20 Episode results for "Kansas Supreme Court"
NPR News: 04-12-2020 6AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Laurie London. The US has surpassed Italy to have the most confirmed corona virus. Death in the world and Paris Jason Bobbie-ann reports more than twenty thousand people in the US have now died and more than a half million are infected. According to researchers at Johns Hopkins University the Corona Virus Pandemic has now killed more people in the US than anywhere else on the globe. The most intense outbreak continues to be in the New York Metro area and accounts for nearly forty five percent of all cases nationwide outside of Newark New Jersey. There've been surges in several states over the last week. Michigan has the third highest tally of cases of the last seven days confirmed infections nearly doubled in Massachusetts Pennsylvania in Louisiana the revenue cases however slowed in Washington state with first domestic case was detected in late. January globally Spain now reporting the second most cases behind the US although the death toll in Italy remains higher than in Spain Jason Fane NPR news abortion providers in Texas have filed an emergency application with the Supreme Court. Trying to block part of Governor Greg Abbott's executive order banning almost all abortions in the state because of the corona virus as NPR's Nina Totenberg reports. A federal. Judge has twice intervened to allow some abortions and the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals twice. Reverse the judge's order abortion providers are asking the Supreme Court to allow the continues of medical abortions with pills in the first trimester of pregnancy. Roughly one third of the abortions in the state or performed that way. Nancy Northop CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights notes that these procedures can be done via telemedicine. Texas she said is blatantly abusing its emergency powers to obliterate the rights of women seeking to terminate their pregnancies while the ruling by the Federal Appeals Court based in Texas is an outlier. The Supreme Court itself is now dominated by conservative justices including two trump appointees who have largely sided with abortion opponents in other cases Nina Totenberg. Npr News Washington as the UK. Heads into its third week of lockdown. Queen? Elizabeth has made a rare televised address. She urged people to take heart in the message of Easter. It's a way of showing how the good news of Christ. Resurrection is being passed on from the first Easter by every generation. Until now this year Easter will be different for many of us but by keeping apart we keep other safe last Sunday and only only the fifth televised address in her sixty eight year reign the ninety three year old monarch said the corona virus outbreak can be overcome if people remain resolute in the face of isolation this is NPR. Saturday night live made history last night. For the first time the show's ninety minute episode was written and filmed remotely from the homes of the cast and producers and Paris TV critic. Eric Duggan's has the story. Saturday night live at home kicked off with his biggest surprise host. Tom Hanks who was one of the first celebrities diagnosed with corona virus in mid March since being diagnosed. I had been more like America's Dad than ever before. No one wants to be around me very long and I make people uncomfortable. It wasn't a live show. The material was filmed in. Advance with many sketches. Making fun of the video chat and social media technology so many US while sheltering Larry David showed up to play Bernie Sanders and Alec Baldwin dropped into weekend update as president trump. The show's most touching moment was a tribute to sketch music producer. Hal Wilner who died a few days ago with symptoms. Consistent with Corona Virus Eric Dagens. Npr News. The Kansas Supreme Court has ruled against a Republican controlled legislative panel. That tried to overturn. The Democratic governor's executive order banning religious and funeral services of more than ten people during the corona virus pandemic. Easter is typically. The busiest day on the Christian calendar in terms of church. Attendance judges in a hearing via video conference said the panel had exceeded its authority. I'm Laurie London and you're listening to NPR news in Washington.
Religious Freedom and the Coronavirus
"In the midst of this Corona Virus Crisis Christians can care both for those who are suffering and for religious liberty. In fact. We must care about book for the Colson Center. I'm John Stonestreet. This is breakpoint. The media narratives that have emerged from the cove. Nineteen pandemic are varied some like the lack of supplies for medical personnel. First responders are very important others like the stories about churches in their defiant pastors who refuse to comply with physical distancing and stay at home orders. Well they're mostly selective in overblown. Of course there are churches and pastors behaving badly. A few very few less than one percent in fact to suggest that representative of all Christians is both misleading and slanderous also largely ignored in so many of these stories about these churches is the fact that in many towns counties and states the stay at home. Orders are well confusing. Some might even be illegal. Understandably many Christian struggled to know how to take the alarming headlines about pastors being arrested and many churches and Christian ministry struggle to know how to carry out their mission at this time. Kristen Wagner Vice President of the alliance defending freedom told me that. Atf is now receiving about one hundred calls a day from churches and other ministries about Cova nineteen related issues that are asking for help and understanding and complying with Federal State County municipal orders that regulations are being issued at these four levels of government is just one of the potential problems and the orders. Not Confusing or inconsistent are at times being applied and enforced inconsistently or in ways discriminatory against the free exercise of Religion. The most important thing to remember is Christian Wagner stated and during the podcast is that First Amendment rights cannot be suspended permanently. That's why the threat from New York City Mayor Bill De Blasios to permanently closed. Some churches after the crisis is manifestly absurd to main requirements. Must be met for any infringement on religious freedom including during a time of national or local emergency I any. Infringement must advance a compelling state interest and second it must be done in the least restrictive way possible now what constitutes a compelling state interest will of course vary according to circumstances for example the government could have a compelling interest to limit how people can gather during an emergency or even how many people can gather though this would infringe on religious liberty. And that's what the Kansas Supreme Court ruled over the weekend. The orders however must be clear. A person should be able to understand what is and what is not restricted without having to hire a lawyer according to wagoner many of the Cova nineteen restrictions are failing. This clarity test. Especially at the local level unclear restrictions make inconsistent enforcement by government nearly inevitable. This is especially true and local officials have an agenda and see an opportunity to take advantage of a crisis in crackdown on groups. They don't like including religious ones. For instance and both Charlotte and Greensboro North Carolina in recent days believers have been arrested for praying outside abortion clinics even though they were obeying local distancing orders last week the Mayor of Louisville Kentucky in explicitly attempted to bar a church from holding a drive in service. A service where no one gets out of their cars a federal judge cited scathingly with the church writing in his opinion that on Holy. Thursday in American mayor criminalized the communal celebration of Easter. That sentences. One this court never expected to see outside the pages of a dystopia novel or perhaps the pages of the onion now I was encouraged when Kristen Wagner told me that most of the time a simple letter written to state and local officials pointing out problems or seeking clarification in their is all it takes. The profession analogy of the alliance defending freedom one of their best tools. But they're pretty good in court to even in the best of times guarding our First Amendment freedoms can be an uphill battle and these are not the best of times that's why I'm grateful that Kristen Wagner and the alliance defending freedom. Are there to help. Guide us through these confusing times my interview with Christian Wagoner Airs Today on the break point. Podcast subscribe to the break point podcasts. Wherever you get your podcast or come to breakpoint dot org to listen for breakpoint. I'm John Stonestreet.
NPR News: 04-12-2020 7AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Laurie London. The US now has more than twenty thousand corona virus deaths the most of any country worldwide about half of the deaths in the US happened in New York in the New York Metropolitan area but fear is mounting over an eruption of hot spots in the Midwest. Spain is beginning to roll back. Corona virus measures Monday. Non Essential businesses will return to normal activity that includes the construction and industrial sectors. Lucia. Ben Evita's reports. Spain is now seeing a slower increase of cases and deaths. Spain's interior minister said the government will hand out ten million facemasks to public transit users. On Monday. A S- thousands of people had to work again but some health experts say these rollback measures come too early and they should be accompanied by mass testing and a program that would isolate new. Corona virus carriers. Lucy Aben Evita's reporting the Chicago area has been identified as a potential new corona virus. Hotspot Governor Jay. Pritzker took time out Saturday to answer questions from children and teens as NPR's Joanna Broder reports Scher's audience was a welcome change. Pritzker told the facebook live audience that he knows the lives of children and teens have been turned upside down and their questions are really important to him. Many students wanted to know when they will go back to School Illinois. Schools are closed until April thirtieth nineteen states have extended their school closures through the end of the school year and it is unclear if pritzker will too. I will not reopen the schools until I feel confident that you going back to school is a healthy thing for you to do but but I'm hopeful. Students also asked about summer in terms of pools and camps. Pritzker said he would look at all the ways to open things up as much as possible but there will be rules in place to keep people healthy Joanna Broder. Npr news churches across the country of closed their sanctuaries because of Cova nineteen and as Michigan. Radio's Doug Tabu reports some Easter services. Just outside Detroit will have a very different look this year. Many churches have already been offering their services online for weeks now but some are trying other approaches at its location in Southfield Michigan Triumph. Church is offering driving services on a large outdoor screen. Solomon Kinloch junior is the pastor. People could get in their car drive faithfully up to the church parking lot. Turn on their radio. Listen to the worship experience and watch the service Kinloch says he encourages people to make their offerings electronically but ushers will be in the parking lot wearing gloves and holding buckets to accept cash and checks for NPR news. I'm Doug Tabu in Ann Arbor Michigan this is NPR news. Italian tenor and Global Opera Star. Andrea Bocelli is giving a solo performance today at the historic Duomo Cathedral of Milan Italy. Npr's David Green spoke to him about what it means to perform during covert nineteen. It is Easter this Sunday and in Milan the renowned Italian tenor Andrea Bocelli. We'll be sending a message of love and hope to the world especially Italy. John Harness and Jelica is one of the songs. Celli will be performing Sunday at the Milan Cathedral. Which is known as the Duomo many times have performed this piece also in front of the vote for example. It's a beautiful page music. On Easter there will be no audience because of the pandemic just Celli and his organised in the Empty Cathedral. He'll livestream this concert on his Youtube Channel for free. That's NPR's David Greene. The Kansas Supreme Court has ruled against a Republican controlled legislative panel. That tried to overturn. The Democratic governor's executive order banning religious and funeral services of more than ten people during the corona virus pandemic. Easter is typically the busiest day in the Christian calendar in terms of church. Attendance judges a hearing via video. Conference said the panel had exceeded its authority this is NPR news.
Save the USPS (feat. Jon Cryer)
"Hi I'm Joe Firestone. Have a new podcast out now called everyday decisions. It's a show where I talked about the last twenty four hours of their life. They're still alive. They continue to live but the last twenty four hours before they recorded. That's what I'm talking about and talking about little decisions that they make throughout their day And I I really think that these decisions like you know whether you choose cue tips or cotton balls. I think these are the kinds of things that really Make make the great people great. So that's why I'm talking to them. We're going to have all kinds of guests like dentists and Comedians and musicians and You know children under five. It's going to be very good so subscribe now wherever you listen to your podcast June. A hello and welcome to the daily means for Monday thirteenth. Twenty twenty today. The Wisconsin in Alaska primaries the celebrity Apprentice Tapes Weinstein is charged in Los Angeles. California could have had a corona virus longer than we thought a win for voting rights in New Hampshire two major stories about what trump knew and when he knew it dropped over the weekend. Trump's labor secretary comes under fire corona virus misinformation Chernobyl Krakatoa because why not twenty twenty. The Democrats get a win in the Kansas Supreme Court in an interview with Jon Cryer about the Republican efforts to steal the November election. By letting the post office close. I'm your host G. I'll be joined later for the good news by Jordan Coburn. Alright so thank you to everyone who joined us Friday afternoon Four PM Pacific Time for our Happy Hour Quarantine Cocktail Extravaganza. It was fabulous. Everybody who was dressed up it was wonderful And it's just something that we look forward to every week now and we're going to do it again this week. Send US your ideas for a theme. Because we had the first one was seamless. Second one was the Pajama Jam. Jam then we had a dressy cocktail attire. This last week and so let us know what What you think maybe we can do a tiki theme or or something Something to that effect but send your suggestions in hit us up at daily Bean Bean pod on twitter at daily beans pod or AP Miller. She wrote on twitter either. One works And you can send your ideas also to hello at militia wrote dot Com or Amanda Waller. She wrote Dot Com. And we'll take all of your suggestions and your questions for that Upcoming Friday tradition. Which I absolutely love I look forward to it We have a ton of news that happened over the weekend. So let's just jump in and hit the high notes hot notes okay. So let's go through these headlines. There was a lot of stuff that happened this weekend. First of all the Alaska primary results are in Alaska votes entirely by mail. One hundred percent of the returns are back and Biden has one Alaska fifty five to forty five Bernie Sanders with forty five As we know sanders has a suspended his campaign but he is keeping his name on the ballot and the remaining states to gather more delegates in hopes of eggs. You know being able to exert some leverage over the the Democratic Platform The for the party platform at the convention over the Summer Wisconsin Also voted as we know. We've covered the suit in the last week. It was kind of a battle going on between Governor Evers and the Republicans in the state assembly and Senate and Ever lost that battle and people were forced to vote in person amid this pandemic and The it went all the way. The Supreme Court and Supreme Court voted remotely to tell people. They weren't allowed to vote remotely But those Wisconsin results won't be out until tomorrow Or today if you're listening on Monday they'll be out Monday. How about we just say that. And from page Saint John in Los Angeles Times early cove in nineteen deaths in the bay area in California suggests that Corona virus had established itself in the community long before health official start poking around and that lag time has allowed the virus to spread unchecked before social distancing rules went into effect study out from Stanford shows a dramatic viral surge in February but data collected by the CDC and local health departments suggest. It was a lot earlier most likely back in December and it wasn't recognized because we were having a severe flu season on top of it and symptoms are very much alike as you know there. There are differences but they're very much alike. The Bay area is a natural hub for those travelling to and from China according to the La Times and Santa Clara County had its first two cases almost a week before federal approval for emergency testing on February fourth and both travelers were returning from Wuhan. Couple that with little or no community testing in January and February and you could see where Stanford draws its conclusions about the viral spike in February. I know Jordan had some How to how to sickness at the end of January that she's you know worker hunt all convinced that she had it Because of her you know the very specific symptoms that she had and hopefully soon. We'll have more access to serology tests where we can find out if we are carrying the antibody meaning we have had covert nineteen and speaking of early detection. The New York Times dropped to monster stories over the weekend about an email group called Red Dawn. And what the federal government knew and when they knew it about corona virus. We've heard a lot of stories about Trump and early warnings That he received in the White House received But this just sort of puts it all together. It's through credible Journalism and the examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for pandemic but internal divisions and lack of planning and faith in his own instinct led to this crappy response and part of the Red Dawn group which is named after the movie about the movies about a group of Americans trying to save the country from an invasion Part of this group which is comprised of public health experts from universities and agencies across the country included. Dr Carter measure from the. Va who wrote on the night of January. Twenty eight back in January. Quote any way you cut it. This is going to be bad. The projected size of the outbreak already seems hard to believe and we know that addition in addition to read Don And and these doctors WHO and FAO. She was part of this group as well There was a memo circulated by Peter. Navarro on January twenty ninth but also predicted half a million deaths and cost trillions of dollars. The current virus could could take trillions away from the economy minivan is trump limited travel from China at the end of January which were showing as has not having been effective even though he keeps touting it as wonderful genius public health had to compete with economic considerations in internal debates and basically what happened is all the public. Health officials agreed. That travel bans were useless. And Mitigation or non pharmaceutical interventions known as N. P. is where the answer and the only answer closing schools social distancing etc and in February Dr Cadillac from the Health Department of Health and Human Services had run tabletop exercise concluding pretty much the same stuff that Navarro concluded and health experts decided to meet with trump to tell him he had to impose. National P is to mitigate this outbreak close schools and ten. No no more than ten in gathering. Y'All stay six feet apart Stay at home But but on the way back from India Dr Trump was flying back on air. Force One doctor. Nancy Massani the director of national the National Center for Communication for immunization and respiratory diseases publicly issued her blunt. Warning if you remember this morning without consulting the White House she just went ahead and out with it and that tanked the stock market which pissed trump off so he cancelled his meetings with Dr Cobbler. Who was also part of the Red Dawn Group and and he did not succumb to pressure to institute social distancing guidelines until three weeks later and during those three weeks. February sixteenth Or Twenty seven to March sixteenth. The virus was allowed to sweep across the country fairly unchecked Then there's the China factor trump didn't want to upset China and a lot of people who were to him with this problem about this virus. That could be you know. Have an issue are China Hawks And so of course there was also a situation room meeting Which we've talked about before where trump asked fallacy. Why not just let this wash over the country? Just the herd immunity just let everybody get it and apparently according to New York Times here took Thoug- a minute to figure out what trump was saying because it's so unbelievable. And when he did he was very alarmed and he told the president. We can't let it wash over the country. Many will die According to the models that they had two point two to four million people If you just let it do its thing And The New York Times quote closes with this quote saying the chaotic culture of the trump White House contributed to the crisis a lack of planning and a failure to execute combined with the president's focus on the new cycle and his preference for following his gut rather than the data cost time and perhaps lives. I really recommend you check out reading the Red Dawn emails New York Times published. All of them. I believe they don't have a paywall for any corona virus news so you should check that out and now from raw story. Labor Secretary Eugene. Scalia is implementation of the Kroger Stimulus. Package is coming under fire from Democratic lawmakers who say his handling of the new law favors corporations and leaves workers working folks behind Scalia son of the late Justice Antonin. Scalia has used the department's authority to limit who qualifies for Joblessness Assistance. And to make it easier for small businesses not to pay family leave benefits. Lawmakers have voiced concerns that the Labor Department's lack of urgency makes it more difficult for gig workers to get benefits and Scalia says quote. He's not he doesn't make any. He has no qualms about being an asshole. He says unemployment is not the preferred outcome when government stay at home mortars forced temporary business shutdowns. We want workers to have to work not to become dependent on the employment system. So He's coming under a lot of fire for for his handling of this and rightfully so and the numbers today In the virus epidemic. Show over one point. Eight million infected globally with over one hundred thirteen thousand deaths in the United States. We have five hundred thirty two thousand a little more than five hundred thirty two thousand cases and twenty one thousand seven hundred deaths almost seven thousand in New York alone and if that weren't enough Other news going around the Happening around the globe right now. Krakatoa erupted And the turnover. Forest fires are burning out of Control Radioactive Fires. And if you WANNA get Biblical. There's apparently a swarm of locusts threatening millions in Africa. Which is going to be ten times worse. Projected to be ten times worse than the last swarm that's diabolical and horrible and then we're dealing with all of this on of on top of this global global pandemic and from the Associated Press. I found this really helpful. It's called a week of false news about corona virus and it's a roundup of the most popular but completely untrue stories about the corona virus pandemic. The FIRST CLAIM TONIC. Water or Quinine supplements can be used to prevent and treat corona virus. Actually medical experts say as of now. There is no proven medication or home remedy that can cure corona virus facebook posting drinking. Show Schweppes Tonic. Water will work because it contains quinine. Quinine can be used to treat malaria. Malaria drugs like hydroxy. Chloroquine are the synthetic form of Quinine. So people are saying drink tonic. Water doctors say you can make a nice gin and tonic with it. But it's not gonNA help. It's not going to do anything next. People are sharing maps showing a correlation between Cova nineteen and locations. Were Five G. has been installed There's no evidence to five. G. Is at all related to the corona virus. There's no truth to it it's stupid. Don't just ignore that Next President Obama. Here's here's the lie. Here people are saying people are spreading. This thing around saying Obama is saying he would not allow white people to kill Africans with their toxic vaccines. This fabricated claim shared across social media. Grew out of a French TV segment where to doctor suggested that to burqas vaccine be tested in Africa in trials to fight the corona virus. The doctors were accused of racism for the comments. They made on the French news channel. Lci earlier this month with celebrities like soccer star Ddr Drogba and actor. John Boyega sharing their outrage on twitter after a video with the doctors comment circulated online Dr Matt Match Match at Iseo Mody. The World Health Organization's regional director on Africa also shared a clip of the doctors on twitter calling video deeply upsetting quote all research including uncovered nineteen in this global crisis must be ethical and based on principles. She said The French National Institute of Health and Medical Research tweeted April. Second that That the edited video had been taken out of context. Shortly after the video emerged online though social media users began sharing post suggesting Obama had asked Africans not to accept vaccines from American from America and Europe and urged people to share the message widely quoted Obama falsely saying. I'll be an accomplice if I don't denounce this. Evil Act white people. Want to do to Africans I of I was born in America but I am a African blood. I'm not going to allow white people to kill Africans with their toxic vaccines and that is just completely false. Post Obama never said that Another claim a false claim going at Walmart has adopted staggered shopping. Schedules based on age Monday age sixty six and up Tuesday fifty six to sixty five Wednesday forty six to fifty five Thursday etc. This is totally false. They do have special Hours to cater to seniors Who experts have said could be more vulnerable to corona virus but a post circulating facebook features logos for Walmart and Sam's Club and falsely states that the discount retailers establishing shopping days based on age groups. The Post apologize for any inconvenience before breaking out what age groups can shop which I just sort of went over with you and Sunday. Shopping is for emergency only anyway. That whole thing is fake. That is not happening. Another five G. conspiracy theory making around says that it kills birds and a set of photos a circulating on facebook to show dozens of dead birds scattered in the streets and sidewalks And falsely described The photo is showing the effects of electromagnetic radiation. Can you imagine what five G. will do us? It says The photos date February fourth when a strong wind knocked over a tree In Rome according to Italian media outlets when the tree fell over man was injured and several birds that had made their nests in. The tree were killed. Photos and video published of the time showed the fallen tree next to dozens of dead birds. Saying look if if this electro-magnetic radiation can do two birds what will five g to us so those are the BS conspiracy theory stores for the week. Thank you to Associated Press for rounding them all up. We'll be right back after this quick break with Jon. Cryer to discuss saving the post office. Stay around these. Mri will be big. 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Hey everybody welcome back and I'm excited about this joining us today for the interview. He plays lex Luther on supergirl on the C. Dubs and he was of course in two and a half men. And if you know our audience if I know our audience which I think I do. You'll also know him as duckie from pretty in pink and Maxwell Hauser from hiding out. Please welcome John John. Cryer John Thanks for speaking with me today. So happy to be here almost caught you choir Jonquiere. Yeah well you know a we I when I introduce myself earlier. I was a singing but I won't do that now because I think people have had a rough week. That's very kind. I thought you had a fantastic voice. That's just me I wanted to talk to you about the upcoming elections and how this administration is just basically out to steal it. Because you know you're not a Super William but you play one on TV and I thought you might have some relevant input here. Of course we know about vast voter suppression gerrymandering ridiculous voter. Id laws designed to limit. The number of voters and disenfranchised those who typically vote blew the only way that the Republicans can win and trump admitted that during one of his press conferences. And then of course we have Russian interference. We have the Ukraine scandal to get dirt on Joe Biden. But this week we learned about another extraordinary step to block access to voting. And that's the Republicans including Mitch. Mcconnell are refusing to rescue the post office which is set to become insolvent in June. And this is while. Democrats are pushing for vote by mail amidst the corona virus outbreak. I wanted your take on that. What's happening with the post office? Well it's interesting 'cause it it it it actually Corresponds to a bunch of GOP goals. You know they. I mean they're they're vast overarching goal Besides creating a corrupt kleptocracy is appears to be the privatization of the postal service. They've been wanting to do that for decades. In fact My understanding of when they they they they enforced a they actually The outgoing congress was it two thousand in sick. No it wasn't I don't remember when it was exactly but they Change the pension vesting rules for for the post office Making it basically impossible for the post office to run at a profit. They were already in trouble but they by requiring them to fund their pensions for another fifty years. They were trying to bring about privatization Supposedly not do you recall this. Yeah I one hundred percent recall this. That pretty much made them. They were set to because of that decision. They had been set to run out of money a few times and and they were. I think they were going to be solving until twenty. Twenty one until corona virus hit. Yeah and so. Obviously male has dropped precipitously. Businesses can't afford to advertise in. Send out all those mailers that you love so much getting in the mail But this this whole push seems to dovetail with a bunch of things that the GOP wants You know ended and it dovetails with what trump wants as well You know he's had his had a bug up his but Amazon Amazon's deal with the post office for a long time because the post office does two things for Amazon The Post Office Has their their latte what they call their last mile service which is which means that. They serve as rural areas. That Amazon won't go because they're just too far At the post office required to to service those areas so they do so for Amazon And they charge them normal. Postal rates for that And trump has a longtime been saying that the post office would be solvent if they would charge much higher rates to do that But my understanding is that. That's not actually the case That The post office actually has excess capacity anyway And that chart that changing their rates with that wouldn't necessarily make them they still have to pay those those expenses so it wouldn't actually change things for them is my understanding. Yeah I remember The report came out Where had pressured the postmaster general to like double the shipping rates on on? Betas on Amazon. Because you know I mean he also owns the Washington Post which is not trumps favorite thing and that to me with was an impeachable offense. I mean we remember Nixon. Mobilized weaponized the IRS to go after and do audits on his Democratic opponents This was no different. It was an abusive power to try to pressure the postmaster general to do that. So he's he's been mad about them for a while and then there's there's the overall effort of You know trying to cut down on the reporting of the census which is a A. Which is we're in the midst of going out and that that certainly with a pandemic raging mail in balloting is going to be much more attractive to people in general than Than not showing up in person so so again this this stuff tells with a lot of goals for them but it's hard to pick out one because it's three There's so many yeah I have to go with the vote by mail thing. I know that they're very against that. Trump brought up in a press conference that if we vote by mail. Republicans will never win again And he's right and so now he's on. He's on this marketing goal of convincing Americans that when you vote by mail it increases the likelihood of fraud which has not been proven at all in states. That have nothing but mail in ballots. We just had the Alaska primary yesterday. total mail in. Vote there But I I think this is really aimed at at vote by mail. We saw what happened in Wisconsin with the State Supreme Court in the in the conservative Supreme Court ruling that Wisconsin is had to vote in person putting their lives at risk and I'm afraid of trump reopened the country before we have a mass testing program in place which he doesn't even seem to understand the question. When asked about that. I think we could see a second wave And it could hit in November and we have to vote then your now I have to say. I'm a little mystified about their intimacy toward male voting. Mail in voting. Because yes he said that but it would seem to me that there's a lot of natural constituencies four mail in voting that would favor. Republicans like the military like older people. A Lotta people already use mail in voting it seems like would favor. Republicans to me. I'm being my nuts. We'll trump himself mail in voted in two thousand eight at. Because you know he's like look I live here. I'm the president. I can't go to and vote and the we were trying to tell them Wisconsin. I can't go to the polls to vote either because they will die. If you know so I'm not sure like why your excuse you know. Your absentee excuse is is You know more important than in the lives of Wisconsin nights or anybody else who's going to have to vote eventually But yeah he voted by mail himself. So it's just it seems very odd. You're right That that it would get more Republican votes. But I think he knows I think he knows the writings on the wall. The more people that can vote the less likely. Republicans are to win. That seems to have been demographically shown over and over and over. Yeah yeah I I still you know. I'm still curious about you. Know the the for a lot of For a long time people have been proposing that the postal service could actually become profitable if it did if it got into other areas like postal banking And the post office by the way already contracts itself out to Amazon As a as a delivery service they they You know a lot of time if you've gotten a package on Sunday it's because of a US postal person did it delivered it for you so So again it would seem like this just seems like a huge loser for Republicans in many respects because You know but the postal service is one of the most popular government services that the. Us government has Yeah it's also enshrined in the Constitution Article. One Section Eight club seven is the postal clause empowers Congress to establish post offices and roads so that they can be supposed to post can be delivered. So I'm confused as how Republicans are going to ignore that bit. They seem to waive the constitution around when it benefits them and ignore it when it doesn't so it'll be interesting to see how that fight goes. I. I'm mystified Mystified just yes. I get it The the the GOP has been horrendous on a bunch of issues. This is seems like also a political loser for them. Because I feel like it's GonNa hit their constituents in a way that they're really gonNA notice you know An and it would seem like it. It just seems like this just seems nuts to me. Yeah and I'm also concerned about how you know. Privatization of the post office could impact. You know this administration tends to project. They tend to blame others for that which they are guilty. And if there's any voter fraud I could see there. Being a potential for voter fraud with privatization in favor of the Republicans. But nothing else really. Yeah and and and we forget that the post office is this. Is this cultural unifier for the entire United States? You know it's it's really a it means a lot to people who your postman. You know your postman you know. Everybody knows that. The people that deliver their mail. They've seen them you know. This is a huge workforce by the way that we're talking about possibly getting a unemployed during a pandemic You know I just feel like this is a third rail for the Republicans and I don't know why even considering it while they've been successful at this kind of stuff in the past. I mean he managed to get his base to to hate war. Heroes like John McCain so I don't see there being a problem with him being able to flip his base on something like the post office they'll be people like yeah f the Post Office Bunch assholes and you'd be like what the post office and one of my main concerns is that Democrats are going to demand money for the post office. They're working on a second stimulus package. And they're gonNA demand vote by mail funding. Which because they did that in the first one. But that was a nonstarter for Republicans and I think. Republicans aren't going to budge on this and then of course just as they did with the. I still blame. Democrats for holding additional stimulus money hostage when it was actually the Republicans that kept the stimulus money low in the first package that you know. They limited the amounts. Everybody gotten the first package. And I'm pretty optimistic as as a person but this seems highly problematic politically for Democrats. I'm not sure how they get around it. I'm not either it's I it does feel like people because they're stuck at home At least on social media they seem to be paying attention so that's that's nice and And and there's been interesting of pulling effects to like Usually the rally round the flag aspect of pulling is incredibly powerful. When there's something when there's a national crisis like this and this is by the way national crisis that is unparalleled in you know in in my life I have not been a you know. I'm trying to think of a national crisis that that came as close and had this much effect on my day to day living. And I I can't think of one right away you know and you know so. I I but interestingly trump got he got a rally rally around the flag bump for a very short period of time and it appears to almost completely dissipated at this point which is which is fascinates me. 'cause that's you know. America when we feel we're in crisis tends to rally around its leader very powerfully and that is not occurring. Yeah I think Bush's popularity rating or approval rating. Went up to like eighty percent or something after after nine eleven and and I mean just unprecedented numbers. I think he peaked at fifty or fifty five and now he's back down in the forties. Yeah so yeah So it does seem like people are paying attention to some degree And you know I it's a you know. And the fact that the administration seems to have no plan for going forward. I mean this has been driving me crazy. It's like even if even if you say you're GONNA claim you know. We weren't flat-footed we we. We had a travel ban on China. Even that's now appearing to have been a largely ineffective he. Can you know you can always argue that? In hindsight we screwed up. But you know we. We given the information we had. We did the best we could. You can always make that but not having a plan. Going forward is inexcusable. Or or saying. Oh Ivanka's GonNa come up with something. No Ivanka I for some reason. The the knockoff handbag lady You know as God lover for a for making a living doing that. I don't believe is going to be doing a great job with it. I don't think her or her husband. Have the answers that we need? So it'll be interesting to see what happens there but yeah this is. This is a crisis of proportions that I think a lot of us can even fathom right now because we're in it but you know I am. I'm very concerned about about how we're going to vote how we're going to vote in this election and I'm interested to see With a little bit of worry and a sort of a you know a dash of anxiety In their how how it all plays out. Yeah it'll be very interesting to see how further primaries happen. How what what's the next one. Do you know what the next primary no I think. They all got pushed back to June nine. June twenty third I. New York's June twenty third We had you know Wisconsin. Obviously and we're waiting for results. Were supposed to get those tomorrow in an Alaska. The results came in today and that was but they were all vote by mail. And that was I think. Fifty five to forty four something like that. And I haven't seen any returns on the Wisconsin Debacle have we heard how to what extent a voter voting went down. The I haven't even seen any exit. Polls or turn outnumbers for Wisconsin. I haven't seen any results and I you know I keep paying the page but everything seems to like. It's going to be coming out tomorrow but I. I'm assuming that there weren't any exit polls done because people didn't want to risk contracting the virus who's going to answer them. I mean you're GONNA have to yell. Your answers in Fronton. I don't know how you were. I don't know how you do that. As a pollster. Yeah no one's going to be wanting to yell out. I voted for Marianne Williamson. Well thank you so much for helping parse this issue today tell everyone we went over this a little bit before we started recording where they can find supergirl right now. It's it's there's a couple of different places most complicated as a voting time It is the CW APP which is free an awesome. You can watch the last five episodes of supergirl But if you want anything further back than that you streaming on Netflix and but that will only be for the next few months because then it's all going to go over to HBO. Max So all right so get it while it's hot You mentioned while you can And you can also follow John at At Mister Jon Cryer. No agent John on twitter. Thank you again for for speaking me today. I really appreciate it. You always a pleasure. All right stick around. We'll be right back with the good news right after this everybody would say gee this portion brought to you by human right. Now we're all living quarantine life. It can be hard to stay focused and productive not curl up into a ball and just snack the pandemic away which I can't have been doing. We've all got to keep fighting. We have to keep active. We have to keep our energy immune systems up. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about something. I take every day that helps me stay on top of my game called Super Grapes. Soft. Choose from human. They taste great. They make me feel more focused and energetic with less late afternoon. Lethargy Super Great Soft Chews or a delicious way to give you an energizing boost super grapes. Soft shoes are packed with heart. Health grape seed extracts that protect against oxidative stress. Which is a thing. Something that affects me impacts me negatively and it promotes normal blood pressure and also promotes energy efficiency by supporting blood flow. So there's no jittery feeling. No crashes just energy the way nature intended with antioxidants derived from non GMO concentrated clinically studied. Grape seed extract experienced the great tasting healthy boost from new supergroup soft. Jus Get your super grapes off Jews at super grapes dot com slash daily beans and get a free thirty day supply with your first purchase. This offer is only available here for our listeners. That's super grapes. Dot Com slash daily beans? Again SUPER GRAPES DOT com slash beans. Hey everybody welcome back. It is time for the good news all right so I've got. There's actually a lot of good news that happened over the weekend. I mean there was a lot about news but there was a lot of good news. First of all prosecutors in Los Angeles have leveled another sexual assault charge against imprisoned former movie mogul Harvey Weinstein It's a charge of sexual battery by restraint. And it stems from an alleged incident at the Beverly Hills Hotel and may twenty ten and that's according to the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office Weinstein. Who's already serving twenty three years in prison in New York after being convicted of committing criminal? Sex Act in the first degree and raped third. Degree was already facing four felony charges in Los Angeles including forcible Rape Sexual Penetration by use of force sexual battery and forcible oral copulation. Weinstein has denied the allegations. No and you don't hand yeah And the Kansas Supreme Court has voted to uphold executive order by the state's Governor Kelley limiting the size of church gatherings on Easter Sunday ending. A dramatic legal clash in which the court was asked amid a global pandemic to decide between public health and religious liberty in a ruling issued on Saturday. The court said Democratic Governor Laura. Kelly was within her rights when she announced an order on Tuesday limiting religious gatherings in the state to ten people the ruling came after an extraordinary morning session in which the courts seven justices heard oral arguments via video conference in order to comply with social distance guidelines and a bipartisan Senate. Group has given trump until Monday. That's tomorrow to explain. His firing of the Intelligence Community Inspector General Atkinson. The group is led by Republican. Senator Chuck Grassley and His letter trump demanding answers was co-signed by Susan Collins. Mitt Romney among others and a bunch of Democrats including Mark Warner Eight Eight. Eight senators total So that's that's nice right. The Republicans are like you you. You can't just fire. The Inspector General that handed over the Ukraine whistleblower complaint. Yeah that without you know without giving some answers. Yeah that is nice and it does also make me wonder where that logic was before slash hill name. Something that could've been useful months ago as if now. They're just heating the warnings. Yeah and judge ruled this week. That metro-goldwyn-mayer has to hand over the UNAIRED footage from trump's celebrity apprentice to entrepreneurs who claim they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars after trump and his kids endorsed appear amid scheme on the reality show prior to the election. Us District Judge. Yeah Lorna Sheffield. She's a judge in the southern district of New York told Metro Goldwyn Mayer that they have. They have to make available hundreds of hours of recordings for these two episodes And it's the two episodes when principles of a pyramid scheme called. Acn Opportunity LLC Were guests on the show This is the same suit. I spoke recently with a Andrew Tours about where the judge disallowed arbitration for this case and it has to go through the courts so interesting It's only two episodes worth of tapes but they have to hand him over our be interesting to hear what he has to say behind the scenes. That scares me hell easy. It is for crazy people to get airtime. And then it's like no one ever follows up on anything. Same thing goes for new story sometimes to honestly and that more so goes relate local news. But if there's like once it's out there is just out there in if they actually dedicated time to circling back. Obviously they wouldn't do it in the apprentice but just in general like if that company was on I dunno fucking shark tank or something and then people went. They wouldn't come back into a message and correct the record. There's so many people out there that are just falsely endorsed in getting like sucked into shitty things. Yes it's pretty bad but I'm but that's good news. Yeah that's all good news a little some of it's a little shot and Freud e I mean it's not good news what Harvey Weinstein did. But it's good news that he's being charged in Los Angeles now in addition to the twenty three years in prison that he serving in New York. So you know the I again. I think that he's sort of the the lightning rod for justice for all of us who did not get justice for when we were assaulted. And I think that that's important All right well. What what Good news do we have from our listeners. Georgia yeah so we got a whole bunch. We didn't get any quarantine. Confessions in time for today show but We just want to send that call for those again. Please send in your quarantine. Confessions these can be. I mean they're meant to be light hearted obviously but unload on us why not. We're at at daily beans pod or you can email Amanda at Mueller. She wrote Dot Com or answer the posts on Patriots on if you are a patron So that will be four next episode but for now we have amazing good news from our listeners. I'll start out with a stephanie. Stephanie says my fiance and I have been dating long distance for the past year while I've been in graduate school but because of cove in nineteen we've been reunited April. Thirteenth will be the seventh anniversary of my okay. There's a trigger warning here. I'm sorry April thirteenth will be the seventh anniversary of my suicide attempt. And I'm so happy to be alive and able to spend this important day with the most important person in my life when I would have had to celebrated alone seven years ago. I learned that life is precious with the Cova death toll raising daily. That lesson rings true now more than ever. Thanks for all the beans. Keep up the good work. That's amazing thank you Stephanie. Yeah congratulations yeah. That's a huge congratulations. That's incredible Our our next our next piece of news comes from anonymous anonymous. I work in a large reference laboratory that serves hospitals all over the country. One of the tests I perform is for measuring Interleukin. Six and inflammatory chemical that is currently being monitored during treatment of severe cove in nineteen patients. I'm sure I pronounced that wrong Needless to say things are a bit stressful. Right now is our testing volumes have increased from about five hundred a week to over seven thousand. What I really wanted to mention is this. During the pandemic our clients have been sending US encouraging notes along with their patient samples. Saying things like your work is helping us save our patients. Thank you for your timeless effort or tireless effort also timeless Sometimes working in a lab where you are far removed from the frontlines. It's easy to forget your impact. After work I cried my car on the way home thinking about these messages and the people they represent. I am immensely proud of the laboratory professionals. I work with and the medical community as a whole thanks to those sending us these encouraging messages. I assure you they are appreciated by all of us. Well SO COOL. Awesome so seriously so bad. S so much bad ass. Work is being done right now in labs and everywhere our next one is from Jack. Jack says I finished the Bunny Day. Crafting Bullshit in animal. Crossing me too was a letdown. It just seems like a corporate scam to sell eggs personal it is. I'm so I feel like the people who haven't watched tagger King. I have no idea what the fuck is going on with animal crossing and need to get on. That shit is soon as soon as I can. Get in ten to switch or whatever Yeah someone said that you can like plan your phone to I don't know anyways from next from Glam You inspired me to join neum during this lockdown and I'm already down six pounds. It totally appeals to my check. The Box. Finish the assignment personality. So thank you for that. Also I haven't missed a single episode of msw or the daily beans. I listened in the mornings when I walk the dog and it is my coveted alone time for the day. You've definitely given me a wonderful space to feel understood. That is so cool. Oh well awesome. Congratulations yes yet. Numerously is cool and just in general just getting your body moving right now so important. I'm like my immune system is going fucking insane right now. Like in a bad way and definitely when I work out and eat well and just all the things that new teachers to do. Regardless of losing weight it helps. It helps so much. 'cause currently it's like. Oh God so many cylinders and our bodies are just like what the fuck is happening in. Your brain is like using anxiety so anything like that that just gets your brain and endorphins and all this other these other systems endocrine systems just off of stressing is super cool. So that's really awesome. Very glad that you're experiencing newman having fun with it next from Lisa. Homeschooling is working very well. For my fourteen year old daughter we are considering switching over once things go back to normal quote unquote she thrives on the one on one contact to an L. I read that rid she thrives on the one on one contact Dr she drives she thrives on low one on one contact and it had improved our relationship. It has improved our relationship which has been a surprise for both of us. That's Seagal love. What a cool unintended consequence right. Yes yeah it's very cool. Great hands out of that. Yeah Okay just a couple. More from jared. We are thankful for a joke. Gift Joke in quotes from my mother-in-law of Mini Ping Pong my wife and I can set it up and play ridiculous games a ping pong to keep our spirits up during quarantine and get a little exercise between eating and movie marathons James Bond Movies the West Wing and Star Trek. The next generation are the current viewing schedule. In case. You're wondering heck yes. Love that Mini Ping Pong so and also I saw imposes on their instagram story. A friend of mine from college. There's this thing where it's essentially ping pong but it's with soccer balls. Have you ever seen this in your in your like dribbling over a net? LemMe see is. It is so fricking crazy helicopter activity. Yes soccer meeting. It's not it's an indoor activity. Soccer meets table tennis. It's literally just like table tennis with a soccer ball. It's fucking crazy. It's called Tech Ball T. E. Q. V. A. L. L. You should definitely look up some videos of that shake has. It's very impressive. All right and finally yes from Laura I love you all. Thanks keeping going in spite of these really difficult times and thank you so much for the daily beans happy hours. I have some non cove in nineteen good news. If you're interested. I work in wildlife conservation specifically amphibians reptiles. My colleagues and I have accomplished incredible achievement of saving endangered slash rare frogs. That was picked up in the L. A. Times that I'd like to share headline in the La. Times is race to save rare California frog. Beats Corona Virus Lockdown Helje awesome? That's dope that is dope. That's so cool to look that up. Save the frogs safer. Frogs indeed I I used to collect frogs when I was kid like I. Actually I think they were toads. Not Frogs but You know that they not amphibious but I love frogs. Yeah Frogs and toads Melissa sent us According confession her teenagers asked her to pick up. Japodlay for dinner on the way home from work. She's snuck a chip hearing there and before she knew what she'd eating the whole bag stuffed the bag under the seat of her car and told them they must have forgotten the chips in the order. Oh my God I love that. I like how you didn't say I forgot to order the chips. You blame the fucking Shapur laypeople they. I ordered the chips children and they failed to put it in bags double whammy. That's also a total door dasher. Move that some shit I used to know. I know it's a horrible confession that I'm not proud of that. They're are definitely times where I would like would steal a French fry because I was starving in driving for twelve hours at a time. Jesus I know it was a grind with a college degree. Everybody God is dead guys. Let's just throw that in there on Easter. Technically story goes I have an anonymous. A confessional here to Someone wrote and said I'm a nurse practitioner in an ICU and my attending physician ripped a new one in front of a rather large portion of our medical team. Because she didn't like that. I was standing up for the nurses in a heated situation. Afterwards one of the nurses one of my favorite bedside nurses reminded me that the best part of wearing masks all day is you can mouth fuck you and eat shit without getting caught doing ever since and my God has. It made a difference in my day. Oh my God. That's so good. That fucking sucks. Though that had to go through that that's awesome. I liked that a lot. Yeah you can just make faces. I noticed when I went to like when I'm walking around outside You wouldn't I'm interacting with people the grocery store. I have my face mask on a but because I've had Bo Talks. I can't express anything with the top half of my face so the cashier will be telling me a story and I'll be thinking like I'm making a wo- like surprised is you know. And I'm not and so they just think I'm either an asshole or that there are very boring It's probably a combination. Yeah it's okay. You're in southern California. So I'm sure there's a lot of those situations. People are used to navigate just walking around expressionless mm-hmm. I want to feel I just can't well. Thanks everybody for those good news stories and and and you you already covered where to send them and we're going to see everybody on Friday but you know we've got a few shows a few daily shows between now and then and thanks so much to John Cryer for talking to us but he's my hero What a great guy Interest so kind of you know everyone's like don't meet your heroes unless it's Jon. Cryer of Jon Cryer zero. It's it's okay to meet I've I've just let you know. So that's it Any final thoughts Jordan before before we hang up If you would do me a solid and check out my podcast that have gone I disagree we are our last episode. We talk about Zoltan was on and he was actually born in Hungary so we talk about socialism versus capitalism. And some other fun stuff but it was. It was probably. It's when we've only had three episodes but I really enjoyed it and we're gonNA start talking about some current a virus stuff recording tonight. Actually so please check that out. I disagree and Yeah give us a follow on twitter. And if you WANNA check out on patriotic that would be fucking booking read awesome congratulations. It's such a good show. Thank you I appreciate that. It's really fun. It's a really nice little addition to the work that we do on here just to just to have a space where we don't have to like be smart all the time no pressure no smart pressure. exactly no smart pressure awesome. Yeah you're like we don't have corrections on our podcast there. You go eleven all right. Well everybody please take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Take the planet and take care of your mental health. I've been AG. I've been Jordan Coburn and them's the beans. The daily beans is executive produced and directed by AG and Jordan Coburn an engineered edited by Mackenzie Mozelle and starbucks industries are marketing manager. Executive assistant production. Social Media Directions Amanda Reader Fact Checking Research by AG Jordan Coburn Amanda Reader. Our music is written and performed by. They might be giants. Are Web design and branding or by Joel reader with moxy design studios and our website is daily beans pod dot com.
