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Ryan Fleck and Anna Boden 2/5/19
Hey, so today's episode is one that's been uploaded before. But here's the thing during the Super Bowl last night. Yeah. I didn't say big game. I said Super Bowl I saw a commercial for captain marvel and that movie is directed by Anna Boden. And Ryan flack who'd guests on this episode. They are a directing team man and woman best friends they directed. Three episodes billions. I love them personally, and I've been a fan of their movies forever. And I'm so thrilled. They got a shot like this the direct movie like this listen to Anna and Ryan story, it's inspiring. It's fun. And next week. We'll be back with a new episode spread the word about the podcast, please tell people that you love it. So I can keep doing it. Thanks. Hey, this is the moment. Brag hoffman. Thanks for listening today. My guests are Brian flack and Anna Boden, Anna boat. We were just talking about her pronounce that name, and you guys are filmmakers who made some of my favorite movies. I remember exactly the theater I went to with Amy my wife when I saw half Nelson. We did. And it was one of those movies. I just walked around in two days afterwards. And then I was just in for your career and sugar is an incredible movie. And then this year you guys made Mississippi grind, which is absolutely on my top five films of the year, and Dave Levin, and I were lucky enough that you directed. The second last episode of billions our series this year, which was a real highlight for us. So thanks for that. And thanks for being here. Thank you. So much embarrassing. Great. It's all downhill from here. It's true. I mean, look, you know, the way that I pick guests on the show. And I we made a mistake once very early on. And I haven't seen it since I have to be really interested in something that they've done or something about who they are. Otherwise, I don't do it. And the truth is the specificity of your vision as artists I have found it really compelling because you're films aren't the same. But there are things about all of your films like your love of film that you feel like in every frame. So I I want to go back to the beginning though. And I really just with two people. But I want you both to answer if you can she would go out of the room. Yeah. You out of the room? I wanna talk about how you work together. Because it was really great getting to watch you on the set how you collaborate. And I I wanna talk about accident people can take a lot from it. But I start with you, Anna. When did you know you wanted to make movies? I I'm not sure they answer that. I I knew I loved movies. I loved photography. I loved litter. Picture when I was you know in high school, but I always suspected that. I would never be a creator. And that I would either maybe be a film critic or trailer editor because I loved watching movie trailers or the person who gets to choose what movies get played in theater. I thought that would be the best job ever the programmer of the local indie cinema or just like whatever yet, you know, the landmark had just come to Boston where I grew up. And and so I thought being the person who watches all the movies and then gets to choose what plays at the landmark. I've since learned to that it probably doesn't quite like that. But I really thought there was one person who had to watch every movie and decide what gets played. And I thought that would be my job this wild show business. To the person. Well, how long to extend like True Lies or something? Like what? Nobody you're not talking about first run movies. Are you talking about like, she's a landmark calendar from does? No. No. She's saying like like really she wanted to program may first real job was like a movie theater, the the landmark theater in Waltham, Massachusetts and buffalo sixty six playing that summer. And I was like somebody watched this movie or in my head. Somebody watched this movie and was like, oh, we're going to play at this theater. And I remember going to see the trailer for it like fifteen times a day. Just every time that trailer would play in any one of the screens. I would like have to go in check it out even if I was to be selling popcorn. Anyway. So that does not answer your question. When do they know I wanted to make movies at first I thought, maybe documentaries, and I kind of explored that because I don't know, dude. Like, the real artist thing seem PA. I mean, you were you were watching. It's funny that the buffalo sixty six or most people the buffalo sixty six story would be with that guy can visit galaxy. Can make movies years is like so practical and were you raised with very proud. Like was it the thing like in a home you were in that? You couldn't think of yourself as an artist like because we might parents had fairly practical jobs, and my mom was therapist. And my dad was a professor, but yeah, I don't know. It was something about the idea of putting myself out in that way. I wasn't totally comfortable with even when I did photography, and I was in high school. I remember I like skipped the last day of class where we had to actually show our work. Rick expose yourself. And then I met Ryan. And I think it was actually a met Ryan at the same time that I was trying to explore what it'd be like to be in production with work in Asia, which was taking a summer class at NYU because I went to Columbia for film studies, and they didn't have an undergraduate film production class. So I took spent the summer, and why you taking film production costs because I felt like I needed to push myself to at least explore it. I met Ryan that summer, and and there's something about, you know, both meeting him and pushing myself to explore it in this way that you know, made it feel a little bit more comfortable a little bit more attainable. We'll get back to the moment that that you guys met. But but Ryan, what was your was your story? I guess the warriors were good those years. Maybe maybe he would have had that to watch. That's right. That's right. You grew up in Oakland. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of every that Bill Simmons piece how to annoy fan base and sixty he's he's that's love. Referring current warriors. Vance to that era, which basically spans my whole life. His Rick Barry you were born after it one seventy six. Chip with seventy four seventy five that that's when he was on the cover of SI with the superman. He was of sl wearing like a superman thing when I was nine. Yeah. In seventy five. Okay. All right. So you were born right after that. So a lot of misery as a warrior saying there was time to watch movies. But in terms of wanting to make them there was I think it was there was this period between do the right thing and goodfellas where I was just a fan of movies, and it was always been like ET back to the future. Like all that Star Wars, just Pont popular popcorn entertainment. And that's why I went to the movies. That's why most of us went to the movies. But something happened when I saw do the right thing in the theater that just clicked and I said, whoa. What is this thing? That would that just happened who made this. Why do they do this to me? I took it very personally. What did they why are they doing this to me? And then a few years later with goodfellas where I'm like, okay. Something weird is happening here. I need to go back and see who these guys are what they made it was pretty internet. So I couldn't just Google these guys on my phone you had to go to the library and getting like the. Thicke Leonard Maltin book, you know, look up who the names were realized they had a body of work less. So Spike Lee, then, but certainly Martin Scorsese spike because he was on TV as Mars Blackmon in the commercials. You understood who he was well, he hit only made a few movies prior to do the right thing. So I couldn't I can only go back and see a few of them. And I didn't of course, there was the Jordan commercials. But my no my mind is blown in Jason who's our my producer on the show showed me this article about do the right thing just a few minutes ago, and you oh, yeah. But I don't know if I, you know, she's gotta have it was basically like that movie from oh, no way. Yeah. We never talked about this. Yeah. I was in there were a couple of movies. I grew up watching like, I blood. You know, it was like the movie that Matt like those are the movies that I would go see. And because where I grew up like there wasn't an art theatre. I didn't know about art movies. I it was like, oh, even like certain movies that had a little bit of that deer hunter, which wasn't art movie or apocalypse like I didn't understand what those word they were. They were entertainment that just made disturbed me. They made me putting. College. I went and saw within a short period of time because of the way released patterns work, then even though these movies were released a little bit apart. I saw she's gotta have it and raising Arizona within a couple of months, and I so she's gotta have it three nights in a row. But everything changed like the world went walked off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I love that that happened for you with through the right thing like just seeing spikes vision because I saw that opening night because he was my favourite like I couldn't. And I remember walking out of the this thing out of that theater through the right thing going like, oh, you can use movies for this whole other purpose were thing. But so right. But that you were kid those are studio movies, right? Yeah. It was a kid thirteen do the right thing. Very talking about the first for do the right thing and goodfellas, right? For me. Those were like big movies. And I still didn't really see those as something that like a normal kid could do that didn't feel like a job. I could do but similar to what you're talking about. Because she's gotta have it with such a lo fi movie. Yes. Felt like you could do that. And for me that actual awakening. Was at the UC theater in Berkeley, which wasn't movie house with a big screen that had calendar that came out that had one of those calendars that program three months. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so I started getting into those, and I just picked randomly wants a double feature of stranger than paradise and slacker right now like fifteen fourteen or fifteen years old, and I see those movies. And now all of a sudden now, I'm like, oh, this is something people can do. This is something that Jim dropped between Jim Jarmusch and link ladder. Exactly. Those felt like low budget movies that you can grab a camera and tell the story, but had you thought of yourself as an argue and a you clearly didn't think of yourself as an artist or if you did it was a very private quiet idea. Right. But did you think of yourself as someone who could be an artist? I didn't really it wasn't. I there was some kind of weird awakening. I don't know. What it was? I was watching those movies. Those big move. I loved the studio movies, right? And that's why I've always was kind of like a film culture person. But it was never about. Hey, I can tell the story too. I have a story to tell that wasn't really happening. All I saw those movies. And I don't know why that clicked in me, but they stirred something, and you you you were a big reader was a reader, and I was a private writer. But later, you know, I didn't I didn't try to get people to read what I was writing. But I would right. You were like going full on Emily Dickinson. I would share it with my grandfather. So, but so you wouldn't you wouldn't share your work a couple pieces that I gave to, you know, my literary magazine at my school that got published, but I yeah, it was very it was very private about the stuff. I did. And when how old do you think you like when you saw those movies, you're still in highschool? Do the right thing was no that was younger. I'm saying when you saw Jarmo ties more. So then what sort of steps did you start to take? Did you start tell do tell people like I'm going to be a filmmaker? It started to occur to me that that was something a wanted to explore at least I wanted to give it a shot, whatever that meant. I had no idea what it meant to give it a shot. But it just felt like these are cool stories told an interesting ways and worth just giving it a shot, you know. And so I got a camera. I wanna radio contests on the local radio station. I want a thousand dollars how during Christmas one year. How and spends it on a camera. This is its own story. I don't know. What it we want to talk about the show? Have you told it many times never until story? Of course, you're gonna tell it. So there I think I'm a freshman in high school. There's a radio contests that's happening where they play a song in the morning during the morning commute the next time. They play this usually during the evening commute the same song. You've got a call in and be caller one. Oh, seven right. So for instance, I'm getting ready to go to school in the morning. And I hear them say this is the song of the day callback late next time. You hear this song? Be caller one win yet. So. It's I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus. Michael jackson. Right. So it just enters my head. I go to school. I'm like, all right. We'll come home from school, and I'll turn on the radio and do my homework to it. And if it plays again, I'll just call up. I'd never done this before by the way. But just because I'd happened to hear the song in the morning. I thought hey, why not it comes on again like four or five o'clock. I started doing the read I'll thing right? You're caller thirty seven try again, you're eighty nine dragon. So it's also a soft and really busy. So I get the rare you're going to my mom walks in the door. And I have this panic attack that oh, I'm too young. I'm like fourteen years old. I'm not old enough. If I do win to accept the money. I just go into this like whatever it rings again. And I just handed the phone. She's literally walked through the door. She's like what's going on? Like just answer. It see what happens and they're like, hey, what's going on in? They're like giving. They're basically saying to to tell her the cell. I'm I'm basically whispering the name of the song. And she just says the name of it. And they announced that she's one thousand dollars, which of course, gives to me. There's one thousand really meant something to. And I use like five hundred of it to buy a video camera. And then I start messing around with telling videos, I love that the worst prank. Someone played on me was like, I was is definitely something. I've never told because I haven't thought of it since then I was like eight and there's radio station New York ninety nine x. And I listen to I care music was all he cared about at that age, really young and Elton John was coming to town or something. And he was like my everything my hero and all I cared about on the world is Elton John. And the thing was if you answered your phone nine hundred x my radio station when I called you would win and like this older person in the neighborhood, this older friend of mine had been like I heard they're calling around long, and basically I stayed home for days. And then that's that way. And then he told me I won. And it was all fruit. I'm sorry. Just anytime if someone call my house next as my radio station at like, that's cruel. That's also really cruel thing to do for read like just to drum up. You know? Yes, it was horrible to plant it worked out for you. That's the import. I didn't get to go see Elton. But it worked later I did. But it worked for you. I use them video cameras. You remember what you started to make a little goofy things? I did like a slacker esque story where one story like let him to another story. Would you use for these films friends in school? And when you started doing it, did it make sense to you. It was fun. I had no idea what I was doing. I was half editing at in the camera. You know, like, not realizing like you, you don't press pause on the tape until you give yourself a little leeway. Right. I was pausing crept pressing pause where the cuts should ordering in camera. Exactly. It made no sense. No. Maybe you're making a cavalry movie in one thousand nine hundred eight. Four. When I was trying to edit and had no room on either end of those cuts, but it was fun. Really funny that you mentioned slacker because that was my first attempt at creating a video story also in high school, I watched slacker and me, and my best friend Alice. Schmidt. We decided to do our senior English paper like thesis on slacker and Richard link ladder, and instead of writing a paper, we convince them that we should make video and we call the exile at Newton Ville because we are lives fair saw Liz fair fans, and we lived in Newton Bill, and it was like kind of a slacker story about our our lives in our friends lives. Flipped it the way listed exile main street. You guys flip the perspective knows was these women telling the story. That's did you go see her when she did exile show a few years ago. I did too at the place on the west side. Yeah. We hotel or something. No, no our someplace else, she was playing. I think. She was playing the Bowery ballroom wasn't she maybe she also she she did this you did you win. And it was incredible cool. It was like all people my age for once your age old all day. Because I was there David I went we singing along to every word from that incredible album. Great Al there's a place for one of those songs in that. Right. What? You guys haven't used have you used any of her songs ever know, she's promised to do. This the podcast. You can come back day. If you want to get autographs or something. Macomer when Liz is on the show. So you start doing this? When you and did you edit that I added it we had like a TV studio in our public high school. And so we we shot on s VHS tapes, or maybe just VHS tapes, and it was like real to reel editing, and how was it received? We were in different English classes, my English teacher gave me an A and her English teacher gave her a C. Plus yes, same exact project. That's amazing. I didn't know this part of that. She must have been so bummed was pretty bummed that you do most of the work. No that had nothing to do with it. Just one of the teachers thought it was good and the other one didn't know that you've gone onto like there's that the a which will maybe maybe she ended up what happened to Schmidt. She's a social worker, but they still your friend one of my best friend this episode of the moment is brought to you by billions January seventeenth on Showtime. So okay, look the ad copy. That gave me says a host can add limb about the show, but I almost have too much to say about it. I will say that this has been the great making billions has been the great creative experience of my life doing doing this making movies and television. You've twelve episodes to tell this story, and it allows you to try to do something novel Listrik and intense. And allows you to be as ambitious as you possibly can be. And I felt challenged almost every day working on it. I felt like a failure. But in the best way failure because my ambitions for the show. Dave Sam bishops for the show were an are so high, and because I knew these actors were giving us everything that they had to deliver and put across the show, and I have seen when I've watched back the episodes of as we've added the episodes, as I started this show them to people I'm blown away by how much they work how much people like them. I mean, this is a show about power about titans about an epic battle of egos and about these men and women who have a really clear idea of what's morally, right and a real awareness of when they say fuck that. And just do whatever they want to anyway. And I'm so thrilled that you're going to get to see the show. The series for years January seventeenth at ten pm only on Showtime. You can download the Showtime app to start your free trial. Now, billions on Showtime, Jan seventeen. Ten PM. So you Bryant you start making these movies, and you show them to people in school I school project. Yes. Or you just I'm trying to I'm just pausing trying to remember because it was a few of them. And yeah, I think we had like during lunch. One day. The student body was invited to come watch these students shorts. Maybe thirty people showed up and. I don't know. Really what I don't remember the feedback so much do you remember getting better at it? Or you're not even think, you know, when I I kept playing around with it. I don't I don't remember consciously being better at it. But I remember like sticking it out for a little bit and playing with them submitting one to NYU getting into the film school there and making sure that there that was met with, you know, showing it to the students and feeling like there was a real positive feedback in a way that I hadn't really felt before that let me know the, hey, I guess, you know, I it's worth trying another one at least until it's sort of met with. It's funny. How much I needed that kind of positive reinforcement to keep going. I don't know that I would have kept going had I not had some kind of confirmation that you mean when you're when you're in film school yet college if when you show your films that's fascinating to me because I just thought an independent cinema, which there's so little positive feedback for each time. Until finally, you know, I felt like. Even in film school. This was always just like a little side project. I was doing this never felt like it was gonna be a career. What did you imagine the career your career would navy? I could be an editor. Maybe I could do film programming like Anna suggested. But you know, the calendar kind not the True Lies version of a cinema. But I feel terrible. I picked the James Cameron move. I mean shit, you know, one of the great directors who ever lived. But you know, what I meant. But yes, but that's not really that's not referenced in his canon of great films, right guys. You know, this is great body of work. But you know, I would say, that's probably probably the least regarded, right? Would you agree? That's probably do the least regarded of his films. We'd have to go. Do we have to look at all this right now? I mean, maybe I'm pretty sure that it is though entertaining. And grant has love is the bad guy. Really grand has love, you know, who makes George Clooney's movies with them and writes them with him. He's the he's like the bad guys number one henchman is grant is had no idea we have to go back and watch it. Now, if you've ever, yeah, if you know him or if ever like met with them, it's great to watch him. He's playing like a Middle Eastern kind of terrorist guy and is like hanging off a building with a helicopter. He's he's like now this incredibly successful artists to see it really working so hard to convey like. Equal to watch Taiwan. And then I want your view of True Lies to see. If we've been uncharitable. Okay. Yeah. We're going to have to go back in investigate people. Wait. So you're saying though, you needed even maybe a program or something like, no, I hadn't really thought it through. I was kinda thinking I wanted to do this film making thing it seemed like a real long shot. It seemed like the odds were stacked against anybody trying to make a movie, and I just kinda got lucky each of the way, or at least I felt I was getting lucky, you know, getting feedback that film that I just cited a little five minute short got into Sundance. And that felt like okay now, it's gotten into like the sort of festival, you know, the the domestic great place to show a movie, at least, there's a little bit more validation their rights interesting that you needed that. Or you feel like you needed that outside it after mation? Did you have a sense of that too? Were you when you started making 'cause, you know, even when you tell your story, you did apply to a film studies program. And then you did a summer thing. That was a filmmaking thing. I always had this is very embarrassing. But my backup career my mind. Even when I after Ryan, and I met which was around the time that that struggle whose five minutes short gotten to Sundance. I thought you know, I could always go into accounting. I was like I'm good at math. No, she just had no sort of like grand sense. Okay. So I have to ask like so photographer. Did you have no sense that you saw the world nothing. Accountants can't have see the world differently and all that stuff. But did you not have the sense that you saw certain aspects of the world differently