination season's over in fic season, which may which means that a lot of celebrities who would not otherwise be available for interviews are because they're. They're cooperating or working the other cooperating with their network or Just you know trying to do their own publicity and it's working in our favor as consumers. Yeah, I think we're actually probably getting a bit more of that content, because typically like quote, fic content, which stands for for your consideration. If you don't have to drive by all those billboards all the time, a lot of traditionally those events in the ways of getting to in this case Emmy. Voters is You know via panels and Kinda in-person events and this year because of covid nineteen, all of the quote fica events are like online and virtual only and so it does seem that there has been like. More access to olive these actors and creators, because everyone is just kind of like. Yes, I will do zoom with you or yes. I will do this interview. So there has been a lot of it and like in moments like this. You're like great. Fantastic give me an interview like this every day, but you raised a question before we started recording of. Like, FICA is ultimately in the service of in this case, the emmys which are in awards show that are supposed to happen in the fall, and typically those are large events where room is filled with a number of famous people, and for the purposes of jam session. At least the main appeal, hordes show awards shows is that they are the. One or two or three events a year where all the famous people are in one room, and you get to watch him interacting and you get to watch what happens when you know Brad Pitt sits next to I can't remember who sitting next to this year at the Oscars. He was in the front row. Yes. I think he was next to Camilla. Who is dating Leonard, Dicaprio? Agricola right, okay. That's what a night for her. I believe. That's next. I think you're probably right and. You kind of the Golden Globes as the most famous example of this, because everyone's at tables, and they have like the reaction Cam, but I guess like you know. The VM is for our also trafficking and the reality. Reaction, Cam Osceola he'll. The appeal is like I guess awards, but I have always felt that the real appeal is kind of putting all the famous together, and it sure seemed like that can happen this year. No, it certainly can't, and I'm just curious like. Are you invested in them? THEMIS? Because they announced, they announced Jimmy Kimmel hosting on. There are still happening in September I. Know You're discussing this about the Oscars which got pushed back on the big picture. That means they're like not as much of a GLITZ and glamour event. Though I think obviously in the industry, there are really big deal, but like what what is the future of award shows about people being able to. Convene because like there's plenty of awards that are prestigious that like don't have these. Like MacArthur genius grants genius grants and Pulitzer. Prizes those don't have like big award ceremony to go with them, but they have a give out awards and they're persist. In some ways like. Does this make an emmy more or less valuable? It's a great question. I Interested in the Emmy's in the sense that it's I need something to fill my time like many of us and for some, and for some reason twenty to twenty five years ago when my brain was forming I decided that awards shows would be one of the things that I'm interested in and now I'm just like living in the reality of same Amanda Decision. You know here we are. We can only be honest about it. and I'm also interested in the EMMYS as a test case for the Oscars as you mentioned because I do. Still Care about the Oscars in very for reasons that can't really be explained. But. I. I in terms of whether the EMMYS become more or less important. It's a great question I think. you know they haven't announced that Lee says a recording what the plan would be for. The Emmy's in terms of like one has to assume there will be a virtual component to. It doesn't seem like in September. We'll be at a place where a large auditorium can be filled with people though again I think what we have learned is that we do not know and I'm not an epidemiologist and I am not in charge of Emmys so at norm I in charge of where celebrities go much to my Chagrin, so I don't actually know, but it seems like it will be some sort of virtual event. Will more people watch it because they don't have anything to do? will what will that virtual event look like well? People like it. You know you and I have talked a little bit about. You know zoom livestream fatigue I know. I spent the first half of this being paid. He didn't do a zoom, but well the the just the sense of. The makeshift events like we get it. Okay. but I don't know if the emmys necessarily have to be quote makeshift just because they might not be the you know the usual way that they've been done in, and maybe they can be really innovative about. How do an awards show? Maybe it could be like fun. Sure yeah, yeah I. Mean who knows I can't I don't know like. What I want out of Zuma, word show, the funny thing is it's often very discrete events except for celebrities interacting with each other. You know like it's like now. This award this award. There is a way where you see Really easily segment is it and then obviously Jimmy came alive has been doing a lot of like from at home segments as well, but I think we just so fundamentally will will. Be Starved for celebrity on celebrity interacted in like when will that come back to in front of cameras, both as part of scripted and like unscripted programming, and also like the economy is celebrity. It's Kinda crazy like as obviously a far greater concern, all the people who work in production who don't have jobs right now as a result of production shutdowns, but then there's also the whole layer of of events and PR in appearances that's just evaporated from the fabric of La, and it's pretty strange. Yet I mean it. I completely agree, and it's and it's also hard to plan for, because it's not really clear when and in what capacity they things will come back you know, and then it's like half you. What's your like? Zoom emmys red carpet. Look I'm not really sure if there is one though I guess, some people try I guess that'll be interesting and I think! You gotTa make due. That's the whole that that is our attitude. In these in these past months, totally try to keep people a safe as healthy as you can, but I I was