Coronavirus news, updates, hotspots and information for 04-12-2020 COVID-19 AM Alert
"This is corona virus. Four one one. The latest Cova Nineteen Info and hot spots for Sunday April. Twelve Twenty Twenty Wyoming Disaster Declaration has been approved making this the first time in history that every state and territory in the US is under a disaster declaration with over twenty thousand coping nineteen related fatalities. The US has passed Italy for most deaths more than three hundred inmates and two hundred employees at Chicago's Cook County. Jail have tested positive for the virus on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. Five Hundred Fifty. Hip tested positive. The Kansas Supreme Court upheld the governor's ban on gatherings of ten or more people this will affect religious gatherings in the State. South Korea will test all travelers from the US for Corona virus upon arrival in the country British. Prime Minister Boris. Johnson has been released from the hospital. Russia and Japan confirmed their largest number of New Delhi cases. Venezuela will extend the national state of alarm for thirty days. Saudi Arabia has indefinitely extended. The nationwide curfew. Singapore's mandating the use of face masks. Well in public Spain will begin to loosen some of the most aggressive restrictions on residents movements this week from a nearly empty Saint Peter's basilica the pope celebrated Easter mass stating. This is not the time for indifference because the whole world is suffering and needs to be united in facing the pandemic the locations of hot spots and US and country diagnoses in a moment hot spots in the US displaying faster rates of growth as of April eleventh. According to The New York Times Rhode Island Guam South Dakota Randolph. County Georgia Louisa County Iowa Globally Bellarusse and Bangladesh have a faster rate of growth. There have been five hundred. Thirty thousand six confirmed cases of Cova nineteen in the United States and twenty thousand six hundred eight deaths known active locations with thirty five hundred or more cases. New York one hundred eighty thousand four hundred fifty eight New Jersey fifty eight thousand one hundred fifty one Michigan Twenty three thousand eight Hundred Fifty Three Massachusetts twenty two thousand eight Hundred Sixty California twenty two thousand four hundred twenty one Pennsylvania. Twenty one thousand seven Hundred Seventy Four Louisiana Twenty Thousand Fourteen Illinois Nineteen Thousand. One Hundred Eighty Florida eighteen thousand nine hundred seventy eight Texas Fourteen Thousand Eight Hundred Twenty seven Georgia twelve thousand two hundred sixty one connecticut eleven thousand five hundred ten Washington. Ten Thousand Two hundred twenty four Maryland. Seventy six ninety four Indiana seventy four three five Colorado Sixty eight ninety three Ohio sixty to fifty Virginia fifty seventy seven Tennessee forty nine eighty three North Carolina forty-three ten Missouri Forty Twenty four countries with four thousand or more cases Spain. One hundred sixty six thousand nineteen Italy one hundred fifty two thousand two hundred seventy one France. One hundred thirty thousand seven hundred thirty. Germany one hundred twenty five thousand four hundred fifty to China. Eighty three thousand one hundred thirty four United Kingdom seventy nine thousand eight hundred eighty five Iran. Seventy one thousand six hundred eighty six. Turkey fifty two thousand one hundred sixty seven Belgium twenty nine thousand six hundred forty seven Netherlands. Twenty five thousand seven hundred forty six Switzerland Twenty Five Thousand Three Hundred Canada twenty three thousand three hundred sixteen Brazil. Twenty thousand nine hundred eighty four Portugal. Sixteen thousand five hundred eighty five Russia. Fifteen thousand seven hundred Seventy Austria. Thirteen thousand nine hundred forty five. Israel. Ten Thousand Eight hundred seventy eight South Korea ten thousand five hundred twelve Sweden ten thousand four hundred eighty three Ireland eighty nine twenty eight India eighty five. Oh four Ecuador seventy to fifty seven chalet sixty nine twenty seven Peru sixty eight forty eight Japan sixty seven forty eight Norway sixty four fifty nine Denmark sixty three sixty nine Poland sixty three fifty six Australia. Sixty three fifteen Romania sixty three hundred Czech Republic fifty nine five Pakistan fifty one seventy Malaysia. Forty six eighty three Philippines forty-six forty-eight Saudi Arabia forty four sixty to Indonesia forty-two forty-one Mexico forty two nineteen no first cases reported in the last twenty four hours for the latest updates subscribe for free to corona virus. Four one one on your podcast APP or esque or Smart Speaker to play the corona virus. Four one one podcast.
OA276: Did Kansas Really Show Us The Way Forward on Abortion Rights?
"So I hold myself in contempt. If you try to pull me up here to court without attorney. The questions carjack Willie objection. I'm gonna lower Gerke Rogers that offenders carjacker. You didn't kill Thompson. But you did Mr.. Well. County. Water. Order quo is out of order. Welcome to opening arguments. The podcast that pairs inquisitive interviewer with the real life. Lawyer this podcast is sponsored by the law offices of p Andrew Torres LLC for entertainment purposes, is not intended as legal advice does not form attorney client relationship. Don't take legal advice from a podcast. Opening arguments two hundred and seventy six and that means that you find folks just heard a new intro. How about that Matt grinding related quote as we say every time. I hope my clip from soap made it into the intro. So we'll see we'll see. No special polar around it. You know, just like you don't help me with the bar exam. I don't help you find better. I don't tip the scales in favor of your your quotes for the intro. So we'll see got to earn it on its own merit. Andrew takes the intro quotes exempt. All right, but that's awesome. I love I love the intro quotes. They're always fun. But we get to have a nice depressing episode today. I think is that right? No, this is a super positive encouraging episode. I mean, not counting. What I'm gonna talk about in the in the pre show. But, but no, this is a really really good episode while that's interesting because in the words of the title, I'm seeing over overturning Roe v. Wade. So I'm I can't wait to hear how this is a positive episode, but you'll forgive my worry. I guess I will. Okay. All right. Well, turns out there you go. We're going to talk about that. We're gonna desktop field. Are you a cop segment that'll be fun? We'll talk about corporations being people. We're going to talk about this Kansas abortion decision which apparent again. I've got a hold. Andrew Tuiti says this is a not not a depressing upsets. Going to put myself out there. Subject myself to this row v. Wade related episode that Andrew says isn't depressing in this day and age, I don't know how but we'll see. And then we got another listener question. And I'm excited for that. It's our listeners asked the best questions. They're always interesting. And this one is about the descent from the same case, we're going to discuss in the main segment, so that's our agenda, but you have a little pre show segment here. What he got for us. Yeah. In two fifty nine. We broke down the Jeffrey Epstein plea deal in Florida. And the fact that that case was reopened after eight years of litigation by plaintiffs. The federal government has been given an extension at that. This point in time that runs until this Friday may the tenth. So you won't get it on this up. Assode you won't get it on Friday's episode because it will come out after we record. But you will hear news stories at the end of the week because that is the deadline for the government to submit how what what it thinks the remedy should be in. The Epstein case for the prosecutors violation of the victim's Rights Act with respect to Jefferson's victims. Right. We pointed out that lots of media outlets were reporting. This as Epstein's plea deal was going to be torn up. And and that's not the case that that certainly is among the possible items that it's possible course. But I'm not sure that I would intimidate that. That's what that's the position government's gonna come up with whatever they do. We will cover it on the show. We will update you. But but you're going to see those stories at the end of the week. So we wanted to flag those for you now. Right. I'll be curious to hear what goes on there. But let's get to our listener question in. Are you a Cup format? If you ask a coffees a cop? He's like obligated to tell you it's in the constitution. So she go ahead and ask you. Okay. So Ralph Dietrich asks if the Scotus has decided that corporations are people why can't Eddie Lampert be tried for murder or attempted murder. If the fact pattern you followed on OA to seventy three is proven true. If you a ninety five year old man who is ill. And I killed you, regardless of your condition or realistic time left. I would still be a murderer. So yeah, I mean corporations aren't people in that sense. But I'm sure you'll put a lot more into that. So have at it. I I absolutely I love the grammar of the question, and at at I like, the kind of cheeky idea of hey, you know, you've been saying corporations people. So while if you've murdered Sears, why haven't you murdered a person and at at Thomas as as you point out? That that top line. This is we've actually discussed the history of the supreme court's rulings on this way back in one fifty five. So I recommend pulling that one out of the archives where where we talk about all of it. But but the the bottom line is there is no one supreme court decision. That says corporations are people, my friend. What what what there is is in the law? Corporations are a form of person, but different laws refer to different kinds of people and can refer to it in different ways. Right. And so what corporations enjoy are a bundle of rights some of which are associated with person hood. And but not right. The entirety of the of those rights. And and even I mean what has. Made the recent corporate decisions that you're likely thinking of right things like citizens United or things like trinity Lutheran. What has made those decisions pernicious is they are not grounded in the idea that like, oh, people have these rights and corporations are people therefore corporations have these rights. But but rather cases, and I should I I should throw in hobby lobby, right? In those cases, it's actually far worse than you're suggesting right in in the hobby lobby versus Burwell decision. The the holding of the case was not hobby lobby's, a corporation corporations are people therefore because people have religious the holding was no hobby lobby has sincerely held religious beliefs that is novel unprecedented. And you know, I believe that a future supreme court when I am a. Cyborg will look back at this era in time and go. Yeah. That was just invented out of whole cloth. Corporations. Obviously don't have religious beliefs. Their profit centers similarly in trinity Lutheran the majority we've we've mentioned this at at at some length. The majority says, you know, a church shouldn't have to choose between. It's, you know, religious beliefs and competing for government grants, and and again churches don't have rights under the first amendment, right? It is the first amendment is designed to protect religious believers, and despite the fact that I'm eight Theus year Navias like I will go to the mat. I'm a member of the ACLU, which has done more to defend religious liberties in this country than any other organization. I will go to the mat to defend your individual religious liberties as a believer. Where that decision goes off the. Rails is in describing rights to trinity Lutheran as an entity. So I like the question I wanted to point out number one. We've done the full history number two corporations. Aren't you know, full people they aren't co extensive with the rights that adult persons have that adult real persons have. Although we all stuck about on away to thirty six, for example, the corporations can be pardoned. I guess that's a little bit of spoiler. If you hadn't heard that that thirty six so they do enjoy some rights, but what the supreme court doing what the supreme court is doing right now is even more pernicious and even more dangerous than you think. So guess I'm off to a good start with this being an upbeat episode. Yeah. That this is this is very cute. But like we have laws about fraud and stuff that should cover that. Like, it doesn't need to be the murder of a corporation as a person it should just be able to be fraud. And like you can't engage in fraud. I want to be able to voluntarily dissolve a corporation right before. Like without without getting Kevorkian on the line is. Like do this voluntarily dissolve a person. Like, I'm getting a lot more acid here. That works to. Okay. I was. Yeah. Either way works on both levels. Yeah. So yeah, you have to call in. I was thinking like you have to call in cavort to come in the dead of night to like sign the papers to get you to get rid of the corporation dissolve the corporation that way because it's it's euthanasia. It's not allowed. Alright. So great question that was fun, but corporations are people in some senses, my friend, but not in every sense, basically and extra getting extra bonus special rights from a supreme court that is taking rights away from everybody else. So. No, right. Well, good start on your not depressing episode. Andrew. For racing. Of course, they are everything. Corporations earn goes to people. Here we go continue the streak of somehow making this not depressing by talking about this Kansas abortion decision. Okay. So let's get the depressing stuff out of the way, I on abortion, and and and I want I mean, we had some fun in the first segment this is deadly serious. Obviously at as we are recording this episode. The Alabama house has passed Bill three fourteen the Alabama Senate is likely to follow suit, and the Alabama governor is likely to sign the Bill into law. This will criminalize abortion in the state of Alabama. The except for. As necessary to preserve the life of the mother. There is no exception for rape or incest. That's. The way it's written it. It will make performing an abortion a class a felony in the state of Alabama with a maximum prison sentence of ninety nine years attempted abortion is defined as a class sif Elanie up to ten years in prison. I could go through the the full definition this Bill passed seventy four to three in the Alabama house. The reason it passed seventy four to three is because the Democrats in the Alabama house of representatives walked out in protest rather than vote on this blatantly obviously unconstitutional Bill, so what is going to happen? This Bill is going to pass it will be signed into law by the governor before it can take effect. It will immediately be the subject of a lawsuit that lawsuit. Will result in the law being stayed because even in Alabama a federal district court judge is going to be bound by the obvious precedent in a row v. Wade and Planned Parenthood versus Casey. And so the judge may say, well, you know, if Roe v Wade were overturned this law is fine. But since it isn't I have to follow precedent clearly have a likelihood of success on the merits, and it would clearly 'cause reparable harm. So I'm going to enjoin the law that will then get appealed to the fifth circuit. Again. Even though the fifth circuit is a conservative circuit, the fifth circuit absolutely is going to uphold that injunction and from there. It will go to the supreme court from their that decision at the district court level in Alabama will be appealed to the eleventh circuit the eleventh, circuit is a conservative. Court. But again elicit completely goes off the rails. And and I don't think that weapon the eleventh circuit is going to affirm the issuance of the injunction because it too is required to follow precedent. And then that will get appealed to the supreme court, and that is the gold here. The only reason to pass this law is as a vehicle to challenge a woman's right to choose before the supreme court, and when it gets to the supreme court there are two options option number one is that chief Justice John Roberts joins the howler monkey contingent and overrules rove e Wade Planned Parenthood versus Casey, I I think that that is a likely that their large sheaf of outcomes in which that can happen institutional thesis, in my view may almost be worse. Right. I said I think that this is where we're likely to go. I I know that John Roberts would like to be known in history, as you know, the judge who, you know, despite his personal opposition managed to forge a consensus and save Roe v. Wade and what and you know, what he will do is offer the supreme court's liberal wing, the sane justices on the supreme court say, hey, look, if you let me write the majority opinion and you join with it. I'm going to write a version of Casey, I'm going to reaffirm that that abortion is a right that is protected in the constitution. But I'm gonna further narrow it. And and further gut the already weak protections that exist in Casey, by the way, episodes twenty eight and twenty nine we go through what exactly happened in plain parenthood for sketchy. So check those out and to me, the really really interesting things behind the scenes are going to be what the supreme court's wing does in in response to to those overtures, right? Whether they are willing to sign on 'cause so then you will either get a five four opinion overturning Roe v. Wade or you will get a five four decision. The other way with probably four separate concurrence is from the liberal justices issuing the whatever test is concocted by John Roberts that is going to be sort of even more narrow than the undue burden test that that Planned Parenthood vk came up with either way, it's it's going to be a bad day for for for women in this country. And and I've become more pessimistic. That that whatever that opinion looks like is is going to be bad. So why is today a good day because this Kansas decision illustrates, I think the way in which we need to work moving forward in the way in which we need to think about instruct constructing our arguments, if you take as a proposition as I do that the supreme court may be lost for thirty years. Right. If the supreme court is an instrument of regression, then your recourse, even if you live in a state like Kansas over the next thirty years on questions of fundamental rights is going to be in the state supreme court, and that brings us to holds and now's versus Schmidt a six one opinion by the Kansas state supreme court ruling that abortion is a fundamental. Oh, right protected in the Kansas constitution and protected above and beyond independently of the protection found in the US constitution. This is a really really good opinion. It really deserves our attention, and it is part of kind of the the way forward. And and so so I wanna talk about it. But. But there is that is that sufficiently uplifting or did I not do at all. Let's see when does the uplifting part start. So here's the uplifting part for a very very long time. And by the way, this is another follow on to an episode. We did over a year ago away one ninety in which we talked about a similar decision coming out of the Iowa supreme court again, you know, these are red flyover states right to Iowa's less conservative than Kansas. But, you know, neither one is, you know, Bernie country, and in Iowa the supreme court struck down a a law that would have required a three day waiting period, plus a medically unnecessary ultrasound. Plus, a whole bunch of information rang all of these kinds of barriers in the way of of a woman seeking an abortion in Iowa. And what was interesting in that case. Was for the same reason that this is an interesting decision. The Iowa supreme court said, yes, if we were just analyzing this under Planned Parenthood versus Casey if we were looking at this under the federal undue burden test this law would probably pass muster. But the Iowa constitution offers more protection than that. And so the law is unconstitutional under the Iowa constitution. And that's exactly what the Kansas supreme court said here. And that's why this is a really really interesting decision. So so what does it say, I want you to if you're you know, reading this case, and this case is one hundred ninety pages long. But don't worry the the majority opinion is only eighty six pages long. So that's you know, you can you can curl on page three and a half of the of the Miller report. Take me a minute. So I let me talk about why this is an important strategy. Right. Because. Being active and understanding what your state supreme court is doing is when it comes to individual rights, really a no risk strategy. We've talked about this before, but a state supreme court cannot restrict your rights blow the federal US constitutional baseline, right? So if you have constitutional as of for example, right like, the the supreme court of California couldn't decide like, hey, you know, what like we're going to get rid of the New York Times v Sullivan standard. And you know, we're going to grossly curtail the right to freedom of expression and allow people to sue you for libel. Even if your, you know, a newspaper printing stories about a public figure, right? It wouldn't matter. What the the California state constitution says because you'd have a federal first amendment, right? That would Trump that right? But but states can go beyond. Donned those bare minimum protections. Exactly. Like I did. And exactly what Kansas did here. And there is no doubt in my mind. When you read this opinion, their efforts to divorce their ruling from the US constitution, our design are are are one hundred percent in mind of the fact that the US supreme court is staffed with right wing judicial activists. And and this is really an important trend that that I'm starting to notice, and that is lots of these courts that have very very conservative justices on them. Nevertheless, have what I would consider more traditional conservative justices. Right. That is justices who care about precedent who, you know, have a philosophy of you know, limited government. And non-intervention, and maybe you're pro business, but, but but do not share the sort of wholesale regressive activism that is being championed by the federal society right now. And the federalist society has been very very successful in getting Donald Trump to pack. The federal judiciary with mindless I'd hill hutch drones. But in kits. Sepah -ssarily. Well, that's nice. I mean that that's that's cool. I remember you talking about this. What you said it was about a year ago. Ten flies. That was really cool. Like this one. We are trick to protect abortion rights at least by state, but I'm still worried. Do you think we are going to get to the point? I think I might ask you something similar last year. Can't are we going to get some BS conservative judicial activist decision that rephrase is the right in terms of like the is right to life. And so therefore, the federal protection is actually more strict because it's you know, it's giving the fetus more rights, and so therefore the state can't take away those rights. Are we going to get something like that? Should I even be quiet right now? So they don't figure that out to do that. Because I'm already scared that they're going to do that. Look that is a possibility if there is a fifth howler monkey judge that has added to the supreme court. So yes, but I will point out that every time every effort, and you know, sort of too much for a for a sidebar here any effort to vest, a fetus with rights is going to be immediately problematic and unworkable, and I think right. There's no way that John Roberts is going to sign onto a, you know, a fetus has more rights than a seventeen year old for example. Right. We've talked about how the supreme court's jurisprudence on children is is basically like writes in trust thesis right there. Some specifically, you know, tinker versus demoing students do not shed their rights at the schoolhouse gate, right? There are some specific rights where the courts have said you kids have this kind of right? But but by and large right the minute, you give somebody a right? You are then saying that that person has a claim that they can make against the majority. Even if the majority passes a law, and that law will have to survive strict scrutiny, if it infringes upon a fundamental, right vesting fetuses with rights is is going to be so profoundly unworkable that I think you would have a chance of, you know, even pulling out like, you know, a Neal Gorsuch, for example. Right. Like, yeah. It'll get a Lido, and it will get Thomas because again in the in the realm of of, you know, TV ugly, right? Clarence Thomas is is not smart. And I don't think he cares. But I mean that would be so profoundly unworkable that that. That would surprise me. But again coming to supreme court. Yes. As you near us is what I would say. Okay. I don't think I really really don't think. So and that that would actually be I mean, put that on the whiteboard, it would be a really good topic for future show as to why it's it's not likely, but but you are right. That like whenever there is a way of characterizing something as a fundamental, right? That would then Trump whatever protections exist at the state level. I in that future show. I will talk about you know, ways to make it clear. Right. You need a satanic temple style strategy there. Right. Like of okay. But if you come up with this. Here's what's going to happen. And it needs to be so clear that even Neal Gorsuch is like, yeah. That that kind of seems like that could be a problem. But back to leave that aside. Let's let's assume we're just in the realm of evaluating. The question is not is a fetus a person deserving constitutional rights. That's a separate question. The the first question is does a woman have a liberty heaven autonomy right to make reproductive health decisions concerning her own body. Right. And in the United States since nineteen seventy two the answer to that question has been. Yes, at the point at which the answer that question into the US constitution becomes no. The question is is there a basis for support for that argument in your state constitution? And and here we go to something that this is just crucial that you become informed at at your state level. In terms of understanding, the kinds of candidates that your governor intends to appoint to the bench. And and and that we are informed in our discussions. Right. So one of the things that state supreme court justices have done for a long long time is they have there's a phrase called in pari Materia and its Latin. So I don't know exactly what it means. But, but but what it means is in illegal terms is I it means interpret read the same or substantially the same as right? And so what happens is oftentimes a state will have a version of the federal Bill of rights in their state constitution. But it will be worded differently. Right. And the question will then come up before that state supreme court that says, hey, look, you are first amendment in the, you know, let's say this is not in Maryland example, let's say the Maryland declaration of rights says in article one that you know, all people enjoy the right to freedom of expression and the unlimited right to assemble four addressing. The government, right? And that's written slightly different than the first amendment. Does it mean to those differences mean anything, right? Is it is it to be interpreted separately from the first amendment or is it to be interpreted in pari Materia, right? And. For a long long time the trend at the state court level, particularly during the Warren court, which was a liberal expansion of rights from from the supreme court was to say, well, they're in pari Materia, right? It's the written a little bit differently. But, but we're going to defer whatever the supreme court says is the law on freedom of speech is also the law on the Maryland declaration of rights, for example, them accents. Yeah. I may see you don't wanna be trying to litigate like what the subtle tiny differences in wording would be. It's it's essentially just not it's the same rights. Yeah. That's exactly right. So now that question was posed to the Kansas supreme court and here the two respective provisions. You know, the fourteenth amendment to the constitution says in relevant. I know it by heart fourteenth little. Earlier says no state can deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of law, nor denied any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law of the law ready. We said the same time guy if you didn't hear it over sky. We were saying reciting it with you. Brandin edit me. And so I said it all right? Section one of the Kansas. Bill of rights says all men are possessive equal and inalienable natural rights among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So again, think about the hypothetical that I just gave you right? You might say those seem like they might be in pari Materia, right? Like that. They seem pretty close. Right. They're both getting at equal protection of the law. Right. And and what the Kansas supreme court said was no those are not identical provisions. They should not be interpreted identically, and in fact, right? The the key provisions here is the fact that our Kansas Bill of rights starts with equal and inalienable natural rights and that phrase natural rights is not found in the. Fourteenth amendment. And it means that we need to do an independent analysis of what natural rights are. And then does super lengthy analysis of what natural rights are where ultimately what the Kansas supreme court says is and this is page forty four if you want the the the key takeaway at the heart of a natural rights philosophy is the principle that individuals should be free to MC choices about how to conduct their own lives. Or in other words to exercise personal atonomy few decisions impact our lives. More than those about issues that affect once physical health family formation and family life. We conclude that this right to per- personal autonomy is firmly embedded within section one's natural rights guarantee. And it's included concepts of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So that means this is a perk uranium decision. There is one there's a concurrence the talks about the test, which we don't need to get. There is a VO dissent from a forty seven year old Scalia acolyte that we'll talk about in the c segment, but this very very conservative state supreme court that six one said, yeah. No. When when we look at the history, the original intent, the meaning behind the people who enacted section one of our Kansas Bill of rights, it very clearly meant to to protect personnel me and personal Tana me means the right of women to control their bodies is not an activist. Crazy progressive supreme court state supreme court fly pie. Any means. This very first off. I think my new phrase for like whether or not you, and I agree should be. Are we in pari Materia here? We you. And I there you go. And then Secondly, this is shocking to me. And I'm trying to think the first time I want to emphasize like, obviously, I, you know, I agree with the substance of of what's happening. I agree with the. Come here. And I'm glad for it that that that they want to protect the, you know, a woman's right to choose what happens to your body totally very ecstatic that they are doing that. But, but if we if we change it we're talking about something else, for example. I don't know what. But some other issue maybe and a court had had done it just it kinda strikes me as activists to be honest with you, you know, like how how do you how do you figure out? Okay. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna take this subtle language difference that is existed in our state constitution for probably however many hundred years, and we're going to decide today in twenty nineteen that it actually means a different thing than it was in the federal, you know, the United States got Zueschen and how we going to do that. I had some clear to me are they going back and doing an originalist textual. Reading of what the Kansas founders, the founding can which I think is Oz. A related as it's got to be some people involved in vase movie. I think they were the first ones to discover Kansas. Now, I like how they doing this how they figuring out. And how would they do? So in a way that wouldn't just be a partisan lens. You know, like, I I really don't know. So I I I love that. Let Libby that's a bunch of questions. Let me try and break them down. And and and let me postpone answering it for just a minute, right? Because I think the best way to answer that question is to talk about should have done this at at the outset is to talk about the specific facts of the case that came before the Kansas supreme court, and that is in twenty fifteen the Kansas legislature passed Senate Bill ninety five it was enacted into law. Senate Bill ninety five prohibits physicians from performing the dilation and evacuation method of abortion except quote where necessary to preserve the life of. The pregnant woman or to prevent a quote substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman. Okay. And that dilation and evacuation procedure that is the procedure that is used for ninety five percent of all second trimester abortions. Sidebar to the sidebar. There is a and I don't know that I'm even gonna have time to mention a stunningly dishonest national review article. I know that those are synonyms, but the the the hysterical antiabortion, right? Calls dilation evacuation. Oh, gosh. What do they call it? The dismemberment of a fetus. And I, you know, it's an all sorts of other, you know, kind of learned from Donald Trump at what happens in this actually happened because we you know, I recently had a baby in the this is absolutely true. What they do is they wrap up the baby. All nice. And then they ask you do you want to murder the baby that do this every through teen? That's that's how it works in America. Courting to Trump. So, but, but if you want a great Gotcha for anybody. Who is saying, oh, well, you know, we this is a hideous and barbaric procedure, and then then code page nine of the opinion because before the trial court, right? So so the Bill passes, and then the exact procedure that I told you was going to happen in Alabama happened in Kansas. Right. A Kansas, except this was in the state courts, a Kansas state courts had were slapping down an injunction on this very clearly, violates the the the woman's right to an abortion under Planned Parenthood versus Casey because you are restricting ninety five percent of of the abortions in in the second trimester. And and the state in order to argue Ono there. They're plenty of other alternatives. The alternatives that the state suggested were labor induction abortions. Right. What they refer to as partial birth abortions, by the way, induction of fetal demise using an injection what they refer to as poisoning the baby inside the womb and in induction of fetal demise using umbilical cord transaction, right? So all three of those are the same order of can be described in kind of similarly gruesome language, so you know, when you see pieces like this national review or your aunt, Cathy or whatever say oh. And they allowed fetal dismemberment abortions. Or, you know, whatever they're calling it on FOX the state themselves argued for, you know, methods of abortion that would be similarly capable of being described in that kind of language. And of course, the game is to reduce this out piecemeal, right? You get rid of the most common method. And then you go after all the rest of the methods, right and the undisputed factual defiant findings below were that there were no safety benefits to using any of those other methods of of abortion as opposed to the dni method that those other methods had a greater risk of harm to the woman in in some what you know in some you might consider more on the minor scale. But but health risks include nausea, vomiting, impossible's ation. And in the in the case of the umbilical cord transaction that that these of that increases the procedure time makes it more complex increases the risk of pain infection. Uterine perforation and bleeding, and that all of those are very very minor procedures by minor. I mean minority infrequently used right? So this is fairy very clearly an effort to make it difficult for women. If not impossible to get an abortion in the second trimester in Kansas, and what happened was trial court said. Yep. Obviously injunction. This case, violates the law Kansas appellate court wrestled with the question of whether this constitutes an undue burden under Casey. And so it split. But because it split the injunction stood and then and then that was a firmed at the at the Kansas supreme court on on different grounds. So so that gets into the second half of your question, which is is this a kind of activism and and. I would give you a qualified. Yes rate. I would say this is a kind of activism in the way that hating a hate group is kind of hatred, right? Seriously. And and and I mean that way that calling racists racist is the real race. Right. Exactly. Because what what has happened is fright. Four decades state supreme court has said look we can rely on the US supreme court to faithfully adjudicate what individual rights are. And we're gonna let them do the heavy lifting, and you know for good or for ill. That's how state supreme courts have generally worked. And and here is a state supreme court that very clearly looked at this and said, look, we don't have to stick ourselves with the reasoning that this runaway train wreck of a US supreme court with where they're going. And again, I want to emphasize this is a conservative an old school conservative backlash against a an activist reactionary US supreme court. There is nothing. So. Now. Is it is it activism in the sense that they changed their course in their jurisprudence. So yeah, that's that's a fair initial description, but is it activism in the larger sense? Absolutely, not right. There is nothing that prevents a state supreme court from saying we're going to undertake this analysis independently, and you know, what states are sovereign. So even if the people because think about this if. If the idea if follow originalism bright to its stated possession, right which is to say that the you are bound by the meaning of the terms of the provisions of the constitution as understood by the people who ratified it right at the at the time at which that was ratified. That understanding right? You you could have identical words, and the understanding on a national level may be very different than what it's understood in a particular locality, right? You could say, yeah, we interpreted these words this way, generally across the country interpreted in this way here in Kansas. There's there's absolutely nothing inconsistent. Even if the words were identical. And and where the words are not identical. Right. Then it certainly is worth saying, hey, did did we mean to do something different now in going through the historical analysis? The the Kansas section one of the Kansas Bill of rights was passed prior to the passage of the fourteenth amendment. It predates it. So. Yeah. There was a lot, you know, going on at the time and again twenty years ago. This decision wouldn't have come out right because twenty years ago, the Kansas supreme court would have said, you know, what where okay with where the US supreme court is going. They're not okay with it anymore. And and and then to answer the second part of your question half of this opinion. I told you the majority opinion was eighty six pages long. That's true all eighty six and a half almost eighty seven the bit that I read you about personal autonomy is on page forty four the next forty pages is a historical analysis of the original, meaning and precedent for since the adoption of section one of the Kansas Bill of rights, and and Mika it's what I it's why really wanted to get into this opinion, because there is in my view, you know, if you want to words that differentiate old school conservative jurisprudence from contemporary howler monkey react reactionary judicial activism. Right. It's those words and precedent. Right. It is there is no question here that that there is an effort being made to understand the original. Meaning of those words in the Kansas constitution. That's what they set up to. And there's nothing improper about wanting to do that. All I've ever argued against originally. I've never said, you know, hey, we we shouldn't try and figure out you know, what this meant in seventeen Eighty-nine. All I've said is that the ordinary model of jurisprudence says is that that understanding is informed by how those words have been interpreted over time by the relevant court of jurists, you know, having a relevant jurisdiction interpreting those words over time. And that we don't get to look at it fresh in twenty nineteen and say, well, you know, obviously, the second amendment means that individuals have a right to a semi automatic weapon with a magazine round capacity of thirty like that. That's what makes it preposterous. Right. It's not the effort to to divine the original principles. It is refusing to recognize that how those principles get applied over time is what makes the rule of law the rule of law. It's it's it's a. Really really fascinating decision. So if you have a couple of hours. I would encourage you to read the first seven pages. Yeah. Curl up with with this. No this. It's also a fun read because Steet supreme court decisions are are written differently than than US supreme court decision. And I can take you say I seven pages. That's really really funny. The first eight or nine pages of this are the head notes. They're numbered. It's actually just the first five pages. They're the Twenty-one head notes, which is a summary of the of the findings below. So you can read the first five pages. And it gives you kind of the spark notes Cliff's notes summary of of the law in a way that any listener of away can can can clearly understand it. So right, for example, head note. Three says Kansas courts have the authority to interpret Kansas constitutional provision, independently of the manner in which federal courts interpret, similar or corresponding provisions of the US constitution. This can result in the Kansas. Institution protecting the rights of cans more robustly than would the United States constitution. Right. That's not hard. And and it's a great. It's it's a it's a great lesson. And and it's a it's not soluble. But it still feels like a matter of luck. Like, I I mean countdown to this being used for evil and some other state, right? I mean, couldn't you couldn't the state supreme court decide something abhorrence just based on the same method. But again, they can't decide it lower than the minimum bar protected by your federal US constitutional rights. So it can't get worse. Look like, I agree. You know, your federal rights are are dwindling by the moment. But, but that's what I mean when I say that it's no risk, right? Like, if they if they come up with a kind of terrible decision than the floor of that decision is going to be the US supreme court. So, you know, it's it can't be worse than that. You know? You know, it's a it's a heads. Nothing happens entails you win. So. What that means is. When you are talking to your candidate for governor in your state, ask her who she intends to appoint to the to the state supreme court, right? Ask her how she intends to maintain the independence of the Kansas or the Maryland or the California judiciary from the US judiciary. That's out bad things have gotten it's requiring us to know and care about who might be in some sort of state government that I guess we all have who. Yeah. We should. Engaged wish. I I'm entirely joking. We should be more civically engaged anyway. But good advice there. Hey listeners. Opening arguments is brought to you by the New Yorker. And we love the New Yorker because it represents the best writing in America today. 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I wish I could. Okay. Long fake lightning round. Stephen Davis asks Caleb Steagall win from being the governor's chief counsel to a state supreme court Justice in just eight months with a short layover on the Kansas court of appeals. He's forty seven Steagall Stu gal like Stevens degaulle. Goal is a hardcore originalists in worship Scalia. My question is this what the clown horn is his descent supposed to mean, his leap from individual rights to the states police power makes no sense. And I'm not sure what if anything I missing while what? An awesome question from a highly informed listener, Stephen Davis. Yeah. What what he said? All this. Hey, I I love the background on Steagall. His descent begins at page, one hundred fifteen and is eighty four pages long so longer than the majority opinion. When once you've subtracted up the head notes in the introduction. I mean significantly longer. Here's the reason that the opinion seems weird. And that is the entirety of the case comes down to as we've mentioned the distinction that you know, the the the distinction between the Kansas constitution using the word natural rights and the fourteenth amendment not using those terms. So then the question is what do natural rights me. Right. By the way. This is something I can't tell if I don't know this carry Severino is in the national review. So I can't tell if this is disingenuous or just stupid, but it's one of those two right because the the conservative sources, you see pillorying the the state the the Kansas supreme court are like, and why would, you know, state supreme court like go through this lengthy opinion me I'm gonna read from the national review here the opinion meandered from the historical and quote philosophical underpinnings of natural rights to an exploration of bodily integrity. And and you know, sort of lampooning it as kind of judicial activism and navel-gazing you have to figure out what the words natural rights means in the Kansas constitution in order to adjudicate whether it's different from the fourteenth amendment. And by the way, that's what you should be doing. If you honestly believed in your originalist philosophy that you care to a spouse now. What is Steagall doing in his dissent? And why is he talking about the police power? It is terrifyingly simple. And it is this the the second paragraph. And and I get you know, that there's a ton after the second have actually summarizes where his opinion goes. He says the structural idea that gave birth to Kansas as a political community, which is achieved consensus support across most of our history is that the proper conditions for just rule are met via participatory consent to secure and promote the common welfare. Now. That's a lot of fancy language for saying, hey, the majority passed a law who are we to tell the majority. They can't pass a law. I I realized that sounds ridiculous because the entire right? Like the definition of a right is a right against the majority rally. You don't need a right if unless until passes a law preventing you from doing, but but that's literally what he says. And so the the the importance of the police power is to say if he can prove that the state has the legitimate right to pass laws in that area. Then by definition, you don't have a specific, right? As against the government in order that that that then can be the basis of a lawsuit or in this case right can be the basis of claim arising under the Kansas Bill of rights. So the entirety of the descent is meant to say, no Lockie in natural rights. Here were not meant to be rights, but were meant to. Curtail the power of the state in specific ways, they're not curtailed in this particular way, when it comes to abortion. Therefore, you don't have this wide ranging individual right to Autan. Emmy, that's the argument that they're trying to put together if you're thinking, hey, wait a minute. I thought these were supposed to be Liber -tarian pro small government. You know, drowned in the bathtub the answer to that is sh. No, there's no there's no consistent answer to how these smoke. Visit this explicitly a defense of wide range government power to let the majority do whatever it is the majority wants when it comes to, you know, restricting women's bodies, and and other stuff that you know, conservatives care about, but you know, the government has to be hands off when it when it comes to to taxes. There is the it. I don't recommend reading the descent. I I have read I it. It is truly a clown horn of a descent, I mean, it include it, it it feels like it was not cobbled together by lawyer, it it it includes like the veered discussion of how is it snitty like it was written by one of the staffers undermines are called back to our testimony. Yeah. I I would hear what do you make of this? Okay. Today's opinion does not disclose. The inconvenient fact that a majority of the forty-one women serving in the Kansas legislature at the time of passage voted in favor of SP ninety five in favor of his by the way, the majority does not grapple with the problem of sex selection abortions and the vicious misogyny inherent in that despicable practice. See Eberstadt the global war against baby girls from the new Atlantis. I mean, like literally if this were a liberal judge had written this opinion. Everybody would be all over your appealing to the votes in the legislature. And you cite an opinion article in the new Atlantis. Are you kidding me? Like, well, whatever happened to just unpire calling balls and struck, you know, and then right? There's a long, you know, select there's a long there's a citation to the UN population fund to. Talk about the worldwide rise of sex selective abortions. Despite the fact that the Scalia Accola Antony Scalia, you know, once ridiculed Ruth Bader Ginsburg from the bench for citing to the United Nations in an opinion. The majority does not mention the fact that more quote, progressive nations in our global community tend to restrict abortion after the first trimester. I are you kidding me? Like, these are the kinds of arguments that Scalia mayday career out of lampooning. And and you know, he certainly would not sign onto this opinion. It's it's it's a stonning to me. So little out there. It seems a little desperate it. Absolutely. Right. It seems politically motivated like have you guys considered something that might be happening on an international scale that I read in this one magazine, does you consider that in your opinion majority. So, but look like this is state supreme court again, you know, people who belong to federal society listen to the show. So, you know, maybe they're gonna start trying to weaponize state supreme courts as well. That's what I'm saying. Just countdown to this us being used for evil. But right now, you know, this is this is this is where we need to be out in front, and and look, you know, this this goes to show, you the landscape at least here, you know. Isn't isn't? Maybe what you think it is. And you know, I I've said from the very literally from episode one of the show, you know, give me an honest political conservative on any court anywhere. You know, somebody with whom I can have a discussion and say, okay, you know, we disagree over X. But we at least agree on the facts, we at least agree on the line of precedent from seventeen eighty nine to now, you know, I can talk to that person. I can deal with that person. And most importantly, I can construct an argument in front of that person. Right. You know, a Samuel Alito. I. I construct an I mean, this is the question we tried to ask Monica billet, right? How do you? How do you try and persuade Clarence Thomas answer? You don't write like that it that feels like a, you know, a bad bad Rodney Dangerfield routine. But like, it's true. Right. I mean who on earth with a politically motivated or with with an opinion that has a potential political outcome. Why would you look at Clarence Thomas? When you're when you're making your argument. Right. Like, you know, how he's gonna vote in advance lots of people, right? Did you know we talked about this in in in Friday's episode? I clerked for a very conservative supreme court state supreme court judge Justice. And and those people did not get involved in the law to rubber stamp, you know, political outcomes right by and large that they're they're they're not the same as the current wing of activists that are out there. And and and I think it's time that we start understanding how to how to pitch our arguments to the folks who might listen. So so there you go. All right. Well, let a little little bit encouraging. But we'll leave it to the listeners to decide, but it is time to thank our new patrons over on patriot dot com slash law. And hope you enjoyed the QNA. Hope you enjoyed the new metro coats all the good stuff bonus episodes occasionally as well. And a lot of movies coming at you soon. But here we go we start with d four takes the bar exam. Thirty two for one twenty two twenty six point two percent next answer is d o. So someone's just rolling dice. I write defer. Yeah. There you go cranky activists count. Well, they're they're prediction is next answer is d so we'll see if that's right because I I think I guess see I don't know find out in a minute cranky activists coloring, Nathan Dickey, Chris Naylor Jaycox. Anton pope Papa vine. Sorry. Scott bell. Jeremy Smith hamburger. And Dan Bongino can eat a clown horn Bongino. Yeah. Yes. He can't Bongino. Yeah. Who is that? Oh it. I don't have enough time to go through it. But yeah. Okay. Well, you're. Thank you to Christopher c-. Stotts Tom Kaine Kelder Cleveland Christie Java. John's J O H H joh- John's Nicklaus stark Westerberg. Valerie, Galloway Charrette Novak Josh and Malia Savar mental. And then there's some symbols Mr. bible pants. So thank you so much. And if you'd like us to give you shout out head on over patriot dot com slash law. Give us little as Bach contoss book. And we'll read out your name, even if it has clown horns or bible pants, or I know repeated letters in it. Thank you so much for helping us out. Hey listeners opening arguments is brought to you by the great courses. Plus, sometimes we all need a break from the constant news cycle, especially on this show. And the great courses plus can be a great escape. And so in power as well with the streaming service. We can pick up a new hobby. Or build our knowledge on virtually any topic. We wanna know more about like, the great palaces of the ancient world or life lessons from the great books. Even how to courses on everything from cooking to stargazing. There are thousands of fascinating lectures to explore all presented by award winning experts. Who are so passionate about what they teach as I say, they have an Andrew Torres over there for every topic. It's perfect. And with the great courses plus app, you can escape into this vast world of knowledge at anytime watcher, listen, whatever works best for you. And I gotta recommend. Here's this this. You might not expect this. But I recommend this cooking course, called the everyday gourmet rediscovering the loss art of cooking. I have been actually having to cook dinner since Lydia's tethered to a newborn I've been having to cook dinner, and you know, I'm kind of enjoying it. And I wanna get better at it. I'm gonna watch this everyday gourmet rediscovering lost. Art of cooking course. And it's all kinds of stuff like that. I love that. If you wanna get into anything, whether it's with cooking or. Photography whatever it is. You can learn from the best in the world at the at the touch of a few buttons here. So empower yourself with knowledge sign up for the great courses. Plus today, our listeners get an all access trial for free for free. Start your free trial. Now, go to the great courses plus dot com slash oh. A that's a of course for opening arguments. Remember, the great courses plus dot com slash oh. A free trial access to every course that you could possibly want. Go check it out. All right. I it's time for TB. I'm I'm not I'm not happy with with how this one went. We'll see I I'm not domestic though. And also we get to check if the D four answer of d if the dice answer D is right. Maybe the dice is doing better than I am on this one. We'll say, oh, no, socially. This firm has ever failed the Bar Chen kidding? Yeah. So this was someone bought a bottle. Of decomposing snail soda. It's incredibly addictive coming to LA merge story. Gosh. Decomposing snail Cole of that's I bet some of our listeners could feel I feel like are proven innocent candles will sell bad on that. They're so good. And you know, got got totally sick. And and sued the store to recover damages for injuries that she. The the Chee had from drinking decomposing snail soda important facts, the parties agreed that the snail had been put into the bottle during the bottling process over which the store had no control parties. Also that snow would have been visible in the bottle before the consumer opened. This is a super classic tort question. It is a question of strict liability. And so you need to know is this a strict liability offence. And if so did any of those facts that I talk about matter, and you eliminate you immediately eliminated d which I have to tell you was a really excellent elimination. And I'm hoping that you will eliminated a because of you didn't say this. But I'm hoping because of a prior TT where we talked about recipes a look tour. Yes. Because the store had exclusive control over the bottle before selling it to the consumer exclusive control is one of. The tests of recipes alot quitter, right? And recipes is the tort doctrine that allows you to somebody even when you can't directly prove it was them. Right. That is right. Yeah. Yes. So the barrel. That says Thomas barrel company falls off the truck and rolls you, and you know, and what you have to do is show that the barrel says Thomas barrel company, even though, you know, you don't know who had who was driving the truck, or, you know, twelve surgeons are in and they leave the sponge that says, you know, this sponge comes from Sacramento General Hospital. Right, right. Yeah. You don't have to be able to prove which doctor did it. It's just like all right. You guys did this. Exactly. Right. So this is not a recipe case. So that is a total non attractive distracter. It did not attract you, it did not distract you. Good work. Then the question was is this analyze -able? Under ordinary negligence principles. So a was no because the consumer could have seen the snail in the bottle before she drank out of it that is the defensive contributory negligence. Right. And in most states contributory negligence is a common law doctrine. It is not followed in most states. It is followed in Maryland kind of weird. But but contributory negligence says if you contributed to your negligence than the defendant is alleviated from the responsibility, right like, so if it's kinda your fault than you can't pin it on the defendant. And so it breaks the chain of cause Asian almost every state has moved to a comparative negligence standard, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's like, okay. Well, how much of this was your fault? Okay. You were twenty percent at fault. The defendant was eighty percent at fault. So you get eighty percent of your injuries recovered, and how could that happen, right? That is like somebody T bones you, but you weren't wearing your seat. Belt, right? So you're injuries are worse than they would have been if you had on your seatbelt. But the guy still slammed into you. Right, right. This is going for a contributory or comparative negligence with respect to you could see that there's a snail, and you drank, and you dummy doesn't matter not a defense in a strict liability case, and then be no because the store was not responsible for the bottling process. I kinda felt like that was the most intuitively attractive distracter and that really gets down to the the whole philosophy behind strict liability in the first place. So what a strict liability mean, it means what it says. Right. If you do a thing and somebody is injured, and the tort is strict liability than it does not matter whether you exercise care or whether the plaintiff failed to exercise, nothing matters. We think that that kind of tort is something where from a social perspective we value making the victim. Whole more than we value properly apportioning the fault, right? And so in other words, if you think about and manufacturing defects, right? And that's what this would would fall under right? That's that's the significance of the snail gets into the bottle during the bottling process. Right. So it's a manufacturing defect. I'll be at a weird one. You know, usually, it's something like, you know, the the teeth on this chainsaw are offset. Right. Like, there's a there's a problem on the line. And now the chainsaw when you started up at throws the chain into your face. Right. And so yeah. Real Andrew's school of gruesome. Strict liability cases, right? But so you could imagine if you're just using ordinary negligence principles right now, you have to figure out well who was negligent here, right? Like did. I use the chainsaw the wrong way. Did I did? I put on the chain the wrong way did the store failed a label at did the distributor failed a box. It up did the manufacturing as legal test of denying do. Exactly, right. Nice current reference by your. Yeah. Yeah. Current. No. So in strict liability cases, we say, you know, what they're some kinds of torts that we don't want the plaintiff. We don't want the burden to be on the plaintiff to figure out where figured I change went wrong. We wanna we want the plaintiff to be made whole I let them recover from whoever. And then let the defendant sorted out. Right. So that and that by the way is kind of the answer to the fairness question. So you have you have discovered by process of elimination your answer. See, yes. Because the consumer was injured by defective product sold to her by the store that is indeed the correct answer. And and the reason that you were a little bit uncomfortable. I suspect is is you're thinking, well, what if the star at the store didn't know rhyme? Yeah. It doesn't quite seem. It's interesting. I'm glad I ended up the right answer. But yeah, it's like I felt uncomfortable because it doesn't seem entirely fair. But it sounds like it's. Kind of where we've landed socially like, this is what we want to be that. It's the best option in the series of options. And there's a really really important second half of this that doesn't show up in the question that is nevertheless important in the law. And that is the question doesn't ask what causes of action? Does the store have against the manufacturer? Right. Yeah. So the the store and look realistically all of this is likely to be covered by insurance in real world. But yet, but even common law, right? What this does is? We all have to decompose nail insurance policy. I hope I hope you definitely take snail insurance policy from podcast advice. I'm sorry. This policy has a writer that specifically excludes decomposing snails and forget their new advertisers nail assuring if it had been a live wool Rhys, then you would have been. Okay. But decomposed snail is on the exclusions. No it. What what strict liability does is it. It doesn't leave the last person holding the bag it shifts the risk of litigation from the plaintiff to among the defendants. Make sense. It's kind of it's more. It's not based on like, a, okay. What's the absolute fair thing to happen? It's kinda based on like, all right? Who's gonna tend to have the power in the situation? And who do we want to whose life? Do we want to make whole easiest, and I and that the answer would be the poor snail consumer who's who's barf. Yeah. And and look this was this was the battleground on which I litigated insurance coverage cases for fifteen years. Right. And that is there there there are two ways in in the corporate insurance world to view how a. An insured can make a claim for a long term liability. Right. And and and so these are things like pollution cases, or health hazards as best us, right like, okay. People working at our plant were in the boiler room were exposed to us bestest over thirty year, period. We had fifty different insurance policies over that thirty year period. And the threshold question was could that insurance policy holder? Could they pick any one person and anyone insurer and say, hey, guess what? Lloyd's london. I add a Lloyd's policy, and I want you to pay for all of it. Or did they have to pro- Radha split it up over every single insurer over those thirty years and that and that approach right, obviously, the the insurance represented the insurance company we argued for the pro rata approach for for. His reasons. But even when we had it's called all sums is the first one even when one ensure gets stuck with all of the losses. It's not the end of the day. Right. It just means that that shifts the responsibility from the proving shifts responsibility from the policyholder to now. Okay. Now you ensure I I got I got mine. I I was made whole now you ensures go figure it out amongst amongst yourselves. And so it's it's it's it's still a common so common doctrine in the law in terms of trying to figure out who bears the ultimate risk of loss. And and that and that risk, right? I suppose I should add this this last bit here. The real risk is. What happens when somebody goes bankrupt. Right. So that's part of what that that's that's the longest explanation of an answer that I even got right? You got right. I know I'm sorry offline pari Materia here that I got it. Right. You got it. Right. I'll later I'm sorry. Does that die feel that it roll the D idiot? The attractive distracter wanna yummy. All right, gone top. Here. We go hop in your time machine and give us a forty five minute explanation of which listener got this fishing. All right. This was a great question for social media. A lot of folks had fun plan along. And there were a lot of really perceptive right than wrong answers. So Tom Pendle. For example, writes see the store can then sue the bottle in company to cover its losses as they are in a better position to do. So then the poor be snailed customer, which is exactly right, Dan s ads. I'm with Thomas on see the key is that the bottle was transparent. The store had an opportunity to examine the snail infusion prior to sale actually not relevant, but it does sort of go to the fairness question as as we talked about. But the first person out of the gate with the right answer is action toast. I believe a now a two-time TB winner who writes, the answer is c as Thomas discern stores that sell food are liable for damages for faultier inedible. Maddox sold to consumers, and they then have the ability to go after the manufacturer to recoup those damages because the customer does not have a direct relationship sinked dead on correct on the law, and congratulations for being this week's winter action toast, and everyone give it a follow at action underscore toast on Twitter and congratulations on being this winter. All right. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks for everything. Patrons. We love you. Thanks for making the show. Having patriot dot com slash law. Go support get access to goodies. And we will see on Friday for a nother rapid response. Stay fresh cheese bags. The law. This has been opening arguments with Andrew and Thomas if you love the show and wanna support trips odes, please visit our patriarch page at patriot dot com slash off. If you can't support a Spanish -ly, it'd be a big help. If you leave us a five star review on itunes, Stitcher, or whatever podcasts delivery via clean us and be sure to tell all your friends about us for questions, suggestions and complaints Email said open arguments at gmaiLcom, the show notes and links on our website at WWW dot open. Argh dot com be sure to like our page on Facebook and post on Twitter at open arcs until next. This podcast is production of opening arguments. Media LLC all rights reserved. Produced with the assistance of our editor. Brian see Hagan, our production assistant, Ashley Smith and our researcher Deborah Smith special. Thanks to research Gomez in the entire OA Wicky team, follow them at at a Wicky and a big thank you to our Facebook group, moderators Elisha cook, Natalie Newell, Emily waters. Eric brewer and Brian check out the opening arguments Facebook community and finally thanks to Thomas Smith for creating the show's theme song, which is used with permission. I never dreamed that you would be so in love with my new saying that I got from an online memes. Stay fresh cheese.
