17 Burst results for "Karesh"
"karesh" Discussed on MyTalk 107.1
"Group of slaves to be branded. Tell me about the night you were branded. It was horrible. At the time, I thought I was doing this empowering bonding moment with a group of friends that I considered my nearest and dearest and you had no idea that it was Keith's initials. I remember that. I mean, that's the that's. The really thing is that we were told that it was a symbol of the elements. And that this was going to be a bonding experience, and we were sleep deprived. We were starved. We were coerced. You don't just decide to be branded your coerced into vain brand. It. Did I blow it for you now, Britney? No. Isn't over. Okay? A lot of this. All this stuff they've knew. The only thing I hadn't known is that that they left a cliffhanger off. Did they get India out? Well, Larry's O'Shea's. That's but I mean all the stuff that I've already talked about. They focused in on two couples that were in Nexium together. And Sarah was one of the girls and she had been branded in the shoulder brand ally and that really blew up during the me to movement. It kind of rode that wave where they were really lucky that that got that national attention as well. And so I think it's still interesting, But I do think that stars did HBO dirty like they came out with this for reason at the time. They did, Because now part of me is like do I finish hbr? Joe? Just go two stars well and stars you like on my plan. I have to buy an extra now. Of course, if it stopped, you know they had So what's the beautiful thing with Catherine and Jamie Fraser to go in the one that goes into sexy? One? Yeah. Outlander Outlander? Yeah, because they had that and then they started charging. But the thing I thought was interesting, and and this is something about these cults is, she says they had collateral. Yes, and it reminds me of the E meters that at Scientology. You think you're releasing all this information, but you're being taped as being audited and that's dirt on you. And then they continue to ask you questions get more and more dirt, even though it's not tour. If it is true, you know, you just keep doing it to get out of it. So it's Collateral, so you can't you're no longer able to make decisions because your family could be affected and other things could be affected. Yeah, this couple Sarah and the husband's name was nippy. They made Sarah. They said this is what we need you for Collateral. Just say that your husband beats your son. But we know it's not true. But that way we have. You know, you can. We can trust that You'll follow your word because you wouldn't want this coming out. So we're going to record you say it relative. I know there have all this footage and that's why a lot of people don't you know, even if they get out of the cult, they say must sneak out. They don't want to be public. There was all these, You know, interviews that they do where they disguise the face Because they're like, Well, we have a lot on me. Right? So, Yeah. Hello called people I know. And like David Karesh, you know he had the sex thing going in his thing and just it's amazing to me. But I feel like people are vulnerable right now. Be careful. I know going to the Scientology building, and that's the thing is, nobody goes into a cult. Nobody says I'm going to join a searching for a more deeper life, he said. When she was growing up, she kind of had everything. And she said, there's got to be more kind of thing. Yeah, well, be careful. Anyway. This is going to the trailers posted..
"karesh" Discussed on Parcast Presents
"David Jones's father Perry rushed into the branch Davidians Chapel he told Karesh he had a phone call Karesh raised his eyebrow who would interrupt Bible study for phone call, but as Perry loomed in the Doorway Karesh realized the gravity of the situation. He excused himself outside the chapel. David? Jones told Koresh about the raid. The reporter had mentioned meanwhile Rodriguez Sat in the chapel, fighting the urge to jump out of the window and run when Koresh came back into the room flustered. He said quote. They're coming. Robert, the time has come. Then Karesh became eerily calm and said. Good Luck Robert. Rodriguez ran out of the compound and back to the undercover house. He called command to let them know that. Koresh had been tipped off. The agent on the other line asked. Did you see anyone preparing to defend the compound? Rodriguez answered honestly know when he left. They were praying before Rodriguez could clarify. The agent hung up ATF Assistant Special Agent in charge Chuck Sarah Ben felt they could still go through with the raid if they got into position immediately. But Rodriguez knew they would be walking into a trap. He nearly threw himself into his truck at the undercover house tires screeching as he barreled towards the command center, which was set up nearly ten miles away at Texas State Technical College. He needed to stop the raid, but by the time he arrived at command, the trucks and trailers were already crossing onto the Mount Carmel Property, driving down the long long driveway towards the compound. There was silence in the command post as the radios went dark Rodriguez retreated to the quiet of the stairwell outside the situation room, he sank. Sank to the floor and started crying just as Rodriguez, suspected right after he left most of the branch Davidian men and one woman, a former police officer grabbed weapons and home-made protective vests before taking up positions at windows that face the outer walls of the compound nevertheless, Bill Buford told his team quote. We got nothing to do, but go ahead and run the plan..
