20 Episode results for "Julia Alexander"

Startup Streamer Quibi...Quits

Business Wars Daily

06:40 min | 3 months ago

Startup Streamer Quibi...Quits

"Now there are more ways to be a team with Microsoft teams bring everyone together in a new virtual room collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team on screen at once learn more at Microsoft Dot com slash teams. From wondering, I'm David Brown in this business wars daily on this Thursday October twenty nine. A huge Hollywood experiment ended its life in a way that seems somehow fitting qube accompany designed to bring miniature Netflix's quality shows to your smartphone call. It quits earlier this month like it's programs which were no longer than ten minutes apiece. quickies vary life was itself short only about six months long the infant media company hit attracted almost two billion dollars from investors about one hundred, fifty, million dollars in advertising and some big name actors and directors. As a result quibbles dramatic closure has spawned no end of speculative criticism about what the startup did wrong and whether it's leaders Hollywood powerhouse, Jeffrey Katzenberg and former HP. CEO Meg Whitman did anything right? In case you haven't heard of it. The original idea behind Qube was to make high quality programs that were short enough to watch from start to finish. While waiting to do something else say riding the subway were standing at checkout line. These wouldn't be user generated youtube like videos but what qube envisioned as the quote next generation of storytelling dramas comedies a non-fiction programs cut into quick bites the origin of the company's name you get the idea. QUBE had the bad luck to launch during the pandemic that meant the service designed explicitly for people out and about debuted when people were in definitely not out and about position as another streamer. But Not at first on your TV quickly did what most streamers and new apps do when it launched in early April it offered a ninety day free trial about a million and a half people signed up and presumably began watching quickies original shows thrillers like. Wireless about a drunk man caught in a New Year's Eve snowstorm free Ray Sean drama about a black man accused of killing a police officer and last looks a series about scandals in the fashion world. As I said earlier at launch, you can only watch on a smartphone despite the fact that most viewers were quarantined in their homes with perfectly usable TV's at their disposal. It took a few more months for quick to make the TV leap. The question back in May and June was how many of those initial free viewers would convert to paying customers quickies price was high five month with ads were eight dollars without them as the verge points out apple TV plus costs four, ninety, nine a month worse quickies higher prices more expensive than Disney plus. The answer on those conversions was clear. Qube didn't get anywhere near enough money or viewers, and with that dearth viewers, some advertisers threatened to canceled on October Twenty Second Katzenberg Whitman published an open letter on medium announcing queries collapse. The founders laid some of the blame on Covid nineteen but not all in addition to timing they said, another likely reason could be. That the idea itself wasn't strong enough to justify a standalone streaming service. Indeed. A great deal of the criticism says exactly that the format itself was flawed from the start ten minutes may have been far too long for some content and far too short for others. A sort of nether world that works for user generated youtube content, but not for expensive productions that aspire to be the next Netflix. As one example, the Guardian reporter. Jack Bernhardt commended free ratio on actors Steffan Jones Laurence Fishburne an emmy winner. Jasmine Safest Jones for spectacular performances in powerful production. But he added quote it feels almost offensive to everyone involved that I can only watch it on tiny phone screen. Furthermore, he said it should have been a two hour film not fifteen quick bites. The company is exploring selling the rights to some content screenwriters and producers with shows underdevelopment or left to try to sell them elsewhere a tough sell given that most media companies can't use five or ten minute episodes. is returning about three hundred, fifty million dollars to investors and giving severance to two hundred employees. The Wall Street Journal reports, Katzenberg and Whitman's letter puts quickies. Of the entire very busy streaming media ecosystem the executives would never have imagined launching during a pandemic they said, but they admitted other businesses have faced these unprecedented challenges and have found their way through it. Indeed, we've reported here on boom times for Netflix's and Disney plus among others all of benefited enormously from lockdowns. The mistake Qube made lies in a different sphere altogether says verge critic Julia Alexander Qube didn't fail because TIKTOK. existed she says, it failed because executives refuse to see Tiktok its biggest competition she wrote tick tock has exploded globally with an ever growing mountain of user generated short form video video that is virtually free to produce free to consume. But qube had its I trained on net flicks if Alexander is correct quimby was looking for threats or a role model in the wrong direction. In an already struggling Hollywood, it's hard to watch the layoffs of employees and the suffering of artists who shows are now killed. A great deal of talent converged around quipping remains to be seen. We're all that talent. Finding out. From wondering this is business wars daily subscribe on Apple podcasts, spotify, wondering APPA wherever you're listening right now joined, wondering plus wondering APP to listen. AD. Free. I'm your host David Brown. This episode was written and produced by Lane Appleton. Edited by important our executive producer is Marshall. Louis created by earn on Lopez. Or wondering. Now, there are more ways to be a team with Microsoft teams bring everyone together in one space new virtual room collaborate live drawing sharing and building ideas with everyone on the same page and make sure more of your team is seen and heard with up to forty nine people on screen at once learn more about all the newest teams features at Microsoft, Dot com slash teams.

Qube Katzenberg Whitman Netflix Microsoft Jeffrey Katzenberg Julia Alexander Qube David Brown Hollywood apple Disney HP Guardian Jasmine Safest Jones Covid Lane Appleton emmy executive producer
Galaxy S21 Ultra review / Apple redesign rumors / Paramount Plus and 2021's streaming services

The Vergecast

1:22:25 hr | 4 d ago

Galaxy S21 Ultra review / Apple redesign rumors / Paramount Plus and 2021's streaming services

"Today on the verge cast martinsburg and julia alexander join us. We talk about the samsung galaxy. S twenty one ultra review a whole bunch of apple rumors including vr headset and the state of streaming in two thousand twenty one. That's now in the forecast. If you game you know settling into your battles station feels enlivening but gaming on ellian year with intel core processors. It's more than that. It's a feeling you won't forget. It's where intentional design blurs the line between fantasy and reality. It's where your gear feels like an extension of you sometimes. It's so immersive so responsive you can't tell yourself from your machine if you're ready to feel one with your gear start gaming at alienware dot com featuring the alienware m fifteen has brought to you by plaid building a fintech app or service in the ground up plaid can help you get started with platt's api your users can securely connect with their bank accounts to your app in seconds over three thousand of some of the most popular fintech apps and services or already using plaid in fact one in four us dolts have used plaid account to plaid powered app to pay back the remit for us. It's pizza save money and holiday shopping or take control of their financial future with just a few lines of code. You can start building with plaid today. Visit plaid dot com slash. Averge gas to learn more. Hello casts the flagship. Podcast cast of reema. Zagan has those detours. That's my yeah details here idea. Hi i'm a you you're you're everybody's friend. Yeah i'm the free dark mode option. You get on your wordpress template. That's good everybody wants option. We have said minute. We've got some today. I'm gordon mortgage here. Julia alexander's here. There's a lot going on i Before we started according to is that is at once a very quiet week in our corner of the news ecosystem but it is also very dramatic. News fill the week. So we're going to try to mash things together as always i will start with cova. Update if you're listening to this and you do not know. The joe biden is the president. I'm very worried about your nuisance. Option habit habits like straight up. I just listened to me. I'm worried about you. I want you to know that. Joe biden is president which means the nation's covid plans are changing very rapidly. I think as we're talking. He's signing more executive orders. It's just what he's doing on his first two days so he already has indicated that the united states will not withdraw from the world health organization. He assigned a mask. Mandate you have to wear masks in federal buildings and federal properties. He's talking about expanding that mask mandate he has moved quickly with a plan to deliver one hundred million vaccination shots in his first one hundred days because the vaccinations are in two doses. You can get lost. In a spiral of the first shot in the second shot and how many people actually get vaccinated out of fully vaccinated hundred million doses. But hundred million shots is the plan. Then how it will be expressed in terms of people vaccinated yet to be explored but it is a big move. Also we cnn reporters that the trump administration had really no plan for vaccine distribution honest. I believe now there is some plan so just a lot of covid related movement immediately from biden. He's that was his priority. Amazon came out the sent a letter to him saying they would help with vaccines logistics. Which if you're not being very charitable you'd say well why didn't they offer to help donald trump. It's a very obvious question. The answer is have been reported out. They apparently offered in some soft way. They were rebuffed by the sort of cast. The trump administration. Also i would note that donald trump hates. Jeff bezos deeply. That just kind of went. Nowhere but Kind of a big move. It was a letter in a very forcefully. Saying we have all this capability will help you. I will tell everyone. I still believe this. It's still true. Covid is the biggest story in the world. That is still the driver of almost everything else. That's happening in in one way or the other we're going to keep covering it. We're going to keep doing. Covert updates atop the show. We're going to be just as hard on the new administration as we were on the previous one. Although i expect the level of chaos will diminish so we got to be hard on my consistent policy decisions as opposed to tiktok banned by tweet. It's just very nice to think that that that kind of thing would happen anymore. But we're still gonna cover science team still doing a great job. Other biden stuff. New president of new people in the works jessica rosenworcel who has been on the verge house before on the characters that we've covered very closely as we've been covering the fcc for years. She's the new acting. Fcc chair is auto rumors about who will become the officially appointed fcc chair but for now she acting chair. She's very focused on broadband access on the homework. Apnea charlie we'll put a link mckenna and i interviewed her over the summer. Actually in the us. We'll we'll put a link somewhere so you can listen to that. That's what interesting by also said the united states will rejoin the paris climate agreement. We've got some coverage that without actually means he cancelled the keystone excel pipeline. He said he's going to use the defense production. Act for massenet scenes teasers. Doing a lot of stuff. He doesn't have a congress behind me yet but he's got a bunch of executive actions pat. So we're going to cover all that stuff very closely our policy team. I will tell you. They're very happy not being reactionary mood. Right there's a bunch of new people a new plans to cover and they're not necessarily reacting to tweet so lost you there. Once you my commitments. Everyone is very tough on this administration to well eater. I think there's a. There's a website news here. I think he's a very excited about white house. Dot gov there's There's a request to go work for them. If you want to in source code if you remember that web pages lets you look at the source code which is a thing and it has dark mode but everyone was very excited. Dark mode in their phones to the new icon but Immediately pointed out that it has dark mode because it's wordpress that's good that's our head notes. That's the big stories in the world. i don't have. I can't figure out how segue them into the galaxy. S twenty one ultra view. Those are the big stories. Here's a big phone they go. That's pretty good so dinner. We talked a little bit last week. But you have the ultra. Did he review this week. What's on big phone. So when the round of hands on's went up a bunch of people are like is this redemption. And i was like no. There's no way yeah samsung. did it take. The phone is really good. They fixed all of the things except for may arguably might be the most important thing which is samsung thinks. Software should be in. Do but the hardware the phone. I am very hard pressed to knock it in any way shape or form. The only possible thing. That's like worrisome about the hardware is the phantom black finish. Might be a little delicate like we managed to scratch ours. Do we get an answer on this not yet. We asked you know told them scratched. What the heck. I haven't seen that you know. So it's one of those. So we'll see jerry rig everything i'm sure we'll get one and put a you know. Get tell us what the score is on it and then that will cause a whole another round of excitement but like the important stuff If you don't get the fan of black one is the screens incredible. It has the what's it called the l. Something something lead that. Let's do dynamic refresh rate along with the snapdragon eight eighty eight processor so it can go from ten to one hundred twenty dynamically. It's big six point eight inches. It has a little bit of curve on the sides it has the same samsung color tuning but setting. Its natural makes it find It's like it's the best green. Yeah just as looking at it up right next to an iphone from max. You will detect a different color temperature and especially on whites. I think apple's a little bit cooler and so might be just a little bit more Accurate in that way but apple doesn't have a high refresh rate and the color temperature differences so subtle that i would argue. It's a it's a matter of preference rather than a matter of like full-on accuracy. Also all of these phones have slightly different color temperature variations from literally phone to phone the phone. The phone with you. And if you had ten iphone twelve's they would have a slight amount of variation that to me is always the one i will people ask and i want to tell them and answer it and i'm like this answer doesn't mean anything. Yeah also does it. Does the hundred twenty hurts at the full resolution this time which is correct fantastic at three hundred fourteen forty. I just turned it on and went with it And it did not obviously affected battery life. But i didn't have a problem with battery life. there's a couple of reports that some people may not have had great battery life but most people. I'm seeing really. Yep you'll get through a full day easy. I was getting through a day and a half easy with like heavy usage. And it's a five thousand mellon power battery. Mike right and the eighty eight is more should should be more power efficient than the eight sixty five. Obviously you know. I'm not running the kind of need to do to actually test that but yeah the thing lasts all day for sure and like into the second problem clearly. Samsung is is no longer slightly afraid of putting too big a battery these fun but i mean it's a huge phone to was huge. Yeah okay compared to is just like. It's good to see them get their confidence back. Yeah that's fair. So the screen samsung notable for its extremely vibrant colors very bright samsung as far as i know like lives in like hdr ten plus world in not dolby vision world. Does it support like. When can you watch netflix. And hdr on. This thing is it just share ten. It's share ten. I haven't gone and like stared at h. Yard all the video app's video looks better on this phone than it doesn't other phones. They've increased peak brightness in hdr. Fifteen hundred last year was twelve hundred. But yeah if you wanna if you wanna throw down on me whether or not all the odds have all the w. vision lights i will. I will run out of the ability to answer that pretty quick. I suspect they're running. Short is just notable of all of the specs. Right like with this phone in particular samson's like name spec say anything number of cameras and they're like we have the the most of those. That's this phone and then this one little corner there's like no no information. Yeah well there's there's two corners to specs that are not here. one is expandable storage micro. St is gone. And i think it's going to land with everyone's gonna be like Like i'm like. Oh i'm sad and like there is the point that this thing will let you shoot hundred megapixel photos and take video so maybe expandable storage isn't a terrible idea but that's gone and then the other thing that's gone that's notable is m. s. t. I forget what meant magnetic something. It's the thing that lets them. Use credit card readers when there's no nfc And so that's out. So i don't know they. Both of those are the sort of thing that felt like it was going to happen eventually anyway. And this was the time for them to do it. Because alongside all this new version of the fixing. The cars lovable blah. They dropped the price across the board and they achieved those price drops in different ways on the different models of the twenty. One i think on the ultra. It was the card reader. it was t- It was you know the reason a lot of the stuff they did last year. Honestly scream as a hair smaller screens. A tiny bit smaller. Yeah it's point point one inch smaller. You could argue. They did the thing that apple didn't do. Which was they took the ac adaptor out of the box and also didn't charge you for it or as apple to adapt out of the box unless the price basically the same. Yeah but app. You have to pay the pay per square sides on how much it costs. Twenty nine dollars of the fun. Well the reason i bring up is you know we're gonna with the cameras at length but apple does shoot dolby vision. Screen is good at that. It's very hard like once. You got the dolby vision. File on your iphone if it ever leaves your iphone like you don't ever w vision file that's how it has played out. Yeah right it's like it's very difficult to share that thing but it looks great on your phone. Yeah right and it's like it's it's just competing with that aspect of it with their big beautiful screen. So basically i'm arguing with you saying it's the best green not because of the screen itself but because of this other capability that i've come to really enjoy it with photos and videos on the right. I would counter with high. Refresh rate is ten times more important than delete isn't support in video like it's it just as It's great i'm a theater. It looks really good one thing. I'll note disaster time looking at things on the screen. I looked at a bunch of the photos. Especially the low light photos on the phone itself. And i was like. Oh my god. This is incredible. And then i went to look at the comparison. I mac which has an lcd screen. He's a look as good And they asked about this and they like yeah. We definitely lead is our primary thing that we tune for. That's that's what we aim to make our photos. Look good on when we like tune the camera and blah blah and you can see it in the shadows where lcd at. It shows a little bit more noise whereas an led it. Can it actually has better range in those darks. And so it's i don't know i don't know if more forgiving is the right word but it looks better on a screen that does on an lcd. Panel we kind of hear this from every phone maker right. They know the place. You're going to look at the photos on their screens because the screens are small and bright. They can get away with a lot of things that a larger screen is. It's harder to do though versus. Lcd thing is like this. It's an every review we this thing happens. We take photos and then we look at them on a neutral display. So like that's the best comparison and then it was always they'll cds. Yep that's what computer monitors are. There are very few oland computer monitors. i think Or i think there's actually team but like we. We look at everything on like nice. Lcd's and that's where the the like. There's the one comparison the big objective compare. How sharp is the photo. How much detail did it kill. How much the noise reduction smooth everybody's faces into oblivion you're talking about is samsung photos looking credible on samsung displays. Yet they just they always have actually never been the question right. If you if you any almost any samsung phone for the past five years you take a photo. Look at on the phone everyone. That's the best photo and it's because the displays so bright and so good and then take. It often happens looking at the photos you took in your view. I see the. I see the lead is is helping in the shadows thing but what i really see is samsung has met the iphones level of quality and then their little decisions on the margin of where the processing is gonna work. Yeah they have leaned into how good their screens are in the fact that everyone is going to look their screens into the photos are a little bit worse. But they know that they know their hardware is going to overcome their software which is like the most samsung thing in the world. The the thing that i also wonder is Between a samsung and apple in particular. How much are they thinking about. What instagram is gonna do to the photos when they on the people. That's put their photos right when they get processed by instagram. Are they trying to like. I don't know tune their photos defensively so that it looks better instagram. Once it's up or not it's impossible to know. Incident is a really interesting case because the instagram camera itself is not the camera of well. On on the ultra though samsung worked with instagram. To make sure that instagram's camera would pull and support more of samsung's native processing out of its camera app than on other android phones because famously stories on instagram look like garbage if you shoot them with an android phone samsung trying to fix that but for even i think now the standard instagram camera is the video camera because they want you to be able to hold the button and shoot a video when you open the camera and instagram and just take snapshot you're describing a frame of the video camera like what's your defensively tuning your camera for instagram. Like the first thing you do it'd be like taking your cameras and even using her. It's not even that's the video camera. I guess this question surveys of the phone companies do you care about the platforms that people actually use. And i'll say yes this for all the time. Don't you think the answer is really no like we constantly asked him if they care about youtube when they ship video features like we. We're talking to you ben. So yeah look at youtube. I feel like it's the same answer dealers anyway. Yeah for sure. It's yeah. I feel bad passing photos and instagram. All julia was posted to your grid on instagram on. My birthday took a really great selfie while tipsy. Actually to my birthday with that so Two weeks ago. Oh there you go. I just forget now. Mike promoting decoder. I'm grid so great. It's just like a wall of yellow text which i feel like you've any instagram designers or looking at my grade. They're like this is not what we made this for design. You mentioned the design. Your intrigued by. I really liked design like the camera. Bump is the big change. And they just like glued it to the rail and it just kind of flows out from the rail now and it looks good in a way that camera bumps on bones haven't for like a very very long time and especially compared to last year. Which was really ugly. Do you remember the phone. Six s. apple showed a photo of the phone. The website that was angled just so to hide the tiny little rail of a camera bump that they had that year and we did all this fricken like geometry. Check to see if it was angled it away or if they had actually photoshop it out and you know that went away but when camera goes i started getting big. Every time i would happen we would all be like. Oh this is weird looking but okay. I guess And then we stop doing that. But fundamentally most camera bumps are weird looking. And it wasn't until i was like looking at the ultra when they tradit actually tried to make it integrate into the body of the phone in a way that cohered a little bit more Does like oh yeah like. This actually looks good and the stuff that i'd been taking for granted was normal. Actually is still. We heard the iphone camera. Bump is weird looking compared to this thing. Yeah and like the ultra is a little weirder looking than the than the smaller ones. Just because it's so much it's got so much stuff but it still looks good in like like the iphone one dozen. It's it's like. Why is there a giant square on the back of my phone. Now i really. I continue to believe the iphone is designed to be put into new case absolutely and then it kind of doesn't matter right like i think apple knows it. They're like when they get life easier on on our somewhat mediocre case designers and then the other case designers in the industry like like apples casey their cases are fine. They're not great especially like elmo. Thanks one but i like the simpson like the rail. Apples leaned into their bump bidden. Very sort of johnny out of isn't there anymore but it feels very johnny i to me. He's like i'm gonna take this ugly thing and then you're gonna love it. It's so ugly that you're like that apple's done it again. It's the purest camera bump that has ever been bumped and samsung's what if we try in like a precious. I appreciate it. Let's talk about these cameras. There's five of there's five holes but four cameras now there's five cameras and six holes. I don't think a person with fear of holes. But every time. I leave this picture. I'm like what if i was. If there's some holes there's five on the back so you have got the the Ultrawide you've got hundred eight megapixel main you've got the three x telephoto. And you have the ten x periscope telephoto and then the other whole is the laser autofocus. And there's a flash over there too in the front have a forty megapixel selfie camera that I had to do the math megapixels. But it's like six point five megapixel on the on the front by default. But you can't take forty if you want so. The camera system is five cameras. One of the front for in the back and the big question was last year. The original twenty ultra was supposed to be samsung's giant swing. We are now like in the fight with everybody else on having the best camera and it just wasn't focused issues it It did super wacky things with Color and face smoothing Face moving did not get better note. Twenty ultra They fixed the autofocus with a laser. Which this twenty one ultra continues. But they still over. Smooz faces a dubbed it. The ham kam and so what they did this year. Is they have a new version of their sensor. I think it's a cell h three years. Something it's the second generation of this hundred eight megapixel sensor they continue to use their laser for autofocus for things that are nearby and they say that they have updated the re mosaic and process so taking the binning the hundred eight megapixel down to twelve But when i ask exactly how it's a little bit unclear lots of hand waving and i think maybe just as importantly as that is they've also taken advantage of the extra speed i think image processing. They can get out of the snap. Eighty eight to do a better job of grabbing in multiple images or data from other lenses when you're using a different lens to make the image better so they're just doing a slightly better job than before at combining a bunch of images into giving your final image. I don't know if they're quite up to the levels that Apple google are in that regard but the hardware because it has that larger sensor Has made up for a lot of the deficiencies that they had last year. The hardware plus like fixing some the tuning in the software So i think this thing is on par with the iphone twelve pro max in the majority of situations and then when you start getting the edge cases. It's like sixty forty the proactive you. I was like all these cameras with the same now. Yeah maybe it was just like depressed. There's there's like a better than fifty percent chance like low. Nothing matters but you know i try my best. But they all are starting to look the same to me right. The phantasmagoric fan samson look and the overly blown out or like highlight destroying. Look like they've all just kind of leveled back to you. Photos should look like photos. Yeah what do you mean by like the margins around the edges. Where are they different so samsung because it likes to make things a little bit brighter. Apples apple learn from. Google is allowing more contrast and more shadows to exist. I think it has more confidence. And its ability to render dark things. Well we're samsung is just brightening things up a little bit and that's a lack of confidence in dark things or if it's just that they know that you know like you marquesses photo challenge every year. The brighter photo always wins no matter what the actual quality is really believes that too so it's always a little bit brighter. Which in some situations is great. It actually like oh that worked better and other situations. It's just like you didn't need to do that if you just let it. Be a little bit darker would've looked better So in those cases. I think that The iphone can contend to win. I do think that They make slightly different choices in like the dynamic range in contrast to what they choose to let be let be dark and sometimes they're a toss up but yeah like it like tried to systematize wear exactly one wins and the other falls down. I would have to say that. I think the iphone is still doing slightly better in like night mode in the late. But that doesn't mean that samsung is doing. A bad job is having a better job than it ever has before But i think i slightly prefer the way that apple handles things like neon and late shining through whatever they both have the dot effect but samsung's are bigger samson's like we read this interview complain about the dots in the video. We should have bigger dots since like you. Didn't you missed it. That wasn't what we said. I went out to try and get the dots to get it in the video but it was the day that there was a huge advisory in the bay area and the phone like blew out of my hand almost almost dropped it so i was like no. You're not. i'm not not doing this back. I almost got hit by a christmas tree. That was like flying down downtown. Oakland like a tumbleweed. This is what i do to try and make reviews it was do you like loudly l. Anything for the graham at that moment. In time it's the obvious move to zoom lenses useful. Not useful shockingly useful. I was full on ready to be like this is dumb. It's dumb it's great. The ultra beats the iphone every time. Zoom up to like basically every time everything because you get optical at three and you get optical at ten and then in between three and ten it can combine data grabs from like zoom lenses or crop from the main center or whatever to give you something pretty sharp and the once you go beyond your space zoom land And you know it's a mess at one hundred at thirty. If you have good light you could maybe get something you'd be willing to post but Yeah turns out like an obstacle lens. is better than Digital and having two of them means that you can do more things in that like in that range you don't have to resort to cropping in on digital stuff as soon as you do the other way. Yeah w- sent out like a light room album and like you click through like looking all the photos. And i got like dealer tests. Zoom ones part of the album. And it's me just like getting progressively closer and closer to something by the time it's just like a smear of pixels that makes no sense. It's like why would you ever use the hundred like it was very funny like i'm living in a meme like i'm just getting closer and closer waterfall and it's getting less and less intelligible what it is yeah what else Video is good like what they're doing with sharpness. We'd like what they're doing with They won a couple years ago. Apple really touted its video ability to adjust exposure on the fly without having to cut like as it moved like a bright to dark spot by just painting through it. Samsung is figured that out It's able to do that now pretty well. We need to go and we'll probably do something in the future. Like really actually like go in on eight k and can you actually grab a good still. Can you like do a full crop on k video It's just like you get through the city. Don't don't deal with the camera again. But it's time to like actually talk about whether or not eight k is worth. Nfl like this. You can also do director mode which locks at ten eighty let. Let's switch between lenses on the fly. That's cute it's fun. I have a question for the room. Okay so because i've been plagued by this thought ever since apple commercials play every sunday for during football showing people making movies on their phones. Are the cameras being designed for normal consumers now or is it like the ideas that everyone's making a movie on their phone. Because like i don't know how to use my camera other than portrait mode which speaks to my narcissism. But but i don't know how to do anything with it and every every commercial you're saying about samsung. It just feels like it's per professionals. They're trying to do both and often. That means they don't do either well. I think that samsung is focused. A little bit more on doing stuff for professionals. Their camera has promo codes for photo and video built into the camera app. It's actually there's a million settings and buttons you can get lost very very fast. It has this thing where it can dynamically adjusted rate. If you wanted to so that it like it can do some stuff with frame rate. It's like nobody wants everyone like everybody wants to lock the frame rate. What he knew one thing about having all those pro options is it. Means that if your auto option isn't as good you can just be at the pros use the one so it's fine. You know what. I mean so to me. The answer is they're trying to do both Samsung leans a little bit more pro than than apple does in its camera app because it ha- apple has a good third party ecosystem of like professional video on the iphone entered has a much smaller. We'll call it ecosystem professional video android. So yeah. I don't know it doesn't answer the question but like it's aspirational. Right right. wanna buy the thing that makes you believe you shoot a video professionally even though we all know that you're never gonna. Wow not you. Julia like you. I did text a friend and said if i threw my iphone in the air and left it on record with that. Be as good as a chris nolan movie because it couldn't be worse we have to run it backwards and forwards at the same time. And you have to cover the microphones and yell and the other side of the room. I assume chris nolan would die before filming filming a movie with an iphone. No the next iphone is gonna shoot. Finally that's my time. But that was the thing about the apple commercials and reading your review. The samsung stuff. It was just like oh. This is super targeted to people who are making moves. And how many people making movies on their roots making movies some everyone every time. Julius feel like i tell her. What's my calgary right now is people crashing ford ranger's to a song called fuck and ford ranger which is just a guy saying it's not a real song. There's a guy who has like a ford ranger song. That he made up your. Isn't that a real song. No all songs are made up. It's all songs are sounds like. It's just a guy like clapping in talking. If filming a video with your iphone councils of movie than this guy recording and audio track for tiktok as a song heim is joining the creators team. Wow at the scott very ten generally expensive. we'll be back after this break with more on. What is a song. There's but then there's always people like showing off things you can do with a camera right like the upside down. Slow motion through flowers is like a tiktok me and i would just like it's not. You're making a movie to put in theaters but everyone is constantly shooting movies and everyone is constantly. There's some subset of the people who just shoot the little joke themselves or like themselves dancing and then some fraction of that people some fraction of that group wants to do more and if the camera rewards them by having the capability then they're going to use it and like i just see that feedback loop developing really fast. So i think it's much less about technically shoots in dolby vision or technically. It's eight k. Or variable frame rate video which sounds completely bonkers very samsung in much more about it. Some point camera features become memes. Like that's how i'm thinking about it lately. Like the little video like did you know you can do this. Adam azeri was on was on dakota this week and he was talking about instagram threads with their little messaging app. And how threads we was the number one app in the app store over thanksgiving because it auto captions videos and bleeps out swear words so people were using threads to make video and putting it on tiktok and the app itself became a mean. The feature became a mean. This is what apple wanted with clips. And i tried to help him. But the no-one clips clips news. They called me because he didn't call. Anyone else will have its day. It's kind of like another way of saying what you're saying. But like i just i think these features are all there if you want to use them because everyone shoots video now. Everyone is a video maker. Which i think is cool. The very complex and advanced video editing tools like it used in tiktok are not the classic like camera settings tools right and so these phone companies will give you the classic camera settings tools. Because it's aspirational like you could be a pro and whatever it. He actually uses the social interesting complex video. Editing tools that are built into tiktok. Samsung does have this thing called single. Take which is like you. Just hold the shutter button down and it just records a video and then it tries to use ai to like pull out like funny gifts and like the right still moment and whatever you know the the but they're trying shooting samsung single take thing is it is the riskiest. Yeah because the photos come on terrible blink lowest quality. You're like i would never use this when it's actually interesting. Yeah it feels like you're giving the you know. The plot of the terminator movies is like the machines are intelligent. Wipe out humanity. That's what these things. What like you just giving the weapons systems over to the machine and what is going to do is destroy your memory. Like that's what it's designed to bike. You're like oh this is a good argument against like. Yeah there's going to be a tiktok. Trenton like two weeks when when people get there. S twenty one. It's like look at what you can do. Did you see in the midst of all the capital rights and all of those people were were on social media fallout. There's a tweet one around that. One of the writers facebook had made an auto videos about like our year together. Ono was just like with his militia. Oh it's like maybe we shouldn't let him. I do it all the time. Okay we need to take a break. We'll come back and we're really we're going to get into. What is a song game. You know settling into your battle station feels enlivening but gaming on ilene wear gear with intel core. I named processors. It's more than that. It's a feeling you volt forget. It's where intentional design blurs the line between fantasy and reality. It's where your gear feels like an extension of you sometimes. It's so immersive so responsive you can't tell yourself from your machine if you're ready to feel one with your gear start gaming at alienware dot com featuring the alienware m fifteen. Hey it's john ramos. Fear on the host of daily news. Podcast today explained hopefully by now you've made three explained part of your daily routine and great news if so or even if not vox is bringing you. Even more crucial daily content with our new podcast feed box. Quick hits you can subscribe to. Vox quick hits just like any other podcast. But each day will be dropping a few new episode spanning culture politics and policy to deliver you the concise. He had deep explanations. You need on everything from binds. First one hundred days in office to the best netflix binge. Every morning you wake up to new episodes in your feed each coming in under ten minutes in the time it takes you to grab a cup of coffee and breakfast or commute to the couch. You can start your morning more informed. Find vox quick. Hits in your favorite podcast app or ask your smart speaker to play. The vox quick. Hits podcast thanks. We're back time times like lit up. He's like yeah. What's a song. What what is this. I was just having this argument with with my partner. 'cause there's no there's a doctrine of what's your favorite song from a movie. That's a fake song in. It's like just because it's in a movie doesn't mean it's a fake sung. The song exists a song or on the exact same. I love it. 'cause we'll say to each other it's for your page to high because they're all real songs just is yeah. I'm with you. And that concludes our section of what the song all right. There's much apple rumors. Talk about so gherman and other immerses. Well about mac pros low quo ditch touch bar faster faster m-series processors they're gonna bring back safe. There's this line. There's this a line which i cannot comprehend. You will need fewer dangles like are they going to put. Usb ports on one hd report is an st card slot plays or will they just have fewer ports so that you can physically unicef. You're like many ways to interpret that line. just be my more. Usb and then. There's more usb accessories. I'm i mean i'm really excited to find out what they say about. Getting rid of the touch par. I'll be fun. The mac safe. Oh i don't know i i have. I have my doubts. You remember there. Was that patent. Where there was like a mac book charging an ipad iphone charging and apple airpods or whatever it was the other way around Maybe it'll have bank safe as like a way to charge your phone. But you won't actually get the proper mega connector. That's kinda like seemed more likely to me. I don't want old. Mac safe back and this is going to be. I like usb c. I would really like apple to to not end this beautiful four year run of using the same port as everyone else by switching back to a proprietary answers are going to modify the spec to support magnetic charging connections. People have done that though. And it's bad like the way you do that. Is you just to have like a dongle that you stick into your usb c port and then it's like a breakway mac and sometimes it comes out. It's just not good like so. My windows laptop. It came with its own barrel charger. And that's what you need us if you're actually at a game with it but you can charge a usb if you're not doing anything to intense and it'll it'll work just slower. What if apple brings back a maxine. Connector it's a proprietary version. Usb and they don't let you charge by the other usb ports. I think apple with its mfa standards and you know money that it makes off every charger that it will sell could do that like this would not be the first time i ain't more interesting. I mean we'll see here's a bunch of mysteries. But i think they know the touch. Bora has not done what they want to do. They don't even really defend it when we ask what they're like. Well some people like it. And it's not like they've done a bunch of touch innovation. The poor thing is interesting. I could see them at an st card slot to these machines is like a particularly high end pro machines. Something everybody wants like hit or miss. But i will say Depending on how how. These m. series chips go they were already like pushing the limits of what a powered after could deliver the intel chips in the existing sixteen inch macbook pro. It's ninety seven watts that it needs and there are actually not a lot of docs. The can support the sixteen inch macbook pro and drive their power so they were already up against a pretty big limit of what you could do. Well that'll change with us before though because us before will have higher time it'll have higher things us before singer song about us before. No if you wait long enough usb c will eventually get there. I know. I know i've been saying this for half a decade now but is where we are just around the corner for real this time. Yeah and they're going to rename it so like usb three point one generation for like i know how this works anyhow but like the new processors might need less power just like a thing because of the ship so i think there's a lot there but what i'm saying more broadly they're going to change the design. That's the other part of the rumor that they're going to redesign the laptop entirely. Which if he will call the intel transition. They redesigned nothing until the updates were complete. But i think that they as we found out with the macbook air review in the review. They're so confident in these chips that they're not baby stepping through it. The baby stepping through was was that first wave and like if that had gone badly than and the next macbook the sixteen inch would look exactly the same. They they'd keep going slowly but like it worked. So yeah but i mean they also neilan actually had this argument. I was like oh man. They're they're not not going back. They're just. They're starting with the air. He's like yeah. The air is the bestselling maqbool. They sell more of those than anything. So keeping the same design is. It's a weird combination of safe bold like they would not need to instill some sense of confidence that people might get by sticking to the same design because nobody has confidence in the current. Yeah in the sixty inch. Macbook pro designed. Yeah yeah but. I also think they hit such a home run with air. What are the outstanding questions you're going to be. Does it have a fast. Gpu is the battery life longer. Even though the processors so much more capable or should be much more capable. I think but i think it's excited to their the rumors. They'll change his on. There's also the same for the mac rumor that they're going to change. I'm kind of the same general ramirez but this design looking at one right now is so long in the tooth that it is starting to confuse people like i have family members who have texted me hung. They're like i this old. I'm ac what. Can i use it for my. How old and they're like twenty eleven and i'm like that's pretty old. That's ten years old and they're like yeah. We just want to set it up in you know. Use it to watch tv but the wife is really slow. And i'm like well. The wifi card is ten years old and it isn't very fast but looks brand new because it looks the same way ten year old car. You're not like it doesn't go as fast as you can. I like the because it looks the same. It's like literally starting to confuse people that the old ones are old and the ones are meaningfully better because they completely the same so i'm excited and change them and these vessels and looking at them now are and this is the same as the g. Five two thousand six barring a change from plastic to aluminum. I think i think the i mac chin design is the oldest like hardware apple has that it sells might be true. Actually i can't. I can't think of another like laptops. They've updated every four or five years. The other desktops have been updated iphone ipod. Like they haven't used a core designed like this for as long as they've used that macklin one maybe like the bluetooth magic keyboard. Yeah no yeah. But i think that came out with this. But here's the question is really like competition like as with all things like name another all in one design that's pushing apple to update the whereas with laptops like there's like good meaningful. They have to look cool. Well there's the surface studio. Yeah but but that would that would require apple thinking that there should be a touchscreen on. Maybe that's how you sell the touch part though we we got rid of the touch bar because we the whole screen is a touch bar now. Oh god it's coming. I like it it's going to hit when. Us before it comes up. I'm really interested. See what they do with the mac pro because the rumor is they're going to maybe do another until one and they're going to keep the big design but they might do a half size of one that i think quarters feature mostly aluminum exterior and could invoke nostalgia for the power mac g four cube unquote the primacy for cube. I would point out was a notorious failure. They sold none of them. And steve jobs says quote when they try down. He laughed and said we're putting it on ice. That was a real apple. Press release power. Actually four can put on ice and like captain. America is returning fifty years later to save god insecure. maybe they'll do a marvel tynan. There's the disney. i. I think there's one upstairs here. I i think that's interesting. I think the question is like what is the market for many so many slots. It's m two. Mac mini if the mac mini is is the same as the laptops right. Then you have the new higher powered laptops so this is the desktop that goes with it. Sort of makes sense to me about it. We'll see i'm excited. I'm excited you just have new max like they're finally redesigning all these computers. I think that's super exciting. Next one pinched a lot apple rumors this week. the seems completely unsurprising. their prototyping foldable. Iphones yeah i i should i kind of. I don't know we'll see if they ever. That's one of those technologies we're apple will not be early. There's that and also just look i. I mentioned that the s twenty one software has ads in it. Bixby's still bad. Samsung is not great at a bunch of things on software. But you know what they are good at recognizing that you have a big screen. You wanna do. Lots of things on it The yesterday was holding the iphone. Twelve pro max and You can have a split screen on it and it works fine. It works pretty well in fact You can have like at pairs in your little sidebar if you want to. It's complicated for your out but like once you get it you get and you could do more stuff. Samsung's attempt to get soft android to work well on a folding phone has been slightly less successful so to me. It's not just we'll apple. Wait until there's like a good screen that they can fold. That will work for this thing. It's can they get the software right because they haven't gotten the software right on the big iphone. Twelve pro max yet. Frankly the only company that has like the company that has the best idea for what to do in this zone is actually microsoft with the duo. They just like duffed. The execution for many reasons apple can release a folding phone tomorrow. I don't know if i believe that the metaphors from the ipad would translate well to that kind of thing but there's a threshold question here. Is it a razor style. Fold or it's a small thing that open to regular phone size or is it a galaxy fold tile. Fold where it's a phone. That opens for tablet. Apple only makes small phones once every five years and everyone's like so excited and then apple realizes that nobody bought them and then they like put out ice like that was the iphone. Se that appears to be the story with the iphone. Twelve many Which i have. And i love. But i don't think there's a rumor it's not selling well. I've heard that. Remember at the cia mini. I thought the first. Sec sold really really. Well i i see it was also really cheap. Yeah i see was a four hundred dollar phone when the next cheapest iphone was like eight fifty. Yeah i just. I think it's more likely they do the phone that make its big rather than the flippy razor so looking looking at the bloomberg rumor. I think it's it's small. That goes big. Like gherman says it's it's looking at a number but the main one that he calls out is one that unfolds to be the size of twelve pro. Max oh interesting okay. I think that's very far away. I just based on what we've seen from everyone else. Okay last big apple another gherman scoop as apple's deeply into a are which to me completely feels like a gimmick but their first product says twenty twenty two ish timeframe vr headset. That will be very expensive and not sell well but is like the ecosystem kickoff moment for apple. I don't know do you buy this. I buy that apple would be working on this. The idea of apple releasing bad product. It would this like like super expensive super early on doesn't feel like apple like at least traditionally apple's general philosophy is come late and do it better not come early and do it. Worse like traditionally like they are late to things and then they are like But we have done this like foldables. They're not going to be the first with the foldable but if they do there is at least. You know the implicit thing you know. That apple took its time and figured out how to do it really well and let other people make mistakes like a giant via headset. That apple's worried is going to be so heavy that its using fabric and you know has a fan doesn't sound like the kind of like you know. Revolutionary air product or vr product. Also just like what. Would you use an apple. Vr headset for at this point. And maybe that's to figure it out. So i just bought a quest to like super high on it deeter knows and super high in your mean quiet through this whole thing because everybody knows hopefully by now that my disclosure is my wife works for the team makes the oculus quest. So get outta here dater. Are you playing. Beat saver and sabres. Great i'm putting a little bit beat sabre. We bought it. Because i read the kevin roose article in the times about an app called supernatural which is a like a workout at which is basically like beat saver but faster and it's super fun. I think virtuosity my wife. Becky does not care for my gadget habits. She loves the quest to love. Supernatural is like doing guided meditations in morocco and vr. Upstairs all the time this product exists. It's complete it works. It has an app. Ecosystem supernatural the work at nineteen bucks a month like a lot of people pay for it. That's a lot in a relative sense like this is not a blockbuster product but this is like an operating division of facebook. That has an app store like. It's i read this apple. Vr news and it's like do they not know that the quest to exists. You come a year from now with a gigantic heavy product. That has a fan that costs vastly more than than the competition to nine on sale. The question it has to do something that the two dozen because it is like a fairly underpowered qualcomm processor running android like it. Very much is a display technology. Showcase like they made a ninety hurts display. That doesn't give you motion sickness underneath. That is basically a slim android phone i can. I can see how like apple stuff could slot in. You know you have the the games you could get people to make good. Vr games that you know work on on vr. You could get apple music and do like you know concerts and stuff You apple fitness this stuff. Kind of naturally fits sort of look at it but it's just like apples. Vr efforts through no lack of trying a our efforts through no lack of trying. They show them every year. you know. The ipad has the bladder the bladder sensor the. There's practically always on vr demo at all apple's keynote for the last four five years but there's no killer app yet for this And like a lot of the the killer. Vr stuff is like gaming stuff on really high powered gaming pieces. Which if apple's going to try and compete with its apple don't compete on high end gaming stuff because no one makes games for them. Yeah i just. I think this is more of an air headset than a vr headset. Kind of what. I'm getting at is we know like an at scale. Good enough vr. Headset looks like there's no reason for anyone to have to wait a year. Especially at apple's like capability set. You don't need them. They don't need another year of element to basically take the guts of an iphone. Put it into thing and say it has an app store and called a day right like. That's the quest. Is you need to do something way. More demands like the one of the. The processors inside are faster than the m one processors and the new. Why they have to be doing something with all that horsepower. I think they're making an ar headset. That's vr headset right. Like they can't solve the core problem overlaying information onto glasses and making that product small. So they're just making giant product with a bunch of cameras in moved through. Try and vr headset on. That was my next question of if all that is if that is what is the logic like. What's the driving motivation. Like where something. That's bigger and heavier. That has a fan. You're going to be walking around the grocery store with your your fan hat wearing away. You're wearing this weird thing but you look at the look at the fruit and it'll tell you you know that apple's are in season as you're walking around this giant super heavy fan equipped you know supercomputer on your face. A are augmented reality has to has to work in reality is is the thing and if if it's big heavy you know. Ar vr headset. Like you've missed that point plus If we're going to be wearing masks for a very long time and they have to figure out how to stop the fogging issue if you're out and wearing it thing there's just things to take into account i've just looking like if you just add up all of the compromises that are being described by the way this thing can never come out right like a year at so we don't know but if you all the compromises that are being described against the already existing refined scaled product. They have chasing some capability set. That is a way farther away from the existing good product right so the question is an existing good product. They happy chasing something that requires a fan in a battery and a high price and that just has to be like real time video processing in a are. i think they're just trying to use their own ecosystem. They can't wait until they're the glasses are ready. Because that's like six hardware generations away. Yeah so that was. That was my thought though is is the only way this makes sense to me as an early product of the sort. That apple doesn't do is that this is one where you have to have the content. I like you can release an iphone and have it. Just be a very good. You know feature phone which effectively the original iphone was. It was a good feature phone with a browser and you can get the apps later. But vr is so content based you need stuff to do stuff to see in vr and ar arguably also like if there's no if there's no good fitness program if there's no beat sabre then you just have a screen with nothing to to watch on it. Like vr headset. At the end of the day is is a better screen. It's not really a better device. It's not a new type of device so you need to have the stuff to put on it. And maybe this is how apple goose's that but which is what they've been trying to do with their phone ecosystem this whole time and so maybe they just need to turn the corner. We'll see it's out there. We got another year rumors. All right. i missed eater. So we're gonna take a break and come back sooner. Can talk to us. This episode of the broadcast brought to you by story blocks if you're a content creator marketer or freelancer. It's time to ditch the pictures taken on your phone or their sock. Puppet infotainment pieces you keep shooting on your webcam. It's time to get store blocks. With a subscription to starbucks you can access to library over one million high quality stock assets which includes four k footage aftereffects end premiere pro templates and a host of sound effects music. And more if you're tired of whitewash stock library starbucks. Here's you with a restock. 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Shanty moment and release. Apple are thank you. I need to disclose that i. I liked that joke. That's that's my disclosure. Oh my god all right. We're in another earnings moment. We're hearing from some of these companies there's new streaming services just left and right giving it. Just give me give me the state of the state. Quick rundown netflix's past two hundred and three million subscribers globally. Which is pretty impressive. And this year to celebrate because when they passed one million reed hastings had a meal at denny's but he cannot go to denny's the sheer. He's the co-ceo so he had any sent to him at his so he could celebrate two hundred million subscribers. Do we do. We know what denny's meal he got. What did he hit a grand slam. Or what can't remember. I know he tweeted it. But yeah thousand moment moments so they pass two hundred million. They're pretty happy they're going to be. They're going to basically be out of debt by the end of the year for me castle. Positive which was something. People did not expect for them so netflix's in a very good place for any doubters. Their paramount plus is about to launch paramount. Plus is your current. Cbs all access. But when viacom and cbs remerged in twenty. Nine teen time is. I can't remember two thousand eighteen. Cbs got all their good brands back. So now they're relaunching their streaming service as paramount. plus they think paramount's gonna play better with the teens. Can i can i. I'm sorry to stop the run down. But what's plus about it. What does plus mean. There's apple tv plus pair plus paramount pair paramount studios. But the what is the plus. The plus is going to be news sports and then viacom brands. So you're gonna get nickelodeon t. mtv comedy central a few other things but what that actually means is more confusing. Because viacom cbs's entire plan is licensed a bunch of their stuff which is why if you look at net flicks top ten kind of rankings. From nielsen. the us. I can run a whole rant about nielsen ratings. But if it's the only thing we have to look at so if you look at it a every single week viacomcbs dominates leg. It's what people are watching over and over again. And so they keep licensing netflix. It's a lucrative deal for them. They licensed south park warnermedia. Which is why it's on hbo. Max reiss indebted bunch of their other stuff. So what you will actually get. Mount was exclusively. I do not know we know you'll get a football game to air on cbs. They'll be on paramount plus news from. Cbs will be on paramount. Plus i would imagine. I will put it out there. That top gun to will be on paramount plus the same day. It's in theaters Talk maverick whatever they're called they're gonna get me like i've done such a good job of not signing up for cbs access. It's like the only one that hasn't gotten me yet. And i gotta watch this top gun movie then you can go back and watch picard staff. Yeah yeah discoveries yet but discoveries doing pretty good lord man discovery almost got us the this weekend we we were just like man. We need another like unicorn chaser show. We need something. That's just very non stressful. It's like oh what we need is like home renovation shows. That's what we need and there's only one place to watch home invasion shows discovery. Show discrimination can anywhere else. There's like one guy on youtube fixing farmhouse and everything else belongs to them. You know would so funny i was. I think discovery plus will do well. I think netflix thing. So as well because they listed them as a competitor for nearly there there listed in netflix's official letter to shareholders as key as a competitor and it took them a while other companies tillis fortnight and youtube and but they have and now it's like discoveries entering can we. Can i just point something out here. I am pretty certain. Heim was referencing star trek discovery. That was yeah. It was great one hundred per in just because it's any noun we started talking about streaming with the same name. That's what happened to us. The difference between the song is what i want early any word and you're like oh that's a streaming service seventeen dollars some physical here and i realized what happened and there was no. That was great. Dole's like when you watch. Your parents have to separate conversations. But they're like they're having a tool. Normal one thing was plus max why doesn't eat. Hbo maximum plus the thing. Is i've had many conversations with like seafood. Exactly where i'm like. Why do you have a plus because it ruins are it ruins it for us. Ceo seo wise. We have to figure very for plus or plus sign. The idea is that so pluses this brand. Plus more is the idea. So if you're like disney plus it's disney and then some. The mac thing was just a bad branding. Decision in my opinion should an hbo plus something without a plus the gone the nbc route and just named at peacock cbs should name their new streaming service. All access they should have just left it as all access takeout takeout. Cbs takeup out. These brands had to get away from. Cbs's brand yarn. but i think the main issue is. Cbs wasn't the all access although al access also entertainment show news show. So there's that issue when you're googling seo and so the the plus implies that there's more so it's like there's like an unstated thing that comes after it someplace you're paying for it. I'm calling in twenty twenty two. They're going to switch to like dot dot dot is gonna be. Hbo lips lives. This is actually a great. That would be fine. Just pick one and just all use it. Wh- so here's my larger questions netflix's like a very good app. Great app like they clearly have hired software developers and designers and product managers importantly they appear to have hired user testers. Most of the other apps are very bad. Like just down the line. Peacock too is not doesn't support rewinding invest forty on my apple tv. I don't know if that's true for everybody but in this house we don't rewind be can't do just can't be done with remote. We own one of the fact that the peacock the bird is unable to physically walk backwards. So it's a metaphor to recreate that. Recreate that classic. Tv experienced before. Watch the office like they did back in the day. I've tried opening the remote app on my phone. We've switched like just every way we can. I would like to fast forward ten minutes and we just can't it. Seems like somebody would have caught. Walt mossberg is constantly tweeting that the app crashes on his ipad. Yeah it's stores like he. He's like firing bug reports into the ether. But i think i have to disclose the nbc comcast which investor and rocks. I promise you pay me to trach. Peacock on hbo. Max just pure mess. Which is just the messier app. It's so upsetting because it's the best remain service like in terms of content. It's got the best tv shows and movies and it just does not work as an app and if you're streaming service doesn't work it's not a service it's a problem in the it's impossible to find things and they made a big deal about wonder woman in four k and like kinda didn't work like you had to watch ten to fifteen minutes of one woman in like three sixty p and then maybe it would like buffer up like just a bad app experience. If it makes you feel better. Neil i wonder in nineteen eighty-four just doesn't work in general's film. Roy is one of the worst movies like but now she's a kitty like what so confusing. My sister had like an all too long exchange about whether cheetahs apex predators. After that move like. That's what we're like. This is the problem we've decided to solve today but it's like a bad app. I don't trust that viacom is going to deliver a good software experience. I just don't know. I don't trust either. I mean i the one the one app that i keep coming back to you over and over again because owned by one of the wealthiest companies in the world is amazon. Prime video is by far the worst experience i've ever had in my life. Anything like trying to do anything on amazon. Prime video is terrible and talking to sources who are like just. Don't care like amazon. Prime video exists. Because if you buy food like i'm going to watch a thing you're gonna watch thing but it's a netflix. Takes the idea and the steelers slot in there kind of corporate speak. Whenever they talked about it they liked the fact that they have. They're headquartered both in los angeles and silicon valley. That's a whole thing for them where they're like. We think a lot about our product and we think a lot about our content and how we can mellon the two others don't like disney bought bam tech and was like we're done here and it's a whole issue Who lose had issues for a while and disney's like seemingly not invested in who taught it's bizarre and again like the people are gonna stay on your app if they if things are being recommended to them and make sense to them and they are having an easy time with it and they enjoy using if not. There's way there's more than enough services people go and find something else. But we've just always talked about right there. The cycle here feels. Like all these companies were wholesalers to cable companies so the cable companies by the content they would own the interface that is obviously blowing up with cord cutting now. They're all making their own apps and of actually paying roku to be on their box but at some point aren't they all gonna realize like oh. We suck it making this app. This app is holding people back from paying for our content because they cannot fast forward. There will be two things that happen. One is that they realize it's A the entertainment companies that are figuring out how to exist in a tech oriented space or going to realize harder than it looks Going to give them a book big appreciation for other companies. That do it well. And the other thing is that they're going to realize that the recurring revenue they're bringing in monthly subscriptions or the advertise or the additional. Add money. They're kind of getting through targeted. Ads is not what they expected it to be. And they can make way more money licensing their ip and then you get and then that will lead to a few big players who will come in and grab it and be like well. Netflix doesn't need to buy anymore products out so it's just going to keep buying. Ip mean third co-ceo hits. Randall said that this week disney can come in because there will be fine will come in and product stuff. That makes it better for them. Same with you know apple amazon can come in and be like well. We want to run better. We can by someone. Has the better technology for your actually amazon fire amazon. Prime video works better on amazon. Fire tv than it doesn't any of the the amazon t apps on their native platform. It's actually just a little bit better but you're right. It's why no. I don't know i'm watching orphan black and it took it took the applic- a week to figure out that i wasn't on season eight that i was on season to open. Spoilers move the thing the reason. I really wanna talk to julius after paramount pluses now launching. We're done for a minute right like we. No more new services like roku by qube stuff like like the stage has been set like we know who the players are now right a redone. Guess and i think we're done. I think we're done with the major players. The people were. I mean if you're going to get into it now you're way too late like we were saying mean two years ago you're saying disney's late it right now and they were. They were kind of late and they came to it and they've figured it out very well. Congrats stalled them. So i think in terms of are you going to see a major american conglomerate. Come out and be like we're launching a streaming service. No are you going to see a bunch of consolidation within the next three four years one hundred percent and is that going to change products. Is that gonna lead to total revamps. Zach me to potentially getting rid of streaming services and and launching them into something else. Guess like. I think that's what's going to happen way. More and more importantly i think in countries where they can't expand into you'll we'll hear more about disney partnering. Perhaps maybe with a chinese company to get some form of disney plus into china. And then that's kind of a whole new thing which gets into interesting territories for me. When i like to vowed in terms of like furry us-based audience specifically are you going to have to are there other services you're going to have to be like got to pay attention to this probably not expect anything to go ninety so much as we should expect things to be absorbed. What what is that on the go ninety scale. I don't like how that works just ninety ninety if you are no longer running your service and now you work for apple you on ninety. A lot of them are taking bets that their brand is a will resonate paramount. and like. Yeah you can say that teens really want a making of the godfather movie. Be sure but i bet you if you ask them if they want that and you know or like young adults people who have money to spend or watching a lot of things if they want to watch that or a second season of bridgier ten or the mandalorian they're gonna go elsewhere but a lot of them are expecting that because they have a kind of brand that makes sense they can launch these streaming services whether they're ad-supported or not And they will see the recurring revenue that others are. Just don't think that's true. There will be three or four. That are fine. My bet is personally that all access Hbo max disney's athletes are fine. Amazon and apple are in different boat. Because they're they're they have streaming services but they're not the main product like they're doing their own thing and they've got like a trillion dollar suit doesn't matter we can just keep spending and then the other ones. I think you'll start seeing them figure. Go back to licensing stuff and they'll kind of be like we're gonna solve our stuff ops. It makes us more money. We haven't talked about apple's service which isn't really a service just like it feels like some shows you can buy the trope on the apple. Tv late extended the free trial for like another six months again. Which goes to show the confidence interface. It's what we use is what we have just one of the most upside down. It's getting the core ideas they had for. That box are getting farther and farther away from reality. they need to figure that out. Especially if like you sean. Tv on youtube tv because the apple tv does not. It does not want to acknowledge the tube. Tv exists now. Just spend the eighty bucks or whatever it is and just by crumb chromecast google tv. Just just like try it. It's so good it's it's the best one and it's pink so you want me to impulsively biologic the has real buttons and if if you hate it then you've like you still just have a good chromecast. That does four k has tv and you haven't lost one of you know One of the older married man. Now if you're gonna mess with that tv interface you're taking you're taking whole family dynamic into your hands. You gotta be very careful too much better though. The physical buttons are like what sold before me on this lake. 'cause like so many times i've fallen asleep on an apple. Tv remote and then it's just in chaos. It's just so sensitive. But the the beer i going to happen. Which is super interesting. Is now that the the apple window is almost nonexistent. Linda period of exclusively movie had to plan theater End up anywhere. We're going to see a lot of changes happening. Restroom services like for example. I think so chris. Christie is currently very unhappy with warnermedia at warner brothers. And he's looking to leave and dues movie somewhere else. Which is very big news. And if i was apple. And i had the money to finance his movies and kind of gives him what he wanted to play and then be the exclusive digital home to christopher nolan movies. Like that's not a bad bet. If i'm apple and i think we're going to start to see a lot more of that type of stuff you'll see networks of swing in netflix's finally realized like hey if everyone's getting this shortened window deal. We're more than happy to put movies in theaters like for three weeks. That's fine and then now. They are a big plant in the theatrical space. Like that's gonna be a really interesting kind of change in shift and we'll see more movies premiere simultaneously on streaming services as they do in theaters around the world. And it'll be fun. It'll be fun to see how people respond to that. 'cause theaters are not gonna die. But i think now there's it's there. There's no going back from the snowman. It's like people want options if apple gets exclusivity to nolan films. I just want to be in the room. When the home engineers are forced to sit with him and tune the audio to his movies. I want to sit in the room. And they have the fight over. Whether it's going to have atmos or not because nolan nolan famously. Won't use at most but he won't use it because he's like. I need the sound mix to be perfect and then you like his movies and it's like no one can understand as christopher nolan intended. You can't tell if the dialogue is bad if you can't hear it i think if you're appaling entire brand is we create things for artists to create which every commercial reminds me what they're supposed to do lake being the home of talent that require very expensive movies like martin score. Says he like chris for nolan. Who needle on of money. At a time when studios are like the paramount's like. I don't know if i can afford to make nolan movie. And then not have guaranteed like notes. Why disney's making a bunch of marble movie. It's like pretty sure. We're guaranteed roi. It's fine you go to a place like a net flicks. An apple or amazon. Who are like fine. We don't care it's like it's we just want talent and i think that's going to be an interesting shift when things move away from warner and paramount so between extent also use. I watched tenant with captions putting that in putting that energy out in the world. But like when you when i sat down i was like okay. Cinema experience light up that it light up the home. We're doing it in like five minutes. And i was like that's great all right. We've gone way too long. I just want to call at one story. It's called visit from. Zun squad julia. I think that was your headline. Now that was kevin's headline lewinsky is a freelancer. Wrote for us. About the extremely hard core community of diehard soon fans who still use and listen to those ends. If you're rich fan the stories was made for you very very happy to keep the injury live and i will tell you that joanna. Stern is so mad at us that she's not in zun story. Turns out diehard soon fan stern. She's like texting texting she's tweeting. It didn't include this this and this or i'm done. This is a one time thing zuni. Hd is great and. I'm still mad that someone robbed might soon collection in college. Well if that person's out there that's the personal essay follow. We need on the verge. I want that's her time. Free all right. You can tweet at us. We love hearing from. You is back on heim berg surely it loudmouth julia reckless tweet us wanna hear from you decoder. This week was adamantly from instagram. We gotta come up. Work has roundly who i didn't. Astronauts acknowledged asked him at the business of being a tour. So that's coming up on decoder very soon That's next week with more version. It's a whole new day in america but we're also so very much shows like the same day in america but it's a new day in america. That's where wear masks gene. Therapy is really confirmation or today crisper for breakfast brought to you by novartis the future anymore. This is a global health care company. That's reimagining medicine. Just the tip of the iceberg crisper. It does sound a lot like a breakfast cereal. But what is it really think about it. As a pair of programmable molecular scissors can cut anywhere we target susan stevenson heads up the cell and gene therapy initiative at the novartis institutes for biomedical research. So how did crisper getting your breakfast. When crisper was observed by researchers in the early two thousands it was heralded as a miracle cure for yoga. That's right. Yogurt is basically made from bacteria which can get viruses. Just like you. And i can't food. Scientists discovered this strange repetitive. Dna sequence in the genome of certain strains of bacteria that are used in dairy production turns out it was actually an immune system enabling the bacteria to fight off viruses by cutting their dna into bits so the researchers turned crisper into a technology using it to vaccinate yogurt and cheese against infection one giant step for the dairy industry not to earth shattering for anyone else until scientists outside of the dairy world started asking from cutting the dna of viruses. Kennedy's also do something else. Dominic hefner is the director of genomic science and novartis institutes for biomedical research. Scientists are now using crisper on human cells in labs around the world in the hands of the scientists weakest parts of the crisper machinery to cups. Dini in desirable places to alter genetic code of cells team is using crisper to study the roots of the disease. Other groups are designing crisper based technologies to treat disease. Currently the most promising applications are so-called Diseases so diseases which are really caused. by one. Zero in genome in other words crisper is ideal for treating diseases caused by a mutation in a single johnson. Diseases like huntington's disease parkinson's disease muscular dystrophy that inherited retinopathy unders. Many others crisper it. Turns out may enable researchers to carefully snip. Dna and fix broken cells at the genetic level. Susan stevenson and her colleagues at novartis are developing a crisper based therapy for sickle cell disease. That's genetic condition that affects the shape and function of the bodies. Red blood cells leading to pain crises. In significantly reducing life expectancy the food and drug administration has approved plans for a clinical trial of the experimental therapy. Retake the patient's own cells. We delivered the components of the crisper system into stem cells. And then we reinfusing. Those gene modified stem cells back into the patient. The idea is that the repaired cells will then flourish and fill the patient's bloodstream. With healthy blood cells unlike traditional medicines this treatment targets the root cause of the disease at the molecular level. Crisper is just one of the technologies. That's powering cell and gene therapy and exciting new approach to treating disease. These treatments are designed to be given just once so one time therapies can result in a potentially lifelong cure just a single treatment for the first time scientists really have true in their hands that allows him to dream and think of potentially being able to really correct on the line cause of disease so despite its humble origins in your breakfast bowl. This revolutionary technology has huge potential and for dominic heppner. Crisper is more than just another tool in geneticist toolbox. It represents a huge leap forward in shared scientific knowledge. The story of crisper actually shows have pro scientific progress. I mean keep breaks from happens when experts of different fields combine know-how and only when gifted bacteriologist and mammalian cell biologists. Salt work side by side. The truth attentional of this discovery was realized from more information on how novartis's reimagining medicine go to novartis dot com slash cell gene.

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Galaxy Z Flip review, CBS streaming service revamp plans, and Android 11 features so far

The Vergecast

1:26:43 hr | 1 year ago

Galaxy Z Flip review, CBS streaming service revamp plans, and Android 11 features so far