NPR News: 04-26-2019 11PM ET
"Support for NPR and the following message come from Dulles International Airport with the highest on time takeoff percentage of any airport on the east coast. I a d means I'm already departing more at fly Dulles dot com slash fast. Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Shay Stevens. Los Angeles County. Health officials say hundreds of people may have been exposed to measles at two universities NPR's. Nathan Ross reports that they're asking most of those people to self Corentin at home to southern California students one at the university of California, Los Angeles and another at Cal State LA have been diagnosed with measles. Health officials say that both of them may have exposed hundreds of other students faculty and staff to the highly contagious virus earlier this month and ev- issued a blanket quarantine for any of those people who are either not immunized for the virus. Or don't know if they are. They're only five confirmed cases of measles in LA county than a few dozen statewide other outbreaks in New York and Washington state have helped make this the worst year for the virus since it was radically from the US nearly twenty years ago. Nathan rot NPR news. A Russian agent has received an eighteen months sentence for. Trying to infiltrate conservative political circles, including the National Rifle Association Maria booting out pleaded guilty to conspiring to act as an undeclared foreign agent last year. Prosecutors say boot tuna hope to build covert channels of communications between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. But her lawyer Robert Driscoll says there's no mention of any such claim in the special counsel final report. I vowed curious that that that was mentioned that what she did was during the time of Russian election. Interferences led by the judge when in fact, had she been involved in any of that, it would imagine. A special counsel Muller would have mentioned it somewhere. And it's four hundred pages if she had anything to do with it. But he did not meanwhile, Bouton I'm has received credit for time already served in prison and faces deportation after completing the other half of her sentence. President Trump is reiterating his support for the US right to bear arms. Trump told the National Rifle association's convention in Indianapolis today that the second amendment is not going anywhere. He also said the US is pulling out of the United Nations arms trade treaty. The Trump administration is adding two Venezuelan officials to its sanctions list, which includes the country's foreign minister details from NPR's. Michelle Kellerman secretary of state might bump AO tweeted, a picture of Venezuela's foreign minister with the word sanctioned written across it in red. He describes Korte as a quote Madero lackey who has tried to thwart the Venezuelan people's democratic aspirations. The US is trying to pressure President Nicolas Maduro to step aside. He's lost legitimacy. The foreign minister is spoken. Several times recently at the United Nations accusing the US of promoting a coup in Venezuela. The treasury department is also adding Venezuelan judge to a sanctions list for her role in the jailing of opposition figures. Michelle Kellerman, NPR news, the State Department. You're listening to NPR news. The Kansas supreme court says abortion rights are protected by the state's constitution. The sixty one decision came in a case challenging at twenty fifteen Kansas law that would have restricted abortions after the second trimester. They decision clears the way for legal challenges to several other state abortion, restrictions anti-abortion activists in the state are now calling for a constitutional amendment in light of the supreme court decision. A motorist accused of ramming his car into a group of pedestrians in Sunnyvale, California has made his first quarter appearance since Monday's incident. Investigators say is Ahah people's deliberately attacked the victims as KD's Raquel Maria deal and reports defense attorney says people's is mentally ill. According to defense attorney Chuck Smith people's is a religious man who suffers from post traumatic stress disorder because of his military service. Thirty four year old people served in Iraq in two thousand five and six with the US army reserve, he's charged with eight cow. Of attempted murder. Sunnyvale police chief fond. No new evidence shows that the defendant intentionally target victims based on their race and his belief that they were up the Muslim faith, no declined to provide further information about the ongoing investigation. People's did not enter a plea in court. The incident sent eight people to hospitals some with life threatening injuries for NPR news. I'm Racquel Maria. Dylan in San Jose, California, Wall Street stocks closed higher today following report showing the US Konami grew at a strong pace in the first quarter. Dow gained eighty one points, the NASDAQ rose twenty seven I'm Shay Stevens. NPR news in Washington.
The Latest Assault on Abortion Rights
"From the ACLU. This is at liberty. I'm Emerson Sykes a staff attorney here at the ACLU and your host. In the last few months, eight states have passed laws severely restricting access to abortion and several other states have similar bills, pending most notably. Alabama recently passed a law that prohibits, nearly all abortions with no exception for rape, or incest, five other states have passed bills prohibiting abortion after a fetal heartbeat can be detected usually at about six weeks of pregnancy so early that many women do not even realize they're pregnant at that point, this wave of abortion restrictions has been building for decades since the supreme court decided Roe v Wade in nineteen Seventy-three. But it seems as if we've reached a turning point. Our guest today is my colleague Brigitta. Mary, Bridget is the deputy director of the us, reproductive freedom project, and she's been a tireless advocate for abortion rights for almost twenty years. She's litigated several major cases including current challenge to Kentucky's abortion ban. We'll discuss the state of abortion rights in America, how we got to this dramatic moment and what it's like to be on the front lines of this. To protect the right to abortion, Bridget. Thanks very much for being here. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. So can you start by orienting? Those of us who've had trouble keeping track of the quick succession of bills, and ever heightening rhetoric. If someone woke up after a four month nap, how would you explain to them? What's happened in where things stand? Now, I would say that we're at a unique time in our country's history on access to abortion. And we've now seen six dates pass bans on abortion, and I've never seen anything like this in the time that I've been doing this work. It is a direct assault on access to Boertien. It's an attempt to try to overrule Roe versus Wade, which was decided in nineteen seventy three and we're really firing also under is we have our challenges to the state restrictions. And were also battling the Trump administration as well. So both of these fronts state battles, and the federal battles are really keeping us busy. Well, let's start with the status quo. So Roe v. Wade set the line at viability. Which is roughly twenty four to twenty eight weeks after which abortion is prohibited. How did we get from there to where we are now? Yeah, so just a bit of a clarification. So reverses Wade in nineteen seventy three supreme court found that the right to abortion is a fundamental constitutional right under the right to privacy. They said that states may not prohibit abortion prior to ability and after that point states may ban abortion, except to save the woman's life or to save her health. There have been obviously other supreme court cases along the way that have reaffirmed that fundamental principle that states may not ban abortion outright, and most recently in two thousand sixteen the supreme court reaffirmed this in a case called whole health and probably the most grievous violation of this supreme court precedent is the Alabama look and you say a word about the Alabama law. So Alabama bands abortions outright with hardly any exceptions, and that is lightly different than the other bands that we've seen in the other states recently. Mississippi ohio. Missouri, Missouri Missouri's eight weeks and Georgia. That's right until Kentucky. That's right. My case. But it's just a matter of degrees. The other states that have banned abortion, recently. It's really two weeks after a person misses their period before most people know that they were pregnant, especially if you have a regular periods. So an outright ban versus a six week ban is not really materially different. These are extreme bans across the board and the idea of the fetal heartbeat, the six week approximately six week line. Is that a new development where did that line in the sand? Come from it comes from an antiabortion playbook. So when we see these copycat bills over and over again, this is the direct design of an antiabortion movement where they're trying to pass these laws to change the conversation to ban abortion, and it's really a coordinated effort across the country when the bills, pending, in many more states, there are villagers are winding down for the session. So I don't know how many more will see Louisiana's a possibility of when we might see we've recently heard Michigan as a possibility my home state, these abortion. Bands of not gun a noticed, we've seen people flooding into the streets. What do you make of the reaction to these bills? I think it's great that people are paying attention now it's very unfortunate that we got to this place. But a couple of things I want to know first of all abortion is legal off fifty states right now I think there's been a tremendous amount of confusion about that. And that's by design the people who are pushing, these bills want to confuse people. They want to chill access to worship and they want to shame and stigmatize providers of abortion by criminalizing abortion. But today abortion is legal off fifty states, and we're fighting to keep it that way, the tension that these bills have received is important because if we are going to preserve access tuber Shen in this country, it's all hands on deck. And that's the moment that we're in right now, obviously, there's been a chipping away slow tipping way at the right to abortion over the last several decades, actually since Roe versus Wade was decided shortly after in the mid seventies, we saw restrictions being. Passed on access to worship and have ever since. So I would say that the people who are galvanized, by the bands, that everybody should also pay attention to the other restrictions that are pending short of bands because you don't have to ban abortion, in a state to eliminate access to portion and Kentucky is a perfect case study of that. And we can talk about that more will do wanna get to Kentucky next use the it's all hands on deck. And like to hear more about who those hands are obviously, the ACLU has been playing a prominent role in challenging some of these laws but who are the other members of the coalition whether the different players that are trying to push back. So in the states, there are a number of repetitive Justice groups, and these are women of color, led organizations that have been really at the frontline of the battles on the states to push against legislation restricting access to abortion. In addition to doing a whole host of other work on the reproductive Justice front. They're also in the fight is our organizations that fund abortion and fund tr. Aval for Boertien. These abortion funds are critically important in this fight. Obviously, the other national groups Planned Parenthood center Frucht rights, Nair, all its whole host of organizations and the providers themselves. The number of abortion clinics are very active in their states in terms of this organizing efforts, and obviously, without some patients wouldn't be seen. Let's dig in a little bit on Kentucky where you're the lead on several cases. Can you talk about the most recent challenge battling in Kentucky? Yeah. So Kentucky has one abortion provider. And I think a lot of people are surprised to hear that Kentucky is one of six states, that has only one abortion provider, left right after Roe versus Wade was decided in nineteen seventy three. There were seventeen places where you could get an abortion and Kentucky. And today, there is one and that is our clinic EM w women surgical center owned by Dr Marshall, we are honored to represent them in four cases challenging five laws and most recently. This case that we had to file was a challenge to abandon abortion, starting at six weeks in pregnancy. And a ban on abortion, based on the reasons person seeking abortion, including four fetal diagnosis. So Kentucky's, a bit unusual that if there is a restriction pass takes effect immediately upon governor Bevin signature. And so, we had to file our case after the legislation passed anticipating Bevin would sign and the court blocks the laws, both of you hours after they were signed and took effect, but there was a scramble in the meantime, and it was very disruptive to patient care was you said this is not your first battle in Kentucky. And obviously the ban is a very dramatic measure, but can you talk a little bit about some of the other measures that have been passed short of a band that have chipped away at the right to abortion? I know they're all sorts of restrictions on access. People have been very creative in building walls between women and their services. That's right. And. And there are other lawsuits pending in Kentucky in particular in those case, apples of what we've been doing some of them have been brought by my colleagues, it's been a huge team effort. The one case that I'm also Lee council on, though is a case involving a requirement that abortion providers have written transferred greet with a local hospital and MW had that agreement in place for years complying with the law and governor Bevin took office. He made it his mission to close abortion providers. There were three abortion providers when he took office, and he forced the closure of two of them and he's been trying to close our clinic and Louisville ever since. And so governor Bevins' administration got a hold of the transfer that MW hadn't place with a local hospital and said it was signed by the wrong person. So the head of the obese I n department who signed the transfer agreement, but governor Bevin said that it needed to be signed by the CEO of the hospital and if it wasn't fix. In ten days that w would be forced to close their doors. And how explicit has he been about his mission to shut all abortion clinics, very explicit? He wants Kentucky to be the first state to have no abortion provider. This is his mission. He has talked about it openly. He has galvanized a antiabortion forces. He spoke to a group that eventually came to MW's clinic and blockaded their doors. We hadn't seen an old school blockade like this for a long time. But in may of twenty seventeen we saw a number of people go to MW's sit in front of the doors refuse to let patients in or out of the clinic during day where patients were seen they were arrested and actually under the Jeff Sessions department of Justice. There was a freedom of access to clinic entrances case brought against those people who blockaded the doors of w can you toes more about your clients? And also how these restrictions affected the community. Our clients is amazing. I have to say I'm just so amazed by their. Resilience. Dr Marshall has been providing access to Boertien for close to forty years, and he is Jim I n he's also delivered a number of babies throughout his time. And actually when you walk around Louisville with him, he's often stopped on the streets by people saying, thank you so much for delivering my son my daughter. And he's also been providing abortion than community for close to forty years. And what is the impact on community when they really don't have access to clinics, obviously, in Louisville, there's the one but the rest of the state what are people doing? How's it impacting them? So people have to travel hundreds of miles and people come, not just from Kentucky, but from all over the surrounding region because Kentucky is one of the few places where you can get an abortion in the second trimester. So there's all kinds of people travelling from all over and luckily, there is a wonderful community, not just the clinic that is there in Louisville. But there is an abortion fund. We've talked about abortion funds earlier. It's Kentucky health Justice network. That provides funds to pay for the abortion to pay for travel to get to the clinic to pay for overnight. Stays if needed and there's also a group of on tier escorts, because there are protesters' out every day, when patients are seeing EM w and there's a group of people that make sure that people can get into the clinic safely when the reason that we need a fund is because anytime there needs to be travel or it becomes more onerous. Obviously, the poorest folks are going to be the most heavily impacted. That's right. And going back to the restrictions that were passed right after Roe versus Wade was decided in nineteen seventy six the Hyde amendment passed. And this was named after Henry Hyde, who was a politician from Illinois. And this writer has been passed every year sense, and it prohibits Medicaid from covering abortion and Henry Hyde explicitly said that he would want to ban abortion for everybody, but his only vehicle was the Medicaid Bill. So you saw a very direct restriction on access to abortion for. For low income individuals. And we've seen this throughout our history that politicians go after the most marginalized, to take away their constitutional rights and the inability to use public insurance, and now private insurance, and a lot of states, including Kentucky largely it restricts access tuber she as well, repealing the Hyde amendment is a priority for the reproductive freedom project and also for the rights for all campaign as well. That's right. So one of the questions that voters have been asking presidential candidates is do you have a commitment to repeal the Hyde amendment, which is incredibly important when no, the litigation is pending? But what do you think are the prospects for success in these suits? So with respect to the bands, we anticipate winning in the district court, we anticipate winning in the court of appeals lower courts are bound by supreme court precedent, and this is a straight forward case states may not ban abortion in this way. So we are very optimistic that we will be successful in striking down the ban. Ends in the lower courts. And the real question is what happens when we get to the supreme court, President Trump vowed to appoint supreme court justices that would overturn Roe versus Wade. And so there is a hope by the other side, that there are five justices now that would overturn Roe versus Wade, or at least this rate is so much so that there really isn't the right to abortion left anymore was used President Trump has made overturning Roe v. Wade and explicit almost a campaign promise, but at the same time he's been even critical of the Alabama, Pat Robertson also came out saying, even this is going a little too far. How do you untangle this strategy from the other side? Well, I would say that's a bunch of lip service to be honest, and really what they're talking about is the lack of rape exception. So that is really not meaningful in terms of opposition to the Alabama ban. I think the Trump administration, we have seen their attempts to ban abortion, and the Jane Doe case, for example, this was a case that we lead involving an unaccompanied. Mercante minor who sought access to Boertien, and she came to this country on her own fleeing violence in her home country. And she was in a shelter and discovered she was pregnant and sought access to an abortion. And the Trump administration said that she was prohibited from leaving the shelter from accessing abortion. And so, I believe that the Trump administration would do to everybody seeking access to abortion what they did. Jane Doe of they could was you said, over your almost twenty years, working on this issue, things do feel different. Now it seems as if there's been a strategic shift for opponents of abortion. They were chipping away at Roe v. Wade bit by bit as much as they could. And it seems as if and you can correct me if this is wrong, but it seems as if they're now going all in, and the are playing all of their card, so to speak. They may be overplaying their cards, though, just banking on the five supreme court justices if they've changed their strategy. Have you had to change your strategy as well? Yes. And no. We always will have to fight the restrictions and this chipping away. You've talked about that's happened over years. But now we're seeing their true colors and now we can say we know that this has been their goal all along. They may have talked about these restrictions in terms of protecting women's health. We knew that was bogus then, and now we can say, look, it was bogus and one of our clients, Alabama Dalton Johnson who runs a clinic, there said in some, it's a relief, it's a relief now that we can just say that what we've been telling you all along as true what they wanna do is ban abortion, and they've done that now and does it all rest in the hands of the five justices at the end of the day. Well, certainly with respect to Rover swayed at does. But there is so many other ways to protect abortion, that people can engage in. And so we see at the state level pushing their politicians to hold them accountable. Make sure that they will pass measures to protect access to abortion in state constitutions. We've been seeing the right to abortion recognized for example, the Kansas supreme court just issued a ruling. Saying that in their state constitution abortion would be protected. So while we will fight to ensure that Roe versus Wade is upheld. There's a tremendous activity that can happen at the state level that people should be engaged in to protect access to abortion, when not a big fan of war analogies in general. But a lot of people have described this assault on abortion rights, as a part of a war on women, this, a part of a larger trend of things that you see in the political landscape. Absolutely. I, I wanna take a positive note that explicitly that there are people other than women who seek access to abortion, trans men, non binary individuals. So want to explicitly acknowledge that there are other people than women who seek access to worship but, you know, why I do this work in my Kenna came to this work is because I've always seen that controlling access to worship and contraception is a way of controlling women's ability to be qu'ils in society. And I think it's all part and parcel of the attempts to. To have women fit some stereotype about what their role in society should be. And that is mother's not working in the home, and it's this very retrograde idea of women's role in society. So I think if you look at all the other things that are going on all the other fights that, you know, we're having here at the issue about protecting women protecting t- individuals protecting the right to privacy. It's all connected will there's the question of law. There's the question of science around viability. But as you just stated, it's really also a question of culture and one of the other issues that you've been addressing in your work is the role that religious exemptions and other sorts of conflicts between freedom of religion and the right to privacy. Can you talk a little bit about that work? Sure. Absolutely. So we have worked on a interdisciplinary way with the LGBT department and women's rights and our religion project to really try to. Address this issue of the use of religion to discriminate against other people or to take away their rights. So I've been doing a lot of that work with respect to access to contraception and the use of religion to try to eliminate insurance coverage for contraception that is otherwise guaranteed by law. So I was involved in the hobby lobby case coordinating. The Emeka suffers writing are brief explaining to the supreme court, this long history of the use of religion with respected discrimination in the hubby lobby case. Can you just give us the ones though the Obama administration as part of the Affordable Care Act passed a measure to ensure access to contraception with no cost in any plan? That was covered by the Affordable Care Act. So anyone who had a health plan that was included in the Affordable Care Act, head coverage for all methods of contraception all prescription methods of contraception without cost. And number of entities including hobby lobby sued saying that it was against. Their religion to include contraception in their employees health plan. So said decades-long battle that still rages today about whether employers can use their religion to take away contraception coverage in an employee health plan, and the Trump administration has tried to moralize that in a new rule, basically rolling back the Obama era rule, and we're involved in those fights to block that. And right now, there's a couple of lawsuits that we've been helping out with in Pennsylvania, and in California that have blocked the Trump administration's attempt to roll back the Obama contraception coverage requirement. There's an almost dizzying array of kinds of restrictions on abortion, one other that I think, is particularly interesting is the waiting periods. And the other ways that the conversations that a person seeking an abortion has policed. Right. Can you talk a bit about those types of restrictions, as well? Sure. And actually, this is a good way to also talk about the moment of history that were in. Now and where we were in nineteen ninety two when a similar issue was presented to the supreme court. So the supreme court said in nineteen Ninety-two in case called Planned Parenthood versus Casey that states may an act waiting periods between time when they receive information that is promulgated by the state and the abortion. We think a lot of information as biased and designed to try to convince a woman who is seeking access to abortion, not to have that abortion. And we think that's very problematic. And then after receiving that information she must twenty four hours before getting the abortion, the supreme court in nineteen Ninety-two upheld this restriction and said it did not, at least in Pennsylvania. Create an undue burden in that case is incredibly important for couple of reasons that was the last time in our history, where people thought that Roe versus Wade might be overturned and almost was and a lot has been written about the history of what was going on behind the scenes in nineteen. Ninety two and Justice Kennedy basically switched his vote. There was a plurality decision, upholding, the fundamental rights to abortion, but really watering, down the test for abortion, restrictions to be valuated under and the supreme court in nineteen Ninety-two upheld. Amanda, Tori, waiting, period, this mandatory by counseling parental involvement for minors. The only thing that they struck down was requirement that a woman, tell her husband that she was eeking access to abortion. That's the only restriction that got struck down. And then for decades, we had to live with us watered down test of valuation abortion restrictions and all these restrictions that we were not able to strike down piled on top of each other pushing worship care out of reach, for so many people won't over that because of the twenty four hour waiting periods. Some of the clients in Kentucky who've traveled long distances ended up sleeping in their cars in the parking lot in order to. Wait out the clock which seems to be the very definition of an undue burden before. Casey moves that goalpost whether it's substantial obstacle that's placed in the path of people seeking access to abortion and also just the dignity of any other medical procedure. Imagine the government forcing you to wait twenty four hours to travel so far and then to be forced to sleep in your car in order to get the procedure, we wouldn't stand for that unthinkable. Well, it's interesting, I want to come back to the point you made that the one thing that the supreme court in Casey did strike down was the requirement that a person seeking abortion, tell their husband and this sort of calls back to griswald, which is the difference in how married women have been treated versus other people who are seeking an abortion. Yeah. It's interesting in coming back result versus Connecticut, which was the supreme court decision that established a married couples right to privacy to use contraception. That was later extended by Eisenstaedt on versus Baird in the nineteen seventies to single people. But you're right that the right to privacy was about this like intimate married couple personal decision making, and that's kind of the Genesis of it. And the parent versus Casey decision strikes down, the spouse will notice provision largely because of domestic violence. The court says that, you know, in a healthy marriage, most women will tell their husbands that there. Are seeking an abortion and it will be a discussion and the decision jointly. But there are some relationships that aren't like that, and it will be devastating dangerous, and even deadly to women who are in abusive relationships, they're forced to tell their husband that they're seeking access to abortion, will knowing that the supreme court historically has had this orientational sort of working from a baseline of the nuclear mother father, family. And of that, there's not a unique perspective to the supreme court is there any way that you tailor your arguments or pick your clients to try to appeal to those types of interests, or do you just say they're wrong from the get-go, they're wrong from the get-go as what we say, and, you know, we don't necessarily want to feed into that belief that only certain people and certain relationships should be able to get access to or Schnur contraception. We think everybody should have the right to make decisions about the respective healthcare. They can consult whomever. They want obviously in the process in most people do consult their most trusted, companions that should not be tainted by the government. We want to ensure that everybody has access to abortion, contraception. And when we bring these cases were usually bringing them on behalf of providers on behalf of their patients, you mentioned that the reason that you came to this work is the impulse to protect autonomy and equality for people who may become pregnant, but. Now you've been doing it for twenty years. And I can't imagine that. It's an easy way to spend your days. How do you maintain your optimism maintain your drive in the face of all these obstacles in some ways, I'm compelled to do this work? I can't even describe it. You know, even on days when I'm the most tired, I can't imagine doing anything else. I can't imagine spending my day any other way. I feel so viscerally Tron to this work in a way that sometimes I can't even really articulate, but I feel incredibly fortunate to be doing this work in this particular moment. I definitely tired, I think, you know, it's funny when people say that I've been working tirelessly as you do. I really read that. But I'm like I don't. I'm tired, I keep going. And I feel like we don't get the luxury of being tired. We sit in this position of being able to use our tools to help people, and that's what we do. We're inspiring all of your colleagues here in the building. But I know you're also inspiring a lot of people around the country. And I wonder if you have any advice for somebody who wants to pick up this battle and be the next bridge at Amiri. Yeah, absolutely. That's great. Because we need all the help that we can get, I would say start with your local community start with thinking about how you can help the organizations on the ground. And there's so many ways to do that. So I would contact your local abortion provider. I would talk to your local abortion fund, your local reproductive rights organization, and say, how can I get involved? How can I volunteer? How can I donate? How can I become part of the movement? You don't just have to be a lawyer to do that there so many ways to do that. And we really need. Everyone's voice is contact your elected officials. Tell them, this is how you're going to make your decisions about voting in the next election. And we really hope that ever. Everybody, engages like I said, it's an all hands on deck moment on our states, as you mentioned that are pushing back in the positive direction, including Vermont, in Nevada who recently passed bills protecting the right to which I don't know if they've been passed all the way through the final stage. But at least they made it through the first stages. Yeah. And also, you know, this is something that's incredibly important to that, if the worst case scenario happens if Roe versus Wade is overturned, and states are making their own decision about whether to allow access to abortion, obviously, about half the states will continue to allow Boertien, and we wanna make sure that those states have as few or no restrictions on access to abortion. So then when people come to those states, they're able to get access to care easily. So mean as a perfect example of this, they just passed a law, repealing the requirement that only doctors provide abortions to allow advanced practice clinicians to provide abortions as well. So expanding access. To worship in the states that will become haven if Roe versus Wade overturned is a deliberate part of art movement strategy. Yeah, I mean with this wave of new laws, not the progressive ones, but the restrictive ones in the prospect of possibly Roe v. Wade being overturned, I know you talked a lot about, that's not the only thing going on. We shouldn't ignorant all the other developments in just be worried about rove away. But as you said, that's kind of the worst case scenario on the other hand, the good news is that two-thirds of Americans want Roe v. Wade to stay in place. And I also read that eighty percent one emotion to stay legal in some form so given the variety of legal challenges, the not entirely promising prospects at the highest court in our land. Meanwhile, we have this groundswell of people who desperately want to protect the right to abortion. What's the past victory, however, narrow it may be what do you see as the possible way forward to achieve a future that you'd like to see, I think we have to fight it every level, both in terms of fighting the defensive fights and then fighting the offensive fights and we need to make. Sure that everybody is engaged in this issue, protecting the right to access abortion, at the state level. Telling your local politician that you don't wanna see these restrictions that you want to see abortion protected is incredibly important. There are measures at the federal level to do that, as well, women's health Protection, Act, for example, you're absolutely right. That the vast majority of people in this country want over his way to be upheld. They want to see abortion access in this country. One in four women in this country access abortion in their lifetimes. This is healthcare, and it's important healthcare. It's critical healthcare, and everyone can do their part to make sure that people are able to get it. We know that a seal Yousef borders, fired up and ready to go. And I know this is an extraordinarily hectic times. We appreciate you taking the time in for all your work. Thanks very much Bridget. Thanks. Thanks very much for listening, if you'd like to hear more conversations like this one please be sure to subscribe at liberty wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review the show. We really appreciate the feedback till next week piece.