than most people did that you saw the world through like a certain kind of point of view the point of view of someone with an artistic sensibility. Now, I never never thought about things that way in only really thought about point of view in the context of trying to create something you're trying to make something and not outside of it. Not like, oh, I have to be a person that expresses that point of view or but more like it was really the joy of doing it that made me feel like I wanted to pursue it rather than a feeling like this is what I need to go. I'm special. So I should do this. It was more. Like, I just. Love the process of doing this thing, and it was really being in front of doing. Because the first time I did at it was at this NYU program where we're shooting on sixteen millimeter editing on steam Bax, and the old film editing before before that's linear editing, before there was non linear editing, which is the avenue con actually putting film, right? Even though then on linear editing was available fan. But you guys just weren't. They weren't doing it yet. And it was the first time that I did non linear editing and had kind of control of all the pieces and was putting them together in a very, you know, visual, and I don't know there was something that felt very right about it and very rhythmic and about tone and music, and it all kind of came together in a way that made me feel like I'm comfortable doing this. I really enjoy doing this. And it was editing a documentary short film, actually, where I I. That it wasn't that summer. I think when you actually got to work have it or you mean, be clicked into you. Oh, this I can actually express something about mice. I'm I'm in tune with this thing in a way, that's different from other work. I'm doing and they just wanted to make stuff. So I could edit it into a story, you know. Yeah. Which funny when we first met, and I was still thinking this director writer thing may not work out. And being an editor was a job that felt like something that I could possibly do. So when we first met we got the machine we got the computer together and we were shooting this short documentary, but that we were co directing we hadn't decided how this was gonna work yet. So we were both doing everything in I would sit down at the machine 'cause I knew more time than she did about editing, and I would show her how it works. I was playing big shot. Right. She took it over almost immediately and started doing things in a way where I was like. Oh, okay. Well, yeah. Okay. You can do that. Sure. I just sort of step back and realize that she she didn't have a unique gift for cutting images together. And I kind of stepped back and watched it. It was fun. I'm not must have been a great. You know? Yeah, I'm in. So your collaboration. Let's talk about how did you? How did you actually meet like, what was the meet cute that have you were you were like taking that class that you just described working at that editing desk, he was checking out supplies for the Phil film editing, and we had you're so insight and sound the class that you were taking you group up with four person crews. So you earn like this four person crew a mutual who a friend another person taking that summer in class. I also knew this woman, Wendy who basically introduced that's how we met through Wendy, right? Wendy introduced us. And then kind of hooked. To me up to work as a PA on a student film that Ryan was directing the I mean, the Ryan was a DA the next semester. Would you worked on a film together? And then you guys romantic at that time. It was a Brown that time, but you were because I didn't know because I don't know you guys is a couple. Yeah. You were actually a that one in the beginning in the beginning. Yeah. Right. And what was it? So other than like, whatever the attraction all that stuff. But what was it that you recognize each other? Do you think that made you think, oh, this is someone that it makes sense to collaborate to really live this creative life with do? You do you. Remember like, obviously knew oh, she's better editor than I am that could be handy. But like what were the kind of people ask me similar questions on his about, Dave? And I I can I understand now, especially I can look back and know we like rocky and Adrian we had gaps. I knew like, wow, I can figure out what these things are kind of like, what did you recognize any? What did you recognize in? Ryan. I think it it. It was. Just about talking about movies and at first it was talking about other people's movies. And we would just watch a movie, and then talk about it for hours and argue about it, but not in the nasty way. In in a very constructive way. Analyze it get into it talk about what we loved better what we didn't like about it. And then we started to be able to talk like that about our own things. And it kind of we kind of stumbled into working together because I was doing a this documentary short that Ryan mentioned I was doing it for school. I was still in college. And I just started off asking him to help me out. You know, I would I would hold the camera and he would hold the microphone, and but it just started to become more than that. You know, more than him holding microphone. It was respected his opinion. People always ask me how I find the time to read it's important to me to read. There's so much information out there. But I'll tell you I understand that. In today's age it can be. Hard to find the time to sit down and learn and if you don't have time to read a whole book there's an app, I really highly recommend called blankets is the only app that takes the best key takeaways from these books the need to information from thousands of nonfiction books and condenses them down. Just fifteen minutes, you can read or listen to it's made for busy people. Like, you want to get the main points of the books quickly without reading the entire book of an audio feature blankets makes it so easy to finish four books day while you are on the go eight million people are using blankets right now. And there's a massive and growing library help business health to history books. I think it is a great idea. There are times that even I don't have the bandwidth to really go and read a whole book. And I'm when that happens, I'm I'm certainly thrilled to blink is exists. A couple books that I love are available. On blankets. Seven habits of highly effective people by Steven Covey for our work week. I'm a buddy, Tim Ferriss. Check those out right now. For a limited time blinking says a special offer just for our audience. Go to blink dot com slash moment. To start your free seven-day trial. That's blankets spelled B L I N K. I S T blankets dot com slash moment. To start your free seven-day trial, blankets dot com slash moment. Watching you together onset. I told you what night was like mind blowing to me because of how like gentle and respectful you are to one another and it never feels put on it. Feels like you genuinely kind of check in with each other make sure the others create a vision is being sort of like satisfied, and it's like a really kind of a heightened respect. And I I like all working teams work that way. Like our society would be more seven happier. And so was that in place kind of from the beginning is that just an what what your natures are are you that way with other people like how did that develop? Because it's unique. I think it's fair to say was not always that way. And that's right. I'm so glad we can tell I mean, we probably shouldn't tell you some stories. But I mean there were times when we were still figuring you should run a podcast. That's the whole deal. Yeah. I remember things being thrown. I mean, we would throw. Oh pencils? I remember an ipod got broken ones because we both. We were both very passionate people. And I know we're very calm often on the outside, and especially when we're on set with other people, and I think as we've got an older that actually has taken over as the predominant traits but early days when they were just young egos involved from both of us. We were they were fragile and sensitive, and and we both had short fuses. And it was I if you had told me we were still working together. Now during certain fights, we had back, then I'm be pretty surprised half Nelson sugar in be in that area of your lives or before still happen there. But it was really in that short film period before then when because you think every decision is like life for every. But in any way, they are. I mean in a way, they they really do matter. So how'd you subject, I can you know when to subjugate it or when to how do you make those decisions? And I wish we'd never sat I think we would sometimes have these moments of we need to talk about this. But that was rarely I think we would say, hey. We need to figure out a way to do this. Because I think we both think so there's something working about this. But we can't have it go on like it went today. You know, we've when one of those blow up, but you would go and have that conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We definitely had that conversation. But it also evolve organically, I think just out of I don't know what it was just aging and realizing that we can't it's not sustainable to be fighting like we were. And I think I'm overstating this fighting thing too. I think. You know, how I think about it. And how I remember it is, you know, remember somebody who didn't show up till like their photography class because they had to show their photographs the last cost, you know. And now I'm sitting in a room with somebody. And we're talking about ideas for a script, and it feels every idea feels very personal very vulnerable, and to even you know, I'm I I'm even censoring myself. Like, I'm not saying some things because I'm like, oh that stupid. He's gonna think that at the very beginning. And then finally like, I get up the courage to actually say it out loud. And he says that he doesn't like the idea in whatever way that he's saying it, and it feels like he's just totally crushed me. And so that's that's the kind of thing at least from my perspective that would cause these fights. Instead, you wouldn't show the wou-. You wouldn't be like I'm heard you would just be like, yeah. Go. Fuck yourself pretty much. Right. And and it took a while to get more confidence in myself, and my DA's and to realize that if I don't censor myself that I'm not a term that we always say is like building a palace around the one idea that we've shared, but we have a lot of ideas, and we don't we don't need to feel so hurt every time. One of those ideas is man, it'll your Powell's around the central. You mean, there's this central idea? This is actually I came from an interview with a blues, Tony Gilroy, right? And was. Maybe it was even with you about the idea that somebody builds palace around there one idea because they've got one idea they're going to hold onto it so strongly, but for people who don't have multiple ideas. You don't you don't dig his bath to speech, it might have been that BAFTA speech. This was years ago. So about Steven Soderbergh about how he has lots of ideas. Yes. Steven Soderbergh is such a wonderful producer because he doesn't just have the one idea that he then builds a palace around. He has a lot of ideas, and he doesn't need to build palaces. And so when we kind of run up against that in ourselves, we can acknowledge like that's the language that we use to acknowledge. Oh, have we are? We building a palace around this idea. We're stop building a palace. Oh, I know what that means. Yeah. Maybe I've built a little bit of right? You mean open up. Let yourself think about what if this isn't exactly the way to go. Let the idea either become what it needs to or not. But don't try to protect it. Don't put a moat and get out of the box for second. Yeah. Exactly. And so you find yourselves doing that still do the conversations because it's clear that onset, you the way you comport yourselves is so that you create this tranquil and creative environment for the actors and the other techno technical people to do their jobs because of you guys were fighting that'd be impossible if you weren't unified. But now when you go in the editing room, you're able to negotiate these these things somehow, here's what we have learned in that part of the process that when we used to have these fights in the edit room over know, what needs to be like this. No, what needs to be like that. They wouldn't end we wouldn't figure out how to resolve them. Eventually somebody has to make a choice, and we need to see how it plays and move on. I think we learned that if. If somebody we know each other really well now to the point where if someone's real willing to take that fight to the next level, you know, who who's willing to take it to the next level is usually gonna win and one of us will relent we'll say, I don't think that's the fight. I wanna have right now. And she cares. A lot about this. I'm going to give her that one. And we'll see how it plays out, you know, that sort of thing. And then are you able to come in the next dangerous to actually like, so if Amazon and then go to that at it are you able to come in the next day and just look at it. Oh, yeah. Objectively ten you have the faith that he's you some of the faith that he's then going to look at it objectively not like thinking. Oh, but I wanted to do it my way. Yeah. And a people ask like what are some fights? They he's wanted that I have one, and there is nothing in any of our movies that in the end we didn't both completely hundred percent agree on do you feel the same way? I don't think you could do this like David I have been create a partners for eighteen or nineteen years. And there's no way you could first of all even like our? Are you know, if you saw the thing, I'm sure that the thing that was entirely every xactly the way you and the thing exactly the way you wanted maybe pretty close to like pretty similar movie the differences, which seem huge to in the in the moment holding on somebody for thirty six frames before you cut to somebody else for the react. Like, I'm going to be on Anna for this reaction shot for I think it should be for twelve frames. But I think it should be for thirty six frames. And then the other person's going to the joke. Just doesn't listen the joke plays at you've got to cut off her face because you see I don't like that could be one of. I mean, you could be arguing over the right? Couldn't over the difference between twelve and thirty six frames, and it can seem crucial, and you know, and sometimes it is really that. Sometimes you know, that really really matters. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it often matters. But later, it's hard to really REM later it's clear I would just say in three days for us three days later when we watch this. Okay. We met all those decisions and. Gone through all of it. And then we washed the thing down. We're just watching it and each making notes, and almost always like that moment the note that we have we'll by that time beat the same. No under if that's the case for you. Yes. I mean, the luxury of the edit is that you have all the time in the world in a certain way to come up with the make those decisions and get on the same page, and I guess the hardest decisions to to disagree on in the moment, or when you're onset, which is why it's so important. I think to be respectful and quiet, and, you know, have those conversations intimately even when it feels like you're not actually having those conversations at all to the people around you. You know, I I have a couple of them. But I also one point Ryan you saying to Anna. Okay. So why don't we get it this way? And then we'll go get it the way you see it. And if you do that quickly enough, nobody knows sector to versions that are getting shot, and it doesn't end it just gives you options just gives you options same way as single. Yeah. I find the momentum means so much in film, and TV that we try to just go right into the next take, you know, and not have a big discussion about oh, it needs to move here on this line or needs to whatever it is with the camera or the performance we often just let's go right into another one time is that a strategy. You gay came up with ahead of time. We'd learned that as we went that definitely we learned that when people are looking around waiting for you to decide on what to do next. It's often best to just say, hey, let's go again people start setting up then you have time to discuss if it doesn't go well on take to what the strategy is for for take three and an Austin, we find just my doing the taken both the Antioch. Cinematography caliber map and who's going to be in the right spot. And all that stuff will then have it. I want to talk a little bit about this castle ideas, really interesting. And it made me think of so Mississippi grind, which you know. I think it was like a ninety seven on rotten tomatoes or ninety eight or something like that. Do. Eighty nine percent eighty nine right now. That's that. You know that until that's pathetic, dude. I'm exactly the same way. But that is totally. Dave told you I am told me, I would I know. I tell Dave and obviously Utah and. Bye. So unfortunately, but you told me that you had another movie you were gonna make before you told me before Mississippi grind so making independent films so hard, you know, I was thinking about another Oakland. Ryan Kugler who took fruitvale, which is incredible movie. One Sunday had an arc similar to the beginning of your career. And then he seems to have made a decision to make a big movie. And you've it seems like stuck resolutely stuck to making an I know it's clear when you see creed that that is an incredibly personal movie, but it is a movie with grand scope, it's great to for certain grope. When I grew up down. Great. I can watch it. I could my son and I went opening night. And I was just had the best high. You know, have you had them here. No. I haven't he has my favorite accent than anybody. It's the Oakland accent. It's the but his is really spectacular. It is great. I wasn't hit him on Elvis Mitchell twice through just so I could hear I had a little bit of that growing up. But if I've been in New York eighteen years now, so it's kind of disappeared. Did he really have like the Ryan? Kugler level accent people accused me of being from the south when I first moved to New York. And that's what it is. It has this southern tweet. Yeah. Because she's going to say, no, right? A male. She didn't know me, then I. Internet machine. Right. Your second year of college the fifth. Okay. It was subtle subtle thought. You were hard. Like, Oakland hard. But obviously, okay, let's get back to so create. No. But so you guys it seems you didn't I think following half Nelson. You must have had opportunities to go do more Hollywood pictures or two, and I'm I'm just wondering what your thoughts because it's as you said, you started by saying those were studio pictures goodfellas do the right thing the movies that were initially inspired to you. You wanted a program like a regular theater, but making these movies is so difficult, man. I'm I'm wondering firstly how you decided to stick to doing that thing. And whether you regret that at all or wish you could do it differently and bundled with that, how do you decide what you're going to commit years of your life to trying to get made just I'll speak very briefly about that windows as window when you make your first film that's perceived as a success, you get actors who wanna meet with you. You get studios who wanna meet, and they want to hear about what your next story is we'd already. Been down the road on sugar of trying to do the research, and we actually started. I think we may even had a first draft of the script before half, Nelson, even come out. So we were just excited amount telling that specific story, which was by the way, a movie in Spanish with no movie stars that no studio wanted to make thankfully HBO films. Stepped up is listed as a foreign film in places. I saw that today. I was looking to watch it on. I am honored Netflixing. I haven't seen it since it came out a couple of your moves I've seen over and over. But I always thought that movie one time I was like, oh, I should. And I it was like under foreign films. I I just thought that it's not a foreign film. You do have to read parts of it. Yeah. No. But it's not. But it's I it was it just felt like the end is window with his great opportunity to make this movie that we might not ever get a chance to make again. And so we went that route instead of making the big studio Brad, Pitt Johnny Depp style movie not saying any of those guys were even interested. But I'm just that seemed to be a way we could have taken. But it wasn't even like we were shutting down that route so much is, hey, this was the story. We were ready to tell let's make this one thinking we would get that opportunity back. Figuring capital would still be happy that kind of capital which thumb that Ryan Gosling hot, and you know, all that Lang hot heat window situation happening, which actually was not quite there when we came back around to making our third film. Do I regret it? No. Because I experience making sugar was one of the highlights of my creative career along with billions, of course. Well trivia, but but. Feel about an Anna. I think I was a little bit more certain at the time maybe incorrectly. So that I didn't want to make those kinds of movies. I feel like I had a strong desire to tell small intimate character driven stories, and even though I did love those movies and didn't feel like that's where my heart was in terms of blockbusters, exactly. Even though I liked big movies popcorn movies, all kinds romantic comedies horror. I watched everything I loved it. I didn't feel like that's what I should be making. And I think that this is actually maybe where Ryan, and I differed at the time I mean now, I'm much more open to exploring making different kinds of movies and telling different kinds of stories and excited about the idea of having the opportunity to do that at some poor. We'd because six people are less film. The changing nature of of telling those kinds of stories is people don't go see them in the theater. Well, yeah. So is that I mean when you make a film like Mississippi grind, which. Yes. Such is such as me saying, oh, this is really terrific film. Like, that's why I was saying the rotten tomatoes thing. And also just starting totally people saying it, I mean, it's like just executed incredibly well performances are great. I mean, you succeeded in completely changing my opinion about one actor, and Ben Mendelsohn is just the, you know, maybe like the best film actor imaginable. Is it maddening that that movie didn't get more of an audit? By the way, will I mean, I know that it will have a huge life. I mean, if you think about a movie like hard eight, which for me is a great other Beveren, always mentions California split. But I I think hard aid is equal. I think it's terrific. I think hard eight I see there are things about the aspects of your movie that remind me of heart eight and in the best one who Sydney, I don't to be disrespect. Yes. See to Sydney and thanks for saying that, and yes, it is maddening. I mean, I think it's still raw to us because it's we're still sort of in it. So. So I don't want to say too much. But it it definitely feels like nobody you can. I mean, I I'm it drives me mad that people haven't seen solitaire man are army that also has like an eighty nine and top critics on rotten tomatoes, and like so few people, you know, because of the podcast like a lot of people have seen the movie, so many more people have seen it now because I talk into this thing, and I get letters like why didn't I know about this movie? And it drives I wonder my hair out. But that movie is less commercial book gets there's sort of no hope in it. And it's not really that fun though. You guys will really let you definitely go. See your definitely ran it. But definitely like get the DVD and watch Amazon. But but visit me grind is like really fun movie. Also, a great ride say sorry say that again, it's a great you just put that right on the if you want you can it is though a great ride and it did really well at festivals, right? And got was it hard to get it made. It took a little while. But it wasn't as hard to get made as other. Other projects though, that we have tried to put together, for instance, the one that I had been telling you about that we tried to get made it never got made right before Mississippi