"This week on the verge hostetter review the galaxy flipped. We talk about the state of folding phones. Julia Alexander joins US talk about the streaming wars deep on android eleven which is out earlier than ever and we talk a little bit about apple may be letting you set default. Apps on the IPHONE. That's the first cast tone up in verse. Cast flagship podcast. But why would say questionably source abouts? We'll get into get into it. I'm your friend Eli is here. Hello Hello Howdy. Hi Paul Miller's here hello and I've exciting news Julia Alexander is GonNa join us for the second segment to talk about my favorite the streaming wars. Love love him or hate him. GotTa Love Them Love them hate him. Your prices are going up. That's what I know the streaming wars but Julian has more by that anybody. There's a lot going on excited to have her on. Let's let's do it or do you want to tell the story of our weekend so You may or may not have heard that The Samsung Galaxy Z. Flip folding phone is available put available in quotes because so far as I can tell when it went on sale on Friday It was there like three per spy. And there's four Samsung experience stores in America. And the one that I called. That's local to me in Palo. Alto said that they were getting fewer than ten so it sold out immediately. Who knows how many they actually produce but sold out immediately sprint stores were sold out eighteen stores or sold out By the decks today everything was gone. It was a real struggle. I got a twenty four hour a loner from Samsung which is interesting period of time to give a review unit out for I also bought one from best buy and then best buy. We'll ship it to you by Saturday. And then they just kidding best buy. Yeah Yeah So. I spent all day Saturday literally calling around the entire country to various random best buys. At and T. stores and Sprint stores trying to find one and we were reaching out to friends family an ex ex coworkers. Shout out to MICA. Yeah Mike Singleton makes her. There was somebody in the city that could go buy it for us I eventually did manage to acquire one D- robbed and influence yet. I have one It it unfortunately. It was like the Korean version of one So but it's basically the same however the one that I've actually reviewed best buy did come through And so I actually have to. Now I have a I have one from Korea and one for it was designed for America. Even if it's not a lot of demand or not a lot of absolute units you know People WanNa win the sprint. Stores are selling it when people. I'm GONNA take the sprint one folds but sprint. I'm going with my version of story is that I was I was home this weekend Just just a flurry of text messages. I think this phone what's going on this phone. I hate the phone. I'm going to buy a phone. Can I how much money we spend on the phone? I'm flying to La like diener. Don't fight L. A. Call Mike is like what if I go to L. A? Anyway I want to go to L. A. I think there's one in Irvine for a little bit of context. Twenty four hours is not the typical amount of time that you spend with the phone when you are reviewing it so that had that and I had to give it back after twenty four hours so I needed to purchase one so I could do a review because I'm not going to review a phone based on twenty four hours with so I. WanNa talk about that in particular. I will say it's like it's becoming a recurring theme in our lives The idea that will just release it right. We'll do and I don't mean to like throw any shade it influencers because we obviously cover them. I think it is a vibrant new economy. It's like holding kind of business. It's all happening over there. is very interesting. But you see this happen a lot. They buy influence or marketing campaigns. So Motorola Razor. You can pick. The Razor. Motorola holds a razor watch event. Lot of influencers. Some tech people not a lot of journalists. They don't want the scrutiny right. And then they say you're not getting your of unit or getting this very short review period and then things sale right and to me. It is an absolute and. I'm curious for your take on the because you're doing more stuff than me but to me. That is just an absolute signal. The products broken. If you do not trust reviewer to hold the thing for a week use it. Ask questions about it. Answer the questions about it. And then write a thorough review of the product. It means you're product cannot withstand the scrutiny and it is just borne out every single time. Is that every single time. It's every single time when you think that might be going. But there are cases where companies like we just want to get this thing out really quickly Or they're like they're very confident and so they will. Just you know apple will have reviews. Go Up on the same day as saying like preorder day in some cases or like before after priorities happen. Samsung does similar things They will. They'll put it out with no embargo or the put it out. Basically the days released and sometimes that means like what it means. It's movies where if the critics don't get to look at the thing before it shows up in theaters. That's a sign and sometimes it just it's like actually a genuine sign of confidence and you kind of just have to have a gut feel for like a what game is being played with this particular phone released from time to time. Yes you're right. A more charitable than me to play devil's advocate a little bit because I typically agree with this is typically assigned it might it could very well suck but the this flip phone thing is almost as much a fashion accessory as is a piece of technology. You know what I mean. It's like a dream of the tech industry. Yeah so they're living in their dreams but like you know we Have to work. Sure sure hopefully not break. Theoretically and I would argue in a debatable across a number of metrics but like most people gaze of the fashion industry. And I Alex Weird. I want my clothes to be functional as well like right like there's an element of this. Where even that industry has to like? You can't sell a ten thousand dollar person. Hold anything it's like it's going to do. Its job right but so talk about fashion like brings to mind my my number one complaint with the way that these full phones are getting released. And that's these companies aren't setting the context correctly and this might get into the fact that over the weekend. There was a bunch of drama About the galaxies e flip specifically sack over jarring. Everything did what he does with every single phone. He scratched it which is what he does like it is. It is a thousand percent predictable if you make a phone. That's notable at all. Jerry rig everything is going to take it and it's gonNA use as little hardest most picks on it and see where it scratches. So he did that. Because that's what he does and guess what the screen scratches like really really easily like just inventing it with your finger. Nail could do it. I tried that at the launch event. Didn't really see it but on the review units in that video like once you actually get on it. Yes you can you can do. It feels firmer than other plastic screens. But you can scratch your fingernail and so there's like what the Hell And the thing that gets me is that outcome was completely predictable instead of waiting until it happens and then reacting and be like. Oh yeah by the way. We have a premier program was screened replacements. And you can a screen protector installed for you professionally you break. I fix that all that happened. After the fact they could have just lead with it and they just release these phones in the context of I think the the way I put it as it should be somewhere in between like a sneaker drop and Google glass treat them like high fashion experiments that are limited edition limited run so that nobody runs into this thing. Looks at this thing. It talks about this thing with the expectation that You know anybody who's going to buy it really. That's how I look at it but These phones get released as though they're just regular old phones and so instead of saying look at this weird special edition thing. Let's see what it's like. Maybe someday it will become real. We have to say. Look at this film that you shouldn't buy that. They claim as normal. But it's not and so now. Don't buy it but we're look at anyway because if it were a special edition phone that you wouldn't buy it tells us something about the future of the industry like you have to go through this whole convoluted mess. Nobody does that. Because why would you? Because it's a huge pain. Yeah again I just think you're you're as as a traditional being far more charitable than me I would say that's our dynamic here. The they didn't do because they don't want to like these are choices. They're not mistakes. Samsung employees most of Korea in the service of marketing or phones right like the like tens of thousands of people work at Samsung on marketing. The phones in every country that they're going to put out of agencies upon agencies working on the stuff there are millions of dollars and lots of hours and lots of smart people working on how to launch every single phone. They put out and then on top of that. There are the carrier partners who have the same marketing sales distribution strategies to manage as well. That is not a small project that is not one person. It is massive machine and when the machine works they launched the s twenty right which we'll talk about next thing and that will be a perfect clockwork launch. They'll put up the phone. They'll be reviews. The camera will be greater. Knock it'll just it'll just be the thing that you expect. They will distribute millions of units over the course of the next year. They'll market those units like they'll just do it and you know exactly how that machine works want works did you that. It's a mistake or they did the overlook something or they didn't consider what you have described right and they just missed it. Just don't buy like I don't buy it like you have to believe that. They're dumb or they didn't spend all the money or all the brains aren't working all the ads. I don't see a lot of ads aggressively blockheads but most the ads are all of the ads. I've seen for Z. Flip show as a sort of a fashion thing like it. Looks like I might be seeing an ad for makeup or clothes but it turns out. It's for the Z. Flip yeah I mean. Look they've got a new hardware from factor. That's just like what apple did I always come back to the probably talked about the ipod. In how Steve Jobs and Tony. Fidel handled the ipod design over years. Like one year was big win. Era Small one year. It was fat when you're when you're buttons like the change the way it looked. They got to market an appearance over the functionality of the phone and I think so much a phones right now the function we take the functionality almost for granted like we review a a modern flagship smartphone. We are mostly talking about whether it can resolve a strand of hair at fifty feet or five right color. Temperature is accurate or not. We're not like does it run the APPS. Does this screen disintegrate into a thousand pieces if you touch it like that we take we take a bunch of phone stuff for granted? Dear to your point where no. We cannot take any of that stuff for granted with foldable. 's because we just don't know what they're like and so their marketing. I think they're marketing. It is though it's a regular from new form factor right. They're not they're not emphasizing the fact that like the form factor shift has caused a reset of everything else that you would expect and I think that's actually it's the evidence of the mistake though like if you just had some more money would get this cooler form factor that's an S. twenty but foot but like really you're not getting you're really not so the flip reviews should be up around the time that This podcast has posted. So I'll just say I actually think that the Z. Flip is it's the it's the best foldable phone with the best teams in the best feeling screen and so what because we don't know what counts as the right? The best cuts good yet. We're still figuring that out but I do think it after using it for about five days. It started to feel normal. It's not a normal phone but it starts to feel normal and a little bit boring. Which is where these phones should go so in that sense. It's like closer to what a folding phone should be than any other phone because I was able to start taking for granted just a little bit. however it's not an S. ten or twenty that folds in half because in order to get it to fit in order for space in order for price savings. Just just to make me sad. I don't know. They chose to put cameras sensors in it. That are just like not quite as good as it could have been. It's not quite up to like S. ten standards. It's better than the razor. Which is the lowest possible? But it's not quite where I hoped it would be. Yeah and I like the packaging. The phone like the entire feeling about a candy bar phone. The middle is like available for use. Would you put stuff there if you think about a folding phone like the middle of the candy bars that are you talking about the middle middle of the front like this podcast covering out your phone? Hold your phone in your see the middle of it dead middle of display. Where the where. The five is on the dial. Okay behind that is usually a battery. And yes right. Maybe some antennas sensor that's right tracking everywhere. You go talk about the core of the trunk. Space folding phone is like a bunch of moving parts into physically less space to package all this stuff in and I think that is again right. That's a huge tradeoff ours. Anyone talking about this tradeoff absent. How does how if you're holding? This is a little bit of a tangent but if you're holding Z. FLIP. And you're holding like an iphone eleven or Max or whatever like where is it like weight and thickness Chunk Chong Quiz? It's a it's about the same thickness when it's open. It's about the same weight. Maybe a little less than a Max. I haven't actually checked grams but it's about the same height. It's like the the Z. Flip is a tallboy. When it's opened up I'm so it's very very tall But it's a narrow At that height. So it's like twenty twenty two by nine or twenty one point nine. It's it's it's some very narrow aspect ratio which makes video sort of hilarious on it but it does make it feel like a pretty big screen because if you're holding it in portrait and scrolling you get just a ton of stuff on your screen So that's great And I don't even that unhappy about the thickness when it's closed it's slightly thicker than like to smartphones like sandwich together because it has a little bit of gap on the hinge But that's a trade off that like I fully understand because If I had a pocket that couldn't fit a big tall phone Then maybe a little thickness worth the tradeoffs. It's not sticking out of the back of my pocket or you know fitting bag or whatever but but when it's open that balance and that size and that wait feels very normal phone. Yeah so that's that's that's why I say that the Zepa approach is normal. Like I was able to take once you stop like saying all. Right is a hinge. Does it make like grinding noises. Christ is a screen sharp enough. I like protecting it from the elements. All of that stuff. Once you get rid of all that stuff then you're like oh the cameras not quite as good. It's like literally the review I'd rate of like one plus phone a year ago or two years ago. It's like Oh like this. Everything here is great but the cameras just not quite up to snuff right like and that's a that's a nice thing to be able to do to just be like. I'm GonNa just read this almost like a normal phone but of course that was only like the quarter of my review. Because I still had to talk about the hinge and then the glass and maybe we should briefly mentioned shot holster wrote a really excellent story. Detailing how the glassworks on flip. Sean has been working on this story. Since like the first time we saw the galaxy fold. Yeah he's been cranking away trying to find the suppliers talking to material science engineers. He works with the Verse Science. Like he's GonNa go read it and there's just this one one line it's a classic Sean Line. That's like the punchline storage anything folds of it's thin enough which is like it's just kind of a threat you so basically it. Is they call it all. Tra- thin glass in. It is very very thin. Glass Guess. Samsung display claims. That they make it. Samsung display separate from Samsung. But in fact it is It's a it's a group of companies that make this starting with a German company called shot and then there's like they make the glass and then like stuff happens to it and then Samsung display puts a layer of plastic on top of it to protect it. And that's what you can scratch then with your thumb and you know it's all there But it's it's just like it is in fact glass all the conspiracy theories that it glass for not true. But that just because it's glass doesn't mean that it's good okay. Glass that bins that. It's not rigid in reserve reason. Would Samsung announced this phone? Say We have a flexible glass like well. That's that's impossible but also that would be nice because I mean you'd have a hard surface. Yeah that you're interacting with their visit. It's flexible. It's not hard so it's flexible hard. It's just a it's very thin so if you get one crack in it. The crack instantly goes all the way through and the glass shatters or the crack ruins the structural integrity of it. So he has this really great photo. That's really obvious like imagine a piece of foam and you've been the piece of foam right and the top of the band is just abend. Now imagine you like put a scratch in the top of the for the in the top of the foam and then bend it like eventually that scratch grows it ruins the structural integrity of the glass. So the reason Sam had to put a plastic layer on top of the glass is a tiny nick. Some tiny whatever Could ruin the structural integrity glass when you bent it it would just shatter. Yeah so there's this. There's this line from last week we're talking about T. mobile and sprint. There's this line in the case. It's like dishes going to build a network that the lawyers can use and no one else can use and that is exactly how I feel about. This class is such a technicality. Yes it is a folding glasses play but the thing you touch plastic and it's like yeah it does feel firmer than the galaxy fold and the razor like it feels better. I just doesn't feel that much better. I mean either. You have spent more time. I feel like they were just like yes. It's better than the razor is as you have said like the lowest like it doesn't does it creek wiggins dying every doesn't creek but so they have tiny little bristles in the hinge mechanism to try and keep dust dirt out. And you can't hear it but if you like put it literally next to your ear you could hear the bristles a little bit but my God. It's the maximum extension. It's great sorry. Did you see what the Tagline is for Samsung? Ultra thin glass. They have a whole like thing that they're going to sell to other companies and they're very excited and there's like pr for it. And they have a they marketing tagline. Would you like to hear it? I would do nothing more. Samsung Ultra Thin Glass. Tough yet tender. That's bad tinder class. Just crying cowboy. Look what is okay. I get it. They did it in again. Reach Peace Corning has added shot. Is that like everyone understand? Prob the thing that is great about a big competitive markets. Lots of players. That's money everyone understands problem One can assume we. Are you know There are lots of smart people spending lots of money to solve this problem right now. We have is tough tender. The tough is presumably the plastic and the tender is the glass and I think that is maybe backwards. So yeah that's right. That's the bar like last week. We're talking about the razor. You know like I don't know how to measure stuff I feel like I'm not touching. Plastic is a is the thing to measure. Probably it's the older. No real solution like like manno machines that like reconfigure themselves as you're folding. Paulina vape over again. Our phones like our phones. That are good with hard screens. That ARE SCRATCH. Resistant are like they're they're like they're like pressurized. They're like bulletproof for their like helicopter. Windshield matere yeah. It's crazy stuff. I don't see how you could possibly get anywhere close to that with something that's flexible. I think that is one the problem to solve too. I think that's why you have not seen the corning's of the world like nonstop Like in the closed doors. Like that's great but you should. You should just wait a little bit. Yeah they've been doing that for a long time but corning is sort of like around there like floating around. Yeah Yeah you know. The thing is glass is just got dishes cornered issue. You're making class. It's flexible so if you just keep it real hot and that's the answer. Yeah the Apple. Folding has a button where it just gets real hot and that's like you feel it's going to be on stage with our proprietary heat. No I think. That's you've reviewed three of them. Now were figuring out just like what makes them good. I think that's like this is one of them right. This is just one of the marks to hit like does the screen scratch with your finger. Nail you probably shouldn't. That's it's probably mistake like we're we're validating the form factor but the technology is there. Would you say that's fair? That's fair yeah also. All three of them have broken within like like within the launch weekend they have in in ways that are Every every phone probably breaks in that way somewhere in the world when you launch a phone But with foldable. There's just like it seems like it's a higher percentage because few of them are sold and it's also like we're paying attention so Z. Flip cracked somewhere in the world Also easily scratched inputs. Motorola razor had like complete screen separation at the hinge ridiculous. Yeah they they just they all keep breaking. Yeah it sounds like neither the full or the sorry the flip or the razor have had the sort of same impression on you as the fold it as like. Oh this could be. This could transform my relationship with my phone is that that's exactly right. Yeah the The fact that smaller and can fit in a pocket is nice that you can have a big phone that fits in a small phone form factor when it's folded smallish Is Nice like but none of it? Fundamentally changes your relationship with your phone like I love being able to close the phone and like have it closed on the table like there's something psychological about that but it's nowhere near as big an impact as having a candy bar that turns into a tablet. Yeah SECRET TABLET. Like that this bonkers. Tcl Prototype. I don't understand how to take you. Try to describe it then. I'll try to fear. Here's okay. There's there's two images right that's all we've got this is a leaked. Tcl prototype so cancelled so there. This is how this is all. We've got one image shows the phone like a normal phone the other one shows it pulled out somehow and so my thinking. Is that the phone wraps around to the back of the screen wraps around to the back of the phone. And then when you pull pull it out it extends a now. It's all on the front. Does that does that make any sense like a like a garage door coming coming around. Not Not at all. Okay take three different screens. I think there's the outer screen. There's a little itty bitty baby screen and then you slide the outer. Screw the baby screen apart like a dining room table and that reveals a third screen underneath him though or maybe it's two screens and so like they they they sort of unfold underneath the other like sides it. It's like the accident curve. That's what I thought too anything. Think about it again. This is great radio in your car and hold your hand side by side and imagine a screen going over the top of both your hands inside one hand on the other right right the an s curve. Oh I'm not seeing. I don't think I think it's I think it's literally just to screen. What's I'm saying? Take take just slides and take your phone put a piece of paper on top of your phone and then wrap it around the phone and then if you slide that piece of paper across the surface more of the paper will be revealed what I worry about. Is it scale of our show? There there are like tens of people right now in their car with like throwing paper. Just look at the website and look at the picture. Tweeted us how you think this works because none of us have any idea. It's the prize of someone. Bails will become the TCL. Deeter will send them in a legal what it is. I'm not saying it'll be cool. I'm saying dear is going to find an illegal Flip PHONE UPRISING INCENTIVE. Like a fake se. Yeah all right ear last last Z. Flip Review Observation. What's what's your big takeaway. The little screen on the outside is is is just not good too small. Like it's it's fine for showing the time and that's it's a clock. Yeah Yeah here's what I'm telling you I'm again. I'm being charitable the neater if you see a product of this scale and it just arrives and it's fancy and there's a new technology in IT And they have not given it to reviewers It's probably broken. That's I'm just gonNA keep just keep hammering at that. I want to hear the testimony of a person who is all about looking cool and they got this vote and they feel like a up their game. That's what I want. I I'M NOT. I'm not saying that's for sure GONNA happen. I'm like I was already pretty cool. Person got this phone even cooler now. Yeah and then that person's it's on sprint. I only get this. We're taking a break. Come Back Julia Alexander's and talk about the streaming. Wars has has brought to you by net. Sweet what do companies like Ring Hint Intech owes in common? They all use net sweet to accelerate their growth. If you're going to grow faster you have to have the right tools where you're doing a million ten million or hundreds of millions revenues. Naturally by Oracle gives you the tools you need to accelerate your growth as we get a full picture of your business finance inventory. Hr customers and more all in one place right from your phone or computer. You have the visibility and control. You need to make the right decisions and grow with confidence. It's a reason that's customers. Grow faster than the S. and P. Five hundred three and that's where the world's number one cloud business system and why more than one thousand nine thousand companies trust them. Not Sweet business grows here especially your free product to a right now and receive your free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash verge. That's nuts dot com slash verge once again net sweet dot com slash purge. Hi I'm Ariel Jim. Ross and I'm the host of podcasts called reset reset is a podcast about the impact of technology how humans have shaped it and how technology reflects values and biopsies reset is also a podcast. About how much good tech has accomplished and how much better it could be if we listen to each other. Recently we've covered stories about how artificial intelligence is being used to track corona virus. We've also covered how to solve the problem of child predators on Gaming Sites. And why are night? Sky might soon be filled with thousands of new satellites. Subscribe to reset for free on apple. Podcasts spotify. Earn your favorite podcast APP later. Nerds Julia Alexander. Hello are embedded streaming. Wars correspond back from the frontline. Why ask come on? You're not going to happen. And then I'm looking like list of headlines and a lot of things have happened. Yeah so I just WANNA start with this one because last week we just yelled about T. mobile and sprint for a long time. The Sprint T. mobile deal is predicated on one. You believing the John Ledgers. The Shit you great. It's also predicated on to this is true. That's our nation's judiciary is said to that dish network will build a five G. Network from scratch using a bunch of special. Have Okay sure. Maybe not this week. I'm looking at dish. Network's earnings Indus chairman. Charlie Ergen is like we're GONNA have to merge with direct TV which. I just want to remind everybody is currently owned by. At and T. It's like they're just like personally like he knows I'm looking at it and he's GonNa ruin that guy's just explain to me what is going on because it seems that the pace of cord cutting is like faster than ever it's happening. We're watching the sort of like t the classic TV streaming providers like the TV's not succeeding. Yeah it just seems like that's falling apart faster than anybody expected. What's going on specifically with direct TV? What is knocking out with direct TV? I mean the funny thing just to add to how insane this whole deal is is that direct TV An eighteen like basically. At and T.'s. Linear networks lost like three point one or three point two million pay TV subscribers and out of all TV there was only like five million loss. I mean so. There was a lot of people end. At and T. was most of it So dishes like we're going to merge with them we're fine. I mean there's a lot of things that are happening. I think dishes kind of realizing that they satellite is people are cutting satellite faster than most other things. They are dying kind of technology. If you WANNA use that word and they have to team up with someone the question is like why eighteen t would want it. They're trying to get. They're trying to get rid of their expenses. They have investors breathing down their backs going. These are dumb purchases. Why do you keep doing these things and Randall station? Not Investor. Also you have. I have no Pol-. At history suggests. But I'm also not so dishes. Thought is that they're going to get bought by eighteen. I thought soft. Yeah Yeah Yeah saying that dish would be buying direct. Tv Yeah sorry sorry way around. It's just it's ridiculous and I don't shot they're doing and the other part of it is sling. Tv Sling TV's in my own by dish. And they just re recorded their first subscriber losses And a quarter which is not happened before and they basically said it's increased competition in the space and the spaces are really interesting onto being right now because there is increased competition from like Youtube. Tv and who to be which saw increases but like playstation vue shut down At and T. TV now which was direct TV now lost a bunch of subscribers so there is competition but there's also a decline in competition a lot of ways is why getting quote point where people are choosing ecosystems. They want to be a part of your in the Hulu ecosystem with Disney. You're in the Google Youtube ecosystem with Youtube. Tv And people are just going there. Plus they're cheaper. Yeah the thing that SCI-FI US and they've unbundled their TV from their Internet snake. And just like you don't have to buy had triple player whenever from policies like bimal same and they're like what if you just buy TV live? There's like openly on the same screen. They're just like promoting youtube. Tv instead of on TV offering. Which I think is utterly bizarre for a cable company to do. Yeah but they're they're definitely pushing people towards by this kind of thing. Yeah I mean Youtube. Tv just Google just secured a new deal with Warner media like HBO and Cinemax are going to to be you can buy youtube. Tv also just became the first official distributor of Max which is like a cool thing for Warner 'cause that's what they really want to sell and we know there have been reports that youtube in specifically Google is interested in expanding the idea of selling additional TV subscriptions via Youtube TV Basically taking on Amazon. Which M on those channels and apple which has probably the best looking ecosystem And so it makes sense that Youtube is GonNa come in and go. Listen we can offer a cheaper price for subscribers people are signing up they've inc there's reports that in two thousand nineteen. They had one million paid subs now by a Google CEO. Singapore guy said now they have more than two million they're growing at a pace which is impressive And so I think what we're seeing a lot of with the sling. Tv stuff with the at and T. TV now stuff is people going. I don't WANNA pay sixty five dollars to be on this on this or I don't think sling. Tv gives me enough. That I can go to YouTube. Tv Pay you know decent price and get a lot for my money. Yeah I have not actually even used to be of any use. It use it all the time. I'm in the place where I'm like subscribing not subscribing to it depending on like if I wanNA watch you know the Super Bowl or like award shows or like the democratic debates or whatever So I I. I'm like hopping on an office but I was just on it until they raise the price and I'm like I'm constantly subscribing on subscribing I every couple of months. I proceed to Youtube. Tv as the thing for live television each HBO. Max Aren't neigheth. Add THEM ON THEIR ADD ONS. Lakewood ems on those channels but Tho. Those are just per show. You're just watching. Shows both linear and on demand. So you'll have access to all the whatever game of thrones if you want to go back and watch it but also for accession fan comes Sunday night. You can watch succession live. Tv has traditional dvr. Stuff So it doesn't it doesn't have really on demand though So it doesn't really. I don't know for some reason. Maybe because I didn't grow up with the idea of trying to fuss with like here my shows I'm GonNa tell you it shows to record and then you'll record them and then I'll watch them before they run out. Run out and Blah Blah Blah. I just I. I have no patience for it. Maybe this is a little premature. But how am I GONNA. Watch the Olympics? Peacock Baby. Nbc Universal Whole Big Push. Is that going to be good for you? I just WanNa right here. Disclose versatile as an investor in Vox media parent company. It's fine don't love me my best. My best ever Olympics experience. I just built my own and I got a HD like a TV tuner capture card or my pc at. I just dvr twenty four seven Olympics. And I can watch them like Windows Media Center. It was just a wonderful wonderful time I've never really reach those heights because it's so difficult to currently have a Tibo edge review unit has a thousand six hundred club truck and feel better do anything and I have not yet recorded automatically just recording stuff and could because like all things it's an algorithm just like I'm doing stuff for you and I've never watched one thing off its. Dvr We wash it. We're using it for live TV. I recorded a lot of young and the restless back in college but the thing of saying which is also what I do Or in the case of like any awards. The grammys on. Cbs All access. You sign up for seven days. Then you unsubscribe the oath that who companies are realizing this who had a really great blog post for WHO TV that was like. We know you're not going to be here all year round. You just leave and come back when you really want be here. I think it's like a brilliant marketing move. Which is just. They understand how people are using. It's so easy to just cancel. And then go. Back cancelling go back that leaning into that and then Disney figuring out bundling options going down the line with like the TV aspect is like where they really succeed. 'cause they're like yeah? You have other places to go. You know it's funny If you pay for something In the nude. You don't pay for it anymore and you pay for it again. You actually have not subscribed to anything here just buying thing. It's bizarre that the mechanic is like I will now just like by this virtual. Dvd of the award show are like my poor editor. Jake who's one of the best centers of the verge. He has listened to me every award. Show complain about subscribing some network when I can just be like the the the wild that it's not on Youtube. They're not charging like five dollars a night. I kind of like a boxing match. A pay purview. So all this comes back around to the thing I'm constantly thinking about. Which is eventually it gets even more unbundled so the thing that has already happened is instead of subscribing to fire. Tv. I'm gonNA subscribe to Dizzy. Plus and maybe you. Tv to pick up all this live stuff and apple TV in suddenly. I'm just paying as much as I was paying for cable right. Keep unbundling announcing per show. I will spend five dollars in like I'm definitely gonNA spend more than cable right. Where does the sort of the value come back around? There's only a few that are going to be kind of your staples right. Netflix will remain a staple for at least a few more years because Netflix has a lot and they produce a lot. I think it took for Disney plus to come out for people realize how much puts out because they were like Oakland. Lorraine's done and now I have nothing to watch unless you kids in your kids watching finding Nemo every day. It's also clear to me that I'm paying way more for finding Nemo over the course of the year then if I just purchase finding Nemo Finding Nemo Twenty dollars Unlike any streaming Traditional movie platform. I'm just twelve dollars a month for like two minutes of the movie. Here's the thing with My friends though we this came up a lot. We had a screener season happens studios out. Screen Astra consideration and everyone I talked to was like I don't own a DVD. Or Blu Ray player. How am I going to play this? Don't they have like xbox and places I bought my playstation item by my brother? Bought me a playstation. And that's why I use that for but I only use it for Netflix Disney and HBO. Like I use it for anything else and I haven't bought a DVD to work record store we sold DVD's I haven't bought a DVD. In years. I think what it comes down to is like the more that people unbundled. They're just GONNA go back and forth every analysts. I talked to like you're just going to go back and forth. You'll have one or two that you keep most people right now. We'll keep netflixing. Disney plus the Disney plus. Offerings are pretty good and their interest. Kids especially Netflix is just staple the more expensive ones. Hbo Max is going to be fifteen dollars a month and you're GONNA get a lot out of it but really like. Are you spending fifteen dollars month for friends? Like and the Matrix. I don't know you don't really need especially when you can open up a google doc or Google drive and watch much of the stuff on. Tv conditioned window into Julia's contact inside edition. My Tick Tock Algorithm to tell me about how to cheat at school and how to steal movie but otherwise you what. He does a twenty different. Where you just like. It's always presented as a cool secret tip and and you go to this website. It's just like a regular domain name. You go that website and you can watch all anime. That's ever been made for free. Pay Them for it. It's like it's like nice files like not no. It's not the legit popcorn time or or or Netflix. But it's it's a web browser and it just the first forty minutes of the show on deeter stealing a phone still got to talk to Google. Google drive because that is another. It's a very hot tip on. Russell wanted us to blog about it and I was like. I'm not gonNA NARC. That's how I feel about. All of our plex covers the MIC. Flex like the best app ever got pitched on and they never wrote about egg. Forget about it but the best I got pitched on. Was this idea that you. It's basically Nintendo's family plan and you all you you've picked seven friends and each of your friends chooses something. Subscribe to and then the share that account and it's like who shares what who owns what. How many passer did you get onto this? Who streaming at right now. I think it's great also like just improve the bonds of your friendship that sort of collaboration. That's like a dollar wide. You perset episode. Push Button episode about this password. Sharing break up. It's very good. This is a question that the executives got asked quote. Probably the most aside from. Like how fast are you scaling? it's do you worry about password sharing and for the most part they've been like it's going to be an issue in about two years but we're not worried about right now if you're Disney and that flex you're like I don't give a crap really well. I think that's related to like this moment in the market that we're seeing the the thing that we started talking about which is the. What do you call the Youtube? Tv's world virtual their EMT. Media's God a great stand for virtual multi video platform distributor. Yeah so here's a problem you had in the old in the old days when Dish and direct TV revived company. Was You couldn't just call them. Cable companies because you have the two satellite. They made a new acronym. Mvp DIS multiple video. Platform you're talking about are things that have like channels. Yeah not just on demand episodes right but there's a difference between the eighties and then the V. NPD's which is like the virtual TV WHO TV THE AT and T. TV. Now if you can come up with a better word for this please just let us now. And hyper virtual. Yeah and we run inside of Youtube. Tv Anyway. So we're we're seeing a lot of those entered the market. Now they're consolidating. That's pretty normal. Course of right a bunch of new services. Enter the scene opportunity son and succeeds. They consolidate you see that churn but you're not worried about password sharing it because you're trying to share you get people to get your APP scale right so you just need whatever share it like. Give everybody the password. Utv account because they'll get the APP and then the day that we're like we've destroyed all of our competition and we're the we're the one of the two or three big players will start enforcing the password sharing rules and then we'll we'll make money. That's exactly I mean. I talked to this lawyer. Who represents a lot of the big companies in the where he kept using? He's like a very excited. Like you just kept going like you represent very big corporations But this is the thing where he's just like we're just waiting it out like Disney's waiting it out like they're like we know that we're fine. They've also I mean the big thing I've heard about this today the big thing that it's funny at CBS had investors. Call today. And there've been a few other investors calls in recent weeks and they're when it comes to international NBC Universal Warner Media and CBS early. Yeah we're thinking about it like we're we're definitely in that game and we're considering it but then on the other end of it. You have Amazon Netflix and Disney. And they're like we don't care about the. Us look like we want India and Brazil and Mexico and Germany and Japan. Like those are the ones we want. Which is why. Netflix IS INVESTING BILLIONS. And you know in in different regions now talking to someone today and he went is if you're not already there you're not going to compete with Amazon in two years because Amazon's GonNa Control everything and you're not gonNA compete with local streaming services like Netflix is trying to break into Indian. They're spending half a billion dollars this year to do so. And they're still like the fourth most watched service and the number one most watched streaming services called hot star and Disney bought them. They were just like we'll just take. It may compete with it. We'll just by you. Which is like the Google very very. I'm just going to buy what I can't have. You can't make like I have a successful product in the United States and now I'm going to take over the world with the has not always worked. That didn't work out for the rideshare companies necessarily right. Didn't work out for Groupon yeah I mean I think the those are all companies move atoms. Not Bits right. We're a big successful software company and we're just GonNa like find any market that we can address with like not necessarily zero marginal cost but pretty low marginal cost actors are atoms living in India. They do produce things right at this stuff. Polly would collection of molecules. Right but like the movies that you distribute on the sophist of those movies like need to spin it up in any place. Where like Uber was like now? We have to find another million Toyota Camrys and people to drive them a million new shows in India to produce right which they're going to me they're going to the big issue at Netflix. Faces is like Netflix. Ciza General Entertainment Company. Which is fine except what they're competing against people who carry sports And this is more of an issue national than it is here because the internationally bundle more often entertainment and sports For a cheaper price versus here if you WanNa get entertainment sports. You're paying like yeah fifty fifty dollars for Youtube. Tv or whatever And even then you're like still blocked out regional sports shoes so it's a whole complicated mess But internationally if they're spending and they're working with local talent and they can penetrate a market. That is like mobile focused by offering really cheap mobile plans. Which is what they're doing. There will probably grow. They're not growing as fast as they want. And like Reed Hastings. Who's the CEO of Netflix says? Address this but they are growing. They just released They released their ten K and they were kind of looked over a bunch of stuff. No we're fine like we're spending a lot but we do have prove That we're doing. Investors were analyst. Just raise they just did a fifty two week like their stock surge. So they can. They're fine the advantage. Disney has which they know and they kind of walk around like they know is that they're Disney and they're like don't ask Star Wars like no one has marvel Doesn't matter where we launched people are gonNA come to us. Disney is worldwide but your point about Disney plus. Not having quite enough stuff after that initial rush is very true. Are they going to start flooding? The the APP with new content or the Netflix says. Yeah I mean. They've address so I would think I keep yelling about like my mom. Could she'll be like Disney plus. It's kind of boring and I'm like let's in here. You understand Bob's brilliant audience of dozen Mr Talk to you know Li. They know they have to put up more stuff. That's why they spent a lot of time on their investors. Call like yes. We have to marvel shows Mandal Orien- and something else Another big show at the end of the year Disney plus Netflix. And they're not going to be Netflix. Chiming Netflix Disney. The best way to think of their output. Hbo Not that in terms of content by any means but HBO usually has one to two big shows. A quarter like they have one or two and they just kind of overlap. Eventually Disney's GONNA end up. Doing Disney is like undergoing changes right now on the plus side where they're just basically from my understanding going to give slots to the studio heads and basically be like Kevin Feige Marvel you got three slots. Kathleen Kennedy at Star Wars. You get two slots and the throughout the year. They'll new shows that come in And just kind of overlap. Each other beautifully if it works out for them in the way that HBO does. Hbo went from being like they had a good year. Game of thrones euphoria. Successions didn't cancel for nine months. Really look like there's enough here that I will keep subscribing. They've literally shipped their org chart in his APP like each one of those boxes is like a powerful sub. Ceo Inside of Disney. I have this in in the NAT. Go Person Who's like that we still for. Here's my time I have this. Org Chart Leg hand-drawn notebook. It's yes I mean. They figured it out in the way that like their heads of their heads tend to be visionaries Lucasfilm is going through changes. Lucasfilm has had a good time but You know like Bob's big son. Kevin Foggy like is well. That's what he is producing enough that they're pretty confident. Baba's Bob Iger. This is the third time you've referred to Bob. Without saying Disney in the most powerful man in entertainment or as we know him. Bob Bob too many bugs in Showbiz. Yes but so. You're saying five years like he's he's winning in that zone right yeah. He's figured I mean they're going to loop in their shows and movies pretty heavily so they're gonNA go like okay. There's a scene that happens doctor strange and to really understand it. You have to watch one division right. Like that's their whole play. Which by the way is the same thing? That marvel comics tried to do in the nineties. Nearly bankroll what's different about this and then the marvel. Tv shows on Netflix. Not So long ago. Well so this I mean this gets into like petty drama that I could write a book about but Jeff Loeb who ended up marble entertainment. So you like separate Kevin Feige. Who's doing really well for people who weren't doing super well so Jeff Lobe. Got TV cable TV And they were fine with. They didn't care. Netflix was paying a lot of money. Really need do you want. We don't care. They're not part of our cinematic universe. Then they're like we're into Disney. Plus this really matters to us. We're quality quantity. So they were like can't deal with the guy who makes really bad. Tv SHOWS WE'RE GONNA launch this new marble enter Tv entertainment landscape that rolls in tomorrow studios therefore Kevin Overseas it. Does that mean that the Netflix shows are noncanonical? Yeah I mean like you could argue. I mean they tried to talk to episode for the Punisher. Punisher takes a long while. I've punished too many people as a nap shots. I think the rules should be if it's good. It's candidate if it's bad it's not that should be the whole rule. That's fine bring it back to the business side of things it's like. That's their whole goal is to eventually you're just going to be like. I'm so trapped in like it's just going to be a whole thing. They're not GonNa do that as much. I think. It's just GonNa be more of like we want people to keep us money. We want you to keep their Disney and we know that if we tease enough of this that they will return. It's what they do agents with with network. Tv like this post super bowl thing used to be like If you know like those his ABC moment they're like agents shields going to tie into this new avengers movie. Catch it after the Super Bowl. Then it's like it increased ratings. Abc UP AN AC mail. Those are reading so deeply cynical and every day and I'm like Oh good for you. Cbs CBS they write the your head on was at an early lead. They blew it. They're gonNA restart their streaming service to we call the I. This is the greatest thing in the world to be. I literally have not been talking about this all day. They're calling this house of brands. Keep referring to his house of brands. And then that's actually the name of the streaming service. I have no idea the house of Ranson speaking discount chief cigarettes just GonNa say on the investors called Keping like MTV. That's a brand just like in two thousand twenty the so basically the 'til Dr is that When VIACOM IN CBS? Split up once they got divorced. Two thousand six. Everyone was very sad. But I mean me. Cbs lost a lot of content. And when they so fast forward to two thousand fourteen. Cbs like the streaming thing seems to be where people are headed. Netflix doing okay So we're going to launch. Cbs All access. Which I believe officially launched in two thousand fifteen at the time. They didn't really have any competitor's besides Netflixing Hulu like that was basically it but they had a really Jenky service like the service was terrible. You couldn't use it. I remember when they're first star. Trek show came out. People were like I can't watch the show the offerings of like the library catalog. For some reason we're very good And it just wasn't like there was there was really no incentive to do it and so it was like I've I've a source like estimates there probably at about five and a half million subscribers total right now which is five years after five years which is like close to sexually insane low number fast forward to last year. Cbs Viacom Fall Back in love married. I mean it's clear that was like literally a succession draw personal drama. There was rumors the CEO. Who is in secret like it was nuts? But they're back together now there listen. There was a wedding. Could turn their back together. And they're like streaming really. Take off any more about this. So we're going to rebrand all access with Viacom brands. So this is nickelodeon. It's comedy central Mtv All these kinds of All of which have their own streaming services by the way their own individual streaming service that you can get via Amazon channels. Yes they're like. We have to rebrand this because this is our new big thing. So they're offering from what we understand. A new version of the service called Hustle Brands. I caught I hope so. Called House of brands is referring to it. Right now That is also going to somehow include sports in news in like a weird premium tier if I sound confused because every source analysts like this morning I asked them if they understood it and they said like I have no idea what. Cbs just announced so CBS CBS. And Viacom were split. Yeah they were owned by the redstone. Yes the actual holding company was called national amusements which is great because it started as a movie theater chain shouldn't they call the streaming service? National Amusements. They've got their house of brands. They're calling it house of brands which is close to house of mouse looking all the way back home. This is what I do not like their whole thing. There's no pricing for it. They'RE GONNA soft launch at this year. no idea. This is the best part time you think of streaming stuff you'd think of exclusivity we're just talking. How Disney's playing their game Netflix originals. Were exclusives all these types of things. Cvs Dot doing this. Cbs is like it. Costs a lot of minor extreme service. We're GONNA make these huge deals we're gonNA license so South Park when they're big connie central. Hbo Max Exclusive Spongebob. Net flicks is getting a spin off. And they're gonNA bunch of shows and the way that they're thinking of streaming Baalbek their CEO. Another Bob He he's referring to these as rentals. He's like we rent them out We get the IP back and if they do really well hopefully people come back to CBS. Which is not going to happen. But that's like we were back. That doesn't happen. People will just stay on the service they find something else. This has been Netflix. This whole thing like we still have other shows. People stayed around So their whole goal is to bring people in with their content but then license Olaudah that content in order to pay for things. I'm very excited about this. I do I just like this idea that they are actually trying to make money. There's a lot of these are like we will crush our competition by spending seven hundred. We'll make it up on the back end. Cbs's like let's be profitable. It's a weird boy bizarre that that's the riskier strategy. Every actually so like everybody. I spoke to A lot of who consult with these companies are like the issue is CBS. They have never been able to take the risk like they've never actually said yeah. We're all in if you compare to other people said anything about this because it's a recent podcast. I was listening to us. Listening to Eiger on Bill Simmons and he was talking about ESPN and he's like pin is like fine. They're like doing fine. We're really happy with it but ESPN plus is where we're going to put a lot of stuff we're going to figure out rights issues. We're GONNA figure international stuff we're going to really bring. Espn plus up because people are cutting the cord and Adam Silvera who's the NBA. Commissioner? Just talked about that. I believe this week where he was like the NBA. Every league is like losing viewers because people are just not subscribing or they're doing a super bowl and it's going to subscribe to Youtube TV or whatever for the night and then watch it this way So they're trying to figure out ways to bring sports to court cutters but it's the it's the weirdest place to be and because of the regional rights and so they can't offer every game the way that doesn't go we we're GONNA give you every movie you two can't go or CBS can't go. We're going to give you every basketball game because it's like well you're going to be blocked out certain markets. Let's just how it works. Google drive comes through Google drive away so we ended here. Julius time thank you very much we will have. Julia are streaming wars correspondent report from the battlefield. Larry Hi. I'm just David Fox senior editor vulture and host of the podcast. Goodwin a podcast about jokes. Every week I interview comedian writer performer. About one of their jokes the joke income from their stand up special Saturday night live sketch or song or even a book. Re- breakdown joke and figure out how it works. What inspired it and what it says about their sense of humor for comedy fans. It's a serious discussion about the craft of jokes and for interview fans. It's really funny. Conversation between two people who have a lot to say about comedy profanities sect advice. Podcasts might not be exactly what you're looking for something to talk about after all that sex you're having new episodes of good one come on every Tuesday. Starting February. Twenty fifth. Subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. On your favorite podcast APP from vulture. Vox Media podcast network. Have a good one. Hi This is Matthew. Lacy is co-hosted reads the weeds. Podcast for people who love diving into the details behind the policies and ideas that help our lives. Every Tuesday and Friday I'm joined by Sarah Lynching hosted as reclined and a variety of other leading voices policy. Experts from around the country to dig into the weeds. Unimportant is recent recovered. The Democratic Debates. We had a deep conversation at the sudden rise in Semitism. Welcome Sarah Cliff from the New York. Times back to finally figure out how we can achieve universal healthcare. If you're the kind of person that likes to dive deep or you just want to keep up with current political landscape this show for you subscribe to the weeds for free right now in favour podcast APP to get new episodes automatically for box and the box media podcast In our time of need the stability that we need. There's a segment I do every week and it's called top ten. Lcd betrayals this is very relevant. My interest well see. That's what you think. That's okay so tiger is coming back with these these Lcd LCD in quotes. Because that's what bugs me about it. So the hand held games. They have controls. They've got a little screen. They look a little bit. Like a gameboy advance. It's hard to describe it. I'm sure everybody's experiences in their life the LCD technology in the sense that there's liquid crystal displays but it's not lcd in the sense that there is a a grid of pixels. Like a Gameboy has you know and so these days are always stupid and I hated and I feel like you know when I was a kid. I was pretty tech aware like I would go to the library and read all the computer magazines so I knew what. Lcd What Toys R. US and I see it. Lcd hand-held and and then discover that there's basically your character. In the game has like three different positions anyways tigers coming back with the the the remaking these there's sonic game x-men transformers so they've got all the big Ip but the Games are trash. And I feel like it just I get it. I mean it bugs me even like you know the game and watch guy that's similar concept seeing him in smash because I just think about these fake These real L. CDs. That are just not. It's not a grid of pixels it's not gonNA happen. You are super wrong all of these and I always say that because I'm old enough that I had some of these games and I had the there was one that was a no name game that was like the Olympics. And you're like running on hurdles and had three flat buttons instead of just punching him. You run your fingers over to go really really fast. Wore that thing out. Yeah you're right. These games trash the the these liquid crystals were like in American homes before like LCD displays you know and love them now So like there's a little bit of stellar that's worthwhile it's been like a nostalgia week because they also Brought back super soaker. They remade the super soaker their way worse than the originals intrigue way better than their safer. I'm sure in various ways dangerous. If you the pump on the originals you could lose your pinkie finger. If you're doing it wrong like there was like not a whole lot of clearance. They're super sucker one hundred. I don't know call. I remember. We would like diets the water so that you'd square people look like completely off the rails android eleven all right most. Are we talking about Apple? I android I There's maybe more for android. We could do. Actually no that's that's not true. We can we can knock android out entered eleven. They released the developer preview earlier than ever. You can't just go install like a Beta you gotta flash it and it's mostly developer facing stuff But the stuff that is facing a real humans is a chat heads. Bubbles are making a grand comeback There's this like conversation section which I actually initially got wrong announcement post where they basically taking a whole bunch of all your chats. And they're putting him in a separate area notifications they might actually finally do real screen recording natively thank. God and they also are going to have better sort of APP security permissions and the big one is scoped storage. Which means that just like on the iphone Android APPS aren't going to be able to just look at whatever they want on your story to They'll only be a look at their special section unless it gets special permission to look at like generalized storage. So in the same way that like I dunno on the iphone at like I need permission to look at this and the more ended up soft to do that in the same way that macos. Catalina is constantly asking you look at the desktop. That's coming for android there. You Go Anyway a bunch of developers are going to have to contend with that and Google's finally just stopping saying please update your APPs to support the stuff. They're just making them do it. Because security I guess because some of the the scope storage stuff was already an android ten right. It was entertainment. It was Andrew. Ten is like hey we gotta do this and a whole bunch android volkers went. Oh like okay. Okay. We'll we'll do it next year but like please please look at this and now they're like. Yo we're doing this. Why are they doing this through the play store? You can't issue update if you don't support this thing because they can't so it's it's this gets into like the wildly complicated territory of the difference between Version of Android a the API version of android and which API version your APP targets in addition to all of that there's a new complication in android. Eleven where you can target the newest and latest. Api IF YOU WANNA use the newest stuff you need to target that level of API like you WANNA use the cool new thing. Api twenty-seven you have to follow API twenty-seven rules right but sometimes like there's like features in it that are knowing whatever and so now they're letting you like dynamically opt in stuff in weird ways. You can opt inner opt out of certain parts of the API. It's just It's radically complicated is but I'm getting at well. I'm just saying apple puts out a new version of Iowa's everyone has to hop to do what apple apple because they'll just put it across the entire install base very quickly or if you want to target the newest and greatest phone which is where probably the spending customers are. They'll have it whatever you got to follow the rules. Dandruff has Greg Google. Broadly has android. It's while they complicated. Api situation has placed or approval process. Which another Leverett can pull. Yep Right and then it has placed services on the phone which is yet a third and it also has Ads If you want to use ads on your APP the Google on one of the bigger ad networks and they have different rules there as well including it especially for apps that are like for kids they now have the Google play subscription thing which is another layer of approval But the biggest complication of all. That's more important than any of this is. The vast majority of android phones are a couple of years old. You know they don't have the latest and greatest operating system and so there's literally no incentive for developers to like update to do things like get rid of the side drawer that interferes with the back button and the Pixel 'cause you know half a percent of users have this stuff and so it doesn't bother ninety nine point five percent of your users like where's the incentive to like put the effort into updated. I'm not calling developers lazy. I'm saying that they're following the incentives at the ecosystem offers them. You know. They're putting their time into other things that bring them more return. Sure Google has to do things like change. The incentive structure and one of those changes is like making scope storage or requirements Which is like well. Okay now if I if I don't do it my APP BREAK. And that's they're doing that in part because it's like a it's a privacy and security issue. Yeah but where is it a requirement like we're in that stack of things where they can issue requirements is it a requirement that is it's the API level if you WANNA target and you want to be and if you want your APP to work I believe on android eleven okay and I think that the game there is still the newest phones will run end? Eleven if you want to run in the newest phones you got to work with right right. Yep and then if you but you can you can target the API and have it still working like older versions of the US in some cases so wildly complicated. Yes What else standard eleven I mean that's the big stuff big consumer facing stuff. There's a you know you could go and look at like android police and nine to five Google. And they had just a blast of a day just finding all the features weren't technically announced earlier. A bunch of the features that weren't technically announced so so my favorites are Scrolling screen shots finally coming back Airplane Mode Turning Off Bluetooth. Which is not you know it's been that's been fine on IOS for awhile but they're doing it here How do you? How do you ship phone's headphone Jackson? Not have this man. They are going to let you maybe pin APPs to the share sheet Which is interesting. Because share. Sheet has always been a disaster on android. It's just always been bad. They tried to do a bunch of stuff like machine learning on it. It slowed it down and tried to roll that back. And so there's like screw it you can just like put the APP to you. Want there on your own machine learning. Yeah guess what you want but it turns out you already know and then they are updating the Bluetooth Stack for controlling Baluchis devices to A new thing that has the codename gobble door chef. Just tell to tell the story DARSHA GOBERNADOR. Show is the son of Swain his name is Swain forked beard and You know that's the son of King Herald which is The Bluetooth Bluetooth comes from. So it's like the successor to tooth forked beard. Yeah I don't get where gobble gobble doors is. The is the word forked beard. His Dad King. Harald got the nickname. Bluetooth right yeah king. Four to beard got the nickname. Gabolde door shut and he did not become a text entered so so those blue blouses. Give me way better now. Yeah sounds like they're doing a lot to do it. A Lot And this is not the main consumer facing stuff because they always wait for Google. I O for that but this is like the stuff that we've been able to Glean Yeah android police in ninety five Google developers. It seems like a lot of stuff is hold over from ten. They just push back. There's a bunch of holdover from ten so like we screen reporting recording was an early ten Betas and then it didn't arrive These bubbles same sort of thing there but not used them and the stoke scope storage and the other from ten is intended introduced permission changes for location where you could instead of having it be all or nothing you can do while using the APP. Now they're continuing to chase what the iphone does and you can grant like a one permission for location Just once and they're also extending that to I. Think like cameras and microphones and then on top of all of that. If an APP just keeps asking you every time you open it for location permission and you keep saying no eventually android will like figure that out and they will block the APP from asking you. Yeah that's pretty good. See That's interesting. I have a lot of APPS that asked me every time for some permission. And there's an option that you can say never ask again but I don't want click that because there might be a time when I do want a user interface design like classic problem. I don't know how how how I would recover that situation. Were I to want to. Whenever I screen shot these things like say the dialogue Texas battered misleading like a bunch of product managers and designers. Will tweet back in Mimi. Like we actually can't change to you. Want because in users will not push it because they think they can't recover right. So if the answer's no people are afraid of that now like what if I want it in the future? Yeah so it's all it's that's why it's always some like wacky tax. That's like I forbid you this time but please gently asked me. It's always like something like that. I think I think on Android it's deny or deny and don't ask again or I guess there's probably confirm yes. Hopefully I wish the only options were denying deny. Deny but. Let me recover. But that's a people talk about it all the time if you just show the hard. No people won't actually choose it. Yeah interesting I mean broadly. It just seems like Google's big problem here I mean this is your column is how are they? How are they going to get? I mean this is the android problem like we're we're many many versions and android and the problem is still. How do you move ecosystem to the new stuff right a you know? They're trying the they're doing now is they're they have nicer tools. Which is sometimes an incentive so Kotlin is a great programming language. That's modern and it's sort of in this generation swift And so that's great. People love that They So they've got that they've got this new thing. They called jet pack which is like instead of having fifty ways to do a thing that you want to do an android. There's like away and then you can just follow the standards. So they're improving the ease of coating android APPs but you know when they tried to get people to update their APPs for chrome os so that you can have windows. That could change size or tablets before that you know. It didn't didn't go super well because again. There's no incentive because how many people actually are you serving by putting all that working so at some point they just have to know. These are the rules. And that's what they're doing a little bit now with the android eleven talking about this Verizon Pixel drama for her five seconds. Andrew Police Published a story. That said Verizon wasn't going to carry the Pixel four or five and then they had to retract it because rise and said No. We're we continue to have a good relationship with Google. Yeah it's fine. We're fully Google on twenty twenty S. Put the fire drill the reason I felt like such a big story. is legitimate and no one really believes the pixel sells. Well Yeah right and you know. We're on the Pixel Five. When Rick Osterloh came and took over the hardware division a- Google consolidated everything. And I I talked to him. We all talk to sinn. Dr Anne like number. One eight series. What's your what's your time horizon. And they gave the answer that all tech people give when they don't really know they said. Oh five years in five years we want this to be big. And like we're we're coming up it's time and the. Pixel is you know. I'm I'm holding a Galaxy S. Twenty ultra in my hand and it's what six months newer the pixel give or take And it feels three months or three years ahead. You know like maybe two years ahead. It's the hardware quality and the Pixel. It's always been like it's had its charm and I actually am often charmed by the sort of aesthetic of the Pixel. I do actually like it. But fundamentally they're just like they are not keeping up with the flagships and Google needs to either do that or admit that they're not gonNA and Pursue a different strategy In the way that they did like and some of the some of the next year so they're like. Yeah Yeah. Samsung makes the expensive stuff. We make the stuff for everybody that is got pure Google software. They should if they did that with the Pixel and they just drop the prices across the board by you know two hundred fifty dollars. It'd be great. Yeah they're not doing that if they were just like the Pixel forays. The Pixel. Yeah Yeah Bigger Battery. But we think in ASP. Yeah bigger battery. I had anybody ever wanted. It's always they always put headphone Jack on the lower end phones. Samsung does it to with like the one of the light phones introduced. Cs Kazakhs contrained down. Maybe people what am I going to do with all this. Extra cash by a bunch of wired headphones. Let's talk about this whole thing for one sec because it's not a lot. There's no news yet. But Mark Gherman Bloomberg reports apple considers allowing APPs chrome G Melby set as Iowa's default. Why are they doing this? 'cause antitrust enforcement zo no it no it in my heart. Why do you think that Well they're getting. They're getting sued in Europe There's a bunch sabre-rattling and United States right there's like the FCC in DJ divvied up the tech companies there was just a hearing we're tiled in Sono right in front of Congress talking about it That committee is going to issue. Its its regulations and may tiles very unhappy about default APP settings. Like if if they're now talking about it they were so religious about it right. We cannot let you set male. We cannot let you said another apposite. Fault male experience on the iphone because male is integrated in the operating system. It's a core capability you talk to them about the browser. It's even more rely. It's like it is deeply baked into the ethos of the operating system. You you guys all know my my feelings on antitrust but I really feel like as a company you would just like. What are the most famous things ever happened at antitrust is Microsoft saying like those exact words like we are baking in an explore? It's a core component of the operating system. So like a thing that actually got them in trouble. The thing that got in trouble was like a variety of pricing schemes in strong arm tactics to make sure netscape. Wasn't there so the Internet explorer. Bacon was not the actual one piece of it. But like if you look at that case was like it was. It was a massive range of behavior that was deemed to be illegal right. That started it right like. Did you tie these things together? Do you use your market. Share in one place to illegally compete in another was like basically this morning but like yeah then. Microsoft was like two vendors. The price windows license skyrockets. If you don't bundle export like that's the thing but you're right. It's the most famous. What have you could pay fifty dollars more for iphone where you can set the default APPs. Pay The money fifty fifty dollars to unlock. I think I'm professional. That is true is most of these companies. The second there's even like the threat of this stuff start responding to it right because they want to ward off the threat so even just talking about it like makes for better competitive environment right like even just saying we WanNa make sure 'cause you don't have governments. Do I agree with you? the government shouldn't know apple how to design the iphone apple. Should they should just improve their product by allowing us to set a default Bra. That was a nice feature. It would be great. So the government is like waves like literally rattles. The Saber like committees are doing stuff and then apples like well. We are talking with this like. That's a good outcome. A smart person today in their point to me was apple is the most responsive to that right so like governments around the world. Are doing this stuff. It seems like apples the most responsive they are making the changes to get out ahead of it and this person was also like but if you look like Google is the least responsive so it's not it doesn't always work. Well I I can already set my own default. In fact I just set my default browser on Android TO DUCK DUCK. Go on this level but at the same time. Google is like everyone's interested in antitrust. We'RE GONNA go ahead and buy fitbit look just like what if another country like right now. Like hey antitrust regulators. Can you go ahead and improve this multibillion dollar act like they're not gonNA do stuff until they're forced to so cool in? Europe has not unbundled unbundled chrome in Play services on stuff because the European Union force them to do it now because they wanted to or because they saw the lawsuit need but again they were all along way more open and flexible for users than Apple's ever been on Ios. Yeah but if you look at the the contractual side right. If you were Samsung any wanted to ship a Tyson phone. Google would just be. Yank your play store license. Yeah but if you WANNA shipping phone you can't yeah so it's just that I understand that Google was doing dramatic things with its android license. I've just say apple does not do anything with its IOS. Maybe that's just like a a reflection then the two businesses like maybe we're I think we're saying the same thing in different ways like the reason apple is more responsive because they're just fully in control So they're like we do not want anything to disturb our control so we would rather do it on our own so we see this threat. We're GONNA make our moves ahead of time and retain all control. Google has like far less control as we were just talking about. They have this variety of complicated interlocking levers to sort of control. What happens but they don't actually just have one to push and so there's slow roll it and they try to do it contractually and they end up at the place where the European Union is like if Samsung wants to ship android phone. That doesn't have your service. You have to let them. You cannot tie them to controversy. So I think we're it's like two sides of the same coin in that sense like Google is less willing to let go controls. It already has such diffuse control. But it's like this is all kind of like a sidelines. The real question which is far and can set chrome browser it kind of as a matter if apple doesn't let another rendering engine on the phone. So which is I've been. I've been sitting here waiting to make devil. Devil's advocate argument. Just like I'd never so apple doesn't allow alternative web rendering engines on the iphone. And they will tell you. It's probably four like security and privacy reasons because turns out of Weber rendering engine can do a lot of nefarious stuff right. My cookie is in tracking. And who knows what else and it's also potentially really like a security problem for the integrity of the phone itself. Which is the thing that Google or the hard way with android? They were needing to update the web view for Android so often that they finally just said. Screw it we're putting it into Google play services that we just push out updates whenever we need to So it's no longer like the the chrome browser and the rendering engine for chrome usually gets pushed out via the Google play services now because it's faster and more convenient so there might be a case that apple could say we will let you set chrome as your default browser but it still has to use the iphones web rendering engine. Because it's faster and it's more secure and Blah Blah Blah an android. It's a little bit more complicated. A bunch of the alternative browsers do in fact. He's blink Which is you know the chromosome you know the chromium based or whatever I'm pretty sure fire Fox on android is based on Phoenix But I actually got a double check that don't hold me to that but There is potentially a case to be made that that you could allow alternative default browsers but not Let let those browsers be. You know a different rendering engine but it super complicated. So for example when you Click Lincoln Twitter. What happens you cry? In-app browser the don't want happens to me. Yeah Yeah Yeah On on android. It's the same thing but You know on the on the Samsung phone for example the NFL browser is like the Samsung Browser. Or if I set edge as default browser on android the INAP- browser just become edge. Which is really fascinating so an apple. Those things are a little bit more separated. So for example if you are logged in on your chrome browser and you click and you open up a in-app browser and twitter well. It just knows that you're logged in. You don't have to do it again. Yeah so all of these complaints that people have like. Oh God I gotta log in again and Blah Blah like your actual experience that about half as much on Android as you do on the phone. It's wild I mean the. How does the world loggins work when Across services when cookies are illegal. Which is like where we're going Is like one of the biggest open conversations. There is I think if they let third party browsers using the using the safari rendering engine besides the fall I would. I would not be like one hundred percent happy. That is a significant concession right. That is like it's still a huge move because third party risers can do a bunch of other stuff that the trashier is there Apple doesn't give you like really really clear access to it in the way you cannon android but like if you click on a link that it's like a twitter link it will open the twitter APP right most of the time in other apps so they know how to direct links to different APPs. If they want to so like they if they wanted to they could let you direct just plain. Http WWF you know links to chrome they could. They could do it. They know they have the technology. None of them are as egregious as mail. Yeah like just like honestly they have to know what has to be like. I'm sitting I. We didn't do a good job. They're feeling when you click on. Somebody's name because you think it's maybe a link to their bio or their twitter profile and it happens to be an email link. Oh No why did this happen to me? Like I said it's it's just a Gherman report. They're talking about it. I hope it happens for. I think everyone would be happy. I think would improve the phone. I think most people would still use the default apple. Be Happy but it's just the thing that is the most interesting to me. Is this connection between. Okay there's been all this all this noise and now this company that desperately wants to retain control is going to give up a slice of it over here so that governments. Don't Ashley tell them what to do. It's not necessarily a bad outcome. Yeah it's it's it's as the tension you want. That still doesn't require old johnny. Fbi to show your door threatens that's John ESPN threatening calls you up and he just breathes into the phone but he doesn't say now streaming and Apple TV plus. That's perfect relisting. We're back on Tuesday. Brian lessees of self driving car company. It's just thirty minutes or saying when are selling copies or when it's self driving already talked to somebody at we we we've talked to a lot of. Okay okay. It's it's it's it's always the same when is happening But he's really fun. Any Hawkins of that with me and then we're back next week chat show. It's just GONNA keep happening. We'll talk to you soon. You can tweet us by the way. I'm reckless policy. Paul Dudas back on data has a newsletter. I do version kosh newsletter. It's processor it's a newsletter about computers link. Tinkling goodbye all.

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YouTube Advertising, a Viacom/Hulu Deal, Discovery+ Content and Cord Cutting in 2021 | Jan 25, 2021

Behind the Numbers: eMarketer Podcast

23:48 min | 1 d ago

YouTube Advertising, a Viacom/Hulu Deal, Discovery+ Content and Cord Cutting in 2021 | Jan 25, 2021

"I thought that was really interesting to and also just not surprising. You know if you're watching on a larger screen a tv screen. You're more likely to be in a sort of passive what they call. Lean back mode where you're just sort of consuming content and not you're probably not clicking around as much as he would be on on a smartphone pay gang. It's monday january twenty fifth already ordering listeners. Welcome to the conversation that covers all the media advertising commerce and technology news. Cover it all. It's the behind the daily and eve. Marketer podcast a marcus. Today i'm joined by audrey shaima. Who is one of our senior analysts market. It's nice to be here to have you. That is audrey and today. We're talking about youtube advertising. So audrey listener folks rachel sandler forbes reported that quote youtube recently said they had extended then president donald trump's suspension on the platform for at least another week making it the latest companies to take action against mr trump in an effort to prevent violence. Biden's inauguration close quote. Mr trump's youtube channel got one strike strike one for violating the company's inciting violence rules after supporters stormed the capital strike. One means knob loading new videos and comments on existing videos onto sables if does get three strikes within three months than the band permanently. Seemed almost surprising that you choose name should appear in the headlines. Julia alexander of the verge reminds us that quote. Twenty twenty was much quieter for the company. This year went by without a cascade of egregious misdeeds. npr disasters fee gibb. It wasn't all smooth sailing though. Youtube faced misinformation concerns particularly around the election and still trying to work out how one hundred videos featuring children youtube twenty twenty wasn't great but it wasn't the usual whirlwind of crater chaos. She writes and so why so quiet for. Youtube is one of the questions some some folks are pointing to the pandemic was was the pandemic people inside. They went craftsman videos uploading as many as much contents. Which could be proud be controversial others pointing to youtube royalty starting to post on tiktok regularly doting big audiences getting involved in tiktok fast craters program to earn some cash. Things like that. So let's start here. Audrey did take talks. Twenty twenty Explosion effect engagement and usage on youtube. I think it tiktok did have some impact in terms of the amount of attention that may be the press was paying or users themselves were social media users themselves where paying to youtube as opposed to talk but on the other hand. There's still an enormous amount of engagement and usage going to youtube and so that activity definitely hasn't fallen off and so i think it would be a mistake to say that tiktok has necessarily eating into our away. Some of the time spent on you to her. Say yeah. it's it's kind of hard to ease into you tubes tubes growth. Because they've grown. The bow is much as you possibly can in a country at least in the us. Twenty twenty three point one percent growth was up a bit from twenty nine teen. They added six million. Us youtube us so the now at two hundred and fifteen million people. That's basically two thirds sixty five percents of the population of digital video viewers eighty-eight eight percent watch youtube. They're kind of running out of room to grow so it's hard for another company to affect the growth as there's not much left. Youtube was the social media platform that most americans hands significantly increase the usage. On as of may says kantar they beat facebook. Instagram zoom and facebook messenger as well. I believe we also saw time spent ordre on youtube. Take up a little bit couple of minutes last year and is gonna hold on watermark as well so youtube seen grew as much as it possibly could last year. We're talking about youtube. Because it's in a short while partly because no big headlines from covering earnings to a certain degree but also recently written a report on youtube advertising and so we want to talk into that a little bit before we talk about youtube advertising. I was wondering if you could quickly explain what you choose ad-supported products and services offerings. They have so there's you know of course there's youtube there you know. Which has the app version. Also the site version and this is the digital video ad supported platform that everybody tends to think of when they think of what youtube is on what offers in terms of products but youtube also has you to has some advertising and youtube tv which is the mvp or Skinny bundle service and that also features some advertising. But then you know. In addition to the ad-supported side of things youtube is also expanding anticiption products specifically you to premium water formerly known as youtube red. Yes oh yeah appreciate you in the alpha folks because most people would know youtube. Full the ad-supported youtube but as you notes a new report. You actually have figures of this as well. Youtube premium youtube music paid subscribers. They had over thirty million of those. That's now becoming a pretty sizable audience in q. Three twenty twenty up from twenty million the end of twenty nineteen so they added ten million in basically three quarters over that same time period as well as you mentioned youtube tv that they go. Two million to three million paid subscribers. We have Estimates wow insider. Intelligence estimates of youtube tv viewers that was subscribers reached three million paid subscribers but youtube tv view is more than double the number paid subscribers and growing. They're to reach eight million this year any sense of which of those businesses as most kind of exciting to watch it the moment where the investment is going where the talk is with regards to advertising. I mean it really still remains the site. I would say or the app. And that's still where the vast majority of the attention is going in terms of consumption as far as the other products. It's hard to know exactly how much usage is happening on those platforms. It's clear that there's growth happening even on. The ad supported subscription based products like youtube tv. You know the subscriber numbers there are growing. Which would indicate that you know. More attention and consumption is happening on that platform to end the same goes for youtube music. So you choose total. Us ad revenues came in just over four billion dollars last year. We're expecting five point five billion this year sewing incredible growth rebounding to two thousand and nineteen growth levels. Audrey you cover everything and then some in the report of a one of the things you want to focus on after this conversation was this shifting shifting viewing to see tv wonder if you could tell me about the shift in viewing to connected tv and how that looks on youtube specifically. Yeah so i mean this is a really interesting shift in. It's it's not a new shift necessarily but it's been accelerating a bit over the past couple of years and we think that some of that acceleration has also happened as a result of the pandemic as people spend more time at home streaming video. but essentially. what's happening is that we have data. That's basically showing that about a third or little bit. Less than a third at this point of viewing of youtube is happening on see tv devices and essentially the the largest screen in your house and in the past and still now. Most of the viewing is happening has been happening on mobile devices specifically smartphones. So right now about half. The time spent on youtube is happening on mobile in the us. But let's see. Tv viewing has jumped in terms of its share of time spent two bowed. I think the present is that we had from one source was about twenty two percent and that's year-over-year from seventeen percent or something like that Yeah i thought that was a fascinating from collab- when you sign your report showing the point that third of youtube video views happening on connected. Tv that is making up from a quarter at the end of two thousand. Nineteen so in three quarters. Q one q two and q three of two thousand twenty. It went from a quarter of those views happening on. Cv to a third of those us happening on see tv and this taking share directly from mobile is not like he's taking it from other. You know lesser forms of digital things. People don't use as much computers. Tablets is coming from mobile directly not from from tablets and computers and that sharon twenty eight so just two years ago. Three years at this point was eighteen percents. So it's coming from a percents in two thousand eighteen to basically a third so nearly doubled in just three short years also. You has the recession club as well looking average youtube session length among us youtube views. How long are people spending on youtube per session across devices anzor. Ott double that of mobile has been from q four twenty nine hundred ninety. Three of twenty twenty is typically been about eight days increase going into the start of twenty twenty and then kind of dropped off a little bit as did the session length of across all devices. But it's interesting to see what that behavior or behavioral shift means in terms of viewership if you can get people in front of the screen the largest green sticking around for longer yet. That's exactly right. When i thought that was really interesting to and also just not surprising. You know if you're watching on a larger screen tv screen. You're just likely to be in a sort of passive what they call league. Lean back mode where you're just sort of consuming content and not you know you're probably not clicking around as much as you would be on on a smartphone. Yeah yeah you know questions. I see some of these companies is. How can we get people to spend more time on. The platform at one is move them august green. I guess you don't need to make any changes feature wise if you can get people in front of a bigger screen that they'll stick around for longer about how advertises combine by youtube. So in your report you talk about various ways to buy ads on youtube self-serve programmatic reservation buys important the soul the ads as well. So let me about these different youtube ad buying options so the the the way that most advertisers are now purchasing youtube advertising is through either one of google's own buying platforms either google ads or displaying video. Three sixty otherwise known as as devi three sixty. Which is you know they're true or sort of full-fledged esp that allows advertisers to buy any inventory across google's in tire series of properties within the walled garden and that includes youtube obviously but then beyond that. There's there's other ways to really access youtube inventory. As an advertiser google has its own sales teams and those google reps are specifically there to help advertisers businesses to set up an optimize their atkins. For whatever needs they have. And then there's also some inventory that s- those reps would be able to reserve would need to reserve for a specific ad formats so for example masthead ads on tv. Devices can only be bought through that google rep and then you know the third way that i thought was interesting and we heard from some agencies buyers that actually this is becoming potentially a more desirable way to buy and that's through partners old ads and so with that Essentially youtube partners. Who are part of this program called the partners sold. Ads program are basically given permission by google or youtube to sell their own inventory that they're uploading to platform so those partners could be publishers. That could be media. Companies youtube talent networks agencies and so basically these partners serpentine content on the platform. Have this benefits of having focused ability into their own content. That's essentially the benefit that they're passing along to the buyer in terms of having content transparency. And being able to say. I i wanna beyond these videos specifically in know what they're buying interesting. What's the relationship between branding and direct response ads on youtube. The moment of conversation about this across media across last year with regards to youtube whilst going on with branding versus direct response so director lawns and performance based advertising with a desired action. Sort of as part of the reason for buying the ad. It has really propped up. Google or youtube adb business over the past year during the pandemic particularly as branding and brand advertising sort of fell off a little bit since advertisers really much more focused on performance and time sensitive buying so that i mean. That's something that essentially happened across the board across all different channels. But it also happened on on you to close out the story by giving the listeners. One or two of the main takeaways from this report. Yeah so i mean. I do think that The shift to see tv viewing is something that should matter probably to tv advertisers in particular It's really no secret. Anyone who sort of paying attention to youtube move that they're interested in taking some share from traditional tv ad sales and that's something that Any bump really in engagement on see tv devices on the platform could accelerate. And so you know. I think that. Tv advertisers are are probably taking a closer look at youtube given that increase and then the second sort of takeaway is just that there's likely to be raider amounts of higher quality inventory on the platform and not not specifically advertising inventory but just the quality of content in general across the board as publishers devote more resources to to the program that they're putting up there. Yeah no one asked but my takeaway from the report was. We'll see tv as well. Us connected tv ad spending share by company. Hulu number one twenty four percent youtube six points back in second place with eighteen percent. Twenty twenty one. They will close the gap to three points. Youtube is going to gain some. Who's going lose. The base roku third with half the share of youtube currently seconds and roku in third and the other fifty percents of the market going to the other guys as coin to own insider intelligence estimates from our forecasting team youtube gross see tv and revenues will go from three billion to four and a half billion twenty twenty two twenty twenty one. That's going from over thirty percent growth in two thousand twenty two over to nearly fifty percent growth in twenty twenty one so incredible recovery in see tv ad. Revenues for youtube grows level check out. Audrey is a. Us youtube advertising twenty twenty reports where she explains incredible detail. How youtube viewing is shifting to see tv and what it means for tv. Advertisers dot com or insider intelligence dot com. Flack says to that. Report all right. That's all for the lead story is time now for in other news. I quit worried about some insight and intelligence research audrey tautou listeners. A bit about some of the research working on currently my next report is called publisher ad monetization. Actually the third party cookie. So it's really focused on sell side concerns among publishers. Who are thinking about how they should be preparing for the deprecation of the cookie in chrome and of course the third party could already been lost on other browsers safari and firefox fox and expected to also happen in two thousand twenty two so that's expected to publish in march a must read folks if you do have access to emarketer mocked pro subscriber you can have emerged dot com or insider intelligence dot com access to the very report when it drops at the beginning of much if not subscribe and then that report is all yours back today in other news. Viacom's struck a deal with hulu streaming service. Discovery plus has some wholesome programming and how much cooled cussing. Might we see in twenty twenty one story. One right of january viacom struck a deal with hulu. Fourteen channels like mtv comedy central nickelodeon the paramount network available on hulu with live tv. The agreement with hulu is the latest in a series of deals viacom. Cbs signed with folks like dish network. Comcast youtube tv and verizon communications audrey in your opinion what does this deal between viacom. And who signify so the deal is specifically for hulu plus live tv which is who later skinny bundle service. I guess you could say disney's skinny bundle service upright but you know what speaking of sort of like historically buy com has has struggled a little bit like in the early days of skinny bundles to get carriage of their networks on skinny bundle services and that was mainly driven by offs in younger audiences that gravitated to those networks so this is kind of a reversal of tides. And it seems as though cares feels are getting easier to make for viscount cbs. It's sort of unclear to me exactly why but at the same time skinny. Bundles need to compete with each other. The fact that moore carriage deals are happening means that one needs to sort of follow suit and so that that could have been that prompted this but in general just for from the consumer's perspective. That's a good thing you know you have more breadth of channels and content but whenever there are channel additions it also means there are price hikes. True story story to us streaming service discovery plus is banking on consumers wanting to also stream more. Wholesome programming not just blockbuster films and thrilling. Tv shows the new discovery plus service will be offering cooking shows. Nature program is home. Improvement shows and more unscripted content from hdtv food network animal planet discovery et cetera. For five dollars a month with commercials or seven dollars without audrey is there a space in the streaming world for this flavor of content. I'm not the target market for. I do think that there's definitely a market for this idea of comfort food. Tv's something you can just kind of have on in the background. it's soothing. people may need the kind of thing more during the pandemic menacing. That discovery does have is a really strong brands and personalities attached to the service. So i think also towards the idea of why is a need for comfort food tv. I think that there might be another form of fatigue. Essentially streaming users. Have you know around the decision to you. Start watching some tv series. It amounts to a huge commitment. And if he can just put something on like this that's a lower commitment and maybe that's of interest I want to jump on a few points. Media analysts global president of business intelligence group him. Brian weezer had on the show last year knows. The discovery made itself into a cable. Giant with the kind of programming lends itself to ambient genre based viewing something to watch. When you don't want to watch anything in particular can they be successful in. The world has moved away from channel surfing on demands era. Netflix does have some of that. Content dream home makeover street. Food touching up with marie kondo as well. So there is some content on net flicks. How consumers feel about discovery plus nearly one third of us adults said they are likely to subscribe to the service service as one third including twelve percent who said they are very likely to morning console. Civic sciences january research slightly bigger sample of the shows a lower figure of people who are likely to subscribe seventeen percents. The inclusion of discovery channel animal planet and investigation discovery was the most likely content to encourage folks to subscribe and also was asking folks thinking about what you typically watch on streaming services. What do you typically watch. Scripted is unscripted. Lot of people saying a mix of both but more people thirty eight percent saying mostly scripted. Twelve percent said unscripted and then educational versus entertainment again. Some folks an equal mix of both but a fifty percent saying entertainment mostly and seven percent saying mostly educational purposes growth for discovery. Plus will come from the initial boost from that verizon promotion which is giving rise and customers a year free some of the disney plus They're also launching on roku amazon fire tv as well the gateways to see tv which avoid the problems. Hbo maximum peacock streaming services that they experienced when they launched on one. Not the other story three. How much cussing might we see in. Twenty twenty one. It's a great question. Marcus roy advanced television knows that are cutting the cord on that cable. Subscriptions more rapidly than previously reported citing the second future of tv. Survey of over. A two thousand americans. I take company trade desk. They shows that over a quarter over quarter twenty seven percent of. Us cable tv subscribe is planning to cut their subscriptions that he cable subscriptions by the end of twenty twenty one. Nothing in the double the fifteen percent of cable subscribers who said that they cut the cord in two thousand twenty. The research also noted that live sports might even be struggling to keep you as attached to their traditional cable tv packages as folks move over to streaming platforms to watch their favorite teams after the pandemic induced pause in live sports nearly four percent of viewers watching live sports events via see tv like ad-supported streaming and social media platform. So audrey. what do you make of this research and what it says about court. Cussing in twenty twenty. one. Yeah i mean. The the trend is pretty bleak. I still believe that the vast majority of people are saying that they're going to cut the cord or have cut the cord as a result of the high cost of tv. And that was definitely something that was even more of a problem arguably during the pandemic year. And you know people suffering more financial strain or just being more conscientious about their spending or whatever else and then you know given the there's also been a huge surge in the availability of streaming services. That are either free or or really cheap comparatively. I think that those are the major drivers. That's leading this sort of discharge in terms of of cutting We have fifty seven percents of us households having tv this year fifty seven. They'll be down from sixty percents last year. So not the steep declines that this research is suggesting but it is heading in the wrong direction. That's what we got time for this episode. thank you to my guest. Her name is audrey. Thanks a very weird way of thanking. You and i apologize sincerely. Everyone hooked onto this. And then if you wanna say higher any questions podcast a monster dot com is where you can find us. We'll see us tomorrow for another episode of the behind the daily an e mark to podcast kim.

youtube tiktok Google audrey audrey shaima rachel sandler mr trump Mr trump Julia alexander Audrey hulu viacom
Samsung shows off Galaxy Note 10, Disney announces streaming bundle, and Apple's Siri recordings controversy

The Vergecast

1:31:35 hr | 1 year ago

Samsung shows off Galaxy Note 10, Disney announces streaming bundle, and Apple's Siri recordings controversy