OA342: Why the Supreme Court Should Scare You Even More Than It Already Does
"And what's the first thing I want to do after we have different. President taking shower and apple impeachment is about cleansing in I I do. The heretofore document had had dry AAC on for at least many fork nights Here too yeah. I did a long time. There was a long go. Side was powerless powerless to help you. Not Punish welcome to opening arguments. The podcast that pairs inquisitive interviewer with the real life lawyer. This podcast is sponsored by the law offices of the Andrew Torres. LLC for entertainment purposes is not intended as legal advice does not form an attorney client relationship. Don't take it legal advice from a podcast. Welcome nobody arguments. This is episode. Three hundred hundred forty two. I'm Thomas Smith There's Andrew Torres how you doing Sir I am fantastic. I'm on pins and needles for the Drastic dramatic back away. Fantasy football semifinals. Tomorrow I'll be I'll be rooting for blackbox men. Since my my team just narrowly missed this lights. Like this happens on Tuesday so I'm already so semi-finals already happened now. Yeah well then. They machine malfunction everybody basking in the glory. The of your upset victim definitely going onto the championship you know. I'm sure that's happening. Time Machine Working Andrew. Jeez I'm sorry it's look it's it's been a long life but particularly today along three years especially all right. We've got some fun stuff today. WE'VE GOT A. I think someone managed to make a copyright law question but with Christmas theme. Is that what happened. Yeah Yeah and and I. We can be bribed. We can also be induced into Answering questions by by means of Clever set I like it. So we we got that We've also got the bad news that you promised last week where we get to see how much more we're screwed because the supreme court being ruined because we failed in two dozen fourteen and sixteen. So there's that and then we've got we're going to go back to the wildcard segment format and I'm opening. You know I'm rooting. We get to this one but I still think we need. We need to make Andrew through do it like you gotTa know freebies. Andrew got to earn this wildcard. If you if you get to it. But Eliza do my best We'll see Andrew is up to the task of getting through all the things he needs to say in a reasonable amount of time which is very hard to do is definitely not taking away from how difficult that is all right. So that's our show. Let's get to our for segments. I give you my late. I can't do my those are my legs. It feels better so this is a frozen related question. And I'll have you folks know that that I had a A house rule against showing phoebe frozen. Because you know I remember when every little girl had to scream at the top of their lungs let let it go let it go let it go for over and over and over and I thought well it's just the voyage. She doesn't know what she she already has a movie she likes. We don't need to you. You know like just pretend we missed that one. Oh well it was it. was she going to wake up and realize like hey parents I think you're withholding a crucial Disney movie from me. No but I was overruled. I don't know how I'm not sure I'm launching an investigation. There's going to be articles of impeachment so forth Because somehow frozen was introduced to my child and now it's all she wants to watch from an issue singing let it go she she is so she's still only two and a few months. It's it's so cute. She's just now being able to mainly sink kind of thing stuff bare releasing stuff rather like she can't process the words fast enough. You know like she's still she's she's. She's very precocious. But it's still a struggle to get the words so she'll get there but maybe we can bypass that skips straight to frozen to maybe question of the audience or the frozen two songs less annoying than frozen one anyway. Those are frozen. All that is to say the frozen related question that has Very High Relevance to my household now against against my wishes okay say Josh Gad and this is from sorry by the way listener Tim for self is excellent question here we say Josh Gad who voices the friendly Snowman Olaf by the way one of Fiji's favorites I love it. She goes snowman. Snowman decides to make a song railing ailing against Justin Walker Amy Coney Barrett and Brad Kavanagh as right wing. howler monkeys in his voice? Could Disney. Sue Him I can't imagine that contracts for voice actors cover everything that they say with their own voice into perpetuity. So where is the fine line drawn. Can he speak freely on issues as of the day or is his voice in indentured servitude to the Disney Corporation. This that person jokes by the way but I'm not the biggest Disney historian. The one thing I do know is Disney. Totally aft- over The original the actress. Who Played Snow White? Do you know this. I mentioned it before. Yes something I came across in like like I was wikipedia. And because it's weird. I heard the. I've always wondered that little voice in Wizard of Oz that sings while the ten minutes singing sound a lot like snow white eight and I looked it up and it was Snow White. And that's the only other thing she was able to do. Because Disney who is like an evil corporation even back then was like okay. You're the voice of Snow White. We want that to be you forever. So you're never going to blacklist you. You can't do anything else. Ever accept that when she got to do that. One little vocal part heart but like they successfully blacklisted her with other with any studio and she didn't get to do on it. It's the worst so this is a very real question. I don't think they can get away without any more but they definitely cannot do that right is they. Didn't pass the bully like I know you didn't say this to Pat Yourself on the back so I feel comfortable complementing the the fact that you could recognize her voice in a bit part in a later production lake. I I continue. I'm one hundred percents this I continue to be in all of your of your Auditory Skill Shit. That's super impressive So let's answer the question here and I I loved. I loved everything about this question. Particularly the The indepth frozen setup which I knew what a pre you know. You would appreciate because of phoebe and our listeners. It's holiday it's everything it's fantastic. Okay so this is a question question of copyright and interestingly enough. I think this is something where you can figure out the answer by just thinking about what it it is that you own in copyright. So let's let's start off with the basics right You write the script frozen guy you write the story that well in fact. Let's let's work backwards. I you write the script for frozen. That's a thing you own right. Okay and the Disney zillionaire. You good on me. Well who knows right they could they could. They could pay you just to scriptwriter allows people look at this right so minimum wage be some poor Disney wage slave And you're cranking out scripts and you know you've you've written thirty eight in a you know caffeine. Fueled Hayes in the basement of You Know Sunnyvale California and all of a sudden like your fevered brain brain cranks out frozen you own that. Unless under the terms of your employment you are a script writer and everything it is works made for hire at which point the Disney Corporation. Because they're paying you eight dollars an hour now owns descript for weeks But in any any event somebody owns the copyright in the script for frozen and if say Sony pictures decided to come by and make turn the script for frozen into a movie. It's pretty obvious that would violate the copyright right they would have to. They would have to license that out. If Disney's he's like yeah we wrote this But you know we're not super huge on making it into a movie that's GonNa make eleven billion dollars. Maybe somebody else would like to do that right. You'd have to purchase those rights. So that's how the copyright works with frozen but now let's ask ask about what other right so it includes the word for word script of the thing that you're doing right right but one of the things we know if you've ever turned on TV is that you don't get the copyright in the idea right right we can can have eleven different shows that are like who's the best amateur singer in the world. You know come before a panel of judges and the winner will get a record contract right like literally every every network has three of those shows. And it's not like you know America's got talent or the voice serve you know whatever owns the copyright in a show about you know finding the next singing star right. Where's that and that seems like those are sort of opposite ends of opole hole but but they really are a number line right but they really aren't really what you own when you own a copyright in something is you own in addition addition to word for word that thing you own the right to create derivative works from it right so again go back Disney Disney owns frozen? They own law office medical great adventure. Whatever the shortest? That's exactly right like they owned the hypothetical right way back then to produce was frozen to write. You couldn't just say like oh no. Hey Look you oh. Yeah that's right. You word for word. What Olaf says but I can make a delightful romp about an animated snowman named Olaf and Higher Josh Gad? Right now no like that'd be a funny world like the minute again. If he comes out every other studios right now the I wanna make the sequel wins if our if our soul libertarian listener would write in because right like that that seems to be consistent with like like the efficient markets hypothesis writing that you should only you should not get derivative rights from your copyright. You should only get the initial rights and if somebody else wants wants to write a fan fix sequel Soviet We do not live in a libertarian. Paradise we live in a world with robust copyright law in which we would. I'd say. Hey you know what like we want to reward and encourage people to create enduring works of art and so we want to grant them derivative evidence rights really for both positive and a negative reason right like and the the negative reason is we don't want could you imagine a world in which you could legally we produce and sell fan fiqh right like because that's essentially what we're talking about then instantly like any good thing that was produced right would be drummed out by the legions of crap using the same characters right. So that's kind of the negative and the positive reason is we want to encourage courage particularly in the creation of art which is often not lucrative in its first go round We want to encourage people to to continue to produce that sort of stuff right so you get the right to do derivative works what. A derivative works mean derivative works include writing frozen to do it also includes frozen on. Ice Rank You know the the icecapades version live action For were you know toddlers at your local Civic Center it also includes the I guess there aren't Saturday morning cartoons anymore but you know the the Saturday morning serialized cartoon on Network tv of I think you said it's called olafs big adventure or something like that. I can't remember. Yes what we put on as a compromise because phoebe wants frozen. We're like well. Let's watch this thing. That's not the whole movie but is also still the characters it's good. I like having having watched lots of cartoons but not lots of frozen related spinoff cartoons But yeah let's put that all sort of under the category of you own own. Derivative rights includes spinoffs but now think about Olaf dolls right who should own the copyright in Olaf Aloft dolls and and again under Copyright Law Disney should own the copyright allocate certainly. Does he owns everything. I'm pretty sure Disney owns this show so I don't I don't know if that's true or just Disney's of monolith controls everything right well but but think about the opposite rule right. which is? We're watching a movie. Where like man? Somebody should make toy out of Olah. Riley Abbey Yeah Right. Of course I can see I mean. That's yeah obviously. That's a little ridiculous but I could see you know what if it was like. Oh whoever came up with the concept art for that character you know like I don't. I don't know how this divides out. When you make a movie I I guess because of like you're saying anyone who's working for a wage or something Disney still owns all of it all the property and everything despite the fact that there was some some person in there air that like drew the character and came up with that? Well end in fact. What you have pointed out is a situation that obtains in California the -Fornia all the time which is if contracts are not super specific? Then yes right you might have Overlapping Copyright claims as to Hey I created x original character and Disney. I Ne- failed to compensate me for that failed to require that I turn over my ownership rights in that character for that. And so and we we do not remotely Oatley have time to get into like the history of the marvel cinematic universe And that would put you to sleep. but suffice it to say that the reason is in on the incorporation of Spiderman into the MC you has to do with how those various characters were owned by various corporate parents. Right So so yes that that that is a it is alive question in the absence of Clearly defined wind contractual regulations As to if you have created an original character in other words Let me say it in an affirmative way it certainly as possible that I could write an original screenplay. Let's say but steal one of the characters that's in that scream lay right So so let's say I come up with We do this all the time when. We're just awful movie crimes. Have we committed are we well. It's we've committed zero crying right but if we tried to make that movie and monetize it You know we would then potentially you know damages to To the original characters. Fortunately we haven't done that but when we do we'll do it in a way that doesn't mean we have to pay anybody else. Yes that's lawyer we'd better be able to figure that doubt. I would hope that I can help us figure that but yeah so but right think about that like if if you if you come up with a super clever well it again and it really no the the full extent of the story here but my understanding is that the fifty shades of Grey novels started off twilight fan. If I'm getting this wrong please. He's do not yeah. I never know wrong about this. Yeah that's a joke or not like I've heard that same fact or whatever claim a million times and I'm always like are they being serious insulting. I can't actually tell I either. So but but but assume for purposes of the segment that that is okay. Then you we saw what happened right. which is the original contribution was maintained right the character's names were changed and all of the like Sparkley Vampire? Your stuff was stripped out right so that gets us back to our Josh Gad. Question and comes back and I think I've talked about this in an online. QNA But but it has to do with the very early years of the David Letterman show which as somebody who grew up watching television in the late eighties is like I love? You know it was one of the first lake staying up late as a as a as a kid you know in watching Letterman and just sort of the what. What was subversive back? Then and is you know has been imitated for thirty years since David Letterman used to have a guy come on his show. The guy's name was calvert forest and he was just a guy. He was not an actor prior to I don't think prior to David Letterman. Finding him and he would come on and do these bits in which he was like obviously shouting his lines reading from cue cards and it was it was kind of. I think you would've so you would have appreciated it. was kind of like oddball humor that totally fit in. With what like eight. Hoping you're gonNA talk about Super Dave because but yeah along those lines. Yeah Super Dave Osborne we can do all sorts of memory. Anyway so calvert forests character on that on the the original late night with David Letterman which aired on NBC was called? Larry Bud Melman because the writers. I thought that was funny. And he would come on and he'd be like Hi. I'm Larry but moment and then with like shout his lines from the CUE card I remember he did a like recurring occurring. Bit about Mr Larry's toast on a stick which was like weird. It's breads answer to the popsicle like with and it was just a popsicle obstacle stick stuffed into a piece of toast but in any event like so he had this kind of humor right and he would come on and do his bits. Well laid a fast forward early nineties. Johnny Carson Retires David. Letterman does not get. The job goes to Jay Leno and David Letterman moves from NBC NBC to CBS. Where show becomes the late show with David Letterman right now? Think of all the copyright. He does the exact same show on. CBS right because NBC does not own the idea of a guy interviewing people it does not own the concept of David David Letterman. Being goofy. It does not own any of that other stuff But when he brought over Calvert forest he brought him over whereas and now we go to that guy. NBC asserted and they didn't want to litigate for purposes poses a bit That they owned the character name. Larry Bud Melman has written for a scan. They would've also owned toast on a stick. which which you know was not that funny by nine hundred ninety four but was was hilarious? Nineteen eighty-three but you know it's there's a shelf life on toast related humor But so come back though. That's Moore's toast jokes. Everybody so yes so he could bring over. Calvert Forest Forest Calvert forest could repeat his stick of like you know reading cue cards kind of obviously but they couldn't call him Larry Bud Melman and and that I think is the answer to plus the sort of kind of interesting follow up question to what Josh Gad can do to speak count against Justin Walker Makoni Barrett Brad Kavanagh up. He can't do it as Olaf he can't do it in the OLAF voice without getting permission from the okay. So that's sorry. That's that's the main thing I want to know because so it sounds to me like there could be a difference between characters were. You're just doing your voice because honestly the Olaf Voice is pretty much just just got like. There's not a whole lot I don't he's not doing a different voice. It's just pretty much him. But if it's something like homer for Simpson or you know one of these characters where it's like. They're clearly putting on a voice and doing like a different voice to the character. Would that be different. You know because of Josh Gad. Just anytime Josh Gad is talking. He's being ill. It's toxic yeah And so what what Josh Gad would have to do right the way you you divide that line. Is You have to make very clear that you're not trying to have this come out of the mouth of OLAF as opposed to come out of the math the mouth of Josh Gad. And that's how you parse the the the what can often be of very very narrow distinction between right. Do you have to get Disney's these permission to use the Olav character. Yes you do because I at again it I am one hundred percent clear That if Disney went into court and said we own derivative rights over the Hypothetical Future Work Olaf rates federal justices. Right eight that that's crazy right like that. Obviously Disney has no intention of putting out like an old off themed legal podcast but but they could go into court with a straight face and we've talked about having Olaf rate various trump appointee so the we own that and the court would one hundred percents ruling Disney's favor and not just because they're Disney. They would rule in favor of of Disney. Because that's the law and so If that were the case right you would have to. You'd have to make it very clear you're speaking as Josh Gad. And not as OLAF which is how they can own the first part but not quote voice actors cover everything that they say with their our own voice into perpetuity and of quote. That's where the line is drawn. It is are you creating a derivative work that is owned by someone else or are you creating an original. You work because I was thinking about like the actor. Equivalent is just any actor anytime. They're talking they're talking like all basically all the characters they've done in movies unless it's it's like you know some unless he's Hugh Laurie mazing. Yeah but so that means the same thing would apply though so you know when Will Ferrell goes on some something so because he did. I think he did a whole La Kings broadcast as wrong. Ron Burgundy wants and so he had to have somebody's permission to do that. I sue you got yeah absolutely or in low and then might have been just a case of someone being like. Yeah go ahead so let me point out. I don't know how common this is in movie contracts But I know of at least one example in a baseball contract so I get to do a little bit of baseball You you could so suppose. You're a movie studio. I and I don't know you know but I don't know who put out the Romburg anger man But you could negotiate in particularly like. Let's say for the anchorman sequels. Right like you're like. I think they've got three right. I think there's one sequel. There's just too I know there's at least a second one. Yeah that one sequels what I said just once. Okay so suppose you're like look. We're doing the budgetary numbers anchorman into his clearly. Not GonNA produce as much income as anchorman one But we know from market research. It's going to it's going to cover its budget so long as we don't have to pay an unbelievable believable amount of money to will ferrell to come back so you might negotiate with will Farrell and say. Hey why don't you take a lesser salary in exchange for some some additional rights and one of the things the studio could do is say. Yeah and we'll give you the right to appear in create derivative works as Ron Burgundy and I think I think will Farrell is doing a Ron Burgundy podcast to. I don't know interesting so I don't know that that's in his contract but I know that there's nothing that would prevent them from putting that in his contract set. An example of that was the when the Orioles resigned. Cal ripken bright. He runs burgundies the Burgundy in they they put a really interesting clause in his contract and And it's it's one that I have not seen a team do sense And it is this watch TV and when you see a sports star appear in another advertisement for something else they will always appear in like casual athletic wear right. They will not appear in their team's uniform right because the team owns the name and likeness to to to to the uniform So the orioles granted cow. I think it was a limited time. I think it's since expired but as as part part of the compensation to him for resigning They they granted him the right to use the orioles logo and in colors in other commercials that he did without having to secure permission which means trusting the team right so in other words. All of your property pretty writes this this the the Graham takeaway from the segment Your when you own property rights even intangible intellectual property rights and stuff you own a giant bundle of rights. It's and those that that bundle can be broken out into separate sticks and you can sell part of it but not all of it I and have fun is. That's interesting now. I have have a bunch of baseball lock questions. I'll try to. I have to ask this though because I think it's interesting now. Wouldn't apply so much in baseball but it almost feels like this would be a clever salary. The recap work around you know so. Is there some rules about. If hockey has a salary cap for example I I assume he has. A hard has a soft salary cap. They have a luxury tax. axo Yeah Okay not important. I'll Anyway it is to me Dan Yeah But but for this question the point is like let's say you don't have a lot of CAP APP room you're trying to sign. We signed Eric Carlson or something. We we blow sharks blown their capra on that and one or two other people so we tried to sign someone like while. We don't have cap room but could we you know. Would you be able to grant some other benefit. That would kinda sidestep the salary cap number. I would assume there's got to be rules against us like you know anything of value it has to be somehow included in. But that makes me wonder so so. Let me give you the answer that I believe applies to to all sports but I. I'm only only confident that it applies in baseball because I I've actually litigated. This I've advised clients have appeared before Congress in in connection with us. So so. Here's The you think Major League Baseball and I believe all major. Sporting organizations Are The individual members are represented by a union right the Major League Baseball Players Association. NFL Players Union right so so the system is governed by collective bargaining and what that means is. There is a collective bargaining agreement between the players unions and the representatives for the for the sport In each sport and those collective bargaining sessions will produce form contracts that then have some ability ready to modify some of the terms so for example in baseball and again I believe in every sport there. There's a minimum you can't offer below at right and In in baseball for example you can offer. But you know you're gonNA offer more money right Which is unlike a lot of collective bargaining agreements? It's and in in Major League Baseball. You can offer incentives right but you can only offer very very specific kind of incentivized right. Yeah that makes sense. So yeah so the answer to if there was an incredibly valuable form of secondary of compensation compensation that allowed you to skirt. The salary CAP A there's some level of of indirect compensation that it is permitted but be If it was something that was clearly you know a a major fraction of the value of the contract. Then and that's something that the teams would. Yeah sure this kind of thing that someone would try it. They'd make a rule about it and you know it would have and then no more dogs playing bass. Yeah Eh. So so so. The answer is usually it is easier in C. B. as to To to define what you can Dan do as opposed to define what you can't do. So I suspect that you know the the way in which the that those agreements are now Formed in every sport right are sort of pretty narrowly tailored to say you know. Yeah not can also offer this in these kinds of circumstances and then it would just be sort of a simple question of Our media rights inner out and and I don't know the the answer to the current status of of whether they're interrupt but that's how that would play in professional sports. Well Andrew the wildcard segment looking a little iffy right. Yeah look look. You've got some bookies out there to now get on November We're going to our main segment. Finally but first a word from a sponsor here opening arguments is brought to you by policy genius. Hey it's December. It's we as I say on these ads. It's the holidays and as as much as we all love. The holidays can also be a bit stressful. 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You could save fifteen hundred or more a year by using policy genius to compare life life insurance policies. Once you apply the policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and the red tape and they don't just make life insurance easy they can also help you find the right home auto insurance or disability insurance so if you need life insurance but aren't sure where to start why not start at policy genius Dot Com. It only takes as a few minutes to find the right life insurance policy to apply and cross another thing off your to do list policy genius when it comes to life insurance. It's nice to get it right right to okay Andrew. How did this segment is? How depressed should we be super depressed and more depressed than that? Okay Cool Dun Dun House the Supreme Court effing us this time really really badly. So lots of folks have written in about the Supreme Court allowing a Kentucky Law requiring mandatory mandatory medically unnecessary ultrasounds and required disclosure To stand That's true and we're going to break take down just how bad this decision is. But it's worse than you think because of the dynamics of of what happened here here and this is really an. It's why WanNa front-load this because this is the opinion part And then you know we'll get to the undeniable facts of the situation. So Oh my opinion. This law is blatantly unconstitutional. It is a no brainer that it is unconstitutional. Constitutional and it is a two one activist decision by the sixth circuit upholding its constitutionality which puts puts. Unfortunately those of us who were on the side of reproductive health those of us who are on the liberal side on any of these legal issues in and a double bind before the Supreme Court which is as follows There are four liberal justices on on the Supreme Court. They could have granted cert in this case because to grant of Surrey as Oh a listeners know requires only four votes so we can and get these cases before the Supreme Court. And if you're looking at it going so I don't understand if the law is super bad and which it it is and definitely unconstitutional and the six circuit was definitely wrong which it was Why wouldn't the court grant cert and reverse and and the answer is because the howler monkey contingent on the Supreme Court does not care what the law is and they are it is? This is one one hundred percent clear to me that Ruth Bader Ginsburg or whomever you know. Elena Kagan went to John. Robertson said Hey if we grant cert in this case how how likely are you to side with the right wing and Robert said Area Likely Super Super Duper. Have you ever read any of my opinion. You didn't even handle who. I am an abortion. You don't really have to. Yeah you know who I am And and and and I just I wanna I wanNA play this out in emphasize the a political and pragmatic implications before we delve into. Just how bad this case. So so. Here's the double bind the way in which the Supreme Court's Liberal Wing went was to say all right. Well then we're not going to touch this case. We're not going to touch this case because we're terrified that if we we do. The Supreme Court will use it as a vehicle to overturn Roe v Wade but the problem in just saying you know you might sit back and go. Okay okay. Well you're if you're a law student in sort of gaming it out and you're like okay well like that's then checkmate right like they can't they. Don't take these cases and we won't overturn Roe v Wade and the reason that it's a double bind is because that means the sixth circuit opinion. Stand yeah this. Law goes into effect and thousands of immediate Patients are affected in Kentucky and potentially millions of women and those who may become pregnant will be affected in the states that are governed by the sixth circuit. Not Not not to mention you know the gateway in and you know dozens of other conservative states. That are going to pass identical laws even though this law is blatantly unconstitutional the deterrent. We've not not talked about this before like we've talked about the dynamic of the Supreme Court you know being five four with John Roberts occasionally having having a A tiny particle shame. That's true that has a tremendous deterrent effect on any political issue. Where the facts are really really bad But you don't think however bad the facts are however bad the underlying law is. You don't think you're GONNA be able to to push i John Roberts right so in other words for us to have a positive outcome at the Supreme Court in the next forever Unless there's a structural change is going to require not only a monumentally terrible decision below but a decision decision so bad. It doesn't trigger John Roberts's innate very conservative political ideology. Right like you know we. We don't emphasize this enough. And I don't want us to to to fall into the trap that you know. A bunch of mainstream media sources are falling into of saying just because John Roberts has this limits does not mean he is not a doctrinaire hard core conservative on social issues and those social issues shoes. Very plainly include religious issues including abortion. So I I want you to understand how bad it is from it. That that that that there is this over that this was a really good illustration of the chilling effect of The the courts. left-wing is terrified lied to take up a case that they know that ninety five percent of legal scholars would say this case is a slam dunk. The other way EH Because it's not in our court and that's that's the America we live in. That's a crisis. We face in the next presidential administration now so now that I thoroughly early depressed you let me back up. Let me back that up with evidence and talk about this law and and talk about Just how bad it is so this is Kentucky Aqui. Revised Statutes Care S. three eleven point seven twenty-seven which follows in the Post Planned parenthood versus versus Casey format of You Know Casey said that if you are pregnant You have the right to an abortion so long as the state it does not place an undue burden on that right and so what pro-lifers have been doing is trying to burden as much as possible double the exercise of that right without a court and go as far up to the line as they can without a court calling that burden quote undo and here here is what the statute requires says And again I'm reading the gendered language from the statute so Trying to avoid that in this discussion here But but the the law is written the way the law's written so prior to woman giving informed consent to having any part sort of an abortion performed put a pin in that the physician who is to perform the abortion or qualified technician to whom the responsibility has been delegated by the physician shall a perform an obstetric ultrasound on the pregnant woman be provide a simultaneous explanation of of what this ultrasound is depicting which shall include the presence and location of the unborn child within the uterus. Again this is is a real law passed in Kentucky Unborn child is not a legal term and should not be present in a statute but whatever and the number of unborn children depicted and also if the ultrasound image indicates that fetal demise has occurred inform the woman of that fact see display the ultrasound images so that the pregnant woman may view the images and de escalate that means listen with the stethoscope And and and make an and make audible the fetal heartbeat of the unborn child so that the pregnant woman may hear the heartbeat if the heartbeat is a is a is audible e provide medical description description of the ultrasound images which shall include the dimensions of the embryo or fetus and the presence of external members and internal organs if present viewable and death retain in the women's medical record sign certification assigned certification from the pregnant woman that she has been presented with the information required to be provided and has viewed the ultrasound images. Listen to the heartbeat if the heartbeat is audible or declined to do so the sign certification shall be in a form prescribed by the cabinet that is by up. Yep So this. Is Somebody working at planned. Parenthood right somebody who believes sincerely in the right to choose news working with a patient who has requested an abortion is now compelled by law to do these six things right to do to to perform an obstetric. That isn't invasive ultrasound. Right to narrate all of these details about the fetus in a form prescribed by law. That is they have to follow a particular form To they they must display and make audible the ultrasound ultrasound and the images to their patient and then you know engage in this medical description. Listen all of this. I want to read the way in which this was described in the cert petition. And here WANNA give it a trigger warning upfront. I'd I don't think this is a graphic and violent but but but I'm going to talk about the way in which this was characterized before the court and so if you're squeamish about about describing the procedures related to An invasive obstetric ultrasound. You Might WanNa skip ahead About a minute. This is how how this law works in practice. And again this from the cert petition. So the petitioners our medical health organizations right petitioners performance ultrasound on all patients before providing abortion abortion care consistent with established medical practice offer every patient the option of seeing the ultrasound image and discussing with their provider unstated. Many patients do not wish to view the ultrasound right. They have made a medical decision. And you're trying to talk them out of it by saying well look at how much it looks like a little baby. Going back to the Sur petition. The Act challenged here transforms the standard medical practice into a pure or speech mandate under the act. The physician must display and provide a graphic description of the ultrasound image. The physician must convey these specific specific words images and sounds to the patient even if they do not want to see or hear them and even if they tried to physically resist them as a result of the law while the patient patient is half naked on the exam table with their feet in stirrups usually with an ultrasound probe inside their vagina. The physician has to keep talking to them showing them images and describing those images even as they try to close their eyes and cover their ears to avoid the speech the Commonwealth characterizes. This is part part of informed consent but it is not the most obvious tell. Is that under the act. The patient has provided informed consent even when they have not seen or heard the images are description shen so long as the physician has read the mandatory script a law that requires a physician to keep speaking. Even though her words do not inform. Anyone of anything is not an informed. Consent provisions and indeed the Act is flatly inconsistent with the tradition of informed. Consent which precludes doctors forcing information on patients in this manner and requires doctors actors to respect not run roughshod over their patients autonomous choices. That's the law. That was just upheld in the sixth circuit and over which the Supreme Court declined to grant search Aurora even though It is flatly unconstitutional. How how am I so confident that it is flatly unconstitutional in an age? In which you know who knows what constitutes an undue burden Because this case has already been litigated. Five years ago went to the fourth circuit in a case called Stewart versus Chemnitz and these cases are being characterized as free speech cases compelled speech cases and not abortion abortion cases. Not because this is not about unduly burdening abortion it is one hundred percent if you read me out. Let's say this is a free speech case on abortion in case They are wrong right there. That's that's a surface level analysis. That doesn't apply here But as a matter of legal tactic tactic because determining what constitutes an undue burden is a is a foundation that has been consistently eroded for the past twenty five years in our courts instead. These cases have gone with the much stronger footing of. Hey the government can't don't intervene in a medical procedure and tell the doctor that they have to say stuff that is unrelated to that medical procedure right in particular right. This is the the binding precedent. Here's the law under the First Amendment. If you have a regulation Shen that forces a physician to say something. That's subject to heightened scrutiny unless you're forcing them to say something that is part of the practice of medicine right so in other words you can require that doctors convey truthful full non-ideological nonpartisan information as part of regulating the practice of medicine. That's not compelled speech. That doesn't get heightened the scrutiny right but the key term is what constitutes the practice of medicine a regulation that affects physicians nations speech. And I'm reading here from the descent and the circuit receives deferential review only when that speeches auxiliary to a medical practice right in other words as the descent says when the state regulates the content of physician speech in a manner that is inconsistent with the practice of medicine. Addison we must apply heightened scrutiny full stop and I would add that. The viewpoint discrimination which also invokes heightened scrutiny clearly applies right. This is a political issue that the state is weighing in on one side and they are requiring abortion providers to read need a pro-life script that is super duper obvious that that violates not only the if not only does that overly burden a patient's right to undergo an abortion But it very clearly violates the First Amendment it is the government preferring one kind of speech that is anti abortion unborn child listened to its little baby heartbeat Over another kind of speech and and the First Amendment says you can't do that the sixth circuit says you can and the Supreme Court has now let that stamp. I was already pre depressed from the beginning said I. Where do I go from here? Even more met yet. Look you should be even more mad Because this is something and again. The only solution in in cases like this is grassroots activism right is ensuring that legislators are held accountable and look this Kentucky Matt Bevin was just voted out in Kentucky and I get he was voted out for a whole bunch of complex reasons but this was one of his signature accomplishments and when the Supreme Court denied Cert- you know he was out there tweeting about how wonderful this was so you know it it sucks. We should not be in a position. Shen that We have to take out in terms of grassroots activism Protecting a person's right to choose news So yeah I guess so. We talked about in the past how it was likely that we were never going to get a case striking down row. Oh because it's just not worth it for conservatives to do that it's way more sinister for them to just effectively. Get rid of row while always saying like well so it still applies. But but we're you know carving it back and carving it back to the point where it becomes meaningless right so tactically. That was what we always said was probably going to happen. been because it's the most Competent evil thing and the when it comes to certain people certain evil people are incompetent but unfortunately people like like bill bar and and and Conservatives on the Supreme Court are actually pretty competent in doing so. That was going to happen now. I didn't consider this though which was it? Sounds like an even more annoying way to get this horrible. You know anti women's rights Stuff to to be an effect is to just win. There's a I guess it would depend on the circuit that you're in but when there's a circuit court that is conservative. They can just do a bad ruling. That essentially ignores the rights that women should have and then the Supreme Court doesn't even have to validate. It just has to knock grant cert because we're in some hostage situation where we're afraid that if you know the liberals are grants are then row will be undone so the Conservatives. Chris can just be like all right. We won't grant cert and the conservative circuit court just gets to effectively control everything in rule however they want in the loss dance. Yeah that's exactly right and the your analogy of hostage situation. Is I think a better one than my lack of analogy. Elegy start this segment. That's exactly what it is. The the howler monkey contingent knowing that John Roberts will vote with them. You know nine times out of ten on and classic right wing political issues Is Holding that hostage in terms of in terms of encouraging the courts liberal wing to pass over blatant errors of law that have a real meaningful handful deleterious effect on the real lives of real people. I do not blame the health organizations for seeking cert in this case right their job is to their clients and their patients and they are trying to do everything they can even if it is a You know losing effort to To overturn terrible law. And that's not their job is to is to represent the interests of of their patients You can see the the the members of the supreme. I mean. There's no other way to explain this other than the left wing on the Supreme Court getting together and saying Gosh we we. You gotTA fight our own holding actions here and fundamentally again I you know uncle clearances long since turned out this episode because this has been a pretty solidly You Know Pure Cure. left-wing propaganda episode. But but if you tuned back here but maybe maybe they want to do a victory lap heatless affect you're listening or you're doing your victory lap. I'll I'll just say it to you like this the fact that the Supreme Court is engaging in that kind kind of calculus should dismay and upset you right that that's one hundred percent urine originalist one hundred percent with the founding fathers did not want to have happened was for the Supreme Court to to break up into factions and for the justices on both sides to be calculating. How do we minimize the damage that this activist contingent wants to do by taking cases and overturning precedent? And that's where we are what so. What is the best thing that we can do? I mean it's just a question of in these states trying to get this legislation to either not happen or be overturned. Is that all we can do. And that's not a lot to go on for some of these deep red states where you know chances are slim is there a is. The other pattern is the Kansas Supreme Court decision that we talked about from last year which is Bringing challenges to state laws in State Court alleging. That's not what happened so this was so oh great question. This case was initially filed in federal court. Now look there are a lot of reasons to want to do that from from a strategic dietrich perspective. Okay that that can't go through all in the segment I don't fault the lawyers for bringing this case in federal court but I will say State Court in when you're in these very very conservative circuits You may also have You know get the Kentucky State. Supreme Court has like I don't know Kentucky. Appellate courts are like Ach probably guess We could you know talk to some of our friends out. There rejected Shelly Henry from the Ha so so you have to make it a calculated decision about where you want to file the lawsuit. But I will point out that we one unexpected victories in places. It's like Kansas. So I think it's fair to say it this way up until five years ago if you were. A civil rights litigator challenging legislation. Elation you brought those challenges in federal court and I would say now that just as a matter of course right because the habits of court because of the relative compositions of the respective bench for a lot of different reasons and what I would say is i. Don't I'm not in your field. I'm I'm not trying to usurp the judgment of experts but I would put on in the toolbox. You know reconsider maybe is a State Court Suit may be the best vehicle for For resolving this This decision That there's another vehicle if you're you're already in federal court one of the things that you can do and this is I'll I'll try not to do too long in the sidebar but you know I I do want something other than just. It's bad ad. It's bad it's bad it's bad it's bad so so I love you asking the question If you're stuck in a terrible circuit one of the things that we've talked about is that you can get into federal court on the basis of diversity jurisdiction and also on the basis of pendant jurisdiction And that means sometimes federal federal courts are adjudicating questions of state statutory law or State Constitutional Law and. There's nothing wrong with that right. The law says that that we we presume that federal courts are good at that right in federal judges the exception of the recent spate of trump appointees are supposed to be supremely qualified and smart. And you know capable of of applying state law but there is a vehicle in every state that says you can N- file a certified question to the State Supreme Court and the reason you file a certified question is when a federal court when the litigants in in federal courts. Say you know what This isn't super clear. In our law. It would be a matter of first impression and rather than have a federal court. Assuming what Kansas are. Kentucky Law is Why don't we just ask the Kentucky Supreme Court instead right when we say to them be totally straightforward? Be like. Look there are some law that says this. There's some law that says not ex- sponsored for us And this is. This is one of the exceptions to the you know the the law does not render a junior Katori opinions. This is an exception and it and it and it is a specific exception that allows courts to render an advisory opinion. That says okay in the opinion of this court the answer to the question you have. Certified to us is X.. And so I would say that. That's another tool that I would. I would add to the toolbox. You realize you're about to get homered in the sixth circuit and you have a discrete issue of Kentucky Constitutional Law Petition Petition. The court To certify the question to the Kentucky Supreme Court Again these may be low probability. outcomes uh-huh but But they are. There's something you can do so So I throw that out there as well all right. Well thanks for that advice. I mean uh you blew it. There's no time for the wild card segment. But that's okay. That's fine worthwhile. It's an evergreen question will push to the next wildcard. 'cause we've got still more to do which is Mainly that we need to thank our top patrons are hall of famers are all time greats on top patron Tuesday from Patriots Dot com slash law. Going again a lot of movies Christmas theme coming at you very soon in fact may already be up by the time you're hearing in this but If not very close to that so here we go. Let's think our Beijing's let me be totally clear. I like Seattle shows Ian Buckley. Jim Gerald Chapin's Wang Dang in the team Adam Larsson up and at the up an atom the Kirsten Daniel. This Christmas adopt a Republican and change their mind on impeachment Choo Choo Choo Choo Choo Choo Choo Choo chugging Chug a checker. That's about a year after we had the great chug Chug a chichi debate But I like that someone got around to reversing. I think that one Murray Gregson Hillary Twenty twenty number one supporter Miranda devine lawful copter amber green stand with Kashmir. Can we get assert to appeal. All of Thomas's incorrect. T. Three be a answers Yes we can unionize the tech industry Seattle or Portland live show. I'll bring the Scotch Uncle Clarence. Ub is attacks on illegal immigration. And you get a rebate. I think they're trying to pitch you be I to conservatives but I I get. There's already ready. You know a a pretty strong easy ground for pitching EUBOEA conservatives. You not the light uncle clearance. Yeah I see I see what they're doing. They're okay Mr flippable and the taint team using using heck's vision to stop trump Portland live show. He will he will not be overthrown pause for effect Rab. They're trying to do the same thing. We do for conner angles Circle Freudian face. Plant the Raleigh live show will have the Senator Dick Bar exam what everything is in place for the protests. Camacho time-line Hashtag gatorade stocks. Yep puget huge. It sound exports for Seattle craft beer. No a live show off. That sounds great all Emily Rainbow Spence Alexa play regulate by Elizabeth Warren G. Gee unprecedented resented demented president. defenestrate did Jason Kompass elect elect Julio Castro for science the first president with a control twin. That's funny Marcus. Volunteers to be Andrews sous-chef for the Raleigh Platinum night. Yeah we'll we'll see if that happens then yeah Michael blevins running for Senate to replace Joni Ernst. Oa Three twenty five looking forward to the Atlantis live show on maritime so set a hotspur dot com is allergic to treason just intolerant shout. Shout out to the estrogen forums. 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The howler monkey theory. The of legal interpretation is pretextual. Ism Milo meed songs suggests the chief complaint podcast help. I think I'm being followed by an Australian. ooh Watch out. They're sneaky excited about the Melbourne live. Show that's actually on the whiteboard. Our Favorite Karaoke legend COSMO Blues News. Join your labor union together we bargain alone. We Beg okay low here. I don't know that you're going to get that to go. Okay boomer but uh we'll take it Arthur. Considering a third shed Jackson James Call Fifteen flushes. And what do you get only two articles of impeachment. It is meant to be a fifteen tons of kind of mash up that anyway I like it. Well I I. There was trump's unhinged rant about how many times people flushing toilets visit that. Oh yeah that there was that but I think it's mixed in with the Was Tennessee Ernie Ford fifteen tonnes oh anyway This podcast is an English right combined. Fructose Kerala he gave me those sweet sweet till's anonymous Chicago live show will professionally Sherpa. An injury shift knives but cups legal services offering two for the price of one discount on prenups. Okay eight three one cat law one. Mr Trillo was the greatest Russian Yodeler. We both agree on that. Yeah closing concessions Sessions word origins dot. Org Your source for legal terms from Thirteenth Century Saxony. It's a yellow stairmaster and it never gets hired to. They are voting out articles of impeachment. Like as you listen to this So it does get higher. Lamar Jackson is my shepherd. I shall not want good for you. Derrick congrats to the two thousand nineteen. MLS Cup champion champion. Seattle sounders are Denver live show. We'll have hot attorney on witness action. Well probably Sherpa is bad but at least it's not Crayon Crayon. I don't try agree with that. Actually Sam Buck big easy. Blasphemy David in Brooklyn a string of on podcast limited domain fraud under the expert. The look on Nunez's faces my favorite look on anyone's face ever good morning Camp Quest Lak- Chandler Abacus Flinch Soggy Pants Greg Sullivan Matthew Vernon adopt a homeless Patna pose decline in ear docking. Don't take ramp building advice from podcast. Heather Loveridge as always SAM now. Sakashita knows was by now if everything is your team effort forever you might Jeremiah Platinum tickets to the Chicago alive show in an alley. Dan Ariza. Sorry Eli Bosniak. Alexandra Chalupa Aka Natasha contract savvy. I was born to be wild but only until about ten. NPR maybe eleven tops Mitchell. The next patron lies. Conrad Michaels is alive. Much cake. Well that means that's true. I agree with that that a hundred percent and then that leads to our all-time great and I think this this flu. That was a a legitimate. SYLLOGISM are all time the number one grade. Conrad got a nice streak. There the last Through for patrons that's great all right. Thanks so much folks and now it is time to find out the answer to last week's bar exam question here. WE GO T- through. Can I get back on that. Saddle no socially. This firm has ever failed the bar exam. Talk to the hand I need you close. That's one of my mission parameters. Trust me I know. Now why you cry okay. So this was a homeowner who concealed a water damage in the roof walked her perspective buyer through the house was Didn't say anything but then without discovering the water damage or the leaking roof and without consulting lawyer. The buyer immediately agreed in writing to buy the home for two hundred thousand dollars but in between signing the contract and closing. which by the way sidebar? You'd ask the question about Closing in the last I would you when you were answering the question and it. It's just this. The law recognizes that there are some contracts that you want to sign in and have become binding at a at one point in time. But you don't have all the information until a different point in time and so you will have an and again. Usually this is in the sale of real estate but it can also be like in the transfer of a business for example right like so. You'll say hey. We agree in principle to the X. and then we're going to close on why and closing Literally again from the real estate. Meant like you know you get out you turn over the key. Everything is all completely done But it's not a situation where the parties are up in the air in between having agreed to the contract act and taking possession of the property or or the business make sense. I I still know sorry. Well here's the thing. What is in effect at the closing date? That's not in effect when you sign the or you know or like we'll because there may be things that you have to discover right so so again. The house is a is a perfect example like you may say. Hey we're going to buy this house for a two hundred thousand dollars subject to it passing inspection right you sign the contract. Then you don't know if it passes inspection you that you're the your rights are indeterminate in that in that interim period and then at closing you're like I look you passed inspection therefore contractors valid. We go forward So the idea is in a contract. You've heard me talk about the traditional elements of contract are offer acceptance consideration and the acceptance acceptance must be of the offer word for word and so. If there are things that are indefinite you will sometimes agree and then sort of put in contingencies. He's and then have a closing. So that's I think the best I can do in in sort of a short period So before the closing date buyer discovers the water damage and says Oh look there's twenty thousand dollars with the water damage. You know F that I'm out of here and I'm not going through with buying this house. Homeowner than Susan was like dude. We had a contract. Are they likely to prevail. You narrowed it down to one. Yes and one no answer You're no answer was no because the homeowner concealed sealed stuff right. There was evidence of water damage and a leaking roof and they painted over. It seems pretty plausible to me. Dear yes answer Yes because the buyer acted unreasonably by failing failing to employ an inspector to conduct an independent inspection of the home So I ultimately went with be which I'm pleased to tell you the correct answer. The law is reasonable. Like you can't it's it's fraud when you It's a IT'S A. It's a fraudulent misrepresentation of a material. In fact when you paint over something And you know you're trying to hide something you know to be the case right. I know you might have been tempted with thirteenth century. Sorry Saxony like let the buyer beware when like even a common law like. You can't hide stuff. This is why we will not do the The the Classic Terrible Tom Hanks Goldie Hawn movie Goldie Hawn Anyway. Yeah right because like this list all all of that is like you. You buy the money then you go back and you're like wait. I'm invalidating this purchase It's just awful movies thirty-seven free before are you all with a lot less work for me so when you when you are affirmatively misrepresenting the facts even at common law. Aw that's a fraud and the buyer gets to rescind the contract. Well I nailed it. Thanks Andrew finally back Back off the Schneider as they. They say in hockey for some reason. I don't know what that means. But okay one one in a row so all streak starting Yup all right well. I'm excited free to hop into your often. Malfunctioning time machine and tell us who this week's big winner of T3's in the hall of Justice. Thomas this week's winner is at books that burn on twitter who writes. My answer is B.. No because the homeowner concealed evidence of the leaking roof in the water damage from the buyer if it had not been painted and the buyer merely didn't notice an obvious water stain. The homeowner might be fine but it would still be shady eighty. Well congratulations on getting it. Exactly right for exactly the reason. It is the active Act of concealment that causes the correct. Answer be here so everyone give books that burn follow on twitter again. That is at books that burn be. Okay S. T. H.. ATP You you are in a podcast reviewing fictional depictions of trauma in bucks. Congratulations on being this. All right thanks so much for listening adding. Thanks most of all to our patrons again a lot of movies Christmas edition sign on Patriot Dot com slash law. It's worth it. You can listen to all the old ones too. It's great all right. We will see you folks on Friday for the as usual rapid response law law. Uh this has been opening arguments with Andrew and Thomas if you love the show and want to support future episodes. Please visit our patriarch page at Patriot Dot com slash law. If you can't support financially it'd be a big help if you could leave us a five star review. I tuned stitcher. Or whatever podcast delivery vehicle US and be sure to tell all are your friends about it for questions suggestions and complaints. Email us at open arguments at gmail.com. The show notes and links on our website at www dot open dot com. Be Sure to like our page on facebook and on twitter at open ARCS until next A in this podcast is production of opening arguments media. LLC All rights reserved opening arguments is a copyrighted rated production of opening arguments media LLC. All rights reserved opening arguments is produced with the assistance of our editor. Brian Regan Hagan our transcriptionist Heather Leverage Production Assistant Ashley Smith and with the generous assistance of of our volunteer unofficial researcher. Deborah Smith special thanks to Theresa Gomez who runs our merchant our live shows and also heads up the Oh wicky project follow them at a wicky and a big thank you to our facebook group moderators moderators. Emily Waters Elisha. Cook Eric Brewer Natalie. Brian and Theresa check out the opening arguments community on facebook. And finally thanks to Thomas Smith for creating the fabulous Oh a theme song which is used with permission.
Airlines Take Desperate Measures to Stay Aloft
"Social distancing slows the spread of corona virus. So stay a minimum of six feet away from others and stay home if you can more info at Corona Virus Dot Gov. Let's all do our part because we're all Hashtag alone together. Brought to you. By the AD Council how airlines one of the hardest hit industries are coming to terms with the pandemic. The really preparing for it to last for months could continue to affect their operations while the summer. Maybe beyond a recovery could be very slow and nation's courts are starting to look a lot like your work meetings just the other day. The Kansas Supreme Port for instance held its first argument by Zoom. There may be some glitches One justice was seen sitting on a couch at her home. But you know they found a way to make it work plus tackling your questions about the corona virus. It's Monday April thirteenth. I'm Ameri for totally for the Wall Street Journal. Here's what's news. The spread of the corona virus appears to be slowing down in the US. Thanks to widespread mitigation efforts. Some officials have been cautiously optimistic. That the number of new infections could be hitting a plateau in New York. The hardest hit state governor. Andrew Cuomo said he governors in neighboring states would coordinate on a plan to start easing isolation rules and slowly increased economic activity. We should start looking forward to reopening quote unquote but reopening with a plan and the smart plan. Because if you do it wrong it can backfire. And we've seen that in other places on the globe. Meanwhile president trump today tweeted that the federal government not governors would make the final decision about reopening. The states governors have broad authority over. Stay at home orders and school closures. It's unclear how or whether the Federal Government could override those orders a sailor from the US aircraft carrier. Theodore Roosevelt died from Kobe. Nineteen today a written plea about the corona virus outbreak on the Roosevelt led to the removal of the ship's captain by the Acting Navy secretary who later resigned. The navy now says four other crew members have been hospitalized and at least five hundred eighty five have tested positive for the virus the largest outbreak in the US military. For Months Senator Bernie Sanders dropped out of the Democratic presidential race. Last week has formally endorsed vice president. Joe Biden during a livestream with Biden Sanders urged voters of all political affiliations. To back him to defeat president trump tornadoes and severe thunderstorms tore through several southern states on Sunday and early Monday destroying homes and killing at least nineteen people of those Mississippi reported eleven deaths and declared a state of emergency about a million households and businesses in the region. Were without power this afternoon. Including about half a million. In the Carolinas we report that Amazon will resume shipping non essential items from third party sellers later this week. Amazon has been prioritizing. Essential shipments like cleaning and healthcare products and a shelf stable food for nearly a month. The company has been inundated with orders as people shelter in place and has been struggling to keep up on Monday. The company said it would hire seventy five thousand new workers on top of the one hundred thousand employees. It's hired over the past month. Mocks JER provides businesses with their own client interaction APP for today's digital age. Your Apple Be. One-stop hub keeping your clients and continuous connection with your business from anywhere manage your team to effectively respond clients all from within your APP. Get Your one stop at extra dot com not being able to meet. Demand has been issued for Amazon. But not so much for the airline industry. Us carriers have cut about seventy percent of their capacity. This month and fear more cuts could still be coming. Carriers have gotten some direct aid from the government. But they're still struggling for cash joining me now from Chicago with more details on how airlines are trying to stay. Afloat is Wall Street Journal reporter Alison CIDER SO Alison. There are a few ways that the airline industry is trying to stay afloat here including getting money from the federal government and working with banks to trade in miles. Can you explain each of those airlines for the government in March and proposed a fifty billion dollar aid package that would have been a combination of grants and loans and when the two trillion dollar cares act was passed? They ended up getting pretty much everything that they had asked for. And they've spent the last couple of weeks in are working with the Treasury Department and which finally came to them with some of the specific terms for the grant money last weekend they spent the weekend negotiating with Treasury. You know trying to figure out some conditions on those grants and you know if everyone agrees that some of that money could start falling pretty quickly on the private side. They've also been working with banks raising billions of dollars in new loans and they've had to mortgage their planes and routes and gates and all kinds of assets and are now we've reported that airlines including united and Delta have held talks with their credit card partners to talk about selling frequent flyer miles in bulk to get some cash now. The airline industry was among the first to really face a hard head from the corona virus pandemic as countries began restricting travel and now travel is obviously very limited because of it. What can you tell us about the situation now? It sounds like airlines are looking to do more things to kind of patch this period over. What can you tell us about the state of the industry so the situation for airlines now is that there's really almost no demand for travel between travel restrictions and stay at home orders and recommendations from the government. Almost nobody is traveling west. They really have to so. Airlines are still operating lots of flights because they have to maintain certain level of central service. It's of their agreement to receive. Government aid by a lot of those flights are pretty empty. They're things that are doing to sort of make travel safer for crews and passengers and also set minds at ease like cleaning the planes really thoroughly more often taking steps to encourage social distancing like blocking off middle seats and boarding from the back of the plane to the fronts and some of those are things that might survive when people start flying again if those are still things that passengers are concerned about. And I know we've been told that airlines plan to keep up with these enhanced cleaning measures. What their feedback. They're getting is that. People are really focused on cleanliness. Right now listen. Let's look good. Oh worst case scenario here. If an airline word ago Boston what are some of the ripple effects that could be felt throughout the industry and even beyond history serves as something of a guide here but not in terms of pandemic like the One? We're dealing with right now. So airline executives have said that this pandemic is really really unique and unlike anything that they've ever experienced just the swiftness and the depth of the fall off into manned is really unlike anything they've seen and they're really preparing for it to last for months you know. It could continue to affect their operations. While it's summer may be beyond recovery could be very slow that said airlines have a really tumultuous history and you know a lot of the airline that we know today have been cobbled together through decades of mergers and many have been through bankruptcy at least once maybe several times. So you know it is possible if there were if airlines remain under remained distress for for more months and their carriers that do go into bankruptcy it is possible they continue to keep operating as a consumer. You might not really experienced much of a difference but for for airline employees. Knew the impact could be really huge. If things don't improve they might have to lay off. Large percentage of their staff may might have to curtail some of their service. Send an stopped flying to all the places that they had planned to fly or expand as quickly as they'd wanted to expand so it could be something that people feel that way that's Wall Street Journal. Reporter Alison cider joining me from Chicago. Thanks so much. Alison thank you. You've probably been spending a lot of time on zoom or one of the other teleconference apps over the past few weeks for work or even just to spend time with friends and family. Well the nation's top judges going digital to the US Supreme Court says the justices will begin hearing oral arguments by teleconference in. May It will make a live audio. Feed available to the news media. Several state supreme courts have already done this and Wall Street Journal. Supreme Court correspondent. Just braven joins me now with the details. Just this is certainly a break from tradition for the Supreme Court. How unusual is a move like this to hold oral arguments via teleconference? This is really an extraordinary moment for the Supreme Court which generally has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Twentieth Century And the twenty first century is a whole other matter. This court has been far behind many other appellate courts including the State Supreme Courts Including the federal appeals courts in trying to make their proceedings more accessible to the public. That's generally the reason. Those other courts have taken steps to webcast or broadcast their hearings or allow people to dial hand to listen to oral arguments. This is not something they're doing. In order to promote transparency. This is really a matter of necessity and is probably the least aggressive steps. They could take without simply canceling arguments. Altogether in light of public health orders to follow social distancing and avoid interpersonal contact to stop the the spread of this of this terrible pandemic. So we don't know where this will lead. Perhaps they will find this. Half step is an as useful or as valuable as Conducting arguments by zoom just the other day the Kansas Supreme Court for held its first argument by Zoom. There may be some glitches. One justice was seen sitting on a couch at her home. You know they've found a way to make it work. It's possible that the Supreme Court of the United States may upon reflection find. They should just go all the way with cameras. A or maybe not as an expert I interviewed said time will tell and there are a couple of big cases on the Supreme Court's docket. Which cases is this likely to impact the most significant ones? We'd have to say are three cases that will be argued together involving president trump's financial records and Those cases involve some things. Perhaps they sound like ancient history now but They involve in part the hush money payments that the president's company paid to two women who said they had extramarital affairs with him. He's denied that but those cases will be interesting to hear the argument and certainly when the court ultimately decides we'll be paying very close attention. In addition to that there are some cases that are of importance as well. There is a follow up case to the affordable care act involving whether the accommodations that the trump administration has made to some religious organizations. Go too far. These religious groups have employees. They don't WanNa pay for contraceptive coverage and the lower courts found that the administration didn't Properly apply the law and made it too easy for these groups to deny contraceptive coverage to their women employees whether that holds up or not is before the court then. There is a pair of cases of that pertain directly to the presidential election. That we'll see November. They have to do with whether a presidential election were. That is somebody who is a member of the Electoral College. Who is the person who people actually are voting for? They think voting for president in November. But actually what they are doing is selecting an electoral for who will go cast a ballot for a candidate for president. That's of the Electoral College works. Most states require electors to vote in accord with the popular vote in their state in the last election. Some electors attempted to defy that and cast votes for different candidates whether they have a constitutional right to do that is before the Supreme Court. That decision could have an impact on. Who IS PRESIDENT NEXT YEAR? If it is a very close election and a handful of electoral votes make up the difference. Three very important cases and the other ones are significant as well. They chose From their docket ones that probably are the most important Yet to be decided Wall Street Journal Supreme Court correspondent. Just braven joining me from Washington. Thank you so much you bet emery. And finally you've been sending us your questions about the Corona Virus End. Our reporters and experts have some answers. Today's listener question comes from Aaron. Graph in Boise Idaho their between the people that survive or the people that are hit hardest by the crow virus and their blood times. We reached out to Dr Alexi Wagner emergency physician at Stanford University. This is a very exciting question. That's coming up as everyone knows. We're learning more and more information about this virus every day. They're more and more studies that are coming out and so this idea of the Kobe. Nineteen virus being associated with your Abo. Blood type is an important one to consider in it. Really stemmed from study out of China looked at twenty one hundred patients who had co virus and compared their blood type distribution to a match sample of noncovic Pasta patients. But it's really important to remember that this was a single study. It was not pure reviewed in so we can't jump to any conclusions about it but it did potentially show or relationship that people with certain blood types may be at lower risk of contracting the disease or the vice versa at higher risk in particularly Potentially being type O blood type would be protective too. The Cobra virus. We do know that that blood type is impact like does have relationship to other viruses such as the norovirus. It's very clear that It it does interact with receptor an gut That's similar to the blood type. Antigen and so patients with certain blood types are at increased risk of getting disease than others. Do you have a chronic virus question? Leave us a voicemail at three one five nine nine. Two eight two nine eight. That number is also in the show description. We'll try to answer as many of your questions as we can. And that's what's news this Monday afternoon. If you like our show please rate and review US wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back tomorrow in both the morning and the afternoon. I'm Anne Marie for totally for the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for listening.