"karesh" Discussed on American Scandal
"It's the evening March. Twenty Fifth Nineteen ninety-three day. Twenty six of the at Mount Carmel at the FBI. Command Post eight miles northeast of Mount Carmel. Gary Messner packs his suitcase. He rubs his tired eyes and steps out of the command post which hums with activity day and night. It's been another grueling day in central Texas. Nestor is the FBI chief negotiator and in the days. Since he arrived he spent. Nearly every waking minute consumed with ending the standoff. There's never been a break. Not even tonight as he drives down a dark highway headed back to his hotel as he glides down the dark road. He spots a car with a bumper sticker. That says Waco Proud. Nestor nods his head. The locals are sick of being known for this craze cult. Seems like everyone on the planet wants the standoff to end everyone except David Koresh necessary grips the steering wheel tightly. He still fuming about an earlier meeting with Jeff Jomar Tomorrow's ATOP FBI commander at Waco but a Nassar's opinion. He's too quick to use force just days ago. Necessarily team got seven adults at Mount Carmel. Including Sheila Martin. The Wifa crushes close legal adviser Wayne Martin but Jomar failed to recognize achievement which was thanks to the negotiators and their diplomacy even worse to mar later. Sent in more tanks to harass Mel Karnal Nelson arrives at the hotel and heads up to his room allies down on the bed and flips on the TV. There's Mount Carmel yet. Again the compound is flooded with stadium lights surrounded by tanks loudspeakers blaring the camera then cuts to a TV. Pundit who says the FBI is failing and it's incapable of winning the standoff. Just then the phone rings necessarily exhausted but he knows he can't ignore the call. Yeah hello this is necessarily a cheery voice comes over the line. Gary throbbed race race boss back at the FBI office in Virginia. Hello Sir what can I do for you so I know it's late but I wanted to tell you? I think you and your team are doing a great job down there in Waco. I mean getting twenty. One kids out of the compound. That's a real accomplishment will thank you Sir bye but listen. Grace Pauses measuring his words and immediately. Nestor feels himself tense up. Something bad is coming. Yeah so the. The reason I'm calling is look Gary. It's time for you to step down as chief negotiator. You've been going nonstop for coming up on. What would five weeks now? It's time for you to get a little Dr. Nestor knows exactly what this means the. Fbi BRASS him out. Sir I feel. I feel that I'm really needed down. Here let me and my team see this through. I feel the negotiating team will be all right but Sir Gary. It's done you fly out tomorrow morning. Ness nervous is stares at the TV at Mount Carmel at the tanks and the wreckage that lies in their wake. He wants to protest but he stops himself. It's IT'S NO USE. Yes Sir understood. Nestor hangs up the phone. He's tired numb. He turns off the TV and stares at the ceiling. Nascar set out to get every man woman and child out of Mount Carmel. We've fallen far short of that. And he has a terrible feeling that he'll always have unfinished business in Waco. It's early April week. Five of the standoff at the F. B. I. Command Post Byron. Sage sits at a desk waiting for an important meeting a meeting. That could set the standoff on a new course after Gary National was removed as chief negotiator. Sage stepped in has the de facto leader of the negotiating team. He was sorry to see. Messner go but he's continued to push hard for a peaceful solution even if progress has been slow coming. Sage has spoken on the phone with David. Koresh and Steve Schneider almost every day for five weeks straight. But it's been two weeks since any adult is walk through the doors of Mount Carmel. Crash hasn't released any children more than a month. Sage STANDS UP. It's time for his meeting with the FBI's Commander Jeff Jamar sage walks past rows of agents all huddled over computer monitors. They have dark rings under their eyes and they look worn thin. Just like sage. Everyone is sick of living off cold pizza and they're tired of David. Koresh having to organize their lives around the whims of a madman. Say Jenner's to Mars Office. The commander is hunched over his desk. His Expression Stern. He gestures for sage to sit and asks. If there's been any progress in getting people out of Mount