"Does we talked with the galaxy note tenets and two sizes that well. It's going on androids backup gesture. Julia alexander joins us to talk about disney and the streaming wars. We get into do it siri listening to you. It's always listening to you. That's coming up now. What if we could diagnose diseases before we got sick. Technology is changing healthcare and making good doctors integrate ones samsung next explains how in their new series the end of the beginning watch it at samsung dot com slash beginning the chest. The flagship podcast podcasting assist an ecosystem that is now in partnership with microsoft to combat hi. I'm neil. I'm your friend. It's not actually we'll get. I'll explain it to you but i'm not eli deeter about is in new york with me in new york with you because of the note tenant that's right which i couldn't personally attend to turn came anyway which samsung microsoft announced partnership partnership paul miller is here. Hello paul. I'm very well. Thank you do you do you did he removes your headphone jack for an additional battery no but i would like to announce that i'll never part with microsoft and they can never pay me and they can never own me see year lenox on the desktop there we go all right. That's the big news the note ten yeah. It's here two sizes. It's a lot going on about <hes>. There's two sizes <hes>. There's a small small note. <hes> everyone says don't call it small because it's big six point three inches. That's big. There's no. It's not that much bigger than a galaxy s. ten. I'm very excited about the small. Yeah actually really like it then. There's like the full on note note. The note not not not the note ten plus which i think should just be the note but whatever it's got a six point eight screen. It's about the same size as last year note so the thing about the note is it's comes in the back half of the year just like the pixel does yes and that is off cycle to when qualcomm makes its newest android chips available to andrew manufacturers. That's the earlier in the year and the ten unusually gets right in that first revenue right so the note historically in your head is the phone that just has every feature and is the most those powerful and the biggest and the most the most samsung and the can't do that with the processor anymore <hes> and increasingly it's getting hard for the do it with the screen because this thing doesn't have a ninety hertz refresh rate like the one plus seven pro. It's not bigger than other android phones but it is a very very very very nice screen like it looks like a samson quality screen and so i'm not really freaked out about the ninety hurts thing or whatever but what. What do you buy note for like what what is it that you want out of interational on the technology packed into the stylus. Well you can waive. The stylists like a one it. It's a unibody he stylus now. It's a single piece of metal backs. I know that you are. I mean they get had to do something. If there wasn't i r- since in this would have would exceed the functionality of the original. Here's my question. When does this tireless become a tiny little phone on on its own. That's what you gotta get to like. What is this style. It's a little phone use. Hold it up to your head. Calls the stylus awesome yeah. You just got it accelerometer gyroscope in it. I mean i saw a video of dealer like flipping through a camera roll sixty five percent accuracy rate boy. I didn't realize that you have to hold the button down while you wave it then. It got to play sixty five seventy percent four zero improvement this this is the big thing for me is declaration a mac or a p._c. Decks is of no one uses it or maybe people do. There's like the four people that like body u._s._b. Monitor auditor bluetooth keyboard and like i'm living that decks life but really coming come on <hes> but the ability to have an android window on your computer peter that is just your phone is actually kind of compelling because it's way easier way to get at your messaging for example you can do some of this with like the your your phone stuff on microsoft soft but getting whatsapp or signal on your computer you got to like scan the q._r. code and make sure blah and the epidemic is this there. Is there yeah yeah. Open it up at the window and go to town. Try to move files from android to a p._c. Is always sort of been a terrible yeah used ex <hes> just wanna be clear on this yeah so decks <hes> with the note nine for example ten you plug into monetary plug in a keyboard yep you get like a windowed operating a riff on android yeah. It's running. Android apps made made windows onto them. Yes his worked better over the years yup. You still have to have a dock and they just need a cable and now they've made it. You just need a u._s._b. Cable cable plug it into a computer. Okay so you plug it into your computer so you don't have a monitor to run it on a mac. Oh you got a u._s._b. S._p._c._a. cable yup you plug one end near mac young other end into your note ten yep by the same plug on both ends of that cable go yeah he he to promise of u._s. Is alive and then just to be clear to phone starts charging up your laptop presumably and then an app on your laptop opens opens up and then you can just open up. You might have to click a button. I don't know you got it. Yes something happens. You do some application stuff yup. The decks app opens yup and then you see a windows code operating system that window. You don't see like a note ten right. That's correct. We not operating system inside a window like you're seeing into your note that superweeds yeah. It's all it's so close in so far right. It's super weird. Does it feel like what is the. I'm guessing it doesn't feel perfectly native or does it does. It feels like a vnc. It totally does like there's a little bit. There's like it's a little bit slower. <hes> you remember wouldn't plugged into the phone directly. Then they the uh you can run a monitor over usb without is so weird yeah slower because it's also like android like i'm not touched one. It's slower because it's android debone. Wow that's a deep. We've cut. It's almost like i'm guessing it's probably kind of like running capture card yeah right except you're just not recording it to your heart but you're taking basically a video signal <unk> over usb and then show a window and then also sending mouse events yep it also apparently drag and drop events exactly that's exactly what's happening. That's why right. That's why i think there's like. It feels like it's a little bit of lag. I've only used it for about five minutes so it could be the i remember badly. Yeah i mean i love this idea. Yeah ah that you're going to sit down and then you can kinda. Operate your phone on your computer yeah. It's a great idea. This sounds like nuts. You just you want you want the like the vertical vertical like foam especially windows computer. I think cabinets of you see your phony user phone of that. Same screen makes perfect sense do that. That could be version version. I want to narrow the window. It's like responsive design. It's like a phone a phone a phone. Oh my god it's weird vnc yeah okay. Eh you ever parallels mac you could <hes> you could like set the thing where it doesn't put all the window stuff inside a desktop inside a window. You break it out and have windows win days in your mac should do that. I think panelists from axel exists because it says some weird hardware compartmentalization yeah okay do that. That's what i want. I want random floating windows across mix and match operating systems. It's doesn't seem exactly like the future but has like it rhymes with the future. They're it just it just feels right about it like if i had this phone i think i would use this more than i would've used decks before like like i'm working on a software project object. I want to test the links build of something right so i just like open up this that i opened up the lyrics app inside of decks and run the the lyrics app to test it out and <hes> you know unplug when i'm done and it's instead of having to like like plug a hole monitor and keyboard in just to get this experience. You'll the raw power virtual heights lennox inside of decks running on vnc over a cable on a mac and then also. It's going to be the dream machine for andrew developer. Yeah maybe why because you can test your android app on the computer your develop you you can test your android app on an android phone on your computer that you're developing the android emulator or whatever yeah maybe inside of decks. That's the that's the maybe that's one of my app works. Great on decks tested anywhere else else virtuous cycle. I was talking to becca youtube star <hes> she is interested <hes> for video because they did a bunch of videos stuff for the no ten it has like it's paying the accelerometer gyroscope more for steady shooting and it could do book headed in the background. Whatever and it's doing that zuma zuma things so in theory you might be shooting more video on this thing and so getting files off through dax might like be nicer because you could just like plug it in i and then use the big file browser inside tax to go find the stuff that you want instead of poking at it in the gallery and then hitting the share button offering that somehow you'll get it to your computer. Okay okay that could be. That's the thing maybe what else it's got. Three cameras has got a little video display got three cameras. The big one has a time of flight camera which they are using in for a our stuff which <hes> i didn't see but they showed it on stage. I actually looks like a really cool. Nobody will ever use it but you can do the thing where you like drawn space you know and you can like draw moustache on somebody's face in stays on their face when they move around truly the best use of this technology. The coolest thing that can do though is it. You can do a three d. Scanner thing you you can just walk around the thing in a circle and creates a three d version of that object and you know it looks pretty bad but it's close and then you can take that thing and like use it as like a sticker occur in some other scene or hell you throw it to a three d. printer great for intellectual property thefts. I feel like this will be once. That sort of three three d scanning stuff becomes more ubiquitous like this will be a great like a user generated content video game yeah like if i had a skateboard game but then i could ali over head that i scanned with my phone you know and i make a youtube video of it and now i'm famous. That's good truly living the samsung. What's my my full. Live like samsung lifestyles us this weird samson feature to make a weird game on android and put it on youtube and i'm sponsored by samsung. It's like just complete. I'm saying there needs to be a game. That is a good video like you ever watch people like maude grant. I see what you're saying like a good actual actual game that people actually play that accepts weird yeah proprietary samsung three d scanning. I'm so into it. There's a bunch of those who could talk about like it's got the the beam forming for zoom. Mike which is cool the thing that i keep coming back to though is it's just nice. Yeah it's nine hundred fifty the plus it starts at eleven hundred and then it's two hundred bucks more or hundred bucks more to get the five twelve storage but the one plus seven pro costs four hundred fifty dollars less or or something three hundred fifty dollars less depending on which model you're looking at and it has in theory like comparable screen. Perhaps even better some people if they really care about refresh. Rate cameras are like close. It's really close in like every category but it's just not as nice of an object like yeah one of the things you're paying for when you get. This thing thing is like i'm gonna take notes now. Duo cr and i'm going to the dream of using the stylus but you're also just buying like a really nice phone yeah yeah house. They <hes> the infinity. Oh situation like looking good. It's just a little bit smaller than it is on the ten yeah and you know it's a hole in the middle of your screen green. They centered it. Instead of putting it off to the side i i'm done having angst and feelings about vessels and <hes> notches and stuff yeah super done. It's it's it's amazing that there's literally no on the like you can see it. You could see it. It's there but like it is minuscule <hes> and that's why they can have these giant screen green select again like the regular tennis six point three inches but it's more square than most phones because it's a note and since it goes edge to edge and there's virtually no basil it feel it does not feel like a six point. Three inch phone used to feel it feels like a much smaller phone and so that's when you're really into i i i'm trading my s. ten in for it why of sad about the headphone jack. We should talk about that for a minute. That's where i was going but samsung is offering a six hundred dollar rebate for the s. ten which is like pretty good so it's still pretty new phone. It's still a pretty new phone but yeah and then they're giving you. One hundred fifty bucks to store credit to buy like cases which i didn't. It's also pure margin. That's how you we know like samsung cases and chargers costs four cents to make any southern for seventy dollars like speeded-up gul's <hes> the u._s._c._c. headphone dangle will not in the box nine nine thousand nine. That's separate. I think is actually technically a crime so i wanna headphones. I would like to say that. I was extremely extremely wrong about something kind of disappointed wrong with something so we i think last week we four. We're talking to their ten coming out. I said they're gonna take out the headphone jack. We're just minutes. It's away from proprietary bixby buds right because that's the that's the thing you take out the headphone jack and you're like but you still need to listen this stuff. Have you tried our our one hundred twenty twenty dollar headphones right but i was going to go on a roundabout galaxy buds and have bixby integration but i let it go right okay because they didn't mention bixby once. Yes yeah right like samson. This is your moment right. We took out the headphone jack. We know you're sad. Have you thought about galaxy buds. They've gone on dixie. Integration bixby nope bixby's. There's not the bixby button anymore. It's integrated into the power button which is amazing like how far are are you demoted to activates also returns the phone our series on the sleep wake button yeah like yeah yeah yeah okay series also just like constantly activating blue all the time yeah and then it gets recorded and listen to you by contractors. Do you guys think cortana anna bixby hang out. No i think cortana they're doing that. The alexa thing has just been alone the whole time and now samsung when it's it's launching the phone that literally has all the features in a samsung does like every same as the only company that still does this as far as i can tell every little feature has like a wacky brand name right. They're like way force limited. That's the volume button like that's all that is right the volume button just a flurry of these features and names. You can waive the pen around like and big speed nowhere. I think that's a assign assigned to you but also the button down. It's bixby and it's not google assistant and apparently you can't change it yeah. You can't so that's is a sign whatever that means you can you can you can set the long press to bixby and then you can set the double press to camera or like swap them. I think <hes> they can't settle any of those presses to google assistant if they had if they had just natively let you choose google assistant that would be a huge sign but they're not quite there yeah. I think they should probably go there but they're not quite there. Can i say this. The first ever bixby capsule of value is released god. This is your time. You made the promise i i did so i i said if anybody makes a big speed. They're called capsules for some reason. There's the skills. It's the app that shows you a robot or a butler dog. Chuck butler originated shoes yeah <hes> that i would mention your name for month. As the the catch the word that will say at the end of the show and it has it has happened you can go. It's not called bixby because they probably wouldn't allow that but it's called dog butler. It's it's incredible by <hes> cassini and <hes> you in order to like. Get the skill to work. You know how like amazon i guess that you're trying to talk to phillips or whatever google does the same thing the place where you have to specifically invoke the capsule and then you have to give the capsule command you. You can't just like run a thing. You have to invoke the thing and then tell the thing what to do wait. Can you explain invoked the capsule like the one so yeah. It's right here so do you have to like say like just. Do it ever understand what you're trying to say soon as you do it in dog butler. Show me a dog butler and i'm looking at a picture of dog. It's really good and it says i just want everyone to know that for the past few days and wandering in the office saying doug butler show dollar and like it's not that he won't explain to you what's happening. It keeps happening yeah. It's great. It's the one on true great use bixby if you have a samsung phone with bixby and you haven't explored the capsule store. Please please make this the most popular capsule. I find the bixby capsule store without googling it. You deserve a lot of those impossible so confused anyway. I think it'd be great if the virtuous audience that people will samsung phones may butler by far the most popular highest rated yes. I think that's a power that we have golden retriever in your car. You get your phone out figure out where the capsule store make this happen for us. Last thing about bixby we head to publish a story are- today who's headline was basically yet. Samsung hasn't canceled the bixby home. Actually i have it in front of me. Samsung headlines krecko samsung son confirms. Its long delayed galaxy home. Smart speaker is still in the works. What a confirmation. What an amazing confirmation. Yes we have not giving up on our barbecue grill and it's much bigger. I wasn't going to mention this but lt which is a cable company has announced a smart speaker in the time that the temps announced the galaxy o two now yeah. It's a five hundred dollars smart speaker with alexa integration that can control your cable box. If that thing beats the galaxy home to market the the cable company then there's a real problem yeah all right so there's this picture that i saw that i think speaks volumes about what's going on with android and windows and samsung samsung and microsoft okay. I'm not sure you're going with this but i'm i'm staying with you. So samsung has like a billion partners onstage underarms doing watch microsoft is doing blinked in his preloaded so you want at nelson's for business in on the note ten. It's all of microsoft soft loaded on on the no ten. You've got outlook preinstalled yet lincoln. You got the year phone thing compatibility with windows ten built into the quick settings yeah so that's where i'm getting. There is as a photo where they're showing this off. A photo is someone holding a note tan with the messages app open and then some other windows windows laptop in front of them. It's your phone and it's showing them the messages in that app yeah the reason you make that photo and put it in the world has a press image is to be like this can do their thing. I message can do yeah which is like a thing people love right. I message sinks to your computers. Okay now th your phone. We've brought them together. I think microsoft's game is as we can't go partner with google directly but samsung makes the most phone samsung will sign literally any deal. Let's buddy up with samsung among were make we'll make it so that if you have a windows laptop the thing that you want is a samsung phone right and that will be full of microsoft services right. That's it seems like doc samson microsoft's phone yeah. That's what they're going for. The windows phone failed so now they're going for samsung windows and we're gonna. We're gonna preloaded a bunch of suffer samson. Yeah i will tell you bill gates on the show bill gates samsung phone. Is that is that. Is that what you see you. That's completely reasonable to me. The thing that i the thought of what i saw all these partnerships is holiday. Season is coming. Samsung traditionally has a huge marketing budget no one's by an phones <hes> as fast as often as they he's to the phones are more expensive samsung needs every ounce of like marketing support that it can get promotional support that can get an so hugging microsoft soft real close. <hes> will convince microsoft that it should promote samsung <hes>. It's good for both of them to sell some stuff. I think you're right that that it makes a lot more sense that make soft wants to push people to enter it because the thing about android is it's open and you could do shifts and sometimes that's the problem but it means that microsoft can get its hooks in a way it never will be able to on the iphone. It's better for microsoft to have android users than it is to have iphone users oh absolutely and and if they ever do a surface phone right they've got a lot of experience with this integration yeah and then pour samsung once again. We'll be like but we'll do ties in. It's ever shipping ties. Do you think a surface vote as really probable really farfetched to me. It is a thing that tom talks about a lot like we hear about it a lot like there's a i think when i've asked like panos about it he's always like he does that a lot of energy so you like says no with a lot of energy but he's like no. We gotta like look at stuff. It's like that's like that's sort of like the vibe is always on the back burner. Someone at microsoft is always like what about a surface phone like every other month. Somebody delivers a clay prototype to his desk just a month. It's just a rectangle klay prototype spec- we're not ready for you. I will tell you that microsoft better than any other company at making hinges <hes> <hes> you know who's we're gonna make it hinges at samsung though do they talk about the fold at all in this dow they pre announce that it was that they were actually ship. It ahead of the slow wouldn't come up at the event <hes> yeah all right well. They do not smoke. There's a galaxy book s which has a qualcomm ship in it yeah it's the qualcomm eight c x which is the most promising of of the armed chips for windows devices and qualcomm aquatic an arm windows device. You know you're supposed to get twenty three hours of video playback and you know l. T. e. is built in and that's not complicated and like stuff. You know but you know it'll be like pokey. <hes> hyme tried it <hes>. He said it felt okay. Yeah we got a review it. Of course it actually doesn't look so much like a it's like a hybrid between like a surface book and a mac book. It's like a weird middle middle zone between those in terms of its like industrial feel and look okay. I'm excited to see it thousand bucks which is pretty expensive for to take a risk on yeah our processor being enough for you. Where's the webcam located <hes> that i i don't know it's it's on the top. It's all the top. I'm looking at okay. I took a it took us. Zoom call on an x. p. S. fifteen eighteen today with a athanasios cam and i was like literally embarrassed the whole time yeah. I apologized to a person yeah okay. That's my nude checking. The thirteen has the tiny little campbell the top that puts apples webcam to shame because it's a tenth of the size and three times to quality <hes> yeah. Is there gonna be a chrome. Obviously it's hoping too much for one of these mainstream companies to come out with a lennox eight x laptop but when are we going to get a chromebook eight at eight six. I have no idea i actually don't know if that's table if they are even bothering to try a really i there so depend on intel further you can you can get a bunch of <hes> arm based <hes> <hes> chromebooks. They're still out there but like most of premium well. I don't know if the a._t._s. is specifically tuned for windows like we're going to get a bunch of email time dumb and wrong so just send it in yeah. I don't know the answer. You might remember that earlier. In the show say android was slow. Get all those ideas out at deeter. That'd be great. <hes> i'm gonna make the people even angrier later but we get into it. You're gonna have a review. It's gonna happen. I'm excited about this a to i just you know i like. I like compact big phone. That's the thing now you don't you only like sports. I mean i i've got the big phone. It's like i. I like a big screen. I mean friends. Phones are getting bigger. That's what's happening dream and the smartphone is over okay but there's like other android controversy in the world so i by the way you who are driving the that's your fault yeah okay so the last public developer beta for android q. You came out beta six and like they have for the past several betas google tweaked the way that the back gesture works are like added some stuff off and it was super confusing and no one knew what it meant like people that run android sites full-time for their job didn't know what the heck google is doing so here's like the fundamental problem. There's this apter on the left and the back gesture means that the after thing doesn't works he got can't slide it in and google had two choices at this moment choice number one well. They had three choices choice number. One figure out another way for baxter saved the app store. Just only do it on the right hand side or something <hes> choice number two yeah sorry the after you can't slide in for the after anymore. That's that's just the way it goes tap. The hamburger button turns out that <hes> that's what nineties ninety six percent think it was like three to seven percent people ever ever used that slide to like particularly discovered right so they could just it's yep sorry and we all went okay right <hes> but instead said what they did is like what if we would give you some we hear you. We're gonna fix it. We'll figure it out and they're trying to figure out a way to have swiping in from the left side of the screen due to completely different different things and their solutions you like hold your finger down and then the the drawer kind of peeks out and then then you can cite in and they'll slide the drawer in right and this is all a problem because everybody that made an android app made an android app withdraw because mataya duarte said. That's the way to make android apps. You tell us this and he's he ret cons at says no no oh no. I just said that you should like blah. Blah blah blah and do your thing everyone was to slavish to your own designer anywhere has ever said what it was like like complicated okay to get this drawer which i will be honest. I wanna that like ninety three ish percent of people who do not know how to open drawers before now. Is it like a hesitant swipe. No you hold your finger down and then peeks out and then you can slide it in so it's a press then swipe yeah. It's a along press than swipe. Yeah totally intuitive. I mean no one's ever not discovered a long press action. So here's the here's the problem problem actually compounds all of this is google is introducing a setting to change the sensitivity of the back gesture and what the hell does it mean it means how how far in how many pixels in from the edge of the screen will it detect your fingers swiping and i'd like you did that. Cause your people are mad about the thing and blah blah blah and that's what everybody pretty soon and they're like no that baxter thing is there because there's so many different kinds of android phones. A lot of just aren't good at detecting the touches at the edged the screen they all have different like you know sensitivities there and so sometimes you're gonna need to crank it up and i said well why do you. Why are you giving the user a setting you shouldn't do that you should she just figure out what the sensitivity isn't the phone ahead of time and set it to that and they're like yeah except <hes>. Have you ever seen anybody with a phone. They put cases on them. <hes> so you're you're gonna make the entire side of the screen like the core navigation feature of the phone which by the way the back button is the core navigation feature of android. Yeah people hit. The back act put fifty percent more than they hit the home button. That's nuts back. Button is never been beloved. It was always like i've always loved it. Yeah except that it it's broken because it takes you out of the app instead of just going up higher but still right. I deeply love okay <hes> so yeah so they need need to put that little sensitivity thing out in case you put big case out and then you can't hit the edge just right there. That is the most android thing i've ever heard it all of the best in worst ways like there's a party that loves it because only google and only android comes up with that solution yup and as part of and it's like this is this this is this is the whole problem with android in a weird way. Android is more consistent than the iphone when it comes to swiping in from the left side of the screen even with that weird peak thing which which they should get rid of because on an iphone sometimes swiping in goes back and sometimes it opens up a drawer you never know was it opened up a door slack or a bunch of apps that that have georgina like a bunch of apps. If you swipe from the left sometimes you go up in the hierarchy and sometimes you open up drawer over on the left hand side. You never know and google just swiping in goes back the end okay so twitter. Yeah see whole bunch of apps. Oh this is like all over the place yeah. This is what i'm saying even the twitter app. It's like all right yeah. You never really know no. I know i figured it out yeah. I'm not gonna tell you okay no. It's it goes back in the hierarchy until you get to haul yes us which is sure it does something different depending on the context which is exactly what you want in a user design user interface design. Especially for an undiscovered will just yet so. I haven't seen as much about this. I just got the the beta on my phone just before the verge castle. I'm now expert foreigners. If you swipe oh god back on the bottom left or bottom quarter if you swipe back that's not a back. That's the assistant. The google assistant is a diagonal swipe in from either of the bottom corners that is correct and they are constantly changing the animation to try and figure out how to make it visible and understandable well and not annoying as hell like i'm being tricked and <hes> little little tidbit there. I think they can change it without having to push an entire android update like they. It could be like no one's using this. Let's tweak sitting on the server and that will like so. They're like the betas without the betas. Updating all right one is q. You coming out for real <hes> a few weeks quote unquote. Oh oh yeah so this is this is like this is what we're getting and <hes> everyone's very mad and i. I think they're very mad because google negotiated with terrorists. They tried to like give everybody what they wanted and they should have just said. No this how we're taking over and we're doing google way to do it right. The most google way to do it is like now made us ed active for back jasper but that doesn't even affect the thing that people blur unhappy about yeah. That's that's why it's the most google it's like. All of you are mad about google reader going away <hes> but here's a number of options in youtube. It's in the same also nine to five mac got a huge <hes> pixel scoop <hes> they've got like a whole bunch of specs and most hosted which are like basically what you would expect them to be the two interesting things are <hes> sounds like they're gonna go for a ninety hertz refresh rate screen so it'll be smoother and there is a quote unquote d._s._l. Attachment for the cameras on the back. What like eleventh it is like. It's like i'm also the guy in charge. A pixel mario karaz just got like a ascended up like a like a like a deity too soon dart's office and rick osterloh is taking over taking charge of pixel directly for the time being <hes> yeah okay right before like weeks before the pixel fours sooners like look rick. You've been tweeting about it for weeks like running like what are we doing here. Okay all right. We gotta take a break. Julia alexander is gonna join us talk about the streaming. Moore's we'll be right back. This episode of the verge has brought to you by ted do you ted talks daily with short talks fox covering everything from the jobs of the future to how the world might end ted talks daily has episodes for everyone check out a recent talk from scotland's first minister nicholas sturgeon on what we should prioritize hi so far above g._d._p. Or one from nancy wang on the real impact of china's one child policy find ted talks daily on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast app. Hey jason delray and i'm hosting a new podcast called land of the giants in it. We examined the most powerful tech companies of our time. Season one's called the rise of amazon about how jeff bezos turn what was just an online bookseller into one of the biggest companies in the world and how it transformed the way we shop up live and work will explore how amazon prime is the key to the company's success and how it something you'll never quit. We'll see what happens when amazon was on builds a warehouse in a small kansas town and then also what happens when it decides to leave and we'll ask why is amazon building microwaves powered by alexa and what is with all the robots it's built and of course we'll tackle. The biggest question of our time is amazon tubek nick too powerful land of the giants from recode and the vox media podcast network new episodes come out every tuesday. Listen and subscribe gripe for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcasts at julia alexander's here. Welcome julia yeah thank you. I'd like to begin this discussion. He plays your voice. I don't know i i was trying to do like a stream moore's have begun. O war has never changed chancellor pulpit teen boys. I don't know what all right. Julia just hit me. The disney owns the i._p. For help eighteen yeah okay. I knew that like in my if you'd asked me i would have told you that was true but it wasn't emotionally real till just now i i think we we do a lot of disclosures on the show and i feel very strongly that i should just start predisposing and disney disclosure like disclosure disney will soon yeah you as you know soon. There will be one company <hes> disney. We'd like to welcome our new overlords disclosure <hes> <hes> we will be good subjects anyway. It was busy earnings this week. Yes jill you. Cover the hell out of him. I think it is wild. That disney has gone from a company whose earnings the verge. I did not really pay attention to to now like we gotta be on it yeah and you wrote like three or four pieces about them because they implicate so much of what's going on in the streaming wars and consumer stuff so give us run yes. There's so much talk about with disney but there's two stories right so there's the story that disney missed their earnings gas like that. They they've thought they were gonna do way better than they did and they blamed fox for that specifically. They blamed <hes> dark phoenix which was an excellent movie which c._e._o. Gallagher was like it just didn't do what we thought it was gonna which like everyone could have told them that <hes> but they basically say we bought this company and this is our first quarter where we've really owned them and so we're seeing is kind of what we assumed was going to happen because it costs so much. They weren't producing as much the we thought they were going to do. <hes> <hes> that's one story. That's like the financial story but on the other side of it. You've got the more interesting one which is that disney crossed eight billion dollars at the box office already this year which is insane <hes> base off of like six movies and disney is ramping up entirely sock to do streaming and just gesturing like that is their number one focus. Can you put the eight billion box office in context because like we have like tech earnings apple just sneezes an eight billion dollars in cash. That's out so like how big a deal is it for eight billion in the box office. Yeah i mean it's huge because it's not even we're eight months and not even a year they did seven billion last year our total enslaved able in already and they still have two major movies which is frozen to end star wars ride skywalker come out which will both cross a billion <hes>. They're gonna make more than ten billion dollars a share which is the biggest record your biggest on record for any studio in the history of cinema. It's not fair 'cause they bought all the other studios. Yeah it's like. I don't know if ford in g._m. Like merged. They bought nissan. They're like we sold more cars than anyone. It's like you didn't. It's just like a bad comparison well. The interesting thing is if you look back far enough what they did with movies. They're doing with streaming which is extremely smart right so back. Disney realized crap. We're not making any. We're not making movies. People wanna see eh. There was a period after the ninety s <hes> up until about two thousand and six thousand seven when disney was making a lot of garbage so what was the the bear movie mm-hmm the country bears yeah. I don't even remember. I don't even remember fell off the radar. Yeah i remember country bears but then buyer comes in a c._e._o. And he decided once things he <unk> buys a bunch of companies where he thinks he can make tiny networks out by his lucasfilm pixar <hes> and you by someone else i can't remember fox and his whole thing is like we can make networks that crate franchises that will then powers through so what we've seen happen. Happen is marvel studios become one of the biggest <hes> properties in the world in terms of i._p. Then you've got the pixar and their sequels <hes> and then disney was just like screw it. Let's just make live action. Remakes of all of our ninety move all of our popular nineties movies which have all cost like a billion dollars box office. Disney is doing now with streaming is the exact same thing just bought fox so that they can have a huge back catalogue to propel disney plus and hulu and then they bundled that with e._s._p._n. Pian plus and now they have all these little micro networks that they can sell at a very good price for and basically beat out the competition. Where was the other big big. Announcement right was that you can get disney plus hulu e._s._p._n. Plus for twelve ninety nine month right and so it's <hes> who lose ad supported version russian so it's not ad free the number one thing people ask me on twitter was. Why can't i pay twenty bucks month not have ads yeah. I also got. Can i pay twelve dollars in just get hulu lou without ads and disney no e._s._p._n. E._s._p._n. Plus weekly doesn't have sportscenter it might as well be the ocho yeah okay. There's but not a lot of like live major league sports. Disney genetically has to prop up e._s._p._n. Like they don't for so long every the thing. The disney made money on was like forcing forcing you to have e._s._p._n. Yeah they can't not like they don't know how span is like once they go international which is the whole game plan <hes> they can just start working with international national sports teams to sell that international markets towards leagues and that's a huge lake market growth market for them so so we just just to be clear about the answers to those both of those questions is no korea so at least not now i my guess is that there eventually eventually will be different options. 'cause streaming is going to become cable. <hes> it which means <hes> you're gonna have tears that you can subscribe to choose also. There's just nothing smarter than putting out the thing having having everyone asks for something slightly different and then delivering slightly different yeah. That's a great place to be. We listened yeah. Exactly exactly i mean is this on twitter like right now. It's super super smart because they have three revenue options for like one product which is insane like no matter what you want to go in on. They're going going to make revenue off of it so it works out to their benefit really well right now. Could you go back and connect the dots on disney buying all the other studios for are streaming and it's not just about the back catalogue rate. It's it's about they want to be able to make new shows based on the old i._p. Because they know it's right yes there's to suit in order for a streaming network to work a string service. There's a formula right so you have to have tentpole features which bring people in but they need snack will content which content is friends. It's the it's the office it's like. I'm gonna pay eight dollars. A month or whatever netflix is now twelve dollars month. I am paid twelve dollars a month. <hes> 'cause i wanna watch stranger things but then i'm going to keep paying hang because i just wanna fall asleep too few drama or the office disney. Has that better than anyone else going forward. Maybe maybe h._b._o. Max from warner media thea- which i know you know in terms of i._p. Disney is well situated so disney goes okay. <hes> come new are streaming service and you're gonna get a new star show a new <hes> captain america show <hes> kind of <hes>. You're gonna get. You're gonna get this plus. You're going to get seven thousand hours of all of our t._v. Shows an offer old movie almost overruled movies. That's something that netflix can't offer net flicks is losing all of their important license content so they're going come for stranger things and stay for stroz. Yes stay uh-huh which is essentially why netflix is facing this moment of like you know caller pulling like <hes> geez we corner just remembered adam sandlers murder mystery. Oh who did very well. It's netflix that movie which is not good was exactly perfect for having my inlaws over as like extremely safe adam sandler rom com that ended up being extremely safe haven it is exactly the thing that you think are there pratfalls there. Are probably i read this this thinking lately. That netflix seems to be heavily investing in stuff. That's sort like store brand content like around here that my local grocery store has flavor right and flavor peanut. Butter is almost exactly like jif peanut peanut butter. What isn't it's two dollars cheaper so that i w- jillian right around this time like netflix makes a bunch of stuff right and like that's the snack will the algorithm is like you sort of like <hes> shows you like h._d._t._v. Here's some australian h._g._t._v. nonsense that we license since unlike maybe it'll just like watch it for a while and that's the issue that that's the biggest issue right now that people are facing so there is the beginnings of a backlash on that we're seeing on twitter and instagram <hes> of all these creators <hes> all show owners being like netflix screwed us over and there's continuously screwing us over and it's because the algorithm so there's a show oh call to come birdie which is like a great great showed similar to bow jack horsemen <hes> it was recommended to like no one. It wasn't on the front. It was never on the homepage. It wasn't recommend to anyone. I'm someone who watches beau jack religiously because it's a sad show and it was not recommended to me like i'm the ideal target for it so when the show got cancelled after one season <hes> netflix basically said um netflix ways whether to renew something whether or not you can bring in new subscribers or retain subscribers subscribers were likely to cancel like those two major metrics <hes> when it couldn't do that the showrunner lisa handle what went on twitter and basically said the we can't beat the algorithm rhythm and then all these other show rents are like yep. This is an issue we bring up with net flicks all time. We don't know how your platform works no matter what you do. There's always opaque. Take algorithm that said well. That's the thing this story of the internet. Well tweeted valid. I've been covering you to for so long that for to see show runners who wants to deal with nielsen ratings and having a bad time slot on friday at eight pm now. They're they're the exact same complaints that youtube creators have have which is like we don't do this and we're going to have to start creating shows forgetting about content actually figuring out how to game an algorithm that we don't understand right which is fascinating sneezing so i knew that this like oh no there was another show that they canceled after two years the l._a. Well i was getting to that because i heard the i was good and i knew that there was like like this ambient fear that net flicks would cancel shows and i needed something to watch when i came to new york this week <hes> and it needs download something. Oh you know people like the. There's somebody somebody who i won't say who in case anybody who loves it who told me that was huge mistake as terrible show but whatever <hes> and so i watched it for the first time i went through three episodes and then the very next day cancelled and now what do i do because i'm like into the show i know it ends after seasons and they don't finish the narrative. What do i do well. The other thing about the netflix cancellation rates of the whole there was a report that was like netflix cancel shows after two seasons that they don't do what they needed to do. <hes> and a big part of that <hes> which i'm reading right now is that netflix doesn't the big thing that keeble relies on a lot which is one ads but to extend occasion and if they can't they can't keep a show. We're in for seven seasons and hopefully t._b._s. Picks it it up and they're like cool. We'll just make money off friends for the rest of our lives. <hes> netflix doesn't have that so netflix like h._b._o. Really need you to be invested in there like they really need you. You'd be turning in <hes> and whereas h._b._o. Can look at okay well. This many people tuned in linearity. This many people tuned in now. Afterwards is going to be watching a show we can. We you know there's not a netflix is reliant on an algorithm to like. Hopefully maybe people saw it but if they didn't they were not going to give it a chance to be discovered so i wanna just backup backup to disney for one. It's not talking about netflix on this because it is the only product that exists yeah like disney plus looming specter actor. That's coming. I believe it is a five on the scale of doom streaming services that like fifty five five yeah like goodness succeed the the only reason it's a five is because it hasn't launched and thus by definition could fail right like they could light it up like oh my god we forgot to write a user interface like it can happen between now and it launching but it feels very much like it will succeed right. It's disney. They've got the they've got their library. They've got their commitment to never having a new idea yeah right like what are new characters sure but but like that's very safe. Literally i mean probably your seems to know what he's doing. Yeah which is like the most dangerous thing you can say to juliet now now two hours about thacker definitely no. He's like they're going to win. Like that's the specter over the industry then there is all the stuff. That's leaving that flexible alexa she we're talking about. Some stuff is going back to max atv now tv now. Please eighteen go to plus. That's happening over there. Joke by a bunch of stuff is going to revert to to disney like right now. This is really really promoting a lotta marvel movies which is wild because they're all going. It's like get them all. You can just change their movies tab. They just added it back to their like apple t._v. App up at the they finally added movies ray now they only give you like three rows and then it's back to tv shows in the movie stab you wanna watch a movie on netflix. Now's your chance it's ever gonna happen for you again but none of its here yet yet i mean this is the thing so like the warriors. There's a term that we've used a lot right now. He's like streaming even worse the worst early kickoff and for another two years because all because of digital rights like all the rights are still tied up in various things so for example when disney plus us launches that will only have four marble movies and then by the first year it will have eight marvel movies. They're currently twenty three marble movies but because of the best one i meant i meant rights are tied up up in d. are so tied up in with a company called epochs because of a deal made in two thousand and ten and what that shows is that all these companies didn't realize streaming was going to be a thing netflix did very early on <hes> and now they're all scrambling to get their stuff back so that's why the hell out of my office will probably pay a lot of money for seinfeld warner media appeal on money for friends so there's there's all these things happening so string words. We don't really know it's gonna happen till the rights go back and then when they can say we have the harry potter collection. We have <hes> friends. We have all this stuff that we used to own <hes> dazzling. We'll start seeing like well. People want to pay sixteen dollars a month for h._b._o. Max what i'm confused fused about what i'd i'd love to like. Figure out is netflix before it has lost all the content before it is facing a competitor is losing subscribers in the united states in the united states and they're focused on international expansion which is crazy like for a variety of reasons like you can only unlock so many more people yeah like a good comparison this is apple which every year for years and years like every quarter record quarter why because launch to more countries and and then they they literally ran out of countries like the iphone sales are down because there's nowhere else to go there like a streaming service yeah. I hope he gets tamar soon because apple sales are flat. That's where they're at that cycle. That's the same path not flexes on and disney disney. Disney is also betting huge. I own the last earnings call that they want new scale extremely quick <hes> he called like disney plus the most important horton product. He's launched in his tenure at disney <hes> he's stepping down twenty twenty one and so that's a huge proclamation to make like disney's betting sperone streaming and they're betting super hard on international national and they're also betting everyone kind of forgets disney owns hulu so they're also being really hard on making hulu their h._b._o. They want f._x. To be h._b._o. F._x. wants to be h._b._o. <hes> and they're like cool. That's what you guys will be. We're going to have our own h._b._o. That we're going to sell the people <hes> having your own h._b._o. Uh-huh because i would remind a._t. Is aggressively diluting the idea right. It's actually very funny so <hes> there is an event. That's going on right now. Call the television critics association association conference <hes> and john landgraf. Who's the chief of f._x. Who is a brilliant man does <hes> an annual state of the union address and he's basically said the issue facing facing streaming platforms is that none of it is <hes> is curated. There's no identity to any of these streaming services which is true. Disney comes the closest because they have recognized by piece so what they want to do with that. Facts is basically say we're gonna. We're gonna increase your staffer. Gonna increase your oversight and then we're going to increase output and the difference that i can see from eighteen h._b._o. Based on what i'm reading. I don't actually based on what i've read a._t. And t. wants to amp up production on h._b._o. But doesn't want the oversight so which means. You're gonna garbage because it's like nowhere. Green-lighting things versus f._x. Wants to take over what h._b._o. Has and if they have the right staff if they have if they have the right people to amp production action actually look over and make sure it's good they could do that and that makes who very very exciting for disney so why is netflix losing subscribers united states now before before they're even facing this competition or they're. They've lost the content they don't. They don't have anything they have so that when they spoke about when i spoke with law subscribers they said that the big issue was one price increase they had a price increase and two. They had no spectacular content like they recall that out. There were like <hes> we don't. We don't have anything literally they were like next. Quarter will be great. 'cause we have stranger things but they very explicitly rely. There was nothing super exciting which is one hundred percent true and that's the issue that net flicks is running into. That's why they've become a lot more sombre. If you read a lot of like trade reports they the meetings they're having people have gone from being like the arrogant kids like arrogant wall street kids to being like ooh we <hes> we are now cable network and that means that we have to figure out are rising debt yet. We have to figure out how to bring a new shows that people are interested in <hes> which is why they're signing massive deals right. That's why they just gave the game of thrones critters. Two hundred million dollars for a total exclusive exclusivity deals going back. They're not any good without the books proven again and again and again like yeah yeah okay so you wonder h. E. let them because it's like. Why would you let them go. Watch the fucking show. They were like super interesting. The net flicks <hes> is basically facing. What disney is about face which isn't as told investors. Twenty twenty is going to be bad. It's not gonna be a twenty nineteen and you should be prepared for this because we don't have anything really <hes> in. We don't have any major marvel movies when up any early disney movies so it's like but the focus of that i think i wrote this was disney wants you. You're going to go to the movies theaters no matter what because it's disney but they would much rather use spend a dull eight dollars a month seven dollars month at at home like they want to grow. They want to grow <hes> to twelve million subscribers by december which to put that in context is twenty percent of net flicks is current u._s. market like that's that's a that's fast. That's like we're going to scale very quickly and hopefully they could totally do it. I think so too yeah we're bringing because they're going to have at least their own disney movies right yeah and they're also they've also changed a bunch of theatrical early system exclusive disney plus releases fox is now making exclusive disney plus things <hes> the rebooting a bunch of stuff for disney plus so the like they've basically streaming to us just as important <hes> ads film. I mean buyers prodigy is now overseeing streaming like it's as like the whistle note there was. I wish i was very clear. What what you're trying to say do immune prodigy. The old one is busy. Give me a call <hes> but yeah so it's it's exciting but it's interesting because we're about to see a drought and then in two or the three years. We're about to see more television than anyone has seen in a very long time so minutes where does h._b._o. Max plus max h._b._o. Eighteen intego house guard station i think h._b._o. Max is will you ever go nine this gal. I think it's like a ten okay because i think what is going to happen all all the h._b._o. Now subscribers will get looped into max <hes> so they started off pretty strong but i think what h._b._o. Has going for it. Is that it it is h._b._o. Oh so they're bringing in people all on that but plus they have the exclusive rights to odyssey w series which is a huge thing that netflix lost because the c._w. Shows or some of the most watched shows on ethics. They also do family content. See people were like oh. I would like tortilla with my kids around and i would like to give them shows. There's two there's two things but i think there's enough with each max going into it both the movie side and the side that people go to a movie said anything warner brothers an extensive anything warner brothers so hopefully yeah yeah. That's it the ever popular we'll be available to you. This the releasing listeners get people. Were sign up for personally. Come your house depress. You have nothing else to do. Kill hill message you on video and tell you about doing no. He'll message. Eighteen proprietary manatt encrypted chat app pre installed on your phone i. I don't think it's going to be a successful netflix or successful as disney dulcimer going international but i think it will be way better than n._b._c. Younese streaming service which their whole author whole strategy is we have the office which is a bad strategy yeah and the the it's. It's if you don't have cable. It's definitely still worse yeah. It's not great disclosure cast in the best friend blocks media which owns the verge sooner or later will be owned by disney. We welcome our insect overlords. It's hard to imagine people getting bored of watching amazing tv but you think there will be a tail off in people watching okay television yeah so there's a really great quote by john. Landgraf which is that there's never been more television than there is right now and all that means is that great t._v.'s being overlooked and more mediocre t._v.'s being produced and his whole thing is like there are the last count his five hundred and thirty scripted series so right now and that doesn't count for reality and so it's interesting to think about like the amount at doesn't account for qube which my gross oversight action and i think people will wash perspective finish the thought passion i i lost. I'm pretty sure julia has adopted the position. That could be successful. Jeffrey katzenberg is the qube ironman tube streaming services with your skull g._m. Sir church but it's also interesting thing about the fact that both disney and netflix didn't call out each other on recent calls. It didn't call out mix. They called youtube. They said we want you to that's what we want. Which is an insane thing to want because it's free and it's user generated content so it's not anything comparable but that's what they're thinking size-wise like. That's what what they want. They want to be the size of the sides of youtube which is are they aware that youtube skill is causing enormous problems. I mean clearly haven't learned algorithm issue think they're paying attention okay well. I think you should write this story. <hes> netflix traitors have the same problems as youtube creators tweeted it. That's the that's the issue. She tweeted it. I got on slack deandre said you should put that on the site and she said yeah but something something and i said i referred to my previous statement. We can get argument busy very busy. I just think it's fascinating that it appears as though there's already this it's like collateral damage from the streaming wars. These companies like they're. They're rethinking how they work. Their subscribers are moving around their earnings aren't where they think they should be like a disease missing its own guidance because it feeds starphoenix is the even washing the trailer as the only time. I'm gonna watch this movies. He's on an airplane. Airplane movie like i've always thought no news is bad idea that we have movie rating scale in the moving rating scales should just be where where were you watch. This guess like is theater. Movie is pay for it in the first window. Is it wait the extra annoying week for it to be a rental. Is that sooner or later. It will be a net like syndicated or is it like just wait for. It's at the seat back. I read somewhere in there. You need to put like like playing nonstop on like t._n._t. Yeah you will always watch the middle third of this movie yeah. You will never really know what happened. In the first half hour. I wrote a whole opinion piece and to date. It is probably one of the pieces that made people the angriest was just that the boss baby is the best airplane movie because it's a great ask the boss baby so what happens. What should people be looking out for in this remorse because there's like a flood the news well. What are the what's the key thing you should look out between november and april because we've got one two three four services launching so including qube including quincy in april april sixth exc the date in my head you zero on the scales of streaming services. I think thank you a clear success. Where's your money going disney plus this once they get to all right. That's enough to brian. Hello does the client the co founder and editor large a box and host of the show podcast this show we're trying to get big thinkers big names to reflect a bit on the hard questions work poses in public so we talked to mark zuckerberg berg about whether he can govern facebook facebook even governable with a community of more than two billion people all around the world in every different country you know how can you set up a more our democratic or community oriented process to elizabeth warren about what her plan is to pass all these ambitious plans got going straight up the middle on the corruption in plans the first one knock him back and while they're all scrambling then start passing the rest up to stacey abrams about how she purchase identity politics and what she thinks that really means means the phrase identity politics is a weaponization of democrats structural advantage elections from now to eternity. He's gone sancho for free on apple podcast. When your favorite podcast hello listener. I'm sean rama's firm host of today explained. Vox is daily news podcast every day monday through friday my team and i look at what's happening in the world we pick one essential news story that defines our moment and ask ask smart people to help us understand it in about twenty minutes or less. It's the perfect way to start or end. Your day subscribed today explained for free on apple podcasts or on your favorite podcast app. It's from stitcher and the vox media podcast network all right paul <hes> every week man. Dan consistency embodied personified. What's it called. It's called. Sorry can't pass the jewel because of cybersecurity okay. I wanted to talk about yeah. Okay so obviously because i talked about this concept on the verge cast a a year ago or so joel is launching a bluetooth e cigarette that tracks how much you vape. I think this is really important and good for these vaping keeping products to tell you how much nicotine you're getting in especially if you want to taper off but even if you don't you're not increasing year addiction <hes> so that's cool. I'm very excited about that. Ah that's wild also it has some security features that you can easily lock your veep right yeah that really cool and that got me thinking so so from watching tick tock. I've discovered that almost all of the teams are vaping and vaping because it's really easy to pass ju- around so and if you don't own the jewel and this is the memo tick tock. Can you pass the jewel and so what i'm saying is his add biometric security or just a fingerprint sensor so that you have to actively have your fingerprint on the jewel right so in your friend a friend who is by the way neither of you should be vaping. I'm just saying i'm just. I'm just trying to solve the problem that we are faced with right now. Friend wants the jewel and you say sorry. I can't because of cybersecurity and because you'd have to like hold up to their mouth with the fingerprint i assure you this will not what stop nicotine adults. That's a great idea because it'll be you know like you can't have the sweet moment where you like share with over you. Hold the jewel for all. This is bad. Teams are the greatest threat to american democracy. You're you're s._o. Might get this might yes. You're right. This might be romance s._o. So on my show rank. You can watch it too much. Take stock this might be romantic but for any of your friends who are asking you to pass the jewel tool and they're not even your best friends. You might have a good is what you say jewel yeah this complicated technology stack when you're sorry i have a blue bubble the your god here. The thing about the smart jewel in particular is the problem they're trying to solve is kids are addicted to nicotine yeah right and they keep denying that like a major part of their business. Business is selling jewels two teenagers right though like we would never do that ever in then. They've released this product. It's like it's a bluetooth vape. The parents can lock from their teens and we'll tell you all this stuff and it's like all of that is to get you to buy another jewel so that your kids will stop using the jewel in the way they could really solve. It is by stop selling the jewels two teenagers. I love it. I it's like the perfect evil corporation move <hes> mhm where they're like. Oh this car might hurt you. The solution is to buy a new car yeah not we should never designed the bad car in the first the thing that i love is they need to solve the problem so they've created a connected bluetooth that collects a bunch of data and that's what i want is a company. That's funded primarily by big tobacco. It is big tobacco at this point now. Here's a bunch of data. We were just talking on the street. Moore's i would pay all diana month for a real time map of teens vaping just like in like like you know those those videos of like the sun over the earth yeah and you can see what parts of earth day moving just imagine that it's like vape clouds spreading over america like i would pay twelve nine for that that screensaver okay i mean that's like the purest dystopia in screen saver. Okay speaking to sopa apples listening to you. Everybody's listening. It occurs to me. I haven't asked samsung bixby. There's still listen to like one night a warehouse. I don't think he was asking about louis. They record everything and then they give it to contractors but the contractors are dogs. We learn anything grading data. Uh there's the one dude who's been asking him for the dog days straight and all the rest of the room. It's like they go on a series this is this is a real thing. All of the <hes> all of these digital assistants are recording your voice storing recorded versions of your voice on servers and allowing human contractors to occasionally listen to those recordings so that they can tell whether or not the thing worked yeah so amazon got caught. I and amazon's deal was like a bunch of people inside. Amazon shouldn't have access had access and we heard some stuff that bad so amazon. They created created a whole new portable for lissi. What all this stuff is that that you said and deleting it and you can even now ask alexa. Stop recording you or delete your last days recordings things or whatever then it happened to google google also has a portal where you can go and just delete stuff and it also happened to <hes> than apple apple does not have such a thing yeah apple. A is has a blind spot in my opinion because they think everything happens on device. It's totally secure cure and so it doesn't occur to them that you would need to provide you like a privacy dashboard because i why would we need to give your privacy dash. We don't know shit. There's nothing to manage yeah except there is because they're saving saving recordings. If your voice yeah now you can now go and like say. I don't want like amazon has the option don't be created by humans google. I believe has that option now. Yes it does does and <hes> series just they just stopped doing it and they just put it on pause probably because they don't know how to make a button to turn it off in order to turn off siri. What you have to do is turn off the way you turn on siri so you have to turn off the button and turn off the <hes> hey siri and then you need to go into the keyboard settings and turn off dictation and then as you do that a possible warning saying hey you're gonna lose a bunch of stuff now and then it deletes your data in there now when you upload your stuff gets uploaded to apple's cloud anonymous from you so i think it keeps like voice recognition data. Maybe it connects to you. I don't fully know the whole story here but my understanding is you you know with hashes or something. My hands are waving. You can see that if if you delete all the series stuff it can get rid of the stuff that's on the survey was anonymous from you in the first place somehow that could happen so i just want to be clear the reason they're doing this. Young is well intentioned. They wanna make sure they're chit works right so you say alexa ornella in alexa guests up and you got it wrong. He said again and at some point some human reviewer gets a random assortment of alexa commands that didn't work. It didn't work yeah and it it tries to figure out it she they try to figure out what went wrong fix alexa yup right in that training the process is important to how the model works and that training process. You know it's like it's not the best job so ends up going to contractors and then you start having like the levels of remove of control and oversight over who's listening voices and by the way the way that this got discovered is literally a contractor leaking stuff yeah to believe a dutch newspaper yeah so like that's the nightmare scenario yup is the contractor took the voice recordings away yep in showed them to somebody yes but contrary to amazon and google position that yes we love spying on you and we are working on being better at not spying on you as much therefore we're offering some control apple seems to not want anybody to know that like the this feels like a big betrayal to me because apple will his position itself as the privacy company advertising as the privacy company and if they don't put a button like set like maybe they're just waiting until they have the software but if they just say we'll just never tell our customers that this happen because look what the button says is. If you don't unchecked this then we will listened listened to recordings of you so that would involve admitting to their customers. They all have very fuzzy ways of defining what this human grading is because there's two levels of it. There's the do you will you allow humans to listen to it or not in order to improve our services and whatever amazon actually played some board games initially. Were there like <hes> it it will be. Do you wanna do you wanna use your voice to help us improve new services and you're like no don't and the cool then it'll be done but the did you hear what i said. Do you wanna use your voice is to help us improve new services on checking. The button only turned off human review to optimize for new things they made. It didn't even move you for other stuff. Oh my god so there's a human review side of it. The human grading side the second part is <hes>. Is your voice being stored on their servers full stop. Can you like delete it or can you you tell never to get uploaded in the first place <hes> between <hes> apple amazon and google only one of those companies gives you the option to never have your voice. We save on its servers. Which one do you think it is. Google google picked the one that seemed the least likely i don't. I'm like once you turn on the assistant it records so i'm gonna just take this reduction like all. This leaked every company's doing it. It all got found found out because journalists asked i think apple rush out its announcement because a bunch of journalists including us were asking over and over and over again. These policies didn't really add up but here's my thing and i i just going to keep coming back to this. Nobody knows <hes> right like the we're doing. This is buried in terms of service agreement that you like bang through when you set up a phone or you buy a google home. No one reads the terms of service agreement even if you do they're worded in such a way that they they collect consent. Yeah i'm air quoting here. They collect consent from you and they say everyone's consenting to this practice but like it's impossible to understand what the practice actually is. Don't play my voice to strangers. It just seems like if you phrased it that way. Baby more people would say no but they need some people to say yes to make it better. This is all l. buried like there's no way that people are actually consenting to this and the concept that it's anonymous is obviously pseudonym is really yeah. It's your voice. The people were clearly can be correlated with your device i._d. Because there's a way to delete it so i just to me. The issue is sort of less. Are they all doing it. What are the what are the granular granular. Keep covering story there. Obviously they're feeling some pressure to get better but if they are feeling that pressure if the reveal of the thing makes them. Stop doing doing it right like that's the pattern that we're in revealing that it's happening makes them like stop. They should know like then. It should be obvious it's the you should ask way more directly and make way more obvious if simply saying hey. This thing you're doing is happening and they're like no. We'll stop. Stop apple asks if i think all these companies asked you wanna send this crash report right yeah. How is that any less sensitive than of recording transcription of text message. I'm sending yeah. I think honestly well because with a computer crash for like there's a u._i. Bright yeah. There's there's also like what's in the log. Am i going to read the log. Quick put into the crash awards. Actually according roy's screaming crashed i. I just think there's something about these particular where the surveillance potential is so high. The user fear of that surveillance is high. Yeah it's not yet it doesn't yet outweigh the convenience of having smart speaker right because that's pretty fun <hes> but the underlying the f._b._i. Is listening to me me me is it's like their facebook listening to me all the time right like everyone believes it whether or not it's true yeah if you can access back into it with a contractor leaking into newspaper a bunch of recordings of people what you should maybe rethink that and maybe ask i mean this is like the steve jobs go privacy. What does privacy you ask you ask and you ask again and you just keep asking because you cannot collect that consent once right people change their lives like fluid wit idea of what privacy is yeah and none of them are good at asking and all them rely on extremely opaque terms of service agreements that i'm gonna tell you right now. I think should be illegal. Wow i think they should be legal. What's the alternative to a terms of service <hes> privacy regulations and i. I don't mean to yeah 'cause i think my answer to everything is the government. I don't think our government has like that great like do i want to turn that power over to this government do not yeah but i mean in a very abstract way. An individual user does not have a meaningful differentiate between different products is terms of service at the point of purchase your in a best spy. There's no information in front of an alexa google home. That's like here are the settings for amazon. Not storing your voice like you have the information you don't even see the thing until you get home and plug it in what about in the market information to make that decision and no one's a lawyer known reads. It should any yeah so like woo hoo how do you how do you express that like the the will of the people. It's like well. We're just gonna negotiate as a group with these companies happenings in like that looks like here's what we will accept and here's what we won't accept and we've just go to fatten law. Here's what you can do and what you can't do. What if the siamese very abstract way i i do not think like donald trump shirted privacy regulations that ula in terms of service exists because they need to collect those concerns there need to collect those consents 'cause they wanna do stuff because they don't wanna get sued. It's like fundamentally. They don't wanna get sued well. No like there's like mostly internet cannot exist without some amount of copyright licensing right right so if you take a photo on your phone and you want to back it up inherently in you haven't even publishing i mean put it in the world world right inherently apples. Gotta make a copy. It's got to go to an i cloud server. They've gotta make another copy that to back it up redundantly then if they want to a ship it to your if they wanna put message. They want to ship it to somebody else chain. They've inherently made yet another fifty copies of the thing so like just to operate that i'm i'm going to take a photo. It's gonna get automatically backed up to my cloud and i'm going to text it to someone. Apple needs like fifty five copyright licenses from you or a blanket copyright licence so is that like normal like every service and then consider instagram which has to like take far more permissions from you so like okay like i kinda by like in order order to do that like should we have started with a government copyright law and licensing scheme or should these services have developed right right but i think now. They're like exist. We understand dan them. It's one thing to say hey. You're putting your personal information in the lincoln. Lincoln might share it or re promote it and he'd be like screw it. I don't wanna use lincoln and like the features are somewhat apparent to you yeah so there's a relationship there with privacy like it is just absolutely opaque and you have no idea what's going on in their motivation is to hide it and it doesn't turn into a feature like privacy isn't a feature. That's why apple market it all the time right. It's the phones operate. The same whether or not google is watching everything you do on android or whether apple is like making it's kind of. I mean there's there's also the tough edge. Cases are like <hes> <hes> i was listening to an interview with develop who who interviewed facebook and so it was like okay well play around with their a._p._i.'s and see what i can do before i get this interview and when he realized that facebook messenger showed nearby and that that information while not saying specifically where people are could be correlated with other information relatively easy to say exactly where people are win and create a map of where all your friends are which is obviously and so in facebook mad at him and they give him the job and they fixed that but that was a that was a flaw right and so that's the sort of thing that <hes> maybe the ula indemnify is that the right word like yeah protects facebook from me suing them for being bad at their job <hes> when face in front of congress for many times they've been in front of congress. One of the things that they got asked was like. How many times have you change your terms of service agreement right. It's like hundreds hundreds. If not thousands of times they make little tweets that in and you just click. Yes like the i tunes. Terms of service became a meet my late night. Comedians are talking about it because apple's. I constantly tweaking it around the edges now. Do any of those specific tweets mean anything to you like no. Are you effectively signing a new contract. Every time time you do that absolutely you are. That's like to me like we're just at a point particularly when we're talking things like they retain the right to take recordings of your voice. Jason let other people listen to them. Even if the intention is good in the outcome makes service better you shouldn't be able to hide that and one of these agreements right absolutely absolutely mentioned to just be legal right like that. The market cannot speak to that enough because next month love apple might change. Its agreement back in like we like. It's on us and it's our job. I'm happy to do it. It's on us to like scan the agreement and write the headline jenner right the outrage cycle and they show like that's. I think that's just a bad cycle. That's a bad process for protecting people's privacy versus. Hey we've made some rules and we understand it. Do you think there could be something like the creative commons license where like i have like an alternative ula like if if a company presents me with the ula like actually i would prefer this ula and it's like you know so what are you. What are you fundamentally describing describing it in like you are not allowed to negotiate like who who signs a con- like everyone does it and they shouldn't but like you're not supposed to sign a contract without a lawyer reading it and like making sure it's a pro. You know what i mean like. You're supposed to negotiate. You're not supposed to take the first offer. You're supposed to fight for yourself but that's how i feel with these cookies if they say you want cookies i wanna say you know unless i am deep into the process of logging in or buying something from you yeah well. I mean that's that's what i mean like. I think we can are you a lot about the g._d._p. Are like it is a question about how effective it's been and like whether it's actually stopping some stuff whether it's benefiting the incumbents or whether it's opening up the markets like good arguments on both sides there but at least it's their right like there's now a framework in the european union for like how they talk about your privacy what they should offer you <hes> up to your point websites in european union when they say <hes>. Do you want cookies not if you say no. They are required to still provide a service right they can't they can't block you because you don't want their cookies. That's great right like you can't get that from like a collective action market solution right like you have to just say it's the the law so like i think that's coming. We talked with a lot. I just every time i hear this stuff about siri and alexa all i think about is there's no way hey anybody knew this was happening. In the second they found out that the second was revealed. All these companies scramble the change it. That's an indication. They knew they were doing some stupid right. It wasn't we we're gonna fifty blog post justifying it and there's more and more hype and eventually like you know the celebrity tweets about how they hate it in like now taylor swift matt and then i you know what i mean like. There's that version of the story but then there's the would actually happen. Which is the second hand out about. What are bad that those are the biggest companies in the world. They shouldn't get off that easy. Have you turned out theory. No google assistant alexa books anyway awesome okay. I will say that i have set all my google stuff to their auto. Delete settings yeah whatever the strictest one is three months. <hes> i feel does your ultimate that turned everything i could off on google except i guess i haven't turned off assistant. <hes> eddie ever use series so there's no dangerous in the weird thing is like the the companies had probably are the worst at doing stuff of their data. Have the best controls keep getting caught. Yeah that's exactly right now. Maybe that's the solution. We'll just keep catching them. Actually phobia respect for all the solution is to abandon them and allow them to to to wither away. Yeah i mean that's it's the market solution. The problem is that they're giant monopolies control like eighty percent of all advertising dollars in america like open open source software open hardware stuff that you can audit stuff that it doesn't send telemetry back to a centralized server decentralized services as much as possible like i think it's one of those things like no matter what laws are added to the situation. I think it's something that it's going to ultimately be on us to try to protect ourselves from it sure you should also build your car and run better but the the problem is people are busy. It's true. I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you. I'm a computer nerd. I've i did all those. Things are a long time <music>. That's not why they got popular like. I wish there was some market dynamic. That made this better but obviously right what i want. I want competition but there is competition. Russian three biggest companies in the world like four cortana got to study to like the forty companies a roller competing cortana got caught loss stuff on skype translate which is like direct actual conversations. People are having voices like a whole other thing. They're competing every metric privacy and that's wild to me anyhow yeah. I don't mean to keep ranting about it. It's just after we got through. The things are actually happening to me that the bigger issues no one is giving meaningful consent to this kind of crap okay. I'm gonna say it because it's true. I have the apple card. It's a it's a credit card. <hes> as a <hes> a nice app apple really wants to be the default yeah. That's it. I i don't <music>. I'm going to try to review. It doesn't make you feel richer makes you feel like have another crack. Definitely not have very many credit cards to like always pay pat on time right like that. I hear my dad's voice in my head so i know there are people out there who love their credit card shuffle like do all the point stuff snapped me <hes>. I wish i did like it feels like i don't know how to do a scam. You know right yeah kinda wish. I also wish i knew how to juggle like there's a lot of stuff. I wish i in fact <hes> keep you up at night every now and again. I try to juggle doesn't it might still do you know so how to how to learn to juggle. Is you do it with the <hes> racquetball's 'cause they bounce so you don't have to bend over and pick up. All the juggling balls made some racquetball's maksim. Gonna learn how to juggle. That's a good thing you do kid right. She's only one and a half. She's not gonna be any good at it took but one day that's that's my main. Goal is right up there with good at math juggling ability. I will say one thing that makes me sad about the aba card is there's more than one thing the to the main thing. Is that like it definitely ties ties you to an iphone like you know your iphone customer for ever and ever <hes> it's a year of the credit card or i message or mess the card in particular killers like but like all the stuff that they do it makes it easy to pay the app and the budgeting is so much better than minutes yeah <hes> it's a beautiful thing yeah and the the fact that that's only limited apple cart purchases like oh well. Maybe someday they'll just apple should just take over all of finance. I disagree disagree. Here's what i want. I i mentioned that i wrote about it. You can read the post. We have to figure out how to review it. I'm i i don't think the virgins in the business of viewing credit cards like we're not going to review you like an amex card next you know like but it's interesting it is fundamentally. Technology product. Just tweeted me. Let me know what you want to know what the apple cards can figure out what to do with it next besides <unk> by skiff gazing at it could get to should <hes> you should buy the reverse charges like amex is really good adler fraud credit for the company the story they're like yeah that sucks will handle it and then and <hes> don't don't don't do crimes all right okay. Please suggest what you want me to do except for crime. I'm interested in what you want to know from from like verge perspective. I'm sure their credit card. We know a bunch of people work the points guy. I'm sure they're going to do a great job. Reviewing the card is a credit card <hes> <hes> <music>. I'm much more interested in what you want to about the tech side of it okay. We're way over time would be averse cast of you didn't say it we. I really wanted to be short this week and we weren't season valley wide. You push that button here. It's great usually listen to it. Ashlin kaelin did a great job. There producer andrews our producer. He did a great job to recode. Media is also great this this week with peter. He's got ta lawrence on the show. Taylor's like a friend of the verge cast friend of the version excited about that goes new. It's really fun. You can tweet at me. I'm reckless theater. It's backline. Thanks android is slow. No god paul future. Paul tweeted us. We love your feedback. We'll see you next week. Breckenridge paul kennedy yeah from the roads cast. If you're interested in companies like amazon wants learn learn more about the retail business and i think you're gonna want to attend recode's latest conference. It's called code commerce to two day event that takes place in new york on september ninth and tenth featuring candid conversations with the most important people in commerce today recode scare swisher and jason del ray will be talking to walmart ceo ecommerce mark laurie marne levin leads partnerships for or facebook instagram and the co founder cove harry's jeff raider actually didn't know that the khasiev areas was named jeff raider. That is a great name. He'll be onstage with jason and cara era. You have a chance to visit. The most innovative retailers delivery hubs in the city code. Commerce is a must attend event for tech and retail executives incredible insight into latest automation payments direct consumer brands and more this conference always sells out security spot now events dot rico dot net slash verge once again. That's events dot rico dot net slash verge. Hey jason doray and i'm hosting a new podcast land of the giants season. One is called the rise of amazon and it's about how how jeff bezos turned. What was a little online bookseller into one of the biggest companies of our time. We'll ask why amazon building microwaves powered by alexa alexa and why is it making these robots and we'll tackle the biggest question of our time is amazon too big too powerful. The end of the giants from recode in the vox media podcast network new episodes come out every tuesday. Listen and subscribe for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite great podcast app.

samsung disney google mac netflix microsoft twitter disney youtube anna bixby apple bixby amazon qualcomm alexa Julia alexander new york
Charlie bit my finger, now pay me!

Reset

22:44 min | 1 year ago

Charlie bit my finger, now pay me!

"Monday afternoon. It's four o'clock in the old days I would be at my desk and I would be watching the Google earnings release getting ready for the earnings call. Peter Kafka is a senior correspondent at recode. Stop doing that because those calls boring finally Google other android continues to try. I'm proud to announce that over eighty eighty billion dollars boring for me and it's my job to pay attention to them. So what I normally do go. I want to ignore it. If something big happens I'll find out later and I'll come back to it. Sure sure enough. I end my meeting that I'm having at five o'clock go to twitter and all the other reporters who are covering go. Oh Shit Youtube. According to Youtube to thank generated more than fifteen fifteen billion dollars in ad revenue last year alone. It's the first time. Youtube has revealed figures from ads today on the show. The business of Youtube. What fifteen billion dollars means in light of Youtube history and what that number signals for the future of the platform and youtubers everywhere? I'm Ariel. We'll do mocks. So what exactly was the number that they released just on Monday. Fifteen billion dollars last year in AD revenue about another three billion in revenue from things. Don't really ad-supported that selling subscriptions to Youtube. TV The and they also have an ad free version of Youtube. A music service so really. It's eighteen billion dollar company. They finally for the first time ever told us how big youtube is big guessing and how big it was and now we know and that's a big deal. It is a big deal little because we youtube is really important business business. It's a really important cultural institution It's just a giant landmark on the Internet. And now we get a little bit of sense of how important it is to Google Slash Alphabet as well okay. So fifteen billion. Is that what Google takes home note. Google gives at least half of the revenue they bring in to the people who supply the content. That's the comcast castle the world and that's the influences of the world and everyone in between if you put stuff up on Youtube and Youtube makes money from it. They are giving at least half that money back. Act Two you do. We actually know how much money is going back to creators or is it a little bit more of a guess all you two would say is more the majority of their revenues and because on this kind of person actually called a the good folks at Google yesterday and said just to be clear. That's more than half right. And they said yes so at a minimum seven point five billion in dollars Could be well more than that because some companies get better deals than others so Google's version of Youtube has been around for at least fourteen years. Why release released the numbers now for the first time? Why haven't they done this before? So the informed speculation On a Credit Ben Thompson Ridge. The Great Strategic Sherie newsletter is that this is actually actually a result of center for China becoming. CEO of Alphabet the SEC. Who Actually is meaningful in? This case has been pushing Google Slash alphabet let to provide more disclosure about businesses. They famously give almost no information to investors and certain shrug. Everyone's okay with it and there's an argument that WHO says Larry Page is see you of alphabet. But he doesn't actually see the youtube number so he can't put them it's it's very confusing does not pass the BS asked test at all in any case Thought by Banham I'M GONNA credit him. Here is is by putting in numbers for Youtube Google's cloud business which is pretty significant. It heads kids off of a fight with the SEC. And this is the way for them to provide minimal disclosure but still satisfy a regulator. Okay so previously. They were explaining away their lack of disclosure by saying even our CEO doesn't know this number what you're GonNa do so you had Wall Street analysts guessing at numbers numbers for years it turns out a lot of them are pretty high. A lot of them thought was doing thirty. Billion Twenty one billion so the numbers actually a little lower than people are guessing but again they were just guess okay and now because sooner Pichai is the new CEO of alphabet they have to disclose it because he did know the number. That is what we think. That's interesting so what was the reaction to that fifteen billion dollar number it's funny I think a bunch of people said that's a big number and then the analysts said numbers little smaller than we thought and everyone moved on because people are so inured to crazy numbers coming out of Google and facebook FACEBOOK that sixty seven billion dollars in advertising numbers that that mere mortals literally can't comprehend. I focused on the idea that they were passing out this money to the media companies and to individual creators because that to me is pretty significant again and this was a non business in two thousand six. This was the reason people made fun of Youtube and said this is dogs on skateboards. Because that's what they were doing. They were doing dogs on skateboards. My Day at the zoo was their first video via elephants coping. What these guys? It's really really really long. Aw that's cool. Three people knew about them was because they take. SNL video and Puerto just nothing. It was just a grab bag of weird video at a time when it was still pretty hard to stream video on the Internet. And the idea that it's this huge thing that with two billion users and fifteen billion dollars a year in revenue it's pretty staggering. If you just think about where it was so can you take me back a little bit. How did Youtube Star? Basically there's three guys Steve Chen Chad Hurley. Jared Kerim in two thousand five put this bare bones website that can barely leave stream videos. It does it better than lots of other people do. We're trying to stream video back in two thousand and five. You might remember the required concept plug ins if you wanted to a stream something they needed to know. What kind of computer you were using Youtube made all that much simple takes off like a rocket ship sequoia puts in some money sequoia capital puts in some money? Yeah and they're really small company when they get acquired little eighteen months later by Google for one point six five billion dollars and that seemed like a ton of money at the time. Tone of money It's this was sort of after my space had been bought and you started to see sort of big Internet companies and big media companies. Start to pay attention to the Internet. We we were a few years past the Internet The first dot com boom and then bust were a lot of big media companies. Had Oh man we are glad we don't pay attention to the Internet anymore. It turns out that was all bullshit so two thousand two thousand two thousand five thousand six hundred. Maybe this could be something we could use. Maybe we get advertiser take our TV shows there or maybe they're going to pirate are TV shows. That's a real problem. This is what a lot of the big media. Companies are concerned about so youtube spends the first few years as private private company and then owned by Google. Hammering out deals with the big media companies. Some cases gets sometimes figures out how to pay them extremes. It's figuring out how to pay. Hey them as a percentage of ad revenue eventually get to this model. Were you put your stuff up here. We give you a cut of the ad revenue. Then they extend that program to the with. They called a youtube partner program right which is a way to give some the early users of youtube who were celebrities on Youtube. These were just generally guys sometimes girls. I have a Webcam in their bedroom and make weird ass video bare bones very bare bones and this is the way it is for you to start sharing money with them. Eventually for some of these people people becomes a real business. Youtube extends that pretty broadly by two thousand twelve. And that's the business model we more or less have today pulled back a little bit made it a little harder order for some of the most extreme or less well-known people making videos to make money but that's generally the model the way that model evolved loved it kind of sounds like youtube didn't actually know that that was going to be the business model just as it was starting out no. I don't think they really knew. I think they thought there was going to be. Advertising involve evolve run when they were getting sold to Google. They were starting to put banner ads on the site. And there's a great video. I love of Steve Bannon Chad Hurley. Look like they're stoned or drunk. Maybe maybe they're just tired from lack of sleep. After selling the company to Google Youtube was chatting state where the CO founders of the site and. We just wanted to say thank you today okay. We have from exciting issue. We acquired by Google at thanks announcement to the public. It's GonNa be great but all their concerns are about up time and keeping the servers running in the community because even though gray was really big thing then it was tiny and I and do his tiny kind of for for nerds and people who got the Internet was not ubiquitous. And so they're sort of speaking to this. Relatively oh totally small community of people who are into Youtube and of course now is just. Youtube is like running water right. It's just utility okay. So does youtube business business model. The what you just described the advertising is that working for you too. Yeah it's fifteen billion dollars worth of ads in significant. There was a long debate about when and would you to be a significant part of Google's business. It is clearly there and I'm one of the people who think that Youtube fundamentally can't police itself because because it has this platform structure anyone could upload anything anyone can look at it and Youtube will look at it once. It's up there to try to take down the worst stuff right away but it's you know they're just uploading five hundred hours of content per minute. It's crazy to me. That seems not sustainable but it clearly is the also thing that allows them to generate fifteen billion dollars worth of ads. You will occasionally advertisers saying I got a problem with you own. There's too much weird stuff there. I don't advertise. They're but they're throwing fifteen billion dollars a year and by the way that number was eight billion two years ago. How do we know it's doubled in two years? If this is the first time that Youtube has released these numbers they conveniently gave us three years of data. So if you think of all the crap that Youtube is taken over the last couple years about all the content problems about advertisers worrying about the money money just keeps flowing if nearly doubled that business in just two years and that's just the advertising part of it by the way you obviously seem to. This number is interesting and important. Why should the average average user of Youtube care about this? I think you should know how the thing you consume the thing you make the thing you buy whatever it is gets made and you should know how. So you're free service in particular gets to you. It gets to you because advertisers pouring fifteen billion dollars doesn't get to you by magic gets to you because because a bunch of people are putting the this business whether or not you think about it. You are participating in this business by watching video so you should know how that works Peter Kafka is senior correspondent. For recode he also hosts his own. PODCAST called recode media. Check it out to really know. Oh how youtube works. You have to examine it from the perspective of the people who make the videos you watch on Youtube. That's after the break. This is reset The best thing I heard from a CR- I spoke to was when youtubers I started creating content. They became accidental entrepreneurs. Julia Alexander is a reporter for the verge. She's had a lot of conversations with youtubers because for them when they started uploading a lot of them weren't expecting to be paid. They were uploading to Youtube. And the way that we upload to tick Talker instagram. The minute that Youtube started handing out avenue and that editor of new started to grow they became accidental entrepreneurs when it becomes your fulltime job so that the conversation summer season changes from. Hey I really love uploading content and making videos to. I'm being screwed over by this company that I never intended to work on or four in the first place so it's become a really interesting cultural shift. That has happened so incredibly fast. Like we're talking seven eight years Julia Alexander Zander you cover youtube and you wrote about this fifteen billion dollar figure that was announced this week and in your store you had a great line that I really liked and it read. Creators creators are the beating heart of Youtube but advertising is the blood that flows throughout so how have creators reacted to this fifteen billion dollar number. There's been a little bit of a mixture action but I would say the strongest is that now that they can see the fifteen billion dollar ad revenue. The biggest complaint complaint is. Why haven't we seen that? They want more of it. Is I think the best way to put it. They saw tim billion dollars in revenue and they said did we are the reason that has coming to your platform. We create the videos that bring viewers in and yet. I'm still struggling to pay rent or I'm still figuring out how to pay for meals so youtube give me more money okay. So content creators were like fifteen billion dollars. This is great. Why aren't we getting more? The feeling for a lot of the creators of coming in the last few years is we are driving one of the greatest And biggest video platforms sites on the Internet. Youtube is monopolized video-on-demand the on demand video on the Internet and that's all because of content creation that they put in only are they saying. Hey we deserve more. You need to give us more because we create the content that brings effort has to you. But they've also dealt with a lot of major issues that they're saying hey you've also kind of screwed us over a lot in the the last four years. What exactly do you mean when you say that creators are saying you've screwed us over the last four years? What what has youtube done to change the way that content creators make their money right so the best way to a two yard kind of run through it is People never paid attention to Youtube Peterson's to as a company. They paid attention to his big website but they never really looking at where. Advertisers ads were landing on youtube videos. Coz Thousand Sixteen late two thousand sixteen early two thousand seventeen a number of stories out that are saying their ads on videos related to terrorism content there are decides on kind of really disturbing children's videos and then in early tillerson seventeen the biggest youtube creator of all time Pudi Pie the whilst journalist that comes out and says hey there's an ad running on these videos he's making lots of money and he just put up with antisemitic. Imagery from that point forward. Youtube is kind of living in this dated gate crisis situation work every single day. Now that people are paying attention. They're noticing their advertisements on videos. That shouldn't shouldn't have advertisements because of ethical moral reasons so youtube starts to integrate new policies. I mean we're talking. Ton Policies Thirty forty policies that they're in implementing being in order to ensure that advertisers feel comfortable running ads on their platform. So it's prioritizing advertisers comfort as opposed to content creators and how much money they're bringing in right and this is the head to head that youtube executives including ceus ski and creators themselves have constantly we had where the executives have said we care about our creators but also we need advertised on the platform. Big thing that happened was called the apocalypse so it looks like there's this this thing called at Pakalitha Youtube Apocalypse is here. Oh no the ad pockets effectively shutdown advertising on their main enchants. This is apparently how youtube sauce problems by panicking and either demonetizing or banning people in order to cater to a few and this is what the creators refer to twenty seventeen after you tomato changes creators. Were talking big and middle saw haege fluctuations in the revenue pulling seventy to eighty percent of revenues gone and so they had to start figuring out how to supplement. It's a lot of them. Went to pitch you on lower than we're looking at brand deals which is now the state of Youtube existent because from that period too now the reality is is that many creators have said to themselves and publicly to their viewers. You have to subscribe to me. You have to have to do these brand deals. Here's what you're gonNA see more ads that I'm talking about because I can't live off advertising going youtube because it's changed and when you say brand deals you mean content creators talking about products in their videos as opposed to just relying on the ads that run either in the middle of a video or at the beginning at the end right one of the most popular creators right now. Is this flogger named David Dope wreck. If you don't know me because I'm a piece of shit he was just recently Jimmy Fallon check out on Youtube Channel Donald. He's kind of one of the most mainstream youtubers right now. He lost a huge one of his ad revenue because his videos were deemed advertiser unfriendly friendly fraud. Fact about every time record my always have to record or from the waist up because he's always giving a blowjob. She swears them. Sometimes they do stunts which are a big big deal now on youtube in terms of what advertisers feel comfortable with He's parties a lot and so while that was okay when he started. He could make attribute that no longer is sued if you look at his videos over the last year he's got deals with seatgeek which is a company that does concert tickets He's got deals with everyone else and he will stop in the middle of the video to go. Okay Hey this is the only reason we can do this video because we're being sponsored by this company. That's how he supplementary living what's up guys before this video continues super excited announce that I'm officially partnering with. EA on their new game need for speed heat. They just launched a new APP called very wealthy. He's very successful. He's kind of the top top one percent but it just goes to show that if David Hilbert who is. Who's making these videos? Does that bring in ten or eleven. Million views can't make it off advertising revenue alone anymore. What does that say for youtubers? Who Bring in fifty thousand views or one hundred thousand views? They just can't live often so juliette take back to the beginnings of Youtube Partner Program. How did content creators make money back then? So Youtube First Entries Partner Program back in two thousand seven. This was after a youtube. Just kind of launched Google had just acquired them and what happened was viral videos started becoming viral viral and Youtube said. You know we're going to give you a penny for you. Doing this and people are like I want money. If I'm getting thirty million views on David after dentist it's Oh live. This is real life kind of an old school video. Charlie bit my finger when you say I love those videos by twenty twelve. I would argue twenty twenty two creator start becoming fulltime and they start realizing there's enough advertisement revenue coming into the platform. There's enough interest that the top hop creators could say. Hey I'm making enough. That can get an apartment or I can get a house somewhere in the Midwest so the best way to think of how. U2 creators make money and how it all works to think of it as as a cycle Creators upload videos to Youtube viewers than flock to the platform advertisers. Come to you. Because that's where the audiences youtube gives creators a portion of that advertising revenue extremely important to entice them to continue uploading on Youtube and not anywhere else And Creator stay on Youtube because it's the best platform to receive advertising money even though the actual may they're getting is not as great as it could be and does everybody get the same amount of money per views across the board or does or is it different depending on the crater. Yeah it fluctuates. So the term is c. p. m. refers to how much you get per thousand views and it changes depending on the Creator top creators who get a lot more than smaller creators. The thing that we talked about a lot I talk a lot with creators. That I talked to is is the one percent of critters. Top one percent get the most advertising revenue. They tend to get the best advertisements. They're part of what's known as Google's preferred program They're getting in top top deals and all the creatures talked to understand that it's they're driving the majority of us Pity Pie who's not in go preferred. Because he's very controversial and to actually doesn't make a lot of advertising revenue because these are not advertisement friendly. He drove like four billion views to youtube last year alone. So there's a there's a section of critters that youtube goes. We want them to down site. We need them to produce because we can show them off and advertisers can advertise on on their videos and has that changed over time. Is it still that kind of tiered. System and in a payment intended to keep these content creators on Youtube one hundred percent is for. I would argue the vast majority of craters the the issue that we talk about a lot In the space ace is that critters want to leave youtube there. They would leave tomorrow if they could. There's just no competition Amazon which owns twitch so do they have twitches a platform but that's live streaming it's two different skills their crypto currency video platforms where you go and you kinda earn bitcoin and it just gets really complicated Youtube Youtube for all the negative about it still pays creators quite frankly the most and the most efficiently to just upload videos But because they have this anomaly the get to what creators view as take advantage of them and they can. Will you have to be here. 'cause there's nowhere else for you to go. Julia Alexander is a reporter for the verge. This is reset and I'm Arial Ross. If you WANNA follow me on twitter you can find me at eighty or s you can also reach the reset team by emailing reset at. Vox Dot Com. We publish episodes three times a week on Tuesdays Thursdays and Sundays. So if you haven't already subscribe to the Pod you can find us on apple podcasts. Stitcher or in your favorite podcast APP. And if you like what you hear your rate and review us on Apple podcasts. It really helps. We'll be back on Thursday later nerds and that really hurt.

Youtube Google Youtube Peterson twitter Peter Kafka CEO Julia Alexander Larry Page SEC reporter partner Thompson Ridge apple Pichai comcast castle Steve Chen Chad Hurley
Why your favorite writers are taking their talents to Substack. Plus: Peacock!

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

42:13 min | 6 months ago

Why your favorite writers are taking their talents to Substack. Plus: Peacock!

"VPN's are great, because they keep you private and hidden online, which is why it's such a shame that some VPN's log your data, which sort of defeats the purpose. HMA. VPN Doesn't do that though we're just private and fast and generally awesome to have around get HMA VPN now for seventy five percent off and see what we're talking about go to HMA. VPN DOT com slash deal. recode media Peter. Kafka, that is sweating in Brooklyn, which is where I'm taping this episode. Want. Welcome back to the show Chris best is the C. O of sub stack, which is a company I think many people listen to this show of her about it allows you to become your own one person media company via newsletters. Welcome Chris. Thanks for having me. You've been on the show before. I haven't spoken before Casey Newton from the verge stepped into the guest host job and really should've kept that job. He does a better job than me, but that's a very good conversation. If you're interested in learning more about subject after this conversation, go up and find the one we did. I think it is fall early fall of two thousand eighteen. You can take that one up. The long ago now it's so long ago and I I re wrote about you guys in twenty seventeen when you were launching and I thought this is an interesting little business. It allows people who wanna be a Ben Thompson who writes the trajectory newsletter to try it themselves. You guys do all the back end work for them and allow them to sort of write the newsletter and you guys handle modernization publishing and all. And that sounded good and my main thought was. There aren't a lot of people who can use this service. There's a lot people who might think they wanna be the next. Ben Thompson but there aren't many. Ben! Thompson's out there and I thought this this will probably be What venture capitalist! Politely Call A or derogatorily call a lifestyle business. Seems like I was wrong. It seems like guys have found a lot of folks who both WanNa make newsletters in an audience for them. Can you just get us up to date on sort of how big the businesses right now yeah! I'm glad we've avoided the horrible fate of having a good lifestyle that would have been that would take an actual venture cafe money which. Can talk about that, too. Yeah, I mean you know the scale really is? There's kind of many thousands of writers millions of readers and they think the last number we made public was at. There's well over a hundred thousand paying subscribers on substance, and can we divide up the thousands of writers in into people who are doing it full time and making a fulltime living doing it versus people who are sort of noodling around we. Can I don't I'm not going to tell you all the numbers but I. Mean there's there's there's. Now enough people that are making a full time limit on it and beyond that you can't chop it up to coincidence. Let's put it that way, so you've proven out the thesis as they say and you have. As, they say yeah, if you if you insist on using all of the words if you're gonNA. If you're GONNA, take venture capital money. I think you have to use all those words. You've got a lot of money from Andriessen. Horowitz I think last year. Some other funders so they liked what they saw. And the reason you popped up on my radar again. recently think Ben, Smith wrote about you for a piece in the times and then news and our universe last week was Andrew Sullivan who up until last week was working at New York magazine, which is owned by pox media, so he's talked with my co worker, even though I've never met him. Announced that he was leaving, and he's got a long essay. That wise leaving and he went to sub stack, and the two things that are interesting to me about. That was one that he went to sub stack in two that are woman. Everyone said Oh. Of course he's going to stack. That's exactly what a re what someone like Andrew Sullivan who is a known writer has a following and had doesn't want. Our can't work at the place he's working at for whatever reason of course he will go. Create a sub stack newsletter which I guess. It's kind of the best endorsement you. You. Guys could get right not not that he's doing it, but that it's it's such an obvious thing for someone like him to do. It's kind of funny and Uncanny to me that that's the case because it hasn't really the the the sort of feeling that you described at the start of being like Oh that sounds like a fun toy business is kind of the reaction that we've always got for people, and it's really only in the past couple of months that it feels like something has flipped and people start podcast with me now. Being like so is a big deal on. That's that's new and exciting framing. Good for you I guess bad for me. That I'm so late to the game. Do you think something changed or is this just a popped up enough? podcasters radars that they feel that way I think the big part of it. Is that we've? been steadily growing and you. If you have steady growth long time, it starts to some point to get to a place where it's. It's noticeable to people. I do think that. The all of the bad things that are going on in the world and just Kovic. Being a terrible thing has been a bit of a tailwind for our growth. You know where to force her position. Where unlike many businesses that are suffering from it, it's it's accelerating the trends that makes up stack important. So that's we've had like very strong sort of the doctor in the past few months. So one version of that is bad time for the media business. Maybe a good time for you guys because there's a lot of folks who who. Who are either newly unemployed, or maybe considering leaving shaky situation, and you offer potential sort of lifeboat. This is when we started the company. We kind of started it with a thesis that Hey, there are a bunch of ways in which the business model for the legacy media is broken, and even in two thousand seventeen, saying hey, all the newspapers are kind of in trouble was not like a a a galaxy brain take. And, it's just. That trend is proving and unfortunately accelerating, and then is it just my imagination or is the idea that this is? This is a little bit of sort of the Silicon Valley versus the East Coast. I will see certain. Silicon Valley twitter types, saying screw east coast media screw big media. We can all become substitute writers now, and it seems like something has caught their attention in the valley as well, and some of it is maybe politically charged I think another reason people thought makes sense that Andrew Sullivan is going to sub stack is that Andrew is on the right side of the spectrum, though he says he's liberal in some ways, and some notion that people who've been canceled or or restrained in some way can find freedom to publish on sub stack. That's something you have tried to cultivate. To me, this fits into the other part of the our thesis, which is I think essentially that social media is breaking our brains a little bit. Of twin twin reasons we started stack were one. Hey, the business models for written culture are failing writers as a writer. There's certain types of work that would be valuable free to do in that people want and that there just isn't a good model to like connect that. Make that happen. Let Writers and creators capture a bunch of the value in the other side of the equation to me is because of the lack of business model for large swath of content what ends up happening is people are giving all of their attention to their social media feeds. That are sort of like ad-supported, and which therefore are optimized for engagement. And so if you are somebody that runs a social media feed, you're just you're trying to sell as many ads as possible. You want people coming back kind of like addictive -Ly, and so you just you tweak the algorithm to show whatever's. Engaging and not by malice, because human beings, human beings, a lot of the things that succeed in that kind of mimetic environment are things that make us angry or afraid or hate each other. And I see the this what I think of as kind of silly. Tech versus journalism twitter drama not as like a interesting fundamental shift I see that as a symptom of. Bad sort of media landscape where we're having the dumbest possible version of every important argument we could be, we could be having I wanNA talk about engagement and Click Bait in a second, but I want to ask. Have you gone out and sort of presented yourself to the Andrew Sullivan's of the world and said hey guys generally guys. and Barry Weiss If you're being canceled by the man, you can come to US whereas. WHEREAS SAFE-SPACE or are they finding it on their own? Do you have to do outreach to this? For this I, mean we go to lots of writers and the pitches? Like Hey, you should independent. You should connect directly with your own audience, right? You should own the relationship that you have with your audience. You should own all of your content. You should get a make your own editorial decisions and you should be able to. Charge subscriptions and have people support you directly aid because you're GONNA make more money that way, and it's going to be nice and great and be because that vise your independence that gives you a place where the you know. The the job you have to do is give you to your readers, and they're the ones that decide that hire and fire. You essentially did you guys go to? Did you guys go to Andrew Sullivan? Remember what happened there? I do know that. When we first started the company in two thousand seventeen, we actually started by writing a manifesto, because we're huge nerds, and in that document, we kind of cited in this sort of crazy idea. This is before we even before you read that article before we had bill bishop. We sort of laid out this plan of like. Hey, people can go independent on the Internet as writers that people will pay for it, and we had to sort of proof points that may gave us the confidence to believe that that could be true. One of whom was Ben, Thompson and the other of whom was Andrew Solomon. With the dish, because of course he ran the dish for years and sort of prove this model of independent journals of the forceps. Ever existed is quite early on. We were I think we were trying to like vaguely. Talk to him just because in the same way we sort of. Talked Thompson early on because it was a model for what we were doing. He's spiritual co-founder. Something like that I'll give you I want to talk more about how it's GonNa work I did I want to go back to this idea you brought about. Engagement 'cause you hear this a lot from people who preach the merits of paying for for content which I'm all for even on this re podcast. I'm all for it But this idea I again I've seen it in some of the Silicon Valley. Discussions like US Click Bait. You're trying to get someone to click on this. Click right? is you advertise something you don't deliver? Say I'm going to show you this salacious thing, and then you click on it. You don't get it. That's Click Bait telling someone I've got something Salacious, and then click on, and they get to see it. That's just a happy customer. Right and if you're. If you're in, but if you're in the newsletter business, you have to engage your customer. You have to keep the coming back. You can't have bore them to death. NETFLIX's as a giant subscription businesses, two hundred million people, and they go out of their way to find the entertaining content that we'll keep people happy. I'm wondering if as you're working with these writers if there is. If you sort of have to go, look we. We told you could write whatever you want and be free of the man and the but you still eventually have to figure out how to get people to engage with the stuff you're making, and if it's too dry, you've got to find a way to live in and up or if no one's responding to topic X. Y. and Z gotta consider something else. How much sort of training do you have to offer? Or or coaching or I, guess we used to call editing. do you offer? Your writers. We definitely don't do any editing. The best way that we found the stuff is by finding the people who are doing the stuff on the platform, and and letting their lessons kind of percolate, so we for example we have a little. We have a podcast where we interview writers who have succeeded on stacking. They can kind of like tell the story of what they did, and how they think about it, and what matters? and. The real difference and this is true of podcasting is well. The real difference is not. Are People choosing to engage with this thing or not. Or are you? Are you deceiving people into things I think the relevant thing is like? How are people making the decision of what they're putting into their head? And with something like a podcast or like a newsletter you kind of take a step back and you decide as your best self like Hey, what do I want to be in my media diet? And what am I? What am I optimizing for? What what's going to make my life better by subscribing to? And when you make that decision, you're not you're not like you know. Our job is not to like. Make you eat your vegetables? We're not here being like only read dry, informative. Pure. Content like look whatever you. Whatever you think is going to make your life better by your own lights. Like like I'm kind of here for that. The trick is like. How do you make that decision and increasingly the way the people make that decision. is they kind of delegate it to you? These really addictive modes of interaction where you know you sort of like fall into a twitter hole, and you're sitting there like one more scroll one more scroll. What am I going to click on? What am I gonNA? Engage with and to the extent that people want to do that like it's great. I think that's totally fine, but I think what's happening is that people are starting to have this sense of like Hey I am delegating a lot of the way. I spend my attention to these various fees, and I'm actually not happy about it. It's actually not the way that I want to spend my life or my attention, and I want to have some other way where I'm. I'm still deciding and I'm still figuring out what I want my media diet, but I wanna make it on the level of Hey, I, really trust this podcast show, and I have an interesting perspective, and so I'm going to put them in my podcast. APP and that's GonNa. Decide I really trust. This newsletter writers so I'm GonNa Subscribe maybe I'm going to pay for them and. The the sub stack newsletter. Writer fits into the media Diet Right. Do you imagine that one day I? Get all my information from ten different newsletter writers, and that's and then maybe pay eleven one to summarize it for me or that I have news publication, X., Y. and Z and then two other newsletter people because they either have specific expertise that I can't get somewhere else or maybe I liked that. Maybe they're funny. Maybe the eloquently summarized the news. Right now my sense of of successful newsletters are a mix of analysis and aggregations slash curation. You don't have time to read everything. I did here's five good articles and and four paragraphs of a really good idea. Ben. Thompson writes three really deep essays a week. They're not pegged to the news, but they're all sort of. They all assume that you are consuming news other places as well. I think there's I think there's a big world and I think there's the appetite for things like what you get on sub stack is fairly high and the key ingredient. There is like the trusted voice in the trusted perspective I think curation is really valuable. Their opinion is valuable there. We do see some like getting sort of journalism. If I'm I, really care about thing accident, I can't find good stuff better, and there's somebody who's covering all pay for that and even like comedy fiction. Culture Entertainment. Is a model that works for a lot of a lot of things would imagined sort of what's your roadmap, do you? Imagine I saw that you guys have added a feature where multiple writers can sort of joined together in a subject I think in the old days we call that a magazine or maybe even a newspaper. Do you see yourself sort of moving towards that model where you serve actually allow people to put together an actual? With multiple voices, and do you think this is something that you eventually want to bundle different writers together on your own, and those sort of a sub stack assembled magazine, or is the idea that the appeal of sub stack is? There's a very specific writers of various Pacific voice in you only want that you don't want the other nine. I think one of our core principles is independence as a writer. You're the thing that substance is is enabling for you as an. Independent I get to connect with my audience to me the logic for. Having letting multiple people work on a publication together is just. We had lots of writers that wanted that and they. They were saying you would help them independent. They could do it with friends. And by the way you know somebody that started a company like I wanted to have co-founders. It's like a it's a natural sort of sensible thing to want. And so I think it is valuable. I think people still can. Subscribe to a newsletter that's written by two people that they trust, and that worked together in some interesting way. The bundling stuff is really interesting, because bundle economics do exist, and there is like a a case where hey, there's a way that the reader and the writers can both benefit from a bundle existing. I think the thing that really matters to us. Is that to the extent that we enable bundling on the platform it will be bottom up and driven by the writers and not top down, so the thing that we will never do is come in and say okay writers like you have your audience, but we're imposing some down bundle on you because we think that would be good. Because in doing so we would destroy the very thing that. That the whole, the whole proposition valuable, and so the thing that I'm excited to see writers that are kind of like self federating. They're like hey. I read about you and about why these really interesting. They're not overlapping too much. There'd be some people that would like one of the other like we should get together cuts of deal. I'm really excited about that, and it's been interesting space exploring it, and there's not we don't have too much. We're not too far down that path yet. Okay, so that's the thing that could happen. It doesn't happen doesn't exist really right now. Yeah, there's some experiments reading. There's people that are running multiplications. NAPTHA HSIEH's danced for are doing at everything bundle where they've kind of like convinced a couple of independent writers to like sort of federate with them, and that's really fairly well, just sort of like. Running essentially early test of that, but we're not. We're not deep down that, and then what about other medium I mean? If this was a few years ago I'd say video will give video pass something where you can imagine adding podcasts magic other kinds of writing. Into this package. Yes, we actually. We have podcast support right now. kind of hidden in the product. Under a little Beta tick box. Okay, I don't feel bad for. Then, no, we do a terrible job of popularizing I. DO think we'll be adding other media types and the the. Biggest reason is just like we are trying to serve writers and to create these like you know individual media empires like you're. You're saying and it turns out that a lot of writers wanted to do podcasts and videos, and so we're. We're just GONNA get. Pulled down that that we like talking. We like hearing ourselves. Talk occasionally like hearing what people have to say. Saxon interview show where I. Talk Over you all the time. Sorry about that and I'm sure everyone has talked about this, but this cycle the Andrew. Sullivan's a great example right so he was running the new republic kings notoriety. There does the daily dish eventually. Eventually makes up the subscription business that seems to work. He then Burns himself out. He ends up at a bigger national publication for the reasons that lots of people want to go to big publications and media organizations. You can pay well, and also if you support and you don't have to worry about making this week's numbers. I'm wondering how you sort of think. That will play out for this newest cohort of people. You're bringing on right now. Everyone's on the up. It seems to be going well eventually. They're gonNA. Eventually, everyone will have a sub stack right like everyone's got podcast and blog posts. And events the market will sort of shake out a little bit and I imagine. You'RE GONNA. HAVE PEOPLE SAYING I? I thought I could do this, but I've hit a wall. This isn't a lifestyle. Actually I can only do this. Part timer turns out. I do need to go work for the man and I'm wondering how you're thinking about that. A long winded way of saying. Can you provide additional support to make this something that? That is sustainable something we think about a lot. Some of it is just as basic as having kind of like features and norms on the platform like something you were pushing writers like it's okay to take a vacation like your readers. Don't expect you never to take a vacation. That's fine you can. You can do that and we have features that you can pause subscriptions if he needs to take an extended periods of that. We're also looking at more ways that we can sort of support writers going independent. One thing we announced last week as we've started a program. That's like adding some additional like legal help. Something we found was happening was there would be? You know I'd be like some independent writer writing about some politician in my town being triggered, or whatever and you get like a a cease and desist letter from powerful sounding lawyer. The just threatens you with a bunch of stuff, which is completely bogus. An independent writer and you're faced with a scary legal thing you're like what do I do about this like how do i? How do I fight? This can't even afford to call a lawyer. To call a lawyer, and like if I even if I could. What lawyer would I call and like what is this? This is scary and that's another benefit that that that you would have if you're in a big newsroom and so we've been like helping connect those writers with good lawyers. You can help with that stuff and and connect with them basically on the theory that like. Especially for the cases where these threats totally bogus in, it's just an attempt to silence. People doing good journalism. We sort of have a a selfish platform interest. Also, there's a legitimate public interest in just like vigorously defending the most focus of those cases, and so we have a program now. We're helping that we're GONNA go and like make it so that if you're just trying to shut up, some journalists like weaken basically come lend a hand and make it so that's not a a free things. Do if your? Subjective critical reporting, Chris signed up Andrew Sullivan. Who else is on your your wishlist for the rest of year? I'm going after we. We sat down and made a plan for this. The thing we actually wrote down was all the writers. So, you can you can? Say. You're listening this podcast and you've written something subject to talk to you and you you. You will give someone a stipend. Right to start out, so here's here's a few thousand dollars to get going. Yeah, running a few different programs like that so definitely. Get in touch with us. There's a fellowship that's running, but I think the applications are just closed for. They'll be an excellent, and you can follow along there. We have some other programs that were. Incubating, so if you right, you want to go independent. Definitely. Get in touch with us. Also. We're hiring to okay well. I'm happily employed at vox media. So I'm staying put, but I really admire what you're doing. Working out. No one can see that Christmas. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Thanks again to Chris for getting on the Internet and talking with me again like I mentioned Chris had a longer conversation I'm no one say it's better, but it's very good with Casey Newton from the verge. You can hear that if you go back and dig up the archive from September twenty eighteen. It's worth time. It's also free, so I wouldn't go do it. speaking of free? We have more free content coming to you in a minute. We're GONNA talk with Julia Alexander from the verge about peacock. NBC Slash comcast new streaming. Service I a word from a fine sponsor. VPN's are great because they keep you private and hidden online, which is why it's such a shame that some VPN's log your data which sort of defeats the purpose? HMO VPN doesn't do that though we're just private and fast and awesome to have around, get HMA VPN now for seventy five percent off, and see what we're talking about go to a VPN dot com slash deal. Ten. Nine today explained is making a whole summer series. In Hey adults, you'll like it to seven. This week were walking a big corona virus mystery six. Will we have a vaccine five? We get serious with science. When the virus goes into the body, it's like a little soldier on a secret mission I mean not. Fit. For I mean it's also really sticky at the same time like maple. Syrup. For. Scientific. Lose to find the answer a open this door over here, too. Back with us to the island of splayed, every other Friday wherever you find the today, explain podcast. Delighted to have Julia Alexander. Internet and Internet video and everything expert who works at the verge, and she's still hiding out in Canada welcome. Julia thank you for having me I'm delighted to have you because when when we have you on the show means another new video service has been launched. Last time. We brought you on to discuss qube. We had on right after we talk with Jeffrey Katzenberg and in delicately. Ask You if you thought he was going to work, and you said No. And all evidence today points says that you're right. You got it right. With is not successful, so let's start very big picture. Peacock is the new streaming service from NBC. Universal slash comcast. Is Peacock GonNa. Work Julia Alexander. In the long run, yes, and in the short run I also think yes, but I don't think it's going to scale as fast as we are expecting or anticipating it to so back up one more step, so that's a qualified. Yes, that's a yes. You think it's GonNa work I agree by the way peacock is is NBC's entrant into this. It's if you really want the context I think comcast would have preferred that it could still is was still a part owner of Hulu. Hulu is working pretty well. And it got kicked out of Hulu because Disney bought Fox and said Disney and Fox two thirds. WHO also get out here comcast? You gotTa make. Your own. Service so this is their service, and if you think about it, the way that the Hulu started out years ago. This is a place where you can watch shows that have already been on TV. That's what this is, plus some extra new stuff. I think the major thing extinguishes it from its competitors. Is that while you can pay for peacock? They don't really expect you to expect you to watch it for free with ADS Kinda like old television. What strikes you opening up peacock from the GECKO. How does it compare it everything? Else Hussein's so far, but I think to touch on what you said. It's free with the giant Asterix. It's free the the basic free tier that most people are gonNA. Get if they are if you're not a cable subscriber and specifically, if you're not a comcast cox subscriber, the Free Tier that you're gonNA. Get gives you. Half of what peacock actually offers that means you're GONNA. Get a lead us more than seventy five hundred. Hours I believe of of television and films YOU'RE GONNA get access to some other kind of cool things like they have a trending section real clips. From SNL. Of from the today, show. But YOU'RE NOT GONNA get Premier League Games you'RE NOT GONNA get access to kind of next day programming from NBC and you're not going to get access to full category of originals that are coming out and their library, so the free aspect is what will bring people in people like me as someone who spends too much already on streaming services, but it's not free in the sense of. Of. Everyone's going to get the exact same thing. There's a there's a there's an up level. It's interesting because right now and I follow pretty closely. They're going out of their way not to talk about the fact, there's a paid service here in their corporate messaging, and when you're actually on the site or the APP. If you click around, you can figure out how to get the money. But that is not what they're asking for. They're asking you to watch TV for free and then watch them at the best that I approached peacock at one affretair was I used exactly for what I imagine. A lot of people are just to watch old NBC shows 'cause I was someone who I was very. I was very very young in the nineties and I grew up watching Er with my parents and law and order and. It was something that I have a fond memory of soup peacock for me a good way just to watch the Dick Wolf collection for, and that's what I was using it for, but what I realized as I wanted to do more simply. I want I'm premier league fan so I wanted to watch merely game. Soccer. Who aren't following its English soccer? It's fantastic and I wanted to watch that and they couldn't. And the more time I spent the APP the takeaway from it is this is a major player to have a streaming focus service, which is great, but also to remind people. That cable is good like this exists reminds you that as a cable subscriber. You're going to get things that you're not to get via any of the streamers Netflix's. netflix's or who by itself this was like we have this because we own because we're NBC universal more comcast. We can give you some of this in order to do that. You either need to be comcast for cock subscriber, already a customer already, or you have to pay the ten dollars, and you get some of it. It's a streaming service coming from a company that that is the biggest. Cable TV provider in the country and the which owns a giant TV programmer All the TV programmers in media companies that are getting into streaming are going back and forth about. How much they want to invest in this new streaming business, and how much how much they want to continue to mind their existing business as long as they can, Disney has gone pretty far and saying look. We're taking some of our best stuff we have. It's going on Disney plus. Great example that it was supposed to be in the theater as you can see it only on Disney, plus they're still hedging their bets a little bit right. If you WANNA, get espn their most valuable network. You have to get through cable TV. You can't get standalone but there. On that scale NBC as much closer to Hey, the existing business we have is pretty good, so we're also GONNA streaming business. We're not moving everything over there quite yet. You're not going to see your best movies their day in date. You'RE NOT GONNA. See you just you can't see our. Our shows are best shows that come out on Tuesday. You can't see them on Wednesday. We prefer that you keep paying for cable, but if you're not, we have stuff for you. When even the design of the APP is supposed to make you feel like the way cable TV makes you feel. Hopefully makes sure. The idea that they have a section. When you open the APP, there's three basic. Categories, there's browse which is what anyone who's used Netflix. Who will automatically know if on your TV show I'm. Inside your search bar. There's a trending section which I think is like qube light to an extent. It's clips viral stuff that they got us a weird one I couldn't tell that they were videos. They seemed like maybe they were like actual stories. They're very random. there's an ad for a Ryan Lac de Show I. Guess at Remember Who Ryan locked. He won't. Talk About Ryan Lock more likely some more in a minute, but this the sexual you're talking about the sort of looks like a TV grid is pretty interesting, and it's either novelty that we're all GonNa. Stop paying attention to or maybe there's a there there. I think what's interesting about. It is that it removes the paradox of choice, which is the biggest issue I find with streaming services and it's something that netflix executives have spoken about when they. Greg Peters is who oversees all the texts netflix's. He's aware of it reads like we know people spend eight minutes or whatever browsing to find sending them. They just watch friends or not friends anymore. There you watch whatever the they've been watching just because it's so. And what peacock doesn't really old. The channels is like if you go and you're like. Oh, there's a murder mystery playing. There's SNL plan. You can just click it, and it plays like regular TV right now. It feels a bit gimmicky, but the thing that NBC universal on comcast really wanted to incorporate more live aspects, and if we can get to a point where it's like yeah, there's a live news broadcast from NBC or from Sky, which comcast owns or if you can get live sports right there to an example NBC. NBC Universal has the licensing rates to. If there was some reason to actually be watching live TV because right now what they're showing, these channels aren't really channels for the most part. They're sort of like a collection of stuff that normally you would get on demand like there's a Seth Meyers Channel, and when you click in, it starts playing whatever part of the Seth Meyers episode, but it's from however many years ago. You can't like regular TV or bring it to be used to be. You can't pause it or rewind, it's. Disorienting, I mean it really does say you don't have to do any work because we're already streaming something for you here. which everyone is trying to tack on a different way? But. It's a pretty cool novelty. Let's talk about news and sports and the fact that they're not there. peacock launched. You know had a soft launch a couple of months ago, the real launches now. This was supposed to be a huge huge Olympic showcase for NBC. Obviously there are no Olympics but a big push for for peacock was going to be. We're GONNA have a ton of Olympics programming here. Obviously a that doesn't exist. They have to sort of soldier on. They still have weird shit. Shit like the Ryan Lac de show it'll take us would have been relevant at one point and and similarly with news I. Think they had planned to do a big push around a news service. that they're sort of doing with sky. That's sort of like their version of CNN. Those things don't really exist at all right now, but you could see how they could plug them in. This seems like a pretty good staging area for them and I. Guess when I think about this from both. You know thinking about you know. What does it do for NBC and comcast? and was it do for just a person who wants to watch something like? It seems like a pretty good compromise like those are pretty yeah to successful than diagrams. Butchered that analogy, but you get what I'm saying. You're smart I think it's a win. Win Win in that it's a win for NBC universal as a Content Company to win for consumers who just want somewhere, honestly servants that that is free to an extent. You'RE GONNA. Get a bunch of really good TV. Shows than some some life sports aspect kind of built in They're figuring that out, but also a win for comcast and a win for like just finding. When it comes down to media company, just the accident. They're going to have via this. The fact that they built a whole new advertising kind of technology for this soon as they can sell high, as that are better targeted to people that they can sell at a higher price. They're gonNA. Come out with a bit of a a new revenue path for them that they didn't have before and at the same time. The compromise on our end is not that bad. It's like you're still getting a bunch of really good shows for a very little. If anything fee right I I'm just going to caution you on the ad tech stuff because they oversell this stuff all the time. I spend a lot of time watching Hulu right now and the idea that they have targeted these ads towards me and my family is ridiculous. 'cause I've no idea and the repeating the same ads over and over and the main thing they're doing is saying. Here are five minutes of ads coming. So. You can go do something else while we were running these ads that you can't skip. Like any. New Video, service. Launch this was supposed to have a bunch of originals. I poked around. I've seen ads for originals. I can't actually find the originals stuff here. That didn't show up because it wasn't ready. As your stuff that's coming. And what have you seen along the originals? That's interesting if anything. Yeah, they met strategies kind of head of this whole operation he's. In a previous call with reporters. At this point in time is flat, circle the pandemic at some point during this, he acknowledged that new shows. They're going to be a bunch of shows that weren't GonNa hit the premier date for peacock because of the pandemic hitting making production issues, the same way that Hbo Max is encountered same similar issues. In Disney of course they do have a slate of I, believe it's eight or nine originals that they launched with the most appealing or against the highest profile is brave new world, which is backed by Alden Ehrenreich who played young. Han Solo in Solo. Star Wars story for Disney I haven't seen, and here's the thing about the originals. None of them were appealing to me. Even the David Schwimmer show, which is as I return to sitcoms since friends. I think it's called intelligence. None of this is is exciting to me. None of it is like I have to watch the show, but what NBC has and what they know they have. Is that huge catalog of Ip that I think they do a much better job of marketing. Then Viacom CBS or at the time, suggested CBS all access. It's like they have a bunch of two, and they weren't able to get people on board with that when I open up peacock, it's like Oh yeah here. All these NBC shows that I genuinely love watching that. I want to rewatch anything from cheers and Frazier to thirty rock, but again. The show is on that side are really interesting because I just listed off a bunch of shows that you can watch on peacock, you can watch some of those on Hulu as well you can watch on Hulu you can watch some of the Netflix's Watson. Access right now. NBC's probably most valuable show is not on peacock. The office is on net flicks for the rest of the year. That that NBC gets it back. You know if you are. If you're someone who wants to figure out how to watch the office, you'll go find the office I think this is mostly for like. Oh Yeah thirty rock that's let's watch some of that and it's. It's quite satisfying. There was a show I wanted to ask you. About doesn't exist yet, but it's the one they leaned into an all. The press releases a reboot of battles to reboot of a reboot a battle circle lactic. Sama Smell. is attached to it. When will we see that? We don't know right? No idea everything at this point is up in the air and this is something that we've been tracking pretty closely over at the verge, too, because so much. We are looking at are any. Movies come out this year. At this point we're and we're looking. At what shows were. These streaming services supposed to launch on the heavily marketed on that they're not watching within then for peacock. Battlefield is a big one with CMS mel. WHO has overall deal with NBC Universal, and also the friends reunion special free was supposed to be the thing, and they couldn't launch with it and now. David, Schumer. Just said we're supposed to shoot in August, but we don't know full. Even do that because it all depends. Yeah. I gotta say that friends. Reunion did not seem like compelling content to me. and it's extraordinarily expensive and I get how it'd be a fun thing for for them to launch with I. Think whenever they come out with. It was like Oh finally. The the long delayed union special little. You don't really WANNA. See David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston sitting around talking about what it's like to make that show, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it'll be genius well and the thing. I think that's really important about all of these streaming services kind of figuring out what their next six months look like they're competing with the Juggernaut, which is net, which is coming. Yeah, we've got I think I saw number. It was like they've released an absurd amount of movies already. Ted Saran does WHO's the new. CEO of Net flicks just was like we're pretty much good into twenty twenty one at which point then they'll be in the senior. They said it's going well what they said is. The first half twenty twenty one is going to be light at all our show. It'll be in two thousand and twenty two I mean it's pretty funny. Because even Netflix's right acknowledges there is a limit to how much stuff they've had. They are definitely moving stuff up, so you don't get your stuff. That was they were thinking about coming out in the summer and fall. They moved up to spring. We're in summer now. And this may not be a coincidence, but they're leaning more and some of the international stuff. I keep referencing and every podcast I. do there is a soft core, Polish? Porn movie. There you go that I have not seen I've read an excellent excellent description of it, and that was a top ten trending show for them for a while, and maybe that would. Maybe they always planned on bringing the Polish softcore porn out to America soon as possible or maybe that's something that they sort of digging around in the corners for for content change. So to sum up, we think peacocks Kinda good. Peacock was charging ten dollars as an entry level fee. It would be like this is something you don't need. It's not foundational in the way that Netflix's a foundational streaming service. The fact that it's free to anyone if they want to go basic and then five to ten dollars, depending on the other kind of tears can look into. Easy, easy win, and if you are someone who uses the Apple TV APP which I kind of do mostly just to check it out at integrates with that, I mean you know. Everyone periodically makes the smart astro market. Hail these different stations and services is kind of like a cable TV package. Maybe someone should bone the limo altogether. And Yeah this feels like. Yeah, this would be a good thing for someone to remind me that. I was going to say golden girls. Thirty ROCK IS ON BET? The golden girls are at to and I should go check it out and there'd be a listing, and all that would work, but the truth is. We all know how to get into APPS and flick around, and this will not hurt you. As far as we can tell you, it seems like we're doing an ad and we should note that that comcast is an investor in our parent company, but they did not pay us to make this. Okay. This is a rambling, mostly coherent entirely here on your part less so on mine. Many review of peacock and we're giving it two thumbs up. Yes, okay Julia Alexander, your your marvel. You're incredibly patient I. Look Forward to the day where I can see you in person me. Thanks for joining take care. Thanks again to Julia thanks again to Chris. Thanks again to the folks who make this show possible. The Vox media podcast network and their sales team, and also Salani produces the show and Joe, who edits on quick turnaround like today. Thanks again to you, guys. This is Rico media. We'll see you next week.

writer comcast NETFLIX NBC Peacock Ben Thompson Chris best Andrew Sullivan Julia Alexander NBC NBC Universal Disney vox media Hulu US Silicon Valley Casey Newton David Schwimmer
Don't @ Me: How This Massive YouTuber Got Banned For Life

theScore Esports Podcasts

06:42 min | 5 months ago

Don't @ Me: How This Massive YouTuber Got Banned For Life

"This past week, one of the most controversial people on Youtube leafy got banned for life and today I'm GonNa try to sift through all the drama surrounding as banning and explain to you step by step. What happened here's why leafy got the Band Hammer. All right. So if you like new shows like this one, you're gonNA. Love our talk show clouded over on her twitch channel twitch dot TV, slash score sports every Wednesday at one PM. Eastern. We go live to talk all of the latest news from East sports streaming and gaming. So make sure you go give us a follow and turn on notifications. So you know when we go live. All right, let's get back to. This leafy situation. So if you don't know who he is, Calvin Leafy is here Aka leafy Lee Vail can only be described as well. A drama Youtuber he started uploading in twenty thirteen and got popular around twenty fifteen for making videos about other content creators, their lives, their personalities, their various beliefs, and what he saw as wrong with them you really never know with youtubers one day they could be completely fine next fucking. Oil issues that youtubers can't cancer just sitting here like, yeah, I am cancer but the best fucking cancer on this website maybe he's most notorious video from that era is a now deleted video making fun of another smaller content creator who has a learning disability. It's safe to say that after that he established himself as a bill in pretty quickly that said, he did have a falling Levi's fans saws, videos just harmless jokes and before he got. Banned. He had almost five million subscribers on youtube around two thousand, seventeen leafy took a pretty long break from youtube and it wasn't until recently that he got back to making the videos, he was known for videos about other very dramatic content creators like h h three, Keam Star, and I dubs that said the story of his eventual banning started in July when he turned his attention to poke over the course of several videos, leafy criticize polk means. Content, her appearance and even went as far as to say that she was hiding a secret boyfriend from her fans and that's specific topic became so popular after his videos that the Hashtag pokey main boyfriend was trending on twitter and that prompted this joke from pokey main who said in the past that she's not interested in making her love life public on the Internet leafy spokesman videos all went viral and around that time pokemon announced that she'd be. Taking a long break from streaming and content creation in general, and then recently pokey released an apology video discussing topics that range all the way back to twenty eight eighteen. But she did talk about some of Leakey's criticisms directly. Specifically, her relationship status and comments about her appearance if video is to address freezing comments, criticisms that I perceived I know this video is long overdue. I've seen a lot of people talk about the way that I look recently. There's WanNa. PUT It out there. I don't think I'm the prettiest person in the world. But I think that's okay everyone's entitled to an opinion I personally made the decision seven years ago whenever I got into streaming that I don't want my personal life to the part of my content and that's just what I'm GonNa stick by until I and whoever I'm dating whatever time decide otherwise that video was released on August eighteenth and then three days later on August twenty first Levi's entire youtube channel was gone. Now you choose policy when it comes to violating the rules Is very similar to twitches that we talk about all the time on this show it's three strikes, and then you're at each of the first times violated a policy you get one, and then the third time the channel is just deleted. Youtube cited quote multiple severe violations of Youtube policy prohibiting content designed to harass bully or threatened end quote as the reason for Levi's ban according to tweet from slasher. Now, when the story about lease Van I broke, there was some speculation about. Whether or not he was notified. But as I two strikes at all a representative from Youtube told Julia Alexander a report from the verge debt quote, his channel was terminated because it violated the company's harassment policy three times over a period of ninety days. No specific videos were identified, but they did confirm its permanent when I asked specifically about length of Ban and quote on August twenty first after he was banned leafy tweeted a youtube asking how he could get his account reinstated. In response to the news another Youtuber Cabos tweeted that leafy had never been notified about his first two strikes at all and that his account had just been banned out of knowing leafy himself also claimed keep never been given any strikes in a later comment that said back on June fourth leafy actually tweeted that he'd received two strikes on his account for harassment. There have been some people commenting that those strikes were reverted but that hasn't been confirmed by leafy himself or Youtube. On August twenty fourth leafy tweeted this still looking for his account to be reinstated. And when team Youtube responded, he had some choice words as recording this video leafy channel still nowhere to be found on Youtube and he's actually started to stream on twitch. So I, guess he's trading places but dr disrespect. Now with this whole story mind it's worth noting that Youtube has recently made massive changes to its policy requirements for users. Specifically, the way that content creators are supposed to treat other content creators. issue. In, many different ways and I think we have seen many we've seen some high-profile examples that we know have been Alec and that has caused us to take really hurt look at our harassment Halsey as I'm sure many of you know since like the beginning of time, one of the easiest ways to become popular on youtube is to make you videos about other youtubers. This is specifically true about what we would call drama content where creators be for call each other out. An extremely cringe boxing matches. With. That said, this latest situation involving leafy really seems to show that Youtube is taking stuff seriously and trying to figure out what's fair game the what constitutes harassment at this point with this story I? Think we're just GONNA have to wait and see if Lee will ever get back on Youtube if he'll be able to stay on twitch and if this new stricter policy is going to have long term implications for other creators as well.

youtube harassment Levi content creator boxing twitter Lee Vail Leakey Van I WanNa Lee Alec Keam Star Halsey representative Julia Alexander ninety days seven years three days
Exclusive: Matt Mullenweg and Automattic bought Tumblr. Whats next?