Legal Docket, Episode 8:Reasonable Searches
"From World Radio and the team that brings you the world and everything in it. This is the legal docket podcast. In the nine hundred, Ninety, seven, movie liar liar actor Jim. Carrey plays a lawyer named Fletcher Reid he's got a problem a character flaw. He's a liar. He even lies about why he didn't show up for his own son's birthday party. That FIB was just too much for his son. Who makes a wish he wishes his dad would have to go one whole day telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, not a single lie either by comission or by omission. In Fletcher reads typical haste in life he drives through town violating traffic rules Galore. Soon he's pulled over an officer asks him a question and because of his sons wish Fletcher read has to answer truthfully. Hawaiian pulls you over depends on how long you were following me. Why don't we just take it from the? Here coups sped. Paul too closely I ran a stop sign I almost hit a Chevy I spent some more failed to yield at a crosswalk I changed lanes the intersection I changed lanes without signalling while running a red light me. Is that all. I have unpaid parking tickets. Traffic stops happen a lot in this country. Nineteen million times in two thousand fifteen that's the last year of statistics available from the Department of Justice it's during traffic stops that most people encounter the police about half of those stops result in a ticket the majority of people who are stopped report that all things considered they're treated fairly. But Charles Glover. Differently, in two thousand, sixteen glover was driving along in his Kansas hometown, not breaking any observable traffic roles. Nearby patrolman mark mayor ran a computer check on the license plate of Glover's ninety-five shop pickup truck. He learned that the owner of that truck had a revoked driver's license. Cold Glover over assumed that the driver was also the owner, the owner with the revoked driver's license. Mayor charged glover with driving as a habitual violator. Glover thought that assumption was not a good enough reason to stop him. So he got a lawyer he sued for violation of his Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. Believe it or not. This traffic matter wound up before the US Supreme Court. Hi. Families and solve with. That I will administer justice. Without The person that I work. and. The constitution of the. Well. The duties of the Office on which I'm about to enter. Log help. ME. Gone. Help me God. Welcome to legal docket I'm Mary Record and I'm Jenny rough. This podcast is from the team that brings you the world everything in. Public Justice Supreme Court of the. States come with US inside the world of the Supreme Court as we look more deeply into current disputes and how they make a difference to your life. Before all the honorable the Supreme Court of the United Vermont as we've chosen a handful of cases from this past term that we think you will find thought provoking and worthy of deeper consideration today a routine traffic stop with a possible fourth amendment violation. Guard gave the United States in this audible. Support for the legal docket podcast comes from listeners like you world is grateful for your generosity, which makes possible. The journalism that powers this program W. N. G., dot org slash. Donate. I called a patrolman mark mayor to find out what happened that day four years ago on Zoom, I saw a forty something year old man with a shiny bald head and friendly smile lines It was twenty eight of April about proximity seven, thirty in the morning. So it would have been just shortly after my shift started, we work a twelve hour shift either seven in the morning till seven at night or vice versa. He, described the location the way policemen do he'd been westbound on twenty third street approaching fifty nine highway in Lawrence Kansas in Douglas County. So that intersection in particular in our jurisdiction is probably one of if not the busiest intersections as far as traffic patterns flow traffic excetera. I was stopped at a red light. And I had vehicles all around me. And as I sat in traffic at the Red Light, I took the opportunity to proactively gather intelligence on the vehicles around me, which would basically include running any visible registration or license plate number of a vehicle that was in view of mine. Other parts of the country have automated license plate readers, AL PR's in their patrol cars. Those can run license plate checks by the hundreds from every direction whether on parked vehicles or moving vehicles. Officer mayors situation is different correct correct. In my case, it would have just been a manual entry. You know it was vehicles around me that potentially could be involved in some sort of violation of the law again whether it's just A. Traffic Infraction or in this case, a misdemeanor crime. Drive on a revoked license I use to that time by entering the license plate numbers and just seeking. What information I could from the state database, he recognized the name on one of the registrations from the database Charles Glover Mirror flipped on his lights and pulled over the vehicle, and so as I approached the window of his vehicle after initiating this traffic, stop Mr Glover, new me and I knew him and it was a fairly friendly exchange. If you will Mr Glover actually was an individual who I had known previously from my time when I worked in the jail before I came out on patrol. A repeat offender as far as his driving. And so I was familiar with him as soon as I ran the registration as you'll find out these particular facts had a great deal to do with how the case turned out now I reached out to Charles Glover and many of his relatives either I didn't hear back from them or I. got an outright thanks but no thanks from Glover's lawyers so we'll set it up as best we. Can. Without them gloves driving along in his truck minding his own business officer mayor runs the license plate number for no reason except that he can. He learns that whoever owns the truck has revoked driver's license, and this is the problem according to Glover's lawyer Sarah Harrington says, it's wrong to assume that the person with the revoked license is also the driver of the vehicle listen to Harrington during. November twenty nineteen arguing four glover and against Kansas. Kansas on the United States asked this court to adopt a bright line. Rule that it is always reasonable to assume that a car is being driven by I'm licensed owner just simply assert that it is common sense in every circumstance and in every community in the country. But that's not true and that's not how the fourth amendment works. Well. How does the fourth amendment work and what's reasonable to assume what the fourth amendment says? The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated. And no warrant shall issue. But upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. Unreasonable searches probable cause. Let's break that down a little I called up a law school classmate of mine who went into criminal law practice. After graduation I'm at Brown and I've been a criminal defense lawyer in the city Saint Louis for over thirty years. I asked Brown to explain probable cause the standard the government must meet before it can search or sees a personal belongings brown contrasts. Probable cause with the reasonable suspicion standard. The difference between probable cause and reasonable suspicion is that with probable cause, any reasonable person would know their crime is being committed reasonable suspicion on the other hand in the words supreme. Court means only something more than an inarticulate able launch got to be more than just a feeling in your belly. Now, let's take a minute here and consider that probable. Cause is language from the fourth amendment. Reasonable suspicion is language from a Supreme Court case, famous case Terry Versus Ohio from back in the sixties where the Supreme Court allowed a search based on only reasonable suspicion. Sometimes, a police officer can use his common sense and is training to know that something isn't right and pursue the matter in question however, he cannot seize or search things only. Based upon reasonable suspicion, there has to be some sort of probable cause that case versus Ohio is where that language of reasonable suspicion came from briefly the facts in that case, a police officer thought John Terry and two other men were just about to commit a robbery. So he stopped and frisked the men in the process. He found weapons. Terry received a conviction for carrying a concealed weapon. Terry's lawyer argued this was a search and seizure not based on probable cause in violation of the fourth amendment listen to part of that oral argument from Nineteen Sixty, seven lawyer for the state. Ruben. Pain defended the police officer who stopped and frisked on a hunch. Lawyer pain is asked how can there be probable cause if nothing illegal has yet been observed I understand that to me taking into consideration the tower. Of the circumstances as the responsible person views it at that particular time in relation to his work, for example, the police officer here. Taking an toto tower. These circumstances as he observes. Under the conditions which he observes them. That the conduct that existed. The. IDEA. That may be flow from conduct he has observed here. Debbie. Off. Thurgood Marshall Seemed incredulous about that. He pressed further on pain just where does an officer get expertise to predict someone is about to commit a crime The. To listen carefully to those has his voices fainter on this recording. Brain. Rest. Justified, did he not? Never seen anybody please join Is Correct. So where? Routine. I have a team will get his expertise. By, virtue of the fact that he had been a member of the police department for forty years. And by being a member of the Police Department for Forty Years I'm quite sure. By osmosis, some knowledge would have come to him of various degrees. Names. Intuition. A moment of levity in a very serious case not near intuition pain replied, he offered the example of a lawyer who spends time with a police officer over several years that lawyer would gain knowledge about practical policing aspects of human behavior and the Law Justice Marshall wound up joining the eight to one majority in favor of the officer. Terry. Versus Ohio found that the officer had the right to detain someone under certain specified circumstances. The officer had a reasonable suspicion to detain Terry. That's something more than a feeling in the belly. Brown described reasonable suspicion is a particularized objective basis for suspecting someone the officer wants to stop based on totality of circumstances. It allows for the human factor of police experience, background and training but still glover says that one fact that got pulled over having a revoked license isn't enough to reach that reasonable suspicion standard. You can't just assume that the owner is the driver one world radio listener told us his story my dad, and I don't share the same name but I do drive his car and the car's registered under his name and I got pulled over maybe four or five times because. There's there's a warrant out for my dad's arrest and. And he's out of state. So that's every time they ran the the the license. It would show that there's a warrant out for the owner of that cars arrest for this driver, an inconvenient and embarrassing situation, and so they would always ask me if I had something to drink. Just. Because my dad's had a couple of DUI's and that's the reason there's a warrant out for his arrest. So that's what they would always ask me and then I would explain the situation it's I'm driving the car. Than they would let me go so that turned out. Alright. But was he a public safety hazard? No, could he do something wrong. Was this a hassle. Yes. Multiplied by millions of people who own cars and lots of people who also have suspended revoked expired licenses and who have family or friends using their vehicles. You've got a whole lot of people getting half just Ginsburg cast about for a solution for that assumption problem of assuming the registered owner is also the driver and having the clause for the suspension can be a number of things that. Have nothing to do with safety on the roads. It could be I didn't pay my fine in pay. What course doesn't say anything about the driver's ability to drive safely. That's just an was there a way of finding out why the license was suspended the technology of it was their easy way push button to say, oh, so the regs owners driver's license has been suspended because we're so it's not in the record but. My understanding is the answer is no but even if their assumption of owner equals driver also bothered Justice Elena Kagan, she spun a scenario to test the waters with the Solicitor General who argued in support of Kansas and the officer suppose that a municipality has a law that says, everybody has to carry their driver's license with them at all times and suppose that a particular police department actually did a survey or you know. A study of their practices and found that actually fifty percent of teenagers do not carry their driver's license with them at all times. All right. So now it's common sense that if you see a teenager, she won't be carrying her driver's license with her does that give the police officer the ability to stop every teenager that he sees generally not your lover's lawyer Sarah Harrington extended justice kagan scenario to argue for her side. Say a rule that police must have some common sense reason to pull someone over. But not only that the reason must be something the courts can review like local statistics the weather at the time. Justice. Samuel Alito thought that could easily get out of hand trying to check with headquarters as to the basis for the license suspension. Whether it's an urban area or rural area some place in between other, it's a highway or a city street whether it's raining whether it's dark maybe whether it's a law abiding community where people who have suspended licenses never. The officer has to take into account all those no need to go that far. Harrington answered. But still something more than the single fact of suspended license. Justice. Steven brier tried to get at that something more glover had lost his license. That's a fact. The officer would probably say that in his experience people who own cars are also likely to be the driver you want to add other things what other things and if there were other things that were relevant to this one call the officer. And ask him. About them. and. If you want to say, no, no, it's not that some reasonable given my fact. Even. My back. You probably didn't say that because actually the statistics show. Seventy five percents, sixty percents, but not your daughter to okay we're into that. But what is it? What is it that you think that extra thing in the facts here that should have been in Like, ten things he could have done and he didn't do anything I. Say, that I said, what is it? I'm not talking about what he might have done. Yeah. I'm thinking why justice? Sonia Sotomayor my owner was more skeptical of an officer assuming anything officers in some other legal cases offered something more tangible in most of the others to justice courses just talking about. The officer doesn't say I assume. He says something more like this has been my experience or this is the training. Or the statistics that you put into the record in this case are percentage to the judge. Why is the Supreme Court? Better. Able. Than the trial cord. Who's the finder of fact? To, make decisions about what common sense teaches. Common Sense doesn't always align with the statistics about other important issues like privacy. That's what the electronic privacy. Information Center says epoch for short epic is a public interest research. Group that focuses on privacy and civil liberty in the information age it filed one of several Miki in support of Charles Glover. Megan Yorio is a lawyer they're the information age means more police departments will get a L. PR's the automated license plate readers. Nearly every police department in large cities uses them almost all small cities Ma'am and studies have shown that most departments that have not already adopted them are looking to do so when they have the funds to do so remember officer mayor did not use an AL PR on the truck. Charles Glover was driving your nose concern is that more people will be stopped based upon a single. There's problems with that, and one is that the computer might be wrong There might be a database error. Another problem is that the Alpa are Mike read the license plate wrong and this distracts cops from from doing the work that we expect them to do when when they're on traffic patrol and what traffic laws are meant to protect against, and that's unsafe driving lease overreach is one of her other concerns. That's no. What if scenario either Yorio goes on with a real life example in Port Arthur Texas police used. Pr's to stop people based solely on unpaid traffic tickets. They forced the drivers to pay on the spot or else haul them off to jail, and in two years they jailed fifteen hundred people. In, this town of fifty, five, thousand, the other issue with the single fact. Plus Ale. Pr reasonable suspicion situation is that AOL PR's are most often used like like other surveillance equipment are most often found in low income and majority people of Color. neighborhoods sell disparate impact on people who can least afford to pay fines or fees. It shows how single. Facts combined with this new technology can sharply change the way that traffic enforcement happens. But again, that isn't the situation in Kansas that state mostly only suspended licenses for traffic violations not failure to pay fines or fees. Another group that filed an amicus brief is world's largest organization of sworn enforcement officers. The fraternal order of police it's supports the stance of Kansas. And Officer Mayor Larry James Is General Counsel I ask James About that disparate impact concern on poor or minority populations I think the question becomes you're on the road the license check does not infer that the officer has a predisposition of either the individual being minority or being poor James explained that an unlicensed driver can't get auto insurance and that in. Turn poses a danger to the public in case of an accident yet, another reason for police to be able to check license plates randomly of course, Jim News when that information is relate to that officer does he or she has sufficient information to a reasonable degree of an officer similarly situated to conclude that it's very likely that this individual driving the car. Is unlicensed or the license had been revoked or suspended dust. The car is uninsured and that is a crime and it's a danger to the public officer mayor pointed out another benefit to the status quo allowing stop based on random checks. The very waste of what I can do when I'm out there, and of course, it's the very least as far as intrusiveness as well because I'm not actually stopping vehicles to gather that information. There's view the fines, fees and justice center. It filed an amicus brief in support of Glover along with the Cato Institute the Southern Poverty Law Center and the R Street Institute quite a span of ideological perspectives among that group. I was surprised by that. Lisa. Foster is president of the fines fees and justice center. She pointed out how the status quo hurts low income people. The most Kansas said our officers have to be able to stop these people because. The Public Safety Problem People suspended licenses are dangerous drivers, and that is not in fact, the case instead foster told me other states suspend licenses for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with public safety. They'll suspend a license if the person fails to pay their child support. Many drug offenses carry an automatic license suspension even if a car had nothing to do with the fence, but the single largest category of suspensions in the United, states is when a person cannot afford to pay their fines and fees. Fraudsters said forty two states. Now, you suspension of driver's licenses to collect debt. So to give an example in Florida. Seventy percent of the licenses suspended annually by the State of Florida are suspended for non payment of court finding fees seventy percent. In Ohio it's sixty two percent in Wisconsin it's fifty six percent but that's not Kansas according to government documents only about ten percent of licensed drivers in that state are suspended for unpaid fines and fees yet foster pointed out the arbitrary approach of fines and fees is currently used elsewhere. Attempting way of raising money. It's very easy for lawmakers to just sort of blithely add things. I mean, California's a great example the fees that attached to every traffic ticket they fund eighteen different state agencies including the fishing game service and the Department of Emergency Management, and the medical air transport system being things that have nothing to do with on the other side is Helen Witty. She's president of mothers against drunk driving a group that also filed into, make us brief but in support of Kansas and Officer Mirror. What he the problem is a majority of people who've lost their licenses do keep driving. A licenses suspended usually for a big deal. I mean it's I don't think that a licensed get suspended for nothing, and unfortunately a person might have to get to work or have to get their children to school. But also it does indicate a disregard for the law unfortunately for many people they continue to drive and they continue to drink and drive. So views pro and con as to what facts given officer a reasonable suspicion to make a vehicle stop. How do you think the Supreme Court decided Justice Samuel Alito, put it rather provocatively to glover's lawyer during oral arguments. What you're proposing is either trivial decision or a revolutionary decision. It's trivial decision if all this lacking here is a statement I've been trained that Blah Blah Blah. It's a revolutionary decision if in every. Case involving reasonable suspicion, there has to be a statistical showing or an examination of all the things that you think are necessary here is that. What we're asking for is that the ordinary fourth amendment contextual analysis be required in every case, it doesn't require statistics. In every case, it doesn't require any magic words. It just requires something to support the reason. Well that something didn't turn out the way. Harrington argued it should rather the justices we're convinced by wet Kansas Attorney. General Toby Krause argued the fourth amendment does not and should not apply differently based upon the agent experience of the officer or the time of day of the fourth amendment. The rule the respondents propose would require the officers to let this vehicle go. because. It's impossible to identify the states have a strong interest in regulating the roadways and they have a strong law enforcement interest. For example, if there was a report of a child had been abducted and we were looking for the mother, the officers would be reasonable to rely on the license plate krause extended that reasonableness to the officer. In this case here, deputy mayor relied upon commonsense understanding that a registered owner given the pervasiveness of automobile use in the United States was likely to be driving again, warranted additional investigation it would have been poor police work for. Deputy mayor not to initiate the Stop in this case and investigate further to confirm or dispel his suspicion, and that's how the Supreme Court decided by vote of Eight to one an investigative traffic stop made after learning vehicles registered owner has a revoked license is reasonable under the fourth amendment with a caveat though if the officer has other information to negate the inference that it is the owner driving the vehicle then that stop is not okay. For example, if the registered owner is listed as male and the driver is observed to be female than the officer wouldn't be. Reasonable to assume the owner and the driver are the same person and the court reiterated that the level of suspicion required is less than what's necessary for probable cause quote. It depends on the factual and practical considerations in everyday life on which reasonable and prudent men not legal technicians act, and that's true. Even when it isn't always the case that the driver isn't the owner the majority pointed to empirical studies that show drivers with suspended or revoked licences frequently do continue to drive so that combined with the information from the database and commonsense judgment forms a reasonable. Suspicion, sufficient to thank specific individual is engaged in certain criminal activity. Officer mayor was quite relieved by this decision given that the Kansas Supreme Court below had faulted him for making an assumption. This word of assumption came up in the Kansas Supreme Court ran with that and said, well, deputy mayor just made an assumption that the registered owner was driving an assumption is nothing more than just a wild guess and you have to have more than a wild guess to seize it individual driving down the roadways but the justices reversed and remanded the Kansas Supreme Court's assessment is. Lightning wants this case made its way to the Supreme Court that In particular justice gorsuch he said, you know inference assumption. We're basically playing word games. He said in reality. Are we just saying the same thing officer made a decision? Based off of his collective training experience and again call it sumptious. Called an inference but it all means the same thing. Justice. Kagan and Ruth Bader GINSBURG. They pointed out different facts would produce a result for example, in another jurisdiction where licenses are taken away for reasons other than public safety like not paying fines and fees justice. Sonia Sotomayor was the lone dissent she worried about demographic profiling. She didn't believe driving on a revoked license necessarily means a disregard for the Law Justice Sotomayor believes this ruling will absolve officers from any responsibility to investigate the identity of the driver when it's feasible to do so. Larry James General Counsel for the Fraternal Order of police summed up the opinion this way it was a very limited ruling. It does not give a cart blind green light for officers to go out and stop individuals when other reasonable investigatory techniques should have been employed or work employed in or ignored I don't see it have that far reaching the fact one could take a philosophical position that there should be a reasonable suspicion based on something more than the officers saying this individual is unlicensed or has a license revoked is the owner of the car and therefore it's probably him or her now. But the court says is you still have a reasonable time to stop the individual ads for the license or asthma the verification in that standard or requirement has not changed. For Officer Mirror this routine traffic stop was anything but. The fact that Amir encounter based on a traffic stop and the issuance of a traffic citation would reach all the way to the highest court in our country was. Was Really. Pretty mind blowing for me. And he's mindful that his power to detain and investigate is a very serious thing. When I was a training officer, you know I've made it very clear to people you need to make sure that you have lawful authority when you make these contacts. because. If in fact you do take someone into custody, you have deprived them of their freedom and that's something that you know you and I and every American values tremendously as as the ability to be free of government intrusion without a reason. Legal docket is produced by the creative team. World Radio I'm Mary Record and I'm Jenny Rock we're the hosts each week our script editors are Nick Eicher JC. Derek technical engineer is rich razzle and our producer is Paul Butler. We'd love to hear from you our email addresses legal docket at W. N. G. Dot Org. Send US your questions or comments, and we'll see if we can address those in future episodes an upcoming segments on the world and everything in it. Again, our email address is legal talk at W. N.. G. Dot Org? While you're at it. Can you take a moment and leave a comment about the program wherever you listen to this podcast comments and reviews are a great way to get the word out. Thanks for listening. For just two more weeks you'll be hearing legal docket on the world and everything in it. Each Saturday episode nine airs right here. Next week September twenty sixth. Release legal, doc as a standalone series, and we published new episodes on that feed each Tuesday. So if you WANNA listen sooner and help others find this new podcast, you can subscribe by searching for legal docket on Apple podcasts stitcher or wherever you listen.
"The walking Keith. And the girl. I'm Keith Malley. I'm Keith Missouri Week. It's coming up. It's this week this week. Yup Oh my God and it starts off with your birth April fifteenth. Where you get roasted this year. So you and I are doing a keith. And the girl roast there's a GP mcdade and Wendy starling and Andrea Allan Bianca Brady we of Lake twelve people on the line up. Get your tickets at K. T. dot com slash free? Vip just breathing down my row strokes as you as you say this Safar got asshole. Slot Bitch Bills Billy Procedo. Jesus shed. We're done we're good writing itself writing itself. That's just the start though. That's your birthday. That's the Keith. And the girl rose then. We have silent trailers on April sixteenth. We've accusing in a chat party April seventeenth and we round out the week with Bianca's I live show. This is all virtual now her virtual life show of last week on Keith. And the girl and she's going to wrap up Katie. Gee Week I think you're GONNA WANNA be there if you've been listening for even just a little bit keys in the girl dot com slash free VIP. Oh we're going to have to close down those tickets pretty soon so Get it now. It's what you would call last call right right now. You have to. You have to get them to get your free tickets because you're a VIP member and then people of course can still pay for the tickets. That's we'll Move a link to that but we do have to put a limit on the free tickets but just go now sign up. You'll make it just fine. So candling que. Did you dot com slash free? Vip If you have any questions you could always email Info Keith. And the girl dot com not to start with a bummer but VIP has so much stuff in it and you have that new episode about domestic abuse. Under what's my name yet as with Lauren Aitchison and I see that while crime the way we think of it is going down because of the krona virus domestic abuse is going way up. Yeah I have to. I mean it is such a bummer. It's such a weird thing to talk about. I have to imagine that it's also the children who are now around. Yes yes so if you listened that tend to show if you need another reason or that extra push to leave the situation because I can see people easily think you're you're holding onto an excuse because he at least you know something you know you get beat up at night you know. The next day starts again. There's there's a pattern that you know and maybe like I don't know what will happen now. There's a virus going on it You need that extra push. It takes a lot to have the courage to leave. Let me tell you something. There's a virus and you might get it because you left your house your bones ache anyway. You have kids like Alluded to They can see it all. They smell it. You're not doing them any favors. Yeah get the fuck out and I think instead of me just saying that where it sounds like. I don't have information behind it. I come to show will help give you that push no pun that you need Also more more light hearted stuff in VIP of course to new episodes of diamond dogs. The latest is called Easter. Come spray you know. And it features are pal spooky. How'd you get him all the way from Australia? We're just thinking like who are dogs who we're going to talk to who are pals and so. We thought we'd say hi to him now. Sluki for those who don't know when we first started listener. Who became a good friend but He's kind of a Wacko. He's he's out there and and we love him a episode of nonsense just myself in. Kyle what we've been doing during the corona virus. You can check out last week on Keith. And the girl with Bianca. So it's all there as well as three thousand two hundred fifty seven other Keith. And the girl episodes we did. And that's not even counting the spin offs the specials. Yes Keith and the girl ten thousand hours are out there okay. And you're you're never GONNA be bored. I'll tell you that. Feel like what do I listen to for my eight hundred batch of sour dough bread. You know we just by the way happy Easter happy. Passover thank you. Does that mean anything anymore? I'm always amazed now that I remember especially not going outside. You're not passing those things and if you're watching Netflix. You're not getting commercials so I wonder how that's going like. Is Atheism going up? Why think about you know? We talked about all the things that we're going to realize we don't need after all this is over for example family like remember when to talk on cell phones. And you know you'd hit bad spots and it's like all You're breaking up. I gotTa Hang Up. I don't have service here. Whatever I say there's a lot of Passover sater's that went like that oh I guess my Internet connection isn't happening the zoom is cutting in and out Guess I can't eat an egg across the Internet with you. Remember how we were slaves yet. You're going to realize okay. I can't for Thanksgiving will come up. This might still be going. It's GonNa Change People's lives when they are like wait enjoyed thanksgiving. I could honestly couldn't see my family. I needed that. Push to know that I can't and what's I can't either. That happened to me. I'd go home. Every thanksgiving is a big deals in New York. One year. I didn't have the money couldn't go home and I'm like Holy Five. I could do that. It's true it's true for your first one. You're white. Knuckling like this feels awkward This isn't right. The all they ask is for me to see them once a year maybe twice in and now I'm not doing it and it's like it gets out of your hands and then you white knuckle through that and you go. Wait a minute That was better and thanksgiving. Everyone travels so I'll travel is up in price all of a sudden you got money in your pocket and you don't to be called fat while you're eating that's nice. I had the hungry man. Turkey special okay. Why do you have to take it too bad? My point is I didn't feel like a piece of shit right. This is the best Thanksgiving yet. Yeah because in movies they showed the person like womp womp. I don't have family I to eat Turkey from a microwave. What they don't shows the dude who sitting there like playing video games watching the movie. He wanted to see scratching his balls. Like you know just and women too like vibrator while you're eating. Whatever happy Thanksgiving I give my laundromat just closed at least guessing? To the end of the month I happened to catch just in time but I wonder if I'm going to realize like I don't even need them because I will not wash my clothes at home like I'm an animal so watch I realize we don't need under one because like how many times can you turn your underwear inside out. I think for me the Max is three and then I'm going to start going commando and then I'm going to go. You know what? Who NEEDS IT myself to law? This is honestly. It's not the lesson I thought we were GONNA learn today but it is good point. We are really learning that. But what are you gonNA do for laundry? You're not GonNa do think now I refuse. No Hey Hey. Who has the sleeveless shirts assholes? I washed my clothes less than everybody else. Yeah my heaters are out there not contaminating anything I do have to say. I have not been taken a shower every day. I don't know when the last time I took a shower. And the thing is is he's always like I'll take shouting like no baby. You smell great. I do like them much. I bought a for the first time in my life. I'm forty five years old. I bought bought an electric razor and did my head myself. Oh you are shaved. Yeah I don't need a barber first of all I wasn't gonNA shape. I thought we were going to fucking animals. We we're doing these behind the scenes roast tests in out to make sure everybody's Cameron video was good. Everybody I don't know what the FAULK IF. Everybody has a stylus that home but everybody's clean-shaven everybody's here is looking nice and I'm like oh I thought we were all to be rip Van Winkle I uh so I went out and got his shaver. I think people are but I think like once a week or twice a week people today. I need to feel like a human being and for some reason to us. We've managed to equate human being with shaving are monkey selves I don't feel comfortable cutting my nails or my toenails in front of people but the other day. I cut my fingernails in front of circuses and we were basically like just managing our fingernails. And I'm like is this not sexy. Do you find it uncomfortable defined that to be a behind the scenes bathroom thing. I don't mind the nails. I know some people do. I don't mind that the only thing I ever mind I think is nose blowing and especially nose picking That's so nauseating to me that I we have to end the relationship but about toenail clipping. Why are you doing it? That's us? You're weird but no I don't care where would you do that? Is that a bathroom. Bathrooms friend's house. But you can't do that now so I guess when we're watching TV I so I think don't you think these are things that were figuring out like. I don't how we know toenails bathroom. You're figuring it out. I kinda I knew to wash my hands on a new toenails in the bathroom and I walked around barefoot. I DID THAT IN STUDIO STILL. I know you do your toenails. Why I duNno? Society has hangups but let them have it. This isn't the one that I'm fighting for. I don't mind I get it tracks to me so I I'm learning. I'm not GONNA need a barber. Probably not going to need the laundromat as much with underwear. Anyway that's what I do underwear and socks. I do notice them. I'm putting out less garbage. You know I don't. I don't even know how I'm eating the same amount but when you cook you would think you would have more garbage now. While you're you're you don't know like how you got into bread-making mode on day two. Yeah so you're probably like you peel the carrot and then eat the peels. I know what's going on over there but you know what I'll tell you what you're GonNa Learn Thou getting out of this what we don't need and it could be you your job. It could be they go. You know what? We don't need a greeter at the door. People know how to get in the door. You know what what else people are needing to find out a lot of times it's Let's have a date night. Let's go out to eat. Let's have a date night. Let's go to a movie night. You got to. You got to actually be romantic now. You're not telling a waiter what you want. You actually look in each other's eyes and go tonight. Let's have steak cook not So Passover it's when the Israelites left Egyptian slavery and but it happened to be bread making day that night right and so take. Everybody had the runway and the loaves of bread. Couldn't raise the proper breads. But apparently that was the fucking that Moses. It's bread-making night like now. Today's just right. I could smell it. But what about all the pro? We all started our breadth in it so anyway known as good breadth. They gotta take this piece of shipwreck not one person I bet there was fucking Ezekiel Ezekiel. Is that Ezekiel bread. What's up. There's some kind of bread right. I bet he's the fucking one and he's hoarding it. Well I did it early. I don't know you guys wait last minute. Be Ready to leave any time. It's not good so anyway. No one has Brent. Now we have Mozza and I I went to yeshiva. That is Ju- School for half the day and the other half is American curriculum. For nine years I went to the school. No one has ever explained Passover so great thank you. I'M AT THE STORE TODAY. And there's no bread on the shelves like I'm living it. Everyone celebrate. Now you know what slaves in Egypt feels like. I understand the I understand what's happening. I also saw that eastern you know how like it slim pickens on Easter Day or the day before Easter at the CVS and that kind of shops right one of these for the cards and candies and yeah like cute decorations right. And then the day after everything's fifty percent off the day before Easter. This year the shells were all stocked with Easter stuff. They were already fifty percent off Laughing people are realizing they don't need the Easter Bunny or God. What two for one right? Everything's different I saw. I didn't see the I don't want to know the answer. Because it doesn't affect me per se but the Kansas Supreme Court the highest office in the the state each state of course has the Supreme Court had to do zoom hearing about if people are allowed to gather for church events namely Easter okay. But you're on a zoom meeting deciding this right. So why don't you guys get in the same room and pray on it? See See if the answer comes to you well Easter. I decided to stay in. Keep it low key would you do? Oh it was lover date happened to be loveday in most of our most of our time is being spent on K t g week which is helping me a lot with so little bit of our time went to that. But it's so nice we actually put our feet in some water in water bins and then like took the calluses off. Each Other's feet were disgusting now. The I don't know why I'm telling you this but it was very romantic. It was like for Jesus you know how he liked washing feet or people liked washing his feet. I don't know we did that. Some new those Blake Hammond wrote a White House. Press RELEASES. This is crazy. White House says Jesus died for our sins bone. Only you can die for your economy. Lacks out there? Can you imagine the Babylon be said? Researches Delay Corona virus vaccine until they figure out how to make it cause autism? This is the world we're living in folks. It's too much too much. New Jersey transit is saying you have to wear masks on the train. You're not you're not allowed on it at all. New York doesn't have that rule yet now. I can get out of my apartment in the front. I don't do a lot but We ventured out I can get in the front. They're still like six feet and then a gate so watch people pass. Sometimes I watch people go by And so I am noticing. That people are wearing masks. But I'm wondering where you guys getting your mask from all of a sudden I have a mask and I do wear inside the store for example because it just makes people comfortable at this point. How are you comfortable waiting? Six feet apart in line at a grocery store seeing everybody has a mass. But you how do you feel like a piece of shit? You know whether you feel stupid or not. Don't you feel like a piece of Shit I got my master's from Kyle. She whenever the I will never like the news was out be. Didn't know a serious was. She happened to have a dentist appointment so she stole three masks. So I have one cell so I two of her children don't have it but you have one. They got they got to fight for it. They Check The bore the Chore Board. And if they didn't do their chores you know I'll I`ll. I'll wear a mask absolutely by the way speaking of keeping awake a tendencies their their ground control there the central station over there. And they're doing amazing stuff. I saw the Saturday night live. Did it from home like it? Seems like each person or the rating partner came up with something themselves and then presented it. Yeah some of that sound was so terrible kate. Mckinnon who we all love had the worst. I don't understand. They can't like Firkin Girl Week. We actually set up twenty individual phone calls from Mike Checks. Now Keith I actually. I know this is up your alley but you know I kind of have thought and I got rid of this right away. Everybody knows you're GONNA have to sound professional but we got on a Mike checks with people and will like it. Sounds Okay but do you happen to have a Mike and they go. Yeah should I hook that up when my okay really glad we did this? Yes hook up your microphone this. Snl You can't send everybody a two hundred dollar USB mike the what's the news section of SNL which I weakened update. I think that's the best part that was the worst sound and the only the literally just have to talk to each other like it's a podcast and they added a laugh not a laugh track but they added some life people listening to them in Zoom. So you heard like and I'm like well Alec Baldwin is talking right now so you're laughing on top of it and this is distracting. And why can't you guys do it without hearing? Aleph just trust that it's funny or laugh at each other's joke the end who such weird sound because their friends also. They knew what the job was. I couldn't tell how many people are laughing five seven but they they would laugh at the setup and it's like now you're not trying you're trying too hard it's also weird to have seven people laughing in the background in in the same audio sound level as the actual comics. Because they're not they're not talking into the mic so people are laughing into the computers as loud as they're telling jokes while James Difficult Academy was on the first of the these two recent diamond log episode and we. I was testing his Mike. And I'm like well I think I hear some in the background. What is that? He goes? I duNno know. It sounds like a washing machine goes now. What is it at the Dryer? Should I move as if the answer is in? Turn it off. It's in your house for one. Yeah I don't know maybe they didn't want to hurt. S Ehlers feelings. I don't know what feelings were at home doing. Nothing what he'll say. What feelings do people normally have about their dance? Monkeys does Dan. What by when you WANNA sound the best? Also tell Cain maybe she doesn't know why would she know right? Why is that her job? Well now you don't go out for the you. Don't go out for groceries. You're both compromised. You answer CC's Yep So you have to do it online. I got a feel like that's congested. As opposed to live grocery store. It's more congested than I would imagine. we just did another order for groceries and does no time for delivery so you put everything in the cart and this is across the board. This is Amazon. Fresh INSTA- car some other thing. We tried them all. We happen to get on INSTA- cart. It's just easy and you don't get a date so what you do. Is You. Keep refreshing all day and all night and as soon as one pops up the next available one you just click on it. You try to grab it and I've done that like you know you're like half awake and you're going to P and you're like there's a time you click on am I available. Who CARES I'm going to be home. And then by the time I got to my credit card. I lost the date. I did that like twice and on the third time I got it and again I was half sleeping because I check in the middle of the night if I get up and I'm like Oh this is exactly on a Keith. And the girl Show during the show like exactly at the start of the shows. When they're gonNA come on like I don't know I'll figure it out. Turns out. It was a week later. I ordered groceries and they gave me a delivery date of three weeks later. Sorry weeks don't shop when you're hungry because you know that saying that's crazy now when you get in there. I feel like it supermarket. Sweep like did I just put ten pounds of shit a wealth that said pads and Guinea some lettuce. You got to be quick it. You'll get kicked off. Actually that's what's good about Insta- cart is until that date. I can keep changing my car so every day. I'm like butter and then I just add butter by the time they get to my date. I'll have three weeks worth of groceries. In the cart. Set the date even if you have nothing to buy absolutely yeah as soon as we get the new groceries. We're going to try to get a new date. I'll give you life hacks you don't go crazy. The APP that's free to download best fiends. I love it. It's a fun puzzle game so no waste is fun. You can take with you anywhere upstairs. Downstairs the bathroom upstairs again. You could take it anywhere you want and I feel like Now when I hear best fiends I'm like I Miss Andrea Right. I'll she she'd love this game. It's the only thing keeping her saying. That's the that's the truth is you could take me to court if online the game gets more challenging as you play it. It's so fun it's made for adults. Kids can play it but I love it. It's it. It really is for adults. You feels you feel smart bidzos casual et Cetera et CETERA. Best fiends. It's That's friends without the. Are you download for free? Take a look. See if you like it surprise you will best phen- says thousands of levels already with new levels events and characters added every month. It's hours of fun right at your fingertips and you can even play off line with over one hundred million downloads and tons of five star reviews best fiends as they must play download best feeds free on the Apple. App store or Google play like. I said that's friends without the our best. The I love it so much so it is a little the misinformation or how things change about the corona virus. Is I guess what's maddening to everybody now. I don't have kids but my girlfriend does. And The New York City mayor in New York state governor can't seem to agree if schools are staying closed. The ones you go to in person until the end of the year not that that in New York City. They're saying yes goes will not open to the end of the year the State. Cuomo's sand easy. We don't know yet but they're saying the end of the school year which is just two more months and I don't know who's kidding who. Where are you sending your child? What you you're staying at home from work but your child is going to learn what right but the parents are now coming to the realization that there's no summer camps so picture you had kids and you're like okay but usually. I go to work and during the summer. You're you're you're Adema here for two months or so it's like no no no. I didn't sign up for this My kids are always there. That was not understood. Your honor Yeah. Try to do color ward home. Now right it'll just happen. Let me tell you about some news around the world. I mentioned this last week sometime. I think Thailand Thailand. Their king has been the has taken over luxury German hotel to isolate from the corona virus along with a Harem of twenty women Maha Veto Long Corn. Sixty seven book the entire Grand Hotel after obtaining permission to break the Bavarian towns locked out rule so the king was able to get permission and he's now with the Harem being safe Those funds those lucky twenty women. I mean I just feel like there's nothing to do but respect them during this time right. Why do I feel? It was a volunteer right. Twenty women like yeah. I'll be locked up with you king. I'm sure I could say not himself hoping to help. Slow the I'm not today okay. Is it okay? If we don't do today. Yeah nineteen other. Can you do it to Kim? Just not feeling it now. I don't know of this bomb today hoping to help. Slow the spread of the Corona Virus Australian astrophysicist tried to invent a device to stop people from touching their faces but he wound up hospitalized with four magnets stuck up his nose. He said I thought that. If I build a circuit that can detect the magnetic field and we wore magnets on our wrists than it would set off an alarm if you brought it too close to your face says this Dr Daniel Reardon I Clinton to my ear lobes and then clipped them to my nostrils. Then things went downhill pretty quickly when I clicked the magnets to my other nostril. There's a doctor or doctor of what this is a doctor. I hope it's parapsychologist astrophysicist. See this is why flat earthers exist because look at this and the statement actually reads and that's where things went south and then go scientists. That's fun if I went if I had magnets locked in my nose to each other and I have to go the hospital. Get the I wouldn't say that I did tell the I'd say it was a sex thing I'm like I'm I'm a freak. Can we just move on? That's less embarrassing. Aballah Russian president. See Listen to this. I when they said the two hundred countries are affect with the virus. I'm like who knew there that that many countries that Bell I guess so. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko is insisting that vodka and Saunas can cure the corona virus. I know it. People should not only wash their hands with vodka but also poison the virus within this just in Eden ounce of Marijuana Day. You're good to go. You should drink the equivalent of forty to fifty milliliters. But I think that's not even a shot. I like how this is somehow based on these people's favorite thing like my favorite thing be we'd and I decided that the cures we'd and somebody else decided that it's cocoa puffs he said take about a shot at day but not at work. Elo Elo When you come out of the sauna not only wash your hands. But also your insides with a hundred milliliters. Let Sauna you just go in the sonnet or what fucking sauna and then drink then you'll be golden and then fuck twenty women recently. That pretend they want to be there but they were obviously picked up by the police. A German mayor said he got infected with Corona virus quote almost on purpose from his partner in hopes of developing immunity and learned that the bug was quote a lot worse than he ever thought. Oh yeah that makes sense. That checks out. You obviously looked up some information before you did that never mind. The people are starting to get the second round of the virus. You don't know anything. Because other people who know more don't know the fond Dasell fifty-three district mayor of Milt Berlin Central Borough told public broadcasting that his illness was a contribution towards the long-term goal of flattening the Kirk. Thank you That's so nice Philippines President Rodrigo nine. That was a country. Philippines President Rodrigo Duarte has warned that anyone who violates the nation's Corona virus lockdown rules and abuses medical workers would be shot dead. Okay the leader said in a televised address that it was vital that everyone stay home is authorities tried to stem the spread of the virus which has killed about one hundred people infected over twenty three hundred in the country. So if you see me in Zurich season the front of the house because we're standing next to each other one of us gets shot the other one just learns a lesson but now there's no risk any more of me dying. He's dead so I can't fuck up. You know what I used to have because these countries I'm looking at my map on my wall but I took it down because I my last couch was rubbing the bottom of it and so is really wearing it away. Look thirty and now that my new catches little lower one. Kyle got me so you see the dirt so I threw it out but I need something on my wall. Now what do I do He stashing rug Persian while we did have that growing up we had rugs in the wall Some kind of you know Velvet Elvis. Maybe like a green screen. Start Getting Weird in your house right I Know Marissa popular thing right at mayor really opens up the room. I hate mirrors because people are not used to mirror so they just start looking at themselves. Okay yeah all right so I'm thinking I'm thinking what's going to change my life. Some of your suggestions will join us for this week's events. They start on Wednesday April fifteenth. That's the roast Very excited spit on everybody. You know. Get your tickets now keeping the girl dot com slash free. Vip and if you're not a VIP member Keith. And the goal dot com slash VIP again any questions info at keeping the girl dot com. We hope we see everyone. They're really about it. We're still writing. Are ROAST JOKES? So send them over if you have them fuck it. It's a group meeting. We'll see you for keys on the girl. Happy Birthday Keith thanks.