Carmel sage size and shakes his head to Marlene's in. He wants to know the truth. Can THEY GET DAVID? Koresh to surrender. Sage takes a moment swallows hard. It's difficult to admit after weeks of effort. But he tells Jomar what he believes. The negotiator seemed to have exhausted their options. At this point sages convinced that David. Koresh doesn't care about anyone inside. All He sees are ways to fulfil his own. Grandiose Vision Sage prices lip before offering his final assessment. He's not sure what correct will do if they don't act. Soon Jomar nods. He says he's glad. Sage has come around on the point because the agency has a new solution in mind. It's a plan code-named Jericho. Sage recognizes the name. Jericho from the famous siege. In the Bible Jomar picks up an aerial photograph of Mount Carmel. He points to the compound explains that according to the plan tanks will approach Mount Carmel with specialized equipment outfitted with thirty foot arms. These arms will act like pipes that can penetrate the compound through these pipes. The tanks will then injected tear-gas going room by room. They'll release the gas over a forty eight hour period. They're not looking to force the Davidians out immediately instead. They'll gradually shrank the living space inside the compound until the entire building is saturated with tear gas. At that point the divisions will have no choice but to come out tomorrow looks up from the aerial photograph. He says that once they put Jericho into action. They'll need someone to tell the Davidians about the teargas and to help talk them out of the building. He wants sage to fill that role. Jomar also explains that the highest levels of the FBI are on board soon the FBI director will help. Present the plan to Janet Reno President Clinton's new attorney general and Reno gives the okay. The tactical team will immediately put the plan into action. But right now Jomar wants to know if sage on board with the plan say just lets his mind. Imagine what will surely be a frightening scene inside Mount Carmel. He can picture the thundering tanks. The white clouds of tear-gas filling room after room. Too RISKY PLAN KEEPING KARESH. In-place feels even riskier. This has to end on the FBI's terms so Byron. Sage tells Jomar he's in its April fourteenth. Nine thousand nine hundred ninety three now day forty six of the standoff David Tobacco smiles as he bounds up the stairs to the second floor of Mount Carmel. He feels light on his feet. His former balk wasted after six weeks of combat rations and the hardships of the long siege purged. His last spiritual doubts for the first time in his life timid. Oh feels like he understands what faith truly means at the top of the stairs to stops and grins here. David Koresh sits up against the wall surrounded by large group of followers timid. Oh sees his own hope reflected on their faces earlier today Karesh announced that he will end the standoff once and for all God spoke to the Prophet at the end of Passover. He instructed Karesh to write down. His interpretation of the seven seals. Karesh said it will take two weeks three tops so he called the FBI and said as soon as he finishes writing the seals you'll surrender. There will be no change of plans. Scans the crowd and spots his wife. Michelle she sits with serenity. Her four year old daughter who she had with Karesh Tibidot goes and sits down beside them and serenity crawls into his lap he smiles at her and she settles in Settling on. Karesh is a look of calm and clarity and then he begins to speak exalted and proud as if God is flowing through him he begins dictating the first of the seven seals next to him. Judi Schneider types furiously on a typewriter. She takes down every one of his words even though for the last six weeks. She's had a wound in her hand where she was shot. Creches voice rises. He says that he who has chosen to open the seals. We'll be persecuted exactly. Has He and his followers have been persecuted. These long weeks. Typical smiles at Michelle encrypt serenity tightly together. They've outlasted these hardships the endless screeching from the loudspeakers the dwindling supply of food and Water. The abundance of death and fear and suffering but as Tibidot sits among his family he finally feels at peace because once David Koresh finishes the seals together they will emerge from Al Karnal and the world will see that they are God's.