The Vergecast

35:45 min | 1 year ago

Exclusive: Matt Mullenweg and Automattic bought Tumblr. Whats next?

"They're ready to emergency interview episode. Julia alexander and i sat down with matt moylan league. He's a c._e._o. Of automatic company makes wordpress arrest simple note automatic just tumbler. The legendary blogging platform tumbler sold to yahoo years ago for one point one billion dollars. Dan yahoo collapsed sold itself to a._o._l. A._o._l. Collapsed sold the whole kit and caboodle the verizon. No one's taking good care of tumbler in the meantime they sold oldest reported prices true automatic pot for reportedly three million dollars but now the haven't matt mullen wag is a legendary c._e._o. On the open web he's running wordpress for a long time time wordpress powers so many websites over thirty percent of the sites wherever wordpress sites and he has big plans for tumbler. He was nice enough. Sit down with us. Tell us suppose plans are checks out. This is julian talking about c._e._o. Of automatic all right that long leg you're the c._e._o. Of automatic which makes wordpress and now i believe you own tumbler. Welcome yes very excited to be here so big news <hes> automatic purchasing tumbler here from verizon. Just walk us through that right. I mean this is the story of tumbler as long and winding. I think a lot of folks are very happy that it's in good hands at wordpress now. <hes> dave karp tweeted. I can't i'm so happy. It's here <hes> martyr armand. He's working somewhere tweeted these very happy so a lot of tumbler. Oh jeez extremely happy. It's a wordpress but how did how did this happen. Drizin call you. They send you a five g. Samsung phone with like a note on the screen had had this good end. That would have been awesome. Actually i mean i've i've long been a fan of tumbler. I've been user pretty much since it started. <hes> there's been some features and wordpress certainly inspired by tumbler over the years and <hes> i was bummed when it sold to verizon yahoo gosh was that twenty thirteen now for one point one billion dollars for one point one billion dollars and so i was very happy for the team i was a little relieved as a competitor because tumbler so cool and at the time yeah who was not cool but around this you know i believe is in reach out to a number folks and also had a ton of folks incoming because the news of tumbler being for sale did leak. I believe in the wall street journal a few months ago so i know that a lot of incoming a lot lot of <hes> good bidders. I'm really glad that they chose automatically the home for it because i do believe that we're the best place tumbler could be in terms of just what we do. We're repacking about what the teams already do. There's a lot of overlap between wordpress dot com and tumbler so i'm really glad i says how it ended up but it was a difficult process yeah. I wanted to have it on the process. I want it. Just get it out of the way i wanna talk future tumbler but <hes> the purchase price was reported to be three million dollars can you can you confirm that i ask the same questions hoping someone will answer well a. I think i'm obligated. Julia would kill me ask in b. It's it's a pretty precipitous drop in and values. I'm curious. If you can discuss subtle it sure we're deferring to verizon kind of all the details there. It's really up to them for what to disclose. We're not i can talk more generally that i would think i just did a blog post about this fries and as a company does over one hundred twenty billion dollars in revenue. They got tumbler through yahoo which then merged with a._o._l. Became oath pot became horizon media. It was something they inherited a few levels down or a few levels deep. I think that their top priority was not trying to maximize the purchase the price at the might even be a corporate reason for the purchase price to be lower for taxes or something they were really looking for where the best home was going to be and so that was really where we tried to optimize the deal <hes> especially in terms of bringing over the the close to two hundred people were taking them all on and i am aware of somebody tells the other bidders they were not planning to keep much of any the team going so we we take berkshire-hathaway approach. We really want to bring over the management the team take what was working well which is tumblers engagement and grow from there so that's really interesting so i was just that bit of the process. I think most people listening to a show like this are not in your shoes very often where you go out and you buy. I sort of legendary internet property. There's a big telecom company involved. There's other bidders who i think you mentioned. I read your blog posts. The private equity companies are just wanna like bracing great thing in parts and sold for scrap. Most people are not usually in that situation so just describe what what it was like going through that process we actually people people send us stuff all the time so we kind of look at at least a few acquisitions a week. <hes> most are not a good fit for this what we do is you know there was kind of a deck they had and we went over and met the management team. If you folks who work on the kind of a variety of media in verizon side of things <hes> had some contacts at verizon that i paint separately and then there's the diligence process you try to find out as much information about the business you talk about possible outcomes you you just kind of figure out what works best for both sides. <hes> we always approached deals from kind of a win win. So what i like to do is understand what motivates the other side and what's most important to them and then you know try to find the intersection the ven diagram overlap of of what you're able to do and what's important to you so were you mostly with verizon or with tumbler folks. That's actually the question <hes> so oh both <hes> so we both interacted with tumbler folks and <hes> but he's kinda verizon running the process. They have some extremely experienced developments cahen lawyers and everything so rises. I don't believe it. I'll say their lawyers are super good. It was some of the agreement it came over. We're like whoa <hes> so but you know the team and automatic <hes> like i said it's very tiny powerful and <hes> and we worked really really hard are to make this happen. There was an exclusive period and then <hes> kind of a deadline and we got everything signed up on sunday so deals closed. Tumbler is a automatic the property now we are all signed. I believe the terminology is the deal is cuss is subject to customary closing conditions so it's gonna take a you know call it a few months to actually transfer transfer everything over but now we're all signed and agreed and so it's basically ninety nine percent of the way there okay so that's the deal. What do you want to do with goodness. Were you ever a tumbler user. I briefly posted my my personal blog on tumbler. It is still my second most used daily out. I mean this is the reason why we were so excited. Hot you the comedian tumbler. It's gotten and a little bit smaller but the community it's still there is ferocious yeah. It's still enormously popular with us folks. I think it's taylor swift's shave social media platforms five four taylor swift and juliette forty need frank ocean frank ocean proof sterling some cool folks on that when we were launching the verge and we didn't have a website yet all this just sort of like tech blogs on our personal blogs mine was on tumbler so use it a lot then and then like basically my last homeboy post is hey check out the for they failed to blog now for a number of years platform at that time that was so flexible you either could just use it. I mean i use it effectively elise replacement for wordpress host my personal log other people use it as a social network other people just i mean buzzfeed has done the best job of montage tumbler of any company company i think just look at it for content and re buzzed really oh yeah because they they rip off a lot of stuff from it <hes> well. There's your first task but yes. I'm curious. I mean it's so many different things things it has not been well tended to <hes> by. It's friday of corporate parents. You seem like you're very interested intending to where do you. Where do you wanna focus when you want to go and julie. Do you mind saying like you said. It's your second most used abbott. He used it for. I love the marvel movies like a joke at our office. There's nobody genuinely and like a huge huge. Phantom person always happens. I graduated from i also had a wordpress blog and the move to tumbler because i started writing writing and reading fan fiction and tumbler was like the go-to place along with like f f dot net now three but tumbler was like the go-to place vendome and arguably <music> i think still is so this was one of the things that really surprised me is. I think i thought as probably many do that. May have tumbler had kind of died under era under its variety of corporate parents and then actually being able to see some of the numbers including some of the numbers posts when the change our content policy. I was like wow this. This is still got a ton going on you know more that will be able to talk about more those numbers after the close because i think they're really really interesting but like i said it actually hasn't transferred over yet so i don't i want to speak out of turn but this huge engagement and like you said the people who are loved tumbler use it every day you know they have more daily active users than wordpress. Dot com has monthly the active users. They've really cracked a lot of the social side of it in terms of what we wanna. Do you know one thing that also impressed me was the team that people who were still there and working on tumbler familar really passionate about their community about with this offer could do. I think that they will. I know that they have a lot of things that they want to launch into. Some that are already fully built that that wall this process was going on. You know it didn't really make sense to add new things it changes service significantly or things like that but <hes> it's a very innovative team as well. No tumbler pioneered a lot of white later which show up on twitter instagram wordpress all sorts of other places so it's always been a very creative team and i really i really am looking forward to seeing that just unleashed because we are a very i mean i guess we're still a corporate parent but we're very friendly one and <hes> and we're all about blogging innovation publishing communities so i would love for tumbler to become a social alternative. You know that's one that's in line with automatics values around privacy privacy freedom of speech around publishing but has this sort of fun and friendliness of some of the other networks for us but without that kind of democracy destroying. I don't know what you wanna. Call it well. I think you wanna you wanna call it face. I mean i tweeted last night. I can imagine sitting independent and became a competitor heard twitter and facebook and google chasing those dollars in the market that attention is that your goal to go right at facebook and twitter with tumbler no not at all because i think that we've always had some different models so advertising is definitely something we're going to explore and we do definitely want to grow revenue right now. They're bringing a lot of money but you know long term i would say i'm also super experimenting with upgrades. Wordpress.com has always been an upgrade centric model. You know it's premium user free and then you can buy plans clans anywhere from forty dollars to forty dollars per year to get added functionality. I'm curious about turning on things like some of the e commerce functionality. We've been developing commerce memberships. Those things i think would be very very interesting to the community which currently kind of uses tumbler been often points people other places to do those things patriotic things like that member full so there's just so much to unlock their once we can kind of among the team so the tumbler community which i like very much a part of has watched as executives from yahoo rise in came in and try to grow something that they really didn't understand <hes> famously in two thousand sixteen yahoo executive reportedly said tumblers next p._d._f. That's what these taught which is now a major joke in the community but what we've seen happen and i'm sure like if you looked at tumbler last night we've seen this decline of trust between the community and whoever's in power because they've been burned so many times so i guess my question is like you're coming in. You're the new corporate overlord <hes>. How are you going to prove that like you know what tumbler for is and should be in a way that doesn't make them feel more alienated than they already are. I guess if anyone had nervous as now i would just say look at automatics. Fourteen eighteen year history were presses sixteen year history. We've kind of a long track record of these things and <hes> including building a lot of trust and an open source community which by the way is usually also very skeptical of any companies corporate involvement but really i would love for people the judge spider actions over the next eighteen months. You know there's call it two months to close. There's gonna be a a few months of integration and migrating data and servers and everything like that but then after that really look at what happens and ultimately that's how i always want to be judged by our actions so that's i think think brings up a a big thing in the community. An example of sort of the verizon disconnect obviously reisen decided adult content was going away tweeted last night if he you want policy changes here put pressure on the apps of apple and google. No one else has any leverage what do you what do you mean by that. This is a very nuanced issue. I mean i will say this. <hes> indeed bone our executive at our said. You have to ask about this. This is the whole thing like this is the whole issue with the web right. There's the open web which you guys build on <hes> <hes> than there is sort of the app store. World apple doesn't want adult content in the app store google. There's one adult content the app store. It sounds like a lot of tumbler. Users are still mobile. I i mean they're younger. They're definitely mobile. That seems like a big disconnect here and that i mean every layer i think of tax policy is implicated in that conversation. Yeah and some people said well l. Do need to be in the app store. Just have a web version but i mean apps really are it and i believe tumbler is one of the top thirty or forty absence social networking category gory. It's usually top couple hundred globally so their app is a big part of how people interact with it and and if you've ever been through after view process we've even running into this on wordpress before you know they'll search for porn. No actually it's not like these me on the homepage on the sign up. They're like really look for it and if they find something you can be taken down. You can get in trouble. There's and by the way it's arbitrary like maybe they something that you launched a year ago now. They're saying is not allowed like app. Stores can be kind of fickle and capricious but sometimes fill a little arbitrary and so if you're going to play but honestly i think if you're just going to be they're they're going to be on the app store. You wanna try to play by what they what they support the more nuanced and broader issue which is affecting every place that has usually turn into content. Is you know i think that pretty much. Everyone has moved beyond even when we used to be which is saying. Hey if it's first amendment if it's not illegal we don't get illegal ortega down. We're happy to host dan promoted and now everyone is kind of realizing like well. There's a lot of stuff. That's not illegal that you maybe don't want to spread everywhere else when you talk about the adult content on tumbler and the changes that they made this really like four or five issues mixed in there. There was definitely spam. I i was more active user tumbler. You know eight or nine years ago. When i logged back in checking it out my feed was full of <hes> nude pictures that were linking to a spam site and this wasn't wasn't something i had subscribed to but it was a tom sunblock that had been kind of taken over by spammers and they were just filling it no posting five times an hour with these kind of ads for some sort of chat side spam essentially so that no one wants right now that lots and lots of shades of gray in between and i do realize in definitely wanna learn more. There's been a lot of different communities on tumbler and you in a some of the baby might have been thrown out with the bathwater so wrestling you know like with any sort of policy or algorithm or a._i. Whatever is doing the filtering like oh you wanna evolve and make sure that you're blocking which you say you want to block and not catching anyone legit as well so i mean that brings i think the biggest sort of dilemma emma which was contained in your tweet you could do that stuff on the web and that's all the content policy make it maybe less restrictive there but in the app you you'd still kinda stuck inside of whatever apple google want. That's my understanding a another thing. People ask as well how how to read it in twitter. Get away with it because both have tons sons of adult content. I i don't know i'm actually curious. I've read it has like a a setting you do on the web that then if you turn that off you can get more adult stuff the app but i wonder if that just works because apple hasn't noticed yet or if it's actually like something that is allowed within their policies <hes>. I don't know i will say that overall. <hes> really thriving home for adult content is something that is probably best for like a company or a website which is totally dedicated to and a bunch of people a bunch of recites popped up after the policy change <hes> in december so i mean that might be a better future versus someplace where you know there might be a gray line or evolving policy. How do you think about i mean. Obviously you know. Wordpress is a huge too old service platform for all kinds of creators. It has obviously obviously different. Monetization model is as you said i mean entire massive. Media publications are more pressing individuals use wordpress. Do you expect that kind of scale for for tumbler or do you expect it to be kind of more of the social network that you're describing. I think the primary is our experience. Is that social network but there's no reason that including oh you know v._i._p. Are really high end user. Wordpress can't tap into that social network and a really native beautiful immigration one of the things that <hes> facebook did a kind of after after after cambridge analytic is they actually removed all they're posting a._p._i.'s so used to be able to post to wordpress and we would auto post tumbler twitter linked in facebook etcetera cetera and they turn off those a._p._i.'s after cambridge analytica kind of in the the hubbub that followed and no one really objected or talked about it too much but effectively actively they turned off the part that allowed you to put external content into the facebook newsfeed and everything and that was actually kind of like a a big change in how the open open web worked because previously all social networks had had some sort of way to get in and out tumbler for example uses port are feeds so you could follow things that weren't actually host on tumbler. I would love to bring features like that back because like i said i would love her tumbler to be a better part of the open web love for to support in. Maybe some of the new open web formats <music> are cash. What tanti cello quirks on open social network x._f._l. Was something we did way back in the day. There's lots of things that you can say <hes> have a purpose chris driven more open network at very curious how you know clients lee built on that that aren't necessarily operate in a more distributed fashion and more open source fashion russian and not necessarily even dependent on a centralized source or content policy earlier. I asked you about competition in terms of ad dollars but let me ask this question different way. It really sounds like you want to be a competitor to the big social networks in terms of user attention an openness politeness right like strength of community. Is that what you're the aiming for. I want to create a place on the web which is fun and supportive and substantial. You know your old school. Levies are like at one point blogging had a real magic to it. I feel for john. I use like kind of you'd have blog roles links and people would follow and comment and you you you keep up with things and it was a really really nice social network but that also was totally distributed and people that have their own designs and all sorts of things. I think we can bring some of that back and remastered in the mobile world. Which is where tempers also super strong. I'm also interested because when we think of tumbler it so easy to look at it with <hes> rose through center glasses says and i mean this is someone who uses it and loves it but tumbler has a bunch of major issues. It's seen a huge rise in extreme ideology on the platform that tumbler tied to address <hes> it has seen major issues around mass shootings and the way that they glorify shooters that they've had to address and the sentiment on tumbler is not dissimilar to the sentiment on twitter. Which is you know. Constantly like jack dorsey band the nazis like why is this still a thing on this platform and tumbler has that on his on inside as as well as become this huge issue. I just get talked about as much because it's not as big as twitter so my question to you is do you plan to actively go in and like try to clean this sub or are you just going to kind of leave. It be in the way that verizon yahoo have for so long <music> the toughest question will how are you planning to do it because that would require hiring moderators <hes> there's a lot of investment doesn't goes into cleaning up the site. Have you heard of those problems on wordpress dot com recently <hes> no there you go but i would not call wordpress a social network in the way that tumbler is but but probably gets as much if not more published it. These are very very difficult problem so i do not want to trivialize or say that anything even if you work really hard on it will be one hundred percent but i do think that one of the things that incites me is tara has a great trust and safety team so does the rest of automatic that works on wordpress dot com and everything else we produce so these teams have have a lot of overlap and i'm looking forward to them working together thing. It's probably the first things that we try to harmonize cross acquisition say hey we're doing ninety nine percent similar work <hes> <hes> policies are consistent and also what have you figured out some of our section really amazing automated tools that we don't have press dot com that works really well and what what have we sort of navigated with kinda the the nuance of content that people host on wordpress and how can we use that to inform and encourage a healthy community munity on tumblers. Well you see these from coming together it. I just got the sense that you you intend to keep them apart. Which makes sense right. One is very user sure centric social network the other one is a publishing platform but do you envision them coming ever closer together or more on sort of the policies procedures back inside. I think there's a lot of overlap overlap in what both do i would love for them to inter operate. I do believe that long-term. There's <hes> there's an opportunity to merge it back and technology so that temblor actually powered by wordpress on the back end 'cause wordpress the press we think of it as an open web operating system powers thirty four percent of websites now <hes> it should be able to power everything that tumbler does but that sort of what i would call the tumbler app the user experienced the dashboard that will always be its own unique thing and evolve in its own way because it is it is something distinct from everything else on the web and that's what i think is one of the most interesting thing things about tom ver as a unique comic brand that i'm looking forward to being around for decades to come. It has something that's just a different. You know it's funny because almost every social network network evolved to incorporate forms of blogging whether it was micro blogging photo blogging audio blogging which is podcasting like these are all kinds of forms of things that were originally pioneered appeared on blogging yet and all these things become so balkanised. I think it's very very interesting to see if you can bring them together. A bit as tumbler post formats do what people were kind of experienced people can create for themselves and really making it something where they choose what they follow and not just being algorithm mickley pushed. Whatever is the most incendiary thing that might be in their feet. What is it tweet storm but enforce paragraph breaks out riders. That's i think it's just a fact. I'm getting some strong. Google reader vibes from do not like that. You're going to build an r._s._s. reader but google reader it still lamented. It's gone but it it was the application that brought together an entire rico system of logs. Do you see that role as long vacated. Maybe the last few the customer on earth do you see that role. Is something that you can feel. I think that there's something super valuable arguable there and when we think of time well spent online when you think about people getting more control over how they put their attention in their time think about about their data or are they investing their kind of data into place where it can come back out where benefit stem as much if not more benefits whoever's hosting them or whatever software they using do they. They have true ownership. These are all things that i think never go out of style. We have <hes> sort of peaks and troughs of openness on the web. I think we're xingu xingu trough and if you think two thousand sixteen maybe was the peak of the closed social networks and proprietary software. We are seeing a incredible growth of open source of distributed systems. Whether that's an information whether that's in blogging let's see mrs wordpress with money with crypto and everything related to that these are powerful revolutions that are going to play out over the next fifteen to twenty years but it's only gonna go from here in my opinion and this is also my life's work so i've been working on this for sixteen years. I hope to work on these issues literally the rest of my life so i'm gonna keep working to create the kind of web that if i ever have children that i want i want them to grow up with matt quickly for all you said you wanted to introduce more advertising tumbler right like you wanted to bring that in as a revenue means i don't know of more as the best word but i do think that the advertising they did do is significantly lower than what you would make significant less than what you would expect for the amount of traffic and audience they have right so the interesting go tumbler quick background. I cover to a lot. Is that tumbler. I feel like we'll run into or could run into the issue which is the community was so different than what it was pre three all these influence of ads because the site had changed our to ensure that advertisers were happy which is natural but tumbler is such a niche audience still still gets away with being so weird. That's why people still love it. It's weird whether it's fandom or it's like just weirdness in general. Do you worry about the idea of bringing in this kind of you've add structures along but the bringing it adds will affect the community will affect how people view and use the site. I think there's an opportunity there. <hes> understand is right now. Most of the ads are kind of programmatic which means can network ads. It's not where say a movie studio or for sort of a specific advertiser who really understand tumbler. Audience is saying this is who we want to reach and with a message we want to target to them specifically so that's an experiment of course but i have high hopes that a as you describe it the weirdness what i would describe as the beauty of the community is actually really really appealing and there's people there that we could do a good job with advertising now. I will also catch up same automatic is not an advertising company where subscription and upgrades company so perhaps advertising thing doesn't work out and it's all more of a a subscription based. I think doc can be really healthy and really positive as well. I want out of that. A little bit you run a publishing platform like i said it scales to all kinds of users we run one to the chorus doesn't have nearly as many customers is is where press but one really good website dot com at least one. There's some other ones with this company in pretty good. It's a hard time for like media monetization and we you mentioned earlier. Buzzfeed rips off tumbler a lot. I think one of the things that i see is okay. Maybe the buzzfeed's of the world can scrape by with a bunch of tumbler posts but the people who make this stuff on tumbler rarely get paid for their work and if the advertising there's work and he started charging upgrades subscriptions nashville like charging them to make and consume that work. How do you think about the relationship to creators like is desert. Maybe it's the big question you haven't thought about it but is there. Is there a way to sort of empower and compensate the tumbler such a force of culture. Is there a waited to give back to it in a in a way that isn't just like transfer value to to buzzfeed totally <hes>. Let me talk about what we do for that on wordpress dot com so one <hes> we have trust com- upgrades shaken by and you get additional customize ability and yes is a cost but you can get so much more power control oversight including things like your own domain name. It's not bad. It's you know it's a couple a week worth of starbucks or something you know. It's not a huge investment for your complete complete online presence. We have a program called adds that allows people to run ads. We essentially bundle everyone together do really vance things like header bidding and other things and sure quality polity and do a revenue share so you can have your own ads on the site and make money from that traffic. We've also been launching features around monetization or e commerce so there's a simple payments button this a membership stuff. That's launching soon all the way up to full commerce which you can build stores do over one hundred million a year in annual revenue built on commerce so again from the simple almost pay pal like pay me now button all the way up to sophisticated stores are things you can do on work best and we see they they north of ten billion of transactions a year ago through that and growing fast so i would love to open some of that up <hes> and to the tumbler community leaser things we built already. How it fits or works for tumbler is really going to be up to that team. They understand that user base in that community <hes> better anyone else in the world so i'm very curious to see how using some of the raw materials in the technical things that we've already built inside the rest of automatic how they think that will fit the best with the <hes> with the community i personally would be really excited about memberships or some sort of recurring payment so like four ninety nine a month or whatever you'd get <unk> exclusive type of content like essentially what youtube and paid your honor doing right now or just a way to support <hes> creator that you love you know. Have you ever kevin kelly's <hes> seminal essay. It's true fans. I talk about one thousand fans location you. I would say once a week this that's awesome. Maybe we can put it in the show notes or something. Everyone should read it. It's it's amazing. It's <hes>. Do you want some. Yes so kevin kelly says <hes>. If you're a creator on the internet you only one thousand true fans who by every single thing that you make <hes> in that scale i think his his three examples is your ear band right. I always say you need a hundred thousand fans. That's by weight depends on the price point. I'm a capitalist at heart. My price point is like how do we get a boat but kidding. We're seeing so many cool examples of this one of my favorites because he used to be a colleague of mine automatic is i've been thompson over trajectory yeah but there's there's tons of other examples particularly in the creative side of things not that what he doesn't secretive more like music art etc that <hes> yeah. I think that this would be a really amazing way. Wait for a community interact and for people who might just mostly consume to also have a way through the app to support their favorite people. I mean that's super interesting. I it's fun into rethink tumbler in this moment as is something is a powerful force in the creative ecosystem. When i think for so long it's been it's been withering hiring. I mean it's just obviously been tended to have you talked to that team yet like all two hundred of them. Have you had the big all hands. Hey where you know. We're the new kids as we promise not to ruin it more. We just did that on monday. <hes> i'm actually <hes> at a seminar for aspen institute this week so i wasn't able to be there in person but but i will be heading there to meet the team in person next week and i'm really looking forward to it so we've got to spend a lot of time with the execs there <hes> through the whole process but it was it was a secret process so so the rest of the folks. I'm going to office hours really going to try to meet and listen to as much as possible. Also you know other folks who have been involved with before one of automatics investors insight type venture partners devon was actually invested tumbler and he saw the tweets from marco and david karp and bijon. I really want to meet them and talk to them and learn from them where they feel like things could get better where maybe things took around turn how they think tumbler should evolve in today's world like nick. There's so much <hes> so much intelligence at the edges and wisdom and <hes> the team that that's i think what we really want us to inform the next chapters. How how big is automatic automatic. Automatic is about nine hundred fifty people now so it's a it's a pretty significant addition of staff. Yeah it is by far our biggest acquisition both in terms of investment and people in your holding onto everybody. Bring the whole team over. That's great are you. Are you gonna try to integrate your engineering team during leaving the letter first so i would think of we've done a few acquisitions like this before you wanna integrate gently so like look at where things make sense and do that first shows it says and then start to expand long-term like i i said there's a lot of overlap between dot com tumbler. There's also a lot of things that are totally different. I could see being independent kind of forever so but <hes> especially weekly from an engineering point of view i am it's sad to build more things using kind of <hes> react and a._p._i.'s that might actually reusable across them so even though we could would have some some co-chairing crossed apps as wordpress.com including clips which is kind of our fun and is one hundred percent open source so that's all there and we can see what kind of co-chairing or maybe we can open source on the side the open source tumbler that would be pretty cool last question. It's another way up how soon until verizon's weird ad tracking pixels are gone from tumbler. <hes> that's a good question so i would say that for all of those things expect things to be canada same until we do the clothes and then you know after post close things about being october will really start to look at dr system so the automatic hasn't <unk> g._d._p. Are and i you tracking. Pixels were very privacy. Focused company like we're really start to try to integrate with tumbler does with what we've found works really well on wordpress dot com long read simple loan or the products. I've just say simple. That is my favorite automatic in this. I mean it's like it's alert. It's like lied. It's the thing i use the most so thank you. I really appreciate it the verge <hes> right above it as well. You know it is funny because the criticism is also what we love about it in that it doesn't do a lot of other things we try to keep it simple not not fancy or complex so thank you and i hope he knows. We've actually been investing a lot in that as well. There's been a lot adopt a simple now that's great. <hes> well wants to know when an encryption is coming but just let us know some other time okay. Here's my actual last question. You've spoken into the employees of tumbler. This is an opportunity on the show to talk to the people houston community. What is the thing that you want them to know the most well i i would say thank you for are using tumbler and sticking with it <hes> second i would say i hope and believe that tempers best days are actually ahead of that you know as an independent company in as part of independent company it has opportunity to be responsive agile and creator centric and <hes> in a way that you know it might might have been constrained in some way since two thousand thirteen so stick around try it out and keep an eye out especially over the next six to twelve months for some of the new stuff. That's coming awesome. Oh thank you so much matheny s._n._l. And we caught you at the end of the day. We really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Both my thanks to matt mom lacey of automatic and now this was an emergency verge cast episode. I am not on the cheshire this week. It'll be running that one see how it goes on vacation. We'll be back next tuesday with an interview friday. The chechen we go right into the heart of gadget sees its common summer's almost over get ready hi automatically editor in chief of eater and i am daniel janina up producer here at eater and we're here to tell you about our brand new podcast us digest every week on the show we dive into the weirdest funniest and most important stories in the world food with the inside scoop from the biggest names in the industry an expert insights from the eater newsroom. It's really fun time so i would say subscribe to eaters. I i just for free today on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast app.

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Samsung Galaxy S20's camera issues and Bob Iger steps down as Disney CEO

The Vergecast

1:26:09 hr | 11 months ago

Samsung Galaxy S20's camera issues and Bob Iger steps down as Disney CEO

"This week on the virtuous we go deep on the Galaxy s twenty ultra. What's going on Camera Julie? Alexander joins us to talk about the big changes at the top of Disney. Do a grab bag news from NBC. It's fun it's a virtuous come it's up to the verge has brought to you by nerdwallet. Most people out there you have a ton of financial questions might be keeping you up at night wondering how to start. Investing thinking about opening a rewards credit card. Whatever your money questions might be the experts at nerdwallet. Have you covered their legitimate? Money nerds obsessed with this stuff and they make it easy to understand any complex financial question. Check out their calculators and simple side by side comparison tools. Starting sense of your options for all your money questions turned the nerds at Nerdwallet DOT com. Hello I cast flagship. Podcast of the negatives might supervision where there is such thing as non winning podcast we. We've all gathered together in New York ourselves. I'M A FRIEND. Neil bone is in New York not a bending it away Miller's in New York. Hello we're all here is it. A sentence mega pixel is that A. Is that how you would say the Center Mega Mega Mega? Well it's it's been a busy week but I I would say our week has been dominated. Debtors life has been dominated by the galaxy. S Twenty ultra. Here's the thing that I will say to you. It would be nice to review a flagship premier amazing new expensive. Samsung phone without turning into dramatic fiasco as the is a person who was like. I gotta get through an hour of conversation. I I like the dramatic content. Yeah all right can be just trying to set some stage okay. Deeter bone works at the verge. Yes you review a lot of phones do I would say to lately. Trend is big companies messing with how phones are reviewed. Okay Yeah Little. Bit Right. So like Like Walt Mossberg Eastern Virginia along distinguished career at the Wall Street Journal. For most of that time a product would come out they would like someone would announce it. Yeah then they would give one to reviewers. Yep some time would pass yup in embargo with lift. Yes while would have been ago. She had an embargo like eight hours. Before hours you'll driving US crazy as young pups so walter. Viewed go out and then go out the next day but that's usually what happens fair. That is the standard format for all products. You nounce it. You make big thing you bring in a bunch of reporters and reviewers pretty thin. He gave the reviewers Rian. It's they go out in. The world used the product. You'd much calls about what they're seeing what they're not seeing the review other reviews trump today. I'm sure anybody listening to this. Has Been aware of like fifty reviews. Getting troppled saint time. Yeah this year has not featured that pattern to a large extent. Yeah and in this discussion. You might be tempted to think that we're just demanding that things go back to the good old days when you know we knew what the rules are Walton Bark and this is at this is just like the companies are trying to figure out what they want like how they want the phone reviews to work in a world that is increasingly got like influences and Instagram youtubers. That may or may not follow journalistic standards. Everybody that we like. Follow in talk about tends to. They've got you know. Just other ways that their phones get out in the world and so they're trying to figure out how to contend with that so sometimes there's like special like after the main announce an event there's like a special influence or event where they show up and have like a day with thing a room or whatever and other times. What's happening more and more is they'll just released the thing either to reviewers on the day it starts selling or they'll give the reviewers like yeah. Just start writing embargo. Whatever you want we then we all have to sort of like like a showdown like we all like look at each other in the virtual saloon. That is twitter. And we're like when are you GONNA draw? We decide how long but it's nice because then you get you get to choose how long you are going to spend reviewing a thing instead of trying to hit the embargo that you know everybody's going to hit but it also means that there's this weird like how quickly he should've written. How much time should you spend with it and Why did they choose to do it this way? You have this thing in the back of your mind when a movie gets released With no reviews. You know it's bad right. The movie studio wants to have a chance for like the first three days to go to get move ticket sales before word of mouth is like. Oh I know this is bad and I don't know whether that rule applies to phones or not. I actually really don't yeah. I think the the broad thing you're saying is true. That media landscape has dramatically changed for everything. When you're launching a product you want maximum exposure. In the old days of like two years ago reviewers are the ones we're gonNA your product Like there was not an ecosystem of other people following a variety of other rules. They were going to be a key landmark on the path to more expensive. Yeah we I mean there wasn't like I dunno medium. Yeah now there's a lot of people who like you can see the phone too and they'll just like produce some content around it fine like you can. You can go find a famous actor and be like. Here's a phone. We Post Five instagram photos of you. Being happy with it and do it so we can clarify it a little bit of the stakes here you. Can you clarify the trade off between I have a phone for twenty four hours what can I say definitively about it versus? I have a week like you know. What is that trade off? Oh I mean with the week you are more likely to discover bugs You have a much better sense of battery life much better sense of like performance over time you settle in with the thing. There's things that you might not notice in the first day like is the button actually convenient or not is the you know. Whatever weird way that it unlocks or that the the way the home screen works are like. Is this new setting to do this thing actually useful or not that you'll try it for the first day but like it's like trying new food. I maintain that you should before you project a food and say hate that food. You should eat it three times the first time. It's like octopus. I mean I guess the second time is like okay. I tried it once. I got through it but Try it again. We'll see see if I if I had actually maybe was wrong the first time I gotTa have and then the third time is like you know I really hate that thing but just maybe maybe. He was made poorly the first couple of tomatoes for three. This is how I approach pop music. I almost always dislike every single new pop song I hear. Yeah and then a few of them here on the second time at starbucks. That's how they get your your and then the third time. We're completely must-listen qualify. Probably the first person ever plato to me if I believe this okay. We should talk about the phone. Talk about the phone. All of this was like a big setup. A twenty twenty theme is big companies with the standard review procedure. Right that has really determined a lot of how reviews get made in the world for a very long time. Lata monkeying the first wave which was a disaster. I hope everybody learned. Their lesson was just to not give review units out and then dealer could discover that. The folding phone's broken so we tried that. Approach with the s twenty. They gave you the phone known bargo which is better or worse the embargo reasonably Rocco's creates a sense of fairness. Yeah right handed embargo. Someone's going to publish it the first day. Yeah in that one might not be any good. And you don't get to the person who's going to wait a week and do all. The rigorous testing is at a disadvantage. Well so the way it happens. A lot of people like a rolling reviews or like constantly updating reviews And I think that's totally fine We I tend to not like doing that because my first impression once. I've said it if I want to backtrack on it or I have something else to say about it I just. I don't know I'm slow. I like to like form a complete thought. Instead of telling you half thought that's twitter's for with Typos. Yeah tell you have thoughts on twitter all day long. Free twitter makes money. Yeah that's the real. Rub It okay. Let's say you got the phone. No embargo took you while your view is out yes dramatic so the one on this whole tangent about not a bidding and how. The camera works before so. I don't want to do that again. But the core of this phone is. It's five G. It's got a huge screen to the high refresh rate and it has an all new camera system that is radical departure in many ways from the way that smartphone cameras have worked before and as the biggest battery. Huge higher frustrates screened knocked. It out of the Park Samsung wins. We're making the best display on a smartphone. Yep just did it's great. I love it. The huge battery solves whatever? Problems might come from any number of things five G. draining draining your Your download your battery. Because it's fast no problem. Excuse me a battery which there was something. Higher frustrates screen. Del Problem. Whatever you do like the the papers over many problems because it's just a big ass battery create huge win five g you know it's five. G. It exists finding apologised. Ran a speech on thirteen down. Not Yeah you gotta go out to the street corner and standing one particular spot and then like literally praying motion the phone to change everything will just be more mindful. T. Mobile Five G. New York is mid band and so you can get better speed sort of everywhere. But it's not radically better anyway. I haven't got any robots surgery. He don't buy it because it's the five G. phones going to get it. It's got this new. Snap age sixty five processor That doesn't seem to me to radically change. Experience presumably a dozen that like allows them to do a bunch of stuff that like they couldn't otherwise. Do that frustrates screen or whatever. But the big big. Bet The differentiating thing especially on the twenty ultra is the one hundred eight megapixel camera and it has two problems one of which Everyone has experienced. Which is that. It has a hard time. Auto FOCUSING HUNTS FOR FOCUS. And you really see video You'll see it in photos but photos is actually. It took me a minute to discover it to more than a data discovered. Actually because I just assumed that you know I'm not that great if tougher which makes me a great Of Phone camera reviewer in some ways because like if they can make me take good photos and that's a good sign but I was getting a lot of focus focus photos and I was just like I must. I must be bad this But no it's actually as bad autofocus. That is one of those things. Take us on myself. Yeah all right. Always blame yourself But then the second thing and this is a little bit harder to convey even when I post photos on the website is everybody has a different set of thing and I could put up like an entire gallery might do that later but with faces in particular the assumptions that you can make about what the phone will do go completely out the window. So you you learn. A phone's camera will light things. In a certain way we color things in a certain way. You get a sense of what it's going to do so that you can trust it and then as soon as it sees a face it's like had just kidding we're going to change everything. This is the really jarring illustration in your review where You taking a picture of a guy he's looking at you. Yep He looks kind of orange a little little fuzzy yeah and then when he looks at forty five degree he it's the pictures way darker sharper completely different. Yeah and beauty mode is a thing. Skin lightening is a thing. It's a thing that often has like Like racial undertones. That are problematic We actually very specifically took lots of photos of lots of different people. Lots of different skin tones and do not think that Samsung is doing anything inappropriate in that regard tone but it is making these like lighting and white balance choices that are just impossible to predict when you see a face It might go green and Michael Yellow. Who knows it wants to get rid of shadows and so it just brings up. Mid Tones shadows way too much And then the worst one for me is the softening it does. It runs a softening filter on faces to get rid of like a little bit of blemishes. And I'm okay in principle with a camera doing all of those things including and especially the softening but there should be a button that tells you that it's happening and you should be able to turn it off and there just isn't that for the main camera it's just on. We can use like a pro mode. You can turn on pro mode but then like you're like you're going to have to promote every time in promote makes you turn on the set all the settings well the settings are all basically on auto and promote so like you could theoretically go to. Promo take the photo and it's like functionally equivalent to just leaving it. An auto basically sort of maybe the problem but not to do that. Everyone's going to hit the shutter button. Yeah the defaults matter the most these cameras like we review every camera with like a variety of pro camera APPs. Yeah it doesn't count. It's so to be clear Everybody does this faces. Yes this is correct so if apple when it sees a face the iphone apple literally calls it realizing the face they will re expose the face the you all their fancy competition frog for your the I there like we know this scene. We know what it should look like. We will face or to. Yeah it's the whole. What is a photo conversation like? They're they're sort of generating an image. That's closer to what they think. It should look like Google. Does this. Everybody's kind of re metering and re exposing especially HDR. Samsung is doing extremely aggressively. Yes To the point where turning your head. Forty five degrees produces just a dramatically different photo which. I don't really know what's going on here. It's it's hard to tell but it seems like Samsung's person detection. Ai Like only sees a person when you're looking at the camera and if you just think turn away the person like a break it's a totally different metering mode. If you just turn your ad that seems extremely like it's just confused about what it's looking at and then it is so so dramatic when it does seem that face the you end up with like just. It's just a weird looking photo. It's just too much and I didn't believe the believe me dramatic fiasco part one. Is I if we ask? It was a localized the DMZ between indeed just like is that happening is like many many more slacks have arrived forty five more photos. There's light room album. I was on a plane. I don't Oh and I was like you. Can't you can't look at this when you're on a plane because Google crushes there at the airport like locally so downloading files like looking at photos of detour on a plane. The people sitting next to me in the way he's looking at that guy but it's it's it's just obviously there. Yeah and then. There's the second part which I don't think it's quite the metering stuff it's like Samsung's look is still Samsung's look and they've toned it down a little bit. Yeah but the Combo Platter of the unpredictable metering and the focus and Samsung's look yeah is not good right and it it not being good when it's like to me. It's the most important feature of this phone to other people might be the five year the size but to me. It's that As Twenty plus right or yes twenty Which we will review but but like Google throws imaging algorithms at stock censor. Yeah in what they get out of. It is rock solid consistency. Yes right like a pixel photo. Looks like a Pixel photo. I think often produces winners. Like in just a comparison. I often prefer the Pixel photo. Apples gotten really good. This year. They there's sort of less consistent. I Dunno diffusion ever actually did anything. Yeah seems like maybe actually shipped it like? I don't even know there's no way to towel. There's not even a setting. It's not like I've been photos. Look very good on balance They've got a better like they're up there. Yeah Right. Samsung is inconsistent and weird. Looking is not a competitive zone to be. They have they do take photos. That are up there much of the time. But it's the inconsistency that's the problem and the the big swing of we're GONNA go one hundred eight megapixel camera. I think it's forty eight on the telephone. But it's forty on the Selfie and other bending and all the other stuff and you could take one hundred and eight megapixel photo mosaics all that extra stuff. I don't know how actually actually worth it was I you maybe you get the telephoto. Because that's like the other reason to get the ultra periscope blends with telephoto and I think at up to thirty x which is very impressive It produces good enough photos and at ten x eight x technically. Because that's how far the pixel goes so that's right tested it It wins hands down every time. Yeah like if you're doing if you're taking something eight x Ray and you're zooming in that far. The only thing that will do better on a is not a phone like a camera Zoom Lens on a real camera I did on the Sony. Arc's one hundred seven which has got a little two hundred you know. Yeah Zoom Lens on it but yeah like that is an automated unmitigated win but the question is what do you blame on like the new technology? Right is the autofocus function of the way that they're choosing to do phase detector. Whatever on one hundred eight megapixel sensor I think the answer might be yes but maybe they can fix it because that's the next part it's just. They've finally promised a software update to me like twelve hours reviewing up. Wait CAN I. Can I talk about that part? You're going to have much more. I'm just GonNa let you have emotions. Try step is through the canal. Okay so there's no embargo this is where we all came back all that the five minutes of inside baseball we did before this began. Yeah there's no embargo right so Rae Won- and Evan Rogers X. Person Did a really in-depth review the camera for input. They found autofocus issue. Yup Evan He was tweeting. He thinks the colors a little weird. Yep Okay but they published before everybody else. They were the first ones out the gate and to their credit. They caught the auto focus. It caught the focused. Yup Sasha's Siegen a PC MAG goes up. The I think the next day debuted. I think must have been the next day window. Great phone shouldn't spend this much money and so they fix the autofocus issue. Yeah I would say at this point. Samsung is like freaking out By this time I had already been on the phone with Samsung for like a half an hour being like here. All the problems indeed are has not yet looked at the autofocus issue. I have but I at this point. I was when when input up I was like having doubts and I actually at some point tweeted like does it may have been after their thing went up But I still wasn't one hundred center if it was like I was dumb or I'd like the hadn't learned the how of this camera because every cameras different criticism is at this point. It's a Lotta slack about the faces and the callers consistency. So He's been on the phone with Samsung with about that stuff. Yes and then put in P. C. MAG or like autofocus as bad. Yup I think at this point of safe to say like okay. Now we're like we're reporting the review like he's back on the phone and then Samson night was will we're always improving improving our cameras so When I called them Monday I think it was like twenty minutes. Here's what I'm seeing Blah Blah like. Yep Okay that's interesting good feedback and it was like okay anything else guys. Okay and so the statement that they would That they were planning a future update not necessarily a pre store release update just someday in the future. They will update the software to do unspecified things. came in just before the review. So I have to make a choice like one. Do I like wait for this thing someday in the future or do I like I just go? I like this is what I experienced on the phone. Maybe there'll be an update in the future. Go and like. I chose to do that in part because as Neil I said. I've reviewed a lot phones. Nikolai you've reviewed a lot of phones. one phone. Yeah what what happens when a company says we'll fix the camera with a software update never had and never ever never. I'm sorry maybe you can tell me. There is one time when one Nokia phone one plus did manage to slightly improve some some pretty serious issues a couple years ago the only Delta is like if the if when you put the shutter button the phone lights on fire fix that like it's like that you like the cameras and working generates corrupt issues aircraft files. Okay you can fix that in software the the video recording we forgot to turn on four K. sixty whoops okay. We've sulfur fixes a bug. Yep never does it actually change the quality of the camera that is one of the reasons I published. The one thing to say is like these seem the face filter filter stuff seems like a eminently fixable problem just like turn up down right whether or not they can fix. The auto focus is an open question and this gets more complicated. And I'm just GonNa say a thing and some people are GonNa get mad but let me finish the sentence. Samsung is not apple. And what that means. Let me finish. Is that apple is a monolith they are they are they are like centralized control everything and like the messaging is on point and everyone is in lockstep and everyone knows what's happening and what to say and Samsung is just like there's there's a bunch of divisions there's a bunch of people that aren't talked to other people so like there's apparently software update in Korea that may or may not be newer than the firm where I have that may or may not Address the autofocus issue. It's unclear I had a journalist from France. Say that he was told Like on Friday that suffer update was coming. Which is very confusing because I talked to them on Monday for a half an hour. What's going on? So all of that's fine but just a lot of people sort of tweet or we'll talk definitively that they know a thing about. Samsung but Samsung is not one thing. It's it's so many say Samsung. It's not knowable fundamentally not no yeah there many things to many people who work at. Samsung often do not know what Samsung is doing That's just they're just a big sprawling Like Multinational Corporation doesn't talk to itself very well. Which isn't some times which is funny because they make phone. Yeah but there's a benefit to that sometimes because they like they're willing to try stuff and do stuff but every now and then it's not a benefit because it's like what's going on with this fourteen hundred dollars Saito sir. Yeah which is a huge company and it is also true that the phone like a Samsung Galaxy S. Twenty is not a single product correct. It is a different product every carrier in every market Like for Isan gets its own like skew. Its Own Weird. Apps sprint gets its own customization. Like they're just like they make multiple multiple the logistics. That Samsung has to go through to get one of these phones out out the door at about the same day across the world is truly mind boggling. I I think it is probably like more of an accomplishment than what apple does what the iphone in some ways is there any indication yet if the ultras the only one with no we don't know yet to see any reviews of irregular galaxy s twenty s twenty plus so again the simple explanation for the differing software? Update things that we've which is in Korea. There's an update. The people who've been told about the supposed to be coming in France French. Journalists have destroyed have been told an update that fixes a bunch of camera issues are coming in the United States. So we don't know what's going on. Yeah you could just blame it as A. It's a sprawling global corporation arms a huge logistics challenge. They solve credibly or it is a multinational disinformation conspiracy aimed at theatre or you could be biased off. Think about if you're hype for this phone I. I don't want to think that I do not like this. I love this song. I'm concerned about the camera. And if they issuing a software update that fixes the camera I will be the happiest person that'LL BE S. I'll be very excited because I think that other than that. This thing is like very very impressive. So if you're excited for this phone don't be like Ugh like just wait and see if they do something. Don't wait too long because you know camera. Updates duffin don't pan out but never buy any product on the basis of promise exactly software update will never come and it will never do what you think it will. Yep there's just it is just true. The thing that I keep thinking about though is like the the thing the thing that I make on a regular basis that requires the most logistics is a youtube video. We have incredible directors and producers And they're very good at editing And they put so much more work into making thing that I do like punching words and when we're making this thing there's no take backs like it's you you can maybe do content replace every now and then but like you published a thing and you can't like Eddie Youtube it's youtube. Yeah so you like you want to make sure there aren't any problems you while you watch it watch it down you look for whatever you can And when something goes up on YouTube That is like it's not the highest quality or like. I said a thing and I kind of flubbed the line or whatever I definitely know before you've seen it I've seen it. I'm like well it's too much. I can't I can't fix it. We'd have to reshoot too many things it's going it's going out the door. I have to assume that inside Samsung. They knew the Deafen. You write the definitions okay. I've always wondered when when there's an obvious failure. Well let's let's let's say even simpler example Right there's the photo re-lighting there's the skin smoothing which has all kinds of cultural implications. Okay that's very subjective. Even if I think it's objective about but like whatever you're looking at it you're like we think a lot of people are GonNa like the way this photo looks. Then there's the zoom we have the printed in giant letters on the back of this phone one hundred space zoom zoom it to one hundred x you like. That looks horrible. So he everyone in the world can just be like. I wonder what hundred and you do it. You don't need some fancied photography skill or like professionalize. You're like this photo side. Yeah except every time I showed it somebody. They always what wo- they get. They get to have people go. Whoa short. That's what it's for. The thirty x is the one that's actually useful. The tax is great again. The better than the competition Thirty X is like usable. The hundred experts so that they can have people go. I think they could have done that at thirty X SO DO I. But it's it's it's cool though because it's showing you the maximum amount of information that this sensor can possibly obtain and it's not like every so actually it's not because they're they're doing lots and lots cropping so the way that the pixel gets the photos. They take a bunch of photos and easier handshake together more data and what is the photo etc etc? Samsung is taking lots of conversations. So much you know what is the essential philosophical as you as you are well aware. Samsung is also doing multiple photos. But what they're really doing. Is this curious? Mix of like Zooming and then sensor cropping. That's why they picked a high megapixel sensor they can do the bidding whatever. But when you start zooming in they can just crop down and still have a ton of mega pixels. Because there's a ton of mega pixels to work with. But it's just echoed a truck. That is a horrible photo. Sure but I mean this is one of the worst photos ever taken. It's like Brennan Very Far Away. Yeah it's like okay. It's like if I am a international spy. You know Microsoft Microphone. That works via like an aerosol spray spray on an object and now. I've got a microphone and I can listen remotely right like I'm not mad that it's not like dolby quality audio. I'm I'm proud of my achievement. I mean yeah sure like I understand that this is not comparable to a good photo of you being close to attract Yep but right now my phone can't get that Yup so outside bioterror. There's a dog park here New York and I saw dog frolicking and I was like. Oh this is a great opportunity to see if like what zoom does a thing. That's moving around so zooming in dog tried to get the shot shaky. Whatever and I couldn't get a shot of just the dog I I assume they took the shot like the owner. Watan frame that I hadn't really. They were like across the park and they went to go get their dog And then I like completely unintentionally. I just taken like this really creepy spy. I don't want this is going to be seeing the producing unusable product I think that if anybody thinks that they're going to get something that they're Gonna. WanNa like treasure forever out of one hundred zoom there Of Him. Yeah which is fine and then you can just like crop that photo. Yeah and that's what the hundred X.'s. In it looks better than if you try to take the photo one hundred six hundred access. That's thirty accent. I just zoomed in better. It's obviously better. Yeah it's just like they it's printed it on the back of the phone they did. They printed up one hundred. They're inviting you to try. This feature. There are very proud of it and then it's not there and I think that's the one where when you're like they had to know They definitely knew when they decided to printed on the back of the phone. Yeah but some engineer at Samsung like. I don't think we should do this Well it's something that struck me with your view. You're talking about like this it. Some ways is a gentleman device. Yeah I think so and that makes a lot of sense with this camera. Where like because a lot of what makes a flagship phone so good? Yeah is that a fudge phone has everything that the last model got right and then also some more right but when you completely replace apart and you have kind of a new image processing pipeline. You don't necessarily get to build on your prior successes. Theoretically there is more upside to Samsung's Like theory of how camera smartphone camera could work here than there is on Google trying to apply ever better You know software to You know bargain Bin Censor Yeah like if they can start. Continue to do interesting. Things with like combining on combining the sub pixels hundred mega pixels and they can like up there software game a little bit and you know just roll down the line. Theoretically like this could be like the this could be a step change. That's what they wanted to argue. They just they didn't finish it. Maybe they never will because Samsung but There's more potential upside here. They just haven't achieved it so and of course Google and apple aren't gonNA stop. There could keep making stuff. But that's like on two fronts. They're fighting this war in two fronts. One it is clear to me right now. And I I I do think this is debatable. But it feels clear to me. That on the computational photography smart hd our side of the world apple or firmly in the lead yes they are they are doing more with processing off relatively stock ish. Sensors than Samsung is able to do with their socks. Samson is throwing a bunch of hardware at this problem Bigger sensor not binning a periscope zoom lens lots of hardware being thrown at this problem. They still do not have the software chops to pull it off. Even if they're trying to do something totally different right. They're trying to. They're trying to process that censor something. That's better yeah. The the software problem solving is now different in like they have to solve the same problem. That apple apple and Google or solving and they also now have to solve this other problem that they've created for themselves but again if they can do what are both. I think that I think that the sensor is interesting. I think that they actually do have more upside but they have to suffer. I just took a hundred mega hundred zoom. This is tennis trach. Yeah that's just a person in a building. I just see a ghost. I don't know God so I I would say the. Here's the flag there. There are lots of well not lots. But there are several hundred eight megapixel sensor cameras in the world. Yes none of them have been good right so this if if that is indeed a different class of problem how do we make this sensor good well? Samsung de slightly different sensor different methodologies. The way the sensor works those other. Cameras Yeah. I think that this is better than those from what we've heard I haven't actually used the other hundred megapixel camera so I don't know for sure But it's harder problem to solve them. getting told me Pixel photo. Good Yeah and I just think that's like the they're the two problems are right next to each other. Yeah One how do we get a great photo out of the big harbour censor to how do we do all the fancy? Hdr computational photography stuff which is now a look yeah right like we're gonNA take multiple frames and composite them into one sort of evenly frame. What is the photo? What is the photo? That's just a look that people expect. Yeah so now you gotTa do both. And you're not in like no one has solved the the big megapixel sensor problem well and you're already behind that's just a lot of problems SAMSA. Cool thing is they can not that they can't solve it. Were they to solve it then. They've done. They've they've solved it like they could just put up. Yeah it's true. It's staying in the Front Yard. Just had an engine some wheels. Here be faster than you're worrying car. They released a software. Update that solves autofocus. Problem solves this sort of the randoms ation of style problem. Didn't this might be a really good camera. Yeah Yeah I think it sort of the baseline. Is it. Bright outside party taking photos spread outside of the Motorola Razor. So let's not make that. Yeah I like the idea that you're A. You're on team optimism. If they ship a software update that is unlike any camera software. Update in history. Right this'll be the best camera ever made right. Yeah I'm sure I'm with you my love to give another thing about. The setzer is is in fact physically larger than most phone cameras. Sensors have been to date. It is like physically larger just cramming officials in the intuition of all existing cameras is that that's basically the larger the sensor like the better off you are the largest censor constant megapixel count. You want one of those big is big pixels the deep wells because they're just trying to get more light these them together they not but but if you think about it yes you want more light per pixel yes but the so mation of all the light that you get is almost directly a function of the area of the size of the sense. Well so there's there's walls between pixels. Oh God did this last. Can we not talk about not sitting at this time? It's great it's a cool tech. I hope it works dramatic fiasco with global disinformation campaign aimed only at dealer. So I WANNA talk about one thing that you did like cameras okay. You love the Selfie Camera. Oh the cell. Phone cameras amazing. It does. It's forty mega pixels defaults to ten. So it's quite committing it's because it has beauty filters But if you turn them off it just takes You can see all your wrinkles and you know imperfections understand if you want Samsung has improved over. Its own portrait mode stuff. I think I would. I don't quite dramatically but noticeably But it still has that like sort of like Blackie texture. You know what I mean. But it's way better than it was before It's definitely especially in the SELFIE CAMERA. Better than what the Pixel can do The classic test is you'd like you turn your head to your glasses are sticking out a little bit and like can the portrait mode realized that that's part of your face and shouldn't be blurred a pixel still lifts that a lot of time and this thing got it. I really really liked to selfie camera way more than I expected to. That's Great Yeah. I mean I'm all in gigantic megapixel cameras. If apple wants to like really knocking out part they'd be like the front cameras. The same as the back camera never know upgrade their iphones They won't do that because they have to manage their vessels. I should say some people do not like the fingerprint sensor as much as I do. I think it's good enough. I'm happy with it and I I love just having the whole screen like not having a notch. It's just a big basil at the top is just. It does just feel differently every day when you look at it to like. Just have that huge screen with no interruption on it except for a tiny hole for the camera. Yeah the one. Twenty Arts is very nice. The one twenty Hertz is incredibly Nice Okay. So what happens next? We wait for the software update and We'll see what happens with it. And we review the s twenty s twenty plus which have high megapixel cameras But not not one hundred and eight. And they don't have the periscope lens but we'll see if anything different there Especially with auto focus. I think that's GonNa be the big one to to check and then Yemen. That's you know they. They sell these things and they're selling the S. tens for deep discount and. I think that the ten is still very good. Phone the S. ten does autofocus or the headphone Jack. Ooh also like fourteen hundred dollars. It's a lot. It's a lot of money for a phone. Yeah well yeah I mean it's got twelve or sixteen hundred for the the five twelve sixteen gigs of Ram but like you can pin APPs Ram right which is like then they just. Your browser just won't close in the back. Which is pretty cool During Fireball Darker Baroda Post. That was like let's be real about. How much phones costs he's like. It's okay to spend that much money and phone if you know how to get the use out of it. That's why like this is a tragedy quite like if they can fix the camera like that could be a potential use out of it there. There are other people who will be like yes. I will get fourteen hundred dollars of use out of this huge screen. The storage expandable storage. The on ramp that this has you know whatever they all the stuff that you can use the phone. Dax stabilized. Video if thought focused stabilize video Seattle Focus Works. It is it is. It's it's not a huge massive improvement over the time but it's a slight improvement. It stabilizes over like another access basically like the does a role now or pitcher. Something is better But it's not it's not. I don't think it's quite up to what The iphone can do especially with the offense really good at Adjusting color and light balances. You move out of shadow and I don't think that Samsung's quite there yet. You can shoot eight K. Though I mean I guess you just listed a bunch of things that could be considered a reason but like for me. I need a real specific reason in my head of why this phone. I'm going to spend more than spent on my last phone now. Understand like L. Every year I spent a thousand dollars on the phone. It's a lot of spin but I use my phone a lot. You know but like this year I'm going to spend fourteen hundred dollars. Phone like what changed. What so what? What new capability that does. This provide me five hundred Zim. Just try it and a beautiful beautiful screen and tons of Ram. Tons of beautiful storage is like not. Yeah you can get that right. You get that from one plus pretty cheaply yeah. It's a five G. radio to use one street corner praying position You sit on T. mobile and eventually it'll get certified for. At and T. G. And that that's better so it's that and if you would like such a thing And it's it's very pretty. It is very pretty. I think this is the year the two hundred and fifty dollar phone for it's coming events all right. We're until you break as emotional. Everyone needs a break and then Julia Alexander two weeks in a row Disney news. I strongly suspect it will be even more emotional for the next segment. We'll be right back. This averse has brought to you by nerdwallet. The folks have earned the title of Nerd many times over any questions about credit cards mortgages or investing nerdwallet team of financial. Experts are here to help. You could waste so much time researching which rewards credit card offers the most bang for your buck. The nerds have done the work soon. Have to when it comes to finances. Everyone is when those questions come up. Nerdwallet is the place to go for expert. Advice budgeting how to start investing in so much. More nerdwallet has useful tools to wrap your head around whatever money question digging into like calculators and side by side comparisons that will save you time and help you make smarter decisions with money for Straightforward. No nonsense money advice. Head over to nerdwallet. Dot Com. For All your money questions once again turned the nerds at Nerdwallet DOT com. Hello this is Jesse David Fox. I'm senior editor at vulture and I host the podcast. Good one eight podcast about jokes. It's a podcast about well jokes. Every week I sit down with comedian comedy writer or director to one of their jokes and figure out how it all came together. I don't sit down with a pin. The head physically. Write down everything I just has not. My style turns out comedians jokes pretty seriously. I like all jokes okay. That's what I do. That's what I live with is really nothing else I care about. It's all very revealing. What did you sort of learn from this? What was your takeaway? Nothing guy. I'm not. I'm not sure Mar Khorshid good one from vulture and the box media podcast network. Subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. Or on your favorite podcast APP. Do not use the puck apparant. Oh what a great question Jesse David Fox Julia Guess. Big News in the world. And Bob's Kevin just this week the media industry big news in my world. Yeah so I again. I was on planes this week so I spent some time on a plane. Washing data emotionally processed the galaxy twenty. And then on my flight back. I spent all that time in a plane watching you emotionally process Disney CEO Bob. Idir yeah stepping up. He's not stepping down. Step away. He just he just stepped to a more exalted role. Pulled baller moving the world. Explain what happened so Bob Eiger former? Ceo Snakes it's effective immediately announced that he was taking on a new role. He's the executive chairman of Disney. It's a role he made up. Yeah this is all just like I would like to do it Essentially in his mind he saw it as the perfect time. Post Disney applause. Post everything to go and just work with the creative teams and and focused entirely on the creative side of content at Disney Disney is a content company that makes a lot of sense and announced that. Bob Bob Chapman. I spoke to four Disney people yesterday and attaches last name and got different answers each time. I've ruin I talked to him. Bob Seat is important. Here is his name is also Bob. There's a lot of Bob's and Allen's and Kevin's at Disney. So many of them. There are three Allen's on that org chart and really the face of Marvel is a is a Bob. 'cause it's Robert so a lot of boats in there. Yeah Okay so there's provider and there's bobby see probably see the new guy. He's the CEO. Disney where did he come from? Yeah so he's been with the company for close to thirty years. He's kind of a company man. He was been in every department. He was part of home. Entertainment he was one of the leading executives on getting the distribution deal between Disney and I tunes 'cause he was like Hey I think digital's taken off an apple seems to have a grasp on it So he set that up then he got moved over to consumer products where he went to basically Clean House for. It was kind of like Paying your dues to get into the mall. And he got in He came he cleaned house. He went in and they were very anti-tiger. Because this was post you know a couple of years but post The Eisner Iger Michael Eisner who was the former CEO. Disney Bob Eiger taking over that happening as you guys. Basically he goes and he's like I'm cleaning. House then eventually moved to parks. He's instrumental in setting up the Shanghai resort. Which is a huge resort for Disney And then he became. Ceo that was the guy. He's a guy I would argue. He is not. I would argue people. Disney don't think he's the guy really so this is all very so this is what happened. This is what happened in by the way when I was Julia what happened. She didn't say Disney blogger stepped up. Now there's all this dramatic stuff this history of the new guy. Yeah but there's a thing that didn't happen here. Which is the Kevin Kevin Kevin's Kevin Meyer? Who Runs Disney plus yet? Whoever thought was going to be the CEO right is not the CEO Right. The other thing that happened is that everyone was surprised. Yeah because there is a lot of things that are happening. I had extended his contract. I think he was not even He's got a third. I think our into his contract extended He just finished his book tour. He was supposed to appear at conferences as the CEO of Disney and like a few months Clearly that he might attempt he's not going to be. Ceo So it was just really jarring came out of nowhere. It was a random Tuesday. Everyone I spoke to was just like something is happening. The conspiracy theories that hit my mom's. We're just amazing. Everything from he is going to be. Bloomberg's EP running handed a to Z sick To everything between So there was a lot of confusion over what was happening because it was so sudden and if we remember the last time there was a Disney executive change which I do regular. It was a long long public very bad process. There were it was just bad and Michael. Eisner was ousted and it was a year but they announced that there was a year changed and they were figuring it out and it all kind of move over eventually. This was like I am no longer. Ceo Immediately And that leads to a lot of confusion and scaring the markets. So that you didn't you didn't like my tweet and so I feel like I've justified in making this program you on here to read are bad tweets. So when when when Bob said he was stepping down to. Do you need to go get a drink later because it was so stressful? I did actually. Did you say that? That eiger augured loggers dater. No it looks like a brother to me I want you get the hell go to look at you. Say That because there's a lot of shame there's uses so good but there's this other underlying drama which is happen very suddenly yeah. It's Bob See who didn't who always seemed like he was in the running yet but maybe it wasn't the favorite the guy who runs streaming Kevin. Meyer was supposedly the favourite writing at the GIG. What happened there? So for my understanding. The thing about Bob see is that he is a company man and to an extent. He's an Agar companyman. He's someone who really kind of like idolizes Bob Iger and so he someone that I can mold into what they need to carry out the next ten years of Disney that someone who can then basically deploy what Eiger has set up and just keep that running the really great thing about Eggers said in a call to investors afternoons. Went out that. He's basically made Disney Holloway's autonomous machines. Because the heads that he has set up just are good at what they do. Kevin Feige runs marvel beautifully Kathleen Kennedy and John. Basically run LUCASFILM pretty. Well yes. That's a medium. Let's go down there Sean. Bailey does his job really well and then you've got Kevin Mayor whose exceedingly good at what he does Extremely good and he runs through new. Yeah he runs so his department is direct to consumer and international so. He runs a hot that he would also thou look over Hot Star in India. Like he looks over everything. My assumption based on what people told me is that Bob see gets job because the board really likes biopsy. They like the idea that he can be the Space Disney they like that he can basically companyman Kevin Mayor who's extremely good at strategizing. Who has the probably the best strategist Disney's ever had next eiger? Who came up that way to continue doing what they need him to do. In that's in that's really shaping streaming streaming era like. They need him to focus on that. There are other issues that have come up with mayor that are like people publicly reported. He's very aggressive. He's a bulldog he's kind of like that's his whole stance And that doesn't necessarily gye well with Disney on the public front. When you think of Bob Eiger you think Uncle Bob's what a lot of industry calm right. Because he's just charismatic lovable That works for the Disney brand and Meyer mayor. Sorry is just very good at what he does but is he the face of Disney. That's the question. The board has to look over and clearly. They don't with Bob seat in a surprise for PM Tuesday night announcement. Yeah I mean the great thing is that this is just in tune with what Disney has done. I mean twenty. Five years ago you had arguably the biggest public Disney scandal which was with after their COO. Frank Wells died Jeffrey Katzenberg. I'm WHO's now the head of Qube is now like I'm going to be your second in command. Michael Eisner promised in this apparently on a walk in like Salt Lake City Mike Wiesner goes actually going to do that. And then a few months later Katzenberg is fired and start streaks right and it's a public brawl who either fighting over this. That's how you get Prince of Egypt. Yeah that's how you get a bug's life in and literally the same day same thing happens two thousand and four thousand five right. It's like it's it's this is like the Disney story in a Lotta ways. So you think Kevin says this is the conversation. I had a former exact wanted. Kevin's Kevin Mind. A former executive told me he had a great quote and it was like you know you think of a a bake off in the second place winner doesn't necessarily stay around to see if they can win again. They go and do something else at the same time. You know. Kevin's got a really good position at Disney and he'll still get to work with Agar for the next. You know up until the end of two thousand twenty one so ir yeah. He's On for twenty two months until he added twenty to twenty two months until the end of twenty twenty one. That's his contract. He's executive chairman the CEO reports to him. Yeah it's great. It really feels like they just move some titles around. Yeah Jenny a he a great quote on CNBC. He just went. I DIDN'T WANNA run the company anymore. It was like a mood this yes I'm tired. I don't WanNa do anymore. You've extended my contract so many times already. I mean obviously for it to happen it on a Tuesday afternoon. Something happened right. This is the story was trying to chase. Something has happened for Bob I go. I don't WanNa do this anymore. Like I'm GonNa just take a step back to an extent and focus on creative At the same time keeps what he likes. I think he generally likes me. Think about content and work with Kevin Feige over marble and Kevin Maryland streaming and be able to strategize with them and figure out the next five ten. I think it said Bob Eiger finally. He's a busy guy and so he finally found the time to go watch Star Wars ride skywalker and NOPE. Wow and he's like what would eat into it but they can't Redo your stepping down Disney. Ceo Yeah so he can reboot. That's like Emmy Great. That's the ultimate like he's gotten the board like the masters of the Universe Disney Board Room. He's like I'm GonNa just direct riser skywalker. Actually we're GONNA pull it. We're going to do it next year. I'm just impressed that J.J. Abrams wasn't named the company. The reason I want to talk you about the mechanics of the change. Yeah there's the drama of the characters but Disney is the big player streaming wars. They like you're saying like our strategies set we've executed all the pieces and now it's just about creative also. I would prefer never think about our parks ever again. That's where he's a he's like. I want to run the boring parts. I just want to do the fun stuff. Which again is a mood? I am totally totally by that extremely sympathetic to that idea. But like where does it leave Disney in this moment where there's so much activity in the streaming war right? It's really funny because this happened at a time and I kept saying our strategies deployed. We're on the Disney plus front and while this is happening like yes. They have twenty eight million subscribers. Which is not. They'll do the the in there next quarter they're not going to get twenty million again Although they are launching internationally so who knows maybe they are I was just talking to someone who says they're working overtime on making sure that UK launch goes really well so they've got that but back home when we look at the content on Disney which is what matters. That's all it matters. At the end the day to consumers they don't actually have the strategy in place because to the original series that they came up with for Disney got moved to Hulu The third series. That's just who knows what's going on with is Lizzie. Mcguire big Disney Franchise And now that's suddenly is. No one knows what's going on with the showrunner just said it was considered too adult for Disney. Plus how lizzy McGuire is too adult for Disney dog. I would love to know So if you take out if you actually take out marvel and star wars to an extent Pixar Disney plus does not have much. They have a proud family remake. They have a mighty ducks series and they have a Turner series. I mean I. I love me some tournament but that's but that's it. Everything else is like Marvel and star wars which makes sense but from what I've heard is like the content side of Disney pluses undergoing because they don't have an identity. So what from what I hear from people have said is like I'm GonNa give slots to Kevin Flagging Kathleen Kennedy. You get three or you get to do what you want with it. I don't care that's what people are slots for. Yes so it's like every month or every three months you have something here and we need. We'll bring people in that way but in terms of strategy they actually don't have a great. Shijie place because they set out to do all these Disney plus shows then decided. They weren't made for Disney. Plus they were Hulu shows which is an advantage only Disney has 'cause they have multiple streaming services and now they're moving on streaming services right. At and T. has multi yes slightly different name. Tv now which does not compete with direct TV. That's exactly where is your strategy in place if you don't know what the identity of your core flagship streaming services. I don't think it is. I would argue. It's not I have argued last night for many hours with people at me so they have to figure that out and I do think eiger being able to just focus on that and not have to do. Investors calls every three months where he's like clearly board which dates like. I think that works out really well for him. The question is if Mayer leaves in the middle of them launching internationally in the middle them going up against peacock from NBC Universal Hbo Max Etcetera Etcetera. What happens to that streaming unit which is still undergoing changes? It's still undergoing identity stuff who knows I mean? He thinks it's in place because they have twenty million subscribers they're scaling they have partnerships they have content from star wars and marvel. That's really what's talk with that. Let me push on that a little bit. Do they right like the all? The good marvel people are dead. She mean Tony Stark. I was actually going to get mad. And then you said Tony I was like I don't know to feel now. The good ones like whatever Sort of marble so they got more of Alaska Marvel ask and Star. Wars is over right and then twenty years from now. We're going to read with the vendors that I'm assuming just drive you insane. Probably guessed the Yes. When they removed the avengers franchise has taught us. Anything we can tolerate a reboot every five years right. But like they're they're in a moment where they're they're doing like insularity. WanNa Vision right hardcore in the avengers verse to care about that. Yeah I would argue. That's true okay. Black Panthers great but like that's not GonNa do eleven films overtime right. How many vendors movie? So that's like forty five four right now. Four five actually panther isn't gonNA spun the show the way that sort of event respond the NCAA Star Wars. The coordinative is over. There's no new coordinative by just bits and pieces inside of militant Orien- doesn't that seem like the biggest problem for them. I mean this is why they're relying and paying a lot of money to people like by 'cause they're like you can figured out who they know that they know they're at a point where they've told investors this right where they've said it's twenty twenty is gonna be fine but it's not GonNa be twenty nineteen nine hundred right. We figured it out. They get us a lot where it's like. When does the marvel tiredness exhaustion? Kick in when you guys figure this out. They kind of keep proving that they have that they can bring people in just based on the marvel name in the Star Wars Name. People tune seaman delorean. There was nothing really. They're attached to the main star wars thing and then would it became a thing Except for the main thing and and and they're launching with relaunching their Marvel TV universe on Disney plus launching getting winter soldier which are too big captain America Characters. That people know from series. And I think they'll just kind of continue to lead with that where it's like. Yeah more Wanda Vision has two characters that union from vendors and it will tease us out in a Bendel. They've got Loki. They've got Hawkeye like they've got the big guys coming back. Are they going to get yet? Robert Downey Junior Chris Evans back. No they want to pay for it But at the same time they've proven after the after the vendors people were like what are they gonNa do now? They turned into a success. They turned guardians of the Galaxy and to success turned into a big success of the theme parks. they've they can figure it out really well. They used to be inventive with it. Which is where I pitched. Maija which is fast and furious but pod racing Have you considered changing name to Bob? Kevin that's a great pick. Make it though Kevin Ceiling. That is very clear by takeaways. At Disney's future success depends on on on Hawkeye. You just referred to. Hawkeye's one of the big guys. Huckabee was part of the reason why they succeeded in then game. Here's the from where I generally feel like people very bought so far in two. I think one of our news editors like hyme who just bought so far into the idea of marvel and star. Wars isn't even have to be anything to do with Skywalker doesn't ironman. They're just into the the idea of what it is. I think Kevin Feige has proven that they can bring people in just based on the idea that it is marble is going to keep people going through Disney. Plus I mean no it's why they have the simpsons rate. It's like there's a reason that you bring a show like the simpsons ending you go. You're done with this. You can watch the show but added in Lucasville Marble Pixar families. I'm kids I let me contrast this with other shooting. Work Editors Netflix. Netflix has a massive library. They bought a lot of stuff that make a lot of stuff. If you pay for an ethics it is almost certain that there is something that the algorithm will find for you or something you have never seen or something new right like there's so much new stuff happening affects all the time. Plus they're huge library. Even though stuff is going away. But it's just like vast library steph where you're like just play me something it will almost certainly you'll be new to you at least. Disney doesn't have that right. It's a very finite library and they're not flooding it with new stuff right at the same rate the Netflix does now and they've spoken about that. I mean that was the big question for two years when they announced it and they were leading up to answer those questions and he's not going to have the output of Netflix. We're not gonNA have that for many years if ever like that's just not going to be a rat At the same time they fox there is a lot of fun. I mean they put you on there they put the simpsons. There's a lot of stuff they could bring over but that stuff is going to. Hulu we'll silly X. men X. men is going to Disney right in that that's arguably more of a WHO I mean. This is the debate but like tell me why excellent is Hulu movies or movies cartoons and movies. The movies are going to Disney plus. They're already Disney. Plus what Tyler. Are they going to go under command? It would go into marvel. I guess that makes. I don't think of the Fox X. Men Movie says Margaret Issues. I yell about his deputy who and Disney pluses make any sense whatsoever. There's no overlap. Between what is it Disney plus thing unlike except that it's under pg thirteen and what is Hulu thing but even then they take. They're taking all their Disney plus made for Disney plus moving it to Hulu and then bringing stuff over the Disney plus. That doesn't make any sense. The original question. It's like they can bring stuff over from Fox. If they want to they they had they now own a lot of stuff that they can bring. If there's like Oh people are leaving. There's not enough to watch. Let's bring a little bit more. Titles we can figure out what works under. Pg Thirteen Logan is never gonNA hit. Disney plus would be incredible if there was an accidental way that ended up that would be phenomenal. It's never gonNA interesting. Plus that's a Hulu thing. Same with Deadpool it's just not gonna be on just but they do not bob scenes. Got Some wild ideas they do. They mean this is where. Hbo Max and Peacock COMMEND RIGHTS SO NBC. Three Warner media and NBC Universal. That's their big pitch is like not only are we building literally building new studios new networks designed just for streaming we also have all of HBO but then we have all these other networks we own and all these other shows we own house. Brands like a husband worked out real. Well Con- you look at Netflix Netflix. Losing all those right. That's the thing. Netflix is losing almost everything which is why they're pushing so much of their originals and why they're pushing so much like they're spending a reportedly like seventeen billion dollars on content this year. That's more than any other studio because they know they have to do that. Disney is going to get by on having a series like the mandatory and Y South Winter soldier every three months that people keep subscribe to and that will hopefully keep them there and Kevin Maher very smartly set in November with also. I wear bundling who really cheaply with. Because we know you'll probably get bored D- have you tried Hulu. Yeah like a smart move on their part. So when you hear Bob. Iger say I'm gonNA focus on creative. Yeah and then. There's a sort of problem of the big franchises have reached narrative conclusion. New Stuff. We don't know where what APP all content is going to live in. Does that seem like he's just going to start meddling with his studio heads? I he makes the right call. I heard a story that so Kevin Mayor was the guy alongside Eiger. Who's responsible used to bleed acquisitions? So he was responsible for all the major acquisitions alongside. Eiger from what I heard from a source. Kevin was the guy who pitched twitter to Disney. He was like no one thing they should by by twitter and Bob was the one who was like. Nah I don't know about that. I think we should like wait. Yeah they did observe decision. Yeah they're are also playing in a by vice right also. Seems like a good non call right so there's a lot of these things that happened that Bob I think has a lot of Twi people credit him as being visionary for what he does. I think that's where he'll come in. He won't go to Kevin. Feigen be like we consider doing This movie based on this random character. But he'll say I think we can roll it out this way. I think if we make this a Disney plus thing and we make that a theatrical thing and then we put this on Free form which is like their family channel. We can really work out a way that makes sense for all of our consumers and keeps it going and keeps the interest high. That's what he's always been really good at. And now he's just gonNA focus on that so he's going to focus on over. I I think intertwining all of the different parts of Disney's content. That makes sense. You know the big question now is whoever replaces Bob C. is heads of parks. I don't think they've announced anyone yet. they'll have to work with them on that figure out how to intertwine the parks into that way as well but I mostly focused on the next few years of content and that is going to be intertwining Disney plus the Atra Coal and network from a tile and the Disney plus. I know for free for all right. The streaming wars continue to be first of all dominated by Bob and Kevin's the Bob and Kevin Shuffling every day. You wrote a piece. You wrote a little profile. Bob See everyone should go read that. What'S THE NEXT BIG TURN? Do you think the next big thing is what happens with Kevin and so that is what happens with his division which is streaming international. Every talk to who works in those divisions I keep asking if they've heard from Kevin and not answer that they would but they're like nope no emails saying like hey discerning hasn't said anything yet nothing like Hey. Here's our new. Ceo You know like you work at a company happens. Your manager sent a thing going. Hey the started new things. Here's what's happening right definitely knew about this before it was happening. One hundred percent. You are always telling me. Yeah exactly So no one's heard from him so I mean people are not worried but they're kind of like what does this mean for us and I think the big questions if Kevin Stays for the next year. What does that relationship with him? And Bob See Lake because they've rarely worked together really and now they're gonNA have to suddenly work and by the way streaming which Bob Eiger calls. The future of Disney is the one area Bob C. has no like can relationship. So That's a fun movie where Bob Eiger for two and a half years has gone streaming is where the future of Disney as. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA take some theatrical stuff and make it a Disney plus show doing it this way. Disney plus movie and all of a sudden their new. Ceo has doesn't absolutely no idea what's going on with streaming extent like he's just not been involved with that So that's like a fun thing they're going to have to overcome. That's the big thing that Wall Street's going like how are you managing that? The road I keep using is that Bob Iger will be a buffer. He will be the guy that like talks through the Kevin's and he's like no no come. I'll figure it out. Don't worry like basically dad role right. He's going to be like. Don't worry I called. I'll deal with it. We'll figure it out and I think that's what he's going to do for the next twenty two months or whatever if Kevin leaves it's a whole new game it's like well. They have to figure that out. Pretty quickly because Kevin has been instrumental in everything happens with streaming all right. Keep Ryan Kevin Meyer. Yeah it's been my thing big Kevin Movement coming out Juliette. Thank you so much. We're just GONNA the streaming wars view from the field. This is going to become a recurring thing here. All right we'll take a break we're back brought to you by name. Dot Com dragon drop website. Templates are great. They're simple enough that anyone with a dream in ten minutes can build their own site for better or worse. But if you're someone who needs to get more hands on with domains and websites checkout name DOT COM name. Dot Com has built by experts for experts with features like DNA templates bulk management actions extra security features and a brand new API name dot com is the best way to build your best site name dot com offers dot com domains for just eight ninety nine and for eight twenty five. You can transfer in your existing dot com domains new users get free privacy protection and security features just for signing up right now. Listeners can use the Promo Code Verge at checkout to get fifty percent off G. Suite accounts for a full year that includes everything offered in Google's business g mail productivity and collaboration suite custom business email address and apps like Docs drive calendar and hangouts tools. You can use everyday to keep your team moving. That's name Dot Com and use offer code. Vr A checkup. Hi I'M ARIEL DIM. Ross and I host reset the VOX DOT COM technology. Podcast I want to tell you about an episode. We did recently on crisper. It's a powerful gene editing tool that allows us to modify stretches of DNA in just about any living organism. But we're still figuring out how to use it on humans safely and ethically not too long ago. A scientist in China was sentenced to prison after using crisper to edit the DNA of twin girls. Jennifer Dow DNA helped develop crisper back in two thousand twelve and she is in many ways the public face of this technology. So how does she feel about how it's being used now? I've talked to her about the future of crisper and the ethical questions. It raises. Check out our conversation on reset. You can find it on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen later nerds Paul Miller Y-yo every week hold a fractured nation together with a segment. That is consistently called a plurality of puffs. I know this is this is wording from Jules Patent application for an some sort of smoking vaping cessation thing. I don't really know what's going on here. But it kind of sounds like let me let me. Just read straight from the from the pattern because it's just really good. The method includes determining a delivery pattern for providing a first puff containing an amount of a first vaporize -able material and a second puff containing on amount of a second vaporize -able material so I think the ideas that they're kind of they're doing a Switcheroo on you to stop smoking Stop baby the first vaporized material. The first substance in the second vaporize material does not include the first substance I think that substance Nicotiana. The method further includes providing a plurality of puffs from vaporizer the plurality of puffs based on the delivery pattern and including the first puff and the second puff the method further includes receiving user feedback associated with the delivery pattern in response to providing just like screw with puffed. Have ANY NICOTINE IN IT? Yeah I think the thing is like if somehow they can detect that. You still really want this. Puff this is not a cessation plot. This is get you hooked on more jewel plot because literally. The cliche is The pigeon in the room with the Button that gives it food and it hits the Button. The food comes that if it's consistent it hits about needs to its full Stops but the food comes randomly. It like hits the button till needs until explodes because that's feedback on your brain if you're a pigeon or a human with a gambling problem for example So if there's a I that is like real like giving you like trying to step down your team but the actual experience of it is. I don't know if you're GONNA get nicotine in your poff or not. What are you GONNA do? You're going to be the pigeon. You're just GonNa puff away does so. It's yeah it's a patent okay Jaw they've been promising. A smart vape It helps you kick nicotine for a long time One of the problems they have. Is that apple just kicked all vaping. Apps off the APP store. Default and apple doesn't allow Safari of Access to Bluetooth devices. Obviously so you see we're gonNA live in a world where android users quick. I'm saying in a world where the local processing power of the jewel has to skyrocket off your morality of like is Jewel GonNa make an arm processor is like the next turn of the screw. Just we live in a world where there already exists like android phones. That have vaporizer all right. Well we'll just see how that goes. Twenty twenty five is an patents argument but then you would never know. That's right. Keep this sort of literature. We've Gone Long. There's a grab bag of stuff. Lightning around 'em. Wc was cancelled due the corona virus. The current events by the way is literally sweeping the world We're going to have an interview episode With our health reporter Nicole Weizman And Elizabeth Potter deputy-editor. Who's kind of studying business impacts of the current virus? We're in this together and do a whole interview episode about that don't want to minimize it but NWC is happening. Virtually because it's not happening in Barcelona A bunch of the announcements. I'm just GONNA yell phone names at. Ud L. J. V. Sixty five G. seems fine on paper. We'll see if they can get the camera. Also it has the little screen case thing which man. Lg Just can't get anyone to pay attention to the screen. You mean a second like like like I do the duo but it's just an extra screen for your phone. Yeah Yeah exactly. Like the duo. Only they're not Microsoft and so everyone will forget that it's so it's a case for the phone that contains another full size screen. All right. We're the only other funds. Must this says. Sony did a phone with the headphone Jack. That's because I made the Expedia one to which expire one is the tallboy. They also have like an experiment. Many which is a smaller Tallboy So they they updated it. There's another version coming. They're trying again to Get it right with the camera Because Sony makes the sensors cameras on their own funds are always bad. We'll see what the time the special stuff going on there but they added back a headphone Jack. There wasn't one of the last one. They know they know how to give me back. While we announces may excess foldable with more durable display in the main access is one of the screen folds on the outside. Yes given everything. We know seems. Yeah well they've they. There's no like I don't know four eight layers of different kinds of plastic on the outside and make it work. That's right the display in the industry. It's like imagine if you put a screen protector on your phone and then you forgot and then you put another one and then it bent. There's a red meat phone. Yeah the the red meat phone is It's a sixty five and therefore it'll be g And this is like a bunch of phones that were like. Oh my God. They're they're coming out. They've got like the same baseline specs at the twenty has We'll see it'll be fine. Galaxy Buds Plus Christopher reviewed them. They're good yeah good battery life. The phone quality actually is good. The only thing they're missing is active noise. Cancellation which are there. There's not a losing a lot of announced wireless buds with action wants cancellation. But they need it. Yeah well there's there's there's already I mean there's the ECO buds from Amazon. And then there's a Sony's which are well regarded becoming a gigantic case. Yeah the funny thing. The one thing that is bud don't do they They will let you pair with multiple devices. But they won't switch seamlessly between them unless you have a bunch of Samsung phones. In which case it's totally a can of course proprietary Bluetooth think about active noise cancellation ear buds. I am living with my sister in New York. She got the airports pro because her regular air pods died. And I have no idea how to get hurt like it's A. It's a dice roll whether I need to yell at her to get her attention or you know wave her. Do something respectful to to to make her aware that I'm talking to her. Because these are apparently effective. Yeah that noise cancellation. It's good. They're really subtle so you don't know necessarily that she anyways yes. Dinner was sitting next to me in the office all the yesterday. I kept on just yelling at him. Respect I feel like this is is this could lead to a breakdown of the best part was. I wasn't listening to music. They weren't even on. I heard him the entire. All right Do you want to run US through this? Xbox series stuff I I am so stoked about so Microsoft. Kind of cons- confirmed some details about The series which is really great in this this case where the players five like basically until specifically proven otherwise. You can assume that every feature hardware wise that you get on the xbox you're going to get on the playstation like it so I'm sure they will find ways to differentiate. I think Microsoft wants to be the fastest sales like Sony. Might WanNa be the cheaper one who knows but like right now. They're both getting the same general batch of very good. Amd stuff so xbox Microsoft xbox series x love twelve teraflops GPU which to put that in context is about where the high end is right now of desktop. Gp's wow it's like it's faster than anything that amd has right now. So they're really they're really pushing it And then everything every other little detail that comes out is just like it. Sounds like exactly like like my like wishlist for what I would want a constant like the HD two point one which is include variable refresh high frame rate stuff Microsoft is focusing on low latency throughout the whole chain from the from the controller. All the way to the screen Hd Two point one has this thing where you can request the game mode from TV. So the lowly NC. You don't have to dive into the settings to try to find the low latency settings And then another detail that they just shared. 'cause you know. Sony myself have been talking about these really quick load times or zero load screens. Because they're going to have fast envy me Sst's this next. Part IS AMAZING MAJOR. Nelson on his podcast is talking about his experience with this is like the low times are really great and I could like switch between games and they just start up right away it's also but then I had to reboot the consul and after it booted the safe states are still there and so I can just resume the game right away. Like even after a reboot which it just like I feel like we. We really downgraded how much we're waiting on our consuls between the three sixty and xbox one air because the drive didn't get any faster. Internet connections. Didn't get much faster and the files got way bigger. But I don't feel like they're addressing it now. Yeah I'm very excited like the the the incident resume of glass game. You're playstation or switch. You know like I love that makes it more likely that I'm going to play the game because I know I don't have to wait for it to start and to have that work for multiple games huge And to have that work across reboots is just. It's just like breaking right and then something that Microsoft is also really into is that they're calling smart delivery so and and one of the first publishers like promised to do this like obviously Microsoft will do this with their own games. You buy the game and now you own it across any compatible consul so so you and Cyberpunk Twenty. Seven seven is is announced. It's GonNa work by cyberpunk twenty seventy seven for the xbox one you now own a copy that will work on your next xbox or if you buy when you buy on the next xbox but you bring your game over to a friend's to play it will work on and they have the only xbox one they don't have the new series x l work on their council so like there's some kind of a poor portability. The scary part about that is that the real game is no longer you know it was already ceasing to be the physical object that it's definitely not the physical object. What happens if you take a photo of the game with a Pixel at night and it combines multiple phase together and a composite? What is it sounds like? Gd Sees Microsoft just pulled out because epic epic pulled out. We don't know if she's going to keep going but that's another one of these. It seemed like it was going to be a moment. And now we're going to bleed out some more information over time. Gpc's game developer conference. I don't I don't know all the like how much they were gonNA announced. I'm sure they were going to have a bunch of meetings with Developers and show them a bunch of stuff. I think that If I've worked a game company and I want to figure out how to handle The cancellation of a conference and to try and get some attention for my phone's that otherwise would have definitely got intention for the conference. I would not do what everyone is done in the wake of Nwc Think I made fun of people not paying attention? Lg a minute ago. If they had been able to launch that thing that you see they definitely would have gotten more attention than they're getting now. Yeah because I would add an event. Yeah it's different for a big company like Microsoft. But these these cancellations of these conferences really hurts the mid tier bottom tier companies. That like that's their chance to get some attention At a much easier way than they. Otherwise we'll know yeah okay. Last bit apple released white papers the MAC pro and pro display x. the are you should read them. They're very funny. Apples very proud of itself looking at me and he seeing me smiling at him. Because all I I just need to like start saying words to troll him to three hour rant. But I'm not going to do now. The our review of the MAC pro and the pro display is coming next week. It's a very close. It was just too busy week. There is a dramatic fiasco twenty. We didn't WANNA stack them all up. It's coming on Monday but I just two things. I WANNA point out for these white papers. one You you're not supposed to shine a light at the back of the payer display acciari because it has sensors in the back in the front. Yeah so if you like point a light at the back of it screws up the display. I think that notice in the white paper just for our friends who are youtubers behind anymore and then for the Mac pro in just a little. Tease apple is like hey core counts go up. In these processors. Clock speeds go down So make sure your applications are multi threaded appropriately because they might actually get slower depending on if you buy the more expensive processor with more closed more cores. Solar clock speed should have gone thread ripper. Just put it out there. Kompromat saying a word about it. It's just a little piece of information I want you to have and you'll see it next week. Our view the wheels don't have locks on the table scandal. That's Marquez rallied. That video that's funny. Okay that's it. That's the first cast of a thing to plug. It's a newsletter called processor. You can find it. The verge dot com slash newsletters read it mostly daily. It's about computers. If you've enjoyed this show have you thought about it with an editor in an e mail very much right there you can tweet us? I'm reckless policies. Your Paul de at back lawn but said Paul Promo Code.