NPR News: 04-06-2020 6PM ET
"Live from NPR. News in Washington. I'm Jack Speer. As the death toll from the corona virus pandemic continues to Mount New York City. Funeral homes and cemeteries are unable to keep up. Npr's Greg Allen reports officials said the city may have to temporarily interr- some of the dead in a public park eighty refrigerated trailers. Big enough to hold one hundred bodies each have been deployed to hospitals throughout New York City. Some hospitals now added a second and even third trailer holding remains of people who died from Cova nineteen or other causes New York City Councilman Mark. Levin says the death toll doesn't soon level off. The city will likely start doing temporary. Interment digging trenches in a city park caskets will be buried. You'd be done in a way that allows these bodies into disinterred and given a proper burial at such time as the crisis is over in a normal cemetery. Systems and funeral home system is running again. Levin says the Defense Department has said mortuary specialists in New York City. But that more help is needed. Greg Allen. Npr News British Prime Minister. Boris Johnson has been moved into an intensive care unit today after symptoms of Cova nineteen worsened. That's according to his Downing Street office says Johnson was admitted to Saint Thomas Hospital over the weekend. The British prime minister first announced he was suffering from the disease caused by the Krona Virus. Ten days ago and initially continued to run. The country from his residence is now asked foreign secretary. Dominic robb be deputized for him. Britain has no formal succession. Plan should the prime minister become incapacitated? The fifty five year old Johnson tested positive for the virus on March Twenty Six south. Carolina's Governor's ordering residents of that state to stay home with few exceptions as NPR's. Sarah McCarron Explain South. Carolina had been among a dwindling number of states. Without state homeowners are under pressure from medical groups and federal officials including Dr Anthony Fauci to order their residents to stay home in an effort to reduce the spread of the corona virus. A handful of Republican governors have been holdouts but now South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster says infections are rising and now is the time to people all. Merode's too many people on the water's too many people and the stores too. Many people are not requiring with our with our requests concerning social distancing exceptions include work outdoor exercise or obtaining necessary goods and services. Violating SOUTH CAROLINA'S. Stay home order can be punished with fines or jail time. Sarah MacKinnon. Npr News interest-rate-setting Federal Reserve is announcing plans to create a new program to finance loans. That banks and other lenders make to the government's emergency small business lending program banks began taking loan applications Friday. Those loans will come with a one percents restraining aimed at keeping employees on the payroll for eight weeks. Stocks gained ground on Wall Street today. The Dow is up more than sixteen hundred points. You're listening to NPR. The nation's highest court has ruled Blinken pullover a car when they know only its owners licenses invalid even if they do not know who is behind the wheel accord nothing. It's reasonable for police to think. The car's owner would be driving the ruling reverses the Kansas Supreme Court decision that found police violated drivers constitutional rights when they stopped his pickup. Based only information that the owners license had been revoked actress. Honor Blackman who played Pussy Galore in the James Bond Movie? Goldfinger has died at the age of ninety four. According to her family she died of natural causes a home in Sussex England appears Elizabeth Blair has this remembrance sexy blonde with Piercing Blue Eyes Pussy. Galore is a pilot working for the evil Goldfinger. She's also a judo expert with a flick of a wrist. She flips bond his back. Ross this honor. Blackman was gorgeous and tough in London during World War Two. She learned how to ride a motorcycle to be a volunteer messenger to play a fashionable crimefighter in the TV series. The avengers. She learned judo. She appeared in dozens of movies and TV shows over the years and kept up her martial arts. She also co wrote a Self Defense Book for Women Elizabeth Blair. Npr News up in his car company. Honda says it will extend its auto production shutdown in the US and Canada. Through may I? The company saying in many cases consumers are unable to purchase vehicles and resolve the automaker needs to suspend production to align product supply with lack of market demand onto halted its auto production in the US and Canada on March twenty third. I'm Jack Speer. Npr News in Washington.
325: Founding Myth Edition
"I can't wait for summer all these huge summer sale starts now all jeans all t's all dresses in all shorts around sale up to fifty percent off. Gene started fifteen dollars for adults. Ten dollars for kids shorts from twelve dollars for adult. Seven dollars for kids by online and pick up in store for free today. All jeans tees dresses and shorts are on sale. Up to fifty percent off. Now at old navy and old navy dot com. Valid five six two five twelve excludes in store clearance, active licensed men's packaged and flag tease. Wanting the following podcasts. Contains those words stupid people get more offensive about than actual harmful stuff. This week's episode of the scathing atheist is brought to you by stamps dot com. Ziprecruiter, wicks dot com, and by eighty billion dollars the amount of revenue we give away every year in religious tax exemptions eighty billion dollars. They owe us that money reparation of church. State. And now the scathing atheist, hey, this is Jordan Norman from everyone's favourite band. Jordan Norman in the wisdom teeth. My day job, however is as a playground installer. And as a man who builds both monkey bars and jungle gyms I can confirm that we do. In fact, Volve from filthy monkey people. It's thursday. It's me ninth. And it's lost sock. Memorial day. See dead veterans. You and smelly foot tubes that have been neglected you. Both get the same amount of day. No allusions, he then. Right. And from the Ecuadorian embassy in London. And good husband, Georgia. This is the scathing Agius on this week's episode can Hamill argue the age of the earth was somebody old to remember its formation. Donald Trump doesn't think Brock Obama is the only president who deserves reparation and Andrew Seidel. Join us from the castle black the Wallis peration, but I the diatribe. Later on in the show. I'm going to be interviewing f f or as attorney Andrew Seidel about his new book the founding myth. Why Christian nationalism is unamerican which sets out to viscera? The David Barton bullshit about America being founded as a Christian nation now. Obviously, we're going to talk about that in the interview, that's the whole point of the interview. But I just read that book it's three hundred pages of pure diatribe fuel. So we're also going to talk about that right now for a little bit. Because one of the points that Andrew really emphasizes throughout this book is that when they claim that America was founded as a Christian nation, they're not just lying there also stealing and they're stealing from us. God it not atheists. Exactly, but rationalists free thinkers, people who value reason over superstition. I mean, setting aside are weird founding fathers fetish for the time being look at who. Those people were Benjamin Franklin would be remembered for a scientific accomplishments alone. Even if he'd never gotten involved in the nation founding. Business he discovered electrically for fuck sake. George Washington was responsible for shitload of advances in farming Thomas Paine spit is waning years. As a prolific inventor John Adams founded the American Academy for arts and sciences. Nearly all of them were first and foremost men of reason and very clearly when they set out to form a nation, they based their decision on scientific principle observation reason experimentation theory, there's no divinely handed down bullshit in our nation's founding is the product of enlightenment thinkers, trying to distill the natural laws of governance and revolutionaries trying to manipulate them. America was founded not as a Christian nation, but as a scientific experiment. Hell, the founders themselves used the term v American experiment. That's clearly the language of science religion doesn't have experiments unless you count anti diluvian human society. Hell one of the few truly unique aspects of the government, they crafted was it separation of religion from the apparatus of government, the Wallace ration-, that's one of the few things that we. Actually built and look in the present circumstances. I can see how science wouldn't be in a hurry to claim America as one of its products, but all the good aspirin shit at its core is a child of science, and look it's easy to lose track of the ideals at the heart of the American experiment when you have to peer out through a blood soaked history of institutionalized, bigotry, and slavery. But they are they're Christians fight for the past because they want to steer the future. They recognize that a myth can be stronger than the truth. Hell it's a prerequisite to be in their club that you recognize that. And so they paint America's founding with the same historical integrity. They use for the building of the pyramids or the founding of Israel one point. Oh, and their myths. No matter how historically laughable still seep. So deeply into the soil of American culture that starts sprouting out in textbooks and documentaries. And as Andrew highlights in his book legal decisions see to win this battle. It's not enough for us to fight against their narrative. We. We also have to fight four the real one, you know, in even with the truth on our side is hard to fight. We have to limit ourselves to the actual history. And that's not pretty it's filled with unjustified wars of aggression and expansion in humane public policy driven by corporate greed bigotry against every ethnic group. You can name and several you can't unrestrained capitalism at the expense of the populace and a system slavery. So heinous it manage to be bad for slavery. So true or not it's never gonna be as easy to swallow as that romanticize sterilized lionised history. The Christian nationalists have on tap. But if anybody's qualified to sell a hard truth in the face of an easy lie. It's us, right. We've been countering attorney in paradise with just dead for centuries. And we're still some out here and growing that could only be the case if the truth had its own momentum. You know, look, nobody's going to fight this fight but us, and nobody else could and with all due apologies to our international listeners for this America Centric Diat. Tribe and a quick reminder to them that if we fucked up bad enough our nuclear shit's going to spill into your country to it's a fight. We can't afford to lose right because you can't hold these truths to be self-evident. If you've already abandoned in both evidence and truth. It was special news will within joining me for headlines tonight is the catch up to my mustard heath, then right? He object. Are you ready? Get smeared over a week, Kip is revolting and has no place in society. Also. Yes, I'm ready to get smeared over waiter. But unrelated, okay? No, right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're saying allies the couch up. You would be the relic. More mustard. Okay. That's fine. Too mustards together. All right. Well, there's an unsmeared Weiner weight. And I so we're gonna cost for quick word from our first sponsor this week stamps dot com. Hi, I'm no allusions and I'm heath then. Right. And we're small business owners and after most of a decade running a small business. We've learned a few tricks of the trade that we'd like to share with you. That's right rule. Number one of owning a small business. Never count the number of hours York can only serve to depress you rule number two. If you accidents count, the hours, whatever you do don't divide the amount of money you make by that rule. Number three. If you accidents count, the hours, and then divide the amount of money you make by that amount, mitigate that depression, by using stamps dot com. That's right was stamps dot com. You can save the hassle. Go to the post office. Finding a place to park lugging your packages around stamps dot com. We'll bring all the services of the post office right to your door, except they won't put up wanted posters and stuff because that'd be weird. Yeah. Would it? Would we use stamps dot com? The male all our patriotic rewards and it saves a ton of time with stamps dot com. You can use your own computer to print official US postage twenty four hours a day seven days a week for any letter any package or any class of male. Once you're males ready, it just handed to your mail carrier. They're coming by anyway, or drop it in a mailbox. It's that simple loss with stamps dot com. You get five cents off every first class stamp, and you can save up to forty percent on priority mail. It's so easy ally. Can do it. It's a no brainer. It saves you time and money. It's no wonder over seven hundred thousand small businesses or to us stamps dot com. And right now, our listeners get a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage anodyne. Title scale without any long term commitment. That's a big plus for me like that. I know I know with the labels anyway, just go to stamps dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in scathing to get your four week trial that stamps dot com and Dir scathing. And now back to the headlines in our lead story tonight. The accuracy activists and liberty university president Jerry Falwell junior continued 'cause playing as John Lithgow the protagonist from footloose who that. Dan. And naturally that included a tweet last week suggesting that Donald Trump should get two extra years added to his first term because of the failed coup d'etat conducted by the Democrats. Just to be clear. He's referring to the criminal investigation. That's already led to seven convictions. From the Trump campaign team conducted by Republican democrat, Robert Muller. Right. Yeah. Data not the one where Russia stole a presidential election in two thousand sixteen. It's easy confused. Those. Like fake news, Khuda talk crooked Hillary. It's the I know you are. But what am I president? So here's the tweet from fall while junior quote after the best week ever for Donald Trump. No obstruction. No collusion. New York Times admits Barack Obama did spy on his campaign. What? And the economy is soaring. I now support reparations pin in that Trump should have two years added to his first term as payback for time stolen by this corrupt failed coup and quote. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing would show us. How bad failed coup is like a six houseful two years. She's fucking Christ. I don't think that means what you think it means to very few those words mean what you think they? Yeah. So I'm pretty sure the only thing in that entire tweet. That's not objectively. Incorrect was the use of one Oxford comma that was the thing. I wanna focus on one particular word. He used their member. He said. I know support. Reparations reparations that was the word. He. Jerry Falwell junior heard about the idea that centuries of slave labor represent an enormous amount of money that's owed to the African American community. And he was like, you know, who's oh similar debt. Donald Trump, basically, the same tied and over seventy five thousand people on Twitter agreed pretty much immediately. And like the tweet within two days, including the president of the United States who retweeted this about five seconds after follow posted it. Yeah. Well, the five seconds. I'm not surprised by. I'm sure Twitter's algorithm pushes any tweet with words corrupt spy and stolen Trump right away. That is you talking to you. And Trump also added some of his own commentary to falwell's tweet spoiler. Trump did not say anything like no, I will not try to illegally extend my term laws are real things. I won't do that nothing. Even similar to what I said. Instead Trump responded with the following quote, despite the tremendous success that I've had as president including perhaps the greatest economy and most successful first years of any president in history. They have stolen two years of my our presidency collusion delusion that we will never be able to get back and quote. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. We're those ones single use years. Are you even talking about? Also, did we feel it or not? Yeah. If we still it then those two years of the greatest economy and greatest success ever that was us. The day ta with our Republican democrat investigator, and if we didn't steal it because stealing from the time dimension is nonsense. Then fuck yourself. But either way I'm guessing everyone's still not clear on the reparations thing. But don't worry Trump realize that, you know, being compared to the entire African American unity might have been a little confusing. So he said a follow up tweet that said, quote, the witch hunt is over, but we will never forget, and quote, so wow. That he's owed reparations just like the victims of American slavery. It's that. Plus, he's just like all the holocaust victims to it's both right? Yeah. Exactly. If you'd wrap them all together at one burrito of self pity. Yeah. And then you gave him a Cup Christmas and in ham fisted news tonight. It's been a rough year for canam so far, and we're still early on the attendance numbers of the ark park have been singing faster than the boat. Would if you put it to see he had a host rate comfort all through Easter weekend. And that smell never comes out and this scribbling one. Yeah, he had to contend with the realization that he so fucking stupid that even Piero looks at this shitty. Says it goes all right now that's dumb. That's right, Ken ham. Doesn't know how old the world is idiot and coming up next. We'll show you how gay people make used heroin needles into HIV spreads handshake rings in our show. Thank min real thing that he said, yes. So so this story starts when host of the seven hundred club and only man with ear lobes on the top of his ears to Pat Robertson the question from you. Right. No Sheila was trying to reconcile the age of the earth that she learned a church with the fact that science says, quote dinosaurs are thousands or millions of years old and caused well it's both thousand. Millions. Gonna nail in response. Piero's basically, flew to Kentucky and smack hams books out of his hands and gave him a fuck wedgie. So he explained with a six thousand year number comes from an encounters that by saying, quote, the truth is, you know, that dinosaurs were extinct maybe two hundred or one hundred fifty excuse me out get it, right? Won't. You know, what I'll give you two orders of magnitude leeway what he got your ABS continuing quote about fifty billion. Yeah. We'll see your. Yeah. Yours and this planet has gone on much longer than that and quote much longer than the fifty billion then goes on to describe creations is science using words like nonsense and embarrassing and said, quote, it just doesn't compute and quote will. Yes. The guy who swung at the extinction of the dinosaurs. And missed by more than three and a half times the age of the universe. Just called Ken HAM's. Math embarrassing. Can him the mosquito that got trapped under Machiko flow is older than six thousand right, right? Where are you there? Yeah. Actually in this instance. Well, never wanted to shut. The fuck up Ken ham fired back on Twitter by daring, Pat Robertson to shower hams creation theme park with free publicity. He said in part, quote, I challenged the seven hundred club to bring their cameras and record our conversation. Even broadcast it live and. He he then went onto the Pat Robertson couldn't take him. Even if you tried and frantically requested not to be thrown in that brought here patch. Right next up headlines. The holy book for the second largest religion in the world advocates genocide. And so does the holy book for the first largest while we're listing stuff. No. Yeah. It does that first place one is called the bible. But for this story, we're gonna focus on Islam, and how the Koran is full of murdering stuff because it turns out. There's a children's song about it. And it's fucking terrifying. We got an extremely creepy. Reminder of the murder theme in the religion of peace this week. Thanks to video of a musical number performed by a group of kids at the Muslim American society Islam center of Philadelphia during which they literally describe beheading infidels and torturing them for all eternity. Children do that. Wow. That's fucked up. Yeah. And and that's coming from a guy who spits childhood singing about old ladies swallowing ever larger carnivores in hopes of instigating an intestinal death match. So it's the exact words from one of their songs, quote, glorious steeds, call us and lead us to the oxygen mask in Jerusalem. The blood of martyrs protects us take us oceans until we reach our shores and crushed the treacherous ones fleas rivers of martyrs and quotas so to recap that's talking horses directing a mob of. In this case singing children to mosque in Jerusalem via rivers of blood from heroin martyrs. That's what I got. Yeah. And the blood protects the mob along the way. The mob of singing children is protected by a magical shield made of blood river on the way to kill Jewish. People is the plot of that children's song. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking terrible. It doesn't even remotely rhyme. We also got a dramatic spoken word condenser. I guess during the musical program that include the following quote. We will defend Palestine with our bodies. We will chop off their heads. And we will liberate the sorrowful and exalted oxide Mosk. We will subject them to eternal, torture and quote. Yeah. And if you think the song is bad, you don't even wanna see the fucking pop up book, actually, actually, do you wanna see the the pop up? Yeah. So the release of this terrifying. Music video the Muslim American society put out a statement explaining how not all the songs were properly vetted. No mention of how not all the holy books were properly vetted either. Right. And by the way, if Islam is listening, you guys need some peer review, if you need some peer review. That the crown would be a much snappier read. If you pulled out the murderer parts is this a lot of fat in their reputation. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And while you're at it, you could drop the sexist parts NIA Barrasso, stupid apologetic and the repetitive stories of Moses without losing anything. And then you can kinda wrap that empty cover around. Any you want really? There you go you save saving so much money. Right. There point being there's no such thing as Lama phobia. A phobia is defined as an irrational fear. And I don't see anything irrational about fearing Islam or Christianity, right? There certainly is discrimination and bigotry toward Muslim people the people, and that's what made when they say, Islam phobia. But that's an incorrect. Use of the word. But yeah, that bigotry is terrible, especially considering that Muslim people as group are actually one of the biggest victims of Islam that being said the other really big victim would be the people whose genocide is called for in the Koran and that would be everyone else. All everyone else. It says the book not making that up. It says murder nonbelievers until those people run out of people seriously. So more of a story is Lomb Christianity and Judy. Awesome shouldn't be legal until they amend their books. Plus a bunch of other religions to probably yeah. Right. So we talked to Andrew about suing the religions we're gonna pause for a quick word for our next sponsor ZipRecruiter. For job. Oh, and what makes you think you'd be a good fit here at puzzling thunderstorm. A fight builder. Yeah. Not a lot of Ersan combat in the position that we're trying to fill here. Our most looking for somebody to do clerical work. Make sure ally remembers to wear pants to live events stuff like that. A fight to you as this ever happened to you, probably not, but one way or the other hiring is a challenge. But luckily, there's one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. And that place is ZipRecruiter dot com slash scathing ZipRecruiter sends your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and fights them to apply to your job. In fact, ZipRecruiter so affected that four out of five employers post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. It's the best option. Whether you're looking for fulltime help part time help or somebody to punch up your average. When he lies at atone. I feel like I'm doing fine. Okay. Thank you. And right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash scathing. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash SEA. T h I n g ZipRecruiter dot com slash scathing. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. I feel like that was punchy. I I did a voice and everything you sure did. It was. Eastern European taxing guy who's bekker's Becky, okay? They'll do. A man by the horse which legitimate rates cooking. Defy. This week in MRs. Look, I don't want this to be this week in abortion. I really don't I actually know a lot of secular women who have mixed feelings about abortion that being said mixed fillings is a long ways from wants to outlaw and like it or not abortion is the not Suthin wedge into rolling back women's rights across the board. And if you don't believe that look how seamlessly they transitioned from the fight against abortion to the fight against contraception and all forms, so. Yeah. Self-appointed Georgia governor Brian Kemp. Went ahead and signed that in possibly onerous abortion Bill. We talked about last time under the new law, which is set to take effect on January first it will be legal for a woman to have an abortion as soon as a fetal heartbeat as detectable a thing that generally occurs before a woman could conceivably know, she was pregnant, so if you want an abortion and Georgia yet just after go in and have a preemptive one every month and a half or so now, there's no. No question the under the current law. This is unconstitutional. The supreme court has been striking down far less. Cumbersome restrictions for the last fifty years. And there's no question that any previous court in my lifetime would do the same to this one. But this isn't any of those quirks and the whole point of this fucking laws for it to wind up in front of the Trump packed high court now off the record assurances to Susan Collins aside, there's every reason to believe that this court will overturn Roe the first chance they get. But there may still be hope as we saw in Kansas last week the state supreme court. There was presented with a case that affectively banned all second trimester abortions by banning the most common and safest method used for them. The law diplomatically called the Kansas unborn child protection from dismember bit abortion act was passed in two thousand fifteen but was immediately blocked by district. Judge over the last few years is worked its way up to the state supreme court, which basically took a look at the law and said not only does this violate the constitution. Violates the God damn preamble. That's right. There legal argument is that the law, violates the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness part and have no legal scholar, or so I can't really comment on the legal mayor of the argument. But the logical arguments seem pretty fucking sound. Of course, never wants to be deterred by the realize -ation that the violating basic human rights. Antiabortion activists are now shifting tactics in an effort to add an abortion ban to the state's constitution. So don't worry. I'm sure I'll have some bad news to offset this story. And until then I'll hand things back over to know antiques. Thank you LUSA engine. Pews will not replace us news tonight, I cover some encouraging demographic news on the show recently. Let me out. This place. According to a new survey by the Pew Research Center, fully half of Americans believe that Christians face discrimination in the US despite being the Qadam majority and having actual KOTA fide laws giving them extra bonus rights. So first and foremost, the survey confirms that the reason efforts to redefine discrimination in such a way as that applies to people not being allowed to discriminate against other people is working. Yeah. Dislike all those sexual assault laws that were foisted upon men without our consent. It's yeah. Right. Okay. So fuck I should know that that's the only disturbing take away from the survey. So the survey looked at nine categories of people ask fifteen hundred respondents, whether those groups face a lot of discrimination some discrimination or none at all and for an atheist show. Yes, the key. Takeaway is that fifty percent of Americans have deluded themselves into believing that evangelical Christians face discrimination. Like, not just Christians specifically the least discriminated against group. The most powerful subgroup of Christians that is in current charge of the goddamn government at every level. But it would be a crime to report on this story without at least mentioning that twenty percent of Americans seem to think that black people face no discrimination in this country. What? Yup. Quarter of them feel the same way about LGBT people and his Spanish X and nearly a third don't think women face discrimination either. Like thirty one percent, okay. Say though, I'm not convinced. Those people are familiar with the numbers and words, you're using. So maybe. Then again laws are discriminatory against criminals. So that's rough for the criminals, it's like explaining the to Drax at the end of gardens the galaxy. My find a gay person irksome and remove their spine. Okay. Well, that would be murder pretty much the biggest crime, that's legal. All right. So in addition to presenting the results of the survey pew also compare them with the same question asked three years ago. The biggest shift in the data was sharp rise in the number of people who recognize the discrimination that Jews face, right? Okay. So some discrimination rose from forty four percent sixty four percent and a lot rose from thirteen to twenty four. Yeah. No all star thing insanely low. But I I was in courage to see that the number of people who recognize that misogyny is a thing did rise nine percent all the way to sixty nine percent. But the third biggest shift over the last three years was the uptick and people buying into the Christian persecution dilution. And in milk money news tonight, satanic temple is now officially attacks exempt religious organization approved by the IRS bands. Yes, it is. Yes, it is courting to a press release from magnolia pictures, which just released their new documentary about the temple called hail Satan with question Mark at the end early Cording to pictures, full religion status in lawsuits and tax exemptions. For donations have been granted to the so-called religion of the prince of darkness, or at least. That's the lie. They were forced to tell in order to get this approval. Yeah. Right. I don't know all the locations just yet. But a pretty sure this means that when you put money in the swear jar its tax exempt. It's got damn. So there's been a debate in these secular humanist community about whether the hypocrisy of accepting this bullshit tax exemption. That's only available to religious organizations is worth the benefit of the new status strangely enough. There's no debate about that among legal scholars who know how to read the constitution. Yeah. Those people are aware that the very first amendment says none of this should be necessary. So there's that, but those people aren't empower enough, sadly, and here's the explanation, we got from satanic temple co-founder Lucian graves, he basically described the move as the best available strategy, given the current set of nonsense rules that exist according to graves quote. This will assure that the seatac temple has the same access to public spaces as other religious organizations. Affirmat- standing in court when battling religious discrimination and enable the temple to apply for faith-based government grants and quote. Yeah. No. I'm with him. It's like, okay. So, you know, like, even if you're against the electoral college, you should still participate in it. It's like. Yeah. Maybe stop in at the rust belt once or twice whoever twenty twenty. So yeah, I definitely appreciate the argument that if we're fighting against the negative influence religion. We wanna have all the same advantages that are opponent has especially when it comes to fundraising and legal status. But I get the feeling that the federal government is not going to understand the absurdity of the situation that's being pointed out here, and I'm confident that because we just saw the idiot Christian theocrat in the federal government choose to give special status to a group named after the magical demon of supreme in there. Rather than just make religious follow the law and pay taxes like everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, right. If they didn't burn the house down when they had to let the Mormons, and they're not gonna burn down the fucking house guys. Exactly. So if you're atheist and you're wondering why the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment, which by the way was granted to African Americans in eighteen sixty eight by the people in charge of America in eighteen sixty eight. Yeah, if you're wondering why that doesn't apply to non believers in twenty nineteen don't worry, you can get the full suite of American human rights now at who is. Sign up Tannock temple and agree with the way, they spend their money to be clear, I probably do agree with their politics. But this is the dumbest possible singing can't just have human rights for being human. I have to do this whole stupid life thing. If only you were a corporation, right? And now that we have to draft a corporate charter for heath co I guess we're gonna close the headlines for the night heath. Thanks as always Jumanji and will become back. Andrew Seidel will be too polite to correct me when I mispronounced his surname front entire interview. It's it's sytle, by the way, not Sidell those Despites know about to say over and over again like Erik Seidel the poker player. I thought it was say good correction. Hey, he still working on that website for later cheese. Yeah. Yeah. So I learned Java python and HTML. And now, I've just got to learn linear, b and Esperanto. No, I'm telling you. It doesn't have to be that hard you need to try wicks dot com. What's wicks dot com? What are you the memento guys for the ad just for that? Go right. Yeah. Okay. Which dot com is the most technologically advanced website building platform available, but is still easy to use. You can choose from over five hundred stunning templates or start from scratch. You can change customize add anything you want me ask something exactly how stunning are those templates. You said stunt, oh of very very, very, okay. Plus, you can start in published for free all their sites include Bilton SEO tolls that will help you get found online and ensure. Engines like Google, and and being is also in the copy, but I think later cheese is gonna need a pretty advanced website. So well wicks can give it to you. You'll get the tools you need to create the website. You want unlimited storage, custom domain Email addresses for your business, Email marketing, tools, premium apps and dedicated support team. All right. No, I am convinced. How do I try it? We can get started now by going to wicks dot com. That's W I X dot com slash podcast to get ten percent off. Wicks dot com slash podcast, wakes dot com slash podcast last week. We called upon our listeners to give us more money. And they did they're the best. So this week. We're asking you all to go ahead and keep doing that. We've already blown past our goal to make the patriot on only pajama party livestream a reality. And now we've added new goals. So you make a stew ever-more embarrassing shit on camera. Now, unfortunately, allies not here because you know, nothing says no we really need you to donate like taking a week long trip to Europe on a moment's notice. But he was nice enough to leave some of his characters behind as you know. One of our biggest goals at puzzling thunderstorm is to launch a whole bunch more podcasts. No, no, it isn't. And it it's not a sad. Those is off with our beloved mascot, Carl the pug a peg corn. I work a hundred and sixty four hours a week to remind you what you're patriots dollars might do. We're pleased to present the pilot episode of kicking it with Carl. He's a pug, and he's also a Yuna corn. You know, that's a horse that has Hawn. But don't forget. He's bagasse two dots called a pag on. And he likes you. It's kicking. We'll call. Oh. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to kicking it with garl-. My guest today is bad Gaster. No allusions. No, welcome to the show. What the fuck is happening. Just go with it. Okay. Hey, Carl thanks for having me. So you all a bad Casta? Yes. I am. And do you like garlic bread? Sure. We gotta go like red lover over. You know, what that Bates? What does that full recipe roundup as recipe comes from all recipes dot com and is titled toasted garlic bread. He's gonna read a recipe as the dog isn't he cut one large loaf of Italian bread into slices of one to two inch thickness combined five softened tablespoons of butter tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil little tip here by a Californian olive oil. If you're in the United States three grow that cloves and these Boone of dried oregano in a small bowl and then spread that evenly over your Brits Lices. No, let me ask you a Mexican or a Greek oregano guy, we used to have such look at normal atheism show. Tastic? I'm Carl did you have a question for me about podcasting? I did not. Well, that's all the time. We got for day for join us next week when we'll have Nick Kroll to promote his new documentary. Why do people keep by ring Nick Kroll? He's a pug, and he's unit cone, you know, that's horse has a horn. But don't forget he's a Pegasus to that's called a pug APAC cone, and he likes you it's kicking with hall. So don't forget to head over to patriot dot com slash scathing atheist and make your pledge today. We've added new rewards and even more patriotic bonus content. And if you pledge enough Andrew has to play twister with us in his pajamas. That's we have it in writing. We have it in writing. Excellent. That's Rex legitimately and writing. Please don't deny me that will be curious as well pleased to not fuck this up. In two thousand ten purely to survey showing that atheist tended to know significantly more about the bible, then those who profess to be the word of God. And as unsurprising these results were to we nonbelievers, many atheist still aren't themselves for debates with Christians by studying up on theology and scripture, but today's Christian, especially today's American Christian increasingly grounds, their arguments, not in theology, but in history or some allusion airy variant thereof, and that means that atheist need to turn increasingly to history to refute them. Well, thanks to my guest today that just got a lot easier. Andrew Sidell is a constitutional attorney with the freedom for religion foundation, and the author of the upcoming book the founding myth. Why Christian nationalism is unamerican? Andrew welcome to the scathing atheist. Thank you so much for having me on. It's a pleasure. I gotta say usually when I have a lawyer on named Andrew it's not you. Isn't that Torres guy? Yeah. I feel like I'm committing and droll -tory. That's one of the commandments. Man. You gotta be right, right. Yeah. Exactly. Are Chris our nation was founded on these things happen. Okay. So speaking of that every good book needs a good villain. So let's start with the villain here. Just so that we're all working from the same definition one is Christian nationalism Christian nationalism is the idea that the United States was founded as a Christian nation or founded on today. Oh, Christian principles, and that it needs to go back to that foundation. Right now. Wait is now a wildly popular view used to be sort of this kind of impotent side show that really the only the extreme fringes of more conservative politics adopted. But now it is in the mainstream, and it is actually the reason that Donald Trump is president. Yeah. Your book you present some damn convincing statistics that that is the primary factor. Really? And this is not my research. This is Andrew another Andrew, Andrew Whitehead. Out of Clemson has done some brilliant work on this. And he actually examined the data from the twenty sixteen election. The biggest predictor of whether or not somebody was going to be a Trump voter was not their political party, which is kind of amazing. It was not their socioeconomic status despite all the stories that tell us otherwise it wasn't even whether or not they were a Christian wasn't their religion. It was whether or not they were Christian nationalist. That was the number one factor that made somebody a Trump voter. So we we don't just see Christian nationalism. As this weird side, showing war. It is the reason Donald Trump is president. He rode this wave of Christian nationalism in to the highest office in the land. Yeah. It was pretty obvious. That was his goal is soon as as soon as the picked Mike Pence as VP there. And they they been remarkably good at at employing the rhetoric any Trump is I think he's he's atrocious public speaker. But a lot of Christian nationalism is focused on the. These these myths and really the underlying emotion of what it means to be an American and Trump is is very good and has become even better since he's entered office at playing those those Christian, nationalist, heartstrings NFL. It's a little bit alarming to see in my opinion. Yeah. This this from a Presbyterian that had to ask another Presbyterian. Whether that was a kind of Christian. I'm okay. So now, we know that you, and I know anyway that America was not founded as a Christian nation. So why does it matter to them so much to build this mythical history? I mean, it's incredibly important because a lot of their political power is tied up in it. So the lies surrounding whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, all these myths that they have about the American founding and prayer at the constitutional convention phrases like in God, we trust one nation under God, God bless America. All of that those lies makeup, the Christian, nationalist, identity and bad. Is where they get their political power. These lies are driving public policy. We see education policy immigration policy, civil rights, women's rights, minority rights LGBTQ rates, even our foreign policy when they moved the Cima embassy in Israel and prominently these days in the redefinition of religious freedom as basically a complication of discrimination. I mean judges now are deciding cases based on these lies admits, so it's not just in the culture war issues, but in many areas beyond that, I mean if you had to put it simply it would be the lies are destroying our country. Really there knowing away at our liberty. I think that we the people have duty to stand up to the lies and to the bullies pushing them. Yeah. The constitution doesn't invoke God. But it sure invokes us. Yeah. Absolutely. Does right there in the first three words. All right. So the whole argument is that the like she says that the government the legal system it cetera. Are grounded in Judeo Christian principles. Now, this is a question that people don't ask enough, but you address a really well in your book, what our Judeo Christian principles, and that question was actually one of the things that kind of led me to write this book because if you've ever had a debate about whether or not we're Christian nation, and you know, you know, even the most basic facts about American history of of your eighties tend to go straight to the treaty of Tripoli when somebody claims that we're a Christian nation. But the fallback position is always. Well, I actually didn't mean the we're Christian nation. I meant that were founded on Judeo Christian principles. And and I had this argument for a living. I mean, this is a big part of what I do the freedom from religion foundation's try to get government officials to stop using their public office to promote their personal religion. And I'll write them a letter and explain hey, you can't tell a kindergartners and first graders to pray before they go down to lunch. That's illegal in one of the things that will always get back is. Well, actually, we were founded as Chris. Nation. So that's okay. So I I've been having this argument for a living, and the argument that I kept hearing in return was after it was debunked. Well, we're founded on today. Oh, Christian principles, and whenever you follow up on that will well may want what what is your day? Oh, Christian principle. It people did not have a good answer for that. But Christian nationalist did not have a good answer for that. So I said about figure out, you know, exactly what what is it you Christian principle in how could it possibly have influenced the founding of our nation. It turns out that if you look at those today oh Christian principles, especially the ones that are central to the Christian, nationalist identity. They are so thoroughly opposed to the principles on which the United States was built. I mean, they different that conflict to such greed that to put it bluntly as I do in the book Christianity is on American. So okay, let's compare them. What would a nation that was actually built on day? Oh, Christian values. Look like, it would look a lot like the early settlements in Massachusetts that the pilgrims and the Puritans created. I think those were these sort of monochromatic theocracies that really worked to enforce religious conformity and uniformity using the government. And and if you saw government founded on Christian principles today, I think it would look a lot like that. India might look a lot like what we would see in the Middle East now just with a different religion as as the the motivating factor any go to tie into the previous question a little bit. So those Judeo Christian principles if you listen to the believers, it's it's the main principles in the bible. It's the principles in the ten commandments. And generally if you talk to any person any American out on the street, they tend to think of those as. Positive good principles. But once you dig in you find out that they're really not. Okay. So. Yeah. You touched on this already a little bit. But most of the time when Theus are called upon to refute Christian nationalism. They go straight to the tree Tripoli. Right. And that's good, right? The United States is in no way. A Christian nation is a pretty good quote to have in your back pocket, but the Christian national association have quotes in their back pocket, and they can present those and make it seem like the founding fathers are also saying the opposite your book does a lot more than that. If you don't mind, can you expound a little bit on what your plan of attack was when you set out to refute their narrative. Yes, I so there I mean, and there are a lot of even good Christian nation Christian nation, quote, unquote books out there that to pretty good job of refuting the myth. But I wanted to I wanted to take a different tack than so there are two main differences. I think between my book in some of the other folks that are out there. The first is again, it is soon as we debunked that Christian nation. They always fall back on I meant founded on Christian principles. So I actually focus on that. Second myth because if it pervades all the other Christian nationalist arguments out there if America was not founded on Christian principles. It is not a Christian nation all of their other arguments failed and well, many authors have refuted that first fiction Christian nation. Nobody's ever touched that second. So I went and I compared today. Oh, Christian principles to our founding principles. I compare the bible to the constitution. I compare the ten commandments to the ten amendments. And I really walked the reader through in or you not only that we were not founded on your day. Oh, Christian principles. But again that those principles are oppose to the values that founded America's that's let's kind of first big difference in the second. Big difference was my approach your previous books have offered. They've offered gentle corrections to the Christian nationalist, actually, guys. Here's what history tells us. Here's what the founders actually meant. Here's what the founders actual. We said big hind leave it at that. But correction is not enough. Otherwise, President Trump be President Trump also go on the offensive this book isn't assault on the Christian nationalist identity. Not only are Christian nationalist wrong, their beliefs identity, run counter to the ideals on which this nation was founded they are unaware again. And I think that's really kind of critical because we are in a fight for what it means to American. They want to say that to being American is to be a Christian, but patriotism has no religion. And honestly, this is not a fight that we can afford to lose. But well said well said while tell you what you are. Absolutely speaking our audiences language, when you talk about going on the offensive, but I want to give you a chance to respond to a potential criticism that I think you'll probably run into in the book, you say things like, you know, Christian principles are on American you compare God to grill in a threat display. Are you worried that you're turning away potentially sympathetic Christian readers when you say stuff like that? Not not particularly I mean, you know, calling out Christian nationalism as unamerican, I can I can understand maybe why that might be distasteful to so people who make the word on American might make some people squeamish because there's this inherent value judgment in it. But but the point I'm trying to make as we are in a fight for our values America's in a fight for its values in Christian nationalism is warping and torching those values. It's dragging our country down this dark hole so to hesitate to describe that identity with apt phrases because they might be unpleasant is to see the American identity to imposter to refuse the label that which is Anthony to America's to wash Christian nationalist hijacker nation. Yeah. The the the thing is is that they certainly aren't avoiding that. Right. Like, so it would be under lateral disarmament. If we did that that's a great way to put it. I think that makes that makes perfect sense. Absolutely. Yeah. It's also kind of the principle that this show is founded on us. Well, all right. So there now the book is broken down into four sections the first section kind of deals with the quotes, and you go into more the stuff that you were just discussing and then the book sort of closes off with a lot of discussion about the Christian phrases that have sort of crapped into our our government language. God bless America one nation under God at cetera. These are you know, we cover a lot of this stuff on the show and invariably get atheists that'll comment on the little right in and say, hey, man, these fights don't matter, right. Like, the the fights that manner are the fights for gay rights in the fights for this that the other, you know, whatever their XYZ issues are as the most important ones. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Why do fights like this matter so much? That's an excellent question. It's something that is especially working that we get in our work all the time. And I've given a talk repeatedly on some sure there's a version of on YouTube somewhere called selling usually titled sweat, the small stuff why important to challenge these small violations it, especially when you're talking about these phrases like in God, we trust her one nation under God, they are symbols. And we disregard the power of symbols at our own peril. Greta Christina wrote a great piece on this once end she pointed out that segregated drinking fountains were really the biggest problem facing the civil rights movement. Segregated lunch. Counters weren't really that a deal, but they were symbolic of the larger fight and important to tear down those symbols for that reason. So I think that I think that's something that everybody needs to keep my they can certainly go. Check out the talk that I think gave it one of the F R F convention. And you know, as I'm answering that I'm thinking about another another point to your previous question about turning certain members of my audience off with with some maybe stronger language, and I should say to I don't think I'm gonna convince Christian nationalists with this book to change their minds. I'm aiming at at secular Americans and the middle section of the country trying to wake them up and arm them for this argument. So that they can turn around and when they hear a Christian nationalist 'bout this nonsense. Correct. That error shout at argument down defeat them. So that it doesn't get repeated and end up in our legislation or in a court case of a judge citing it in a court case to decide the law eroneous lease. Yeah. Which is a real thing by the weather that that that ever points out in his book that that it's not a hypothetical there. It is absolutely not I pathetically. I have seen that happen. And I could say, you know, as. Person who just read the book, you do a great job of exactly that. I, you know, I because you know, the arguments are worse than you think if you just have like sort of cursory understanding of American history as I do, and you have a cursory understanding of the law, you can refute these arguments pretty convincingly, but they are actually way worse than you think. And this book does a great job. I think of arming you with not just the the baseline reputation, but like you said the offensive bit that goes after that. Right. Absolutely. That that is the primary goal of if you take things like in God, we trust her one nation under God since we were just talking about those, you know, most of your listeners probably know that those are not from the founding era in God. We trust was first added to their coins in eighteen sixty three sixty four and in the nineteen fifties. We saw his shoes wave and they'll leave it at that. But that actually tells us, and if you look at history tells us even more than Christian nationalists used deliberately they took advantage of time. Of strife and division in this country to impose their religion on everybody else. I mean, it was deliberately done the one of the Christian nationalist who's responsible for getting in. God we trust on our money specifically said that during the civil war when our country's tearing itself apart brothers killing brothers that that was a quote pro piteous time, it was lucky that was going on because they could get the money or the guy there got on our might. Yeah. Unbelie. Well, luckily, we're not in a divisive time where the country is rent apart now where they could really get their foot in the door. So thanks for the book. Thanks for the information. Thanks for the great read those. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having meal. I really appreciate it. Yeah. You bet. And if you're as excited about the book as I was before I read it the book is available for preorder. Now it's releasing on may fourteenth. It's densely packed with information, but still manages to be a really fun, easy read. So if you wanna learn once more that the Christian arguments are even worse than you thought check the show notes for a link to preorder your copy once again, the name of the book is the founding myth white Christian nationalism is unamerican by Andrew L Seidel. You gotta have an initial if you wanna be a great author after all Andrew thanks again for hanging out, man. It is absolutely by pleasure. Before we straighten your ear backout tonight. I wanna tease you little bit. Andrew title was kind enough to stick around after the interview for a patriotic -clusive where shared what he believed to be the two biggest legal battles facing the wall. Seperation was the answer. I kind of expected the other wasn't and it was goddamn terrifying. So if you're not already a patron be sure to check out patriot dot com. Scathing ATS, get your extended episodes, get not one. But two AMA episodes this month get early access to an average show. Get Merced discounts and rewards and make Adra Torres. Go left hand red. Anyway, that's all the blast move got for tonight. But we back in ten thousand twenty two minutes with more game with Lobi and look for brand sort of our sister show the skeptical debut at seven AM eastern time on Monday, uneven new episode of our sister shows hot friend got off moves day being at seven AM eastern on Tuesday. In an even newer episode of half sister show citation needed debut at noon eastern on Wednesday this after thank he then right for not abandoning us right before all the matriarch stuff. I also want to thank you Bosnich four abandoning us right before all the matriarch stuff. Honestly, probably a lot fewer goals that we're going to get sued over this way. Also wanna think the lovely and talented loose. Delusions for lending us, the lovely talent. Once again this week. I wanna thank Andrew site. One more time for hanging out. Also wanna thank Jordan from Jordan Norman and the wisdom teeth for providing this week's Farnsworth, quote, if you want to give them a listen, you'll find a link on the show notes, but most of all, of course, I want to thank this week's small army of new donors who apparently don't think I can do this in one breath. Here we go. Sandy bone about Merck. Max Ryan Lewis, Leslie, petty, Rachel, Brandon, Kevin Christian, Adam share and Sammy Steve Michelle char. Stacey Matthew Nicole star late Limerick me Ross trips. Luna. Yes, jamie. Jason, Jennifer, John, Ben, Robert TC hooligan. Dylan Robin, Jake Matt Bryant, Bob, Michael, Danny pulse. Go beard, Martha Patrick window cleaner. Uncle manchester. Keeley Angie, doom Nola, go about whole, Chris Charlotte. PS Timothy Stuart Scott, Marcus, Andhra, Napoleon faster and Evan David FOX skulls transformation secrets. Julia, emily. Andy j Caleb seventy William humanness turtles cyber BG Harrison, a dragon and travek Rosa, Corey era grand prix, Daniel miles Nogan cuddle in guy. Peter just a peach the Fokker and I'm strike. Find a logical reason why spend this money. Who's intellectual mortgage patience than my lungs had to be to get through that give me a second together. These one hundred three people didn't quite get my lung limit. But maybe next week's donors can do it. Also, by the way, a belated thanks to, sir. Harry the blind whose gives the Hubble telescope deep penetration envy. And who donated a while back, but slip through the cracks when it came to thanking people. Sorry about that, sir. Harry palms the blind anyway legals versus for this podcast provided p Andrew Torres. Tim Robinson, our social media and audio engineers Morten Clark, Royal the music that was using this episode which was us with mission of questions comes death threats from final the contacting the contact page is gaining ADS dot com. And boy is this paragraph say after doing all those hundred and three names. Korea catch up once in a while those good like little dip. But that's because it's you know, the extent dodge it had nothing else. It's good. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. Fuck ketchup. The preceding podcast was production of puzzle. Thunderstorm, LLC copyright, twenty nineteen all rights reserved right now out with the old and. Credibly reliable internet. The old and in with a simple easy. Awesome. Click call of its features not available areas.