"karesh" Discussed on The Gerry Callahan Podcast
"Great until yesterday yell Ettelaat of them. Yes yes we do a couple thousand Kirk didn't tell people to go. Give me one star ratings you just told people to unsubscribe and he. It's like they won't do it. They don't listen to me but his excuse has always been he's five. It's pretty good. It was five until yesterday. aiden I mean but that's going to happen nonetheless you look at it. Best friends turns all his cult members. If I'm just a regular I dunno anything about the show when I see all fives and ones and nothing in between. That's usually the sign of a good show. Because you know those I tried to. I tried to tell him this morning. Apple can pick up on this shit. Is that going to the from the algorithm all all of a sudden a hundred people at the same time basically. Yeah so what do they do. They eliminate those probably not. But I don't think I mean but but that's obviously a campaign when you look at the negative comments it's all one thing in common. Oh the RAIMO. Yeah Harry. Allegra is mentioned. Reema say whatever Kirk told him to say they say all your disloyal and all that crap that they heard from Kirk and they go into action they. They're just like Dave Cullen. They live from pat on the head. You know from podcast awed cast Jesus Callahan. Yes that's all those are all. He's alerts Jerry. Not Kirk supports me. Nothing says support port more. Like don't subscribe podcast but whatever. I'm not doing this again. He really asked to call. It is a we saw. Sherborne was intense strange. I enjoy the class Sunday with the call. It doesn't mean I'm not my oh man I don't pats on the back like these Dave Karesh and and Dave Cohen will gladly die in a blaze glory for him a tenth of talent of Mike Salk or Willie Cologne cheap. Who would say that and they probably texting Kirk Texted Robinson? Did you see my review town. Creating anything.
"karesh" Discussed on Hostage
"This is our first episode on the failed raid and ensuing standoff turned hostage crisis between American law enforcement agencies and cult leader. David Koresh in Waco, Texas on February twenty eighth nineteen Ninety-three following multiple firearms violations. The US bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms attempted to execute an arrest warrant for cult leader, David Koresh at his compound just outside Waco. The ATF plan to ambush the compound arrest Karesh, but the cult leader got tipped off in time to arm himself and his followers. The result was a fifty one day siege that left seventy six dead, including unarmed. Women and children who were held hostage throughout the siege this week, we'll look at Karesh and his followers. The case built against him and the tr-. Tragic domino effect that led to the shootout ceasefire and extended standoff played out on national television next week. We'll follow the negotiations between the FBI and Karesh the cult leader's engagement with the media, and the sieges explosive conclusion. Today's episode of hostage revolves around a cult, and who better to help us take a deep dive into the Branch Davidians than our friends, Greg, and Vanessa host of cash show, cults. They'll be joining us for these two episodes. Hi, everyone were excited to return to David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. It's a fascinating story. Thanks for having us. Thanks for joining us. Let's get started. The compound known as Mount Carmel was the home of a doomsday cult led by failed. Musician turned prophet. David Koresh Caracas followers had originally referred to themselves as the Branch Davidians. But by nineteen Ninety-three he had begun calling them the students of the seven seals a reference to Karesh his belief that the apocalyptic events in the book of revelation would soon come to pass around the same time, the ATF became aware of caresses massive stockpile of weapons, including one hundred and thirty six firearms over two hundred thousand rounds of ammunition and the materials to make at least four hundred m thirty one rifle grenades. Additionally, the state of Texas had been investigating Karesh for the alleged physical and sexual abuse of the many children living on the compound. They knew that Karesh followers. These were prepared to both kill and die for him what they didn't know was that Karesh had been preparing for the raid for over a year. And in a way Karesh had been preparing for the ensuing siege his entire life. He was a born master manipulator, and the infamous siege at Waco would prove that his control over his followers was absolute David Koresh was born Vernon Wayne Howell on August seventeenth nineteen fifty nine in Houston, Texas. Vernon's mother, Bonnie Clark was fourteen years old when she gave birth to him, his biological father twenty year old Bobby Wayne Howell left, Bonnie for another teenage girl before Vernon was born Vernon's childhood was a rocky one. He was abused by his mother's string of boyfriends until he was four years old. When Bonnie sent him to live with his grandmother at some point, Bonnie came back for her son, but. Our relationship was damaged. However they begin to bond again, thanks to their shared, Christian faith, Vernon had always demonstrated an interest in the bible. And while he struggled with dyslexia when reading other texts he found he was able to find the spirit of the bible, even if the written words came with great difficulty by the age of fourteen he had memorized, the New Testament and by eighteen he had mastered the Old Testament as well. He would later tell B FBI negotiators that God had spoken to him as a child, whether Vernon actually believed God had spoken to him as a complicated question. What's more likely is that growing up in Texas? He was constantly exposed to the amount of influence and respect. Preachers had over their communities and wanted to be seen as equally infallible. So he became an expert preacher. He quickly demonstrated an ability to synthesize different parts of the SCR. Pictures and quote them at length. This had a dizzying effect on the listener, and drew in followers, who were convinced he spoke with the conviction of faith, as opposed to the need for power or classmate of his, Larry McDonald said, quote, Verne was kind of a quiet guy. But when he wanted to he could turn it on, as if stepping out on stage, the guy could be Meg network. The Karesh.