grind. I mean, you know, from the moment that we put pen to paper to when we were making it was, you know, maybe a year and a half or so it's not the response to this other project, which was a big sweeping sort of epic but intimate character piece that was going to be too big for the kind of movies that are being made right now. So we said, hey, let's get to guys on the road. We can get that together. We can find a couple of actors. We'll take that journey with us. And there were some starts and stops along the way. But. Go back once again because it seemed like you were trying to say that you felt like maybe you would help the two you back by not wanting to make that kind of movie. Do you feel that way? No, no. I don't feel that way. I just feel that when Ryan says he was certain that we were going to get another opportunity to make that kind of movie. I don't think that's where my head was out at all. I think that I I was like, oh, I'm not right at that time, you weren't. I guess neither of you. Or wonder were you just happy like, oh as long as we get to make movies like I don't care about the rest of the stuff like the fa- being considered. Whatever important directors are getting to work with the biggest movie stars or making enough money to support a family. No, I'm just because arda all of us come at this differently. Like, I I know some of the decisions that David I made a to do with the fact that I had a young child and right at the beginning. And I have you know, I I wouldn't have ended up doing this. If I didn't have my my son is who made me having a first kid made me make the decision to become an artist. So none of it would have happened but for him, but I also had this sense of responsibility to use the the fact that I I could go get Hollywood jobs to go get those Hollywood jobs, and I've often wondered if we'd made other decisions what what the different path would have been that. But you guys were saying all know families living in artists life in the beginning. Yeah. Happening. We got paid like ten thousand dollars to make half an ounce in and we were like this is a good chunk of money. And you believe they're paying us to make this movie, which I think often gets turned around on filmmakers, young filmmakers because everyone is willing to work for free. To make their homes. Yeah. Well, we yes, we worked for free a lot. Also when between the good jobs. That's what you do. Right. Right. Because you're dying just make the thing. And I think that part of that is you know, we were really young we didn't have families, and it didn't feel like it was we were super close to having that. And you know, a lot of the filmmakers who I really respect it. I remember meeting with that Jim McKay. This is before he had, you know, now, he has a, you know, a really a huge television directing career and his directed some wonderful television shows, but it was before he did that. And he didn't have an agent, and he was like he met with us right after Sundance with a go on us or short film that we then based half Nelson off of and he read our script, and we just admired him so much as a filmmaker. And he's like, you know, don't get ginned don't like do the Hollywood thing. And I felt like that's who I wanna be. I wanna be independent filmmaker. Did you find her? Like when you would think I'm gonna I'm thinking about jar motion and linkletter who took very different paths. Those two guys did either of those paths resonate more for you. Or was it really just here's the thing. I don't see. I never shut down the studio saying Lynn just like soda burger link later. I'm looking forward to the day of making one of those school of rock type movies or oceans movies that you actually been a part of those seem fun to me those seem like those be not not just lucrative good for my career in terms of like my being able to to live for few years off of that that money, but I think creatively that would be really fulfilling as well. Because we haven't had that experience yet. And I would like to to help you. So have you tried to do have you tried to do that? Now have you gone around to the studios, and because you have to I mean tells the story in one of his books about I mean, he's told he's told that a lot, you know, about having a fight to get out of sight. Right. Right. Started that whole thing right? Yeah. No. We have you gone and fought for verge. We are mounted start that process. So let's check back in. Eighteen months and see how it goes. You know, I in terms of just reading things and thinking about what what kinds of movies in that vein. We'd like to make its maybe we're a little bit slow to fully connect with something. We want to be super passionate about it. So we haven't just jumped into something like that. Yeah. We an out of sight. We haven't found that thing that we can, you know, lock into and know that this this can be a big movie studio movie, but it's also going to be subject to find your little secret movie. And at that, you wanna make exactly do you need that this, right? So that's what we're looking for house. This is this part of why you're directing television because it's a way to dip your toes in the water of working in somebody else's. Absolutely. Yeah. In TV, so good now ten years ago, you'd be embarrassed to be working in television. And now the storytelling is fantastic. I mean, your show is just one example threatened that in a few episodes, four episodes of the affair, and I know you've done other a bunch. Other television too. And you you you both like it you like doing it too. Yeah. To is an experienced by experience basis, but it's a good experience to have even when it's not a great experience. But you know, it's the biggest challenge, but what makes it don't name names. But what makes something not a good experience as a TV director premium kind of show. I mean, it's exactly what you said you're jumping into somebody else's. I don't did you say pond, I tried not to use any of the sort of old cliche. I didn't say sandbox. I knew I didn't say sandbox on purpose. Okay. I think he's had pie. I don't think it said anything stopped. Okay. Would you filled it in like somebody else's, and I waved my hands which is great to do an audio medium someone else's ferry. Wonderful any case in somebody else's blank. You're you're joining somebody else's sandbox. Ponder Laker whatever their vision here doing yourself into someone else's vision and be in service to that vision. It's weird. But also, I think fun because. We can jump onto that vision in jump right back out of it and onto the next one. So I think that's part of what's appealing about. What makes it hard though? Well, it depends how how how much your vision kind of can work within that other person's vision. How much kind of freedom and trust your given. What the vibe is just the set vibe is not at no longer completely controlled by you on a movie. It's Rosie yours sets vibe that you set in a lot of ways. And this is set by a whole lot of other people who came before you and is it a comfortable working environment. We're we're jumping into episode eleven of twelve on your said right now that it's the previous ten episodes had not been I've been misery. We would've we can sense that you jump on. And you say, oh my God like everyone, here's miserable. They're all frightened is everybody so tear, which is absolutely not the case on on your said. I mean, it was so clear that everyone. Felt like they were well respected and given freedom to be creative and excited about what they were doing. And it makes it in extremely lovely place to to find yourself every day. Like why you guys would feel that way. First of all, our crews awesome in our actors can when you have like number one. There's all the regulars there to really do this. It just none of them feel like they're cashing a cheque, they're all passionate about it. That's enormously helpful, but also David, and I were rigorous in hiring directors that we'd like to trust it, which would be like so that we could say to you. I mean, I know there was only one shot the entire time where I was like, oh, I don't think you guys should do it this way. Here's why musically. I mean, we can all know there was one thing. That's because I was just like, oh, whatever they do is going to be great. We would watch the deal know, it was for us like just a great experience. But do you feel like it's I, but I I did a couple of times wonder sort of like why when you make? Such distinctive specific movies. And you're still in the prime of your filmmaking career, even if it's like, not financial creative because of the movie wasn't like why you wouldn't really putting all your energies into making the next like I want you to direct an episode next season. If there is when all that stuff, but but I wonder whether it's some other version of hiding like it's still a kind of hiding or something book has it's so it's there is a safety in it with the thing is at the beginning about your movies have so much love for film in them. I mean, you really you watch Mississippi grind, and you feel all the movies. You guys were watching and every frame is drenched with this specific point of view from the music to the wardrobe to like the exact way that the picture that somebody framed that somebody breaks is hung or standing is sitting there and the what he does with like each thing. There's like this specificity of vision that you can never have when you're making somebody else's show. It's true that you can't have this specify division that you have when you're making. In your movie, but I actually find it. A lot more scary invulnerable to be on somebody else's said frankly than to be on my own. I think that you're kind of opened up in a different way in trying to achieve somebody else's vision or help, you know service. Somebody else can help stretch, you think you awesome good too. I mean, that's that is interesting. Maybe even more interesting when I'm going to say is, but you could use the toys that we on your indie film. You don't have access to all the toys that you have on a show like yours or on the affair. And it's it's it's fun to play with those toys, and and keep experimenting with technology. The tools of story telling tools of filmmaking, right? Like the way some people use commercials to do that. Right. Exactly. Like, the Tony Scott. What are we talk about? In interviews getting to do all that stuff on these commercials that he didn't bring into the film's, right, right? But when you say the next eighteen months for thinking about how are you going to write a Hollywood kind of a movie? Do you think you have an idea? Do you still right every day together? No. We don't read as much as we should. You're howling. Yeah. We don't read as much as we should. We really are. Gosh, I'm going to say, I'm lazy. But I'm gonna admit that. I'm lazy you feeling that your feeling you're going through like a lazy period with the right and has a baby. So she's lazy and like have used it as my excuse to you right in the same room. Usually we go through the basically the beats of the beginning of the story. We'll do like vague beats for the outline of the whole thing and then sort of seen by seeing outline for the beginning. And then we'll separate although I feel like now that I have a baby at home, and it's harder for me to work from there. And we just starting in January. We have an office together for the first time. I feel like that will be a really good place to go to every day and try to get back into the rhythm of writing every day resolution. I like that do you feel helped or hindered? By the decision to stay in New York, not living LA. That's that's interesting. I mean helped for me I can't I'm not an LA person. I like going to visit. I actually don't mind it. I used to hate it. I like it now. But I don't really wanna live there. I love New York. Yeah. I love living here if you want. I mean linkletter never did. I don't think but all these other people did sort of who made the Hollywood for just spent periods of time where they when lived there, you know, if you really wanted to make those movies, but how are you thinking about when you think about it? How do you think about the idea of trying to go do one of those bigger films? Do you feel like you're going to write it or you want to go and get in rooms and convince people to give you one of those scripts? I think that it's started out by just reading more scripts trying to actually read things that people that are agents said as for change, I feel like that might be how we find our way into something because we don't have the idea of the thing that we can do for my sense from Ryan that he's a little bit. I do censor you a little discouraged by sort of like the state of independent film. Yeah. Crusca Rosenberg was talking about this little bit. But I for me, I view it's like the generally like, I just I look at your career. And I think they've gotten to make all these movies exactly the way that they wanted to it's incredible. And I think it's. It's the kind of thing that like later someone like it's they're like living a French new wave kind of existence, of course, living it's hard. I could see that. It's like a real. I mean, making exactly the movies you wanna make with no compromises, no, creative compromises and yet. I can see seeing you this like frustration. I mean, are you frustrated by it? Now, I am festive by it. But I look back at all the movies that we made and the experience of making them, and it took, you know, a few years to to make Mississippi grinder last film. And I was frustrated I was going home to my husband every night, you know, as we were trying to get that movie off the gum being like, I just can't do this is my least favorite part of filmmaking. And it feels like it's more of the process than anything else. And I was complaining all my friends about I'm like, maybe I should open a BNB in Hudson valley, and then and then we got onset or we got down to New Orleans and started prep, and I felt so happy felt so exactly where I wanted to be doing exactly what I wanted to be doing so confident in what we were doing and the people who we chose. To work with and I fell in those moments like it's worth it. But then you finish. And then you spend a year releasing it and then nine people see it. And then and then you've got to start raising money for your next project. And it's in those like lulls that you start wondering is it really worth it? You have to go back to like original principles or something. And remind yourself why? And what being on sets helps. And and that's the other reason that we like directing television because when we have a good positive experience onset. It's like, oh, yeah. All right. I like making stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I completely understand that like for me. And Dave I think every time that the production offices actually open and you walk in and people start filling those literally I know that field. It's just like, oh, we're we're getting do this thing. And and we're actually getting to live this dream. And then you can forget about all the impossible. You know, and the rhythm of it the production designer shows up, and that person's all everyone wants to talk about and talk to then this shows up, and no one ever talks the production side are again, he's miserable. She is. But those rhythms are. Yeah. I don't know the very old warring location scouting. I mean, he's getting an van and finding the spot where you're like. Oh, yeah. This is the shot. This is the place. This is where I can see the scene starting to come together and just fun part of the process. Well, what's it feel like to to be starting at television show that that you're open a production office? And you're like this could be my production office for years. Years. Well, you know, I'm because David and I got to a similar a similar place of frustration with a part of the movie business different slightly differently. But had had such a bad experience working on runner runner and really felt discouraged about the kind of things you have to do to get certain kinds of movies made in the compromises that come along come with that. And then the movie was so bad. And we knew that it was bad from at every step of the way and couldn't fix it. Couldn't change it. And that started as a pitch the experience with pitching TV shows and getting deals for them doing it with writing it as you guys do writing it on spec writing billions on spec, and then knowing okay, we're gonna risk that. But the reward is going to be that if we get to go make it we can make the show we wanna make and you know, in our head the whole time was we're going to cast exactly who we want to cast because we were going to like be it a a network since we wrote a months back, we controlled it. We're only going to go network that we felt really understood the show that we wanted to make which would then lead us. Cast it because we'd all see these parts the same way. And then we were able to hire exactly who we wanted an every position all the directors. So now, the only hope we're than seven people. See it heartbreaking for me. If people don't watch it. Right. If enough people don't you're already there. I mean, it's it's a different landscape. It's not you're not releasing an indie film on one screen. You know, you're on Showtime. And this is going to be on buses, you're on billboards. This is a big deal. Well, that's happens. But, but I, but part of it is, you know, I know that like a show finds it's like, I'm really happy to pilot people already really like it. That's great. But I know that it gets better. And better a better. It's really what people to keep why. No that as the show gets the third fourth fifth sixth episode, really like becomes something special. So look we all find stuff to worry about. That's part of this life. Anna is that we don't we know that it can it's such a dream existence. In a way, we feel like it's precarious. I mean, but are you are you able to look at each other? And know that you're in the firmament of this now that you can do this thing that you're we have to remind ourselves we have moments where we get frustrated and we wanted to what we're doing and what we're going to do next. And is is it worth it? Like, Anna just said, and we kinda just have to step outside of that. And say, hey, remember that time we did this thing that was pretty bad ass. A who does that like we pulled that off? How did that happen? And it it gives makes a smile and realize that we want that feeling again. Yeah, we need each other. That's the best place to end. I mean, we need each other is perfect. And we is film audience need you. Well, not to be all James, Lipton and horrible. But we we need we as the film rolling audience need Ryan Fleck and not a vote to do what they do. And. No one else can do but them. No. We do we need you guys to do your thing because I can really count like the movie going experiences that have shaken me the way half Nelson did. And and the fact that you've kept it up, and that I know I'm gonna watch Mississippi grind ten times is while you got to you have to keep going and go make your next film. And thank you for doing this. Thank you so much for having us. This is great. You can find Ryan on Twitter at oh, what am I what are you? I don't know. Fleck Ryan one. Oh, yeah. It's we. Yeah. If you can find this still new to this thing, I don't quite get it. He's on there. Also, you can tweet at me at Brian complement, and I'll point you to him, and you're not on the social media that much. You're not on the Twitter and not on the Twitter, maybe one day. So you can't find her there, but you can go and find a way to purchase Mississippi grind people. Give it on itunes. Yeah. Amazon thing and on on demand on some on-demand systems. There's no Justice. If there were just as Ben would get an Academy Award nomination. It looks likely at this point. But I'm rooting hard bar. All right. Thanks for doing this guys.
The Moment with Brian Koppelman
Aired Last week 65:45
Harry's New Hobby, March Madness Futures, and All-Star Weekend Props (Ep. 93)
Today's episode is brought to you by captain Morgan the official captain of against all odds. We're raising our glasses of captain Morgan ginger to all you Catlin's out there. Whether you're tugboat, captain, captain of your intramural, dodgeball team or just live to have fun. You're all captains in our book. And no matter how you choose to live like a captain, captain Morgan reminds you please drink responsibly. Captain's orders. I welcome to again for a lot of the ringer podcast network. Cousin Sal here. I'm here with master Tate. Frazier work in the boards is the oh against the laws with happening fate not too much south happy to be here. Gonna talk about college basketball. So I'm happy to join broadcast this week going to be Goodwin. Yeah. You're gonna make a sound smart. I hope I hope even though you root for team kind of blew it last night hobby guitar hills telephone down the stretch. I mean, they had a moment. Kobe that shot right on the you know, it's game of inches right on his fingertips. And and if it goes in maybe things are different, but Virginia, they just own Carolina. At this point. It's a it's a known thing in Jordan was in the building and things have gone well with Jordan as of late but against do last time. He was there when he said the ceiling was the roof Carolina did win. So we got that one. That was it. That's all we got speaking, Jordan. Here's my Michael Jordan's actually that three of them there online right now. My gurus of gambling my barons of betting. My wizards of wagering the degenerate Tri factor, brother. Harry and Darren the Polly kit. What's going on solid? What's going on south? So what's up? What's going on buddy? Oh, well, I mean, we're we're free of football. I guess in a way except this af stuff came back or came back. We came to fruition. Finally last weekend. It seems like there's one or two decent teams that are worth watching than the other five or six or seven. I don't know are not where they'll maybe none of them are worth watching. Maybe I was just excited about football being back. But other than that. What do we have? We have basketball we've college as as Tate mentioned we're gonna over March madness winners we're gonna go over all star weekend. Our best bets we're going to take a ride on captain Morgan's make believe over Bo casino got a lot to cover in dip into the mail bag. But before I discuss any of that, I wanna get to Harry, Harry you or you're double dipping here. You are on your on a Joe house our Franjo houses podcast today. Right. Yeah. It was on a great guy. We had a good time talking about. Awesome assess weekend we through a little Tony Romo talk in there. And let me tell ya. We've or not all good. I've conceded, my demise or disdain for him. And he he skipped away. He does everything. Right. He does everything perfect. He's calling played the trooper bowl you sitting shots off hospital ten six inches from the Cup. You know me enjoyed a great time talking about that. We will pick the some other winners for this week of the call tournament you're at last year of Genesis open there in LA, and then we're talking who's gonna win majors this year we think's going to win a major this year. I'm gonna have to listen back to it. Because even though you're just at right now. I I find it hard to believe you spoke more than even a minute of those things anything. Nice about Tony Romo poly kid. Right. Can you believe she's turned his or is there? No way. No way. No way. No way. No way that. A little. Actually, put that shot on the hospital Taliban tend to make an unbelievable shot after that go. All right. That's more. Like it. Now, you're making excuses. That's good. All right. I'm gonna have to listen to that one thing. I was going to get to it at the end with Harry. But it drives me a little crazy brother, Brian. Maybe you could weigh in on this. But here's here's Harry into nutshell. Now, he gets I put his bets in legally. Of course, he he'll text me, and I'll fly right to Las Vegas and put in these pilots. But here's a typical bet from Harry, and you guys tell me, this, drives you crazy. All right. Harold betta parlay with with ABC E, right? And then early in the day will lose. So then he bounces back with BCD on a parlay. And then be losing. And so then he'll put in a night parlay with seed the in eight and then c and d win. And then here it is the next day. And what does he do Bri? What does he do? Oh, you had you say hedges he fucking too. I knew it. I mean, that's what he