NPR News: 01-22-2021 7PM ET
"Live from npr news. I'm jack speer. President biden says that delaying the impeachment. Trial the former president. Donald trump would give the senate time to confirm his cabinet. Npr's asia rosco reports. That house speaker. Nancy pelosi plans to transmit articles of impeachment to the senate on monday. Senate minority leader mitch. Mcconnell has asked him across to delay the start of the impeachment trial until mid february president biden said he was not familiar with the details of mcconnell's plan but that pushing the trial back with give his administration more time to get officials in place running these crises bird biden has declined to weigh in on whether his predecessor should be convicted by the senate and possibly banned from holding federal office. Trump is charged with inciting insurrection after his supporters stormed the capital stirred by trump's false claims of a stolen election. I sh- roscoe. Npr news the white house. This hour senate majority leader. Chuck schumer announced. Trump's impeachment will start the week of february eighth at a signing ceremony at the white house. Today president bind said the. Us economic crisis is deepening. Due to the coronavirus pandemic and action is needed now to help struggling americans by noting that some people are barely hanging on in the government needs to act decisively and boldly to help those who are seeing paychecks reduced or eliminated entirely while saying we cannot change trajectory of the pandemic in the next few months. The president is calling for people to wear masks. He said a goal of one hundred million co vaccinations in the first one hundred days of his presidency president biden his reinstating building standards meant to protect against floods. Npr's rebecca hersher reports the standards had been repealed by the trump administration. President biden included the building standards and one of the executive orders. He signed shortly after he took office. The standards were originally put in place by the obama administration but we're rescinded by the trump administration in two thousand seventeen the standards apply to federally funded buildings including government buildings hospitals public housing and water treatment plants. The must be constructed in ways that protect against floods for example by elevating the first floor off the ground flooding is getting more frequent and severe in many parts of the us because of climate change. The standard is meant to protect against both sea level rise and extreme rainstorms rebecca hersher npr news pharmaceutical maker pfizer's pledging to provide up to forty million doses of its covid nineteen vaccine this year as part of a global effort to get shots to poor and middle income countries. Deal announced today will supply the shots who program known as covax visor. German partner biontech will provide the doses at an undisclosed not for profit price over the course of this year. A mixed close on wall street today. The dow was down one hundred seventy nine points. The nasdaq gained twelve points. The standard and poor's five hundred was down eleven points today to close at thirty eight. Forty one this is. Npr on the forty eighth anniversary of the nineteen seventy three supreme court decision legalizing abortion in the us. Republicans in kansas are advancing an any abortion memo to the state constitution measure past today the kansas state house on an eighty six to thirty eight vote next goes to the state senate for debate. Possibly by next week the men would overturn it two thousand and nineteen kansas supreme court decision declaring abortion a fundamental right under the state's of writes a major new study helps resolve a critical question about how to treat covid nineteen patients in the hospital. Npr's richard harris reports the latest on blood thinning drugs. Doctors noticed early on that many covid patients develop potentially dangerous blood clots but they weren't sure when and how to use blood thinning drugs. A large new study finds people in intensive care should get only small doses of blood thinners while people elsewhere in the hospital with kovic should get a full. Does dr matthew kneel at the university of pittsburgh medical center run the study and send. The result is a surprise. We thought the benefit may well have been in the sickest patients. But what we're seeing now is that the benefit seems to be for patients who are more moderately ill study findings have so far been reported in a press release from the national institutes of health. But neal says the details should be available in days to weeks richard harris. Npr news twitter announced. Today it's permanently banning account linked to the office of iran's supreme leader officials with the microblogging sites. They decision falls posting a picture that appears to show former president. Donald trump playing golf in the shadow of large drone over other accounts tied as a premier have not been pulled down. This is npr.
NPR News: 04-12-2020 2PM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Barbara Klein with more than five hundred thirty. Two Thousand Corona Virus Infections in the US the trump administration is floating the possibility that some parts of the country will be able to return to normal beginning may first but NPR's Nell Greenfieldboyce reports. The administration is also trying to temper expectations. The commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration Steven Hahn spoke on this week from ABC News. He said the model show were close to the peak. And that may I is one possible target date but we've got to get the data as they come in. We have to look at what we know about this illness. What's happened in other countries and put them into the situation to the plan? Moving forward he says testing shows there are hotspots with lots of people infected but some places have fewer cases surgeon. General drome Adams however said on Fox News that most of the country won't be able to reopen by may first. He said it will happen. Bit By bit place by place. Based on the data Nell Greenfieldboyce. Npr News Spain is beginning to rollback virus. Measures as the rate of new cases declines their Lucia Ben Evita's reports non essential businesses will return to normal activity. Tomorrow as the number of new cases declines. Spain's interior minister said the will hand out ten million facemasks to public transit users on Monday as thousands of people had to work again. Central Government also asked companies to provide protective gear and ensure workers maintain a distance of six feet but some health experts say the move comes too early and advice that these rollback measures should be accompanied by mass testing and the of a program that would isolate new corona virus carriers. The general locked down is in place until April twenty-sixth but will likely be extended for NPR. News I'm Lucy this in more Ya Spain. The Pope Francis celebrated Easter mass today. Inside a vast empty Saint Peter's Basilica NPR Sylvia Poggioli reports. He called for Global Solidarity. As the world tackles the pandemic Pope Francis said. The pandemic is testing our whole human family. This is not a time for indifference. Self-centeredness Division and forgetfulness. He praised doctors. Nurses policemen and others on the front line of the virus emergency. He called on politicians to provide resources for everyone in need for international sanctions to be lifted and for debt relief for poor nations. He called for an end to conflicts in all the hot spots of the world most forcefully he expressed concern for the future of Europe which he said is presently facing an epochal challenge on which will depend not only its future but that of the whole world Sylvia Poggioli. Npr News Rome this is NPR churches in. Kansas are having to abide by governor. Laura Kelly's order to limit gatherings to ten people this Easter Sunday a Republican Legislative Committee voted to revoke the order but the Kansas Supreme Court has voted to uphold it. Liquor stores in South Africa are being looted more and more after the government announced. Its planning to ban alcohol sales during a three week. Lockdown Ish Muffin. Equa- reports representatives of liquor sellers are appealing to the government to allow some stores to stay open organizations such as the Association of South Africa. Say they support the government's measures to curb the spread of the virus but the sales Bam has resulted in. Many people are losing their jobs. They are also raising concerns about the looting of leaker stores and a spike in production of home brewed. Leaker however tough talking police minister. Becky Taylor says the ban will stay. Failure points out that during the ban crime has fallen. The general lockdown which was supposed to end on the sixteenth has now been extended to April thirtieth for NPR news. I'm each month. Ndukwe INARI the partner of wikileaks founder. Julian assange says he fathered her two children while he was in refuge at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London assange is now in a London prison awaiting an extradition hearing to the US next month. I'm Barbara Klein NPR news.
NPR News: 04-10-2020 1PM ET
"Live from NPR news. I'm Lakshmi Singh. The United States is transitioning through a particularly difficult period. Which for many across the. Us is holy week but NPR's amy held reports. Experts are seeing positive signs in the corona virus response raising hopes. The country will reopen gradually federal social distancing guidelines are only in effect till the end of the month from places will be able to think about opening on. May First Surgeon General. Dr Jerome Adams Tells Fox News. There is no one-size-fits-all reopening of the country. Most of the country will not to be honest with you. But that's how were we opened the country place by place bit by bit. Based on the data the data show death rates are up but hospitalization rates are showing. Promise Dr Anthony Fauci Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious. Diseases spoke to CNN looking like that in many cases particularly in New York. We're starting to see a flattening and a turning around a Seinfeld she says. Social distancing is not only working but must be accelerated meantime. He says new antibody test will soon become available. Amy held NPR news. Kansas Democratic governor. Laura Kelly is taking a group of Republican legislative leaders to court for blocking her order. Banning large gatherings a churches in funerals. She issued the order after public. Health officials trae several cases of corona virus. Two churches still holding services. Jim McLean of Kansas. New Service has the latest. Kelly is suing a leadership committee controlled by Republicans for rescinding an order. She says is necessary to slow the spread of the corona virus. The order expanded an existing statewide ban on gatherings of more than ten people to include. Church services and funerals. The lawsuit filed with the Kansas. Supreme Court argues the lawmakers exceeded their authority. This is not a normal disagreement about policy or politics. The actions of the Republican legislative leaders jeopardize both the health and safety of cans the Republican lawmakers criticised Kelly for abandoning efforts to reach a compromise. The court will hear arguments tomorrow and is expected to rule before Easter Sunday for NPR news. I'm Jim McLean in Topeka so far the. Us Navy hospital ship. Mercy has admitted a total of thirty nine patients since docking in the port of Los Angeles as of yesterday there were nineteen patients on board. Captain John Rock. The commanding officer says so far. They've taken patients with anything from appendicitis to acute injuries from a car accident. And I think the Calculus was to get us here early before. La County kind of a crisis situation so that we could really develop those relationships with the local hospitals with Fema our lead agency and really smooth out the processes for bringing Asians aboard the ship. The mercy is still a Non Cove nineteen facility though in Paris. Good Friday services with readings. Prayers and music continued from the fire. Recovery site of Notre Dame cathedral did so without a crowd the US markets are closed for. Good Friday you're listening to. Npr News and now Turkey where the health ministry says more than four thousand people have come down with grown virus in the last twenty four hours one of the highest daily infection rates on the planet. Npr's Peter Kenyon reports more than nine hundred people have died from the virus in Turkey. Turkey has not been hit as hard as Iran. But it's quickly catching up as its infection. Rate continues to be high. The Turkish government scrambled to deal with the health. Emergency banning large gatherings closing many businesses and requiring face masks and other protective gear in public settings in addition to dealing with its own cases. Onkar has been active in sending medical masks and protective gear to other countries. A plane load of ninety five masks and has met suits took off for Britain according to the state news agency with a second load scheduled to be sent. Saturday preview shipments went to Italy Spain. And the Balkans Peter Kenyon. Npr News. Bul Boris Johnson's father reportedly says the British Prime Minister needs time to recover from the krona virus and is unlikely to be back at work anytime soon. The fifty five year old British leader spent three nights in intensive care at Saint. Thomas Saint Thomas's Hospital in London after his cove. Nineteen symptoms got worse. The Mexican government is reporting more than one hundred of its citizens have died from cove in nineteen related to the outbreak in the United States. But the actual number could be higher. Mexico's foreign ministry says the figures only include deaths reported to its consulates about million Mexicans live in the United States me saying NPR news in Washington.
Will Roe v. Wade Be Overturned?
"I'm jeffrey rosen. President and ceo the national constitution center and welcome to we the people who weekly show of constitutional debate. The national constitution center is a nonpartisan. Nonprofit chartered by congress to increase awareness and understanding of the constitution among the american people. Supreme court recently agreed to hear a challenge to a mississippi law banning abortion at fifteen weeks. The case could call into question. The future of roe v wade on today's we the people we break down the constitutional arguments for and against row. So that you we. The people listeners can make up your own minds and To do that. We're privileged to be joined by of america's leading scholars of the constitution. Lebron is assistant professor of law at michigan law. She's also one of the co hosts and creators of strict scrutiny. A podcast about the. Us supreme court Leah it is wonderful to have you back on the show. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me and theresa stanton. College is professor at the university of saint thomas school of law where she serves as director of the schools. Pro-life center theresa. It is wonderful to welcome to the people delighted to be included. Thank you We have a series of constitutional arguments to break down including arguments about liberty. Equality natural law and precedent. So let's take each of those in turn in roe v. Wade justice blackmun routed a right to privacy in the fourteenth amendment's conception of personal liberty and restrictions on state action Leah tell us how justice blackmun rooted right to choose abortion in the liberty clause of the fourteenth amendment and whether you find his arguments persuasive so i think to answer that question. It's helpful to have a sense about what substantive due process is because that's really the area of law that justice blackmun west relying on some listeners. Might be familiar with the concept of procedural due process. The idea that the state can't deprive you of life liberty or property unless it uses the very best procedures. Let's think of a criminal. Trial noticed hearing council full blown. Procedures substantive due process is a little bit different in that context. The question is whether the state. Kim prohibits certain activity at all that is even if the state uses the best procedures or processes trials. There still some things that the state just can't regulate or prohibit and it's that area of law that justice blackmun was relying on in roe versus wade saying that the decision to carry a pregnancy to term is a protected. Liberty under the due process clause such that estate can't prohibit or require you to carry a pregnancy to term so in that context justice blackmun relied on an area of law and doctrine substantive due process. That by that point had become fairly well settled. That is by the time. The court decided roe versus wade. The court had already held that the state can't prohibit married couples unmarried individuals from purchasing or using contraception so the ability to bear or beget field. And control your reproductive. Health is already a protected. Liberty under the due process clause by the time of roe versus wade and even before those decisions. The court had held that certain family matters like the decision of how to raise your children or educate them was also protected. Liberty under the due process clause in decisions like meyer. Npr's i think in light of those decisions as well as a few others. And the only other one that i would throw out is roshan versus california. A super important due process clause case in which the court said it offended the principles of liberty protected in the due process clause for the state to forcibly extract the contents of someone's stomach in order to collect evidence and i think that principle of bodily autonomy together with the idea that whether to bear beget a child and family care all of that is protected. Liberty under the due process clause is part of what supports roe versus wade. Thanks so much for that. To recently leah has set out the doctrine of substantive due process and said that decisions in the twentieth century Protecting rights of marital privacy and educational autonomy provide a foundation for the right justice. Blackmun identified in. Row you've argued that neither. The text of the constitutional amendments explicitly addressed the question of abortion and that america and early english law consistently treated abortion with strong disfavor. Tell us whether or not you find justice. Blackmun starvation of a right to choose abortion in the substantive component. The due process clause persuasive. Well leah of course tried to characterize this is just a natural outcome of along progression of cases in that simply is not an accurate historical depiction when we talk about griswold versus connecticut. Which was the case in which the supreme court reversed its prior position and said that states could not regulate the use of contraception between married couples That was only in one thousand nine hundred sixty five remember that roe versus wade was in one thousand nine hundred seventy three so to call that a historic precedent in terms of long long in effect is simply not correct and it was in nineteen seventy two when the court rendered the eisenstaedt opinion which is where the court extended this right to use contraception to unmarried individuals using a completely different rationale. So there was not a long history in fact. And there's When you read about the court's consideration of this question the fact that they re heard oral arguments twice in the case that the the justices changed in their composition and in their opinions regarding the case as very justices withdrew or resigned. It's simply not that. This is a natural progression of the law. In fact it was a significant break in the law. The court tries to justify in part by a very boulder is if he will his history of abortion that frankly the courts never relied on sense. They used a single article written by an abortion advocate to say that the only reason that abortion was illegal in the common law and throughout the united states at the time was because the the legislatures were trying to protect women and that in fact in the early common law it wasn't even illegal until after quickening but when you actually go back and look at the early english cases and you look at the legal history of abortion what you find are references to the unborn child and it is true that in the early common law a woman had to be quick with child before criminal proceedings could be initiated. That's because from an evidentiary point. How do you even prove the woman's pregnant without ultrasound with some of the the medical advances we've made since the early common law and so if it's a capital crime you wanna make sure that in fact a crime occurred so we now have a much better comprehensive understanding of the history of abortion again. The court is not relied on that historical analysis since row and in planned parenthood versus casey. They significantly moved their position as to its justification. They changed the rationale. So i simply think row was wrong at the start and the fifty years almost fifty years intervening has improved the analysis. Thanks so much for that leah. Theresa says that in fact the basis of the liberty right in rhode did not have long roots and suggests that in the casey decision in nineteen. Ninety-two the court. It's rationale to emphasize more women's equality than personal privacy and drawing on arguments made by a justice ginsburg and others. The court said that restrictions on abortion impose limits on women's ability to choose their destinies that are not imposed on them. Tell us what you think of criticisms of the liberty argument and also whether you believe the equality. Argument is more persuasive. So i just think that the criticisms of the liberty argument in row are overbroad or necessarily depend on a conclusion about when life begins so on the overbroad -ness of the criticism. You know you can make the same argument about the text and history of the constitution not supporting a particular right. Not only about row. But also about the decisions theresa to griswald in connecticut. Nineteen sixty is nine hundred seventy s era decisions. And so if you agree that you know. The constitution can't prohibit states from doing anything that isn't explicitly mentioned in the constitution. Then that's not really unique to row. That's going to call into question this entire body of law that predates griswold and is instead but also includes them and it also includes no more modern cases lawrence versus texas or bergeford versus hodges. The decision saying states can't criminalize same sex sexual relationships and can't deny marriage licenses to same sex couples all of those decisions. If we're requiring some firm historical evidence that right has necessarily been protected for all time are going to get called into question and as to whether the arguments or the changes in the courts personnel cast out on the decision. You know there. I would just say that. Of course you know. Brown versus board of education and the decision that was holding segregation in public education. Unconstitutional was also famously. Argued and went through. You know multiple rounds. And so. I don't know that that's a particularly uncommon feature a supreme court decision making at least during that era. The quality argument for abortion rights was as you noted famously advanced by justice. Ruth bader ginsburg In parts to respond to the perceived shortcomings of the liberty argument. The equality argument rests on the idea that in order to participate equally in government society the economy and to realize their full potential women need to have the ability to determine when and whether they will carry a pregnancy to term You know it is just the case that the sad reality in the united states is that maternity leave and maternity care is not particularly great in part for that reason you know women who are deciding whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term are not just making a decision about whether to have a child but are making a decision about how they will care for the child for perpetuity And also whether to assume the social roles that we as a society have assigned to Primarily women and mothers And it's in part to give women control over their own personal autonomy. Wellbeing medical care Economic livelihood that justice ruth bader ginsburg said in order for them to participate in society. They need to have the ability to control weather and when they become Pregnant and you know one statistic that people often note in this particular debate. Is that the majority of women who have abortions are themselves mothers. So it's not like these are women who don't value you know. Children the sanctity of life. It's just whatever their circumstances are they do not find themselves able to have another child and bring them into the world. Thank you so much for that. Theresa leah has well-articulated the equality argument advanced by justice repeater ginsburg and noted in the courts. Casey versus planned parenthood decision in a piece for book called what roe v. Wade should have said you. Are you the equality. Argument cuts the other way. You quote elizabeth katie. Stanton a writing that when we consider women are treated as property. It's degrading to women. We should treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit. And you say by their rejection of abortion. These women Advocates demanded something more meaningful and more radical equality full woman not as chemically altered. Its men tell us more about why you think the equality argument cuts in the opposite direction. So the language of the plurality which did not include justice ginsburg. She had separate opinion. But on this issue generally in her scholarship before she came to the core. What is very clearly grounded in that way. But the language of The plurality opinion that is controlling opinion in case he says for two decades of economic and social developments people have organiz their intimate relationships and made choices that define their views of themselves in their place in society in reliance on the availability of abortion in the event that contraception should fail the ability of women to participate fully to the economic and social life of the nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives but the simple fact is that they provided no empirical evidence to make that trutv and when we go back and we look at the actual historical evidence and the evidence that has been developed since Roe v wade and planned parenthood versus casey. There is not even a strong correlation between women's advancement in educational opportunities and professional opportunities And what we would say. The culture generally and abortion at the very time that abortion is decreasing women are participating more and more in higher education. Now it's more likely that a woman's going to be a college graduate that a man and yet we've seen that happen during the decline of abortion so the supreme court made this empirical statement with with no evidence and certainly with none provided or cited to in the opinion itself. And when you go back and you really look at the history it there is a there is not a correspondence more or less causation. The other problem is that what we've done is we've accepted. I would even say a stunted male reproductive model for economic lives people are supposed to be constant workers. And you hear this from men and women that that time when biologically say from age. Eighteen to thirty when moore most likely to conceive easily. Imbera child is that time when you're supposed to be establishing yourself it's when you are supposed to be beginning your jobs in your careers and your work life and your economic life and there's no room for bearing children. How often do you hear women. Say i would love to have a child but i've gotta get established. I need a big partner at the firm. I need to get through med school. Or i need to. I need to be a front line supervisor. And so what we see is that this falls correlation that they ground the abortion. Right in has actually retarded the ability of women to say as leah. I said no. I am a full person and workplace. You need to accommodate that reality. We do need the opportunity to bear children to nurture them. And that's been lost by this idea that we should have a sterile worker force. That doesn't have to be concerned. We've certainly seen that with the pandemic that when family responsibilities interfere there are a lot of employers that refused to adapt and part of it is because of what they said in planned. Parenthood versus. casey pregnancy is considered voluntary elective. And certainly it. It is voluntary or should be but having said that it is an important part of our community and the future of our community and we need to value it and we need to accommodate it. We have a pregnancy discrimination act and just two years ago the new york times do the huge expose on how major law firms and major corporations are discriminating against women. When they're pregnant women are being denied. Promotions are being denied the opportunity to pursue their career while they pursue creation of their family. This hasn't helped women it's retarded. Our progress let us get at best a quarter of a loaf when we're entitled as gifted human beings to participate fully and that means to have a life beyond work. Thank you so much for that. We've talked about liberty and equality. Let us now turn to natural law in planned. Parenthood casey justice anthony kennedy said that at the heart of liberty is the right to determine one's section of meaning of the universe in the mystery of human life. Some call that argument derived from natural law underlying principles of moral philosophy rather than the text in history of the constitution and indeed the kansas supreme court in two thousand nineteen explicitly natural law to declare abortion to be among kenyans fundamental rights and invoked. John locks declaration that every man has a property in his own person As a political natural right as a basis for right to choose abortion leah. Tell us what natural law reasoning is. And why some have identified the argument casey about autonomy as a natural law and natural rights based argument so natural laws. The idea that you can come up with some principles that should govern kind of society and individuals relationship to the government based on something intrinsic to human nature that is just based on who people are how they operate. You can deduce some principles under which government society should be organized. And so some of the language in casey that you were alluding to seemed to call to some people's minds the idea that justice kennedy. Or or the controlling plurality Believe that there are certain principles intrinsic to human nature that we just can't depart from the idea that there is a destiny of an individual or at that falls to each individual to define for themselves or determine for themselves mystery of human life. So the idea that there is just this core of human autonomy that is just how people organized their lives seem to be an alternative conception about what the protected liberty of the due process clause. Was that the planned. Parenthood versus casey plurality protected. I did want to say one thing about the pandemic in particular which is to my mind. The pandemic has revealed that even when we all collectively find ourselves in extremely difficult circumstances you working from home. Maybe having to do childcare and school care on top of that still employers haven't really found a way to make it work for women men or anyone else you know what we have seen is just a massive exodus almost extinction event for women in the workplace so the idea that if we are all collectively banded together and no longer in a situation where we can control a reproductive lies that employers will somehow accommodate this and allow for women to carry pregnancies to term if and when they would like and that there would be an adequate economic safety net health. Care safety net for families. Is i think a little bit less plausible than thinking that women's ability to control the reproductive lives is important for their ability to participate equally in all facets of society theresa. You have argued that natural law arguments might protect the rights of the unborn and that unborn. Children may have constitutional rights of derived from god or nature rather than the constitution explicitly. And this argument as you know if accepted would put the constitutionality of laws. That legalized abortion into question. Tell us about why you believe that natural law may favor the right to the fetus rather than the rights of woman well in part because the mills in principle of liberty the you mentioned the kansas supreme court impart part relies on this idea that the most fundamental freedoms to control my own body is limited even by john stewart mills harm principle that and the saying is that you're right to swing your fist ins where my nose begins and so in this unlike the the equality argument Where the unborn is a part of that argument but my focus really is on women being accepted as whole women with a natural reproductive life into the culture and into the public square and into the the economic the marketplace. In this instance. What we're talking about is that there is a second being that is involved. It's no longer even arguable. Whether or not that. Which is why within the woman wants. A pregnancy begins is a human being. We have the on ball companion rounds versus a planned. Parenthood out of the eight circuit that stiffly said that planned parenthood provided no evidence to the contrary every abortion end the life of a separate unique human being as state law. That was at issue in that case requires to be told to a woman so then the question is does a woman's liberty to be free of the pregnancy which is what the court has always called it. It's a right to terminate the pregnancy. It's not a right to kill. It's a right to be free of an unwanted pregnancy. Does that trump the ride of the child who in the vast majority of cases. She has voluntarily participated in the activity that created. That child does that right. Get trump by the woman's interest in terminating the pregnancy and and i think that we would not accept that argument in any other context. We don't allow people to take the lives of others when we need their organs. We don't we don't even require a parent to compel Their child today nate their organs for sibling etc. And so this idea that because the woman again in the vast majority of cases even it's time versus wade had voluntarily participated in the activity that brought that child into being because she no longer wants to be pregnant that she can terminate the life of that child and not allow it to continue to develop is deeply problematic in. That's why for so many of us. The opinion is fundamentally unjust. It is something that the only other context where we require another human being to give up their life is in the military context and even there. We have an all volunteer army now and so the idea that the woman has to have this control. We've talked about liberty. I don't think it's meaningful there. We've talked about But in this instance if we look especially in states like new york and virginia where it's post viability at that point the woman could have labor induced prematurely. The child could be born. And there's in every state in the union. There is a safe haven law a law. That says you can leave the baby at the hospital with no legal repercussions and so this right to kill that. The right to abortion is has has been and is becoming clearer and clearer that. That's what the right his exists is is not something that you can build an ordered liberty on lia role in casey held that there's a fundamental right to abortion rooted in the due process clause that restrictions on abortion before fetal viability which takes place around twenty four weeks are presumptively unconstitutional and the case decisions said that any of those restrictions have to be evaluated according to the so-called undue burden test. Now that the courts about to reconsider all that. Tell us what a court that felt. That precedent had some weight. And didn't want to overturn roe explicitly might do without undue burden test could apply it in ways that allowed for pre viability abortions. Which is the central question in this case and would there be any limits on the kind of pre by ability abortions that court that maintain the undue burden test might might sustained so the doctrine of starry decisive. The idea that courts should respect prior decisions even when they think they're incorrectly decided is of course deeply associated and interconnected with the abortion rights and planned parenthood versus casey the nineteen ninety-two decision. We've been talking about the court declined. An invitation to overrule roe versus wade invoking. The doctrine of starry decisiveness just last term in june medical services versus russo. Once again the justice whose vote was pivotal to the outcome chief justice roberts invoked the doctrine of decisiveness to declined to overrule the court's previous decision home and south versus heller stat which had invalidated the admitting privileges requirement arm that was also at issue in june medical so there is a tradition of course invoking respect for precedent and story psychosis in abortion cases as grounds not to revisit prior rulings traditionally. Starry decisive has turned on a few factors whether subsequent legal developments have called the opinion into question whether the case is an aberration. Or you know kind of a sore thumb sticking out in the court stirs prudence whether subsequent facts have called the decision into question whether there are reliance interests on the decision. And you know those are have been some of the key factors more recently. Some justice says he focused on other factors or at least refrain them such as whether the decision is agreed asli wrong or demonstrably erroneous. That has how wrong decision as affects weather to overrule it. They've also focused on the quality of reasoning in the decision. Basically asking how good or how bad or very bad. You know the reasoning in that prior case was it's my view that respect for precedent would require adhering to the casey standard the idea that before viability states can't ban abortion and that restrictions that fall short of an outright ban should be subject to the undue burden test as we've been talking about you know the doctrine of substantive due process is not unique to row or casey is in fact present in many of the courts more recent decisions as well as decisions predating row also no subsequent facts have eroded the idea that you know the decision whether to bear a child is protected. Liberty or an important component in controlling one's own life and mississippi is an arguing that the ban on pregnancy. Sorry that the ban on abortion after fifteen weeks of pregnancy does prohibit abortions before ability. So there's no argument to that. Subsequent facts have somehow moved the period of ability earlier to a point where mississippi's ban doesn't run a foul of that so to my mind. All of the kind of traditional story decisive factors would council in favor of upholding Kc and row. That doesn't mean that. I think that's what the court is going to do. But i do think that you know a traditional or healthy regard for precedent will lead to that result. Theresa help us understand what the court might do if the justices decide not to overturn roe entirely to say there is some way to president but that under an undue burden standard. The interests of the theater should be balanced against those of the woman. Would that lead to the upholding of a ban on abortion at fifteen weeks and help us understand the constitutional arguments that the court might apply under this approach. Well factually in the united states. The vast majority of abortions are completed prior to twelve weeks and certainly prior to fifteen weeks so numerically. We're talking about a small number of abortions and so the impact at one level if the court simply upholds the mississippi band and in some way supports it. Perhaps with the fetal pain argument that mississippi has presented at the appellate level and that we anticipate Include in their arguments to the supreme court that if the court takes that position it's actually impact given the sort of health exception that the dove bolton case requires in a post viability setting really. Ill have very little impact on the actual practice of abortion in this country The vast majority of abortion providers themselves do not do abortion. Certainly. after twenty weeks. they don't and and many of them don't do them after twelve or fourteen weeks. So as far as actual impact on the practice there would be very little impact on that and it could be argued that a woman can't assume duty in a pregnancy that she did not willingly Create or participate in the creation of by virtue of delay. And that is at least there. Those who are making that argument that if you have. And this is the rule in most european countries right that you have this protected period of time in which a woman can choose to reject pregnancy. But that her delay for in this instance almost four months would indicate that she has acquiesced or consented to the continuation of the pregnancy. At least tell the child can be born alive and then again under the safe haven law simply be left at the hospital if she doesn't want undertake the the work of nurturing and parenting that shop so that would be one way to do it is simply to say we are so far out of step with the rest of the western world at least on this issue that it makes no sense and mississippi argues that the methods of abortion become less and less safe for women and we hear that from the abortion industry all the time that the longer we delay the more dangerous the abortion becomes we certainly hear that in the context of rushing minors through an abortion without their parental involvement And so that's conceded that the abortion becomes more and more dangerous to the woman it's also a pretty barbaric the methods after you hit a certain point and jeff. I would correct you on a couple of things in your description of casey. The court backs off the fundamental right analysis and in fact says that the abortion is a liberty interest which can be balanced against other interests and one could argue that the interest of the unborn child begins to mature in the same way that we have other cases. Where perhaps you don't have full constitutional person who think about corporations but you have some constitutional rights in some context and so as the child begins to mature within the womb and it becomes to it comes to acquire greater and greater capacities within the that those rights begin to accumulate including the right to be protected against the intentional causation of it staff. The other thing is as justice o'connor had noted in a number of previous opinions that if you tie it to viability the problem with that is that it's something that is decreasing and decreasing. Yes the court generally said that at twenty four weeks we can be confident that the vast majority of pregnancies are viable at the or. The child is viable at that point but now actually the medical literature indicates it's closer to twenty two weeks and we know that there have actually been in some instances children who have survived Premature delivery at twenty one weeks and so tying it to that sort of marker creates an instability finally to me and it's part of the analysis starry devices is has. The opinion proved unworkable. And i would argue that. Unlike even oprah fell where you don't see legislatures across the country trying to to change it and trying to legislate in such a way to narrow it you've got fairly broad acceptance of obergefell and above the the cases related to lawrence v taxes. You don't and still. I don't think ever will have that sort of acceptance of this. This is a question that has to be to our collective judgment as people and starry decisive even under the courts own doctrine does not apply with the same strength. An instance where it is a decision that has historically been a legislative decision. So in this instance the reversal of bro. Yes we'll lead some states to prohibit abortion largely in its territory but other states like new york and we had this before row. Hawaii had legalized abortion. new york. Had legalized abortion before row. Led the people make this decision. Thanks very much for that. We've talked about the main constitutional arguments for and against roe. V wade including liberty equality. Natural law and precedent. It's now time for closing arguments in this eliminating discussion. Leave the first one is to you. y and on what grounds do you believe the constitution protects a right to choose abortion before fetal viability. And why do you think that the court should uphold the corporate texans of roe v. Wade i think the most persuasive argument for protecting the rights to abortion is the one that justice. Ginsburg articulated the equality. The idea that it is essential to women's ability to participate equally in modern society. They be able to control when and whether they have a child Some of the amicus briefs filed in the most recent abortion litigation. I think powerfully spell out how in today's society you know we have successful lawyers. Doctors law students all of whom have been able to take on the lives that they lead on because they were able to decide under what circumstances they were going to have a family And it is that right that i think the court should protect although as i have. Alluded to I think the more likely scenario is That the court will be cutting away at the right in the way. That theresa was alluding to daily suggesting that states can prohibit abortions Before thanks for that theresa the last word to you. Please tell listeners why you think. The constitution does not protect a right to choose abortion before fetal viability. And why and on what grounds you'd think the court should overturn the core protections wayne. Well the simple fact is. There's no empirical evidence that abortion has directly facilitated women's ability to participate in society in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. We had our first female governor in this country. That was almost fifty years before row in thirty two. We had our first female senator in thirty three. We had our first female cabinet member. Which i would note was secretary of labor. We had our first super We had our first court of appeals. Judge we had our first woman nominee and sixty four to be president We had the first woman to own a seat in the stock exchange and the first woman to be director of the new york stock exchange all of that predates the simple fact is that women's acceptance and full participation society is dependent upon cultural norms allowing women the opportunity to pursue advanced educations and to use their gifts and talents. And the presence of rowe has not facilitated. It and i would argue at his impact retarded and retarded the accommodation of the unique aspects of our life more importantly it is a question of continuing turmoil and for those of us who believe the science an argument that we keep hearing from on lots of other topics who believe the science that when that sperm and egg come together it creates a unique separate human being and that at its most fundamental level. Government's job is to protect human beings from axa private. Violence rovers versus white can't stand. It is an injustice just as the injustice of slavery that we did not correct until eighteen. Sixty five with a bloody civil war and this is an injustice that our grandchildren will look back and they will find it. Unbelievable that we're allowing babies to be killed that could be born and could live healthy. Happy productive lives. Thank you so much leeann. And theresa stanton it for a vigorous deep and civil discussion of the constitutional arguments for and against upholding. Ravi wave belittling theresa. Stanton it thank you so much for joining. Thanks for having us a great conversation. Thank you today. Show engineered by. David stotts produced by jackie. Mcdermott research was provided. By mac. taylor anna salvatori and lana caloric the homework of the week. Please check out live at the national constitution center. It's companion podcast. A we the people. It's the live audio feed of all the wonderful account home programs that were running every week. They've been so rich recently. They're spreading so much light on topics from the constitution and american literature to the founders library. All of us learn so much every week from them. And i hope that you will too so please check it out. And of course please rate review and subscribe to we the people on apple podcasts and recommend the show friends colleagues. Are anyone anywhere. Who's hungry for a weekly dose of constitutional debate and always remember the national constitution. Center is a private nonprofit. We rely on the generosity. The passion the engagement the devotion to lifelong learning People from across the country like you who were inspired by a nonpartisan mission of constitutional education and debate. You can support the mission by becoming a member at constitution center dot org forward slash membership or give a donation of any amount to signal support for this meaningful mission of providing the best arguments on all sides of the constitutional debates at the center of american life can do data constitution center dot org forward slash donate on behalf of the national constitution. Center on jeffrey rosen.