"karesh" Discussed on Timesuck with Dan Cummins
"No among other things provided all davidians began leaving the compound as of ten a m on march 2030 doesn't take the deal nother dividian leaves the compound the following day wednesday march twenty four the fbi calls crush liar and a coward or in a press conference i have to agree with that assessment monday march 29th for nearly two hours david creation famed texas criminal defense attorney dick deguerin meet at the door of the compound speak to more times following day where instill convinced crush would have surrendered had the fbi been more patient i just i just read an interview with him about it from a few weeks ago tuesday april first guerin meets with karesh again this time inside the compound tells crested the fbi have agreed to drop all charges convinces correct walk outside the compound the second david koresh karesh crosses the threshold of the front door fbi sniper shooting twice in the lake and then guerin yells april fool's mother federal oh oh man i just got you good oh man agai you good april fools no dwyer until the fbi the davidians will surrender some time on or before able tenth for the next week there's just a lot of sitting and waiting wednesday able severance karesh refuses to confirm and exit date with negotiator so he is just infuriating to deal with friday april ninth david send a message to the fbi saying that the heavens are calling you to judgment to experts analyze letters for others sent over the next few days and conclude is proud possibly psychotic and has no intention of leaving voluntarily the fbi begins to finalise a plant used teargas now to flush every one out of the compound at for several days of more attempts have fruitless negotiations karesh goes ill gets back onto more bible babbel and refuses to exit the compound until god tells him to do so wednesday april fourteen karesh sends a message to the fbi that he will not surrender until he has a written manuscript explain the seven seals on my guest to europe saying he's not going to surrender an tell you know he is just completely perfectly explained the seven seals several.
"karesh" Discussed on Timesuck with Dan Cummins
"I hope they'll is the whole thing i doubt they what they're going to care for the aunt edna geriatric vaginal wrinkle cream lead in i'll have too much fun as most fun i've had recording in while on this i always have bumper that was i dunno i correct cry i hope he has like that i clearly like that okay all right okay back back to a time now when crash was not sleeping on a lisa he was sleeping with the sixyearold branch davidian leader named nameless also 94 a few breaks out in the wake of compound between crashing george roden lowest his son for 54 54 year old son and results in most of the congregation leaving the compound and going to live with crashing nearby palestine texas for a couple of years now 1985 losses on george roden threatens karesh still going by burn this time with a gun to stay away from his mom even filed a federal lawsuit accusing burn of raping his mom brainwashing her and turning her against him had it must be an awkward and how do you do that how do you how do you get a federal lawsuit he was doing over tires this guy's rave my mom brainwashed her with your mommy they want to come and hit now she thinks is fun i don't get tainted macomb cuba so so weird this fifty field that if mcgregor i bet you him up talking in a high highpitched voice to and june 1980 six michael mother fucking mcdonald releases his second solo album no looking back feature in his latest tapped and hit out the running scared soundtrack sweet freedom check it out.