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Reviewing the Pixel 4, the calm before the streaming war, and a Foxconn Wisconsin update

The Vergecast

1:35:00 hr | 1 year ago

Reviewing the Pixel 4, the calm before the streaming war, and a Foxconn Wisconsin update

"Gone on all the talent moving on the video gaming services that's the virtuous coming up now there's no room for idle chat in business so if emails you're only moneymaker make there's going to I guess a little bit of a Fox Hunt Update Google Pixel four of us to get into detail we talk about the new Microsoft surface hardware deep in the streaming whereas Julia Alexander and what is hey you win hello and welcome verse cast the flagship podcast of Racine Wisconsin. Oh my God I'm your friend Eli is here hi how's it going new channel go to intercom dot com slash podcast that's intercom dot com slash podcast we can look for reset basically everywhere you can get it by subscribing on Apple podcasts stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts didn't leave us alone leave us alone you didn't leave a slow news loan L. Miller's here hello Jillian Alexander's here hey sure you're gonNA talk to this yeah I want to start with that song made by our friend Jackson Hayes this K- and five G. we'll see how that was hard to he didn't leave trump called the eighth wonder of the World Says Twenty Million Square feet they're going to build huge LCD panels that were down to one million square feet I will tell you her with my friend Ariel Tomasz former verge science reporter true former vice news tonight reporter true but she's back the vox media is that we use to monitor and detect wildfires to thing I've noticed is that technology and power in particular seem to be making news faster than Arctic Tours Take Intercom Customer Unity in just twelve months they converted forty five percent more visitors through Intercom Messenger make room for new everybody I am here cast network with a new show called reset what is reset it seems very exciting reset is a tech podcast that's going to come out on yes tack leaves low you didn't leave a slow leaves loan he's straight up tech like a and how it's being used to grade essays for standardized tests for students and we're also going to be looking at things a little bit quirkier like the technology over yeah and you're going to be pretty on the show pretty often keep up with that cycle yeah it's going to be three times weekly so it's going to be on Tuesdays Thursdays and Sundays all right perfect soon leave us a low didn't leave us alone leave us alone you didn't listen to me but that's okay because we're going to tell you what you already knew for months science technology in power and how they all mixed to to sort of give us her current reality so we're all kinds of things are gonNA cover a whole bunch of things Things that are very and I met new generation mobility and self driving cars ways that story run Germany okay yet to be determined what will actually built there but while they were doing this while Fox was under all this criticism during the run-up to the last election when Scott Walker the Republican governor Johnson obviously running for reelection on back of making the Steel Fox on started buying buildings in Wisconsin and saying they were going to be innovation centers in so we if you've been following this you know that we wait medical solutions the crops that supposed to mean on some health cloud network A. K. he didn't a j means Mar Safety and security through AKA technology. I mean come on Neil I should know this five G. Means Pie neary that LCD we've talked to are like we've looked at these plans and there's a yoga center but we don't see where you'd build the foundations for the LCD Fabrication Ed Connor over Song Fox on you might know that we've been covering Fox on a lot just a lot the building factory in my hometown of Mount Pleasant Wisconsin the factory He's at Jackson H visuals on twitter. It's like a budding youtuber you should go follow him bring the shells and audio and audio double threat to explain why North we started with are you excited I'm super excited the world needs more type I guess I would say yeah reset is going to be a tech news podcast that's going to explore offices just concrete empty spaces and we publish them photos and we went along story lots of interviews of people saying they bought the buildings nothing's happening so we're Fox has empty Alex Wisconsin like two days later Fox on health event where they bought another building in Madison on young who's sort of Fox on executive said the buildings or not empty we'll be issuing a statement correction about about the buildings or empty in the meantime we encourage you to not climb trees investigate what we're doing riches wrong in two cases one morning okay well yesterday Wisconsin Public Radio in Wisconsin State Journal both on the same day filed reports saying innovation centers have been put on hold and Fox on from building seventy five inch TV panels potentially at a generation ten facility to promising a generation six LCD sent Josh Jessica are reported to Wisconsin he drove around all the innovation centers around the state he like looked in the windows. These are literally empty buildings like not the buildings are gonNA stay empty forever because they have no idea what they're doing in Wisconsin like literally none they went from thirteen thousand jobs to maybe fifteen hundred jobs they went is actually yet done any work regarding the buildings and I'm just going to say I don't think that they're ever going to issue a statement aggression about empty buildings because run into Josh ever climbed a tree just putting that out there that was he just looked in the window neela how many how many days ago is that that was one hundred and ninety five days ago as of this spots I'm not kidding coffee robots airports and also alarm system controls like old school chunky wall panel alarm Cisco System controls for company called Qantas Fab that is not actually in the plans of the factory that they have submitted there is a yoga center though and they're building another factory next to it that's going to build coffee photographs of the buildings that were empty very technically there was a saw horse and one of the buildings and there was and there was like a Dell rugged laptop in one saying work on this is they filed plans to build a data center and a network operations center the Network Operation Center in the shape of a giant yet right in the meantime and angry Foxconn employees repeatedly tells me screaming at me to leave them alone because everything will be fine glass dome they filed this on the same day they canceled those plans because this is what Fox hunt does that was hilarious and then a little bit later they refiled the plans and so we need to make some changes the data center the giant Glass Dome will also house an auditorium. I don't know what they're doing they're man you actually haven't explained the Jackson Song and trying to explain what the AK Five G. Ecosystem is which we've discussed at length on the show before another promise Fox hunt has made that good people Wisconsin that I largely suspect no statement or crushing will ever be forthcoming regarding a and eight ks how you win the race to five G. The buildings Oh highways so I ninety four is getting bigger than all the service roads around the Foxconn area are getting bigger Wisconsin Government City County state which I've never heard of but they definitely steal your personal information sell to the Chinese government which one is the Glass Dome attached to yes and they're also building a giant glass dome that this is this is all true also bought a lot of people's houses and move their houses like like eminent domain bought their houses and tore their houses down and now those people are like troll although they must be doing something lies there traffic if nothing's happening because then the Wisconsin say government is in service of this project is winding down you think you're paying us but there's no factory here like why did we do that here's my favorite move that they're doing to hit their job number making genetics LCD yeah well if they produce in program or no through help they're going to hire college students and then pay them to go to college so they foxconn employees were just in have been empty for one hundred and ninety six days I believe the buildings will stay empty forever it's just I don't know what they're doing they're man I do know that the traffic land parents house getting adequate into their their number but it's unclear what else will happen because there's there's there's no fat factory but you can learn okay felt all right thank you Jackson College when you graduate something something else you're gonna you're gonNA earn while you learn in the program got in that so that will get them that I just want to unpack people are already so mad about this phone I'm just trying to come out of this alive yeah good yeah the battery life is is atrocious and atrocious his heart the better than the small one is really bad the battery life on the bigger one she my favorite so they got hit the number to get the tax credits even the state's already pay them out and even though they're in a tax zone where those credits are actually just cash because they senate has like more thrills but it's rickety and the thing shakes what you write on it so one of those is objectively a better roller coaster because you do the loops okay we've got the better for android phones even one like five inch LCD panel at this thing it will be like a victory at this point like the they've the bar is very low the thing that they're doing now this is they don't they don't pay taxes okay so to get four billion dollars in tax subsidies you got it right you got to actually catch Dave started a program called the Fox hunt earned wish that Google had just done that but beyond that I'm not mad about the ram I'm not mad about the there's a whole a whole to do about the screen top of the best android phone list I specifically said it was the best android experience not necessarily the best android phone and I was talking to Dan about this you're my hero thank you for participating in our ongoing Fox uncovered now day one hundred ninety seven of the building buildings empty theater it's Pixel Review Week it is it's like imagine you're you you've gone to a theme park and like there's two roller coasters and one of them you enjoy more like you have more fun going Bob the android ten makes way more sense here I know what the gestures do now and I get them the the camera is one acts like one single camera instead of a bunch of different lenses format this phone for not being I don't know the second coming for not having a wide angle like Google did a bunch of stuff that wasn't great like they did a bunch of stuff that does not put this thing at the still feel like I reviewed it a thousand years ago did you did you earn while you learned pay us for the reviews do not start you will get more camera lenses you'll get pop up lenses you will get idaho other brighter screens Blah I always harp on this a periscope inside of your connote ten or a one plus seven pro or even a one plus seventy you're going to get better specs in some ways it may load web pages faster it just I mean Tom Warren wrote this article it feels more like an iphone yeah they google tried to think through the entire experience top to bottom and they did a much better I'm just going to reveal something about there'd be starting to reprocess getting outlining and you said something to me the the one that's like less crazy the tilt a whirl or whatever right did that ride that that's a favorite ride you enjoy more it's a nicer overall cohesive experience and almost like disqualifying miss for the little one like it just doesn't get as good battery life is other phones and at this point now we phone makers are actually ah I believe I referred to the Youtube video down vote minefield yes because here's why it's a minefield I like the phone again you went for it you did it please I mean I'm trying not to be a dummy or or a downloading hater but what's that is acceptable but not really acceptable by twenty nineteen standards that we learned that you can make a phone slightly thicker and have the battery last day which is something apple did it it all knocked the phone with your eyes closed right and so that means they shipped it in the state that is is broken so help me I think I know where I land on this and that Instituto world yeah sure okay you like it better but there is the the crazy loop de loop roller coaster that has a huge drop and like minute for me phone with great with the Pixel what you get is a phone that is just overall feels more cohesive and just nicer to you the screener frustrating when it's on is great the face unlock by the way that is the main thing face unlock is better than fingerprint sensor I know launch a bunch of people wish that there had been there are millions of people all over the world whose phones are getting grabbed and then pointed at their face and they're like trying to duck and dodge around it closer is to make sure that the face unlock doesn't doesn't get ticked off well mostly with you but I have seen some people be like actually chill out like really this isn't that scary like the threat model of someone pointing the thing at your face with your eyes only but let's start with facing luck of the two things about this phone that were the obvious Mrs one is a battery life which is they put in the wrong part you know what I mean like you know how to fix it they picked the wrong part they optimized face unlock is like a way bigger miss because they shipped it without I mean they are there have been all like dozens and dozens of lawsuits that have kicked all the way up to the appeals court level about whether the police can compel you to turn over it should be the default in even in that model the bigger one is like the police really like a mocking phones right and so he gets to the point percents and they think they like a fingerprint sensor better and I am not here to tell them that the wrong because I wouldn't do that you should own your own technology preferences on this phone so that's like small small in the sense that like it's it's a it's a personal interaction that you either care about you don't I think you should care about it being better life which makes me happy Google is not competitive so that's a big miss but that's like a technical miss like well it's more than technical mess I do think that you can but the Tilton better experience because it's not ricky dean or not afraid you're going to die I'm going I I'm gonNA accept this I curious about your experience at carnivals unlike freaks out for you so if you are I don't know pulled over if you are coming through customs and they can take by hand and lock it then that's a big problem Bertrand's review program and said dear you're literally the only person that understands or cares extinction between best antidote experience android phone I said I know but I'm sticking with AH I'll do the small stakes one and then the big the big one okay the small Sake Swan is like lots of people have like partners in roommates who would like to however the face I d things much better so much better than a fingerprint sensor it just is let's start the I wanna go into why Samsung well aid do their thing Dr Sun's right that's and that's either a little bit funny or not funny at all yeah my wife domestic violence attorney late that was like a thing right and refresh rate which is the whole thing and was real dumb and I'm not super pleased about the facebook trauma I think of all the gates are bad people were mad at him for the new but the gates ultimately have you know for certain that you know a cop put your finger on the screen or the hop opens hold your eyes open or something you know through day if you don't over use it but if you're buying the little one and you expect to like have a phone that you just like have on all the time and are using like you're you're in for her Don't don't do that I just like the long password that is your you know your bitcoin basically and so it's all about different methods of cybersecurity and the mantra is that biometric rex should not be passwords you shouldn't something that's based on your or your fingerprint or the way you look is not something that you can cbs so that of all the gates that wanted to me is the most important one in like I wouldn't recommend this phone until ship that update interesting but I mean that's like a maybe it was released like a lot of eight digits zero the Gif of Kinda going legs really GonNa fix this I didn't see how big a problem it was I I think that that's the Miss Right like we respect the battery is like a it's a dumb mess but it's not like a absolutely consent to it being accessed then you shouldn't be using biometrics to secure it's it's really it's a convenience it's not it's not a password yeah passcode Yup right the iphone if you press the right sequence of buttons and the right combination like it will turn off in you enter passcode to get you back to st right and so like like I said there's like the small-scale one which is more interpersonal does have some high stakes inside of it but then the big one which is the government has a distinct interest in unlocking phone has it all and it's weird they didn't overextend the hardware and they obviously emphasized the software Polish or is it no it's not weird at all I think that Google doesn't I don't know you didn't think it through miss the face unlock one is you architect it a feature and you didn't you didn't even look at the documentation of your competitor's feature and how we detection head of setting the screen stay on when you're looking at it what are they doing do they just want to be faster like do they screw it up because that made it slightly faster and they didn't think anything live a life and I like the without cops I know well the the other thing I've been noticing this bitcoin community because it's all about securing the the two -cially that's where they live now the question is what's going to happen next year because next year we are expecting a radical iphone just waits until you're not paying attention like if you're trying to secure something that is very valuable to you that you you do not want accessible unless you you can do that on the pixel to you if you long personal home there's a lockdown but that you can tap so it's not like the the grip of security but it is like tap tap the iphones really squeeze away they don't control the software that Google does right and so they are obviously competing hardware like they're they're doing when you squeeze the balloon that's where they go in the we've heard a particularly fell mock biometrics is this actually gets people to lock their phones so people are using nothing and so this is a huge step up from they what what high and hardware do they make they make the Pixel book from a couple years ago and everything else is still kind of mid range right yeah what's what's their premier holy crap this is the nicest thing ever hardware so google home Max eat I guess I'm just shutting out there that's it I think yeah vision we're expecting more five G. phones possibly from apple possibly from Google and this will be next will be the year where regardless of the head of hardware and Google has made that challenge easier for them to overcome so I think that's just a problem the problem is google didn't see it like it shipped with like little caveats down in the corner her and you know like if you read the fine print you saw it and then people started wearing woulda and it took google a few days be like oh wait we should tell everybody we're going to issue a software update we are GONNA F- assuming they fixed the face I D I I enjoy using this phone more than I enjoy using a note and it's not just that I prefer the slightly cleaner I think it's like really interesting to listen to people talk about privacy because like objectively privacy is important but also up until very recently my password on my phone with zero zero for something new intercom intercom is the only business messenger that starts with real time chat then keeps growing your business with conversational bots and guided are people chase each other around parks comedy skits about-face ID and like Google didn't watch them in so like that to me is a much bigger miss you WanNa know something funny Pixel four does have attention I don't see them making the super bowl commercial with the you know the darkness sounded like that's what sold the galaxy phones that's why galaxy phones like they just they just that's right like out in the world like it has a great camera it's an android phone it's a little bit cheaper than the flagship android funds it's a pretty good sell it works like an iphone still can try to market the hell out of this thing but I I don't know I just every time we ask about it we're like are you are you going to do it already had this conversation on Apple's information yet like we went through it a lot about attention detection and is open and there are memes yeah right there like tic TOC soccer on the ads and we're already at will next year let's not well I mean it's not the the phone is very good other than the battery life and closed where you're like Oh my eyes closed high you can unlock it that you get with like a an iphone is that really that big of a difference yes you think so you think that they're is directly managing phone hardware Google are you already next year his phone came out like last week everyone's already at next year with the iphone there already that's your for FM they're selling more funds eleven than anybody anticipated yeah you can't already be next the phone has already been discounted one hundred dollars twice it's been out and a Half Days Lancashire the universe with advertising and really expensive high end advertising and I just don't think Google hesitant to do that and given the reception of this phone I think it would actually probably be like it works like an iphone eight that's not subtle it has you can walk in your face and you can swipe around like an iphone is not part is not subtle Google could make the sale ah apple actually refers to the Khania Code Sablan quotas gonyea events or briefings and you're like what's the code Google experience it's like the whole thing feels more cohesive than a note does or a Galaxy S. ten or even a one plus one plus a little bit closer so they stake reception of this phone with like true nerds are people you pull on your car feel great you're one of us you hate songs by Fox hunt for us now it's no longer that people who try to steal my phone it's all ones back that's the part I wanted to get to you is like Samsung and like your curtain-raiser was it's it's more than the camera we haven't even talk to the camera but it's more than the camera and this is the year that it would and we talked to rick and he's like when all carriers are gonNA microphone wants on their phones you want a slightly custom galaxy S. ten Samsung's like we already actually made that for you bixby actually predicted your specific needs I just think I don't know actually you've said this several times like Samsung cell phones was advertisers the phones Sam also just let any carrier do whatever let it be windows horrible so I think the fact that Google feels like it has to make a Polish complete thing that is an expression of Google which basically the Pixel is good phone operating system unless you have a phone like you need to be able to test it on real hardware that's forward looking I will say like I as a pixel three user makes Google have to try and if Google just like relaxes and injured is a dominant player in the ecosystem it's the most popular operating system in the world like we're just GONNA so they will do that Google I think will not do that I think that's the thing that's going to keep them out of carrier marketing deals that's the thing that's going to keep the sales people in level of the Samsung phone and there's literally no inbetween choice and I think what Google Pixel camera pushed everybody else way so that we google keeps on making them so that they keep you know skin in the game of android being good and not just something that shovel to random companies which is going to be unsurprising to everyone which is I think the world needs more than two dominant filmmakers and Google can pay for it Google can wait out to get just because it it guarantees that every other vendor has to try hard it sets a high watermark uncertain and certain metrics but to point it also they've definitely improved my phone sadly my one major problem remaining is the battery life I have a slightly different question I mean it's to me it's the most important thing about the pixel is the thing that was important about the next line which is Google needs to be good at making android and make android good on phones and you can't make way fast before yeah nobody would nobody would've gotten there without without the Pixel camera completely agree so I think that part of the answer is I want this thing to succeed are your stores from earning commissions Google phones like there's a whole dirty world of stuff that Samsung is very very good at yet in that puts them at the top and part of it is just like straight bribes to sell the phones and part of it is marketing and part of it's like really glossy marketing I don't know if Google is ready for that they certainly know about it like Rick Australis now the you don't actually need to sell these things so what are you making it for cascade bit of a question like what does it matter to us that these are successful as android Tana's because he was in Beta for very long time so I feel like I was slow it was slowly being revealed to me and I was being experimented on with all these gestures but now it's really landed the game I think it is it is pretty bad if everyone's choices are clean apple experience that is very locked down and controlled or just the chaos I mean it's more helpful in the sense that the Google assistant is but one button away but like so Siri in a unless you are again listening to this show and you know that the one of my favorite features is the dual exposure sliders so there's one that's for brightness overall brightness and then there's one just specifically for shadow injured that world yeah because the question is whether he wants to do it I imagine they wanna see if they can get away with not doing it I also just want to point out I mean it's earning season and like the I'm Ogle won't breakout hardware and how much it hardware that's fine Gulu won't tell how how much money they make on youtube even if even if they don't go all out that doesn't necessarily the camera what do you think I'm surprised that it how much it's just sort of the iterative update to the camera now the thing is shocking to me like Samsung I don't get it at all I love that they know that they have a look in that camera and they hit that look and I personally really really like that look they actually turned it down this year listen I I think I can see it what's weird is it the look is GonNa come to the other cameras in the range so like the Pixel three is going to start is better than the iphone but is it gives you more controls at like it treat you with respect that you're not a total dummy right like I I appreciate that I mean it's a failure you know when we ask them what's your measure of success we always get the like oh it's customer satisfaction and like it's like fuck you bullshit but yeah okay but on the other hand precise outer limits of Syria compared to the precise outer limits of the assistant I don't know the phones more helpful Google Google's way better than Syria I don't know I just don't a better sensor it's a way less noisy sensor they're doing way less noise reduction slightly faster telephoto Lens that can go to higher shutter speeds cool I their their their camera is a camera in terms of like the APP in the photos of like that experience of I'm GonNa make a photo and then here's a photo it's the processor that actually does other work so you would think that Samsung can do all the work on processor Google could do all the work on the processor and it it just they own youtube they are on the he's the same age fifty five Marco Voy told us or not they're using the processor to do their imaging staff not the not the pixel visual core whatever custom silicon they're doing like to set a timer into like turn on a light okay I've said a lot about the camera I mean everybody knows what I said it's still bad video but neil you And then maybe the computational stuff will be the big upgrade right now it's just marched yards doing the same stuff who's doing before I think they solve that problem with the censor Google is using in diffusion still isn't that so I can't even be totally definitive I think apple solved often problems with raw horsepower right they just put in a google does more math and so they can get sharper photos in those situations because they just take more and shorter frames and so bright light the iphone eleven and can be sharper because it's just it's just better lens basically right it's it's a better system there and so they can do that work directly and not have to copy a Samsung and hallway they they will give you you know control settings for days that are either right there and the main camera app or just like a half a swipe away if you like blink added rose and then you're gonna live preview of it that's what the the neural core does apparently and that being able to like get the blacks exactly where you want them actually is great yeah I mean I think that's what to look like the Pixel for which is rarely interesting to think about as a camera like when you buy it an icon you don't expect that a software update we'll just change the way the camera looks apple just brute force it and they do longer exposures and they don't do as much math they have more blur in the light because longer exposures create more blur the end of the the thing that illustrates this difference is the photos are less sharp except in low light with moving objects or if your hands moving in those cases because I can't all those controls don't get you to a photo that's as good as the iphone the thing that I think that I've landed on with after all of this okay so I went back and looked like one of the things I feel most valued about like having reviewed phones for years is I said the tennis camera wasn't great and everyone yelled at me after a while but it's GonNa happen here because it's computational photography and that sort of stuff can happen just so it's clear like the look is coming but most of the features aren't a lot of the features aren't so that before and they were doing all the same math and then they were they had to do noise reduction and it just destroy it was destroying their pictures when you say they you're referring to apple built cool radar in put it in a phone could've spent more money on a camera or a bigger battery yeah we haven't even talked got solely which yeah no one seems to care about the phone slightly nicer in ways that that I preview said you'll live portrait mode they've already done a lot of hr and just take a picture not worry about it like Yep vastly different philosophies here but here again Google's in the middle because it's actually pretty good right and it sits next to the iphone whether or not anyone's going to buy this phone is more helpful than the iphone psycho screaming like shirt what apple is like really done with the video stuff right like the world communicates in video in like there you go it's better video camera and I I agree we'll just miss you will never notice and the the gesture thing you might use every now and then maybe to like change songs but that's not a real feature have you gotten any false positive accidental refresh rate down in situations that wouldn't wouldn't have thought of like when the screen brightness is low or when the more more more accurately I think is when ambient light is low everything could everything could be different or not hard to see you really looms over us like making sweaters in the night I want people to think of cameras for people like me okay so it has a high refresh rate screen but it dynamically ratchets it down to save battery life depending on what's happening and the thing that we didn't realize is it ratchets at had a bunch of youtubers at the thing and all the four K. thirty like they just looked to openly confused that's just a bizarre miss to me is that one are we going to continue our you photos forever we are are we having alive verge cast next week in San Francisco with Isaac Reynolds the product manager of the Google Pixel camera and Robbie ask Google Google says we've already been working on this we're going to put out another software update in the coming weeks instead of the coming months that will allow ninety hurts stay in go back and look at like the reddit threads and apple support forums and there's like dozens and dozens of messages are like why am I for my noisy why is this noise reduction destroying the photo since again to do a rapid video really quickly to get some mean potential on tick tock which means I needed to be stabilized I need to zoom in really quickly I needed to look descend from screen kept changing we couldn't figure out why because we didn't want banding you know you get that on a straight this is a thing where I don't have a hard time getting super mad about it the product the head of product for instagram together onstage to talk about how the platform affects the camera and the camouflage we are doing that next week Cisco the Glasser already sold out ah yeah that's like a big argument right do you want to clutter up the viewfinder with a bunch of controls or do you just want to look at a preview of what you're GonNa get an apples way better at providing it's dark out they just figure I don't know you won't notice the screener frustrate I don't know I actually don't understand this at all I don't understand this decisional it's very confusing but you can see it so everyone's think it through all the way the promise of this phone is that they've thought through the hardware and software together in perfect synchronicity yeah they did like it feels more so than like that's a seven I think and I like this is an eight other way around if the concern is battery life that when the screen is really bright they're like it's blinding you so persistence of vision will make an appearance that's that's the thing so sensors just less noisy I don't know if the math is different but it is coming in that might change how they do it are situations I don't know it does explain why it took so long for us to shoot bureau for the video review done like having to adjust camera settings it's just a sharper camera and then they're doing all whatever smart h. e. r. stuff they're doing and then you know sweater modal hit whenever it hits the next few weeks it's already talk this up to like Google being keystone cops not Google being like conspiratory conspiracy theory zone like they're not there's just it's just like they didn't think it is annoying I wish that it were just a little bit clear when you're at ninety and when you're not because you know it just would be nice to know what you're getting but I up and it was on the other side of the phone while talking the last gate hurts hurts gate the gate the hertzog aided they told us an off the shelf censor the photos are just less sharp there in many cases more aesthetically pleasing out of the box and you can get there but yup here's what I don't understand about that specific problem bright screen battery higher refresh rates a battery shouldn't it be exactly the all songs skips because you are gesturing during a conversation while also listening to music I have gotten a couple of hours reaching for a coffee is an irs like notifications are still a thousand times better than it is an I o s Samsung says like an always on constrain control it's like what refresh rate would you like talk to bixby computer whereas Google does have to compute so you can see it in the detail and bright light yeah I totally agree with that I think they were getting mm-hmm is a little chaotic that actually at this moment in time is just par for the course of our industry it's not even worth noting apple put out the iphone eleven and then they're like for hardware the reason that fall is so crazy because they need everything ready for holiday season but what if we break the the bounds of our calendar Dan you got ISO controls right yeah so google does in fact fall a little bit in the middle but San San we'll give you control something pretty slick arguably I was thirteen one is coming and they released like fifteen updates along the way to thirteen point one and they're gonNA release the actual software feature of the camera is still in Beta and is not yet all right we'll come back and curse jeff as a little more in a second this is now if you drop below seventy five percent then the refresh rate goes down and so I did that and didn't I was confused and then I covered the ambient light sensor strapped onto sixty immediately oh that's odd today the US is leading the world and producing natural gas and oil while reducing emissions at the same time in some cases production grew by triple digits Yup Samsung released a phone whose fingerprint sensor could be thwarted by any fingerprint and they promise the software update for it so that we're just at a point where the real world experiences so issues can be caught before they had all of this helps make the industry safer and more sustainable learn more aspect but like the they delay law and it's just because now it's become so common just to Polish so we're taking another four months it sucks but it's like yeah or like here's a question what is technology how you're listening to me right now on your phone console cycles like this phone for ten years yeah yeah but so with video games they know that their fans are just going to buy them whatever comes out but with phones they need to have it and Korea's active we definitely want the other thing the spattering reactive but the they want they want they know if you've crank the screen brightness up that you're what I'm thinking okay get out of here speaker a laptop that's tech but tech is also the way we develop new medicines it's our connection to friends and strangers yes got to say calendar has been imposed upon us it is a system that's thousands of years old it doesn't even make any sense Google attract that well by the way I wanna I wanna say this about the software because we mentioned twice Google has some problem they promised us some updates cameras or smart sensors to gather data even in the most remote locations data scientists can then use the data to make predictive models or simulate commissions fell by forty to seventy percent so why is that innovative industry driven technology take inspections what ties contact imagine you're inspecting an oil pipeline the terrain is rugged roads or non-existent in the pipe goes on for miles invest so we're going to ratchet down save the brightness but at the screen is really bright they can probably assume that you're looking at it or as you read to the screen brightness down like they don't care how this song like it's a low bar you're comparing it to right but there's a there's another high bar at the bar and they they don't quite hit that bar except that android is like better at so many things it's a difficult job but thanks technology it's now safer cleaner and easier your world world explained my head which was I wonder if at some point these is going to be able to write my novel ideas better than how algorithms augment flaws in crucial part of managing the supply chain with new technology workers can inspect underground pipes at nearly microscopic levels teams can use drones equipped with imaging Oh you made another surface you updated the processor and you put Usb on it finally thanks but what they didn't do was update the industrial design reduced the screen Basil's or do any every story is a story and we're going to break that down subscribe right now on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP from stitcher and the vox media because none of us are immune to those changes and we need to understand their impact right now that's why posting in new tech podcast called re about how the natural gas and oil industry is working towards responsibly developing the nation's resources at power past impossible dot org for people we'll talk to the bio hackers who are challenging regulators and scientific standards so would I sell crisper that somebody could looks they're trying to save battery life there they've ratcheted screeners down I'm not defending this I'm just I'm trying to figure out what the goal is to save battery life why would you be like you know when the when the one thing that needs and it's changing every day I'm Jim Ross and when I see those changes I see worlds I can't wait to dive into and question reviewed the surface laptop three fifteen inch specifically fifty inch with Dan reviewed yes through the surface pro seven is yep yet get from recode by Fox will examine how artificial intelligence is changing the way we write I had a bizarre thought Enter Act Bruno's and we'll look at the tools we have to save our rapid warming world Oh yeah I think an enterprise companies please continue to buy this thing it's it's it continues to be like the default to in one and it has gone from like pretty inspiring to like pretty podcast network or some other reviews this week of note yeah service press seven which drones I think you need fixed-wing detection inky satellite radar the public everybody it's we're all in this together you know the surface surface surface laptop three fifteen inch is it's just a big surface laptop exist if you ask somebody all right there's an expensive fifteen inch laptop what is it four they'd be like oh it's for like pro users and it's for people that want to edit video and zones are definitely coming out way ahead of their suffering finish what took a year off that'd be great yeah we can't they do with gaming those like gaming I mean not the crunchy what if we what if we just start buying everything late summer sure Amazon Prime Day right midsummer that's we expected and starting to feel a little bit Dowdy Tom said that he wished that it looked like a surface pro x which is the fancy arm one with all the fancy stuff and he's not wrong to me was fifteen inch windows laptops cell really well because people just want big screens and so they just there's always a a giant pile at best buy of kind of crappy thinking over and over again we're seeing these algorithms display by new amplifiers can have very serious real world consequence laptops that run windows but they have fifteen inch screens and so people buy them I've seen these laptops in the homes of friends and family her rather friends and their parents are friends if you want to surface laptop that has all the Nice Microsoft things and the option to have Qatar fabric and you know you can trust it and there's not extra crap there's just like a little bit of crapper under remarked product category across everything that we cover like you want to seven hundred dollars seventy five inch TV did effectively cannot produce right. I mean we've talked about I think we've talked about this a lot lately it's kind of a new thing that we've noticed but like the big cheap screen is an because Microsoft still screwing that up You just want a fifteen inch screen you go get that and so it's fascinating to me is for a long time the conventional wisdom I want to keep talking about the service for seven for the next half hour later the Pixel we can but there's literally nothing else to say about it they didn't change screen resolution than chains they just it's another surface pro seven originating in the waiting list and it's one person jobs out I think in this conversation part of why this phone is so controversial is crystallized my mind let me express it to you google anything else they just they just kept on put it out there like the surface pro seven is very much like well the factory stopped making the old one now we're making the new one yeah but I want a better camera to get that Tick Tock Cloud yes we should FIFA eleven okay this is very easy I think aim for the nicer thing in fact by the time is out I will have published the review of the pixelbook go which is a slightly nicer chromebook that is one hundred bucks more than like the rafter a sixteen by nine screen that's the thing that kills me it's very it's very infuriating people must not care I don't know a bunch of the other five hundred dollars chromebooks that you can buy and it's just like a nicer object but otherwise it's the same thing you're just paying a little bit more for it to not have a micro SD card expansion slot because but I fono eleven that's a big screen it's a little low resolution here we go it's cheaper than last year like it's a big screen and that's what people want and I think this is lack will only produce gray yep we actually the walls upon walls of them at your local store because people just want that thing and like fifteen inch slapped you wanted surface pro seven podcasts challenge go you said what you see on it let's talk specifically use not now there are four email APP center phone one only uses your one only uses the email app that at and t. wrote the just read email to all at and T. employees as you send it Asian of that the surface laptop version of that is what we just made that but nice and then people who want to spend the extra money to get the Nice version of that we'll be able to buy it yeah that's why I think it exists Yep just a little nicer of a big cheap screen on a bad place for Microsoft to play well this is the theme with Google stuff to like people are very unhappy with the Pixel four pricing but like you're just family they'll have they'll have hilariously restaurants everything's big on them yes fifteen inch ten twenty four by seven sixty eight let's go yeah so I think the V the surface for folks in the space are are sixteen by nine there's a factory that makes chromebooks and like GM there's like one factor cars and the Pontiac and Chevy so you can get light at Nj three okay but the fifteen inch service laptop threes actually interesting just in the fact that it exists because it doesn't seem like it needs missile book I don't know I don't think so because it doesn't have the micro sti or the USPA and all the other pixelbook do or all the other crooks excuse me anyway the the point is customize a little bit that's what chromebooks all right now is that factory interesting Wisco- actually make sixty nine streaming sounds like I know where that factory is located deaf actually make this unless you can actually if they're made of glue you can't sell them to a fleet that needs to repair them I think I think there's another pressure beyond just we all like Kyle and fix it and we think that he is good yep the apple. TV APP is now out it's out on Roku Amazon fire stuff is in is offering a bundle of Disney plus which is an nightmare a price level or just like head to head competitive level are worse in some ways but they're nicer objects and they have the logo on them I matt like the army of like various aunties who have horrible fifteen inch windows computers in the problems they have with those computers make noise the company you trust and so they just charge a little bit more yeah that's fair yeah I feel like a nice but relatively cheap fifteen inch is actually the twenty nine hundred everyone changed their components all the time on laptops five to ten years ago but now you're supposed to have a technician do it come on any little motherboard in the center just just throw it away see what happens when you let it on fire that'll be a good youtube video one last surface laptop thing to bring up I fix it tore down the surface laptop three the thirteen inch and I've told the truth they did make it way easier repair they haven't taken it as far as they should sort of five and they still say that you should break it really is under no I wanted you on specifically because we're in the lull the com- Before the sense to me like I got the call one day and it was like I picked up my keep my picked up my computer keyboard fell out and I was like I don't only allow a technician to replace the St which did we all become like static monsters yes the past five years data there's something I need to tell you about villars storm so exciting apple TV pluses coming out yet Disney pluses coming out yeah these CEO's are at conferences talking they're calling it and I wouldn't I tunes and there's a bunch of ads for the Apple TV plus which is exciting Basically just please grab this this is apple's attempt to erase its past right this is apple the whole thing away like I don't know man I can troubleshoot that for you like yeah it's it's basically a hollow plastic shell with at this point Martin Scorsese gives a shit about your basically said the party's for the shows are happening very rare thing right now I think Microsoft saw that sort of market whole Y- There's like there's the four hundred dollars fifteen inch and then there's the fifteen hundred not like icy surface pro and it's like in enterprise applications like all the time they're just like floating around yeah I think they wanna get those laptops in the same spaces and you cannot do it it's about the future of computer that's true I just don't think that was like enough pressure to make Microsoft the laptop there all right Julia anyway good on Microsoft for improving ability further to go we're talking about I really think it's because they sell so many to enterprise they don't have a Microsoft well if you do you feel free to Chime in Microsoft Word is though really closer to two thousand dollar pro fifteen inch but this is a whole I think and I'm really I'm glad that they went for it yeah I have like I think most people have that's what it's all happy with what's going on yeah I mean it's exciting so apple TV plus is gearing up to launch actually if you go into it tunes because I did that because it's two thousand nineteen being like remember when we did planet of the apps no you don't because we don't want you to remember it Gwyneth Paltrow doesn't remember it so it's fine remember we did Carpool Karaoke memory hold being in spiderman she's she remember this is the power being Gwyneth paltrow though it's an interesting time because apple is coming out first and this kind of six month launch window we have routes five or six services and in many ways this feels like the beginning of apple wanting to fellow Jeff Bezos and create a prime P and all right this is what we're expecting apple TV plus will be to apple what Amazon prime video is to Amazon eventually be trapped in the apple ecosystem and then you won't get out of it Zik and Apple News and Apple Arcade and we'll never hear anything about China and you'll buy cloud storage and you'll just be in this in this and so there I mean because eventually we'll get the inside people who aren't you Li- like eventually you're going to have apple world and so that's kind of like the exciting thing for apple there they've got a lot of money more money than anyone else in the space they can just give a shit ton of money to people they gave reese witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston a million dollars an episode. I show that's not out yet and given two hundred fifty million dollars to make a version of the newsroom which is insane it's called the mornings what every investors looking at because they have the potential to not necessarily destroy Netflix like no one is going to destroy net flicks but is essential to grow up to one hundred twenty million subscribers and so but with me to kind of hinge on it and so yeah I mean they're launching it's kind of exciting Disney is the big one in terms of disrupting Disney's the one that out or whatever but we're GONNA come out the other side like most flights do is and like five years they have potential to be very disruptive and change the theatrical going experience for a Lotta people change how money is flowing between consumers when they go to theaters or whether that's a lot yeah he's been around for a long time he's been out he's seen he's been around Hollywood during the good days so all this is happening yep this week yeah that's a big that's the show the show it's like they're all effort is run the morning show. Yeah it's based on kind of based Brian Stelter at CNN his book about the morning show are buying scoring two different things so it's like a weird time and but an exciting time Armscor says he said it's probably the most exciting time in Hollywood since he's been in it basically how retracing which is true I mean they've got a huge start on things in countries like India and South America which is a huge market that's untapped so is trying to compete essentially and what they're trying to compete with more than anything else is not Disney they're trying to compete budget wise with Amazon apple and that's too it's two different things and money on video and it doesn't matter to them it's like hey if you're here we have this thing for you all Netflix has its subscribers that is it and so they can only say they're going to be totally fine but they are also seeing on two billion dollars in debts upbringing developed about fourteen billion dollars they've never been profitable they're just could you imagine sorry guys I'm moving on which read would probably have a very funny common reed hastings came out and said like for the first time looks like had an earnings call yeah and they they don't think so so the thing is amazing everyday things like calling it take we have competition we know that we are basically telling our investors to prepare for a little bit of of of turbulence like pilots tell you when you fly through against the one thing they have going for them is that apple wants family friendly television and Net flicks is basically like we don't care we'll take anything and we'll produce anything and so the give Amazon and apple as a service industry so they thought hardware hardware that they make a lot of money on Amazon's got a huge retailer a lot of money on they can just spend have that create relationship but critters they have that going film they newly produced hits but give apple a few years I mean apple is working with Oprah and do too much right now in my opinion they're trying to do movies like by theaters and figure out exactly who they are and so what we're seeing happen is them trying to figure out so for net flicks they're kind of stuck in this boat where they're like Oh we have a lot of shows that we can continue renewing but we're burning burning content budget really fast we're trying wars movies I want to do nine thousand things I wanna make another star Trek I don't WanNa work with just apple I will work with you on something but I want to do that and so he turned that down apple's trying to buy exclusivity right so they offer jj reportedly offered j.j Abrams five hundred million dollars to just work with them specifically and JJ is a guy who's like I want to make more awesome we can continue to do a company like apple can go get a weekend and so we'll just do it and so that's that Netflix has to kind of figure out how they're going to compete this library so Seinfeld yeah right like Netflix buys older shows like famously friends is gets battered around for millions of dollars the they're buying Seinfeld because reportedly took a two hundred and fifty million dollar deal with Werner Media at and T. to do stuff with them because he's been with HBO for so long which made a lot of sense but that's the type of thing apple's doing they're coming out and going we will give you money we want to work exclusively with us the they've renewed all their shows none of them have premiered yet one is heard about and they're like it doesn't matter like we have the money we'll just we'll just do it Disney's doing the same thing Disney's already going out there and be like that's over new it it just makes sense we need content and Vuk Tim Kirkby swear thing is they have deals now everything is going to change in the coming years which is why it's really exciting but apple is point apple stopped in terms of streaming so they have to figure out how they're going to bring this over to their streaming service which means it's GonNa take about a year before you really start seeing things appear on the service but that said the photo is Tim Cook and Robert Deniro Barack Obama were at dinner together New York Dave Netflix deal now I would have just what I would have. Netflix should just put that on losing friends to eighteen which is just a nightmare sentence that we're GONNA be forced to say a lot apple vine that they're paying for new stuff apples and buying it yet are no one real knowing what they're doing they're making movies about dogs and like chimpanzees and there was like I don't know we'll just make movies then nineteen eighty-nine the Lamari comes out Michael Eisner Shoe Disney plus for are not going to be there marvel's a great example right you're not gonNA get most marvel movies because of rights problems Disney does not own the rights to a lot of marvel movies creatively fallow period for about twenty years and remember that for one year I believe in the seventies the Disney was run by an NFL player because they were just like well utilized for certain shows in Hollywood you do that for the walking dead and the Big Bang theory we were like people tune in it's fine don't worry just keep it going apples from renewing shows that and so things kind of changed around then and then the the Disney people know today is really the Bob Eiger era which is two thousand and four thousand five the lot of the things that people wanted subscribe possibly working with the Obamas who does based on proper on see photos and almost heaven athletes deal they just went out to dinner but I think they haven't inflict terminal our Jeffrey Katzenberg who's now doing quickly takeover and they're kind of they lead this charge right and that league runs up to ninety four when Katzenberg is then fired table chefs table is very much alike watch this chef she will not slowly cut right so he doesn't have any any prestigious shows don't like them because we're adults and we have taste but like kids do not have taste characteristics watch whatever they're very famous very like creator friendly artist-friendly they just have a lot of very slow moving shows right there's not a lot of they don't were they can advance in a space and they know that they can't compete with Apple's budget they know they can't compete with Disney's catalog so now they're just kind of going where this catalogue like don't worry about them being on youtube and seeing stuff they don't WanNa see yeah it's got most things that will keep your kids entertained and the thing about bad nineteen sixty nine hundred seventy Disney movies is like we no they're they're head of content Ted's does basically said this where he's like we can't keep buying shows for five hundred million dollars this is not some weekend which they did with Seinfeld this is problem with net flicks by Comex Zaib argument Netflix has paid for a lot of stuff over the past few years they have wet there graders have free reign wants all those movies out of the vault and it's like this catalogue maybe not as good as as everyone has been fearing it's like is he went through a very here's eight bucks I don't give me this hour a month of that conversations podcast Robert Deniro man what the fuck the Disney has a lot of things going for they have new original series they have all star wars they have all picks are they have all their Disney animated stuff and if your parent six ninety nine a month means that problem with their streaming half the team is into it half the team's not and every HBO executives out the door. Yeah so I mean that's a whole situation but h uh-huh talking monkey is hilarious to a five year old and me and so it's like they will watch Disney has it is he has no problems I was like listen you can probably watch somehow but then she eventually got Amazon and now she does watch Amazon prime stuff and she's like also buying toilet paper she's like did you know you can tara's he played for the Los Angeles Rams and he got knocked unconscious and game and Walt Disney this is John I'm just reading he said I don't want to be the father the fact that they're also doing a year with verizon freeze like I mean investors alone are like oh they're going to do they're going to a better than we thought they were GonNa do tell you the story of Ronald William Miller this Disney subsided apples giving away apple TV plus basically free for free to iphone owners one year one year and five the biggest apple Stan and is like already here someone's going to buy it so this you're talking about Netflix subscribers Netflix has to convince you to pay some money a month yeah wow that's what happens you marrying Disney family walt person is like don't die out there how about you run this animation studio and said he better anyway so this is to me amies this year and so for a while like my mom like this is what I think about when I write stories I dreaming is my mom texts me and she was like TV got really confusing and I was like yeah and she's like how do I watch TV and I said we'll do you have Amazon she was like no and so she's like I just WanNa Watch these shows so I suggest piracy to your children and you're GonNa die out you come work at Disney and then he became the CEO of this company for a minute it was like a weird company around with airports everywhere he's amazing and he's he's like I'm GonNa get Apple TV plus they already have music and I already have news and I'm GonNa Watch TV ON MY IPAD ear how will they get you to convert they will try to sell you another phone yeah they will sell you another ipad like at some point they're just going to give it away for some bundle and they'll they'll use in the ecosystem the morning show they won't be an emmy nominated thing arguably probably saying see it's not going to happen but these Jason Momoa is blind and like those like that's all apple's going they're like hey we're going to do good shows that you're paying attention to that you'll care about she get my mom I wanNA watch it I watched the emmys how do I do this and my dad he was right or they'll have a bundle it's weird in announce it yet it feels like they will yeah there was a report about how the music labels were like I don't know about that yet I'm trying yeah that's what they're trying to do what Amazon does I mean look at the recent emmys besides HBO The only other Company people talking on which was a weird thing Amazon owned the this is the HBO thing this is like Hbo is very selective with what they buy or has been under eighteen t the old change we're now resides act hits actually no stranger things that house of cards hyper drive hybrid wrestling my favorite show like chefs works. Yeah and you're GONNA get bundles if you spend what you're spending on Netflix with Disney you can get Hulu ad-supported Hulu an ESPN plus for free to just throwing it all in Disney you know Kevin who's the archetype of architect rather the marvel cinematic universe he's working with Disney specifically to do Marvel TV shows and Oh has an ethics doesn't is prestige like entrenched now and it's like a lot of Emmy Award winning stuff apple wants to do the same thing apples buying certain programs that will get them to the emmys that's the that's all they can do yeah or they convince T. mobile to give it to you for free yeah but that's like to make a bundle like that they gotta go out into the world and I've got money the enormous debt north but they also got money bills have investors who are like why don't you sell if your team properties like at and T. had an executive levels like ooh Hoo cameras name but he was probably the right in the NFL or Disney right is that Disney had a large period where stay away from their gets a bundled into the phone so everyone's going to get free for year fifth grade to Afon yeah that's an instant they're gonNA juice their numbers after surnames but that's my and that's personally these are the people that apple wants to get to where it's like hey my dad for example owns everything apple seventy-two while for Bundle now that seems very precarious yes so Netflix has the biggest thing net flicks has that they need to figure this is what they need to basically build upon and this'll be L. right comcast box via the parent company of the verge they don't like us very much because they named their servers peacock and we told people that they need in order the moral TV shows now interact directly with the marvel movies and so it's like hey you're watching the show if you go watch doctor strange there's a thing in doctor strange that happens in the show and be a family sharing apple sharing is not the same as just like simple password now you're part of my in Wanda Vision that you have to watch and so they kind of this was agents of shield but those are bad shows so nobody watched it but under like this one thing like there's a chance that it's like oh I have to get Disney plus because I am a marble Stan like that's what I and it's like well if I want to know what's happening I have to watch this show or you can just read the wikipedia whatever they're doing to the one hundred percent do that yeah so that just leaves Netflix thinks year ago was the big dog everyone was scared of it everyone thought they were like the unlimited data and verizon or you clarify us that's a great so they're just giving it away they're making that deal Disney also has themes cents Amazon obviously has the world's most famous fondling prime gap grapevine Disney plus like I said Verizon is going to give it away Berquin he's probably not going international probably going many places so what we have we have is Netflix and Disney in terms of national play Disney's GonNa take some time before their insurance markets and they also are doing the smart thing which is there instead of doing the Disney thing which is instead of they're worried because publications like Virgil Hoda Puerto Rate Stories they're like Netflix should be worried than the investors go ou know we're worried just a it makes me so so these two services are not going international let's throw in Quebec's I love Jeffrey about iron man and I'm like I have a new theory and he's like I don't I don't care who is your theory that you change your mind in Ironman too is bad no onto is great it's come in every day with new theories based on this is what working at the versus like everyone wants to tour and I feel like we can just do podcasts Julius enforce in South America netflixing buying those are paying subscribers coming in at a cheaper subscription rate they're designing specifically for Mobile in India because more people are on their phones well because it's a place that he's not going to comcast which has their own streaming service coming out peacock with NBC Universal Amazing. Yeah I feel like it's important to disclose three for the movie what Jake

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FaZe Clan CEO talks growing pains, global expansion, and lawsuits

The Vergecast

1:10:26 hr | 1 year ago

FaZe Clan CEO talks growing pains, global expansion, and lawsuits

"Everybody from the broadcast. This week's episode is wild. Julia Alexander joins me. We talked to Lee Trink the CEO of phase clan. If you haven't haven't heard of face clan pro-woman's or not a teenager face client is an all in one E. Sports Merchandising Influence Sir Marketing Agency the explosion of a company one of the most interesting platform based companies around. It is a cultural phenomenon. It was started by a bunch of sports players Lee he was the president of Capitol records came on a CEO. He's using a lot of the models of how to build the record industry for the new influence remarketing world girl Lee is also just a super interesting guy. He was really honest with us about the challenges and opportunities of a new business. This I'm just going to drop you right into it. Juliette I talked ought to him and I want to commend him. He answered our questions. We asked a lot of them. Check it out so tranquil. CEO Buffets clan. This episode is brought to you by Dell X. P. S. thirteen two and one laptop. This is the laptop for all your streaming been Jane holiday movie watching. It needs the four K.. Plus infinity edge display in del Cinema. Color provides crisp vivid visuals from the deepest blacks ax to the most dazzling brights and the DEL cinema sound. But he sickly. It'll knock your socks off the newly remastered X. P. S. Thirteen two and one from Dell with Dell cinnamon color sound and stream powered by tenth John Intel core processors. It offers unparalleled performance. Find out more at eight hundred buy Dell L.. This episode is sponsored by IBM Creator of the Code and Response Initiative dedicated to bringing open source solutions to address. Some of society's greatest challenges over one hundred eighty thousand developers have participated in the initiative this year with solutions ranging from an AI platform that takes care of firefighters health to who an APP that uses natural language processing to prioritize. Emergency calls. Find out how you can get involved at IBM dot Biz Slash Code and Response Julia. Alexander how are you. I'm good Lee trank. You are the CEO CO owner phase clan. How did you decide to capitalize Z.? I didn't do it. I wasn't around when they decided to do it. It was the kids that started phase. That did it and it. You know it's the same. See the founder the original founder phase. Temper Tommy to true who drew the phase logo Thank thank God. He did a great job. Did a great job and it's actually really cool. I That yet they kids decided like like most things about phase claimed the kids decided it. Yeah and I showed up late to the party to Try and turn it into a business or already deep on the. Let's start the start. What is face clan? What is facing a phase lane is a gaming organization That's you know that's really split up into two parts. There's the part that is kind of the Buzzword of twenty nineteen of of V. Sports which is the competitive side and you know where we have? We compete in six different games. We've got six six teams They make up about half of the phase as clan members about thirty five or so of of our of our members and then there's the second part which is content creators. which are you know we're making youtube videos were streaming on platforms twitch and mixer We're on snapchat or on doing stories where we create content. That is about gaming gaming. Jason there you know the things that relate to kids that are into gaming or or people that are into gaming and just their our interests I spent I spent several years trying to explain to people outside of gaming that they should pay attention to gaming and they should pay attention to what to what's going on and utilized sort of east sports as the tip of the spear because it was it was hot topic But now what I what I start to reposition it for. People is talking about gaming as entertainment and gaming his lifestyle which is even harder concept to grasp right. Like I I think there was like You know what you know. What the moment of like wait a second people are being paid to compete In video games like people make money on that. Like that's a thing right so okay now. Everybody knows that's thing now. The thing that I'm that I'm explaining is this is actually a culture. This is like this is like the lifestyle let surrounds skateboarding culture except bigger. I compare it to hip hop and I'm I'm not the only one I've done. I've I've had conversations with you. Know really significant significant people from the music business who also made that same comparison because in the same way you know hip was genre of music and when it started. That's all people people thought it was. But he's actually much much more And people built they identified with that with that lifestyle and culture and they they built their lives around around what that what that means. And that's what's happening with with gaming now gaming is you know I I I say often that gaming is going to drive culture and lifestyle for for this next decade for sure probably probably beyond But that's a that's a concept that I think most people don't really understand what I think to break it down a little bit further. You have a really interesting shing way of explaining phase you have a three pronged approach. which is that phases like the Lakers it's like MTV and it's like supreme so break that down a little bit for people listening? Who are still like like I get that people get paid to play video games? What is phase right so so? That's sort of the Lakers. Part right like Lakers or competitive basketball team. We are competitive. Additive eastbound organization we have teams that go and they train and they show up to tournaments and they compete for you know for for trophies and for for for money You know so. That's the comparison through line there The the comparison to supreme is that we are also an apparel brand and we're are going to branch out into other consumer goods and supreme is is specific in that supreme is the definition of that hype based model and we. We behave like that. Our power behaves like that. We've had you know individual you know clothing drops where we've sold nearly two million dollars worth of worth of apparel in one day. You guys closed down to Soho a few weeks ago. That was yeah we did that. was you know around four night World Cup. We had a pop up in Soho and yeah I mean honestly we. We were floored by that reaction. You know there are thousands and thousands of kids that showed up we we. We're begging the COPS. Just let us stay open for an hour so that the kids could come in and meet the guys and it was. It was incredible. So we we command that type of of excitement around our apparel And then there's the MTV comparison and there's two components to it so we we make content on Essentially a daily basis that reach a lot of fans you know our our collective social media footprint is is well over two hundred million you you know and the the consumption around the content is somewhere around five hundred million views a month. It's like a cable network and the other part of that That comparison comparison is not about MTV now necessarily but MTV in its heyday really spoke for that generation. And they really defined find what that was really gen-x at the time What they were into they were there? They were their voice. And that's how I view you face clan. We are the voice of this current gaming generation. We we uniquely understand them we create content specifically for them mm-hmm and at the moment. It is you know on the on the platforms like Youtube and twitch and and you know and snap and instagram. But that's the beginning we're we're not limited to the platforms. We can make content of any different length As long as it's authentic to who we are as long as it's something that appeals to our to our audience so I want to dive into platform. There's nothing I like talking about with me the executives more than how we will defeat the platforms deal united front. But you actually were in the music business. You're the president of Capitol Records you've worked with some of the biggest artists in the world. How did you end up as a CEO of a bunch a video game player so About four and a half half years ago somebody that worked for me brought me the idea and showed actually showed me an article About the article was mainly about the viewership of the the League of Legends Finals. And he made the suggestion. So what do you think about you know going into manage a team or teams. You've said at the time we sort of showed how little even understood understood back then because you said Oh yeah teams will manage teams and that really set us on the path and I started calling You know people that I knew within a it was really WMD. WHO's involved in illegal? And I because of the music business I had some great context there and I said Hey. I'm interested in this space. Can you connect to your guys. And they eventually connect me to to phase clan and the way it started was I was really started as an adviser. And then I had people that worked for me full-time that we're working on phase and then as the industry exploded as I started to really understand the breadth and the depth of what phase clan both was and what it could be I made the decision to close my my music management company. Because that's what I did. After Capitol ahead of my management company decided to walk away from from that business and go do this full-time so what was what was your first move. You show up. You don't have a bunch of pop up stores you don't have a house full of teenagers streaming video video games right now. You're this empire but you show up and it's a bunch of kids playing video games. What's your first move to? We're GONNA make money if the first movie was really trying to understand what's going on And and that's was no small feat and it gives me sympathy or empathy to other peers from The traditional space in terms of how hard it is to understand the difference between what the entertainment business has been for whatever seventy five or one hundred years who which dealt with platform changes and this new audience. This is there's a it's it's a sea change in the way. Hey these these fans want to consume their content and what their relationship is with with a brand like phase clan and. It's really hard to understand that because it doesn't fit into the NEAT little boxes that people have a tendency to want to put it in. They want to say. Oh it's like this or it's like that and it's a little bit of this a little bit of that right and then a little bit of something that's never existed before and it's that combination and then so the key for for for news how do you how do you turn it into a business we started bringing in. It's it's you know I have a partner that that I'm running with Greg's elco's the present the company and and also luck luckily for for all of us the same way I come from a culture culture business. He he came from the fashion in the fashion business in e Com. And so we also we had a unique past experience in which to understand that. There's a delicate balance between culture and commerce. That it's not just about where you know putting in as many cash registers as as you can in between the output of the brand and the and the consumer or the Fan. It's about it's about having a delicate balance in which you know you don't overly commercialize it. you're better off under commercializing. It is at least in the front end And it doesn't mean that you you know it's okay to make mistakes and certainly we've made mistakes But walking that tightrope between you know preserving what the Fans I love about it which can be smothered by over commercialization. And that's look we're still. We're still wrestling with that with that balance. What was the easiest money that you made Because 'cause I talked to. CEO's came into the business like looked around figured out what the Hell is going on. And I was like all you gotta do is flip that switch and we'll start making some money. What was the first I which inflict the the I would say? The apparel the apparel was was really the low hanging fruit because we emerge we weren't doing we weren't with selling selling enough apparel and to be honest. We're still not selling enough apparel because we're moving slow and we'd rather move slow and put leave money on the table then can go too far and start to you know to to hurt the what. What the impact? The brand is I mean you know that that drop leader that we did with you know it was is literally two color ways the the champion collaboration that we did you know it was. It was a navy blue and a heather grey two million bucks in one day and to be honest. I wouldn't say that we expected that the you know the first surprise I had was the first champion trump which we did a year ago. We did black Friday a year ago. And we we were just to just to give you sense of the fact that we were trying to understand. How big the brand was you know that I drop we did? We did black and red and we were debating leading up to it. We were saying all right. Well how many should we make the merge team was like we because we wanted to sell out we wanted to make sure it was exclusive and limited and we wanted to sell out and so the team was like we're going to do three hundred units and then set the talent pushback. They're like you know what let's do. A thousand units okay. Okay we're GONNA do thousand units. Let's go try it you know. I'm home in New York for Thanksgiving and we're all getting ready because you know mid midnight midnight on Thanksgiving the site goes live. We sold that thousand units in under two minutes and we just said keep it going. Call up champion. See how many they have. Let's keep going going. Tell him to turn it off when when they're done they turned us off. Twenty eight minutes into it. We sold six hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth and we were shocked. But that's it's also part of this exploration because all of these things are new. We don't necessarily know what the appetite is of our fence. And we're we're learning that so it's it's interesting to me hearing you you come from come from a more traditional entertainment space where you're beholden to sales international investors dealing with that and and a lot of this is new to you the law of it and I cover youtube. A lot of it is old for you to. This is traditional march sales. This is traditional like this. This is them monetize. Ing Para Social Relationships. This is saying I'm not beholden to investors on behold into my audience liking me That is how I sell my my t shirts. What did you learn from the kids? Coming up we're going. No we can do a thousand because we know what it's like when you came into it well a again they. They're gonNA have keener understanding of the relationship with with their with their With the audience right I while they've been in it for years when I've when I have well now at this point I've been in there for been for a few years but some of these guys have been now nine years into this brand and you know a lot of it was listening to what they said listening to what their concerns are pushing them where I thought it was. It was safe to push them and ex testing things out with the audience that that it's okay to make a mistake. I mean that's that's been that's been part of it is we. Don't you know the brand is strong enough that we can make some mistakes mistake and again. It's it's always better to sort of under you play your hand and overplay your hand but the interesting about the brand right and Is that it's made up of individual talent and people are fans of those individual talents and so it's not like saying I am a fan of NBC mixer and show. It's I'm a fan of banks. I'm a phase I'm a fan of rugs I'm here to popular people on Clan team something happens this past this year where you have the most popular streamer in the world A Guy who goes by T. Fu who was on face for a while and all of a sudden. They're just this storm of controversy and people are going knowing. What do we do about phase? Would we do support t food. We support phase. This is something that is relatively common in the youtube world. It's what drama channels exist. But it would have been new for you you. I'm imagining coming in. and kind of seeing what this chaos can be like. Now there's a lawsuit involved. I I was hoping you could walk us through how you're dealing with everything going on with with The the case right now yeah when there was a fight on the real world and the MTV that's my sound like very familiar with MTV like when there's a fight on the real world they don't sue Louis each other and then like make their own drama channel alerts about that right like that's new. You're actually in the real world so I'll I'll say a couple of things one one is. It's not so new for me because in the record business you have artists that sue labels. Yeah and it's it's not uncommon I mean let's say fighting with the label is really common suing label much less common but it exists. And it's something something that I've I've I've been I've been part of on both sides right on the on the on the label side and the artists side so it didn't feel that far and to me as as far as the ground rules right. There are some fundamental ways of of how you conduct yourself especially when it's under public scrutiny. That's really important so there were there. Were Lessons to borrow Lara from that. I think that part of the I think that even though it might have been common in youtube the drama but they weren't. I don't think the lawsuits were were common. And I think the reason why I was such big news in gaming it was really the first one and here you have. It was the perfect. It was perfect for everybody right. Maybe except for us us Where you've got the clash of the titans? You have the biggest gaming org and the biggest the biggest gaming stream of the biggest pro in the world in a very public very ugly ugly fight and you know everybody and it was at the right time when each sports was really buzzy term and and you know the global news so everybody comment on it and but what I would say a lot. Is You know this is not not uncommon in basketball or football and by the time we have the third one. It won't be global. Earth Shattering News Right. This was the first one and so it was really big news and also happen to be the way the way they did. It was a particularly ugly way. Well and then what happened afterwards. I think if you that A. Columbia Sorry capital being sued. Most people a capital told not to tweet about it most would it would not be public discourse of course from company Representatives right after the lawsuit went up. There was a very Explicit lengthy thread from face banks who up until very you know but a year ago was the face of face clan and this kind of people feel like they are entitled to Schumer's and Youtubers because of that relationship because they feel beholden to that so this comes everything that's mess. You're really quick. I want to know what it's like inside that house. When you're having meetings and going how do we do? Do you tell them not to tweet about it. Are you like change your name to assemble like Prince Look it's a real challenge because emotions are running high. And there's this need to defend right and it's it is part of Youtube culture and it's difficult to balance since the nature of that culture and some any emotional response that banks is having with sort of what we should do strategically as a business. What is the best thing to do now happens to be in this? The I would say banks falls into two things that happen one is is there. There have been moments where I've had to talk to hammer somebody else or whereas with a plea of please put the phone down. Just put it down just I know when you look at it and you read it. You can't help yourself because you're upset. You're understandably upset but we need to be measured we need to be coordinated in how we're going going to tell our story because when it was something that was that big we had really there were. There were two different pools. There was the social community but there was also the traditional media community and both were coming at us and and there's a way to deal with in this way to tell your story on socials but there's there's there's somewhat different way the you need to navigate the traditional the media world and to balancing that stuff while this is happening you guys are out trying to raise investment capital phase. Do what. What are those cars trying to say? We are a professional gaming organization entertainment organization. We want to do bigger things bigger companies at the same time you have the biggest dream in the world filing lawsuit and the face of phase clan going off on twitter in a way that is common with rappers is as common with Youtubers tyrod Taylor swift comment Taylor swift through that one. I feel like trying to position phase as a gaming organization Professional one while this is happening must've been difficult. Yeah it's it's it's difficult but you know I'm I'm also a realist About water the components that make us great and it is banks passion and the way he puts it all out like everybody knows who's reading what he's what he's saying that guys not scripted. He's not taking notes. He's not doing anything. He's pouring it straight from his heart through his fingers and out into socials and there's something incredibly powerful awful about that and so you know if you were to say to me. What would you rather have? Would you rather have you know somebody who is GonNa pour it all out and in create some time something. That's a little bit messy or not have it I'll take it messy because that's the real deal and ultimately what part of the reason why I think phase is so popular. Is We warts and all with us right and I think that it I looking back the the incident with T. Fu was it was a turning point for the company. The company right. Forget about the brand. I think more so for the company than than the brand and I I think the way we conducted ourselves I think the transparency in which we spoke to our audience directly and it was it was it was brutal. You know it was you you. My office was a was a war room there were. We were teamed in there we were talking strategy and Blah Blah Blah but ultimately what we what what the ultimate decision the overarching Ching decision is. We're going to talk directly to our fans and we're going to tell them the entire story and you know and that's what we did. Is that when you a lawsuit. Different lawsuits are different losses or not one on social media. Yeah so you know and and look it's part of what makes it complex because whatever whatever you're gonNA say on social media you know certainly could come back to haunt you in a lawsuit but you know for us. The the relationship with the fans takes is paramount importance. To what the lawsuit you know what happens with the lawsuit although we plan on winning lawsuit. Yeah I mean you were a DA. I was at the hearing. I'M GONNA win the loss. We're GONNA win the first the relationship with vans Is Also an interesting thing and I want to talk about one other Phase member possibly I. I still think he still face member but he moved out of the House. And we have to talk about Jarvis. Yes who was 'cause 'cause Jarvis for people who don't know was professional fortnight player are he was banned for our use a misdemeanor. But you see received only time Ben The thing is the reason why I called misdemeanor is because base is a powerful not just organization but company. When this happened I would love to know what the conversations with epoch were like? This is a popular player. Living in twelve million nine dollar mansion whose streaming who generates millions of dollars in streams and gaming touch tournaments so that conversation so what else says he actually he spires to be a professionally hidden up. He's not he wasn't signed as a professionally signed as a content creator He did not make it into four-night world couple. He came really close mm-hmm look it was brutal. It was tough it was but I think it's also important to be sensitive to epochs issues. You know do I feel like it. It was. It was a bridge too far. I I do. It's their decision to make not ours. We we respect their rules. But I you know I'm sympathetic sympathetic to a seventeen year old kid who you know who doesn't cheat during a competition. He makes video who he believes is going to be an entertaining entertaining. Video doesn't hide anything. Doesn't you know this is not something that was done in a in a dark corner of room. This was something that was done in broadcast listeners. What what did he do they got him and so he he made a video? There's there's a there was a weight at pays to basically hack the you know the Afford I game with an aim bought. And it's it's it's outlawed and he's basically said. Hey this is what it looks like when you when you when you use the program like that and even says so you know he says during the video don't do this you're GonNa get banned immediately and look his one of his mistakes. He made made several of them was thinking. Well if I do it on some random account not my account will then if that count gets shut down. It doesn't matter the seventeen year old kid. Yeah again You know I'm hopeful that with time. Maybe things will change. But we're we we support Jarvis while we We don't we don't support what what he did He certainly contrite about what he did. He's posted a video about he was transparent about it. Are you still having conversations with epic. You're saying you're hopeful in time L.. Change are you guys talking to Sweeney on the team over there. We're we're we are gently trying to continue the conversation but also it's important for us to be respectful and we've got you know we we. It's not a matter matter of like throwing wait around or anything like that. It's about look at this whole thing is new right. We're we're still you know gaming's been around for a long time but this level this this this public scrutiny the volume of of of Gamers that are you know that are playing the attention that we have. This is all new so I think it's important for for all of us to be open minded to kind of tread carefully and to you and to to life is long So the other thing. That's it's new and this is an issue personally. Close my heart. I covered a lot is a lot of content creators youtubers twist Schumer's feel like they have to constantly be besting their last video right so it's it's constant output. There is a quote from a New York Times article about phase. Where one of your Schumer says spend ninety percent of my time in my room? I just want a day off and and that's because they have to create content and you guys are more than an organization. You're more than just a bunch of kids your company. And what are the mental health initiatives when you've got burnt out as a major issue that we're finally talking about with you to twitch and and that's an industry wide thing. Do you have mental health resources for for the players for the content creators. The no we I mean we we. Are we speak to them about it. We have our managers sensitive to it. We never are pushing the output level. All right the the these kids are they tend to be self starters But the reality is there needs to be more awareness for our guys but also for the overall industry and and you know historically mental health has been not something that is is is talked about You know openly I think we have. We have the ability to change. Is that we've talked about. You know we've talked about really. What is you know what what are phase charities? What are you know? What what is philanthropy? Look for look like like for us and we talk about things that are really key in corridor guys and we talk about the the mental health aspects it is paid content for our sponsor over there Meghan. Hey I'm Megan keystone my sweatpants Julie Crochet and this is streaming. There's very strong straight. Talk brought to you by the Del X. P. S. Thirteen two and one latte the laptop it's tailor made for the binge watcher in all of us. That was amazing every year. The holidays you know my number one tradition is just going back home and watch my grandparents watch television. What's your like holiday time tradition? Watch wise. Well I really do love subversive movies like die hard gremlins to like the non. Traditional movies are my tradition Russian but if we want to talk about tradition like every single year I watched a doctor who holiday special I mean like I have a little bit of a tradition myself that I just has got into the past few years. It's you do you watch a bad Santa and then it's a wonderful life. It's like a salty sweet combination. I can just go into grandma emma sewing room. You know. Lay down that leaking air mattress with my laptop. It's pretty much like watching television. But not surrounded by your young cousin farting affording on demand. Or whatever no one's asking me what I'm going to get married real talk man that cut to the bone escape into your favorite holiday movie with Dell's newly remastered ex-pm thirteen two and one with tension Intel core processors with incredibly at least move streaming. 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LLC AN SEC registered investment advisor for disclosures into learn how to claim your ten dollars invest invest visit www dot sash dot APP. You're in the music. Industry like throwing stones run tour now like they're gonNA sell out that stadium there by lovely old guys. They can still do it. They could get back together and they can work their schedule. Is this career sustainable. Can you be fifty years old old in do a reunion tour fortnight. Can you sell out the greatest hits beginning right so like you look at the underlying the assets of other media industries and. I don't know we've got a book that we're GONNA write and we're going to sell the book and that's an generate revenue. Even if I don't have to work ten hours a day every day I'm an ageing Rockstar. I'm GonNa Collect checks and maybe a Mike you know what I'm Jagger do this one more time and we're going to go out a stadium. Is that sustainable for this is kind of career. I think we're GONNA find out. I think that I think it's about evolving with your audience. Your audience is getting older and the your audience is going through some. I'm Evelyn. You know the difference between what these guys do. What the rolling stones do is? The Rolling Stones can play their hits from forty years ago. And it's it's about an astrologer moment that doesn't work with this right so you but most celebrities can capture that. Not necessarily if you're an if you're an actor or if you're a TV v writer you can't narrow got D age. She's strutting around eight hours at a time has got way bluer Those are the rare exception in general. You have to figure out what you're next thing is even as a musician if artists that do some some type of evolution or we tend to refer to it as reinvention where. I don't think it's reinvention. I think it's it's evolution And I think that you know I think we need to instill that concept with these guys but the other thing that they have available to them is because of the way phase as a business ernest you can also evolve from the content creator and being from one side of the camera to the other. So you might be able to you know. Look the I think the one thing that a lot of youtube is aspire to be is X. youtubers night he keeps saying that but that's what we know a lot of people wanna the X.. Youtubers the thing is though you actually hit on interesting point which goes back to your three pronged rule about laker supreme an MTV At MTV at certain point you age out of being able to be at A. Ah and when you're playing professional basketball the Lakers you move on to becoming a manager or coach. Liz Your two options. You go behind the camera. Do you worry that as or you're just rich and you're done that's like another guy's wha- why not if you're certainly what being rich does it gives you you the opportunity right. It gives you flexibility too to follow. What your what your passion might be outside of that but I think part of what we don't know is is what does it look like? You know our guys. The the oldest of our guys are in their mid twenty s right so we just haven't explored that yet so we don't know what that evolution is because even our audience they're really young when our audience starts to to get older. What do they want? And if I if our team members can satisfy what that next iteration is of what their current audience wants. Then they're gonNA they're going to remain relevant they might be relevant to different. You know a different side of the demo right now. The demos pretty young right like for for the most young players too. We Sign Young. Fourteen youngest for twelve is our youngest was that contract with quick. It's it's a minor contract it's signed with it's done with the with the parents streaming youtube or twitter about that may not be able to stream on youtube come January January first new guy. That's that's right and and look we had an incident which you know t t fu outed one of our guys being under thirteen and he got kicked off twitch and then look you know. Does that mean we shouldn't sign people under thirteen. Maybe you know this was when we signed high sky to be honest it was. There wasn't a lot of deep thought about it. It was a kid we liked. We thought he was talented. We thought he was exciting and we were like. Let's go so let's do it. Because it's part of the exploration of of what should we be doing. I don't know sometimes we have to try it and go. Has that feel. How does that fit within within what we're doing well? Is there an ecosystem of like entertainment attorneys. Who have lived on that on the client side of the deal right like you know you're you're going to show up kids twelve? His his parents are like you're GONNA get paid to play video games. Price Stars in is but do they have a a lawyer whose negotiated with you six times already. Who knows that? They shouldn't give up all their merchants or all of their likeness rights. Or what have you eighty percent of so I think it I think it depends. It depends on who they use and you know. They're not a lot of lawyers who are well versed in the space But also the one thing about especially minors. Those deals are short deals right and you know for the most part. We don't take a lot of rights you know. We're we're the good news for us is because we have the brand rand to commercialize. It's not we don't have to you know we don't have to rely on the revenue that we take as a portion of whatever the individual Joel towns is. That's the you know if we had to make if we had to build the business on kind of the percentage as a manager as the brand of of of of our talent we would be would not be a very illustrious business but that's an it's an aspect of it because it's you know we're we're providing them with tremendous indus value. Take Take High Sky. High Sky his first instagram post was join face today. Two and a half months later he had over a million Followers we helped him create a real business. Is that his business to run on sponsored posts. Everything that's his business right. We take we take vague. We take twenty percent of the brand deals feels that we bring in. But that's his business. Those are his brand deals. He doesn't have to pay. No that's not true because we you know if he brings his own brand deals part of the reason why he's able to get a deal because he's an interface clan and I've had this conversation directly with with talent. Not You know. He's a kid but without with our other talent talent where they're not kids. They're they're adults and you know and I'll have an honest conversation with them and say and I will say I believe if you bring in a deal if you get a deal directly it is partially because of your participation your your membership in phase clan and so I think even if we don't bring it to you directly we've provided twenty percent value you know and I would ask him directly. Do you think the brand deals you get. Are they twenty percent more lucrative because a phase clan. Forget about whether they would be walk in the door or not but for phase clan but are they more valuable so that opens a question about the situation currently in which we will deem the Creator Wars. which is what we're seeing thing happening? I I love wars that are not actual crater wars for more. This is also a platform war. But what we're seeing is a lot of people people Decide if they want to take a deal and go to a company like Microsoft's mixer tw- Amazon's twitch Google Youtube. I like seeing two names It Youtube is now trying to get into it as well if someone comes to a popular phase member and let's say it's mixer and they say we'll give you ten million dollars. Exclusively on mixer does phase. He's got a big portion of that and if not can they walk away from face if they go you know I wanNA walk away from this entirely and I wanNA take deal Do they have the option to back out of their contract. If no if they're signed to our contract I mean that's what contract it out though a say. I don't want to be part of this right now. Khun Jeff bezos out banks it. Listen I guess when somebody comes to us with that conversation. The answer is look if somebody's unhappy and doesn't want to be in phase clan. We're not you know I don't WanNa put a gun to anybody's head but it also doesn't mean that you get to walk away from the contract. I mean honestly. That's the situation. All they wanted was to be out of the contract which is convenient when we helped helped build him from when we signed him in his total socials were four hundred thousand and in one year's time we went to twenty two million. Are you guys having conversations with the platforms. Themselves is to do exclusively deals like have phase conversation with And so are you at would you signed to an exclusive every pays members going to be only on twitch. No I don't think we I don't think we do that I don't think we can. I think it would be a bad move for us first of all. I don't want to drag our players kicking and screaming anywhere which is a bad luck is bad idea? I don't WANNA I don't WanNa see you know so the seeds of of of acrimony But would would we look to do a deal where we say okay we. We'd like to come in and offer. Maybe people that we signed new newly signed. I could see us doing that where we go to a mixture twitter caffeine and say okay. Everybody knew that wants to sign to phase if they're not an existing deal has to sign. But then that'll be open. If you want to be a part of phase you go into this steal and to me it's all about if you're transparent if you're open about it if you're open about the the commercial part of it it's business right. I mean you you know there's when when when we sign somebody to phase clan there is some cost first of all. There's a cost of what we do to support that that talent. There's an their indirect costs. What we do on the eastbound side right which is which is not not a lucrative part of the business? It's actually it's it's it's an expense to the business. What we all that money that we spend on East sports helps all of our content creators because it makes the word phase in front of their name make all all of us more powerful actually? That's an interesting point. I was going to ask I want you to responsibly. Mark Cuban said Mark. Cuban big investor has any sports team. He said In aggregate it's a good business e sports but is it growing yes but domestically here in the United States. It's an awful business and for his his whole point. was that East. Sports works internationally rationally really well specifically in the Asian region's not so much in the. US work is growing. But it's not where it should be. You guys are possibly exploring Asia as definitely exploring during Asia so talk me through. That is sports that you want to grow in Asian territories where it is a business it is a lucrative business. We're going to grow east sports. Globally we're GONNA to grow the brand globally. We're going to grow the content globally. You know we we are the most well recognized gaming globally sort of by accident by US Moses. You know all of our members have just been making content in English and you know not with with not with any eye towards how do I tap into that Asian market. How do I build more Asian? Didn't even thinking about that. They're just doing their thing. You know which is I think what's incredible incredible about where phase clan is now all of the growth has been organic all of it. You know we don't have a head of marketing. We don't do marketing. We don't have had a social media now. That's not to say we're not going to do it. It's part of it's part of turning phase into being a fully operational `rational organization of fully operational company. I mean we're still you know a year ago we were. I don't know twenty five people. Twenty people now are seventy five and were. We're still you. I can't hire people fast enough to fulfill the business demands that that I need and I think the question the gaming side people who listening and our and our very teesport sportsburry to gaming is right now Phase is not in a League of legends or starcraft I believe correct looking into developing its Asian markets where legends is arguably lead. The biggest game with starcraft is the idea then. To partner with local talent and and and have people working overseas working directly with them setting up the streamer the houses that are so common in Asian markets. Is that something you guys want to explore entirely where you really say we're gonNA commit to this. We are committing to global expansion and we are going to be boots on the ground in a lot more countries in Asia in Europe in Latin America. We're coming We we are. WE AIN'T A. We're just getting warmed up right that the you know we've been running we've been running every you know like we we just been figuring out what the hell to do for the most part right and just trying to hold onto the size of the brand catch up you know. It's a huge brand with a small business that we're trying to build the business into the brands kind of an unusual Chronology analogy normally the brand in the business to grow up together but there's a lot of opportunities in Asia opportunities in the rest of the world. What we are counter strike team is one of the best counter strike teams in the world with with some of the most popular East sports players in the world? And we don't take advantage of it properly because we don't have We don't have infrastructure in order to monetize it. But we're GONNA fix that so it's it's funny you said you don't usually build a business. I think that's true for most companies in my corner of the world the tech industry. That's very common right right like you. You build a search engine and all of a sudden you're like Google like how do I I guess we're just GonNa shut runs faces until I die. That's that's what they do. That is a pretty common common scale story on the tech side on the tech side. Yeah and so there are some points of scale here and I'm just GonNa ask you about one at some point you as a CEO. Actually have to exert way more control over your sprawling global business then a bunch of kids in a house where you're begging Kazakhstan at some point. You have you know you have to do that. Are you seeing that already. We're figuring out where those boundaries are and we're figuring now what so on batteries are going to sign people in say maybe you're only unmixed because Microsoft paid paid the company and I throw that as an idea like we'll do it but I would I would say is I'm going to explore all of the I'm going to look towards business practices that can help me create enterprise value for her face clan and figure out what's the right format but what's what what is always the backstop is the audience and the fan base. And what's what's what's interesting and what's been you know a real education for me. Is You know even though I was president of Capitol Records which is is it has a name recognition. The fans don't comment on my business decisions and or the business decisions of Capela I mean with rare are exception whereas the fans really do care and it's part of being in this community And and and so I think that even in the exploration of for conquering new frontiers and and looking at new business opportunities. I think it's all about being sensitive city to be the the players and what and how and how it impacts them and also how it impacts the fans which which just makes it a little harder to get to where you want to get to okay so the next challenge in scaling. I mean we backed into media company organization like it was like me and twelve of my friends in started verge and we have a company podcast studio. It's not exaggerating. It's a very confusing situation. I don't really understand it but you need to have seven or chart. You decide who's going to do what. What is your org chart? Look funny enough. It it doesn't look dissimilar to a record label. He was all right it but but to be honest. I I don't think that's because I'm personalizing and I think it's because it makes sense. I think departmental we do a lot of this. And if you if you pull the Lens back a bit and you know and and almost take the subject matter out. What are we doing with this? We are we are discovering talent. We're trying to develop talent into being popular. We are trying to make sure that talent has a long career. And we're trying to commercialize the talent talent in a way that doesn't kill the joy that people have in following it. That's the same thing that you that if I made that statement you know nobody knew my background and what I'm doing you would know whether I'm talking about a musician or whether I'm talking about a Gamer right. That's the same fundamental format You know the difference difference between what we have and Capitol records. Is You know when you signed to phase lend the day you signed to phase clan. You are much more famous than you were the day before four and when you signed to Capitol records or any any record label maybe amongst your friends your your famous but in the in the outside outside world you're just not so two things. One record labels are not universally beloved by artists. They're not necessarily even right now. Universally loved by fans fans are much more aware of the dynamics between labels and artists right now too but I mean prince like there's a a long history of fans being aware of the extreme labels aren't as to the reason they didn't get famous when they signed is because they hadn't made the asset yet right hadn't made the single. They had made the album album. Okay your players are the asset right. That's very different. Yeah but but what I would say is when you put the name phase as in front of your name what we do. is we shine a very bright spotlight on you and we bring our immense this fan base to your doorstep and so that it's the it's the story why how and when we signed him US eleven year old kid went to of million followers on instagram. In two and a half months listen week he we wouldn't have gotten there and he wouldn't have gotten there unless he was compelling personality but we also gave him the stage we put him on a stage. I'll I'll tell you the story about about when we signed him so you know we sometimes take our time. We see talent we are part of it is not even having a up somebody in charge of recruitment. It's organic every every which we video gaming aiming your department now. We have been watching youtube important. which just people who do it in the context of sort of their everyday lives and they see somebody or they play? They play with somebody and they're like. Hey this kid kid is good. And that's how it started. You know there was one of our you know one of our talent managers and one of our founders. Where like you know? Check this kid out. Hey we talk about madam occasionally and then we're like okay. Let's go sign him and then word got out and another org came in and started throwing money around. We have the luxury of with our content creators we we. We don't pay the content creators we give the content creators platform to to create a business. That's that's our model and because we can bring so much attention to them and so you know they had gone dark. The Dad had gone dark. And and you know the kid was onstream and we were like trying to sign him so one of the one of the founders said sent out to the guys. Hey look we're trying to sign this kid if somebody can go host the stream. This is a kid that normally got you know. Two hundred three hundred people watching stream so our guys started hosting the stream went from his normal three hundred one thousand two thousand thousand ten thousand thirty thousand forty thousand sixty thousand people watching this kid stream because phase clan pointed the spotlight on him. The kid in the middle of the stream walked off stream put on a phase clan. Shirt came up. And that was you know. And that's how we knew we. But that's the power of phase as clan. And so it is you know it is the combination of US bringing our fan on fan base to your doorstep Yep coupled with you know US picking great talent right we been really adept at picking people who are compelling Great Gamers Great Personality Eighty great entertainers and that combination is explosive. But I'M GONNA ask you straight up because I think you're going to answer the the crisis of the now. This conversation is fascinating. I even really straight with us. So the criticism of the music industry is that you churn beautiful young people you milk him for money and you kick him the curb if I if I had to describe as uncharitably as possible the power of a huge gaming brand the can shine a spotlight on twelve year old for twenty minutes and then and move on. I would say that would be the biggest risk of that. Business model is that you'll make people stream until they burn out and they'll move on and you've if you will always have a ready supply people wanNA play against your money. How do you how do you avoid that? Look you can't stop burn out or you can't stop somebody somebody who doesn't WanNa do it anymore. Contracts specify specific the set amount of time that they have to minimally stream absolutely number of videos they have to produce absolutely really not an especially. If you're talking about our miners we spend a lot of time with the parents really trying to educate kate them on the fact that the can't put pressure on these kids. They're GONNA have inherent pressure they're gonNA feel it they're gonNA want they're going to be excited. You know look happens to be like a kid like high sky. I've I've never seen a kid. nonplus this this by everything. He is cool as cucumber right. That happens to be his personality. But it's really really important for to talk to him or his parents or sways parents or you know our mega parents and to to make sure they. I understand that the kidneys balance kid needs to be educated kidney. You know that that don't put pressure on him. That's actually going to do more more. Harm the good you know. Keep it as an opportunity help them build it and so and support them and listen to the feedback so so. The kid doesn't have burnout in traditional entertainment. These they're protected by unions. Their kids have to work certain. They're specific circumstances for when kid actors can work in canoe. That's actor musician. Do you think looking the as as talent gaming in east sports and streaming becomes younger and companies like phase Kleiner interested in pursuing Signing these kids. Do you worry about a chance where people I think of L. A. Court saying we're going to look at protecting kids who are now working for companies enter generating income for companies and are working. They're producing content. I I would be totally open to that. I have love. I'm going to an element of out myself. I'm GonNa just because this subject and I have brought it up in meetings I have sort of a maybe uniquely positioned to understand this because I was a child actor so I really understand. This is the breaking news. I understand some of these dynamics so so I have a real sensitivity to it and I look anything that protects these kids whether it's Cubans law. I mean the dilemma with coupons laws. It's only in New York and La. It should be national now that you know like anything that's going to be going to protect kids. I'm also we've been talking about kids a lot. And you've referred to your your crew is kids. Look I'm the old man at the company's that's fair but like this make sense eleven year old makes sense for a teenager. You can talk to the parents. You can say apparent you got a twenty three three year old. I mean every sports team in the world faces from Oh hey twenty-three-year-old they've got a bunch of money for being talented it a thing. Their parents don't stop them from making mistakes or working hard or burning out partying too hard or breaking up girlfriend instagram. Or whatever happened with face today like ah how do you manage that one day time. There's something that something that you're thinking about like I need to of course clauses yeah morality clauses are You know we. There's a code of conduct is not. I don't think we have it as I actually. I'm not sure if we have it as a morality because but we have a code of conduct So how do you respond to me. Like what eulogise reference. which is that? There's this ongoing drama between phase banks who is face a phase and the allegations regarding abuse in the past relationship Nothing proven oil occasions but it's very public. It's all on twitter. It's all on instagram. It's everywhere anywhere online. How do you respond? You get caught again from investors who are like what is the story. Because now you're breaching a territory that is concerning. Yeah I mean I I would say a in this particular one. No we didn't but we've certainly gotten calls for investors about certain things certainly when the T- fu lawsuit happened. We got calls from a lot of investors. We lost brand deals because of it. You know we had deals that were closing or basically closed in about the launch and they just. The brands got cold feet. Because nobody wants that kind. The pretension and look it's part of management. You know I as somebody who managed artists you know. Look I managed kid. Rock was a handful like you. That was a that was a crash course in you know managing complicated personalities which we have the same you know look banks that complicated personality but but you know really compelling individuals tend to be complicated And you know we Tamie we talk a lot about About you know personal issues. We do we do get into personal issues partially we WANNA help our guys We don't so you know we want to make sure that our guys are on the right path like there is some feeling of responsibility To to to the team members and talk to each other like that's part of how we talk about it a lot is like we're all inextricably tied right like we're in there. It's like phase for life for for all of us should be live in house together. That's right house. I do not live in that. And there's another house beside it in that house. I do not far but ask you what you said this several times. Now you've called them our guys yet. It's mostly all guys it's actually guys. His gaming is not I would say the most progressive culture especially in some of the online games it is very mental dominated. It's a bunch of young guys is. We're making mistakes. who had access to money? INSTAGRAM on. All of the mistakes are there to be made for the wrong kind of culture developed. Are you thinking about how you might use. This platform uses influenced actually change it without without a doubt and I think that You know maybe the first step in the first of many any steps is you know when we signed e walk this summer first female to To phase ALSO HAPPENS TO BE A. You know a deaf Gamer And we we have to. You know I think citing female gamers is really important to us It's something we talk about a lot. You know the challenge. You don't WanNa sign somebody just because they're female right like we WANNA WE WANNA look for great female gamers fit into what we're doing and and you know and hopefully and even e- walk herself is is is really interested in becoming a role model title for other female gamers and so it starts with the first one and it's not like we don't want to do it as a stunt right. We don't want to sign another one as like it's it's we. We have a tendency to be slow about signing in general but we need to sign more females. We need to sign a more diverse roster and and part of our global outreach also enable us to do that Prepared for cultural issues that arise. I think I think of a bunch of mid twenty year olds in a house together together or online together all hanging out a bunch of dudes into gaming and I think of fraternities that never causes problems. I think fraternities. And they think if I was a she's great. She's phenomenal player. I think if I was a woman coming I'm coming. I'm coming into that situation. There is a pardon me where my guards media because that is just society that's life. How do you approach that? We're like we WANNA make the person feel comfortable and we also have did knowledge that we have this very bro Dynamic which is sold a lot of shirts head on and with transparency. That's it it's like and look that maybe this is why I have a tendency to over share even in in in circumstances like this because we can't be afraid of what what is we we've gotta we've gotTa admit admit the the things that we've got to do better. We've gotta look at where we you know. We know new horizons to conquer but we gotta be open and we were opened with E. Walk in and in her family You know we spent a lot of time with with With her and her and her family was really important. It was important for them to understand who we actually are which she's also not necessarily the same as the persona that exists online. Right like you know banks. He's of super-sensitive guy he really is and and he's full of bravado and he's he's a Rockstar. The guys like you know a trust me. I I speak from experience. I call this like it's he. He's cut from the same cloth at a lot of rockstars that I've that I've worked with But he's also really sensitive guys really. He's an emotional guy which which also comes through who in social media so last two questions one tobacco companies cal things. The things you said about diversifying your roster same Google would. I'd say to US Amazon and say to us their mistake was they started way too late right but they'd set a lot of the same things and one of the mistakes they made was. They didn't actually have recruiting recruiting organization. Built into the company was going looking for for people. You just said I don't have we have this very organic right. This is one of those like you gotTa scale. You've got to install all the hierarchy. You need a recruiter. You need a head of marketing. Social like started telling people what to do. Can you preserve that spirit while professionalization relation in saying to a head of recruiting at of talent. Go find me more diverse candidate pool. That meets meets our needs. Yeah I mean we we have to get on with it right. I mean and you know to visit mistake. The tech companies all made no no I. I agree like they're like if I could hire these if I could put the the the the people in the chairs tomorrow I would one of the things I'm also hirings the head of HR which I think we hire. We might have hired her yesterday. So I'm I'm more breaking news. I got childhood. I think now you know. Hopefully we closed that deal but yeah I mean that's step one and that's been part of the obstacle in my it's also a challenging business to hire people for because what's interesting is because it's so youth culture so bleeding edge that you know you you have this the you have this kind of the how sophisticated you are as an executive is sort of inversely proportionate to your understanding of the subject subject matter and so it's it's a search for the sweet spot between people who are grownups because I do need more grownups in the in the in the building in room. Yeah like people who have a not just a maturity. But I'm talking about a business maturity I I'm talking about people who really understand Stan how to balance these very complicated issues. And you've you've sort of depending on what the roles are sometimes lean towards all right for this role. I need need somebody who who understands the subject matter and I'll have to work on their seasoning versus some roles. You go this is one I need the seasoning and I believe I believe that they're going to apply themselves to really learn the subject matter. It's actually two more questions one. I said we're GONNA talk about how we're going to defeat the platform so we have to do that. So so you live in a world where most of your contests distributed by other people's platforms also the world. I live in some very sympathetic to it. But you've got youtube rules you got twitches rules yet. INSTAGRAM's rules you've got twitter a lot of big companies that have a lot of ideas about how people should make money on their platforms. How are you managing all of that? Back to the one data time preferred platform. You played them off against each other. Do you WanNa Start Your own. And I'm not going to compete with instagram. I'm not going to compete with any of those. This things now. Are there other options. That are available to us that that we talk about for sure. You think you're GONNA move your audience to those other. Maybe I can do both I I. It's part of the exploration of Howard developing the business right like I wouldn't say okay. You know starting January first we're moving everybody to Ott and take everything off the plan that that sounds like a terrible lot companies doing that streaming service. He's blessed but I wanted to ask you guys in business twenty percent of that. It's much but we're exploring all of these options right. Should there be an APP where you can explore a deep rich world phase. Maybe right we we just launched our merch APP. We're seeing how that is and you know that Moore Chap is going is going to be more than a merch up right. Does that mean I'm GonNa take people off I've twitch in Youtube nut probably not I think that you know but we're we're we're exploring what those those you know. What the different different options are do you think of? The platform is marketing. Opportunity like instagram for many companies is a marketing channel extraordinarily effective marketing channel. But they want to own your relationship directly are these revenue forms or marketing platforms. Some Weird Combo. Both they're both and you know the difference being for us is our product. Product is social media right the actual things that people consume are the are the pro the underlying product. But they're also marketing so some of these things these are inextricably tied when when we put out a you know a instagram post. That's a photo that it can be two things or can would be multiple things. It can be something that is content that are fans WANNA consume. They love that content. I'll give you an example of something. Our fans loved and it wasn't marketing message but it was more than that we decided. We dropped a pair of shorts. We came up. We sold shorts for the first time and we did. It was an animated still end. It behaved from an engagement standpoint point like a piece of content bright so people are fans loved the content and it delivered the message that we're also selling this new product so it is as you know we use we use socials for you know it doesn't need to be one or the other in a perfect world it's all of the above. It's the same way that when we have brand deals for you know when we're promoting g fuel or Nissan Or Burger King. When we're doing it right quote unquote right or we're doing it? Best Practices that those content pieces should stand on their own on their own merits. That are fans will watch it. And the the brand message is sort of incidental to their experience and the it's done in an elegant enough way that I would watch that just because it's it's it's entertaining content and if you happen to be telling me a brand message call you're already doing organically stream on twitch than the VOD goes on Youtube video encourages. The twitch stream encourages see to beauty e. y. when we're on each part of the business supports the other side of the guy's GonNa kill me. I'm GonNa ask you this. I promise yet for it ever confronts on Yup that I'd ask you this question okay all right. It's the very beginning of your business. What is an exit for face clan look like is an IPO? or you're going to Google I I I don't think we're going to sell it to Google ad. I don't know that Amazon phase by YouTube. I actually I actually think that there are a lot of potential buyers for for somebody. Let somebody like a phase because we're in so many different things I think we certainly could IPO. I think that's that's that's not an unreasonable exit. I think that we could sell to a company that owns multiple sports franchises. I think we could sell to a media company. I think we could sell to an agency. We have assets assets that work for all of them. I had dinner last night with with friends. And one of the things we're talking about is we're talking about some of the some of the traditional sports teams and we're thinking you know these teams who are losing young audience right when talking about traditional sports and young males key demo. They're losing them. They're they're fleeing in droves. That wouldn't it. Be Interesting to tap an organization like ours to take over their entire content strategy and communicate to these fans in a way. That really really understands how they want to be communicated to so. I think there's a lot of different bomber. You bring us to the clippers zone phase the marketing machine. I thank you so much. Appreciate it all right. Thanks to lead shrink. CEO Face Glenn for coming on again just one of the most interesting conversations have had shown a long time. My thanks also to Julia for joining me. I would have been lost without her. She knows all about the stuff you can follow her her coverage on the verge you can obviously find face clan on every platform in the world. We'll be back later this week with the chatshow back on Tuesday with the interview show. We got some big ones coming up so keep an eye out for those can tweet needed me. I'm at reckless love. Your feedback season. This episode is sponsored by IBM Creator of the Code in Response Initiative dedicated to bringing open source solutions to address. Some of society's greatest challenges over one hundred and eighty thousand developers have participated in the initiative this year with solutions solutions ranging from an AI platform that takes care of firefighters health to an APP that uses natural language processing to prioritize. Emergency calls. find out out how you can get involved at IBM dot Biz Slash Code and response.