Norbert Leo Butz Is on the Long Haul
"We have a favor to ask our partner is conducting a survey and would be grateful for your help and answering a few questions it'll take less than ten minutes of your time and your participation helps support report our advertisers. Please go to slate study dot com to complete the short survey now. This podcast may contain explicit language and feel free to use explicit language. When you review the gist on Itunes it helps other people find the show it's Friday October fourth two thousand nineteen nineteen from slate. It's the Gist I might ask Senator Marco Rubio when asked about Donald Trump to request that China investigate Joe Biden had some comments. It's now what I saw in that trump statement was an impeachable act Senator Rubio. He saw the comic stylings of Donald. Can I get a wall what trump I don't know. That's a real request him just needling the press knowing that you guys are going to get outraged by it. he's gotten. He's pretty good at getting everybody fired it up and he's been doing that for a while and the media responded right on right on right on task the senior. Senator Slash press critic doc didn't seem delighted by the president's antics but he was firmly assigning it to the entertainment section not the news. I think he did it to Gigi guys and I think he did it to provoke. You'd ask me and others and get outraged by it. Guy said I mean he he plays it like violin and every falls right interest not a real requests. Okay what this reminds me of trump's answer to the question. Well give me your changing story about the trump tower meeting and who wrote the talking points on the plane what about about the fact that your original explanation was ally and then when you said we don't have to tell the truth to the New York Times and what that reminded me of is the the other week when Corey Lewandowski appeared before the House Judiciary Committee and that was not true was it. I've no obligation beyond the media's because there's just as a sinuses us as anybody else dishonest media no obligation not to lie to the media. Here's the thing about lying lying to the media and not being honest with the media and gigging the media. The media is a plural of that's right. It's medium and medium is defined as a means of conveyance to an audience and in that audience are people the American people voters citizens sends including millions of citizens that you actually care about your voters saying I have no obligation to be honest with the media is the exact same thing a saying. I have no obligation to be honest with the people in poisoning people poisoning cartons of milk in the supermarket. What do we care about a stupid paper carton line cartons. I'm not creating a horrible stench. I am simply pooping and if that poop goes into my pence not say a toilet that is not my fault. I mean what are pants pants. Don't have olfactory glands. They can't smell. Why should I care about a pair of pants anyway. Stupid elitist pants. No I assume Senator Rubio believes what he's saying and that we should believe what he's saying and and not assume that he's lying out of I dunno despondents but how can we know because he was just saying it into a microphone. Whatever microphones they're just wires and metals else screw microphones on the show. Today I will feel about the question posed by two historians is the presidency of Donald Trump more dangerous risk than that of a past president who was actually impeached hint. It's not Bill Clinton but I well you ever hear of the baider-meinhof affect which is when you say I've never heard of the baider-meinhof of fact until I say baider-meinhof affect and then soon everywhere where you look and listen people be saying baider-meinhof affect all right. It's actually not the effect isn't about the fact is the effect is about the baider-meinhof terrorist band who either don't know about it then you hear about it and it seems to pop up everywhere let's update this for two thousand nineteen the PUPAE fact one day you've never heard of pupae pie then you hear about Pudi Pie and it turns out Cutie Pie is everywhere similar thing happened to me with Norbert the name Norbert and never think of the name Norbert maybe in that Eddie Murphy movie but then a very special thing happened and it caused me to begin seeing nor birt's everywhere I would read a profile elephant actress and she would say I don't know I'd WanNa do that but some guy in corporate named Norbert. Tell me not to Norbert and then I read all these stories about European politics politics that quote Norbert Oral ginn Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the German Parliament was disgusted the phone transcript bitterly documents documents how trump behind the scenes exploits his power over a state president who is dependent on American support and worked for his private interests said Norbert wrote skin but why why all these Norbert S- I'll tell you it's because my guest Norbert Leo Butz is a great Broadway actor who is out with a new album of original songs the two time emmy winner stopped by the show to show that he's a quintupled threat singing dancing acting playing writing songs longs and sex topple. If considered Norbertine Norbert Leo Butz up next Ken Burns its name. That's become synonymous with documentary filmmaking. He's a master of his craft. The the timeless storyteller and now he's featured on that made all the difference a new podcast from Bank of America join host Alicia Burke as she talks to whichever's about the moments that inspired them to make an impact their stories might just inspire you to what would you like the power to do. You can find wind that made all the difference anywhere you get your podcasts. Norbert. Leo Butz is the SMUCKER's muckrakers of Broadway actors. You know with a name like that. It pretty much has to God now. If you don't know who Norbert Leo Butz is and I'm only going say Norbert Leo uh-huh Bots and other forty five times someone apparently thinks he some sort of combination of say Albert Finney you and McGregor Steve Martin and Leo Dicaprio and only mentioned those I four because he's played on Broadway characters. All of them have played in the movies Frank Abergnail and catch me if you can and Steve Martin Martin's Freddie and dirty rotten scoundrels and in big fish Norbert played the same role that Fenian McGregor had to combine to play in each of them to play the role that Norbert Kaleo Butts played. He's now out with a new album. Multi talented Guy singer-songwriter plays guitar two time Tony Winner. The long hauls the name of the album. He's here with me hello. Hey thanks so much. I didn't play the legal Narda to capture. I played the Tom Hanks role. Oh yeah yeah yeah that makes more sense yeah yeah yeah that was only a few years ago on C. weren't Abigail you were. I was the FBI guy trying to catch the Tom. Hanks part of his name was Carl Hanratty MHM in that story so you are not constantly on Broadway but in a typical year what's the breakdown of where Oh you're performing and what you're performing That's that's tough to answer done a lot of Broadway and it's all been a big mistake. I I mean in that one hundred percent. I tripped into this career. I came to New York in Nineteen Ninety six. I moved from Montgomery Alabama. Where I had finished finished a master's degree at the how yeah I was at a place called Alabama Shakespeare Festival. which is a big one? It's a big regional theater and they used to offer an MFA and Ah after I graduated actually stay down there. I started teaching acting and theater at at Auburn University and even move to New York until I was twenty nine and then I got stupid lucky. I came to New York. I'M GONNA move before I'm thirty before I go into fulltime academia. At the time. I was working with the band two. I was like yeah. I'll be a college college. Professor and I'll have a rock band on the side and that was the main yeah I really loved rock and Blues and it all through my twenties I played a ton of clubs clubs and parties and all that kind of stuff. I came up here. My ex wife and I moved up in the fall of ninety. Six musical rent had just opened on Broadway. I was asked by a friend to come and play a couple of tunes at a fundraising party for his off Broadway Theatre Company. The publicist for rent was in the audience audience said Hey. There's this huge musicals just opened on Broadway. They really need guys to cover the to lead guys rock and roll score. Their voices were just turned into hamburger each week week so they were casting. What we call under studies you know relief pitchers if you will and I went to a big cattle call the next day and within in like seven weeks after moving to New York City was playing the lead role in rant well at first. I was hired to play Roger Houser every Sunday so scheduled day off the correct pretty decent understudy job right some understudies never on it was great understudied shop in fact it was one of the best asked money gigs of my career because I made my salary and then I joined the cast about four or five months into the run a vet and like I said that show is just really ripping apart these singers a lot of them were kinda untrained rock singers and pop singers and stuff like that and so yeah had one scheduled performance a week and then the rest of the week. I was literally just waited in the Green Room in case you know he would call call in right and then they go by eight daylight. Go by what like seven forty five no you gotta stay until the middle of the second half or something like that and then go home but the guy I was covering. He's actually a good friend of mine. His name is Adam Pascal he was having some real vocal problems so I was going on to three or four times a week so I would make my salary and you make an eighth of his salary. Every time you go on I did that for for like six months and then they asked me if I would be a second cover off for the other guy for mark and I went on a couple of times in the producer really liked me in that role so then I would do mark a lot of times in the afternoon and Roger at night and that was a trip because I would be singing harmonies opposite myself l. from just a few hours earlier. I mean there's there's repertoire theater right and the theatre and repertory sometimes like I saw true West where the role the brother roles swished but I think they did it performance performance or three in a row you're right and it would mess with their heads a little you doing it same day. I know and I also covered covered three other guys in the unsolvable really and I tell you what man it was crazy but I loved it. They called me the launch of rent because that was constantly changing you know hair and facial hair and tattoos news and classes and I loved that because there that in cash in Phantom I know the obvious move for longevity. Yes right right right now. I've always had more of sort of a rock or blues or soul edge to my voice. I've never sort of fit super comfortably intellect classical musicals. I've tried and I've done a couple of them but after after work really hard to sound like super legit and Bertoni eleven s people might not realize the economics of Broadway because a ticket. It costs one hundred twenty dollars for the cheap ones but the reactor do not get paid well. My friend was on Broadway and was telling me that if you do a dance chance on a table because it's more challenging or dangerous you get an extra eighteen dollars a show. It's the truth need that eighteen bucks absolutely mad you know that brings up a whole huge subject but yeah man the economics of Broadway. Are there just impossible. I mean you have if you're an investor investor wanting to get money behind Broadway. Show you really do have better odds playing Keno in in Atlantic City then then you do in a Broadway musical and you're asking me before. Do I do a show each year. I would if I could but the fact of the matter is is I've done. I don't know like twelve Broadway shows. I've won onto Tony Awards and I almost went broke man. I had I have three kids. I can't afford a lot of times to do what I'm most trained to do because it's not just you gotta understand the pre-production to get a show to get a Hamilton or to get you know write a catch. Keke a Broadway show up. It's such a long process right. There's such a long gestation process and you got to sign up for the whole thing which means a five week rehearsal at which you paid minimum equity salary for those rehearsal now even to time hundred percent. It's called favored nations. Everybody makes the same thing in rehearsal right. Then you do an out of town run right you gotta go take it to a city Farro even farther both of them like to go far away so after show is a big stink bomb retool those as if we can hide in this day and age from when your show is really terrible but you go out of town and again again you work for favored nations you can put in a year a year and a half and then they may take a six month hiatus right before there's a theater available you can work a year a year and a half two years years before you even get to your first preview performance on Broadway which is when your quote unquote star salary would kick in so you got a year and a half of sweat in the game name now that show opens and this has happened to me seven out of the twelve shows. I've done eight. I've been too successful. Broadway shows all the rest. The my lost money on everybody lost money on the whole thing lost money you open. You've worked a year and a half two years. Maybe more review comes out. It's a Pan Yeah and and that shows closed in two weeks to three weeks so you've made your great salary. Yeah you've made your I lost a house because Ben Bradlee one time was it. Enron was not kill he killed. He's killed many of mine I can't say that he killed it. For whatever reason you know look it's an open open marketplace super competitive and which were the two dirty rotten scoundrels did that the only two shows. I've ever done that have made real real money. where the shows. I did the least I was in the original cast of wicked sure could shrink itching yeah continuing and I guess dirty scoundrels and that only made money after after the fact so that initial investment didn't make it's money back on Broadway but by the time it toured. That's when you can really make the bank because you're in front of four thousand seat theaters supposed supposed to nine hundred away from your family. If you're not that young kid yeah so I was listening to the new album the long haul and there are a couple songs there a couple of lyrics which I couldn't quite make out and the only reason even dwelled on that is it's extremely common for country or rock to put over over a lyric based more on the emotion of it and then you're like what are they saying. First Line of. I met a GIN soaked Barham Memphis. I had no idea what mic was saying for Twenty Years Yeah Yeah. I think it was. I think it's the if wishes were horses song and is there. What's the line about beggars. Were wishes were horses than beggars would ride yeah. I didn't exactly exactly no beggars would ride Broadway would ride the song we you know I i. I learned a ton making this record. I set myself the challenge. I almost abandoned the project a bunch of times but I've been writing writing in the closet as it were for a long time. I am and and urged by friend producer of mine. He's like man. Let's get these outlets. Get these out and we'd work on and and it'd be like I just I can't these are I had become comfortable singing behind a character. You know what I mean and he's like man you gotta get your stuff out there but one of the hardest things for me to to to make the transition to a pie high frequent high tech vocal. Mike in a booth as as opposed to singing with lava lear Mike in your wig in front of a rod low budget low at out big big frigate voice. I have a really big voice dude and so finding minding the restraint finding and maybe I tipped it sometime soon much finding the restraint leading the Mike do the work was a real challenge at the same challenge I had when I had been doing stage work for twenty years and in the past ten years I've been doing a lot more television in you got too far with the is knowing wing where you're at knowing what your meat understanding your medium That's a that's a steep learning curve I'm so grateful that I feel like I I I've had like I said I've had the experience as it just means more workers available for me but it's a tough tough learning curve specially for actors in the theatre specially for musical theater actors just because you're right man. It's a full body. It's a full body experience. It doesn't surprise me that you wrote these songs while working on a TV project because seems like it might be hard to eight days a week be spe- in one musical form you know you're singing musical and then to just go back and right in a different entirely different form it would mess with the process. I would imagine one hundred percent yeah when I'm doing a run of play especially I cannot. I cannot work work on other music. you're so right about that. One year is a constantly. I see a lot of analogies between sports and performance and the performance you yeah. I mean you know even if you are. You're pinch hitting. If if you might be be a relief pitcher that that that is way down in the pitching that night you can you can make the best plan you can but you're not gonna be able to sit over. There and I don't know do Sedukh. Oh concentrate on a on a novel. Do you know what I mean. You've got to stay in tune with the rhythm of that game and that's very true of live theater you. I have to so even if I'm off stage for a long time to show I gotTa have one one ear on the can at all times. It's like you have to stay in character or anything like that but it's staying in the building one time I was doing my fair lady at Lincoln Center and had a really big break between scenes like an hour and forty five minute break and play you play the Dad Right. I played the church on time. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah and they had this big break and so I would go down to the basement of Lincoln Center where they have this incredible piano and I'd sit down and I'd play and lose myself. Alf and I did that one time. When I heard over the loudspeaker norbert books stage left Norbert Hush up stairs your heart's going on like never again never get everything that age on time well. That's the that's the part of me man. I'm distracted but when I'm in somethin' I go deep and Yeah you're right about that. It's really really hard. You brought Qatar so I thought we would ask you. Would you like to play for us. I'll play a snippet of something yes I will and this will be what this tune that I wrote for my wife. It's called South Mountain Waltz. It's unabashedly romantic. I married a wary wonderful woman. In a I thought I should do one album one song on the album for her so this is the one his sons Turmes's mountains of Blah. You feel you breathe your audie skin. I'm wrestler us all it is and across. I four from door. We fly through learn Aidan do glen. It's three times in we do again. has sunsets skies starts to Indonesia the ground ED my fee breeze US yeah scan the the floor seeing now we fly to he didn't do three recorder. We do again stuff very nice do it for the applause Norbert. Leo Butz is out with a new album called the long haul twelve songs that he wrote that he plays on Broadway way mainstay. I guess the latest film or TV project Fosse Verdon. It's still out there and his new film loose with Octavia Spencer. The answer is also out in theaters now norbert great to meet you you too man. Thanks for having me. Thanks a lot doc and now the trump is self impeaching. I think the phrase gives them too much credit like this guy could ever rangel a majority vote in the house in two thirds vote in the Senate anyway. He is incriminating himself every day but when an idiot criminal admits to the crimes. We don't say he self prosecuting. I mean that takes training and knowing knowing things and bring it all up because yesterday was another big day of terrible revelations for what looked like the pre impeachment moments of the trump presidency but you know what made me livid now. It wasn't wasn't the China thing it was Andrew Johnson an op Ed in the Washington Post arguing headline. Why Donald Trump is much. It's more dangerous than Andrew Johnson sub head while both presidents are demagogues who faced impeachment. Today's political reality means that trump can do more for damage now the authors Sidney M Milkis and Daniel J tricky nor to historians do have a decent case to make not decent enough but but it's basically this the powers of the president then compared to the powers of the presidency now they're really incompatible to cite one example which they didn't do in their piece but that I happen to know and I find it shocking the Justice Department the head of which is apparently gallivanting about the globe trying to scare up op research over the two thousand sixteen eighteen race anyway the hundred thousand Plus Department of Justice Gas how many members had had in Andrew Johnson's time zero didn't exist exist until created under US grant also and this is part of the MILKIS traynor argument partisan ships huge partisanship ship means any politician with party backing will be more powerful today because the Andrew Johnson was a Democrat and Republican who had no backing among Republicans begins in other words Johnson had no base trump has a base basis everything these days therefore trump more dangerous here. Now is why they're wrong wrong. Andrew Johnson inhabited the presidency at a crucial inflection point. US history he was responsible and in some cases solely responsible for inflicting it in the wrong direction he led the confederate states back in the union with almost no consequence he vetoed civil rights legislation the fourteenth the amendment was relatively toothless because of him he was the author of by designer neglect the shameful reconstruction period that have done differently. I'm not saying perfectly but if done differently as general grant wanted would've had an immeasurable positive effect on America the other point is and this goes right at those two historians points about partisanship the replacement for Donald Trump will be mike pence who will will carry out a partisan Republican policy agenda in fact he'd probably better at it than the distracted and dissolute put trump but the replacement for Johnson would have been Benjamin Wade. Benjamin Wade was the speaker pro tem of the Senate. The rules of succession accession were different than Johnson didn't have a VP having ascended after the assassination of Lincoln Wade was next in line wade was what they call a radical Republican. That's what they called it at the time but here's what was radical about him. In eighteen sixty eight he was radically against the fugitive slave act he he was radically for women's suffrage and he literally believed in the equality of African Americans. So what I'm saying is this radical meant that he was on the right side of history and would have been as great an improvement over the sitting president as Christopher Nolan was over Joel Schumacher as Batman director actor and I'm GonNa say the stakes of eighteen sixty eight America were even higher than Batman shoutout to all UCONN nerds. I would go as far as to say that if I could pick one president history to be impeached too wasn't I would pick Andrew Johnson who almost got impeached by one vote. It might be hard to believe you know. Things worked out pretty good for for America. At least that's what they told me as a kid but I think they would have been so much better not perfect but just so much better than the horror they were under Johnson. I think they would have been better petr under wade he would have had more of a positive effect than the difference between trump and pence may be impossible to know. I bow to recency recency bias. I also bowed to Donald Trump is he has a lot of it and by the way you could argue as history ripples through time that if the terms was of reconstruction weren't so disastrous maybe a force like donald trump wouldn't have existed I also WANNA quote something from Brenda wine houses great book. Look the impeaches about this time it pretty good argument that Johnson actually was pretty powerful. This is a quote from the abolitionist. Wendell Phillips who was publisher of the national anti-slavery newsletter with a cabinet composed of all his adherence all enemies to the nation and its loyal inhabitants with a treasury full of money a large secret service fund at his disposal with military officers in command at the South sympathizing empathizing with his views a general of the army so hedged round with military etiquette with a large southern population seething with rebellion hordes of secret secret societies. They're only waiting for the signal to spring two arms. Why can't the president do in all this time indeed and you might not be able to tell but I'm really really into the impeachment an ultimate acquittal of the coward Andrew Johnson in fact. I would like to end by reading one. One of my favorite quotes all right. Here's the context this is about Edmund Ross. He's the Kansas senator who voted to acquit the final vote in that one margin vote wrote that kept the angry intemperate Tennessean in the White House then what you need to know is that Ross took office after the sitting Kansas Senator James Lane shot himself committed suicide for reasons still unknown after Ross's fatal vote misinterpreted as a profile wiling courage by John F. Kennedy but really a decision made out of either cowardice or craven this after the Ross vote kept Johnson and office a telegram came to Ross it was written by a member of the Kansas Supreme Court. It was not a compliment the telegram read in full probably the rope with which Judas hanged himself lost but the pistol with which James Lane shot himself is at your service and that is eighteen sixty eight for burn sun room and that's it for today show that just was produced by Daniel schrader under who plays as thaddeus Stevens work on that hallowed out Glare Kid Christina Deg- Osa produce the gist all by herself today. She just requested look Mike. Can you dwell in eighteen sixty eight and this time we can maybe move onto the Twentieth Century Next Time Share Yeah Twentieth Century will be easy to words McKinley Leon troll Gosh Donnybrook the jest perhaps the swamp that visited a pestilence upon William Henry Harrison and is cleared but the poop within the Lewandowski trousers obtains Peru Peru and thanks for listening.
On The Trail: It's An Election Year, Charlie Brown
"This is one A.. I'm Todd Willie can Washington the Democratic caucuses in Iowa or less than a month away and this is the first true test. For the remaining Democratic presidential candidates when primary Democratic acquatic voters will cast their picks for who they want on the party ticket to do the one thing that matters to Democrats take on Donald Trump. Now a lot can happen in in a month while a few leaders have emerged those who were trailing behind the leading four they have not given up. How about Michael Bloomberg his campaign announced yesterday that it has purchased a a sixty second ad during the Super Bowl for the modest cost around ten million dollars will later in the hour? We're GONNA step away from national politics and learn about what state legislators all across the country are working on trying to get big things done this year on both sides of the aisle. I joining us for the first in a series of monthly updates between green now and election. Day Re Wilson is here. He's national correspondent for the hill. Read great to have you. Todd how are you. I'm great it's great to have you here. We're going to be checking in with you. Periodically as twenty twenty. Twenty grinds on a lot of people did not realize that when the new year's ball drop that was actually the election year. They thought well. It'd may never stopped but look look we've got a international news now. rising up behind this election Rising tensions with Iran reaching a new level this week strikes counterstrikes honor strikes rhetoric counter rhetoric statements from the president There has not been a lot of national security in the Democratic primary so far now it is becoming in an issue. Candidates are starting to respond via twitter. Statements they're going to have to respond to a lot more. What does it mean now for national security to be entering this race for the very first time in in in a substantive way? Yeah one thing it. Does it puts a spotlight on former vice president. Joe Biden who is the only person in the field who's got a long track record of international relations uh-huh experience he was the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Of course he was the vice president of the United States for eight years and he was you know sitting in the room when President Obama ordered are to strike on on Osama bin Laden. So he's got that foreign policy experience. That's a positive for him. The downside for him though is that this brings up the big difference in the two thousand eight democratic campaign. Two thousand eight there was one candidate. one front running candidate who had opposed the war. And that was Barack Obama this time everybody opposed the war except for Joe Biden on the other foot the balance of power as it were is with the side that had opposed the war. That's national security. Let's step back for just a moment. A give us your picture. The overall state of the race. We've talked about two thousand eight now. Let me make a parallel to two thousand four back in two thousand four. There were two leaders in the month or or two before. The Iowa Caucuses Dick Gephardt the Democratic leader in the House of Representatives and Howard. Dean the former Governor Vermont. Who by the way built his campaign around opposition to the war in Iraq as well Gabardine really spent the last two months of the race targeting each other and I think we've seen that in the last month or so with Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buddha Jr the two leaders leaders in the race in Iowa targeting each other more than those sort of top of the ticket Joe Biden Bernie Sanders attacks which you might otherwise expect? The consequence has been that it seems that Warren and Buddha judge have lost some momentum in recent weeks whereas Biden Sanders gaining momentum. And that's exactly what happened back in two. It doesn't four except instead of Lieberman gaining momentum. It was this this other guy who nobody'd ever heard of a senator from North Carolina named John Edwards in ended. The final Iowa caucuses that ear were John Kerry Howard Dean in third and then Dick Gephardt in a distant fourth that basically ended Dean and Gephardt's campaign. Warren and Buddha judge are very conscious of what happened back. Then they don't want to be the the same kind of nuking each other At the cost of their own campaign Lieberman gaining momentum. You said and that puts them that. Put a memory in my head. That was the refrain of Joe Momentum. I never wanted to think of Joe Momentum again and I just thought of it again. Thanks to you Joe. Joe Lieberman finished fifth in the New Hampshire New Hampshire primary said he was in a statistical assistant tie for third and it made me think no. There's no such thing as statistics in either either got third or you got fifth. That's the math will. Joe Biden is trying to use US some real math. Here's Joe Biden in his closing remarks at the last democratic debate in December. Look we all have big plans and the question is who can deliver Ronald plans. We have to ask ourselves three questions straight up and honestly who has the best chance most likely chance to defeating Donald Trump. Who is the one who is most likely to do that? I don't Joe Biden gets under the skin of a lot of progressives in his party but that's his main pitch. I'm the one who can win. If you care about defeating Reading Donald Trump on your on your guy is there a clear indication yet in polls or in fundraising or both or any other metric. That Biden's pitch where he stands and he has the best chance of defeating. Donald Trump. Four Democrats can he show it. It is clear in polling right now that the Democratic primary voters believe that Joe Biden is best positioned and to beat Donald Trump in November. It is clear in fundraising senses. That Joe Biden is not the leading Democrat candidate I mean he had a pretty good fundraising quarter in the last last quarter but Bernie Sanders outraged by more than ten million dollars. The history though suggests that Joe Biden is in fact the best possible candidate to carry sorry the Democratic Torch. And that's because he has run before when Democrats have nominated somebody who has run before that person has lost every subsequent general. Ledger actually go back a hundred years. The Democratic Party has nominated five candidates who have run and lost before Hillary Clinton Al Gore George McGovern Hubert Humphrey and John W Davis this and all five of those candidates have lost the subsequent general election to Republican candidate And I think a big fundamental part of why Hilary Clinton lost in two thousand sixteen doc is because she represented the insider the experienced Status Quo if you will and Americans by-in-large vote for the outsider candidate whether it's Barack Obama Obama over John McCain or George W Bush governor of Texas over a sitting Vice President Al Gore going back through history basically the only candidate in modern history who has one as the insider candidate was George H W Bush in one thousand nine hundred eight. It is by far the exception rather than the rule. So that's a little bit. Why Joe Biden might be a touch your candidate at eight in the general election? Then he is. He's showing himself to be. There is also the question of who can bring out the broad democratic coalition. Joe Biden is the most centrist of the field at least among the front runners. I can appeal to the broad middle but there is a specific concern among Democrats. The Democratic Base is progressive This is a primary and a lot of people say as as you said. Biden represents the old conciliatory politics. That are dead in the era of trump. A bit here he is saying no. I'm progressive to He said in that clip. Look I'm I've got the progressive policies to it makes me wonder if the branding of Joe Biden is Mr Centrist is a little bit misleading. Has the Democratic Party which has poll hole to the left. Also pull Joe Biden to the left is the centers Joe Biden. You get now even to the left of the Obama Administration. Oh I I think without a question. Western they'd be. Joe Biden talked about going further than the affordable care act. He wants to build on the affordable care act and that in and of itself as a to the left of the Obama Administration was now the broader question on who can turn out the democratic base. You get two different answers when you look at polling and when you actually talk to voters in the field old look at polling and it suggests that somebody like Joe Biden is best equipped to blow out the broad base of democratic support. Because he's getting a lot of support. Among African American voters among Hispanic Panic voters among younger voters and older voters. Somebody like peanut butter. Judge is having trouble with African American voters that being said you talk to them talk to actual voters and they they say they're gonNA turn out and show up and vote against president trump. No matter what there's a lot more to talk about in this twenty twenty race read is going to stick around but I also want to tell you that last year. The Kansas Supreme in court ruled that the state's constitution guarantees a woman's right to abortion in this year conservatives. Want to overturn that decision. This is just one state where state legislators are are fixing to make big changes. We're GONNA talk about Kansas. We're going to talk to one legislator who supports that reversal. Read Wilson from the hills. GonNa stick with us. I'm todd you're listening to one A.. Hey from WMU and NPR this message comes from NPR sponsor. Better help a truly affordable online. Line Counseling Service. Fill out a questionnaire online and get matched with a licensed counselor best suited to your mental health needs whether it's depression anxiety or trauma better help will help you. Overcome what stands in the way of your happiness learn more at better help DOT COM and get ten percents off your first month with Promo Code. Oh two one a better help get help anytime anywhere. If you start your weekdays with up I now can start your weekends with us too. I'm Scott Retirement and I'm Lulu Garcia. Navarro stay caught up with. NPR news six days a week a first NPR's morning news. podcast weekdays at six eastern. And now wow with weekend hours two Saturdays at eight eastern. Welcome back to one A.. I'm todd's Willockx. Were talking all things politics. Twenty twenty and the Democrats with read Wilson a national correspondent at the hill read. Let's talk about another candidate. Who's doing better than he was doing? Quite well Pete. Booth former mayor South Bend Indiana in the latest democratic debate. He responded to a question about whether the age of a president because he's pretty young actually matters. I actually think it's good that the prime administered New Zealand's gotten a lot of attention democratic debates. She's masterful she is younger than I would be when I took office. This is the kind of trying to America might deleted instead of the following. But only if it's actually backed by the right vision and we can have great presidents at any age. How strong is Pete? Buddha judge now and what is his fundamental mental patch. I think he is quite strong. I think he's at if not the leader. Then statistically tied for the lead in in Iowa in the early caucuses and when do Democrats win who are the Democratic candidates who have won the presidency in recent years. Jimmy Carter Bill. Clinton Barack Obama all three younger outsider. people who are promising a wholesale change to Washington so it seems just based on recent history that when Democrats offer that new generational change and a change in Washington they can win and says about Joe Biden on twitter. He's safe name to say until you start learning about other candidates. He's failing in Iowa and New Hampshire now. Joe Biden may slid some support in Iowa and New Hampshire. But that makes you wanNA look at Broader Race Iowa New Hampshire Nevada than South Carolina. Where Joe Biden probably probably will do pretty well strong support among African Americans a big part of the democratic base? And I don't want to look ahead to far but after that is Super Tuesday the big explosion ocean of delegates and it seems like Joe Biden has this strategy I may not win Iowa. Maybe I won't win New Hampshire but comes Super Tuesday on a swamp. Everybody because a lot of delegates are going to come into my full well. Let's let's take the opposite case. Though in the last five democratic nominations only one candidate has ever won that. I'm I shouldn't even say the last five in modern history. Since since Iowa New Hampshire became a thing back in the nineteen seventies only one Democrat. Who has not won Iowa? Ahah or New Hampshire has ever won the Democratic nomination. And that was Bill Clinton in nineteen. ninety-two everybody basically skipped Iowa that year. Because Tom Harkin Was the was running the the home state senator. So what happens. If Biden loses in Iowa loses in New Hampshire and by the way then comes Nevada where Bernie Sanders is doing pretty well among largely Hispanic Anik and union activists who dominate. The Democratic caucuses. Out there what. If Biden goes over three back in two thousand eight Hillary Clinton was looked like South Carolina was going GonNa be her firewall. Then Barack Obama ended up winning Iowa and ended up winning South Carolina too and and taking a number of those African American voters who had initially thought man. I don't know if he can win Once he demonstrated that that that was sort of the momentum that we talked about earlier so where does Biden's momentum come from you talk about Super Tuesday. There's another thing sitting bringing on Super Tuesday that we've never seen before in a Democratic primary. And that is Michael Bloomberg Michael Bloomberg has spent a hundred and forty seven million dollars on television advertising just through today. He doesn't even have next week's by yet. Forget about the superbowl. Forget it the Subaru. I mean the one hundred forty seven million dollars. That's more than than every every Democratic candidate has spent on TV combined probably by a factor of two so that to me is a substantial roadblock. The Joe Biden is not going to be able to overcome them with a similar amount of spending. He's relying on name identification that he cannot back up with paid media. Let's talk about somebody who dropped out. Within the last week Hooghly on Castro Zero Texas. He ended his bid for the presidency. Here he is in an interview after that announcement sounding rather hopeful as they do. This is the end of one chapter but it No matter what comes next I'm always gonNA find a way to participate in making this country a better place and part of that means doing what I cantu support. The Democratic nominee to defeat Donald trump in November of two thousand twenty Julio Castro then turned around and endorsed Elizabeth Warren. How big of a get for her was that and of course he's always willing to help to defeat? Donald trump applications are open for Hooley on to be vice president. That was the thought that crossed my mind especially hit a rally in New York last night when there were a bunch of signs printed in Elizabeth Warren's signature. What do they call it Liberty Green? It looks more like a seafoam color. that said You know who Leon Warrant Hulan and things like that so yeah that might be the first auditioned for a for a vice presidential ticket that we've really overtly seen important for her. She's been lagging. It's look at any endorsement is important. I think that in this day when we mistrust the elites more than we ever have before endorsements matter less than they have in in the past Especially when these candidates are on television nonstop. What your local state representative or state senator or even a former? US Cabinet secretaries say probably matters less than it has in the past but it certainly opens up the opportunity for her to to attract money and support from his donors from his supporters Although I will say a number of Castro supporters from Texas Just recently decided they would endorse Joe Biden so there that shows that endorsements don't always bring Lockstep support from everyone was backing cast. We talked about Pete Booed Aeges Youth. I WanNa talk about Joe Biden's age. This comes up in campaign after campaign some people. We'll have pointed out that Joe Biden is older than he used to be. We all are but that. He's noticeably older than he used to be a lot of Americans don't see it now because they're not following the race closely if he's the nominee in either gonna see Joe Biden every single day and it might not be the Joe Biden that they remember and the Joe Biden that they remember is somebody who was vice president for for eight years who. I'm not sure how much Americans form an opinion of the vice presidents independently of the actual president. I know that Joe Biden is doing everything he can to show his vim and vigor. If you will I was at the the Iowa. Democratic Dinner Liberty and justice dinner a few months ago where all the candidates spoke and Joe Biden alone among the other candidates jogged out on stage so that seemed to be a little subtle reminder that hey he's still pretty fit for for seventy eight. I WANNA give Brandon in a shout out on twitter. Who says don't leave Yang out of your discussion? Let's not leave. Andrew Yang out of our discussion fundraising is strong. What about his candidacy his fundraising fundraising is incredible? For a guy who had never run for office before who had who has I don't WanNA call them ideas out of the mainstream but ideas that are not usually talked about in in modern politics. He's talking more about the future of the American economy than pretty much any candidate. I've ever heard Speak on the trail and he very clearly has a following but the the online world is not the world of the Democratic primary process. And I haven't seen him rising in the polls In any way that puts him anywhere near the top tier. Now let's leave the campaign in trail itself just for a little while. A lot of states are starting a with this year session just started in January. Some state houses have flipped flipped. What are some of the things that you've been watching for the state level as some parties have Party hegemony in some states but a lot of parties are trying to make big moves at the state level. Yes here's a crazy fact for you of the fifty states forty nine state. Legislators are contrary con entirely controlled by one party or the other Only one party only one on state. Minnesota has a democratic. I think it's a democratic house and a Republican Senate Every other state completely controlled by one side and the states are really where public policy. Let's he starts to happen. What I think we're GONNA see now is a couple of different buckets if you will the first one? I'm calling the sports bucket and the sports bucket is first of all sports betting. The Supreme Court has now allowed L. Every state to adopt sports betting. And we've seen a number of states adopted already in hopes of climbing some of that revenue into their into their Their annual budgets. Bits and the second is leading. NCW athletes receive pay for what happened for forbid the use of their images in video games or advertising or things like that that bill passed asked in California last year. It's already been introduced in at least three states. Minnesota New York and Florida. I expect it to be introduced in twenty or thirty more states by the end of this year it is hugely popular hugely. Bipartisan something. That's just GonNa get done especially now that the NC double A. is sort of stepped out of the way. The second thing that states are doing is they're trying to figure you're out how to deal with these big tech companies in a way that fits with their regulatory structures. What we find in state politics is that what happens in California today is probably going to happen in fifteen states tomorrow tomorrow? So what happened last year. In California's they passed a bill called. Ab Five that would allow Those Uber Lift Jordache workers to be classified as actual workers for the company. You can can imagine the company's really hate it. They promised to spend ninety million dollars on a ballot. Measure to overturn that Bill. But we're going to see similar measures. Come up in states like New York New Jersey Connecticut this year. Well well. Let's go to Kansas right now because Kansas has big doings in one of the most divisive policy areas in this country. And that's abortion Republican. Brenda Brenda Landwehr of the Kansas. House of Representatives representative. Are you there. I am thank you for having me great to have you now last year. Kansas the Supreme Court in Kansas struck down on a ban on certain types of abortions. That was passed by your legislature. In two thousand fifteen. The court ruled that the Kansas Constitution does indeed protect a woman's right to an abortion. Listen what's your opinion on that ruling and what are you doing within the Kansas legislature to effect well for the Kansas Supreme Court For the first time in our hundred and fifty year history separated the Kansas Constitution from the US Constitution in their decision by doing this. It makes Kansas more radical and extreme than even Roe v Wade so if Roe v Wade was ever overturned on the federal level Kansas will still have unlimited abortion. No parental notification. So your child who need your permission to sign up for school or mental health services it CETERA can get an abortion without parental consent. If you have now gone back to doing dismemberment abortions it's in Kansas. which had been banned if you move to overturn The constitutional amendment that you have That a woman has a right to an abortion. What does that mean mean? Legally that will then give the legislature the right to regulate abortion more. Strictly it puts the discussion and the issue back in the hands of the legislature lecture. which is where it was prior to the Kid Supreme Court decision yes read? Is Kansas alone in moving to restrict abortion and the state level. Not In any the sense. We are seeing a huge abortion fights across the country in some cases a lot of these states Republican led states are passing the most restrictive bands they've ever passed and those bands are immediately being taken to court By pro abortion rights activists. And that's part of the plan I mean they want These he's the laws to be challenged in court so that eventually they can make their way to the Supreme Court and this Supreme Court that now has to trump appointed justices on. It has an opportunity to revisit visit Roe v Wade and we're going to see the first hint of that in March when the Supreme Court takes up a Louisiana case That has to do with Dr Admitting Privileges We'll get the first test of of where those two new justices Brad Kavanagh and Neil gorsuch are on questions that were settled by a previous court. Court had ruled on a similar law out of Texas. This is struck down a similar law at a Texas a few years ago now at nearly identical not quite identical law from Louisiana is in front of two. There are challenges to laws in states like Kentucky in South Carolina and Ohio and a few others that I'm blanking on at the moment but there are there are a number of cases in the pipeline. Georgia's another one. That's that's table. That basically guarantees that we're GONNA see some split circuits and eventually a Supreme Court argument representative land where we stick with us. We're GONNA take a quick break but I want to ask you about medicate. Indicate in your stay so hold the line if you would please thank you. Great to have you We're GonNa talk more with read Wilson of the hill after a break and we go to Virginia and Kansas after this support for this podcast and a following message. Come from Uber. Uber is committed to safety and to continuously raising the bar to help make safer journeys for everyone for starters. All drivers are background checked before their first ride and screened on an ongoing basis and now uber has introduced produced a brand new safety feature called ride check which can detect a trip goes unusually off course and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety visit Uber Dot com slash safety. Listen to planet money for all kinds of weird and interesting stories. That just happened to teach teach you a bit about money and the economy and how the world works planet money from. NPR subscribe. Now welcome back to one A.. It's todd's Willett back. Our conversation about politics are debrief with read Wilson National correspondent at the hill and representative Brenda land where of Kansas. Kansas is here Representative I told you I wanted to talk about Medicaid very interesting things going on in your state of Kansas. The Republican Senate Majority Party leader in Kansas. Jim Denning is working with Democrats to pass a Medicaid expansion plan to cover an additional one hundred and fifty thousand or so low income cans. Do you you support the move. Well I don't. And it's unfortunate that senator dinning has chosen to go out on his own rather than Working in with his caucus members which is where he had started a few months ago. There's a there's a large concern on this Medicaid piece that You know the the cost to our state. The fact that we're putting on able bodied individuals onto welfare removing people from employer and Obamacare. Oh care plans putting them on welfare. They'll have less access to providers so it's Kind of a major deal and you're the governor has been quoted as saying that this will save rural hospitals in Kansas when that is not the representative I covered the United States state Senate not too long ago where the when the number one Republican project of President Donald Trump and Republicans in the Senate was to destroy get rid of the Medicaid expansion get rid of the ACA entirely but in particular the Medicaid expansion. People will remember it was when Senator John McCain stepped into the well and gave the thumbs down killing that proposal. Why do you think now in a conservative place like Kansas? The majority leader of your Republican Senate is now saying Medicaid expansion. Yes why. Why is that happening? Well I'm going to guess it's a an election year and he's concerned about whether or not he could re win his election. Simple as that. It's as simple as as an essay to the people in his constituency want Medicaid expansion in Johnson County one probably the wealthiest stuck county in our state state that Medicaid expansion is their number one priority representative Brenda land wear into Pika member of the Kansas House of Representatives. Thank you so much for joining us. Giving us the perspective expect from your state. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it Read Wilson when you contrast the Republican project here in Washington at the beginning of the trump administration and even even before to fight tooth and nail against every dollar that Medicaid expansion it went to the Supreme Court. It is remarkable that in a state like Kansas as conservative as they come. Republican politicians are now trying to expand medicaid. And they're not alone. Well we've seen this in a number of different states. I mean in Mike Pence's Indiana when he was governor they expanded Medicaid. They called it something something different Which is one of the strategies we've seen of late college college? I think they called Hoosier care out there and expanding by a different name. Something we've commonly seen. I think a lot of these states realized that there's money for the taking there's federal money that can be it can be grabbed for their own budgets. Always been the case. Why different right now? Well because fewer people are paying attention now I had one republican lobbyists say to me. The battle on Medicaid expansion has been fought and lost so why not just take the money now when people are paying less attention to it than than they have in the past now. We're GONNA see similar pushes in states like Oklahoma and Tennessee and of course we just heard from representative land where in Kansas so This is this is still a project for the few remaining states that have not expanded Medicaid. Let's go to another state. One of you left this message in our in box. From the north of the country Mark Jackson Michigan. I hope that our legislature and our governor can get together and rewrite the tax code for Michigan. I like to see him. mm-hmm tax the junk food the Soda Pop Candy that they sell at the dollar stores and liquor stores because there's absolutely no taxes to fix fix the roads to keep people from losing their houses. I've written to the governor. I just don't see a Republican legislature is going to do anything different. But as our cities crumble. Well we have to do something different. Well in his home state of Michigan the so called blue wave that we saw in two thousand eighteen was not quite strong enough to turn the Republican controlled House and the Senate in Mark's Home State but Democrats have flipped eight states Senate or House Chambers since two thousand eighteen in Virginia in two thousand nineteen election results mean that the incoming session which starts today is under full Democratic Control for Democrats for the first time in decades joining us now is Democrat Jennifer. McClellan the state senator from Virginia senator. Welcome thank you for having me great to have you a senator. Democrats have not had this kind of power in Virginia in most people's memory now reports are that you all plan to move really fast in Richmond on a bunch of high profile things. How do you expect Democrats to set the agenda? What's I out of the gates so there are a number of bills that for years have been killed on a party? Line vote that will move pretty quickly Ratifying line the equal rights amendment making US thirty a state banning discrimination in housing employment against the LGBTQ A Q.. Community protecting Virginia's from gun violence combating climate change and moving towards renewable and clean. Energy standards are redistricting reform fully funding our education system And and really grow in the economy in a way that doesn't lead the lower and in middle income families behind. That's a long list. You're going to bite off a lot. They'RE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IN VIRGINIA. That's on the agenda right one of several things. We'll be discussing. Yes and talk about the removal of confederate monuments. It's been an issue across the country. There are lots of confederate monuments across Virginia Jenny. You go across the bridge from here in Washington. DC across the Potomac end right away. You're on Lee Highway and in State Law Right now. We take the authority away from local governments to decide what to do with those monuments. And so I think we're going to give them that power back. They should be the ones making those decisions and not US here in Richmond. Read when you hear the representatives. The Assembly Woman's agenda in Virginia reflective of the Democrats agenda now that they have power for the first time. What what do you see is an analyst? What does it mean for Purple Virginia to go democratic for the first time well it hints at what the population changes we've seen in other states around the country I mean Virginia did not go blue because of an influx of You Know Hispanic voters or some influx. Some you know young awakening or something like that. They date turned blue. Because a whole bunch of Californians New Yorkers moved into northern Virginia to take tech jobs and that's similar to what we've seen in states like Texas and Arizona and North Carolina and Georgia. And it's why I think I think we've got one of the larger presidential battleground maps that we're gonNA see In the last several decades I mean they're just simply more states in play because our population is changing so much watch. DITTO tweeted this here. In Virginia fired up citizens have chartered buses to rally against laws perceived to limit gun rights. Even though these laws have been on the books for a years Gloucester County was among the first to declare a second amendment sanctuary. The Board of Supervisors voted unanimously on December fourth to adopt a resolution resisting any any action by the General Assembly in Richmond that might limit their gun rights that term sanctuary is a loaded one conservatives in Virginia taking it for their own assemblywoman Jennifer McClellan. What about the county of Gloucester? What about conservatives in Virginia who were going to get fired up over this issue? I think there's a lot of misinformation information about what we are are not going to do that. Air Some folks are using to fire up. Their base You know we had an election where Virginians may clear. They wanted be taken to address gun violence. And and we're going to do that where we're NOCCO confiscate everybody's guns John's and that's that misinformation being spread in a way that I think is stoking. Fear and anger Senator McClellan. This isn't the first time I've done this in my political medical journalism. Career I- demoted you. I called you assemblywoman in your a senator. So I apologize. Tell tell your colleagues. They might be happy. That I- demoted you on the air. But you you are indeed a senator Redistricting is also going to be a big issue. Senator in state houses across the country. Twenty twenty cents. It's this coming. And then afterward it will be the responsibility of legislatures in most states. Not all to redraw those maps. How important is this process to you? It's very important That was essential a part of this election that that voters want by Bipartisan redistricting. They take Partisanship gerrymandering out. We also want to ensure that communities communities of color Still have an opportunity to elect candidates of their choice and so We're not just GONNA look who draws the maps but the criteria you you so they produce fair baps where citizens choose their representatives and not the other way around a big broad agenda from Democrats in Virginia Senator Editor Jennifer McClellan. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you for your time. Thank you were about to be sworn-in well go get sworn in. And you'll you'll be a senator as soon as you do a read. Read Wilson The takeover by Democrats. I think I said if eight Legislative houses in two thousand eighteen. Is this just the best metric of anti-trump is is. Is that what that was. It was the metric that we had at the state level and remember that the twenty ten midterm elections President Obama's first term that Democrats lost a huge number of state legislative chambers numbers across the country. They lost something like seven hundred individual seats and this time around Republicans lost about three hundred fifty or so I'm not equating leading the two. Because they were drawn or held elections held under different lines and different circumstances etcetera but the fact is a party loses that many seats and it become the election becomes a referendum random on the party and the person at the head of the Party so those state legislative seats tend to be the best bellwethers. I think for the current political mood because we just tend to vote more generically for the D. or the R. Than we do by thinking about the individual candidate we are always hungry for actual data in the political reporting wording business fundraising is one thing polls lousy so we try to look at how people have actually voted. That might be the best thing Read we're going to go in a minute before you go. I want to get your look ahead. You're going out on the road now. Soon you said to Iowa into some other places what's your look ahead. What are you looking for in this in this last month before the caucus so I'm looking for something that I have not covered As much as I probably should have in the past and that is the Bernie Sanders surge. It looks like he is building more support than I think he has. In the past he had an incredible fundraising quarter He has done better in the three months after having a heart attack than I think any politician in the history of modern politics. I mean this is. It's amazing that he's only three months wants out of the hospital Is His real. Is it sustainable. And can he grow beyond the base that he built in two thousand sixteen if he does. He's going to be a real contender for the nomination. Read Wilson says the burn. That's real revenue tweets. Why you guys go out of your way to avoid talking about Bernie Sanders? He's the top fundraiser by light years. The Guy Why is the front runner. Hey Revenue Gotcha read. Wilson just reported on the burn he says it is as real as it can be Ryan tweeted sanders still like last time. Beats trump in the polls biden. Isn't it one Ryan's opinion from our one A.. Listener core. That's the twenty twenty election. There's a lot to look to read. I'm glad that you're coming back. You'RE GONNA go out on the trail but this isn't goodbye. You'RE GONNA come back about once a month and keep us updated on twenty twenty read Wilson National Correspondent for the hill author of epidemic Ebola and the global scramble to prevent prevent the next killer read. We'll see again safe travels. Thanks for being here. Basically this conversation was produced by climate and Emmanuel Johnson and edited by Matthew. Simonsen you can learn more about them and the rest of the team at the website. The one eight dot org. This program comes to you from W. Amu part of American University in Washington it's distributed attributed by NPR. I'm todd's Willie thank you so much for being with us as always this is one