"karesh" Discussed on On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts
"Portrayal that crush who's saying oh i'm being very careful about my guns and i'm i'm not doing anything a legally and even tells the undercover agents don't bring illegal weapons around here but the fact is that there were people in the in the group who uh after the siege said absolutely we were converting uh legal assault rifles to illegal machinegunned there was one guy in particular the brought the heavy equipment needed to do it all the way from california and talked about karesh teaching him with the video how to do this and he fouts makes them 48 illegal weapons they found grenades and there's also a really serious question about who fired first there were three reporters actually out there that day three journalists none of that there were more than that but none of the journalists were brought by a t f in fact a tia did not know they were going to calm uh and that's a very complicated issue too but the three of the journalists who were are there said the shooting started before the agents were out of the trailers and their initial account was that they believe that the purse gun shots came from inside now there's a lot of different accounts of what happened i mean this was basically a war zone so it was very confusing very fast but snow million god let me to still be no one is this spring bring you back to that churns first thing that a lot of us saw 25 years ago i mean i remember watching this live when cnn for literally weeks and then seeing that awful fire you were down there covering it what was it like what was your impression i mean did you did you realize what a a sort of ungodly unprecedented event this this this was absolutely very quickly i mean there had been never anything like it i mean you know if there had never been this kind of shooed out uh an american law enforcement history not just for atf that for anybody.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Well suffice it to say that conversation went on much much longer in their hundreds of tapes of this negotiation conversations between the fbi and karash but april nine forty one days into the standoff crush set four letters to the fbi one said the heavens are calling you to judgment it signed y'all way karesh which translates to god death the fbi enlisted psychological experts to analyze the letters they disagreed slightly uncorrected state of mind but essentially considered him to be in a highly paranoid state and possibly psychotic and they agreed that he has no intention of coming out it's worth noting that on top of everything that was already going on with karash from a psychological perspective he was still healing from a serious gunshot wound the tall that takes on the body and mind is significant even when the bullet exits the body there is a high risk of infection from the residue he must have been in nificant pain april ninth was easter sunday it came and went the following day the teargas plan was presented to attorney general janet reno she was told that it would be implemented incrementally driving the branch davidians to untainted areas of the compound and eventually out to safety repeatedly reno asked why no why not wait but she was eventually persuaded to take action the following day karesh said he wouldn't come out until god told a two but god had remained silent on the subject a ray of hope arrived on april 14th karesh said that he needed to write a manuscript of his interpretation of the seven seals when that was complete then he would come out meanwhile government officials continue to explore the teargas player military experts were consulted about its possible effects on children reno was told it should have no permanent impact on their health on april 16th karesh reported that he finished his writings on the first seal reno rejected the.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Teargas plan we heard david tip it owes version of crushes story about his vision on mount zion on april eighth karesh told an fbi negotiator the same story which we have in transcript for it may help our listeners appreciate a bit more clearly would karesh was like during these calls i'll read karesh vanesse is going to read the negotiator and so there's only one acid test for anybody that claims to be enlightened in regards to the knowledge of god show me the seals and if they can't than they have to wait until somebody can david how did you get the point where you can interpret the seals well in 1985 i was in israel and there was these russian cosmonauts that were but the reason i'm telling you about this is 'cause we got two witnesses to this the russian cosmonauts gave the report that they saw seven and djelic beings flying towards earth with the wings the size of a jumbo jet okay so what happened was a 1985 when i was in israel i met up with those people seriously you met up who the two cosmonauts none on her seat the russian cosmonauts were in their space station right and they radio down to the headquarters they were terrified right i can understand that they saw seven angelic beings movie toward the earth okay and you met these seven angelic beans exactly where in israel yeah but where in israel a mugs zaire oh okay okay let me tell you something it's awesome angels don't really have wings but what they have is called up merca fought a what america which is it's a it's a spaceship a spaceship it's a vehicle it it travels by light the refraction of light oh okay you know how the rainbow and all that yeah this are you familiar with eric von daniken who's a chariot of the gods yeah what you see i got the film a 1980's six or eighty seven because i was looking for documentation.