does. But everything Farley. And that's exactly how Donald listen. It's technically not a hatchet. It's an shot at the middle. It's a shot at a middle. Well, the thing is that's funny to Harry won't tell us he hedges until like the last second. I'll be like, oh, I did vote one hundred dollars on the top always assuming hedges, but it's not even a hedge because you washed with the same bed three times a race. Now, you're not bad. You're really getting like, right? And even lately, I'll take you Brad, like forty dollars each on these pilots. So now, it's all said and done when you're betting against the hotshots. You bet in the Salt Lake City Mormons what whatever it is you really look into bed to win like eight dollars. How is it a middle by the way, you just took only plus five and a half when the game straight up. I had the game plus four and a half when plants one two four win both. All right. I dunno. I dunno. Harry must be getting killed lately. I feel like he sent me so many. Not really it. Just seems like is. I mean, maybe winning actually one last pet. I'm sure he's got a golf winter for us down the road. But we'll listen to that. But it tastes getting bored. So let's talk March madness. We are now a month away from March madness in the NC, double A, torment least the conference tournaments that they are middle of March, right Tate. We're getting their starting March pretty much like that second weekend. You must be excited here Tate and Mark Titus on one shining podcast. It's picking up now. Well, we wanna do is. We went over. Brian brother, Bry reminded us of our our picks in the beginning of the year we picked winters, but now that we're a month out. We're going to take a look at the board and see who we want who's their best value who the best value is in the NC double A right now. Now, no surprise to cause at the top of the list. Taint? Does this surprise you at all? No. It's Duke surprises. No surprises dukes year. If you've watched any ESPN coverage, you know, that is due to your everything goes back to Duke every halftime shows about do everything is about Zion. That is the world that we're living in so plus one seven. Is almost modest. I mean, I thought there'd be in the minus at this point. But yeah, that's a good number for do. I don't remember. I think you're right there in over one we favor, but I don't remember something so low and in a while a month before the tournament, and you know, the trader is, you know, now, they have the freshman point guard sensation he was hurt and got back and got Barrett. And obviously I on they just that unbeatable. Trae Jones is the brother ties Jones place for the timber wolves. Now, the future point guard of the timber was you injury or whatever. But trae Jones, basically, you know, he helps with that defense because he actually talks on defense. And when do plays defense they're scary team. Have you know, probably the three best players on the floor at all times, whoever they play against. So that's that's a nice thing for them. But them being Virginia twice showing that they play at that level and play a composed game against a team. That's trying to suck the life out of you and make you play undisciplined. You know, that says a lot about how good they really are. Right. All right now, the number two team help me out here take that and seen them play much. See highlights have been Zog. They're plunged six fifty. They seem to beat all the Saint Mary's and the BYU's and the Utah states and all them are they are they are really legit team is the twenty seventeen team which was the team that went to the final four wins the title game loss to the tar heels hair. You remember that? And then we. And this team instead of Karnowski being guy for their team who was sort of a liability in the title game. Just you know, big kid from Poland was got that way to stay warm than work out in the final. But instead of him they have hatch Amirah who is a guy that has already gone up against Duke matched up with Zion can play that, you know, he he's a long guy that can basically play the three that a guy off the bench. Brandon Clark is a lot like Collins who they had that year. So they fit the same pedigree that they had twenty seventeen and for them to have those odds as the second best odds, I think that's a pretty good value for for what they bring value. All right. Well, let's see I wanna get the best value from ever. Now. Just rounding off the next few Virginia plus seven fifty Michigan. Plus, eight fifty Kentucky Tennessee ten to one. And it was first in the nation last week and wish can Michigan state twelve one your tar heels tater fourteen then Nevada Purdue twenty five to one Kansas all the way down to thirty two one. I think I think they're picking it up a little bit in Villanova. It's weird. You get Kansas and Villanova thirty two one. Then it gets a little sketchy parlay kid you look through this list. Who do you like who stands out? You know? So I think early years, bro. The bribe pointed out to us today that you know, we talked about the best values to start the season. I really liked the Virginia who I think was sitting at fifteen to one to start the year and also Michigan state south. You can believe it. They were forty two one start the year, which I thought was a credible for Tommaso team to get the forty two one. And I now I was as you could just mention there. They've what is it Virginia's plus seven fifty now Michigan state's twelve to one or something like that. So obviously, if we're just looking for value K, we'll talk I I I love what paid said about Duke. I mean to get them at plus one seventy wherever they are. There's a plus in front of them right now. How could you not love 'em? But at the same time, if we're talking about values just like you said Kansas Kansas popped up to me. But I'm gonna even go with the further along. Shot here. More cat sitting at forty five to one out of the biggies. They are ranked tenth in the nation. One in four overall too weird losses to Saint John's though this year right kinda strange. They've a premier player, Marcus Howard. They shoot forty percent of the team from three. I think that's a very solid number especially when come NC double A tournament time. They have a great young coach with a wo-. Joe's former Duke player so forty five to one Marquette twenty two four that ranked tenth in the nation, not bad value. So at all, yeah. Pretty good. Golden eagles. I like them the big east is really getting screwy now, really strange. But what are they they're five and one dimension against Kansas, Louisville, Kansas state, Wisconsin and buffalo. The who? Did they be those are all ranked in all right teams? They'd beat. I mentioned that even but then Villanova. That's really screwy lost it. They've had some unbelievable wins though. So no, they gotta premier player in the nation. And they they shoot. Well. So that bodes well usually come tournaments on. I like that. All right, brother Bry. What's your pick? All right. Well, I'll tell you. These odds that we have they're kind of all over the place depending on what site you're at. So I know you were saying before with dog plus six fifty five then today, plus six fifty of also seen them at nine to one today. So they've been anywhere from like the second highest for the six five so at nine to one I did think they were really good value. Like like with saying, I mean when you saw them early in the year, again, do they matched up really? Well, they had found with club Clark and hatch. You're more. They were dominating that whole game. And then also when they played Tennessee just two weeks later, they were leaving that whole second half. Again, it it was goldfield ended up having a huge second half. Which was the only real. They lost that game. Otherwise, they'd be the number one ranked team right now so nine to one odds I really liked that because they're going to be a number one seat. They're gonna be in the elite eight at that point when they're in the elite eight they're probably going to be like three to one plus three fifty. So I think nine to one odds right now a really good. And again, they're the one of the few teams that can be to unless gets upset by somebody else. There's no there's only like four or five teams that can be that can win. So unless Duke loses to somebody else, and then that seems and went, you know, so but right looking just head to head to head against you. I would say inside is probably the main team that could beat them. Again, you have Virginia that probably could beat them if they played a third or fourth time, but I just the nine to one odds to me were really good value. If you're looking for bigger odd, you mentioned Villanova thirty one dollars mess. Forty two one today. I mean, I think Jay, right? Definitely could make a little bit of running ornament. I think they've. Probably gonna end up winning the big east. They'll probably Marquette the next time the win the big east conference there. Also when the tournament that's the case, they probably get like a third of four seats. And again, they could make a little bit of a run. Yeah. The yeah. Those are the values that I like, yeah. I'm gonna jump in here. And then we'll let Harry go because I I'm using the same reasoning with Virginia at plus seven fifty and I've seen them at eight to one also because you thinking like these they should be a one-seat. I know it'd be tough some some they don't like giving a C c two one seeds. But I think all said and done they'll be a one seat or a high two seats. So if you're getting seven eight nine to one odds right there for a one or or a high to seed, I think there's good value in there. Yeah. And then you just hope for like Duke to get kicked off their. I I really think like Virginia had a shot against dude Duke seems to be thinking they can't be but was red hot. They hit like their first five three pointers in the first four minutes last Saturday, you know, hunters back. I think he plays with a chip on his shoulder. They have a nice show. They have nice. Wins that Wisconsin, Maryland, Florida state, Virginia Tech Tate's tar heels. You know, one seventy seven fifty for a one seat is nice. Tony bennett. He knows you knows what he's doing here is tone. You know, he's not gonna get bounced in the first round. That's for sure. I love that. Kyle guys probably like thirty thirty eight forty percent from beyond the arc. So they have some nice players have some guys in the middle that could play big. I saw this pretty good. I would like them to plus seven fifty how you're going to give someone like a ninety two one. Right. We don't care about not quite not quite. Actually, the seventh ranked Nevada wolf pack their twenty three and one like Brian said, you can they fluctuate too. He's saying at 'em. And I have both seen twenty five to one on them at Berkeley they've entered their only lost the season by beating Mexico on Saturday by twenty nine Eric Muslim on Muslim muscleman. It's a fun coach who likes to run and gun in more than I think a third of their games. They've scored ninety points or more or to Jordan Caroline is the real deal, and he's averaging a double double last Wednesday. He went from forty and twelve wolfback also led by twin brothers hail Martin. If getting like nineteen game while Cody Martin Lee in assists. They've experienced to from last year is they lost a tough one point game. I sh- loyal Chicago in the Sweet Sixteen. I think this team is poised and ready to make a serious run in the tournament. I think they can knock off the desire Virginia Hm Tate. Have you seen that? A play or just highlight. Just. Yeah. I mean, you know, we've we've had a few games that we've had to watch out there, and we're on the must bus fully and officially Mark Titus myself. So we're all on air Muslim. And there was also a good staff that saw go out today that engage would have had three days of prep. The winning percentages of the coach of the top ten and Eric most men was eighty percent of the same as ROY Williams and coach K was eighty one percent, Mark view. I think it was eighty five percent. So once you get in the tournament and teams and able to prepare get ready for certain games. You wanna have good coaches and Muslim and kinda passes that test. So I like that here. All right off forget guys that Nevada Sonetti game that I won't last year when they're down late twenty ten. That was the best right? Terrible weekend that that and that that got you on a winning streak bride, they'll do the tide turn. But there that was amazing. That was one of the most amazing comeback right about what we gonna say. Yeah. I was gonna say though, I think with the vodka to I think I mentioned this. I dunno one. I did. But I think they're starting five or all fifth year seniors, my correct when I say that Tate fifth year seniors players seniors, they're all transfers into that schools. Well, I thought I thought I'd had. Could be wrong that says a lot tournament. I may have five senior starters on on the floor that that's the helpful too. Yeah. Not going to back down. Yeah. All right. So we have a month before all this before all this gets figured out. But it's nice to review. So take you like in Zaka, you'd think of those and what the mid range or that. You like Virginia Tech as a team to watch. I think that's like sixty six and one that's like a more of a deep long shot. I also pulled up in South Carolina twenty four to one. I mean, I think that's pretty wild for a team that beat digging zag team that I'm talking about that that I like is the favourite I think it's going to be a Virginia Gonzaga kinda year. But that's just probably me being hope, you know, hopeful that Duke is not the team. All right. Let's switch gears go from college. The pro this weekend all star weekend and Charlotte the lot going on. I feel like LeBron really hoodwinked Jaanus in the draft who he who's on his team, Brian. He's got harden. Got brow. Yeah. He's got the rent. Davis durant. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's like, I don't think he drafted a whole all star team. It's ridiculous. But I actually their team team. Lebron is minus six on the spread. I don't remember them having a spread this early. But there's a lot of fun stuff going on the weekend. Maybe everyone's sick of it. Maybe it's on parley kid. What's your best bad? You can pick one out of the skills competition. Yeah. Reports dunk or all-star MVP or just the game itself. What do you like? Yeah. Well, I'm one of these guys that you talking about this kind of sick sick of it. I have no idea who's on what all star teams when you're talking. When did you just said that I know that doesn't sound impressive. But at all, but the pumps to you guys for even giving two craps about the game. I guess I think I think I really just not a lot to talk about. No. But you guys know who's on the team that that's pretty good. I really haven't. I I'm anti all star game. So I can't I don't like any of them anymore. Even the baseball game. I don't pay much attention to. So that's just the way it is. But I kinda like the skill competition. I think there's some stuff the bet on. So I think that's where forget the game itself, but the skill competition where at so so my guy this week is Joe Harris at nine to one and the three point shooting competition. What what really good value here with this guy? He, you know, he plays for the Brooklyn nets. This is a go averages thirteen point six points a game. So now he's made a hundred and twenty eight at a two hundred seventy five three point shots in real time this year, which is almost the forty seven percent shooting percentage, and you could get him at nine to one. He's almost towards the middle. Bottom of. This list here in terms of odd. Any might be the best report shooter in basketball. I know we have the curry brothers, and etc. Etc. And this this guy is sharp shooter. I'm definitely putting money on this guy at nine to one. That's great value for this report unit competition. No one is pretty good. What is it three rounds? We even know how it goes probably three around. I don't know. You know, I think as long as changing the rules. Well, there's ten guys I'm trying to figure out how they do this. But they'll figure it out the day up but nine to one is a lot. I mean, you got Dirk in there at fifteen to one probably not going to happen, and Danny green and Middleton. But that's a nice number there. The top four right, right? All right, Harry. What are you saying? What's the best value this weekend? I'm gonna go three point contest. Also. And this one's for you Tate. I'm gonna take fifteen to one Kemba Walker their own Charlotte Hornets to win the three point contest at home. What do you think about that too? I feel like curry would have been a better pick for the hometown kid. But I I love Kimba. So I'm I'm hoping he's, sir. I hope he shows up. That'd be nice best season ever twenty five game shooting. Thirty seven point thirty seven three point range. It's been hot lately. Do that last four games? He's twenty to forty seven long distance. Listen, you guys watch Walker will will hurry in his house at fifteen two one. Wow. Count the Tampa. All right. Yeah. They say that. I mean, I guess they know the rims better of their home. If it Steph curry or Kemba Walker Darren rebel pick Kemba Kemba. Walker also today on lock it in for three point contest, brother Bry. What do you like for value? Yeah. Well, I think the three point contest is probably the most fun this weekend. Because there's a lot of good participants than that. They're just so many good shooters though. It's it's almost impossible. Right. So really pick. Buddy hills and heroines like they were saying, it's so hard. So I actually what I'm gonna go with the dumb gonna go the rising stars challenge. I'm gonna take Donovan Mitchell when MVP at ten to one odds, look, I don't if you guys are familiar with this, obviously it's team USA versus the world. But I feel like team USA. Donovan Mitchell will probably be the alpha on this team. He's not going to be afraid to shoot thirty times in this game was ready in this game last year. I just get the sense that somebody he kind of reminded Donovan Mitchell not in the way plays but a little bit. Like Russell Westbrook in that. I think he's gonna care more than anybody in this game the last year when he played in this game yet you decent amount of shots at five seals. I feel like he's just the guy who's going to want to take over this game. I mean, he shoots twenty times game right now with Utah. So and when you look at stats in two thousand one the sophomores have won eleven of the last eighteen even though rookies won the last two so ten to one odds. Way better than if you're looking at Luca or Ben I really like those that's the one I think even FOX twelve to one might not be bad either. But if there's anybody who's gonna get forty points in this Anthony, I feel like it's going to be him. I like Mitchell he had some shooting woes early in the season. He's picked it up. Actually bet him tonight over twenty five and a half points against the warriors. No, not against the worst. Hell they point the point in the warriors the worst. If so I think I if the average is twenty two, but he's like twenty eight six out of the last eight or nine games. So he started there has been great. He's been really good. That's good. I feel like we're on the same page there. I'm gonna say slam dunk, John Colin wants to seventy five and here's my reasoning. He's a hawk. The hawks dominate does competition Dominique Wilkins Spud Webb. Josh myth. All winter. In fact, this is the only thing the hawks know how to do is win the stupid contest. So I like it. I like John Collins at plus two seventy five tape, which which one do you like? And then I wanna talk about something. I'm really serious about I want to get a push for potato. What do you do you like anything in these skills competitions? I like that a lot, but I'm gonna go dunk contest as well. A John Collins but Wake Forest, so that's another guy that being back North Carolina. Maybe he'll show out for people that are there. Dennis Smith junior just traded to the Knicks had his career high thirty with the Knicks. Yeah. Going back home in Charlotte kinda got snub bless, your, you know, Donovan Mitchell a little bit in the dunk contest. And I'm sure he's gonna that kid can fly. So he'll probably pull something out. So I would like that. I don't know what. The odds are though. I haven't looked at any of these ads. But I I'm sure that they're not great going into. I think he's plus two twenty five to win the dunk on data Smith. That is mitt plus two twenty five. All right. All right. I thought I thought. Yeah. I think that's what I'm seeing that too. All right. Listen, these are all good players. That's the point. So But here's what I was thinking everyone's talking about tanking and some guys we we have friends that love the tanking. They think it's a door -able that half the teams of tank in ready, and I know they made a little easier that the bottom three not easier but harder to tank because the bottom three is this, right? Get just as many ping pong balls as each other. So it doesn't matter if you're yeah. They only have like the bottom for you. All like, we're getting. That's what it is. All right. Well, yeah. But one in seven to getting done for the next for the Knicks. Yeah. All right. But how about this now parley kid, you remember this and brother Brier, remember when we played football right in in high school, how did most practices in aside from a prayer or putting our aunt together? What was the last real probably remember like us? You did like some wind sprints. Sometimes we would do like twenty forty yard sprints. Right. Right. Like twenty. Yeah. Okay. But sometimes we'd have five extra unless something happened. What what would have the hat? What would they call it peer pressure, right? Oppress pressure. We do like a appear pressure. Yeah. Like, they call you out. Somebody would punt the ball. I fifty feet NIA one hundred feet in the area you'd have to catch it or something. Like that dropped it. There's five more sprints or some something. Like that or? Yeah. Right. You pass. Yeah. One hundred and it was crazy because it brought everyone together. And. Yeah. Aided the guy. Let's make it simple parlay kids. Sometimes you you were the quarterback with varsity quarterback. It'd be like we have just on twenty sprints. We're all dying. Coach says this one's worth five. If Darren Scully could complete this thirty yard past the Chris Panza rela we're done with sprints. If not there's an extra five, and we're all like clapping, and we wanna hate the person if they drop it. But anyway, the point is this this should be how they settle who gets the first pick all of a sudden now you have to be good after being bad all year. You're the Knicks. You have to be good you designate a three point shooter. And he's in his three point contest and saying what the sons whatever they wanna do. And whoever drops the. Hawks the same thing. Don't you think as far as marketing what kind of special would that be what wouldn't that be greatest instead of picking frigging ping pong balls? Let's make you work. I mean, you get all I'm trying to think about who's in the context for the hawks. I guess trae Young's end for the hawks look at the Knicks. I don't know who the Nixon brother bride probably knows better than myself the Knicks app, maybe the Knicks just past. Maybe they just forget it. We can't do this. We'll take the night. What's wrong with that? Isn't it? And this is a much more fun way to do it. What about yourself? Are you saying sell than like in the all just using like the all star game for this or be the all star game? I think he'd have to wait until the end of the year. And when they actually do. Words single woman nation tournament for the teams that don't make the playoffs and the winter that term it gets the first pick some. Yeah, you can do that. I kinda just like, yeah. I mean, I like that too. I do I just like the one shot or a few shots or one minute. Just have the whole team isn't around watching. Yeah. That would be more taxpayer salad. Yeah. Why not fresher? I just realized brother wouldn't wouldn't jive with the draft. Right because the seasons the draft is when what month does the draft it's late June late June at Boca's last Thursday. Okay. So all these lottery teams are way out of it. They're not anywhere close to the playoffs. So I'm gonna make a Bush. They can do some. Yeah. They could do something like that during the finals during the playoffs. Crazy little tournament thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's my bad idea for the week. I have plenty of time. Got that brings us to another bad idea. No. This is a good one are sponsored segment. Captain morgan's. Make believe every vote casino each week. The degenerate traffic, and I set sail tackling fake propositions related to sports and pop culture events. All right now, the big thing this weekend zion's block, perhaps the most athletic thing I've ever seen. We're going to discuss that in a second. But he left the floor. You you look at that side angle. I can watch out one hundred times it doesn't make anything he's flying. He's actually flying Tate, right? Did you watch that? I watched it a few times I had to for for the good of the podcast. But I mean, it might help probably haunt me and my dreams for the next year. So until he leaves. Right. Three more months. Gotta stink it all. At least. It got captain Morgan thinking, you know, he runs this ship. He said, what is the single most athletic maneuver, you've seen from a human is it, and you can bet on this via Williamson's block the other day at seventy two odds is it Odell Beckham junior's catch versus Dallas four to one. Bo jackson. How about anything he's ever done five to one Michael Jordan's dunk? I think against the Knicks. That'd be the biggest one also five to one or the field at three two one. Let's get this conversation. Started parlay kid. What do you think? So I'm going to be taking the field. And let me set the stage. Few south's nineteen Ninety-three Madison Square Garden may twenty fifth Nick seven chance to go up two zero on the bulls leading ninety one to eighty eight two six foot two John Starks brings the ball floor for the Knicks playing side pick and roll Patrick Ewing. He feigns the middle of the four and drives to an open baseline gathering off to feet the undrafted guard from Oklahoma rose like a Phoenix with thunderous dunk while dislodging Horace grant's goggles while late arriving. Michael Jordan made in just enough time to be poster is forever. Wow. Went onto win that game. And then eventually lose the series, of course. But boy, I wish I could go back to that wonderful time of basketball take John Starks. The field three to one dunking over Horace Grant and Michael Jordan with his left hand. As Luttig feet. I've seen from a one individual one play take that new. Remember that Sal, we might have remember thing Jordan's dunk on the ball on a Knicks wasn't even the best in rival. Oh, wow. No starts was much better because he dunked over Georgia. Yeah. Which is play. He was a right and be played more. It's it's not replaying enough that one anybody's listened to go watch it the garden was literally collapsing that night on ABC yet up, by the way, first of all thank you for not saying Derrick jeeter stupid interception of that ball against the Oakland A's there. And then. That was that was over overrated sell down. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But also I thought from the same series. I thought you might mention Charles Smith missing eight free, eight layups eight lamps whole. Yeah. Yeah. That was costing the series. I think they signed him to a max deal like two days later. Stupidest thing I've ever saying. All right, Harry. What are you going to say? Well, you know, I'm gonna go. I'm going take the field as well. Look at three to one. I I was watching my catch today. You know that X NFL quarterback Vince, young threw it bans people Bo camp last, right? I think I'm gonna take myself. I mean, I'll tell you for forty seven I made one hell of the catch from a terrible dreadful pass. And that bell quarterback. I flip my body around. I actually undulated. That's right. I said undulated our laws. I undulated my body to get that passed that was so bad. I put my body around on a pass. It was supposed to go to left then threw it to the right and very short. I got my Mitch under its cured. It all in for legit catch that my neighbor. Larry FitzGerald would say it was pretty damn good neighbor to one. Yeah. You were there for that about two and a half minutes away. Should I was in complete and hit the ground? View would not have worked out. Well, for Harry that one that was like. Maybe you should put that back up on Twitter part like it just for everyone to once again love posting stuff on say, I mean what? Yeah. Harry posted a couple of times, you're sleeping that was pretty athletic. The way you popped up from a nap. Because a cat. There was some people commenting, your your roommate and boss Ken recorded, you sleeping, and it was I mean, it really looked like from the depths of the jungle what they caught there. And you're breathing heavy, and and we won't you up and some people commented on Twitter's like, hey, you're gonna get a guy a heart attack. And then other people said, no, no, I think he saved his life by way. I'm a comeback today's date three dieting again working out. I'm back. Okay. Good. I thought you were gonna say most athletic movements running in the pool to Audrey. But we're playing tennis against yourself. What was that? We have a lot of video of Harry Wright. So I convinced can consider themselves the most athletic. I am going to say, oh, Brian. What what do you think? That's okay. Yeah. We'll say to Harry's. Route was like the worst route ever he just tells Vince young. He's like I'm going to do how over out and link right there. Yeah. That but how over whatever he started backpedaling. Hit me at the brisket station about three now. Oh, man. I'll I'll say my. So what we saw from die on the other night. We've never really seen before. I think again, it was part of it was the hustle part of was the F lettuce when you first saw in live. I mean, I was I marveled at how he got from the other side of pre point line. So the other side of the block it regardless if it's the guy about five seconds shoot. But not not only that. But you didn't even realize until the other replay like yeah that he was flying or how I that. He actually got which mazing, and it almost seemed like he didn't even try to jump that high which was dying is one of the few athletes in history, that's like on another level. So right now, I mean, my order would probably be you have bow Jackson my favor. Now, you have LeBron probably die on. I don't know. Who else? I obviously there are others. But to me, those three athletically or on a different level. They're all kinda like superheroes. But I came home to budget and put phones Jones in there right now. We only Romo you. But it's just like these guys are just just got like, this another level athlete. So I would definitely go. Bo Jackson here. Again. He was my idol growing up. That's why became raider fan to me. He was the fastest player in the NFL that I've ever seen especially something that size kind of ridiculous. But right there were so many plays. So many crazy things he did against Denver. It was the one touchdown. He had where he ran over someone then hurdled another guy then ran over two guys at the same time. This is all on the same play. And then he's toward like a forty yard ran for forty yard. Nobody was within forty yards for touchdown. Then they had all the, you know, those crazy touchdown runs that he adding fangled he had that play where in baseball with the royals where he ran up the wall like a cat, which we've never seen anybody do after that you thought somebody would imitated that. But now they can't do that. He brought the prejudicing the meal was he broke the bat over his home that that. At one time without even try. Yeah. I mean, just he he barely even moves his arm and break the bat over helmet. So to me again, Bo anything he did was on another level Zayn is right there. So the me a not I like, I mean. Yeah, it's hard. I that's why I put it on the worst Bojan anything. Bo jackson. Did you didn't even mention the crunching against Bosworth who is the man right through him way. Back into the end zone. I like that. You know, what I I it goes against my grain to say this but much like Harry receiving a ball from a subpar quarterback in Vince young at the time. I'm gonna say old Dell Beckham junior did the same. When when Eli manning threw him that passed against the Cowboys and probably kid I could say this because the Cowboys ended up winning that game. But what was it was Brandon car was on him? They will probably first of all even seeing the ball and having the ball. And I understand these guys were sticky gloves and. Anything? But I watched that playback back about five times again today. And just if you go to any point women three seconds before a quarter second before he catches it. There's no way you put a percentage on what he's going to catch that. It's like zero zero one percent two percent at the toll in there. That was unbelievable. The way brought it in and how about this there. Six flags being thrown out. I'm like so that adds to the lack of concentration or the difficult being concentration. They're so good for you. It'll be JJ. It's probably the greatest thing he's ever done, you know, kicking that that that kicking that throwing kicking that around that was pretty athletic two. But good job, Harry. I'll give you a little give you a little heads up there. There you go. I would engage catch versus Dallas. What would you say take? I was gonna say I mean, this is before my time, but this is sort of the dunker in the play that I think about whenever I think about athleticism was Michael Jordan when he did the rock the cradle against Maryland in slim bias last play the game eighty four. This is his a year. He won national player of the year. He goes up and does that dunk in the Dean Smith goes crazy afterwards and makes run all day practice for showboating at the end of the game. But that was the first time that you saw a little bit of whom I go really was he went from you know, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing too. I got a little bit of flash to me. So and that dunk that he doesn't mean he flies literally in mid air in desert, right Maryland. And you know, I used to hate Maryland as a kid growing up. So to me that was the most athletic thing I've ever seen on a court, but Dominique Wilkins as a slight to him. Because he you know, I used to watch dunks that he did that they should just fly. You know, that was the whole joke was first and flight those two guys they literally flew in the air. And they I believe I could fly. That's why I became the whole the the the anthem for Space Jam. Yeah. That kim. One bias, do we think that dunk that me actually? Actually, it's if you haven't checked out that dunk it's worth looking at because Dean Smith is hilarious because he's going 'cause he's so embarrassed to go to left he'd Rozelle and apologize right after it happens. But it's a great moment. And then he had to run sprints the next day. He didn't have Sakala depends a relative back. All right. All right. All right. That's another week of captain mortgage. Make believe ever both casino. No matter how you live your cap, and captain Morgan reminds you please drink responsibly captain's orders now these guys sat out they didn't make a pick. We're gonna sharp tank right now. I know they're dying to make one is not a lot going on. There's af I don't people lines are up yet. It's Tuesday night. I don't think the the football lines are up or if I cared about it. Anyway, I know there's there's golf the Genesis open. All right. Let's start with you Harry. I think you're going golf, right? Yeah. I'm gonna go this week again or. I'm gonna go Saturday. I'm gonna take my. Yeah. I'm gonna go Saturday. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm gonna write with the all. Yeah. Yeah. Great joy, joy, I'm gonna go with a another hopping twenty th election, and I'm gonna take Scott at Scotland's Martin layered at three two one he loves playing here you've been tonight west year eight the year before that in two thousand sixteen you finish eleventh three straight top twenty at three to one. I think that's Baillieu Martin Laird three to one for the top twenty in the Genesis open it for all right? Martin Laird top twenty three to one Genesis seemed a little obvious. But we'll listen to the rest parlay kid. So I'm going to come off a nice weekend this week, and what the UFC when I had a par lay. Right. Yeah. So I'm going to pick with the UFC, and I'm gonna take and Gano over Velazquez. I know the odds for him knocking them out or not out yet. I would probably take the under in this fight. But in Ghana's, plus one forty to win this fight the let's stick with that. I can't believe I'm really taking him at this point off the you had a weird two thousand eighteen. Yeah. If you remember it started off the year where he was fighting St. bay ocean of the championship. He got absolutely hammered five around then he fought Derek Lewis, and it was about five total punches thrown in that fight. If you remember that. But then he hasn't dumped in performance over a very solid Curtis blade and a big win. So basically, my reason for taking him at this point is one he's plus money here. He's. Writing painful ask 'cause it was one of the all time greats, but he hasn't fought in two and a half years. So I said many injuries coming off of a major back issue and Ghana's been active at least he's been active and he's coming off his best one of his career over blades. So plus one forty so this this could be short work. I think, wow, I want the age difference between these guys I think it's I think in Ghana's thirty two thousand there's like five years, I think that's about a five year. But I think, you know, just in Ghana, I think he's just take his body's is taking a lot less, wear and tear too. That's my opinion Velasco's again, he might be fresh because he hasn't fought for two and a half years, but the ring rust and his body is just it really he said multiple multiple surgeries throughout his career. So I just think. This mad at one punch could end this pretty quickly here. And what's gonna what's going on our brother, Brian? What's your best of the weekend? I kinda liked there on bet there. I mean gone always think was originally like plus one seventy just a few days ago. Yeah. On it. But again. Yeah. Then Gon who's gonna win. He's got a win knockout probably pretty quick lasted, really good wrestler. So yeah. So deep it's rough. So, but I do like that. I think he definitely supplant point. Really by the blade on the good rest or too. So I mean, that's exactly so, but I'm gonna I'm sticking with the St. as well, I've had a good little run here with the, but I'm gonna go James BIC, minus one ten over Paul Felder on the in the same card. This is this is leading up today and gone off fight. This is actually at parking thick. And I'm wondering if Harry is going to this. Yeah. Harry talking stick resort arena. Harry. Let's go. Harry annoyed. You was there. But hurry. I buy that haven't even been there. Harry it sound like a craft store. Anything? I don't know why he would go. But that'd be been to that arena. Oh, yeah. That's that's where the funds. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. James vick. All right over Felder. Interesting. Well, but both guys again both guys coming on bad losses. But because one four five one three of four, but they've got knocked out to just get really bad. He came into that fight hockey the last time, but I just feel like in this fight. He's gonna come in a little bit smarter. You're gonna use his blank is much much taller than fell. There's gonna use the distance. I do love though, there's a commentator. I don't think he has best skill set. So unless he knocks to me unless he knocks out BIC early in the fight. I think this is going to be big fight to lose. That was actually it's one of those spice. I thought early on a bit was actually going to be lightly decent favorite. But as it turned out. Oh, there was the favorite. Although now money starting to come in on Bickel over here. So it's pretty even right now. But yeah to me, I just I just liked beca. All right. Let me look this over. I'm Ed really. It's it's sad. I appreciate the effort guys. But I'm just thinking a couple of weeks ago. We had Pat Mahomes Tom Brady, we had all these stars look at now, it's frigging James Vick, Martin Laird and McDonough over the last guest gotta. I gotta I gotta reconcile this. Right. Harry your bed. Martin mad. I'm gonna tell you right now. What happens with it? Because you've done this top twenty bed either loses or he comes in twentieth with thirteen guys, and you split that three to one thirteen ways. So I'm not interested, but you could add you should start hedging that. Now, I will say that. So that's top twenty brother Brian will know enough about this victim. I should have probably read up if I had known about I would have read up on it poly kid. I'm gonna go Nagai new over Velazquez. I'll go with you, plus one forty there we go. I like watching him fi did have that weird one. Who's that against the Derek Lewis takes his pants off? Right. Yeah. When he just wasn't one punch thrown flight three rounds by either guy was very strange. All right. I like the five years of substantial I like that the age difference. And it seems like he's he's the one they're gonna market if he gets a close decision, right? Overcame Velazquez for sure. 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Get so start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels by going to hotel tonight dot com or. Download the app now. Let's go to our mailbag cousin Sal against all odds, the g mail dot com. You could put yourself up for a degenerate hall of fame. General gamblers all fame we have it in Perot, Nevada. We're building it up. It's getting there about twelve thirteen members. Now, we voted someone in last week. We have a wetter from David dwar ski who is a current member two thousand seventeen and doc d said I felt I should check in. But you know, my membership can officially be renewed for another year after very lucrative Super Bowl Sunday Bill under bets I did what any- degenerate would do and enjoyed a nice relaxing Monday, and collected my winning except the complete opposite. Instead decided to make max bets on the second half of the meaningless college basketball game. Here's a screen shot includes a screen shot. Three bet you made on Iowa State, Oklahoma. If you haven't already heard, I was stated two free throws ago, four with three and a half seconds left all through my bets would have covered at that point. But a last the gambling gods at other ideas, the Oklahoma player decided to drive down and hit a meaningless three at the buzzer. And to add. Salt into my already gaping wound the shot was clearly released after the horn, of course, because they had no impact on the outcome of the game referees never reviewed it and the shot counted all three bets loss, David daursky was the one I don't know if you guys remember he bet a ignored his family. You lost twenty five hundred dollars at the dinner table, putting bets in online underneath the table. And then he's spotted us at shark's cove in Manhattan beach and didn't bother us. And that impressed me more than anything. That was when Harry lost the Brian. I think the the fourth of seventy I don't know what it was. But it was last year. What about this though, guys we saw this in Creighton Villanova not that Creighton didn't deserve the cover? But they were down nine they hit a floater way way. After the horn. They counted at seven which was a push the NCW has come out and said that they are now going to review any game ending basket. Whether it affects the outcome or not in at the March madness starting in the tournament, but not MS five weeks up until then. Has every dick Yetlis or not Brian? Yes. A little ridiculous because I mean, we've seen this happen two or three times. Now. Right late news games. Which is nuts. I mean, the fact that with, you know, the legalization of gambling the fact that they aren't I mean makes it seem a little fishy that they aren't reviewing right. I mean, that's that's definitely seems Bishop of why would you just go back and say all right that obviously clearly after the buzzer, and it's not gonna count. Because now, you know, everybody just assumes. Oh, man. Somebody's on the take here for that one or somebody's. But yeah, it's dumb. Why? Why wait? Why why can't they do this? Now. It's not hard. They could even wait if they wanted to like, you know, a couple of minutes after the game, whatever just make sure it's right. Yeah. But they'll make it official really pending get everyone off the court take a look at it. But what did just get it? Right. Is right. I don't understand why they acknowledged that. It's wrong that they're letting these things fly, but they're going to let it go another five weeks like this. What they do that in the pro football players. We're gonna make an exception for the Super Bowl. But for now. Now on holding. You know, you can you can't review it, but you'll be able to see eye in the sky at come Super Bowl doesn't make any sense, Harry. What do you think about that? Well, I think do give David credit. I do remember the story to his baton in that it was pretty brutal in that again here. You have a nice Sunday. Can't keep the money in your pocket you go better stupid game. And not only lose the game. I feel is pain. You lose on the crap. Call. So you know, we're gonna vote again. Maybe I vote David back in again for another year because I can see I understand that totally. No, I don't think it renews. No. Here's how the whole thing works and really any hall of fame. Harry went kind of hand, you don't need to start like, operas license. Fame. I'm out. I like it. What's wrong with him? Oh. Katie Modin cousin south. Thank you for choosing. By Email to read on your podcast last month. It was fun here. I thought I tend you update Email. So no one has to continue wondering if I name my baby, boy, Harry Tate. Yes. We remember this lady she used sent an Email. She's debating about Harry Tate. She was wondering, I think I think Kate. I think you I think you poison the well there you said everyone's gonna call him Harry taint. And I think she might have heard that because she says, unfortunately, it looks like I won't be joining the generate hall of fame as I obviously did not play plus my baby with an epic names, such as Harry Tate. However, you may still appreciate his name Madden. Michael modin? That's that's true. Madden madden. Michael Modin take. What do you think of that? Is that better than Harry Tate? That's the alliterate at least I mean triple in. She did get you got mad and in there. So you got the football thing. Michael boden. Apollo kid. What do you have a Michael? You. Don't have a mad strong name. Yeah. Strong name. I like it. Yeah. Am right three. All right. I like the Harry Tate a little bit better. But they she sent a picture of the babies adorable. Congratulations than thank you for checking up on us having another baby. If you keep having babies, eventually, you're not there named one of them, Harry Tate. Right. Thanks, katie. All right. If you wanna reach out to us it's cousin Sal against all odds at g mail dot com. Now, let's follow up with the fellas brother Bri. I think I the Knicks. You continue to watch him you continue. Yeah. Even this trade. I think paulie, can I think for a minute you thought this trade might have worked out for a second. I know you didn't like giving up four thing is either of you polychaete, brother, Brian. But for a minute you like he thought he thought it was gonna work out. Right. Oh well for me. I feel Darren thought it was gonna work out. Maybe after the fact, but I I hate it. I still hate it. Just because. Fine. I get it. If at some point you had to train them. But obviously when when it comes out these other GM's like wait a second. We didn't even know KP was available. And then the fact that I'm not a big Dennis Nick junior fan. I know some expense like them. But I thought they could a gun they could have gotten more maybe not with the picks and everything, but you know, they get credit for oh, we're dumping heartily salary. We're dumping Hardaway salary. But it's like all right. Well, you're the same guys that you know, parlay can I thought so Hardaway binding was awful to begin with. So oh, great job by getting rid of the guy who just find to sucks anyway. So I don't know. I was just mad at the whole thing. All right now, the one thing we saw. Yes, I think the action network posted this Nick, if you put a hundred dollars against the next I guess on the money line, which be crazy. Some of these games, it'd be winning