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TikTok, Ya Don't Stop - DTNS 3505

Daily Tech News Show

30:58 min | 1 year ago

TikTok, Ya Don't Stop - DTNS 3505

"Kathy j Greenwood has supported independent tech news directly for five years be like Kathy become a D S member at patriotair dot com slash DT. And s. This is the daily tech news for Monday, April eighth twenty nineteen in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt Antrim studio theline, I'm Sarah lane. And from a slightly overcast sky in LA county on the show's producers Roger Jane, very excited today to have Vlad several senior editor from the verge on the show Vlad thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. You are in the midst of testing a bunch of podcasting equipment, and we weren't happy to provide a little a little test bed for you today. Yes. This is fool me. Thank you. Appreciate I started the show five years ago knowing that this day would come for you. That was fantastic. We're also gonna talk to flat about his review last week about the wall way p thirty and a little bit about if we're missing out a lot especially here in the United States and Canada where we're not going to get it except through the grey market. But let's start with a few tech things, you should know. In an updated s one filing Pinterest said, it's priced between fifteen and seventeen dollars per share. It will offer seventy five million shares raising one point one two five to one point two two seven five billion dollars and billion the company between ten and eleven billion dollars. Overall interest was last valued at twelve point three billion dollars in twenty seventeen private funding rounds, Android. Police reports. Fourteen HTC apps have been published in the last three months some coming and going like the HTC mail app, which disappeared came back and appears to be gone again. No word from HTC on why the Eurropean data Protection Supervisor is investigating Microsoft's contracts with the EU institutions to see if they comply with the GDP are the investigation was started as a result of the Netherlands filing. Eight GDP are violations in office pro plus and office three sixty five and was concluded in February. Microsoft says it plans to modify how. It collects user data by April of twenty nineteen in order to come into compliance. All right. Let's talk a little bit more about the war between Netflixing apple. It's a word dependent on who you ask. Yeah. Netflix confirmed removed airplay support from its Iowa's app over the last week due to a technical limitation. That's what Netflix said, it was a spokesperson till the verge that this limitation was that the airpla- to doesn't have sufficient digital identifiers for third party devices, and as a result net flex cannot certify users are getting the best experience when casting to a device Vlad. I gotta throw this to you. I mean, what is this actually legitimate reason? Well, I mean, I'm not a technical person here. Well, this is kind of it just reminds me of the way to Google uses YouTube and away to his use it in the post when windows phone was thing. Google foot really hall to make sure there was no yeshiva a windows phone win Amazon's echo and sought getting displays Google for rehauled. Make sure it didn't have proper Yuji playback with the echo show. So it's just the way to these companies kind of, you know, the head these skirmishes between them Netflix makes a big deal out of the the partnerships that he has with you know, companies L G and Sony the TV makers, and what it recommends them and apple comes in the middle of that relationship would play. Yeah. And whatever happened between Netflixing that boo. You know, has displeased Netflix. This this intermediate that relationship with the TV. Anchors and therefore now Netflix is kind of flexing. What muscle has yet? Flicks is no longer part of Apple's payments system that flexes never been part of the television app on I o s or apple TV this there could be a legitimate technical reason, why not having the device ID's would mean that Netflix doesn't know which particularly tailored stream descend that flicks. Does a lot of optimization to make sure that they're streams look really good on whatever platform, but it does strike me as a situation where Netflix is trying to get as much leverage over apple as possible. I don't buy that. They're exactly afraid of apple getting into the streaming business so much as they just want to make sure that they keep control of their user interface and their customer data and they see apple reaching for that stuff. Yeah. I would agree. There's almost the argument to be made on Netflix part of like we just couldn't figure out how to give the customer the best user experiences. Like that's not what's happening with apple right now. That's just not what's happening. So okay. There's something else going on. Gotcha. Your, you know, your now competitors Sonos tonight Kia announced two speakers under the name symphony SC that will sell in IKEA's stores. One is a table lamp with the speaker built in that sells for one hundred seventy nine dollars. The other is a bookshelf speaker. That's in fact, the smallest speaker that Sonos has ever made that sells for ninety nine bucks. Also, the cheapest Sonos you can get both ship in August. You can control the speakers with the Sonos app. Just like you would for us because you bought directly from Sonos eventually Kia smartphone app is also going to integrate these speakers and their music controls along with smart bulbs. And smart blinds for my Kia. Interestingly you do not get a smart bulb in the table lamp, that's something you'd have to buy separately and add yourself, but I know Sarah you and I both use Sonos speakers. And you're excited about this ecosystem, what do you think about IKEA? I think this is great. I n the Sonos true. And true fan. I have been for years now. And when you have everything running through an app, and there are so many things that you can do with the Sonos system, and there are others. But my by my my ecosystem of speaker choice is Sonos. I I love it. The fact that I keep is able to sell these speakers for what what any Sonos fan would say, that's a real discount leads me to believe that the speakers are probably not as good in quality as as being almost as good as a Sonos one. However, I have two sons one's and they got rid of like floor-to-ceiling speakers because I like the Sonos one so much. So these are very good speakers anything that's like a little bit. You know, you back off from that is still going to be pretty good. I I love the idea of speaker. That's supposed to be also a bookshelf. I mean, hey, we live in a small. We live in a small apartment bookshelf. It's a speaker on a bookshelf that could fit in a bookshelf. No. But you can put things on top of it as if it is a show. Were shelf number. I think it is one that you can mountain war in then. Yes. Literally put things on top of it. Yeah. Okay. Do you guys are blew my mind now 'cause I. I thought it was like what if you plant? Water in the end to where they've got like a. Yeah, they've got like a decorative key piece of glass with sticks in it again. Which is great. I is great at the stuff. But my immediate reaction is like be careful electron IX don't get water on it think about what you put on the electron IX. But but, but yeah, I think especially with so many folks living in smaller spaces urban atmospheres, whatever the idea of having something that can be a speaker and a nice one, but also function as something else is something that we're gonna see more and very I q for sure. Yeah. Absolutely Microsoft released the first build of its edge browser that is built on chromium as with Google's chrome canary builds a vegetable come daily and developer builds will come weekly. Both bills are available now at Microsoft edge, insider dot com. Those bill. For windows, ten sixty four bit English language, and this is the build focused on fundamentals, but it does support signing into your Microsoft account, whereas your active directory and a new tab page, three customization options called focused, inspirational and informational even get extensions from the Microsoft store or the chrome web site. Yeah. This is this is if you're excited about the the chrome ability of edged this is your first chance to see it in action. I guess. And other good, Microsoft news. Microsoft confirmed that windows tens quick removal. Feature is the default of the full update. Meaning that you can pull out USB drives without having to adjust them first, and Microsoft releases windows, ten twenty nine hundred update to release preview ring testers you can do this for a while. But Microsoft never confirmed that that was okay. And now they're saying, yes, go ahead. Yep. Those USB drives out with the band. You know? Thank you is that the biggest mystery in tech, the host safely removed the thing. And like why I I always assumed because the few times I did it and got an error is because it was constantly trying to to read the drive to be able to read it quickly. And now technology has caught up operating systems and devices are cut up that you can read these drives quickly enough without having to maintain a constant connection. At least, that's my guess. Anyway, just for the most part even Meko s I would always get the error message. When a Yankee it out without going for the process doesn't do anything finished with my actions feedback. Daily tech news should come. If you ever actually lost data from tolling a drive at once. I think it's because sometimes even lost data once it will corrupt it the thumb drive. Has to do with closing out the file system on you know, like updating the table on it, and then you can eject like generally wouldn't be an issue could pull it out because it hasn't been anything. But. It's it's more of a kind of a housekeeping thing to make sure that, you know, the ledgers, you know, all their the table take the table. And so when you're not losing stuff rocket tens messaging app Vibert announced vibrator local number subscription service out of closed beta which lets you get a local phone number for four ninety nine a month that you can then give to non-vaible users that they can use to call or text you now vibe or subscribers can't send replies from that number either by voice or text. So that functionality is planned, but right now, you can only receive a vibrant local numbers available right now in the United States and Canada with more markets coming soon. I remember when Skype I had Skype in and not Skype out. It was it was the case for a short period of time. I think if I'm remembering that correctly. But I I guess if all you care about is being able to give a phone number to somebody to get you on vibe, our and you. Don't care about calling them because you have a phone. I I don't know if allowed Sarah either one of you can you guys before the show, Tom I asked you is this like feature that you would use. And you said, yeah, Skype. Actually, it is a feature that I used all the time, you know, sometimes people just don't have the application or are confused, or, you know, you need something to happen fast and giving somebody a phone number makes sense works. Well, doesn't really matter to them. What it looks like on your end? So when you think of it that way. Yeah. This is a great feature to have. I have never used anything like this. I don't know about you. While thing that might be more of an issue for you guys in the states because the one that was the FCC in January OSA came back for the Namm show, which is big auto show in LA. I had a US in called for a month and two weeks that I was then I was just bombarded with. Text messages spam chains and random robo in one of these other stuff, and I was like so this is why people care so much about robocalls and spam close this hasn't happened for me like over here near Lyon leading right now. Right. So I am honestly. Puzzle. I just have never used vibe. Oh, I don't vise anybody to use viable, the only people who use on my mother's closest friends, and I'm desperately trying to give them onto using telegram or something more modern of the more secure. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I can see the YouTube at the event if I want to be in touch with somebody, and I don't want them to necessarily have my phone number. If he's going to be like a one of interaction with somebody yet. It makes sense. I don't know that I mean paying a five dollar a month subscription. Probably doesn't make that much sense. Yeah. That's that's where it starts to hang up for B. Is you have to want? I know people in the Middle East effect. I have a friend in Saudi Arabia who is a big user vibe. And maybe this would be useful for him to give to grandparents or or something who do just don't use vibrant would be able to contact them that way, I don't know interested to hear more about that from people out there in the audience as well. I mean. I should bring up another point which is that. If you look at all the services that are floating about annulment Netflix. Spotify apple news, plus etc. Amazon prime it's real easy to stack up a massive Bill just of scripture seriously. Yeah. You gotta be careful. I've gotta make sure to cancel my news plus trial since before it is because I really don't need to be paying for that. Yeah. Let's talk about music shell we Monteiro hill, aka little gnaws X, which you may have heard of him. You may have not but kind of a big deal as of late has a hit song with old town road and credits tick talk with at least part of his success. He told time magazine, quote, I promoted the song as a mean for months until it caught onto talk and became way bigger. Little nauseous also has me mccown on Twitter and put some potentially funny lens and the song on purpose kind of drumming up interest. He even applauded the song to tick tock autos database, so people could use it for free in remixes in facts. Will NASDAQ said that he thought me he should have been painted talk. Since they promoted the song don't ever do that low ause. But you know, I get what he's saying turn into sixty five million streams on his Spotify page. Spotify does pay him, by the way. So there is money being made here the verges. Julia Alexander points. To absolute factors dissolve and Joe Giese slowdown seen in the dark, which also became trends after tapping into memes, like the microwave challenge this this fascinates me in two ways of one the fact that knowing memes running a Twitter Meema count became a source of song lyrics because you want to write a song that will be popular. And so funny lines are to put in that song because everybody else who's playing red dead redemption to think these are great as well. And then for those that just like to know what the hot thing is even if they're not using it tick tock is becoming a hitmaker it feels like. Well, it's so strange. I mean going back to the lyrics thing when you think about people saying, oh that song is just very formulaic that music producer, always does the same thing. But it's like, you know, a catchy thing that works with people. And like there's an earworm aspect to it. This is it's the same idea. But on such a grassroots network. Yeah. Like, you know, you know, the post millennial level, but I don't know leads don't know how much you keep up on the stuff. But it aggravating to me was the memes of moving where two false people. Like it is literally a fulltime job. You mentioned your Alexander not saying that that's her job is to keep up with stuff. So it's difficult to keep up. It's nice. When somebody just like an case of this song, just convinces all into one thing where it's is just a mean singularity event, you can just kinda start peeling away the layers of meanness in it because my understanding is in fact that the music original music for the song was sampled from someone else. But it was some Dutch kids who did the sampling in Breen IX it and then now's X license that from the Dutch kid, and then like a guy say he collected the lyrics from everywhere. And then there was the actual remix of the song with away Cyrus, right? Melt because they kicked him off the country charts and Billy Ray Cyrus is like well, that's not right. The song should be on the country charts. So he went in and said, I'll record some lines for you. That was that's pretty great too. And intense thing is that I do not know single person doesn't love that song. I include myself in that, it's an amazing song man to. Before right before the show, and he was like. Not sure it it. It goes with everyone else. Give it a. Hey. Was if you like baby shirk, you're gonna love this. Wow. Okay. I have my head around that one. In the meantime, folks, the takeaway here is that tick tock, obviously is is the hitmaker used to be my space, and then it was soundcloud. Now, it's talk. If you want to get all the guidelines each state about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines. All right. You reviewed the Weiwei p thirty and p thirty pro last week for the verge and wanted to share some of your insights with us today. Let's start off. I mean every review I've read including yours talks about how the photography the camera is the thing that differentiates this phone, right? Yes. I should take commission review going tomorrow. What you read last week was just me gushing. Uncontrollably. Above the camera. Like I had to write something specifically about the camera. Good. Okay. So this is where your impressions last week. And your full report is coming out tomorrow. Good point. Yes. I literally just finished it before coming here for the puck has fuel really accomplished today. All right. So give us some insight. What are we going to hear in this review tomorrow? Well, it's it's it's wild because well his whole bunch of things which are just best enclosed the first of all put zoom into the phone has a five up schools, which has a new periscope construction. It's really technical as as you can read the review tomorrow in can get into the details of it. But it's pretty good. It's the best camera. We've had in a phone ever. You can get a so-called hybrid zoom up to ten x which is almost Lewis is just a little shop nece, but I've taken photos at up to thirty two x and you can actually find this whole Twitter. Fred that I've done with samples from the camera. And they usable usable images thirty three times zoom, which is ridiculous. Even even for just a wreck. The camera that's unconventional unusual. Then you have the night performance which Google's nightside. Was revolutionary step who had lost you. And it was a couple of steps ahead of apple in something nobody else and now Kuala has beaten that by another couple of steps, it's just it's it's a chasm like I have been reviewing smartphones for years and years and usually the differences, especially in the camera from because companies are so competitive really slight then you can say, well, it's a matter of preference is matter of taste, whatever what apple Simpson now is literally the best low like Cameron road Cuapi, and it's not even close. And that is I mean, we talk a lot about an in the not gonna get into foldable 's right now, but we talked a lot about the form factor and vessels and differentiator. But the camera does tell me if you agree. The camera seems to be the place that companies are making significant innovations in differentiations between their phones. Yes. But hit his the funny thing if you are in the US as you guys, and you just look at what's on the store shelves, you will notice that. Because apple and Samsung, the two companies selling the most Muslims in the world a strangely almost complacent about the camera. I've really expected Samsung over the positive for years has made major differences major improvements in the saving summit something up for the galaxy Sen.. And it was kind of again incremental apple has been redesigning says the iphone X, which I refused to go the iphone ten he had a major fiscal resigned. There. It did some slights updates with the excess and again, nothing's really happening there. But if you look outside, especially from Chinese manufacturers improving, leaps and bounds so qualities purse co camera apple demonstrated prototype of the same technology. So they're going to have a smartphone with the same tech by June of this year. And knowing the up, oh, a one. Plus, basically says companies we could probably anticipate one plus to have something similar in terms of zoom. Animosity pretty shook because deny performance will hallways camera. Even I convert explain it, and it's so much in terms of AI proccessing in mathematics in algorithms, and does something that Chinese companies hadn't previously shown themselves to be strong at there was strong in hot wet. But now, they're also strong in processing, which is, you know, pretty daunting for American companies who seemed to be dragging their feet. Well, and that that's the question, by the way, I wanna point out to people and flood said this the periscope you can find out more about the technical aspects of it in his review, but it's not the same. As the pop if you're thinking, the the camera that pops up off the top like we've seen I think from vivo. That's that's not this. This is the internals. Right. That are that are working like a periscope. But the question is are the US. Phone companies being left behind or are they making the choice? That camera doesn't differentiate as much as it should and people will continue to buy their phones. Anyway. In other words, is is this going to eventually eat away at their at their sales. Or are they making the right call? Hey, you know, we could spend a lot of time investing on this. But it doesn't seem to move the needle. Well, it might not even be eventually it might have happened already. Because in this January you had both sensing an apple reporting slowing sales apple stopped reporting number of iphone sales, and you still proposing numbers when it's still being impressive, right? And your financial reports. In fact, Samson very recently reported a massive slash in prophets over over the company. I think I think those those things are starting to affect them already. And I think that will increase going forward. I think by the end of the year as I say, we'll have so many cameras with zoom capabilities in the room. Okay. Fair enough. Let's be those. The rumor would apple is the next IFA. We'll have a triple lens camera, and it will probably have some sort of similar zoom function is in it. But in general, you can make the argument that small differences in image quality might not make the difference. They might push the needle, right? But what while has done is really smart because it isn't just improving commun- camera performance is doing indiscreet ways. So it saying, you know, that photo which would have been black when you took over the iphone like a good example that while he gives is taking a photo of your baby at nights. Right. You can't use the flash because you wake it up. But you still want to be a creepy. Parents kids sleeping, right? So and in the show the sample with the iphone in its blackness and the showed one with the Samsung galaxy S ten and it's just an outline. And then would be pro it looks like the afternoon, and it super impressive. So that's one discreet feature. You you get nighttime photography. And then you get well, you know, that far away playing or. Votes or whatever else will such liberty that you wide-angle phone comedy do much with will have ten x zoom actually works. So these discreet features into the camera, and they really sell like I can give explanation to my aunt who is still using anoxia from nineteen ninety seven bright as she was like, okay. I get that. Yeah. She's still wouldn't use a smartphone. But you still understand will the compelling new features. Well, and you know, you can make a lot of discounts of Samsung's profits are going down as much because of a glut in sensors and ram as it is because of slowing mobile phone sales. You can say that the increase in worldwide market share from a lot of the Chinese companies has to do with the fact that they have less expensive in mid market phones that are taking some market share that way while while apple and Samsung, focus more on the top end, certainly an apples. Can you can say that you can say that? But then the contour argument is that the p thirty pro has outstripped preorder 's put a p twenty. Wpro by a large margin. American market, right? Exactly that preorder with a big chunk of the planet off. I mean odor. Really have is me tweeting about the camera, and and they already selling out. What else do you need? Well, apparently, that's the secret of the success that the carriers need to pay attention to, you know, get get flawed to be impressed by your by your phone megaphone. It helps things along. Well, certainly the secret to our success is everybody who participates in our sub read it. You can submit stories and vote on others at daily techniques, show dot ready dot com. If you hang out on Facebook, good group, Facebook dot com slash groups slash daily tech news show. Sakani shares a preview of his latest column on this is a good one passenger ID issues with transportation network bunnies. Hello. This is Connie, right. I'm with your private driver after he college student in South Carolina was murdered by a man pretending to be an Uber driver. A new safety campaign was launched charges. Everyone to ask what's my name before climbing in the backseat. I remember this is actually not the best advice. Find out why in the New York private jar Riber. Call them now up on tech new show dot com. Yes, Connie has like the three things that you should do to to try to make sure that that you're getting in the right car with the right driver, and all of that sort of thing. It's good advice and Sakani is a driver. That's why we have them write these columns. Check it out daily tech news, show dot com. Let's take a look at the mailbag. Let's do it. This one actually came in from Friday Robert had said based on a conversation. We were having about high bandwidth satellites promotions that are happening with various companies Robert says signed me up I live twenty five minutes, south of Chicago. Although on a clear day, I can see the Sears tower. So I guess he's pretty close and the best internet that I can get is three megabits per second DSL, which is usually more like one point five. I just found a wireless ISP that can cover me for ninety dollars. I assume he means per month for five megabits per second. Even on five G E. I only get four this isn't the boonies either yearly I call Comcast ac-. If they've gotten close to my house, some days that can see xfinity hotspot show up in settings when looking for WI fi we can't be that far away took four calls and three service tickets to finally get an answer. The rep said rate news, it says, we can offer you internet. Now, look like it would cost hold on nine thousand three hundred dollars to extend the wires on the telephone poles to you. I countered with one thousand dollars and signed me up today. They didn't bite richer Robert says in conclusion, yes, please government internet and let me bask. In the glory of the allusive beast called high speed internet than Wilton wrote in and said over the last several years, there's been a lot of things said about how much advertisers know about us. But I have the opposite problem my normal. Schedule takes me to Mexico about five months year takes about two or three months before the advertisements. Switch to Spanish the real issue is on my return. It takes about the same amount of time to switch back not using a VPN. So all they need to do is check my address. I wish they cared enough to check my location, low CFO Wilton. Indeed, also gross. Yes. To several for being with us today. Blad was so nice to have you let folks know where they can keep up with all of your work this visual a website on the incident and Twitter comes less of. And we've got your review of wa p thirty is coming out on the verge tomorrow. Is that right, right? And then nice video and everything and you've already got one post. I know about podcast or gear. I'm sure there's more to come. Yeah. I going to be addicted to book casting gay reasons to start a podcast reasons to quit a podcast reasons. What forecast might not be for you? It's a really fascinating area of. Investigation. Excellent. Excellent. Check it out folks, keep keep an eye on it. Twitter dot com slash Vlad Sav or the verge dot com. Our goal each month is to get one more patron then last month, and you could be that person. If you're willing to help us become a member and get an ad for our assess feed, special episodes for myself, and Sarah and Roger sign up right now at patriotair dot com slash DT. And s if you've got feedback questions comments or anything you want to get off your chest or Email addresses feedback. Daily tech new show dot com. We're also live Monday through Friday at four thirty PM eastern twenty thirty UT see find out more at daily technicial dot com slash live back tomorrow with Patrick Beija talk to you. Then. 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Fri. 12/11 - Disney+ Is About to Get a Bit More Expensive

Techmeme Ride Home

20:47 min | Last month

Fri. 12/11 - Disney+ Is About to Get a Bit More Expensive

"Welcome to the tech ride home for friday december. Eleventh twenty twenty. I'm brian mccullough today. Disney plus is about to get a bit more expensive. But you're also gonna get a lot more stuff to watch. Are we in a tech bubble at this point. X sixty four ambulation comes to windows apple whispers that it will likely be dropping qualcomm like dropped intel. And of course the weekend long reads suggestions. Here's what you missed today in the world of tech. How many times have i said this this year. I can't believe that covering disney is now part of the scope of covering tech news but here we are disney yesterday held a multi hour event for investors where they outlined their streaming strategy going forward. They unveiled for example star. The answer to hulu for international disney plus customers rolling out in some eu countries canada and new zealand on february twenty eight. They also introduced a new bundle in the us. Where you can now get disney plus espn plus and add free hulu for only eighteen dollars ninety nine cents a month but the bigger news was disney is also raising the cost of standalone disney. Plus by a dollar it will now be seven dollars. Ninety nine cents a month in the us. Starting in march the better. The company says to invest in new content. Offerings quoting julia alexander. And the verge. This is the first time that disney plus has received a price hike. It arrives just a couple of months. After netflix's announced it was increasing prices for subscribers in the united states including raising. Its most popular plan from thirteen to fourteen dollars a month. Although it seems early for disney plus hike the announcement comes amidst a flurry of other announcements shows and movies heading to disney plus the more that disney spends on content for it service the more revenue disney needs to invest when netflix's great peters chief operating officer and chief product officer was asked about price hikes. He said netflix's quote will occasionally go back and ask customers to pay a little bit more to keep that virtuous cycle of investment and value creation. Going and quote disney is now doing the same thing and quote. Did someone say a flurry of new content announcements. Yes here you go. This was all from yesterday. Quitting the new york times disney unveiled a blitz of new star wars projects including ten television shows. Two of which will be mandalorian spin offs another that will follow c. Three po and r two d two and a new theatrical film rogue squadron directed by patty jenkins of wonder woman fame. Miss jenkins will be first female filmmaker in the forty three year. History of the star wars movie franchise. At least fifteen disney branded. Movies are in the works for disney plus with new installments in the ice age night at the museum. Diary of a wimpy kid. Sister act and cheaper by the dozen franchises. On the way amy adams will star in a sequel to the two thousand seven musical enchanted. Well tom hanks will appear as a live action. pinocchio and multiple sports dramas fill out the slate pixar. It has a cluster of shows in route to disney plus including one that seeks to revive the cars movie and toy franchise marvel. It is chipping in at least ten series with ms marvel about a pakistani american superhero. As one national geographic. Another disney division also announced a flurry of disney plus shows including an endurance focused series starring chris hemsworth of sorefame and directed by the oscar winner. Darren aaron ski. We obviously didn't have time to show you everything mr for said at the presentations. Three and a half hour mark in all disney announced one hundred projects. Disney plus. Programming costs ran about two billion dollars this year. The service's annual content budget will be roughly eight and a half billion dollars in two thousand twenty four. The company said and quote but all investors really cared about yesterday was news on the subscription numbers. Right and there's good news on that front as well remember when disney plus launched thirteen months ago. They said that they hoped to have sixty to ninety million subscribers by twenty twenty four they announced yesterday. Eighty six point eight million disney plus subscribers. The company now forecast two hundred thirty two two hundred and sixty million subscribers. They hope to have on disney plus by twenty twenty four overall disney currently has one hundred and thirty seven point one million direct to consumer subscribers again eighty six point eight million disney plus thirty eight point eight million on hulu at eleven and a half million for espn plus the other big news. Yesterday was the airbnb pop. Airbnb finally opened trading at one hundred and forty six dollars a share and closed the day at one hundred forty four dollars a share up from its sixty eight dollar. Ipo price more than doubling its ipo valuation and achieving an eighty six and a half billion dollar market cap. Remember when uber hoped to go public at a one hundred billion dollar valuation. It looks like airbnb is more likely to hit that. Mark sooner than uber remember in the depths of the pandemic win. Airbnb is revenues all but evaporated some investors gave them a lifeline at an eighteen billion dollar valuation. That was mere months ago. Airbnb had only been valued at thirty one billion dollars before the pandemic so yeah. Investors seemed to really like to scoop up tech startup. ipo's at the moment quoting chessy on cnbc yesterday. quote chessy says he isn't too concerned about valuation quote. I don't think i'm gonna worry much more than an april and may when we saw our business dropped eighty percent in eight weeks in the middle of a pandemic. He said quote. Can i tell you this though. If you put your ear to the ground right now anywhere in silicon valley you'll hear literally every single startup that is even remotely close to even considering maybe even thinking about filing to go public all rushing to make that happen yesterday. Yes there probably is a bubble up at the moment. but here's the thing about bubbles. They're sort of like a game of musical chairs. You can make a ton of money and be sitting pretty as long as there are greater fools around to give you a seat before the music stops. Microsoft has released a preview of x sixty four emulation on windows for arm for windows insiders in the channel quoting the verge. Microsoft is finally releasing ecstasy formulation on windows for arm to testers today after announcing that the feature was coming back in september the feature will allow users to run sixty four bit apps that haven't yet been compiled for their arm powered devices. This means that if you just got one of the new surface pro xs and are willing to jump through some hoops and install a windows update long before it's ready for public release. Microsoft says you should be able to play games like rocket league or round. Productivity apps like autodesk sketchbook. Whether they'll run well is a different question windows on arm. Emulation has been pretty rough in the past but even running an app. Poor late is better than not being able to run at all. Just don't expect to see the same emulation performance in your arm. Mac brethren have been saying microsoft hasn't yet said when the ammunition will be coming to the main builds of windows but says that it quote looks forward to the feedback from our windows inside our community and quote. You know what makes this time of year truly wonderful. It's the music. And i'm getting my holiday. Music fix with amazon. I've actually been an amazon music users. Since i got my first echo. What was that six years ago. Now it literally is the best for doing simple things like asking alexa digest. Play some holiday music. No need to make playlists. No need to search albums. No need to do anything. Haven't tried amazon music before for yourself for a limited time you can get your first three months of amazon music unlimited for free. That's access to more than seventy million songs on demand and add free. Play the songs you want. When you want free for three months you could play mariah on repeat all day long all the way into two thousand twenty one. If that's your jam listen at home or wherever you are. Your holidays will be merrier with fun. Festive tunes remember for a limited time. New subscribers can get three months of amazon music. Unlimited four free go to amazon dot com slash ride home. That's amazon dot com slash. Ride home to get your first three months of amazon music. Free starts at seven dollars ninety nine cents per month. After that new subscribers only terms apply offer expires january eleventh. Twenty twenty one. Let me tell you more about our great friends at tiny. If you're the owner of an internet technology business tiny capital will give your business a good home. Tiny is interested in businesses. That have been around for three to five. Years are profitable to the tune of five hundred k. a year or even twenty million a year businesses. That have a high quality team in place. Tiny is open to owner's sticking round leaving cold turkey or transitioning over time. Tiny likes simple internet businesses. That have high margins don't require tons of people or complex technology and have a competitive advantage that protects them from competitors competitive advantages like say a dominant brand a large and loyal community a niche vertical or something similar. If you're concerned your business might not fit this. Bill feel free to send your business tiny. Anyway they'll take a look and let you know within a couple of days if they think it's a fit whether you're interested in selling your business sharing a tip or you just want to talk shop. Checkout tiny tiny capital dot com. And when you get in touch. Tell them brian sent you an mark. Gurman sources are telling him that. Apple's senior vice president of hardware tech johnny saruji told staff that apple has begun working on. Its own cellular modems for future devices to replace the qualcomm chips apple currently uses qualcomm dropped four point four percent on the news this morning quote this year. We kicked off the development of our first internal cellular modem which will enable another key strategic transition saruji said in a town hall meeting long term strategic investments like these are a critical part of enabling our products and making sure we have a rich pipeline of innovative technologies for our future and quote through g. said the one billion dollars acquisition of intel's modem business in two thousand nine hundred and helped apple build a team of hardware and software engineers to develop its own cellular modem. He said the modem is one of the few wireless chips the company designs including the w. series in the apple. Watch and the you. One wideband chip in the iphone for precise location information. The latest iphones with five g use parts from call calm before that apple use intel parts for a few years and then purchase that business unit from the chipmaker. Saruji did not say win. The cellular modem would be ready to ship in products but a twenty nine hundred patent agreement between apple and qualcomm includes a six year. Licensing packed call charges license. Fees to filmmakers based on wireless patents. It owns regardless of whether they use its chips or not end quote of course. What did you think apple was going to do when it bought intel modem unit but talk about being the only company that can do the harmony between hardware and software like no one else because they do both at this point what is the major hardware component of especially iphones. That is left. That apple still depends on a third party for maybe should by corning for the glass and then maybe get into battery tech and then basically bang doll. Stack is complete time for the weekend. Long reads suggestions. I up our friends. At andriessen horowitz cooked up a package of nine huge essays. Making the argument that well let me quote their argument directly until recently it was commonly accepted. That social was done. The market had been fully saturated. The thinking went dominated by the holy trinity. A facebook twitter and instagram turns out rumors of socials. Demise have been greatly exaggerated not only. Are we seeing the rise of innovative new social networks from the ear. Share of clubhouse to these seamless interactivity of cloud gaming but having a social component has become a powerful acquisition and retention tool for every consumer product across education. Shopping fitness food entertainment. And more in this series we reveal what the new social looks like the forces that are driving it and how to build it and quote we will by the way be talking this weekend to sixteen connie chan for the bonus episodes so maybe check out these essays ahead of time to get ahead of the curve. This week's bit of texas is our as technical piece. on the origins of the c programming language quote. There was little thought given to expanding the language that had been developed for two in the early nineteen sixties. It was common to think we're building a new computer so we need a new programming language. David hartley recalled in a two thousand seventeen. Podcast along with david wheeler and david baron. Hartley would be involved in the early development of this new computer programming language quote. The new operating system was inevitable according to hartley but a new programming language was not. We thought this was an opportunity to have fun with a new language. Which in hindsight was a damn stupid thing to do and quote next a couple of items that are newsy from just the news of the week back in twenty fifteen. Brian cherokee posted seven emails to medium emails. That he got back when airbnb was attempting to raise one hundred and fifty thousand dollars at a one and a half million dollar valuation for one hundred fifty thousand dollars you could about bought ten percent of airbnb. Don't know how much that would be diluted down at this point but you'd be looking at what. How many billions of dollars today so. I thought it would be fun to share. Brian's share of those rejection letters this week next given the facebook antitrust news. I thought this bloomberg businessweek piece about how facebook whatsapp as its future was quite interesting quote for facebook. They company that makes ninety nine percent of its revenue from advertising. What's at presents. A chance to diversify its business and protect itself from erosion and enthusiasm for its core social networking apps. Eventually facebook believes it can control the entire exchange between a brand and its customers starting with an ad on facebook or instagram and leading interaction or product sale on whatsapp messenger. Instagram and facebook are the storefront says. What's app chief. Operating officer matt at emma. What's app is the cash register and quote and the fallout from. Hbo max warner brothers. Movie slate. all that stuff continues a piece from the new york times makes the point that. At and t. Was sanguine about pissing off. Half of hollywood because at and t. doesn't really care about hollywood. There in an entirely different ballgame quote a strategy that strikes tours and cinema diehards as dysfunctional makes perfect sense to measures calar and stinky. At and t.'s. Primary focus is it's wireless service a seventy one billion dollar a year business. Warnermedia generates half of that more important. The wireless industry brings in significantly more money than the entertainment business and it does so in a much more. Efficient manner t.'s. Wireless division makes three times. The pre-tax profit brought in by warnermedia. Mr did not endear himself to the entertainment establishment during his time at hulu and now he seems to have aggravated the content creators. Who make hollywood run. But the company he works for has very little in common with other entertainment outfits for. At and t. h. b. o. Max isn't just a way to make money. But serves as an incentive to keep phone customers from defecting to its rivals every point zero one percent of customers who stay glued to. At and t. Are worth about a hundred million dollars to the company and quote variety takes a look at the secret sauce behind specifies new music friday playlist. It's become a major league powerful launching pad for new songs and artists and surprise. It's actively curated the old fashioned way by shuman tastes makers how quaint quote any weekly collection of one hundred. Relatively high profile new songs is going to land on a hit pretty often but as one of spotify playlist that is entirely curated by human beings. The platforms vaunted recommendation algorithm plays no direct role high placement is a collective cosign from the streaming giant team of editors the professional tastes makers who curate. It's hundreds of playlists. It's fully editorial as we describe it based on a mix of cultural significance and exposing people to new music says ned monaghan spotify's head of global hits. Yes that's an actual title who joined the company last december from interscope records and overseas new music friday. Today's top hits and other playlists with global hits lead becky bass. It's also one of a kind for spotify. It has music from so many different genres and sub genres and it's a very collaborative effort that includes genre editors and international markets. We highlight the song that will probably get the most streams at the top and work in a handful of songs into the top thirty that people might not have heard of which are often independent. It's important for us to serve both of those purposes and quote and finally talk about old fashioned or new fashion giving life to the old fashioned outside magazine takes a look at bird. The online platform that has become the go to place for birdwatching and by doing so has changed the process and etiquette of birding itself quote at its most basic level abor documents bird sightings a team at the cornell lab of ornithology created the platform in two thousand two and it became widely used by birders within a few years. As of two thousand twenty it has collected more than eight hundred and sixty million global bird observations from over five hundred ninety seven thousand registered ebbers by sheer numbers alone. Ebert is one of the world's largest citizen science it's now used to understand species distributions population trends migration pathways and even habitat use at least one hundred and twenty million. Observations are submitted per year. Many through the handy bird app. A kind of strava yelp pokemon go hybrid for birders. The app doesn't id birds for you. Cornell offers another app called merlin for that but instead provides an easy way to record and upload the birdseye spot to log sightings you. start a checklist. Similar to the way you'd start a run on a smartwatch and the app automatically pulls in your location via gps although ebert is primarily an observation tool and a scientific database the site still users to size each other up anyone can view rankings of the top ebbers different hot spots counties states and entire countries. You can even peruse a list of the top one hundred editor's in the world. These types of competitive lists have birth trends like the endless big years in which birds constantly compete to see who can spot the most species in a year. In turn such fads have spurred counter initiatives like the five mile radius challenge which encourages burgers to enjoy birds in local areas rather than seeking them out in far flung places. Local birding has soared during the covid nineteen pandemic as many work from home and explore their own backyards and quote. Maybe i'm imagining it. Or maybe it's just who. I follow on twitter but has anyone else noticed that birding has seemed to have gotten pretty popular lately among tech folks who live a block away from prospect park. Maybe i should do a non video game activity with the kids this weekend. If you do go out -verting this weekend. I've got a great podcast for you to listen to your tracking a weekend bonus episode chat with a sixteen connie chan about the future of social in video hint. It's a lot about education and shopping and a lot of other things ties in actually a lot of the threads we've been pulling on lately shop a fi tiktok solo per noor influence or businesses. Very very interesting stuff the for that tomorrow afternoon. Although of course. I guess half of birding is listening for the birds in order to locate them so maybe saved the podcast for your trek back home anyway. Talk to you on monday.

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Where there's 'Fyre,' there's smoke

The Frame

26:15 min | 2 years ago

Where there's 'Fyre,' there's smoke

"From the Mon broadcast center at KP C. See this is the frame, I'm John horn on today's show how YouTube is working to stop viewers from recreating dangerous pranks like setting themselves on fire or driving while blindfolded, then how they heavily hyped fire music festival became synonymous with fraud and failure, they created this amazing facade of this luxury festival, but what was beneath it was non existent. Didn't know how they would achieve these results and the museum of contemporary art in downtown Los Angeles explores the world of painter Manny Farber, all that EPA this short break. Welcome to the frame. I'm John horn every day. Hundreds of thousands of hours of new video content is uploaded on YouTube much of it as promotional say movie trailers a fair amount is silly like cat and dog tricks gone wrong. But there are also a lot of videos with dangerous content stunts challenges and pranks, and it's more people. Try to replicate what happens in those videos the risk for injury or worse is growing yesterday YouTube which is part of Google parent. Alphabet released new guidelines for how it will monitor and block such content. Julia Alexander is a tech and internet culture reporter for the verge. And when we spoke this morning, I asked what concerns you to most about these kinds of videos or really most concerned about and that they really try to work into their languages community guidelines of the last year or two is children that are involved. So you'll see actor creators kind of do. Really scary pranks with kids where they'll take a home invasion and just are just get my bra and he's having a north it's panic attack. But he's shaking if leaves a child clearly very scared or clearly they're not sure what's happening or if that's the expensive child. Those are the videos that YouTube is specifically trying to target and then they situations. The video will be removed and eight channel will receive a community guideline strike just to put that into perspective at the channel collects three community guideline strikes within the ninety day period. Their account will be terminated problem is that YouTube has thousands of new videos that are uploaded probably every minute of every day. So how can the company or viewers possibly police all of them? It isn't it possible? By the time that anything that is problematic is spotted or flag. It's too late. So YouTube has forgery and fifty hours of content uploaded. Every minute every day, which is insane. That is that's that's a lot of does. No, one can police that amount of does that's been an issue for you to quite some time users, of course, conflict video and they can report it for something that's disturbing or possibly dangerous and harmful. That's still not going to hit every single video. What you too I think is trying to specifically tackle is the prevention of trends and challenges of most dangerous pranks that happened on YouTube happen to have or challenge attached to it. Do you have things like the fire challenge vibes out? Degree alcohol in which people with fire. You have one point. There was a concern over something called the boiling water challenge. Do the hot water talents? Which didn't actually more than twenty thing. But the idea would have been hey, like, can you? Pour boiling water on yourself, which no-one tried because there is still I guess some commonsense left, but the idea is that if this became a trend or challenge on U2., they could kind of just look up the title and start going through and handing things out. How much of a factor is the age of some YouTube viewers there of an impressionable age. They may be adults. They may be teens. And also, even if they have to enter a birthday or an age Kantha just fake that. Of course, this has been a situation with the internet and snap, and we found it. So with Google means creating fake g mail that says you're eighteen I mean that gets you around you tubes. Age gate. It's not a perfect solution. It's nowhere near perfect solution. It all depends on the creator and their audience. So someone like Jake Paul who's. Very popular creator who was one of the people who posted himself driving blindfolded, Jake pause bird vox challenge. Video was ripped from YouTube showing the YouTube or walking into heavy traffic. He has said mobile on the record that he believes his audience between eight and sixteen years old that's incredibly young that's an audience of people who really do believe in everything he does. And so I think you to explicitly looks at creators like that that draw millions of views and are pretty well known, among advertisers. And this is to saying, listen, we really wanna make sure that they're not posting content because the idea based on my kind of expertise is that if top creators aren't getting ten million years for dangerous video than it might discourage those booking to kind of brought in their channels and gain more subscribers and gain more views from participating in similar stunt. It's easy to assume. They're a couple of motivations for YouTube announcement one is the ultra stick. Public safety concern. The other is the selfish concern about being sued the threat of litigation is there any indication that YouTube is worried about potential lawsuits, and what that could cost the company or are. They just doing this out of the goodness of their heart. Zerilli worried about losses. I think YouTube is worried about something that the creator culture, I two as an an ad Pakalicha at pockets, basically anytime something really severe happens on YouTube think about Logan Paul uploading the video finding a dead body in the forest, Japan, advertisers, flee, they tend to say, well, we don't trust the product right now, we don't trust the platform. And if I'm making I don't want to give you millions of dollars for my videos, so what you to does. And the would just spoken about this multiple times, they try to balance helping creators make me ensuring that their viewers are having a face and time on the platform, and then also ensuring that advertisers feel safe. So when you out and says, we don't want dangerous stunt, even though they bring in millions and millions of us. I think what they're doing is dressing all through these situations. They're saying, we only creator perpetuating. This is what YouTube is we want advertisers to feel safe that. If they put an ad on video. It's not gonna be someone doing something reckless. I'm and also they do want to ensure parents and their users that their kids aren't gonna watch dangerous content that they then might want to replicate the ideas. Hopefully, this will discourage creators from trying to pull up dangerous stunts in in search of of the next kind of big video. Julia Alexander is a tech internet culture reporter at the verge. Julia thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much. Coming up the fire music festival supposed to be a first class event to documentary show. How that promise turned into a criminal fiasco? Southern California the home of Hollywood dodgers Disneyland sometimes it feels like paradise. But any second now that could change a big earthquake is coming. This will happen. There's no likelihood of it not happening. We are not stopping when the earthquake hits our world will be shaken. So what can you do to prepare? I'm Jake Margolis host of KPCC's new podcast the big one your survival guide. Listen an apple podcasts. Welcome back to the frame. I'm your host John horn. If you know anything about the fire festival in twenty seventeen you know, that it was a complete disaster. And I really hope you didn't buy tickets creators Billy McFarland and rapper jaw rule sold. Fire as a luxury music festival with first class travel, supermodels galore and an all-star lineup of bands. But the reality as hundreds of fleas festival goers would find out when they arrived in the Bahamas couldn't have been further from McFarland sale. Sales pitch almost instantly. The fire fiasco was all over social media news and even late night TV. There was no showers. There's no bathrooms. There's no like running water, man. White people. Love camping surprise. But the fallout was not a joke. Billy McFarland was sentenced to six years in prison for defrauding investors and starting a separate ticket selling scam. While he was out on bail jaw role was named as a co defendant in separate lawsuits, some of which are still pending now there are two documentaries out this week about what happened the Netflix movie fire and who lose fire fraud. I'd recommend you watch. Both. If you're into that kind of thing, even if both come with caveats, the Hulu documentary includes an interview with McFarland for which he was paid to talk. The Netflix documentary was produced in partnership with two companies that promoted the festival I recently spoke with Chris Smith. He's the writer director of the Netflix documentary fire, and he explained the expectations that people had going to the fire festival. It sort of played into everything that you could want like it was a private jets going down to a private island. Great food. Great. You. You know access to celebrity actual experience. All these things that may seem big. They did a marketing video for the festival, which the pitch was basically, you could come down and have this luxurious experience for one of two different weekends. And these bans would be playing. It'd be this amazing getaway. I remember seeing that video myself. I'm wondering when you first heard about the festival was it before when the wheels started coming off. I heard about it. When the wheels started coming off. I started seeing the news stories pop up, and that was the first time it got on my radar. Dramas on social media glamorous, luxurious, Caribbean island getaway turned disaster quickly spiraling into chaos now the events co-founder is facing up to twenty years in prison. There is somebody who is central to the story and his name is Billy McFarland, and it seems like from the very start. He was shady in his business dealings. I think shady is a kind word, so what was Billy's background? And who is he as the fire festival is coming up. Billy grew up in short hills, New Jersey from what we can tell you dropped out of college. He was a serial entrepreneur he was doing small hustles or businesses while he was in middle school and high school, and then he had to companies before fire one was splaying, which he had sold exited on and the other one was magnesium which was a black card for millennials and a clubhouse that started in New York City, but exp-. Banded to other cities around the country when you look at some of his history, including the credit card. It looks like everything that he said he was doing was not actually what he was doing. And it got me thinking Bernie Madoff, obviously ran a Ponzi scheme. But at a certain point, Bernie Madoff was a real investment advisor. Is there any evidence that Billy McFarland was ever legitimate businessman, or was everything from the get-go hustle? I think he his intentions were real like, I I don't think that he wanted to people to fly down to an island in the Bahamas and have a half put together festival await them. I think his goal was to deliver what they had shown in the video. I think just the reality of that, you know of trying to live up to that promise ended up being much more than anyone on the internal team expected. One of the things that's amazing about your movie is the extraordinary amount of behind the scenes footage that you have leading up to the festival during the festival and in its aftermath and in a key sequence after every. Has really gone to hell how did you find that footage, and why did it exist? He no, I think we're in an era of self documentation documentation think you know, everyone has a camera in their pocket with their phone. So they're able to sort of document the world in ways that maybe we didn't have quite the same access before the iphone? So in terms of like, the festival breakdown a lot of that was covered by the attendees. But a lot of the other footage was just in different places. I directed commercial one camera crew is shooting with models had kind of a dedicated film crew, like shooting the dialogue between Billy and his people. There was no like this is the story. We wanna tell this is what we want to capture. There's just capture everything I think it's fair to say the lot of people were overwhelmed by Billy's charisma that he was a good talker. He made a lot of promises and yet a lot of people thought that maybe this was too good to be true. And yet they still went along. Along for the ride you talked to somebody who's a pilot named Keith terrifyingly. He's self taught he learned to fly on Microsoft flight simulator, and he's a friend of Billy's. And we're gonna play a clip where he starts to wonder very early on. If a logistics for the festival are doable. The really wanted to do. What I decide to wife, and we tried to sleep in a tent four night. And he was so terrible that tend to just going to be safe, and he's so loud. So many mosquitoes to do this out there conditioning. He's pretty brutal. It's just it's just not possible. So I. Recommend against the fence. Keith raised a lot of concerns about these things. And then I don't think he was asked to to long reported. This seems to be a problem is that people who raise issues are either ignored or that go of was that a pattern of behavior that almost encourage the yes-men to stick around. You know, it's hard to to make a blanket statement about everyone and everyone's experience, I think different people were brought in at different times the contractors that actually tried to pull the festival off. Most of them were brought in six to eight weeks before the festival was supposed to happen. So they were sort of faced with an impossible challenge. And I think a lot of them actually just sort of tried to make this become less of a disaster than it was already destined to be you talk with a lot of people who are in different ways victimized by Billy McFarland. I have to say one of the most heartbreaking stories is a woman named Marianne. Let's play a clip from mary-anne talking about what happened to her during the festival. Since we can directly would be just appear in food all day and all night, twenty four hours. I had to Lee pay all those people. I am here in stunts in my face everything. I've untrue about fifty thousand dollars in my saving that I could have had for any date. Just just wipe it out. I never looked back. Fire had this reputation on the island of being very high profile money was not a problem. And so I don't think there was a lot of reason to question it. You know, you looked at the caliber of talent that was associated in sort of. There was a lot of money being spent you know, they were fine down on private jets. So I think the people just assumed that when money would be tight or they wouldn't get paid that. It was just everyone was overwhelmed, and it was just a logistical thing. But of course, you know, the money would be there. So Marianne, you know, ended up in a situation where she started feeding the entire staff. I don't think that they had that figured out. And so she was providing meals for all the labors that we're actually building the festival site in. So in that process, you know, she ended up investing a lot of her own money to keep the operation moving forward. Because everything I was just so down to the wire that there was really no time. Into stop into an invoice or or anything like that. It was really just we just have to get through the festival, and then everyone will be made whole one of the things that strikes me about Billy McFarland. It's not just how easy lying came to him. But the scale of the line he ran this app was your specically away to book talent for concerts. And he claimed that there are thousands of offers representing tens of millions of dollars of fees. In fact, he had sixty bookings and they'd only made fifty seven thousand dollars. So it wasn't just that. He was a fabulous the scale of his lies where like Mount Everest in height weren't they? Yes. I mean, you know, the there became a point where I think, you know, this is speculation that the festival was the only way out in that he had to pull the festival off because that would become the asset that could potentially get them out of the hole that he was in. And so in a way, the intention could have been this is the only way that everyone doesn't lose everything and. I don't know because we didn't talk to Billy. I don't know when I tried to put myself in his shoes, I would have to imagine that that was part of the mindset did you try to talk to Billy. And what did he say? In response. You know, we were in talks with Billy. We were supposed to film him. I think on two different occasions. But in the end, it came down to the fact that Billie wanted to get paid, and we didn't feel comfortable with him benefiting after so many people were hurt based on his actions. There are so many ways to look at the lessons of this story. And what this film is ultimately about how would you describe the broader idea, I think one aspect really plays into this idea of perception Bruce reality, you know, they created this amazing facade of this luxury festival, but what was beneath it, you know, was non existent. You know, they hadn't plan the festival they didn't know how they would achieve these results. So I think you know, that there's a lot of parallels in terms of the way that people may represent themselves online and. And you sort of see the physical manifestation of that idea and fire. Chris Smith is the writer and director of fire. It's on Netflix and in theaters on January eighteenth, Chris thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks. Coming up a museum exhibit about the influential artist and critic, Manny Farber. Being in motion. Love potion. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn, the museum of contemporary art, currently has an eclectic group show that features the work of the influential painter and film critic, Manny, Farber and other modern artists who represent his aesthetic. Mark hatefully reports on both sides of the artist and critic and how they intersected Manny Farber didn't like many movies, but his reviews field a love for all film, including movies. Most credits avoided his paintings are sprawling tabletop works combining collage and still lifes. Helen moles worth curated one day at a time at I. I think for Manny the way he looked at film the way he painted his paintings the way he wrote his essays for him more all of apiece. They were all struggle, and they all Quat required, a very close attention to detail detail in his work is personal going on a biographical. He paints a great deal of the quotidian the daily life of Farber and his wife Patricia like floral arrangements fruit and produce from the family garden, snapshots, personal notes and dishes prepared food. He often sets his works at odd angles or has you covered directly over a table filled with the stuff of everyday life. Looking at one of his big paintings at Moca and oil from nineteen Eighty-four. I can only begin to list all the mundane objects in it half pint blueberries a plate of selfish, some crackers terrain full of who knows what a loaf of fresh baked bread a candle and candlestick. This is the. Same kind of detail fiber. Most admires in film hadn't done that. Devos may lose all faith in himself. I'll gives them a Fini wasn't bonded. Here's Farber himself describing Carey grant in his girl Friday in the documentary on detour with manufacturer is he carry grand doing something overwhelms me to know about what character is he playing doesn't overwhelm me at all it always important for me to be able to get to describing a scene physically to gestures and grimaces and the costumes and the people he's talking to how far away they are hot can is not that strikes me as the most important element Farber died in its need is in two thousand eight at the age of eighty one. He is best known for his central as view explained in a famous essay, titled white elephant art versus termite art, which is also the controlling theme of the mocha exhibit. Art is about the details termite. Art is about the overlooked termite. Art is about the process of an artist falling down her rabbit hole and not looking up to see where she's going or where she spend on the other hand white elephant art is about making a big splash. So fiber vaunts directors like Howard hawks and John Ford over Antonioni Truffaut and even Billy wilder. Nobody's born in nineteen seventeen in the tiny border town of Douglas, Arizona Farber moved as a young man to New York where he worked as a carpenter while he developed his painting in nineteen forty two showing the new Republic as film critic and later wrote for time and even the low end men's magazine cavalier fiber kept at it for twenty eight years, and film, critic and scholar. Jonathan Rosenbaum says took it very seriously. He considered film criticism an art form, and I do too. I don't think there many of us among film critic stow, who do I think usually film critics are considered parasites, you know, like that. They're totally dependent on the works of art. And the, and you know, and it's like they're just sort of these appendages. But I think that he actually saw criticism as a higher calling than that. And something that was very exploratory in the same way. That painting was exploratory and in his movie reviews Farber wrote for himself. The funny thing about is is he writes for the kind of sarcasm that you often can't tell whether he likes the movie doesn't like the movie. And that's what's interesting about him. Like, I think of all major critics the only one I can think of who is far as I know was never ever used in an ad for the Moga show, most INA mixes, the work of other modern artist. She feels for influenced by or otherwise represented Farber aesthetic, it's filled with objects that I love that. I have kind of carried around with me and my head the choices of work in the show or like deeply personal. This is me saying to the viewer like come over here. Look, this this really cool like Catherine Opie photos of the inside of Elizabeth Tana's home full color, photos, still lifes from Wolfgang tillman's, and some very impressive Representative painting by farmer's wife and co worker Patricia Patterson, my personal favorite is a massive darach nineteen twenties. Tractor recast in bright aluminum. By Charles Ray is just a broken down tractor. But raise saying it deserves attention. I think this work is really conceptual and really difficult. It is also really relatable and really acceptable. And in that regard, it makes it a lot like people has five or puts it in his essay termite art feels its way with no sign that the artist has any object in mind other than eating away the immediate boundaries of his. At the press preview for one day at a time. I asked Helen moles worth five Manny, fiber. Why? Now, I am not a fan of the current art world. This may be the understatement of the year. Most worth was fired as mocha's chief curator much apparently for conflicting mocha trustees who prefer blue chip art. I find it bloated and concerned with things that are not interesting to me like money and popularity and Manny didn't give about popularity and he didn't give about money and he painted still life paintings of flowers cut from his wife's garden one day at a time. Manny Farber and termite art is at Moca on grand avenue through March eleventh for the frame, I'm markedly. And on a related note to Zam contemporary art is closing its base at the Pacific design center in West Hollywood mocha has presented shows there for more than twenty years. And that's the show for today. Thanks for joining us. I'm John horn. We'll see a back here tomorrow.