thinking. The other thing about an awards show in addition to everyone being there together, and and having weird awkward moments that we screen shot and dissect is like that moment of the person on stage winning, and there's like the cliche of someone like practicing their Oscar speech with a shampoo bottle when they're really young. You know but like. That that moment of standing in front of a bunch of people and like at being your moment. I don't know if you have that zoom, and then I and I think probably there's people people who are like very happy when they are told that they went an emmy via zoom. If that is what happens also like we're assuming that zoom would be the mechanism, but who can really know, we don't know anything. Let me just this wild speculation. Let me just reemphasize that, but it'll it would be different. It will be different. It really will be. Yeah I'm. I'm curious to see how like a award related stuff play out like. How was sports was sports attempting to this comeback of like doing a sealed bubble? There's not aside from production of actual television shows where I think like. For example, the Bachelor is GonNa try this There's not the seem like. Environment you could really create Ford like supporting celebrity apparatus, it's pretty. It's pretty interesting. Yeah and I think again in terms of apparatus that we need to create to support systems like celebrities is at the bottom of. s shorts just happens to be the concern of this podcast, and it is a concern of this podcast, and so we've been like I I think we have all been struggling a little bit with that of the. Obviously really serious concerns in the world like the health of many human beings, and also in employment, because a lot of people are losing jobs and unable to Afford A. Basic needs like food and it's very serious, and and and that is the primary concern, but then when you look for. A distraction or some sort of break from the intense situation of the world, and then you're like confronted with the same issue than it just becomes really like man. There's there's nowhere there's nowhere to go, so yeah, I agree I don't i. don't think well. This is actually a decent segue into our next our next dumb topic which you alluded to which is again, let me just emphasize. This is not important news. This is not about the concerns of the day. This is silly. This is frivolous, but it's nevertheless. It's Chris. Evans and Lily I've forgotten her last name Lewis James Come on. Some reason I was calling her lily. Evans Anyway all right? Yeah I. Know Who Lily James. Is The star of Mama Mia to? I have large overalls and other films. Yeah who used to date Matt James Right. his name was. Matt Smith Mattress Woohoo okay. Matt James is the future Bachelor, and our current colleague. Different Matt James Oh. That's right. We do have imagined that we work with. I'm sorry for my little Vaudeville. Routine there, okay? Anyway. This photos Chris Evans. Chris Evans Lily James Cats in America and cousin. Rose Aka the young Donna for Mama Mia to were seen. Exiting Club on in London one recent evening at Man is this surreal link for so many reasons. They were exiting club in the name met back in his hotel. Is that correct? That's and there there are invasive Paparazzi photos of this, so we are already breaking resolution to not look Paparazzi photos which I here we are our so us. Here's here's why I'm exhilarated by this. Yeah, first of all London pods famously reopened on Saturday and like they were just like swarmed and I hope that everyone remains healthy, and no one gets sick, but it just sort of was like. Spot on in terms of like the narrative I was just like Oh. My God even even the private members clubs are back raging and I shouldn't be like even of course, especially, the private members club because that's what they were at a private club. They were yes, yeah in London, which they have like several And I think this might have been. This place called the each club, but I'm not positive or not. The each club's called ten Hertfordshire. I think that's an invent whatever anyway I'm just like. I can't believe it. This is like so on point, unfortunately but also Chris Evans just really excited to see him. What a dreamy dreamy man! Just like! He's just still being Chris Evans during Cova. And we just haven't gotten celebrity relationship news like this in a while, and I feel like I'm coming out of gossip desert and it's thrilling I felt the same way My first reaction is data loud. Not in the sense of them, dating congratulations, Chris Evans and Lily James to I. Hope Our you know in a happy arrangement during whatever it is, that is best for them, and it's not my business, okay? I was like wow, they're outside. They're like outside. At night. They went to one place, and then they went to another place and the like I. Because I you know I have been doing that as much and I. It's maybe because of covid nineteen, and maybe just because I'm a lame person, and I don't really go out that much but I was like. Wow, people are mingling, and then they're. They're like making connections like people are dating, and then it's like exciting, and they're going back to the hotel. I was just like. Wow, this seems like another world to me. Also they're dressed up. There's no elastic. Incite no SPANDEX site. They're like wearing fancy clothes. Also, they're staying hotel, which is also like a thank. People weren't doing for a while, so there's just so many non Cova nwsafe things happening that it's like they're breaking all the rules, and it's like we don't. We don't condone it, but we are titillated, but. We. Don't know that it's non covid safe. I'm. Like! Let's say and I don't want to be a cody. You're right. Amanda like everyone. Please take your house safe seriously and take the health of others in your family, and not in your family out in the world. Seriously follow. Local regulations followed the CDC. Like please be safe and please respect other safety that said like I have no idea they are outside. I'm not gonNA like Zapruder Film. This situation I just responded to it as like. That's not what I'm doing. Number one I'm not in London, which is very sad to me many days of the year, but especially right now I I definitely have lilly didn't his heels in the photograph. Well, I haven't worn heels in three to five years. definitely not in two thousand and twenty. They like, and they look like they're having fun and I. Don't mean to say that I have not been having fun at I'm