like like eleven dollars or something. But if you did that what do they have seventeen in? I mean losses Bri seventy. Ninety three twenty two you net nine thousand three hundred twenty two dollars on the hundred. Where are we? I mean, I guess we shouldn't have figured seventeen, but that's a lot of money just off one hundred dollars. Well, I don't know what we're gonna do brother Bry. Where are you? You're at at the right? Yeah. Met T brother Bry. Yeah. Trying to figure out things that we'd about. Yeah. Not a lot going on. But I know Darin parlay kit, you can get into it. He's he's a little upset still. So all right. Yeah. We'll get to him in the second for further Bri. You did. Have you hit a little slumping a little with the with the wrestling at the college wrestling wrestling wrestling weekend because I last week. I wanted to do I've gotten mad at the. I mean, I for as much as I love wrestling. I've gotten mad at it. Because you know, they put out these betting odds, and then I wanted to bed Penn State against house last weekend. But then it's like, you don't know who's in the lineup until three seconds before the match starts. And by the time, you know, who's in the lineup. Then all of a sudden the odds are off the board. So I was getting so mad at that. But I should've just let it was. That was my phone. All right at the brother, Brian, Harry, where are you coming from? I'm at a a oh. Harry. And again, this given got enough of me check me out on Joe housing podcast called way rolling where we talk golf outing. And of course betting on call. I love it. All right. Are we going to get to listen to it this summer Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I'm already getting slammed on Twitter already. So you are because he posted he posted it the house talks to to ringer staffers. And again and a gambler about all the top. Oh, no, no, no. It's only gonna get better. I mustn't Rushton. Mike before let me tell story era, this really missile really boost your cue rating here, I think you'd just you. I've now heard about it from a few people. But I think you told us last week. What is the morning routine now with you and your boss with as it relates to coffee? Oh, well, I jet out in the morning, yet indirect assed which includes a small coffee with just cream and by the time, I get return. Sometimes it's not as liking in terms of how warm coffee is right. So what you know? We can all understand that if you call dollar stand. So now. I am to check the temperature of the cough, and it needs to be anywhere from one forty five to one sixty and by and once the thermometer you had a by thermometer for yes. Yeah. One forty five one sixty it's good enough to give them. Okay. And I heard it was when even further than that. If you had them coffee that is not in that range that you lose a day off that true. Get your life. But I think that I I heard that. That's the case it may happen now that's not official. But that that that could have. Just. Hey, what do you think of this? This is insane digits servant. Oh. No back you ever mighty wave. Right. Okay. Throw in the microwave for fifteen seconds, a little trial and error. You'll figure it out if the right numbers fifteen or twenty five or eight or something no unit. The mama for this them. Yeah. Jenny to can get it can get too hot. Ari? It can that's got hold off a little bit until I give it to them. Probably wait another minute. You know? Again. This is the dumbest thing I I don't know. We may have to tell Vince young about this. Well, this is unbelievable. All right. I kid you're fired up. You have all Twitter fired up, your your followers in the Moines are furious that section eleven athletics. Tell everybody want. Well, some you know, my son Kyle's the on the high school basketball team. They got a good team. They've had a nice year. They seventeen four they're in the final eight of their class say playoffs here, it probably really got hosed with the seating being that big on a five seed and probably should have really been no worse than a four and probably three being that they'd beat the three seed by twenty points, she but whatever all right with the five seeds. We have to go to wind. And so you're very familiar with the school wind dad, of course, as on. We used to play them in football. And on Friday nights. You would prank the players of wind. Dad, you go through the white pages and call every one of their houses and pretend new coach Coosa mono. And want to know why they weren't home yet or stuff like that? That's what used to do kind of funny. Well, I didn't get to play a lot that year. So that that was my way of the injecting myself into the game Ryan Hoyer of that's exactly right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So so anyways out two weeks ago wine danced had a brawl at the end of their basketball game. Not even involving the other team at involved their own spectators fighting each other, okay players were also involved. There's video footage jamais like New York channel four channel NBC ABC CBS news here as well. As the local news here all over the place those big brawl, so now wind engines cracking down on security, and they're not allowing certain members of families like uncle and the come to the game tomorrow for a point of. This could be my son's last game. And what's it saying is brother Bry can't go because he's not a parent or member of the student body? This is only because sexually Levin. The first place gave wine dancing home game. They can control where the game is played. They never should have allowed. Why that's a home game. They had abroad last year as well. This happens that usually at least once a year there, and there's you know, a lot of security issues at that school and just not right that that eliminate security limiting spectators on the on our side. Oh, why not play the neutral site that? If they're worried about it when I wanna play John Glenn. This isn't this isn't a John Lennon is the wind at you, should it's affecting the members of the Glenn community the Ellwood community one. It should not be at all. So. So bad job. I suck. She eleven of not doing the right thing. And making sure why did not have a home game in these basketball playoffs. That's so uncle brother Bry cancer. So what are they doing it? Again. We're gonna get brother pry, I'm gonna have to sneak into play. Yeah. He though to prove that your student students have to show ID parents. I think they're going to have a list. I of parents that will be there grandparents that's who's a lot to come like, I right now, I don't even think siblings would be allowed to come older sibling. It's it is rain stupidest thing I've ever signed from getting you making sure your bosses coffee is an exact temperature. This might be the dumbest single dumbest thing I've ever heard my life. Yeah. This is the fact that such eleven is letting wind edge dictate these rules, which is incredible. So they're the governing body. They should they really at fault here for this all round all around. It's a terrible. Job by them. Terrible. Right. All right. I'm why everyone fighting now. I don't know. Maybe everyone's fighting you go to a game. You should just be like the parlay kid. Just hate your son and your other son has playing don't worry. Don't take the other fans. Right. Take your frustration out on the biggest by my son's biggest fan. I can't wait for this game south. This is going to be fantastic. I could be a great game. It's gonna be great game. But no one hundred percent behind this team. Yeah farley. We get odds out again. He wants to line on the game. Yeah. In a fight. Let's just get on the officials. I will. I will ride officials that they're making bad call. There's no doubt about that. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Brian knows why. Because of the home team, I was gonna say they're like, minus one and a half. It's pretty much a bribe pick eight and a half. And I think Glenn won by nine last week. Right. Yeah. You're right in. All right. All right, go go. Kyle go day. Sean bring it home make it to the final four Tate. If you've ever heard anything like that. Yes. Of course, that is a high school basketball. I've never heard about banning of the family members. That's a that's some next level. Especially an uncle Phil and uncles close stuff. I gotta say maybe just trying to limit the amount of people that come into the game. So they've restricted it. I mean, it's mind boggling it shouldn't matter on our side who comes into the game or not really we have nothing to do with the fact that their own fans forty other two weeks ago, I use brawl precis we weren't allowed to be fair to section eleven now and the an uncle uncle brother bride. They're probably eighty percent of those involved in the ball were uncle of players. Wind it right? Isn't that? How it goes? I don't know. Brian. I I do think you're a security risk. Just people just by association some of these people hearing on the podcast, but all right parlay kid. Keep us updated on Twitter where where are you talk yourself at the chalk Docker? Yeah. All right. Say, hey, where where are you UNC? You still have two games against Duke. At Cameron indoor next Wednesday night, which will be a game. And then we got Carolina Duca play at Carolina in early March. And then what they see tournament. So there's a lot to go and that Zion saga Nazir little are ours. I on counterpart, I guess on on our side of things with down to injury. So let's keep an eye on hopefully, he'll be healthy next Wednesday. Yeah. But college basketball, one shining podcast myself Mark Titus two times a week. Now talking about all the games and then against all odds every Wednesday. That's all it is very good. But we're very excited about one shining podcast getting down to the nitty gritty. I'm sad to see that. The GM report has gone one training podcast GM SRI rather one trying very similar very as informative but probably thirty or thirty five you're half bombs. Right. I think it's twenty five that's the line of F bombs going into okay? But play five. All right. That'll do it for another episode of against the lies. What cousins? Watch locking in Monday through Friday, four thirty five thirty eastern on f s one Jimmy Kimmel live Levin thirty five tonight in every weeknight on ABC. That's that for the degenerate, try factor and master Tate Frazier. I'm south saying so long and happy handicapping. Boats L tonight makes it easy to book. Awesome hotels at amazing rates there like a matchmaker between top rated hotels with unsold rooms and people who wanna put those rooms and hotel tonight isn't just for last minute booking. 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Against All Odds with Cousin Sal
Aired Last week 91:05
Carol Ellis' Camp Fear
Hello teen. Creeps listeners Kelly here before we get to today's show. We have to tell you about an incredible new podcast from forever dog called comic book commentary. If you're a fan of comics and graphic novels comic book commentary was made for each week. A different comics writer walks you through one of their newest books page by page panel by panel sharing behind the scene stories and sue much more. It's like a DVD commentary track hosted by the most cutting edge voices in comics, providing an indepth look at how comics are made. And what they mean on recent episodes. You can hear sign agrees. Talk about cemented iceman as a queer hero within the X men universe. Zoe Quinn share how she turned her battle with misogynist internet. Trolls into comics guild, plus tons of hidden secrets behind the latest issues of captain marvel doctor strange and daredevil as well as your favourite. Alton independent comics curated by Ben blacker. The host of the writers panel and co creator of the thrilling adventure hour comic. Book commentary is available wherever you find podcasts. New episodes every Wednesday. Hey, guys before we get started with this episode. He wanted to talk to you about one of our sponsors, better health dot com. We are all stressed out. And unhappy would standing between you and Abby nece is at you are your own feelings, a roadblock. Prevent you from achieving your goals. Yes. All the time. I am often sitting in paralysis thinking about all the things I have to do. And then I never do them. Have you thought about talking to someone, but you're uncertain or unsure of where to start better help dot com? Online counseling is there for you Lindsay. And I always talk about how everybody can benefit from therapy better. Help makes it easy to connect. 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This week on the pot. Carol Ellis's camp fear. Welcome to teen. Creeps the podcast that discusses why Pulp Fiction, I'm one of your host Lindsay, Kate. I'm to one of your hosts Kelly Nugent, and it is camp fear not the movie, but the book by Carol LS, which is equally famous equally famous bus so famous. It's okay. This is going to be a really dumb question that maybe we should have gone to before is the book related to the movie. I don't think so can't fear movie. What am pota- Robert deniro, stocking family on vacation? Oh is that what it is? Yeah. Four point one out of ten on. I'm not good, really. But it's a classic. What we what? Okay, hold on. Because that episode of the Simpsons is based off of it shapely coeds fall prey to a giant druid who wants. None. Here. You're thinking of Cape fear. This is I'm not even embarrassed because I've lost my ability to be embarrassed about things like this. Because I do it so often I was during Robert deniro in like intense. Prosthetics. See being like a tree per injuring him in a bikini. Shapely coed. Having a very Robert deniro shape. Cape fear, and I refuse to feel bad because it's not my fault. Here's the thing. So go fuck yourself. Alec. Alec was being politically really trying to embarrass me. No. He wasn't there. He's trying to help. No. He was trying to let you know before. I knew so that you could both. What's he trying to team me look at that? Yes. Before you. So I like my decided that's not the case. But between us, you don't know ally. The history canto you for bras. Hose at my has your mind. Cert- calling the tinkering listeners hose what up house new? Yup. What my creep, whatever. My teen. He creepy has. We'll think about that. Okay. So camp fear is not I mean from the synopsis of this movie. Yes, that's more interesting than what we read. Yes. In fact, you reading the summary of that movie was a real thrill ride. It's. I was like no Kelly or whenever. Movie called camp fear t- movies called camp fear. Okay. Do you want me to read the back? Yes. So we can see let's just see proper to Niro's a young teen. The past can't hurt you remembered to stuff some stuff, summa chef summa. We just watched that video of the Australian newscasters reacting to a giant shark footage. It's very funny. You should watch it if you can I mean, I need that stuff summer Australians, and then found it. And then they're the. That is the biggest shock. I've ever seen the past can't hurt you. It can kill you. Almost everyone at camps. Overlake is afraid of something creepy crawlies snakes swimming in the lake, but there is a much deeper darker fear shared by some of the counselors, Kim saloon, I have the British books. So it's the British spelling of counselors now. I see some counselors the fear that one terrible secret. They share we'll be discovered for seven years. They've kept it hidden ever since the summer when they work campers themselves, the summer one camper didn't make it home a line. Now, someone is using your secret and their fears. Oh, they're secret. And there. To play and their capes. A case to play a terrifying. Game of vengeance. A game that could turn deadly. Well, I want to know more about Cape fear, so fear. Is it a is it a convict out to get his revenge is should it comedy? Is it a comedy? Is it like analyze this? Oh, okay. Wait. Have you seen Cape? Fear. Lindsey. No, okay. That's why I'm asking you about it came out in nineteen Ninety-one. They are the same. I'm so sorry. Wait, hold on. Cape fear is a remake. Okay. Here we go. Here we go. Everybody wants to know what? Okay. Scenery dot was impressive. When attorney Sam Bowden Boden. Withholds evidence that would acquit violent sex offender max, Katie of rape charges max Pence fourteen years in prison. Ooh. But after Max's release knowingly. Well, here's the thing. We do it yet withholds evidence that would acquit violent sex offender. So is he gonna know if he is? Because otherwise, I don't know who to trust. Exactly. So guess who plays Sam the African lawyer? It's it's Martin Scorsese Robert deniro, Robert deniro, Robert deniro. It's like. Faster in Cape fear. He plays his own mom. Here. So then sorting Nick Nolte is is Sam how is Nick Nolte not the villain. Sorry. Who saw this and went, oh, no that poor normal man being chased. Then Robert deniro stocks and devotes his life to stuck in destroying the boat and family when practical attempts to stop max fail. Sam realizes that he must act outside the law to protect his wife and daughter in Martin Scorsese's remake of the classic nineteen. Sixty two thriller camp fear, nineteen ninety one. I think there's a porn star in it. Because her name is just savannah sounds right? We got to watch this. Okay camp. Fear shapely co EDS. Giant druid? We jar. Would won't because it is a porn. No. Thank you. Who might be IBM point. Well, let's see. What's it rated? I mean, what's your definite your personal definition of porn? It says horror romance inside Fiso. It doesn't say porn as John RIA. Okay. Do you want to hear the hyandi? I'm so porn together. Point is so embarrassing. I tried to watch. Okay. Some sorority sisters opt for camping in the woods with a handsome professor instead of a poem spring instead of a pom pom bring spring break. However there orgies into. You learn when some truths say decide they need to sacrifice to prevent the boggling at the set of the new millennium. Okay. Hope I know why. Okay. Who nine four point one stars? As camp fear. Fear. Okay. What is there? Can't fear camp fear, Amazon rotten tomatoes. Here we go. It just says this is a porn. There are no it's it's why. Why it's rated with your. What makes it not a porn? Can you want to hear yet another summary? Guess I do a clueless group of sorority sisters inadvertently triggers the apocalypse when they set out on a weekend camping trip in this unhinged. Schlock classic starring Betsy Russell and Vince van Patten when a group of beautiful young campers arrives at a secluded website that mistakenly assume alone, I'm sorry. I can't they mistakenly assume they're alone. Secluded website. There on the dark web. They mistakenly assume they're alone until a gang of medicine bikers shows up to harass and terrorize them as if that wasn't enough to ruin a relaxing weekend in the country. Misery ruin giant is soon. Constructing a moss stone in on which to commit human sacrifices, and a Lucknow's monster has abandoned his watery, home and taken to terra firma to feast on human flash. Let's just watch that instead of talking about this boring book I want to earthquakes lasers the Lumbanga. And since. Sexy starlet Michelle Bauer this weekend getaway. Maybe the last batch for humanity to we need to get Oscar back here, we have to what is the Lombardo to dance. I think I'm Buddah dance from putter. But if you can. Okay. Different mixes of dances such as photo south set, mitigate Mexico say I don't know how to say that word, I'm sorry and Kareem Bo partner dance arched legs. Ballroom. Sounds like ballroom side to side, turning and swaying pronounced movement of the hips. I'm fairly sure that I remember hearing the word Lombarda in dirty, dancing, the dance. I think you're right and the dad's has become associated with short skirts in long trousers, especially women wearing short skirts that squirrel up when the woman spins around typically revealing ninety style thong underwear. Nineties style problem where they're supposed to nineteen thirties style somewhere like or just pants. Someone's like, Jeff. Wikipedia entry ninety style. Thong underwear like Cisco. Song to Hong Kong thong. Wow. Okay. What we learned a lot about camp. Fear should watch. It. I think and I think that is so. Nelson's much for tuning in you guys. This book is thin. The weird thing is it's not thin. But it's thin the stories then why don't you tell us just kinda what happened for staff to rip up? Alex. Camp. Fear. Cape fear rude. In your. And he's going to do you another piece of paper. And did that thing where you're trying to like if you shake out a sheet and hit his rebellious? You know, what is a terrible thing. Alec. Good. Oh, you can work. You can drive. A now, you're just Mr. know it all oh, are you reading Nietzsche? Now. I'll do you wanna tangerine. Do you really? Mary guide Matana during much with his mouth like he was going to get a bottle. Yeah. Like like like, he was a fish. No, no, no. E for west. Anyway, he knew how to bait me back into a yell. Yeah. Okay. Lindsey tell us what happens in this book. Okay. Well, girl by the name of Rachel Owens is going to work as a counselor at camp Silverlake. And she is there with some other counselors there are seeds in that of which there are fifty we have older so many there's and some of them are twenty or you have two of them are like in their twenties. Michelle read about them when they I know I finally remembered they got introduced in the beginning. But like two thirds of the way through and there were like in Tim, and Michelle will I was like who the fuck are Tim and Michelle has they're the older. They don't really hang out with them in charge counselors. So it's like before the kids are going to show up for camp. We've got our protagonist. Rachel owns. We've got Jordan who does not seem to have a last name. I don't even remember who Jordan is Jordan's the who likes her more than she likes. That's right. He keeps. He's got the coming up to her when she's looking at Paul. Yes. We've got Jordan. We have Steve Michaels. The joker tall long face thick sandy hair. We've got Mark James white blonde hair supposedly giant jerk except that like Rachel has bad judgment. When it comes to this. She thinks anybody who is like not nice even under stressful. Circumstances is a giant dick even though she's the one who's being addiction that moment, which we can talk about. We've got Paul Sydney, the boy that she likes more who's got. I don't see. I know he has Hazel eyes. I've lost track of what is Harris. We've got Linda Dolan. She's got red hair, and amber colored eyes got Theresa Montrose small with short dark hair and a shy smile. Just my mom. We've got Stacie Brunswick blonde hair, a complainer, but she's rich. She brings snacks. She's generous generous very generous complainer, but generous hurry says Cheyenne as indicated by her smile, Paul is quiet and kind of broody. Oh, yeah. And then Tim and Michelle in their twenties head counselors in charge of the others. But they're like a barely in the story. I says several more older counselors would arrive sometime before. Sometime before it open and one other children arriving remains to be seen unknown. Children. Never arrive. It doesn't even say it here. It does. It does say other counselors are show isolate it never mentioned children. They like bizarre. They also like say to each other a lot like we'll just wait 'til the kids get here. And I'm like when but one of the it's never we never find. How long are you guys by yourself? I think that you're just at a camp just said it camp for them. This is like rich camp for their seven seven campers, and they're all like seventeen it makes knows. They're like at least a week goes by and not only are the campers. Not there the other counselors never show up. It's like days days, and there aren't any like where's the camp? Who runs the camp who runs the camp who owned Owen? We've also got Mr. Drummond. The all bald scary, very BDI Kremlin's keeper. And he is only creepy in that he is tall, quiet and both. He literally doesn't do anything creepy. He doesn't do a single thing. All he does is say like, hey, everything. All right over here. Great by. That's like. Yeah. And then he like kind of tries to talk to to what's makers, Rachel, Rachel to Rachel. And she's like she like is so weird up by him that she's talking super loud. Then choosing. I I put up some photos the beginning. Also are dumb task for her to be. She is really happy with it though. So enjoying creating a billboard of. Years passed with photos of years pass to be like twenty years. Happy times at camp Silverlake. I have a question. Yes. So I'll allow it just to get it out in the open. We know Jordan's loss name who cares. Who cares? I didn't even care. Okay. I have a question. Yes. Just to get it out in the open who the fuck do. You think you are? No. I'm just gonna. That's a good question. That's fair. I act like I think I'm somewhere that like, I don't think I met you. Okay. So the whole thing is that like someone died at the camp. Yeah. Little started. Johnny the kid Johnny the kid dies at the camp. How he just like fell? He fell off a like steep edge. Okay. Why didn't you get 'cause they were going to get out? Stacey specifically, Steve Mark. And Stacey told him that they heard noises, and if he went and checked to see if it was Mr. Drummond being creepy than they would stop bullying him. And then in his checking heave fell. Yeah. He trips and falls to a we're not like off a cliff, but off a very steep hill. And he breaks his neck when he hits Brocker false over something. And then one of the kids the next morning while looking for firewood finds his body do anything, it's Mark. I think that that's why Mark is afraid of heights is because he falls, and when he falls he sees Johnny's body. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good theory. I'm yeah. I was checking to see if they say a name, they don't say any names. I don't even think they explained it later on. No, they don't they don't say like, oh when I'm the one of them. Hey, everybody. This is Kelly wanted to take a quick break from the show to talk about one of our sponsors care dot com. Care dot com is the easy and reliable way. To find an managed care for everyone. In the family for caregivers care dot com is a job and benefit hub, offering full and part-time care employment plus access to benefits one great way to get that cash money baby is to use care dot com. You can find a job you'll love whether you're having fun watching a group of kids or helping his senior with their day to day life. You have the chance to find work that's fulfilling to you. And it's flexible you can get part time weekend seasonal every family's needs are different. You can find one that matches yours, and it's a great way to earn that extra income on the side, picking up a sitter job here. And there is a great source of supplemental income so that way, you can treat yourself plan ahead for times when you think you'll need extra money. So you can apply early care dot com is the world's largest online destination for finding caregiver jobs providing access to millions of. Jobs across more than twenty countries. A caregiver is matched to a job. Every three minutes. You can find jobs in all types of care. Childcare pet care senior care home care. An all experienced types are welcome from weakened sitters to career caregivers and getting started is easy joint free to search for an apply to local jobs care dot com. Is so easy to use. There were so many jobs right near my home when I put in my zip code, and if you're using dot com to find help it's super easy to post a job and receive responses from caregivers near you. And it's really easy to find a caregiver to watch little noodle a late when I need a cat sitter. So how do we get you on board with care dot com? It's free to join visit care dot com slash teen. Creeps to sign up and find jobs that fit your life. That's care dot com slash teen. Creeps to sign up and find jobs that fit your life. And now back to the show. So everyone has something they're afraid of which I also thought was really funny because so they're all like sharing the thing that they're afraid of and then to each other. And then like the not killer because it's not a killer. It's just like the scarier on the person who's scaring people exposes them to that fear, basically. And it's so funny because. When Rachel shares her for you can tell that the person was probably like fuck God. I can't make this happen. Yeah. She's like, I don't know public. Speaking in front of hundreds of people get stage fright. It's like, I guess I have to drain for action. Godly pin? That was so, and so the whole thing is that it's supposed to be that Theresa Linda and Rachel weren't there. Yeah. Seven years ago. So like as campers. Steve, Jordan, Mark. Stacey. And Paul we're all there. And Paul Theresa. I don't know. I guess they released. I don't think Theresa was there. Yeah. 'cause member trees the headlight questions too. Yeah. You're right. And then and Linda wasn't even there. Linda, Linda, the one doing everything. Because she was Johnny sister. And Johnny was writing to her about how he's being bullied by. Steve Mark Stacey. And to a lesser extent. Jordan who like wasn't instigating, but was just going along with everything and Paul never bullied. And he wishes that he'd got more involved in stood up for him. So she knew she had a feeling that they had something to do with him venturing out of his tent late at night and as finally comeback as a counselor to get her revenge. 'cause this was when they were like ten and eleven. Yeah. Okay. So oh, yeah. And she just tortures them by like, you said, exposing them to their fear. So for thinking do it to Stacey. She oh, she fi out about Stacy's fear because Steve is like being a big like a goofy clown and lift Stacey up in throws her in the water, and she freaks out because even though she can swim. She's afraid of lakes because she doesn't know what's like in them. And then when that happens Stacy's like, oh, yeah. We'll you're like a really afraid of. Snakes. Yep. And stews like I'm snoop. So what? And then Linda like logs that too. And then they're like hiking, and this is when Rachel Tim, you feel like Rachel was being unreasonable when it came to Mark, Jordan, what was happening here in calling them a jerk for like, no reason. Oh, she was like, she hated Mark. Because like he didn't wanna keep walking on the hike cause he's afraid of heights. And he was getting touchy about her calling him on it. And I'm sorry. But like he's allowed to be touchy about being afraid of heights. He's like embarrassed. He just wanted. Why do it wasn't? She minding her own damn business. I didn't get that. She was like I didn't get why she was doing that. So she's so did stay away from the like, hi, Mark pretends that his he like tying a shoelace. And Rachel everybody else has gone ahead. And Rachel's like L, Mark is not near Sheila is, you know. He's like, yeah. It's like, oh, do you want me to help y'all? I'm really good at not. So is really when she was like, let me do it. He's like new on good. No, thanks. And she's like, why are you being so weird about your shoelace? And in my opinion, she's being weird about the she let it go. And he's like just go. I'm fine. I don't need your help. And she's like, oh my God. What if fucking psycho? I when she was like getting that worked up. I thought maybe she had a crush on him. Because like I was like why don't you just leave them alone? They might she needs to be up in his business about the shoe. I think she just wanted every guy in there. Don't be in love with her. She did she did because she was like, isn't it funny and crazy that link Paul Android or nerve fighting over me influence? Weird. And it's like, I don't know if I had to say who I I guess I'd say Paul even though Jordan is like all over me. Yeah. She she's not like we are exaggerating. But there's something about Rachel that really yours, and it started with this where she's like, oh my God. That Mark is like so mean, he's so mean he's so mean because I was trying to tie his shoelace. And he wouldn't let me and then she realizes that. It's just that he's afraid of heights. And then she's like matter at him makes fun of him for it. And so she she kind of makes fun of him to Linda -tarian Stacey. And then that's when Linda finds out that marks afraid of heights. So that she can scare him with that later on. Yeah. Yeah. And then, oh, isn't it convenient how the people that? She doesn't need to scare. We have no idea what they're for. We'll also like the ways that she scares them to are so dumb and low stakes aside from the rattlesnake. The rattlesnake is scary because you could get bit, and that's very bad. And how did she get it in there? No idea. She's like a pro snake Wrangler? Yeah. This is of like villain. That is very daisy. She's so busy setting up traps. She has to set up all these traps, she has to go and not like a rattlesnake not some fucking final exam fake non-existent these early not reenters traps like actual actual traps. And then she like the other one of her least labour-intensive traps is that Stacey falls asleep in a boat and she like just kicks the boat into the lake. She's like untie is the book, and then Stacy wakes up, and it's like. And then like stomps around in the boat stomps her foot through the bottom of it. And then reach wants to save her. Then it's filling up with water, and she stuck which isn't even what Linda tried know. Linda, just like pushed her she does her out and was like here be scare. Yeah. And then okay, the one with Mark was very dumb. That was my favorite. Stupid because also like she didn't make him come try to help her. No, he just did. Yeah. So she like pretends, she falls down a hill and get stuck on a level. And his like ha ha that'll ski. What what happens is? He goes down to try to help her. And then he gets stuck at a certain point and can't move forward because he's so afraid of heights. He like can't he physically get make himself move. It also was so a non situation though, because it gets resolved to show as she's fine as never endanger, and like someone like helps them out. And then she's like, oh, yeah. I forgot you're afraid of heights. And I was just like, okay. Like also, it's like a twisted by ankle. Wow. I'm really lucky in that. Like. Fine. Yeah. Very weird. And then okay. So the heights thing the snake. She puts the snake in there. And then she boat. Oh, she chops. The snake to try to warn Rachel off because Rachel seems to be like putting two and two together. She's not she's not at all off at all. She doesn't know what's happening at all. No, Linda goes and gets. Oh, yes. So the rattlesnake she like throws to Steve's. Kat, Bonk, whatever. And and then Mr. drama comes any lake chops it in half with a shovel. And then he throws it away and Linda lake goes into fines, the snake digs it out of the truck and puts the two halves of the snake into Rachel's bunk and just throws a butcher knife. In for good measure like from the kitchen at the camp also pay money Reeker out dreaming or did she do? She put the snake pieces in heart shave is that was that a dream. When it gets. It gets not also like are they in a bag? There's this lose like snake pieces. So there's a in the higher sleeping bag. Okay. Yeah. I guess that's the bag that I'm taking of Bros. Oh, like, it seems like Mr. Drummond is there like every time. I was like, hey, what's going on everything? Okay. And they're like, it's fine. Or you could like share even one bit of what's going on. Like something weird is happening with an adult on grab. Maybe also like those guy the biggest bald guy check in with the biggest boldest guy. And also check in with the twenty year olds. I know that they're probably off like humping in the woods or there. So having said, yeah, they're sure boning. They're like do not give shit about these other. That's gone. All the time. They're like, okay. We'll you clear brush and you make a bulletin board. And Michelle I need your help with something in cabin six and nobody coming to find us. Yeah. And then. So so Rachel is like her task is to like, do they even give her? This was this was she starting about this. This is her tasks she wants to be outside. And instead they're like make a twenty year anniversary bowling team blurred. Frame Kenyan summers this. That's right. So she does that. Wait. So why is Teri so touchy about her touching her bag is she? Yeah. She liked takes a sack a paper sack out from Terry's Kat to put those snake pieces in and then Terry's, what are you doing? It was just like just like why aren't you? Will you take things something from my stuff? Yeah. No, it is not in a heart. I don't know why I thought it would be a hardship. Inter blowing up to here. Yeah. After breakfast. They went to work, Linda and Terry Mark headed out start cleaning cabin Steve Jordan and Paul went to check on the boats in the dock Linda to going to work in the rainy day building. Just like a recreation room. Rachel would much rather have been outside even cleaning latrines. But last night she'd been assigned to set up the bulletin board, and the laws say that you wouldn't rather be cleaning latrines he's alive. Inboard thing. Don't lie. Don't lie to us. Third person. Narrated? This is camp silver lakes. Twentieth anniversary. So they wanted Rachel to pick a bunch of photographs taken over the years arranged them on the bulletin board twenty years of summer fun or something like that. Thing to put in there. It's not quoting anyone just twenty years of summer fun or something like that. Twenty two q. Michelle in Tim helped her breakout boxes of photographs from the director's office and put them on one of the tables, then they took the Jeep down to the closest town for some supplies. Yep. Oh, yeah. Boning definitely tell bone. I went to a motel and they've got the whole time. Yeah. This entire barrier twenties. They have the right? Yeah. Abner drama is they're all these fucking Thome teens. Yeah. And not a not a camper. Incite go bone go bone. I for sure what I would be like good support. I will not. I mean, you got a bunch of duds the. The the no one's just a batch of done. No one's good. They're like, oh my God. I can't wait until the other counselors get here. Let me did you know naked coming. I love Nikki. She's not coming in so Friday, though, bent, these are what's about. I just saw the sentence. Finally, Stacey slammed a handful of forks down on the counter. So a whole book is like Jordan, China, China Seidel up to her which is like cute. He's not being weird. He's just flirting. He's flirting. She's more into Paul his client what stunning new Moi spraining over you. My God that is during your that. It is the dream is the dream is the teen dream to have like two boys. And also to like pretend like you don't like care like barely even notice. Like, oh, are they interested in me? I. I was so busy thinking about the camps mysteries that I like. These like non mysteries are so stupid and boring. I was so busy wondering why people are like giving each other glances couldn't even notice the glances. I was receiving. Hey, guys wanted to take a quick break from the show to talk to you about our sponsor for this week's episode better help dot com. These teens in our books are always facing such traumatic issues are you feeling traumatized because your boyfriend might be a ghost. Are you having trouble unpacking? The thoughts that you have about your best friend trying to steal your life. Are you a twin period? What's standing between you and your happiness. It might be. You are your own feelings a roadblock preventing you from achieving your goals. Have you thought about talking to someone, but you're uncertain or unsure of where to start better help dot com? Online counseling is there for you better. Help makes it easy to connect with licensed professional counselors carrying professionals. Specializing in the issues that you wanna talk about depression stress and anxiety trauma grief. Self esteem ghost boyfriend, twin connect with your counselor in a safe and private environment. 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These link really romantic songs, period. That's like, oh, he must like me like, and he was literally like. I was like driving my car like two days ago. And like remember the songs, and I was like, oh, my God that guy I think it was in love with me. It was first of all it was like foods Russian where angels bid at your head. You know that? LV? Yeah. Yeah. That one and I would walk five hundred miles like all these songs that were like. I love you. Oh god. Call him to tell him. I just know realized when I read lie twenty six this guy who shall remain nameless in his early forties. Made me a mix CD of different like like classic. Like, all Americans are great American songbook standards and upon receiving it. I was like, oh it's on. Oh, we're boning. We boned nice knew I knew can. But like we were we'd already made out to one of the songs, but I was like a whole CD of them. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's definite like, especially because you already made out to one of them. Yeah. Because then you're like, oh, yeah. Now should someone in his early forties. Have been making a CD. Not now. Absolutely not. No. Did he insists on having sex without a condom? Yes. He did. Really? Like, his penis was too big. No because he sucks too wide wide. No condom could fit him myself assume with low enough that I said gas that was fine been there. It doesn't that suck. When you like don't you're just like, oh, I have to be cool and go with it. But now is guy that like was like, you know, I just absolutely refuse to wear condoms. Here's the thing. I've done it. I've been there I've had sex unprotected. Sure. If you're in the heat of the moment happens happened. No, however. But if if someone's like, you put on a condom tried, and I was like we need to use a condom. And then we got a condom, and it was not working out. Oh, no. Why did it just fall off? It like like a pair of Janko. Say like a took him out of the moment because he was like, but then it turned out. I was like some kind of side peace and now he's married to the girl. He was actually seeing really. Yeah. Anyway. I found out recently about recently. And I don't know why. I'm so dumb that. There is a fetish of guys that like want to impregnate. I mean, there's a fetish forever. You know, why I'm surprised either kind of fucked up that's super psychotic like you wanna control you want to like keep them in your you want to plant your flag. Yeah. Fuck you. Sure if yuck, yuck. Yucky yucky. Here's what I say about that yucky. Yacky, yacky. Okay. Okay. Uh-huh. With the guy. Let's say it's a first day and like just the chemistry's off the rails. And even if you're not normally like, I'm gonna have sex on the first date type person. Like, you're doing it in the heat of the MO in the heat of the mall. And then he's like oh preview knew all my. I I would push him away for me. Physically him from me as a note from me. Hard pass. Coca good knowing what you're saying for business. Shuttered. To like. But yeah, daddy daddy. Then the money now. Like the chapel. Marry marry me that would be so funny. He's like you wanna put a baby, and you and you're like, yeah. I don't ring. Let's do it the fall in chapel chapel. The chapel. He's like, oh, that's not my fetish. Like well. It's fucking. Marriage. I believe that's haddish literally divorcing not too long after divorcing doing. Yeah. So that you can get married at all. Wedding fetish. Yeah, I'm sure you just role play that that'd be too. To really getting married. That'd be fun. We'll if you wanted to do it like over and over again with different people. Community of people who have a like specifically a wedding fetish throw yourself, a wedding, and you have honeymoon sex. But you're not actually getting married, and then you're just partways. That's fun. That's sandals resort. Yeah. That's fun. That's fun. Like, you the craziest first date ever. Yeah. You say goodbye new never see them again. Okay. Is this new life honeymoon fire app is our app where we do this thing where you just get to you get to do a fake like wedding like whirlwind wedding honeymoon experience with someone. Yeah. And then there's a whole cottage industry for it. What is caught industry? It's like super tiny. Specialty then. Yeah, I agree. I think that people would do it. I think that's what I would do. I would try it done. You know, if you're single try it pretty and instant little fetish. Yeah. Where it's like, you're really turned on by honeymoon sects. I think that there's like also I think there's a group of people that would be like why not this already? How could it not? There's no way I've had that originally look app for. Person to marry four time. I'm just going to go ahead and type in honeymoon fetish. Desperate to get married. Now. There's a dating site for that to fetish fantasy honeymoon bonded kit. No, I don't mean bonded moon. That's more Spanish. Lucks fetish honeymoon bed. Spreader? Health in personal care, a fetish honeymoon gagged utopias story archive that's like fan like erotica right honeymoon bondage kit. S- adults only I'm I'm talking just like straight playing straight honeymoon set. I know I'm trying Lindsey I can't find it. Why aren't you? Try hard. The fetish fantasy ball pipedream products. Oh, what the F nothing against bonded you. I'm just talking about. Wife videos. Yeah. That's right. Goddess honeymoon foot worship, this isn't the same thing. We're looking for moon fetish easy. Hot porn dot com. Well, this is very porn porn easy. Hot porn honeymoon sex. Weddings fetish? Just like when you first marking string search. What is this? I mean, I've hit a porn site. Just threw everyone. It's terrifying. Police. Oh in Paris in you, guys. I can't believe people watch this have you listened wedding dress fuck while husband films. Yeah. Is a sad. Let me see let me see. Wait. It's like a cardigan. Wait, hold on any closer. It's like she found an old Victorian dolls drifts. This is not a wedding dress this early is. It is like homemade porn. You know when you get. It's here's the thing of porn. I think amateur porn to me seems more seems less in my. I dunno pro porn seems kind of weird to me. Yeah. In my experience of trying to enjoy porn. I will say that amateur porn appealed to me more than. Yeah. Professional corn? Have you listened to that new Sears? I just finished the Stott her dress looks like, you know, when you get like those baby dolls new take off their clothes in there wearing a little white dry coat petticoat. She's wearing like that. Yeah. She's literally cardigan Laura Ingalls wilder prairie dress. We why me. Also, their houses too messy. This is not a honeymoon. Yeah. These people are not doing she's just wiring, and it's not even like pure white. It's like a cream colored prairie Durant. There's there's a sharp messy living in the preview like gifting. There's a shot where he is like laying on the ground with interaction and she's standing above him. She's standing above him with our legs like straddling where his crotch would be. And I'm just picturing her going into a split landing. Speeding. That'd be so no, it'd be so impressive. Like her interest is she's also like just got. Not so. Her hair is just like down in normal and she's wearing wire frame glass. Good. I not impressive. No, it's not. And there are too many empty cans on their coffee. Too many to MD cans, but have you listened to the new it's an audible limited series? And it's about. Fuck who's the guy that wrote? So you were publicly shamed. I don't know. But I know what you're talking about. Okay. Someone screaming about this in their car. Okay. So you were publicly shamed. By Jon Ronson. So he just did. He does a lot of journalism stuff that is kind of delves into the more like CD kind of world and stuff. That's kind of controversial fringe news. Just did the story where he this porn actress. Found out. It's it's weird story. So she finds out that her one of her co stars in this porn that she's been booked at this video that she's been booked to work has done gay porn and she like pulls out of the project. And it's like I don't wanna do. It's weird. It's kind of like judgy and weird. And then she blasts this guy on Twitter, and is like just so you guys know worked in gay porn for other women in the industry don't work with him or whatever something something like that. What a bit. Yeah. Then like another porn star tweets at her and has like, hey, don't fucking do that. Like, that's not cool. You shouldn't be doing that. And then the woman who. The original Twitter commit suicide by hanging herself at a park and her husband is claiming it's because of the bullying that caused her to one healer sell instigated bullying, and then it's this whole thing of like everyone in the porn community as soon as she dies. They're like, oh, no. He killed her. What? Yes. This whole thing where he's going through the husband killed because like there. Yeah. This as a motive. So it's kind of like, it's not so much of alike. It's just a