YouTube Manny Farber Billy McFarland Billy John horn Netflix Google museum of contemporary art Julia Alexander Bahamas Arizona Farber reporter Chris Smith fraud Helen moles Moca Los Angeles Bernie Madoff Farber
079: The Death of Cable Telelvision

The Streaming Wars

30:16 min | 2 months ago

079: The Death of Cable Telelvision

"You're listening to the stream was the podcast that discusses all of the latest happenings regarding your favorite streaming services. Find out which is winning the war this time around over one. Welcome to the way of the streaming yards. Dustin twenty is with me and we're here not to discuss news because we're releasing this actually recording this episode at a different point in time for when you're listening to this but we are talking about specifically a certain topic. I've been wanting to talk about for a little bit of time. And i know some of your like wait a it covid streaming the effects on streaming and i'd say no It's not that we will get to that but specifically it has to do with a much larger topic topic. That's unfortunately never be able really take place in the confines of a normal news episode. Just because of how much time is allotted for some discussions just based off of how much news we have. We tweak the conversation that we're going to have today Twenty myself room talking about the basically the death of cable television and the rise of streaming and basically they go hand in hand but in some ways i think a of people misunderstand exactly how it works and what is a house of these companies work and i can say for my own personal experience dealing with this and things if you listen back to if you've been listening to the podcast since the very beginning there's been things that i myself was ignorant about. Didn't understand when it came to how these media companies actually work in where they get a lot of their money and we're going to talk about that we're talking about the effects that's cable television has had on the media companies and why so many of them are now switching over to streaming and that is their focus and what that means for the future of these media companies. Is it going to be as profitable as it is with the cable companies or is it basically. You know there's no there's no turning back to media companies are going to be losing money no matter what we're gonna talk about a bunch of this stuff so there are three articles of. You're looking at a show notes. They are in order of the w- the ones we are going to discuss. And the order. How we're going to discuss them. Specifically there's three. There's one from the verge there's one from cnbc and there's one from medium dot com. We're going to be talking about these. All of these articles came out roughly about the same time and a lot of them worrying. Basically a reaction to the recent quarter results from the cable companies and how cable television is continuously declining across the board with multiple companies. There's they're losing on average between a quarter of a million to almost a million subscribers per quarter at this point for cable television so while the episode technaglass titled the death of cable television. Obviously we are streaming. So that's what we're the rise of streaming comes in and how it plays into it so the first order we're going to talk about is an article that was over at the verge. Julia alexander wrote this article which we've talked about. She's popped up multiple times because she covers a lot of the world of streaming and that that all the everything that goes into streaming over at the verge so she had an article that was called streaming was part of the future. Now it's the only future for major. Entertainment conglomerates undergo big restructures. Now the past couple of weeks we've talked about. Numerous structures have been happening in not even just the last couple of weeks in the last couple of months. There has been a massive shift at a lot of the media companies toward streaming. And while some of that is obviously on purpose because of what's been going on with the the global environment right now part of that has to do with the fact that just as things play out even put aside the global pandemic that that we're currently in the midst of there is still a situation where outside of that before the pandemic there was still this decline when it came to cable television and the four companies. Obviously that she was referring to are media. Etf slash at and t. You've got disney you've got viacom. Cbs got comcast slash nbc universal and these four companies they have been restructuring and reorganising their executive ranks. And things like that. They've been laying off a lot of people as we are actually recording. This war media just laid off another round of people supposedly as their last round outside of the international layoffs in her coming in the future but they just went through another round of layoffs. We've had restructuring at every single company. That i just listed because there is a there is this desire to make sure that streaming works and it needs to be not not only does have to work gain subscribers be successful but it also at the same time. They have to figure out the best way to do what they do as efficiently as possible. We'll talk about that a little bit more but out of the the companies. What would you say your takeaway from the reorganization of these companies. Is i mean it's it's twenty twenty. It just makes sense. You have a lot of these. Companies who basically their playbook was one of of yesteryear. Lot of big conglomerates. Lot of subsidiaries is traditional cable tv model in the just had to move with the times yes. At and t. has a lot of data. all these companies have debt and they're trying to work their way around that there's just interesting financial issues. A go on their times or investor thinking about that but the point. I think of a lot of this restructure is just. It's it's defective these companies. Recognize that netflix's is netflix's king of televisions. It's it's the king of content. Now is the king of where people spend their attention been their time in just other streaming services. Well but i feel flakes names on prime where the two big ones am have disney plus. It's also in the conversation of the big streaming services that are out there in the these cable companies can't ignore their success that caning nor how much people want to move to that type of interaction. It just makes more sense so they have to either. You have to adapt or just gonna die company in civil you see a lot of these these companies adopting so you have a lot of restructuring dropping dead way in terms of subsidiaries that into physical where you wanna move to as as a business you have of restructuring to focus the company to a certain direction. Think warnermedia is one of the better examples of how. At&t how they're focusing everything on like hbo hbo streaming. That's the future. That's where the heading to new. Ucla moves with the warner. Max just wasn't necessary given hbo max the other subsidiaries it's like how does this fit in with. Hbo max in the long term plans there. We've seen this with viacom. Cbs of how they realized that the current strategy that they're on is not necessarily good in. They've seen success with pluto. Tv in cvs alexis like hey. This is kind of where we need to go. Disney one could argue that disney foresaw. The future i mean they launched disney plus november of twenty nineteen and then yes there were covid nineteen was starting to become a thing china and then all of a sudden in march like they just really hit the united states which is a really huge customer base for disney. It's pretty much been the only bright spot on disney's ledger and all these quarterly earnings. Just because the park service has been down merchandise has been down disney as a company. The only bright spot in is disney plus. So this is where these these organizations are moving to and it just. It just makes sense that they have to adapt. Or they're just gonna to. I think they also realized point that people really bring up a lot. I feel consumers. Have a very bad relationship with these cable. Companies either from different reasons of poor customer service or the fact that you have to pay a lot of money to get only a few channels that you want like. I just like sports in. Maybe you know something else. You have to pay a whole lot of money on channels. you don't even use. My parents spent a good amount of money on cable and they only use like three channels so but the streaming services. It's easy to get on board. It's easy to get customer service in. You know exactly what you can get a feel like. That's important as well when people talk about a near seeing these other traditional companies moving toward idea to to really focus on the customer and it might not be because they're always altruistic and they wanna focus on the customer there just seeing that that's where they have to go that's where they have to move to feel like as a consumer. It's great because we get a little bit more choice given the platform. We're not stuck to know where we live right. Now i have charter in. I can't change that as cable broadband. But i'm able to get you know whatever streaming service i want this on the internet that choice you also have the streaming yet also these companies realizing that people don't just watch content on the televisions anymore. They watched on their ipads computers. Their phones so there's a lot of different modalities of where you can watch. And they have to adapt to that you know. There's a litany of reasons but short answer. Is they have to do this. And if not then they're just going to the wayside. Yes and that's exactly. That's exactly now the next article that we're going to talk about a cnbc and this. This article is entitled media. Executives are finally accepting the decline of cable tv as they plot a new path forward obviously very similar headline to what what the verge article said over. This article is more focused on the media. Companies in where. They are currently getting a lot of their money so to break it down in the most simplistic terms about eight years ago. In two thousand twelve there was about seventy five billion dollars. that was coming from the cable. Companies was transitioning into the media companies. That number now is has dropped down to fifty billion dollars. The number of subscribers has drastically dropped over the past eight years because more and more people are cutting the court and it's expected at least some analysts expect that by two thousand twenty five. That number is going to then drop in half again. Only twenty five billion dollars that could be coming from a cable companies and transition over to the actual media companies. The thing is the media companies. A lot of where they get their money is from the cable companies and And i think cable companies but it's really the cable subscribers. Obviously the cable companies just the middleman there the wave for the media company to offer a product to a customer and they're basically selling the product to the customer. Now the other part of it is that there is a lot of ad money when it comes to cable television. There is a ton of money that these media companies make off of ad revenue. That has nothing to do with the cable company. So not only. Are they making the money from the cable company. Selling the selling the channel packages to the consumer but they are also then making advertising revenue off of the channels perfect example. And if you. Everybody always complains about the bundles. I mean you just talking about a little bit ago about how you know you so many channels i personally the before i cut the cord i had thousand channels or something or something very close to that on my cable package. I probably at any given time only used about twenty five of those channels. I think use all those other channels however if you were somebody out there who would want to watch something on a specific channel airing to search around and find something you're gonna end up watching. Whatever it is that you're looking for that is most likely supported by an ad revenue. You know adver- advertising that is then going back to the media company so the media company is making sure that they not only have their high profile channels. A perfect example. Espn very popular for people. Who want to watch sports but disney cells. Espn alongside other channels. That they own. They sell along with free form which used abc family they sell alongside disney exterior disney junior the disney channel. Those aren't necessarily channels. Disney channel may be might be an exception but most of those channels are going to not be extremely sought after. But they're going to sell them along with. Espn espn is the one that you know. Everybody wants to be able to watch even with. Espn you have all the different espn channels. Like espn espn. Two spin news. In point is is that even with. Espn you get a bunch of channels that you wouldn't necessarily you know us. You know if you're the most college if you're in the most avid college football fan You might would need. Espn two but for the most part to generalize large group of sports fans. Espn will will do the job for you. And so like as a sports person. I would prefer just to pay for. Espn or just a narrow package of espn. I don't need to get all five to ten extra channels that they have in in. I just bring up because you can even break down. This whole exports category of disney. And you get a bunch of extra channels won't wouldn't necessarily want not to mention all the channels that you just enumerated that some people would want but that are tacked on as well and you have that price increase when you only wanna watch one channel exactly and the thing is it's not as if the content necessarily costs a bunch of money to make honestly there's so many channels out there that make very very low budget content specifically just because they're looking for content to basically philip time and in some cases you've got some channels that still run infomercials at late at night because they can make money off of that to the thing is when it comes to not very popular cable channels. The exists basically just as a way to sell advertising space for the companies. That's that's why they're there if they didn't if they weren't profitable to degree they would. They would get rid of it or they would rebrand. The channel does something else and they would do something different because they've done that before. Obviously they've rebranded complete channels into other things. ultimately it comes down to as consumers. We have gotten very smart with where our money goes. As more and more people continue to cut the cord we realized there is no reason for us to continuously. Pay a large sum of money for something that we're not using a lot and in some ways streaming was the way to kind of bring that to light when netflix started to have more original content and started to have more content in general you could consume people realize wait. Why would i need to keep cable. I don't have you know for the people who don't watch a lot of television. To begin with you know having the ability to watch something but only having a certain selection of content. Most people would you who don't have a lot of ten watch television. Don't have any problem. Just getting rid of cable insane saying okay. i'm just gonna watch netflix. I've known plenty of people over the past ten years. Who have gotten rid of cable and have had nothing but netflix or use nothing but maybe youtube or something like that. Not youtube tv but just youtube to consume content. Because that's where they go where the options are. netflix costs. money. Most of the time you have to watch ads on youtube unless you subscribe to youtube premium if your washing ads. It's still there. It's one of the other reasons. Why we're seeing this resurgence of ad-supported content with to be and pluto and filo zumo because those those services there are plenty of people who have no problem watching advertisements. They just don't want to pay for the the the content that's those channels so if you have to watch ads it's not as big of a deal. It's the same reason why the ad supported versions tend to be more popular than the premium versions when it comes the subscription services that actually offer them specifically because people don't have problem giving basically a little bit of their time and being forced to watch ads to save some money every single month. It's just how people naturally are but ultimately it comes down to the media companies. They're losing a lot of money. When it comes to the cable the cable the pay cable television situation that is that is declining and to tie this back into streaming the ideas that they need to gradually shift over the streaming because as pay cable television continues to decline. They have to have an uptick somewhere else to get them more money otherwise they will basically lose out so the media companies out there that exists that are not basically looking at streaming and saying. This is what we need to do. This is the direction we need to go. They're the ones that are probably most likely in denial of the fact. That all cable television's just fine and we don't need to you know we're completely okay with it and those are probably the media companies. They're probably not going to last into the next couple of decades because it's just not likely that they're going to last. I honestly think that some of them might be gone by the end of the this this upcoming decade of thirty so ultimately it comes down to you have to adapt and as we pointed out before a lot of the big media companies. They are learning how to adapt. They are learning how to do things more efficiently and as we see that. We're going to start seeing the bigger push when it comes to. We've talked about on re- very recent episodes Tnt their one of their three main focuses is not cable television. Not universe directtv. At and atm tv now there are three core things. They're focusing on his hbo. Max which is they're streaming offering when you look at viacom cbs. They're committed to making sure that when they launch paramount plus it successful so much so that. They've said that they have no problem. Closing down some of the niche streaming services that they already have out there because they want the focus to be on their larger service to garner more subscribers to that service. There is a huge push disney. Obviously they four went in a massive amount of licensing money that they were making when they were licensing. Their films stars and net flakes and the variety of other places that they were they were licensing. Some of their content movies in some of their television shows day forego went. They forego that money so that they could have that content on their service and while week here and complain all the time about how. There's not enough. Rachel content on disney plus or. There's not enough that it really draws in people that library of content is by itself enough to keep a lot of people engaged that service because we have yet to see any sort of downtick of subscribers because of the library that they have because it is obviously geared towards an audience children that will specifically watch the same content over and over again. Because it's you know because they can't you know if i was a kid. I remember having vhs tapes. I consistently watched over and over again because they were what i had. You know. that's just watched what you had. And now it's obviously a much larger library of content to be able to watch but that's how it is so the idea. Is that these stream covid. They're shifting their shifting because they need to however and this brings us to our last article. The medium article has another little bit. Is the one specific thing that is happening when you switch over to streaming from the the. The money that comes in from the cable carriage deals and like that is profit. There's a lot a lot more profit when it comes to the cable deals because you've not only got the steady stream of money coming. In from the cable companies. Every single month was subscribers. But you also have the steady influx of advertising money every single quarter to because there's always going to be that advertising money that's coming in from the content that you're putting on your networks when you look at streaming. Yes obviously some services have an ad supported version and some have sure that they had that part of their service from the very beginning like peacock how we look at cbs all access. They have an ad supported version but paramount. Plus we know we'll have an ad supported version. Hbo max is working on it. And then you've got other companies out there that you know ed support is not the way they want to go because they're looking at it from a different perspective when they when it comes to the priority of their companies the prophet however is nowhere near the same. So it's you've really got to grow your service to the point where you have way more subscribers than what you were previously getting from the cable companies within the amount of subscribers that were potentially subscribing to the networks that you have and that is going to take a lot and that is a massive scale. I mean disney is is obviously one of the largest. Obviously they've only been around for a year at this point but they have grown by far way better than i think. Any analyst anticipated them to grow in just a year and the thing is even they are are still hurting when it comes to the amount of money coming in because they're still seeing the steady Steady drop off from cable television the money that they would be beginning from that and while they have this massive amount of subscribers they still have to have even more to kind of offset that cost. Obviously they're not getting the same amount of revenue as you would with tv. And in a different way. I think that that's actually good. I think it resets the market a bit a felt like television ads for getting a like that market could be just reset so i feel extremely is kind of a good breath of fresh air there but however there is one good thing about a streaming service versus the old way of doing this cable in. It's because of the reach me. Unless there's like the great firewall with china you can pretty much access any streaming service across the world. I mean even with the bp gusto watch certain content from different regions and in. That's fine that's the nice part is because you taunt limit yourself to a certain local region or global read or state or country whatever You are united states. You can reach so many different people with the same streaming service. You don't have to set up all these like subsidiaries with like hbo you you have one management group one message the one management group one vision all your proverbial eggs in one basket. You're growing worldwide affiliate. That's the silver lining here is that companies can expand the reach in. Get more people now if you do that. That's going to incur. Obviously more infrastructure costs. But even more so content costs he. Netflix's just churning through cash to get you know content in different reasons at different regions. Not just like in the western countries who really focusing on latin america really focusing on africa. You seen them invest a whole in india and they're still trying to get into china and they've tried to develop more. You know china friendly things japan's as a huge market we've definitely seen them invest in so like they're really taking up this idea of where we were not doing it. The old way with cable we have this whole entire world that can watch content and they're try make pieces of content for them but it is. It is very expensive to do this. Description based model is very interesting way to do business in my opinion is because you're consistently getting cash pretty pretty regularly. Most people sign up in the might try for years something and they might go but usually if you have automatic withdrawal. Most people don't cancel things don't even use. I mean how many gym memberships are started in january and people. Don't use them after. Like the second month end you see gyms are actually pretty lucrative lucrative business to have just because he if you pay for the gym equipment up front then you just get people paying over months. The don't really use it. It's pretty profitable business. And so in in taking that an allergy and applying it for streaming you consistent revenue all the time and i feel like that's also good. You're not you're not beholden to advertisers. You're not having to make your product to certain different thing. Your ratings are different because you're not trying you're not trying to maximize profit for a certain demographic at a certain time in trying to get certain ad buys their your your your freedom but once again you have this whole idea of spending a lot of money on content so you know there. There are trade offs and i think that for some of these businesses. It's going to be hard to change. Their mindset is can be hard to see okay. We have in the past with this product line been. Here's a profit margin Amount and we're pretty happy with that. Were pretty impressed in. We're just running whatever we want to on these channels in. Were still getting free. Cash from that is going to be a very different business model for these executives as they move forward into cd of just streaming and that's going to really put some pressure onto teams ensure host shareholders to understand what the new reality is. It's not as things once where it's where it's going to move to so i think that's kind of my my thoughts on the matter. I think it's just it's going to be really hard to recoup the tv money came and the now one could say all right. They're not gonna get the same tv ad revenue. That's that's fair and that's great. Why digital ads going to recoup their costs google and facebook or two best companies to actually do ads on the internet. Well and yes. There are ads that are gonna be mimicking tv ads. But it's still going to be on a digital platform is not going to be through cable. It seems google and facebook are the only two companies to really understand how mobile works. How how the internet works how people interact with it how to use it youtube for some reason. it's still barely turns a profit and they have ads pretty much every minute. It's you know it's a little bit ridiculous as they have and they're barely trying to figure out the situation and it's just cool you know so it's gonna be hard for these companies to yes mckee. We'd off tv ad revenue anymore. We were just gonna replace tv ad revenue with whatever ads running on these streaming services. But it's not a one to one correlation. You can't replicate the same success there and to get people to actually interact with the ads It's gonna be hard to think about in. It's gonna take some time because it's it's the internet. Of course you should be able to just click on the lincoln. Go where you need to go. But that's how does that work on. Tv you've seen some places that have qr codes ends very surprising how many people don't use qr codes. They've been around for a while. The whole point is it's not a direct correlation between adds that might be on pluto. Tv or whatever to whatever. Ads are on cbs. My local changes my local channels number eight. I the ads are just totally different. And it's gonna be hard for these companies to figure out this new area. The business of ads on television has been. Obviously it's been evolving but it's pretty much the same business plan as it was like. What in the fifties you know You pretty much work out the kinks Goes you have experienced leadership to understand how the whole business works because they have so much domain knowledge over the years. But we're were going i. It is different. It's going to be new in expectation. Seen a change in your and a have leadership that might not be able to figure out things first but they'll get there so it's a new age and it's gonna be good for consumers. I agree and i think that if anything it will actually benefit the consumers probably more than the companies themselves. The companies will ultimately have to figure out ways of slimming down. Which is what they've already started to do. One of the things that i saw suggestion out there. In one of the articles at one of these three articles it specifically talked about how some of the networks the smaller networks if they plan on lasting through this massive shift from pay-tv to streaming. They're going to have to kind of consolidate some of them because some of them are gonna last if they're not part of a larger media company. That is going to have a streaming option. They're going to have a very hard time. Basically having their content available through the other through the end of the other options out there because they could started their own streaming service which is one of the reasons why then so interested in seeing what ends up happening with discovery because discovery. Has you know pretty significant ratings. When it comes to the content that they produce and they have the they have a good basis of content that they can offer people however because they're so late to the game when it comes to streaming will people actually go on these. The same people were still using cable who will frequently watch something on one of the discovery networks casually but not but not find the need to actually subscribe to it by itself and i think that's what i'm most interested with the discovery wipe so frustrated with the fact that we're never really learning any details is because we don't know what's happening with it but discovery by themselves is a very decent sized media company that could in some ways do something worthwhile if if they would just get to the point of actually having something materialize i want. I want to think of the three writers of these articles. Julie alexander at the verge out sherman over at cnbc and doug shapiro over at medium for these articles their great great stuff if you have some time definitely take a look at them. Some of them are very very long. And you're going to read them for a little bit of time led to their well worth the read. If you wanna learn more about the specific topic that we've been talking about here so with all of that being said you can follow us on twitter. And join our dischord check out all the articles that we talk about on the normal podcast. You can follow us on instagram. Follies announcements related to new episodes of the podcast releasing. You can send us an email at the streaming wars. Gl dot com with any questions. Comments concerns feedback or topics. You like us to discuss future episodes. You can also leave us feedback wherever you're listening to this podcast. That is always greatly appreciated as well as readings. Wherever you're listening to that is also appreciated. We are taking next week off for those of us who are in the united states. We hope that you guys have a great thanksgiving. If a twenty myself we will see you guys next time. Thanks for listening to the stream and was check us out on twitter and instagram also. Consider supporting us on. 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disney Espn Netflix espn viacom hbo Dustin twenty youtube Julia alexander nbc universal cnbc warnermedia seventy five billion dollars Cbs fifty billion dollars twenty five billion dollars eight years Hbo filo zumo china
081: HBO Max Shockwave and Discovery+

The Streaming Wars

1:11:00 hr | Last month

081: HBO Max Shockwave and Discovery+

"You're listening to the stream was the podcast that discusses all of the latest happenings regarding your favorite streaming services. Find out which is winning the war this time around latest episode of the streaming amores aim. Dustin tony is with me and we here to discuss everything. From december second through december eighth in boy. Was there some really big news. That is going to be worse discussion. And i. i'm sure some of you who have not been paying attention to the news since last week are probably thinking. Oh it's probably discovery plus while we do have to talk about discovery plus but not actually the big news the big news however it has to do with hbo. Max we're going to get into that but there's a bunch of other news. We're going to quickly breezed through real quick related some of other services before we get into those larger discussion pieces specifically regarding guarding discovery. Plus and hbo max. So i stuff with netflix. there's a workplace comedy series called god's favorite idiot that has gotten series order. There's a sci-fi thriller film called stowaway that has landed at netflix. Netflix's ordered the limited series. The unlikely murder. They're also looking to reboot the young adult series heartbreak high. And there's a thriller feature film called end of the road. That is also coming to netflix. Jumping over prime video amazon has landed the first run of the final season of vikings. Technically it's the final part of the final season. it's the second of episodes. It's the second part so it's the last. Ten episodes of the viking series was previously been on history but amazon has landed the first run of those final episodes who there is the watch party feature. We've which we've talked about in. The past is now available to all who subscribers not just certain ones out of beta the true crime series candy which i know we talked about before which is coming from elizabeth mosques production company as well as universal and that is going to be heading over to hulu as well paramount plus slash. Cbs all access. The has been announced that cbs alexis. Which i should say. It hasn't really been announced because this was actually announced back in january during cbs cbs. All access was announced to be coming to xfinity x. one devices as well as the x one platform in general so you're talking about the flex devices and things like that that announced back in january. But now it's actually officially happening. Cbs alexis can start rolling out and just as a kind of a follow up for that. Hbo max is also going to be landing unexpended soon to. That's not a huge news. But hbo has had an app on the x one. The extremely x one devices but has not switched over to hbo. Max and when you click on you just get the hbo content but that deal has also been in the works and it looks like that is going to be happening soon. Because the hbo tile has now changed hbo. Max and it means that the each platform should be coming to extremely devices as well. Right jumping over apple. Tv plus acapulco has gotten a series ordered which is a bilingual comedy series. Apple has given a straight to series order for gutsy women which is coming from. Hillary and chelsea clinton apple has also ordered the docu series focusing on surfing champs disney plus. Now this is. I guess the first discussion that we should have collided ren article talking about whether or not hulu should he folded into disney. Plus now for those of you who don't keep up with the news on a regular basis like analysts and things like that. There was a trailer that released it was. It was kind of like leaked trailer about two weeks ago. Right before thanksgiving about disney plus eighteen and was basically hypothesis either. I say hypothesizing but it looked like it could be a real trailer and the idea was that disney plus offering content for eighteen and up within their actual platform basically into implementing parental controls allowing some content specific movies like logan and dead pool and things like that little offering those those that type of content on disney plus for adults. Now if you have been a long time listener of the podcast. You know that. Tony and i have had a massive problem with disney plus just not offering enough content for adults. In general kulu has a wide variety of content. One of the that constantly gets brought up with hulu is that they have the streaming rights to a lot of abc sitcoms or series of very popular when it comes to have grown ish and blackish. They have modern family. Those don't really fit within the confines of disney plus and they're over at hulu which means those very popular series that lasted very long period of time in some cases are still going though serious can be brought over to disney plus and actually have a home because they are geared towards adults however the way disney plus currently stands. It's not the case now. The article that is in we're here to talk about from collider is actually talking about whether or not there could be some truth to the idea of who being absorbed into disney plus and i want to say two quick things before it opened up the for tony which is basically. There's there's a couple issues with rolling hulu into disney. Plus the first issue is that currently comcast still owns a segment of of hulu. They are promised to be bought out by disney but currently comcast owns that so they can't for at least the time being they cannot just completely absorb hulu number one number two who may have content that is is exclusive to hulu but the issue is that bringing over disney plus creates new licensing deals. Because it's not the exact same situation certain shows that go to hulu immediately after the air those are specifically set in certain licensing rights that if by having them on disney plus would open up the deals to basically. We have to be adjusted. So there's a couple of issues with that now. As far as the disney plus eighteen thing goes honestly. I think that is entirely possible. I think it's likely to happen at some point because one of the biggest complaints like i said is the fact that they just don't have enough content to draw in adults adults are the ones who are paying for the service. Unless you have kids you're not going to continue to pay for the service custer. There is a certain level of content. That is being sued. You know that is being offered at the service. I know that this is a big wish by people. But it's just not can happen anytime soon and i'm definitely one who wants more adult content on there. I mean i. I definitely enjoy effects on hulu. All the contents just been a lot of fun. There's a bunch of other shows on who that i like a lot. Frankly i liked the user experience allow more than a do unto plus but overall this is not going to happen anytime soon and people keep wishing it. It makes a lot of sense in my opinion. But it's not gonna happen. Just do to. Because there's there's a lot of like no behind the scenes. There's there's a lot of complex licensing agreements that are between turn companies in hulu and renegotiating that to work with disney disney. My own them. But there's a difference between being with hulu and then being with disney but then you have to do something with a live tv side. How is that gonna work out. There's a lot of complex issues that happen with these deals. That feel like are not talked about enough brought up alive. I it just it it makes hall this stuff just just really hard to figure out so there's a lot of corporate stuff that needs to happen. Lawyers need involved so at the end of the day. This isn't going to happen anytime soon once again. I think it's a great idea. But i think that this type of talk just counties to die maybe bringing back up an ear something but right now is just. It's not even close. I will say that. The as far as the live tv option who i live on because right now it does. It does have the most live tv subscribers compared to any other company. And i don't see that completely disappearing. You're absolutely right. There's a lot of aspects of the businesses when it comes to these streaming services that don't get brought up there. When when articles like this than are hypothesizing specific. Take on something. They're only focusing on what they need to focus on Prove whatever they're trying to prove they're not focusing on necessarily the other aspects of the business live tv huge thing for hulu because it is the number one company here in the united states. That offers live tv. You can't just get rid of that. And i don't see that of getting absorbed into disney plus because that's not the scene it's a different type of business who has obviously original content and things like that and that aspect of just being a standalone streaming service offers content. That could something could happen to that content. You know but. I don't think that the content the live tv option is going to disappear. It just doesn't make any sense because they are the leader at least right now here in the united states other the other thing to point out is just because there's the potential of the eighteen plus thing to happen and honestly they're only days away from as we're recording this only two days away from disney having their investor summit and they're going to be talking all about streaming it's basically all about streaming and they're going to be talking about probably plans for the future for hulu if they don't ignore it at all. Just talk about star. They're going to be talking about disney plus there's probably going to be a slew of strict trailers and announcements related disney plus some of the content. That's coming to the series. There's also bound to be talk about. Espn plus and the other aspects of the stream business when it comes to to disney however when it comes to eighteen plus thing. I think that's something that could easily implemented and over time start to take some of that content off of hulu if they don't have the international plans for who is the originally did before and their gold now as it was talked about during their quarterly earnings. A couple couple of quarters ago. Is that their focus is going to be on launching star as the option for international and. That's actually going to be the international option when it comes to kind of like the who international option is using the star brand that makes who even less enticing and the other part of it which was brought up. I believe i saw it on twitter by julia alexander. From the verge. She said the the the other catches that disney will still owes comcast. It's about nine billion dollars for the remaining aspect of what's left of their chunk of hulu and hulu as it stands right now is not worth nine billion dollars so maybe as we have already predicted stars away to get away from the hulu brand and hulu just will basically cease to exist as time progresses however that leaves the tv option which would have to be rebranded in some way and the content could obviously migrate to disney. Plus but i think. I wish we were today's into the future because we could be talking about what exactly the plans are for hulu and potentially the the potential plans for hulu based off of this investor senate. Because i'm sure it's gonna come at some point during that destin one more thing about Who's like tv option. Yes could potentially live on as its own service but you know how much is that. Is that even profitable. No is the live tv side being subsidized by you know who lose thirty million ish subscribers in the pot of money. It's absolutely right in into potential. You couldn't even split that business up because it might even be profitable. I'm just due to you know how. Tv rights are so that's a yes as much as like that is def- defining feature of who live tv in it. Is you know the leader in terms of just having more customers and also being. I think the well the most light you could potentially even split that business up so no even in this potential you know best case scenario i it could potentially just fail on its own. So that's another thing that i think people think about as well as we go is but you could maybe keep hulu as a brand with the live tv option with three million or four million subscribers the margins money worth it to even keep that as a business and the other thing too just just just piggybacking off of what you just said is that if hulu doesn't have the steady stream of originals or steady stream of content that their licensing for their library. Does that make kulu stand out. When there's so many different live tv options out there when you compare it to the next largest live tv service out there which would be youtube. You has content. That's free but nowhere near the amount of content that hulu offers so the right now. There's a better deal if you subscribe to. Who live tv because you get those. You get a larger on-demand library also get a larger amount of content and offers original content as who has significant. you know they. They're at least at least a couple of different originals every single month no matter what they are so the thing is youtube doesn't have that they're not offering content on top of your life tv options. They're offering stuff on demand from those. Tv options that you are subscribing to similar to the way cable television works who offer something just a little bit more than that so that also comes into play as well all right so next up. Qube crabby has officially shutdown. That happened on december. First we all knew that was happening but has faded to black as they say all right. Hbo max it feel max has landed the streaming rights for the comedy series the middle which previously aired on. Abc here in the united states and has over two hundred episodes sets a pretty big gift cards thrown has inked a first look deal with hbo and hbo. Max is feel max's. developing a detective. Comedy from the astronomy club. Creators astronomy club previously aired on net flicks. Each max will begin. Offering forte support with each four k ultra. Hd dolby vision. Atmos has also going to be released along with one woman. Nine hundred eighty four. Which means originally when hbo max launched they did not have four k offerings even though some of their the hbo content was available in four k content or four k. The four k. option. Unfortunately they said at the time that there was something they were going to roll out in time but they did not have timetable. Obviously the big announcement of wonder woman eighty four coming to the service is big enough where they're gonna wanted in the best quality that they possibly can so we're going to start seeing other content get that four k resolution and get the sound options that hbo maxwell now offer and that is immediately because of the release of one nine hundred eighty four on christmas day. This is a huge move. This is definitely been one of the biggest complaints of those who i'm scripted. Show max is that they're paying premium top dollar for the service and yes they get a lot of content but it's still at ten eighty p and they're able to get at four k and then with you know the the dopey special format stuff like that. So this is this is huge. This is a great way to kick off. Yeah it's it's christmas but essentially Twenty twenty one You know with this and there other things we're gonna talk about you know. Releasing wonder woman getting four k. We know thing. We talked about last episode episode. That they're doing a few more international releases slowly so This is the beginning of some really great news for each bill. Max or there is a pandemic heist called lockdown heading to hbo. Max there's a drama series called women's studies currently in development. Hvl max's announced that they are ending their free trial and that is obviously a head of one thousand nine hundred four. I'm pretty sure we talked about this last episode about how this was very likely to happen. Disney plus to the exact same thing before the release of hamilton which was a highly anticipated. Release on the service. They got rid of their weeks before the release of hamilton and now. Hbo max has done the exact same thing the other big news that we're gonna talk a little bit more at length minute here is at one or brothers has announced they were releasing their entire twenty twenty one film slate to each max and theaters on the exact same day so similar to the way one room. Nineteen eighty-four is being released where we'll be available in theaters on christmas day where it is able and allowed to be in theaters. It will also be available each max. All of the films which is sixteen other films will also release on hbo maximal tenuously in twenty twenty one. Now there's a lot of big films. The fourth matrix film is one of them. There's qods delivers kong which we talked on the last episode. The suicide squad film. Which is the next dc. Film is is coming out next year as well. There's a number of other films. One dune is a huge movie. That is is coming out as well a lot of movies that are coming out in two thousand twenty one and say we're going to talk more about this in a second. The other news right after this was that there was an article that popped up on deadline. Where casey boys was talking about the international rollout of hbo. Max and while we haven't heard a lot we knew that there's movement on the international side of things because it was announced that they had put people in charge at each real max to focus on a european roll out of the service and we also know that latin america is another big focus for them to get into. While that's all happening it turns out casey boies who's in charge of the content. That actually comes in. The service said that they are looking to create local international originals from the dc library head of the international launch. So basically as they start to roll out internationally they're gonna start looking at dc dc's library of characters thinking which characters can we use from. These different international locales to create international shows. That maybe you know in a different language. Because that's what they're looking for. And while they've had success with shows within specific regions of europe releasing and they actually then release here in in the us as well they are looking at obviously amping up the amount of of that they have as they move forward so they clearly have a timetable at least internally as to when they are planning on rolling out in europe and latin america and that would be why they're already looking at what content they can adapt into originals for those local areas. All right next stop. There was new data that came up by app topa stating that. Hbo max is growing very quickly. Tony go hand. Put your disclaimer on it. Because i think it's important to see that upfront. Before i go into details. Essentially essentially it's really important to keep in context. Hbo max yes. It is growing for us You know if you look at the net rate it is good app copious says but it squirt orders of magnitude bigger than cbs alexis. Disney plus even flex. But if you think about it. Netflix's has dustin me from wrong. It's got like over a hundred and sixty million global subscribers. The disney plus has around seventy five million Those are just really rough numbers from a member of the show. Cbs alexis has about what twenty five something like that. So the point is yeah. Mit growing fast. If you look at how many total subscribers. Hbo max as our activation having to think about it is substantially less than the rest. So yes people might have charts and graphs that show. Yes increases graphs. Going up k look so much higher than the other one look at you know long term value ill you look at everything else in scope. It's like oh okay each crewmax growing because they have no users again they're getting can versus these established players. They're you know net positive. Positives not really gonna change that much. You know until there's a big international expansion or that. There's some huge scandal. That's going to happen. It's you know that's the only way to really boost things or a decrease in subscribers. So you know i. It's worth probably see the same amount of growth disney for when discovery plus finally launches. You know it's going to have this huge rate of adoption but that doesn't really show that there's that many subscribers until we actually see that money i mean even qube link for the first week or two at a huge explosion probably had similar numbers to what ichijo max's right now but you know. They barely had what three million total like ping subscribers or something like that. It's like high point so everything. Everything in context yes in contact is truly important and one of the other things to point out his app. Topiary uses a lot of their daddies based off of the amount of download. The mobile apps actually get so they're they're looking at it from the perspective of how many people are downloading these apps. Now the people who now when they show the graphs on their website they show netflixing the compare it with disney plus and basically what. They're trying to point out. Is that if you. Max has been growing at a faster rate than disney plus or netflix. But that isn't really the case. It's just that the app itself has been downloaded more than over the given period of time since hbo. Max launched compared to disney plus or netflix. Which i guess. If you're looking at it from a different perspective you can sit there and say well net flicks the already had all the you know. Most of the people. They had already had the app. So of course. Why would they be downloading the app. Disney plus launched last november. Not in me. When each max launch over the one bit of information that i did want to pull out of this that i think is good. Information is over the past month. Their engagement levels have been way way higher. They've been significantly higher than in the past since they've basically launched where in the month of october the amount of engagement that they had for the service was about thirty six percent higher than it had been prior which means there was some sort of content on. Hbo max that they were offering that drew people in were you. You know that we're having people use the app more frequently and that's been a lot of a lot of that has been attributed to the fact that the doing came out at the end of october. That's one of their. You know the big shows and a lot of people has been that a lot of people have been talking about getting. Been getting a lot of buzz that has now carried over into november where we had the release of the flight attendant a big. Hbo max original. That's launched the weekend of thanksgiving and had the first three episodes and continues to get more and more engagement with every episode that they're releasing so that's huge numbers now the next bit of news. What actually released today. There was a summit that was held and john stinky was there and talked about how. Hbo max has jumped to over. Twelve million activation. Since the last time they talked about activation which was they basically talked about at the end of q. Three which was at the beginning of october. And those those numbers that they discussed at the beginning of october. They're sitting about eight point. Four and other sitting like about twelve point six million activation so in just two months. They have increased over fifty percent their number of activation 's from you know the possibility of thirty million that they've had in the past so the point is they've been having some success over the past two months and a lot of that obviously has to do with a couple of things. The undoing was very buzzy. Got a lot of people talking about and had great numbers when it came to just people watching the series and discussing it and things like that. That was october into november. Get the announcement that one roman nineteen eighty-four is coming on christmas day. That's gonna obviously boost people checking out the service and starting to realize. Maybe i should activate my each max account if i have access to it then you get the rollout of the flight attendant. Great numbers there and now here. We are a week after the announcement that the film slave for twenty twenty one is also going to be coming and of course more people are thinking while maybe i really should go activate my hbo max account. So it's just. It's doing what they want. Which is drawing people into the service to make sure that they get those activation so right. Let's continue on. And we'll come back like i said to the hbo backs film. Slate peacock have nothing discovery. Plus discovery plus is officially launching on january. Fourth is going to be available at four ninety nine with ads or six ninety nine without ads. It's going to include over fifty five thousand hours or fifty five thousand episodes of television content from across all of the discovery family of networks that includes hgtv tlc discovery animal planet. own ide- food network probably forgetting at least a couple because they have a ton of brands over one thousand hours of original content is planned within the first year of its launch. The magnolia content which magnolia is the network that the next network. That's discoveries launching that will have a preview where they will have a number of different types of content from that network actually premiering on discovery plus as the network has been delayed launch finally discoveries busily aiming for tens of millions of subscribers the c o in my opinion who. I've obviously complained about multiple times in the past has said that this is really a great way to compete with disney because they have the potential complete with disney and they have absolutely they have you know they have tons of content. The basis behind that argument is that they own their content library. They have a huge library of content as they've produced thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of content over the years at for the variety of their different networks. And they own it. They can go and they don't. They don't license content out to other places so there's a lot of places that that content is not available as you have this. There are plenty of the international roll out slowly but it will be only launching in the united states on january fourth. But basically i mean twenty. What do you think discovery plus was worth the wait no but to be. Fair are probably the target ardent audience of the content. There is really appear to appeal to me. But i know there's a sizable demographic people who would enjoy and that's great for them. I mean scraper discovery that they have you know demographic to target. That's you know reasonably huge in good for them. It's about time they finally. I really service in you know. It's january fourth. Let's great for them to ever. I am a grain and a lot of them are basically. They're they're happy. They're excited about discovery plus there. There's a positive attitude towards it but there's just no heavy skepticism about it. Anything it's healthy just due to. There's a lot of hype about the surface but there's not a lot of transparency of okay. What are the financial projections subscriber. Numbers what are they gonna reach if you remember as we talked about. Hbo matt's launching. It's like okay like one year aiming for you know x amount of subscribers. Here's a five year plan here. Is you know. I think for disney right. It's going to be like in five years it's going to be a profitable. It's gonna you know. Pull a profit. Obviously they blown out their projections but With the prophet thing is going wrong so there is not much information terms of discovery plus the executives they released in making some analysts kind of worried. Because then it's on the analysts to really figure out this and you know analysts during the list you know. They're they're not bad people that they're really good but disney discovery plus knows the content. They know who they're aiming for Even better than i do so it is a little worrisome that there's just more hype and not enough documentation an explanation of how they're gonna reach their goals kind of there for a healthy skepticism. Just because i personally won't get the service 'cause it's not interesting to me. I think that there is a big demographic for it. There's a potential to where it could be a pretty decent streaming service. Do not see it. You know going into disney plus net flicks type levels even like hulu type levels. Probably in the twenty million range. Just because of how. Many people like the epa content. So that's kind of my thoughts. Just happy but skeptical in my basis. I have a just a slightly little bit of a different take. I think that like you said it could be as big as about twenty million. I think that's where that they would probably be sitting. As far as international goes if they went when they eventually get to the point where they start rolling out internationally there might be a larger number two to get higher. I don't i am not familiar enough with how discovery does international markets to know whether or not it actually work. I know here in the united states. They do well. they're cable channels. Do extremely well and people are watching them and they get a lot of talk about some of their shows so like. There's no question that it can get to the level of successes like something like cbs. Elax says the or even maybe peacock. We're gonna get as big as that. But i just don't see getting bigger than that. I will say their price point is spot on. I really liked their price point. I still am not gonna subscribe to the myself. But i think that a four ninety nine price tag with ads and a six thousand nine price tag without ads is a perfect price. Point to draw people in now whether or not they raise the price in a couple of years. That's obviously most likely going to happen. But i will say that. That price point is a really really good price point. The one thing that. I guess i have a problem with about this whole announcement. Is that one. It took as long as i did for them. Basically to say. Here's this service. It's coming in one month which is nice and it's coming out right away because i mean if we had to wait any longer it'd be ridiculous given how long what's already been weeded on. However right. yeah. It's it's been the bible on for like a year now. So let's let's use the word right away. Yeah they're phrase really here. Yeah exactly and the thing is it's coming out and the only thing i don't understand is why is it not rolling out internationally and other markets right away because there isn't a reason to really hold back the they already have the as they have already pointed out they own their content so like obviously deals in place with the cable companies and things that already market their stuff so they don't lose money on that stuff it does feel like they have talked about this for such a long period of time and other than having. Well we're going to have over a thousand hours of originals over the first year okay. That's great but you also create enormous amount of content. Like how many hours. In comparison to the amount of hours they produce for all of their networks. Is that percentage. Because i don't really think it's that high that if you look at the you know their whole basis of what they do at discovery is out of reality television. It's there's a variety of it but it's but it's all reality like you've got nature documentaries. They're all reality. You've got crazy stuff on. Tlc like Ninety day fiance's and things like that that get a lot of talk online give each. Et where it's a lot of home. Improvement shows or things where people are building and remodeling things. they can produce content. One of the reasons are so successful. That company is because the content they create is not very expensive create. So saying that you're going to have over a thousand dollars. The number seems great but how many hours in comparison to the number of hours you're creating for your network. The other thing that they announced the current seasons of shows airing will not be available until they are completely one hundred percent done airing on the normal cable channels which i think is a downfall too because if someone was looking subscribed to discovery plus as an alternative for having a subscribe to cable in order to see some of these shows like ninety day fiance's gets a lot of talk online. You're not gonna be able to because you won't be able to watch it until after the service. The show actually ends its season on broadcast or in this case cable television. So that's my only. I've got my own set of qualms about the announcement. But i think the price point is great. I think they will be successful in getting some some subscribers but the idea of tens of millions i think is going to be ten plus a ten and maybe max out around twenty million here in the united states all right so moving right along outside of discovery plus jumping over a niche streaming service. I'm tv has ordered a troop True crime docu called moment of truth. Disney has considered moving major sports rights over the espn plus. The i included this specifically. Because obviously that that's no brainer over time as espn plus gets bigger. That's where they're they're drawing more money in from that and they can warrant the basically the fall off of espn on the cable side of things because it it's become profitable enough as a digital service by itself. It makes sense to do that. However the one thing i did including here is that they said that they were also considering sign off their stake in a e e which is They they own a fifty percent stake. Which a lot of people don't know about and then they also free form which previously. They got years ago when they bought fox family which was a family channel and then they turned it into abc family. And then it morphed into free form but there's been talk about being a perfect match to be bought by discovery and discovery has the money to buy that so i just included because i think it was interesting then of course will bolster discovery pluses online offerings with the addition of the any content. And things like that Finally warnermedia has been i in the creation of tumour streaming services. Just real quick. One of the services is cnn. Which i am opposed to just. Because i think it's splintering the already option of putting cnn content in some formats on hbo maximum. Getting people to use that option on. Hbo max the other option is a tbs tnt service specifically offering content for free. That would normally would be able to see on the east. Tbs tnt but having an offered with ads instead so an ad supported service again. I don't know why you would do this. I think it would make way more sense to offer the same content on. Hbo max once they roll out an ad version. I don't see the tbs tnt thing getting off the ground it just doesn't it just doesn't feel like it's worth the time or the the the resources to do that when it comes to the cnn. I think that it makes sense to do something with cnn. But i think it needs to be implemented needs fuel max and then that can in some way. Maybe be a thing that they can make. Hbo macs more appealing and and raise the price up. I do not like this. You know direction by warnermedia. There's no mutation okay someone get about you know seeing. I feel like that would be a really interesting. You know like if you wanted to think about how. Hbo maxine a disney channel concept of of stuff where you have this whole bucket of projects of star wars marvel Permanent like a d. c. channel on. Hbo maxed type thing going on. That would be kind of interesting with like cnn. You can have this whole new section in the documentary series. Cnn does like news of a block on the pre interesting. but i just don't see a streaming service own see people hang or streaming service on news. i mean goodness sakes. People don't really buy newspapers anymore. People barely go to new sides to reduce you know they go to social media so just because of all that i don't see a news streaming service going to be any good. I find that it would spin off teen. Tbs stuff unless there's like weird contract stuff that you know. I don't know about it just doesn't make sense to spend that content off on its own. You can that in What's nice about teen. Tbs is that they have established relationships in the sports world like hosting euboea games ended in march madness. You could potentially bring those relationships over on each crewmax. Nikkei stream those games on there so just overall y you know we've seen this pattern for immediate for months now like okay. Like they're thinking about you. Know getting rid of control consolidating services they just at warner max and they folded in each mac. So you've seen months of them. You know consolidating the resources and making it more streamlined and efficient than now they want to create two more streaming services. At logic there you ask the question of who would pay for news and a funny story fox actually has a new streaming service. It's called fox nation. It's only five ninety nine per month. Go the monthly route. I mean realistically actually is expensive when you compare it to the other streaming services and what they offer but they have a ton of original content the thing that everybody always brings up when they talk about fox nation and how it works and whether or not it's successful is that the one catch of course is that they're not offering. The content at is actually on fox. News they're offering content per similar as well as a ton of other original shows. But it's not the same content that is on fox news because of those cable deals that those cable licence the carriage deals that are in place. See see my dad would probably like that streaming service. But he he watches of the opinion pieces. And i feel like that's what makes me fox news specials at their their hosts. is very interesting personalities. And that's what draws a lot of people to fox. It's not always just the news as the pieces. And if you're not able to get you know took a call center sean. Hannity if if you like that stuff like that's a huge draw further network. I mean like just look at advertising dollars the they bring in so much money for fox. And so if you don't have the big personalities in their shows on there that's a really no huge thing. That's it doesn't really make sense for me for fox. Cnn they don't really have that you know those types of personalities. You have anderson. Cooper you might have wolf blitzer but they don't command that type of audience as fox and so even just doing a comparison between fox and cnn and the situation just on its face. Like if i. I just don't see cnn it working out. If that's the case just it doesn't make sense in my head for many reasons in. We just do that pro and con the contrast with with fox and yeah once again come this conclusion of of why just rolling in hbo. Max you can have. It's only new section in. I think everybody would be happy. And that would be pretty compelling as in a streaming service. yeah so the next presidential debates. I mean you know senate debates that are going on now georgia. That just happened a few days ago. I mean there's a lot of things you know. Cnn to president dresses is really matter who the president is like the the that gets that. Get some eyeballs. So i'm enabled be pretty much the only one and yeah you know disney would probably eventually i wanna roll. Abc into their thing Nbc my it as well embassy has actually already done that because they have news aspects of nbc on peacock. It's just again. It's not the same stuff that you find on. Msnbc or nbc news. It's like it's extra offshoots loss. That's a huge loss for those streaming services like put the content that people watch on the news channel link on the streaming service. I think it just goes back to. They don't want to cannibalize their their current carriage deals and i ended understand that. But cnn makes no sense like you said because to a degree. Cnn doesn't have those like top tier news anchors that everybody's talking about like obviously they have news. Anchors that everyone knows anderson cooper wolf blitzer. They're not here in terms of like professional. I just want to make a great at what they do. They're very professional what they do. Journalists in news anchors but the command the type of viewership as from the fox anchors or nbc or msnbc inc. And that's that's the thing so like they could adapt their content. Offer a lot of the content. That cnn offers but in like more of an on demand fashion and then have because. Let's be honest. cnn. The part of cnn is h. l. n. which is headline news and that is not as popular but it still it exists. And it's still you know obviously chugging along so there's no reason something like that. They couldn't do something very similar. Words like cnn. Max or something like that where it's like this is cnn. Four h. b. o. Max it's not the exact same thing it it keeps. Her carriage deals safe for the time being but offer something that others other services aren't so there's all right moving into the main discussion here. The water might media. Obviously the two thousand twenty one shift the theatrical shift to streaming is huge. It's massive now. There's a couple of finer points that i wanted to touch on a couple of interviews. A jason clark did with a variety of different websites specifically talking about their thought process behind this and a lot of their reasoning for this. Is that a lot of the medical professionals. They've talked to they've discussed whether or not a actual vaccine is going to be feasible right away and whether or not things are going to get back to normal as quickly as they as everyone anticipates and as we talked about the last episode you in a vaccine came out right away. It's gonna take time before everybody can actually get the vaccine on top of that. There's also going to be a. They're still going to be a desire for people to stay in. They're not going to go out right away. They're not going to immediately start going back to streaming of the sporting events or going to theaters or going to live shows and things like that. It's just unfortunately the one of the fallouts of the global pandemic so that they looked at in said even if the vaccine does come in early. Twenty twenty one. It's very unlikely that. By mid twenty twenty one. We're going to have a lot of options to get movies into the theaters. When you look at the major studios out there. This is not his words. He's our mind when we look at the major studios out there. They all have their fair share of large movies that they want to come out in movie theaters. They want their big blockbusters to hit movie theaters. Because they have the potential of making the most money however when you have as many movies as all the movies that got pushed from twenty twenty two twenty twenty one. You already have the movies that you already had planned for. Twenty twenty one sitting right there on the shelf to and then you have movies. That are obviously already planned out for twenty twenty two and beyond you have to either start shifting things round or you have things coming out so close together that they don't have the potential to be as profitable as they could. If movies are coming out like perfect example black widow is coming from disney disney releases black widow it normally have about three weeks to perform very well and make it significant amount of money here in the united states in two thousand twenty one if the vaccine is actually successful. There's absolutely no way. Black widow would have three weeks to basically own the box office because of how many movies have been shifted into twenty twenty one on top of what's already been planned for twenty twenty one so there's that so they said so going back to what jason clark said. He said that this is a direct decision that they made because they don't think the twenty twenty one is going through get back to normal as quickly as some people have predicted and because of that. They've decided that they're going to put the movies on the service there. They still believe in the ethical model. They're not trying to blow up theaters and say theaters are done for a stable. Even in that's why they're making them available simultaneous in theaters. however they can see that there just isn't going twenty twenty one is not going to be go. Everything goes back to normal. I mean as we know right now things. The cova cases are continuing to rise. And we're just not having things get back to normal as some people would have predicted so that being said this is what warnermedia has decided to do. So there's two really good interviews to take a look at that Those are the first things the the other thing that i want to talk about is. There's an article here. There's two articles talking about one. Johnston keep talking about the decision to do this. Which is it's the same kind of stuff to kill our said so you can take a look at that. There is a piece on cnbc. Talking about how each bill max is. Also there's a. There's a fight within warnermedia to keep. Hbo basically at the soul of what it used to be. But it's it's shifting very rapidly based off of these decisions. There was a there was a really good point that was made online by the entertainment strategy. Guy a couple of weeks ago when one roman nine hundred ninety four was announced. Which is each field gained popularity not because of their original content but because through the eighties and nineties. There were always best known for releasing a film on their service every saturday night so every saturday night if you subscribe to each peo- you would always have a brand new film. That was releasing. I shouldn't say brand new bit a film that would be released for the first time on your television compared to being able to see it in theaters. And that's how they gained popularity obviously the late nineteen ninety s going into two thousands. They started creating a lot of really good. Original content and that boasts boosted up the amount of subscribers that they had but that is what they're b- they've they've always been known for that i mean. Hbo literally stands for home box office. So it makes perfect sense. That movies still are a part of hbo. Max when it comes to that. So there's that article what do you think about the ship yet. Just thinking about hbo. Max there's been so much news in personally. I'm looking forward to it. I'm really excited about what's happening what we're gonna see. There's just so much to unpack here. I feel like maybe. I'm to start repeating myself due to my status on some things but it's twenty twenty one twenty it's going to be twenty twenty one Snuggie hopefully not be as crazy. But it's still gonna be we're not going to get back to normal for very long time and then you know what is normal. At that point. People are scared to go outside. People are scared to go to the movies. Go to the gym. Even go to eat even go into walmart can bring to the store A huge grocery store for international people who don't know what walmart is there even skeptical of going there Just because of the threat of the virus and you know just just wide politicians are saying the companies are saying that the vaccine when it comes probably become a mass distribution and what was it I think june was one of the earliest projections just to general public so at least the united states. So it's it's going to be a long time. Usually february usually february's a pretty good month for movies Late april of may has been you know historically very good for movies sneak the summer months cohen. On please use a lot of windows that are not going to be open anymore and you got to adopt a. What are these companies can do. They're sitting on. These pretty huge blockbusters movies and neither do they take the loss you know they. They've set on them for twenty twenty. They're going to sit on them for maybe twenty twenty one and then maybe twenty twenty two when the world might be back to normal. There's no guarantee in your your betting on pupil going to the movies in in after a whole year of not going to the movies. I i don't expect people do just go run do that. It just doesn't make sense in my opinion like of of. How can you expect that's going to happen. You're not gonna get the same volume from before you know right after this pandemic thing. So you have to adapt you have to change in for these companies. You can look at it as an investment situations to investing money into hbo. Max they're gonna invest. You know these these big huge pieces of content the huge capital in terms of economic Into the streaming service to inject it in give it a lot of life. And what makes each max interesting in comparison to other streaming services that have dumped their movies is that they have. I mean i think the article posted like maybe maybe eight to ten movies. But there's definitely more out there. They can space them out. You know once per month or something like that and that will keep people engaged. That will keep people's you know coming back to the service because okay like this month. We're getting doing this month. Getting kong vs godzilla delivers his. Whatever that is next month or get into matrix four just really just seeing counter rubes again. It kinda changes the idea of of we talked about streaming services need to have content that is seen a lasting Prefer really good tv shows over movies on streaming services because it gets people back every single month or every single week and then you know it stretches out from once every of every single month. We're cutting that stream same strategy with warner brothers movies that they're gonna release and i think that's huge. I'm really excited about this. As a move. I am disappointed to see that. There are some people who are saying that this is the death of movies and how can order media. Do this amp up a ball from one or media. Where are they supposed to take this financial loss not trying to make anything back on this year when his business sense. That doesn't make any sense. Forget you know having hbo max. It could've just licensed content to netflix. Or something. At least got something for you know but now they have igbo max. It makes sense that we can't do the normal way and now we gotta adapt. I don't expect some people want. It's it's what has to happen. But i think there is a place for the movies. There's gonna be placed movies in the future because even post you know twenty twenty twenty twenty one. There's something about the movies that you make memories is something about. You know certain types of films when you go you get an experienced that you can't necessarily get home and yes movies or enjoyable at home. But they're not the same as if you want to movie theater. So i feel like covid is really accelerated a trend. That probably would have happened in woolworth's three to five years. Maybe it's accelerated the point. Okay this is the new normal. This is now and it just is what it is either. We can enjoy it. Make the best of it in have some fun or we can stay up said of like how come you know a true. Max is changing everything up. How dare they. I feel like as a consumer. You should be happy. And i feel like as an executive yes. The industry's changing yes. Things are changing rates from. Hbo warnermedia on you might be taking a substantial potential. You know cash it but your growing years you know streaming service in for other executives in the space. I think it provides some some more opportunities of okay like h maxed it. What if we were able to release our big budget movies at the same time on the streaming service and in theaters and get the best of both worlds a little bit. I it's hbo. Max is really opened the door. And i'm curious what other streaming services are gonna follow through it. Yeah i completely agree. I mean holtom. It comes down to this war media there. I tweeted this out there. Which lena rock and hard place. They've got films sitting on their shelf that they could easily do something with but if they keep them there on the shelf they're just going to collect us any money. They've already poured into marketing. Some of these films is going to go away. And they're just going to continuously. Lose while i wouldn't say that every one of the sixteen movies that are releasing on this on. Hbo maximum needed to release unscrew. Max i mean. I'm sure it's entirely possible. That some of the bigger blockbusters could have had maybe a little bit longer of a theatrical window before they ended up on hbo. max. I'm not going to discount it because i think the premise of the entire plan that they're doing is that. Hbo max is the place to go if you want to see these films and you don't have to see him in theaters at least twenty twenty one. Kill ours comments about well. This is only for twenty twenty one. We're not saying this is going to happen. Going forward with every film it makes sense. I'm not like i'm not going to disagree with the idea that this is a plan for twenty twenty one for two reasons one to bolster. Hbo max get more subscribers over to that service because that is their direct to consumer offering that the company has and then the other aspect of it is twenty twenty. One is still like you said is going to be a place where it's not going to be normal or we're not going to get back to everything being the way it was pre covid in two thousand twenty. One is just not going to happen so. I think that this plan works now. The other catch of course is that. How does this affect the people who work with warnermedia and this has been the discussion that has been online. The last couple of days after the announcement came out everybody was like well. there was analysts. Were immediately like well. This is screwing over the theaters. The theaters aren't going to survive. Something like this. Somebody seems that everybody seems to forget. They're still four other studios. Every studio decides to do their for major studios should say once every studio decides to do this. it's not going to kill the theaters. It just frees up the space or the other films that are releasing to make a little bit more money. If things don't do go back to normal like somehow these analysts are assuming they will the so that so there's that i don't think theaters getting screwed over but anyway the talk for the peop- the negative on this was theaters. Were being screwed over. There's not really a negative to hbo. Max or the customer or the consumer or the subscriber. This is a huge plus to them like obviously. This is a huge thing. I think in the future going into twenty twenty two. Could there be some sort of aspect where for an additional fee on top of your subscription. You're offered these films. We've talked about this in the past. We've we've talked about. What kind of offerings could they have in order to. You know basically get away from the theater. Theatrical model but still be able to have things i think that is entirely possible but that's obviously further way out. I do think that there was now. Of course okay. So getting back to what people are talking about now. So the big talk of course. Is that one. Media or warner brothers specifically has been a company that a lot of talent really working with when it comes to directors. They have a long history of having directors and talent specifically actors producers working with them for a long period of time. Because warner brothers has become the very the studio amongst the tops views were talent is respected. Talent is allowed to do things that other studios wouldn't necessarily allow them to do places where you know the studio where they have. No problem pain their talent. Well for the content. They were allowing perfect example. And i'm bringing this up as an example for a specific reason. Is chris nolan criminal and his all about theatrical release and his film tenant got delayed and he was adamant about it. Want him wanting it to be the film to potentially usher in the theatrical. Return getting theaters to return to normal and his film being that one because he wanted his films released theaters. He was very adamant about that in one of others while they did exactly what he wanted and they brought that film to theaters and subsequently the film didn't do as well as anybody would have hoped but not because it wasn't a good film but because people just weren't going to the theaters at least here in the us so the film ended up grossing about three hundred and sixty million dollars worldwide here. In the united states it grossed under sixty million dollars which was significantly lower than any other criminal and film because of what's currently happy with pandemic went and spent money marketing. The film they went and spent money. Obviously making the film and they probably lost money overall because the film was rumored to have cost over. Two hundred million dollars in that including marketing probably lost money on that that money on that on that film to make sure that criminal nolan. Got the film out in theaters exactly the way he wanted. Unfortunately it also showed that the theatrical model in this current situation with the pandemic does not work. And that's the biggest thing so that so the question of course from the analyst or fine tuned into the entertainment industry and talk about streaming was. How does this affect the talent relations. How warner brothers going to be paying the back end amounts of these films to the talent associated and if you're unfamiliar with this this isn't stuff that we to cover up here. The basically a film does really well. Talent high profile talent top billed cast and the director. Typically they walk away with a larger sum of money. it's like a bonus liked. The movie does really well. You walk with a bonus. One woman. Nineteen eighty-four patty jenkins. The director and gal gadot. They were said to have made a ten million dollar bonus just because the water was trying to make sure that they were happy with the fact that the film was coming. Hp max and even though it was you know wasn't going to be having as big of theatrical release now the other sixteen films of course. They're releasing on youtube max. They're not they. they didn't find tune. Those deals in place for the release of those films to say that the top talent of the directors were going to be getting that large that large of a bonus. If it's going to be difficult to shell out that kind of money all year long for these films to the to the talent associated with them so then the question is how do you make it up while turns out less than a couple of hours before the announcement went public that the film slate was coming to hbo. Max that's when they started notifying talent and directors and agencies and things like that and it was. It came as a shock. Because it wasn't like we're asking your permission. We're just telling you how it's going to be so there are some people are very upset by that One of those people is christopher nolan. Even though christopher nolan doesn't have a film coming in twenty twenty one he has been extremely vocal saying that. Hbo max is the worst streaming service out there. And i'm pretty sure stating that. Because of the decision that was made by one media to release these films because he's such a proponent for theatrical releases he saying that this is a very bad decision and he's very upset and it's very likely that he won't be working with warner media in the future because of his comments just because you know whatever but at the same time you have to look at his comments and say will didn't they do exactly what you wanted to do with the film and you're the one who is adamant about people going back to the theaters to say the theaters and one. The theaters weren't saved by ten coming out in two people didn't want to go out to the theaters. And that's not going to change anytime in the near future. Now there's other people out there like a good example steven soderbergh. He has come on record and said that you know this is unfortunately something that has happen due to the current situation that the world is in. This isn't something that warner is doing and saying that this is the only way it's going to be going forward. They explicitly said that this is just their plan for twenty twenty one and that they'll plan on twenty twenty two when we get to twenty twenty earlier when we get closer to twenty twenty two so i think there's some level minded people and i think there are some people who are getting very upset by crystal and honestly i think anybody who knows him knows how he is when it comes. Theatrical releases would assume that this would be something that he would get upset about but it is frustrating when you look at the larger picture which is these films if they held them to twenty twenty two. That means you either decide to take a hold on all production and not create anything in twenty twenty one because you essentially have to adjust your entire release schedule so that you're not consistently having theaters back to back to back with releases going into twenty twenty two and and you know ford from there so the real question is obviously we. I know how you you stated how you felt when it came to this this whole premise of doing the know the film slate on hbo. Max but when it comes to the talent you think were a shot themselves in the foot with the talent specifically because they're known for being such a talent friendly studio do you think that they shot themselves in the foot a little bit too soon to judge that given that there's been one creator who is really complaining. I mean i know that patty jenkins wasn't really a fan of doing it this way but ultimately she onboard. And it's making the best of it. I don't think he's max wants to do. This is the first option like it's not like they're go out and it's like hey we're gonna revolutionize industry just because you know we're gonna do it. I feel like general. Public is at least i expect them to give give. Hbo max in a little bit of a break of like you know. Desperate times call for desperate measures in the game. Not because we're trying to detroit blazers of because we as a company wanna make money. We as a company have employees and we want to make some type of money to grow the service in some way. And hey here's an opportunity. I just feel like holding onto cd. That theaters are the only way to watch movies or certain types of movies is just. It's archaic like it's a theater chains. Were already getting screwed over like it. They were already on the downhill track. It's not like there is something new that was happening yet. Covid just accelerated. But there's nothing like new going on. Just people do not want to go to the movies anymore you see like. Amc has been a lot of money to renovate the theaters to make it more of a choice experience. But i've been to many big budget movies on opening night and they're hardly anybody there. It just isn't the same anymore. You have this factor of the movies and it's now people wanna do it anymore big screen. Tv's or cheaper Streaming services and frankly the certain types of movies that do draw a lot of butts in seats or not you know. It's pretty niche type of just like action movies superhero movies that really get a lot of and then animated movies really get a lot of the ticket. Sales per movies. I mean was at twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen me. How much money did more will make in comparison to the rest of the box office industry of arrest the box office globally like a they earn so much superhero films. You know. I don't think melo's creatives. I think it's if a creative. Ib be worrisome. About what happens after twenty twenty one or one happens after at least for the united states which is the biggest market in terms of global box. Office in china could be a close second depending on the type of movie. It just depends. On how cove is england the united states and how much consumer confidence is backup. How much you know people. are you know. Have confidence back to to go to movie theaters. Not and you might see this in two thousand twenty two. But at a certain point there's going to be reckoning with. Hbo and warnermedia about the future. And are they gonna keep this agreement Or they're going to you know. Get rid of it. Do you think that it really also depends on the engagement like is going to be. The same amount of people are gonna go see theater because they're always the people and you're not going to get more is on the movie due to it being out on the streaming service. Also get those people who aren't necessarily gonna be theater anyway. You can get them on board and you know the first month or two in like those are really important numbers for like projecting success of a movie whatnot. There's some interesting questions going there. And then there's interesting questions of funding like tenant. yeah it might have gotten. Would you say like three hundred million. How long was it in the theater. I mean granted. There's nothing really else going on the theaters but it seemed like he was in the theater in extraordinarily long time like like longer than normal in affiliate. That kind of skews. The number of bit by like each a warnermedia's have to worry about the financial side of things. Sometimes box offices are huge. Sometimes they're small in creators enactors if they're really good can get a percentage of that like robert downey junior get a percentage of the next movies of eve's zen to worry about that as well so the whole bag of factors that are gonna have to be addressed but a league twenty twenty one problem. I feel like people going into just realized that. It's just a weird year. It's a weird year for movies and content the fact that we're seeing parodies of like the pandemic unlike superstore other. Tv shows and comedies. just pretty. it's great examples of where we are. Now it's a weird time. I don't think the pup- we're gonna hold it warnermedia. You're going to have a bad view of them. Frankly they might have a positive view than potentially of like. Hey we can reach both theaters and streaming service. All at the same time. I mean there. There could be a potential positive in a positive view by creators of this. Move that we haven't touched about because it is new but there might be like a huge could be a huge draw for creatives. We can do this new opportunity now. I think chris nolan is. He's always been one to owns a buck the trend but always wanna say his mind. I remember you might remember this too. I mean a few years ago. There's a big push to move to digital cameras read. Was you know becoming a big brand in. He was very stuck on his films being on thirty five. Millimeter in seventy millimeter. And that's where he shot. Dunkirk on news is a beautiful film. But i remember he got in a very public spat about that and how he still wants film to be thing looking back. There have been more films. Tv shows that have used more digital cameras. They are film like it's just a dying thing. It's also more costly to do so. It's it's hugely more costly ends. The one of the biggest processors film was kodak and they kind of went out of business. So it's just yeah. So he's he's one to say is like he's always one to speak is online and you know i appreciate that about him. That he's a filmmaker. He has strong opinions. And i feel like with this type of success that he is indefinitely always. He's always always allowed to say his opinion by his opinion does have wait. Nfl like having opposing side too. You know arguments kind of helps make a helps helps bring the truth about like he. He does have some valid points. I just feel. I just disagree. Just because it's twenty twenty twenty twenty one just the unique situation of things but if this was the normal course of events i think he has a really good argument. And it's it's really fair. Yeah i think ultimately if it was happening in any other situation where theaters were still open. And he's max was doing this right now. By all means. I think i would also like and i wanna make it clear. I love going to the movie theaters. I mean when i was before i had children. I used to go to the movie theaters two three times a month. I loved going to the movie theaters. I had children of course at eats away your time. You don't have as much time. He can't get a babysitter as frequently as you want. I haven't been able to go as much now. My children are just getting to the age where i could start to go more often. But obviously the pandemic is put a wrench in that. But i will say that like the reality of it is. We're in a unique situation. You put it best. This is a this is not the normal. This is a very unique situation. And do have to figure out the best way for your company to be able to the situation warner brothers. While they obviously want to make everybody happy they want the consumer to be happy. They want their theatrical partner. The theater partners to be happy. They want their talent to be happy. They want the creative people who are creating content for them to be happy. They want everybody to be happy. That's the ideal situation in reality. There are still a business and they still have to make money for their business and if they can't make the money that the that they should be making they have to come up with other ways of making money and while i would. There's still certain films if things get better. There are still certain films that are on their slate. That i would go to see them in theater even though i haven't hbo max subscription. Because i'd like to see them on that big screen. That's how i am. But i appreciate the fact that they're trying to do something that's even by. Its is revolutionizing the industry but it's almost unintentionally doing it specifically because they're looking out for themselves. That's why they're doing this. They're looking out for their core business and saying we have these these projects we have two options we can either not make hardly any money with them we can or we can push them next to twenty twenty two or we can try to make the best of what we've got which is put them in fuel max money parts aside about how they're all gonna you know how the all gonna work out for it. I think for the consumer. This is a great great thing and i applaud them for that when it comes to the theaters theaters. Unfortunately they. You know they're going to have to deal with the times changing. Let's also that's the one thing. I didn't point out the theaters themselves. They did respond to this announcement. Amc ceo the literal headline for them speaking their mind was amc ceo livid. About warner brothers. Decision and i have to say what's funny to amc's so livid about this because they were also livid about universal having trolls come to theaters are come to pay video-on-demand back in april instead of going to theaters even though we were in the height of the pandemic then here we are in a situation. We're having we have even more cases than we did back in april and theater. Owners are still seeing bro. Getting mad about the fact that these companies that still have to survive in order for them to survive are trying to figure out ways of making sure that their business survives so that when things can eventually go back to normal hopefully they still exists. So that's the theaters can exist as well so i find a little disconcerting that the theater owners can sit there and complain about a situation like this when in reality unless they're going to make people go out to the theaters in an unsafe situation and somehow collect money from them in this situation. I don't know how they're going to adjust. Anyway if anything. I'd start trying to figure out ways of broadening your horizons and other ways of making money to hold yourself over for the next year because let's be honest. It's not getting any better anytime in the immediate future. So i think did more brothers is is is looking out for the consumer and obviously their bottom line. And that's what's most important to them right now and. I think that there's a lot of other people other parts of the equation that make you know that are trying that one or media is trying to make happy. They're going to not be happy about the situation but honestly the way the future is. I mean before one woman nine hundred thousand four was announced to be coming to the streaming service. Disney viacom cbs warnermedia. They're all reorganising their entire structure of their company to focus more on direct to consumer co streaming services. And things like that. And if that's what they're focusing on then they should still be focusing on that going into twenty twenty one. You don't get a vaccine and suddenly stop focusing on that. There's a reason why these companies are focusing on it and it's because there is it's much more profitable for them. Long term to be focused on dc rather than having to split theatrical box offices with the with the theater companies and things like that so while certain movies are gonna obviously garner ton more money in theaters. It's just not gonna happen. So this is the best option. And i think that a lot of people are going to see that as time goes on and it'll be really interesting because like i said earlier. Disney is having investor summit in two days from the time. We're recording this. And if they sit there and announced that they're also going to be doing something similar where some of their top tier films even if they're charging extra for their films like they did with milan for the premiere access. Even if they do that if they announce it is there still is. They're going to be as much backlash on disney as there is on warnermedia. Because i don't think that's the case because disney is right now being very successful as a very good chance that they could be announcing they've got over eighty five million subscribers as of the first year with disney plus. Maybe even more and the thing is you know. They're doing something right there. Stock prices are going up because of that so the reality of it is if disney does something similar where they cut the theaters. Which by the way disney was the top box office studio for twenty nineteen. If that's the case are as everyone can get upset with disney of the theater owner is gonna swear off disney and say like no. They're doing it wrong. They can't afford to alienate disney and warner brothers score number one and number two respectively when it comes to box office returns. Just it's not feasible. All right so with that being said that is going to wrap up this episode. Obviously this episode was a little bit longer than recent episodes. But there was of talk about. And i think it could discussion so hopefully you guys enjoyed it as well but that being said there are a number of trailers that have released the number. There's actually been slowing down a little bit but there are trailers have released. You can find those as well as all the articles that we talked about here on the podcast in our show notes which can be found at the stream awards dot. Io you can also follow us on twitter. Join our dischord for all latest articles. Talk about here on the podcast and some that we don't you can follow us on instagram. announcements related to new episodes of the podcast posting you can send us an email at thus streaming wars gmail.com with any questions comments concerns feedback or topics. You'd like us to talk about in future episode and speaking feedback. If wherever you're listening to the podcast we always greatly appreciate if you leave us feedback as well next week. We'll be back. We'll be talking about disney pluses. I should say disney's investor summit in specifically all their streaming news comes out of that that'll be next week and then when like i said last week we'll be taking two weeks off for the holidays so join us next week as we talk about that and everything else with all that being said for twenty myself. This has been the shoe. Moore's please continue safe out there and we'll see guys next. Thanks listening to the stream and was check us out on twitter and instagram. Also consider supporting us on patriotic wings can be filed that the streaming walls dot com.

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 Qualcomms Snapdragon 888 processor for 2021 Android phones / Warner Bros. will release new 2021 movies simultaneously on HBO Max / FCC Chairman Ajit Pai will step down on January 20th

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Qualcomms Snapdragon 888 processor for 2021 Android phones / Warner Bros. will release new 2021 movies simultaneously on HBO Max / FCC Chairman Ajit Pai will step down on January 20th