having fun being here with you right now, but I know. How that was not, it doesn't seem like you. took me at my word, but. They they looked carefree and I think that it probably takes a lot of resources. Right onto feel carefree and I'm aware that they have them, but I was also like. Wow, that looks really nice. Gets and good for them. Truly. I just hope everyone is safe and healthy. Yes and I don't know this is just a great of all the couples that could be the first like Papa Razzi shots. See for like from recent partying. This is to me is. Pretty straightforward gets I'm just like straightforwardly pro this couple. If they are a couple, g think they met at the club or were they set up. They must are they like possibly working together on something is she and I guess he's not in Marvel. Stephanie, more he's. Do so yeah, he's out right. He's on the apple show defending data which I have seen every episode of which I don't think many other people have so good. That's my twenty twenty. I it was it was exhilarating. Just because we have not had any news like this in a long time. And that is a strange reflection on twenty twenty, but I'll take it. I will as well great stuff and the other celebrity activity in your life now recent, not like timely celebrity, really the opposite of celebrity like celebrity from thirty to forty to forty years ago. Yeah, forty I think seventies is oh my God. It's almost fifty years ago, nineteen seventy s fifty years ago. Wow, don't do math kids. It'll scare you. Know I briefly wanted to talk about a podcast. That I have really been enjoying the. That is is a lot about gossip celebrity and also about movies. Juliette, are you familiar generally with? You must remember this by Karina Longworth. Yes, I am. I have not listen to it, but I know it's extremely popular. Yeah, it is kind of one of the. It's been around for a while before the most recent podcasts boom, it's a film history gas, and it's written and hosted by Longworth Who Sean Fantasy recently interviewed on the big picture which is our film podcast, but she's done. A lot of seasons has a very famous season about like Charles. Manson's Hollywood. Hollywood and she does a lot of just classical revisiting and and most previous seasons have been. She's a great film historian, and so she'll just do a tremendous around of research and tell you something that you don't didn't know about some of old Hollywood and put it together in new ways and I being movie nerd, really an into that, but this season. She's doing something slightly different, so this season is about a woman named polly Platt in the title of the season. Is polly Platt the invisible woman? And I don't know if you're not familiar with polly. Platt, I'll do the short version. She was a production designer, screenwriter and a film producer in the seventies and kind of the quote conventional narrative about her. Is as the ex wife of Peter, Ghana Vich, who directed the last picture show, and as the woman that Peter Bogdonovich left. For cybill shepherd during the last picture show, and this is like big seventies, film, gossip, and so polly Platt NPR by Donovan still together while like during this onset gossip that was happening and also they were still married. Then they split up and they worked together on two more films. What's up doc and people moon. And then you know sensitive. polly pocket goes on to work with James L. Brooks on like terms of deer, men and broadcast news, and she produced bottle rocket and say anything like she had a very robust career. By it like until now kind of she's been known as like the ex wife and someone who Peter Bogdonovich bitch like doesn't like giving credit to and who? Like publicly and so it's always been kind of in this. Gossipy like footnote of history, and so this season of you must remember. This is about polly Platt and is about all of these things, but it's retelling the story it with an unfinished memoir that polly Platt herself wrote. And Yeah, and which polly Platt's daughters provided to Karina Longworth and the the memoir portions are voiced by Maggie stiff. Oh. Lung, yes. Yeah, and so it's like. I don't want to say that. It's like the non gossip version of because there's a tremendous amount of of of gossip and old stories from that era of Hollywood and if you're interested in that stuff, which I am you know in many ways? It is like the memoirs that we talk about on on this show. And then annotated with great film, history and criticism by. Karina Longworth, but I just I thought. It is been so interesting like as a format because the. More so it is someone talking at first person and telling not just like the gossip or the career, but her own feelings and experience of it, and then because it's being performed by an amazing actress. I'm like Oh. You're like a real person and it's such an interesting way to consume this type of content I don't. Typically like reenactments like in visual documentaries, but this works extremely well, and you find yourself kind of like. You know it's very much on. polly Platt side, but sometimes I'm like I don't know whether I agree with that conclusion and I find that I like kind of having an argument with like a fictional, not a fictional person, but a real person, a embodied by Dr and it's just a very interesting way to interact with. You, know old, Hollywood stories and celebrity gossip, and and how people tell stories about themselves and I really recommend it, and that is the end of my monologue, okay? Great I'm looking for Jimmy and people love that show gender all and she puts I know that green puts like so much work into every single season that she does yes. That sounds fantastic. I mean especially with this void. Again, remarking on how reality TV, stars is dominate right now because they're doing stuff and everyone else is just like not you know. Yeah, yeah, and the other thing is like. I do like there's been a lot of like nostalgia and like history and we do that at the ringer, and this is like this is like celebrity history as well as Hollywood history because they are often combined, but it's you know it's in the person's voice and I. Think. That's really valuable agreed. That's wonderful. Uplifting positive note to end this episode. Checkout out. You must remember this and we will be back next week.

Tom Cruise Emmy Hollywood Chris Evans Oscars polly Platt Tandy Newton Lily James London Jimmy Kimmel Karina Longworth Westworld NFL Cam Newton Carolina Panthers Charlotte Cam Ohio Amy Pascal producer