really interesting exploration of this world of like, the professional porn industry and kind of like, you learn more about every single one of the players kind of in there, and you kind of empathize with everybody a little bit more as you listen to it. He's really good. I really really liked him. Let me see what it's called because I did not. They called. Let's see Jon Ronson porn podcast to think he has a best friend named John Ronson. Ron johnson. Ron johnson. John Ron Johnson. Johnson August aims last days of August. That's what it's called August. But it just like it's so interesting like hearing just the whole that whole world. It's real it's really interesting, and he's really good. He is a Welsh. Journalist, and he he's known for like having done a lot of projects like this. It's really cool. I recommend it. I I read an article I think when that book came out about so you're probably Chamdia an interview with him. Probably. Yeah. Very the fifteen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Silent problem now. Yeah. I wanna read I want more of his stuff because he he covers a lot. He does a lot of nonfiction writing. You know, what has been going on the internet around the internet lately? And I wonder if you and I have the same idea about this. I think we've touched on this in general, which is inspiration porn. I hate it. Yeah. Same. So there's a video and right now, that's like circling, and it is a woman. Singing, I will always love you have you seen it. No, they're like this is blind. And she's never gone to school, and she was in the Philippines, but she can sing. And then it's her singing. I will always love you. And I'm lying. That's called singing. I'm like, none of those things preclude anybody from singing like oh good for her straight Zinger. But everyone's like why she's not like Helen Keller learning. I would love you just rubbing so the wrong way. And everyone's like, I mean, she's poor and being very link women come talented when you're impure world. Bring your and all. Very. Talked about that thing where it was like the guy. The giving that woman that lick recently widowed woman money at the gas station. Or I'm just like who why are you filming this? I'd like for that kind of thing. I'm torn right? Like three quarters of me is like why are you filming it? And then another part of me is like because some people need to see those good in the world. Yeah. And I'm genuinely touched. I think all they needed to do with say something like like where with the church group, and we come out here everyone's day. And we just like film ourselves doing good ax. And here's one of them as opposed to like. Wow. Can you believe this was caught on camera? Yeah. Yeah. I can't because somebody turned on their phone. There's also like don't act like it. Some like crazy thing you witnessed. Yeah. Also, there's like this. And this usually tends to be like people quote like being. I'm gonna say quote nice to people with disabilities. And I'm like, no difference between empathy and pity. Yeah. Some land this autistic Guida, prom, aren't I grade? Yeah. Or like, I remember there is this video that my ask them ask them to promise yourself doing it on the internet. And also like like if you ask someone to prom like are do they know that you're just going as friends are you like leading them on like what like are? You dating this person? Like, what is the it's one thing if you're like, hey, I don't have a date. Yeah. Do you wanna go as my friend? Yeah. Exactly. Right. And then if I'm hearing about it, I better not have originated with you. Then you were doing it for the attention. Yeah. And you suck exactly that's worse than not going with him. There was this video that my boss made me watch back when I was in a Terni, and he was like crying. And his office watching it. Gotta do. He's a what? Video and instead of a computer screen he had a big twenty eight. So you know, sure there was also like massage Terry's a very important. One of the client. Cheers, wasn't massage. Oh, no. He's a and watch this video. So I go in and I'm like not saying in the massage chair. I let you know. I've never sat them saucer. Good you go girl. Thank you. In the video is this kid letting another kid with I want say it was C P serbo palsy how win like throwing a wrestling match to let this kid win. And I to me I was like there's two things going on here. I to me it made me feel really wrong inside. Because I was like the fact that you're like, wow. Look at this like person like like just letting this poor like kid. It's like, no, have empathy and compassion not pity like to me that kid is on the team. He probably wants to be treated. It was very it was very weird. And I didn't I was just like, I don't I don't see that. As like, oh, I'm being empathetic. It's I'm like to me that kind of video has the same feel as those like dodo videos of a person like adopting a dog. And I'm like, but that's a person. That's not a so like person, that's like on the same level as you. That's like. I agree. Yeah. It to me. It was like gross. Whereas like a video about adopting a dog. It's like, oh, well, the dog is a dog, and you're a human different the power dynamic. Yeah. Like, yeah. The other way just like throwing a match seems almost like the worst or a form of really gross able ISM. Yeah. Time maybe kid to win. I mean, but it's. But the giant everybody getting here's the thing. That's the thing. If you're going to throw the match to give this kid, and I don't think maybe he didn't have C P. He had I think it was something else. But. If let's say, I if that really happy I'm glad, but it's been fucking Fillon. It that's disgusting to me to film that and be like look at how like because that defeats the fucking purpose of throwing the match. Also, who's the star in the film, then hits the kid that stowing the match. It's like all the movies where it's like, oh, this white person is. So he's not racists. It definitely is not it's kind of like this ablest savior. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's why it's gross. Let's say you're. Yeah. I look at your age. Cricket plex. If you're listening to this. And you're like, oh, man. I like those videos, you guys are being really bitchy about it. Sorry. But. This is my opinion. I feel very I really like thinking that this is out in the world. And like I said if those people were just like super front like here's why we're filming we go out everyone saying we perform good acts, and we feel so that we can like spread the word like perform good acts yourself, LA LA feels great. And then you meet people or whatever. But don't act like happen to have been caught on camera. Because no you turned on the camera. Also like there was all this planning that went turning on the camera. So so it's always it's always context, if you're giving honest context great. But if you're making yourself, the star of an inspirational story where you do something so great that makes you the savior of something, then it's gross. Then you're not doing the right reasons. I don't you're chilling. Then write a movie about it. Yeah. And then I can watch the story and not feel like. Gross. Like, I'm being used. I feeling are being used. Also, it's kind of like you're just trying to be the fucking town hero. Because you think that this person needs saving, I think that's the whole thing. It's like you think oh they need saving an I'm the one to save them. Yeah. It's just really. Yuk wing. Everyone's complaint about green book is that it's about the white, dude. Not the black do right? And I'm tired of movies about people like figuring out that they're racist. I'm like, yeah. Have you seen all those Natalie Walker? No, Joe snow. Oh my God. They're so great. So skirl Natalie Walker you can find her on Twitter and walks and she's been doing the series since like twenty fifteen twenty sixteen where she performs a just like a short short clip of a movie stereotype. So the very first one is is her playing British woman in a film, who's just like odd by her man. Just like you. Extrordinary? Yep. It. She just keeps adding to it. So there's there's like Boston townie sees her ex boyfriend back in town and tell him like he's not better than her. And then the flip side is like up tight city girlfriend goes back to Boston with her boyfriend and proves to him that like she can kick it with the guys manic pixie dream girl or super dark tragic girl who suicide gives your life, meaning just all these like female stereotypes, like the the county girlfriend who is there just to get in the way of the main protagonist relationship in rom com there so so so funny and one of them is her playing the wife of a white savior. Racism nice. It's so good. So look look our out offer, very funny. Yeah. Everyone in this book is white. Everyone in all the books are one. And all the books are white. Oh, that reminds me that Christopher pike article that if you send us he is very cool. So can you just ignore? He's like I put a few minority characters in my books, and it wasn't at my publishers urging it was at mine, and I felt like super proud of myself for it. But then I just sort of let it drop in. That's on me, and I should have done better. And it was like for hit on is how you address it. That is how you apologize. That is how you acknowledged it instead of like some bullshit excuse excuse. He wasn't making any excuses respected. Extra pike ten at a ton. Yeah. Great guy. And we were right about him. Being kind of sick kid does mine was like just taken out of the game for three months out of the year because he was allergic to olive tree pollen, man and. I heard what the other things we write about the meditation stuff meditation stuff that was kind of a given. What we didn't know is that he was in a terrible car accident at the end of the ninety s why he stopped writing. I did not know that. I did neither man, but sucks that sucks inside. He's okay. I'm glad he's ok to. Okay. So I fell asleep reading this book. An I did not realize do you wanna know what I thought happened at the end. Yes. That Linda is Linda the killer or the Taffer went to the scarier. So the scare is Linda, and I just thought that Linda was like my brother, and then everyone's like go away. And then she just went away. I didn't know that. She lied got out of gun and Mike kill. Gonna kill gone that isn't loaded and is just trying to scare everyone even more weight. Really? Yeah. She doesn't drink kill anybody. Now, she wasn't going to kill us. She points at him. So then what happens? She gets taken away gets taken out and yet taken away. Rachel throws. She throws a flashlight at her, but misses and Laura Linda gets distracted by it. And let's the gun down. And then Mr. Drummond comes kind of out of nowhere and takes it from her. Oh, his strong, bald hands. Okay. I love a man with strong, bald hands. L officia. I love a man with strong L epecial hands just hands. Just the hand. Don't be gross Kelly. Joke. I'm being sarcastic. We don't I just don't want to. I had a bad dream the other night that somebody was taking clips of the show. Out of context and posting them on Twitter to make me look bad. So it was like you to me are racist. Like more like accessed clips of using white power. Okay. But of context, and yes, I dressed in black face as a teenager. But that's not mean in those photos, but yes, I did too. Those photos proof the inclusion of that photo on my page, but some mistaken also do want to see me moonwalk. Because I still can. Such an idiot. What are what are your eighty eight? What an eighty that is so desperately everyone in office in Virginia dressed in black face at one point or another. I buy that adds up. It adds up. Sorry, virginia. Sorry. Okay. So she like screams along gets the gun taken away from her Rachel just like realize, oh, she finds a letter from Johnny to Linda in Linda's bag allies is and somehow at that exact moment windows, like scaring shit out of everyone. Do they have a weird last name that he would make fun of them for started within and wasn't nut sack? Oh, yeah. It starts. But it wasn't really that. The name itself was weird. It was just that they turned it into nerd, but it was nut sack. Not suck. But that's not weird ignored. Little Johnny nuts that. That's definitely Johnny Appleseed porn. Spreading his seat all over. He's got that pregnancy. America. Cross your rolling hill manifest destiny. Superior from like. Eighteen hundred manifest destiny or manifesting children. Johny nut second. The story of Judy. Phillies coulda done better work on that title. But. What get it out the door. Get it made. Do the Jimmy Buffett philosophy of first drafts? Best route. What was his last name? It was it was buffet buffet. Not sack buffet, Johnny Denard, Danner d-. Oh denard. I call them. Johnny goad to nerd 'cause NAR. Johnny nartz. Wolf man's got not as and nut sec and Johnny apple marts. Picturing his ball like apple. Healy comes Johnny apple. Swing low sweet chariot this. Vaco food. Just then I thought I was so I was seeing the tuned to hear cotton tail Johnny apple. It was a song about Johnny Appleseed. When I started. Peter cotton tail. Johnny apple nerds. America has apple. Going to. Don't you get it? Johnny. Very sure enjoyed. Just hanging out of him. But like Brown sack full about let's seeds. In order to keep playing. Everybody on that. Little little Fultz. Good that's gone. Man classic. Well, and that's can't fear. Fear. I mean, it really is. There's like there's. Left. It's like traps hat is it traps real trap real traps happen. And then she just gets out a gun in his like, my brother was the one who died two books that we read that were nothing nothing. Like, oh, my sibling died, I'm like, I'm here to avenge their deaths. Yep. To be fair. I think the stakes were a lot higher in lights out. Someone does die by or wheel. Oh, yeah. That's a gruesome Desam. And we said that's like maybe one of the most gruesome screws may be. But this is nothing. I was shocked when it ended. I was like oh, MRs Ellis. Mrs MRs MRs she married you bring shame. Dear husband. Your husband wants his last name back. Oh, she does. She does live in New York state with her husband and her son. Yep. Boring. So it wasn't really like badly written personnel. Wasn't it wasn't. It was just boring. I think I was thinking about this while I read it, this is why Christopher pike is my favorite is. Because he has. His stories are the most character. I don't want to say character-driven because the there's a heavy plot. The characters I care about so much more. I don't know who these people are neither I like hangers characters. I know who they are and things happen. And there is and they're really interesting. Yeah. I don't know who these people are. The in white and teens white teens and they're boring. Yeah. Boring. I don't know what any of their interests are. I don't actually know what they're like they all sound the same. Yes. No one's voice is different from another's. I. Being for Paul like Jordan Pauley, the the difference between Jordan, I'm Paul Jordan, Paul Mark. And Steve two. Who cares? They're all the same. Yeah. Same with all of the girls. Yeah. Rachel doesn't sound any different from Stacey Linda or Terry. No, aka Theresa, aka Terrassa. So yeah, that's my criticism. That's camp fear. I'd say you could skip this one very skillful. If you guys are reading along with us next week, we are reading last vampire six. For. Oh, yeah. One. I jumped the gun already read it. I just checked it on open library sorry guys one site. Reading up Senate. You can check it out. You can't have fine. It's the copy I've had since it was released. That's cool. I can't wait to see how it 'cause member at the end of five. I was like what happens. I can't wait. I can't wait to read the other thirst. Yeah. Yeah. Because neither of us have read them right because they were modern. Yeah. Cool. Do you want to listen to some voicemail? Yes. But Stuart where's the thing? It's over by. You just kidding? It's by me. And all so. Johnny apple. All right. This first one is addressed to Dan creek, I dream creed. I remember what you little ask was for stories what awkward live stories teen relation general all of them. But I am stuckey from my offered year. So off the ladder. What might be the most telling about that my life is that I played the clarinet and thought of two different items clothing with ten other not for good with the shade Sebit designed purpose Citra. So I'd tear brighten the on green and black sweater piece to green. Oh, my God with green somehow flying under the radar socially cute. Despite the undiagnosed garnish it was probably clarinet that caused the most trouble in my adult scence clean it case at a loose class. So fly open and clarinet pieces flying rolling like in a crowded hallway or on a school bus. Pieces rolling around chasing them like some ridiculous much brother bit. The pinnacle performance in my mind, though, was this one time my brother, and I decided to perform at my church is crooked Trinite, really good euphonium, so lower breath instrument, and I my clarinet, and it was the mid two thousand sort to keep the topic where we decided to for four a brass high would ring duet of Simon and Garfunkel, Sarah styling. Into became noticed. But imagine that the tooted Graham was one of general long and appreciation. Anyway, lesson here is there many ways to humiliate yourself teen side of romance. And the clarinet is responsible for a half. Creepy so cute favor. Caller other. Other. Silence on woodwinds. When you when you said, you were keeping it a relevant or topical or something. I believed you. And really good. Really good. This is dressed to Kellyanne. Katie. Katie. Hey, tell any case I just listened to your latest episode and really resonated with me when you talk about the cycle of people being into each other, especially as like a parent or family members to someone in high school. Middle school. There was this one girl who was a very cool very mean. Remember this time with my friends, and I were laughing at the corner as the English room and someone laughs funny. They have the I don't remember. What was that this cool like probably having an orgasm? Think anyone had ever sent? Fuck that girl anyway, editor completely. And her older sister was in the department with me and we play together. She was really cool. She's native we there. And she pulled me their mother was pretty crazy. She would do things like move all of their furniture out of their house in the middle of the night to new purpose that she in cotton without them knowing. Empty house. So very unwell. And she would just be. So mean, she she got all her anger on the on the girl who is in my class three case the older daughter. She was fine with a young son. She was okay with that middle daughter. She just. Oh, oh, heinous person to us never know. And even knowing that when I finally went into her as an adult again. No. I messed up. I was trying to keep my zone awake. And then it stopped the message. I'm sorry. It's okay. You're going to get there. Okay. It's okay. But what happens when he meets her as an adult there. Whether very unwell three case older daughter. She was fine with a young son. She was okay, right. That middle daughter. She just unleashed all her crazy venom on and that's why she was such a heinous person to us and even knowing that when I finally went into her as an adult again out in the real world with this knowledge from her sister that she was more victims than bully. I listen in the face. Around and did not interact with her at all for you. Just had too much of a negative Pak. Can't. I guess is awesome. Thank you. US by you rock. Thank you for calling. I mean, good thing. You didn't go up to her. 'cause like what if you did? And then you're just like, you know, your mom hated. Or what if she'd been mean to you again legs -actly, then what are you gonna do? And then then you're gonna say your mom, then you I mean, regardless of what happened you would have to end the interaction telling her that her mom bucking hated her and let you kind of stranger you didn't know that. Yeah. That's and now you just know that you have that power forever. You do. Honestly, I'm you took the high road, which I think I agree is the highest road, which is to grievances on a podcast. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. It would be crazy. If on some of these stories somebody's listening to them me. Oh my God. Like mom. Mom. It's like, oh my God. I moved all over a nicer out of the apartment. I don't think you were obligated to talk to her rude to her just doing or mean even. Yeah. You did. There is line. You did the right would be hilarious. If she was like trying to address you and you just pretending. But I mean, if somebody's mean to you, you're not obligated to talk to them speak their stories two hundred do two more since we have so. Yeah. Let's do to moral aide, Kellyanne Kate. Hi. So I was listening to voice mails in your most recent episode. Cost was Caesar. Very most viscerally awkward memory of being a birthday party. So now I going to that. Shrink them floor list. So first off I was maybe ten or twelve I was friends with like a slightly older neighbor thought he was the coolest she invited me to a birthday party. I didn't know anyone there but hers so that was fun. No. And I little awkwardness appetizers the presence. So I was a kid. I didn't really know what like normal twin girls like the other presence for like makeup and clothes and stuff. Mine. Wasn't action figure of the penguin for. Tombs came with tiny rocket shooting penguin. Looking tight data. We it was now you'd be very. Anyway, so later on at the party, it's some ho came out that I was in martial arts classes, oh man, and I wanted to impress these older cooler girls. So I did kick. I heard screaming. I two girls. My and Yankee though, debris year. I don't really remember any of the rest of the party temporarily died. Oh. Anyway, turns out my neighbor really wants to coolest 'cause she continued to be friends with me and hang out with me. After that. We'll see thought you were getting killed. Podcast. Good. Mazed zing. Holy shit. What a ride. I. I believe that. I did not see that coming. That's crazy. Then you see this kid at my school, and my high school who like he was very strange. He's still like he's you think of nice car like how how high is your speedometer go what? And then he like was really into martial arts. And he'd be like I'm gonna show you a crescent kick, and he would just do crescent kicks all day. Yeah. I had a you don't you're like, I have this thing that doing. Yeah. I think is very cool. I want other people to see that. I'm doing it. And think that I'm cool. Yeah. And I can't think of a way to bring it up naturally because it exists barring like. I'm just going to like shove it in there. He just like, and he would do it and say. Question kick kick. Very very funny. This one is a dressed to Lindy Kelly. To work Google translate. The hey Kelly. This is Sadie. I see a huge fan of your podcast easy to become a hate tree. Hook that you still listen to NPR because it's like a year later. I was in middle school in the bathroom, ping. You know as you do. I what. And turn the lights off. And my instant reaction was lifting my feet off the ground because. Yeah, just do that in that summer. I sat through the sleep. Honey, I shrunk the kids. Honey, I shrunk the audience. Nice touches. Could maybe with my needed that. It was an instant reaction and the girls in the bathroom started playing. What are you married? On the second. I could feel like an imminent. Week for bloody Marys sales. I can't. And the first counters and think we just have to be saying Desi McCartney three times in a row. So I guess if you're ever in that situation. You see that? And hopefully, not get murdered a former evil. Guys. What you're doing? Joe play Bloody Mary. You know, right. Good. Funny. But. News totally Jesse McCartney's. Mccartney. Laugh sadie. I love your laugh too. It's very contagious. Very contagious. Thank you so much for calling you guys saying so sorry, it is taking so long to get voicemails. I know the time we never had the time left. But now, we do we do we're saying that. These were from June of last year. Wow. Twenty so sorry that it's taken us. So long. You're just. I know you might not listen anymore. Try. That's a good reason to stainless and tweeted us if we've played your voicemail, and you still listen. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm trying to find our phone number. 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