"This week i asked julia. Alexander joins us talk about hbo. Max and warner brothers releasing all the twenty twenty one movies simultaneously streaming and in theaters bunch of other streaming news hind garden joins us talk about qualcomm's chips and of course we talked a little bit about what's up at the fcc going up on the first guest this. The verge cast is brought to you by systems iris developers. You've got some extra time on your hands. Use it to learn. New database interest systems. Iris allows you to connect your systems use any data model and applied machine learning. So you can build. Data intensive and mission critical applications in no time nassar chance to level up your database five form and try inter systems iris. The fastest way to build applications ready set code visit interesting dot com slash tri irish to learn more. That's interesting dot com slash t. r. y. i. r. s. This episode is brought to you. By outgrow and at the end of this ad outgrow is going to give you a chance to try their modern marketing tools. Free for thirty days. Outgrew it makes it easy for marketers to build run and optimize personalized content. Pieces like chat bots assessments calculators. It's powerful enough for powerhouses like salesforce. Adobe marco an easy enough for freelancers and entrepreneurs to leverage with no design experience to get a thirty day free trial goes you outgrow. Dot co slash. Vox that's outgrow dot. Co slash avihou x. For a special thirty day free trial no card required. Verse cast to flagship podcast of extremely slow techniques. That's what yeah and lowering expectations. That's my plan. I'm your friend. Neil bones here i'm here The person that's lived across the hall from you for like four years. But you've never said it's awkward And so you just see each other in the hall and pretend like you know each other but you. Don't julia alexander's here. Your garden burgas here. Also hi can i okay. So here's my story about the person in the hallway deeter. Are you ready. Yeah so we we. Until recently we lived in an apartment building in williamsburg real thing. That's a real apartment building. Look at it in our next door neighbor noticed when we first moved in very tall and handsome australian man had a big beautiful family and lots of tall beautiful australian. People were always going department and then eventually realized that the new york knicks hurt often in the hallway. This apartment building. It turns out that he was international celebrity. Mega preacher carl lentz. Who is now in the news like the gossip about my old neighbor. I'm not gonna go into why there's gossip but he's like a celebrity who's having a celebrity crisis and everyone just keeps texting it to me. No he was just the guy in the whole person anyway. That's my story. i guess. Slow a slow ish tech newsweek where cruising towards the holidays i feel like everyone is just really ready for two thousand twenty over. With the exception of our our nation's president he's trying to prolong as long as he can because it's over frame you see what i'm saying. All right got to start where you always start. Which is the pandemic still the biggest story in the world. This is the worst week of the pandemic united states. Thirteen million cases two hundred and sixty four thousand deaths as of us recording this right now i know i i've been talking for weeks about trump saying thousands of google engineers are working in website. I think obvious to everyone that he's not gonna do anything about the pandemic a tragedy. The incoming biden administration picks up that work a lot. Faster news on the vaccine front mary. Beth griggs our science editor in the science team have a newsletter called virus. We're very much tracking vaccine information. The pfizer vaccine are a vaccine approved in the uk pressure on the fda to approve it. Here we'll see goes maderno. Which is the other vaccine asking. Fda for emergency authorization. Mary beth is tracking. That stuff subscribed newsletter. You want to keep up the latest of that. In addition to the vaccine is very much a logistics problem. We've made them. We've tested them. We're gonna roll them out how we roll them out there. Complicated to distribute. They need to be very cold And who gets them. I is a challenge. It's a logistics. Challenge nicole westman run article for us about how frontline health care. Workers should get vaccines. I according to experts and how that conversations going so check that out and then lastly sort of the second order effects of the pandemic. We often talk about facebook moderation. There's gonna be a vaccine. Disinformation facebook is already saying it's going to remove a covid nineteen vaccine misinformation So i think we're going to see another round of conversation Just about how our social networks or reinforcing the truth and tammy that misinformation as the vaccine rolls out and the information economy kinda go sideways around it which salivating we all expect okay again. Check out an antivirus virtual com- slash. Antivirus that's marabouts newsletter. About vaccine treatment developments. it's great. She's doing a great job. Okay issue max. Huge news in the world is streaming today. And then some other stuff happening today. But today warner brothers announced that every movie it's releasing twenty twenty one will be detained eight released on. Hbo max and theaters in the united states for a period of one month. Walked me through this news exactly because there are lots of caveats around it. Yeah there's a lot happening. So basically what happen warner brothers came out and said we have the slate of movies. Tvd they could change depending on the pandemic and we plan to release them in the united states. Both on hbo max and in theaters they come out. They will be available on hbo. Max for a period of one month and then they will go back into theaters. She basically had a month to watch it which they are also doing. I believe with wonder woman. Nineteen eighty-four is the same kind of thing where they didn't tell us the time they told us it's not going to be on. Hbo max after month and now based on this news it seems pretty like wonder woman nine hundred. Eighty four will also go back into leaders to when it's on issue it's not in theatres not simultaneously both so the the the the conversation about this that we reporting that really needs to happen. Is the deal that i imagine. Amc regal made with warner brothers which is like work cool with you. Taking these big movies that would normally drive people to movie theaters And putting them on your service we want some aspect of that. Whatever you're doing over there. We want that business to make that more clear when universal and bmc made a deal for shorter theatrical window. Amc basically was like we're getting some form of that revenue back. Even those are theaters So these these behind the door deals that are happening or are gonna come to. We'll start to understand a little bit more the process it's gonna work but for now what people need. If you're sitting there and you're like i just wanna watch wonder woman. I want to watch june. How do i do it. You can either go to eaters in the united states. The date comes out if you want to know if they're open please don't if the cases are or you can sit at home sign that. Hbo max which they're curling offering a discounted deal on and watch it from the comfort of your home and then it. After the thirty day window they'll still be in theaters. yeah and the internationally. It looks like it's all in theaters because obviously is not available internationally and that is obviously also reflected in the fact that other countries have done a better job with managing the virus than we have right. I mean i talk about this Daily think about ten for nolan and the idea that led to this in my opinion was two things happened. One tenant worked out pretty well internationally. For warner brothers. In a way that it didn't domestically part of those because up until the recent resurgence in cases countries for better at handling it. They're still better at handling it than our country and so they realized we can lease things internationally and people go to theaters. And it's a little bit easier to their and domestically where their number one concern is the growth of. Hbo mags which is increasingly difficult with a high price point and not that much new content outside of whatever. Hbo kind of has ready to go. This is a good way of bringing people into the service in hopefully keeping them there and then the second thing that led to it in my opinion Was milan on disney. Plus they kind of them and universal but troll kind of really kick started like we can just do this theater work with us on it regardless we to start releasing these movies making money again. So shelly taylor. Who's the ceo of draft house. The smaller movie theater chain was just on decoder this week in one of the things she said was. It can't just be one movie at a time. The suitors to get their act together and put out a slate of movies. Such that people want to go to. And there's a bunch of stuff to watch. How do you think that affects. This move affects the idea that the studios will come together and actually come back to slates in managing their weekends against each other mining. My favorite thing to do is look at data charts genuinely by. Just sit home. I look at charts that people send him a thing. That is really hard to like picture. But his true is like the top ten fifteen movies. Every are not even talk to movies. Make up fifty to sixty percent of the box office. So that means if disney comes out and they're like we haven't avengers no one really cool like you guys do you. And that's people are gonna watch on average in two thousand nine thousand. Nine people saw less than four movies in the theater and you can probably guess which ones they were it would have been avengers would have been joker so there's a certain type of movie that we know does really well theaters and those news. That will continuously. That's where universal is not ever going to pull fast and furious nine marvelous. Never gonna poll entirely up on the vendors. Movie warner brothers is never gonna pull superman movie. But for the time being there's a perfect opportunity for them under the. I used orgies but under this moment of happening in the world to kind of test this theory that they expected to play out in five to ten years in the next twelve months. Which is this beautiful moment of acceleration. And it's will people stay at home and spend money and can we bring in revenue additionally this can we all the pipes available to us and well theaters work with on it and now we're going to see that start out. They're gonna simultaneously release for years to come the biggest movies in theaters and on. Hbo max and it's just going to get to a point of which one you prefer boat. I think we need to have this. Conversation is that streaming is built on this idea that you have to have a consistent outpouring of big things to bring people in in order for them to keep subscribing an easy way to do that is moving a bunch of your theatrical titles to your streaming service either out simultaneous releases for as exclusives and. I think we're gonna hear. This is the beginning of it. We will start. We'll hear way more about this. Exact line of thinking next thursday when disney has it's extremely investor day. And it's kinda like we're gonna do the same thing. So can we go back to this this thirty day window. It's like a reverse window to me so it's hitting simultaneously theaters in the streaming service. And then it'll leave the streaming service but stand theaters in the way. I normally think of a movie windows. It hits theaters for a while. And then it goes away and then you wait a while and then it shows up streaming or for rental so. Why would the theaters want it. After thirty days like the people that are hype for it. That really wanna go see it in a theater are going to try and do it in the first thirty days is thinking that there's just not going to be at that many movies so we might as well have them after thirty days just so we can have something because eventually people will come back and they wanna see the thing in theater so we might they might as well let it be exclusive us. Is there a second window where it comes back to the streaming service after that. I'm just trying to figure out what does. Amc get out of having wonder woman thirty days after. We've all watched it at home. Hbo max right. mc which jeff sold like twenty million more but stocks is looking to survive. And the thing about this deal specifically that like we really need to hammer home is that it's a simultaneous released. So if you are in a place. I can't think taught my head but in the united states where theaters open and you want to go to a theater to watch dune or mortal combat or whatever's coming out that you can go do that. Amc glad to have you at the same time. The story that i think is going to come out is they are getting some form of a deal out of this. I don't know what it is. It could be that warner brothers comes in and they accept fifty percent revenue as opposed to sixty five percent revenue on whatever. It is an. Emc can make it back that way. But i remember an sees a co aaron who has the greatest earnings calls every three months. He'll just go. Wedding like quote. Winston churchill battle. We have to. We have to win. We're going to. He was basically like we want to work with the studios. We get it. We understand you guys need to get stuff out. We want to be alive in six months so we can figure that out. I'm sure that they have a deal. It be much different. If ornaments came onset all of our movies between twenty one are going to be exclusively. Hbo max and he's not gonna get anything. There would have been uproar the fact that mc hasn't really come out and been like this is terrible the fact that they stressed in their blog posts from jason killer who is a sea of warnermedia and sarnoff. Who's the head of warner brothers. Were like working with the theaters it. There's there's deals in place for sure that makes sense for both of those parties. I fully believe that there are definitely deals because the last what was the movie where students like we might put it on the streaming service and all the theaters. Like how dare you world tour. Tros world stroz world tour completely. Blew up the world. It's like now it's fine. I still don't get the window. I still don't get it. I don't think it's fine. I think the virus has gotten worse. I i think that know what i would think of is the trolls world tour moment which historians will long note is. They were gonna pull it in. The argument was just delay. It because things will go back to normal and you won't destroy our is by flipping the switch and go into streaming and just didn't happen. I think tenant is the example of warner brothers and christopher nolan really wanted that movie out there was a dip. They said here's our shot. Christopher nolan was shot. And i max that's the thing i do. I'm christopher nolan. I do i. Max you gotta see it on the screen and he put it out and no one in the united states went right and i think that proved to everyone. We we gotta move. I think and now it's worse. And i think if you're warner brothers in you're saying my going to bet on vaccines am i going to bet on treatments and i'm to be right today as we sit here. It's worse than ever in every day is worse. Well there's the other aspect to this. Which i knew neal shakes. At and t. Focused is like this is a company with one hundred and sixty billion dollars a debt that or trying to convince shaky. Shareholders that spending hundred and seventy five billion dollars to major entertainment or media properties one of which is going to be completely derailed by the end of two thousand twenty one hundred twenty two just pay tv at a time when everything about their business screams flee there now trying to prove that no warnermedia is a thing that's going to happen and we're gonna make sure this works so what they're going to try to do. Extremely hard is accelerate. Growth of hbo maxed. Going to two point. Where it's like no see it's working out. We figured it out. They have not the are still figuring that aspect but more than any other company to. At and t. Is like we need to make sure that we have to prove that this batman works like this is the thing that we were right from the beginning but and john stinky. Tears been hinted about this for months. He in the lobster earnings call. I think his quote was like we're not optimistic about theaters we can. We think it's really shaky still. And we are going to evaluate the holiday season the closer that we get to it. And as soon as we know you'll know and it's clearly that they knew that with rising cases they were not going to stand a better chance of forming a way to increase scrubbers in generate recurring revenue. Which is the fund word in silicon valley entertainment these days in denton dent betting on big theatrical things. That would bring people who theaters. I want to ask you that. Because the mentioned john stinky you messin jason killer. These are the new guys they brought in keeler and he his job. He was the head of who his job is ahead of warnermedia to basically blow it up right. He i think is the phrase us was. We were a wholesaler in that they sold they made content and they sold it to tv networks in theater chains and they've got the money that way now they're retailer selling direct to consumers and he's shifting the whole company around that so if you're betting on hbo max you've got. The slate of movies is in whatever state of completion. Yeah this is your time to say everyone should sign up for eight show maximum. Hopefully you don't quit. Because next month we have another good movie. You're gonna watch yet. I've three kind of predictions for. At and t. warnermedia and the next kind of year to your three one. They divisive half warnermedia easily They just it doesn't make a lot of sense for them keeping on two things holding onto and we're already seeing it. They're selling crunch reportedly selling crunchy role for i think two billion has the report number one billion. They're finding ways to get rid of stuff that doesn't bring him anything in. They will start releasing binge mood or binge model stuff for. Hbo shows which will drive people insane but it will drive people to hbo. Max and get them off linear lino. Paytv is just going away smart. Move there already kind of doing it and it will just increase And three they will move a number of their kind of big titles and have the simultaneous thing because they need to keep that subscription thing. I mean the irony is like everyone knows this like it's it's almost boring. it's like new titles are lead to addition contact comfort. Continental libraries is what keeps retention. So they have the library. They have the best library of any streaming service. It's phenomenal. they don't have the new titles they have the higher price point so the way to get out of that is to do what i think disney's going to do to it. Disney plus is like every month. You have the biggest movie that you're going to bring to the stream servicing. You're gonna find ways to keep people being okay with that fifteen dollars. A month spending especially when netflix the negativity hits fifteen dollars and people realize their content is. But it's not great and that will be a fun moment to really play. I think you're there'll be some big warnermedia changes with content and ownership. I think they have to. that debt. Load is to save the keyword. Signed for the julia. Block of disclosures comcast owns universal comcast. Nbc universal division is a minority investor in. Vox media our parent company to. We are producing netflix. Show you mentioned that flex three eighteen hates me. And i think third what is it is there more. There's usually more well. We don't have to be not to mention kirby anymore. Yeah because they're now officially shutdown rest in peace so that there's the block is a little smaller so one thing i want to just call out to me. This is the biggest news of all wonder woman. Nineteen eighty-four is coming out on christmas day date with theaters in the day. That was announced. I was actually disappointed. Is very excited for the movie. I'm very excited to know everything about that. Blue monday remix the trailer for wonder woman nineteen eighty-four that anyone has a deep dive where that came from. Please let me know. We'll pay a premium to publish it. Just give me a call. But right now max is only intended. Adp in doesn't support very many surround formats and then patty jenkins the director of wonder woman. Nineteen four tweeted. It will be the first movie in four k. Hdr dolby vision dolby. Atmos have they said anything about these which is great. I'm very proud of her. I'm sure that she was like what the hell like. You're making me put this on people's thirty two inch tv's. Like i want the good stuff too. So i'm glad they did it. It's been a long time coming. It's been to most to hear anything about hmx. Besides well. They just read the interface a little bit. So it's a little bit better now. But they were behind technically. Have they said anything. What these new movies next year. You would expect they come out on the highest quality possible. This is going to be the biggest debate between you and i for time to you think. That's not great and it's like my uppercut screaming it's anyways Yeah they all the four k. Hbo max right now. we watch it. We were watching the undoing and we were watching the flight attendant. Good good shows you're correct. Their content is gonna you start the show and it puts up the skip intro button and the button doesn't work. Yeah the quickie stuff they have to. I know it's technically it's broke. They lie to you. I watched the to the flight attendant five times. We have insurance. How coming up. But i have an end of year rankings of the streaming services and literally the con. It every single compile. It's like the ui design could be better. Great gains under interwebs call. Juliet's he walked yes to your point. Everything will be In four k. It's and to your point about kind of the tech side of things. The biggest the biggest thing that's gonna come out of this and the next week would be my bet. Maybe two weeks Actually on roku like roku is how the upper hand for so long where they've been like you didn't know signing up for it. I had a source at roku wants. Tell me that disney gets the deals. Disney gets because they're disney and it's very hard to be disney or not so rocus had the upper hand it is now extremely hard for them to say we don't want feel. Max went every single. Big movie at twenty twenty. One from that studio is going to be. Hbo max so this is. I'm betting on that as well as some the them saying row us being on roku is just as important as us being in theaters. Like that's the decision they're making with this move. Yeah that's certainly is whenever we've had stories feedback we've gotten from people so it doesn't matter because it's on the obviously the leverage has changed and hopefully by christmas day. They've solved this problem because they're going to want wonder woman to everybody. Google tv the new one. I think the google tv. It's great those pink but it works. Everything's on it's beautiful. That's my contributions. heim you us. Read it your living room. I just read it my whole living her. And so what you get. So i have. The video are which are which are quite lovely They go together really nicely. Shown as hasn't gotten there yet. But i'm i'm confident that will work well because york nice. How many how many airports have you got there. I have just the one. But i only the one you only need one. What about your my two point. One point is it The same thing as the sound separate. H two point one in one regular so i i have just enough for a sonos to next gen consoles and then some sort of streaming box which i haven't decided on yet i will tell you this. We said we were going to do an hd episode after the election joke in andrew producer has been putting together. What he is referring to is. The huge holiday spectacular. I'm so excited to see. We're looking for someone from the hdmi foundation and talk to us. If you know that person too. I imagine it's just fascinating. So the reason this big upgrading. Your living room right high quality picture high quality sound when these movie theaters. Are you going to say ban. My living room is better or are you going to say. I really want that theater experience. I'm sitting in my living room. You not risking look. I love wonder. Woman i love. You know dune. I'm really excited for the matrix for you can ask my fiance. I have been bothering her within the heights trailers for months but i am not risking my life. I don't love any of these movies. To the point. Where like it is worth risking the life and my life also. It's a pretty good tv. Yeah i live in new york city for one fifteen dollar movie ticket i can pay for a month of. Hbo everyone in my house and all my friends can come over and became. We'll not yet but one day. Hopefully everyone can come over and watch it like. That's a pretty good experience. The popcorn's cheaper. It's like yeah. I'm not going to get like a theater. Full of people like bursting into applause during like an avengers thing when the cool thing happens but like for the money for like ninety nine percent movies. Like i'm really confident that that. Tv's gonna going to do the job and like the question for me is like how does one brothers put this genie back into the bottle. Like once you get used to spending fifteen dollars a month and getting all these movies and you got to watch it from your couch. And you're not spending a hundred dollars to take everyone out to go and see you know wonder woman theater. This holiday is like how do you. How do you get that back. I don't know if one of brothers wants to genie back in the bottle and also high will get on zoom with you and yell during exciting scenes. If you because. I'm also trying to rob fever with our verge colleagues. Bijon service where we we watch. The movies is julia. Plus that's what we're going to call it. It's fifteen dollars a month and julia just yells at. You know we'll do. We'll do a rift track. We'll do a podcast every movie where all it is is complete silence except during the good parts when we cheer you. Play the podcast. While you watch the movie enter the perfect verbs colleague. Megan will no longer watch marvel movies with me. Because she quote the yell. And then you fully with meghan. That's seems like the correct correct evaluation. Julia so i'm brings up an interesting point so before you would go to theater when the movie came out all of you pay fifteen dollars. You byron popcorn and soda. The movie lead theater. It will get syndicated. Radio would sell it to like four different tv. Channels they would sell it to hbo. Then they would put it on. I tunes and you would buy it then. They would put it on netflix. Maybe by it then they would finally at the end of its road. Sell it to tnt for pennies and there's a million opportunities to generate money from these movies as a movie not as merchandising theme parks or anything you put it on a streaming service. You pay fifteen bucks a month. It's just there in those other. All those other little bites at the apple seem to go away. How do these economics even workout. Yeah i mean that's the question. There's like the two full question that i haven't seen anyone really answer And it's it's like when the most important questions which the two part of that is piracy. One he's going to make a comeback if people can't afford to keep paying for the stuff and to not piracy related but password sharing related is like i have you know four or five people in max's like families and friends one person's paying fifteen dollars and it's issues. It's an issue that i would imagine in my small non-executive cranes like you could be making a lot. More money off this if you stop password sharing but they you know. They seem to take their note from net flicks where read read hastings. Intense relatives have been like people are watching. It's helped mouth like we're doing okay. But not everyone is netflix. Actually no one is netflix. And so it's an issue that they're gonna run into but the thing about what you're about something i also talked about quite often Which is for example. You cannot stream harry potter anywhere right now which is an insane thing because when to streaming services launched this year they prided themselves on carrying harry potter and now they're nowhere to watch potter. You have to have nbc but like tv. Donald peacock it's hbo. Max and that's because a win doing so they're still making those deals warner media is still licensing out its stuff and then just bringing it back and hoping people will sign up for it again when each when harry potter is back on service and on the other end it you can have what viacom. Cvs does which is if you open up. Netflix tweet this. If you that top she rows of the most popular content are vicompte. Cbs shows mtv shows. Nickelodeon central be is like the most popular shows on that flicks and viacom knows that so they can charge quite a bit if they wanted to. Do you want to carry stuff. Non-exclusive deal so we're still going to have it on. Cbs all access which has become paramount plus. But we're going to give this to you and we're gonna make a bunch of money that way so the thing that they're going to do is just start. Selling to other streamers disney stuff for hulu. Netflix needs a ton of stuff. Hbo max warnermedia's also purchasing things from viacom. So they're all still licensing their content. It's just going to different streamers at different times so this is be like a giant like media streaming ecosystem or they're just selling each other the same movies over and over and over again and that's how they make money so i think it already was but now it's harder to watch tv. That's what i'm getting out of this. It already was that thing. The thing is the most interesting thing to me. I had an exact tommy in this one. They were like a window. Suddenly something that if i go out for dinner people ask me about new. Used to be a thing where nobody else had of the entertainment and media industry cared about widowing. Who was like okay. Watch this movie. And then it's on dvd and then it ends up on hbo and like that. I am aware of it. Because i can see it but you didn't really notice if left. Hbo you're kind of like. Oh it's gone by a dvd now because everyone is so there's list every month from a dozen publications that are like here's what's coming at you max flex here's what's leading people are so much more invested in what they're paying every single month for they wanted to exactly what's on it and i think to an extent with that was that was applicable with tv. There were so many channels on the cable. Bundle that just like. I'll find some to watch. Which is what. Netflix does really well. There's like there's always something on netflix. You can find it. But it's becoming much harder for them to just get rid of harry potter or whatever or the batman movies because people are like. Hey i signed up for this thing because you promoted that you have this now you no longer have it And i want to know what's going on dairy fine to hear like my non media friends talk about window because it's like this is a boring thing. It's a very big deal like this is like when i say it's getting harder to watch. Tv that to me is the evidence that it's getting harder right because to figure out how to watch something you have to figure out where it is and then if you have even the slightest bit of curiosity of wife things appear and disappear and go away you will discover that win doing tests and it turns out. Most people have a lot of curiosity about why harry potter is no longer available. People want to know why the things they were watching suddenly disappeared. And so i just look at this and i look at the fact that i've i've youtube tv and it just got more expensive in the fight. With sinclair's the tennis channel went away. And like i'm just getting all these carriage dispute like emails. We talked about the fight between hbo and roku it feels like all we've done is moved. The entire mess of old tv onto newer devices was slightly different business models for a minute one glorious minute it seemed really easy to watch a bunch of stuff because there was all a net flicks and now it is radically harder. Yeah i mean like my most anticipated email. Every week is nielsen. Sends out their top ten ratings for the streaming for they have every street. Run the us Break it down by minutes and everyone was really excited when disney plus made it on finally with the delorean it's usually just netflix. And there was a period of time. Where you just open netflix. It had everything and what it's kind of proven is that in that time. France has never appeared on that list. Even though it's on hbo max and that was like well. We have friends. It's the most popular show on netflix. Therefore it will do well here and it's like we're going to run the exact same scenario when the office lease netflix's end of the month and it's finally on peacock and it's like known i shouldn't say no i would imagine. Very few people are rushing to sign up for peacock for figuring out what peacock is to watch the office. They'll either buy the dvd center on itunes. Download it or they wolf's pirated because why we're going to sign up for this other thing that they don't want that maybe is on the the aggregated a roku or or an amazon. It becomes so much more complicated that you end up just saying like. I'll just find something similar on netflix. And this is the argument against a newsreel service. That was now. It's called discovery plus where discovery which is a huge huge cable kind of collection of networks. It really is. It's very popular. They were like we're restricting service because we are very popular and the biggest argument against it is like but i can find a version. Ninety day. fiance's netflix's there is a version of it that someone is making and so basically use get to the point where it's like. Does your brand really matter enough to get people to sign up. Will you just find filler. So the thing here. That's interesting is the result of everybody launching their own streaming service means that power is going to start going back to the aggregate google tv apple. Tv and roku everybody is gonna eventually feel like. They need to be participated in search. That used to be thing. We're not gonna be in your search but now everyone's in the search and now it's going to be. Are you up to speed in their home screen and increasingly the companies. That make the smart. Tv's are going to have the power to pick winners and losers on these streaming services. If google tv and discovery get in a fight. I'm never gonna see out brown food network. Something something on the home screen. They're they're just gonna show me a some other cooking show. And i'm like i find that i'll just watch it on youtube. Or whatever yeah when they announce discovery plus they were like the press. Release was wrong connected. Tv isn't it very specifically did not mention names and then finally on an investor call after they were like we're in conversations with rotate media centers. Universal said it was just like they have the power there like we are in seventy million homes or me are the ones that are going to control what you're doing. And there's only two streamers that roku and at amazon apple and all of them like we really need you and it's not flexible netflix's the equivalent of Tv guide this point. You just have it. It works you like it and disney. And i think we can start seeing what dizzy next year when they have a new star wars and marvel thing every week and it's the thing that everyone is talking about. It's like well. That's what you need to generate you. Everyone has their franchises. But you gotta find a way to get to point or it's like it will find roku and i'm amazon. I need to have you on. Because if i don't people will go to google or by those devices so that they can watch hawkeye or whatever is coming out i just. We spent so much time talking about app stores and computers. And who's in control. And then you start looking at the tv industry and it's like this is the most gatekeeper ecosystem that has ever existed. Diener always talks about like the backroom deals. Keeping you away from your computer or forcing you. These and like everything in hollywood is a background deal because anyone just made like an open. Tv device plaques the ship in app to in it plex. No you can't run an app on plex. Okay with the nvidia. Shield is still an android tv or google. Whatever platform again now. The video shield is still like an android tv device with the google app store and like peacock is not going to let people side load weird code onto it right like even the most open devices that we can think of are still fully ensconced in ecosystems that are totally controlled by executives making deals not consumers running code and i wonder if this is going to break in any way what needs to happen is all that all that gatekeeper stuff needs to be like boxed in and kept in one space you have an open platform and then you have like a like a car like a cable car that you plug in. And that's where all the lockdown stuff goes. And then you're free you want on your actual bucks so i think this could work the saddest situation but like even this discovery thing. I think peter kafka had he had a tweet about it that just you know. This is the week that sell sore spot slack right and he was like netflix. Used to be discoveries biggest customer all those shows were the biggest hits on netflix. Netflix realized they could just make their own shark. Documentaries and now discovery is out in the cold with its own also rans streaming service like that is a remark like in a computer. We would say this third party accessory for your mac was really good and apple built in the. Us and like that company is dead now. I mean like related to my Argue distaste with every single original strong service ever The thing that a lot of these entertainment companies. Because they're entertained. Makeup news is they go. Well netflix our content people like our content. They will therefore sign out to watch our content and i think these companies are deeply. I speak about myself here. Consumer deeply downplaying. How lazy i. I don't want to sign up that. I so easy that the google tv came with absence solve and i was like. I don't know if. I want to put my password and throw this. I do that all the time. Like i don't have hulu. It's good but it's it's that thing where discovery after discovering kind of took off netflix. Yet people were still seeking it out in their netflix's never made anything that got to that level like food network or hgtv and they do have their stars but it's funny because what discovery was promoting its service like we have these stars people will come watch the stars and it's like you twitching went through the same issue. There were like. We'll go watch this person's like now if they're on youtube and someone leaves they'll just find someone else sometimes like they're just like i'm here. This is where i wanna be. It's rely no. I'm not gonna go anywhere else to try to financing when there's so much more content that i can just dive into And there are rare exceptions. I i really rare exceptions. Disney is again. Probably the biggest. Because it's like you can't find a star wars thing somewhere else. It's only on disney but discovery is like yeah. If you're big things are ninety day fiance's in giada goes to like italy or whatever it's like yeah. I can find that on netflix. And they're doing it at a speed. That is like astronomically faster than anyone else all right. Well i'm very excited. Wonder woman on christmas day to watch in my house. You gotta watch soul in your house. It's the thing we've always wanted wanted to have happen. It's happening what is soul. So is the new pixar. Movie comes out on christmas day so that baby does not need any more characters to latch onto. We got the patrol. We're good is only appropriate for small child isn't the set up like the guy dies like bang pixar movie. It's gonna be cute. It's gonna make you sad. It's going to have like adorable brightly colored characters also. I'm a little worried max. Sisu path like she loves the lion king but every time we foster died she throws her stuff line over the couch and starts cracking up. Start start throwing fos going along with the king. I share every time we have to take a break. We're gonna take a break that's happening. Here are some ads. Took this episode of the verge cast is brought to you by vast a global leader in cybersecurity trusted by over four hundred thirty five million users to keep them safe online since the beginning of twenty twenty. We've seen an increase of twenty percent in ransomware scams like phishing and with so much of our lives being lived through our devices right now. It's more important than ever to keep our digital selves safe. A vast premium security protects against the biggest online threats like viruses spoofed websites and ransomware avast offers security. That's tailored to fit your needs with options to protect multiple devices including smartphones. To keep you and your family safe with a vast you can feel safer private and more confident online to do what you wanna do in your connected life. Don't worry about viruses. Phishing attacks ransomware hacking attempts or cybercrime. Because a vast has your back learn more about a vast privacy security and performance products at a vast dot com. If you game you know settling into your battles station feels enlivening but gaming on year with intel core processors. It's more than that. It's a feeling you won't forget. It's where intentional design blurs the line between fantasy and reality. It's where your gear feels like an extension of you sometimes. It's so immersive so responsive you can't tell yourself from your machine if you're ready to feel one with your gear start gaming at alienware dot com featuring the alienware am fifteen. All right. we're back actually this all ties together. One of the things that is really interesting about asia is that it's part of. At and t. Julia interviewed on. Solvency was an executive as part of the aged. Hbo max launch. And he told us the issue. Max is exempt from. At and t.'s. data caps which is a big deal. Right i mean that is just part of the net neutrality conversation writ large but if you have an at and t. Phone and he'd go to stream wonder woman or you go to many of these other movies that are coming out and max it will not hit your data cap. You have rising phone. Max tries to these movies. It obviously will hit your data cap. Now there's an out. Which is that you know. Netflix can go pay. At and t. for sponsor data and it won't hit your data cap. I suspect netflix's will not do that. And also asia zone by. at paying themselves which is my favorite kind of accounting. But it's a big deal right. I mean this. Here's the moment where the pipes and the content are coming together. Eighteen thousand a service writer is cutting its content service a favorable deal the simplest way to express it as hbo. Max does not your data cap. Netflix does so. There's a cost difference now for eight hundred customers streaming each service that is all in the context of net neutrality. And what we now know is that. Sec chairman pie is stepping down in january twentieth. Which is inauguration day we expect biden will propose a new chair person of the fcc but the moves that are happening right now are that trump is proposing placement for pie nathan symington. He is the person who wrote the petition. To overturn two thirty at trump's behest so pie. who was for all of his money. Faults was very focused on internet access right. That's what that's what our fcc. Under the trump administration is mostly done is deregulate. Isp's because the thinking is with fewer regulations it will build more and better networks. I obviously have my disagreements with that but the focus on how should we build networks. And how do we incentivize the construction of networks. That's where the fcc has been. Symington comes in is pies. Replacement the focus of the sec mckenna. Kelley are great reporter wrote a profile. Brennan car be other republican. Fcc commissioner their focus is on regulating social media and speech on social media. So you've got car who's already talking about it a lot. You should remain profile him. It is very indicative of a lot of the thinking. Around a lot of the conservative thinking about how to regulate the internet and then symington who literally wrote the the petition to say the fcc should regulate twitter and facebook. It seems like he's gonna get confirmed as pies replacement so that's a huge shift. That also means you right now. At the end of the trump administration you'll end up with two democrats and two republicans and the potential of a republican senate not confirming by nomination as the chairman. So you'd have a deadlocked. Sec the can't do anything. I'm just putting this out there. I don't like not anymore analysis. It's just the current state of play but as we think about next year. At and t. Saint to its customers. You should stream our service. Which has all of these movies and won't hit your data cap versus net flicks. That's going to be a real conversation that any trial has always been a slow boil. And i just it's going to be at a simmer next year like temperature turned up. One more tick well and it's also like the the thing you mentioned about how we've been focusing on charity. At and t. And who has the pipes and who's paying to get access to the pipes and You know zero rating data and all of that very very focused on the networks but the the different bernau now's can be focused on social media networks and it'll be more focused on content instead of pipes which you know normally the way. We've been thinking about the sec. We haven't been thinking about it in that way but you know they have fine. Tv networks for the stuff that they find a lewd or vulgar they. They can jump in in different places where we don't traditionally think of the sec is jumping in and so if there's a bigger push to like shift its focus over there. That'll be weird and interesting to watch is one way to put it. But there's also the we shouldn't forget that they still have the remit over all the stuff that they just deregulated and like that doesn't mean eighteen going to like. They got permission to do some shenanigans. They've done some. they're probably gonna do some more. Yeah i think there's a real question about the future of what the focus is on if they're deadlocked if you know if symington gets confirmed he's going to be the next character that we think about it the sec. I'm kind of bug dizzy. Is i believe. I believe you have back to regular size mugs across the board but the question of whether they spent all the time focused on twitter and facebook instead of making broadband better faster. Cheaper is a big deal and i would say this one of our biggest stories the past week Comcast is going to impose data caps one point two terabytes on more than a dozen states over the next couple of months particularly northeastern for very populous. So a lot more data capture coming. We've seen comcast's also raising. Td prices next year. We've seen other providers charters spectrum the prices so at the beginning of the pandemic right. What do they do. They got rid of their data caps. They lord the prices they said you know if you have financial difficulties you'd have to pay and everyone. This is great. Why don't you do this the whole time. Because they were also regulate how well their networks are holding up where coming to a point where they're saying. Actually we're we're gonna we're gonna squeeze everybody a little bit more. And i think the argument is data. Caps is very deep. It's very technical but at the end of the day it does not cost them any more money to sell you anymore. Service right like it's just electrons. Hi my my my rudimentary understanding of electrons. And you're the engineer here. Is that sending you one. Extra electron does not cost thousands more dollars than the previous electron. That is that is correct because checking on a deep technical level. yes well. that's that's the story right. The networks we. They have shown this year that networks are very capable of absorbing the spike in demand. And now they're saying to be fair. We have to bring the cavs back and start charging more money and i think that combined with some of this content pipe merging stuff that we're seeing the net neutrality conversations. Going very loud. The fcc might be deadlocked and two of the four commissioners might be focused on how mad they are twitter for putting labels. Something's it's gonna it's gonna be a ride. I will say this doesn't appear to be happening. We have in our list wednesday night. Midnight trump is tweeting. Like i'm not going to pass the national defense authorization act that they pass every year unless it includes a repeal of section two thirty and then we all display paul mckenna was like oh crap. She had her day chasing it down. Not trump didn't win the election and so his political power is reduced. But that's worth at least one. Part of the republican party is at which is we should just eliminate two-thirty. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen. Ability passing through committee doesn't have it in there. But i br every week say again. Repealing to thirty is also joe biden stated position. So there's just a lot of noise to come in and how we think about dealers said every part of the network whether it's the pipes whether it's the the pipes or whether it's how the services moderate user content all of that is the heat's going to be up next year. That was enough of a speech from. We're gonna take another break in. And i want to tell us all about these central processors this episode of the virtuous brought to you by plaid building. Fintech app or service from the ground up. Plaid can help you get started with. Api your users can securely connect their bank accounts to your app in seconds over three thousand of some. The world's most popular fintech apps and services are already using platt in fact one four. Us adults have used plan to connect count to plaid powered app to pay back their roommate for last night's pizza save money and holiday shopping or take control their financial future with just a few lines of code. You can start building with plaid today. Visit planted dot com slash. Verge cast to learn more. This episode of decoder is brought to you by synchrony. Customers are spending more thoughtfully these days. If you them to choose your business you'll have to stand out. Synchrony can help. There are financial and technology solutions company. That partners with all types of companies and understands the challenges of run today they're financing and payment tools can help your customers get exactly what they need. So you can move your business forward. Visit synchrony dot com to learn more back. I'm gordon berg snapdragon eight. It is new snapdragon time. So we're we're jumping right ahead from from eight six five to eight eight eight sue you get that nice branding. Synergy shuttle pointed out that if you think about it this is actually the snapdragon zero because eight. Oh my god. I should say sherline. You did a good job. I think. Peter i'm mad at you for telling me that because you need a pun filter. Okay continue so a lot of ways. This is kind of just a very standard snapdragon update. Faster speeds better cameras more powerful. Hey i There are a couple of interesting interesting little little bits here. That kind of make this a little more interesting so first off. We are finally back to an integrated five g modem now for the last like two years the eight six five hundred five if you could get five g but you had to have a separate modem in the phone and last year was really weird. The main eight six five chip didn't have a modem at all like if you just put an eight six five in your phone could not connect to any cellular thing because qualcomm on its five g mandatory but not enough to put the modem in the phone in in the main chip so every five g every android five g iphone from last year has a separate modem chip in it which takes up more space and draws more power. so we're finally back to an integrated modem. It's a new modem. It's the x sixty. It does a couple things better. It's also five nanometer modem so it should be more power efficient Some numbers that like samsung. who's the one making. The chips says that five nanometer node is twenty percent better power efficiency. We have to actually see how that works out. Qualcomm's giving similar numbers but the net result is five g is now actually really finally integrated into all android flagships in the good way where it is not necessarily going to cause as big of a hit to your battery life and combined with new node and the other improvements and you know power efficiency. Cpu and gpo means that five g should be even less of a concern for three than it already is even millimeter wave. Hopefully and actually before we get off The modem we should point out that one of the features in this mode of that. They're really excited about is carrier aggregation carrier asian. Yes we we should talk about a little bit because in theory depending how it goes and what the networks do this could be one of the ways that five g goes from like why is slower than lt to actually being pretty good and it's also maybe some related to will rise in specifically but other carriers fear out a way to deal with not having all the spectrum. They could possibly want to light up all their five g networks. Yeah so one of the big things here is that qualcomm is starting to do sub six gigahertz carry agregation which means that the sub six gigahertz those wider bands of five g that have the slower speeds are able to connect to more chunks of spectrum at the same time to have faster data per user It's a technique that we've actually seen a lot in recent years on e. things when you know older ones that were only on lt. Go back rations. Iphones a couple of generations of samsung phones. Stuff started was already using this. this was. at and t.'s. Five g e stuff all that a lot of that was built in characterization so we're finally bringing some of those improvements more to five g which will be good but again this. This is the thing that's sort of the theme with a lot of stuff. Qualcomm is laying the groundwork here and it's really up to the device manufacturers and the carriers to follow through for example the new snapdragon eight eight eight is in theory capable of download speeds up to seven and a half gigabits per second. You will never see that on any smartphone in two thousand twenty year. Just not but it's nice to think that it might be possible and also when you raise that ceiling it does help make speeds better even if you're not getting the maximum speed. That was true on three to four g fourteen year. It'll be five g so that's part of it. The other thing is a new updated. Cpu updated gpu. One of the interesting things here is that qualcomm is using arm had introduced earlier this year. It's new cortex x one core. Now the way qualcomm's chips the big chips. The flagship ships are typically set up as a one three four set up so it has one really big main. Cpu three also big not as big. You know power cores and then four efficiency course now usually the top four cores are all the same product is usually one of the sorry one of the cortex arm cores. This year though they're using arm introduced this earlier this year. It's the arm cortex x one which it promises to provide up to thirty percent better peak performance efficiency than last year's big core so it's got like an extra juice core which should help for performance and they're also promising a let me get the exact number thirty five percent jump and gpu performance. Which i'll come says is the biggest jump in gp performances ever done so they will be faster the other two big areas and this is traditional for qualcomm. But there's a couple of interesting things here in particular are cameras and so we'll start with cameras. Where the most interesting thing is that. The new spectra eight fifty. Isp is now a triple isp so it can in theory capture three simultaneous still images or video streams at once. So what you could do with this. If you have a phone with an ultra wide awake. The telephoto camera with one press the shudder. You could capture still from all three of those lines is at you know those different perspectives. Which is kind of cool. You can also capture three simultaneous four k. Hdr video streams at the same time. Which i don't know why you would need to do that. Oh you Apple was the really high on this idea for iphones where you shoot with all three lengths at the same time and then you can switch between them as you know in post so you just like you set up the camera you shoot all three lenses and then you can change the scene without having to move the camera because you've got three lenses shooting the same scene at the same time all right. Well that's that is a good reason for it. I tell you what if you're using. You're planning on using a smartphone to capture three simultaneous four k. Hdr video streams is a message me on twitter. And send me. Send me your edited video. And how this is improve your workflow. I'm would love to hear more about this. I'm very excited so sticking with the camera for just a second Actually we should talk with a gp a little bit more but anyway The thing that's interesting when you look at what they do that's triple. Isp's it's they've got a new like specific night mode thing they have got you know just like a bunch of stuff where you just look back at like the flagship camera features of the past couple years and qualcomm saying everyone's doing that stuff in their flagship phones. They've done it themselves. Just building it into the chip. Now which is kind of a regular cycle of how qualcomm goes with android phones so the thing that was like nightside night photography it was like oh my god. How did you figure this out. This is incredible is now just going to be commodified. Kamata ties across any android phone. That wants it because it's just built into the chip. Yeah so. I mean the big the big. The big part of that is it's any android phone that wants it. Qualcomm sets these up but manufacturers have to support it and that's not always the case like this the phones with a snapdragon eight can for example. Shoot one hundred and twenty photos at ten megapixels and one second but you're manufacturer lender resolution and needs to you know build into their phone and their software to offer that as a feature you. Can you know ten bit color in. Hcf but the manufacturers have to decide whether that is a feature they want to offer but yet the fact that they're building on native level is a thing that we've seen it's a thing with no previous isp upgrades allowed you know double cameras. Which soon became you know. Standard triple cameras. And it's sort of a rising tide lifts all boats that when qualcomm raises the floor here. It gives manufacturers more room to do more interesting things with the ceiling. Yeah but i mean the the big open question here especially maybe with the gpu is apple chips right. This is really really a big deal for like computers. Now because qualcomm they worked with microsoft s s q two. They've got the you know they're they're going to keep working on that when you compare android phones to iphones and there for qualcomm chips to the fourteen line of chips. A fifteen whatever -biotics Yeah okay it seems like it's faster but it doesn't matter because like at the has different ramp properties on the iphone android and the way that android os works. There's a whole lot of extra crofton there and so the reason the animation. sloan like. you can't be that mad at the chip blah blah blah blah. but like. I think we're pretty. It's getting really clear that. I don't know if i'm saying. Qualcomm is bad making chips. But it's more that making a chip that needs to work for the entire android ecosystem and needs to be platform is in fact the cliche. That apple gets to control the whole vertical stack of therefore for. They can like make something. That's faster better for their specific purpose. I think it's becoming clearer. And so there's a bunch of numbers on this eight eighty eight and i'm really curious to see what it does. A really curious to see what it does for battery life in particular with these five nanometer processes with faster graphics and all that stuff but the like the apples. Two androids comparison. I think is going get a little bit sharper because people are gonna be able to do it not just on phones but also now on our laptops i mean look in terms of raw power with you know. The clock speeds in the and the percentage. Gpu improvement. i mean. We'll have to wait to get the device and people will benchmark them and all that but like in terms of raw power like this. Gpu might be better on paper than the ones in apple stuff but apple does have that intrinsic advantage is the thing that like you said. It was very clear. like apples. instruction set for mac. Os is designed specifically to run on you know the m one and that's an advantage that apple has intrinsically that it can do because it is doing all those things which qualcomm can i. Can i ask you a really dumb question about that. I've heard that argument. And i was just on the talk. Show junkie were and we. We talked about that a little bit as well. Snapdragon chips run and cell phones that run android another operating system. There's barely even another use case. They run on windows two while sure. But like a tiny tiny sliver over there of windows Like the biggest market is smartphones running android. Which is effectively run by one single company. I understand it's open source. So the i'd put that caveat in there is there some reason that the android team hasn't called qualcomm and said. Just make your chips better. Running our code like i on paper in the abstract. This makes sense right. Qualcomm is making a general purpose processor that needs to do a bunch of things and just one client operating system that runs on their on their chips. And so you can't optimize it. This is apple. Everyone says that and it makes totally intuitive sense in austria but here in reality there too much sugar in their is in a competitor smartphone operating system from a plucky upstart with great ideas about the web. There is not another category of devices. That really run snapdragon ships. It's just the thing what is preventing them from coming to that level of optimization and alignment. i'm sure they talk like there's no question that even another smartphone chip vendor mediatek well real vendor. There's the exodus in the us. I do not think for their next sites but like here in the united states. there's one vendor. Yeah anyway keep going. No so i think they do but like andrew needs to work on those other chips as well and it's just it's the difference between maybe the pandemic. It's the difference between having to walk down the hall to be like. Hey i have an idea. Let's do this thing. And like can you put the extra little instruction senator chip and setting up a meeting with ten people and then having to go she asian over video conference and then driving down to the campus or flying over there to like talk about a little bit further. Da da da like being the same company just makes it a little bit more efficient. I think part of it is also qualcomm. Isn't the one designing this stuff. It's arm so google is a game of telephone right. Qualcomm is taking the cores. That arm is making and building. It's chip around. Those and then google is building its thing on top of on top of qualcomm and there's a manufacturer intermediary like it's it's not as straightforward as google. Just calls up. Qualcomm is like make our stuff work better. It's gone up qualcomm. Welcome calls up arms like make chorus for a lot of things like it's just the raw the raw parts. So i think it's a little a little more involved than than just simple a simple fix there. I said it was a dumb question senate from the start. I think it's important to like. Bring it to reality from time to time and say actually the sort of abstract explanation in reality. It doesn't quite line up. That way. And i wonder you know it was qualcomm's a. The they had their big summit this week. That's eight eight eight. It was announced in just basically in this but they events not even a whiff of anxiety about the one right. The context of them announcing new chip is everyone just went insane over the one. And then you max we're saying it's an inflection point. Four computers writ large. Apple's way ahead on this curve intel's in the corner crying and qualcomm. Well what else are you going to do any weight. And i feel like that's just an important series of questions for them to answer can they. Can they meet that performance or are they just gonna apple. Run away with it. And they'll be sure the dominant provider there are more android phones in the world than anything else. But i'm sure microsoft is like hey we can't let everyone does in the world be slower at every price point compared to the apple computer that that can't be the outcome microsoft wants and i think that's an important problem for intel is a growing problem for holcombe. Yeah it's funny so the the phone versus laptop thing is interesting because fundamentally however fascinate eighty s. We're just assuming it won't be faster necessarily that iphone but it's always like the story has been the same like if you look at the raw power in the chip. It is kind of irrelevant to the operation of phone Because android and ios in there like the work different. They feel different and blah blah with laptops. It feels like you can make more one to one comparison but that story isn't quite right because there is no some people do compare qualcomm phone. Sex knows phones directly. There are chips In theory google's white chapel might come out this year on a pixel and they might just do the thing instead of having a little chip off to the side. That does something small. They actually produce the main ship themselves. Then we'll have another thing to directly compare against qualcomm so it feels like qualcomm has been in this place where the dominant maker of chips for phones Especially in the us The and there's like nothing to directly. Compare them against for people's actual experience of what matters from a chip on a device like they just no one directly comparing them to stuff on a mass scale and so the question is with 'em one being directly compared to whatever arm windows are if in fact. Google does away chapel chip. I don't think samsung is going to make a big push an accident this year but there is a chance that for the first time in a while. There's going to be Pardon the pun apples apples comparison for qualcomm snapdragon ships Because we haven't really had that for a while like at a scale that mattered anyway. Yeah i mean that's also part of it they just haven't had to compete like you know l. g. and samsung are still buying qualcomm. There's no other game in town to go to so then they don't really need to bow to anyone and make make it work better on their end. It's we're gonna make what we we're gonna make what we make. Then you know work with what you have or go somewhere else and it turns out. There's not a lot of other places to go is always. The theme of our show comes back to competition like the top of our show. Is julie being the competition. Tv services is nuts and it's bad in the bottom or show is very little competition ships and it's bad if you are an economist that can work out the ideal amount of competition. Please let us as always by the way. Thank you i was gonna say we're way over time and that reminded me to say Thank you to everyone. Who's been tweeting. Us spotify charts theater. I've just been smiling. The number of people who've listened to like sixty five hundred hours of the verge cast over the past year So that's been great. That leads me to say we're overtime at samsung next week. Now i want to do do You had a good point which is samsung released. A lot of good phones this here and they kind of got washed washed out so remember the galaxy s twenty the last event before the pandemic. And how all year the galaxy s twenty like all variants have just been quietly great five g phones and all of the five jeep since then has been like for the other phones into still still here still good they just put out when you i eleven four. It took them three months which isn't great but it's better Does a rumor that they're going to drop the note line. I've midi emotions about that but we're over time but stay tuned for more emotions about that At some point in the near future. I just think is like quietly making pretty good stuff. I'm not quietly but they're making pretty good stuff like not in the conversation. I would in a way that would have expected them to because it's no longer apple versus samsung. Oh my god. The new galaxy buds are coming. Apparently the rumored in they're gonna have noise cancellation. They're going to be shaped like lozenges instead of beans. I guess i'm not gonna acknowledges product until they call them the galaxy and they're not being shaped anymore but these are shaped so so they can be buds again. They have had the best all-round earbuds that aren't airpods for two years running. basically what. The galaxy buds buds plus a great. They're still my go-to headphones They're going to put. Active noise cancellation emmett. They're going to be good. If you got the beans which are an interesting new kind of product They just like they've got a line of three to four different wireless earbuds that are like really solid. And i don't know one. They're not a cultural thing anymore. So samsung is making its best phones. Ever but their cultural relevance has sort of disappeared or at least gone down. I think that's really fascinating. Yeah maybe it's because they can't do the events they gotta bring back next year. They're going to bring back the broadway plays they gotta they gotta bring back the splashy super bowl commercials. I know we're doing like year round ups. they're mostly they're largely entertainment focus. We should do an end-of-year ranking everyone's weird. Pandemic infomercials ou. Two zero auto weird pandemic infomercials the most heartfelt pitch the. I just keep picturing. He was actually dude with the lights. Signs which i mean they tried. They tried to really good it just. It's too expensive. It's wildly expensive also. No one's going anywhere. Well if you buy the flashy flippy phone. Yeah and you're just like. Can i get that zoom call with you. I gotta show you myself. Maybe you and. I walked in on that. Yeah not as not as good of a sales For other people i will. I will promote something. We are working very hard and getting the president of qualcomm to do verge cast interview meter. I'm going to need to take copious notes for conversation with you for that. Hopefully that's kind of next week. We're trying to work out some timing some excited about that. You can tweet at us. Heim is see garten berg. Julia is loudmouth julia dealers back on. I'm at reckless. We've put out a number of twitter calls to action on the show. I believe everything from economists to struggling filmmakers recording three streams video once. Just tweet us. We love hearing from you again. Thank everybody who tweeted us. Decoder is out on tuesday this week. We've got an interview with subjects ceo. Chris best. I'm very excited. This subset of is very interesting. Talk to him that is. We're not running decoder and the verge feed anymore so if you're interested go subscribe to decoder every podcasts and we're back next friday with russia that's it where a mask.

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Julia Alexander says YouTube makes everything more extreme

The Vergecast

33:58 min | 2 years ago

Julia Alexander says YouTube makes everything more extreme

"This episode I brought to you by betterment if you're not someone who settled for average gadgets and consumer tech, why would you settle for an average investing tool? Now, there's a smarter way to manage your money. Betterment betterman is online financial advisor for people who refused to sell average, these cutting edge technology, Bill personalized portfolios. Now, if you make more from your investments, then the guide you along the way with advice you make smart financial decisions. All this one, low transparent fee so plan for retirement, reach your financial goals. Make the most of your money. Don't settle for investing demand better. Fetterman outsmart average investing involves risk averse has listeners one year managed free by visiting betterment dot com. Slash version that's betterment dot com. Slash everybody from the first cast on this week's interview upset. We're doing something a little bit different. We just hired a great new report. Her name is Julie. Alexander. She was at Pauley on before sister site. She is maybe the best YouTube reporter out there. She has been covering YouTubers twitch. Streamers, other influencers, doing a great job. Polygon casually started doing it because of the rise of game streaming. But it turns out that's a whole big story in. So she jumped over to the verge says she can expand that. Beep cover more about what you two is where it's going. The relationship between YouTube and the creator community between YouTube, the rest of the internet. It is incredibly interesting. It is the future of pot of our media to be honest. And I think Julia understands it basically better than anyone else. I'm super excited. She's covering that for us at the verge now, and I brought it on the show just to talk about the state of YouTube. So check this out. Super interesting. All right, Julia, zander's here. Hello, Julie. Hello. So Juliette, you are the newest reporter at the verge? Yes. And we hired you, this is true. We hide you from on because I love to ruthlessly poach from our sister site polygon although they did recently poached from us. So it's fun. It's just trading. We just trade every once in a while. You came to polygon started covering streaming platforms. Yeah, YouTube twitch. And then that expanded radically into, hey, there's a bunch of people making stuff on the internet and their interactions with these platforms are really surprising. And I really wanted you to come to the verge expand that probably on gaming site. Expand that beyond just getting everything else that's happening. So I wanted to talk to you today about YouTube. I think you might know more about how YouTube operates with the people on it and as a business than anybody else. I know. So just give me the one like quick overview of what's going on with you too, because it seems more controversial more problem oriented than most people might suspect it think. The interesting thing with YouTube is that people are paying attention to it. So I think these issues of always been there, especially with creators doing ludicrous things that's been going on since the dawn of YouTube, but suddenly because of disturbing children's content and the alt-right being on YouTube and kind of YouTube terrible recommendation algorithm and the radicalization. You've got a lot of people paying attention to it. And I think you to wasn't aware that this many people were suddenly paying attention to them or their creators. So they're trying to figure out how to put on a good PR face while fixing their platform. Well, quote, unquote, fixing their platform, what's broken with the platform. So the number one issue I think is what we've seen in conversation while as the recommendation algorithm, it's radicalizing so many people. I spoke to a lot of kids, for example, who came up through gamer gate. There were like thirteen fourteen when gamer gate. I happened in like twenty fourteen who are now eighteen nineteen and they were saying YouTube. Is the main reason that they believe loss of. They believed because they would watch video from like someone like Sargon, and that would give them recommendations into this whole era of people or area. People rather disturbing. And it's just opinions mytalk high school teachers a lot. And it's like the kids that we talked to. They just use you to infer news. They're getting really bad sources to backup their opinions. So I think that's the most disturbing part of you to in. It's not swing. They know how to fix. It's not something it's they're interested in fixing. It's just not something they're capable fixing. I think that's a Google problem, not just a u two problem whether you think they're not capable of fixing, I think you've been trying some things, right? They're doing things in different ways. I think the Wikipedia links there now adding or adorable, and their way through moon landing happened. I remember I won't. I won't name names at CS one year end of the day long day, everyone's having a drink, and I just remember suddenly the conversation became about whether or nine eleven was an inside job is like he do. What are you talking like? I, I was an adult when that happened. That was one hundred percent real. I promise you in every journalist in America would be chasing that story forever if it hadn't yet. But he's like, while I watch YouTube videos and I just remember thinking to myself, oh, this is like a lot. There is a moment with kyri Kyrie Irving. He's on stage somewhere and they brought up the fact that Kyrie believe the earth was flat and he very explicitly said, I was watching him on YouTube videos, and I got into this whole and it's like, yeah, you too. It's super easy to find something in. It starts off really fun with like, oh, is the moon landing? Real gonna watch conspiracy, but you. But that quickly becomes topics that aren't as ludicrous that are even scarier. See us keywords like liberals feminism or. Or conservatives. And it gets into scary territory where people have spent twenty spend a day, formulating a very well put twenty minute argument that is based on bad faith and it travels well and then spreads to Twitter threats to Instagram. And it's like this cross promotional thing. And I don't think YouTube knows how to stop people from gaming their system which is upsetting. And that's the conversation with creators a lot where they out. Thank you to all the time abusive tags abuse of metadata is something that websites are aware of, and YouTube doesn't know to fix it. And it's like the most blatant issue that is facing a lot of creators is like they'd just put in however many tags they want. You could put Google or Android into a YouTube search and you're going to get far right conspiracy theories. Yeah, because people just realize that you're searching for enjoying the game that previously, it's funny because on main Google search, they know about the issue games. Yeah, in YouTube is the second biggest. Search engine in the world may appear not to and owned by Google. It's funny joke I kept using was that up until eighteen months ago, Google forgot YouTube existed. And then suddenly they were like, oh, there's a lot of problems with YouTube. And then on one end, you've got the platform in how people interact with the platform, which is an issue in that's kind of the radicalization. And on the other end, you've got creators who are building these kind of para social relationships with people where you find the word pair, social socialists, very intimate one-sided relationships. The best example that you can use for a certain audiences. Soap operas were always the go-to because you watched it every day. You felt like you really got to know these characters and that a relationship with them. It's something that they explored on friends actually a lot. So take that idea of your favorite TV show your favorite character in this connection you have with them times it by a million and you're barely scratching the surface of what kids feel like when they connect with you to creators. 'cause it's, you wash their YouTube video. Then you're washing their Instagram story. You're seeing their tweets, you're paying for snapshots, which is a huge thing on you. You're paying eighty dollars to get a personalized message, and it's this connection that people have in. So that's the other side of it work you to also doesn't understand just how immensely important these craters are in people's lives and and they don't know how to reckon with the fact that a lot of their creators aren't great role model figuring out how to promote them, but how not to promote them. So you said something really interesting there. That to me feels like the heart of the creator dilemma. You call them. Their creators is the YouTube is a countable to them or they are accountable to you too. And that seems to be like the breaking point right there just using a platform and doing whatever they don't actually have any obligation to YouTube to stay there. Yeah. And I think that would be fine if every December every every December YouTube didn't put out there annual rewind which was what they sell to advertisers, it's what they give advertisers to be like, here's what our platform is up until last year. Are you didn't see anyone famous Lashley really, finally included like Stephen Colbert, but it was always creators. I mean, last year they included Logan and Jake Paul, it was always creators that they sold that they were showing advertisers, hey, here's what we do. Here's what we can offer you. And I think at that point when you're actively working with creators to sell things to advertisers and sell themselves advertisers, you are taking some ownership over the fact that they are on your platform. I think a really interesting conversation that happens a lot with like ownership of certain people is the twitch. First YouTube dilemma where twitch wants -clusive Lee, YouTube wants exclusivity, and if you're offering someone a higher percentage of Google preferred ads which are top tier ads for you to if you're offering someone incentives, you do have a relationship with them and you are asking them to stay with you and work with you on something. We're going to offer you a YouTube premium show like LIZA Koshi, for example, and it's very much like she's a YouTube product self. And I think it's interesting. When something like Logan, Paul happens YouTube like, oh, well, we don't have control over what they do, and which is true, but you're also using their faces and their views and their channels to sell advertisements or to get advertisements. And it's insane to see how quickly they go from. We don't represent our creators to our creators, absolutely represent our platform Broberg Kinko who's the head of YouTube? Susan's. Like wrote a book. Yeah, he was very proud of being like, look at all the great all a great things that YouTube is enabled right? And you read it and he's very clearly picked. I mean, he picked right creators. I can't. Green is in there like sheriff. Here are the people that YouTube wants to hold out and so much very positive role models. And there's a dark side to that which they kind of studiously ignore in then when they're chosen few do something wrong, they tend to run in the other direction. Yeah, the joke that I have ongoing, which 'cause I don't think it would ever happen. But like if Casey nice ever did something, YouTube would just not know what to do because he's like the godfather of YouTube. At this point. When I was at Polycom, we were figuring out how to cover YouTube and December thirty. First, I was getting ready to go out for new years and I got an push notification for Logans video from watching. I'm like, that's a dead body pre shirts, dead body emailed you to PR and they're like, oh yeah, we'll maybe we'll look into it. Got you in France, and they're like, oh, well, it's not New Year's Eve. And then two days later, like Aaron, Paul tweeted about it and became whole thing. It was a situation where I was like, Robert Kinkel likes to talk a lot about how you doesn't want to incentivize certain things. When YouTube algorithm does the complete opposite. So you get conversations about burnout and people feeling if you have to upload everyday people feeling like they have to compete for ads creators refer to ads as limited resources. Now there's not enough ads for everyone sleet compete for them. It means they have to do further. I can't confirm it, but there's been a lot of creators who were like Azra limited resource that being said, there seems to be as videos that I watch. So I'm not sure. I feel like you watch a lot of videos. Haven't reached the end. Haven't reached the end of the advertising, and I don't use YouTube red or premium because I need to know if there's at home. Oh, how do you suffer for your art. A lot of that stuff as fast as like. BSO. I think it's interesting because creators constantly feel like now more than ever that they are competing gainst YouTube in order to profit off YouTube in they're competing with kids coming in from new platforms like vine, all the vine kids went to you to invite shut down and they brought over with the millions of subscribers that's like your David Dobrica. Paul's the next one will be tick tock which is big out and wants to talk become passe people move over to YouTube. It's monetize -able. So this feels like a big trend that YouTube hasn't really contended with other social platform. Start social video platform start. They burn bright and then they failed because honestly, they cannot extract advertising dollars because YouTube has them all. Yeah, I'm sure we're Chessel no, but Facebook and Google control like eighty five ninety percent of the digital ad money that exists in the world. There's duopoly. So you start a vine or Ta-talk or musically. And you have to come up with some way to make money that isn't ads because you can't peel snapshot has this snapshot is a big platform that can't make money because they haven't figured out how to steal add money away from Facebook, Google. So YouTube Polaris Lee has this problem where competitor start, people get famous, the competitor's fail and the people flood on the YouTube apart from vine which they seem to be like, Yep, you're videos can be longer net like same idea, just longer apart from buying. They haven't really figured out how to do that. Well, it doesn't seem like how to bring other communities onto their community in have the same set of values. Yeah, and I think the only reason that vine, the vine creators referred to as the vine invasion. The reason I think the by invasion went as well as it did for a lot of people was it's hard to monetize buying because bads, but it's also hard. It was hard for creators who were getting like agents through vine to continue living in LA and continue doing what they were doing, but just being on vine. So they went to YouTube and suddenly they are recording. Dogs with Will Smith, and they're getting Nike ads and it's like they're making law oughta money around the same time. You see a bunch of vine kids realize we can all live in a big house together and just log together and create content twenty four, seven, and make a lot of money. So you see this kind of huge explosion of light vlag squads, which is happening in LA all the time more. So in LA the New York, there's a really big difference in the New York and LA log scenes. And I think that's particularly interesting, but LA it's a lot of twenty year olds who like dropped out of college and high school and a fulltime YouTubers. Now, I think tick talk musically rolled into tick tock. It's interesting because when I went to vid con and Tennakon which was failed with did not go, well, it was you go to. I went to a hotel. I went to hotel. I went, I was. The lobby of. Probably got kicked out. We, there's all these take talking event that doesn't happen. Sorry, there's a all these musically. Kids were there and he's musically kids, thirteen fourteen and talking about how their parents moved them out. Tell lay and trying to get into YouTube and how you to the next step, or a lot of them are just like, well, we'll go to twitch. Twitch has this like actual subscribers and they're like, well, we can just stream for ten hours. And so you see this a lot with different platforms where they start off somewhere and they built in audience. But the goal is to move to you too, because it's the only way to get money really. And now that's loud even twitch. People are really intimidated by twitch and I totally understand why I live streamed before, and I hated it talking for eight hours and interacting with people is insane. It's exhausting. It's difficult if you're playing a game to keep that going. I get someone like ninja a lot of credit Caesar, good gaming. These also very good, entertaining, and twitch. Twitch is lake fraternity. Twitches community. If you're not. In it. It's really hard to break into it because there's like a whole secret language handshake. The understand more as YouTube. You can look out if you've got not maybe of an audience, something goes by roll, your your clapping with someone else. Like there's a way to kind of break in and form a community around yourself. So I think if you can make it on twitch, having subscribers is better because it's direct money coming in to that, you know, you're gonna get versus YouTube, you're relying on that sense. And that differs especially if there's a demonitization monetization wave which we've seen. But YouTube is kind of like it's still the golden platform become a YouTube star. And now that like Will Smith is on Reese Witherspoon saw like it's just the next that in-between wave of Hollywood. Brought to you betterment. They've got an advertiser segment for you to listen to check this out right now ten years ago, the great recession sent shockwaves through the global economy and in that uncertain economic environment, consumers regret with fear and doubt two thousand eight. It was, you know, the great recession, people in general, had lost trust in the incumbents. And I thought there really ought to be an obvious best answer to the question. What should I do with my money? But there wasn't. That's John Stein CEO of the financial services company betterment which he founded because he felt the economic industry was failing the average investor. 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You target your customers with precision down to job title, company name industry to redeem a free one hundred dollars Lincoln ad credit and launch your first campaign going to link dot com slash verge. That's Lincoln dot com. Slash verge for free one hundred ad credit terms and conditions apply. Right now it seems like the the to shield can choose from our YouTube into it. Yeah, I don't wanna call conventional wisdom. It's like a enduring myth is that well of the platform will fail and they'll be an next platform, right? Right. France fail, then my face will fail, then Facebook arise, then Facebook will fail and or film opera seal failed comes first, whatever, whatever the five, four hundred Agassi will will move right along. But this is like a thing we talk about all the time there'll be windows and then there's going to be eyeless, Android nation, be something else. It seems like you almost want to apply that to you to you. Wanna say, well, YouTube is messy. It's got all these great people. They're not in love with it. We actually had Casey nice dot on this podcast earlier this year, and he spent most of the time talking to each and twitch. Yeah. And so you have this feeling here's much people there on YouTube. They love you to have this relationship with YouTube. They don't actually have a very personal relationship with the company. They don't seem very handled by. You know, there's not like an army of sort of like suit guys being like they great. You know. Great. Thank you know they don't have like a personal connection to this company. It's just a platform that they run that is kind of mysterious. So it always shows like, well, they'll just all gonna leave, but there's is there somewhere to go down, doesn't even exist. The number one thing to creators to talk about is why they hate YouTube does so well, all those videos do so incredibly well yet. I think that's the thing, right? My favorite person talked about this. Another godfather of YouTube is full to Franco into Franco. We'll talk about this over and over again and he'll say, there is nowhere else to go like as much as we hate YouTube. No one else has figured out advertising, like you said, right? Google so much of it. No one else has figured out the audience is which is huge. No one else has figured out how to actually directly pay creators in the way that is sustainable, which is another big deal. The thing that we, I'm beginning to see more of, and I think it says more about our political climate over the last two years. But especially over the last four years, if you consider gamer gate turning point for a lot of stuff. Is you'll see block chain type video sites opening up. So like bit shoot will run and bit. You basically saying, hey, come to us. We don't do censorship. We don't all this kind of very keyword stuff freedom. And so you'll see a lot of people on YouTube kind of tell their audience to go there and watch their videos there, and then they can use like digital wallets to pay for stuff, but they're still uploading videos on YouTube because they're still getting most of their hundreds of thousands millions of us from you to in that still works out to be a decent amount of money depending on your CPM with YouTube, depending on who you are, you've got really, really, really great and you can live off at sense, independent type of topics you cover. You've got to expand someone. We felt different guy who talks about war in the Middle East gets democratized every single day because advertisers get to choose what they want to put their ads on and sensitive content includes news a lot of the time. So people talk about news often get dinged by democratization issues, which is upsetting. So he he's got like nine other ventures that he has. He's got rogue Rocco, which is this company and he's working on making sure that he has his income coming in from different places because he can't rely on YouTube and he arguably one of the biggest creators in the platform. But then you've got someone like a David dope brick who every time he makes video. There's two or three million views of the a couple of hours in a day I should say, and he's doing pretty well on just add sense and like sponsorships through seatgeek. Let's it seems like all these trainers are actually running a business of their own. Yeah, the relies on YouTube managing an advertising business over there that they have no visibility into. And that to me is a guy who like built a media business here, and I don't even have visibility. Like I, I'm, I think we have a good CEO like trust that guy, and I think we have a decent sales team like your great. You just you just stay over there? No bother us like, but I would never say you should. You should build a business where another giant. Company can literally just turn off your body whenever they want. And so I think everybody figured that out kind of intuitively and so they're doing branded content. They're doing these weird merch deals. It's interesting because sometimes that blows up, right. I mean, like the better help controversy which just happened with a lot of creators was a huge explained that one, so, but our help is a mental health app or mental wellness app. And the idea is that you sign up, you pay like two hundred sixty dollars a month, and you get access to a therapist every week and their terms of service which got into legal lease issues with like they couldn't promise that people were licensed. It became this whole issue about YouTubers selling a mental health app and using their own stories which many people thought were like fabricated because of a sponsorship deals. There'd be created this distrust between people who watched the videos and the creators. And if you lose that trust, you're done like, that's what people you need that trust. And so what we're seeing now for the first time in a long time is sponsorships becoming. More frowned upon the usual the YouTube audience is aware that sponsorship tap to happen to get that YouTubers need to make money to a huge talking point in the community, but there's certain sponsorships now that people are like, I'm not gonna watch your videos a fuse company because I don't like the way that you are selling a product. The other interesting thing that's happening that I talked to my friend in Atlantic writer tailored Lauren's about a lot is that more than ever. It's kids and teenagers are learning that they can monetize their hobbies, not faster than I did. I wish I knew in high school. I could monetize things instead of working like a record store. But you have these one of my favorite. YouTube creators girl named Emma Chamberlain. She's seventeen. She dropped out of high school and shoes. Sixteen move to LA and sheep how to run a company very quickly and like figured out how to separate what she does sponsorships and her YouTube channel and working with agencies and you'd hear them talk about it these like sixteen seventeen year olds. And they're like, Nope, I understand how I have to run my business on YouTube and how You Tube is just a platform for me to pick up an audience. They understand the importance of like collaborating with other people and the importance of like market share stuff, and it's wild to hear them talk about it because when people think of YouTube creators just think people sitting in front of a camera and talking and it's become just a huge, huge, huge factory for turning out people who are just as big as media executives. I like actual media executives. So this is really, you obviously know far more YouTubers than I do. But I know if you and I always think of it as the darkness, there's the person you mean. And there are often lovely people and they hang out and what do I do? You know, talk shit about cameras with them like I can do like that's like an easy way to make friends than eat Uber for me. And then there's sort of like YouTube persona, which is often that same persona just like turned up a few notches and much louder. They're all yelling now. And then there's what I think is the darkness which is there's like a ruthless business person just waiting to talk to you about CPM's and branded content deals and how they grow the channel to a certain size, the unlock another category of business deal that they can do. I understand it. But again, we work at a media company that we helped start. So I see it, but we are insulated from it because we make journalism at no point is like our revenue tied the same thing. And so I'm like, I can't tell if I should be extraordinarily impressed because this is a whole set of skills that I just don't have and was. Ever asked to to build or if I should just be terrified that like another twenty two year old I'm hanging out with is basically the world's Smith Roussel ruthless media executives. And it's, I think it's good or bad. I just always think of it is dark. The craziest thing to sunny bring that up. When I think about the fact that like I care to know about what a company's revenue is or like how they're using certain things to increase page views. It's such a New York media subject like, oh, no, one else cares about this other than other journalists on YouTube, the audiences care so much about like CPM in like social blade, statistics, social tracks in, it's basically to analyst from it because it's in every video, like its creators are very open about when they're getting paid when they're not getting paid, how they're getting paid, how much other people are getting paid. So one of the big topics with like Logan, Paul, when it popped off with all these you to careers talking out his CPM Google preferred, what this man is sponsored like. And you've got these fourteen year olds commenting, and they understand what's going on and look, I wouldn't have given a crap, but I was fourteen about house was getting paid. And so it's so interesting because YouTube is its own little insular world where everyone understands the lingo of the company and the business model, and it's just a ongoing daily conversation with like everyone's open about their CPM. Everyone's open about their deals or sponsorships. They all work with each other on it, and it's weird to see happen because unlike journalists, talking other journalists about how their companies are doing, it's like a YouTube clear talking to millions of people about their their about their media strategy, and there's like an active conversation going on about it. So there's a part of me. I tend to be an Optimus against fan. Best instincts, but there's a part of me and says, this is actually great, right? Like we're, here's an entire generation of extremely savvy media creators in media consumers who understand how the money were, and that's great and creators, particularly the ones who are really opened about money, are there being transparent. So that's good. And then I'm like, that stuff gets imputed to everyone else. So we run two YouTube channels probably on runs a big channel, and that's not how are you works at all? Like not even a little bit because of, you know, our aspirations to feature. In. So that to me is really like that's a, it's a dark side. And then I think I'm just old and I'm like, all this is fake, right? Because YouTube is just a company run by a bunch of people. Literally, there's no historical parallel for this. They made up a bunch of rules in terms like YouTube preferred, and someone sat in a room and made a PDF that said, here's what you do preferred means, and there's a slide deck in, you know, a webpage in that seems real and you can live your life based on the reality of that thing. But tomorrow, you know, Susan were seeking could leave. They could get a new CEO and that reality just could get upended. Yeah, and I like that to me is like the scary part. Like if you accept some corporations definitions is real forever, you're making your first big business mistake, and I think that's where you like screws up. They're not. They don't communicate well enough that like, hey, we could change this on a moment's notice. These aren't real contracts. There's what are. Platform says, the other thing that you do. They're real contracts. Every one of those contracts that every platform puts out has a section and says, we reserve the right to change his contract without you being involved it based on conversations. I've had with different people at YouTube like sources. YouTube is it's insane. Just the level of like disconnect between YouTube staffers people who work at the company and YouTube creators and a community in saying the amount of times that I will, you know, reach out somebody like, hey, I'm working on the story. I wanted to show you guys these things and like the response to like, don't know what this is. I don't know what's happening a cool. We're gonna look into it, and it's one of those situations where I had a source be like, oh yeah, like I saw one of your stories on the verge, like shared it around the company because it was like, didn't even knows thing. And it was like, yeah, it. It's one of those situations where YouTube is so big and it's an ecosystem, and there's little tiny pockets that it's hard for anyone to pay attention to what's happening, crossing tire platform. But you've got on one side creators who really. Well with YouTube as a accompanying, and that's your lies. Koshi is I would imagine Casey nice that probably works really well with YouTube. And then you've got people like Pudi pie who is still the number one creator and whose whole mantra is I'm not dead yet. His whole mantras like YouTube is tried to destroy me in any way possible. And I'm still here. I'm still a number one creator and it's like for him. He views. YouTube is just just a place. It's he loves his community, but he's like, like if you to ended, tomorrow would be fine. So I can't one of these sort of like white label creator video platforms sake off. Why? Like the Zeus network, which is like king batching, Amanda, stern iguanas, not take off. I think it's the audience is and how built in the ads sense mentality is to creators already like craters get it. They understand it. They don't want to mess with it, especially once you rely on it and the audience is four hundred and fifty hours of content uploaded every minute like billion to billing. Views. I can't remember what the monthly thing was, but it's an insane number. It's you're not gonna get that anywhere else. And it's easy to game algorithm is super easy. Like literally. I really, I like text from critters near leg which thumb like which some Nell should I go with? Because this Lemail is going to do really well because of the way their algorithm like tracks facial stuff. And I'm like, it's crazy how well people understand how to game that system like without putting in much effort, they just and there's video on YouTube, like, here's what a game YouTube. Again, I just remind everyone. It's just a bunch of people in an office could change it whenever they wanted. Actually, well, I'm super excited that you have chosen to come hang out the verge and write about YouTube in these other platforms because I think it's incredibly important. Super stoked, and I hope virtuous listening is certainly a lot about how terrified. But we're gonna Julia on the verge gas, many more times. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Are that was really Alexander who's new reporter at the verge? You can follow all of her work on the site. We're gonna ever back on the show tons of times. I can just tell you can also follow on Twitter, Aladdin, Julia, thanks to her so much for coming on. We'll be back this week with the verge cast on Friday. It's going to be a really exciting one. I can't tell you why, but it it's going to be a good one and we'll have more interviews coming up real soon. Let me know how we're dealing. I love hearing from all the this episode is brought to you by Merck. Here is a word from our sponsor, Merck, Merck, scientists. Darya Zubaydah has failed countless times, but from those failures, medical invention was born from years of trial and error, researching infectious diseases. Dr. Zuhdi has helped to develop medicines that help treat HIV and hepatitis c. for the next generation of inventors Dr Zuhdi passion, coupled with her commitment to a radical. World's toughest diseases proves that failure is a teachable moment. Dari is just one of the many Merck scientists dedicated to inventing for life. See why we invent at Merck dot com, slash inventing for life.

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1:24:00 hr | 2 years ago

328: iPhone XR review, Google Home Hub and Yoga Book C390

"This episode of the verge has is brought to you by ZipRecruiter have your automatically uploaded all your photos, your cloud by accident. That's not smart. But you know, what is smart? Hiring ziprecruiter. Ziprecruiter's powerful technology finds people to write experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. So you qualified candidates fast. Ziprecruiter's rated number one by employers United States based on a trust by reading of hiring sites with over one thousand reviews virtuous contrite, all free ZipRecruiter dot com slash verge that ZipRecruiter dot com slash verge. Ziprecruiter, the smartest would hire. Hello and welcome the verge cast the flagship podcast of the vox media podcast situation. That's good. No, we have to officially officially podcast network again. And the second one watched percent button back season. Three new episode. Just went out this week on basically creep shotting people in public, which I think you should everyone. Everyone should listen to Ashland. Caitlyn did a great job with that. So you listen the virtuous now, I'm Neil lie. Mall is in Hawaii. I Paul below house Hawaii scrape it's beautiful so. Well, I have a story but see how the data to idea. Hello smack in the middle of you too. I'm in still in California. So it's. The real moment. We're have. Mind. The only good thing about California is its proximity to Hawaii. That's where I'm at with California harsh. Yeah. Totally unfair. No, California's wonderful, Paul tell me your story from Hawaii. Okay. We'll so it spitting a lot of time at the ball is a really big mall here. And so we'll there's a rise in store. Went to the variety store got the pixel three. Yeah. And then I. Switched Monday number over. I'm like, I'm just going all in. But it was you know, it was reckless. Because what everybody I'm out of wedding and everybody the wedding is communicating on. What's at what's app can only be on one phone at a time. So I moved what's up over to pixel three. I think my numbers ported on not really sure. But I left the charger, which is this is my only use besieged device. Currently I left the charger in a car like, hey, no problem. I'm walking distance from a seven eleven go to a seven eleven. They don't have ESPN chargers. So every phone is USB. I do I got a phone chargers. To do. They not have phone use be and the mockery. And the head lightning. They'd micro USB chargers. Yeah. So do you also by the time or did you just go to the white? No. That's how how it is most places. It's hard to get us. I disagreed. So you know, what they say to why you'll low, relax. What happened? And Hawaii they say that worry USB, see. Go out. You should go out and buy a mate twenty pro because then you could use a may twenty pro to charge the pixel three probably by only solution at this point. Yeah. Or you can. Go to the mall that you're spending all this time. There's a lot of choices out there for you. How do you like your pixel three? It's it's it's great. I like the multitasking I don't like the Google search app. I need. I like Google something. And it was a whole page of like, here's a Wikipedia article. Here's like seven other people who are like this person. Here's another row of random people. Here's another week. And then like you scroll all the way to the bottom. And it's like top result. The actual euro. I was searching for. Yeah. So I gotta gotta get my workflow down. But I I like it. I like it as vice. Yeah. Those mobile search results are hot that of European regulatory activity fall. Like they're coming for you. They're gonna fix that. For. Talked to go foam dollar premium. All right, by the way. I said I started introducing wide you button. And I said that I introduced us. I never told the audience what they should do after they listen the verge cast. So listen to us on the verge cast, then stop and then go with sandwich perception, indeed wonderful. Okay. This week is jam-packed stuff. I phone ten are reviews happened. I got a little baby scoop it out of that review talk about that. Google's night site for the pixel is like leaked, and so we can talk about camera stuff dealer. Deter you reviewed just a strange Lynn ova thing a den that's a good time. And then there's an apple event next week where I think I can say with a stunning amount of certainty that will see a new ipad pro because it just keeps leaking. So we got so start with. Attend. Our? I reviewed it. This. It's a strange thing to review a phone that is substantially similar to the one you already reviewed. And so he had a second crack at it. And I started talking to James spare my creative director. And I was like this is weird. I feel like I'm just repeating myself. And he has you know, the real problem. You have is the ten s review was just an iterative update to the ten. So it's like you heard round of. Does face idea parade. It's your third round of are these gestures are good idea. And so you just like set all that aside. And what can you focus on with this phone? That all being said, I everybody else's reviews and everyone else in the same thing. Which is correct. Everyone's right. Which is this is the one you should buy which has strange extremely strange place for apple to be in where their flagship product is not actually the one that most people should acquire right? Where their most expensive phone is is being positioned by it's sort of the class of viewers as you have to be crazy in some way to go spend that money when you can get this one. Yeah. So I have questions for you. Neil. I and my first one having Reggie review watched your fourteen minute video, by the way message to the verge video team Neil, I gets make fourteen minute videos. Tell me to my enough to be like thirteen hundred psalmist them aid, by the way. I just wanna be like I said, I think. I said, I think could do this and five eight, and then there was a microscope and that, and it's just all kinds of we had my pixel we had my pixel through your view at like fourteen thirty like we gotta get it down to under whatever the iphone ten s was and that was thirteen thirty three. I know it and we got down to like thirteen thirty to stop, shaving seconds. It's fine. And then you roll out with fourteen minutes on the iphone ten are, which we already I'll never quit. I've watched everything read everything you've had to say edited you review we talked about it on the phone. We've gone in great detail. You've put everything that you have to say about it out there. Just you get you get one word to answer this question. Because after all of the information, I still kind of want you to tell me is the screen good. It's fine. That's two words. It's the is fine. The the answer when you're like you get one word my answer. Was it is fine. The word is. Lawyering my weight. It's you know, it's not great. I like, I don't know. I. I don't know if I'm just super picky. I have been told by many reasonable people that I am. So I believe that I am. But at the same time, I know. That we have built in audience of tens of millions of nerds who liked to read about technology products. Right. Like, yeah. Forty some million people read the verge every month. Or or watch videos or listening to these podcasts in so it's hard for me to be like, I'm I'm especially picky rack, I know there's all these people out there who feel the same way as I do about some of these things and then on the flip side of that. It's like. I say, it's fine. And you know, an army of YouTube commenters tells me that I've I'm cheating everyone because it only it has an eight twenty eight p display instead of Tennessee people like the YouTube comments are saying and they're delightfully insane. In a way that I appreciate like I want there to be arguments about pixel density and resolution in this world. And if that's the thing you want, you just have to put up with the fact that they exist. Yeah. So here's also I didn't put this interview because it's so hard to quantify and it's impossible to show, but I'll say it to this this group into the chess on instance, I think they'll know what I mean the. The most bothersome thing about the screen to me is that if you're using a ten s or even using a ten the lamb in nation like the thickness of the glass between your finger, and the pixel is noticeable I've really possibly show this you have to notice in. There's like you can see that. It's a different experience. It doesn't feel quite as much like you're the immediacy of the pixels aren't there and then on the corners? There's a little bit of Hayes in a little bit of like around the edges because of that extra thickness, Matt pens. Reno tech runs described it as a drop shadow around the edges of the display, very kind. And he met typically does not harsh on apple and he in that specific way, and he called it right out. So. Yeah. It's it's just a lesser display. And I find that the brightness cut when you turn it off access to be insane. Right. Like, I would not want to have this thing in my hand. All the time. Other people that I gave the phone to couldn't even see it. Right. So when you hold the phone off access, I think that you know, they'd reengineer the back light to make tobacco like even. There's a bunch of stuff they had to do to make that work. When you turn the phone off access even just a little the brightness drops it just super notice what we put a gif up. It's in the video there's a little bit of a pink shift tube. It's really the brightness drop that gets me in. So the phone is so big that the way I think I hold funds pretty close to my face. So some part of it is always off access to my is right, especially as you can move right hand. And so the the Shimer's at me right in this really distracting way. I just can't unseen. Again, other people that show this thing who did not notice that at all like literally I was like DC it like, it's they're like, what are you talking about in? This gif is in comparison to the iphone eight right previous apple Z. So I have always said before apple did an Oland that I prefer apples display tuning. You know, I think they're L. Cds are nicer to look at Samsung's ole ads and people get mad about that. But Sampson's all are so oversaturated and crazy that I just prefer the more natural look at their L CDs. So I was expecting, oh, this is just be another apple city in front of it is, but that that shift that brightness off axis shift in the color shift is really noticeable to be sort of the lesser immediacy versus the tennis is noticeable to me right now millions upon and so my review I said, if you decide to put a dollar amount on how much you care about the screen is a two hundred fifty dollars. And then every commenter is like, it's the screen. Of course, it's the most important thing. And you know, I don't want to get into a fight and YouTube comments. But to me, it's like. Millions of people by shit LCD TV's, right? Like the signal to the world that they don't actually care about. How it looks millions of people buy cheaper Android phones with lesser displays. So there is an argument that you're paying you're paying this apple premium you get their latest processor. You get their latest camera. You get you know, a beautiful thing, which is not to be. Discounted in you, get this lesser screen in it in that accounts for the discount. I mean, you've got a bunch of others. You know, it's not made of CENA steel, only has the one camera on the back. It has LT advanced instead of gigabit LT years there's stuff it has one gig less of ram. Although it's pushing so many fewer pixels comes matter. There's a bunch of stuff you don't get. But really day to day. I most people should buy this one because it's cheaper and the screen is fine. Yeah. It's like should everyone. Okay. By Ola, TV like, I bought one shouldn't should most people know you'd never demand that. I wish I bought one. Okay. So you said it shouldn't be discounted which brings me next question. And this might actually be for Paul. There's been a kerfuffle that everyone's like, oh my God. They you could the cheaper iphone the less expensive iphone is such a good deal. They finally did it and compared to. The. Last iphone low and iphone. It's not a great deal like seven fifty is still a lot for a phone, right? Feels like a lot to me. I did not like spending eight hundred dollars on the. On the. Leaving the high three and the iphone tenor are calling it the iphone tenor, by the way. Oh, good. Yeah. This spent his full. Solve that problem that I highlighted in the iphone the iphone ten came out. There was the rich people phone in. Then there was the non the the phone for the Poor's. Yeah. Which was eight now there is a phone for the middle class. I guess. If you want if you want an iphone if you have to have an iphone for whatever reason because if I message or your favorite app is on it for some reason, you have to have an iphone, but you are actually on a budget. You probably have it an older phone than this. Right. Yeah. Do you get an iphone cheap? Yeah. There's a lot of adequate phones that still exists in the lineup that are cheaper than this. But this does seem like a pretty strong middle-class iphone. Yeah. You suggesting that they should have made a Brown one. Like it should have been brought on the back. And then the around the screen should have been like a a really like dark green color, and then it could become the avacado toast to the money. It'd be while the fate. Let you do color combos. Yeah. Yeah. It's expensive. But compared to the eight plus is there they plus. There's only fifty dollars cheaper than the ten hour which to me is kind of damning right like. The idea that you're going to get the older designed the older chip the older camera older everything. But what appears to be a nicer ten eighty p panel in for fifty dollars more. You can get debt literally an upgrade of every other thing. And maybe like a sideways move on the screen or downgrade on the screen for fifty bucks. It really suggests that costs that screen is is the thing. That's that's young. You know what I mean? So yeah, I don't know. Should you buy an eight if you wanna small phone you have but to choices and Apple's lineup you've last year's phone the eight or you can pay a lot more money for ten s or you can go try to find ten while the last remaining stocks exists, which is once again last year's phone so like that or you can buy a pom pom phone and phone for your phone and have it. No, you can't you have to buy a regular phone and then by palm phone what's the best phone under Isan that you can buy to have a bomb on a second. So that was like, you know, one thing like, we gotta talk about a screen. We talked about a screen. It's it's everyone should go. Look at it. I don't actually love love to know. People think oh, look at the street and go to the apple store at carrier store. We'll at this thing. Just like let me know if you think it shimmer the way I think it shimmer 'cause it was super noticeable to me. But again, I I think I'm quite picky with these things. Then there's the camera in a camera is the one that I wasn't expecting people to be unhappy about in this way. And it's like the most consistent feedback I've gotten from the review. So it has just it's the same camera on the front. Which is it's like a fine camera. It can do portrait med with the true depth sensor on the back. It has the same twelve megapixel FM point, eight smart HDR mainland's does not have the telephoto lens, but it can do portrait mode on the back. Kind of the same way Google's doing it. It can use its focus pixels phase contrast thing and figure out some depth. Apple only let you do portrait mode on people because they've they were very insistent that they think Google gets it wrong too often. So they spent their time doing M L learning unjust people for portrait mode to work on the iphone ten put the pixel two sensibly. They know maybe it was one of maybe it's a selfie. I think the selfie camera only worked on people anyway, but ever char. But so the interesting thing is that the iphone ten s and the F ten that have two lenses. They can do portrait mode on anything because they can use that second lens. So the way it works is you turn on portrait mode on the iphone tennis. And it switches to the second lens, which is the telephoto. And then it uses a wide angle lens to calculate depth. Right, right. You only have one lens you have to take the photo with the brighter lens the telephoto lenses f two point four captures less light. It appears to me to have a lesser sensor. So you you're using this lesser camera and using the wide angle and to figure out death on the ten are only got one bright lens in the best sensor. So use that sick the photo. And then these like cut it out and do their cool. Blur. That means the portrait mode on the ten are works better in low light. But just hands down. Absolutely. Does. They were open about it. But greasing the brighter lens. So I point this out in the review. And people are like does that mean, the ten are is a better camera than the tennis in the answer is like only in the limited case that you're trying to take portrait mode photos in low light of people a people. Which is mostly what you saying fortunate. My phone is on. So I can't imagine. I that's not something. I do I take. So few portrait. I think it was a big deal. And it is just the reaction that the ten are used the wide angle lens for portrait mode is a reason you should buy the ten versus the tennis is just out there. Apple would not tell me if they would ever enable the ten s you portrait mode off it's wide angle lens. It's obviously a very complicated situation because you switch to portrait mode. You're in the wide angle. You can only do people be switched the telephoto Nike do anything because you have the two lenses that seems like an interface nightmare, very Anapa l-. So I imagine next year they'll they'll figure it out in some way. But for now, if you know the main thing you do with your cameras portrait mode in the dark should buy a ten are. Otherwise cameras are dental, and they I asked him very directly. Hey, is there any difference here? They were insistent. That the cameras are identical. They're running the same software. The one thing they did tell me is in your you either believe this don't, but there was beauty gate in which people thought the selfie camera was was doing a beauty filter on a faces and smoothing things out. And then conspiracy theories about the Chinese market and have it crazy town apple said, no, no, no. That's that's not the issue. We're not doing that. We would never do that. They're very insistent. They don't do that. So. They said we smart HD had a bug in which takes four frames one of which is a lying exposure. And it was picking the wrong frame is the base frame with the selfie camera. So was picking a blurry or exposure for from the selfie camera. And then when the HDR urging that it was getting a slightly blurrier affect on the face. And they say in twelve twelve point one, we'll fix it. So that's gotta come. It's in public beta. Now, if you you can go get it and see if it's fixed. I don't have it yet. I can't I'm not allowed to put it under review devices. So that's why I don't have it yet. But you can go and check it out. And we'll we'll check it out when it happens every time there is a big phone release. There's always a series of gates. Right. So he's the things that people are mad about the phone. So for the pixel three it's there's a scratch. There's a problem with ram in certain situations. It'll close apps in the background it depending on what other app you open, which isn't really enough ram issue. It's like, we're management issue. There's like speaker crackling that some people are experiencing like down the line. It's like some gates are like, yeah. Like, you probably should have caught that some gates like did you did you use it before you started selling? And the the smoothing thing on the iphones is one of those where it's like. Like, did you use it like everyone's saying this thing a bunch of people are coming to your defense saying, it doesn't exist? Like, our our eyes are wrong. And that we're looking at it wrong and the details there, we just can't see it with our human is. And it's like, but if it was just a thug like how did you not? I don't know. That's the kind of bug you catch. And like, I I'm not accusing them of lying and saying that like this actually they shifted one way and the turnout people got mad. So they're claiming they found a bug to fix that. That is not what I'm saying. But it's also just weird. Right. Like, okay. So I have a crackpot theory. You ready? You ready? Okay here. I am the there's I don't have any evidence to support this. Okay. So it's a it's a crackpot. I just want to be very clear. This is my theory. I think the there there are two big things to know about the iphone ten are in tennis cameras versus previous ones. One the rear censor the main sensor is like thirty seven percent bigger. But they run it more aggressively at the same sort of exposure level than the previous camera because they want more light like apples chasing, light in in a very aggressive ways. They've got a bigger sensor can collect more light. But they run at higher or a longer shutter speed at the same sort of brightness level in the world because they want to collect more light. So it's annoy it produces noise or images because they're very confident you can get rid of that noise. This thing they told me the second things now is. The front the the thing that they're doing. I try to collect more light is they they merge a bunch of exposures together and one of them is a longer exposure. Right. So that's the they have longer exposure, which was going to collect shadow detail, which is what they want most of all. So I think he wrote this code where they want to run the sensor real hot and run the exposure real hot. And then do a bunch of noise reduction. And all that they did all that work for the rear camera. And they just did it again for the front camera and use the code again. And they forgot that the front camp. This is a crackpot theory. They forgot camera isn't stabilized. So the rear cameras optic has obstacle image stabilization. Right. Happy pace job. Right. So you just like forgot that the setting on the front camera or this hardware feature on the front camera, isn't there? So you're you're running it real hot. You're keeping the exposure open longer. But you know, it stabilized, you'll get a sharp image. And then he'd do it again on the front camera without the stabilization. So you to blurrier image at the same at the same. She don't see it because your copy tasteful photography is so good at fixing blurry problems that you just end up with a photo that just is a little bit smoothed. Right. So you've got on the back camera. You've got this like noisy picture, and you do all this noise reduction in that ends up with some smoothing on the front camera. You've got a blurry picture in a noisy, some some ISO noise, and you know reduction, but it's already blurred to begin with. And it looks like you apply to beauty filter because he didn't have right, Abe. Lahser. That's just my it's total tinpot theory that they just ran the same code twice and forgot that they weren't getting stabilized photo of these settings. Again. It would be hilarious if it were true crazy town. So like, we're picking the wrong frame. They're picking the one with the most light in it and merging back into it. And sort of picking darker sharper one, right? You see what I'm saying? Yeah. All this is a lead up. So they're gonna fix it. It's twelve on. You can go check it out. All this is a lead up to say that I am now convinced iphone smart HDR, photos, look insane. They look. I I've come to three rounds of reviewing this camera. Now, the tennis and then deeter got the Google pixel three. And we you know, what else are we gonna compare it to you? We're gonna compare to the tennis. We like did a whole another round of photo comparisons. And then this camera which is the same as tennis. What are we gonna compare it to the pixel three? So our third round of taking photos of smartest yard or second running and pixel three. So I know you. I know you were frustrated by this, and I've come to find it, very charming. But James Baram, our creative director is a total pixel. Stan whatever that camera does is the best thing for James because he loves it with all his heart. That's not true like to be clear like he he does judge it. But like, you know, he's garage it so much, but yeah, that you end up like worrying, he loves it. Yeah. He's like look at that. It just everything is smudged in pink. But that's that's like. But you know, he's he's very keen hypercritical all photos, but he is very fond of the pixel camera, and he's fond of it for this reason, which I have now come to believe as well. I'm less charming and British than James, I'm gonna say differently. But James is always saying the pixel camera is photographic, right? It takes its photos that remind him, and he was a longtime film photographer. It reminds him of shooting on film. It has corks and foibles their images are contrast to you just thing we've talked about a lot. It's using all agr in service of taking what he refers to his images that look photographic. The iphone camera on the other hand in apple actually told me they're doing this on purpose? They they shot a bunch of photos. They looked at how they appeared, and they said to themselves these look different than what we are than what people would expect. But we think this is better. This is a choice that they made iphone photos just blow out contrast and shadow in images. They make everything look like you brought a reflector or a light to clean up the shadows. So it looks like you had a fill flash on a face to even out the light on a face. It looks like you brought him a reflector to even out the lighting on a person. Like, it's crazy town. In. Sometimes it's great. So like. You're shooting a sunset the iphone will do will do just naturally do a better. It'll just like figure out it'll evenly expose the whole thing. And you'll get this road dramatic sunset and the lights on the buildings or whatever. But if you're shooting like a person there's a photo in our review. I just took a photo while they were shooting Mario taking Soviet resolve. And it literally looks like we were on a photo set. Right. We brought lights we lit it. Everything was evenly bright in the entire frame. And it just we were outside at a bar. Like, the barter tent, and there are some skylights was a little bit though, it was a little bit diffused. But we were literally just at a bar. They did not think about lighting the spark perfectly. I assure you that photo looks perfectly even and so some people might really like that. I just think if you're used to photos, look, you're going to think these photos, look a little bit artificial, and I asked you you also you also said that you were getting used to the camera and no. Oh what? Now that you know what it's doing. You're able to like I don't know control it, or at least like, you know, what you're going to get your take a photo. So you feel like you're not doing like stuff that is boxers. You don't expect any more. And you kind of know more what you're going to get. When you snap the shutter button now than you did like a month ago yet like a month. True. Yes. So it always always always wants everything to be exposed. Right. Every single thing frame. It wants a perfectly even exposure. So the one place where I can consistently break. It is let's say you have a small human in your life. And she's always like very small in like shadows. Shadows tend to completely envelop her. So far. Yeah. So if that subject is always in shadows. Just by the nature of the fact that no shadows are bigger than her. And there's a light source in the background the iphone will meet her for the window. And then it will try to bring up the shadow that. She's in. To to bring out the detail, Michelle. Right. So max is sitting in a chair the chairs in front of a window or there's a window adjacent to it. The iphone will correctly expose the window because it has the only we can do that as we're shooting shorter shutter, and then it will bring up it will use its long exposure in bring up the shadow rent the cheese in. So I ended up with this perfectly exposed window in like a tree out the window. And then a noisy photo of the baby right because it's brought up the shadow detail for the baby. It's like not what you want. And you think they could figure out that's a face. You're very good at faces is you've insisted with your portrait mode like get that. Right. And let the window blow out. I don't care about the window. And so like what I'm saying is now know what it's going to do a no it's going to make that decision that everything should be. I just won't take that photo. Whereas I think the pixel will generally figure it out. What you want is the person in your probably less worried about the window. So that's what I mean. Like, I've gotten better get not wandering into the errors that it will make. But at the same time it it's just it's it's aggressive. What's even this out? And make a good looking photo is weird. So we put some test shots up of Mara. Or one of a video producer? She like did shootings review. Superfund Marin, I ran around Williams. We're taking selfies of ourselves. So there's a photo of Mario in the bar. There's two photos of my in the bar in our view one is standing in front of a pinball machine and one she's like city, high couch and totally dark quantum Spar. The pixel photos are like probably are not great. But right. She's really read. It's kind of blown out like it's super contrast and weird the iphone photos, look good. They also look nothing like reality. Like, you would not know that Mario was being lit by red lights in this room or the red line in the pinball machine was lighting her in. That was really the only light in the space. You would just think there are some light in this room. And it caught it faded out the pinball machine. So Paul, I leave it to you. Would you rather have more accurate photos or more pleasant photos? Would you rather have a a capture of reality? Where would you rather have a usable photo? That's nice look at kid. Even can't even decide. Yeah. I don't know how to decide how is. I got I got pixel three I'm going with the pixel three aesthetic. But I do it does seem like the thing to do. Now. This is all software. I just like, you know, like, maybe when you wake up today like what mood are you in? What do you want your photos to look like it? He just pick. It's like picking Instagram filter. But before you take the photo. Yeah. And if it's all software now, we should just choosing. You shouldn't have to make a thousand dollar purchasing decision decide will static in what try your ities. You want your your phone camera to have data? What would you pick? I mean, I'm I'm not gonna get a tennis or ten are just because I can't buy three phones or five phones or ten phones every year anymore. Tom to stick with my ten. I do have a pixel three, and I tend to pick the pixel three. But I don't know. I mostly take pictures of my cat. Yeah. And I I like I like the things that the pixel three does two pictures of my cat. Yeah. You might might this metaphor is going to break down and be confirmed. I could do Porto mode with my cat too. So just just this run with me on this. Extremely broken metaphor. All right. You know, like video cameras movie cameras are extremely advanced now. Red makes camper it, can it can do anything you say cameras. These days cameras cameras. He's. What types they like video cameras now. Yeah, we did this last week. Like the ones was Peter Jackson uses. Yeah. PJ's PG camps camps, so Peter Peter's actions, actually, great example here right cameras in your pyjamas. Yeah. Pete is like man, I got these cameras. I could do anything I'm gonna shoot the hobbit forty eight frames per second. Everyone's like, Pete, what are you doing your crazy person? And he's like put the camera or look at how cool it is. I'm just going to turn this dial. And we're just gonna turn forty eight and that's my movie, and then everyone was like that movie looks insane, right or. Motions? Because you can't doesn't mean you should write or motions through Samsung's. Like all video will be shown at two hundred and forty French for second. Right. And they take your they take the west wing. And now it looks like a play because so what you're saying is cameras are apple apples camera engineers and software engineers are the equivalent of Peter Jaques like a guy who has like a nice house and like literally pretty big. But it's not like holy crap. Big. But he nevertheless decides to put in I don't know four like ten thousand dollars speakers in there because because because you can't when that's me. We saying. No, I'm saying that movies are shot at twenty four frames per second. For a reason right TV is shot at twenty procedures is twenty four frames per second. For reason. That's how you expect it to look. There are valid scientific arguments for why we wanna shoot it this way in preserve this blur and create this cinematic feel in when people try when Peter Jackson tries to make a movie at forty eight. It looks really weird, and the experiment fails when TV manufacturers try to interpolate frames in create smoother motion on twenty four people don't like it and Hollywood directors wage war to get the default turned off. So there's a way you expect things to look I when when James tells me over and over again at the pixel is photographic what he means it uses its technology stack uses HDR and produces a better version of the thing that you expect right, right? It it produces what you expect. It's just really. Nice. What apple is doing is. They're they're flattening. The the the light in the photo so much from shadows to highlights that it looks fake in the only metaphor. I have is. This is what happens when you run a twenty four frames per second thing through emotion smoother. And then it looks like a play. Isn't there an argument to be made that apple is just accepting that everybody just looks at these things on phone screens? Anyway, they did to me that this is not the case. I guess my third shot at it came in. I was like is this true. Like are you chasing, the Chinese market? Are you just trying to win Instagram, and they said, no we want to make a great camera. We just we know these photos aren't as contrast to you. But we we think you can add the contrast back in if you want it. But we'd rather give you as much even lighting in details. We can right. So it's the opposite argument. The argument is that you will edit an iphone photo more which I don't think is true now or your Peter Jackson. Yes. He thought are so smooth. So what else is there to say about this phone? I think Tom I even just going to say, I think the size is dumb. I think that they're. If you wanna smoke your set earlier if you want to small near your out options, right? You can only get free. Not tennis. Yeah. Apple Matt about that. They're like great. Yeah. I mean, you can buy an eight eight way cheap. You can buy an aid for several years. Apple seems very convinced that people pound the table and they want small, but they really want big funds. Yeah. The the numbers are are are clearly out there in the market research. So someone's gonna to come out with a small phone. That's so wonderful that it changes people's mind about smart small phones. Yeah. Can't you can't just be? Plan plan plan plan it up. It says they are trying to create a whole narrative around the small phone, but I don't know. I will say Google night-sight fee. You have it right? The. Threes out. If what you want is someone it's not out. So what as of this recording? It's not out yet. But like there's an AP K that you can download the next day and some Android. Police might have an eight became air. And it is like the version of the camera that will support nightside, and it might not be the final chipping software. So the the the experience might change like you have to the back button. In a weird way. Like, I can see why they haven't released it yet. And I'm hoping that they make a few changes to it before they do. So that's that's point one point two is holy crap. It works. P long long long time verge readers will remember the drama with the the no hia phone that we caught them shooting. A DSL are to prove their like on a rig to prove video stabilization, and they made it look like it was supposed to be the camera. And so we call them on they invited us out to like central park at like eleven o'clock at night to take low light photos to prove that this thing could take low light photos. And so we did that for the time. They're pretty amazing, and it basically just took long asks exposures. Nightside takes long exposures. But not not in the way that you think I mean, I don't have the full details wrath top of my head. But like when you take the photo, it's like hold still, and it's like get it says, hold still gathering light. But I think it's taking just a bunch more not necessarily long exposures it's probably longer than before. But it's just taking getting a bunch of more data in and so even if there's subtle movement like I took a picture of my cat this morning when it was still dark because that's what I do. And it's a cat. It doesn't sit perfectly still. But there wasn't as much like blur. And blah that I would have expected if it were just a big long asks exposure, and yeah, like, you could just get just incredible lighting that feels completely uncanny and unnatural out of this thing. So that to me is the if you buy if you have a pixel, and you're like, you know, I don't want photos that look like reality. At night. I want I want to please. It's like well. Okay. Google gave you a button, and that's a mode. I'm excited to play with it. I haven't solved yet. How hard is it there? It's easy. From. These sample photos in their astonishing like the what he did one of this headphones in nearly it's nearly dark the took picture of his headphones that you could read the serial number which to dealers point like there's clearly at least somewhere in this league rhythm very relatively short exposure. So that details not flirt. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna read a quick ad and then Louis is going to do this week and he lawn and we're coming right back. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Have you ever let a network amplify negative stories about your company? That's definitely not smart. It's smart using ZipRecruiter higher for your business. Zip Recruiter, doesn't depend on candidates finding you it finds them for you powerful. Technology scans thousands of resumes. So identify people with the right skills education experience for your job and actively invites him to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast. Then ZipRecruiter spotlights, the top candidates your job. So you never miss out a great match. That's ZipRecruiter is ready to number one by employers, and it states based on trust pilot rating of hiring sites with over one thousand reviews. I try to offer free ZipRecruiter dot com slash verge. That's Zip Recruiter dot com slash Ferch, ZipRecruiter smartest way to hire. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow dirtbags and everybody welcome to this week in Ilan. I'm your host Elizabeth Pado deputy editor at the verge. So how about the Tusla prophet pretty wild? Right. I mean, honestly who needs reality TV when you have tesla because while on Moscow spanning the third quarter publicly shooting himself in the foot tesla managed to get it self the profitability. I would find this unbelievable in a television show. But here it is happening in reality. So that happened, and you know, what's even weirder. A normal normal conference call nobody got yelled at nobody got called boring. There were you know, it was it was I was like kind of impressed. But I will say that like in context watching Elon Musk impersonate, a normal CEO is like a little bit like