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Charles against the wishes of the negotiators tactical units went rogin number of times and put pressure on the compound by moving vehicles closer and getting in more threatening positions crush didn't like it he refused to talk until power was restored the power became an onagain offagain bargaining chip marched 10th 11th came and went with little progress the newlyelected president clinton's attorney general janet reno first woman to be in the position was sworn in on march twelfth and brought up to speed on the situation that same day cathy schroder exited the compound reiterating the group's claim that there would be no mass suicide years later she told a reporter that the reason she laughed was because she'd been caught smoking karesh said her quote reckless disregard for god's law was going to caused the whole group to be held back and quote that and concern for her kids who are already out is why she walked upon leaving kathy watt arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit murder and served three years she got a much lighter sentence than five survivors who were given forty year sentences for their role in the deaths of the four atf agents that night the fbi cut the power again and the dividions used it as a reason not to come out the fbi hoped the cold night would encourage more davidians to give up but the adults who were left still believed they had a lot to lose karesh had been teaching them for years that if they left they could kiss goodbye eternal life over the next week infant test more progress was made the fbi used torture techniques including bright lights to disrupt people sleep they played loud music and disturbing styles including the screens of dying rabbits on march 19th karesh said he was ready to surrender to other adult men left the compound but not karash over the coming days another seven adults came out one of them read a riddle later.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"March fifth 1993 brought terrifying news nine year old heather jones left the compound with a note from her mother pinned to her jacket it said that once the children have left the compound the adults will die that note drove home the question on the minds of everyone in law enforcement would this standoff end in mass suicide karesh and steve schneider repeatedly denied to the fbi that the group had plans for mass suicide but the fbi didn't trust them some people who had already left the cult reported that karesh preached with regularity about how they all eventually have to die for him and children who had been released earlier said things to psychologists that led them to believe mass suicide was possible but there are also those who believed that karesh didn't plan to commit mass suicide that he just wanted to get his message out to the world and once he was satisfied that he done that heeds up down from the proverbial led jr there was continued disagreement among law enforcement as to the likelihood of mass suicide and again of extreme concern were the dozens of children still behind compound walls the fbi determined that the branch davidians had ample weapons and ammunition to fight back if the fbi tried to breach the compound and enough food to last about a year from march six to eight conversation between the fbi and karesh and steve what nowhere the fbi delivered milk for the children and crush sent out a tape of children said they were happy with crush he pointed out a number of his own children including his oldest son cyrus who he fathered with his first teenage wife rachel cyrus was only eight years old on march ninth the fbi cut the power to mount carmel continued armored vehicle movement agitated karash and steve the fbi saw weapons in the compound windows and men pudding plywood covers over windows with cut outs for gunther.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Bolger for his ideas the safety of his followers was secondary karesh got what he wanted at one thirty pm the tape was broadcast by the christian broadcasting network but by six p m karesh had reversed himself he said he got another message from god god told him to stay put the fbi negotiators were in a tough position they were trained in hostage negotiation but in this situation they had a group of people who were captive to an ideology rather than someone with a literal gun to their heads from the branch davidians perspective they had more to fear from the fbi than by staying hunkered down with karash if everything went up in flames as karesh had been preaching for years they would still have eternal life if they left their leader side they be doomed to eternal damnation mike all the other nonbelievers this was the moment of truth march third past with a lot of religious ramblings by kereish he talked to the negotiators a lot about how he was anointed to unlock the seven seals some survivors reported that he told them that they were now in the midst of the fifth seal defeat to seal was when they would be martyred in a moment of great persecution they were ready to die and then wait for the other martyrs before they got to live forever in the new kingdom that would be ushered in after the full cycle of seals was complete karesh also described as gunshot wounds he said quote i've tried to sit up which i can't do and also my hip like i say it's you know being shots a dramatic thing it shocks the body and plus you know like i said it cracked or went through or did something at the top part of my hip bone because it hit me from the site of my belly headed over and hit the hip and then when a rounded out kind of like towards my rear and quote in spite of his serious injuries karesh was alert and showing no signs of waning in his fervor on march fourth correct.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Her another story is clear and it's a lot less prophetic and a lot more logical at minimum crush knew that the polygamous house of david was frowned on by american society 1993 on top of that in his supposed quest for more offspring he'd been having sex with many of his wives some of whom were just children themselves these facts not to mention the weapons violations may government intervention not just likely but inevitable it didn't take a direct line to god to know that the government would come after karash as testament to how illprepared the atf was and how well armed the branch davidians were toward the end of the gun battle the atf was running out of ammunition while the branch davidians were still ready to fire at will while the average time for a gun battle with law enforcement is under one minute the february twenty eight atf shootout with the branch davidians lasted over two hours when the shooting finally started to die down the atf was running out of it in addition but the branch davidians were still locked and loaded once a temporary ceasefire was brokered the atf agents were able to come in and clear out their casualties the local police encouraged crash to accept medical assistance for the branch davidians but karesh said none of them were injured seriously enough and they did want help he didn't reveal that the branch davidians had already lost six people and he himself was wounded by gunfire on his left wrist and hip one of his wounded followers later told negotiators on the phone that she didn't want to come out for treatment she'd rather die standing up for their cause it begs the question what was their cause at this point and for karash the conflict itself was a means to an end the longer the standoff dragged on the more heated at guide and the more it bolstered every claim he'd made to his followers about the confrontation he predicted the persecution he felt the world had in store for him and suppose it end of the world that was near.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"The raid was coming rodriguez realize karesh knew he was with the feds his cover was blown rodriguez took off it's interesting to note that there was no friction between the men karesh wasn't panicked he was happy to let rodriguez leave karesh had predicted a confrontation with the government and it was about to happen though mighty men and others sprang into action the reported to have put on black armored clothing that was sown by their very own former wives a federal affidavit said that wayne martin wore a necklace of hand grenades the women and children for the most part went into hiding though at least one woman a former police officer took part in the firefight she was one of the six branch dividians who died that morning rodriguez notified the atf that the branch davidians new the atf was coming bat atf plan was predicated on a surprise visit but instead of postponing the operation the atf leadership determined that they would go ahead with the raid they wanted to russian hopeful that the branch davidians wouldn't have time to get ready for them in hindsight it was an incredibly foolish decision they were looking to take a sizeable compound there were dozens of vehicles onsite including buses the buildings were ranged in a tight rectangle their formation with a large pool along the back left side the buildings included tactically significant structures like water tower and a watchtower there were group living quarters karesh is living quarters a jim used for storage and multiple concrete bunkers reaching the compound wouldn't be a simple task but within hours at nine thirty a m the atf attempted to execute their warrants one hundred agents piled into two cattle trailers and hid under large tarts there were helicopters with gunmen incoming the communication among the atf crew was shoddy some new that the branch davidians might be heavily armed while others did not theirs.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Materials could get them working in the atf 1993 raid were it it states that when the ups driver went to mount carmel to deliver packages he saw several manned observation posts and believe the observers were armed the ward also includes information from the texas department of human services about their 1992 visit to investigate the sexual abuse allegations one of their employees mrs sparks reported quote she talked to a young boy about seven or eight years old the child said that he could not wait to grow up and be a man when ms sparks asked him why he was in such a hurry to grow up he replied that when he grew up he would get a long gun just like all the other men there and quote though the jurisdictional motivation for the atf rate of mount carmel was the suspected illegal weapons the warned sites multiple sources alleging the sexual abuse of young girls one source cited in the warrant was robin bonds it describes how it said team she'd married karash but left him after the new light doctrine when he struck up a sexual relationship with her mother quote according to mrs bonds karesh has regular sexual relations with young girls there the girls ages are from eleven years old to adulthood and quote mark bro who helped curies father get custody said that back in 1988 he was once asked by karesh we thought was karesh his favorite wife broke guests karesh is first and only legal wife rachel but karesh replied that it was rachel sister quote can you believe that mark she's been with me since she was twelve years old unquote protecting the children at mount carmel was the top priority for law enforcement officials the accusations of corrections sexual abuse lit a fire in their hearts and that may have been part of what drove them to act so brashly on the actual day of the raid never expecting what karesh and his followers had in store for them once the branch davidians were on the tips radar.
"karesh" Discussed on Cults
"Like other husband's he primarily saw his wife during bible study under the watchful eyes of karesh crush didn't like the men to spend time with their children the parent childbond could threaten his control but kathy arranged secret visits so michael could see his son like wayne and michael many davidians had jobs in the community and turn their wages over to crash but gun dealing was a particularly profitable business with the added bonus of allowing the group to easily build at arsenal you might be wondering why the median arsenal karesh felt the pressures of outside culture he knew his views and his practices particularly polygamy and having sex with his wives some of whom were children as young as eleven were not only outside the mainstream but also considered criminal activity he knew he was on the government radar in february of 1992 a full year before the tea afraid the texas department of human services and two sheriff's deputies paid the compound a visit to investigate claims risen from the curie jewel custody battle namely that karash was sexually abusing girls this amplified karesh is beliefs that he would be martyred for his cause but he wasn't planning to go down without a fight he prepared for armed conflict and carried a glock which he kept close at hand even when he slept also in 1992 a couple of the mighty men were alleged to have traveled to california to pick up a machinegun conversion kit from the bunce pomona house the bunce had found the kid after the branch davidians cleared out but saved it in the garage in case karesh ever came for it even though the left the group they couldn't entirely escape crushes hold on them in a way they were still protecting him if they had fully cut ties they might have just gotten rid of it but he had enough residual power over the bonds family that they stored his property for him ultimately it was this type of weaponsrelated intelligence that brought the atf to mount carmel doorstep the atf was first alerted to the branch davidians penchant for heavy arms in the summer of 1992 when a ups delivery driver noticed weapons as well as grenade casings inside a torn package that he delivered to mount carmel though the grenades were inert someone with the right skills sat in.